Buttle's problem is that his 3A is only 50% reliable. He rarely lands both a solo 3A and a 3A combination in his FS--he usually falls on one of them. Adding a 50% reliable quad reduces Jeff's chances of nailing a clean FS considerably.

The problem Lambiel will have in skating a clean competition is that his money jumps other than the quad (lutz, 3A) are inconsistent. Weir is a very consistent jumper and he rarely misses a 3A or 3Z, so IMHO, he has just as much chance of landing a clean quad as Lambiel has of skating a clean FS.

I have seen Weir skate a clean FS (NHK), but I have never seen Lambiel do the same thing.

Weren't Lambiels long programs in the qualifying of Worlds(where the same skate that earned him a 153 in qualies likely would be more in the 160 range in the long), as well as the long of the 2004 Worlds clean?

How badly the knee is and if he intends to have surgery is still the most important question about his future. And still no one seems to know anything about this.

Last season there were some pictures on one of his web sites of Plushenko meeting with an orthopedic surgeon about his knee. I think at the time they were talking about some type of arthroscopic surgery, but I haven't heard anything further.

Last season there were some pictures on one of his web sites of Plushenko meeting with an orthopedic surgeon about his knee. I think at the time they were talking about some type of arthroscopic surgery, but I haven't heard anything further.

BittyBug - Exactly. I think it is too late for arthroscopic surgery, if that indeed, is what he needs. I think he will be skating Olys according to Mishin's advice., not the doctor's advice.

Lambiel suffered for years with the pain and sudden weaknesses that one gets with a problematic cartilege in the knee. He finally got the surgery and the rest is history.

As I say, it think it is too later for Evgeni to have the surgery. Let's hope he can keep it in check through the Olys.

Weren't Lambiels long programs in the qualifying of Worlds(where the same skate that earned him a 153 in qualies likely would be more in the 160 range in the long), as well as the long of the 2004 Worlds clean?

Lambiel was "clean" in the 2004 LP if "clean" means he didn't fall, but he turned out of the 4T before completing the 3T, had some tilted and tight landings on several other jumps, and traveled on one or two of his spins, most noticeably in the "headless" scratch spin. In the Moscow qualis, he had a faulty 3F, for which he received -GOE, and he had tilted landings on a few other jumps, for which he received base score instead of +GOE, as well as a spin for which he received base score. His footwork sequences got base (SL) and .10 (circ).

I think his jumps and his presentation were stronger in his Moscow quali skate than in his 2004 Worlds LP, even if I thought the 2004 LP program was a better program choreographically and musically. The best program I've seen him do live was the Dortmund quali, where he used his 2003 program (Chocolat ?).

160 would have been conceivable in the LP if he were able to get +GOE on the elements where he got -GOE or base, and I'm sure that this would have translated into tenths in the PCS scores. However, I think the point is that he hasn't skated a LP and landed his "lesser" jumps as cleanly or as consistently as he would like, and he's giving up the precious points that will be critical to competing with Plushenko.

That said, his 3A has improved markedly this year, though, and I think with a full season of practice without injury leading up to the Olympics, he can clean up the rest. He also has one real "nerves" situation under his belt -- the gold medal was his to lose in Moscow -- coming into the LP as the favorite. And while year's podium was a long shot for him because he fell in the SP, a nemesis for him, he delivered a great SP in Moscow.

Lambiel was "clean" in the 2004 LP if "clean" means he didn't fall, but he turned out of the 4T before completing the 3T, had some tilted and tight landings on several other jumps, and traveled on one or two of his spins, most noticeably in the "headless" scratch spin. In the Moscow qualis, he had a faulty 3F, for which he received -GOE, and he had tilted landings on a few other jumps, for which he received base score instead of +GOE, as well as a spin for which he received base score. His footwork sequences got base (SL) and .10 (circ).

I think his jumps and his presentation were stronger in his Moscow quali skate than in his 2004 Worlds LP, even if I thought the 2004 LP program was a better program choreographically and musically. The best program I've seen him do live was the Dortmund quali, where he used his 2003 program (Chocolat ?).

160 would have been conceivable in the LP if he were able to get +GOE on the elements where he got -GOE or base, and I'm sure that this would have translated into tenths in the PCS scores. However, I think the point is that he hasn't skated a LP and landed his "lesser" jumps as cleanly or as consistently as he would like, and he's giving up the precious points that will be critical to competing with Plushenko.

That said, his 3A has improved markedly this year, though, and I think with a full season of practice without injury leading up to the Olympics, he can clean up the rest. He also has one real "nerves" situation under his belt -- the gold medal was his to lose in Moscow -- coming into the LP as the favorite. And while year's podium was a long shot for him because he fell in the SP, a nemesis for him, he delivered a great SP in Moscow.

I agree with everything you said. He has skated clean programs as far completing each element, but still giving away minor things with low landings,
crooked form on something, little wobbles, etc....

In the short at Worlds he did the same thing on two jumps. His triple axel was done well. His quad had a low landing, crouched, with almost a hand won; his triple lutz his leg was dragging along the ice for awhile. He could have scored 84+ like Plushy did at the GP final without these problems.

I hope he can be fully healthy for a full year, which he wasnt in 2004 and 2005, so he can iron out these reoccuring kinks on some of his elements.

The best program I've seen him do live was the Dortmund quali, where he used his 2003 program (Chocolat ?).

Right you are, hockeyfan! Chocolat is starting to become legendary as the first time Stephane showed he the potential to be the best in the world. Here is a link if anyone wants to download the 2003 worlds QR performance from Asian television:

Stephane skated clean with a 4-3, one 3a, and his typical low landings on the other triples. The thing that impressed me the most this year was how much he improved between Euros and worlds by upgrading the spins and changing to a completely different LP.

Thanks for that link...what a great skate!!!!! So...forgive the dumb question, but how die Stephane do in the rest of the 2003 worlds event...I remember Plushy won and Tim got silver then, right? I am totally blanking on the rest.

In 2003 he finished 10th, 3rd in his QR behind Plush and Goebel, 16th in the SP, 10th in the long. You can see the results here

Thanks! I think I'm just busy and stressed...I looked at the results and still couldn't remember that competition, even though I KNOW I watched it.

Anway, I too hope we get to see many more great programs from Lambiel (and all those other great guys too...Plushy may his injuries not deter him, Weir, Buttle, Sandu, Li and others who I'm sure to be forgetting at the moment)

Right you are, hockeyfan! Chocolat is starting to become legendary as the first time Stephane showed he the potential to be the best in the world. Here is a link if anyone wants to download the 2003 worlds QR performance from Asian television:

Stephane skated clean with a 4-3, one 3a, and his typical low landings on the other triples. The thing that impressed me the most this year was how much he improved between Euros and worlds by upgrading the spins and changing to a completely different LP.

That QR at 2003 Worlds was sensational. He was just so smooooth and lively. Chocolat is one of my all time favourite programs... The music, the choreography, and Lambiel skating to it--everyting about it is a just little magical, and I was an immediate fan. I still can't believe the judges had Goebel ahead of him--IMO he could have won the QR with that skate. I can only hope Stephane will live up to his "long program potential" next year.
And while we are at it, here's Lambiel's rocking SP from the 2002 season which probably most of us missed (again from Japanese TV--how great are they?)http://s17.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...62VRTG23JHA71V

Stephane does a tango! Thanks shine for posting that SP. I had never seen it before. And I agree that Stephane wuzrobbed by Goebel in the 03 QR. Why is Goebel always wuzrobbing someone of something? Why?!

Originally Posted by nicole_l

Wow, he has some serious potential. Get consistent before you retire, Ryan! Please!

Thinking about Jahnke's unrealized potential is so frustrating! I don't see any way for him to make the Olympics, but I would love to see him skate clean at nationals and maybe go to 06 worlds when someone backs out.

It's not just goeble robbing Stephane. stephane wuzrobbed constantly. He should have beaten Joubert when they first came on the scene in Euros; he should have beaten Lindemann in Dortmund, Just my opinions, though.

But then again, he's been absent so much for injuries that no one took him seriously. Maybe things will change. Hope so.