BC's vision is bullsh*t. We are going on year 5 of the BC era in TO and TO has went from Division champs to Conference chumps under his watch all the while losing CB4 who saw through BC's bs vision and bolted to Miami- one that always included Bargnani. BC had surrounded Bosh with questionable & marginal NBA talent and expected him to carry the whole team- even KMalone had Stockton, w/o that second star caliber player. Riley showed BC how build a team with Bosh while taking him away from BC which began with the JO deal.

Time for BC to take his steez and leave TO. The Raptor's need a new vision with new minds behind the team design as this international/US player mix team experiment is a direct disrespect to the more knowledgeable Raptor fans and followers who enjoy NBA basketball. To the folks still drinking the BC kool aid- one word- Jonestown.

some of the same players that were bosh's supporting cast here in T.O have had playoff success for other teams since as role players.

when your franchise guy isnt a franchise guy theres not enough role players out there to make up for that.

our problem has not been the supporting cast its been our franchise guy all along & how peeps cant see that is beyond me. if bosh was as good as wade, LBJ, kobe, duncan, shaq we would have seen a hell of alot more playoff games in T.O

Bosh,Vc,Tmac & all the rest of our franchise guys were over hyped due to the fact they had pretty much a whole country stroking there ego's. they became bigger then the game,then they flew south seeking even more ego stroking.

also pat riley has had success yes but hes had his share of loosing season just like the rest. if bosh was as serious as colangelo is about building a winner in T.O then he could have tryed to recriut someone to T.O this year instead of bolting. we might not have had as much cap space as miami but we had something of more value seeing how the FA frenzy played out & that was sign & trade assets(alot more then miami had to offer). we could have pretty much traded anyone for the likes of LBJ & Wade.

ok number one MLSE makes a ton of money from the raptors in toronto... even when the team is horrible the acc is usually sold out... why would MLSE move the raps to vegas ??

number two... there are a ton of assistant gm's, former gm's, former players, and even broadcasters who would kill to take over a team and show how smart they are

number three... why would any gm take any job knowing that he is gona have to clean up a mess... anytime a gm is replaced it's b/c the team is a mess...(exception k pritchard) no team says hey so we have a franchise player, some good secondaary pieces, young talent, and all of our draft picks... hmm i have an idea... lets fire the gm !! (exception k pritchard)

You're kidding right? Colangelo had actually managed to build a couple of successful seasons with the Raptors with Bosh, who clearly is not a centerpiece. So instead of someone with, at the very least, a name that demands respect and the skill/balls to pull the trigger with a trade that will make the team better, you want the questionable and unproven following: "a ton of assistant gm's, former gm's, former players, and even broadcasters who would kill to take over a team and show how smart they are" And i mentioned the move to Vegas just as an example of what could happen, not that it ever will.

You're kidding right? Colangelo had actually managed to build a couple of successful seasons with the Raptors with Bosh, who clearly is not a centerpiece. So instead of someone with, at the very least, a name that demands respect and the skill/balls to pull the trigger with a trade that will make the team better

ok again...

number one... a couple of successful seasons ? really ? wat 2 first round playoff exits is successful to you ?

number two...a name that demands respect ? why does bc's name demand any more respect than the gm's of philly, new york, new jersy, indiana, charlotte, detroit ?

some of those gm's have actually won championships... why is bc so special to you ?

number three... pull the trigger with a trade that will make the team better? ok every gm tries to do that... why does bc get special credit for trying to do that ? and what trades are you talking about that made the team so much better ??

number four... you wrote "i mentioned the move to Vegas just as an example of what could happen, not that it ever will."

so why would you mention it ? the raps could go 40-42 for 5 years and acc will be sold out and mlse will never even hint at moving the team...

i encourage you to think about why you have bc so high up and think that he is the only person on the planet to run this team... are you telling me that there ARENT other basketball people who just maybe have a ton of experience in the NBA that could run a team ?

You're kidding right? Colangelo had actually managed to build a couple of successful seasons with the Raptors with Bosh, who clearly is not a centerpiece.

i hope you know that bc offered bosh a max contract right ? so if bc didnt think bosh was a franchise player then why did he go on record before the 2009-2010 season and say we hope to hav chris signed with us for a long time and he went on to say how special of a player chris is?

i agree bosh isnt a franchise player but BC thought he was all the way up to march 2010...

bc tried to build around bosh since he got here... never did the gm you defend so much try to trade bosh.

number one... a couple of successful seasons ? really ? wat 2 first round playoff exits is successful to you ?

number two...a name that demands respect ? why does bc's name demand any more respect than the gm's of philly, new york, new jersy, indiana, charlotte, detroit ?

some of those gm's have actually won championships... why is bc so special to you ?

number three... pull the trigger with a trade that will make the team better? ok every gm tries to do that... why does bc get special credit for trying to do that ? and what trades are you talking about that made the team so much better ??

number four... you wrote "i mentioned the move to Vegas just as an example of what could happen, not that it ever will."

so why would you mention it ? the raps could go 40-42 for 5 years and acc will be sold out and mlse will never even hint at moving the team...

i encourage you to think about why you have bc so high up and think that he is the only person on the planet to run this team... are you telling me that there ARENT other basketball people who just maybe have a ton of experience in the NBA that could run a team ?

First off i think you're the type of angry fan that just disagrees with everything everyone says just to feel special. But ill keep humoring you.

1. success is relative. Our most successful season was a second round playoff exit. So by our low standards, 47 wins and an atlantic division title is somewhat successful. It takes some GMs 5 years to accomplish that, BC did it in one. Yes we declined, but to be able to pull that off takes some level of skill. Meaning, he should be given at least a 2 more seasons with a roster totally his own, and at that time the true judgements can happen

2. Colangelo is known league-wide. Please tell me who you are more likely to talk business and serious trade with, Bryan Colangelo, or some a random dude that MLSE finds, because those are the only types that are likely to arrive here if BC goes. Regardless of his transaction history, BC still pulls lopsided trades because his peers know and respect him.

3. You probably shit yourself with excitement when you found out we landed Hedo Turkoglu. It didnt pan out, but the whole city was praising BC for actually getting a high profile figure to sign with the raptors. Bottom line, BC can acquire talent creatively, who else has this franchise had with his skill?

I dont have BC on some sort of pedestal, but I dont see just dont see a better replacement out there right now. Give the man a couple more seasons, if it doesnt work out, then bite his head off. But i think right now he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Kevin Pritchard. The man known for drafting Oden over Durant. Hmmmm. Any reason why he's still out of a job?

yea he's also the guy that on draft night was able to trade randy foye for brandon roy...
acquired rudy fernandez for a tpe
acquired nicolas batum for darell arthur n joey dorsey.
he's on record for urging the trailblazers to pick chris paul, but instead they traded the pick to utah
traded telfair and ratliff for a 7th pick. guess who they ended up getting ?
traded tyrus thomas for aldridge.

oden was the projected top pick n no one predicted durant would be this good.

First off i think you're the type of angry fan that just disagrees with everything everyone says just to feel special. But ill keep humoring you.

1. success is relative. Our most successful season was a second round playoff exit. So by our low standards, 47 wins and an atlantic division title is somewhat successful. It takes some GMs 5 years to accomplish that, BC did it in one. Yes we declined, but to be able to pull that off takes some level of skill. Meaning, he should be given at least a 2 more seasons with a roster totally his own, and at that time the true judgements can happen

2. Colangelo is known league-wide. Please tell me who you are more likely to talk business and serious trade with, Bryan Colangelo, or some a random dude that MLSE finds, because those are the only types that are likely to arrive here if BC goes. Regardless of his transaction history, BC still pulls lopsided trades because his peers know and respect him.

3. You probably shit yourself with excitement when you found out we landed Hedo Turkoglu. It didnt pan out, but the whole city was praising BC for actually getting a high profile figure to sign with the raptors. Bottom line, BC can acquire talent creatively, who else has this franchise had with his skill?

I dont have BC on some sort of pedestal, but I dont see just dont see a better replacement out there right now. Give the man a couple more seasons, if it doesnt work out, then bite his head off. But i think right now he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

which part of my post sounded angry?

please look at the rosters of the celtics (pre big 3), 76ers (no AI), nets (lots of injuries to carter, kidd, n rj), and knicks (isah thomas years) and tell me why winning a division title in 2006 is a good measuring stick to use when measuring the success under bc ?

so the portland trail blazers who just hired a former assistant gm... so what no one will talk to them now? because a former assistant gm of an NBA franchise is not worthy of talking "serious business" about in your opinion... you cant be serious...

you fail to answer my question on why you think bc is so special?

have you heard of john hammond ? he is the bucks gm. just won exec of the year.... go look up how many seasons he has been a gm ? clue its under 3... so in his first 2 years are you saying that if he called i dont know chicago and said hey i want salmons, chicago is gona say "oh we dont know you" and hang up ?

does hammod not have "balls/skill" as you used the term, to pull of trades ?

also who was john hammond ? the assistant to joe dumars in detroit before joining the bucks...

please look at the rosters of the celtics (pre big 3), 76ers (no AI), nets (lots of injuries to carter, kidd, n rj), and knicks (isah thomas years) and tell me why winning a division title is a good measuring stick to use when measuring the success under bc ?

so the portland trail blazers who just hired a former assistant gm... so what no one will talk to them now? because a former assistant gm of an NBA franchise is not worthy of talking "serious business" about in your opinion... you cant be serious...

i could write a book about how i disagree with you... you fail to answer my question on why you think bc is so special?

so if larry bird calls some other nba gm, hez not gona take him seriously ? or donnie walsh ?

hope none of this sounded too angry... and seriously plz tell me which part was angry ?

grunwald was the gm for the 2nd round exit but VC was as much in charge at the time as grunwald in my opinion. it was a what VC wanted VC got policy & that included "broken Dream" hakeem LOL

people will still talk to portland because they got alot of quality player people want. Raptors not so much LOL

No assets + No carismatic GM to fleece other GM's = 10 more years of building through the draft & crossing our fingers we find a gem or two & can sign them to more then 2 contracts before they leave.

The truth lies somewhere between the group of fans that are unmercifully tossing Colangelo beneath the bus and the group of supporters who refuse to admit that BC has had a MAJOR hand in the crappy position that the Raps now find themselves in.

However, claiming that a lack of suitable replacements is the reason that we should continue to ride out Colangelo's tenure is flawed thinking. There are literally dozens of young, knowledgeable basketball minds that are working on staffs around the NBA that could run an NBA franchise at a high level. Some of you are overvaluing what a charismatic personality and a perfect smile mean in the realm of being a successful executive in this league. It's about understanding the cap, utilizing the draft, compiling assets and having the foresight to know what moves to make and what times to make them... not being able to pick up the phone and shoot the shit effectively with other people around the league.

I hope to god that most Raps fans are not like vinnie_paz. That guy is the black hole of pessimism that I'm sure is not reflective of most fans. Forums like RR allows fans to discuss things loosely. We all hope for the best but our thoughts are just that, thoughts. Sports is an inexact science - so too will our responses that revolve around any particular team. There's been some really good suggestions and bad ones in this forum - all of which I take with a grain of salt (my comments included). Vinnie_paz, take a pill, be a real fan and more importantly, tolerate (like most fans do).

The truth lies somewhere between the group of fans that are unmercifully tossing Colangelo beneath the bus and the group of supporters who refuse to admit that BC has had a MAJOR hand in the crappy position that the Raps now find themselves in.

However, claiming that a lack of suitable replacements is the reason that we should continue to ride out Colangelo's tenure is flawed thinking. There are literally dozens of young, knowledgeable basketball minds that are working on staffs around the NBA that could run an NBA franchise at a high level. Some of you are overvaluing what a charismatic personality and a perfect smile mean in the realm of being a successful executive in this league. It's about understanding the cap, utilizing the draft, compiling assets and having the foresight to know what moves to make and what times to make them... not being able to pick up the phone and shoot the shit effectively with other people around the league.

think of a used car salesman with no carisma, they're not sellin many.
GM is sort of the same, everyone is trying to sell something.

now if your product isnt as good as the rest u need someone who will make people think it is LOL

on a serious note though BC has never been on pedistal in my house but to say hes not a good GM is rediculous. every team & GM has success & failures, the good teams live through them & keep faith in there Team & GM, the bad teams & fanbases usually try railroad everyone out of town after a loss or lossing season.

the attitude of some fans in toronto is part of the reason some players dont want to play here,

this city is sooo hungry for a championship that every year when we dont get there everybody wants to explode the team & fire the GM, Raps, Leafs, Jays its the same thing every year. no team wins every year & no team is immune to lossing seasons.

Did anyone in L.A get fired after they traded shaq? they had a bunch of loosing sesons too before gasol landed there.

pat riley didnt get fired after miami's horrible season which they ended up in the lottery & drafted beasley.

One, The team has to show as being promising towards the future and
Two, MLSE has to be making some money; If those two conditions are true, BC is likely to receive some kind of extension, maybe a 2 or 3 year extension.

BC has made some moves that obviously did not work out but the team right now has some promising young players to work with and the payroll is under control;
If Calderon is traded, the only bad contract they have now, then it's almost guaranteed BC will be offered an extension.

I hope to god that most Raps fans are not like vinnie_paz. That guy is the black hole of pessimism that I'm sure is not reflective of most fans. Forums like RR allows fans to discuss things loosely. We all hope for the best but our thoughts are just that, thoughts. Sports is an inexact science - so too will our responses that revolve around any particular team. There's been some really good suggestions and bad ones in this forum - all of which I take with a grain of salt (my comments included). Vinnie_paz, take a pill, be a real fan and more importantly, tolerate (like most fans do).

i dont think you know how to read... name a place where i said we should fire bc... all i said was that the argument that there are no suitable replacements is flawed and used examples.... how is that a black hole of pessimism ?

in fact post #14 on page 1 of this thread i wrote "i dont think we need to fire BC" in the first line of my post ...

However, claiming that a lack of suitable replacements is the reason that we should continue to ride out Colangelo's tenure is flawed thinking. There are literally dozens of young, knowledgeable basketball minds that are working on staffs around the NBA that could run an NBA franchise at a high level. Some of you are overvaluing what a charismatic personality and a perfect smile mean in the realm of being a successful executive in this league. It's about understanding the cap, utilizing the draft, compiling assets and having the foresight to know what moves to make and what times to make them... not being able to pick up the phone and shoot the shit effectively with other people around the league.

V_P we'll agree to disagree on this one. Sorry bout the anger comment. The reason the Raptors are even here is that there are fans like us who will stick by the team regardless of the outcome. Have a good one bro.

Colangelo made a fool of himself and the entire organization with his comments about Bosh and that should cost him his job. The team should be actively searching for a new gm in the next 12 months. I would leave Triano as coach for the year, similar to Gaston's role with the Jays this season. Even if the Raps lose 65 games, at least we will hopefully be rewarded with a high pick.