So sorry Pink Butterfly Lady. I cound not believe it when I read the article about the bomb squad blowing up your micro. Some thoughts on that, it was well hidden. It sound like someone didn't put it back right or someone purposely left it out in the open (sitting on the ledge of the sign). It did not have any wires on it like printed in the newspaper. It wasn't marked on the outside but that would give it away if it were. There was a paper on the inside stating it was a geocache. The article upset me because it made it out to seem like geocachers are irresponsible. The article stated that an on looker watched the whole thing go down, knew what it was, & didn't say anything! I also think it's possible that our caches around here are being sabotaged. My mirco like PBL's was well hidden (you had to reach to find it) was muggled. Border Jumper's multi was muggled - both parts! Now this cache. What's going on here? We should all keep good watch on the rest of our caches here. Davidson 7 is thinking about writing a letter to the editor about this whole thing. What are other peoples thoughts? How do you feel, Pink Butterfly Lady? Hey, you got your name in the paper at least!
Mipster

hollora

08-11-2008, 08:24 AM

Can we get a link to the article or a copy? This is not the first cache which has been decommisioned by a bomb squad or swat team. My local law enforcement knows the location of local caches.

Davidson 7

08-11-2008, 11:21 AM

Unfortunately the Calais Advertiser has not completely joined us in this era of posting most of their articles online. If you go to their site you'll find a joyful picture of Canadian and US Customs shaking hands, but nothing on this event at all. I'm not happy with the entire tone of the article. There is a line in the article that quotes Sgt. Greg MacAvoy of RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) as saying, "...I think the message we need to get out to geocachers is that they should make certain what they leave behind is readily identifiable for what it is, a geocache, and not something else or a bomb." To me, that paints geocachers as being irresponsible. I think the message that we need to get out to Sgt MacAvoy is that most of the time people follow the guidelines from Geocaching.com and caches are labeled.

Also, I agree with Mipster on the curious nature of the "find" and report to authorities. When I found this cache it was very well hidden, and difficult to spot. It could have been put back improperly, but with the disappearance of some of our area caches lately I do wonder. Border Jumper's multi disappeared.... it's difficult to muggle a multi without coords. I wish I knew the circumstances surrounding the "find" and the report!

brdad

08-11-2008, 12:35 PM

As a cache owner, you are responsible. Especially with urban caches, it's easy for a cache to be confused with something else. And, with all the possibilities of someone watching, someone finding the cache could be perceived as suspicious.

One of the most responsible things an urban hider could do is inform the local law enforcement about Geocaching. It could be to everyone's advantage to know where these caches are.

I've also come to the opinion that one of the most irresponsible things a cache finder can do is be stealthy. IMO it attracts more attention than just going after it, and explaining to anyone that catches you doing so what caching is. This is not an underground activity; it is not illegal. So why do we try and be so secrative? When a cache in is view of businesses and homes, you have no way of knowing who is watching, so there is always risk there.

You cannot blame anyone but the cache hider when things like this happen. I'm not saying that this or other caches were not placed with reasonable care and safety in mind. But it belongs to the cache owner, and you can be held accountable in these situations.

As far as caches being muggled, that is an unfortunate aspect of the game. :mad:

Guidelines that Apply to all Cache Types
For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line. And, while an ammo box or PVC pipe may be a great container if hidden deep in the woods, it may cause alarm if discovered in an urban setting. A clear plastic container or a microcache may be a better choice. In busy areas, avoid containers that look suspicious, including attachment materials like wires or tape. To reduce confusion and alarm when a cache is discovered accidentally, clearly label your container on the outside with appropriate information to say it is a geocache. Cover over any military markings with paint or a geocache sticker. Include an explanatory "stash note" inside your cache. Common sense in selecting hiding spots and containers can reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those who are unaware of our sport.

Kaching Karen

08-11-2008, 08:06 PM

I don't know that details about this cache that caused some problems, but I have just recently let the City of Augusta know about my caches. Yep, I want them to be aware of what is out there.

firefighterjake

08-12-2008, 07:41 AM

As a cache owner, you are responsible. Especially with urban caches, it's easy for a cache to be confused with something else. And, with all the possibilities of someone watching, someone finding the cache could be perceived as suspicious.

One of the most responsible things an urban hider could do is inform the local law enforcement about Geocaching. It could be to everyone's advantage to know where these caches are.

I've also come to the opinion that one of the most irresponsible things a cache finder can do is be stealthy. IMO it attracts more attention than just going after it, and explaining to anyone that catches you doing so what caching is. This is not an underground activity; it is not illegal. So why do we try and be so secrative? When a cache in is view of businesses and homes, you have no way of knowing who is watching, so there is always risk there.

You cannot blame anyone but the cache hider when things like this happen. I'm not saying that this or other caches were not placed with reasonable care and safety in mind. But it belongs to the cache owner, and you can be held accountable in these situations.

As far as caches being muggled, that is an unfortunate aspect of the game. :mad:

Agreed and agreed . . . I have personally spoke with a member of the Bangor PD Bomb Squad about geocaches and their placement and he wasn't too worried about them . . . and as Dave said . . . while I used to be quite sneaky around caches and folks now I often will just go about my business and find them . . . if folks ask questions I'll tell them what I'm doing -- as he said, we're not doing anything illegal and sometimes being sneaky just calls even more undue attention to ourselves.

Sabby

08-12-2008, 07:56 AM

As a cache owner, you are responsible. Especially with urban caches, it's easy for a cache to be confused with something else. And, with all the possibilities of someone watching, someone finding the cache could be perceived as suspicious.

One of the most responsible things an urban hider could do is inform the local law enforcement about Geocaching. It could be to everyone's advantage to know where these caches are.

I've also come to the opinion that one of the most irresponsible things a cache finder can do is be stealthy. IMO it attracts more attention than just going after it, and explaining to anyone that catches you doing so what caching is. This is not an underground activity; it is not illegal. So why do we try and be so secrative? When a cache in is view of businesses and homes, you have no way of knowing who is watching, so there is always risk there.

You cannot blame anyone but the cache hider when things like this happen. I'm not saying that this or other caches were not placed with reasonable care and safety in mind. But it belongs to the cache owner, and you can be held accountable in these situations.

Well said brdad.

One thing I find very upsetting is the comment in a writeup "Be Stealthy, high muggle area". The hider is the one responsible if the cache disppears, you have to expect it if you place a cache in a "high muggle area".

I also think that the comment leads new cachers to believe that they should "be stealthy". The best thing is to "blatently go look for it and explain the game to those who ask".

Medawisla

08-12-2008, 09:34 PM

Agreed and agreed . . . I have personally spoke with a member of the Bangor PD Bomb Squad about geocaches and their placement and he wasn't too worried about them . . . and as Dave said . . . while I used to be quite sneaky around caches and folks now I often will just go about my business and find them . . . if folks ask questions I'll tell them what I'm doing -- as he said, we're not doing anything illegal and sometimes being sneaky just calls even more undue attention to ourselves.

Although, no one from Home Depot seemed concerned during Hiram's stealth stunt...tehehee

hollora

08-12-2008, 10:21 PM

MSP, of which my husband is a retiree, is aware of Geocaching. But they are not aware of specific locations - and given a complaint - things may happen.

Nothing counts when things can not be identified. A cache was found, I think last year, in a Northbound I-95 rest area. After it was destroyed by the Swat Team - guess who got a cell phone call........."Hollora, did you have a Geocache..........?" It was my user ID, which the Sgt. knew and it was still readable on the shredded log.

We talked about the location and the cache history. They had gotten a call for a suspicious item. It may well have been the persons who were messing with the cache anyway who made the call. Regardless, the SP did what they should have not knowing what the item really was - the cache owners seemed to understand.

We all need to take responsibility for what we place. We all need to remember too, if there is a cost to irradicate our placement - there may be a cost to us personally if the town/agency/state/etc. choses to recover their costs.

JMHO

Border Jumper

08-13-2008, 08:09 AM

Having found the cache in St. Stephen, I can't believe they even considered it may be a Bomb. Working in law enforcement as a Corrections Officer and a Dispatcher, I know Calais PD is well aware of what a Geo cache is and would not mistake a Micro (film canister) for a bomb. All I can say is the RCMP overreacted on this and wasted a lot of tax payers money. The only solution I can see is as Geocachers we are going to have to educate he local constabulary about Geocaches. To prevent another episode with the Bomb Squad. :eek:

Border Jumper

08-13-2008, 08:15 AM

I have to agree both parts where well hidden and would be hard to find accidentally. In order for some one to find both parts they would need to know where to look for them. I have yet to decide if I am going to reactivate this cache.

EMSDanel

08-17-2008, 09:20 PM

I agree with some of this and disagree with some. I will use "stealth" whenever necessary and did so just tonight in downtown Bangor by the library. By that I mean I waited for someone to leave the immediate area before I reached for the cache. I also waited for passers by to pass on by before I grabbed the cache right out in the open. To do otherwise is to greatly increase the chances of that cache turning up missing...and do NOT blame the owner for that. When looking in the woods or along a trail and someone asks what I am looking for I'll tell them that I work for a survey company and I'm looking for a boundary stake, etc. which always seems to work. However, I DO agree that when observed (caught) by others it is always best just to come right out and tell them about geocaching. They are often intrigued by that and may even take up the sport themselves. In summary, I believe strongly that it's my duty during my search to not call attention to everyone that there is a cache there and, if I am observed, do what I can to educate them to what geocaching is and what fun it can be. Re: SWAT Teams and bomb squads. Most of my caches are labeled on the outside in some fashion. My film canisters have the green stickers on the outside, unless they are like the piano key or playing card series. Even most of my animal caches say "Geocache" on the outside somewhere. It's the right thing to do.

Davidson 7

08-20-2008, 10:54 AM

I agree with EMSDanel. We handle caching the same way.... using stealth often times preserves the cache, but sometimes we need to talk about what we're doing. The situation determines the action. Labeling is a quick and easy fix it seems, but as Catmando pointed out to me as we were discussing this, anyone can slap a geocaching sticker on something. We can only do the best we can, labeling the caches and letting our local LEOs know.

We're still watching our caches around here pretty closely.... some containers that shouldn't be wet on the inside have somehow turned up soaked, and travel bugs are going missing as well as entire caches. It's discouraging, but we'll keep plugging away.

hollora

08-20-2008, 10:21 PM

Am sorry to hear about the troubles "DownEast". Wet caches when they have no reason and missing TBs does cast suspicion.

Had to laugh at my hubby - who doesn't understand the sport totally. He said, "well, if they are being muggled - let's just get some sneak thief powder and doctor one of them up". That would work fine for the muggle but what about the "REAL" cacher. I just had to laugh - poor dear was trying to help.

Remember - what goes around - comes around. Just be patient. Hubby's other rule is a good one - "give the perp enough rope and they will eventually hang themselves". That is tried and true - so my friends - keep stringing the rope!