It's never, ever, EVER a Republican losing because they were less able to convince people to vote for them, it must be evil Librul deceit. It can't possibly be that anything the Republicans have ever done has had a negative outcome. Anything bad you've ever accused the Republicans of is moot, because somewhere a Democrat once did something bad. And god help you if you try and back them into a corner over mutually contradictory beliefs or the raging hypocrisy of the religious right, you'll find yourself playing a game of intellectual Calvinball.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Party Of Personal Responsibility.

I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

If it turns out that the GOP kept a staggering control of the house in spite of getting fewer total nationwide votes, that will demonstrate a catastrophic moral failure of gerrymandering and a tyrranical offense against democracy. We already have the Senate to trample on democracy. The House is supposed to be pure and populist. I'm sick of seeing districts that pack urban blacks, Latinos, and college students into a 90% Democrat district so Republicans can win the surrounding six districts 55:45.

Of course, we all know that anything within 45 percentage points is too close to call.

That is, unless it's a Presidential race, the state in question is Florida, the Sec of State for Florida is ultimately in charge of deciding if a recount is necessary, and also happens to be the campaign manager for your state, then it's just "The Democrats being cry-baby sore losers".

Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.

Tommy Moo:I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

A few points off the top of my head:

Obama won in Paul Ryan's district, so yes, it definitely happens.

Incumbents usually win.

Districts are re-drawn (yes, gerrymandered) every 10 years , so maybe they lag changing opinion

Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont have only one Representative each, so their voters count disproportionally

For anyone remotely interested in my poll worker CSB, I'll leave you with an open letter I penned on the subject of Voter ID laws after a particularly grueling day of working with the public.

From An Anonymous Precinct Worker, An Open Letter to Each Ticked Off Republican Voter:

1. NC State Law does not require me to see a photo ID. Quite the opposite. NC law FORBIDS me from asking for ID unless the registration requirement has not been met.

2. Nothing you have to say on the subject will change point #1. The fact that you don't like state law in no way changes state law.

3. Insisting that I "need" to check everyone's ID means that you're not only obnoxious, but ignorant of the existing law.

4. You are not the 1st person to detail how you could attempt in-person voter fraud. Your ideas are not new, they are not clever, and they are in no way relevant. In fact they are quite stupid. Should you meet the existing requirement of correctly stating a name and corresponding address I will gladly give you the ballot of someone other than yourself, provided you wish to risk 5 years in prison on a felony conviction in order to move an election by 1 vote. If that trade off is worth it to you I'm happy to watch you try.

5. Complaining to me about the lack of a Voter ID law is the equivalent of complaining to the cashier at McDonald's about the cost of your fries: he had nothing to do with it, he can't change it, you're only holding up his line by whining to him. The only thing you have going for you is that I, unlike the guy at McDonald's, can't spit in your ballot before you eat it.

6. The place to voice these ever so important opinions of yours is about 40 feet away from me in the actual voting booth. If you were less angry and more intelligent you would have known that before you walked in. This knowledge would have saved us both some time.

7. The next time you feel it important to occupy some portion of my day by telling me what you think, please go to Hell instead.

In summation, you are not making any significant or profound points. You are wasting everyone's time. You are a self-important pain in the ass and we are laughing at you as soon as you are out of earshot. Please redirect this righteous indignation of yours into some worthwhile cause like feeding the hungry or caring for abused animals. I assure you that what you're doing now benefits no one, least of all yourself.

^ Farking this. Also a NC poll worker, and these republican "you gotta check my ID, you just gotta!" assholes are the worst. They're ignorant as hell, and just a pain in the ass in general. I'm convinced they need their ID out all the time just to remember where they actually live.

jaytkay:Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

A few points off the top of my head:

Obama won in Paul Ryan's district, so yes, it definitely happens.

Incumbents usually win.

Districts are re-drawn (yes, gerrymandered) every 10 years , so maybe they lag changing opinion

Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont have only one Representative each, so their voters count disproportionally

The process should be done by computer algorithm. Districts are drawn by state legislatures, which gives state governments an unfair ability to influence the makeup of the federal government. A voter should be able to vote for one party in state elections and the other party in federal elections without it being a conflict of interests.

Tommy Moo:I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

If it turns out that the GOP kept a staggering control of the house in spite of getting fewer total nationwide votes, that will demonstrate a catastrophic moral failure of gerrymandering and a tyrranical offense against democracy. We already have the Senate to trample on democracy. The House is supposed to be pure and populist. I'm sick of seeing districts that pack urban blacks, Latinos, and college students into a 90% Democrat district so Republicans can win the surrounding six districts 55:45.

Having lived in Texas when Austin was stripped by the legislature of its congressional representation, I agree entirely. Morally, the Supreme Court ought to have rejected gerrymandering long ago, as part of "one man one vote." Politically, it will never happen. The Court used to be above the fray. Now it's just another agency of partisan politics.

I live in one of the saner states, though in a very red district. I offered my driver's license unrequested and told the nice little-old-lady my name, she checked my name on a list and handed my ID back and pointed me to another official who pointed me onward to the polling booth. 5 minutes later I had done my part for democracy. (or not.)

Jim_Callahan:Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.

All the local precincts have reported. But they still need to count absentee ballots, and maybe provisional ballots.

Tommy Moo:I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

If it turns out that the GOP kept a staggering control of the house in spite of getting fewer total nationwide votes, that will demonstrate a catastrophic moral failure of gerrymandering and a tyrranical offense against democracy. We already have the Senate to trample on democracy. The House is supposed to be pure and populist. I'm sick of seeing districts that pack urban blacks, Latinos, and college students into a 90% Democrat district so Republicans can win the surrounding six districts 55:45.

And yet its been part of our system of government for over 100 years. Try not to cry too hard.

Lenny and Carl:For anyone remotely interested in my poll worker CSB, I'll leave you with an open letter I penned on the subject of Voter ID laws after a particularly grueling day of working with the public.

From An Anonymous Precinct Worker, An Open Letter to Each Ticked Off Republican Voter:

1. NC State Law does not require me to see a photo ID. Quite the opposite. NC law FORBIDS me from asking for ID unless the registration requirement has not been met.

2. Nothing you have to say on the subject will change point #1. The fact that you don't like state law in no way changes state law.

3. Insisting that I "need" to check everyone's ID means that you're not only obnoxious, but ignorant of the existing law.

4. You are not the 1st person to detail how you could attempt in-person voter fraud. Your ideas are not new, they are not clever, and they are in no way relevant. In fact they are quite stupid. Should you meet the existing requirement of correctly stating a name and corresponding address I will gladly give you the ballot of someone other than yourself, provided you wish to risk 5 years in prison on a felony conviction in order to move an election by 1 vote. If that trade off is worth it to you I'm happy to watch you try.

5. Complaining to me about the lack of a Voter ID law is the equivalent of complaining to the cashier at McDonald's about the cost of your fries: he had nothing to do with it, he can't change it, you're only holding up his line by whining to him. The only thing you have going for you is that I, unlike the guy at McDonald's, can't spit in your ballot before you eat it.

6. The place to voice these ever so important opinions of yours is about 40 feet away from me in the actual voting booth. If you were less angry and more intelligent you would have known that before you walked in. This knowledge would have saved us both some time.

7. The next time you feel it important to occupy some portion of my day by telling me what you think, please go to Hell instead.

In summation, you are not making any significant or profound points. You are wasting everyone's time. You are a self-important pain in the ass and we are laughing at you as soon as you are out of earshot. Please redirect this righteous indignation of yours into some worthwhile cause like feeding the hungry or caring for abused animals. I assure you that what you're doing now benefits no one, least of all yourself.

CSB time: I voted in NC.

Since I had spent the last two years in Africa serving in the Peace Corps, I wasn't registered, and I had no proof of address other than the post-service correspondence PC mailed to me at my parents' house.

When I explained this to the poll worker, he was awesome. He was like 'No problem, we can absolutely get you set up. I can't ask you for ID, but I can tell you if you have it this process will be a lot faster. So...fast way, or slower way?'

I thought that was pretty intelligent. I was going to pull my ID anyway, but that made it that much simpler. But when the wing-nut in line next to me saw me pull it and started yelling 'VOTER FRAUD!! YOU ASKED HIM FOR ID BUT NOT ME!!' I have never wanted to cock-punch someone so much in my entire life. The poll worker looked like he was thinking that too.

There's a time and a place for ID. But if you're already registered and there's a line out the door, well...that isn't it.

Tommy Moo:jaytkay: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

A few points off the top of my head:

Obama won in Paul Ryan's district, so yes, it definitely happens.

Incumbents usually win.

Districts are re-drawn (yes, gerrymandered) every 10 years , so maybe they lag changing opinion

Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont have only one Representative each, so their voters count disproportionally

The process should be done by computer algorithm. Districts are drawn by state legislatures, which gives state governments an unfair ability to influence the makeup of the federal government. A voter should be able to vote for one party in state elections and the other party in federal elections without it being a conflict of interests.

Iowa does it this way, and then the legislature votes among the 5 optimal computer solutions

Lenny and Carl:For anyone remotely interested in my poll worker CSB, I'll leave you with an open letter I penned on the subject of Voter ID laws after a particularly grueling day of working with the public.

From An Anonymous Precinct Worker, An Open Letter to Each Ticked Off Republican Voter:

1. NC State Law does not require me to see a photo ID. Quite the opposite. NC law FORBIDS me from asking for ID unless the registration requirement has not been met.

2. Nothing you have to say on the subject will change point #1. The fact that you don't like state law in no way changes state law.

3. Insisting that I "need" to check everyone's ID means that you're not only obnoxious, but ignorant of the existing law.

4. You are not the 1st person to detail how you could attempt in-person voter fraud. Your ideas are not new, they are not clever, and they are in no way relevant. In fact they are quite stupid. Should you meet the existing requirement of correctly stating a name and corresponding address I will gladly give you the ballot of someone other than yourself, provided you wish to risk 5 years in prison on a felony conviction in order to move an election by 1 vote. If that trade off is worth it to you I'm happy to watch you try.

5. Complaining to me about the lack of a Voter ID law is the equivalent of complaining to the cashier at McDonald's about the cost of your fries: he had nothing to do with it, he can't change it, you're only holding up his line by whining to him. The only thing you have going for you is that I, unlike the guy at McDonald's, can't spit in your ballot before you eat it.

6. The place to voice these ever so important opinions of yours is about 40 feet away from me in the actual voting booth. If you were less angry and more intelligent you would have known that before you walked in. This knowledge would have saved us both some time.

7. The next time you feel it important to occupy some portion of my day by telling me what you think, please go to Hell instead.

...

That was beautiful.

I think you just summed up the best argument for vote-by-mail ever made. Not having to go out and get whiny old people on me when I'm voting.

Tommy Moo:jaytkay: Tommy Moo: I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

A few points off the top of my head:

Obama won in Paul Ryan's district, so yes, it definitely happens.

Incumbents usually win.

Districts are re-drawn (yes, gerrymandered) every 10 years , so maybe they lag changing opinion

Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Vermont have only one Representative each, so their voters count disproportionally

The process should be done by computer algorithm. Districts are drawn by state legislatures, which gives state governments an unfair ability to influence the makeup of the federal government. A voter should be able to vote for one party in state elections and the other party in federal elections without it being a conflict of interests.

Bbbbut.. State's Rights!

Seriously: as liberal as I am, I don't see a problem with each state's legislature deciding how to drawdistricts in their own state.

Is the system rigged? You betcha, and this is truly a case of "Both sides are bad!", since the Demswere and are doing such things in their strongholds for years*. But the GOP has been so nakedly brazen about it that you just have to laugh in between crying.

*I shall refrain from pointing out that a lot of the Democrats who gerrymandered in thesouthern states to cut out black voters in years past would, in our current climate, probably havemoved to the GOP side because of Nixon's Southern Strategy; the NY Dems sure as hell mess withtheir districts in NYC.

maxheck:I live in one of the saner states, though in a very red district. I offered my driver's license unrequested and told the nice little-old-lady my name, she checked my name on a list and handed my ID back and pointed me to another official who pointed me onward to the polling booth. 5 minutes later I had done my part for democracy. (or not.)

Here in Louisiana, you have to produce an official ID of one kind or another. Often, several precincts vote at a single school or wherever. So they check your ID against the printed list of registered voters for your precinct and you sign your name in the space next to it, and then you line up in front of the antique voting machine. (You're not allowed to feed the squirrels spinning the cage attached to the machine.)

If you're in the wrong precinct line -- or the wrong freaking gymnasium -- they can look at the address on your ID and tell you where to go. And they're remarkably polite about it.

Not many things having to do with government work very well in Louisiana, but this actually seems to be one of them.

I'll leave you with this other gem I wrote after a day at the polls...

Multiple voters have expressed concerns that Barack Obama "owns all of the voting machines" and that by entering their precinct numbers into said machines we are in fact typing a secret code which erases previous ballots. Unfortunately I was not permitted to give the answer I'd like to give these people: "Shhhh... they'll hear you..."

mksmith:maxheck: I live in one of the saner states, though in a very red district. I offered my driver's license unrequested and told the nice little-old-lady my name, she checked my name on a list and handed my ID back and pointed me to another official who pointed me onward to the polling booth. 5 minutes later I had done my part for democracy. (or not.)

Here in Louisiana, you have to produce an official ID of one kind or another. Often, several precincts vote at a single school or wherever. So they check your ID against the printed list of registered voters for your precinct and you sign your name in the space next to it, and then you line up in front of the antique voting machine. (You're not allowed to feed the squirrels spinning the cage attached to the machine.)

If you're in the wrong precinct line -- or the wrong freaking gymnasium -- they can look at the address on your ID and tell you where to go. And they're remarkably polite about it.

Not many things having to do with government work very well in Louisiana, but this actually seems to be one of them.

In a world where the farking marketers can look up everyone's favorite type of lip balm and whether you prefer thin blondes or curvy brunettes in a database, why in the hell can't state be using vote centers by now?

"A week and a half after the elections, 5 seats in the House of Representatives too close to call. Of course, Democrats are leading in all of them. How did you know?"

Because of whatever Acorn morphed into/ Maybe if the libs weren't committing voter fraud all over the place, we wouldn't have to worry about "too close to call". If you don't like your gerrymandered district, move out of it. No one is forcing you to live in your ramshackled shack with people like you.

bugontherug:Jim_Callahan: Either Politico is unclear on the meaning of "100 percent of precincts reporting", or I am. I know this is impolitic of me, but I'm kind of hoping it's Politico, I don't really wanna have to relearn math based on the assumption that 1 =/= 1.

All the local precincts have reported. But they still need to count absentee ballots, and maybe provisional ballots.

OK, fair enough. Average district has 650k people, participation rates are usually on the order of 30% or so (130k people), so I guess in the districts that are 49.9 to 50.1 that's a difference of less than a thousand votes, I could see a district having that many absentee ballots still uncounted if it's a military town or sommat.

I'm a bit more dubious about the 49.5 to 50.5 districts being "too close to call", that's an advantage of in excess of 6k votes to overcome, seems unlikely that that many absentee ballots would even be left uncounted at this point, let alone in proportions so much more skewed than the rest of the district that it could actually tilt things.

Basically, were I a media outlet, I'd go ahead and call most of those and get back to more important stories, like kittens being rescued from trees and human-interest stories about homeless people winning the lottery or whatever.

snowshovel:"A week and a half after the elections, 5 seats in the House of Representatives too close to call. Of course, Democrats are leading in all of them. How did you know?"

Because of whatever Acorn morphed into/ Maybe if the libs weren't committing voter fraud all over the place, we wouldn't have to worry about "too close to call". If you don't like your gerrymandered district, move out of it. No one is forcing you to live in your ramshackled shack with people like you.

I think that on the list of "words that mark you as an idiot" in a political argument, "Acorn" must be high up on the list, along with "lib," "socialism," "Marxism," "teleprompter," "Democrat party," and "thug," Oh.. and "voter fraud" when paired with the Democratic party.

snowshovel:Because of whatever Acorn morphed into/ Maybe if the libs weren't committing voter fraud all over the place, we wouldn't have to worry about "too close to call". If you don't like your gerrymandered district, move out of it. No one is forcing you to live in your ramshackled shack with people like you.

But that's the thing, modern, Democratic urban centers are being gerrymandered to be part of districts with Republican country folk (shack dwellers). I don't want to move to some shiathole.

born_yesterday:jayhawk88: Damn Obama and his majority of voters for continuing to subvert the will of the people!

IT'S TIME TO TAKE AMERICA BACK!!!...from the majority of American citizens, friends and neighbors, that duly elected their representatives.

I am still gobsmacked by the sheer stupidity of that slogan. Any way it's parsed, it's a losing slogan. "Taking America Back" to a time when we were attacked on our own soil. "Taking America Back" to the point where we crashed the market. "Taking America Back" to a fictional time when women knew their place and minorities were rarely seen and never heard from. "Taking America Back" from the wrong half.

Generation_D:And yet its been part of our system of government for over 100 years. Try not to cry too hard.

But, do keep in mind that this situation, a house majority gained with a minority of the popular vote, has only occurred something like 3 times before, and it is only in recent years where computer models have been refined to a level where this sort of result could be the new norm unless something changes.

d23:snowshovel: "A week and a half after the elections, 5 seats in the House of Representatives too close to call. Of course, Democrats are leading in all of them. How did you know?"

Because of whatever Acorn morphed into/ Maybe if the libs weren't committing voter fraud all over the place, we wouldn't have to worry about "too close to call". If you don't like your gerrymandered district, move out of it. No one is forcing you to live in your ramshackled shack with people like you.

I think that on the list of "words that mark you as an idiot" in a political argument, "Acorn" must be high up on the list, along with "lib," "socialism," "Marxism," "teleprompter," "Democrat party," and "thug," Oh.. and "voter fraud" when paired with the Democratic party.

Up until this week, the only time I'd heard the word "libtard" used was here on FARK, either by trolls or people mocking them.

This week, I saw a friend's wing-nut son go off on a rant about all the good reasons for Texas to secede, and how America needs them more than they need us, and somewhere in there, he used the word "libtard" seriously.

Pretty tough to take someone seriously after they do that. shiat, it's pretty tough to not berate them until they're weeping (or apoplectic!).

Skleenar:Generation_D: And yet its been part of our system of government for over 100 years. Try not to cry too hard.

But, do keep in mind that this situation, a house majority gained with a minority of the popular vote, has only occurred something like 3 times before, and it is only in recent years where computer models have been refined to a level where this sort of result could be the new norm unless something changes.

And the same type of computer technology could be used to draw districts that were more-or-less square and had equal number of people and DID NOT take into account party stats.

It's absurd that the sane in the U.S. haven't risen up with torches and pitchforks yet.

Tommy Moo:I eagerly await the statistics on nationwide popular vote for House representatives. It's strange that Obama won the popular vote but the GOP kept the house. Is it likely that millions of Americans voted for Obama and a Republican for Congress?

If it turns out that the GOP kept a staggering control of the house in spite of getting fewer total nationwide votes, that will demonstrate a catastrophic moral failure of gerrymandering and a tyrranical offense against democracy. We already have the Senate to trample on democracy. The House is supposed to be pure and populist. I'm sick of seeing districts that pack urban blacks, Latinos, and college students into a 90% Democrat district so Republicans can win the surrounding six districts 55:45.

I believe only 1/3 of the house was up for reelection this year. I don't know the breakdown, but if most of those seats were in dem or rep strongholds, you'd expect them to be reelected. And incumbents usually win regardless, as people love THEIR representative but hate congress