Those would be civil actions - not criminal ones. Civil actions based upon someone exercising their right to free speech. I never said there weren't consequences. Yet free speech was nevertheless exercised.

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

Ahh, the Joos are at it again Seriously, Alex could be less predictable.

I like juice.

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Nothing should make a man happier than knowing his government couldn't care less about him.I'd rather lose defending the constitution than win at its expense.Hitlers are born and die every day without notice. Its the morons who put them in power that are dangerous.You don't escape guilt by declaring that you have no choice.Lese-majeste is my middle name

Those would be civil actions - not criminal ones. Civil actions based upon someone exercising their right to free speech. I never said there weren't consequences. Yet free speech was nevertheless exercised.

Guess what buddy.... 6 of 7 of my direct civil war ancestors did not own slaves, but fought with valor for their homeland.

So answer this. A foreign power invades your land. (Which the north did first in VA), threatening your economic well being, and way of life. You just lay down?

You have been seriously brainwashed by the PC history revisionist.

THe first invasion wasn't even a State that had seceded, nor was it allowed to. There was bloodshed during that invasion, bridges were destroyed, rail lines disrupted to slow its progress, and the first dead of the war, shot by Northern Militias all happened in Maryland.

The opening verses of the State song, written by an expatriate in Louisiana:

The despot's heel is on thy shore, Maryland!His torch is at thy temple door, Maryland!Avenge the patriotic gore That flecked the streets of Baltimore,And be the battle queen of yore, Maryland! My Maryland!

Maryland voted for Breckinridge in 1860, but a vote on secession was not allowed until the Legislature had been replaced during the war. Maryland remained an occupied State for the duration and beyond.

There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

It's the ESTABLISHING document by which the governing document derives its existence.

Without the Establishing document - there is no governing document that would have been created for the sole purpose of limiting governance to very specific and menial things necessary for a civil society to exist with its liberty intact.

Our rights, nor the existence of liberty comes from any document from men. It is established along with fundamental rights that a people possess to abolish the forms to which they are grown accustomed which evinces the design to render them under absolute despotism. A reality we now live in that we lie to ourselves about because mankind are more disposed to suffer evil while evils are sufferable than right themselves.

So all kinds of excuses are made to justify existing under despotism, because such evil is sufferable, and any thoughts or efforts to abolish it are rendered distasteful by those unwilling to risk the thought of liberty.

There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Guess what buddy.... 6 of 7 of my direct civil war ancestors did not own slaves, but fought with valor for their homeland.

So answer this. A foreign power invades your land. (Which the north did first in VA), threatening your economic well being, and way of life. You just lay down?

You have been seriously brainwashed by the PC history revisionist.

America is a foreign power in its own land?

Who's brainwashed again?

I pointed out the obvious, that one can argue hypothetical points of law until the cows come home. But at the end of the day, history shows what really happened. 1,264,000 Americans died and there is no Confederacy.

For America will fight a major war to stop any rebellious state from trying to secede.

I pointed out the obvious, that one can argue hypothetical points of law until the cows come home. But at the end of the day, history shows what really happened. 1,264,000 Americans died and there is no Confederacy.

For America will fight a major war to stop any rebellious state from trying to secede.

IIRC, the matter at issue was exactly whether the States in Secession were Federal Land. (I thought that was limited to the federal District and some military outposts). Trial by combat often does not produce justice. As for secession, we'll see, won't we? California may be the next test case.

There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

But at the end of the day, history shows what really happened. 1,264,000 Americans died and there is no Confederacy.

For America will fight a major war to stop any rebellious state from trying to secede.

Had the Colonies lost to the Crown, King George III would be singing the same exact tune.

However, none of that diminishes the truth of what was outlined in the Declaration. Tyranny is imposed by force.

Which is exactly all your line of reasoning is.

Just another variation of 'Bake the cake!" No, you may NOT refuse to do as we say!

All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

It's the ESTABLISHING document by which the governing document derives its existence.

Without the Establishing document - there is no governing document that would have been created for the sole purpose of limiting governance to very specific and menial things necessary for a civil society to exist with its liberty intact.

Our rights, nor the existence of liberty comes from any document from men. It is established along with fundamental rights that a people possess to abolish the forms to which they are grown accustomed which evinces the design to render them under absolute despotism. A reality we now live in that we lie to ourselves about because mankind are more disposed to suffer evil while evils are sufferable than right themselves.

So all kinds of excuses are made to justify existing under despotism, because such evil is sufferable, and any thoughts or efforts to abolish it are rendered distasteful by those unwilling to risk the thought of liberty.

I pointed out the obvious, that one can argue hypothetical points of law until the cows come home. But at the end of the day, history shows what really happened. 1,264,000 Americans died and there is no Confederacy.

For America will fight a major war to stop any rebellious state from trying to secede.

A foreign force tearing through a seceded land is not an invasion? Do you understand what that sounds like? I bet you were cheerleading as Sherman was raping and pillaging through Georgia and SC in that non-invasion.

Yeah, you never answered my question about whether my ancestors were treasonous for defending themselves. Yep, you are past brainwashed. You have terminally succumbed to the PC historical revisonist propaganda. A full tilt dumbing down.

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I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh. 5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

The Federalist papers were used as a guide. But it is ultimately the Constitution upon which those decisions were based.

Many things have been cited as dicta in court decisions but very few of those decisions were rendered on the basis of those things. I think @IsailedawayfromFR is right about @goodwithagun not being up to speed on this subject.

It's the ESTABLISHING document by which the governing document derives its existence.

Without the Establishing document - there is no governing document that would have been created for the sole purpose of limiting governance to very specific and menial things necessary for a civil society to exist with its liberty intact.

Our rights, nor the existence of liberty comes from any document from men. It is established along with fundamental rights that a people possess to abolish the forms to which they are grown accustomed which evinces the design to render them under absolute despotism. A reality we now live in that we lie to ourselves about because mankind are more disposed to suffer evil while evils are sufferable than right themselves.

So all kinds of excuses are made to justify existing under despotism, because such evil is sufferable, and any thoughts or efforts to abolish it are rendered distasteful by those unwilling to risk the thought of liberty.

The Declaration of Independence is EXACTLY what it says it is! It is a DECLARATION proclaiming the many reasons why the Original 13 colonies were taking the action they chose to take against the King and his government. Pretty much the same thing the 11 states who sought to leave the Union were doing! But, as a legal matter, it is just a statement and nothing more.

No, it doesn't work that way. You don't get to be the arbiter of that right. Either they have that right or they do not.

btw, slavery remained legal in Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, and Missouri after those other eleven states left the Union. So those eleven states did not secede so that they could legalize slavery. It was already legal.

Freedom works that way. One is nothing but a slave if one is chained down and forced to be subjugated against one's will. The Declaration of Independence spells it out pretty succinctly. It was not about the issue of slavery as that was preserved, it was about the issue of freedom.

That is what @goodwithagun failed to grasp when he began talking about 'enslavement'.

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Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Grant's wife had owned a few slaves which Grant obtained one through no effort of his own. He wrote a letter of manumission in 1859 freeing the man named Jones (look it up...it's on the internet) and certainly owned no slaves during the war.Grant also made mention during the war of "knocking out slavery."Certainly, a number of Northerners, like Sherman, had no problem with slavery.But the fact of the matter the institution was destroyed by the war never to recover.

One of those clashes where you hope both sides lose. What is concerning though is our history is systematically being erased from the south to placate BLM. Unfortunately when the KKK and white nationalists are the ones standing up for these monuments, its hard for anyone else to see the cause as very sympathetic.

I'm afraid our attempt to educate our children with the true history of our country, both good and bad, is becoming much harder with the sanitization by some of the snowflakes and vilification by the others of prominent events and figures in our history.

Spot on.

I'd like to see a "plague on both there houses" movement by people who actually want to preserve Southern heritage that would take the position that monuments to Confederate figures who were irredentist after the Civil War be pulled down, while those who were models of reconciliation, at least late in life, be preserved with new plaques commemorating both their martial hardihood and their work of reconciliation. That would leave Robert E. Lee's statues up, with plaques commemorating his kneeling beside a freed slave at the communion rail; Nathan Bedford Forrest would be commemorated for repenting of founding the original KKK and ordering its disbanding and becoming a noted benefactor of the black community later in life; and P.G.T Beauregard commemorated for his work in the Reform Party in Louisiana, advocating for civil rights and voting rights for freed slaves.

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And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

The Declaration of Independence is EXACTLY what it says it is! It is a DECLARATION proclaiming the many reasons why the Original 13 colonies were taking the action they chose to take against the King and his government. Pretty much the same thing the 11 states who sought to leave the Union were doing! But, as a legal matter, it is just a statement and nothing more.

This is exactly right. The DOI is a pep talk, a rallying cry, a great document but I guess, it's not exactly binding. I've heard that discussed before.

Grant also made mention during the war of "knocking out slavery."Certainly, a number of Northerners, like Sherman, had no problem with slavery.But the fact of the matter the institution was destroyed by the war never to recover.

During the War, Grant also was known to say, "Pass me another bottle of bourbon, Lieutenant!"

Certainly, a number of Northerners, like Sherman, had no problem with slavery.But the fact of the matter the institution was destroyed by the war never to recover.

The institution of slavery was destroyed by abolitionists like John Fremont who threatened to leave the GOP if they didn't make it part of their 1864 platform. Not wanting to lose Fremont's support, Lincoln reluctantly agreed.

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.