You said:
TC……SO following and doing what God the Father says makes us puppets? , and Jesus was doing his own thing by his own spirit? I agree with JODI on this, you not even close to understanding the truth on this one.

Me: Nowhere did I say that. You are really messed up in understanding what others are even saying. You make it appear that they are saying something else so that you can criticize them for. Then we have to waste our valuable time searching and defending what we really said in contrast to what you want to make it appear that we said. Nowhere did I say that Christ nor we are puppets. I don’t think anyone would say they have said that–this is stupid. Please copy and paste and quote the page and post number of what you think I said that.

This is the communiqué that had transpired on page 97 FEBRUARY 18, 2019 AT 4:03 PM between you and me. I had addressed this wrongly to Nick.You: Jesus is called the word of God, because he tells us what GOD is telling him to tell us, JESUS , himself is not the word of God, the LORD OUR GOD WHO IS SPIRIT, was “IN” the “man” Jesus and was speaking through him to us. Just as he was in the prophets before Jesus ever existed.

Me:John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?JESUS IS NOT A PUPPET. He also has a human aspect to the mind in him. This mind is in his Father through the holy spirit, not just his Father’s mind in him.

This communiqué shows that there is only ONE SPIRIT between the Father and Son but two minds of that one spirit.

This is the communiqué that had transpired on page 97 FEBRUARY 18, 2019 AT 6:11 PM between Jodi and me.

You: Because Jesus had been anointed at the river sent to preach God’s word, doesn’t mean that he was a puppet. Neither were the prophets before Jesus’s day speaking God’s word were puppets.

This is what I wrote;
“You: Jesus is called the word of God, because he tells us what GOD is telling him to tell us, JESUS , himself is not the word of God, the LORD OUR GOD WHO IS SPIRIT, was “IN” the “man” Jesus and was speaking through him to us. Just as he was in the prophets before Jesus ever existed.

Me:
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?JESUS IS NOT A PUPPET. He also has a human aspect to the mind in him. This mind is in his Father through the holy spirit, not just his Father’s mind in him.””
What I am stressing is that the communication is two ways, otherwise Christ would be a puppet, which he is not.

Gene, explain to me how this communiqué says that I said Christ or us are puppets.

You: TC……SO following and doing what God the Father says makes us puppets? , and Jesus was doing his own thing by his own spirit? I agree with JODI on this, you not even close to understanding the truth on this one.
We ALL RECIEVE FROM “ONE” GOD life and how we should live it, and that includes JESUS.
IT IS THE SPRIT OF GOD, that connects us with the Father, and with Each other including Jesus , not the spirit of Jesus. TC, your still stuck in trinitarian idology , they believe as you do,
HAVEN’T you read what Jesus said, “he could do “nothing” of himself”. That it was the Father who was “IN” HIM DOING THE WORKS”. So in what way was the Father “in” him doing the works?
You keep going to trinitarian sources and it’s screwing you reasonings up. Now your saying we are all “puppets” because we and Jesus follow one God only. No wonder you say the things you do, TC if you start is wrong, go back to the beginning and take another look, you will find you are trapped in trinitarian thought, of making Jesus equal with God the Father.
.Me:This is the communiqué that had transpired on page 97 FEBRUARY 18, 2019 AT 4:03 PM between you and me.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?JESUS IS NOT A PUPPET. He also has a human aspect to the mind in him. This mind is in his Father through the holy spirit, not just his Father’s mind in him.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/8-5.htmNew American Standard BiblePsalm 8:5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!
Here are the three corresponded verses that relate to each other.John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the (holy spirit), whom the Father will SEND IN MY NAME, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the spirit (word) of truth, is come, he (it) will guide you into all truth: for he (it) shall not speak of himself (itself); but whatsoever he (it) shall hear, that shall he (it) speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He (it) shall glorify me: for he (it) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:…

Me: How do they relate?John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will SEND IN MY NAME,…John 16:3 but whatsoever (the holy spirit) shall hear, that shall (the holy spirit) speak.

Me: The holy spirit hears and reveals what the Father instructs it to speak.

John 16:14 The (holy spirit) shall glorify me: for (the holy spirit) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the (holy spirit), whom the Father will SEND IN MY NAME,…

Me: The Father receives the word from the Messiah and sends it to us by the holy spirit.

John 15:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him ALL THINGS that himself doeth:…John 15:14 (The Father) shall glorify me: for (The Father through the holy spirit) shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Me: Our heavenly Father takes from the Son through the holy spirit and shows it to us.

Does this communiqué show that the Father is greater than the son and not equal. Does this not show that there is one spirit between the Father, his Son and we.

I have quote Ephesians 4:4 many times to show that there is only one spirit in the end—the holy spirit.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Show me where I said there are three equal persons that compose one God. Show me where I said that the Father and Son are equal. You can’t because I have never said that. You make it seem like I said things I did not, either through your deception and or lack of understanding of what others are saying or what scripture is saying.

This is your strategy. Do not address the issues nor their corresponding scriptures you cannot get around. Instead just focus on the misleading statements that we have never said. This wastes our time and energy to exhaust us and wastes our time so that we cannot address the new issues completely that come up. This is not honest.

By God’s foreknowledge and determined purpose in a Son of Man God created all things.

“all things were created THROUGH him, and for him”

THROUGH — by means of, because of

“all things were created BECAUSE of him, and for him”

the him here is the one who SHED his blood who now sits at God’s right as Paul wrote these words, who thus is the firstborn over all creation, as Paul says directly the firstborn of the dead, the new beginning.

God created the world Himself by His own hands we are directly told, and it is also said that He created it through (BECAUSE OF) JESUS. Jesus was the Son of Man to come and would bring eternal life, sit at God’s right hand, return from heaven to sit on David’s throne. By God’s foreknowledge and determined purpose in this Son of Man God created all things.

Folks completely disregard not only how the word THROUGH is COMMONLY USED, they disregard God’s determined purpose, they disregard the very fact that we are told God created it Himself, and they disregard that the passage is actually speaking about JESUS, the Son of Man who SHED HIS blood, and at the time of Paul’s writing was as a matter of fact sitting at God’s right hand as a firstborn overall creation.

WHEN you change WHO the passage is speaking about, you change the meaning of that passage. You change it and invent theories resulting in a doctrine of lies. God did not create the world by having a non flesh one of a kind son of God create it for Him, which he would have actually been making it for himself also. God created the world BECAUSE OF JESUS and FOR JESUS, the Son of Man, the one who God would perfect and MAKE into the source to our eternal life.

What makes it so obvious besides the text itself is that without this Son of Man shedding his blood, God would not have made the world in the first place, because all He would have been making was a world left to sin and death. God made the world through HIS PLAN of eternal life for mankind, which is why God is said to have promised such before the world was created.

What makes it even more obvious is the fact that Jesus didn’t go back to being a non flesh one of a kind son of God, he became the firstborn of many brethren, he became exactly what God had promised to David, a man of the root and offspring of David that God made into His firstborn, that God made into a king of kings and a lord of lords to sit on David’s throne forever.

Jodi, your gospel is this in a nutshell. Please correct any errors or misconceptions.

God created the universe, heaven, angels, and all living beings. He did so because a man born of Adam on a planet called Earth which would take place much later on. On this planet, this man would be born like all other sinful flesh (an offspring of Adam) who was named Jesus and would overcome because of assistance from God’s Spirit from without. The result was zero sin in his life, thereby changing the saying “all have sinned” to “all men have sinned except one”. While not the messiah, he eventually became the messiah because he overcame by the Spirit and then this spirit eventually entered him some thirty or so years later. This led to a simple rule by which you can judge Jesus, which is he is never the Christ because the word Jesus only refers to particular man who was like all other men, albeit he had a unique calling. But when this man like us received the Spirit at his baptism, then he was known as Jesus Christ and not before because the Spirit adjoined this offspring of Adam. Now all who follow this man can be sons or super offspring of Adam too when they receive this spirit inside them. However, they are not known as the Christ even though they too are ordinary men and received the same spirit inside them. The reason for this is a mystery.

I appreciate you taking the time to try and define what you think I think in a nutshell. You had asked for a paragraph from me and I apologize for not following through. I will do that and then you can compare it to your nutshell. Knowing what you think I think, will be helpful for me in creating my paragraph, and helpful I think in moving forward with our debate.

I appreciate you taking the time to try and define what you think I think in a nutshell. You had asked for a paragraph from me and I apologize for not following through. I will do that and then you can compare it to your nutshell. Knowing what you think I think, will be helpful for me in creating my paragraph, and helpful I think in moving forward with our debate.

By God’s foreknowledge and determined purpose in a Son of Man God created all things.

“all things were created THROUGH him, and for him”

THROUGH — by means of, because of

“all things were created BECAUSE of him, and for him”

the him here is the one who SHED his blood who now sits at God’s right as Paul wrote these words, who thus is the firstborn over all creation, as Paul says directly the firstborn of the dead, the new beginning.

Hi Jodi,

Once again you are not answering my question, and
instead repeating what you have said 1,000,000 times.

Here is my question (this time please answer):How did God make everything *THROUGH* Jesus?Saying he made everything for him is not an answer!

If this question is TOO TOUGH for you, ask me,……..and I will certainly answer; OK?
But please either answer or say “I don’t know” FIRST!

You said: the him here is the one who SHED his blood who now sits at God’s right as Paul wrote these words, who thus is the firstborn over all creation, as Paul says directly the firstborn of the dead, the new beginning.

You make out like “over all creation and ” of the dead” are each and the same thing.

T8……your post 843543 said you haven’t ever concidered that Jesus was not the anointing or the anoint-ed. You went on to say you believed he was anointed , with God’s Holy Spirit. That good so far, and scripture shows when that happened, as Jodi and I have shown you over and over by direct quotes from scroptures.

Mat 3:16…..And Jesus when he was baptized , went straightway out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God decending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Mark 1:10…. (after he was baptized in the Jordan river) and straightway comming out of the water , he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove decending upon him.

Luk 3:22…. (after being baptized ) the heaven was opened, ) and the Holy Ghost decended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, thou art my beloved son, in thee I am well pleased.

John 1:32….and John bare reord saying, I saw the Spirit decending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

All four main gospels record the event, of Jesus recieving the anounting spirit from God out of heaven, not to mention other scriptures also.

You on the other hand produce one scripture, showing no anointing process, and expect us to believe you.

I think me and Jodi and Nick and whoever else is of the truth will believe the four “MAIN” gospels.

The bible says that “all things were created through him and for him.”

The “him” in this passage Paul just said was the one who shed his blood, and who at the time of Paul’s writing was in fact a firstborn over all creation.

THROUGH is a word that has many different meanings, it is used OFTEN to mean BECAUSE OF.

The passage IS speaking of Jesus the Son of Man who was sitting at God’s right hand when Paul wrote Hebrews.

all things were created through (Because of) him and for him.

When God made heaven and earth by His own Hands, He did it through (because of) Jesus the Son of Man. He created heaven and earth through (because of) His determined purpose which was held in the coming of the Son of Man who would bring redemption and end to sin and death.

We are told that God established the end before He brought forth the beginning. God established the END of sin, before He even created heaven and earth. The end of sin is also a NEW BEGINNING, of which is DEFINED by the firstborn human from the dead having eternal life.

So what does that tell you? What does that tell you when Jesus is returning as the Son of Man, what does that tell you when he is called the firstborn of many brethren, what does that tell you when as the firstborn of the dead he is the root and offspring of David returning to sit on David’s throne ACCORDING to incorruptible flesh? It tells you that Jesus didn’t pre-exist and he certainly didn’t create heaven and earth, God did by His Wisdom and determined purpose through David’s son who God had sworn with an oath that He was going to MAKE him into His firstborn.