Sunday, June 29, 2008

"Do you feel safer with a gun in the house? When you bring a gun into your home, you dramatically increase the risk of someone you love being injured by that gun. Research has shown that with each 1,000 gunshot victims that come to our hospitals, less than two victims are actually using a gun for self-defense at the time.(5) The majority of gunshots are due to suicide, homicide (due to escalated arguments between loved ones), and accidental firings than to self defense. In fact, more guns are fired in the United States in the act of suicide than for any other reason.(6) To put simply: suicides, homicides (due to arguments), and accidental firings would be much less likely if the gun were not in the house in the first place."

~~Physicians For Social Responsibility-Los Angeles~~

I honestly think the pro gun folks in the ongoing gun debate in A-merry-ca watch too many movies. This moronic idea that if I have a gun in my home I will be able to protect my family from those evil intruders coming to get me, is a result of one "Death Wish" flick too many.

I mean honestly, how many of you on that side of the debate have ever had to shoot or shoot at an intruder coming into your home? Please tell me, and give me the particulars. And like my man Kat Williams says; "don't worry, I will wait"............yeah I didn't think so. Look, here in Killadelph we have home invasions all the time, and guess whose homes are getting invaded? Yep, you guessed it, other bad guys. Do you know why their homes are always getting invaded? Because they have guns,cash, and drugs in their homes, that's why. And you don't think those clowns doing the invading don't know that the person they are attacking owns a hammer? Do you think that's stopping them? If you do, I have a nice little antique bell with a slight crack in it to sell you.

Over at the very nice but misguided site, "Mirror On America, my man A.I. is basically calling me out on this gun debate by citing the case of poor Eve Carson. You remember her don't you folks? The cute blond coed who was brutally murdered by a bunch of animals recently in North Carolina. Yes that Eve. Oh, did I mention that she was a "star" student? I guess that made her life more valuable. Anyhoo, my man implies that if she had a gun she would be alive today, because she would have been able to go Charles Bronson or Jody Foster on her attackers. Not! The case file says that she was kidnapped from her home while studying. Now unless girlfriend used a handgun for a study aid I am not sure how having a gun in her apartment on that faithful day would have saved her.

But let me play along with this flawed logic a little: Let's just say for argument sake say that Eve did have a gun, and she did use it to fend off her attackers. Would that and other similar cases offset the hundreds of children who are killed in their homes every year because of accidental shootings? Or the crack pot who decides to take out his boss, his wife, or himself when he gets pissed off, because his gun is easier to get to than his fucking car keys? I don't think so.

But field what about the Second Amendment? What about it? Are you a fucking militia, or are you an individual? What fucking government do you think a 380 sitting in your dresser is going to protect you from? I mean honestly, how dumb is that shit? Citizens need their guns in case their government gets out of control. But field what about the folks who love to hunt? Fair point, (My father in law is one of them) and they can hunt Bambi until their hearts content as far as I am concerned. But do they need a M-4 Colt 6933 to do it? Do they really need a Bushmaster 450 or an AK 47 to hunt a fucking deer? Ask law enforcement officers how they feel about these Second Amendment wack jobs, and you will be surprised at their answers.

But let's keep having this debate. I welcome it, and I am glad I am on the right side. Those murdering leeches over at the NRA and the politicians that they buy off every year can kiss my black ass.

I have been to too many funerals, and seen too many lives destroyed to be apathetic about this subject.

So bring it on, I welcome it, and I hope your guns are loaded. Ah, that was meant to be a metaphor...

I have mixed feelings about gun ownership. I come from a family in which my maternal and paternal folks are gun owners, NRA members and they advocate ownership.

I grew up in a household with guns. My mother and father both are legal gun owners. They both taught me and my sibs how to live with a gun in our midst. They were never within our reach. My dad and mom always emphasized having a healthy respect for a fire arm.

My dad is a retired cop. But he started using a gun in his early teens to help feed his family. He has also has shotpeople and killed people in the line of duty. They were all armed and drew their weapons on him.

In the O-State we can legally carry and conceal weapons that are registered.

From the way it sounds here during New Years Eve, there is a lot of illegal gats on the streets. I live in a middle class neighborhood and it sounds like we are under siege. That type of shooting bothers me because it is done with no regards to where the bullets will land. That is not responsible ownership.

I have shot at one person my entire life. A fool who tried to force his way into my home. He was looking for my neighbor and he was quite angry. I was single and there was no way he was coming into my house. I drew the gun and fired. He did what I wanted~which was to get the hell off of my porch. Which is my parents standard rule about drawing a weapon. If you do so~pulling the trigger is the next step.

But on the other hand, I have also been to the funeral of babies from my Head Start classes who have been killed by guns. I have also had to help my sons work through their friends being murdered by gun fire.

When my boys were coming up, I did not have a gun. Their dad was terrified of them.

Now I live alone. And I have been thinking about re-arming myself. Even though its legal to carry a concealed weapon, I wouldn't. But in the crib is another matter. I am still debating the issue. So far, by God's grace, I haven't had any problems. But in today's climate of violence towards black women, who knows?

Field I usually agree with you 85% of the time, but you are dead wrong on the gun onership. As long as sorry a** niggas are armed, and krazy a** white folks are armed to the teeth, I will keep packin to protect myself and those I luv. Kudos

But I have to agree with AI. You are as wrong as two left shoes on this.

I hope you are never faced with a situation where someone barges into your house...and you have to defend your life or your family's life. But perhaps that is something that might finally wake you up... to see things from a victims point of view.

The problem is... if that's what it takes to wake you up, it might be too late for you.

Hathor thanks for those links, and those views seem reasonable. But sorry, no compromise for the pro NRA folks in Fieldville. Slippery slope, slippery slope....

msladydeborah, thanks for sharing. That's one person out af all the folks that disagree with me. And please note that hs eis debating whether to carry in her home or not.

"The effective defensive weapon one can keep in the house is an aluminum baseball bat."

Or a good alarm system. Or maybe even a good dog :)

"The really troubling thing is, now the NRA and their lawyers have a legal precedent to stand on and my guess is, the NRA will prevail.

Your thoughts, Field?"

Christopher, I would really have to read the Chicago law in its entirety, but given the makeup of the supremes, I am guessing the NRA is going to win in Chicago too.

"I hope you are never faced with a situation where someone barges into your house...and you have to defend your life or your family's life. But perhaps that is something that might finally wake you up... to see things from a victims point of view."

malcolm I dare say that that I have faced in life as it relates to guns is far more serious than 99% of the pro gun folks who are going to comment here, and you know what, it has just reinforced my commitment for stricter gun controls.

I'm grateful that I was raised responsibly around firearms. If it wasn't for my uncles on two occasions, I would have become a victim and a news story. I was taught professionally and recreationally how to defend myself with and without a weapon, but on two occasions, both home invasions, my hands would have done me no good.

Yes, some of the wrong people do have access to guns. Criminals and the ones who lack responsibility makes it hard on the rest of us.

We've all heard the right-wing arguments for citizen gun ownership, which often are contaminated by idol-worshipping patriotic fluff and references to God Given Rights. So, please allow me to introduce you to some sober arguments from the left.

1. Protection from fascism

In 2006, Bush's rubber stamp congress, with help from spineless Democrats, passed the 2006 Military Commissions Act. This law stripped all citizens of their rights to a speedy and fair trial, a principle known as Habeas Corpus. According to this law, the President or his secretary of Defense may arbitrarily name people "Enemy Combatants", who are denied constitutional protections.

So far, this law has not been used against American Citizens. Do you feel confident that Bush or his successors will always shrink from using this against citizens? What would you do if your friends or family, people that you know, were pulled out of their houses at night, to be held indefinitely, with no legal recourse? What makes you think that Bush or his successors would not use this if they thought they could get away with it?

This isn't a fantasy nightmare scenario anymore - the legal framework for fascism is now in place. So, I repeat the question, what would you do?

Citizens who are unarmed would be at the mercy of the police. Citizens who are armed could resist. (please note that this assumes that citizens have not been deprived of effective weaponry which could pierce body armor).

This was the original intent of the 2nd amendment. Bush has shown us that it is still important after all this time, and not the vestigial curiosity we once thought it was.

2. Constitutional credibility

Our constitution has come under multiple attacks since 2001, most notably the 4th amendment. In the national discussion which pits Left against Right, we must be able to convincingly argue that we are the political defenders of the constitution. We cannot pick and choose which parts of the constitution to defend, and still maintain credibility.

The right wing is not a homogeneous clump - there are people from all over the spectrum in there. There exist people who can be reasoned with, and a consistent defense of the Constitution can impress these people. The cognitive dissonance of strenuously campaigning to preserve the 4th and 1st amendments while ignoring the 2nd causes a huge rift, and gives license to others to indulge in intellectual hypocrisy.

3. The myth of Police competence

I'm not sure why people seem to be comfortable with police officers carrying weapons, but don't think they themselves are qualified. With a little bit of training and practice, any citizen can be every bit as qualified as a police officer to operate a firearm. Ask yourself: Do you think you are less competent than the average police officer? Do you have less respect for human life? What makes you think that the police will risk his own life to protect you and your family when the ish hits the fan, even if they were present, which they almost certainly would not be?

Please visit http://liberalgunforum.com for more down-to-earth discussion on this topic.

I happen to agree with Field's argument, I do not feel the need to own a gun because statistically something more likely to happen to me while I am outside of my home. And besides, I am the kind of person who can trip on a crack on the sidewalk and fall, so me owning a gun is not a good idea. I get can randomly shot while walking down the street and me carrying a gun is not going to help me.

We have a blood thirst in this country that I find offensive and unsettling. We somehow think that violence is an answer, but it is not a panacea to our problems. If we did not have guns, then we would probably shoot each other with paperclips. However, we do not look more profoundly within ourselves to even ask the question why are we so angry and violent in the first place.

There are too many guns floating around in the country, and I can't help to wonder that if some of the guns on the street are the result of someone breaking into someone's home and stealing it along with rest of the good stuff. The police already have a difficult job of fighting crime as if you could really fight crime, but dealing with criminals with more powerful guns than with the police possess.

Our problem is that we do not think of the consequences of the some of decisions with make. We tend to react quickly without any long-term outcomes of that reaction. We tend to react when things occurs because the thought doesn't occur to use prior to what happened.

I think it's more of a privilege to own a gun just as much it's a privilege to have a driver's license. You place regulations on things that may be a danger to the public at large. Sometimes the rights of majority at large does outweigh an individual's rights and owning guns would be one. The 2nd Amendment does place that restriction as the right of a well-regulated militia, and the last time I checked I am not in the militia.

Wouldn't it been better to build a better relationship with the police to combat the problems with crime. As the police department across the country to stand great improvement with building a relationship within the community? Couldn't we take it upon ourselves to become more involve in our communities in making them safer than having a mentality of me against the rest of the world?

I had a conversation with a guy who to me that I am trained to destroyed the black man. Of course, I do not agree with that and he spends too much time thinking about white people and not paying attention to what kind of man he wishes to be. However, he told me that he knows my chain of thinking, and I said that he has no idea as my chain of thought could change over time. He became frustrated and wanted to hit me because it is something I made him do. Once another individual not taking responsibility for his actions and blaming me because I disagreed with him. Now imagine if he had a gun, he would shot me because of our oral discord. I would not trust that individual with a gun because if a conversation causes him to react in that nature. I think we should really rethink our position about gun ownership.

Field; Your argument goes only half way (the easy half). Many people would LOVE to see guns gone from our society.

TELL US YOUR PLAN FOR REMOVING THEM.

Its easy to sit back and say "guns are bad, more guns are worse" A little harder to have a workable plan to take them away.

OK first step go to all law abiding people and take their guns (impossible, but leat for the sake of argument say it can be done). How you gonna take the gats from the stupid ass negroes that their own parents cant control. You think Mr. Drug dealer will give his up when johhny law comes knocking? You think that all these illegals walking across the border with white powder might just carry a few glocks to sell to the highest bidder (read; Mr Drug dealer)

We cant stop illegal drugs, illegal cigarrettes, illegal booze or illegal people, yet you live in a world where illegal guns will somehow stay out? SILLY.

How about this; lock up criminals who use guns. Lock them up for a good long time. Lock up people with illegal guns, lock them up for a good long time. OH Im sure I will hear the usual crap about locking up everybody in our society...but I aint heard any other solution coming from you yet.

In my home, Not yet. In my car, on the street, and at work -- Yes.An armed fellow in Sandy springs, GA hacked through the roof around the air conditioner ducts to commit a burglery while I was working at night.Once in Orlando a guy tried to get in the car window. Display was enough to drive him away -- yelling didn't work.Once in Corpus Cristi, TX -- same scenario. Both very intent and threatening.Once on the streets of Midtown Atlanta, not far from a homeless shelter that collects a small group of rock dealers around the corner. A group of these guys ganged up on me as I walked to O'Terrill's pub, but scattered when they saw the Bum-Bot guy -- who has a "controversial reputation" in the area.

At home, the fear of an alarm sounding probably discourages most intrusion, but it also serves as an early warning to prepare oneself before being confronted face to face.

The NRA can bite me, they are megalomaniacal nut jobs with a perverted agenda.The yahoos firing weapons into the air on the 4th should be impacted by their own spent ammo.Anyone who allows a child access shouldn't be allowed to own one and publicly displayed in the stocks.Those with true anger managment issues should not own weapons.Everyone who contemplates owning a weapon should be trained in the use, storage and impact of use and ownership.

Those seedy $45 "Saturday Night Special" manufacturers in Miami, etc. should be put out of business. Their products and the avenues at which they are sold are a large part of the problem. TV, Movies and Media are another. We live in a nation saturated by gratuitous violence -- education and social change is the cure, not banning guns.

This isn't a utopian world, and I don't like or worship guns. But they are simply a mechanical device. People so inclined will kill with anything available -- rocks, knives, bats, their bare hands. But until all guns are provably gone, not just banned, I'm packing heat -- sorry.

I would prefer a phaser set on stun, but unfortunately technology hasn't offered me that option yet.

Yet, GA passed the NRA penned House Bill 89; which allows those with a concealed weapons permit to carry their hardware on public transit, in public parks and in restaurants and bars.

YeeHaw!

I don't deny there are many who are responsible gun owners, and I believe I fit into that category as well. But this bill isn't about carry permits or banning guns, it is about allowing people to carry weapons into family environments and establishments that serve food and alcohol. As well, instantaneous vigilante justice isn't my thing. If the owner wants to keep a gun in his office, that's one thing - but a bar full of gun toting GA yahoos is quite another. And believe me, there are plenty of those to go around in this state. The rules WILL be broken, it is human nature, and this bill is political pandering at best, and an invitation for chaos at its worst.

Besides, you haven't seen the new internment camps and chamo "crowd control" vehicles loaded up with AK-47s and M-16 that are hidden in desolate areas around the south. Scary BushCo stuff like that...

[quote]This moronic idea that if I have a gun in my home I will be able to protect my family from those evil intruders coming to get me, is a result of one "Death Wish" flick too many.[/quote]

Field-Negro:

We can put a CHECK on your rhetoric with this one basic challenge to your ILLOGIC!

If these homeowners with guns at home are EXERCISING THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO OWN A GUN what BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS to concern yourself with their motivations?

IF ONLY you would switch your rhetoric from attempting to CONFISCATE THE GUNS of LAW ABIDING AMERICANS over to the question of "Why do STREET THUGS who are doing most of the KILLING that I track believe that they are SAFER as they procure a gun by illegal means and thus, by packing heat they are more inclined to turn a 'MINOR BEEF INTO A MURDER SCENE'?"

What is amazing to me is that I am reading a BLACK MAN seeking to confiscate guns from those who CHOOSE this historically tried and true means of doing so. In the balance of our history in this nation was as African-Americans used guns to protect our families from racists who wished to have their way with us. It was WHITE RACISTS who sought to implement gun control to make sure that Blacks had no means of defending themselves so that they can raid up with impunity.

Fast forward to 2008 and, sadly, there are Black folks in the cities who are using guns that they have obtained ILLEGALLY to kill, rob and terrorize the Black community and others.

Field-Negro - if you don't like guns DON'T BUY ONE. In fact why don't you show your pride in your askew sentiments? Go post a sign outside of your house that says "I am against gun ownership and thus this house is GUN FREE!". This is the effect that the draconian DC gun control law that the Supreme Court rightfully shot down had on DC.

@hennasplace:"We have a blood thirst in this country that I find offensive and unsettling. We somehow think that violence is an answer, but it is not a panacea to our problems. If we did not have guns, then we would probably shoot each other with paperclips. However, we do not look more profoundly within ourselves to even ask the question why are we so angry and violent in the first place."

I completely agree... guns or no guns is not the issue... it is the culture of violence that I think is perpetuated by fear mongering, glorification of violence and absolutely NO education focusing on what creates a culture of peace. Peace not just being an absence of violence, but also the conditions and policies that address social issues that contribute to violence.

As I said in an earlier post, we need to start asking what would create a culture of peace in our communities, our policies, and in our world.

How did this guy Jaded Liberal go from this:"I'm a liberal, and I am pro-Gun."

over to THIS?

This law stripped all citizens of their rights to a speedy and fair trial, a principle known as Habeas Corpus.

Do you feel confident that Bush or his successors will always shrink from using this against citizens? What would you do if your friends or family, people that you know, were pulled out of their houses at night, to be held indefinitely, with no legal recourse?

There will likely be a Democraticly controlled House and Senate next year. There might be a Democratic President. JADED LIBERAL - do you plan to actually convert your PRIDE into something tangible and have these DEMOCRATS to cancel these initiatives that keep you awake at night, oiling your gun as you wait for some federal agents to kick in your door?

Our constitution has come under multiple attacks since 2001, most notably the 4th amendment.TRINIDAD WASHINGTON, DCTRINIDAD WASHINGTON, DCTRINIDAD WASHINGTON, DCTRINIDAD WASHINGTON, DCThe Democraticly controlled city with Mayor Fenty at the helm is trampling the 4th Admendment RIGHT NOW!!! Where is the ACLU and NAACP?And you say WHAT Jaded Liberal???

This is my opinion about the whole gun issue. The idea of citizens getting guns for self protection is absurd. I live in New York City and I can't tell you how many times kids were critically injured or killed because guns were in the house. Guns and domestic violence, needless to say, are a deadly mix. Argument between people over any mess and a gun lying around --not good.

Now you might say oh but what if you are in a dangerous neighborhood you have to protect yourself. Well this is what I have to say. I work for the New York City Department of Education as an attendance teacher (truant officer) I work in the two most dangerous neighborhoods in Brooklyn where people "carry artillary", Bloods and Crips (many of my students are gang members or have immediate family who are members), drugs etc. I have to go my students homes and investigate why these students are not attending school. I mostly go into gloomy apartments buildings and housing projects. I do this daily by myself and I am a female.

When people found out what I actually do, the first thing they ask me if I carry a weapon. I tell them "Because of the work I do I can probably get a license to carry a weapon. But what the hell I am I going to do with it. Those who have weapons can use it better than I can. If I am lucky they'll take my gun and pistol whip my ass, but more than likely they will bust some caps in my behind and congrat themselves for finding a free gun. I am much safer if I don't bring any form of aggression when I go out to do my investigation." That is how I protect myself at work.

Pro-gun folks do not care about law enforcement, the medical community, neighborhoods, families, children, and all others who are adversely affected by guns in our communities. They are self serving

[quote]I do not feel the need to own a gun because statistically something more likely to happen to me while I am outside of my home.[/quote]

Your personal choice. DON'T BUY ONE.

[quote] However, we do not look more profoundly within ourselves to even ask the question why are we so angry and violent in the first place.[/quote]

If ONLY you could talk to the THUGS and give them a free coupon to a day spa where they could have a message and get in touch with their inner selves while having a pedicure. Do you REALLY think that someone who would rob you as he puts a gun in your face and GETS OFF on the power and authority over you is planning to GET IN TOUCH WITH HIS INNER SELF?

[quote]Our problem is that we do not think of the consequences of the some of decisions with make.[/quote]

You mean like raising our sons so they DON'T become THUGS and seek to hold people up on the street? This is the most sensible thing that you said. (Though I know that THIS is not what you are talking about)

[quote] We tend to react quickly without any long-term outcomes of that reaction. We tend to react when things occurs because the thought doesn't occur to use prior to what happened.[/quote]

Like: Am I really prepared to raise this child? Do I really know this person who I am about to lay down with and practice 'pro-creation' with? Am I ready to deal with all of the possible outcomes of this act?

[quote]I think it's more of a privilege to own a gun just as much it's a privilege to have a driver's license.[/quote]

THIS IS YOUR VIEW.THIS IS NOT THE VIEW OF THE SUPREME COURT.Gun ownership is an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT and just like all RIGHTS they must not infringe on another's rights. (Can't use free speech to yell fire in a crowded theater).

[quote] You place regulations on things that may be a danger to the public at large.[/quote]I now have all of my finger prints on file with the government as a pretext to obtaining my gun owners permit. I told them where I live. I did a background check. THIS IS REGULATION ENOUGH. I now want to express my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!!! You have a right to not take up the offer but not a right to prevent me from expressing mine.

[quote] Sometimes the rights of majority at large does outweigh an individual's rights and owning guns would be one.[/quote]100% WRONGThis is why the government of DC is left scratching their heads. This is what they THOUGHT and they were overruled.

[quote] The 2nd Amendment does place that restriction as the right of a well-regulated militia, and the last time I checked I am not in the militia.[/quote]

Hennasplace:

Could you tell me the year in which we lost our 2nd amendment rights? I looked back at the history of when we professionalized our militia and the National Guard and Reserves were formed. I saw NO ONE at the time making the statement "OK now we don't need individual gun ownership". Do you have access to some information that I don't?

[quote]Wouldn't it been better to build a better relationship with the police to combat the problems with crime.[/quote]

IT WOULD BE BETTER TO BUILD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE YOUNG PEOPLE BEFORE THEY BECOME CRIMINALS.

All of this mushy feely, hugs and kisses stuff in which you have shown to ONLY be able to manage your GOVERNMENT while failing to manage your people is the source of all of this consternation.

Instead of seeking to BOIL THE OCEAN there needs to be far more focus AT HOME regarding the ideas that are indoctrinated into these young people that have them going down a particular path.

Anon 11:05 has the point. It reminded me of a fable; A cat was decimating the mouse population in a farm house. The mice had a meeting about what to do. Some young mice got up front with a "brilliant" idea". "We will put a bell around the cats neck so we can hear it when it is close and we can all run to safety" The crowd loved it and started to whoop. An old mouse in the back raised his hand and asked the question "Who will put the bell on the cat"? He was met with silence.

Guns are like urine in a bathtub. If any of you have a "brilliant" idea on how to rid them in our society, we are all waiting to hear it.

"In fact, more guns are fired in the United States in the act of suicide than for any other reason"

Wow, that stat really got me. I didn't know that fact. I could never keep a gun in my home because I fear going through a rough time and thinking the gun might be a solution. And apparently, for a lot of people, it is.

Here in Cleveland, a 75 y.o. man was shot to death in a drive-by while smoking a cigarette in his wheelchair on his own front sidewalk. Having a gun in his home would not have helped.

Gunlovers don't give a shit about these situations. All they really need guns for is hunting. And arming themselves come the revolution.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That is the second amendment, and it's clear that is more of a collective right an individual right. In addition, the Supreme in the opinion also stated that states will still need to have regulations in place in relation to gun ownership, gun ownership is not an absolute right. The rule on the banning not regulating guns.

Now I don't where you got the day spa thing, but it is your way of taking my statement and making seem as if I am soft on crime which I am not. However, it's a good try and commend for that. However, we do have problem with individuals controlling their anger. There are crimes committed with guns when they are in the heat of the moment and they do not necessarily have prior criminal records or committed a crime.

Now when I talked about building a relationship between the community and the police that does include crime prevention.

What will a gun do for me when there are people out there who have AK47. That little hand gun is not going to help me. We are talking about gun ownership in the home, it doesn't mention anything about the right to carry a gun on your person when outside of the home.

We have false security in believing that a gun is going to solve our problems. Period. Now Constructive if you think it's going to work, then you have every right to believe so because it's your opinion.

Yes you can do a job on my comments and try to construct them in way that makes you feel more superior than me and tell me that I am wrong. You are entitled to your opinion, but I do speak from experience. I live in an urban area and me owning a handgun is not going to solve the crime problems that exist. The gun is not going to save me if I get randomly shot walking from the bus stop to my apartment and that is me being realistic.

I was not talking about criminal but ordinary citizens who sometimes are not able to control their tempers and will shoot in the heat of an argument. You never know ticking time bomb. Constructive, I think you of those ticking time bombs according to the statements you make on this blog. You are not open to different or new ideas because you think they your ideas will still work. You are like that person who keeps hitting their head into same brick wall believing that eventually you will break through, but it doesn't work and do you not have the inclination to try different way to break through the way. I think it's just laziness on your part, but it's my opinion and it's just your fear speaking to us.

Come on now Henna. Nobody is playing the superior card just because they disagree with your position and name calling reflects more on you than the target of your disrespect. We all can create scenarios where a gun wont help you and where a gun will help you. Also, if you really want to commit suicide then razor blades can do the job. Absence of a gun doesnt mean a truly depressed person cant end it. Lets be real.

""THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"" pretty plain english there

Lets have some common sense here. Theres room for compromise. Rifles for hunting are OK. Handguns are OK for qualified people who register them and pass gun safety courses. Automatic weapons, silencers, bazookas, streetsweepers, 50 cals, and such NOT OK. Non-metallic handguns NOT OK. Most gun "nuts" will agree with that.

But for the REAL issue; what to do with the assholes who use guns? What about the 17-18 yr old who carries an illegal gun? What about hotheads who Henna described? I heard about a law that the NRA proposed that many ststes rejected. It places a 10 yr min/mand sentence on anybody using a gun in a crime, THEN after that he serves the time for the crime itself i.e armed robbery = 10 yrs + 3-7 for the robbery. If the gun goes off 20yrs + attempted murder/robbery/assault etc... If you seriously want to stop gun crime you must be punitive to those who will take that step to gun violence. We can flap our gums all day about respect for fellow humans, teaching in the home, preaching love, fathers in the home and on and on. The people who terrorize our communities are not effected by that. They will be effected with long jail terms. Our communities will be safer with these jackals in cages where they belong.

Hey Un-Con Feed: In answer to your question as to where the ACLU and NAACP are in DC's Trinidad neighborhood... here is the answer. Were you there? Did you join them in monitoring the check points? Why don't you do a little homework before you go accusing folks (NAACP and ACLU) of doing nothing.... Update, the ACLU has filed a legal challenge....

Ivan- if you havent noticed it aint the white man murdering us, it is US. The gun control lobby doesnt want to take guns from black men, they want to take guns away from EVERYBODY, including stormfront. This idiotic race war you talk about exists only in your mind. Blacks are killing blacks. Here in SoCal Hispanics are killing us too. If you are too dense to see that, I feel for ya. You talk about gun control arising to keep guns from black men. Seems to me the way we kill each other on an epidemic scale, it might not be a bad idea. Watcha think? -Moses-

Constructive Feedback...I agree totally. I could not find the words to say it but you managed to write what I feel. I mere fact that many black people find this ruling crazy because they think it doesn't help is puzzling. If you don;t want to have a gun in your home, don't. However, the hood goons do and they will use it. White people will use it. Law abiding BLACK citizens should have this option as well.

Constructive does make a point acting superior. I do not have a problem with him disagreeing me, but I do have a problem with him inferring that I am somehow a bleeding heart. I the getting in touch with the criminals' feelings by going to the spa gives a hint.

In addition: the entitled 2nd amendment reads:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".

The interpretation is the right is collective not necessarily individually. As I said earlier the supreme court gave its decision based on the ban. We has citizens do not absolute right to own a gun. The State can still have regulations as to type of arm a person should have that is reasonable. Meaning a person with a mental illness should not own a gun. We as a society still need to place some restrictions as to who should own a gun.

There is a suit in San Francisco that places a ban on guns in a public housing. Any person that owns a gun and lives in public housing will be evicted. NRA has filed suit on behalf of a gay man living in public housing who has a gun in fear of an attack because of his sexual orientation. That should be an interesting case. What about owning a gun and living in public housing?

I don't want to ever be in the vicinity of a "gun owner" -criminal or not. It doesn't take much for a gun owner to suddenly SNAP and decide they want to shoot up a school or their job because of a grudge (i.e: Virginia Tech or the # of violent crimes in the work place).

Was the man who shot the Amish girls a criminal prior to committing this act...NO. But he became a gun owner and used that entitlement to murder children. Had there been a gun ban in place, it would have been alot harder for him to commit a crime because a least there would have been obstacles in place.

We also need to address the the failed War on Drugs which also fuels gun violence and turf wars especally among urban youth. Another big issue in America is this culture of violence which was addressed in Bowling for Columbine by Micheal Moore. We have this John Wayne mentality where we think if we have a gun, criminals will bow down before you and run away but it's rarely like that. Not to mention having a gun in the home dramatically increases gun accidents and if there are children in the home, oh lord.

What I think, though, is that if there weren't a Drug War, there'd be a lot less reason for "us to kill each other." I think if "drugs" were legalized and their sales stringently regulated (as alcohol is today), the fellas on the street would:

a) have a lot less money to spend on gats an' bullets

b) have a lot less reason to use said gats an' bullets on each other, leading to

I don't want to ever be in the vicinity of a "gun owner" -criminal or not. It doesn't take much for a gun owner to suddenly SNAP and decide they want to shoot up a school or their job because of a grudge (i.e: Virginia Tech or the # of violent crimes in the work place).

Madame, you make the same mistake racists make when they assume that because SOME young black men are gangsters and criminals that ALL young black men are gangsters and criminals.

I am a "black man with a gun." In my own case, my gats stay locked up almost all the time (home defense? Puh-lease. Get a damn dog.) except when I take them out to the range for practice.

Finally-- there are literally millions of firearms all around this country. Their existence is a simple fact of life; and you cannot magically "wish them away to the cornfield."

With that simple, unavoidable fact of life, would you try to take them away from the responsible gun owners (knowing that ban or no ban, the criminals will get theirs? That, ban or no ban, the Stormfronters will always have theirs)?

Having a gun in the home for self defense operates on Murphy's Law, if you have the gun you'll never need it but if you don't have it you'll wish to hell you did when some creep craws through your window to steal a TV.

The reason those bad guys are getting their homes invaded is because they make enemies in their exploits. But you'd making a damn fool of yourself to say those are the ONLY home invasions that happen; that there aren't people who are targeted because of their wealth, their gender, their race, the people living or not living with them, etc.

Yes the Second Amendment was originally written to keep the government in check by virtue of an armed citizenry, but the US Military is such a hulking ass kicking machine at this point a handful of guys with .40 pistols would be cut down in a heartbeat. I believe it still exists to allow law abiding citizens to own guns, for whatever legal purposes they use them.

It's real easy to sneak past a bell latched onto a door.

Even if having an armed home is a false sense of security, it's still a sense of security in this fucked up world.

Henna said:""The interpretation is the right is collective not necessarily individually.""

No. That is YOUR interpetation. It is not mine and it is not 5 out of 9 supreme court justices.

Im not sure Ivan is right about the drug war being the cause of gun violence, remove it and remove the killing. FAR too simplistic. Po stupid negroes will still want things they cant afford and be compelled to take them. Po' stupid negroes will still not be able to control their emotions with or without guns. Po' stupid crackheads will still want more rock and do whatever to get it.

The problem us us Im afraid. Whites, hispanics, asians, Indians all have the same access to firearms and they dont kill anywhere the rate we do. They kill to be sure. But they aint doin any killin in hoods in Philly, Bed/Sty, Overtown, Memphis, Gary, Hotlanta, Richmond, DC, Orleans, Houston....

Hardly any murders in Boise, Bozeman, Santa Fe, Helena, Provo, Pierre, Flagstaff, and many if not most people own guns there. Any ideas why? Im not sure if the fact they have no black hoods there contributes to it. Ill let you decide that. -Moses-

Your blog plus the pro/con arguments and comment/responses just saved me from spending $800 because I have been nursing an itch to purchase a handgun. Sometimes I succumb to that American scourge - fear, and exhaust creative means for the defense of my person and property. I do believe that the first line of defense is mental - outsmarting/thinking the jackals and predators among us.I now live in rural Georgia after growing up in Pittsburgh, PA and living all of my adult life in crime-ridden Oakland, CA. Strangely, I no longer fear the KKK, Oakland PD, or our "sick white patriots" who continue to pray for race war. Aggressive stupidity, terminal ignorance, and mental disorders defy racial and economic categorization. There are some real nuts out there - and - they are armed; they also drive another weapon - automobiles.I think it was Chris Rock who suggested that perhaps our own robust American arms industry raise the unit price of bullets. I don't think we really want to build the number of prisons, nor legislate indefinite incarceration for the jackals and predators who commit any crime with a gun. Neither am I going to surrender my Mossberg 12ga./buckshot ammo or my S&W .38/plus_P ammo. In addition to proper training and military service, I continue to return to constant vigilance and THINKING!!to fight off that all-American disease - fear. I respect your arguments/points of view, Field; and continue to appreciate your blog. Thanks,

Georgia Flash, you said;""I don't think we really want to build the number of prisons, nor legislate indefinite incarceration for the jackals and predators who commit any crime with a gun.""

WHY NOT?

Should we just run from appointment to appointment to home like it is Belgrade in '85? Why should we live our lives in fear of these jackals? Why should we have to worry when our kids walk to school? Why should we have to bob and weave our way through life to avoid animals who would just as soon shoot at us as look at us. We should just adjust our lives so we wont anger the militant n***er on the corner? I dont feel that way. If person A is the type of person who will use a gun to get what he wants then person A is exactly why prisons are built. The $30k per year it costs to house this animal is a fraction of the amount he would cost if he was allowed to live among us. The property damage he will no doubt cause, the kids he will no doubt father and abandon, the heartache and fear he will cause through his disregard for human life. The poison he will peddle to his brothers and sisters.

No No. Cage him. Cage him for a long long time. Im sick of this attitude that no more brothers should be in prison. WAKE UP. There are some animals among us that will feed on us. They are NOT our "brothers" and they are undeserving of our compassion. TIME TO THIN THE HERD -Moses-

"Hey Un-Con Feed: In answer to your question as to where the ACLU and NAACP are in DC's Trinidad neighborhood... here is the answer. Were you there? Did you join them in monitoring the check points? Why don't you do a little homework before you go accusing folks (NAACP and ACLU) of doing nothing.... Update, the ACLU has filed a legal challenge....

Thank you jody. Still crickets from the unconstructive one. But that's him. He talks a good game, but then the facts get in the way of his farcical arguments every time.

"There are too many guns floating around in the country, and I can't help to wonder that if some of the guns on the street are the result of someone breaking into someone's home and stealing it along with rest of the good stuff"

Good pint hennasplace, and it's another one of the issues that the pro gun folksl always seem to forget. A lot of these guns that these thugs are running around with were stolen from the homes of law abiding gun owners. Many of the guns that were used in crimes here were traced back to legitimate gun owners. Which brings me to another point:did you know that the NRA does not want laws in place that force people to report when their guns are stolen? Slippery slope, slippery slope...

"Guns are like urine in a bathtub. If any of you have a "brilliant" idea on how to rid them in our society, we are all waiting to hear it."

Not a problem Moses. Here is mysolution: Empty the bathtub with the urine in the water, and fill it with clean water.

Oh and to make sure that no one pisses in the bath water again,no one will be allowed in the bathtub naked.

The DC ban was so extreme that it gave the Supreme Court an opening to express its view that there is an individual right to gun ownership.

In future cases the Supreme Court is going to be hard pressed to distinguish constitutionally exactly why machine guns can not be kept.

However the idea that the state can ban handguns was never going to fly with this Supreme Court.

DC should have never let the case get this far.

That being said I do think that citizens have the right to defend themselves. Whether or not it makes sense for a given individual to keep a gun in their home is something for them to decide. But I think the expressed panic of more people dying over this is overblown.

I live in Michigan where for the past six years there's been a "shall issue" CCW law. Basically if you aren't a felon or insane, you can get a CCW permit. The anti-gun lobby predicted blood in the streets, shootouts, more kids killed. However it didn't happen. The overall rate of violent crime and firearms deaths declined.

So, a law abiding person having a gun is not the problem. The problem is the criminal. And although it's EXTREMELY rare that someone will have the need to defend themselves or loved ones with the threat of deadly force, the state should not be taking that ability away.

Hey Field,Come from a family of gun owners all my life. Cannot give up the steel but do understand your points. Oh by the way Eve Carson left her door unlocked which for me is a no no. What the fuck is up with people thinking that shit is ok here in America.Check the article:Warrants: Men tookCarson from her houseJESSE JAMES DECONTO(Raleigh) News & ObserverEve CarsonEve Carson

HILLSBOROUGH --A confidential witness told investigators that Demario Atwater admitted that he and Laurence Lovette Jr. entered Eve Carson's home in Chapel Hill through an open door on March 5, according to search warrants made public today.

The witness said that Atwater and Lovette forced Carson, the student body president at UNC-Chapel Hill, into the backseat of her Toyota Highlander and drove her an ATM machine.

Over two days, Atwater and Lovette took $1,400 from Carson's bank account, the witness said. The witness also said Lovette shot her multiple times, and Atwater subsequently shot her with a different weapon.

The search warrant also said that Atwater admitted being in Carson's Highlander in Chapel Hill on March 5 and identified himself as the person whose image was captured in a security photo taken at a BP convenience store at 1002 N. Alston Ave. in Durham two days after the murder. Carson's ATM was used at the store.

Atwater also identified Lovette as the person in another surveillance photo taken at an ATM at the Bank of America in Chapel Hill, the warrants state.

Police seized more than a dozen pairs of shoes from Lovette's home at 1231 Shepherd St. in Durham. They took eight pairs of shoes from Atwater's residence at 2507 S. Roxboro St., Apt. 11, in Durham. They also seized assorted vehicles keys, two shotgun shells, a Motorola cell phone, two cameras, one house key, assorted notes, clothing and drug paraphernalia.

Police collected samples of hair, saliva and blood from both Lovette and Atwater for DNA evidence.

Police also sought cell phones and computers or digital storage devices, cash, cameras. The documents indicated that police were looking for gang-related material, including clothing, bandanas or documents.

Superior Court Judge Allen Baddour this morning ordered the release of six search warrants associated with the Carson murder case.

Orange County District Attorney Jim Woodall assured Baddour that the police investigation had progressed to the point where releasing the documents would not compromise its integrity or the safety of confidential informants.

""Not a problem Moses. Here is mysolution: Empty the bathtub with the urine in the water, and fill it with clean water.

Oh and to make sure that no one pisses in the bath water again,no one will be allowed in the bathtub naked""

What the fuck does that mean? I think it means you have no fucking idea. You rail about guns yet you have no answer to the question of how to get rid of them. Youve done nothing to further your argument and then clown on the critical question of "HOW"? Very disappointing.

Do you think a gun ban will get rid of the guns in bad peoples hands? How was the murder rate in DC when the ban was in effect? So much for that.

Not trying to be a prick (sometimes it just works out that way) but Id really like to hear the specific plan you have to rid guns from our society. Who will gather them up. What will be in place to ensure they stay gone. What to do about those who still get them. Its a serious question and Id appreciate a serious answer. Remember it was you who said "bring it on". Here it is.

"Not trying to be a prick (sometimes it just works out that way) but Id really like to hear the specific plan you have to rid guns from our society. Who will gather them up. What will be in place to ensure they stay gone. What to do about those who still get them. Its a serious question and Id appreciate a serious answer.

Remember it was you who said "bring it on". Here it is.

What say you?"

"Here is my solution: Empty the bathtub with the urine in the water, and fill it with clean water.

Oh and to make sure that no one pisses in the bath water again,no one will be allowed in the bathtub naked."

I have to tell that I am a poor candidate for owning a gun because I am not a good deal of the time particularly during the day which an ideal time for someone to break into my home and steal the gun that I could have. So common sense has to dictate. I am not going to own a gun for the reason that more likely than not someone will break into my apartment during the day when I am not at home. In addition, criminals may that is better break into the home during the day than at night as the penalty is much higher if you break into a person's home at night than in the daytime. Some states do have that statute on their books and I know state of South Carolina does have such a statute.

I should own a gun in a neighborhood with a good chance of being stolen from my home to be use in a crime. Of course, I am doing to the right thing by reporting that the gun was stolen, but does not do my conscience any good knowing that the gun could be used in a crime that harm or kill someone. That is a great weight of responsibility because I do take others in consideration when making a decision.

I am with the dissenting opinion of the court and it's ironic that the liberal judges in the dissenting opinion followed the construction of the 2nd amendment, and the conservative justices deconstructed the amendment with loose interpretation. I also question why in the concurring opinion that trigger lock requirement is unconstitutional and fire-safety laws are reasonable.

Most of the reports that I see of children getting guns and harming themselves tend to occur in homes of irresponsible gun owners who didn't have trigger locks.... and the guns tend to belong to criminals/felons who should not have had the gun in the first place...but they decided to keep it illegally. It's usually men who are on probation or who have priors...and they hide their guns in the homes/apartments of their girlfriends (where kids are present)...so police and probation authorities won't find them.

In other words... most of these incidents occur among the criminal element... that part of the population that we have been talking about who will have guns no matter what... a part of society who cannot be expected to be responsible with firearms and have no right to posses them.

We have had several of theseincidents occur in the St. Louis area over the past few years (kids getting hurt in the home). I can't recall any that took place in the homes of responsible, legit gun owners. All of the incidents involved felons in possession of a gun (against the law), houses that were involved in illegal activity...drug houses, meth labs, etc..., involve guns that are not registered or have been stolen or used in a previous crime, guns with serial numbers removed, or have involved other folks who should not have had weapons and who left them out in the open without the safety locks.Very few of the incidents you describe actually take place in the homes of responsible gun owners.

The problem with the anti-gun crowd is that they are unable or unwilling to recognize the difference... they blend these two worlds together (legit responsible gun owners with the criminal element). It's an unfair and unworkable comparison. These are two completely different worlds.

I support gun control that would keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Although the bad guys will still find a way to get their guns (via the street).

I'm feeling your post. I DO believe that states and cities should have the right to regulate gun ownership. However, I don't think in doing so they should be able to overide our constitutional rights.

Blaming guns for gun violence is as rediculous as my fat ass sueing the companies that make forks for me being fat. The problem aren't guns, its the gun owners. Contrary to popular beief, gun control has not led to a reduction in gun crimes.

But as with everything gov't regulated, there will always be a black market. And that my friend is the problem. Thats where energy needs to be focused. Like you said, its the drug dealers and criminals we have to worry about.

Thanks for the link by the way.... it's all in fun, although this is a serious subject.

But let me ask you this:

One of your main assertions seems to be that the bloodshed in Philly seems to be caused by legit, responsible gun owners (those with no criminal past, who have gone through safety training, who have the proper registration, who's guns were legally obtained, and who primarily keep their guns at home with the proper precautions)... or those who have the legit permit to carry (if they can in Killadelphia).

You seem to be suggesting that these law abiding citizens are the ones who are responsible for all of the murders in your city (and elsewhere).

1. What evidence (actual data) do you have to support this assertion?

You also seem to suggest that anyone who is pro-gun means that they want guns for everyone. That is not the position of most reasonable people. I can't speak for the NRA... I'm not arguing for their position. But most people are in favor of good, sound gun control that will keep guns out of the wrong hands. I am even in favor of closing the gun show loophole.

2. If you could have your dream world where you could ban law abiding citizens from having guns, what would you do about all of the criminals who would still have their guns? What would you propose to get all guns off the street? Buy back programs???? That has been tried a million times... that doesn't work. That's just a way for criminals to dump off their cheap guns (that they don't use anymore) in order to get free s---...stuff from the government.

3. What would be your advice for homeowners to protect their homes and families from home invaders, rapists, robbers, murderers, stalkers, etc?

In your case, you seem to be an advocate for leaving innocent citizens vulnerable. Yet you have a reputation for being soft on the home invading thugs.

4. How would you defend your own home? Do you think your muscles and your Kimbo Martial Arts will stop a home invasion? Do you think your dog or baseball bat will stop them?

Please...

I want you to stop dancing around these hard questions and let us see your proposal and what your actual position is.

"I want you to stop dancing around these hard questions and let us see your proposal and what your actual position is."

I gave my position in my latest post. But Honestly, where do you think many of these drug dealers and thugs steal their guns from? I will tell you; legit gun owners that's where. Who do you think is selling guns to these thugs on the street? I will tell you who: straw purchasers, that's who. You know, the people who your wonderful NRA allows to purshase guns to their hearts content without any restrictions whatsover.

"How would you defend your own home? Do you think your muscles and your Kimbo Martial Arts will stop a home invasion? Do you think your dog or baseball bat will stop them?"

No, I will let Mrs. Field use her "Martial Arts", I have something much better ;)

"If you could have your dream world where you could ban law abiding citizens from having guns, what would you do about all of the criminals who would still have their guns?"

In my "dream world" the criminals wouldn't have guns either, because there would be no NRA or tit sucking politicians to worship at their feet.

We agree about one thing; it is a serious subject, and it takes political will to tackle it. Sadly, that is something that is lacking at this point in our history.

Well, I'm a Blackman in inner city of Atlanta. Late one night a crackhead intruder was banging on my door at 4:00am. Requesting money, I show-up to the door with two snarling German Shepards and a Smith & Wesson shot gun, and he got the point and spread the word around. I haven't had any problems in fives years.And I can assure you it wasn't the German Shepards that got message across!

Eve Carson's recently released autopsy results verify the excellent marksmanship of her slave-avenging ghetto triggermen. A disfiguring shotgun blast to her pretty face, followed by 4 metal-jacketed slugs pumped into her curvy young body as she lay writhing on the pavement. Our shooters have mad skillz indeed!

Please don't get off topic by knocking on Eve Carson. She was special because she was president of the UNC CH student body. That makes her a representative of the university and the students - a very visible figure in the community. So she's getting the extra attention NOT because she's a pretty white girl, NOT because she's a good student. Don't hold those things against her. Her death got more attention because of the position she had attained in her community. Rightly so.

I'm from Chapel Hill too - so I'd like to think that an ugly man from Mars who was the student body president would also have had a candlelight vigil in honor of his death, if he'd been murdered in such a way.

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