Why the ever-loving fark does this process have to be made so complicated? Doesn't Canada use entirely hand-marked ballots and human counting, and still manage to get faster and more accurate election results that we do?

Also, if you can't duplicate 100K machine-readable forms without over 10000 errors, you need to switch to a simpler format, a better print service, or both. This isn't rocket science.

Z-clipped:Why the ever-loving fark does this process have to be made so complicated? Doesn't Canada use entirely hand-marked ballots and human counting, and still manage to get faster and more accurate election results that we do?

I think from this point forward we should simply put both candidates in a ring armed with clubs with nails protruding from them. Whoever comes out alive gets the stress and power trip of being Commander in Chief along with a whole slum-load of street cred.

Step 1: stay the fark away from scantrons, diebold, and any possibly electricity.Step 2: print out the ballots with large spaces to put checks in next to all candidates and a space for write-ins.Step 3: assemble a large collection of bic pens.

Voter checks off his choices, hands the ballot to the poll operator, who hands it over to counters. This isn't rocket science - farking kindergarteners manage this process.

As an added bonus, put a serial number on each ballot and have the people working the polls give each voter a copy of his choices. Then to count up the votes, just make an excel spreadsheet, add 1's under which candidate they voted for, then just do a sum at the bottom. Then put a copy up on the web so people can see that their vote was actually counted instead of being lost or hanging chadded.

wippit:Z-clipped: Why the ever-loving fark does this process have to be made so complicated? Doesn't Canada use entirely hand-marked ballots and human counting, and still manage to get faster and more accurate election results that we do?

To be honest, we also only have 1/10th your population.

So? Why wouldn't whatever system you use scale up to our population? I mean, more people = more counters, right? Is it that much cheaper to build specialized equipment, specialized software, and (apparently) do incompetent specialized printing instead of using a photocopier and devoting some government workers to counting for one day a year?

Z-clipped:wippit: Z-clipped: Why the ever-loving fark does this process have to be made so complicated? Doesn't Canada use entirely hand-marked ballots and human counting, and still manage to get faster and more accurate election results that we do?

To be honest, we also only have 1/10th your population.

So? Why wouldn't whatever system you use scale up to our population? I mean, more people = more counters, right? Is it that much cheaper to build specialized equipment, specialized software, and (apparently) do incompetent specialized printing instead of using a photocopier and devoting some government workers to counting for one day a year?

Z-clipped:wippit: Z-clipped: Why the ever-loving fark does this process have to be made so complicated? Doesn't Canada use entirely hand-marked ballots and human counting, and still manage to get faster and more accurate election results that we do?

To be honest, we also only have 1/10th your population.

So? Why wouldn't whatever system you use scale up to our population? I mean, more people = more counters, right? Is it that much cheaper to build specialized equipment, specialized software, and (apparently) do incompetent specialized printing instead of using a photocopier and devoting some government workers to counting for one day a year?

Canada also has an arms-length election agency with broad criminal investigatory powers and the ability to fine/suspend/outlaw political parties and to strip elected officials of their office. Those are the guys that count the ballots, with observers from 2-4 of the political parties watching. There are no political election officials like there are in America.

NeverDrunk23:There is something very wrong with how Florida and Ohio could decide the election.

It simply cannot be a coincidence that two of the biggest swing states have the most "incompetent" and opaque voting administration. It's farking shameful how obviously corrupt this process has become. The fact that Diebold is involved at all is a travesty.

That article sucks. Apparently the error has something to do with merit retention votes for circuit and appellate judges - who are almost always retained because most citizens don't know the difference. But they don't say what the error is, and how they plan to "correct" it. Unless the information is buried in there and tl;dr.

Bored Horde:Canada also has an arms-length election agency with broad criminal investigatory powers and the ability to fine/suspend/outlaw political parties and to strip elected officials of their office. Those are the guys that count the ballots, with observers from 2-4 of the political parties watching.

I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds like a damn good use of tax dollars to me. In fact, I say we repeal the Patriot Act, and reassign the entire DHS budget to a new Independent Department of Defenestrating Election Tamperers. Keep their funding and staffing out of Congress' hands, and turn them loose.

Basically, we need TRON is what I'm saying. That'd shut the system down.

indylaw:That article sucks. Apparently the error has something to do with merit retention votes for circuit and appellate judges - who are almost always retained because most citizens don't know the difference. But they don't say what the error is, and how they plan to "correct" it. Unless the information is buried in there and tl;dr.

I just filled out my Florida absentee ballot and...wow. It is full of seriously sketchy constitutional amendments. It's also interesting how candidates are ordered.

doyner:indylaw: That article sucks. Apparently the error has something to do with merit retention votes for circuit and appellate judges - who are almost always retained because most citizens don't know the difference. But they don't say what the error is, and how they plan to "correct" it. Unless the information is buried in there and tl;dr.

I just filled out my Florida absentee ballot and...wow. It is full of seriously sketchy constitutional amendments. It's also interesting how candidates are ordered.

The candidates are never ordered with the two major parties at the top. The same is true in every state where I've lived. As far as constitutional amendments - were you around for the pregnant pig amendment back in 2000?

Karac:As an added bonus, put a serial number on each ballot and have the people working the polls give each voter a copy of his choices. Then to count up the votes, just make an excel spreadsheet, add 1's under which candidate they voted for, then just do a sum at the bottom. Then put a copy up on the web so people can see that their vote was actually counted instead of being lost or hanging chadded.

We specifically do not do that to prevent voter intimidation.

If someone was using force to make you vote a certain way, they could check your serial number.

Z-clipped:Why wouldn't whatever system you use scale up to our population? I mean, more people = more counters, right? Is it that much cheaper to build specialized equipment, specialized software, and (apparently) do incompetent specialized printing instead of using a photocopier and devoting some government workers to counting for one day a year

Sorry, counting ballots is not in their contract. You want to violate their workers rights?

devek:Karac:As an added bonus, put a serial number on each ballot and have the people working the polls give each voter a copy of his choices. Then to count up the votes, just make an excel spreadsheet, add 1's under which candidate they voted for, then just do a sum at the bottom. Then put a copy up on the web so people can see that their vote was actually counted instead of being lost or hanging chadded.

We specifically do not do that to prevent voter intimidation.

If someone was using force to make you vote a certain way, they could check your serial number.

Yep.

What we need is the following:

1. Election day is a national work holiday2. Paper ballots3. When you vote, you don't get a sticker, you get your finger dipped in ink.4. Votes are tallied by hand by three independent teams5. Any statistically significant variance in these tallies triggers a recount and federal investigation.6. Election tampering becomes a federal crime punishable by life imprisonment or death.

I know we do a lot less voting up here, certainly not for the array of elected positions you folks have in some places down there... but how farking hard is it to do a visual count if the technology fails? All of this sketchy-as-shiat ballot duplication garbage sounds like an effort to make the process as complicated and prone to failure as possible.

Between the 2000 election farkup and stories like this, I wonder how long it will be until people just give up and toss what little agency the system allows them into the hands of a smooth-talking sociopath.

PlatinumDragon:Between the 2000 election farkup and stories like this, I wonder how long it will be until people just give up and toss what little agency the system allows them into the hands of a smooth-talking sociopath.

Monkeyhouse Zendo:1. Election day is a national work holiday2. Paper ballots3. When you vote, you don't get a sticker, you get your finger dipped in ink.4. Votes are tallied by hand by three independent teams5. Any statistically significant variance in these tallies triggers a recount and federal investigation.6. Election tampering becomes a federal crime punishable by life imprisonment or death.

Except for number 6 which is blatant bluster, this sounds pretty good. Bonus points if we can construct the ballots so the candidates' names aren't visible to the vote counters. Whatever we do, the move towards electronic voting is dead wrong, especially as long as people who've been proven incompetent and/or willing to cheat are in charge of the procurement/design/distribution/tallying.

I'd even be in favor of a jury-duty-style draft to get people in for the counting.

indylaw:doyner: indylaw: That article sucks. Apparently the error has something to do with merit retention votes for circuit and appellate judges - who are almost always retained because most citizens don't know the difference. But they don't say what the error is, and how they plan to "correct" it. Unless the information is buried in there and tl;dr.

I just filled out my Florida absentee ballot and...wow. It is full of seriously sketchy constitutional amendments. It's also interesting how candidates are ordered.

The candidates are never ordered with the two major parties at the top. The same is true in every state where I've lived. As far as constitutional amendments - were you around for the pregnant pig amendment back in 2000?

The candidates are all listed Republican then Dem at the top of each category.

If anyone here lives in Florida, be sure to research the amendments before going to vote. The way they are worded on the ballot is confusing, to say the least.

I can't understand what the flaw is from the article either. I think it's saying that they're printed in such a way that the Scantron machine won't record certain votes, but then how is essentially photo-copying them going to help? I feel they're going to end up hand counting them anyway. Just crossing my fingers that this is the only controversy we have this election.

I also agree with Monkeyhouse Zendo except for number six. Agree voter fraud should have a severe penalty though. Maybe 10 years?