Just saw that email too. It says there will be a sound improvement over the III, hopefully most of the improvement will be due to the Jupitor caps which i paid extra for on my III. If that's the case, then I'm set. (tho something tells me there will be more to it than that.)

my Torii was built before Jupiter caps became a part of the equation... I was hoping the next gen Torii... would have "meters" on the front, controls on the front, and the connections on the back - too.

I sent Steve a note... begging for clarification and details... and that I started a thread on the subject. Maybe he will throw us a bone here..

I have been on the build waiting list for a couple of months now for the Torii MKIII and just noticed that my order was changed to the MK IV as was all the others on the list.

I did have a conversation with Steve early on and he indicated that I would be getting the upcoming changes. The only two he spoke of at that time were the Jupiter caps as standard and changing over to the black top plate. I was pretty happy about both of those so I didn't ask if there was going to be anything else. Hopefully Steve will chime in.

I also haven't seen any change in status for my order when many after me are almost to shipping on other products. I know the other products may be less involved to build but the Torii orders seem to have been stalled somewhat. Maybe that means more changes are in line? Is this part of the "fun"?

FYI For anyone else looking at this thread that is not on the Decware mailing list, Steve said the new Mark IV will cost several hundred $$ more than the III, but if you get your order in before he updates the site in a week or two, he'll let you have the IV for the current MKIII's price. Pretty cool.

Here is what I have done in the Torii MK IV. One side as pictured is completed and the amp is waiting for me to finish the other side. As you can see I've improved the layout a bit. Here are the changes made so far:

I have deleted the bias switch for the output tubes. It never did much in the MK III and is not needed in the MK IV.

I have increased the gain of the input stage by about 20% giving the amp more slam and tighter control

I have eliminated the adjustable bass dampening control, no longer need it with problematic speakers due to the next change.

In place of the adjustable bass dampening control I have created a re-constructive feedback circuit that improves clarity, detail, and definition at all frequencies. It is on a switch so that you can use it or not use it. (everyone will likely use it) This mod replaces the bypass caps that were on the cathode of the input stage. Those caps eliminated the naturally occurring local negative feedback in that tube. Instead of a bypass cap, I use the output transformer in series with a couple networks that float the output stage above ground slightly. The result is less phase angle distortion resulting in better transparency. This was an accident, that turned into another discovery. It's one of the cooler things that's happened in the past couple years and it will be fun to here peoples impressions of it as they get their MK III's updated.

The input switch is now centered behind the volume control.

The power switches are now rocker switches vs. toggle switches.

The chassis can now accommodate either a single volume control (as shown) or a volume control for each channel.

The chassis is now steel with our new textured black powder coat finish and weighs 6 pounds more than the aluminum it replaced.

Beeswax caps are now standard.

The treble control has been redone and now makes only a very slight adjustment to the treble above 5K, whereas before it was capable of cutting all the way down to 500 Hz. The result is a bit more air.

iF you order before the website is updated (soon I would suppose) it's the same price as the current III. Steve says he will honor that price until he launches the new web page. With the new page will be a new price. . .a larger price.

The LIST so far - Price IncreasesOK - Here's how it works. Whenever we come out with a new product, those people on our build sheet with standing orders are automatically upgraded to the new model at the old model price.

I am obligated to charge what 's listed on the web site, so until I have time to update the site, you can buy these new more expensive models at the current prices.

We are now finishing the CSP3. This new model will likely cost a few hundred bucks more. You can order a CSP2+ from the site now, and lock yourself into the old price. We are still running over 8 weeks, so you'll have plenty of time to discover the options it now comes with and modify your order if need be. Remember, we don't charge until the units are ready to ship, so you have some time to arrange funds.

The TORII MK III is days away from becoming the TORII MK IV and this is really big, because we've figured out how to make it sound even better if you can believe that! The new amp will come standard with beeswax caps and there will be a significant price increase. Get your TORII ordered now before I update the web site and save yourself a few hundred bucks minimum.

The Super Zen has been a great success, but became as good or better than the Zen Select, which was designed to be and upgraded version of the Regular Zen Triode. So we have also updated that with meters, and many internal improvements so that it is indeed a step up from the SuperZen as it should be. Again, if you want one, order the SE84ZS and you'll automatically be upgraded to the new model without the couple hundred dollar price increase!

The main thing is to get your orders in as soon as possible before I get the site pages updated. This will secure your position in the list and lock you in at the old price. I can answer questions about the changes and options by e-mail or phone once your order is placed. We can easily tweak your order to achieve the configurations you want so no need to panic about options. I'll work with each one of you individually.

Lord Soth, What Zu Audio speakers have you listened to and with which Decware Amps? Please give your impressions. I recently bought a Taboo MK III and a pair of Audeze cans. I ordered a pair of Zu "Souls" to pair with the Taboo plus the new CSP 3 ordered the day Steve sent his letter. I have to admit I am very close to ordering a Torii MK IV too.....what made you pull the trigger? Thanks, Mark.

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare

"We are still running over 8 weeks, so you'll have plenty of time to discover the options it now comes with and modify your order if need be. Remember, we don't charge until the units are ready to ship, so you have some time to arrange funds."

I don't know what the price or structure will be for the upgrade to a MK IV yet. I still have to decide how much I want to change on a MK III. I'll likely separate the mod into two or three parts. That's all I know right now.

I couldn't wipe a dirty little grin off my face tonight as I walked out of the listening room while the Torii MK IV simply kicked the crap out of a MK III.

Sadly this was not the case 24 hours ago after my second listen, (the first one fooled me). There was an incredible magic that the MK III had never even grazed before and now it might have to go away! There were issues with the bass and with it's usable power that would have killed it if not for spending all day in bed meditating on all the possible solutions. The solutions worked and tonight was all about tuning the values to achieve the desired result. Basically, solder, lift 40 lbs amp, hook up, play, unhook, lift, solder and repeat... 42 times so far. Remember this is actual listening room testing, not initial tuning in the bench rails.

Anyway, when you hear this mod you'll understand that no other amplifier in the world could ever sound like it, and I was desperate not to let that go, despite being in taboo territory once again with the circuit design. The experience was kind of like finding a chunk of gold in the ground that was too big to lift out.... too good to be true.

And since the MK III was getting bested by the Mystery Amp, this has the Mystery amp pretty nervous... well see what happens in the next amp wars.

I intend to pair up the Torii MK4 with a pair of Zu Soul Superflys (16 Ohms).

Nope, I have not heard this actual combination per se (i.e. with the Torii MK3).What I have read from the Zu website is that these speakers were designed to be paired with tube amps, i.e. the traditional low power and high Ohm type. So in theory, it should work. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I am simply relying on the GOOD reputation of both Zu and Decware.Will post impressions a couple of months from now when both the amp and the new speakers arrive.

As for what made me finally pull the trigger on the Torii MK4?Some months ago, I was ready to purchase the MK3.

That is because I came across numerous posts from owners of the MK3 stating that the sonics bested anything they have heard before, and those are $$$$ rich audiophiles who play with uber expensive low power WE300B SET amps.

Now given what a progressive company Decware is, I knew that it was a matter of time before the MK4 model would turn up.

I sure that an MK5 ... 6 and so on will eventually be produced.

But in the meantime, I trust Steve / Decware's audiophile ear. So anything that sounds as good or even better than an MK3 is a no-brainer, i.e. "must buy" audiophile item for me.

I've been on the build list now for the prior MKIII for about 9 weeks and I was getting concerned when it looked like there was no activity for any of the MKIII orders. Having heard about Steve's accident and model change brings that into focus somewhat. Waiting still sucks.

The new look with the black chassis really does it for me and that change I really applaud. Steve, given that I'm the highest on the build list for the MK IV does that mean that I will be getting the first one????

I couldn't help myself, been thinking of one for months, so price rise and new model is enough for me to jump in. Only hope the Mystery amp doesn't make sad, thinking I've gone for the wrong amp. Volume shouldn't be a problem, I'm thinking of getting Klipsch RF-7 II, at 101dB sensivity the Torii MKIV should have no problems driving them to loud volume, just hope I get some nice bass from those 10" woofers

Indeed, this is what the delay was about. Monday I plan to give the go ahead to start production on the MK IV amps, so if you're the first one on the list of upcoming Torii builds, then I guess you'll be getting the first one!

I was hoping to see the final specs and pricing on the Mystery amp first. I was holding out on the Torii MK IV until next year, but with the price increase and upgrades, I may just have to pull the trigger for the Torii before the website is updated. Talk about decisions.

Hey Steve....is there any way you can hold off on the price increase until after Decfest when you debut the Mystery Amp. That way guys like myself who are teetering between the Torii and the Mystery Amp will get a better idea of what we will want to buy.

A recent conflict is preventing me from coming, but I will be tuning in online.

was hoping to see the final specs and pricing on the Mystery amp first. I was holding out on the Torii MK IV until next year, but with the price increase and upgrades, I may just have to pull the trigger for the Torii before the website is updated. Talk about decisions.

Hey Steve....is there any way you can hold off on the price increase until after Decfest when you debut the Mystery Amp. That way guys like myself who are teetering between the Torii and the Mystery Amp will get a better idea of what we will want to buy.

A recent conflict is preventing me from coming, but I will be tuning in online.

Thanks,Dom

What you may not realize is that you can place your Torii Order now and secure the current price and your position in the list. If you decide to change the order to the Mystery amp before your Torii is built, we'll keep your place in line and build the Mystery amp instead. Alternately if you take delivery on the Torii and decide during the 30 day trial you would rather have the Mystery amp, we'll build you one and you can keep the Torii until the Mystery amp is delivered.

What you may not realize is that you can place your Torii Order now and secure the current price and your position in the list. If you decide to change the order to the Mystery amp before your Torii is built, we'll keep your place in line and build the Mystery amp instead. Alternately if you take delivery on the Torii and decide during the 30 day trial you would rather have the Mystery amp, we'll build you one and you can keep the Torii until the Mystery amp is delivered.

Does the "order queue" mentioned above apply to those with III's updating to 4's?