The draft is over, the Pats have a pretty good lineup of players in its stable and Brady is on the mend. What don't we have to get excited about other than the start of the season?

First, I don't want to hear ANY mention of a possible unde... I'll stop there! Imagine the hunger that is in Brady's gut? If we could say it, a season for redemption from the disappointment of '07 which could not occur after Brady went down in game 1 of the '08 season? Will the defense have more to prove? Maroney, supposedly real healthy now, going to be the back we expected like the glimmer shown in the playoffs of '07? All the possibilities, aren't they exciting? The body slams we will experience from the trolls on this board and the body slams we give back! OH, to be a PATS fan!!

Yeah, I'm excited for the season. I'm hear in Southern California amongst a lot of Charger fans. I hope to talk a lot of smack to them this year. Luckily, there are two other Pats fans on my same block; all from the Northeast like myself. What are the odds... This season looks like it could be a better team than the 07 team "on paper". Do not interpret that to mean I think they will go undefeated this year. I think a lot of stars have to align to do that.

So while I am optimistic, we all learned last year that one play can ruin your day. If the key players stay healthy, we're good. If at least a few of the new guys turn out well, we're good. If our rookie class doesn't pan out as we hope, or we take some big injuries, then all bets are off. Despite the "IF's", I feel better going into this season than I have the past two seasons, and I felt pretty good going into the last 2 seasons.

Don't see how we are better than 2007. Then we had 5 veteran linebackers, now we have one (and one part timer in Bruschi). We had an all-pro LCB and a proven RCB, now we have two free agents who don't know the system, two second years, and a rookie. We had one of the best SS of the decade then, now we have two FS, one of whom is average, the other is rising, and a rookie SS. We had the same offense, but it was two years younger, and it had Dante Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney instead of Joey Galloway and whatshisname.

The one good thing about '07 and the O we have now, is that in '07, Stallworth was not a good fit.. he fell through the cracks, in a manner of speaking. He didn't have a clearly defined role, being somewhere between deep field and slot. However I think BB got it right with Galloway, because he is a deep threat and will not be double-teamed since Moss will draw that. So now we have two deep threats and one slot threat which I think works better than one deep, one slot, and one intermediate.

Also, I think the TE situation is better now because Baker is a competent blocker and a multiple threat option. We also have more vested competition at the other TE and whoever ends up there will be an asset one way or another.

And yes, Brady is coming off surgery, but he has had an entire year off which means he is finally 100% where the rest of his body is concerned. His ankle has been giving him problem on and off.

Obviously we will have to see. No doubt we improve from last year, but even though we didn't win the Super Bowl, the '07 team was one of the greatest ever. This team has great potential, especially if we get Greg Ellis, and I can't wait for football season.

Don't see how we are better than 2007. Then we had 5 veteran linebackers, now we have one (and one part timer in Bruschi). We had an all-pro LCB and a proven RCB, now we have two free agents who don't know the system, two second years, and a rookie. We had one of the best SS of the decade then, now we have two FS, one of whom is average, the other is rising, and a rookie SS. We had the same offense, but it was two years younger, and it had Dante Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney instead of Joey Galloway and whatshisname. And Tom Brady wasn't coming off of major knee surgery.Posted by themightypatriots

BB is the man, the best in the league, and he's done the best with what he's got. It's not his fault that Willie, Ted, Tedy, Rodney, Rosie, and Mike got old. He's found good talent to replace them, but the new talent ain't as good yet. We're still better than every other team, but I'd rather put our 2007 defense (or 2003 or 2004, probably 2006) out there than this defense.

Don't see how we are better than 2007. Then we had 5 veteran linebackers, now we have one (and one part timer in Bruschi). We had an all-pro LCB and a proven RCB, now we have two free agents who don't know the system, two second years, and a rookie. We had one of the best SS of the decade then, now we have two FS, one of whom is average, the other is rising, and a rookie SS. We had the same offense, but it was two years younger, and it had Dante Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney instead of Joey Galloway and whatshisname. And Tom Brady wasn't coming off of major knee surgery.Posted by themightypatriots

The one good thing about '07 and the O we have now, is that in '07, Stallworth was not a good fit.. he fell through the cracks, in a manner of speaking. He didn't have a clearly defined role, being somewhere between deep field and slot. However I think BB got it right with Galloway, because he is a deep threat and will not be double-teamed since Moss will draw that. So now we have two deep threats and one slot threat which I think works better than one deep, one slot, and one intermediate. Also, I think the TE situation is better now because Baker is a competent blocker and a multiple threat option. We also have more vested competition at the other TE and whoever ends up there will be an asset one way or another. And yes, Brady is coming off surgery, but he has had an entire year off which means he is finally 100% where the rest of his body is concerned. His ankle has been giving him problem on and off.Posted by patpscyho

Baker stinks. He has virtually no yards after catch, and helped us out when with the JESTS by fumbling after the catch mor than once. When Ryan gives a guy away and Mangini doesn't want him (Mangini has every retread Ryan didn't keep), you know this guy is worthless.

The one good thing about '07 and the O we have now, is that in '07, Stallworth was not a good fit.. he fell through the cracks, in a manner of speaking. He didn't have a clearly defined role, being somewhere between deep field and slot. However I think BB got it right with Galloway, because he is a deep threat and will not be double-teamed since Moss will draw that. So now we have two deep threats and one slot threat which I think works better than one deep, one slot, and one intermediate. Also, I think the TE situation is better now because Baker is a competent blocker and a multiple threat option. We also have more vested competition at the other TE and whoever ends up there will be an asset one way or another. And yes, Brady is coming off surgery, but he has had an entire year off which means he is finally 100% where the rest of his body is concerned. His ankle has been giving him problem on and off.Posted by patpscyho

Also, Galloway is washed up. A finesse reciever who is old and lost his speed. Also has knee injuries. He may get cut. How this team is even remotely like 2007 escapes me.

Blowhard bob:Joey Galloway isn't a finesse player he's a burner!He was injured last season at TB so I don't know how effective he will be,but I'm pretty sure BB likes what he saw in the private workout he had before signing with the Patriots.As far as whatshisname is concerned Greg Lewis was a favorite reciever of McNabb in 2006 but fell out of favor someplace along the way.There are others who will vie for playing time at the WR spot you never know who's gonna come out of the pack and steal a spot.As for the TE's I'd say that Smith and Baker bring a much better blocking scheme as they both are noted blocking TE's,Baker is also a red zone threat.Other than these changes I'd say the only area that still needs to be addressed OLB/DE.I would still this team will be a very exciting offensive team.

Baker stinks. He has virtually no yards after catch, and helped us out when with the JESTS by fumbling after the catch mor than once. Posted by BostonBobBlowhard

Bostonbobblowjob,

Before you open your mouth for something else than swallowing, you would do well to look up Baker's stats. He has zero fumbles, zero fumbles lost in 16 games for '08, and only one lost fumble in 3 seasons and 47 RS.

Also, Galloway is washed up. A finesse reciever who is old and lost his speed. Also has knee injuries. He may get cut. How this team is even remotely like 2007 escapes me.Posted by BostonBobBlowhard

Bostonbobblowjob,

There you go again, opening your ugly yap. Didn't your mother tell you to swallow before running your yap? Galloway still runs a 4.3 in the 40, and did so when he came up for Evals and physical at Gillette.

Are you assuming the Patriots are so stupid they would sign him without testing his 40 time?

His '08 stats don't tell the story because he lost playing time to a foot injury and eventually Bryant.

And Rex Ryan trying to build the (very) poor man's Ravens? That team is going to have an OK defense, but nothing smothering like Baltimore, and an anemic offense. He would have been better off resigning Barton on the cheap and keeping a WR.

As composed the New Jersey Jests have taken a step back thanks to him.

I think you underrate the potential Galloway adds. Jabar who eventually beat out the over-rated Stallworth, was a different WR, but if Galloway keeps it healthy he is in fact more dangerous. The mere fact that he ran a 4.3 in camp is astounding and bodes well. Sprinter type WR and like him have long careers because their sprinting speed doesn't depart until they are over 40. If he is over his foot thing, he gives them a legitimate TD threat, that Gaffney (who was a reliable 3rd set of hands) didn't represent.

And yes, while coming in with Asante is better than coming in with CBs who have potnetial, it isn't as much of a mismatch as you make it seem. This is the first CB crew that has me excited since they drafted Samuel and Hobbs and signed Poole in 2003.

And the ILB crew of the 2009 Pats is markedly better than the 2007 Pats. Sorry, but IMO Bruschi has been washed for a few seasons now, and is better as a two down guy like he is now. Even Rodney had lost a step that season. He wasn't playing like a HOFer then, just a good SS. And Sanders has never been a playmaker. Here is what they need to replace from 2007 HOF Harrison:

1 INT, 2 sacks, 68 tackles. I think they can come up with that at SS with the combo of guys they have now.

Don't confuse him with 2003 Harrison who had 3 INT, 3 sacks, 2FF and 127 tackles. Different league and it showed down the stretch.

The real hit is missing 2007 Vrabel and pre-injury Colvin. But I have some hopes that they can resolve that situation with a platoon, or even better the emergence of someone. Maybe the addition of someone like Ellis on the cheap bolsters that.

Plus Richard Seymour spent all of 2007 battling his injury and really didn't get back to his standards until late in the playoffs. And most importantly, which will pay huge dividends down the stretch, they had no alternate big man. Adding Brace makes this the best three man front they have fielded since they had Fork and Taylor. Those big guys get spent quick and it is great having a "spare" 340 pounder sitting on the bench.

Most importantly the team is young, and has some experience. It really has been an "old" defense more or less since 2006. There might be some mistakes in the early going, but I am they will gel and be a fierce unit that isn't winded in the 4th quarter. Which is where NE has been weak the last three seasons.

It is defensive philosphy of being strong up the middle. Just like in baseball the middle is where you place your best defenders because they cover the most ground.

C, SS, 2B, CF is the same as DE/NT, ILB, SS/FS. And having more speed makes them better.

It starts with the 3-man line, and that is better than 2007 by a mile. Healthy Sey. Adding another big man like Brace.

It sits in the middle with ILB. And Mayo and Bruschi/Guyton is better than Seau/Bruschi in 2007.

And Meriweather/Sanders/Chung will do much better in the long haul than Harrison/Sanders. Especially there. Harrison and Sanders *combined* for three picks that season. My guess is that Meriweather doubles that figure himself, and as a unit they probably triple it, or with good development it quadruples.

So yes, there are a couple new questions they didn't have in 2007, but they have also answered three of four questionable parts of that defense admirably.

Also, Galloway is washed up. A finesse reciever who is old and lost his speed. Also has knee injuries. He may get cut. How this team is even remotely like 2007 escapes me.Posted by BostonBobBlowhard

Wow, Bob, you must be a real fun guy to be around. Here we have a real upbeat post where everyone is expressing their excitement for the upcoming season and you jump right in, doing your best to rain on our parade with meaningless, uninformed, negative drivel.

Given that your contributions are lame, weak and unsolicited, why don't you just keep them to your own miserable self?

Stallworth never lived up to his potential. I guess with Brady talent isn't as important as chemistry, and those two didn't have it. A savy veteran like Galloway will probably do better with Brady, but his age makes him a huge question mark - can he last the season? Still, we had Jabar as our #4, definitely better than Greg Lewis (that's his name right?) at #4.

Rodney was pretty good in 2007. Maybe statistically he wasn't spectacular, but I remember him playing well. And he had an interception against Jacksonville in the playoffs. Don't forget he was an excellent anti-TE weapon. Neither Merriweather nor Sanders replace Rodney's physical style of play, and Chung can't be counted on for anything as a rookie.

Linebacker was by far better in 2007 - five of the decade's greats. Rosie, Vrabel, Thomas, and Bruschi/Seau is far better than Thomas, Woods, Mayo, Bruschi/Guyton. Mayo might be better than Bruschi was then, but I would take a fresh Seau in the fourth quarter of any game over Mayo. And with Thomas filling the Ted Johnson role up the middle, Rosie and Vrabel were dynamite outside. Our only proven starters this season are Thomas and Mayo. 2007 was definitely better.

We may be better at DL this season, if Seymour really is healthy. A healthy Seymour, Green, Wilfork, Warren, Brace and Wright would be awesome all season.

Samuel and a healthy Hobbs, with Gay backing them up, were a sure thing in the secondary. We really have no idea how an old timer (Springs) and three youngins, and a 2007 ball-hog will perform.

In short, I don't think there is anyone in their right mind who wouldn't take the 2007 team hands down over what we have today, D-Line notwithstanding.

Another thing to consider, is the overall production from the RB position and the TE position compared to '07. Last Year we had one of the best rushing games in the NFL, averaging around 142 yards a game, true everyone is older now, but Tom brady is back meaning saftey's have to play back more, and if maroney comes back and stays healthy, as well as the addition of Taylor (who is a lot better than lamont jordan) we should be pretty good. The TE positon also got better. Smith and Baker are more proven blockers than Watson and Thomas (who did get better last year), but they also can do double duty as pass catchers, so they open up the ground game and can gets some receptions. Also from the TE you have to think someone like thomas or watson (more likely thomas, he has better hands) would be used more in a 4 wide set to give them a second option over the middle that is a little bit bigger (and so teams have to worry about him to not just welker in the slot). But we really need to wait for the season to unfold inorder to see what we have to look forward too.

Yes I remember teams said they targeted Rodney/Seau/Bruschi in the passing game in 2007 but it didn't work out too well for them if I recall. The most we gave up in the regular season I think was 35 to the Jints, and that included a garbage time TD and a kickoff return.

Our guys now might be able to run faster and not get winded as quickly but that doesn't make them better football players. Maybe in 3 years they will be better football players but I doubt it in 2009. We'll see how they do.

Yeah, my GF told me that. She had nightmares about that stuff when she was a kid, and still worries about her fam over there. But right now, most South Koreans are really wrapped up in the suicide of their Vice President. He was indicted on a handful of charges and punched his own ticket to get out of it.

Curious, because Lee-Myung Bak is less popular there than G.W. was here, but the country is reeling over it right now.

Anyhow.

Stats like who scored what are irrelevant. You should know me by now man.

:-)

That is taken out of context like:

incredibly weak offensive scheduleincredibly potent offense

On almost every non-accumulative metric the defense was lacking. Rushing YPC, Opponent completion percent and efficiency. And every stat that contributes to those stats like TD passes, turnovers, etc, that all are derived from the "core" of a defense.

Ironically the best performance the defense had all season came in the Super Bowl. But even then, they were gassed at the end. Just like in 06.

The other big factor is how well the offense performs. If it does very well, which I assume it will, then it will take a lot of stress off the defense and let them really play themselves into experience.

I am not saying this defense is as good as the 2003-4 defense. No way. Just having Ty Poole and Ty Law alone made that defense impenetrable. Forget about adding Harrison in his prime and Eugene Wilson before he decided to get injured every season. That was one of the best DB crews I have seen on any team ever.

To get to that level, it will take another season of development. And that is optimistic saying that any one of the corners pans out into a sure fire HOF guy like Law is touch and go. But then, I don't think they need that, because the offense is much better than it was those years.

But just looking at it, it is at least as good as the 2007 defense, and potentially better if the unproven players at OLB and CB can play up to where the coaches think they can.

As it has been said, a bunch of times, all players are unproven at some point.

Joshuretree,

I share the optimisn about the offense.

This offense is potentially better as well. It is probably equal at WR and OL, but importantly, is likely much, much superior at TE. The depth and talent of Smith, Baker, Watson is way better than Watson, Brady.

The work that they did there really excites me because it opens up possibilities for formations that the 2007 team never ran. Like a five wide package that features two combo TEs like Smith and Baker so you can disguise if one is going to stay home. That was really impossible with Brady/Watson, because you knew Watson was catching, and Brady had to be blocking because he was a terrible reciever.

There are some valid arguments posted against thinking this year's team could surpass the 2007 team. Hindsight is 20/20 though. It's not like there were no serious question marks going into the 2007 season. Let's rewind to the summer of 07 going up to kickoff:

1. Who knew Welker was going to be such a stud? Who the heck was he?

2. I was "optimistic" about Moss, but certainly didn't "know" he would pan out the way he did.

3. I didn't know Sammy would be as good as he is. (although lost in the Dallas game).

4. Donte was a question mark.

5. Seymour and Troy Brown had injuries and started the season on PUP.

6. Harrison started the year with a 4 game suspension.

7. Basically, Brady was starting out with "almost" a brand new group of receivers.

8. Would Samuel show up? Would he be rusty if he did?

It may be easy to look back and think anyone is crazy for feeling better about the team this year than in the summer of 07, but try to go back to what you were thinking that summer. I can't say that they have more question marks this year than they did in 07. I think our O "may" be as good as in 07, and I like our chances on D better than in 07. Our D in 07 wasn't bad, but it wasn't anything that special either. It was good, but not great. Last year's D wasn't even good when it really mattered. I'll place my bets that the D is improved this year, and maybe even better than in 07. If I'm wrong I'll just eat some crow. I keep crow seasoning handy for just such moments.

I actually think we will be better at WR than in 07. I think people are really underrating how good Joey Galloway is because he's 37. If he stays healthy which I don't think is a big stretch he should put up numbers in the ballpark of 55/800/6.

2001- 16g 52/699/3

2002- 16g 61/908/6

2003- 15g 34/672/2

2004- 10g 33/416/5

2005- 16g 83/1287/10

2006- 16g 62/1057/7

2007- 15g 57/1014/6

Thats 3 straight 1000 yard 6+ TD seasons going into an injury plagued season last year. He still has his speed and injuries haven't been much of an issue for him 6 of his last 8 seasons. Surely he will be as motivated as he ever has been. Since he has a legit chance at a ring, a chance to catch balls from TB, and a chance to be part of a historic offense.

Also I was just having the 07 defense vs this years defense argument with a buddy. I agree that this years defense should be better for all the reasons already mentioned.