So you are Gona sell a mid travel kit to someone before testing it yourselves? Sure it may make sense on paper but actually testing it is way different. Doesn't seem safe

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I am sure its plenty safe, do you think they are crappy welders using thin material?

I am sure it will be plenty strong, I have seen parts from them before and they arent unsafe by any means, its the driver in the end that determines safety, lol. Anything can be broken if your a douchenozzel.

The products I have seen were built very beefy and failure wasnt something that came to mind when seeing them, look at the other products before you start pointing the finger to get an idea of what type of work comes out of there.

I am sure its plenty safe, do you think they are crappy welders using thin material?

I am sure it will be plenty strong, I have seen parts from them before and they arent unsafe by any means, its the driver in the end that determines safety, lol. Anything can be broken if your a douchenozzel.

The products I have seen were built very beefy and failure wasnt something that came to mind when seeing them, look at the other products before you start pointing the finger to get an idea of what type of work comes out of there.

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Im not talking about material used or quality of welds. I have been to brians shop many times. Quality of workmanship was never an issue. I was the guinea pig for the 5 lug lift spindles. The only thing im pointing out is if your going to sell a product to someone it should be tested and proven before saying it is ready for orders. My situation was different because i knew what i was getting into as far as trial and error. But if your going to advertise a product and say its ready it should be tested and proven not sell it to someone then work out the bugs after the fact. The spindles were installed on my truck countless times. Yea they worked on paper but we ran into many other problems that were only seen when installed and did not allow me to drive my truck leaving the spindles useless. So id hate to see someone buy this kit without it even being tested first. Then they run into problems and have there daily driver inoperable. I wasted hundreds of dollars on hardware, gas, time, bearings etc. and there was no final product as a result.

I was not there when Brian was using your truck as the first test run of the spindles so I cannot say much about it.

Since I have been there we found a lot of problems with the factory parts and how much of a pain it is to keep the stock parts in order to run the spindle.

The time constraint was an issue because we were trying to get them to work with the TC UCA to save money for customers. The plan was to get the truck together, test it on a few trails around here and then let the customer take it home and test it to see what their thoughts on it would be. But as mentioned earlier we ran out of time because we wanted to have it work with the TC UCA's as well as with our UCA's, except we found it doesn't work with TC UCA's unfortunately.

There isn't a guinea pig in this when the customer knows that it's still developing or in prototype stages, since we now found a working setup and know it works.

To finalize we know it cycles great with our UCA's and allows a clean amount of travel with 0 bump steer. So to sum it up, yes mistakes have been made, money has been used but a product ready to take some abuse has been designed.

I build kit for different year trucks and different brands (ie. Toyotas, fords, chevy trucks) from full size to mid size trucks. I dont own every truck to "test out" my product. neither does camburg, total choas, solo motorsports, SRD. I dont and cant so we build a kit prototype it on the truck cycle the suspension, check for any issues. Then it gets transfered to CAD for each part to be drawn in 3d. This makes water jetting and CNC bending easier. So there is no CAD prototyping here. Only on the truck. Then we build it and put it on a truck. Either mine or a customers. The customer is informed about the prototpye being done and they are fully aware what they are getting into. BUT the customer gets a killer deal on parts and no labor fees. So they are paying for a product that is at cost and i always throw in a bumper to sweetin the deal. On David's 5 lug with the lift spindle i was building the spindles to work with toal choas upper arms. I was trying to make a lift off of their suspension engineering. Making it safe and reliable and cost effective. You all want bad ass build parts but you dont want to pay for them. I get it but there is a lot that goes my kits and parts. I built 3 different sets of spindles for davids truck and it still didnt work. Im still working on them and i will continue to untill i get them right. David did spend a lot of his extra money driving down and parts. Problem 1 he lives 3 hours away. Not an easy fet. He did have a lot of tme into this process. What he and most of you dont understand is i spend 60 hours into these spindles to this point 5000 in material, CAD drawnings and changes, water jetting fees, bending fees, machining hubs and new bearings. So its just not a time or money issue for the customer it is for me too and my business. David backed out of the prototype design phase and i gave him his money back. Its ok. no big deal. Point being this is a process that will always be changing and evolving. Ive installed 3 98 5 lug tacoma long travel kits and im still changing little things to better my kits. I dont feel its perfect and it can always be better. Thats whoi am and how i do things. I cant say the same for other companies. I need guys like david who are willing to prototype kits and parts out for me. This kit has been prototyped and its ready for a customer to go put some miles on it. Who is ready ?

I build kit for different year trucks and different brands (ie. Toyotas, fords, chevy trucks) from full size to mid size trucks. I dont own every truck to "test out" my product. neither does camburg, total choas, solo motorsports, SRD. I dont and cant so we build a kit prototype it on the truck cycle the suspension, check for any issues. Then it gets transfered to CAD for each part to be drawn in 3d. This makes water jetting and CNC bending easier. So there is no CAD prototyping here. Only on the truck. Then we build it and put it on a truck. Either mine or a customers. The customer is informed about the prototpye being done and they are fully aware what they are getting into. BUT the customer gets a killer deal on parts and no labor fees. So they are paying for a product that is at cost and i always throw in a bumper to sweetin the deal. On David's 5 lug with the lift spindle i was building the spindles to work with toal choas upper arms. I was trying to make a lift off of their suspension engineering. Making it safe and reliable and cost effective. You all want bad ass build parts but you dont want to pay for them. I get it but there is a lot that goes my kits and parts. I built 3 different sets of spindles for davids truck and it still didnt work. Im still working on them and i will continue to untill i get them right. David did spend a lot of his extra money driving down and parts. Problem 1 he lives 3 hours away. Not an easy fet. He did have a lot of tme into this process. What he and most of you dont understand is i spend 60 hours into these spindles to this point 5000 in material, CAD drawnings and changes, water jetting fees, bending fees, machining hubs and new bearings. So its just not a time or money issue for the customer it is for me too and my business. David backed out of the prototype design phase and i gave him his money back. Its ok. no big deal. Point being this is a process that will always be changing and evolving. Ive installed 3 98 5 lug tacoma long travel kits and im still changing little things to better my kits. I dont feel its perfect and it can always be better. Thats whoi am and how i do things. I cant say the same for other companies. I need guys like david who are willing to prototype kits and parts out for me. This kit has been prototyped and its ready for a customer to go put some miles on it. Who is ready ?

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THIS ^^^^

People good things take time and high quality parts have a high quality price

I wish I could help. Maybe I can but you might not be up for a long distance relationship. I'm an EE with minor fab skills and lots of ME friends that were on the formula team back in school if that makes any difference.

Let me clarify that last answer. I work out a time that i can use your truck to bolt on the prototype kit. We then cycle the suspension make sure there arent any clearance issues, the suspension cycles without any bumpsteer. I then put your truck back together and give it back to you. The prototype parts then get CAD drawn and then waterjet and CNC bend before welding in a fixture. I dont like using the prototype arms and spindles for testing, I get the kit in a finished (final sale able state, just like it would be when i sell it). This gives me a final mockup and test fit before we finalize the CAD work and make any final few changes. After that we bring your truck back and we bolt the kit on and get you off to the alignment shop for alignment and readings to see where the kit stands to stock specs. Then you just drive on it give me feed back and any problems you incounter.