A buddy of mine and I are getting back into airginning. We are looking for a magnum gun mostly fot crushing birds and small game Small game being rat, gofer, groundhog, racoon, rabbit, prariedog, and maybe fox. We are forced to stay in the .177 caliber. These are the guns we like. Some questions to anyone who wants to answer:Assume we are great shots and expert hunters (we are).

1) what can anyone say about the 12.5? I like it on reputation but don't have any facts.

2) Is the 12.5 as accurate as the company claims? .20 c-t-t @ 10 meters

3) What is the accuracy on the NP XL in comparison? Does anyone have any data?

4) Will I have to buy aftermarket parts for either gun?

5) what is a RS3 triger?

6) what speed does the NP XL REALY get? 1500fps? What are the real #'s?

the problem is mostly not having anything (feedback) on the Beeman. No one has reviewed it so I don't know Benjamin or Beeman? Personaly I like the Beeman my friend likes the Benjamin. We are very competitive and we're both looking for a little edge. I like that the trail np is known to be quiet and is at least advertised as 1500 fps (the data was helpful thank you). But the Beeman may potentialy be a much more precise gun with nearly the power and probably quiet as well due to staying sub-sonic with magnum pellets (H&N MATCH BARRACUDA'S). I am a little daunted by the Beeman's 60lb cocking effort. It seems like a hudge #. But intriged by the RS3 triger. I can't find anything about it. From these forums is suspect that the Trail will have to have A triger upgrade where the Beeman may come with an awsome triger.

also, I plan to be tinkering with the trigger a lot. With that to consider i have to recognize that the Trail is much more expensive. I can get the Beeman for about $200 delivered. THe trail $280 delivered plus what $40 for that triger? Thats $120 for pellets or a scope upgrade or whatever.

also again about the noise, I know the Trail is probably the quietest gun out there shooting in the 65db range and that is a hudge advantage but does the Beeman sound obnoxious? Thats the real question I guess. I'll at times be shooting in a long attached garrage. Quiet is good. Is the Beeman going to realy give off a loud crack? I think 100db's is loud crack. Also I am only interested in THIS gun, not your trusty $600 R1. Out of my $$ range and the Mach 12.5 is likely made in China NOT in Germany so an R1 comparison is apples and oranges.

Chad, I have no personal experience with the Beeman Mach 12.5 but have had my XL1500 for a couple of weeks now. I absolutely love this gun!!!! I have had a Benjamin Super Streak for several months and wanted to try the nitrogen piston model for comparison. It is definately quieter and a REAL powerhouse. The SS is a massive magnum also, but the XL1500 out performs it.

I've just started testing mine and have 3 more pellet weights to chrony before I start serious accuracy testing. Hope to have time this weekend to wrap up my testing. The gun is capable of 1500fps with PBA rounds. I will not shoot these in my guns, I see nothing useful in cracking out 1500fpsflyers. I'll stick with heavier ammo to slow things down and get the accuracy, which my XL1500 has proven to have. I posted some chrony numbers too but will revise them this weekend with the other heavier ammo. But so far, the gun shoots CPHP (7.9gr) and Crosman Premiere Ultra Mags (10.5gr) VERY accurately and at 1100-1150fps for 22-23+ fpe. THAT is smokin' for a .177 caliber!!!!

I did some shooting last weekend and the gun amazed me. I was shooting into my Beeman pellet trap at 25 yards and took a couple of shots at targets out to 100 yards. Whatreally surprisedme was with CPUM, I did not have to Mil-dot the target. It was dead on at 25 yards AND 100 yards. No leading at all. I had to repeatthe 100 yard shotto verify that I didn't pull on the target, I didn't.

The XL weighs in almost 10lbs and is long, roughly 49" total. Cocking takes some effort but I wouldn't have paid much attention tothat except when I switched back to shooting my SS. THEN it's noticable. I added a GRT-III trigger, which I HIGHLY recommend. I believe this helps the XL be the nail driver it is. You can definately stack pellets with it. I also plan on upgrading my scope. The CenterPoint 3-9x40 AO scope that comes with the gun is okay but with the flat trajectory this gun can produce, I feel it deserves a better scope. I plan on doing some LR shooting with some practice.

Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to give you my full opinion of the XL1500. I got mine at a bargain price and would buy it again in a heartbeat. This is truely an accurate powerhouse of an AG. It's definately a hunter if you don't mind the weight, which I don't. I'd rathersacrafice light weight for knowingthat when I point and shoot, it's going to hit it's mark (as long as the guy behind the glass does his part) and will have plenty of power to do the job.

I haven't heard anything about the Beeman. Looking on Pryamyd Air's website, it looks like it's just coming out, so you may not hear anything about it for awhile. If you don't wish to wait a couple of months for feed-back to trickle in, you may have to be one of the first to buy the Beeman and report back on it.

As far as costs, it's listed as only $50.00 less than the Trail XL at Pyramyd. I can tell you from experiance, a Tuna trigger is a must with the Trail if you want to get the full accuracy out of it. That will be another $32.00. So, the differance is closer to $80.00 not $120.00. Finding the Beeman cheaper somewhere else - likewise for the Trail, so the differance in price between the two should stay close to $80.00.

The Beeman is listed as almost a pound heavier. It 's spring powered not gas ram, and at 60 lbs cocking force - WOW ! I have to wonder what the spring torque will be like in a beast with that much cocking effort. That's alot of energy to have to put in to get close to the power of a Trail XL. I've measured my Trail XL and Pyramyd's listing of 47 pounds matches mine at 47-48 pounds, so I assume the 60 pounds listed for the Beeman is very close to actual too. And the Beeman is also listed as louder than the Trail. So, no gas ram, it's heavier, louder, and tougher to cock, that would turn me off to the Beeman. And, you may have to spend more money on the Beeman to get it tuned to tame it down to where you can get any accuracy.

If you realy want to try to compare them, one thing to think about, if you order the Beeman you can compare it side by side with your friend's Trail. If you don't like it, I've heard that Pyramyd will let you swap it for the Trail if you do so with in 30 days.

I donâ€™t have any experience with ether of these guns. Both will perform very well Iâ€™m sure I think the man on the trigger would make the biggest difference IMO. We own a Springer and GP gun I would go with the Benjamin just on that fact that it a gas piston. Keep us updated on your choice.

This is al very helpful information (espicialy ezman604, your answer is just fantastic). I have been trying to make the case for the Beeman for some time because I know some of their history and they have the guts to advertise a c-t-c that their guns DO perform, right out of the box. Ive seen it done several times now as friends have aquired an R1 or an R7. Best of all was an HW90 we were dropping pellets on top of each other shot after shot with iron sights at 10 meters. Now its been a while, but those experences stick with you. Ive been shooting firearms exclusively for some time now and I can get out of a firearm what it CAN perform. I know airguns are different dut shooting is shooting. I'm sure if Beeman claims .20 c-t-c I'll get that right out of the box and BETTER with a little tuning. But if you notice, all the guns I've tried are MFG in Germany and that makes a difference. The Mach 12.5 is a Chinese gun. I've tested guns that are out of an acceptable price range and made in a different place. Think they also only test with lead. All this said Im finding it hard to make an argument for Beeman much longer. Dave makes a hudge case with favorable field results. Plus in the 100 or so other reviews, no one realy has anything bad to say that can't be explaind by shooting error or inexperence.