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He said that if they reopen the Castle Grayskull Preorder the price would probably go up
and that we might not see CG at NYTF if the prototype isnt finished in time

CB said Grayskull is almost done on Facebook... now, that doesn't mean that it'll necessarily be in shape for NYTF, necessarily, but it's a good sign.

---

Also, guys... do we really have to go through this AGAIN.

All he is saying is what he's always been saying. If there's not enough sales... then the line goes bye bye. This is NOT NEW. This is the case for every single thing ever made by a manufacturer. There's so much to look forward too. Castle Grayskull. New Reveals. Rumors of some more Filmation characters. Maybe some more awesome surprises we don't even know about yet.

The sub was supposed to be for folks like me who love the idea of getting a broad range of characters, from vintage heavyweights to Fighting Foe Men. It was to be a service for us, making it easier to get the figures while the folks who didn't want everything picked and chose. And when they did it that way, the line thrived because it had a solid base but could also grow as new folks came in to sample the figures. Now you can jump on once a year, and you have to commit hundreds of dollars while knowing maybe a fourth of what you will be getting.

Mattel took something that was supposed to be a convenience for collectors, and turned it into bludgeon with their "my way or the highway" marketing strategy. Some folks rightly complain that to get what they want, they have no choice but to buy a bunch of things they don't or take a chance on the 15th of each month and hope that Mattel actually made enough to sell that day.

That is kind of my opinion as well. I think if the subscription ends up dying, we'll at least get a pre-order system to finish off the most popular characters.

Toy Fair and what ever reveals we get before SDCC are going to have a big effect on the possibility of the line continuing. Mattel needs to bring their A+++++ game to generate some real excitement for the line. THere needs to be at elast a couple of heavy hitter vintage MOTU figures, and a heavy hitter from POP (Glimmer, Casta or Angella would definitely bring the morale of the She-Ra fans up a few notches). Horde Troopers are a must; the demand for those has been strong form day one, and showing them would definitely get fans excited. And that's the thing that has to happen here if there is going to be a 2014: get fans excited over the product offered.

DR is still going to be DR; Mattycollector is still going to be the worst e-tailer site on the web, and they will continue to make promises they wind up not keeping. with the past several years as evidence, that is a close to an incontrovertible fact as you're going to get with this line. Trying to get these figures either by sub or day of sales is always going to be a challenge, if not a nightmare, as it always has been. The thing that kept collectors coming back to the line was that the figures were worth putting up with the ridiculous nonsense they had to put up with. Even folks like me who finally had to cut any ties with Matty are still supporting the line through the secondary market because we still love the figures. It's obvious Mattel can do nothing to make the Matty site itself anything but a sad relic of a website hearkening back to the beginnings of the internet; they can, however, control what they offer and how it is produced. Mattel, show us some really great figures that will get us excited, and go for at least a few months without having a major QC problem, and I think there is a chance that 2014 might actually happen. Show folks a bunch of disappointing stuff and continue with business as usual (blastic, switched parts, broken joints, etc), and you have only yourselves to blame if there is no 2014 for the line.

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

Toy Fair and what ever reveals we get before SDCC are going to have a big effect on the possibility of the line continuing. Mattel needs to bring their A+++++ game to generate some real excitement for the line. THere needs to be at elast a couple of heavy hitter vintage MOTU figures, and a heavy hitter from POP (Glimmer, Casta or Angella would definitely bring the morale of the She-Ra fans up a few notches). Horde Troopers are a must; the demand for those has been strong form day one, and showing them would definitely get fans excited. And that's the thing that has to happen here if there is going to be a 2014: get fans excited over the product offered.

DR is still going to be DR; Mattycollector is still going to be the worst e-tailer site on the web, and they will continue to make promises they wind up not keeping. with the past several years as evidence, that is a close to an incontrovertible fact as you're going to get with this line. Trying to get these figures either by sub or day of sales is always going to be a challenge, if not a nightmare, as it always has been. The thing that kept collectors coming back to the line was that the figures were worth putting up with the ridiculous nonsense they had to put up with. Even folks like me who finally had to cut any ties with Matty are still supporting the line through the secondary market because we still love the figures. It's obvious Mattel can do nothing to make the Matty site itself anything but a sad relic of a website hearkening back to the beginnings of the internet; they can, however, control what they offer and how it is produced. Mattel, show us some really great figures that will get us excited, and go for at least a few months without having a major QC problem, and I think there is a chance that 2014 might actually happen. Show folks a bunch of disappointing stuff and continue with business as usual (blastic, switched parts, broken joints, etc), and you have only yourselves to blame if there is no 2014 for the line.

I think MOTUC has to save up some MAJOR attractions for 2014 or people won't subscribe for next year. This is probably why they are blowing through 2013's reveals, so that they can show the fans more than just 3 figures for 2014 and the subscription figure.

Yep... At the end of the road they would have had a full set of classics. Though instead of paying about $20 for the ones they wanted... they paid closer to $100 a piece so that they could have another 4 figures they never would have bought willing.

YAY comradarie....

Yes, but if the other figures didn't get made, so that you could get the 4 you wanted, you would have probably paid much more for the 4 you wanted anyways. His point is, you end up paying the same amount per figure, but now you have all those extras you don't want that you can sell off and recover some of your money, therefore effectively lowering the overall cost you pay per figure for those that you did want. This is all just a guess, so in very basic terms (I know shipping is definitely a factor) assume this:

In the first scenario you have 8 figures you didnt want. You sell them off at $20/figure, so you get $160 back. Now in the first scenario, you spent $140 for the 4 figures you wanted, which is less than if you just got the 4 figures alone. Once again, I realize this is a lot of speculation, but toy companies do this constantly. Case in point is Star Wars. They produce the Saga Legends or Movie Heroes line each year. These are straight repacks most of the time. They obviously sell. This helps to keep the Vintage line, which have 10-15 points of articulation and multiple paint aps, at $10/figure, otherwise the figures would cost much more. It seems to make sense to me, in my head, so hopefully I put it down in an understandable manner.

I think MOTUC has to save up some MAJOR attractions for 2014 or people won't subscribe for next year. This is probably why they are blowing through 2013's reveals, so that they can show the fans more than just 3 figures for 2014 and the subscription figure.

"Buy the sub or you won't complete ____________."

I think it'd be VERY smart for them to try to show at least half the year for 2014, and load it up with some very fan-demanded characters while still showing a good variety from various sub-groups.

I think MOTUC has to save up some MAJOR attractions for 2014 or people won't subscribe for next year. This is probably why they are blowing through 2013's reveals, so that they can show the fans more than just 3 figures for 2014 and the subscription figure.

"Buy the sub or you won't complete ____________."

Yeah, that would need to be the plan, but what aces do they really have left?

I think people (because we're fans) tend to overestimate the demand for most of the remaining characters.

I think it'd be VERY smart for them to try to show at least half the year for 2014, and load it up with some very fan-demanded characters while still showing a good variety from various sub-groups.

Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man

Yeah, that would need to be the plan, but what aces do they really have left?

I think people (because we're fans) tend to overestimate the demand for most of the remaining characters.

I think it is going to take more than just what is remaining to keep the line viable. One thing they need to look at is figuring out some way to revisit the heavy hitters that have already been done. One way to do that is to do a 2.0 version (similar to Bubble Power She-Ra) of these figures, not a variant but a 2.0 version. Then, make this one of the monthly slots. One great example would be a 2.0 Teela, as Mattel won't go back into production on her (due to lack of sales), and she does need some improvements done that would take up an SKU any way such as the twist waist. This is a way to get her out there with the guranteed sales of the sub. Give at least two slots in 2014 to such figures and maybe it will help.

Yeah, that would need to be the plan, but what aces do they really have left?

I think people (because we're fans) tend to overestimate the demand for most of the remaining characters.

I would agree with this. Shoot I've had friends see my MOTUC collection and only recognize characters from the first 3-4 waves of the vintage MOTU. These are people that loved the cartoon and had lots of the figures when they were younger. There is a lot of explaining on who half the figures I have are. I think now that we've got most of the main MOTU heavy hitters fans are starting to want different things. Some only want only the remaining MOTU figures. Some want PoP, some want NA. Some want them all. Early on in the line everyone wanted characters like Man-at-arms and Trap Jaw. I think we're running out of those characters. Sure a lot of people want Glimmer, but as many that wanted someone like Fisto?

Personally I want almost everyone and hope things keep going until we can get them all. Hopefully 2014 is an 'all star year' and helps fill in holes but it does leave me concerned who would be left for 2015.

Right or wrong, buying a sub tells Mattel you want more MOTUC figures. Not buying does tells them you don't. Don't let MOTUC end early because you might not like their marketing strategy! Plus polls show you won't regret subbing!

But look out!! All the fans dying for Meteorbs or Dree-Elle or Spinwit will claim the line can only last while unreleased characters are made.

I'm not so sure as long as you keep it to one or two monthly slots. Anyhow, somehow Mattel needs to reinvigorate the line or it will end. Another thing that Mattel is doing is oversaturating the line. It is becoming too much with all the increased shipping. This will also kill the line. We have talks now that an additional group of sub figures may be offered outside the sub later this year, combined with an overly expensive Castle Grayskull and it is too much. People cannot stay on top of that with prices the way they are. We need to go back to one item per month.

Another thing that Mattel is doing is oversaturating the line. It is becoming too much with all the increased shipping. This will also kill the line. We have talks now that an additional group of sub figures may be offered outside the sub later this year, combined with an overly expensive Castle Grayskull and it is too much. People cannot stay on top of that with prices the way they are. We need to go back to one item per month.

Truer words were never spoken.

"A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked."

Toy Fair and what ever reveals we get before SDCC are going to have a big effect on the possibility of the line continuing. Mattel needs to bring their A+++++ game to generate some real excitement for the line.

If I may; Mattel always brings its A+++++ game where their product is concerned. In fact their figures are some of my most highly prized, and I include this sentiment as applicable across multiple offerings (DCUC, Watchmen, MOTUC, etc.). However, the thing that they are associated with that isn't A+++++ game is their customer service through DR (as you fervently mention and thoroughly discuss, Scott). That's not something that will have anything to do with Toy Fair though, and Scott can make as many empty promises as he wants ("I swear, things are going to get soooooooo much better!"), but DR has continually disappointed and I have no doubts they won't change that behavior for the foreseeable future. But again, I have absolute and supreme confidence that Mattel's 2013 TF offerings will be solid A+++++ game material.

Originally Posted by csc0709

Another thing that Mattel is doing is oversaturating the line. It is becoming too much with all the increased shipping.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but how does increased shipping equal over saturation? Perhaps you mixed metaphors in comparing apples to oranges? I get what you're saying, but one does not equal the other. Also, I don't agree that the line is over saturated. 1-2 figures per month for a single line is hardly over saturation. If you figure a normal Wave of figures at retail is easily 4-5, with Waves coming roughly once per quarter, the saturation is relatively the same.

And as to shipping. As TG says; things cost what they cost to ship. Take issue with that all you want, but in the end an online only line is going to have costs that aren't comfortable at times.

I think it'd be VERY smart for them to try to show at least half the year for 2014, and load it up with some very fan-demanded characters while still showing a good variety from various sub-groups.

I haven't really seen it talked about here - surprisingly - but Scott mentioned a few times last month about ship finally showing us a "subject to change" list of the current roadma (he implied at least through this year).

I agree, they need to show at least the first half of the sub next year, and it better be all heavy hitters. I have a string feeling Horde Troopers will be shown (although people kee expecting a TF announce for them, Scott said awhile back during guessing games it was not them for this "demanded" pack), Scorpia or Madame Razz/Broom (which ever one does not end up coming this year, as I am pretty sure we will see Scorpia before the end of this current sub). I'd bet Two-bad or another similar figure. And most definitely one of the three movie characters they can make (though to be honest I think showing Horde Troopers and a movie 3-pack as the first two quarters "large" items would be an incredible slam dunk).

It better all be major characters from now in. I'm sorry, I think as a whole most people are over the Vykrons and the Demomans of the line. It's time to get this party STARTED!

Btw, I still hold my prediction of Despera as sub-exclusive. A very wise and pretty perfect choice.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but how does increased shipping equal over saturation? Perhaps you mixed metaphors in comparing apples to oranges? I get what you're saying, but one does not equal the other. Also, I don't agree that the line is over saturated. 1-2 figures per month for a single line is hardly over saturation. If you figure a normal Wave of figures at retail is easily 4-5, with Waves coming roughly once per quarter, the saturation is relatively the same.

And as to shipping. As TG says; things cost what they cost to ship. Take issue with that all you want, but in the end an online only line is going to have costs that aren't comfortable at times.

You are missing something as part of that post to which you are referring went with another post a couple of posts back. It is a fact that shipping has increased substantially this year. We have Castle Grayskull also coming this year and now there is talk of additional non-sub items (perhaps a whole other subsription to get more characters out) coming this year. It has even been hinted that a bunch of two packs will be coming out. I'm sorry, but with the increases in figure costs plus shipping price increases, that will be a lot to handle every month with a Castle Grayskull. We are now talking a line that was originally just supposed to be one figure per month at $20.00 with about $8.70 shipping and no tax - to a month where a standard figure costs $25.00 plus tax with shipping on that figure going up to as high as $14 dollars (which is more than a third of the cost of the figure. Note that all pricing cited is for domestic distribution vs international). If you have a two pack on top of that (now $50 instead of $40), it gets expensive quickly (not to mention folks who have multiple subs). For most people's budgets that is a lot to spend monthly on a hobby (and toys at that). I would bet there are far fewer people who can keep affording that much product per month than can, and that will eventually take a toll on overall subscription numbers (we are barely scraping by as is). That is oversaturation in my opinion. The line will not be able to sustain itself like that, especially with dwindling major characters to release. Comparing this to waves at retail is not the same either. At least at retail, yes things come out in waves, but the consumer can go buy leisurely as there is usually enough product at retail numbers to buy at convenience. This is a small, highly collectible line with limited numbers that has product every month of the year that relies on a subscription model with a minimum number to go into production. I hope that is now clearer for you!

If I may; Mattel always brings its A+++++ game where their product is concerned. In fact their figures are some of my most highly prized, and I include this sentiment as applicable across multiple offerings (DCUC, Watchmen, MOTUC, etc.). However, the thing that they are associated with that isn't A+++++ game is their customer service through DR (as you fervently mention and thoroughly discuss, Scott). That's not something that will have anything to do with Toy Fair though, and Scott can make as many empty promises as he wants ("I swear, things are going to get soooooooo much better!"), but DR has continually disappointed and I have no doubts they won't change that behavior for the foreseeable future. But again, I have absolute and supreme confidence that Mattel's 2013 TF offerings will be solid A+++++ game material.

As far as offerings go, I'm pretty much with you. Aside from Laserlot and Vykron, Mattel hasn't shown me anything since the line started I didn't instantly want. I was thrilled to get the Star Sisters in one shot, and am equally glad to get the model pilots/FFM pack this year. Problem is a lot of folks weren't impressed by either of these, or some of the other stuff we've been shown the past few times. You and I are the die-hards the sub was originally created for, but some folks we need for the line to continue are a little less easily pleased. Of course, the initial offering versus the final product sometimes falls short thanks to QC problems. I've got very few things in my whole collection that measure up to Granamyr, but the thrill of getting him was dulled by having to spend 10 minutes heating his hip to get one of the legs to snap into place.

And as to shipping. As TG says; things cost what they cost to ship. Take issue with that all you want, but in the end an online only line is going to have costs that aren't comfortable at times.

But Matty's shipping is higher than virtually anyplace I have dealt with. I get my figures from Big Bad, and, with the pile of loot feature last year, I would have come out about even with what I would have paid at Matty for them, even though each figure was more, if i hadn't had to snag Weaver off e-bay. When you pay more and get worse, slower service than you do anyplace else on the web, you have to start questioning why.

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

I think it is going to take more than just what is remaining to keep the line viable. One thing they need to look at is figuring out some way to revisit the heavy hitters that have already been done. One way to do that is to do a 2.0 version (similar to Bubble Power She-Ra) of these figures, not a variant but a 2.0 version. Then, make this one of the monthly slots. One great example would be a 2.0 Teela, as Mattel won't go back into production on her (due to lack of sales), and she does need some improvements done that would take up an SKU any way such as the twist waist. This is a way to get her out there with the guranteed sales of the sub. Give at least two slots in 2014 to such figures and maybe it will help.

Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man

I'd be all for legitimate "2.0" versions that truly improve and give us something different.

King Hiss, Teela, Roboto . . . bunch of great candidates for that treatment.

But look out!! All the fans dying for Meteorbs or Dree-Elle or Spinwit will claim the line can only last while unreleased characters are made.

I think revisiting major characters is a great way for new fans to catch up as well as older fans to get a superior or alternate new version of a character. Classicized 200X/MYP or Filmation variants could work, but I would do this when MOTUC has almost finished with all of the major old characters. Some fans see Filmation as gospel -- imagine if they could get a Filmation He-Man, Teela or Hordak? Or a She-Ra "Sword to __________" weapons pak?

Mattel should do a poll OR we should make a dedicate thread to explore the idea.

I don't want a bunch of variants. I'm happy with most of what he have, though I want a few key variants like TC Skeletor, Flying Fists He-Man, NA Skeletor, and perhaps FIlmation Hordak.

We've exhausted all of the major characters. Before the line could revisit them, Classics has to produce the remaining major cast members.

The occasional new version of a big name character could re-energize the brand once the line gets to the 1988 D-listers. I'm not talking just variants or mini-comic recolors, but improved versions of He-Man (with new sculpted head and sword aloft hand or Teela with no bobblehead and turning waist. A Sorceress with BETTER wing engineering. Faker with two new sculpted heads and Faker versions of Flying Fists and Thunder Punch armor or weapons. Superior stuff that fans WILL want to get to replace their old versions.

Here are other ideas:
200X Prince Adam
Stratos with no glue on his wings, monkey feet and his 200X backpack
Sy-Klone in 200X colors, has shoulder rings and his Anwat Gar helmet
Buzz-Off with 200X head and his Filmation lance.
Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn
Captain Randor
WMD Roboto with his MYP guns
Filmation Hordak and Imp
Filmation He-Man with dark tan, sword aloft hand, Filmation sword and removable scabbard on his back

We've exhausted all of the major characters. Before the line could revisit them, Classics has to produce the remaining major cast members.

The occasional new version of a big name character could re-energize the brand once the line gets to the 1988 D-listers. I'm not talking just variants or mini-comic recolors, but improved versions of He-Man (with new sculpted head and sword aloft hand or Teela with no bobblehead and turning waist. A Sorceress with BETTER wing engineering. Faker with two new sculpted heads and Faker versions of Flying Fists and Thunder Punch armor or weapons. Superior stuff that fans WILL want to get to replace their old versions.

Here are other ideas:
200X Prince Adam
Stratos with no glue on his wings, monkey feet and his 200X backpack
Sy-Klone in 200X colors, has shoulder rings and his Anwat Gar helmet
Buzz-Off with 200X head and his Filmation lance.
Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn
Captain Randor
WMD Roboto with his MYP guns
Filmation Hordak and Imp
Filmation He-Man with dark tan, sword aloft hand, Filmation sword and removable scabbard on his back

Absolutely.

And they could kill several birds with one stone -

...a Teela 2.0 with a Filmation and a 200x head (I know I'd have to buy at least two in that case).

....Filmation Hordak with Buzz Saw attachment.

....A Shower Power Catra that when mix-matched with the original version can also make a "vintage toy Catra".

And I have been DYING to see what 4H could come up with for Starburst She-ra - I didn't really care for BP She-ra in vintage, but they knocked my socks off with the MOTUC version. And I loved SB She-ra as a kid, I know they'd update her amazingly.

The one thing that saddens me the most is the loss of the variant slot - while I certainly didn't love all of them, I really like how they open up alternate looks and mix and match possibilities of the major characters. I have six or seven different She-ra's and Teelas already built - and I'd love to add more variations. That's another reason these would be smart - you know if they come with cleverly done parts that can be shared among other figures to build other versions, not to mention if they come with two heads - many of us would be buying far more than just one, like I do with most monthly figures.

Mattel should do a poll OR we should make a dedicate thread to explore the idea.

To be honest, I don't think polls do any good. All the diehard fans for (fill in the blank D-lister) would come out of the woodwork to push for their faves, while the general MOTUC buyer doesn't even know the poll existed in the first place.

For me, it only stands to reason that a new and improved signature He-Man with added value in extra accessories or articulation or new sculpting would outsell literally dozens of other figures.

The one thing that saddens me the most is the loss of the variant slot - while I certainly didn't love all of them, I really like how they open up alternate looks and mix and match possibilities of the major characters. I have six or seven different She-ra's and Teelas already built - and I'd love to add more variations. That's another reason these would be smart - you know if they come with cleverly done parts that can be shared among other figures to build other versions, not to mention if they come with two heads - many of us would be buying far more than just one, like I do with most monthly figures.

While I'm not a big gun variant fan (the term "Smash Blade" still causes a nervous twitch in one eye), I have been impressed by the variants thus far for the most part. DB Skelly's dragon disappointed to a degree, but I was suprisingly happy with Thunderpunch He-Man (a lot of little extra things they didn't need to put in there, but did).

I really am goig to miss a lot of the stuff we won't be getting, honestly. I didn't even recall Procrustus form the mini-comics, but I'm quite pleased with the figure. Things like Dem-Man and the big yellow gorilla were really good additions to the line, and I'm even looking forward to the Fighting Foe Men. I know some bad decisions were made and the way some lesser known characters were offered put people off, but I still feel the addition of the concept and never produced figures added a lot to the line, and made it that much more interesting to collect.

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman