“Success is not down to me to judge. Our job is to do as well as we can until the end of the season.

“We want to play in the Champions League next season but we have a tough job because we have six or seven teams fighting for places, and how well we do until the end of the season will depend on that.

Might as well start on that. I mean, success is down to Wenger to judge. He knows the decision to stay on sits with him and him alone. Sad times, what a shambles the board are if that’s allowed to happen. A rich old man’s play thing. What an embarrassing way to run a club.

Amazing that he is complaining that nothing is good enough, I don’t want to go too far into it, but missing the quarter-finals 7 seasons in a row is an appalling record considering the budget he’s overseeing. Not winning the league in 13 years is nearly the longest spell any manager in modern Arsenal history has gone without winning it. However you cut it, Wenger hasn’t been good enough.

Pep Guardiola thinks the leadership arc of a manager is 3 years, which is short. But not far off. Carlo Ancellotti’s longest was 8 years at Milan where he totally dominated. Even Jose Mourinho, Chelsea’s greatest ever manager, has been sacked twice and it’s been justified.

I’ve finished my Carlo book. It was pretty interesting, but he’s such a gent, he doesn’t really get into the gory details of football management. It’s high-level stuff, but he’s certainly still a student of the game, admitting that football and analytics is still has a massive disconnect. Anyway, one of his points that he really drills into is the idea of the manager being the highest paid person at the club. Loosely:

‘I can’t understand why anyone would insist on this. The players are the most important people at the club. Who would disagree with that? The manager is only important when the players aren’t winning anymore and that’s the right way’

Sharp contrast to Arsenal, who are run by a man who people think is this altruistic hero of a person who doesn’t care about money, yet insists he’s the highest paid, at the expense of us losing players.

Interesting reading the glee people are taking in Guardiola missing out on the last 16. People calling him a fraud? Seems to be the way you gain attention these days, calling someone a fraud really aggressively. Like someone who has been in the semi-finals 7 times in a row can be deemed a fraud.

He’s one of the best in the business, I’m sure once he bangs that team into shape, they’ll be a contender. People need to remember that our squad was more expensive to assemble than Bayern’s, it’s also more expensive to service. They spent net £44m (AFC £87m) last summer. Net £28m (AFC £22m)the summer before. Net £44m (AFC net £77m) the summer before.

I’m really not sure how anyone can excuse our poor performance in the CL, or knock Pep in his first season at City.

ANYWAY.

West Brom tomorrow, a chance to pull our Top 4 Title game back on track. I think the atmosphere is likely to be muted. Hoping Tony P gets a spanking and that’ll raise spirits. We need a bit of joy in our lives, and I’ll take it anywhere it comes.

Finally, Jeremy Corbyn is Wenger in. What a surprise. He must see a lot of himself in the Arsenal manager.

Hoping for a WBA victory tomorrow. First time I’ve really wanted us beaten since I fell in love with AFC. The club I love(d) is dead, maybe never to return. The only way Le Fraud will leave is constant defeats until the season ends, and even then, who would put one single penny on him being sacked?

so Mr. Wenger this is the year you finished outside the top 4, your record has come to an end. how do you feel ??

Wenger : listen, even if i had gotten top 4, the fans were not happy with that. nothing is good enough anymore. I built this club. Chelsea will struggle this year cause they have CL football again. y u look at me ???

Nonsense. You seem to misunderstand the point here, even after Cesc’s excellent post.

One, no one here claims that Kroenke is a great or ambitious owner or that he is not part of the problem at the moment. No one.

The question is what is he to blame for, versus what is Wenger to blame for.

AlexanderHenry claims that Wenger always spends what he is given and that when he spent only 10m two summer back — or when he signed only Kallstrom in that January window — he did so because Kroenke didn’t give him enough money to do anything else.

This is complete and utter bollocks.

Wenger has had ample money to spend for years now, and the reason he only spent 10m two summers ago or only signed Kallstrom in that window is because Wenger himself decided that was all he needed. He could’ve spent 90m two summers ago and no one above him would’ve even batted an eye. He could’ve spent 50m in that January window and no one would’ve batted an eye.

So no, Alexanderhenry is not right.

Further, the notion that transfer spending or the owner’s lack of ambition is the principle problem ignores the other important problems that we have been highlighting on this blog for years now, all of which are on Wenger, including:
– woeful tactics
– woeful discipline & organization
– woeful scouting
– woeful player development (see Walcott, Ox, Ramsey, Wilshere)
– woeful buying & selling (Gervinho!)
– the “socialist” wage structure
– woeful ambition, i.e., Wenger himself has made it crystal clear that he thinks the fans should be happy with his work over the past ten years, that 4th is a trophy

Finally, the argument that the owner — and not Wenger — is the principle problem ignores a very basic point: if we replaced Kroenke tomorrow with a smarter, more ambitious owner but did not replace Wenger, we would be no better next season than we have been for the past ten. Replacing the owner without replacing Wenger would do absolutely nothing. To progress, that owner would need to replace Wenger.

On the other hand, if we replaced Wenger tomorrow with a smart and ambitious manager but did not replace Kroenke, we would in no way shape or form be held back by the fact that Kroenke was/is the owner. Kroenke would allow that manager the ample resources the club possesses, and Kroenke would allow that manager to run the show football-wise. Unless you think we need a billionaire owner to come in and spend tens of millions of his own money — we don’t need this — then we don’t need Kroenke to do anything other than what he does, i.e., give the manager access to the club’s resources, allow the football men to make the football decisions.

All we need Kroenke to do is replace Wenger, something of course, that he is not going to do. Sadly, he believes in Wenger and respects Wenger in the exact same manner that the AKB does.

Which is why the only way forward is to make it impossible for Wenger to decide to stay. He must be driven out — one, by getting into his head, and two, by making it bad for PR/the brand to allow him to stay on.

‘Finally, the argument that the owner — and not Wenger — is the principle problem ignores a very basic point: if we replaced Kroenke tomorrow with a smarter, more ambitious owner but did not replace Wenger, we would be no better next season than we have been for the past ten.’———————————————————

Looking at half of the picture, are we Bamford?

If we replaced Kroenke with a more ambitious owner, he would then replace Wenger. And get this point: He wouldn’t be replacing Wenger for the sake of it, he’d bring in an upgrade.

On the off-chance his appointment fails, our ambitious owner would not need fans to wake him up to that fact, he would take the initiative, fire the manager and try again…relentless until we get success. The way most top football clubs are run.

On the other hand, if Kroenke continues to be the chief, first of all there is no guarantee he’d make a good appointment. A man who continues to have faith in a loser simply cannot be trusted to hire a winner. And if his appointment flops, are you prepared to go through this routine again, Bamford?

Protests, marches etc all the while Kroenke sits idly and does nothing, again.

‘This is another empty argument. By “Wenger clone,” do you mean someone who costs 8m a year, spends a boatload of money (albeit erratically and ineffectively), challenges for nothing and makes Arsenal the laughing stock of the football world? Why the fuck would he do that? How does that increase the value of his investment?’
———————————————

Why the fuck would he do that? Really, Bamford? Are you naive or just plain dumb?

He is already doing that!

How many years has he had the controlling stakes at the club? How come we’ve not seen any efforts from Kroenke to ‘elevate Arsenal’ thus far?

He had a chance three years ago, what does he do? Offer a big fat contract to Wenger.

He has a chance now, what is he doing? Offering another contract to Wenger.

But yeah sure, once Wenger is out, Kroenke will suddenly turn a new leaf and start thinking in a whole different way. His other sport franchises illustrate this possibility really well.

So tomorrow for Arsene the season begins. 50 points and 12 games to go, I reckon we’ll need 80 points to get top 4 so need to win 10, of course maybe less if Man C, Man U, Liverpool and the Scum drop points.
10 wins out of 12, Wenger is the expert in doing this, he doesn’t every season. I read that the players get a big bonus if they we make top 4 so they’re families, agents etc will expect nothing less.
For us of course it’s all bollocks but we’re used to it. Get top 4 and he signs a new contract, so probably best that we don’t but I can’t ever want us to lose etc

I think some are underestimating Wenger’s hold on the club. I believe Wenger helped facilitate Stan take over of the club. It wouldn’t had happened if Wenger was not for it. If you think Stan would/could fire someone who helped him take over the club, good luck.

From everything I’ve read about Silent Stan, I don’t believe he or anyone in his hierarchy has ever issued some kind of a “don’t spend, only make profits” command.

I think he bought up, knowing full well that this is Wenger’s ship and he has free reign to run it however he wants. Profits are nice, it adds value to Stan’s investment, but he could care less one way or the other about it.

I think we can read more than enough into Wenger’s statements over the years about “inflated market” and “proper value” to understand that the lack of spending wasn’t about a club based directive, but about Wenger’s personal disdain for modern footballing economics and a bunch of this is just his ego and desire not to “be one of them (the spenders)”.

A man who respects himself and has other alternatives, would not cling to a job when he has nothing left to offer. AFC supporters have become the laughing stock of supporters of the other top EPL clubs. The man obviously intends to stay in his job. The owners are not interested in winning titles. Why should I continue to support such a club? Let’s make the stadium empty every week till the dinosaur is FORCED to leave.

Says the guy who has staff briefing reporters that gooners have never had it so good while trotting out stats about how many matches Arsenal have played in Champ League or finished top four since Wenger became manager.

Our nearest competitors, Chavs, Manure and ManCity have all achieved success in past decade and Arsenal lost league to leicester when our rivals all unexpectedly had dire seasons last year.

Success for top club like Arsenal is winning league and winning champs league, that’s it. Wenger has failed for a decade if we judge him by normal sports standards.

Feels like Wenger gaslighting fans when he say ‘nothing is good enough any more’ while Giroud has just been given a contract extension and the club has over two hundred million quid in bank.

Wishing for no top four will not get rid of Wenger.all it will do is give an excuse for the parasitic SCUM who run our club not to spend on top players (not that we do anough anyway ) and cut the wage bill.
Imo no top 4 would be the end of any future top mangers wanting to join.

Rambo,
I’m not sure you get what Bamford is saying.
I believe his point is that 8 million salary, 220 million wage bill and 90 million yearly transfer budget should get you a lot more that Wenger is producing currently.
Give a top manager like Allegri the same for two consecutive seasons and the outcome will be different.
The buck stops at Kroenke because he’s set the bar too low and won’t sack Wenger.
That’s my interpretation anyway.

Worth pointing out you can’t necessarily judge Kroenke on his other sports franchises cause American sports have different sets of rules that make it quite hard to be successful. Salary caps and drafts and all that. I mean in all honesty in the NFL if your lucky enough to have a top level QB that’s half the job right there. And The Rams haven’t had one since Kurt Warner. Whereas with Arsenal there’s no cap no line that can’t be crossed only the one Wenger sets himself

Tyagn
I can’t wait for wenger to go. But your comment about kroenke picking the team isn’t that far off.if you think about it he is the boss and is the one who keep wenger in a job and let’s this farse carry on.
And he has offered him a new sweeter deal to stay. Remember the buck stops at the top.

Dissenter, I’ve been waiting years and years to see a top manger be in charge of Arsenal’s resources. But Kroenke and co keep disappointing me. Anyone who lays blame at his feet is completely justified imo.

While fans of most other clubs complain about their boards harsh treatment of managers who fail to deliver immediately, us Arsenal fans are desperately waiting for our board to take action against a manager who has been underperforming for over a decade.

1886 Blog tweeted out a letter to a newspaper in which the writer calls protesters who would fly a banner over the stadium “classless, nouveau riches” types.

Would someone like to explain why such a person would be bringing up money and social class here? This is strange to me. Who is the speaker speaking for? Middle class types? Working class? Old money? Please explain.

“I’m just amazed that even after all these years of listening to Wenger, and the depths to which he plummets to absolve himself of blame, that people actually thought that this season or a few results was going to be some sort of tipping point.”

Agree that you were right that the old bugger is/was going to hold on for dear life — and may continue on even if he finishes 16th! — but there are a number of new factors this time around, including:
– the protest movement
– Wenger openly discussing the possibility of managing “somewhere else’
– the genuine possibility of our finishing outside of the top four
– the near universal pundit/media consensus against him
– a John Cross saying his position was/is “untenable”

Like a lot of your posts on here and generally agree but playing devil’s advocate to your arguments:

1: The protest movement, while admirable only amounts to a tiny minority, there were also protests a couple of seasons back that ultimately had little effect.
2: Calling total BS on Wenger wanting to manage somewhere else. He wouldn’t last a season at any of the top tier clubs such as Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, etc where mediocrity simply isn’t tolerated or accepted. Nowhere else will he get to earn over eight million pounds a year with complete creative control over a club. He’s also been here over 20 years, don’t see why he’d end his career somewhere else.
3: We say this EVERY season, and EVERY season we somehow manage to secure a top 4 spot. With the pressure off as we won’t compete for the league, I expect us to put a run together and once again finish top 4 along with Chelsea, City and Spurs.
4: You’re way off re the media, the VAST majority IMO are still Wenger apologists and even those that agree it’s time for a change seem to have deep respect for what he’s done here. Very few are actively calling for his head or really applying the pressure.
5: John Cross doesn’t even register in terms of important figures re the club’s future.

Yeah never doubt Wenger’s ability to do enough to save his own skin and snatch a ‘meh’ situation from the jaws of total disaster.

He cannot ever find a victory when the club and fans need it, or want it, in big matches in the EPL or UCL, but when he needs it he can find it.

Would not shock me to see tomorrow start off a chain of results that saw us crawl into 4th by the end of the season.

It is almost as if he willingly cultivates this atmosphere of despair and a total annihilation of his ability so that when he achieves a result that would have been greeted with shrugs at the beginning of the season is by the end actually seen as decent and a vindication of Wenger.

This is another empty argument. By “Wenger clone,” do you mean someone who costs 8m a year, spends a boatload of money (albeit erratically and ineffectively), challenges for nothing and makes Arsenal the laughing stock of the football world?

Why the fuck would he do that?

How does that increase the value of his investment?

It doesn’t. Unless he is irrational — and I don’t think he is — he and the board will select a manager who they believe can elevate Arsenal in footballing terms without needing 200m a year in transfer spending to do so. Given this new manager would have some 50-100m to spend every summer — a reasonable sum — this actually shouldn’t be that difficult to do.

So again, the argument that he might hire “a Wenger clone” is empty of substance.

As for your reply to this above, i.e., that Kroenke is already doing this in sticking with Wenger, this is a silly point: he is sticking with Wenger precisely because Wenger is Wenger, manager of the famed Invincibles, the manager “who built Arsenal,” the professor, the boss, etc. etc. The reason Wenger still has his job is because he is Arsene Wenger.

Will the next manager be a club legend of 20-some years, a man who “revolutionized” Arsenal Football Club, a man associated with Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, etc.?

No. He won’t. So it will be a very different situation. Unlike the current situation, Kroenke will have no reason to choose a manager who makes us mediocre when he could have a manager who makes us great.

I think you’ve misunderstood my point, and I think I also just disagree with you on certain things. But first, I am not saying I think he will go; I’m just saying that there are good reasons to think this season is qualitatively different from previous seasons.

1. The protest movement may be relatively small but it is much larger than anything that has been seen at Arsenal in Wenger’s time. It’s unprecedented.

2. I don’t think Wenger wants to manage elsewhere either. That wasn’t my point. My point is that he explicitly said in a press conference that he would be managing next year regardless, whether at Arsenal “or somewhere else”. Those were his words, not mine. Those words mean something, and they are words he has never previously spoken.

3. Yes, he usually finds a way to finish fourth, but the league is more competitive this season, we’re in fifth place and we’re not playing well. He has a genuine problem on his hands.

4. Disagree on the media. Yes, there are voices still defending him, but he is also being openly mocked, including by people like Gab Marcotti. Marcotti doesn’t think Wenger is going to leave, but it’s also clear he thinks Wenger is totally clueless.

5. I didn’t cite John Cross because I think anyone gives a fuck what he has to say. I cited him because he is a weather-vane of sorts. When John Cross says Wenger’s position is “untenable,” we are in a different situation than we have been previously, because he never would’ve said any such thing in a previous year.

So again, my point is not that he’s leaving but that there are good reasons to think that this season is a bit different from some of the previous ones.

Golovkin is a machine, not the greatest technique, got caught a lot by Brook but just walked through it and hit him so hard he shattered his eye socket.

Was a bog fan of Canelo when he went up against Mayweather, looked a real prospect, got schooled by Mayweather but no shame in that, but gone down in my opinion running from Golovkin whilst also trying to act tough about it.

Don’t disagree with you re finishing 4th potentially being a problem, Liverpool and United both have more momentum behind them than we do but I’d question Liverpool’s bottle big time considering how up and down a side they are. Edged Burnley at the weekend at Anfield but they are susceptible to dropping points against shit teams and they’re poor at the back.

United have the opposite problem, outside of Zlatan they lack a goalscorer and they don’t win enough matches despite being resolute at the back.

Don’t know if I’d go as far to call the movement unprecedented, wasn’t there also a march in 2014? And what was the season where we had masses of empty seats? It’s gathering steam but results like the 5-0 at home to Lincoln are its kryptonite. The majority of ‘fans’ are incredibly fickle and will be singing Wenger in and Giroud/Ozil chants again as soon as we put a winning streak together.

He was actually pretty sloppy against Brook, didn’t look himself at all and still battered through him as you say. His destruction of Lemeiux looks all the more impressive now after watching Lemieux stop Stevens in such brutal fashion. He ate any of Lemiux’s bombs that connected like a Twix and for the rest of the bout proceeded to inflict a very one-sided hellacious beat down on him and Lemeiux is no mug.

His technique isn’t the cleanest but he has a granite chin, outstanding defense and seriously heavy hands, the power he generates from his jab is outrageous. He’s also faster than given credit for.

I think it was Murray who said getting hit with his jab is like being hit with a jackhammer, like most fighters strong arm straights basically.

You would essentially need to be Mayweather to beat Golovkin, you are not going to knock him out so just keep making contact and then moving, avoiding his punches and don’t let his feet get planted whilst jabbing away and taking rounds.

Like you say, I cannot see anyone currently who can do that, if you trade you will get beaten, if you are sloppy for twenty seconds you are in trouble, that is why I always feel Mayweather does not get the credit he deserves, people say his fights were boring, but whether it was Hatton, Maidana, Cotto, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mosley, Ortiz, Guerrero etc they all end up looking the exact same way, too slow, cannot catch him, hardly make contact, I still say that he could have finished Mosley as well but out of respect carried him to the finish with his son in the front row.

@adam a c, oh you are still supporting Arsene FC. Most of us here had stopped after 8 – 2. Till 10 – 2 (15 – 3) we were still neutral, now everyfuckingone wants Arsene FC to lose and lose and lose till the sticky leach is sacked

@adam a c, oh you are still supporting Arsene FC?????!
Most of us here had stopped after 8 – 2. Till 10 – 2 (15 – 3) we were still neutral, now everyfuckingone wants Arsene FC to lose and lose and lose till the sticky leach is sacked after rubbing salt onto it liberally.

Just watching football gold City v Arsenal 2009 when we lost 4-2. How many humiliations has Wenger over seen and yet still the twats want him to remain and try to blame kroenke for our onfield problems. It’s obvious watching a game from 8 years ago that nothing has been learnt. Our midfield trotting back while city attack and score, no effort made to get back and he’ll out. There can be no way Wenger coaches how to defend, none at all

Wenger talking nonsense about Xhaka. Says he’s a victim of his reputation and picking up soft yellow cards. None of his yellows have been unjustified. He tackles dangerously. He’s a dreadful player who wouldn’t eve.n get in West Brom’s side. Hilarious how hipsters are referring to him as a regista. People so desperate to justify the value of limited players by limiting their role. No, he’s just a Tom Huddlestone but worse because he cost a lot more and doesn’t grasp he can’t tackle so gets sent off and causes more issues than he’s worth.

Talking about Xhaka look at his signing. Another example of a player brought but not really aware how he’ll fit into the team. First he claims he’s a box to box player, yeah if the game lasts 180 minutes he might make it from one box to another, not saying he’s slow but I’ve seen cripples post quicker 100m times. Then he claims he’s a CDM. The man truly is clueless and proves that his initial successes were down to the players.