- Not always vagrants, but there are some homeless people without a computer project. They keep an eye on the place, they wash dishes, he helps whenever [speaker] asks for help even for hours. Distinguish productive people from unproductive. Sometimes they're high.

- Not always vagrants, but there are some homeless people without a computer project. They keep an eye on the place, they wash dishes, he helps whenever [speaker] asks for help even for hours. Distinguish productive people from unproductive. Sometimes they're high.

−

- Visitor from another hackerspace, he says a lot of them have this problem. Kicking people out doesn't work because you alienate, you don't know what their potential contribution is, so he suggests tokenization. Earn a token so that you can be in the space after your second observation night.

+

+

- Visitor from another hackerspace Oren Beck, he says a lot of them have this problem. Kicking people out doesn't work because you alienate, you don't know what their potential contribution is, so he suggests tokenization. Earn a token so that you can be in the space after your second observation night.

- Vigorous objection to this suggestion, some people bring stuff here during the day and leave for the night.

- Vigorous objection to this suggestion, some people bring stuff here during the day and leave for the night.

+

- Incident last tuesday, tickets to people who commit violations? "Karma violation pad" barefaced lying, negative, rudeness, being high... How many citations before they get kicked out? We need to decide that.

- Incident last tuesday, tickets to people who commit violations? "Karma violation pad" barefaced lying, negative, rudeness, being high... How many citations before they get kicked out? We need to decide that.

+

- Sponsored by a member if they're good?

- Sponsored by a member if they're good?

+

- Distinguishes abusive crashing from helpful crashing.

- Distinguishes abusive crashing from helpful crashing.

+

- Visitor again: must have people joyously onboard. You can't piss off strangers, you want to convert them instead. That's from many years of experience with these kinds of organization.

- Visitor again: must have people joyously onboard. You can't piss off strangers, you want to convert them instead. That's from many years of experience with these kinds of organization.

+

- Sleepers deserve defense, basic human right to a roof over your head. [Speaker] thinks the problem is people who think they're hacking but break stuff and make a mess, leaving a trail of destruction. Tours should include what hacking means, remind them it means maker space.

- Sleepers deserve defense, basic human right to a roof over your head. [Speaker] thinks the problem is people who think they're hacking but break stuff and make a mess, leaving a trail of destruction. Tours should include what hacking means, remind them it means maker space.

−

- Can we break up the current entrenched group, to reset the system? Random people every night is one thing, same group of people is another.

+

+

- Can we break up the current entrenched group, to reset the system? Random people every night is one thing, same group of people is another.

+

- The notoriety of Noisebridge is creating this issue.

- The notoriety of Noisebridge is creating this issue.

+

- Reporter came to describe sleeping at noisebridge, that creates the wrong impression.

- Reporter came to describe sleeping at noisebridge, that creates the wrong impression.

−

- More productive to focus on the idea of abusing the space than sleeping in the space. Let's talk about how it has been and can be abused, different types. "Noisecafe" for example, just for wifi and electricity is a level of abuse. Compounded when a mess is left behind.

+

+

- More productive to focus on the idea of abusing the space than sleeping in the space. Let's talk about how it has been and can be abused, different types. "Noisecafe" for example, just for wifi and electricity is a level of abuse. Compounded when a mess is left behind. Theft, hard drugs.

+

+

- Infrastructure problem and community problem. How can we mend the community.

+

+

- Some people are just ill-informed about what the rules are, hard if someone gets kicked out because they don't understand the rules.

+

+

- Adam raises "Rooster brigade" this is on the wiki, you can use it to track people who are sleeping here. Photo and upload it, or name. That way we have the information to know that they're sleeping here. Page is being used, but the rules that's another story. Head counts, it's not a big deal (how many people are out cold) but genuine naps are hard to distinguish maybe. Data can help us understand the nature of the problem. Sleepers are the one making a mess or bringing drugs here. Fixing the sleeping issue might fix a lot of other problems.

+

+

- This problem is an ongoing problem for years, we have tried many things. Giving out resources to people, we've tried a lot. We have a developing chaos, anarchy in the bad sense, and people stop coming. Mailing list stuff, what happens in the space, scares people off. Maybe a noisebridge app? This is a growing idea, to improve community dynamics and unclog community plumbing system. better than just focusing on one specific problem like sleeping, we need a full system to cover this. We need to hack away our own dilemma!

+

+

- Space oscillates, people oscillate, people are not always at their best, the same person can mistreat the space and also make it really great.

+

+

- App should have request tracker. Anonymous? This could help with oscillation. Bug tracker is not userfriendly. Php wiki is not friendly to new users.

+

+

- Valentines Day 2012, proposed "Occupy our hearts" to Occupy SF. We're anarchists, we need to rely on each other for mutual aid. We have to take care of each other before we can save the world. So everyone in Occupy was asked to take in homeless occupiers, system of safehousing with strict rules. [Tabled as bigger discussion, full session]. Can prevent occupation of this space for the wrong reasons.

+

+

- Homes for Hackers project, spin off of homes not jails. That could happen.

+

+

- "Beware the predator but watch for the human"

= Attendance =

= Attendance =

Latest revision as of 21:39, 6 August 2013

You should read the meeting instructions forthwith!
Don't forget to post the meeting notes to the wiki and e-mail the discussion list with a short summary.

- Not always vagrants, but there are some homeless people without a computer project. They keep an eye on the place, they wash dishes, he helps whenever [speaker] asks for help even for hours. Distinguish productive people from unproductive. Sometimes they're high.

- Visitor from another hackerspace Oren Beck, he says a lot of them have this problem. Kicking people out doesn't work because you alienate, you don't know what their potential contribution is, so he suggests tokenization. Earn a token so that you can be in the space after your second observation night.
- Another option, no personal items unless projects. No unrelated personal items, like bedrolls?

- Vigorous objection to this suggestion, some people bring stuff here during the day and leave for the night.

- Incident last tuesday, tickets to people who commit violations? "Karma violation pad" barefaced lying, negative, rudeness, being high... How many citations before they get kicked out? We need to decide that.

- Sponsored by a member if they're good?

- Distinguishes abusive crashing from helpful crashing.

- Visitor again: must have people joyously onboard. You can't piss off strangers, you want to convert them instead. That's from many years of experience with these kinds of organization.

- Sleepers deserve defense, basic human right to a roof over your head. [Speaker] thinks the problem is people who think they're hacking but break stuff and make a mess, leaving a trail of destruction. Tours should include what hacking means, remind them it means maker space.

- Can we break up the current entrenched group, to reset the system? Random people every night is one thing, same group of people is another.

- The notoriety of Noisebridge is creating this issue.

- Reporter came to describe sleeping at noisebridge, that creates the wrong impression.

- More productive to focus on the idea of abusing the space than sleeping in the space. Let's talk about how it has been and can be abused, different types. "Noisecafe" for example, just for wifi and electricity is a level of abuse. Compounded when a mess is left behind. Theft, hard drugs.

- Infrastructure problem and community problem. How can we mend the community.

- Some people are just ill-informed about what the rules are, hard if someone gets kicked out because they don't understand the rules.

- Adam raises "Rooster brigade" this is on the wiki, you can use it to track people who are sleeping here. Photo and upload it, or name. That way we have the information to know that they're sleeping here. Page is being used, but the rules that's another story. Head counts, it's not a big deal (how many people are out cold) but genuine naps are hard to distinguish maybe. Data can help us understand the nature of the problem. Sleepers are the one making a mess or bringing drugs here. Fixing the sleeping issue might fix a lot of other problems.

- This problem is an ongoing problem for years, we have tried many things. Giving out resources to people, we've tried a lot. We have a developing chaos, anarchy in the bad sense, and people stop coming. Mailing list stuff, what happens in the space, scares people off. Maybe a noisebridge app? This is a growing idea, to improve community dynamics and unclog community plumbing system. better than just focusing on one specific problem like sleeping, we need a full system to cover this. We need to hack away our own dilemma!

- Space oscillates, people oscillate, people are not always at their best, the same person can mistreat the space and also make it really great.

- App should have request tracker. Anonymous? This could help with oscillation. Bug tracker is not userfriendly. Php wiki is not friendly to new users.

- Valentines Day 2012, proposed "Occupy our hearts" to Occupy SF. We're anarchists, we need to rely on each other for mutual aid. We have to take care of each other before we can save the world. So everyone in Occupy was asked to take in homeless occupiers, system of safehousing with strict rules. [Tabled as bigger discussion, full session]. Can prevent occupation of this space for the wrong reasons.

- Homes for Hackers project, spin off of homes not jails. That could happen.