So would the Morning and Evening prayers in the back of the OSB be considered complete for Antiochian usage then? I have heard critics bemoan how short and incomplete those are, as if they were printed that way to make them more palatable to inquirers into Orthodoxy who would be less comfortable with a fuller rule.

Also, if these are the complete rule of prayer, would the standard rule before the 1920's or so have been longer I wonder?

So would the Morning and Evening prayers in the back of the OSB be considered complete for Antiochian usage then? I have heard critics bemoan how short and incomplete those are, as if they were printed that way to make them more palatable to inquirers into Orthodoxy who would be less comfortable with a fuller rule.

Also, if these are the complete rule of prayer, would the standard rule before the 1920's or so have been longer I wonder?

I haven't heard any definitive answer to your question. I've understood that those prayers are a place for beginners. As our prayer life deepens and expands, we will add to those prayers from various sources.

I do discuss my prayer rule with my priest occasionally. The Red Book prayers and those in the OSB are for the most part included, but others have been added as needs (and my stamina to maintain the rule!) arose.

In any case, I think it's better to provide a short rule in a generic situation in order to allow an appetite for prayer to grow in the heart of the Christian.

There is another thread here critiquing the Jordanville Prayer book which is pretty the much the standard prayer book used by the Russian Church.

It got me thinking, what are the standard morning and evening prayers for the other jurisdictions?

It would be interesting to set them side by side and compare similarities and differences.

I don't know about the GOA in the States, but Greek practice elsewhere is to read the Midnight Office (minus Psalm 118) in the morning, and the Small Compline (often with the Akathist Hymn) in the evening.

Otherwise the norm seems to be some variant of the Russian collections of morning and evening prayers, although the collection of morning prayers in the Old Rite prayer book differ quite considerably from the rest.

I generally use the Morning and Evening Prayers from the Jordanville Prayerbook, but occasionally will use an Office instead. On Sunday Morning and days when I'm pressed for time or oversleep I have an abbreviated rule I use (certain prayers from the Jordanville). Of course I always add a few personal prayers as well. The prayers in the books are meant as guides, not a set in stone rule that they all have to be said absolutely every time. I also use my Serbian prayerbook frequently as well.

The Antiochians and GOA both have morning and evening prayers on their websites. Others may, too. It shouldn't be too hard to access them.

Thanks, g, I saw those but they seemed short and incomplete. Perhaps that is because I am used to the Jordanville prayers and just assumed they would be longer.I was thinking there might be more complete versions of the morning/ evening that included prayers to the Theotokos and the Guardian Angel for example.

While apparently not represented on the GOA's website, this corresponds with my experience as well:

I don't know about the GOA in the States, but Greek practice elsewhere is to read the Midnight Office (minus Psalm 118) in the morning, and the Small Compline (often with the Akathist Hymn) in the evening.

The Small Compline with Akathist or Canon is a lot more substantial than those listed on the site and (especially if the Akathist Hymn is included) includes many prayers to the Theotokos and one to our Guardian Angel.

I have the Jordanville prayer book which I used for many years. Still do. But, I also bought the Old Rite Russian prayer book. That has some very interesting extras in the morning and evening prayers which are not included in the Jordanville book. I guess that's because of the seperation of the Old Rite believers way back. I really like their prayer book. My thinking is, if it was good enough for the saints back then, then there's no harm in saying it this way. And they indicate when to bow or prostrate for certain prayers. Also, they have extra petitions to the saints and angels. They also included the prayer of St. Ephraim during Great Lent. They indicate when to insert a Canon, if desired. At the beginning, they have something called the Entrance and Dismissal Bows. But, they explain that that is applied when entering and leaving the Church. So maybe back then, the laity had more access to saying their prayers in Church. I feel there's alot of piety in these prayers. It has certainly fanned the spark in my heart for more fervent praying. If you need more details, let me know. I gotta go check out that other thread you mentioned.

There is another thread here critiquing the Jordanville Prayer book which is pretty the much the standard prayer book used by the Russian Church.

It got me thinking, what are the standard morning and evening prayers for the other jurisdictions?

It would be interesting to set them side by side and compare similarities and differences.

I don't know about the GOA in the States, but Greek practice elsewhere is to read the Midnight Office (minus Psalm 118) in the morning, and the Small Compline (often with the Akathist Hymn) in the evening.

Otherwise the norm seems to be some variant of the Russian collections of morning and evening prayers, although the collection of morning prayers in the Old Rite prayer book differ quite considerably from the rest.

Very interesting. The prayers in the Jordanville prayerbook have large pieces of Midnight office and Smalle Compline, respectively for the morning and evening prayers. I don't have to much exposure to the Greeks so I never knew what the practice was. Thanks for sharing!

In Christ,Andrew

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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

So would the Morning and Evening prayers in the back of the OSB be considered complete for Antiochian usage then? I have heard critics bemoan how short and incomplete those are, as if they were printed that way to make them more palatable to inquirers into Orthodoxy who would be less comfortable with a fuller rule.

Also, if these are the complete rule of prayer, would the standard rule before the 1920's or so have been longer I wonder?

There is no standard morning and evening prayer rule. There are various publications of prayers appropriate for morning and evening, but I am not aware of any kind of standard. People who want more, can find more. People who want less can do less. People who want to pray another way, can do that. For goodness sake, we have not even had printed prayerbooks for very long, and they have only gone into universal distribution even more recently. To the extent that individual laymen have a prayer rule, it is decided between the individuals and their spiritual father, not the publication of an archdiocese.

Also, with Antioch, I'm not sure what the 1920s has to do with anything. Could you explain?

« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 12:26:45 PM by Shanghaiski »

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