MC Community: Where is it going?

Well, constructive criticism is never a bad thing, as long as it can be followed up with something positive. Criticism should NEVER be the end-all of a discussion of performance or otherwise.

We also made it a rule--written or unwritten--never to discuss a performer's personal life on these forums.

Same thing with each other: never let the negative accentuate where the positive should be used!

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I agree with these points totally, Kev. I always have disliked tabloid and celebrity gossip shows, and I would hate to see any Muppet discussion dissolve to that sort of thing. As a fan, the main things I am interested in is the individual's work.

I agree with these points totally, Kev. I always have disliked tabloid and celebrity gossip shows, and I would hate to see any Muppet discussion dissolve to that sort of thing. As a fan, the main things I am interested in is the individual's work.

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I hear Karen Prell sleeps in her Fraggle hat, that Steve Whitmire is afraid of soda pop and that Bill Barretta got third place in a cocktail shrimp eating contest! (But you didn't hear it from me.)

I really have nothing to add to the conversation here (for once)... I just wanted to take a second and jump around and thank Jamie for this:

frogboy4 said:

I think we're okay now. I go to the Holy Muppet Fan Trinity of the Muppet Mindset, Tough Pigs and the MuppetCast for content and mostly come here to post. Fansites have come and gone, but those three are going strong right now with wonderful people providing stellar content...and they all respond to the fans in a timely fashion.

I'm not in Fan Fiction as much as I used to be, but I hadn't ever noticed any cliques. I was thinking perhaps the issues pop up in Friends and Family, a place I avoid like the plague as it seems to be the most likely place for problems to arise. I actually don't see where these things happen.

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Maybe its just encourages the problem that we even have a "friends and family". I realise there will always be some general discussion, but F&F just encourages people to talk about themselves (if i had a dollar for every thread about computer problems, i'd be a gazillionaire) and in all honesty, do people really want a detailed account of what everyone else is doing on a daily basis. If anyone really is doing anything notable thats really worth a post then it could be a general discussion one, or (and i know this is going out on a limb here) the mods could ask for everyone to cut off their actual friends and families. Looking at the amount of views all the randomness seems to take up a chunk of bandwidth that could be better used sorting out the main site.

I just don't see why we can't all get along equally, but I suppose that's the way of the world.

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Yeah, there's a LOT of hypocracy with people being rude and arrogant towards others for no reason, thus bringing it all on themselves, then when these others try to put them in their place, they start crying and plead for sympathy acting like they're the ones being victimized, when again, they bring it on themselves with their own arrogance. There's a lot of that going around, though, I guess anybody out there would like to gain sympathy from others from time to time, even if they do it apathetically, but still...

Sometimes, social skills can be difficult to acquire, but it doesn't hurt to work on them when you lack them.

I hope that post isn't directed at anyone on MC, Snowthy. Plenty of reason to believe it may be, and if so that's baiting and we don't want that. Time to let bygones be bygones and move forward. Continuing down the same road leads one nowhere.

The way I feel about MC is that we are all one big somewhat happy family. Some will come and some will go, but for the most part we all know our place in this family. I think for any good family to work that there sometimes needs to be problems, or arugments. We are all only human in here, and sometimes i think it is easy to forget that. I want to just come out ans say that I respect everyone that comes on this forum, and share there love for The Muppets, Jim Henson, and or Puppetery. Each membere has a whole lot of talent, and I think when we combine that talent we get great things like The MuppetCast, and the MuppetMindset.
What I would really like to see is our Puppet group grow, I sadly feel that the wonderful art of puppets is slowly dying. That would be one of my Goals for this year, but I have such a full plate as it is I am going to be doing good to get everything done.
Anyways the point is, I love and respect everyone here at MC, and I would hope that we all would and could show everyone else that same respect.

I have to be perfectly honest... I don't even LIKE MC anymore... I really don't, because this place keeps continuing to go to heck in a handbasket. Let's face it: nothing's ever going to change for the better around here, and while some say "Things can only get worse before they get better", after all this time, I don't think things are ever going to get better around here.

Hostility around here has seen a bit of an explosion lately, and although this has been a recurring problem here from time to time, and I think our very own Beau and Prawnie have pointed it out before, topics are becoming less and less civil and more and more hostile; the community atmosphere continues to disappear, and as I've said before, I know quite a few once-familiar faces around here who have mentioned that this is pretty much the reason they don't come to MC anymore: it's gone from being a community to being "high school". The more I think about it, I think this is one reason why MC has gone to pot lately, there are so many wonderful members of this community who used to brighten up this place with their very presence, who have been here for years, and most of them are pretty much gone because of the state-of-affairs here, and as such, that little bit of sparkle that helped shape MC into what it was has gone as well.

As the people of MC, this is our forum, and as such, only we have the power to "restore order" as it were, but it seems like a large number don't even want to try; even remembering here not too long ago where people began looking to have more "controversial" discussions, because they felt things were too low-key around here. Our lovable Kev was apprehensive about such discussions because of how easily they tend to get heated and trouble usually ensues, though in one particular case, things actually didn't reach a heated level, so he let the discussion be. Anymore however, things do get heated, and trouble does begin brewing, and this where a lot of our "famous drama" comes from (and yes, that's what MC has become famous for anymore, the drama): in such discussions, there's two sides against each other - the side where people are overly defensive and take general comments and opinions too personally and whine about it, and the side where people kind of egg it on with sarcasm or being facetious.

That said, on a personal note, almost every other forum I've been a part of have had these very same problems, though unlike MC, it was actually encouraged at these other forums, and as a result, I somehow always found myself becoming the "village idiot", and now, it seems like I've become the village idiot again, and at the very place I used to consider a cyber-home-away-from-home for seven (more particularly the past five) years; over the past few months, I've seen people come crawling out of the woodwork to have it out with me, either in completely direct calling out, or oh-so-try-to-be-subtle-so-people-will-know-who-it-is-without-dropping-names-hint-hint-hint.

One thing I'm not proud of, to say the least, is that looking back on this thread in it's entirety, is that I'm painting a poor picture of myself, because more recent parts of this thread, I'm really the only one speaking out about the nature of the community anymore; it looks like I just keep coming back to this thread to whine, but this is not the case - maybe perhaps MC still holds some kind of spot inside me that I'm the only one who speaks out about the community, while others simply don't want to say anything, in hopes that things may go back to the way they were without making any mention of it, I don't know. Again, I know quite a few who would probably be doing the same thing I'm doing, but because of such drama, they just don't show themselves here at all anymore.

Maybe I'm kind of in the same category, maybe that's why I'm still here, albiet all the drama, maybe there's a part of me dangling by a piece of dental floss tied around a broken mast, still hoping that our community may still return, but I don't see how, because for the past two years, past few months in particular, just about anytime it would seem the community may be returning, there's an immediate about-face, and things continue to go even further south than they were the previous time.

I'm kinda disappointed in the way people who used to talk to me even on IM don't really do so anymore. And even when it's a post directly trying to communicate to someone, it gets ignored for no reason given. I'm happy, though, for the people I can talk to, but I count the number of those people one one hand -- without using all my fingers.

I've been able to have more interactions this time around guesting in Hensonville, I just get the impression that people wait 'til I leave in order to "really" play, as though I'm just being humored so I'll move on and do something else. I was thinking about moving back as a regular, but it'll never work.

I do value all the positive interactions I have with people. But I noticed that when I informed some people that I was kind of insulted that people only seemed to talk to me to request things, those I thought would step up and have real conversations just seemed to drop talking to me outside of reviews altogether. If it weren't for the one or two people I also talk to on Facebook, I'd really have no one here, which is a shame, because it didn't start out that way.

Personally, I'm left here mainly for my fics. I get more interest out of them here than I did on fanfiction.net.

While I'm not ready to leave ... well ... I can tell a lot of people have moved on. I don't know a lot about any drama though(how could I, when maybe two people at most talk to me outside of fic reviews). I started out on Pokemon forums, but it became one big flame war after another, and the one forum that I started out on and still technically exists is only lacking flame wars because it's almost dead. That one really hurt because there was hardly any back-biting like there was on other forums, and I grew to enjoy some respectable friendships there. I came here looking for the exact same thing (or something that'd pass as it), and while I wouldn't say I came up lacking, I kind of feel like Boober: shy, but still lonely when trying to open up because others don't exactly mesh with what you see as fun.

I'm still motivated to stay for now. Other than Beliefnet, this is where I hang out the most. I'm not going to change that unless something extremely unpleasant happens.

Snowthy... send me an email, man. I don't want to get into all of this on here again, for obvious reasons, so email me and we'll chit chat. Needless to say, I agree with you and see exactly where you're coming from here.

Snowthy... send me an email, man. I don't want to get into all of this on here again, for obvious reasons, so email me and we'll chit chat. Needless to say, I agree with you and see exactly where you're coming from here.

I've been a member of MC for over a decade now and I just can't see much marked change over the past several years. It's all the same to me. And of course there was much going on in the couple of years before my arrival here too. This forum is actually a lot calmer than it was in the Delphi days and the first couple years on the vBulletin layout. I might not notice all the bumps along the way like others do.

I have been disappointed with a lack of updates on the main site and loss of our community spirit in content and hope that will change in the future. There are more solid alternatives to MC that are being explored by members too. The Muppet Mindset has greatly filled my need for Muppety content and connection missing here in recent years.

Tough Pigs originally grew out of the feeling of censorship and isolation from members who felt MC had become a place for those who adhered to the tenants of one particular social viewpoint. I can’t say whether or not that was warranted, but I have committed to insuring that all social points of view and the members who hold them are equally respected – none greater than the other. That’s tricky and like most communities, we all individually fall short from time to time.

MC is a place for Christians, Jews, gays, straights, Agnostics, Atheists and all sorts of people come together to discuss their love of Muppets. This forum can’t exist without every individual and that should always be respected. We’re all important here and I’d be out of here in a heartbeat if there were some sort of wink and nod at one particular group over the others. We’re all Kermit lovers and Henson dreamers here.

MC is a place for Christians, Jews, gays, straights, Agnostics, Atheists and all sorts of people come together to discuss their love of Muppets. This forum can’t exist without every individual and that should always be respected. We’re all important here and I’d be out of here in a heartbeat if there were some sort of wink and nod at one particular group over the others. We’re all Kermit lovers and Henson dreamers here.

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Right on, Jamie! That's exactly how I feel too. My annoyances with MC have all been addressed numerous times in the past, and they all led to The Muppet Mindset, so I guess it was all for the best. I just wish we COULD provide and help the site, but, alas, that seems to be a pipe dream. (And not the good kind, like at NBC.)

I've been a member of MC for over a decade now and I just can't see much marked change over the past several years. It's all the same to me. And of course there was much going on in the couple of years before my arrival here too. This forum is actually a lot calmer than it was in the Delphi days and the first couple years on the vBulletin layout. I might not notice all the bumps along the way like others do.

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I was thinking exactly the same thing - theres not many blatantly obvious problems here at all that are actually noticeable to the average user. I completely understand Snowth and others have issues with certain areas and certain people (or groups) and respect that - i just find a lot of that goes on in the general areas and games rather than being a problem on the forum overall, and i tend to stay away from those areas as they are very "teeny" and "kliquey". I think maybe what this place needs is more focus on real Muppet discussion, which is what we all really should be here for.

I think one way to do that would be to encourage users to write, draw and do Muppety things to be included on the site, or even start discussion topics themselves to increase the actual Muppety debate .. but i guess and respect that the site belongs to people who may not want that right now and thats upto them. Although from their point of view, i don't see how it can be a negative, it can only help attract people to the site and keep it more current.

If certain people have issues with other members baiting them and its been going on for a long time obviously thats an issue for the mods to sort out, and to find out the whole story from both sides and do something about it. Not that they shoud have to, but then the internet allows people to say what they like from behind a keyboard and frequently they do, wayyy too much, and thats why we need mods - those cases where people have tried to sort things themselves and it still carries on.