Gatehawk wrote:I should also point out that there's talk that Suarez is pissed at Liverpool as he was, apparently, told that he would be allowed to leave the Reds if a Champions League club came in with a 35 million pound bid.

Nope... Signed a fresh contract and the club has made it clear they aren't selling him.... At least to Arsenal.

If you get confused just listen to the people who actually make the decisions and not sky sports and the Mail

55 million... No one cares if Arsenal fans think its fair. We don't want to sell anyway

I'm now under the impression that there is a misunderstanding between Liverpool and everyone else(namely Suarez and Arsenal). I now think that that clause is what Liverpool claims it to be, but the way they explained it to Suarez when he signed the contract left him with the thought that the clause was an outright release clause.

Gatehawk wrote:I should also point out that there's talk that Suarez is pissed at Liverpool as he was, apparently, told that he would be allowed to leave the Reds if a Champions League club came in with a 35 million pound bid.

Nope... Signed a fresh contract and the club has made it clear they aren't selling him.... At least to Arsenal.

If you get confused just listen to the people who actually make the decisions and not sky sports and the Mail

55 million... No one cares if Arsenal fans think its fair. We don't want to sell anyway

I'm now under the impression that there is a misunderstanding between Liverpool and everyone else(namely Suarez and Arsenal). I now think that that clause is what Liverpool claims it to be, but the way they explained it to Suarez when he signed the contract left him with the thought that the clause was an outright release clause.

I'm under the impression you get easily confused by reality and sports media...

He's not going to Arsenal. Everyone at Liverpool has made it quite clear. What you have there is a story to wind up Arsenal fans

Let's review..

Someone assumes Suarez will file a transfer request ( which he won't because of the lost wages) and repeats and inside info without fact

This precedes a story about Wenger "assuring" his arsenal fans he's trying to get Suarez but Liverpool just won't budge... And oh don't worry about Spurs and Soldado. He wouldn't make it here at the Emirates.

Start seeing this for what it is Gate...your managers playing games with you again.

While Wenger is trying to be "amicable" Liverpool have already told him to get stuffed

InSuarezWeTrust wrote:I think Arsenal just has more fun counting their gold, cause they don't have any silver. Suarez to Spain or nowhere, the end.

I just don't see anyone other than Arsenal interested in Suarez right now. That's all I see. Like I said, Real Madrid seem more concerned with attempting to get Gareth Bale and unless that falls flat and they give up on their pursuit of him, they won't be going after Suarez.

Either Liverpool sells him now, waits till later and start getting lowball offers later in the window from other clubs that might spring up in interest, or just keep a guy who, at least from the games I've seen, has looked almost completely uninterested in playing for Liverpool during the preseason. It's Liverpool's choice.

InSuarezWeTrust wrote:I think Arsenal just has more fun counting their gold, cause they don't have any silver. Suarez to Spain or nowhere, the end.

I just don't see anyone other than Arsenal interested in Suarez right now. That's all I see. Like I said, Real Madrid seem more concerned with attempting to get Gareth Bale and unless that falls flat and they give up on their pursuit of him, they won't be going after Suarez.

Either Liverpool sells him now, waits till later and start getting lowball offers later in the window from other clubs that might spring up in interest, or just keep a guy who, at least from the games I've seen, has looked almost completely uninterested in playing for Liverpool during the preseason. It's Liverpool's choice.

LOL. Suarez will be just fine, thanks. We'll keep a hold of him and get the 25-30 goals he's good for this season.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Gatehawk wrote:I didn't say it was twitter pictures that I saw. BeIn Sport aired the matches I was referring to.

So to be clear you catch him coming in late on in two friendlies against small international sides after a month of play and because he doesn't celebrate an own goal or clip the heels of some Thai kid he's on a moan and wants to leave? Stop playing the game Gate. I've got faith you're better than this.

BTW.... If (if) Suarez decides he wants to go to court (Which he won't) no judge is going to rule against his own signing of the contract. Regardless if the Arsenal press in London believe he was mislead verbally (which again is ridiculous... Someone may have mislead Wenger though) he signed his contract. Those tend to be quite binding...

Time to move forward Gate. Is Arsenal doing anything this window? Its been a strange summer for them

Gatehawk wrote:I didn't say it was twitter pictures that I saw. BeIn Sport aired the matches I was referring to.

So to be clear you catch him coming in late on in two friendlies against small international sides after a month of play and because he doesn't celebrate an own goal or clip the heels of some Thai kid he's on a moan and wants to leave? Stop playing the game Gate. I've got faith you're better than this.

BTW.... If (if) Suarez decides he wants to go to court (Which he won't) no judge is going to rule against his own signing of the contract. Regardless if the Arsenal press in London believe he was mislead verbally (which again is ridiculous... Someone may have mislead Wenger though) he signed his contract. Those tend to be quite binding...

Time to move forward Gate. Is Arsenal doing anything this window? Its been a strange summer for them

1 - you a legal expert now? You haven't seen the contract and you are sure you know how it would be interpreted?

2 - your statement is wrong, as contracts can be struck down due to various circumstances surrounding their entry.

3- it might not be a matter of taking it to court, many contracts in football provide for reference being made to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne.

4 - the CAS could choose to take an approach similar to the Bosman case by considering EU rules preventing restraint of trade

5 - if Suarez REALLY wanted a move, he could achieve it by taking a contractual ambiguity and pursuing it as a means of (a) justifying his non-performance of his contract with Liverpool, and (b) giving himself leverage. Otherwise, why even put it out in the public forum? Just saying.

As much a legal expert as the idiots at BBC guessing about Suarez intentions based on a Wenger presser. To that I guess I'm as much an expert in body language as the same morons who think Suarez is moaning when he doesn't smile

To your points.... The Bosman rule doesn't apply here. And while Suarez is more than legally capable if drawing this to court the fact remains no court is to going to force Liverpool to invalidate his contract. Could they enforce a misunderstanding in a provision? Perhaps but the legal wrangling and embarrassment for all involved would make it a ridiculous venture.

Am I wrong? I don't think so in this case. Could it become some courtroom drama? In that sense yes.

There is a lot of speculation in the papers, but nobody seems to be saying that there is a release clause, instead a clause that has a differing interpretation. Liverpool seem to be saying that the clause requires them to tell Suarez when a bid is made for him, which is a pointless clause as any formal bid gets reported on any relevant media outlet. Suarez's people seem to be saying that the clause allows them to discuss personal terms with any club that bids the relevant amount, which is extremely strange as players under contract are prohibited from such discussions until the last 6 months of their contract.

Bottom line, they wouldn't have put something like that in unless they were asked, and they probably tried to fudge the issue by putting in wording which each side is interpreting how they wish, which gives rise to this issue which is their own creation. And presumably Suarez's people made Arsenal aware of the clause.

I never said anything about Bosman applying, but the same principles could apply. EU law has a number if fundamental principles, including freedom of movement and freedom of trade. The registration of players pre-Bosman was judged incompatible with these laws. A court could always interpret Suarez's contract in a way so as to make it consistent with these principles. That is why every Spanish player contract has a release clause.

Uncle Si wrote:BTW.... If (if) Suarez decides he wants to go to court (Which he won't) no judge is going to rule against his own signing of the contract. Regardless if the Arsenal press in London believe he was mislead verbally (which again is ridiculous... Someone may have mislead Wenger though) he signed his contract. Those tend to be quite binding...

Time to move forward Gate. Is Arsenal doing anything this window? Its been a strange summer for them

Just forget talking about Suarez for now. Cause, one thing I can never agree with is that there's Arsenal press in London or England(John Cross seems to be about the closest you get) every paper seems to be against Arsenal. I said countless times last year, Arsenal grinds out a 1-0(or have a winning margin of 1 goal) and the papers say Arsenal didn't deserve to win or they lucked out, clubs like Man U, City or Chelsea do the same thing and get praised and their wins are called something like "performance of a champion".

Also about the transfers, I do think they'll eventually sign somebody, whether it's a big name like Suarez(as an example Si, no need to go on a rant about that) or a affordable player who does have decent quality, I don't know which it would end up being. And when I say affordable player with quality, I'd mean someone like Podolski and Giroud as those guys were well worth what Arsenal paid for them last season. I'm not gonna be a cynical dick like probably 51% of Arsenal fans who'd rather boo a player who we were linked with but didn't sign(especially when it's not his fault, nor Arsenal's, he's not on our squad) or make stupid threats that they'll likely not follow through with. I'm waiting till the end of the window to judge Arsenal's transfer business.

So who is our striker to start the season with if Sturridge is still recovering? Borini? :/ Would love for him to go on loan to Watford if we could afford to be without him him. Italian manager and players, think he'd score a lot in the championship.

InSuarezWeTrust wrote:So who is our striker to start the season with if Sturridge is still recovering? Borini? :/ Would love for him to go on loan to Watford if we could afford to be without him him. Italian manager and players, think he'd score a lot in the championship.

Costa. Probably paired with Aspas and Coutinho tucked in behind them. Then a midfield of Gerrard, Sterling/Ibe, Henderson/Allen.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

InSuarezWeTrust wrote:So who is our striker to start the season with if Sturridge is still recovering? Borini? :/ Would love for him to go on loan to Watford if we could afford to be without him him. Italian manager and players, think he'd score a lot in the championship.

Costa. Probably paired with Aspas and Coutinho tucked in behind them. Then a midfield of Gerrard, Sterling/Ibe, Henderson/Allen.

And that's good enough. Without Costa its good enough... But word has it Sturridge is ahead of schedule. 50-50 right now he plays against Stoke. Might go up by next week

Didn't you see Gates post about how no one likes Arsenal though? (BTW our own Brendan finally making a mockery of Arsenal and Wengers lack of class in their pursuit of Suarez. ... Tis business but still nice for the manager to address it)

That last person is actually why I'm so upset with it. It's a preseason friendly, why do anything that cheap and pathetic?

Uncle Si wrote:our own Brendan finally making a mockery of Arsenal and Wengers lack of class in their pursuit of Suarez. ... Tis business but still nice for the manager to address it

Okay, you're gonna have to explain exactly what Arsenal has done in this transfer saga that would count as "classless". Because all I've seen is Rodgers make ridiculous statements like "Suarez is worth as much as Cavani", and now it's "Suarez is worth 100m", and then there's Liverpool's owner who decides to comment on Arsenal's bid with "What are they smoking at Emirates?"

Arsenal in the meantime, have not said anything about this until a few days ago. The players haven't even mentioned Suarez by name, when asked about possible transfers, until this past week and Wenger has avoided questions about him until this past weekend.

So go ahead with your "all knowing knowledge" that you claim to have over mine. What classless thing did Arsenal do?

That last person is actually why I'm so upset with it. It's a preseason friendly, why do anything that cheap and pathetic?

Uncle Si wrote:our own Brendan finally making a mockery of Arsenal and Wengers lack of class in their pursuit of Suarez. ... Tis business but still nice for the manager to address it

Okay, you're gonna have to explain exactly what Arsenal has done in this transfer saga that would count as "classless". Because all I've seen is Rodgers make ridiculous statements like "Suarez is worth as much as Cavani", and now it's "Suarez is worth 100m", and then there's Liverpool's owner who decides to comment on Arsenal's bid with "What are they smoking at Emirates?"

Arsenal in the meantime, have not said anything about this until a few days ago. The players haven't even mentioned Suarez by name, when asked about possible transfers, until this past week and Wenger has avoided questions about him until this past weekend.

So go ahead with your "all knowing knowledge" that you claim to have over mine. What classless thing did Arsenal do?

Tapping up player in regards to transfer. That ridiculous one pound extra bid. And now Wilshere publicly speaking about Suarez. Classless.

Explain to me how Suarez isn't worth as much as cavani? Because he bit someone? Grow up Peter pan. And whether you believe he us or isn't is immaterial. He's a Liverpool player. We want this much for him.

Its not all knowing hotshot. Pretty common knowledge in honesty. And now the Liverpool manager has finally said something on it.

Look like I said.... Its business. And its ruthless. Not going to sit here and discuss the merits of what you feel is classless and what isn't it. But you made an underwhelming bid. Was rejected. You added one pound more. That's effing classless. Call it "cheeky" if you want.The owner felt it stupid enough to address it with a tweet about it. You want the player? Meet the valuation. Don't add one pound to a poor bid.

Arsenal look stupid at the moment. Have a different opinion? Save it Gate. We will never agree on this. You obviously can't see beyond Arsenals side on it. But I can't bear another moan from you.

Jesus you were about to lose it on a dive in a friendly (which you lost. Arsenal can't even win a fake preseason trophy. And don't you guys host this one?)

Uncle Si wrote:our own Brendan finally making a mockery of Arsenal and Wengers lack of class in their pursuit of Suarez. ... Tis business but still nice for the manager to address it

Okay, you're gonna have to explain exactly what Arsenal has done in this transfer saga that would count as "classless". Because all I've seen is Rodgers make ridiculous statements like "Suarez is worth as much as Cavani", and now it's "Suarez is worth 100m", and then there's Liverpool's owner who decides to comment on Arsenal's bid with "What are they smoking at Emirates?"

Arsenal in the meantime, have not said anything about this until a few days ago. The players haven't even mentioned Suarez by name, when asked about possible transfers, until this past week and Wenger has avoided questions about him until this past weekend.

So go ahead with your "all knowing knowledge" that you claim to have over mine. What classless thing did Arsenal do?

Tapping up player in regards to transfer. That ridiculous one pound extra bid. And now Wilshere publicly speaking about Suarez. Classless.

Explain to me how Suarez isn't worth as much as cavani? Because he bit someone? Grow up Peter pan. And whether you believe he us or isn't is immaterial. He's a Liverpool player. We want this much for him.

Its not all knowing hotshot. Pretty common knowledge in honesty. And now the Liverpool manager has finally said something on it.

Look like I said.... Its business. And its ruthless. Not going to sit here and discuss the merits of what you feel is classless and what isn't it. But you made an underwhelming bid. Was rejected. You added one pound more. That's effing classless. Call it "cheeky" if you want.The owner felt it stupid enough to address it with a tweet about it. You want the player? Meet the valuation. Don't add one pound to a poor bid.

Arsenal look stupid at the moment. Have a different opinion? Save it Gate. We will never agree on this. You obviously can't see beyond Arsenals side on it. But I can't bear another moan from you.

Jesus you were about to lose it on a dive in a friendly (which you lost. Arsenal can't even win a fake preseason trophy. And don't you guys host this one?)

All Wilshere has said was that he would like to have a player like Suarez on Arsenal. Doesn't seem classless to me. I also haven't seen anything that makes it sound like Arsenal tapped up with Suarez. Oh and want to read something interesting? Here's what Rodgers said:

"I've got to say I've always associated ARSENAL as a club with class and so there was a wee bit of a game there. For us, it's about moving on and doing our own work."

and here's what Wenger said about Suarez

"I don't want to speak about Suarez, because that is between Liverpool and Arsenal. We will completely respect what Liverpool wants to do. We want to (sign the player) if it is feasible in an amicable way."

Who's being classless again?

And about why I don't think Suarez is worth 55 million? I said it before, I wouldn't want to buy a sports car with a history of engine troubles, crashes, etc. You guys are free to think he's worth 55 million with all the past behavior problems, I've pointed it out that I agree that his talent alone is worth the 55m, but he's got that rap sheet of past issues and that wouldn't make him worth that much in my eyes, that's a massive gamble on a player who at any moment could lose his mind and get suspended for important runs in the season.

This whole saga is embarrassing to both sides and I'd rather it be done and over with sooner than later.

LOL, it's not embarrassing to anyone, Gate. the player is worth what we want for him. Meet the valuation or get out. Liverpool don't have to 'consider all the factors'. If you want him, cough up the money, don't make low-ball bids, then say Liverpool aren't playing fair. Liverpool knows what they value Suarez at. Arsenal or anyone else knows which player they're getting for that money. If they don't feel that the player is worth that kind of money, then simply move on to another target. It's really that simple.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

You don't see adding an extra pound to a rejected bid as classless? Again brilliant

Don't get me wrong... It was funny. But still....

It's my understanding that the extra pound was to ensure that clause(whatever it was) was activated.

A clause that Arsenal would not know of unless they had spoken to the player or his agent.

Just make a competitive bid. Obviously Arsenal rate the player but they had to know he's worth more. That bid was a cheap move.

Again its business. Class is for the handshake after the game. If Liverpool had made that bid I'd think the same as you. But I think you'd be skipping puppies off a bridge if someone pulled that crap with Arsenal. Think how upset you were with the Fabregas fiasco

Re: Suarez - There's no way Liverpool should sell to Arsenal. They've as good as told Arsenal this as well, so until Arsenal offer a ridiculous fee for him they should keep quiet. However, Liverpool can not sell their best player to another team in this league, especially one who are on roughly the same tier (I'm sure Rogers et al think that they can realistically have a chance to finish above Arsenal, anyway).

Tapping up is doing my nut in, especially the glee with which the media here are anticipating one of the few remaining legitimate stars left in the league disappearing off to Spain. Sure, it might be a big story when the player's agent calls you to say that Bale wants to leave Spurs and play for Madrid, but they really shouldn't be trying to pimp the best players in the league to another one with such vim and vigour (if you ask me). In almost every report in the papers/Sky Spurs are being presented as the bad guys when as far as I can tell Real had multiple articles in Marca about Bale wanting to come and Madrid's impending bid, numerous players talking about how great Bale would be for the club (and vice versa), Ancelotti talking about Bale's impending arrival, all before any bid had been made.

Having convinced myself that Bale to Madrid was inevitable (it probably is), I'm beginning to think that the club is less than impressed with a) any of this bollocks mentioned above, and b) any bids that have actually been received and that he might stay. Another factor may be that Real may well be offering the cash over 5-10 years, as they are already in about half a billion euros debt and their benefactors, the government, isn't in the best shape to be throwing sums like 100 million around. I also think that the club see Bale as being worth a heck of a lot more to them in marketing revenue than any other player they've ever had and will only sell if they think they come out on top. But obviously playing in Madrid at the Bernabeu has got to be a pretty massive draw for a 24 year old and I couldn't really blame Bale for wanting to go there, but I think the way the club (and his agent leaking Bale's discontent and desire to move to anyone who'll listen) are going about this they might be scuppering any hopes of a deal. I still think Bale's gone and there'll be new faces at the Lane, but I certainly think there are a number of factors at work that may see him, reluctantly or not, stay at the Lane.

I just gotta say this right now. I gotta think the resentment and "classless Arsenal" remarks have more to do with a couple of reason.

1) Arsenal refuse to offer what Liverpool want.2) Liverpool are doing everything to keep a guy who might actually not want to stay there.3) Reds fans are more worried that this could turn into "Fernando Torres Part 2", where you sell a key player and replace him with an expensive bench warmer(granted they did also signed Suarez with Carroll).4) The fear that him going to Arsenal could push the Gunners to ending their trophy drought and Liverpool into the bottom half of the table(or worse, relegation, which I doubt would actually happen with Gerrard there).5) People still hoping that Madrid(or another European powerhouse) would come in and take Suarez at the last second, so he doesn't stay in England. But that one's looking less and less likely every passing hour.

I do understand that Liverpool fans are upset at this, I mean damn, me and other Gooners were in this same position a year ago with that backstabbing Judas Van P***y. I can't fault you guys for not liking the idea of Suarez to Arsenal. Let's face it, Liverpool don't want to sell him for the amount Arsenal are offering, and Arsenal clearly don't want to take a £55 million+ gamble on a player who could wind up suspended for any number of games if he let his behavior fly out the window. This has basically become a game of chicken, and neither side wants to back down yet.

Gatehawk wrote:I just gotta say this right now. I gotta think the resentment and "classless Arsenal" remarks have more to do with a couple of reason.

1) Arsenal refuse to offer what Liverpool want.2) Liverpool are doing everything to keep a guy who might actually not want to stay there.3) Reds fans are more worried that this could turn into "Fernando Torres Part 2", where you sell a key player and replace him with an expensive bench warmer(granted they did also signed Suarez with Carroll).4) The fear that him going to Arsenal could push the Gunners to ending their trophy drought and Liverpool into the bottom half of the table(or worse, relegation, which I doubt would actually happen with Gerrard there).5) People still hoping that Madrid(or another European powerhouse) would come in and take Suarez at the last second, so he doesn't stay in England. But that one's looking less and less likely every passing hour.

I do understand that Liverpool fans are upset at this, I mean damn, me and other Gooners were in this same position a year ago with that backstabbing Judas Van P***y. I can't fault you guys for not liking the idea of Suarez to Arsenal. Let's face it, Liverpool don't want to sell him for the amount Arsenal are offering, and Arsenal clearly don't want to take a £55 million+ gamble on a player who could wind up suspended for any number of games if he let his behavior fly out the window. This has basically become a game of chicken, and neither side wants to back down yet.

FFS Gate, you really are delusional. Your entire post is nonsense speculation. Suarez has never once said that he is unhappy at Liverpool, hasn't even hinted at it. Bottom half? Relegation? Costa will be a Liverpool player by the end of the week. that's 15-20 goals a season easy. Sturridge is another 15 goals a season. Aspas good for 5-10. Coutinho good for 5-10. It's like you don't even watch football. Arsenal lost their best goalscorer last season in RVP. Did they finish bottom half? Wise up.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

Well when you've finished near the middle with him, how do you think you'll actually do if he were to leave? Liverpool aren't exactly genius' when it comes to replacing key losses(I'm surprised they got as much as they did for Carroll's transfer to West Ham), don't say Arsenal's no better cause they've at least maintained finishing Top 4 despite losing key players in each of the last 5 summers.

Well when you've finished near the middle with him, how do you think you'll actually do if he were to leave? Liverpool aren't exactly genius' when it comes to replacing key losses(I'm surprised they got as much as they did for Carroll's transfer to West Ham), don't say Arsenal's no better cause they've at least maintained finishing Top 4 despite losing key players in each of the last 5 summers.

Suarez has only repeated what we all new. So no its not intriguing. 55 million. That's the price Gate. Its business. And to assume Liverpool should somehow grant him or Arsenal some discount after staying loyal to the player despite the embarrassment he's caused the club over two years is really naive.

I'm sorry you've not figured it out yet. Arsenal hasn't. Suarez hasn't. Really surprised how desperate Arsenal is. Do you really want a player like Suarez? I mean honestly?

I ain't bovvered. Liverpool are holding all the cards here. Transfer requests mean very little when you've 3 years remaining on your contract. Liverpool can hold out for the right price - as I've said all along. 55 mil seems to be it, so we'll see who flinches first here. Seems like Arsenal are putting all of their transfer eggs in one basket here.

Football is not a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that. ~ Bill Shankley

peachesenregalia wrote:I ain't bovvered. Liverpool are holding all the cards here. Transfer requests mean very little when you've 3 years remaining on your contract. Liverpool can hold out for the right price - as I've said all along. 55 mil seems to be it, so we'll see who flinches first here. Seems like Arsenal are putting all of their transfer eggs in one basket here.

Not bothered. Just don't want him at Arsenal. Chelsea's in now apparently. Happy to business with them again.