Why Aren’t Nephalem Rifts Coming Free to Diablo 3?

Posted By: December 25, 2013

Nephalem Rifts are one of the cooler features in Reaper of Souls, according to current beta testers. They’re only available in RoS though, not on the PTR and they will not be coming to Diablo 3 via patch. Months ago when the feature was still called “Loot Runs” Blizzard said, via Twitter, that they would be added into Diablo 3 in a patch, though. Scandal! A fan brought this up and got a lengthy and very patient reply from Lylirra.

Lylirra: When we originally announced Reaper of Souls back in August, Loot Runs were a completely independent feature intended to be released as part of our pre-expansion patch. Since that announcement, Loot Runs have gone through several iterations and evolved into Nephalem Rifts, which are not only more complex in their design compared to Loot Runs, but have also become integrated with Adventure Mode and Bounties (they also tie into random item purchasing via Blood Shards, but that’s more of a tangential relationship). As a result, we made the decision to move Nephalem Rifts from the pre-expansion patch up to the expansion itself. It wasn’t an easy decision, but made the most sense given how Nephalem Rifts currently function and share dependencies with other expansion-only features.

therefore that tweet is a lie.
While the tweet may no longer be correct based on current information, it was 100% true at the time it was shared. Saying that it’s “a lie” is both spurious and factually inaccurate.

You’re welcome to disagree with our decision to evolve Loot Runs into Nephalem Rifts (which are now an expansion feature), but insinuating that we’re liars because their design has changed is unnecessary and only serves to undermine the actual value of your feedback. There’s no reason to sell yourself or your opinions short in that manner. Seriously. 🙂

There’s much more of the complaining and replying, if you want to click through to witness it.

Continuing the fascinating conversation:

Too late blizzard. I just saved a copy of this image and now it’s everywhere.
No need, but I admire your thinking. We’ve nothing to sweep under the rug here, though. This is just evidence of the potential downside of talking about features and systems early in design, as things are very likely to change and adapt (and sometimes very quickly too).

As noted above, if you dislike with the manner in which the design of Loot Runs/Nephalem Rifts have changed, please feel free to share that feedback–if you haven’t already.

*edit* gotcha b4 you edited it ; )
Hodor.

This is the kind of spin you only hear from Washington.
Being clear in what you say and what is being discussed isn’t spin. It’s being a responsible communicator and encouraging others to do the same.

For clarity, saying something is a lie is a pretty hefty accusation and, more importantly, implies an intent to deceive. A really basic analogy would be if your hair is currently red and you said “My hair is red.” If you later your dyed your hair black, would your prior statement be a lie? No. It just wouldn’t be accurate anymore.

Same basic principle applies. When we announced Reaper of Souls (the same day the tweet in question was made), Loot Runs were scheduled to be part of the pre-expansion patch; we wouldn’t have communicated this to players otherwise. Over time, the design and scope of Loot Runs changed and they became Nephalem Rifts, which are now an expansion-only feature.

So, were Loot Runs previously part of the pre-expansion patch? Yes. Are they currently part of the pre-expansion patch? No, the design has since changed (and is still subject to change).

Again, I’m not asking for players to change their opinions or feedback regarding the evolution of Loot Runs; I’m simply asking them to refrain from hyperbole. It makes discussions like these much more productive and meaningful.
#212 12/24/2013 3:22:00 AM

Why not do the responsible thing from here on out, and only announce systems that you are confident will pass muster?
Many players would argue the responsible thing is to announce new systems, features, and changes whenever they occur as soon as they occur (and potentially even before they occur), regardless of the fact that they may or may not be final.

I’m not saying you’re wrong or that the other philosophy is right, just pointing out that two very different, often conflicting though completely valid perspectives exist within this community. We do our best to sate both, which is why you see us caveat almost everything with phrases like “at this time” or “right now,” but there will always be situations where that’s not entirely possible.

And that’s not a defensive statement, either (we know there’s room for improvement on our side). It’s just more of a harsh reality we have to dance with from time to time.

This is unfortunate for players who wanted to continue getting new content for free in Diablo 3, rather than buying new content in the expansion pack. On the larger issue though, we spent years pre-release constantly badgering Blizzard to announce more new info, tell us more about features during development, to share things while they were still in development so we could learn more about them, etc.

Meet the other side of that coin. Sometimes things they project or “promise” won’t come true. Merry Xmas!

Comments

I would find it so frustrating knowing there was an expansion out, that if i didn’t buy it i wouldn’t be playing the game until i did anyway. So to me it doesn’t really matter that its no longer free in a patch!

Lets say Nephalem Rifts were going to be free in a patch for D3V at the same time as RoS came out.
Just having NR’s and different stats on weapon’s wouldn’t be enough to make me want to play D3V again, not when i new that everyone who bought RoS also got:

a new act
different monsters
more bosses
lvl 60 to 70
new skill’s
the mystic
a new character class
new and higher lvl items
and whatever else.

I’m amazed that anyone kept playing normal D2 once LoD came out! (what % of people do you think did?) How much of the stuff in LoD was also put back into D2 (i never checked)

So sure it’s bad they went back on their word. But i wouldn’t start playing again without getting RoS anyway.

for me the only big change that came with LoD was the resolution upgrade, where you could finally play in 800×600 instead of 640×480. and of course that was one of those features where EVERYONE screamed It should have been this way at release!!!!

It was a bit of a cheesy feature though as it allowed you to see the monsters before they saw you if you were playing carefully.

As to Classic, it still has a lot of players but no doubt they did the LoD thing and went back, they are two different, but similar games. Myself I do both, it’s very, very quick to get to 60 or so in Classic, within 2 days of each new ladder there are public enchant bots. I normally level all my characters to at least level 33 or so in normal cows, and sometimes kick it up to CS runs if they are available. Either way, I have a chantress, orber and shouter on classic every ladder I play so I can do quick runs for forge mules, but between two computers and sandboxie, I run 8 instances nowadays.

I do spend most of my time in LoD Hell though because nothing is worse than seeing the SOJ counter if you aren’t there, and also I like to run the Ubers with off beat specs at the end of the ladder to see how they perform.

Considering what Rifts and Adventure mode are, this is pretty shady. They’re not big and impressive enough to be behind a pay wall, although they are impressive. Torment is an even more obnoxious omission.

So the other day I bought sausages at the grocery store. They didn’t have hot dog buns at the time so I returned a few days later. I was disappointed that I had to actually pay for the buns. I mean, they would have been a nice addition to the sausages, and I already was a paying customer of the store. On top of that, an employee of the store once told me they were going to do a special where you’re getting free buns with a purchase of sausages, but they ended up not having this.

Maybe the community can advise me on the best course of action. Should just pay for the buns? Or buy something else or somewhere else? Or maybe I should plead with the manager to get my buns for free?

You should complain a lot about how you deserved buns for free since the hotdogs weren’t just how you wanted them to be. And swear you’re never going to shop there again, and that you’ll probably just become a vegetarian.

And then buy the buns anyway when no one is looking, via pre-order, since you realize w/o the buns you’ll have nothing to spend the next 2 years complaining about.

The answer is very simple. RoS is to small when it comes to new locations, classes (only one…) and other content. Blizzard is aware of that, even now players start to complain about RoS, giving “rifts” for free would make RoS even less interesting, Blizzard has nothing to offer, RoS is hardly an extension and they know it. Blizzard cannot afford to cut another pieces from RoS and give them for “free” because there won’t be nothing left for RoS except of pity Crusader, another act and systems that where planned to be ready on D3 premiere…

So, by their logic, I can promise to pay at the restaurant tommorow, but I don’t have to pay tomorrow, because the circumstances changed, but I did not lie yesterday and I was 100% honest in my intent to pay.
Sweet.

That’s a non sequitur. You’re legally bound to pay for service in a restaurant.

You are allowed to change your plans only if the other party agrees to it. Announcing plans in tweets hardly forces anyone to not change said plans. That would absolutely ridiculous, just like this whole situation is.

I’ve been running quite a few Nephalem Rifts during FFalpha and am quite fine with them being expansion-exclusive content.

That said, I don’t know if playing the “too much of an elaborate system to be free” card is a smart move, as NRs are hardly an elaborate system (compared to what a fully featured, thought-through and seamlessly integrated endless dungeon system in the spirit of Lufia’s Ancient Cave or Zelda’s Cave of Ordeals could have been).

In its current state, the NR concept also gets somewhat stale really quickly – D3 classic players wouldn’t probably have fun for too long with them. Therefore it’s probably better to save them for those players who are fine with Blizzard’s way of handling the game and eager to purchase more of it.

Well, I think that they had some other expansion-only features planned when they’ve announced RoS, but for some reason they’ve decided to cut a couple of those and needed something from the pre-expansion patch to become an expansion-only feature to fill in the gap.

Go make some more coffee, ‘blue birdie’, divine being advises – your argumentation is weaker than your coffee-making skills…

The God declare that somebody, somewhere, somehow in Blizzard has to take some responsibilities for his/her actions, even the sightliest one. Like, for DeathMatch PvP, the reason heavenly being bought 4 copies.

Lying publicly becoming a policy rather than exception, and therefore, not an accident but possibly/probably done intentionally, increases confidence in Blizzard. Make yourself actually believe it – you seem to be quite good at it.

The God declares that Blizzard decision Bashiok 2.0 so ‘skillfully’ defends could look better only if PvP and DeathMatch arena would be given by Blizzard to D3 vanilla users, completely free of charge, at the time of RoS release.

The God declares that Blizzard promised ‘apology’ to the players would look better, if more RoS-only content is given to D3 vanilla players, instead giving a ‘musts’ – which would otherwise complicate life for them

Seeing people act surprised when plans change never ceases to amaze me. Anyone accusing the devs with lying about this should seriously rethink what they’re saying. The community should decide what they want:

1) No feature reveals before the features are final. That is no reveals before release. This means that there won’t be any community feedback during development at all.

2) Early reveals, with the always implied statement that anything can change anytime.

We had #1 after the release of the game. No info about what’s coming, but the community wanted to see previews of new features. Now that we have it people accuse the devs with dishonesty when a planned feature changes. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I’m genuinely impressed that the CMs keep replying to diatribe like this. It must require a lot patience.

That is the main reason I wont buy the expansion, because I only tried stupid PTR, and there is nothing new in actually. I have never had beta key to any blizz game,same for RoS, and there is absolutely 0 chance to buy the exp without testing all new features. They told us we will get free patch with most of the new stuff before RoS and that is lie obviously as usual. PTR is a fucking joke,and I wont do the same mistake again,to spend money for a game ,I have no idea how good,or bad is.

Wow. I have the opposite impression. I hoped into the D3 PTR about a week ago. Played for about an hour and said “This actually feels like an improvement. I’m going to stop playing now and wait for Loot 2.0 / the expansion so I don’t waste any progress in PTR”. The D3 vanilla PTR is actually what convinced me that I’m definately getting the expansion when it comes out.

But so is Blizzard’s late tendency of firing up the hype machine the second after they’ve decided on which their franchises they should next create a sequel for. Communicating ideas for future features (instead of solid plans) which they haven’t even really thought through or tested yet, has become a nasty habit of them. Still that’s what they actively keep doing and thus backlash isn’t entirely undeserved.

Of the options #1 and #2 you present as solutions above, I’d suggest maybe a #1.3: Present features to the public once there’s a solid, well-pondered, concept with confirmed feasibility and coherence and good progress on its realisation; still not a ‘grand reveal’ that doesn’t allow for any further course correction through feedback.

And by the way, their post-release silence probably had nothing to do with caution or reserve heralding a communicative paradigm-shift – my bets are on attempted crisis management through duck&cover. 😉

In my opinion the backlash would be deserved only if we wouldn’t have known about this before we could pre-order. Then people who already bought the game would have justifiably complained that part of something they just payed for became free.

The problem with your #1.3 is that at that point you still only have a plan to release something. Until a feature is not actually released to the public it’s best treated as non-existent.

Or the PvP is implemented in last 2h? Change of plans which means delaying advertised feature, payed in advance, then rinsing and repeating, then implementing a mockery, then saying that it is ‘a complicated matter’ 1.5 years after, without any note that it will be implemented at all is… lying.

It is lying but incgamers cant say that openly or they will be again excluded from all their betas and would not be recognized even as fansite (as it was when they were actuallly objective).

I am so sorry to see so many people being sheeps, the twitter was a statement. Exactly:

Loot Runs are randomized dungeons, monsters, and a mini-boss that drops sweet loot. Also, they’ll be pre-patched for free.

All the analogies are nonsense.

Also, they’ll be pre-patched for free.

Also, they’ll be pre-patched for free.

Also, they’ll be pre-patched for free.

Trying to defend blizzard here is disgusting. Blizzard on every occassion they can state that things are due to change, might change, we are still tuning the process and another thousand phrases they use , so we cant make demands on them. Here they just stated a fact and because it is withou these phrases, it is precisely why it was a fact and now it is a lie, because the loot runs will a payed feature.

Nobody cares about excuses, we added somthing so we want money for it.All I care is the initial statement or a fact.

I look at this as a testing ground: they take a “free” feature and reclassify it into expansion only to boost sales.
It will be replicated in the future, on other games and expansions, cause at the end of the day it’s “just business”!

It’s only a lie if they never intended it to be patched in for free. You can’t prove that directly, however if you think about it you’ll realize that there’s no reason for them to announce things they never intend to do or at least intended to do in the past. Again, this whole thing can be summed up with three words: plans may change.

Of course the statement could be true at that time, however because they changed it they became liars. Because that statement does not only exist in past. The future tense used in it, it is tied into the future and thus it can only be distinguished as a truth or lie in the future. Or more precisely as: the statement came to be true / or it did not.

And that future is now. And they are not delivering, not because of vis major. But because their sole decision. Which makes them liars. There is nothing preventing them, nobody forced them to make nephalem runs. And really the concept is 99% same.

They might not be liars then, but they are now. Or maybe the world swindlers would suit them more. But why argue over semantics? The important thing is they are not delivering a promise, even though its in their capabilities.

Just like PvP, Just like legendry dies, just like AH alternative (secure kind of trading) And the list goes on.

I am sorry if you cant grasp the concern, I respect you, so belive me I trully am.

This is what i was saying in the first post but a lot of ppl weren’t smart enough to recognize it being put they way i did! Which was from my perspective without saying “IMO”. (They probably cant figure out what I’ve said just now)

The God states that Rift question cannot be STRICTLY classified as a lie.

It was giving a misleading statements – since divine being is above Blizzard shady business (since D3V release, to be honest), question of ‘giving’ all the new features that were mentioned – and which would, indeed, raise quite shaken reputation among core-fanbase, if not among casual players which are satisfied with whatever is given, but lot less loyal in general (how many D3V copies does The God possess? Four! How many RoC/TFT? Twelwe! Ok, needed for the project, but still. How many RoS? One, and it will be bought only *after* it is released, and some time passes. How many future products? Questionable. WC-franchise one Blizzard product The God is interested right now And the trust is shaken, severely).

True enough, none of them, save PvP, were exactly *promised* to be given for free, before product went on sale.

Still, it is ‘read the fine print’ case – at some point, we were told that several features will be given – and consider ‘given’ as a compromise to non-patching clearly unfinished/unpolished game for 9+ months, leaving army of bots rampaging and generally fully neglecting the game – furthermore, intending to kill it entirely with RoS.

So, removal of Rifts is more misleading than a lie.

Same cannot be said for PvP, which is a lie and a theft and a criminal act in its purest form.

Many features existing in D3 beta, widely advertised were also removed, which was also misleading – average player, watching all the trailers and devs statements and so on would, for example, be rather sure that The Mystic will be in D3V from the start. Currently, it’s a payed RoS-only feature – The God adds that it DOES NOT require ANY complicated change which supposedly separates D3V from RoS. This may change, but how one feels over company which constantly changes plans on players expense?

I’m sorry but anybody that actually portrays this as a Lie is being obtuse. Blizzard ALWAYS gives the proviso on anything they project that things may change. ALWAYS. So how is the fact that anything they project that doesn’t transpire as they think it might, become a lie?

Some people will always want as much as possible for as little as possible and no matter what they get they will still complain and be a fussbudget cloud of negativity.

All the new features and new content have totally remade Diablo 3 and I am having a blast playing the closed beta and eagerly anticipate the release.

I have try Nephalem Rift, its joke!! Its old stuff that blizzard have use hahaha… They have took all the old dungeons link them, and they only they have done, its change the colors and the light. Its old dungeons, nothing is New here!!

Blizzard has every right to do whatever the heck they want to with their game. You don’t like it, don’t buy it. All the crying in the world isn’t going to change their minds. And they didn’t lie. The company has always stated that pre-release information is subject to change. Pretty simple concept. They could come out tomorrow and tell you that nothing in the PTR will go live and it would still not be a lie, it CHANGED! You don’t have to like it, just accept it and let it go.

I would not want to run a fan site, be a community mod, or an MVP with the immature and and whiny minority of noisemakers that show up on these forums. Good job to you mods who read all this crap and bite your lip!

No , they realise the expansion is way overpriced so need to add a few extra’s , not surprised at all .

I haven’t played since last January and was one of the people that said would come back for loot runs . I guess they wanted to gain some knowledge of how many people this might bring back , after all , how much more real content is there if you take out loot runs / nephalem rifts ?

Let’s look at Lord of Destruction for comparison, since it’s considered the “grail” being used as a yard stick.
– Assassin/Druid
– Act V
– Runewords
– Charms
– Miscellaneous quality of life improvements [also to note features were added post patch, JUST like they are today such as Ubers]

LoD was 30 about 10 years ago. Game price inflation has basically stacked about $10 more cost on to everything in present day. RoS is 40 and has MORE features then LoD when you count Rifts.

What exactly are you grumbling about again? 😛 And please find me some current expansion packs made by other companies that add more value then Blizz does. Because you won’t. Blizzard is not perfect – but they are one of the few companies that STILL make genuine old style expansion packs AND iterate on their games for years.

The God adds that Adventure mode was available in D2 from the start – in a way…

And major item rehaul, sorely needed in RoS, does not come, but it did come in LoD.

As The God is truth incarnate, runewords and synergies came years later, but – they came years AGO. They are KNOWN and could have been in game from the start. Or added anytime, when D3 flaws become apparent!

[The God pauses a while to ponder over comparing a genuinely new improvements D2 had, with ‘already-known’ ones that D3 gets. The God finds no ground for comparison]

‘Inventing’ runewords or synergies worths… much less in D3, since all the mental effort was done before. Only genuine new improvements should count!

‘Item rehaul’ – is needed in D3, because, apart from having new unique and legendaries, item needs:
a. item levels goes as 1, 2, 3, 4… 10, 11, 12, 13, where ONLY 11, 12 and 13 are actually usable, because the stats spawned (dmg, for instance) allows them to. Therefore – transmogrification (sic!)
b. 2-handers have no good use
c. shields are used by one character, cause fixed damage blocked, instead %-based
d. except cooldown/damage ratio varying among weapon types, but dps remains the same. why not having a ‘very fast sword’, with dagger-like properties? why spear range isn’t greater than swords (or daggers)? why there are two weapon types (in the affixes, something like thrust/slash) and both are identical
e. why Magic has no use?

The God would expect that major itemization patch also address some of these, instead doing things half-way

Oh I thought about it and “fondly” remember what should be in D3 anyway . You are looking at what actually shipped . Remember D3 at all , the game shipped minus a few things that were in the beta to the bitter end , but oh no , it went gold minus a few tidbits . So the Mystic should have been in at release .

Transmog ? come on , really 😛

Still won’t hold my breath .

I’ve been a massive fan of Blizzard’s Diablo series . I wrote enough in the past and couldn’t find fault . D3 was the exception , they just have to prove they still have it in them after last May’s debacle .

After all the mistakes they made with D3V, this expansion should be free, or maybe just charge a symbolic price, to make peace with players. That would be a nice gesture. And then, if a second expansion comes, charge the regular 40$ for that. That said, I’m going to buy the expansion anyway. I’m on closed beta and I’m enjoying the changes. I wouldn’t bitch much about rifts. At least, right now, they are… meh. Other features, like the new loot system, the mystic, the new legs, are the ones that bring new life to the game. It will never be a D2, but the game will be much more enjoyable with RoS. Just my 2 cents. Happy holidays everyone and sorry for my bad english.