I was only referring to the chops aspect as put forth in the context of the original post.

I do agree about Gadd's sense groove. If you read my entire post, I did say I'd kill to have it.

Yeah, sorry, I was just trying to make a rhetorical point.

But then again, I'm not sure I agree with you. Part of "feel" is when and where the strokes land - and that's a technical issue. I might agree that many have "elaborated" on what Steve said, but I wouldn't say they've improved the language.

Anyway, let's not get into a long debate. It doesn't really matter. We both dig Gadd's groove. That's enough for me. That's what he he's trying to say.

But then again, I'm not sure you're correct. Part of "feel" is when and where the strokes land - and that's a technical issue. I might agree that many have "elaborated" on what Steve said, but I wouldn't say they've improved the language...

I agree "Elaborated" is a much better term than "improve". I'll use that one next time.

But this debate has been played about a million times over different drummers, and it comes down to the same things: one guy laid the foundation, and someone else took it and went somewhere else with it, leaving kids to think the 1st guy isn't as deserving.

In Prog:
Kids like to say Mike Portnoy tops Neil Peart, but most of what Portnoy plays he took from Neil, and then added to.

In Metal:
Lars Ulrich gets slammed for not being as good as modern metal masters, but 25 years ago, Lars was playing innovative stuff no one else was really doing, that then everyone and their brother copied and took to a new level.

In big band:
People love to debate Buddy over Gene, but Gene was a huge influence on Buddy.

In jazz:
People go on and on about Tony and Elvin, but not as much about Papa Jo Jones who set up many of the concepts that Tony and Elvin took to a new level.

In overall drum history:
People love to discuss Buddy, Krupa, Tony, Ringo, Peart, but not so much guys like Zutty Singleton and Sonny Greer who were among the first guys to even play what we now consider a modern drum set on a recording.

And even drum historians still can't figure out who actually came up with the concept a drum set over individual drums, that poor person's name has been lost to history. We only know that Bill Ludwig took the concept and improved it to make a better and more practical bass drum pedal that allowed everyone else the chance to become drum set players.

Just goes to show that groove and feel are more important than chops MWUHAHAHAHA

Who can forget the joy those little "debates" (aka firestorms) brought us? Those threads were like a microcosm of public discourse today, where hardly anyone lands their point right in the sane middle ground - right in the pocket. Instead, debates are almost always full of people whose stance is basically "this is My Side and those on the Other Side are of bad intent".

Make no mistake, Steve has absolutely brilliant chops and without those tools he wouldn't be able to do all those marvellous things he does with groove, feel, and interpretation. But his chops aren't mind-blowing like those of Vinnie and Dave - they're "merely" brilliant. Poor old Steve :)

Only thing I don't like about Steve Gadd is the color of his sticks. I wish I could see them. I hate watching him waving his fists around and seeing the occasional cymbal wiggle.

Seriously, that's the only thing I can ding him on. There's nothing about his technique, style, taste, or sense of appropriateness that I have ever been able to take issue with. He's a dream to listen to.

I can't say that about any other drummer that comes to mind, including Dave or Vinnie...

the thing that Vinnie did starting at around 6:53 I think...? Still sickening really...I was floored when I first saw that...in 1990.

I think what Gadd did here was fantastic also....nothing wrong also with having some contrast with the players...none of these guys seemed to be trying to "cut" each other....but Vinnie and Dave did focus on chops more. I've heard other BR mem. Shows did not have this type of friendly back n forth with the drum features. *cough* Calhoon/Peart.

I'd never put down Steve Gadd....but to reply to an earlier post is it possible Vinnie may have just as many recordings these days? I know he has been hired for a ton of stuff...much you would not even think of him being on.

One day you will appreciate his playing much more. Once again, he is a master of the song and makes it look simple. When he plays, the drums just lay where they should without standing out, but certainly perfect for the song, and that is a very LONG list of songs!

__________________
Man these things are heavy! Perhaps I should have played the flute? J/K

So, I have recently been watching some of Steve Gadd's performances and I can't for the life of me see why he is considered one of the best drummers of all time. I mean to be compared to people like Vinnie, Jojo Mayer and many more seems to be ridiculous to be me.

For example, I saw a performance of Vinnie, Dave Weckl, and Steve Gadd playing together, and he seemed to be totally outclassed by the others.

Is there something i'm missing? Or maybe I am unable to appreciate his drumming.

I saw that video. I don't know how you could think he wasn't as good. When he played his solos actually sounded good. They were easy to listen to compared to Vinnie and Dave Weckl's solos.

Steve Gadd has all the chops & all the groove he needs. He has played on more albums than Vinnie & Dave put together, ( please feel free to add a few more names of world class drummers here, and he'd still be more.. ), and thats the proof of the pudding, period. In eating it.

Playing music has never been a comparative analysis of certain body parts, its about how effectively they are used. If that were true, the entire world would collectively bow to Thomas Lang and not to Ringo Starr.

...

No no no no no i didn't mean to do anything of the sort that was not my intention at all. I was merely stating that i connected with the groove that Gadd played more than anything else in that video, it is my favourite part. I love Vinnie and Weckl and they get the same respect and admiratrion from me that Gadd does as i know they all have the groove and chops necessary to express themselves fully. There i hope that clears things up.

[quote=Gadd plays in a way that inspires the others around him through his infectious groove and musical attitude towards playing. Regardless of what any one thinks about his playing, you don't become the most recorded drumming in history without doing something right.[/QUOTE]

To even say JoJo Mayers name in the same sentence with Vinnie, Weckl, and Gadd is absolutely ridiculous. You can find better players on any serious music campus in the US.

really? not a chance, jut because his name isn't as big as the others, or that he hasn't played with ALL the best guys.
seriously he is one of the best around today, although gadd is great, and IS one of the best, you would have a better chance at spoting a guy as good as gadd than mayer in my opinion, he can do things i have never seen anyone replicate

this piece alone is a great musical, technical piece.....no groove, but man he can groove aswell. I'm am not getting into a chops debate, but this guy is leaps and bounds neyond the frey when it comes to both. nobody alive today imo has a left hand like him

There have been some whacky threads here on DW, But this one wins the gold!
What's Up with Gadd!!! I LMAO when I read the first post!
The only thing that is, and has ever been up with Gadd, is his playing ability!

There have been some whacky threads here on DW, But this one wins the gold!
What's Up with Gadd!!! I LMAO when I read the first post!
The only thing that is, and has ever been up with Gadd, is his playing ability!

I know! Might as well have said "So, what is it with God" but they don't allow that religious stuff around here... I'd say this comes pretty close, though! :D

This is truly one strange thread. Steve Gadd is a world-class drummer possessing technique that the rest of us can only envy. He's my idea of what a drummer is: music first, drums second.

His ear for what makes a song happen, just that all by itself puts him up there in the realm of greatness. Steve Gadd is a songwriter and producer's dream drummer. He can play anything and he'll do it with impeccable taste.

That's what it is with Steve Gadd. He's a pro's pro, and every drummer that goes into the recording studio these days is under his shadow. Is there any higher standard to aspire to?

That is as absurd. And you don't need the "that started this thread." It's redundant. Original post means the same thing. It's like saying "the mother who gave birth to me."
.

True, but then again, I know mothers who didn't give birth, and woman who did give birth, but aren't mothers.

But that's getting wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic. :-P

In other news: The only time I saw Gadd live was during a Simon and Garfunkel acoustic thing at a benefit concert. They brought him out for one song. And I thought, wow, he doesn't come cheap, I can't imagine they flew him up, paid him his fee, flight, hotel, etc, just for ONE song. But apparently they did.

In other news: The only time I saw Gadd live was during a Simon and Garfunkel acoustic thing at a benefit concert. They brought him out for one song. And I thought, wow, he doesn't come cheap, I can't imagine they flew him up, paid him his fee, flight, hotel, etc, just for ONE song. But apparently they did.