paizo.com Recent Comments on Bard Class Previewpaizo.com Recent Comments on Bard Class Preview2019-05-08T18:16:45Z2019-05-08T18:16:45ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewSaint Bernard (alias of DougErvin)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6922018-08-02T11:41:30Z2018-08-01T19:49:15Z<p>If I remember correctly, one of the developers described a bard spell where the bard trapped a character in a box created by a mime building a box.</p>If I remember correctly, one of the developers described a bard spell where the bard trapped a character in a box created by a mime building a box.Saint Bernard (alias of DougErvin)2018-08-01T19:49:15ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewFashion Police (alias of Xenocrat)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6912018-08-01T21:01:25Z2018-08-01T19:46:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Makarion wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Berselius wrote:</div><blockquote> Hoping we get options for a dancer-type bard who works without an instrument. </blockquote>I'm still hoping for a mime. The idea that performers must make noise (and cannot use non-vocalized spells) is pretty silly. </blockquote><p>Even the fundamental laws of the multiverse hate mimes.Makarion wrote:Berselius wrote: Hoping we get options for a dancer-type bard who works without an instrument.
I'm still hoping for a mime. The idea that performers must make noise (and cannot use non-vocalized spells) is pretty silly. Even the fundamental laws of the multiverse hate mimes.Fashion Police (alias of Xenocrat)2018-08-01T19:46:27ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewMakarionhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6902018-08-02T11:41:36Z2018-08-01T19:42:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Berselius wrote:</div><blockquote> Hoping we get options for a dancer-type bard who works without an instrument. </blockquote><p>I'm still hoping for a mime. The idea that performers must make noise (and cannot use non-vocalized spells) is pretty silly.Berselius wrote:Hoping we get options for a dancer-type bard who works without an instrument.
I'm still hoping for a mime. The idea that performers must make noise (and cannot use non-vocalized spells) is pretty silly.Makarion2018-08-01T19:42:19ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewSaint Bernard (alias of DougErvin)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6892018-08-01T18:36:34Z2018-08-01T18:36:34Z<p>Only another day and we get the PDFs. The bard is one of my favorite classes and I am excited to get to play test one. My first character creation will be a half-elf gladiator bard I think polymath muse. Until I get to see the full text I can't be sure.</p>Only another day and we get the PDFs. The bard is one of my favorite classes and I am excited to get to play test one. My first character creation will be a half-elf gladiator bard I think polymath muse. Until I get to see the full text I can't be sure.Saint Bernard (alias of DougErvin)2018-08-01T18:36:34ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewTerevalis Unctio of House Mysti (alias of JASON RODARTE)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6882018-07-23T23:52:14Z2018-07-23T23:52:14Z<p>This looks interesting.</p>This looks interesting.Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti (alias of JASON RODARTE)2018-07-23T23:52:14ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewEllethhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6872018-08-02T11:37:06Z2018-07-23T21:45:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">AnimatedPaper wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Yeah that's one of the stylistic differences between the editions. Because proficiency creeps up so slowly in 5E, monsters are a threat for a loooong time, and conversely, you are a threat to monsters that would eat you unsalted in PF.</p>
<p>For the ease of adapting PF1 material to PF2 alone, I'm pretty glad PF didnt follow the same route, but I also prefer that style. </blockquote><p>I think I'm going to like how PF2 does it more. In 5e while I didn't expect it, the world's power level ended up higher than the monster manual made me expect. By this point the system is almost broken over my knee and if my PCs survive they will basically be demigods, so I'm happy that PF2 is going to possibly be nastier there.AnimatedPaper wrote:Yeah that's one of the stylistic differences between the editions. Because proficiency creeps up so slowly in 5E, monsters are a threat for a loooong time, and conversely, you are a threat to monsters that would eat you unsalted in PF.
For the ease of adapting PF1 material to PF2 alone, I'm pretty glad PF didnt follow the same route, but I also prefer that style.
I think I'm going to like how PF2 does it more. In 5e while I didn't expect it, the world's power level ended...Elleth2018-07-23T21:45:11ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewAnimatedPaperhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6862018-07-23T21:24:52Z2018-07-23T21:24:52Z<p>Yeah that's one of the stylistic differences between the editions. Because proficiency creeps up so slowly in 5E, monsters are a threat for a loooong time, and conversely, you are a threat to monsters that would eat you unsalted in PF.</p>
<p>For the ease of adapting PF1 material to PF2 alone, I'm pretty glad PF didnt follow the same route, but I also prefer that style.</p>Yeah that's one of the stylistic differences between the editions. Because proficiency creeps up so slowly in 5E, monsters are a threat for a loooong time, and conversely, you are a threat to monsters that would eat you unsalted in PF.
For the ease of adapting PF1 material to PF2 alone, I'm pretty glad PF didnt follow the same route, but I also prefer that style.AnimatedPaper2018-07-23T21:24:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewMark Seifter (Designer)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6852018-08-02T11:36:43Z2018-07-23T21:12:34Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Elleth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Elleth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more. </blockquote>Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time. </blockquote>I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you were using CR 15-16 dragons as BBEGs for level 20 characters in PF1? </blockquote><p>Oh sorry. I'm more poking fun at myself for how I run 5e, where it's easier to pull hideously unbalanced encounters because with enough prep time or allies any fight is a fair fight, to the point where I've started considering such monsters disposable.
<p>I.e. I eyeballed the maths and threw a CR 16 monster against my players when they were level 4, a CR 23 with a high damage aura against my players when they were level 6, and a cognitively impaired low AC CR 20 dragon against my players when they were level 11. I have a really tough fight to prepare for next session where the Barbarian wants to fight the BBEG in single combat, and I'm hoping it turns out fun.</p>
<p>I think from what we've seen of the scaling of PF2 I won't be able to get away with this, but the new action economy should give me more ways to play with interesting fights. </blockquote><p>Ah, so the reverse situation with extremely big foes at very low levels. That's always an easier one to pull off (with resources as you suggest) than a much weaker foe than the PCs as a satisfying BBEG fight. You are right that 5e allows you to go much farther outside the PCs' level range than PF1 and PF2 do.Elleth wrote:Mark Seifter wrote: Elleth wrote: Mark Seifter wrote: It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more.
Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time. I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you were using CR 15-16 dragons as BBEGs for level 20 characters in PF1? Oh sorry. I'm more poking fun at myself for how I run...Mark Seifter (Designer)2018-07-23T21:12:34ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewEllethhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6842018-07-23T21:05:17Z2018-07-23T21:05:17Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Elleth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more. </blockquote>Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time. </blockquote>I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you were using CR 15-16 dragons as BBEGs for level 20 characters in PF1? </blockquote><p>Oh sorry. I'm more poking fun at myself for how I run 5e, where it's easier to pull hideously unbalanced encounters because with enough prep time or allies any fight is a fair fight, to the point where I've started considering such monsters disposable.
<p>I.e. I eyeballed the maths and threw a CR 16 monster against my players when they were level 4, a CR 23 with a high damage aura against my players when they were level 6, and a cognitively impaired low AC CR 20 dragon against my players when they were level 11. I have a really tough fight to prepare for next session where the Barbarian wants to fight the BBEG in single combat, and I'm hoping it turns out fun.</p>
<p>I think from what we've seen of the scaling of PF2 I won't be able to get away with this, but the new action economy should give me more ways to play with interesting fights.</p>Mark Seifter wrote:Elleth wrote: Mark Seifter wrote: It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more.
Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time. I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you were using CR 15-16 dragons as BBEGs for level 20 characters in PF1? Oh sorry. I'm more poking fun at myself for how I run 5e, where it's...Elleth2018-07-23T21:05:17ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewMark Seifter (Designer)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6832018-08-02T11:36:28Z2018-07-23T20:38:26Z<p>"It isn't over until the valkyrie sings..."</p>"It isn't over until the valkyrie sings..."Mark Seifter (Designer)2018-07-23T20:38:26ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewQuidEsthttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6822018-08-02T11:36:25Z2018-07-23T20:37:02Z<p>Verbal component: “Then perish.”</p>Verbal component: “Then perish.”QuidEst2018-07-23T20:37:02ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewMark Seifter (Designer)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6812018-07-23T20:33:50Z2018-07-23T20:33:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Elleth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more. </blockquote>Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time. </blockquote><p>I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you were using CR 15-16 dragons as BBEGs for level 20 characters in PF1?Elleth wrote:Mark Seifter wrote: It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more.
Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time. I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you were using CR 15-16 dragons as BBEGs for level 20 characters in PF1?Mark Seifter (Designer)2018-07-23T20:33:50ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewEllethhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6802018-07-23T20:27:42Z2018-07-23T20:27:42Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more. </blockquote><p>Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time.Mark Seifter wrote:It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more.
Hopefully I can avoid making such things disposable bosses up until that point this time.Elleth2018-07-23T20:27:42ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewMark Seifter (Designer)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6792018-08-02T11:36:15Z2018-07-23T19:21:53Z<p>It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more.</p>It's a terrifying ability also because it's only a single action. However, it's fair to say that by the time you get it, an Ancient Black isn't going to be the BBEG any more.Mark Seifter (Designer)2018-07-23T19:21:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewDragonborn3https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6782018-07-23T18:56:53Z2018-07-23T18:56:53Z<p>Both of those names sound great.</p>Both of those names sound great.Dragonborn32018-07-23T18:56:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewCaptain Morganhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6772018-07-23T17:59:26Z2018-07-23T17:59:00Z<p>That sounds right, yeah. It seems like you're really going to be able to kick folks with a look this time around.</p>That sounds right, yeah. It seems like you're really going to be able to kick folks with a look this time around.Captain Morgan2018-07-23T17:59:00ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewEllethhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6762018-08-02T11:36:04Z2018-07-23T17:48:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Captain Morgan wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Elleth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Captain Morgan wrote:</div><blockquote> I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.) </blockquote>Any idea what this ability is? I feel like embracing the rampant demise of my high-end monsters. </blockquote>It was called Final Arpeggio or something in that vein. There isn't an easy way for me to verify at the moment, though I think Mark may have mentioned it somewhere in the thread. </blockquote><p>Oh god, I think it was called Fatal Aria or something.
</p>
Yay horrifying Bard Powers. Yay.</p>Captain Morgan wrote:Elleth wrote: Captain Morgan wrote: I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.)
Any idea what this ability is? I feel like embracing the rampant demise of my high-end monsters. It was called Final Arpeggio or something in that vein. There isn't an easy way for me to verify at the moment, though I...Elleth2018-07-23T17:48:50ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewCaptain Morganhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6752018-07-23T17:44:26Z2018-07-23T17:44:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Elleth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Captain Morgan wrote:</div><blockquote> I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.) </blockquote>Any idea what this ability is? I feel like embracing the rampant demise of my high-end monsters. </blockquote><p>It was called Final Arpeggio or something in that vein. There isn't an easy way for me to verify at the moment, though I think Mark may have mentioned it somewhere in the thread.Elleth wrote:Captain Morgan wrote: I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.)
Any idea what this ability is? I feel like embracing the rampant demise of my high-end monsters. It was called Final Arpeggio or something in that vein. There isn't an easy way for me to verify at the moment, though I think Mark may have...Captain Morgan2018-07-23T17:44:26ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewEllethhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6742018-08-02T11:35:50Z2018-07-23T17:35:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Captain Morgan wrote:</div><blockquote> I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.) </blockquote><p>Any idea what this ability is? I feel like embracing the rampant demise of my high-end monsters.Captain Morgan wrote:I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.)
Any idea what this ability is? I feel like embracing the rampant demise of my high-end monsters.Elleth2018-07-23T17:35:35ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewCaptain Morganhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6732018-07-23T17:00:14Z2018-07-23T17:00:14Z<p>I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.)</p>I believe Mark mentioned spell point usage on know direction, including something which kills anything up to and including an ancient black dragon with no save that costs 2 spell points. (20th level ability, but still.)Captain Morgan2018-07-23T17:00:14ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewShinigami02https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6722018-07-23T16:45:01Z2018-07-23T16:44:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">QuidEst wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragonborn3 wrote:</div><blockquote> It seems weird that the Bard is getting a ton of auto-scaling spells when that same thing was deemed too powerful for a sorcerer. Guess we gotta let the Wizard shine still, eh? </blockquote><p>... Huh? You mean the stronger cantrips? Inspire Courage, our example, doesn’t scale. It’s just strong because you’re getting it as a feature, part of replacing a spell per level. The other ones (some of which will scale, I’m sure) require class feats. <b>... huh, just noticed Bard doesn’t seem to get something to spend spell points on.</b> Sorc’s powers auto-scale too, but are limited use.
<p>Or do you mean one of the muses providing additional heightened spell(s) if you spend a class feat? I’d be cool with Sorc getting that kind of option, and I think Mark was at least looking at something like that? </blockquote><p>Focusing Emphasis mine
<p>I think the default for Powers (which Counter Performance and some other Compositions are stated to be) is that they cost a Spell Point to use unless otherwise stated.</p>QuidEst wrote:Dragonborn3 wrote: It seems weird that the Bard is getting a ton of auto-scaling spells when that same thing was deemed too powerful for a sorcerer. Guess we gotta let the Wizard shine still, eh?
... Huh? You mean the stronger cantrips? Inspire Courage, our example, doesn’t scale. It’s just strong because you’re getting it as a feature, part of replacing a spell per level. The other ones (some of which will scale, I’m sure) require class feats. ... huh, just noticed Bard...Shinigami022018-07-23T16:44:36ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewDragonborn3https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6712018-07-23T16:21:53Z2018-07-23T16:21:53Z<p>Hmm. I misread something. Never mind.</p>Hmm. I misread something. Never mind.Dragonborn32018-07-23T16:21:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewQuidEsthttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6702018-07-23T16:10:37Z2018-07-23T16:10:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dragonborn3 wrote:</div><blockquote> It seems weird that the Bard is getting a ton of auto-scaling spells when that same thing was deemed too powerful for a sorcerer. Guess we gotta let the Wizard shine still, eh? </blockquote><p>... Huh? You mean the stronger cantrips? Inspire Courage, our example, doesn’t scale. It’s just strong because you’re getting it as a feature, part of replacing a spell per level. The other ones (some of which will scale, I’m sure) require class feats. ... huh, just noticed Bard doesn’t seem to get something to spend spell points on. Sorc’s powers auto-scale too, but are limited use.
<p>Or do you mean one of the muses providing additional heightened spell(s) if you spend a class feat? I’d be cool with Sorc getting that kind of option, and I think Mark was at least looking at something like that?</p>Dragonborn3 wrote:It seems weird that the Bard is getting a ton of auto-scaling spells when that same thing was deemed too powerful for a sorcerer. Guess we gotta let the Wizard shine still, eh?
... Huh? You mean the stronger cantrips? Inspire Courage, our example, doesn’t scale. It’s just strong because you’re getting it as a feature, part of replacing a spell per level. The other ones (some of which will scale, I’m sure) require class feats. ... huh, just noticed Bard doesn’t seem to get...QuidEst2018-07-23T16:10:37ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewDragonborn3https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6692018-07-23T15:36:54Z2018-07-23T15:36:54Z<p>It seems weird that the Bard is getting a ton of auto-scaling spells when that same thing was deemed too powerful for a sorcerer. Guess we gotta let the Wizard shine still, eh?</p>It seems weird that the Bard is getting a ton of auto-scaling spells when that same thing was deemed too powerful for a sorcerer. Guess we gotta let the Wizard shine still, eh?Dragonborn32018-07-23T15:36:54ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Paizo Blog: Bard Class PreviewTender Tendrilshttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lky8&page=14?Bard-Class-Preview#6682018-07-22T00:22:51Z2018-07-22T00:22:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MadScientistWorking wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Brock Landers wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Excaliburproxy wrote:</div><blockquote>That said, I also like the design space of a completely mundane/martial leadery class (as I have discussed elsewhere). </blockquote>The best implementation of that is the Noble class for d20 Star Wars Saga Edition, I find it vastly superior to the Marshal and Warlord of 3rd and 4th Ed, respectively. </blockquote>I'm looking at it and what does it do? It seems like its just a generic 3E fighter. </blockquote><p>The Envoy in starfinder is a good example- they inspire and motivate and demoralise people without using magic, giving their allies bonuses to hit designated targets, extra move actions and restoring stamina points while applying status effects to opponents. It's basically a nonmagical bard and is surprisingly fun without the magic (but works better in a Sci-Fi or modern setting)MadScientistWorking wrote:Brock Landers wrote: Excaliburproxy wrote:That said, I also like the design space of a completely mundane/martial leadery class (as I have discussed elsewhere).
The best implementation of that is the Noble class for d20 Star Wars Saga Edition, I find it vastly superior to the Marshal and Warlord of 3rd and 4th Ed, respectively. I'm looking at it and what does it do? It seems like its just a generic 3E fighter. The Envoy in starfinder is a good example- they inspire...Tender Tendrils2018-07-22T00:22:51Z