Big Red wrote:Man, I think the ADGO is the greatest club ever at putting on member tournaments! Way to go guys....

You can't be serious. The ADGO is like a freaking pyramid scheme. You might as well give me your money. I'll use it to host a member event or better yet I'll sponsor a tee sign. All the money that these fools bring in, you'd think they would use it to advance the sport instead of having a weekend kegger. Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive? Sure Fly Boy will get some exposure, but hasn't that happened already. What a waste of time and resources.

Big Red wrote:Man, I think the ADGO is the greatest club ever at putting on member tournaments! Way to go guys....

You can't be serious. The ADGO is like a freaking pyramid scheme. You might as well give me your money. I'll use it to host a member event or better yet I'll sponsor a tee sign. All the money that these fools bring in, you'd think they would use it to advance the sport instead of having a weekend kegger. Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive? Sure Fly Boy will get some exposure, but hasn't that happened already. What a waste of time and resources.

1. Not sure there is going to be any costs, food only if not member or vendor sponsored. No kegs, only food for members, cooked by members.

2. Trophies only - Side action at will.

3. Kelly has offered the ADGO this awesome facility that gives us the flexibility to offer more than one day of activities at basically no cost. Thank you Kelly!

4. Event promotes membership for bigger pool of resources to unite with local clubs to "blow it up".

Apparently someone hasnt played Flyboy before. And how the hell is organizing what is going to be the most fun disc golf weekend of the year a waste of time and resources? Some people just dont know how to have a good time Luckily there's gonna be about a hundred other people who arent retarded hanging out and having an awesome weekend

You can stay at home then. We'll certainly have a lot more fun without you and your attitude.

I'll be in Bowling Green so you wouldn't see me either way. I love the fact that you clowns can't handle a opinion or constructive criticism. I think I'll pay my dues to the CDGC, at least they have there priorities together and strive to improve disc golf in there state. I just think this effort is indulgent and wasteful. I'm not an ADGO member so I guess my opinion doesn't matter anyway. Good luck with your action, I'm sure it will be a blast, but still a waste.

I believe I can block seeing certain peoples' posts...I will utilize this function so that I don't have to continually read posts involving two brain cells colliding with one another...

Whatever scab. Because I don't conform all of the sudden I'm brainless. Grow a pair and quit following the leader. I have opinions and I will speak those opinions until the day I die. If you don't want to hear anymore, don't respond. I have all day and trust me you will continue to hear my opinion.

Jay, here's my humble opinion R.E. your post below:_______________________________________________________________________________"You can't be serious. The ADGO is like a freaking pyramid scheme. You might as well give me your money. I'll use it to host a member event or better yet I'll sponsor a tee sign. All the money that these fools bring in, you'd think they would use it to advance the sport instead of having a weekend kegger. Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive? Sure Fly Boy will get some exposure, but hasn't that happened already. What a waste of time and resources.Jay Phillips <EAT MY SKAT>________________________________________________________________________________Normally, I just ignore posts like this. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just couldn't let your rant of disgust with the ADGO ride. It's irrelevant to me how you got your panties all in a wad over the ADGO. It's also obvious from your posts that you have a lot of passion for disc golf and genuinely care about advancing the sport just like I do, the guys in the ADGO do, and pretty much every disc golfer I’ve ever met does. We’re all on the same team here Buddy…..even if we have different ideas on how to advance our sport.

I’m no Einstein, but the best way I can figure to advance ANYTHING, is to get folks EXCITED about it. How? Give the people what they want……fun. Simple as that. I know that, and the quote “fools” at the ADGO know that. I’m not just talking about the fun from playing a great golf course, but a fun Disc Golf EXPERIENCE folks will never forget . More fun than they expected when they showed up. Great action, night golf, field events, camping, and yep, some beer drinking. So much fun, they’ll tell their buddies all about it, and invite them to join in the disc golf fun. This is how you advance your cause exponentially Jay. Grassroots, win hearts and minds. The more people passionate about this great sport, equals more $$$ pumped into it, ultimately, it equals your Central Park and Lenora upgrades and your NT caliber championship course in Atlanta. (Although, I’d like to think the Flyboy course is approaching that caliber, “permanent” or not……..but then, I built it……..I’m biased).

So, we’re putting on the ADGO Member event at Flyboy Aviation Disc Golf, which is all about having fun, generating excitement about disc golf, bringing new converts into the fold, and ultimately advancing our beloved sport. Isn’t that “productive?” A “waste of time and resources” you say? Brother, that’s the best use of time and resources I can think of! And just for the record, not a dime of ADGO funds is going to pay Flyboy Aviation for this Member event venue. The venue itself, the Porta Johns I have to rent (because my septic system won’t handle all the shit), the extra snacks and drinks I keep around, not to mention the course itself and maintenance to get it up to speed for this event, etc.,etc., all is at NO COST to the ADGO. “Give YOU the money?” Well, can YOU find a better deal?

Finally, yep, “Flyboy will get some exposure”…..damn right. Let's expose some folks in the Atlanta area to what disc golf can be all about: camaraderie, team building, networking, all in addition to playing a unique and challenging course. Disc Golf continues to evolve, and private venues like Flyboy are starting to pop up all over the country. I don’t know where mine will end up, but I do like where its headed.

I don’t believe you’ve ever been out here Jay. Why don’t you come on out and participate in the member event in April and decide for yourself if we’re on the right path to advance our sport. Better yet, contact me and we’ll play a round out here together at your convenience. You might even like Flyboy as much as you like the Crucible! Kelly

Well put Kelly. Please let us know of any work days you might hold. I look forward to attending a monthly. Hopefully next week.

Jay, you need to check this place out !!!! No ADGO next week, but there is some sweet golf. I would say that Fly Boy tops over The Crucible since it has so many over-water shots. Other than that, they run a close tie.

Fly Boy wrote:Jay, here's my humble opinion R.E. your post below:_______________________________________________________________________________"You can't be serious. The ADGO is like a freaking pyramid scheme. You might as well give me your money. I'll use it to host a member event or better yet I'll sponsor a tee sign. All the money that these fools bring in, you'd think they would use it to advance the sport instead of having a weekend kegger. Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive? Sure Fly Boy will get some exposure, but hasn't that happened already. What a waste of time and resources.Jay Phillips <EAT MY SKAT>________________________________________________________________________________Normally, I just ignore posts like this. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just couldn't let your rant of disgust with the ADGO ride. It's irrelevant to me how you got your panties all in a wad over the ADGO. It's also obvious from your posts that you have a lot of passion for disc golf and genuinely care about advancing the sport just like I do, the guys in the ADGO do, and pretty much every disc golfer I’ve ever met does. We’re all on the same team here Buddy…..even if we have different ideas on how to advance our sport.

I’m no Einstein, but the best way I can figure to advance ANYTHING, is to get folks EXCITED about it. How? Give the people what they want……fun. Simple as that. I know that, and the quote “fools” at the ADGO know that. I’m not just talking about the fun from playing a great golf course, but a fun Disc Golf EXPERIENCE folks will never forget . More fun than they expected when they showed up. Great action, night golf, field events, camping, and yep, some beer drinking. So much fun, they’ll tell their buddies all about it, and invite them to join in the disc golf fun. This is how you advance your cause exponentially Jay. Grassroots, win hearts and minds. The more people passionate about this great sport, equals more $$$ pumped into it, ultimately, it equals your Central Park and Lenora upgrades and your NT caliber championship course in Atlanta. (Although, I’d like to think the Flyboy course is approaching that caliber, “permanent” or not……..but then, I built it……..I’m biased).

So, we’re putting on the ADGO Member event at Flyboy Aviation Disc Golf, which is all about having fun, generating excitement about disc golf, bringing new converts into the fold, and ultimately advancing our beloved sport. Isn’t that “productive?” A “waste of time and resources” you say? Brother, that’s the best use of time and resources I can think of! And just for the record, not a dime of ADGO funds is going to pay Flyboy Aviation for this Member event venue. The venue itself, the Porta Johns I have to rent (because my septic system won’t handle all the shit), the extra snacks and drinks I keep around, not to mention the course itself and maintenance to get it up to speed for this event, etc.,etc., all is at NO COST to the ADGO. “Give YOU the money?” Well, can YOU find a better deal?

Finally, yep, “Flyboy will get some exposure”…..damn right. Let's expose some folks in the Atlanta area to what disc golf can be all about: camaraderie, team building, networking, all in addition to playing a unique and challenging course. Disc Golf continues to evolve, and private venues like Flyboy are starting to pop up all over the country. I don’t know where mine will end up, but I do like where its headed.

I don’t believe you’ve ever been out here Jay. Why don’t you come on out and participate in the member event in April and decide for yourself if we’re on the right path to advance our sport. Better yet, contact me and we’ll play a round out here together at your convenience. You might even like Flyboy as much as you like the Crucible! Kelly

Thanks for your reply Kelly. First off, let me be clear, I wasn't insinuating that you or Flyboy were making money from this event. If it came across that way, I apologize. I've heard nothing but good things about your course and your family. I have no problem with private and temporary courses. In fact, I happen to love Perkerson, The Crucible, and eventually Flyboy. They do serve there purpose, but I was led to understand that National Tour events can't be held on temporary courses. Am I wrong about that? I've had every intention to play Flyboy, but it always falls on days that I'm not free. The ADGO event is the same weekend as Bowling Green, i wouldn't attend either way, but I am busy. I do plan on playing this weekend assuming all goes well between now and then.

Anyway, you have some very valid points. However, I think our ideas of current and future growth are very different. I think that presenting the wow factor to new disc golfer's is great. This event will succeed in doing that. Some of these new golfers will probably go on to do great things for our sport. The other thing this event will do is hype up the ADGO, but what does that prove in the end. There will be more members, yes, but what comes from inexperience. You'll have an organization ran by "fun minded" people. How will they ever gain the mentality required to truly advance this sport? I just think the headlines should read The ---------National Tour presented by the ADGO. Doesn't matter to me when or where. Hopefully it will be at a permanent course that rivals Perkerson, The Crucible, and I assume Flyboy. National exposure to Metro area courses is a good thing.

Big Red wrote:Man, I think the ADGO is the greatest club ever at putting on member tournaments! Way to go guys....

You can't be serious. The ADGO is like a freaking pyramid scheme. You might as well give me your money. I'll use it to host a member event or better yet I'll sponsor a tee sign. All the money that these fools bring in, you'd think they would use it to advance the sport instead of having a weekend kegger. Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive? Sure Fly Boy will get some exposure, but hasn't that happened already. What a waste of time and resources.

1. Not sure there is going to be any costs, food only if not member or vendor sponsored. No kegs, only food for members, cooked by members.

2. Trophies only - Side action at will.

3. Kelly has offered the ADGO this awesome facility that gives us the flexibility to offer more than one day of activities at basically no cost. Thank you Kelly!

4. Event promotes membership for bigger pool of resources to unite with local clubs to "blow it up".

8. The club has positive financial results which lends to programs to give back to the sport and the communities.

But I hear ya. The ADGO has some programs to give back to the local tournaments and we are working to establish some short term and long term goals and programs.

You aren't going to boycott are you, Richardhead ??????

Big Red ??????

I am not boycotting the ADGO. I do agree with Jay that I think the ADGO's time and resources are misspent and could be put to better uses than member tournaments. This is why I am not a member. It's not a boycott as I would certainly join at some point in the future if I thought the club was moving in another direction. I do think it is a good point that fun tournaments can create excitement about disc golf and possibly instigate some growth however I don't think this is the kind of growth we need. There are at least 10 to 1 casual players to tournament players out there and I think the ADGO could grow its image much more by putting literally all its efforts into getting them and the rest of us quality courses to play. I think more of these recreational players could be enticed into getting involved in the ADGO and tournament disc golf if they see a new influx of quality courses that are a result of the clubs efforts. Other clubs have been successful at adding multiple courses all over the country and I don't know for sure but I don't think it was because they constantly have large member tournaments and don't "appear" to do much else. When I think of the ADGO and something comes to mind other than unsanctioned member tournaments I believe I will join and become more active. Until then it would be me against everyone else because it just seems like the club does not share my views. I am looking forward to getting out to flyboy soon but I would not be able to do this tournament anyway because I am going to Bowling Green.

You can stay at home then. We'll certainly have a lot more fun without you and your attitude.

I'll be in Bowling Green so you wouldn't see me either way. I love the fact that you clowns can't handle a opinion or constructive criticism. I think I'll pay my dues to the CDGC, at least they have there priorities together and strive to improve disc golf in there state. I just think this effort is indulgent and wasteful. I'm not an ADGO member so I guess my opinion doesn't matter anyway. Good luck with your action, I'm sure it will be a blast, but still a waste.

Jay,

Would you be so courteous to provide some specifics to your constructive criticism:

Can you provide some rational as to why this event is indulgent and wasteful? Can you include some examples of non-indulgent and non-wasteful events (please exempt charitable fundraisers)?

Who is the CDGC and what are they doing to improve disc golf in their state? Maybe we can share with them and incorporate their philosophies into future ADGO Programs. In fact, we are looking to team with local clubs immediately and have a BOD position to take action.

I am aware of many ADGO members that belong to other local clubs. I belong to four myself (ERP, Cobb County, the ADGO and Pinto Lake).

I just do not understand where you are coming from on this. Help me help the ADGO help grow disc golf.

Come to the dark side ...

You too Big Red. Don't wait for the ADGO to get where we need to be then join. Help us get there. The ADGO membership fee is non-significant, we need resources like you guys.

Now I will say that I absolutely see no issue with a Club tourney. I'd like to see it grow so big that we rival Bowling Green. Atlanta has the # of people and # of courses to accommodate.

Before I answer your questions, I want to make sure that it won't affect my staying with you and your family at Earlewood??? j/k

I think it is indulgent and wasteful because it's designed to make the ADGO look good. You may say that it's for the members and is an attempt to have fun and boost membership. I say that's an easy out.

The CDGC (Charlotte Disc Golf Club). There club alone has installed courses that have been featured in National Tour Events for years. It's my understanding that Renaissance and Hornets Nest are club courses. They have also redesigned Reedy Creek Park, Kilborne Park, and Sugaw Creek. At Sugaw they redesigned the original layout and also added a longer tougher layout for more advanced players. Kilborne added difficulty and now has a layout known as Skilborne, the same with Reedy Creek known as Reedy Creek stout. Renaissance and Hornets Nest are constantly being changed and improved. Anybody that played these courses 5 years ago can attest to the efforts being put forth by the club. Aside from this, they have installed 3 other courses that will be used in the up coming Carolina Amateur Championships. A tournament that will rival Bowling Green and most likely surpass there efforts. Add in the 2012 Worlds and you can see the growth. Growth provided by an extremely motivated club. The only "club" events they have are bag tag tournaments. Which require an entry fee for any side action. The money goes back into the courses.

I personally don't belong to any clubs. Some may say that my opinion is moot because of that. Other's may say that if I don't like it I should do something about it. My answer to that is BS. Comments like that are merely cop outs designed by the uneducated and often times lazy. I don't think belonging to a club really means anything. I can give $10 to 100 different clubs, what does that prove?

Like Aaron, I would support and join a club that was active and moving forward. I would join a club that had intentions of growing disc golf in the same way the my pals in Charlotte do. I just think this club is stagnant and has been since I started playing disc golf in December of 2005. Just an opinion and it can be accepted or not. I'm not trying to start a big was or anything. I'm merely stating facts and opinions from my experiences playing disc golf. I really thing the ADGO has the opportunity to put it's best foot forward and really make an impact on the National Disc Golf scene.

1) Support of women. 1 to a maximum of 3 women per event is not a success. Look at the courses, there are a ton of women playing disc golf yet none of them compete. We have 13 am. women in GA with PDGA numbers and ratings. SAD. I created a Support the women of disc golf facebook group and in under a week we have 421 members (I didn't check this morning...it might be higher). I am also going to run a women's clinic and fun tourney in the spring. Use membership fees to buy a couple PDGA memberships and give them to tournament winners at big events (say 10 or greater entered).

2) Support of Jrs. They are our next REC and INT groups if not straight to ADV and OPEN with good teaching and natural talent. We need to nourish this. Use membership fees to buy a couple PDGA memberships and give them to tournament winners at big events (say 10 or greater entered).

3) Support of AMs. You want more OPEN players? Groom them.

4) Community and County support. No ideas here...I can't have all the answers. Obviously a hearts and minds thing.

This area is big enough to do a Bowling Green style event and could be big enough to do more.

My part: I am doing the women's clinic and the facebook thing. I would like to see over 20 AM women in the state by the end of summer. Beyond that I would like to see a womens only event here or maybe a combo women/jrs. I think groups have tried these things but they have done so with the "build it and they will come" mentality without a foundation.

Lastly the damn bickering, name calling and stupid BS has to go. Do you really think anyone will stand behind anything we do here if all this crap is public?

1) Support of women. 1 to a maximum of 3 women per event is not a success. Look at the courses, there are a ton of women playing disc golf yet none of them compete. We have 13 am. women in GA with PDGA numbers and ratings. SAD. I created a Support the women of disc golf facebook group and in under a week we have 421 members (I didn't check this morning...it might be higher). I am also going to run a women's clinic and fun tourney in the spring. Use membership fees to buy a couple PDGA memberships and give them to tournament winners at big events (say 10 or greater entered).

2) Support of Jrs. They are our next REC and INT groups if not straight to ADV and OPEN with good teaching and natural talent. We need to nourish this. Use membership fees to buy a couple PDGA memberships and give them to tournament winners at big events (say 10 or greater entered).

3) Support of AMs. You want more OPEN players? Groom them.

4) Community and County support. No ideas here...I can't have all the answers. Obviously a hearts and minds thing.

This area is big enough to do a Bowling Green style event and could be big enough to do more.

My part: I am doing the women's clinic and the facebook thing. I would like to see over 20 AM women in the state by the end of summer. Beyond that I would like to see a womens only event here or maybe a combo women/jrs. I think groups have tried these things but they have done so with the "build it and they will come" mentality without a foundation.

Lastly the damn bickering, name calling and stupid BS has to go. Do you really think anyone will stand behind anything we do here if all this crap is public?

I agree with most of your points here. I don't think the "bickering" is very positive and has absolutely no negative effect on anything. It is wonderful that these discussions can occur here now because it was not that long ago that they would be shut down instantly. Real discussions have to be able to happen without fear of the thought police stopping them because the topics don't give everyone a warm feeling inside. I applaud the moderators for doing the right thing.

Before I answer your questions, I want to make sure that it won't affect my staying with you and your family at Earlewood??? j/k

I think it is indulgent and wasteful because it's designed to make the ADGO look good. You may say that it's for the members and is an attempt to have fun and boost membership. I say that's an easy out.

The CDGC (Charlotte Disc Golf Club). There club alone has installed courses that have been featured in National Tour Events for years. It's my understanding that Renaissance and Hornets Nest are club courses. They have also redesigned Reedy Creek Park, Kilborne Park, and Sugaw Creek. At Sugaw they redesigned the original layout and also added a longer tougher layout for more advanced players. Kilborne added difficulty and now has a layout known as Skilborne, the same with Reedy Creek known as Reedy Creek stout. Renaissance and Hornets Nest are constantly being changed and improved. Anybody that played these courses 5 years ago can attest to the efforts being put forth by the club. Aside from this, they have installed 3 other courses that will be used in the up coming Carolina Amateur Championships. A tournament that will rival Bowling Green and most likely surpass there efforts. Add in the 2012 Worlds and you can see the growth. Growth provided by an extremely motivated club. The only "club" events they have are bag tag tournaments. Which require an entry fee for any side action. The money goes back into the courses.

I personally don't belong to any clubs. Some may say that my opinion is moot because of that. Other's may say that if I don't like it I should do something about it. My answer to that is BS. Comments like that are merely cop outs designed by the uneducated and often times lazy. I don't think belonging to a club really means anything. I can give $10 to 100 different clubs, what does that prove?

Like Aaron, I would support and join a club that was active and moving forward. I would join a club that had intentions of growing disc golf in the same way the my pals in Charlotte do. I just think this club is stagnant and has been since I started playing disc golf in December of 2005. Just an opinion and it can be accepted or not. I'm not trying to start a big was or anything. I'm merely stating facts and opinions from my experiences playing disc golf. I really thing the ADGO has the opportunity to put it's best foot forward and really make an impact on the National Disc Golf scene.

Well put Jay, I agree almost wholly but I'm not sure it is to make the ADGO look good; I don't know if it's a conspiracy. Regardless I feel it is counter to what I think the club should be doing.

Oh the bickering is fine...who doesn't do that...its the straight up personal attacks that need to go...it is unprofessional and makes us look like a bunch of children throwing rocks on the playground.

Dissenting opinions are the foundation for great ideas if handled properly.

Just to be totally honest with his point about Charlotte as I'm sure Jay doesn't wish to mislead people, but Charlotte is an example of what happens when 2 club members are in the right postions as Alan Beaver is/was on the Parks board which got the courses put in and upgraded, and Stan McDaniel has PERSONALLY (not club work day related) put in thousands of hours working on courses in the area.

So you need to compare apples to apples and also not ignore the things that have happened around here in the last 4 years that might not have happened without the support of the ADGO MEMBERS(not just BOD)

These are just some of the course things that have happened in the last 4 years (there are others also) since the reformation of the ADGO that may or may not have happened without the ADGO presence or the members that make up the ADGO.

Are we perfect? - NO, Are we doing everything everybody wants? - NO, But to say we are doing nothing and going nowhere is a mistatement.

By the way Jay on this quote: "I think it is indulgent and wasteful because it's designed to make the ADGO look good. You may say that it's for the members and is an attempt to have fun and boost membership. I say that's an easy out." - I've never seen a club advertise itself as wanting to host a club Event to make it look BAD - so if you have seen a club do that I'd like to know which one it is.

You missed the point, as usual. Of course a club wouldn't try to make itself look bad. Indulgent is the only word I can think to describe my opinion. I just think the ADGO can put that name out there in a less showoffish way.

As for the list you provided. I'm in no way discounting the efforts of the ADGO members. How much of that work was ADGO funded? I think the people on the list would have done that very same work, with or without the ADGO. My main point is being missed here. Why isn't the ADGO money being used to install championship style PERMANENT courses or redesigning courses that would meet these standards? Throwing a new sign or teepad on an already poorly designed shitty course doesn't really help the cause. I can go out to Hurricane Shoals right now. I'll throw in some signs and build a nice little kiosk, I might even put some of those little plastic windmills in the ground. What will that prove? You can paint over the wood on a rotting house, at the end of the day it's still going to fall apart.

OK, so there are some good concrete examples, approaches and challenges. Thanks Aaron, Jay, BillnChristy ...

We will add these discussion points to a thread and place on agenda for next BOD meeting. Again, we are working to establish some programs, goals and objectives so that we can clearly measure and quantify club success.

Back to the Spring Event:

I'm wanting to use the club event to promote club awareness, increase membership and to recruit and align resources.

We can explore ways to host this tournament with no club $ spent (i.e., not provide food), e.g., bring your own sandwiches or dinner fee. Usually the food is donated, and I am not going to question anyone's generosity.

For $15 per person the ADGO is giving disc golfers (REC, AM, Pro, WOMEN, MEN, OLD, YOUNG) an ADGO Club Membership and a couple of top shelf Member Only events each year.

i gotta jump in a bit too .... the constructive feedback is great, the negative inflammatory stuff is not. jay/aaron, you both offer tons of great feedback in here, why not offer it up tactfully in the first place instead of throwing in the barbs?

Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive?

sadly, our "pyramid scheme" isn't that profitable. the reason we can't do a course remodel is MONEY. or rather, lack of $. for 2007+2008+2009 our total income is a measly $1400. i've been meaning to post the detailed income statement for all members that are interested to see, look for it soon in the members forum. but you'll see that we're largely self-sustaining now .... most $$ is spent on the website and member expenses (member discs & tags).

we're getting to the point where we can start to pursue more $$, but we haven't really hit that yet. things are getting more organized, and there have been accomplishments in 3 years of our reorganization.

with the small sum of $$ we have to use, the best use of funds so far has been promoting the club through local tourney tee sign sponsorships ... and by holding club events that are free to members. from feedback we've gotten, your comments are the first i've heard from that think the member events are a total waste.

i share your opinion that $$ should be spent to improve existing & get new, better courses. but $$ is probably better spent & more leveraged on growing/marketing our organization then pumping $500/yr directly into one of the 10 area courses, wouldn't you agree? or should we give each course a single new teepad every 10 years?

each year as the organization gets more members and becomes more organized with local affiliate clubs, it becomes a much more powerful force in the eyes of the local goverments ... we've already hit 300 members that have been active in the last 3 years. Now when the GDGO talks to the county, they can say the GDGO has 50 members ... but they are part of the ADGO which has 300 members. It seems bigger...that's the point. With that ciritical and growing mass comes increased clout in these conversations, and eventually more $$ and more courses.

when i finally get around to formally proposing perkerson as permanent, i assure you that the mere existence of the ADGO and its 300 members will be a major deciding factor in getting it in or not. so to me and anyone else that has to interface with city/county/etc local officials, the club serves a major purpose by simply existing.

While I have little interest (if you would've seen the meltdown at Sunset DGC when my wife lost her Assassin you would fully understand) in playing Flyboy I think my wife and I will both join the club to show our support.

jritger wrote:i gotta jump in a bit too .... the constructive feedback is great, the negative inflammatory stuff is not. jay/aaron, you both offer tons of great feedback in here, why not offer it up tactfully in the first place instead of throwing in the barbs?

Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive?

sadly, our "pyramid scheme" isn't that profitable. the reason we can't do a course remodel is MONEY. or rather, lack of $. for 2007+2008+2009 our total income is a measly $1400. i've been meaning to post the detailed income statement for all members that are interested to see, look for it soon in the members forum. but you'll see that we're largely self-sustaining now .... most $$ is spent on the website and member expenses (member discs & tags).

we're getting to the point where we can start to pursue more $$, but we haven't really hit that yet. things are getting more organized, and there have been accomplishments in 3 years of our reorganization.

with the small sum of $$ we have to use, the best use of funds so far has been promoting the club through local tourney tee sign sponsorships ... and by holding club events that are free to members. from feedback we've gotten, your comments are the first i've heard from that think the member events are a total waste.

i share your opinion that $$ should be spent to improve existing & get new, better courses. but $$ is probably better spent & more leveraged on growing/marketing our organization then pumping $500/yr directly into one of the 10 area courses, wouldn't you agree? or should we give each course a single new teepad every 10 years?

each year as the organization gets more members and becomes more organized with local affiliate clubs, it becomes a much more powerful force in the eyes of the local goverments ... we've already hit 300 members that have been active in the last 3 years. Now when the GDGO talks to the county, they can say the GDGO has 50 members ... but they are part of the ADGO which has 300 members. It seems bigger...that's the point. With that ciritical and growing mass comes increased clout in these conversations, and eventually more $$ and more courses.

when i finally get around to formally proposing perkerson as permanent, i assure you that the mere existence of the ADGO and its 300 members will be a major deciding factor in getting it in or not. so to me and anyone else that has to interface with city/county/etc local officials, the club serves a major purpose by simply existing.

Thanks for your response Ritger. I agree there is power in numbers, especially where Perkerson is concerned. In my eyes Perkerson is a great example of how the ADGO can step up. When it becomes permanent the ADGO should be first in line to purchase the baskets for the course. I know that you have several, but shouldn't they all be the same make/model?

I'll admit that I could be more tactful in my responses. Unfortunately that is a character flaw that I share with a lot of other people. Again, I'm trying to open the lines of debate, I'm not trying to start a war or point fingers. As I said, if the ADGO were going in a different direction I would happily support it, but I refuse to throw my money away on a seemingly lost cause.

Why is the membership fee $15? Why was that set in stone and why hasn't it changed? With 300 active members the fee's could and should be higher. If you see growth in the future, the fee's should be higher. Over the last few days I've talked to several disc golfing brethren from other clubs around the southeast. The ADGO membership fee is the smallest I've seen. I know that we are all struggling through economic hardships, but is $50/year that big a deal? By simply raising the membership fee you're instantly making enough money to make some real change. Half of the people that Keith mentioned have put that much or more into there own course maintenance projects. It's literally the cost of 1 disc golf tournament. I'm pretty sure the majority of your 300 active members would be happy to pay this amount to see some serious change taking place. Hell the democrats are raising taxes, so the faction can do the same.j/k

Sorry if some of my comments are hitting a sore spot for those of you that really care about this sport. My intentions are genuine and in no way malicious. I want to see disc golf reach a new level in Georgia. I guess my only hope is that my opinions will kick someone's ass in to gear and things will start rolling. You're right, pumping $500 into a teepad once a year doesn't do squat. Planting tree's, buying new basket sleeves, buying concrete, etc. These are simple and relatively inexpensive things that can be done immediately to cleanup and change some of our existing courses. Courses that really need a face lift and long awaited revamping. In the future, membership money's should be poured back into the courses. There should be some type of program implemented that guarantees a new, well designed, National Tour caliber course be installed every 3-5 years in the Metro Atlanta area. This doesn't just apply to brand new courses at brand new parks. This means redesigned courses at existing parks as well. Just food for thought. Again, I appreciate the efforts of several of the ADGO members, but I have a vision for what the future could hold. We have a wealth of opportunity here.

Anyway it basically said that we need more proactive people in the atlanta disc golf scene. Hopefully Dawson County, GA puts in the championship course that they have already told me they want after I met with them. Phil Arthur, Keith Johnson, Ritger, and some others have already pledged to help me in putting in the Championship Caliber course we all want and that they want. Nathan Skinner has already said he would do the signs, we have the labor in the ADGO. Championship Caliber courses are coming, the ADGO is coming along and things are beginning to pick up I believe. I need to join the ADGO as well.

All these good ideas are great but they are just simply ideas. Be proactive in bettering disc golf.

jritger wrote:i gotta jump in a bit too .... the constructive feedback is great, the negative inflammatory stuff is not. jay/aaron, you both offer tons of great feedback in here, why not offer it up tactfully in the first place instead of throwing in the barbs?

Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive?

sadly, our "pyramid scheme" isn't that profitable. the reason we can't do a course remodel is MONEY. or rather, lack of $. for 2007+2008+2009 our total income is a measly $1400. i've been meaning to post the detailed income statement for all members that are interested to see, look for it soon in the members forum. but you'll see that we're largely self-sustaining now .... most $$ is spent on the website and member expenses (member discs & tags).

we're getting to the point where we can start to pursue more $$, but we haven't really hit that yet. things are getting more organized, and there have been accomplishments in 3 years of our reorganization.

with the small sum of $$ we have to use, the best use of funds so far has been promoting the club through local tourney tee sign sponsorships ... and by holding club events that are free to members. from feedback we've gotten, your comments are the first i've heard from that think the member events are a total waste.

i share your opinion that $$ should be spent to improve existing & get new, better courses. but $$ is probably better spent & more leveraged on growing/marketing our organization then pumping $500/yr directly into one of the 10 area courses, wouldn't you agree? or should we give each course a single new teepad every 10 years?

each year as the organization gets more members and becomes more organized with local affiliate clubs, it becomes a much more powerful force in the eyes of the local goverments ... we've already hit 300 members that have been active in the last 3 years. Now when the GDGO talks to the county, they can say the GDGO has 50 members ... but they are part of the ADGO which has 300 members. It seems bigger...that's the point. With that ciritical and growing mass comes increased clout in these conversations, and eventually more $$ and more courses.

when i finally get around to formally proposing perkerson as permanent, i assure you that the mere existence of the ADGO and its 300 members will be a major deciding factor in getting it in or not. so to me and anyone else that has to interface with city/county/etc local officials, the club serves a major purpose by simply existing.

Thanks for your response Ritger. I agree there is power in numbers, especially where Perkerson is concerned. In my eyes Perkerson is a great example of how the ADGO can step up. When it becomes permanent the ADGO should be first in line to purchase the baskets for the course. I know that you have several, but shouldn't they all be the same make/model?

I'll admit that I could be more tactful in my responses. Unfortunately that is a character flaw that I share with a lot of other people. Again, I'm trying to open the lines of debate, I'm not trying to start a war or point fingers. As I said, if the ADGO were going in a different direction I would happily support it, but I refuse to throw my money away on a seemingly lost cause.

Why is the membership fee $15? Why was that set in stone and why hasn't it changed? With 300 active members the fee's could and should be higher. If you see growth in the future, the fee's should be higher. Over the last few days I've talked to several disc golfing brethren from other clubs around the southeast. The ADGO membership fee is the smallest I've seen. I know that we are all struggling through economic hardships, but is $50/year that big a deal? By simply raising the membership fee you're instantly making enough money to make some real change. Half of the people that Keith mentioned have put that much or more into there own course maintenance projects. It's literally the cost of 1 disc golf tournament. I'm pretty sure the majority of your 300 active members would be happy to pay this amount to see some serious change taking place. Hell the democrats are raising taxes, so the faction can do the same.j/k

Sorry if some of my comments are hitting a sore spot for those of you that really care about this sport. My intentions are genuine and in no way malicious. I want to see disc golf reach a new level in Georgia. I guess my only hope is that my opinions will kick someone's ass in to gear and things will start rolling. You're right, pumping $500 into a teepad once a year doesn't do squat. Planting tree's, buying new basket sleeves, buying concrete, etc. These are simple and relatively inexpensive things that can be done immediately to cleanup and change some of our existing courses. Courses that really need a face lift and long awaited revamping. In the future, membership money's should be poured back into the courses. There should be some type of program implemented that guarantees a new, well designed, National Tour caliber course be installed every 3-5 years in the Metro Atlanta area. This doesn't just apply to brand new courses at brand new parks. This means redesigned courses at existing parks as well. Just food for thought. Again, I appreciate the efforts of several of the ADGO members, but I have a vision for what the future could hold. We have a wealth of opportunity here.

Actually, I pretty much agree with Jay to some degree. People do not pay that much attention to tee signs (even the super sexy ones I pump out for Rand at the AO). A 300 member organization has manpower - something a lot of courses need. If you could get 50 people at a park a couple of times per year plus the money the club raises, that is pretty powerful. It would be so cool to pitch conrete pads for Central or other area courses knowing the ADGO would help out with some with dough and knowing we could get substantial numbers on a work day. The ADGO could document what they did on the work day and send it to heads of P&R, county gov etc - that will go a heck of a lot further than 300 names on a piece of paper.

We play member events all around the city all the time in the form of doubles, tourneys, Ice Bowls, etc. However, if a net gain is realized from people renewing and selling merch, then great for the club. But, I am not real crazy about the club decreasing the coffers by running events and having tee signs at tournaments. We have so much that needs to be done.

Unlike my rotund red-haired amigo, I support the ADGO. I am not real crazy about the fact that the meetings are apparently not open to members, minutes are rarely posted, and what the limited funds are spent on. However, I do not think that we need to throw the baby out with the bath water. I know the volunteers are doing what they deem best and I appreciate their willingness to spend time doing what they can to organize this bunch of miscreants.

Living in the United States where the hottest European import is Plutocracy...

jritger wrote:i gotta jump in a bit too .... the constructive feedback is great, the negative inflammatory stuff is not. jay/aaron, you both offer tons of great feedback in here, why not offer it up tactfully in the first place instead of throwing in the barbs?

Why don't you guys sponsor Central Parks course remodel or Lenora's for that matter? Why don't you put your efforts towards opening a championship style "permanent" course that will attract a National Tour audience? How is a ADGO member event doing anything productive?

sadly, our "pyramid scheme" isn't that profitable. the reason we can't do a course remodel is MONEY. or rather, lack of $. for 2007+2008+2009 our total income is a measly $1400. i've been meaning to post the detailed income statement for all members that are interested to see, look for it soon in the members forum. but you'll see that we're largely self-sustaining now .... most $$ is spent on the website and member expenses (member discs & tags).

we're getting to the point where we can start to pursue more $$, but we haven't really hit that yet. things are getting more organized, and there have been accomplishments in 3 years of our reorganization.

with the small sum of $$ we have to use, the best use of funds so far has been promoting the club through local tourney tee sign sponsorships ... and by holding club events that are free to members. from feedback we've gotten, your comments are the first i've heard from that think the member events are a total waste.

i share your opinion that $$ should be spent to improve existing & get new, better courses. but $$ is probably better spent & more leveraged on growing/marketing our organization then pumping $500/yr directly into one of the 10 area courses, wouldn't you agree? or should we give each course a single new teepad every 10 years?

each year as the organization gets more members and becomes more organized with local affiliate clubs, it becomes a much more powerful force in the eyes of the local goverments ... we've already hit 300 members that have been active in the last 3 years. Now when the GDGO talks to the county, they can say the GDGO has 50 members ... but they are part of the ADGO which has 300 members. It seems bigger...that's the point. With that ciritical and growing mass comes increased clout in these conversations, and eventually more $$ and more courses.

when i finally get around to formally proposing perkerson as permanent, i assure you that the mere existence of the ADGO and its 300 members will be a major deciding factor in getting it in or not. so to me and anyone else that has to interface with city/county/etc local officials, the club serves a major purpose by simply existing.

John I feel like I have not made any attacking statements on this thread. My intial comment could be taken either way.

Funky Bobby J wrote:Actually, I pretty much agree with Jay to some degree. People do not pay that much attention to tee signs (even the super sexy ones I pump out for Rand at the AO). A 300 member organization has manpower - something a lot of courses need. If you could get 50 people at a park a couple of times per year plus the money the club raises, that is pretty powerful. It would be so cool to pitch conrete pads for Central or other area courses knowing the ADGO would help out with some with dough and knowing we could get substantial numbers on a work day. The ADGO could document what they did on the work day and send it to heads of P&R, county gov etc - that will go a heck of a lot further than 300 names on a piece of paper.

We play member events all around the city all the time in the form of doubles, tourneys, Ice Bowls, etc. However, if a net gain is realized from people renewing and selling merch, then great for the club. But, I am not real crazy about the club decreasing the coffers by running events and having tee signs at tournaments. We have so much that needs to be done.

Unlike my rotund red-haired amigo, I support the ADGO. I am not real crazy about the fact that the meetings are apparently not open to members, minutes are rarely posted, and what the limited funds are spent on. However, I do not think that we need to throw the baby out with the bath water. I know the volunteers are doing what they deem best and I appreciate their willingness to spend time doing what they can to organize this bunch of miscreants.

1. Let's get some more programs laid out then we choose as members where to invest our time and money. Resources are available now. We have a goal of getting together a skills roster. We should also begin a body of knowledge to include affiliate efforts such as ERPs fundraiser program, Concrete Tee-Pad logistics, etc.2. I'm going for no cost events! or event club fundraisers going forward!3. I agree regarding the meetings, we need to have public meetings. Check.

Funky Bobby J wrote:Actually, I pretty much agree with Jay to some degree. People do not pay that much attention to tee signs (even the super sexy ones I pump out for Rand at the AO). A 300 member organization has manpower - something a lot of courses need. If you could get 50 people at a park a couple of times per year plus the money the club raises, that is pretty powerful. It would be so cool to pitch conrete pads for Central or other area courses knowing the ADGO would help out with some with dough and knowing we could get substantial numbers on a work day. The ADGO could document what they did on the work day and send it to heads of P&R, county gov etc - that will go a heck of a lot further than 300 names on a piece of paper.

We play member events all around the city all the time in the form of doubles, tourneys, Ice Bowls, etc. However, if a net gain is realized from people renewing and selling merch, then great for the club. But, I am not real crazy about the club decreasing the coffers by running events and having tee signs at tournaments. We have so much that needs to be done.

Unlike my rotund red-haired amigo, I support the ADGO. I am not real crazy about the fact that the meetings are apparently not open to members, minutes are rarely posted, and what the limited funds are spent on. However, I do not think that we need to throw the baby out with the bath water. I know the volunteers are doing what they deem best and I appreciate their willingness to spend time doing what they can to organize this bunch of miscreants.

Bob, thanks for your support!Just like with ERP, Fayetteville, etc. - If someone wants something done for their course with the ADGO help, you just have to start a thread or hold an Event and the people WILL TURN OUT! - and those things DO get noticed by parks departments.The teepads work at White oak happened over 2 different occasions with just a few people working each time and the improvements are well received by the players that play there.You know that myself alone will donate money and time to get teepads at Central, and I've been following along with you and Dave on trying to get them in. If Matt needs something on ADGO letterhead saying that we have 300+ people in the club that would love to see concrete pads at Central then let me know and I'll create one.

What Jay and others may be and most likely ARE missing is the fact that you can't just go to a park and say -"were going to come in here and redeisgn the course to make a National Tour level course - please step aside and let us do it" - as anyone that has read any of what the GDGO BOD has posted or anybody that has read about Lenora or Alexander can also testify it doesn't work that way. And that list above that Jay references has several hundred dollars of ADGO funded improvements, plus alot of my own personal money and other people on that list have put in alot of thier own personal money that are/have been on the ADGO BOD with the knowledge that having the people numbers makes a HUGE difference to parks department people. Don't you think I wouldn't love to have the ability to work with the parks depts like I did in Miami and Tucson and get courses installed?Don't you think the GDGO would love to go in and say, we want this, we want that and it would magically be done? In this economy it is even HARDER than it was when we were in the good times as Parks are LOSING people and funding with every budget.

Jay - please separate your opinions of me personally from me as ADGO President and I'll ask you this - Just as trial test - please call up the people at Rose Lane Park where you are hosting your Event and ask them to let you redesign the course so it can be a Championship caliber course ready to host National Tour Events before GA States in August and let me know what their response is.

I'll go out on a limb and tell you I'll personally write you a check for $1000 dollars if they say that they'll let you totally redsign the course from scratch to make one.

We all see lots of open parkland and say we should have Championship courses there, but so do soccer moms, and baseball dads, and basketball people etc. etc.I don't know how many times it has to be said to be understood, but DISC GOLF does NOT put money into park fees as do the other sports, and it uses up WAAAY more land space (even for crappy courses), so when parks departments are kind enough to have disc golf courses in their parks, it doesn't mean that they care about the fact that the new disc technology causes their once decent disc golf course to need a redesign. More likely than not, they'll put sheds, benches, picnic tables chained to the ground, walking paths, and other things in what is/was the nice discgolf fairways of your favorite disc golf courses. You cvan read threads all over this board about parks that have signs saying they are park space - but will sit there for aloooong time before anyone even moves 1 shovel of dirt on them.I'm still waiting for the Roswell library that was supposed to be built from 2 years ago to go in, as maybe the trailers from hole 4 will be able to go when they are prepping the land to build the library.

ADGO renewal fees are only $10 and even with 100+ people renewing - if we didn't spend ONE DIME on anything and just let it build up it would take over 15 YEARS to have enough money to install 1 (ONE) Championship caliber discgolf course if the land was given to us and the labor was done by ADGO Members.

Minutes have been and are ALWAYS posted here:viewforum.php?f=1 - in the bottom of the minutes under other business is the ADGO BOD and MEMBER Meeting schedule for all of 2010 which was posted over a month ago .

We have asked at the MEMBER Events for feedback from members, we have a ADGO Members only section with forums for this exact stuff, so that it doesn't end up in the Event threads, and going forward in 2010 "due to member feedback" we are having Q&A with the BOD during the ADGO Member Event during Banquet Saturday night so anyone that has questions or ideas can be heard.

I enjoy seeing the enthusiam from everyone out there, but please be reasonable in your posts about things that you think the ADGO can do, and also try to appreciate what has already been done and is in the pipeline for getting done.

I do not know the ATL disc golf history or any other area of the country for that matter as I have only been involved the past few years. What I am very familiar with is fund-raising - having someone give you money for something they want and or giving you money just in support of those involved or the cause itself. Many times those donated dollars also get you something in return. Many charity events run auctions as they know some people aren't going to donate those dollars if they do not get something in return. The ADGO gives back to members in the form of membership tournaments BUT also gives the option to members to donate more than the membership fee if desired...

My point - getting any of the discussed projects completed takes dollars! You certainly need volunteers, committees, workers, etc, but you must have money in combination to get anything accomplished. This is just assuming you have every State, County & City approval where need be, however that is an entire subject alone. There have to be significant dollars to create, renovate and make additions to any of these parks. Atlanta will have the work-force to execute any plan IF the dollars (and of course all approvals) are in place!

So how about some money generating ideas...?

So what do other large metro areas do to generate dollars for disc golf? Do other large cities have multiple clubs? If so, how are dollars generated for new parks? What type of fund-raising takes place to generate dollars? Do most of the dollars in other cities come from straight donations (nothing in return)? How many areas/courses get local business "sponsors" to donate dollars?

Now we're cooking with gas guys! Excellent, thoughtful points from ALL sides - exactlly what we need to move forward and take disc golf to the next level in Atlanta. The resources are here, and we obviously have those key people with a passion to make it happen. I'd like to know more about how the CDGC raised $$ for their courses. Might be worth a road trip up there.

Whoa! So much to read and absorb in one sitting.I wish I wasn't so busy looking for a job and rewriting my resume(s) all day so I could give this the attention it deserves. But eventually, you'll all get my opinion.

I will say in brief; so many of the dissenting comments I've read are right on. If not wholly, certainly in most part. Also, the ADGO BOD has already discussed a lot of these issues and believe me, they are among our most primary concerns. So keep your comments and opinions coming. But remember what 'billnchristy' said; Dissenting opinions are the foundation for great ideas if handled properly. There's no reason to get off track due to name calling and childish bickering.

Big Red wrote:It is wonderful that these discussions can occur here now because it was not that long ago that they would be shut down instantly. Real discussions have to be able to happen without fear of the thought police stopping them because the topics don't give everyone a warm feeling inside. I applaud the moderators for doing the right thing.

This message board is our public face and could be for a lot of those that provide us the land and resources to play Disc Golf, the only way to evaluate the value of their investment. Please keep that in mind.

One question hasn't been answered, or I missed the answer. Why not raise membership fees? Ritger said that there are over 300 active members in the ADGO right now. If you raise the membership fee to $50/year you're looking at $10,000 for the club and that's only if 2/3 of the active members pay in.

@Keith. I'm fully aware that you can't just go into a park and start changing things. I wouldn't attempt that at Rose Lane. It's by no means a National Tour caliber course, but it is one of the best courses in the state. There would be no need in changing a course that is already great. I realize that there are rules to go by and red tape to cross and you're right there is power in numbers. That applies to people and money. You can increase membership all day long. Even if you double the membership numbers to 600 you're still only looking at $7500. $10 for 300 renewals and $15 for 300 new members. What's the chance that the ADGO will be 600 strong? I'd say no chance. If we could approach parks and rec. with an organization backed by 300 members and a bank account in excess of $10,000, it would speak for itself. With that said, I find it hard to believe that the ADGO is 300 members strong, but it could be.

I'd like to know how many people would pay more for a club membership knowing that it would make significant change in our state. $50 a year isn't that big a deal.

I think that is a little excessive, but would certainly be feasible IF there was quantifiable proof that the money was being constructively used. The biggest problem with that "big" of an investment (It IS two tournies for us) is people will want to satisfy their agendas with their money. So if I was opposed to the 9 hole garden course that is 60 miles from my house when I wanted one 15 miles from the house I am going to be more vocal and the club ends up getting pulled in...what...300 directions?

Also, I personally feel that if you are going to get the counties behind the ideas of championship courses you should:

Remember your average "customer" is a guy and his wife with a beach frisbee and an aerobee ring that gets stuck in every tree on the course.

Also, kids. We ran into Gerrit at Lenora last weekend and he mentioned buying a discraft misprint lightweight pack that he gives out to kids he sees on course. The club buying a box of these per course and holding a "teach the kids" weekend would go a long way to get that government support you want.

It would be pretty amazing to have a small event in every park on one weekend and have members at each helping out, you couldn't deny the power and reach of the club if something like that got pulled off.

I am not even sure why Rec friendly courses exist at this point. You can go to some of the hardest courses in the world and you will see beginning players all over them while the rec course down the street is empty. That brings up another point which is courses that should be pulled or moved. I would sadly enough say that a course like Wills really just needs to be moved. The park has taken it over and it is just not a legit course anymore. Why not move those baskets to another park where a good course can be set up? This is the type of project that I think the ADGO could make a big difference in very easily.

Jay, I mis-spoke earlier about the # of active members ... we are up to member #303 per my list, but those aren't all active. So, I want to provide a breakdown of who has been active & when. Note that the club was "revived" in early 2007. I'd guess that our number for 2010 will push 100 given the awesome venue for the ADGO event @ Flyboy.

Have joined/renewed in 2010: 33Current through 2009: 56Current through 2008: 59Current through 2007: 66Original members, have not renewed since club was "revived": 88Total: 302Total active since 2007: 214

The other thing about the member events that hasn't been brought up is that they are the primary driver of membership joins/renewals. Without them, I think most people would not have a reason to renew. My observation has been that most people only renew to play in the events -- there are a handful of people that renew regardless, but its about 10 people -- so the events seem to be the tangible benefit that most people pay for. And we usually get about 10-15 new members @ each event.

I personally don't think that very many people would pay $50/year to the club, at least not now...maybe in a few years. Having $10k in the bank account to approach P&R with would be awesome, and powerful, and I think the CDGC has that type of $$ rolling through ... but I don't think it all comes from high membership fees. That said, we definitely need to explore other ways to generate revenue so we can pursue bigger tangible benefits. Other local clubs get revenue from club-affiliated leagues that they run & expanded club merchandising in addition to member fees. The ADGO could qualify for 501(c)(3) status so that we could approach donors/corporations with the ability for tax deductible donations, that's something we've thought about doing eventually.

Here's more stats for ya -- total membership fees collected by year ... its not that much ... again this is all posted in detail in the ADGO MEMBERS ONLY forum:2007 - $1,9102008 - $1,2182009 - $1,100

Jay -- you are ADGO member #162, btw ... so if you don't have access to the members forum let me know and we'll get you setup.

I knew that I was still a member even though I haven't renewed in 2-3 years. I do have access to that forum though, thanks. Shouldn't you lose perks if you don't renew? Seems like that would be an incentive to pay your $10 each year. I paid $15 back in 05, I think, maybe 06. As a matter of fact, I think Gomez paid my dues because of a lost bet, otherwise, I may not be a member. Neither here nor there.

Thanks for the numbers break down. To note, I don't think raised membership fees is the only answer, it is a start though. I talked to my buddy Scott that used to live down in Jacksonville. He said there club raised money through Domino's Pizza. He's going to get me more information, but it was a coupon deal they worked out. They purchased a coupon book for $1/each that sold for $10/each. Each coupon book had 16 BOGO coupons in it. It doesn't seem like much, but simple fund raisers like this go a long way. Let's face it, who doesn't like free pizza? I just think you would have better luck with this than you would with CFR disc's. We all have too much plastic and I'm sure a lot of the members share my sentiment when I say that I'm tired of having CFR discs shoved down my throat. Fatboy's like pizza!!!

I have several friends in the CDGC and Rocket City Cain Gang, I'll contact them today and see what methods they use to raise funds for there respective clubs. Just so it's clear, I don't think the ADGO needs to conform to the actions and guidelines of other clubs, but I do think that examples from a successful club could lay some ground work for the future success of the ADGO. If I'm off base with this thought process, please tell me and I won't waste my time.

To Big Red I am not talking about 50' holes and whatnot but NOT having a required 300' drive over a lake filled with alligators and water mocassins.

To me Alex is the perfect example of a rec course and a perfect example of an absolute success. Successful to the point of frustrating because you either have to go early or be unemployed to enjoy it. But it shows the demand and the need is there. It is also configurable to be more challenging...sure, it probably barely eclipses ERP red in SSA but the good players seem to like it for what it is....a fun course that has a little challenge and a great variety due to pin options.

Jay,Here is a link to the Jacksonville, Fl website. They still do the domino's pizza coupons. Info on the front page of website. Great tourney each year. I have played their tournament and it seems like the club is very active and they have some good ideas as far as fundrasing and course work.http://www.rcdga.org/

The only other club I'm familiar with is River City Flyers in St. Louis. Here's some of how they operate. Just to generate ideas - I'm not making recommendations.

Membership is $20/yr, new or renew. For that you get: bag tag, club stamped putter, eligibility for club events, discounted club merch, and entry to the club ace pool. Club bag tag is also the bag tag challenge tag, and they're only for bragging rights.

Nearly all local tournaments are club events (sanctioned or not). Non-members pay extra $5 entry fee that goes to the club. Club ace pool is in play at all club events. Not sure if the club provides the TD and collects the proceeds.

One club covers the whole area. The Illinois side has their own club. Of the 10 local courses, 5 are "managed"(not sure of the exact relationship with P&R) by the club, with assigned course captains and group decisions on course changes.

Their most successful recruiting comes from manning a sign-up table near hole 1 on warm spring mornings. Members volunteer to work the tables in shifts a couple hours at a time. All the membership materials are there for instant gratification. They also have member only events. Time spent volunteering is tracked - not sure if there's any awards.

I believe Mr. Bradshaw brought up the point of multiple clubs in the Atlanta area and many of us belong to more than one which puts most in the $40-$50 range for annual Atlanta area memberships. I do not know if this is common or uncommon in other metro areas. If it is are they all $20+ membership fees?

I'm sure if there was a "promise" of a new course you could get higher membership fees and even donations for that matter. I do think however that it can be a hard sell at times since we might as well be 2 different cities. If you are on the extreme east or west side of the city it can take you 1-1.5 hours (with no traffic) to get to courses on the other side of town. I think this is why smaller local clubs have been successful.

I don't think a bank statement with $10,000+ is required to get a park to "bite" on a disc golf project. Unfortunately a non-revenue generating project is always going to get moved to the back burner if considered at all for these parks. I certainly think we should entertain any and all potential parks, however I believe we need to make "friends" on the inside in hopes of making something happen sooner than later!

Anyone have a contact at Sweetwater Creek State Park or Red Top? I think state parks would have the most motivation since they typically charge an entrance fee and have a ton of unused land...

richardhead wrote:One question hasn't been answered, or I missed the answer. Why not raise membership fees? Ritger said that there are over 300 active members in the ADGO right now. If you raise the membership fee to $50/year you're looking at $10,000 for the club and that's only if 2/3 of the active members pay in.

@Keith. I'm fully aware that you can't just go into a park and start changing things. I wouldn't attempt that at Rose Lane. It's by no means a National Tour caliber course, but it is one of the best courses in the state. There would be no need in changing a course that is already great. I realize that there are rules to go by and red tape to cross and you're right there is power in numbers. That applies to people and money. You can increase membership all day long. Even if you double the membership numbers to 600 you're still only looking at $7500. $10 for 300 renewals and $15 for 300 new members. What's the chance that the ADGO will be 600 strong? I'd say no chance. If we could approach parks and rec. with an organization backed by 300 members and a bank account in excess of $10,000, it would speak for itself. With that said, I find it hard to believe that the ADGO is 300 members strong, but it could be.

I'd like to know how many people would pay more for a club membership knowing that it would make significant change in our state. $50 a year isn't that big a deal.

I know Innova has had quite a bit of success with state parks as it has actually generated enough revenue to warrant the expense which is the big difference. A revenue stream gets the attention of most when it comes to state parks which have a tough time bringing in people these day and especially during the week days...

Big Red wrote:That is a great suggestion. I have wondered if Red Top had the potential for a course and have been planning on going up there to see.

As long as they don't pull a Yargo. Most people refuse to pay for Yargo because they leave the course in complete disarray and seemingly pocket the course fee. If the course was actually maintained then I know I wouldn't have an issue paying for it.

I think they would know via other state park success stories that all you have to do is provide basic maintenance and the golfers will return time and time again. I don't think 90+% of people will balk at $2-$3 per car to get in...

billnchristy wrote:As long as they don't pull a Yargo. Most people refuse to pay for Yargo because they leave the course in complete disarray and seemingly pocket the course fee. If the course was actually maintained then I know I wouldn't have an issue paying for it.

billnchristy wrote:As long as they don't pull a Yargo. Most people refuse to pay for Yargo because they leave the course in complete disarray and seemingly pocket the course fee. If the course was actually maintained then I know I wouldn't have an issue paying for it.

1.00 or 2.00 to play a round or two at a State Park is not bad when you consider greens fees at ball golf courses. Unless you only play there you don't have to pay at many places so every once and a while, just like at Cloudland Canyon, you have to pay.

Oh, and Yargo now has tee pads. Not sure where the money or labor came from but I know logistically that must have cost some cash because of the terrain out there.

I live in TN and come down quite a bit to play all your courses and a few tournaments each year. my son and brother(and fam.) live here also, so I visit often and have always enjoyed the events i've played in.

I have always been envious of the ATL scene as compaired to mid-TN, we have 4 GREAT courses mixed into the 9 or so in the mid-tn area and I hate that there is not as much enthusiasm towards growing the sport in the area. Yeah we have a few really good tournaments each year, and there are local clubs that are involved with there home course, for weekly doubles and whatnot. but yall have a much better opinionated crowd. your all involved with the forum and things get taken care ofthe bottom line is the adverage golfer just wants to play and have fun.......I'd love to play the flyboy thing and would if i hadnt already signed up for BG ams

it could be much worse. be proud of what you have, theres always going to be work to do on all the courses, that will take volunteering, keep it up, the courses look good

As ive read through this thread I've seen a lot of good ideas, I just wanted to say GOOD LUCK to all you guys that are getting together and moving forward to grow the area. There is NO way to please everyone, I hope it all works out

I would love to only have to drive 3 hours when yall host the worlds in say.........2014...2015...

richardhead wrote:One question hasn't been answered, or I missed the answer. Why not raise membership fees? Ritger said that there are over 300 active members in the ADGO right now. If you raise the membership fee to $50/year you're looking at $10,000 for the club and that's only if 2/3 of the active members pay in.

@Keith. I'm fully aware that you can't just go into a park and start changing things. I wouldn't attempt that at Rose Lane. It's by no means a National Tour caliber course, but it is one of the best courses in the state. There would be no need in changing a course that is already great. I realize that there are rules to go by and red tape to cross and you're right there is power in numbers. That applies to people and money. You can increase membership all day long. Even if you double the membership numbers to 600 you're still only looking at $7500. $10 for 300 renewals and $15 for 300 new members. What's the chance that the ADGO will be 600 strong? I'd say no chance. If we could approach parks and rec. with an organization backed by 300 members and a bank account in excess of $10,000, it would speak for itself. With that said, I find it hard to believe that the ADGO is 300 members strong, but it could be.

I'd like to know how many people would pay more for a club membership knowing that it would make significant change in our state. $50 a year isn't that big a deal.

I love Toccoa by the way, and it uses what land it has to be a decent course, but you can't really have back and forth fairways on a "great course" for Event play. I was just using it as an example that you personally are working with to see what I was trying to say with "Hoping versus the Realities" of dealing with parks managements.

In response about member fees - I will say that if only 13,000+ members a year are willing to renew with the PDGA each year at $50 out of the 42,000+ available members - and alot complain that price is too high for what you get from the PDGA - it would be pretty difficult to get more than that percentage (25%) to want to pay 50 bucks for the ADGO mmebership every year when alot of them won't renew for 10 bucks even though it gets them FREE food at TWO events every year, plus $5 off their PDGA membership if so inclined, as well as the "numbers" when dealing with Park Managements.

Do you think "theP" would even be considered or that Alexander would have been approved if 1 person had gone to the Park Management and said "Hi - I'm Jay Phillips and I would like to have a disc golf course installed in this park for me and my buddies to play on"?

Or when going to them saying: "I'm Jay Phillips - an ADGO member - and we would like to propose putting a disc golf course in here. We can help provide labor and support of the 300+ person membership to help facilitate the process if you would approve it."

Believe me - numbers and support matter hugely to parks management - with Gwinett being a perfect example - for years they wouldn't listen to basket replacements - even without spending a dime - but then the GDGO forms and under the ADGO "umbrella" numbers and along with meeting with the county, not only were baskets replaced, but another park was offered up for baskets. It HAS to be a combination of people working with management, and the support of all these people willing to do fundraisers, donate baskets, put in labor hours, etc. for it all to work out like we hope and wish it will.

Also as Woody stated earlier, if you all would read the minutes, you'll see that these ideas and discussions have been going on within the BOD and with an ERP, Gwinett, and City of ATL people on the BOD, alot of cooperation and best practices with the cities/counties are being found out from the inside. It just makes going forward and getting things done much easier, and hopefully when the economy turns around, alot of this cooperation and goodwill will have paid off by the parks departments being more willing to work with the golfers in the area. At least this is my hope, as if they are working this decently with us overall in bad times - it has to be a good sign of how they would continue to work with us in better times.

Maybe we can take all of these ideas and bring them together....this just now came to me.........

I think the ADGO is a great thing and the guy from TN confirms that it is, but I think it is strecthed too far. Here is what I propose and yes it feeds off other suggestions.

1. Divide the ADGO into 4 divisions, IE North, South, East, West2. Appoint or Elect Division leaders to oversee things in their area.3. Focus divisional efforts on working on courses through the AGDO members4. Have each division host one major ADGO member event per year giving 4 per year5. Have divisional competitions with tournaments, leagues, bag tags etc then have seeds by division and one big tourney6. Come up with a points system involving fundraising, charity monies raised, public outreaches to better enhance knowledge of the game,have some reward for the points winning division7. raise money and members by division more-so then by the collective ADGO making memberships more personnal.

Dividing the ADGO into regions or divisions would seem to be the best way IMO to maximize member ideas/concerns while still keeping the ADGO as one BIG DG UNIT in Atlanta.

We have to keep in mind that cities like Jacksonville, Birmingham, Charlotte, Huntsville and whoever else do not have the size of the city and courses offered that the ATL and surrounding area have.

I really, really, really want to see the ADGO become stronger as it only betters the chances of a course in Dawson County or anywhere else, and makes DG in ATL a thing of beauty for the future.

I think you should keep the county clubs, this just seems to be a good way to further allocate ADGO resources in a more direct way. The ADGO oversees like 20 courses, 3 clubs, and who knows how many tournies. If we split it up with more emphasis on regions then I think more people would be obliged to not only help out, but be more proud of the ADGO. Especially if it gives every region a chance to host an ADGO member event.

County clubs, and the GDGO are great, in that it gives a direct relationship with the course and the county. Saying, for example with the GDGO that you guys I guess would be in the ADGO East and not only have GDGO members, but also ADGO East members might show the county exactly how many players are in your area. Being able to say you can refer to your regional heads as well as the ADGO BOD's would also seem to be a benefit.

It really does not seem to be a fair comparrisson to say that the Rocket City Chain Gang (Huntsville, AL) does so much more and has so much more money then the ADGO when their city is like 3 blocks of ATL and they only have 6 courses within 30 miles. Who else do the local payers have to turn to and give money to besides the PDGA.

Bobby, that's very similar to some of the ideas we've been talking about and how the discussion was focused at the last BOD meeting. The idea we discussed is that ideally the ADGO serves as a central, umbrella organization over the metro area with divisions in the form of county or city level clubs that are ADGO affiliated. These already exist for Cobb, Forsyth, Roswell & Gwinnett. We'd like to see local clubs for each area that has courses -- Redan (Dekalb), city of Atlanta, JP Moseley (clayton county?), Mccurry (fayette county). With ATL being such a sprawly MSA, it just makes sense to have a county or city level club comprised of people that live & pay tax in that area. They can interface with that county or city and oversee and manage the courses located in their area.

The ADGO would play a central role -- its umbrella function serves to make club appear bigger to the county (part of a 300+ member ADGO organization). The ADGO maintains the website and has representatives from each course attend ADGO meetings to discuss & coordinate everything. It could also serve as a fundraising entity with a 501(c)(3) to enable county level organizations to much more effectively raise $$ for their course. These are just a few examples -- note that this idea hasn't been fully thought out, but it seems like one of the most viable directions we've talked about.

When looking at how much the other clubs do, remember that we are 3 years old. This was revived in 2007. The last few years have been mostly focused on organizational efforts. Also think about how much easier it would be to have an impact if we were dealing with a smaller, single government entity -- Huntsville is likely dealing with one or two government bodies, versus 10 metro & multiple city governments here.

keith johnson wrote:Believe me - numbers and support matter hugely to parks management - with Gwinett being a perfect example - for years they wouldn't listen to basket replacements - even without spending a dime - but then the GDGO forms and under the ADGO "umbrella" numbers and along with meeting with the county, not only were baskets replaced, but another park was offered up for baskets. It HAS to be a combination of people working with management, and the support of all these people willing to do fundraisers, donate baskets, put in labor hours, etc. for it all to work out like we hope and wish it will.

Great point! For a couple of years I had tried to get disc golf beginners class at Lenora to grow more interest in the sport. There were too few sign ups so the county decided not to go this route anymore. With Alexander going in, Lenora has become more under used and the county wondered how it could be bring more people to Lenora. The county wanted to know what they could offer to golfers as an incentive to come out and play the course. Using the ADGO website and with assistance from the GDGO there is now a chance for county supported league. I say chance because if it not met with decent support from golfers the league will go the way of my previous attempts. The county will lay out for the cost of the tags, close the course for just the league players and offer trophies at the end of each season. The cost is $20 for each season the GDGO will get $5 of that administer the league. This, if attended well, will arguably be the first significant money the county will make off disc golf. Not to mention be a great fundraiser for the GDGO. The league will be capped at 72 players a season (3x $360 to the club, $1080 to the county). Everybody benefits! The county gets paying people on the course, the local club gets funds to run its operations, the parent club has an inroad to use as an example for other counties to follow and the golfers have a legitimate (Read $) venue like baseball and soccer in place so that there voice will not be overlooked as in the past. This is a prime example of where an individual (me), working with parks managment(Lenora Guys), supported by a local club(GDGO), using the resources of the parent club(ADGO Website) can combine to further the sport.

Where this can go wrong- People will not want to play because its at Lenora instead of ______ course or not want to play Bag Tags and not support it. If that happens then why would the county want more courses or improve existing ones.

Where this can go right- It is well attended and the county will expand the leagues to include other courses, a Handicap league, Team golf, Juniors and Women's programs etc...because there is a desire for them.

Maybe if we went the route of having both county clubs and ADGO regions, the ADGO could be even more structured!

County clubs would be great but there are only 3 on here repping 5 courses. Cobb has a club, but no place on the board. If we divide into regions, and select regions leaders, those leaders could spear the effort to make more county clubs. So that would make ADGO BOD to oversee erverything and all the efforts, Region leaders to be directed to promoting and maintaining DG in certain areas, county clubs to deal directly with the counties and parks involved, and of course ADGO members.

I think maybe the ADGO club fee should be raised and in doing so you could be a member of the ADGO and the county club which you live in and not pay for two different things. Maybe even work in conjunction with the PDGA and offer one fee for all THREE!!! Right now if you join the Cobb DGC you pay $25, ADGO $15 and PDGA $50. Why not pair em all up and say for $75 a year you get the PDGA membership and all of its perks, ADGO membership with its perks, and you get placed into the Cobb DGC (or whatever county u live in) and all of its perks.

Another thought if we want to get more PDGA and tournament playing members, offer a deal where if you become a member of the ADGO the first tourney you play the ADGO will pay your non-PDGA fee, if you like it then you can pay and join the PDGA with the club discount, if not you don't worry about it any more.

I don't know how many people will jump on that but I would imagine having large numbers of members in both would mean something...if nothing it means that we are serious about disc golf and its success.

It doesn't have to be about whether you like the PDGA or not, it can simply be are you going to play 5 tourneys a year? Might as well join then.

billnchristy wrote:Another thought if we want to get more PDGA and tournament playing members, offer a deal where if you become a member of the ADGO the first tourney you play the ADGO will pay your non-PDGA fee, if you like it then you can pay and join the PDGA with the club discount, if not you don't worry about it any more.

I don't know how many people will jump on that but I would imagine having large numbers of members in both would mean something...if nothing it means that we are serious about disc golf and its success.

It doesn't have to be about whether you like the PDGA or not, it can simply be are you going to play 5 tourneys a year? Might as well join then.

That doesn't sound like a great idea. Considering the ADGO membership is $20 and the non-current PDGA membership charge is $10. You already have the advantage of $10 off PDGA memberships if you are a member of the ADGO. The PDGA is a great resource if you want to track your standing and receive a magazine. For the casual player who plays one or two sanctioned tournaments a year, it may not be worth the money. Either way, the ADGO should not have to entice anyone to join the PDGA.

billnchristy wrote:Another thought if we want to get more PDGA and tournament playing members, offer a deal where if you become a member of the ADGO the first tourney you play the ADGO will pay your non-PDGA fee, if you like it then you can pay and join the PDGA with the club discount, if not you don't worry about it any more.

I don't know how many people will jump on that but I would imagine having large numbers of members in both would mean something...if nothing it means that we are serious about disc golf and its success.

It doesn't have to be about whether you like the PDGA or not, it can simply be are you going to play 5 tourneys a year? Might as well join then.

That doesn't sound like a great idea. Considering the ADGO membership is $20 and the non-current PDGA membership charge is $10. You already have the advantage of $10 off PDGA memberships if you are a member of the ADGO. The PDGA is a great resource if you want to track your standing and receive a magazine. For the casual player who plays one or two sanctioned tournaments a year, it may not be worth the money. Either way, the ADGO should not have to entice anyone to join the PDGA.

$15 to join ADGO as new, $10 renew - and you get $5 off with ADGO Affiliate club discount, but whose counting?

The new $10 support discount you get from the PDGA if you play in a PDGA Sanctioned Event as a non member and then join the PDGA after the Event is also another benefit if you plan to keep playing Evnets during the rest of the year.

I'm not advocating the ADGO buying PDGA Memberships for anyone, I was just puttng out the accurate #'s - and letting people know some of the new things the PDGA was doing to entice Event playing non members into saving some money when they join.

Of course! These are types of discussions I have been hoping to have. I think as a organization we need to have full member meetings just so everyone knows what are trying to do and why we are doing it. Plus we can get some great ideas from having more people involved.

Open the meetings once a quarter to start even. Give everyone who comes an abridged version of Robert's Rules so people know when they should and shouldn't add to the discussion so that the meeting moves.

I still feel like you guys are missing the boat a bit. As a member, I should understand that once or twice a year the membership will take on a course (that I may or may not play or care that much about personally) and go out spend money for trees, bridges, markers, directional signage whatever and make a difference (500 bucks and the talents & resources that we have in our org can go a long way). Let that park's P&R know that the ADGO is showing up in mass, take pictures, get the park to write a letter saying how great and supportive the ADGO is and plot the next challenge. You could have course reps propose their plans to the BOD once per year and have the membership vote on the top 3 proposals selected ahead of time by the BOD from all the entries based on need, merit, etc.

I never thought that ADGO would drop 3000 bucks worth of tee pads anywhere. But I think that the idea above goes much further than sponsoring tee-signs at tournaments. We ought to start with Wills, as that is a centrally located park that we are in most danger of losing. Maybe the wooded area next to 11 poses opportunities. 30 - 50 people in there could make a huge difference. we could certainly put markers and directional signage up so that people can navigate that place easier as-is.

Living in the United States where the hottest European import is Plutocracy...

I agree, I do not even think the teesigns at the WO event had distances on them, I hate to sound cruel, but what was the benefit for the player in having them? How much of the sponsors money is kept versus how much is used to make the sign?

There is not any ADGO or FCDGC presence at Central Park. I do not event think anything mentions either one in the kiosk out there. Why not?

People have been proposing changes to Wills just like CP now for years, but none ever listens and noone ever says "yeah lets try and do that!" It just baffles me. I have gotten Phil Arthur to come out and give suggestions to me about how to make the Gold Layout more enjoyable for pros and also give suggestions about the course in geneveral. I will use that to propose suttle changes to the CP powers that be, but nothing will probably happen. I seem to be the only one excited about it and greatful he will come out and help. Yet again, it baffles me.

I'm not bitching, just saying that priorities for change, and the desirse to DO SOMETHING for the better of the sport seem to be almost shunned upon. This will pep some peeps up, haha, good responses coming I am sure!

Funky Bobby J wrote:Open the meetings once a quarter to start even. Give everyone who comes an abridged version of Robert's Rules so people know when they should and shouldn't add to the discussion so that the meeting moves.

I still feel like you guys are missing the boat a bit. As a member, I should understand that once or twice a year the membership will take on a course (that I may or may not play or care that much about personally) and go out spend money for trees, bridges, markers, directional signage whatever and make a difference (500 bucks and the talents & resources that we have in our org can go a long way). Let that park's P&R know that the ADGO is showing up in mass, take pictures, get the park to write a letter saying how great and supportive the ADGO is and plot the next challenge. You could have course reps propose their plans to the BOD once per year and have the membership vote on the top 3 proposals selected ahead of time by the BOD from all the entries based on need, merit, etc.

I never thought that ADGO would drop 3000 bucks worth of tee pads anywhere. But I think that the idea above goes much further than sponsoring tee-signs at tournaments. We ought to start with Wills, as that is a centrally located park that we are in most danger of losing. Maybe the wooded area next to 11 poses opportunities. 30 - 50 people in there could make a huge difference. we could certainly put markers and directional signage up so that people can navigate that place easier as-is.

I agree with this, we have the knowledge and talent among all the golfers and their chosen careers that we could get a lot of stuff accomplished, we just need a solid plan of attack. Focus on the courses we have first and show the P&R folks what we can do and then talk to them about expansion.

Here's where the ADGO membership director could be of use (not saying he's not now). A questionaire for each member listing home course, skills or areas of expertise that could benefit the club. Group people by home course and get them to contact their P&R people in the clubs name. The club will be aware of who is talking to whom and can use the pre-existing relationship to facilitate improvements at each course. This will only work if people step up and are active. I live right next to Alexander but I have a good working relationship with Ronnie and Keith at Lenora so I will volunteer to run point on anything pertaining to there. What other members already have this relationship?

Corndawg13 wrote:I agree, I do not even think the teesigns at the WO event had distances on them, I hate to sound cruel, but what was the benefit for the player in having them? How much of the sponsors money is kept versus how much is used to make the sign?

There is not any ADGO or FCDGC presence at Central Park. I do not event think anything mentions either one in the kiosk out there. Why not?

People have been proposing changes to Wills just like CP now for years, but none ever listens and noone ever says "yeah lets try and do that!" It just baffles me. I have gotten Phil Arthur to come out and give suggestions to me about how to make the Gold Layout more enjoyable for pros and also give suggestions about the course in geneveral. I will use that to propose suttle changes to the CP powers that be, but nothing will probably happen. I seem to be the only one excited about it and greatful he will come out and help. Yet again, it baffles me.

I'm not bitching, just saying that priorities for change, and the desirse to DO SOMETHING for the better of the sport seem to be almost shunned upon. This will pep some peeps up, haha, good responses coming I am sure!

Alright chief, first of all, no one but me from Central even checks the the message board. Second of all, the 4-6 people that have busted their butts out there over the last 2 years are weary about being the only ones busting our butts out there (that are not on work release I should qualify). We are up against a fairly apathetic regime and fan base. Things are being done behind the scenes that you are not aware of. A redesign is an interesting idea that should be floated, but it is going to take a lot of prep work emotionally, politically, and labor-ly. So cool your jets a bit sparky, these things take time. We'll have another work day before the AO when the weather warms up and you can get yourself worked up into a lather all over again... AHHHH, noobs -they are so cute...

Living in the United States where the hottest European import is Plutocracy...

By 4-6 people doing things I would imagine my name should come up since I have made all the work days over the past year chief. Just saying, never met you out there though. Two guys named Bobby and you'd figure they would meet at a workday. Well go ahead and share the "behind the scnes" stuff FBJ.

Otherwise, keep the good ideas coming. Maybe someone from the ADGO will pick one up and roll with it. I expect this discussion has made some people realize that there's a ton of passionate people out there that are just trying to get things going in the right direction.

Corndawg13 wrote:By 4-6 people doing things I would imagine my name should come up since I have made all the work days over the past year chief. Just saying, never met you out there though. Two guys named Bobby and you'd figure they would meet at a workday. Well go ahead and share the "behind the scnes" stuff FBJ.

Noob my ass, you do not even know who I am probably.

You are right in that I could not come out and help with Keith's project. Dave Kenney has been talking to Matt Pate regularly about what the park can do. They are going to supply anchors, replacement flags and hopefully poles for the rest of the signs.

All I am saying is that there are a lot of folks with skin in the game emotionally or otherwise. I am all for changing the course, but it takes time. The reason that you do not see me out there much is because I play everywhere else, because I think CP is not the most exciting circuit (saturdays with the kids). As my home course, I try to support it. It has been like pulling teeth to get where we are even. Your unbridaled enthusiasm is great, but it takes time and patience. There are probably 10 people or more that have played rounds with Phil Arthur out there asking for suggestions. He is a great resource for knowledge.

CP asked that one person be the spokesperson from the "club", that's Dave Kenney. FCP&R really couldn't care less about disc golf - we are a pain in the butt (ask Rand or Keith how helpful CP is), but we are making progress. How long did it take the Gwinnett's club to wear down the powers that be?

Lastly, about the workday numbers, the faces change slightly, but it is always 4-6 people. I'll see you out for the AO work day or Flyboy and am happy to share some of the history. It may be a great time for you to talk to Dave Kenney and take the ball and run with it. He'd probably gladly hand it off.

To billnchristy - touche' point taken

Moderator - you are welcome to bust this out into the CP thread...

Living in the United States where the hottest European import is Plutocracy...

The ADGO is only for Kieth Johnson to promote himself and capitalize.I have said this from the start.You never see the ADGO reach out to the school system to grow the sport.they only do it through the PDGA scams. in running tournaments,

BAM wrote:The ADGO is only for Kieth Johnson to promote himself and capitalize.I have said this from the start.You never see the ADGO reach out to the school system to grow the sport.they only do it through the PDGA scams. in running tournaments,

BAM wrote:The ADGO is only for Kieth Johnson to promote himself and capitalize.I have said this from the start.You never see the ADGO reach out to the school system to grow the sport.they only do it through the PDGA scams. in running tournaments,

Have you seen Keith's new Denali? Wicked nice! Personalized license plate says "PAID4BYU". He needed it to pull his yacht, the SS GSSS. I can't wait to take a cruise at Lake Russell in it. I hear it has a Pepsi barbuilt in.

grease wrote:Have you seen Keith's new Denali? Wicked nice! Personalized license plate says "PAID4BYU". He needed it to pull his yacht, the SS GSSS. I can't wait to take a cruise at Lake Russell in it. I hear it has a Pepsi barbuilt in.

I don't know about the Pepsi Bar, but it does have a Nakamichi Stereo that only plays Styx songs.

Okay guys; I'll give you all a day to clean up this mess. Then I'm moving all the drivel to another forum. Let's get back on track, because this can be really helpful and I'd hate to see it end up like every other idiotic thread on here.

No fair!!! I wasn't on the CPU last night. Now I don't get my chance to slam Chuck for being a stupid worthless redneck. Too bad I was busy making tournament plans with the Toccoa scam artist. He has to teach me all of his evil ways. Oh well, I'm sure there will be another chance for me to let Chuck know that he is hated and unwanted.

richardhead wrote:No fair!!! I wasn't on the CPU last night. Now I don't get my chance to slam Chuck for being a stupid worthless redneck. Too bad I was busy making tournament plans with the Toccoa scam artist. He has to teach me all of his evil ways. Oh well, I'm sure there will be another chance for me to let Chuck know that he is hated and unwanted.

richardhead wrote:No fair!!! I wasn't on the CPU last night. Now I don't get my chance to slam Chuck for being a stupid worthless redneck. Too bad I was busy making tournament plans with the Toccoa scam artist. He has to teach me all of his evil ways. Oh well, I'm sure there will be another chance for me to let Chuck know that he is hated and unwanted.

I meant more so an ACTUAL tournament style event where ADGO members get ranked by PDGA number and play one another head to head to determine a club champ for each level. I think that would be cool.

Not sure I follow. That sounds like the plan for Saturday during the ADGO weekend @ Flyboy. It's an actual tourney (non-sanctioned) that will have 100+ people playing head to head singles in 4 divisions (Pro, Adv, Int, Rec).

Well ok, let's see here. Take the WO event last weekend in my intermediate divison. Scott Prandy has the highest rating in the division and I woould not have one, so technically I would have the lowest rating at that time. Scott and I would play each other head to head somewhere, and the winner of that match would advance. Ryan Dickerson vs Chris Hawkins would be another match. The winner of the match moves on. A knock out style tourney, it would take a while, but be a lot of fun. little money involved if any, and just for bragging rights. The winners would be the Club Champs per divison and would be determined by playing people head to head. Like March Madness.

right now the only match play action in the area is run by Wookie in December @ Redan for the ATL Bag Tags. he ranks everyone by tag rank and goes from there with a bracket; its at the end of the season.

Alright, maybe this is something FBJ and I could possibly do and combine match play with his CP fundraiser or something?? I am meeting and playing with him today so him and I may talk about it.

I will start figuring out the best ways to do it. Maybe do it every weekend for a month or a certain weekend of the month for a few months and use multiple courses. CP, McCurry, Perkerson (maybe Ritger??), Flyboy (maybe Kelly??), ERP.

There is a lot to consider in order to make it as "fair" as possible and challenging for all divisions. Damn, I guess I gotta join the ADGO now!!!

I will start a new thread about it next week to keep the focus here on ADGO improvements/suggestions.

Contact the Sauls brothers on the PDGA message board. They run a highly successful Match Play event at Earlewood every year. David Sauls gave me a ton of information when I was planning a Match Play event for the ATL. Unfortunately there weren't many people that wanted the event so I never pushed through with it. He will be more than willing to give you information on his tournament.

I don't now remember who said this, but it's the one thing on this post I've seen that would most help out the course I run. I'm not currently ADGO member (hell, I'm about the only person who plays down here) but I'd join if it considered the Monty in its "daily dealings".

No nothing that major but you don't see tournaments run on 4 different course like you do in other places too...might just be because nobody wants to deal with it but such a large area should have more than 1 major event every year don't you think?

Just trying to spark debate in downtime between orders...'suppose I need to go draw a picture or something since no-ones biting.

billnchristy wrote:No nothing that major but you don't see tournaments run on 4 different course like you do in other places too...might just be because nobody wants to deal with it but such a large area should have more than 1 major event every year don't you think?

Have you ever tried playing four different Atlanta disc golf courses in a two day stretch? not easy...even with days off. That almost sounds like a challange. Atlanta DG suffers from an Atlanta disease:urban sprawl. I'd personally like to see the worlds here. I believe we're maybe 1-2 above average courses away from having all the courses in a 45 min radius of tournament central. The only place for tournament central that even makes sense is Downtown (Thanks Keith I remember our conversation). And even then trying to get players to from their respected courses within 45 min of downtown would be difficult because of traffic patterns. Plus add the fact that a quality tounament hotel would be a bit on the pricey side for a discgolfers taste.

Why not use the club to acquire corporate sponsorships for an entire tournament season? Acquire them in blocks just like you do for tournaments but on a much grander scale. Then TDs could petition for a portion of the funds based on tier/turn out expectancy etc...

Example:

Gold sponsor: $1000

Max draw from each tier:

Non-sanctioned: 5%C-tier: 10%B-tier: 15%A-tier: 25%M or NT: 40%

etc etc

In this example "Joe's Moose Lodge" could sponsor 10 c-tier tournaments and receive all the advertisements as such plus all the perks like being featured on the main page etc...

billnchristy wrote:No nothing that major but you don't see tournaments run on 4 different course like you do in other places too...might just be because nobody wants to deal with it but such a large area should have more than 1 major event every year don't you think?

Have you ever tried playing four different Atlanta disc golf courses in a two day stretch? not easy...even with days off. That almost sounds like a challange. Atlanta DG suffers from an Atlanta disease:urban sprawl. I'd personally like to see the worlds here. I believe we're maybe 1-2 above average courses away from having all the courses in a 45 min radius of tournament central. The only place for tournament central that even makes sense is Downtown (Thanks Keith I remember our conversation). And even then trying to get players to from their respected courses within 45 min of downtown would be difficult because of traffic patterns. Plus add the fact that a quality tounament hotel would be a bit on the pricey side for a discgolfers taste.

One idea I have had about this is to run Worlds on the 316 corridor, if there were enough courses to do it. Sucks we couldn't use Lake Russell probably because of distance, but there are almost enough courses, might not be worlds caliber I guess, to make it happen. If we could use the Crucible that would take care of two right there with Sandy Creek, plus Yargo, and come up with a few more.

billnchristy wrote:Here is a thought:Why not use the club to acquire corporate sponsorships for an entire tournament season? Acquire them in blocks just like you do for tournaments but on a much grander scale. Then TDs could petition for a portion of the funds based on tier/turn out expectancy etc...Example:Gold sponsor: $1000Max draw from each tier:Non-sanctioned: 5%C-tier: 10%B-tier: 15%A-tier: 25%M or NT: 40%etc etcIn this example "Joe's Moose Lodge" could sponsor 10 c-tier tournaments and receive all the advertisements as such plus all the perks like being featured on the main page etc...

I will see about putting sometrhing along those lines up at the next BOD meeting

billnchristy wrote:No nothing that major but you don't see tournaments run on 4 different course like you do in other places too...might just be because nobody wants to deal with it but such a large area should have more than 1 major event every year don't you think?

Have you ever tried playing four different Atlanta disc golf courses in a two day stretch? not easy...even with days off. That almost sounds like a challange. Atlanta DG suffers from an Atlanta disease:urban sprawl. I'd personally like to see the worlds here. I believe we're maybe 1-2 above average courses away from having all the courses in a 45 min radius of tournament central. The only place for tournament central that even makes sense is Downtown (Thanks Keith I remember our conversation). And even then trying to get players to from their respected courses within 45 min of downtown would be difficult because of traffic patterns. Plus add the fact that a quality tounament hotel would be a bit on the pricey side for a discgolfers taste.

One idea I have had about this is to run Worlds on the 316 corridor, if there were enough courses to do it. Sucks we couldn't use Lake Russell probably because of distance, but there are almost enough courses, might not be worlds caliber I guess, to make it happen. If we could use the Crucible that would take care of two right there with Sandy Creek, plus Yargo, and come up with a few more.

If/when Oconee gets their championship course at Veterans park you would have it made.

I know where you are coming from Bill - but the club doesn't schedule ANY Events except member Events twice a year.

Everything else is done by INDIVIDUALS who choose what they think works best for them and parks they work with.If Events are SANCTIONED - then as State Coordinator I let the second people asking know what is up, but for unsanctioned Events or unsanctioned against Sanctioned Events - that is really up to the TD's involved to try to work it out amongst themselves as best as they can - All I personally do is post the dates and locations as a public service for others to see here on ADGO board to help with hopefully avoiding scheduling conflicts.

But with the growing number of courses and players in the state, every year it's get harder to avoid conflicts, and in some ways that could be a good thing as more and more it seems like hopefully there are enough players to go around.

keith johnson wrote:But with the growing number of courses and players in the state, every year it's get harder to avoid conflicts, and in some ways that could be a good thing as more and more it seems like hopefully there are enough players to go around.

This is true. There almost aren't any weekends when there isn't something going on somewhere around metro Atlanta. It's becoming a matter of avoiding conflicts with tournaments on your own side of town, and then when the weather doesn't cooperate the best laid plans can be blown out of the water.

I had a thought on Saturday about how small a percentage of the DG community this board and this club serves. This occured to me after numerous groups and not just TDDs but people who had full bags of gear came to the course to play not realizing there was a tournament.

Now obviously no form of communication is going to meet everyones needs and there are always going to be those that don't or can't read but I would not be surprised if we even hit 10% of the market.

I have also noticed that printed media seems to reach the women better than anything else thus far...I would have thought facebook would be and maybe it would be but I don't know enough of the area casual players to make a difference there.

I think an ADGO "what we are" flyer at every course bulletin board is a start and courses that don't have a bulletin board maybe can have one built by the ADGO.

Good idea. The bulletin boards is a definite need. We should have info posted on every bulletin board @ every course about the club, about other courses in the area, the website, and events (leagues, tournies, etc).

Courses that have bulletin boards/kiosks should have some printed media already with our logo and website address. I guess we could have more on it but in my opinion a flyer with just that attracts more attention that a piece of paper lots of fine print. Golfers coming to a course for the first time might read the kiosk but subsequent times with less and less frequency. I mean let's be honest...when was the last time you looked at the kiosk at Redan, Central, McCurry, or ERP. Couple weeks ago? Several months ago? People usually rush to a course to play a quick round with friends...and that's it.

As communication director the responsibility of "getting the word out" really rest in my hands. While printed media is good I really think that new media is a better way to focus our efforts. Social media website like Facebook and Twitter are very popular means for dispensing information. Disc golf oriented social media websites have been began to spring up within the last two years with Discgolfer.R.Us, DiscGolfScene, AceRunners and to some extent DGCourseReview. Unfortunately it seems and has always been the case that disc golfers on the average lag 5-10 year behind technology wise. So even this new media also won't solve the issue of communication but it is becoming more and more popular. How many of you knew we had a Facebook page? How about a Twitter page? Probably not many of you since those pages didn't exist until a few weeks ago.

Really I think communication of events/tournaments/club related stuff starts with the individual member. How many times have you gone to a course, played a round and ignored all the "barneys" playing the course at the same time. Perhaps you played through a supergroup or two. Did you see a family playing? Well what did you do to educate them on this website or the club? Every member of the ADGO (active or not) is a disc golf ambassador. We as members should be talking to our fellow golfers. I talk to individuals all the time while I am playing. Instead of playing through that supergroup I play with them for a few holes and find out a little about each of them.