How close is this team?

To a certain extent, we disagree on Stuckey's defensive abilities. Stuckey is possibly the worst team defender that I have ever seen. Doesn't fight through pick and rolls, unless it's "His Guy". Refuses to close out on shooters. I would rather he not be on the team, but he IS really strong defending the guy with the ball. It's about the only time that he shows some pride.

We absolutely need another shot blocker and a stud wing.

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Stuckey is horrid at getting thru picks. However, he does actually add interior defense because he does have some size and strength. Its a mixed bag. However, in all, when he was our starting point guard, he won a lot more one to one matchups vs. the opposing point guard than he lost. Stuckey is by no means the problem with this team.

And neither is Knight. Knight has his flaws, like not running fast breaks well, but his chief duty, making good decisions about how the ball gets distributed on offense, he does well. Between the two, if they both were limited strictly to point guard duties, they are all we need at point.

And by the way, you might not like Stuckey on his defense, but its a lot better than Calderon's, who is shorter and has zero ups. Not that Calderon does not try, but he is just not that good on defense. I'd take him for our starting point for sure, if he were not already past 30. Not a good fit for our teams future.

As far as starters, I believe we are set. As for a coach, we are nowhere - unless of course Frank was given orders to lose, which he did oh so well.

Start: Knight, English, Middleton, Monroe, Drummond.

Bench: Stuckey at point.

We have not fully evaluated Kravtsov yet. So far, I say he is good enough to have a roster spot on the team next year.

JJ. Too slow at small forward. Too small at power forward. Singler shows promise, but is really too slow. He did prove to be an asset as shooting guard though, where his height gave him an advantage on offense even though he gave up a lot on defense. He does show some promise of being able to shoot the 3. If he can improve on that, he has a place on the team. If not, no.

CV. Some nights, like last game, he is so missing on our defense I can't even imagine why he is in the league. We should not keep him. Keeping him would send a message that taking nights off on D is ok.

Maggette. Injured.

JMAX. Too old now to fit our future. Not a bad player. Just too short to play power forward in the NBA and he never did develop the timing Ben Wallace had to overcome his height disadvantage. (They have the same standing reach.) Plus Ben was cat quick on defense, absolutely a game changer.

Bynum. It is embarrassing many nights that he is on the team. Too short to stop many shooters from shooting. He could be ok as an extra roster player if only we had a coach who would only use him as a situationoal player. We can do better. The guy is too old to fit our future.

So, I say we keep 7 guys from the current squad for next year, and otherwise go with 7 more young guys to fill out the roster.

We keep Knight, Stuckey, English, Middleton, Drummond, Monroe, Kravtsov. And Maybe Singler, but I would not recommend it.

Monroes PPG is roughly the same as what Corliss gave us off the bench that year.

I see 2 good pieces on this current team - Monroe and Drummond and Drummon did not play very much this year.

All the rest are filler. You can make good cases for keeping anyone besides them but they are all easily replaced. Even Knight I am starting to lose faith in. Beginning of of the year I may have had him in the keeper col but now - I dont know

I see our issues as mainly talent related but our coach is not the best either.

We had some unknown former 2nd round pick called the Bucket Man starting for us for crying out loud - that kind of says it all.

With that said I actually think we can be a playoff team with one summer of smart calculated moves. We already have the hardest part done - getting a decent front court.

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It's always good to hear from you, Max. We've been talking ball for a long time.

I wouldn't call the Most Outstanding Player of the NCAA Final Four an "unknown".

Wallace and Uncle Cliff were Vets. Cliff was spry back in Portland and Phoenix. By the time he got here, he was a small forward who could defend the post. Corliss was a 6'5 center who could give you a post presence for 20-25 minutes a game. They listed him as a SF because of his height, but he played the 5 and defended forwards. Hewas a journeyman who was acquired for JYD.

Ben was the best team defender that I have ever seen.

Stack was a better player than anybody on this team but Dre.

I love Barry, but he was a poor man's Calderon.

If you look at that team- Barros, Atkins, Damon Jones, Stack, Barry, Corliss, Robinson, Rebraca, Curry, etc,- Those were quality veteran guys. This team is YOUNG.

JC, Knight, Stuckey, even Bynum are better PGs than anyone on that team. Ben, Cliff, Rebraca, and Corliss were formidable, but talentwise, Dre and Moose are probably better than Ben and Rebraca, neither of whom is as talented as Dre.

JJ and Singler are both better than Curry.

Obviously, no one on this team compares with Rodney White, not even Chuck V.

I think that, top down, this team is more talented. An impact guy like Ben, crucial role player like Corliss, and a reliable scorer like Stack are missing. The '02 lacked talent, but there were no missing pieces. This team has talent, but the talent is redundant and there are missing pieces.

Well thought outs posts in this thread. Makes the tanking more palatable.

I think we are pretty far away. There was a small stretch where it looked like we were on the verge of clicking and making some noise but it was short lived and the collapse afterward was fairly spectacular.

Stuckey is a decent player. i don't know how much he contributes to winning but in a vaccuum, he's a solid ball handler, a good passer and um...stuff. The team however is evolving without him and he hasn't been able to figure out how to be productive without hogging the ball. BK wasn't drafted to run around screens and awkwardly shoot 3's. Monroe needs floor spacers and cutters to maximize his opportunities.

Knight and Monroe has shown some decent development in their games. We focus on the glaring faults but Knight has more poise and an improved handle. He is exhibiting some speed changes. Monroe is a lot more comfortable at the elbow. We all want guys to break out but sometimes they don't. That doesn't mean they didn't show improvement.

I don't put much faith in Stuckey figuring how to produce in the present and future Pistons. But they need a prominent producer and not a guy that goes 0-50 over 3 games.

I don't mind keeping Calderon, Maxiell, JJ. Just none of those guys should start or get significant minutes. We will get younger and worse. If we are relying of a draft pick in a weak draft to turn things around in a season, we are all sorts of desparate. There are no real good FAs or trade options that make much sense or are realistic. We'd have to look at damaged goods a la Eric Gordon or bad teams in economic quagmires and that limits things quite a bit.

Knight and development in the same sentence? Knight is not a NBA level player right now. I would like to even see Middleton start over Knight, he doesn't deserve to start in next season. I hope we get rid of CV, and Knight could be our Villanueva next year, if he is playing well, he coould get 20 minutes, if not, bench him after 10 minutes.

I really hoped Knight and Singler will play well at the end of the season and prove that they can be a productive starters next season. That didn't happen, we really need a starting SG and PF. The plan should be really simple:

1. Draft good SG player ( McLemore, Muhammad, Oladipo)
2. Sign Calderon
3. Sign Iguodala
4. Fill the roster with hard working players ( perfectly that would be Millsap + the rest, but that will be tough to do).

If we amnesty CV, we will have money to sign both Iggy and Millsap, we could also trade Stuckey somewhere just to sign them both.

Knight and development in the same sentence? Knight is not a NBA level player right now. I would like to even see Middleton start over Knight, he doesn't deserve to start in next season. I hope we get rid of CV, and Knight could be our Villanueva next year, if he is playing well, he coould get 20 minutes, if not, bench him after 10 minutes.

I really hoped Knight and Singler will play well at the end of the season and prove that they can be a productive starters next season. That didn't happen, we really need a starting SG and PF. The plan should be really simple:

1. Draft good SG player ( McLemore, Muhammad, Oladipo)
2. Sign Calderon
3. Sign Iguodala
4. Fill the roster with hard working players ( perfectly that would be Millsap + the rest, but that will be tough to do).

If we amnesty CV, we will have money to sign both Iggy and Millsap, we could also trade Stuckey somewhere just to sign them both.

Knight and development in the same sentence? Knight is not a NBA level player right now. I would like to even see Middleton start over Knight, he doesn't deserve to start in next season. I hope we get rid of CV, and Knight could be our Villanueva next year, if he is playing well, he coould get 20 minutes, if not, bench him after 10 minutes.

I really hoped Knight and Singler will play well at the end of the season and prove that they can be a productive starters next season. That didn't happen, we really need a starting SG and PF. The plan should be really simple:

You had me following you until right here. Iguodala has a player option and is not going to be a free agent this year, so he's out of the running for next season. And even IF he was a free agent, there's no way the Pistons could entice him to come here unless they give him significantly more money than any other team offers.

4. Fill the roster with hard working players ( perfectly that would be Millsap + the rest, but that will be tough to do).

If we amnesty CV, we will have money to sign both Iggy and Millsap, we could also trade Stuckey somewhere just to sign them both.

Same problem - I see a lot of the "Phase 1: Steal underpants, Phase 2: ___, Phase 3: Profit" mentality that we all fall prey to from time to time. How is Detroit supposed to convince Millsap to come and sit on the bench for a team that didn't even make the playoffs after starting for a team that did?

Now, the Pistons would have the cap space to trade Stuckey for Iguodala, which would help alleviate Denver's potential cap problem next year, but I think that's unlikely.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Joe doesn't sign any big-name free agents this offseason at all, and holds on until 2014, which may end up being one of the best free agent classes in history (seriously... look at this list: 2014 NBA Free Agents | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News &amp; NBA Rumors). That year they'll have Monroe, Knight, Drummond, Jerebko, Singler, Middleton, a likely top-5 pick, and English all on the books for about $20 million, and may well be a buyer's market. They'll know better what they have then and be better able to put complementary pieces around their core.

I think that, top down, this team is more talented. An impact guy like Ben, crucial role player like Corliss, and a reliable scorer like Stack are missing. The '02 lacked talent, but there were no missing pieces. This team has talent, but the talent is redundant and there are missing pieces.

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That is true the talent is redundant. For the most part with the exception of Dre, Knight and Monroe we are mainly trying to develope a bunch of 2nd round draft picks and there is a reason why guys fall into the 2nd round. Every once in a while you are going to find a dimond in the ruff but its the exception.

You had me following you until right here. Iguodala has a player option and is not going to be a free agent this year, so he's out of the running for next season. And even IF he was a free agent, there's no way the Pistons could entice him to come here unless they give him significantly more money than any other team offers.

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There is a pretty good chance Iggy leaves that money on the table for a 4 year deal at 12 million. In fact, I will put a tin of vegemite on the line here, that Andre Iguadola turns down his player option to seek a long term deal.

I see a lot of the "Phase 1: Steal underpants, Phase 2: ___, Phase 3: Profit" mentality that we all fall prey to from time to time. How is Detroit supposed to convince Millsap to come and sit on the bench for a team that didn't even make the playoffs after starting for a team that did?

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QFT & QED.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Joe doesn't sign any big-name free agents this offseason at all, and holds on until 2014, which may end up being one of the best free agent classes in history (seriously... look at this list: 2014 NBA Free Agents | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News &amp; NBA Rumors). That year they'll have Monroe, Knight, Drummond, Jerebko, Singler, Middleton, a likely top-5 pick, and English all on the books for about $20 million, and may well be a buyer's market. They'll know better what they have then and be better able to put complementary pieces around their core.

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You forget that there are minimum salary levels. If we fill up the team with useless expiring contracts, we are just treading water. There is enough talent in the FA market this year to significantly improve the team.

You forget that there are minimum salary levels. If we fill up the team with useless expiring contracts, we are just treading water. There is enough talent in the FA market this year to significantly improve the team.

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College players from the state of Michigan would drastically improve our roster........