"The changes that have taken place over the last few years are massive. If we don't do anything to keep pushing forward, we may see demand shrink as those devices encroach on our space. We think it's the least cool thing to start doing something just because other people are making money doing it. We always want to do something that forces people to slap their knee and say 'we didn't think of that.' History will decide whether we're right. Or whether the people who say we're old fashioned are correct." - Satoru Iwata

robometal cowboy wrote:"We think it's the least cool thing to start doing something just because other people are making money doing it." - Satoru Iwata

So that's their excuse for dragging their heels in everything internet-related? Refusing to incorporate worthwhile innovations into your platforms just because other people thought of them first, while at the same time not offering a better option, isn't genius-- it's stupidity.

Say what y'all will about how they handle internet-related things, but the fact that other companies started playing "follow-the-leader" with Nintendo ever since the Wii means that their mentality has more than proved its worth.

Quetzalcoatl2k wrote:Say what y'all will about how they handle internet-related things, but the fact that other companies started playing "follow-the-leader" with Nintendo ever since the Wii means that their mentality has more than proved its worth.

Other companies have been playing follow the leader with Nintendo since long before that. I mean look at the Playstation controller, basically a Super Nintendo controller with a crappy d-pad, or the Sega Master System controller, basically an NES controller with a crappy d-pad...d-pads, analogs, shoulder buttons, button layouts, motion controls, they even had online as far back as Super Nintendo for those who act like X-Box invented online gaming. I'm just glad somebody is doing something besides what others are doing.

Quetzalcoatl2k wrote:Say what y'all will about how they handle internet-related things, but the fact that other companies started playing "follow-the-leader" with Nintendo ever since the Wii means that their mentality has more than proved its worth.

On some things, not on others. Notice you don't see many other devices out there with dual screens or glasses-free 3D.

Quetzalcoatl2k wrote:Say what y'all will about how they handle internet-related things, but the fact that other companies started playing "follow-the-leader" with Nintendo ever since the Wii means that their mentality has more than proved its worth.

Yeah...but you seem to be ignoring the fact that the N64 and GCN also did shovel different and looked what happend. Small discs. Continuous cartidge use.

Quetzalcoatl2k wrote:Say what y'all will about how they handle internet-related things, but the fact that other companies started playing "follow-the-leader" with Nintendo ever since the Wii means that their mentality has more than proved its worth.

Yeah...but you seem to be ignoring the fact that the N64 and GCN also did shovel different and looked what happend. Small discs. Continuous cartidge use.

N64 brought analog controls, something every console since has had, essentially ushering in the era of 3D games. I would agree with the Gamecube, didn't do much different, and as awesome of a system as it was didn't do too well because of it, though it did have the first good wireless controller which has been standard since.

And cartridges have their advantages too. I prefer them, the only problem is is it's so much cheaper to store large amounts of information on discs. They are far more durable, a scratch isn't going to render them unplayable. Load times are much faster, even almost instantaneous. And information stored on discs deteriorate at a much faster rate, long after the disc games are completely unplayable NES cartridges will still work fine. Then there's problems with the disk drive itself, they have moving parts which wear out and quit working, and are much more susceptible to breaking from being dropped or banged around.

Koopzilla wrote:N64 brought analog controls, something every console since has had, essentially ushering in the era of 3D games.

Actually, N64 wasn't the first console with an analog joystick in the controller, not by a long shot*. The first to feature this was an obscure console called the "1292 Advanced Programmable Video System", and was released in 1976(!). The Atari 5200 had one in 1982 (though, unfortunately, it wasn't self-centering), and the Vectrex, also released in 1982, had an analog joystick and could even display some primitive 3D-like vector graphics. Sony introduced a dual-analog flightstick accessory for the Playstation in early 1996, (a few months before N64 was even released), and the Sega Saturn had an analog controller which released only about two weeks after N64 did. It's pretty clear that Nintendo did not invent the small analog joystick, though they did provide compelling software that helped show its capabilities, thereby helping to popularize it.

Also, don't forget that while N64's controller did have a forward-thinking analog thumbstick, it also showed a lot of poor design choices that were later abandoned by Nintendo and never copied by anyone else, including the tri-handled design, strange face button design with 2 large A & B buttons and 4 small c-buttons, and accessories that stuck out the bottom of the controller and made it quite heavy and unwieldy. I would actually argue that after the introduction of the SNES controller, Sony has actually done more to advance the standard controller than Nintendo. Think about it:

Nintendo:Analog stick (not new, but had been ignored for a while) - superceded by dual analogsAdd-on rumble capability - Sony introduced integrated rumble the same monthOptional wireless controller - not new by any means, but they made it finally work well enough

Sony:Dual analog sticks - now industry standard(also, these sticks used the now industry-standard potentiometer-based design, instead of the rickety and poorly-wearing spring and gear design of the N64 stick)Clickable analog sticks - now industry standardIntegrated rumble tech - now industry standardTwo sets of shoulder buttons - now industry standardTwo large ergonomic handles - now industry standardIntegrated rumble - now industry standardBottom center face button as main button - now standard with everybody but Nintendo (?)

I just don't think Sony would have ever done any of those things on their own. Other than the fact that we have what they did, but ours is better (there's twice the amount, or it's built in), left on their own we could still be using the PS1 controller. Not that there's anything wrong with improving on things, but I don't think they would have taken the risk until someone else had proven it works. I think Nintendo would have replaced the 4 c buttons with another analog and built the rumble in. Granted, there's no way of knowing any of that for sure now. I will give Sony credit for the two ergonomic handles though, a very good idea.

On a side note, I can't understand why Sony hasn't moved the analog to the "main position" where their d-pad is at. I will also say, I can't understand why Nintendo decided to move their second analog to the "main position" where the buttons should be. Those both seem to be pretty poor design choices imo. Another thing is I don't have no idea why the analog shoulder buttons like the Gamecube had didn't catch on, those were great and had some really good uses like controlled spinning of things or acceleration, but even Nintendo has abandoned that idea.

Koopzilla wrote:I just don't think Sony would have ever done any of those things on their own. Other than the fact that we have what they did, but ours is better (there's twice the amount, or it's built in), left on their own we could still be using the PS1 controller. Not that there's anything wrong with improving on things, but I don't think they would have taken the risk until someone else had proven it works.

That doesn't fit with the facts, though. Sony released the Playstation Analog Joystick (featuring dual analog joysticks instead of thumbsticks, but based on the same basic mechanism, and compatible with a good variety of games) before N64 even came out. As for force feedback, they released the Playstation Dual Analog Controller (which had integrated rumble, though only in the Japanese version) in the same month the Rumble Pak was released (both in April of 1997). That doesn't sound like a company that's only following and tweaking what Nintendo does. For that matter, they came out with a motion control system for a home console (Eye Toy) 3 full years before Wii. Yes, Nintendo has been innovative, but they don't have a monopoly on innovation in console gaming.