You're not making a lot of sense, Lotus. If people are more interested in HD DVD than Blu-ray, why have Blu-ray players been outselling HD DVD players?

It's nonsensical and delusional to think that the collective consumer wants to buy up HD DVD but won't because Blu-ray exists but they won't buy up Blu-ray because they simply don't want that format. It's ridiculous, and frankly stupid.

When you have the entire industry promoting one format, that format has more right and ability to succeed than the rebel underdog who only has one tactic - lowball prices.

Why would anyone lose interest in high-def media if there was one clear choice? I will use your language to say this idea is "absurd."

The fact that the Studios are coming together to support one format isn't confusing the customer and turning them off, ti was that they couldn't decide on one format in the beginning that has turned the customers off. The only consumers they're turning off are those that bought into HD DVD already, which is a small number - definitely smaller than Blu-ray. If they waited any longer they would have turned off more people, so they had to act now. They couldn't wait out another holiday season because then it would be twice the number, but with one format you will have much faster growth of Blu-ray sales, and those numbers were growing faster than HD DVD anyway.

Yea law suits, you sell 100,000 HD-DVD players at a fire sale & then they find out they can't buy any movies for them in a couple of months someone will try to sue them, and if you don't think that's true your living in a dream world.

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Originally Posted by Lotus

Toshiba just decided to fight. Why?

Because they see their investment circling the drain?

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Originally Posted by Lotus

The research group they hired basically said that if HD DVD does die from the war, then consumers ARE GOING TO LOSE INTEREST IN ADOPTING HDM!!!!

That sounds like they paid them to say what they wanted to hear because that's just wrong!
With no format war & HDTV's selling better all the time HDM sales will increase with no war.

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Originally Posted by Lotus

That's right lose interest. The WAR was between Studios and it really has hurt the market. Most consumers are extremely put off by it. WB was right in thinking that the war was hurting adaptation. What they didn't figure is that by choosing the BD side it would hurt growth too.

First off most consumers could care less about HDM Because there is a war going on once the war is over the majority of people will start to get interested.

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Originally Posted by Lotus

The problem appears to be that most people were going to invest into HD-DVD. So the fact that the CHEAPER solution lost because of STUDIOS has put a lot off.

Dude, most people weren't going to invest in anything until the war was over.

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Originally Posted by Lotus

If you ask me, if they grab a 3rd studio it's a GOOD thing. The lower priced players and lower priced software may well force BD to get a little more competitive.

You're not making a lot of sense, Lotus. If people are more interested in HD DVD than Blu-ray, why have Blu-ray players been outselling HD DVD players?

It's nonsensical and delusional to think that the collective consumer wants to buy up HD DVD but won't because Blu-ray exists but they won't buy up Blu-ray because they simply don't want that format. It's ridiculous, and frankly stupid.

When you have the entire industry promoting one format, that format has more right and ability to succeed than the rebel underdog who only has one tactic - lowball prices.

Why would anyone lose interest in high-def media if there was one clear choice? I will use your language to say this idea is "absurd."

The fact that the Studios are coming together to support one format isn't confusing the customer and turning them off, ti was that they couldn't decide on one format in the beginning that has turned the customers off. The only consumers they're turning off are those that bought into HD DVD already, which is a small number - definitely smaller than Blu-ray. If they waited any longer they would have turned off more people, so they had to act now. They couldn't wait out another holiday season because then it would be twice the number, but with one format you will have much faster growth of Blu-ray sales, and those numbers were growing faster than HD DVD anyway.

I really don't ask for much, just logical arguments.

I'm not the consumer that feels that way so call someone else stupid.

They polled people and yes, they're turned off by the war, but also that the MORE EXPENSIVE unit won.

The consumers don't care about one format or the other. They are put off by the war and yes put off by the expensive one "winning." So Toshiba has decided to fight it out.

Also Universal and Paramount are currently standing pat to see what develops in the upcoming weeks.

Obviously the research group didn't just poll HD-DVD owners that would be well stupid.

They polled people at malls and stores.

You forget that before the WB decision the MAJORITY of HDTV owners were planning on buying HD-DVD not BD. Because primarily they know the name DVD, and COST.

If you don't think consumers are about to get more ****ed with $150 units vs $400 units ...

There is no clear reason to choose BD besides STUDIO SUPPORT. Where as to the common consumer there are numerous reasons to choose HD-DVD and the leading one is COST the second being ALL PLAYERS PLAY ALL PARTS OF A DISC.

Consumers for the most part don't mind choices. They just don't want the Studios fighting it out for them.

Which if you really were close to your customers you would know that. Just about every person I know wishes that both had 100% studio support not for "one choice." In fact I don't know anyone besides fanatics for either side that feel that there should be "one choice." Most people have no problem with competition.

If Blu-ray won, why is Toshiba fighting? There's no fight to win, they're just trying to be a spoiler then right?

There are more reasons to get Blu-ray over studio support. The fact that there is over 80% of the CE industry supporting Blu-ray helps as well, compared to a handful for HD DVD. See, consumers do like choice, they want to decide between Panasonic, Sony, Philips, LG, etc instead of having to buy a Toshiba.

Anecdotal comments don't' really matter. I could say all my friends only want one format and none of them are fanatical and that doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong, so that's a little arrogant to think you have the pulse on the consumer and nobody else does. But the mother wants to buy a movie for her kid in college - what format does she pick? She has to call and find out which one he has first? People want one format, didn't Betamax/VHS tell anyone the consumer wants one? Haven't the polls and sales proven this.

Polls don't mean a lot either. You can phrase questions certain ways and get different results. Who was supposed to win New Hampshire again? Apparently Warner's polls showed differently than Toshiba's.

Toshiba is also ridiculously disillusioned to think they're the only company that knows what consumers want. They talk like they're the only company in the world that is doing what the consumers want. That's BS. They're trying to maintain DVD revenues which is why they forced HD DVD into the DVD Forum even though the majority of DVD Forum members thought the DVD Forum shouldn't cover a blue laser format. They refused to vote on it so Toshiba changed the rules to get it through.

The majority of HDTV owners think DVD is high-def. The polls might make people pick HD DVD thinking it's an unconverting DVD player (some DVD players even promote themselves as having an HD-quality picture with "HD" on their box). But most importantly, the majority of high-def owners who have bought into high-def have bought into Blu-ray. That's more important than these nameless polls you apparently have that nobody else has seen.

Yea law suits, you sell 100,000 HD-DVD players at a fire sale & then they find out they can't buy any movies for them in a couple of months someone will try to sue them, and if you don't think that's true your living in a dream world.

Sure. What would be their case? Right. What lawyer would take that up? Also in what world will there be no movies in a couple of months? It's 5 months for Warners and last I checked they weren't the only studio out there.

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Because they see their investment circling the drain?

Hmmmm... they were offered the Recordable Media Market. Sony flat out said they would stop all BD-R production and GIVE THEM the recordable media market. Samsung and others were convinced it was going to happen to the point they talked about it!

So they obviously have something else up their sleeves. I know you're a PS3 man and thus blue all through but perhaps they have a strategy?

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That sounds like they paid them to say what they wanted to hear because that's just wrong!

Well then if anyone is suing anyone it's the HD DVD PRG vs the research group they hired! It's obviously not wrong. It actually makes some sense. You see most people KNEW about the High Def formats and were mad that Studios weren't supporting both. Because it was labelled by the media as a WAR where one side may lose the majority refused to buy. However of those polled who were waiting the MAJORITY said if they were to buy it would be HD-DVD. It's likely the name and nothing more, but it was their answer. Then again maybe it was their answer because it was cheaper who knows.

What I do know is that most people I talk to don't like that Studios are trying to make their decision for them.

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With no format war & HDTV's selling better all the time HDM sales will increase with no war.

Sure. However lets be honest if there was no war and there was just a HD-DVD solution where both techs had been combined (think BD 2.0) then right now you'd likely have one with about 3M to 5M stand alone players sold. Because of the war you have less than half that combined. The war has left a bad taste in peoples mouths. If HD-DVD took the recordable media market and went home it will still take likely 6 months at least for the public to start buying like it never happened. However that research group found out otherwise. This could be because HD-DVD did well enough to get in enough homes that somebody knows somebody that got "screwed," by the war. That does leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.

Plus BD is still priced about $200 too high for mass consumer consumption.

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First off most consumers could care less about HDM Because there is a war going on once the war is over the majority of people will start to get interested.

No, they will win there is a clear choice for a safe investment PLUS the right cost. With 2.0 players having an undisclosed price point (because they figure they can ask for MORE if HD-DVD is dead) we have no idea how soon that will be.

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that is pure crap!
The only good thing is for the war to be over.

Not true at all. If HD-DVD announced they were going to take the recordable media offer and back out then the new players would all have $600+ price points for 2.0 units, and the others would get priced at $399 to $499.

However with HD-DVD announcing a $199 1080p unit then BD can't afford to have 2.0 units at $600+. They're going to have to price aggressively.

That is a good thing Moose. If HD-DVD grabs a 3rd Studio it prolongs the "war," long enough for likely both to survive. Then you don't have anyone getting screwed.

The real truth is that if any Studio flat out said "We promise to release to X format for the next 7 years no matter what," that format would see an increase in sales.

I have said all along, that this war is not good. But, no one agreed with me, and said I should just ante up, and buy a player. As far as where we are now, the fact that people who bought Toshiba players, now have to go out and by another player is crazy. And, more expensive, bad again. I keep saying, most people want to watch a movie, see a great picture, get great sound, and that is it.

Now, theyhave all this to deal with. Will HD growth be affected, I don`t really know. But, maybe slowed a little. I know what though, if tv content was really good, people would hesitate buying players, and just watch on satelitte and cable, order movies on demand, and record them to their HD DVRs. But, no one wins here at all. Its a big mess, and rather than continuing to argue about these two formats that should have never been, what damage will be done now to the marketplace, when the word finally gets out to the masses?????