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If ATH/DEF are king... Topic

You are looking at a D1 zone team with three starters at 94 ATH and above. Four starters have 95+ defense. The teams I'm losing to routinely have 20 less points in ATH/DEF. My weaknesses seem to be on the offensive side of the ball (though my team FG% isn't too shabby), and IQ. And of course, I play zone...which could be the main problem.

Nevertheless, I'm dumbfounded by many of my losses. Shouldn't a team with such a great advantage in ATH/DEF be winning much more consistently? Perhaps I am undervaluing IQ and the zone disadvantage...

I've never posted something on the boards imploring the HD community for help, but I am now because this team is frustrating the bejeezus out of me. Any wisdom or insight would be greatly appreciated!

Running 3 guards in a zone is a recipe for disaster if they can't rebound. You also have pretty low shotblocking for a zone from your bigs. But the PG at SF is really what's killing you imo. That, and your IQ's obviously as you've stated.

EDIT: Just looked at some more box scores. See you start the SF on occasion. Really smells like it's because of the IQ's now that I look closer.

Sure, it's 41.5% against all opponents combined. But you have to look deeper at the games he's lost. Almost all have happened because of giving up too many offensive rebounds (-8 against IUPUI, -3 against Navy, -6 against Southern, -5 against Virginia, -9 against Temple!!!) or because of FG% allowed (53% against Richmond, 54% against Rhode Island, 47% against UMass) -- you're walking into most close-ish games with a significant rebounding disadvantage by playing a zone. Offensive rebounds happen in the zone, you can't prevent them totally. But with a more well rounded SF and bigs that can block shots at a steady rate (95+ SB), a lot of the holes in his defense can be plugged.

It's tough, because he has some very good players, particularly guards. But the zone isn't about having good guards, it's about having beef down low to combat the gaps in the defense that lead to offensive rebounds/easy layups.

Only loss that doesn't fit is the Dayton loss, and that one looks like a bad sim combined with terrible FT shooting discrepancy.

Your starters are great but the backups are not good for D1, which makes the team way too shallow. Any kind of foul problem on your end puts you in a terrible spot. Look at the games you lost, alot of them have a starter or two play alot less than their season avg.

Edit: On second look, the above statement of your starters playing alot less than your season avg in losses is not true. I thought your starters were avg 30min+ with 80s stamina and playing zone. Not sure why you aren't playing them more.

Sure, it's 41.5% against all opponents combined. But you have to look deeper at the games he's lost. Almost all have happened because of giving up too many offensive rebounds (-8 against IUPUI, -3 against Navy, -6 against Southern, -5 against Virginia, -9 against Temple!!!) or because of FG% allowed (53% against Richmond, 54% against Rhode Island, 47% against UMass) -- you're walking into most close-ish games with a significant rebounding disadvantage by playing a zone. Offensive rebounds happen in the zone, you can't prevent them totally. But with a more well rounded SF and bigs that can block shots at a steady rate (95+ SB), a lot of the holes in his defense can be plugged.

It's tough, because he has some very good players, particularly guards. But the zone isn't about having good guards, it's about having beef down low to combat the gaps in the defense that lead to offensive rebounds/easy layups.

Only loss that doesn't fit is the Dayton loss, and that one looks like a bad sim combined with terrible FT shooting discrepancy.

Great in-depth look, djp. Thanks. I definitely have been getting killed on the offensive boards some games, but as you mentioned, some of that just comes with the territory when playing zone. I hope to improve team rebounding (and SB) in the coming seasons, particularly at the SF position.

However, it still doesn't really add up for me. I've played zone at the D3 level for nearly 15 seasons now, and I generally always get beat on the offensive glass. But, I still consistently win games due to superior ATH/DEF...or so I thought.

You said in your analysis that I'm walking into "close-ish games" with a rebounding disadvantage. I think my lack of understanding comes from the fact that I don't feel the games I'm losing should even be "close-ish." I'm matching up 95+ ATH/DEF starters against 75 ATH/DEF starters. If ATH/DEF truly are king in HD as many claim around here, shouldn't I be killing it in those match ups? Seems like I should be fouling significantly less than my opponents and holding teams like UMass and Rhode Island to a lower FG%. Rebounding and shot blocking are important, sure, but my understanding was always that they are secondary to ATH/DEF (and SPD).

I have some more thoughts, and a response to tianyi...but gotta run for now. I'll post more later.