No worries about the thread hijack, it is always great to see how widespread the Tiki Transmission Tradition was! Hawaii to Michigan.

Now, back to our show. I found this ad on the internet from the Trader Vic's on Ward. A great rendering of the trees through the roof. I wonder what the inside of the restaurant looked like with the palm trunks?

On 2010-07-24 10:13, bigbrotiki wrote:I think it hails from the years when the Trader was still in charge of the Honolulu Vic's

I'd say it (the mug) was after Vic was involved with this shop. I have what I think is an earlier green version of the mug in "Waikiki Tiki: Art, History and Photographs." Don Blanding designed for Vernon Kilns. It's likely that this is the vagabond poet's design.

Around December 1940, Vic and Granville "Granny" Abbott partner and create the Ward Avenue location. Bergeron mixes and serves mai-tais at the opening. There is an arguement and Vic sells his half. This seems to occur in early 1941.
_________________Waikiki Tiki; Art, History, and Photographs.
Available now from Bess Press Hawaii.

So, you're implying that you have evidence proving that Mr. Bergeron served Mai Tais four years earlier than the until-now understood invention date of 1944? Can you please post a scan or other facsimile of your source? This new discovery could blow the roof off of all previously known history of the Mai Tai!!!
_________________THE TIKIYAKI ORCHESTRAINSECT SURFERSTIKI MAGAZINEFIBERGLASS JUNGLE on Luxuria

On 2010-07-26 00:01, JONPAUL wrote:So, you're implying that you have evidence proving that Mr. Bergeron served Mai Tais four years earlier than the until-now understood invention date of 1944? Can you please post a scan or other facsimile of your source? This new discovery could blow the roof off of all previously known history of the Mai Tai!!!

Yep, I can post those sources. Here ya' go...

Article 1- from the 1955 Honolulu Advertiser firmly establishes the opening date of the Ward Avenue Trader Vic's as December 18, 1940.

Article 2- from the Honolulu Star-Bulletin states Vic "introduced and served the first Mai Tai when he founded the Honolulu Trader Vic's..."

Posted and scanned, there it is! Doesn't mean it's true though As many others who ever specialized in any specific field have experienced, the news-printed word must often be taken with a grain of salt. Just a couple of months ago, a major travel magazine stated the Book of Tiki had been published in 2003, while it actually came out in September of 2000, and already went into its third printing in 2003.

Let's see what Trader Vic had to say in his 1970 press kit, which was published in conjunction with his court case about his invention of the Mai Tai:

Now in 2000, I published the most important page from that press kit on page 169 of the Book of Tiki, here are some closer scans of it:

This version has been accepted by the majority of cocktail historians and was quoted Jeff Berry (with a wink), who wrote a couple of fascinating pages on the various claims about the Mai Tai's origin in his newest tome Beachbum Berry Remixed.

Since Vic had a falling out with the Honolulu Trader Vic's owners, I bet they just loved to "aggravate his ulcer" with all sorts of little stories like the one above. I personally like to trust the handwritten signatures in my possession. Vic might have been an insufferable bastard at times, but no one would call him a lying bastard.

On 2010-07-26 20:11, bigbrotiki wrote:Posted and scanned, there it is! Doesn't mean it's true though

What was that lyric from Joe Jackson's song "Sunday Papers?" "They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true!" The second article (dated June 26, 1956) by Coby Black seems to be quoting Vic.

"Before then, the only topical drink you could buy was a Planters Punch" CONTINUED the man who..."

So if Vic told her that, he must be attributed to the information in the paragraph above it.

"I could be a liar and say I started the Polynesian trend in dining, but I won't. Don the Beachcomber was really the father of it all, and Hawaii owes him a vote of thanks for encouraging Polynesian atmosphere." Vic IS being honest here, so why would he not be honest before this point in the article?

Quote:

Let's see what Trader Vic had to say in his 1970 press kit, which was published in conjunction with his court case about his invention of the Mai Tai:

I tend to trust newspapers more than I do press kits. Journalists seem more reliable (even then) than press kit writers. Press kits by nature are designed to get out YOUR side.

The fact that Vic has a witness to his 1944 account is good in court case, and it does make compelling evidence.

Quote:

Since Vic had a falling out with the Honolulu Trader Vic's owners, I bet they just loved to "aggravate his ulcer" with all sorts of little stories like the one above. I personally like to trust the handwritten signatures in my possession. Vic might have been an insufferable bastard at times, but no one would call him a lying bastard.

Nor am I calling him (or anyone) a "lying bastard." I simply must agree to disagree in this case and keep an open mind.

It does not seem that the second article was influenced by the Honolulu Trader Vic's (Spence and Cliff Weaver in 1970) owners to "aggravate his ulcer." It's quite possible that the 1940 story is true. It's just as possible that it's not and Vic said it because he knew he was doing an interview with a journalist from Honolulu. Faulty memory 30 years later as opposed to 16 years later? Reliable witness in 1944 is a better story that will stand up in court in 1970?
_________________Waikiki Tiki; Art, History, and Photographs.
Available now from Bess Press Hawaii.

On 2010-07-28 13:18, Phillip Roberts wrote:I tend to trust newspapers more than I do press kits. Journalists seem more reliable (even then) than press kit writers. Press kits by nature are designed to get out YOUR side.

I don't get it. What I posted above is not some press kit written some press kit writer. It is a statement by Trader Vic, in his words, signed by his hand in ink (not a printed signature). The article you found does not quote Vic directly, it is the writer who makes the statement "this gray haired genial host served the first Mai Tai when he founded the Honululu Trader Vic's" and only after that goes into a direct quote by Vic. It seems much more likely to me that the writer's statement is based on some miss-information or a miss-understanding, than that Vic would be contradicting himself in this matter.

By the way, I just found out that we now can add Augie Goupil as one more claimant to the invention of the Mai Tai mythology.

Finally found an interior shot of the International Marketplace location, from 1970.

Nice Socks, Buddy!

It looks like there are some nice lamps hiding back beyond the bamboo lattice-work wall, but otherwise it's much more bland than the Ward Ave location. They don't seem to be using any of the signature ceramics or glassware either (at least in this photo).