I would be interested to know how you come to those conclusions. Those seem like some pretty big assumptions.

Well, in order;
Why would the be at all friendly to humanity? If they're our peers technologically, then we're competition. The main reason to travel to another solar system would be resources, and we're also consuming resources. We aren't friendly with OURSELVES, and the one inevitable truth in evolution is that competition for resources is the core of the entire system. The only way they could be friendly with us is if they're entirely passive and uncompetitive, and a creature like that couldn't compete well enough to survive to begin with.

Why would they be in any way similar to us? We share about 97% of our DNA with a chimpanzee. We share about 60% of the same DNA as a chicken or fruit fly. We would share even less with an alien species. Even assuming that they'd be humanoid is baseless; ours is not an ideal shape for most things, as can be seen by the way hominids are relatively unique in this respect on the planet. About all you can expect for a technological sentient race is that they'd have some manipulator limbs, and some sensory ability. It's just as likely that they'd be ten-armed aquatic critters more similar to an octopus than a human, and who communicate primarily through variations in skin chromatophores. And even there I'm probably being too earth-centric in my predictions.

Open to communication? See above. We're primarily light and sound oriented. We speak, and use visual communication like writing. This is why we immediately went for observing the universe via the electromagnetic spectrum. This is also how things like SETI spend basically all their time trying to discover alien communication signals, in radio waves and the like. A race that evolved underground, however, may not have any visual orientation at all, and thus not use any kind of wave of beam communication whatsoever. The idea that mathematics is "the universal language" is a nice one, but we first need to recognize what we're seeing as a signal to begin with. That's a huge assumption. Some creatures on the Earth use magnetic or electromagnetic senses, or scent-based communication, or touch, etc.

People generally think "alien" means "little guy who looks like a hairless human kid". That's ridiculously unlikely. If we WERE to encounter a creature that looked like that, it would be more likely to be related to us somehow than to be truly alien. Sci-fi writers tend to shortchange the possibilities here, because it's hard to tell a story involving entities that are beyond easy understanding; unless your entire story is about that very difficulty, they tend to make them fairly human-ish just to simplify telling the story they want to tell. Even Star Wars is WAY too consistent and earth-centric in how they designed their "aliens".

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 06:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

I'd imagine any space faring civilization would have a fairly well established resource model... if they're able to direct their forces so well, they obviously transcended war on their own planet, meaning that resources were no longer an issue for them. Unless they're taking some last-ditch, stab-in-the-dark gamble for resources (in which case expending all the necessary resources to find ONE planet probably isn't a good idea,) I don't think "resources" are a very viable reason.

Who's to say they wouldn't view earth as a curiosity?

It's possible that, if their technology is superior enough, they'll just pillage the outer planets and leave us alone as a curiosity.

They also wouldn't bother hiding while they did so, though, for the same reason we don't try to hide from monkeys in the rain forest we're clearcutting.

The point is, at no point is there likely to be a beneficial contact for humanity. And most sci-fi movies that deal with alien invasions don't do the aliens justice; they have them land on Earth to duke it out with us for some ridiculous reason.

Probably one of the most realistic possibilities would be the Predator movie. No interest in communicating with us, at all. Vastly superior technology. They do their own thing and ignore us where possible.

Well if it is a missile and you didn't know that then it would be a UFO until identified.

But what you posted are examples of things which are and have been identified, and despite that information being commonly available, many people want there to be a mystery where none exists. There are countless examples of this on YouTube in particular.

Originally Posted by lockedout

I think you are getting UFO and aliens confused.

Not in the slightest.

Originally Posted by lockedout

UFO just mean unidentified flying object not aliens.

Indeed. Yet "believers" are frequently all too eager to unduly associate the two.

Originally Posted by lockedout

NASA has tons of UFO on video from space stations hubble telescope etc but that doesn't mean aliens.

People have made all sorts of misguided, uninformed claims about there being UFOs in NASA imagery or video. Those who do so, like we've seen in the videos you posted, not only don't understand what they're seeing -- more importantly, they're not looking for answers and they're jumping to unwarranted conclusions. That's the main problem here, and that's precisely what I'm talking about.

The only way they could be friendly with us is if they're entirely passive and uncompetitive, and a creature like that couldn't compete well enough to survive to begin with.

You're still assuming they're coming to earth for resources. Why not a sort of "zoological venture?" If you're going so far as to tie their drives to those of humans, you can't discredit an investigative one.

It's possible that, if their technology is superior enough, they'll just pillage the outer planets and leave us alone as a curiosity.

I don't imagine the "outer planets" have much in the way of any sort of unique resource. Hell, even our own planet, beyond liquid water and organic compounds, isn't exactly "unique." And even then we know water exists on other planets in frozen forms (they could create it if they were so inclined) and I highly doubt that a highly advanced space-faring civilization would fuel the entirety of its star-faring program on something like fossil fuels.

If we're to assume that these alien life forms are indeed intelligent, then I think it'd make the most sense to base their energy around something they know they could procure almost anywhere in the galaxy... the only thing that would be is solar energy.

Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-02-03 at 11:26 PM.

"Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen

you are right, but your being right makes you wrong. I have no doubt that they wouldn't resemble us in the slightest. That is a safe assumption. It's weather they would want to open communication or be hostile towards us. They are alien. you can ascribe human ideals to aliens...to include motivation.

People have made all sorts of misguided, uninformed claims about there being UFOs in NASA imagery or video. Those who do so, like we've seen in the videos you posted, not only don't understand what they're seeing -- more importantly, they're not looking for answers and they're jumping to unwarranted conclusions. That's the main problem here, and that's precisely what I'm talking about.

Not just people NASA themselves have classified them as UFO's.
I'm not saying aliens I'm saying UFO's

You're still assuming they're coming to earth for resources. Why not a sort of "zoological venture?" If you're going so far as to tie their drives to those of humans, you can't discredit an investigative one.

A zoological venture is a bad, bad thing for us. They'll want to poke around in us to figure out our biology, probably take a few for an exhibit/ongoing study, etc. It's a nightmare scenario, for us.

And again; it either costs them a freaking fortune in resources to make the trip, or they're so ridiculously ahead of us technologically speaking that we're as stupid, to them, as monkeys are, to us. In theory, we could make a generational ship that could survive interstellar travel; the tech's available, it just costs so enormously much that it's not worth it to us to do so, given the potential return. The big question is WHY they're making such a trip. If it's for kicks/exploration, we're an oddity and/or a pest, not an ally or enemy.

I don't imagine the "outer planets" have much in the way of any sort of unique resource.

I didn't mean anything unique, just that, if you need water for instance, Europa's as good a source as Earth, and there's no nasty biologicals to deal with. I'm not trying to imply special resources, I just mean basics; the gases you can harvest off Jupiter and such, things like water and various metals, etc. Any long-term voyage is going to be bringing the tech to refine such basics into whatever alloys and such you need.

They wouldn't come here and beeline for Earth, most likely. Not unless their goal was the elimination of a potential threat/competitor.

I am fairly confident there is life other live in the universe and I am also sure there is a spices able to travel at speeds that would allow them to come here, but why would they. When you pass a snail on the street do you stop to consider how intelligent it is? No it is a species that is far beneath you why waste your time with it? There is more chance of a person crushing it then actually caring enough to communicate with it. Odds are they would just pass us and not give a damn if they even pass us. I mean space is a massive place the odds of us running into them is fairly low. That been said it is possible and all the above may have happened there is just a real lack of evidence that would back that up

I'm not trying to ascribe human motivations to them. I'm looking at the overarching truth of life on this planet, which is the only example I can draw from. In every environment, life exists to make use of available resources, to propagate itself. That is the root "purpose" of life. Evolutionary forces allow for those creatures which better adapt to those environments and resources to thrive and propagate. As near as we can tell, any sentient creature is going to arise in a similar environment; competing with other creatures for resources, and out-adapting the competition to become the apex creature in their home ecosystems.

While other options are possible, they're not that likely. Evolution is a concept that exists pretty much independent of base biology; it doesn't matter which organism you're talking of, if it can adapt, it will, and thus evolution. If it can't, then it won't ever improve on itself enough to attain sentience in the first place.

A zoological venture is a bad, bad thing for us. They'll want to poke around in us to figure out our biology, probably take a few for an exhibit/ongoing study, etc. It's a nightmare scenario, for us.

Less of a nightmare scenario than a complete apocalyptic annihilation would be

And again; it either costs them a freaking fortune in resources to make the trip, or they're so ridiculously ahead of us technologically speaking that we're as stupid, to them, as monkeys are, to us. In theory, we could make a generational ship that could survive interstellar travel; the tech's available, it just costs so enormously much that it's not worth it to us to do so, given the potential return. The big question is WHY they're making such a trip. If it's for kicks/exploration, we're an oddity and/or a pest, not an ally or enemy.

We've spent fortunes on more idiotic things

I didn't mean anything unique, just that, if you need water for instance, Europa's as good a source as Earth, and there's no nasty biologicals to deal with. I'm not trying to imply special resources, I just mean basics; the gases you can harvest off Jupiter and such, things like water and various metals, etc. Any long-term voyage is going to be bringing the tech to refine such basics into whatever alloys and such you need.

The only issue with that is that we'd basically have to be "next in line" for the star systems they're munching through for resources... and, as we know of no habitable planets within any appreciably close distance to ours, you'd think that in the hundreds of thousands of years it took for them to reach ours they'd have thought to themselves "maybe there's a more efficient way of doing this..."

They wouldn't come here and beeline for Earth, most likely. Not unless their goal was the elimination of a potential threat/competitor.

If they see us as dumb monkeys, they probably wouldn't think that.

"Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen

Man... I really enjoy reading Endus, everything he says makes such a lot of sence.

Though, I think if aliens found us and are interested in us it will take them a lot of time to understand the human race or even to try to comunicate with it. And there are many spicies on earth maybe they or more interested on a bug, fish or other mammals maybe they even want to study some virus that is unique. We think we are the dominant being on this planet but on the eyes (if they have) on the aliens we could be wrong.

Less of a nightmare scenario than a complete apocalyptic annihilation would be

I wasn't trying to argue that apocalyptic annihilation was the only possible outcome. Just that mutually beneficial cooperation was so unlikely as to not be a reasonable expectation.

We've spent fortunes on more idiotic things

Not at the scale we're talking about.

If the US wanted to build the kind of ship I'm talking about, the cost would be in the hundreds of trillions, if not into quadrillions. It would likely not be possible without major international cooperation to the extent of bankrupting those nations involved in the project.

The only issue with that is that we'd basically have to be "next in line" for the star systems they're munching through for resources... and, as we know of no habitable planets within any appreciably close distance to ours, you'd think that in the hundreds of thousands of years it took for them to reach ours they'd have thought to themselves "maybe there's a more efficient way of doing this..."

Depends on what they're looking for. If they're looking for a habitable planet, their definition is quite possibly completely different from ours. They could also be extraplanetary; the kind of ship necessary for the journey wouldn't ever need to make planetfall, just top up on resources before moving on.

As for the distances; that was an earlier point of mine: the chance of any sentient life existing A> close enough to reach us and B> within the same narrow range of time for them to meet us when we're technological, is mind-bogglingly tiny.

Lister: Oh God, aliens... Your explanation for anything slightly peculiar is aliens, isn't it? You lose your keys - it's aliens. A picture falls off the wall - it's aliens. That time we used up a whole bog roll in a day, you thought that was aliens as well!

Rimmer: Well, we didn't use it all, Lister. Who did?

Lister: Rimmer, aliens used our bog roll?

Rimmer: Just 'cos they're aliens, doesn't mean they don't have to visit the little boys' room. Although they probably do something weird and alien-esque, like it comes out of the top of their heads or something.

If the US wanted to build the kind of ship I'm talking about, the cost would be in the hundreds of trillions, if not into quadrillions. It would likely not be possible without major international cooperation to the extent of bankrupting those nations involved in the project.

We spend a lot of money on "discovery." if this hypothetical race has such amazingly advanced technology so as to be able to traverse star systems while maintaining a net gain in resources, then I don't think it's that far flung of an idea that they would come specifically to our planet for its "oddness"

Depends on what they're looking for. If they're looking for a habitable planet, their definition is quite possibly completely different from ours. They could also be extraplanetary; the kind of ship necessary for the journey wouldn't ever need to make planetfall, just top up on resources before moving on.

In the second situation, they're basically wandering the galaxy "for the lulz," either because their home planet was destroyed, or they're explorers, or they're... space protestants, or some similar reason. And again, it would make the most sense for them to develop a ship that maintains itself with as few input resources as possible (as in, everything is recycled,) rather than hoping they find a planet to sap resources from in time before life support gives out.

Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-02-04 at 12:01 AM.

"Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen

Why wouldn't they be friendly. If we found a civilization somewhere out there, do you think we'd be hostile to them? Why would they be any different if they found us?

We're hostile to ourselves, and we at least have the commonality of being human between us. It would be orders of magnitude worse with an alien species, with whom we'd share no common ground whatsoever.

I voted aliens exist, but i don't think they'd be jerking around on earth crashing like idiots, running around naked, and doing stupid shit from the shadows wasting time with us humans. If they were advanced enough to manage to make it to earth from a billion miles away, they'd be advanced and smart enough to send probes and not crash and die and be generally stupid and do things like pulling scary movie jump scare shit by running from behind one tree to another like they do in stupid youtube videos.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?