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rollinTHUNDER

Posted 30 March 2014 - 06:40 PM

Some believers think that only the faithful Christians will be taken in the rapture,with those unfaithful Christians left behind to endure the tribulation.What do you think?

Hi bopeep,

Is that not what our Lord said in His very own words?

Matthew 24:44-51Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

He was alone with His disciples when He told them that He was going away to His Father's house to prepare a place for them, and then promised them that He would return for them (John 14:2-3). However, not all believers are disciples.

There are several theories that are hotly contested still to this day.

Twice, Paul called the rapture a mystery.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Ephesians 5:31-32“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.

After receiving revelation in the third heaven, Paul stated that some things were not permissible to tell. I believe he knew more about this mystery than he was permitted to say. Many claim that it was Paul who revealed this mystery, but actually, he only added a few more clues. Christ was the original, and He provided most of the clues and many more in His parables. How fitting that is, since Christ, Himself, is the resurrection and the life.

There are no scriptures stating that the entire Church will be raptured. In fact, Christ told His disciples that we must be ready. Why would He repeatedly warn us to be ready, if all of His servants will be ready anyway? And finally, the bride is not said to be ready until very late (Rev. 19), after all of the martyrs are killed. The martyrs will also be dressed in white and return to reign with Christ. Obviously, the martyrs won't be raptured, so evidently, the entire Church will not be ready when He appears.

Christ warned us to be ready, but the bride is not ready until late, because five of the virgins were not prepared.

There are two ways the living saints will enter into the kingdom. Those who are ready will go to the wedding feast (rapture), but the souls of those saints who are not ready will be seen under the altar (martyrs). The bride (Church) is not ready until the martyrs have all been killed.

Revelation 19:7-9Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.(8) And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.(9) Then he said to me, "Write: Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!" And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

Revelation 14:12-13Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.(13) Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.""Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

Those who are ready will be rewarded when the Son of man appears, but as you can see in the passage above, the works of the martyrs follow the them. In other words, they will be rewarded after they are martyred. Those who teach that the Church or bride will be raptured are totally missing the point.

Revelation 22:12“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Atwood

Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:42 AM

Luke1214

Posted 01 April 2014 - 11:08 AM

Spock

Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:08 AM

Spock

Senior Member

Senior Member

1,312 posts

I think yes.

I just have come around to that line of reasoning. It makes sense and it makes me understand scripture better looking at it this way. Let's face it, we are not all alike and probably don't deserve to be treated like we are equals.

I have no problem knowing that more faithful believers will be getting more privileges than lukewarm believers.

In addition, I have no problem knowing some Christians (even if this means me included) may still need to be purified through fire (tribulation) because they never really were fully committed to the lordship of Christ, but were more only committed to him in order to get out of hell.

OneLight

Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:31 PM

Qnts2

Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:08 PM

Qnts2

Senior Member

Senior Member

1,751 posts

I think yes.

I just have come around to that line of reasoning. It makes sense and it makes me understand scripture better looking at it this way. Let's face it, we are not all alike and probably don't deserve to be treated like we are equals.

I have no problem knowing that more faithful believers will be getting more privileges than lukewarm believers.

I had a good friend who talked about those things she did for Jesus, and her concern that she would not receive many crowns (compared to others). Somehow, that seemed wrong to me.

It took a while for me to come to an understanding of the rewarded crowns. God had me doing somethings which might be called 'ministry', but there was something I noticed. If I was teaching, and people praised me for what I taught, sometimes the people said they were blessed for a particular thing I said. But, it was not a rare occasion when what they received was not what I thought I was saying. It was then that I realized that God had given me something, and I had used it to teach, but what people actually heard might have been given by the Holy Spirit Who used a line I said to explain what that person needed to hear, and not necessarily what I was saying. In otherwords, if I were to get a crown for having taught, I now know, it was the Holy Spirit using something I said to actually teach. I do not deserve the crown as I did not do any actual 'work'.

I know we will get the crown of salvation, but I know I did nothing to receive salvation. I did not do any actual work. It was Jesus Who did it.

I have been on the street, witnessing. But, between you all and me, I am a shy person. Everytime I have gone out, I am very nervous, bemoaning what I have committed to do, and knowing I don't know what to do really. I am no good at this. But, when I get there, suddenly, I am filled with boldness. That's not me. People who need to hear, hear what they need, and that isn't me either. Suddenly, the answers to questions come quickly in my mind, and that is not me. I'm not such a quick thinker. So, if there is some kind of crown for this too, I can say that I did not do the actual work, it was Jesus in me.

When I read:

Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne,

When we get to heaven, I think we will see and understand far more then we do now. I think we will see just how much it was actually Jesus in us and thru us Who did all that was heavenly good, that we participated in. So, I have little doubt that I will gladly be casting any crowns I receive before Jesus, as He actually did the works and deserves the crowns.

I do not believe we actually do much, for salvation, and after salvation to earn any heavenly awards, as all that is heavenly good is done by Jesus.

bopeep1909

Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:45 PM

bopeep1909

Royal Member

Royal Member

9,492 posts

Jesus Christ has a tremendous amount of mercy,grace,understanding and compassion.He is the perfect judge.Not like the judges we have in our world today.When we get a verdict from Christ we know it will be fair.

rollinTHUNDER

Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:59 PM

There is only one rapture, or being caught up to be with Christ in the air. Who goes, only God knows.

Bulls-eye on both shots, brother.

There's only one rapture and we need to be ready (prepared).

Many teach that all believers will go. But scripture says to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape all these things, and to stand before the Son of man (Luke 21:36), not to assume we are all worthy.

rollinTHUNDER

Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:39 PM

Can't disagree with you more. Rewards in Heaven will be all about what YOU DID with what was given to you.

We will not be treated equally by the master at the Bema Seat judgment. Many will walk away ASHAMED. Some will walk away in HONOR.

It's all up to us. What do we want?

Amen to that, brother.

The funny thing about the Bema seat judgment is that very little is said about it in God's Word, yet most people that I hear talk about it as if we will all go in the rapture, where our works will be judged. Scripture does not say that. And that appears to contradict several scriptures and the parables as well, not to mention Rev.22:12. So there must be some other way to understand this, and I believe there is.

God's ways are much higher than our ways. While we're down here living on the earth, we have men appointed to judge between us, and we must go to the courthouse and physically stand before them. But Jesus is sitting on His throne in heaven. He does not need us to physically stand before Him. There is absolutely nothing we can say or do that is hidden from His eyes, nothing. Our lives are an open book every second of every day. This is why I believe that when He steps off of His throne, His judgment is set and time is up -- game over. Then He will be coming in the clouds and He said our rewards will be with Him, to give to everyone according to their works (Rev. 22:12). Only those who are worthy when He appears will be able to stand before Him. Two will be in a field, one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other left. You know the rest of the story...

chloe_fantastic

Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:05 AM

chloe_fantastic

Senior Member

Worthy Watchman

1,365 posts

If it's true that we somehow have to earn our spot in the first rapture, what I want to know is how do we know we're good enough? How do we know we've done enough? How do we know we've prayed enough, been watchful enough, loved God and His Word enough, resisted temptation enough, avoided carnality enough, had enough faith, done enough works?

Is there some sort of objective standard somewhere in Scripture that lets us be sure?

Shouldn't I be doing these things because I love God and want to please Him already, if I'm truly a believer?

rollinTHUNDER

Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:25 AM

rollinTHUNDER

Royal Member

Royal Member

3,210 posts

If it's true that we somehow have to earn our spot in the first rapture, what I want to know is how do we know we're good enough? How do we know we've done enough? How do we know we've prayed enough, been watchful enough, loved God and His Word enough, resisted temptation enough, avoided carnality enough, had enough faith, done enough works?

Excellent questions, Chloe!

I think a lot of people misunderstand this. Some will claim that this is just salvation by works, but it really is not, because our salvation is based solely on what Christ did for us on the cross, if we believe. But that is only the first step in this long journey. We have to continue walking in the way, and when Christ returns He will judge what His servants have done and reward them according to their works. There are three different types of believer (see parable of the sower), but only two of these will end up being saints when all is said and done. But it's not based on how good we are or how much we do, but rather if we will do what He commanded us to do. He has scattered many clues throughout His Word. There are believers and then there are disciples, hearers and doers, faithful servants and lukewarm. There will be only two classes in the kingdom of heaven, the greatest and the least. But forget what I say, because all of your questions can be answered with scripture.

Matthew 5:19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Is there some sort of objective standard somewhere in Scripture that lets us be sure?

Yes, our reward will be based on the Word of God. The other things we have done in this life will not be recognized.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Shouldn't I be doing these things because I love God and want to please Him already, if I'm truly a believer?

Oh my, you ask very good questions!

John 14:21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

The more we want to know Him and draw nearer to Him, the more we will be in His Word.

Luke 4:4And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

This is what it really means to be ready, being prepared in His Word and doing it. But don't worry about trying to be perfect, because we will all stumble from time to time, but the Lord will pick us up and He knows our hearts.

Spock

Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:36 AM

Spock

Senior Member

Senior Member

1,312 posts

If it's true that we somehow have to earn our spot in the first rapture, what I want to know is how do we know we're good enough? How do we know we've done enough? How do we know we've prayed enough, been watchful enough, loved God and His Word enough, resisted temptation enough, avoided carnality enough, had enough faith, done enough works?

Is there some sort of objective standard somewhere in Scripture that lets us be sure?

Shouldn't I be doing these things because I love God and want to please Him already, if I'm truly a believer?

I would start with Luke 21:36 prayer and then while I am on my knees in prayer I would ask God to reveal ANYTHING in my life that is displeasing to him and is in need of repentance. I think God loves these prayers, and I think the Holy Spirit loves to illuminate an open mind.

Stay in God's word and in prayer and most of all in LOVE for your neighbor and you can't go wrong.

Like the good book says, "he who draws closer to me, I draw closer to them." ( somewhere in James)

Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:04 AM

Marilyn C

Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:47 AM

Marilyn C

Senior Member

Soapbox - Members

1,708 posts

You are either following Jesus, looking for Him to come or you are caught up in the world`s affairs. Of course we need to be responsible in our life to every day living but where is our heart. That is the key. Our lips may say one thing but our hearts, our motives, our desires where are they focussed? Mmmmmm