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The Toronto fans seem to think that they're the ones getting screwed in this deal. If they think they're getting screwed and we think we're getting screwed, I really gotta hope this doesn't happen for everybody's sake!

They are gonna get screwed unless we screw up and cave into their demands. They will get screwed because VC wants out and he will get out. It's only a matter of time. While not equivalent, VC is Toronto's Shaq and we all know how the people in L.A. feel about the Shaq to Miami deal. Sometimes getting screwed is inevitable, just look at Mash with the Hornets and Ricky Williams with the Miami Dolphins.

Originally posted by 5O4Hornet I don't know what the infactuation about Magloire!?!? We would have Vince Carter, Jalen Rose, and Baron Davis!!! 3 athletes who can score the ball and you're worrying about Jamaal Magloire, who wont be anything special going into the west? The biggest center is in the East now, so who could you worry about at center? Nobody! The Hornets would be insane to lose out on this deal becasue of Jmaal Magloire!

Yao Ming and Tim Duncan for starters. Anybody who thinks just b/c Shaq is in Miami that we don't need a C and PF is crazy. Second of all We don't need and another injury-prone star on this team .Think if VC and BD are hurt at the same time (very likely) and we have no big men then we'd go in a tailspin again. Nothing against Carter but I don't want him for 3 reasons
1)this Baron Davis' team
2)this trade will stump the growth of are draft picks JR Smith, who is being called the next VC anyway and could be ROY this year.
3) Too many big ego guys on a team would be bad for Coach Scott, he needs character guys to help him in the locker room. look@ Jersey with J-Kidd and K-Mart. Big name guys can make a coach's life hell.

They are gonna get screwed unless we screw up and cave into their demands. They will get screwed because VC wants out and he will get out. It's only a matter of time. While not equivalent, VC is Toronto's Shaq and we all know how the people in L.A. feel about the Shaq to Miami deal. Sometimes getting screwed is inevitable, just look at Mash with the Hornets and Ricky Williams with the Miami Dolphins.

:smilie1:

From snooping around Raptors message boards, that's what some of them don't get. They are all talking about getting all these good players for VC, they need to realize that there not gonna get no big time player for Vince, plain and simple. The sooner they realize this, the easier it will be for them to take. I'm pretty sure almost any trade that the Raptors accept would have some Raptor fans hating it, but oh well, that's the NBA.

The Shaq deal should teach them. They need to stop thinking teams all over the league will throw everything at VC, and they are crazy if they think we will.

Like I said, if I'm Bristow, atleast we have already established some form of communication with Toronto. I'm pretty sure the Miami-LAL deal started off with LA wanting Wade, but Miami played hardball and were able to get what they wanted. It's ashame Bristow isn't as good as Riley, but he needs to play hardball with Toronto (if the deal comes back up) and get the best deal for us.

The only way we get VC is if BD and Magliore are there to play with him (unless we get Bosh or somebody). I know that sounds unlikely, but then again, I also thought LA trading Shaq to Miami without getting Wade was unlikely.

I've been scanning some of this topic and the Mags haters out there blow my mind. You want a fat lazy Eddy Curry instead of blue collar Mags? Mags is only 24 years old, he hasn't reached his prime yet! second Byron Scott didn't use center b/c he didn't have one! they tried to use Zo but he retired.
Vince Carter is "half-man, half-amazing" BUTafter last season's Mashburn "me first" attitude we don't need two guys like that in Rose and VC. Plus PJ Brown might be overpaid but he's a local guy who is good in the community-Shinn loves this guy and I am glad he is here.
I know a lot of fans who are blinded by hype in the NBA but these guys won't get us any closer to a trophy if we give up our frontline.

Everyone keeps saying how Mags in untouchable. Nobody in the NBA is untouchable. Ask shaq. But now here's where we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do we keep mags and make the playoffs again with lukewarm attendance and no excitement? Or do we risk being out of the playoffs with VC but selling out the arena everynight and making this team a "big" deal in the big easy. I want this team to succeed period. Whether its in attendance or wins, i'd choose wins. But this team has made the playoffs twice in N.O. and still no excitement around the team or in Louisiana. I'd pull the trigger. I'd rather have an exciting team than be 8th place and lose in the first round. We will not win a championship with Jmags and BD. Sorry, but we just won't.

I agree that the current deal really doesn't make much sense for either team. VC's popularity would be great for the Hornets but they lose their starting PF and C. Baron Davis and VC would easily be the best backcourt in the league but that wouldn't do much good with such a thin front court. Magloire being a C and Toronto native would be great for Toronto but they lose their franchise player. VC and Rose are the teams top two scorers and without them there would be virtually no perimeter offense.

{edited by mod - smack}

The ones who say you would love Vince but only if Baron Davis(great player) and Magloire(very good player, Toronto native) aren't involved. You do realize that the Raptors would only want one of those two guys, right? Why the hell would they trade Vince for any combination of Mashburn(injured), PJ Brown, DA, DW? It would be the equivalent of the Hornets trading Baron Davis to the Raptors for any combination of Rose(at least he's healthy) Donyell Marshall, Alvin Williams and Morris Peterson.

{edited by mod - smack}

And for the guy who said he would only make the deal if Bosh and or Aruajo were involved. LOL. {edited by mod - smack} Do you know who Chris Bosh is? Just to fill you in, he was the 4th overall pick in last years NBA draft behind Lebron, Darko and Carmelo. He's 20 years old and only played 1 year of college ball at Georgia Tech. Had he stayed another year he probably would have been the #1 selection in this year's draft. He put up 11.5 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 1.4 BPG, 0.8 SPG IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON. Not only did he do that, but he did it playing out of position at C at 230 pounds.

I don't think the Raptors would deal Bosh for Magloire straight up. And you talk about this guy like he's a throw in?

And if that wasn't bad enough, you say you want, "Bosh and/or Araujo."

The most popular player in the league, top 5 SG, arguably top 10 player in the league + one of the most promising young PFs in the league who was a top 5 pick 1 year ago isn't enough for JAMAAL MAGLOIRE and PJ BROWN?! You also would want Rafael Araujo who was the Raptors' #8 pick this year.

What's next, you don't want to involve Magloire at all? PJ Brown and Mashburn should be enough for Vince and Bosh shouldn't it?

Some of you guys blow my mind. How can you be enough of a fan to post on an internet message board but not even have the slighest idea of the value of certain players.

For the record, I hope this trade is just BS and I would be shocked if it wasn't. If Vince is going to New Orleans then Baron is the guy who should be coming back since those two are much closer in value than Vince and Magloire are.

Raptors fan, I was saying VC and Bosh/Marshall for PJ and Magloire makes more sense becuz the Raptors would still have a scorer in Jalen Rose (and your comment about him being a top 5 SG is just stupid) and they would still have great depth at PF and C with Marshall/Bosh, Aroujo, and Moiso. And the Hornets would get a good frontcourt player.

Originally posted by redhornet I've been scanning some of this topic and the Mags haters out there blow my mind. You want a fat lazy Eddy Curry instead of blue collar Mags? Mags is only 24 years old, he hasn't reached his prime yet! second Byron Scott didn't use center b/c he didn't have one! they tried to use Zo but he retired.
Vince Carter is "half-man, half-amazing" BUTafter last season's Mashburn "me first" attitude we don't need two guys like that in Rose and VC. Plus PJ Brown might be overpaid but he's a local guy who is good in the community-Shinn loves this guy and I am glad he is here.
I know a lot of fans who are blinded by hype in the NBA but these guys won't get us any closer to a trophy if we give up our frontline.

{edited by mod - smack}

Magloire is 26, not 24. And the Nets do have a center, his name is Jason Collins. And while I'm at it, have you guys heard of Eddie Jordan? He was the asst. coach under Scott and when he left to become the head coach of the Washington Wizards (they're another NBA team) last off-season, many believed Bryon would be fired very soon (and he was) because Eddie Jordan was the guy most believe was responsible for the Nets' style of play which was so successful. With EJ gone, Scott was pretty much useless to them.

Magloire is 26, not 24. And the Nets do have a center, his name is Jason Collins. And while I'm at it, have you guys heard of Eddie Jordan? He was the asst. coach under Scott and when he left to become the head coach of the Washington Wizards (they're another NBA team) last off-season, many believed Bryon would be fired very soon (and he was) because Eddie Jordan was the guy most believe was responsible for the Nets' style of play which was so successful. With EJ gone, Scott was pretty much useless to them.

yeah right, you are the smartest one out here, telling us what many believed...that EJ was the one who made the Nets the contender they were for two years...Scott was just a guy hired to run up and down the sidelines in a nice dark suit...i really hope the HORNETS aren't that dumb to do this deal as of now...

VC is as much hurt as Mash, Rose is a ballhog who can't defend...your team was right in the cellar rebounding-wise...JMag and PJ would change that in a heartbeat...HORNETS need both of them now being out in the WC...don't come here and tell us nearly everyone is clueless no matter what the subject is...

Originally posted by B-Diddy05 Raptors fan, I was saying VC and Bosh/Marshall for PJ and Magloire makes more sense becuz the Raptors would still have a scorer in Jalen Rose (and your comment about him being a top 5 SG is just stupid) and they would still have great depth at PF and C with Marshall/Bosh, Aroujo, and Moiso. And the Hornets would get a good frontcourt player.

Actually I was responding to the comments made by the guy who I think is a mod (LOL) on this board.

Yea I agree with you that subbing Marshall for Rose would make more sense since the Raptors would be left with a scorer and Marshall leaving would make room for PJ at backup PF. But what you have to understand is that Vince Carter for Magloire and PJ Brown is not an equal trade talent-wise. So if the Raptors GM (Rob Babcock) did want to include Rose it would be to dump his large salary. If Rose is taken out for Marshall (who has one of the best contracts for his production) then the Raptors are giving up Vince who is worth more than Magloire+Brown anyways and Marshall who is also worth more than Brown.

I agree, that would be a bad trade for the Raptors. If I were them, I would try to talk him into staying. Since they are gonna trade him, they know it's hard to get equal value in trades with the way the salary cap works. Look at the Shaq deal. The Lakers got an over the hill center, a one-dimensional PF, and a good young player for the most dominating player in the league. Not very equal. I wouldn't be suprised to see this deal happen, but I wouldn't be suprised to see it not happen. I am suprised that this deal was offered by the Raptors. Usually other teams make offers for the star players.

I have a gut feeling that the Hornets will take this trade. They need a lot more attendance (I think they were second lowest in the league), and VC would draw that. If they get Dampier or Keon Clark in FA, i think they would be a better team than they are now.

yeah right, you are the smartest one out here, telling us what many believed...that EJ was the one who made the Nets the contender they were for two years...Scott was just a guy hired to run up and down the sidelines in a nice dark suit...i really hope the HORNETS aren't that dumb to do this deal as of now...

I shouldn't have made it sound like Scott was crappy coach. What I meant to get across was that I don't think Scott is such a master of fast-break that he could get away with no C just because he would have Baron and Vince. Because in NJ, EJ may have been a bigger part of them being such a good running team and because even they did have a center.

And the useless comment was because of the rumours that him and Kidd really didn't get along. So without his top assistant who supposedly did get along very well with Kidd, Scott was no longer a good fit for them.

VC is as much hurt as Mash, Rose is a ballhog who can't defend...your team was right in the cellar rebounding-wise...JMag and PJ would change that in a heartbeat...HORNETS need both of them now being out in the WC...don't come here and tell us nearly everyone is clueless no matter what the subject is...

Vince is as hurt as Mash? He was completely healthy his first 3 seasons, then he got in season number 4, tried to play hurt but couldn't so shut it down for the season. Season 4 and 5 combined he missed a big total of 61 games but then season 6 (last season) he was back and played 73/82 games. Yes, he did have two bad seasons in terms of injuries but comparing him to Mashburn is a joke. Mash has missed 250+ games over his career and he's currently seriously injured.

You're right that Rose can't defend worth a lick but he's not a ballhog at all IMO.

Originally posted by B-Diddy05 I agree, that would be a bad trade for the Raptors. If I were them, I would try to talk him into staying. Since they are gonna trade him, they know it's hard to get equal value in trades with the way the salary cap works. Look at the Shaq deal. The Lakers got an over the hill center, a one-dimensional PF, and a good young player for the most dominating player in the league. Not very equal. I wouldn't be suprised to see this deal happen, but I wouldn't be suprised to see it not happen. I am suprised that this deal was offered by the Raptors. Usually other teams make offers for the star players.

This is a different situation though.

The Lakers were really in a tough spot because with Shaq demanding a trade and Kobe not willing to re-sign unless Shaq was moved, they had no choice but to get the best they could.

Vince is under contract for 4 more years, I think. Vince's problem is with some of the current management, Richard Peddie in particular. Visit firepeddie.com to learn more. But Babcock doesn't have to trade Vince, the guy is under contract and that's that. If Peddie isn't fired or they don't work things out and Vince still wants to leave, I think he would be smart enough to play hard until Babcock can get the best deal possible. It would be stupid for Vince to play half-assed just because he wants to leave because players understand it's a business and they're only lowering their value by doing so. And in turn, making it harder to get traded, which is what they want in the first place.

btw, Odom isn't a one-dimensional PF, the guy is one of the most versatile players in the league. Good all-around skills. But you're right that the Lakers didn't get nearly enough for Shaq.

Originally posted by Raptors_Fan
And for the guy who said he would only make the deal if Bosh and or Aruajo were involved. LOL. {edited by mod - smack} Do you know who Chris Bosh is? .....

And if that wasn't bad enough, you say you want, "Bosh and/or Araujo."

The most popular player in the league, top 5 SG, arguably top 10 player in the league + one of the most promising young PFs in the league who was a top 5 pick 1 year ago isn't enough for JAMAAL MAGLOIRE and PJ BROWN?! You also would want Rafael Araujo who was the Raptors' #8 pick this year.

I know exactly who those 2 are, which is why I said we'd want them - Toronto isn't going to stick us with 2 overblown contracts, an injury prone/pack-it-in on the team Carter and defenseless Rose for the the player who was the best Center in the East last year if we don't get something else in return. That Carter/Rose proposal would be an outright screw job by the Raptors. No way we include JMags in that without Bosh and/or Araujo in return (although Araujo would delay the deal until December according to something I read).

Originally posted by 5O4Hornet HH, it doesn't take much to rebound a basketball. There is only one way to rebound, and these are professsionals that has been doing it all their lives, so what does it matter if someone rebounds better that the other person. It's a rebound!! Hell, I bet Bambi could rebound a basketball, so it makes no sense what you're talking about.

Then why don't you tell the rest of the NBA teams when they overpay big men because of the demand for such skills.