GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

mattn1977 wrote:Yeah I think UFC 137 is still decent, Penn v Diaz is a strong enough fight to be a main event. I just wish they didn't like each other so much, I love a fight where there is a bit of needle. I can't see anyone baeting GSP for a while though (Condit and Diaz included), no-one in the division can deal with his take downs, and he doesn't take enough risks to get subbed (plus he's very physicaly strong and difficult to manouvre). Their only chance is a serra-esque KO, and that's a long shot.

Again, GSP is an elite FIGHTER and he puts everything together brilliantly. His WRESTLING on it's own though, is not special and not of an elite level.

I thought GSP wasn't a fighter

Anyway, I don't think overall GSP is a better wrestler as the likes of Kos, Askren and Sonnen because his control isn't as good as there's but for me he has the best take downs in the game. Him or Phil Davis. He has never faced anyone he couldn't take down and has an incredible success rate on take downs. His take down defense is also excellent, possibly the best in the game.

Again, GSP is an elite FIGHTER and he puts everything together brilliantly. His WRESTLING on it's own though, is not special and not of an elite level.

I thought GSP wasn't a fighter

Anyway, I don't think overall GSP is a better wrestler as the likes of Kos, Askren and Sonnen because his control isn't as good as there's but for me he has the best take downs in the game. Him or Phil Davis. He has never faced anyone he couldn't take down and has an incredible success rate on take downs. His take down defense is also excellent, possibly the best in the game.

Couldn't take down Kos second time around when Kos prepared for the fight wrestling-wise. The only good wrestler he's faced in their prime is Fitch(Sean Sherk was a juiced LW and Hughes was done when GSP managed to get him down), and like I said, the takedowns were as a result of the stand-up. Plus Greco guys tend to have notoriously bad takedown defence, plus Fitch isn't in the same league as Kos, Askren, Sonnen et al. I'd like to see how he'd fair trying to take down Rumble in the manner Kos did, purely because Rumble is so big and strong and has good TDD. And when Askren comes over you can be certain he wouldn't be trying to take him down.

Sonnen has the best takedowns in the game right now of the top fighters, Askren has the best overall. GSP has a very good double leg, but overall his takedowns aren't on the same level as the others because he's not as versatile and doesn't have the technique.

And Aldo has the best TDD defence. His TDD comes close to rivalling BJ's back before BJ stopped bothering.

Again, GSP is an elite FIGHTER and he puts everything together brilliantly. His WRESTLING on it's own though, is not special and not of an elite level.

I thought GSP wasn't a fighter

Anyway, I don't think overall GSP is a better wrestler as the likes of Kos, Askren and Sonnen because his control isn't as good as there's but for me he has the best take downs in the game. Him or Phil Davis. He has never faced anyone he couldn't take down and has an incredible success rate on take downs. His take down defense is also excellent, possibly the best in the game.

Couldn't take down Kos second time around when Kos prepared for the fight wrestling-wise. The only good wrestler he's faced in their prime is Fitch(Sean Sherk was a juiced LW and Hughes was done when GSP managed to get him down), and like I said, the takedowns were as a result of the stand-up. Plus Greco guys tend to have notoriously bad takedown defence, plus Fitch isn't in the same league as Kos, Askren, Sonnen et al. I'd like to see how he'd fair trying to take down Rumble in the manner Kos did, purely because Rumble is so big and strong and has good TDD. And when Askren comes over you can be certain he wouldn't be trying to take him down.

Sonnen has the best takedowns in the game right now of the top fighters, Askren has the best overall. GSP has a very good double leg, but overall his takedowns aren't on the same level as the others because he's not as versatile and doesn't have the technique.

And Aldo has the best TDD defence. His TDD comes close to rivalling BJ's back before BJ stopped bothering.

I was trying to be nice. He's an athlete.

He did take Kos down in the second fight though. It was only once or twice but I'm sure he took him down.

I don't think Johnson's take down defence is that good, he was taken down by fat journeyman LW Rich Clementi. Johnson just likes fighting guys half his size like Yoshida.

Sonnen and Askren's wrestling are the best in the business, but don't you think Davis is up there with them in terms of take downs?

Aldo has sensational take down defence as well, but GSP has stopped take downs from better wrestlers.

He has beaten really tough competition, Stann, Gustaffson, Boetsch and Nog are no joke. He has taken down everyone he has ever faced and has never been put on his back. Tremendous wrestler who is still very young in this sport and is quite easily improving his skills.

Nog has good takedown defense, and had trained with Phil Davis in the past, so not at all suprising to see a few stuffed double legs in the 1st round. Once Davis started shooting a single leg he took Nog down every single time.

How is a wrestler takedowns getting stuffed a couple of times a suitable standard in asseing how good he is?? GSP, Koscheck, Bones, Cain all get their takedowns stuffed from time to time aswell. Who has a Takedown success rate of 100%?? No one!!

Ofcourse he needs to continue to improve his standup, but its not like he was getting lit up by Lil Nog in 1st round which was all standup. Infact i think 2 judges gave him that round as did i, because of great kicks he has and used.

He beats the likes of Shogun, Forrest, Mousasi right now quite easily.

Which Shogun? The one that fought Jones? Yeah he'd beat him easily within 2 rounds. As would any top LHW. But the Shogun that fought Machida both times and seemed to have returned against Forrest? Davis would get beat up by that Shogun at this point in his career.

Any Shogun would have problems with someone as good a wrestler as Davis, and as athletic and with same cardio. He'll wear him out. And i dont think Shogun would have anything to counteract this being Davis type of fight of just wrestling and grappling with Davis on top.

Shogun's far better on the ground than Davis and he's a much better striker, and much harder hitter than anyone Davis has faced thus far. Little Nog jacked Davis's jaw a few times, Shogun would do worse. Plus Shogun is a front foot fighter, Davis hasn't faced anyone like that yet. Shogun at his best would beat Davis. Davis has a lot of potential but he's not close to being ready for those top guys yet. His injury is a blessing because it saved him from an absolute schooling from Machida.

Doesnt matter who is better on the ground, Davis is much better wrestler and Shogun is not the hardest to takedown, Davis will be on top, Shogun wont end the fight off his back, and if he gets up he can be taken down again, likewise Forrest and Mousasi.

Yeah, I would give Machida a better chance than those 3 guys, at beating Davis as he has better takedown defense than them. But Davis wrestling is good enough to takedown anyone in Division, excluding King Mo and possibly Bones would be really tough to take down aswell.

Bones would be easy for Davis to take down. Not even a competition there. Mo and Rashad would be the toughest.

Davis would be on top until Shogun swept him. Shogun is more than capable of finishing off his back. He's done it before. He's got great leglocks from a bottom position and Davis is a bit sloppy with his legs when he's trying to work position.

Doesn't necessarily go to the ground though. Shogun is more than capable of knocking Davis out.

Shouguns flaw is he isnt physical enough, when he was younger and more mobile he would try the jumping kicks and knees we see Bones dishing out today. He is less mobile now and his coaches say he cuts from 220 and its hard for him (when discussing him going to 185 in an inverview) I reckon he needs to get in better shame if in honest.

I can see Davis absolutly smothering him on the ground and Shogun gassing. Wouldnt write off a Shogun KO but Shogun on the back foot isnt half as effective and Davis would probabally put him there.

As a Shogun fan Davis would be the guy id pick last as his next opponent. I would back Davis to be able to smother and GSP the life out of a good few of the less physical smaller 205ers.

For Shogun to fight off the back foot he'll need to be backed up with strikes. Davis is never going to outstrike Shogun. Shogun's been taken down a lot in the past and almost exclusively from the clinch. You rarely see him shot on. Davis is a shooter rather than a clincher. Shooting on Shogun is a good way to get a knee in the mouth.

He has beaten really tough competition, Stann, Gustaffson, Boetsch and Nog are no joke. He has taken down everyone he has ever faced and has never been put on his back. Tremendous wrestler who is still very young in this sport and is quite easily improving his skills.

Nog has good takedown defense, and had trained with Phil Davis in the past, so not at all suprising to see a few stuffed double legs in the 1st round. Once Davis started shooting a single leg he took Nog down every single time.

How is a wrestler takedowns getting stuffed a couple of times a suitable standard in asseing how good he is?? GSP, Koscheck, Bones, Cain all get their takedowns stuffed from time to time aswell. Who has a Takedown success rate of 100%?? No one!!

Ofcourse he needs to continue to improve his standup, but its not like he was getting lit up by Lil Nog in 1st round which was all standup. Infact i think 2 judges gave him that round as did i, because of great kicks he has and used.

He beats the likes of Shogun, Forrest, Mousasi right now quite easily.

I've seen your GIF mate, but more importantly I've seen the fight, which means I've also seen a huge Davis struggle to take down a guy pretty much half his size. Maybe he just had an off night, because I must admit he's impressed me in every other outing, especially the one handed kimura against a reknowned wrestler in Boetsch. No doubt about it though, the Nog fight was hugely disappointing considering his hype.

Mousasi and Shogun would kill him at this stage, he's still very very green in the standup, they're both phenoms. He wouldn't get a chance to take them down. Forrest would not be a 'quite easy' fight either, shows how much you bum the guy if you think he would run through three former LHW champs 'quite easy', in a few fights time maybe, but now? Not a chance.

I don't get the Mousasi is a phenom statement,fair enough he has a couple of good MW's on his record,like Jacare and Lombard,though lombard needs to be tested against top MW's before we can tell if he is still going to be a wrecking ball at that level and we have seen Jacare still look good,but to be fair he hasn't exactly shone against Strikeforce's top MW's.(that's not a knock on Strikeforce's MW's,Kennedy,Rockhold and jacare belong in the UFC)

At LHW,his record for me is less impressive than Davis's.

Mousasi is 5-1-1,with his best wins coming against Babalu and Soko,and the rest are wins over guys that are hardly worth mentioning,while Davis is 9-0,with good wins against Stann,Gustaffson,Boetsch and Lil Nog,fair enough Stann and Boetsch are now MW's,but Lil Nog and Gustaffson IMO are better wins than Soko and Babalu.

I personally would easily back Davis to beat Mousasi,especially after watching how badly Mousasi struggled and got wrestle fucked for 25 mins,by a good wrestler,but one who was completely gassed after 5 mins.Then watching Jardine(who should of lost that fight)sneak a draw because he could easily take Mousasi down when ever he got into trouble on his feet.

Davis has a great wrestling background,his stand up obviously needs improvement,but where it is now,is far from poor.I think he has the range and speed to do well in the stand up against Mousasi,but most importantly,he could take Mousasi down when ever and how ever he wanted,and once down,unlike Mo,he has a gas tank and he isn't only a threat by wrestle fucking him,he has a very dangerous submission game,something that separates him from alot of the other top wrestlers that have got into this game.

I'm firmly on the Davis bandwagon,I don't think he is ready for your Bones,Machida's,Evans and Shoguns just yet,he's got some work to do on improving his punching(his Kicks are pretty good already)and being able to smoothly transition from his striking game to his bread and butter ground game.He's not far off now,but give him 2-3 more fights and I think he will be comfortable being mention in that kind of company.

If I was managing his career,I would like him to get someone like Forrest,Janitor,franklin or Bader next,then if successful move up to your Rampage,Shogun/Hendo loser level or if Mousasi signs for ZUFFA,be his first fight in the UFC,then,if successful,move into a #1 contenders fight or maybe a Title shot..

also Davis didn't dwarf lil Nog,he's obviously alot more shredded and has a freaky physique,but he and Nog are both 6'2 and both cut to get to 205.

payneNglory1 wrote:I don't get the Mousasi is a phenom statement,fair enough he has a couple of good MW's on his record,like Jacare and Lombard,though lombard needs to be tested against top MW's before we can tell if he is still going to be a wrecking ball at that level and we have seen Jacare still look good,but to be fair he hasn't exactly shone against Strikeforce's top MW's.(that's not a knock on Strikeforce's MW's,Kennedy,Rockhold and jacare belong in the UFC)

At LHW,his record for me is less impressive than Davis's.

Mousasi is 5-1-1,with his best wins coming against Babalu and Soko,and the rest are wins over guys that are hardly worth mentioning,while Davis is 9-0,with good wins against Stann,Gustaffson,Boetsch and Lil Nog,fair enough Stann and Boetsch are now MW's,but Lil Nog and Gustaffson IMO are better wins than Soko and Babalu.

I personally would easily back Davis to beat Mousasi,especially after watching how badly Mousasi struggled and got wrestle fucked for 25 mins,by a good wrestler,but one who was completely gassed after 5 mins.Then watching Jardine(who should of lost that fight)sneak a draw because he could easily take Mousasi down when ever he got into trouble on his feet.

Davis has a great wrestling background,his stand up obviously needs improvement,but where it is now,is far from poor.I think he has the range and speed to do well in the stand up against Mousasi,but most importantly,he could take Mousasi down when ever and how ever he wanted,and once down,unlike Mo,he has a gas tank and he isn't only a threat by wrestle fucking him,he has a very dangerous submission game,something that separates him from alot of the other top wrestlers that have got into this game.

I'm firmly on the Davis bandwagon,I don't think he is ready for your Bones,Machida's,Evans and Shoguns just yet,he's got some work to do on improving his punching(his Kicks are pretty good already)and being able to smoothly transition from his striking game to his bread and butter ground game.He's not far off now,but give him 2-3 more fights and I think he will be comfortable being mention in that kind of company.

If I was managing his career,I would like him to get someone like Forrest,Janitor,franklin or Bader next,then if successful move up to your Rampage,Shogun/Hendo loser level or if Mousasi signs for ZUFFA,be his first fight in the UFC,then,if successful,move into a #1 contenders fight or maybe a Title shot..

also Davis didn't dwarf lil Nog,he's obviously alot more shredded and has a freaky physique,but he and Nog are both 6'2 and both cut to get to 205.

I meant standup wise, he is on another level. Thinking about it (the Mo fight) Davis would probably have a good chance of just laying on Mousasi for 15 minutes.

I agree Mousasi has the better stand up,but that's obvious,he comes from a boxing,kick boxing background and has been honing his boxing skills for about 10+ years,while Davis has probably 3-4 years training stand up.

The thing is,I believe Davis's main strength is a more successful base to start of with in MMA compared to Mousasi's (I'm not ignoring Mousasi's Judo background either)and i think Davis has better facilities,training and sparring partners in the states to forward his career compared to Mousasi.Also Davis is obviously a very talented athelete,which there still isn't really that many of in this sport yet,who seems to be like a sponge when it comes to learning the things he needs to,I mean under Lloyd Irvin tutelage,the guy won a No Gi BJJ world championship after only a short time learning the sport and we saw what he did to Boetsch,a powerful move that many BJJ blackbelts would of been proud of pulling off.

You also have to think that with the skills he already possesses,his stand up doesn't need to all of a sudden become that of a k1 level striker,I mean lil Nog has a solid boxing background,but davis was comfortable enough to stay out of trouble and dictate where he wanted the fight to take place.He just needs to be good enough to be comfortable in the stand up,anything more than that would be a great bonus,and I believe his stand up will improve drastically over the next couple of years.

I'd say Mousasi has more work to do on his takedown defense than Davis needs to on his stand up.

Davis beats them easily cos he is a bad matchup for them. Put Shogun in with a talented wrestler, as athlethic as anyone, and great cardio..... What can possibly go wrong?? lol

He can take Shogun down as he did Nog and he can avoid the subs as he did to Nog. How many people get submitted anymore in UFC?? That number is dropping off fast year after year, Let alone subs of the back. Davis wnot give Shogun oppurtunity for sweeps or subs.

He beat Nog easily, on short notice aswell, it was supposed to be Nog-Tito, he most certainly can beat other supposed "top fighters" easily based on the matchup.

Davis is top 10 anyway, so he is not far off any of the guys ive mentioned.

He has beaten really tough competition, Stann, Gustaffson, Boetsch and Nog are no joke. He has taken down everyone he has ever faced and has never been put on his back. Tremendous wrestler who is still very young in this sport and is quite easily improving his skills.

Nog has good takedown defense, and had trained with Phil Davis in the past, so not at all suprising to see a few stuffed double legs in the 1st round. Once Davis started shooting a single leg he took Nog down every single time.

How is a wrestler takedowns getting stuffed a couple of times a suitable standard in asseing how good he is?? GSP, Koscheck, Bones, Cain all get their takedowns stuffed from time to time aswell. Who has a Takedown success rate of 100%?? No one!!

Ofcourse he needs to continue to improve his standup, but its not like he was getting lit up by Lil Nog in 1st round which was all standup. Infact i think 2 judges gave him that round as did i, because of great kicks he has and used.

He beats the likes of Shogun, Forrest, Mousasi right now quite easily.

I've seen your GIF mate, but more importantly I've seen the fight, which means I've also seen a huge Davis struggle to take down a guy pretty much half his size. Maybe he just had an off night, because I must admit he's impressed me in every other outing, especially the one handed kimura against a reknowned wrestler in Boetsch. No doubt about it though, the Nog fight was hugely disappointing considering his hype.

Mousasi and Shogun would kill him at this stage, he's still very very green in the standup, they're both phenoms. He wouldn't get a chance to take them down. Forrest would not be a 'quite easy' fight either, shows how much you bum the guy if you think he would run through three former LHW champs 'quite easy', in a few fights time maybe, but now? Not a chance.

He was dissapointing because he missed takedowns in round 1?? Thats all ur basing this from... Did u stop watching after that?? Did u see him get lit up by Lil Nog in 1st round or something??

It wasnt an off night at all he did exactly as he trained to do, and beat Lil Nog on short notice easily. He followed the gameplan. His biggest win to date.

Someone needs to find a way to stop him, no one has yet been able to deal with his wrestling and the name Shogun does not at all spring to mind as being able to do it.

Exactly. Little Nog is his biggest win to date. The same little Nog that lost to Bader and got beaten by Brilz and gifted a decision.

You're saying that a poor performance against a past it fighter who's never been a contender puts him in the category to beat Shogun??? Rubbish. Shogun's problems have never been against guys like Davis. They've been against guys with a big size advantage when he's been out of shape.