IMHO Shut up and play yer guitar, Jazz from Hell, and Zoot Allures were the most serious Zappa albums i've listen up to the moment.

Yes. Now that you mention it, Miss Pinky is probably the height of the Maestro's work. Ensemble Modern should do a version in 13/4 time at 340 beats per minute with an extended glissando. And right after the "$69.95, boy/Give her a try" line they could throw in a little Big Swifty done as a country western shuffle before launching in to the Pinky finale.

I think you just described Zappa's arranging method for the 1988 tour.

I have been listening to TGW constantly recently. But does it count as serious? It has such a light hearted tone for the most part. The writing is beautiful though. Eat That Question could be my current favorite pieces of music.

If you find that the Ensemble Modern's Greggery Peccary & Other Persuasions lacks joy and spontaneity then try removing the broomstick from up your arse and have another listen. Unbelievable ...

Well, ... I guess it was addressed to me (though you forgot to mention). Let me remind you that this thread is not about "what rudeness can we throw on the guys who say the opposite of what we think", but about music. So hey, back to the topic (instead of attacking anyone): what do YOU think about the "Greggary..." album?...

smile: B

edit #1: I just keep on loving the LSO albumsome more: Sad Jane and Sad Jane again: just listen to the drum/percussion parts, on even in Bob in Dacron #2. Really interesting to listen to it after/before the Guitar album and/or Jazz From Hell!

I find Ensemble Modern to be quite funny. I certainly can't take it very seriously. I don't care how hard they may have worked!

Musicians trying so earnestly to make music that is difficult to play and presenting it as if they are more serious than anyone else are laughable. I think Punky's Whips, for example, is at least as serious as, say, The Yellow Shark. It's even more serious because it reaches a more diverse group of music fans. Music is serious anytime it communicates serious feelings to so many different types of people. Music that panders to elitist music snobs is hard to take seriously. Not that I'm claiming this is what EM are doing. The only thing I find unbelievable about Ensemble Modern's Greggary Peccary recording is that they bothered.

I don't often resort to rudeness Mr Balint, but Ensemble Modern's Greggery Peccary & Other Persuasions is a brilliant album and I find it full of the joy and spontaneity of playing. Although I could accept someone being a little pernickety about how brilliant it might be, I find describing it as lacking the joy and spontaneity of playing music completely flabbergasting.

Their renditions of Night School and Peaches are delightful and I enjoy the rest of the album enormously.

The broomstick up the arse phrase is a traditional reference to people who are so uptight they're unable to feel anything in the normal sense of the word.

And Mr Downer Midnite - your name is telling - where the fuck are they presenting themselves as more serious than anyone else? And, do you actually know anything about Ali Askin for example? You analyse everything to the nth degree - while simultaneously dissing anyone for being remotely serious - and meanwhile you're as serious as fucking cancer.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

...but Ensemble Modern's Greggery Peccary & Other Persuasions is a brilliant album and I find it full of the joy and spontaneity of playing.

Well, since this is a forum, and one might think that being here means that one is interested in other people's opinion. And that (warning!) MIGHT be different from Yours. To me that's the most interesting part - that's why I still keep on being curious why this album (which I bought and have right here behind me on the shelf, just because being curious) would be brilliant. Remember: the thread is not about me but about music! Right now I'm not brave enough to go into further details on my opinion (just one note: others also said that Peaches here is far from a perfect version here, I can only agree on that), but being curious on Yours! (Really!).

And Mr Downer Midnite - your name is telling - where the fuck are they presenting themselves as more serious than anyone else? And do you actually know anything about Ali Askin for example? You analyse everything to the nth degree - while simultaneously dissing anyone for being remotely serious - and meanwhile you're as serious as fucking cancer.

My name might be telling but you wouldn't know because you got it wrong. (you force me to use a smiley, you bastard!)

You are the one presenting them as more serious than anyone else by getting angry about the fact that some of us think they are dull. I understand what they are doing. My opinion does not stem from an inability to follow the music.

Who did I dis? I don't enjoy or appreciate all music. I'm not referring to EM here, but I particularly dislike music that comes from music students who study other cultures from outside of those cultures and then proceed to adopt said culture's sound having never lived it. It's not a dis, it's an opinion. I don't recall analyzing anything in any great depth. Perhaps I do that unconsciously?You seem angry. Sorry, man.

polydigm wrote:

do you actually know anything about Ali Askin for example?

Sure, he's a musical sponge. So? When/if he decides to represent his own personal experience musically (outside of his experience analyzing, blending and copying other people's musics) I might pay more attention.

NuclearProstate wrote:

polydigm wrote:

...and meanwhile you're as serious as fucking cancer.

Plus wun

You're saying that I am serious as cancer, too? Who is dissing who? Cancer will kill you. I simply don't like Greggery Peccary.

Well, since this is a forum, and one might think that being here means that one is interested in other people's opinion. And that (warning!) MIGHT be different from Yours.

This is just patronising. Do you really think I don't don't get this?

balint wrote:

To me that's the most interesting part - that's why I still keep on being curious why this album (which I bought and have right here behind me on the shelf, just because being curious) would be brilliant.

By your own reasoning, it's just an opinion. I don't see how my opinion is going to change yours.

balint wrote:

Remember: the thread is not about me but about music!

Again with the patronising.

balint wrote:

Right now I'm not brave enough to go into further details on my opinion, but being curious on Yours! (Really!).

Seeing as you ask so nicely, but again, it's just my opinion, I am simultaneously a very rational and very emotional human being. I find inaccurately played music mentally and physically painful. Any type of ensemble however big or small, with even slight intonation problems, drives me nuts. But I also find music without expression very difficult to listen to. So, for example, as much as I am very impressed with the expression of the early Mothers, their inability to perform Frank's compositions accurately is often painful. I've gotten used to the official early mothers albums and can listen to them but Road Tapes #1, while very interesting in a documentary sense, is seriously painful in general.

I am simultaneously impressed by the musicianship and feel of Ensemble Modern. I find it hard to imagine that anyone might not be. I believe that a lot of the comments made about performances of Zappa's music come from people who can't accept that he's gone. The only real difference between Yellow Shark and Other Persuasions is Frank's presence. They learnt a lot from him and they haven't forgotten it. Like or lump it, they are Zappa alumni. Maybe you need to listen to it a few more times.

balint wrote:

(just one note: others also said that Peaches here is far from a perfect version here, I can only agree on that)

If everything is just opinions then quoting other people's in support of your own is pretty hollow. I'm not sure I ever remember Frank doing anything other than expressing his own opinions without ever being too concerned whether anyone agreed with him or not.

None the less, human beings do have common ground and the depth of expression I can hear in GP&OP makes me wonder why anyone couldn't get it.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum