1- What I wanted to try out does work, but a number of limitations make it not workable as an ongoing base.

2- BarryK has also removed the Thud Packages after notifying me in case I wanted to clone them elsewhere as it didn't do what he wanted for EasyOS either, he's gone back to Pyro.

Existing QuirkyThud64 builds will remain on my server for at least a year, and then I shall decide if they remain or just appear on the wayback machine.

So i'm going back to T2 by creating a new set of T2 Build Packages at the latest release and I will Reopen the T290 thread when ready and go from there. And it will be a llvm/musl/clang/toybox based system that will arise.

OH, and no, this wasn't a waste of time or skill, it allowed me to test and work out where to go forward.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
02 Sep 2019: After a long think and comparing apples and apples I've decided to go with 3. See the last page for details.

08 Aug 2019: Sorry everybody, but everything's on hold for the moment. However the latest Alphas's are in the main useable for those wanting to go forward.
However,
1- due to a situation totally outside of my control, other work has taken priority for a month or so;

2- I'm planning on rebuilding oe Thud with Pyro's version of Perl as I keep coming across problems that feed back to it as the cause, with the current version. Thats about 400+ packages to do, thank goodness BarryK's automated the process so it just takes time to build them all. I may however, in the end, rebuild with a later Perl instead, but I won't know until I've tried it both ways as to which way i'll proceed forward with;

3- Alternatively, as it does most of what I need at present for the first development environment stage I might just stop here and just build the release version, noting the two problems for users, leaving it up to them if they use it or not and concentrate solely on the development version expansion.

I shall have a think about it!
------------------------------------
30 July 2019: The First Beta for the Users version should be out next week unless new problems arise, with the Developers beta version a few days later.

I'm planning on using the creation of a developers version to fix (hopefully) the last few problems I find in the Users Version.

All released versions will ? should have a live-cd, usfs.xz, devx.sfs, devx.pet, kernel.pet, kernel.tar.gz datasets available.

First release is labeled version 0.8 (should have shown as 0.8.00 but didn't), next alpha will increment to 0.8.01 but you may not see anything available until 0.8.10.

Uploads will occur after 2200+ Australian Eastern Standard time, but it maybe 0200+1 before they are out and available.

Have fun, and comments and ideas are acceptable but this is NOT a woof-CE build, it's based on Barry's WOOF-Q builder. It also doesn't have a lot of niceties so don't expect them to appear there, that's not what this is for.

The intent is when it's suitable it will be used a the stepping stone towards creating a Quirky MUSL builder and on to a Quirky TCC or PCC cored musl build next year.

In parallel with this will be built a Quirky musl-qt Single CD system for Graphics Students to use from 2020 for the Manga / Animation / Storyboard / Storyline / Scripting Course sets. The official packages are getting rediculously costly and all do have a suitable replacement now, although not always multi-lingual to everywhere.Last edited by scsijon on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 20:12; edited 37 times in total

20190614: 0.8.00 WARNING: The iso won't work for every computer system for some reason, just segfaults if it fails, but the thud64-0.8.usfs.xz will happily install to a partition and work! Will sort it out when I build my own Kernel (5.1.x) ,kernel-4.14.109 is from Easy-thud, not quirky-thud. I will add the WoofQ partition installer after i've checked it out for problems running standalone. EDIT: Something's wrong with the differances between barry's Easy ISO builder and the older Quirky one, i'm investigating and updating, will test when i build again. Quirky Thud will still install to either a partition or usb stick ok though, so you can play with it. EDIT: Strange, it fails sometimes in the same machine, but starts ok other times, think i'll go back to the quirky package versions and try it with them, maybe it's a faulty updated package. Still in hand.

20190614: 0.8.00 Notice: Some Icons are only appearing as yellow triangles when using filemanager, they usually work though, will sort it out for when I do the next build, a few links are also wrong. EDIT: Seems like I missed an icons package out, oops,sorry. No it's more than that, some are missing, but others are there, just not showing until reselected by type, looks like a build problem with a path. Further investigation is required. Fault number 0.8.01 has been assigned to this but for a complete fix, you will have to await a new release.

20190618: 0.8.00 Notice: Business in main menu is showing as (null) as there is nothing listed under it, even though apps are installed (thanks for the reminder Keef), something didn't go where it should.FIX There is a link missing in the xdg menu system. Add in /etc/xdg/menus a link to puppy-business.menu called puppy-calculate.menu, run in the console the command 'fixmenus', and reboot the system. that should fix it. Fault fix number 0.8.02 has been assigned.

20190619: 0.8.00 Notice: It seems a number of paths are missing, wrong, or have been set for containers, maybe from the packages, which we of course are not using, i'm working through the list at present. Fault fix number 0.8.03 has been assigned to this but you will have to await a new release as there are a lot of them to do.

20190620 0.8.00 Notice: Frisbee wifi not working properly, under investigation.

20190620 0.8.00 Notice: mp via menu failing, but ok from a console (from Keef), looks ok, links and files are all ok. Fault fix number 0.8.06 has been assigned, under further investigation.

20190620 0.8.00 Notice:/usr/local/bin/defaultimageeditor link missing. Fix: Fault fix number 0.8.05 has been assigned, should be a link from defaultpaint at startup.

20190620 0.8.00 Notice: Petget not working, everything seems to be there, but it's not starting EDIT: The ppm link is missing to start with and some other related files have changes. Fault fix number 0.8.07 has been assigned to this but you will have to await a new release to use properly as i'm working my way through the package files. I'm wondering if Barry was planning on adding it as a separate pet rather than an internal build item, as he has with a few other internal 'bits' like yaf-splash, it does make sense.

20190625 0.8.00 Notice: Volume control is acting strange, I can set it to max via the tray or the tray menu, but if I go into a game with internal settings, I can set it a lot higher and if I leave the game it stays with the louder maximum until rebooted. This is under investigation as it happens with a number of different brands of workstations, both desktop and laptop.Fix: Doesn't make sense, but I think the problem is in the package, it seems it has a lower max threashold than the computers have actually have, reverting to pyro, which works.

20190703 0.8.00 Notice: Error messages re locale appearing in /tmp/xerrs.log. Fix: seems a change in the glibc-locale package requires addition in /etc/profile to fix, add before line 102 'export LANG' you now need a new line with 'export LC_ALL=C' in it, that fixes the problems.

20190703 0.8.00 Notice: Error messages re JWM Warnings for .jwmrc are appearing in xerrs.log. Under investigation.EDIT: CLOSED, Not relevant as far as I can see as they are different on different bases. I shall ignore it for now and take it it's just warnings, when I get near the end I shall revisit and see if I can sort out what's happening and if I should do something or not.

Please add bugs to this topic please, at least for the Alpha, not in puppy's separate Bugs section.

thanks

NOTES:

Problem and fix lists will be ONE per releasable build. It will be updated as fixes/workarounds and other information is available ,so to follow a problem you will need to revisit, it's a lot easier than chasing through multiple pages. Fixed faults will not reappear on the next Faults and Problems list unless they reappear of course, those carried over will, with a comment why. It's the way I usually work elsewhere so i'm implementing it here.

Anyone want to have a go at a background? I was thinking of something like a puppy with a toy hammer in it's mouth and a small anvil under it.

EDIT1: Thanks Keef for the testing, especially frisbee/wifi which i don't have up at present. I will look into it or ask our Frisbee specialist for help.

EDIT2: thanks ally for the mirror, however you will have a few if you intend doing them all, first beta (0.9.0) is still about 20 builds away }

Further comments wil be after the messages, it was just easier in this case to put them here.Last edited by scsijon on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 22:19; edited 11 times in total

This is running quite snappily on a 2gig Core Duo with 4gb ram. Full install on a USB stick.

As you said, some icons not displaying for some reason.
Most programs I've tried have opened quickly and were working. The exceptions are 'mp' from the menu (but runs from a terminal), and the network wizard is slow to start (about 10 seconds). SNS just goes straight to the 'do you want to set this as default' dialogue after I select wireless.
Frisbee runs but won't scan.
I can get onto wifi by using the commandline easily enough.
There is a 'null' on the main menu below Documents.
Other than that, can't find much wrong with it.
Haven't tried the devx yet though.

Re petget:
The desktop icon links to dotpet, which tries to launch ppm, which does not exist.
A symlink from '/usr/local/petget/pkg_chooser.sh', to 'ppm' fixes this and also the menu entry.
Not tested the PPM to see if it is working fully, but it does launch.

Also, clicking on a pet won't work (doesn't start to install).
This is because /root/Choices/MIME-types/application_pet points to petget, which is not in the PATH. Putting in the full path works, but a suitable symlink would do of course.

It won't run from the network wizard as it expects it to be in /usr/sbin/sns.

I think the slow start up is because it is missing yaf-splash:

Code:

# connectwizard
/usr/sbin/connectwizard: line 97: yaf-splash: command not found
/usr/sbin/connectwizard: line 104: kill: (9862) - No such process

EDIT Looks like I was right. Needs a symlink from gtkdialog-splash for yaf-splash. Starts immediately now.

Getting this for Frisbee:

Code:

# frisbee
xwininfo: can not set locale properly
setsid: failed to execute /etc/init.d/frisbee.sh: Permission denied
/usr/local/frisbee/frisbee-main: line 37: 10228 Terminated gtkdialog-splash -placement center -bg orange -text "$(gettext 'Checking network devices')"
/usr/local/frisbee/frisbee-main: line 54: /tmp/.frisbee/pppoedevlist: No such file or directory
/usr/local/frisbee/frisbee-main: line 55: /tmp/.frisbee/pppoedevlist: No such file or directory
/usr/local/frisbee/frisbee-main: line 63: /tmp/.frisbee/pppoefirewalllist: No such file or directory
/usr/local/frisbee/frisbee-main: line 93: /tmp/.frisbee/mobilenbrlist: No such file or directory
/usr/local/frisbee/func: line 776: /tmp/.frisbee/wpa_supplicant_log_tail: No such file or directory
touch: cannot touch '/tmp/.frisbee/pppoedevlist': No such file or directory
touch: cannot touch '/tmp/.frisbee/pppoefirewalllist': No such file or directory
touch: cannot touch '/tmp/.frisbee/mobiledevlist': No such file or directory
grep: /tmp/.frisbee/mobilenbrlist: No such file or directory

(process:10435): Gtk-WARNING **: 18:34:04.958: Locale not supported by C library.
Using the fallback 'C' locale.
widget_comboboxtext_input_by_file(): Couldn't open '/tmp/.frisbee/pppoedevlist' for reading.
widget_comboboxtext_input_by_file(): Couldn't open '/tmp/.frisbee/pppoefirewalllist' for reading.
environment: line 3: /tmp/.frisbee/answer.txt: No such file or directory
environment: line 3: /tmp/.frisbee/answer.txt: No such file or directory
environment: line 3: /tmp/.frisbee/answer.txt: No such file or directory
environment: line 3: /tmp/.frisbee/answer.txt: No such file or directory
environment: line 3: /tmp/.frisbee/answer.txt: No such file or directory
environment: line 3: /tmp/.frisbee/answer.txt: No such file or directory
environment: line 15: /tmp/.frisbee/mobiledevlist: No such file or directory
widget_comboboxtext_input_by_file(): Couldn't open '/tmp/.frisbee/mobiledevlist' for reading.
widget_comboboxtext_input_by_file(): Couldn't open '/tmp/.frisbee/mobilenbrlist' for reading.

# connectwizard
/usr/sbin/connectwizard: line 97: yaf-splash: command not found
/usr/sbin/connectwizard: line 104: kill: (9862) - No such process

EDIT Looks like I was right. Needs a symlink from gtkdialog-splash for yaf-splash. Starts immediately now.

[/code]

Yup, that's one way, but it will give errors elsewhere. yaf-splash is now a pet, barry updated the origonal one with some extra settings and included it but I didn't as I didn't know he had, the pet version will be in the next release.

There is also a number of settings from within Easy I haven't yet added to Quirky Thud, they should mostly be in the release i'm calling 0.8.10, it should be out in about a week if it goes to plan, after i've rebuilt again and it's run cleanly through my test list. There will still be problems, but hopefully most will be at least, under control. 0.8.10 should be the last with the current kernel, I shall be building a 5.1.13 Linux Kernel for Quirky Thud.

And many thanks to Keef for continuing testing and finding and fixing problems.

20190627 20190704 EDIT: This is going to take a bit longer than planned. I've come across a number of quirky><easy changes I have had to recind (back out) to use thud packages, and i've already gone back to a few pyro package versions with some of them to have them work, wheras the thud don't, as well as adding a few that have been added in Easy as packages to replace things removed in parts of WoofQ. Lets now try for mid-late-July as I suspect it's going to take a 'few' more total builds and test runs before the next releasable alpha is completed. On the other hand I can sucessfully build packages with 'what I have got cobbled together' as a build environment (no not 0.8.00, about 0.8.08+) and they all install and work sucessfully together, so maybe the next will be near the end of alpha, as i'm actually ahead of my planned stages by a lot even though i've a lot of 'cosmedic' and cosmetic fixes to do still.Last edited by scsijon on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 19:36; edited 1 time in total

Posted: Mon 15 Jul 2019, 19:04 Post subject:
Re: Current Version Packages and links 0.8.22Subject description: Useable links will only appear here, NOT ON THE WEBSITE.

I've released this under the 0.8.2x rather than further on as i've upgraded the kernel to 5.1.16 and needed to recinded a number of packages to pyro ones. This version also doesn't have the QT5 series in it, they are working sucessfully so i've removed then from this until I start on the 0.9.xx Beta series to save size and time used to fix things, I think there should only be the need for one more Alpha release unless a major problem is found. I've also added mahjongg into the stream.

THIS IS the second releasable ALPHA BUILD, don't expect it to all work

20190614: 0.8.00 WARNING: The iso won't work for every computer system for some reason, just segfaults if it fails, so for now I have decided not to release an iso although I may reverse this and create one at a later date.

20190619: 0.8.00 Notice: It seems a number of paths are missing, wrong, or have been set for containers, maybe from the packages, which we of course are not using, i'm working through the list at present. Fault fix number 0.8.03 has been assigned to this but you will have to await a new release as there are a lot of them to do.CLOSED: I think I have found all of them, please notify me if you find any more missing.

20190620 0.8.00 . Notice: Frisbee wifi not working properly, under investigation.I can't find what's wrong, could our frisbee specialist help please. Problem number 0.8.12 has been assigned. With a few fixes, a missing link and tests and I have this working for me on my loan laptop. Could others test it when I release the first beta in a few days as i'm not going to release another alpha.

20190620 0.8.00 Notice: mp via menu failing, but ok from a console , looks ok, links and files are all ok. Problem number 0.8.06 has been assigned, under further investigation. The link seems to be starting the xrvt terminal, but not finding mp to start so fails. Under further investigation still.Fix:CLOSED: Apparently MP needs to have a link from /usr/bin to /bin and the correct mp (pet not oe package) it now works, just altering it's path in the desktop doesn't work.

20190703 0.8.00 Notice: Error messages re XKEYBOARD keymap unsupported keycodes are appearing in xerrs.log. Still under investigation as to the location with the high keycodes, however it's a warning and doesn't seem to actually affect the system. Problem number 0.8.09 was assigned, CLOSED: as I can't actually find where the extra codes are coming from, they don't seem to affect anything and they are only warnings.

Those above are the carried over problems, I think I have fixed all others

New 0.8.22 Problems

20 July 2019: No new problems have surfaced to date.

22 July 2019: Other than frisbee (wifi only) playing up, the rest seems to be ok now; I'm working on the iso build problem as I would like to issue iso's; frisbee (wifi) needs someone else's brains though, I will have a cheap secondhand puppy compatable notebook next week to try it with at least.

23 July 2019: Frisbee seems to be working (for me at least) after a missing link and general fixes. The First Beta will appear in the next week with the beta having the relase name in it (quirky-thud64).Last edited by scsijon on Tue 23 Jul 2019, 05:15; edited 7 times in total

I am considering changing the philosophy of what I am releasing as this is supposedly to become a Development and Building Tool in the end.

I am considering releasing :

1- a Standard (Users) Version as only the normal (Quirky-Thud64).usfs.xz, this will be without any devx available - to be used for general useage being about 360M in size. Additional pet packages would be available when created to use by ppm or direct installation.

2- a Development Version (Quirky-Dev-Thud64).usfs.xz but with the devx already included in the build,- it's a lot more integrated and will eventually contain extra tools, not available in the Standard Version. It will start at about 1.6G in size, but I expect when all I want is included it will go out to be around 2G.

Could I have some comments please, as this will change how we usually 'do' things in the Puppy World.

Since I liked Quirky better than Easy - it used to run better in my old machine -
and I like the idea of using the packages Barry has compiled instead of the depos of a big distro,
I decided to try this out.

I was used to a frugal instal of Quirky, but with and usfs I don't see how I can.
So after some research I used the old '4install-quirky-to-drive-mbr-esp' script to do a full install on usb.
That worked.
I would still prefer frugal install though.
So this involves a separate kernel with a kernel_modules.sfs, an init, a puppy.sfs and possibly additional sfs.
I don't know if this answers your question somehow?

Just a few observations:
I changed the keyboard to 'be'. That works.
I cannot make wifi connection. There is no wlan0/wifi detected.
A lot of icons are missing or do not show.

I have not really explored much, but I certainly will follow your work and come back with more comments.

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