Maybe this forum is always this awesomely informative and it just goes right over my head, but the last week has been incredibly helpful for me in filling in vagueness and clarifying confusion. Thanks, Namdrol.

"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

Namdrol wrote:No, the basis is self-originated wisdom; sentient beings arise from the condition of ignorance. The cause of their arising is the non-recognition of wisdom. Hence the term "buddhahood that returns the cause".

N

What is the meaning of "returning to the cause". Is it implying a return to the previous state? Would the Path of Seeing be classified as "returning to the cause" since one sees ones true nature but does not become permanently established in it, removing only innate, but not root ignorance? In essence, wisdom arises at some point and its seen yet its not recognized in the proper way, so enlightenment is only partial and one has to keep striving in order to properly recognize it?

I must add my thanks to others for this detailled (and clear) explanation ...

Sönam

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.- Longchen Rabjam -

Namdrol wrote:No, the basis is self-originated wisdom; sentient beings arise from the condition of ignorance. The cause of their arising is the non-recognition of wisdom. Hence the term "buddhahood that returns the cause".

N

What is the meaning of "returning to the cause".

Means returning to the state of the basis -- the basis is called the basis because it has not been realized. When it is realized, the basis is called the result. If it is realized imperfectly, then that is called a result that returns to the cause; when it is realized perfectly, then it is called "the result that does not return to the cause".

Please bear in mind that these things are theoretical, and they have very little if nothing at all to do with dailhy practice.

Namdrol wrote:No, the basis is self-originated wisdom; sentient beings arise from the condition of ignorance. The cause of their arising is the non-recognition of wisdom. Hence the term "buddhahood that returns the cause".

N

What is the meaning of "returning to the cause".

Means returning to the state of the basis -- the basis is called the basis because it has not been realized. When it is realized, the basis is called the result. If it is realized imperfectly, then that is called a result that returns to the cause; when it is realized perfectly, then it is called "the result that does not return to the cause".

Please bear in mind that these things are theoretical, and they have very little if nothing at all to do with dailhy practice.

This thread is more than fascinating and I would have one question in respect to Buddhas and pralaya.

Does it mean that whoever has not achieved the Rainbow Body of Great Transference i.e. the complete and final result of Dzogchen can fall back into a state of ignorance after the pralaya happens and then a new universe (or should I rather say multiverse) emerges?

AilurusFulgens wrote:Does it mean that whoever has not achieved the Rainbow Body of Great Transference i.e. the complete and final result of Dzogchen can fall back into a state of ignorance after the pralaya happens and then a new universe (or should I rather say multiverse) emerges?

A. Fulgens

No, one can acheive complete realization either in this life, at the time of death, or in the bardo of dharmatā.

If one is a Dzogchen practitioner, even of one is a best an average practitioner i.e. the lowest capacity, there are methods to ensure rebirth in the five pure nirmanakāya buddhafields, where one will attain samyaksambuddhahood within five hundred human years, according to the texts.

AilurusFulgens wrote:Does it mean that whoever has not achieved the Rainbow Body of Great Transference i.e. the complete and final result of Dzogchen can fall back into a state of ignorance after the pralaya happens and then a new universe (or should I rather say multiverse) emerges?

A. Fulgens

No, one can acheive complete realization either in this life, at the time of death, or in the bardo of dharmatā.

If one is a Dzogchen practitioner, even of one is a best an average practitioner i.e. the lowest capacity, there are methods to ensure rebirth in the five pure nirmanakāya buddhafields, where one will attain samyaksambuddhahood within five hundred human years, according to the texts.

Namdrol, and what would those methods be ,if i may ask?

Is not that i am an average practitioner but i hope that one day i will come to engender the hope of becoming a beginner and thus i could be called a proper "average practitioner"

AilurusFulgens wrote:Does it mean that whoever has not achieved the Rainbow Body of Great Transference i.e. the complete and final result of Dzogchen can fall back into a state of ignorance after the pralaya happens and then a new universe (or should I rather say multiverse) emerges?

A. Fulgens

No, one can acheive complete realization either in this life, at the time of death, or in the bardo of dharmatā.

If one is a Dzogchen practitioner, even of one is a best an average practitioner i.e. the lowest capacity, there are methods to ensure rebirth in the five pure nirmanakāya buddhafields, where one will attain samyaksambuddhahood within five hundred human years, according to the texts.

Namdrol, and what would those methods be ,if i may ask?

Is not that i am an average practitioner but i hope that one day i will come to engender the hope of becoming a beginner and thus i could be called a proper "average practitioner"

AilurusFulgens wrote:Namdrol, and what would those methods be ,if i may ask?

Namdrol wrote:Rushan.

N

As found in that little pamphlet The Practice of Purification of the Six Lokas?

Yes, that among other rushans.

'khor 'das ru shan practices are called "seperation of samsara and nirvana" is that successful completion of them guarantees one will not longer be reborn in samsara, equivalent with attaining patience on the path of application.

so even fully enlightened Buddhas never really eliminate all afflictions, and the traces of those afflictions remaining after the universe dissolves back into the basis are what become the "seeds" for the next universe. the latent awareness(es) in the bardo-basis become buddhas or sentient beings depending on their recognition or not of the appearances that flash forth because of the latent afflictions. without the latent afflictions causing an "itch" (so to speak) in the basis and thus provoking the wisdoms to flash forth, the awareness(es) would remain latent, and there would be no beings, enlightened or not. in that case, personally, i'm thankful for afflicted traces!

Thoroughly tame your own mind.This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

are you saying up to and including 12th bhumi has traces and gets re-absorbed? 13th-16th counts as samyak sambuddha and doesn't get re-absorbed? so where do they hang out during that bardo period? and if the basis is rang byung ye shes, are they then not "grounded" in it (so to speak), not needing to "return" to it?

Thoroughly tame your own mind.This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.

are you saying up to and including 12th bhumi has traces and gets re-absorbed? 13th-16th counts as samyak sambuddha and doesn't get re-absorbed? so where do they hang out during that bardo period? and if the basis is rang byung ye shes, are they then not "grounded" in it (so to speak), not needing to "return" to it?

Those who have completed the fourth vision experience the universe arising as the basis [snang srid gzhir bzhengs].