Kaputar will probably get more traffic this year cos the Warrumbungles got burnt. The next time I go up there I'm going to bring a mallet, a big shifter, a tyre iron, some glue and a good guidebook. Just in case if after climbing it I'm offended enough to do something about it. It sounds like the bolting is pretty extensive so it would take a few people doing the same thing to deter this guy from re-retrobolting.

Neil, there were a lot more bolts at Lindsey- the really offensive bits are the blatant retrobolting, and that has definitely appeared since we were there Oct long weekend 2011.
I'm not convinced its all the same person. There were about 3 newish bolted routes at Lindsey at Easter 2010 but they did not seem to impinge on existing routes or have much to offer in the way of trad protection and they climbed OK. The retrobolting of the routes I all mentioned seemed pretty new. I went there twice last year, in April and October but only visited Lindsey in October.

The Euglah bolting fairy has been going on for a lot longer, but I've not encountered any blatant retrobolts there (except above mentioned start of Fantastic Four, though you then have to still cross that slab without further pro for a while so I dont think the first bolt helps that much...) Some of the bolted aretes make really good routes and the increase in rap stations is generally helpful as a lot of the pines on top got burnt 10 years ago.The old chain belays are pretty manky now. I dont recall any bolts near trad placements. There was no "marking" that I noted as mentioned at the start of the thread, but that couldve occurred recently or I never went to that part.

Climboholic- I do think its better having a considered plan and would prefer the perpetrator to fix their own deeds if that can be arranged. If you have never climbed there than you really arent in the best position to judge (and the guide books are pretty confusing). If you do pull the hangers and hammer in the bolt please patch the hole with glue and rocks/ dirt. And maybe donate the hangers to Pulse so they can be reused.

The sports routes on the left side of the Governor were there in April 2012, but not in 2010. Personally I think an affront to a great wall.

I've tried to see if theres any further info on the Qld site as groups often head there for a trip, but doesnt sound like anyone there has admitted to bolting.

Robyn only makes it there once a year for a few days. Whilst he has done a lot of bolting there over the past few years, he'd have had to be busy for those few days to fit all the new stuff that appeared in between Vanessa's visits by the sounds of things.

Yes, my impression is there is more than one person bolting up there- the stuff that has been there a few years at a slow rate of appearance has been more "sympathetic" to the style of the area whereas the stuff in the last 12 months has been very unsympathetic.

> Posts containing extremely offensive language, blatant racism, sexual harassment, or out right personal attacks on other forum members are unacceptable. On the other hand, light hearted banter, general cursing & expletives, and heated, confrontational debate is fine.

For those running close to the line on this thread, respect the topic if you can't respect each other.

There are at least three parties bolting routes at Euglah. The arete left of Clampdown was bolted before Barley first visited the place in 2006. Ironically this was the climb that prompted him into his Euglah new routing frenzy. As Vanessa commented the routes are v good additions to a v good crag.Edge of Ecstasy (bolted by Barley, climbed by Fantini) and some of the mixed trad/bolt routes are as good as anything in the state. The man has an incredible legacy of (mainly bold) world class routes that started in the 60's in Yorkshire, 70's in S Africa and 80's onwards at Squamish and Skaha. I haven't seen The Governor bolting but I did tell him when I last saw him in 2010 that clip ups there wouldn't be tolerated by the climbing community in general. Whether he bolted the routes I don't know. But he has got form re a bolted route at Girraween. But that was chopped v promptly by a local activist.

On 22/01/2013 One Day Hero wrote:>On 22/01/2013 hero wrote:>>Perhaps for sentimental reasons this is saddest thread ever. Marking>climbs>>was always a tradition at Kaputar - given a lack of guidebooks (imported>>from New England) but it was mostly discreet. Scratching the grades of>>a climb (or are they just really crappy names) seems excessive.>>>>As the acknowledged scardy-cattest climber in Australia I am sorry that>>the Fantastic Four start has been bolted (being first ascentionist) cos>>it's the only route I ever pulled out my cojones on.>>>>As a result, I'm forced to conclude that modern sport climbers are a>bunch>>of limp d1cked pussies.>>>>Hero, don't just sit there being sad like a pussy, get out and do something>about it. The gridbolters are trying to take over everything, get out and>fight or you're just one more softc--k who sort of cared about something>but not enough to actually try to help.

Does this mean you are going to retro fill the chipped boulders at Black Range too?

I don't mind the old peg on The Idle Rich being replaced with a bolt (hopefully a hex-head?), but that sad list includes 4 of my other Lindsey routes that have been liquidated into clip-ups, and the rest of it is just as offensive. There's just no excuse. I presume on-one has had the gall to desecrate Aslan, or those bold routes on The Governor? The same should go for any route of any grade.

The fact is, those climbs were close to my technical limit then (still are) and were very satisfying achievements. (Btw 'The Idle Rich' was a deliberately sarcastic name, and unfortunately it has turned out to be prophetic.)

Putting all the thread comments together it sounds like the floodgates have opened at Kaputar, with restraint going out the window. It has to stop here. Reverse pressure needs to be applied. I'm an active climber but right out of the scene, so I'm not sure of the best strategy (or how to remove bolts cleanly). But I'd be happy to be involved in a 'corrective expedition'. I hope folks will keep discussing this problem and come up with an 'agreed' plan. Is it unusual that no-one has stuck out their neck on this thread to defend the bolting?

On a positive note, there was a bunch of us back then who realised that Kaputar had fantastic climbing (do you like bridging? who doesn't? Malice is a ripper Vanessa - but a soft touch eh?), so its nice that may other people are finding the same and enjoying the area's special (and diverse) delights. Its a climber's climbing area.

On 26/01/2013 ChossDog wrote:>OK. Now I'm angry. . .>>Putting all the thread comments together it sounds like the floodgates>have opened at Kaputar, with restraint going out the window. It has to>stop here. Reverse pressure needs to be applied.

Absolutely - And it is happening everywhere . . .
Grid bolting of new crags with no regard for the natural line -
Cracks being bolted because 'I have no idea . . .'
People with umpteen 'grid-bolted-closed-projects' for years (yeah right, as if)
Bold climbs being dumbed-down to spurt mentality . . .
People travelling further afield to f----up even more areas - new and old . . .

And Kaputar sounded like such a nice place to go to avoid all that - but no . . .

On 26/01/2013 ChossDog wrote:>I'm an active climber>but right out of the scene, so I'm not sure of the best strategy (or how>to remove bolts cleanly). But I'd be happy to be involved in a 'corrective>expedition'. I hope folks will keep discussing this problem and come up>with an 'agreed' plan. Is it unusual that no-one has stuck out their neck>on this thread to defend the bolting?

Ignoring Macca's "we're all doomed" over the top reply as per usual (have you never been there Macca?)

My suggestion - the bolts are expansion bolts, so reasonably easy to disable and disguise. At simplest just unscrew the nut, pocket the hanger and hammer the bolt into the rock with a hole punch. Hopefully the bolter drilled a deeper hole than the bolt and it will slip inside the rock. If this is the case, then use some Epoxy putty (Knead-It is a common brand) and patch the hole with mix of putty and crushed up local rock. The bolt and the damage should be almost invisible.

In my experience trying to extract the bolt will cause a lot more damage to the rock surface. Battery powered angle grinders are quick but always leave a few mm of bolt above the surface and scar the rock. Bad idea. Only use an angle grinder if you are removing stubborn glue-in rings or Ubolts. Most importantly do the chopping with a clear head and a plan. Don't let the red mist of fury cloud your actions and just start hitting them with a hammer like another member of this forum did recently at Point Perp! That just leaves an ugly mess.

Part B of your plan should be to publicly spread your actions as far and wide as you can. You need to let whoever has been doing it know that it won't be tolerated, and that you plan to police it in the future. Name and shame. State clear reason why you don't think it is on (even if you think that it should be obvious). A new climber, especially someone who may be a Narrabri local with little experience of mainstream climbing areas and ethics may not realize why it is so wrong. Put your name out there - chopping (or placing) bolts anonymously just breeds secrecy and contempt.

Good luck with it.

p.s. I don't think many would defend blatant wholesale retrobotling of established trad routes - even on this forum!

I probably won't get a chance to head Kaputar way until spring but would be happy to unbolt the retrobolted routes. I am trying to get in contact with Robin Barley via supertopo, but chances are he'll ignore me. Anyone got contact details for Fantini?

Ian- you got contacts in NPWS at Narrabri and see if they know much? I can ring them otherwise (just about well enough now to hold a conversation).

I also forgot to mention that there were some new lower offs at the power lines crag, and some newish bolts in direct starts to cracks higher up the wall- but no gridding or retrobolting evident when I visited there in 2011. (Found the rock at Powerlines to be softer and scarier than other areas, though maybe its cos thats the only place we got to climb that trip due to snow.)

I think its important to try and track down who put the sports routes on the Governor, who did the retrobolting and gridding at Lindsey and who did the chiselling at Euglah, and try and discuss ethics with them.....if we dont self regulate who could blame the NPWS for banning climbing there (sounds like there was historically a huge fight to keep climbing possible at the Governor). There is masses of potential on all the plugs out there and the option for adventure climbing for future generations needs to be kept open. (same as in the Bungles).

Lets not forget that Kaputar, The Governor in particular, has been subject to a climbing ban in the past, this sort of activity, especially marking the rock with large numbers, is likely to induce another ban, possibly permanent, again.