The titles on the Black Clipping Pattern are bright enough to mask the bars. Particularly 17 from the vertical text on 16. Has thought been given to dimming that text?

No one had ever commented on the text being an issue. Most of the time I use that pattern while being closer to the screen than typical viewing distance, in order to clearly see just how low I can set brightness before cutting off above black.

No one had ever commented on the text being an issue. Most of the time I use that pattern while being closer to the screen than typical viewing distance, in order to clearly see just how low I can set brightness before cutting off above black.

Well yeah I've done that too although if you set your black level for six inches from the screen is it meaningful at eight feet? Anyway that pattern wasn't a problem until I got a 9G Pioneer monitor. The degree of contrast is now uncomfortable since I'm in the habit of setting white level first.

if you set your black level for six inches from the screen is it meaningful at eight feet?

My display doesn't have gamma controls, so brightness at the lowest setting where 17 just flashes tends to maximize gamma. I suppose it's possible that perception due to lighting could change at different distances, but generally I watch in a dim room and haven't noticed a change with distance.

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Anyway that pattern wasn't a problem until I got a 9G Pioneer monitor.

Here is a test video that should play on AVCHD compatible players from DVD media. It's just the Basic Settings section. The text has been changed from white to around 40%, and the APL Clipping Pattern flashes 235 (white) at the top and bottom of the screen instead of 254. http://www.sendspace.com/file/pv6tib

I got a new Samsung 63" a couple of days ago. At first I was very pleased, but the more I used it the more some small things started to bother me. Started to notice some color banding, as well as low detail in blacks. So I found this calibration thread.

Turns out, for instance, with the black level test that I couldn't see any flashing bars. The only way I can get it to flash at "17", as is recommended, is by turning up the brightness to almost the maximum. However, with that setting, in actual video, it looks entirely washed out. I tried setting the HDMI black level from "low" to "normal", and I don't have to boost the brightness quite as much to get the "17" to flash, but I still think actual video looks washed out and bad. There will be noticeably more detail in black levels but it's too bright where there will be some noise in some blacks, and the picture overall will be washed out.

I went back (mostly) to the settings I used before, only slightly brighter, because even though some black detail is lost it's still better than a very washed out picture.

I'm kind of annoyed. I suppose this means my Plasma is pretty poor? I read that the latest Samsung panels were supposed to be really good.

Honestly, the picture quality can be really good at times, say, well lit scenes. However whenever there's dark scenes there will be a lot of detail lost and color banding can get very noticeable. Especially dark scenes with some sort of brightly colored light, the picture can start to look quite posterized.

The color banding isn't really noticeable in games, but the poor black level details are. I just tried Wipeout on the PS3, and one particular vehicle was green with black highlights, and I thought it was overly dark, so I pushed up the brightness to the maximum. At that point I could tell some detail in the black highlights, where it had some texture, however this was only noticeable at nearly the maximum level of brightness. However at this point any other blacks in the screen (for instance the black bars) were very noticeably bright (greyish).

Not sure what's going on exactly, but I find it really annoying. A little bit bummed out I didn't lay down a couple hundred more to get a Kuro. Or maybe a projector.

Please tell me I'm doing something wrong here and I can fix it to a point... (The exact model I have is the Samsung PS63B680)

Like commented above an owners thread may help with the different settings the TV offers, or you may want to take at look at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post16870005 which concerns a Samsung display and PS3. Brightness generally doesn't change how dark the TV can get, it just controls where that darkest part happens.

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There will be noticeably more detail in black levels but it's too bright where there will be some noise in some blacks, and the picture overall will be washed out.

I thought that at least some Samsungs offered gamma controls. I don't have any idea if your display has a gamma control, but if it does then there may be setting(s) that will come out of black slower. A higher gamma will better mimic the impression of brightness set too low, but without the loss of information above black.

Like commented above an owners thread may help with the different settings the TV offers, or you may want to take at look at which concerns a Samsung display and PS3. Brightness generally doesn't change how dark the TV can get, it just controls where that darkest part happens.

I thought that at least some Samsungs offered gamma controls. I don't have any idea if your display has a gamma control, but if it does then there may be setting(s) that will come out of black slower. A higher gamma will better mimic the impression of brightness set too low, but without the loss of information above black.

I have a gamma setting that lets me add +3 or -3 to the gamma. I'm not sure what gamma does exactly, it just looks like it dims or boosts the brightness slightly. Are you saying I should be setting it lower or higher?

Thanks for the PS3 link, I will try that out soon. Besides the PS3 though, I watch my movies using an HTPC. A Mac Mini to be precise. Using a DVI to HDMI plug. On my last panel (an LCD) I never had a problem with detail loss in black levels (just greyish blacks...). Is there anything I will have to look out for/configure using an HTPC?

I'm not quite as worried about the whites as about the blacks, mostly because I don't seem to notice any problems with whites while watching actual video, but it might be important to note that I'm having similar problems with the white levels test. I can't get anywhere near 230-234 to flash, no matter how much I play with the brightness/contrast settings. I can get 230-231 to flash, and 232 VERY dimly if I turn the brightness all the way down and the contrast all the way up, but there's no way I can get 233-234 to flash. Not sure what to do about that either. (This is running the test on my HTPC, by the way)

if both devices (PS3 and Mac) are sending PC levels and the display is expecting video levels you could easily see the beahvior you describe. i think. i'll let a real expert confirm this. but that would be my first guess.

so your choices are 1) find the setting on the display that tells it to expect PC levels or 2) change your sources to output video levels.

not sure what settings are available to you on the mac mini but the conventional wisdom says use video levels for watching movies. this might make the desktop etc look a little odd during non-movie-playback computer use, but it helps a little with video processing for movies (and other video content) supposedly.

there are many threads in this forum devoted just to PS3 settings. if you are goping to attempt using video levels on the mac, then you'll want to use the same strategy on the PS3: search those threads for information on the best way to use video levels on the PS3.

if both devices (PS3 and Mac) are sending PC levels and the display is expecting video levels you could easily see the beahvior you describe. i think. i'll let a real expert confirm this. but that would be my first guess.

so your choices are 1) find the setting on the display that tells it to expect PC levels or 2) change your sources to output video levels.

not sure what settings are available to you on the mac mini but the conventional wisdom says use video levels for watching movies. this might make the desktop etc look a little odd during non-movie-playback computer use, but it helps a little with video processing for movies (and other video content) supposedly.

there are many threads in this forum devoted just to PS3 settings. if you are goping to attempt using video levels on the mac, then search those threads for information on the best way to use video levels on the PS3.

I just tried and the PS3 limited setting does indeed work. I haven't tried it extensively, so it might still be washed out on some games, but Wipeout seemed to look fine. I suppose I'll have to do something similar with my HTPC. I've asked on a Mac Mini forum for help, maybe they will know more. I'm hoping a similar setting on the Mac Mini will fix it. Of course with videogames the picture being too bright/washed out is harder to notice than with movies, so I'm not entirely sure if a similar setting on the HTPC will work, but here's to hoping.

I'm not sure what gamma does exactly, it just looks like it dims or boosts the brightness slightly. Are you saying I should be setting it lower or higher?

I've only messed with Samsungs in the store a bit, so I can't say how exactly your display's control works. A thread about your TV in the flat panels area would have more information. In general gamma is how the display increases in light output between black and white. One of the settings will probably produce less light output near black, which should help with your objections to a correct brightness setting.

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Is there anything I will have to look out for/configure using an HTPC?

You may want to look at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post16890581 which touches on a few issues regarding computers. I'm not familiar with the details of your display, so for example I don't know if the HDMI setting is all that's necessary to switch between a video or computer input. I'm also not familiar with Mac to comment if they output levels differently.

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I'm having similar problems with the white levels test. I can't get anywhere near 230-234 to flash, no matter how much I play with the brightness/contrast settings. I can get 230-231 to flash, and 232 VERY dimly if I turn the brightness all the way down and the contrast all the way up, but there's no way I can get 233-234 to flash. Not sure what to do about that either. (This is running the test on my HTPC, by the way)

I have to expect that your computer is expanding levels so that the bar marked white is likely the brightest level reaching the display. Even if you were to send the entire video signal from the PS3, and if your display could show the bars numbered higher than white, you would probably find that the last bar or two of flashing white can be difficult to spot. Really the pattern is easier to use when sending the entire video signal, that way you can see the bars disappear as contrast is increased, assuming the display allows contrast to go high enough to begin clipping above whites.

I allowed my computer to expand as typically expected, and the last couple bars below white were rather difficult to spot. I could see 233 flash more easily by covering the flashing from 230-232. The bar marked 234 was almost indistinguishable from 235. Generally telling two adjacent levels apart is rather difficult, if not impossible. Really the main point of the pattern is to confirm that the information is making it on-screen in the first place, so you might see if going up to the screen and covering the adjacent bars makes 233 easier to see.

Hey guys long time reader... I have been reading threads on calibration the last 3 nights and i'm still stumped. I was just wondering if there is a professional you guys can recommend in Australia/sydney that i can pay to calibrate my hdtv for me. Cheers

Since I don't have a blu ray burner, I guess I should use AVCHD or PATCHED.
Is one easier or better to use than the other, avchd or patched? And they're very small files under 60mb compared to DVE which I think is about 6gb. What am I missing if anything that DVE does?

When I calibrate, does it matter which picture mode the tv is currently set to, ie, standard, movie or dynamic? And once it's calibrated, I presume you're not meant to change the picture mode?

My settings are below for when the tv source is switched to HDMI. What do you think of these? I've always left the sharpness at zero. These settings are all default from the factory. The only setting here that looks too high is the contrast at 95 out of a 100. I find it hard to imagine how much better the bluray PQ would be after calibration since these settings don't, to my eyes, look blown out, washed out, too dark, too bright or too much colour. But I'm happy to give it a go.

When I calibrate, is it meant to be one setting for all sources, SD and HD?

From what you can see, would you think other settings will need to be greatly changed?

Also, backlight, where exactly should it be? I mean it looks good to me anywhere between 7 and 10.

Does the calibration tool take backlight into consideration?

Do I need to go into a service menu?

Do I need to buy a colour meter tool?

Are there any settings below you would say I should immediately change or turn on or off, such as black tone, colour tone, etc?

Hey guys long time reader... I have been reading threads on calibration the last 3 nights and i'm still stumped. I was just wondering if there is a professional you guys can recommend in Australia/sydney that i can pay to calibrate my hdtv for me. Cheers

You might want to try a new thread in the main forum, or else try in the "where are you located" thread.

Since I don't have a blu ray burner, I guess I should use AVCHD or PATCHED.
Is one easier or better to use than the other, avchd or patched?

Some players will only play one of the two versions, so refer to the Blu-ray players list. The Patched version has a few additional features listed in the downloads area if your player supports both, but generally the AVCHD will have better compatibility with a larger number of players.

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And they're very small files under 60mb compared to DVE which I think is about 6gb. What am I missing if anything that DVE does?

Like mentioned in the introduction, one thing DVE has is audio patterns. The patterns are highly compressed, and the Blu-ray related versions unpack to over 2GB.

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When I calibrate, does it matter which picture mode the tv is currently set to, ie, standard, movie or dynamic?

Not really, but some displays will perform slightly differently depending on the mode. To get more information on that sort of thing, and some of your other questions, a thread in the flat panels area might give more info on the available settings for your model TV. Sometimes reviews for a TV will also give information on specific controls.

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When I calibrate, is it meant to be one setting for all sources, SD and HD?

Grayscale is expected to match. If your electronics handle things correctly then color should also match. Generally though you need a DVD calibration disk if you want to be sure and double check how your electronics perform, because for example it's possible that my computer can handle SD and HD differently.

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Also, backlight, where exactly should it be? I mean it looks good to me anywhere between 7 and 10.

This somewhat depends on room lighting. Generally a higher setting will output more light, so both black and white are brighter at higher settings. If you watch in dim room lighting then the more light output for black can be an issue, and it may be beneficial to reduce backlight. On the other hand a backlight that is too low will make whites too dim.

Generally I would suggest setting black-level (brightness) to the lowest setting where 17 flashes. Set white-level (contrast) to a high setting so that only a few bars over 235 flash if possible (depends on display). Then set backlight depending on room lighting. Generally a lower backlight setting will help if you need to make near-blacks darker, and a higher setting will help if you need to make near-whites brighter. If you want for black to appear darker while still having a high backlight for brighter whites, then more light in the room may help to make the darkest shades appear darker.

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Do I need to buy a colour meter tool?

The main advantage is that it gives you a reference for setting red, green, and blue in the grayscale, if your display allows you to alter the grayscale in that way (white balance). Gamma - how light increases between black and white - is easier to look at with a meter, and again not all displays will be able to adjust gamma. The meter will also give you an estimate of how bright white gets, which some suggest to use for setting backlight for example, but generally I use personal preference rather than the reported light output. I've read that some Samsungs have a blue mode for setting color controls, but if not then a meter offers an alternate to using a blue filter to set color and tint. I've also found a meter interesting because it allowed me to get a better idea of what was changing when I tried settings that weren't described well in my TV's manual. Anyway the main point is that a meter will allow for more fine-tuning of the display to suggested performance beyond what the Basic Settings area allow, but it certainly takes some time to learn to use.

I cant use Daemon tool to mount image File ? It says the disc is corrupted .
I use my PC connect to HDTV so burning Image to DVD to play video is unnecessary .Please help

I suppose the download or decompression might be bad. I tried out Daemon Tools and never got any message regarding corruption when mounting images. If you are getting a corruption message when you mount an image, then you probably need to download again. The md5 can also be used to check downloads or the uncompressed images.

On the other hand though, neither of the playback programs I tried would work with any images of the AVS HD 709 files if mounted with Daemon Tools. I ended up with the playback programs reporting unplayable or unsupported disks when trying to load the Daemon Tools images. Generally Virtual CloneDrive has worked with the playback programs I've tried. I know PowerDVD will play an AVCHD disc while not playing an AVCHD mounted image, but otherwise most of the files here seem to play if mounted with Virtual CloneDrive. Based on my testing of Daemon Tools, all I can really do is to suggest instead using Virtual CloneDrive, and then if playback works or not it will be mainly due to the Blu-ray playback software.

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If you absolutely want to use Daemon Tools rather than Virtual CloneDrive it seems to be possible. As far as I can tell Daemon Tools assigns disc type depending on image size, and so with the AVS HD 709 files being only around 2GB Daemon Tools assigns a DVD-ROM disc type. I created an image file (Image editor option in Daemon Tools should work) and included the HDMV folders and then some junk files to push the image size over dual layer DVD. The larger than DVD size image was assigned a BD-ROM disc type and worked when mounted with Daemon Tools from either PowerDVD or Arcsoft.

I suppose the download or decompression might be bad. I tried out Daemon Tools and never got any message regarding corruption when mounting images. If you are getting a corruption message when you mount an image, then you probably need to download again. The md5 can also be used to check downloads or the uncompressed images.

Nvm I used Mp4 file , its work great . But I dont own any glasses filter Wonder If anyway to calibrate w/o it , I remember ffdshow decoder can add blue mode to video but forgot how...

I remember ffdshow decoder can add blue mode to video but forgot how...

Even if that's the case, it couldn't be used for setting color controls on the display because the computer would only be sending blue. Off-hand I'm not sure it would necessarily make sense to adjust color at the computer.

Off-hand I'm not sure it would necessarily make sense to adjust color at the computer.

True that . I only need slightly adjust black/white level to fit my view. But some I feel like R'G'B individual gamma it little high/not well adjusted ( It gave differrent result in some patterns I tested ) so just try to make the best out of it .Otherwise everything cool .

Even if that's the case, it couldn't be used for setting color controls on the display because the computer would only be sending blue. Off-hand I'm not sure it would necessarily make sense to adjust color at the computer.

As usual, I'm curious... if you're doing it with a proper meter, monitoring the display you'll be watching on, and using the computer as the eventual source, why wouldn't it make sense to adjust wherever you can adjust? Perhaps the adjustments aren't as sophisticated, or don't operate quite the same way that we're used ot in TVs, but if you can get good results on the graphs, shouldn't it look better (read: more accurate) in the end?

Maybe it's not the preferred place to do it, but as a last (or only) resort?

As usual, I'm curious... if you're doing it with a proper meter, monitoring the display you'll be watching on, and using the computer as the eventual source, why wouldn't it make sense to adjust wherever you can adjust?

If you want to adjust the gamut or change the gamma, and the display doesn't have adjustments for those items, then it would probably make sense to adjust at the computer. Without looking into things further, I'm just not sure it's ideal to adjust the main color control at the computer with how I believe a computer signal takes up the entire range it can send.