#MooreandMe: On Progressives, Rape Apologism, and the Little Guy

So, here are some cheerful statistics for you: According to RAINN, about 60% of rapes aren’t reported. In those cases, there’s about a 51% chance that the 40% of reported rapes will have an arrest made. There’s an 80% chance of prosecution. And, given various factors including conviction and sentencing, there’s only about a 16.3% chance that someone who commits rape will serve time for that rape. Meaning: If we factor in the rapes that go unreported, only 6% of rapists ever serve time. EVER.

Gee, it sounds like making sure that rape accusations are taken seriously, and pursued to the full extent of the law, in all cases, is a pretty important issue, for progressives!

Meanwhile, here are some facts: A man has been accused of rape by two separate women. He fled the country in which he was accused. He is fighting extradition, so that he won’t have to go back to that country and face charges — even though there are spectacularly low rates of conviction for accused rapists, he just doesn’t think that he should have to go through the system, for whatever reason. And you know who’s posting bail for him?

Fucking progressives. That’s who. Including one man who has, for some years now, served as one of the most prominent and recognizable faces of the American left, filmmaker/rabble-rouser/all-around champion of the Truth and the Little Guy, Michael Moore. He’s put $20,000 hard, cashy dollars on the line, so that Julian Assange, white male left-wing darling, will be able to get out on bail despite posing a substantial and acknowledged flight risk, and despite the fact that he evidently is working to avoid facing the charges of his accusers. And why is that? Well, as per Michael Moore’s lengthy diatribe on the subject, which contains exactly one paragraph about the rape charges, his reasoning is as follows:

For those of you who think it’s wrong to support Julian Assange because of the sexual assault allegations he’s being held for, all I ask is that you not be naive about how the government works when it decides to go after its prey. Please — never, ever believe the “official story.” And regardless of Assange’s guilt or innocence (see the strange nature of the allegations here), this man has the right to have bail posted and to defend himself.

In other words: Never, ever believe the women who are accusing Assange of rape. Never, ever believe the allegations that he forcibly held a woman down and raped her, never, ever believe that he raped a woman while she was unconscious. “Regardless of his guilt or innocence” — and it’s clear that Moore has chosen to believe in his “innocence,” despite the fact that Assange’s working to avoid being tried for the crime — help him. Don’t believe anything you hear about the charges, don’t believe the official story, despite the fact that Assange’s people have been caught lying — it turns out there is no such crime as “sex by surprise” in Sweden as Assange’s lawyer Mark Stephens alleged, it is not worth a fine of $715 because it doesn’t exist, and there is also no Swedish law against having sex with a broken condom; what is against the law in Sweden, it turns out, is rape, which is what Assange has been charged with — and a reasonable person might assume that they are the ones it’s unsafe to believe. Don’t believe them. The allegations are “strange.” (They sure did seem that way, when they were being inaccurately reported all over the place, thanks in part to misinformation spread by Assange’s defense.) Believe Michael Moore.

Believe Michael Moore when he tells you that giving $20,000 in bail is fair, because WikiLeaks is important, because the government keeps secrets, and for a lot of people, “secrets killed them.”

Sorry, but you brought this upon yourself. No one can hide from the truth now. No one can plot the next Big Lie if they know that they might be exposed.

Says Michael Moore. But hey, Michael, you know what exposes a Big Lie, a lot of the time? Rape allegations. You know who knows all about big lies? Women who have been raped. Raped, sometimes, by powerful men within our communities; raped by men who were beloved and supported by those communities; raped by our fellow progressives. And we didn’t report, because we knew no-one would believe us; because we knew we’d be shamed and smeared and lied about and harassed until we agreed to go away and let the Big Lie continue to exist. You want to employ the phrase “secrets killed them?” Women who have been raped know all about how secrets can kill people. And how, often, it’s telling the secret that gets you killed. Ask the women who are pressing these charges — their names have been so widely leaked, in one case by your fellow “progressive” media dudebro, Keith Olbermann, that it is possible to find their home addresses, their personal blogs and social media accounts, and to track their activities and personal lives. I’d imagine that they are very much in fear for their lives, due in large part to people like you, Michael Moore, who are insisting that they should not be believed.

And you’re the face of the Left. You have the platform, you have the power, you have the cash and the fame and the name and face recognition: You claim to speak for us. And when you speak, you don’t stand against rape.

So, who remembers the climactic scene of Roger and Me? Everybody, right? Poor little guy Michael Moore, standing up against The Man, standing outside the office of The Man, in fact, just because Roger has done something that has immeasurably harmed his community, and he wants to talk to the guy. He wants to hold him accountable. He wants Roger to look him in the face and tell him why he’s hurt all of these people.

You know what immeasurably harms the progressive community, though, is rape and rape apologism. Is victim-blaming; is accuser-smearing; is the unwillingness of men in positions of power to consider rape a crucial issue that must be taken seriously. And the person who’s hurting our community, and refusing to take responsibility for that, right now, is Michael Moore.

So thank God he’s on Twitter. He is @MMFlint, in fact! And here’s what we’re going to do: We’re going to use the #Mooreandme hashtag to tell him why what he has done and said is wrong. We’re going to talk to the man. We’re going to stand outside his window with a megaphone until he comes down and talks to us. And what we’re going to say — what I hope you’re going to say — is this:

We are the progressive community. We are the left wing. We are women and men, we are from every sector of this community, and we believe that every rape accusation must be taken seriously, regardless of the accused rapist’s connections, power, influence, status, fame, or politics. We believe that rape is a crucial and central issue which affects us all, women disproportionately, and we are sick of being told that you should “never, ever believe” us. We believe that accuser-shaming, accuser-harassment, victim-blaming, and the suppression of rape cases all serve one distinct purpose, which is: TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO RAPE US AND GET AWAY WITH IT. To make us scared to report our rapes, even to the people we know. And we will not stand for it any more. We require — not ask, not prefer, absolutely require – progressive media and public figures to stand against rape in every case. Again, this is not negotiable. This is mandatory. This is a requirement: If you don’t stand against rape, and make that stand a crucial and central part of your platform, we do not accept you either as a real “progressive” or as someone who is in any way qualified for authority or a leadership position. We will not buy your merchandise; we will not support you; we will speak out against you. Because a progressive movement that doesn’t stand against rape isn’t a progressive movement. It’s just The Man, it’s just the oppressor, it’s just oppression, in a baseball hat, holding a camcorder.

Please tweet @MMFlint, using the hashtag #Mooreandme, until we have an explanation from Michael Moore, and preferably an apology, and preferably $20,000, donated to an anti-sexual-assault organization of his choice.

You told us the little guy had to stand up, Mr. Moore. You told us the authority had to be held accountable for harming communities. You told us that the Big Lies were worth exposing. But you’re promoting the Big Lie, you’re harming our community, and this time around, the little guy is us.

We can be loud. We can be persistent. I hope you’re prepared.

This was written by Sady. Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2010, at 1:00 pm. Filed under Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Follow comments here with the RSS feed. Both comments and trackbacks are currently closed.

“The way this is being prosecuted is obviously informed by politics. The charges are real and should be taken seriously.”
See how I did that, Mr. Moore? See how it’s totally possible to say those two things and have them both be right?

The frustrating thing about this (aside from the fact that real women may have been raped) is that this will be used as a talking point for rape accusations against powerful men for years to come.

“How can you believe that Senator [X] sexually assaulted one of his interns? Don’t you think it’s a little convenient that these accusations are surfacing now, on the eve of the passage of [Important Bill Z]? Don’t you remember what happened to Julian Assange?”

I am all about this!
My tweet:@MMFlint Political aggression in prosecution does not turn rape into consensual sex or rape charges into “hooey” #mooreandme

Glad to participate in something so necessary and awesome. I would love to hear his defense of his actions and whatever lame rationalization of the this apparent love for left-leaning white boys with power being confused or purposefully conflated with standing up for the “little guy”. And by love, I mean briefly amused by, followed by majorly depressed by.

It seems possible that the phrase “official story” as used by Moore was meant to refer to the “story” of the authoritarian-government hell-bent-on-preserving-power and not of the accuser. But then, I’m armchair-psychologizing Moore…

@Matt: His statements are still aimed at discrediting these accusers, and he’s openly stated that he believes the charges to be “hooey.” Are you joining, or balking? Because there’s room for you if you join. The whole rest of the Internet for you to comment on if you’re not on board.

This is a very good critique, and Moore’s comments and actions are clearly fucked up, but I think you should really re-read the bid where he says “never ever believe the official story”— he is not saying women should not be believed, he is instead positing a conspiracy theory that the women are victims not of Assange but of Assange’s enemies, as pawns in a political game. Now, if he’s wrong— and he probably is— than his actions still add up to these rape victims getting ignored… but he really didn’t say to “never ever believe” women who bring up rape allegations, and by saying he did when he clearly didn’t, you weaken what could be a very strong argument.

@Matt: Yeah, that’s my interpretation of what he meant, too. The implication of it, though, is that the woman accusing Assange are tools of that authoritarian-blah-blah-blah and thus aren’t even a factor in his decision to post bail. Before he went on Olbermann, he wasn’t necessarily calling the women liars, just totally inconsequential. After Olbermann, it’s both.

Do you have a link to an accurate story on the rape case? The one I read the other day completely painted Assange in an “unjustly accused” light. It was very convincing, actually, so I’d like to see info that is unbiased and accurate—well, if that’s still possible.

I agree that rape is never excusable and he needs to face these charges. I’m just curious to see how much the case has been twisted—by either/both sides.

It’s pissing me off big-time that even the more “truthy” and less tabloidical reports on this case ALL mention Miss A’s “guide on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends that she wrote her own self and is totally about cheating boyfriends,” yet, considering it is a BLOG POST, nobody sees fit to fucking LINK TO IT, no matter how disrespectful they are towards the women’s privacy otherwise. We can publish their home addresses and photographs, but we cannot actually link to the thing on the Internet that she wrote that proves she is evil!

And, fucking OBVIOUSLY, this is because said guide DOES NOT EXIST. I went and BACKREAD TWO YEARS OF MISS A’S BLOG and it is NOT THERE. What is there is a link to an English-language ehow.com article on revenge, generally, written from a rather philosophical point of view, and talking about how, like, you should seek revenge against a specific action of the person and not the person in general, and that the revenge you seek should fit the person’s offense or it will not be cathartic, and stuff. There is something about cheating partners that is used as an *example* (The link is http://www.ehow.com/how_2296915_get-legal-revenge.html to the article; I’m not going to link to Miss A’s blog, but Jessica Valenti did if you don’t believe me that that’s the damn article). Through awkward Google translate (as I do not read Swedish, I admit) got the notion that she was, for some reason or other, having philosophical thoughts about the nature of revenge or some shit like that. Not that she was a particularly vengeful person trying to figure out ways to fuck with people.

But of course, that’s not as exciting as how awful the things that random dudebros on the Internet JUST TOTALLY KNOW she wrote without even seeing them are.

…And quite frankly, if the lady had written an article on how to fuck with your sorry-ass cheater of a boyfriend, then as long as “file false rape accusations against him; it will TOTALLY WORK” wasn’t specifically on it, then SO FUCKING WHAT.

I sent my first tweets today, because of you and this campaign. Rape is a progressive issue. If Moore is unconcerned about rape, or feels it is an issue of less importance than the Wikileaks, or if he feels that some good deeds give people rape freebies, then he is not an ally.

All I would have wanted is for him to reserve judgment until the case has been tried. He couldn’t manage that? He should be ashamed of himself.

I caught Moore on Olbermann last night. Olbermann’s hypocrisy and opportunism are just astonishing. I remember when he was all angry faced that Bill O’Reilly slut-shamed a young girl who was raped and got on his soap-box and played Progressive Man Who is Angered by the Way Women are Treated…and then this happened. Then some dude on his team didn’t just victim blame, but may have raped two women and he could not be quicker to tear them down. I cannot believe this is the standard for “Progressive Media.” It’s painful.

It’s great to stick up for women and support rape allegations being taken seriously. I also hate that some Wikileaks supporters are using this as an excuse to wax misogynistic.

But I think it’s also important to always make it clear that the legality, morality, and significance of Wikileaks is completely unrelated to Assange’s guilt. We can all agree that scandalous celebrity trials receive undue attention over much, much more important stories.

Hashtags (#) are ways for Twitter to track “trending topics” to see what people are talking about. Great way to mine/ track/ search for data, to show your solidarity for a cause, etc.

Also, an excellent way of denoting sarcasm, irony, or an aside.

To denote that you’re talking about a particular Twitter user like Michael Moore (who tweets as MMFlint), put an (@) symbol in front of their username. Like the hashtag, it can then be tracked to see who is talking to or about who.

Just goes to show that when people talk about rape what they’re really talking about is what they think about women. MM thinks women lie about rape.

Progressive men seem to think that if they do a bare minimum of not-being-a-total-asshole stuff then they get cookies, blowjobs, and….rapes. The contempt some lefty men have shown for these women and their accusations has been breathtaking. They obviously think that if you vote for abortion you’ve earned a few ‘get-out-of-feminism’ careds.

Anybody think, even for a second, that if Julian Assange wasn’t Julian Assange, this case would be prosecuted with even one percent of the effort and vigor it’s getting?

That’s the bit that makes me sad.

We SHOULD treat rape allegations this seriously. That would be justice. Sadly, we don’t, which tells me that the urgency here comes from something besides justice.

I hope there’s justice in the trial. I really do. If this case gets slammed through because of US arm-twisting, that says “Rape is one of the privileges of power, it’s okay as long as you don’t piss off anyone bigger than you.”

Thank you, Sady. It’s refreshing to see someone taking Assange (and Moore, and Olbermann) to task after having heard people praise the man to the heavens and dismiss the accusations from his victims. Rape is never okay, no matter who did it.

@Allison: I liked that analysis until about halfway through, and then he lost me.
And he, like basically everyone else on the internet, is getting distracted by analyzing whether he did it or not, which nobody knows except him and the alleged victims. What is up for public debate is whether or not his alleged actions constitute rape, which they do. Conflating those two things is bad journalism and bad science.

Just a note about the statistics–most rapists commit multiple rapes, so the number of rapes is not the same as the number of rapists. 6% of rapes result in prison time, but that doesn’t mean that it’s just 6% of rapists put behind bars.

This is one of the things that enrages me so much these days: progressives, liberals, socialists, humanists, LITERARY STUDENTS who flat out state: ‘Oh you, don’t believe the press you silly girl, don’t you see, you’re being manipulated! Just wake up and realize you’re just a sheep following the crowd.’
To which I say nothing, out of complete bafflement and projectionary shame.

How convenient that #femalesneedto has been trending so hot over on Twitter for the past week or so. Anyone want to join in co-opting that irritating sexist trending topic (with such recent gems as “#femalesneedto act more like ladies and less like hoes”) and trying to get #Mooreandme a bit more visibility?

I’m starting with “@MMFlint: #femalesneedto kick your inconsistent ass to the curb. #Mooreandme” but I’m hoping to get more elaborate as the mulled cider kicks in.

Now if I could just figure out how to incorporate “National Cupcake” and “Scarlett Johansson”…

In your first paragraph, you misquote the stats you reference. It’s 40% of rapes are reported, not 60%. Just a typo, but at first it put me off because it makes the 6% at the end of the paragraph mathematically incorrect =). You may want to fix that. =) For folks like me, when I see incorrect numbers it makes me less open to everything else being said, and what you are saying *is* imporant.

@mrm0683: That article presented inaccurate information. There were a lot that did, when the case first broke (or, broke again) earlier this month. However, you’ll find links above that provide more accurate descriptions of the charges against Assange.

And now I have a Twitter account. Maybe we should harness feminists together like this for more issues? I can only imagine how much more attention we could get to issues like IVAWA and . . . any number of issues, really.

I already twitted him yesterday (without the hashtag obviously) when he cheered that JA was released on bail (before the release was delayed): “@MMFlint he was arrested for suspicion of sex crimes. Would you cheer for any other rape suspect’s release?”

I am a progressive and a man and I was extremely offended by his behavior.

“never, ever believe the “official story.”” is not the same thing as “Never, ever believe the women who are accusing Assange of rape.”

I don’t know what Moore said on Olbermann. But you’re reading a lot more into his words above than is there. “Don’t just accept what you’re hearing” is not the same thing as “these women are lying sluts.”

A lot of “progressives” – not only men, eg Naomi Wolf – have been revealed as having fucked-up attitudes about rape by the Assange case. The dismissal of the charges as somehow trivial is totally indefensible – if Assange is guilty of what he’s being charged with, he deserves jail.

But at the same time, in 99.999% of rape accusations, there’s essentially no reason to think the woman is lying and every reason to think the man is. I mean, what, did someone hand her $1000000 in unmarked bills to ruin his life, or threaten to disappear her into a secret prison in Eastern Europe? That’s actually not out of the realm of possibility here; there really is a global conspiracy (aka the US national security state) working against Assange. And, there’s no reason for the accused rapist to expect a court biased against him – very much the opposite. Again, in this very rare case, it’s not crazy to think that even if Assange turns out to be innocent, he’ll spend the rest of his life in jail.

@Adrenalin Tim: Again, my only comment is “BLAGH.” And “curse you, lack of coffee!” Thanks for pointing it out! See, what I like to do is, I like to admit it when I screw something up. Unlike a certain Twittering documentarian we know.

There is ALWAYS a reason not to believe a rape victim. I have never heard everyone reach a consensus that a given victim was raped either in my personal circle of friends or in the public sphere. Even when the dude has *confessed* (like the “did she bounce” case discussed here once, so long ago, in a Tiger Beatdown) people still have doubts.

I agree Michael Moore: don’t ever believe the official story. The official story is that the man is never a rapist.

Thank you for posting this. Disturbing how many people share Moore’s views.

I joined the twitter chorus in support, and got a reply from (twitter user) @ray_peterson saying Assange had not been accused of anything defined as “rape” in the US. I replied that having sex with an unconscious woman is rape, in the US. His response? “Have some hot chocolate, take your meds, have a nap.”

So, sisters: post in support of victims of sexual violence, and discover the men on twitter who think Assange is a hero and women need to be condescended to.

It is absolutely enraging that people are constantly conflating Assange’s work with Wikileaks, the politics surrounding that work, and the fact that he’s a rape suspect. It’s like we’re twisting our ankles trying to side-step the reality that THOSE THINGS ARE NOT RELATED, and that TWO WOMEN MAY HAVE BEEN RAPED and are DEFINITELY BEING TERRORIZED and that KINDA FUCKING MATTERS.

Even if their accusations are false (which, considering that the FBI recently reported that only about 9% of rape accusations that are pursued turn out to be false, is unlikely), they should still be treated seriously and fairly until they are proven one way or the other.

Also, their identities MOST DEFINITELY shouldn’t have been released. That is just baffling. The vitriol being lobbied at those women is deplorable. It’s like progressive/liberal/Democratic men are seizing the opportunity to bash women with a disturbingly sincere gusto.

Which brings me to my point: Michael Moore, what the fuck is wrong with you????

I am so goddamn sick of how terrifying it can be to be a woman, and how everyone around us (even some of us) try so hard to pretend everything’s okay. Only a profoundly skewed society would produce and perpetuate the kind of rape culture we’re living in. We all live in it, to varying degrees. It’s maddening to the point that it’s surreal.

(Sorry I wrote a novella. If you didn’t notice I’m kinda pissed, haha.)

Julian Assange, the supposed Champion of Truth ™, is using politics to hide his own misdeeds. Governments are using rape accusations to win a stupid game of cat and mouse. Nobody is a good guy.

All of this political manoeuvring is only hurting the victims. Rape is not a political tool; I resent the government bodies involved and the accused and his minions for using rape to further some political agenda.

Sady, I’ve been busily tweeting all day, at both Michael and Keith (I’m usually a big fan of his, but we’re going through a really rough patch right now thanks to this and some other things…), and sadly they’ve not responded yet, although Keith got into a debate with one of my friends JUST BEFORE HE WENT ON AIR. Literally, he just left at one point TO GO DO HIS LIVE SHOW. I don’t even.

Anyway, he didn’t talk about any of this tonight, though I wish he had, and you know what would be awesome? If they invited you on there. Countdown suffers from a general lack of female voices most of the time. It’d be so cool to see you there. I mean, it might not happen, but I can dream, can’t I? Keep on keepin’ on.

I share most of the above opinions. Dissing MM seems short-term. As a long-term solution, can we get our various justice systems to begin prosecuting rape in the same way that they might prosecute robbery, assault, or other personal crimes? How?

Dear Michael Moore,
Thank you for making me feel shame for something that happened to me years ago. more so, thank you for making me feel ashamed that I ever thought you were a decent human being.
No love, Me

@Anna: Thanks so much! I’m going to try to get the screencap of the “This user has protected their Tweets” screen shot converted to a GIF or JPEG from TIFF, so I can post this blog, and I’d also love to post a photo of the tweet you linked, but since right now it contains an active link to an article naming a rape accuser (which we don’t do here), I want to see if someone can blur or block out the link itself. I just want to be clear on what we’re objecting to, without further leaking the information that endangers the accuser.

@Devin – yes, actually, but we wouldn’t be hearing so damn much about it. The Swedish justice system is not perfect when it comes to dealing with rape cases but it’s certainly better than many others. I mean, I’ve read a good chunk of the depressing books and articles about how the Swedish justice system fails despite its proclaimed progressiveness, and I can still believe that extradition would be requested in a case like this with a less well-known suspect.

Which is not to say that the huge public shitstorm that this thing is now won’t have an impact on the course of justice one way or another.

@Katrina on 74: That guy wasn’t just condescending to you. He was threatening to rape you (“take a nap” … implied so someone can do to you what J. Assange is accused of doing).

Because the strongest argument against the accusation of being dismissive of rape is to threaten someone with rape. And no, it’s not “just a joke”: it’s a way of bullying people and perpetuating the rape culture.

Anyway, Katrina, run like hell if you ever meet this guy in real life.

I think perfectly justified emotion is clouding people’s commentary on this matter here and elsewhere and I’d like to make some simple points for the sake of continued discussion.

- Assange may be innocent of the charges against him.
- Rape charges are made falsely at times, unfortunately.
- We must assume innocence until guilt has been proven for everyone’s sake, male or female.
- Thus we have to be careful not to prematurely condemn Assange for rape until a court of law has dealt with the charges.
- Rape claims must be taken seriously and investigated regardless of the character of the accusers or current circumstances of the alleged perpetrator.
- More rape claims should be reported and investigated than are currently.
- Even without statistics stating the same, it is reasonable to assume that the number of successful prosecutions for rape is very far behind the number of cases where rape has actually occurred.
- The false reporting of rape does not imply other rape claims must be taken less seriously.
- Not all male progressives are claiming the rape charges against Assange are false. Do not paint them all with the same brush.
- Moore is doing a disservice to his causes and supporters and especially to Assange’s accusers by discounting their claims of rape based upon my next point:
- Assange’s arrest on rape charges and the manhunt for him could very well have been accelerated and expedited by the exertion of political pressure from people upset at Assange’s involvement with WikiLeaks. It is sadly like the instances when police look for the slightest traffic infractions to bring in and hold suspects that they cannot yet bring in on larger charges. This time however, there are highly placed people who care little for the accusers of Assange for rape but for the chance to imprison him for any reason.

That is what would have been more constructive of Moore to state. In light of the difficulty of women achieving prosecution against their rapists, Moore should have chosen his words much more carefully lest he add to the problem of claims of rape not being investigated adequately.

@Frank: That’s reasonable. I hope you don’t think that you’re the first person to make all of these points simultaneously, though? Lots of women have already made them, such as Jessica Valenti, Jill Filipovic, and Anna North. This sounds an awful lot like, “ladies, ladies, let a MAN explain this to you,” especially when you open with a claim that you and you alone are able to look at these things without “emotion.”

*See what I did there? I left in enough info for YOU to identify YOURSELF, but I didn’t throw your contact info to the wolves. Because I respect you as a human being — though not so much as a blog commenter! — enough to do that.

No, I wasn’t assuming I was originating those thoughts or being the only one making them. (Just doing my part to save the world by restating the obvious in times of peril!)
I certainly did not mean to unduly ascribe emotionality to yourself or solely your female respondents. Please, please don’t assume that I would do so. (I have feelings too! Heh.)Nor did I mean to imply I was solely capable of any constructive detachment.
I merely think it serves text-only discussion/debate over the web by having intermittent summations rather than allowing tangential debates to derail the developments you have so rightly called attention to. (Which is also not meant to discount your ability to moderate any replies you receive.) The kind of reaction you had to what I wrote at the start and how others were interacting on this issue is exactly why I thought so many simple points needed to be made. (I certainly won’t be offended if you see no need to add this followup to the page… it’s effectively off topic.)

Sady, thank you for this post, which made me feel like crying with relief.

Frank 103, you’re still mansplaining. Please shut up. Please stop with the sage “Alas, women do make false rape allegations, sadly” comment (your second point – after – “now, now, Assange may be innocent) in a long, patronizing list of Why The Ladies Need To Think About These Important Things Before They Claim That The World Is Largely One Big Cesspool of Rape Apologia. Go back and READ. THE. POST. for the FACTS about rape, reported rape, prosecution, and conviction of rape. Then just keep quiet.

I have experience in criminal justice. Sure, there are false accusations of rape. However,it is extremely difficult to prove a rape case, and for it to have come to the point that he had charges filed there has to be evidence.
I’ve always admired his willingness to stand against bullying and hypocrisy…and now I feel he is guilty of both of those.

I just closed my twitter account, but I am opening a new one for this. My mom and my formerly Republican blue-collar dad LOVE Micheal Moore. I am livid he is so conditional in his morals. Great post Sady.

Yes… I quit watching everyone on MSNBC after that little anti-woman BS they put out there. And yes I want to take them down as the face of the left, because those zealots don’t represent me, and they never will. I am so pissed about this…..
Great post Sady, great post and spot on.

re: “If we factor in the rapes that go unreported, only 6% of rapists ever serve time. EVER.”

I SUSPECT that what the stats you’re quoting, assuming they are correct, actually mean is that, for any particular rape, the chance of the rapist spending time in prison FOR THAT RAPE is 6%. The important point here is that most serious crimes are committed by people who commit more than one crime, so every victim who can work through the system and put a criminal in jail (it can take a lot of courage, strength, patience, and persistence) is probably sending to jail somebody who has actually committed several crimes, and whose being in jail may very well prevent the commission of additional future crimes.

Also, it should have been fairly evident a long time ago what an unfair, worthless, biased, a$$h01e Michael Moore is–even if SOME of his targets may be worthy targets.

Thanks for this great post, an important contribution to this debate, a debate that seems in many cases to have turned many friends into enemies and new battle lines to be drawn.

I think Assange should be investigated and punished for anything wrong he’s done to these women. And yet I do worry that being in custody or in a Swedish prison will make it easier for his enemies (the U.S. government) to go after him for espionage or whatever other crazy charges they make up to punish him for Wikileaks. But this doesn’t absolve him from any wrongdoings to these 2 women.

I’m just glad that Wikileaks apparently is bigger than just Assange, and if he gets jailed or assassinated, the institution he has set up will continue to do its important work, even if its founder is, sadly, a rapist.

To share my story, sadly, my rapist admitted to doing it but since the investigating officer messed up his facts in his summary to the DA . . . he got off on a technicality. Blood, sweat and tears went into getting this person in jail and our country lets another – ADMITTED – rapist on the loose.

I’m A MAN.
I’m BLACK.
I’m 42 AGEYEARS.
I’m FAT.
I’m AUTISTIC.
I’ve NO PARTY.
I’ve NO WING DIRECTION.
I know myself as a LIBERATION LIBERTARIAN.
I don’t do TWITTER.
And I WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE THE WOMEN WHO ARE ACCUSING ASSANGE OF RAPE.

I am not a progressive. I am not a conservative. I’m an independent who hangs around in the center cause I think leaning too far in any direction means eventually you tip over.
But most importantly, I am a father of 2 daughters. So, I will ask Mr. Moore this- If my daughter was accusing a darling of the left of rape, would it be dismissed as “hooey” if you liked his politics and not hers? Rape has no political affiliation or slant. It’s just an atrocity.

Dr. Lewis E. Braverman, a Harvard trained endocrinologist, engaged in indecent A&B of the breasts of all of his female patients while he was working at UMass Medical Center in Worcester, MA. Multiple doctors observed the assaults, yet no one stopped him even after patients complained.

Thank you so much for this post! I’ve been in massive feminist rage about this ever since some idiot guy called me a FASCIST for daring to suggest that hey, guess what maybe Assange did commit rape, we can’t just write off the claims of those women because he’s a powerful man. After my blind rage abated I began looking about for intelligent commentary on this, and here you are.

Hey, you know what feels really good in this feel-bad scenario? donating to the defense of Bradley Manning (Glenn Greenwald has a link at Salon).

Somehow the plight of the alleged leaker kid actually living in 23 hour a day solitary hasn’t raised quite the same enraged empathy among Progressive Manpeople as the plight of the beleagured alleged rapist.

(though Ida thunk the courage to leak is sort of at the heart of Wikileaks)

Could it be because one is a gay fella and the other is a het sexxee (possibly forcible) sexytimes fella?

I was raped in my sleep as well, by a progressive man.
I didn’t report it, because I didn’t want to face police disbelief, or flat-out being turned away from the police station, being ostracised from my circle of friends – the first person I told, straight after, didn’t believe me – and I just took advantage of the fact that I was changing countries anyway to cut off all ties.
All this is making me want to throw up. I didn’t want to go through it myself – I find it inconceivable that anyone would put themselves through this kind of shit multiplied by a billion since the man you’re accusing is a progressive hero with worldwide supporters.
Yeah, those two women are really going to benefit from accusing him.
I used to be fond of Michael Moore as well. Those days are definitely over
Thanks Sady.

Take care, Assange’s defenders are actively hacking anyone’s account information who posts a defense of the women involved, by tracking back to their e-mail account information. I posted a response on the Independent sympathetic to the woman’s perspective and that the facts needed to be investigated. I got several nasty posts back attacking me as a dup and worse. Within 24 hours my e-mail was hacked and my accounts accessed. These rape apologists are OUT OF CONTROL.

Just a couple obvious points. If Assange had responded to the womens original requests for STD test, this would not have blown up in his face. He refused to communicate with them – if it walks and quacks like a duck – maybe he is just a rapist…

Assange raised thousands to defend Pfc. Bradley Manning, and has given his defense team 0$ Can we all post or tweet Oberfool and Moore – WHERE’s THE MONEY??? afterall – Manning is the TRUE Hero here!!!

It infuriates me that the self-aggrandizing Assange insists that his progressivist agenda precludes his eligibility for prosecution for sex crimes. Because being famous is a justification? Is Mr. WikiLeaks Hero starting to remind anyone else of Kobe Bryant?

@ Lora, wasnt this the Polanski defense? He is just such a good director and he does movies about liberal issues… And we all know the evil USA court system is corrupt and all…

When Polanski happened last year, all my liberal friends had the same Saint Assnage excuses…
She looked older than 13
She dress sexy (asking for it i guess)
Her Mom was a gold digger
Two psycologists said he was ok!
The Judge was corrupt because he didnt accept ple bargin
The DA agreed to reduce sentence to time served

The last two were great. Just because the DA recommends a plea bargin, doesnt mean the Judge has to accept. The Liberals used the Judges non-acceptance to show the whole process was tainted against Polanski – watch the HBO special. Just like this case, they avoid talking about the facts or allow the facts to be explored, and delve into flights of paranoid fantasy – so with Assange, it will be a CIA honeypot operation, which they will all believe with absolutelty no proof.

@134: Thank you, Julia. I assume you were referring to the now deleted comment that was using a survivor’s testimony to concern troll? From the person who is no longer welcome to comment on this site? Because they are a terrible, terrible human being?

I just want to join the chorus of thanks. I survived rape but did not report it because I was convinced by his friends (and even a few of mine) that I would not be believed. I was very young and still developing my political beliefs but I considered myself a feminist and a staunch supporter of people who had been sexually assaulted. Still, I could not bring myself to report. This is the insidious nature of rape apology / victim blaming and it needs to stop. What Julian Assange accomplished with WikiLeaks and the why and how of his prosecution are SEPARATE ISSUES from the dismissive, at times hostile attitude towards the women he is accused of raping and attitudes about the importance of rape (and by extrapolation, women) in general.

I just want you to know that what I think you are doing is fucking awesome and that I think you are so brave. And passionate. And incredibly dedicated. As a young feminist, you inspire me. Stay strong, Sady! Much love. Will be tweeting.

Thank you so much for being the first person to talk about this rationally, and hold that horrible guy accountable for what he’s accused of.

P.S. Just because the second woman seemed interested in Assange before she met him does not make her 1) a “stalker,” 2) obsessive, or 3) in any way RESPONSIBLE for any actions Assange may have taken towards her. Just more victim-blaming.

I need to find the link, but some reporter uncovered some long-form ramblings Assange posted online about five years ago … he goes on about women and how “they just want someone to stand up to their father.” He treats women in an extremely shallow and harmful way. Personally, even through the victim-blaming narratives out there in the mainstream press, I can 100% see how this guy (it’s always the arrogant/powerful ones) did exactly what they are saying he did.

Stepping into the fray a little late on this one I guess, but WOW. Sady, your post was amazing and has inspired me to call out anyone I know who starts spouting any of this rape apologist BULLSHIT, whether it’s about Assange or any other case. Now excuse me, I need to go create a twitter account and ritualistically burn some Michael Moore DVDs.