Tuesday, May 02, 2006

Immigrants' rallying point: Right to dream

I admit to you, reader, that the point of the huge demonstration in Chicago Monday was unclear to me, even as I headed into the Loop to check it out.

Organizers here and in many other U.S. cities had said these were rallies for "immigrant rights." But what rights, exactly? And which immigrants?

Many news stories referred to the demonstrations as protests against
U.S. House Resolution 4437--a bill calling for strict crackdowns on
those who are in this country illegally. And, sure enough, I saw plenty
of signs as I walked along with the marchers into Grant Park that
blasted the proposal in various ways. But Senate leaders have already
said clearly, not to worry, 4437 is dead.

Amnesty for all who are now in this country illegally?

Those planning the march and the politicians backing it had seemed to
be avoiding that word. It doesn't play well with citizens in opinion
polls.

Many marchers were not so shy. Signs and T-shirts promoting "Amnistia" and calling for "Amnesty Now" were plentiful.

So were signs demanding "legalization"--a gentler catch-all term that
suggests a process rather than a pronouncement--"dignity" and an end to
racism and discrimination. As I walked into Grant Park and toward the
stage, I saw many marchers wearing a T-shirt from Spanish-language
radio station WNTD-AM 950 that asked for "fair and just immigration
reform."

Well, yes. Who could disagree with that? But to me, the wording on that
shirt simply rephrased the question: What, exactly, did these marchers
want? And did I agree?

I'd about given up trying to find the point of it all in signs, slogans
and chants. The message was seemingly strong, defiant and yet
diffuse--a show of strength, pride and determination without a clear
theme.

I find this issue difficult, as many Americans do. (take my 10-click Web survey on immigration here and view the results)

I admire immigrants
greatly--my father is one--and I'm grateful for their contributions to
this country. I see in their striving for a better life for their
families the same honorable impulse that drew my ancestors here.

It was a happy (for me) historical accident that I was born here and that my forebears got in when the gettin' was good.

But I resent to the point of bitterness the charge that anyone who says
we should enforce our immigration laws and control our borders is a
hateful, selfish racist who doesn't know history and enjoys seeing
families ripped apart in some misbegotten effort to guard our last
vestiges of cultural purity.

So I was glad, finally, to see a T-shirt that summed up the point of
the rally: It was a hand-lettered shirt, probably done with a Sharpie
pen, and it was on a girl maybe 13 years old who was standing with her
family to the right of the stage as the speakers began.

The shirt said, "Don't take my dreams away."

A specific but not unreasonable request. One made implicitly and with
varying degrees of stridence by all the illegal immigrants in the crowd
Monday.

We're a nation of laws, it's true, but we're also a nation of
dreams--the greatest such nation ever. And our laws should reflect that.

But, yes again, we're
going to have to get over that because the alternative is either a
harrowing program of deportation or a feeble program of continuing to
look the other way.

Dream preservation also requires a real commitment to strengthening our
borders and enforcing laws in the workplace. No kidding this time. When
we turn a blind eye to the creation of a massive underground,
undocumented workforce, we create nightmares and end up exporting
dreams.

The point of Monday's demonstrations was as simple as the words on that
girl's shirt, and as easy to agree with: We can and we should figure
out how to leave in tact the dreams of those who are here.

Comments

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Good question - why is this even an issue on either side of the aisle? Probably because this nation is incapable of dealing with substantive problems like the deficit, Iraq, energy, and bankrupt social programs. Everybody loves a good distraction.

I clicked into video coverage yesterday which was showing a man giving a speech in the park. He was flanked by people I assume are immigrants and who appeared to be from a number of different ethnicities - a melting pot to be sure.

Except the speech was in Spanish - as if the other immigrants didn't matter.

Eric,
What you say is true-up to a point and in fact misses the point.
Should we as a nation decide to legalize the illegals, that will not stop illegal immigration.
Employers are driving this issue. They want labor and they don't want to pay for it.
Legalize this bunch of immigrants and as citizens they will want more. More money, more benefits. So the greedy employers will fire them and hire more illegals.
A new law will not stop them any more than the law we have now stops them.
The reason is they own the politicians and the government.
If the Founding Fathers were alive today, I guarantee they would be sitting in a basement somewhere saying to each other,"I thought we fixed this, but it looks like we will have to go do it again."
And perhaps we should.

Jose can you see? They want America just like back in the Alomo days.Theres no money in Latin America so they come here to play Baseball and work other jobs to send all their money back to Latin country's while not paying taxes or high intrest rates like the rest of us minorities.

We are a nation of laws. If we want unrestricted immigration or a guest worker program then we can enact legistlation to that effect. Until that time, illegal immigrants are just that, "Illegal". They should be returned to the country from which they came.

There are legal routes to become a citizen. These people decided they are above the law and don't have to follow the rules. My family followed the rules to citizenship, why shouldn't they? If conditions are so bad in Mexico, then rally to have the conditions changed IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

The thing that's driving me crazy is that the media keeps leaving the word "illegal" out of the description of the events. I was under the impression the march was for Illegal Immigrant rights. The people that were there saying, "I don't want my kids thinking I am a criminal, I am just a hard worker." Uhm no, you came into the country illegally which is a crime. Do the math. And they show that they are in america to work by taking the day off? And taking their kids out of school?? Great example, another disrespect for the US.

What about the dreams of those who have entered the country legally and are legally working through the process to become naturalized citizens? Do their dreams take a step back by, honestly, giving amnesty to those who are already here illegally and flaunt the US Law?

The immigrant workforce is better than our homegrown one. Americans have lost their hunger to do a job well. I've been getting lots of work done to my house since last fall. The worst workers (showed up late, left early, talked to each other all the time, audibly complained to one another about the work) were born in the USA. The best (put in long days, wanted to please me with good results, did what it takes to do the job right) were immigrants.

I am all for legal immigration. Yes, the majority of US citizens had a forefather who immigrated to this country. Most legally, some not. What I am having a difficult time with is the fact those forefathers learned English, embraced the American ideal and obeyed the law. We've been a nation of english speaking people for over 200 years, and in the last 20 we've had to make changes to be politically correct and not to offend anyone. At some point it is necesary to say ehough is enough.

I agree with everything you said, but I feel like you glossed over the bigger problem here. Your apparently covered it in five words: "enforcing laws in the workplace." I do not think we should blame the illegal immigrants. I think we should blame the people who illegally give them jobs. The real problem is that employers want to exploit, and immigrants are willing to be exploited. Congress should crack down on the exploitation harder than they do the immigrants. The employers are the real evil to our society.

Wow, Eric. I too have a dream. Each night I dream of stealing unnoticed into my local bank. I dream of taking hundreds if not thousands of dollars while no one is looking, and taking them back to my home (tax free), leaving the bank to fend for itself. Can we make a law for my dream too?

The United States is not anti immigrant so the whole premise of the marches was false. We have legal immigration programs. I don't for a minute believe the lie that the US economy can't function without illegals. This means that there are other agendas and motivations behind this movement. Mexico is the root of the problem because of its weak economy and corrupt politics. They are more than happy to export their excess population. US businesses that actively recruit illegals to exploit cheap labor compound the problem. We may not be able to do much about Mexico but we certainly can deal with the latter. They must suffer the full force of the law and be exposed to public humiliation and retribution.

The key word in everything here is ILLEGAL. I have no problem with legal immigrants. They make the country stronger. At the very least, they respected our laws.

But these rallies are nothing but demands for 'rights' for ILLEGALS. They are criminals, and should be deported.

If I was a legal immigrant, I would not be to happy with those that jumped the borders, skipped waiting as I had, and then got rewarded for it.

The ILLEGALS can pretty it up all they want -- but the fact is they did not respect our laws and are here illegally. They put a strain on social systems, healthcare, schools. Which all the rest of us (legal immigrants and natural born) pay for in higher taxes.

We must control our borders and stop the flow. After that is done, we can think about guest worker programs and/or increasing the immigration quotas. But let's secure the borders first. And stop talking about 'rights' for criminals.

I agree that the qestion is hard to answer. I imagine that it is actually unimaginable. I was in the march, and it seemed that everyone was there for different reasons. There were communists celebrating May Day, there were First Peoples demanding recognition and voice, and of course recent illegal immigrants asking for Amnesty. I imagine the main reason people were there was to practice the American value of self-expression. Sometimes it helps just to have your voice heard, and combining with 400,000 people makes that a little more possible.

All this talk about lack of understanding by American citizens towards illegal aliens is nonsense. The average American understands just fine. I'll bet you that nine out of ten LEGAL American citizens have no problem whatsoever with LEGAL immigrants. And yes, we appreciate their contribution to our society. The media enjoys leaving out the "illegal" part because it just doesn't have that same heart wrenching drama. At a time in this country when American citizens lose more and more of their civil liberties because of "national security", we are supposed to turn a blind eye to millions of lawbreakers. And why? Because corporations want to make a profit at the expense of the worker?
It is a presidential election year in Mexico. If a group of people more than a million strong want changes in the laws, changes in their economic future, a chance to realize dreams, wouldn't they be best served marching for change in Mexico?

Immigration is such an uncomfortable issue because most Americans refuse to acknowledge dirty truths from the past, or their own dirty feelings in the present. Until we admit to actual xenophobic feelings in us, there won't be sensible immigration policy like some other nations have.

I am a Black male and I met a Venezuelan female that makes three times what I make. Her boss is giving her 3 months off from work so she can go back to Venezuela to AVOID paying taxes. She explained to me that she can stay in the U.S. for 6 years without paying taxes. Now is that fair for the rest of us? Is that what Ozzie Guillen goes thru? If so then either make them citizen's and make them pay taxes and high intrest rates like the rest of us or kick them out!

First let me say that I am Hispanic; my parents came here from Puerto Rico. I understand that our (Puerto Ricans) situation is completely different from other Hispanic immigrants. We are citizens of the United States whether we were born in Puerto Rico or the mainland. My wife is of Mexican desent, born in Chicago. Not all Hispanics agree with the "immigration rights for Illegals". My father-in-law came to the U.S on a temporary visa. He followed all the immigration
regulations; held a job, took English classes at night, and stayed out of trouble. Three years later he was able to bring his wife and two children, then had two more children here in the states. He and his wife became U.S citizens in accordance to the law. Like most Hispanics, he is very proud of his heritage but fully understands the need to follow the rule of law.
As far as the sign on the little girl, why is it that this is the only country where you dreams can come true? I understand the opportunities that our country offers, but if opportunities and dreams cannot come true in their country of origin, then maybe they should start to change their goverments so as to immitate the goverment and opportunities of the United States. Of course when we try to initiate such initiatives, then we are said to be intrusive and arrogant.
If they want change, them it should start in their own countries.
You can't have it both ways. Follow the rule of law, otherwise what's the purpose of law if you will not, or cannot enforce them?
I am an American citizen first!

I am 57 years old.When I was approximately 10,there were commercials on t.v. that told aliens that they must register with the government by filling out a form at the Post Office.The government wanted to know where they were at.
Iwould venture to say that if this still existed,there would be a good possibility that Sept.11 would not have happened.

I am 57 years old.When I was approximately 10,there were commercials on t.v. that told aliens that they must register with the government by filling out a form at the Post Office.The government wanted to know where they were at.
Iwould venture to say that if this still existed,there would be a good possibility that Sept.11 would not have happened.

So what will it take to make the opposite point: that Americans want our laws enforced and our elected officials held responsible? I have no problem with the rally goers. They are just working within the system and advocating their position. I do have a problem with our politicians pandering to a large number of people in order to get votes. If the vast majority of Americans want our immigration laws enforced and they are not being enforced, it hardly seems like our politicians are acting in good faith if they do not honor that directive because they are serving their own self interest.

For the first time in days I agree with an article. There hasn't been a clear point as to what is goin on with all these marches. As a Hispanic citizen it is even harder to make sense of what is right and fair. However, the little girl's t-shirt hit the nail on the head. The issue at hand is people's dream for a better life. The question now is: How will the government handle these. By the way, were do people get the notion that undoncumented workers don't pay taxes? What they don't get is their income tax returns!

So, if illegals are given amnesty, will they be required to pay back taxes on monies they have earned? If they aren't paying, I see no reason why a citizen should be forced to pay. It might give someone the idea that our government is more interested in pleasing illegal aliens than serving its own population.

I agree with Ron" - why did these people skirt around the law in order to come to America? What are they hiding? I have no problem with immigrants - I do have a problem with *illegal* immigrants. If this "amnesty" goes through, how do we differentiate between a hard-working family man who came here illegally to hopefully give his family a better life and the serial killer wanted in Mexico who's hiding out in the U.S.? Not to mention, we'd better figure out a way to efficiently seal our borders before we say we're going to grant amnesty, or the illegal immigrants will start coming in droves.

I think the only fair way to handle this issue is to allow free and unrestricted immigration into the U.S. We should allow in anyone who is not a know criminal or terrorist into our nation. By offering automatic legal status to all, we prevent the creation of an exploitable class. The desire to employ illegal aliens is not based upon them working harder than legal workers, it is because they are an easily exploitable class. Most of these firms would not hire illegals if they had to pay them the market wage as well as fully comply with all labor laws. I think it is totally unfair and un-American to allow some in with a wink and nod (later to be ushered quitely to the head of the line) because they can sneak across a river, while others (like Hatians) are forcefully towed back to their home islands or put on planes back to their home countries. I personally know dozens of hard working IT, Engineers, Accountants, etc. that would love to work in America. They don't sneak in, they are trying to enter legally. To give amnesty to those who "cut in line" makes a mockery of our whole system. We will tell the would that our laws are total garbage because only the foolish follow them.

I am sorry, but our country is based on immigrants, no matter how you call it – legal or not. Pilgrims came here without any visas or green cards and built a great country. Would these happen if folks like you, who are too much concerned with word legal or illegal, would do anything possible not to let them in? What if Natives did not share food with Pilgrims (who were illegal immigrants according to your beliefs), would America be where it is today? I highly doubt it. Folks, do not forget own history and how this country has been built. You simply became what your ancestors were running from. You betraying American values and true meaning of United States. And some of you even dare to say you are religious people? Think what Jesus would do? Would he divide people into groups and think that different people should be treated differently? Whose side do you think he would take?

Part of what immigrants protest against is the lack of recognition of their contribution to this country and society. These people feed you, dress you, mow your lawn, build your houses and then you turn around and you tell them, you know what no matter how good of a person you are, you need to go to your country and starve. I am confident that most immigrants would have come legally to this country if they had a chance. The truth is however that many Latin American countries are excluded from the Green Card Lottery and thus people from these countries have no chance of getting a permenant residence this way.
Many people say - oh yeah my grandparents came here legally, so they are better than all of those illegals. Laws and policy change and people do the best of the current situation. I bet your grandparents too would have come here illegally if they were from Mexico and lived in 2006.
These immigrants are admirable people with admirable determination to live a better life and provide better life for their children. They are so determined that they are even ready to break the law to live their dream. I don't support breaking the law but in the end the benefit exceeds the cost and for many immigrants all the risks they take are worth it. If you should have any feelings towards them, it should be admiration because very few will risk their lives to secure a brighter future. It is easy for us to judge them sitting warm and cozy in our suburban homes but we need to look at the real picture before we judge them.

Couldn't have said it better - thank you. The irony is going to be hearing the complaints of the current batch of illegal immigrants when, after they become legalized, they begin losing their jobs to future illegal immigrants. And I'll be right there to remind them that anyone opposed to immigration is just a "hateful, selfish racist". And, yes, I'll conveniently leave out the word "illegal" just as they do now.

i think that they have a right to protest this
law because our country was founded by
immigrants . the jobs these people are doing
no american want to do there also working
lots of hours and little pay i think people are
confused about immigrants. alot of the time
this people can't go back and changa there country

I am an immigrant myself, a LEGAL immigrant. In my opinion, many of yesterday's demonstrators didn't even know what they were protesting for (amnesty? immigration reform? supporting immigrants? only the legal ones? US citizenship for everyone?).

Since I went the legal way which DOES take longer than just crossing a border under favour of night, I know it is possible to come into this country adhereing to its laws and regulations.

Which part of ILLEGAL don't people get? In the middle European country I come from, illegal immigrants get deported right away, unless they ask for asylum. Calling them "undocumented" instead does not change the fact that they broke the law.

I don't think the 11+ million illegals should be deported, but I like the following approach (guess it's called the Kennedy McCain Immigration Bill): let them file an application for residency (or naturalization, if they've been here for 5+ years and have been employed continuously, which might be difficult to prove, but hey, all legal immigrants had to come up with tons of paperwork supporting their applications), let them learn English (this is still the official language of this country, isn't it?), let them take civics classes, let them pay a penalty (again, which part of ILLEGAL do you folks not understand?).

I have realized my dream of immigrating to the US and I am working hard to build a new life, too. I love this country and am already looking forward to applying for citizenship. But I do also respect its laws!

I am an immigrant as well, but what hurts me I had to work hard and pay a lot of money to be able to get to this country. Granting amnesty to everybody who came here jumping over the fence will send very bad message. Instead of going to American Embassy I should buy airplane ticket to Mexico and jump the fence. My brother’s wife had to wait 5 years to legally enter to USA even though her husband was here legally. A lot of families do not survive the waiting period and end up divorced.

With the exception of Native Americans, we are all the products of an imperfect immigration process. Whether legally or illegally and whether from South America, South Africa, or South of the Border, many immigrants (like your parents and mine) merely come here with the hope of escaping poverty, tyranny, and a bleak future to build a new life in hopes of providing better opportunities for their family.
If we can spend BILLIONS to "liberate" a people in the middle east on what many see as an unjust (and unjustified) war, surely we can devote a fraction of our resources to improve working conditions for migrant farmers, enforcing a minimum wage, cracking down on industries that exploit the migrant and illegal workforce, streamline our immigration process, invest in education, and reevaluate the type of aid provided to foreign countries from which so many imigrants originate.

I am an immigrant, my parents too, my siblins are all Born red, white, and blue. We came Legally. My dad works for the City of Chicago administration, his cousin was the comptroller of the City of Chicago until he retired recently. He too an immigrant from Pakistan. Legally. I admire immigrants as this nation is ALL based on immigrants. Legal , lawful is the right way, however those living here for 10-15 years working paying taxes being ordinary citizens but not being "legal" is not right. If a child is raised American, he or she is more American than any new immigrant can be. legal or not.

I hope this debate can be solved understanding we cannot kick out people who've called this home for decades, and we cannt allow people to keep sneaking in.

I'm a legal immigrant who followed the process to migrate here to be with my wife. I was not pursuing any American dream or even a better life. The grass is not always greener on the other side, as I always say its just different grass. As someone from The Americas, the geographic area of land in the Western hemisphere originally inhabited by the Americas, I consider myself as do people in all these countries an American. America is a country founded by immigration, mostly illegal - although you can complain the natives suffered because they didn't have adequate border control to allow the influx of settlers from the other side of the world to live here.

But the issue is passe, they came, they're here now, the country dealt (and is dealing) with it. So as immigrants from Italy, Spain, Sweden etc came and enriched the country and realised the need for laws to control the population swell, so we need to recognize that these illegal immigrants are also here. No amount of finger pointing is going to change that, deal with it. Amnesty? I'm against it. I had to go through the process, so should they. Why does the process have to be so confusing, maybe we could help with that. But we need to bring these people out of the shadows so they don't continue to get exploited. The misconception that people have about illegal immigrants is that they live without paying taxes. They do, through some false documents and SSNs they pay taxes to some account out there, but they can never reap the rewards of social security etc. There are people who hire those and pay cash, those people knowingly seek out illegal immigrants to exploit them for cheap labour. That practice should be halted because it hurts everyone (except probably the people doing the exploiting).

Yesterdays rally was disappointing for me because it seemed to be about illegal Latin American immigrant rights. I'm neither illegal nor from Latin America. But I understood as the highschoolers especially spoke with passion about their dreams. Families that have been here so long have no home in their 'homeland' to return to, so deporting them is not an answer. Criminalizing them is not the answer either. I support making them pay a fine and check to see if they owe taxes or not and working out a payment plan for them. Then when we deal with those who are here, we can simultaneously attack the problem of border control.

To those who claim that illegals -- mostly from Mexico -- are only taking low-paying jobs that Americans won't do ...

I seem to remember construction being a very good job, a very high-paying job, in years past. But now that the Mexican immigrants can come in droves and work construction, it's become a low-paying job just for immigrants.

Nothing against the people, but ... it doesn't seem like they've done a great job of running Mexico. I think it would be damaging to keep allowing millions of them to come here.

Let's fix it so that people from Mexico have to go through the same steps as anyone else, from any other part of the world, to live here.

"When it comes to borders, most countries are tough. The same holds true for illegal immigrants. Try going to Mexico and saying, " Hey, I want to live here indefinitely, and if I can't get a job I want some kind of welfare, medical care, educational opportunity for my kids, and maybe even a pension plan."
Some guy with a mustache would say, "Hey gringo, you nuts?"
In truth, Mexico, while it has nice beaches and other tourist attractions, is not a very nice neighbor. Besides doing nothing to prevent its surplus citizens from sneaking into this country, it is a corrupt narco-state that pumps tons of drugs into this country. It's police and politicians-a really sleazy crowd-are owned by the drug bosses.
Is this the fault of the average workaday Mexican? Those honest folk who want to escape their miserable lives for the joys of living in this country.
Yes, in a way it is their fault. They've had their own country for many years, and if they allow themselves to be run by a bunch of corrupt pocket-stuffers, that's their problem.
They've had more than enough time and opportunity to revolt and march their sleaze-bag rulers to the wall-and, snap, crackle, pop-do away with them.
But what do they do? They put up with the crooks that try to sneak into this country to make a living working on a dead-chicken assembly line. You call that ambition?
If Mexico is sincere about wanting to improve itself, it would stop pushing drugs and border hopping. Instead it would invite to invade and seize the entire country and turn it into the world's greatest golf resort.
Let us be open about this. There is no reason for Mexico to be a mess except that it is run by Mexicans, who have clearly established that they don't know what the heck they're doing.
Just name one thing that Mexico has done this century that has been of any genuine use to the rest of the planet. Besides giving us tequila.
See, you can't. but if you are honest, you will admit that it is kind of a useless country. And before it's entire population sneaks across the border, we should seize it and make it a colony.
We should grab it, privatize the whole country, and turn a neat profit by giving Club Med the franchise."

Everyday, I work with individuals who are in the process of immigrating to this country legally. It is an expensive and time consuming process, with artificial quotas that make it extremely difficult for individuals from certain countries to be able to work here or gain permanent residency through legitimate channels. I think the only way we can stem illegal immigration, is to increase the availability of legitimate immigration into this country. Create laws that more readily allow workers from Latin America (and the rest of the world) to enter the U.S. to work and then strictly enforce deportation laws against those who are here illegally. There is no doubt in my mind that immigrants are essential to our economy, but illegal immigrants drive down wages, encourage employer abuse of safe work environment laws, and instantly create a group of individuals that are disenfranchised from governance and culture. We have laws for a reason, but at the same time we have to judge the reasonableness of those laws, and create interim solutions until we do.

I believe that the march was very moving but I also believe that they should grant the immigrants amnesty they deserve it they have already been here for a long time why are they going to kick them out now. No one works as hard as they will so i believe they should get there freedom.

To me the questions concerning immigration, border security, and "dreams" are not black and white issues, but are layered in gray. I can't supply an answer to this thorny problem, but I thought your column ("Immigrants' rallying point: Right to dream") pointed out one important fact: immigration is about hope for a better life. I am reminded of a scene from the movie "The Maltese Falcon," when the Ward Bond character lifts the "black bird" off a table and asks Sam Spade "What is it?": Spade replies, "It's the stuff that dreams are made of." That line might well describe the desperate plight of people who will risk jail, humiliation, and even death in order to guarantee themselves a better life. Deeper, more profound questions surround this issue than that of "taking jobs away from American citizens." I'm not smart or wise enough to offer any solutions, but substantive discussions between our governments, in which both sides are equal partners, might lead toward solutions.

Just so I am clear, are those of you who support the amnesty programs in support of giving amnesty to all or just the Mexicans? Should we open the border to all? Why not let in the low-cost computer programmers from India? Why not let in the low-cost assemblers from China to replace the union laborers? What jobs are safe?
We only outsource to those countries because Americans won't do the jobs for those wage rates (sound familiar?). But the cost of outsourcing from the corporation's perspective is the loss of oversight and familiarity of the US court system. Given the option, I think many companies would chose to import the workers rather than export the work.

So, should we apply it to everyone or just those who happened to have the good fortune of only being seperated by a river?

Immigrants do wonders for our workforce. The jobs they do for us and the gust which is done is commendable. But, i dont' understand, whey are the illegal immigrants working so hard to changet he US? Why don't they work to change the country which they are trying to flee? Instead of marching strong on our cities, why don't they rally and march in their own countries and bring changes there? I don't understand. At some point people have to stop running and have to stand up for their rights against corruptions in their own countries. US is no longer the safe haven it once was.

I saw three things on the news coverage that I found interesting. The first was the argument for illegal immigration based on whites conquering the Native Americans, the second was the argument that the US can't function without immigrants, and apparently especially without illegals and the third was the argument that breaking the law is ok if you are following your dream (cue Zorn). #1 is an ad hominem argument; #2 is a fallacy and #3 is absurd. In my heart of hearts, I one day dream to work without the yolk of taxes. Should I therefore break the law and not pay my taxes? Surely, Zorn couldn't criticize me.

I wll get the idea that you have something that I want, perhaps the TV set on which you watch the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon. I will enter your house illegally and take it. But as long as I wear a T-shirt with hand-lettered "Don't take my dreams away," it's OK, right?

In response to those who are blaming the employers: I respectfully disagree with you. This isn't about employers being evil or greedy. The global market demands providing more for less. If a manufacturer employs legal citizens and pays a decent wage and benefits to all their employees, the guy right down the street will undercut them on every deal by employing someone who is willing to work for less. Let's face it...a global economy dictates these hiring practices and it isn't going to change anytime soon.
Don't blame the employers; they are just pawns themselves.

I almost found myself agreeing with Eric Zorn. I usually don't because he takes so long to make a point in his manifestos that I lose interest and go to the Sudoku. But, once again, he starts off seemingly taking the practical approach - "what do the organizers want, there is nothing to deliver" and ends it with a provocative statement, his usual m.o. Okay, Eric. I'll bite. But, maybe you can try to address specific issues, as opposed to wrapping your arms around the feel-good position. 1. How do you go about legalizing the, say, 11,000,000 illegals supposedly here? 2. If you start this process, what do you do with the millions more that are currently in a queue for the legal process? 3. How do you address the millions more that are going to come streaming through the gates (or around them) knowing that there is now a fast-track? Even you have to acknowledge that there is a critical mass for allowing immigrants, legal or otherwise.

My brother in law came from the Philippines in 1992. He was separated from his wife and small child for five years while they waited for a visa so that they could join him. But that is the law of the land, enacted by the peoples' representatives, and so they abided by it.

Why do these marchers think they have a God-given right to come here, ignore the law of the land, and demand amnesty?

What is different about an illegal immigrant being here and enjoying the benefits of the economy without paying their way and a citizen who fails to pay income taxes for 10 years and then eventually gets caught? Both men's lives, and possibly families, could be harmed, but both also accepted the risks going into it, no?

If we're going to give amnesty to one illegal, you must give it to all. If you waive the immigration requirements, you must then grant all applicants for citizenship immediate rights. If you follow this course, you essentially have to declare that every person in the world has the right to all benefits of a US citizen. It sounds like a slippery slope, but if you're handing out dreams, why do only the ones who are here at the moment get the right to be fulfilled?

I am a citizen, follow our laws, have a job, and pay taxes. Why should those in this country illegally not follow our laws, but have a job and NOT pay taxes? My taxes pay for their healthcare and education. Why shouldn't they also have to pay for healthcare and education? Employers are the root of this problem because they hire illegal workers. Prosecute the employers, send the illegal "immigrants" back to their countries, and enact new immigration laws. I wish politicians would get a clue and do something about this instead of worrying whether it's "politically correct" or not. IT'S ILLEGAL!!

Did you know that the immigration laws of Mexico demand that those who enter illegally are subject to arrest and imprisonment?
Frankly, the demonstrations yesterday impacted me not a bit. Perhaps, if illegals were not taking
the menial jobs, my high-school and college aged sons could find jobs. And they would pay taxes on the wages and not send the money back to Mexico to stimulate THEIR economy. Illegals take much more than they contribute.

Its a sad day when people are led to erroneous conclusions based on only half of the story.
Leave out the word Illegal from the protest yesterday, and you are attempting to sway the opinion of the majority of the people in this country who are 1 or 2 generations US citizens who have an immigrant background.

Yet there is some truth to the fact that there are certain jobs that many will not want to do. Talk to a Watermellon grower and ask him about the people he hires at harvest time. And if there is anyone reading this who says that they'd do it, wouldn't last more than one day in the fields.

The solution to this issue will not be solved overnight or in 30 second sound bytes.

I have no problems with immigration other than the fact that if you are breaking the law you should pay the price. Our country was founded by immigration many many years ago. But, how was this done. Did just anyone come to the US? No only those who truly wanted a better life for themselves and those who were willing to adapt to the US way of life and mostly the language. Did they come freely, without having to go thru Ellis Island? NO!!!! I don't know about most of you, but maybe if you research your heritage you can find a copy of some relatives Naturalization papers from Ellis Island. Even after Ellis Island if someone want to come to the united states they had to go thru the proper channels. And what is really wrong with that? Ask yourself that question. If they want a better life then why do they have to break the law? That to me is not starting out on the right foot. And what is with us adopting Spanish as the MAIN Language in this country. For many of Centuries we have spoke ENGLISH in this country. But now if you don't speak Spanish you can't even order a hamburger at the local McDonalds. And I personally RESENT the fact that because of my last name (as you will see by the posting) that some one can call me and speak nothing but Spanish to me or send me Spanish magazines. THIS IS THE UNITED STATES.....and you should not assume anything by a last name. Why didn't we start to speaking Italian, Dutch, Norwegian, French (as they do in Canada)? Why do we have to take on SPANISH. That is because illegal’s don't want to learn the language they just want to take jobs away from US citizens and send the money back to Mexico so they can be considered rich. And how about the jobs... I know several College kids in my neighborhood that can't get jobs because of the illegal’s. Sure companies want to hire them because they will work for lower wages. But who really is paying the price. US Citizens are.... Our taxes go up to pay for Medicare that they get, our kids can't find good jobs. What gives them rights over our own.

If they want to be here then let them apply to be here. Do it right....no free ride. Make them abide by our laws, just as all of us have to abide by our laws. If we don't enforce this law...what other laws are going to be allowed to be broken. Murder....Oh they just want what the other one had so they took it....... Is that how we are going to be viewing our laws in the future.... Think about it. I mean really think. I'm proud of my country and what it has stood for all these year. But, what is it coming to?????

My impression is that the March was about several things:
1. Immigration reform that will allow illegals to be granted legal status and be put on a path to citizenship.
2. Proper reform of immigration law to recognize reality of the issue. Immigration and naturalization laws are notoriously difficult to work with.
3. Respect. Putting a human face on the issue. Showing that immigrants come from all walks and races, and they are generally hard-working people who want a better life for their family and want to be a part of this Nation. They are people, not criminals.
4. Worker's rights. So many immigrants, especially undocumented, are routinely exploited by their employers.

The fourth point may be the most important of all. Immigrants rights and worker's rights have always been closely intertwined. The Haymarket Square riots 120 years ago in Chicago were as much about exploitation of Irish and Eastern European immigrants as they were about the 40 hour work week. The Labor movement in this country was born from the immigrant rights movement in this country. It's appropriate that the biggest May Day demonstration in the US was in Chicago. Chicago was the birth place of the Labor Movement.

The Labor connection is what you guys in the media seem to keep missing.

I don't understand why so many pro-illegal immigrant supporters ask the question, "What would you do without us?". Put unemployed American citizens in those jobs maybe? And when employers cannot find people to work those low paying jobs maybe they will increase the pay. I feel it is morally wrong to allow illegal immigrants to stay in this country just for the cheap labor. It's an injustice to them and to us. I am also not seeing the organizers of these rallies reaching out to ordinary Americans. They say things like "Who will cut your lawn?". Gee, I don't know. Maybe I'll keep cutting my own lawn as always.

I am the daughter of Filipino immigrants who respected their adoptive country first and foremost by respecting its laws, including its immigration laws. I am not a xenophobe, I am a xenophile, but I believe you, like everyone else, have to follow the laws of the country you reside in whether you like them or not. I have countless friends from foreign countries who are highly capable, trained & talented in their respective fields who are struggling to stay in the United States legally. We should work on finding a better & enforcible immigration system, not reward those who proudly flout the current law even as the honest ones are forced to leave.
And yes, I do also believe that porous borders pose a security risk as well.

President Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on immigration in 1907: "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, and we have room for but one sole loyalty, and that is a loyalty to the American people."

My dream was to live in my hometown and grow old here. But now I am looking for a new place to live. The population in my area has increased significantly since 1990, most of it immigrants from Russia, the Ukraine, and other Eastern European countries. Along with the increase in people has come increases in density, traffic, property development, sales and property taxes, rent, cries of "no money" from government bodies, noise, deteriorating roadways, and crowds.

I want to move to a place that is similar to what my town was like before 1995. I want to be able to drive to the grocery store less than a mile from my home in the 10 minutes it used to take, instead of sitting through as many as 7 stoplights at the same intersection. I want to sleep through a night that isn't broken by the incessant noises of traffic, car accidents, and sirens resulting from the massive influx of vehicles in this once mid-sized town. I want to go to the library, the park, the store, without waiting in long lines, being jostled and shoved.

Is it so politically incorrect that I want to retain my American Dream? Is there a country I can immigrate to that is like what my town used to be? And will it take me and give me back everything I have lost?

If people can come to the United States, and my town, and be absorbed without causing harm to the people who are already here, then I fully support immigration. But if the influx of people makes a significant difference to the lives of those who are living in a place, who consider it their home, their life, their dream, then I think it is unfair of others to take this away. And it is unfair to consider it selfish of those already living in a place of trying to preserve their lives.

The issue or problem does start with the employer or actually with the consumer. The consumer wants cheap products and services. Manufacturer's are competing with cheap imports, the manufacturer's want productive, cheap labor so they can provide a cheaper product to the cost concsious consumer. If you deport all these workers prices for everything will go up and everyone will lose, the workers and the consumer. America needs these workers, most do receive a paycheck, if they receive a paycheck they are paying taxes, federal, social security, medicare. And, they also pay sales tax, real estate taxes (through rent). If you deport the workers, tax income will go down. The goverment should leave this issue alone, trying to fix it will only create more problems in the future.

One thing I have heard repeatedly is the mexican immigrants desire to "Have a better life" here in the US. My question is, isnt that possible in Mexico? It is an industrialized, capitalist, democratically elected country. Why aren't these people working to improve life in their own country? The same could be said for immigrants from Poland, Ireland and many other (although not all) countries.

Sr. I appreciate your article, but like most, they never touch on the real issue. Which is the leaders of this countries; Mex. Salvador,Guatemala, etc. The politicians get rich when they take office, instead of using the money to create more jobs. They assure their personal economy for years to come, while they at the same time assure that their constituents will have to go to America if they want to work for a living. The finger must be pointed at this leaders. Not at Bush, or republicans, or Americans. Those greatly responsible for this problems are our own leaders, and they even benefit from the money we send to our families. I resent my leaders in Mexico who dont care for us, their own people. And even have the cynisism of trying to demand the U.S.A. for respect for their people,when they themselves dont respect us. Sincerily, Pablo
P.S. Pres. Fox did not even have the decency to support moraly the U.S against the war on Terror and intimidation, morally he took the other's side, how fair or decent was that?

You ask what these immigrants want and you seem to have come up with some pretty good answers. But you fail to ask the other question of what we (the legal residents) want or expect from them. Does anyone reading this really wanna pay ten bucks for a maki roll in their local sushi joint? what about 20 bucks for a car wash? Let's get real here. It's not just them that want something. It's all of us.

My opinion for years has been that those most interested in legalizing the immigrants are only those who most benefit by their presence (obviously including business owners) - the wealthy who can afford the gardeners, maids, nannies. They are the ones who eat in the expensive restaurants that need the dishwashers and busboys. The wealthy are the ones who visit the resorts and spas where the illegals labor in the background. The Democrats need these souls legalized to vote for their party, which is not run by the common man but by the wealthy, think Kennedy. It’s easy to be virtuous when you’re far above the fray. Few of these people who are for amnesty/legalization have been forced out of their house of 12 years by the decline of the neighborhood - fearful of riding public transportation after being harassed, tired of watching more and more graffiti on the garages in their alley not get cleaned off, watching gang-banger teens hang under the viaduct half a block away, watching familiar businesses leave and not being able to read the signs on the new stores, and watching the elementary schools add trailer after trailer to accommodate all the children. Few of the pro-amnesty group are like my elderly in-laws, who have remained in their house of 55+ years, watch the tiny bungalow next door house up to 15 people at a time, and see the changing line-up of men who sleep in the unfinished garage next to a car come out into the yard in the morning to urinate against their chain-link fence. They then watch these same men cook and sell carnitas from the garage on the weekends. I’m sure few of the pro-amnesty group live, work or shop in a part of an Arizona city where there are dozens of males standing on street corners for hours during the day looking for work. I’ll be they don’t stop at a local convenience store for coffee and watch half a dozen men sitting on the curbs with bottles in brown paper bags walk off to urinate on the telephone booth next to the store. I’ll also wager they don’t know someone who wanted very much to work outdoors grooming a golf course but was driven out of the job because he didn’t speak Spanish. It’s easy to be a bleeding heart when your heart isn’t bleeding.

While the plight of illegal immigrants is certainly something that needs to be looked at very closely, we also have to look at our immigration laws as well as the policies behind them. Those laws were put in place for a reason. What good are laws if they are not enforced?

Maybe the time has come to look back on several immigration statutes and see if they need to be changed. However, if or until the law is actually changed, the laws we have need to be enforced. If you are here illegally, you should be deported. Laws are made to be enforced, and immigration laws are no different.

THEY ARE PUSHING ALL THE HOT BUTTONS AND IT IS GOING TO COME BACK TO BURN THEM. THEIR BASIC THESIS HOLDS AS MUCH LOGOS OR ETHOS AS THE MAN WHO MURDERED HIS PARENTS AND THEN ASKED FOR MERCY FROM THE COURT BECAUSE HE WAS AN ORPHAN. SPECIOUS AT THE BEST. THESE PEOPLE WHO LOWER WAGES OR TAKE JOBS FROM THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE A MINIMUM STANDARD OF LIVING, FAKE DOCUMENTS AND MAKE NO ATTEMPT GENERALLY TO LEARN COMPETENT ENGLISH (NOTED IN THE CENTRAL ILLINOIS AREA WHERE I LIVE) THEIR TRYING TO SULLY THE OFFICIAL NATIONAL ANTHEM WAS ANOTHER ILL ADVISED MOVE. IT JUST PROVES THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF BECOMING PART OF OUR ENGLISH CULTURE, BUT MAKING IT THEIR CULTURE. THE MEXICAN BORDER MAY END UP BEING OUR WEST BANK. WE MUST BE A SOVEREIGN NATION AND NOT ALLOW A FOREIGN NATION TO INVADE THIS COUNTRY. OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE CULPABLE FOR BENDING TO THE WILL OF THE CORPORATIONS WHO WANT PROFIT. THEY HAVE ALLOWED THIS SORE TO FESTER TO WHERE IT ENDANGERS OUR LIVELIHOOD. ALLOWING THEM 11 YEARS TO BECOME CITIZENS WILL ONLY PERMIT AMERICANS TO FORGET WHAT STANDARDS WERE SET, MORE ILLEGALS TO COME ACROSS A LEAKY BORDER AND THE SAME SITUATION OR WORSE THAT SOMEONE SET IN LAW 20 YEARS AGO.

I agree that legalizing these folks will not solve anything. Illegals will continue to flow through because fortifying the border will take years. The suddenly now-legal immigrant is entitled to better pay and health benefits. That's expensive!!

So what does the business entity do? It fires the legal and hires more illegals.

And round and round she goes. Where it stops, nobody knows!

Why is the US forced to change? Make Mexico change and get these people marching on their capital city and make their dreams come true where they were born. It is possible.

Unbelievable that people who entered this country illegally think they can DEMAND a change in our laws. I see legal immigrants making statements like "they love America". Baloney, "they love American money". That is it in a nutshell. President Fox has instructed these people to send the money home to their families. Documented speech. Any race of people that come here through legal channels are welcome, otherwise hit the road toad.

The people who complain about illegals from Mexico "cutting the line" and sneaking into this country while legal immigrants wait to do it "the right way" appear to believe that the Mexicans come skipping across the border with ice cream cones, waltzing in droves down a wide paved street. I wonder if they can understand the desperation that will spur people to walk a couple hundred miles across the desert in the middle of the summer, when the air temperature right above the ground pushes 120. Or to scrape together a couple hundred bucks to pay a coyote to cram them into a container truck, which may or may not deliver them to the place they thought they were going, and whose driver may or may not unlock the container and let them out before they asphyxiate or roast.

It's too complex a problem to be addressed by throw-away sound bites of either the "deport 'em all" or "give 'em all amnesty" variety. Did my desperate ancestors walk over here from Ireland and Bohemia? Nope, mainly because they couldn't walk across that ocean. Does that somehow make them--and, by extension, me--better than this generation's crop of desperate people looking for the chance to earn a living for their families? I don't think so.

Sanction the businesses that knowingly hire illegals to take advantage of a cheap labor pool? Absolutely--but don't naively assume there won't be direct effects on the economy. For most businesses, it's simple math, or at least one of those word problems from 8th grade algebra. Business B needs 3 workers in job X, two in job Y, and five in job Z. The available payroll is quantity P. For B to stay afloat, 3x + 2y + 5z =< P. Job X is physically taxing and Job Y leaves you smelling like a tallow plant. Take away a labor pool willing to do just about anything to survive and replace it with average American 19-year-olds unwilling to roll out of bed for $5.15, and you have some interesting business decisions to make.

With gas climbing over $3 in many parts of the country, how happy will people be to see consumer prices rise as well, to the often cited $5 head of lettuce? Maybe a guest worker program would be a solution, but that legislation would effectively create a permanent official underclass of cheap workers who, American laborers could logically argue, actually are being sponsored by the gummint to take American jobs.

Meanwhile, as our knees jerk in both directions, a couple hundred people continue to die every year making that long walk across the desert. Consider them felons if you want, call for them to be deported if you want, but don't shrug at the desperation that drives them to risk their lives to get here and then work their tails off once they do. That may be any number of things, but "lazy" ain't one of them.

So if they grant all these illegals amnesty, what about my friend who came here from South Africa the LEGAL way? Is the government going to refund all the fees he paid? Are they going to upgrade his greencard to a full citizenship?

By giving amnesty to these illegals, the government is losing out on a lot of fee money and also sending the message that it's better to just break the law than follow the rules. Not good. America is a country of laws. You can't just sneak in here, break the law, and expect us to give you anything.

If it's ok for my friend to wait his turn, these illegals can do the same.

I work in the hospitality industry doing work that liberals say we Americans don't want to do. My co-workers are either Hispanic or Chinese and they keep to themselves and talk their language in their onclaves.

When orders are given in English, they stand there like a doe in headlights and pretend they understand.

But if there was anywhere that I faced utter and complete discrimination it was from the Mexican workers. They are fiercely territorial about their job there - and any American that gets on board is seen as someone that will take their job away.

They have gone out of their way to make me feel uncomfortable - bordering on harassment and racism.

Don't tell me these folks are friendly, god-fearing, peaceful or full of dreams. They're full of spite and bitterness that you are American, speak fluent English and they cannot. And given any chance, they'd step all over you to get you out.

I would like to congratulate the immigrants on holding a public demonstration, one of the most sacred rights held by Americans. I recommend that they and their leadership speak with some marketing consultants. I too did not see a unified message by the rally. I doubt many people did except those spanish speakers as virtually everything was chanted, sung or written in spanish. When one demonstrates in a country in a language other than that which most of the residents speak it makes it hard to get the message across. In fact I think that demonstrating for "immigrant rights" in Spanish will do more to inspire backlash than to inspire those in power to grant them these "rights" that they do not have. What rights do these immigrants not have? The right to vote may be one but I don't think anyone is ready to give anybody the right to vote without having earned citizenship. Until then I think our immigrants, especially the illegal ones, should enjoy their right to work without paying taxes, the right to a free education, the right to free medical care, the right to drive a car without a license or insurance and the right to have the rest of the country to cater to them and translate all documents into their language while the rest of us obey the rules. I would also recommend that when demonstrating in the U.S. for more "rights" that one demonstrators not carry signs that say things like "I researched my history and realized I was already home" with a map of the U.S. and Mexico showing Mexican territory including all states between Texas, California and Washington. In most other countries they call that a rebellion and people are shot on sight. Remember that even without U.S. citizenship you have more rights than you already realize. Stop acting like spoiled children and enjoy them.

Throughout every comment, all I see is people mention the Mexican border and Mexicans, Mexicans, Mexicans. Are you all still under the misconception that all immigrants are Mexicans?

It's a pitty, this tells me you were not really looking at the people, and like always, you continue to generalize all immigrants. Don’t just blame Mexico for US problems, it is very easy to blame all of our problems to Mexico, what about all other immigrants that do not go through Mexican borders, the ones that come from China, India, etc?

Not all of yesterday’s marchers were Mexican. Yes, most were of Latino background, which is different than MEXICAN. Latino includes everyone from Mexico to the south of its borders and corresponding islands. Mexico's economy has a lot to do with the Mexicans that come to the US illegally, but we also have to consider the economies of other countries such as Colombia, El Salvador, Venezuela, Argentina, etc. There are also the Cubans who are given a better opportunity as long as they step on solid US ground.

To the person who wrote about the Alamo, I would recommend a spelling class, English is not my first language and even a third grader would no “Alomo” is not correctly spelled.

I have heard arguments from people who are opposed to this whole issue arguing that immigrants are not willing to learn the language and adapt to the culture. I can tell you that is not true, I learned English and I speak it fluently. I hold on to my culture because if you really look at it, in order for me to adapt to the US culture, there has to be one, and so far, I have not found it. I have found that we celebrate St. Patrick’s Day, which is not really American; it is Irish. I also celebrate Thanksgiving, which was originated by…humm…immigrants. As far as I am concerned, I have embraced the culture as well, but I have kept the best of both cultures, which makes this country even better, it has the best of different cultures.

I love and honor two flags; one represents the land where I was born and part of my childhood, the other represents my present and my future.

To those who support us, thank you, you really understand and know the history of this great country, it was made of immigrants and it will continue to be made up of immigrants.

Why get stuck on these buzzwords? "Illegal!, Rule of Law, Took Our Job!"

It is "illegal" to steal a loaf of bread but if it is done to feed your family I think alot of us would find it the correct action. If people are forced to look for work and opportunities in a strange, foreign, and unwelcoming land just in order to feed their families then focusing on the "legality" of this issue is the wrong approach. It doesn't help if a country made up of former "illegal" free slaves, Colonial "traitors", and communist "refugees" suddenly want to forget that they too had to work to change the law in order to be recognized as a legal citizen.

I would bet the majority of the marchers aren't even illegal immigrants. They are AMERICAN CITIZENS who want to CHANGE the LAW so that there are such things as illegal residents who provide so much to this society.

I think its a shame that the only major movement in this country, even bigger than the anti-war rallies, in the past 2-3 decades is compromised of non-citizens and their "legal" supporters. Too bad we can't get the apathetic natives here to march for anything anymore and are being upstaged in democratic reforms by "foreigners".

I am a Mexican legal immigrant. I came to the US on a student visa when I was 20, got my B.S. and M.S. degrees in Engineering and am now a mother and live in the suburbs. I'm planning to go to law school next year. I'm living my american dream. My husband (who's also here legally with a work visa) and I are tax-paying law-abiding residents, on the path of permanent residency and then, citizenship. I am thankful to this country and proud to see our son grow up to be a good American. I feel a kind of solidarity with all these illegal immigrants who are trying to improve their lives, but cannot condone their demands and rallies. It's not fair to all of us who worked hard to do things the right way that these people all of a sudden jump ahead. If they are already taking unfair and illegal advantage of this country, how dare they demand more!?

I am just amazed at the arrogance these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS have demanding that our government give them rights???!!! Um hello you are here illegally so you should not have any rights. Here is a idea why don't all the Mexicans get together and stand strong in their own country against their lazy President Vincent Fox and demand he make conditions there better that will solve the US problem with all the illegals because they will definitely go back home. It really amazes me at how proud these people are carrying their native flag but demanding rights in the U.S. And just a hint you guys make it harder for americans not better. AMERICANS ARE NOT LAZY PEOPLE WE JUST REFUSE TO WORK FOR SLAVE WAGES!!!!!!

It is amazing that in the United States of Amnesia we ignore that our very privileged present is built upon the past that everytime I look reveals more and more exploitation and abuse of different people less powerful than her. The immigrant dream wether legal or illegal, made this country as powerful as it is, from the American Revolution where immigrant blood was shed to the current Iraq war where such blood continues to be shed for her ideals.

We cannot ignore that our privilege is based on exploitation as we as a whole allow our economy to unfairly compete with smaller economies, our worse when our military might goes unchecked in the world as the past (Mexico, Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua, Chile, Guatemala) and present (Iraq) surely testify.

Through legal immigration we get the world's best students who in turn help drive innovation, which in turn drives the economy. We get to choose who comes in and who does not into our national wealthy gated community (when compared to most countries). But the choice everyday people who were "less fortunate" to not have been born to a wealthy or middle class family in their own country have is in regard to their survival and the survival of their right to struggle for a better life wherever it may be available. The entire immigrant movement is about the impoverishment of everyday people's dreams all over the world and while we (Americans) might build walls, erect state of the art border facilities, and pass laws to criminalize them even more and deny services to them and their kids, this will never be enough to crush people's dreams.
Yes we can make them foreigners and dehumanize them through laws meant to secure our eroding middle class and preserve our current upper class wealth. But who are we to deny a person's right to struggle for their own dignity and right to live. Do we say: " Sorry poor farmer but you have to go back and get in line if you want to come in, I don't know how your going to afford your visa, (don't care), I don't know how your going to educate and feed your kids, (dont' care), I don't know how you'll afford basic services, (don't care) and I don't know where you'll invest your sweat and blood till then (don't care) but we are a nation of laws and you messed up for being who you are and not playing by OUr rules...."

This issue and the laws we create to deal with it will reflect how it is that we as a Country deal with the most vulnerable, exploited underclass that has always been an important cog in the American Machine. Like prisoners in a golden cage they wait and see how our government will deal with them. The solution has to be very creative and it needs to affirm the humanity of all of us if we are not to succumb to the temptation to make criminals out of hard working people who want to weave their dreams into our society. My opinion is that we need to bring out the best in each other if we are to rise and help lead a world where poverty, fear and frustration (all of which we are connected to) are rampant.

Times have changed since the pilgrims and/or the immigration of our ancestors. Back then, there was room for the influx of immigrants. Now the US is becoming overpopulated, and our government, health care, jails, welfare, homeland security, INS, etc. are overwhelmed because of this.

We have immigration laws to limit the number of immigrants for this reason. The laws don't exist just for the fun of it.

To those arguing that the illegals are just doing whatever it takes to better themselves, I pose this question. What should we do if everyone, or even half or a quarter of the world decided to do the same? Do you not think there aren't billions of people who would love to come live in the US? What makes the current 11 or 14 million illegals a higher priority than those others who are trying to obey the law?

The bottom line is we have the laws for a reason, and they cannot be disobeyed just because the immigrant can't get in legally. I couldn't get into bars legally when I was 19 and it was not okay for me to sneak in illegally. It's the same fundamental concept.

Enough already! Secure the borders then deport the illegals back to their country of origin. If they want to re-enter the U.S., they can attempt to do so legally. That can then be their dream: to one day live in the U.S. legally, much as it was for thousands of LEGAL immigrants who built our country. Furthermore, American-born children of illegals should not be granted automatic citizen status, either.

How can any intelligent thinker believe it is right to reward law-breakers with rights, amnesty, and/or social services? It's time to strengthen our immigration laws, and then actively enforce them.

You fail to mention the issue of whether the illegal immigrants want to become American citizens. I heard a great piece on NPR a couple weeks ago about this issue. The bottom line in that piece was that the illegals just want to make money here and eventually return to Mexico. So if this is in fact the case, as the NPR piece asserted, most illegal immigrants just want to be here for the better cash. Amnesty or some sort of citizen path won't work. A guest worker program would, but why should American citizens be subsidizing Mexican citizens. The people who immigrated here legally want to be here. The people who come here illegally, for the most part, don't.

Your statement below is way off base. Why are your 2 ways to deal with the problem the only ones? I'm a poor working class stiff who isn't a genius but here's my thought on how to deal with the problem.

You enforce the law. Crackdown on employers and secure the border by any means. You then offer a limited term guestworker status for those in country illegally to continue working. After this time they are to leave.

If people don't leave when thier time is up they have no work. If I couldn't get a job here I'd take my savings and move back home.

Oh well, I'm not a rocket scientist but this seems to be the best way to resolve the problem. But you MUST secure the borders and enforce hiring laws.

_____________________________
.........But, yes again, we're going to have to get over that because the alternative is either a harrowing program of deportation or a feeble program of continuing to look the other way..........

The reason illegal immigrants take these jobs instead of American citizens is because the jobs pay less. The reason the jobs pay less is due to the fact there is an extremely high amount of cheap (illegal) labor. Basic economics here. Generally, employers will attempt to pay employees as little as possible to get the work done. So, when you increase the number of potential employees, wages and benefits decline (ie. The lack of health care for Walmart employees). Minimizing illegal immigration can only drive wages up, providing a better quality of life for current citizens and better jobs for middle class America. Contrary to pro-amnesty propaganda, most food service workers are American citizens.

The simple fact: Immigrants are here to stay. Illegal or legal. You cannot deal with such a massive problem using deportations. What else can you do? You can legalize those that are here and protect the borders from further infiltration. Hispanics have surpassed any other minority in the US, and the US government and its people would do well to remember that.
If the problem is with the Mexican government, that problem has been there for a while now. No one can expect a povertised, uneducated, fed up population to not want a way out. Who has the strength, support, and resources to change such chronic problems as exist in Mexico? Not common people like you and I, or them. It's much easier said than done.
Who were the marchers? They were families, not criminals. They didn't sit in Mexico, hatch a plan to take over US jobs, and come here to implement their evil schemes. Like a young girl's sign said: "No jobs...No food...No money...No education...What would YOU do? IMMIGRATE!"

I was watching the news and noticed alot of people arguing that we are all human beings who deserve to be treated with equality. If that is the message/theme it would make even more sense to go back to your own country and march for human rights and equality...to your own government. The illegal immigrants have it so good here that they actually have the misperception that they have the same rights as those of us who are here legally - that is reason enough to send them home. I think the fact they were allowed to carry on with the march in every city was a slap in the face to the US for the mere fact that we are allowing people who shouldn't even be here to practice the rights our soldiers have fought to keep. To those who should be deported: I'm sorry that it breaks up your family, but I'm more sorry that you didn't think of your family when you came here illegally. Don't use your family as an excuse now - you put them in this position to begin with. Take that "pride" you all displayed yesterday and set-up rallys in your own country - show the US what you are all about. If you want to stick it to us by boycotting goods and services for one day - show us the real effect by getting out of here and creating a better, more powerful country that we all want to go to for better opportunities...you are all capable.

We cannot hang the American flag without offending people anymore - this is America and you came here under your own free will - follow the rules and be happy you're here.

I am an immigrant. I agree that immigrants, legal or illegal, are major contributors ecomoically and socially to this country. This country is built by immigrants. However, I don't agree to give the "amnesty" to all the illegal immigrants becuase this will be totally unfair to those people who are waiting in the INS hell trying to get here legally. It also sends the wrong message to people and invites more people to get here illegally. If the government really want to do this right, it should grant the legal residency to all qualified people who are waiting to get here LEGALLY, completely revise the immigration law and tear down the INS and start it over fresh again. Then you can invite all the illegals to apply for the legal residency without asking them to leave this country first. But I think that is too much to ask for the government, especially this Bush administration.

Really loved it when loudmouth Father Pfleger riled up the crowd and then was followed by some bull from the Nation of Islam. Of course, our "next" President, Barack Osama had to make a pandering appearance too. I was waiting for a Vegan advocate to come up next.

You lost me at the end. Doing illegal things shouldn't be awarded. Sorry but most people don't feel like illegals should be given a free pass. They should go through the whole process of becoming a citizen.

Im a legal immigrant, so what?? I feel sad about my comunity, It is sad to see how SOME people react and say heartbreaking things on tv. The bottom line is not the word legal or illegal, it is a hiding racism in america.

Some people dont want to recognize that "mexicans" (latino workers) are equals in our communities.

This is a very difficult situation but for politicians they better put things together and start to work soon. We normal people,professionals, hardworkers,good persons,we need to understand that illegal immigrants are persons no matter what color of skin they have.

50-60 years ago, SOME people in europe thought that hardworking, money savers jews were the cause of their problems."They were smart, they were hardworkers, they were immigrants"......THEY JUST KILLED THEM ALL.....

I'm sorry but where was INS??? I feel bad for the immigrants but yet I'm now getting really angry that they are trying to turn this into Mexico! Isn't that the country they hated living in so much that they risked life and limb and severed family ties to get away from? Now they want to have a Spanish version of our National Anthem? Hello-o-o this is America...the last I knew we speak English here..nothing wrong with being bi-lingual but learn the main language and use your mother tongue between yourselves. I'm not just complaining about Mexicans I'm talking about all the immigrants that are coming here to get away from the bad things in their countries and then want us to bend over backwards for them! Shouldn't it be enough that we have given them a good place to "start" over without us having to change for them!!! Now don't get me started on the ACLU or the NCAA! I'm really tired of all of the "polictical" correctiveness taken to far and all of the values and beliefs that this wonderful Country was based upon is slowly being taken over by the minorities...This is a Christian and English speaking Country....but we do allow you to follow your religions just quit messing with MINE!! It's Christmas..not Holiday time, it's Easter, not Spring Day....do you get my drift?? My family immigrated to this Country in the 1690's and have fought for these rights and beliefs as does my son now serving in the USMC!!

You have to get to the root of the problem, the savage inequalities between North and South. You see, people usually like to live in the land of their ancestors, and move only when desparate.

Lesson Two: You have to change US agriculture and trade policy that dumps our farm products in Mexico at less than their cost of production, creating millions of landless peasants. Why do you think Mexico City is the largest urban center of unemployed in the world?

That's just for starters. But its measures like these that point in the right direction, even if they hurt the low-road sector of capital in our midst and raise our supermarket prices by five percent.

Lesson Three: Next, get rid of the obstacles to unionization of our workforce. If you try to organize a union now, you're fired. This gives the employers free hand to do as they please, set wages as they please, hire and fire whoever they want, from wherever they want, as they please. You want a country without unions? Well, a low-wage, low-skilled labor force is what you get.

Everyone says globalization is inevitable. Meaning US capital should be free to go wherever and do whatever. Well, there's more to it than that, since a law of the universe is that everything is connected to everything else. In Grant Park yesterday you saw the human face of globalization on your doorstep, since you can't globalize capital markets without also globalizing labor markets.

Lesson Four: There are rational solutions to this problem. But step one is that Americans have to stop demanding free lunch and put aside a childish notions that they can deport ten million people, and that they can have their cake and eat it, too.

The sooner folks stop venting and whining, and start thinking like compassionate adults, the better off we'll be.

Now to a real but related problem: finding some political leaders with both wisdom and courage.

The best thing we could do is to advise the Mexican Parliment that we are sending a bill for about 10 B as in Billion to cover half the costs of Illeagal Immigration. If that does not fly perhaps we can advise them that we are moving the border 10 miles south of where it is now to act as a buffer zone in Mexico to aid in hindering any immigration. Another idea..build a big fence the cost is a lot less than present expenditures.

The reason immigrants come to this country does have to do with a dream for a better life but it is also impacted by the role that the U.S. plays in the economy and policitcs of the country of origin. One small example is that of NAFTA. It opened the U.S. Mexicn border to trade and now many Mexican corn farmers are out of business because IL and other major U.S. corn producers have flooded the world market with U.S. subsidized corn. We cannot ignore that the U.S. contributes to the success or failure of the economies of other countries and that pushes people out.

Also, just a reminder that immigrants pay sales taxes every day. Many also pay income taxes, unemployment comp and social security. Those who are undocumented cannot claim their tax refunds, unemployment benefits, or social security benefits so that is money left in the gov't pot. Please stop denying the economic contributions of immigrants.

I am among the many Americans who are "conflicted" about the whole immigration issue, because among other things my own grandfather came legally from Croatia/illegally from Canada a hundred years ago. One of those "dirty little secrets" that lots of second-and third-generation families don't like to talk about.

Also, with regard to legalization, as a real estate professional I am aware of a little-known method of obtaining property through "open and notorious" residence. That is, someone "squats" on a parcel of land without purchasing or leasing, but after 7 years of inhabiting without any interference from the presumed owner of the property, the "squatter" can claim ownership rights from a court. Similarly, there has been a long tradition of "common-law" marriage in which a couple were presumed to be husband & wife if they lived together or a certain number of years and had children together. Why not a similar "common law" approach to citizenship for a certain number of people for a certain number of years, while we put into place a new, permanent system?

About "Change of Subject."

"Change of Subject" by Chicago Tribune op-ed columnist Eric Zorn contains observations, reports, tips, referrals and tirades, though not necessarily in that order. Links will tend to expire, so seize the day. For an archive of Zorn's latest Tribune columns click here. An explanation of the title of this blog is here. If you have other questions, suggestions or comments, send e-mail to ericzorn at gmail.com.
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Contributing editor Jessica Reynolds is a 2012 graduate of Loyola University Chicago and is the coordinator of the Tribune's editorial board. She can be reached at jreynolds at tribune.com.