Wow, that was quick. Do you not even realize how you look right now? Go back and reread the thread. Follow the arguments and names. Look at what was said by whom and what they stood for. Then realize that you don't have to agree about every little thing to be courteous in a conversation...

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

Wow, that was quick. Do you not even realize how you look right now? Go back and reread the thread. Follow the arguments and names. Look at what was said by whom and what they stood for. Then realize that you don't have to agree about every little thing to be courteous in a conversation...

I know you and your girlfriend attacked me over a comment I made concerning an American supporter of terrorism and poster girl for homicide attacks. What does that make you guys? I have no respect for those who sympathize with 'martyrs.'

I know you and your girlfriend attacked me over a comment I made concerning an American supporter of terrorism and poster girl for homicide attacks. What does that make you guys? I have no respect for those who sympathize with 'martyrs.'

Attacked, by saying the sentiment was in bad form? Respect for the dead, no matter who they are is a core value of most moral people.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

I don't see any scenario where N. Korea would get involved. They aren't ready to die as martyrs, as many in Iran are. I am sure they also realize we can simultaneously bomb them, as well as Iran. Their 'tests' were inconclusive, so I doubt they have a bomb yet. They are looking for appeasement, nothing more.

I don't think it is likely any radiological material has been smuggled into and transported within the US. There is a vast system of sensors- both out to sea, on the highways and through various other means which would have picked up such smuggling. The most likely scenario would be a dirty bomb made with medical waste, but we keep pretty good track of that.

Not all successful or ongoing operations make the press.

I'd love to see some of that tech that can detect hidden nuclear material covering even as far as "out to sea". Do you have links? There's no doubt at all that Iran could produce large quantities of chemical and biological dirty bombs, they really don't need to rely on medical waste for them, especially US medical waste.

NK may not want to be brought into it, but given their ties to Iran and the torpedo affair they may not get a choice.

Not everything makes the news I agree, so you could be right. I think it's far more probable though that a successful interception of dirty bombs would be too much for any US president not to want to flaunt as their success. They might keep it under wraps so they can bring it to the publics attention and swing public opinion at a critical time, but that would suggest that there wasn't an interception during Bush's terms.

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

I'd love to see some of that tech that can detect hidden nuclear material covering even as far as "out to sea". Do you have links? There's no doubt at all that Iran could produce large quantities of chemical and biological dirty bombs, they really don't need to rely on medical waste for them, especially US medical waste.

NK may not want to be brought into it, but given their ties to Iran and the torpedo affair they may not get a choice.

Not everything makes the news I agree, so you could be right. I think it's far more probable though that a successful interception of dirty bombs would be too much for any US president not to want to flaunt as their success. They might keep it under wraps until so they can bring it to the publics attention and swing public opinion at a critical time, but that would suggest that there wasn't an interception during Bush's terms.

A friend on mine at SAIC helped develop a system which Coast Guard vessels carry. Within a reasonable distance they can detect radiological material aboard cargo ships, without having to board and inspect, or inspect containers at the dock.

I don't have hard documents on this machine, but here are a couple links-

I find it rather amusing how Steve called you my girlfriend. I don't think he has any idea of how far apart we are in so many of our views. Though, I guess he looks at the board and sees just two users: him and not him.

So really, it's no surprise that he can't fathom how someone could on one hand doubt the validity of that woman's martyrdom and disagree with what is done in her name but also not have to spew venom in the descriptions of her--especially when we are dealing with a very contentious issue that doesn't need more inflammatory language to further alienate the other side.

If it's any wonder that there's no peace in this world, it's because there are too many Steves out there on both sides of any issue shouting inappropriate, ignorant, and profane things at each other so loud as to drown out any cries for reason and understanding by those who feel left standing on the sidelines unable to change anything for the better.

Seriously, the Steves in this world just need to go away. Have an island somewhere away from the rest of us and leave us the hell alone.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” -Sagan

I find it rather amusing how Steve called you my girlfriend. I don't think he has any idea of how far apart we are in so many of our views. Though, I guess he looks at the board and sees just two users: him and not him.

So really, it's no surprise that he can't fathom how someone could on one hand doubt the validity of that woman's martyrdom and disagree with what is done in her name but also not have to spew venom in the descriptions of her--especially when we are dealing with a very contentious issue that doesn't need more inflammatory language to further alienate the other side.

If it's any wonder that there's no peace in this world, it's because there are too many Steves out there on both sides of any issue shouting inappropriate, ignorant, and profane things at each other so loud as to drown out any cries for reason and understanding by those who feel left standing on the sidelines unable to change anything for the better.

Seriously, the Steves in this world just need to go away. Have an island somewhere away from the rest of us and leave us the hell alone.

So no date tonight?
we may disagree but I try to keep the issues I disagree about separate from the common ground. Even with sego and hands an such. Admittedly, some make it harder than others.

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

I'm not sure that the US could neutralize Iran without troops on the ground at some point. If that happened I don't see how they could win. It would be a prolonged extension of the Afghan conflict but with no borders.

They'd be vulnerable on many fronts from many different threats; Islamists, Taleban, Turkish State army, Iranian Stare forces...quite possibly some home-grown resistance or maybe not....but it not cut and dried by any means.

I'm not talking about invading and occupying/regime change.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Are you for real because you sure don't sound like it? I'm sorry but that's like something a 16 year old would say in mommy's basement when he got time on the computer. It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter and doesn't do anything for you credibility on said subject.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

Add more to the debate. This is from the Article "Obama's Timidity and Deaths at Sea"
By RAY McGOVERN

Israels Attack Illegal; What Now?

Craig Murray, a former British ambassador and Foreign Office specialist on maritime law (and VIPS member), has just weighed in with a helpful description of two clear legal possibilities, which take into account both international law and the Law of the Sea:

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists in international waters.* The applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.* So in this case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the attack by Israeli commandos falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime. Possibility two is that, if the killings were not military actions authorized by Israel, they were then acts of murder and fall under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.* It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation and to initiate any prosecutions.* Israel would be obliged by law to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. As an Army infantry/intelligence officer and later a CIA analyst, he spent almost 30 years in intelligence work. He is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).

Add more to the debate. This is from the Article "Obama's Timidity and Deaths at Sea"
By RAY McGOVERN

Israel’s Attack Illegal; What Now?

Craig Murray, a former British ambassador and Foreign Office specialist on maritime law (and VIPS member), has just weighed in with a helpful description of two clear legal possibilities, which take into account both international law and the Law of the Sea:

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists in international waters.* The applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.* So in this case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the attack by Israeli commandos falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime. Possibility two is that, if the killings were not military actions authorized by Israel, they were then acts of murder and fall under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.* It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation and to initiate any prosecutions.* Israel would be obliged by law to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. As an Army infantry/intelligence officer and later a CIA analyst, he spent almost 30 years in intelligence work. He is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).

Good source. Ray McGovern... one of the rare voices of sense in a D.C. wilderness of insanity and lies.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Add more to the debate. This is from the Article "Obama's Timidity and Deaths at Sea"
By RAY McGOVERN

Israels Attack Illegal; What Now?

Craig Murray, a former British ambassador and Foreign Office specialist on maritime law (and VIPS member), has just weighed in with a helpful description of two clear legal possibilities, which take into account both international law and the Law of the Sea:

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists in international waters.* The applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.* So in this case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the attack by Israeli commandos falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime. Possibility two is that, if the killings were not military actions authorized by Israel, they were then acts of murder and fall under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.* It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation and to initiate any prosecutions.* Israel would be obliged by law to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. As an Army infantry/intelligence officer and later a CIA analyst, he spent almost 30 years in intelligence work. He is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).

This is lunacy. Israel instituted a naval blockade. The ships attempted to run said blockade. In response, the IDF boarded them. The commandos were attacked, and fought back. The result was loss of life.

A war crime? Dude, get real. You've bought the "poor humanitarian aid flotilla with peaceful peace-seekers" line. These people tried to run a naval blockade, then attacked boarding soldiers. I personally think they're lucky that Israel didn't blow the whole ship out of the water.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Are you for real because you sure don't sound like it? I'm sorry but that's like something a 16 year old would say in mommy's basement when he got time on the computer. It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter and doesn't do anything for you credibility on said subject.

They are the ones crying about my posts. They should ignore them, as should you.

I personally think they're lucky that Israel didn't blow the whole ship out of the water.

I think they're lucky Israel didn't too.

Peaceful hippies or hardcore radicals - doesn't matter either way. ANYONE opposing Israel is damn lucky they don't get 'blown out of the water'.

If you're really unlucky (ie Palestinian) you might even get 'wiped off the map'....though to be fair that's ok because even though it can happen Israel would NEVER use that phrase...we all know what you SAY trumps what you DO every time even if what you do is murder or perhaps even if you do nothing at all.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Peaceful hippies or hardcore radicals - doesn't matter either way. ANYONE opposing Israel is damn lucky they don't get 'blown out of the water'.

If you're really unlucky (ie Palestinian) you might even get 'wiped off the map'....though to be fair that's ok because even though it can happen Israel would NEVER use that phrase...we all know what you SAY trumps what you DO every time even if what you do is murder or perhaps even if you do nothing at all.

Anyone attempting to run a legal blockade deserves to get blown out of the water.
If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any Palestinians.

Anyone attempting to run a legal blockade deserves to get blown out of the water.
If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any Palestinians.

Israel does not own international water - think we went over that...I know you probably think they do or should but they don't.

And Hamas are a democratically elected Party - think we went over that too...I know you probably think they aren't or 'deserve what they get' (I can understand that - I think certain people should 'get what they deserve' too) but that don't make it so.

Maybe you should stick to the juvenalia you have been excelling at with the posters above. You seem out of your depth here.....stick to your core strengths...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad

Israel does not own international water - think we went over that...I know you probably think they do or should but they don't.

And Hamas are a democratically elected Party - think we went over that too...I know you probably think they aren't or 'deserve what they get' (I can understand that - I think certain people should 'get what they deserve' too) but that don't make it so.

Maybe you should stick to the juvenalia you have been excelling at with the posters above. You seem out of your depth here.....stick to your core strengths...

I take it you have not read or understood article 51 of the UN Charter?

Democratically elected party or not, they have no right to run a legal blockade.

Anyone attempting to run a legal blockade deserves to get blown out of the water.
If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, there wouldn't be any Palestinians.

Notice what happened in Lebanon in 2006, and similarly in Gaza last year? Israel could have easily flattened both regions and killed every living thing, human and animal, without even resorting to nukes... but in each case, they held off, after doing a heck of a lot of damage and killing a lot of innocent people.. and then... arbitrarily withdrew.

They are subjugating their neighbors on the drip.... nothing too drastic as to get the entire world against them, but instead, just underneath the degree of "action that the US government could not support". The Israeli leadership is extremely skilled at juggling ... they know exactly how far they can go, and what their limits are. In theory, they are quite capable of "wiping out the entire Palestinian population" within one week.... and if they could, they surely would. However, such a M.O. could scupper the Zionist dream of creating a Greater Israel in the Middle East. When boiling a frog, do it slowly, incrementally.

*

I would imagine that Craig Murray is way more qualified to venture an opinion on this incident than anyone here on this board. Furthermore, despite an awareness of the mandate to exercise POLITICAL CORRECTNESS when talking about Israel.. he still criticizes their actions as being illegal. He could have so easily weaseled out and appeased the entrenched DC/Whitehall viewpoint.

We the public deserve an honest complete review of the facts with scientific interpretation and implications as to what really happened on 9/11. Bill Binney, Former senior technical director, NSA.

Notice what happened in Lebanon in 2006, and similarly in Gaza last year? Israel could have easily flattened both regions and killed every living thing, human and animal, without even resorting to nukes... but in each case, they held off, after doing a heck of a lot of damage and killing a lot of innocent people.. and then... arbitrarily withdrew.

They are subjugating their neighbors on the drip.... nothing too drastic as to get the entire world against them, but instead, just underneath the degree of "action that the US government could not support". The Israeli leadership is extremely skilled at juggling ... they know exactly how far they can go, and what their limits are. In theory, they are quite capable of "wiping out the entire Palestinian population" within one week.... and if they could, they surely would. However, such a M.O. could scupper the Zionist dream of creating a Greater Israel in the Middle East. When boiling a frog, do it slowly, incrementally.

*

I would imagine that Craig Murray is way more qualified to venture an opinion on this incident than anyone here on this board. Furthermore, despite an awareness of the mandate to exercise POLITICAL CORRECTNESS when talking about Israel.. he still criticizes their actions as being illegal. He could have so easily weaseled out and appeased the entrenched DC/Whitehall viewpoint.

Has the UN declared the blockade illegal? With the exception of The US and Russia, pretty much the entire world is against Israel. That was the purpose of the flotilla.

Israel does not own international water - think we went over that...I know you probably think they do or should but they don't.

They don't have to own international waters to enforce their blockade. They do have to let everyone know that they have a blockade and tell them prior to boarding that they will do so if the blockade is breached.

In this case the flotilla announced the intention to ignore the blockade and were heading for the port they were denied access to. Israel warned, then boarded. They attacked.

Quote:

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

I believe that there is reasonable grounds to believe they would breach the blockade. Do you deny that?

NoahJ"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi

Good news for the Palestinian territories. The UK and the US, and I'm sure many other countries too, are giving and giving in light of Israel's hate.

"President Barack Obama said today the US would send $400m of aid to the Palestinian territories following 10 days of international focus on Gaza, which Israel has blockaded for more than three years.

The money will go towards infrastructure projects in both Gaza and the West Bank, including $10m for the construction of new UN schools. It did not explain how the schools will be built while Israel maintains its embargo on construction materials entering Gaza, claiming they could be diverted to make weapons and build underground bunkers.

Earlier this week the UK government promised an extra £19m in aid. Israel today announced extra items it would allow into Gaza, including crisps, canned fruit, packaged hummus and shaving foam.

"They will send the first course. We are waiting for the main course," the Palestinian economy minister, Hassan Abu Libdeh, was quoted in the Israeli media as saying. "We are waiting for this unjust siege to end."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...aza-israel-aid

"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.

A friend on mine at SAIC helped develop a system which Coast Guard vessels carry. Within a reasonable distance they can detect radiological material aboard cargo ships, without having to board and inspect, or inspect containers at the dock.

I don't have hard documents on this machine, but here are a couple links-

"President Barack Obama said today the US would send $400m of aid to the Palestinian territories following 10 days of international focus on Gaza, which Israel has blockaded for more than three years...]

So Baracky is giving $400 m we don't have to our terrorist enemies - Hamas and Hezbollah - in the Palestinian territories! Wonderful...