Your neighbor, a good neighbor, fellow gun enthusiast and all-around good guy finds himself in a tight spot and is forced to resort to deadly force to defend himself. The, DA for whatever reason, decides that on that day criminals from your town were not supposed to pay for their life of crime with their lives. It is a totally rightous shoot, no question, but we all know that is no defense against a legal battle.

What are you willing to do to help your neighbor? What if the same circumstances were applied to someone in your neighborhood you didn't know? Somebody in your town you don't know? Someone in the county?

Would you be willing to give up an afternoon of your life to go stand outside the DA's office and give them a piece of your mind? Would you write a letter, or many letters? Would you join a group of like-minded individuals and picket the courthouse during proceedings? Would you sit back and say, "Boy that sucks.", open another beer and carry on as usual, because this time it isn't you?

February 8th, 2009, 01:32 AM

bbqgrill

Tough one

This is like the mirror of do I get involved (use deadly force) if my life or the life of a loved one is not threatened.

In a life threatening situation some of us would come to the aid and defense of someone we do not know others would not; I think this is very similar. I have two very great friends who carry and I would without doubt come to their legal aid. Yet, as we never know the true facts from the media I would be not be so motivated to aid someone I do not know.

Sorry, I can't give a simple answer.

February 8th, 2009, 08:35 AM

SIXTO

Whatever it takes. Its only by circumstance that its my neighbor and not me on the hot seat.

February 8th, 2009, 08:37 AM

CEW58

I'd give my neighbor all the help I could.

February 8th, 2009, 08:52 AM

morintp

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

Whatever it takes. Its only by circumstance that its my neighbor and not me on the hot seat.

Very true. A couple hundred feet in the right direction and it's me as the defendent instead of my neighbor.

February 8th, 2009, 09:20 AM

bandit383

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

Whatever it takes. Its only by circumstance that its my neighbor and not me on the hot seat.

Would you donate money?? (how much?)...because that is what he/she would need to defend their right for SD. Standing outside the DA office, picketing, or even writing letters will fall on deaf ears unless there are thousands...and there won't be.

Rick

February 8th, 2009, 09:36 AM

bigiceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandit383

Would you donate money?? (how much?)...because that is what he/she would need to defend their right for SD. Standing outside the DA office, picketing, or even writing letters will fall on deaf ears unless there are thousands...and there won't be.

Rick

Money is too easy and although the person will need it I think we have come to believe that is all the involvement we have to have to make things change.

You are right there probably won't be thousands, and that is my real question. Why won't there be? I live in a medium sized city in a metropolitan area (Fort Worth, TX). There are hundreds of thousands of firearm enthusiasts within a 25 mile radius. If my DA decided to presecute someone there would be plenty of people who could come to their aid, but we wouldn't do it. I think there are two reasons; one, we don't hear about the aftermath; two, no organization.

How do we as honest citizens who believe our rights are inalienable, defend each other when those rights are infringed on an individual basis? How do we form the networks needed to exert political pressure when a good guy is being wrongly attacked by the legal system? The Freedom Riders go to military funerals to show support. They also found out that when there were caring individuals who were not directly involved in the proceedings that the liberal protesters would show more respect. They have some kind of network to let them know when and where to be. We need to develop something like this for our mutual aid.

February 8th, 2009, 09:43 AM

bandit383

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigiceman

Money is too easy and although the person will need it I think we have come to believe that is all the involvement we have to have to make things change.

You won't make things change unless you vote the right people into office...including the DA. Up until that time (and afterwards)...money talks.

Reminds me of the Border Patrol incident...lots of individual, congressional and media support, even lots of donations. Really didn't change the overall result except a commutation.

Rick

February 8th, 2009, 01:14 PM

bigiceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandit383

Reminds me of the Border Patrol incident...lots of individual, congressional and media support, even lots of donations. Really didn't change the overall result except a commutation.
Rick

There was a lot of popular involvement. I wrote to my representatives and the president and sent money to that defense fund. Honest question here, not a challenge; if there had not been so much popular and media support do you think they would have gotten even the commutation? Too little, too late as far as I am concerned, but better than sitting in prison for another ten years.

I agree with your assessment of having to get them out of office too. I think we, the honest people who are tired of seeing good people put in jail for defending their rights, could do better for ourselves by being active both when the incident is going on and at the ballot box. The more active we are during the incident the more likely we are to get other people's attention that would forget otherwise when the time to vote came around.

February 8th, 2009, 01:18 PM

pcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

Whatever it takes. Its only by circumstance that its my neighbor and not me on the hot seat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CEW58

I'd give my neighbor all the help I could.

+1. It's just luck it wasn't me. I'd stand by him, especially if it were a justified shoot.

February 8th, 2009, 01:26 PM

ccw9mm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigiceman

I think there are two reasons; one, we don't hear about the aftermath; two, no organization.

How do we as honest citizens who believe our rights are inalienable, defend each other when those rights are infringed on an individual basis?

The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network is attempting to do exactly that sort of thing. The organizers are creating a network of attorneys who are knowledgeable, skilled and successful in the area of criminal defense of justifiable self-defense cases. They're also a central organizing point for things like passing the hat for individual defense cases.

Letters, presence and even minor amounts of funds are window dressing, really, because the legal proceedings are going to run to conclusion no matter how many letters are written or how many times multiple people stand up to be heard. A few times, now, I've done all of these things, little benefit though it was in each case.

February 8th, 2009, 01:39 PM

SIXTO

Quote:

Originally Posted by bandit383

Would you donate money?? (how much?)...because that is what he/she would need to defend their right for SD. Standing outside the DA office, picketing, or even writing letters will fall on deaf ears unless there are thousands...and there won't be.

Rick

Sure, if that is what is needed. I'd donate what I could afford, then get a benefit event organized to raise more money as well as getting the word out about whats going on. More so than money, the public's opinion and knowledge of events plays a huge role in these types of scenarios.

Getting the word out for a good amount of public support will go a lot farther than cash alone. Once you have public support, the money will follow.

February 8th, 2009, 07:33 PM

bigiceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network is attempting to do exactly that sort of thing. The organizers are creating a network of attorneys who are knowledgeable, skilled and successful in the area of criminal defense of justifiable self-defense cases. They're also a central organizing point for things like passing the hat for individual defense cases.

Letters, presence and even minor amounts of funds are window dressing, really, because the legal proceedings are going to run to conclusion no matter how many letters are written or how many times multiple people stand up to be heard. A few times, now, I've done all of these things, little benefit though it was in each case.

I knew this group did lawyers, didn't know about the other stuff, thanks. I agree that the case, once in court will have to run its course. That is unless the DA gets the point that the case is too unpopular and basically withdraws it or drops the case. I don't know the legal term or if that is even possible.

I just see too many times where our legal system goes after citizens for crap. There was a case where a man's AR misfired and shot a three or four round burst. That man is in some serious legal hurt, and for what? For a malfunction! That is the kind of legal malpractice that the public should not allow. There are real criminals out there that need attention. There should have been 50,000 people in that man's office telling him what a waste of time he was expending and how they were going to remember what a crappy job he was doing prosecuting the people that were a real threat to society, him and every supervisor up to the mayor and governor.

February 8th, 2009, 11:14 PM

atctimmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

Whatever it takes. Its only by circumstance that its my neighbor and not me on the hot seat.

+1. I mean where is the question here? It seems obvious.

February 9th, 2009, 02:20 PM

farmerbyron

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigiceman

You are right there probably won't be thousands, and that is my real question. Why won't there be? I live in a medium sized city in a metropolitan area (Fort Worth, TX). There are hundreds of thousands of firearm enthusiasts within a 25 mile radius. If my DA decided to presecute someone there would be plenty of people who could come to their aid, but we wouldn't do it. I think there are two reasons; one, we don't hear about the aftermath; two, no organization.

What about that guy that shot two illegals about a year ago. I think his name was Joe Horn or something. Didn't that happen in/near your area. It seemed like he had a lot of popular support and charges were not filed against him.