Are you referring to the post by Amidared? Can't really disagree with him. Don't know why that post would make you dislike them, it's pretty much to the point (about Hoeneß and how he's not doing any favors to Bayern with his outspokenness). Bayern cherry-picking the creme de la creme in the Bundesliga isn't wrong either per se (but this is something that's being done in every league, even by Liverpool).

Are you referring to the post by Amidared? Can't really disagree with him. Don't know why that post would make you dislike them, it's pretty much to the point (about Hoeneß and how he's not doing any favors to Bayern with his outspokenness). Bayern cherry-picking the creme de la creme in the Bundesliga isn't wrong either per se but this is something that's being done in every league, even by Liverpool.

It's more just an overall dislike, and then he puts the cherry on the cake along with a few others in that thread.

Agreed with him about Uli though, the man is an arrogant twat and should never been reelected in the first place. But to say Bayern as a whole club are arrogant, I simply couldn't disagree more with that. Bayern have a lot of believe in themselves, something Liverpool have plenty of as well. They speak about Anfield, that "special" atmosphere and how it's so much better and more special compared to other stadiums - all the time.

Some might take Bayerns self-esteem as arrogance, but I don't necessarily see it that way.

As someone once said "There's always been a bit of a swagger about Bayern Munich".

I’d be willing to bet that the number of BuLi prospects Bayern misses out on are at least comparable to (and probably lower than) the number of EPL players that Liverpool loses out on to their domestic competitors. Without accounting for how much more the BuLi loses players to other leagues, any claim that Bayern have better transfer luck within our respective league than liverpool does is absolute hogwash.

I’d be willing to bet that the number of BuLi prospects Bayern misses out on are at least comparable to (and probably lower than) the number of EPL players that Liverpool loses out on to their domestic competitors. Without accounting for how much more the BuLi loses players to other leagues, any claim that Bayern have better transfer luck within our respective league than liverpool does is absolute hogwash.

Exactly. And the only reason Liverpool aren't able to cherry pick players from other clubs is because they're not exactly on the top of the domestic hierarchy like Bayern are. It's a simple hierarchical structure that exists in every league, no matter how fans of other clubs try to spin it.

How many players Liverpool have that they got from other EPL clubs? They've got half of Southampton, Henderson from Sunderland, Ox from Arsenal, Robertson from Hull, Wijnaldum from Newcastle, Shaqiri from Stoke, and so on. So the only difference between Liverpool and Bayern in this regard is that Liverpool face competition for players whereas Bayern do not, that's why Bayern can cherry pick whereas Liverpool cannot.

None of this was really a reply to you, Grey, just ramblings about league club hierarchy and its resulting transfer policies.

And Liverpool fans aren't the only ones who don't realise they're weakening the competition by picking players from rival teams, fans of all other clubs except for Bayern don't realise it either. So can't really dislike Liverpool fans exclusively for that misconstrued conception of (weakening) competition.

Edit:

And what comes to that arrogance mentioned earlier, all successful clubs and their fans are arrogant. This includes Bayern, Liverpool and the lot. Fans normally don't see it for themselves though, because they think their arrogance is "justified" and that of the others isn't. High self-esteem in this regard (and often in general) is just another term for arrogance (so is swagger). And Bayern indeed are arrogant, or rather (majority of) Bayern fans and Uli, not the club itself. German Bayern fans are generally the worst in terms of arrogance, and they're also the most visible at away games, so hence the reputation.

Exactly. And the only reason Liverpool aren't able to cherry pick players from other clubs is because they're not exactly on the top of the domestic hierarchy like Bayern are. It's a simple hierarchical structure that exists in every league, no matter how fans of other clubs try to spin it.

How many players Liverpool have that they got from other EPL clubs? They've got half of Southampton, Henderson from Sunderland, Ox from Arsenal, Robertson from Hull, Wijnaldum from Newcastle, Shaqiri from Stoke, and so on. So the only difference between Liverpool and Bayern in this regard is that Liverpool face competition for players whereas Bayern do not, that's why Bayern can cherry pick whereas Liverpool cannot.

None of this was really a reply to you, Grey, just ramblings about league club hierarchy and its resulting transfer policies.

And Liverpool fans aren't the only ones who don't realise they're weakening the competition by picking players from rival teams, fans of all other clubs except for Bayern don't realise it either. So can't really dislike Liverpool fans exclusively for that misconstrued conception of (weakening) competition.

Edit:

And what comes to that arrogance mentioned earlier, all successful clubs and their fans are arrogant. This includes Bayern, Liverpool and the lot. Fans normally don't see it for themselves though, because they think their arrogance is "justified" and that of the others isn't. High self-esteem in this regard (and often in general) is just another term for arrogance (so is swagger). And Bayern indeed are arrogant, or rather (majority of) Bayern fans and Uli, not the club itself. German Bayern fans are generally the worst in terms of arrogance, and they're also the most visible at away games, so hence the reputation.

Why would you say so? For me they're definitely the most conservative though compared to the international Bayern fans, don't know if they're the most arrogant, but maybe that's where the arrogance is and what you mean. Them thinking Bayerns way of doing things is the only way, they're brainwashed by Uli, a lot of them at least.

I know about the swagger saying, it was a way of describing how others see the club and the arrogance surrounding it. For me self-esteem doesn't have to mean you're also arrogant, it all depends pretty much on how you behave.

Why would you say so? For me they're definitely the most conservative though compared to the international Bayern fans, don't know if they're the most arrogant, but maybe that's where the arrogance is and what you mean. Them thinking Bayerns way of doing things is the only way, they're brainwashed by Uli, a lot of them at least.

I know about the swagger saying, it was a way of describing how others see the club and the arrogance surrounding it. For me self-esteem doesn't have to mean you're also arrogant, it all depends pretty much on how you behave.

I'm saying so out of experience, especially when it comes to Bayern fans communicating with fans of other Bundesliga clubs, but also in general. This whole arrogant mentality thing can be traced all the way back to Bavarian identity. Bavarians in general are considered arrogant and snob in Germany, and it's all not for nothing (remember Bazi or what's-his-name).

I'm surprised by how quickly you blame Liverpool fans of arrogance yet don't see the arrogance in your own camp. That in itself comes across a little, well, arrogant. But I guess that's just good self-esteem (holier than thou attitude).

Foreign Bayern fans are most visible online, German Bayern fans are most visible at away games. And both of them are arrogant, just like all fans of all clubs are to a certain degree. So don't make the mistake of thinking Bayern fans are any better or worse.

I'm saying so out of experience, especially when it comes to Bayern fans communicating with fans of other Bundesliga clubs, but also in general. This whole arrogant mentality thing can be traced all the way back to Bavarian identity. Bavarians in general are considered arrogant and snob in Germany, and it's all not for nothing (remember Bazi or what's-his-name).

I'm surprised by how quickly you blame Liverpool fans of arrogance yet don't see the arrogance in your own camp. That in itself comes across a little, well, arrogant. But I guess that's just good self-esteem (holier than thou attitude).

Foreign Bayern fans are most visible online, German Bayern fans are most visible at away games. And both of them are arrogant, just like all fans of all clubs are to a certain degree. So don't make the mistake of thinking Bayern fans are any better or worse.

Well then you didn’t read my post that well. I never claimed Bayern fans can’t be arrogant, what I said is the club as a whole is not imo. I also don’t blame Liverpool fans for being more arrogant than others, just that I have a natural dislike for Liverpool, we all have our reasons. And that’s the beautiful thing about football, it’s probably one of the last places where most people are not without some kind of feelings instead of being rational.

But again, never did I proclaim Liverpool fans are more arrogant than Bayern or other big clubs, so I don’t know how you claim to that conclusion.

Well then you didn’t read my post that well. I never claimed Bayern fans can’t be arrogant, what I said is the club as a whole is not imo. I also don’t blame Liverpool fans for being more arrogant than others, just that I have a natural dislike for Liverpool, we all have our reasons. And that’s the beautiful thing about football, it’s probably one of the last places where most people are not without some kind of feelings instead of being rational.

But again, never did I proclaim Liverpool fans are more arrogant than Bayern or other big clubs, so I don’t know how you claim to that conclusion.

No, you didn't say it directly, but implied it throughout your posts, starting with the very first sentence.

It's more just an overall dislike, and then he puts the cherry on the cake along with a few others in that thread.

Agreed with him about Uli though, the man is an arrogant twat and should never been reelected in the first place. But to say Bayern as a whole club are arrogant, I simply couldn't disagree more with that. Bayern have a lot of believe in themselves, something Liverpool have plenty of as well. They speak about Anfield, that "special" atmosphere and how it's so much better and more special compared to other stadiums - all the time.

Some might take Bayerns self-esteem as arrogance, but I don't necessarily see it that way.

As someone once said "There's always been a bit of a swagger about Bayern Munich".

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlyInsider

Why would you say so? For me they're definitely the most conservative though compared to the international Bayern fans, don't know if they're the most arrogant, but maybe that's where the arrogance is and what you mean. Them thinking Bayerns way of doing things is the only way, they're brainwashed by Uli, a lot of them at least.

I know about the swagger saying, it was a way of describing how others see the club and the arrogance surrounding it. For me self-esteem doesn't have to mean you're also arrogant, it all depends pretty much on how you behave.

My point is that disliking other clubs is normal and fine, but when you can't handle fans of another club writing shit about your club while you're writing shit about their club, well that's just double standards.

No, you didn't say it directly, but implied it throughout your posts, starting with the very first sentence.

My point is that disliking other clubs is normal and fine, but when you can't handle fans of another club writing shit about your club while you're writing shit about their club, well that's just double standards.

You're reading what I wrote like the devil reads the bible, so you can get the meaning out of it as you want. I don't mind fans from other clubs disliking Bayern, but then you can ask what came first, the egg or the chicken?

Another thing: don't take everything so serious all the time, chill - it's banter, nothing more.

You're reading what I wrote like the devil reads the bible, so you can get the meaning out of it as you want. I don't mind fans from other clubs disliking Bayern, but then you can ask what came first, the egg or the chicken?

Another thing: don't take everything so serious all the time, chill - it's banter, nothing more.

Don't worry, I'm not taking it serious at all, I simply find it ridiculous.