We have tried to compare Gengar and Mismagius. Yes, we already know that Gengar is faster and stronger, we know that Mismagius cannot make the jump over those 108-ponies, we know that it lacks Focus Blast.
It may sound stupid, but my sister wants to know how to make a set that differs from Gengar. You can bash me later for even bringing it up.

Mismagius is distinct from Gengar by two moves: Nasty Plot and Thunder Wave.

Not having access to Focus Blast is indeed a downer so we have to see if HP Fighting can accomplish similar feats; at least we can allow ourselves the speed drop because of the trollish speed. At +2 it cannot OHKO full health s-def Heatran, Jirachi and Scizor (well, 50% with SR and Thunderbolt, 100% with Thunder), which is bad. The OHKOs on every Tyranitar is nice however (need for SR for the s-def ones). Otherwise anything slower (not walls) can be OHKOed. Terrakion is not good for it, but it may take a hit form Keldeo (or three in sun) and OHKO with Thunderbolt. Unfortunately we will be pretty much dead after a Hurricane from LO-Tornadus-T. Setting up is a bit more difficult. It's immunities will prove useful, but we don't have many resistances. Setting up works on choice locked mon, s-def Heatran outside of sun, Keldeo in sun, special attacking Landorus without Psychic.
I have just noticed that Mismagius is actually the second fastest Nasty Plot sweeper. Azelf has better offensive stats (screw it, Gengar), but has a much harder time to set up instead because of its lower special defense.

With Thunder Wave a support set comes in mind - only shared by Froslass and Drifblim. Because of the low HP we would be forces to forgo speed to form enough bulk - not that it would hurt too much because it would deal low damage anyway. The main issue for me is not being able to OHKO Latios without LO. Without boosts your offensive presence is basicly nil: You barely get a 3HKO on Scarf-Toed, after SR; you even only 3HKO it with 252 and Modest nature. The reason I cannot get warm with this one is that it is overshadowed by Jellicent in every aspect but Thunder Wave. Jelli can Recover, has a second STAB to threaten certain spinner (Donphan, Forretress), and a typing to cockblock Scizor.

Why am I doing this? I want your opinion, an overview of what might work and what does not work in OU. Or mon that overshadow the respective sets. Hopefully I haven't forestalled too much work.

I need a set for heatran thats bulky enough to take a hit, can do a little support (bar stealh rocks), and can dish a little damage so it cannot be set up on. I dont want to take the fully specially defensive (its a dead weight on my team) and i cant use completely offensive as i need to stick around for a good portion of the battle. Is this set viable?

I need a set for heatran thats bulky enough to take a hit, can do a little support (bar stealh rocks), and can dish a little damage so it cannot be set up on. I dont want to take the fully specially defensive (its a dead weight on my team) and i cant use completely offensive as i need to stick around for a good portion of the battle. Is this set viable?

The HP distribution still probably won't get you anywhere. Maybe you should actually put EVs on Def or Sp. Def. Maybe you should divide HP into 65/65 Def and Sp. Def.

Once you're done with your EVs, the moves which I suggest would be Fire Blast over Flamethrower, as it has higher base power. Since your Heatran would be able to take a hit, it can afford to miss one Fire Blast and then knock out your opponent. Because powerful threats might not be knocked out with Flamethrower, but probably can be destroyed using Fire Blast.
So I'd suggest - Fire Blast, HP Ice, Will O Wisp and Toxic.

I need a set for heatran thats bulky enough to take a hit, can do a little support (bar stealh rocks), and can dish a little damage so it cannot be set up on. I dont want to take the fully specially defensive (its a dead weight on my team) and i cant use completely offensive as i need to stick around for a good portion of the battle. Is this set viable?

I have a question about priority. Lets say Salamence gets +6 in speed is he fast enough to bypass or out speed any +1 priority moves by slower Pokemon or will +1 priority moves always hit Salamence no matter how many boost he gets?

I have a question about priority. Lets say Salamence gets +6 in speed is he fast enough to bypass or out speed any +1 priority moves by slower Pokemon or will +1 priority moves always hit Salamence no matter how many boost he gets?

I've been considering that... my only problem is the ev spread. should i max it all the way for spa, or split the evs with defenses and spa and max speed?

Click to expand...

With the speed EVs, you will outspeed all normal non scarf Politoed. You can actually use it as a anti lead against Politoed if you feel lucky and set up Sun in its face while it tries to Scald or Surf you, then fire off a Solarbeam. Try and adjust your SpA EVs to nab the KO and toss the rest into HP if you want a bit more bulk.

With the speed EVs, you will outspeed all normal non scarf Politoed. You can actually use it as a anti lead against Politoed if you feel lucky and set up Sun in its face while it tries to Scald or Surf you, then fire off a Solarbeam. Try and adjust your SpA EVs to nab the KO and toss the rest into HP if you want a bit more bulk.

the only way i can ko it is with LO (and even then, there's a chance it wont be KOd), but air balloon is necessary for taking ground moves and getting around things like dugtrio and other heatran (unless something has happened that those two. Since i cant ko politoed on the first shot, heatran will die, and he can be pretty important later on since he takes the teams fire weakenesses alongside latias.

I'm still stuck on the ev spread :/ on another note, is it important to run max speed and spa on the sunny day set, or can it be made a little more bulky, but still fast?

the only way i can ko it is with LO (and even then, there's a chance it wont be KOd), but air balloon is necessary for taking ground moves and getting around things like dugtrio and other heatran (unless something has happened that those two. Since i cant ko politoed on the first shot, heatran will die, and he can be pretty important later on since he takes the teams fire weakenesses alongside latias.

I'm still stuck on the ev spread :/ on another note, is it important to run max speed and spa on the sunny day set, or can it be made a little more bulky, but still fast?

Click to expand...

Once sunny day is up, water moves are halved. Unless that Politoed is a mad prediction genius, it's going to use a water type, not Focus Blast. Also, they will usually switch out if you catch them on the switch with Sunny Day.

Once sunny day is up, water moves are halved. Unless that Politoed is a mad prediction genius, it's going to use a water type, not Focus Blast. Also, they will usually switch out if you catch them on the switch with Sunny Day.

Click to expand...

i forgot about switching *facepalm* so what benchmark of SpA should i be aiming for? rather, what percentage of hp should i be aiming for when fighting politoed or tyranitar?

Just use the damage calculator to pin point the numbers. I'm on my phone at the moment, so I'm a bit hampered on resources.

Just make sure you don't use Solarbeam after sunny day if Tyranitar isn't on the field right then or he will switch in and kill you with Superpower. Trust me.

Click to expand...

Okay. I did a little testing. I don't know if I'm right, but I'm assuming taking 70.2% of it's health away from toed and ttar at maximum is enough to dent it, right? (or is the percentage lower so I can save up on those precious evs).

there's no need to outspeed timid politoed - the only timid toeds are scarfed and you aren't gonna outrun those anyway for obvious reasons (similar to how the only jolly tyranitar are scarfed). use a modest nature and adjust benchmarks accordingly.

uh and you are running this on a sun team right? the whole point of this heatran set is to support sun by trapping opposing weather inducers; therefore ninetales should not be a concern, where as hitting opposing heatran is fairly important

there's no need to outspeed timid politoed - the only timid toeds are scarfed and you aren't gonna outrun those anyway for obvious reasons (similar to how the only jolly tyranitar are scarfed). use a modest nature and adjust benchmarks accordingly.

uh and you are running this on a sun team right? the whole point of this heatran set is to support sun by trapping opposing weather inducers; therefore ninetales should not be a concern, where as hitting opposing heatran is fairly important

Click to expand...

the only reason i run timid is to catch brelooms and scizors who think theyll outspeed and spore me... otherwise, theyd kill me good. outrunning gothitelle, dragonite and rotom-w (according to the analysis), non speed natured 252 spe gyarados and tying with other heatran is also kind of nice. also, the analysis on smogon says timid over modest... otherwise, timid is pretty useless

and im running this on my spontaneous weatherless anti-metagame team, which has actually had mild success thus far.

is it worth picking timid in this current metagame?

so would this set be better or the one i listed before?

Heatran@ Air Balloon
Modest, 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe (i feel like taking 4 evs out of speed for hp, but then speed tying with other modest heatrans is nice.. just dont want to waste evs)
-Sunny Day
-Fire Blast
-Solarbeam
-Earth Power

timid is only useful for outrunning jolly base 70s and adamant dragonite / mamoswine, if your team handles both of those well then go ahead and use modest, the extra power boost is sweet.

also use this ev spread if you're going to use modest:

Heatran: 12 HP | 252 SAtk | 244 Spd

that lets you outspeed timid gothitelle which is actually a reasonable threat, also you'll outspeed most sdef celebi, adamant loom, other stuff that's less relevant. a tiny bit of extra hp is cool, i can recall situations where i've been using a pokemon with 8 or 12 hp evs instead of 4 and lived an attack by 1 hp.

@RabidChipmunk:

what you say is true, breloom's access to spore in particular can make it a more favorable choice for a subpunch user. however, toxicroak does have higher base speed and a complete immunity to water-type attacks to contend with. this means that you can set up all over a choiced pokemon locked into a water-type attack, as well as standard politoed and tentacruel, among other things, without a care in the world - whereas standard subpunch breloom's sub will be popped by even rain-boosted scald from either of the aforementioned pokemon. take these facts into consideration

timid is only useful for outrunning jolly base 70s and adamant dragonite / mamoswine, if your team handles both of those well then go ahead and use modest, the extra power boost is sweet.

also use this ev spread if you're going to use modest:

Heatran: 12 HP | 252 SAtk | 244 Spd

that lets you outspeed timid gothitelle which is actually a reasonable threat, also you'll outspeed most sdef celebi, adamant loom, other stuff that's less relevant. a tiny bit of extra hp is cool, i can recall situations where i've been using a pokemon with 8 or 12 hp evs instead of 4 and lived an attack by 1 hp.

Click to expand...

Do you mean 248 speed? 244 is a speed tie I think iirc. And is putting 4 sdef evs using po still viable stop stop genesect in its tracks? Its still not banned from po on ou iirc. But in any case, thanks for the information :)

there's no need to outspeed timid politoed - the only timid toeds are scarfed and you aren't gonna outrun those anyway for obvious reasons (similar to how the only jolly tyranitar are scarfed). use a modest nature and adjust benchmarks accordingly.

uh and you are running this on a sun team right? the whole point of this heatran set is to support sun by trapping opposing weather inducers; therefore ninetales should not be a concern, where as hitting opposing heatran is fairly important

Click to expand...

Sunny day Tran is very antiweather and anti metagame currently, seeing as it stops Rain and Sand, the most common teams out there. It can function well on a Sun team also, and I've used it on both, but the surprise factor of sunny day lure Tran is just amazing, especially versus Rain.