PROJECT MANAGEMENT, WITH PERSPECTIVE

Month: April 2015

We’re back after a very short break and before we pick up where we left off, I want to recap real quickly. In the last post I was talking with Dr. Bret L. Simmons about his classes (projects) and how he manages them each semester. We also touched on what he tries to instill in his students and how he might fine tune from semester to semester. In this post, we’re going to talk about this transformational period we’re in right now when it comes to social media but first we hit on a very specific incident that I witnessed in one of his classes and it’s got some good stuff so let’s get straight to that.

Elton: “Okay, I might be getting off topic here but I was in your 720 class last spring and there was a point at the end of the semester where the final was put up on the screen (the class was being recorded) and there was the possibility of a screen shot being shared publically. What drove the decision to give everyone the same grade across the board with no exam as opposed to creating a new exam for the final?”

Bret: “You know, I was trying to be consistent with the principles I was teaching. Because, one of the core principles is fairness, justice. And a couple of students had notified me that the exam had been compromised, they had gone and seen it on the recording. So, if you had gone and seen the recording, you could see the whole exam.”

Elton: “Oh wow!”

Bret: “It was all there because I had scrolled through all the pages. And so, essentially, if I had given the same exam, some students would have had an unfair advantage. Which was one option. I could have lived with the fact that a few students had an unfair advantage. That would have advantaged some, but disadvantaged most.”

“The second option was to rewrite the exam totally. And with the principle of reliability, that would have disadvantaged the entire class. So, the only option that would advantage the entire class, was the one that disadvantaged me on the surface. And that was to just not give the exam. That was the only way to be totally and completely fair to everyone was to say it was compromised and give everyone the complete score.”

Elton: “That’s interesting.”

Bret: “It was the only way to be utterly, completely, and totally fair. Any other choice, someone, at least one person would have felt slighted. And to me that just wasn’t acceptable because it was my mistake.”

Elton: “That solution is indeed in line with those principles that you were really driving in the class, the ones we had been talking about from the beginning. Now that I hear your version of it, it is dead on with what you …”

Bret: “… yep. It was the only thing to do. I thought through all the possible alternatives and really pretty quickly arrived at the conclusion that this is the only way to be fair to everyone is to just not give it.”

Elton: “Wow! I glad I brought this up because I think there are some important things that relate to the things that I deal with, the things that other project managers are dealing with on a day to day basis. And that is this consistency (I touch on consistency in another post with Sean Ostehagen). And that is such a powerful thing that I believe lacks and could be practiced in a much stronger fashion in a lot of business these days.”

Bret: “Well, it’s also very much a business principle. You know? If you make a mistake, the customer shouldn’t have to pay for it. I made the mistake, and in any other decision, at least one of my customers would have had to have paid for my mistake. So, the only way to do that, really, was to give the customer a freebie. The customer got a freebie on that one because I screwed up.”

Elton: “And from that standpoint, it makes total sense. If you really relate it to, and I’m not saying this isn’t real world, but if you relate it to the outside world, practicality, it is clear, very clear.”

Bret: “Yeah, to me it’s just a solid business principle.”

Elton: “Good stuff. Well, I’d like up wrap up this interview with this. As you read in my interview with Mark Babbitt, I’ve really bought into this idea of being social. So, I’d like to ask how you’re trying to implement social not just into the 726 class, but into the other classes as well. Because I see that you’ve bought into all of this stuff, and there’s got to be a point at which you’re trying to convey some of this stuff to the other classes?”

Bret: “Actually no, I don’t try at all to bring social into my other two classes. I’ve been to a session at a professional meeting where they were talking about how they were trying to do that. How they made the whole class get on Twitter and have discussion groups. And to me that, that makes it very uncomfortable. To me, at its core, social should, in the education realm, should be voluntary. So, 720 and 722 are mandatory classes, therefore I will never force anyone into the social realm. Because some people will say ‘I just don’t want to do this, you shouldn’t force me to do it.’ And they are correct. So, I’m really uncomfortable in having social as an integrated part of every class. Except in that I’m social, I tweet stuff that’s related to my classes, I write about stuff that’s related to my classes. You’re welcome to find me online and engage with me online, but that’s all totally optional.”

Expert’s Input: There is a plethora of information online about whether or not we should be teaching social in the classroom and it’s probably as split down the middle as gay marriage was 10 years ago. But, ideas and attitudes are changing and in a piece titled: Should teachers be using social media in the classroom? the pros and cons are briefly evaluated by two different authors. In the pro category, Don Goble says: “Yet in most cases, students are not learning social media skills. Think about it: would you give the keys to a brand new Ferrari to a 13-year-old with no driving lessons and say, have fun? This is essentially what we are doing with social media.” I think there is a lot of validity there. I am myself just behind the wheel of my new “Ferrari” learning to drive under the guidance of this 726 program.

In the cons category, Gail Leicht says: “Other teachers have told me that students are actually participating less than they did a few years ago. And instead of encouraging them to share their thoughts, maybe we should be teaching them that no, they don’t have to share every thought.” This is another important point that I believe applies here and it ties directly in to the “pros” stated above. Teachers could be teaching what could be considered appropriate, and what is not. Teaching how to align their image on all platforms, and how to know when and when not to click that “friend” button. More on that “friend” concept later so let’s get back to it. We were talking about how Bret does and does not use social in his classrooms.

“For the class you’re taking, 726, it is not a mandatory class, it is an elective. In fact, at the undergraduate level I used to teach a required class that was social and I don’t teach that class anymore. If I am going to teach this class, it has to be pure elective so that people have an opportunity. And I try to tell you before you even ever walk into the class, I’ll send you an email stating that we’re getting ready to write blog posts, get on Facebook, Tweet, LinkedIn, and if you don’t want to do any of that, then don’t take the class. It’s entirely optional. And that’s the only way to approach it. You know, I teach it as an immersion experience. But, that is a voluntary immersing experience. So, my assumption is that at the beginning of the semester, everyone knows what their getting into and they’re volunteering for that.”

Elton: “And there are still, even a couple of weeks in, there were a few raised hands: ‘Well, what if I want to do it this way?’ And I’m thinking: ‘we’re you there for the first class?’ (Chuckle)”

Bret: “I said it pretty clearly in that first class, exactly like that! Because that’s how I hear it. Because three weeks in, like you said: ‘Well, what if I want to do it that way?’”

Elton: & Bret: “NO!” (Both laugh).

Bret: “That’s very purposeful on the first day because that’s what I typically hear three to four weeks in.”

Elton: “With this thing social, why do you feel it’s important for the students? And maybe in a broader sense, why is it so important to you? Because I think that translates directly to the students.”

Bret: “Well, for a number of reasons. But, it is the most transformational change I have seen in my lifetime; we are living through a time of transformational change. These technologies and the things people are doing with them, as Clay Shirky says: ‘When the technology gets boring, the application gets interesting.’ We don’t think about all the software behind these things, we just take them for granted. Twitter works, this video chat program we’re now using works, Instagram, etc. We don’t worry how it works, we just worry about how we want to use it. And it’s radically transforming how people communicate which radically transforms so much of what we do, especially in business. So to me, it’s the practical lesson of immersing yourself in the experience. But then you also have a metacognitive evaluation of it. You don’t just go along for the ride, you step back and you think about: ‘Now what am I really doing?’

Elton: “Oh yeah! I’ve felt that!”

Bret: “And so, A World Gone Social was a great treatment of that. It was very much two steps back and saying: ‘Let’s just think about what’s really going on here.’ Which is one things I really appreciated about that book so much was it wasn’t just: ‘How do you do this’, A World Gone Social was two steps back saying: ‘All right, let’s look at the big picture, let’s look are what people are really doing. Let’s think where this is going and what the end game is and what this means.’ So, that is my huge lesson that I hope people won’t just be along for the ride because their lives are going to be like this for a long time. Don’t just go along for the ride, step back and look at what you’re doing and ask yourself some questions.”

“You know, the prime example was Facebook. Facebook uses this term ‘friend’ and we buy it hook line and sinker. We think: ‘Oh, it really is about friend.’ And yet, the metacognitive activity recognizes that’s just a word, it’s a word they selected. And if we interpret the word that they selected, then we allow them to govern our behavior. Just so simple, that a piece of technology governs our behavior when if you really stepped back and thought about it, you’re really not constrained by their interpretation of the word. When you click on that button, there’s just software that starts moving that connects one profile to another. So, you can totally reframe it as a tool, for your purposes, and not necessarily what they intended it for.”

Elton: “I understand about that taking a step back because this whole semester has been about me getting ready to hit that button. But also, at the same time, taking that step back and saying to myself: ‘Okay, this is really going out there, and once it’s out there I can’t take it back. Is this what I want to share? Is this in line with that brand that I’ve been trying to establish the whole semester long?’”

Bret: “And that’s one of the big questions in A World Gone Social is that it’s easier than ever to speak, but it kind of ups the ante on responsibility. You have to realize that you’re responsible and accountable for everything you say and do. And if you’re not comfortable with that, then don’t say it, and don’t do it.”

Elton: “On the inverse, this idea of stepping back and being responsible, being accountable for what you send out, this is also such a powerful tool to direct and to manage your life and in a right manner, and in an effective way. To get your voice out on these different platforms, I am really coming to appreciate more and more on a daily basis.”

Bret: “Well, you appreciate it more because you’re doing it, you didn’t just read a book about it. Again, the immersion experience is different than just reading about it.”

Elton: “Oh yeah! And this is truly immersion, I’ve referenced it as ‘Social Media Boot Camp’ a couple times to friends but …”

Elton: “So, I don’t have anything else, I really appreciate you taking a brief amount of time from your day and I’ll see you in class on Tuesday.”

Bret: “Very cool, thank you.”

Well, that wraps up a glimpse into how this professor juggles multiple classes. Or, in my view, how this leader effectively manages multiple projects/businesses to the satisfaction of his clientele. We also got some insight into, like it or not, the social you’re engaging on in even reading this is. And how it’s radically changing the way we communicate. So, allow that metacognitive to step in more often, and remember that button that says “friend” has a more connected to it than those seven letters. Consciously take control of those clicks, you’ll be on the path to your own Social Ownership. I want to thank Dr. Bret for a great conversation regardless of the fact that I was in Hawaii while conducting the interview; technology is awesome!

Note: These last two posts were in continuation of the interviews I’m conducting with other project managers and leaders from a WIDE variety of industries and fields. See my 1st guest speaker post for a more detailed description.

Like this:

In a previous interview with Mark Babbitt, I mentioned that this blog started out as an assignment in Dr. Bret L. Simmons Personal Branding class (UNR MBA Program). As the class wraps up, I did have the pleasure of getting Bret to agree to an interview himself and in these next two (not last) posts, my interview with Bret represents the finale of the interview series for his class.

While I was recently on the Big Island of Hawaii for one of my own projects, over the video conferencing service Zoom.US, Bret and I talked about the different projects he manages each semester, what he tries to instill in his students, fine tuning over the years, and this transformational period we’re in right now when it comes to social media. Here’s how it went.

Elton: “So, as a professor that juggles three different classes each semester, what is the system that you have in place that is effective for you, to keep it straight in your head. And also for it to be effective for the students as well?”

Bret: (Laughs out loud!)

Elton: “What? Is that too general?”

Bret: “So, it looks like I have a system, and I do. But, I am by nature emergent and not really well organized. So for the courses I have to impose structure on myself. Interestingly enough, all three classes I teach are taught entirely differently. The 720 class (Organizational Behavior) is the most structured. It’s very much show-up, listen to a lecture, participate now and then and take some exams.”

“The class you’re in, 726 (Personal Branding), is very unstructured. Show up at the beginning of the semester, learn how to do all this stuff, and then go do it, produce a product during the semester. And as you know, it’s impossible to grade all that content. So it really relies on that self-accountability system and that’s the only way to do it. There’s just no way I can review forty students complete content every week.”

Elton: “And at that point, honestly, you should be to where you shouldn’t have to.”

Bret: “No, no I shouldn’t. People should be self-monitoring and providing self-feedback is my philosophy. You should be doing it for yourself, not doing it for me. Then, you’re self-reporting on how you’re doing and I do put some structure around the reporting system. But for those that are doing the work, the reporting system is a non-issue. The reporting system only becomes an issue for those that aren’t doing the work. It only constrains those who are not self-authorizing, accepting responsibility, and doing the work.”

Expert’s Input: I want to interject something briefly here to really drive home what Bret is talking about. In a piece by D. Deubel titled A Classroom’s Hierarchy of Needs, he builds off of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs and relates them to the classroom. I will leave it to you to read what the bottom four of the pyramid are but the fifth is Self-Actualization. And in the piece there is a quote that reads: “Teachers cannot be leaders until they understand that students are no longer obligated to follow them.” – Phillip Schiechty. From my experience in Bret’s classroom, I would be comfortable in saying he has crossed the line from teacher to leader. Now, back to the interview, we were talking about the difference between the classes (projects) Bret manages each semester.

“Finally, 772 (Changing Environments of Business), it’s entirely different too. It’s an output based class but a different structure. I try to teach courses that I want to learn something in. So, I want to learn something about social media, and change so I teach 726 and 772. And I’m actually thinking of ways to reinvent how I teach the basic 720 course so that I can learn more new things. I do learn new things every semester but I’m looking for a way to radically reinvent that course. Radically.”

Elton: “So what you’re telling me is that you have three different projects and you’re treating them as such.

Bret: “Yes, I approach each as a unique stand alone. So, this is my most challenging semester because there are three very distinct things and I have to totally switch gears during the week.”

Elton: “Walking from door to door pretty much?”

Bret: “Yes.”

Elton: “Like you said, you’re going to try to radically change the 720 course, for the benefit of yourself and for the benefit of the students, because when you’re benefitting from it that’s when that teaching can be effective for the students?”

Bret: “Yep, yep.”

Elton: “So, these changes or non-changes, how does that carry over if you see something like a red-flag? Where you’re saying ‘I need to stop doing that, or I need to keep doing this.’ Is that something you can incorporate in the summer, change and bring it in softly?”

Bret: “Well, I don’t think you can do it mid-stream. Because once you decide on a course of action and you develop a syllabus, it’s kind of a contract. But at the end of it, then I can reflect back and I make changes next semester going forward.”

Elton: “In keeping with the change process, with the professor/class reviews that we do and the end of each semester, do you kind of look at the extremes not necessarily in the middle? About where the students are and how they feel about the class?”

Bret: “You know, interestingly enough I give very little weight to the severe complainers. Because really, they are complaining because they had to do the work essentially. The ones I really pay attention to are the ones who find the positive things about the course. Because I believe every course I teach is overwhelmingly more valuable than it is a pain. There are some small things that need to be tweaked but is the entire course a disaster? No. I have enough confidence in what I’m doing to know that’s not true.”

“So, where I find the biggest gems is among the people who are finding the bright spots but then also saying: ‘You know if you would do this a little bit differently it would work a lot better.’ That’s the more valuable feedback because it’s coming from a more credible source, for me anyway.”

Elton: “And then they are seeing something not only that might be tweaked but also offering solutions at the same time?”

Bret: “Right. And for the most part, the people that speak in that voice actually really wanted to learn something, but maybe something got in the way of them learning something. The other people, they just wanted to get the grade and if something got in the way of them making the grade, now they’re pissed and they’re just going to take it out on me.”

Elton: “I find that in the projects that I work on, if a guy comes to me and says: ‘You know, this is awful. But let’s find a way around it for the betterment of the project.’ That is very effective in not only getting my attention, but also in getting it addressed.”

Bret: “Yeah, you could treat each comment as a signal but you need to look for a pattern of comments over a number of semesters. And when you see a pattern, when taken together, that can be treated as a signal. But individual comments that you’ve never seen before should only be noted and not necessarily reacted to. You should watch to see if a pattern emerges in the comments. Then, as it emerges as a pattern, and it looks the same when looked at in different ways, now you’re got something you can really act on.”

Elton: “Right. Similar to what I’m finding as I go through these courses, the answers are in the numbers, the data doesn’t lie. If you’re able to record and chart those data points, that’s where you’re really going to find the answers and that process applies to a lot of different things.”

Moving on: “In each semester, is there something that you try to instill? Beyond the objectives of the course, beyond why the students are there? Is there anything you want the students to take away when the semester finishes? Something positive? Or do you leave that to them? Let them chose to take something positive out of it?”

Bret: “Yeah… well that’s kind of my approach to all of it is you’re going to get out of it what you put into it. And I try for that to be a message that comes through each course. That: ‘Don’t just chase the numbers.’ I’m just here to put the structure in. As you approach this material you should figure out what the potential is for you and what you could learn from it and go beyond the simple structure that I have provided. And so hopefully, every semester I’ve created a course where people have the opportunity to do that. Most people don’t; most people are focused on the grade: ‘What do I need to do the make the grade? How do I get the grade?’ And that’s not just their posture towards class, that’s their posture towards life. It’s hard to get the message across.”

Elton: “Right.”

Bret: “But every semester, some people get it. But it’s not many.”

Elton: “This really reminds me of the conversation I was having with Mark Babbitt. When we were talking about the role of a facilitator. Talking about giving them the tools, creating the channels and then walking out of the room. Then, it’s when they start coming to you, and say ‘Hey! We did it! But we tweaked it, we made it even better. We really improved on what you allowed us to do.’ So that role as a facilitator, I really see that being a part of your role in a big way.”

Bret: “Yes. For most of my classes that’s what I’m trying to do. For the 726 and 772, it’s a lot more of the facilitator stuff. 720 is again the most structured because it’s ostensibly the first course people are going to take in the MBA program.”

I think that’s enough for today. We got into a very honest and candid discussion on Bret classes (projects) and how he manages them each semester. What he tries to instill in his students plus a little on the fine tuning aspects from semester to semester. Tomorrow, we’ll get into a very specific incident that I witnessed in one of his classes plus we’ll talk on this transformational period we’re in right now when it comes to social media. So, stick around for some more expert’s input, and more insight into this leaders effective handling of his projects.

Like this:

In her office at Bristlecone Holdings I sat down with Kristin Stith. But I didn’t sit down with her to talk about Bristlecone, an incredible start-up in Reno, NV. No, I sat down to talk about her involvement in the BiggestLittleCity movement. A different incredible start-up in a different way. The movement is comprised of a group of volunteers who became inspired to create a campaign that is unique to the BiggestLittleCity (Reno, Nevada). They believe this type of effort has to come from the community so it can speak to the community. We’re here to build something great for the city we love. That’s from the about page at BiggestLittleCity and I went to see Kristin to lean more.

Elton: “You were actually in my Personal Branding class with Dr. Bret L. Simmons class recently, and you were talking about the BiggestLittleCity project and I would like to know a little bit more. So, in that initial talk, you talked about how it evolved and kind of what’s going on and I would like a more personal view of the interaction inside and outside the group. So maybe if you could start, we could talk a little bit about how the dynamics of your team work? Where’s everybody coming from and then how does that interaction go out to the community?”

Kristin: “So, what’s really unique about this group of individuals, this group of volunteers is that during the day, for the most part, all of us are entrepreneurs. They all own their own businesses, well I don’t, I work for Bristlecone Holdings, but just about 90% of the group is entrepreneurs. So during the day, they are all competing for clients within the city and within the same industry because for the most part, all of them own their own marketing agencies. That was the cool part, a lot of these people compete with each other during the day and when it came to this task, I mean all personal egos had to stop at the door. Then when we walked in, anything that was BLC related, it was not about us. It was not about who’s better at this or who’s better at that, it was all about getting the job done. You see, we would have multiple photographers and multiple web designers and if anyone wanted it to be about them, or made it anything personal, we were ‘Get out’ because there’s no room for that. We all had to be collaborative.”

Elton: “Especially since it was volunteer work?”

Kristin: “Yes, yes especially. And we all agreed that our name was not going to be on anything we produced; we didn’t want that. We didn’t want any attention like that. And the people that did, some people kind of got filtered out. But for the most part, everyone was very, very capable and effectively left that ego at the door and we all came together to get this job done.”

Expert’s Input: Short intermission here. After some digging, I found a great piece about an accelerator program for entrepreneurs and start-up’s by TJ Muehleman, titled Check Your Ego at the Door. In it, he talks about the title but he also lists five things to keep in mind before entering the program. They are:

Prepare for brutally honest feedback.

Move fast. Real fast.

Take advantage of mentors and don’t be afraid to ask for help.

Don’t forget who you are.

Have fun.

Something tells me these are things every member of the BiggestLittleCity team experienced/agreed to when the program started, and every day after. Something that, whether or not was verbally discussed, it was necessary for the movement to succeed as it did. Let’s get back to Kristin.

“So, how it was broken down is that, we are all from the marketing industry so we had PR, we had copywriters, we had photography, videography, social media, and we had web developers. Then, we had straight creative directors who were just, kind of the whole mental magic behind the campaign. We all came together and we all kind of knew what talents and what kind of what pools we should group ourselves into. The creative team, they were in charge of what this whole campaign was going to look like, what the movement was going to look like, what we were going to do. Because we knew we wanted to gather all of the good that was going on in Reno, and combat all of the bad. But how were we going to do that? That was up to the creative team.”

“So the creative team started, they developed this genius campaign, colors, fonts, taglines, the whole concept was developed by them. Then all the other teams kind of grabbed pieces that they needed and went out on their own. So for instance, the web developers got all of the things they might need, whether it was images or fonts or copywriting and pulled all of that stuff and then plugged it into the website as needed. The social media team kind of grabbed the same types of assets and then pushed them out on social. Again, the creative team was really kind of the engine behind all of it.”

Elton: “The brains?”

Kristin: “Yeah, the brains. But then all the other aspects were the legs that made that brain move. That’s how that all happened.”

Elton: “And then from that structure, you guys had all these ideas that you put together. How did it get to the people? How did it get to the public?”

Kristin: “So these legs each had a responsibility that touched the public in some way shape or form. For example, the PR leg, they were in charge of press releases and getting the word out via the news or the newspaper. They were in charge of really spreading the word in a more traditional fashion. Typically the PR professional is also very talented at writing so they would also do some pieces for social. Anything that they developed got pushed to social and then that got pushed out. Photography, same type of deal. They were developing imagery that got put on billboards that was touching the public. We had a woman on our team that was strictly in charge of all of our media buys and so she gets on the phone with owners of all the billboards in town, local radio stations, and local news stations and says, ‘Hey, I have this group of volunteers, I need some pro-bono space from you. This is for the betterment of the city, I need you to jump on board. I need you to do me this favor.’ She basically called her whole phone book and said “Remember that one time? I need you to do me a favor now.” We were on the radio, we were on TV, and we were on billboards. We got all of these spots produced and again, all of the artwork for that, for the actual spots was created by the creative team and then taken by media and pushed out on all those media channels. That was more of the traditional and digital channels of reaching out.”

“Then, we also had one-on-one contact. We had several different events where people would come out. For instance, we advertised for people to come down to Campo one night, from six to eight and tell the BiggestLittleCity your story; we want to hear your story. So people would come down, tell us their story and we actually had a laptop set up that we were typing up people’s stories to put on the website. And that was just more content, more content for us to speak into the campaign and more content to go on the website. Bottom line, it’s more content for us to generate why Reno is a great place to live.”

Elton: “And who better to talk about that than …”

Kristin: “… the people! Right?”

Elton: “Exactly.”

Kristin: “We did a lot of work, again, this whole creative marketing campaign, but what made it genuine was that these people were telling their stories. They were just pouring it out and some of these stories were really heavy, they were really dramatic of what living in this town has done for them. Love and loss, just all kinds of really, really cool stories that these people were offering to us to put on the website because we informed them of the cause and they were ‘Sure, yeah, love to do it. I’d love to tell my story, tell what this town has done for me.’ I specifically remember an event we had at Whitney Peak. This was about two years ago when Whitney Peak first opened, a couple restaurants had come and gone and I was thinking ‘Is this hotel going to make it? What’s going on here?’ But now, it’s really cool hotel and doing really well. So, they opened up a bar or a portion of the bar for us. We had a ton of people come in and we just shot videos of them. We had them sit down in a booth, we had great lighting (we had a lighting team that was doing that) and we just asked people ‘Why do you love Reno? Tell us your story.’ Some stories were 15 seconds long and some stories were much longer.”

Elton: “Lots of content? (Haha)”

Kristin: “Yes! Lots and lots of content. So then after that, we went out and spoke to any organization, class, business or non-profit, anyone that wanted to hear about what we were doing. For example, Century 21 would called us up and said ‘Hey, we are a local office, and we want our office to get involved. We want all of our employees to submit stories. Can you come down and tell us what you’re doing?’ And so we’d all go down and show up. Microsoft in Reno has gotten involved, the casinos have gotten involved, and that’s the one-on-one part of it. So, on top of people seeing it wherever they were going, we were also trying to put a face to it too. To give it that grassroots, cause how grassroots is it if you are just seeing it all over the TV? Versus seeing people walk into a room and talk about what they are doing? That was really impactful.”

Elton: “There needs to be that connection?”

Kristin: “Yes, yes!”

Elton: “Well, it’s a tremendous project and I’m in awe of it. And so, as we wrap it up, what would you like to see happen with it? You guys have been doing this for a couple years now, where do you want to see it go? What happens from here?”

Kristin: “I may have a different opinion than everybody else, but I am being completely realistic with you, this, this is not about us. This whole campaign is about the people so it needs to get to a point where all of these volunteers who have put a lot of time and resources into the project, can step away and it grows and it moves. What I think would be really effective is if we got an organization that has money, that has some manpower, that has some talent, if they can take what we developed and continue to push it on. Ideally the City of Reno. If the City of Reno would take a marketing campaign, a logo, and a tagline that was actually developed by a group of volunteers of their own volition, I think that would be adopted really well. So instead …”

Elton: “… not just adopted by them but adopted by the community at large?”

Kristin: “Right! It’s not like a group of people who are getting paid to come up with this brilliant tagline that could be applied to any city in the United States. But it’s a group that did it for free, because they love this city and actually put a lot of blood sweat and tears into it. That is grassroots and that’s how things can get adopted. And that is how they sustain and that is how they move. So, instead of these agencies that are getting paid (and that’s fine, that’s what they’re supposed to do), instead of them kind of shouting what we’re going to be, it was our own core telling them …”

Elton: “… you had to ask too right? You guys went out and asked Reno: ‘What do you want to be?’ That is so powerful!”

Kristin: “Yep, absolutely. Again, we’re not getting paid to do this, it’s not about us, and it was strictly because we wanted to develop something that would stick with the people. I do think it’s going to need that extra push for it to really stick. We’re not going to do this forever. We’ve done it for a long time and it’s fun and it’s great …”

Elton: “… but it needs that new energy.”

Kristin: “Yeah, new energy, someone else. And I do think we’ll stick as long as we can. We’ll stick because we’re all stubborn I think.”

Elton: “And you care about it.”

Kristin: “Yeah, we care about it a lot and a lot of outside people care about it. They ask, ‘What’s going on with that? I haven’t heard from you guys in a while.’ A lot of people want to see this move on. I think it needs to get adopted by someone big in order for this to really sustain.”

Elton: “Well, like I said earlier, I am in awe of the project and I am very thankful to you and the group as a local for the tremendous work and for the perception that is changing out in the world about us, about the Biggest Little City.”

Expert’s Input: Concluding this piece, I would like to share a post by Esther Schindler titled Tips forProject Management in Volunteer Organizations. There are some good tips is you ever find yourself in a project manager role in a volunteer organization and I’ll let you look for yourself. But, I do want to share this one part: “In a volunteer organization people have to be motivated to get the job done, and they do it for every possible reason besides being paid. As the person in charge of the project, it means you need to develop different motivational skills, some of which do not come naturally.” It’s clear that BiggestLittleCity is exemplary if this and probably a few steps beyond.

I want to thank Kristin for taking the time to sit down and chat about something that she obviously is passionate about and something that I’m going support in any fashion possible. So, if you’re in the Reno area, or even if you’re not, look BiggestLittleCity up, it’s an amazing outreach program and they are broadcasting the truth about Reno, Nevada. The truth that comes from the people that live here and that have lived here for a long time. And that truth is “Reno, Nevada is a great place and live and we love ya!”

This post is in continuation of the interviews I’m conducting with other project managers and leaders from a WIDE variety of industries and fields. See my 1st guest speaker post for a more detailed description.

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With the permission of the Whitney Peak staff, I had a chance to sit down in their lobby with Michael Tragash of YelpReno. We got to talking a lot about some the things that Michael has been doing with YelpReno, with his staff, and with the community at large. Being new to Yelp in an active manner, Michael helped explain how it works for all those actively participating and what it means to him.

Elton: “I’m going to start really broad hear because I think you hit on some great things when it comes down to the product, the people, the event and your interaction with all three. So, can you tell me how your views on all three drive YelpReno?”

Michael: “Well, for me, it’s all about the people. It’s not so much about the business or a product. It’s about the people that are creating that product, making that happen here in the community. And those are the stories that need to be told. Yelp’s mission is to connect people to great local businesses. And, I’ve adapted that mission to connect the people (you and me) to the people that operate those great local businesses and share those stories with the rest of the world. You know, you love walking into a business where you feel like you know the guy behind the counter. And that’s the bottom line so if those people are out front, then mission accomplished! You get to know the business owner.”

“But at the same time, the premise of everything for me is partnership, it’s a two-way street and it’s about establishing value by offering value first. You know, I could ask you to lone me twenty bucks and you’d be like “who are you?” But if you had asked me first, and I had given it to you, when I came to you and said I need forty, you’d be like “yeah, no problem. He loaned it to me the first time of his own good will.” So that’s kind of how I like to make it work. I will continue to offer so that I’m of value to someone else. So when the time comes to have that value returned, it’s just natural”

Expert’s Input: I brief interruption here. I really liked what Michael was saying about “establishing value by offering value first.” So I did some digging and I found a blog post that I believe encapsulates this idea. Its’ a Life Skills type of blog titled Create Success by Creating Value for Others and amongst some other great stuff it defines this value by value first as a shift in thinking. It says:

“A quantum shift: When we focus on creating more value for other people, it completely shifts our perspective. We will naturally start to move away from self-serving motives as we increasingly consider the welfare of others. This causes our own happiness and success to become a byproduct of our efforts to contribute to the happiness and success of others.”

I think Michael is a great example of someone who has moved away from these “self-serving” motives the post references. And the results is not just a happier Michael, it’s a more successful YelpReno. Now, back to the conversation.

Elton: “Right, I think I got it. But to clarify, how would you put that into the terms of bringing me, who may not know this individual or what this product is about “in”? What is driving you in getting me to know this individual or this product? How are you facilitating that type of interaction?”

Michael: “So, say we’re talking about a “Yelper.” As a Yelper, you’re already passionate about local businesses. You write reviews to let people know what’s great, you share the not so great in a manner that is constructive, that’s letting business owners know what they can do better. So your interest and your passion for these local businesses and learning about them already exists. Right? So, I’ll explain that to a business owner, that Yelpers are positive people that are here to support your business. Their reviews will live on for a long time and will help lots of other people find your business. And it will also help you improve your processes over time. So I focus my efforts with business owners on explaining that premise in a way that they can relate too in two ways. One, I understand the processes of businesses and in looking at Yelp reviews, you can understand where exactly something went wrong. And two, when it comes to a business owner, their passion is running a great business, end of story. Whether that’s producing awesome pasta, making great pizza, or selling a great widget, it doesn’t’ really matter. A great service, that’s what their passionate about, that’s why they’re in the industry they’re in.”

“And so, giving them an opportunity to sit on a stage and explain their passion to people whose passion is to understand their passion, it’s a natural two-way street. Yelp is just the conduit between the two. And what’s written and shared it just one way, one other way of getting the word out about what they do. Yelp events are that platform for showing it off. Yelp is the way to share that dialog and tell that story through photos and writing. But also, it’s within a community of individuals who share that same passion for understanding what’s happening in our local business community.”

Elton: “That’s a great way of putting it. That’s a great way of explaining it to me, someone who is new to this online community you’re talking about. I definitely now have a better understating of it.”

“A little bit earlier we were exploring how the next phase for you and YelpReno is really about cementing down some of these processes you’re talking about, some of these events and what you are organizing. Can you tell me how, in bringing in that new staff that we were talking about, how that’s going to enable you to do this in an even more effective manner than what we’ve been talking about?”

Michael: “Well, as a community manager I wear a lot of hats that involve everything from event planning to marketing the site and to social media. And it’s a manageable work load for one individual but it doesn’t allow you the time to focus your efforts on any one specific thing. And there are things that “move the needle” for what I do, and there are other things that are part of the bigger picture of continuing a strong presence here in Reno. And so, over the last eighteen months in this role, I’ve learned where my skills are best suited to help me accomplish my goals, and which things are helping to move that needle I’m talking about in the right direction; where my time is essentially best spent. And as anyone might know, a good CEO isn’t good at everything. They surround themselves with professionals that can help support exactly what’s going on. And while I am effective at all of the hats that I wear, in all of my hats there are people out there that are going to be better than me.”

“And so, I have hired two interns to help augment my skillsets in two specific areas. One, to help me execute ideas that will both make what they are doing, and also that “hat”, for that effort, more effective. In this way they will learn the “why”. Because as we discussed, understanding the why we’re doing this is so critical. We’re not just posting to Facebook, “what” are we posing to Facebook? “How” is that helping to connect people to local businesses? It has to support the mission statement. So:

How is it helping YelpReno be more effective?

Why are we facilitating these relationships?

What are we doing to maintain those relationships?

How can we make more relationships more effective?

That’s one area. The other area is helping with marketing and special events. How to make those events have more of a “WOW” factor? Make them more exciting, more attractive and more facilitative of those relationships we’re talking about. The people not on Yelp, the people on Yelp, and of course the people on the business side.”

Expert’s Input: What Michael is doing in bringing on the two interns is key for him, but not as key as how he’s going to incorporate them into YepReno. The best way to describe it is in a piece titled Why You Need to Delegate to Be Effective by Pamela McClinton. She really nails down what Michael is doing:

“So, while it may be easier to “do-it-yourself,” raising the bar on your leadership involves making sure your team is fully equipped to handle their day-to-day responsibilities. Delegating tasks helps improve the skills of your team members and creates an overall collaborative culture that shares knowledge and prevents information silos.”

Michael is going to equip his staff effectively, and the results will be a more effective YelpReno. And avoiding those information silos referenced is so critical, even in a three-person team, those communication channels are vital for Michael’s system to work with the outside community. Let’s wrap this up.

Elton: “Because when it comes down to it, from what I’m understanding about Yelp and the community, it’s not about the product, it’s about the people and the people?”

Michael: “Well, you still have to have a great product. I don’t want it to seem that you can make a bad product and have a win. The fact is that Yelp reviewer’s reference service of the product, and who’s providing that service? The People. So, if you understand or know the people that you’re interacting with, then the likelihood is your service experience is going to be a little bit better. But, you still have to have a good product, you can’t bad food and have a nice décor and have that be an excellent experience.”

Elton: “Okay, I believe I have a much better understanding of what Yelp is, what it is for you, and where it’s headed. Michael, I don’t have any other questions for you at this time. I think that what we touched on was at the heart of the great things that you’re doing right now.”

Reno is lucky to have Michael on board as the YelpReno representative and I would like to thank him again for his time in sitting down with me, an up and coming Yelper, and explaining the “why’s, what’s, and the how’s” of YelpReno. Look for him at upcoming events which you can check out on the YelpReno Events page. You can also check him out on the YelpReno Facebook page and Twitter.

Note: This post is in continuation of the interviews I’m conducting with other project managers and leaders from a WIDE variety of industries and fields. See my 1st guest speaker post for a more detailed description.

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This is part II of my interview with Mark Babbitt, co-author of A World Gone Social and CEO at YouTern. It’s been a couple days since Part I so it should have had a chance to hit bottom by now. Let’s just jump right back in and pick up where we left off … where were we? Oh yes, Actionable Inspiration.

Elton: “I like that, ‘actionable’. It’s not just those inspirational words, those key words I think that even close to a few years ago you heard and still hear bandied about in the conference room or on the internet. It’s taking those things and putting them into practice and that’s the difference from what I’m finding. “

“So, (a little more history) the last three posts I did on my blog were interviews and what I’m doing is I’m trying to tie this leadership, this project management idea across all industries so the first one I did was with an adjunct professor at UNR and we talked about his mortgage brokerage firm and about him and his team and something that he was very passionate about and that was trust; I believe it was a great post. The next one I actually interviewed my brother. He’s a father of four and he and his family have a goal to move up into a farm or some sort of ranch and so we talked about how the families goals are aligned with each other, with the end result, how that works in his home. And also this idea of leading by example, him as a father, so I tied that into the post. Then, the most recent one was a post with a local lawyer who does personal injury and we talked about again trust, we talked about getting to know the client, getting to know them personally and them getting to know you. And about your staff, relying on them, expanding on that team concept.”

“I’ve also done two other interviews but I haven’t posted them yet but what I’m finding is that engaging conversation that you’re talking about, answering questions directly, is something that well, the social exists out there but sometimes that’s not enough. And people want to talk about what their passionate about, they want to share their experiences associated with these passions and so sometimes it’s that platform, that social that isn’t enough. I’m finding that being a facilitator of those platforms, of these ideas is really bringing people, mind you in the five that I’ve done so far, has really cemented in my mind that there is this opportunity as a leader not only to practice these things but to get in there and it move along those lines of the stuff that goes on when you’re not in the room, allowing for that to happen, creating a path for it to happen or a downstream affect where it just come out at some point. And so, as I’m talking about this, I would like to hear what your thoughts are on being that facilitator in a social world and what that really can produce.”

Mark: “Well, Elton, I think especially as you do these you’ll find two things happen, at least I have. One it sounds like you’re very comfortable in that chief facilitator officer role and that’s important because what you do in the process is you not only show a vulnerable personal brand, I mean it takes guts to do what you’re doing you know? It takes guts to be the guy asking the right questions and it takes commitment to do the research so you know which questions to ask and so that’s not an easy thing to do. But the end results is you’re providing value to those who eventually become members of the community that you’re forming whether intentionally or not. As you do more and more of these interviews and they provide value to the viewers, you’re opening yourself up and you’re providing content that’s worthy of peoples time and it doesn’t get any more social than that.”

“You know before we had social media, and this is where the tools finally do come in Elton, you and I would go have a cup of coffee and we would have this wonderful conversation and it would stay between the two of us and the eavesdroppers at Starbucks right? And that’s it, right? Now, with social and YouTube and Twitter and Instagram and all the rest and now Periscope we can now share these conversations right? And I don’t know about you but I digest them in a unique way for me, even though I’m an author of a book and have another one I’m working on I haven’t actually read a book in forever. I listen to them, I’m a huge Audible.Com fan right. So I listen to them as I’m driving or thinking, or working on a project at home. And I was doing that yesterday! If you would have seen me yesterday I was snow white with drywall dust listening to a book and that’s the way I digest it. Well, it’s the same way with these videos, the kind you’re creating now, I don’t watch them often but I can listen to them while I’m thinking or as I’m doing social medial catchup or writing a new blog post. They actually inspire me to do better things. You don’t have to be Guy Kawasaki or Jay Baer to do what you’re doing. What you’re doing right now is important work and the more of us that take that facilitator role very seriously and provide really good content, value instead of noise, the better off we all are.“

Elton: “That really roles right into with where I want to wrap up at and I mentally noted something that you said but … well that’s lost. Anyway, I also love Audible.com too, by the way, avid fan. I do some of my best learning that way. The time to be able to sit down and read a book, this semester anyway I’m finding, except for the books of course that have been assigned (haha).”

“So, in my own life, and this is more on a personal level to wrap things up, this idea of more social less media how it’s affecting me and my life, like I said earlier, a few months ago I had zero presence. The mind shift and you even commented on the outward view in how you interact with people and life itself has changed significantly. You touched on something in the presentation the other night, ‘how many of you are uncomfortable on twitter? How many of you are uncomfortable doing blog posts?’ And I raised my hand because social media has destroyed my comfort level.”

Mark: “Just for the record, you were the only one brave enough to raise your hand. Just so you know, just so the audience, just so everyone one knows (haha).”

Elton: “I couldn’t help it! I was thinking: ‘Me! Me! Me! This is scaring me so much!’ And so before this class, I knew where I was at, I was very comfortable in it and I was intent to remain there. And then getting into Dr. Bret’s class it was like ‘okay, here you go!’ And there is this thing, a feeling that you get when you get when you get out of that comfort zone, kind of anxious energy, a little bit nervous, at least for me, and that anxious energy is now constant, it’s always there. Like there is this eye one me for lack of a better term, and I love it and I see the value in it. Being actively engaged, doing these interviews, asking the questions, you’re right, it’s not easy. I love the idea of it being social, and I think this is the biggest idea I’ve taken out of it personally and incorporated into my life: less media.”

“Being social is not about everything that I’m doing right now on these platforms, it’s about everything I’m doing right now off these platforms. The platform is giving me a voice for all those actions. It is giving me a place to put those things so that can be received and interpreted and consumed as needed, as necessary. Right now there’s not a huge audience or a big following but that’s not the point I think. I think the point initially for me, in this exercise I’m going through, is creating a mind shift within me that is going to affect not only my coworkers but my personal life. And so to wrap things up, I would like to hear, on a personal level maybe, a little bit more into how this has, what we’ve been talking about, has taken root in your life.”

Mark: “Well as we talked about and as I talked about in the book, social did not come naturally to me at all. I’m basically an introvert. My wife calls me a ‘situational introvert’. You know, I love getting up in front of people, I love talking about my passion, I like to make people laugh once in a while, make people think. But basically I’d rather be at home drinking a beer or on the river throwing a line in the water, right? So, it did not come naturally to me at all, but here’s what I found. I found that I could express myself say on Twitter, one-hundred and forty characters at a time. I could express myself much easier hiding behind a keyboard than I could in person. And, I have a little Irish In me and sometimes things just come out of my mouth and I’m not exactly known for having the best filter in the world …”

Elton: “… I can relate to that one-hundred percent …”

Mark: “… so, at least when I’m keyboarding I get to think for a second before I hit the send button where you, you saw me in my presentation, I said a couple things that got me into trouble. And that, that comes naturally to me and social didn’t. I had to work my way into it and I found it a comforting stream for me eventually. Now you throw blogging and you go from one-hundred and forty characters to six-hundred to eight-hundred words at a time and you get to expand on those thoughts, right. And then you start doing interviews and eventually you write a book and the whole thing just kind of grew. And it has absolutely and completely changed my life. And here’s how: I’ve always been what I’ve considered to be a social leader and as a leader I can be a dictator, I have five kids, I’ve coached sports, youth sports for almost thirty years now, I have three companies I’m helping to run, I can be a decent dictator …”

Readers: My apologies, the computer I was on “hic-upped” and so a string of Marks words were lost here. I decided the context could be lost if, what would have been a large chunk, was omitted. So let’s continue.

Mark: “… groupthink, and this social allows me to do that. And I’ll tell you how else it’s changed my life, Elton, really quick. Is, I have met more people on social media that I would have never met otherwise. I know people that have helped me with YouTern, helped me with SwitchandShift, helped me write a book. Brilliant brilliant people that I’ve looked up to for years and would have never had a chance to meet otherwise. And on social we can meet all those people, and we can reach out and jump on a Skype call or have a Zoom meeting. And you’re talking with somebody that you’ve read his book twenty years ago and now you’re having a conversation like you and I are having right now … it’s freak’n amazing how social opens doors and starts conversations and connects people that have something in common. And for that alone social has completely changed my life. I mean, I was at this thing in New York the other day and I literally looked around the room and I looked at the people that were there and it was like a who’s who of social, a who’s who of Amazon.com authors and I just sat there and I thought ‘holy crap, I’m sitting in the room with these people’ right, ‘this is amazing.’ So this is how much social has changed my life and so I admire you for jumping in with both feet I admire you for leaving your comfort zones behind and I’m telling you, you keep doing that and really cool things are going to happen because you’re gonna meet people that you would have never met otherwise and you’re going to do things you never would have imagined before.”

Elton: “Well, it’s happening already, this interview right here is kind of blow’n my mind, I’ll be honest about that. So, I don’t have anything more, you really hit on the four things I wanted to touch upon. I appreciate your time so very much and enjoyed your book immensely and I want to wish you the best.”

Mark: “Well thank you Elton and any time I can help you, please let me know.”

Elton: “Absolutely! Absolutely. Have a great day.”

Mark: “You too Elton.”

I’ll reiterate what I said in Part I, “WOW!” Even when I transcribed the video I got excited all over again on where social has to potential to take me as a project manager and as a leader. I hope that you perhaps are at least glimpsing some if its potential now too. Not only from a digital perspective, but from a personal perspective. Because remember, A World Gone Social is not about the media or the platforms, it’s about that chance to embrace that Social that exists in all of us, that social that makes us nervous and anxious and has the power to positively affect us all in a very big and a very real way.

A Few Notes:

This post was not a plug for Marks book though if you decide to pick it up, you won’t regret it. It was however about sharing an intimate coffee style conversation with a world that hose gone social.

I tried to keep the syntax of mine and Mark’s conversation in tact as much as possible so that the emotion we were both expressing while talking about social and leadership had an opportunity to be transferred to our “eavesdroppers” in the “coffee shop.” I hope it was somewhat accomplished.

This post is in continuation of the interviews I’m conducting with other project managers and leaders from a WIDE variety of industries and fields. See my 1st guest speaker post for a more detailed description.

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I would like to preface this next guest with a little history. This blog started out as an assignment in Dr. Bret L. Simmons Personal Branding class (UNR MBA Program) and has since turned into an extraordinary experience. Case in point, getting to sit and have a conversation with Mark Babbitt, the co-author of A World Gone Socialand currently CEO at YouTern, just to name two of the many things he has been, or is currently involved in.

At the request of Dr. Bret, Mark recently came and was a guest speaker to the class. It was tremendous to have him there as the class was about to finish A World Gone Social. I had reached out to Mark on LinkedIn prior to the class in an attempt to garner a brief audience with him in the continuation of the interview series currently taking place in this blog. He responded that he’d be happy to oblige and after an in-class introduction we were both able to carve out half an hour a couple days later. On the video conferencing service Zoom.US we had a very “over coffee” style conversation. It was relaxed, open, and I will be honest, a somewhat intimate look into both of our views on social, its place in the world, and how it has impacted both of us.

There was so much great dialog I feel that withholding any part of the conversation would be a disservice to a world gone social and with that in mind, I have broken this blog post up into a two parts, there is just that much quality content. So, that’s more than enough of an introduction, I now give you my conversation with Mark Babbitt.

Elton: “Mark, to fill you in on Dr. Bret’s Class, he has asked us to get on all of these platforms and for me personally, it’s been quite transformative. Because two months ago, I had zero presence on social media, absolutely none. So, it wasn’t ‘hey lets ease into this’, it was dropping me right into the middle of the war zone: Facebook, LinkedIn, Google+, Twitter and to start a blog where we asked us to pick a blog topic and that was in-line with our ‘personal brand’. Where we wanted to go with the project and with the class was in-line with where we wanted to go professionally I believe was Dr. Bret’s goal. So, I chose: Project Management.”

Mark: “Okay, yes.”

Elton: “I’m really, for lack of a better term, I’m really drinking the Kool-Aid when it comes to these books, your book, Dr. Bret’s class, and again, it’s been transformative. So, now that you have a background, the blog itself with a broad topic like project management, you can transition that into leadership, you can say things about group dynamics or things about teamwork. So, it’s really given me the ability to cover a wide range of topics. Some of the things I’ve recently hit upon were groupthink and engagement. And I was hitting on engagement before I read your book and afterwards, it just concreted everything into place. So, to start, from the perspective of a leader or an expert, and not necessarily in a flat but more of an agile, nano corp. type of business model, what happens to people in those positions in your mind as we move forward in a social world?”

Mark: “Well, Elton, I tell ya, being a project manager of sorts myself especially in my early engineering days in Silicon Valley that was my first experience in leading without permission. Because project managers really rarely have the title. They have a lot of responsibility but they vary rarely have the title that will allow them to lead others. And in the industrial age that was a problem. Here we are, we’re responsible for all the resources, all the tools, all the time-sharing and of course the end result. And we didn’t have the position and the chain of command that we could MAKE people do things. A lot of people in our projects didn’t even work in the same departments let alone under us. And so, project managers a long time ago had to learn, for lack of a better word, had to learn to be social. They had to inspire action rather than demand it.”

“And as you said, there are so many things that go into project management, they are a part of the social aspect. You had to take it and make it even bigger and better than it was on paper and when you started. And so it’s funny that a lot of really really good leaders when they finally get the title, when they finally get “permission” to lead, they have a project management background. And sometimes even an engineering background because of the structure necessary and the social aspect of it necessary needed to do their job well; they already get this. And it might be why you’re drinking the Kool-Aid personally because you, I bet you’ve experienced this in your world especially as you have transitioned between industries. You know our soft skills, our ability to lead, to motivate others towards a common mission, that’s one hell of a skill to have and it’s a very social skill.”

Elton: “I agree with you when you say: ‘sometimes even before you get the title you’ve experienced it firsthand.’ And a lot of times it’s: ‘here, here’s more work, same amount of pay and we really appreciate what you’re doing but let’s just see how this goes.’”

Mark: “Yep, yep. And if you’re an engineer you know how it feels anyway and then throw project management on top of that. But nothing sets you up for success later than being able to call it ‘an all-out experience.’ One of the things that’s really funny, and you made a good point Elton, it’s not always about the compensation, it’s about what we’re learning out of the deal. It’s the reputation we’re building, it’s the personal branding and integrity that we’re building that’s going to be recognized later and as you said, boy once you’re known for that it’s a lot easier to move forward in your career, once you’re known as a social leader and people respect you for that. It’s a pretty cool thing.”

Elton: “It’s very exciting that’s for sure. Moving forward, the next thing I’m really trying to embrace, and not only embrace but incorporate into my leadership with my team interaction is this idea of engagement. And you hit on a couple things in the book:

Engagement is the cornerstone of the Social Age. Active listening.

Engagement isn’t good marketing, its good content.

Engagement has purpose and is quantifiable.

Engagement is an emotional investment.

Engagement is maximum effort in exchange for maximum results, recognition, and respect.

All very relevant from what I find. And some of the things I was hitting on in my blog was first actively engaging and the result is going to be effective engagement. This idea that not only are we involved but we’re getting out of our chair. We’re getting out of maybe a role type or we’re getting to maybe where the action is, literally an active engagement. And then, the results, from what I’m seeing, what I’m hoping for, is this effective engagement where you start to see some of that push back on the other side to where not only is it having effect in your team or in your project, but it leads to things down the road. And so, this idea of active engagement with effective results that follow, could you talk a little bit on your thoughts in how maybe this doesn’t necessarily involve social media, but more, being social?”

Mark: “Well Elton, this is where we say over and over again that social is not about social media, it’s not tools or technology it’s a mindset. It’s how we communicate with others. It’s facilitating and we say this in the book, many times as a leader we become chief facilitating officer regardless of what our real title is because our job is to inspire that engagement. And if we do our job well, even if we’re not in the room we’ve created an environment where the people that are jointly responsible for seeing a project through are now communicating well without us, without our influence. Our job, I think, as leaders, as project managers, as CEO’s is to provide what I call ‘Actionable Inspiration’.

I’ll define that just for a second. You think about a Tony Robin’s style leader or motivator. We listen and we love what we hear and we hear Tony talk and then we leave the room or we leave the auditorium or we turn off the video and damn we feel good. We don’t know why and we don’t know what to do next, but man we feel good. So, actionable inspiration takes that a step further. We not only want to accomplish something that maybe we hadn’t before but we want to take action. We want to get off our butts, we want to join this movement that’s happening around this certain mission right now and we want to take action.

Actionable inspiration is sustainable, it’s tangible, you can eventually quantify your results. Inspiration by itself is frankly, it’s just talk. And that’s where we know we’ve hit the pinnacle of engagement, those two things. One, when the engagement is happening even when we’re not in the room, when stuff gets done, and they come to you, your formal or your informal team comes to you and says ‘here’s what we got, we just made the idea bigger.’ That the biggest compliment a leader can get because you inspired that, you created that environment not only where action is acceptable, it’s expected. And again, you’re idea, this little thing you started with has now gotten so much bigger. And by the way it’s also a great way to avoid that groupthink thing you talked about earlier. Because if you’re really inspiring action, that group is not going to just settle on the first idea that came along. They’re going to expand on that idea, they’re going to make it bigger and better.”

WOW! So the interview is just under half way over, good stuff right? It just builds from here and so think about Mark’s concept of “Actionable Inspiration” because that’s exactly where we’re going to pick up in the next post.

Like this:

Recently at Pinocchio’s Bar and Grill in Reno, NV, I had the pleasure of having a candid, open, and honest discussion with Sean Osterhagen, a construction manager of his own business. I asked Sean to put the description of his business in his own words.

Sean: “Right now it’s just two of us, me and my partner Wayne, it’s called Power Mechanical Group. When times are slow I fill in for other contractors around town. We do industrial piping, commercial piping, boilers and cooling towers. My specialty is boiler and cooling tower is water treatment. We set up systems, test them, and ensure that they’re working right. We keep the equipment from fouling.”

Elton: “So, it sounds like you have to go out and get the work yourself? Maybe perhaps go through a bid process?”

Sean: “There’s a couple ways we get jobs. There’s a place down off of Wells Ave. where you can pick up jobs that have gone out for bid or by word of mouth. Word of mouth usually works out the best. We’re not aggressive marketers so mostly it comes from other people.”

Trust – Not surprisingly, we trust our friends more than we trust ads. Our friends, however, will tell it to us straight. They’ll tell us if the product is good, or bad, and as a result we’re more likely to believe their recommendation.

Better Targeting – Word of mouth is much more focused. People only tell you about things that they think are at least somewhat relevant to your interests.

The article goes on to talk about when word of mouth isn’t always better than advertising but in this instance, that part of the article is irrelevant for this interview. Word of mouth works for Sean and for him, that’s enough for one very specific reason as we’ll see later in the interview.

Elton: “So, when you say ‘aggressive marketer’, and it’s just the two of you, I’m assuming you have to wear a lot of different hats?”

Sean: “We’ve done a few flyers and we have a website that we get a job here or there from. The work is not particularly something we want to do but it’s something that pays. And yes, as far as wearing different hats goes we at one time had a couple guys working for us and at that time we weren’t so much in the field. But for right now, it’s book keeping, bidding, our own payroll, and doing the work itself.”

Elton: “So if there’s a problem with the client or contractor you have to stop ‘mid-action’ go out …”

Sean: “… yes, we do service also …”

Elton: “… so something like that?

Sean: “Yep, and it’s always an emergency.”

Elton: “Always an emergency? Like as in ‘I need this done yesterday!’?”

Sean: “Yep. When you’re dealing with water usually there’s a leak so mainly ‘we’re not getting any heat’ or ‘we’re not getting any cooling.’ But when it comes to the industrial you’re dealing with processes so they need them now! Cooling towers are the biggest ones, air-scrubbers, and when those go down, the plants down.”

Elton: “Can you tell me a little bit more about that word of mouth? How are you getting those people to continue to recommend you? What’s the end result that is driving them to be ambassadors for you, to pass you onto their friends?”

Sean: “Usually just working with them. Once we do a job with someone, they like the quality and the work we do. We’re honest and fair. Our prices are inline and the quality of the work is really good. And they like working with us once they get to know us. It’s hard to get that in an industrial environment because there’s so many different levels of management. Before you can do anything sometimes you have to talk to the owner, sometimes you have to talk to the accountant, sometimes you have to talk to the project super intendant or it could even be down to the ‘boiler-guy’ …”

Elton: “… or maybe all of the above?”

Sean: “Right! Or someone who has nothing to do with it who’s complaining about not having heat in the building and they want to know what’s going on. But once we get in there and start working with them, usually we’ll be back in there on that same job to work on their stuff again. And people move around in the field quite a bit. Say a plant manager, they move around a lot, I’ve found every couple years. And when they get to that new plant, they usually call us up for projects there as well.”

Elton: “They remember?”

Sean: “Yep. But that’s on the commercial/industrial side. When it comes to residential homes, there’s just a few people we work with. They call us because they have a house they’re going to do, or they have a tract they want to get going. They’ll give us first climb on it. Some of the bigger ones it’s hard to get in with them, they’re set on who they use, especially corporate builders. They are very difficult to deal with so we usually back off on those.”

Elton: “Can you tell me a little bit about consistency? Maybe they ask you something like this or maybe they don’t. Something along the lines of: ‘Hey man, why don’t you just give me a deal?’ Or ‘Hey man, I know you?’ Or even ‘Hey man, you’re my son?’”

Sean: “Ha! Yeah, people always ask for favors, they always want favors. And depending on what it is sometimes we say ‘yes’ and sometimes we say ‘no.’ But if it’s going to be a big cost, we need to get reimbursed for it. Every time we’re stacked up favors from people that ask for favors a lot, we get burned so usually they don’t happen too often. I have a few clients that I take extra special care of. And I know that I’m the only person that will touch their plumbing because they know that I’m going to do a good job. There’s other people that just want a deal. They want their bottom line lower, they want to be able to buy another 12-pack of beer at the end of the day. But eventually, it cuts into our pocket and we don’t usually see compensation for that. It’s a fine line. You talk to people, you deal with them and with some of them very quickly it comes right back to you by way of a back charge or something simple and we can give simple back to them. It works out well, there’s a relationship there. Other times, not-so-good, it’s just ‘gimmie gimmie gimmie’ and we just say ‘no thank you.’”

Elton: “Sounds like maybe it behooves you to stay consistent in how you treat everyone?”

Sean: “Well, there are definitely a few consistencies. First, the quality of our work is good. We make sure the product you receive is what you expected if not better. We want to customer to be happy and sometimes you just can’t make them happy. Second, we treat everyone the same. Going into a job, everyone is the same. Everyone gets the same price, the same mark-up, the same hourly rate. Even depending of if we get called out at ten-o’clock at night because someone needs something right then and it’s an emergency. Or, you might just be awake at that moment saying ‘I have a problem.’ We’ll take care of it in either instance, we take care of our customers.”

Elton: “Sounds like it really helps in the long run, with advertising you don’t have time for, this type of customer relationship becomes your advertising.”

Sean: “Word of mouth is a big one.”

Elton: “In wrapping things up here can you tell me a little about the enjoyment you get out of what you do, when it does go right?”

Sean: “It’s definitely not the high pay ….”

Elton: “… wait, what?”

Sean: “It’s not the buckets of cash that I’m spending at night.”

Elton: “Hahahahaha!”

Sean: “Seriously, for me it’s on a personal level. I like working with my hands, I like creating stuff and I like building things. I enjoy looking at the prints and creating what I see especially if it’s a good project. If it’s something interesting to do then I get enjoyment out of it. I like to use what’s out there to build that product and I like dealing with a customer that appreciates that. The inverse being a tract home where you don’t meet the customer, you’re just in there as part of another team, that’s kind of difficult. But when you meet the customer, you talk to people and you get the see their enjoyment out of what you do, that makes me feel good. And that’s worth the tradeoff …”

Elton: “… the end result?”

Sean: “Yea, when it’s done and they look at it and they’re ‘Wow, thank you!’”

Elton: “When they say: ‘That’s exactly what was in my head.’”

Sean: “Yeah, when you get to see that, that’s good. And sometimes you see that and sometimes you don’t. You get into some of these big projects you don’t ever meet the BIG guy who comes in and enjoys it. And it’s a little bit of a downer, it’s a bummer when that happens at the end. When you do a good job and you don’t hear what a good job you did. A pat-on-the back, a handshake.”

Elton: “It doesn’t take a lot, does it? A verbal perhaps?”

Sean: “Yes. And I’ll take a little bit of a cut in pay and give you a great deal on what you want as long as I know it’s going to be appreciated. It makes me feel good.”

Elton: “There is something definitely to be said about stuff like that.”

Sean: “There are different successes in the world and success isn’t always measured with money. You can’t drive success with money. There are other things that drive success … and sometimes it’s just a pat on the back, a ‘Thank you.’”

Elton: “Sounds like you’re getting a lot of those with those repeat customers?”

Without a doubt, those are legitimate reasons to say thank you. But, In a different post by Amy Lyman titled Say Thank You More Often she discusses what lessons can we take from saying thank you. Digging a little deeper, she says: “Why say thank you? Well, we do it partly because we’ve been taught from a young age that it is the right thing to do.” That to me says it all. Because, at our earliest introduction to the concept, we’re not taught that it breeds teamwork, that it increases quality of work, that our stress levels will go down, etc. We are taught to say thank you because it’s the right thing to do.

I want to thank Sean for his time and insight into a portion of Project Management that as managers or leaders we may not get exposed to a lot, those doing the physical work. I also want to thank Sean for his thoughts on how he, as a Project Manager effectively and consistently handles his own customers. For me, it’s was a strong reinforcement of how to properly treat people. So, go out and say thank you to someone on your team that deserves it and for whatever reason, you’ve overlooked that vital step with that individual. Why? Because it’s the right thing to do.

Note: This post is in continuation of the interviews I’m conducting with other project managers from a wide variety of industries and fields. See my 1st guest speaker post for a more detailed description.