When to see a doctor
When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may not want to think that anything could be wrong  doing so wouldn't fit with your self-image of power and perfection. But by definition, a narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of your life, such as relationships, work, school or your financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and confused by a mix of seemingly contradictory emotions. Others may not enjoy being around you, and you may find your relationships unfulfilling.

And this

Causes
By Mayo Clinic staff
It's not known what causes narcissistic personality disorder. As with other mental disorders, the cause is likely complex. The cause may be linked to a dysfunctional childhood, such as excessive pampering, extremely high expectations, abuse or neglect. It's also possible that genetics or psychobiology  the connection between the brain and behavior and thinking  plays a role in the development of narcissistic personality disorder.

Yes go to the forum, it helped me as npds are a whole other class of jerks who cheat.

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous!

Posts: 2214 | Registered: Jan 2013

gypsybird87♀ 39193Member # 39193

Posted: 7:30 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

Love the joke! Must remember that one....

My XWH is this exactly too. Cheaters are all basically corrupt, IMO, but the remorseless NPD type like mine are a whole other class that can barely be called human. How they function when they literally have NO self, and NO soul... is just beyond me. Part of me still hates him and part of me feels pity for him, since I know he's probably never going to be truly happy, and is going to spend the rest of his miserable life wondering WHY he can't be happy and having no clue how utterly fucked up he is. Mostly I feel bad for his family, especially his five kids. I'm free of him and his destructive ways, they are not and never will be. It's sad.

When I realized this was my XWH's issue, I checked out the NPD thread, and honestly I just felt kind of lost in there. Everyone there seemed to know each other already and there were lots of inside joke type postings. If anyone from that thread could advise me on trying to get involved, that would be great.

In the meantime, I found an awesome book called "Narcissistic Lovers: How to Cope, Recover and Move On" by Cynthia Zayn and Kevin Dibble. I got it from Amazon and it's been really helpful. You might check it out.

Follow your heart, but take your brain with you. ~ Alfred Adler
Letting go of the outcome is about the most empowering thing you can do for yourself. ~ LosferWords

Posts: 1497 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Oregon

Nature_Girl♀ 32554Member # 32554

Posted: 7:36 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

I've just been sitting back, waiting for you to make the connection. I figured you'd get there sooner rather than later once he started hammering on you about the dogs.

Website for you: Out of the Fog

Book for you: One Mom's Battle (great FB page, too)

You don't know what hell is until you try leaving someone with NPD or strong NPD tendencies. Be thankful you don't have children.

Never EVER mention the word narcissist or NPD to anyone. Not your lawyer, not your boss or pastor or counselor. You should describe your STBX's behavior, but you must let them draw their own conclusion about what's wrong with him.

The chances are pretty much non existent. My counselor told me even he would need inpatient, intensive therapy. And even then, it probably would not help. The only thing you can do is get him out of your life so he can stop slowly draining your soul.

D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010
DD - 6 years old
Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.

Posts: 4333 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY

ChoosingHope♀ 33606Member # 33606

Posted: 8:10 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

And here I thought it was the Narcissist lightbulb joke...
How many narcissists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Just one. He holds the light bulb up and waits for the world to revolve around him.

Splitting: How to Protect Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Oct 2011

Catwoman♀ 1330Member # 1330

Posted: 8:45 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

Erz,

As you know, I deal with a diagnosed narcissist (and for the record, the joke about the lightbulb is in the quote thread).

It is absolutely soul-sucking. They are relentless in their quest for validation (ego-kibbles, someone once called it). They use and manipulate and use again and see nothing wrong with it. The things that they do make those of us who are normally wired cringe give them nary a twinge.

Www.outofthefog.net is another good resource.

This is a rough ride--not only do you get the cheating, but you get the lack of remorse and having the person ou once considered a loving spouse become an enemy you cannot recognize.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 30004 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts

caregiver9000♀ 28622Member # 28622

Posted: 9:02 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

The thing that makes all the jokes about the N's funny to me is that they are "true." Instead of being sad and horrified all the time, laughing at the N is my way of taking the power out of the fear. It is like turning on the light bulb and refusing to be afraid of the dark.

There are a lot of jokes about N's. The ones that come closest to the behavior I see are the ones I remember.

What is it that Dr. Phil says? "You can't fix what you don't acknowledge?"

How many narcisstic people are going to acknowledge that trait in themselves? My guess would be close to zero.

Focus on yourself and YOUR happiness. He doesn't matter anymore.

People who cheat feel that life is for the taking, and that everyone deserves happiness no matter what the cost. I must remember these tricks if I ever have my soul surgically removed."
Me: BS 42. Him: WH 41 2 Kids 6&9
Married 14 yrs Together 21

Posts: 1596 | Registered: Aug 2010

Nature_Girl♀ 32554Member # 32554

Posted: 9:36 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

How many narcisstic people are going to acknowledge that trait in themselves? My guess would be close to zero.

BINGO!

I think most of us who have read my many descriptions of my STBX would agree that he's fairly high up there on the N scale. And yet when asked in counseling and in conversation and in the parenting eval if he thought he should seek help or get IC, he always answered no. Nope. Doesn't need it. Doesn't want it. There's nothing wrong. There is no problem. Everyone else has a problem, not him.

I have so many light bulbs going off right now, I need dark sunglasses.

So many things make so much sense - things that utterly befuddled me thus far. His sense of entitlement. His inability to acknowledge my emotions (except when I remind him that I have them - then he just gets dramatic). His self-destructive choices. His intimacy-aversion or avoidance. His self-effacing need for admiration - even from unadmirable sources. His reinvention of our history. His broken ego. His sabotage of stability. And on, and on ....

SO many things make crystal-clear sense to me now.

I never would have been enough; he is driven by a broken, self-destructive ego that craves unhealthy validation at all costs.

All in all ... it makes me sad for him. He robbed himself of an amazing, blissful life.

At least now, though, I am starting to understand why ...

A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.

Posts: 3377 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California

Housefulloflove♀ 38458Member # 38458

Posted: 11:10 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013

Cheaters are all basically corrupt, IMO, but the remorseless NPD type like mine are a whole other class that can barely be called human.

This! When I started reading about NPD (particularly the info about the covert kind) it was like reading something specifically about my ex. It was freaky as hell but they tend to have very rigid and similar responses to things. They are missing huge chunks of what makes up the human experience like empathy and introspection.

They have one focus and ONE focus only and that is to maintain the image of themselves they created in their mind. Everything they do is to support that false self they created and it warps them into twisted creatures that suck the life out of everyone misfortunate enough to be their primary supply. When reality and that image grows further and further apart they get nastier and more delusional to keep that truth from themselves. Learning all that made it easier to see that a life with him would never be fulfilling whether he one day acts remorseful and like the guy I *thought* he was or if "Mr. Good Guy" never shows up again.

It's so hard to understand how a person can live the way they do. But trying to understand helped me SO much in detaching from my ex. It helped me to understand that my feelings don't matter to him, never have and never will because he doesn't see me as a person, just a useful (but malfunctioning) extension of himself. For him, logic is only applicable to him if it supports the views he already has. I can't live with an irrational POS like that and my kids deserve better than to be at the mercy of his whims. They have lost so much this year like the family unit they knew for their entire existence to the house that was supposed to be their home for a very long time. They lost friends, security, cried many tears and are still dealing with shit no one their age should have to deal with. He doesn't give a shit. Their feelings, like mine, are not on his radar.

Reality to a narc is whatever supports their warped view of themselves. Anything that contradicts that is ignored or invalidated by any means necessary.

I couldn't understand how my husband of 10 years turned into an unrecognizable beast overnight. I had people suggest to me it was a brain tumor, a psychotic break, extreme reactions to guilt etc. Until I began reading about NPD I held on to the hope that as quickly as this evil thing appeared, it could turn back into the man I thought I married. But now I know that this thing is the man I married. This is really him underneath the mask he wears. Underneath the mask of a very needy "good guy" is this hideous thing with no empathy. I still struggle with it all and I'm sure I will for a long time. I get that he hates himself and I understand why he hides himself (the asshole underneath is not praiseworthy in the slightest) but I still struggle with understanding why he won't acknowledge and CHANGE himself. I think that is the most perplexing thing to me. It takes SOOOO much effort to maintain an image so opposite of what you are so wouldn't it be a million times easier to just BECOME that image to let that act go?

I know I'll never truly understand him because it's all so damn illogical so all I can do is except that he isn't what I want or deserve, detach and remove him from my life as much as I can considering we have children together. I don't regret my children but I regret choosing him to father them. I wish I could cut him out of my life entirely and never see or hear from him again.