Woody Allen

let's battle it out again, folks.

ENTp or INTp?

Mr. Allen, do you truly believe that happiness in life is impossible?

This is my perspective and has always been my perspective on life. I have a very grim, pessimistic view of it. I always have since I was a little boy; it hasn’t gotten worse with age or anything. I do feel that’s it’s a grim, painful, nightmarish, meaningless experience and that the only way that you can be happy is if you tell yourself some lies and deceive yourself.

I think it’s safe to say that most people would disagree.

But I am not the first person to say this or even the most articulate person. It was said by Nietzsche, it was said by Freud, it was said by Eugene O’Neill. One must have one’s delusions to live. If you look at life too honestly and clearly, life becomes unbearable because it’s a pretty grim enterprise, you will admit.

I have a hard time imagining Woody Allen having such a hard life…

I have been very lucky and I have made my talent a very productive life for me, but everything else I am not good at. I am not good getting through life, even the simplest things. These things that are a child’s play for most people are a trauma for me.

Can you give me an example?

Checking in at an airport or at hotel, handling my relationships with other people, going for a walk, exchanging things in a store… I’ve been working on the same Olympus Typewriter since I was sixteen – and it still looks like new. All of my films were written on that typewriter, but until recently I couldn’t even change the color ribbon myself. There were times when I would invite people over to dinner just so they would change the ribbon. It’s a tragedy.

Do you distrust the good things in life?

Life is full of moments that are good – winning a lottery, seeing a beautiful woman, a great dinner – but the whole thing is tragic. It’s an oasis that is very pleasant. Take a film like Bergman’s The Seventh Seal. This is a film of great tragedy, but there is a moment when he is sitting with the children and drinking milk and eating wild strawberries. But then that wonderful moment passes and you come back to what existence really is.

Are you equally pessimistic about love?

You are much more dependent on luck than you think. People say if you want to have a good relationship, you have to work at it. But you never hear it about anything you really like, about sailing or going to soccer games. You never say: I have to work at it. You just love it. You can’t work at a relationship; you can’t control it. You have to be lucky and go through your life. If you are not lucky you have to be prepared for some degree of suffering. That’s why most relationships are very difficult and have some degree of pain. People stay together because of inertia, they don’t have the energy. Because they are frightened of being lonely, or they have children.

Can a man love two women at the same time?

More than two. (Laughs) I think you can. That’s why romance is a very difficult and painful thing, a very hard, very complicated thing. You can be with your wife, very happily married, and then you meet some woman and you love her. But you love your wife, too. And you also love that one. Or if she’s met some man and she loves the man and she loves you. And then you meet somebody else and now there are three of you. (Laughs) Why only one person?

Things might get a bit tricky if one were to follow your advice…

It’s important to control yourself because life gets too complicated if you don’t, but the impulse is often there for people. Some say society should be more open. That doesn’t work either. I think it’s a lose-lose situation. If you pursue the other woman, it’s a losing situation and it’s not good for your relationship or your marriage. If your marriage is open and you’re allowed to, that’s no good either. There’s no way, really in the end, to be happy unless you get very lucky.

Do you ever cry?

I cry in the cinema all the time. It’s probably one of the only places I ever cry, because I have trouble crying. In Hannah and Her Sisters there was a scene where I was supposed to cry, and they tried everything, but it was impossible. They blew the stuff in my eyes and I couldn’t cry, but in the cinema I weep. It’s like magic. I see the end of Bicycle Thieves or City Lights. It’s the only place – never in the theater and almost never in life.

You used to star in almost all of your films, but in recent years you’ve been in less and less of them. Why?

Only because there is no good part. For years I played the romantic lead and then I couldn’t play it anymore because I got too old. It’s just no fun not playing the guy who gets the girl. You can imagine how frustrating it is when I do these movies with Scarlett Johansson and Naomi Watts and the other guys get them and I am the director. I am that old guy over there that is the director. I don’t like that. I like to be the one that sits opposite them in the restaurant, looks in their eyes and lies to them. So if I can’t do that it’s not much fun to play in the movies.

What’s your take on getting older?

I find it a lousy deal. There is no advantage getting older. You don’t get smarter, you don’t get wiser, you don’t get more mellow, you don’t get more kindly, nothing good happens. Your back hurts more, you get more indigestion, your eyesight isn’t as good, you need a hearing aid. It’s a bad business getting old and I would advise you not to do it if you can avoid it. It doesn’t have a romantic quality.

Will you ever stop making films?

I simply enjoy working. Where else could I develop ambition? As an artist, you are always striving toward an ultimate achievement but never seem to reach it. You shoot a film, and the result could have always been better. You try again, and fail once more. In some ways I find it enjoyable. You never lose sight of your goal. I don’t do my job to make money or to break box office records, I simply try things out. What would happen if I were to achieve perfection at some point? What would I do then?

quotes:

"The talent for being happy is appreciating and liking what you have, instead of what you don't have."

"If you're not failing every now and again, it's a sign you're not doing anything very innovative."

"It seemed the world was divided into good and bad people. The good ones slept better while the bad ones seemed to enjoy the waking hours much more."

"I am thankful for laughter, except when milk comes out of my nose."

"When I was kidnapped, my parents snapped into action. They rented out my room."

"The difference between sex and love is that sex relieves tension and love causes it."
"Love is the answer, but while you are waiting for the answer, sex raises some pretty good questions."
"I'm such a good lover because I practice a lot on my own."

"To you, I'm an atheist. To God, I'm the loyal opposition."
"If you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans."

personally i think he's INTp, but i have a poor sample of INTp people.. what confuses me is when an INTp seems socially able.

Also trying to place his seeming dismissal of the matter of his current wife being his former partner's adopted daughter.

I find highly artistic people in general are hard to type at first because they are all about conveying some type of inner experience to a larger audience, and this sort of lays on top of their type as if it were a SEI or IEI subtype.

What ILI artists and public people often do is turn their shyness and social ineptitude or unease into a kind of comedy act. That wouldn't work for most SEEs, for instance, because they aren't naturally shy or 'nerdy'. In the video were he plays the clarinet, Woody Allen repeatedly mentions that he is nervous and that the audience shouldn't expect too much from his playing. He sort of plays a victim and protects himself from rejection by making sure the audience feels sorry for him. Mr. Bean does something similar. I can't imagine a ILE playing that out well or in that particular way.

It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Me and my INFp sister totally hate the guy. He just never makes good jokes. All of his jokes make me want to rip his head off for being so annoying. His movies are negative and depressing, the characters in his movies are pathetic and sad. Whatever he is, I think he's nowhere near Beta!

Lol Kristiina that has always been my take on Allen too if I am honest. He may have a moment here or there but overall his movies are just annoying and depressing >_<

Fwiw I think Allen is INTp rather than INTj (Balzac rather than Robespierre), as ime INTj's have a more positive sense of humour and are looking for positive Fe rather than take satisfaction from miserable environments as Allen does.

i am always confused when people say that Fe is necessarily about positive emotions. Trying to affect the mood of others might be Fe though? I think ENFj or INFps are good at depicting a feeling or mood accurately, and its not a positive one a lot of the time.

i am always confused when people say that Fe is necessarily about positive emotions. Trying to affect the mood of others might be Fe though? I think ENFj or INFps are good at depicting a feeling or mood accurately, and its not a positive one a lot of the time.

That is true. Ingmar Bergman may well have been INFp, and he was a (I'd say) psychotic director sometimes breaking down his actors before building them up according to his wishes again. He is infamous for his mind games with his actors and people close to him, his loved ones even. His movies are orgies in negative Fe and Fi, in angst and depression. His best movies are great art, I cannot deny that, I do think very highly of Fanny and Alexander and The Seventh Seal. But I don't like Bergman the person in the least. And his obsessive and incessant rooting about in negative Fe is very off-putting to me.

Me and my INFp sister totally hate the guy. He just never makes good jokes. All of his jokes make me want to rip his head off for being so annoying. His movies are negative and depressing, the characters in his movies are pathetic and sad. Whatever he is, I think he's nowhere near Beta!

Originally Posted by Wittmont

Lol Kristiina that has always been my take on Allen too if I am honest. He may have a moment here or there but overall his movies are just annoying and depressing >_<

Fwiw I think Allen is INTp rather than INTj (Balzac rather than Robespierre), as ime INTj's have a more positive sense of humour and are looking for positive Fe rather than take satisfaction from miserable environments as Allen does.

He is a miserable Gamma git

~~

On top of that, why would they like him any less as an ILI than an LII?

Because of the intertype relations. But puzzingly, Kristiina has got this in her signature;

Originally Posted by Kristiina's signature

Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

So I guess he is neither INTp, INTj or ENTp, but he is in fact an SLI.

It just seemed odd to me that these beta NF's that have posted in the thread have dismissed him in such a way. But yeah, it's true, Ezra can still like him because he is SLE and he would be his semi-dual (if he was ILI). In any case, I'm pretty sure he is Ixxp. If not beta, then gamma or delta. I also watched a documentary that portrayed his recent adventure as a musician, and he acts like a kid sometimes when he doesn't want to give a performance. In the part I am specifically referring to, he was doing the typical "faking being ill" that kids do to not go to school, or something. And this ties in with a recent thread that described how SLI's are prone to do that.

That's pretty much my line of thought too. xkj220, I'd tell you to shut the fuck up if I wasn't a nice person.

Oh please, don't be so intimidating. These harsh words combined with the implicit maliciousness of your avatar are making me shiver...

And I couldn't like him if he was Alpha NT?

Of course, you can like/dislike anybody, but this is socionics, and assuming there is any sort of truth to the concept that you can predict how two people are going to get along depending on their "types" (which is all pretty strange and arguable), things are supposed to play out in a way or another.

You need to have some sort of data so you can go on. I am making the assumption here that the user Kristiina is correctly typed as ENFj (and I contrasted via Niffweed's "userlist comparison"). She seems to prefer ILIs to her LSI duals (and puzzingly enough, this already trumps the idea that people prefer always their duals to anything else), but at the same time she doesn't like woody allen in any way. As I think he is either ILI or SLI (and it has been confirmed by several users), the following options/uncertainties arise: a. I am not typing him correctly. b. The sole change from ILI to SLI is a big deal and is determinate in making an EIE like or not like an xLI (if he is SLI). c. Kristiina is not typed correctly, and she is SEE or IEE or something else. d. Liking or not liking anybody, or their films/humor/etc, is not correlated to type. e. other.

Anyways, I could continue over all the variables that introduce uncertainty here, but it's not worth it. Intuitive leap; I think he is SLI (which is one type that is commonly mistyped with LII or ILE).

I found the interview pretty funny, but it grew boring over time. His movies produce the same effect on me.

Anyways, this stuff is all I can think about whenever I think of Woody Allen.

To be honest, it's not that bad when you read this:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Starting around 1980, Allen began a 12-year relationship with actress Mia Farrow, who had leading roles in several of his movies from 1982 to 1992. Farrow and Allen never married, but they adopted two children together: Dylan Farrow (who changed her name to Eliza and is now known as Malone) and Moshe Farrow (now known as Moses); they also had one biological child, Satchel Farrow (now known as Ronan Seamus Farrow). Allen did not adopt any of Farrow's other biological and adopted children, including Soon-Yi Farrow Previn (the adopted daughter of Farrow and André Previn, now known as Soon-Yi Previn). Allen and Farrow separated in 1992 after Farrow discovered nude photographs that Allen had taken of Soon-Yi. In her autobiography, What Falls Away (New York: Doubleday, 1997), Farrow says that Allen admitted to a relationship with Soon-Yi.

After Allen and Farrow separated, a long public legal battle for the custody of their three children began. During the proceedings, Farrow alleged that Allen had sexually molested their adopted daughter Dylan, who was then seven years old. The judge eventually concluded that the sex abuse charges were inconclusive,[52] but called Allen's conduct with Soon-Yi "grossly inappropriate." She called the report of the team that investigated the issue "sanitized and, therefore, less credible," and added that she had "reservations about the reliability of the report." Farrow ultimately won the custody battle over their children. Allen was denied visitation rights with Malone and could see Ronan only under supervision. Moses, who was then 14, chose not to see Allen.

In a 2005 Vanity Fair interview,[53] Allen estimated that, despite the scandal's damage to his reputation, Farrow's discovery of Allen's attraction to Soon-Yi Previn, by accidentally finding nude photographs of her, was "just one of the fortuitous events, one of the great pieces of luck in my life. [...] It was a turning point for the better." Of his relationship with Farrow, he said, "I'm sure there are things that I might have done differently. [...] Probably in retrospect I should have bowed out of that relationship much earlier than I did."

That site you directed us to is clearly against Woody Allen.

Well, that and his sniveling, whiny, pathetic demeanor.

Snivelling and pathetic are harsh words; I'd disagree. I can see why some people might see him as whiny. Joy's elitism and aristocracy finally shows up!

Originally Posted by xkj220

Oh please, don't be so intimidating. These harsh words combined with the implicit maliciousness of your avatar are making me shiver...

Ahhh, that's not my intention at all!

Those words sound right for Christopher Walken.

d. Liking or not liking anybody, or their films/humor/etc, is not correlated to type.

This is the right answer. But, don't worry, I've not forgotten what you said:

Of course, you can like/dislike anybody, but this is socionics, and assuming there is any sort of truth to the concept that you can predict how two people are going to get along depending on their "types" (which is all pretty strange and arguable), things are supposed to play out in a way or another.

I like Slacker Mom. Doesn't mean I could have a good relationship with her. On the contrary, I think it would be pretty bad (not just because she has kids and is older than me).

Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

I think there's some relationship between liking a comedian's humor or not based on type, but not a 100% relationship. I don't like Jim Carrey, generally, but I do like Adam Sandler. Though I haven't thought much about their types. I'll have to think more about this. Maybe that would be a good thread on its own - humor, comedians, type, etc.

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

woody allen rules. watch love and death, it's one of my favorite movies. i think he is NT, maybe even ISTp. i don't know, he's hard to type. some of his serious movies are really good too. anyone watch match point? it was one of the best suspense movies i've ever seen.

Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.