You called me a non-enthusiast dork and you know nothing about me.
Let me know when you fix your "rules".

Come on get real. I did not call YOU a single thing. I know nothing about you except quite a few good posts from you If the shoes fits put it on I guess! All I said was that SOME folks that will pull the trigger quickly (regardless of tranny choice) will be a certain type of person and those folks will piss me off. Cheers.

Come on get real. I did not call YOU a single thing. I know nothing about you except quite a few good posts from you If the shoes fits put it on I guess! All I said was that SOME folks that will pull the trigger quickly (regardless of tranny choice) will be a certain type of person and those folks will piss me off. Cheers.

Swamp. Are you sure the frustration you have is not more about the possibility that the car might not debut with dsg or similar and therefore other less enthusiastic than you (however, still enthusiastic about the car) will be driving around and getting the kudos before you? If so i can understand, but also not everyone who opts for the MT because they do not want to wait is a dork! Each of the trannies have good and bad. MT is pure, more natural whereas dsg is more advanced and quicker.

1. Do or do not non-enthusiast dorks buy hot new cars with little to no appreciation of the vehicles features and capabilities and heritage?
2. Is or isnīt it fair for a true enthusiast to also want to have something when it is fresh. IMO it is definitely a fun part of having a new vehicle to simply have it when it first comes out?
3. Go tell someone else they donīt have class before you know anything about me.

Swamp i swear your annoying
the only person who is really immature about these tranny issues is you
Nobody disses a transmission except you

Yes i do think people who go 6 SPEED FOR LIFE is retarded but u just keep dissing thinking your very smart

I AM NOT CALLING ANYONE HERE A DORK. Can you please READ MY POSTS (apparently not...)?? I have only been critical of those folks who jump the bandwagon, get whatever is new and hot and are not really M enthusiasts. If you are an M enthusiast - the shoe does not fit so don´t bloody put it on!!!

Personally I would choose ZSG>SMG>MT, but of course this is my choice. I do find it hard to believe that a real driver/enthusiast/performance seeker would choose MT but certainly to each their own. If you like to row your gears - go ahead, I´m sure you will have fun. But the driver of exact equal skill to you will have soooo much fun passing you in nearly all circumstances with a more advanced transmission.

Personally I would choose ZSG>SMG>MT, but of course this is my choice. I do find it hard to believe that a real driver/enthusiast/performance seeker would choose MT but certainly to each their own. If you like to row your gears - go ahead, Iīm sure you will have fun. But the driver of exact equal skill to you will have soooo much fun passing you in nearly all circumstances with a more advanced transmission.

Got to agree with that. The clutch pedal is a relic of the past just like the carburator.

I do find it hard to believe that a real driver/enthusiast/performance seeker would choose MT

So you find it hard to believe that enthusiasts wish to be involved, as much as possible, with every aspect of the car and it's parts, including the changing of gears? Driving a high performance car is not simply about speed, but the integration between operator and machine. This clearly is lost on you.

Given a choice over SMGII or manual I would go manual every time based on personal experience with my E46 M3 CSL. What the new 'box will be like, I probably shan't know until my new manual M3 arrives, by which time it will be too late.

So you find it hard to believe that enthusiasts wish to be involved, as much as possible, with every aspect of the car and it's parts, including the changing of gears? Driving a high performance car is not simply about speed, but the integration between operator and machine. This clearly is lost on you.

Given a choice over SMGII or manual I would go manual every time based on personal experience with my E46 M3 CSL. What the new 'box will be like, I probably shan't know until my new manual M3 arrives, by which time it will be too late.

Yep, in the same way I am content to not tune a carburator, start the car with a manual choke, add oil ever 300 miles, or double clutch because the car doesn't have syncros.

Some things add to the experince, others are just a PITA.

I am involved with the changing of the grears, I just have a better interface to the device now

The interface may be better than the previous interface you are used to, however it is still an interface that is keeping you at least one step further removed from what is actually going on.

There may be a cultural difference between UK and US here, it appears that in the US an auto gearbox is far more acceptable, whereas in the UK auto's have been typically disregarded by enthusiasts due to power loss from torque converters and disconnecting the driver from the driving experience. Admittedly autos are improving and continue to narrow the gap between manual and auto.

[quote=Woms;827722]So you find it hard to believe that enthusiasts wish to be involved, as much as possible, with every aspect of the car and it's parts, including the changing of gears? Driving a high performance car is not simply about speed, but the integration between operator and machine. This clearly is lost on you.
QUOTE]

There may be a cultural difference between UK and US here, it appears that in the US an auto gearbox is far more acceptable, whereas in the UK auto's have been typically disregarded by enthusiasts due to power loss from torque converters and disconnecting the driver from the driving experience. Admittedly autos are improving and continue to narrow the gap between manual and auto.

I don't know about cultural differences between the US and UK as they relate to choice of transmissions, but since we are talking about M3s here, then I don't think automatic transmissions with torque converters are relevant to our discussion.

I used to be a die-hard manual tranny guy, but SMG in the E46 M3 has won me over.

Granted, at some point automation takes away from the experience. I do not think that taking away the clutch pedal crosses the line into too much automation for enthusiast driving. You still must modulate the throttle for smoothness, you still decide which gear to use. You can even keep that left foot involved by left foot braking! It is a great technique, especially on the track.