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Re: We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by head of joaquin

Conservatives just get weirder and weirder. Now a debate about healthcare turns into proclamations about how brave rightwingers are in the face of death. I say, fine, don't seek medical care and let the rest of us take care of ourselves and kids with a rational single payer system. You guys can wither away in the corner, heroically.

I think "you guys" would turn out to be Tigger, all alone.

"Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

Re: We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by head of joaquin

Conservatives just get weirder and weirder. Now a debate about healthcare turns into proclamations about how brave rightwingers are in the face of death. I say, fine, don't seek medical care and let the rest of us take care of ourselves and kids with a rational single payer system. You guys can wither away in the corner, heroically.

Better DEAD than RED, joaguin; and those seem to be the only two options you people want to have available anymore.

Re: We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by stonewall50

I feel a need to point out the poor reporting methods of "civilized" western nations. That is very important when it comes to things like stillborns and such,

Are you an expert on data reporting systems? Have you done research into the effectiveness of health data reporting systems of western nations? How many things are there that are "like" stillbirth? What are they? Why are these things a particular problem?

Originally Posted by stonewall50

I would also point to some of this as evidence of our inner city problems. We have so much inner city poverty it is tough to do anything.

Maybe your focus is a little off. There are many more health care resources within a stone's throw of any inner city resident than there are for a rural resident. The countryside isn't wealthy or densely populated enough to support GP's, much less medical specialties or significant hospital resources. This is why we have a rural health care crisis.

Originally Posted by stonewall50

Why? We have 304 million citizens. A lot harder to realistically handle that,

This is an imaginary excuse. The population of the EU is substantially larger than that of the US. They are culturally diverse and speak 23 different languages. As a group, they receive better overall health care than we do and at lower per capita cost.

Re: We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by stonewall50

Scales will be a huge issue for any kind of free health care in the United States.

No one is proposing free health care anywhere.

Originally Posted by stonewall50

We have have so many people that would probably abuse the system (as it is now...emergency services get abused horrifically...hence $800 bills just to ride in an ambulance). The COST would be the biggest problem. As it is now...how much of the cost is handled through that wonderful...albeit irritating...capitalist scheme of insurance?

Re: We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by BretJ

Not a good example I am afraid. The USPS is bleeding money at the moment. Their problem is the internet and competition that is vastly more efficient than they are. I have a hunch the USPS will not be around a few years from now. At least not as we know it.

I'm sure you're on top of the situation and all, but USPS still gets a letter from one American to any other in two days for 45 cents. The fact that idiots in Congress have saddled them and them alone with an obligation to invest billions in prefunding retiree health benefits is not material to the fact. I wish them well in refusals to make those payments.

We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang

Are you an expert on data reporting systems? Have you done research into the effectiveness of health data reporting systems of western nations? How many things are there that are "like" stillbirth? What are they? Why are these things a particular problem?

Maybe your focus is a little off. There are many more health care resources within a stone's throw of any inner city resident than there are for a rural resident. The countryside isn't wealthy or densely populated enough to support GP's, much less medical specialties or significant hospital resources. This is why we have a rural health care crisis.

This is an imaginary excuse. The population of the EU is substantially larger than that of the US. They are culturally diverse and speak 23 different languages. As a group, they receive better overall health care than we do and at lower per capita cost.

1) all it takes is a simple statistics course to understand that when comparing data...you must take into account if reporting methods are different. That doesn't take data analysis expertise. Since you wish to use U.N. numbers I feel you need to be made aware that such numbers are acquired from respective national reporting centers. So where standards of reporting are different (and United States is amongst the highest in standards) then how can you compare them as equals?

Let me guess. You won't accept that common knowledge fact right? Don't worry. Once I get home I will provide you with some websites (cell phone is hard to do that with).

2) and yet there are far more people to use up resources, and where there is more inner city there is more poverty. Poverty certainly doesn't help ones health care chances does it? Rural health care sucks. No doubt. But don't you think that poverty is a factor? How much poverty and budget sucking inner city problems do they have in Europe?

3) yes. They do as a group. Now break it down into nations. Unless the EU finally merged into one nation...I'm not concerned about them as a group. My point remains valid.

Re: We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca

I remember back in the US I had to get an MRI on my knee and it took 2 months to finally get there, by that time it had mostly healed and showed nothing, so they didn't do anything for me. Even though the Xray I got the day after showed how swollen it was. And that was in the Army, which is supposed to be faster (though not necessarily better) medical care than the civilian world.

Here my wife got an MRI on her knee within a week.

When I became concerned that my mom had Alzheimers, I had to wait 8 weeks just to get an appt.

Re: We're Number......LAST

Average male life expectancy with medical care is 17.2 years. What is it without medical care?

There aren't any statistics for "without medical care".

Originally Posted by Tigger

I will not take Government Medical, including Medicare; which means that at age 65 I lose my medical care. I'll likely be blind within 8-12 months from my glaucoma, and dead within 36 months (at the outside).

Ever the optimist. As a cancer survivor, I'm actually pretty happy with what good medical coverage made available to me.

Originally Posted by Tigger

We Conservatives don't fear Death the way that so many of you Progressives and Liberals seem to. We believe there's something more beyond this life, whereas many of you seem to feel that Death is the End. Maybe that's why we're not scared of Death like you folks are.

I haven't found fear of death to be so common among liberals and certainly not among atheists. It seems to me that such folks would pragmatically prefer to avoid death whenever possible, but fully recognize and rather matter-of-factly accept its ultimate inevitability.

We're Number......LAST

Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca

I remember back in the US I had to get an MRI on my knee and it took 2 months to finally get there, by that time it had mostly healed and showed nothing, so they didn't do anything for me. Even though the Xray I got the day after showed how swollen it was. And that was in the Army, which is supposed to be faster (though not necessarily better) medical care than the civilian world.

Here my wife got an MRI on her knee within a week.

Wow. Really? Funny. Private health care here and I got my MRI for my knee in the same day I went to the doctor. I actually was in with the sports medicine surgeon the same day I saw my GP. It was a torn minuscus and I was able to get arthroscopic surgery the next week (decided to wait because I had final exams and could walk with crutches).

I know a ton of horror stories from the VA. Had a friend when I was in school who could barely get in for his PTSD stuff, let alone for the reoccurring medical problems from an IED he took in Iraq.