Okay, quick review with TMI alert. I own a Feeldoe and as much as I love the concept of it, I must say that I am not a huge fan, both as a wearer and a receiver but I generally don't enjoy penetration. The learning curve is steep and I found it a little too heavy, even the slimmest version. It often feels like it is on the verge of falling out, especially during vigorous thrusting. I often have to steady it with one hand, which kind of defeats the purpose and I sometimes have to grip it with my thighs, which is an issue for me because my thighs don't touch at the top. The bulbous end can also feel extremely uncomfortable in certain positions and often leaves me feeling all bruised and tender, but I do have vaginismus and a tilted cervix. As the wearer, I also find it significantly more difficult to penetrate a partner anally compared to vaginally but once you're in, you should be okay. My Feeldoe came with the detachable vibrating silver bullet, which didn't seem to make that much of a difference so I usually remove it for use elsewhere. I like the Feeldoe worn with tight white boxer briefs, which also helps with the heaviness of it if that is an issue for you and it is fun to jerk off with (my favourite part about having a cock really), alone or with a partner.

I've been so focused on it is because I'm never entirely sure where I fit in. I'm not exactly androgynous in the way most people think of it; it's more like I'm alternately extremely masculine or extremely feminine, always full swing of the pendulum. There are times when I revel in the voluptuous femininity of my body, all fertility-goddess-earth-mother style, and there are times when I feel like I should have a penis, like I'm missing something that should be a part of me.

Teleute, you and me both

I recently attended an all-queer women's dinner gathering with a date, and we thought it would be fun to crossdress - her as a man and me as a woman. But then I thought, hey waitagoddamnminute....

I must say the response at the dinner (I felt) was akin to something you get after not having gone to church for the longest time, and then finally showing up at church.

Alot of the women I knew at the dinner were pleasantly surprised on the surface, although for some of them I could tell there was some degree of confusion. Someone actually asked me why I suddenly decided to wear a dress. My response was that I just felt like it. One of the butches even went as far as to flirt with me (just because I was wearing a dress).

But really, throughout all this, I sometimes felt strange - like this isn't really me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cors

I like the Feeldoe worn with tight white boxer briefs, which also helps with the heaviness of it if that is an issue for you and it is fun to jerk off with (my favourite part about having a cock really), alone or with a partner.

OK!! Time to shop for a feeldoe!! (but these things are so goddamn expensive here!)

Hmmm I will probably get a pantstuffer first and see how it goes from there.

__________________
"All truths go through 3 stages; it is ridiculed, it is violently opposed, and finally it is accepted as self-evident.":bow:

I recently attended an all-queer women's dinner gathering with a date, and we thought it would be fun to crossdress - her as a man and me as a woman. But then I thought, hey waitagoddamnminute....

I must say the response at the dinner (I felt) was akin to something you get after not having gone to church for the longest time, and then finally showing up at church.

Alot of the women I knew at the dinner were pleasantly surprised on the surface, although for some of them I could tell there was some degree of confusion. Someone actually asked me why I suddenly decided to wear a dress. My response was that I just felt like it. One of the butches even went as far as to flirt with me (just because I was wearing a dress).

But really, throughout all this, I sometimes felt strange - like this isn't really me.

Hahahaha I can imagine!

For those of you who don't know, Strangey and I met at on a forum for Queer Asian women about six years ago. There are some cool people there, but many are conservative, traditional, bi-phobic, queer-phobic, fat-phobic and the like so they are not going to take her "butch crossdressing" too well.

Quote:

OK!! Time to shop for a feeldoe!! (but these things are so goddamn expensive here!)

Hmmm I will probably get a pantstuffer first and see how it goes from there.

I own a Mister Softy packer and while it is realistic and comfortable, it is soft and wobbly so it loses the whole "I am so hard for you" effect and you can't use it to jerk off. The rubber also gets kind of icky if you wear it all day. If you are getting one, be warned that the Large is actually quite big and creates a massive bulge. As it is supposed to be a flaccid penis, I recommend a Small or Medium unless you want to look like you stuffed a sock down there.

It's been a bit more difficult for me to take part in this thread than I thought it would be. I've never really had a problem with feeling androgynous or being bi yet I've always felt about a bit concerned on the genesis of the latter. For a couple years as a preteen I was sexually abused by a male relative -- not my dad -- and on top of confusing everything else, it did a number on my gender identity. Prior to that I'd always been a tomboy but one who didn't mind wearing girly dresses and doing girly things. I had no wish to be a real boy, or feeling that I was in the wrongly equipped body.

Afterwards, I stopped wearing dresses at all (not sure if this was made more important than it really needed to be because my dad especially balked at wearing pants to church) and drifted toward a generic kind of androgynous boyishness. Of course it was the 70s and the happy culture of Bowie and such made it less weird, at least to me. One of the funnier things that happened was when I went to a new school and the office lady told my dad he had a very handsome son! Being a teenager I wasn't very happy about this at the time but being fat And troubled it seemed easier to deal with than participating in the girl/boy hornfest going on around me. Being androgynous, asexual and apathetic made life much easier to sludge through.

I had had crushes on girls but only after the crisis point and it always worried me that it was just another reaction against the abuse, that it wouldn't be as valid or heartfelt. I am still drawn overwhelmingly towards men, and still feel more comfortable being tom-mannish though becoming more femme over the years as therapy and life made me grow.

I think I would enjoy being a man but I still love being a woman! If I were somehow magically endowed with a male body I'm sure I'd be overwhelmingly gay. I've had daydreams of being a man and having sex with men and women which were fine and dandy. And, of course, the sexy visions of "having a wank" with a wang.

Confused as I still am, right now my feeling is that I've come to own my experiences, despite negative baggage, and my continuing evolution.

__________________.Non timebo mala.
"Well. When I'm here with you, I kind of miss myself the way I used to be."

Yes, thanks for posting DameQ. Its interesting that even those who don't actually ever feel the need to become another gender still have gender confusion to an extent. I guess part of what you are describing is gender-typed confusion as a reaction to something.
I try to think if there is anything i was trying to rebel against when i cryed when i had to wear dresses and loved dressing boyish and climbing trees etc. I wonder if on some level i was rejecting femininity because i knew somehow that i was queer, on some level, even from a very young age. I wonder if a part of me saw what 'types' dated women and somehow assimilated myself to be more like this.
I think it can work in different ways for different people. I know some quite 'butch' women who have told me they were bi but that it was easier for them to identify as lesbian. I was friends with a woman who had a beard and was bi but said that only lesbians would date her. I guess this throws up lots more questions really but it is interesting.

__________________We must learn that to passively accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, thereby to become a participant in its evil. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Will take pictures of me wearing it once I purchase it and get it (down my pants). haha.

I like that we can show our peens here when the men can't, but they get to flash some nipple. Oh well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mergirl

I think it can work in different ways for different people. I know some quite 'butch' women who have told me they were bi but that it was easier for them to identify as lesbian. I was friends with a woman who had a beard and was bi but said that only lesbians would date her. I guess this throws up lots more questions really but it is interesting.

Yeah, I have heard this so many times and it makes me sad. I even know quite a few women who have deliberately chosen to identify as butch because they think other butches and men won't be interested in them.

I am Trans Gendered. Never heard the term "Bi Gendered". That is an interesting term. I guess it applies like Bi sexual. I am a M to F TG that is growing breasts and wears fem cloths even when i am in "guy" mode. I have the mind of a woman and body of a guy. Being TG is not easy. I am open with it but don't push it on anyone. I have lost friends and gained friends for being what i am.

I am Trans Gendered. Never heard the term "Bi Gendered". That is an interesting term. I guess it applies like Bi sexual. I am a M to F TG that is growing breasts and wears fem cloths even when i am in "guy" mode. I have the mind of a woman and body of a guy. Being TG is not easy. I am open with it but don't push it on anyone. I have lost friends and gained friends for being what i am.

Hey chubby tgirl. Thinking about it, most of the queer people i know have at some point (usually when they are just coming out or at school etc) have both lost and gained friends. I think in some ways this is actually a fortunate thing because it means we can cut the crap out of our lives from the start.
I often wondered when people said they 'had the brain of x gender and the body of the other" -what it was that made them know. I guess, i thought about being both x and y in the brain but that would mainly relate to stereoyped behaviours of either gender. I think for some it even goes as far as wanting to have genitals of the opposite gender. (which i know is different from needing to re-align your body).
If gender is socially constructed, I wonder if it is social cues that make you realise you are in the wrong body. Or is it the body alone that feels wrong?. Or a bit of both?

__________________We must learn that to passively accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, thereby to become a participant in its evil. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Personally, I feel that I am more than somewhat bi-gendered. I am biologically VERY female, though bloodtests confirm I do make extremely high levels of androgen and about the same amount of testosterone that a teen boy makes while maintaining the estrogen levels of a grown woman. So, well, chemically speaking I AM bi-gendered. Regrettably my genitalia does not reflect this, though I would love nothing more than to have a full functioning set of both reproductive organs.

In life, I have found myself attracted to typically masculine roles as well as typically feminine roles. I work in hospitality management as well as running my own graphic design and illustration business, on top of that I model. I am at once very masculine and very feminine. I do not see one being stronger than the other and like Cors, oftentimes when I dress to the nines I feel a good bit like a drag queen and that is alright with me!

Really the only thing that delineates my gender is my genitalia. I would love to have a penis as well as my vagina. Sexually, I have had quite a few gay men and straight women attracted to me just because of my personality. Sexual tension ensues and sometimes a strap on comes into the picture. I guess it isn't so different from a man with a micro penis using an aide to satisfy his partner where he is physically lacking.

Someone talked about masturbation earlier and the shifting arousal points during masturbation. I think what you think about while you masturbate is a very good indicator of your true sexual feelings. There is no sexual partner to cater to, just yourself working towards a goal of release by any means necessary. As for myself, there are times when I picture myself as a man having sex with either men or women and orgasm with the typical male hip thrusting, projecting that energy outwards. There are also times when I imagine myself a woman having sex with either men or women and orgasm with a deep feeling of the need to be penetrated and to envelop.

I can not help but wonder if this is a genetic or sociological conundrum. Perhaps it is both. Today, more than ever we really do have to be both masculine and feminine just to survive and thrive. Think of the women who MUST work and are also mothers, or the men who are top level executives and MUST maintain that GQ metrosexual look all while being sensitive to others needs and feelings.

I know one thing is for sure: We as humans have an unlimited capacity to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically. Physiological factors take generations to perfect, psychological adaptation can occur in a matter of minutes.

I have issues with the bi-gender phenomenon in that I'm not sure I understand it, or myself in relation to it.

I have known about my bisexuality from a young age (I had a crush on a boy and a girl at the same time just after I started high school), and have "dated" both men and women but generally I have issues making romantic contact with women as I have never really got involved in LGBT culture. I have gay friends, but no lesbian ones, and when a straight friend asked me if I identified first with the LGBT or the FA/BBW community I immediately said it was the latter. I just feel more involved and more accepted here, which means I know a reasonable amount about this facet of my sexuality but much less about my identity as a bisexual and where I stand.

When I HAVE met women who are interested in me it becomes clear very quickly that this isnt going to work out because they see me as butch. I dont see myself as butch.

I rarely wear skirts or dresses (in fact almost never) because I find jeans and t-shirts more comfy, and when I put my hair up and wear a hat, I guess I could look butch... and I loathe using makeup every day and only wear it when I get dolled up.

But... I don't want to be the "guy", I like being a woman. I feel like a woman. I like being treated like a woman... I like getting dressed up in my corsets and jewellry and makeup and dressing up my hair and wearing my high heels when I go out and having people tell me I'm georgeous (bit arrogant I know, but I dont get dressed up alot so I milk it when I do). I like to challenge and be challenged in a friendships and romantic encounters but I'm not a dominant personality....

How can I put it? It's like I like to playfight, and I like to playfight ALOT, but I expect to get overpowered at the end and pushed up against a wall for some steamy activity. I don't want to be the one doing the overpowering...

Actually I think there's some Dom/Sub stuff mixed up in the gender indentity that I need to sort out, but I've never had a partner willing to explore that with me either. Gr.

Any advice? I'm not sure where I stand on the gender identity front... I'd say I'm femme, and that it's sometimes fairly aggravating to be taken as butch, possibly being a large woman having something of a factor in that.

Then the whole thing gets more complicated by the fact that I'm attracted to feminine women and masculine men. Androdgeny doesnt do it for me... *sigh* I find it amusing that I'm secure in that I embrace my sexuality as a large woman and I am secure in the knowledge that I am attracted to both men and women but have yet to figure out the rest of the framework...

Hello Lozonloz, I don't think you are bi-gender at all but I am basing this on your post only and I also have a rather rigid idea of someone who is bi-gender is like.

I see a bi-gender person as someone who is essentially gender dysphoric (characteristic of your typical transgendered person), believes that ze is both male and female, desires to have both sets of genitalia and experiences significant distress because of it. I feel that most of us gender-benders are just that, gender-benders, especially those who only desire to have the opposite genitalia when aroused. In that sense, we are closer to crossdressers and fetishistic transvestites (most do not have a problem with their assigned sex or wish to undergo SRS) than we are to transgendered individuals (who believe that they should be of the opposite sex and opt for SRS). However, there are others who are not gender dysphoric but have strong and distinct male and female personas anyway, and I can accept that these people identify as bi-gender. If you feel like the term resonates with you and that you can relate to others who do identify with it, then by all means make it your own.

In any case, bi-genderism is a gender identity just like male, female, trans or neither and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Of course, some also choose to see gender in terms of butch and femme instead of plain male and female, which is understandable and may explain your confusion, but considering what the terms "butch" and "femme" mean to you may help. These labels are meant to be empowering, not restrictive and in a postmodern world where our gender roles are merging anyway, a femme could well be tomboyish, abhor makeup and skirts and heels, chase other femmes instead of andros and butches, identify as sexually dominant and do whatever she fancies.

It seems like you identify as a femme, perhaps a submissive one and the fact that you are bisexual, appreciate feminine women and masculine men does not affect your femme identity. It is a shame that the women you have met assume you are something else and expect you to behave in a different way. There are others here who do identify as bisexual or even submissive, but had the butch label and stereotypical butch expectations slapped on them and it can be so frustrating. There is not much to do about it, except realise that many lesbian communities are unwelcoming of people who do not live up to the current stereotypes (it doesn't help that bisexual women are often rejected by default) and I hope you can meet queer women who accept you for who you are - I am still on that quest myself. If it is any comfort to you, the whole butch/femme dichotomy is slowly dying out in many places, so you are not out of luck yet.

Hello Lozonloz, I don't think you are bi-gender at all but I am basing this on your post only and I also have a rather rigid idea of someone who is bi-gender is like.

I see a bi-gender person as someone who is essentially gender dysphoric (characteristic of your typical transgendered person), believes that ze is both male and female, desires to have both sets of genitalia and experiences significant distress because of it. I feel that most of us gender-benders are just that, gender-benders, especially those who only desire to have the opposite genitalia when aroused. In that sense, we are closer to crossdressers and fetishistic transvestites (most do not have a problem with their assigned sex or wish to undergo SRS) than we are to transgendered individuals (who believe that they should be of the opposite sex and opt for SRS). However, there are others who are not gender dysphoric but have strong and distinct male and female personas anyway, and I can accept that these people identify as bi-gender. If you feel like the term resonates with you and that you can relate to others who do identify with it, then by all means make it your own.

In any case, bi-genderism is a gender identity just like male, female, trans or neither and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Of course, some also choose to see gender in terms of butch and femme instead of plain male and female, which is understandable and may explain your confusion, but considering what the terms "butch" and "femme" mean to you may help. These labels are meant to be empowering, not restrictive and in a postmodern world where our gender roles are merging anyway, a femme could well be tomboyish, abhor makeup and skirts and heels, chase other femmes instead of andros and butches, identify as sexually dominant and do whatever she fancies.

It seems like you identify as a femme, perhaps a submissive one and the fact that you are bisexual, appreciate feminine women and masculine men does not affect your femme identity. It is a shame that the women you have met assume you are something else and expect you to behave in a different way. There are others here who do identify as bisexual or even submissive, but had the butch label and stereotypical butch expectations slapped on them and it can be so frustrating. There is not much to do about it, except realise that many lesbian communities are unwelcoming of people who do not live up to the current stereotypes (it doesn't help that bisexual women are often rejected by default) and I hope you can meet queer women who accept you for who you are - I am still on that quest myself. If it is any comfort to you, the whole butch/femme dichotomy is slowly dying out in many places, so you are not out of luck yet.

Thanks for the post Cors, it's been very informative and helpful.

I'm glad to hear the butch/femme thing isn't as prevalent as I thought, I find it troubling that I have to stick so many labels on myself to identify my sexuality. I'd rather just go with the flow and figure it out as I go along.

I think I've always thought about the continuous scale of gender (rather than binary) jsut the same as bisexuality, and so can understand where the term bi-gendered could fit.

I guess I've never thoguht about it in as much detail though. I was always a tomboy growing up and only in the last couple of years have I enjoyed dressing up, wearing make-up, skirts and dresses. I have no problem with my body ( I LOVE being female and having boobs!) but I've always wanted a strap-on in that I'd feel comfortable with a penis in a sense. I feel comfortable in a male profession, and thoroughly enjoy what are considered male hobbies (loved playing rugby) but LOVE arts and crafts, sewing, designing and other feminine hobbies.

Well I did reply the most thought provoking, best response EVER yesterday (honest) but it seemed to have gotten deleted (oopsy daisy me)!

I think I've always agreed with this topic but without thinking about it in much detail. I understand where you're calling it bi-gendered, when you compare it to being bisexual. I totally agree that it's a continuous scale rather than a discrete binary gender, exactly the same as peoples' sexuality.

Growing up I was always considered the tomboy. First girl on the football team, loved playing rugby, always in trousers and a t-shirt and climbing trees. I did have the odd feminine quality in amongst it all though. In the last ocuple of years I've discovered my more feminine side; wearing skirts, even dresses (and the odd flowery dress!!!), doing arts and crafts, whatever. I still however do feel just as comfortable in masculine clothes, but some days just want to don a pair of high heels!

I do not consider myself a man trapped in a woman's body, and do not consider surgery at all. I LOVE being a woman (I am particularly proud of my boobs), however I've always been conscious about the fact that I would feel comfortable with a penis in that I would happily put on a strap on and assume the male role during sex. I enjoy the idea of doing this and then reaching around to stimulate my male partner as if his penis is an extension of me.

So, in short, yes. And I know that as a child I still wouldn't have become a man. As much as I enjoyed the masculinity I still feel a woman.

I think I've always thought about the continuous scale of gender (rather than binary) jsut the same as bisexuality, and so can understand where the term bi-gendered could fit.

I guess I've never thoguht about it in as much detail though. I was always a tomboy growing up and only in the last couple of years have I enjoyed dressing up, wearing make-up, skirts and dresses. I have no problem with my body ( I LOVE being female and having boobs!) but I've always wanted a strap-on in that I'd feel comfortable with a penis in a sense. I feel comfortable in a male profession, and thoroughly enjoy what are considered male hobbies (loved playing rugby) but LOVE arts and crafts, sewing, designing and other feminine hobbies.

Such an interesting topic though. =)

OK, I totally have teh pussy envy! Awesome orgasms and you can opt for a feeldoe or a shepee as and when you need... Bloke bits are nowhere near so versatile!

I dont really see myself as bi-gendered, but I do wonder what it would be like to be a guy (or to have a penis, more specifically).

Although I wouldn't consider myself as "girly", I do very much enjoy being the woman that I am. But, Im also very much into androgyny as well. I like people questioning what Im about when Im walking around in public. When I go to the gay club, I dress way more masculine.

I just love androgyny. sosososo much.

__________________

A match in the rain, a moth to the flame
A pleasure-seeking yahoo with a penchant for pain
A double-decker bus of trouble, I'm in the way

I identify as genderqueer and would probably describe myself as bigender.

I've gone through a lot of different phases and periods of questioning my identity. For a large portion of my childhood I identified as a boy and tried my best to pass. When other children asked if I was a boy or a girl at the park I'd say "Boy," "Both," "Neither," or "It's a secret!" I talked about growing a penis a lot. My parents did their best to stamp these thoughts out of me and refused to let me dress as a boy and kept on buying me dolls hoping that maybe I'd stop playing army men with my brother.

Eventually I shifted back to feeling more feminine, but still out of place. In high school I started wearing makeup but then went through a period where I felt completely male and seriously considered transitioning. But the next year the pendulum swung again and I ended up even girlier than I was before.

At this point I've just sort of accepted that my gender and sexuality are fluid. I have a chest binder and sometimes I'll act as my boyfriend's boyfriend (though I don't often have the balls to do this in public.) Other days I get all dolled up in lace and frills. I've found that I seem to have settled into a mostly female identity and I no longer have (much) dysphoria. Ideally I would be able to switch my sex at will but...that isn't going to happen. So I figure there would be no point in transitioning because I'd just be an androgynous guy instead of an androgynous girl.

If you actually read all that, I hope my experiences helped you understand bigender people more.

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I don't know if I like certain things ironically or if I actually just have horrible taste. Livin' la vida kawaii.

I love reading back through this thread, because there is so much fantastic stuff. But at the same time it makes me sad, because it reminds how many of my favourite posters have moved away from Dimensions over the years.

And Kawaii....

Quote:

Ideally I would be able to switch my sex at will but...that isn't going to happen. So I figure there would be no point in transitioning because I'd just be an androgynous guy instead of an androgynous girl.

a) Total envy/admiration that you have this figured out already--you are wise for your age!

b) You said that so much more concisely that when I was trying to express the same basic idea!

c) I couldn't rep you for a and b, so just posting it here.

__________________Criticism is so often nothing more than the eye garrulously denouncing the shape of the peephole that gives access to hidden treasure.

I love reading back through this thread, because there is so much fantastic stuff. But at the same time it makes me sad, because it reminds how many of my favourite posters have moved away from Dimensions over the years.

And Kawaii....

a) Total envy/admiration that you have this figured out already--you are wise for your age!

b) You said that so much more concisely that when I was trying to express the same basic idea!

c) I couldn't rep you for a and b, so just posting it here.

Thank you. I think I still have a lot of self-discovery to do but...doesn't everybody? It never really ends. (At least when you're as crazy, *ahem* "complicated" as I am.)

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I don't know if I like certain things ironically or if I actually just have horrible taste. Livin' la vida kawaii.

To me, someone who is bi-gender(ed) is a person feels like they are born in the wrong body, kind of like someone who is transgender but their true self is a hermaphrodite. In other words, they want to be simultaneously male and female with the parts to go along with it.

I consider myself genderqueer. I do appear conventionally feminine, but I often feel like a drag queen when I am dressed to the nines. The idea of playing around with gender roles also get me all hot and bothered - nothing more exciting than packing under a tight leather skirt and bending someone who is outwardly tough and masculine over. I sometimes wish I am male, but I would want to be extremely campy, flamboyant and queer so most people don't take it seriously.