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Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]Always have to be wary about players whose draft stock rises when no football is being played* . . . .[/quote] That means we'd have to be wary of every player in the draft whose draft stacking isn't falling .... while no football is being played.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that I don't think that a player's stock rises or falls with the NFL drafters too much based upon what happens after the college football season is over . . . . that's more of a media and a mock drafter thing.

Are there exception to this?* Yes -- a guy could have awful interviews,*a medical problem or an absolutely horrific workout that could affect his stock in the mind of*NFL teams, but I don't think that a player's stock will rise in NFL circles all that dramatically if he runs a 4.45 when he was expected to run a 4.6 . . . . . . .*[/quote]

It might not be your opinion but in actuality this happens every year with a lot of players.

Combine 40 yard times have made/brteak draft stocks. I don't agree with the thinking (in that I agree with you) but it does happen.

Stephen Hill was a borderline 4th round prospect after the 2011 bowl games.

He's now a borderline 1st round prospect.

All based on the Combine.

I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]Always have to be wary about players whose draft stock rises when no football is being played . . . .[/quote] That means we'd have to be wary of every player in the draft whose draft stacking isn't falling .... while no football is being played.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that I don't think that a player's stock rises or falls with the NFL drafters too much based upon what happens after the college football season is over . . . . that's more of a media and a mock drafter thing.

Are there exception to this? Yes -- a guy could have awful interviews,a medical problem or an absolutely horrific workout that could affect his stock in the mind ofNFL teams, but I don't think that a player's stock will rise in NFL circles all that dramatically if he runs a 4.45 when he was expected to run a 4.6 . . . . . . .

[/quote] It might not be your opinion but in actuality this happens every year with a lot of players. Combine 40 yard times have made/brteak draft stocks. I don't agree with the thinking (in that I agree with you) but it does happen. Stephen Hill was a borderline 4th round prospect after the 2011 bowl games. He's now a borderline 1st round prospect. All based on the Combine.[/quote]

What are you basing this on? Media projections and mock drafts? Because none of us really know how much these off-season things are affecting evaluations in actual NFL draft rooms. My guess is that there is some effect, but not nearly the effect claimed by the media and/or mock drafts . . . . .

Do you think that Fleener running a 4.45 rather than a 4.6 actually moved him up from a second round pick to a mid first round pick in NFLdraft rooms? My guess is that if heis currently viewed as a mid-first round pick in NFL draft rooms, it is becausehe was viewed that way long before his Pro Day . . . not because he ran .1 second faster than he was projected to run . . . . .

Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]Always have to be wary about players whose draft stock rises when no football is being played . . . .[/quote] That means we'd have to be wary of every player in the draft whose draft stacking isn't falling .... while no football is being played.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that I don't think that a player's stock rises or falls with the NFL drafters too much based upon what happens after the college football season is over . . . . that's more of a media and a mock drafter thing.

Are there exception to this? Yes -- a guy could have awful interviews,a medical problem or an absolutely horrific workout that could affect his stock in the mind ofNFL teams, but I don't think that a player's stock will rise in NFL circles all that dramatically if he runs a 4.45 when he was expected to run a 4.6 . . . . . . .[/quote]

It might not be your opinion but in actuality this happens every year with a lot of players.

Combine 40 yard times have made/brteak draft stocks. I don't agree with the thinking (in that I agree with you) but it does happen.

Stephen Hill was a borderline 4th round prospect after the 2011 bowl games.

He's now a borderline 1st round prospect.

All based on the Combine.[/quote]

I do not agree regarding Hill. Saying his 40 is responsible for his rising is just not true.

Actually, it was strongly rumored that Hill would run fast. I believe Mayock even said this. However, it was his entire combine that had jaws dropping. This kid put together 1 of the best combine performances ever. He ran among the top 10 fastest 40's ever. He jumped an astounding 39 inches, remarkable considering his size. He blew away the previous combine record for the 10 yards split, and he jumped the 3rd best broad jump ever.

Certainly, when you consider "explosion" is measured by a combination of broad jump, vertical leap and 10 yard split, you have to come to the conclusion he might be the most explosive athletes ever recorded at the combine. The only other could say was better is Calvin Johnson, and thats not even a given, not when you see how he ran 10 yard split faster than the previous record holder(CJ) by an astounding .2 seconds(that is a HUGE amount for 10 yards, about the same difference between CJ and an Marvin Austin)

Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="GMENAGAIN"]Do you think that Fleener running a 4.45 rather than a 4.6 actually moved him up from a second round pick to a mid first round pick in NFL*draft rooms?[/quote]

Absolutely I do. Fleener was behind Dwayne Allen in TE rankings (and Orson Charles if you go by Mayock) ... which put him as a mid to late 2nd round projection.

After his Pro Day he is now being talked about being not only a first rounder but a MID first rounder? Coincidence?

I mean this happens every year (in both directions) with a ton of players (most in fact). Some of it is fairly righteous (I mean the Combine DOES serve a purpse) but since it's one of the last major measuring sticks before the draft, it tends to sway a lot of draft boards in short order.

Having said that, I can't say that I know what a teams' draft board looks like in January, but I do know that there draft boards change right up to the draft (or at last until after all the Pro Days are done which is essentially the same thing).

Why do you think Pro Days are held in late March, early April?

I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]Always have to be wary about players whose draft stock rises when no football is being played* . . . .[/quote] That means we'd have to be wary of every player in the draft whose draft stacking isn't falling .... while no football is being played.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that I don't think that a player's stock rises or falls with the NFL drafters too much based upon what happens after the college football season is over . . . . that's more of a media and a mock drafter thing.

Are there exception to this?* Yes -- a guy could have awful interviews,*a medical problem or an absolutely horrific workout that could affect his stock in the mind of*NFL teams, but I don't think that a player's stock will rise in NFL circles all that dramatically if he runs a 4.45 when he was expected to run a 4.6 . . . . . . .*[/quote]

It might not be your opinion but in actuality this happens every year with a lot of players.

Combine 40 yard times have made/brteak draft stocks. I don't agree with the thinking (in that I agree with you) but it does happen.

Stephen Hill was a borderline 4th round prospect after the 2011 bowl games.

He's now a borderline 1st round prospect.

All based on the Combine.[/quote]

I do not agree regarding Hill. Saying his 40 is responsible for his rising is just not true.

Actually, it was strongly rumored that Hill would run fast. I believe Mayock even said this. However, it was his entire combine that had jaws dropping. This kid put together 1 of the best combine performances ever. He ran among the top 10 fastest 40's ever. He jumped an astounding 39 inches, remarkable considering his size. He blew away the previous combine record for the 10 yards split, and he jumped the 3rd best broad jump ever.

Certainly, when you consider "explosion" is measured by a combination of broad jump, vertical leap and 10 yard split, you have to come to the conclusion he might be the most explosive athletes ever recorded at the combine. The only other could say was better is Calvin Johnson, and thats not even a given, not when you see how he ran 10 yard split faster than the previous record holder(CJ)* by an astounding .2 seconds(that is a HUGE amount for 10 yards, about the same difference between CJ and an Marvin Austin)

[/quote]

You really think a receiver in a triple opton offense that had 49 receptions in his whole college career was talked about as being a first round talent?

Prior to the Combine, he was projected as going anywhere from the late 2nd round to the 4th round.

Now he's a borderline first round pick since the Combine.

The majority of which was based around his 40 time (plenty of teams draft one route receivers early).

Having said that, while Stephen Hill has all the measurables in the world, he has only mediocre hands (big part of why he was a 4th round prospect a few weeks ago).

P.S. - How did that amazing split work out for CJ? Lol.

I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]Always have to be wary about players whose draft stock rises when no football is being played . . . .[/quote] That means we'd have to be wary of every player in the draft whose draft stacking isn't falling .... while no football is being played.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that I don't think that a player's stock rises or falls with the NFL drafters too much based upon what happens after the college football season is over . . . . that's more of a media and a mock drafter thing.

Are there exception to this? Yes -- a guy could have awful interviews,a medical problem or an absolutely horrific workout that could affect his stock in the mind ofNFL teams, but I don't think that a player's stock will rise in NFL circles all that dramatically if he runs a 4.45 when he was expected to run a 4.6 . . . . . . .[/quote]

It might not be your opinion but in actuality this happens every year with a lot of players.

Combine 40 yard times have made/brteak draft stocks. I don't agree with the thinking (in that I agree with you) but it does happen.

Stephen Hill was a borderline 4th round prospect after the 2011 bowl games.

He's now a borderline 1st round prospect.

All based on the Combine.[/quote]

I do not agree regarding Hill. Saying his 40 is responsible for his rising is just not true.

Actually, it was strongly rumored that Hill would run fast. I believe Mayock even said this. However, it was his entire combine that had jaws dropping. This kid put together 1 of the best combine performances ever. He ran among the top 10 fastest 40's ever. He jumped an astounding 39 inches, remarkable considering his size. He blew away the previous combine record for the 10 yards split, and he jumped the 3rd best broad jump ever.

Certainly, when you consider "explosion" is measured by a combination of broad jump, vertical leap and 10 yard split, you have to come to the conclusion he might be the most explosive athletes ever recorded at the combine. The only other could say was better is Calvin Johnson, and thats not even a given, not when you see how he ran 10 yard split faster than the previous record holder(CJ) by an astounding .2 seconds(that is a HUGE amount for 10 yards, about the same difference between CJ and an Marvin Austin)

[/quote]

You really think a receiver in a triple opton offense that had 49 receptions in his whole college career was talked about as being a first round talent?[/quote]

Did I say that? I said the 40 wasnt the only reason he was now a 1st rounder as you imply. My point, which I made quite clearly if you bothered to read, was that it was the fact that he not only ran a good 40 but he perhaps had the best total combine show of athleticism ever, or at least a top 2 showing.

[quote user="Kruunch"] P.S. - How did that amazing split work out for CJ? Lol.[/quote]

LOL youself by "CJ" I meant CHRIS JOHNSON, not CJ Spiller. So, answer your own question please...how did that 10 yard split, which Stephen hill demolished by .2 seconds, work out for Chris Johnson?

Re: Fleener runs a 4.45 at pro day

[quote user="BluGiantPies"]Sadly I think hill goes between 17 and 25. Would love to have him though. One thing is for sure were drafting a wide out in the top three who it is I dunno but with our scouts talking to hill, randle, sanu, quick and child's I deff think were taking one. That tells me the front office doesn't think jerrnigan can cut it as the z and I agree with them. I wanna see jerrnigan as our third down back like the Vikings did with harvin or the chiefs do with mccluster I think he would excel in that role and he played some RB in college just like harvin[/quote]
for sure spending a 1-3 round pick on a WR??
you wanna bet on that?