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they where surprised themselves to see very clear effects even on very small levels.They detected an effect on the energetic balance I just can witness of a better sleep but as I did shut down the modem myself cannot know for the physical effect I perceived

I have read that the head of a belgium mobile phone company stopped Wifi at his floor , and try to use phone lines himself

I'd like to hear about your point there - Of course I am fully in plaebo effect, but I am surprised, as I was when detecting something once my mobile phone is shut down before sleeping

Thanks for your feedback

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Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

it is surprising I did perceive some change, so I will make tests with my son shutting down the modem ... Anyway if only the idea that the modem is shot is enough to have a better sleep I am all for it;)

_________________________
Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

You might shut your own wifi modem, but what about your neighbour's? And there's still the same frequency radiowaves coming from cellphone networks. It's virtually impossible to shield yourself from radiation in this part of the spectrum unless you put yourself into a Faraday Cage. The placebo effect is very strong. The only true way to tell is to use a double-blind testing methodology (neither the tester not the testee know the state). In all tests that have been done with people who claim "electrosensitivity" to cellphones, none of them could actually tell the difference any more than a random choice of answer.

There is so much fear, uncertainty and doubt being promulgated these days that I find that more stressful than any of the supposed "radiation" effects. There's a lot of money being made on selling people "shields" for this or to "clean up" so-called "dirty" electricity. Sadly, there are a lot of people who are very suggestible and they will pay-up. Then the placebo effect works again as they are "cured" by these miraculous devices they bought.

I worked with a guy who was always ready to spend money on highly dubious items. One day he showed up wearing a big round pendant with a labyrinth-like pattern on it. I saw at a glance that it was a printed circuit card which would've cost less than a dollar to make. He'd paid $100 for it as an "EMF protection shield". I don't think the promotional materials mentioned this, but I'm pretty sure that in southwest Ohio where he lived, the item is also 100% effective as an elephant repellent.

Thanks guys but I am not ready to buy any gadget, I just shut down my cell phone and wifi in my home at night (and the tv) the wifi from my neighbours is very weak here. Now I certainly live in cell phone antennas range, as many of us.

I will let you know if my testings provide any result. .

As an Italian engineer had recognized that the 12 years he passed with 6 hours a day a cell phone on his ear gives him a brain tumor, I would certainly understand that risk is not zero.

That said, watching the TV also raise my stress level

_________________________
Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

You might shut your own wifi modem, but what about your neighbour's? And there's still the same frequency radiowaves coming from cellphone networks. It's virtually impossible to shield yourself from radiation in this part of the spectrum unless you put yourself into a Faraday Cage. The placebo effect is very strong. The only true way to tell is to use a double-blind testing methodology (neither the tester not the testee know the state). In all tests that have been done with people who claim "electrosensitivity" to cellphones, none of them could actually tell the difference any more than a random choice of answer.

There is so much fear, uncertainty and doubt being promulgated these days that I find that more stressful than any of the supposed "radiation" effects. There's a lot of money being made on selling people "shields" for this or to "clean up" so-called "dirty" electricity. Sadly, there are a lot of people who are very suggestible and they will pay-up. Then the placebo effect works again as they are "cured" by these miraculous devices they bought.

Exactly. Plus, many people hear the word "radiation" and go into a panic, thinking radio frequency radiation is the same as ionizing radiation. The only thing RF can do is cause localized heating of tissue, and even then, only in the hundreds of watts range. I really believe the .5 watts that is emitted by your cell phone does nothing adverse to you.

We would be foolish to not consider what all the radio waves that are being transmitted are doing to us. Probably not good.

Some friends told me about a friend of theirs who was paranoid about a nearby nuclear plant. This guy actually owned his own Geiger Counter. Carried it around with him all the time. They said he was a real pain with that thing. I told them to go buy some wicks for coleman lanterns. Leave them around his house and car.

A friend of mine who owns a gauss meter figured out pretty conclusively that the refrigerator/freezer, clothes dryer, and nearby high voltage power lines are the most significant sources of e/m fields in a domestic setting.

Edited by Horowitzian (04/05/1310:59 PM)

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Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

I sleep with an aluminum foil (erroneously called tin foil) hat on. It makes my head sweat and itch a bit, but it protects me from my refrigerator EM, and the government can't read my mind or mess with my dreams.

I was involved in testing emf for this very reason. Worked under a couple engineers. They found the highest fields were from hair dryers. Then, things like blenders, vacuum cleaners. Cheaper appliances you use in your hand. Outside power lines were nothing compared to this stuff. They found that the refrigerators, washers, dryers... no comparison to the others mentioned.

Well that's a tricky one, and as this thread demonstrates a pretty polarizing issue. Lots of people like to worry about it, and lots of people like to make fun of those who worry about it. IMHO the reality is, like many of the things we are introducing into our daily environment we really have no idea what the long term health effects are.

FWIW I happen to be an EE with a background in microwave communications and radar systems, though I've been in fiber-optic microelectronics for the past ~10 years. That's not to say I pretend to be any sort of an expert on the health effects of EM radiation, I just know enough to realize that most of the arguments presented on the topic don't make much sense.

A couple of somewhat important points that are usually glossed over:

- The energy conveyed by an EM wave is directly proportional to its frequency. So for the same power level, a cell phone or wifi signal operating in a GHz band has about 10-1000 times more energy than TV/Radio signals. As mentioned motors/compressors etc in household appliance can create substantial amounts of EM radiation, but at 60Hz, these have about 83 million times less energy per watt than a 5GHz wifi signal.

- The power density of a transmitted EM wave typically decreases with the square of the distance from the source. So your own wifi base station 10' away is effectively about 1000 times more powerful than your neighbor's 300' away. Similarly a 50W cellphone base station a mile away produces about 1/15th the local power density of an 0.125W cell phone 1' away.

Combining these two points, the absorbed energy from a 50,000W 100MHz FM transmitter 5 miles away is roughly 1/300,000 that of an 0.125W 2GHz cell phone 1' foot away.

The power level of a wifi router is rather small compared to a cell phone, about 0.028W vs. 0.125W. It can be up to 2X in frequency, but energy is still lower and its usually not as close as your cellphone. However, your cellphone power is intermittent, it varies depending on signal strength (more power when weaker) and just checks in on the network periodically at low power unless in active use. Wifi is typically on all the time.

Does it concern me? Yes. Does their seem to be any solid evidence its harmful? No. Is it feasible that long term exposure to close sources of high frequency EM radiation could have long term effects on health or behavior? Probably. Have the studies been done to show beyond a reasonable doubt that they don't? No. Will they ever? Doubtful. Proving long term effects on large populations at low dosage is extremely difficult, and given how much money there is to be made on wireless technologies there is not much incentive.

FWIW I have wifi, use a cellphone, and only hide in our Faraday cage here at work occasionally

On the other hand, why not turn off your wifi and anything else you don't need at night? It may or may not make any difference, but you might as well save a little electricity

I always used to get a kick out of the story one of the grey beards at my co-op used to tell about doing field testing of a microwave antenna system on an aircraft carrier in the North Atlantic. Apparently several times a day they'd have to go up and shoo the seamen on watch away from the antenna, because they had discovered if they stood right in the focal point it was nice and warm

May be the fishes liked that too. Thanks r you explanations. I just continue to notice a better sleep quality with all shut down.

The studies on risks are made by a state laboratory working on Industrial risk, even with some probing results, the regulations will be as hard to vote than laws to fight fiscal fraud to Luxemburg, Switzerland, Caiman Islands, etc..

WIFI is not allowed in some German schools (it may depend of landers) .

Of course searchers are approached by the cell phone companies, they are also interested in the results. Then they can also push some direction. Those things where in the classified secret range (and are yet) so it is indeed difficult to have good information.Thank you for your explanations.

Btw I felt a "tick" in the central nevralgic point above my eyes when I powered on my cell phone today. Not a pain, something.... I suspect that this only helps to raise our stress level, if our body perceive that as agression..

I wil forward the English document, they believe that it is the regular peaks in some of the composites of radiations , that where responsible for the effect , as the level of exposure was very low (eating more, modified paradoxal sleep)..

_________________________
Professional of the profession.

I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

A friend of mine who owns a gauss meter figured out pretty conclusively that the refrigerator/freezer, clothes dryer, and nearby high voltage power lines are the most significant sources of e/m fields in a domestic setting.

Yep! And this is easily verifiable by the interference to radio that these sources cause when they start to emit. A timer from a washing machine can send RF interference every 50Khz up and down the dial. As someone said in a reply earlier, turning off wifi does absolutely nothing to reduce your exposure to RF or electromagnetic fields.

I sleep with an aluminum foil (erroneously called tin foil) hat on. It makes my head sweat and itch a bit, but it protects me from my refrigerator EM, and the government can't read my mind or mess with my dreams.

I always used to get a kick out of the story one of the grey beards at my co-op used to tell about doing field testing of a microwave antenna system on an aircraft carrier in the North Atlantic. Apparently several times a day they'd have to go up and shoo the seamen on watch away from the antenna, because they had discovered if they stood right in the focal point it was nice and warm

Rob

Those high gain microwave dish antennas can definitely generate heat, and standing next to one while transmitting can definitely expose you to levels well beyond the MPE (maximum permissible exposure). And yeah, they will definitely heat you up!