TB/AB and Emotional Fortitude

This just bugs me.

I admit I have not always been the most emotionally stable person in the past, but now I like to think I am pretty strong emotionally. Very few things can make me upset, and when I do get mad, I deal with it in a controlled and calculated manner. I believe that in a crisis situation I can handle myself well.

However, I have seen many people demonstrate or admit on these forums that they are emotionally fragile, delicate or weak. By that I mean, prone to phobias, hysterics, paranoia, self-loathing, depression, crying fits, tantrums, pettiness or dependant behaviour. Now I'm all for dependency... as an indulgence from time to time, not a constant reality. It doesn't matter what I believe, reality demands that we live independently eventually, assuming we don't have such physical or mental disabilities that would prevent it.

My concern is that some people may enter into lives constantly seeking out dependence, which they rationalize because they are "emotionally fragile". This is a shameful situation, because it means you have become a leech and a parasite. Ok, maybe you have borderline personality disorder, but that still means you have get treatment and resist parasitic behaviour. Participating in such behavior without restraint is an arrogence best avoided.

The point is, you have to grow up at some point and get a backbone. Learn to be strong, even if you need a plushie to help you do that. You can't be an adult baby without the "adult" after all, and TBs will get to that point like everyone else (assuming they don't let emotional "fragility" lead to their untimely demise/suicide). Whatever you do, don't get into the trap of thinking that you are incapable on your own because of some emotional delicacy. There is always a way to shore up your weaknesses and play to your strengths.

It's just, and particularly in the TB section of the website, I see things like a massive craving for parental approval. Who gives a damn what your parents think? Learn to live on your own terms as much as you can now, because in a few years you will have no other choice. Learn to source your sense of approval from your opinion of yourself, not your fulfillment of other people's expectations. Honestly, no one should feel compelled to their parents about abdl stuff if they don't have to (e.g. been "discovered"), because it's just not parents' business.

What's more, I find myself very bothered by the idea of parents assisting their kids in their abdl adventures. The last thing I would want to do as a parent is promote dependance on me for a dependance promoting activity. It's like a double-whammy of infantilization (in the bad sense). With something like this, it's critical the parents ensure their kids participate in dependant activities from an independant frame of reference. That is, they aquire their own paraphenilia and organize their own fun within the common confines of decency and privacy. This way the kid manages the interest, not the parents, and the kid learns what it really means to be your own independant person.

The way I see it, ABDLs have access to many more ways to unwind and recompose themselves than the average person. We have the fortunate ability to tap into our childhood memories for an unending stream of positive feelings. If anything, we should be the strongest and most independent people out there. And while I know this is far from reality, I set it as a goal to work towards in lil baby steps.

For once, humans aren't like sea turtles who fight their way through life on their own. Turtles only meet other turles once per year - for mating purposes. Then they bury their eggs in the sand and head back out to the sea.
HUmans need interaction with other humans - and thus they inevitably enter relationships and become dependent on other people. So we need dependency to survive - not to a point where it would be comparable with ants (one ant is useless, an army of ants closely liked however can do amazing things). In that sense, it's normal to depend on other people. As a baby/child, you depend on your parents for every need you have, and later in life you depends on your friends, significant other, colleagues etc. Just look at the traditional married couple: One person works (so the family depends on that person's money), the other person raises the kids and takes care of household chores. Admittedly, western culture puts a bigger emphasis on independence than, for example, Asian cultures. But even in our culture, you cannot and will not function entirely on your own.

Of course there are extreme situations in which one person depends on other people way too much. This can be temporary and voluntary, for example in dom/sub (sexual) play, or the result of one person's fragility that makes the person seek the help/protection of another person. Up to a certain degree that can be healthy - it's like pooling resources: One person provides the emotional stability, and the other person provides something else. I don't necessarily see a problem with that. I'd never call those people "parasites" or "leeches" because, ultimately, they are the ones who'll suffer the most when the dependence is broken. The person they depend on is the emotionally more stable one and can probably deal more easily with the loss of the relationship. Plus it always takes two people for a relationship: If one person likes to be clingy and depend on the other, and the other person enjoy having someone to follow their lead and look up to them, it sounds like a perfect match to me. I don't think I have the authority to tell them not to get involved in relationship like that because it would be a blow to one person's independence.

On the other hand, you're mentioning parents and AB activities. That can hardly be considered a healthy relationship. An AB relationship provides an emotional aspect that's either of a sexual nature or at least a strong emotional bond that no teen or adult should have with their parents. I agree with you, I/D, that the craving for parental approval of one's AB/TB/DL activities is not quite healthy too, but part of the equation is the want/need to actually get TB stuff without being worried about parents finding out, and only the second component is the craving for the parents' acceptance. That, however, depends on the individual person's relationship with their parents.

So, in essence, it's not as easy as you think to jump to every person's throat who's thinking about telling their parents. Life's more complicated than black and white!

I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it, Incomplete Dude. It's pretty unfair to call such a general group of people parasites. A lot of the things you mentioned are extremely hard to resist (though surely not completely impossible, it's not easy). It's good to try to resist something like phobias, but sometimes the subconscious wins. Some of the other stuff might not be subconscious, but it can be just as hard to resist. You can't just suddenly change your personality and feelings. Actually, I really think the world should change. I think people are too independent (to the point that it just becomes greed), too judgmental, and just don't care about others as much as they should. I don't see that changing though.

I'm not very independent. I don't live alone and I don't really want to do so. (Unfortunately, I also don't really have any friends.... and I don't know how to make them. I never really did it before... I just waited for them to make friends with me. But enough about that) I do stuff around the house to help out a bit though (probably more than I realize lately, actually). I really just don't consider myself independent, but I'm no parasite either. And I really don't think it's fair that people are forced to move out of their parents' house (though many would move out willingly.... which isn't necessarily bad).

I made some stupid mistakes with my mom and infantilism. I expected her to buy stuff for me (at first), and that was a pretty stupid idea. It eventually ended with an argument... and now we've never really talked about the subject in the years since then. (Probably about 6 yrs. Not that there's really anything to talk about). So.... I agree that people probably shouldn't expect too much from their parents as far as infantilism is concerned. (though I don't think it's extremely terrible if the parents are accepting to some degree. Very few parents would be accepting to the point that it would cause problems anyway)

It's nice to try to be strong. I definitely agree that there's nothing wrong with that! However, it doesn't mean that everyone has to be the same way. If you don't like being alone, then you don't like being alone. As an example, I shouldn't force myself to want to live alone. If I had to though, I'd probably get by somehow, I guess.... doesn't mean I'd enjoy it. Sometimes, no matter how much you try to like something.... it just doesn't happen. I mean, I wish I could sorta program myself to do more stuff and avoid certain feelings (like loneliness and depression).... but it just doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry that I seem to have talked more about what I disagree with than what I agree with.... but I guess there wasn't much to say besides "I agree with this and that". I could probably have made a longer post, but this kept me up too long as it is!

I admit I have not always been the most emotionally stable person in the past, but now I like to think I am pretty strong emotionally. Very few things can make me upset, and when I do get mad, I deal with it in a controlled and calculated manner. I believe that in a crisis situation I can handle myself well.

However, I have seen many people demonstrate or admit on these forums that they are emotionally fragile, delicate or weak. By that I mean, prone to phobias, hysterics, paranoia, self-loathing, depression, crying fits, tantrums, pettiness or dependant behaviour. Now I'm all for dependency... as an indulgence from time to time, not a constant reality. It doesn't matter what I believe, reality demands that we live independently eventually, assuming we don't have such physical or mental disabilities that would prevent it.

I really disagree. Reality demands that we grow up and become less dependent. But what happens when a person gets married? The cycle of dependency begins again, because if we were meant to live completely independently, there would be no marriage.

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

My concern is that some people may enter into lives constantly seeking out dependence, which they rationalize because they are "emotionally fragile". This is a shameful situation, because it means you have become a leech and a parasite. Ok, maybe you have borderline personality disorder, but that still means you have get treatment and resist parasitic behaviour. Participating in such behavior without restraint is an arrogence best avoided.

Whoh. Talk about painting with a broad brush. Just because we're not all super strong and independent doesn't mean we're leeches and parasites.

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

The point is, you have to grow up at some point and get a backbone. Learn to be strong, even if you need a plushie to help you do that. You can't be an adult baby without the "adult" after all, and TBs will get to that point like everyone else (assuming they don't let emotional "fragility" lead to their untimely demise/suicide). Whatever you do, don't get into the trap of thinking that you are incapable on your own because of some emotional delicacy. There is always a way to shore up your weaknesses and play to your strengths.

So you're assuming that if someone is emotionally fragile and is a TB that they either will become independent or commit suicide?

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

It's just, and particularly in the TB section of the website, I see things like a massive craving for parental approval. Who gives a damn what your parents think? Learn to live on your own terms as much as you can now, because in a few years you will have no other choice. Learn to source your sense of approval from your opinion of yourself, not your fulfillment of other people's expectations. Honestly, no one should feel compelled to their parents about abdl stuff if they don't have to (e.g. been "discovered"), because it's just not parents' business.

I give a damn what my parents think. I want them to be supportive and approve of the things that I do. I'm completely dependent on my parents. I wouldn't be able to go to school (money), I'd have to get a job, my drivers license, etc. So just because I'm not as independent as I will be one day makes me a leech and a parasite?

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

What's more, I find myself very bothered by the idea of parents assisting their kids in their abdl adventures. The last thing I would want to do as a parent is promote dependance on me for a dependance promoting activity. It's like a double-whammy of infantilization (in the bad sense). With something like this, it's critical the parents ensure their kids participate in dependant activities from an independant frame of reference. That is, they aquire their own paraphenilia and organize their own fun within the common confines of decency and privacy. This way the kid manages the interest, not the parents, and the kid learns what it really means to be your own independant person.

Of course, a parent shouldn't raise their kid as a baby. But what is the problem with the parents being supportive, if both sides agree on things?

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

The way I see it, ABDLs have access to many more ways to unwind and recompose themselves than the average person. We have the fortunate ability to tap into our childhood memories for an unending stream of positive feelings. If anything, we should be the strongest and most independent people out there. And while I know this is far from reality, I set it as a goal to work towards in lil baby steps.

This I somewhat agree with, we should be really strong people and many of us are. But many people aren't as strong as some, and I don't think the average of the population of 14-20 year olds is that strong. Many people are dependent well into their 20's. As long as that person's parents are supportive, what's the problem?

First off, I'll say that I agree with pretty much everything Peachy said, and overall he put it very well.

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

It's just, and particularly in the TB section of the website, I see things like a massive craving for parental approval. Who gives a damn what your parents think? Learn to live on your own terms as much as you can now, because in a few years you will have no other choice. Learn to source your sense of approval from your opinion of yourself, not your fulfillment of other people's expectations. Honestly, no one should feel compelled to their parents about abdl stuff if they don't have to (e.g. been "discovered"), because it's just not parents' business.

What's more, I find myself very bothered by the idea of parents assisting their kids in their abdl adventures. The last thing I would want to do as a parent is promote dependance on me for a dependance promoting activity. It's like a double-whammy of infantilization (in the bad sense). With something like this, it's critical the parents ensure their kids participate in dependant activities from an independant frame of reference. That is, they aquire their own paraphenilia and organize their own fun within the common confines of decency and privacy. This way the kid manages the interest, not the parents, and the kid learns what it really means to be your own independant person.

In regards to *B/DL stuff, I agree with you just about dead on. In the vast majority of situations, I don't think it's a good idea for teenagers to tell their parents about being a TB/DL, and I think it's expecting way too much to expect parents to be accepting of it. And in general, I think most parents would be really uncomfortable participating in their kids' TB/DLism in just about any way. Of course, there are exceptions to all of this, but that's what they are...exceptions.

But...in regards to dependency on parents from teenagers, I think there's a balance. Adolescence is a really interesting time in someone's life because it's when they really start becoming an individual and moving away from being dependent on their parents. But...this process takes time, and it works differently for different people. You can't expect everyone to suddenly become removed from their parents, especially when they still live with them and are financially dependent on them...and for the vast majority of teens, this is the case.

I also think that for adults, even, there is still a relationship with parents. Now, how deep this is will vary from person to person. I'm 25 and living on my own, but I still like to see my parents once a week, and when I have problems I still ask for their advice or help sometimes. But at the same time, I support myself financially and in general I'm pretty free to live my life.

So like I said, I think there's a balance. Everyone's going to be different...some are going to be more "dependent" on parents than others, and there are a lot of different degrees of this I would consider healthy.

The main danger I see in being too dependent on parents as an adult is that in most cases, parents pass away before their children do...and the children have to be able to cope with that.. Not to pick on you, Shippofox, but that would be my only concern with a situation like yours. But...at the same time, I think parents passing away would be hard for just about anyone, and you could even argue that it would be more devastating for someone with a distant relationship with their parents than a close one (because the person might regret not having a closer relationship). So like Shippofox said, everyone's different, and everyone can find their own happiness in a variety of situations.

Anyway...I kind of got sidetracked with all of that. Basically...in general, *B/DL's should wait until they are financially independent from their parents before telling them about their *B/DLism, IMO.

To be clear, I don't consider a relationship where there is an exchange of value as parasitic, that is symbiotic and beneficial. There is a very big difference, and it is only the situations where someone takes without giving anything in return that I have a problem with. To note, even in family a child is invested with the hope that they will become someone good, giving the parent a sense of pride. So obviously, everyone lives in relationship, but they only last when they benefit both parties.

Moreover, I believe hardly any of us are in what I consider parasitic situations, but I do think there is a temptation to be drawn to it, and that is my concern. Thinking you can get something for nothing. The parents thing is just one aspect of this. It includes people who might be lured to "daddies" promising the world, or those that try to push their interests onto other people. Not everyone or even most people have such issues, but some certainly do. Posts demonstrating this are not that hard to find on this forum.

Finally, in reflection I am loathe to admit that part of my feeling on the parental issues are produced by the fact that I can never tell my parents. Yes, there may be a bit of jealousy in there. But that doesn't mitigate the fact that telling your parents is a huge risk in almost any situation, or change my opinion on them facilitating abdl activities. Still, I will say to the lucky few who have the luxury of the parental OK, enjoy it, take advantage of it without pushing your luck, and know that not every important person in your life will be so open minded.

I know I didn't respond to every question raised, but I'm not going to. I don't have the time, and some seem like invitations to pointless argument.

I admit I have not always been the most emotionally stable person in the past, but now I like to think I am pretty strong emotionally.

However, I have seen many people demonstrate or admit on these forums that they are emotionally fragile, delicate or weak.

For what it's worth, the initial tone of this kind of came off to me as a bit hypocritical, along the lines of "I used to be like this before, but now i'm not, and those of you who now are, bother me".

Also "reality demands that we live independently eventually, assuming we don't have such physical or mental disabilities that would prevent it." kind of points to a good bit of this being able to be considered a mental disability of sorts. It all depends on someone's upbringing.

You may look badly upon people who crave approval, and they may make bad choices in seeking this (As mentioned in your post, an example, the desire to tell parents about interests in this field), but life is nothing but a learning experience.

Not that i'm saying you are, but people who have a good life, then tell people who have a bad life to suck it up, may think they're doing good. But they can't have any empathy for the other's situation without having experienced any of it themselves. Another example are wealthy people saying 'money can't buy hapiness'. Sure it's easy to say that when you're close to the top of the heap, and all your worries are about staying up there, but these people also never had a 'christmas gift' of turning the thermostat up to 68 for that one day instead of 50 or 55 like it is the rest of the winter.

People's experiences also shape them.

Also if you lose control for some reason, and say, punch your computer (Maybe because it's within reach, and something bad happened or you just lost a game or it just crashed and NOW you lost a game, or whatever), there is a possibility you could, oh, I don't know, say, break the video card.

Well then you have to open it up, replace the broken part, and it's good as new and it doesn't remember a thing.

But if you lose control for some reason, and say, punch your child, there is a possibility you could break something inside them too. But if you don't and you think there's no harm because there's no physical injuries, do it more and you could easily break something in their heads.

And broken people aren't as easy to fix as slice open, insert spare part, connect, sew shut, lather/rinse/repeat. Let's not forget that not everyone wants a child either. It's possible to grow up the golden child in a 5 person family and have a wonderful upbringing. It's also possible to grow up the unwanted mistake of a cheap and/or broken prophylactic, and to be reminded of this constantly.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, love people for their strengths, don't hate them for their weaknesses. Maybe a polite rebuke here or there if their craziness manifests itself in a negative way. A lot of people can't help how they are.

Plus i'd rather know a 'broken' person who gets upset and issues forth a little text drama once in a while, versus a 'broken' person who grabs an axe and murders people or animals once in a while.

Learn to source your sense of approval from your opinion of yourself, not your fulfillment of other people's expectations.

i've lived by this saying for a long time now, but i've never known how to word it well. i've tried to explain it to my friends, but they couldn't grasp what i was saying. if i would have known these words eirler, i might have been able to better explain it.