DR. SAHELIAN: I've been experimenting with different forms. Today, I'm on 20 mg of sublingual. I've tried the regular pills, the micronized, the sublingual, the cream. In fact, today some company up in Toronto called me to send me the spray form of pregnenolone. I like them all. They seem to have different effects in subtle ways.

And my thought is that with each form, we're getting a different set of steroid hormones circulating in our system. Let's say you ingest the oral. It goes to the liver, where much of it is changed from pregnenolone into 17-hydroxy pregnenolone and to DHEA and to progesterone, and the whole mix and whatever is poured into the blood stream goes into the central nervous system giving a different effect. With the micronized form, most of it goes into lymphatic system, and it gets to the bloodstream, mostly as pregnenolone or 17-hydroxy pregnenolone. And in the brain, well, it would have a little different effect. Sublingually, you get most of it as pregnenolone, quicker to the brain.

As to the cream? Who knows how much of it is getting in and how it's changing before it gets into the blood.

So basically, practically speaking, I'm telling people I don't know in the long term which one of these forms is going to be healthiest for us. If you're taking it for 5 or 10 years, it may be better to let the liver work with it a little bit. But for practical purposes I tell people, try at least two or three different forms and stick with the one that you prefer, the one that's giving you the best CNS effect or the best effect for your particular mental or medical condition. Or sometimes you can even combine two forms.

One of the reasons pregnenolone often seems to have as many benefits as vitamin C is because the body makes all other steroid hormones from it (out of cholesterol). The theory is that you can "rest" the adrenals by taking preg (and DHEA) and thus my interest - making my own cortisol. Women should love that a "pregnenolone spray" can erase wrinkles, etc.

Pregnenolone has been found to be 100 times more effective for memory enhancement than other steroids or steroid-precursors in laboratory mice. Pregnenolone appears to be the most potent memory enhancer yet reported in animals.

In review, my last total cholesterol was something like 130 mg/dl (after being 160 mg/dl for years - after starting lysine, and 180 mg/dl for year prior to that on high vitamin C.)

My Life Extension blood work also showed all sex (steroid) hormones were low, I was anemic (been taking iron since June), and I am now officially diagnosed with "adrenal insufficiency" and I finally have a reliable ongoing prescription for cortisol in the form of hydrocortison.e (My new endocrinologist took me off methyl prednisolone and I seem to be fine on HydroCortisone)

As this great diagram shows (plan to scan an insert later) from the first link to a the pregnenolong book above, When the PREG experts say that all other steroid hormones derive from pregnenolone - they mean it. And pregnenolone (like vitamin D) is constructed out of the cholesterol.

So my extremely low cholesterol must be a factor in the adrenal malfunction.

I have just started taking sub-lingual pregnenolone and DHEA as 25 mg tablets daily, but I am wondering if this is enough to overcome my "cholesterol-deficit". (I am also trying to eat foods high in cholesterol, such as eggs once or twice per day.)

I am tempted, based on the complete lack of toxicity of PREG and relatively mild toxicity of DHEA to go on a very high loading dose for a while... Johnwen, I'd be interested in your thoughts or cautions.

So my extremely low cholesterol must be a factor in the adrenal malfunction.

BINGO!!! "Open the door and the light comes ON!!!" This is what I been trying to tell you all along!

Now I'm going to share a dirty little secret with you that NO One in the medical community wants people to know!! Ready?

Simple "Insulin is what controlls cholesterol!!"

Low insulin= Low cholesterol

Insulin that is not used in metabolizing sugars travels to the liver. This is interpeted to mean that energy levels are low and time to rebuild. If insulin levels are high causing more cholesterol to be produced but the cells have ample fat supply where does the excess cholesterol GO?? (answer: sits in the blood till it can be used ie HIGH CHOLESTEROL!) To Rebuild the liver will Send out building blocks (FAT) incased in a water capable transport system (lipids). Remember "Oil and water don't MIX!" Blood is 90% water. Cholesterol is Fat, oily greasy Fat! It must be encapsulated to make it to the cells, for nurishment.It's a balancing act but the basics are cells need two esentials to survive they are "SUGAR and FAT!" without the proper amount of either things start falling apart. Something to think about!!

Type 2 diabetics have high cholesterol and a higher rate of heart disease. No not because there cholesterol is high but the cells of the heart are not getting the sugar to survive and start falling apart and then the cholesterol patchs these holes, sometimes to much.Type 1 diabetics have low cholesterol but usually surcome to steroid related problems and brain malfunctions. The problem with type 1 and heart disease is usually id'd as type 1.5 where their resistant to the insulin being used.Research these subjects but make sure your findings are prior to the early 90's before big pharma found their cash cow in statins .

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many isresearch!

johnwen wrote:Research these subjects but make sure your findings are prior to the early 90's before big pharma found their cash cow in statins

Interesting on many front (but I apparently do make insulin, and I am taking Lantus (and now humalog before dinner).

I'll tell you, that I am now supplementing both pregnenolone and DHEA, and I am reading a pretty good DHEA book, and it is EXCITING from many standpoints. I'll wait until I finish before recommending this particular book, but i have started working out again.. Finally...

This DHEA author's theory is that "low DHEA" blood levels are the cause of almost any illness you can think of, and that as people age, when DHEA begins to REALLY drop, all hell breaks loose and we age. Nature's way (genetics) to get rid of older people that can no longer procreate

His theory, that he practices (clinical nutritionist), is that by bringing DHEA levels back to youthful levels, cells rejuvenate. (I note that most of his cases are 10 years younger than I am, so we'll see...)

It would seem that the proverbial "Fountain of Youth" may be possible, based aroundOptimal Vitamin C and Vitamin DDHEA/Pregnenolone Hormone Replacement (say after age 35-45) He recommends saliva testing.General Linus Pauling antioxidant protocol.

Sounds like your reading Stephen Cherniske "The DHEA Breakthrough."I read it about 2 years ago. He makes some pretty good points however like other homones produced in the adrenals it's is a product of cholesterol. Low Cholesterol = Low homones!In the case adrenal homones the sterol component is the main product needed to produce these hormones.So I would say "YES," Supplementing with these replacements will stop the symptoms but will not cure the problem! ( Kind of like modern medicine! Where CURE is NOT a option!)

In your case you need to get your cholesterol levels back into a doable range like 160ehhh better 180 or tickling 200 and I have no doubt in my mind all these syptoms will diminish.It's like a factory "If the raw product is not avaiable Nothing will be produced!"To me it appears some more testing needs to be done to see what is holding your cholesterol production back.

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many isresearch!

Johnwen wrote:Kind of like modern medicine! Where CURE is NOT a option!

John, I just had to say/post: I love your quote.

Kudos,

David

JFYI, I have ingested a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid [via one gram tablets], in HEALTH, not illness [of which I have had virtually none], basically every day since 1994, amounting to [currently], on average, 75+ grams [daily], in 10 to 15 divided doses.

Johnwen wrote:Sounds like your reading Stephen Cherniske "The DHEA Breakthrough."I read it about 2 years ago. He makes some pretty good points however like other homones produced in the adrenals it's is a product of cholesterol.

Yes. He is a little full of himself, but he has been at this awhile (Consulted for the 1984 US Olympic team).

Low Cholesterol = Low homones!In the case adrenal homones the sterol component is the main product needed to produce these hormones.So I would say "YES," Supplementing with these replacements will stop the symptoms but will not cure the problem! ( Kind of like modern medicine! Where CURE is NOT a option!)

Part of the thinking is that by supplementing PREG, you spare cholesterol from the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone. So there is more sterol for other purposes - eg vitamin D. I'll tell you after 50 mg of both PREG/DHEA, (25 sublingually twice per day) plus the cremes at night, I feel pretty darn good...

In your case you need to get your cholesterol levels back into a doable range like 160ehhh better 180 or tickling 200 and I have no doubt in my mind all these syptoms will diminish.It's like a factory "If the raw product is not avaiable Nothing will be produced!"To me it appears some more testing needs to be done to see what is holding your cholesterol production back.

First I spend a lot of time under a UV/B light - I don't get sick anymore, but that may be one reason my cholesterol is so low.

Second, we know that the body produces cholesterol in response to low vitamin C levels. I have had such high levels for so long, my body may not think I have any toxins to fight.

Not yet finished with DHEA Breakthrough by Stephen Cherniske but since Johnwen figured it out, I will say this guy was right w/r many areas I do (think I) know something about. Good extensive knowledge and I trust his judgement.

Heart DiseaseCalciumWeight Loss

He started on the wrong foot discussing heart disease, thus my hesitation, but I now see that he wrote this in 1996! So he can be forgiven for not mentioning vitamin C in relation to heart disease. But otherwise he got it right on, (about cholesterol not being the bad guy, perhaps because he knew DHEA was made out of cholesterol), and his view re: cardiology in general. He has some wonderful quotes:

Stephen Cherniske wrote:pg 47 - DHEA Breakthrough

"Did you know that bypass surgery (in which a blocked coronary artery is replaced by a clean artery obtained from the thigh) is one of the biggest growth industries in the United States? Would it surprise you to learn that this procedure brings in more money to metropolitan hospitals than does any other type of care? In many cases bypass surgery accounts for 30 to 40 percent of a hospital's total income."

Stephen Cherniske wrote:The medical establishment refers to bypass surgery as "preventive care" even though studies show that bypass surgery does not extend overall life expectancy. (That's because the newly grafted artery usually starts clogging right away.)

Stephen Cherniske wrote:Then there are the drugs used to lower blood pressure and cholesterol -- another growth industry. These drugs are also called "preventive care" even though there are studies showing that individuals treated with them have increased overall mortality and even though an entire class of blood pressure medications have been shown to increase the risk for heart attack.

Not bad for 1996! He was also right (or at least preceded and agrees with Dr. Levy) that the emphasis on calcium to treat osteoporosis is misguided and "hype." He does mention vitamin C as one of the nutrients "helpful" in this regard

And finally he used to advise his clients on the ordinary "low cal" methods of weight loss, but decided to quit his practice and go back into research when the low calorie diets not only didn't work, but actually had the opposite effect. He like Dr. Grundy use a genetic DNA reasoning, but they differ slightly. Cherniske (at least in 1996) thought that starvation diets promote the "lets store fat" (because we are starving program) while Grundy thinks the foods available in the summer, provokes the "winter is coming, lets store fat DNA program." Either way, they seem to agree that grazing (several small meals) rather than gorging is the way to go. He cites an enzyme (CCK) which stops hunger, and is emitted in response to protein, and some people are slow to produce it. (He suggests eating some digested protein just prior to a meal). Then there is the fat storing enzyme LPL - and he describes way to keep this enzyme in check (and other tricks) of course in conjunction with exercise and DHEA supplementation.

You are reading the right book if it explains how Japanese sumo wrestlers get huge following the typical American eating pattern.

Noticed that in 1996 Cherniske was in his fifties and when he discusses his own experiment on DHEA (DHEA Breakthrough) he listed his own cholesterol at 135 !? Quite a coincidence.

And, he was still alive as late is 2013 - when he coauthored another book the subject.

As far as my week-long experiment, at age 60 I really noticed the difference the first day or two. I have been lifting weights and until yesterday, there was no soreness. My wife and I seem to have a lot more energy. That part seems to be true - whether the fat will turn into lean muscle remains to be seen

The dosage for me is 25 mg of Pregnenolone/25 mg of DHEA subliminally in the morning (Ditto my wife)

I am taking an additional 25 mg of each at noon (before the workout)

Then my wife is dabbing some pregnenolone creme at night, and I am dabbing both pregnenolone creme and DHEA creme at night.

OK, so you are looking for a transdermal effect. Is anyone on this forumknowledgeable about how well the cream gets through the epidermis, whichit must do to enter the blood stream in the dermis?

I am well aware of the transdermal effect for some substances. It is how I get my magnesium using magnesium chloride. For me it is the the onlyway of getting magnesium that works well.

Since the dermis is known to containe around 20 percent of an individualsblood supply it is a great way to get a beneficial substance into the blood.But the epidermis, which is about as thick as a piece of writing paper, doesan excellent job of keepng our blood from running out . . . and it sits on topof of our dermis.

The quote in the very first post in this topic is from an expert who discusses the issue of the various form. Probably worth repeating.

DR. SAHELIAN: I've been experimenting with different forms. Today, I'm on 20 mg of sublingual. I've tried the regular pills, the micronized, the sublingual, the cream. In fact, today some company up in Toronto called me to send me the spray form of pregnenolone. I like them all. They seem to have different effects in subtle ways.

And my thought is that with each form, we're getting a different set of steroid hormones circulating in our system. Let's say you ingest the oral. It goes to the liver, where much of it is changed from pregnenolone into 17-hydroxy pregnenolone and to DHEA and to progesterone, and the whole mix and whatever is poured into the blood stream goes into the central nervous system giving a different effect. With the micronized form, most of it goes into lymphatic system, and it gets to the bloodstream, mostly as pregnenolone or 17-hydroxy pregnenolone. And in the brain, well, it would have a little different effect. Sublingually, you get most of it as pregnenolone, quicker to the brain.

As to the cream? Who knows how much of it is getting in and how it's changing before it gets into the blood.

So basically, practically speaking, I'm telling people I don't know in the long term which one of these forms is going to be healthiest for us. If you're taking it for 5 or 10 years, it may be better to let the liver work with it a little bit. But for practical purposes I tell people, try at least two or three different forms and stick with the one that you prefer, the one that's giving you the best CNS effect or the best effect for your particular mental or medical condition. Or sometimes you can even combine two forms.