FreeT Players On Tower Events

so u say star maiden WOULD be pay2win if there were better rewards? BUT face reality it was not the case, there were no good rewards so freeplayer teams won the event.

From a purely objective and neutral point of view, it was a pay2win event. Pay2win is defined as something that can be 'won' by dumping money into it. Valentine's COULD have been won and it was set up as a perfect model identical to the others as a P2W event.

Not sure where the strawman of wanting freeplayers to lose came from...

so u say star maiden WOULD be pay2win if there were better rewards? BUT face reality it was not the case, there were no good rewards so freeplayer teams won the event.

From a purely objective and neutral point of view, it was a pay2win event. Pay2win is defined as something that can be 'won' by dumping money into it. Valentine's COULD have been won and it was set up as a perfect model identical to the others as a P2W event.

Not sure where the strawman of wanting freeplayers to lose came from...

i have to agree, the maiden event was a pay2win event because anyone could have won by buying the event, ie no degree of farming could have out ranked someone who wanted to just buy 1st place. It was just the case this time that a free player ended up on a team with some other free players that were all hard core into the event and the rewards were not worth paying for...

However with tower and arena events, free players are pretty much on par with payers because the units and items (te) that will help win these events can be easily traded in game.

I'm not a free player but I'm not a whale either. I agree with this assessment of tower events. I am fairly new (started in Dec) and remember very fondly the Valhalla tower event. I am not a 24/7 grinder (I've got a ft job!) but I was able to put a bit of focus in the tower event, not much money (maybe none, can't remember exactly) and I seem to remember it required a little more skill/strategy than just flat out grinding.

I was able to get a Sleipnir monster, then recruit and eventually max it. For a long time it was my only non-common 5. I was so proud of her, in spite of her weird boobs In fact, I used her as my lead during the arena event, which worked out pretty well. But ya it seems all the events since then are more about spending TE or money and/or WAY too much grinding I look forward to next tower event and hope it is as good an experience for free/cheap players!

I don't get why everyone's hating on the Star Maiden event. The team event was fine in that it wasn't completely pay-to-win--if you were lucky enough to get a team full of active players, you could pretty easily secure a place at the top with lots of grinding. Some people still spent, but that's their choice. The problem with that event was LUCK. Getting sorted into a good team required a fair bit of good fortune, but that's not really a huge example of pay-to-win.

Tower is very fun imo--the 5* monster definitely rewards anyone who puts the time into it, and even the 5* rank reward is doable if you feel like grinding. Plus you get cool-looking recruitable 4* mons just for grinding. It's not even that pay-to-win. Same thing with arena--the 5* rank reward is achievable, and the gameplay in general is more interesting.

Now, looking at training events on the other hand... yeah frick pay-to-win, luck-based training events. Soul Hunters 2 in particular was brutal... it was either hoard 2k potions or spend.

Remember, this game rewards competition and top players when it comes to 6* rank rewards. You need either time or money--you can't just rely on luck to secure you that huge a prize. That's just laziness ._.

I don't get why everyone's hating on the Star Maiden event. The team event was fine in that it wasn't completely pay-to-win--if you were lucky enough to get a team full of active players, you could pretty easily secure a place at the top with lots of grinding. Some people still spent, but that's their choice. The problem with that event was LUCK. Getting sorted into a good team required a fair bit of good fortune, but that's not really a huge example of pay-to-win.

Tower is very fun imo--the 5* monster definitely rewards anyone who puts the time into it, and even the 5* rank reward is doable if you feel like grinding. Plus you get cool-looking recruitable 4* mons just for grinding. It's not even that pay-to-win. Same thing with arena--the 5* rank reward is achievable, and the gameplay in general is more interesting.

Now, looking at training events on the other hand... yeah frick pay-to-win, luck-based training events. Soul Hunters 2 in particular was brutal... it was either hoard 2k potions or spend.

Remember, this game rewards competition and top players when it comes to 6* rank rewards. You need either time or money--you can't just rely on luck to secure you that huge a prize. That's just laziness ._.

Not hating valentine event, just wanna state out the fact...Because you can pay to overcome a bad team in valentine event.Even you have 6 active members team, how many flowers could you collect?

Just a simple calculation3 flower each time with 5mins quest with 6 ppl with 12 hours playtime per day in a 7days eventYour whole team have 18144 flowers in total.

For a payer..USD 4000 already give him 16000 flowerwith 3 flower x 5mins x 1ppl x 12 hr in 7 days event..he has 2592 flower and so 18592 flowers in total for just one person.

Don't forget..payer already paid USD 4000 for ranking, they won't care to pay more to obtain what they want as they dont wanna waste what they already spent.Pay until win...

Once again..please I just wanna state out the fact, not to blame or discourage any people.I love this game, love my allies, love all players and love forum here.If cant talk freely in forum, it is not a discussion forum, right?

I don't get why everyone's hating on the Star Maiden event. The team event was fine in that it wasn't completely pay-to-win--if you were lucky enough to get a team full of active players, you could pretty easily secure a place at the top with lots of grinding. Some people still spent, but that's their choice. The problem with that event was LUCK. Getting sorted into a good team required a fair bit of good fortune, but that's not really a huge example of pay-to-win.

Tower is very fun imo--the 5* monster definitely rewards anyone who puts the time into it, and even the 5* rank reward is doable if you feel like grinding. Plus you get cool-looking recruitable 4* mons just for grinding. It's not even that pay-to-win. Same thing with arena--the 5* rank reward is achievable, and the gameplay in general is more interesting.

Now, looking at training events on the other hand... yeah frick pay-to-win, luck-based training events. Soul Hunters 2 in particular was brutal... it was either hoard 2k potions or spend.

Remember, this game rewards competition and top players when it comes to 6* rank rewards. You need either time or money--you can't just rely on luck to secure you that huge a prize. That's just laziness ._.

Not hating valentine event, just wanna state out the fact...Because you can pay to overcome a bad team in valentine event.Even you have 6 active members team, how many flowers could you collect?

Just a simple calculation3 flower each time with 5mins quest with 6 ppl with 12 hours playtime per day in a 7days eventYour whole team have 18144 flowers in total.

For a payer..USD 4000 already give him 16000 flowerwith 3 flower x 5mins x 1ppl x 12 hr in 7 days event..he has 2592 flower and so 18592 flowers in total for just one person.

Don't forget..payer already paid USD 4000 for ranking, they won't care to pay more to obtain what they want as they dont wanna waste what they already spent.Pay until win...

Once again..please I just wanna state out the fact, not to blame or discourage any people.I love this game, love my allies, love all players and love forum here.If cant talk freely in forum, it is not a discussion forum, right?

"Pay until win"

Seriously? You can win in any game of this TCG genre if you spend enough money. If he spends $4000 on a single event and has no life, he deserves to win something for his efforts. There are many things to complain about in Fanta, but this is not one.

Of course you can pay to overcome a bad team... this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You can pay to overcome anything in this game. But one person spending $4000 to win an event that 5 players could get for free isn't exactly unfair, is it?

Seriously? You can win in any game of this TCG genre if you spend enough money. If he spends $4000 on a single event and has no life, he deserves to win something for his efforts. There are many things to complain about in Fanta, but this is not one.

Of course you can pay to overcome a bad team... this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You can pay to overcome anything in this game. But one person spending $4000 to win an event that 5 players could get for free isn't exactly unfair, is it?

Sure..so he deserves it.If to complain, I only wanna say pls make the game more challenging and exciting, instead of paying.I already said it would be great to make free player a chance to win big price, like V.Diana.Payer should only have a small advantage on paying only.

- How the hell should there be a "fair" competition between payers and grinders and casual gamers (yes, most of the time this ends up being unfair FOR the payers)?

- How would a BIG game company get their workers their paychecks if there is no one paying in the game, because the gain from it is not worth it?

- How would artists get their 5000-10000 Yen paycheck for illustrating a card, recruited temporary from Pixiv? (yes they get around 500-1000 US$ for this, I know this because I know ppl who illustrate d'uh and I am on Pixiv myself lol)

- So... if that problem about the payment issue cannot be solved... do you insist of like, they put in a "Kiddy Grade" Event in which casual gamers can score? As in:

- No Mobage account which spent more than 10k coins is allowed - Hourly cooldown - No more points after 8 hrs per day for each individual account - Only TE(p) and POT(p) allowed - Only 3* Leaders allowed (since 4* takes luck to pull and most ppl pull 6* from 4*-Tickets right?) - Everyone joining the Event gets 10 TE and 10 POT for free, so that they can eventually bring out a 4* Kiddy Grade Event in the near future - The Price is a 7* Card which payers don't give #@#$ about, since it is either ugly or male, and has low stats such as Fiona; yes, fair is fair, if they get the booby action for money, so free players must get something they cannot get jealous about, yes correctly this follows the "pay for sex logic"

- Ohohohoh-oh wait a second, there were still hardcore grinders out here right? It wouldn't be fair if they were put into the same Event as casual gamers, that again, would end up in unbalancy or dissatisfaction on both sides all over again.so... how should we get rid of them? Creating a third line of Events?

look, thing is, if you guys have constructive solutions for these kind of problems, tell me, heck yeah, it would help me with bringing out the most hated or loved free/pay to play game ever! >>;

Just think about it... there cannot be "a better balance between casual, grinders and payers", because this right now, is already some sort of a balance, it's known as a hierarchy system... and again, why should ppl who buy and work for their achievements be punished for ppl who really cannot do more during the same time given? (okay okay, I am NOT going to call anybody lazy here, it's just a matter of fact that I can work while playing and others were born in a rich family, so why not allow them/me to have their/my fun? This is not an ideal world we live in after all, it's the real world, shitty world, nothing is fair here, deal with it -___-)

Making the game more challenging: Means we have to put more effort into the game to achieve something... well, we are already doing that... and, if you were talking about game skills as in an action game... good luck with such one as a server action game for the app-market... you... probably going to fail on that one (oh god resources, why!?)

More exciting in game design means...: Luck factor... such as in.... yeah Training Events and Valentine Event... hmm funny.... I thought that was frustrating enough for hard working ppl if they were forced to end up in a casual gamer team OR having casual allies who either never change back to their strong leads during cool down or not logging in at all.... just saying

But one person spending $4000 to win an event that 5 players could get for free isn't exactly unfair, is it?

I'm still not seeing your point: Valentine's is P2W.

Most events are, in fact. I don't see why you guys have a problem that the rarest, most valuable 6* rank rewards are pretty much limited to paying players... there has to be some modicum of competition among real-money players.

Seriously? You can win in any game of this TCG genre if you spend enough money. If he spends $4000 on a single event and has no life, he deserves to win something for his efforts. There are many things to complain about in Fanta, but this is not one.

Of course you can pay to overcome a bad team... this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You can pay to overcome anything in this game. But one person spending $4000 to win an event that 5 players could get for free isn't exactly unfair, is it?

Sure..so he deserves it.If to complain, I only wanna say pls make the game more challenging and exciting, instead of paying.I already said it would be great to make free player a chance to win big price, like V.Diana.Payer should only have a small advantage on paying only.

I agree with you that the range of prizes should be extended so that free players have a chance. That's why 5* rank rewards are awesome <3 However, it's up to the game developer to decide how much of an advantage paying players get over free players--in this case, they get a huge advantage in training/panel but not much of an advantage in arena/tower. As for free players being able to randomly win big prizes if they put in enough effort... I would also like to see more events like this (ex: Trials of Sun and Moon).

But one person spending $4000 to win an event that 5 players could get for free isn't exactly unfair, is it?

I'm still not seeing your point: Valentine's is P2W.

Most events are, in fact. I don't see why you guys have a problem that the rarest, most valuable 6* rank rewards are pretty much limited to paying players... there has to be some modicum of competition among real-money players.

No problem here.I'm just correcting your technicality: it's all P2W. Saying it's "fair' or "plausible" for free players is just meaningless, that's all

But I am here talking about the balance of profit-making with game quality.Even he needa gain profit from payers, they cannot ignore free players.Also, the role for free players are for advertising and making the game much challenging and exciting.They are still your customers.So they should keep a balance for both of them, but not just pay-to-win.

Btw, i don't think challenging = put more effort, exciting = luck.Why cant mobage design more event or even improve the game content, instead of putting restriction or contraint on the current event? (Okok, a little improvement from japan wiki)

Matahari is not the only 6* obtainable by free players... in this event if a free player traded for cuni and spent as much time farming as they did in the sun & moon the would be able to get franc and easily rank. They could also do this with a event 5* and a supply of pots... of coarse they would need to be able to take down the bosses but really, these rewards and ranks should be out of reach for new players.

I will have put the same amount of time into this event as i did sun and moon, in sun and moon i got about 100k over the 5*, in this event i will get the 5* tomorrow or the day after, if i put an extra 5 hours in per day or spend 200'ish pots i would have franc. no question. free player. stop whining.

In this event: 30$ = 2,500 charms2,500 charms = 8 to 10 hours of grinding or 16 to 20 pots

Just look at League of Legends (PC Game) for a great example of a Free-to-Play game that makes money for it's developers, while keeping the game completely fair for free and pay players alike.

Free players are motivated to play because they can reach the top ranks with enough skill... all while earning in-game currency to buy the latest characters (albeit very slowly).

Pay players are motivated to play (and pay) because they get great new artwork and the latest characters right away. (And most importantly, paying does not automatically give them the win on leaderboards)

Yes, I know the Fantasica and LoL are completely different games, but I think the some of the same principles could be applied here. Which could make the game FUN for everyone. Isn't that the point of playing?

Just look at League of Legends (PC Game) for a great example of a Free-to-Play game that makes money for it's developers, while keeping the game completely fair for free and pay players alike.

Free players are motivated to play because they can reach the top ranks with enough skill... all while earning in-game currency to buy the latest characters (albeit very slowly).

Pay players are motivated to play (and pay) because they get great new artwork and the latest characters right away. (And most importantly, paying does not automatically give them the win on leaderboards)

Yes, I know the Fantasica and LoL are completely different games, but I think the some of the same principles could be applied here. Which could make the game FUN for everyone. Isn't that the point of playing?

well ok, so you play a lot, for months, you trade well, sell your cards and amass enough te or pots to rank and get your 6* 'skin' or just buy it outright from other players...

edit: what am i missing? I think the only event were a free player cant out rank a paying one is the panel events.

Last edited by Ghost_Star on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

Matahari is not the only 6* obtainable by free players... in this event if a free player traded for cuni and spent as much time farming as they did in the sun & moon the would be able to get franc and easily rank. They could also do this with a event 5* and a supply of pots... of coarse they would need to be able to take down the bosses but really, these rewards and ranks should be out of reach for new players.

I will have put the same amount of time into this event as i did sun and moon, in sun and moon i got about 100k over the 5*, in this event i will get the 5* tomorrow or the day after, if i put an extra 5 hours in per day or spend 200'ish pots i would have franc. no question. free player. stop whining.

In this event: 30$ = 2,500 charms2,500 charms = 8 to 10 hours of grinding or 16 to 20 pots

not that hard guys.

ahh sorry, francois is not obtainable by a mere 200 pots ^^ a friend of mine is goin for her and has spent 500 pots and grinds 20 hrs a day -> is only at 75k charms.

And speaking of equality of paying players and free players, in a microtransaction game...such a thing doesn't exist because if there is no advantage for paying players then there's no incentative for them to pay and i believe no microtransaction will even the playing field if they will not gain profit. If you want a game with equality among all players then a subscription game is the way to go.

ahh sorry, francois is not obtainable by a mere 200 pots ^^ a friend of mine is goin for her and has spent 500 points and is only at 75k charms.

And speaking of equality of paying players and free players, in a microtransaction game...such a thing doesn't exist because if there is no advantage for paying players then there's no incentative for them to pay and i believe no microtransaction will even the playing field if they will not gain profit. If you want a game with equality among all players then a subscription game is the way to go.

ok, well, i say pots, a cuni lead and farming 18 hours day... how many bosses did your friend let flee? what level is he/she keeping them at? <- this makes a huge difference

edit: and really the exact number of pots/time spent is not really the point here, its that it can be done if you know how the event works.

Also i should point out in this event that as bosses level they give much much more charms. meaning that as the event progresses you should earn many more charms then you did the day before.

in this game you can buy your way out of farming, yes, however with units, te and pots being tradeable and those items being huge factors in arena, tower and training events it really does equalizes the playing field.

ahh sorry, francois is not obtainable by a mere 200 pots ^^ a friend of mine is goin for her and has spent 500 points and is only at 75k charms.

And speaking of equality of paying players and free players, in a microtransaction game...such a thing doesn't exist because if there is no advantage for paying players then there's no incentative for them to pay and i believe no microtransaction will even the playing field if they will not gain profit. If you want a game with equality among all players then a subscription game is the way to go.

ok, well, i say pots, a cuni lead and farming 18 hours day... how many bosses did your friend let flee? what level is he/she keeping them at? <- this makes a huge difference

Also i should point out in this event that as bosses level they give much much more charms. meaning that as the event progresses you should earn many more charms then you did the day before.

in this game you can buy your way out of farming, yes, however with units, te and pots being tradeable and those items being huge factors in arena, tower and training events it really does equalizes the playing field.

he's using cuni keeping bosses at lvls he can handle and his constance is at 95-100, hugues and margot at 115-120, adele is at 90-100 becuz she's a pain so he keeps her lower than the others. Isabel was at 20 i last heard but she doesnt appear very often to be factored unfortunately.

in this game you can buy your way out of farming, yes, however with units, te and pots being tradeable and those items being huge factors in arena, tower and training events it really does equalizes the playing field.

First, you need to realize that the event is heavily dependent on luck, and a mere 200 pots wont really get you anywhere. I guess if you're super lucky or something..., but I believe you are vastly underestimating just how difficult training events are to get a 6* even with proper planning.

As for your quote, I don't think that's true at all. Well, it is in a sense, but only if you have like 1000pots and luck on your side, which I consider completely irrelevant since it pushes past the 'plausible' to 'absurdity'. A better example is the panel event and Matahari, where getting her was possible with a combination of dedication and planning.

Just look at League of Legends (PC Game) for a great example of a Free-to-Play game that makes money for it's developers, while keeping the game completely fair for free and pay players alike.

Free players are motivated to play because they can reach the top ranks with enough skill... all while earning in-game currency to buy the latest characters (albeit very slowly).

Pay players are motivated to play (and pay) because they get great new artwork and the latest characters right away. (And most importantly, paying does not automatically give them the win on leaderboards)

Yes, I know the Fantasica and LoL are completely different games, but I think the some of the same principles could be applied here. Which could make the game FUN for everyone. Isn't that the point of playing?

well ok, so you play a lot, for months, you trade well, sell your cards and amass enough te or pots to rank and get your 6* 'skin' or just buy it outright from other players...

edit: what am i missing? I think the only event were a free player cant out rank a paying one is the panel events.

You're missing the "FUN" part, hehehe J/K

Everything you said is true. A free player could save for months (years?) to build a premium 6* team. However, even with a great set of cards and a lot of saved TE/POT(p), that still does not guarantee a win (or even a chance at winning) in any event, except for maybe something like Star Maidens.

However, playing devils advocate, let's say this person was able to squeeze out a win (rank 1-10). Well that probably meant they would have used up their entire supply of TE/POT, so it'll take them a long time to save it and be in position to compete again.

I dunno about you, but this sounds like a lot of grinding for a tiny chance at succeeding. I know many people have said that free players should set their sights a lot lower and go for top 400 ranking, or maybe even top 200 ranking. But I have to question why that's an acceptable alternative (Again, look at LoL where a free player can be in the top ranks without having to grind for month/years).

And just to be clear here, I'm not asking for Free players to be given a "free handout". Hell, I've worked hard for my 6* cards. I believe that hard work (grinding) should be well rewarded (more than it is today) and I also believe that real money spent should continue to buy a leg-up on the competition, but not the gigantic advantage it currently has.

FYI - I'm a free player who earned Mata in the last event, but I won't even make it to Therese in this event (with similar playtime). There's something seriously wrong with that! And no, I didn't feel like trading in Mata (or my other 6*s) for a beastman 5* card

Last edited by Soulstalker on Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

in this game you can buy your way out of farming, yes, however with units, te and pots being tradeable and those items being huge factors in arena, tower and training events it really does equalizes the playing field.

First, you need to realize that the event is heavily dependent on luck, and a mere 200 pots wont really get you anywhere. I guess if you're super lucky or something..., but I believe you are vastly underestimating just how difficult training events are to get a 6* even with proper planning.

As for your quote, I don't think that's true at all. Well, it is in a sense, but only if you have like 1000pots and luck on your side, which I consider completely irrelevant since it pushes past the 'plausible' to 'absurdity'. A better example is the panel event and Matahari, where getting her was possible with a combination of dedication and planning.

I always thought training events are more friendly towards paying gamers because of spikes which equals to a fix number of BT points and Charms. These spikes (other than the few given out as rewards) can only be purchased and are not tradable. The strategy then is how to coax your allies to stay active, lose boss fights and ask for assistance. I have seen people crying before that they had hundreds of spikes, but cant use them because their allies didn't ask for help.