I used my regular sauce that I use at market for my attempts. It is something like MM, at least in my opinion. If you have access to Classcio tomato products (from WalMart), I think they would make a decent sauce, at least in my opinion. You could add a few spices to the Classico tomato products if you like spices added. You can use the search function to look about the Classico tomato products.

The freezing of the dough for the MM#7 formulation is not necessary. Peter and I only did it that way to try and do what the MM commissary does.

I donít know what Peter will recommend, but I find Brer Rabbit mild flavor molasses or Grandmaís Original molasses works well in the MM#7 formulation, and at least in my area are fairly easy to find in supermarkets.

I donít know how to give you the weights to use in volume measurements. A cheap digital scale only is about 20.00 some dollars. That is what I use at home. If you are going to be doing experiments with pizzas from this forum on making different types of pizzas, that price isnít really bad, compared to purchasing many pizzas.

To add to wha Norma has already said, if you want to make a roughly two-day cold fermented MM clone dough, you might use about 0.45% IDY. As for the flour, you might want to look for the King Arthur bread flour in the supermarket. Since you don't have a scale, you might want to use the flour measuring method (often called the "Textbook" method) to measure out the amount of flour as shown in the King Arthur video at http://how2heroes.com/videos/dessert-and-baked-goods/bakers-tip-measuring-flour. An even better method--because it is more exact--is to use the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ to convert the flour weight in the MM#7 formulation to a volume measurement using the King Arthur bread flour in the Substance pull-down menu and the Textbook entry in the Measurement Method pull-down menu.

Well it turns out the kind of molasses I had in my house was Grandma's Original, so that worked out well.

I wasn't able to find any of the recommended tomato products, except for Classico Pasta sauce. I didn't get it because it already came mixed with spices and garlic and such, and my impression from this thread is that Mellow Mushroom only has light spice flavoring and relies more on the sweetness of the tomatoes. The only recipe for sauce I have, and have used, is a spice heavy one, so I'm going to try to modify it.

I like a thin sauce, so I put whatever the final product is through the blender first. But, in terms of tomato product type, would you folks recommend a mixture of paste and skinned tomatoes? Just regular sauce and whole tomatoes, none of the above?

And about what temperature should I cook at? I should have it done late tonight!

I'm afraid that you will have to do the best you can with the tomato paste and tomatoes, and spices. I think the more important thing for now is to just get an MM clone pizza under your belt and improve upon the sauce next time if you are happy with your results.

As far as bake temperature is concerned, I have been using around 500-525 degrees F with my Cordierite stone and electric oven. My bake time has been around 7-8 minutes. I go by the color of the top and bottom crusts as to when I should pull the pizza from the oven.

My tomato sauce at market almost tastes like MM sauce, but I am not sure what MM uses. I think their sauce is Escalon with basil and might be a paste, like my tomato sauce is a paste that I use for market.

I have found that Great Value tomato sauce and Great Value Tomato paste in combination also works well. I did a post to compare the results of using those two tomato products from Walmart at Reply 2 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9744.msg85554.html#msg85554 I use a much simpler method to make the sauce now, by adding the crushed garlic and herbs to olive oil, then microwaving in short amounts of time of about 1 minute, 30 seconds, 30 seconds. Be careful not to microwave too long because of the oil in a microwave. Add a little more Italian herbs, oregano, tiny amount of red pepper flakes, a tiny bit of sugar, a tiny amount of Kosher salt, some Parmesan cheese, and water to unthicken if needed, which it probably will need. I donít add the red onion anymore. There is no cooking of this sauce. It is left in the fridge for one day to develop the flavors. I donít use both commercial tomato products now, like I did in that above post for market. I only use the tomato product that is a paste.

I am not posting this to get you to try it, just for another option for you for a tomato sauce. If you decide to play around with the Great Value tomato sauce and Great Value Tomato Paste, you might like different amounts of the spices for your palate.

Member November also has a very nice pizza sauce if you are interested, but it does take many spices and I think you would have to use a Classico product.

Thank you for posting a link to Woodyís post. I put Woodyís post in the back of my mind and didnít recall it when I was posting. I donít know about you, but would think that Great Value tomato sauce and Great Value paste would compare somewhat the same to 6-in1 Crushed Tomatoes in Heavy Puree and Escalon Bonta Pizza Sauce with a few added spices. Maybe that is just me though. I donít want to try and push someone in the wrong directions in trying to make a MM sauce if they canĎt purchase the right sauces from Escalon.

When I came up with my Papa John's clone pizza sauces, I tried out the Wal-Mart Great Value tomatoes. In my opinion, they weren't as good as the Escalon 6-in-1s or the Stanislaus Tomato Magic fresh-pack tomatoes that I also tried but they would work if one does not have access to the Escalon 6-in-1s or the comparable Tomato Magic tomatoes. Today, I would go with one of the Classico tomato products that are also sold at Wal-Mart and are almost identical to the 6-in-1s. As you know (but Signus may not), the 6-in-1s and the Classico tomatoes are produced by entities that are both owned by Heinz.

When I came up with my Papa John's clone pizza sauces, I tried out the Wal-Mart Great Value tomatoes. In my opinion, they weren't as good as the Escalon 6-in-1s or the Stanislaus Tomato Magic fresh-pack tomatoes that I also tried but they would work if one does not have access to the Escalon 6-in-1s or the comparable Tomato Magic tomatoes. Today, I would go with one of the Classico tomato products that are also sold at Wal-Mart and are almost identical to the 6-in-1s. As you know (but Signus may not), the 6-in-1s and the Classico tomatoes are produced by entities that are both owned by Heinz.

Peter

Peter,

I would also go with the Classico tomato product if they can be found, if someone doesnĎt have access to Escalon commercial products. Maybe Signus might find the Classico tomato products sometime. You are right that Signus might not know that both products are products that are owned by Heinz.

I was just trying to give Signus an alternative to try if he canít find the Classico products.

Based on what another member (Woody) reported recently, I believe the product in the photo you posted is the Escalon Bonta Pizza Sauce with Basil: http://www.escalon.net/products/bonta-pizza-sauce.aspx. Some time ago, Mellow Mushroom indicated that there was water in their sauce. Companies like Escalon and Stanislaus, the top two processors of fresh-pack tomatoes, would rather that their customers not dilute their sauces but that is a fairly common practice among pizza operators.

The pizza itself was quite good. The dough was delicious, but I did not quite get it how I saw in all the pictures. I don't know if maybe I didn't add enough yeast or I didn't open it properly. My crust was not nearly as bulbous as some of the pictures I've seen. Nor was it very sweet, a bit sour if anything, but that wasn't really a problem.

I let one dough rise in the fridge for a day, the other for two and a half days. The longer rise did make the better dough, no real surprise there.

However, I feel like my sauce was really lacking. I had a pretty good sauce recipe that I used for the deep dish, and I used the same brand of sauce and paste for this pizza's sauce. My problem is that... no matter what I do with it, it always comes out tasting strongly of pasta sauce. It's not bad, but it's not the kind of sauce I usually taste on pizza. I'll be shopping around and experimenting from now on.

Anyway, with this out of the way now, I think I'm going to take more time the second time hunting for proper tomatoes and being more specific with my measurements.

Are you heating/cooking your sauce? You say "sauce recipe", you adding a lot of spices? Try this pizza with a pretty plain(just s&p and a'bit of oregano or basil), uncooked sauce and maybe you'll like it better.

The pizza itself was quite good. The dough was delicious, but I did not quite get it how I saw in all the pictures. I don't know if maybe I didn't add enough yeast or I didn't open it properly. My crust was not nearly as bulbous as some of the pictures I've seen. Nor was it very sweet, a bit sour if anything, but that wasn't really a problem.

I let one dough rise in the fridge for a day, the other for two and a half days. The longer rise did make the better dough, no real surprise there.

However, I feel like my sauce was really lacking. I had a pretty good sauce recipe that I used for the deep dish, and I used the same brand of sauce and paste for this pizza's sauce. My problem is that... no matter what I do with it, it always comes out tasting strongly of pasta sauce. It's not bad, but it's not the kind of sauce I usually taste on pizza. I'll be shopping around and experimenting from now on.

Anyway, with this out of the way now, I think I'm going to take more time the second time hunting for proper tomatoes and being more specific with my measurements.

Thanks again, as always, guys.

Signus,

It is good your pizza with the longer fermentation turned out well. I donít know where the sour taste would come from when molasses is used in the formulation. Did you have a scale to weigh out the flour, water and molasses? What brand of flour did you use?

Maybe you might want to look at the Classico Tomato products. There are many members that are now using them. If you look at the Classico Tomato Sauce thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16096.0.html you can see what some members think of the different Classico Tomato products for pizza. Some of the Classico products are like 6-in-1s, which is a great tomato sauce in my opinion.

I saw on facebook this picture of cheese bread at Mellow Mushroom at MM in Jacksonville. It also said under the picture: Have you noticed a difference in our cheese bread?! We are now using The French Pantry! Yummy!

I wonder if French Pantry is supplying all MM with their cheese bread and if the Nutrition Facts have now changed for MM cheese bread. I also am curious how long French Pantry has been supplying MM in Jacksonville with their cheese bread. I even wonder how MM of Jacksonville can be different in their food products, since MM does seem to control what different products MM locations sell.

I saw on facebook this picture of cheese bread at Mellow Mushroom at MM in Jacksonville. It also said under the picture: Have you noticed a difference in our cheese bread?! We are now using The French Pantry! Yummy!

I wonder if French Pantry is supplying all MM with their cheese bread and if the Nutrition Facts have now changed for MM cheese bread. I also am curious how long French Pantry has been supplying MM in Jacksonville with their cheese bread. I even wonder how MM of Jacksonville can be different in their food products, since MM does seem to control what different products MM locations sell.

French Pantry is located in Jacksonville, Florida.

Norma,

It is quite common for franchisors to give franchisees some latitude in sourcing products. Otherwise, it could be cost prohibitive to insist that franchisees source certain products only from certain suppliers who may be a great distance away. Franchisors also give franchisees latitude to make changes based on local tastes. For example, a BBQ sauce used by a South Carolina MM franchisee might be different than the one used by an MM franchisee in Texas. MM corporate no doubt has procedures in place for approving the use of local vendors.

I don't know how MM deals with variations in products from a Nutrition Facts standpoint. Some companies hedge by saying that products can vary by location. Another approach is to provide specs to local suppliers to use to be sure that the end product comports with the Nutrition Facts. Or maybe the Nutrition Facts are ignored in some cases or no one has raised the issue.

It is quite common for franchisors to give franchisees some latitude in sourcing products. Otherwise, it could be cost prohibitive to insist that franchisees source certain products only from certain suppliers who may be a great distance away. Franchisors also give franchisees latitude to make changes based on local tastes. For example, a BBQ sauce used by a South Carolina MM franchisee might be different than the one used by an MM franchisee in Texas. MM corporate no doubt has procedures in place for approving the use of local vendors.

I don't know how MM deals with variations in products from a Nutrition Facts standpoint. Some companies hedge by saying that products can vary by location. Another approach is to provide specs to local suppliers to use to be sure that the end product comports with the Nutrition Facts. Or maybe the Nutrition Facts are ignored in some cases or no one has raised the issue.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining that it is quite common for franchisors to give franchisees some latitude in sourcing products and why that is. I understand now.

Geeez, do you think maybe they could have chosen a 'lil better pizza pic to help out their cause...what were they thinking?!Pretty neat they have 80 bicycles available to borrow for local shopping though...

Geeez, do you think maybe they could have chosen a 'lil better pizza pic to help out their cause...what were they thinking?!Pretty neat they have 80 bicycles available to borrow for local shopping though...

Bob,

If you have facebook, or other members are interested, there is another picture of the Mellow Mushroom Bake Bus on the link below.

Different MM locations do have lots of neat artwork. I think I saw a picture at that MM location, (referenced in the link) that you could sit in a bus inside their pizzeria. That was on their facebook page.