Wide Purges After Stage-Managed Coup Will Cripple Turkey

As fake evidence now gets sorted out from the real stuff considerable evidence emerges that the coup in Turkey was either completely staged or at least a controlled provocation as a prelude to large, well planned purges.

While some junior officers involved in the coup may have believe that it was for real, Erdogan and his power apparatus knew that the coup was coming and had everything under control. One wonders how those juniors were deceived and what provoked them into their hasty, amateurish, hapless attempt. Did some allegedly upcoming investigation spook them?

#Turkey: Erdogan confirms coup forces surrounded his hotel in Marmaris...4 hours after he had left. That's a special sort of ineptitude.

It also explains why two F-16 fighter jets, allegedly part of the coup, had Erdogan's plane in sight but did not take it down:

"At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters.

"Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said.

These pilots were not real partakers of the coup. They must have had orders not to shoot. Flight radar data showed Erodgan's plane circling in a holding pattern south west of Istanbul for hours. It would have been very easy eliminate him.

From the same Reuters piece:

The former military officer said the coup plotters appeared to have launched their attempt prematurely because they realized they were under surveillance, something corroborated by other officials in Ankara.

Colonel Pat Lang, who for years worked as U.S. military intelligence official in Turkey, contacted old acquaintances:

I am assured by Turkish sources that Erdogan and senior officers he had appointed manipulated low level plotting to create a "coup" that could be defeated easily leading to his consolidation of power.

The Auspicious Incident (or Event) (Turkish: (in Istanbul) Vaka-i Hayriye "Fortunate Event"; (in Balkans) Vaka-i Şerriyye, "Unfortunate Incident") was the forced disbandment of the centuries-old Janissary corps by Sultan Mahmud II on 15 June 1826. Most of the 135,000 Janissaries revolted against Mahmud II, and after the rebellion was suppressed, its leaders killed, and many members exiled or imprisoned, the Janissary corps was disbanded and replaced with a more modern military force....Historians suggest that Mahmud II purposely incited the revolt and have described it as the sultan's "coup against the Janissaries".

This coup is Erdogan's Reichstagsfire, the alleged torching of the German parliament building in February 1933 which was used by Hitler to purge communists and other enemies of his rule.

The stage-managed coup is now followed by a real one in which Erdogan takes down all presumed enemies.

Within hours after the coup against Erdogan 2,750 judges were relieved. Hundreds of judges, including supreme court judges selected by Erdogan's AKP predecessor Gul, were imprisoned. Last night 7,899 police and 631 gendarme officers were relieved of duty and their weapons confiscated. 30 governors and 47 local governors have been suspended. The Higher Education Board announced an upcoming "cleaning" at schools and universities. Twenty independent Turkish news sites have been closed. Businessmen and bankers not in line with Erdogan are next. The lists used for these wide purges must have been prepared well ahead of the coup.

3,000 soldiers, conscripts ordered to take part in the coup but also many high officers were imprisoned. These include 103 generals and admirals, many of whom had not taken part in the coup but explicitly spoke out against it. More high officers were relieved of duty. All major units of the Turkish military have lost some of their top commanders. Captured soldiers were humiliated by police special forces, the most loyal to Erdogan. They had to undress and were shown cowering on the ground. Pictures of these humiliations were widely distributed. This will break moral on all military levels!

The move against the military is reminiscent of Stalin's purge of officers in the Soviet military in 1937-41. The Soviet military disaster in the Soviet-Finish winter war of 1939 and the incredibly high losses in the first years of the fight against the Germans and their allies were the result of these purges. The Turkish military, the second biggest of NATO, is now an empty hull and will no longer be able to launch any consistent, larger operation.

Erdogan has asked his followers to stay in the streets for a whole week to "defend the state". The purges are not over.

One might argue that this coup and Erdogan's purges, will give him independence in foreign policy and will allow him to move out of the U.S./NATO realm towards Russia, China and Iran. Erodgan's people accuse the U.S. of being behind the coup. The threat of blocking Incirlik air base, the center of U.S. operations in Syria, against Russia's southern flank and the main storage area for U.S. tactical nuclear weapons in the Middle East, will cower Washington and prevent any outright "western" measures against him.

The Turkish state is now crippled. The experience and knowledge of all those people purged now is irreplaceable. Any unexpected event, military or civil, will be met with confused and disordered responses. Despite Erdogan's current success hubris will take its toll and Erdogan's triumph will soon be followed by a deep fall.

What are the real friends Turkey under Erdogan has left in the international field? Some toothless Muslim Brotherhood leaders and the dictators of Qatar are the only ones I can think of. Without international goodwill left anywhere Turkey's economy will soon be in ever deeper trouble. The problem of radical Islamists, incited by Erdogan to fight against the Syrian people, will come back to bite Turkey. Erdogan may have believed that such radical forces are controllable. He will become another sorcerer's apprentice to learn that they never are.

These extreme Jhadis Erdogan imported and supplied in Syria are also the reason why we all should be happy that the coup did not by any chance succeed. Would Erdogan have been killed, civil war on the streets of Turkey would have been inevitable. Heavily armed Islamist would have attack the army and other government forces. Various ethnic and religious groups would be fighting each other. The war by radical proxies in neighboring Syria and Iraq would have come back home to Turkey just like the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan came home to Pakistan.

That still might happen. But the chances that some upcoming misstep by Erdogan will now lead to a less brutal change of power are higher than before.

"At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters.

"Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said.

So we have unknown people with direct access to Reuters asserting X happened and it is taken as gospel? Color me sceptical.

Check out the Business Insider article from 2013 to see how Erdogan was being set up for the fall and how.

1. "Erdogan admitted today an TV that he knew the coup was coming:"
- No he didnt, I dont know turkish but apparently he only saw some suspicious
military activity 7-10 hours it occured.

2. "That the coup was expected explains why Erdogan left his vacation hotel in Marmaris hours before soldiers showed up to arrest him:"
- No and why wouldnt he leave the hotel it was obviously not safe since the army showed up?

3. "This coup is Erdogan's Reichstagsfire, ", But the chances that some upcoming misstep by Erdogan will now lead to a less brutal change of power are now higher than before.
- Well if Hitler gained more power due Reichtagsfire, how come Erdogan will possibily face regime change/weakening asap if this is his "Reichtag"?

4. "This coup is Erdogan's Reichstagsfire, the alleged torching of the German parliament building in February 1933 which was used by Hitler to purge communists and other enemies of his rule."
"The stage-managed coup is now followed by a real one in which Erdogan takes down all presumed enemies."
- Why was it needed a coup for that? Turkey have "purged" or rather arrested coup groups on and off for years now, in the hundreds.

5. "Within hours after the coup against Erdogan 2,750 judges were relieved. Hundreds of judges, including supreme court judges selected by Erdogan's AKP predecessor Gul, were imprisoned. "
- Really? I have found no evidence that hundreds of judges (incl. supreme court judges) have been imprisoned. Whats your source here?https://www.rt.com/news/351776-istanbul-emergency-police-f16-erdogan/

6. "These include 103 generals and admirals, many of whom had not taken part in the coup but explicitly spoke out against it."
- No, atleast thats not what your source Yahoo says.

7. "Pictures of these humiliations were widely distributed. This will break moral on all military levels."
- Disgusting enough, the only break of will is of course the coup army people.

8. " The threat of blocking Incirlik air base, the center of U.S. operations in Syria, against Russia's southern flank and the main storage area for U.S. tactical nuclear weapons in the Middle East, will cower Washington and prevent any outright "western" measures against him."
- Nothing of this sort have even been threatened with, besides Turkey is depedent on US, not the other way around, even the link you just posted on Kerry confirm this.

9. "The experience and knowledge of all those people purged now is irreplaceable."
- Well coup subversion risk is reduced, good according to most turks I assume.

10. "That still might happen. But the chances that some upcoming misstep by Erdogan will now lead to a less brutal change of power are now higher than before."
- Weird argument, on the one hand the argument that Erdogan is behind the coup and he will
strengthen himself with "purges" now you say he is more weak than ever.

From the US initial response I think that the US was clearly behind the coup from the first minute and something made them to change course at the very last minute. Someone also made the coup forces in the streets to fold down with very little fight back in the early morning. They could have retreated back to barracks, resisted and waited for the response from other army units after the initial failure. However that didn't happen. Erdogan and the islamist security services knew for sure about the coup, probably that's partly what threw the coup and the US out of balance, and probably planned for the aftermath and perhaps even moved to things to force the coup handlers hand. I also don't think the coup happened on a rush. I don't think the coincidence with the release of the 9/11 Saudi report is a real coincidence. Not sure who benefits from hiding the document release behind the coup, the Saudis for sure, perhaps some US factions too? A fight between different US factions could also explain the failures in the coup. There may have been a faction for the coup and a faction against which tipped of Erdogan.

@3 anon, 'no matter how vile Erodgan is, and that is the thought of a more gung-ho pro-Western replacement'

I watched a Sibel Edmonds video linked to in the previous thread and that was her point. Whoever replaces Erdogan will be worse.

You know, with the results of the coup as outlined above by b and by Sibel as well, it looks like the coup was not a failure from the CIA's point of view. They have made of Turkey another failed state in the Middle East. That's been their 'game plan' for the past 15 years, and they're stickin' to it.

The neo-cons are trying to put the US back in the position it was in at the end of the second world war. Everyone else on their backs, the USA still standing and calling the shots. Country by country they are achieving their aim. I'm beginning to wonder if the lights will finally go on all over the world at the same instant? or if they will just never go on at all?

To me the dial currently points to the Islamic/Ottoman Revolution taking over Turkey (see Iran 1979). What happens depends on whether Erdogan and his local and abroad islamist backers manage to reach a new power sharing agreement with the US. But given how egomaniacal risk taking Erdogan has become as he amassed power my hunch is that anything Erdogan proposes will be too costly for the US to accept and the Islamic/Ottoman Revolution scenario will unfold. US will be forced to back down and disconnect.

The other likely scenario is Algeria (but 100x times worse), a bloody multi-faction civil war that will make Syria and Iraq seem a kindergarten fight. This time with the islamist heavily armed and trained from the on-set and with direct connection to the world jihad. The US and western partners will have little option than to back the Kurds and Syria in this increasingly global civil war. Iran isn't going to fight against an islamist regime, just like it didn't fight against Morsi, even if those islamist regimes are 100% for a Shiite genocide. Their islamic revolution origins are stronger than any real-politic consideration but will likely just stay aside and defend her interest in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq.

I don't see a popular secular, with 'moderate' US controlled islamist AKP factions involved, uprising taking power from Erdogan's islamist either at this point. He has amassed too much power and popular support now. Neither a military coup (alone or with the secular 'uprising') succeeding. With 1/3 of the generals already in hands of 'police' islamists (and probably similar numbers in the next level) the slaughter when the coup re-starts will be too crippling for the army. These now on Erdogan's hand can't be saved if the coup re-ignites. This is already close to the point where the old kemalist army is already completely defeated, conscripts could go one way or another (40%-60% or 30%-70%), but without enough officer mass it will be just small army bands against much more motivated and increasingly heavy armored islamist security forces and militants. Probably this is a scenario the handlers of the coup didn't consider properly when starting and then stopping the coup suddenly, that stopping the coup would be even worse than a failed drawn down coup.

Erdogan ought to go for it. What's he ever got from the US/NATO but trouble and strife? Make it up with Russia, make it up with China, make it up with Iran, Iraq and Syria ... he'd be right in the middle of the reconstruction of the Middle East. Once the Chinese finally got some skin in the game they'd take a much more active role there. Being outside of NATO would be the best thing that ever happened to Turkey. They've never been, probably never will be a part of the EU ... and that's a good thing. Turkey's NATOxit would lead to the exile of the US from Iraq and to a marvelous renaissance of the Levant, the Caucasus, and Central Asia. Turkey could join the SCO ...

jfl @9 My first thought was that the coup was half-baked because the coup leaders knew Erdogan was on them so they have to run early. I now think the coup was deliberately half-baked by the US to ensure it failed and to allow Erdogan to over-react.

Gulen, the US placeman has now said he is willing to return to Turkey. What better way for the US to get their man in to the country?

if (and that's a big if) usa somehow directly supported the coup - did they have enough time to clean up the evidence? bcs if they did support the coup, and if erdogan can deliver some hardcore evidence, then this shit can escalate real bad. i know, a lot of "ifs", but i guess we're heading in that direction.

I'm with Colonel Cassad. Erdo was in gloat mode and would have found the urge to gild the lily irresistible. And 4 hours is plenty of time for bad news to do what it always does - travel fast and produce the worst imaginable outcome.

[Erdogan's] move against the military is reminiscent of Stalin's purge of officers in the Soviet military in 1937-41. The Soviet military disaster in the Soviet-Finish winter war of 1939 and the incredibly high losses in the first years of the fight against the Germans and their allies were the result of these purges. The Turkish military, the second biggest of NATO, is now an empty hull and will no longer be able to launch any consistent, larger operation.

The effectiveness of psyops action was demonstrated by the German High Command, who were well aware of Stalin's paranoia. Stalin's bloody purge against his generals was precipitated by false information, which was sureptitiously planted and taken to be genuine intelligence.

1. Why would MSM report the coup is a false flag?

2. Why is the NYT, the hegemon's "paper of record", groveling before Erdogon?--by laughably describing secularism ( a cornerstone of the now defunct US Republic) as some polar form of extremism?

3. Hasn't the fact that Erdogon has bottled up the American's 50nukes plus NATO personnel at Incirlik airbase, improved his chances of having Gulen handed over to him?

4. What would Erdogan likely conclude if he became convinced that Gulen is not only a CIA asset, but is connected to The Clinton Foundation?

5. What if the bloody, abortive coup, is the effect of a more hidden operation, a psyops coup, and such a coup cannot be derailed, --because it is,-- potentially, a checkmate?

Sibel Edmonds reports that the GLADIO B operations began during the Clinton administration, and that The Clinton Foundation is wired to the Gülenist faction.

This leads me to wonder which party will checkmate the other side. And whose sleight of hand, deception, and misdirection, will prevail over the opponent, and befuddle the public mind? Psyops is akin to the magician's art, after all.

I suspect that Sibel is right when she says, or implies, that Erdogon has pretty much climbed up on the back of the tiger. She's right that as horrible as the Turkish president is, --what is to come is horrible as well, when he gets knocked down.

I wonder if the ramping up of trouble on the Donbas Front is part of this broader struggle between NATO and Russia, with the theater of war pivoting on the psyops moves in Turkey.

Sibel Edmonds say that Gülen is more likely to die, if there is any successful move to extradite him to Turkey.

Gulenists are not Kemalists, and in the aftermath of their "coup attempt" consisting of indicting Erdogan cronies of enormous corruptions (billions), disclosing smuggling weapons to Syrian rebels and tapes of planning a false flag operation, Erdogan made a huge purge in judiciary, prosecution offices and police, while cutting an investigation into alleged coup plot and freeing all officers and other alleged collaborators that were arrested in that investigation.

Almost everybody who displeases the Sultan is "Gulenist". It is utterly preposterous to claim that most of the generals and huge number of officers were Gulenist.

Concerning the "mystery" of pilots not shooting the presidential jet. Clearly, they were ordered not to do it, and this is a plausible order. The plot clearly was under observation of intelligence, with provocateurs in place. Otherwise, how can you tell that there are "suspicious military movements"?

In any case, totally hard to believe that 140 judges in the Court of Cassation (higher instance of appeals) were in the plot. But they could stop confiscations etc. that will now follow.

Popular or not, Islamist or not, Erdogan is clearly a fascist leader. Waves of repression cheered by adulating supporters. Predilection for grandeur (the largest Presidential palace not inherited from imperial times like Forbidden City in Beijing?). Beating up of "disloyal groups" by gangs of supporters. No concentration camps yet, but this is mild Mediterranean fascist, closer to the original template of Mussolini.

Is Turkish state crippled? People actually can be replaced, and as hope is a strong motivator, you can repeat purges a few times -- and the new occupants of the positions will be happy and grateful for the opportunity. Military is perhaps crippled, but it is not like Turkey is about to be invaded or that the war against the Kurds was conducted by irreplaceable geniuses. Police investigation of terror groups may be crippled, but that can be a feature rather than a bug (some terrorism is useful, and intelligence tracks terrorists anyway and the intelligence agency MIT is the main pillar of Erdogan's reign.)

If it is a false flag, it is the first time I'm aware of one where the fall guy is the US/NATO. Usually they are the ones perpetrating them. And the MSM now finds itself in the same position truthers have been in; namely trying to persuade others it was a conspiracy but without having all the evidence available to examine. Kind of ironic.

Erdoghan is a despicable human being. But if now he plans to cause trouble for his masters rather than the Syrian people, there is poetic justice in all this.

According to reliable sources who spoke to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity, had there not been a coup attempt July 15 there would have been massive detentions on July 16-17, prompted by the espionage case. These sources claim that the prosecutor of the espionage case in Izmir had already secured Erdogan's approval to order mass arrests before the approaching Supreme Military Council meeting on Aug. 1-4, which would have decided on the next round of promotions and appointments within the TSK. The plotters learned of this plan and launched their sloppy and uncoordinated attempt hastily. In other words, the coup attempt that was planned for a future date was moved up.

ok i get the trick!! that's the new "refugees" blackmail of Erdogan. now he's ready to flood Europe with 40 million Turks from the opposition. If only 2/3 go to Germany where they have relatives, we'll soon have a new configuration! The worse nightmares of the German officials becoming true and without having Turkey into the EU. I wonder what bad dope they were poured.

This faux coup is pretext and Gulen is an excuse. Erdogan has consolidated his power.

I'm not understanding why USA/CIA would want to remove Erdogan. Hasn't he done as they wished?

Occam's razor: Erdogan was weakened by the Syrian escapade (esp. after downing Russian plane) and needed to strengthen his grip on power. This coup achieved that. CIA/Mossad and Saudi Arabia/Gulf States are likely to be pleased.

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What would entice a bunch of junior officers to mount a coup? Promised support from some senior officers? Promised support from NATO/USA? Both? My guess is both.

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Sibel Edmonds complains about a CNBC tweet (from 'senior US military source') that started the rumor that Erdogan was seeking asylum from Germany. She says this was in support of coup.

But we now know that this weak coup attempt had little chance of success.

IMO this rumor was probably meant to entice all Erdogan opponents to identify themselves. Rather than showing USA/CIA support for the coup, it shows USA/CIA support for Erdogan(!)

A low level civil war was going on in Turkey before the coup, one launched by Erdogan against the Kurds. And the jihadis are already out of control, even if Erdogan has been using some of their recent attacks as excuses for his policies. And as far as the Turkish economy goes, there is a general crisis in world economy. Any blows to tourism are minor compared to that. It is certainly not obvious that further integration into the EU or similar organizations isn't integration into a sinking ship. As near as I can tell, the OP's optimism that "after Erdogan, us," is misplaced. Besides, who's us? One of Erdogan's goals is restoring the Ottoman empire in some form and that means replacing any semi-independent Arab regimes. Today, that means only Assad. This goal is shared by the US. The US quarrel with Erdogan over the Kurds isn't going away, his creation of a full dictatorship means I think it's going to get worse.

So this time you agree with conventional media B?
Don't you find it suspicious that everyone out there is bashing Erdogan? Erdogan certainly likes to be a dictator, so he's nothing more than a regular autocrat, but that doesn't mean this was not masterminded by the u.s. Erdogan's just following the carpe diem rule. And it could be the beginning of the end of nato. But certainly they will try to 'neutralize' him. On and on, till success.

I haven't listened to the Sibel Edmonds. I'm a little skeptical of her- wasn't her site previously behind a paywall? And I can't remember whether I heard her speaking on Iran or Syria, but it raised some flags. Her deposition testimony I did take a glance at recently, some interesting stuff starting on p.94 re Gulen and possibly a senator from NY.

@45 I think so, but she was fired by the FBI around or after 9/11 for whistle blowing about the Islamist gangsters that have participated in the giant clusterf*** that's going on in that region. She's good at what she does but would not be able to do it without getting paid to

Excerpt: "It was reported also that F-16s from both sides entered dogfight over Ankara and Istanbul, however no aircraft has been shot down according to the reports obtained thus far. Interestingly, one of the coup plotters aboard a “rebel” F-16 was the pilot who shot down the Russian Su-24 Fencer that had violated the Turkish airspace back in November 2015."

"Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu meanwhile dismissed as "unacceptable" a claim by the EU enlargement commissioner, Johannes Hahn, that the government in Ankara had drawn up arrest lists before the coup attempt.
The government has blamed the coup attempt on supporters of a US-based Muslim cleric, Fethullah Gulen."

The list of 2757 suspended jurists was made in few hours after a meticulous investigation. I recall that during his 17 second overflight of a tip of a prong of Turkish territory Russian pilot received several warning. The time flows very differently in Turkey, something that is not sufficiently appreciated outside the country. And Erdogan praise of the "Gift of God" compounded the impression that the Almighty could be in fact assisted by Erdogan folks.

Some ask: why the story of Erdogan staging the coup has so much traction in the Western press? That seems obvious. First, it is very plausible, the purge lists were surely ready in advance (perhaps waiting for a suitable occasion, perhaps they had a dual purpose, purged lists could provoke a coup that required many willing participants, after all). Second, the good will toward Erdogan really wore very very thin. He flooded Europe with refugees on the scale that I do not recall, then he bargained for six billion Eures, and he already engaged in types of repressions that is frowned upon: purges of the judiciary in response to corruption investigations, confiscating legitimate enterprises and banks. I mean, you can level some cities with "terrorist population", "everybody would do the same", but de-facto confiscation of property is not done in polite circles. And the war on Kurds is indeed perceived as cynical wag the dog. In short, Erdogan surely was and will be tolerated, but with sufficient distaste that the mighty West has to unleash its Kvetching Power.

On the bright side, with Turkey going "full Putin and more", Lebanon dysfunctional, Iraq wracked by war and Tunisia far away, Israel once more becomes "the only democracy in the Middle East", or "TODITME". (I would call it "one of the two most liberal theocracies in the World", but the moniker TODITME is very dear to the heart of most of her friends, except for the few who thinks that Israel should be an absolute theocracy).

Late breaking news: Erdogan has announced that many of the coup plotters were in fact Americans. He has therefore announced a total purge of several thousand judges and journalists and elected officials in the United States, including everyone in the Democratic and Republican National Committees.

This is, of course, a joke. But upon reflection, perhaps not such a bad idea...

Gazprom will be building a new direct pipeline, from Russia to Turkey, as part of the recent rapprochement between Russia and Turkey; and the new projects will include increase of capacity in the existing Blue Stream pipeline.

Perhaps the Turkish president is working on the presumption that the US had a hand in the coup; but on the other hand, it may not make a difference whether he was behind it instead , because he knows he can use the statements he makes on this subject, as leverage, in order to pull away from US control, and make headway with his mass arrests, without interference from the West. He has to be certain of the fact that Turkey will never be allowed to enter the EU. No Turkish star will be added to the European flag. And he wants to seize power with despotic purges, and do so unimpeded.

Erodogan's capacity for blackmail and brinkmanship is surely a dangerous game, but maybe he is convinced that he has the advantage.

Anybody contemplating a coup d'etat must be willing to execute the "deposee" at first opportunity regardless of collateral damage. Failure to do so opens the door to unimaginable backlash, not only for the conspirators but for all perceived antagonist of the would be "deposee".

I cannot believe that the plotters had the quarry in their sights and failed to pull the trigger.

Erdogan and the AKP have been implementing and executing a soft-coup against the secular NATO-backed military kemalist Turkey for at least five years. Of course they have long lists of possible targets for purges when the suitable conditions are reached. Be it by 'normal' judicial means after 'uncovering' some plot or if my some miracle their enemies shot themselves in both legs like this case and they can go against all their possible targets. The evidence of these lists doesn't imply in any way that the Erdogan/AKP was behind the coup. I doubt they were, though probably they had an early notice of what would happen.

There are plenty of signals that this was planned with US involvement and support (perhaps not at the level of the presidency). And after 10 years of disastrous wars, or wars that became disasters, some people are still expecting a perfect always triumphant US machinations. It's not even sure many times if the US doesn't even care about achieving any other result that just pure chaos/disaster.

A secret investigation into detained Ergenekon group members and other studies outside Turkey indicate that Mossad orchestrated the coup plot against the Turkish government, the report says. The Ergenekon group is a Turkish neo-nationalist organization with alleged links to the military, members of which have been arrested on charges of plotting to foment unrest in the country. Investigators uncovered evidence that show a Jewish rabbi named Tuncay Guney, who worked for Mossad and fled to Canada in 2004, was a key figure behind attempts to overthrow the Turkish government.

A document uncovered this week by the /Sabah/ daily shows how Guney purposefully infiltrated Ergenekon and another organization known as JITEM, an illegal intelligence unit in the gendarmerie suspected of hundreds of murders and kidnappings . The rabbi was taken out of Turkey and sent to the US for protection after his identity was exposed in an investigation by Turkish police, according to Sabah.

The aftermath of the coup and the future of Turkey (and Erdogan) is a matter of some disagreement. Some see a failed state, other see a brighter future - and I side of course with the "brightists".

But trying to see the forest rather than the trees, many commentators are looking to the massive geopolitical shift made by Turkey in recent days and weeks, and seeing the attempted putsch as more of a symptom of the change than a fundamental game changer in its own right.

Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich in an interview Saturday with RT managed to stuff all of the salient points into 10 minutes, and also pointed out that perhaps, for Erdogan, he was finally starting to "come to his senses" with the rapprochement with Syria and Russia. The Syria overtures were public by the way, I hadn't realized. Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich talks to RT International

Pepe Escobar has a really good analysis of the big picture also, and notes with wry and disciplined journalistic skill what happened in the air with Erdogan's plane (nothing) but draws no conclusions - he sides with the view that the intel services detected the coup as it started to move and reveal its shape, and then let it play to bag everyone and finesse the situation. Escobar sees the US failing again, and game on for the Turkish pivot to Eurasia. Hell Hath No Fury Like a Teflon Sultan

Ghassan Kadi continues his theme that the US is withdrawing from the Middle East, and Russia is replacing it as the broker and guarantor of stability. His view on events fits the Turkish situation extraordinarily well. It's at www.thesaker.is which seems to be hard to link to from here. Published yesterday: The New Middle East: Exit America Enter Russia. By the way, for Saker fans, he offers some of his initial thoughts over there in a piece also.

Finally, I haven't had time to read it yet but F. William Engdahl has his own story on the coup. Scanning briefly, it seems that he too feels the coup is a weak and desperate reaction to Erdogan's pivot, rather than any sign of leverage that the west has over Turkey. Behind The CIA Desperate Turkey Coup Attempt

I disagree with the general theme of b's report here that Turkey is in a negative position that will get worse. I see exactly the opposite, and so do the sources offered here.

Person posting on MoA with pseudonym 'GOLAN' check out this information ...

from jpost.com "Two IDF Patriot missiles fired at a suspicious drone that crossed into Israeli airspace from Syria missed their target on Sunday afternoon, and the unmanned aircraft returned to Syria. According to a Channel 10 report, a Hezbollah source said his organization flew the drone “as part of an operation against Israel.” The drone returned to base, according to the unconfirmed report. An air to air missile fired at the target by an IAF aircraft also missed the drone."

@40 dh .. missed your post.. more idle speculation that could be read any which way.

@45 jr.. last line.. might be true.. not enough info to know for me.

@47 hejiminy cricket.. i had read that page 94 on for about 8 or 9 pages to get some of the gist on gulen according to that document... Christoph Germann posted it via his twitter posts a few days ago.. he's posting this now.. .. it's more conjecture and speculation for the rumour mill. turns out jean @50 posted this same link..

at any rate, too many variables and etc, but the lists of people to go after that includes so many make erdogan look like a witch hunter that would have given those in salem a run for their money.. this guy sees demons around every corner.. these kinds of folks have a special place in institutions in the west, but he is running turkey? doesn't look good to me and with such a wild card as erdogan - can't see anything then turkey and erdogan ending badly in the short to medium term..

i read a post from someone showing documentation of someone who was opposed to one of the previous coups in turkey and was listed as anti-gulen.. he is on this updated list erdogan made as being pro-gulen.. tough luck for him to be on both lists, but i think it says something about the lists, lol..

Obviously the 'coup' in Turkey was a fake, a false flag operation to cement power grip of that soulless thug Erdogan and his gang. It was so poorly executed that anyone with IQ above room temp who understands thatmost of the Turkish military brass are not some retarded honchos can see that such a gigantic flop was set up to fail from the begining. You do not conduct such operation by sending some unaware troops to the streets with "it's a drill" orders, because they could be lynched by the mob, just as reported by the MSM (hopefully that was fakery too, otherwise - a big mistake and unneccessary loss of innocent lives, RIR; I have not seen the evidence, and not willing to look, too dpressing). Other obvious reasons are stated e.g. in the VT article cited by ALberto before, even more is reported by the Western MSM.

But ..., as with also obiosuly fake "Bastille Day" false flag, it may be a good thing for Syria and her allies. Regardless of apparent recent closer Turkish-Israeli relations.

Ziad Fadel reported recently that Erdogan fired one of the main butchers of Syrian and Iraqi people - Hakan Fidan. If the mad president has been "turned" by the Resistance Axis, then the reactions to the 'coup' by Russia and Iran are not that surprising anymore. Even quite popular Russian "analyst" Korybko wrote some really idiotic comments supporting the idea of "genuine coup": confimation comes supposedly from the fact that "the coup perpatators will be executed because of re-introduced death penalty'. This line of reasoning is of course pathetic, absurd and insulting readers' intelligence because we have absolutely NO GUARANTEE that - with so many judges removed and due process in shambles - those to be executed are real culprits of any "coup". The sheer fact that Russian propaganda without hesitation is willing to embarass itself is quite telling - a lot is at stakes and much is tolerated from Russia's new ally, Erdogan.

So it was a pre-emptive "coup" hatched to defuse any real coup planned by NATO (Nuland, McCain, Clinton, British Empire) that was imminent as we know from previous reports from last winter. That's why first western diplomatic cables called it "uprising" and only later supported "democracy". That's why the MSM is supporting 100% independent commenters who cast doubt about how genuine the "coup" was. Criticizing Erdogan in the MSM has never been easier than now. Many "experts" for hire are doing in on TV, radio and in the press "as we speak".

To sum it up - Erdogan switched sides and prevented his own removal planned in response for such a move.

Over the past few weeks, several member states of the International Coalition against the Syrian Arab Republic began secret negotiations with it with a view to withdrawing from the war.

These states include members of the European Union and the Commonwealth.

The following three voyages have been disclosed by the Gulf News and Al-Mayadeen:
• a trip by General Ali Mamelouk —coordinator of Syrian Secret Services — to Berlin;
• a trip by General Mohammed Dib Zaitoun — Director General of Syrian Security — to Rome; _ • a trip by General Alberto Manenti — Director of the Agency on Intelligence and Foreign Affairs — by special plane from Rome to Damas.

The High Representative of the European Union, Federica Mogherini, is the former Italian Minister for Foreign Affairs.

All these trips follow Brexit. They are only the tip of the iceberg.

All negotiators interpret the Geneva Communique as having to lead not to regime change but to the establishment of government of national unity presided by Bachar el-Assad.

A Syrian officer is already placed in a European Capital to coordinate the fight against the jihadists.

These contacts contravene the sanctions officially decreed against Damas.

Secretary of State John Kerry visited emergency in Moscow. He successively met with President Vladimir Putin, the then Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. The Secretary of State had come to propose to join military efforts uniens states and Russia against Daesh and Russia had proposed several times in vain. The discussion should focus on the groups to attack and preserve those. So far, Washington supports a distinction between foreign jihadists he condemns and moderate Syrian opposition that it frames. However, during the Festival of Aspen, John Kerry had surprised his listeners by saying: "There are several subgroups Daesh Front and al-Nosra, especially Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar ash-Sham, which do not comply the conditions of the cease-fire and lead the fighting. " Jaysh al-Islam (Army of Islam) is a group funded by Saudi Arabia and supervised until Brexit by British SAS. His representative, Mohammed Allouche, headed the delegation of the opposition "moderate" in the Geneva talks. It is particularly active in the Damascus area.

Ahrar ash-Sham (Islamic Movement of Free Men of Sham) is a group created at the beginning of the war against Syria, even before the Free Syrian Army, a Turkey which frames. It is funded by Qatar and its public relations until Brexit were insured by the British MI6. Most of its leaders are members of al Qaeda, but the organization itself is not affiliated. Thus, the group he was able to publish an opinion piece in the Washington Post. It is particularly active in the governorate of Aleppo.

Military coordination between Russia and the United States should take from Jordan. After four years of war, the superpowers agreed to be a unique interpretation of the Geneva Press (2012): the creation of a national unity government under President Bashar al-Assad.

It is still not confirmed that the White House has approved the Moscow agreement.

@59 dh... well it is beyond speculation that many suspects rounded up will be pissed, or that the general public in turkey are pissed.. that is indeed beyond speculation! whether "9,000 police officers, 6,000 military (103 generals & admirals) 3,000 judges, prosecutors Total ~20K" are indeed guilty, or whether the ''democratically elected'' leader is delusional or not - is or isn't speculative depending on your perspective!

“You must move in the arteries of the system without anyone noticing your existence until you reach all the power centers. . . . You must wait for the time when you are complete and conditions are ripe, until we can shoulder the entire world and carry it. . . . You must wait until such time as you have gotten all the state power . . . in Turkey. . . . Until that time, any step taken would be too early—like breaking an egg without waiting the full forty days for it to hatch.”

—Imam Fetullah Gülen, CIA-asset in a sermon to followers in Turkey

“Because of the large amount of money that Gülen’s movement uses to finance his projects, there are claims that he has secret agreements with Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkic governments. There are suspicions that the CIA is a co-payer in financing these projects.”

—US State Department in a hearing opposing Gülen’s application for US residency

Fethullah Gülen’s Spider Net

As they were deploying Osama bin Laden’s Arab Mujahideen “holy warriors” into Chechnya and the Caucasus during the 1990s—in order to secure oil pipeline routes for the Anglo-American oil companies independent of Russian control—the CIA, working with a network of self-styled “neoconservatives” in Washington, began to build their most ambitious political Islam project ever.

It was called the Fethullah Gülen Movement, also known in Turkish as

Cemaat, or “The Society.” Their focus was Hizmet, or what they defined as the “duty of Service” to the Islamic community. Curiously enough, the Turkish movement was based out of Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania, in the scenic foothills of the Pocono Mountains. There, its key figure, the reclusive Fethullah Gülen, was busy building a global network of Islam schools, businesses, and foundations, all with untraceable funds.i His Gülen Movement, or Cemaat, had no main address, no mailbox, no official organizational registration, no central bank account, nothing. His followers never demonstrated for Sharia or Jihad—their operations were all hidden from view.

In 2008, US Government court filings estimated the global value of Gülen’s empire at anywhere between $25 and $50 billion. No one could prove how large it was as there were no independent audits. In a US Court testimony during the hearing on Gülen’s petition for a special US Green Card permanent residence status, one loyal Cemaat journalist described the nominal extent of Gülen’s empire:

The projects sponsored by Gülen-inspired followers today number in the thousands, span international borders and are costly in terms of human and financial capital. These initiatives include over 2000 schools and seven universities in more than ninety countries in five continents, two modern hospitals, the Zaman newspaper (now in both a Turkish and English edition), a television channel (Samanyolu), a radio channel (Burc FM), CHA (a major Turkish news agency), Aksiyon (a leading weekly news magazine), national and international Gülen conferences, Ramadan interfaith dinners, interfaith dialog trips to Turkey from countries around the globe and the many programs sponsored by the Journalists and Writers Foundation. In addition, the Isik insurance company and Bank Asya, an Islamic bank, are affiliated with the Gülen community.ii

Bank Asya was listed among the Top 500 Banks in the world by London’s Banker magazine. It had joint-venture banking across Muslim Africa, from Senegal to Mali in a strategic cooperation agreement with the Islamic Development Bank’s Senegal-based Tamweel Africa Holding SA.iii Zaman, which also owned the English-language Today’s Zaman, was the largest daily paper in Turkey. The journalist’s description of the Gülen holdings named in the US Court document was very carefully formulated, especially with the statement “projects sponsored by Gülen-inspired followers,” which left actual ownership conveniently vague and completely untraceable.

By the late 1990s, Gülen’s movement had attracted the alarm and attention of an anti-NATO wing of the Turkish military and of the Ankara government.

After leading a series of brilliant military campaigns in the 1920s to win the Independence War that he initiated against an invasion by foreign and allied forces of British, Greek, Italian, French, and other victors of World War I, Ataturk nothing. His followers never demonstrated for Sharia or Jihad—their operations were all hidden from view.

In 2008, US Government court filings estimated the global value of Gülen’s empire at anywhere between $25 and $50 billion. No one could prove how large it was as there were no independent audits. In a US Court testimony during the hearing on Gülen’s petition for a special US Green Card permanent residence status, one loyal Cemaat journalist described the nominal extent of Gülen’s empire:

The projects sponsored by Gülen-inspired followers today number in the thousands, span international borders and are costly in terms of human and financial capital. These initiatives include over 2000 schools and seven universities in more than ninety countries in five continents, two modern hospitals, the Zaman newspaper (now in both a Turkish and English edition), a television channel (Samanyolu), a radio channel (Burc FM), CHA (a major Turkish news agency), Aksiyon (a leading weekly news magazine), national and international Gülen conferences, Ramadan interfaith dinners, interfaith dialog trips to Turkey from countries around the globe and the many programs sponsored by the Journalists and Writers Foundation. In addition, the Isik insurance company and Bank Asya, an Islamic bank, are affiliated with the Gülen community.ii

Bank Asya was listed among the Top 500 Banks in the world by London’s Banker magazine. It had joint-venture banking across Muslim Africa, from Senegal to Mali in a strategic cooperation agreement with the Islamic Development Bank’s Senegal-based Tamweel Africa Holding SA.iii Zaman, which also owned the English-language Today’s Zaman, was the largest daily paper in Turkey. The journalist’s description of the Gülen holdings named in the US Court document was very carefully formulated, especially with the statement “projects sponsored by Gülen-inspired followers,” which left actual ownership conveniently vague and completely untraceable.

By the late 1990s, Gülen’s movement had attracted the alarm and attention of an anti-NATO wing of the Turkish military and of the Ankara government.

After leading a series of brilliant military campaigns in the 1920s to win the Independence War that he initiated against an invasion by foreign and allied forces of British, Greek, Italian, French, and other victors of World War I, Ataturk nothing. His followers never demonstrated for Sharia or Jihad—their operations were all hidden from view.

In 2008, US Government court filings estimated the global value of Gülen’s empire at anywhere between $25 and $50 billion. No one could prove how large it was as there were no independent audits. In a US Court testimony during the hearing on Gülen’s petition for a special US Green Card permanent residence status, one loyal Cemaat journalist described the nominal extent of Gülen’s empire:

The projects sponsored by Gülen-inspired followers today number in the thousands, span international borders and are costly in terms of human and financial capital. These initiatives include over 2000 schools and seven universities in more than ninety countries in five continents, two modern hospitals, the Zaman newspaper (now in both a Turkish and English edition), a television channel (Samanyolu), a radio channel (Burc FM), CHA (a major Turkish news agency), Aksiyon (a leading weekly news magazine), national and international Gülen conferences, Ramadan interfaith dinners, interfaith dialog trips to Turkey from countries around the globe and the many programs sponsored by the Journalists and Writers Foundation. In addition, the Isik insurance company and Bank Asya, an Islamic bank, are affiliated with the Gülen community.ii

Bank Asya was listed among the Top 500 Banks in the world by London’s Banker magazine. It had joint-venture banking across Muslim Africa, from Senegal to Mali in a strategic cooperation agreement with the Islamic Development Bank’s Senegal-based Tamweel Africa Holding SA.iii Zaman, which also owned the English-language Today’s Zaman, was the largest daily paper in Turkey. The journalist’s description of the Gülen holdings named in the US Court document was very carefully formulated, especially with the statement “projects sponsored by Gülen-inspired followers,” which left actual ownership conveniently vague and completely untraceable.

By the late 1990s, Gülen’s movement had attracted the alarm and attention of an anti-NATO wing of the Turkish military and of the Ankara government.

After leading a series of brilliant military campaigns in the 1920s to win the Independence War that he initiated against an invasion by foreign and allied forces of British, Greek, Italian, French, and other victors of World War I, Ataturk had established the modern Turkish state. He then launched a series of political, economic, and cultural reforms aimed at transforming the religiously-based Ottoman Caliphate into a modern, secular, and democratic nation-state. He built thousands of new schools, made primary education free and compulsory, and gave women equal civil and political rights, and reduced the burden of taxation on peasants.

Gülen and his movement aimed at nothing less than to roll-back the remains of that modern, secular Kemalism in Turkey, and return to the Caliphate of yore. In one of his writings to members, he declared, “With the patience of a spider we lay our net until people get caught in it.”iv

In 1998, Gülen defected to the US shortly before a treasonous speech he had made to his followers at a private gathering was made public. He had been recorded calling on his supporters to “work patiently and to creep silently into the institutions in order to seize power in the state,” treason by the Ataturk constitution of Turkey.

Well I spent a little time down that Clara Jobs (Steve Jobs adoptive mother) rabbithole. How come Gulen's picture comes up against her name? She was Armenian. Thanks a lot Jules :).

I think that Gulen is a parked CIA asset, he's got to be well controlled, because he has so much to lose if he goes off the reservation and in addition everything he says and does will be fully monitored. Was he used in this coup? Not clear.

Similarly, US intelligence must have across this, base family members were moved from Incirlik, and whatever happens is steered in the direction that best serves US interests, they have huge experience in managing coups.

Not sure about Sibel and Corbett, I went off them after they went down the "Putin is bad" line (not that I like Putin, but simply because they are on board with that Meme). Her message is that the real coup against Erdogan is coming down the track, this was a test run, setting up Ergodan as the evil manipulator.

If this failed coup was planned and allowed - a coup that killed hundreds and allowed a huge criminal purge, then ISIL terrorist attacks against Turks must be favourable to Erdogan as well.
Terror attacks might've been allowed too, and if not, then I see it that Erdogan doesn't give a fuck about his own people slaughtered since that will increase his abuse of power. Terrorist attacks serve to create fear increasing authoritarianism, fake coup allow for even more authoritarianism. Evil Erdogan won both ways.

And b's desperate idea that Incerlik airbase is so crucial to the evil US Empire is ridiculous. The US Empire has total control over all of Europe and most of the Middle East that surrounds Syria and Turkey. If they lose Incerlik, they've got 1000's of others to choose from. And if Erdogan does reject US use of Incerlik, even Erdogan knows that he would make an enemy of the US Empire which Will result in his quick departure from this earth. Heard of the Turkish Kurds, and future possible deliveries of advanced weapons? Weapons Good enough for ISIL and Al Qaeda, good enough for four Turkish Kurds fighters. The evil US Empire could fuck over turkey so hard if it chooses.

If Russia, China and Iran work with Erdogan then their contempt of the Turkish people will be complete. All in the public view without any Putin fanbots able to seriously disagree - i'm sure that will try but it won't be serious and quite immoral. Wilfully sacrificing the Turkish people for hero worship and geopolitical games. No pressure by these opportunistic amoral states in the decision to not favour a moderate Turkish leader who serve the Turkish people, but simply a counter to the US Empire. Disgusting.

Considering who is gloating about the coup's outcome I suppose M K Bhadrakumar is correct

Calling for a collective campaign in the region against terrorism, the Iranian president urged all regional countries to fight terrorists and eliminate them in order to promote stability and peace across the region.

The Turkish president, for his part, appreciated Rouhani's phone call and said bullets and tanks may kill people but cannot destroy a nation’s ideals.

Erdogan added that the conditions in Turkey have returned to normal, but “we cannot assume that everything has ended.”

The Turkish president emphasized that his country is ever more determined to continue down its path, saying, “We are resolved to cooperate with Iran and Russia for the settlement of regional issues and increase our efforts to restore peace and stability to the region.”

For anyone to make a decisive win in Syria, the city of Aleppo holds the key. Whoever takes full control of Aleppo will win the war. The Syrian-Russian coalition has the upper hand to win the battle of Aleppo, but at what civilian cost? The other way to win it is to bring Erdogan down to his knees; and this seems to be what has happened. If Erdogan seals Turkey’s borders, the terrorists will be doomed.

If we were to connect the above main dots, ignoring many other minor dots which do not need to be discussed individually, we can only see a Middle Eastern Russian-brokered masterplan coming to fruition.

What puts Russia in the position to be able to muster such a plan is the fact that Russia is highly respected and is on fairly good terms with all major players. After mending relationships with Turkey, Russia is now on very good terms not only with Turkey, but also with Syria, Israel and Iran. The foolhardy foreign American policies in the Middle East have turned America into a force that cannot be trusted even by its own allies.

Sibel is right about such a rumor being helpful to a coup, but this coup was so weak that it hardly mattered. That naturally leads to questions about the intent of the rumor (which was sourced to US official).

It is logical that the rumor may have caused some to reveal their support for the coup that were not willing to support the coup until it seemed that it would be successful. That is how this kind of rumor is helpful to the coup, but in a very weak coup or 'false flag' coup those who are drawn in by such a rumor are doing so for naught.

For anyone to make a decisive win in Syria, the city of Aleppo holds the key. Whoever takes full control of Aleppo will win the war. The Syrian-Russian coalition has the upper hand to win the battle of Aleppo, but at what civilian cost? The other way to win it is to bring Erdogan down to his knees; and this seems to be what has happened. If Erdogan seals Turkey’s borders, the terrorists will be doomed.

If we were to connect the above main dots, ignoring many other minor dots which do not need to be discussed individually, we can only see a Middle Eastern Russian-brokered masterplan coming to fruition.

What puts Russia in the position to be able to muster such a plan is the fact that Russia is highly respected and is on fairly good terms with all major players. After mending relationships with Turkey, Russia is now on very good terms not only with Turkey, but also with Syria, Israel and Iran. The foolhardy foreign American policies in the Middle East have turned America into a force that cannot be trusted even by its own

PressTV (Iranian official foreign language news source) does not depict particular love to the plucky democrat Erdogan. In the same time as informing about cordial conversation between Presidents it illustrated the following "news item":

"Take a peek into Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s $615-million presidential palace located on the outskirts of the capital Ankara.
No expense was spared in the building of the 1,150-room “White Palace” which covers an area of 300,000 square meters of an environmentally protected nature preserve called the Ataturk Forest Farm. "

Apparently, the jihadist still receive arms from Turkey. The thaw with Russia is distinctly limited. Turkey offered apologies for the deaths of Russian pilots and compensation to families. Putin dropped the ban on organizing tourist tours to Turkey (I would rather go to Chechnya, security-wise, Crimea, Abkhazia or Greece, which Turkish destination seems safe right now?). But the Turkish Stream was revived, to the common benefit of Turkey and Russia. USA tries to sabotage all pipeline projects of Russia and Iran, but Turkey was never on board with that. Basically, Turkey can get inexpensive natural gas by pipelines from Russia, Iran and Azerbaijan, and be dependent on good will, or more expensive and chancy liquified natural gas as Americans recommend. So Iran and Russia are selling gas to Turkey, and they really need the money while Turkey staked its development strategy on a huge capacity of natural gas fired electric power stations. Also, strategically, Russia needs to bypass Ukraine, so far, still the majority of pipeline capacity from Russia to Europe (and Poland which did not agree to pipeline expansion).

But in the same time, concerning the war in Syria, Iran + Russia are very much on the opposite side of Turkey.

" we are on the verge of seeing a Russian plan unfolding, a plan that will not only form a foundation for ending the “War On Syria”, but also one that will seek an Arab/Israeli settlement.

The plan will have to be based on a win-win situation for all parties involved. The Saudis (and Qataris) will be the only losers. They will probably be left out in the cold and hung to dry. No one really wants to or needs to appease them any longer. Their clout is shrinking, and so are their resources. If anything, the war on terror, if it takes form under a Russian umbrella, may need to confront Al-Saud’s sponsorship to the spread of religious radicalism.

The avalanche of events has started, and as the USA is being shown the exit door by its closest allies, Russia is coming in as the only power that has the ability of resolving long standing niggling issues and cleaning up America’s mess.

Lol, yes, Golan, there is quite a bit of media psyop megaphoning in this latest MoA post. And surely tomorrow will follow a MoA post on Kim Jong-un's successful defeat of some palace coup, ... but nothing about how this will destabilize the muftis and mullahs in DoD, shoving their Crusader THAADs onto the kulaks of South Korea and Eastern Ukraine, and their TRIDENT on the kulaks of Brexit, ...because you'll never hear a whisper of the Pentagram here, only more nuanced multi-layered war pron disinformation.

Principle of what, being a passive aggressive Canadian wanker? Go cast chicken bones and chant spells and
Incantations beneath the fool moon and tell us what you come up with as well as what they're saying over at SST. N silly twit.

Consider also the possibility that the coup might have had foreign backers who were aware that President Erdogan was planning to purge the Turkish government and the armed forces because he believed that there were people in the military and civil service were plotting against him? So the coup plotters decide to set a trap (that he has walked straight into) with the aim of getting him to purge Turkish institutions and weaken and destabilise them enough that the country cannot resist a later coup which topples him and replaces him with a more extreme government even more sympathetic to and eager to co-operate with the US Deep State.

The botched coup and the false flag plot now become part of the general narrative. Whatever Erdogan does becomes "proof" of a staged Reichstag-fire event.

In this scenario you don't need a Color Revolution until Turkey has become a full-blown dictatorship and then all it takes is to lop off its head and replace it with another head.

So the US Deep State (and possibly another country) could still have planned the coup, knowing that what would follow next could be blamed on Erdogan.

I have a comment in moderation, or limbo, from 6-7 hours or about 40 comments back, because it gave a Saker link. What a shame. Too bad, because 3 other links were non-Saker.

I cited Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich in an RT interview, Pepe Escobar in a Sputnik piece, and F. Willianm Engdahl at journal-neo. Also Ghassan Kadi at Saker, because he didn't post it at his own blog. All those views trend to the same narrative.

There is an entire counter-narrative to the one being presented by b here. It says essentially that, rather than Turkey being in a negative position which must get worse, the massive geopolitical shift that Erdogan has embarked his country upon is hugely positive, and far greater than this minor coup drama.

The coup is a reaction, a tremor, a weak symptom of the systemic loss of power in the Middle East suffered by the US as Russia comes to fill the void as guarantor of stability.

Links are supplied for this thesis, if the post ever appears. But everyone here knows how to find the articles anyway. I commend them all to the attention of anyone interested in this alternate (and I would think by now, majority) view.

I couldn't find 'Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich in an RT interview' but I found the other three. Yeah I can see that working out (@14), but the 8-ball is Erdogan himself. I don't see how anyone can predict what he's likely to do. Even though I can see his path of least resistance and greatest success (yeah, right :) drawn on the map in phosphorescent color. We can see that it's the only way for him to go, and incidentally, it looks like the best hope for the region, which is always what catches my/our eye ... but I haven't a clue as to what Erdogan is likely to do. And neither do you, or do you?

@94 grieved.. i read two of the articles you cited, and linked to one of them here at moa earlier. i agree with jfl @95 on the unpredictability of erdogan and frankly what i see as his unstable nature.. interestingly angry arab posted a link which he describes as the best summary and analysis he has seen so far by a lebanese expert of turkish politics but you'll have to use some translate software as it's in arabic here. jens take @90 goes along some similar lines as what i read in the translation..