(17-09-2013 09:59 AM)absols Wrote: ...
while excubitor, mean to force the perspective of relative physical things as being true, which is absurd
it is the will to kill the truth by replacing it with the most superificial appearance of objects realities

that is why surely, he said that by accident i could appear profound, again he is evil meaning to force the perspective of killing the depth by replacing it with the most superficial sight

Yep - that right there; Ex0cubical is seriously into the twisty-turny - he's so delusional he can't even think straight about himself, let alone anyone else.

No wonder he thinks he's holier than thou - he has no choice. And that's what it really comes down to, isn't it - the choice to remain delusional? To keep up the pretense of delusion and to drag others into the delusion to continue to prop it up - that just contributes to the continual build up of the greatest lie ever told... and retold... and retold....

(17-09-2013 10:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: When something god said "don't do or think" is done or thought about doing. Unless it is done or thought about by god, then it isn't a sin because "fuck you, that's why."

I'm paraphrasing

How does swearing help your argument. Why do atheists swear and theists generally do not swear.

(17-09-2013 10:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: As to the OP. You may be holier than someone who lacks any religious belief, but that is like saying that you also have more Touchdowns in baseball than someone who doesn't play your version of the game. And we don't play because your game is made-up and doesn't make sense.

Of course. That was my argument exactly. I explained in a logical and reasoned manner why I am holier than thou, because you do not value holiness and regard it as made up nonsense. Whereas I treasure holiness and make it the goal of my life.

Swearing is natural. They are just words.

Glad you like my response. We don't value holy, we use that term as it was intended. As an insult.

Child indoctrination...the answer to everything is to start the brainwashing young and keep at it till it takes.

Wanna see that at work?

Bless me Father for I have sinned (mind you I was 10 years old),
My last confession was one week ago (when the nuns drug us out of school and marched us to confession we thought up some sins to tell the priest)...thereby creating yet another sin.
****At this age no matter what we said we had to then say the Act of Contrition and some Hail Marys...(funny that it was always the same)

Oh my god I am heartily sorry for having offended thee and I confess to all my sins because of thy just punishment...but most of all because it offends thee, my lord...
Really...this is what you want to teach kids...that they are ruled by something that gets offended and punishes for lying about doing your homework.

I needed to go into a dark booth with a drunken priest and make up sins for him so I could say prayers to a vengeful god and plead for forgiveness.

That is emotional and mental abuse.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We are all born with no beliefs and then acquire them through the influences around us.

Atheism is non-belief so it is not acquired. It is the rejection of a belief.

Get that and you'll be on first base (KidC, are you proud of me for using an Murikanisationalism?) when it comes to understanding many atheists.

Not sure how you can argue that rejecting a belief is not acquiring a non-belief. I am pretty sure you are contradicting yourself. I do believe that atheism can be chosen personally and directly just like any other religion can be chosen personally and directly by the individual.
I also believe that atheism can be taught from the cradle by atheistic parents, just like Christian parents can teach their baby from the cradle. It is very hard for a child to reject and change from the indoctrination of their parents, which is why I believe my children will be Christians all their life. I worked very hard to indoctrinate them in the Christian religion from the time they were born.
Most apostates who depart from the faith have received very weak faith formation from their parents and so have been unable to resist the deceptions and lies that they encounter when they leave home and go to college.

By the way do you still think that absols post made sense?

Now you are saying "can be". I see this as a step in the right direction. Thank you.

Yes. It 'can be' be taught and I have spoken to many who have rejected it (atheism) for this reason i.e. as a reaction to being indoctrinated.

But that is just 'can be'.

Ok.

We are born without beliefs, on this we agree.
Therefore atheism (no belief) is the default.
Various influences provide the opportunity to believe and we can reject those beliefs or accept them.
Some atheists like KidC and many others here, for whatever reason, did not accept the evidence presented and remained atheist.
Most here (I think) took on the beliefs of their parents, teachers, peers etc. and then later, through again, many reasons (but mainly, greater exposure to knowledge) rejected those beliefs i.e. stopped believing.

For me it was amongst other things, exposure to Logic, Maths, David Attenborough, Douglas Adams and of course reading the bible and the Quran, going to church and to a church school.

I was lucky in that I was taught how to think not what to think.

For the record, and I'm not intending this to be a personal comment but I regard indoctrination (i.e. teaching what to think) as child abuse (I don't mean child rape that the Italian Church is famous for) in that it is an abuse of power.

(17-09-2013 10:32 AM)NoSkyDaddy Wrote: Hi excubitor,
There is a stark contrast between your self deprecating descriptions of yourself and the spirit of your comments.

(17-09-2013 08:04 AM)excubitor Wrote: It is in their heart of hearts, their deeper inmost thoughts that they shudder. However they delude themselves and bury these subconscious stirrings deep under layers of lies.

This type of claim, to know the minds and hearts of other people, is not only beyond human capabilities, but is arrogance of he highest order. Your comments blatantly reveal you as a presuppositionalist. You have accepted the Bible at face value without question as fact, and you bend the facts to fit your predetermined conclusion.
As atheists, our minds do not work that way. Rather than starting with a conclusion, we start with information. Then we evaluate whether it is true or not. Finally we use information that is demonstrably true to gain an understanding of reality. When biblical claims are evaluated as information, it fails to be compelling due to the lack of supporting evidence. We truly in our heart of hearts, disbelieve.

I concede that as my starting precept I believe by faith that God is real and true, that he came to earth as Jesus Christ born of a virgin. He died and was buried, was resurrected into new life and ascended to the Father. I believe in the holy catholic church and her teachings and the scriptures she delivered to us which teach that God made heaven and earth in six days and that there was a cataclysmic global flood. These presuppositions are a framework of belief borne of faith from the divine revelation of God around which all "evidences" established by the physical senses must be subject.
This is my boast and the great power that I have over you all, because you only trust what you can see, feel, touch, taste, smell, measure and study.

As a result of putting such high and unwarranted value on physical evidences you very quickly throw away divine revelation the minute you think that the physical evidence contradicts it. Unfortunately you have not factored in the power of deceit by Satan and liars who are able to manipulate your senses so that you make errors in judgement and are led astray.
There have been many such frauds in science which have resulted in people believing lies for decades until the peer review system kicks in.
Well i am not going to put my faith in sciences peer review system to uncover the lies. I am going to put my faith in the living God who created me and who gave me his church to guide, shelter and feed me.

I will make no apology and happily boast of my presuppositions that God is almighty, omnipotent and eternal, knowing all things from the beginning to the end, small and great.

For some(many), atheism is the rejection of a belief which has been acquired through surrounding influences. For others, atheism is just a label which fits, since no belief was ever fostered and most likely never acquired; it is simply original non-belief. Both of these definitions are sincere and may or may not carry a degree of militancy with which to defend respective views.

Very often, an individual who had to fight against their own acceptance of surrounding influences, may exhibit outward appearances of militancy. It's understandable. Those of us who never acquired belief initially wonder what the fuss must be about… until we learn about the exploitation of authoritative power which surrounds belief and the abuse dispensed by such authority. This is how and why militant atheism is brought to the forefront; it is unconscionable to stand idle with the knowledge that further abuse could be curtailed by raising awareness.

If theists are so troubled by the militancy of atheist... then one solution might be to stop indoctrinating children to believe.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein