UFC + PRIDE = CONCLUSION

I think there are a lot of good points in this forum. About who deserves to fight who. About who deserves a title shot. About the ufc being all business. IMO the ranking systems are messed up anyway. Does Serra deserve to be that high on the list? Hell No!! But he's the champ, so it looks good. Nick Diaz beat Gomi. That's all there is to it. But, Gomi is still ranked #1. I don't believe Gomi will bring shit to the octagon, if he signs. I also think Pride fighters are having a tough time, and will continue to have a tough time in the octagon. rules are different. Pace, Intensity, Level of talent, they are all different in the UFC, than in Pride. CroCop is a good example. It's not bad luck. He's just not a well-rounded fighter. You can get by in Pride like that, but not in the UfC. You need to be well-rounded. If Shogun, being ranked #1, doesn't dominate, the unranked Griffin, I believe that will prove my point. Then there's, Rampage doing good, so far. All this said, I think the talent level in Pride is lacking, in comparison to, the talent level in the UFC. The merge should continue to create one organisation with the best fighters. Continue the unification bouts. Then we'll see who's the best.

SpiderSilva

9/22/07 11:15:37AM

it must be the CAGE

zephead

9/22/07 12:34:51PM

I think it's Bruce Buffer and a little bit of Rogan

MALICE

9/22/07 12:46:17PM

No It's Ali and Arianny. I mean how are you supposed to fight when you've got hot chicks walking around you each round.

iwannabesedated

9/22/07 1:28:17PM

It's got to be Buffer..I mean Pride gotta be so used to that japanese guy with the funny hair and glasses and Cro Cop had lost his last 2 because he changed his walk-in music from the PRIDE song to Duran Duran...Cro Cop with Pride song in the UFC 1-0 Cro Cop and Duran Duran 0-2...

cmill21

9/22/07 1:47:29PM

Posted by 40ouncetofreedom

It's got to be Buffer..I mean Pride gotta be so used to that japanese guy with the funny hair and glasses and Cro Cop had lost his last 2 because he changed his walk-in music from the PRIDE song to Duran Duran...Cro Cop with Pride song in the UFC 1-0 Cro Cop and Duran Duran 0-2...

He used wild boys all through pride. It's not that he's not well rounded, it's more that he's not fighting with heart and passion. No one could take him down in pride, look at the nog fight first round. I really wish people would watch his fights before saying he's doing poorly in the UFC. Yeah he is, but no he's not even fighting with half the passion of his pride fights. Sorry my rant for the day. Oh and guess what OP, there are two former pride fighters holding belts in the UFC. So pretty much one pride fighters done bad, he doesn't look like he's fighting for anything other then a pay check and people are saying all pride fighters have struggled....nice

MALICE

9/22/07 2:32:39PM

I'm not picking on only CroCop. He is a great fighter. I thought he would dominate his fights. I was on the edge of my seat screaming head kick. I'm just saying he's obviously off his game. Be it loss of passion, failure to adapt styles, walk-in music, buffer, or whatever the case may be. I'm bad with explaining what I mean, so I try to put it the best I can. Everyone always argues over who is the best. And they always will. I'm just saying if the merge continues, and the belts are unified. It will simplify many things.

zephead

9/22/07 3:08:38PM

Posted by cmill21

Posted by 40ouncetofreedom

It's got to be Buffer..I mean Pride gotta be so used to that japanese guy with the funny hair and glasses and Cro Cop had lost his last 2 because he changed his walk-in music from the PRIDE song to Duran Duran...Cro Cop with Pride song in the UFC 1-0 Cro Cop and Duran Duran 0-2...

He used wild boys all through pride. It's not that he's not well rounded, it's more that he's not fighting with heart and passion. No one could take him down in pride, look at the nog fight first round. I really wish people would watch his fights before saying he's doing poorly in the UFC. Yeah he is, but no he's not even fighting with half the passion of his pride fights. Sorry my rant for the day. Oh and guess what OP, there are two former pride fighters holding belts in the UFC. So pretty much one pride fighters done bad, he doesn't look like he's fighting for anything other then a pay check and people are saying all pride fighters have struggled....nice

I'll give you Jackson as a Pride fighter, but not Silva. Anderson fought 5 times in Pride. Hell, Liddell had 3 fights in Pride, does that make him a Pride fighter? As for Cro Cop, he is a standup fighter, who is used to the ring. Pride and K-1 both fought in a ring. In Pride, you could use the ropes to your advantage and get a restart. In the cage, you get put up against and if your opponet is working, you're gonna stay there, (See Couture/GG)

Mirko got away with alot of kicks in Pride, but fought in the UFC and got his kicked caught, was taken down, got a bunch of elbows for his trouble, was given a reprieve and got KO'ed. It's a different game for him now. I think after the GG fight, he was real tentitive, worrying about his kick getting cought again and taken down.

If he doesn't have the passion for fighting, get out. The UFC should cut his contract and send him on. There is no room for someone at this level that doesn't want to be there.

iwannabesedated

9/22/07 3:14:15PM

Posted by cmill21

Posted by 40ouncetofreedom

It's got to be Buffer..I mean Pride gotta be so used to that japanese guy with the funny hair and glasses and Cro Cop had lost his last 2 because he changed his walk-in music from the PRIDE song to Duran Duran...Cro Cop with Pride song in the UFC 1-0 Cro Cop and Duran Duran 0-2...

He used wild boys all through pride. It's not that he's not well rounded, it's more that he's not fighting with heart and passion. No one could take him down in pride, look at the nog fight first round. I really wish people would watch his fights before saying he's doing poorly in the UFC. Yeah he is, but no he's not even fighting with half the passion of his pride fights. Sorry my rant for the day. Oh and guess what OP, there are two former pride fighters holding belts in the UFC. So pretty much one pride fighters done bad, he doesn't look like he's fighting for anything other then a pay check and people are saying all pride fighters have struggled....nice

If your not fighting with Heart and Passion then you shouldnt fight.Yes two former pride guys are holding belts..but on the other hand Herring,Werdum,Aurelio all lost their Debuts.Big Nog didnt look great in his Debut.I do think switching over is a challenge for the pride guys and you gotta bring your A game or else your gonna lose.I like Mirko alot has had alot of awesome Ko's and great fights but i think hes done.Left Cross Left Kick is his only game as Sokodjou said.

Mastodon2

9/22/07 3:16:47PM

Posted by xxMALICExx

I think there are a lot of good points in this forum. About who deserves to fight who. About who deserves a title shot. About the ufc being all business. IMO the ranking systems are messed up anyway. Does Serra deserve to be that high on the list? Hell No!! But he's the champ, so it looks good. Nick Diaz beat Gomi. That's all there is to it. But, Gomi is still ranked #1. I don't believe Gomi will bring shit to the octagon, if he signs. I also think Pride fighters are having a tough time, and will continue to have a tough time in the octagon. rules are different. Pace, Intensity, Level of talent, they are all different in the UFC, than in Pride. CroCop is a good example. It's not bad luck. He's just not a well-rounded fighter. You can get by in Pride like that, but not in the UfC. You need to be well-rounded. If Shogun, being ranked #1, doesn't dominate, the unranked Griffin, I believe that will prove my point. Then there's, Rampage doing good, so far. All this said, I think the talent level in Pride is lacking, in comparison to, the talent level in the UFC. The merge should continue to create one organisation with the best fighters. Continue the unification bouts. Then we'll see who's the best.

And I thought we had got over the UFC fanboyism...

Don't expect to see Gomi in UFC either, he said, for now at least, he wants to stay in Japan to fight, since coming to America last time threw him off and he ended up getting subbed by a drugged up Diaz, and also stated that he currently has no plans to fight in UFC.

As for seeing who is "the best" its totally moot, since we are only seeing Pride fighters in UFC, in America, under UFC rules. We can always have our own opinions, but there will never be a certifiable answer to this question since we will never see UFC fighters extensively tested in the Pride environment. Apart from when UFC put forward Chuck Liddell and Vitor Belfort in Pride tournaments and they both got demolished, we have not, and will not ever see UFC fighters being scrutinised under the Pride scenario.

cmill21

9/22/07 3:20:06PM

Posted by zephead

Posted by cmill21

Posted by 40ouncetofreedom

It's got to be Buffer..I mean Pride gotta be so used to that japanese guy with the funny hair and glasses and Cro Cop had lost his last 2 because he changed his walk-in music from the PRIDE song to Duran Duran...Cro Cop with Pride song in the UFC 1-0 Cro Cop and Duran Duran 0-2...

He used wild boys all through pride. It's not that he's not well rounded, it's more that he's not fighting with heart and passion. No one could take him down in pride, look at the nog fight first round. I really wish people would watch his fights before saying he's doing poorly in the UFC. Yeah he is, but no he's not even fighting with half the passion of his pride fights. Sorry my rant for the day. Oh and guess what OP, there are two former pride fighters holding belts in the UFC. So pretty much one pride fighters done bad, he doesn't look like he's fighting for anything other then a pay check and people are saying all pride fighters have struggled....nice

I'll give you Jackson as a Pride fighter, but not Silva. Anderson fought 5 times in Pride. Hell, Liddell had 3 fights in Pride, does that make him a Pride fighter? As for Cro Cop, he is a standup fighter, who is used to the ring. Pride and K-1 both fought in a ring. In Pride, you could use the ropes to your advantage and get a restart. In the cage, you get put up against and if your opponet is working, you're gonna stay there, (See Couture/GG)

Mirko got away with alot of kicks in Pride, but fought in the UFC and got his kicked caught, was taken down, got a bunch of elbows for his trouble, was given a reprieve and got KO'ed. It's a different game for him now. I think after the GG fight, he was real tentitive, worrying about his kick getting cought again and taken down.

If he doesn't have the passion for fighting, get out. The UFC should cut his contract and send him on. There is no room for someone at this level that doesn't want to be there.

Anderson was 3-2 in pride and is now 4-0 in the UFC, catch my drift? Yeah thats right the ring did help Mirko, the cage favours grapplers, so people saying ahh fedor will not be as good makes no sense because he'll more then likely be better. I don't really care what org was better, I see the one guy from pride do bad in the UFC, and everyone's saying they're all doing bad, makes no sense to me considering there are two guys who made their name in pride(better?) who are UFC champions.

MALICE

9/22/07 6:15:40PM

Completely understand what all of you are saying. I was wrong to say Pride Fighters are doing bad. ring fighters are ring fighters. cage fighters are cage fighters. good point. you cant compare the two. but, now UFC owns PRIDE. check the pride website for the next events. No PRIDE events. Only UFC events. PRIDE is done. As for former Pride fighters being UFC champs. All fighters start off in smaller venues, work their way up,and end up at the top(UFC or PRIDE). Now the UFC is alone at the top. The UFC is the ELITE organisation in the mma world. Nobody can deny that. Dosent matter if you are a cage fighter, or a ring fighter. With PRIDE gone, you will need to learn to fight in a cage if you want to fight the best fighters. I just want to see the best fighters fighting the best fighters. And that is only going to happen in the UFC.

Rush

9/22/07 7:59:14PM

Posted by cmill21

Anderson was 3-2 in pride and is now 4-0 in the UFC, catch my drift? Yeah thats right the ring did help Mirko, the cage favours grapplers, so people saying ahh fedor will not be as good makes no sense because he'll more then likely be better. I don't really care what org was better, I see the one guy from pride do bad in the UFC, and everyone's saying they're all doing bad, makes no sense to me considering there are two guys who made their name in pride(better?) who are UFC champions.

I agree. I am tired of hearing this "Pride guys are getting their asses kicked in the UFC" myself

Here is a breakdown of Pride fighters in the octagon with their (post Pride)UFC records. I put Anderson in there since he had fought in Pride the most prior coming to the UFC. I also left out Wanderlei since his UFC days were prior to the majority of his Pride career.

Heath Herring 1-2 (one loss was to a former Pride fighter)Big Nog 1-0 (win to former Pride fighter)Anderson Silva 4-0Cro Cop 1-2Henderson 0-1 (loss to former Pride fighter)Rampage 3-0Aurello 0-1 (had lost last two matches in Pride before coming to UFC)Werdum 0-1Mishima 0-1 (though arguably not really a Pride fighter)

So not counting the wins/losses for Pride vs Pride fights the collective record is:

8-6

This is hardly a record to say that Pride fighters have or have been dominated. Please mention if I have forgotten any fighters.

Pitbull09

9/23/07 12:24:04AM

Mriko isnt a good example of Pride fighters, he's aging and went to UFC to fight lower competition to see they were on par with Prides. He simply to old and will retire soon. Your going to see Pride fighters be jsut as good as UFC once they get use to some of the changes like the cage. Shogun will be huge in his division as well as Fedor and Henderson if he moves to Middleweight

nubby

9/23/07 1:01:33AM

Posted by Pitbull09

Mriko isnt a good example of Pride fighters, he's aging and went to UFC to fight lower competition to see they were on par with Prides. He simply to old and will retire soon. Your going to see Pride fighters be jsut as good as UFC once they get use to some of the changes like the cage. Shogun will be huge in his division as well as Fedor and Henderson if he moves to Middleweight

Always an excuse.

MALICE

9/23/07 1:42:51AM

Everybody saw it. NEED I SAY MORE. Rua is one of PRIDE's top fighters. If not the top fighter. He gassed in the second. Most top fighters in any organisation don't gas. Not halfway through the second. Getting tired has nothing to do with the cage. In other areas I understand, they need to get used to being in the cage and the rules. But TOP FIGHTERS DONT GAS. Will he adapt and put together a win streak? We'll see. Until then, say what you will. IMO Most PRIDE fighters are overrated. I said most!!

Gladiator

9/23/07 1:50:41AM

Posted by Pitbull09

Mriko isnt a good example of Pride fighters, he's aging and went to UFC to fight lower competition to see they were on par with Prides. He simply to old and will retire soon. Your going to see Pride fighters be jsut as good as UFC once they get use to some of the changes like the cage. Shogun will be huge in his division as well as Fedor and Henderson if he moves to Middleweight

so then i guess liddell isnt a good example of a ufc fighter being beat by a pride fighter because he is aging right? couture shouldnt count either then because he is aging as well? when did cro cop ever say he came to the ufc because he thought it was lower competition, the reason he came was for a fatter paycheck and if he did think the competition was lower then he was obviously mistaken. ive tried to be neutral in the whole Pride vs UFC thing but pride nuthuggers are turning out to be worse than TUFers! cro cop may have been great in his prime but to say that his losses dont count because he doesnt have passion anymore is stupid. and after that embarassing performance by shogun i dont see why anyone would even bother defending pride fighters in the ufc, if they are superior fighters then they better show some sign of it because the only thing worse than their debuts is the arguments people make that they would be winning if [insert lame excuse here].

MALICE

9/23/07 2:22:55AM

Posted by Gladiator

Posted by Pitbull09

Mriko isnt a good example of Pride fighters, he's aging and went to UFC to fight lower competition to see they were on par with Prides. He simply to old and will retire soon. Your going to see Pride fighters be jsut as good as UFC once they get use to some of the changes like the cage. Shogun will be huge in his division as well as Fedor and Henderson if he moves to Middleweight

so then i guess liddell isnt a good example of a ufc fighter being beat by a pride fighter because he is aging right? couture shouldnt count either then because he is aging as well? when did cro cop ever say he came to the ufc because he thought it was lower competition, the reason he came was for a fatter paycheck and if he did think the competition was lower then he was obviously mistaken. ive tried to be neutral in the whole Pride vs UFC thing but pride nuthuggers are turning out to be worse than TUFers! cro cop may have been great in his prime but to say that his losses dont count because he doesnt have passion anymore is stupid. and after that embarassing performance by shogun i dont see why anyone would even bother defending pride fighters in the ufc, if they are superior fighters then they better show some sign of it because the only thing worse than their debuts is the arguments people make that they would be winning if [insert lame excuse here].

Well said. I'll just be glad when Pride is gone, and the conflict ends.

d_block07

9/23/07 2:48:40AM

i mean wiht all the arguing and points being made all that needs to be said is this SHOGUN top 2 ranked fihgter in the world makes his ufc debut to FORREST GRIFFIN winner of the original tuf who everybody called a stepping stone and a good debut fight to introduce shogun. GOT FINISHED by forrest enough said

cmill21

9/23/07 3:17:33AM

Posted by xxMALICExx

Everybody saw it. NEED I SAY MORE. Rua is one of PRIDE's top fighters. If not the top fighter. He gassed in the second. Most top fighters in any organisation don't gas. Not halfway through the second. Getting tired has nothing to do with the cage. In other areas I understand, they need to get used to being in the cage and the rules. But TOP FIGHTERS DONT GAS. Will he adapt and put together a win streak? We'll see. Until then, say what you will. IMO Most PRIDE fighters are overrated. I said most!!

Top fighters don't gas? Ummmm....ooookkk. What are your views on BJ Penn? I see he's #2 on your P4P list, little contradictory there big guy. I don't get it if Forrest says "he's top two in the world" why can't the internet warriors get off it? All that needs to be looked at is Shogun gassed, forrest by no means dominated the fight, Shogun was still the agressor, and yeah he was finished, props to forrest. Shogun needs to work on cardio obviously it's not like he was out classed....man.

MALICE

9/23/07 11:26:24AM

Posted by cmill21

Posted by xxMALICExx

Everybody saw it. NEED I SAY MORE. Rua is one of PRIDE's top fighters. If not the top fighter. He gassed in the second. Most top fighters in any organisation don't gas. Not halfway through the second. Getting tired has nothing to do with the cage. In other areas I understand, they need to get used to being in the cage and the rules. But TOP FIGHTERS DONT GAS. Will he adapt and put together a win streak? We'll see. Until then, say what you will. IMO Most PRIDE fighters are overrated. I said most!!

Top fighters don't gas? Ummmm....ooookkk. What are your views on BJ Penn? I see he's #2 on your P4P list, little contradictory there big guy. I don't get it if Forrest says "he's top two in the world" why can't the internet warriors get off it? All that needs to be looked at is Shogun gassed, forrest by no means dominated the fight, Shogun was still the agressor, and yeah he was finished, props to forrest. Shogun needs to work on cardio obviously it's not like he was out classed....man.

Your right. I better go reeavaluate my pics, so there is no confusion. I have no excuses. Hes still on my list isnt he? He just needs to show more in his next fight.

cmill21

9/23/07 12:27:44PM

I don't care about your pics i'm just saying alot of people have double standards when it comes to what you can do as a pride fighter and what you can do as a UFC vet.

MALICE

9/23/07 12:39:25PM

That is my title. UFC + PRIDE = CONCLUSION. Yes. I understand. Two different venues. Can't compare the two but, everyone does. This Is all I was trying to say with this post. There will be no argument soon. There will be no PRIDE is best, no UFC is best. There will only be one venue with all the top fighters in it. Some people don't like this, but its called the UFC.

Rush

9/25/07 10:53:32AM

Posted by Pitbull09

Mriko isnt a good example of Pride fighters, he's aging and went to UFC to fight lower competition to see they were on par with Prides. He simply to old and will retire soon. Your going to see Pride fighters be jsut as good as UFC once they get use to some of the changes like the cage. Shogun will be huge in his division as well as Fedor and Henderson if he moves to Middleweight

If you think Mirko is too old then that must make you about 13 years old. Mirko is not old by athlete or MMA standards and I don't think he came to the UFC to fight lower competition.