He's going to revive the priesthood by allowing married priests for the first time in over a thousand years?

He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

No, he's going to try to wrest control of the Church from the Italians who over-whelming occupy the power structure, the bureaucracy, the Curia, and even the College of Cardinals.

Lots of luck, Pape. You've chosen a worthy goal. It's been good knowing you. You'd have better luck fighting the Mafia, not that there isn't a fair amount of over-lap between the Italian power base in the Church and the Mafia everywhere else in Italy.

So this is why Saint Malarky decided you would be the last Pope. Verily, your reward awaits you in Heaven, because their will be precious little peace for you on Earth.

As a Catholic, I welcome this - primarily because it will eventually allow for some changes.

While brantgoose can't possibly understand why this is a big deal, it's a first step towards the democratization of the church on a worldwide level. For a standing Pope to have an "advisory committee" is a huge deal. The Roman Curia has held power, almost without interruption, for 2000 years. It's like a bad DMV you can't get rid of.

brantgoose:Verily, your reward awaits you in Heaven, because their will be precious little peace for you on Earth.

It was revenge for Ratzinger, and a lot of other things. That's that. There was nothing we could do about it. Ratz was a made man, Francis wasn't. We had to sit still and take it. It was among the Italians. It was real greaseball shiat.

brantgoose:He's going to drag the Church kicking and screaming into the Enlightenment?

Not for anything, but among the Christian denominations out there, the Roman Catholic Church is probably one of the most accepting of the principles of science and mathematics out there, especially compared to their Protestant and evangelical brethren. The Vatican has endorsed evolution to a higher degree than many other Christian denominations, including the ones who literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. The Vatican also has an official astronomer and observatory, plus the Pontifical Academy of Sciences uses the world's leading scientists to advise the Pope in matters of science.

The Church has changed a little since the trial of Galileo and it'd take a fool not to see that.

Lsherm:As a Catholic, I welcome this - primarily because it will eventually allow for some changes.

While brantgoose can't possibly understand why this is a big deal, it's a first step towards the democratization of the church on a worldwide level. For a standing Pope to have an "advisory committee" is a huge deal. The Roman Curia has held power, almost without interruption, for 2000 years. It's like a bad DMV you can't get rid of.

Gratuitous insults to brntgoose aside, I hear you. This is indeed, as Joe Biden would put it, A Big Farking Deal. I don't see reform happening as quickly or as widely as you seem to, but it's definitely a first step to something more. What that something may be, I'm not particularly optinmistic about. I'll get optimistic when I see him taking real, tangible, outward-facing, results-orients steps toward reform.

Sadly, I think any attempt at real reform at this stage will result in another schism, the like of which also hasn't been seen for 1,000 years. The Sedevacantists are real and they're gaining traction in the USA already. There are what I would call "fundamentalist" Catholic factions all over. I can see a definite split happening over reform. I can also see a split happening if it doesn't happen, though.

Francis inherited a Church in crisis. I have serious doubts that it can be saved at the point.

Well, he deserved it for a simple minded Fark Catholic bashing comment from the get-go.

Benevolent Misanthrope:The Sedevacantists are real and they're gaining traction in the USA already. There are what I would call "fundamentalist" Catholic factions all over. I can see a definite split happening over reform. I can also see a split happening if it doesn't happen, though.

The Sedevacantists are small blocs without any power, money, or plan. There won't be another Great Schism primarily because the Protestant Reformation already took care of people who didn't care to be part of the church.

The real trick to reforming the church at this point is maintaining the organization while removing the stronghold the Italians have on it. It can be done - Italians go to church less than Americans - but maintaining the organization is key. The Curia was supposed to provide that consistency, but instead it's become a boondoggle for church bureaucrats who have no interest in changing. It sounds like Francis is starting to reform the underlying bureaucracy of the church, which is how real change happens later.

If there's any break, it's going to be from Europeans, and they care less about the church than the US, South America, and Africa. And honestly, at this point, they probably don't care that much.

At least he's trying. No other Pope has attempted something this significant in the past 100 years, and that includes Vatican II. This is reform at the heart of the church.

Well, he deserved it for a simple minded Fark Catholic bashing comment from the get-go.

Benevolent Misanthrope: The Sedevacantists are real and they're gaining traction in the USA already. There are what I would call "fundamentalist" Catholic factions all over. I can see a definite split happening over reform. I can also see a split happening if it doesn't happen, though.

The Sedevacantists are small blocs without any power, money, or plan. There won't be another Great Schism primarily because the Protestant Reformation already took care of people who didn't care to be part of the church.

The real trick to reforming the church at this point is maintaining the organization while removing the stronghold the Italians have on it. It can be done - Italians go to church less than Americans - but maintaining the organization is key. The Curia was supposed to provide that consistency, but instead it's become a boondoggle for church bureaucrats who have no interest in changing. It sounds like Francis is starting to reform the underlying bureaucracy of the church, which is how real change happens later.

If there's any break, it's going to be from Europeans, and they care less about the church than the US, South America, and Africa. And honestly, at this point, they probably don't care that much.

At least he's trying. No other Pope has attempted something this significant in the past 100 years, and that includes Vatican II. This is reform at the heart of the church.

Paul VI had an advisory committee. On birth control. When they came back and said the Church could and should allow birth control, he ignored them. They didn't say what he thought. And Paul was a reformer. Come to think of it, every pope in the last 50 years has been hailed by one faction or another as a reformer.

I think you should go back and read the notes and documents from Vatican II. Announcing that he intends to have an advisory committee formed is nowhere near the changes in the church that came (past tense, notice) out of Vatican II. Even though most of them have been watered down or simply ignored over the years.

Well, he deserved it for a simple minded Fark Catholic bashing comment from the get-go.

Benevolent Misanthrope: The Sedevacantists are real and they're gaining traction in the USA already. There are what I would call "fundamentalist" Catholic factions all over. I can see a definite split happening over reform. I can also see a split happening if it doesn't happen, though.

The Sedevacantists are small blocs without any power, money, or plan. There won't be another Great Schism primarily because the Protestant Reformation already took care of people who didn't care to be part of the church.

The real trick to reforming the church at this point is maintaining the organization while removing the stronghold the Italians have on it. It can be done - Italians go to church less than Americans - but maintaining the organization is key. The Curia was supposed to provide that consistency, but instead it's become a boondoggle for church bureaucrats who have no interest in changing. It sounds like Francis is starting to reform the underlying bureaucracy of the church, which is how real change happens later.

If there's any break, it's going to be from Europeans, and they care less about the church than the US, South America, and Africa. And honestly, at this point, they probably don't care that much.

At least he's trying. No other Pope has attempted something this significant in the past 100 years, and that includes Vatican II. This is reform at the heart of the church.

Paul VI had an advisory committee. On birth control. When they came back and said the Church could and should allow birth control, he ignored them. They didn't say what he thought. And Paul was a reformer. Come to think of it, every pope in the last 50 years has been hailed by one faction or another as a reformer.

I think you should go back and read the notes and documents from Vatican II. Announcing that he i ...

While it's all conjecture, the birth control advisory committee was single issue. What Francis is proposing is a committee on governance, which is a huge deal.

This is big. Combined with his warnings about church hypocrisy (Link), and his professed wish of a "poor church, for the poor," Pope Francis is probably paving the way to dismantling the Vatican's wealth.

He's going to revive the priesthood by allowing married priests for the first time in over a thousand years?

They've been allowing "already" married men to become Priest again for about 20 years. I know 2 of them.

Um no....

The only exceptions to that are Deacons (who will never be full fledged priests) and if they come from priesthoods of other religions. Men who enter the priesthood after their wife's death is allowed. My brothers pastor wife passed away.

Captain Dan:This is big. Combined with his warnings about church hypocrisy (Link), and his professed wish of a "poor church, for the poor," Pope Francis is probably paving the way to dismantling the Vatican's wealth.

C18H27NO3:I didn't RTWholeFA. Did he make not molesting children the #1 priority or is there other stuff at the forefront?

This may very well be part of it. The biggest problem has been the "Old school" organization of dealing with scandal. Ship the priest off to another part of the church, and cover up. Some even believe that there is a ring of pedophiles high up in the church.

C18H27NO3:I didn't RTWholeFA. Did he make not molesting children the #1 priority or is there other stuff at the forefront?

No idea whether that issue is the top one, but at least one of his appointees suggests that it's on his mind.

FTA: The remaining members of the group were each chosen to represent one of the six continents. They include Cardinal Sean O'Malley, who imposed a "zero tolerance" policy on clerical sex abuse in his archdiocese of Boston. . .