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"$ay10"/Aquarius "The Aeon of Lucifer" - The High End of Weirdness

Even though Manson is considered to be a supreme erudite of pure logic somehow. It's odd that a lot of people who don't subscribe to the more cryptic, apocryphal, numerology, alchemy, astrological and paranormal talking points/artistic themes that he expresses seem to gravitate towards and embrace what he has to say very religiously. And very literally as well. Only he's more into mythologies and the high end of weirdness, if you want to call it that, than most of his fan base realize. Either that or they overlook it and/or assume that he's joking. This is going to be a thread for actual discussion. Not in my typical story telling/crypto-pseudo-whatever in-the-fuck-people say my threads are. Some are and some aren't designed to be that way. But there are times where I just think that some people are too stupid to see what I'm doing, so they call it "trolling". The composition of them anyway. So, l'll try a new method. Let's see how this works. Keep it basic and to the point. Here we go. I've used the word "Apatheist" recently. And that's what Marilyn Manson is. He's never came out directly as an atheist, deist , theist or polytheist etc... He's criticized organized religion before. But he often draws a lot from mythologies and philosophies that most consider to be "silly bullshit" that he incorporates into his music/art as well as his commentaries on subjects most would laugh at during interviews, but not whenever it comes to him for some reason. He's always talking about and embedding concepts about consciousness non locality and the paranormal into his work. That and numerology/astrology. Sorry, I just wanted to preface this with that observation that I've always made while perusing through threads and comments made by those in the online fan base since about the mid/late 90's, WELL before really getting involved to the point I have and still am within it.

I am still going to hold the position that "Say10" is the tentative if not widely, and possibly falsely believed title of the new record, when in fact it may or may not be. We'll see. About the numbers 1, 5, 10 and 15. According to R. Allendy, the number 15 represents the vital whirlwind 5, animating the cosmos 10, to father the world of the creatures to the image of the Archetype - 1 + 5 = 6. An odd and triangular number, 15 is a dynamic and creative agent; It represents the blooming of the life in the creation. At the same time, both represent the spiritual ascension seal, according to a theologian/occultist/author named Cornelius Agrippa. As well as both numbers holding Satanic values. Satan, who is developing only in the man such a virus. He imposes subtly his wills, causing blind passions, ephemeral pleasures and degrading. Lucifer being a word translated from Sanskrit as meaning "Truth" and in "The Prince of Lies", paradoxically. So, Lucifer, either just the word or as en entity has a double meaning to it. Other than Manson constantly using dollar signs to represent evil and moral bankruptcy, (Pun FULLY intended - LOL), as well as his use of the number 15. Not only is he an Aquarius, but the Presidential election is held on January 20th. 15 days after his birthday on 1/5 or 5/1. In base 10 , 666 is a repdigit, (and therefore a palindromic number) and a Smith number. A prime reciprocal magic square based on 1/149 in base 10 has a magic total of 666, also.

Other than attending Hellfire Club meetings and mock ceremonies, Benjamin Franklin being on the $100 bill, he was also speculated to be a ritualistic serial killer. He also authored "Poor Richard's Almanack" which sold 10,000 copies. He also mailed 500 copies for free to the widow of his brother so that she could also sell the book as well as disseminating it to clergy members of the Church of England to give to the poorest its parishnors. A lot of his beliefs revolved around controlling the sexual lives of servants for the economic benefit of their masters. "Dollar sign snakes"/"And cash is a poor mans money". Eh?

He's described this record as being sexually and politically violent. As for God and politics. One person, Paul Blanshard, who authored "God and man in Washington" which was about both his studies as well as role in government under the Kennedy administration which he referred to as saying "This institution was what Mark Twain would have called a theological cemetery". He studied at Harvard Divinity School before becoming a secular humanist and also being a spokesperson for Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

0 is just a placeholder and the President is just a puppet. Anyway. At the same time, in relation to God/The Bible - The number 10 is said to be the number of divine perfection: "1/10th of your income is the tithe" which formed the foundation of Tabernacle and the 10 “I AM”s which Jesus spoke in John. The ten "I AM’s" are "I am the bread of life. I am the bread of life which came down from heaven. I am the living bread,.I am the light of the world. I am one that bears witness of myself. I am the door of the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I am the resurrection and the life. I am the way, the truth and the life. I am the true vine.". I could explore the more sexual and violent content that are said to be the mortar of the album, but, well, we only have one snippet of a song and a handful of interviews that don't give too much away. I'll just leave this here. You know? As a placeholder.

Very interesting, especially about Franklin . . . had never heard the rumor of his being a ritualistic serial murderer . . . knew about the Hellfire stuff. The numerology is interesting. Of course "6" is also the number of a man. And "9" is the number of Satan (or of cats, depending on one's preference?). Reminds me of when George Carlin ripped on the 10 Commandments, said it was a psychologically satisfying number. Nine . . . plus one. Also found it interesting how Marilyn Manson started to have nine tracks on his ninth album, The Pale Emperor, but told the guy on NPR that he'd ended up doing ten anyway. The tenth, of course, was kind of the postscript, "Odds of Even". And the album wouldn't have been complete without it, would have just "stopped". Ten is the number of perfection in some traditions, or completion. This album's gonna' be good. Thanks for the analysis, wish I had more to add. Just musing openly a bit.

Here shortly, I am going to reply to you ComaRainbow. I'm also going to "Workshop" my initial post into something less sporadic with more concise context that makes it easier for people to take from and add to. *Note - I'm not preemptively analyzing a record that doesn't exist yet. I'm simply making observations of Manson's history of using numerology, astrology, tarot, alchemy, mythology, religion, different philosophies and his different characters leading up to this point and the possible significance it may or not play into the upcoming album.

"he was also speculated to be a ritualistic serial killer"- please elaborate. ^.^/

"A lot of his beliefs revolved around controlling the sexual lives of servants for the economic benefit of their masters." Can you cite this? For funsies, until recently I never coupled the line "you are what you beat" as a sexual innuendo

" "Dollar sign snakes"/"And cash is a poor mans money". Eh?" Nice tie in considering BenFrank actually sold 10,000 copies Per Year published, all chock-full of proverbs about the empowerment of industry and being a part of the working class &/even the slavery caste - does this mean BenFrank is some Satan? No, I think this makes BenFrank a great business man. Then again, white collar america: you say God...I say narcissist.

But this great business man employed phrases and terms used by others as a means of his publishings' portfolio, penned in another man's name, ffs.

"he was also speculated to be a ritualistic serial killer"- please elaborate. ^.^/

"A lot of his beliefs revolved around controlling the sexual lives of servants for the economic benefit of their masters." Can you cite this? For funsies, until recently I never coupled the line "you are what you beat" as a sexual innuendo

" "Dollar sign snakes"/"And cash is a poor mans money". Eh?" Nice tie in considering BenFrank actually sold 10,000 copies Per Year published, all chock-full of proverbs about the empowerment of industry and being a part of the working class &/even the slavery caste - does this mean BenFrank is some Satan? No, I think this makes BenFrank a great business man. Then again, white collar america: you say God...I say narcissist.

But this great business man employed phrases and terms used by others as a means of his publishings' portfolio, penned in another man's name, ffs.

Idk, Nice work on numerology mark ups.

I've been out all day. *Placeholder* I'll elaborate tomorrow early once my morning star brain has kicked in.

Manson said it in one of his songs "I never really hated the one true God, but the God of the people I've hated." He's criticized organized religion, but like you said, he's never explicitly come out or stated he's an atheist.

Per Franklin, from my understanding, wasn't anatomical study just being done?

I was going to post more, but I give up lol. Really interesting stuff nonetheless, especially the numerology. Keep it up, bro :p

TPE release date was the first day of Aquarius. I don't know why that date was chosen for TPE, but Valentines day is also during Aquarius. I doubt there's any correlation with Aquarius. Also Manson is a Capricorn, not an Aquarius.

Yeah, he did use pseudonym's for a lot of authoring's which wasn't uncommon for that time period. As for the debate as to whether or not he was a serial killer, an accomplice to murder or just aware of what was taking place at his residence by a close friend and physician William Hewson and not just being"resurrectionists"/grave robbers is still somewhat debated by historians as well as medical examiners/experts. There's a special entitled "Secrets of the Dead: Benjamin Franklin's Bones" which included a police investigation and coroner reports/notes. Not all of the bones examined by coroner Paul Knapman were determined to have been manipulated/mutilated post mortem. One they found in particular, were the remains of an infant. What alarmed the police at the time were discoveries they had made that were similar to the story of Fred and Roseamary West,a few years prior to what they discovered at Franklin's residence. The West's had murdered at least 22 people and remains had also been buried under their home a few years prior to what was discovered at Franklin's old residence in a similar fashion. Whenever I was in London, I had the privilege of visiting Scotland Yard's Crime Museum, as I was in a relationship with someone who worked for the Home Office in Scotland Yard. Feel free to further research this, about Frankilin and Hewson. Dare I say that it was the original "House of 1000 Corpses"? - lol - One last note on that, as you're free to do your own research is based on a police report. You can read the full transcript or just watch the documentary here. - http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/ben-...-episode/2074/

As for The Hell Fire Club, Benjamin Franklin and Sir Francis Dashwood - What you asked about "A lot of his beliefs revolved around controlling the sexual lives of servants for the economic benefit of their masters." - They brought in prostitutes and even ladies of society who were not too prudish to play the role of “nuns” for the pleasure of the "monks" of Abbey. “The original Hell-Fire Club had been abolished by special order of the Lord High Chancellor, because even in that broadminded time the members had carried things a little too far when they celebrated Mass on the body of a naked girl stretched out on one of the barroom tables. Dashwood recreated the group under the new name but the public kept calling the group The Hell Fire Club."

Other sources are included on that page as well. I hate the format of it, but it's legitimate. I used to not only study this in HS but also abroad.

There's so much I want to get into, especially from "Faustus;My Soul be Damned for the World". And I will. I'm a businessman and "Mr.Social" self enterprises and pampering industries right now. - I just wanted to reply to YoureAlreadyHere real quick.

And Haz - I've already edited this post with an annotation of what it is about. It isn't "digging too deep". Talk about "shitting on everything on the forum". What if I were to go into your bootleg threads and even though I enjoy them, were to constantly shit on your shitty camera work? Not that it is. But it would probably become annoying and eventually redundant at some point. But please, keep pointing out how utterly "retarded" I am. Others seem to enjoy my topics. No need to hijack a good majority of mine. I also don't resort to public ad hominems as much as I used to, but you seem to be championed in it as your only way of establishing some sort of self preserving elitism over people you disagree with.

Manson said it in one of his songs "I never really hated the one true God, but the God of the people I've hated." He's criticized organized religion, but like you said, he's never explicitly come out or stated he's an atheist.

Yeah, and that's actually a line he took from Aleister Crowley, who also said one time, "I'm an atheist - thank God!"

Originally Posted by Shangri-LIE

As for the debate as to whether or not he was a serial killer, an accomplice to murder or just aware of what was taking place at his residence by a close friend and physician William Hewson and not just being"resurrectionists"/grave robbers is still somewhat debated by historians as well as medical examiners/experts. There's a special entitled "Secrets of the Dead: Benjamin Franklin's Bones" which included a police investigation and coroner reports/notes. Not all of the bones examined by coroner Paul Knapman were determined to have been manipulated/mutilated post mortem. One they found in particular, were the remains of an infant. What alarmed the police at the time were discoveries they had made that were similar to the story of Fred and Roseamary West,a few years prior to what they discovered at Franklin's residence. The West's had murdered at least 22 people and remains had also been buried under their home a few years prior to what was discovered at Franklin's old residence in a similar fashion. Whenever I was in London, I had the privilege of visiting Scotland Yard's Crime Museum, as I was in a relationship with someone who worked for the Home Office in Scotland Yard. Feel free to further research this, about Frankilin and Hewson. Dare I say that it was the original "House of 1000 Corpses"? - lol - One last note on that, as you're free to do your own research is based on a police report. You can read the full transcript or just watch the documentary here. - http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/ben-...-episode/2074/

As for The Hell Fire Club, Benjamin Franklin and Sir Francis Dashwood - What you asked about "A lot of his beliefs revolved around controlling the sexual lives of servants for the economic benefit of their masters." - They brought in prostitutes and even ladies of society who were not too prudish to play the role of “nuns” for the pleasure of the "monks" of Abbey. “The original Hell-Fire Club had been abolished by special order of the Lord High Chancellor, because even in that broadminded time the members had carried things a little too far when they celebrated Mass on the body of a naked girl stretched out on one of the barroom tables. Dashwood recreated the group under the new name but the public kept calling the group The Hell Fire Club."

Other sources are included on that page as well. I hate the format of it, but it's legitimate. I used to not only study this in HS but also abroad.

Thanks for the PBS special link. Daniel Mannix wrote a great book about the Hellfire Club, besides whatever is on this web link . . . oddly enough he also wrote a book on Crowley. And actually, he was a fox-hunter who wrote the original novel The Fox and the Hound, which is a little bit more gritty than the Disney cartoon movie . . . if anybody can imagine that . . .