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Posted on Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 7:21 p.m.

Michigan football team adds quarterback, offensive lineman to 2011 class

By Jeff Arnold

A day after the Michigan football team learned two members of its 2010 recruiting class likely wouldn't qualify to enroll this summer, the Wolverines got a pair of verbal commitments to their class for next year.

Quarterback Kevin Sousa, a 6-foot-2, 213-pound recruit out of Lake Nona, Fla., verbally committed to Rich Rodriguez as did 6-4, 268-pound lineman Jack Miller, according to the TheWolverine.com.

According to the Wolverine.com, Michigan offered Sousa last week before the speedy quarterback announced his decision following a campus visit Tuesday. The Rivals.com 3-star recruit also had offers from Colorado State, Duke, Illinois, Texas Tech, Louisville and West Virginia among others.

As a junior, Sousa completed 90-of-102 passes for 1,502 yards and eight touchdowns while also rushing for 989 yards and six touchdowns on 112 carries. Sousa registered a time of 4.5 seconds in the 40-yard dash and has been picking up more attention following solid showings at the Nike camps and the U.S. Army Junior Combine in January.

Lemming saw Sousa earlier this year and projected him to be one of the top quarterbacks in Florida. Lemming was impressed with his running ability considering Sousa's size, giving Michigan a solid dual-threat option once Sousa arrives next year.

Miller, meanwhile, chose the Wolverines after dwindling his college choices down to Michigan and Boston College, according to TheWolverine.com. While Rivals.com listed Miller as a defensive end, Michigan projected him more as an offensive lineman, helping fill a need up front.

Lemming interviewed Miller earlier this year in Toledo and was impressed with him on both sides of the ball. He becomes the first offensive lineman to commit to Michigan's 2011 class.

By Lemming's assessment, Michigan's recruiting class for 2011 is shaping up nicely, continuing a trend of improved recruiting that Lemming has seen develop under third-year coach Rich Rodriguez.

"They're in on more top guys than ever before under Rodriguez," Lemming said Tuesday night. "They're offering them and staying on top of them and I think the kids are waiting to see how the season shapes up.

"I think if they get off to a good start this year, you're going to see kids jumping on board real quick because Michigan has much tradition and facilities as anyone in the country. So it's just people waiting to see exciting football and I think that could happen this year."

Lemming said while many recruits remain in wait-and-see mode, Rodriguez can still offer up a plan for rebuilding as he enters his third year. In time, the Wolverines will have to produce, but because of what Michigan can offer academically and outside of football, Lemming feels Rodriguez and his staff still have a shot at top recruits even with disappointing seasons the past two years.

Most recruits realize Michigan is still trying to hone the spread offense Rodriguez introduced when he arrived. But after Rodriguez's first two seasons produced only eight wins and no bowl appearances, attracting recruits becomes tougher - even with the school's rich football tradition.

"It really comes down to the ability of the assistant coaches to sell the program to the kid," Lemming said. "If the coaches know about the tradition and everything like that and they're able to sell the academics, the facilities and also the future, then they're going to be successful.

"Michigan is still one of the elite teams nationally and so it's going to be a lot easier to sell that than (other places.)."

Jeff Arnold covers sports for AnnArbor.com and can be reached at (734) 623-2554 or by email at jeffarnold@annarbor.com. Follow him on Twitter @jeffreyparnold.

Comments

aarox

Sat, Jul 17, 2010 : 11:06 p.m.

That's pretty harsh Jaxon. Or maybe its just putting things in perspective. We will turn this around. The question is When and whether This Regime can do it. We've seen what they can do with Carr's kids. All Top Ten recruiting classes. They get to try again with their own recruits. This needs to work - as in 10 and 2 - or else we have 3 more years of recruiting and rebuilding. Worse than your scenario is that we go somewhere around 7-5 plus or minus one game. We are slightly above average, we win a few games here and there, every Saturday is a nail-biter, and its obvious to everyone that we are not one of the big boys anymore. We get a small bowl game and win it with an opponents' missed last second field goal. Its enough for the body politic to keep the current regime in place. Let's go 10 and 2, or 2 and 10. Either one works for us in the long run.

Mike

Wed, Jul 14, 2010 : 3:57 a.m.

I thought I would throw my 2 cents in this story. Salem University 2 - 8 as Head Coach He only had 1 year so we will give him some lead way. 2)Glenville State College as Head Coach 43 28 2 He won the WVIAC Championship solo once and 3 times was the Co Champion. This is a less than BCS type atmosphere. He did turn the school around and make them champs. I wont take that away from him. Though he had his shinning season of 10 - 3 each year that followed the wins became less and less until his last year was 6 - 4 overall I do give him respect for turning a losing school around, but in the end he was also not preforming as well as he once was. Though he was winning the conference games he was losing non conference games. Which is of much concern when looking at if you cant beat the teams you don't face often. Can he prepare for the big games without super stars? Jumping to West Virgina 15 - 16 Record against top 25 Teams 2 - 3 in Bowl Games 60 26 is an impressive win loss ratio, but looking at talent it leaves questions about can he win the big games. **Keys to winning he did turn them around but with Pat White and Steve Slanton as freshman's suiting up on the field. That makes almost any coach in the world look like super star. I wont take anything away from what he did. He did have an impressive career at WV. I am just looking at what he failed to do with superstars and an upper class starting line up. He didn't bring home the crystal. He didn't preform well against top 25 teams. He did leave his team hanging after he had just gotten a contract extention. So heres the way I see as my point of view. He can recruit. When you have star athletes. It makes anyones job a lot easier. The question is can he coach. Well he hasn't been in the BCS games long enough to tell. The mark of a great coach is not being able to win with star players but good players. That is only my opinion as when a coach can get super star plays out of just good players. That speaks volumes about his overall potential. Michigan With that said its time to look at what he has done. 3 wins in the Big Ten in 2 years. (* The questionable call against Indiana late in a game where the Indiana and the Michigan player came down with it at the same time and it went to the defender. *) That changed the momentum of the game and possible gave Michigan another win in the Big Ten. When Indiana was driving and Michigan couldn't stop them from scoring, but for the books it was a win so I will leave it at that. Given full control NCAA violations: (*People can make all the excuses in the world for him, but when you ask for full control comes total responsibility and him having his lawyer pawn it off on someone else was a feeble attempt at him not taking the responsibility he had asked for in the first place. *) 2008 2 Big Ten Wins 2009 1 Big Ten Win Many people managed to talk about he was coaching freshman and had people hurt. Yet those same people praise him when he has Pat and Steve as true freshmen and he was winning, but when he is at Michigan since he is playing with freshman and hurt players its different? I don't understand this. It just cant be both ways. So really with all that being said I think we will see alot about how he can coach this year. I am a blue fan. I support the team. I do not have to support the Coach. I wish that we would stomp everyone this year go undefeated and make a statement. We all really have to realize that RR isn't going anywhere this year whether he wins 2 games or 10. It is just that simple. I disliked RR from the start, but the realistic side of this is he will be back for at least 2 more full coaching years. You ask why? It is really easy. If they only give a coach 3 years to preform. No one is going to want to come into Michigan to coach. No player is going to want to play for Michigan. We have to show stability even if the team spirals to another 1 Big Ten season for 2 more years. Then you have the fact that the AD is backing him. You cant really show support then pull the plug on someone. That leaves you as a first year AD that has to fire a multi-million dollar coach. Then have to worry about losing recruits, finding a new replacement coach, you have to worry about getting a staff that can get in new recruits, you wasted all of 2011 recruits, and being worried about other staffers quitting with all the drama. I really hope RR can prove me wrong. He was brought here to win the Crystal. We know he can recruit people to play in his system, but is it enough to be 11 - 1 or 10 - 2. Whether we like him or not at this point means nothing. We can still support the team players and still be true fans or at least thats how I see it. This is kind of like Missouri to me. You better show me. Numbers are pretty, but in adversity will he show or fold? We will all find out soon enough. My predictions for the year basically go with the first 2 game of the season. If we win those I predict 8 - 4 if we lose the first 2 games we could be in for a long year and could have a 4 - 8 season. We wont beat OSU and as far as MSU well that is a toss up game. Go Blue

Robbie Webb

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 2:09 p.m.

Jaxon, I agree that Michigan certainly does not have any bragging rights at this point, but that doesn't mean we don't have a chance against teams like MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin, and OSU. Michigan just needs to get it together and take it one game at a time.

Jaxon5

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 1:47 p.m.

Sorry, UM cannot beat everyone on their schedule, not on their best day. I agree UConn is first priority and it's going to be close. UM should not be favored as UConn is truly a better team. UM can win it if they play flawlessly. Otherwise, it's a loss. The only "sure thing" games, and none are truly "sure", are Bowling Green and UMass. The other games are all going to be struggles and UM should not be favored in any, underscore any, of those games.

aarox

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 1:24 p.m.

That's pretty harsh Jaxon. Or maybe its just putting things in perspective. We will turn this around. The question is When and whether This Regime can do it. We've seen what they can do with Carr's kids. All Top Ten recruiting classes. They get to try again with their own recruits. This needs to work - as in 10 and 2 - or else we have 3 more years of recruiting and rebuilding. Worse than your scenario is that we go somewhere around 7-5 plus or minus one game. We are slightly above average, we win a few games here and there, every Saturday is a nail-biter, and its obvious to everyone that we are not one of the big boys anymore. We get a small bowl game and win it with an opponents' missed last second field goal. Its enough for the body politic to keep the current regime in place. Let's go 10 and 2, or 2 and 10. Either one works for us in the long run.

Robbie Webb

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 1:22 p.m.

Jaxon, you have some learning to do. How about we focus on Uconn first, as they are the first game. What happened last year is last year. We can beat anyone on our schedule as long as we play well.

Jaxon5

Sat, Jul 3, 2010 : 10:31 a.m.

I just watched the end of the 2009 Indiana - UM game. A good goal for UM would be to beat Indiana this year. If it does so, then the season will be a success. Right now, Indiana is there chief rival in terms of ability and execution. Forget OSU, MSU, PSU, Wis, Purdue, Ill - not going to happen.

Jarhead

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 9:14 p.m.

Rude Jude, great story about Bo. I heard one that Bo and his dad were driving by the Mich stadium when he was younger said "I'm gonna coach there one day." Probably an urban legend but sure sounds good. Bo is from the big ten area and coached against Mich under Woody, so he well knew of Mich Reputation, as we all know about OSU's. RR needed an assistant to help him not make such mistakes as the #1 jersey, didn't he? Yelmonian,I am ignorant of the WV claims, do you have a link or website? Don't sound good. AAROX, Ya, I don't think this would happen under Bo. But why did the Compl Director have trouble getting reports in fall of 2007? Were these guys new? or tired? And why did she wait 18 months to say something to RR? I would think it's the compliance dept job to point things out to all coaches in all sports. Why wait till vertually the week the ncaa comes and then try to be prepared. Maybe I'm too hard on the Dir, maybe she needed more help. Why dosen't the dir have more clout? This is where I think they get the "Athletic dept didn't communicate well with the coaching staff" and then it goes down the ladder from there. I'm just not one of those who thinks RR engineered this. One of the infractions is about Quality controll coaches. The ncaa admitts they don't have a definition for them. What I understand is this, the Quality CC's are supposed to make sure that players are to be where they're supposed to be, like follow a schedule, when where why kinda stuff. They would be around doing their thing and if someone needed help or questions or they saw someone training wrong, then they would help out. The way I get it is, the only people who can coach a student is the coaches and their assistants and Graduate assistants. The Quality CC's are working to be coaches one day and know a lot about football and are eager to help. The problem is in the title. Maybe it should be Quality control personall? We will probably see revisions in the Ncaa's bible next year. Yes I do think these things are far more widespread in college football than we know. Its not like the extra time had an impact. And yes I know "rules are rules". Still it makes me shake my head when the papers print "MAJOR". This could have been avoided and rectified had the Compl dept done their jobs. Maybe this falls on Martin. He is a brilliant businessman and helped put the ahtletic dept back in the black. But an athletic director needs to be wary of the politics of dealing with the ncaa also. Hey, everybody have a good 4th of July weekend. Give honor to all those who sacrificed all. Support our troops. OOHRAH!

aarox

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 6:06 p.m.

Jarhead wrote: It is rumored that one of them liked to play "Tropical" on his computer all day. the Director of the Compl dept asked for reports since the third quarter of 2007(before RR got here) and this continued to summer of 2009. Finally, after 18 months, this director got off her tush and talked to an assistant athletic director and to RR. In 1 week she got her paperwork. She needed the paperwork for a scheduled ncaa visit. Problem---the paperwork was incomplete, and THAT is what set the investigation. Ok, lets say this is true. My question is, would this have happened under Bo? Izzo? Would Bo or Izzo cared that these people did not 'report' to RR or would they keep their program what it is/was? My take is we are back to honesty and integrity. Your point perhaps is that it is more widespread than we know?

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 6:05 p.m.

Jarhead... OK... I'll take your timeline for gospel. My only issue is indicating that RR really wasn't responsible, but he had to take blame because he is the head coach... Then why is it WVU just turned in a violations report to the NCAA for the exact same thing... that extended back to RRs time at WVU. There is one common denominator between the two schools. And I don't believe that's the Tropical people. I know... RR just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 5:59 p.m.

Rude Jude, I think evreyone knows about Michigan and what it stands for as a program. I don't think Rich Rod is blind in that sense, what I'm saying is I'm glad, like you are, that Brandon is there with Rodriguez. I agree, September 4th cannot come fast enough! The off seasons are always so cruel and long. Thankfully, it's right around the corner. I'm jacked!!! GO BLUE!!!

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 5:46 p.m.

I think you're right on aarox. I don't have much longer to write, but I hope things don't get worse. Jarhead, I'll definitely check that out. I thought I read somewhere that Coach Rod had his hands in it more than what MGoBlog said, but I'll definitely check it out. And Robbie, wouldn't you say that if Rich Rodriguez doesn't know the tradition and history of the program after over two years, that alone shows how much he cares? Does it really take Dave Brandon, just months before season three, to teach Coach Rod about Michigan tradition? You can stomach that? And on a side note, a guy that cares that little about our program is going to leave as soon as a better opportunity comes his way. Remember, this is the guy who gave up his alma mater to come here. If you read about Bo Schembechler, when he walked into the Michigan locker room for the first time, some of his assistant were making fun of it because it was in need of renovation, however Bo stopped them in their tracks and started reminiscing about Michigan's history, "this locker could have belonged to Tom Harmon," or something along those lines, I can't remember exactly how it went. My point is, Bo already knew on day one all about Michigan football. You'd think before accepting the job, Coach Rod might do a little research or ask someone about it, if he cared a little. I don't think his heart is maize and blue like yours and mine. I'd much rather Coach Rod was a great coach that loves Michigan, especially after investing two years into his system, but I don't think it's there. You may be right that Harbaugh isn't the next coach, but I hope if Coach Rod doesn't work out, they get a guy like Harbaugh that knows what Michigan stands for. It's been fun arguing/discussing even if it's a sour subject. No matter how it turns out, I cannot wait for the upcoming season to begin! Go Blue!

aarox

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 4:58 p.m.

Rude Jude and Yelmonian, Been on the road and just back to see how this discussion is going. I am super impressed with your observations! You have made your points strongly and eloquently to the point that a convergence is started to emerge that H*LL YES WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE. Let me digress for a moment. The history channel shows a number of shows on the world's worst ever engineering disasters. This is a great show if you haven't seen it. So why am I talking about it? Well, they analyze these disasters and try to establish a 'root cause' of the accident. This means digging deep and asking "why" over and over again (almost like a 2 year old does) until they get to the bottom of it. What is interesting (to me at least) is that in almost all of the cases they analyzed, the 'root cause' what that several things went wrong at the same time. No one problem would have caused the catastrophe, but the combination of 3, 4, or more failures, when put together, caused a major catastrophe. Now do you know where I'm going? Individually, the infractions would not result in a catastrophe. By itself, RR putting his own players under the bus would not by itself cause a meltdown. On its own, trying to play a system with the wrong players is not armageddon. Nor is it a fatal failure to blame your predecessor's recruiting even though ESPN show him a consistent top ten finisher in recruiting. And, losing to the likes of *pp*l*ci*n St*te and T*l*d* is not the end of the world. Stumbling and tearing up at press conferences, likewise, is not by itself fatal. And finishing 9th in offense and 11th in defense in the Big TEN, in one year, is ugly but fixable. I can go on, but hopefully you get the picture. If you still don't get it, go watch the Perfect Storm. I am scared as h*ll that this hole is much much bigger than even Rude Jude and Yelmonian give it credit for.

Jarhead

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 4:49 p.m.

About the Ncaa investigation. It pains me too that this has happened. (Nothing like this has ever happened here before.) M go blog had an extensive article with timelines and all on this and how it developed. I will attempt to make this short. Of course you don't have to accept it, respond nor even put blame where it belongs but here goes: There are 2 people assigned to the FB dept that report to the Compliance dept. RR does not oversee them. They watch, fill out reports etc. Problem is---they didn't. It is rumored that one of them liked to play "Tropical" on his computer all day. the Director of the Compl dept asked for reports since the third quarter of 2007(before RR got here) and this continued to summer of 2009. Finally, after 18 months, this director got off her tush and talked to an assistant athletic director and to RR. In 1 week she got her paperwork. She needed the paperwork for a scheduled ncaa visit. Problem---the paperwork was incomplete, and THAT is what set the investigation. The Freep article broke the day after. The one thing that bothers me and it goes to integrity is, one of the grad assistants gave misleading info to the ncaa during the investigation, and he is no longer here, as i've read. We consistantly went over on practice time(I thnk it was always on mondays) by about 15 to 20 minutes. Warm up time was not recorded as practice time. At other universities when this happens the ncaa docks next years' practice time 2 hours for every 1 hour you are over. One of the infractions is the university not comminicating well with the Fb coaches and the coaches not communicating well with the rest of the staff. This is like you get pulled over for speeding and the officer hits you with your tag not in the right corner of your plate. USC got those last two tagged on also. If les Miles were here there would have been the same investigation. He would have thought that people who were already here and being paid to do their jobs might actually be doing them. It is NOT the coaches job to police the compl dept. At least two of those tropical guys should be fired, but I understand that puts the University at risk of being sued. Maybe they could at least be transfered to housekeeping. It cracks me up that the Freep and others always say MAJOR. And then everybody else repeats it also. So you saw RR and DB say that the buck stops with them on this issue. AS it should. Still......

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 4:47 p.m.

And I wouldn't count on Harbaugh coming in anyway. I think he's a great coach, but switching ot a new system again would set the program back even further. Just because he played at Michigan does not mean he would leave Stanford for Michigan or that he would be Brandon's go to guy.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 4:42 p.m.

Rude Jude, yes, I am very aware of what a prediction is. But the way you are speaking is as if you know everything about how Rodriguez is and that he plain and simply will be gone by the end of the season. I have a lot of faith in David Brandon, and I'm glad he's here. Since Rodriguez is not from Michigan I don't think he doesn't know about our tradition as a program, but it's very clear Brandon has a better grasp. So I'm glad he's lending a ''Helping hand'' so to speak. I think Rodriguez is a good man who cares about what he's doing and wants to put Michigan back on top. I think Michigan will be back on track.

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 4:31 p.m.

Robbie, do you not understand what the word prediction means? A prediction is a guess of what is going to happen, based on experience, observation and reasoning. Of course, we won't find out until after the season is over whether Coach Rod makes it another year, well unless the Coach Rod situation manages to get worse...that's why they call it a PRE-DICTION, proclaiming something before it happens. Do you follow? People who break rules, embarrass the institution they work for and give sub-par performances generally lose their jobs. I'm reasoning that since Coach Rod has done these things, including commit what the NCAA defines as MAJOR violations, he is going to be fired come season's end. Unless he has a great season (which I don't see happening) and brings in a great group of stable recruits (so far looking at least for their talent, but who knows how stable?) he is going to be let go. It doesn't surprise me that David Brandon is watching, inspecting more like, practice now. Per my prediction, he's the watchdog or the warden of the program now. Until he's not the coach, it wouldn't surprise me at all that Brandon would speak highly of the coach, as he is doing his best to present a program that is ordered and in control. For once, I feel Michigan has a AD we can count on. I hope I'm wrong, and that Michigan wins and wins big, that Rich Rod starts recruiting intelligent kids without rap sheets, but the only way I can see that happening is by the force of David Brandon's hand. Coach Rod will either accept this (which he won't) giving the slightest possibility he will stick around for another season, or he won't (and he won't!) causing friction between Coach Rod and David Brandon, ending with a quick firing and then hiring of Coach Harbaugh.

Jarhead

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 4:10 p.m.

Rude Jude, I agree on some of your points. The buck does stop with the coach. The first year was ridiculous, 3&amp;8. RR tried to make Threet and Sheridan run the spread. Not happening. He should have waited till he got mobile QBs. However the next year there were 3 games in which we gave up the ball 5 times and 3 games that our recievers dropped passes 5 times. Yes, that is coachable. It falls on the running backs coach and his assistants, the QBs coach and the wide receivers coach and his assisstants. Win 2 of those games and we go to a bowl. Win one more of those and we look rather good. About recruits. 2 of them are going to junior colleges to get their grades up for next year. When they reported about Dorsey's problems the hair on my neck stiffened. But later the papers wrote that his high school coach said it happened in his soph year and he has been great ever since. So do we crucify him forever? In any event he was not admitted and is not a detriment to our reputation. Tressel has 3 also, 1 new recruit, 1 soph and 1 redshirt soph that are having problems with grades and have to go to junior college. I don't think Tressel is tearing down Ohio. Kids in high school eat, sleep, train, dream football, not algebra. Yes I too would like nothing better than 3.5 grade ave student athletes with 5* ratings, fast as lightning. Maybe one day, eh?

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 3:42 p.m.

Rude Jude, don't bank and lose sleep on Brandon getting a new coach, we still have 12 possible 13 games to go before we can look at the future. If Michigan for some reason doesn't not get it done this year and if a new coach is brought in, then great. But do not think that Michigan can't get back on track with Rich Rodriguez. Do not think we are not Michigan just because of some minor violations. Michigan is still Michigan. Unfortunately, we have some proving people wrong to do. Also, Brandon said he likes Rodriguez and is backing him up and challenging one of the sanctions the NCAA handed out. And he's also stated he's attended practice and likes the way Rodriguez is going with it, in terms of scheme. And thank you for agreeing with me with the roster issues, I know Rodriguez made mistakes, and I most certainly agree they should have got at least.500. Actually, they should have won eight last year. But IMO, I believe those injuries, especially to Molk and Minor really played a role in that and could have been the difference in those close games, and even OSU, along with Forcier not making those freshman mistakes.

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 3:17 p.m.

Finally a prediction. Aside from the injuries crutch that you keep leaning on, I appreciate it. It's kind of like predicting Michigan will go 12-0, assuming every player on every team they play this year gets a season-ending injury. But thanks anyway. Regarding the roster issues you keep pointing to, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I agree with you. There have been problems with the roster, and those problems don't excuse Coach Rod from any blame for Michigan's two losing seasons. You work with what you got, you make changes. I'm not saying he should have won the Big Ten, but I think despite the injuries, he had more than enough team to get at least to 6-6, and a chance at a bowl game, especially when they were 4-0 before Iowa. Two out of eight games. Come on. If, say they fumbled less, which is a COACHABLE problem to fix, I don't think it's unfair to say they would have won at least one more game. The roster, you keep referring to has nothing to do with coaching, unless that roster is filled with players that Coach Rod doesn't have respect from or control over. Regardless, true leaders will fall on the blade before they start pointing to others. I read an article about Bobby Knight that said whenever his players took bad fouls or make bad shots, he ALWAYS took it on himself, saying something along the lines of I have failed my players as a coach. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never heard something like that come from Coach Rod. "The Buck Stops Here," should be Coach Rod's new motto. Every team has injuries. Every team has holes in their roster. Some coaches can overcome these obstacles, and some can't. So far Coach Rod hasn't. Regarding the NCAA violations, whether it was intentional is moot. Obviously, if it was intentional it would be worse, but the fact that it happened, that he did not have the proper systems in place, was ignorant of the rules and did not have someone in a position to make sure those rules were being followed, shows to me the man is a negligent head coach. It's as if you were a supervisor in an office and one of the people working under your watch does something against the rules. If you were aware of it (which I don't believe he was) you would be insubordinate, or if you were not paying attention and allowed it to happen you would lack diligence (BINGO!) In other words, he is not in control. If he is not in control, then who is? The kids? And what other parts of the program aren't under control? Not only were these NCAA violations an embarrassment to the program, but a clear sign of disorder within it. Your stance, the "See how this year goes, and we'll go from there," is well and fine until rules are broken and investigations are begun and sanctions are given. I accepted that it would probably take Coach Rod three seasons to get the program on track, however now that I see he is willing to jeopardize the program's standards with his recruitment choices and that he does not appear to be in control of the program, it's impossible for me not to wish him gone. Some people have this belief that if you're not supporting the head coach, then you're not supporting the team, which I agreed with until only recently. The NCAA violations put me at my limit, but these rejected recruits of his, one a burglar, were the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I love Michigan football, and its sad to see it heading down this path. I hope and pray David Brandon will be the savior in all this who will get a worthy coach and get the program back on track, which I think he will.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 2:44 p.m.

Thank you, Jarhead! I'm glad there are some people here who get it. There are some people who think that Rodriguez said, ''Hey, Mallett. Get lost. You're not right for this offense, and over my dead body will I build an offense around your strengths.'' And before Rude Jude jumps all over me again, there are points he made that I agree with like I wrote above. That those who are at Michigan need to have that Wolverine attitude and respect for the program and for others.

Jarhead

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 2:33 p.m.

WV troll, yes I do read your posts, you write well. Thanks for the info. Bo was offered by Texas A&amp;M to go coach there, I think it was a million a year which was crazy back then. We would all have been upset had he left. I have little respect for Saban. I think he is a paycheck whor*. And it would upset me greatly if RR turns that way. 'Course who in their right mind would stay here under all this scrutiny. Check out the Columbus Disbatch. That whole paper and fan base is all about the Buckeyes. Maybe we will too. Yelmonian, I'll say it, "Ryan Mallet left because of RR's "spread" offense. And yes RR did say he would build his offense around Mallet. But I put myself in Ryan's shoes and say, "Fine thats good for this year 2008, but what happens in 2009 &amp; 2010 when the mobile QBs come in?" Ryan did the smart thing, transfer, sit and gain experience and learn the system there and build his stats in his next two years. If the most wanted coach came, Les Miles-who runs the spread, the outcome for Ryan would have been the same. If Harbaugh was available-different story and we probably wouldn't be meeting this way. About the spread- I like it! It works in college. All defensive coaches say it is hard to defend. Tressel sent his Def coaches to App State to learn how to defend it. Joe Pa sent his Off coaches to Texas to learn how to run it. It has been reported that in the last two years, 8 out of the top 10 teams used it. Yes its a system, but I don't think it's a gimmick as some people call it. if Les had come here it might have been a little smoother(Mich man and all), but the transistion would have been just as hard. Bo ran the triple threat option but then switched to pocket passers. Mo and Lloyd followed suit. However I remember there were growing pains, mostly for the linemen in learning different blocking scemes and improving footwork and mobility. But we survived. And we will survive this also. Hang in there bro.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 2:18 p.m.

You guys are putting words in my mouth. I am not blind, and I have yet to be proven wrong with my points with the roster. And I most certainly agree that Rodriguez did not perform well in play calling and decision making at times. But you keep beating around the bush with the roster issues and act like it played no part. I have said NUMEROUS times I am not clapping or giving Rodriguez a standing ovation for the last two years on and off the field. Michigan is MUCH better than violations. However, you guys are making them bigger than they really are. And you said that I think that Rodriguez has done ZERO wrong in what has happened on and off the field. And I never said that. Of course Rodriguez is partly at fault, he's the head coach. I never denied any of that from day one. But I also said it is not entirely his fault like some are making it out to be. Not EVERYONE who is at Michigan is going to be perfect. No matter what it is. If Rodriguez was paying players or playing players who didn't have the grades, then I would be on the anit-Rodriguez band wagon. And just to make you happy, Rude Jude, I predict that if everyone stays healthy then they will be above.500 this year. and while I'm at it, I don't think 6-6 or 7-5 is good enough, so let me just clear that up right now. Anything 7 and below I wont be happy with. But you and everyone else has not ONCE refuted my points about the roster and it affecting the outcome of the seasons. Not ONE time. And to answer your question about Michigan against the PAC 10, they've lost to USC mostly and got stompped by Oregon (Key injuries in that Oregon game, by the way). And just like you, if I'm wrong, then I will gladly eat my words. I agree that if Rodriguez wants to gain more respect, besides winning he has to play things by the book. But once again, I don't think what happened in practice was intentional on breaking the rules. My stance has also been, see how this year goes, and then we'll go from there.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 1:53 p.m.

RudeJude! Awesome!

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 1:40 p.m.

Robbie, I hope your future career is not in financial analysis or some other career path that requires you to analyze and make predictions. Of course we will see what happens, but if you're going to talk the talk, then you should walk the walk and put your neck on the line with a prediction, since you know this team so well. Come on, you can just say if you think they are going to be above or below.500. I will stick my neck out and show you how it's done. Here is a prediction: David Brandon is going to put an end to Rich Rod's recruitment of shady characters and those who don't meet Michigan's academic standards. He'll be watching over the program like a warden and stamping out fishiness before it gets started. During the season there will be rumored friction between Coach Rod and Brandon, and by seasons end with Michigan finishing no better than 7-5, and another sorrowful loss to OSU, Rich Rod will be released from his position and Jim Harbaugh will be hired before bowl season begins. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words, like a man. I think it is funny that you consider critics of Coach Rod "blinded by frustration" when there have been so many clear-cut issues with him that have put the stability and integrity of Michigan on the line. Wins or losses, sure, that hurts, and many are frustrated about that, but these other issues are clear and far worse, and yet, here you are not only turning a blind eye, but protecting the guy. We understand, no matter what, you will never criticize Michigan, even if the head coach robbed a bank, you'd still support the guy, we get it. That said, your opinion's unsound and invalid, because however hard it rains, it's always going to be sunny for you in Michigan World. If you are limited to only see the white in a black-and-white world, how can you ever have opinion about the greys? You're a fanatic, blind as can be, we get it. It's not Coach Rod's fault. Never. I just hope, since you're not giving him any blame for their current state, that, should they start winning, you don't bestow all the acclaim at his feet. If he can't take responsibility now, he can't take responsibility then. We might as well have no coach, because, really, in your eyes, he plays no part in anything, ever, unless it's positive. Here is an easy question for you, Robbie. Do you think Michigan is better than NCAA violations and sanctions, better than lying to the NCAA and better than the recruitment of burglars, which all occurred under the watchful eye of Coach Rod? I hope I get a resounding Yes!, that way we can at least agree on something. And another you didn't answer: What of Braylon Edwards and the other former players who staunchly criticize Coach Rod? I'm sure they just hate Coach Rod because for no good reason, not that they see a program turning in on itself. And you never did answer me about my other question, how has Michigan done against the Pac-10 the last decade? You know, with the conference being so weak, it must be pretty one-sided for Michigan. And it's not like the Big Ten has it's own Washingtons sprinkled in to it, right? Because we all know what powerhouses Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern are. Northwestern almost beating Auburn, a team that wasn't exactly good last year either, has nothing to do with the Pac-10. My whole point is that it is subjective regarding whether the Big Ten is better than the Pac-10. You can think that all you want, but don't speak it as if it's a matter-of-fact.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 1:38 p.m.

Robbie... You summed up everything I have been trying to communicate (along with many others). RR is not right for UM. UM has always excelled, and done it in a fashion that is classy. You just used three people that you indicated you do not feel handle business in a classy manner. When Kiffin is a comparison to RR, that's a problem. As a comparison, this would be equivalent to Izzo leaving Izzo... and MSU then hiring Calipari. Calipari wins games... but the methods are always right there on the edge. That is RR. He is on the edge, and everyone feels it. And many of the UM fans have given up their principles for wins. That's where the issue lies.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 12:33 p.m.

WVtroll, many coaches leave in a fasion that is not classy (See Saban, Kelly, Lane Kiffin). I don't think Rich Rodriguez handled his leave as he should have, but he has also said that he and his wife love the state of Michigan and couldn't imagine living anywhere else. I hope you're wrong about what you think is going to happen. I think you are. I would be very disappointed and upset for someone to do that to Michigan and then Rich Rod would be on my bad side. However, I don't see that happening.

wvtroll

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 12:09 p.m.

Jarhead, I didn't think anyone ever read my posts! Gotta explain my point of perspective here. I was never a WVU fan. I attended a different school, VaTech, so my only involvement was when they were in the Big East. WVU is my home state university, so when it comes to WVU versus anyone (except Marshall)other than VT, I kinda favor WVU. For the last few years, I watched WVU as an outsider. I think I had a pretty neutral stance on them. I could make my judgement calls based on being fair. I was never fond of RR back then. Now, concerning the issue of why WVU was so angry when RR left. Just like a lot of UM fans support their coach because he is THEIR coach, WVU supported RR. Only difference is that he hadn't yet shown his true side at WVU. There were no scandals or legal troubles, he wasn't running off players, and he was mildly successful. He had pledged his life to WVU just like he is doing there at UM. The fans here were angry because they felt like primarily, he had wiggled his way into an upgraded contract the year before he left. All along, he kept mentioning his loyalty to his home state school, and that he wasn't interested in other offers. Then, out of the blue, just before a bowl game, he was gone. Then the bad started showing, things like shredded player records, sneaking out of town to leave, calling prospective recruits (even before alerting his own team about his departure). He would not be available to coach his team through the bowl game. The team was left high and dry. Still think he worries about his kids?? The fans felt duped, not so much because RR had found a better job, but because of the way he handled it all. If he had waited until after the bowl game, and then announced his departure, half of the irrate fans would have been OK with all of it. I see the same thing coming very soon in the future for UM fans.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:44 a.m.

I still want to see Robbie type that Mallet left because of RR and his system...

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:43 a.m.

did not expect him*

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:38 a.m.

I never said the PAC 10 is bad, I simply just said they are not as good as the big ten. When I look at the PAC 10 I think Trojans, and that's basically it. Washington hasn't been great lately, Oregon has been good recently, but with their arrests, they'll struggle this year. The PAC 10 sent one team to a BCS game this year and lost to a big ten team. Iowa won their game. Wisconsin shut up Miami. Penn State beat LSU. North Western surprisingly almost beat Auburn. I don't recall the PAC 10 doing anything fantastic. Stanford lost their bowl game, and without their runningback, I don't think they'll be as strong this year. I can't prove you wrong on that, that's just yours and my opinion. And it took Harbaugh 3 years to get to a bowl game. What year is Rodriguez this year? We'll see who's right and who's wrong. I know Stanford did not have much, but don't say on behalf of Rodriguez, ''Win with what you GOT and win.'' If you say that, the same goes for everybody. Watch what you say. Again, Rich Rodriguez did not have a championship winning team when he started and others did expect them to do well when he first started either.

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:27 a.m.

I defend Coach Harbaugh because he built a great squad out of nothing, has integrity and is not afraid to speak the truth when it comes to his alma mater, unlike Coach Rod who has driven a great program down and has shown his lack of integrity many a time. You keep speaking like the Big Ten is so much better than the Pac-10. Why don't you prove it. I contend that they are relatively equal. Prove me wrong. And bringing this up only for your sake, Robbie, but what is Michigan's record the last ten years against the Pac-10 anyway? I forget, but we must just dominate those west coast slouches the way you speak of them!

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:24 a.m.

Rude Jude, there are three things I live for, my religion, my future career, and the Michigan Wolverines. In that order. To say I wouldn't care is inaccurte. But what hurts me more is fans being so negative. There's a difference with being frustrated and being blinded by frustration. To be honest, the App. State game kept me from making preditions. This is college football. Anything can happen. I believe I'm right. But I am not a psychic. I can't see into the future. So I'm not making any predictions. I believe they'll have a good season. However, if I'm wrong, like I said, I'll stand corrected and I'll still stick up for this team and get behind and strongly support whoever is head coach.

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:16 a.m.

If Michigan went 13-0 and won a National Title, and then the NCAA violations came out, I would have still cared. You don't have to believe me, but it matters a lot to me. Though you claim you care about integrity, your comment sure makes it sound like you wouldn't have cared much if they had been winning. I guess that's what separates guys like me from guys like you. And I think it's hilarious that you won't stick your neck out and make prediction after all the big talking in the rest of your comments. You act like you know the Michigan football team well enough to make a prediction. I guess not. It sounds like you're more concerned with being right than anything else you discussed on this board.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:13 a.m.

Rude Jude, if you're going to say great coaches work with what they have and win no matter what, then why were you defending Harbaugh in his first two years at Stanford? Yes, yes, yes...I know what their record was prior to his arrival, and Michigan was 9-4 prior to Rodriguez's arrival. But you just said great coaches work with what they have and win, did you not? Did you not just say that? The PAC 10 is not as tough as the big ten. So to excues Harbaugh just because he didn't have the players Michigan gets doesn't make sense. Especially when you say, ''Great coaches work with what they got and win.''

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 11:01 a.m.

Is anybody refuting they had a young team and some issues with the roster? So what? Every team has issues with young players and injuries. The good coaches still find a way to win. The fumbles you blame squarely on the players, but you act as if coaching has nothing to do with this. I saw all the times Forcier and other players ran through traffic holding the ball with only one hand. Coach Rod didn't coach, or in his case yell at, them about this, however, he sure was yelling as soon as the fumbles started popping. Fumbling has everything to do with coaching. The more fumbles, the worse coaching, and boy were there a lot of fumbles...

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 10:54 a.m.

Rude Jude, I am saying yes, that ANY coach would have struggled with all those issues. It's not like we were some experienced veteran team waiting for our ticket to California. When you are relying on walkons and 19 year olds out of highschool to take the reigns at the University of Michigan on top of injuries and no depth, what do you expect? I don't have a prediction for the season. I'll have to wait and see like everyone else. I believe they can do great. But if I was wrong, then I would stand corrected and get behind whoever came in as head coach. Yes, Michigan is still young, but not as young as they have been in the past. We should have enough guys to win at least 8+ games this year. I want Michigan integrity as well, but let's be honest here, if Michigan was not coming off two losing seasons, no one would care. Even in the beggining of last season, no one cared when Michigan was being investigated until we lost.

RudeJude

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 10:27 a.m.

Looking over his comments, I'm having trouble pinpointing what exactly is Robbie's thesis that he believes is so correct and irrefutable. He has commented that Coach Rod is not a bad coach or a bad choice for coach (weak claims), that he had issues with the roster (weak claim), and that the offense has proven to work, and then pointed to a stock of common adversities Michigan football has faced while under his tutelage, ones that every team face, including the roster being too youthful and lacking depth, injuries and walk-ons at key positions, and a lack of veteran leadership, however it is that they occurred simultaneously that crippled Michigan football. So, Robbie, is it your thesis that Coach Rod had so much adversity, a perfect storm, that he nor anybody else could have won in those conditions, or something along those lines? You have made it clear Coach Rod is not a bad coach, but what then do you think he is, good, great, or maybe just the best coach available at the time of coaching search? You mentioned youth as an adversity they have faced. Do you think that is still an adversity for this year's squad? Is depth and veteran leadership going to be adversities this year? And what do you predict Michigan's record will be this season? How many wins makes a good season? If you were the athletic director, what is the least amount of wins Coach Rod needs to keep you from firing him? Looking over the schedule, I think Michigan will, unfortunately, do no better than 7-5 (4-4). Coach Rodriguez will lose his job if he does not win seven games. A good season is 8-4 and anything above that makes a great season. Considering all the off-field fiascos, only a great 9-3 or better season would make me want to see him come back next year. For the record, I do not hate Rich Rodriguez, and I expected the first two seasons to be rough. That he lacked administrative control over the program that led to NCAA sanctions has made my opinion of him sour. It makes me worry that if he did not have control over over his staff and assure that NCAA practice rules were being followed, what else is he neglecting? This in addition to seeing his recruits rejected by the university not only for academic reasons but for crime-related reasons as well is proof enough that he has lowered the standards at Michigan. Many people on this board claim those that do not support Coach Rod are not true fans or, worse, traitors to the program. I used to think myself a fan, but maybe I'm more a devoted Michigan aficionado, as a fan will blindly watch their program topple, taking any criticism and deny it or irrationally make it a positive, yapping "it's a national title for sure next season!," ignoring that the program is withering, worsening and worsening. But it is that because I love Michigan football so much that I worry when I see enough evidence that its head coach is neglecting the program, that I cannot help but see his supporters has the traitors. I can accept a few losing seasons to see the program reshaped into a champion, but I cannot accept watching Rodriguez errantly lead away Michigan from what makes it Michigan. Michigan is better than NCAA violations and sanctions, Michigan is better than lousy SAT scores and burglars. How can one accept a coach that brings this to the table and still call himself a Michigan fan? Michigan is better than that, better than taking a head coach that does not understand or take the time to learn the basic traditions of the elite and storied program of which he is about to take charge. He did not understand the number-one jersey, nor conceive how important The Game is. He has relegated Michigan football to a weekly blurb on Sportscenter discussing the state of NCAA inquiry against Michigan, and alienated the program from its former star players, who, thankfully, like Braylon Edwards voice their concern. I guess maybe they are not fans of Michigan either. Before the string of disgraces he has brought to Michigan, I would have gladly accepted another losing season, confident that Coach Rod was leading Michigan to the Promised Land, but he has proven he cannot do that, at least not without costing Michigan its integrity. Forget wins and losses, I want Michigan Integrity first. He has proven he does not understand Michigan, and Michigan deserves better. Michigan is better than that.

Yelmonian

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 10:20 a.m.

Robbie... You keep mentioning facts. One of your facts is that Mallet was going to leave on his own, and RR didn't run the players out. The article I linked specifically quotes Mallet as saying he knew wouldn't succeed in RR's system. He says that RR talked, but really didn't let Mallet talk. Many players left, whether you agree or disagree. My statement has always been, RR is a system coach. He did not adapt to players he had, and then start bringing in others to transition over. All the players knew it was RR's system, and not a team suited to the talent that RR inherited. So yes... when people on here spout that RR didn't drop the ball, fumble, whatever... or state that the team was young, inexperienced, etc... that is on RR. He didn't embrace the players he inherited... which were good players. Instead, he preferred to go with the younger players (whether he asked the older players to leave, or just didn't give them a good feeling about staying), and chose his system over UM's winning traditions.

Robbie Webb

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 9:01 a.m.

What those guys don't realize is Michigan was not very experienced. But according to 3, they had a 9-4 team when Rodriguez came in (Hahaha!). Even guys like Herbstreit had them going 6-6 in 2008. That's just one guy's opinion, but he obviously knew they wern't ''Loaded'' like Lemansblue and 3 are implying. And it's going to be funny to read the comments if Michigan turns it around this season.

Jarhead

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 6:30 a.m.

Funny thing about FB fans, we like to find one person and blame them for all our troubles, and then throw them under the bus. For Mich it currently is RR. A few years back it was the Off Cord Malone. Before that it was the Def Cord Hermann. I don't know WV's history but wvtroll tells us some things about RR at Wv and the grumblings of fans about the coach, much the same as fans here said about Carr in the 2000's. But it does raise the Question of "Then why were the WV fans sooooo mad when RR left". They should be thanking U of M for getting him out of town. Course if things don't get better here, we may be thanking the next school. Still I back RR as I think the team is going to be fun to watch. And lets face it, it is all about entertainment. And speaking of Def Cord it will be nice to have one for two years in a row now. Oh I forgot Greg isn't any good either is he? Yes the cupboard was overflowing. I was so impressed with the leadership of the juniors and seniors of the last two years, it gave me goosebumps. I don't care about the Pros. the Nfl dosen't care about your school, their fight song, it's history, if the players are getting good grades or not or if they are an steroids. They simply care about fresh meat that they can market. I think RR is responsible for every thing wrong here at Mich. I saw him drop all those passes, fumble the ball, throw those picks, miss the blocks and give up the touchdowns. He solely is responsible for those MAJOR Ncaa violations and the oil spill in the gulf. WHEN is he going to bring the troops home. Right after he fixes global warming? Look, whatever RR did wrong, he owns. And whatever he does right, we have to acknowledge that too. Again, time will show that it takes time to overhall a program and that's the rub isn't it? We as a people find it hard to accept change. GO BLUE!

PortageLkBlu

Fri, Jul 2, 2010 : 6:18 a.m.

Robbie, the boys and girls on this blog who say they don't like RR are not being truthful look if they didn't love the guy they wouldn't spend so much time on these blogs in simple common sense. Some of the complainers who carry on about RR really do love the guy but with nothing else going on in their lives it's fun to get on these blogs and play devils advocate. Their obsession with RR really proves their love for him but carry on complainers it is fun to banter with you.

stunhsif

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 11:46 p.m.

The last thing they needed was a QB. The rest of the team STINKS worse than the QB's. God Bless RR. Go Green Go White!!!! The past 3 years have been the best of my life.I cannot stand Michigan and relish every loss they endure! Good Night and Michigan will need Good Luckk!

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:23 p.m.

''We were pretty loaded for 2008.'' Yes! Because Sheridan was such a great quarterback and without Henne, Hart, Manningham, Arrington, Shawn Crable, Jake Long, Adam Kraus, Justin Boren (Traitor), Chris Graham, and Jamar Adams, it was soo simple to just have another 8+ win season. Most of those guys returning on defense was the line, which again was not the issue. And I can play better than Morgan Trent. It's such a mystery why we struggled. You people act like he asked Boren and Mallett to take a hike. You act like Rich Rodriguez is the only coach where players have left. Guess what? There were talented players that didn't like Bo and quit. That's not the first time it happened. Keep 'em coming 3 and Out and Lemansblue! You are only making yourselfs a deeper and deeper hole. ''The days of getting great pro prospects are over until RR leaves.'' Based on what? Lots of teams run some type of spread. And again, you are acting like it's going to be a huge challenge for Michigan to score when no one who has a bit of football knowledge is questioning their offense. It's defense, defense, defense. Period.

Lemansblue

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 8:44 p.m.

3, Yeah with all the talent Coach Carr left would have been great to see Mallett and those recievers and most of the D coming back with the right coach. We were really loaded for 2008. The days of getting great pro prospects are over until RR leaves. This guy runs his QB's alot and they take a beating I remember Pat White talking about feeling like a old man after the pounding he took. NFL prospects want no part of RR's system.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:35 p.m.

Guys like 3 and Out just have a lot of paying attention to do before they are allowed to argue. I know the big east is not a power house conference. But some are making it look like it's easy to get into a BCS game, and that's not the case. Rich Rod did. Brian Kelly did. And while I bring up Brian Kelly, Cinci is in the big east, they play the same competition WV did, and then got destroyed by Florida, which is understandable. But everyone does not complain about Brian Kelly. It is just a wich hunt for Rodriguez. Urban Meyer took Utah (Mountain West Conference, not strong competition) and took them to a BCS game and beat Pitt. He didn't win a championship prior to Florida. The difference is he didn't step into a challenged roster at Florida. People make a big deal that Rodriguez came from West Virginia and that just because the big east isn't a powerhouse conference, that, that makes him a bad coach.

wvtroll

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:24 p.m.

So let's assume, just for fun, that RR misuses these players in 2010 like he did in the 2007 Pitt game when at WVU. Slaton barely played the second half, he wasn't injured, just "misused". WVU lost that game, lost a chance for the BCS championship game, and eventually left WVU. Some say the loss was deliberate just so he could leave for a top notch school. WVU wouldn't renegotiate his contract since he lost, but might if he won. Wouldn't look good if he refused the better contract. Good for him, but all along he was saying he'd never leave WVU. The stuff you guys up there at UM don't know about RR's history just amazes me. Some of it was good, some of it was bad. You should temper your praise with a little doubt. Maybe after this season, he'll show his true colors, one way or another. The really sorrowful thing about all this is that this story isn't about RR at all, but even the UM faithful have a way of showing their doubts about RR in almost any story. Seems about 50-50; at least here on this site. Naturally us trolls are going to speak about the bad - the ones who don't have to play against RR anymore. The ones that do still play RR seem completely happy he's at UM. I'm hoping UM turns it around this year. We need the historically great teams in this country. That's just the way we are. But I don't think it's going to happen because of RR. I think he'll luck into a Pat White who could do it because of his own talent. RR looked good at WVU because he was playing in a terribly depleted conference. Once the ACC stole most of the competitive teams, he did well. The years that the Big East was at full strength, I saw way too many "I'm going to cry" looks from RR. His tantrums were an embarrassment, and his extreme chewing-outs along the sidelines were unnecessary. His trick play failures were always blamed on the players, not himself for calling those plays, even though the opposing teams knew they were coming. And THAT'S the way it was back at WVU. I seem to recall he hasn't changed much after thinking about the UM games I've watched since his arrival.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 7:17 p.m.

Oh 3 and Out...Haha! You amaze me. Lloyd Carr did not leave a 9-4 team. He HAD a 9-4 team. Yes, there is a difference. Rodriguez was not left with Henne, Hart, Long, Arrington, Manningham, etc. Horrible argument! And also, why are you bringing up Mallett? He was not in maize and blue the last time I checked. You keep ignoring the fact that he left because of the offense. Boren also left. You can't count those guys are talk like they were there to play. There's no need for me to have an opinion for what you just mentioned. It's completely and utterly just plain wrong. ''Left a 9-4 team.'' I can't believe you actually believe that. And you can get started on all the Jim Harbaugh business you want. The point that YOU and Lemansblue make is, ''Work with what you got and win'' those are your words, my friend. But just because it was Harbaugh and Stanford, that excuses him? What were you going to say? That he didn't have the right pieces to win in the PAC 10 that just because the team he inherited went 1-11 prior to his arrival? The PAC 10 does NOT have the competition that the big ten has. Yes, Rodriguez had better players to start off with Stanford, but the competition was also much harder. If those Michigan players in 08 and 09 were in the PAC 10, there would not have been a losing record. So to excuse Harbaugh for that just proves your biases and how you just don't get it. Me saying Michigan was young is no secret. I didn't let some cat out of the bag. And I want to repeat myself again by saying Carr did not leave a 9-4 team. That's a laughable comment. He left WITH a 9-4 team. And on offense alone, Rodriguez was left with a walkon to help contribute. That walkon was a nobody in Carr's last season and then he was given the reigns when there was no other choice. You keep beating around the bush, 3 and Out. You're only digging yourself in a deeper hole.

3 And Out

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:59 p.m.

Fact: The Day Lloyd Carr stepped down, he left a 9-4 team that had not had a losing record in 40 years, and had gone to 33 straight bowl games. This team had won 9 straight vs. PSU, 6 straight vs. Sparty, countless straight vs. other BT teams like Purdue etc...and he had a 6-7 record vs OSU in his career. 122-40. Cupboard Fact: The Day Lloyd Carr Retired, he left 3 OL starters, a returning QB with starting experience, 2 RBs both of whom had been spot starters for 2 seasons when Hart was hurt, 2 excellent starting WRs, the starting TE etc. 7 of 11 starters scheduled to return on defense. Lloyd also left a long string of top 15 recruiting classes as well. FACT: LLOYD LEFT THE CUPBOARD PRETTY FULL. Fact: Rich Rod is 7-16+1 with that full cupboard that he was left with. All winning streaks have ended. A winning Tradition has been TORN down. Rich Rod Tore down the proverbial Michigan banner. Now you want other Facts Robbie that you can "refute" with your opinions? Dont even get me started on the Facts of the Cupboard that Jim Harbaugh was left with at Stanford, which was 1-11 before he got there. Peach and Go Blue!

Yelmonian

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:44 p.m.

So Robbie... You were there first hand? You had the discussions with him, and knew he was leaving... or are you basing this on the fact that once RR took over as coach, he started saying he had to think about his options. 'Cause I'm not just going to believe a kid that started quite a few games at UM, had success and such... is going to go... heh... enough, I'm outta here. Maybe I'll believe his quotes. Take a read... http://www.freep.com/article/20080110/SPORTS06/801100423/WHY-RYAN-MALLETT-TRANSFERRED--Ex-Wolverine-felt-%5C-forced-out%5C- So... do we go with "facts" or your opinion of why he left? Of course, I could be completely wrong... McDuff (or whatever that little running backs name was) played for a full year under RR... and RR's ways weren't enough to keep him either. Smile... football is only a short time away, and I'll get to smile with the pride knowing I'm still correct!

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:28 p.m.

Yelmonian, don't get mixed up when I say youth, that's not saying there was no talent. And I also don't know where you are thinking I am clapping or applauding these last two seasons. They were horrible. But I understand why it happened. And what I've presented hasn't been proven wrong, everyone has just beat around the bush. And also GoblueinNE, you were mentioning guys like Brown, Minor, and Grady. Minor was our go to guy, he was also banged up for his career and never reached his full potential, which goes back to when I said key injuries. Grady was not great and Brown didn't really impress all that much either. And if I'm correct, he got banged up last season as well with a concussion. I am fully aware Michigan does not have a go to runningback yet, but Smith (if healthy) showed great promise and Hopkins (HUGE back) should contribute and grow into a good player as well.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:08 p.m.

Haha! Yelmonian, I never said the cupboards were bare. You need to pay attention. Saying the cupboards were bare would be saying there was little talent, which was not the case. And Mallett was not run off. The guy was going to leave anyways when Carr left. He thought about leaving before Rod was even there. So stop bringing up the guys who weren't in maize and blue. And GoblueinNE_PA, no you didn't. You actually further proved my point. One of your arguments was mentioning guys like Warren, Woolfolk, Mouton, and Ezeh, who were all sophmores at the time which goes back to when I said youth. And Morgan Trent was aweful. The line was good, but that was never the issues in the first place. And you are assuming that they wont be better. That's not proving me wrong, that's making a bad assumption. Try again.

Yelmonian

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 5:32 p.m.

Robbie... I can't argue anymore on the points that I have previously stated. Your opinion is that the cupboards were completely bare. Nothing there at all for RR to work with. Heck... he went down to the local grocery store and bought paper plates... had to serve Thanksgiving dinner with plastic sporks, beer pong cups, and paper plates! You think he did a darn good job considering it all. My opinion is that the cupboards were not as full as UM expects, but when RR arrived... he decided he didn't like the dishware in the cupboards. He chipped some of it, threw some away, and in some cases... gave the dishware to some of his most disliked neighbor. In anycase, when he arrived on campus... there was a lot more dishware in that cupboard than everyone is admitting. Heck... I heard that there is a coach down in Arkansas... found one piece of China that RR didn't think was too valuable... it's gonna be worth millions at the end of this upcoming football season. Again, you and I have a difference of opinion. I still don't think you have stated any facts.

GoblueinNE_PA

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 5:21 p.m.

I just showed that you were wrong.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 4:28 p.m.

Yelmonian...I said that what you posted was true, but also what I posted on why Michigan struggled is also true. The speculation comment was directed towards our opinions on the upcoming season, which isn't here yet. I even said, ''In terms of this UP COMING SEASON this is all just speculation.'' meaning until we see them play, all we can do is guess and speculate. I didn't think I had to explain that. Now, again, if you want to go back to the last two seasons, then I haven't been proven wrong yet. If you don't think youth, no depth, key injuries, walkons at key spots, and little veteran leadership was a factor or true, then step up to the plate! Prove me wrong, until then, I stand correct.

Yelmonian

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 4:13 p.m.

Robbie, Speculation? You said it was fact! FACTS MAN! I guess I gave the only true facts....

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 2:01 p.m.

GoblueinNE_PA, we all have to wait until the season starts, but I personally just don't see how you can think this team doesn't look better than 2008. Yes, Leach wont play (Thank God). However, Kovacs is looking to be one of the favorites at SS at this point(Much better fit than FS, though)hopefully one of the RS guys steps up (e.g. Vlad Emilien and/or Marvin Robinson) MUCH better fits at those spots in terms of athleticism and speed. I think the linebackers should be very solid this year. Roh, Ezeh and Mouton should have a great year. The line is not an issue. Quarterbacks, I have no clue who will take the reigns, if it were me I would stick with Forcier. But Robinson has been there and has some experience and we've seen what he can do with his feet, so if he can throw the ball better, he could be better than some would expect. But, in terms of this upcoming season, this is all just speculation.

GoblueinNE_PA

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 1:52 p.m.

Ok, let's try this again. Compare the 2008 team to the 2010 team. I won't even throw in what might have been if Mallett/Boren/Arrington had stayed, just what was on the field in 2008 to what projects on the field in 2010. Returning Starters 2008 - 10 2010 - 15 But if you break that 15 down a bit, you'll see it's not really 15. Kovacks and Williams won't be starting in the secondary. There is a good chance Tate won't beat out Denard. Mouton, Huyge and Dorrestein are all likely replaced. So that 15 is more like 13, with a low side of 9. Advantage: 2008 barely, though if you look at 2 weak points for both squads (RB and Secondary) 2008 had 3 guys w/significant game experience at RB (Brown, Minor, Grady) vs nothing for 2010 and 2008 had a secondary of Trent, Brown, Harrison, &amp; Warren vs Woolfolk and bunch of kids. Injuries 2008 - Nothing really significant, maybe McGuffie 2010 - Unknown. Hope for the best for Tate &amp; Denard Youth 2008 - 6 Sr. starting 2010 - 5 Sr. projected, though IMO Mouton and Dorrestein won't see much game time. Advantage: Pretty much a wash. QB could be the difference here, but not if Denard takes the reigns. Walkons/Veteran Leadership Walkons may favor 2010 as long as Kovacks and Leach don't play. Veteran Leadership favors 2008. Bottom line, the 2010 team isn't shaping up to be much different than 2008. While you may have some guys w/some years of experience in the system, that experience hasn't been very good, wereas the team in 2008 came out of long winning tradition. I'll root for my alma mater every Saturday, like I always have, but I don't see the reason for optimism.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 11 a.m.

Haha! Robbie is doing no such struggling. Hey, Yelmonian, all that you just posted is true, I never denied that. But you forgot to mention WHY the record is the way it is and that's where what I post comes in to play (i.e. youth, no depth, key injuries, walkons at key spots and very little veteran leadership) soo until someone can disprove that and tell me why that played no factor what so ever, then I have yet to stand corrected. And to the sanctions you just implied, again, I don't deny it didn't happen or that it's not Rich Rod's fault, but at the same time it's not all his fault, it wasn't intentional, and there were communication issues, also a fact.

Yelmonian

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 10:52 a.m.

Wow! Robbie is really struggling. I keep hearing the phrase "facts" thrown out. Fact... RR has the worst record of any Michigan coach in a lot of years. Fact... RR has set some standards that have not been achieved (and this isn't good) that have never been achieved at Michigan. And the Fact that the Sparty's are out in full force... well, that should show you the depths that UM has sunk. Keep stocking up three stars RR! We'll see this fall.

wvtroll

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 10:28 a.m.

Sorry, misread the post. Yes you mentioned "implied". I was just used to you stating "facts", although most of the time facts can be twisted and taken out of context of their true meaning. An example is the charts that you and aarox posted. Both are factual, but depending on how you use the figures, a different light can be shed. Can you provide the answer from a prior post to my question about which oponent's string (starters, 2nd, 3rd, middle school, girl's volleyball) was on the field when UM scored all those points? Hope you get my drift here. Showing a chart for reference only shows numbers. It doesn't explain how they were achieved.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 10:27 a.m.

''Rich Rod has no class'' Classic!

gobluemark

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 10:25 a.m.

To all the rr "lovers" you don't get it! It is not all about wins! Michigan fans and students use to have something extra to bring to the table. Part of "IT" is class and what the "haters" understand is that the "coach" doesn't have "IT", period. To me and a lot of supporters we don't care how many wins the team gets under rr, we understand that he doesn't "work" here, I am done buying the "snake oil".

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:49 a.m.

What are you talking about? I know that's my opinion. Those aren't the facts that I present. That was just the point I was implying to Aarox.

wvtroll

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:40 a.m.

"But what I am implying is that based on growth, I don't see how we can't improve. THAT'S my point to answer your question." Sorry, but that's not an answer, but an opinion. They could stay the same. They COULD get worse.

Robbie Webb

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 9:24 a.m.

3 and Out continues to not prove me wrong. I find it funny how he calls my arguments mediocre, yet, he has an issues with actually answering them. Remember Harbaugh's record at Stanford when he started out, pal. Just saying. And, John, yeah I'm begginning to just wait until football season. I've tried to show them the facts and what happened and they keep ignoring it and pointing the finger. At least the good news is the'll all be Rich Rodriguez supporters by the end of the season. And I'll be right here waiting for them. 3 and Out, when you want to make a valid point. Let me know.

wvtroll

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:45 a.m.

Trying to have it both ways again? Cake and eat it too? You can't say how great RR did in the Big East, how he took WVU to a BCS bowl game, and at the same time, claim how weak the Big East is. The Big East champ had a tie-in to a BCS bowl game. By beating all those "weaker" teams, you get an automatic BCS bowl bid. So where's the strength in the BCS bowl game claim? Now I didn't follow a lot of the games of UM in the past two years, so I can't speak facts, so I ask a question here. I know that when a lot of teams are playing weak teams, they get a lot of second and third string players into the game for experience. This usually results in the weaker team scoring points they wouldn't have score otherwise. I think everyone will admit that in a lot of games over the past two years, UM was the weaker team, or why would they have lost so many games. So could this be why UM scored so many points over the past two years?

Jarhead

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 6:19 a.m.

Wow! Over 100 posts here and 80% of it is garbage. This started out as a story on two new recruits and the detractors twist it up that RR is the scourge of the midwest. No one actually READS other's comments for any info they might learn. Instead they try to find a chink in the story to twist up and say something negative to support their own weak theories. What's the matter did they not let you on the debate team in high school? It's true, if Mich had brought Harbaugh in as Off Cord when they let Malone go, next year Jim H would have inherited the team and none of this is an issue. And most likely we would be 8&amp;4 or 9&amp;3 or 10&amp;2. All respectable numbers. BUT WAIT! Wasn't there an outcry from fans and alumni that we weren't competitive and had lost 6 out of the last 7 games to Ohio? How quick we are to forget those days and because things are rough last two years, we only paint Lloyd and the program of the 2000's in glimmering light. How quickly we forget. I'm a true blue Mich Fan, but I think it's funny how people hang their self worth on what some 18 and 19 year olds do on a football field. Whew! I'm tired

John-Maize Blueblood

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 2:13 a.m.

Robbie, Please do me and all the other true Michigan Football TEAM Supporters a favor and quit trying to reason with those haters! I don't know whether or not you realize it, but you are wasting your time with them. No matter what point you try to make, your arguments will keep falling in deaf ears. Let's just wait until the season start playing out. If we are wrong about RR, then we will concede defeat. However, regardless of what November reveals, we will continue to stand behind our belief and behind the coach whether it's still RR or someone else. Because ultimately we stand behind the TEAM, not behind a particular individual. All in all, at the end of the day, I don't believe that we are wrong about RR. I fully understand the frustrations of many fans with two losing seasons, the impatience with justifications or excuses, and the burning desire to see positive results on the field. What I don't understand is the postings from OSU/MSU/WV trolls and other haters literally demeaning our beloved Michigan Football team using RR as a springboard to justify their postings. I believe this team will quiet down the haters this year. Too bad, I have to wait four more long months before that happens.

3 And Out

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 12:37 a.m.

Arox = you rock! Dittos lemans. Harbaugh would be a good fit in a lot of ways. He turned around a loser. Check. Stanford has high academic standards. Check. He knows the Meeechigan integrity and honesty standards. Check. He has some fences to mend. He dissed Michigan's athletic department* Oops. Lloyd Carr called him an "elitist". Oops. Tie breaker - his coaching style fits with us. A top 20 recruiter. I-formation style offense which is flexible to use our strengths. Hard-nosed defense. I'll take him. * the full quote: Michigan is a good school and I got a good education there, he said, but the athletic department has ways to get borderline guys in and, when theyre in, they steer them to courses in sports communications. Theyre adulated when theyre playing, but when they get out, the people who adulated them wont hire them. Yes and now that RR pushed hard to get kids qualified that Lloyd would have never tried (as we have seen in the past 3 years)... and now we know that: Jim Harbaugh was correct. Period. BTW... anyone who rips Harbaugh and compares his record at Stanford to Loser RR at Michigan... clearly is on crack. As stated before, he took a beat up 1-11 Kia and built it in to a PAC 10 contender and bowl team, beating USC 2x and Oregon on the way... Rich Rod... forgot to take the Ferrari to the garage, dismanted the engine and chassis on his own, arrogantly thinking that he and Barwis could put it back together...but the forgot one important thing: They lack the knowledge.... and flash and self promotion can only get you so far...when substance is required and you lack it....well the Ferrari ends up in the Scrap Yard. Thanks Rich and Barwis. Thanks a Lot! Peace and Go Blue!

3 And Out

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 12:27 a.m.

" user-pic Lemansblue Posted 3 hours ago Why would anyone support RR? His record at WV against top 25 teams was 7 wins and 11 losses. In 7 seasons that is 18 games against top 25 teams which is a little over two games per season...they played a weak schedule in a weak conference is this why he is a good coach? His record says he is not a good coach. Now that RR is in the Big Ten it is showing that his system is not working 3-13 in the Big Ten. Last place in the Big Ten...one conference win that is failure. Anyone think MI has last place players? It is the poor coaching the team does not improve at all during the season. RR needs to go he has already failed and dismantled the winningest college football program of all time. Harbaugh would be a great choice." +1 Well said my brothea.

3 And Out

Thu, Jul 1, 2010 : 12:21 a.m.

Aarox...thanks for being a voice of reason and sanity vs. Robbies "points"...and I say that not because you "have my back" or anything like that...its just that someone else needs to get to Robbie to hopefully show him the errors of his myopic and biased thinking and reasoning. The facts speak for themselves. We post facts and data..Robbie/Scooter posts his opinion and rationalizations. Nothing has changed from Day 1 here. Peace and Go Blue!

I agree, Bo, Moeller and Carr got it done. But they didn't have all those issues going against them at the same time when they started, either. That's the flat out truth.

RudeJude

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:54 p.m.

You're avoiding my point, Robbie: Despite all the injuries that year, or any other adversity any other year, Carr, Moeller and Schembechler got the job done. Sure maybe there was only one National Title during those years, but every single team came away with winning records and bowl game appearances. Rodriguez, as of yet, has not been able to do either. Let me add the coaches before Rodriguez never garnered NCAA rule violations, something that only Rodriguez can claim among Michigan coaches. There is nothing to argue there, just flat-out truth. Michigan is better than that.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:41 p.m.

Rude Jude, like the Toledo game, there is ZERO excuses for losses to those two teams. I have always said that. But App. State was worse. Why? Because we are talking about a highly ranked veteran team losing to a division II school. Henne and Hart were banged up, and even though they still played, we still lost despite all of the experience on both sides of the ball. It just goes to show you that key injuries alone can really affect a team. And recently key injuries was just one of other issues with the roster Michigan has had recently(youth, no depth, and little veteran leadership) so WHY is it a shock that we have struggled in big ten play? If you watch the end of the Florida game, Carr said himself that injuries affected the team in the beggining of the season. Carr said that. ''Those aren't excuses, it's what happened.''

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:37 p.m.

I hear you Robbie. I guess we can all have our opinion on Harbaugh. Truth be known I think there are better coaches right here in the Big Ten that could do a better job for us. Sadly, one of them is right down the road. But that is another story for another day.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:34 p.m.

Aarox, why did I have to mention 2009? I know they went 8-4. That's a great season. And it was his third year. Kind of like Rich Rod is entering his thrid season. So...like Harbaugh, Rich Rod should have a great season coming into his third season. Although competition was different (Rich Rod's was much tougher) both were 5-7 their second year and basically the same thing their first year.

RudeJude

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:34 p.m.

First, if you believe Michigan lost to App State because of key injuries, then you're head is in the clouds. The only "key injuries" that team had was their overconfidence and lack of preparation, which, unfortunately, was only remedied by that loss and the following one to Oregon. Yes, I agree, it is hard to win with those points you listed working against you. However, Michigan managed to go 33 straight seasons winning enough games to make a bowl game before Coach Rod. Are you telling some of those 33 successful teams never faced some or all of those adversities? The answer is they did, and they managed them well enough to earn a winning season.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:30 p.m.

Robbie, now you are telling half-truths. This is a basic lack of intregrity that puts you in the same camp as the current coaching staff (my opinion). You said about Harbaugh. "RudeJude, 4-8 and 5-7 are not big improvements." You failed to mention his 8-4 regular season record in 2009. I would suggest that this was a deliberate omission intended to spin a point. You also failed to mention he inherited a 1-11 team and improved every year. Please stop asking for facts until you are ready to use them for the purpose they are intended :)

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:21 p.m.

RudeJude, 4-8 and 5-7 are not big improvements, and they still lost their bowl game this year. I'm not saying Harbaugh is a bad coach, but his success at his start at Stanford further proves me right. Yes, Michigan is leaps and bounds better than Stanford and has better players. No argument there. However, when you have to deal with youth, no depth, key injuries, walkons at key spots, and little veteran leadership all at the same time, it's hard to succeed. That's not up for debate. How do you go from Henne to Sheridan and be successful? How can you overlook key injuries (See App. State game). Someone answer that for me.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:16 p.m.

Dittos lemans. Harbaugh would be a good fit in a lot of ways. He turned around a loser. Check. Stanford has high academic standards. Check. He knows the Meeechigan integrity and honesty standards. Check. He has some fences to mend. He dissed Michigan's athletic department* Oops. Lloyd Carr called him an "elitist". Oops. Tie breaker - his coaching style fits with us. A top 20 recruiter. I-formation style offense which is flexible to use our strengths. Hard-nosed defense. I'll take him. * the full quote: Michigan is a good school and I got a good education there, he said, but the athletic department has ways to get borderline guys in and, when theyre in, they steer them to courses in sports communications. Theyre adulated when theyre playing, but when they get out, the people who adulated them wont hire them.

RudeJude

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:16 p.m.

What was Stanford's record the year before Harbaugh arrived? 1-11. He has an improved record every year he has been there, including Stanford's first winning record since Tyrone Willingham in 2001. I am not an expert on how Jim Harbaugh does it, all I know is that he does it. Taking my Big Ten hat off, if the Pac-10 is less a competitive conference than the Big Ten, it's by a sliver. The Pac-10 is no MAC, and speaking of the MAC, when Toledo is on your schedule and you lose, it makes your argument about difficulty of schedules seem feeble. Regardless of what other people on this site have said about Jim Harbaugh, it is irrelevent. I have no idea how he does it, but he does it. Coach Rodriguez, with a better program, doesn't. Michigan is better than that. End of story.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:14 p.m.

Lemansblue, I thought you were suppose to win with what you had? Remember? That in the real world you have to perform or you're out. That's your philosophy, right? Way to go back on your own word.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:09 p.m.

Lemansblue, I thought you were suppose to win with what you had? Remember? That in the real world you have to perform or you are out. That's your philosophy, right? Way to go back on your own point.

Lemansblue

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:57 p.m.

Rude, Great posts man...you get it.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:56 p.m.

Robbie that's great and I hope you're right. Just be careful about touting your opinions and guesses as 'facts' and challenging people to prove you wrong. What you are saying is NOT fact, just your optimistic view. qed.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:55 p.m.

''Yes, Jim Harbaugh had a bad record with a bad program, that is equivalent to what, Northwestern in the Big Ten? Michigan is an elite program that recruits nationally and is supposed to be on a higher level than Stanford. Jim was given a Kia, Coach Rod was given Ferrari. That they had similar records is exactly my point. Plainly, Michigan is better than that.'' Ahh! But according to everyone here, Harbaugh is the type of coach that adapts to his players and wins no matter what. Everyone here has said, it doesn't matter, you work with what you got and win (See lemansblue and 3 and out). And Northwestern plays tougher competition that Stanford. The PAC 10 is not as good as the big ten and he still struggled his first two seasons.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:51 p.m.

Aarox, I, like everyone else, hasn't seen them play yet this year. I'm not like some of these people who thinks they can see into the future. But what I am implying is that based on growth, I don't see how we can't improve. THAT'S my point to answer your question. I can't say, ''We are definitely playing better than last season.'' when we haven't played a down yet. But if we stay healthy and based on getting older and more experienced, I don't expect anything less.

RudeJude

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:47 p.m.

Yes, Jim Harbaugh had a bad record with a bad program, that is equivalent to what, Northwestern in the Big Ten? Michigan is an elite program that recruits nationally and is supposed to be on a higher level than Stanford. Jim was given a Kia, Coach Rod was given Ferrari. That they had similar records is exactly my point. Plainly, Michigan is better than that.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:47 p.m.

Ok Robbie if there is a Fact in all this please spell it out to me and better to so slowly as I don't see any substance in your post. I understand we are young. That is a fact. Where are the facts that say we are better than we were? I really don't think they exist. As you say, Carr did a good job recruiting. Is RR doing better? If so, lay it out. I have no idea what facts you think you are asserting. Just so you understand what I mean by 'facts', look at NE_PA position. It is challengable, these are reasonably considered views backed up by specific facts. A nice breakdown by position.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:47 p.m.

''Now we have neither.'' Again, you are failing to make valid points. And along with that, I hope you saw the post about Harbaugh that I put up.;) That takes care of that. And Carr said himself that he loves Rodriguez's offense and that he likes how you can run the ball out of it. There some more facts for you.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:40 p.m.

Lemansblue, Henne was a true quarterback, not like Sheridan. And also, you are also forgetting the coach that was there has been there for a long time, I would expect nothing less. And they also had plenty of experience on offense and defense to back it up.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:37 p.m.

Aarox, read it again. Those are facts. And if they are wrong, then prove them wrong. Now join the others who can't.

Lemansblue

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:37 p.m.

Aarox, Speaking of youth and inexperience. Did'nt Mi go to the Rose Bowl when Henne and Hart were true freshman? I wonder how they did that?...Must have been the coaching that year or they were in a good system. Now we have neither.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:34 p.m.

Jim Harbaugh, whome some of these people love, don't realize he was 4-8 in 2007 and 5-7 in 2008! Hey! That's really a familiar point! I'm going to pat myself on the back now. And just to let you guys in on a little secret...the PAC 10 is not as a strong as the big ten, and look how he started. Case closed.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:33 p.m.

umm, Robbie, maybe you and I don't agree on what a fact is. I read an d re-read your post. I find nothing in it - certainly no facts - that support the position that this team has more talent than what RR inherited. If your position is that we have less talent and more potential, so be it - but give us some facts not window dressing and spin about youth. If your position is that we are stronger after two years of RR, again, give us some facts.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:30 p.m.

You people are speaking as if Rodriguez had some big experienced national championship winning team with nothing wrong with the roster and that he just completely tanked. Haha! Wrong!

RudeJude

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:28 p.m.

Am I wrong, or was Stanford not the bottom-feeder of the Pac-10 before Jim Harbaugh, while Michigan was a team that went to 33 bowl games in a row before Coach Rodriguez? Equating what each coach has done with their respective teams is ridiculous. Jim Harbaugh has built something out of nothing with a team that values academics, while as of today, Michigan, under Coach Rodriguez, has only lost ground, both on and off the field. I don't get too caught up in the whole "Michigan Man" label, but if anybody out there is a Michigan Man, it is Jim Harbaugh. I still support Coach Rodriguez and hope he turns Michigan Football around, and I will cheer win or lose. If this or next season happens to be his last, I would love to see what Jim Harbaugh could do, after seeing what he has done with Stanford's relatively limited resources, with the resources Michigan has available to it.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:23 p.m.

''In the real world you have to perform on the job or you are out.'' Yes, but, you have to have the help to back you up.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:20 p.m.

No problem, Aarox. Michigan is CLEARLY a young team. That is no secret and it's something I think we all can agree on. Critics have always talked about the problem being youth for the most part. And with youth, the only place to go is up. These young guys are getting better. Remember, aside from walkon Sheridan, we relied on a 19 year old freshman straight out of high school to take the reigns. And the offensive line was young and underweight last season and Molk being gone really killed that offense. With him being back and with more experience and talent on that line and with the growth of the overall youth, I don't see how you can say they will continue to struggle.

Lemansblue

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:18 p.m.

Brian, Sorry i do not agree with that. In the real world you have to perform on the job or you are out. Mi hired the wrong coach time will not change that. I am looking long term at the program it will be better off without RR than with him. Supporting a team is not blindly following to me if you was a fan then you speak out and not accept was RR has done to this program.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:13 p.m.

Robbie, I want to believe. Since you are the facts guy, help me understand the facts that lead us to conclude that RR has better talent now than what he inherited from Lloyd. I haven't seen much in the way of facts in many of these posts.

GoblueinNE_PA

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:09 p.m.

Schilling and Molk next to Omameh and Lewan, with the 5th spot being a scramble between Hugye, Dorrestien, Barnum, and Washington. Best case, you have 3 guys back w/starting experience, though Huyge and Dorrestien never met a sack they wouldn't give up. The defense is will have at most 6 returning starters, but that's only if Campbell doesn't win a starting spot. Robbie, if you think this team is somehow more experience, map it out. I think you'll find out it isn't, once you actually look at it.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:06 p.m.

Brian Collins - wait WAIT! you are throwing out the baby with the bath water. When you say that the last two years are irrelevant - do you realize you are crushing our last remaining mantra - that we have IN THE PAST been the best of the best. You know, 100 years of tradition and all that stuff. Are you really saying that the past doesn't count!!

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:03 p.m.

Be careful, Brian. Presenting logic and facts is like a foreign language to the clueless haters. It really makes me sick to my stomach to see fellow Michigan ''Fans'' absolutely trashing the coach when it was not entirely his fault by any means.

Brian

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:59 p.m.

"Why would anyone support RR?" For the same reason that people who don't agree with Barack Obama's policies still support him and hope his policies are successful. No matter who the Michigan coach is, I will support him because I want Michigan to win. Michigan is more than a coach or a player... it is the team. If you support the team, then you support the players, the staff, and your fellow fans. That's what it's all about.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:50 p.m.

Lemansblue, I thought I took care of you a long time ago? Back for more? Alrighty! Once again, I refer you to my points that haven't been proven wrong. And just so you know, besides the fact the Harbaugh is not a good fit nor will he be at Michigan, is HE himself started off with a losing season in the PAC 10 which is not as good as the big ten. So there you go. Rich Rod also didn't get the athletes he had at West Virginia and took them to a BCS bowl game. Again......show me a team that had to go through youth, no depth, key injuries, walkons at key spots, and very little veteran leadership all at the same time and did well. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Jaxon5

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:48 p.m.

aarox, thanks for reminder of the horrible, horrible 2009 season. In many ways it was worse than the year before. 7 Big Ten losses in 2009; 6 losses in 2008. Delaware State didn't count in 2009; there were no teams as "light" in 2008. Turnovers were out of control in 2009; turnovers did not seem as frequent in 2008. Actually, they were both horrible seasons, and I am sorry I brought up 2008.

Lemansblue

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:44 p.m.

Why would anyone support RR? His record at WV against top 25 teams was 7 wins and 11 losses. In 7 seasons that is 18 games against top 25 teams which is a little over two games per season...they played a weak schedule in a weak conference is this why he is a good coach? His record says he is not a good coach. Now that RR is in the Big Ten it is showing that his system is not working 3-13 in the Big Ten. Last place in the Big Ten...one conference win that is failure. Anyone think MI has last place players? It is the poor coaching the team does not improve at all during the season. RR needs to go he has already failed and dismantled the winningest college football program of all time. Harbaugh would be a great choice.

Brian

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:43 p.m.

The arguments being presented by aarox and 3 and out are classic examples of moot points. Although this argument about the effectiveness of Rich Rod's offense in the Big Ten is certainly debatable, Michigan's last two seasons are irrelevant. What I believe we all know to be true (assuming for the moment that we are all logical and rational) is that Rich Rod's scheme is heavily reliant on a well coached, experienced, and athletic quarterback who is capable of making quick decisions amidst the development of any given play from scrimmage. Rich Rod has never once had a returning quarterback to run his offense since he arrived here. In all instances where this offense has been attempted with the correct personnel requirements, it has been wildly successful. To assume anything but success out of an offense that has worked virtually every time it is tried is silly and irrational.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:37 p.m.

GoblueinNE_PA, I post facts. No one has proved them wrong. And I don't know what you're talking about, but if you read or listen to anyone who has a bit of football knowledge, the O-line is considered one of the strong and experienced spots this season. I don't know where you're getting this only two people are returning mess. And we are returning quite a few players on defense. Yes, the D-line is solid and I agree we most likely will not have a player like Graham, but they will be able to hold their own. Linebackers should be good with Roh, Ezeh, and Mouton. Woolfolk and Floyd should be good at corner back. Gordon should be a better fit at safety, with returning Kovacs at SS, with one newcomer (Most likely Marvin Robinson) at the other spot.

GoblueinNE_PA

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:32 p.m.

I don't know how any one can rationally make the argument that this year's team is some how more experienced than anything else that Rich Rod has rolled out on the field. The offensive line will have 2 returning starters and 3 kids that have next to zero game experience. The running game will be manned by Sophomores that were on the scout team last year and, if we're lucky, a Freshman. Robinson will be the QB, so there's no starting experience there. D-Line probably is the most experienced group, but they also lost their best player. The secondary will be have only 1 guy w/any starting experience and maybe a couple of true freshman playing. The LB corp is a complete crap shoot and could be made up of all new faces, though Ezeh probably gets one of the spots. Frankly, you could make a good case that the 2008 team had more experience, especially with the 7 returning starters it had on defense. Look, if you want to be optimistic, fine, but don't try to portray that optimism as "fact".

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:31 p.m.

Haha! Jaxon, based on what? Aarox, I don't agree he didn't want to use his players to their strengths. Keep in mind in 2008, despite youth, we had a walkon contributing at quarterback. It doesn't matter what experience you have, if you don't have a good quarterback (most important position on the field) then forget about success. The offense started to click in 09, and losses to Molk and Minor really hit the offense, but they still managed to put up points.

Jaxon5

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:26 p.m.

After reading all of the overly optimistic and hopelessly hopeful comments on this page, one can only conclude that Michigan is well equipped to win the Big East this year. However, they will have one Big East loss, vs Connecticut.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:25 p.m.

Robbie agree fully - Carr was a good recruiter and had good players. A lot of folks disagree with us. It fries me to see these results blamed on his recruiting. But at the same time it's my opinion that RR didn't use them to their capacity but instead tried to fit a square peg into a round offense.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:22 p.m.

Robbie, methinks thou doth protest too much. Factcheck on 3 and out: Fact 1 we finished 9th in offense in the Big Ten. Check. Fact 2 counting Delaware State and Eastern kind is not as valid as looking at Big Ten results. Opinion only but a reasonable put. Fact 3 was that he predicted you would rationalize the 9th place offense. Check!

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:17 p.m.

Aarox, I actually love Carr's players. I love Mouton, Ezeh, Schilling, Woolfolk, Van-Bergan, etc. I don't think the major problem was him not having his players, I think that was a very minor part of it. My argument has always been the issues I named about the roster.

aarox

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:13 p.m.

ok, if you want to spin this into a good offense, have at it. We are Meeechigan and our ego is both our strength and our weakness. We will be improved this year I am confident. We are finally weaning out all of the Lloyd Carr players. Carr had all Top Ten recruiting classes but these were not RR's type of players. Now RR has what he wants. Lets see how he does!

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:12 p.m.

Oooh oooh! 3 and Out! Hey, let me save you the trouble before you reply. ''You're making excuses.'' ''It's Rich Rod's fault'' ''He doesn't care to adapt to his players (Haha!)'' Now that we have cleared that up, for like the hundredth time, will you please at least TRY to prove my points wrong? I want you to give me proof that I'm wrong about what I present.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:03 p.m.

I am very aware of those stats. I tried posting the entire website, but aa.com either is too slow or didn't let me. It had all the stats. But I was just refering to a spartan fan's comment about the offense. I've always said I was aware of their conference play. But their offense has clearly been proven to work, as we put up points against MSU, Iowa, and Wisconsin (all away games) and put up 36 against Purdue who evidently was good enough to beat OSU, despite a poor performance from Pryor. And 3 also got some crazy idea that I said Carr recruited bad players. Where he got that is a mystery to me. And until he proves ANYTHING I've said wrong, I have yet to be corrected.

I never said Carr recruited bad players. I was just answering his remark about the offense. And if it's a ''Flimsy'' argument, then you should have no problem proving anything I say wrong. BUT, you have yet to do so. Sooo, until then I suggest you read and listen to what I have to say, I promise you will learn something. All you have done is point the finger, and that's all. But hey, at least I don't have to worry about you 3, because you said yourself if the team does really well (8+ wins with a win over sparty) that you yourself would consider Rich Rod a praise. Oh yes, I remember that comment very well. I'd get ready to buy your Rich Rod pom poms if I were you.

3 And Out

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 7:05 p.m.

There goes Scooter again...pulling out that 13 game offensive stat line which includes big outputs vs. powerhouses like Delaware State, Eastern Michigan and Western Michigan as well as an utterly bad ND defense... Funny how that vaunted offense sunk to 9th in the Big Ten play...also funny how Scooter never posts THOSE stats (because he cant use them to support his flimsy argument) and funny how Scooter will just rationalize that 9th place BT offensive output with "molk got hurt, blame Carr for recruiting bad players...blah albblahlahlhbal" and on it goes. I wonder if Scoots will be here under the Robbie Webb moniker once this team goes 5-7? probably not.

Rude awakening... we are awaiting. I actually think that MSU has a better coach. He is building a program from nothing, and has remained competive in most games. MSU gave Texas Tech a run for their money in last years bowl game... when MSU was down 10 or so players. MSU gave Georgia a run for their money 2 years ago int he bowl game... when Georgia had a preseason number 1 program, top QB in the game, and a first round running back. I would do the comparison against UMs top flight opponents in the bowl games... but UM doesn't go to bowl games with RR as coach. How's that joke go? Why does RR eat his cereal off of a plate? Because he doesn't know what a bowl is! Buh bum bum! Tshhhh! So yep... UM can keep RR and his gimmick offense. MSU will stay the steady course... and keep slowly improving. And I truly believe the Spartans are in a much more realistic world than Tater... the believer that Izzo started the downfall of the Spartan Empire.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 6:05 p.m.

MSU barely beat Michigan both times against a very challenged Michigan roster. It had nothing to do with Rich Rodriguez being the coach. So if Sparty fans really think that just because Rodriguez is the coach that they are leaps and bounds better than Michigan, they are in for a rude awakening.

Yelmonian

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 5:56 p.m.

Spartydidyourlilsister.... Again, I'm going to just ask... is this how far UM recruiting has sunk? UM has now sunk to legitimately comparing their recruits to MSU's? Remember, MSU hasn't been to the Rosebowl since '88, had a 3-9 season before Dantonio got there, and with all honesty... got to basically get second selection for recruits behind UM for basically my 40 years. And yet.. here you are, actually comparing your recruits against MSU's... and I would say the two classes are fairly equal. UM has (2) 4 stars and the rest 3s... MSU has (1) 5 star and the rest 3s... The reason the Sparty's are pounding their chest... is because they see a legitimate shot at beating UM every year that RR is coach there. Under Carr... the best we could hope for was every 4 or 5 years. Now we know that we have a chance every year. And until UM can beat MSU again... the Sparty's get to live in the present... and UM in the past.

NoBowl4Blue

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 5:35 p.m.

Curious I checked OSU 2011 class thus far. The good news is they have 7 3stars. The bad news is they also have 7 4stars and 2 5stars. They apprently also have a good chance with 2 more 5 Stars and 5 06 4 stars. Better hope those stars don't mean much.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 5:07 p.m.

I understand that there have been coaches in the past that haven't worked out, but I don't think that Rich Rod was a desperate hire and that no one did research on him. I just don't see how anyone at any school would not do research on a hire. Was Rich the primary choice? No. We all know Les was. But at the same time, I don't think Rodriguez was a bad hire at all. Like I said, I'll support whoever is head coach. I love this team. But after doing my homework and looking at both sides, my two cents is Rich Rodriguez was a dark horse choice. If everyone stays healthy this year, this is going to be a fun season to watch.

azwolverine

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 4:57 p.m.

Robbie, I don't want you to think I'm getting on your case, because I'm not. However, when you say Michigan wouldn't have hired a bad coach, I disagree with that. The problem, imo, was the man in charge of the hiring, Bill Martin. He was good in business, but mediocre at best in his hiring decisions. Tommy Amaker? That didn't work out (and it went on FOREVER!). John Beilein? He's okay, but not great. I think there were better coaches out there for a program like Michigan. The "Gone Fishin'" sign on his door when he's supposed to be making the biggest hire of his career with Les Miles? Offering the job to the mediocre Rutgers coach? RR was a quick, non-researched fall-back made out of desperation. I agree that usually Michigan has AD's who know what their doing in terms of hiring, but Bill Martin was not that man.

spartyisyourlilsister

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 4:46 p.m.

Just have a hard time understanding why the Spartys are over here pounding their chests. Your coming off a 6-7 season, with an embarassing campus brawl and other than Lawrence Thomas, your recruiting class is filled with two and three star athletes according to scout. But your team beat two of the worst Michigan teams the past couple of seasons, so I guess that is all that matters to you.

Yelmonian

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 4:25 p.m.

OK... I'm back! Hope you missed me PortageLkBlu. If you didn't want to hear from me... go log your complaint to Tater. I said I would stay away until football season.. unless Tater annoyed me on the green sites. He did. So... RR is pulling in the big three stars! With all that tradition that Lemming is referring to (basically said UM should be in the running for any player), RR's work is impressive! Not only does RR pull in 3 stars, he's targeting highly intelligent players. Did UM really have a kid not make grades that was gonna be a QB? A potential QB could not make grades?!?!? Isn't that supposed to be one of the most savy players on the team... learn a playbook immediately type player... but he can't make grades? RR would have had a real opportunity to show how good of a coach he is! "This kid is not real smart... but I coached him up realll good like!" And to any of you comparing Stanford to UM... my how UM has sunk. You want to compare the coaching record for the past couple of years at Stanford to the coaching record at UM? UM has a 110,000 seat stadium (or whatever it is now)... and Standford closed off a section of their stadium to make it look sold out. Standford has never been a football powerhouse... and has a dancing drunk tree as a mascot. UM is one of the legends of the football world.... and you all have sunk to comparing records... and actually justifying it! Any coach at UM should automatically have 3 more wins a seasons than any coach at Stanford. End of Discussion! It's a good thing Nebraska joined the conference. Now a team will actually give OSU a game! My how times have changed!

PortageLkBlu

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 2:04 p.m.

troll, people like a five star recruit better becuase it sounds better than a 3 star but that doesn't make it fact no matter how much some of you want it to be, hello. Stan, you said some intelligent things nice to hear it once in awhile. Now here is one more intelligent thing you complainers won't like, RR is here to stay becuase he is a good coach that had a rough start due to the age and skill level of his team RR's first 2 years. Okay now you complainers write this down, The kids are older now and their skill level will be much improved. In football just like in your life you will find that your skill level will improve with maturity.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 2:02 p.m.

Rodriguez bleeds maize and blue! How can you not? This is OUR year. Only about 65 days left. GO BLUE!!!

gobluemark

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 1:57 p.m.

We all saw it in his first season. When he started showing his true colors, and they are not maize and blue. Go Blue! ( no other slogan needed )

wvtroll

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 11:56 a.m.

Two things that I find funny here. Firstly, if UM never hires a bad coach, why do they keep getting rid of the good ones from the past? If the stars don't matter, why do people get all excited when they announce a 5 star recruit? I think in time, most will be happy to just have ANY recruits if things continue. You can't have it both ways, no matter how hard some of you argue against yourself.

spartyisyourlilsister

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 11:40 a.m.

It's funny how there are so many people pining away for Harbaugh on this site. He had a 4-8 record his first season with The Cardinal then followed it up with a 5-7 season for his second season. That's eerily similar to what Rich Rodriguez has produced his first two seasons with Michigan. It's also funny that most people just assume Harbaugh will be there for the taking when Michigan comes asking. None of the top coaching prospects came busting down our door once Lloyd retired, why do you think they will now?

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 11:33 a.m.

Rich Rodriguez is not a bad coach. Everyone should see that this season. It can't come fast enough. GO BLUE!!!

gobluemark

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 11:27 a.m.

I never thought that Michigan would have our own "John Cooper". Hopefully Michigan is a faster learner than osu was. Robbie if you think that Michigan can't make a mistake and hire the wrong guy you are fooling yourself. RR is not the first bad coach to be hired by the school and probably won't be the last.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 11:12 a.m.

redcedar, don't worry, MSU and OSU will get their wish. He'll be here for a long time. But you'll be eaiting your words come October 9th. I wouldn't get too cocky, MSU barely beat us both times against a very challenged Michigan roster. Haha! See you in October.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:48 a.m.

Mark, I understand his opinion, but it does not make sense when none of us has really seen what he can do with experienced talent. Michigan has not been an experienced team lately. We have been real young. No one would have come in an had an outstanding season. I am NOT blind follower. I do my homework and realize what is going on. I don't care who is at the helm, whether it's Rodriguez, Carr, Harbaugh, Miles, Meyer, or anyone. I'll support whoever is head coach. Michigan would not hire someone who didn't know what he was doing. I really can't wait to read the comments from the haters (If any) when Michigan does good this season.

gobluemark

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 10:25 a.m.

Yes robbie he can say that rr is not a good fit because that is his opinion and that is what all these comments are. Also there are analysts that agree with that but they have to watch what they say so you will hear a watered down version. RR is being exposed as the "snake oil salesman" that he is. He is not a good fit here and is truly over his head.

Robbie Webb

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 9:56 a.m.

3 and out, Michigan has ALWAYS recruited 3 star players, go look at Carr's recruiting classes, they are not full of five star players, and Rod has grabbed quite a few 4 stars and five stars. Even this past year with two losing seasons he managed to grab Cullen Christian, Marvin Robinson, Kenny Wilkins, Ricardo Miller, Jerald Robinson, Devin Gardner, Richard Ash, Jibreel Black, Josh Furman, and Austin White. All 4 star guys, excepth Devin who was five star. And nobowl, I was making a very valid point that just because they are 3 star recruits that, that doesn't mean they can't play. Michigan does not always need someone from Michigan to come and coach them. You cannot say that he is a a wrong fit. There are others (analysts) out there whose opinions suggest that Rich Rod knows what he's doing and realize all that was wrong with the roster. You can't expect any coach to be successful with all the issues with the roster. No one would have done well.

GoblueinNE_PA

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 8:57 a.m.

I'll be interested see what all the RichRod supporters around here will say after we have another poor season and the guy is on the ropes. Will you still raise him up on high? Will you still worship at the shrine of the WVU spread? Will still makes excuses over a lack of talent? Hmmm....

timeatwork

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 7:24 a.m.

I agree that stars are not a guarentee of a players skill. I look at them more as odds. you have a much better chance of getting skilled players if you fill your roster full of 5*, instead of getting lucky with 3* players like mike hart and greg jones. so these kids aren't bad because they're 3*...but i do think that they are the type of players rr needs in his system, even if that system isn't competitive in the big10

John-Maize Blueblood

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 6:52 a.m.

You RR Haters and Bashers really don't have anything good to say about this football team no matter what the news is. I'm curious to know what all of you Naysayers are going to do come November in the LIKELY event that the team has had a solid winning season. Are you going to change your names? Change your tunes? Shut your pipes? Or better yet, disappear for good from this site? I am anxious more than ever to watch the upcoming football season play out. Go Blue!

stan

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 6:48 a.m.

Several things: 1. I would trust the evaluation of a proven coach like Rich Rodriguez and his staff over the premium services. This staff puts a ton of importance on how these players perform at camps that the staff attend. 2. The "Michigan Man" thing is worn out and I wish Bo had never said it. Before Bo was hired here, he had no Michigan background, just like Rich. Les Miles was only successful with Saban's players and Harbaugh didn't have success at Stanford until his third year there. 3. Michigan NEVER got exclusively 4 and 5 star recruits as 3 And Out seems to think. 4. Macabre Sunset, your assertion that Rich Rodriguez is not a good football coach couldn't be more wrong. We get it, you don't like him, why is it necessary to constantly point that out? I suspect if you had been around when Fielding Yost was here you would have called his successful offense "gimmicky" as well. 5. Last but not least, both of these players have tremendous upside and likely will benefit from a redshirt year.

PortageLkBlu

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 6:45 a.m.

When it comes to the difference between 3star and 4star you cannot tell untill 3 or 4 games into the college season and that's a statistical fact for instance, particular style such as the one RR puts into play, no injuries such as strained muscles, ligaments, tendon etc., maybe the 5 star can't play in pain and the 3 star can or maybe something as simple as, the kid is not happy with his environment and wants to play closer to mama. The star system is quite often as flawed as the college rankings but it does give the gamblers a point of reference just like the mythical college rankings or national championship game.

NoBowl4Blue

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 6:22 a.m.

Funny how all of a sudden all these 3 stars will become a stud, Michael Hart or Sam Bradford now that Rich Rod is recruiting them. Defending a losing proposition or coach only makes one a loser. Wake up smell the coffee, RR was, is and will always be a bad match for U of M. Bring in a Michigan man who understands what it means and the 4 and 5 stars will start coming again.

cory mccormick

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 6:07 a.m.

Recruiting has become a huge off-season concentration, I am not sold on Rich-Rods Digressions either on the field, nor off the field; Winning will do everything for his remaining time on campus, and so will a healthy more experienced Offensive Line, last year things certainly took a turn for the worse when Molk went down, and regardless of any aspect that is a threat this coming year, kicking, secondary, middle linebacking, without a solid conforming O-line, we are dead in the water.

3 And Out

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 2:53 a.m.

^ the saddest thing about all of this is that Spartys like redcedar of all people...the most mediocre program ever in the Big Ten, 6-6 year out and Michigan's whipping boys are all talking trash more than ever... and that is on your boy Rich Rod apologists! the sooner he is gone..the faster that talk shuts up.

Macabre Sunset

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 1:48 a.m.

Yep, sometimes lower-rated players wind up better than higher-rated players. Usually, they don't. That's why the higher-rated football coaches go after higher-rated football players. Sadly, RichRod is not a good football coach, so the higher-rated football players are less likely to attend Michigan, as they aspire to NFL careers. I suspect RichRod is already aware of this, which is why he is focusing on lower-rated players this early in the recruiting year.

3 And Out

Wed, Jun 30, 2010 : 12:39 a.m.

Thanks Robbie for confirming that Rich Rod is now going after the same 3 star recruits that a school like Stanford is forced to go for....lol whatever happened to Michigan getting 4 and 5 stars completely... lol....and your 3 stars are not qualifying academically either....lol...keep spinning scooter... keep spinning, we all know the real reason why you want Rich Rod to stay.

UMguy

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 10:04 p.m.

Sometimes the lower rated players may have a chip on their shoulders that make them overachieve.

Robbie Webb

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 9:11 p.m.

Oh! And one more thing 3 and out, I hope you realize Jack Miller was recruited by your boy Harbaugh (Who wont be at Michigan). So obviously he saw something in this kid, too.

Robbie Webb

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 9:08 p.m.

3 and out, you continue to unimpress. I hope you know rankings don't mean anything once they step on campus. Hart, Sam Bradford, and Ingram just to name a few were 3 stars. And gettingbluer, get real. Rich Rod is not going anywhere, and you'll see that this season. And nobowl, Miles and Harbaugh will not be coming to Michigan unless they're just visiting.

Eduardo Godinez

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 8:52 p.m.

What are you guys crying about? You think the coach would recruit guys that suck? You think all the analysts are correct when they rate these HIGH SCHOOL kids with stars? There have been many five stars (Kevin Grady) that turn out to suck and many three stars that turn out to rock (Mike Hart). Get over yourselves, be patient &amp; let's see what these kids do on the field! No wonder why there are so many Michigan haters out there. Go Blue!

Macabre Sunset

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 8:37 p.m.

If Lemming really believed that, he'd point out Rodriguez is making a mistake for offering 3-stars this early. He's just throwing a bone to us desperate Michigan fans.

NoBowl4Blue

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 8:26 p.m.

3 stars top players? What is this Indiana? 4 &amp; 5 star kids are heading to Alabama, Florida and Ohio State because they know there's a good possibility Rich Rod will be toast maybe even before the end of the season. Harbaugh or Miles coming in will help get better players but most likely not this year as most will be committed.

gobluemark

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 8:15 p.m.

Amen @gettingbluer couldn't agree more."They're in on more top guys than ever before under Rodriguez," Lemming said. I thought 5 star rating was the top?

GettingBluer

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 7:45 p.m.

Mick52, it'll turn around right after RR's packing party at the end of November.

Mick52

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 7:26 p.m.

I think in order to impress good recruits, the team will have to have a solid year. If it looks like M is coming back from the slump, players will come, if its another loosing season, the jig may be up. Great players want to win, be champions, go to big bowl games. That's why we were so successful. I sure hope it turns around.

3 And Out

Tue, Jun 29, 2010 : 7:20 p.m.

Two more 3 Star (or lower) rated players for Coach Rod to "coach down" to the bottom tier of the Big Ten! Way to Go Rich!! The QB has only played ball for 2 years too..... #1 program in CF history, now taking 3 stars on 6 of the 7 recruits for 011. Nice. The Rich Rod Error continues.