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This team needs to be blown up (OLD thread!! 2012)

Last year was fools gold. Besides Stephenson, we have nobody that can beat their man off the dribble and create their own shot. Management doesn't like Lance and was dumb enough to sign Green just so they didn't have to give Lance minutes this year. Hibbert is too slow to consistently be effective, and his contract is laughable. Unless he is in black hole mode, David West also appears too slow to compete in today's NBA. Paul George has shown no improvement since his rookie season, and should be moved. Let somebody else get stiffed on a supposed "franchise" player of the future. If George Hill is your starting PG and the best player, your team is in serious trouble. Our entire bench would be 12th men on contending teams.

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Last year was fools gold. Besides Stephenson, we have nobody that can beat their man off the dribble and create their own shot. Management doesn't like Lance and was dumb enough to sign Green just so they didn't have to give Lance minutes this year. Hibbert is too slow to consistently be effective, and his contract is laughable. Unless he is in black hole mode, David West also appears too slow to compete in today's NBA. Paul George has shown no improvement since his rookie season, and should be moved. Let somebody else get stiffed on a supposed "franchise" player of the future. If George Hill is your starting PG and the best player, your team is in serious trouble. Our entire bench would be 12th men on contending teams.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I disagree with 90% of OP's statements. But I do believe we should try to land another scorer. At this point, I believe our most tradeable asset is this years #1 draft pick (likely lottery). Coupling that with a serviceable expiring contract (west, DJ) may yield a couple of options.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I don't think that it needs to be "blown up" but I think they need to make some trades, at this point I trade anybody but Paul George and Hill.

Agreed, but I would take it a step further: if anyone offered us a really sweet deal, such as lottery picks, I would have an open mind about these two.

I think we could get something halfway decent for West on an expiring contract, but other than him do you really see there being much of a market for anyone else on this roster? I just can't see it unless we are trading garbage for garbage.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Maybe Larry Bird IS walking through that door at seasons end? I mean this sincerely, maybe this is a situation that gets his blood pumping again, lets him have his hand at righting the ship, if it doesn't get corrected on its own.

Two things: Walsh will say, if he hasn't already that they need to see how this team does over time. So, as Pecks says on Odd thoughts today, a fix will have to come from within if it happens this season. Secondly, that doesn't mean they can't and won't hand the wheel back to Larry in May. I think you can argue whether he's the answer going forward or not, but he's as straight forward as you can get.

Blown up is a really tough way to go, in its true sense, plan on sucking for 5 years, not sure the franchise or city can endure that. Now, rearrange the things if they don't get better, absolutely, but it won't be Donnie doing it, maybe KP, but my money is on Bird.

So here we are 4-7 heading out west in a week, after looking awful in all but about 2 or 3 quarters all year. I think they are better than what they've shown. I don't think what we've seen, so far, is the norm. Its too big a drop. I think they start to play tied together lock down defense and have a HUGE upgrade to below average offensively. I'm not chatising for the negative reactions, hell, I'm with you, its unwatchable. I'm just saying lets get through the middle of January and see if they are still standing, things get much more favorable the last few months. Its a marathon, not a sprint. I don't see how blowing it up is an option, unless there's a Lebron or Durant in this AND next years draft, it could mean blowing up the Pacers in Indiana. That, none of us are for.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Kind of, my thinking is when you want to blow it up you don't think about keeping anybody, in my case I'm thinking about keeping 2 players maybe 3.

In reality I don't expect Danny(because of injury and contract), Roy(because of suckiness and contract), Green(see Roy) and Ian(see Roy) to go anywhere, so at the end of the day the Pacers are keeping 6 to 8 players from the current team.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Agreed, but I would take it a step further: if anyone offered us a really sweet deal, such as lottery picks, I would have an open mind about these two.

I think we could get something halfway decent for West on an expiring contract, but other than him do you really see there being much of a market for anyone else on this roster? I just can't see it unless we are trading garbage for garbage.

It seems the same thing is true about this year's team as last year's team. No one is really untouchable. If the Pacers can make a trade to get a better player back than they give, they would do it. That much seems clear. What probably isn't going to happen is a trade where the Pacers trade a player for a pick and a prospect or two. I could see a player and a pick or a player and another player going out for a better player coming back. But there is no chance the Pacers 'blow it up' this year. This bunch will be given the chance to do what they do this year.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

I hate to burst your bubble but be cool. This is a game where you can really say missing Granger hurt. We have had some games where we could have had Granger and it would make no difference. This was not one of them. Add at least 16 from Danny. Take a few points from NY due to his defense. Add a few for Roy due to being able score eaiser and Spread 6 between Green, Young, and Lance What does that give you? Lets break down a scenario. 76-15 (Green, Young, Lance) + 16 (Danny) + 6 (Lance, Young, Green) +4 (Roy)=87 Ny 88-2 (danny's d) 86 Pacers WIN. I'm not saying this is how it would have went down, just an example.
Newsflash were going to lose games to good teams who have a full roster!

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

Well, there's only so much blowing up you can do if nobody wants the players you've got.
I'd say
1. To trade Roy or Granger at this point, you'd get no value at all. So you're better off hoping the former gets it together and the latter gets healthy.
2. I don't that trading GH would help, since whatever hole you filled by trading him, another would be opened up by his absence.

I'd be open to trading PG if it'd get us something we need, but at least at the moment we sort of need him as well, with Granger being hurt. He might not have turned into the franchise player some folks expected, but he's a generally solid player. And still has some time on his rookie deal, so he's got some value. One sort of move to consider would be trading him for another younger player whose existing team things is going to leave. It wouldn't be completely crazy to imagine trading him for a guy like Tyreke Evans. Evans is much more of an offensive player than PG, and he would bring something to the team. He's in the last year of his rookie deal, and thus, Sacramento has sucked, so they might be willing to take back a talented and cheaper player like George rather than pay or lose him for nothing.

Tyler is sort of our version of Evans. He's shown something, but I don't look at him and thing "man, it's essential we keep him", and I think there's a strong possibility he could go somewhere else. Bigger guys that can score always get raises. For us... not sure he's worth it. Some team that could really use scoring (besides us) might be able to make use of him, but I doubt they'd give up that much to have a look. Maybe they'd give up a similarly flawed player on a similar contract.

West... he seems like the most obvious trading "chip" we have, in that he's a good player on a reasonable expiring contract. Any team in the league, but especially good ones should be happy to have him for a playoff run. But... I'm pretty confident that we'd absolutely implode without him. So that's an issue. And while lots of teams would like to have him, most teams that are good aren't going to give up too much for him because... then that would defeat the purpose of making a trade in the first place. He's the sort of guy who you'd either get back a player on a longer deal for, or a pick. Which are reasonable returns, i guess, but still not exactly outstanding.

Best case scenario I can think of:
1. Paul George for Tyreke Evans
2. Tyler, West for Caleron, Ed Davis, maybe a pick.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

Last year was fools gold. Besides Stephenson, we have nobody that can beat their man off the dribble and create their own shot. Management doesn't like Lance and was dumb enough to sign Green just so they didn't have to give Lance minutes this year. Hibbert is too slow to consistently be effective, and his contract is laughable. Unless he is in black hole mode, David West also appears too slow to compete in today's NBA. Paul George has shown no improvement since his rookie season, and should be moved. Let somebody else get stiffed on a supposed "franchise" player of the future. If George Hill is your starting PG and the best player, your team is in serious trouble. Our entire bench would be 12th men on contending teams.

and i have a better idea for you. don't read this thread. it's easier than following another team. just try.

trust me everone on this board including the ones in this thread wants this team to be good. but we suck right now and we want this to change as much as you do. this is a thread where people write their opinions on how to change it. call it overreacting, kneejerk i don't care. the thread title perfectly explains what kind of things will be written in this thread. if you don't want to see those overreaction posts don't read. and if you disagree just say it without telling people ******** like to follow other teams. this "we want/know the best for this team, you jerks are just overreacting" attitude is just ****.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

The main problem, again, is that we don't have a true PG. Hill is a good player, but he isn't a PG. This was a glaring flaw going into the off-season that TPTB failed to address. So the offense is still struggling.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

They don't like him. Traded for Barbosa last season and signed Green this year. Theses two took Lance's minutes

Well he hadn't exactly shown a reason to be placed within the rotation until this season. When you're in "win-now" mode you normally go with guys that have demonstrated an ability to produce, not a 2nd round pick who hadn't shown anything except a few good games in summer league. Dont get me wrong, I love Lance, but he his play hadn't warranted many mins till this year.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

This is a poorly constructed team. All the signs were there after we had Miami on the ropes, and then lost 3 straight. We don't have a "go to" scorer, and its impossible to win without one. Last year was awesome, but its in the past and is looking like a fluke. Thinking this group will get things together and play like last years team is irrational and a fantasy

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

Re: This team needs to be blown up

This is a poorly constructed team. All the signs were there after we had Miami on the ropes, and then lost 3 straight. We don't have a "go to" scorer, and its impossible to win without one. Last year was awesome, but its in the past and is looking like a fluke. Thinking this group will get things together and play like last years team is irrational and a fantasy

You can win without a "go to" guy if you have a good offensive system and a PG that can run it. We have neither.

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Re: This team needs to be blown up

I think we are a very slow team, both Hibbert and West or Hill aren't the most agile players on their position so ball movement is rather slow as well. Especially if you take into account that some of our core players aren't the best ball handlers either.

With that being said you need either someone who can create his own shot and draws occasionally a second defender or you need someone who can penetrate by attacking the rim in order to create space for the rest of the team. In my opinion we lack both. The slashing was the one strength of Collison, but he lacked other things to make me miss him.

So while there are many advantages our current lineup brings to the table -defense, length, rebounding- there are still significant flaws that have to be addressed. Yes, I still hope that Paul George gets more aggressive on offense and handles the ball better but honestly I don't see that happening (this season).

Ideally the person who's able to create his own shot is also a threat from beyond the arc.