L.A. Kings & Jeff Carter. A Match Made In…

The Jeff Carter saga has been an interesting one in Columbus. After he signed a long-term, cap friendly, career contract with the team that drafted him in 2003, 11th overall, he was shown little brotherly love from the Philadelphia Flyers. In that respect, his career path has paralleled that of his friend and fellow former Flyer, Mike Richards, although the latter, as we know, had the good fortune of coming here to L.A.

That is also where the similarities end.

While Mike Richards was upset at the trade but stepped up, accepted it and has been, in all respects that we as fans have seen, a pleasure to have on the ice and off, Jeff Carter went into hibernation, would not talk with anyone (I believe for weeks) and it finally took a trip by Rick Nash and (if I recall correctly) either Scotty Arniel (who has since been fired) and/or Scott Howson to finally come out of the cupboard under the stairs and accept the fact Philadelphia just didn’t love him anymore.

Fast forward to today.

Jeff Carter has only played 30 games with the Blue Jackets. He was injured from the word “go” early in the season and on January 9 suffered another injury – a separated shoulder. He is currently week to week. Still, in those 30 games, he has 10 goals and 7 assists. He is also a -9.

Now, after giving up Jakub Voracek, a 1st and a 3rd in the last draft (if there was more, it’s not coming to me), the Columbus Blue Jackets are ready to trade Jeff Carter…and it’s no bullshit. I have read different reports about what Columbus may want and with the understanding none of us really know for certain, the vague and speculative consensus seems to be a 1st round draft pick and a roster player, possibly a younger one who can step in now. Vague enough for you? Such are the nature of rumors.

First, let’s look at his contract. He signed an 11 year, $58 million extension after last season. His annual cap hit is $5.2 million but his actual salary steadily goes up from its current $6 million to $7 million in both 2015-2016 and 2016-2017. From there, it drops back down like a roller coaster that just crossed the top of the bell curve. That is a lot of coin to commit to a player. Add a full NTC from 2012-2013 through 2014-2015 and then a modified one and…

Is Jeff Carter worth it?

Do you like goals?

Because that is what Jeff Carter brings. Lots of them.

His career stats scream sniper and he is in his prime. He is a young 27 (just turned on January 1, 2012 – no Islands were dry that day and the night before, I bet), he is big (6’3″), fast, and a prototypical goal scorer who has a physical presence but, most importantly, can bury the puck when it is on his stick. He has led the Flyers in goals before his trade and I believe for multiple seasons. He can score 30 without breaking a sweat. 40 is well within his reach and skill set.

That is the good news.

The bad news, apart from his contract, is he has a reputation as a whining prima donna (he didn’t do himself any favors with his pouting after the trade) who loves to party (in fairness, so do Surly & I but we would knock it off for $58 million) and suddenly has injury problems.

First, we got Mike Richards. Second line center problem solved. Second, I got sour on Carter after his antics in Columbus. Know this – the fact Jeff Carter does not want to play in Columbus is a big reason he is on the trading block. Third, Drew Doughty was signed to an 8 year, $56 million dollar contract. The last issue is relevant because, with the looming CBA, I am concerned what may happen to the cap and whether taking on a long-term contract like that of Carter is wise at this time.

That brings us to what one of our readers, Anonymoustruth, wrote as a comment in a recent article…for what it’s worth, I am starting to suspect said reader may actually be Jeff Carter and this is his way of crying for help and a trade to L.A.

THESE TOP LINE FORWARDS ARE INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY RARE TO BE AVAILABLE. I think everyone is missing that. Do you want to go another five, ten years without a top line goal scorer for the Kings? Because if you look at whats happened with Columbus, Calgary, and the Kings, thats whats going to happen.

and…

My point is, people always find reasons not to take that jump, not to acquire a player, because there’s risks involved. You always find a reason not to, and what happens? Calgary wastes Jarome Iginla’s entire career with them in a sense because they couldnt bring in one single top line center to play with him the entire time. Columbus has squandered Rick Nash’s potential, and their franchise’s potential, by never bringing anyone in.

and…

Jeff Carter, unlike even Zach Parise, is a prototypical thoroughbred sniper with speed and size (Parise is undersized, like Mike Richards), skill, and an amazing shot, and “40 goal potential” gets thrown around a lot, I mean any 25 goal scorer under the perfect circumstances could have a 40 goal year, people were saying Penner had 40 goal potential last season, but when I say Carter has 40 goal potential, that’s real 40 goal potential, every season. I don’t mean he could score 40 goals some season, I mean he should, every season he’s healthy.

Carter is a 40 goal sniper, in his prime, with a 5.25 million cap hit, and the Blue Jackets want to get rid of him as reported by TSN themselves. All they want back, even what they floated through TSN, is a 1st round pick and a young roster player, which would be less than the Kings gave up for Penner, and which means they would probably settle for a 2nd and a young roster player, or just a 1st round pick, by the deadline.

Even taking their highest asking price at face value…

A 1st round pick and Andrei Loktionov, or a 1st round pick and Thomas Hickey, or a 1st round pick and Kyle Clifford, maybe throw in a 3rd… all assets that are currently not helping the Kings on the ice one bit… and you get back a 40 goal guy in his prime with all the tools?

That’s a deal the Kings have to make. Is it perfect? No. But is it better than going another five or ten years without a real goal scorer to play with Kopitar? I cant see how anyone could say no. It’s better. It’s the best option the Kings have.

See what I mean? He has to be Jeff Carter, right? Who else speaks the blasphemy of proclaiming themselves greater than Zach Parise (pbuh)?

I kid our reader. He makes some good points. But here is mine.

There is a huge difference between Loktionov and a 1st vs. Hickey and a 1st vs. Clifford and a 1st. The difference is if Loktionov were traded, Jacob would cry. If Hickey were traded, I would laugh. If Clifford were traded, Jacob would cut your heart out with a spoon for suggesting it and blame you for eternity and a week.

Remember also that although we do have a 1st round pick in the coming draft (at least I think we do), I know we don’t have a 2nd round pick (Mike Richards trade) and I am uncertain about a 3rd because I thought we gave it up in the Penner trade but it was conditional. Someone I am sure will look that up. The point is giving up a 1st round pick in this draft (which is rumored to be deep) may leave us with nothing until round 3 or possibly round 4. That too is a big deal.

70 replies

Try to trade prospects. I’d be willing to part with Loktionov and Vey, and most of our forward prospects (not too many of them, and not Toffoli) to land someone like Carter. I’d rather keep Stoll or Loktionov (one or the other really) to keep the 3C covered, but we have Lewis and Richardson both able to play C, so we can work it out.

I love Nic Deslauriers, so I hope it isn’t him. Yes, I agree, a first rounder is too much, and I doubt they’d take Penner. So that leaves us where? JJ and Richardson + a 3rd? I’m definitely not a “trade JJ, he sucks” guy, especially down the stretch (DL wouldn’t, I believe, either). I’ve stated my position on goalies, so I feel that position won’t be included. I see Richardson, Vey, and Campbell, plus a third and fourth. That wouldn’t hurt us too much, although I really like Vey. But would CBJ go for it? They’ve mismanaged themselves to this point and position, so why not? I don’t dislike Richardson, in fact, I respect his ethic. I just see him as expendable to Dean.

If the Kings were going to trade for Carter salary would need to go the other way. The Kings won’t have room under the cap for his salary, even if Gagne goes on LTIR. I would have to assume a salary dump goes the other way (i.e. Penner or Stoll). So a first, stoll or penner, and a prospect (maybe hickey, muzzin, etc)? Honestly, I would consider it, but hey I’m not running the show. Carter is a pure goal scorer, he’s of the same mold as a guy like James Neal. Look at Neal, pretty good on Dallas, then he gets a chance to play with Malkin now he’s a star. I feel like Carter and Kopitar would mutually benefit from each other. I know people say his attitude is bad and etc, but I honestly think he would be happy to play here, and he would be an asset to the team.

I don’t see the Kings getting rid of Stoll because of face-off and defensive capabilities, veteran leadership, blah blah blah. I doubt Muzzin, he has too much upside. But I’d rather Muzzin than Deslauriers. Someone of value must go back (unless you are Sam the Disaster McMaster). A rostrer d-man wont be included, as that is priority #1. Yeah, maybe Muzzin over Campbell, Richardson, Vey, and a third and or fourth.

Having watched almost every game he’s played while he was here in Philly, I would not be in favor of a trade . There is a reason he’s one of the most unpopular Flyers ever to wear the orange and black. To be fair to him, he is a very talented winger with a wicked shot who can dominate a game when he wants to (Problem is those are few and far between and he has a tendancy tlo ‘disappear’ alot. ) he’s an outstanding faceoff guy, one of the best ever on the Flyers and a pretty solid defensive player (thakns to John Stevens, who got him as Phantom in the AHL and trained him to use his size , reach and stick, which he worked on with Carter when he tgook over as head coach of th Fllyers)

But where you see 35 goals, 1 see the 50 that were there for taking. Carter High and wide was a nickname a lot of Flyers bloggers used for him He’s lazy and will take shifts and entire games off. He is not strong in the neutrual zone and glides alolt. He never uses his size, and is not physical. He is not good under pressure and a terrible, terrible playoff perfomer (and I’m not talking just on the lack of points 21 in 47 games, but you just didn’t notice when he was out there)

Unless you were there, commenting on what he did or did not do in the locker room or off ice on his own doesn’t belong in the conversation.
I was pulling hard for the trade last year (2010) when it was rumored Bobby Ryan was being dealt.

A friend of mine who is a huge Carter fan was very upset at the trade (and trade rumors that have bee naround for the last three years) claiming Carter never got a fair shake here. He argued that ‘how would you like to play behind Mike Richards?’
He went on to say that Richards plays his balls off every shift, oozes leaderhip, takes out or fights anybody who looks crooked at oine of his teammates, hits hard, gets his points off hustle and heart and drive. He claimed where I saw Carter ‘gliding ‘ and not working up a sweat, that was due to carter being that good a skater, he didn’t need to sweat. Same with what I saw as lack fo work ethic. We still do not agree on it.
And he’s not matured or grown as he could have. He and Richards came into the league together and you could see Richard growing each year and thriving under pressure, the more pressure the better he showed. I never saw that in Carter.
The worse goal in recent Flyers history was in game 6 against the hawks in the finals 2010. Game tied, one minute left, Richards sets up Carter with a wicked perfect pass and Carter had the GWG on his stick and shot right into Niemie’s Insignia.
Some players, like Gagne for example, just thrive in pressure and playoffs, scoring clutch goals and setting them up, making you notice their number.
Carter nrever has.
Can he change? Possibly. But the tantrum he threw when yhe was traded, not speaking to his new GM and making Howson, umberger and co drive to his vacation home in Sea Isle NJ to hold his hand was the last straw for me.
And asking to be traded after playing only a handful of games with the BJ’s…really?

Oh and he hates playing wing, did it under protest in Philly bcaues Lavvy gave him no choice last year. He wanted the Briere -Leino-Hartness line intact and desinated ( a mistake IMO) Richards to be ‘my checking line center, offense won’t be a priority for him’ So all that was left was for him to by the winger for Giroux. Carter didn’t ike it and there was a loud argument that some of the reporters heard, but he stayed there all year. . It also (IMO) was bad for Giroux because Carter is the Allen Iverson of the NHL, never plasses. G’s goals and scoring chances dropped.
I guess a tiger can change his stripes…but in Carter’s case, I dont’ see it.
IF the Kings are gonig to dangle picks, prospecgs and players, get a legitimate good scoring winger, not an immature prima donna.

Almost every goal scorer gets accused of taking shifts off, and being inconsistent. It comes with the territory. People only think thats a knock on a certain player when they dont pay enough attention to the rest of the league.

Moreover, what 40-50 goal scorer who doesn’t take shifts off would you prefer the Kings acquire, instead?

I dont know how many times I have to go over this. Is Carter perfect? No. The high and wide thing is BS, he has a great shot and anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what theyre talking about, but some of the other concerns you brought up are true.

But, again, it doesnt matter. THERE IS NO ONE ELSE. No one else of his quality is available, or even close. He’s inconsistent, what goalscorer isn’t. The fact you think he misses the net too much just shows youre being overcritical and dont pay enough attention to the rest of the league to have proper context. Because accuracy is all about context. If a shooter hits the net 99/100 times, thats only good accuracy if you dont think all the other shooters hit it 100/100 times.

Jeff Carter has fantastic accuracy. You and those bloggers saw him miss the net 30% of the time or whatever it is, and misconstrued it as poor accuracy, when really everyone else misses it 40% (for example).

Its the same thing with his not reaching full potential. “I dont like my 40 goal scorer because he could have had 50.” Guess what, I saw Jarome Iginla miss a chance the other night, too, I guess hes shit.

This conversation has gone into ridiculous territory. You are actually complaining that “I dont like how my 40 goal scorer does it.”

Hes a 40 goal scorer. Period. It doesnt matter how he does it. Ask Sharks fans how they feel about Patrick Marleau, who, coming from someone who watches the Sharks a lot, is not as good as Carter, and has a steeper cap hit.

Ask Capitals fans how they feel about Ovechkin nowadays. Or Semin. Gaborik is playing great this year but ask Rangers fans how they felt last year. Even this year, if you watched 24/7, Tortorella was not happy about Gaborik’s play. What about Ilya Kovalchuk? Henrik Zetterberg has been criticized of coasting the last few seasons in Detroit, started the year horribly. Toronto fans have been complaining about Phil Kessel for years. Ask Sharks fans about Dany Heatley.

Chris Stewart in St Louis has really struggled. Bobby Ryan and Ryan Getzlaf have had tough seasons in Anaheim.

What you’re doing is showing a lack of context. You dont realize that all but like five goal scorers, who are all untouchable, in the NHL take shifts off.

You know what happens when you play every shift 100%? Look at Ovechkin. His body is worn down. He cant play at the same level anymore. Look at your own team, even. What happened to Dustin Brown’s physical edge?

Its a long season, you have to pace yourself. Especially if youre an elite goal scorer playing against the biggest and baddest NHL dmen on the other teams, and theyre targeting you.

Thats all Ill say. Ive said it too many times already and its a waste of my time if no one is listening. When it comes to top goalscorers, you cant be picky. As Ive said with Carter, his warts are actually pretty small compared to most. Hes the full package with speed, size, hands, shot, you even said his defense is good, hes been very healthy except for some fluke injuries this year that should pass, hes got a great cap hit… The only bad things you can say is that he was immature at times as a young star in Philadelphia (which whose to say he hasnt outgrown by now, anyway), he didnt like being traded from the team he signed a lifetime contract with to Columbus out of nowhere (who would react well to that), and his contract is long. And he paces himself. So do 90% of top goal scorers.

Really, thats a pretty sweet deal overall. But the realize that, you have to have the context. To realize how good a deal Carter is, you have to realize how bad all the other options are. I think thats what youre missing, what most of you are missing. Peace.

Well said I completely agree. It’s funny how Kings fans throw Carter and his 40 goal potential out the window when we are the worst team in the league in goals for and are spending the cap and are expecting to win NOW. Show me the list of snipers lining up to sign here and I will personally tell Carter to fuck off. The truth is Gaborik, Richards, Kovalchuck didn’t want to sign here so where do we get off picking and choosing? His cap hit is awesome for his potential, yes the length of the term is scary, but so would have been Kovalchucks if he choose to sign here. So in short I say trade for him, offer Stoll and a 1st rounder and if they don’t want that then do Loktionov and a 1st. I don’t think we will miss his 0 goals and 4 assists anyways.

I would trade Scurderi and Voynov together. The Jackets would be all over that. Their back end is not strong. Our D is good enough with DD, JJ, Mitchell, Greene, Martinez. Bring up Hickey give him a few games. I would Trade Scurderi, Voynov, and Stoll. We clear more cap. Keep Loki 3rd line Center. Voynov, and Scurderi. Our back end has depth. I have faith in Drewiske too.

Scuderi is the most unappreciated DL signing, and without him, a 40 goal scorer does not help…….we may have a player that could fit that mold in a year or 3, but Scuds play night in and night out is what gave Quick his great season so far, and our PK it’s high rating

Voyvov is just starting to show his potential….he’s playing better than JJ did at this age, and very well could be a better player for us in the future….looking at our D-prospects there isn’t going to be another Voynov unless we draft him in the next few years. Muzzin could be a beast, but does not possess what Voynov has….offensive instincts through the roof, and the ability to play larger than his body.

Trading either Scuds or Voynov would be a huge mistake for this and next seasons playoff run….

Columbus does not want Hickey…..they traded away Russell who had many similar characteristics; ( Smaller and Mobile )
for a less talented d-man with more size ( Nikitin ) They have some young d-men coming, but many need a now established guy.

I don’t know how many 1st line centermen are available, now or in the summer, but, Johnasson is their future 1st line center hands down, and maybe a year away, so their defence and their goaltending are the area’s of upgrade they need going forward.

My offers were just to make the point that even if you had to meet Columbus’ asking price at face value, it would be a good deal. The truth is, Columbus wants to get rid of him, and would probably give him to anyone that would take the contract.

What’s my price? How about free. Or most likely at most, something to the tune of Oscar Moller and a 3rd. Thats more likely than any of my proposals. And I have zero doubts that would be the steal of the decade for the Kings. You do that deal. Its Jeff Carter, a top line sniper, the absence of which on the Kings has been the bane of their existence for a long time.

Howson gave up a lot to get Carter and I doubt if Moller and a 3rd wouild get you Carter. And the Kings are not the only team on the hunt for a center that have a second round pick next year to throw in the mix, along with a plyer or prospect.
Howson won’t trade him unless he gets something viable in return.
And doesn’t having 4 long terms deals to the tune of around 26 million handcuff the Kings a bit?

The problem is you are basing this on what Columbus gave up, and what other teams need. Im basing it off the latest and greatest information, specific to Carter. Thats where the disconnect is happening between my correct suggestion and you thinking it is incorrect.

Most NHL teams dont care about winning first, they are not interested in big contracts. Teams like Toronto that would be interested in Carter arent because Brian Burke feels obligated to make a philosophical stand against big contracts.

Basically, as Ive said, this is straight from the likes of Darren Dreger and articles Ive read, Carter isnt happy in Columbus, he wants out, Columbus wants him out… they just want to get out from what for them has turned out to be a mistake while they still can.

What they gave up for him has little to do with it. How many other teams need a player like Jeff Carter has nothing to do with it, either. The Phoenix Coyotes could use Jeff Carter, 90% of teams could use more goals, doesnt mean they will make a play for him. Most teams arent in win now mode, and dont want to spend the money necessary to actually be good. I dont know if this is a newflash to you, but most NHL fans care about other things more than winning.

So what comes out from all this information is that Columbus wants to get rid of Carter while they still can, but not many teams are interested, which is why something like Moller and a 3rd could probably get you Carter even though it seems illogical to an outsider.

I understand about Columbus and their frustrations, I read alot of hockey articles (just read two out of Columbus about the Carter situation) and I realize that Carter has been a problem for them since the day he was traded. I get that the contract is a long one and for some teams, that is a problem

Maybe the probem I have is thatI’ve seen too much of Carter and most Kings fans haven’t. I’m not basing my thoughts on the stats from NHL.com or the Career stats page for Carter. I’ve seen him play for six years and not mature as he should have. He does have an attitude problem (which a lot of the Blue Jackets related artciles cite have been ongoing) at times when he doesn’t get his way.

If Carter could be had for as little as you indicated, that’s a risk you take. and it is risk,given his lack of showing up i nthe playoffs.
But what if they want more? How much would you sacrifice?
I really hoped for his sake ,the trade would have woken him up some, and he’d gone to Columbus witha postive attitude and embraced his new team.
Acting like five year old and throwing a tantrum was a wrong way to go and it showed again how he’s immature.
Can he change? maybe… But he’s not a kid, he’s 27 and he’s yet to show that he’s the elite player some peg him to be. He doens’t show up in crticial need situations and was a consitent poor playoff performer.
IF the Kings do acquire him, I hope he realizes how forntuate he is and he changes. He is a very skilled player when he wants to be, maybe on a new team, and given his winning the lottery in a way, he might change his stripes…but six years is a long time for me to get over, esp. when I saw him as a no show in dire playoff situations.

Hey Deirdre….. all I can say as a Kings fan is…. ‘bravo for you’. And I mean that. A very wise man that I’ve heard speak always says that you need evidence.

You have it!! That’s what it’s about. Even myself living back east, I’ve heard bits and pieces from neutral announcers about Carter. But certainly not enough to back it up the way you can.
Nonetheless, every time someone is floating around who can score goals, half the fans think that you have to give up whatever it is, and you’re gonna get this ‘goal sage’ (whatever that means) and then we’re gonna win the SC.

You backed up your information w what you saw on the ice!! Well done.

Oh, and by the way, does that info surprise me? No, it doesn’t. And that doesn’t mean I don’t think that he can’t score goals. I know he can. Look at the stats. But thats not enough to do something so risky.

But what were getting into now is “what if they dont want this guy? What if they want a 3rd & a 7th, not just a 3rd? What if this?”

I cant tell you what would happen for every possible scenario. Thats not the point.

The point, and the bottom line, is that Jeff Carter is available for a very discounted asking price. He is not happy in Columbus, and Columbus is not happy with him, and rather than be stuck with an expensive player who is not happy in Columbus for the next 10 years, Columbus just wants to get rid of him, cut their losses, while they still cant.

As a result, like I said, Carter is available for a very discounted asking price.

Thats the bottom line. Do I know whether Columbus would want Moller or some other mid-tier Kings prospect? No. The point is he IS available, and he is available for much cheaper than players of that calibre are usually available for as a result of the circumstances.

And therefore, a good GM would be able to figure out a beneficial trade. WIthout talking to Columbus, I cant give you the exact deal, only the assurance that Carter is available for cheap, and the Kings could definitely get him if they wanted to, and for a good deal.

Also what’s with all this Kyle Clifford love? The guy is a 3rd line mucker with no talent. I know he had a good stretch of like, what, 10 games, but since then he hasnt been anything more than a 3rd line mucker.

And why? Just watch him. His size and decent hockey sense are his only assets, along with a good attitude (I know a lot of minor league hockey players with good attitudes, too. You need talent in the NHL). His hands suck. He’s not a playmaker. Speed is average not great, but skating is not…

Hes just not talented. I dont know if Kings fans think hes Ryane Clowe or Milan Lucic or something, but theyre forgetting those guys have hands in addition to their size. Those guys have finesse skill in addition to muscle.

And Loktionov, hes a prospect. He could turn into 2nd line player, thats best case for him, and even in his best case hes still not as good as Carter. And right now hes showing that his playmaking game doesnt translate so well to the NHL, not when youre undersized and get knocked off the puck.

Anyway, it shouldnt even come to trading those guys, if those are the guys Dean wants to keep. The Kings have enough prospect depth that they could find someone to put in a deal that they were okay with losing.

Even Oscar Moller and a 1st round pick, for Jeff Carter, you do that.

And I know the Kings dont have a 2nd round pick next year. So what? So next year isnt going to be your best draft year of all time without a pick in the first 2 rounds. Its win now mode. Those two picks helped get you Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, both very successful 1st round picks themselves, both in their primes so you dont have to wait five years for them. The fact the Kings dont have a 2nd next year is just another one of those reasons why you dont take the leap, when really its not that big of a deal. The Kings have a deep prospect pool, theyve kept their pick in most other drafts, what they dont have is a Jeff Carter. Lets stop making excuses and trade for the quality player.

Same goes for the Drew Doughty contract, and Mike Richards. So the Kings have three big contracts now… so what? Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook = 6 for Chicago. I didnt see them not re-sign Seabrook or Sharp because of “cap uncertainty.” I mean come on. San Jose Sharks have Thornton, Marleau, Havlat, Pavelski + Clowe = over 7M, Burns, Boyle, that’s also 6. Oh, and they still have plenty of cap room.

The Kings are still well behind. Kopitar, Mike Richards, Drew Doughty, and Jack Johnson sort of (but Pavelski, Bolland, Hjalmarsson, are all close to that range and I didnt count them individually).

Even with Jack Johnson, that would be four big contracts to the other teams six. Jeff Carter would be five. They’re still okay, still six million ahead of the other teams in big contract commitment.

Also, the most important point! Dean Lombardi attempted to sign Brad Richards to a monster deal after dealing for Mike Richards (and knowing he would be signing Doughty). So if Brad Richards is a good addition even with the contract commitments already on the team, Jeff Carter is even better.

Again, its just another reason not to do it. You think “we should keep that space open, we might need it someday after the new CBA, we might need it to add someone,” and yet you never do because youre always saving it for someone better.

Anonym…. you said “Hes just not talented. I dont know if Kings fans think hes Ryane Clowe or Milan Lucic or something, but theyre forgetting those guys have hands in addition to their size. Those guys have finesse skill in addition to muscle.”

Don’t forget…. he was drafted by DL. DL seems to love those guys who put out the effort, play north to south, and don’t have very good hands. For reference see: Richardson, Brad…..Lewis, Trevor….. Hunter, Trent

Lombardi has an ace up his sleeve, and that is Mike Richards. If anybody could give Lombardi a good read on Cater’s frame of mind, and which Jeff Carter the Kings would be committing to, I think it would be Mike Richards.

As well, Richards would immediately become Carter’s conscience; no way Carter is gonna loaf in front of Richards. Carter may be a prima donna but that means pride, and pride means effort when correctly challenged.

Yes, I think Richards would be able and willing to subtly give Lombardi some guidance, and yes I think Richards would be honest if Carter was not in a healthy frame of mind. It could well be that Carter would onyl flourish on one team: the team that has Richards, too.

Price? I still think Columbus would be best suited to take more bodies of intermediate skill, players either having reached a level of competence or, as with a prospect having as-yet unrealized potential. Their justification is rebuilding; they are out of the playoffs. It would be harder to find a one-for-one swap with Carter, and the Jackets need to spread the talent across positions in hopes that one of their returns will develop into a great player with increased ice time. That means Kyle Clifford, to me, and maybe Drewiske and a third rounder.

I do not know Columbus’ needs, so I am guessing that they would want a forward and a D-man, but we could offer Clifford and Drewiske or whoever is behind Muzzin, or maybe Zatkoff or Jones if they need a prospect goalie.

Bottom line impact to the line-up is an even trade of Clifford for Carter (duh) and we lose some unused depth in our 8th defenseman, a position at which there is a logjam right now anyway.

Plus, Carter is a bastard in a tough game; he would take zero shit from the Ryan Keslers and Milan Lucics of the league.

Size, hands, toughness, affordable over the long term. Hurt now, and un-motivated. The motivation comes back the instant he gets the phone call, is my bet. As far as the shoulder, that makes me nervous, except that it fits the exact package Lombardi ususally goes after; recently injured, head case, once-diagnosed-sky-high but now-questionable potential. It’s a gimme for Das Dinglebarn.

My impression is based on the playoff run when they went to the Finals. I wasn’t looking at the guy like I look at the Kings, just as a hockey fan, but I remember him being very physical around the net, using his stick to antagonize players, and being a scoring threat. I will say I was not looking at his numbers or other stats, so it is completely a subjective opinion.

Could be wrong, but I just felt like he was a Hartnell light with more goals.

Yeah, essentially you’re around middle ground on it which is fine….. no judgment on my part in that.
But as you probably saw below, I agree w Quisp that the questions about his attitude plus the structure of the contract don’t sit well with me.

With Penner, he rather flunked out last year, worked out intensely in preseason and still hasn’t done it this year. No problem… he’s likely (most certainly) gone.
If that were Carter (i.e. if he disappoints), then what? Then you Really have a problem. Who you gonna trade him to at that point?

I personally do not like going for players when there is something rather heavy floating around them. With Gaborik it was only his durability. There was nothing about him being a flake, a bad teammate etc.
The buzz in Philly (look at Deirdre’s post…. she evidently has Evidence, and states it clearly…. which most of us don’t have).

To top it off, like I said below, my pal pointed out that the separated shoulder can end up being an issue. It was big time for Ziggy Palfy. Why take a risk like that on a Ten year contract? Seems foolish to me. That would be like DL admitting, ‘hey, I’m pretty good at drafting dmen, spectacular at drafting goalies, but I haven’t a clue what the hell to do to find a forward who can score. I got really lucky on Jonathan Cheechoo. So, let’s just grab Carter….. and if it doesn’t work out I’ll let the next GM worry about it’.

I really can’t blame him for not being happy in Columbus. He got screwed. Signs a long term contract with the Flyers ( with a no trade clause ), and then gets traded to Columbus. And the contract is still valid. I’d be freaking pissed too.

He was +27 in his last season in Philly. 12 shorthanded career goals. So he does play defense (if he wants to). If I were DL I’d be talking to Mike Richards about Jeff. There’s nothing better than some insider info.

Here’s my take on the trades. Richards got traded cause Mr.Snider wanted to have Captain A-hole Pronger running the show. Carter got traded cause he was Mike’s BFF and Snider wanted to sign Bryzgalov to yet another silly long term contract. It was supposed to be like the Bruins duo of Timmy and Big Z.

There’s a huge difference between playing in LA and playing in Columbus. Carter got the rough end of that stick. Lombardi traded for Penner. Carter is a much better player than Penner. If the Bjs are looking to just get rid of Carter, he should at least be looked at. But if names like Bernier, Johson, Voynov come into the conversation DL should just say no thank you and that would be that.
I’m not saying DL must go after Carter. He should be an option though. The Flyers signed him for 10 plus years because they wanted to build a winning team. Richards and Carter were supposed to be an integral part of that team. And then one ended up in LA, the other in Columbus.

I don’t mind his low numbers because he falls into the same category that I’ve been claiming all Kings players fall into. His numbers were outstanding till he ended up on the Blue Jackets. Then they nosed dived off the face of the earth.

Could he help the Kings? No!

He just seperated his shoulder, and if he couldn’t improve his numbers on a team that has a crappy plan offensively, how is he gonna improve those numbers with the Kings, when all the players here have nosed dived at the same time?

Once the Kings fix their problems within the system that all the Kings play, someone like Carter would just nose dive with the rest of them, and just be another underachiever collecting a pay check.

I would be sad if the Kings traded Loktionov. The main issue, though, is that the Kings would have to send a big contract back — and be sure that Gagne is done for the year — in order to make the numbers work. To me, that means Jarret Stoll (since Brown, Kopitar, Williams and Richards aren’t going anywhere and I can’t imagine Columbus would take Penner). Columbus might want Jack Johnson. I think that would have a high likelihood of back-firing on the Kings (dealing JJ, I mean).

I could see Stoll plus Bernier. That would be sad, also. The thing we don’t know is just how toxic Carter and his bad attitude and his huge contract really are. I tend to think it’s like Heatley. Someone will step up and everyone else will curse their scruples that they didn’t deal for him when they had the chance.

Columbus is in a bad position. They have a player who doesn’t want to play there, who has a manageable cap hit but an 11 year contract and is suddenly injury prone and is currently injured. There are a limited number of teams who will be interested in that. They will have a floor under which they will not go for Carter and the trade may not happen before the deadline but rather in the offseason. If I am Lombardi, I don’t do it now. Stoll and Penner’s contract is coming off the books and I press hard for Parise in the offseason because (unless he goes to a contender before the deadline) I see him testing free agency. If I don’t get Zach, then I start to look at someone like Carter if he is still available. One thing – I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that a player on IR could not be traded while on IR. Maybe that is LTIR.

This is true but Gagne hasn’t even been medically cleared to stand up quickly yet.

It’s a factor, but do you just stand pat because he might suddenly get healthy? It could happen, it could bite you in the ass, but if come trade deadline it’s still looking really bad for Gagne then you have to either take the risk or trade extra salary away, as in dumping Penner for picks along with making your move for someone who may actually contribute.

You can’t because I never said he was a good bet to be healthy. I believe I said that I hoped he would play about 65 games. Obviously I was wrong in that estimation but my excitement was for his play, which you were drooling over two months ago. So really your “I told you so” to me just cancels out the one I already gave you.

Quisp right here has said KEY #1: The thing we don’t know is just how toxic Carter and his bad attitude and his huge contract really are.

Those two things may be inextricably linked. What IF his attitude is bad…. if he loafs, takes shifts off? And you Have to factor in that this is Los Angeles. There is way less pressure from fans, media etc. So if he had a proclivity for that sort of thing in Philly….. Good Luck in LA!! Then you have the contract that you can essentially do nothing with. Or….. you can also resign Penner and have them play together as the LOL line (Lots of Loafing line).

KEY #2: The only person on this entire thread to point this out was Dominick. But I’m gonna go further with it: HE HAS A
SEPARATED SHOULDER.

A good friend of mine reminded me that that became the end of Ziggy Palfy’s days in Los Angeles. Anyone remember that.
So, summed up….. pretty bad idea.

A separated shoulder can mean all kinds of things as far as future ability. The injury label is very broad, covers many areas and types.

I know this because I personally had a grade 4 separation of the humeric process when I was doing stunts; there are only 4 grades and 4 is the worst. They used it in the movie, too, crashing off a skateboard over Malibu Canyon road (intentional) and finding a submerged boulder while diving head first (unintentional), until the boulder spun me around from the impact sending me feet first down the side. I doubt whether Carter, even in hockey, could have generated the kind of force and focused that force to a pinpoint area of the body like I did, so his is not gonna be a grade 4.

My collarbone was completely freed from the shoulder “joint”, having been torn from the tissue that connects it to the little finger that sticks up from the shoulder blade (humeric process) and the rest of the joint. I am not a doctor, so the description is probably awkward, but basically it is important to note that there is no ball and socket in the shoulder; it is the oddest joint in the body comprised of three bones meeting amidst muscle and tendon and cartilage.

Anyway, the point is that you can “separate” the shoulder in many ways, injuring many of the different tissues and causing many different levels of severity.

A grade one is a detectable gap, a grade 4 is complete tearing. I recovered fully, was in a “sling” for 4 weeks (was supposed to be 6) and had no weakness, no loss of range, no increase in likelihood of recurrence, etc., and mine was the worst case scenario. If I had been a hockey player, it would have probably meant 8 weeks before I could take contact with risk, 3 months before contact without risk. (Recall Justin Williams with the shoulder wrap last year-end) Grades 1 and 2 are a matter of from a few weeks to a month, but again it all depends on the exact areas and severity of damage. Also, a separation does not necessarily create a “trick shoulder,” like the people whose shoulder pops out repeatedly; is just heals and with rehab there is full recovery.

Fare nough. I still hate the idea of the trade…. but still Love your little moniker photo thing there, even though I forgot what it’s from.

I remember that Scribe nailed it a few weeks ago.
Doesn’t matter. It makes me laugh. And I’m all for stuff that makes me laugh.

Trading for Penner didn’t make me smile (even though that night on NBCSC…. the channel formerly known as Versus … cue squiggle) they said that he’d light it up playing in LA. Well, +1 for me, -1 for Versus.

But trading for Carter would make me ….. cry? Maybe so. Even if they got him for Free, I still wouldn’t be keen on getting that contract, and don’t trust his makeup as a person, based on things I’ve heard.

Listen to Steven Stamkos speak. Now That Guy… he’s serious and committed and very very professional. Look at Alfredsson (same), there are loads of guys out there who just carry themselves very differently. Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi are both consummate pros.

Actually, now that I think about it, I might have described my injury wrong. I had a grade 4 ac separation, ac meaning achromial (spelling?) process. Whatever comes off the shoulder blade and was supposed to be connected at the collarbone, wasn’t. Slept on a futon, drove myself to the hospital next morning. Fun!

The thing that I’d be nervous about is how the Flyers were dangling Carter out there for what seemed like at least a year. I know the price was high and eventually Columbus ponied up but it seemed like there wasnt a lot of interest for a guy who can put the puck in the net. Why would Philly want to get rid of a guy who they had just resigned to a pretty cap friendly deal in comparison to his goal scoring ability? They were deep at center and with the emergence of Giroux he may have been redundant but like its been said, I think the guy must be a douche. That and his reported lack of defense would make him the kind of player DL doesnt like, a surfer. Which is probably what he’d be if he comes to Manhattan beach.

There are some positives, his cap hit will seem pretty cheap in a few years and there is that motivation of him wanting to win the big trophy with his buddy.
It is also possible that he is deliberately playing like shit so they will move him but he is really capable of playing much better hockey.

It would be killer if we got him, Sutter got in his shit and he reset. Putting up 35+, being responsible on D, and getting the tattoo, but we hoped the same thing about Penner.

The other thing is his no trade. You trade for him and he’s yours, forever.

It does remind me of Heatley. Same MO. San Jose took a risk on a guy who was damaged goods and at the time got him for what seemed like a steal. He put up a lot of goals but every fucking year burned them in the playoffs with his non existent defense until they had finally had enough and got the fuck rid of him.

Hey Matthew, I just made some comments on the thread just above yours wrt Carter. Would be curious as to your take on this idea to trade for Carter.

Seems like you’re getting as fed up with Lombardi’s manner of piecing this team together as I am.
Don’t get me wrong. I think he’s done a vastly better job in many ways then so many before him, but I’m as of the moment finding the heavily weighted system of drafting dmen, goalies, and centers. Oh I just found out that Nick Shore is a center. Can’t wait for another center.

One huge reason imo that the team has had so many problems scoring is that beyond a skilled player like Moller, DL seems to have an anathema towards drafting any winger who ‘isn’t supposedly difficult to play against and extremely conscious defensively’ but who actually has some soft hands and skating ability. Just one guy like that (I don’t mention Toffoli as he may be still two years away), and it could have helped one of our play making centers, where they’d actually have somebody who could take advantage of their play making abilities.

If you look at capgeek you’ll see that the Kings have $14.18 million to spend right now for next year. We can trade for Carter (lokti or Stoll and a 1st) and still have enough left over to sign Parise as our cap would increase to just shy of $15 mill cause of Lokti coming off. If we can get Parise for around 6.5 million /year we still have enough left over to re-sign Mitchell. If Parise wants a little more than we could trade Richardson for a draft pick and that would free up enough to sign both Parise and Mitchell. Our roster could be:

Jeff Carter is an asshole. I’m no saying that because I don’t like his game or his head or his hair or whatever. Its because he is in fact an asshole. Players don’t like playing with him, staff doesn’t like him, on and off the ice he’s a dick, so you shouldn’t like him. Also, not sure if this has been mentioned but his no trade clause kicks in in the summer, so if anyone were to trade for his unlikeable ass, you’d be stuck with Mr. Fucky Fuckerson for the foreseeable future. Alliteration is underrated.

Back from work trip so coming late to the party on this reply: yes DL did say that about Richards but remember Richards was a professional, sucked it up and was available to talk to the media and importantly to his team soon after the trade was announced. Was he hurting? Yeah sure but he acted professionally.

Carter on the other hand went to ground and didn’t even get his agent to release a statement for days. CBJs had to send The Delegation to him to make him feel important.

The man is a lesion, a bacterial infection, a sign of imminent death. He’s a spirochete just waiting to swim up our collective urethra. When he’s traded it’s not reported in The Hockey News but in the files of the CDC. Me no want Carter. Fuck him! Fuck him in and up his egotistical ass!

It’s fairly obvious that the only trade-able assets that we would feel “comfortable” giving up are the very guys we would feel “UN-comfortable” giving up — Bernier, Lokti, AM, Voynov, Clifford, and the like, all of them young, all of them getting better, all of them with attractive contracts.

This analysis is like casting runes. Each time DL works a deal it looks good on paper, but somehow turns sour. Penner was a good trade when it was made and with the information at our disposal. Picking up Gags as a free agent was a source of worry — worry that proved all too justified — but was still an intelligent effort to rev up our offense. Not re-signing Zus half-crazed me with fear and regret. But given the stock we already had on the shelves, were we gonna pay $2.5-mil/year for a fourth-line center?

Lombardi is not some brainless spastic just fiddly-fucking with the Kings’ dough and cap-space. On the whole I think he’s done a terrific job.

Our team is better than its record — despite the reduction in SIZE.

But I’m not gonna hold my breath to get Parise or Nash or anyone else whose name has been tossed around. Two summers ago we did everything but lick Kovalschmuck’s ass to get him. Thank God, we failed. Last summer we joined the Race for Brad Richards — and, in a sense, thank God we didn’t get HIM.