Hunting laws that don't seem to be grounded in logic

Crossbows (which I seriously want to get into) are prohibited during the muzzleloader season even though modern, scoped muzzleloaders firing ballistic tip bullets are legal.

Who comes up with this stuff?

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trueg50

October 20, 2013, 07:39 PM

Magazine restrictions (6 round in my state).

Its nice they exempt 22 rimfires, but none of the 17's would be. It would be nice to use regular old magazines, or the fixed magazine with the SKS, even if we are just tossing in 5 or 6 rounds.

My state used to ban sidearms during bow season, but that was just lifted this year.

avs11054

October 20, 2013, 07:58 PM

Its nice they exempt 22 rimfires, but none of the 17's would be. It would be nice to use regular old magazines, or the fixed magazine with the SKS, even if we are just tossing in 5 or 6 rounds.

AZ just recently got rid of this restriction. And we are now able to use supressors.

jack44

October 20, 2013, 08:34 PM

There are some laws here in Wisconsin that are dumb like putting a ground hog on the protection list and crossbows for handicap only! or you can keep a gun in you car but no bullet in the chamber or mag. then what good is it?.

hipoint

October 20, 2013, 10:13 PM

I get the state wildlife officers out here pretty regularly for depredation permits on the farm. One time they told me they had been petitioning the state to ease some of our restrictions because their biological data that the laws are based on, was from the 1970's! They stated that the lawmakers had no clue about how overpopulated the deer were around here due to this outdated data.

At least around here the wildlife officers know what's going on, but that doesn't mean they don't enforce the laws they're hired to. It is comforting to know that they are actually fighting to ease the restrictions on our local hunters though.

jmr40

October 21, 2013, 07:34 AM

Who comes up with this stuff?
__________________

Your state lawmakers, most who don't have a clue about hunting. Then they force game wardens to enforce some pretty stupid laws they don't want to enforce. I have several friends who work for the GA Game & Fish dept. They hate some of these laws as much as you and I, and in as many cases as possible look the other way.

At one time the regs simply said a shotgun had to be limited to 3 rounds. That made no sense for deer hunters when there was no mag limit on rifles. The law was changed to read 5 rounds. Still stupid when I can legally hunt with a 30 round AR and Mossberg shotguns hold 5+1 and technically are illegal to remove the plug on.

Things are getting better here in GA. Many of the stupid laws have changed in recent years because the game and fish dept has taken their complaints straight to lawmakers. BUt we still have a few.

alsaqr

October 21, 2013, 08:22 AM

Oklahoma had one of the craziest game laws ever. It allowed livestock owners to trespass on the private property of others while "looking for their cows". When accosted for trespassing during deer season; they were always armed with a rifle "because of the wild hogs".

Finally, the OK legislature changed that stupid law. Now the livestock owner must get permission before searching for livestock on the property of others.

25cschaefer

October 21, 2013, 08:59 AM

MT forbids electronic devices on bows; no luminocks, lighted sights or rangefinders. All these things seem like they would result in less wounded/lost game.

Outlaw Man

October 21, 2013, 08:59 AM

I'd add the bans on hunting with suppressors. Poachers don't care if they're banned or not, and most of them probably don't even use them.

303tom

October 21, 2013, 09:47 AM

I don`t think Missouri has any of them stupid regs., except maybe being able to hunt deer with a .25 cal. pistol.................

courtgreene

October 21, 2013, 10:42 AM

You can bow hunt on Sunday, but you can't hunt with a gun on Sundays. That one irks me the most. But here, state laws are actually pretty great. It's local (county) regulations that drive me up the wall!

627PCFan

October 21, 2013, 10:49 AM

Id like to be able to use rifles 22/17hmrs to hunt residence/nusance geese. Hunters need an advantage during those seasons. Out here theres too many private properties/land not safe for hunting that residence the geese hide in during resident season and it effectively negates any advantage hunters have at actually doing the population control.

Geno

October 21, 2013, 10:58 AM

Hillsdale County here in Michigan prohibits hunting on Sundays.

Geno

MCgunner

October 21, 2013, 11:37 AM

I've never understood why, during dove season, I can shoot number 7.5 lead shot over a corn or sorghum field, then when goose season comes around, I have to use non-toxic shot. STUPID. We dare not complain, we know what will happen, they'll mandate non-toxic shot for doves. :rolleyes:

Patocazador

October 21, 2013, 03:21 PM

"Splain to me" why you can shoot snipe over water with lead shot but not ducks or coots. Also, getting 'written up' for having a slug in your possession while duck hunting. Just WHO tries to shoot ducks with slugs????????????

Florida's muzzleloading season on some WMAs doesn't allow bows or crossbows .. ONLY muzzleloaders.

yzguy87

October 21, 2013, 03:35 PM

I think it's dumb that we can hunt with handguns chambered in strait walled cartridges 357 caliber or larger with a minimum of at least a 5" barrel but not a rifle that's chambered in the same pistol legal calber:banghead:

351 WINCHESTER

October 21, 2013, 04:00 PM

The reason you can't have slugs with you when duck hunting is the possibility of accidentally putting one in your gun. Same reason you can't hunt turkeys with rifles anymore on public land.

Ranger Roberts

October 21, 2013, 04:32 PM

In PA we can't hunt with a semi auto rifle and semi auto shotguns are only allowed to be used on waterfowl. Also we can't hunt on Sundays because I assume most of our wildlife attends church.

ldlfh7

October 21, 2013, 05:39 PM

In Missouri you can hunt deer with a cap and ball revolver over 40 cal during the alternative season yet you can't use buckshot during any season. Buckshot seems a lot more effective than a cap and ball... Go figure

Art Eatman

October 21, 2013, 06:45 PM

Sunday "blue laws" are not all gone away. It was not until the 1960s in Texas that stores could be open on Sunday. In some states, as noted above, hunting regulations still suffer.

Other laws and regulations can come from the politics of "I think..." or "I heard..." and "My grand-daddy..." and other such non-fact.

Overall, things have improved, but there is still a long way to go in some states.

I've not checked for some years, but in Georgia you need a Philadelphia lawyer to figure out how to be legal when hunting coyotes. In Texas? However and whenever and with whatever you want.

buck460XVR

October 21, 2013, 07:09 PM

There are some laws here in Wisconsin that are dumb like putting a ground hog on the protection list and crossbows for handicap only! or you can keep a gun in you car but no bullet in the chamber or mag. then what good is it?.

Actually, the bill passed one house last month making crossbows legal for everyone, but was not passed in time to be instituted this year. You can have a loaded gun in the car, but it has to be a handgun and if you do not have a CWC license, it cannot be concealed in anyway. The deal with not allowing long guns to be loaded in a vehicle is for obvious reasons.

303tom

October 22, 2013, 12:23 AM

In Missouri you can hunt deer with a cap and ball revolver over 40 cal during the alternative season yet you can't use buckshot during any season. Buckshot seems a lot more effective than a cap and ball... Go figure
You can (NOT) use buckshot in the state of Missouri, Because it fires more than a single projectile per discharge !............

Davek1977

October 22, 2013, 05:41 AM

Same reason you can't hunt turkeys with rifles anymore on public land.

Thats actually a state law, and is far from universally true. There is no law against using a rifle to hunt turkeys on ANY land in South Dakota

bainter1212

October 22, 2013, 09:07 AM

Here in CA you cannot have a centerfire sidearm on you while bowhunting. Of course, the law specifies centerfire so any rimfire round is OK.....??!!

Most law enforcement will still hassle you for carrying a rimfire.....can't blame them.....the law being so vague and all.

Patocazador

October 22, 2013, 09:32 AM

Here in CA you cannot have a centerfire sidearm on you while bowhunting. Of course, the law specifies centerfire so any rimfire round is OK.....??!!

Most law enforcement will still hassle you for carrying a rimfire.....can't blame them.....the law being so vague and all.
What? And I thought that Califawnia was the voice of reason when it came to gun laws. ;)

Hunterdad

October 22, 2013, 02:09 PM

In my county, you can't use a rifle....shotgun only to hunt deer. But....I can use a T/C Contender handgun in .30/30. Never understood that.

plumberroy

October 22, 2013, 07:27 PM

I think it's dumb that we can hunt with handguns chambered in strait walled cartridges 357 caliber or larger with a minimum of at least a 5" barrel but not a rifle that's chambered in the same pistol legal calber:banghead:
The law here in Ohio that gets me even more than that. Is we can't deer hunt with a rifle even in a pistol round , But I can legally hunt squirrel and rabbits with a 460 weatherby??????
Roy

paintballdude902

October 22, 2013, 08:01 PM

You can bow hunt on Sunday, but you can't hunt with a gun on Sundays. That one irks me the most. But here, state laws are actually pretty great. It's local (county) regulations that drive me up the wall!

heck there was no hunting on sunday at all until 2-3 years ago. and even now its only bow hunting on private land.

22250Rem

October 22, 2013, 08:05 PM

Here's what the geniuses in NY state came up with concerning implement descriptions for big game hunting with a handgun: " ANY CENTERFIRE PISTOL OR REVOLVER. BARREL LENGTH MAY NOT EXCEED 16 INCHES". So according to that I could legally go deer hunting with something like a .380 or .25 ACP pistol. I wonder who was responsible for that one? ( It's on page 26 of of the hunting & trapping guide under "Implement Descriptions" if any of you NYS guys haven't noticed it).

MustGoFaster

October 23, 2013, 10:10 AM

MN used to have restrictions on pistol calibers (minimum cartridge length), but now it's just anything center fire. Not sure I care, not like I'm going to go out with a 9mm to kill a deer.

yzguy87

October 23, 2013, 10:28 AM

"The law here in Ohio that gets me even more than that. Is we can't deer hunt with a rifle even in a pistol round , But I can legally hunt squirrel and rabbits with a 460 weatherby??????"

My next squirrel rifle my be a 308 or 30-06:rolleyes:

blue32

October 23, 2013, 01:27 PM

I could use a 25acp on a bear but I can't use 17 remington or any centerfire on small game.

MrWesson

October 23, 2013, 02:08 PM

Required safety class for anyone under 35. As if 35 is the magic number for responsibility.

Require it for everyone I say.

In the national forest you must hunt with a rimfire or shotgun during small game but they include boar in this category. Shooting boar with a .22lr? PASS

351 WINCHESTER

October 23, 2013, 09:31 PM

Davek1977, I should have stated this law applies to Fl.

MCgunner

October 23, 2013, 09:39 PM

Here in CA you cannot have a centerfire sidearm on you while bowhunting. Of course, the law specifies centerfire so any rimfire round is OK.....??!!

Hmm, good excuse to carry my Ruger Old Army loaded to the gills with 777 and a 220 cast hollowpoint. :D

PhotoBiker

October 23, 2013, 09:46 PM

Jason, I'd support striking down that Sunday law, any chance we can get it reversed by next Sunday?

I not a big fan of the 20 gauge limit on wild turkeys in. Maine either, my son isn't quite ready for a 20 gauge.

jrdolall

October 23, 2013, 10:12 PM

Just try to understand Alabama's new law about the use of supplemental feeding during deer season. There's nothing like a clear cut law with no grey areas and no interpretation.

Basically it is legal to use "bait" so long as the bait is at least 100 yards from the hunter and is out of the "line of sight" of the hunter either by natural vegetation or terrain features. i understand this part as it keeps people from pouring a bag of corn behind a hay bale and claiming it is "out of sight".

However......it can still be considered "baiting" if the authorities determine that the feed in the area is being used to draw deer by the hunter. Excuse me! I can put a corn feeder in the middle of a pine thicket 250 yards away from my stand and in a place that is only visible from a helicopter and it is still possible, even likely, that a deer could walk past me on the way to the feeder.

seriously, what fun is it if I can't go hunting with my 17 pounds 22LR on sunday with 25 round mag and heatseaking, rangefinding reflex sight?

Jason_W

October 24, 2013, 06:09 AM

Jason, I'd support striking down that Sunday law, any chance we can get it reversed by next Sunday?

I've read that there have been multiple attempts to change it over the years and each time it failed based on arguments that made no real sense.

morcey2

October 24, 2013, 11:17 AM

Personally, I don't hunt or fish on Sunday for religious reasons, but making it illegal to hunt on Sunday is one of the dumbest things I've heard in quite a while.

Matt

Patocazador

October 24, 2013, 02:04 PM

Just try to understand Alabama's new law about the use of supplemental feeding during deer season. There's nothing like a clear cut law with no grey areas and no interpretation.

Basically it is legal to use "bait" so long as the bait is at least 100 yards from the hunter and is out of the "line of sight" of the hunter either by natural vegetation or terrain features. i understand this part as it keeps people from pouring a bag of corn behind a hay bale and claiming it is "out of sight".

However......it can still be considered "baiting" if the authorities determine that the feed in the area is being used to draw deer by the hunter. Excuse me! I can put a corn feeder in the middle of a pine thicket 250 yards away from my stand and in a place that is only visible from a helicopter and it is still possible, even likely, that a deer could walk past me on the way to the feeder.

Leaving a law up to that much "interpretation" is asinine.
Basically, they are saying,"You're going to get a ticket."
It appears that baiting is still illegal if you do it but not illegal if you don't know it's there; or "We can write you up anytime we want."

What's hard to figure about that?? ;)

fordfan485

October 24, 2013, 02:56 PM

In VA the minimum caliber for deer is .23 cal or above, which means no .223 :banghead:

plumberroy

October 24, 2013, 05:27 PM

"The law here in Ohio that gets me even more than that. Is we can't deer hunt with a rifle even in a pistol round , But I can legally hunt squirrel and rabbits with a 460 weatherby??????"

My next squirrel rifle my be a 308 or 30-06:rolleyes:
I have used a 30-30 A.I. with trapper loads 113 cast bullet@1100 fps.

matrem

October 24, 2013, 08:00 PM

I think it's dumb that we can hunt with handguns chambered in strait walled cartridges 357 caliber or larger with a minimum of at least a 5" barrel but not a rifle that's chambered in the same pistol legal calber
Or explained another way:
Our Ohio lawmakers have deemed that we can use use straight walled .357 diameter or larger rounds to hunt deer with, we just can't have a shoulder stock on it to help us hit closer to where we're aiming.

Robbins290

October 25, 2013, 05:48 AM

I live in maine. I dont like the sunday hunting law, i dont see how its going to hurt anything. The crossbow law is on there because they think its shoots like a rifle. Because of the trigger and stock

Jason_W

October 25, 2013, 08:24 AM

I live in maine. I dont like the sunday hunting law, i dont see how its going to hurt anything. The crossbow law is on there because they think its shoots like a rifle. Because of the trigger and stock

I'd never fight for allowing crossbows during the regular archery season (even though it can be argued that crossbows offer little advantage over modern compound bows). I know that one would be a non-starter.

What has never made any sense to me is the fact crossbows are prohibited during the muzzleloader season when modern muzzle loaders offer superior ballistics to many metallic cartridge rounds.

tahunua001

October 25, 2013, 12:17 PM

What has never made any sense to me is the fact crossbows are prohibited during the muzzleloader season when modern muzzle loaders offer superior ballistics to many metallic cartridge rounds.
WHAT?
so you are telling me that I am more likely to kill an elk at 200 yards with a 50 caliber muzzle loader than I am with a 300 weatherby mag?
I'm sorry but that's preposterous.

even if you drop in standard muzzle loader ranges I would much rather take a 416grain hollow point cast bullet from a 45/70 at 50 yards than I would a 425gr fired from a 54 caliber muzzle loader.

Robbins290

October 25, 2013, 12:43 PM

I agree jason. I wouldnt vote to allow crossbows during archery season. I also think that you are allowed to hunt white tails with a 22 magnum. Which is a very poor choice.

Jason_W

October 25, 2013, 01:02 PM

WHAT?
so you are telling me that I am more likely to kill an elk at 200 yards with a 50 caliber muzzle loader than I am with a 300 weatherby mag?
I'm sorry but that's preposterous.

even if you drop in standard muzzle loader ranges I would much rather take a 416grain hollow point cast bullet from a 45/70 at 50 yards than I would a 425gr fired from a 54 caliber muzzle loader.

I said many, not all. Scoped, modern, muzzleloaders firing a ballistic tipped projectile can break 2,000 f/s at the muzzle. Scoped, with the proper amount of powder, they are 200 yard deer guns.

No, they're not going to beat a .270 in terms of trajectory, but they will shoot flatter than a 30/30 or 45/70 in many instances.

That said, my post wasn't about rifle v. muzzleloader ballistics. It's about how it's asinine to allow what is essentially a really slow to reload modern rifle during muzzleloader season, but not a crossbow, which has a responsible range of 35-40 yards for big game.

jrdolall

October 25, 2013, 01:29 PM

If you shoot a cross bow you will find that the effective range for ethical harvest is probably lower than that of most modern compound bows. It is easier to point and shoot but I don't feel any more comfortable shooting a crossbow at 50 yards than I do a regular bow. I use both during archery season because I am old and some morning my shoulders just won't let me shoot the compound. I am no more successful with the crossbow than with the compound and it has been legal here in Alabama for several years now. I haven't seen any figures but I would be surprised if the numbers taken during archery season have changed a bit since they began allowing crossbows for every hunter instead of just medical reasons.

Jason_W

October 25, 2013, 03:01 PM

you shoot a cross bow you will find that the effective range for ethical harvest is probably lower than that of most modern compound bows.

I've been reading up on crossbows, and most people familiar with them echo your conculsions.

Admittedly, it's the cool factor that attracts me to them more than their practicality.

jmr40

October 26, 2013, 10:09 AM

WHAT?
so you are telling me that I am more likely to kill an elk at 200 yards with a 50 caliber muzzle loader than I am with a 300 weatherby mag?
I'm sorry but that's preposterous.

That isn't what he said. He said some muzzle loaders were more effective than MANY metallic cartridges. Your 300 mag is clearly better than a .50 calber muzzle loader. But the muzzle loader would be more effective than a 22 Hornet, 25 ACP, or 9mm etc., which may be legal there.

98Redline

October 29, 2013, 02:22 PM

In our special regulations areas of PA you are limited to shotgun only.

So a 3 1/2" fully rifled 12 ga slug gun shooting a 1 3/8 oz. slug at 1800+ fps is perfectly legal but a 44 magnum revolver with a 300gr slug at 1200 fps is not.

Sebastian the Ibis

October 30, 2013, 12:25 AM

States should just sell ridiculous hunting permits as souvenirs. I'd buy a Florida Polar Bear, Unicorn or Chupacabra tag for $10.

Todd1700

October 30, 2013, 06:46 AM

I have never understood why you can plant a corn field or a green patch and legally hunt deer over it. But a corn feeder is illegal. What's the moral or ethical difference? In all cases it's bait placed in a specific location to lure game animals into bow or gun range. Either all of them should be illegal or none at all.

jrdolall

October 30, 2013, 08:31 AM

I have never understood why you can plant a corn field or a green patch and legally hunt deer over it. But a corn feeder is illegal. What's the moral or ethical difference? In all cases it's bait placed in a specific location to lure game animals into bow or gun range. Either all of them should be illegal or none at all.
I agree with this in reality but the law is probably based on the idea that many farmers plant crops on large portions of their land. If I couldn't hunt within 250 yards of corn or beans growing in a field then I couldn't hunt 5,000 acres my buddy has in Iowa.
As I said, I agree that MOST hunters(including myself) plant food plots strictly for the purpose of attracting wildlife for the purpose of shooting them. It seems that a one acre field of turnips and other greens planted in the middle of a pine thicket that just HAPPENS to have a box blind sitting next to it and serves no other agricultural purpose is the very definition of baiting. Heck I plant food plots in fire breaks because I have to harrow them anyway.

Reloadron

October 30, 2013, 09:20 AM

Overall here in Ohio the ODNR Division of Wildlife - Hunting (http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/HuntingandTrappingSubhomePage/tabid/6522/Default.aspx) does a pretty good job of defining hunting rules and regulations. Sunday hunting is now permitted and has been for a good number of years. The No Sunday Hunting rules were archaic and denied working people time to hunt during limited seasons, like the deer gun season which is only a week long. Deer gun means a shotgun with a slug, no rifles for deer in Ohio because the place is open and flat in many areas.

Anyway, all the hunting rules and regulations are well spelled out on the DNR website and changes are quickly incorporated.

Ron

Patocazador

October 30, 2013, 09:42 AM

States should just sell ridiculous hunting permits as souvenirs. I'd buy a Florida Polar Bear, Unicorn or Chupacabra tag for $10.
I already have a Wyoming Jackalope hunting license .. plus the jackalope I got. ;)

ETXhiker

October 30, 2013, 10:20 AM

In Texas, you can shoot feral hogs anytime, without a hunting license - as long as you leave the meat on the ground to rot. If you want to take it home and eat it, you need a hunting license. That one really frosts me. :banghead:

Wolfgang james

October 30, 2013, 11:03 AM

Here in nys deer may be taken by any centerfire rifle. So I can use a 17rem but not a 22mag?

KMatch

October 30, 2013, 11:12 AM

In Texas, you can shoot feral hogs anytime, without a hunting license - as long as you leave the meat on the ground to rot. If you want to take it home and eat it, you need a hunting license. That one really frosts me. :banghead:
Huh? I can't find that one. Do you have a source? I DO see a minor conflict, though... The hunting regs http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/cs_bk_k0700_284_2013_2014.pdf page 76/77 show a license required for all, yet another source http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/outdoor-annual/licenses/hunting-licenses-and-permits shows hogs as an exception, neither mentions a difference in license whether leaving or taking them. I'm no regular hunter, but do try to follow the laws and there's some room for error between the 2 guidelines.

HB

October 30, 2013, 05:50 PM

Deer gun means a shotgun with a slug, no rifles for deer in Ohio because the place is open and flat in many areas

Sounds like rifle country to me!
I've never really understood the shotgun only states. Most hunting accidents happen because a) an idiot shoots somebody after "mistaking" them for a deer or b) an idiot shoots a guy standing next to him because his finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been. Alcohol is usually involved.
Turkey hunting is by far the most dangerous type of hunting despite using shotguns with birdshot...

HB

Reloadron

October 30, 2013, 07:14 PM

Sounds like rifle country to me!
I've never really understood the shotgun only states. Most hunting accidents happen because a) an idiot shoots somebody after "mistaking" them for a deer or b) an idiot shoots a guy standing next to him because his finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been. Alcohol is usually involved.
Turkey hunting is by far the most dangerous type of hunting despite using shotguns with birdshot...

HB
When I mentioned open and flat which would be ideal for rifle I failed to mention a dense population. :(

Personally while I have hunted Ohio with hand gun I always would head to West Virginia for deer season. During my younger days I enjoyed the mountains and my rifles for deer hunting. Haven't hunted in years since my hunting buddy and dear friend in WV passed away. Getting old to hump mountains too. :)

Ron

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