‘What is misandry?’

Misandry is the hatred of males as a sex, as opposed to misogyny, the hatred of women; or misanthropy, hatred of the human species. Misandry comes from misos (Greek μῖσος, “hatred”) + andr-ia (Greek anér-andros, “man”). Those holding misandric beliefs can be of either sex. Thus it holds to common sense that Anti Misandry is to work toward removing misandry from our culture.

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Answers.com

Can you give me some demonstrations of misandry?

Sure. Have a look at the second-wave feminist view of men for an example. Valerie Solanas, the radical feminist who shot Andy Warhol in 1968, provides a famous example of misandry in her self-published SCUM Manifesto. In case you’re wondering, SCUM is an acronym for ‘Society for Cutting Up Men’, practically a call for gendercide, the culling of men. Quite literally, Solanas expressed her desire to “institute complete automation and destroy the male sex.“

Wow, this is pretty bad stuff – what can I do about misandry?

For one thing, you can stop accepting it as a ‘way of life’. Once upon a time, respect was a two-way street. These days it is more a one-way street where men are demanded to be respectful to women (even those who do not earn, or even try to earn it) while simultaneously disrespect of men is expected, condoned, perpetuated and even taught. You can make a difference by refusing to live this way.

Did you just say misandry is ‘taught’?

Yes, that’s right! The next time you switch on the television, count how many programmes have the token ‘stupid boyfriend’ or ‘abusive husband’ or ‘paedophilic father’ figure. Switch over to a children’s channel / time window and watch how many cartoons or programmes reflect ‘silly daddy’ characters or ‘bullying big brother’. Don’t forget, of course, nearly all the women in these same programmes will be smart, sexy, sassy and full of beans, capable of juggling a career lifestyle with children, a husband and a social circle – let’s not forget that she’s undoubtedly a wonderful cook and always remembers everybody’s birthdays. If these images are being constantly spread out over our airwaves, what does that tell our children who are growing up watching & learning daily, hourly, that men are just so stupid, abusive and … well, useless?

So is it more feminism’s fault, or the media’s fault?

A lot of both, but neither would be able to indoctrinate our youth without the support of…. the government.

Ahh – yes. The government. Tell me about their involvement?

Well, they positively support and enforce feminist programmes of anti-male bias.

Uh?

Think ‘Violence Against Women Act‘ – notice something wrong in that? Notice how violence against men or children is not mentioned? VAWA implies, through it’s title alone, that men are the primary perpetrators of violence – despite 30 years of research and in excess of 130 scientific studies proving that intimate partner violence is roughly mutual. Time and time again, the results say the same “men and women are equally violent towards one another”. And yet, when feminists demand preferential treatment or additional ‘rights’, the government promptly delivers, like a good boy.’

Women against feminism

813 comments

Thanks for your blog
The people who project these demeaning images of men are not stupid – they know exactly what they are doing, how unfair and offensive it is, and they know how damaging it is to men and families – that’s why they do it!

This is more than just a few misguided politicians with a few misguided policies – this is much mich bigger than that. Our society is under attack from within. Our enemies are using feminism to destroy our society from within.
Below I give some links that explain this point more fully.

First here are some solutions
SOLUTIONS
Solutions
It is very easy to control a womans brain and get her to do anything (anything) you want her to here are some people that teach the techniques of controlling a womans brain, (Google them).
The Mystery Method, Ross Jefferies, Gary Brodsky, Dave DeAngelou, Dave Shane These people may or may not be nice, but they will teach you the techniques of controlling our women, the same techniques the people that are waging psychological war against our society from within are using.

Here are some of the key points the above people teach about controlling a womans brain:

Key points
ONE
For a woman – describing is the same as doing
For example – you tell her that your friend has just met a new boyfriend. It’s fun watching her fall in love with him! She talks about him all the time! She says when he speaks his voice is like a pair of strong powerful arms wrapping themselves around her in a warm loving embrace. She can feel herself getting attracted to him more and more.

Modern MRI scans show that when given a description like this a womans brain “lights up” exactly the same as when she is really falling in love! She can’t tell the difference!! between the emotions you are describing to her and experiencing those emotions herself!! (This is the key to seducing a woman!!) It is also why our television screens and newspapers being filled everday with stories of husbands who have abused their wives and the wife was very very afraid are so damaging. The women listening feel the feelings that are being described to them, on the TV program!

Our governments know all of this!

TWO
There are 2 main regions to the human brain. The limbic region which processes emotions, the Neo Cortex processing science, numbers, and logic.

The limbic region (emotions) will always always overrule the cortex (logic)
Love is blind, the heart ruling the head are common sayings that describe this.
This is true for both men and women BUT

The limbic region in women is 10% bigger than in men. Women feel their emotions much more intensely than men do. (Not politically correct but true)
Also
Women have many, many, many more connections between the limbic region and the cortex region than do men.
Womens cortex region (logic) is relentlessly bombarded with her emotions (what she is feeling) a woman cannot seperate her decisions from her feelings, while a man is much more locked in his cortex (logical) region

We saw that the limbic region will always always overrule the cortex (logic), hence a woman will always always do what she feels – if you can make her feel it she will do it! This is the key to seducing women!
Summary:
Emotions always always overrule logic
A womans brain is constantly bombarded with her emotions
For a woman Describing is the same as experiencing she can’t tell the difference between the emotions you are describing to her and experiencing those emotions herself.

As soon as she met him she felt an overwhelming powerful attraction for him, like destiny had brought the two of them together. As he talked she felt her attraction for him growing stronger and more powerful with each passing moment = a hot wild night of s_x

More importantly it is also the key to understanding the tactics our enemies within (our governments!) are using to destroy our countries from within:

She felt powerless and helpless as her husband beat her again and again, breaking her nose and putting her into hospital. If you feel afraid call 911 the police are here to protect you = False domestic violence charge and another family destroyed

In the US, infant boy genital cutting is in decline with reported rates of roughly 33% in 2009. Still, that’s about 700,000 infants a year subjected to removal of healthy, functional erogenous tissue. US child mutilation laws protect every body part except the penis.

Yes IanB, and they keep trying to force this barbarism on the general population. Strange that believe their god created man is his own image and then decide to “improve ” on the creation of their god. Doesn’t god have a prepuce?

A major aspect in all of this tit-for-tat feminist/menifist spattery is that there seems to be a general obliviousness on the part of feminists and menifists alike to the fact of there being MANY feminisms around.
I draw attention to this in the same terms as I would ‘Christianities’.
To imagine that all feminism is one agenda is to recognise only that SOME Feminists within feminism and outside it, try to command all activity within feminism within their own interpretation, in EXACTLY the same way that fundamentalist Christians attempt to politically leverage the activities of all other christians AND come to be regarded as the chief representative strain.

A lot of this is a sheer lack of invention. In music and art circles, activists are fond of creating NEW names to ‘house’ their activities. For political purposes, feminism, conservatism, liberalism, communism and many other political isms try to keep with the brand in order to leverage the power of the brand. It’s why many thinking women wont want to be described as feminists and why most notions of ‘man’ by women and men alike, are anathema to many thinking men.

It is of course the contemporary ‘eternal’ return of religious, conservative male hegemony that will see the revival of grass roots feminism, largely deserted by most women who have seen improvements in their lot during the past 40 years.
This should not give license to either male hegemonists nor radical feminists whose aim is to ‘replace’ male hegemony with their own.

What is needed is fresh water thinking that will come from disintermediation.
The feminists we need, as some men here have said with general commendation, are those fighting for their sisters abroad who have yet to get their head above the water of oppression. And we certainly do not need nit-picking reactionaries to react against the not-picking feminist reactionaries who reacted against male hegemonist reactionaries 😉

What is needed now is intelligence, an area in which humans claim to specialise but need to step up and prove themselves in.
This means that as well as (and preferably instead of) participating in ‘playground’ finger-pointing and academic writing up of suchalike, it might be a good idea, occasionally (and preferably permanently), to imagine yourself at a point where a simple point has been made:

Excellent post, Michael. Sadly, rationality (as well as basic interpersonal decency) are usually thrown out the window in all these gender flame wars, helped no doubt by the participation of trolls, to whom such discussions are, of course, a magnet. I also blame a fetishistically essentialist way of thinking for the fact that many seem cling to their hatred of the other side in an attempt to define their own identity in a desirable light.

I was going to post something, but your comment has summarizes my thoughts much more succinctly than I could have.

As a self-identified feminist, I understand that there are inequalities on both sides. I do not seek to put women above men, but to place them at an equal standing. As humans, we are prone to generalize. This causes extremists on both sides to be grouped with the overall general movement. Perhaps we are drawn into these petty debates and sides because we are drawn away from the real issues. Thank you, OP, for drawing my attention to the sexism in the media for men. As a woman, I see it for us as well. We are expected to uphold unrealistic ideas of sexuality and beauty, “many of us” are manipulative liars that cannot control our overwhelming supply of emotions, and we “are weak and dependent” on men.

Perhaps feminists and menifists are fighting a more similar fight than we realize. Many feminists already talk about how the patriarchy hurts men too, by ascribing them necessary “manly” traits and roles.

Just some food for thought. I’d like to have further conversations on the issue, if any menifists or similar individuals were interested.

What is that matter with all of you? “Women can’t Blah blah,” “Men are evil blah.” really really have any of you stopped and thought about this. I think you’re just choosing sides in a much larger group that’s just not very nice at times.. Humans in general are not always nice or good creatures stop blaming sex you fools and start blaming individuals.

The negative extreme feminist misandry is destructive and has been acceptefd as politically correct. If men exhibitedf this degree of mysogny even other men would condemn it, but misandry has become omnipresent in society and is not only tolerated but condoned. If women want to go it alone and marginalize all men, they may get more than bargained ofr.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Exposing Feminism wrote:

> ** > Darius commented: “What is that matter with all of you? “Women can’t > Blah blah,” “Men are evil blah.” really really have any of you stopped and > thought about this. I think you’re just choosing sides in a much larger > group that’s just not very nice at times.. Humans in gene” >

I separete logic from emotion extremely well. I do not trust my emotions until proven they are corect for the situation. I am a 35 year old woman & I do think with my head b4 my emotions. I am extremely logical. So much so my male peers respect me. Call me cold or unfeeling but when you think with what you feel first you become din din for others men & women alike to take advantage of you. Your assesment while has some facts, such as our comuinication center is larger than a man’s is true, we think constantly much more than men, but your theory that I can not think with logic or see through what you are trying to do to manipulate women, was incorrect.I also do not feel “inlove if it is sugestted to me.” I am incappable as are my female peers of experiencing false true love. Fantacy of infatuation perhaps, as felt in the past could occur but rest assured we women can tell the differnce. I am one of those women your mother told you to marry a stong logical independant woman who can not only save her self But your ass as well if our ship is sinking & you are out of commision. rest assured this lady is not moving unless your ass is incapasatated & cannot function. Chiverly is not dead. I do hate feminisem, & yes I am a real woman who has birthed 5 children, had maraiges that faled because my husband could not be a man but was turned i to a girl by socitey leaving me frustrated & running away from him screaming where the hell is the door I married a girl with a dick.
For a woman to buy that bullshit youare selling & sugestting men read, well good sir, she would have to be young, nieve & gullable, & pubessant..You should never try to control another human being, this act gave rise to ugly femisiem in the first place.

Sorry, but your choice of title shows a selective, narrow and about 40 years out-of-date idea of ‘feminism’. If you read widely in modern non-extremist (e.g. Valerie Solanas of course) feminist literature with an open mind you can’t help but seeing that most modern feminists do not hate men.

Not all women are the same. There is difference between sex and gender. You can be born not just as a male or female, but even as a hermafrodite and other variations due to chromosomes, hormones etc etc… Some males (sex) don’t feel like a man (gender) and become transexuals. There are also people interested in people of their own sex. I don’t like abuse in either direction. I have not experienced what you have experienced. Also why would you want to control somebody’s brain? How can you have a relationship of mutual respect when you don’t even respect her. I believe the respect must be mutual and that people need to open up. Not all men like the “macho man” image they are “supposed” to give. I don’t like this hatred between men and women. I think it’s very sad. Anyway, that is all…

Can you please not spread this misinformation. Women do not all have easily seduced brains nor is there limbic region larger nor do emotions “overrule” logic and reasoning. These aspects of the human brain vastly vary from person to person.

The workings of the brain are not yet fully understood and not nearly as simple as you describe. Gender inequality is the result of societal norms that have developed and adapted throughout history. They are not the result of your pseudo-science.
Main parts of the brain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_in_the_human_brain

I believe in misandry, but reading down this… Sorry, but it’s sounding a little misogynistic. You don’t fight injustice with injustice. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Control womens’ minds? REALLY?

Misandry isn’t all that bad. Technically, women can handle more things than men can. They can have children, have a job, and cook. Out of those three, men can only do two. That is proof that women are more useful than men.
You shouldn’t whine about how feminism is on television and how men are getting a little bit bashed. Almost every religion in the world bashes women, and men have NEVER had a Sexist Ceiling put over their heads. Just because it’s our turn to get some respect around here, doesn’t mean you stupid men have any right to come and say that it’s not fair. It’s not fair how women have been treated the past centuries. IT’S OUR TURN NOW, LITTLE BOYS.
Go home and cry, because we’re not your little puppets anymore.

*Misandry isn’t all that bad. Technically, women can handle more things than men can. They can have children, have a job, and cook. Out of those three, men can only do two. That is proof that women are more useful than men.*

You wouldn’t have running water, a dwelling or security if it weren’t for men, let alone electricity or a computer. Women are incapable of creating or maintaining a civilization of any kind – just visit any matriarchal, Welfare-dependent underclass slum.

The roots of misandry is that men have always been so self-centered. They think that they are first and rest everything is second , and I have seen plenty of evidences in my life. They consider women’s innocence as stupidity or lack of brains.
If men had always understood that women’s physical fragility and emotional strength is not a sign of weakness and they do not deserve anything less than pure respect , then this world would not have had so many gender issues.Instead , they have always been cruel,selfish and violent towards females. In today’s society also , esp in poor section I see mostly females troubled with their drunkard husbands who do not hesitate to abuse and beat them every now and then , also do not care about their children at all. Obviously out of motherhood , females work and tolerate everything.
And this is the reality , not just a story. Personally all men I met in my life just saw me as a sex object , and considered me weak and were not hesitant to take advantage of me, or hurt me physically or emotionally, hardly 1-2 were exceptions. Since childhood I have seen my father acting like a jerk all the time , he practically destroyed my mother’s life and deprived me of her loving and gentle side.
So, basically I have no reason to love men. Thats why I believe in misandry. And one more thing, though there are some jobs which only men can do , still women need not to be dependent on a man for financial reasons, atleast I dont.

Vidzz, If women are so strong mentally… then why do they get upset when you tell them the truth. Am I fat; yes (balling).
I have got to the point; if I see a woman hit a man… I don’t care if she gets the shit kicked out of her. Women are trouble makers in the U.S. I used to buy into that women are glorious creatures who deserve love and care. Horse shit. U.S. women should be expelled form the female race; they are a blight to to equality. If I may be so frank.

vidzz, when I read your post I think of where I could have gone after being abused by women in a urological examination. I was fortunate to have a female nurse recognize the damage done to me and to provide me with psychological counseling to get me over the damage done to me. This more than I got from most men. I am not judging you , but your comment concerns me that maybe you have had experiences which lead you to counter misandry with mysogony. This is not the answer. Please consider your attitude and find more productive means to deal with gender issues.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Exposing Feminism wrote:

> ** > larry commented: “Vidzz, If women are so strong mentally… then why do > they get upset when you tell them the truth. Am I fat; yes (balling). I > have got to the point; if I see a woman hit a man… I don’t care if she > gets the shit kicked out of her. Women are trouble make” >

So you’re idea of equality is bringing down the last group of people that wronged you a peg because of what their previous generation did? This is why society can’t move forward, you can’t strive or pretend to be better than your oppressors and then turn around and behave the same as they did, because guess what? That makes YOU the bad guy.

Hatshesput: extremely powerful in Egypt, even before she became Pharoah. Her reign was peaceful, and promoted trade and art-progressing her country.

Queen Elizabeth I: Managed religious toleration and peace in a time when Catholics/Protestants were at each other’s throats. She never married and maintained her personal autonomy. She brought government reforms and strengthened the economy. She was personally well-educated, and England became a center of learning during her rule. She defeated the powerful Spanish Armada when it tried to invade. “During Elizabeth’s colorful 45 year reign, England became a strong European power, a vibrant commercial force, and an place of intellectual accomplishment.”

Razia Sultana: she was selected by her father to succeed him on his Mughal-era throne in India, over her brothers. She was educated in commanding armies. She dressed like a man and often did not wear a veil in public. She promoted peace. She supported infrastructure projects for the improvement of her country, as well as the building of schools and libraries. She was a patron of the arts. Sometimes her state meetings were open to the public. She died in battle.

There are three female rulers who successfully ruled their countries. Three. I could keep going on. Cleopatra, Isabella of Spain, Catherine the Great of Russia, Catherine d’Medici, Maria Theresa, Boudicca, Margaret Thatcher (admittedly, my list mostly is Eurocentric, because I have studied that area extensively), to name but a few more. They each had issues, to be sure, but no male ruler in history had a flawless reign, either. You can’t say that all female rulers are failures, because they definitely aren’t. This is another goal of feminism, not suppressing men or making you below us: no, justice for the past. Female suppression is evident in our records of history-because who is primarily allowed to record the past throughout time? That’s right, men.

I really don’t know many women that can raise children without financial help of the extended family, the government or even a husband. Much of the social infrastructure that allows a woman to do the three important jobs you list was developed by men that start work earlier, make more money, work longer and die earlier than women. You’re right to point out that the current man-developed infrastructure makes it possible for women to have children without a useless man around the house. And the state of divorce reflects that.

Men understand that they are no longer needed in a married family and are adapting to the extortion of the last thirty years. Men can hire a surrogate mother+childcare for less money than that needed to maintain the lifestyle of a wife for the average six year marriage and avoid the child support/alimony for twenty years. Consequently, women will have it rougher when they find it is more difficult to leverage their femininity to gain fortune and favors from men in return for the promise of sexual pleasure. That is, women will have to pay their way by working for it.

Women will find they will be sorry that they are getting what they asked for. Women want all the advantages they can garner in addition to the one’s they now enjoy. Fifty yeaars ago when I was auditing tax returns i did an audit for a fireman who was deducting his alimony expenses. In addition to lying through her her teeth, his spouse could not produce any proof of claims thaat she did not receive the outrageous amount of alimony she was receiving,while he had solid proof of every claim. His final advice to me at the end of the audit was “Young men if you want sex, go out and pay for it but don’t let any woman trap you into marriage.”

Your entire comment is beyond offensive and absurd.Im a single mom and I’ve never received a penny from the government with regard to raising my three children.I work full time and I enjoy it tremendously.I also take care of any maintenance needed for my home without any help.The reason that marriage has become such a ridiculous notion to many women as of late is because it essentially just gives men another way to try and control us.We can create life without the abuse/ trauma of marriage by selecting sperm from a Certain type of Man and conceive a child via artificial insemination.Eventually men will be rendered completely useless as sperm can be frozen indefinitely.The Y chromosome is already starting to become obsolete.You can research that online:).Oh and I work a sixty hour week , I know very few men that work harder/, longer than I do.

Krystal, you are also aware that women are being “Obsolete” as well, correct? Currently a fetus can be grown in ideal environments without needing a real mother. Brest milk substitutes exists and can even be healthier than the real mccoy. Also, seeing as you “know” so much, than freezing one type of male sperm or even dozens. Genetic diversity will be in threat and that causes fast/rapid evolution to adapt to the problem. You also should know that no matter where the sperm comes from, both male and female sperm will be inside the frozen amount. In tries to save a species from going extinct, it is possible to get all one species either male or female and not get what you need. But I digress. The human species is all together obsolete. Science has found ways to “create” life without the need of a mother nor father. Oh and you work 60 hours a week, 168 hours in a week. Witch means you work 35.7% of a week. Oh yeah thats a lot, almost 36% WOOHOO. Oh wait, I work as a toll booth operator, and so I can make a living I work about 72 hour work weeks on average depending on what my superiors tell me. So until you accept that the human species deserves annihilation and destruction. Shut up about your problems, or use your stiff to help people. No I don’t mean in rallies or fighting all men, I mean go and start a community garden or watch. Donate to a GOOD cause. Help people in a real way, not the kind of way that makes people want you gone.

XxXMissDemeanorXxX wrote “Technically, women can handle more things than men can. They can have children, have a job, and cook. Out of those three, men can only do two. That is proof that women are more useful than men.”

Women’s idea of work is an office environment, a phone, a water bottle and a fluffy animal on the desk, and the job description centers on shuffling status report emails about the work of others. Nearly all of the invention originates from men. You’ll notice that the majority of small companies are started and staffed by men. It is only in higher profit corporate environments that the questionable productivity of women can be tolerated.

If you ever look in the back of a restaurant, close to 100% of the kitchen workers are men.

As for gestation equipment, don’t be too surprised if men invent an artificial womb within 100 years. We already see an increase in surrogate mothers, though they are currently used by older women seeking to deliver a baby. Just a single motherhood is growing in social acceptance, we’ll see single fatherhood via surrogate mothers a more popular and lower cost option. Dating will blur with pure prostitution. Men will still enjoy the company of women. They will simply not be willing to pay a huge premium for questionable gestation capacity.

I dont know what world you live in , but you are a very narrow minded person. The problem is there are no clear gender roles in society and if one makes one or break a stereotyped image , there’s hardly any respect for that person. I hope you are getting what I am trying to say,
holding bitterness and shoot insults is the tool of the weak.

Have fun never having any kind of true fulfilling relationship until you get this bullshit resolved, unless of course you’re gay. but hate of any kind is only going to eat you alive inside.

I’m not going to go home and cry, I’m going to go out and have lots of amazing sex with women who are not severely damaged and poisoned by hate as you are.

And btw, guess what. YOU ARE THE DEFINITION OF PUPPET. How did you become a feminist? I bet probably it was the “cool” thing in school to be an activist and you just went because everyone else was doing it and then the hate eventually poisoned you. Maybe you had some bad experiences with men before, and I guarantee you all your experiences with men will be bad from now on until you get this handled.

“Misandry isn’t all that bad. Technically, women can handle more things than men can. They can have children, have a job, and cook. Out of those three, men can only do two. That is proof that women are more useful than men.
You shouldn’t whine about how feminism is on television and how men are getting a little bit bashed. Almost every religion in the world bashes women, and men have NEVER had a Sexist Ceiling put over their heads. Just because it’s our turn to get some respect around here, doesn’t mean you stupid men have any right to come and say that it’s not fair. It’s not fair how women have been treated the past centuries. IT’S OUR TURN NOW, LITTLE BOYS.
Go home and cry, because we’re not your little puppets anymore”

I can feel the hate in your voice. If women are so smart and men are so stupid how come the computer you’re using, the phone you use, every single thing you enjoy, was invented by MALES.

Its not whining about feminism its that feminism is a lie, men are physically different to women, this is fact, if you want women ruling the world, acting like men, you also want the death of the human race, you just don’t realise it.

Women still can’t reason, or use logic, 90% of you don’t think beyond emotion, and you wanna rule the world?

Also if they want women to act like men they also want the death of the feminine women so therefore there would be no female kind just men some with lady parts! What a crap world that would be. Why do they want to rid the world of the feminine? Doesn’t make sense.

Perhaps they want to rid the world of the feminine because men have used feminine behavior as “proof” that women are weaker than men and therefore do not deserve to be treated equally or with respect. The worst insult you can make to a boy is to call him feminine. To suggest that he’s a “Nancy.” Change the way YOU view the feminine and women won’t be so anxious to destroy that which has been used against them for so long.

Most men and women cannot think beyond emotion but this creates balance as logic itself is unforgiving and detached. Emotions manifest themselves differently in people depending on their hormone balance. Beyond the sex chromosomes that determine the gonads there really isn’t any difference between men and women. Typically as a result of their differing gonads women have more estrogen and men have more testosterone. This results in women more often displaying their emotions deceitfully and men displaying theirs aggressively. Our hormonal balance also determines sexual dimorphism otherwise known as the physical differences between men and women. This begins with the development of the gonads then genitalia during pregnancy and reemerges during puberty.

I think both, but Donald Perry. Hate of the opposite gender is pointless. Its like hating your family for not all being the same gender. We should all be more like the sea horse. Males give birth. Imagine if human males did… than roles would be reversed and a women would be saying what I am… OMG could it be that both sides should… STFU and accept evolution and natural selection as it is?

MissDemeanor: Do you really think you’re a happy person? For all your pomp and circumstance, you don’t sound happy. Did you think your childish retort will make you or anyone else happy? Or convince anyone to change their opinions. If you do, you really are the fool you come across as.
…

Some of the comments (by men) on this page are clearly misogynistic and even outright delusional. That said, there’s also a lot of thoughtful, poignant comments here. The trouble is, we ALL (men and women) have to fight through life and there are many sources of injustice or perceived injustice. And sometimes unfair systems come about inadvertantly or merely get exploited by the few (current divorce laws are NOT perpetuated by most women, only a minority or very selfish women). So what’s the answer? Well, we have to fight these injustices, of course, but also consider that they may not be examples of sexism (or racism or ageism) but merely problems to correct.

PS. Name calling (‘little boys’), really? Do you REALLY think that would make you sound intelligent?

What a stupid comment! Are having chilren, cooking, and working at a job the only activities humans engage in. And when did women start having babies without be fertilized by a man; even religious mythology requires some male god to fertize the female.

As somebody once said (and it might have been me) ‘Nobody wants a juggler flying the plane they’re on’.

The ‘meme’ that has been around since the eighties and may well be tracable to an article in Cosmopolitan (as many populist-feminist ‘truth-memes’ about men can be) that ‘women are good at multitasking’ can be readily re-interpreted as ‘women have attention deficit disorder’.

Be advised that no meme masquerading as truth can survive such ridicule.
Feminists are already well aware of their successes in ridiculing the conceits of gender-loyal men in this regard. It’s time to take the same medicine, sistas

Discrimination in any form is terrible, whether it’s misogyny, misandry, racism, or based on sexual preference.
I dislike misogynists and misandrists, and racists, and homophobes, but my particular reason for my dislike of misandrists, is because typically a misandrist will be a feminist also, and most feminists purport to be for gender equality and for the abolishment of the sexist qualities within society. But for this to occur wouldn’t the respect need to go both ways? If what it is that you are proposing really does come to happen (I.e. the switching of roles) will this in actual fact solve anything at all?
What will this achieve?
Will there be equality?
Now I agree with your statement about how the treatment of women over past centuries is wrong, but is it any less wrong for the same treatment to be handed on to men?
What you’re calling for is vengeance, not equality- “an eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind”.

I would like to say, my mother happens to fail at the having or raising children part. If anything, my father is way better than her. I would be in an orphanage if not for him and his family. I am absolutely disgusted with the way mothers and fathers are portrayed on TV. Men are always the ones to be dead-beats and terrible, women on the other hand are treat as if they are saints. I am a woman and find this revolting.

Your turn for what sweetie? Women will never dictate to men the way we can to women. Just because the government has imposed forced equality upon us doesn’t mean you can change biology.
Without imposed forced equality measures and birth control, women would have no leverage over men at all. In fact, soon enough, men will have equal leverage over their own reproductive systems just like women do now. When this happens, you will lose the biggest advantage you have over men right now; birth control. Men will dictate when and how families will occur, not women. When women turn around to fulfill their true biological destiny after going after careers, they’ll be lucky to find men interested in them. You are one nutty broad Miss Demeanor, but you have no power over men.

You ought to realise that some women nowadays never want to reproduce; some view it as liberating not to have the burden of pregnancy and birth, just like some men do not want to father any children. It’s an individual’s decision. Men can’t ‘dictate’ anything fully and neither can women. You might try to reproduce, but you might not succeed. Men can impregnate but they can’t 100% determine whether a pregnancy goes full term or not. Women will decide that or their state of health will determine it. Your biological “destiny”, as a male of any species, is to inseminate as many females as possible and then die, which is one reason why men’s DNA telomeres are shorter than women’s, and also one reason why more males are often born per thousand of any species. But as humans, unlike other mammals, most of us are driven by more than our instinct to reproduce. We are gifted with mental faculties that allow us to establish harmonious give-and-take relationships with the opposite gender, and not simply to think in ultra simplistic terms of who has most control over reproduction, and who is most disadvantaged by a biological system. LMFAO. Dear oh dear.

Once Feminism achieved the goals of their suffragette forbears in the developed world, the term “equality” gradually became an irrelevance. Die-hard Feminists realised; like all dictators, despots and all other maniacal revolutionaries, that once you have a following, a so-called mandate, there is no reason to stop – Why not take it a step further, further…., further, hey this is good, let’s see how far we can go.

Meanwhile underdeveloped nations still crippled by primitive cultural/religious traditions still see their sisters suffering unbelievable torment and genocide. Where are our liberated glass-ceiling-shattering amazons of sisterhood, when their sisters (fuck that, lets say fellow humans) are being mutilated, abandoned and honour-killed?

I’ll tell you where: They are either still in the divorce courts trying to squirm prostitution fees for their failed marriages or the less intelligent are in the shopping malls squandering their children’s futures.

With the stigmatised words ‘Communist’, ‘Nazi’, ‘Misogynist’ having been widely thrown about over the last forty years, I seriously wonder whether there are any humans left who care about humanity and its place in this tiny planet?

As a heterosexual male (waiting for the snide Fem. putdowns), I have always held more women friends than men. Whilst enjoying some close male bonding and the celebration of masculinity (so misunderstood by educated professionals), I prefer my close friends to be women. Throughout my life, I have always chosen women to befriend, employ and confide in. I have found that whilst male friends are honest they are rarely loyal. I do not believe that women are loyal by nature but have always found continued support from my women friends.

By that I mean real women – Women who love being women and do not want to be men. These women understand Nature’s incongruencies and are not frightened by the opposite gender. In fact from what I have learnt; Real women command respect in all functioning societies, except for those which choose to abandon all natural laws.

This I think is the real problem with Feminism: Women who probably are more hormonally akin to males have been demanding that the female nature (generous, sensitive, understanding and perhaps compliant) become more defensive, aggressive and intolerant of characteristics which they do not like or understand. It is a shame these (mostly educated) women do not understand the Darwinian principles of evolution. With just a hundred years of free politics, our society has unleashed a hateful monster of gender-political hegemony, which aims to negate the centuries of brilliant work by diligent and devoted scientists.

And there was I thinking that humanity was actually evolving?

Let’s face it, Feminism has become a blight on all (western) humanity and like Communism and Nazism, will take some time to uncover, reveal and expose. If the vicious bitches were seriously interested in helping women all over the world, I would be less inclined to criticise the next generation and their proponents of greed.

> ** > bifocal commented: “The politics of hating the opposite gender Once > Feminism achieved the goals of their suffragette forbears in the developed > world, the term “equality” gradually became an irrelevance. Die-hard > Feminists realised; like all dictators, despots and all ot” >

You never were “puppets” stupid bitch men have been your “puppets” for centuries, men have always been and always will be a disposable utility in war, industry, the work force, and marriage for self entitled arrogant supremist females such as yourself.

Women can’t have a child without men and good luck raising the little bastard when the unappreciated father leaves you because “all men are too incompetent to raise children”. You are a puppet because you are supporting a contradictory cause. Gender is an unimportant coin toss. Get over your genitalia.

What you appear to not understand is that the ONLY reason that you provide is that women are better because they can give birth. That is due to evolution of the human species. Women tolerate more pain because of ancestors developing a resistance to pain for child birth. Saying that makes women better than men shows a lack of knowledge, how this can be seen as proof of being better is unfathomable to the educated mass of human beings (both male and female). Following that; the past is the past, leave it there in terms of your ideas. Me personally, I am a nerd/geek. I was bullied so much I tried to kill myself more than once. Who were the people making me feel this way? Both male and female, and to be honest the females hurt the most to me for they never told me why they hated me or wanted me dead, the only time I interacted with them due to my own accord was when I would hold the door open for them. To move to another note; saying women have been bashed for centuries is true, but not correct for current times. It is common to hear about how men treat women terrible, they are scum, and society only helps men. Last I checked, a man was human and a woman was human. So quit your ranting about how men are animals, women never get credit, women are better in all ways, and blah blah blah. If the male gender was so unneeded, than natural selection would have made humans asexual. So quit bashing men and putting all men down, and vice versa. Now, when you say and I quote, “It’s our time now, little boys. Go home and cry, because we’re not your little puppets anymore.”… I am sorry but you clearly seem blinded by vanity and wrath. On another note, religion… why would you bring that up? To try and make a point? Lets see how well that works in debates. I see myself as a feminist personally, but what you are talking about is just hate. Hate blinds all from the truth. It was people like you that cause me pain in school. It was the lack of understanding and compromise that lead to your think headed idealism. I am not saying that men throughout all of “history” are innocent. Problems have been caused I will admit, but to label every male as lesser? Just shows why humans are the way we are, why the world is dying, why life is ending so fast, and why humans will never come together to fix what they have caused. Because people of male and female think the other is terrible. If you truly feel that the opposite gender is so repulsive and terrible, than go off yourself. Because you are a waste of resources that the world can’t afford.

Since you seem to have all the answers Miss Demeanor. Do Misandry women hate gay guys or women who became men? I am asking because these men are different in terms of the brain. Does that mean you want them dead because they have a penis?

Sorry MissDe{MEAN)or, can’t have a child without the seed that is just as important as the egg and BTW, that seed inside a man is a product of his mother too and not just a male thing. Now, you must be God if you can argue against this. Again, no seed, no child.

While you were kept safe, we were dying in droves ensuring foreign enemies didn’t reach you.

While you were expected to honor a social contract and keep a home, we were the ones building civilization and doing the hazardous jobs that no woman even today will consider doing, despite all the cries for equality.

We’re stupid?

We’re smart enough to call a spade a spade,
a losing proposition a sucker bet,

and a totally unlovable loud-mouthed bitch a bitch.

We’re smart enough to see you for who you are, and stay away from you.

Through technological innovation, men have steadily limproved the lives of men, women and children. Feminist activists always focus on the criminal men because otherwise attention would be drawn to the absence of female contribution to invention and the construction of civilization.

It may seem rude, but I need to ask this honestly-have other black women or even women at all in this generation really been so nice to you after all if they were too different in social class, skin tone, all of the above? I am a questionably black woman from North Philadelphia and some of the people most black women must be the most scared of there and not white or black men, but other black women (the thug type ones.) These are also some of the most sexually predatory people around on men, then when men reject them women and children…actually, some of the nicest men and the most empathetic ones to everyone if you just give them kindness and respect are Muslim brothers such as Kareem Abdul Jabbar who is Yoruba through his mother and Mandingo through his father with Native American and white mixed somewhere back in the middle lines. Just something to think about. He was Islamically married to both a white and black sister and took care of business and still does and if there was a cat fight, it never hit the media. Please, just think about this for a minute before you get mad at me.

It’s great to hear from a sister who doesn’t buy this white female and lesbian feminist extremism. I asked a black woman who was experiencing discrimination whether the problem was gender related and she said, “He can’t get pass my race to deal with my gender.” I also attended a conference moderated by a white female and her white co-host, and a black female who came to explain the legal aspects of the progam we came to be informed about. When a white trated her with disrespect starting with “I’m not a lawyer, but…” neither the female moderators or the other women there, all of whom were white, raised any objection and sat there allowing him to attack her credentials and professional expertise. Further an Unpublished EEOC study inicated that the real beneficiaries of Civil Rights legislation were white men over 40 years of age and white females of any age. White women regularly step on black women to team up with white men to maintain their priviliged positions.

Oh yeah, men have it so much harder. Had to fight and die in wars to protect the women? Who started the wars???? Not women, I assure you. Women are certainly as capable as men of doing the civilisation building and hazardous jobs but they don’t – why? Because the men stop them doing it. I have no problem with the majority of men and women on this planet who treat everyone equally, its the minority who think that one or other gender is less intelligent/strong/capable than the other that cause the problems.

I’m sorry, but the idea that women are being held back in society is complete bullshit. I’m a Sr. engineering student, and I can tell you right now all the girls who do want to study that stuff drop out or change their majors after their Freshman year. You want to know why?

Math is too hard, they say. I applaud the 2.5% who do stick around and survive it all the way through the program. Those are the ONLY women in my opinion who can make the argument you are making.

The truth of the matter is women determine their own careers, and they can do higher-level jobs that men do if they want to. The problem though is that most don’t want to. Whether you want to accept it or not, you are the source of your own problems. If you don’t like your course or track in life, then get off the couch staring at your Iphone and TV and work for it.

If you want better paying jobs as a lawyer, doctor, CEO, architect, or engineer. They get out there and do it. Prove us men wrong that you actually can study and work hard.

That’s the whole point. Women need not start wars they are the reason for wars. If women weren’t attracted to powerful men there won’t be wars. It was the duty of men to protect their women in any event. It is laughable that you say men stop women from doing hazardous jobs seriously? How many women are ready to jump in and enroll as firefighters? How many women are ready to enroll as mechanics? Construction workers?

Do you seriously intend to do hazardous job? Be my guest lady, enroll yourself to one of these professions.

It’s amazing the ignorance and stupidity being written by this person who is advocating for sexism and hate, talking about how women have been treated for the past centuries as if she was alive for any of it or that men alive today had anything to do with the past . . . absolutely idiotic. Misandry is every bit as wrong as misogyny. It is amazing how distorted feminism has become. I think the word “feminism” is outdated and sexist because it is obviously favoring one gender over the other and it has turned into a kindergarten “girls against the boys” club; “equalitarianism” is much more intelligent and mature. There are plenty of areas in our society where men are not treated as equal which are never looked at, much less corrected. You will also never see any of these “supposedly” equality seeking “feminists” advocating for change where women are advantaged over men. It is not right that the media hypes words like sexism, racism, prejudice and discrimination, but then generates more by showing only one version of it in our society( a little blip here and there does not count.) People can try to twist some logic to advocate for why that is, but deep down they know it’s true and every bit as wrong and a continuation of the same problems. Sexism, racism, prejudice and discrimination is wrong no matter who it is coming from or who is the victim of it; People should really think about what these words mean, instead of seeing and thinking about what is the cliché currently toted around.

Jerel wrote ” You will also never see any of these “supposedly” equality seeking “feminists” advocating for change where women are advantaged over men.”

You meant to write disadvantaged, right?

Don’t be mislead by the word equality in the definition of Feminism. Feminist equality is about all women sharing the wealth with the upper 20% of men while completely ignoring the remaining 80% of men in the socioeconomic distribution. There is not a single Feminist advocating that women work longer hours and take more dangerous jobs to match the income of men. Rather, they advocate a change in social values such that the work that women favor (safe, comfortable, daytime, close-to-home, fixed hour, reduced hour) is valued more coupled with protections that would then prevent men from competing for those jobs.

This is the ‘reactionary’ in ‘reactionary feminism’. It’s the reason why many men, having completely accepted the general feminist historical analysis (that women have been suppressed) have been alienated from the ‘equality’ agenda.
This is not the fault of the equality agenda or the principle of equality and no-one should be led into thinking that is anti-equality because of it. (that would just be to prove the reactionaries’ point by yourself becoming a tit-for-tat reactionary).

Rather, seeing the utter transparency of male and female supremacists (as SOME of these ‘male rights’ and ‘feminist’ activists should properly be called), it is vital to TURN THEM OFF.
Unless of course you’re a fan of fear-mongering politicians and misery-mongering talk radio hosts, as these people are equivalent to.

Currently lacking is a new term for ‘men and women working together’. It would be a start to revealing that there is a huge section of the population doing just this. What they need is space to work in. What they’re getting is a journey through a playground where rotten fruit is being thrown in both directions.

You make a key point about women’s advodcates seeking advantages over men. One that galls me is it is discriminatory to charge women more for health insurance when they incur more medical expenses than men, but it is okay to charge men more for life insurance because men have shorter lifespans struggling to cater to women’s demands. This advantage may disappear as women want to be the CEO and be hired for positions they aren’t qualified for and go out and face the rat race while their husbaands, if they have them can sit home and do the far less demanding and stressful job of naintaaining a houseful, thr ;life expectancy differences are narrowing. That relates to another discrepancy that is a danger to both men and women; why is it that people are getting heavier and more overweight, likting standards are firefighter are lowered to sccommodate hiring more women? Wait until you needf to be rescued from a burning building and woman they send to rescue you can’t do her job.

Donald Perry wrote “One that galls me is it is discriminatory to charge women more for health insurance when they incur more medical expenses than men, but it is okay to charge men more for life insurance because men have shorter lifespans struggling to cater to women’s demands. ”

Correct. In a group plan provided by an employer, it is discriminatory to charge women more even though they consume the bulk of health services. Of course, that doesn’t include pregnancy. Women simply consume more psychological counseling services as well as regular female-specific examinations.

I forgot pregnancy control, since when couples are steady all the resposibility of avoiding unwanted pregnancies is put on women, telling them to take pills which affect the natural functions of metabolism.

I leave casual relationships aside because we have to admit men are the ones using the condoms then
although most women take pills

There is no problem with women needing more health insurance. Just package up everything that women want in a health plan, call it VagiSmartIndepdentWomanMaxx, and charge women accordingly. If men are charged more as a group for auto and life insurance because men are more expensive to insure, why aren’t women charged more for health insurance. The truth is that for individual policies, women are charged more. The issue is that in a group plan, it is illegal to charge men and women differently. This means that men are charged more for fewer services.

You make an excellent assessment of the destructive influence of feminism. This generation of young people have been twisted by this pseudo-philosophy and relationships between the genders set on a adversarial course which will damage domestic and societal relationships far into the future. Young men are being alienated from the general society and prevented from forming productive partnerships with their female counterparts, while young women are being turned into belligerent misandrists.

From what I understand, women were seen as lesser because of the bible and the fact that centuries ago, childbirth was dangerous and would KILL the mother. The people back than were just dumb. But as I can tell some people just aren’t smart enough to understand what time is. I agree with Jeral here. I have a girlfriend who I treat well in public and private. I love her because of who she is. If she was like this than I would never have found love. She hates herself and I hate myself. We both come from painful pasts.

I am ashamed of your behavior in using false generalizations and in disrespecting members of the sex opposite of your own.

Almost none of the statements you made were true or helpful.

Although, they did display a lot of fear. Which is somewhere to start, at least. Each of you has understandable grievances which I respect.

Also, to the person who said women don’t stand up for men when men have their rights infringed upon: I personally know women (plural) who speak out often about injustice for men in the rights to their children.

Well said, Anonymous.
There are plenty of people to whom ‘gender loyalty’ is as crazy a concept as ‘loyalty to those with the same forename’.
Most people aren’t even ‘species-loyal’. Some prefer cats, some dogs.
God knows their fights are honest and they don’t write books about them.
😉

I agree. I happen to be loyal I think. But have I been hurt my men? Yes a lot of times. Do I want all men dead or do I hate them now? Nope. In my life, I have been hurt more by women (like me) who steal guys from me and spread lyes about me. Just accept the species. For me please

Having worked countless factory jobs I have experienced first hand the horror of what really is the most monstrous human﻿ rights atrocity I have ever known.

Men are clearly considered at best a tool, subhuman and readily disposed.

Men typically experience hardship from all angles of society, well supported by constant vomiting of hate crime that is disseminated via media, notably British influenced and funded by elitists to gain power via destroyed families.

I agree 100% with Anonymous (June 3). How ignorant for the above commenters to independently categorize the other ‘half’ of the world. Good people and bad people are of both sexes, and the factors (apart from biological) that go into shaping those individuals are complex and plentiful.

Moses: why would you want to control women? Isn’t the need to control an emotional issue? Are you perhaps contradicting yourself, and perpetuating sexism that is not helping anyone?

Miss Demeanor: Einstein was a man. Frank Lloyd Right was a man. Shakespear was a man. etc, etc, etc. Men are not “stupid.” Neither are women. Sure, the social position of the sexes in history may have allowed men advantages in education, etc, but that does not mean they are stupid. One man cannot control the entirety of a social situation.

Also: men gave their lives in 9/11 to save people. And gave up their seats to women when the Titanic was going down, and died. And went into the mines to get our resources, our diamonds. Men have heroically protected our countries, and have independently stood up to tyranny, like the Tank Man in Tienanmen Square, 1989. He “disappeared” after doing what was right, because it was right. Don’t rob men of their choice to reach the potential they have proven they can reach. I hold the same feelings for women as well, and until you do too, equity will never become popularized.

I agree with the last comment. No one has it right. Both forms of discrimination and hatred are wrong. When we learn to stop judging people for things that are completely random such as their biological sex, their race etc, then we will be able to build a better world. This constant fighting of who did what to whom or who is better or more intelligent is ridiculous and childish! Remove all the men or remove all the women and humanity doesn’t stand a chance. We always seem to find ways to bully and belittle each other which is rather sad. Let’s REALLY stop being ignorant and stupid and get to know people before we judge them. For things that truly matter, not for things that can’t be helped or changed.

Let’s keep things in perspective. Sure, hate in either direction is wrong and destructive to our society. But when you have institutionalized hatred against men, the other half the population, that is a problem of a much greater magnitude. People simply do not know the facts. Sheer mention of the words “domestic violence” arouses hateful emotion towards men. I am tired of feeling like I need to feel ashamed of myself because I am a male. We men are tired of walking on egg shells all the time. 99% of the military personal who give their lives on the battle field are men. Yet, people like Hillary Clinton say that the women are the ones who really doing the sacrificing.

Men like you are what will save us. The feminist propaganda machine has worked hard to marginalize and devalue anything male. We must not allow this to continue. Misandry has become the norm for western society. The culture has been turned upside down to prepare the way for female hegemony.

We as women, should kill all men, extract their sperm for artificial insemination. We do not need men, they are morally, corrupt, which has had a devestating effect on our society as a whole. Stop letting these useless wastes of human life molest our children, rape our women, abuse, neglect, cheat, lie, and must I go on and on?!?!?!!?? Ladies, we all know the truth about men. They never should have existed in the first place!! They truely are scum!!! If it were a perfect world, we would re-create the male gene to no longer exist, and find a way to procreate without them! Ladies, if you love penetration during sex…then get with a girl who likes using a strap on! Its better than sex with men!!! I can guarantee it!!! “Lets Keep It Anti- Man!!!!!!!!!”

Laura wrote “We as women, should kill all men, extract their sperm for artificial insemination. We do not need men, ”

So, why do men need women? Maternal services? Men will invent the artificial womb, but before that, institutionalized surrogate services will grow. Sexual gratification? HD porn is just beginning to emerge, offering men at every income level the opportunity to see and interact with a variety of women that offer a sexual experience that nearly no women are able to offer. Virtual porn is in its infancy, but will offer unimagineable experiences. At that point, female sexual leverage will be reduced, and women will be forced to compete directly with men.

Lara, Blah Blah Blah, and all women are bitches etc etc. You are entitled to your sad misandristic feminist(sexist) views, but only if you also think men should be allowed to kill all women, as they are “morally corrupt, which has had a devestating effect on our society as a whole. Men should stop letting these useless wastes of human life corrupt our children, nag our hard-working men, leach, abuse, neglect, cheat, lie, must I go on and on?!?!?!!??

No I won’t, I am not a woman.

PS. How do you get pregnant so you can claim your paternity support with a strap on??

This is typical of the feminist mind. Don’t actually contribute anything to the world, rather just wait for the opportune moment to take the fruits of male labour. Feminists want everyone to believe that they can can do it for themselves, but despite this, their parasitic nature reveals itself when they actively persue the theft of male energy. Yes, Laura, it’s possible for women to propogate themselves without sperm, due to advances in technology primarily the result of male endevours. But read on, you might learn something yet. Has it ever crossed your mind that there might be deeper reasons behind natures tendancy to express every species as TWO different sexes?

Women are gifted with two ‘X’ chromosomes, which help ensure that the majority of abnormalities will avoid being expressed as a ginetic defect (recessive genes are usually over-ruled by healthy genes in the opposite chromosome), and in return the woman will bare the responsibilities and pain of child birth.

Men have an X chromosome, and a much smaller Y chromosome. The smaller amount of genes on the Y chromosome drastically increase the likely-hood of inferior and/or superior genes expressing themselves in the male. Most ginetic defects are expressed in baby boys be they subtle or obvious, reducing the likelyhood that they will live long enough to reproduce. There is also the higher likely-hood of the reverse, where superior genes aren’t held back by mediocre ones, causing a higher incidence of geniuses in males than in females. Men also have testosterone, which causes them to push their mental and physical abilties further than a women can. Testosterone increases the rate at which inferior genes are weeded out as men take on the lions share of risk in day-to-day life. With the exception of single-celled organisms, the bearers of the Y chromosome are the protectors as well as the Research & Development wing for every species to come out of mother natures kitchen. If through some disaster men were to all die out leaving women, nature would never forgive it, she always balances her books.

– for those still reading –
On a seperate note, if women want more acknowledgement for the efforts of their own gender (and there is every bit as much that is praisworthy in women as there is men), the best way for them to get it is to ACTIVELY weed out imaturity such as Laura’s from within their own ranks. e.g. If Laura was under physical attack from a male, it’s more than likely that the police officer or passer-by that restrains said male is another male.
As a guy, I can safely say that a world without women would be unimaginable, and nothing makes me more grateful than seeing some random woman interject herself on a males behalf when misandry is in action.

I know this reply is a tad late, but I felt compelled to reply to your comment, that is, assuming if you get to read this message. Anyway, with all due respect, your way of thinking is unhealthy and dangerous. How can you say that about men? Any woman who says “Death to all men” is obviously mentally unstable and the same goes to any man who says, “Death to all women”.

I have no problems with Feminism because I am a male who is a Feminist. I was raised by a Feminist mother and Feminist father who taught me that while men and women are different in some aspects with different strengths and weaknesses, they should nonetheless be treated as equals and with mutual respect. Now, having said that, my problem is not with Feminism, it is Misandry and the Misandrists that I have a problem with. Misandry is as bad as Misogyny and I have seen the media in all its mediums portray men as weak, sissy, sexist, malignant, creepy pedophiles. But the truth is, there is good and bad everywhere, meaning that there still many, many great men out there who know how to properly treat women and have retained their masculinity at the same time, and I am one of them.

Just like there is a difference between Feminism and Misandry, the same can be said that there is a difference between Gentlemen and Jerks. My heart goes out to all the women on the planet who have been physically, mentally, verbally, and emotionally abused by jerks, and I profoundly apologize on their behalf since they are incapable of doing so themselves simply because they don’t know any better. BUT, that doesn’t mean you should take it out on us gentlemen for their misdeeds. You wanted to earn the right to vote, work, and earn the same amount of pay like us gentlemen, and rightfully so. You wanted to be treated like equals, fair enough.

However, that doesn’t give you the right to downgrade gentlemen. You say you want equality, well, what kind of equality is this?!? Misandry is not equality, it is sexism on a whole new level and you misandrists have already proven time and time again that women are no better than men. In other words, you have learned the wrong lessons. You think you are promoting equality, but in reality, what you are promoting is hate, specifically, Misandry, the inherent hatred of men. Hate as well as extremism on any level such as against sex or sexual orientation, creed, race, color, nationality, religion, age, etc is always wrong and must be opposed.

This is the USA and we live in the 21st Century, and it is our civil right, duty, and obligation as Americans to set the highest standards for ourselves and for the sake of children, our children’s children, and the rest of the world. Despite the fact that we are currently living in very dark times in the Post 9/11 era, there is still so much love and hope in the world, filled with wonderful and admirable people. Don’t let the jerks, news and media bring your day down. Be and think positive, not just because it is the right thing to do, but do it also for the sake of your health, you’ll live a long, happy, and fruitful live if you do. I sincerely hope that you find it in your heart to let go of your hatred and find the courage within yourself to climb out of the darkness and back into the light. I wish you well.

Though you make some good points you’re too much of a bleeding heart white knight. I used to think similarly to you but then I realised that labelling everyone and apologizing for everything wasn’t making much sense of reality. Reality doesn’t care about good or bad, positive or negative, pessimism or optimism. We live in a cruel unforgiving world that we can enjoy by indulging in pleasures or searching for truth. Too many people get caught up in enjoying life and forget that being positive alone does not solve every problem. They create the expectation that everyone should be positive which is contradictory because it assumes that negativity is negative. I know you want to flush out that hate and anger in this world but you should instead focus on accepting and understanding these negative emotions. Demanding an angry person to stop being angry will only make them angrier.

i had no idea that my waking existence was totally devoted to molesting children, rapng women, abuse, neglect, cheating , and lying. damn.. good thing we’ve got laura to enlighten us all. I hereby resolve to change my ways from this way onward. Thanks Laura… you’ve done the world and all of mankind a benevolent service. How can we ever repay you for your wisdom and insight?

Me too! I had no idea I was meant to rape everything that moves, touch every child, and destroy all that I touch. I knew I was doing it wrong when I tried to help other people. If only you could help all men do things right. Think about it. All of history men have fuck and destroyed the world. WW1 and WW2. There were no guns, men just humped each other into submission clearly. Thanks Laura! (P.S. Trolling was used here. and above me.)

“We as women, should kill all men, extract their sperm for artificial insemination. We do not need men, they are morally, corrupt, which has had a devestating effect on our society as a whole. Stop letting these useless wastes of human life molest our children, rape our women, abuse, neglect, cheat, lie, and must I go on and on?!?!?!!?? Ladies, we all know the truth about men. They never should have existed in the first place!! They truely are scum!!! If it were a perfect world, we would re-create the male gene to no longer exist, and find a way to procreate without them! Ladies, if you love penetration during sex…then get with a girl who likes using a strap on! Its better than sex with men!!! I can guarantee it!!! “Lets Keep It Anti- Man!!!!!!!!!”
OMG!
Do you realize how hateful and mentally ill you really sound? I hope you do not work with children of either sex, nor in the mental health system, nor in the prison system, nor a lot of systems that are supposed to uplift humanity. Unfortunately, it seems to me you just might be delusional enough to think you should do such jobs. At age 11 I lived in a kiddie shelter on Columbia Road in DC-and I wasn’t afraid of being raped by any of the men who worked there; I was actually more afraid of the older girls there. I also had a female caseworker at that time who mentally molested me and if though she didn’t start sexually yet, I bet by the time I turned 18 or actually agreed enough with her it would have started. I love women who actually enjoy being women like I do (yes, I do enjoy being a female and unapologetically feminine-and you would seem to have a problem with that in and of itself) but this was what I had endured NOT from men, from WOMEN. Just something to think about…I happen to LOVE the real thing. I tried a toy with myself, it just didn’t feel good enough and I couldn’t even get it inside me. Now, the brother with the same size and hardness with that feels dynamite-and I have been told I am tight…by the way, he’s even bigger than that toy.

These women are in government, and trying to get higher in position where they can impact policy and legislation. They also work extensively in child care, daycare, and the education system. These women (who want the destruction of men) hate it when they are compared to Nazis. But if they keep going down the path they are on and somehow garner support for their vile agenda, they will need to be stopped, just like the Nazis were. And that means at any cost. Thing is, radical feminsts have yet to build a realistic model of how they will run and FUEL and “automate” this new manless utopian strap-on society of theirs.

Spoken like a true lesbian. You have no right to complain about violence against women while you advocate violence against men. I hope no man is ever stuck with a frigid evil, hate-filled bitch like you as a spouse because even lesbians sometimes get married.

No, not “spoken by a true lesbian”. What is it with you folks and saying “spoken like a true [fill in the blank]”? Aren’t we trying to do away with stereotypes and generalizations?? Lesbians aren’t man haters either. The only thing that makes a lesbian a lesbian is sexual attraction to other women. Not political views, not weird fantasies of killing off men, not fantasies of castration… Come on, folks. Let’s stop stooping to these levels and think logically about stuff. Even the crazy stuff.

You are the most screwed up piece of feminist crap I have ever seen. Oh and another thing, since feminism preaches “equality” does that mean, in your sick view, men should kill all women as well? It sure sounds like it. Idiot.

Ha good one Laura, “Kill all men” Ha that is trolling if I have ever heard or seen it. You make me laugh at your lack of neural comprehension. Kill all men. Even better lets go back in time and kill your father! I love trolling to. Maybe men should do a matrix thing and make all women live in this happy little bubble on the matrix and than harvest humans from them! Great ideas all around! HAHAHA! Oh I feel so silly now hahaha

Your comments BTW are Illegal and therefore could get you into trouble even if written, just as they do your enemy the “jerks”. You must hate the male whose seed brought you into this world. Unthinkable – unimaginable – unbelievable. I am incredibly sorry for you especially since once many years ago you were a little innocent child…think about this please.

Laura is a bitter person ..obviously.
Laura would not be in a position to voice her small minded opinion if it were not for men and the inventions that men have created….including the computer and internet that she likes so well.
It would be so much fun to simply take the tool away from her….including all the other tools we have given women….just take them away and let us see how they can live without us.
It would be so self satisfying if the Laura’s of the world were to be put out in the middle of the forrest and let them live without men…to live without all the modern gadgets and convienences and comforts that men have provided women with.
When will the Laura’s of the world learn to recognise and omit that the comfort zone that women live in is the result of mans creativity and the endeavours of men.

Like I have said to many people before ..including women: “There will come a time when men will get in thier MAN MADE space craft, invented by men and leave all the women behind for another planet…saying good ridence to all the ungratefull sows and female parasites.

It is absurd that women simply refuse to recognise thier lot in life was and will continue to be dependant on men.
90% of what they enjoy in life, all those creature comforts they have in their lives comes from what men have provided them throughout time and continue to do so.
How would the Laura’s of the world like to have the tools and means that men have provided women taken away and leave women on thier own.
Should we Boycott women…..maybe we should.
Maybe we should do like they do in the military when one soldier or a few other soldiers screw things up and the commander punishes all the other soldiers as the means to correct the problem because all the other soldiers suffer the punishment and the soldiers themselves quickly correct the offenders and resolve the situation.
Maybe we should take away all the comforts and tools and inventons ..everything….we have provided to women and keep them all too ourselves and when the women ask:”Why are you doing this..”why do you stopping sharing with us” ..”why have you taken away everything that you always provided for us”?
Then Men can point at Laura and all the other Laura’s of the world and let Laura deal with ALL the really pissed off, legitimately angry BITTER women who will quickly correct the small minded Laura’s of the world….the reason and source of womens new found misery.
Let all the other women deal with the likes of Laura and see how long Laura lasts.
When will logic prevail within the ranks of Laura’s kind of thinking.
Forfunately most women are not like Laura and we know that most women reject her thinking and realize the harm she can and is doing to society with her way of thinking.
Laura is the poster girl for small minded female thinking.
Laura certainly does not represent the vast majority of women in the world and never will.

WE women haven’ t been allowed to invent things. We have been suppressed and stuck in the kitchen .If we were allowed the time and support u men are given, we would have invented a lot more things than u lot
.http://www.buzzle.com/articles/inventions-by-women.html
A woman invented the fridge and the microelectrode.So there!
You ignorant ,arrogant men.
I wanted to be an aircraft designer and had more qualifications than the men around me but wasn’t allowed to be because I was a woman.!!!!!

I call BS on Jadzia’s comment bellow. Women are NOT ALLOWED to invent? Women barely represent science and technology in Universities – they are all taking liberal-arts and social engineering courses from man-hating politlcal lesbians. Again, you feminists are looking at the world 300 years ago and using it as an excuse to always have a way to completely shirk any accountability for your OWN CHOICES. I really want to see the (engineering) models of how the radical feminsts are going to “automate” their manless society… maybe by attaching monkey brains to machine… or with magical Wiccan spells. We all know they secretly fantasize about an underground slave camp where men are whipped as they toil for the ulmight pussy like a big “Temple of Feminist Doom”. That’s the nice thing about these women – their threats to exterminate men are as hollow as their plans to “automate” the world once men are eliminated. I am very sorry their dads or uncles abused them or whatever made them man haters, but these people are simply broken and a horrible side effect of a crime we all must take a closer look at. To get less man hating feminists, we must hold men accountable who prey on women and children. Interestingly, the left wing (largely SUPPORTED by women) is claiming to end patriarchy and stifle capitalism while their OWN elected lawmakers set child rapists and child killers free, and give pedophiles a slap on the wrist. Women are creating their own undoing, and blaming it (as always) on men.

That’s a short list for the hundreds of millions of women that have lived in the US for the last 150 years. I won’t pick on the list too much because it’s from Feminist literature, but there are many men listed as the inventors of key technologies of the modern refrigerator decades before. You may find Parpart’s patent filed listed with her husband as an inventor.

If you read the joint application, it’s a tweak for refrigerator efficiency.

Not much seems to be going on during the 1980s and 90s for women even though they have been “out of the kitchen” for at least 50 years. Men have not kept women out of invention. Instead, very few women are interested in invention. Most male inventors do their best work before the age of 30, so child-bearing is not an excuse for an American population.

“I wanted to be an aircraft designer and had more qualifications than the men around me but wasn’t allowed to be because I was a woman.!!!!!”

Lmao. Problem with this mentality, is that if women took away everything they’ve ever given to the world back, then 100% of all “man-made” things wouldn’t exist either.

Let’s remember the interdependence of humans on each other. Perhaps historically men have created the majority of inventions. Whether or not this is true I don’t want to take the time to debate this here. What I will say is that even if all inventions ever were created by man, could it be assumed that those things wouldn’t exist today if we didn’t have men?

Not necessarily. It’s obviously an impossible social experiment. Perhaps had women not been confined to the home and told that all they were good for was popping out babies and sating the sexual lust of males, perhaps they would have been the primary inventors.

The point is that it’s a silly argument to say that women need men solely because man invented many things up to this point only because we can’t assure ourselves that it was necessarily only man that could have done these things.

Humans need other humans. Men, women, transsexuals, feminine individuals, masculine individuals, non binary individuals. We are all interdependent and our individual diversity and experience is important for furthering knowledge. It’s important to remember to step away from stereotypes we have in our society today about individuals. Those stereotypes actually can cause change in individuals if the pressure to conform is thick enough. Therefore, if a woman, for example, wanted to do engineering school (as someone mentioned above) she may be more likely to drop out than a male due to the lack of support and understanding of her, as well as others perceiving that individual as one who will fail. This could be a self fulfilling prophecy.

I apologize for my English, it is not my first language. I speak spanish, french and italian.

to Laura (dec 28 2010): Another lesbian feminist comment about “men are horrible, women are victims”.

My husband is a wonderful man, my two sons are wonderful boys, I love my father, my best friends are men, my best colleagues are men. These statistics are usually made by nasty angry lesbian feminists who just hate men.

Lesbians are alpha females who want to get rid of men to mate with beta females and “mock” the heterosexual relation between a straight man and a straight woman.

“The pure physics might make it almost impossible for a woman to rape a man” – WRONG: Women have 75% of the body muscle mass of men. A strong woman could easily beat a weak man.

“Another reason why most rapist are men, is simply because they have on average a lesser empathic view and many boys get raised in a macho culture, that is already downgrading women” – WRONG: Some women (all alpha females and many beta females) show a much lower level of empathy than most men. During a woman’s cycle women have almost no empathy towards beta, gamma and omega males, they can only focus on the alpha dominant figure, and that is not what empathy really is.

“Often victims are so afraid and/or embarrassed to talk, that many rapes are not reported. Or victims start talking years later”. WRONG: It is far more acceptable in our society to see a woman crying and showing her emotions, our men have to swallow their tears back in their eyes (this expression will probably work in a better way in my language). If a woman is harassed by a man she IS going to report it, if a man is harassed by a woman he is NOT going to report it because he will be ridiculed by friends, family members, the media and so on. These statements are “poubelle”, “basura”, “immondizia”, rubbish.

“If rapists get caught, they might serve some time in jail, but their victims are often scarred for life” – WRONG and more poubelle, if a man rapes a woman, he IS going to prison; if a woman makes a false rape claim, she is NOT going to be punished.

Interesting to notice: New Yorkers ARE americans; americans are NOT (necessarily) new yorkers. The majority of americans are NON new yorkers (285,000,000 americans live outside new york state).

The majority of rapist are men does not mean the majority of men are rapist.

99,99% of men have nothing to do with rape. The remaining 00,01% of them represent the majority of rapist.

I strongly advice that the lesbian feminist should learn logyc, rational thought, maths (yes it is going to help them),

I am an algebra, trigonometria, set theory teacher in a university in Europe. If people learned these thing, they would immediately dismiss all this lesbian feminist nonsense, it’s not helping women or men. We all lose.

Sabrina wrote “WRONG: Some women (all alpha females and many beta females) show a much lower level of empathy than most men. During a woman’s cycle women have almost no empathy towards beta, gamma and omega males, they can only focus on the alpha dominant figure, and that is not what empathy really is.”

Agreed. This is why primetime mainstream news features female victims for the primarily female viewing audience. There’s no fighting biology with socialization. We simply have to accept that the female sexual strategy is elitist in that women have zero sexual attraction to most men, and that this strategy can only be afforded by women if men have a more egalitarian sexual attraction with men having at least some sexual attraction to nearly all women.

Or… you can accept your bias ideas and shove them up your butt. I have problems with you hsvg8ccx. If you were right than science would have shown that as a fact. You saying it means less than nothing.

Thank God for AM:a place to expose misandry. A place too where nstudies and research exist to help us better understand the ways in which political,radical feminists assial our fathers, our children and our families to the denigration of our societies.
Copies of some of the research can also be found at http://www.westmichigandad.wordpress.com
Across the globe, savings have plumetted, whole countries have defaulted or been baled out, something is amiss in our communities, in the homes of our children.http://www.antimisandry.com
read the studies,spread the word, this destruction of families and denigration of children is the greatest tsunami of all, striking notone,or two or three, but all our shores across the entire planet earth.

What happens if I say men are responsible for all of human suffering, in other words blame them for all their wrongdoings? What happens if I disrespect them? What happens if I tell them they have no souls? What happens if I turn them into sex objects? What happens if I told them their bodies are grotesque? What happens if I have no sympathy for them, only for other people? What happens if i tell them they’re not welcome into this very world? What happens if I stereotype them? What happens if I enslave them? What happens if I treat them like trash? What happens if they were cursed by God? What happens if I told them to burn in hell for all their wrongdoings? How does it feel for a man to be marginalized by society? They are all nothing but no brain idiots, right? Does it make me a feminist? I couldn’t say much. I really wish life was better if we were all equal.

Great post – you may like some of my posts where as a female I am complaining about feminist misandrists making me feel ashamed to be a woman – ‘Is chivalry sexist’ ‘So what if a woman hits a man’ and ‘Clare’s law – women to get the right to know partners criminal record’ on my blog http://showard76.wordpress.com/

Really great article. I feel this happening not only in US, here in India as well. Recently, there was one article in the website of a major newspaper titled “Are Indian men bane for Women?”. I couldn’t believe some of the arguments the author gave. In my state (Kerala), already lot of ladies talk of us men as perverts. My interest in this subject started with that article. I searched more on Internet and came to know about a lot of what is happening in US. I can many similarity. I agree that the condition of women in India in general is not good, and some times even pathetic. But there are some who are working against men, instead of working against such issues.

“Azkamina” and “Jules” have it about right — and that should be obvious to everyone before they even read their posts.

And c’mon, people, the post by “Laura” has to be a tongue-in-cheek hand grenade. And everyone bought it!

— NEW TOPIC —

Any of you hot feminists wanna get together? You can tell me what a sexist brute I am while I bend you over the arm of the sofa! But hey, for the first time I’ll actually listen to what you have to say! (No warpigs.)

This is a disturbing thread. My husband I live happily together in a state Of love, friendship, and mutual respect. Maybe our marriage is more on the traditional side but I want it that way. Men and women are drastically different, we have different strengths and roles in life, but we both deserve to be treated well.

Sara
What a breath of fresh air you are! Men and women ARE drastically different. Political correctness that states we are all the same is imposed insanity! We should live and love and respect the differences.

that´s the key.YOU want it that way. It means he is respecting you desires and the way YOU want things to be (traditional, and it´s perfectly OK)
but what about women who dont want traditionalism? do they have to fit just one model??? NO

So maybe take some engineering or computer courses and save the liberal-arts social engineering stuff for political lesbians. Do you want to be educated, independent and gainfully employed and run your own business? YOU get the education. YOU get the start up capital. YOU work 80 hours per week at ensuring your success. You have the rights. You have the tools. You have the equality. Everything is there. But, sadly, it’s your sense of entitlement as feminists that prevent you from self realization – which you blame on men as well. “We were OPPRESSED into our lazy and self-entitled selves!”

Ok. We, all men, apologize. That’s settled. Now get out there and PROVE you’re equal and not just whining for “women’s priviledges” without any of the hard work men need to do to keep civilization running smoothly.

The first thing feminists would notice about their UTOPIAN “All butch” world is the lack of heat, power and water. Oh wait. Someone has to butcher animals and grow crops to fill the supermarket. This society of theirs will be built on emotional fluff and self-loating turned into hatred for men. And last time I checked, you can’t EAT any of those things or even burn them to heat a home.

PREACH IT, SISTER! You have it EXACTLY right. Do you realize that most “feminists” will hate you for saying that men and women are different and that we have different strengths and roles? That’s right — they will HATE you. They are very sick and maladjusted people, Sara. (And keep in mind that some men are “feminists,” too.) Most “feminists” have been taught from a very early age that they should be angry at nature for making the genders different — and they are non-thinking enough to buy it.

Yes, the genders are different, but neither is “better” or “superior.” We are interdependent. We need each other equally. We men are just as lost without women as women are lost without men. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to himself or herself. I love it when my woman is feminine and girly and my woman loves it when I’m very masculine and manly.

Ummm…. This blog and a lot of the posts on this thread are disturbing, as Sara stated. I consider myself a Liberal Feminist and I do NOT hate men! I have big time LOVE and RESPECT for the men in my life (my dad, my brother, my classmates/coworkers, my friends, imminent thinkers of history, etc). I equate feminism with respect and dignity (not necessarily absolute equality). I don’t want to be viewed as solely a sex object, I want the freedom to pursue my dreams like men do, and I don’t like hearing people put down my gender (just like men don’t). Is that asking so much? I’m not an “angry lesbian” and for anyone who automatically thinks that’s what a feminist is – you are hating/fearing something you know little about. I like what Sara said about having different strengths than her husband – and that the two of them complement each other. A lot of feminists i know, actually agree with her thinking! It’s all about balance and respect. Feminism is a very broad term, with many schools of thought. AND EVERY WOMAN DRAWS HER OWN BOUNDARIES OF WHERE SHE STANDS ON FEMINIST ISSUES. I think you guys are thinking of Radical Feminists – who have an anti-male agenda – they make a very SMALL minority of feminists! So gentlemen, Please Stop Hating! We’re sharing this tiny planet together, let’s do it with goodwill!
-Love and Respect, Your Feminist Friend

Sorry, Tracey, but we have a communication problem here, and it’s exactly because the word “feminist” has no meaningful definition that everyone agrees on. You yourself said, “Feminism is a very broad term, with many schools of thought.” Sorry, but that doesn’t work in the world of language and communication. That is going to lead — and HAS led — to many misunderstandings and disagreements where none really exists. YOU, Tracey, are not what I would call a “feminist.” You are just a normal person. I am just a normal person. I believe most men would not call you a feminist. If YOU are a feminist, and all the angry, man-hating dykes who think that all heterosexual intercourse is rape are also “feminists,” then the word has NO MEANING.

According to your post, you believe basically the same as I believe: that women should be equal before the law on an INDIVIDUAL basis. Man-hating dykes, on the other hand, think that women should be equal before the law on a COLLECTIVE basis also — that is, that women’s statistics in society should be the same as men’s statistics. And if they’re not the same, then there’s some sort of systemic discrinimation against women and for men. This notion of collective equality does not take into consideration the fact that women very often make life decisions that diverge greatly from those made by men. For instance, the decision to leave the workforce for ten or fifteen years to raise children. If 40% of the female workforce does that, then women’s statistics on income and professional ranking and success are not going to be the same as men’s — and it has NOTHING to do with “discrimination.”

I could go on with this explaination ad nauseum, but I think and hope you got the jist of it already. All those men back in the 20th Century who wanted to “keep women down” and thought that women should be kept “barefoot or pregnant” — those dinosaurs ARE ALL LONG DEAD. Do you understand that, Tracey? Do you really? Most men today — the overwhelming majority of men — go about their daily lives thinking and agreeing with you and me that women deserve a completely fair shake in society and the workplace . . . they just don’t go around talking about it so as to make sure everyone knows how fair-minded they are — men aren’t like that. My own sister is an ASS-KICKING manager at Cessna Aircraft and I’m proud as hell of her. She’s a hard-charging go-getter and she deserves complete fairness professionally. But . . . SHE DOES NOT HATE MEN . . . because she’s comfortable with her femininity. And she’s not merely a well-adjusted WOMAN, she’s also a well-adjusted PERSON. She in fact loves men and values the differences between the genders — as do I.

Go talk to some of the rabid man-hating lesbians and hard-core feminists and see how THEY feel about men. Read some of the INCOMPREHENSIBLE BILE written and said by the likes of andrea dworkin and gloria steinem.

*THEY* are “feminists.”

Read their crap and then come back here and we’ll talk about a definition of the word “feminist” that we can all agree on.

Also, Tracey, the word “liberal” is another way of saying “socialist.” Which is another way of saying that you think you have the right to steal the fruit of one person’s labor and give it to someone else who DIDN’T EARN IT. The common term for that is “slavery.” Socialism is universal slavery. It is a violation of the basic human right to keep the fruit of one’s own labor.

Men and women are very different in politics. Being liberal or socialist is a very feminine trait because women instinctively want to be taken care of and look to the gov’t for that help if they don’t have a man filling that role. In case you didn’t know, Tracey, MARRIED women are much more politically conservative than SINGLE women are because married women feel that they have someone to take care of them so the gov’t doesn’t need to. This is a statistical fact that is proven consistantly in scientific surveys.

It is the female vote that is causing America’s slide toward socialism — that is, toward universal slavery.

It’s also worth noting that because of the different ways that men and women think, most of the discussion surrounding this topic is too abstract for most women to be interested in. Women are generally and statistically not interested in abstract principles . . . they are interested in where the rubber meets the road. They aren’t interested in abstract principles of economics or governance — they are interested in a check in their hand. Have you ever read The Wealth Of Nations, by Adam Smith? The Road To Surfdom, by Hayek? The Law, by Bastiat? Economics In One Lesson??? As a woman, you are statistically not going to be interested in such books. Just like you’re not statistically going to be interested in Popular Mechanics or Dirtbike Magazine.

It’s also worth noting that the same political party that was in favor of slavery in the 1860’s is STILL in favor of slavery. And thus we have America making the slow slide — led by that party and the female vote — toward euro-style universal slavery

not true.
I believe genders are different (not better o superior) just different. and that both can learn great things from the other. And I consider myself a feminist
Maybe you shoud stop generalizing

Generalizing or not, actions speak louder than words. Words are empty, but can be just as toxic and hurtful if spoken by the right mouth. Radical feminists always hide behind moderates or rationals. It’s a very common technique, and has been done by many Islamic terrorists.

The recommended answer for a person of either gender who is faced with being boxed into a pigeonhole of historical or other stereotyping is to say ‘Hey. It wasn’t me’.
You will find that this quickly connects you with persons who are at least partially aware of the fictitious nature of all media(tion) and will also assist you in determining the fuckwits of either genitalia it’s wise to avoid.

The only sensible and incontrovertible thing I saw here was in the website’s introduction, namely,

“ONCE UPON A TIME, RESPECT USED TO BE A TWO WAY STREET”.

Well word up. It still is. If it ain’t you’re in the wrong neighbourhood.

Wow! Good work to the author for stimulating so much discussion. Men’s rights groups have floundered for generations. Men don’t even see the injustice until it happens to them. Perhaps because they’re oriented towards more directly self-benefiting causes, men don’t naturally band together in large numbers to lobby for these types of social issues. Women on the other hand organize EXTREMELY successfully around women’s issues. While men have been competing with other men for money and power so they can get women, women have steadily lobbied for laws that give them unrestrained power over men.

There are theories however that this current imbalance between the sexes will self-correct. Just like in China where killing baby girls will eventually cause scarcity of females and raise the value of females to the point where the practice stops.

“While men have been competing with other men for money and power so they can get women, women have steadily lobbied for laws that give them unrestrained power over men.”

Exactly. When one man says “Hey this is not fair!” the other men see a potential spot to be promoted to “alpha” and stomp all over him. The male ego is actually what permits political lesbian / radical feminists to multiply like the virus that they are. If men would stop for a second and look at what kind of world we live in, what rights we’ve given up, and how women in general SEE us (as tools, paychecks and ultimately expendable RESOUCES) maybe we could have some brother love and strength in numbers for a change instead of individualism and chasing the almight dollar to get the almighty p#ssy. I laugh at whipped men who defend their “alpha status” while they toil for their wife-turned-troll who does nothing but demand and complain and does not offer any love or emotional nurturing (something women claim to have in spades). So, he’s quick to stomp on male activists because it’s a threat to his alpha-status which really only serves to pad his ego. In every other regard, this stupidity has done nothing but make slaves out of men and strip them of all their rights, especially their rights as fathers.

Men have brought this on themselves. We should have banded together and cut the head off this snake back in it’s infancy.

Tracey, good comments! But the war of words is over perceived IMBALANCES. When either sex has too much power or compensation then there will be a battle. Women and men are very different creatures and I vote for keeping it that way. The perception in this blog is that there has been a war against men since feminism has taken root in our society. There is little love felt in war. We all get very angry when we are stripped of respect. Promoting ‘sameness’ in every aspect of humanity is a huge mistake, and ‘equality’ is nonsense. Do you as an individual treat every friend, family member, stranger equally? I doubt it as it would make you a very exceptional person if not a fool. There are more termperments than races, religion, sex, relations and creed. Equal rights, yes, equal opportunity, sure but not the same, not equal. To restore the respect feminism must step backwards and acknowledge that men and women ARE different and find a way to love those differences.

I LIKE THIS! I LIKE THIS! I LIKE THIS! IT’S ABOUT TIME! I learned about blackness from the Afro-Cuban male half, I learned how to be female from first an Indigenous American woman, then a White woman, then a practicing Jewish woman and I won’t even tell you the mind control games going on there and the projected mental illness. I was first Catholic after I left Judaism, now I am a practicing Muslim. Maternalistic societies destroy men, and eventually destroy themselves. They were created under situations of duress (such as slavery) and they perpetuate slavery worst than anything else. I am beyond sick of feminism, womanism (that’s even worse sometimes) and how when people attack men (especially unapologetically black men who practice Islam) everybody applauds, including men-but nobody can even SAY anything back to a woman from a Maternalistic society without becoming the most horrible person on earth BUT applause. Even sis Sheherazade Ali had comments taken out of context by Essence Magazine when her message really was take responsibility for your own. I would love to ABORT FEMINISM at this point!

By the way, you are beyond right that women really don’t have any more empathy than men. In maternalistic societies, they don’t even have empathy for a woman who questions them! In my experience as a questionably black sister, I have gotten more abuse from other women than I ever have gotten directly from brothers! (Such as look at that white B****-I have less white blood than Barack Obama (I’m 3/8 Native American.) By the way, I never was raped by any black men or men at all, and I’m sick and tired of films like The Color Purple, Waiting to Exhale, Precious, and anything Tyler Perry produces. By the way, it’s pretty derogatory in and of itself towards women that Tyler puts on a dress and wig and is exactly the way we know Medea as. When Cedric the Entertainer did the same with Cafeteria lady, it wasn’t that well received-just something to think about.

It’s great to live in a time when we can see and examine the roles which men and women have been playing through time. I definitely agree that the current projection that the media offers is not empowering to the identity of men. It’s time for men to seek to redefine themselves and embody the best aspects of what masculinity offers. Women will greatly benefit from positive and fully empowered male role models being represented in the media/life. Guys we need to truly find ourselves, not be defined by what women want, what society expects. In tribal societies (although not ideal) men and women were separated to better fit into the archetypal image of what a man was to be – protector, provider, father, shaman, hunter, warrior, survivor, husband, leader, elder etc. When they returned to meet woman they knew who they were and what they stood for, their roles were clear.
Things have changed and the survival instincts are less prevalent in western societies than they ever were before. It’s up to men now to discover the best qualities of the past and merge them with what is needed for us to get through this period.

The earth is dying and most are in a sleepy daze, lulled into a comfortable dream state. It’s time to wake up..Action and will is required if we will get through this. So many women are now awake, fully empowered, liberated, confident and independent. Feminism brought a lot of freedom to women but it’s time for men now. The women are waiting for us men to wake up now, to embody all that is beautiful in being a man. The change won’t come through this seemingly endless battle of the sexes. It will come when men and women see who they really are and come together as living embodiments of god and goddess. It comes from respect of your own sex and respect for your ‘opposite’. Each of us embodies an aspect of the opposite within ourselves, it is to be embraced and balanced.

No, “Righties” are out in the real world creating economic VALUE — which takes a helluva lot more brains and testosterone than does sitting around in a sweater and promulgating nutjob theories that have no relation to the real world.

When Bill Bennet was head of a humanities dept. of 89 professors and the roster of identifiable conservatives in that dept. went from 8 to 11, one of the wild-eyed, shrill, reactionary Lefty profs came shrieking in his beard and wire-rimmed glasses to Dr. Bennett, demanding to know whether Bennett was attempting to turn the dept. into a conservative stronghold.

Lefty professors are uniformally ignorant of economics and human nature.

I also really want to see how they plan to “automate” society when the crush patriarchy, capitalism and all things male. Big brauny alpha-males in underground slave camps maybe? The uprising of the Alphas won’t last long, but it will be a bloody one… Did they play this movie out? Or did they think “We take over. We win. Happily ever after!” I think they did…

All these satanic teachings are only good for one thing, strife to put a wedge between us, and everyone is playing into the devils hands including the ignorent and conceited self deceived Valerie son of a bitch Solanis whos parents probably should have aborted her. Destroy the female sex is what they should have done in the seventies with the scumbag feminists, our country was great till they ruined it for all of us, by misleading the U.S. and the whole world with its satanic lies. Intentionally misspelling women with no e in it what a stupid thing to do, what kind of blockhead do you have to be, to be that ashamed of being female. Whats next they are going to take the a out of female too. If they have not done that already then it shows how self deceived they are and need desperately to be reformed.

Misandry and Misogyny are both evil. I sincerely appreciate all the labor and intelligence that people have done and practice to make the comforts of life and sustaining a loving family life a reality. This is especially to the men who surely contributed the most throughout history to develop and care for their environments and family. Pre-feminist era and pre-tv was IMO a better time. There was a time where accountability and glory was given to God. If you don’t believe me, check out old tombstones. Women honored God. Men honored God. Women took care of their families. Men took care of their families. Because they knew truth, darkness, light, oneness as the marriage, it gave them the strength, a blueprint, and tenacity. To give rather than receive means to strive to be selfless. In the example of flushing toilets and running water (thank you!!!), the grace of God is why we even have water. To step back, be humble is a beautiful thing! Not one of us is perfect. From moderation to passion and respect applied to individuals by individuals in action or reaction is measurement of love. Don’t look at the feminist movement outcome and fight it by persecuting all, profiling, generalizing, blaming, hating, and promoting hate. Love. Write laws or something. Don’t look at all men as misogynists and fight it by acting superior, emasculating men, disrespecting, name calling, using psychological profiling, generalizing, hating, and hate promoting. Men and women need to turn back to God. Not religion, but God. True source of wisdom…The Word…READ it. Apply it. The real enemy is the dark evil spirit that cannot comprehend the Light.

That was then, this is now. The whole men vs women thing is crushing. We should be complimenting one another. Boasting and intelligence comparisons can be arrogant and destructive. The range exists for both men and women and race. “Studies show” but you know there’s always exceptions. Discernment and common sense figure in too. it seems like this hate thing is escalating and it saddens me. My hope is that people will choose love over hate. That they will understand and learn that we are all completely different. We have to accept that life isn’t fair. If it was we would all eat the same sandwich at the same time, have $50.00 in the bank and die on the same day at the same time. We are all individual (NOT carbon copies and therefore not having mass attributes) and have common basic needs. The greatest being love. LOVE. HONOR. RESPECT.

If you don’t believe misandry is a problem, wait until you need to have a urological procedure and some female young enough to be your granddaughter stands menacingly over you and then swoops down and seizes control of your genitals, roughly manipulating you in the most vulnerable area of your body, manhandling your genitals as she wishes throughout the procedure while the doctor ignores your pain abuse and humiliation and a standing room only crowd of females stands around gawking at your genitals. The PC crowd of extreme feminists may have tried to erase the term penis envy, but this experience will teach you that Freud was right.

Dude. YOU are in control of who is in the room when you’re receiving a medical procedure. I would NEVER submit to a genital exam when the room is full of people of EITHER gender. Man up and take control for Pete’s sake.

Blame the victim! You don’t challenge some woman who has you by the balls. You certainly don’t expect a male doctor to hand control of your genitals to a female accomplice. And you certainly don’t expect a private examination to be conducted in what amounts to a hallway as females traipse tthrough the room at will. The doctor’s explanation was “Yes there is a different standard for male and female patients. ” Since you’re so macho I wonder how you have handled such an assault when you are vulnerable and relying on treament for an enlarged prostate which may be cancerous.

Donald Perry said: “Blame the victim! You don’t challenge some woman who has you by the balls . . . .”

Don’t tell ME who I DO and DON’T challenge.

*YOU* don’t challenge some woman who has *YOU* by the balls because *YOU* are a PUSSY. I wouldn’t have let the entire situation get that far to begin with. Get some balls and SPEAK THE HELL UP.

You ALLOWED yourself to be victimized. Got it?

Look, man. If you need medical treatment, THAT doctor in THAT room at THAT moment do not comprise the ONLY opportunity in the entire world for you to get said treatment. Understand??? Therefore, THAT particular opportunity is EXPENDABLE. If I were under those conditions, I’d sit up and LOUDLY tell the doctor that either the conditions in the room change or I’ll get treatment ELSEWHERE.

With all the discussions on this blog you find it necessary to abuse an already violated elderly man. I do not plan to spend any more time replying to your sick mind after this final word to you Incidentally if you could leave your thoughts. of fear about your own masculine inadequacy, I was not addressing YOU when I made the comment about not challenging someone who has control of your genitals; maybe it’s clearer that it is not all about you if I had said “ONE does not challenge….” I can’t help wondering whether you are a man with undersized genitals who sits up and leaves the room pouting when his small dick is touched, or whether you are man-hating lesbian troll who enjoys enjoys tormenting men.

Attack on the man’s genitalia hey? You sound like a feminist. I knew a gal once who was certain that men who play the “small genitlia” card in debates with other men are usually…. poorly endowed. It’s how the argument comes to mind in the first place.

Cheap attempts at projection won’t work, donald. Neither will a false dilemma of two undesirable possibilities. Suffice it to say that after reading one of your previous posts I figured out that you must be in your mid- to late 70’s or even 80’s . . . and yes . . . because of your age, I should have been more gentle with you.

Please, Donald, don’t be tormented. No one at the other end of the internet deserves to have that much influence over you, whether it’s me or someone else.

My aggressive demeanor aside, the content of what I said is true. You DO have more say in what goes on in the examination room than you apparently realize. It is not incumbent upon ANYONE — male, female or neuter — to be the nude entertainment in a massive circus going on in the exam room. YOU decide what you will tolerate. You don’t have to be loud or abrasive toward the doctor/nurses, just firm and resolved. You just need to communicate your boundaries — what you will and won’t accept — to your doctor. And do it before you lie down.

I have returned in spite of my promise not to I also owe you an apology Brother for allowing my frustration and anger to cause me to vent my feelings of helplessness against you. Please forgive me for my stupid and unmerited outburst against you.

I do want you to understand that you are not in a position to judge men who are facing issues you have yet to face, which you will if you live long enough. I was 14 years old when at our family Thanksgiving dinner I saw my grandfather cry for the onjly time in my life. He said “once a man, and twice a child.” He felt he had lost his manhood and men do define ourselves by our manhood.

When you are in andropause and you are facing the devastation of the lost of your “manhood” because of prostate problems, including erectile dysfunction, urinary incontinence, shrinking testicles, ad nauseum, you do not want your atrophying genitals placed on display. While you are almost in a panic over your elevated PSA rating which may be indicative of the onset of prostate cancer, you do not feel empowered to defend yourself against these natural assaults on your manhood let alone also dealing with the added assault of an improper medical exmination and the assault of females seeking to excise empowerment of women.

I did not expeect to be wheeled on a gurney into an examination area to have a standing-room only group of females gawking at me as the doctor exposed my genitals. I had no idea how many females were needed to give one man the most private and intrusive examination he had ever endured. I had earlier had a colonoscopy in this office which was completely different, but I guess looking up a man’s rectum does not have the same entertainment value as gawking at a helpless, humiliated man lying on a table with his genitals exposed. When you have a serious medical condition you have to trust your doctor and expect him or her to protect you from abuse, humiliation and violation of your digniity and right to privacy. I have had women phsicians who have given me more respect. In fact my primary physician for 17 years always gave me a private examination with only her and me in the room particularly when she had to examine my genitals. Even my ophthalmogist and podiatrist, both of whom are women by my having been introduced by name to every one in the room with them being masked aive me the respect of a private closed door examination without any nurses or certainly not receptionist traipsing throught the room.

I could give you other details, but I think you get the idea. Just to say that I had two podiarty surgeries during this period which were conducted with complete respect. Only recently when I have lived in a condo with other aging men have I experienced any empathy and support. Men have to face not only the assault of female harpies who abuse us, but other men who tell us to “man up” and not be wusses. No wonder young men and boys who are sexually abused by females keep silent and suffer in silence. I hope this information has been useful to you and may you find empathetic men when you face these situations.

Don’t fret, Donald. Your defensiveness was not entirely unwarranted. At first I imagined a man my age (50) or younger being complaining wuss, but that was not the case at all.

And yes, the elderly — of both genders — do deserve empathy and respect. Especially in this country — the USA — where the last 15 generations have labored beyond description to turn an untamed wilderness into the world’s greatest repository of industrial and technological achievement and the home of the most advanced society on Earth. It’s true that many in my generation and younger don’t deserve the blessings of freedom and prosperity that your generation is bequeathing to us. Especially the freedom.

I hope that your health will recover and your remaining years will be tranquill and worry-free.

Your story makes me think that an elderly person needs a younger, more assertive representative to accompany him to functions such as doctor appointments. The mistreatment you received was completely out of line.

Thank you so much. I wish you were here to help me become more assertive. Don’t forget, my generation could barely bring ourselves to ask a question of a doctor. You aren’t so young that I respect your wisdom. I think I’ll take my lady friend with me when I can bring myself to go to another urologist so they can realize I am a sentient human being with people who love and respect me.. Although you are young enough to be my son, you and I have a lpt in commn. Again thank you and forgive me for disrespectingr you. I was puerile and foolish.

I see the Brits are taking on a clear violation of men in that on the World Press site for Anti-misandry they have started a petition against male genital mutilation, aka circumcision. There are some sites under circumcicision where even misandristic American females weigh in against this barbaric practice. This is relevant to me because for the second time in my family one of my baby male relatives has had to undergo reconstructive surgery to correct the damage of circumcision.. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! Jews and Muslims are free to impose this cruel and unnecessary practice on their male children, but leave those of us alone who did not offer this phallic sacrifice to their god. Except for the LGBT community, most Christians believe their god doesn’t make mistakes and for those of us who are not Jews or Muslims, don’t force your barbarism on us. Stop forcing your religious tenets on us. Even Paul of Tarsus, your revered founder of Christian theology did not require Christian converts to undergo this tribal mutilation.

Incidentally, when I was young, children were routinely forced to undergo tonsilectomies for no medical reason. I studied linguistics (actually more accurately Germanic philology) under an Icelandic professor who had had his uvala removed during an unnecessary tonsilectomy, and thereafter could not properly pronounce some sounds, such as the French “r.” I went to an emergency room with severe abdominal pains and was prepared for an appendectomy. Luckily the cultures taken came back in time for the doctors to realize I had a severe abdominal virus infection, not appendicitis; so my “unnecessary” appendix was not removed. I can’t imagine having my prepuce removed because someone in the desert promised a piece of their dick to their god.

When my father was drafted (Europe) in WWII they had to circumcise him. The healing is more difficult for a man than a baby. Baby boys heal quickly and have little pain according to OB / Pediatrician.
According to my father in WWI the trench conditions were horrific and men who developed severe infections had to have their penis amputated.
This is one reason why doctors reccommend circumcisions, but leave it up to parents to sign for the procedure.
God’s laws for circumcision for Israel makes perfect sense when one understands the context.
In Romans, (internal circumcision of the heart; the work of the Holy Spirit) the context: justification is by God’s grace alone, through faith alone.Circumcision is not a basis for justification. Abraham was justified 100 years before the Mosaic Law. God wants the outward demonstration to be the sign of an inward reality. For Jews circumcision is useless unless they have an obedient heart completely submitting to God.

Er . . . thanks, Loveiskind . . . for the spirituality lesson. Of course, your description is accurate. What many people don’t realize is that the original purpose of circumcision was to improve the reproductive health of both men and women. It’s a no-brainer that after the Israelites started circumcising their boys, not only did the men have fewer infection problems themselves, but they introduced far fewer infections to their women, also. That would make a HUGE difference in both the adult mortality rate and the reproductive rate, which would give the Jews a greater suvival rate and longer life expectancy.

In societies that have modern hygiene — which would exclude most African and musloid societies — circumcision is no longer really necessary for health reasons.

On one of the websites, they give some statistics on how circumcision reduces HIV infection, HS2, urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and STD. This is by the WHO. Well, I guess there are pros and cons. for men. The circumcised is in the lower percentile globally. Maybe upper in the US not sure.

“What many people don’t realize is that the original purpose of circumcision was to improve the reproductive health of both men and women.”

Incorrect. Religious bodily sacrifice was one of the original reasons. In the US, circumcision grew from the anti-masturbation movement. With the introduction of machined tools, circumcision in the 20th century transformed from a shortening of the foreskin to complete removal of the foreskin.

“…with regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is… the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible…
The bodily pain caused to that member is the real purpose of circumcision…
…violent concupiscence and lust that goes beyond what is needed are diminished. The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened.” ~Rabbi Moses Maimonides

“A remedy [for masturbation] which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision…The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind… In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.” ~Dr. John Harvey Kellogg

Boydnarw wrote “It’s a no-brainer that after the Israelites started circumcising their boys, not only did the men have fewer infection problems themselves, but they introduced far fewer infections to their women, also. That would make a HUGE difference in both the adult mortality rate and the reproductive rate, which would give the Jews a greater suvival rate and longer life expectancy.”

You’re making that up, and you completely ignore lethal complications from circumcision as well as the reality that Jews did not and still do not have a lower mortality rate and higher reproductive rate. Only secular (atheist, cultural but non-religious) Jews argue that circumcision is a health practice because they don’t believe in God, and thus a Covenant with him is meaningless.

Why do you ignore the quote from Rabbi Moses Maimonides, one of the most famous Jewish religious leaders of all time ? Here it is again.

““…with regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is… the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible…
The bodily pain caused to that member is the real purpose of circumcision…
…violent concupiscence and lust that goes beyond what is needed are diminished. The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened.” ~Rabbi Moses Maimonides (1135 – 1204 A.D. )

These comments ring true especially in Australian society. However in other culures and countries women clearly need rights and protection in many instances.
Generally feminists in Australian society are about as useful/helpful as a wheel in our progressive society.
Sadly men /dads are portayed almost always (eg tv ads) as daft twots making mistakes.
– Rob (single dad , electrician, cook, chief bottlewasher, fulltime parent to 2 daughter from go to wo)
Turn offs: misadronists

Women are no better than men. That goes on all levels. Any projections of characteristics that define either gender are unfair. It is borderline child abuse to mentally enslave boys or girls by means of their sex; we should raise each child to engage with the things they love. If a boy wants to play with dolls, cry, or dance, let him. Dont laugh at him. If a girl wants to play with toy trucks and listen to rock music, let her. Dont ridicule her.
Both males and females are responsible for plastering these false projections over society. The perception of the ‘real man’ being strong, resilient, unemotional and pragmatic is fine for those men who are naturally like that, but it is extremely psychologically detrimental to society to try to force men who are naturally sensitive to repress their nature. Women who ridicule men for being ‘weak’ because they are too sensitive do more damage than they could possibly realise.
The fact is this is all nonsense, but unfortunately it is nonsense that needs addressing. We are going through a transitional stage in many respects for social equality; many parts of the world are still very sexist, racist or homophobic, and in other areas there are reactionary societies that seek to get ‘revenge’ on the group that oppressed their group in the past. But – and THIS is what so many women really need to realise – a history of oppression does not justify a future of oppression. Hatred does not justify hatred. Discrimination on the basis of gender, race or sexuality is sickening for whatever reason. If patriarchy in the past justifies women treating men like shit, then logically white people should be slaves to black people and jews should persecute germans. We cannot go on like this; by propounding the idea that hatred can be justified, these particular feminists show just how good for the world THEY are.

Boydnar, you’re right. Although circumcision was an element of the US anti-masturbation movement of the late 1800’s to 1950’s, removing healthy erogenous genital tissue did not stop masturbation despite the reduction in penile sensitivity, especially over the long-term. Yet, it is important to understand how infant genital cutting became a fad in the US but not other 1st world nations.

And I agree that a baby doesn’t remember live genital surgery, much as young children have memories of much at all, including beatings, abuse and the loss of parents. Still, the absence of a memory shouldn’t make genital surgery or any other abuse to a baby any more ethical. I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean to write that the absence of a memory of trauma is the same as never experiencing trauma.

I don’t understand that penis fetish of the pro-infant genital cutting crowd. Please explain it to me why you like a bare penis head so much. I just say leave the boy’s genitals alone and spare him the indignity.

Involuntary circumcision without medical justification is a fundamental violation of male rights. Within the first days of life, boys experience less legal protection than girls. This is why protection from circumcision is an important point in the Men’s Rights platform.

I just love reading how pissed off all you men are. It puts a smile on my face—a bounce in my step! Dwell on it—all of it! Poor baboons. Masturbate to this: 99% of men are unsatisfactory in the bed. If you think otherwise, you’ve been lied to. More fun. A never ending joke. Men.

Men are waking up and realizing their worth is not about subsidizing women and satisfying women sexually. The average sexual experience for a man is 20-30 minutes of attempting to satisfy a woman followed by 10-15 minutes of physical exertion satisfying themselves with a wet hole. 99% of women offer an experience that is little more than a wet mattress – much less than that of screwing a goat. All women, including the 1% of women that are a satisfying sexual experience for men, manage to get men to pay for the experience, usually by manipulating him into funding a relationship.

The answer for men will be to refuse to marry until a woman is already carrying his child, followed by a DNA paternity test. Before then, HD and 4k porn will provide a better and cheaper sexual experience than the average chubby cow. Be sure to vote for immigration bills which favor foreign women from marriage cultures.

La La La…..Men reaping what they’ve sown…..does it get any better than this? The best part is, they just can’t help it! Doing the same dumb antics, expecting a different result. I love reading the same poo throwing frustrations. No way will they ever be able to participate positively in society! 100 years from now, men will be on show at the zoo clutching their penis’s, hitting each other….!

I’m trying to figure out who all these men are who are “pissed off.” I’m not “pissed off.” Ian, are you “pissed off?”

What never ceases to amaze me is how you few man-hating dykes lie to and deceive yourselves on an ongoing basis by asserting your fantastical imaginings about how men will somehow, at some indeterminate point in the extremely remote future, become irrelevant to human society and human survival.

Nothing could be further from the truth. If men suddenly disappeared from the Earth, within 60 days the power would be off, municipal water would stop flowing, all autos would come to a halt, all agriculture would cease and women would be fighting over the existing food stores. After six months you’d be back to foraging for grass and seeds and dying of disease. Within five years 80% of women would be dead.

And the fact is that 80% – 90% of women are wonderful people who are well-adjusted and love men and want desperately for men to BE MEN. It’s just a small minority of maladjusted hateful women like you who go around spewing gender hate as above. It’s my contention that about 95% of the anti-male rhetoric and hate in American society comes from the 5% of women who are super-maladjusted and the national media — which is inordinately liberal, Leftist, socialist, anti-male, anti-God, anti-traditional values and inordinately influential.

From bars to churches, women are looking for men who are “real men.” That is, the very examples of masculinity that you hate. It’s no less than astonishing that you and virtually all man-haters proceed through life without ever realizing just how extremely far out of the mainstream you are, and how little you have in common with the 90% of women who are emotionally and relationally healthy and want to have great relationships with men.

What’s more is that your petty, snipey attempts at insulting men are nothing more than juvenile and impertinent. Do you really think that any of the adults here give any credance to your maladjustment, hatred and childishness?

I’m trying to figure out who all these men are who are “pissed off.” I’m not “pissed off.” Ian, are you “pissed off?”

What never ceases to amaze me is how you few man-hating dykes lie to and deceive yourselves on an ongoing basis by asserting your fantastical imaginings about how men will somehow, at some indeterminate point in the extremely remote future, become irrelevant to human society and human survival.

Nothing could be further from the truth. If men suddenly disappeared from the Earth, within 60 days the power would be off, municipal water would stop flowing, all autos would come to a halt, all agriculture would cease and women would be fighting over the existing food stores. After six months you’d be back to foraging for grass and seeds and dying of disease. Within five years 80% of women would be dead.

And the fact is that 80% – 90% of women are wonderful people who are well-adjusted and love men and want desperately for men to BE MEN. It’s just a small minority of maladjusted hateful women like you who go around spewing gender hate as above. It’s my contention that about 95% of the anti-male rhetoric and hate in American society comes from the 5% of women who are super-maladjusted and the national media — which is inordinately liberal, Leftist, socialist, anti-male, anti-God, anti-traditional values and inordinately influential.

From bars to churches, women are looking for men who are “real men.” That is, the very examples of masculinity that you hate. It’s no less than astonishing that you and virtually all man-haters proceed through life without ever realizing just how extremely far out of the mainstream you are, and how little you have in common with the 90% of women who are emotionally and relationally healthy and want to have great relationships with men.

What’s more is that your petty, snipey attempts at insulting men are nothing more than juvenile and impertinent. Do you really think that any of the adults here give any credance to your maladjustment, hatred and childishness?

Boyndar, I’m not pissed. It’s a joy to have a real Feminists (Female supremacist)on this board, but it’s too bad she’s not up to the task of debating. Her posts are little more than ghetto drivel. Well, at least she’s able to read.

Real feminists do not hate men. I know it’s sometimes hard to make the distinction between misandrists and feminists, because the misandrists keep telling people that man-hating is part of feminism, but it’s not. Real feminism does not say that men should be subjected to women, or that men and women are equal in every way (physical strength is a good example) but that women and men should be valued equally. Big difference.

‘From bars to churches, women are looking for men who are “real men.” That is, the very examples of masculinity that you hate.’

–Bars and Churches – hmm, meet an eventual drunken brute or a patriarchy-wearing, holy-book-waving, suppressive jailer. Bars and churches are the two places any modern, thinking Woman does NOT want to meet Her s.o., lol.

‘It’s no less than astonishing that you and virtually all man-haters proceed through life without ever realizing just how extremely far out of the mainstream you are, and how little you have in common with the 90% of women who are emotionally and relationally healthy and want to have great relationships with men.’

—Heh, the cold, wet ground is FULL of good and innocent (and naive) Women from that 90% who have sought out those ‘real men’ and blessed them with a relationship and loving companionship – only to eventually find their ‘knight’ to be one of two things: an untrustable control-freak or a dangerous untrustable control freak. There ARE real men – we who would never shy from elevating and enabling and protecting and enriching the Women and Girls in our lives. BUT – generally speaking – we guys are as dangerous to the Female as the Female black-widow is to her male. Sad, but true – so, cut the Lady some slack.

Real feminists embrace the dogma that in order for women to be social equals, massive discrimination against men is needed. Placing a female astronaut in a space shuttle crew requires passing over 1000 men with equal or greater qualifications. Holding a corporate position open until a qualified woman is found entails passing over hundreds of male applicants.

When women surge ahead in higher education, thanks in part to sex specific financial incentives, this inequality is ignored.

Beg to differ, Louette 1969. You should have learned more Greek, The Greeks used two words for the English word man. Andros means a male person. The word for mankind is anthropos which is male or female; therefore, the word for hatred of both men and women is misanthropy, Misandry is solely the hatred of males.

English like German had the same distinction of man and mensch (Modern German Mann and Mensch), but in transitioning from Old English to Middle English our linguistic ancestors decided they didn’t need both words. This was about the same time the words he, she it and they coalesced into the one word he (with a long e) in the dominant Wessex dialect which became the basis of Modern English. Again the decision was made to resurrect different forms to differentiate gender and number of the third person pronoun so they turned to the Scandinavian Languages (predominantly Norwegian} and even resurrected archaic Anglo-Saxon words.

Ironically languages such as Chinese and Turkish, spoken by cultures not noted for gender equality, make do with one word for he, she and it. although Chinese retains the distinction in the written form but not in the spoken form. Chinese use ta and Turkish uses o for three forms of the third person pronoun although the do pluralize the words to tamen and onlar.

It also unfortunate that English speakers decided to settle for one word for love, where as the Greeks have agape, phliia and eros, so there is no confusion about what kind of love the ancient Greeks were talking about.

I’m certain this is more responce then you expected, but all these linguistic changes have an influence on the relations between men and women. Maybe if more women were aware of the philological evolution of the English Language they wouldn’t spend so much time bastardizing the language in trying to eliminate any reference to gender.

Patriarchy is a species-killer. We males and our testicle-driven patriarchy of this wounded planet has doomed us all. We men and our unmanaged and uncontrolled testosterone are responsible for uncountable deaths through the wars we wage and the Women and Girls we beat, rape and slaughtered since prehistory. The BEST thing that could EVER happen to this planet would be for a devastating, XY-specific plague to sweep the globe and kill enough of us manimals off so that Womankind could ascend as the new Protectors of Gaia and begin selective-breeding us boys to specific purposes – NONE of which would EVER involve any social, civic, domestic, governmental or religious power – in short, a totalitarian Gynarchy wherein we boys are kept firmly and safely at heel… where we can’t cause any more wars or extinctions.

This whole discussion makes me sad. Both sides here are grossly misrepresenting feminism. Not all feminists are misandrists. Not all men are misogynists. There just aren’t enough of us working together to make the changes needed to have a truly equal, beneficial society built on cooperation.

BTW, to the author of the article: Valarie Solanas was suffered from severe mental illness. Her misandry came from years of sexual/physical abuse at the hands of her father and grandfather. Not really a good example to show how feminism is misandric.

There are solutions, but I doubt anyone on this thread cares to hear them.

Jodi-don’t be put out by the perennial polarity of 2D political thinking (left/right, male/female, good/bad). This kind of thinking is being exhausted at the present time and although most brains have yet to receive 3D thinking (because they’re consuming 2D media), now is the time to inject it.

Jodi wrote “Her misandry came from years of sexual/physical abuse at the hands of her father and grandfather.”

Or so Solanas says, since every mention of this if based only on her testimony. “Why did you shoot Andy Warhol and the other guy?” “Uh, my father molested me, and my grandfather gave me the belt for skipping school. Uh, they gave me paranoid schizophrenia.”

Seriously, why was a paranoid schizophrenic that shot two people with a gun allowed to live outside a jail after only a three year sentence?

The SCUM Manifesto is mentioned in many college classes. Boston College employed radical feminist Mary Daly, a professor that did not allow men to attend her classes. Daly’s book _Gynecology_, a book that discusses a hatred of men and the decimation of men, is issued as a standard text book in Feminist studies, even at top universities and colleges.

Also, I’m very much aware of Mary Daly, her writings, and her teaching. I am a feminist, after all. I don’t agree with the tactics of many feminists, but I do understand why they do some of the things they do. Mind you, i am NOT agreeing with what they do, I just understand that much of the virulent anti-male rhetoric comes from women who have been abused and know no other way of dealing with feelings of betrayal, fear, and (in many cases, justified) anger, or from women who have been actively discriminated against in their professions, especially when their pleas for help were so often ignored.

Because of the virulent backlash against feminism, there really hasn’t been a clear dialog between men and women and between feminists and non-feminists to bridge that gap. You need to remember that when women DID come out with rape allegations or allegations of sexual harassment before the 1990s, they were often ignored at best, and persecuted, beaten, and sometimes killed at worst. Yes, a lot of the early feminist writings are very anti-male; some still are. Keep in mind, a lot of that anti-male rhetoric is fueled by the reaction to women asking for equal rights (i.e. threatening to rape them, calling them dykes, accusing them of trying to castrate men, etc). BOTH sides need to come to the table without the violent rhetoric and BOTH sides need to work toward redefining proper behavior, ensuring equality (political, economic, and personal), and fairness (i.e. divorce, child support, etc).

I am a feminist. I teach feminism in my classes (the feminist movement as it pertains to the social uprisings of the 1960s). But I don’t just feed my students Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan, I also give them Phyllis Schlafly and other anti-feminists to read. My students learn to think for themselves, whatever way they choose. I also teach them about the women who were beaten, raped, and jailed for daring to demand their right to vote. So, while the tactics may not be justified, you need to understand that the sentiment sometimes is.

I have more than enough reason in my life to be a man-hater, but I am not because I decided to fight it. I educated myself (and others in the process) and learned different ways of dealing with a world that I saw as inherently anti-woman. Education, compassion, patience, and a true desire for peaceful co-existence. THAT is what we need.

Jodi, I sincerely respect you for the woman you are. I know just how you feel. It makes me sad too when I’m exposed to nonstop misandry. I also can’t sit still when misogyny is taking place right in front of me. Whenever I’m feeling downtrodden because of this, I calm myself down by remembering that there are so many wonderful people out there, you really can’t blame a whole gender for something only a very few of them are doing. Also by reading comments like yours, and knowing people out there still exist like you makes me feel 100% better. Just today I tried giving a rational comment on a feminist site trying to encourage peaceful discussion (the host of the site was getting into it with one of the visitors) and she responded by labelling ME as a misogynist! I couldn’t believe it. I was trying to help her, and she started ranting against me! I tried to calm her down by apologizing (even though I clearly wasn’t in the wrong) but she hasn’t replied back yet. I hope she’s rethinking what she said. Anyway, when she insulted me, I came here to read some encouraging ( and albeit discouraging) comments. But people like you really make my day. Thank you Jodi for refusing to give up.

Jodi, you are saying exactly what I believe. I agree with everything you’ve said — except your last sentence. If you will read my posts above, you’ll read that I think the vast majority of women are wonderful people, like you sound to be. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to get aggressive when attacked by psychotic man-haters or self-flaggelating pussies like nEthing4her (what a codependent, supplicating wuss). Just as I similarly don’t and won’t give quarter to woman-haters.

And yes, there’s far too much range in the meaning of the word “feminist” for there to be clear discussion of it without very explicitly defining our terms. I think I said as much in a post above.

Unfortunately, I think radical feminists have been so vocal and so aggressive that true feminists have to work just that much harder to get us all to the point of cooperation. They don’t seem to understand that men are not only welcome but necessary for the success of feminism. Their rabid hatred of men has made relations between the sexes that much more strained. We could get somewhere if all the crazies would just shut up. But I guess that is true in any cause or movement. The moderates are never heard over the bickering and yelling of the radicals. And yet, we continue on…

Yes, the self-flagellation of nEthing4her is rather disturbing, too. Yikes! I hope there aren’t a lot of men out there like that. Being a feminist man doesn’t mean you have to throw yourself on the ground and grovel. Geez… self-respect is important for men and women. Yes, men have started wars and oppression. Men have also led Civil Rights movements, stopped wars and avoided them altogether through peaceful resistance, defiance, and spreading messages of equality. More standing up for what’s right and less dropping and grovelling, please! It is just as sexist to say (even if a man is saying it) that men are incapable of peace, compassion, logic and reason as it is to say that women are weak, petty, stupid, useless outside of their biological ability to give birth, or incapable of understanding complexities of economics and politics. For the record, I’m one of those lefty professors who has read Wealth of Nations and a whole host of other documents like it and I do understand economics and human nature, as do many of my female colleagues. We “lefties” are often misunderstood as well, because…you guessed it, the crazies steal the show and get all the attention.

The real problem is that the man-haters and man-blamers are in control of far more of the media and entertainment industries than are people like you and me and Ian (and most of the guys on here). When was the last time katy couric or diane sawyer talked like you talk ? ? ? It’s posh and vogue to bash men as a group in the media — movies and TV and the “news” — but it’s verbotten to do the same to women — not that I would want to! Far from it. Just don’t to it to men.

My take on nEthing4her is that it’s actually a woman masquerading as a man or it’s a very disturbed “man” who has a mangina.

And as far as economics goes, I’ll leave you with one of my email taglines:

It is impossible to understand economics, understa — I guess I posted that above, didn’t I? OK, let me say this. There are people who have Ph.D.’s in economics WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND ECONOMICS, just as there are people who have Ph.D’s in history WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND HISTORY (or its implications about human nature).

When you truly understand economics, you will cease to be a Lefty.

But you seem to be really sweet. I’ll bet you’re cute, too. I’m thinkin’ you’re a Size-2 blonde. Can I get a pic?

Just so you know, I’m 6′-2″, stunningly handsome (think “PeeWee Herman meets Shemp”), and I’m so smart that my genius is exceeded ONLY by my humility.

IanB, no real feminists do NOT embrace that dogma. Real feminists embrace the idea that women are perfectly capable of making their own decisions about their health, their education, their careers, families, and politics. And putting a female astronaut into space when there are 1000s of men who are equally qualified: should those men be put into space just because they are men? If she and they are equally qualified, why shouldn’t she be allowed to go?

There is no such thing as sex specific financial incentives. I “surged ahead” in higher education because I busted my ass, raising a child on my own, working 2 jobs and losing a lot of sleep so I could finish my work. I excelled at my work, put in the extra time and dedication needed to earn my Master’s. I worked my ASS off. Read that again. And with that, there is no legitimate reason that I should be paid less than my male colleagues or not get offered a full time position that I am qualified for just because I’m a woman.

Jodi wrote “And putting a female astronaut into space when there are 1000s of men who are equally qualified: should those men be put into space just because they are men?”

You know that 1000 people will not equally qualified. The discrimination against men in the space shuttle crew program became so massive that the only way to put a woman into space was a civilian program that chose a female, but not a male, high school teacher. Why should a woman be put into space only because of her sex ?

“There is no such thing as sex specific financial incentives.”

Do a search on scholarships for girls. Then, do a search on scholarships for boys. There are athletic scholarships for boys, but they are based on athletic ability and play to earn the college money.

Ian, so when a college gives girls a scholarship for academics, it’s sexist. But when colleges give tens of thousands of scholarships to boys for football, which has NOTHING to do with academics, that’s not sexist? Come on…

How on Earth can you say that the space shuttle program discriminated against men when most of the astronauts have been men? Female astronauts work just as hard as male astronauts to get where they are. You are coming from a perspective that the male is the standard and if women come into the picture, suddenly the standard is upset. You assume that women are bumping men who are more qualified (because they are men?) if they are in the program at all. How many men went into space before 1986?

What you seem to be saying is… if we exclude women from professions, college, anything..that’s just the normal standard. It’s okay to do that because they are naturally not as qualified as men. If men are excluded, even if the women who are taking their positions are equally qualified, somehow that is discrimination. That’s exactly what feminists have fought against.

Title IX is coming our way to destroy science education. There is no push (reduce incentives for women while increasing incentives for men) to equalize the sex imbalance in college, particularly in the humanities. Women have full social and financial support to participate in any field of study and flock to psychology/sociology/Education/humanities while shunning STEM.

YOU need to go back and read the very first words of that article. You seem to think “gender equality” means that men get to start halfway to the finish line and women have to work twice as hard to keep up. Giving women financial aid to help them break into these fields when they’ve ACTIVELY been kept out of them is not discrimination. It’s leveling the playing field.

Furthermore, you should be appreciative that women now have more opportunities to break into high paying fields. You should be applauding those efforts to allow women the same chance as men. When women have economic power just like men, it benefits everyone. You can’t tie someone’s shoes together and then complain that someone helped them untie their shoes so that the race is fair. Sorry, doesn’t work that way.

And yes, I take back my statement about there not being sex specific financial incentives. They’ve existed forever, except until recently, they’ve only been available to men.

Nonsense. You fundamentally believe that women need more help in STEM because there are fewer women in those programs but have no answer about men needing similar encouragement to attend college.

Universities and corporations have actively encouraged women in STEM and jobs requiring those degrees for many decades. Huge amounts of money (and grade inflation!) have been allocated to help a few women complete while a fraction of that money could help more financially-limited men move from a 2 year tech school to a 4 year Bachelor’s STEM program. America needs more scientists and engineers, not just more female scientists and engineers. Feminists believe the latter.

At high tech corporations that has employed me, the recruitment policy passes over 100s of male interns that are more qualified to achieve a 1 female : 4 male ratio. Without that discrimination, there wouldn’t be any women in the intern program. Then, we always offer the woman a job. Not a single woman has lasted more than two years, primarily because women do not want to work 50-60 hr weeks, often including nights and weekends.
Competing at work with men is difficult, even for men.

For regular interviews, the staff doesn’t interview the female candidate. She just shows up for work one day. These programs yield a full-time female worker that rarely lasts 1-2 years.

Yes, you are a real Feminist, the type that earns the term Female Supremacist by supporting and promoting massive actual discrimination against men to help fewer women from perceived discrimination.

Feminists believe that “America needs more scientists and engineers” means that women should be included in that too. And since colleges have historically excluded women, and schools have historically trained girls for domestic duties rather than real academic work, women are behind. If men and women had started at the same level, then I would agree with you wholeheartedly that there should be no gender preferences. But they did not. And now, men do have to deal with the fact that women are getting extra help. Does all of that mean that men and women are now equal? Heck no. Women still don’t make as much as men and a grossly under-represented in the workplace, politics, and even in society. Because any time a woman gets assistance to help make up for the deficit, it is somehow discrimination. Not a peep from you guys when all of the scholarships were going to men though…

You weren’t screaming discrimination when women were excluded from all of this. For centuries men were catered to.

And your supposition that women are grossly under-qualified for ANYTHING when put up against a man are just plain silly and not even worth arguing with.

So does the fact that you won’t even acknowledge that women are also qualified to be astronauts, college students, scientists, engineers, or any other job when put against men, and that the ONLY reason they were excluded from this for so long is because they are inherently inferior to men, make you a Male Supremacist? Anyone who disagrees with your narrow definition of what makes someone qualified to hold a position (apparently having a penis is the only qualification to you) suddenly a Female Supremacist?

Jodi wrote “You weren’t screaming discrimination when women were excluded from all of this. For centuries men were catered to.”

More nonsense. Women had zero interest and less productive capacity in working outside the home with men until the advent of the factory assembly line, and more recently, the air conditioner.

Women in the office workspace isn’t a random event in history. It is completely coincidental with the invention of the transistor.

“So does the fact that you won’t even acknowledge that women are also qualified to be astronauts, college students, scientists, engineers”

There is no discrimination against women in these fields. On the contrary, there is active social and, as I’ve pointed out with the lists of STEM scholarships specifically for women, active financial encouragement.

The reasons that men do better in STEM is that there are many more men at the top of the performance curve. This has to do with the difference in male and female brain anatomy due to different hormonal development environments. I don’t see why a mass discrimination plan against capable men is needed at the university level so that less capable women are encouraged to enter fields of study which otherwise would not appeal to them.

I don’t think that women are grossly underqualified for everything. That is your fantastic interpretation. I have only pointed out a handful of areas under attack by Feminists.

Jodi wrote “Women still don’t make as much as men”

The US Dept of Labor (CONSAD, 2009) already documented that most of the sex wage gap is due to a shorter female working week. Women in full-time jobs (defined as 35+ hrs/week) work fewer regular hours and even less overtime hours. Why aren’t women willing to work more hours?

Jodi wrote “And since colleges have historically excluded women, and schools have historically trained girls for domestic duties rather than real academic work, women are behind.”

College in the past excluded 99% of the population, both men and women. Colleges of the 1970s began including 15% of the population, and today, that figure is above 25% for a Bachelor’s degree (which on average, takes 5 years to complete).

I fail to see how a selection for a few men 150+ years ago should be used as an excuse for a large scale discrimination program in 2012 against men by promoting women. Both men and women were excluded from college because colleges served the elite.

Women also had colleges that discriminated against men. Vassar College , one of the seven sister schools, was founded for an exclusively female student body in 1861. In 1962, Vassar college began admitting men.

Jodi wrote “so when a college gives girls a scholarship for academics, it’s sexist. But when colleges give tens of thousands of scholarships to boys for football, which has NOTHING to do with academics, that’s not sexist?”

College sports exist to earn money for colleges. The sexist element is to give female athletes scholarships when these ladies are not expected to generate a proportional amount of event ticket sales and alumni donations.

“How on Earth can you say that the space shuttle program discriminated against men when most of the astronauts have been men?”

To put one female in a crew, hundreds of men are passed over. Just compare the medical specialists Laurel Clark and David Brown from the Space Shuttle Columbia crew.

” if we exclude women from professions, college, anything..that’s just the normal standard.”

Women are not selected because there are many more capable men in these fields. Any capable woman has every STEM program and corporation bidding for her. But Feminists insist that real discrimination against men, but never women, is needed.

Giving women the same opportunities that men have always had is not discrimination. You need to get your facts straight. Putting ONE female on a crew, when thousands had been passed over just because they were women, is discriminatory? It’s okay to pass over thousands of women, but it’s not okay to pass over any men?

It is sexist to give women athletes scholarships when they don’t make enough money for the school? WHAT?? That is the WORST argument I have ever heard. Colleges, colleges that are worth going to anyway, are valuable for their academics. The fact that men figured out that male-exclusive things will generate extra revenue does not excuse the fact that women do not have the same opportunities as men.

Again, there you are with “women are not as qualified as men.”

“Women are not selected because there are many more capable men in these fields.” You think maybe that has something to do with the fact that women have been actively excluded from those fields? It really isn’t a hard concept to figure out.

Jodi wrote “It is sexist to give women athletes scholarships when they don’t make enough money for the school? WHAT?? That is the WORST argument I have ever heard.”

Because that is the best argument you’ve heard. When women play, how many people line up to buy a ticket ? How many alumni travel from other towns to spend money in the college town, on campus and write large checks to alumni donations when women play sports ? How many professional sports organizations donate money to the college while providing equipment for female sports teams ? Oh wait, the money for women’s teams is funded by the income generated by men’s teams.

Sports are spectacular events based on extraordinary athletic performance. Women’s sports are marginally interesting because female athletes are closer in performance to boys than to men.

Women’s ability to attend college shouldn’t be based on how many people pay to watch sports. That is a ridiculous argument. Get rid of it. There are plenty of excellent colleges that do not depend on sports. They get their funding from being excellent institutions that produce excellent scholars. Their alumni donate because they believe in the work that the university does: research, public policy, scientific breakthroughs etc. Football doesn’t equal good college. I think Penn State proved that.

Your sexism is really getting on my nerves, so I’m going to end the conversation here. Good night.

Notice how none of what I said even remotely suggested that men should be prevented from going to college or prevented from receiving academic scholarships. Notice that nothing I’ve said suggests that men should be thrown out of fields they are qualified for JUST FOR BEING MEN. Women have NOT been afforded that same courtesy.

Women have been afforded a super courtesy for entry into higher education for decades, and that continues. Before that, only the children of the rich attended college.

Profit is the primary reason colleges court female students. Professors generally without real research backgrounds are recruited as psychology ($), sociology($$), gender studies ($$$) lecturers for lower wages because there is no inter-college competition for these professors. These classes require no lab equipment but require many textbooks. They are also taught in large lecture halls.

Peruse any college entry prep book or college promotional material. Nearly all the images are of women. How would a woman feel if all of the images were of men ? Now, how does a man feel when all of the images are of women ? I’d call that social discouragement of men in higher education.

There are tons of scholarships specifically for female students, and nearly zero for male students. In the cases where there are scholarships for racial minorities, there is a parallel scholarship for both male and female. I would call that financial encouragement of women.

Jodi wrote “Women’s ability to attend college shouldn’t be based on how many people pay to watch sports. That is a ridiculous argument. ”

You don’t understand the argument. Colleges make money from sports. My sports argument is that if women are extended sports scholarships, these women should also be responsible for generating revenue as much as the men awarded scholarships.

Jodi wrote “Football doesn’t equal good college. I think Penn State proved that.”

Football helps with alumni donations. Women’s sports don’t help at all. In general, the quality of education is proportional to funding at all levels from K-12 through college.

Penn State was humiliated by a homosexual screwing boys. Just screen boy coaches for homosexuals and solve that rape of males problem.

I understand your argument completely and think it is based on false assumptions, a male-dominated view of what is important in higher education, and a general lack of knowledge of what makes a university a university.

No, the quality of education has nothing to do with how good the football team is.

Homosexuality has nothing to do with child rape. That is a totally inaccurate statement. You clearly have no interest in facts and only want to babble on and on about your ridiculous ideas about women and gays. I’m not going to argue with someone who doesn’t even understand the first thing about criminal behavior, sexuality, or women’s physiology. Someone who is willfully ignorant of any facts. Penn State was humiliated for covering up rape so it didn’t harm their football team. They sacrificed the reputation of the institution so they could continue to sell more tickets. THAT is what is wrong with male dominated society.

“Women had zero interest and less productive capacity in working outside the home with men until the advent of the factory assembly line, and more recently, the air conditioner.”

– Absolutely a ridiculous and false statement. Women have always worked. ALWAYS. On family farms, outside of the family home, as artisans, craftswomen, industrial workers.

“Women in the office workspace isn’t a random event in history. It is completely coincidental with the invention of the transistor.”

– Are you just cutting and pasting from a script?

“There is no discrimination against women in these fields. On the contrary, there is active social and, as I’ve pointed out with the lists of STEM scholarships specifically for women, active financial encouragement.”

-Kinda getting tired of repeating myself: There is active social and financial encouragement because women have been discriminated against in these fields and are only now getting help to catch up. Stop complaining about it.

“The reasons that men do better in STEM is that there are many more men at the top of the performance curve. This has to do with the difference in male and female brain anatomy due to different hormonal development environments.”

– I amend my statement. THIS is not only the most asinine thing that I’ve seen all night, but probably the worst argument I’ve ever seen online. There is no difference in brain anatomy between men and women. This is pseudoscience crap and has no place in this argument.

“I don’t see why a mass discrimination plan against capable men is needed at the university level so that less capable women are encouraged to enter fields of study which otherwise would not appeal to them.”

-Enough with the conspiracy theories. It is well documented that men have political, social, economic, and cultural superiority over women.

The US Dept of Labor (CONSAD, 2009) already documented that most of the sex wage gap is due to a shorter female working week. Women in full-time jobs (defined as 35+ hrs/week) work fewer regular hours and even less overtime hours. Why aren’t women willing to work more hours?

Jodi wrote “dozens of decades they were excluded? So 2 or 3 decades makes up for that.”

Men were also excluded from college. In the past, 1% of the population attended college.

Jodi wrote “No scholarships for males”

I wrote few scholarships that are specifically for males. Do you understand the point ? Try to search for one STEM scholarship that is for men but not women without other “diversity” requirements and does not have a parallel women’s scholarship.

Jodi wrote “THIS is not only the most asinine thing that I’ve seen all night, but probably the worst argument I’ve ever seen online. There is no difference in brain anatomy between men and women.”

The volume of the male human brain volume is 10% larger than the volume of the female brain. Some will argue that a correction is needed for body mass, but I’ll need to be convinced why longer+denser bones need to be involved in that calculation.

Numerous studies have been published regarding size differences in various brain regions. While it’s PC to ignore sex brain differences, doing so significantly affects treatments for mental conditions. For example, autism (and genius) strikes men at nearly 10x the rate of women.

I hope you’re not teaching your students that there are no anatomical differences between male and female brains without a source to confirm it. Do you have a source that states there is no difference ? I’d like to read it.

Pseudoscience bullshit, Ian. It’s crap. You can ramble on about the volume of human brains all you want to try to justify your belief that someone you are intellectually superior. It’s bullshit. Are you going to now tell me that phrenology is a reliable and acceptable science to determine intelligence??

Jodi wrote “Are you going to now tell me that phrenology is a reliable ”

Phrenology is the study of the external shape of the skull. A short while ago, you stated that there are no anatomical differences between male and female human brains. Research over the last ten years on mental illness and their sex specificity reveal these significant male-female brain differences.

Will you to continue to state that even though there are measurable volume, chemical, structural and functional differences between male and female brains, these differences should not be studied or even acknowledged. Is this suppression of information due to your social goal as a Feminist activist ?

Any argument or analysis that proceeds from the abstractions of statistics is doomed to be political and by political I mean ‘intent on proving a position, intent on advancing a position).
It is not ‘discourse’ (discussion, proposition, construction).

So to argue from a statistic of ‘only 45% of X are receiving benefit Y’ that X are being disenfranchised, is always a matter of politics.

What may be more useful, since we are engaged in discourse here (and we ARE, ‘ladies’ and ‘gentlemen’) is to talk from OUR experience.
I do not know what the motivations of an abstract percentage of an abstract category were or are. But I’m damned sure of what the motivations of some PEOPLE I have experienced were. And when you focus on people and experiences, dogma and political positions tend to fall away into discourse and, jesus wept, agreement.

In this particular arena, the map may say that Jodi belongs to a country or city or town or category called ‘women’ and that Ian belongs to a competitor called ‘man’.

Jodi wrote “You should be applauding those efforts to allow women the same chance as men. When women have economic power just like men, it benefits everyone.”

Agreed. Women should pay their fair share in taxes. Women should contribute to the Social Security fund with FICA taxes in proportion to their usage, which is 50% higher given female longetivity. Women should pay 50% more in FICA taxes.

Overall, Feminism is now facing a complementary set of demands from men. Men want the same legal rights. Within the first week of life, a boy’s penis may be cut for no therapeutic reason other than women think a penis isn’t pretty.

Just as women want more economic power, men want more say in reproduction. Feminism has pursued a monopoly in this area. Why isn’t society served with an equal say in the outcome of a pregnancy ?

Why don’t women share equally in the workplace injury and death rate ? Why does a life span gap exist between the sexes when money spent on women can be channeled to men to equalize life spans? Is Grandpa worth less than Grandma ?

I see your point for women wanting social change. Men want social changes too, not just those that turn them into fags or cuckolds in the service of women.

Ian,
First, women do not use 50% more in either FICA or health insurance premiums, since there has been no attempt to make men pay more taxes because… let’s say, men cause wars and cost our country billions of dollars a year in taxes.

Women are not responsible for circumcision. Children are circumcised not because “women think a penis isn’t pretty.” That’s an idiotic argument. Women had no say in it. MEN decided that boys penises needed to be cut. MALE DOCTORS said it was safer, cleaner, in line with religious traditions. At no point did women say “hey, let’s cut off the tip of penises so they look pretty.” I do not agree with genital mutilation of any kind.

For centuries women were denied the right to make any decisions regarding their bodies. Women are not brood-mares. Women are the ones who are the ones who are physically, financially, psychologically, and socially wrecked when their bodies are controlled by others. If you are in a relationship where your wife/girlfriend wants to have an abortion, that’s between you and her. It’s certainly none of the government’s business. Ultimately, women are the ones who get to choose because they are the ones who have to go through the pregnancy, get fired from their jobs for being pregnant, get paid less because they have to raise children and often have to leave work to deal with injuries and illnesses for their kids. If you don’t think that’s fair, you’re efforts would be better spent ensuring women are paid fairly for their work, that men assume 50% of all child rearing duties, and that men cannot simply walk out and refuse to care for the children when their wives or girlfriends no longer suit them. When all women have access to birth control, are economically and politically equal, and can be assured that they will not be left in abject poverty because the guy just decides he doesn’t want to be a dad or a husband anymore, then you can come back and we’ll talk about abortion. Oh, and when women have the right to decide if a man is castrated for not paying child support, men can then have the right to force a woman to give birth/to have an abortion against her will.

Feminism turns men into fags? Or cuckolds? Are you saying men AREN’T the superior sex because women can so easily change their sexuality or force them into subservience? Really, not a good argument on behalf of your sex, Ian.

Jodi wrote “Are you going to now tell me that phrenology is a reliable and acceptable science to determine intelligence??”

I did not write that. You insisted that there were no anatomical differences between male and female brains. I added information that there are measurable volume differences between the sexes as well as differences in the collection of neurons. There are also well-documented intersex differences in brain usage for certain tasks as measured by brain activity scans, e.g. listening to speech. Science is about repeatable measurements. The pseudo-science is to assume that there are no sex-based differences in brain function even though these differences are measurable.

Jodi wrote “let’s say, men cause wars and cost our country billions of dollars a year in taxes.”

Men are also responsible for building the civilizations and industries through invention and effort. So, when men are blamed for one social function, such as war, it’s important to credit them for their other contributions, such as technological invention. Without all of that, there would be no tax base. Feminists are quick to discredit men.

“Women are not responsible for circumcision.”

Not a single circumcision would take place if the mother refused to sign the consent papers. Women did not invent circumcision, but American women continue to choose it even though not a single pediatric organization, including the AAP, recommends the practice.

“ensuring women are paid fairly for their work”

Women are already paid fairly for their work. I think you are asking for a higher pay rate for work that women prefer and choose while simultaneously expecting that men won’t compete for the more favorable work terms.

“When all women have access to birth control, are economically and politically equal”

When a woman is willing to value male sex as much as her own, men and women will be political and economic equals. This requires a monumental shift in female psychology. Until then, women will continue to consider a man with an annual income of at least 20% more and work full-time for his working life to be her social equal.

Jodi wrote “that men cannot simply walk out and refuse to care for the children when their wives or girlfriends no longer suit them.”

Women file for 70% of divorces. It is the women that are booting the men out of the house when their husbands no longer suit them.

Some estimates place paternity fraud as high as 11%, though the fraud rate is inversely proportional to income. I certainly don’t blame a man with very low paternal certainty to “walk out” on a woman attempting to force him to provide for her and a child from another man. Mandatory DNA paternity tests in the birth certification process would help men with this issue.

First, you are distorting science to suit your argument. You are trying to say that when men and women use their brains differently, it is because women are incapable of using their brains any other way. That is absolutely, patently false. You make the mistake of taking physiological differences to prove superiority of one sex over the other.

Second, YOU arbitrarily want to charge women more for health care and life insurance because they “cost more” but when MEN cost us billions of dollars for their wars, you don’t want to talk about. It’s okay, I wouldn’t want to concede that point either, if I was wrong.

Third, only recently after court challenges have doctors been forced to fully disclose the risks of circumcision to mothers. In fact, for many years boys were automatically circumcised. Many women were pressured by their doctors to have the procedure. In fact, many of the anti-circumcision campaigns have been led by…wanna guess? FEMINISTS.

Fourth, so what you’re really saying is men’s work is just more valuable than women’s work. Really. How interesting that YOU decided that YOUR work is more valuable than mine…

Fifth – “When a woman is willing to value male sex as much as her own, men and women will be political and economic equals. This requires a monumental shift in female psychology. Until then, women will continue to consider a man with an annual income of at least 20% more and work full-time for his working life to be her social equal.” <~~ this doesn't even make any sense. What are you trying to say here? What does valuing male sex mean? THE male sex? Male sexuality? The penis? What monumental shift in female psychology? And are you trying to say that women won't accept men who don't make 20% more money then women do as their equal? Good god, I can't make heads or tails of that last part all. Explain please.

In your world, do men even HAVE a role in ensuring equality and fairness, or only women responsible? Because you've been yaking on and on about how women need to change, but not once have you mentioned anything that men could do to make things right. Not once have you addressed any of the serious issues women face.

Jodi wrote “irst, women do not use 50% more in either FICA or health insurance premiums, ”

The average age of retirement in the US is 65 years. Women on average live to 80 years while men on average live to 75 years. Since women on average draw SS for 15 years while men on average draw for 10 years, women on average draw 50% more than men.

Of course, this doesn’t include women’s survivor benefits : women receive the Survivor benefits of their male spouse (lives 5 fewer years, 2 yr difference in married age) for an average of 7 yrs.

Women don’t pay more in health insurance premiums. Instead, women consume more health insurance services, due in part to women demanding more for female-specific care and due in balance to the longer female life span. As women cast of their tired gender roles as homemakers, women are expected to pay their way : my body, my choice, my expense.

When men pay more in taxes for starting wars, when men are made to pay 50% of the cost for a child’s upbringing, when laws are changed to ensure that stay at home moms are entitled to equal financial access as their husbands, when men have to pay for women’s healthcare costs for women who are battered and abused, when women get paid the same as men for the same work, and when women’s work is valued as much as men’s, then I’ll consider your proposal.

On average, women work fewer years full-time, retire earlier, live 5 years longer than men, and marry men that are 2 years older. That is 7 five years of SS survivor benefits. Even divorced women receive the survivor benefits of their deceased ex-husband after a 10 year marriage (revised from the previous limit of a 20 year marriage).

And Jodi, when you make statements like “men start wars,” you instantly lose ALL credibility. But that’s the attitude and world view you’ve been spoon fed in your academic “career,” and there’s about 0.00000000001% chance of salvaging your intellect from the intellectual wrecking yard that is modern academia.

Boydnar,
Except that it is true. Women have not had the political power in modern society, so it is quite unreasonable to say that women are responsible for wars. The point I was making is that it is equally ridiculous to try to make men pay extra taxes (since they are the ones who dominate politics and therefore are the ones who engage in the wars) as it is to try to make women pay more for health insurance because they have extra healthcare costs related to pregnancy.

It IS quite unreasonable to say that women have been responsible for wars, for the reason (and others) that you specify. It is however, unhelpful and, in many cases, outrageous to say that ‘men are responsible for wars’.
A correct analysis, easy to make, would be that ‘those making war have been men’ but it is not good enough to allow this become, as it has under much feminist critique, the idea that ‘men are naturally war-makers’ and/or (much more spuriously) ‘women are natural peace-makers’ or, especially outrageously, ‘a world where women had Power would not have contained wars’ (this IS a common representation implicit or explicit within the historical critiques of some, if not most feminisms)
When we get down to aggressive behaviour, which under special circumstances (‘Power’) can become ‘war’, there is no gender predisposition. This is observable readily by anyone without recourse to the abstractions of statistics. There may be a predisposition for men to resort to violence but this must be matched by an observation that women may be predisposed to emotional violence, particularly to other women.
Where the first observation, about men, is generally acceptable to all, the second is apparently absolutely unacceptable without accusations of ‘misogyny’ and/or ‘sexism’.
Yet who has NOT observed this?

Michael, again I think you missed the point. My comments were not “oooh, look how violent men are. If only women ruled the world…” I’m not an idiot and I’m not naive. I know that women are as capable of violence as men because they are full, complete human beings. And no, it is NOT a “common” representation within historical critiques of feminism, only some. The myth of matriarchal prehistory, a Golden Age where all was wonderful because women were in charge, is just that; a myth. Myths are meant to have meaning. That myth is popular in women’s spirituality because it has meaning to women who have been victims of violence. It has meaning to women who seek less aggressive societies. Yes, it’s based in flawed logic. Myths don’t have to be factually correct to be true. They just have to resonate someway with the people who believe in them. There are plenty of male-centered myths that are as equally incorrect, but that doesn’t mean they are untrue. Like the Adam and Eve myth. Eve is blamed for Adam’s bad behavior and is held accountable for “tempting” him and causing the downfall of man.

Jodi wrote “In fact, many of the anti-circumcision campaigns have been led by…wanna guess? FEMINISTS.”

Feminists ?!?!

Circumcision in the US began its decline when the men circumcised in the mass infant penis cutting programs of the 1960-80s came of age. Only then did the circumcision rate in the US decline, though stubbornly slow because it is difficult to convince US mothers that a infant’s penis is not so disgusting that is must be sculpted in a painful procedure.

My mother chose to circumcise all of the boys in my family during the 1960’s. Her reason : “Everyone was doing it.” No doctor forced her. Penis-cutting was trendy. I believe my long-term sexual health was comprised by the procedure. I spared my son the indignity.

I think it is reasonable for a circumcised man to expect a woman to have cleansed, desensitized genitals in a female circumcision that removed the entire clitoral prepuce (foreskin) as well as look down on women with a revulsion that is complementary to the revulsion that US women express about uncut male genitals. Adults, male or female, should be free to circumcise themselves as often as they like. Children should not be forced into genital mutilation.

Nearly all of the books written against male circumcision are by male authors, including some Jewish authors. Notable exceptions are female author Hannie Lightfoot’s books which primarily focus on female circumcision, a rare procedure in the US even before the girl, but not boy, child genital mutilation federal ban of 1996 .

All of the major anti-circumcision websites in the US are run by circumcised men.

All of the video documentaries against male circumcision were written and produced by men, notably “Cut “. All of the gruesome circumcision videos were also filmed/videotaped by male producers.

In the Media, Dr. Dean Edell was the popular TV doctor that condemned circumcision :

Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed.”
– Dean Edell M.D. National Radio Host
”

Dr. Dean Edell
“It’s only mean America that cling to this out-moded belief, we squeaky clean Americans who have sudzed the world. We have cleansed it with our products and out anti-baterial jihad.

The hygiene issue is hysterical. It goes something like this. This is dirty. So let’s cut it off. If indeed a foreskin is dirty, then the vagina is
dirty. If indeed an excuse for circumcision is that the foreskin is dirty, then we have an even better excuse to circumcise females. Soap and water is the solution.”

Feminists continue to be very vocal about female circumcision, and whenever the topic about male circumcision was raised, these women refused to discuss mass scale boy infant genital mutilation in favor of focusing on girls in Africa. Also, these Feminists did not want to clash with a loose religious/cultural practice of 0.1% of the population.

If you would take two seconds to look it up, you’d see there you have MANY feminist allies in this fight. I heard of the Genital Mutilation Prohibition Act being submitted to Congress from feminist boards and blogs. It’s not the women who are standing in your way, Ian. It’s evangelicals who are leading the fight against bans on circumcision.

Women have been VERY active in anti-circumcision campaigns. If you’d get over your hatred of feminists for just two seconds, you will see that you do have allies in that battle.

Why do you insist that women hate uncut penises? I’ve never met a woman who went “eeeeeew, he wasn’t circumcised!” Never.

I’ve seen the damage that is caused by circumcision; I’ve even seen the damage caused by botched circumcisions. It’s horrible.

Stop arguing with me! I AM ON YOUR SIDE HERE. Take the allies you can get in this, since it is clearly an important issue for you. I have your back on this and I know tons of other women who would have your back too.

Every friend I’ve had who has boys has said something along the lines of “I wish I’d known the truth about circumcision, because I would have never done it. The doctor said I had to for his health. I regret it.”

Thank you for the most intelligent response I have seen to the discussion I bagan on this site. “Cosmeticc surgery|” is the operative descriptiom I am surprised and and gratified that women are leading in the effort to discontinue this barbaric practice. In my family we have had women also lead in stopping this horrible practice. My cousin opted to not have her son, my godson mutilated but left intact Meanwhile his cousin needed sugery to restore his genitals to normal functioning.

The only problem I had in viewing you excellent video was the techinical problems and the inabilty to access your other sites. Thank you! Thank you!

I really appreciate the intelligent well-researched reply you gave to this hot botton issue. When I first posted this subject I did not expect the zealous attacks it illicted. It is odd that those who believe man was created in the image of God alsp believe God made a mistake they must “correct.” After the last botched mutilation in my family none of us will ever again subject our male children to this unnecessay and dangerous procedure.

It appears to be true that ‘men start wars’. It can also be as true to say that ‘women start fights’. In fact, the words ‘men’ and ‘women’ have to be left out of both statements, if and when they imply that, as a general rule, men will start wars and all women will start fights.

Of course, these statements are fine until you happen to the woman who doesn’t start fights or the man who doesn’t start wars.

Men start wars. Men finish wars.
Men explore new territory, across land, sea, air and even outerspace.
Men invent.
Men build industry.
Men build civilizations.
Women, men and children benefit from all of the above.

Women aren’t very interested in participating in the above, even today. Women are primarily focused on themselves.
Feminism is about the advancement of women at the expense of men.
Feminism is the institutionalized NAG.

MIchael K wrote “There may be a predisposition for men to resort to violence but this must be matched by an observation that women may be predisposed to emotional violence, ”

I think a more accurate way to look at it is that women don’t have an equivalent or complementary strength but merely a different behavior. Women would like to be as physically violent as men, but instead they choose weapons and chemicals. Women are more violent against children and log the bulk of child abuse and infanticide. That shouldn’t be a surprise. Children spend most of their lives with women, be it at home or in school K-6.

The average US child experiences his/her first male school teacher in middle school. The only adult men typically seen at elementary schools are P/E instructors or custodial staff that clean the hallways and toilets.

I wonder how much money the last “fight” a woman started cost our taxpayers? That was the point of the discussion about men starting wars. This kind of “well… men do this but women do that” stuff isn’t getting anyone anywhere.

Ian, your assertion that women aren’t “interested” in doing those things is totally false. They’ve been actively excluded from those things, so their lack of participation is not from lack of trying. Women during the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution made numerous advances in technology, medical research, astronomy and every other field, but they were BANNED, actively BANNED from membership in the Royal Society and French Academie. Women were banned from publishing at all until the 19th century. Women laid the technological foundations of the Internet, yet all you hear about are the MEN who invented it. Women have been pivotal workers in every stage of human development. Just because you don’t hear about them doesn’t mean they didn’t do they work. They just weren’t credited for it.

There is certainly plenty of ‘evidence’ of the suppression of women-as-innovators throughout ‘history’ but of course it depends on whose history you’re looking at. Irish history, for example, actively created ‘historical’ accounts of the feminine influence, although subsequent histories may decry these for their own agendas.

Within media studies, some (major) feminist critique seeks to enlighten as to the mechanisms of history-as-polemic without drawing attention to itself as practicing the same mechanisms.
Specifically, while being one of the first ‘forces’ within media critique to call for ‘disintermediation’ generally, feminist academics have seriously expected to have their own mediations treated as ‘biblical’ interpretation of reality.

I repeat my call for disintermediation and praise those who first proposed it. A world not based upon YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE is mere hearsay and I tend to regard all histories and all comment purporting ‘truth’ as I would items on FoxNews. It is, seriously, only a matter of time before this ‘realisation’ sweeps the world.

Put bluntly, when a ‘male-biased’ account of things is supplanted by a ‘female-biased’ account, I cancel my subscriptions.

The world is perceivable from right where I am and from where I am, no trait is hidden from everyone, no history is accepted by everyone. Media says otherwise and feminists, depressingly are among those who decry (spurious) general ‘acceptances’ which I see only in media. Choose your sources wisely. Turn off, tune out, drop in.

(I think it wise to indicate, again, that I am not targetting any person(a) for their comments but replying within a discourse of texts)

Jodi wrote “Why do you insist that women hate uncut penises? I’ve never met a woman who went “eeeeeew, he wasn’t circumcised!” ”

You don’t have this experience because you’re not a man. I’m sure if you asked your male friends if they ever dipped in a woman with cottage cheese bits or gorgonzola ooze (and faked an orgasm to shorten the experience), you’d also receive a sanitized response.

I’m circumcised, but I can’t tell you how many women (all American) expressed great relief that I was “cut.” They went on to say they would not not have sex with an uncut man as they thought a normal (not their words as circumcised is normal to them) was too disgusting. While I didn’t experience the treatment directly, it’s clear to me that there is a very strong preference for their version of a less disgusting penis. If I ever entered the dating scene again, I would be a wise ass and ask them why their clitoral hoods were not removed. Surely, a bare clitoris would be easier to clean and probably look cleaner,and, most significantly, “look like” the female complement of a circumcised male.

I use gender to mean social constructions of what society expects men and women to do and how they should behave (i.e. gender roles expect women to be docile and domesticated, men to be political and physically aggressive, etc). Sex is your sex distinction (born with male or female genitalia).

There are only a few men that start wars, and I don’t think they have United Healthcare, Kaiser Permanente or any other private insurance. An insurance company collects payments from its subscribers and doles out benefits claims. What does a war have to do with that?
What about the remaining 99.99998% of men that don’t start wars?
Should these men pay more because some other men start wars? I’ve never met anyone that started a war.

And why should men as a group pay more for health insurance because a handful of government leaders start wars ? If their government hasn’t started any wars in 50-100 years, should men in that country still pay more in health insurance?

Charging men the same price for health insurance when women consume more health services is group discrimination by sex in pricing.

Auto insurance companies charge by sex, not individual habits. Sure, men as a group cost more to insure because men drive 50% more miles on average and generally drive more expensive cars than women. Do you think that sex discrimination in auto insurance should be illegal ? (women pay lower rates) What about life insurance ? (women pay lower rates)

The use of the word ‘gender’ instead of ‘sex’ implies that there is a choice in the matter. Many are uncomfortable writing the word ‘sex’ and substitute the word gender only to reduce the dirtiness of their message.
The use of the word sex is more accurate because it describes your overall stature, genitalia, brain anatomy,etc. that is determined by the presence of your Y chromosome. There are exceptions, but not enough to do away with the protections and privileges demanded by the XX group.

Likely, my perspective on the use of the ‘sex’ is due to my try-lingual upbringing with two other languages that include genderized nouns. In one language, ‘table’ is of the male gender and female in the other language while ‘cup’ is of the female gender in both.

Jodi wrote “Not once have you addressed any of the serious issues women face.”

You’re posting in a forum for men’s issues bearing a title that indicates discussion about the plague of Feminism from a man’s perspective may be found here. There are plenty of online fora dedicated to discussing Feminist demands, but this is not one of them.

So, a forum for men’s issues shouldn’t include ideas on how men can work toward a more cooperative existence with women?? As my parents said, “If all you’re going to do is complain, but not offer any solutions, stop talking.”

We’re here to talk about solutions to men’s problems and also to make men aware of the growing Men’s Rights movements. Most men are not yet able to articulate men’s problems and very few are able to make a list of these issues.

I don’t see much talk about solutions to men’s issues on Feminist fora, probably because women don’t think that men have any issues that need to be solved, at least not before women’s problems are addressed. For example, you’re making it quite clear that when men fall behind in education, even more encouragement and female-only scholarships are needed for women. What kind of a solution is that ?

— EDUCATION GAP —
I haven’t heard Obama or Romney mention the “education gap” or “life span gap” or any other male specific issues and propose funding to close them. Without fail, each candidate mentions the sex wage gap, usually implying some sort of discrimination is at hand and never mentioning that women work fewer hours.

I’d like to the President open an Office of Men’s Affairs will be created to manage and fund men’s education until the gap is closed. Instead, I do hear that the US Dept of Commerce (USDC) is providing funds to help more women, but not men, with entry into STEM programs until there is sex parity. So, when will the USDC show concern about the lack of sex parity in Bachelor’s degrees ?

— HEALTH AND LIFESPAN GAP —
Not a single office national office exists for men’s health. There are several for women’s health. The CDC studies men’s health, but still, women receive the lion’s share. Whenever a government website is listed for women, an attempt to find an equivalent for men yield’s “.. can’t find the server”

In cancer funding, breast cancer receives the most funding per new case, while prostate cancer, the most common cancer, receives the least funding per new case. More money spent on men’s health and less on women’s health so that they both enjoy similar life spans.

As in, using the word ‘gender’ implies that a male or female has a choice of being a man or a woman or neither. The drive behind the “gender is a social construct” is to destroy the the distinction between male and female, but we all know it is about suppressing male culture and behavior.

Oh, something else you completely do not understand. Gender was not invented to destroy your culture, Ian. It is a way of understand expected roles of men and women. It’s not written in stone. It’s fluid. Gender can be changed because it is a social construct. Sex cannot be changed without surgery.

“We’re here to talk about solutions to men’s problems and also to make men aware of the growing Men’s Rights movements.”

~ Good, as you should be. Don’t forget to talk about the parts where men improve themselves and improve the lives of those around them.

“I don’t see much talk about solutions to men’s issues on Feminist fora…”

~You’re not looking hard enough.

“… probably because women don’t think that men have any issues that need to be solved, at least not before women’s problems are addressed.” ~ not true

“For example, you’re making it quite clear that when men fall behind in education, even more encouragement and female-only scholarships are needed for women. What kind of a solution is that ?”

~ Absolutely not. I’m making it clear that not giving men a clear advantage over women anymore is not discriminatory to men. It’s leveling the playing field. Men have NOT been actively forced out of colleges or actively denied the right to enter college. Women have. Now you have to deal with the consequences of our society having to play catch up so that women and men can compete fairly in education.

“I haven’t heard Obama or Romney mention the “education gap” or “life span gap” or any other male specific issues and propose funding to close them.”

~ Again, because women are SO far behind men, most of the focus is on women and women’s health issues (an issue forced by republicans who were supposed to be creating jobs but instead decided to insert themselves into women’s personal decision). That’s a consequence of ignoring women for generations. Now you have a whole host of problems that have to be fixed. Interesting how when something is done for women, it has to be qualified as being for women, but when everything else has been for the benefit for men, that has just been normal. You would have a good argument if men and women had been treated equally all this time and suddenly everything was becoming beneficial for women. Again, you can’t tie someone’s shoes together at the start of the race and get mad when someone help them untie their shoes.

“In cancer funding, breast cancer receives the most funding per new case, while prostate cancer, the most common cancer, receives the least funding per new case. More money spent on men’s health and less on women’s health so that they both enjoy similar life spans.”

~ you don’t cause one group to die early just so you can close the gap. That’s just stupid. You improve longevity for both. That shouldn’t even need to be said…

Whenever I hear the word ‘We’ without the person uttering it having been appointed, I know I’m being lied to. This is why many women feel that their (self-)appointed feminist representatives do not represent them, particularly when they over-egg the pudding. It is also true here that, as a male, I do not find any ‘me’ in ‘we all know it is about suppressing male culture and behavior’.
I agree, though, that ‘gender’, in the hands of some, possibly most, academic feminists (whose practical aim, in my opinion, has been to create and entrench within academic research, an niche area in which to build ideological influence upon administrative society and serve the position, not of women, but of academic/radical feminist authority) has been a social construct under severe partisan management.

“There are only a few men that start wars…An insurance company collects payments from its subscribers and doles out benefits claims. What does a war have to do with that?”

~You want to charge women more for health insurance because they use it to stay healthy (which is why they live longer) or penalize them and cut out their healthcare so they die sooner, like men. That’s just as ridiculous as holding men accountable for wars they didn’t even start. You want everything to be based on a person’s gender, but since men are 99.99998% more likely to start a war than a woman, let all men pay for it! No? Oh, then maybe you shouldn’t be advocating gender-based discrimination in terms of healthcare and life insurance.

“Charging men the same price for health insurance when women consume more health services is group discrimination by sex in pricing.”

~ Bull. Charging men the same amount as women and denying them health services because of their sex, while given benefits to women is discriminatory. Kinda like how women have had to pay just as much as men for health insurance, but have historically been denied access to care that they need, like birth control (which is used for more than just preventing pregnancies, in case you weren’t aware), cancer screenings, and other services.

“Auto insurance companies charge by sex, not individual habits. Sure, men as a group cost more to insure because men drive 50% more miles on average and generally drive more expensive cars than women. Do you think that sex discrimination in auto insurance should be illegal ? (women pay lower rates) What about life insurance ? (women pay lower rates)”

~ Shouldn’t men pay more for auto insurance because they are a higher liability and pay more for health insurance/life insurance because they are a higher liability? Statistically they cause more accidents and they statistically do not use preventative health services to keep themselves healthy. You try to make it sound like women are responsible for men’s lower life expectancy. No, men are responsible for that because they do not go to the doctor when they need to, they are less likely to go for routine checkups, and they do not follow up on treatments as often as women do.

Your words ‘rabid radical feminists trying to take over the world’ do not reflect the spirit or substance of my words ‘some, possibly most, academic feminists whose practical aim, in my opinion, has been to create and entrench within academic research, an niche area in which to build ideological influence upon administrative society and serve the position, not of women, but of academic/radical feminist authority’.

In any case, they’ll never take over the world while women of reason are around to stop them 😉

Although I’m not 100% sure how the forum tools work, it may be that my ability to add a reply to one of yours above has been disabled by a ‘user action’. What I intended to say there is just as relevant here.

My responses are not intended to disparage the makers of other comments, no matter how much I disagree. They are not personal since they are not made, to my perception, by persons. I reply to text on a page with text on a page.
Any decision to interpret this as personal is the user’s choice. I am very particular about my use of language in this regard.

Yes. I’ve now noticed. Anyway…is anyone else ENJOYING this? 😉
And, to be even more nosy, is anyone else feeling that they can think or speak from a standpoint not adequately represented by the terms ‘men’ or ‘women’?

The whole discussion is stupid. The most annoying part is the fact that people like jodi are indoctinated into this bazaar, uber-Lefty, socialist, man-hating, man-blaming world view ON THE TAXPAYERS’ BACK. There’s a whole class of angry, man-blamers who sit around academic halls inventing new ways to hate and blame anyone who doesn’t have a vagina . . . AND THEY NEVER PRODUCE ONE IOTA OF WEALTH. They are leaches, mooches and parasites.

“Men start wars.”

What mindless pap.

Only in such places can people be led to believe that they have a *choice* about their gender.

Insanity on top of stupidity.

Am I enjoying this, Michael? No. Actually I just unsubcribed from the discussion.

Oh you’re right. Feminists caused WWI, WWII, Vietnam, the Gulf wars, Korean war, the genocide at Darfur, the genocide in Rwanda, the war in Somalia, the Spanish American war, the American Civil War, every Civil war that EVER TOOK PLACE….

I really ought to talk to my handler about brainwashing me with the wrong information…

jodi wrote “Feminists caused WWI, WWII, Vietnam, the Gulf wars, Korean war, the genocide at Darfur, the genocide in Rwanda, the war in Somalia, the Spanish American war”

Women were not employed to kill and be killed in wars. Men see female exemption as privilege. Women are not required to register for the draft when they turn 18, but to this day, this is required of men in America. You can find these discriminatory male-only forms on display at your local post office right next to the postage scales and express mail envelopes.

This is summarized with this headline :
“Austrialia has been obliterated : women suffered the most”

Male only draft requirements were laws created by MEN. if you have a problem with it, bring it up with the MEN who created those laws. I don’t think we should have a draft to begin with. If your citizens are not lining up around the block to sign up for military service when they need to, it’s not a war you should be in.

Jodi wrote “You try to make it sound like women are responsible for men’s lower life expectancy.”

No. I’m arguing that if a little more money were spent on men (look at Federal breast cancer vs. prostate cancer research funding) and a little less money were spent on women to close the life expectancy gap, that would be fair. This would help grandpa lives just as many years as grandma.

The consistency in my health, auto and life insurance arguments is that subscribers in a group (in this case, men and women) pay premiums in proportion to a group’s use of services. Your argument is : men always pay more than women. At least you’re consistent with Feminist ideology, which is the shift of money and power to women at the expense of men.

Yeah. And I’d like to get way beyond all of this kind of sectarianism into some fresh fields like why those who dont drive pay their share of the roads and then get treated like incidental roadkill should they attempt to cross them. I’d also like to address, as a non-father, the fact of having to pay for schools to raise the hellspawn of misogynist and feminist hookups and I’d definitely like to take up the matter of being marginalised into the wall when it comes to being free to not agree with either side of the flat-earth politics that keep everything going round in a yaboo kiddie screaming match that hypes itself as adult.

If it’s a choice between misandry or misogyny, I’d always choose misanthropy.

Jodi wrote “when men are made to pay 50% of the cost for a child’s upbringing”

Men contribute the bulk of assets and income to any household. Upper middle class and Upper class women never need (and most don’t) to work a single day in their lives after marriage. When will women contribute 50% of the income to every household?

“when laws are changed to ensure that stay at home moms are entitled to equal financial access as their husbands, ”

That sounds like financial enslavement. Imagine a stay-at-home Dad wanting equal access to his wife’s assets

“when men have to pay for women’s healthcare costs for women who are battered and abused”

Men already pay for women’s healthcare costs. Men are battered and abused in the household at rate equal to women.

“when women get paid the same as men for the same work”

Women are already paid the same as men for the same work. The main problem is that women in the US overwhelmingly work in different sectors, so much that even the US Dept. of Labor found it difficult. Though, they did find that women worked shorter work weeks and logged very little overtime hours.

“and when women’s work is valued as much as men’s, then I’ll consider your proposal.”

Feminist economics. When the pay rate is raised on so-called women’s work, men will switch from so-called men’s work to women’s work. Then, no one will be left to do the men’s jobs. There will be more workers competing for the new higher pay “women’s work”, and the pay rate will be cut to reflect worker supply. The pay for so-called men’s jobs will be raised to attract workers, and men will fill these higher paid jobs. Female workers need to be paid much more than a man to do so-called men’s work.

BULLSHIT. I consider myself feminist and I love men, I really really do
and I think violence is disgusting it doesnt matter if it´s a man against a woman or a woman against a man.
That´s what I believe in: if you are violent it doesnt matter if you’re a man or a woman: you´re a bad PERSON

Ian, I’m talking about child support which is grossly unfair to women and children who are left behind. Child support laws are horribly in favor of men, who often are ordered to pay substantially less than what they would have to if they’d remained married.

A stay at home Dad should have equal access to his wife’s assets.

You’re just using domestic violence figures. You’re not even considering how many women are raped and abused outside of the “household.”

No, women are not paid the same as men for the same work. i.e. nurses (overwhelmingly women) work longer hours and have much more difficult jobs than doctors (i.e. getting the shit beat out of them by violent patients, having to lift and roll obese patients with no equipment to help, getting splattered with blood, shit, and vomit, working 12 hours shifts, coordinating ALL of a patient’s medical care) and are much more engaged in a patient’s care, yet they make less than a quarter of what male doctors make. Why? Because it’s primarily a women’s field.

If men and women were being paid fairy and hired fairly, and if everyone was well compensated for their work, there wouldn’t be any gaps.

Nurses and doctors do not do the same job and arrive with a different education (time, money). If nurses and doctors did the same job, cost-conscious hospitals wouldn’t employ any doctors. Hospitals don’t employ male doctors just to have dudes in the hallway.

There are plenty of young nurses and very few old nurses. With doctors, there are more older doctors and very few young doctors. That implies that nursing doesn’t require a lot of experience as hospitals don’t pay for it.

A nurse’s routine involves highly repetitive tasks: take a temperature reading, take blood pressure, talk to patient, log and collect urine, change IV bags and patient mounting. There are health risks associated with the job, and that is the premium paid over other routine-oriented labor. Would you be willing to pay for a staff nurse to remove your breast tumor ?

Do male and female nurses do the same job? While visiting a friend with a long-term illness in the hospital, I noticed the elderly patient across the hall being moved several times to/from bed to gurney over the course of a week. Either one male nurse or five female nurses were needed to do the job, and the ladies needed much more time. Whenever any heavy equipment was moved, nearly always, the job was for the male nurse. Should male and female nurses be paid the same ? This is why one of the three male specific scholarship programs I could find was for nursing.

Jodi wrote “I’m talking about child support which is grossly unfair to women and children who are left behind. Child support laws are horribly in favor of men,”

This is only because you don’t think that women gain anything by stealing the children, the biocapital of the family. Restraint order grants are grossly in favor of women. The order is granted, the father is ejected from the house, and then, in a lengthy court process spanning years, the case is examined. Fathers spend tons of money on lawyers to re-gain some access to children. “In the best interest of the child” is a euphemism for “whatever the mother wants.”

“often are ordered to pay substantially less than what they would have to if they’d remained married.”

After an additional household is made, there isn’t much money left. Marriage between co-resident biological parents offers the economic efficiency of a shared household, but usually, this entails a man forking over every dollar he earns and a woman putting in more time in the household as an exchange.

The minutiae of this tete-a-tat give away the nature of the ‘battle of the sexists’ in which you’re both determined to ‘represent’ your brotha/sistahood without authorisation. These are not general points about inequality; these are specific grumbles equivalent to other discussions which might involve ‘Why does a guy/gal who’s taller than me/got bigger breasts than me get served first at the bar?’

Equality is not possible. Communism promised it but required the imposition of the state over the individual without the assurance of delivery of the promised item. Feminisms do not define an offer of equality to be sought or given. Menifism simply acquires the language of feminists to complain about ‘state feminism’ (currently officially available only in Sweden) of the same things as feminists did in regard of ‘male domination’.

Since the doctors almost killed my stepfather with medicines and the nurses were the ones who caught it in time to stop the hemorrhage, yeah. i’d trust nurses before doctors. Yes, nurses should be paid the same (male nurses make more than women..shocker!)

You should be asking MEN why these things are considered to be men’s work.

Again, you don’t go killing off a portion of the population to even the score, Ian. It’s not a matter of women pushing men off of ladders, you know. Men work in dangerous jobs. Women aren’t hired for these jobs, not paid well for these jobs, and not respected in these jobs, so it’s a no brainer to see why more women aren’t going for these jobs.

One way to reduce doctor pay is to lower educational requirements to that of a nurse. One way to increase nurse pay is to increase the educational requirements of nurses. When the supply of doctors increases, doctor pay will fall. When the supply of nurses decreases, nurse pay will increase. Though, when pay increases, hospitals will try to employ fewer higher pay workers.

I see your point about wanting higher pay for nurses. Though, when the pay is increased, more men will compete for the jobs. Nursing will be decreasingly “women’s work.” Is the Feminist “Gender-Fair Work Value” proposal about higher pay for “women’s work”, but not “men’s work” (hard, dangerous manual labor) coupled with legal restrictions to prevent men from applying for “women’s work” jobs ?

Women don’t even apply for the dirty/dangerous jobs, and apply much less for jobs with extended, irregular, night time or weekend hours. The reason women are not hired in construction is only because women are far less productive in that line of work. Less productive workers that earn the same pay are not respected anywhere. For day-time corporate construction jobs, if there is a woman in the team, she will be the one holding the clipboard and handling the communications on the phone. For night-time corporate construction, I have yet to see a woman on the crew.

Thanks to Laura for expressing her true feelings in her post. I began pasting her quote on some online dating forums. I think it is important that we recognize, acknowledge, and name the reality of emotional sets such as Laura’s. I’m just not quite sure what to call it.

We as women, should kill all men, extract their sperm for artificial insemination. We do not need men, they are morally, corrupt, which has had a devestating effect on our society as a whole. Stop letting these useless wastes of human life molest our children, rape our women, abuse, neglect, cheat, lie, and must I go on and on?!?!?!!?? Ladies, we all know the truth about men. They never should have existed in the first place!! They truely are scum!!! If it were a perfect world, we would re-create the male gene to no longer exist, and find a way to procreate without them! Ladies, if you love penetration during sex…then get with a girl who likes using a strap on! Its better than sex with men!!! I can guarantee it!!! “Lets Keep It Anti- Man!!!!!!!!!”

No one is saying men are responsible for the biological differences between men and women. But feminists do hold men accountable for making women second-class citizens, denying them their right to participate fully as citizens, to make their own health decisions, to be paid a fair wage for the work they do because of the perceived “weaknesses” of women because they are not men. Quick question, Donald. What kinds of insults to men use to tease boys who aren’t “manly” enough? What do they call them? I’ll give you a hint: “Oh, he hits like a ___________” or “He throws like a __________.” Figure it out yet?

Nonsense. American women are the most pampered creatures on the planet. They work less, invent less, trade sex for money, live longer and rely on Feminism (the movement of the Nag) to guilt men into giving them a cut. The lower 10% of women do zero work for government handouts. The upper 10% of women do nothing but receive gifts from rich men. Overall, women are more expensive than men. The poorest people in the US are homeless men. There is no female equivalent of that in America. Some men are at the top and the bottom. Most men and all women are in the middle.

I’ll repeat the hypergamy that you pretended to be incapable of understanding : women choose men with more income, higher status and above average height. If you want a sampling of 2nd class citizens, look how women of all income classes treat men of lower socioeconomic class. Every man is reminded of this. With equal education and income, when compared to a woman of breeding age, a man is 2nd class. For women, this power peaks in their mid 20’s, drops quickly around age 30 and falls off a cliff at age 35. Perhaps this is why older women latch on to Feminist supremacist dogma : it is difficult for them to adjust to being treated like a man.

Ian, that is the biggest bunch of horseshit I’ve ever heard. American women are pampered… What a crock of shit. American women work hard as mothers, wives, students, and employees. You will just spew any kind of crap just to keep the argument going. Keep your idiotic comments to yourself. I’m done with your stupidity. I have no interest in arguing with a misogynistic idiot.

Well, some pampered American women still want even more pampering. That’s Feminism : harnessing the industry of the male . Men do all of the heavy manual labor, creation and civilization. Women provide the criticism.

Jodi, “horseshit” and “misogynistic idiogts” aside, you were arguing against American women being pampered. I don’t care who owns or controls the advertising industry, or whether it originated on Mars or in the DNA of Benobo chimps. The fact is, a steady influential voice is continually putting into American consciousness that women “deserve” to be pampered. I acknowledge your point. I also label it as pure distraction. I bet you win a lot of arguments and lose a lot of friends that way. It seems pretty obvious that you’ve learned mindless competitive attitude from grossly immature men. Congratulations, you’re one step down the road to Antisocial (i.e., criminal) thinking. So I acknowledge your ability to word-compete – I just hope you don’t become my neighbor.

Paul,
You crack me up. Your comments are just like the BS comments that women ALWAYS hear when they reject that kind of nonsense. “Oh, you’re must be a feminist because you hate your daddy.” Or my favorite “you must be a feminist because you haven’t been laid in years.” I’m going to add yours to the list: “You don’t agree with me so you must be a bitter lonely sociopath.” Pardon me while I roll my eyes.

Blaming women for being pampered and claiming so based solely on advertising on television that is created by men and marketed to women is so totally illogical that it almost doesn’t deserve a response. Almost.

Here’s a scenario. Let’s talk about pampered: Get the kids up, make breakfast, get everyone ready for school/work, drive everyone to where they need to go, go to work for 8 or more hours, come home to a dirty house, get the kids out the door for soccer/scouts/doctor’s appointments/etc, get home, clean up, cook dinner, clean up dinner, make lunches for tomorrow, make a grocery list AND do the shopping, put everything away, clean up after the pets, balance the check book, help the kids with their homework, pick up your children’s/husband’s mess, coordinate everyone to get a shower and get ready for bed, sleep with your husband, and then maybe, MAYBE you get to take a bubble bath. Those selfish bitches!

Advertisers pump a steady diet of “You Deserve ….” into the culture. Your first argument was that “It’s The Men!” Irrelevant. Your second argument is … actually I’m not sure what your second argument is, because it’s so rambling I can’t even figure it out. I think it’s just name-calling — this time, I am “illogical.”

The problem with that is that you once again misunderstood what I said. I am not “BLAMING WOMEN” for being pampered. I am blaming advertisers.

Your third argument seems to be that housewives (help me out a litlte bit here – what’s the current PC word for them? Home Work Persons?) work very hard. That goes without saying. But people can work hard and still be spoiled, self-centered, bratty, and have a Martyr attitude. I don’t know if you work hard, but you sure seem to have the martyrdom down pretty good. So good that you don’t seem to be doing anything here but personally attacking anybody who dares to disagree with you.

Horseshit, crock of shit, spewing shit, stupidity, misogynistic idiot, BS comments, nonsense – those are all examples of verbal abuse, and they are designed to stop communication. You seem to live in a fantasy world that many teachers fall victim to, one in which you can change reality just by describing it differently. Doesn’t work in the real world, and the real world will not accommodate such fantasies for your convenience.

BTW, I appreciate you and your husband for being teachers. I also appreciate him for serving in the military, and for doing correctional work. Correctional officers don’t get nearly enough credit for the hard, dangerous and dirty work they do, nor enough appreciation for helping keep society safe. I’ve been there, and I appreciate all the CO’s I ever had the privilege to work beside.

What you were arguing was that women are spoiled and your proof of that was advertising that was created by men showing spoiled women. Get a grip.

Read that again. After 8 hours of work (not a housewife, a working mom) has to do all of those things. Working moms AND housewives work very hard on a consistent basis. Perhaps you should learn to appreciate that more often and maybe you would see them as more than just spoiled, self-centered pampered women. Notice how I didn’t mention Hubby who works his whole 8 hour day and comes home to someone who cooks and cleans for him….

Do I work hard? My house is messy. And it’ll stay that way until I feel like cleaning it or someone else decides to clean it. Which means, it’ll stay messy until I clean it. I have no problem with being responsible for the housework because it’s my house.

Let me make this perfectly clear: I don’t care if you don’t like my choice of words. You want to make this about vocabulary? Talk about distraction. I’m not going to temper myself and not call out bullshit when I see bullshit because you suddenly get offended by my verbal “abuse.” Take a look at this board and look at the nasty things people have said about me, feminists, and women in general. If you can’t handle a curse word, maybe you shouldn’t be discussing these issues.

And how about that sweeping generalization about teachers?! Wow. I must say, that was quite a creative argument… teachers live in fantasy worlds as martyrs. And your insinuations about my life are boring, childish, and irrelevant. I don’t care if you think I’m lonely, bitter, living in a fantasy, etc. Only an idiot makes assumptions about people’s lives when they know nothing about them other than the formation of letters they see on a screen.

PC word for working mom?? Would you prefer “Woman of child bearing age who had children but also works in gainful employment?” A housewife is a housewife. A working mom works outside of the home. BOTH of them work their asses off so smarmy children like you can call them spoiled and selfish.

Sorry, Ian, man but all I see here is your account of your perceived game of ‘Becoming an Alpha Male’ and its trials, tribulations, disappointments and perceived injustices. Yes, this game is offered to males…but by males.
Maternal encouragements, even by your own account, have tended towards encouraging daughters to find love and status through men. It is only the encouragement of female peer-group that will stand any chance of actuating ‘independence’ of this in women (again, in the account of things that you favour). Therefore feminism is ‘necessary. But only IF a female relies upon peer groups for self-validation and/or the validation of her gender group.
While those that do are the subject of advertising and media, there is always the possibility and reality of ‘Becoming an independent woman’ which goes the whole way beyond the peer-group

Meanwhile, the corresponding peer group for males is that group of menifists called THE JOCKS who seem to represent access to ‘Becoming an Alpha Male’. In their wake, all experience and opinion of most things, including women, is filtered through an attitude of extreme and ruthless competition, unless, that is, by some miracle of self, the boy becomes a man on his OWN terms.

Of course, to the independent woman, the boy who becomes a man on his own terms, is much more attractive. Even as a boy, I found such independent girls and they found a boy not interested in what mum, dad or the peer-group think or say but in discussion of a greater range of possibilities for living.
Through the company of girls and women, I got to hear about the variety rather than the stereotypes of women. Across the room were male friends who entered adolescence thinking of girls as weak and boys as strong. All I saw was boys in a very weak position to become attractive men other than through gaining worldly and material status.
Amongst the adoloescent girls, there was little talk of ‘men and their money’ and even less of ‘men and their dicks’. The peer-group there is also about competition for material tokens -clothes, makeup, and the attentions of the best-looking boys. Secondary tokens might be ‘boyfriends who buy me things’ but the first to criticise such an approach will be the women in the competition who regard THAT as ‘cheating’.
Meanwhile, independent girls talk to independent boys and if they don’t get together with each other, what they will gain is a wider knowledge of reality.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in the philosophy of peer-groups, including feminists, bitches, jocks and bastards.

I hasten to add, for the avoidance of doubt, that the above is not meant to be personal to anyone reading it. I’m trying to delineate where any of us stand in relation to what might be called ‘the dominant discourse’ and, more particularly, to DENY that it is the only world there is to live in.

Jodi, I am not saying that feminist hold men responsiible for all the differences between men and women; however there is a denial of the obvious differences between men and women in our society and many femiinist arguments seem to try to equate men and women in all aspects. There are undeniable differences beyond the genitalia.,

Your point about men teasing other men and boys about being effete is valid, but again this is from women also. I attended an accelerated program which had me grauate from high school two months after my 16th birhday. Exacerbating this was the fact that I was slow developing physically and my voice did most its deeping the summer after high school and thankfully was more or less complete when I started college. Yes, I was one of those teased. I was always one of if the last ones chosen when the boys chose players in sports teams. But women are also quilty of this type of hazing and stereotyping. The most painfull example I remember was my 11th grade history teacher who enjoyed humilating me in front of the enitre class by causing me to try to lower my voice and speak slowly to sound more masculine. While the class snickered she seized upon every opportunity to denigrate my nascent masculinity and to insult me in a Dorothy Parker manner.

In addition, a rule was established in our new school swimming pool that the girls were issued swimming suits while the boys were required to swim in the nude under the pretext that the lint from our swimming truncks would clog the filters of the pool. This was humiliating to the lesser developed boys and was a pedophile’s golden opportunity. As it turned the swimming coach was a pedophile who was not discovered until later years. Luckily boys like me were not the type he preyed on, he wanted more masculine types. I guess even that was a put-down.

I did prefered the company of girls and found most of them to be more accepting of my immaturity. By the time I lost my virginity (to what wound be called a cougar today in a scene out of Tea and Sympathy), I discovered that I was normal and adequate as a man and that I was even sought after by females, A girfriend who became by best tennis partner taught me a valuable lesson when she told me she could smell the Scotch coming out of my pores when we were showering. Meanwhile I get past the taunting of my uncle’s wife who told me that my problem was I wasn’t getting enough pussy and that she doubted my uncles’s masculinity because as a merchant marine he was on a ship with all those “Swedes.”

My point is that there is gender and sexual stereotyping from both men and women It is objectionablel coming from either gender, but. Jodi, it is devastating when a woman does it to a man. I have forgotten the boys who bullied me, but I am still hurt by women who did this to me. When I was working in Central Africa I was introduced to a woman on the national ballet corps and had arranged a date with her. What ended that was when the women in her group started giggling. When I asked my friend what they were saying, because the were speaking Congolese and we communicated in French and I do not speak Congolese, he told me that she said I looked like a girl.. I was so incensed that I did not realize this was a compliment. I should have known because most Congolese women are beautiful while the men are often as ugly as homemade sin (that is if your home is Dracula’s castle). I do realize that was the fault of my fragile male ege, but society haa re-enforced. the need for men to be macho.

Feminists don’t make many allies with their constantly putting all men down. Feminist preoccualtion with masculity also reinforces the negative behavior in men which they find so objectional

Donald,
None of those things have anything to do with feminism. It is horrible what happened to you. None of those people were feminists or men’s rights’ advocates or reformers. They were abusers. And they should have been held accountable for their behavior.

Feminism fights against those kinds of gender shaming tactics, not only for the benefit of girls but for the benefit of boys. Feminism does not say that men and women have to be equal in all aspects. Feminism DOES say that men and women should be valued equally, differences included.

Again, Jodi, I’m not blaming women for every male villain who has ever existed. But not all women are saints and every trait we have is not based on gender. Can you think of any men who admire or al least tolerate?

Why do you assume that I do not admire or tolerate men? I am married to a correctional officer, almost all of the men in my family have served in the military, including my husband, and I teach history. I find many men in the history of the world who have behaved admirably. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Gandhi in particular, because of their non-violent efforts to enact social change. Mark Twain, Nelson Mandela, Bill Clinton (now, not so much when he was playing hanky panky in the oval office), and Barack Obama. I even admire George Bush Jr (now, not so much when he was playing Blow ‘Em Up in the oval office) because of his women’s health care initiatives in Africa since he left office.

Just because I am critical of overly aggressive, male-centric society doesn’t mean I hate men.

“Society” is only the sum total of ‘consensus opinion’. It does not force itself on anyone. It is an option. It is entirely dependent on the individual WILL as to its influence. Those who consume ‘society’ do so freely in the manner of those who consume ‘television’. They are not victims and there is an OFF switch for both.

Gender stereotyping and stereotyping in general are the tools of ‘society’ members to recruit and exclude potential members from the sum total of consensus opinion.

Misandry and misogyny are for society members, each attempting to direct society toward their will.

The rest of us people deal with other people as we find them without reference to society’s ideas.
You may have done this. Keep doing it.

Dear vidzz, You have been severely damaged by abusive relationships. Your response is not rational and you need counseling to pass beyond your bitterness to a more healthy outlook. You need nelp more for yourself more than anyone else.. I wish you luck and hope you will seek the help you desparately need. You are letting your abusers win.

Carmen Gutierrez wrote: Statistics are not true until you cite the source …

I disagree, Carmen. This is an online discussion forum – it’s not a graduate school course. Just to put things in perspective, if you really want to demand the same standards as in a graduate course, then you failed too, since you provided us with no documentation to support your opinions. I gently suggest we ease up on the restrictions we put on other posters.

Carmen also wrote: Also, as a medical student, our neurology courses teach us that it is the neocortex that does the final interpretation of the signals received from the thalamus (originating from the amygdala and hippocampus, aka the limbic regions). In general, we humans have developed the capacity to modulate our emotions regardless of gender.

I wonder where you are going to med school to learn your neurology, because no action potentials “originate” from the amygdala, hippocampus, or the rest of the limbic system. They “originate” in the sense organs, which are in turn activated by events / things in the external environment.

No problem at all, Donald. I figured it was probably something like that. You come across as such an even tempered poster, though, that if you were chewing me out, I figured I must be doing something that I need to take a look at. 🙂

Proud feminist here. I am very sorry that you have met people who have made you feel like you are less of a person. Mistreating someone else is never correct and know that this feminist does not believe in mistreating men either. I completely agree about not circumcising anyone.

Statistics are not true until you cite the source and I can analyze for myself whether the randomized control trial that gave the result findings were legitimate. The other, non-numerical statements are grossly incorrect opinions passed off as fact, so be careful how you present your ideas–unless you are purposefully trying to mislead your readers.

Also, as a medical student, our neurology courses teach us that it is the neocortex that does the final interpretation of the signals received from the thalamus (originating from the amygdala and hippocampus, aka the limbic regions). In general, we humans have developed the capacity to modulate our emotions regardless of gender.

Please note that if you love yourself and have a passion for something and you are so excited about it that you want to share your joy with others, there is no need to “seduce” anyone. People who promote techniques in mind-control…need a new hobby as these techniques are ineffective (read “scams”).

May you find people who respect you so that you can learn how to reciprocate.

In his 1997 book The Gender Knot: Unraveling Our Patriarchal Legacy, sociologist Allan G. Johnson stated that accusations of man-hating have been used to put down feminists and shift attention onto men in a way that reinforces male-centered culture.[21] Johnson noted that the word misandry did not appear in dictionaries until recently[22] and that comparisons between misogyny and misandry are misguided because mainstream culture offers no comparable anti-male ideology. He says in his book that accusations of misandry work to discredit feminism because “people often confuse men as individuals with men as a dominant and privileged category of people.”[21] He wrote that given the “reality of women’s oppression, male privilege, and men’s enforcement of both, it’s hardly surprising that every woman should have moments where she resents or even hates ‘men’.”[21]

jadzia49 wrote “Johnson noted that the word misandry did not appear in dictionaries until recently”

This is because hatred and mistrust of men is socially-tolerated. Women and children are taught, primarily by women, to fear men, be it in the park or on a sidewalk. Misandry is normal to both men and women because of female supremacy.

from your Johnson wrote “t’s hardly surprising that every woman should have moments where she resents or even hates ‘men’.””

That’s sexual discrimination because it is directed at a class of people with no control over their membership. “Gender Studies” is very successful because women enjoy the freedom to hate men. Women’s Studies classes include the books of Lesbian Feminist Mary Daly, a female supremacist employed at Boston College for decades until she was forcefully retired for refusing admission of male students to her classes.

Since much of the postings refer to special privileges and rights afforted based on gender, I would like to offer a special consideration to women which would be appreciated by both genders. Because at least one study has determined that the approproiate ratio of female to male restrooms is four to one in favor of women, why hasn’t this simple fact been communicated to architects of public performance sites?

During intermission at an opera. concert or theatrrical preformance, the men end of talking to each other at intermission when they would far prefer to be discussing the perforance with their wives, fiancees or dates who are queued up to use a restroom. Men onky need to whip it out, let it empty shake it off and while washing their hands glance into the mirrow to be certain their tie is straight and there isn’t a piece of spinach from dinner stuck between their front teeth.

Women on the other hand have a major operation to get to their panties, and after washing their hands have to powder their noses, reapply lipstick, fix their eyelashes, adjust their hairdos, and do whatever is required to maintain their appearance. This is noone’s fault but is simply a matter of physiological and social requirements.

If someone out there called you a complete moro for whatever you believe, then you would probably label them as prejudice. Did you even take the time to read what all of us “morons” had to say, because a lot of the people here sound to me as someone very rational. My favorites are the feminists who are trying to smooth things over with the other sex, instead of instigating things and making them worse for everyone. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if it’s your opinion that we’re all morons for believing both sexes could live in peace and behave decently toward each other, then so be it. However, I’ll be busy working with people who actually want to resolve the problem of sexism, even if people like you are out there making it harder for us. Good day, and thanks for listening to what this “moron” had to say.

Fucking yes!!! Finally, somebody gets the shit they’re talking about! Even when women are portrayed as bitchy in films, they are still made to be respected, because of their insecurities. Males who suck, on the other hand, are just portrayed as shitheads for no reason! And I am sick of people saying stuff like “OMG, a man getting aroused by a sexy lady is sexist”, when there are plenty of girls who do the SAME FUCKING THING! For example, Directioners. 1D couldn’t sing for shit, and everyone likes them for their looks. OBJECTIFICATION, YOUR HONOUR! And the fact that men are always portrayed as “those heartless, shallow bastards” and women aren’t, though last I checked, women lead men on all the time! Now, I’m not sexist. I DON’T believe in treating women as sex objects, I DON’T believe in misogynistic jokes, I DON’T believe in rape, woman-beating, et cetera, and I DO believe in equal rights. I also know, however, that if someone was to find out that I was making this rant, I’d be in a heap of shit, but if it was about MEN, I’d be applauded. I also find it disturbing that stuff like the fact that Andy Warhol being shot by a radical feminist is blankly left out of our education. We are just told that he was shot, and when we ask why, we get no answer. Also, some stuff on radical feminist websites is also unsettling, such as “I believe in equal rights” followed, two paragraphs later by “Men are worthless scum, we don’t need them, they must respect me, we should enslave/murder them all!” (Yes, a slight hyperbole, but yeah) I agknowledge that there is still quite a bit of misogyny in modern society. Hell, look at that Gangsta Rap shit! And I’m fine with women protesting their rights, when need be. But still, there is a lot of stuff going on to do with male discrimination that gets ignored, and the people who bring it up are defamed and attacked. Oh well. Once again, I mean no disrespect to women at all! And sorry about the language. I just got a bit… excited, I guess.

Aww, thanks Donald, you have no idea how one good comment like yours can really make my day. (Espescially when I’m having a bad day like today.) Seriously though, I could really use some good news like yours, whether it’s just someone getting married, or someone excited about something, even if it’s not for me, just something to lift my spirits.

. In the past, women were not allowed equal rights of property ownership (patents are a form of intellectual property) and many women patented their inventions under their husband’s or father’s names. In the past, women were also prevented from receiving the higher education necessary for inventing. (Unfortunately, some countries in the world today still deny women equal rights and an equal education.)

In the past, nearly all men didn’t own property either. The same goes for higher education as it was the domain of the rich. That is, nearly all men and women did not receive a college degree. But today, with 60% of college degrees earned by women and full access, both social and financial, women flock to fields of study with little potential for invention. Gender studies, while fictional, doesn’t qualify as a useful invention because it is only a method of viewing society.

Why don’t you have an STEM degree ? I do. Oh, that’s for OTHER women.

Nearly all inventions of the past were contributed by men with little formal education and certainly without a college degree. Even black men in the US were able to invent a new form of music named Jazz. Though played on instruments designed by others, black men were able to do this with fewer legal rights. Yes, some women participated and contributed.

I’m all for equality in it’s most basic, simple definition. But I can’t see that happening with the way things are today. Not with women able to just scream “He raped me” and break-down in a court case, and win. Not with TV brain-washing us that men are fat, stupid, lazy, no-good woman-bashers.

If Feminism was aiming for equality with all their man-hating, I think you guys overshot. You overshot hard.

The phrase “Give them an inch, and they take a mile” comes to mind, but just doesn’t quite say it.

Great website. I live in Australia and feminism and man-hatred has become rampant here in recent years. We have a misandrist as a Prime Minister, who hates men and has an emasculated unemployed hairdresser house husband as her live-in “boyfriend”. She has been a total failure in the job, racking up record debt and policy failures galore, but anytime a male points out her failures she calls them a “misoygnist”!! She also constantly says the Opposition Leader, a decent family man, is a “misoygnist’ and “has a problem with strong women”, how ludicrous given she is clearly a misandrist who has a problem with strong men! (refer to previous boyfriend!).She plays the gender card every week without fail, clearly to try and divert attention from her abject failures. However, most women in their 20s and 30s in Australia these days are militant feminist and admire this horrible woman! Unbelievable!

Misandry is never an appropriate reaction to misogyny, especially when it’s only a few men who are actually misogynous and the misandry that results is against ALL men. When you react to misogyny with misandry, you send out the message that it’s OK to be sexist, which makes the misogyny you’re reacting to seem OK. Whenever I hear women say things like “men are pigs” I wonder why I should ever refrain from being sexist myself if you’re going to just turn around and be sexist against men?

The problem is that misandry has been made politically correct by feminist extremist. Misogyny has been declared a social disease and has been expanded to include any thoughts, speech, or actions that do not support the extreme feminist misandristic agenda. Women have been given every advantage in their contract with men and they still want more.

Ivan, using abusive terms like “feminatzis” does not contribute to a rational reasoned approach to the subject of misandry. Please leave that kind of ad hominem attack to idiots like Ruch Limbaugh. Misandry is a severe societal problem and needs to be addressed in a rational manner.

Unfortunately men can also be misandristic and buy into the self-hatred they are bombarded with. When I had an abusive urological examination it was a woman friom my insurance provider who first recognized the problem and the damage I had suffered and encouraged me to file a complaint.. The woman who accepted my complaint realized that I had been harmed and needed to made whole and provided me with psychologiccal counseling from a man who immediately recognized the problem and the damage I incured and spent months making me whole again. Many men, on the other hand, made stupid remards about manning up, I should lie back and enjoy, and other and other ignorant and destuctive reacions. We have to overcome the effects of extremists of all stripes, in this case both misdandrists and mysognonists.

The large amount of sexist and mis-leading advertising currently being shown on television which is derogative and degrading towards men and portrays women as being more intelligent and “worth it” is absolutely evil; extremely arrogant and is the root cause of many of the problems we are all now encountering in modern society.

Advertisers are unwittingly(?) doing an incalculable amount of damage to the younger generations of today by wrongly portraying men as being less intelligent than, or easily-manipulated by women, as a means of selling a product or service, because this incorrect portrayal of men and women is teaching the wrong spiritual; role-model and moral standards to the young generations of today.

Young boys are being taught that girls are more intelligent and more “in control” than boys are, and girls are being taught that everyone should be running around after them and worshipping them instead of God, because television advertising is portraying girls/women as being “sex-goddesses” to be worshipped by boys/men and is constantly telling women that “they’re worth it” and that men are worthless.

This degradation of the Spiritual strength and masculinity of men is the root-cause of many of the social problems that both men and women are currently facing in modern society, such as the increasing number of men suffering from depression; committing suicide or turning to homosexuality and the increasing number of women taking up and becoming addicted to smoking, drinking and other stress relieving drugs, in order to try to cope with modern day life.

Because of this constant degradation of the man’s status as being the strong Spiritual leader (which does not mean beating your wife, or anyone else for that matter), it is becoming increasingly more difficult to be a real man in modern society. Consequently many men find that they can’t fulfill what they feel to be, and God says is, their role in society. Because of this false propaganda and laws that take away and give custody of men’s children to women, men become depressed, some committing suicide and others try to turn to doing the role of women in society and become what God condemns as an abomination to Him – homosexuals.

On the other side of the same coin we have women trying to take over and fulfill the man’s role in society, which women are not spiritually equipped to do because they are affected more easily than men by emotions and mood-swings caused by the greater amount of hormones in their blood-stream controlling the various cycles of the female body, which enables Satan to manipulate them and their thoughts more easily than he can do with a man. That is part of why Eve (woman) gave in to the serpent (Satan) and was then commanded by God to allow Adam (man) to rule over her (woman) and thereby help to prevent Satan from succeeding in having his will done on Earth, instead of God’s Will being done. Because of the role-reversal, most women who are in positions of authority suffer from excessive stress and turn to smoking, drink or other drugs to cope, and consequently enter the downward spiral of drug dependency and depression, ultimately leading to their own self-destruction. For a full explanation of this, please study “The Way home or face The Fire”.

In The Bible (which is the only thing in this world of ours that still makes perfect sense) we are told that God created man, first, and that, as an after-thought, He made woman from out of the flesh of man, to be a ‘help-mate’ for and to obey man, whom she (woman) should cleave unto in marriage, bearing his children and they would become ‘one flesh’ or one family unit (Genesis 2:20-24; 3:16-17). With God as the “Divine Navigator” and the man as the “captain” of the “Ship” (family unit) and each “Ship” with a faithful and obedient “crew” (wife and children), any problems the “Ship” (family unit) may encounter would be easily surmounted by means of the “captain” passing on the correct advice, which he obtains less-hindered by emotions and mood-swings, from “The Divine Navigator” (God) and the “crew” (wife and children) would faith-fully carry out orders to ensure plain-sailing through life’s problems and create a stable environment in which to bring children into the world.

All of The Bible Prophets were men and all of JEsus’ DIciples (the JE/DI) were also men, so why are and who is making the advertising companies produce adverts which deliberately put across the message that women are or should be the dominant sex? This advertising message goes totally against and is the opposite of The Word of God (The ultimate Truth and Reality of who we really are and why we are really here) and is plainly and obviously destroying BOTH men and women in modern society. So the answer to, who is making them do this, is obvious – Satan the Opposer and Destroyer is making them do this.

I feel that this issue should at least be looked into by the Broadcasting Standards Commission and other similar bodies, which are set-up to handle these sorts of issues, because until the “experts” (so-called) begin to see what is really happening in society and why; the advertisements on television which are undermining men’s masculinity will continue to cause incalculable damage to the impressionable minds of our young people, who are being shown the wrong values in life. Consequently our young people are growing up mal-adjusted and will be unable to find true happiness in later life because they will be unable to find and fulfill their true role or life purpose in society.

I sincerely hope that the “experts” see the truth and validity of God’s advice, instead of their own and that of other so-called experts and the social problems which are occurring due to mis-leading television advertising and programmes. I also hope that something can be done to put a stop to the sexist and mis-leading messages that are being portrayed in the adverts and programmes that our young people are being shown on television and are led to believe are true-to-life and normal human behaviour.

If anyone reading this article can see ways that they can help to put a stop to this ever-increasing problem in society, please contact us so we can work together to make the change for the better, before too many of our young people are mis-guided into believing that the wrong values which are being taught through television advertising and programmes are the correct values for them to live their lives by and are deceived into accepting these wrong moral values as normality and destroy their own lives and the lives of others through doing so. jahtruth.net/men.htm

I’m an atheist, so all the religious stuff is meaningless to me. However, good & evil, which are not mutually exclusive, need no supernatural personifications. They exist anyhow. Misandry is getting worse & many women seem to refuse to acknowledge the damage that’s being done to men. Role reversal has really gone way out of control. Many women want it both ways–to be ultra-ultimate-feminine &, at the same time, to be capable of anything men are. This has been causing serious societal problems.

I can understand your frustration with feminism. I had a long period in which I was only able to see the misandrists among them. we have to recognize that misogeny exists as much (and speaking in terms of economical and political statistics, probably more) as misandry, and a political force must exist to fight that. Feminism was meant to be that force, though misandrists have tainted it the same way misogynists exist among the webpages of this site. I wonder, why do two movements fighting against gender discrimination have to oppose one another? perhaps it’s a liguistic thing, and we need to remove the gender connotations from MEN’S RIGHTS ACTIVIST and FEMINIST, thus allowing them to unite…

Thiis is way beyond a linguistic problem. The cultures which produced the Chinese and Turkish languages, e.g., do not find it necessary to have different pronouns for he, she, and it, none the less they have gender problems. The elimination of gender is part of the problem. Feminists want to erase every gender specific aspect of the language and the entire society…I refuse to accept the premise that men must disappear to satisfy feminists. Men and women are different in more ways than their genitals and feminists just need to get over it and accept this fact. Instead of trying to erase or ignore gender differences, men and women need to learn to live in mutual respect for their differneces and appreciate the yang and yin characteristics which make the whole greater than its two parts. The current societal effort to enforce misandry as a remedy for all female problems is destructive and futile. We are producing a generation of males who are taught that being male is a pernicious disease. If woem think men will accept subjugation by women and emasculation, they are going to be very disappointed. When their goal is empowerment over men there will be a counter-reaction and rejection of this female supremacy agenda.

When women stop believing in the myth that their brains are superior to men and recognize that it is men who have made civilization and technology possible, they can deal with their problems rather than creating a myth of female superiority against all logic and reason.

If men have made civilization and technology possible, it is because they have historically been able to access education and have been encouraged to follow such pursuits while women have been historically penned into believing that caring for the kids and the house is their only purpose. Pigs like you are why I am a feminist- and if me stripping you of your male privilege to institute equality makes you upset, ask me if I give two shits. Answer? I don’t.

Working more years while living fewer years?
Sustaining nearly 100% of workplace death and injuries?
Earning most of the money while women have the majority of spending power?
Paying the bulk of taxes while women receive the bulk of services?
Having little control over reproduction ?
Fewer legal rights in divorce and family?
No legal protection against child genital mutilation?

Feminism is a female supremacist philosophy with the goal of socioeconomic and reproductive superiority of women over men.

A fundamental goal of Feminism was the de-normalization and desctruction of the heterosexual married family. What’s the score today?

Ian actually had no idea what feminism is and only wants to accuse feminists of being the reason for all the bad in the world. He refuses to acknowledge that men had 100% of workplace accidents because THEY prevented women from entering the workforce (even though his statistic is COMPLETELY wrong). He refuses to acknowledge that men made all the money because they prevented women from making money. He refuses to acknowledge that feminists have been leaders in anti-circumcision campaigns, that feminists want equal rights for fathers and mothers, equal pay for equal work, etc. So, it’s best to ignore Ian until he starts having a conversation WITH people instead of AT them.

I carefully wrote “nearly 100%”. A number of sources provide estimates , but all are 91% or greater.

That women and men do not have equal injuries and deaths in the workplace is not a surprise. In the US, the female participation in the workplace is ~75%. Due to fewer women working outside of the house overall, if men and women were injured and killed on the job at the same rate per sex, more men would still be injured and killed.

Men do the dirty, dangerous and hard manual labor. If companies could hire women to do the same work for 0.5% less (lower pay is a hiring advantage), all of this dangerous work would be performed by women.

Do I remember a conversation in which you emphatically-stated that nurses and doctors should receive the same pay?

Feminists argue “equal value of work per sex”, meaning that women should be paid the same amount of money to do work with job attributes that women prefer as men taht perform the jobs with more negative attributes (full/extended work week, irregular/night/weekend hours, longer commutes, travel/relocation, physical labor, outdoors, etc.)

The US Bureau of Labor statistics logs that :
bls.gov/cps/cpsaat22.htm

1) Married men work more 10% hours in full-time jobs than married women.

2) Married men work 3% more hours than never-married women.

—-> Never-married women work more hours than married women.

Is the Feminist beef about the gender wage gap also with never-married women?

I think misandry is good for mankind, because the only part of mankind that is really pure and clean is women. Though I’m a man myself, I believe men are filthy bastards, wolverine rapists. Tread on men and the world will be a better place. Feminism is the way to go. Men are culpable for most offences, but women not nearly. It is very often men who come on strong, not women. I think it is plain that men are a bane to society.

Another cute Jezebel article written by Feminists for Feminists arguing the superior Feminist position that they understand both men’s and women’s socioeconomic issues better than men do. Feminists don’t hate all men : it just sounds like they do.

You absolutely are a woman-hating troll. You don’t actually read anything anyone says and you have no interest in having a discussion about anything. You are just here to inflame, to insult, and to criticize. And you can’t understand WHY there are misandrists in the world?!? Look at your behavior. THAT is what women hate. And most men hate that too because you make them look like idiots.

I read the Jezebel article when it first appeared. Its crux is that misandry (fear, hatred or distrust of men as a group) doesn’t exist, but if it does, it’s caused by men and not Feminists.

Feminists believe that job positions should be held open for women in order to increase the number of women working in a group with a male majority while never holding job positions open to increase the number of men working in a group with a female majority.

Feminists believe that when equally-qualified male and female job applicants are present, the job should be given to the female. Every time.

Feminists believe that women should be paid the same amount as a man for a job even though women as a group cost an employer more by taking more sick days, paid and unpaid leave and working fewer hours.

All of the above are examples of “sex-positive” discrimination in the workplace.

You are having difficult distinguishing between feminism and man-hating. Feminists don’t hate men. Feminists do not hurt men and boys. Feminism does not hurt men and boys. Treating women with respect, treating them as equals in every way, and valuing them equally for what they do does not hurt men and boys no matter how much you want to convince people of that. Your goal is the same goal as other “men’s rights” activists and that is to convince people that feminism is evil so that anything feminists work for will be rejected by society.

You know what else feminists aren’t? We’re not stupid. We see right through your anti-woman bullshit. We can see right through your “I’m just fighting for male equality” nonsense. We know what you’re up to. You’re not that clever.

Again, you’re making up your own BS definitions and presenting them as fact. I can only hope that men are smart enough to know you’re full of shit and to learn what feminism actually is for themselves instead of listening to radicals like you who only want to stir up hatred and fear.

And now you’re just regurgitating the same ol’ tripe you’ve been spewing for about a year now. Not going to bother with you anymore Ian. I’m just going to hope and pray that no one is dumb enough to believe your made up statistics, your BS definitions of feminism, and your phony examples of how this world so horribly mistreats men and boys.

Oh dear. You’re back to the statistics. Do those statistics also show what percentage of the time women pick up sick children from school? Or what percentage of the time women have to stay home with sick children? Do those statistics also look at how many women are denied full time jobs in favor of men?? You like to be a stickler for the “facts” when they suit your argument, but you certainly don’t want to hear ANYTHING about why those numbers are the way they are. Your argument is that lazy greedy women want to be paid the same as those valiant, hard-working men for doing less work. Again, your phony baloney is getting old.

Feminism: establishing political, social, and economic equality and rights for women. That’s it. If you feel that political, social, and economic equality for women is a disadvantage for men and boys, too bad. That’s feminism and your ideas are misogyny.

So what you’re really saying is… when men are favored over women, that’s okay. When men are paid more just because they’re men, that’s just the way things are. But if women expect to be paid the same for the same work, expect men to contribute equally to family obligations (leaving work to pick up kids, staying home and using sick days when kids are sick, not putting in overtime because Johnny has soccer practice, etc), and expect to be hired at the same rate as men, somehow that’s favoritism? Men are entitled to the full time jobs, the benefits, the better raises, the higher salaries, even though the only reason women lag behind is because men prevented women from holding those positions to begin with. Quit your goddamn crying about how unfair life is for men. Men have had favored status for centuries. Leveling the playing field is not giving preferential treatment to women. If you don’t like that women are now catching up and that men now actually have to compete with women, too bad. Gender shouldn’t have been used BY MEN as a means to discriminate against women in the first place.

Women have always worked in and outside the home just as men have always worked inside and outside of the home. Women have and continue to find it more efficient to trade feminine labor (sex, maternal and child services) for male labor. In the age when women earn more college degrees, a good man is still one that earns at least 20% more.

Never-married (used to imply childless) women earn more than married (used to imply children) women. It’s ludicrous to suggest that men keep women from choosing jobs with attributes that draw more pay.

When male technological innovation brought about the factory and the office, women grew an interest in doing these safer jobs. Feminism had nothing to do with getting women into the full-time work place. Male invention did.

Men are simply more inventive and productive in the workplace due to body and brain differences. It’s hard to compete in the workplace with men, even for other men. That’s competition, not sexual discrimination.

Quit your goddam crying about how unfair life is to women. As it’s said, those with privilege are unable to recognize it.

The difference is… the inequality against women is real. Well documented. Proven, Repeated and beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You’re a moron. Men get better jobs and are more inventive because they have better brains than women? I think you’re proving conclusively that your ‘fact’ just. isn’t. true. LMAO. I’m done with you. Stop responding.

On second thought, go ahead and respond. Because you know what? You’re right. There is a conspiracy here. Women (feminists) have been conspiring against men to take away their parental rights, to force them into wage subservience, and to take away their self-esteem. We are out to destroy you, destroy your institutions, and make you slaves to us. I even have a special apron picked out JUST FOR YOU.

And you know what? THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. We’re winning. We are tearing you down, destroying your culture bit by bit. We are evil, eeeeeeeeeeeevil bitches out to destroy men and menkind.

Who has the more inventive, productive brain now? Men are so much smarter than women and so much better at the complex thinking, yet we’re totally kicking your ass in this war of the sexes? You guys suck. More intelligent? I think not.

Documented inequality? What? A woman’s equal is a man that makes 20% more. Where are all the good men ?

US BLS documentation simply shows that women have a much lower rate of participation in the workplace, and those women that do work full-time clock 10% fewer hours.

Women are in the middle while men are at the top and bottom. Though, notice for every man at the top, there is a woman that lives with him that typically had nothing to do with his professional success.

Intellect doesn’t seem to offer an significant survival advantage for men. It’s much harder to compete for money to buy access to wet pleasures than it is to trade access to wet pleasures for money. What do I get for getting a car’s oil light to turn off?

I’ll mark the point at which women are satisfied with their workplace advantage when they start complaining about how the child-free woman next to them has a higher salary.

Sign. The end of men is here. Oh, wait. Here comes the artificial womb.

As for you Donald, I actually feel sorry for you because it seems like some traumatic experiences in your life have led you to believe that feminists are your enemy and they are out to get you. And it’s not true. And it’s sad that you believe it. Someone lied to you about who feminists are and what they want, and you must’ve believed them because of something someone did to you.

You are so correct. Men should never play a role in their own destruction. We must stand up to these feminists who are hell bent on destroying civilization .and establishing a female plutocracy with men subservient to them.

For Christ’s sake Donald. Why the HELL would feminists want to destroy civilization? As if we don’t have enough to clean up already, now we need to clean up a destroyed world? And honestly, where were you when men established a male dominated society and made women subservient to them? OH! I see. It’s okay if YOUR sex controls MY sex, but if it’s the other way around, we might have to say something about it.

Donald’s experiences with discrimination against men in favor of women is typical for the American male. Discrimination against men and boys (AKA Positive Discrimination) is a fundamental of Feminism to combat perceived discrimination against women with actual discrimination against men.

How many men working in male-dominated fields see qualified male job candidates put on hold or rejected only to have a junior/less-qualified woman hired without going through the complete interview process?

If there are two intern slots, 50 male applicants and 10 female applicants, is it fair to men to always hire one male and one female intern?

Someone looked at the nearly all-male staff and thought “Hmmm. There are too many dudes in the office. We need a women in here.”

None. Zero. Not one more-qualified man lost a job opportunity to a less qualified woman. Ever. Now, if you have EVIDENCE to the contrary (and by evidence, I mean an actual study done by a reputable source that shows conclusively that a man/men lost a job opportunity to a less qualified woman because she was a woman, not some bullshit “study” of some guy you know of in some building somewhere) then I’ll consider taking back my statement. But until then, no man has ever lost a job to a less qualified woman because she was being favored because she was a woman. So, I’ll wait for your evidence, but judging from all of your other “facts” and “statistics” I won’t be holding my breath.

Or, you could act like decent human beings, treat women, children, minorities, the elderly, the poor, the sick, animals, etc with dignity and respect they deserve instead of acting like all of those people and things are your property, yours to do with as you please, as men have done for centuries. How about being a part of the world and community around you, instead of trying to dominate it? Hmmm?

Feminist benevolence nonsense. Women aren’t paying for the care of women, children, the poor, the sick and animal care. Men provided medical technology. Child-bearing was a life-threatening ordeal that was improved only when male-driven technological progress entered the scene that was dominated by female mysticism.

Poverty is the natural animal and thus human condition. Male ingenuity lifted humans out of poverty. Women were there to benefit and criticize.

Would you be willing to give up every male technological contribution to return to the old way of plucking termites from the mound for lunch?

Excuse me while I correct another bullshit assumption based on nothing but your own hatred of women…

Child bearing was NOT a life-threatening ordeal that was improved when male driven technology entered the picture. Women had been assisting in births since the BEGINNING OF TIME. Men made child birth more DANGEROUS by using equipment not needed for child birthing Midwives were SAFER than “male driven technologies” that used forceps, induced labor, and unnecessary C Sections to do something that women had been doing naturally for thousands of years. Again your problem is you don’t like looking at those pesky facts. History and science have proved repeatedly that midwives have as high (and in some cases, HIGHER) survival rates than this “male centered” bullshit attempt to overthrow women and make a profit from child birth. Don’t even try it. I’ve studied midwifery for years. I’ve seen the data. You seem to think child birth killed half of the women and children. Total bullshit. Another made up statistic.

Let’s be honest here, fellas. You’re not pissed because there is a systematic discrimination against men, because there isn’t actually a systematic discrimination against men. You’re pissed that men have lost their special privileges. Now they have to compete fairly with women and minorities in the workplace, they can no longer be dictators of their families, they can no longer exploit women, children, minorities, the environment, animals, etc for their own personal benefit without being challenged…. Men can’t just use and abuse the world any time they want anymore. They are being challenged, they are being told no, they are being forced to pay back what they’ve taken, they’re being forced to make amends. And you hate it. You hate losing your privilege. Be honest. If men hadn’t used race and gender as a justification for discriminating against others for their own personal gain, you wouldn’t be in this situation of crying about not getting special privileges anymore.

Nonsense. Be honest that in order for women to compete with men in the workplace, women need sex-positive discrimination programs in order to compete with the scourge of hard-working men. There is nothing fair about male-only discrimination in hiring and higher education. Do an Internet search for “scholarships for women” followed by “scholarships for men”? Why do women need more scholarships?

If women were responsible for hard manual labor, technological innovation and earning the bulk of money while having a minority spending power, you would cry oppression.

I’m sick of the race crap. Men of white, mongoloid (old term for Asian) and black races dominate women. This is only because women are able to trade sex and maternal services for male labor. Apparently, men of every race are able to out-work women.

The real question is : why are men able to found and build large companies of nearly 100% male workers while women are not able to do so?

The real question is: how did these loser women who only have sex to trade for sustenance, and clearly inferior brains, outsmart you obviously superior men so that we get paid the same as you for all of YOUR hard work?

Jodi wrote “None. Zero. Not one more-qualified man lost a job opportunity to a less qualified woman”

You’re writing fluff because you have no idea. I see this every year at the handful of Fortune500 corporations I’ve worked for and notice the same pattern at even more that I visit in professional relations.

Corporations have sex-positive (discrimination only against men) policies to keep positions in male-populated departments open for women. The female applicants are exempted from grueling peer staff interviews. These women have fewer degrees from lesser universities and fewer years of experience. Granted, these departments have 30+ men, and it’s impossible to hire women without massive discrimination against male applicants.

How it is fair for departments to have a nearly 50/50 sex ratio of interns when nearly every resume submitted is from a male applicant? Here’s the procedure to fill two positions : First, inspect the collection of resumes for a female applicant and hire her. Then, hire only the best-qualified male and reject the rest, even when they are all better than the woman.

I am seriously laughing my ass off here. YOU are the source of this information?? From your “observations”??? Yeah, that’s totally not biased in your favor. Here’s a general rule: when you are making an assertion as idiotic as that, you need a source other than YOURSELF to give the claim credibility. But I knew you didn’t actually HAVE any sources. It’s just you spewing your misogyny again. I’m sure you inspected EVERY resume of all of these Fortune 500 companies you’ve worked for an did a thorough study.Get back to me when you have actual evidence backed up by reputable sources.

I don’t need a source! YOU made the positive claim that this happens, therefore the burden of proof is on YOU. I don’t have to prove a negative, YOU have to prove your claims. All I said was you were wrong. Unless you provide evidence to show you’re right. Nice try though. Well, not really. It was a shameful attempt…

Through their insistence on using metal tools, unnecessary surgeries and other unnecessary practices. the male dominated medical profession has added nothing to the event of child birth other than profits. There was no need for forceps, inducements, etc. Remember thalidomide? No? I’ll refresh your memory. It was a drug introduced by male doctors to women for morning sickness that caused birth defects.

In case you aren’t aware of how male invention improved the birthing process over a group of women in a hut, here is a short list of male-inventions that improved the birthing process and women’s reproductive health.

And what I mean by that is give birth. Now, granted, I gave birth in a hospital because I didn’t know I could use a midwife. As far as I knew they were illegal. But there was nothing in my pregnancy or child birth that I needed to pay $25,000 for that I couldn’t have gone to a midwife for and saved an enormous amount of money. Because that’s what this is about. Money.

There have been some regrettable mistakes in health care such as the example of the limbless children as a result of a medication developed to ease the suffering of women in pregnancy. But overall, I doubt you’ll give up going to a doctor or a hospital or recommend those around you from seeking medical attention.

That wasn’t the point of the argument Ian. YOU said that men have made woman’s lives better and used child birth as an example. Child birth in hospitals with doctors and equipment isn’t exactly better than doing it the natural way and in many ways it is worse than doing it the natural way. YOU are the one insisting that only men have made advances in human history, but those advances in many cases aren’t even necessary. the only advance it made was allowing men to make a profit from something women already did.

Oh these poor women can only be prostitutes. They want to take men’s jobs they can’t do, like in construction where they stand around holding flags while men do the real work. Or, they must be managers over men, supervising jobs they have never done and couldn’t do if their lives depended on it. As firefighters, when our lives do depend on qualified people on the job, the standards for lifting had to lowered to qualify women for these jobs. While the population is getting more obese, the pc standards allow women to hold a job where they can’t drag most women out of a burning building, let alone an adult. I guess we just have to die of asphyxiation or burn to death if there is no man around to do the job. We can’t wait until the first female submariners return from duty and file sexual harassment charges because some lonely sailor was looking at a girlie magazine, or, God forbid, a man’s genitals were exposed in the close quarters of a submarine. I worked with a group of highly skilled engineers and we knew we needed master’s degree in a relevant field of engineering to become the manager: however, a female with an associate degree in management and a background in word processing, was suddenly found qualified for manager’s position in spite of a whole staff of men who met the qualifications. This feminist thing is destroying this nation.

Right. Your disgusting misogyny, your blatant vile hatred of women isn’t destroying this nation. It’s feminism. Your rant is so full of bullshit, I don’t feel sorry for you anymore. I feel sorry for any woman to has to associate with you.

Perhaps that woman got the job over you because you’re an asshole. Ever think of that?

Jodi wrote “Perhaps that woman got the job over you because you’re an asshole. ”

I’ve never been in a position where female candidates are even close to competing directly.

When the lesser-qualified women were hired over dozens of male applicants, were all of the male applicants assholes?

Was each and every one of the 100+ male college students that were rejected to make way for the 50/50 sex balance in summer interns an asshole?

In order to combat perceived discrimination against women in male-dominated industries, corporations engage in actual discrimination against men. But only large corporations can afford this. That is why the founders of nearly every startup is male.

Facebook should have been a female invention because women claim to be superior communicators, smarter than men, and diversity is crucial to the success of a business. Alas, Facebook wasn’t conceived or developed by a woman.

Okay, I’m done with this conversation now. Your insistence that you can say whatever comes to your little mind and blurt out whatever anti-female rhetoric without backing up your “facts” with evidence is just ridiculous and tiresome.

You didn’t pay $25k twenty years ago, right? The price of a current delivery which varies from $10k to $25k , depending on the hospital and the region. It may be reduced by avoiding the use of an anesthesiologist and intravenous pain-relief.

$25k twenty years ago? Whew. I remember a number of friends shocked at their $10k health insurance totals in the 90s. Anyway, you’re right. The cost of birth (and all healthcare) is too high. Alternate means are sprouting up to compete with inflated hospital bills, though there is no financial motivation for the fully-insured to pay much more only to use services outside of the system.

I wouldn’t call it a conspiracy against women and simply call it a well-intentioned medical practice that was proven catastrophic due to the lack of testing on human subjects. And parents still do stupid stuff like cut off parts of infant penises.

Here is the US Code against cutting off any part of a girl’s genitals, including any part of her foreskin, without immediate medical necessity.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b), whoever knowingly circumcises, excises, or infibulates the whole or any part of the labia majora or labia minora or clitoris of another person who has not attained the age of 18 years shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(b) A surgical operation is not a violation of this section if the operation is—
(1) necessary to the health of the person on whom it is performed, and is performed by a person licensed in the place of its performance as a medical practitioner; or
(2) performed on a person in labor or who has just given birth and is performed for medical purposes connected with that labor or birth by a person licensed in the place it is performed as a medical practitioner, midwife, or person in training to become such a practitioner or midwife.
(c) In applying subsection (b)(1), no account shall be taken of the effect on the person on whom the operation is to be performed of any belief on the part of that person, or any other person, that the operation is required as a matter of custom or ritual.

Well feminists aren’t going anywhere. And I like how you assume that if a woman gets a job that a man is qualified for, she must have stolen it from him. Your misogyny is SCREAMING loud and clear just in the idea that you think men are entitled to these jobs but if women get them they must have bypassed perfectly good men. Men like you are the reason why feminists have become so strong. Because women are tired of taking shit from guys like you. Don’t like it? Too bad.

Jodi, in your claim that you didn’t use any male-invented medical technology during your pregnancy, did you not :

1) use a pregnancy test
2) take a prenatal blood test
3) use heart rate monitors or blood pressure sleeves
4) use an ultrasound machine
5) use chemical pain relief of any kind before or after pregnancy
6) read literature about pregnancy involving medical research performed by men
7) view pictures of anatomy
8) use a mid-wife that was trained in medical practice invented by men

All things that I didn’t need to get through my pregnancy. If I had known better then, I wouldn’t have done it. YOU’VE GOT TO BE THE DUMBEST PERSON I’VE EVER SPOKEN TO ONLINE. MEN DID NOT INVENT MIDWIFERY OR PRACTICES IN CHILD BIRTH. HOW CAN YOU BE THAT DENSE?

Women are allowed to skip any preparation for a position and jump to the executive level with no qualifications. Every minority had to meet or exceed qualifications, but not women. Your point is well taken on the difference between large corporations and the small entrepreneur. I fear for the future of our nation when the only war the armed forces are prepared to wage is responding to female whining.

I’d ask you for evidence of that, but I”m sure your evidence is just as good as Ian’s, meaning it’s not actually evidence but just your own misogynistic “observations” of how unfair it is that women get jobs too. And honestly, the only whining being done that I’ve seen is by you and Ian about how unfair it is that men don’t have an advantage anymore.

Now find any protection for baby boys against male genital mutilation. The so-called medical explanations are pure nonsense. Smegma occurs in dirty females between the clitoris and the labia minora, as it does in males who do not observe hygenic practices. How many of us males have contracted STDs from females?

You have absolutely refused to read or consider any comments I’ve posted in the last year about how feminists do not support circumcision, but you insist it is their fault. You can blame MALE doctors for circumcision.

Jodi wrote “YOU are the one insisting that only men have made advances in human history, but those advances in many cases aren’t even necessary.”

Nonetheless, the medical services to improve the odds of successful delivery, particularly the 1% of infants born that do need hospital-grade care. Modern parents want to pay to have a nearly perfect delivery in an age when most women deliver 1-2 babies, and a growing class of women that deliver 0.

Since you said you studied about midwives, do midwives today in the US insist on seeing a prenatal ultrasound to determine the possibility of a breach birth?

How many parents will refuse a hearing or vision test for their infant or toddler? In the grand days of the Magnificant Matriarchy, neonatal hearing tests weren’t needed because remedies such as hearing aids and cochlear surgery didn’t exist, either.

Now, if only DNA paternity tests were included in the postnatal blood tests. Even today, women are able to get away with lying to one man that he is the biological father, and as a result of that lie, he will dedicate his lifetime earnings and effort into supporting the mother of his supposed-child. Now, that’s female power.

You are asking me to prove a negative. The evidence is all around that women have preferences to fulfill hiring goals….Every major corporation is under pressure to have women as CEOs and executives without regard to qualifications. Every organization has had to pick secretaries, word processors from the typing pool, and any other women they can find, and make them supervisors and managers..

The EEOC is sitting on a report that women and white men over 40 years old have been the real beneficiaries of civil rights employment laws and regulations. Unemployment rates for men have peaked while women have been selected over men. The only jobs where men can compete with the preference given to women are the jobs women do not want or cannot compete in, such as construction and jobs requiring real work and physical labor.

Job qualifications have been watered down or ignored so women can be hired and promoted.. The military has been so so diluted to promote women that any woman can be promoted over any man with greater qualifications. Men have waited for promotions to positions they prepared for, to see women with little or no qualifications fill these positions. These are facts.

Who is asking you to prove a negative? I’ve only asked that you backup your claims with evidence, which neither you nor Ian can or are willing to do. “The evidence is all around” is a bullshit argument. if there is evidence “all around” that women are being hired though they are unqualified, then you should have NO PROBLEM providing evidence of it. But you can’t. Unless you’re going to back up your claims with proof, then you shouldn’t be making them. And so why is it you think you are better qualified than a woman for any job? You can’t even figure out how to support your arguments with the slightest amount of evidence. Smarter sex? More qualified for the best paying jobs? I don’t think so.

Again, maybe you wouldn’t have so much trouble losing your jobs to women if you guys weren’t such assholes. I’ve figure out your employment problems and it has nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with your self-righteous, self-entitled “hand me the world because I’m a man” attitude. YOU think you are entitled to these jobs and if women get them, there must be preferential hiring. It couldn’t be possible that YOU aren’t qualified for that job, it must be just because she’s a woman that she beat you. Suck it up The women are getting those jobs because they bring things to those jobs that you don’t. Like… a decent personality.

Male genital mutilation extends beyond religious minorities and this unnecessary surgery has been forced on the entire population. It is maney maker the way tonsillectomies, and flavor of the month medical money makers, such as restless leg syndrome carpal tunnel syndrome, etc., have added to the profits of the medical industrial complex.,

This unnecessary surgery has been forced on boys BY MALE DOCTORS. TAKE IT UP WITH THEM. MEN LEAD THE FREAKING MEDICAL FIELD. THEY ARE THE ONES CUTTING YOU, NOT THE FEMINISTS. MALE DOCTORS ARE THE ONES WHO INSTITUTED GENITAL MUTILATION. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

You know what, it is not my job to reeducate you, especially since it is clear that you are not interested in being factually correct or even promoting a logical argument. You just want to spew spew spew your hate. You do that. Keep spewing your hate because it is pretty clear it hasn’t gotten you anywhere in life. Keep blaming others, keep up the conspiracy theories, keep whining about women and feminists ruining your life. It’s so productive. Maybe if you whine some more, you’ll magically get to take “your” jobs back from women who earned their positions. But probably not.

I never blamed Feminists for initiating or perpetrating the mass circumcision campaign, though Feminists typically downplay male-only circumcision as insignificant during discussion of female genital mutilation.

Mothers provide the gating signature for approving circumcision and 1/3 of US mothers continue to approve penis-cutting. If a mother does not sign the circumcision consent form for her son, the boy’s genital will not be cut.

Leaders of penis-cult religions. Anyone in the US that feels they are entitled to suck the blood from an infant’s penis should be jailed immediately.

Both men and women employed in hospitals continue to promote infant penis-cutting in hospitals. Mothers (including my mother and all of her friends) of children born the 1960s-1980s thought circumcision was trendy and readily accepted the procedure despite being married to uncircumcised men. In those days, the consent of the father was not required.

Some Feminists are against male circumcision. With a 33% US circumcision rate, you know a lot of Feminist mothers also insist on circumcision. Go to parenting web sites such as cafemom or even small Facebook pages such as Feminist Breeder and learn that self-identified Feminists are split on circumcision.

Circumcision is the point at which US boys begin life with fewer legal protections against bodily mutilation than US girls. Only the penis is exempt from child mutilation laws.

I’m all for social change for men and women and treating men and women fairly. Let’s start treating men fairly. Social equality shouldn’t be dominated by anti-family, anti-equality, pro-woman, can-men Feminism.

Donald, I highly recommend viewing the Youtube manwomanmyth series while it is available. Feminists are flagging such discussions of Feminism in an effort to censor any discussion of men’s social issues and legal rights.

Yes, I am from just before that period and circumcision for false medical reasons had already begun. It was in vogue as were unnecessary tonsillectomies. Ignoring the fact that any surgery is risky, male genital mutilation is again in vogue. These vultures even want to export it to non-Muslim Africa. It is a sure fire money cash cow at $500 a snip and thousands of dollars in corrective procedures for botched circumcisions, some of which cannot be corrected.

Agreed. The additional profit from a male birth is still the primary motivation for circumcision. I’d rather see a mandatory DNA paternity test added. Mandatory (that’s right, no option) DNA paternity testing for birth certification would help low income couples/families the most by strengthening father/child bonds in question while eliminating paternity fraud. Modern technology provides fathers the right to be paired with children that are confirmed to be their own.

Equality is not the goal. Female hegemony is the goal and vengeance for all real and imagined abuse of women by men. All men are considered guilty and must pay the price. The world must be be one in which men are subservient to women. That is the ultimate goal of feminism.

Correct. This is why Feminists are quick to refer to the myth of the matriarchy, the greatest golden age of human existence pre-dating agriculture (and recorded history) when women benevolently using gifts of female sexual access and children. The archaelogical evidence is a smattering of unearthed basic sculptures with womanly shapes, interpreted to be goddesses instead of what they most probably were : visual material for masturbation

Uh, the myth of matriarchal prehistory is part of feminist spirituality. It’s no more invalid that Judeo/Christian myths of Adam and Eve or the Jewish myths of the captivity in Egypt. Everyone makes their own stories for spiritual reasons. That kind of a crappy argument. Goddess/female figurines weren’t prehistorical porn. That’s just idiotic. And there is even less evidence of that than there is evidence of matriarchal societies. But what do you care about facts and evidence, right?

The only wat to stop the misandry that has saturated our entire society is for men to start to stand up for themselves. We are all taught to cater to women, never talk back, laugh it off when we are verbally degraded, and never, never ever hit a woman, even when you yourself are being physically assaulted. This must stop. Women respectful of men will get respect, thoses who are not won’t. The next time you experience misandry speak up. Some time ago on a television talk show entitled “The Talk” co host Sharon Osbourne squeeled with delight, bounced up and down in her chair, clapped her hands, and laughed “how marvelous” when one of the topics discussed was a man’s wife cutting off his penis and throwing it in the garbage disposal. Had a male talk show host reacted the same way regarding female genital mutilation he would have been immediately fired, would never work on television again, would have to publically apologize and would have been scorned and held as an example of male brutality forever. Osbourne still has her job. Had a few million males converged on the lot of the studio where her show is filmed things may have been a little different. We should have but we didn’t. Thats why the hate continues. I recently went up to a woman wearing a shirt with a very degrading remark about men on it. I sail it was sexist and disgusting. I could see she was completly taken aback obviously no one had ever bothered to confront her about this disgusting shirt. I am starting to confront women on their hate filled actions and you should see the “how dare you talk to me, a female” look on their faces! I’m sure some of them almost shit their pants! No low life male has ever done that before. My message is simple – start to confront haters and NEVER back down. Radical man hating feminist Sally Miller Gerhart once said “The proportion of men must be reduced and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race” if men don’t start standing up and talking back this very well may happen.

Jodi wrote “Do those statistics also show what percentage of the time women pick up sick children from school? Or what percentage of the time women have to stay home with sick children? Do those statistics also look at how many women are denied full time jobs in favor of men??”

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics is a premier source of labor data. It doesn’t show why men or women are sick or don’t work more hours.

Married women in full-time jobs as a group work 10% fewer hours than men or never-marred women in full-time jobs. Hours alone account for half of the gender wage gap that Feminists persistently misrepresent as work-place discrimination in full-time jobs.

Never-married women also work 3.45% fewer hours than married or never-married men. What’s their excuse?

According to Thomas Sowell, women in part-time jobs also make more than men in part-time jobs.

Jodi wrote “Feminism: establishing political, social, and economic equality and rights for women.”

Feminism is also about reducing political, social and economic equality for men while reducing their legal and civil rights. Is male privilege equal legal and civil rights? Do women need more legal and civil rights to be equal to men?

No, feminism is not “also about reducing political, social and economic equality for men while reducing their legal and civil rights.” Those two things are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. Feminism is about EQUAL rights. What you’re talking about is not feminism, no matter how badly you want to control the conversation and make bullshit definitions up to suit your own purposes. Stop trying to control everything. Feminism is not what you’re trying to tell men it is. Stop lying to men. Have a little self-respect, would you?

Show me where Pell Grants list out restrictions that say men aren’t allowed to have Pell Grants. Or that only a certain amount of Pell Grants are allotted for men. You can’t. There aren’t any gender restrictions on who can get Pell Grants. Sixty percent of college degrees are earned by women BECAUSE WOMEN ARE GOING TO COLLEGE MORE THAN MEN. Men are choosing to NOT go to college. WTF, there is no institutional prohibition against men going to college or getting Pell Grants. Men aren’t going to college as much as women BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO.

Porn is a prime motivator for visual art. The first film images were porn. The first moving pictures (movies) were porn. With my professional lifetime, the first compressed JPG images were porn scans. The first MPEG-compressed movies were porn. Most of the data transmitted during the early days of the Internet was porn. It is prudish and Feminist to dismiss the possibility that other early sculptures and art forms, even those wrapped up in the Feminist Myth of the Matriarchy, were jerk-off material.

Feminists are entitled to have their own female supremacist religion in which the world is a better place when women rule over men and in which women assume men are too stupid to understand or have a say in their reproduction.

So, because the first images on the Internet were porn, the ancient sculptures must have been porn too? Christ, that wouldn’t even pass a freshman level anthropology class.

If there was evidence to show that they were pornographic, that would be one thing. But you’re just speculating, using wild associations to back up your claims, and then chastising me for not immediately accepting your theory. Come up with a better theory or at least some EVIDENCE (there’s that tricky evidence thing again) to support your argument and I’ll consider it.

And yes, women can have a female dominated religion just like men have had since the beginning of time. You obviously don’t understand feminist spirituality any better than you understand feminism, so I’m not going to bother to educate you on that either. Your ignorance is just exhausting.

Most anthropology is intuitive speculation. Pre-historic pornography would be a popular class for men, much more so than the Myth of Matriarchy AKA Female Supremacy. This would be a great addition to a non-Feminist Men’s Studies program. Sign me up!

Another field you know nothing about. Anthropology STILL abides by the same rules of evidence and supporting your arguments with facts, even if interpretation of those facts is a little less strict than other fields, like history and sociology.

Your last comment makes it seem like you only think of women as objects. But that just couldn’t be the case, could it? It’s a shame that misogynistic men have turned pornography into the horrendously exploitative, abusive, disgusting thing that it has become.

Men invented easy access to realistic erotic imagery which is most cases is more interesting and lower cost than real sex. Photographic pictures were better drawings or clay figurines.

Most women shame men about pornography because women lose their sexual leverage over men, but this is only because female sex is valued more than male sex. Does Feminism seek to equalize this social disparity AKA hypergamy?

Porn is one occupation in which female performers are valued and paid more than male performers in the same scene.

Animated porn is decent and will improve immensely this decade. At some point, erotic artistic renderings will put most porn actresses out of business.

Sexual exploitation of women isn’t even comparable to stunt work. Stunt work is done under very closely monitored conditions with proper medical care at the ready, safety precautions put in place, and every measure taken to ensure the safety of the stunt person. Female porn workers are horribly abused. How can you even bring the two up in comparison?

Depicting the sexual abuse of women for titillation is different than drama shows that deal with issues of sexual abuse. Not sure why you don’t understand that.

The problem with porn is how abusive it is. Men watch it and think that women like getting punched in the face during sex. Or that women like to be whipped. Or that women want to be choked. Porn has turned sex into something disgusting and shameful. It’s not longer erotic; it’s just disgusting. Porn became VERY exploitative of women; women were being forced into performing on camera, beaten when they didn’t perform well, had their money taken from them, coerced into taking drugs, etc. Only recently did women even come close to making the same amount of money as men in porn. Porn has turned into every woman-hating man’s fantasy – abuse and punish women who step out of line, get your rocks off, and then humiliate the woman. That’s not sexy; that’s pathetic and gross.

The scenes you describe aren’t much different from Hollywood films in which stuntmen risk their lives and limbs for special effects. Women and men watch Hollywood films and watch men being tortured and killed graphically while similar violence to women is implied with a scene cut or obstruction.

Men take much more physical abuse to make money, be it chemical exposure or the risk of physical injury in construction. Is there something special about porn that makes getting whipped any worse than getting a finger smashed by a hammer?

A lot of the abuse in porn isn’t that bad, and frankly, I don’t see much of what you describe. It just looks worse on the camera.

And, what is wrong with fantasy? If women like to watch prime TV with male relatives depicted as wife beaters, rapists and child molesters, while a responsible Dad is in the same room, should women be denied viewing these fantasies because they encourage women to view all men with these negative stereotypes?

Even if cartoon characters were used in all porn, Feminists would still oppose it. This is why Hollywood movies allows showing a man graphically getting his head or limbs blown off and a rape of a woman is not.

You really don’t understand how philosophy and history and proof and evidence work, do you? No one ever has to prove a negative. The person making the positive assertion (i.e. those figurines were pornographic art) are the ones who have the burden of proof. For instance, if you say there are giant pink unicorns on Mars (which you just might, judging by the ridiculousness of your previous arguments) it is not my responsibility to prove that you are wrong. Giant pink unicorns don’t automatically exist until I prove they don’t. See how this works?? YOU are responsible for backing up your argument. There is no responsibility on my end to prove you wrong. All I have to do is ask you to prove your claims. If you cannot do that, don’t bother trying to engage in these conversations.

Even starving artists, be it Van Gogh or American black slaves that developed jazz, have created masterpieces despite living in extreme poverty and political and social oppression. In an age in which women are earning 60% of college degrees, where is the female invention?

Slaves didn’t invent jazz. Jazz was a turn of the 20th century musical innovation. Slavery had been outlawed for 30 or so years by then. And there is tons of female innovation. You just discount it because you believe that only men can invent things that help the world.

Hedy Lamar – actress, mathematician, invented frequency hopping needed for wireless communications
Marie Curie (can’t wait for you to tell me it was all her husband’s idea)
Patricia Bath – patent for cataract surgery procedures
Temple Grandin – woman with autism, PhD from University of Illinois, invented humane animal handling systems in packing plants
Ada Lovelace – devised methods of computer programming before computers were even imagined (not bad for one of those dumb 19th century women, eh?)
Elizabeth Feinler and on and on and on.

When men control education, and publishing, and the media, do you really think they’re going to talk about the women who did this innovating? Hell no.

It is not my job to educate your willfully ignorant ass. YOU CHOOSE to ignore the women in history who have contributed just as much as men. YOU CHOOSE to not research the women who were instrumental in medical sciences, information technology, physical and behavioral sciences and so on. YOU CHOOSE to be ignorant and YOU CHOOSE to spew forth this vitriol against women, and then you have the audacity to complain that women are mean to you?

It’s silly when Feminists make a list of scientific contributions by women. Women have had an insignificant contribution to technology, and there is nothing to be celebrated about it, even with a short list of female inventors.

Invention is difficult, even for male inventors. Nothing stopped men without a formal education from invention in their teens and early 20s . Feminists claim that men actively suppressed female invention instead of acknowledging that women as a sex fall short in technical ability.

Oh, you think that I listed those because they are the only female inventors? There are THOUSANDS OF THEM. Again, it’s not my job to deprogram you or to educate you. I do see that you’re just trying to be an asshole to incite an argument. You have nothing to say in response so you’re just trying to poke at the nest.

You keep crying about how life is so unfair to you. You keep making stuff up about feminists. You keep denying women’s contributions to the world. Go for it. I don’t care. YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Stop spewing your crap. Save it for people who are dumb enough to fall for your crappy, made up statistics and “facts.” Like Donald. He likes that sort of bullshit.

If women are so so concerned about misogyny, they certainly don’t care that their misandry has made men eager to avoid women and fight for their basic rights. Feminism has been the most destructive force in American society. Do they really think we will go willingly to the slaughter?

Note that the spell check program .doesn’t even include the word misandry. They want a society where men have no rights and are written out of the society. When they get they want they wouldn’t be able to handle it.

Oh, I get it. A few women hate all men and suddenly hundreds of years of oppression, sexual harassment, rape, domestic violence, wage inequality, social inequality,and political inequality are justified! Gotcha! Men should just be allowed to beat women, rape them, humiliate them, and deny them basic healthcare rights, rights to decide what happens to their own bodies, right to earn a living, right to be parents AND have a career, the right to speak out. And if women say anything about it, or suddenly start to hate men (can’t figure out why they’d hate men under those conditions… it’s totally shocking! Why would any woman hate a man?!?) then all of this is women’s fault.

And BTW, since all technological innovation was created by men according to your buddy Ian there, why don’t you ask him why the MALE programmers didn’t include the word misandry in their dictionary. WHY? Because the instances of misandry are minimal compared to the institutionalized, rampant misogyny that is centuries old and crossing cultural boundaries all over the world.

No, you don;t get it. That was the lamest excuse I could imagine for not including misandry in the spell check. Since misandry is now the overt policy of our society, it certainly isn’t rare. If some female word were omitted, you would be the first with a mob of pitchfork and and torch bearing feminists demanding castration of any men on the staff.

No, YOU don’t get it. The reason why NO ONE has ever heard of misandry is because it is rare. There is no conspiracy against men in our society. What you see as misandry is really just taking away white male privilege. It is putting men on the same level as women and now allowing them to exploit their power or positions – in fact, it is just not allowing them to have that power. No, men don’t get the power to sexually abuse, harrass, or threaten women without consequences anymore. Men don’t get to force women out of the workplace anymore. Men don’t get to decide what women get to do with their bodies anymore. YOU LOST YOUR PRIVILEGE BECAUSE YOUR PREDECESSORS ABUSED THEIR POWER. Deal with it. You have no one to blame but men.

Now that men have to work with women (instead of lording over them), now that men have to compete with women in the workforce (instead of making them economically dependent on those who physically and mentally abused them), now that men do not get 100% say in the political decisions of our country, YOU think it’s unfair.You don’t get to do those things anymore. So you better find a way to live with women as equals because we will NOT go back to being your slaves and servants.

Kicking a man in the balls is battery and should be punishable by fines, jail, or both. It’s not funny. Calling a woman a whore isn’t funny either, but I’ve been called that about 3 dozen times in my life.

When a woman kicks you in the balls, you can call her a misandrist. When a woman says she wants to cut off your dick, then you can her a misandrist. When a woman says you don’t get preferential treatment anymore because you’re a man…that’s not misandry. That’s feminism.

Men being lorded over by other men? what does that have to do with feminists? Nothing.

What is best for women is to be equal partners, to be treated fairly and to have the same opportunities for fulfilling, meaningful lives as men. The right to choose their course of their own lives and the right to be happy. So when women were denied the right to vote and the right to run for public office, men were only doing what was best for them because it certainly wasn’t what was best for women. Thanks to the outstanding efforts of women who risked their lives and suffered battery, sexual assault, harassment, beatings, etc at the hands of men, women stopped men from preventing women from exercising their political rights.

Yes, it is a life of pampering to run after children all day, and try to clean the house, get puked on, peed on, crapped on, to listen to screaming for hours on end, to do the grocery shopping, run errands, work outside the home for an 8 hour day, then take the kids to the doc, have PTA meetings, soccer practice, then get dinner ready so husband has food waiting for him (after working a whole 8 hours, the poor fella) and then clean up, run after the kids again, and then be up all night when kids are sick… yeah. Pampered crybaby women. How dare they…

I don’t fear or hate men. I like men who can behave like human beings, act respectfully and responsibly, who treat others with dignity that all humans deserve. I get along well with many men. I work with men. I live with men. I associate with men on a regular basis. We have good times.

should have written Feminists do not want the word Misandry to be recognized as a concept because Feminism is based on misandry.
Women can only be free to behave as they want when men are not free to behave as they want.

No, we’re not going to teach kids that feminists are misandrists because they’re not. YOU want to convince people they are because if we turn back feminism, men can retake control over women. Men can abuse their power over women again without consequence and you don’t get to do that anymore. We will teach our kids what real feminism is about, not your anti-woman, anti-feminist, Rush Limbaugh-esque attempts to vilify and demonize feminists. Ain’t happening. You will lose. And you’ll lose badly.

Jodi wrote “Men can abuse their power over women again without consequence”

Feminist drivel.

An entire generation of boys raised during the heyday of Feminism is slowly coming to the realization that Feminism is just another sexist supremacist movement that does not credit men for their work and achievements while demonizing them as criminals, pedophiles, and other negative stereotypes. This is why many young women are not identifying themselves as Feminists. Feminism is a social ill.

Actually, many of the men raised during the heyday of feminism are feminists. Those men who don’t make disgusting comments to women, who dont’ try to pressure women into having sex with them, who work side-by-side with women as a team, who vote for candidates who protect women’s rights to choose what they do with their bodies, who go home from work and actively engage with their children and wives, who don’t call spending time with their own children “babysitting”… those are feminists. You’re not only surrounded by feminist women, you are surrounded by feminist men.

Your list describes me and the men in my family for generations. Were my grandfathers Feminists even before anyone knew what a Feminist was ? Nonsense. That’s family, not Feminism.

I do notice that your Feminism list is centered on improvements for women but none for men.

Feminism, on the other hand, is about denormalization of the heterosexual family. This is why same-sex marriage AKA gay marriage has popular support by Feminists. Most prominent Feminists authors wrote about how marriage was an oppressive institution for women (but not men) and should be abolished. With 40% of US children born out of wedlock, the Feminist goal is in sight.

Ian, you wrote “Your list describes me and the men in my family for generations. Were my grandfathers Feminists even before anyone knew what a Feminist was ?” Yes, they were feminists. All that makes one a feminist is believing in the inherent equality of men and women.

“I do notice that your Feminism list is centered on improvements for women but none for men.” Those ARE improvements for men. What man wouldn’t want to be a respectable human who works with women as equals? What man would want to be that creepy guy standing on the street making cat-calls at women, or the creepy, nasty guy in the office trying to pressure the women who work there to sleep with him? Of course these are improvements for men. What a fantastic life they could lead by treating women (and in turn, everyone they meet, because that’s what feminism teaches) with respect?!?

“Feminism, on the other hand, is about denormalization of the heterosexual family. This is why same-sex marriage AKA gay marriage has popular support by Feminists. Most prominent Feminists authors wrote about how marriage was an oppressive institution for women (but not men) and should be abolished. With 40% of US children born out of wedlock, the Feminist goal is in sight.” Your definition of “normal” is irrelevant when it comes to rights. Slavery was “normal” for centuries; that didn’t make it morally right. Many feminist women wrote about how the inequality in marriage was harmful to both men and women. Harmful to women for stifling their creativity by prohibiting them to explore educational, scientific, political, and social advancement, and harmful to men for making them valuable only for the income. Feminists didn’t do that. Patriarchal society did that.

Feminists aren’t the ones who judge men based on how much they make. That is a long standing traditional ideology of patriarchy that says a man is only valuable for what he earns at his job. Patriarchy says that women are the “nurturers and caregivers” and that is why men had a disconnect with their children. That wasn’t feminism. That’s what feminism has been trying to change.

Feminism also seeks improvements for men in playing greater roles in their children’s lives, even in cases of divorce. Feminists seek to ensure that men and women are given joint custody as often as possible and that all parents are good, involved parents. Feminists want dads to go to their kids soccer games AND take them to soccer practice. Feminists want dads to teach their kids compassion and caring and nurturing. Feminists want boys to grow up knowing that they don’t have to play sports to be “manly.” They want boys to be able to play with whatever toys they want without being called sissies. They want boys to be able to wear what they want without being called faggots and homos. They want boys to be able to sing and dance and paint and care for animals and care for children without being labeled as faggots or in the case of caring for children, being labeled as pedophiles. That’s some of what feminists want to help accomplish. There is so much more…

And I know you’ll probably ignore everything I just wrote, so hopefully some other guy wandering onto this site will see it and want to actually learn about feminist for himself, instead of listening to the conspiracy theories.

Feminists take a class issue of a male-populated work force and present it as a sex issue. Feminists are responsible for propagating a narrow way to view the world : male industry that is based on the labor of men is female oppression. It’s a parasitic view of the world.

Only when enough male invention (factory machinery, microprocessor, air conditioner) accumulated to yield the cushy factory or office environment were women interested in joining the full-time work force outside of the home. Women in the full-time work force is a product of male-driven technological progress, not Feminism. Feminism is activism to ensure that men have fewer legal and civil rights, particularly with family (divorce) and children.

In the 19th century, during the second Industrial Revolution, women were hired to work in sweatshops and factories because they could be paid a fraction (about 1/4) of what men could be paid. That’s not a class issue. That’s a sex issue. After World War I, women were pressured into leaving the jobs they took up during the war so that men coming back could have “their” jobs back. Those who didn’t leave willingly were fired. Even today women who are recently married are discriminated against and not hired because they are of child bearing age. Again, sex issue. Not class.

Men in positions of rank have (and continue) to use their economic power over women to demand sexual favors. It happens in the military, it happens in corporate world, it happens in Hollywood. It happens CONSTANTLY. That’s a sex issue, not class.

Again, you’re just assuming that all of those technological innovations were made by men, and they weren’t. But you’re still of the mindset that if YOU declare it, it must be true…

Jodi wrote “then get dinner ready so husband has food waiting for him (after working a whole 8 hours, the poor fella)”

This is a typical condescending statement written by Feminists, mostly because women as a group have little experience with providing all of the income for a household while supporting a man in the role of the homemaker.

If the roles were reversed and the man was at home, would he be selfish if he prepared food for himself and HIS children and didn’t scale the meal by to include another person?

Ian, if I seem condescending to men who think they are entitled to have a woman wait on them after an 8 hour work day, when most women with families would love to have only an 8 hour workday, good. Men shouldn’t be expecting women to set aside their lives to make men’s lives more convenient. Get up and get your own dinner.

If the roles were reversed (and even not), I would expect the parent who has not been at home with the children all day to help with the housework when dinner was over. I would expect the parent who has been out of the house all day to take the children for a few hours, to clean up dinner, to get the kids bathed, etc. Shared responsibilities at home instead of expecting someone to be your maid.

8 hour day? Women on average clock an 8 hour day in full-time job. After a 10 hour day, Should a husband that provides 100% of the financial contribution to a household not expect a dinner to be scaled to him?

I’m surely talking to a woman that was unable or unwilling to maintain a relationship with the biological father of her child(ren) for the sake of allowing a life-long, co-resident male role model for them. Am I wrong?

Jodi wrote “Yes, they were feminists. All that makes one a feminist is believing in the inherent equality of men and women.”

No. A Feminist is an activist that seeks to improve the social standing and wealth of women, usually at the expense of men, viewing any negative difference as discrimination against women and any positive difference (e.g. the poorest people are men) as unworthy of attention.

If a Feminist passed 1000 homeless men and 1 homeless woman, she would start a charity for homeless women.

You don’t get to define feminism because you’re not a feminist. I don’t get to define Christianity: I am not a Christian. You are trying to define feminism in a negative way to promote your own sexism and hatred of women, so no. You don’t get to define it. WE define our own movements.

Christianity doesn’t attempt to force people to conform to its dogma?! Are we living in the same universe, Ian?

You go ahead and “expose” feminism the way Rush Limbaugh has “exposed” it. He made a joke of himself. No one takes that clown seriously anymore because he’s totally full of shit and everyone saw through his crap.

Have I missed the Feminists that don’t think the following male issues are not worthy of attention :

1) Closing the life span gap

Women live 5 yrs longer, so shift health care money spent on women towards men until longetivity has been equalized. For example, shifting breast cancer (#3 cancer) federal dollars which exceeds the total spent on prostate (#2 cancer) and lung (#1 cancer). This may reduce the female life span while increasing the male life span.

2) Equal opportunity in higher education

Ensuring that boys graduate at the same rate as women. Female students receive 60% of Pell Grant money.

4) Give men control over their bodies AKA reproduction.

Development of a male birth control pill so that men have equal control over their fertility and their decision to be a father. Enacting laws for mandatory DNA paternity testing to give men access to paternity confirmation, preferably early in the pregnancy. Criminalizing child/infant circumcision for boys.

Feminists don’t read the lower participation of men in higher education as discrimination against men in the educational system. When women choose not to enter STEM majors, Feminists label that as discrimination.

If men aren’t graduating high school and entering college, why aren’t any Federal dollars spent on male-oriented remedial programs ?

No, feminists see the discouragement of girls in pursuing STEM fields as discrimination. I got to go through that. I was told by teachers not to go into science (even though I loved it) because that was a boys’ field. I was told to pursue secretarial work or teaching. Those were my options. As a result, I didn’t retain my love of science throughout high school and never pursued a career in science.

If colleges are not letting boys in, or if schools are actively discouraging boys from going into fields like nursing because they are “girls’ fields” then I could see your point.

If your hiring managers told you specifically that you were not hired even though you were better qualified simply because you were a man, I will concede your point. But if you’re basing this on your perception that the woman hired over you was not as qualified as you, then no.

Jodi wrote “Men aren’t going to college as much as women BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO.”

Do you have any sources to prove that or are you making that up? Do you have any sources that show that a lower male high graduation rate or college application rate isn’t due to bias in the educational system ?

The lack of barriers to boys going into college and funding their education is the proof. There is not prohibition for boys to go to college. However, if evidence is presented that shows that boys ARE being actively discriminated against, or that there is bias in the educational system, then that needs to be fixed. But until there is evidence of active bias against boys, there is nothing else to go on.

Healthcare is already preferential to men, but if you want money to be devoted to finding out why men don’t live as long as women, okay. That would make a good study. And if it turns out that men don’t live as long as women because they don’t care of themselves as well as women do, then men need to be educated on the importance of not putting their lives and health at risk.

Equal opportunity in higher education already exists. Female students receive 60% of Pell Grant money because more of them are going to college. Boys are choosing not to go to college. They are not being prohibited from going, so there IS equal OPPORTUNITY there. Demanding that boys go to college just to keep up with the amount of girls isn’t equality. Let boys decide what they want to do. They can earn a good living working a trade if they choose. If girls decide they want to pursue jobs that don’t require a college education, that’s fine too.

Male birth control is a good idea. Paternity testing should not be mandatory, but provided only if it is requested. Circumcision should be banned everywhere around the world. Male and female circumcision are barbaric, horrific practices.

How? Women consume more health care services, even when pregnancy is not included. In group health insurance plans in which men and women are required to pay the same rate, this means that men pay more. On the contrary, healthcare is preferential to women.

Should the burden of proof fall on the assertion or the counter assertion?

Jodi wrote “Paternity testing should not be mandatory, but provided only if it is requested. ”

Paternity testing must be mandatory. Men need protection from fraud in precisely the cases in which a woman doesn’t want him to know and persuades him to forego testing. This testing should be funded by the state and health insurance instead of infant penis cutting.

Is there a single word to describe the oldest crime of all time: paternity fraud? Stealing money from an employer is embezzlement. Even that has a word.

A man’s right to fatherhood has been normalized to be a male social problem unworthy of attention. It is considered to be a victimless crime because the man’s interests are trumped by those of the woman.

Certainly, Feminists will fight mandatory paternity testing even though it only denies women to commit fraud.

For starts, I’d like to read about Feminists interested in reproductive rights for men.

All of the major works I’ve read are about repressing the full expression of male behavior to allow the full expression of female behavior and how men are responsible for all of the bad and none of the good in the world.

What are you reading? I’d like a list if you’d provide it. I’ve never read anything from feminists about wanting to destroy men’s rights or that men are responsible for all the bad in the world (except maybe Mary Daly), so it sounds like your only exposure to feminism is radical feminism.

Read “The Spiral Dance” by Starhawk. She is a feminist Pagan, so you might find it weird if you’re not a Pagan or not familiar with modern Paganism, but it gives an excellent example of what feminism sees for both men and women and how feminist spirituality addresses gender issues.

I don’t think you’ve read the books by the prominent Feminists. Perhaps you have the potential to be an Equalist or Humanist and not a Feminist. You seem to have a lukewarm interest in considering male social issues, but since you’re viewing the world through the lens of Female-only oppression, you’re a Feminist.

You have put your finger on the damage extreme feminism has done to society. We can hope that men who grew up being demonized can overcome the damage done to them and work to see that this destructive nonsense is stopped.

I’ve don’t believe I’ve been passed up by either a man or woman because I’ve never been rejected for a job I’ve applied/interviewed for, except for a couple during the slew of interviews in the college recruitment program. Perhaps then corporations were also under pressure to recruit the women.

The internship applicant list is close to 100% male. Male candidates are selected from the list and interviewed by phone or in person, when possible. Female candidates are only interviewed by the hiring manager. For the same two internship spots in my department, one male and one female is hired every year. How can that be?

A similar process takes place for female hires in which they are hired without going through the 1-2 day staff hiring process. Nearly all male interviewees are rejected. Perhaps all three Fortune 500 companies I’ve worked for are under pressure to hire women in their male-populated departments. Their method to combat perceived discrimination against women is to commit real discrimination against men.

Women use the bulk of health care services even when pregnancy is not included. There are several National health care offices for women and zero for men. Some health issues are not symmetrical between the sexes.

Women receive an additional $10k-35k in pregnancy services *per* 2.1 children. How many Viagra pills does $10k-35k buy? How many Viagra pills does a lifetime of annual female gynecological check-ups buy? Men should receive something for the money they pay, but it’s clear that women don’t consider men’s health issues to be worthy. Services for the penis are mocked by women.

I’m all for independent administration of men’s and women’s healthcare insurance, just like life or car insurance. Give women all of the services they want and charge them accordingly.

Health care for pregnant women is beneficial to men. It’s not just for women. Presumably men would like to have healthy children. And I believe we’ve already discussed how I don’t particularly care for the medical field’s handling of child birth and how I think midwives are often a better option. Of course women are concerned about men’s health issues. That’s why Planned Parenthood offers all kinds of healthcare services to men too. Physicals, STD testing, men’s reproductive health, cancer screenings…all for men. Don’t believe me? Check out your local Planned Parenthood. Funny… the leading feminist health care organization is also the leading organization for low cost men’s reproductive care. How ’bout that…

Services for the penis aren’t mocked, but if they are important enough for insurance companies to cover, then surely breast care and reconstructive surgery after breast cancer should be treated with as much importance.

Feminists would like to protect the penis. THAT’S WHY MANY OF US ARE AGAINST CIRCUMCISION.

What healthcare insurers don’t cover breast reconstruction after mastectomy? I visited the home page of Kaiser Permanente, the largest(?) US health care provider, and searched to find this (no, I didn’t read the whole thing) :

“Women’s Health and Cancer Rights Act (WHCRA) of 1998, a federal law which mandates coverage of reconstructive surgery following mastectomy for all health plans that provide medical and surgical benefits.”

Paternity testing OTC is available, but it’s nearly worthless at that point. Male reproductive rights have been ignored in the age of female-only contraception. DNA paternity pre-natal alerts (pair up the blood test with the ultrasound) and neo-natal paternity testing.

Some estimates of paternity fraud in the US and UK place it around 10%, with less fraud occurring to higher income fathers and nearly 33% fraud rates for unmarried low income fathers.

Jodi wrote “Sexual exploitation of women isn’t even comparable to stunt work.”

How is that? Fewer deaths and injuries for female visual performers? Is there something sacred about the vagina or anus that we should feel a special sympathy for women that choose to profit from the social taboo against performing sexual acts for the viewing pleasure of others?

we’re talking about the sexual exploitation of women and girls in the porn industry. just because a few american women have made a fortune doing it doesn’t mean it isn’t extraordinarily exploitative and abusive. it’s not about it being a social taboo, it’s about it being harmful to women. Especially when men think it’s okay to rape women because they see it in porn and the women “like” it.

Jodi wrote “during the second Industrial Revolution, women were hired to work in sweatshops and factories because they could be paid a fraction (about 1/4) of what men could be paid.”

This is a worker supply and demand issue, not a sex issue. If women worked for 0.5% less and performed the same work, women would also have a hiring preference. If the men and the women produced the same, you can bet a sweatshop owner would hire the workers that generated the greatest profit.

“After World War I, women were pressured into leaving the jobs they took up during the war so that men coming back could have “their” jobs back.”

Isn’t this similar to holding a job position for a woman that takes 3-12 months of pregnancy leave ? Should pregnant women today be told their jobs don’t exist because they weren’t available to work? What about conscripted (legalized slavery) men?

Female choice was also a factor. Would you prefer to have a job for a short time to fill a vacant spot in a factory or be forced to travel overseas to kill lots of Europeans and Japanese only to return maimed or dead ? I

77,000 Americans (nearly all male) were killed in WW II. The exemption from conscription for women continues until today. This is a female privilege provided by a government that Feminists believe exists only to benefit men.

I think conscription should be illegal. If you don’t have people lining up around the block to defend your country, you shouldn’t be going to war. As for women taking pregnancy leave: no. Pregnancy is a natural part of life. Most women will go through it at some point in their lives. Wars are not a natural function. I don’t think that women should have been forced out of work after the first World War (not talking about the second one because many did stay in the workforce).

You like biology so much… why would a society never want to force women to go to wars to get killed?

Jodi wrote “Even today women who are recently married are discriminated against and not hired because they are of child bearing age.”

That’s a productivity issue disguised as a sex issue. Women that bear children while employed cost more to employ even when they perform the same work. Laws that prevent dumping less productive or absent workers result in more cautious hiring practices.

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics gathered data in 2012 that showed that marital status doesn’t affect the # of hours worked by men but results in 10% fewer hours worked by married women. If you were an employer, who would you hire?

You’ll make everything a “productivity issue” just so you don’t have to deal with the issue of gender discrimination. If women were assured a livable wage so that having children didn’t leave them economically vulnerable, then it wouldn’t be an issue. But we have to make sure “productivity” is protected, just not economic security for women. Okay… that’s how modern societies should operate. The US is one of the last industrialized countries in the world to offer paid maternity leave and we rank at the bottom in almost every quality of life measurement.

Jodi wrote ” The US is one of the last industrialized countries in the world to offer paid maternity leave and we rank at the bottom in almost every quality of life measurement.”

This implies a motivation for emigration instead of immigration. What perpetuates a continual stream of immigration from industrialized countries while a mass exodus from the US has still not occurred?

“But we have to make sure “productivity” is protected, just not economic security for women”

Why can’t women be as productive as men? If men and women don’t have the same productivity, how can they be equals?

There are some that attempt to force one party to do all of the of work to support assertions while exempting themselves from equivalent work to support their own claims. You’re showing some improvement lately in supporting your own claims, but I still have yet to see you list a specific reference (other than a Wicca-genre book) let alone a direct web link to a source.

Feminism is not about equal rights. Feminism is about seeking unequal rights in order for women to feel equal to men. This is particularly true in the arena of reproductive rights.

An unmarried woman may force an unmarried man to be the legal father of her child. An unmarried woman may give up all legal rights to a child shortly after birth simply by concealing the birth from the father. Have any Feminists written about support for a “legal abortion” for unwilling fathers ? How many Feminists oppose a male legal abortion?

A married man is forced to be the legal father of every child born to his wife. A married woman is not forced to be the legal mother of every child fathered by the husband with other women during their marriage. What do Feminists have to say about this legal inequality?

Rape shield laws prevent the name of the claimed adult victim to be hidden while the name of the accused victim is made public. This is the only crime in which female victims receive the same legal treatment as children.

Only men are required to register for the Selective Services. Failure to do before age 26 so results in permanent barring from most Federal employment as well as reduced access to Federal college tuition assistance. These sexually discriminatory registration forms are displayed in a dedicated display in US Post Offices. Are Feminists lobbying to eliminate male-only conscription, which is a provision for legalized male-only slavery?

Jodi wrote ” why would a society never want to force women to go to wars to get killed?”

Even in a patriarchy, the life of a woman is valued more than the life of a man. Placing a woman on the battlefield requires the sacrifice of even more men to offer her the protection equivalent make her the equivalent of a male soldier. Would it be fair to put twice as many women with lighter packs (less water, less ammunition, smaller rounds, lighter grenades with less killing power) to do the job of men? Would it be fair to a female soldier to require her to maintain a base camp with half the lifting power of a man? Even patriarchs are fair.

No, we don’t send women to war because if you kill off the women, you have no population and your culture ceases to exist. In order to keep a society going, you need more women than men. Women can’t impregnate themselves, so I’m not saying men are unimportant, but one man can impregnate many women. It’s a biological reason and it’s not fair to men, but it’s also not fair to ask women who are not represented proportionally in the legislative bodies that declare war to fight a war that men start for the benefit and profit of men.

If women had equal access to politics the way they should, they would’ve been involved in the decision making that would’ve determined who gets drafted.

Jodi wrote “As for women taking pregnancy leave: no. Pregnancy is a natural part of life”

You probably meant to write more …

Why aren’t men and women offered the same amount of bonus leave and job protection? Why is a new father that doesn’t feel like going back to work deserving of less job protection than a new mother that doesn’t feel like going back to work?

If men and women were noth offered three months of fully-paid leave for whatever purpose they desire, would women of child-bearing age think this is discriminatory because they use this time for pregnancy?

They are. Men are allowed paternity leave as well to bond with their children. In other countries, men and women get PAID maternity leave. Feminists would like to see that in the US.

It’s not a matter of a woman not wanting to go back to work. You seem to think raising kids is a piece of cake, that it takes not toll on your body to be pregnant, no toll on your body to feed a newborn. Yeah, women can go back to work the day after their child is born. Is that the kind of society you want? That smacks of socialist oppression to me. And then women are chastised for putting their children in daycare. They can’t win either way. It’s just a constant criticism of every decision women make. Men don’t face that kind of scrutiny or judgment.

I think everyone should have more vacation time, so you’re not going to get an argument out of me about paid time off. Pregnancy is a special case. It is a life changing event, so it should be accommodated according. I think men should get significant amounts of paid paternal leave.

Jodi wrote ” Men are allowed paternity leave as well to bond with their children. ”

Yahoo, a Fortune500 company, recently announced that mothers will be given 4 months of paid leave while fathers will be given 2 months of paid leave. This is a female-specific job perque that also discriminates against employees that bore children before hiring and those employees that never bear children.

What message does female-specific pay perques send to men? Yahoo pays women more then men for the same job.

Jodi wrote “Especially when men think it’s okay to rape women because they see it in porn and the women “like” it.”

Do you have any proof that porn changes the attitudes of men and forced sex? If anything, even with expanding definitions of male->female rape, sexualt assault crimes are at an all-time low when exposure to porn is at an all-time high. For support of my counter-assertion, I’ll use porn industry revenue and the volume of Internet porn coupled with FBI’s annual report “Crime in the United States.”

Notice that expanded definitions of rape do not include any female->male rape, which is also unwanted groping during sleep, barrier-free envelopment of male genitals by mouth or vagina during sleep as well as sex under the influence of drugs or alcohol when the female serves the substance. Feminists have steered clear of protecting males against unwanted or coerced sex only because Feminists believe that men, but not women, are able to use verbal coercion in sex.

Uh, no. Feminists have been VERY outspoken, much more than male rights “activists”, against rape in ALL FORMS. Feminists have led the way in demanding that men who rape children, women, and other men be PUT IN JAIL. Feminists are the reason why men who rape other men are held accountable at all, even though they rarely are. And feminists have always spoken out against the culture that thinks things like jailhouse rape are laughing matters. And feminists have always spoken out against women who rape men, women, and children, as well. Feminists are the ones who spoke out against those “pretty” female teachers who get no jail time for raping their male students. MEN were the ones saying they were too pretty for jail! Men were the ones making jokes about it! Get your facts straight.

Jodi wrote “No, we don’t send women to war because if you kill off the women, you have no population”

Incorrect. More men than women are needed to support a civilization. Women cost more and overall are less economically-productive. You are describing a near-extinction situation in which every woman is risked, stripping the population of wombs. How long do ten pregnant females + children survive with only one man?

Wrong. A woman can only give birth to one or two children per year on average. Men can impregnate as many women as they can… get to in a year. More women than men are needed to sustain a population. Your ridiculous assumptions about how women only sap resources and contribute nothing to society are boring and stupid and I’m tired and I want to go to bed. I’m not going to argue this ridiculous crap notion that you have that women are worthless wastes of space. You and Donald can play anti-feminist patty-cake for the rest of the night. I don’t care…

More men are needed. Women cost more to sustain and employ. This is reflected in female hypergamy in which a good man is one that is is of higher but not equal socioeconomic standing than a woman. This is also reflected in the 75% female participation rate in the workforce.

Yes, women perform a lot of critical childcare. Except for those women that are unable or unwilling to allow the biological father his right to access his children, women in general find funding for their effort in a man. Feminists seek to denormalize and destroy the heterosexual family and instead tax society for childcare with the intent of monopolizing reproduction by reducing men to sperm donors/wage slaves.

Jodi wrote “women are fighting to be allowed combat roles in the military.”

Did I miss the Feminist protests of the male-only Selective Services registration form display in every US Post Office? Women want to be allowed in combat roles with lower physical requirements. If women qualify with lower physical requirements, why don’t all of the men that fail the men’s physical requirements but pass the women’s physical requirements qualify?

Jodi wrote “They are. Men are allowed paternity leave as well to bond with their children.”

Paternity leave is shorter and usually results in half pay. Protections for mothers far exceed that for fathers. But that’s not the point. Why aren’t men and women given the same amount of leave for whatever purpose they desire? Some employers offer a sabbatical every 6 or 7 years. I’ve even heard Feminist co-workers argue that this is discriminatory because women are unable to stay at these corporations for that duration.

I don’t think that raising children is a piece of cake. I know very well how to keep my job while my wife is a full-time mother of two. Perhaps you can chastise me for marrying a woman with 1/5 my annual earning potential and zero initial financial contributions to the marriage.

In general, women couple with men that earn 20%, which is another way of saying that women marry up.

Jodi wrote “that’s why women are fighting to be allowed combat roles in the military.”

Cute. Feminist politics : some women arguing for the inclusion of women in combat roles while Feminists at large argue that the Selective Services should be abolished only when the possibility of a real draft no longer exists. Instead, the argument should be why men in the police, fire fighter and US armed forces are subjected to different standards for physical fitness. The discrimination is against the men that fail the male standards while meeting or exceeding the female standards.

Seriously. Women in combat and even fire fighting roles increases the risk of harm to men. If a firefighting unit of five is converted from 100% male to 80% male, a man’s chance of selection for the most dangerous rescue increases from 1 in 5 to 1 in 4. The woman’s chance of selection remains 0. Adding women to these units INCREASES the risk of harm to men.

What’s next? Citing Israeli women in so-called “combat roles” with their Caracal unit? This unit has existed for over ten years and has experienced two casualties, one man and one woman, with only one kill. That’s not a combat role.

All military service should be voluntary and anyone who choose to serve and can should be allowed to do so.

Oh, physical fitness…lol Women’s standards are the same for women as they are for men. In other words, men are expected to perform at their X capacity to be qualified for military, police, and firefighter status. Women are expected to also perform at their X capacity, but because women of are smaller stature, meeting that requirement doesn’t require as much brute force. You seem to think physical brute force is the only indicator of a good fire/police/service member. Same old misogynistic bullshit.

I’m laughing at what you wrote about firefighters… So if there are 100% male firefighters, the chance that a man will be put in a dangerous rescue is less than when women are added. That’s absolute idiocy.If they’re all men, then the chance that a man is going to put into the most dangerous rescues is 100%, you dope, since IT’S ONLY MEN WHO ARE RESPONDING TO ANY SITUATIONS AT ALL. If you keep writing nonsense like this, we’ll just have to end this conversation for good.

Yes, adding women is harmful to men, except you have no proof, no citation of any study that has proven this, and all you really have is all you’ve ever had: your own bullshit misogyny. Sigh… wish you’d come up with something better.

I don’t argue that women are worthless. Women offer critical maternal services. It simply costs more to support a woman than a man. Women make this up with womb services. This is why nearly every woman reproduces while only 80% of men reproduce. And this is why women see themselves as superior to men. Where are all the good men ?

If more women are needed to sustain a population, why do populations with scarce resources value male children over female children?

jodi wrote “You’ll make everything a “productivity issue” just so you don’t have to deal with the issue of gender discrimination”

You make everything a genital issue to avoid the productivity issue : men are the relative wage slaves of women.

How is a woman with a lower lifetime socioeconomic contribution to society the equal to a man? This is the Feminist conundrum. You’d think there would be at least one Fortune 500 company that is able to make use of a female CEO and a nearly all-female workforce. Instead, nearly all of the companies rely on a male majority workforce that works more hours on average than married or never-married women.

Oh, it’s not a genital issue because genitals don’t always determine your gender. There is rampant discrimination against effeminate and gay men too, but we’re talking about your phony bullshit misandry claims. Discrimination against LGBTQA individuals is another matter altogether.

Here’s your problem: You declare that women have a lower lifetime socioeconomic contribution to society, completely discounting that her socioeconomic contribution when not working for someone else for a paycheck, comes from raising her children at home.

Your argument is ridiculous. Men pay women far less than they pay themselves, therefore women don’t contribute more. Men value women’s work less, so women are worth less. It’s self-fulfilling. You use your own faulty logic as your justification. It’s like saying the Bible is really the word of God because the Bible says it’s the word of God. Circular logic.

Just because women have been confined to the home until about 50 years ago, and have been denied educational, social, and political status by men who wanted to dominate doesn’t mean that women (or anyone for that matter) is only worth what they can produce so that another person can make a profit. You, working for every Fortune 500 company that ever existed, are one of those people who only see a person’s worth in their paycheck.

There is no reason why women should live at a disadvantage to men because when they get pregnant they leave the workforce for a short period and time and when they return, they often do so at less hours because they are the primary caregiver to their children. Motherhood is far more valuable than anything you will EVER do in your Fortune 500 company. Motherhood is worth far more than any paycheck you’ll ever receive.

Jodi wrote “Just because women have been confined to the home until about 50 years ago”

Feminist nonsense. Until IBM standardized the typewriter and Shockley invented the integrated circuit, there were few cushy office jobs that women pursued. Even today, good jobs in technology require a 50+ hour work week. Women prefer fewer hours to allow them to continue domination of the domicile and present this value to a husband : hypergamy.

Women were liberated by male invention, not an ideological movement that coincided with male-driven technological progression.

Proves the point. these feminists only want everything with no responsibility. It must be wonderful to be a female with all privileges and no accountability. All standards for real jobs have been lowered so they a=can pretend to be the executives to “manage ” the men who do the jobs,

If women and men do the same job, I would expect the day-time office construction coordinators to be 50/50 male/female. Since nearly all of the day-time corporate construction coordinators are women, their hiring advantage must be lower pay. If not, there is rampant pro-female sexism in hiring practices in construction.

I do notice that day-time construction coordinators are female while early morning and night-time coordinators are male. Is it sexist to pay more for work during non-daytime hours?

Why should their hiring advantage mean a lower pay? Men don’t have to take lower pay when they dominate a field like medicine or politics. What bullshit is this? When women are paid more then men, no matter what the circumstances, you call it sexism. What a bunch of crap.

I apologize Jodi for some of the rather more immature comments some people have made on here. Nobody deserves to go through that. I’ll admit that I was very confused too. I guess some people just aren’t what they seem to be. Why can’t we just have a rational, peaceful discussion? We don’t need to be at each others throats, there’s already enough of that in the world.

Lower pay is a hiring advantage when two equal workers apply for a job. If you were a business owner, would you hire the worker that demanded more money for the same work?

Men have a greater propensity to seek higher pay because gender stereotypes value men more for their money than their company. Men are pressured into occupations which demand higher hours, which is reflected in the greater hours men work per week (source : US BLS 2012).

When women are paid more, such as greater parental maternity leave, more sick days (fewer work hours for same salary), that is sexism because women are paid more for equal work.

Women cost more to employ. With more maternal benefits paid to women (note Yahoo’s recent inflation of maternal benefits to 4 months while limiting paternal benefits to 2 months), employers will be more exacting in their hiring standards. When a male and female candidate have the same qualifications, hire the man because he will work more hours.

I’ve read your posts equating the work of a doctor to that of a nurse. If they are paid the same, who would study more years and take more financial responsiblity for medical decisions? Your Feminist brand of communism would result in the complete absence of doctors.