Ahoy, ahoy! Welcome to the latest Department of Piracy Affairs thread, this time about upcoming plans for Swabbies and Battle Navigation. This replaces the previous Player Inclusiveness thread, from which we derived a lot of good feedback. Thank you!

Planned adjustments in the next update that we'd like your feedback on include...

Gunning Swabbies

The next release will give swabbies the ability to be ordered to gun. Obviously, they'll only perform as well at the puzzle as they do anything else, but they should act as a decent buffer on a pillage if you find yourself without any gunners aboard.

Extra Swabbies

Right now, we're looking at the swabbie levels of two particular vessels: the Cutter and the Sloop.

First off, we're giving the Cutter an extra swabbie. Amusingly enough, the Dhow having four swabbies to the Cutter's three was actually a longstanding oversight on our part. Players with extraordinarily long memories may recall a time when the Cutter was actually referred to in-game as the 'Large Sloop', with today's Sloop being the 'Small Sloop'. These original designations actually persist in the game's code to this day, including the code that determines the max number of swabbies a ship will get: 4, unless the ship is, ahem, a 'sloop' of some sort. Needless to say, we've changed this in the next update, so enjoy the extra hand aboard the Cutter! He works for free, so be nice to him.

Secondly, we'd like additional opinions as to how useful raising the Swabbie Crew Cutoff on the Sloop to 5 would be to you. For those not familiar with the "Swabbie Crew Cutoff", it is the total number of players + swabbies that are allowed on a vessel before taking an additional player aboard automatically planks a swabbie. In this case, raising the cutoff to 5 would allow you to sail a Sloop with two humans and three swabbies aboard, as opposed to the current situation in which a second human would boot one of your bots.

Battle Navigation Ultimates

With the next patch, we're realigning the rating scale for Battle Navigation standings. This is not going to directly affect the current relative standings between players (if you're at the top now, you'll start at the top in the New World Order), but under the changed system 1) we should actually see a proper group of Ultimates develop and maintain itself and 2) you'll need to PvP other highly-ranked Battle Navigators in order to ascend to the very top of the heap. Just fighting bots is only going to get you so far.

As always, we want to hear what you think about these changes, as well as any other player inclusiveness issues that you feel should be addressed. Thanks again for participating in the discussion!

Thank you. If there is any way to make it so humans are preferable to swabbies at guns (eg, adding a sparkle meter to guns), that would be nice.

Right now, we're looking at the swabbie levels of two particular vessels: the Cutter and the Sloop.

You know that there is going to be significant begging for increases on the larger ships, of course. With reason. I don't think you need to set it up so that people can solo larger ships, but additional swabbies would be practical for those times when you want to start a larger ship run quickly.

Secondly, we'd like additional opinions as to how useful raising the Swabbie Crew Cutoff on the Sloop to 5 would be to you.

I'm disappointing that there isn't an attempt being made to make gunning more feasible for lower skilled players first, or in addition to letting swabbies gun. There seems to be a very high amount of players who want to gun but aren't good enough, and a high demand for more people to gun.

Seems like you're only fixing half the problem.

Why couldn't you hand-make a whole mess of easy gunning boards for lower ranked players? Why not allow them to gun with 2 cannons? Maybe make low ranked gunning only require 2 pieces? At a powder/wad piece for low ranked guns?

I don't know. I come from the view point of someone who can gun well enough to get orders in any environment. I feel like it would be easy to increase productivity at the lower end without making me want to exploit it.

If you capped the max lower end speed at 90% Ultimate speed I would never try to exploit that. I doubt any skilled gunners would.
----------------------------------------CireGood Omens, Riot

Gunning SwabbiesThe next release will give swabbies the ability to be ordered to gun. Obviously, they'll only perform as well at the puzzle as they do anything else, but they should act as a decent buffer on a pillage if you find yourself without any gunners aboard.

I like this, seems like a step in the right direction at least. I'm sure we will find out just how many guns per turn we are looking at (probably 1-2).

Extra SwabbiesRight now, we're looking at the swabbie levels of two particular vessels: the Cutter and the Sloop.

Right now the cutter isn't really a pillaging ship, it's a trading one and a good one at that. Will adding an extra swabby make a huge difference? I'm inclined to think not, but it would be helpful at least.I believe the sloop should have a cut off of 5 would be great for pillaging. Right now the cut off means that either:1)Solo pilly with a nav/gun combo2)Load up an entire crew to replace all the botsThis shouldn't hugely affect the second full boat pilly, but would make solo pillies into dual pillies. This could be a gunner/nav or jsut nav/any other with the new gunning swabbies. This means gun/nav would become nearly obselete and would encourage players to work in pairs and makes it easier to pilly. Adding one more would really improve solo pillying.

Battle Navigation Ultimates Just fighting bots is only going to get you so far.

So first off this needed to be fixed for ages, now it's being addressed: good work. What is changing here is making PvP a requirement for high Bnav. I think we might get some differences of opinions over this, but currently there are very few PvPs on the entire ocean (cobalt), so I'm not really sure what the consequence would be. I really would like to see this stat just work, but I'm sceptical as to this just happening.

just some thoughts-GC
----------------------------------------Gcfungus of the Cerulean (Cobalt) OceanSenior Officer of CrossbonesMember of Elements of Fear

The next release will give swabbies the ability to be ordered to gun. Obviously, they'll only perform as well at the puzzle as they do anything else, but they should act as a decent buffer on a pillage if you find yourself without any gunners aboard.

Hurrah! Might make me even want to solo PvP again. Most of the reason I don't bother nowadays is from trying to gun on me laptop. So what level would they be at - maybe 1.5-2 shots a turn?

2) you'll need to PvP other highly-ranked Battle Navigators in order to ascend to the very top of the heap. Just fighting bots is only going to get you so far.

Sounds good, although it'd be even better if battle navigation had a big effect on the spawns so that people HAD to PvP in order to get good ships. Seems like a good opportunity to implement a PvP league in game too.

Edit: to be clear, I don't mean affecting the ramp. I don't mean having to hit good ships on a particular pillage to get better ships; I mean yer battle navigation stat in general affects what spawns.
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last edit by bronzebeard at Jun 9, 2010 3:10:51 PM]

This is excellent (though I don't use cutters so I don't know how that will work), so primarily, thank you. Another in a series of good changes in the last year or so. In particular I've specifically asked for the limit on sloops to be 5 recently, and that with gunning swabbies is awesome for officer training.

Now a couple of small points of criticism:- This release increases the incentive to PVP considerably. Please make at least sloop-sloop PVPs not get monkeyed.- Please do add extra swabbies on at least medium ships to help them leave port and do pillages sooner. Ideally no-one should have to job onto a ship and sit around in port for a pillage.
----------------------------------------Bobjanova on Viridian and MalachiteShops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, ChelydraStripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)

Sounds good, although it'd be even better if battle navigation had a big effect on the spawns so that people HAD to PvP in order to get good ships. Seems like a good opportunity to implement a PvP league in game too.

Please, no. I don't like being PvPed while I'm off on a pillage. I wouldn't mind it in an arena situation, but I hate risking my booty when my attacker is risking diddly-squat.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"

Players with extraordinarily long memories may recall a time when the Cutter was actually referred to in-game as the 'Large Sloop', with today's Sloop being the 'Small Sloop'. These original designations actually persist in the game's code to this day, including the code that determines the max number of swabbies a ship will get: 4, unless the ship is, ahem, a 'sloop' of some sort. Needless to say, we've changed this in the next update, so enjoy the extra hand aboard the Cutter! He works for free, so be nice to him.

As someone who has made a tool that takes into account that a cutter is a "lgsloop," was this change done by renaming the cutter to something else in the code? If so, would you be willing to post what the new internal name is for cutters?
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Sig

Owner: Sig Supply Network

What happens when you beat whiny sword fighters with overpowered trash swords...

As someone who has made a tool that takes into account that a cutter is a "lgsloop," was this change done by renaming the cutter to something else in the code? If so, would you be willing to post what the new internal name is for cutters?

I don't like the pvp thing at all. So I'm on pilly, with great booty, and some player just comes with nothing to pvp me. I had only 2 people left on the ship (with medium stats) and he comes with 6 elite, and my chances of winning are really low.

Sincerely, I really don't think this should be implemented, but it's must my opinion.

I add: Not everyone like pvp. And a lot of players gets really angry when losing pvp. Is not my case, since I don't care being pvped, but I can see a lot of hate growing up in a lot of "sensitive" players there's in this game.
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Camioneta en Jade.Frozendemon en Sage.

The next release will give swabbies the ability to be ordered to gun. Obviously, they'll only perform as well at the puzzle as they do anything else, but they should act as a decent buffer on a pillage if you find yourself without any gunners aboard.

ok this is a welcome addition and long overdue. i think 1 gun per turn should be the bare minimum swabbie performance or you might as well not bother.

Hermes wrote:

Extra Swabbies

Right now, we're looking at the swabbie levels of two particular vessels: the Cutter and the Sloop.

First off, we're giving the Cutter an extra swabbie. Amusingly enough, the Dhow having four swabbies to the Cutter's three was actually a longstanding oversight on our part. Players with extraordinarily long memories may recall a time when the Cutter was actually referred to in-game as the 'Large Sloop', with today's Sloop being the 'Small Sloop'. These original designations actually persist in the game's code to this day, including the code that determines the max number of swabbies a ship will get: 4, unless the ship is, ahem, a 'sloop' of some sort. Needless to say, we've changed this in the next update, so enjoy the extra hand aboard the Cutter! He works for free, so be nice to him.

Secondly, we'd like additional opinions as to how useful raising the Swabbie Crew Cutoff on the Sloop to 5 would be to you. For those not familiar with the "Swabbie Crew Cutoff", it is the total number of players + swabbies that are allowed on a vessel before taking an additional player aboard automatically planks a swabbie. In this case, raising the cutoff to 5 would allow you to sail a Sloop with two humans and three swabbies aboard, as opposed to the current situation in which a second human would boot one of your bots.

as we have discussed extensively in the original extra swabbies thread , swabbies in their current form are fairly useless and give zero benefit in a fight. they are only good for moving a ship from point A to point B, avoiding fights along the way. adding the ability to gun increases their usefulness by a hair, but not enough for me to deport. they need to score at least a good to be considered useful. i'm mainly looking at swabbies that show up to replace people who leave in battle. they aren't an equitable replacement and because i don't have a good insurance policy against unknowns I am less likely to job unskilled (and likely unreliable) people from the noticeboard. lack of insurance hurts player inclusiveness, if you will.

Hermes wrote:

Battle Navigation Ultimates

With the next patch, we're realigning the rating scale for Battle Navigation standings. This is not going to directly affect the current relative standings between players (if you're at the top now, you'll start at the top in the New World Order), but under the changed system 1) we should actually see a proper group of Ultimates develop and maintain itself and 2) you'll need to PvP other highly-ranked Battle Navigators in order to ascend to the very top of the heap. Just fighting bots is only going to get you so far.

As always, we want to hear what you think about these changes, as well as any other player inclusiveness issues that you feel should be addressed. Thanks again for participating in the discussion!

HermesUndersecretary of Piracy Affairs

firstly thank you for looking at bnav rankings. see i am capable of saying thank you. bet you are surpised :P

now when you say "top of the heap" do you mean, for #1 trophy?

right now i don't pvp because it doesn't do anything for my jobbers. pvp battles are long and the money sux. if you want to piss off your jobbers, do a long hard battle and win little money for it. i can sort of see this being the "most loyal hearty" trophy if it becomes heavily pvp based, and notice board bnavs will be at a very big disadvantage, as will nonfamous ones.

now if you made a parlor game for pvp bnaving, that didn't require jobbers. that would be more viable. and alot of people have asked for that. and the famous navs would have no real jobber advantage, it would be more of a true contest of naving skills. you could even set up bnav tournaments then. omg i need to change my pants now.
----------------------------------------Karnisovflinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game

Might rings exist to prevent that sort of situation from happening, and they work. Moreover, making ultimate b-nav rely on PVP doesn't change anything - especially since Hermes post makes clear that you have to fight other elite b-navvers, not a mid-range player.
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The Dread Pirates Robinson & Barthes, LLC

The poor complain; they always do. But that's just idle chatter.Our system brings rewards to all. At least, to all who matter.
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last edit by funnybones at Jun 9, 2010 4:40:53 PM]

Now would be a good time to implement some sort of even take between PvPer and PvPee. You can't win more than you could lose.

PvP bnav ranking should be just like every other ranking: just bragging rights.

I have no problems with fully staffing even large ships, at least in theory. I want it so that hiring jobbers that do at least Poor are better than hiring swabbies. I don't want jobbers to become even more of second-class players than they already are. I have no problems with fully staffing even large ships with high quality jobbers, again, as long as you would be much better off PoE wise to hire equivalent players. I would pay good PoE to be able to go into a flotilla with my ship and learn how to bnav that situation without making the game unfun for 25-60 other players. If hiring high enough quality jobbers to do that kind of learning cost me 10k/hour, even after all sinking bonuses and such are taken into account, I think it would be great for the game.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.

I agree with Cire. I'd much rather see the gunning puzzle improved for lower-end players. Even able swabbie gunners push them further to the side, because of the swabbies' consistency.

I'm still a fan of what I suggested at the end of the previous thread. Better swabbies and zero stock in exchange for lower noticeboard presence. For that type of voyage, higher performance swabbies are required.

I don't like using PVP to distinguish the nav ranks. First of all, how will you treat disengages? How will you judge whether the player was disengaging a trade ship from a hunter, or running in terror with a fully equipped warship? And how will you allow people to participate in casual PVP environments such as monkey hunts and alt-heavy tournaments without ruining their bnav standing? What happens when the player is attacked by obviously overpowering alts protecting their own rankings?

Do you rate a sinking PVP fight the same as a pillage AI fight, even though they require considerably different nav skills? I've sunk some pretty good players, but I still struggle at times to get a perfect pillage grapple.

I'm not one to run from a battle (had my share of sinking sloops, PVP'd a vulnerable war brig with a dhow once) but I still don't like some of the implications here. I pillage with 5-6 people on a sloop or a full crew on a larger ship. PVP in those circumstances versus a competent player is a long, grueling experience. If someone engages my pillage ship when there's 40k+ in the booty and 5 crew aboard, I am not going to waste 40 minutes dodging around them unless they're doing something silly like soloing their ship. I already waste enough time in regular pillage battles.

For PVP to be *fun* enough to participate at the high end, the number of players per sloop needs to be fairly small. That usually means setting it up beforehand. Pretty much the opposite of pillaging. I'd rather see PVP improved to be fun for a broader proportion of voyages before incorporating it as a key part of the bnav rating.

And PVP + pillaging still doesn't cover a huge area of what people do with their ships these days. Atlantis, CI, and flotilla nav remains unaccounted for here.
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On hiatus. :(
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last edit by false_dmitri at Jun 9, 2010 4:57:58 PM]

Extra swabbie on cutters will make them easier to solo so more people will be able to trade runs on them. The down side of this is moving commods will probably become less profitable but overall happy with this.

Ult bnav, nice.

PVPing for ult nav hmmm.

There is a distinct lack of PVPing at the moment, however the top navvers will win about 80% of the time against bots and gain maybe an average of 10-15k per battle. PVPing other top navvers they will have a 50% chance of winning maybe half that (if an average pillage is 4 battles) and if you lose a large chunk is removed from the booty. So to improve your bnav rank you need to either pay your jobbers the difference or make their pillage less profitable. I am wondering if there is some way to make PVP battles a poe fountain (some poe is magiced up in the booty as well as some being taken from the losers vessel) without it being exploitable.

What happens to your rank if you PVP a weak with weak bnav, if a ship has a different person dnavving and bnavving it will be very difficult to guess who you are going to be fighting. If I end up fighting an able navver will my bnav rank plummet even if I max- 0 them. Could this be exploitable. I am the No 2 navver, I engage the No 1 and give the helm to a new officer. Does the effect on rank take into account the might of your ship. If I am leading a pillage full of greenies getting and am attacked by a ship that is risking the black ship attacking me does the fact that they get more shots, and move tokens than be being considered in the rank. In fact problems with might rings are deeper than that. If somone who is ultimate in every puzzle is leading a pillage full of greenies he would probably have similar might to a sloop with a crew all ultimate in one puzzle and able in the rest. I am also fairly sure dnav affects might rings and I see no reason for that at all.

Another reason for the lack or PVP is monkeys, at least half the time you attack a PVP you get monkeys, sometimes the opponents will still be in the area after the fight but it is annoying.

What happens if the bnavver changes in the middle of the battle?

Are multi ship bnav still going to be unranked?

PVP bnav is quite a different puzzle that PVE, I think that all PVP should be unranked. However I can't see how the scoring system seems to tie a whole bunch of the top navvers when none always max-0 orange and red imps all the time. (If the number of times you get hit isn't included in the calculation it should be)
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Apollo tells ye "If you're ok for me to do one [bake-off], I'll go with that."
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last edit by SirCarl67 at Jun 9, 2010 5:51:46 PM]

Since we're talking about swabbies, is it technically impossible to swap in a swabbie for a disconnected player at the start of combat? This has always been a source of much frustration in difficult battles. If you had to tie it to measurable puzzle output during the ship battle, it would still be a significant improvement.EDIT: *Melee* combat. The beginning of the swordfight or rumble. Below this I'm referring to the battle nav portion.

For that matter, swapping in a swabbie for every *non-idle* player who walks off in combat might help, as opposed to one for every three. As long as there's some sign the player was present, rather than alt-idling or randomly clicking, a swabbie replacement is justified.
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On hiatus. :(
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last edit by false_dmitri at Jun 9, 2010 6:39:05 PM]

i disagree, the bnav is an activity facilitator for other players and should get some credit for running voyages for other players.

now in regards to PVP and rank, I can see move spies becoming a huge problem under the new system. many players are already willing to do anything to win, hence the proliferation of sf modders and bilge botters. a move spy with half a measure of common sense would use 3rd party hands free voice communications like skype or msn voice, and would be undetectable by OOO staff. i think that you need to address the move spy problem with this update if you intend to make PVP a big part of the rankings. i think the bnav parlor game would alleviate the move spy problem quite a bit, since there would be no jobbers to relay moves.

edit: last second move is not an acceptable solution for the move spy problem as it does not allow for latency that a player may be experiencing.
----------------------------------------Karnisovflinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
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last edit by Karnisov at Jun 9, 2010 5:47:11 PM]

I think PvP and PvE should be seperate standings.So far my bnav standing has somewhat reflected my skill, but since I don't like PvP (at least on sloops) and am not good at it this might rank me lower than I think I should be. I think that should not be the intention since pvp fights are a rarity.

Just dont rate PvP, I don't like the idea hunting a pvp hunter for rank.
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Avatar by TwiztedroseForum mute - your shot at the waves of spam (also works on threads)

Right now, we're looking at the swabbie levels of two particular vessels: the Cutter and the Sloop.

Secondly, we'd like additional opinions as to how useful raising the Swabbie Crew Cutoff on the Sloop to 5 would be to you. For those not familiar with the "Swabbie Crew Cutoff", it is the total number of players + swabbies that are allowed on a vessel before taking an additional player aboard automatically planks a swabbie. In this case, raising the cutoff to 5 would allow you to sail a Sloop with two humans and three swabbies aboard, as opposed to the current situation in which a second human would boot one of your bots.

So overpowered for running as merchants its stupidly insane. Go look at one of the million other things wrong with the game, sloops with 2 human players and two bots is enough. unless one of those swabbies can ONLY gun? Then its fine.
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Yummym or Yumalt

Shanoyu wrote:

Excuse me it seems there are people making money that is not being distributed to me I would like this scenario to be ended immediately thank you kind regards have a nice day.

Right now, we're looking at the swabbie levels of two particular vessels: the Cutter and the Sloop.

Secondly, we'd like additional opinions as to how useful raising the Swabbie Crew Cutoff on the Sloop to 5 would be to you. For those not familiar with the "Swabbie Crew Cutoff", it is the total number of players + swabbies that are allowed on a vessel before taking an additional player aboard automatically planks a swabbie. In this case, raising the cutoff to 5 would allow you to sail a Sloop with two humans and three swabbies aboard, as opposed to the current situation in which a second human would boot one of your bots.

So overpowered for running as merchants its stupidly insane. Go look at one of the million other things wrong with the game, sloops with 2 human players and two bots is enough. unless one of those swabbies can ONLY gun? Then its fine.

It sounds like you are an skilled and experianced player. An officer with say master sails / dnav is likly to get engaged at the moment on a cutter before getting up to speed an extra swabbie will reduce that risk. I would class soloing a cutter at the moment an activity for the skilled not the general population.

Similarly pillaging on sloops. Most officers need to concentrate on the bnav. I am legendary bnav but I can't puzzle and dnav, and I am hopeless at guns the usual station for a bnavver working a station. Therefore 5 is the minimum crew.
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Apollo tells ye "If you're ok for me to do one [bake-off], I'll go with that."

OK, as far as the bnav rating goes, I feel that it is current very close to worthless. If you make it depend, at least on the high end, on PvP, then I think it will be be very close to worthless.

Right now, I judge bnavvers off of experience and the social puzzle. After the PvP change, I will judge bnavvers off of experience and the social puzzle. If bnavvers are wasting my time doing bad PvPs, I'll just not job with them again. If, on the other hand, they are doing good PvPs, I'll be more willing to go with them. Mind you, I enjoy PvPs and my typical argument with the bnavvers is whether they are going to get away with adding PoE to the booty for PvP.

So, I really don't care how the bnav rating is changed. YMMV

Edit: About raising the swabbie cut-off on sloops to 5, I think it would be great and have very little impact on trading. Right now, I can run a sloop around the ocean with just two bots, with me sitting in the crow's nest most of the time. The current 3 bots is nice luxury. Being able to have three bots, plus 2 players doesn't really change anything for trading. It would make a huge difference for pillaging though, and would be a huge improvement.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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last edit by wrs1864b at Jun 9, 2010 6:29:28 PM]

Right now there are Cooperative activites (voyages) and Competitive activities (parlor games). There are alot of selfish assholes at the parlor game tables on Viridian, people who don't contribute anything to the game community. I think it would hurt the social fabric of the game to encourage increased competitiveness in voyages by making the bnav stat weighted on pvp. let us cooperative players keep our gameplay refuge. don't force us into a style of play we don't enjoy. changing conditions to encourage pvp will have that effect.
----------------------------------------Karnisovflinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
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last edit by Karnisov at Jun 9, 2010 6:40:47 PM]

you'll need to PvP other highly-ranked Battle Navigators in order to ascend to the very top of the heap. Just fighting bots is only going to get you so far.

Does this mean that it would be impossible to attain Ultimate bnav if you never entered a single PvP?Or does it mean that you can get up to Ult fighting bots, but to get anywhere near the #1 spot you'll need PvP to bump you up?

I personally would prefer the second case. I wouldn't mind being last on the Ult list (since I don't really PvP), so long as I'm still ON the list...
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~ Thetwam of Sage: Senior Officer of PrivateersLord of Black Flag

This. There are people who are amazing at PvE, but horrible at PvP. Likewise, there are amazing PvP navers that are poor PvE navers. They really do require two different types of naving. It's like if you tried to compare Flotilla naving to Atlantis naving.

I would personally love to have my own personal "PvP" rank, so I can see exactly how my PvP skills compare to the other top PvPers on the ocean.

Perhaps title the current b-nav stat "Pillage Battle Navigation", and the new PvP rank "PvP Battle Navigation".------------------------------------------------Taking it even a step further, allow a new tab on the noticeboard that allows players looking for PvP's to set up a "table" (like in a parlor), where they can customize the ship type, and rules.

Once a PvP is commenced, have the players thrown onto a b-nav board with a ship that has a preset number of bots. It would take away from the social aspect of peace-time PvP, but I think it would certainly be VERY fun. Fun enough to keep me playing YPP for quite a long time to come, since PvP naving is one of my all time favorite activities :).
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StriderrsPretty much retired

The next release will give swabbies the ability to be ordered to gun. Obviously, they'll only perform as well at the puzzle as they do anything else, but they should act as a decent buffer on a pillage if you find yourself without any gunners aboard.[/quote] [/quote]

Its about time ye did, mainly for stuff like greeterpillages its a must to have a semydecent gunner (mainly because i prefer taking a longship)

Extra Swabbies

Yay, finally ! Never again we have to use the bug that right after an update you can put 2 ppl on a ship and then job the bots (you still got 3 sometimes (didn't report the times i had this because i was just thinking this was part of the update, i guess bots get confused right after an update XD)

Battle Navigation Ultimates

Read it , Hate it!! Dont make bnavvers go pvp. Some ppl just dont like it. If you want to decline the population further you must force in an update like this !
---------------------------------------- What about having a little fun ?

dutchyman on the hunter oceanfattawa on the ice ocean & midnight ocean