This thread is sad because it has just become the pro ban side literally cursing out users and the anti-ban side struggling to counter the paragraphs of whining. I think it is alot tougher for the anti ban side to make an argument based on the point that the metagame is so so fresh and it is way...

What is really stopping wifi players from just having the option to do a lv 50 metagame? I say if two players want to do L50 then they could do it... Otherwise on simulators keep it at 100. Besides... Some common movesets need multiple games and trades to get to your team... doing those trades...

Did the way that traditional wifi change from gen 5 to 6? If not then why change what isn't broken? going by the numbers it seems that most competitive guys work on the simulators anyway. I think op may be confusing nintendo metagames with traditional friend code wifi where you choose if you...

Eh, its kind of stupid to predict bans and tiers this early.... We don't even know what the suspect system will be this go around. Honestly the power creep seemed to have slowed down tremendously this gen so I think it is too early to look at gen 6 pokemon bans under the full picture.

isnt protect/detect basically mandatory if you want to at least get your mega into the battle? That takes at least 1 move slot away and makes these pokemon less viable immediately. Unless I am getting the mechanics wrong what do you guys think about this?

I wonder what caused the disdain of the ladder compared to "shoddy battle" times. I say if people don't see any value in the ladder then smogon shouldn't have an official ladder and should go to having smaller tournaments all day.

Well my post wasn't really an argument... The point about dragonite was that Gamefreak knows that some of the most powerful pokemon are in the air or weak to rock (because you know.... they make the games) and would be most vulnerable to SR. I never mentioned anything about banning D-nite and...

When thinking about this metagame the real question should be : Does the absence of Stealth Rock promote skill in teambuilding and skill in actual matches?
My opinion is that this metagame is less skillful in both aspects. Most of the top threats got way stronger without SR and most games...

Hmm maybe you are right. I saw a few teams that gave me trouble with espeon. Froslass would solve that based on a speed tie. However I do like that scarm can taunt and whirlwind and lure in and kill a breloom here or there. They are probably interchangeable and have their own strengths and...

Some observations.
Spikes are very useful since people aren't using rapid spin now. Custap skarmory is still very good at setting up at least 2 layers of spikes. Priority is probably the most powerful thing in the tier since every strong SR weak pokemon takes heavy or some damage from them...