I don't know how I feel about this episode. It was, for lack of a better word....melodramatic. I realize that the writers are trying to portray a frantic pace to this episode- it has to be frantic- the Big D himself is walking the planet, but it felt like everything was forced and overly dramatized. Season 4 ended on the same type of tone- too much to do, not enough time to do it I suppose. Here's hoping that the rest of the season doesn't follow suit.

A good start.And put me down as someone who laughed his ass off at the number one fan.I know Galaxy Quest did it too, and I used to think they had very little respect for the fan community writing such lines as "I knew it was real!!"

But then I came across people online like Media Messiah, and I realise now that some fans are really way off the reservation that the rest of us know as reality.

Is this the last season of Supernatural? Talking to my boss at work, she was convinced this was so. Did they already make an announcement or something? The demo numbers weren't as strong as last year's premiere and looked worse compared to the fucking god-awful Vamp Diaries, but I'd hate to see it go since I only started watching last year.

Speaking of VD, that was baaad fanfic. I thought Twilight was angsty fanfic but that was just....google "worst fan fic ever" and see the one that comes up. It is comparable.

I'm not ragging on fanfic entirely. It's been around a long time - hetro, homo, creature slash, what have you - and I've known of a few who have gotten book deals coming up with their own characters. (Jane Epenson started writing out fanfic.True) I think of it as batting practice in special cases. The majority of fanfic is girl pron - mental & emotional imagary instead of actual imagary. yaoi/yuri have been pouring out of the East for decades but I blame the most recent surge in HoYay! in Harry Potter. You can't have lines like Malfoy saying to Harry, "I'll have you , Potter" and not have pre-pube girls go there. It's about suggestion; not an act.

@V - You had to bring up MM, didn't ya? Seriously man, all it takes is for some fucking Razorback to tell him he has some "good points" and all the work you've done has gone down the tubes. I wept when I saw that. Because it just validates the things he says and that includes you & I working for Mutant Enemy. ( Not that his points are "bad" per se but they were applicable to early episodes. They don't hold water anymore). At least he is laying of the ademends & the question marks lately. Some things are getting through. I have hope. He's still kinda creepy with the lewdness though.

(WTF? I typed Hair-ry but the name way & it came out as Harry? Is that a Zone thing?? That's AWESOME!!)

It's a zone thing. Would you believe that the admins thought that the only way anyone would mention that five letter word was in a reference to Mr. Knowles? Any use of his name gets subbed with the "Big Red" translation.

V'Shael wrote:It's a zone thing. Would you believe that the admins thought that the only way anyone would mention that five letter word was in a reference to Mr. Knowles? Any use of his name gets subbed with the "Big Red" translation.

It's true for various other (mostly slang/insulting) words as well.

H@rry did the word filter on his name by himself.

This season is set to be the last one, the showrunner says after this season the story he thought of is over and he will move on.I think the TV channel will try to hold them, but if Kripke leaves, it sure will be over. At least quality wise.

I once wrote the word "d e l e t e d", referring to scenes cut from a show but being included on a DVD, and the word was replaced by "gaffneyed". Tried to correct it a few times then gave up, but adding a P.S. to my comments asking for someone to explain, which they nicely did. I guess someone, somewhere, thinks it's funny. Me, I just find it annoying. Possibly one reason why The Zone never really took off (or why people stay away). Replacing one word can, like with Buffy's Potter comments, turn a rather straight-forward sentence into somewhat incomprehensible gibberish. Sure, I get it now, but when I first read it I just figured it was referring to some sort of Mexican Anime I was wholly unfamiliar with.

Big Jim wrote:I once wrote the word "d e l e t e d", referring to scenes cut from a show but being included on a DVD, and the word was replaced by "gaffneyed". Tried to correct it a few times then gave up, but adding a P.S. to my comments asking for someone to explain, which they nicely did. I guess someone, somewhere, thinks it's funny. Me, I just find it annoying. Possibly one reason why The Zone never really took off (or why people stay away).

Other that the fact that this place is full of gentlemen!

(Click 'quote' on my post, Big Jim, then read what word I REALLY wrote that got filtered into the word gentlemen!!)

V'Shael wrote:It's a zone thing. Would you believe that the admins thought that the only way anyone would mention that five letter word was in a reference to Mr. Knowles? Any use of his name gets subbed with the "Big Red" translation.

It's true for various other (mostly slang/insulting) words as well.

H@rry did the word filter on his name by himself.

This season is set to be the last one, the showrunner says after this season the story he thought of is over and he will move on.I think the TV channel will try to hold them, but if Kripke leaves, it sure will be over. At least quality wise.

Actually, there has been some talk from Kripke about doing one more season, but that would the final one.

V'Shael wrote:A good start.And put me down as someone who laughed his ass off at the number one fan.I know Galaxy Quest did it too, and I used to think they had very little respect for the fan community writing such lines as "I knew it was real!!"

But then I came across people online like Media Messiah, and I realise now that some fans are really way off the reservation that the rest of us know as reality.

"Can you stop touching me?""No."

Hilarious!

I absolutley loved that line and really dug the whole fanfic-bashing. Good ep, overall.

Kripke, Padalecki, and Ackles have all said that this was the last season (unless the CW backed up a trukoad of money to their trailers). Kripke said he had idea on how to continue the show, but he wasn't interested in doing it anymore as the story he set out to tell will be over this season.

Recently, I believe they have all said that they might stick around for more and are not especially keen on leaving the show. I love the show, and it's one of the best shows on TV now, and it's certainly the highest quality show that the CW has had in a long time, but it's not exactly a ratings powerhouse, so I wonder how much money the CW can afford to throw at it to keep the talent in place.

I am enjoying this season tremendously thus far. I don't have a lot of specific comments at the moment, but I've been so delighted overall with the turns and twists that I'm just glad the show is back.

DarfurOnTheRocks wrote:I really hope that the actors and producers DO NOT change their minds and extend the show after this season. Supernatural has oozed quality since the first episode. I do not want that to change.

That said, I am all for the two iterations of Ruby, that blind psychic girl, and the other nice ladies to have a spin off where they enjoy escapades wearing skimpy outfits.....

laivine wrote:I am enjoying this season tremendously thus far. I don't have a lot of specific comments at the moment, but I've been so delighted overall with the turns and twists that I'm just glad the show is back.

I feel rather sorry for everyone who stigmatizes this show for its network, its actors, the fact that it came into existence after other shows with similar subject matter and therefore = lame.

It has to be one of the most quotable, funny, heart-wrenching, snarky, emotionally-charged freaking blasts of a television show that I've ever seen. Nobody has the answers, everybody is flailing around in the dark, and it feels true and good and dangerous in a way I've come to see as the show's trademark. Even beyond the soundtrack, the car, the clever quips. There's dogs in this fight on all sides.

So Sam versus Dean, Lucifer versus Michael. Their whole lives are a damn allegory playing out in flesh. And yet, their humanity makes me think there is a God with a hand in all this, a humanity that makes them the right vessels. We'll have to see. I am excited as all hell to see what's next. And not just because it involves Castiel conducting orgies in a post-apocalyptic haze of weed and AK-47s.

I mean, this episode alone we had Castiel making Chastity scream in a whorehouse, Sam caressing the face of Lucifer, Dean hunting like it's his job, Bobby doing enough in 15 seconds of sitting to make us worried for the rest of the week, and everyone being a smartass. Oh, and Raphael making everybody wet. I loved it! I'd like to talk about the weirdness of what the hunting guys were doing to Sam was all about because that didn't track well for me. And Castiel's fall is complicated in ways I think are both great and well...complicated in terms of the composition of the characters and deflating the mythos of "angels" much in the way they ended up kicking the shit out of the terror of demons. And Dean, is he happy or pretending to be happy? And why are they giving money to keeping the Beautiful Life on the air when we can't have one decent fire effect? What's that about?

Sigh. Okay, squeeing, obnoxious, they are catering to my demographic with cheap, plastic entertainment, only watching for the man-meat fangirl out.

laivine wrote:I'd like to talk about the weirdness of what the hunting guys were doing to Sam was all about because that didn't track well for me.

They were upset with Sam because they felt he could have given them more of a heads-up on what they were walking into. They lost their friend. They blamed Sam for that and wanted Sam to drink the blood so he could take out the demons that had killed their friend.

laivine wrote:I'd like to talk about the weirdness of what the hunting guys were doing to Sam was all about because that didn't track well for me.

They were upset with Sam because they felt he could have given them more of a heads-up on what they were walking into. They lost their friend. They blamed Sam for that and wanted Sam to drink the blood so he could take out the demons that had killed their friend.

While I don't mean to speak for the lovely(and recently single) Laivine(well, your namesake, anyway), I think she had a problem with fellow hunters treating Sam that way, no matter what the circumstances. Especially considering the Winchesters are basically hunter royalty. It didn't quite work for me, either, but the episode overall was great.

I love the parallel being drawn between Dean's daddy issues and now Castiel's "Daddy" issues. Hope they do more with that.

I also loved hearing Simple Man, my favorite LS song. It's funny, but I've got every single song ever played in this series on my ipod.

VegasRon wrote:... I think she had a problem with fellow hunters treating Sam that way, no matter what the circumstances. Especially considering the Winchesters are basically hunter royalty. It didn't quite work for me, either, but the episode overall was great.

We have seen it before - hunters who didn't like Sam because of his connection with Yellow Eyes. Plus, they just found out that Sam started the Apocalypse, which led to their friend's recent death, because he was palling around with a demon, and was using demon blood to give himself an edge.

VegasRon wrote:I love the parallel being drawn between Dean's daddy issues and now Castiel's "Daddy" issues.

While I don't mean to speak for the lovely(and recently single) Laivine(well, your namesake, anyway), I think she had a problem with fellow hunters treating Sam that way, no matter what the circumstances. Especially considering the Winchesters are basically hunter royalty. It didn't quite work for me, either, but the episode overall was great.

Well, not quite. I think it was logical for Sam to be treated poorly in the situation. The hunters had to think he put them into a hideous trap, I'm just wondering why forcing Sam to "hulk out" with the demon blood was any kind of plan at all. How could they know enough from what a tortured demon told them to know that he used the powers to kill and not exorcise demons and not say, become essentially, a hulk-like creature not knowing friend from enemy and just killing them where they stood? Seems to me that they were blindly using a flame thrower to light a few birthday candles. I can go with it because they were deeply traumatized by the death of their friend, but hunters at large are a couple miles behind the Winchesters on how this whole seal-breaking thing went down. Ah well, I was happy to see he spat it out. Or most of it? I hope that Sam getting back behind the wheel of his own life is something we'll get the chance to see again soon. To me, Sam's independence is not unlike Lucifer. He was thrown from a paradise he found wanting, leaving behind a brother and father who could no longer understand him. And Dean, at least at first, was Heaven's and John's grand enforcer - free of questions, only faith in his father, even when that father wordlessly disappeared with burden after burden left behind.

This episode was all about parallels, to me. Nickifer's outfit is so like John's the night Mary burned. Castiel turning up like Ruby, urgent with a cant-fail plan only Dean can help with. Sam seeking forgiveness and Lindsay finding a parallel search in her own addiction (a bit anvilicious, but hey, at least they didn't sleep together on screen like the cut-scene indicated), Raphael being a lost son, thrown to the winds when his father disappeared, just like Sam and Dean, just like Castiel and all the other angels, just like the demons who worship Lucifer and call him father. Just like Lucifer. Just like the prostitute. Each with this strange untempered rage. Each looking for a confrontation that will satisfy them. It's very Campbellian and Kripkeian and sort of fitting. Cas and Dean acknowledge their similar paths. Lucifer, I'm sure, will be all about playing on Sam. Hopefully, he'll notice when the Devil's preying on his insecurities after Ruby's year-long lesson. Bobby being paralyzed both physically and mentally when his surrogate sons need him, just like John who could never find a way to just be human with his boys. Jessifer in a white nightgown, just like Sara, Nick's wife, and of course like Mary and Jess (original recipe and extra crispy). Dean playing the older brother role with Castiel - showing him the ropes, straightening his tie, trying to get him laid, though Castiel was into the idea of that way more than the practice - but I think he gets over it if 5x04 is to be believed. There was a lot to the episode. A lot. I'm still having fun thinking about it. And not just Misha's HOLYSHITBREASTS face.

I really like the direction that they are going in showing that Dean, with his fractured relationships, is perhaps the best person to address some of the issues that are confronting the angels and humans alike.

On the angel side, you have dispair over god that is MIA. It is a need justaposition because it is traditionally humans that are required to have faith in an unseen power. Now we see cracks in the faith of the angels. We also see Raphael's downright petutant behaviour which is commented upon by Dean.

On the human side, we see the ugly side of hunters who are all too willing to throw their friend's son under the bus in order to get what they want. That rationale sounded a lot like Sam, and proves that the younger brother was not alone in his "ends justify the means" philosophy.

I am looking forward to how the brother's reconcile..... I hope that it does not happen in the final episode....

I really like the direction that they are going in showing that Dean, with his fractured relationships, is perhaps the best person to address some of the issues that are confronting the angels and humans alike.

On the angel side, you have dispair over god that is MIA. It is a need justaposition because it is traditionally humans that are required to have faith in an unseen power. Now we see cracks in the faith of the angels. We also see Raphael's downright petutant behaviour which is commented upon by Dean.

On the human side, we see the ugly side of hunters who are all too willing to throw their friend's son under the bus in order to get what they want. That rationale sounded a lot like Sam, and proves that the younger brother was not alone in his "ends justify the means" philosophy.

I am looking forward to how the brother's reconcile..... I hope that it does not happen in the final episode....

BTW: Lucifer's calm demeanour is uttly scary.

Seems to be borrowing a bit from The Prophecy and PreacherWill upcoming episodes unveil the Saint of Killers?Will God have a cameo where he says *pass me the lube*

Things do look rather bleak, but the writers still manage to fold in some laughs in. Cas as a free-spirit is totally out of character and allows the actor to show his range. The idea that future events change an individuals lost-standing convictions is interesting explored. Future Dean's ruthlessness and reverting back to torture methods employed in hell introduces more moral ambiguity to the situation. By the end of the future trip Dean further rejects the binary opposition of he Angels and Demons and sets out on a third option.

However, more importantly he learns a lesson that Lucifer never did and embraces the idea of familial love that is purely unconditional. So at the end of it all, he can love Sam despite his flaws. This is an important step perhaps for Dean because he is filled with such self-loathing, partially due to his time in Hell. Dean needs to start loving himself despite the sins that he has committed.

What to show someone if they say Supernatural is for pussies. Spoilers, of a sort, if split second clips from throughout the 5 seasons is spoilery to you. It's an excellent look at how terrifying and bloody and begs the question how the hell is this show even on during primetime, much less on TV at all?

I'm really digging this season. Don't really have a specific comment since there's really so much to think back over, but there have been many unexpected, powerful moments...most recently, Michael taking over John's body, Dean looking up in agony for an absent god, Sammy on teh crack again and his villainry as delicious and terrifying as it was in Born Under a Bad Sign. It's been sort of the trials of Job and I hope somehow Team Free Will gets their ducks in a row here quick.

Spoilers out there seem to indicate more wonderfulness is on the horizon. Castiel gets to fight with an angel killin' blade? Also, I don't really think this will be the last season. I think Dawn Ostroff, for as little as she gets how to promote the show, gets that she doesn't have anything that works as seamlessly as it does for the ratings it gets.

It was just renewed for another season, so I guess Kripke, Ackles, and Padalecki got their truckfuls of cash. I know that last year, when Kripke was talking about leaving the show at the end of this season, he said he had ideas about how it could continue, but at the close of season 5, he'd have finished the story he wanted to tell.

I've heard someone say that every episode has had something extraordinary about it this season and I agree completely. They haven't been perfect, but they've been ambitious, bold, and cutthroat. They've made big statements, but still held on to the little clevernesses that endear the show to me.

This most recent episode's extrordinariness might have been the fact that hope of humanity's survival rests on Sam and Dean Winchester and...Chicago deep dish pizza.

I'm really emotional over this episode. I don't even know what to say, really. I thought it was spectacular and fitting and, yes, the perfect ending. But at the same time, if it ended here, I don't know if I could bear that. I've watched since season one, episode 4 and the mortality of everything, the show included....it felt very Return of the King to me. Epic and intimate and rousing and sorrowful and probably the best finale they've ever done. I just don't think of Dean Winchester as hie-ing off to the Grey Havens. I don't want to think of it.

Kripke's always said that if there is a philosophy behind this show that comes from him, a message, it's one of humanism. I think that shone through. All the way down to Assbutt! Sam's redemption felt deep and real and the abiding love between them as worthy of saving the world.

Doesn't mean I don't have questions and frustrations, though, but wow. Just. Wow.

Bison: [to his architect] The temple above us was the wonder of the ancient world. Bisonopolis shall be the wonder of my world. But I think the food court should be larger. All the big franchises will want in.

Been staying away from message boards and such until the series ended, wanting to stay spoiler free.

I'd say great ending to a great series, but apparently it's got a sixth season? Not sure how I feel about this. The only way I could ever see this show ending was exactly how it did- Sam dead(or in an infernal hole),Castiel getting a promotion, Bobby out hunting again, and Dean giving up "the life". I remember when I saw the episode with Lisa and thinking, yanno, when this thing is over it'd be awesome if Dean were to settle down with her.

I took Sam's reappearance as God lifting him out of his hole and giving him some sort of powers, maybe even angelhood? And Sammy watching over Dean one last time before doing whatever the divine do when not fighting the Apocalypse. Anyone have any theories on that coda or has there been any official word about that ending?

Anyways I reaally reaaaally hope s6 will be "preacher"-like. We got that antichrist baby- genesis in Preacher series thats in AUSTRALIA (how awesome is that??).So, Dean and Kiddoe can go hunt God. or Sam. Or everyone

Anyways I reaally reaaaally hope s6 will be "preacher"-like. We got that antichrist baby- genesis in Preacher series thats in AUSTRALIA (how awesome is that??).So, Dean and Kiddoe can go hunt God. or Sam. Or everyone

Yeah, not angelhood exactly, but some sort of minor powers. After all, that streetlight didn't blow cuz it's time was up. If he's benevolent or malevolent is yet to be seen, I couldn't really read his expression(which I'm sure was purposely vague), but I'm pretty damn sure he was "checking in" on Dean as opposed to plotting.

Also, was the prophet character(name escapes me) actually God? or did he just get "elevated" post-Apocalypse? I'd pay good cash to watch a simulcast podcast or commentary on the DVD for this episode, as I do have some questions I'd like to have answered for clarity(for example, when Sam saw the army man in the ashtray and it brought back those flood of memories, did it rock Satan, too? Realizing that Sam had an anchor in Dean that Satan was missing[it was pretty clear that Satan loved his brother] causing his hold on Sam to slip, or even voluntarily give up control?)

In any event, while I'm glad the show got another season, I really kind of wish this last episode was the finale, though I'd have liked to see Dean a little happier.

Enjoyed the finale... but really hope that the next season doesn't taste like the seasons that followed Buffy's demise at the end of Five. I thought that finish was perfect and the eps that followed weren't nearly as good as what had come before - a definite "tacked on" feel. Hoping for a better fate for the Winchester Bros.

Whomever runs the Coaxial portion of AICN certainly doesn't give a darn about Supernatural. Nor do they show any interest in Smallville.

Supernatural is a superb series. Sure, there have been ups and downs like in all series, but the overall quality of the show has been pretty consistent.

Meanwhile, a show like Fringe gets rabid support from the powers-that-be at AICN. I'm not saying that Fringe isn't deserving of some support - it's an okay show - but, c'mon, Supernatural is in its 6th season and it can't seem to catch a break from AICN.

Yeah, it's been a weird sticking point with Herc from what I gather. I've only watched a couple episodes myself, but I know it's pretty popular with the Coaxial fans and each time it gets brought up in TalkBacks the response is always "Go talk about it in the Zone." Which is cool, we certainly welcome the influx of visitors, but I don't get why he refuses to run any Supernatural articles. Maybe he just really, really dislikes the show or something.

Ribbons wrote:Yeah, it's been a weird sticking point with Herc from what I gather. I've only watched a couple episodes myself, but I know it's pretty popular with the Coaxial fans and each time it gets brought up in TalkBacks the response is always "Go talk about it in the Zone." Which is cool, we certainly welcome the influx of visitors, but I don't get why he refuses to run any Supernatural articles. Maybe he just really, really dislikes the show or something.

That's something I don't understand. I thought that movie and tv critics/reviewers make an effort to review things that they don't like as well as all of the stuff they do like. I could somewhat understand it if a show garnered little or no interest from AICN fans, but Supernatural clearly has a decent sized and devoted following on this website.

Maybe I don't understand how the AICN reviewers do their jobs. Maybe it's normal for them to only do reviews for what they like and are interested in and everyone else who might have different tastes in t.v. and movies are left to go pound sand. That doesn't seem like very professional behavior and I hope I'm wrong about it.

In any event, I'm disappointed that a show with the consistent quality of Supernatural is kicked to the side of the road and ignored by the reviewers at AICN.

there are many words one might use to describe the AICN reviewers. "professional" is not one of them.

if you want to know whether a tv series will or won't be covered by Herc on AICN, you have only to ask one simple question: "does it involve, in one fashion or another, j.j. abrams, joss whedon, tina fey, or teenage girls?"