Comments on: Seats of the week: Forde and Herberthttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/
Reflections on the Miracle of Democracy at Work in the Greatest Nation on EarthTue, 31 Mar 2015 20:26:06 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1By: malcolm weatheruphttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1718020
malcolm weatherupSun, 28 Jul 2013 02:09:38 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1718020Small things count for credibility - in Herbert, the suburbs are Wulguru and Annandale (although Annandala sounds nicer).Small things count for credibility – in Herbert, the suburbs are Wulguru and Annandale (although Annandala sounds nicer).
]]>By: Dominic Byrnehttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712505
Dominic ByrneTue, 23 Jul 2013 04:11:37 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712505Dear Kevin,
You returning to guide the political party you once decimated, is like having Edward Scissor-Hands remold a soft, deformed unfixable piece of clay. The fact you are doing it for no reason but your own sociopathic, egotistical, revengeful personal gain is despicable. You were once deposed, because of Labors demise in the polls and fear of obliteration, are you seriously back in office to fix it?
You stuffed up so many policies in your previous two-year tenancy, that the splintered factions facilitated your removal. Now we have some of those faceless colleagues, like Bill Shorten, removing a bloody dagger from your own back and thrusting it, with no remorse, into Julia’s spine, for his own personal gain. It’s like you have manufactured a culture of psychopathic behavior, all at the expense of Mr. and Mrs. Australia.
How can you honestly talk about “Labor party reform” when it was you that leaked destructive material in the 2010 campaign, to deliberately sabotage YOUR OWN party with treacherous intent? Who will you recruit alongside Albanese, Bowen and yourself for the new gang of four? And will you ruin their political careers too? Did I hear you say, “Lets all be nice to each other?” I have more faith in those words coming from Mike Tyson’s mouth, just before he steps into the ring for an Evander Holyfield rematch.
So you have changed your autocratic ways have you? People hate each other more within you own party than they do, the coalition, or the public towards yourself. A result due to your narcissistic, malicious, vindictive demeanor, that cannibalised the party to which you have been reinstated.
Please don’t reiterate Swannies old boring rhetoric of comparing us to the rest of the developed world, we are our own country, and business is hurting. Our books aren’t balanced; we can’t spend our way out of debt. We’re not naïve enough, for you consider buying more votes with reckless cash splashing. Rumors you could be pushing the election back and keeping business development in doubt, is causing further paralysis in our economy, you are ruining hard working families lives.
Last week, your own colleagues voted you in to save their own seats, I can’t imagine voting for someone I detest. Now representatives in your team, have to smile and pretend everything is ok, how painful and demoralising. I bet they are physically sick with their decision and the thought of the months ahead, working under you.
You epitomise the current predicament of the Labor party, so while it’s fitting you are their “new” leader; it provides no hope for the country. You are a dishonest coward, running a government of instability in which you were the architect. If you won the next election, your re-appointment would be the inception of a full revolution of implosion. You represent nothing but dysfunction, division and disaster. You are not a “real choice”, you are a disgrace and an insult; it’s embarrassing to be Australian.
I have a family. I work for a wholesaler that didn’t turn a profit for the first time in decades. Its tough out there and all you care about is your own scandal, conflict, policy cock-ups, grubby deals, disunity and strategic blunders. We’ve had enough.
Yours sincerely,
Dominic Byrne
(and all the other Aussie punters that can’t stand the thought of you steering a sinking ship. Do yourself a favour, call an election and “zip” off)Dear Kevin,

You returning to guide the political party you once decimated, is like having Edward Scissor-Hands remold a soft, deformed unfixable piece of clay. The fact you are doing it for no reason but your own sociopathic, egotistical, revengeful personal gain is despicable. You were once deposed, because of Labors demise in the polls and fear of obliteration, are you seriously back in office to fix it?

You stuffed up so many policies in your previous two-year tenancy, that the splintered factions facilitated your removal. Now we have some of those faceless colleagues, like Bill Shorten, removing a bloody dagger from your own back and thrusting it, with no remorse, into Julia’s spine, for his own personal gain. It’s like you have manufactured a culture of psychopathic behavior, all at the expense of Mr. and Mrs. Australia.

How can you honestly talk about “Labor party reform” when it was you that leaked destructive material in the 2010 campaign, to deliberately sabotage YOUR OWN party with treacherous intent? Who will you recruit alongside Albanese, Bowen and yourself for the new gang of four? And will you ruin their political careers too? Did I hear you say, “Lets all be nice to each other?” I have more faith in those words coming from Mike Tyson’s mouth, just before he steps into the ring for an Evander Holyfield rematch.

So you have changed your autocratic ways have you? People hate each other more within you own party than they do, the coalition, or the public towards yourself. A result due to your narcissistic, malicious, vindictive demeanor, that cannibalised the party to which you have been reinstated.

Please don’t reiterate Swannies old boring rhetoric of comparing us to the rest of the developed world, we are our own country, and business is hurting. Our books aren’t balanced; we can’t spend our way out of debt. We’re not naïve enough, for you consider buying more votes with reckless cash splashing. Rumors you could be pushing the election back and keeping business development in doubt, is causing further paralysis in our economy, you are ruining hard working families lives.

Last week, your own colleagues voted you in to save their own seats, I can’t imagine voting for someone I detest. Now representatives in your team, have to smile and pretend everything is ok, how painful and demoralising. I bet they are physically sick with their decision and the thought of the months ahead, working under you.

You epitomise the current predicament of the Labor party, so while it’s fitting you are their “new” leader; it provides no hope for the country. You are a dishonest coward, running a government of instability in which you were the architect. If you won the next election, your re-appointment would be the inception of a full revolution of implosion. You represent nothing but dysfunction, division and disaster. You are not a “real choice”, you are a disgrace and an insult; it’s embarrassing to be Australian.

I have a family. I work for a wholesaler that didn’t turn a profit for the first time in decades. Its tough out there and all you care about is your own scandal, conflict, policy cock-ups, grubby deals, disunity and strategic blunders. We’ve had enough.

Yours sincerely,

Dominic Byrne
(and all the other Aussie punters that can’t stand the thought of you steering a sinking ship. Do yourself a favour, call an election and “zip” off)

]]>By: bluepillhttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712067
bluepillMon, 22 Jul 2013 13:22:00 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712067I don't agree with Psephos much but #2261 is a sound argument and the main concern of the Intellgence Community in Australia.
I would present a policy which:
1. Threw the book at anyone found piloting a boat full of people, any of whom are without identity documents. This criteria would establish 'reasonable suspicion of intention to illegally immigrate'.
2. Those without ID would be declared as ineligible for residency and would reintroduce TPVs (or similar) to send them home after a period/not allow family reunion.
3. Residency granted via sponsorship to remote/regional centres (not capital cities) for 5 years in the first instance, subject to review of the danger of return to home nation.
4. Sponsors would be required to guarantee employment, accommodation and board with reimbursement of the latter two by the Feds.
This system would, of course, work better with national smart ID cards, so that settled AS could be checked and dealt with easily if breaches were made (ie working in a capital city/residence in a capital city etc). However it would provide four main advantages:
1. AS would not be placed in outer suburban centres which are politically most sensitive to the issue.. this de-politicises it and gets it of the election agenda.
2. Remote regional centres with labor and population issues have a reasonable chance to be supported by the government to support and give meaningful work to AS who are genuinely seeking asylum from persecution.
3. Economic migrants might try for NZ or Canada instead, if settlement in a city was never an option/was a long-delayed option.
4. We could handle as many as we needed, sponsors permitting. Currently, our AS have cost $65 000 per person per year. Subsidising Australian farmers, miners, manufacturers, Tourism Employers and so forth for sponsoring AS would be worth considering.
I think this provides humanitarian support for genuine cases, on shore processing and a reasonable deterrent to economic migrants. Add free plane flights and you also cut out the middle man with leaky boats and people smugglers.I don’t agree with Psephos much but #2261 is a sound argument and the main concern of the Intellgence Community in Australia.

I would present a policy which:

1. Threw the book at anyone found piloting a boat full of people, any of whom are without identity documents. This criteria would establish ‘reasonable suspicion of intention to illegally immigrate’.
2. Those without ID would be declared as ineligible for residency and would reintroduce TPVs (or similar) to send them home after a period/not allow family reunion.
3. Residency granted via sponsorship to remote/regional centres (not capital cities) for 5 years in the first instance, subject to review of the danger of return to home nation.
4. Sponsors would be required to guarantee employment, accommodation and board with reimbursement of the latter two by the Feds.

This system would, of course, work better with national smart ID cards, so that settled AS could be checked and dealt with easily if breaches were made (ie working in a capital city/residence in a capital city etc). However it would provide four main advantages:

1. AS would not be placed in outer suburban centres which are politically most sensitive to the issue.. this de-politicises it and gets it of the election agenda.
2. Remote regional centres with labor and population issues have a reasonable chance to be supported by the government to support and give meaningful work to AS who are genuinely seeking asylum from persecution.
3. Economic migrants might try for NZ or Canada instead, if settlement in a city was never an option/was a long-delayed option.
4. We could handle as many as we needed, sponsors permitting. Currently, our AS have cost $65 000 per person per year. Subsidising Australian farmers, miners, manufacturers, Tourism Employers and so forth for sponsoring AS would be worth considering.

I think this provides humanitarian support for genuine cases, on shore processing and a reasonable deterrent to economic migrants. Add free plane flights and you also cut out the middle man with leaky boats and people smugglers.

]]>By: Psephoshttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712047
PsephosMon, 22 Jul 2013 13:15:03 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712047I like this one. :)I like this one.
]]>By: bemusedhttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712024
bemusedMon, 22 Jul 2013 13:03:21 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712024William announced a new thread for those who missed it.William announced a new thread for those who missed it.
]]>By: Psephoshttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712019
PsephosMon, 22 Jul 2013 13:02:17 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712019Personally I wouldn't give refugee status to anyone who arrived on an Australian border without papers. They all have papers when they arrive in Indonesia, because even in Pakistan you can't find an international airline which will board passengers with no ID at all. So if they arrive at our borders with no papers, they have destroyed them while in Indonesia. That to me is evidence of bad faith or deception, and should be grounds for rejection.Personally I wouldn’t give refugee status to anyone who arrived on an Australian border without papers. They all have papers when they arrive in Indonesia, because even in Pakistan you can’t find an international airline which will board passengers with no ID at all. So if they arrive at our borders with no papers, they have destroyed them while in Indonesia. That to me is evidence of bad faith or deception, and should be grounds for rejection.
]]>By: bluepillhttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712018
bluepillMon, 22 Jul 2013 13:01:37 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712018There is a reasonable suspicion at present amongst Australian Intelligence that Australia's relatively 'soft' borders may actually be a pull factor from he aforementioned nations among those intent on terrorist activity. The reason is simple: any action carried out would generate substantial coverage worldwide, Australia also has the densest urbanisation of any English-speaking country and already has extensive and relatively 'old' immigrant communities from middle eastern and Sri Lankan origin to establish necessary networks for activity.
Terrorist risk is not 'xenophobic' it is not 'sensationalist'. The fact that just over a year from 9/11 in the USA that hundreds of Australians died in a more local attack is no accident. Australia is seen as one of the USA's closest allies and the reputation of Australia as a 'capital of hedonism' worldwide makes it a jihadist target.
The situation from Sri Lanka is quite different and may present a different risk, though they feature highly in riots in Villawood and, from some sketchy reports in Nauru, also there. You can only understand this way of life by speaking at length with Tamils.. it is a complex set of issues but suffice to say that 'terrorism' has sadly become a way of life for some to be heard.
In any case, Australia needs to know who its AS are.That is the primary point. That is why boats arrival is a serious issue.There is a reasonable suspicion at present amongst Australian Intelligence that Australia’s relatively ‘soft’ borders may actually be a pull factor from he aforementioned nations among those intent on terrorist activity. The reason is simple: any action carried out would generate substantial coverage worldwide, Australia also has the densest urbanisation of any English-speaking country and already has extensive and relatively ‘old’ immigrant communities from middle eastern and Sri Lankan origin to establish necessary networks for activity.

Terrorist risk is not ‘xenophobic’ it is not ‘sensationalist’. The fact that just over a year from 9/11 in the USA that hundreds of Australians died in a more local attack is no accident. Australia is seen as one of the USA’s closest allies and the reputation of Australia as a ‘capital of hedonism’ worldwide makes it a jihadist target.

The situation from Sri Lanka is quite different and may present a different risk, though they feature highly in riots in Villawood and, from some sketchy reports in Nauru, also there. You can only understand this way of life by speaking at length with Tamils.. it is a complex set of issues but suffice to say that ‘terrorism’ has sadly become a way of life for some to be heard.

In any case, Australia needs to know who its AS are.That is the primary point. That is why boats arrival is a serious issue.

]]>By: Compact Crankhttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712007
Compact CrankMon, 22 Jul 2013 12:57:35 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712007The key issue with air travel is that to board a plane to Australia the Airlines check visas for entry are in place because the Airline is liable for the return flight.The key issue with air travel is that to board a plane to Australia the Airlines check visas for entry are in place because the Airline is liable for the return flight.
]]>By: Psephoshttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1712002
PsephosMon, 22 Jul 2013 12:56:19 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1712002[All three of those explanations have nothing to do with there being too many asylum seekers in the world, and therefore we have to be cruel.]
I never said anything about that. You asked why we draw a distinction between boat and air arrivals, and I told you.

All three of those explanations have nothing to do with there being too many asylum seekers in the world, and therefore we have to be cruel.

I never said anything about that. You asked why we draw a distinction between boat and air arrivals, and I told you.

]]>By: Psephoshttp://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2013/07/21/seats-of-the-week-forde-and-herbert/comment-page-46/#comment-1711999
PsephosMon, 22 Jul 2013 12:55:15 +0000http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/?p=15824#comment-1711999Ok, so now we know that Rudd has not carried the nation by storm, although he has recovered a lot of ground, both in general and on border protection. To win the election he will have to win the campaign convincingly. The arguments for going early and for waiting seem now to be evenly balanced.Ok, so now we know that Rudd has not carried the nation by storm, although he has recovered a lot of ground, both in general and on border protection. To win the election he will have to win the campaign convincingly. The arguments for going early and for waiting seem now to be evenly balanced.
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