I concur John! And though it didn’t go as I personally would’ve have liked, I found it interesting how frequently I am surrounded (by hetero men) by blatant or subtle sexism, here with “Javaun” and his attitude toward “Liana”, or any other number of places at work or in public. I NEED to speak up much more frequently! Call it ancient chivalry if one would like…but it needs to be addressed, not ignored or passed off as acceptable.

And apologies for the post’s length! There’s probably parts I could’ve omitted.

Thanks John for the comment. Will you take $50 in Monopoly money? *raises glass with you* 😉

These following comments below were brought here from the later April 10th post “Ten and Counting“. IMO these comments belong here — in a Password Protected post — rather than their original public post referencing THIS post. Please excuse the ill-transferred “format”…as I’ve done my best within the protocols of WordPress. I’ve attached the Commentor’s name just above their comment, despite the fact that MY OWN Gravatar & name will appear to the far left. Apologies everyone for this strange aesthetic. 😛 LOL

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 1:31 pm said:
TBH — I couldn’t help but wonder if the person you were sharing such personal information about on a public blog was aware that you had described, in detail, about what happened that evening. Did she have your permission to share about what went on between the two of you and herself or what went on between your two friends?

Professor Taboo on April 10, 2015 at 2:15 pm said:
A peculiar set of questions Victoria. 😕 But yes, all permissions were granted when I explained two major conditions:

1 — All names would be changed.
2 — The post would be/is Password Protected.

I always do that with adult-oriented posts. Once they understood those conditions, they were fine with the story/post being on my blog.

Any reason why you made this comment here instead of over on the appropriate post? Should I move this comment over to the previous post? Also, I hope for those reading a blog-post, minor (irrelevant?) details like that doesn’t cause you or anyone to miss the bigger point, that is gender-sexual etiquette in many social situations in light of our recent sexism-misogyny conversations. I’m sure it hasn’t. 🙂 😉

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 2:20 pm said:
I read your article shortly after you posted it. I kept thinking there was going to be some genuine intimacy, like you went on about previously. I saw nothing of the sort. It wasn’t any different than reading something from a penthouse mag.

Professor Taboo on April 10, 2015 at 2:36 pm said:
Thank you for the comment Victoria. As I mentioned in this post, I was mostly curious whether WP failed to send out Notifications on the previous post.

My next few posts won’t fall into this Category of “Dark Encoutners/BDSM”, which doesn’t seem to be your particular cup-of-tea. 😉

Professor Taboo on April 10, 2015 at 2:44 pm said:
With respect and your understandable sensitivities to some of the issues discussed, I feel you may have missed the bigger points of the post, particularly the final four paragraphs.

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 2:47 pm said:
Oh, I got the “finer” points. She was comfortable “expressing her sexuality and masturbation techniques” with a guy she hadn’t seen in years. She used you to get off. Every guys dream, eh? 😀

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 3:04 pm said:
Btw, before I followup with your questions(s), I like your new theme. Having a longing for the Nordic/Scandinavian countries> 😉

OK, you set your post up as something that would show examples of couples having a connection. That’s what I was expecting — that you would give more details like you said was expressed in the Animal Orgy House movie you shared.

There was TV — booze — old friends, you hadn’t seen in a long while — #%$@ing going on in the other room you were hoping to be invited too, and a horny woman who couldn’t sleep and wanted another beer before she got off in front of you.

If that is your definition of connection and genuine intimacy, then Professor, you have been in Texas far too long. LOL

Professor Taboo on April 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm said:
Well, your extreme candor has sometimes surprised me, often made me grin or smile, and has always been deeply appreciated, even if it touches me like highly coarse sandpaper. 😉

I’ll give some time to gather my thoughts & counter-points to this and reply, then deleting this reply. Btw, I’ve had to edit your cuss words from comments given that THIS POST IS NOT Password Protected. Therefore, for future comments on here please refrain from the vulgarity Ma’am. Thank you kindly. 🙂

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 3:34 pm said:
Cuss word? Vulgarity? I have said that word before on your site (public posts) and it has never been edited before, nor have you ever said anything to me until now. I guess that when it’s used to describe couples getting their groove on, it’s a cuss word, but when used for any other reason, it’s not.

I’m about to go offline as we are about to get severe thunderstorms. I won’t be the least offended if you delete all my comments. No followup/counter is necessary. We are simply on two different wave-lengths when it comes to what intimacy and connection is, if that last post is anything to go by.

Thank you for allowing me to be forthright with you. Have a good evening.

Professor Taboo on April 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm said:
Actually, those “words” have all been in Password Protected posts, except two, all by you 😉 — and about two weeks ago I went back through ALL comments and edited those words WITHOUT losing (I hope) the intended intensity behind them. Why? Because very infrequently I have family members (including my own daughter and son) who (may?) sometimes visit my blog. They, along with my Mom, have mentioned (like they do about my certain FB friends) how much they dislike the cuss-words…for personal reasons. Though I certainly use the language myself in specific adult cases, I respect their opinion. Why? Because some of the content I share on my blog I feel is very important, very relevant to their lives and I’d rather them not lose complete interest over such a petty reason — or excuse? In that light, that’s a battle I don’t care to fight; ultimately it’s needless in the big picture of the subject matter!

However, on adult topics/posts…we do have and there should be a freedom to express our intensity. I’m okay with adult language in Password Protected posts.

Now, to take that necessary time for the previous pending reply to you. 🙂

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 9:06 pm said:
“Actually, those “words” have all been in Password Protected posts, except two — and about two weeks ago I went back through ALL comments and edited those words WITHOUT losing (I hope) the intended intensity behind them. Why? Because very infrequently I have family members (including my own daughter and son) who sometimes visit my blog.”

Yikes, I’ve known you for about two years now, and have talked extensively on the phone with you, and this is the first time you’ve ever shared this with me about your children or mama peaking in from time to time. The great circle of bloggers I’m active with on WP have all (well, most) been able to let their hair down from time to time on each others blog with no password protection posts involved.

Also, the ones who have family members reading their blogs generally mention this in their about page. With the kind of comments you’ve made in comment sections on your non-password protected post in the past (perhaps minus the “cuss” words, I would have never suspected your children might be reading.

Further comments from me will be rated G – PG at the most. My apologies.

Professor Taboo on April 11, 2015 at 5:50 am said:
First things first…

Thank you Ma’am for the appreciation on my new theme. “…a longing for the Nordic/Scandinavian countries” for sure, I do indeed LONG to live in a more free, more equal, more civilized highly educated society like a Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, etc, than my present pseudo-barbaric location. 😛 You and I can certainly agree on that can’t we!?

Btw, my header rotates randomly between 12 different headers, not just that Nordic/Scandinavian picture.

Second, this thread [from the Ten and Counting post] has now most definitely gone well beyond the appropriate content of this particular public S.O.S. -flare post. Therefore, I must carry the remaining comments of our discussion over to the previous post! I may carry all of the thread over to that post. Fyi. 🙂

Dana on April 10, 2015 at 4:58 pm said:
So, whoa… hold up here. I don’t think that N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ finished reading the blog. Methinks this person missed the entire intent. Had you been just a “horny male”, you’d have been aggressive…like the men that gave you a hard time, called out(?) in your last paragraphs. The ones you discuss in your paragraph asking for discussion. I am a bit perplexed at the “figurative” tongue-lashing.

Considerations for N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ”
1. It was a password protected post due to content.
2. You did not use her, or your friend’s, real names, so I do not get that criticism.
3. I thought your post was very delicate and showed the spirit (and intent) of your post. What I got out of it was that men should be gentlemen and NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A SITUATION. You could have easily connived your way into her, like many men (and I mean most, really) would do. You held on to principles and, even to her need to keep herself safe, despite her own initiative to do what she did in front of you.
4. You displayed actions that a gallant man should/would do. I was very proud of the ending.

Kudos to you, Professor Taboo, for being a gentleman. To hell with the naysayers and those who look for a chance to chastise. This N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ should have gone back to re-read/see what you were referencing in your posts here before showing such unwarranted animosity. Keep on trying to educate us, Professor. There are many of us that get the point you are trying to make and also, appreciate that you show that women should be respected and treated with dignity, even when alcohol makes them lose their inhibitions. I wish I had had men like you around when I’ve lost mine!

Professor Taboo on April 10, 2015 at 6:16 pm said:
Thank you Dana for your perspective and feedback. Your points — from a female perspective — are quite useful here as well. I just REALLY WISH this was going on over on the correct post, the previous post! 😛 This post was merely an S.O.S. flare to point readers/followers to that post, not this one.

But perhaps leaving these comments here will achieve what I ultimately intended, as you mentioned Dana, and that was/is MORE AWARENESS of a social-gender problem in America, and more importantly at least ONE proper method of treatment toward women. That’s the bigger picture.

In some defense of NeuroNotes, there might still be some raw areas of sensitivity that have not had time to heal fully…and I’ve certainly pricked or scratched some of those “exposed” areas in the past with my own blunt openness and honesty about such taboo sensitive subjects and from my own moments of naivety with the full context of other’s perspectives. With that said, NeuroNotes is a wonderful, bright, intelligent writer & blogger, and funny woman I’ve had the honor of getting to know the last 2-3 years. 🙂 But on controversial topics such as sexism, sexuality, gender-roles, etc, we’ve had to work really hard together to HEAR each other rather than hurt or alienate. We’ve managed to do it so far, thankfully. ❤

Perhaps in the previous blog I did not adequately emphasize how well the "five year friendship" had developed a level of trust and respect between us. Maybe? I certainly did not mean to portray those final hours as ‘inibriated uselessness’ with no human element or intimate connection. On the contrary, I was honored by her behavior but maintained my principles, as you correctly described. 😀

Thanks again Dana, and continue coming by with your comments and feedback please!

N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ on April 10, 2015 at 7:07 pm said:
Professor, thank you for speaking on my behalf, and for your understanding. I just wasn’t expecting a kiss and tell story, and yes, I do appreciate that you didn’t try to take advantage of her, although I thought, with alcohol being involved, and the way she tempted you, that she had put herself in a position to be taken advantage of.

Sure she apparently trusted you, but again, there had been a good bit of time that had passed since you last got together, as I recall. But this is the sort of thing that makes people less sympathetic towards women (“she led him on”), which she certainly did. As I recall, you were not expecting to have sex with her or you would have brought a condom. People tend not make good decisions when they’ve been drinking, and I wondered if she would have done this in front of you without alcohol in her system.

The way you set the other post up, the one with the orgy movie, and the discussions that followed with you emphasizing the close connection the couples had, I thought your post was going to be more about intimacy and connection (apart from sex) within the group, and that you all keep it between the parties involved as a form of respect for each other. I thought you were going to share the other 3/4’s of the quiche — the other dynamics of the people you were involved with. That’s why you wanted me to watch the movie.

Please accept my apology for being curt. I should have followed my gut this time like I did the first time when I read your post, keeping my thoughts to myself. Apparently I wasn’t alone in that thinking.

I feel you might have gone into these posts & discussions with preconceived ideas (sun-shades?) of what you feel should be healthy, exciting, intimate, deeply connecting sexuality, rather than what I find to be an alternative euphoric, steamy, deep connecting intimate sexuality more expanded through OTHER good/excellent lovers/partners. Maybe?

Also, what you personally feel was not provided in my posts should not detract from MY broader points of one or two aspects of human sexuality/sensuality and gender-sexual etiquette…which is what Do You Have A Condom? is ultimately about. In Harmful or Helpful? and the movie, the film was a good example of how it all can be handled in a FUN as well as constructive manner! 😀

Please accept my apology for being curt. I should have followed my gut this time like I did the first time when I read your post, keeping my thoughts to myself. Apparently I wasn’t alone in that thinking.

Apologies accepted; no worries honestly, given the touchy subject. BUT…stating “I wasn’t alone in that thinking” is a peculiar closing. ❓
If you are referring to the lack of many comments/commentors, there are a plethora of possible/probable explanations, the taboo subject being just one! LOL Aside from that one, your closing is… well, TBH, is/was a bit ego-centric if an ego-centric maniac can say so himself. 😉

The verbage and cuss-word issue does not need to overtake the more important issues discussed — cuss-words have their appropriate times and places. I brought it up because you were using the word(s) in a derogatory manner toward me and Liana and our friendship, attempting to make it and us sound like two horny primates clueless of our sexual expressions. I took a bit of exception to that portrayal. Bygones. 🙂

Regarding your future G or PG-rated comments & words, just don’t go to an extreme and dilute the emotion or intensity behind your feelings/thoughts. But it is good to have a large expanded vocabulary to still achieve verbally (& via the written word) your mind and heart! Right? 🙂 ❤

Your obvious distaste for more open, freer sensuality & sexuality — with or without connection & intimacy — is noted. It’s not for everyone at particular times in their lives. Understandably, it is at first a very vulnerable-feeling, but I assure you from my own personal experience, when that initial hump is scaled and put behind, THAT IS WHEN real human connection and intimacy truly begins. Believe me, I’ve witnessed it first-hand on many occassions. 😉

You said: “…you set your post up as something that would show examples of couples having a connection.”

That isn’t entirely true and misses the over-all brain teaser of ‘our bodies and sexuality are nothing to be ashamed of and when seen (naked) and interpreted in a group environment’ — in the SAME ROOM/HOUSE — as I mentioned, many unnecessary barriers lower. Couples walk away knowing much much more about themselves as well as their partner! What the film portrayed well was how each person, each couple showed their natural hesitancy & fears, but with more communication — and yes, it can be criticized that had alcohol NOT been involved the “openness” possibly would not have happened as well or at all — came more comfort, a bit more trust, and in the end HIGHER self-esteems about their own sexuality! Do you remember those parts of the movie? I couldn’t disagree more that it hinted of a frat/sorority house of drunkards as it did some of the (fear-based?) hangups adults have about sexuality, in themselves AND others!

And there’s a flip-side to the results of alcohol consumption — I find it to be a profound truth-serum to most, maybe to all. Those encouraged inhibitions come from somewhere and reveal a person’s TRUER character that for many many years/decades has possibly been hidden (like a child in fear) due to social constraints and peer-pressure. That’s my experienced-based opinion. 😀 Now, outside the safety of a home or stationary (legal) location, alcohol consumption most definitely adversely effects judgement and SHOULD NOT be irresponsibly consumed. Then there are the health issues or risks of constant consumption, liver degradation, or alcohol poisoning. Obviously, abuse is not good!

But if you watched the entire movie Victoria, then you’re missing the best points: the group & individual dynamics of HOW the 8-10 friends ended up connecting stronger and better. With regard to my own personal experience(s) with Liana & Javaun — and for that matter other close “intimate” friends of mine — you missed the fact that Liana comes from a more conservative background than I do and up until this specific night-out, had always shown her hesitancy in getting sexually involved with me (a BDSM’er particularly). Plus, remember that I stated she had “ALWAYS been smitten” with Javaun? And up until she met Javaun, me, and our circle of friends, she had always been monogamous with her lovers/partners. Those were other reasons I showed my respect for her feelings & comfort level, past and present. For someone like her and the sexual journey she has been on the last 5-years I’ve known her, some chemical-push-alongs have helped her expand her sensuality! Hopefully at some point she becomes SO COMFORTABLE with that, she no longer needs any alcohol… as I think everyone should be and reach. But some people grow up around heavy prudishness regarding sex and I feel that is a detriment to a bigger human wholeness. 😦

Perhaps I should write many more specific intimate “kiss and tell” stories/posts to demonstrate to my fiercest opponent everyone that this fictional (American?) untameable sexual beast that roars & spits danger-warnings and incites mass fear, a red Wizard of Oz instead of a green one, is actually a little meek brittle man hiding behind a curtain. 😉 LOL

Given your friendship and history of long one-on-one discussion it appears to me that you have already been intimate. I don’t define intimacy as necessarily one form of communication, but rather just the willingness to be open in front of another person, whether that be through the revealing of inner thoughts that you don’t share with a lot of people, being open sexually, or being open emotionally. It does sound like an intimate relationship you have with Liana, and she seemed like she wanted to simply be intimate with you in a different way. I can also understand not wanting alcohol involved with someone who you want to make sure is in full charge of their faculties before being intimate in a sexual way. Although we have no problem listening to someone’s deepest darkest secrets and confessions when they are drunk, perhaps we should also be more careful about that as well! I do think there is a certain level of drunkenness when you know a person well whether or not they are doing something they truly want to do, or drunkenness is adversely affecting their judgment. She definitely has feelings for you and I don’t think it would have been seen as taking advantage of her, had you had a condom. If I thought you were bragging it was more about what a gentleman you were about it all, rather than bragging about your sexual prowess. Some sexual experiences can be completely intimate and not involve touching at all. Mutual masturbation I think is quite hot. Of course I kind of have a teasing fetish, but I think that that meaningful sexual experiences don’t have to always involve intercourse. It seems like you appreciate Liana and the experiences you have had with her, even if it hasn’t been the sort of “usual” type intimate connections with her. That was nice to see.

In regards to your first question, I honestly have a hard time talking with guys when it comes to women because I can’t stand it when it gets vulgar. I just would prefer to change the subject. I probably should be bolder and chastise them for their attitude, and I would for very close friends, but all of my very close friends are close for the very reason that they have a good sense of respect for women. That being said, I find I get along with women much more than with men. Other than a comment like “That’s nice” is seeing an attractive woman walk by with a male friend next to me, I don’t think I’ve ever said the words like “I’d totally hit that!”. Maybe also a generally lack of self-esteem in my looks for most of my life made me feel like sex wasn’t really the ultimate goal. I really enjoy intimacy though and have realized that this is a driving force for me in the relationships I forge. Whether sexual intimacy happens or not is unimportant. I’ve always felt that if you genuinely care about people and respect them, then every once in awhile sex will happen, so what is there to worry about? I always feel really great when I have a feeling of closeness to people I really like. Sometimes I have wished for additional forms of intimacy, and I don’t think sex and love are the same thing, and so not having sex never really bothered me as long as there was love.

In regards to your second question, I am not sure I have a good answer. I have too been accused of being too nice…not bold enough. With the exception of my wife, I think pretty much every other woman I met before her, I have been too worried about being rejected should I move in for the kiss and it is unwanted. And asking for permission seems unromantic (maybe it isn’t it). So yeah, I’ve more often than not been kissed first instead of making the first move. I’m sure it’s a combination of nature and nurture. In our evolutionary past there is a definitely a greater cost for a woman to be sexually promiscuous. Pregnancy requires a lot of resources to go towards the female in the wild, and young children reduce mobility which for hunter gatherers is really important. Plus especially male primates react much differently around children who they are not sure if they are the father of. Generally they don’t help in the child raising. This is also an energy cost. We are not a monogamous species biologically however, so it’s clear that we also don’t mind a little sexual promiscuity as well. That being said nature can be overwritten by nurture in a lot of ways. In the wild where spouses could easily be killed by the many dangers lurking out there, and was the reason in general for a lot of adulterous activities, we no longer live in such dangerous conditions. We have birth control also which reduces the cost of a woman being sexually promiscuous. I don’t think there is a reason anymore why a woman can’t be as bold as man, other than societal stigmas which are no longer valid.

Wow Swarn, I am humbled and in awe of your insightful comment; honestly! 😮 Thank you for the time & consideration you put in to it! *shows the Namaste position to you* 🙂

I am very happy that you deduced and/or interpreted the correct intent and meaning of my two posts. Thank you Sir. There’s nothing much more I want to elaborate on because of your well articulated insightful comment. And also, thank you very much for YOUR OWN candor about intimacy, sexual or not. You differentiate intimacy accurately I feel.

Regarding your last paragraph, I completely understand your hesitance amongst men & their disrespectful language toward women — it takes LOTS of courage to speak up and be the brave noble one in those situations, often with high-T Alpha-males around strutting their “stuff” — but it does need to be toned way down! And then being passive with women(?)…I too have been in those mysterious perplexed situations where the woman’s vibes/wants are foggy to read and interpret. I’ve found in those limbo situations, verbal articulation (and boldness?) are lacking on some level in some fashion. Over the last decade or more, I feel I’ve really refined and honed my intuition (psychic skills? lol) skills and when I’ve made the first move, it has ALWAYS given the best truthful results! That’s a very good thing for sure!

Again Swarn, many thanks for your GREAT comment! Please feel free to share openly here. 🙂

“I feel you might have gone into these posts & discussions with preconceived ideas (sun-shades?) of what you feel should be healthy, exciting, intimate, deeply connecting sexuality, rather than what I find to be an alternative euphoric, steamy, deep connecting intimate sexuality more expanded through OTHER good/excellent lovers/partners. Maybe?”

No, that’s not it at all, Professor, and I think that we’ve had enough conversation via the phone and email for you to know this is absolutely not the case with me. I have always been supportive of your decision to have multiple partners. I have, however, made it very clear to you that this is simply not my thing. However you are insistent that I am “really” missing out. I am not. I have certain criteria that I know is best for me — what opens me up and allows for me to connect intimately with another human being is obviously not the same for you. Sex seem to be required for you to get to that point. Not for me.

“Your obvious distaste for more open, freer sensuality & sexuality — with or without connection & intimacy — is noted. It’s not for everyone at particular times in their lives. Understandably, it is at first a very vulnerable-feeling, but I assure you from my own personal experience, when that initial hump is scaled and put behind, THAT IS WHEN real human connection and intimacy truly begins. Believe me, I’ve witnessed it first-hand on many occassions.”

See what I mean? Do not think you have the upper-hand, a better understanding of what “real” human connection and intimacy is or truly begins. Remember, you hang out with women much younger than you, and who have not had near the life experiences as older women.

“Perhaps I should write many more specific intimate “kiss and tell” stories/posts to demonstrate to my fiercest opponent everyone that this fictional (American?) untameable sexual beast that roars & spits danger-warnings and incites mass fear, a red Wizard of Oz instead of a green one, is actually a little meek brittle man hiding behind a curtain.”

You’ve missed the point again. Just because having multiple partners for you, usually younger than you, is your cup of tea, doesn’t mean that the rest of us are so naive and unlearned about life. I don’t fear your lifestyle. I just am simply not interested, and I’m sure the same can be said of others. As I mentioned to you before, there is an incredible beauty in seeing my mother and step-father together, who have a deeper love now than they did when they first met.

What will happen to you, Professor, when you can no longer get it up due to some illness? Do you think those young women will flock around you then and hang around to help you in your older, less sexy, less partying years?

Btw, I did not watch that movie, and I explained why, and you shared with me that you would be writing a post that would address the more “intimate, connection” type experiences as portrayed in the movie. That’s what I was expecting from your post.

Again kudos for you for behaving and not taking advantage of an intoxicated woman.

My Dear Friend, I think it is time for us to simply & courteously admit to each other that on this particular subject (sexuality, etc.), we speak two different languages from two entirely different backgrounds and experiences… and leave it at that. A sort of “agree to disagree” or heed the signs that say “WARNING! Entering will be at your own peril“, then wisely turn around and walk away. 😉 🙂

🙂 You give the impression that the only subject we’ve ever talked about was sexuality, eroticism, etc, which… if that’s what you are implying, is completely incorrect. But I’m SURE that’s not what you’re implying.

You really are pushy sometimes and perhaps don’t see that in yourself. LOL

You’re the very first woman to ever say that about me. In all seriousness! LOL However, I HAVE been told that I have a hilarious way of being “full of myself” or “grandious” as one ex-wife and one former girlfriend would sometimes say. 😉

OK. I didnt say anything because I don’t have anythong to say on what people get up to behind closed doors. That’s the first.

Secondly, were you asking for praise for not having sex with her? Or being restrained? (Not literally) or whatever? I mean, yes ten points, but that should be the norm not something to be praised. And if your mates think differently, they are arseholes.

What else? Do I want men to take the first step? Well, ‘I’d like to fuck you’ is more helpful than ‘oh that’s a pretty dress’. But I’ve also asked men for sex. Is that what you wanted to know? (And they did say yes).

First point? Excellent and all too often in Puritan Prudish America…flat out ignored by (wealthy?) Conservatives and Ultra-conservatives in politics. Kate, I truly wish it were that simple and a non-existent non-issue. But alas, here in the self-righteous bible-belt, that just isn’t the case. It’s still a fight. We still have not just a foot, but 1/3rd or half a body 60-70 years in the past — civil rights Movement prior to Martin Luther King, Jr. 😦

Second point? No, not really seeking praise — my self-esteem & self-confidence is quite healthy and stable; not easily influenced at all. I say that with a hint of modesty, truly. 🙂 Yes, “arseholes” abound here! And shockingly ironic (or not, depending on your perspective)… this social gender-sexual etiquette problem in America is primarily throughout the bible-belt states, the Midwest, and somewhat the Near West — surprise, your typical Red-state “Conservative” states. 😮 (not)
And I don’t feel I’m harshly stereotyping those regions.

Your final point about being blunt with each other? OH DEAR GODS!!! I wish people here were that articulate, that accepting & open of their sexuality! It would lessen (cure?) SO MANY of these issues! Period. Yet again, alas, fill in the why-not blank here: _________________. History repeats itself way too much.

Yeah, I’m becoming aware of the ignorance in your bible belt. I’d always heard the name but pre internet I guess I thought it was Utah. This whole fundie behaviour is way out of my stratosphere. Thanks be the Lord gave them to you and not me.

I didn’t say blunt 🙂 but I do find calling a spade helpful on certain occasions. Saves so much confusion. For the sake of public (although in this password protected case private) record, I should probably add that since I got married I haven’t approached anyone else, although I have had some thick-skinned individuals incapable of understanding the words, ‘no I am not interested’.

Yeah, I’m becoming aware of the ignorance in your bible belt. I’d always heard the name but pre internet I guess I thought it was Utah. This whole fundie behaviour is way out of my stratosphere. Thanks be the Lord gave them to you and not me.

Oh Kate, I could take up hours of your day and weeks elaborating on our (still modern version?) domestic history — the bible-belt is sadly, for all intents and purposes, the Confederate States of the 1861-1865 Civil War. I kid you not. 😦 In fact, there’s a gaining movement currently in my own archaic “Wild West” state of Texas to secede from the Union…again. In light of this, It may or may not surprise you that among our 50-states, Texas ranks anywhere between 18th and 23rd (depending on source) for educational standards with a report card of C (70% pass) on Education Policies. Also not so surprising is that of those Confederate States (bible-belt), only Florida and North Carolina rank higher at 10th (with a B score on EP) and 16th (with a C+ score on EP) respectively. All other Confederate states drop horribly into the lower half/percentiles of educational standards — Louisiana and South Carolina at the very bottom! I could bombard you with a plethora of stats and reports of this.

What does that reveal? Plainly how utterly unenlightened, semi-illiterate (fully illiterate?) or how poorly the populace of said states are capable of thinking in abstract broader terms or equations! I’m ashamed (always) to admit this to foreigners BECAUSE the U.S. as a whole keeps falling further behind the rest of the world!!! 😮 *begins to shed tears* Therefore, it shouldn’t come as much of a surprise how much Texas and the bible-belt states are digressing with regard to civilized social and political policies and progress!!! Our generations since the 1850’s, present, and future have been and are truly ignorant! That pains me and which is why I became a 4th – 8th grade teacher in Science and Social Studies/History… and no surprise why this next coming school year I will be PUSHED OUT of teaching due to the Conservative State Congress and Governor’s Office (for the last 20+ years) pushing for a more theocratic Christian-based history and public school curriculum. Yes, I kid you not…again. 😦

I was relieved to see that you had asked permission to share this story. Changed names or not, I would want to know if a story of this kind was being shared about me.

I understand V’s frustration with you. Not because I feel the way she does about relations like these, but because I’ve seen you two interact over the last few months and it’s been a bit painful. But it does seem that you have finally taken her point, so I’ll leave it be.

I admit that I am not sure whether you had a condom or not. In one sentence you said that you had only been invited to watch and were committed to doing no more than that. You also said that you were willing to do anything up to actual intercourse. You can’t have it both ways. I was confused as to whether you said no because you felt the situation was improper or because you actually didn’t have a condom. Perhaps a bit of both?

I am also curious as to your level of inebriation versus hers. I know that can be difficult to quantify, but I still wonder about it. If you were saying no because you didn’t want it to happen like that, I completely understand. If you said no because you thought that she was too sloshed to really say yes, then the levels of inebriation matter. At least to me. Not specifically for your situation, but any case where drunk individuals are considering sexual acts. It would probably be best if we never did anything drunk that we wouldn’t do sober – less room for regret. As we all know, being drunk lowers our inhibitions and that isn’t always a bad thing, sometimes that is what we want. Without knowing her desires and thoughts, I can’t say whether she would have regretted going further. I wish that was what you asked. ‘Would you want this if you weren’t drunk?’ A mood killer question perhaps, but a more complete one. Since I am still unsure of your motivations in saying no, I wonder more about hers. You put a lot of stock in her invitation for you to watch and it gave you pause when she seemed to be asking for more. Why? Either she was sober enough to invite you to watch AND to change her mind and ask for intercourse OR she wasn’t sober enough to consider the ramifications of either. If you thought she wasn’t sober enough to ask for intercourse, why did you think she was sober enough to invite you to watch? Of course, I may have this wrong. If you didn’t want to have intercourse in that situation, but believed her sober enough to make such decisions, then I understand completely.

I cringed at the mention of ‘brotherly obligation’. Yuck. I was totally unsuprised when you said that you were later razzed for not going further. Keep calling them out, professor. That is how society changes.

I understand V’s frustration with you. Not because I feel the way she does about relations like these, but because I’ve seen you two interact over the last few months and it’s been a bit painful. But it does seem that you have finally taken her point, so I’ll leave it be.

“A bit painful?” Eh, maybe. Frustrating? Certainly. You accurately point out her side of the discussions, that is her initial unspoken offense and hurt over what I joked about until publically outing me without coming to me first. That put me immediately on the defensive and damage-control while TRYING to be an outspoken opponent of Sexism/Misogyny on Ruth’s blog. As Ruth pointed out, it could’ve and should’ve been handled better and privately. Bygones. She and I are now as close a friends as ever — we both have MUCH to contribute on the subject of sexism, relationships, religious fundamentalism, etc, and we are strong allies! 🙂

Regarding Liana and this story, my level of intoxication was minimal; I was driving the entire night & early morning. I can probably answer many of your questions/concerns about having intercourse with her with this simple explanation…

Whether she had been too inibriated or not, I’m about 90% sure I would not have had full sex with her for three reasons:
1) She is still enthrawled (less smitten) with Javaun. Much of our 1-on-1 conversations are usually about him, that she initiates and returns to.
2) She is still conservative at the core right now. She ultimately wants a monogamous relationship with a man, where they’re BOTH madly in love with each other. Monogamy is clearly NOT me; never will be, and I don’t believe it should be for the woman/women I’m with — seems too unnatural & oppressive to the human spirit.
3) She is STILL too afraid to be totally upfront with me about sexuality and her own sexuality. She’s at that vacillating point in her life being 30-something & unmarried. She comes from a background that shames (at least passively) women (family included) who are ultra-sexy, mega-bold in expressing it, and promiscuous, e.g. they are labelled whores, sluts, unworthy of common human treatment for their repulsive behavior with men. Do you know what I mean…being from and in Texas? Hence, why would I want her to feel that way about herself just so I could get my nuts off? Really? That’s not me in the least.

If I had thought ONLY about my own “satisfaction” in the moment, in all likelihood it would’ve complicated things, probaby more so for her than me and Javaun, as bad as that sounds.

With that said, I’ve seen Liana come a long healthy way with her sexual-gender confidence since I first met her. And yes, some of her “wild” sex-capades have been under the influence. Your questions about that are certainly valid & worthy to explore! Explore for ANY person really confronting their fears.