Posted
by
Soulskill
on Thursday March 27, 2014 @07:12AM
from the check-your-dependencies dept.

An anonymous reader writes: "Steve Jobs had it. George Clooney has it. So does Don Draper. Charisma is intangible but powerful: the personality trait that's used to win friends and influence people. Olivia Fox Cabane wasn't born with it. She was a high-school outcast, a socially awkward teenager baffled by the nuance of social interactions. But she was also an analytical thinker. She believes she has reverse engineered the secret of charm, and is so successful that executives now pay her to do the same for them. Cabane's self-help spiel comes with a dose of science. In this article, Teresa Chin examines the science of charisma, and asks why exactly Silicon Valley needs a charisma coach in the first place."

"Critical Thinking" is a meaningless phrase. The Wikipedia page [wikipedia.org] contains nine different definitions, some directly contradictory. So whatever "critical thinking" means, those that use the phrase without saying what they actually mean, are not doing it.

Baloney. "Inward-directed, self-reflective thinking", and "evidence based reasoning" are complete opposites. Any definition that encompasses both, will be so broad as to be meaningless. Can you explain what differentiates "critical" thinking from "normal" thinking?

In many contexts they are quite complementary. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about concepts like self-reflection. Have you considered that evidence-based self reflection might be possible?

Not only are they compatible, but they're not even measuring the same thing, so how can they be opposite at all? Even if they contradicted each other, which they generally do not, they would still not be opposite.

The mishmash that you're doing that is full of unstated and inaccurate assumptions? That is "norma

Ah, but what you're missing is that the page is *designed* to induce critical thinking--you have to figure out which one is the correct definition!:)

Reminds me of Discordian stuff that devolves into:

[lengthy explanation of semi-nonsensical philosophy* which eventually concludes that order and chaos are both a lie]Grasshopper: "...so all this is true?"Master: "What, are you serious? Haven't you been listening to anything I've been saying?! Don't trust me! Think for yourself!"

If you need to resist it, you have already failed, as it had already affected you.

In short, we live in a world which people have an increasing voice in the world. This post alone will probably be read in many countries. Most likely this post will last only a few seconds in your memory and go away.

Now resisting charisma will require more work, because we have so much more information static in our lives and really not to many good ways to filter out a nonsense such as an internet post while someone is taking a break from work, vs. some more valuable information.

Now charisma, is by no means perfect it does show that the person really seems to really care about the information they state vs. the normal static. Thus we naturally will give it more attention. Sure this information can be complete B.S. but they have gave it in a way to get your attention. They got your attention you listen to what they said, then you will need to make a decision to accept or reject that idea. a 50/50 shot! However if you lack charisma your views will be ignored and washed away from the static, and there is no decision to accept or reject that information because it never got your attention.

If you need to resist it, you have already failed, as it had already affected you.

Charisma, like the old tree branch that scratches your window at night, and the drive to eat and fuck, primarily affects the old lizard brain. It's near the same biological level as the autonomic nervous functions. Unless your name is Spock or Jesus H. Christ, of course you've already failed. That doesn't mean you're done for though.

Thank you for your excellent example of rhetorical technique. You've built an impressive straw man from an ad hominem buried into a loaded question, with implied phony refutation, slanter, and appeal to ignorance tossed in just for fun. All in less than 20 words. Posting as Anonymous Coward just adds to the touch. Brilliant! You're catching on to how this social manipulation thing works. I see great things in your future.

You joke, but that was my first thought when I read this gem about 2/3's of the way down:

Her executives are tutored in techniques like “responsibility transfer” [...] and “rewriting reality,” which involves undoing the anguish of a painful experience by coming up with alternative scenarios that transform the event from distressing to excusable.

It's not complete BS, but I think it's more learned by observation than taught. I was very socially awkward growing up but I also just sat back and observed people. When I got to college I made a point to modify some of my habits around people based on those observations and my college experience was a whole lot better than my high school experience. The short of it was that I just realized what type of things that I was doing that made people react badly and stopped them. It also didn't hurt that I lost 40 lbs, worked out every day, got contacts and got rid of my braces.

Seriously though, the #1 thing that I learned to do was just stop talking so much. I geek out with programmers on programming stuff. People run away when you do that in other settings.

Some people learn by observation, some benefit from training. It is kinda like programming or math, some people will pick it up on their own and other people work best when they have a structured class to explicitly introduce elements in context of each other. Some people even need tutoring that focuses on specific areas they struggle with.

People also "grow up" a bit after high school and don't act as jerks as much as they did in High School. Some of that is training, some isn't. It may partially have something to do with officially being an adult at 18. Some kids never act like jerks, because their parents already taught them how to behave as adults even as teens. You don't just magically become an adult the day you turn 18. Maybe you learned by observation because your parents never taught you how to behave in social settings.

I had a similar experience, though it went further. Because of some rare condition I considered myelf different from a very young age (~4) and that initially made me socially distant. In early childhood I would only allow myself to befriend the various misfits and otherwise rejected children of my age, while standing back and observing the 'normal' ones. But as I went to junior high school I decided being a loner wasn't very enjoyable, so I took advantage of the fact that most people didn't know me yet ther

Well yes, almost every action does have a negative connotation to it. Thank you for pointing that one out. You must feel proud that you can use your vocabulary to twist a story to attempt to be positive to make it seem negative.

You can be self aware and still be uncharismatic. I am so self aware that I am uncharismatic by bringing up every fault or error that someone might perceive. I know I'm doing it - I can perceive that it's tiresome for some but in my mind I don't want to be the "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" guy.

An occultist I knew (now on the "other side", unfortunately) considered charisma to be a form of Black Magic: mind control of others to get them to do things for the charismatic that would not be their reasoned choice and might be enormously harymful to their own interests.

Having said that, it's clear that a lot of nerds are so far at the other end of this arms race that they need substantial help to be able to hold their ground against the Pointy Haired among the boss class. It's refreshing to find that it is learnable, and that nerd/tech techniques can be applied to understanding and controlling it.

Look out world: After a few years of application of the psychological equivalent Moore's Law, you might see an explosion of technocrats from the tech incubator enclaves like Silicon Valley.

And look out techies: If the above meme starts circulating among the current powers that be, you might see a burst of government interventioin in and suppression of the tech enclaves.

Not really. A sociopath can have charisma, or they can not. There are just as many sociopaths with good social skills as good math skills, which means there are also quite a few who have bad social skills and EQs.

I'm cool. The problem is, the general public is just too God damned stupid to notice. Reading a book that tells me how to dumb down my interactions with the majority of the idiots that surround me so they can understand what I'm talking about doesn't make me any less cool. Did learning English make Antonio Banderas less cool? No. It just made stupid Americans capable of understanding just how cool he is.

"[Olivia Fox Cabane] is so successful that executives now pay her to do the same for them."

Ever been to an offsite while working for a large company? And did they have an invited speaker who basically talked a lot of entertaining bullshit, which was nonethelss bullshit? Ever wondered how that speaker managed to con a bunch of supposedly savvy and high-powered executives to get the gig? Me neither. Then again, management consultancy still continues to thrive as an industry and I still don't know what they really do.

It's almost as if most executives have no fucking idea what they're doing...

1. Just because others are clueless doesn't imply you are.2. Just because most people are idiots outside their field doesn't imply that everyone is -- you simply have find the people who are good in their field AND can communicate it. Isn't that the very definition of a good teacher?? Someone who is able to explain complicated topics simply?

Subjective Experience (hence Wisdom) is more valuable then some quasi-Objective "truth" that pseudo-experts claim.

It's almost as if most executives have no fucking idea what they're doing...

Oh, they have a good idea. They know they're smiling figureheads. They've shown teeth all their life, but before landing the top position, the teeth were used on those safe to bite. Now the blood has been brushed off, and they smile warmly while watching their backs.

Ever wondered how that speaker managed to con a bunch of supposedly savvy and high-powered executives to get the gig?

Speakers like that prey on clueless managers that have nothing tangible to contribute to what the company is actually doing, but want to LOOK like they're providing valuable leadership in exchange for their overinflated salaries. It's a symbiotic relationship of bullshit. The speaker pretends they're offering valuable advice, and the manager(s) pretend that their brilliant idea of bringing the speaker in is going to somehow help the company. Meanwhile the real brains behind the company lose a day of productivity listening to a bunch of useless, vacuous crap.

I think part of it may be the sports metaphor, where they believe that the coaching enabled one team (perhaps even quantitatively less talented) to beat another team. The speaker represents the inspirational coach.

Part of it may be the "big idea". Management has latched onto a "big idea" that they believe is transformative, the speaker is uniquely capable of quickly delivering this idea to the workforce.

Part of it may just be that's what you do at offsites, have some speaker come out and provide business-

I'm halfway through the article but so far all I've read is "blah blah blah". Atrocious website that requires a cut-and-paste into a word processor to make the narrow article even readable, and as utterly devoid of content as the reader's digest article I read at the dentist.

What is also interesting is that the Slashdot Q&A section skips answers occasionally. For example, do you still remember the Richard Stallman [slashdot.org] and Theo de Raadt [slashdot.org] question sessions from some weeks ago? Where are the answers?

If you keep an eye on the Q&A section, it's not that unusual for the answers to disappear.

For what it's worth I managed to read most of the unreadable article. As much as I could justify setting time aside for anyway. For some people it will strike a chord, others not. The topic is timely for me. I might go to a party, but host one? And while I'm content to join a group of people for lunch or happy hour, I'm almost never the one who suggests it or the one who will make the arrangements. I'm far from a complete social klutz, but I find many social situations tiring and I'm more likely to avoid s

Much like the psychic who never seems to be able to hit the lottery numbers and become wealthy, Olivia appears to have none of the qualities of which she purports to teach, besides being a charlatan that appeals to the pointy haired bosses of the world looking for that silver bullet.

a charlatan that appeals to the pointy haired bosses of the world looking for that silver bullet.

Spot on. Managers need (or are expected to have) a wide range of ever changing skills and traits, and if you claim that you can fill a gap or two, you'll have an easy sale. They are suckers for magic bullets. Just look at the staggering amount of management books available, not the "hard" ones on project management or business administration, but the soft ones. 7 Habits, The Art of War For Business, all with tiny nuggets of wisdom fluffed up and packaged in a bunch of crap. (I've read my share...). He

"Authentic" is my new trigger word. I see it everywhere now and it sends the bullshit meter clanging into the red end of the scale. Almost by definition anything advertised as authentic is not authentic. Your $200 blue jeans are authentic? Great, except, aren't they made in the same Bangladesh sweatshop factory where Walmart's $25 jeans are made?

Do a little research. Watch 6 hours of the Kardashian family, and you will have it made. If the DM disagrees with your actions, say, "But I'm so pretty! Don't you want to be my friend?" If that doesn't work, say, "I have a Charisma of 23. I'm so pretty! Don't you want to be my friend?" At this point, he will either give in, or you will have a chance to sell your obviously useless equipment and buy a castle somewhere.

I get that you're joking, but this is pretty much how the world works sometimes. It

Don Draper? OK, if we're going to demonstrate real charisma, perhaps we should step the hell away from fictional characters from the 1960s.

Then again, Hollywood or Corporate America hasn't been known for its genuine honesty either. Steve Jobs I also hear was a fantastic asshole, although I suppose that garners its own type of "friends" too.

But really, this guy is in the limelight, standing on stage, talking to people because he's famous.He's famous because he was REALLY early on the scene that literally didn't exist before that and he leveraged that new technology, founded a successful company that succeeded on merit and had some really good ideas. The primary one being that giving the users access to the tools you used to make the game content will mean you have an unlimited amount of free content being made for your game.New

It does tell you how to do it, there are several examples in the book of how to do every single thing he talks about.This is one of the books I read every 2 years, well actually I listen to the audiobook every 2 years as a refresher.

From reading what material she has online, it is no different at all to what is in the book, except with a lot of added corporate speak and some things changed to make it look "fresh".

Isn't it odd when "learned charisma" like this is presented as fact as long as it is used for business purposes, but when the exact same techniques are used by dorky men to get girls, this "learned charisma" is decried as false and a total lie. The things that make you go hmm...

Let's not focus on the website layout, the unnecessarily long article, her looks or what you might think you know about "sociopaths" and all managers clearly being manipulative swindlers.She is not teaching people to "mind fuck" others, she is not some "NLP" pushing sociopath. Essentially she is offering a pragmatic approach to overcoming your own anxieties or to calm down a competitive temper. She helps to make certain situations more pleasant for the client and is not pushing tools how to "one-up" conversation partners.So she suggests meditation and a mental exercise of focusing on a relaxing situation (the puppy, or kayaking) and she successfully sells that to some people? Well, good for her! You might think there is little information or "skill" there and you might be right, the point is it can still be damn hard to make a transformation of habits and ways you might have had for a long time and what a good coach does is help you along the way.

I really do not understand the negative responses in here. Yes her message might be pretty simple and "duh!" but at least she has some interesting connections to scientific theories and like I said above, transformations like that are not only about identifying and then "simply" fixing what's wrong.

I would much rather be coached by someone like her instead of some bullshit NLP training where you are taught how to mind-fuck your victim into scratching his left ear with his right hand, literally.

Exactly. Wow, Slashdot unimpressed by an article about management and social skills? In other news, sources close to the Pope say he may be Catholic...

It looks like most of what she's teaching is pretty straightforward stuff - stand up straight, look people in the eye, and think about something calming before a big meeting or presentation so you're less nervous. Also, most people don't appreciate being interrupted unless they've specifically signed up for it (and maybe not even then). It's not "mind control

Its a social coping mechanism. The first thing someone whose insecure about anything does is seek confirmation from others through voicing their opinion. The second thing they do is try to rationalize it away or dehumanize it. The behavior shows up everywhere.

STEM fields are inherently introverted, fields of the mind that require a person to be comfortable with working on hard problems for long periods of time. We cooperate to combine and organize results and requirements, not cooperate as a definition

Being charismatic is not the same as being a good guy. In fact, lots of history's most notorious villains were seen as quite charismatic. They relied on that for much of their success. It has nothing to do with cheating on one's spouse other than the fact that a charismatic person will find themselves with more opportunities to cheat.

Someone like Steve Jobs was selectively charismatic.

And just like technical skills, charisma can be used for good or bad purposes. As the article states, it's a tool. A s

Taking the analogy a bit further, it's not so much as "reverse-engineering" as it is emulating it in software. Some people just have the hardware for it. Those who don't need to learn the algorithms involved before "rendering" charisma. For sure, it won't be as fast or fluid, but it'll mostly work for some tasks. Some of my socially-awkward, geeky friends took great pains in doing this, devouring self-help and socialization books, seminars, etc. The end result doesn't quite look natural, almost like running

I think one his "gifts" is that he could switch between being charismatic and an asshole in the blink of an eye. And I think a key to his success is that over time he mostly figured out when he could get benefit from being an asshole (or at least get away with it) vs when he needed to be more charismatic.

Gift or curse he was able to use it to his advantage, - at least in the business world. Whether he was a happy person or not is another question. I suspect not. In either case I don't think the Olivia Fox Cabane would necessarily see Jobs as someone to emulate even though most people would agree that he did have some charisma.

We don't need idiots lying to our faces, telling us how wonderful their piece of bug-riddled software is and how it will revolutionize our time to entry for our core business into the cloud.

We need good, solid software that doesn't require administrative rights to use, isn't part of a package that we have to purchase to get the one item we need and won't die when the moron behind the keyboard drops their cookie crumbs into their keyboard.

That is actually pretty common. People tend to forget that charisma and body language are social skills calibrated to certain cultures and subcultures. For any given charismatic person you will find people that are drawn to them and people who find them creepy, depending on how well their particular dialects match up. Unlike spoken language where you can quickly identify there is an accent, with body language and such you are just left with an unsettling 'something feels off' sensation.