sounds good. however, it is wishful thinking. there are people with poor facial symmetry who get yelled "UGLY" at in public all the time. i am speaking from personal experience.

i am not beautiful. and that's okay.

stop telling girls they need to be pretty. stop putting such a huge emphasis on looks. looks aren't what should be important. drop the importance of beauty. that way people will realise how okay it will be to not be beautiful. lying about how beautiful everyone is only makes discrimination worse for us genuinely ugly folk. make it less taboo for people to be ugly and i bet body image issues will be so much lower.

from the bullied, sad teenage girl with the overly long, narrow nose and bug eyes.

edit: the fact that everyones trying to deny how much looks matter is exactly why ugly people like me are discriminated against. nobody takes us seriously. there's plenty of evidence showing beauty is objective and matters so much to society. i feel like a broken record repeating myself.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetic surgery. It doesnt make you weak or some kind of traitor to feminism. Everyone should feel great about themselves and if a nose job will make you love what you see externally in the mirror by all means go for it.

I agree that absolutely no one should ever be shamed for having cosmetic surgery, but I'd really advise against it, and I don't think it's healthy to normalize it. Truth is it's far more sustainable to unlearn the societal norms and standards that are constantly being pushed down our throats, than deal with the very real repercussions of having cosmetic surgery.

I'm glad you're happy with your boobs, but fact is a lot of women suffer complications(sometimes after several years) and go on to explant.

I almost killed myself last year, and was literally diagnosed with a situational depression due to cosmetic surgery. Please consider all options and try to unlearn what you've been taught by society before to getting invasive surgery.

I'm sorry you that happened to you!! Thats awful!! I haven't met anyone who's had a bad experience but obviously we all have heard the horror stories. A lot of people have wonderful results. I dont think it's fair to take away from that. Procedures are safe now than they ever have been and thanks to the internet Drs are being held more accountable than ever before. I really hope you feel better. I just cant imagine what you must have gone through/going through.

Well, there's plenty of horror stories, but I wouldn't categorize mine as such. Truth is 15-20% of people are unhappy after rhinoplasty procedures and seek out revision rhinoplasty procedures. That's a pretty considerable amount. It's not about safety either IMO -- And what I'm about to say is highly emotive -- But it's about young women paying money to have someone break their noses! I understand that it's been normalized by society, which is exactly why I didn't think twice about it. I was only 17!

Studies have shown, that older women tend to get cosmetic procedures in order to restore their prior more youthful appearance, meanwhile younger women often seek out cosmetic procedures in order to acquire other people's features, for instance this is common in terms of "Wish pics" Where people will reference celebrities in order to get their "features" This should be looked upon as extremely alarming! In fact I think it's pretty scary that we'd rather break our noses than work(and I know it's hard work) to unlearn the societal standards and seek out self-love and acceptance. A huge part of self-acceptance is also not being able to accept every single part of yourself and it's completely fine to have insecurities.

People have to make their own decisions and go down their own path, but I can't stress how much I wish someone would've told me before I went down that path. My nose is more conventionally beautiful at this point, but it's not who I am.

I've heard nose jobs can be particularly difficult as far as accepting a new appearance. 17 is SO young!!!!!!! I waited until 25/26 (?) and I'm 33 now. I knew at like 21 I really was interested but I set that 25 limit to make sure I was really sure.

I think you're bringing up really thoughtful points. No one should walk in to a drs. Office and say give me x persons body part. That's not a healthy way to look at cosmetic surgery at all.

On a side note I'm glad to hear your actual process was successful in a medical way. I thought maybe something went wrong. I hope you can still be ok with your new nose, time heals most things. You honestly sound like a really beautiful person IMO.

Did you go up or down in size??? I’m only 20 but I kind of want to go just a tad bigger, I’m currently an A cup- I was a B before I had my son, a C while I was pregnant, but then they disappeared. I would love to be a B or C again, but I’m nervous about even getting immunizations, as far as the doctor’s office goes.

I went from a b to a large c. I was 25 though! 20 seems a little young honestly. My body changed so much between 20 and 25. I went to several drs and found one I loved which I think is the most important thing. I went to him because my friend did and I didnt even know she had hers done until she told me. Just dont ever do something you're not 100% comfortable with. Follow what the dr says for your pre op and post OP recovery.

Sometimes I feel like a traitor to this sentiment by wanting a nose job

I just wanted to tell you, that you really shouldn't get a rhinoplasty, as much as you probably hate your dorsal hump, there's a big chance you might feel worse about not having a dorsal hump. For the past year, I've been doing a bunch of research and it can seriously trigger some real identity issues and trauma. (It happened to me)

I'd encourage you to follow a bunch of beautiful women with a dorsal humps, it would make your outlook completely different. Sometimes we have to unlearn the unfair rigid beauty standards set in place for us. I can't emphasise that enough.

Sure you can. As I mentioned before, even though you might dislike your dorsal hump, it's an incredibly huge part of your identity(it's your face), so a lot of times people will see themselves after altering their nose and they won't be able to identity with their reflection in the mirror. It can literally cause a crisis, which is what happened to me.

It’s sounds awful to go through something like that, but I would imagine that it’s not the norm. It can definitely take some getting used to, seeing that the familiar face in the mirror is different, but eventually that “new” face becomes familiar too.
It’s a highly personal decision whether or not to get cosmetic surgery, and each person has to weigh out the pros and cons for themselves. If all you can see when you look in the mirror is a big ol’ nose looking back at you, and you fixate on it constantly and are convinced that everyone else is fixated on it, then rhinoplasty might be something to consider. Just don’t let anyone else make the decision for you.

Absolutely. However, I will say it's 15-20% of people that undergo rhinoplasty procedures that end up seeking out a revision. That's a pretty considerable amount, so I'd argue that it is somewhat "The norm"

Yeah, I’m actually in that situation myself, considering a revision. Even though my nose isn’t perfect, I’ve never once missed my old nose and I don’t regret the initial procedure. I was also 18 when I got mine done. For me, it allowed me to move past years of bullying and depression that I had been hanging on to and let go of my unhealthy obsession with my nose as the physical manifestation of my unhappiness. I was able to go off to college without that baggage and I haven’t looked back since.

I completely relate to your situation. I'm glad you were able to move on from years of bullying, that truly does something to your mental psyche, and I'm glad you're feeling better. I still think it's upsetting, that the solution for a lot of people tend to be cosmetic surgery. It really shouldn't be that way.

I'm seeking out a revision, in order to restore my original nose, although it'll never completely be the same, it's empowering for me to restore the features I once hated and embracing those and therefore embracing myself.

It all depends on how big a part your features play in your overall identity and sometimes you don't even realize. I'm so glad yours was a success, because there's nothing worse than going through a situational depression / identity crisis due to altering yourself.

I definitely agree that it’s sad that bullying can have such devastating consequences on a person, however the decision to get a nose job was mine and mine alone and I own that decision. The nose I have now is MY nose, even if I wasn’t born with it.

I can’t imagine what it would be like to not identify with the person in the mirror, but I do know what it’s like to fixate on one feature until it is blown out of proportion. The truth is that your original nose has been changed into the nose you have now, and there’s no way to change it back to what it was. Revision rhinoplasty is more complicated and carries more risks than the primary procedure, and there’s no guarantee that it will look like the original, or that you will even like it more than what you have now. Given the identity crisis you’ve faced with the first surgery, a second might be an even bigger shock to the system.

The acceptance that you’re extending to your future/past self might better serve your present self. If you view getting rhinoplasty as a big mistake, don’t make the same mistake twice. Embrace yourself as you are now, and know that the face you see in the mirror is YOUR face, and it’s only one piece of who you are are a person. Not that you asked for my opinion, just my two cents!

I truly am sorry that you’re going through this and wish you the best of luck going forward, whichever route you take.

Aw thank you. However, I will say that a revision is right for me. My nose will never be the same as before, but it's fairly routine to utilize spreader grafts etc to restore width. I've already been doing non-invasive tissue expansion in order to restore my nostrils and that has definitely been a life-saver for me. (:

someone posted the other day about how you just gotta figure out where that desire is coming from. is it society imposing on you to conform? or do you want to look a certain way for your own personal agenda and self confidence? its okay to dislike certain traits about yourself and even to change them if you see fit. if its all for you and its a genuine, personal desire, then its okay to want that nose job, even to get it. that’s your decision. as long as you don’t feel forced to do it then it’s really nobody’s business but your own and certainly doesn’t make you not a strong woman.

It may just be my mentality, but I have a habit of zoning out positive comments like the “everyone is beautiful” statement and only take in the more negative (yet also more “accurate” to society) comments. Is it just me? Or is it because the constant preaching of that message kind-of dilutes it’s meaning?

Been in the same boat. I had an unusually wide nose, went back and forth in my mind whether to get surgery for at least six years, maybe longer. Hated my nose since I was twelve.

Here's how it affected me: I stopped thinking about my nose, and my looks altogether.

Would I do it again? A million times. All the energy I wasted feeling like a monster finally returned to me. I don't feel beautiful, per se, but I finally feel free. I hated all "beauty from within" bullshit, people telling me to accept my nose. I still have a lot of shit that doesn't bring me down, like bad acne. I don't care about that, I really don't. I just hated my nose, and it was a feature I could not grow comfortable with.

I think, if you can fix a disaster, do it. If you can fix a minor problem, forget it. Someone else might rock your nose, you might feel perfectly happy with their jaw. In the end, not everybody wants to look the same. I believe we wont lose diversity even if plastic surgery is socially normalized.

Just think shit through before proceeding, like with anything. Be smart.

It does suck being ugly. I'm the least feminine-looking woman I know. I have a big, bulbous nose and giant ears that stick out. My teeth are crooked and I have an overbite that basically makes my chin disappear.

But it hasn't stopped me in life. I still graduated with cum laude honors and have dated lots of interesting and handsome men. I still plan to get back into college to pursue a new career. I've still traveled the country and done pretty much whatever I've felt like doing (tattoos, concerts, etc.)

I feel like if you make your personality only: "I am the ugly girl, hear me sob" - then people are going to view you as way more ugly than you really are. You gotta have a bit more punk and anti-establishment attitude (I know that sounds cheesy, but that's alright). Like...fuck it. Be ugly but still get your shit done and accomplish your goals.

Yeah for real. I used to be one of those women who thought I could get power over men by being sexually attractive. The quote about how powerful men who claim to be "powerless" before beautiful women are acting like adults letting a child win a game, pretending they didn't make the rules to begin with, really stopped me in my tracks. And it was the first thing that really helped my eating issues, because I stopped blaming myself for being shallow long enough to get angry about what had been done to me and the way body obsessions had stolen energy that I could have used in other areas of my life.

It hurts men and women not just women. Men grow up believing they are only worth something if “young and beautiful women” who are a “prize” to be won find them attractive. That’s why men have mid life crises and lose their wives that they love etc and then regret it dying alone and bitter. At least we are waking up to it - I don’t think they are at any relevant rate. Since they are less affected than we are (less directly and less frequently) I think they will continue suffering for quite a while longer than we have.

For sure. Actually, growing up as a queer woman, I internalized some of that to some extent. I share that like depressive male tendency to put femme women on a pedestal or look for a "manic pixie dream girl" or something, or feel like only attention from a conventionally attractive woman would validate me. The book helped me a lot in that way as well and made me realize how even I had unhealthy attitudes towards women.

What's funny is that it seems like a lot of men care more about having a partner they can show off and validate themselves with than one that they are compatible with. I think there are a lot of men who are attracted to a broader range of women but can't bring themselves to date someone who doesn't fit the mold of the "young, beautiful woman." I especially liked what Wolf said about our current culture teaching people to only value visual attraction and ignore the other senses.

Beauty is a subjective thing. It varies between cultures, time, and individuals.

The most beautiful woman I have ever met was the one I fell in love with. She doesn't wear makeup, is getting older, frequently wears shabby clothing, and I know objectively others see her as 'average' at best.

But...

I've known her for twenty years, and when I see her my soul sings. I've never met anyone more beautiful than she is.

Looks help for getting you in the door, no question about it. Far too many (most?) people choose someone based on attractiveness, even people who will swear that they don't do that have a bias for pretty people.

But really... Would you rather rather be with a beautiful jerk or a butt ugly sweetheart? No, it's not that black and white but that is a good place to start when considering the matter.

Finally, I think in the long term anyone whose partner chooses them based on looks is not going to end up in a happy place.

There’s a lot of stigma around dating someone less beautiful than you as well which is wrong. I’m not a hunk but still a pretty good looking guy and when I’ve dated a girl who isn’t real pretty some guys will make rude comments about it. As I’ve gotten older this has gotten better and I don’t hang out with shallow people like that.

I also once dated a girl who is 6’2” and I’m 5’7” the amount of comments about that astounded me, even from complete strangers on the street.

I think you’re right to accept how good you look otherwise you can’t ever feel good about yourself.

I don't know why you're being downvoted - aren't there actual studies that show how good-looking people are on average treated better in many aspects of life that are completely unrelated to romantic relationships? Like the job market and stuff like that? I fucking WISH that "hurr durr looks don't matter, only the inside counts", but people who actually believe that society doesn't care about looks are either delusional or have just never experienced life as an ugly person... Also, maybe some attractive people have a hard time admitting to themselves that some of their achievements were just a result of lucking out in the genetic lottery. People like thinking they're successful solely because of their hard work.

So true and I’ve even caught myself judging people about things by their looks that are completely unrelated. I’m really not sure why but it seems to be sub conscious unless you become more self aware.

My cousin is marrying a guy who is less attractive than she is. My mother made a comment that my cousin "is so nice" for marrying him, "because, well, look at him and look at her!" Depressing way to think.

i hate all the replies saying something along the lines of “everyone is beautiful to someone else” or “hur dur, man here, i can tell you that it’s not JUST a woman’s face that makes me find her fuckable!” they are completely missing the point.

i truly believe that there is someone out there for everyone, someone who will find someone’s “ugly” beautiful.... but that’s not the point. the point is that non-conventionally attractive people ARE treated badly. it doesn’t matter if YOU wouldn’t treat them badly, the point is that people in a general sense do. which is true. i’m a fat woman and because of this i’m seen as unattractive by a lot of people, and it used to garner me lots of negative attention.. i don’t go out in public as much anymore, unless i have to work, so i don’t really deal with it that often these days. but growing up fat and unattractive was a nightmare. people have driven by me in their cars and honked and yelled at me for being fat. and that’s not something that happened when i was in high school, that’s something that has happened in the past year. i’m an adult now and people are still rude to me because of my appearance.

it’s a fact that attractive people are treated better than ugly people. you’re naive if you don’t believe that. BUT it’s OK to be ugly. it’s OK to not be conventionally attractive. ugly is seen as a bad word, just like the word fat. these days “fat” is seen less as a bad word, and more of just an innocent accurate descriptor of someone’s body. because fat positivity let people reclaim those words. now when i refer to myself as fat, i don’t hear as many people chiming in with “awww no you’re not fat!” and i hear more “and there’s nothing wrong with that.” (please don’t get started on how being fat ISNT ok because it promotes health problems or some shit... that’s not the point here either) even my own boyfriend calls me his “fat baby” because hey! i’m fat! and it doesn’t hurt my feelings when he calls me that, because neither of us think it’s a bad, mean word anymore.

ugly people need that too. ugly shouldn’t be a bad word. being ugly shouldn’t make your life more difficult. why should it? because they happen to be born less attractive than the average person? how does something completely out of their control make them so worthy of hate to the general population? and maybe you think “well, it’s not completely out of their control. they can get surgery.” but the point is that they shouldn’t have to. we shouldn’t value looks as much as we do in western society. it’s ok to be ugly. we put attractiveness on such a pedestal that nowadays even preteen girls are being influenced to wear heavy makeup, short dresses, and high heels to middle school/high school parties or red carpet events. if we care about beauty so much that these little girls feel the need to dress and act like grown super models, we need to dial it back a bit and put less emphasis on beauty. we are all worth more than the way we look.

i kind of went off track there i’m sure, but this topic makes me heated because of how many people just outright deny that we as a society put too much emphasis on being beautiful. /rant over

Couldn't have said it better myself, beauty bias IS real. Where I'm from people aren't so rude that they'll go up to you and call you fat and ugly, but there will always be people who judge and make comments.

I used to get pissed off and offended when someone would call me fat/overweight, but I've learned to stop thinking of it as an inherently bad trait. That's why comments like "oh you're not fat!!" really bother me. It's like people are trying to deny the truth so your feelings don't get hurt, but that doesn't change the truth. Like yes, I am fat. I have more fat than what someone my age/height should have, and that's fine.

Nowadays the struggle is dealing with assholes who get offended that I'm fine with how I look :/

I think it's rude that a bunch of people have responded with "You'll find someone who finds you beautiful!!" That's not really the point, especially if your looks are negatively affecting your daily life.

I feel you, girl. There are so many well-meaning but ignorant/off the mark comments. Like, look, romance isn’t the only advantage beauty has but there is so much focus on it. Also, just because you/people you know personally don’t experience it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. They want to make us feel better, but saying stuff like “it’s really not that important” etc. demeans our personal experience.

As a funny-looking 28-year-old gal, I too want to shake them. In fact, I feel as if romance is the least of our concerns because we can filter out potential partners easily. It’s the daily interactions with random people/family/co-workers that are the most irritating and hurtful. Even worse, when the “perpetrators” are actually nice people, but the bias is subconscious so you can’t just say “hey only assholes judge by looks” and you can’t bring yourself to be angry, so you’re just sad that the world is this way.

I’m sorry if what I wrote sounds rambling and nonsensical, as I’ve had a long, bad week. I want to say things get better, in support of a fellow funny-looking gal, but looking at my situation, I cannot bring myself to lie to you. What I CAN say is that I HOPE things get better and you’re an amazingly strong person to come to this conclusion at such a young age. Here’s to us!

Because you don’t take yourself seriously.
You sit here crying about omg muh genetics and do nothing about it.
Have bright teeth, clean skin, clean eyes, good lips, nice lashes, nice eyebrows, good hair and beautiful then let’s see how different it is.
Sitting and bitching about how ugly you are won’t help you, it will just make you more bitter as a person... and there goes a lot of your personality aswell.

(if we're talking strictly physical beauty) Honestly I've always just thought of it less as a general "everyone's beautiful" and more "everyone's beautiful to someone". I can't imagine a single person that couldn't be found beautiful by someone else, especially if the other person gives them a chance to show their personality that the other person will like. Sure, there are people that more of the general population will find beautiful (and it definitely does make some aspects of life easier). But as long as you show you're true self to the people you trust, they will think you're beautiful, and you can live a just as, if not more fufulling life with them

The issue is making beauty a criteria for anything other than selling magazine covers. Our animal impulses make us look for physical fitness in a mate, when realistically it doesn't matter anymore.

All people, good looking or otherwise, possess a broadly similar capacity for intelligence, affection and love.

It is a shame our society is so obsessed with physical appearances, and it shall be until we free ourselves from our physical bodies and embrace a transhuman/cyborg revolution, which I suspect won't be for some time.

I wouldn't blame anyone for being shallow mind you. It's sad, but unavoidable. Spare a thought for those so disfigured that even the most well-meaning platitude will not bring solace to their solitude. They do exist.

Being pretty affords you so many advantages it’s a little disheartening at times. And I consider myself pretty decent looking but even then, when I see how cover perfect individuals manage to surf through amazing lifestyles on account of their looks alone I can’t help but feel a little envious.

The flip side to that is that beautiful people who have actually worked hard and accomplished a lot usually aren’t taken as seriously. But it’s much rarer.

Anyways, yes society is biased. There is no fairness on this side of the grave and it’s all about playing the hand you were dealt. Even if that hand is a poor genetic lottery.

It’s ok if you aren’t beautiful and chances are you develop some pretty attractive qualities as a result which balance things out.

When you love someone they become beautiful, so ya everyone can be beautiful. In high school this butt ugly guy that looked like he had scoliosis kept bugging me. But he had an awesome sense of humor and eventually won me over, I fell in love with him and thought he was the best looking guy around lol we are no longer together, and now that I dont love him anymore he ugly again, but I still have fond memories of the time we did spend together.

Edit: also reading a lot replies (from others and yourself), everyone is saying the same thing, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yet everything that someone has commented you have to argue with them? You admit you are young, everything seems tragic in the teen years, I didn't like certain aspects of my body as a teenager but now that I'm older I wish I would of appreciated myself more because I did look good but all the insecurities had me down. Take it from the older crowd, quit suffocating yourself with your insecurities. Your here to live and to have fun not to think about how your ears stick out a little bit. You can win anyone over with a nice smile and good personality, if not then they prob not the type of people you want to be hanging out with anyways.

I only learned to accept my body by deciding that there are more important things to be than beautiful. For me, it was less empowering to try to believe my body was perfect than to believe that hey, maybe the perfect body exists, and maybe I could theoretically attain it, but I'm not a model, so ain't no one paying me to have a perfect body, and there are better uses of my time. Body positivity apathy.

It might help, not to feel alone, to know that almost everyone is judged on looks sometimes. It's not fair or right, but everyone is beautiful to someone else.

Guys are often rejected on dating sites if they're balding, or under six feet tall. Women can be rejected for being too big or too skinny or whatever.

Honestly, if someone rejects you (or me), they're doing us a favor. They're freeing us up to find people who do want to be with us.

Isn't it possible to have friends who are a couple, and neither of them might seem overly attractive to you, but they love each other and find each other hot?

I know a bodybuilder who is deeply in love to a plus size woman. I know a shorter, bald guy who is in love with a skinny woman who was teased in high school. These couples are deeply attractive to each other. There's another couple where both of them are serious nerds, and they only have eyes for each other.

One of my wife's couple friends on facebook, the guy has odd patches of color on his face, near his eyes, that are a bit shocking to see if you're not expecting it... yet they are happy and in love.

There's someone out there who thinks you're the best thing ever.

There are probably also people who you might not find attractive, who might not be interested in you "that way" who still love you and you can be great friends.

You're wonderful to share this message and not to let anyone get you down.

Remember, if they reject you, at least they aren't wasting your time or stringing you along. Everyone gets rejected in life. Literally everyone, even rock stars or models. They're just freeing you up to find people who don't want to reject you! I prefer that to someone wasting my time. =-)

I've gotten to know enough people that I know you can't SEE if someone's a rotten person or not by looks.

I've heard a couple of times that I'm ugly or sub-par looking.
Sure it's tough to hear, but really, just take some time to get to know yourself. Who are you? Who do you want to be?

It's easy to find flaws in yourself. And even easier to feel down about it.
Everyone can look good, if they put enough effort into it.

I had a bad hairline at 19 and very thin hair. Unibrow. Crooked nose, bad skin. Bad teeth. At 19, people thought I was older than my father. I'm not kidding when I say I looked like a 40+ strung out guy.

I shaved my head.
Grew my beard (I now go to a barber to style it)
I now pluck my eyebrows. (Some women have even told me they're jealous of how they're shaped now)
I work out.
I went to the dentist to get help with my teeth.
I got myself some new clothes that fit me better.

And viola. I am now actually decently looking. My confidence is so much greater than it was before.
I now also get compliments that I am looking good.

I just wish I did all that sooner than to dwell on the fact that I wasn't enough for someone else.
The only person's expectations you should live up to are your own.

I don't mean to come off as rude or mean, I know the feeling.
As I said, this is my 5 crowns

I shaved my head.
Grew my beard (I now go to a barber to style it)
I now pluck my eyebrows. (Some women have even told me they're jealous of how they're shaped now)
I work out.
I went to the dentist to get help with my teeth.
I got myself some new clothes that fit me better.

And viola. I am now actually decently looking. My confidence is so much greater than it was before.
I now also get compliments that I am looking good.

you probably had a good facial structure to begin with. i've tried makeup, hair styling, clothes, everything. still ugly because of my bone structure. sucks. most of your things were fixable without surgery.

It was really not that easy. It took a long time and is still ongoing.

I still find myself sub-par to a certain degree.
But I've come to accept myself and be comfortable with who I am and what I look like.
Which is one of the important parts for your confidence and self-esteem.

Being good looking is a broad term as it is very personal to each own what counts as beautiful.
I love the parts about my SO that she doesn't like. And so does she about me. It's so individual that you can't and shouldn't compare yourself to others.
It only hurts yourself in the end.

Female beauty standards are indeed skewered. But men's beauty standards aren't that far off either.
But that doesn't matter since that is not what real life looks like

I completely agree and struggle with the urge to tell little girls how pretty they are. There are a million more important things than being pretty! I guess I am heavily indoctrinated myself.

I've decided long ago that if I had a daughter I would impress upon her how being kind and of good moral character is the most important thing, and then your talents and achievements. Being pretty is nice, but the last thing that is important at all.

I may not be the most attractive person ever by any means, but my dogs act like I’m the most amazing thing they have ever seen.... whenever I’m down, they let me know what’s really important, and they don’t care what size my clothes are, how symmetrical my face is, or if I have stretch marks, or some extra weight on me.

Agreed. I hate the whole "everybody is beautiful movement". It seems to be recent because I never heard it growing up 30 years ago ;)

Not everyone is beautiful. I'm not saying we should treat people different based on their looks, obviously not. But saying everyone is beautiful is a lie that ignores everything from awkward proportions to physical deformities, and it dismisses the very real insecurities people have about their looks or physical problems.

Now, I have an odd face but elected not to get surgery. My sister did due to a large facial deformity. The surgery helped her a lot and improved her quality of life. She became much more confident and outgoing but she's also had to work on that on her own, just as I have. Valuing other qualities than looks as well as accepting the very real difficulties of an.. odd.. face will probably help far more than a lie, or faking it til you make it.

Beauty is a double edged sword. If you’re beautiful everyone thinks you’re an idiot, men assume you’re nice and women think you’re a bitch and random toddlers you never met crawl into your lap. Then you gotta worry if guys are only with you cuz rando guys give them fist bumps to congratulate them for landing you when you’re walking together in public. You’re face is just your face and you have limited control over how it looks and yet it’s the main thing ppl judge you on. But there’s always someone prettier or younger than you. In a perfect world ppl would be judged on things of actual substance like personality and what you stand for and not for how bangable ppl find you

I agree, and the young daughter of a friend of mine is very pretty and everyone keeps telling her how pretty she looks and her mother has entered her into modelling comps and it makes me so uncomfortable and I keep saying in a jokey way (trying not to be a killjoy) "I hope you praise her for other things like her intelligence and her ideas" etc and even people who are feminist and into encouraging good female role models say "oh look at her pretty long eyelashes, those big eyes!" etc and it becomes all about looks. It just makes me worry about what her values/priorities will be as she ages and becomes a teenager. Young girls are conditioned into believing it's the be all and end all for so long. It's a lot to live up to. Sorry, I'm babbling, ha ha, but I agree with you - I'm very much a plain Jane but I'm happy with the balance I have in my life now although have struggled with it in the past.

I'd go a step further and say that I honestly prefer not being beautiful. There's a freedom to it. I spent my youth as a solidly average looking person at best. A lot of my friends were the "beautiful" people. I honestly never wanted that attention for a second. It's stifling and can take a serious toll on your self-image, in that everyone judges you for how you look and you begin to wonder if that's all you have to offer, and frankly, a lot of times people will hate you for it.

There's a price to pay on both ends of the spectrum, and honestly, I've always felt that "average" was as good as it gets, because that's the space where people just let you live your life.

Yes, and there are people who are physically beautiful, but have no grace (are completely clumsy, have terrible posture, and are making themselves look bad in every photo and event.)

And there are people who are physically beautiful, but have no style (everything they wear is truly in poor taste.)

And there are people who are physically beautiful, but seriously ill or are just (as we know with social media) really really really good at hiding things.

Anyway I'm not talking about personality btw.

Something like physical grace is often inherent. Like you are born with it.

Similarly, clumsy and or fashion taste can be a trait people lack due to neurodivergency and thus, even though they are physically beautiful, they never fit into the "beauty" that society expects of them...see especially gender expectations.

And I bold this btw, because you might not realize it, but gender expectations (binary girl/boy) are seriously bizarre and extreme when you think about it. Are you not a woman because you are ugly? Are you not a man because you are pretty? If you are beautiful in a non-feminine way you are straight up considered undateable by 80% of the straight male population...shall I go on? If you are remotely feminine as a man, same thing. What we expect about beauty is so weirdly performative and obviously not just tied to actual physical symmetry or youth, but performance along conformity to binary gender.

And people need to let us acknowledge these things. I'm tired of being told I'm beautiful even though I know that it only is when I fit into cis-gendered expectations. Besides that what I really want to be like is not beautiful by any common standard at all.

You may think a person is "beautiful" but what you measure is a standard that isn't even your own 1) and isn't even what that person wants necessarily (they are conforming) 2) and 3) they aren't even pretty when you see them irl without the snapchat filters and photoshop, actually existing in 3d space. I find some of the "pretty" women we're supposed to admire on fashion ads are actually IRL really really freakish looking. And I'm not saying this with hate, I say this as a bi-girl that loves women. I am not turned on by super skinny fake tan looks but I won't judge others if they are. And nor would I judge a woman if that was her way of expressing herself.

I personally can't wait to be an old person. The older I get the less I care how others view me.

You may think a person is "beautiful" but what you measure is a standard that isn't even your own 1) and isn't even what that person wants necessarily (they are conforming) 2) and 3) they aren't even pretty when you see them irl without the snapchat filters and photoshop, actually existing in 3d space. I find some of the "pretty" women we're supposed to admire on fashion ads are actually IRL really really freakish looking. And I'm not saying this with hate, I say this as a bi-girl that loves women. I am not turned on by skeletal fake tan looks but I won't judge others if they are. And nor would I judge a woman if that was her way of expressing herself.

If we all agree that you are ugly, and you can't change that, and it sucks, and people treat you differently, and high-five you about it...

Now what?

What are you going to DO with your life, now? How will you serve, how will you love, how will you be a good person? Who will you be close to? How will you choose to be? You are obviously in a place where no one else's opinions matter except those that agree with you...so, now what? If you will not be moved, then you must move on.

Look, I am paralyzed from the waist down. I use a wheelchair. I could TELL YOU about how people treat me, how men don't just reject me, but don't even see me as someone that they reject because I am NO WHERE on their radar to begin with. People don't look at me and laugh, they avoid looking at me, period, like I am a non-person. THAT hurts.

Yet, I have loved, and been loved. I try to be a good person. I try to do things outside of focusing on how I am perceived, because in the end, what matters most is how I am towards people, how I choose to be, because I cannot change or control anyone else.

It took me years to stop my dad saying "you're not just a pretty face" whenever I did something smart as a teen and young adult. I felt it was a back handed compliment that 'if I was pretty it wouldn't matter if I was dumb ... and that smarts is less valuable than pretty'.
My mum and I look a lot alike and both feel we are (her phrase) 'plainly attractive' - plain and kinda boring but not repugnant. And there is some freedom in this! My brains are more valuable to me. I still work on having a composed 'look' with good hair and clothes and some makeup but more to blend in than to stand out.

Having physical features that society deems worthy is not beauty. It's being pretty. Beauty is when you spread love and joy where you go. Beauty is the wonderful things that people see inside of you. You're right: not everyone is beautiful but beauty and being pretty are mutually exclusive.

It really depends on the term beautiful. I know people who are beautiful for so many things. It isn't always their face, or their body. There are people who physically might not be that stunning but everything else about them is and that makes them so much more attractive. That being said, I get what you are saying.

I try to tell my kid: There are many more important things than having just a beautiful face. Having a beautiful soul. Having a beautiful mind. Having a beautiful attitude.

right, i get what you mean, but not everyone has a beautiful personality. or looks. but at least use a different word that's not usually used for looks, like smart, funny, kind. i am glad you are saying that to your kids though

"i want to apologize to all the women i have called beautiful
before i’ve called them intelligent or brave
i am sorry i made it sound as though
something as simple as what you’re born with
is all you have to be proud of
when you have broken mountains with your wit
from now on i will say things like
you are resilient, or you are extraordinary
not because i don’t think you’re beautiful
but because i need you to know
you are more than that”

When you get to know someone, you get used to their face and even start to think they look good/fine. My ex wasn't my type, but I thought she was beautiful after we started dating.

I also had a friend, the first time I saw him, I thought he was REALLY ugly. As time went on, I was with him and another guy we met. Later that night, the guy we met told me on facebook "man your friend is one ugly guy". Even though I had thought that before, it struck me a bit because over time I didn't even think of him being ugly.

In the end, there's nothing hotter than someone who's fun to be around. An average looking person can skyrocket in someone's eyes if he's nice and fun.

I know this is going to sound dumb and I get it, being deemed 'pretty' and attractive seems better off. But as someone who society accepts as 'pretty' I've had a fucked up time with my looks. Because of past relationships and the emphasis of having to look attractive my body image issues are insane. Due to my ex cheating on me I feel like I have to compare myself to other girls and be the prettiest one to keep him satisfied so he won't cheat. He even made me put down women (his exes/flings) who weren't conventionally 'pretty' and that's so fucking disgusting of me to do. It makes me sick to my stomach. So this is toxic all around for women, and I get that it can be worse for those who don't meet society's standards. Gah! I hate this whole "Looks are so important" thing, but I hate how I fall into playing into it more.

Ok but... You assume that all pretty people just had their beauty handed to them on a silver platter through genetics. This is not true in the least bit. At least not for women. Sure, some women are just naturally prettier than others. But for the most part, we all start out with a similar foundation. Some people just choose to put more effort into their appearance than others. I'm not saying it's fair that women have to wear makeup and shave our legs and take care of our hair and skin to be actually taken seriously in this world, but we ALL have to do it. Not just you. And if you choose not to, that's your prerogative. Don't get mad at us for it.

I don't want to assume what your makeup or hair routine is, but I will say that none of that does any good if you're not good at it. I've always considered myself ugly. And when I first started doing my makeup, I still looked ugly cause I was horrible at it. The thing about makeup is that you can change literally anything you don't like about yourself. I don't like my square face, so I use bronzer to soften my jawline. I don't like my nose, so I use bronzer and highlight to make it look thinner. I don't like my eyebrows, so I shape and fill them in. I'm not saying that it's fair that we have to go through all of this, and of course you don't have to go through all of this because there is nothing wrong with being ugly in my opinion, but no face is "too ugly" to be able to make it pretty.

I think those sorts of statements are often about inner beauty and self worth. That aside, people can definitely put too much emphasis on looks.

However, I feel like the term "ugly" rarely applies to any person. Not being attractive doesn't make someone ugly. Being ugly would generally take a complete lack of interest in appearance and likely even a complete lack of hygiene.

Ah, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You may not be conventionally pretty, but that doesn't mean people cant find you beautiful. Also, a lot of times the more you get to know someone on the inside the more beautiful they become on the outside.

It’s not that hard to be beautiful honestly.Take care of your hair and face and voila, facial artitecture is not everything.
And btw stop fucking saying this bullshit “you arent beautiful”.
Everybody is beautiful to somebody, thats why love exists.This way you are just making people more insecure cus nobody wants to be in that group.Adult up, realize there is more to beauty than genetics and fucking do it.

from a womens perspective it's very important. media is BASED on attractive women. yes you can get a relationship if you're ugly, like me. but it still affects your social life. i get yelled all kinds of horrible shit at in public for being ugly. physically attacked too.

Everyone is beautiful... to someone else.
And everyone you consider beautiful is ugly to someone else.

Are there standard definitions of widely accepted beauty? Absolutely.

The majority of people agree on certain celebs being attractive. But you have to remember that something being in a majority doesn't make it absolute. There are men who find Angelina Jolie revolting. Women who find Brad Pitt gross.

"Ugly" in your own opinion means that you personally don't find yourself attractive. That's fine. Out of 7 billion people on this planet, a small population may find you the most attractive woman they have ever met.

It's simply numbers, nothing more. When you see someone you personally find ugly, someone else looks at them with stars in their eyes.
Those unconventionally attractive people, due to numbers, have a harder time finding someone who feels that way about them but they are out there. But by definition are not ugly.

Everyone is beautiful... to someone else.
And everyone you consider beautiful is ugly to someone else.

there's a general consensus like you state below.

and you don't disagree if you had to edit what you meant by adding on the "...to someone else" etc.

Are there standard definitions of widely accepted beauty? Absolutely.

yes. and this is what matters. this is why it's an issue.

The majority of people agree on certain celebs being attractive. But you have to remember that something being in a majority doesn't make it absolute. There are men who find Angelina Jolie revolting. Women who find Brad Pitt gross.

but these are in such a minority that it doesn't make much of an impact. it being a majority is what hurts. it makes me more likely to be discriminated. back a few years ago the majority opinion in the UK was that being gay was evil. sure a minority thought the opposite, but the fact it was only a minority didn't stop the high amounts of crap gay people got. same logic here.

"Ugly" in your own opinion means that you personally don't find yourself attractive. That's fine. Out of 7 billion people on this planet, that a small population may find you the most attractive woman they have ever met.

99% of people have found me ugly. my face is objectively bad. very little people like long noses. thin lips. wonky facial features. if you do you are in a minority which like i said doesn't matter that much.

It's simply numbers, nothing more. When you see someone you personally find ugly, someone else looks at them with stars in their eyes.
Those unconventionally attractive people, due to numbers, have a harder time finding someone who feels that way about them but they are out there. But by definition are not ugly.