tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post4551237628409543946..comments2014-05-09T13:25:02.936-05:00Comments on The Atheist Experience™: Because it's all just so depressing, that's whyMartinnoreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-17714884585476525012010-01-19T02:43:06.140-06:002010-01-19T02:43:06.140-06:00Small Business owners are largely forgotten. Thats...Small Business owners are largely forgotten. Thats why I only focus on them. I have experience several members of my family file bankruptcy due to small business failures. I also I suffered through 2 destroyed businesses due to failure however, in my failings I have learned some of the secrets to success. (Who can say they know it all?)<br />What I like about small business owners is that they are not afraid to take huge risks and lay it all on the line. But, I agree they do need a lot of help with their marketing. I think having them go the social media and email route is not only the least expensive but its also the most effective. Thanks for the stats!<br />www.onlineuniversalwork.comdavidbaerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00458677655234546468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-30826268557754679542009-09-04T17:56:11.818-05:002009-09-04T17:56:11.818-05:00OK Thomas. I will respect you letting it slide. Bu...OK Thomas. I will respect you letting it slide. But I have to add this. And let me preface, that I only add it because I only happened on this randomly, and it was really appropriate to our discussion. This quote from one of Martin&#39;s older blogs on this site:<br /><br />&quot;If a former atheist suddenly became a theist, and did so on the basis of lousy arguments, that would not undermine the views of rational atheism. It would simply mean we had a stupid ex-atheist out there.)&quot;<br /><br />I would say this is a reiteration of what I&#39;m also saying. I understand you don&#39;t agree, and again, I&#39;m not posting this to say &quot;See, Martin thinks so too!&quot; I just found it funny that I stumbled on the quote in the midst of our discussion on the topic.traciehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13375806982865487478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-7403102113801699002009-09-04T07:58:50.179-05:002009-09-04T07:58:50.179-05:00Sorry ing, I have a lot to do in the next few days...Sorry ing, I have a lot to do in the next few days and I know that if I make just one response, it will turn into several more.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-62610225550320772122009-09-03T20:35:30.417-05:002009-09-03T20:35:30.417-05:00I hate to stirr the chamber pot but; just imagine ...I hate to stirr the chamber pot but; just imagine how much smarter Frances Collins would be if he were not a christian. It&#39;s not just &quot;one thing&quot; he&#39;s wrong about, it&#39;s an entire model of knowledge and a bias on how the universe works. <br /><br />For example, I had a physiology professor who was a mormon creatonist (and brought it up in class). He was fine in his field of cardiology and I will defer to him as an authority on the subject...but any research he does I have to look more closely at due to knowing that he has a tendency to conformation bias. Him being &quot;wrong about one thing&quot; actually impacts how I&#39;d view his research and his work. A psychologist who believes in demons or body thetans can&#39;t be the best psychologist they could be due to those beliefs. A holocaust denier can&#39;t be the best historian he could be if he was more honest in his research. A politician can&#39;t be the best public servant if he&#39;s a racist. Francis Collins can&#39;t be the best scientist due to his beliefs that are based on AMAZINGLY stupid reasons. Hell, I saw an UNFROZEN WATER FALL IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER!, Doesn&#39;t that by Collin&#39;s standards prove that Buddhism is correct!?Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-79103966498003941312009-09-03T16:12:10.376-05:002009-09-03T16:12:10.376-05:00I think I am going to back down on this. I don&#39...I think I am going to back down on this. I don&#39;t know if there is much more to say than &quot;nuh uh&quot;. :)<br /><br />Thanks for the discussion.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21404449283508603442009-09-03T12:43:57.115-05:002009-09-03T12:43:57.115-05:00&gt;I feel that this line of reasoning makes it ea...&gt;I feel that this line of reasoning makes it easy to forget that someone can have bad ideas on one subject and still be an intelligent person.<br /><br />I don’t see that as different than my statement;<br /><br />&gt;&gt; &quot;can he be intelligent and be a Christian?&quot; I admit, yes. But can he be an intelligent Christian? No.<br /><br />I agree he can be intelligent in some areas and unintelligent in others. Having “bad ideas” is not a sign of intelligence. If I’m capable of intelligent thought, but I don’t use that intelligence, am I “intelligent”? How do I differentiate the “intelligence” level of a person who can think and doesn’t, from that of a person who can’t think? In the area where I have “bad ideas” it’s fair to say I’m not intelligent. I can be intelligent when it comes to my job, but very stupid in regard to my personal relationships, can I not?<br /><br />To say I’m an “intelligent person” is meaningless. If I don’t use my intellect in some situations, then I am absolutely not “intelligent” in those areas. It doesn’t matter if I’m intelligent in other areas. An idiot savant is an exaggerated example of someone able to process problems at a genius level in limited areas, but useless in working out issues in most other areas. Is that an idiot who is sometimes intelligent or an “intelligent person” who is sometimes an idiot?<br /><br />Sometimes he’s intelligent. Sometimes he’s not. An intelligent person would be a person who can use their intellect. But if they’re NOT using it, then they’re not “being intelligent” regardless of whether they are, at other times, able to exercise intellect.<br /><br />&gt;If you disagree with someone, then you probably feel they have bad ideas about something.<br /><br />Here, I would say you couldn’t be more wrong. I disagree with people often where I have great respect and regard for their logic and ideas.<br /><br />&gt;As for Francis Collins, I would describe him as an intelligent person, who is probably wrong about one thing.<br /><br />Is he “wrong” about it—or stupid about it? He doesn’t use his intellect in evaluating his religion. His reasons for being wrong are that he’s not thinking properly. That’s unintelligent thought—or, stupidity. He’s not just wrong. He’s wrong for demonstrably fallacious reasons. That’s stupidity, not just “wrong.”traciehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13375806982865487478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-21682924189507225282009-09-03T09:05:44.402-05:002009-09-03T09:05:44.402-05:00Tracy, I don&#39;t like to discuss semantics, but ...Tracy, I don&#39;t like to discuss semantics, but I wouldn&#39;t use intelligent in the way you do either. (Personally, I don&#39;t know if I have ever heard it used in your way.)<br /><br />I have a problem with your definition because you are not addressing one&#39;s actions, or ideas, but are instead implying that they are lacking in mental capacity. I feel that this line of reasoning makes it easy to forget that someone can have bad ideas on one subject and still be an intelligent person. <br /><br />If you disagree with someone, then you probably feel they have bad ideas about something. So, the notion that the word is relative to the context seems to imply that everybody who disagrees with you is an idiot.<br /><br />As for Francis Collins, I would describe him as an intelligent person, who is probably wrong about one thing. I don&#39;t care if we&#39;re talking about science, religion, or Guitar Hero, Francis Collins is a smart guy who is probably wrong about one thing.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-88013011697671948482009-09-03T07:46:01.634-05:002009-09-03T07:46:01.634-05:00&gt;I think you&#39;re using an odd definition of ...&gt;I think you&#39;re using an odd definition of the word intelligent. These people, when they say that a politician is intelligent, are not meaning &quot;he has good ideas which are good for the country and that&#39;s why I fear him&quot;. Many of them mean &quot;he has terrible ideas that are bad for the country, and he is smart enough to get them enacted&quot;.<br /><br />I guess my hangup is on _me_ labeling the guy &quot;intelligent&quot; if I think his policies are not wise.<br /><br />However, I thought more about your comments later, and I&#39;m able to say this person probably did mean something along the lines of what you&#39;re trying to describe. So, in the context of the letter writer, I&#39;m sure you have a point and are likely on target about what the writer _meant_. But I&#39;d have to say I wouldn&#39;t express it that way myself.<br /><br />I think a great example of how I would view it would be like Francis Collins. I can&#39;t say that in some areas, Collins is not intelligent. But the idea of &quot;can he be intelligent and be a Christian?&quot; I admit, yes. But can he be an intelligent Christian? No.<br /><br />If I knew only about Collins in the context of his Christianity and not his record in science, I would judge him to be unintelligent--as much as any apologist. So, if all I knew of Collins was his apologetics, calling him &quot;intellgent&quot; would never be an option for me.<br /><br />With this letter writer, to call the President &quot;intelligent&quot; where the only context can be evaluating his policies--if I think they&#39;re stupid and destructive, I&#39;d call him an &quot;idiot.&quot;<br /><br />But I do see your point that a person could perceive the presentation to be good and label that &quot;intelligent&quot; (although I would consider that to be included under the &quot;persuasive&quot; and &quot;articulate&quot; labels the writer also used, and not the &quot;intelligence&quot; label he used--seemingly separately. That actually still baffles me.<br /><br />But I concede your point that it&#39;s undeniable he used &quot;intelligent&quot; in a way I would not have used it or interpreted it.traciehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13375806982865487478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-42513120629362322792009-09-02T23:02:45.775-05:002009-09-02T23:02:45.775-05:00I&#39;d argue that when those people say &#39;Coun...I&#39;d argue that when those people say &#39;Country&#39; they mean &quot;those of us who share my tax bracket&quot;Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-50212254388263949112009-09-02T15:02:22.646-05:002009-09-02T15:02:22.646-05:00I think you&#39;re using an odd definition of the ...I think you&#39;re using an odd definition of the word intelligent. These people, when they say that a politician is intelligent, are not meaning &quot;he has good ideas which are good for the country and that&#39;s why I fear him&quot;. Many of them mean &quot;he has terrible ideas that are bad for the country, and he is smart enough to get them enacted&quot;.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-58897524607866027732009-09-02T14:43:48.898-05:002009-09-02T14:43:48.898-05:00&gt;So would you say that there are no intelligent...&gt;So would you say that there are no intelligent people working for companies that produce homeopathic medicine? How about the catholic church? It is possible for an, otherwise, intelligent person to get swept up in a bad ideology.<br /><br />If we were talking about him in the context in which he&#39;s believing or promoting unintelligent things, I&#39;m going to feel comfortable calling this person an idiot.<br /><br />In other words, it wouldn&#39;t matter if Obama were a brilliant physicist. If he&#39;s making bad decisions based on bad ideas as president, and I&#39;m writing a letter to the editor about his actions in his role as president, I&#39;m going to point to his &quot;bad&quot; policy ideas, note why they&#39;re dumb, and say the guy is an idiot.<br /><br />This letter writer, I assume, does not know Obama personally, and is calling him &quot;intelligent&quot; based on what is popularly known about him--in his role as a politician. Most of us have no expertise of his competency of math or science or German history. Is he acting intelligently as president? This writer seems to think so. I.E., He is an &quot;Intelligent President&quot;--and that scares me.<br /><br />&gt;I also see the possibility of an intelligent, but dishonest person who does not have your interests at heart. For example, someone who is in the pocket of special interest groups, such as Haliburton, or the Pharmaceutical Industry.<br /><br />He doesn&#39;t have to be in high places. I had a young relative who was a brilliant car thief. His school insisted he was above average &quot;intelligence.&quot; I said, &quot;No, he&#39;s an idiot.&quot;<br /><br />I understand he can score high in problem solving. And I get that as a label for &quot;intelligence&quot;--but anyone who cannot see the overall benefit to the individual in the benefit to society, who cannot apply standard ethics and moral models is not what I consider bright.<br /><br />I get what you&#39;re saying--they&#39;re intelligent in a very specialized or limited capacity--they aren&#39;t able to see a big picture--and in some microcosm where only tiny interests and concerns matter, they&#39;re acting in a way that benefits them. But on a larger scale, they&#39;re acting stupidly when judged as a social animal which seems void of the importance of social welfare and how that ultimately impacts the individual.<br /><br />It&#39;s like someone making billions of dollars with a factory that dumps toxins into the water--never really recognizing he&#39;s living on a planet where--oh yeah, he drinks that same water.<br /><br />That&#39;s what some people consider as intelligence, but I call it idiotic.traciehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13375806982865487478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-25868440832480711472009-09-02T14:10:33.446-05:002009-09-02T14:10:33.446-05:00I could see that.I could see that.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-14020166407986120112009-09-02T13:38:57.566-05:002009-09-02T13:38:57.566-05:00If he or she were just effective at achieving thei...If he or she were just effective at achieving their own goals I&#39;d say they were an effective ruler. Leader implies that you actually care about the group as a whole or the groups goals and are leading them rather than just being a demagogue. For example I&#39;d say W was a poor leader but a good ruler.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-20605205413085897742009-09-02T09:47:18.248-05:002009-09-02T09:47:18.248-05:00Ing, I think I see your point. I think it is debat...Ing, I think I see your point. I think it is debatable whether an &quot;effective leader&quot; is defined by how he or she helps those being led, or simply by how effective he or she is at achieving his or her goals, but, your definition seems reasonable.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-48795264495198284342009-09-02T09:30:56.629-05:002009-09-02T09:30:56.629-05:00@ Thomas
I agree that intelligent is not the defi...@ Thomas<br /><br />I agree that intelligent is not the definer of morality, but I was more focused on the &quot;Good leader&quot; part. A Good leader would be definition have scruples. In fact I&#39;d say good leader would require both a) charisma and b) scruples. If they just had A they&#39;d be a conman. If they had just B they&#39;d be an activist not a leader. <br />An Intelligent Good Leader (combined three characteristics) is not going to intentionally damage his patrons (defined as create a net loss).<br /><br />If Obama were &quot;bad&quot; he could be unintelligent yet a good leader (honestly working for what he thought were good ideas and able to convince people/implement his ideas)<br />or intelligent and a con man (intentionally implementing bad ideas) if he were both then he would not intentionally make a bad decision. <br /><br />Likewise I would say that Bush was both a bad leader and unintelligent since he did stupid decisions and refused to be corrected on those mistakes. Even when shown to be wrong he would stand behind his decision not out of malace but stuborness, thus he was a unintelligent bad leader.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-78783776544773246752009-09-02T08:41:49.928-05:002009-09-02T08:41:49.928-05:00Thomas said...
I am jealous.
Don&#39;t be - losin...Thomas said...<br /><i>I am jealous.</i><br /><br />Don&#39;t be - losing a fingertip isn&#39;t that much fun :-)<br /><br /><br /><i>My only concern is, how do you keep prices down? I, personally, wouldn&#39;t mind if the copay were large enough to hurt a little, so long as it was a related to the service provided. My son woke up one night with a fever of 103.<br /></i><br /><br />I&#39;m not sure how the prices are kept down. Some of it is due to the government bargaining the prices down for pharmaceuticals. Some of may be due to less litigation.<br />As I said most people pay 1.5% levy on your income (a basic insurance fee I guess). If you earn over 73K (individual) or 146K (couple) you have to take out private health insurance as well or face an additional 1% levy.<br /><br />I guess the government kicks in the rest. Mind you the hospitals are underfunded here - if you want elective surgery and you can&#39;t afford to pay in the private system, you end up waiting a while. But still better than the US by any measure.<br /><br /><i><br />Because all the doctor&#39;s offices were closed, and we did not want to let this wait until morning, we took him to the emergency room. The doctor did a few tests, and may have given him some aspirin. He then discharged him.<br /><br />I had insurance, but they refused to pay any of it, because their policy toward ER visits is that, if you live through it, then it wasn&#39;t really an emergency. It came out to around $1,000. I could see a 20% copay, if it is necessary to prevent people from abusing the system, but I would love to see us go to &quot;socialized medicine&quot;, if it means getting insurance from someone who isn&#39;t going to try to screw me over the first time something goes wrong.<br /></i><br /><br />Hospital emergency rooms are free in Aus - very nice backup. I certainly never worry about health affordability/access like you unfortunate people have to...ColBatGuanohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08388302283945241744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-59901788588554474202009-09-02T08:03:30.925-05:002009-09-02T08:03:30.925-05:00&quot;I believe I agree with Ing. I&#39;m unlikely...&quot;I believe I agree with Ing. I&#39;m unlikely to call a person with bad ideas &quot;intelligent.&quot;&quot;<br /><br />1. <br />So would you say that there are no intelligent people working for companies that produce homeopathic medicine? How about the catholic church? It is possible for an, otherwise, intelligent person to get swept up in a bad ideology.<br /><br />2. <br />I also see the possibility of an intelligent, but dishonest person who does not have your interests at heart. For example, someone who is in the pocket of special interest groups, such as Haliburton, or the Pharmaceutical Industry.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-8891202449813821672009-09-02T07:49:35.854-05:002009-09-02T07:49:35.854-05:00@ ColBatGuano
I am jealous. My only concern is, ho...@ ColBatGuano<br />I am jealous. My only concern is, how do you keep prices down? I, personally, wouldn&#39;t mind if the copay were large enough to hurt a little, so long as it was a related to the service provided. My son woke up one night with a fever of 103.<br /><br />Because all the doctor&#39;s offices were closed, and we did not want to let this wait until morning, we took him to the emergency room. The doctor did a few tests, and may have given him some aspirin. He then discharged him.<br /><br />I had insurance, but they refused to pay any of it, because their policy toward ER visits is that, if you live through it, then it wasn&#39;t really an emergency. It came out to around $1,000. I could see a 20% copay, if it is necessary to prevent people from abusing the system, but I would love to see us go to &quot;socialized medicine&quot;, if it means getting insurance from someone who isn&#39;t going to try to screw me over the first time something goes wrong.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-63618677577161540012009-09-02T07:46:04.906-05:002009-09-02T07:46:04.906-05:00I believe I agree with Ing. I&#39;m unlikely to ca...I believe I agree with Ing. I&#39;m unlikely to call a person with bad ideas &quot;intelligent.&quot;traciehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13375806982865487478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-4260005284171081922009-09-02T07:34:16.254-05:002009-09-02T07:34:16.254-05:00@ Ing
&quot;The problem is that the above would in...@ Ing<br />&quot;The problem is that the above would indicate that his ideas are either not bad, or at least not so fundamentally idiotically founded that they can&#39;t be changed or negotiated.&quot;<br /><br />In a perfect world, the voters would be intelligent and informed enough to assure that that is the case. Here in the US, however, an intelligent politician will spend most of his time trying to determine what beer to drink at the baseball game that he is attending only to prove to Americans that he is &quot;one of us&quot;.<br /><br />I think Rove was a good example of a brilliant salesman who had a crappy product, and the only thing I can fault him for was not having the right employer. (Well, that and the evil shit he did).<br /><br />Now, if the word &quot;integrity&quot; were thrown into the original quote, I would have to concede.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-87178471510059613712009-09-02T05:01:07.026-05:002009-09-02T05:01:07.026-05:00The hospital system in Australia is pretty good wh...The hospital system in Australia is pretty good when you have an emergency.<br /><br />I cut my fingertip off and went straight into the emergency ward, and then onto surgery to have it reattached. Spent 3 or 4 days in hospital, but the attachment didn&#39;t work. A week later I went back for the removal and tidy up. <br /><br />Following that was weekly hand therapy sessions to get used to the new finger. <br /><br />Total cost for me? <br /><br />$0 *<br /><br />Suck that up America!<br /><br />Should I also tell you about our two (7-8 week) premature children? Total cost for them was about $20 - $40<br /><br />* We actually pay around a 1.5% Medicare levy, and most people pay an Ambulance subscription (which gives free travel).ColBatGuanohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08388302283945241744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-77645013187034291942009-09-01T18:59:28.142-05:002009-09-01T18:59:28.142-05:00&quot;intelligent, articulate, persuasive and an e...&quot;intelligent, articulate, persuasive and an effective leader&quot;<br /><br />The problem is that the above would indicate that his ideas are either not bad, or at least not so fundamentally idiotically founded that they can&#39;t be changed or negotiated.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-10844847364798250002009-09-01T13:02:54.466-05:002009-09-01T13:02:54.466-05:00Tracie, I have to defend the statement you quoted ...Tracie, I have to defend the statement you quoted from the statesman. I haven&#39;t read the article and cannot answer to anything else he says, but I remember a few years ago thinking that Carl Rove (or Karl Rove) is just too damned good at his job.<br /><br />I see the president&#39;s job as marketing. He does not write the bills, and the only say he has is that he can talk about (or advertise) the bill, veto, or sign treaties (ok, that gives him power to push some policies through the back door).<br /><br />So, if I had a choice between a president who has terrible ideas and is very good at promoting them, or one who has terrible ideas and barely has the charisma needed to hail a cab, then I would choose the later. (The more impotent of two evils).<br /><br />I think the GOP is beginning to see Obama as the guy with bad ideas and a brilliant marketing savvy. I disagree strongly, but I can see how the statement that he is &quot;intelligent, articulate, persuasive and an effective leader&quot; (with terrible ideas) can be frightening.Thomashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14299046445235601258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-76990236750061280432009-09-01T08:01:49.611-05:002009-09-01T08:01:49.611-05:00The anti-intellectual movement ie &quot;fear of th...The anti-intellectual movement ie &quot;fear of thought&quot; is THE most dangerous threat to American ideals.Inghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13024689390434414829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33241741.post-57112761381047832752009-09-01T06:43:01.497-05:002009-09-01T06:43:01.497-05:00Just one more. I can&#39;t fathom someone literall...Just one more. I can&#39;t fathom someone literally writing in to say they fear and loathe our president for being intelligent, articulate, persuasive and an effective leader--then further saying, basically that these features in no way represent me or the majority of my peers.<br /><br />It&#39;s insane.<br /><br />He sums up my prior posts. I couldn&#39;t have wished for a more shining example of what I was describing. He&#39;s the poster boy for the cult of ignorance.traciehhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13375806982865487478noreply@blogger.com