September 28
2005

I have no idea if that any of that stuff mentioned on the UPN page is a spoiler or not, so it got tagged. Anyhow I know there's umpteen zillion items about Serenity going around at the moment, but I think this deserves a special mention. Charisma is a terrific actress.

Ok, so for me it's Lost tonight, but can anyone give me (or point me to) a good synopsis of season one VM(keeping in mind that I totally have ADD :~P ) that might persuade me to overcome my vcr laziness to at least tape VM? Really, I want to like it. Someone, give me a reason. (Epis 1 and 2 weren't enough for me) Someone hook me. Grab me. Give me something to love again....please.

Personally, Rogue Slayer, I *could* give you a synopsis, but it really wouldn't do anything for you if all you saw of the characters was in Epi. 1 & 2. Like Joss' shows, you really have to let the layers peel away.

Personally, Rogue Slayer, I *could* give you a synopsis, but it really wouldn't do anything for you if all you saw of the characters was in Epi. 1 & 2. Like Joss' shows, you really have to let the layers peel away

So the premise and plot aren't interesting enough to get someone watching? (All I know of it is that it's some high school gang that solves crimes, but I'm sure there's more to it)

I'll admit that I started with Buffy in season 2, and if I'd only seen season 1, I'd probably have never been hooked. Firefly, however, got me from episode one. So I know it can be done, it's just a very fine art.

No, the plot is very interesting. But the plot is almost dependent upon your becoming invested in the characters, as they're all involved in the larger mystery of Lilly Kane's murder in some form, and seeing them grow and change as a result of that, is the driving force of the season.

It's an unravelling "Whodunit?" plot with mysteries of the week as B-stories, and every episode you learn some new clue, or there's some revelation, which makes for a very engaging experience, but you really do have to like (failing that, just get to know) the characters.

I just hope the show doesn't get cheapened by an "America's next top model" being on it. Maybe that's why they're going for cameos by cult favorites like Joss and Kevin Smith - to compensate for the compromises they've had to make with UPN execs.

I was skeptical about the show, but it grew on me, especially with some of the quirky character episodes and sly references to literary and pop culture throughout. Of all the season premiers, this is the one I'm looking forward to the most - and I am high school age 3 times over!

Rouge Slayer, I'd love to be able to hook you up with the perfect summary of the first season that would be both succinct and caputure your interest, but I'm coming up short right now. Try this article for a nice overview of what's special about VM. There's also Mars Investigations, a fan run website that has gobs of information about the plot and storylines.

And for a good-old-fashioned clip show, the UPN video page has a long, long season one recap. It's not the greatest, but it does give you an idea about the general mystery of the week plots and the snappy one-liners. Major, major spoilers.

The premise and plot, much like Buffy, are hard to explain and really get to the heart of what the show is about. Girl is chosen to fight vampires = pure cheese. Girl is investigating her best friend's murder after being ostracized by all of her old friends = overdone cheese. There's great characters (as you've heard many times), tight plotting, snappy writing, excellent continuity, and tons of angst. I hope this helps.

Yes, optimistic34! It seems only logical: release the DVDs, let word and buzz spread a la Firefly, and promote the new season premiere like crazy. Does someone else who has more insight into the industry know why this isn't done??

Rogue Slayer, I don't think I'd describe it as a high school gang that solves crimes. Also, I'm among those that was mildly interested after the first few eps, watched sporadically after that, and then *really* became engrossed by the last third of the season.
What made it worth watching by me? Fabulous characters that got deeper as the season went on, and had good, consistent growth. Plots that were rarely predictable, and weren't afraid to shy away from pain and tough outcomes. Some great acting, especially by Kristin Bell and the guy who plays her father. Sublayers of mysteries and relationships that kept going deeper, and yet didn't drag you along with no hope of resolution the way some shows (ahem *Lost* ahem) tend to do.
The mysteries of the week are somewhat akin to the monsters of the week on buffy - quite often entertaining, but rarely what you tune in for. What really kept it going was the characters, the changing relationships between them, and the long-running myseries/plots of the show: Who raped Veronica, where her mother was, what her relationship was to her father (and ex-boyfriend Duncan), her changing relationship with friend-turned-enemy Logan, and, of course, who killed Lily Kane.

It's fabulous writing and great, angst-filled plot lines. I've never found the comparisons to Buffy particularly useful - and I think it can stand on its own merits - but perhaps the one element both shows really do share is a sense of high school as a place of pain and intensity Ė with exaggerated plots to show how it often feels to those going through teenage-dom.

Can't wait for tonight's premier! I'll be taping Lost, but VM i want to see in real time.

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but some UPN stations (including mine in Sacramento) are starting to repeat VM episodes during the weekend including the new stuff, so that we can see this show and Lost with a clear conscience. I think that was mentioned in the TV Gal column in Zap2It.com. I'll probably go that route.

penni, that is likely what I'll do. With CC, AH, and JW in VM this season, I guess I really have to watch. For a variety of reasons, I came and went in my watching last season, never building up any momentum, and I finally stopped watching. So I'll undoubtedly be lost initially.

Veronica Mars tonight and Serenity on Friday (and Neil Gaiman on Thursday, but that's another story). Holy crap, my adrenaline is working overtime this week.

Rogue Slayer, all I can add is...just trust us. It's a show that's very much worth getting to know. I think I mentioned before that I turned off the pilot my first time through. But I was hooked on my second attempt, and watched the entire series in three days. I literally, physically could not stop. No, it's not perfect, but it's smart, tight, and compelling.

I want to agree with everyone having heart palpatations over the Veronica Mars premiere followed swiftly by Serenity. Talk about emotional overload! And add to the drama the fact that both need to succeed on at least a modest level in order to continue. VM needs decent ratings to graduate from UPN's benevolence to an actual ratings winner, while Serenity needs to prove that it can attract an audience. It's enough to drive a girl back to being a nailbiter.

Rogue Slayer, listen -- if you liked Giles' relationship to the Scoobies, and to Buffy in particular, as a father figure among other things, you will like Veronica's relationship with her father, Keith (played so wonderfully by Enrico Colantoni of 'Just Shoot Me!' and 'Galaxy Quest' fame).

Their relationship with all its twists and turns and deep emotions over the whole season is what really made me love the show instead of just liking it.

Succatash, four eps is not nearly enough to grow to love VM. Hell, twelve episodes was not enough to get me to love Buffy. S1 of BtVS was kind of weak compared to later seasons, but I kept with it and it paid off SO much (except for 'Bad Eggs'). Same with VM -- as someone else said, it really kicks in about 2/3 of the way through the season, but you really have to watch it all in order to reach a full emotional commitment to (and love of) the characters.

as someone else said, it really kicks in about 2/3 of the way through the season, but you really have to watch it all in order to reach a full emotional commitment to (and love of) the characters.

My problem is I'm not sure that I want to be bored by the majority of a show waiting for it to kick in. I think I'm going to jump in season 2 headfirst(the resources did help to make it a bit clear what's going on) and then maybe go back for season 1 if I find I'm interested. Then I can probably tolerate the boredom a bit more, if I already know for myself it's going to pay off in the end!

Veronica Mars definitely takes a while to get into, but it's worth it, really looking forward to this season.

Not sure how I'd recommend getting into it, I didn't start watching it till a few months ago, I had the first 16 episodes when I started to watch it, and kept watching it 'cos it would have been a waste of time to give up after one episode (though I considered it when Paris Hilton guested), once you get into the story and get to know the characters it's completely worth it, I sat fixed on the screen for the last few episodes, I remember watching the penultimate episode on my laptop on a bus home from Uni and gasping (not hugely loud) "noo" when something was revealed (can't remember what).

If possible I'd recommend taping tonights the next few weeks and perhaps renting the DVD when it comes out.

Hope some of the high ratings it got on CBS carry over to these new episodes.

And anyway, Joss loves Veronica, what more do you need, they should put that on the back of the box, no need for blurb or anything.

I'm kind of surprised at how many people here keep saying it takes a ton of episodes to get hooked; I started watching on the second episode, and even Paris Hilton couldn't bring the show down for me. After watching Veronica and her dad doing their bad-cop-good-cop routine with the hotel manager, I was in love.

The characters are unbelievably well-crafted, the writing is snappy, the acting is amazing, the mysteries are fun to try to solve. The relationships on the show are remarkably subtle; I think it's far from being a "teen soap" just for that reason. The acting on the show is great enough that the scripts can get away with being subtle in leaving the character's emotions unspoken, so you never feel like you're being beaten over the head or the show is being dumbed down. Also, because all of those separate aspects of the show carry their own weight, the show really has never had a "bad" episode, which really can't be said for many shows coming right out of the gate. Some weeks the B-plot mystery weren't as good as others, some weeks were low on new information on the Lilly case, but the characters are so enjoyable that I can pretty much enjoy watching them do anything.

And personally, I really hated the way the season-long mystery was resolved in the end (though I seem to be in the minority on that point, I thought everything about the way the storyline was resolved was deeply idiotic), but despite feeling let down after a season-long build up, I still thought the finale was stellar. The character's interactions were so good and paid off so well.

I will give it another chance tonight. To compare it with Buffy: There were many many times when the teen soap opera in Buffy made me roll my eyes, but it was always saved by the kung fu, the demons, witch craft - or was I watching Buffy for the wrong reasons? With VM, I only remember an angry girl trying to figure out who put something in her locker, who slept with her that night at the party.... and I yawn. Yes, I yawn. But I will try again because I do trust you people.

I fell in love with Veronica in the first episode. I never found the episodes to be boring or anything like that. Apparently it takes some people longer to get engrossed in the characters. Watching all the episodes does have an emotional payoff, and to anyone who has watched a couple episodes and still can't get into it, I suggest you just keep watching. It gets so much better.

I used to feel like Succatash. I tried to like it but one or two episodes couldn't get me into it and I was shocked to read all of the enormous praise posts here....

Until...I happened to catch the second-to-last episode a few weeks ago. What a revelation!!! Then, I saw the S1 finale, and WOW! I am more excited about the new season tonight than ANYTHING else on TV!

Rogue Slayer, I'm betting that you will be able to jump right in to S2.

Noooooooo! I knew I should have watched VM instead of (trying to) tape it while watching Lost. Somehow my VCR screwed up (or was it the operator?). Luckily, I noticed it's on the schedule for Saturday at 6pm (is that great or what?); just hope sports or some such doesn't preempt it.

if you liked Giles' relationship to the Scoobies, and to Buffy in particular, as a father figure among other things, you will like Veronica's relationship with her father, Keith (played so wonderfully by Enrico Colantoni of 'Just Shoot Me!' and 'Galaxy Quest' fame).

Yeah, I want to like that, but you know... ASH = hot, Colantoni = not.

Don't know if anyone's going to see this comment since the thread fell off the front (arrgh) within like 14hrs or so, but here goes (might throw this in on newly discovered whedonesque.org): We in Canada are so far behind US broadcoasts -- that the finale is skedded for Oct. 9. However, through the magic of friends, I just saw the last four episodes. Unbelievable! Television! More drama amd emotion in one VM ep than in four or five episodes of any other show. I, too, didn't get hooked by the show at the beginning, lost touch and caught up again halfway through the season. (Thanks CTV!)

I've got first ep of S2 in hand now, so here I go . . . (No more commentary since it's probably a waste anyway.)