Hey they're cops, they only do good. What side of the blue line are you on anyway? Do you risk your life everyday to undermine rape victims or murder minorities?
The Catholic church is outdone only by the fraternal order of police in this country for refusing to admit any wrong or corruption. Fuck cops, we need new rules of engagement and a total overhaul of this corrupt system.

I agree, the fact that there is such a thing known as the blue wall of silence is crazy to me. So even if you follow the rules, it is frowned upon for you to report a fellow officer for doing something wrong? On what fucking planet does that make sense to anyone? If you are a cop, you are supposed to protect and serve. If you see someone abusing someone else's rights, you are supposed to intervene.

I have a forensic anthropology masters degree in genetics. Labs can be part of the problem. Those tests aren't just tossed into a cop's trunk for 8 months in, but often get added into the system. That doesn't meant that all labs are guilty by association, but that they need to be pushed into being proactive in helping stop this.

The backlog is certainly a problem. But read the article, some of these detectives are pretty damn culpable IMO and the labs never got near some of this evidence. I never realized that gathering the material for these kits was so invasive, it makes the destruction of this evidence all the worse.

The police were an issue there. They could have and should have done more than just tell her to go to the other police department.

They had the evidence. They could have and should have notified the authorities with jurisdiction, and they should have provided her transportation.

The response was from someone who didn't read the article. They weren't being criticized for not going out of their jurisdiction to make an arrest. Further, had the crime occurred in their jurisdiction they could have made an arrest. There are rules and processes for doing that, just as there are rules and processes for reporting a crime to another jurisdiction. They didn't do that.

Yes - with this I fully agree, but the person not reading the article then comments to make it sound that it was intent and not laziness. It’s not just about making a call and sending evidence. There are all kinds of things around chain of custody etc that make it difficult for the prosecution in building the case. So it takes quite a bit of effort. Which goes back to what I was trying to articulate in that the police work in a system like the rest of us, one that is flawed. Getting angry at them and saying they should be killed or hurt is applying the wrong sentiment in the wrong place. There are bad cops for sure, but there is also a system that has broken as well.

Holy shit, I read some and these are horrifying. If people ever need proof that police are not immune to sexism and bias they need to read this. Especially the one about the sex worker and how they immediately ask if he's a client and dismiss her as uncooperative as soon as they can. THIS MAKES ME SO ANGRY AND SAD!

Just curious, but say a John and a prostitute do their thing. But the John decides to not pay. So now she claims its rape. But rape is considered sexual penetration carried out against a person without their consent and she consented to the sex originally, even though it was for money. It’s only after the sex is over with and he can’t provide the money that she now takes back consent. But during the sex, she had consented. Is that still rape?? Can consent be taken back after the fact??

Isn’t that more like stealing? Or breach of contract? And since she can’t legally sell sex, does that mean she must be committing tax fraud and evasion as well?? What if the John says he did pay her but she’s claiming he didn’t?

What are the cops supposed to do?? Two wrongs don’t make a right. But you can’t help one wrong and ignore the others right? So if you’re going to help the sex worker claiming she was raped, you also have to charge her for all the crimes she’s committing as well... right??

Thanks I appreciate it. Seems like federally, you can’t be charged with rape if you’re not forced. So tricking someone by telling them you’d pay them wouldn’t count as rape :| seems like one state tried to pass a rape by deception law and failed and the only other is California, but it doesn’t cover all deception. Just impersonations to get consent.

Maybe that’s why cops don’t waste time on sex workers. At the end of the day, there’s a good chance it’s just going to get thrown out

Just a heads up, the vast majority of prostitutes’ rapes are not the situation you described, it’s johns getting violent or forcing them to do things they don’t want to, or simply using the pretext of being a John to lure them into an area that they can rape them in. Prostitutes are seen as easy targets and most will be raped more than once in their lifetimes.

Yes, this is a far more likely scenario than a sex worker filing a false rape charge because she/he did not get paid. And often law enforcement disregards sex worker allegations due to the nature of their work, which is alarming as well.

Yea I know what you mean. The harsh reality for all involved in sex work is that when you’re doing something illegal, you lose all protections and benefit of the doubt. That goes for johns too. Who are also often tricked into meetings then robbed but have no recourse because paying for sex is illegal anyways

A friend who's a nurse gave me this mnemonic about first responders: "Cops beat, firemen cheat." Domestic violence rates for cops are much higher than for the general population. Police work attracts bullies, sociopaths, rightwing authoritarians, and a lot of misogynists.

"Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic violence, (1, 2) in contrast to 10% of families in the general population.(3) A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24% (4), indicating that domestic violence is 2-4 times more common among police families than American families in general." http://womenandpolicing.com/violenceFS.asp

Observing anti-NFL rhetoric, you'd nevertheless get the impression that other employers monitor and sanction domestic abuse incidents by employees. While I have nothing against pressuring the NFL to go beyond what the typical employer does, I fear that vilifying the league has the effect of misleading the public into a belief that it is out of step with general norms on this issue. Domestic violence is less common among NFL playersthan the general population.

...

And there is another American profession that has a significantly more alarming problem with domestic abuse. I'd urge everyone who believes in zero tolerance for NFL employees caught beating their wives or girlfriends to direct as much attention—or ideally, even more attention—at police officers who assault their partners. Several studies have found that the romantic partners of police officers suffer domestic abuse at rates significantly higher than the general population. And while all partner abuse is unacceptable, it is especially problematic when domestic abusers are literally the people that battered and abused women are supposed to call for help.

In the early 20th century, the Klan burned crosses on hillsides or as a means of intimidating people they saw as targets.

In Scotland, the fiery cross, known as the Crann Tara, was used as a declaration of war. The sight of it commanded all clan members to rally to the defence of the area. On other occasions, a small burning cross would be carried from town to town. It was used in the War of 1812 between Britain and the USA as a means of mobilising the Scottish Fencibles and militia settled in Glengarry County, Ontario against the invaders, and in 1820 over 800 fighting men of Clan Grant were gathered, by the passing of the Fiery Cross, to come to the aid of their Clan Chieftainship and his sister in the village of Elgin, Canada. The last significant use in Scotland itself was in 1745, during the Jacobite rising, and it was subsequently described in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott.

So probably just something someone knew and thought he we should declare war on these black people.

Right, but people love to look into off hand comments really hard. I don't like hanging out with women because it's generally boring for me compared to hanging out with men. It's not because I hate women.

You don't hate women, you just think they're boring and don't want to interact with them?

Sounds like misogyny to me.

As in, either you have very limited experiences with being friends with women and have decided to dismiss all women based on your experience with women in your immediate social circle, OR there are plenty of women around you who are diverse and interesting but you block yourself from being able to see that based on your preconceptions.

So just putting in my two cents but I say things like this and I quite like myself on an interior level and I strongly support other women. In all actuality it is because I find it very hard to keep female friendships. In my experience they require more work an I always say the wrong things that implode when I least expect it to and they don’t usually last for me. This is not to say I’m a mean person. I couldn’t intentionally hurt anyone. It’s easier for me to maintain male friendships because they require less and aren’t usually as sensitive. The guys I consider my close friends are all in support of women bettering themselves and doing what’s best for them as well. I’ve cut many guys I considered my friends off for having grossly views of women. I guess the bottom line here is I don’t surround myself with people who make me feel negatively?

That is not correct at all; maybe for some, but like most generalizing statements, they're not true. Women dress how we do because of jobs, lifestyles, etc.. no healthy person wakes up thinking "how do I fuck over Stacey or Tom with my outfit today?"

This goes even deeper than sexism, which is of course absolutely part of it. It's a system-wide issue where police officers are actively discouraged from reporting a rape at all costs because it hurts crime numbers for police, and ultimately for the police commissioner/mayor/governor they answer to. Ever since crime started going down in the 90's, there has been significant PR pressure to keep that trend going; no one wants to be the first police commissioner/mayor/ whatever where crime actually goes up in your area for the first time in 20+ years. So it becomes the job of police officers to do whatever it takes to not report that rape as a rape (phrase their questions confusingly, not report a rape even when the victim clearly stated it as such, and now apparently destroying rape kits). This goes beyond rape, as you might imagine; police actively avoid investigating low income neighborhood murders as well to protect the crime rate, as that population is less likely to make a fuss and more likely to have murders to report.

​

The podcast Reply All did an excellent two episode overview of how this all came to be and it's both fascinating and horrifying. One of the officers talks about how he got chewed out by a superior for reporting a rape as a rape because the woman articulated herself clearly; the superior told him to take it back off the record and put it back as a 'possible sexual assault'. The especially messed up part of this whole thing? The officer had interviewed the woman (a prostitute) previously for a rape and was unable to process it as a rape because she hadn't said exactly the right thing (his penis went in my vagina. I did not consent. I told him No.). He says she clearly had been coached by someone on exactly what to say after her first rape report didn't go anywhere...

This goes even deeper than sexism, which is of course absolutely part of it. It's a system-wide issue where police officers are actively discouraged from reporting a rape at all costs because it hurts crime numbers for police, and ultimately for the police commissioner/mayor/governor they answer to. Ever since crime started going down in the 90's, there has been significant PR pressure to keep that trend going; no one wants to be the first police commissioner/mayor/ whatever where crime actually goes up in your area for the first time in 20+ years. So it becomes the job of police officers to do whatever it takes to not report that rape as a rape (phrase their questions confusingly, not report a rape even when the victim clearly stated it as such, and now apparently destroying rape kits). This goes beyond rape, as you might imagine; policy actively avoid investigating low income neighborhood murders as well to protect the crime rate, as that population is less likely to make a fuss and more likely to have murders to report.

The podcast Reply All did an excellent two episode overview of how this all came to be and it's both fascinating and horrifying. One of the officers talks about how he got chewed out by a superior for reporting a rape as a rape because the woman articulated herself clearly; the superior told him to take it back off the record and put it back as a 'possible sexual assault'. The especially messed up part of this whole thing? The officer had interviewed the woman (a prostitute) previously for a rape and was unable to process it as a rape because she hadn't said exactly the right thing (his penis went in my vagina. I did not consent. I told him No.). He says she clearly had been coached by someone on exactly what to say after her first rape report didn't go anywhere...

Incidentally, what police *are* encouraged to do in their day to day is up their 'Activity', such as making arrests, giving out tickets, etc. as a, "see we're doing so much for the community" trade-off for not pursuing the real crime as often as they should. It's sickening. Not to mention the racial profiling explicitly encouraged to meet quota on the 'Activity'. Any officer who doesn't play ball is not only not promoted, but put on the worst rotations in the worst areas as punishment/chewed out by their superiors. This has all been recorded on tape by some brave NYPD police officers trying to fight against this. The podcast Reply All did an excellent two episode overview of how this all came to be and it's both fascinating and horrifying. One of the officers talks about how he got chewed out by a superior for reporting a rape as a rape because the woman articulated herself clearly; the superior told him to take it back off the record and put it back as a 'possible sexual assault'. The especially messed up part of this whole thing? The officer had interviewed the woman (a prostitute) previously for a rape and was unable to process it as a rape because she hadn't said exactly the right thing (his penis went in my vagina. I did not consent. I told him No.). He says she clearly had been coached by someone on exactly what to say after her first rape report didn't go anywhere...

That's exactly right. I haven't seen the Wire but I'm glad there's some form of mainstream media even mentioning this as news media doesn't seem to be interested in reporting. Put a group of people in a job and tell them their funding depends on certain numbers, you can be assured that that group of people is going to do whatever it takes to manipulate those numbers and trample those who try to ask whether it's right. This is gutting both our kids' education and our ability to bring rapists and murderers to justice on a national scale and hardly anyone is talking about it yet.

The police are not your friends. They are, in general, corrupt, lazy, inept, incompetent and available for sale to the highest bidder. They are an armed criminal gang that society is forced to endure because they sometimes go after other criminals. You should never voluntarily interact with police unless you have a lawyer with you THAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR.

I have two brothers. Both were cops. I agree with your statement. The stories you hear make you cringe but the worst part is how they cover for each other like a frat house covering for each others cheating and rule breaking. The police are all corrupt because they force out any that don't want to lie for their buddies in blue...

And they work for the state. They aren't doing any moral justice. They abide by and enforce laws. Laws that deliberately harm, do injustice, and dehumanize your fellow person. There are no good cops. Good people. But NO GOOD COPS.

While they are biased, there is a point here. Talking to them outside a situation in which you need immediate help, without a lawyer, is never going to help you. Their goal is gathering evidence to charge people with crimes.

If only there were some organization of people with guns who could enforce the law and ensure that this 'minority' didn't abuse their power....

And I don't really agree with you on the bad cops being a 'minority.' Even if we accept (for the sake of argument) that only 15-20% of cops are 'bad' there's another 80-85% that cover for their crimes which makes them just as guilty and corrupt. The only 'good' cops you hear about are the ones that are drummed out of the job or killed like Serpico by their 'brothers' because they kept making waves. The result is a well organized and corrupt gang.

What's the factual basis of your claim that "most police are good people"? How do you define "good people"? The evidence suggests promotion in police departments is based on the ability to get along, get results no matter the legality, and cover for other cops. It's a system that rewards bad cops and chases good cops out.

I've read about how the kits arent being used properly by poorly trained medical workers and end up inadmissible for prosecution. I couldn't even imagine having to go through being raped and thinking I was taking all the proper steps to protect myself and get the person who assaulted me behind bars and to find out the rape kit was inadmissible or that it was destroyed

The article outlines what some precincts and states are doing, and that is certainly a start. But pressure from the public is a great way to get the ball rolling for more in-depth investigations to take place. I’ve been researching my state and cannot find zilch for data, save for an audit conducted in ONE county. That audit found that just shy of 22% of kits were actually tested over about a 15 year timespan. And this audit came about due to outside pressure to investigate, so I am all for putting public pressure on prosecutors and law enforcement agencies to be audited.

You should be careful about taking too much from that data. While the rate may indeed be low, you also have to keep in mind that a rape kit is usually only relevant when the accused is either not known, or has denied the encounter. Many instances of rape do not revolve around if sex happened but if consent was gained, in which case a rape kit is relatively pointless.

Sexual assault cases can also get rape kits done. Rape kits are essentially evidence collection and, as the short video at the start of article demonstrates, takes a variety of samples, pictures, clothing, and testimony to build a case.

If she had reported the crime to the Montgomery County Goons, a nurse goon would have immediately re traumatized Dr. Ford. This would have generated a rape kit. Then after a certain number of months a police goon would have quietly disposed of it.

Forensic Nurse Examiners are not goons by any stretch of the imagination. FNEs have to go through extensive training and make the decision to be a medical first responder in a time of extreme crisis for individuals. It is not for the faint of heart. Now an ER nurse who hasn’t had proper training to handle a rape kit and cases of SA/DV can be considered inexperienced, yes, but to call them goons is an egregious mistake.

Y’all wanna make a difference instead of arguing? Call your state reps and ask for audits for each county, including prosecutors and law enforcement, to see how the county handles, stores, and destroys kits . Help support bills that extend or altogether do away with statutes of limitations on reporting and the storage of rape kits. Encourage efforts to support funding the storage for rape kits.

From a numbers game point of view, don't bother with difficult rape allegations when you can just nab someone with drugs. Drugs are easy, "had drug, go to jail". Did rape? Well now we gotta do a lot of work, investigate, find witnesses, analyze crime scene. Too much work for a conviction.

Realistically, though, different units are going to be investing those cases. Not to say less solvable crimes don't get sometimes overlooked for more solvable ones, but it's not that straightforward. Same goes for parking tickets (to the other commenter in this thread). Detectives don't issue parking tickets.

But you are right. I think many rape cases are considered by law enforcement agencies to be hard to pursue (even when they're not) and detectives aren't currently incentivized enough to spend the amount of time on them that they should.

It's what the state (not literal States, but like government) prefers more than that. It has nothing to do with safety. The state doesnt care about anybody's safety.

Tickets and fees are a way for the state/county to tax its populace without having to vote in favor of taxing its populace.

It's the easiest way the Police can bring revenue into the state. If they go after the TRULY heinous shit a lot of times it's a lot of work, possibly leads nowhere, and - the real kicker - costs a lot of money.

I assume you are kidding, but it won't matter much. Chain of custody would likely mean that anything they return to you would be completely meaningless. It also would likely not return much of value as the cases where police did similar things in the past were to narrow down suspects based on family DNA, you are unlikely to get a direct match.

Yeah I was being facetious. But the shit way law enforcement mishandles rape kits makes me want to take the kits out of their hands and do it in a better, caster way than their bloated beauracracy can.

People want to paint police as heroes when they’re just some lazy fucks doing a job like the rest of us. The gotta keep their stats down and just make it one more week to collect a paycheck. All while getting hard one for having a gun and a badge. In my city I know of two women that went to the cops and they were like “they’re just nothing we can do”

I used to work in a lab that stored kits and would discard them after a set period of time. It never sat right with me, but the short version is that public safety funding is always a fight and one of the first things to go is storage of anything that is perceived to be unlikely to be of value. The accepted viewpoint was that if a victim didn't press charges within a year, they probably weren't going to. The ability of DNA evidence to identify patterns in crimes years old is easily recognized now, but that's where they drew the line.

Public safety budgets are so difficult because everyone wants statistics to justify every decision and sometimes the right thing isn't the cheapest thing and officials don't want to be accused of frivolous spending. It creates some really messed up conflicts. We were admonished for wasting gloves while simultaneously trying to follow proper procedure for DNA collection.

So what you're saying is, at the root of this issue, sitting right next to mysogyny as one of the causes, is capitalism. Makes sense. If only we could quantify the damage/ cost to human life in a dollar amount, maybe people would start to give a shit? How much is a woman's life worth? Her safety? Her happiness? How much will the economy lose when she takes a month off work to recover from the trauma of a rape, whose perpetrator will never be prosecuted? When she loses her sense of security and can't leave the house alone, how much money does that cost the rest of us? Unfortunately it seems like those statistics are the only things that will matter to the people in charge.

Thanks for trying to shift blame back onto victims. Isn't it still valuable to have the DNA evidence tested, even if charges won't be filed? Rapists are often repeat offenders, and finding them is easier if their DNA is already in a computer system. There is no excuse for throwing out a rape kit before even having it tested.

My point is throwing it out without testing it, because of the trauma endured in gathering the evidence, is disrespectful and unethical. It tells the victim, regardless of the reason, that her experience doesn't matter, the wounds she suffered doesn't matter, the 2nd violation of her body that she went through to gather the evidence was a waste of time.

A) More evidence doesn't hurt. What if his previous conviction is overturned? Then that thrown out rape kit, which could have provided evidence to keep him locked up, is useless.

B) Evidence is proof. If he said, she said, and his cum is in the rape kit, tossing it without testing is throwing away the chance at justice. At the very least, test it. If there is no usable evidence, then fine. But how can you know if there is no testing done?

C) Victims are discouraged from prosecuting partly BECAUSE people tell them their kits are useless/won't have useable evidence. And the trauma of rape makes people act differently. Tons of women who say they would prosecute any rapist, when the time comes, struggle to make the decision. If she changes her mind because she thought she had time and now that she's worked through the trauma she's ready to take action and wants to prosecute and you threw out the DNA evidence already, without telling her there was even a possibility of that happening? Justice cannot be served.

All B says is that there was a non-violent sexual encounter (i.e., no signs of bruising/violence associated with non-consensual sex, ergo the he said/she said) happened, and there’s now disputes regarding the level of consent.

That’s evidence of sex occuring, not rape. Unless you take modern colleges’ hyper-Title IX “all accusations = rape” stance and disregard the notion someone is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, it’s not.

If she changes her mind because she thought she had time and now that she's worked through the trauma she's ready to take action and wants to prosecute and you threw out the DNA evidence already, without telling her there was even a possibility of that happening? Justice cannot be served.

why on earth should such police officers be retained on the force, and be allowed to keep their pension?

the 7-year old looked away from me during questioning, so I concluded she was lying, ergo rape never happened.
Recommended psychological treatment of girl to parents, authorised rape kit destruction.
Just another day at the office.

Yep, I'm never reporting a rape if it ever happens to me again. I never have (because they don't care) and if it ever happens to me again I guess it's something I'm going to have to take care of myself tbh I'm so broken by how much men and even women hate women and female bodied/minded humans.

As a young 19 year old I tried to walk into a police station and report a sexual assault. I was taken advatage of after falling asleep at a campsite. The officer told me there was nothing he could do, turned and walked away because it wasn't his county. Because of this I got no help and when I was later roofied and dragged to a hotel I didn't go to the police, nor when I was raped by a date and knocked up. I paid for that abortion with no help as well.

Exactly. This is the hell female bodied humans deal with. I am sorry those horrid things happened to you.

It started when I was 8 and didn't stop until I was 23 (I don't go out much and I don't trust now) and it was all different people from different places with different lives. I was never skinny, I always layered my clothing, hid behind glasses and fat and still the teen males and men I trusted were not people who should have been trusted.

The last time it happened the man only stopped because he knew he was too drunk to stop me from pushing him down a flight of stairs and I would have, I gave him two very clear warnings and he was smart enough to listen, when I ran down those stairs I found he'd locked the door, no one would have been able to save me even if they had heard me without busting the door down. I wasn't going to be raped again and that's how I live.

Oh!! Sorry~ I was worried about saying I was going to have to take care of it myself because that can sound like a threat to some so I thought that's was scared you. (I've heard that a lot, sorry for assuming!)

That’s weird of people. That aspect is scary as well but certainly not in a threatening way, more in a “what kind of society is this that people are suffering crimes and must fend for themselves” kind of a way. It’s existential horror.

I’m just sorry that you’ve been through all of that. I hope things are going well for you.

In purely scientific standards practice, not counting what’s at stake here, destruction of samples is contrary to every principle, every recognised process, and apparent in no methodology ever, anywhere.

So, clearly, this is a corruption of investigation process... on purpose.

Where are you getting this 0.1%? The article says dozens of agencies, but likely even more. There are 17,985 police departments in the US, so your quote would equal seventeen departments; dozens (as per the article) would imply at least twenty-four departments, but likely more. So, I'm not sure what you're trying to say: either you've made up a number to simply say that it's not enough to care about, or insinuating that destroying rape kits is the ONLY fucked up thing about the US (considering my comment was much broader in scope) ?

I just don’t get how you can choose to take on this type of responsibility of enforcing the law only to be so shortsighted and selfish. Police officers who do this undermine and give the officers who would do their job for free just to help people a bad name. It’s shit like this that makes me feel the most hopeless for this country.

Did anyone actually read it the whole way through? Most of the kits that were destroyed were due to reason such as the cases going cold, lack of evidence to cause an actual criminal hearing to be held against the accused or because the accuser decided to stop going after who they were accusing. It wasn’t just a bunch of cops going “hey earl, did you beleive that girl? No? K then im gonna get rid of this kit.”

Well yeah because they just sit there on a shelf. In the military, while taking sharp courses, we learned that sometimes the kits sit there for 2-4 years before being destroyed. And even then, the one's that aren't destroyed are sometimes unusable. So yeah, it would make sense that they're destroyed before the statute comes around.

"US" police is a silly statement. Every police department is ran on its own and has its own rules and guidelines. Making a blanket statement like this is stupid. What they do in a small rural town in Idaho is probably completely different than LAPD.

If anything maybe say "many police department do this" and give us statistics on what percentage do. I'm sure there are tons that don't do this.

If you actually read the article, you'll find out it's 0.1% of police departments that are believed to have done this. In other words, pick literally any city and there is a 99.9% chance they handle rape evidence correctly.

Either CNN is so bad at investigating that they found a less than 1% incidence and still reported on it without looking for an actually significant number or someone fumbled upon the 17 departments and told someone else (and so on until it got to whoever published the article) and the headline played up the amount which is attributable to idiocy and people being bad at their jobs in order to get hysterical people to share the link.

No, I ask that they accurately describe the events and facts they uncover, without an agenda. Anything beyond that, as was the case with this article, is no better than National Inquirer level hysteria.

If you can honestly read the headline and still stand by your statement, you should work on your tribalism.

The only agenda I can think of is an agenda to ensure rape kits are properly processed in America, surely that's an agenda you can get behind?

The headline I see on CNN website is "Destroyed: How the trashing of rape kits failed victims and jeopardizes public safety". I stand by my statement and I'm honestly baffled (maybe because I'm not American), how on earth is my stance tribalistic in any way???

So you reject in-depth investigation simply because it comes from CNN? Did you even read the article? You can do the research yourself and find that they are not wrong in the information they’ve uncovered, rather than wholesale reject the findings.

Ive worked at a PD and handled rape kits in evidence regularly. Yes some rape kits get tossed before the state of limitations or weeks after. Trust me this is complicated and not a case of police hating women. Quite simply its the hard truth about limitations of the system, logistical constraints and the fact that some rape kits dont contain any valuable information about the suspect, or exculpatory evidence has emerged that shows the rape simply didnt happen.

These types of stories enrage me to no end because its bad journalism looking for blame and not an actual workable solution, and doesnt seek to help the public understand the issue or the fact police departments themselves are not always to blame here.

Edit: if you have a specific question im more than happen to try to answer based off by experience. I am no way saying rape is not an awful crime or thats it should not be fully investigated.

Edit: thank you for the people who actually asked question or engaged politely with me without attacking me personally or implying i am somehow pro-rape. I care about this issue and want it solved and i think more information and experience is how we start.

Imagine if this was murder evidence they were destroying. Your whole argument that there are "limitations of the system, logistical constraints and the fact htat some 'murder evidence' don't contain valuable information about the suspect' would sound incredibly indifferent to the fact that this evidence is the only thing allowing for justice to ultimately be served in court.

Just because rape kits sometimes don't solve a crime is no reason for so many to be missing.

Systemic issues like this are often not the result of an open policy of sexism or discrimination, but an overall feeling that certain crimes or groups of people are not "as important" as others, and without someone like CNN shining a light on these problems, I don't see how you or anyone could expect the public to cause enough political pressure to solve the issue.

Saying that journalism is bad because they blame the police for their own mishandling of evidence is a little much also. Should they be writing about how it's totally fine that rape kits get routinely destroyed within weeks? Are you accusing them of blatantly lying? They say that this is based on the police departments own records, which presumably are now public information.

Let's suppose you are the police, and you come into possession of an item that was present at a murder scene. Upon inspection, there is nothing of interest about this item. There is no blood on it, no finger prints, nothing. It is, from all initial appearances, inconsequential and irrelevant.

Do you retain this item in your evidence room?

I would say no. Apparently irrelevant evidence should not be retained.

If you say yes, what are you proposing exactly? That EVERY item at the murder scene be retained in the evidence room? For potentially years, even decades?

And what if the murder scene is outside? What are we talking about, exactly? Preserving the entire scene? Well, what is the "scene", exactly? How much stuff are we preserving here? The entire street? The city block? Multiple blocks? Do we stop ... ever?

Whatever we preserve, we have to preserve this in a secure way, in a secure "evidence room", so what are we doing? Building entire secure warehouses? Wait, what if a murder scene IS a warehouse? Do we keep the entire warehouse preserved?

It seems to me you either have to retain everything, or the only other alternative is that you do not retain some things. And if you are going to not retain some things, I would suggest not retaining the stuff that appears irrelevant.

One would imagine a rape kit is something that, in the abstract, we would think is likely to be relevant. But what if that is not true in a particular case? What if we take a look at it and say "there is nothing apparently relevant here".

In this situation, shouldn't we treat the rape kit like we would treat any other item of apparently irrelevant evidence? And if not, why not? What makes the rape kit special verses evidence from that murder case we threw away because of its apparent irrelevance?

Wow. Straw man after straw man after straw man. No one said to preserve every piece of evidence at a rape scene. Just the rape kit, you know, the most important piece of evidence. The appropriate analogy would be the murder weapon, or any evidence that likely contains the killers dna. I’m very certain those aren’t ever thrown out because the department didn’t think they were relevant. Obviously if a rape kit provides zero dna besides the victims, it can be tossed. Where exactly does it say that all kits being thrown out contain only victim dna?

Right, and the article states nearly 80% of those destroyed were never tested for dna evidence. So we aren’t talking about kits that don’t have the attackers dna, because it isn’t known what dna they contained.

i'm finding it interesting that the fact that rape kits get tossed out without examination you seem to dismiss nonchalantly as a fact of life divorced from any responsibility of the police department, yet the fact it gets reported enrages you.

i'm curious in what cases the police department is not to blame? and in the cases where police departments are to blame, can you see the chilling effect this would have on women taking the step of reporting? and ultimately the catch 22 of the stance of telling women that unless they take the step of reporting their rape doesn't count, and yet when they do report, many kits are destroyed?

There are tens of thousands- if not more- rape kits around the country that haven't been tested. I don't know how the earlier commenter can confidently claim they didn't have any evidence of a crime.

ProPublica and This American Life reported on a woman some years back who was raped in her apartment by a stranger, bullied by police into pleading guilty to making a false report, and then the rapist was caught in another state.

Her rape kit was probably one of those getting labeled as "proven wrong" before testing.

Do you have a specific question? I will give an example of logistical constraints. In my state, there are only 3 labs that do the testing for the entire state. 3. Which mean out department can only sent a few a year and it takes 4-6 months if not longer to get the kit tested and returned. That means detectives have to be selective about which kits they send. Because rape kits come in every week or so, that mean the backlog will never end unless the state adds about 40 extra labs. Thats not the department fault.

In my experience rape kits are destroyed if they dont have any valuable info ( they were dont at the time for an abundance of caution but the victim and advises no penetration occurred) or theres exculpatory evidence that shows the penetrative rape couldn’t possibly of occurred.

“We get a lot of crime and we can’t realistically solve them all. Naturally we just have to give up on some cases. We get a lot of women reporting rape, and we know at least some of them must be lieing, so we just drop a lot of those cases. You know, cause fuck it.” -An extremely incompetent person.

Evidence in an active case should never be destroyed, obviously. It’s not like rape kits take up significant amounts of space, departments can definitely manage to hold onto them until the case is closed. The only reason to destroy a kit before the case is closed is complete apathy towards the victim.

An active case is not the same as a case where the statue of limitations have not run out. It wasnt never my experience or knowledge that a rape kit for an active case was ever destroyed.

And rape kits do take up a lot of space. Ive personally handled hundreds. We cannot manage to hold evidence forever, since its added to every day. I see this as someone who has actually been in an evidence locker and not just seen one on CSI or NCIS.

“Some within weeks of being collected.” That is not even close to enough time to decide a case is over. What if new evidence or witnesses arise after the kit was destroyed?

If your evidence locker is full, get a bigger one. Poor budgeting is no excuse for dismissing extremely serious crimes. No one said being a cop is easy. If you decide to be one, you don’t get to decide some cases are thrown out because the department can’t be bothered with finding space for evidence.

If a department can literally hold no more evidence in their locker, there’s a budgeting issue. If there is literally no other area where some money could be taken from, the department is severely underfunded. I’m sure this does happen, but there has to be evidence of petty crimes that could be thrown out before rape kits. When I was a kid, some friends and I door bell ditched people while wearing a horse mask. The cops confiscated it from me. They hold onto it for a year and a half. If they can find space for toys used by kids pulling pranks, they can find space for actual, very serious crimes. Admittedly my example is anecdotal, but so are yours.

I agree its a budget issue. The problem is cities where theres the most crime, generally have a low tax base. When i was there we where short 20 officers. Trust me ive agonized over this much more than you have.

Space is an issue for all crimes as well.

Edit; “if americans can throw out food they cant eat, why are people starving!?!”

Statue of limitations can be decades and the case can already be fully adjudicated and the rape kit tested. Some rape kits are tossed after weeks if exculpatory evidence is found or its clear from overwhelming evidence no rape occurred.

Yes some rape kits get tossed before the state of limitations or weeks after. Trust me this is complicated and not a case of police hating women. Quite simply its the hard truth about limitations of the system,

These types of stories enrage me to no end because its bad journalism looking for blame and not an actual workable solution,

I would like to know the names of the officers who handled that seven year old's case and destroy their lives. Utterly. Completely. Don't you dare try to explain that it was logistic or didn't have information. You are clearly part of the problem.

Do you have a actual specific question? I am trying to help but theres so much ignorance about a complicated process. I cant speak about specific cases i did not work on, but general untested rape kits are due to a lack of labs and capacity. Quick fact, my state only had threee labs for every department and it took 6 months to get it back, despite getting 2 -6 rape kits a month. Basic math tells you that will create an inescapable backlog.

what i'm reading are bullshit excuses. there's no reason to toss it because of incompetence, lack of staffing or whatever the fuck that allows for a backlog. dont. throw. out. the. rape-kit. like jfc. you're gaslighting people for being furious at your response like "hey im not a bad guy im just here to provide a different vantage point and response/shed light and patronizing shit like "basic math der der" and you really come across nonchalant as fuck. do you realize? so the substance of all you're saying is, "well, hey it's understandable, im an expert and this needs to be fixed..." meanwhile...what happens to victims whose rape-kits were chucked because of an industry wide level fuck up of police-officers? if this is the best police can do, then you, sir, and your peers need to not be handling this anymore. it's incredibly infuriating.

Do you have a specific question? I was not advocating for destroying rape kits of active cases, nor do I have any experience of that occurring. If i come off nonchalant is because I'm not basing my statements off raw emotion but sobering experience. I'm more than happy to give you personal insight into this problem as long as you're respectful. I want to solve this as well.

I understand the problem completely: Police are worse than useless at combating these incidents, and should not be responsible for their handling at all, because it's clearly not something they are good at.

The police system does not exist to protect and prosecute individuals, it's a protection racket for private capital, making money off of fees and private prison kickbacks. There's no incentive for it to investigate rapes vs catching hapless bums.

Limits on the system is not is not a valid reason. Logistical constraints are not a valid reason. You don't know if any valuable information about a suspect was there because it was never tested. Other evidence emerging only matters if the victim flat out said she lied and even then an investigation into any tampering should be done before anything is destroyed. It's not bad journalism because you once worked somewhere and decided there were valid reasons in your own head to do this stuff. That's the hard truth.

Example based off my experience: if you get 2-4 rape kits a month, and it takes 4-6 months to send a rape kit to one of the only three labs. The state, how does that not create an inescapable backlog? Btw sending all kits indiscriminately gets them send back by the state crime lab untested. Detectives have to send rape kits where it will actually help the case ie where the id of the suspect is unknown, where penetration actually occurred.

No sir. The hard truth is there needs to be a better system in place instead of people like you who excuse away these kits not getting tested. Police are not to blame for the lack of process happening with the kits, they are however to blame for destroying them. Instead they should lend their voice to the others about awareness of this issue. Speak out and speak out often and become the squeaky wheel. Others have managed to get rid of the backlog, maybe they should take notes on how it was done instead of continuing to make excuses and judgments about things like you have here.

The same way others have before. The first step is not deciding something written is bad journalism because of reasons you claim are valid and okay. They aren't. More awareness is good, excuses for why it happens are not.

You aren’t answering. The example i gave was my daily dilemma. How do u solve that fact that the state lab can only take 6-12 kits a year from your department yet you get 3 times that or more a year? These arent excuses this reality from someone who has worked in the trenches and desperately wants this to be solved as well.

I did answer you. You just don't like it and won't look into how the issue has been solved elsewhere. That's not my problem. I'm not here to spoon feed you. Especially since nothing being said to you seems to be getting through to you. My time is better spent elsewhere than trying to convince you how ignorant your statement was.

The same way others have before. The first step is not deciding something written is bad journalism because of reasons you claim are valid and okay. They aren't. More awareness is good, excuses for why it happens are not.

"The way others have before" is not an answer, it's a dismissal that suggests that you don't actually know what the answer is, but that you think/hope it's somewhere out there. If you've got it, provide it. But saying the equivalent of "educate yourself" is not providing a solution of any kind, don't pretend it is. Hilariously, you also pull out that exact line later in replies. Completely unhelpful.

"Eight years after a routine tour of a Detroit police storage warehouse uncovered 11,341 untested rape kits, a Michigan prosecutor has managed to test 10,000 of them, identifying 817 serial rapists in the process. Speaking with The Detroit Free Press, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said that there are an estimated “400,000 untested rape kits” nationwide, and that their analysis had found that “a rapist rapes on averages seven to 11 times before they’re caught.”'

If there's an inescapable backlog for that department's lab, do you have any suggestions for getting them tested before the statute of limitations is up for open cases?

How do you reconcile the ever-increasing budget for grenade launchers of police departments that seemingly has the purpose of increased militarization, with your statement that "the police departments themselves are not always to blame here."? To me, it would seem that if more resources are required to properly enforce the law, it's the department's duty to their employers (the taxpayers) to see that happen. I don't see how assault rifles and military trucks in non-swat situations help the citizens find justice. Those are luxury items that should only be sought out after they get their ducks in a row.

Do you think the system is okay how it is right now?

If there's an inescapable backlog for that department's lab, do you have any suggestions for getting them tested before the statute of limitations is up for open cases? Is it jus

This decision is made by the detective. In my experience no one on the planet care more about rape victims then these people. These are the people who are getting up at 4am to interview a 5yo who was raped by his by his 12yo brother, who was being raped by his father. (real situation). They see rapists get off or released after a couple years despite committing the most heinous crimes. They regularly go above and beyond to put the worse people away. I say that because its very easy to just generalize sex crimes detectives as uncaring people, but in reality they are literally the departments most dedicated and well-trained. Destroying rape kits involves several factors: 1) has the kit been tested ( if so the actual kit may be destroyed after the case is closed). 2)Is the case still active? ( I've never known of an active case destroying a rape kit) 3) Is the rape a rape ( penetration of the mouth, anus or vagina)? Sometimes rape kits are requested or done out of an abundance of caution by the reporting officer despite no actual claim of penetration, in which case a rape kit is useless. Other evidence is used in that case.

Do you have the authority to make that decision?

I never had the authority to unilaterally make that decision. I did suggest some cases be destroyed, but had to go through a chain with the prosecutor and/or the detective assigned or Sgt. of the division

If there's an inescapable backlog for that department's lab, do you have any suggestions for getting them tested before the statute of limitations is up for open cases?

Not really. I've agonized about this, but let me assure you. The vast majority of untested kits in my experience were not from rapes "fit" for prosecution; meaning the victim recanted, exculpatory evidence was presented, there was no penetration, victim was unable to be contacted or found ( this happens A LOT), victim refuses to cooperate (often happens a lot especially when the suspect is a significant other) I also want to clarify a common misconception propagated by television. Your garden variety PD does not have "a lab" that tests rape kits. Unless its a massive city, most PDs have to send a limited number a year to one of the few state labs. This can take 6 months to send and get back. That's why detectives have to sent the kits that have the highest urgency, and evidence. Cases will be lost otherwise. There has to be a priority cases to be sent. Its simple math. An untested rape kit does not mean a case is not investigated or people do not go to jail. Sometimes a kit does not need to be tested until trial which is years later.

How do you reconcile the ever-increasing budget for grenade launchers of police departments that seemingly has the purpose of increased militarization, with your statement that "the police departments themselves are not always to blame here."? To me, it would seem that if more resources are required to properly enforce the law, it's the department's duty to their employers (the taxpayers) to see that happen. I don't see how assault rifles and military trucks in non-swat situations help the citizens find justice. Those are luxury items that should only be sought out after they get their ducks in a row.

While the militarization of police and expensive SWAT toys was always a source of irritation for me, they aren't the solution to this problem. Its kinda like saying the reason a kid can't afford college is because he buys video games and eats out a lot. One is relatively inexpensive and the other is massively expensive, cutting out one will not make a dent in the other. People ( detectives, state employees lab techs, and lab equipment) are multi-million dollar expenses. Not buying a new police car won't fix that. I get this complaint a lot, and while I see the conventional wisdom of it, when you sit in front of a spreadsheet is just doesn't add up. ( not to mention a lot of the SWAT toys are granted, gifted or reduced cost provided by the federal government. Different revenue streams are involved here). As far as assault rifles go, the North Hollywood shooting changed the thinking those aren't necessary ( legendary police incident that involved police being out gunned by suspects and had to go buy rifles to suppress the threat). This is important as bad guys have increasing deadly firepower.

Edit:

Do you think the system is okay how it is right now?

Really too broad a question but in short, no. But i see the fault mostly with simple economics and a lack of resources. Kids die each day from starvation, not because theres not enough money or food in the world, but because theres a lack of targeted resources to get him/her food. Rich PD departments with a huge tax base have lower crime then poor cities with no tax base and high crime. How do you fix that inequity? I don't know.

You're giving bs answers to issues that the article raised, trying to change them into something you feel better with. Sorry but there weren't magical caring detectives and you're just some dude in the internet trying to bs other people.

has anyone noticed that when it comes to sexual assault, rape, etc the "reasonable" responses are "let's not get hysterical we need more information, blah blah" as if being hysterical is actually a wrong response to something that is violence against another human being. that shit vexes me. yes, it's an issue that makes a lot of people emotional and if you come across defending shit that you know is fucked up wrt the matter, you'll be attacked. that doesn't automatically make those reacting illogical, silly, emotional and unhinged. the reason it elicits such a strong reaction is because it's gone on for so long and only recently really starting to gain momentum in the ways of awareness, justice and correction of things that allowed it to continue unchecked for so long.

has anyone noticed that when it comes to sexual assault, rape, etc the "reasonable" responses are "let's not get hysterical we need more information, blah blah" as if being hysterical is actually a wrong response to something that is violence against another human being. that shit vexes me. yes, it's an issue that makes a lot of people emotional and if you come across defending shit that you know is fucked up wrt the matter, you'll be attacked. that doesn't automatically make those reacting illogical, silly, emotional and unhinged. the reason it elicits such a strong reaction is because it's gone on for so long and only recently really starting to gain momentum in the ways of awareness, justice and correction of things that allowed it continue unchecked for so long.

It's because having worked in this field I've processed those emotions already. I've also had to deal with the sobering reality of limitations and constraints and things that are one one, despite it being awful. Do you have a specific question? I feel like everyone is venting without trying to solve anything

Staying mad and upset is part of what helps change things that are wrong. Stop with the “I’m above it cuz I’ve gotten over the emotion and know the excuses.” Everyone who is outraged, stay that way and maybe the people who can make a difference will finally do so.

Police probably shouldn’t handle rape/rape kits. Or someone needs to overhaul the whole system and retrain. They’ve FUBAR’d as far as I’m concerned and throw in all the other shady awful shit that happens to minorities and women at the hands of some police, I’m cool with them not having as much influence, power and presence. They’ve proven themselves incapable and incompetent

So if police domt handle rape kits, who does? Who collects them, tags them into evidence, and sends them To the lab? How do they use it for evidence to build a case if they cannot handle the kit? How does this solve any issue?