Extra, extra

First off, for those who have asked for information on Coliseum tickets, there’s a link now set up to get you the information as it first comes out so check it out.

Also, two guys have signed minor league contracts with invites to big league camp. Rene Rivera and Terry Tiffee will be among those coming to Vero Beach looking to be this year’s Olmedo Saenz/Ramon Martinez/Larry Bigbie, etc. While I can’t say I know much about either of these two guys, the Dodgers have had tremendous success over the past several years finding non-roster invitees who wind up contributing at the big league level including Rudy Seanez, Aaron Sele, Olmedo, Ramon, Scott Erickson, Wilson Alvarez, Giovanni Carrara, Jose Lima and Kelly Wusch, among others.

Obviously some have had a greater and longer-lasting impact than others, but often times players like this are the least heralded and yet, can push a team over the top in three to five games during the season that make a huge difference.

I justed watched some video on Kuroda and was pretty impressed with his stuff. The one thing that scares me from what I saw (and granted its a small sample size) is his command or apparent lack there of. In the 2 videos I watched, he didn’t walk anybody but several hitters worked the count pretty well against him and he served up some pitches that certified big leaguers would probably hammer. You can’t get away with belt high fastballs down the pipe in the bigs, even if you’re throwing in the low to mid 90’s. That being said, he certainly looked a lot better than Tomko, Hendrickson and other yahoos that we used in the back of our rotation last year. Is 4/45 million worth it? I don’t know, he looks like an good #4 or 5 starter to me.

The only major concern I have with Kuroda is his age. Alot of the Asian starting pitchers don’t do well in America because the work load a starter deals with in the States is much greater than in Japan. We pitch on shorter days rest and the stress of the big leagues is like no where else. With him being 32 can his body hold up to that. Dice-K struggled with it and he’s only 26. I’m just worried that his body may be to old to handle starting in America. Other than that he looks good. What do you guys think about it?

AGE, Why is so many people are concerned with age? You hardly see the word EXPERIENCE. I really can’t stand the use of the words OLD GUYS. Remember somebody has to lead the way. Yes the Rockies & the D’Backs really did it to a lot of you guys. It was something that doesn’t always happen. It isn’t everyday that a youthful team out does the teams that are more experienced. Just because it happened with them doesn’t necessarally mean that’s the RULE. I’m all for our YOUTH MOVEMENT, but don’t all go perserk over a little experience, here & there.

I like what I’ve been hearing lately from Colletti. Here’s hoping its not all just positioning to get a better deal on a trade, though if it’s a trade that makes sense and only includes say 1 top prospect and a couple lesser ones for Cabrera, I’m all for it. Maybe Colletti isn’t as incompetent as he’s shown us so far to be.

Josh,
Would season ticket holders have any priority? Is the game a day game or a night game? Prefer a day game. Last time I went to the coliseum was for a soccer match in the evening between Real Madrid and Chivas. The place was packed and I forgot where I parked my car and spent a lot of time looking for it till the place was empty. Last time my brother convinces me to go to a soccer match where the seats were not pre-assigned, but to his defense, we did not know until we got there.

I’m not sure about your criticisms on Kuroda, cameron. The guys that end up going to the U.S. are the guys that already in the innings pitched leaders in Japan. DiceK pitched 200-ish innings over there. Same with Igawa and Kuroda. Are you arguing that Kuroda can’t pitch 200-ish innings or that the innings he’s already pitched over there leave him with not too many innings left in his arm at his age?

More U.S. pitchers pitch over 200 innings than in the Japanese leagues.

Japanese pitchers pitch more complete games than MLB pitchers.

U.S. pitchers start more games than Japanese pitchers.

It’s customary for Japanese starters to be throwing every day in between their starts, U.S. starting pitchers don’t do this.

The U.S. season is longer and more of a marathon (more & longer travel) than the Japanese league.

So with all that out on the table the most important thing to me is balancing the conditioning Japanese players are used to doing because of custom and they pitch fewer games so they can endure the marathon that is the MLB’s season.

I think the potential problem with japanese pitching talent lies more with how much of their initial success is from a delivery that MLB hitters haven’t been exposed to, but will quickly pick up on versus does the pitcher just flat out have good stuff.

Nomo’s tornado delivery kept him good for 2 years then he became more hittable. Innings weren’t a problem. Ishii was good (just slightly below average) for 150-175 innings and almost 30 starts. Who knows about Igawa…culture shock? DiceK is a gamer, I’m going to guess he pitches even better next year because he’s a competitor, but he was still good for 208 innings and his delivery isn’t way out there. Irabu had alcohol problems which probably account for his collapse after one decent year than anything else.

So after looking at all those guys, durability doesn’t seem to be that big a deal, but ******* after MLB hitters figure them out or failure for the player to adjust to the U.S. seems to be the downfall of many a japanese import.

BUT…I agree that any team should think very hard before giving ANY 32 year old pitcher japanese or american a 4 year deal.

Such bullshit saniyg the original is the best. The first guy to play Hamlet wasn’t the best. Hell the first person to play Juliet was a freaking GUY doesn’t make him the best. Idina is not the best hers is just one interpretation of the character.

I’m not critizing him at all. He has great stuff but the things you just mentioned are the reasons I think he may wear out easy. All the other guys you mentioned came over here at a young age I believe? You may have to check that for me. I have no doubt that he can log the innings, but can his body hold up to pitching every 5th day for a longer season? Dice-K is a gamer but his stats for a big league pitcher were slightly above average. Dice-K is young and his body will adapt to pitching every 5th day better than a 32 year old pitcher. Plus Dice-K has better stuff than Kuroda according to scouts. Don’t forget that in Japan they play in domes. Here he’ll have to play in the heat, which takes it’s on toll on the body. You can never have enough pitching. I just don’t know if he’s worth the money he wants.

gadams12 – you are right about Beimel, who is a much better example than Scott Erickson, who “[wound] up contributing at the big league level” mostly by sending 12 souvenirs to the OF bleachers and inflating the opposing batters’ statistics.

You can never have enough pitching. Kuroda would be a risk i’d be willing to take. You wouldn’t lose anything but money. A lot of contracts are coming off the books after this year so he would be very affordable.

I just saw this possible trade rumor/scenario… Johan for Bills and LaRoche. It seems even, and it’s what the Twins would be looking for in a trade (a good young MLB starter plus a 3B), but would create a bigger hole for us at 3B. Still, it would land us the best pitcher of the decade, with an extension for the next 5 years? We’d still have Kemp and Kershaw, but a hole at 3B. Any thoughts?

It’s what they need cameron… we’d probably be asked to add another prospect, but they need a 3B and they’d need a young starter. I really don’t think that deal is that out of the question… and please stop with the “unproven” adjective to describe players. Bills will be a 3rd year starter now, and is very well “proven”. LaRoche is a top 3B prospect. Why wouldn’t the Twins be interested in this?

I didn’t take your post as criticizing Kuroda. I’m more in agreement with you than I’m not, cameron. I’m far from sold on him myself. I just don’t believe a japanese guy that’s 32 is automatically or at significantly greater risk to tire/break down during an MLB season. I’d want him, but not for over 3 years or 7-9 mill annually. Spending any more and if he’s a bust it hurts alot (Jason Schmidt). We only need him to be at most the 4’th or 5’th starter, so starting 35 games if he’s the 5’th starter won’t even happen because of skips.

But heres the main reason why I don’t believe he necessarily breaks down or tires any more than the many American pitchers that tire and fade in the last few months just as DiceK did

(He’s exotic because he came from Japan and he’s a Red Sox player and tons of money was spent on him so he was under a magnifying glass and everything going on with him was media hyped to an extent).

Yes the Japanese season is shorter. However, Japanese starting pitchers throw every day as part of their conditioning program, even the days they aren’t starting. American pitchers don’t do that. That’s a lot of throwing. If a Japanese pitcher coming over consults with his new trainer here and tones down his traditional conditioning that they’re used to they should be fine. That’s just my opinion.

In Short

1. He won’t have to start more games than he did in Japan because he’ll be a 5th starter.

2. Lots of American starting pitchers young and old fade/tire just as DiceK in the dog days, so why is that different if the player is Japanese and fading just as other Americans are in the same league?

3. Japanese pitchers throw daily in between starts as part of their conditioning regimen and if trainers tone that down, their endurance should increase in an MLB schedule.

yes but still…Big names don’t win championships. Solid teams do. WE can win without santana, without cabrera and without A-Rod. The Yankees havent won it since they moved away from the “team” philosophy towards the name philosophy.

trading Bills for Santana…just doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t really improve our rotation all that much (maybe Im giving Bills a little too much credit but bear with me) and makes it much more expensive. Lets not go crazy over big names. Bills is a huge part of our rotation right now.

He has two more years on his contract for $24M. I’d rather take my chances with LaRoche, although Beltre can pick it and will only be 29 next season. I think he has peaked and settled in to what he will be, a good-fielding, low OBP 3B with decent power. That’s good, but not $12M good.

I agree on him not being worth the 12M, and I know he will never meet those number during his huge year. But I do think reuniting him with Mota and him be home will improve his numbers from Seattle. Manny had him looking to go the other way that year and that in turn improved his overall numbers.

I don’t think Beltre is even available according to the Seattle GM. That being said, he hit more HRS and drove in more runs than anyone on our team last year. He probably would do the same in 2008. Not saying he doesn’t have his problems… They’d probably ask for too much for him anyways. He’s not worth 12M, but is Furcal worth 13M, and Nomar 8M, and so on and so forth…?

Beltre, with the help of our good friend Boras, took the money and ran.

From Decemeber 16, 2004:

“We’re disappointed. It hurts,” Dodgers general manager Paul DePodesta said. “Obviously, we would have loved to have him back.

“I think all of us knew this certainly was a possibility. We feel like we stepped up and made a very competitive offer, actually tried to make it a compelling one by offering a sixth guaranteed year. Unfortunately for us, Adrian decided to go elsewhere.”

When asked if the Dodgers were given a final say in the matter, DePodesta said: “Not in so many words. They didn’t come back and say, ‘If you can do this, he’s coming back.'”

Um…I say thanks but no thanks on Beltre. I’ll take LaRoche over our prodigal son.

A source with knowledge of the Twins’ position said Wednesday that the club is asking the Dodgers for a package of three or four players from a pool of six: pitchers Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton, outfielders Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp, top pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw and third-base prospect Andy LaRoche. Whether the Twins would want three or four players depends on whom those players are.

You know, its a good thing (so far) the Marlins and Twins are too dumb to ask for a reasonable package of players for Cabrera/Santana. They are basically saving ned from himself by demanding what even he must consider an outrageous package.

I would rather go for Kuroda than give up three top quality younger guys for Santana, who is getting a lot of competitive bidding from several clubs, including the Yankees. We need to replace Schmidt in spite of management’s glowing expectations for his recovery, and Kuroda seems like a better bet than Schmidt was in retrospect. That won’t deplete our prospects either.

I have a Hall of Fame question for everyone. Do any of you think that either Mr. O’Malley or Mr. Bavasi will be voted into the hall next week? I also wonder why there hasn’t been a special award for Dr. Jobe in the Hall of Fame. Without his work, think about how many great players would have been done much earlier. With Tommy John being the only former Dodger on the players ballot it might be a while before we get another one in the hall (Garvey got robbed!!!). Thought this might provoke some discussion.

I feel we are at a point where NO NEWS is GOOD NEWS,unless it’s good news. What is good news?***Anything that happens that is what we as individuals are hoping for. And we are all hoping for different things. To me Schmidt is a question mark. Was(is) his problem temporary or ungoing? Reminds me, in a way, of Cesar Izturis, when he was on the DL and the Dodgers went out a got Furcal. I always liked “Little Cesar”, but it turned out alright, at least we got some power from Furcal, then again last season Furcal had that ankle problem and he’s another one we hope is O.K. after the winter’s rest. Wolf may be brought back for a shorter stint for less money. I think Kent is waiting to see how the off season works out. I think he’ll only come back if we look like we got a chance. I hope we got Raffy & Jeff back for another season, especially if we stick with kids,because I think their experience will still be needed. I don’t think there is any desire to move Pierre, unless it’s to LF and that’s only if we pickup up an experience CF and I hope that will not be necessary. I hope if that is the only move, that Torre does it even if it’s for Kemp. If they finally do make a deal for Cabrera, I’d hope they tell the Marlins****”No deal unless you take Pierre back and we’ll pay the remainder of the contract”****. I know that’s wishful thinking, but I personally feel the single most biggest problem we have RIGHT NOW is Pierre. I wish we can at least move him out of the outfield only because of his weak throwing arm because I’m sure we can deal with his lack of power. Right now I have no comment on Kuroda, and I hope we stay away from Santana.

ON THOSE HOF QUESTIONS, I like ***any other Dodger fan* would love to see O’Malley(I’m suprised he’s not in yet after he change my life and many others), Bavasi, one of our former great, pickpocketting GMs. It’s unexplainabe why Dr Job is still not in. I’m still hoping for Garvey, but what about Hodges? I wonder if Tommy John will go in as a Dodger. I hope so.

Kuroda picked a good year to be a free agent pitcher, that’s for sure. There’s so little pitching available that he can kinda ask for so many years at the going rate of around 10 mil/yr for an avg pitcher. I don’t know why he’d want such a long commitment given he may end up not liking america yada yada.

I wonder if somebody’s done a study comparing the rate of injury to japanese pitchers to the injury rate over here and if there’s a meaningful difference.

I’d only want Beltre back if he agreed to keep his heel/foot/whatever it was bruised or broken. Funny how he was only good hurt.

Last year was Garvey’s 15th time on the ballot (Tony Perez but no Garvey?), so the only way he can get in is through the Veteran’s Committee, which has been stingy, to say the least. The look on people’s faces when you tell them that Gil Hodges is not in the HOF says it all, he should be there, as should Newk and Maury Wills. There isn’t another Vet ballot until 2009, I think, so we have a while to “hurry up and wait”.

gadams — My immediate response to your idea is that it’s not a bad one.

Although Furcal has never played outfield in the majors, I have to assume he’s an upgrade over Pierre. Offensively, you’re trading Pierre for Hu/Abreu, which is probably not an upgrade at all. Parenthetically, I wouldn’t have that much problem with Pierre’s offnense if he batted low in the order and/or learned to take a walk occasionally.

Ultimately, I find the idea an interesting one with some merit. But, I really don’t see Furcal moving to the outfield, at least not willingly. Second, there are better options available. Most obviously the signing of Andruw Jones. Barring that, if Delwyn Young can show anything in spring training this year, I’d like to see him get a shot before Hu/Abreu.

If you had a few opportunities to see Delwyn hit last year, you know that kid really puts a hurtin’ on the ball!

i think with this combination we will at least see maybe around 70 homeruns. at least around 20 from both kemp and andre and around 15 from both repko and young. remember guys repko has good speed, very strong arm and decent power as long as he can stay healthy.

LEMANS: I like to see some more Dodger numbers retired. Only Gilliam has his number retired and is not in the hall of fame.****GADAMS: You are almost as bad as me, with Pierre at 1B****Furcal in the OF? If we trade Pierre, we should have KempCF EitherLF & either Repko, Young or… We got plenty of OFs That’s no problem, OUR WORRIES WOULD BE OVER.******* Don’t you remember, MARTINLONEYKEMP, what happen with Pierre batting lower, They pitched around anybody batting in front of him. Furcal, I think should bat 5th, thereby separating the 2 Leadoff type hitters presenting my BrOkeN BaTtINg order. It would be like 2 separate orders***** Before you guys start, get off my back. Happy Bithday Vin, and many, many more. I didn’t know he was the same age as Lasorda, thank you, EMMA.

i don’t see the idea happening in real life either. i also don’t think it should be the way the front office should want the offseason to go either, but it would be an out of the box way to deal with (assuming pierre is traded) missing out on obtaining a free agent outfielder and striking out on the trade front because of unreasonable trading partners.

I’m a few months younger than 10 years younger than Vin & Tommy, but I’ts amazing to remember those guys, Lasorda,pitching,(vagely) & Vinny on the air, in my pre teen-age years.******I was just listening to Steve Lyons on the telephone. I tell you, I’ll agree moving Pierre to left as the SECOND best thing that could happen, but I wish we wouldn’t have to bring in a FA to do it. How come Kemp isn’t ready to play CF? I bet if this happens we’d be playing everybody and his sister-law in LF******I think****next to nothing**** I’d go for a trade for Cabrera IF we don’t have to give up one of our outfieders in the deal. Did anybody see/read that post by some car salesman on Lasorda’s Blog.

CALIFORNIAAUTOREBUILDERS: Funny we must have both posted our outfield approxemately at the same time. You at 12:04 & I at 12:15 above. EthierLF***Kemp CF****Repko/YoungRF, was mind because I remember Ethier was the LF when Gonzo sat. I am glad to be in ageement with somebody****for a change****. As I said above. Who needs a FA outfieder? NOT US.

ewk i like that lineup. I have considered that before but never really thought of how it would be effective. Now i kind of see it. Furcal is the best person to do that with because he has pop and can drive in runs but he can also bunt to get on base and steal bases….also I’d be willing to be he’d have move steals and runs scored from that 5th spot. Pierre hitting second really hurt our offense last year and Furcals basestealing ability as well has his runs scored. Pierre had more Fielders Choices then anyone on the team so Furcal was forced out alot last year.

EWK & MAX POWER: I can’t believe it, I presented that lineup at lease twice this past summer. First I droped Pierre, then for obvious reasons I realized with Furcal’s power he was better off in the 5th slot. This has to be a record***3 guys agreeing with me in a matter of minutes****I must be paying attention better.

If Pierre is either gone or on the bench, I’ll at least feel the Dodgers are trying to put the best team on the field instead of accommodating egos and bad contracts.

I’m no Gonzo fan, but last season Gonzo, Kemp and Ethier were splitting time while Pierre played in 162 games. If the Dodgers want to look people in the eye this year without blinking, they better do something (maybe they’re trying to unload him right now?).

Probably since they hope to include him in a Johan Santana deal, the Red Sox won’t trade Coco Crisp until that situation is resolved. The Rangers liked Crisp, but are considering interesting alternatives: Rocco Baldelli, Jim Edmonds, and Juan Pierre. If only Ned Colletti could get someone to take his Pierre contract. Then he could sign another one almost equally as bad. Then he could trade Aaron Rowand a year from now and repeat the process.

pierreseastmeetswest:
I agree, there are a few more numbers that I would want to retire that are not HOF’ers. I’ve always thought it was odd that Garvey had his number retired by the Padres and not the Dodgers. How mant people actually think SD when they think of Garvey?

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