It's a pretty accurate statement. The only thing missing is "Trump haters", "panty-wadding lib losers and cry-babies in safe spaces who want their country to fail" and are therefore un-American.
Did I forget something?
Oh yeah...."butt-hurt because we LOST"!

Thanks for another fine example to show HP.

__________________A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise for to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson.

__________________A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise for to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson.

I would say to this post that whenever I ask conservatives specific questions regarding Trump I never get a direct answer.

No one has yet to respond Trump's role with the Birther Movement. I quite honestly never knew until right before the election. I was very surprised by that. I knew that there was a Birther Movement. Vaguely.

It kinda goes along with that attorney from Idaho. Who sent me this meme and long email about Diane Feinstein claiming that all veterans are crazy with PTSD--and my sister responds by writing this:

Doesn't she know that many of our police officers are actually vets, and she really doesn't show much gratitude for their service. If you thought this email stuff was bad, I can't help but think of Nathan and how willing he would be to join the fray if he read those comments (lol). Seriously, he does make a point... just saying.

to which her daughter responds with a Snope comment that the meme is just made up.

So Bullseye, I've had it. Because frankly this is pretty mild. But I ask myself the following questions.

Well first, I questioned if he really had a law degree. He does. And I ask myself about Trump and this attorney if they are deranged or stupid or naive.

And I have come to the conclusion that they are not. That what they deal in is propaganda. I'm never going to get an answer to a direct question because that is not their point.

He is not a "nice guy". He is a guy who spreads hate and disinformation. I have come to the conclusion that the root of it is racism or at least fear of other cultures. Trump's problem with Barack Obama was that he was black and a muslim. Period. Even if he wasn't. Muslim that is. Just as the attorney from Idaho is connected to white nationalist movements.

Policies or appointments:Trade policies (getting rid of NAFTA, protectionism, etc...) - It is clear he doesn't know what he is doing at all. His idea of helping this economy is trying to bring back jobs in dying industries at the expense of the environment and future growth. Coal and manufacturing jobs are not a long term solution. It is a band aid. Tariffs don't help, they hurt.

When it comes to deals like NAFTA I think the question is, is it better to have a deal between multiple countries or is it better to have individual deals. In other words, is it better for the US to have a single deal with Mexico and Canada. Honestly I don't know but on the outside I would think individual deals would be better and easier to renegotiate.

While coal and manufacturing jobs may not be a long term solution they are still a necessity until we no longer need them. There is still a need for these jobs until technology advances to where we don't need these jobs.

Immigration Policies (Muslim ban, wall, deportations) - The Wall is dumb and a waste of resources. The Muslim ban is against what America stands for and yes I will call it a Muslim ban. Mass deportations and getting rid of the DREAM act are short sighted and will hurt our communities and economy more than he thinks.

All I will say on the wall is that not only would it slow down the drugs, illegal weapons, and illegals coming unto the country it will save a lot of lives. A lot of Mexicans die trying to get across the border.

As far as the DREAM act goes, Obama really screwed this up. There is no reason why illegals should get the same benefits as those who spent years going threw the proper channels to become legal citizens. While I do feel bad for the families but if they are here illegally then they need to be deported and go through the proper channels to become a legal citizen. Trump does needs some kind of immigration reform to speed up the process so people can become legal citizens.

Muslim ban was a poor use of words by Trump but a travel ban is needed in these 7 countries because they have no central government and do not issue passports. They have no way of regulation who comes in or leaves those countries.

Repealing ACA without a suitable plan - (Enough said. We cannot continue as a nation where lack of healthcare destroys families and bankrupts millions)

The ACA will not be repealed until they have a replacement. The Democrats have the burden of ACA right now and the Republicans won't take that burden until they have a replacement. In 2018 ACA will completely implode. Insure companies know this and that is why they have started to drop ACA.

Devos - I understand the love of shaking things up, but it is clear from her hearings that she is not ready for this job. Choice is great but what about areas rural/poor urban with no choice? Also, the god in school thing is potentially frightening.

I was not convinced with here either after her hearing. She was a train wreck. As a parent and having my kids going to public school I know they are in dire straights right now and what they government has been doing isn't working. I'm willing to give her a chance but she is on a short leash.....

The Environment - Man made climate change is real and choosing business over our earth is the epitome of short sighted.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that that the EPA needs to oversea businesses to make sure they are not dumping waste...etc destroying the earth but I don't think that businesses are going to abruptly change the climate. Climate change is going to happen. It has happened in the past with no businesses.

Other things hurting America:
Attacks on unfavorable media.
Attacks on judiciary.
Attacks on businesses making business decisions that he doesn't like.
Consistent lying about easily provable lies.

This is the unpolished or non-politician that is Trump. I don't agree with alot of this as well but have accepted the fact that Trump is not a politician and does not fit that mold. Whether this is a bad thing or not I guess we will find out.

Unknown at this time:
Tax plan (seems overly ambitious and potentially harmful)
Gay rights (talks a good game)
Abortion (I have no idea what is going to happen as many states continue to challenge this)
SCOUTS pick (I like Gorsuch, I think. I may rue that comment later)
Foreign policy (I will admit I am worried.)

Policies or appointments:
Trade policies (getting rid of NAFTA, protectionism, etc...) - It is clear he doesn't know what he is doing at all. His idea of helping this economy is trying to bring back jobs in dying industries at the expense of the environment and future growth. Coal and manufacturing jobs are not a long term solution. It is a band aid. Tariffs don't help, they hurt.
Immigration Policies (Muslim ban, wall, deportations) - The Wall is dumb and a waste of resources. The Muslim ban is against what America stands for and yes I will call it a Muslim ban. Mass deportations and getting rid of the DREAM act are short sighted and will hurt our communities and economy more than he thinks.
Repealing ACA without a suitable plan - (Enough said. We cannot continue as a nation where lack of healthcare destroys families and bankrupts millions)
Devos - I understand the love of shaking things up, but it is clear from her hearings that she is not ready for this job. Choice is great but what about areas rural/poor urban with no choice? Also, the god in school thing is potentially frightening.
The Environment - Man made climate change is real and choosing business over our earth is the epitome of short sighted.

Other things hurting America:
Attacks on unfavorable media.
Attacks on judiciary.
Attacks on businesses making business decisions that he doesn't like.
Consistent lying about easily provable lies.

Unknown at this time:
Tax plan (seems overly ambitious and potentially harmful)
Gay rights (talks a good game)
Abortion (I have no idea what is going to happen as many states continue to challenge this)
SCOUTS pick (I like Gorsuch, I think. I may rue that comment later)
Foreign policy (I will admit I am worried.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fubzeppelin

Anytime. I know we disagree on almost everything but I am grateful that you at least try to listen to what others say in here. Yes we can all be aholes from time to time but I find you consistently willing to actually discuss things in here. I just kind of banged that out without too much thought so there are probably errors in there so dont go too hard on me.

Also, screw the chargers.

Actually, we agree on more things than you think. We just have different ideas on how to fix them.

Actually, we agree on more things than you think. We just have different ideas on how to fix them.

Thank you for your replys above. I should have rephrased this better, we agree on many things just not on how to accomplish them.

What is funny to me about this whole thing is that Trump was partly elected because he is not a politician, but many of these early mistakes could have been avoided had he been a better politician. I think that the people say that they want outsiders but are then outraged when the outsider cant work well in a system that is entirely different than the business world. Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't to a certain extent.

I know that this is a taboo subject that leads to name calling and what not around these parts, but what is your evidence that man made climate change does not exist? I will absolutely agree that climate change has always existed but there are usually reasons for it. Do you believe man incapable of altering the planet in this way?

__________________
Sharp mind, eternal youth. I'll be the first to never die. Nice thought and I'm never gonna lose it.

Thank you for your replys above. I should have rephrased this better, we agree on many things just not on how to accomplish them.

What is funny to me about this whole thing is that Trump was partly elected because he is not a politician, but many of these early mistakes could have been avoided had he been a better politician. I think that the people say that they want outsiders but are then outraged when the outsider cant work well in a system that is entirely different than the business world. Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't to a certain extent.

I know that this is a taboo subject that leads to name calling and what not around these parts, but what is your evidence that man made climate change does not exist? I will absolutely agree that climate change has always existed but there are usually reasons for it. Do you believe man incapable of altering the planet in this way?

I think Trump has a chance to be a good to great President if given the chance but I don't think he will get that chance. It will be interesting to see how he weathers this storm and if the Administration can get on track. Lots of growing pains and we are seeing the inexperience of a non-politician in the WH.

As far as the climate change goes. I do think man made climate change exists but I dont think it changes at the rate that we have been led to believe.

There is a lot of political power and money to be made by circling your wagons to man made climate change. You need to look no further then Gore as he is traveling around in his big *** Suburban.

I don't know how many times I have already said this on this thread but I will say it again. This thread is NOT pointed at anyone from this forum personally... So stop pretending that I have posted this thread to take shots at you, the collective liberals, from this forum. I do, however, think that most of you are butt-hurt over the results of the election and wish nothing more than for this president to fail. I make no apologies. Your posts prove my point on this...

That said, again, this thread is pointed at the deranged from the Democrat party but I already said that several times in this thread. IF the party wants to win elections again... they need to stop doubling down on the hysteria and fear-mongering just like the Republicans needed to stop with theirs if they were ever going to take power again.

But anyway... back to the thread. I would very much appreciate if people would stay on topic.

I think Trump has a chance to be a good to great President if given the chance but I don't think he will get that chance.

What's stopping him?

He won the election. That alone is his chance to shine. However, he not only won, but he's got Republican majorities in both houses of congress. He's getting his cabinet filled with all the contentious people he picked. Further, according to him, he has the support of the people --and along that same line of reasoning, he claims to have won the popular vote in spite of all evidence to the contrary (I won't get into landslides).

He couldn't ask for anything more, nor a better setup than all that. So really, honest question here, why do you think he's not going to get a chance to prove himself?

He won the election. That alone is his chance to shine. However, he not only won, but he's got Republican majorities in both houses of congress. He's getting his cabinet filled with all the contentious people he picked. Further, according to him, he has the support of the people --and along that same line of reasoning, he claims to have won the popular vote in spite of all evidence to the contrary (I won't get into landslides).

He couldn't ask for anything more, nor a better setup than all that. So really, honest question here, why do you think he's not going to get a chance to prove himself?

My concern is that he is going to be undermined from within. We kinda see that with the leaks. To be fair Flynn brought it on himself but you have to ask who ordered the the phone tap of Flynn? This happened during the Obama Admistration.

I'll just add that there is a lot of speculation and concerns without a lot of information or evidence.

My concern is that he is going to be undermined from within. We kinda see that with the leaks. To be fair Flynn brought it on himself but you have to ask who ordered the the phone tap of Flynn? This happened during the Obama Admistration.

I can't wait until this investigation begins, and I hope that if Obama has been shown to have done something illegal or has orchestrated the persons responsible for the illegal leaks, and wiretapping, they throw the book at him...

And, I, like you, also believe Trump will continue to be blamed and undermined for the illegal leaks coming from the WH. Trump will also continue to be undermined by the non-stop hating liberal media, who will continue to conspire against him. Look at how many times of the day the leftist media says Trump is pro-Russia...

He won the election. That alone is his chance to shine. However, he not only won, but he's got Republican majorities in both houses of congress. He's getting his cabinet filled with all the contentious people he picked. Further, according to him, he has the support of the people --and along that same line of reasoning, he claims to have won the popular vote in spite of all evidence to the contrary (I won't get into landslides).

He couldn't ask for anything more, nor a better setup than all that. So really, honest question here, why do you think he's not going to get a chance to prove himself?

In the press, on the air, in the streets, on friggin' award shows, on college campuses. Take your pick. Find me a place where he IS getting a fair chance.

__________________A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise for to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. - Thomas Jefferson.