Something about Mary (ghosts, demons)

It is interesting that at the end of Revelation we are in structed not to add or subtract anything from the book. I wonder if John or God was
referring to the Bible as we know it now? After all, when we look at the letters to the churches from Paul, I wonder if Paul had any notion that when
he was writing them that they would eventually be bound into the book called the Bible.

The Church existed from the beginning!
God created Adam and Eve for the Church(Paradise)

Because they disobeyed the Law of God....though shalt not eat from the tree(which later became the CROSS of redemption) they were SHUT out from the
garden od eden (representing the CHURCH.

Now, Mary Mother of God..THEOTOKOS .....means the Bearer of God..

She is Holy because the New Testamnet tells us.....if you beleive in the Bible...take the whole truth and not just want benefits our OWN self the
''I''

Quote///
Following tradition, She was obliged to marry.
Knowing that She made a promise to remain a virgin, the high priests and priests did not want to leave Her without a guardian, so they betrothed Her
to Her relative, an eighty year old carpenter named Joseph,
renowned for his righteousness and who also had an extensive family from his first marriage (Mat. 13:55).

In appearing to Her, the Angel called Her “full of grace,” ie. found favour with God (see verse 30) — especial love and veneration, God’s help
that is essential for holy and great deeds.
The words of the Angel bewildered Mary by their extraordinary nature, and She commenced to ponder over them. Having calmed Her, the Angel foretells
the birth of a Son from Her,

“How can this be, since I do not know a man?” — would have been completely incomprehensible and would have made no sense, if She hadn’t given
a promise to God, to remain a Virgin forever.
The Angel explained that Her promise would not be violated, as She will give birth to a Son without a husband, by extraordinary means.
The Holy Spirit, “Power of the Almighty,” will bring about her seedless conception ie. the Son of God Himself (see 1 Cor. 1:24) will overshadow
Her, will enter Her like a cloud akin to that which overshadowed the tabernacle, as expressed by Isaiah (19:1),
“Upon a swift cloud.” While the Blessed Virgin did not demand any proof, the Angel himself in confirmation of the authenticity of his words,
pointed to Elizabeth who had conceived a son in her old age by the will of God, to Whom nothing is impossible.
The Blessed Virgin knew through the Books of the Prophets(Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God is found in the Old Testament) that not only glory awaits
Her and Her Divine Son, but also grief. Nevertheless, completely obedient to God’s will, replied: “Behold the Virgin servant of the Lord! Let it
be to Me according to your word.”

(Luke 1:39-56).
Elizabeth greeted Her with the same extraordinary words that were uttered by the Angel: “Blessed are You among women” — and added: “And
blessed is the fruit of your womb!” — although, as Her relative, should have known about the promise given by Mary to remain a virgin.
Following this, Elizabeth exclaimed: “But why is this granted to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?” She immediately explains the
meaning of her words in that, the child she was caring “leaped in the womb” no sooner than she heard Mary’s greeting.
Undoubtedly, under the infusion of the Holy Spirit, the child in Elizabeth’s womb sensed the other Child — He, before Whose arrival into the
world, humanity would have to be prepared by him.

Read the passages.....then click on the left for the scriptures it is found in......

Yes, I agree with so many apparitions being from the devil.....as he can became an angel of light when he wants to, and has on many occasions fooled
alot of people who rush to see Miracles.....

Just because of foolish people saying that this and that is a miracle does not mean that The Theotokos should be treated the way she has because of
some peoples Ignorrance to what the TRUTH is and says ......

The Church is there for helping......YES, the TRUE church will be there right up until the END OF DAYS.....Christ said it....

Saints of the Church are also regarded as intercessors...........and are pleasing to God...
quote///the pious veneration of holy relics, based on their miraculous nature, originated from Divine Revelation.
Even in the Old Testament God deigned to celebrate with miracles the holy relics of certain of those who were well-pleasing to Him.
Thus, by the touch of the holy relics of the Prophet Elisea, a dead man was resurrected.
The tomb and bones of this Prophet,
who had prophesied to Jeroboam the destruction of idolatrous altars,
were greatly revered in Judea.
The Patriarch Joseph also left a testament to the sons of Israel to preserve his bones in Egypt and, during their exodus, to carry them to the
promised land (Genesis 50:25).
AND //QUOTE... So it is that the handkerchiefs of the holy apostle Paul healed the ill and expelled unclean spirits (Acts 19:12).
With his mantle the Prophet Elias struck the water, separating the waters of the Jordan, and along the dry bed of the river crossed the Jordan with
his disciple Elisea (IV Kings 2:8).
The prophet Elisea did the very same thing, himself, with the same mantle, after the taking-up of Elias into heaven (IV Kings 2:14).
All this has its verification and source in the Divine power that rested in the garments of the Savior, which encompassed His most pure and Divine
body. Moreover, by His inexpressible love for man, the Divine Lord allows the servants of His Divinity to work miracles not only through their bodies
and clothing, but even with the shadow of their bodies, which is evident in an occurrence with the holy apostle Peter: his shadow healed an ill man
and expelled unclean spirits (Acts 5:15-16).

AND.......Saint Damascene, summarizing the life-giving teaching of Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition concerning the pious veneration of holy relics,
preaches in a Cherubic manner from the altar of his God-bearing and Christ-like soul: "The Saints have become according to grace that which the Lord
Christ is according to nature.
That is, they have become gods according to grace: pure and living habitations of God. For God says: 'I will dwell in them, walk in them, and I will
be their God' (II Corinthians 6:16; Leviticus 16:12).
The Holy Scriptures likewise say: 'the souls of the righteous are in God's hand, and death cannot lay hold of them' (Wisdom of Solomon 3:1).
For death is rather the sleep of Saints than their death.

Further: 'Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His Saints' (Psalm 119:6).
What, then, is more precious than to be in the hand of God?
For God is life and light, and those who are in God's hand are in life and light. Further, that God dwells even in their bodies in a spiritual manner
the all-divine Apostle attests: 'Know ye not that your bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you?' (I Corinthians 3:16).
And, 'the Lord is Spirit' (II Corinthians 3:17). Thus, the evangelical truth: 'If anyone destroy the temple of God, him will God destroy—for the
temple of God is holy, and ye are that temple' (I Corinthians 3:1
MORE.... www.orthodoxphotos.com...
Also read on the lives of Saints.... www.orthodoxphotos.com...

How can one compare their own life, to those that served God day and night........wrestling with true demonic powers UNSEEN!

QUOTE////The ultimate goal of the saint is to imitate God and live the life of deification (theosis). St. Maximos the Confessor (seventh century)
writes that the saints are men who have reached theosis; they have avoided unnatural development of the soul, that is, sin, and tried to live the
natural way of life (i.e., living according to created nature), turning and looking always towards God, thus achieving total unity with God through
the Holy Spirit.

St. John of Kronstadt (1908 AD)
quote His words......
On reproaching others of their evil he said,
"It is better not to pass on reproachful words,
but to keep silent about them or,
even if it is not true,
convey words of love and goodwill; then our spirits will be at peace" and, "if you wish to correct somebody's faults of your own accord,
restrain yourself,
because, usually,
through our pride and irritability,
we do more harm than good... Pray to God that He Himself will enlighten the mind and the hearts of men; if God sees that your prayer is full of
love,
He most certainly will grant your wish.
An embittered person is ill; to cure him we must apply to his heart a plaster of Love", and finally, "Look at every human being as if he were unique
in God's world, a great miracle of God's wisdom and grace,
and do not let the fact that you are accustomed to him serve as a ground for neglect". www.orthodoxphotos.com...

We have people who have lead a life with prayers and fasting(Who Christ Himself said that DEMONS can ONLY THIS WAY go away ! )and if we ourselves are
sinful we should look at imitating those pious people that truly imitated our God and Saviour Lord Jesus Christ.....then we shall know what being a
true Christian is suppose to be.....

It is interesting that at the end of Revelation we are in structed not to add or subtract anything from the book. I wonder if John or God was
referring to the Bible as we know it now? After all, when we look at the letters to the churches from Paul, I wonder if Paul had any notion that when
he was writing them that they would eventually be bound into the book called the Bible.

Before one determines if the end of Revelation was referring to the whole bible, I think it would be best to first answer, "Is the beginning of
Revelation (Rev 1:11) referring to the whole bible?"

It is interesting that at the end of Revelation we are in structed not to add or subtract anything from the book. I wonder if John or God was
referring to the Bible as we know it now? After all, when we look at the letters to the churches from Paul, I wonder if Paul had any notion that when
he was writing them that they would eventually be bound into the book called the Bible.

Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and
possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD
your God which I command you.

There it is in the OT also.
It still applies today.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So we have it in the OT and NT.
God was serious about the commandments, and just because we are under grace, it does not mean we can trash the commandments.

God knew of the strong draw that statues and images would have on people. He knew how much people loved to bow down to things that looked awesome.

In the same breath that God gave that warning about keeping the commandments...He added an extra thing about the images

Deu 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the
likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Statues, statues of people, images of all kinds...the RCC is loaded. home.nc.rr.com...

Originally posted by jake1997
Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and
possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD
your God which I command you.

There it is in the OT also.
It still applies today.

Add nothing.
Shall we see what Scripture teaches on that? Oh wait, you already quoted the beginning of a lesson that includes "many additions" to the law.
Mat 5:18-48

If the commandments given were enough, Jesus would not have had to add additional information, thus defying the commandments set forth in Deu 4:1,2

All the commandments can be found hanging from one truth divided into two rules. (Mat 22:36-40) If you learn and live those two rules all the other
words describing this Truth (all the laws and prophecy) are not needed.

It is interesting that at the end of Revelation we are in structed not to add or subtract anything from the book. I wonder if John or God was
referring to the Bible as we know it now? After all, when we look at the letters to the churches from Paul, I wonder if Paul had any notion that when
he was writing them that they would eventually be bound into the book called the Bible.

Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and
possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD
your God which I command you.

There it is in the OT also.
It still applies today.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So we have it in the OT and NT.
God was serious about the commandments, and just because we are under grace, it does not mean we can trash the commandments.

God knew of the strong draw that statues and images would have on people. He knew how much people loved to bow down to things that looked awesome.

In the same breath that God gave that warning about keeping the commandments...He added an extra thing about the images

Deu 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the
likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Statues, statues of people, images of all kinds...the RCC is loaded. home.nc.rr.com...

So in keeping the 10 commandments, does that mean you honour the 7th day?

Jake,
I've been fallowing this thread a few days.
I will not waste my time finding the right qoutes, you probably know the specific references better then I, I am but a simple person who lives by The
Word.
Here is one though Luke 1. 41-55
What are you doing? You are creating hate, seperation of the Body of Christ, who are YOU to judge, beware, we have but ONE judge, at the end of times
all shall be revealed.
You are so filled with bitterness towards a God you dare not bow to, for if you had you would have achieved humility and meekness, compassion.
Are you just trying to make the classical point that every despotic leader/organisation in history has made, that he/they hold the whole
truth

Why don't you use all that energy to fight the Big Guys, those who pollute our enviroment, who poisen us with medicin, who take all our GOD GIVEN
rights away, who monitor our lives in subtle ways, who go to WAR proclaiming peace hiding behind a "bush".
Fight them Jake and that demon of bitterness within you.
I don't care if you know every single verse in the Bible, if you don't have compassion you have NOTHING.
Here is a little personel thing. I was a member of a pentacostal movement years ago( they all deny Mary's devinity that makes them real
"christians" in you mind, right Jake?) Well I was shunned by the whole F___:bnghd: congregation, because I had the nerve to devorce a man who was
very close to killing me, I was shunned by some 400 people.

You are probably not getting my point here, so let me say this in a very rude manner.
Our Heavenly Father, The Omnipotent, EverLasting, Awesome Creator of all Life doesn't give a SH:stfu

ups) of how many times you or any other sorry
selfrightious soul pours out Bible verses or "stands on corners" yelling Jesus Jesus (sorry guys).
God cares about our intention our heart.
Take a retreat to a very poor place and hold a child in it's last minutes dying of starvation.
Life Bless
WrenLittle:shk:

Hi Wren,
What wonderful courage!
I thank our dear Lord Jesus for people like you...Your dedication to God, LOVE and modesty is to be commended. I'm not attempting to "soft saop"
you, it's just that when I see other Christians firmly but lovingly standing up to so-called "Christians" who are nothing more than Scripture
quoting hostile bullies who show NO LOVE, NO COMPASSION, NO MERCY, NO HOLY SPIRIT (just as our wonderful Jesus did to the Pharasiee's) it makes the
Holy Spirit in me rejoice!!!

This reminds me of discussions held with "dinasours" from the '70. Psycological BS.
No Jake I have no time for bitterness, every breath I recieve in gratitude, knowing by experience that our lives are fragile. I have recieved the
wisdom from my loved ones who have gone before me, to rejoice in every day, ponder the mysteries of life and first and foremost be honest to one self
and others. Meaning, live a wholesome life, live your dreams, love each other unconditionly.
The message from those who are to pass the viel should not be rendered vainly.
I too have several times, at sea, come close to the line, and there is no "water walking" out there. A very humbleing experience. Such encounters
produce two types of people, compassionate or indiffferent.
Guess what I am
Your argumentation is equel to that of a 10th grader, throwing words and sentances back and forth. This is not a recess, life is not a drill to toy
with, you ridicule the fate and faith of millions of The Creators children.

There is a term for people like you, "spiritual vampirism" you feed on others anciety and anger.
Mary
Jesus said somewhere in the Holy Book "....that not all shall be revieled at once, but piece by piece" That the diciples where not ready to recieve
the whole truth.
Are the reveltions by Our Holy Mother part of the truth? who am I to know?
I am ashamed of the deeds commited in the name of God, I am ashamed of my heritage, I am ashamed of my own past ignorence. I have NO right to question
any ones way to Our Creator. None
But ,beware young one, Jesus also said that we shall not condemn one another whom confess to the same faith.
Well,
May the Force Be With You ( ups ) Star Wars day today, isn't it
Life Bless
WrenLittle

No Jake I will not submit to pharasean selfrightious behaviour.
But I will qoute a prayer performed every morning by Sisters in a monestary:
Dear Lord Jesus
We Believe in You
We Praise You
We Trust in You
We Love You;

We Pray for all those who don't believe in You;
who don't praise You
who don't trust You,
who don't love You

Period. I rest my case, I do not wish to fight for the sake of combat but for enlightment and joy and happiness and well a pancake
WrenLittle

Who are you "ignoring"?? Who???
The MODS would have outrid any inapropriate conversation,
Who made the last qoutation you listed??
Who accepts Mary as a "hore"
You don't have the guts to say so, do you?
You are just attacking in random, go practice martial art it would calm you down,:bnghd:
WrenLittle
Singing clear and loud.

Originally posted by Wren
What are you doing? You are creating hate, seperation of the Body of Christ, Here is a little personel thing. I was a member of a pentacostal movement
years ago( they all deny Mary's devinity that makes them real "christians" in you mind, right Jake?) Well I was shunned by the whole congregation,
because I had the nerve to devorce a man who was very close to killing me, I was shunned by some 400 people.

We are told by Christ Himself that we are to be careful so that we are not deceived(if you are being deceived(lied to) you don't know that you are).
Some individual people will come saying they belong to Christ and do not. Worse yet some denominations will proclaim they know the way to God and
eternity and yet do not. Not all roads lead to God. There are liars out in the world deceiving billions of people.

I too agree that the catholic denomination does not teach salvation as stated by the Bible. I also have problems with charismatic and pentecostal
denominations. Being slain in the spirit is not Biblical either.

I just sat and watched a live catholic event from California. Jesus Christ was not the focus of the event, Mary was, and Mary can't save you. A
statue of Mary was there and the rosary was said 50 times by people from many countries. There was a cross with a Jesus figure nailed to it with his
eyes closed. Jesus is no longer on the cross. He's alive and seated in heaven. His sacrifice was offered once for sin, not over and over in the
eucharist.

Why does all this matter. Because it is not the truth of salvation. You only have one life to accept Christ. If you reject Him or think that
someone has told you how to come to Him(but have really not, but been deceived as Jesus warned) there isn't another life to try to get it right, or a
purgatory to be purged in for a little while.

Why do I care. Because I don't want anyone to enter hell for all eternity. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Wren
But ,beware young one, Jesus also said that we shall not condemn one another whom confess to the same faith.
Well,
May the Force Be With You ( ups ) Star Wars day today, isn't it Life Bless
WrenLittle

[edit on 12-5-2005 by Wren]

We certainly do have to watch what we say about others(christian and nonchristian), but you are assuming that everyone who says they are a christian
really is. That's not the case. A few parables deal with this. The wheat and tares is one. Tares look exactly like wheat, but produce no fruit.
Do I believe that all catholics are unsaved and going to hell, no. Do I believe all baptists are saved and going to heaven, no. Jesus told us there
will be tares in with the wheat. It's not they might be there, He tells us they will be there and will be trying to deceive. Is every one who goes
to my local church saved. I hope so, but I doubt it. So since those people are in my local sphere of influence and I know I'm saved then I better
make sure I do and say everything I can to make an impact for Christ. Christians have a responsibility to(nicely) help others when they stumble, and
be ready to accept help ourselves when we fall. But always, always, always, the truth of salvation in Jesus Christ alone cannot ever be watered down.
Because He alone saves.

You realize what the "force" stuff means don't you. It's a lie. God is not a "force" that can be tapped into and used for good or evil
depending on your choice. God cannot be manipulated. God does not contain both good and evil. In Him is no darkness at all. A christian doesn't
use God, God uses us.

dbrant,
Well I lost my temper, when the auther of this thread so openly attacked the Jews ( the chosen ones, right?)
I too find it appauling when the church degrades Christ and leed people of simple minds astray.(Mary, But that doesn't make her a hore, as God isn't
changed by the evil done in His name)
Our Lord spoke in justice to the Pharasies.
But I give up here I have witnessed too much suffering in life and been to close to our Creator to condemn any soul searching God and my vision is
blurred with wrath in the presence of selfrightious prejudice.
I will return to my nest and ponder humbleness and pride.
I was jokeing about the force, thought that was obvious:bnghd:, and I like fairytales, if that is a sin, Lord have Mercy.
Oh, am I going to heaven. This is a statement: I don't think about it, it is not an issue, I DON'T care. I will be judged in the end and all I can
do now is give the little I can to a world in pain. I will stand in the face of my Creator in complete trust because He KNOWS me "for better and for
worse". He knows me better then I know myself, to me that is comforting. Helen, SeaPeople,
Good and calm kind posts I wish I could harnish my temper.:shk:
Life Bless
WrenLittle

who show NO LOVE, NO COMPASSION, NO MERCY, NO HOLY SPIRIT (just as our wonderful Jesus did to the Pharasiee's)
God Bless,
lapi7

I'm a little confused with this statement. Are you saying Jesus was right or wrong to talk bluntly to them?

Yes debrant...I can see that you're a little confused. If you read the entire post in context you'll see that I was refering to the proper way that
Jesus stood against and handled the legalistic bullies of His day...they (the pharisees) were the one's with no love, compassion or mercy...just like
many of the so-called Christians of today. And just as it enraged the pharisees of Jesus' day to dare to be told that they could possibly be wrong
about anything...no one (christian or not) can dare to point out to many Christians and their churchs their faults or shortcomings without the fear of
having their throats riped out by their loving, thoughtful, smiling, Bible quoting breathern...just like Jesus...Hope this clears up your confusion!!!

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