If Skyfall is doing well critically then I like to think a little bit of that praise is due to TDK for being used as an influence on Skyfall. That has to be a first, too. Has a comic book movie ever influenced a major franchise outside of it's genre before?

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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

In all honesty, this was probably the most satisfying film I've seen this year. Simply excellent. And yes, there are similarities to The Dark Knight, but they certainly aren't what makes the movie so excellent. This is the Bond film I was waiting for after Casino Royale. Skyfall delivers.

Skyfall was a consistently great film, but to me, the best moments in TDKR outshone Skyfall's. There are few things in Skyfall that can be deemed as really 'weak' in absolute terms whereas TDKR's quality graph would look like the volatility index in the S&P 500 dailies - lots of amazing highs but about just as many damning lows as well. Despite that, it is TDKR for me by a hair. No other film I ever watched made me feel the way it did, both unspeakable joy and gut-wrenching disappointment at the same time. It certainly was a more memorable experience and after successive viewings, in spite of all of TDKR's failings I have come to appreciate its finer aspects. TDKR is, more often than not, the bolder and more ambitious film. It is an incredibly and deeply flawed masterpiece, but a masterpiece nonetheless.

Skyfall was a consistently great film, but to me, the best moments in TDKR outshone Skyfall's. There are few things in Skyfall that can be deemed as really 'weak' in absolute terms whereas TDKR's quality graph would look like the volatility index in the S&P 500 dailies - lots of amazing highs but about just as many damning lows as well. Despite that, it is TDKR for me by a hair. No other film I ever watched made me feel the way it did, both unspeakable joy and gut-wrenching disappointment at the same time. It certainly was a more memorable experience and after successive viewings, in spite of all of TDKR's failings I have come to appreciate its finer aspects. TDKR is, more often than not, the bolder and more ambitious film. It is an incredibly and deeply flawed masterpiece, but a masterpiece nonetheless.

Y'know, this is one of the best descriptions of TDKR I've read. While I'm hesitant to call it a masterpiece, I do agree with everything else you've said (sans the Skyfall stuff cause I haven't seen it yet).

How true is this! If your movie isn't doing so hot with RT, you will flack the website and say it doesn't matter. If your movie is doing so well on RT, you want to flaunt the website so much.

I have always hated RT, even when it shows TDK is a masterpiece of a film or when it shows that Watchmen isn't a great film when it is. RT is just an example of how fickle critics can be, professional or not.

Skyfall was a consistently great film, but to me, the best moments in TDKR outshone Skyfall's. There are few things in Skyfall that can be deemed as really 'weak' in absolute terms whereas TDKR's quality graph would look like the volatility index in the S&P 500 dailies - lots of amazing highs but about just as many damning lows as well. Despite that, it is TDKR for me by a hair. No other film I ever watched made me feel the way it did, both unspeakable joy and gut-wrenching disappointment at the same time. It certainly was a more memorable experience and after successive viewings, in spite of all of TDKR's failings I have come to appreciate its finer aspects. TDKR is, more often than not, the bolder and more ambitious film. It is an incredibly and deeply flawed masterpiece, but a masterpiece nonetheless.

Masterpiece? The third act alone is enough for me to believe TDKR was far from a "masterpiece". Sure it isn't "garbage" like some have called it, but it definitely isn't a masterpiece either.

If Skyfall is doing well critically then I like to think a little bit of that praise is due to TDK for being used as an influence on Skyfall. That has to be a first, too. Has a comic book movie ever influenced a major franchise outside of it's genre before?

I was hoping that would be the focus of the thread. I can't think if there have been any other comic films to inspire major changes to outside franchises. The Bourne films also seemed to influence the Bond series.

I think flawed masterpiece works for me. Obviously the "masterpiece" part is very subjective, but the funny thing I've noticed is that there's no consensus on what the major flaws are, or strengths for that matter (except maybe cinematography...most seem to agree this is a major strength. Even the best performance in the film is in dispute.). I've seen various people cite Acts 1, 2 and 3 as the source of the film's problems, just as I've hear others praise each of the 3 acts as the film's strongest. Similarly to how you'll hear arguments for Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises being the strongest film of the trilogy. Which I consider Acts 1, 2 and 3 of a larger movie.

And yeah, it's cool that TDK influenced Skyfall. I always thought there was somewhat of a parallel between BB and Casino Royale, both being modern and gritty re-imaginings of their title character (that also were also origin tales and attempted to get back in touch with the source material).

Masterpiece? The third act alone is enough for me to believe TDKR was far from a "masterpiece". Sure it isn't "garbage" like some have called it, but it definitely isn't a masterpiece either.

Agreed. It's got too many flaws for me to call it a masterpiece. It's a good movie.

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Originally Posted by JackWhite

Interesting, because most consider the third act in TDKR to be the strongest third act in the trilogy.

Oddly enough, I prefer TDK's third act, lol.

Seconded. The final clashes with Joker, Batman taking out the SWAT teams to save the hostages, Gordon's family being held hostage by Two Face, and Batman's sacrifice for Gotham are more compelling to me than the chase the bomb finale, Batman's fake death, and "Robin".

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullets

I was hoping that would be the focus of the thread. I can't think if there have been any other comic films to inspire major changes to outside franchises.

Exactly. A testament to the greatness that is TDK. It really broke some barriers. As Sam Raimi said, it upped the ante for the superhero genre.

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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

Personally, most of my biggest problems with the film are in the 3rd act. I think I'm in the rare group that considers the 2nd act the best.

I'm the same way about the first act - I absolutely loved the buildup to Bruce returning first to the real world as Bruce Wayne, and then finally as The Batman. Not to mention the Bruce and Selina stuff.

I'm still not sure which act I feel is the strongest. But seeing the film a few more times on Blu-Ray will surely help.