I'm sure Charles will take note of the fact that you completely ignored his test. How are we to trust your expertise in the matter of Hebrew
translation when you cannot rise to such a simple challenge? Your premise in this thread has just been obliterated by those more knowledgeable than
yourself. I suggest you withdraw to your drawing board and cease this tomfoolery.

Restate the Challenge. I guess I did not see it. Link the post that obliterates the OP and quote my reply.

Your first link verifies that Aleph is Ox (Strength). Your second verifies that Ben is Son (Aleph Nun). Those ARE the Hebrew letters used. Your
last link shows the actual word Strength, which is Yoke. From a Hebrew Lexicon, Word 1012, we get this. Lamed Aleph is Yoke. The Aleph, As I stated
is strength. The yoke is the Lamed (Shepherd's Staff). What does the Bible call the Shepherd? That would be the Son of God. What does the Lexicon
define as the Lamed Aleph?

"“The yoke is understood as a Staff on the shoulders.” We can also see this in the depictions of Christ carrying the lamb (Adam). The Lexicon
points out that, “often, two ox were yoked together. An older, more experienced ox would be teamed up with a younger, less experienced ox. The
older ox in the yoke is the “Strong Authority” who, through the yoke, teaches the younger ox.”

Again, where do you see that the OP has now somehow been denied by your links? They confirm my evidence.

I really don't believe that I posed a challenge to you. I know so little about Hebrew, modern or ancient, that I have no right to have an opinion on
the subject.

I thanked you for the link to an amazing site, and wondered whether you saw this as a teaching or attacking thread (I much prefer teaching threads,
especially from Christians), but other than that, everyone is my superior in this subject.

Your premise may possibly be founded on Theosophy saying that the Son is against the Father. The Gnostic view is the evil Demiurge and Lucifer
battling Him. Theistic Satanism would say this. Denying the Father is Met (Death). It is Mem Tav (no Aleph). The Son is Adam fallen and Adam risen
(Last Adam). The last Adam is the one who passed through the wilderness ahead of all the rest (The Shepherd). Job 19 reveals this:

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.”

The root of the trouble was in Adam. Who created Adam in Genesis 2? Who saves Humanity in the first century? The Son of God has been raised by God.
By this work, mankind is raised. The error is believing the lie. The lie says that the God of the OT is evil. What I have sown in the OP proves
the point that the Son is at the right hand of God.

The twisted version of the mysteries is what Enoch calls the worthless mystery.

"3 "You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless
ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth."
4 Say to them therefore: " You have no peace."'"

There is one God and one Son. The reason we see the twins (Abel Cain / Jacob Esau) is the duality within us all. We must choose the correct
reflection. There are two. For every Mystery, there is a counterfeit version. The Bible is the only version worth seeing by the Word it uses for
truth.

Provide links to any word I have mistranslated or misspelled in Hebrew. Again, all you need to do is quote me, then show a link backing up your
understanding of Hebrew. Are you trying to say Ma Hashem Shell ha (or ha'olam) there? May God Husk the. Really? Spell this in Hebrew letters.
While on that task, make sure to add links to how the OP is mistranslated. Give details.

I really don't believe that I posed a challenge to you. I know so little about Hebrew, modern or ancient, that I have no right to have an opinion on
the subject.

I thanked you for the link to an amazing site, and wondered whether you saw this as a teaching or attacking thread (I much prefer teaching threads,
especially from Christians), but other than that, everyone is my superior in this subject.

With respect,
Charles1952

Right. I got that. Another user misread your post and assumed you somehow challenged me. I was answer him. I realize you had a great reply.
Thanks.

Again, I'll call you out here and have you back your words with content and context. You have not demonstrated a lick of Hebrew to counter the OP.
You need to spell the words, then consult any Hebrew source you like to define the letters. No only do the Hebrews themselves define Aleph as Ox, the
letters have very specific meaning that can be read from any Jewish site showing them. All the letters also have a numeric value. I have not even
gone that direction, but I could. Further evidence is clearly found there as well. Truth is simple. Beginning, Middle and End. God is all three.
We are in the water of the middle (mem). Baptism is our immersion into that water for one purpose. To turn toward the future and away from our past.

Here is something I have stated on ATS before:

"According to Hebrew tradition, the past is in front and the future is behind. The present is a gift. The past is in front because we are facing
it. The future is behind because it has not happened for us yet. The word ‘aharit’ (End) comes after, later or behind. What is in front has
already happened. What is behind is yet to come."

We are immersed in the waters so we can turn toward the End. The end is TAV (Christ). Of course, "you must be born again." This End is the
Beginning for the one who see the Aleph again. Tav is necessary.

You were challenged by Cody, who is very familiar with the Hebrew language, and you failed to complete the challenge, which is quite at odds with the
expertise you pretended to have at the beginning of the thread - which we now know you don't have.

Truth is the fact that we keep no records of wrongs. God forgives. So do I. Truth requires us to see God from the beginning by the end. I stay
with the Truth I have shown from the OP. Google it to see if I am correct.

You were challenged by Cody, who is very familiar with the Hebrew language, and you failed to complete the challenge, which is quite at odds with the
expertise you pretended to have at the beginning of the thread - which we now know you don't have.

Truth is the fact that we keep no records of wrongs. God forgives. So do I. Truth requires us to see God from the beginning by the end. I stay
with the Truth I have shown from the OP. Google it to see if I am correct.

Bull. "God" keeps a record of every wrong that is ever committed. How else is he to judge us? Although I do wonder...does he keep a record of his own
wrongs? Or is he exempt by his status?

Truth is the fact that we keep no records of wrongs. God forgives. So do I. Truth requires us to see God from the beginning by the end. I stay
with the Truth I have shown from the OP. Google it to see if I am correct.

Bull. "God" keeps a record of every wrong that is ever committed. How else is he to judge us? Although I do wonder...does he keep a record of his
own wrongs? Or is he exempt by his status?

edit on 15-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

This is where we must look closely at the text. God is the Genesis 1 Creator. Lord is the Genesis 2 Creator of Adam and Adam is Man. Lord is the
Son of God, the one created by God. God is not the one choosing for the Son in the Wilderness, no more than the Son of God is the one Choosing for
the Sheep below. As above, so below. Christ is the Lamb of God. God is above the Lord of the OT. Until we get this straight, we will accuse the
God Most High of what the Son is choosing in the Wilderness.

Job 19, As I stated earlier, tells this:

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,[g]’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.[h]”

The topic is the redeemer. The root of the problem was in Adam. Christ is the last Adam (Son of God).

Just as God separated the Son from Himself to be raised by choice, so the Son of God releases us in to the material world to be raised by his
authority. In the end, what happens?

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a
life-giving spirit.

Again, what happens to our authority and where does the Son the give his?

1 Corinthians 15

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the
resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the
firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has
destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed
is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this
does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put
everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The process allows the Strength of Truth to be in all the multiplicity below, including the Son. He is the first to receive this strength. We follow
after the Shepherd. In order, we are first if we are last. We are last if we put our pride against God first. God must be our strength.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.