redrabid wrote:Believe it or not, but for once the hippies were right:"Stardust, we are stardust"Awesome. And so beautiful.

It's actually quite scientifically true also. All the minerals that are necessary for life, originally came from stardust. I only wonder how Joni Mitchell knew that back in 1969.

Where have all the young men gone? Long time passingWhere have all the young men gone? Long time agoWhere have all the young men gone? Gone for soldiers every oneWhen will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. — Frank Zappa

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." — George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

usedtobebabson wrote:For me God is just a human invention to control and hold power over other humans. Only problem is you have to really think about it and stay focused through the religious bullshit to see that.

Exactly! Religion is a man-made thing. Go back hundreds or thousands of years when society was less evolved and people were more stupid - they NEEDED controlling for their own good. Now we're more evolved we need less control (but not no control at all - many people aren't evolved enough for that, yet.)

*IF* there's a "God" then it's the same god for everyone, though people may use different names for their god. *If* there's anything in store for us after death then it's the same outcome for everyone, regardless of what you believe. To believe otherwise would be foolish.

But back to Grace. Someone once said there was a video on youtube of Grace dressed as Hitler at Winterland or the Fillmore but it was deleted. Has anyone seen it, or did anyone save the clip?

I just spent about half an hour looking for a picture of a huge buddhist temple with golden statues and stuff like that but i couldn't find it, i just remember the name was too hard to remember. My point being that each religion has its treasures and I as a catholic am OK with that, I think it's magical, imposing, I'd love to go to Vatican City and check the museums and be able to look at the Pietá, the Sistine chapel's seiling, I'm glad the church can offer such things.

That is way I love humans so much (don't smirk, Okeedoe, I really do): They can be so deliciously inconsistent in their believes and likings. Loving Jefferson Airplane and being a staunch catholic (i.e. anti-free love, anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-prophylactics, anti-anything that was JA and the sixties).Big smile.

redrabid wrote:That is way I love humans so much (don't smirk, Okeedoe, I really do): They can be so deliciously inconsistent in their believes and likings. Loving Jefferson Airplane and being a staunch catholic (i.e. anti-free love, anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-prophylactics, anti-anything that was JA and the sixties).Big smile.

all of which really has nothing to do with the music itself.

as walt whitman wrote:

Do I contradict myself?Very well then I contradict myself,(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

go ride the music, as whitman might have said if he hadn't said "i sing the body electric."

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." — George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

Oh, I agree. But I find the idea of a christian, singing along with "Sunrise" or "Easter?", very funny.By the way, when I wrote "awesome and so beautiful" I meant the science, not the song, which I think is ridiculous."We are golden" Pfff.

Now,that's our (golden) Red.You almost touched me with that ''stardust'' line.Generally, we are of a high concentrated gold containing mental structure mixed with shit and all kinds of dirt.By the way ,whose science is it if it's not ours.Who knows what our stardusted brains are capable of.

Last edited by okeedoe on Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

The more we know, the more we have to explore -that's the only way for us.We are meant to constantly go forward.We are a Gods in endless dialectical journey of the process of self-creation,my dear fellow God.>wink<

Well, I don't believe in the idea of God as an old man sitting in a big throne creayting the world in 6 days, etc, but I believe there's something. There's too many mysterious & unexplained things in this world to totally dismiss the possibility of some sort of life after death. But as to what form that might take... how could we possibly know! It's foolish to start talking about what will happen, what "Heaven" will be like, then to start speculating on specifics, because while we're on this Earth we can't possibly know, we have no idea, how could we? It's up to every individual to form their own beliefs, but don't start shoving those beliefs down others throats. The worst of all are those that go and use their beliefs to go and start a religion. All those people saying things about God, what he's like, what he did, etc. If there's a God you can bet he's absolutely furious at all the things done in His name.

CookOfTheHouse wrote:I'd love to go to Vatican City and check the museums and be able to look at the Pietá, the Sistine chapel's seiling, I'm glad the church can offer such things.

I'd love to go to the Vatican and view all the secret artifacts they've got locked away!

JohnBSails wrote:The industrial revolution is history...

Right now we're living in what might in the future be called the Technological Revolution. I'd say that period started in 18something with the invention of photography and it's at it's peak right about now. We're very lucky to be living at this time where there's been so many technological inventions in the last few decades. In the future people will look back on this period with awe.

Maybe he can't. Maybe he's not even aware of what's happening. Maybe it's a test. If there's a God we don't know what form he takes, making it impossible to speculate on anything.

JohnBSails wrote:I thought it was his creation ? And now he's just watching us how we destroy his creation ?

Maybe it's not his creation. The Bible says it is but that's just a book written by man. Maybe he's not as powerful as the Bible says, because it's just a book written by man. Once we dismiss all the holy books as written by man then we have nothing, only speculation.Maybe the universe was created in the way science believes it was. There's room for both science & God (since we don't know what God is), they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

For me, science is like this formula. One side is beautiful and wonderful. The other is ugly, obscene, and doesn't make any sense. Knowing that all the diversity on earth resulted from an unguided gradual change of organisms through billions of years from just one single common ancestor is astounding and epic is its scope. The evidence is all around if we could but perceive. The ugly side I would say is not science at all, but perversion of its applications, like what JBS posted with the elephants, or the lab experiments done to animals.The thought that there isn't a god is frightening to some because it leaves so many questions unanswered. Evolution does a marvelous job countering one aspect of this. The other I believe is that people want purpose in their life. Without a god, people are required to create their own purpose, which is a tall order. You can't just continue on with the 'purpose' set out by evolution. Evolution is just a process that only 'cares' about genes passing from one generation to the next. For me, I feel that reducing suffering is one of our purposes in life. If god had any role whatsoever in the development of life on earth, why not aim to reduce suffering? Why 'create' predators that so violently attack and kill their prey. Or parasites that literally eat their way out of a host while it is still alive so that the meat is still fresh when the last bites are taken? From the view that there is a god, this is pretty horrifying and sadistic. But in light of evolution, it is the unintended consequence of genes being passed to the next generation.Nobody should change their view on life based on what someone on a forum says. It is important for people to draw their own conclusions. I think the best advice for anyone is the keep an open mind, look at the evidence, and stop thinking humans are so special!