So Shadow Fire is a 25 second 35% ranger attack buff with a 20 second cooldown, so basically a permanent 35% attack buff after the first shot. It's awesome. And I'm sure they will be changing that cooldown.

i feel fairly confident when I say that I think they over did the rogue buffs. Marksman, Ranger, Bladedancer and Assassin all just got really good in pvp.

I'd have to disagree. The rogue was by far the weakest of the souls even compared to the mage souls (except for the pyromancer). They were adequate in PvE and close to useless in high level PvP. When a 50 rogue from stealth and using a stun still couldn't get any other class (even the paper wearing mages) below 50% before they got away then something was wrong. I gave up on my rogue at 30 because every other soul/class combo could kill the same mobs quicker and easier and with more health left.

Looking forward to trying out the new 1.2 patch. Way too many patch notes to list here but I'm really looking forward to the LFD tool, the AH and crafting improvements and I may even try my rogue out again

that's where you're 100% wrong though. I am a 50 rogue and I have 100's and 100's of kills on other 50's of all classes. Many times I jump groups 1v2 or 1v3 and still came out on top.

you gave up at 30, (where rogues were even more powerful compared to other classes fwiw, they got weaker at 50) so without trying to be rude you really don't know what you're talking about. Tons of people complained all the time on the forums, but for the most part they are all just very bad rogue players. Playing a rogue was difficult, but there were only a couple builds that were problematic to play against. (warlock armor ruins us, pyros actually are easy if you get your opener btw (unless they have warlock armor as well))

I was 51 assassin/15 infiltrator btw.

I'd fail a gank MAYBE 1 or 2 times a night and usually gained between 80-100 kills an evening (non-WF, I hate WF's) all on 50's and groups of 50's in Stillmoor.

Question now is which build to use as a rogue. Looks like there are several viable options now, instead of just 1-2, for PvP. Sin/BD/NB looks like a decent one for melee, and Ranger/Sin/MM just started looking a bit better too.

that's where you're 100% wrong though. I am a 50 rogue and I have 100's and 100's of kills on other 50's of all classes. Many times I jump groups 1v2 or 1v3 and still came out on top.

you gave up at 30, (where rogues were even more powerful compared to other classes fwiw, they got weaker at 50) so without trying to be rude you really don't know what you're talking about. Tons of people complained all the time on the forums, but for the most part they are all just very bad rogue players. Playing a rogue was difficult, but there were only a couple builds that were problematic to play against. (warlock armor ruins us, pyros actually are easy if you get your opener btw (unless they have warlock armor as well))

I was 51 assassin/15 infiltrator btw.

I'd fail a gank MAYBE 1 or 2 times a night and usually gained between 80-100 kills an evening (non-WF, I hate WF's) all on 50's and groups of 50's in Stillmoor.

You say I'm wrong but then claim rogues were more powerful than other classes at 30...my other three classes would all beg to differ. I easily exceeded the survivability and dps of my rogue in every case. Still, I'm not going to argue PvP in a PvE game. Rift is PvE...no realm vs realm, no open warfare and it wasn't designed for solo or 1v2 PvP in any way. I'm sure PvP in a zone where everyone is questing, dodging mobs, reading quest text and everything else is easier but the bulk of people are PvE and the devs obviously agreed with the majority of people who thought the rogue was way, way underpowered at all levels past 20.

I already answered that by saying that you, and the majority of rogues didn't play them 'properly'. Assassin and Nightblade combo was more than enough at 30 to take on most class combos. At 50, full assassin could handle anyone that wasn't full heal or warlock armored.

The other classes have a lower skill cap and are easier to play, that's why non-competitive minded people play better with them.

on please Hark, rogues suck in pvp wfs, even you admit you dont play wfs. Sure rogues could gank people in wpvp since people were not looking for pvp in the world since its non existant.

If you tried your same strategy in wfs than you did in wpvp , you would of been eaten alive. You pop out of stealth, before you can finish someone off, you get stunned, your victim healed, and since likely you are near the front lines at this point with your pants down, you get blown up. Pyros melt face in a second or two.

I lived it, I had over 20,000 kills in wfs, and if I was a pyro I could of doubled that probably.

Rifestalkers were decent as runners, and horn grabbers, not much else. I had over 10k hits, tons of immunity etc, but I hit like a feather. Sins were good only in wpvp, all range rogues were jokes. NBs were OK, but just that OK, Pyros have wrecked pvp , I have never ever seen a more OP class ever in all my days of pvp.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 02:18:09 AM by tcweidner »

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on please Hark, rogues suck in pvp wfs, even you admit you dont play wfs. Sure rogues could gank people in wpvp since people were not looking for pvp in the world since its non existant.

If you tried your same strategy in wfs than you did in wpvp , you would of been eaten alive. You pop out of stealth, before you can finish someone off, you get stunned, your victim healed, and since likely you are near the front lines at this point with your pants down, you get blown up. Pyros melt face in a second or two.

I lived it, I had over 20,000 kills in wfs, and if I was a pyro I could of doubled that probably.

Rifestalkers were decent as runners, and horn grabbers, not much else. I had over 10k hits, tons of immunity etc, but I hit like a feather.

I'm not sure Hark was even talking about WF pvp, only open pvp. I can't comment on open pvp in other servers, but on Sunrest I've had open pvp everytime I played.

I was on sunrest from day 1 too, open pvp is basically none existent, other than some gate ganking and the like. Hell noone left the city at 50. You just did dailies, ran raids,and those that pvp, pop wfs. Iam in the Guardian guild, and we have fueds with some defiant guilds, yet even now , open pvp really doesnt happen.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 02:26:03 AM by tcweidner »

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I do tons of open pvp every day in Stillmoor, not sure where you are, but you're not looking hard enough I guess.

I don't like WF's, never have liked battlegrounds. If I wanted to play a battleground I'd fire up COD or Brink. (btw, I have played a few WF's though, and I did just fine. There will always be people who get separated from the pack. In addition when group meets group if I jump on a cleric, they tend to start healing themselves and my group gets a break)

I'm not sure Hark was even talking about WF pvp, only open pvp. I can't comment on open pvp in other servers, but on Sunrest I've had open pvp everytime I played.

Yeah, but open world PvP with a rogue isn't hard when you're ganking players 3 levels below you while they're in their PvE spec and fighting mobs, which is Hark's MO. He's no doubt a talented rogue and doing that is probably a good tactic to build up kill counts and level your PvP side, but it's also like shooting fish in a barrel.

As such, it can be very hard to compare a rogue in open world PvP versus another class, simply because the rogue is almost always going to strike from a position of stealth (and therefore have the advantage) versus other classes which are seen coming from a mile away. As such, it's typical for a rogue to be extremely overpowered in world PvP and extremely underpowered in warfront PvP just due to the preparation (spec, mindset) of the opposition. Which very well may be the case in RIFT.

Well, I have to agree with Hark here for the most part. At 50 it is tougher, but for the most part in WFs in the 40s I have been able to take on just about anything other than clerics and beat them at equal level one on one. And I do use stealth whenever possible -- its been very effective in Codex and Whitefall for holding control points or planning a coordinated assault on the opponent's flag.

Actually, here's a good story -- in Whitefall the other day, as often happens in a match, the Defiants and Guardians were both hiding in their fortresses with the other team's rock. I snuck over to spy on them and looked for an opportunity to kill the one carrying our rock so we could get a point. Patiently I waited for them to get a bit impatatient, and sure enough eventually they started leaving to try and attack us and recover their rock. Left alone at the fort were a cleric and a warrior carrying our rock. I snuck in, incapacitated the cleric, and beatdown the warrior (slowing him) fast enough so that he couldn't get to to the life boost orb found in each encampment.

This was all done in an Assassin/RS/Ranger build (I have yet to tailor this for the new patch), which sacrifices a bit of dps for more hardiness and escape opportunities. Forget clerics though, unless I get a serious jump on them, I can't kill them alone, but I can distract them as Hark mentions.

Now, I also agree that pyros are OP, but typically their real bonus is when 2 of them stand together in WFs and spam AoEs. Very effective near control points in Codex or near the rockcarrier in BG. I'm not sure how the patch is affecting them yet because I couldn't play yesterday due to choppiness introduced with this patch. Apparently, the developers left the error handler on in full debug.

noone is talking about the 40's . we are talking endgame. Rogues are OK at best, but mostly underpowered. This new patch may change things, but for me, the pvp in this game is lacking and boring.

Stillmoor really Hark? how is ganking someone during their dailies pvp? its just annoying to people. As I stated I played nothing but rogue since start, racked up around 400,000 favor. Dont think im resubbing. I did overall win way more wfs than I lost, so its not sour apples either, just boring ,unbalanced, design. Getting killed over and over by some 14 your olds spamming macros in an overpowered class is hardly what I call good design.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 06:07:45 PM by tcweidner »

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noone is talking about the 40's . we are talking endgame. Rogues are OK at best, but mostly underpowered. This new patch may change things, but for me, the pvp in this game is lacking and boring.

Stillmoor really Hark? how is ganking someone during their dailies pvp? its just annoying to people. As I stated I played nothing but rogue since start, racked up around 400,000 favor. Dont think im resubbing. I did overall win way more wfs than I lost, so its not sour apples either, just boring ,unbalanced, design. Getting killed over and over by some 14 your olds spamming macros in an overpowered class is hardly what I call good design.

Not that that really helps my case, but who can argue with a blast from the past?

DAOC had excellent PVP balancing due to the three-way realm setup. If one realm got too strong, the other two tended to team up against it. Combine that with the fact that as you increased your holdings in the RVR area, you had fewer and fewer npc guards, etc, to hold keeps with... made it hard to get ahead and stay ahead...

Class balancing lacked a bit... bonecasters vs... well.. anything, tbh, as an example... but overall DAOC had the best system I've seen yet.

-LFG is nice, but I've had varying success with the wait time. More importantly, all the changes they made to accomodate LFG is what I'm more concerned about.

1. By all accounts they have totally nerfed experts. I only had a chance to sample 2 T1s and part of a T2 before that happened, so that's kind of sad. If they had been easier from the get-go, I guess I wouldn't have complained, but I kind of liked the idea of learning the dungeons and overcoming the difficulty. It even makes running T1s to get the gear less important.

2. You get fewer plaques for running experts now, and plaque gear has gone up in price, including a massive hike on minor catalyst, although there are other methods for getting them. There's also no dps rogue standard plaque gear with +hit.

3. Supposedly experts are also totally bugged at the moment, where all of the bosses save the final drop lame blues.

-The 10-man raid is for people geared better than Greenscale. DUMB. I don't know what they were thinking here. This was an opportunity to give higher-level content to smaller guilds that were not ready for 20-mans yet.

As a note, Expert rifts are a really nice source for extra gear. You can do with 5 once you know the rifts, but I'd recommend 7 or 8 for smooth sailing. If you finish them, there will usually be an epic essense and an epic gear and they take a lot less time than getting a dungeon run going.

-Guild crafting quests are nice, but I expect I will never give up good mats for a small amount of guild XP.

-Making Mathos rep so much easier to get was great. There was no reason for it to be so hard. They should do the same for Icewatch.

-Crafting rifts are great.

-Wardrobe is fun, although as expected there are a lot of scantily clad mages and rogues running around now

-I'm glad I can make Cinerium now, but so can everyone else, meaning it's worthless on the AH (along with serveral other rare mats). Not a big fan of this change in the end.

I haven't played much lately. What are crafting rifts? Where do you buy plaque gear?

Crafting rifts are new. You can get one lure per week which will turn any tear into a crafting rift. They are easy fights and you loot crafting materials based on the lure type instead of weapons and armor and stuff. If you finish the bonus stages you can get minor catalysts and other similar rare things.

Plaque gear is bought from vendors in the main cities (kind of near Asha in Meridian, don't know about Sanctum). There are 3 dealers - "minor relics", "major relics" and one other (rare maybe?).