its interesting....when our coach does that, people seem to whine about it.

I think there's a big difference in effect between a coach doing that and an actual player doing that. If you're actually out there on the ice busting your ass every night, and your mates are slacking, you should deal with it appropriately. A coach on the other hand, isn't actually playing the games, so I'd prefer he be the even-keeled, steady hand guiding the team.

I know some are probably assuming this is my opinion because I'm a "Renney guy" and don't like Torts...but it's actually the other way around: because I like my coach steady and calm, I like Renney and dislike Torts.

What exactly am I dismissing? His "monster" season that happened to come the year where scoring was up league wide? You think it's a coincidence 05-06 is the same season Gomez scored 33 goals and had over 80 points?

Or perhaps Jagr's final season, where he never turned it on UNTIL the playoffs. Maybe if he hadn't waited till April to start playing, the team might have had a better shot at actually getting somewhere in the playoffs.

And again, his name was brought up in regards to his captaincy. As far as I recall, captains are supposed to put the team before themselves. Boy, Jagr sure did that. Like when he couldn't possibly remain with the team unless he was the highest paid player. Or, as I mentioned before, when he cost his team goals because apparently skating hard for a line change isn't part of a captain's job description.

As I've said before, Ranger fans feelings towards Jagr are nearing the ridiculousness of those held for Kovalev by Canadiens fans.

This isn't a discussion about Jagr, but since you feel the need to take shots...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e

What exactly am I dismissing? His "monster" season that happened to come the year where scoring was up league wide? You think it's a coincidence 05-06 is the same season Gomez scored 33 goals and had over 80 points?

Did Gomez lead the league in scoring for most of the season? Did Gomez finish 2 points back of the scoring leader? Did Gomez break the Rangers single season goal scoring record in 05-06? No, Jagr did. He had an injury free regular season and he was the most dominant player in the league.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e

Or perhaps Jagr's final season, where he never turned it on UNTIL the playoffs. Maybe if he hadn't waited till April to start playing, the team might have had a better shot at actually getting somewhere in the playoffs.

I'm not going to get into what happened in the regular season, because the playoffs are what matters anyways. He had 15 points in 10 games. He carried this team against a far superior opponent. And you're going to say that if not for his season, we would have gone further?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e

And again, his name was brought up in regards to his captaincy. As far as I recall, captains are supposed to put the team before themselves. Boy, Jagr sure did that. Like when he couldn't possibly remain with the team unless he was the highest paid player. Or, as I mentioned before, when he cost his team goals because apparently skating hard for a line change isn't part of a captain's job description.

Put the team before themselves? Like when Jagr carried this sorry team on his back against Pitt? Or when he had 2 goals and an assist in game 4 after we were already down 3-0 in Pitt, featuring a goal where he took a vicious check in the slot to score...

And just like none of us know about Captain Miserable's leadership behind closed doors, none of us know about Jagr's contract discussion either.

Jagr was two points behind the league leader in 05-06. I don't care if goals were up 10-fold - he was still right there with the leader. He made everyone around him better, and when he got hurt in the playoffs, it was done for the Rangers.

Regarding Jagr's last season...he was hamstrung by a rookie centerman (Dubi). Further, I think Renney's PP strategy didn't help anyone, and at the end of the day, he scored 15 points in 10 playoff games - and was there enough to help the Rangers eck out a spot in the playoffs.

Jagr was two points behind the league leader in 05-06. I don't care if goals were up 10-fold - he was still right there with the leader. He made everyone around him better, and when he got hurt in the playoffs, it was done for the Rangers.

Regarding Jagr's last season...he was hamstrung by a rookie centerman (Dubi). Further, I think Renney's PP strategy didn't help anyone, and at the end of the day, he scored 15 points in 10 playoff games - and was there enough to help the Rangers eck out a spot in the playoffs.

Yeah..Jagr in his last year was still 1000 times the player Drury is now. Plus, he was a beast in the playoffs. Played his best when it mattered most. Thats something you cannot say about Drurys tenure in NY.

Yeah..Jagr in his last year was still 1000 times the player Drury is now. Plus, he was a beast in the playoffs. Played his best when it mattered most. Thats something you cannot say about Drurys tenure in NY.

Jagr was two points behind the league leader in 05-06. I don't care if goals were up 10-fold - he was still right there with the leader. He made everyone around him better, and when he got hurt in the playoffs, it was done for the Rangers.

Regarding Jagr's last season...he was hamstrung by a rookie centerman (Dubi). Further, I think Renney's PP strategy didn't help anyone, and at the end of the day, he scored 15 points in 10 playoff games - and was there enough to help the Rangers eck out a spot in the playoffs.

I'm not denying his greatness as a player. He's arguably the greatest European hockey player of all time. I'm denying his greatness as a captain, and I still contend that his acquisition is what led to the team you see before you today. Obviously, that's Sather's fault, not his. I just don't understand the obsession with the guy. Scratch that, I definitely understand it. It's the same kind of thinking that allows Sather to make the same mistake season after season.

And I don't think Renney had a PP strategy. I think Jagr had a PP strategy, and that's the strategy the team adhered to, whether it worked or not.

Regarding his ability to be a captain, it's honestly tough for me to say as I more and more feel I can't decide who is a good captain and who isn't since it's an intangible that I cannot measure, and if a team sucks, or the coaching strategy isn't great, sometimes it's hard for any one person to change that.

As for his acquisition...it was Sather who acquired Gomez and Drury to replace Jagr. While Jagr was here, the Rangers should've done better, but in year one they seemed to lack depth at win, in year two they tried to solve that problem but ran the solution (Shanny) into the ground and he had little left in the tank come playoff time. Further, he never got that impact defenseman, or PP point guy (not named Matt Cullen) who may've been the difference in going out in round two or further.

Jagr was a good bridge for a team that had little youth to get excited about. The Rangers just keep trying to extend that bridge, unfortunately.

here's a fundamental question: can an effective captain be a person who isn't real lively and isn't a yeller? Further, can a captain be a guy who scores less than 10 goals and tallies less than 30 points in a season?

here's a fundamental question: can an effective captain be a person who isn't real lively and isn't a yeller? Further, can a captain be a guy who scores less than 10 goals and tallies less than 30 points in a season?

Nik Lidstrom isn't a yeller.

Dave Andreychuk had 39 points and was basically a PP specialist when TB won the Cup.

Scott Stevens wasn't a yeller and he had 22 points when the Devils won in 95. 29 points in 2000 and 20 points in 03.

Callahan or Dubi are more viable options than Henrik. I picked Avery because nobody can deny how much love he has for the team, the organization, the city and the fans. The problem is that he has to be a "lead by example" guy and I dont know if he will ever be that.

Callahan or Dubi are more viable options than Henrik. I picked Avery because nobody can deny how much love he has for the team, the organization, the city and the fans. The problem is that he has to be a "lead by example" guy and I dont know if he will ever be that.

It doesnt matter. Callahan or Dubi will Captain this team in 2012.

Yeah yeah Avery loves this team.....

But admit it, he loves himself way too much to be a Captain in this league. Does anyone doubt this? I like the guy, but lets not get carried away here

But admit it, he loves himself way too much to be a Captain in this league. Does anyone doubt this? I like the guy, but lets not get carried away here

I don't know, I know someone from HF that's relatively close with Avery (grew up together), and they've said that a lot of what you see with him is a show, and is intentional. They say he's not quite as full of himself as he comes across. I could see that being true...

...but yeah, the only part of Avery I know is one that absolutely loves himself.