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Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

While I get what you're saying...Roy got his contract based on his 2011 play and the assumption he'd be as good or better.

He's been incredibly worse. Does he even have 1 game of better than 50% shooting?

He's shooting in the mid 30's, missing layups and tip's, turning it over...his defense has been sensational, but he's a massive negative force offensively. How incredible does he have to be defensively to offset his absurdly bad offense (so far)?

Right now, they're both playing like $5M-$8M guys. I assume Hibbert will be better...but at this exact moment give me Javale. At least he wont take 12 shots a game and miss 9.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Roy will be a starting center in the NBA for a long time to come (barring injury) probably a decade or more & McGee can't even start right now over Kosta Kofus.

The same Kosta kofus that played Roy to a standstill at times? He's a good Center as well. The real reason George Karl brings JaVale off the bench is so he can play alongside Andre Miller. He said as much at the beginning of the season.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

How did you expect him to get better? What new skill were you looking for?

I know you didn't ask me, but I will take a shot at this anyway. I was skeptical about signing Roy to his current contract in the first place, but felt that so long as he continued to improve he would have a chance of living up to his contract. As far as improvements go, first I think a face up game is absolutely mandatory for Roy to develop. He's not strong enough to hold post position for long, so he really needs the ability to keep defenses honest from a little farther out. It would be nice if he could develop a few more post moves as well. He has become so predictable in the post that defenders just push him off his spot and watch him throw up a wildly inaccurate baby hook.

I know you didn't ask me, but I will take a shot at this anyway. I was skeptical about signing Roy to his current contract in the first place, but felt that so long as he continued to improve he would have a chance of living up to his contract. As far as improvements go, first I think a face up game is absolutely mandatory for Roy to develop. He's not strong enough to hold post position for long, so he really needs the ability to keep defenses honest from a little farther out. It would be nice if he could develop a few more post moves as well. He has become so predictable in the post that defenders just push him off his spot and watch him throw up a wildly inaccurate baby hook.

Roy has developed a little bit of a face up game. Not much of one, but he is hitting the 15 footer with some consistency when open.

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Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I'm really eager to see what the next 9 games show us. I'll be sure to update this after game #30.

However, at this point we should all agree that it's inexcusable for a 7'2" Center that takes the majority of his shots from within 10 feet to shoot less than 45%. I expect all Centers to shoot at least 50% especially one that is as big as Roy Hibbert.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Bump.

I know this is a little old and that Javale was injured this past season but I still wonder if the Pacers would be better off with a more athletic center that can consistently finish at the rim like Javale. The injury really makes it hard to tell but I'd be very interested in seeing how Javale would play if he was in the Pacers lineup and how the Pacers would play offensively.

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

I know this is a little old and that Javale was injured this past season but I still wonder if the Pacers would be better off with a more athletic center that can consistently finish at the rim like Javale. The injury really makes it hard to tell but I'd be very interested in seeing how Javale would play if he was in the Pacers lineup and how the Pacers would play offensively.

We have plenty of people capable of turning the ball over. Sorry JaVale, that means we have no role for you here

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Javale is maybe the most athletic 5 in the league, not named Dwight Howard, but doesn't seem to give a crap and he missed almost all of last year with injury. Roy is maybe the most unathletic big in the league, who cares so much it weighs on him so heavy it destroys his psyche. They are almost polar opposite physically and mentally, imo. Roy will work, Javale, well I'm saying not his strength to take this seriously.

Even with the mess of the last half of this season and the 6 horrific outings in the playoffs AND the exploitations of Roys limitations AND his crazy salary.... You have to take Roy over Javale everytime. Javale could retire tomorrow and I wouldn't be surprised. Roy's at least gonna try.

Look I'm disgusted with how this went down too, but McGee and Roy comparison really isn't fair to Roy in any way. It's not close. Unless you think that your that girl who can fix him, save him mentality, I'm not sure you want anythign to do with McGee.

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Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

For all of Hibbert's issues, I'd say the deck is pretty stacked in Hibbert's favor now. The whole intrigue with McGee is whether he could develop enough game to make use of his athletic gifts... 2 years later, he's still the same old McGee that everyone loves (to make fun of).

As for the injury - he was extremely horrible before he got injured. No, I don't think we would have been better off with McGee. George Karl probably got the most out of him the previous year, and even then Karl knew to restrict him to small doses.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Also, I question anyone who thinks McGee is even worth looking. Do you actually watch the games? Or just stats?

I watched him a ton, cause in our fantasy league he's awesome FPPM guy, but never plays alot of mins, though. He is really fun to watch, he'll block jump shots from nowhere, he max protects the lane, crazy wing span. He completely can shut down the lane. Reminds me of Anthony Davis but maybe longer. He also gets lost, he also can't play long stints due to conditioning, he also has lapses in concentration. Its frustrating, he is so fun to watch or invisible or horrific.

Play last year he didn't just block a jump shot, he grabbed it... like a rebound, on the way up from 5-7 feet away. It was impressive.

If his mind was right he'd be dominant, I have no doubt. Basketball just doesn't seem that important to him. I wish it was, again, he is fun to watch and capable of alot of great things. He just can't seem to get out of his own way.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

... as well as another All-Star selection and second team All-Defense.

Look, we know Hibbert is a mixed bag of highs and lows, but some team is going to look at that resume and think, hey we can get this guy playing at a high level again. That team might even be the Pacers.

With McGee on the other hand, no one even knows whether he can ever play at a high level. Athletic potential only carries one so far, and after 6 seasons in the NBA (same as Hibbert!) I'd say not many people are still holding out hope on him.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

For all of Hibbert's issues, I'd say the deck is pretty stacked in Hibbert's favor now. The whole intrigue with McGee is whether he could develop enough game to make use of his athletic gifts... 2 years later, he's still the same old McGee that everyone loves (to make fun of).

As for the injury - he was extremely horrible before he got injured. No, I don't think we would have been better off with McGee. George Karl probably got the most out of him the previous year, and even then Karl knew to restrict him to small doses.

That's not accurate or fair. He only played 5 games and he was playing through injury the whole time. That's why he went and got another look at his leg and low and behold, he needed surgery.

I like Roy and when he's at his best and his mind is right, he's great on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, he has a long period every season where he struggles with his confidence and at other times he was a distraction because he wasn't happy with his role in the offense. To be honest, he's becoming a bit of a drama-queen. When he's disengaged and not playing with effort, he's useless to the team. Also his mobility issues on defense were repeatedly exposed this season and especially during the playoffs where he averaged less than 1 block per game against the Heat.

Roy's lack of athleticism, balance, and mobility is going to keep the Pacers from taking the next step. The next step is to implement a quicker paced offense. Roy doesn't fit into that style of play. That's what got be me thinking about Javale again. There's no telling how well he'll be able to come back from the injury but I think a quicker more agile center that just focuses on playing solid defense, rebounding, and finishing with force would be an upgrade and resolve a lot of the problems the Pacers had this season on both ends of the court.

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

but I think a quicker more agile center that just focuses on playing solid defense, rebounding, and finishing with force would be an upgrade and resolve a lot of the problems the Pacers had this season on both ends of the court.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

Also, I question anyone who thinks McGee is even worth looking. Do you actually watch the games? Or just stats?

If a guy turns the ball over or makes a bad decision on the court, does that make him stupid? If so, Roy fits the profile. I don't think either of them are stupid. Saying Javale is stupid is not a fact, it's just your opinion. A fact is that Javale turns the ball over less than Roy on average and he doesn't get his shot repeatedly blocked by guys like Kyle Korver.

Yes I watch him play and I watched every Pacers game this season except for 2 regular season games when I had to work. I've never seen him play as bad as Roy played during his 6 scoreless games during the playoffs this year. His second half of the regular season was terrible as well unless you think posting averages of 8.9 points on less than 40% shooting, 4.7 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks in 28 minutes per game is something less than terrible from your starting Center. Roy's stat just confirm how bad he played when watching the games.

This is now the 3rd season in-a-row where he's had a prolonged period of time he's struggled and he's regressed when he should be improving and starting to hit his prime.

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

If a guy turns the ball over or makes a bad decision on the court, does that make him stupid? If so, Roy fits the profile. I don't think either of them are stupid. Saying Javale is stupid is not a fact, it's just your opinion. A fact is that Javale turns the ball over less than Roy on average and he doesn't get his shot repeatedly blocked by guys like Kyle Korver.

Yes I watch him play and I watched every Pacers game this season except for 2 regular season games when I had to work. I've never seen him play as bad as Roy played during his 6 scoreless games during the playoffs this year. His second half of the regular season was terrible as well unless you think posting averages of 8.9 points on less than 40% shooting, 4.7 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks in 28 minutes per game is something less than terrible from your starting Center. Roy's stat just confirm how bad he played when watching the games.

This is now the 3rd season in-a-row where he's had a prolonged period of time he's struggled and he's regressed when he should be improving and starting to hit his prime.

And if you watched many of JaVale's games, liked you claimed, then you have seen some of the most idiotic basketball plays. You can argue with me if you like, but it won't change my mind about how I view him; considering I've seen him in game time and in highlights do some of the most extremely stupid stuff on the court. What Roy does is more lack of ability or effort. McGee is more lack of b-ball intelligence

Re: Who's worth more - Hibbert or JaVale McGee?

And if you watched many of JaVale's games, liked you claimed, then you have seen some of the most idiotic basketball plays. You can argue with me if you like, but it won't change my mind about how I view him; considering I've seen him in game time and in highlights do some of the most extremely stupid stuff on the court. What Roy does is more lack of ability or effort. McGee is more lack of b-ball intelligence

He still averages less turnovers than Hibbert even with his bonehead plays. That's the damn irony of this entire perspective. That's like calling me stupid at math, because I sometimes think 2+2=20; yet, I'm still outperforming the more "intelligent" student. That doesn't make logical sense. Plus, I think that McGee has the higher PER average.