Much of all this info regarding conspiracies is ambiguous. One can only speculate regarding the agenda behind conspiracies because it's all a secret of course. However, let's try to apply some common sense here.

All this conspiracy stuff is too black and white, almost like a religion. The elite can't be all "evil forces of darkness" vs. us the "innocent good guys". That is too black and white, with an "us vs. them" mentality, and more like what religions preach. In reality, the world is very complex and is not that black and white. There must be some good people among the elite. They can't all be "the bad guys" like characters in some movie, can they? People in real life are not all good or all bad (like in the movies); they are a mixture of the two.

It's also hard to believe that so many people could be in on something and agree to it. In reality, it's very hard to get a lot of people to all agree without dissent to being in on the same agenda, especially people in power and high places since these types are used to getting their way, not being told what to do. The elite have very big egos, so imagine how much harder it would be to get them to all agree on some secret agenda.

Humans tend to fight and disagree, especially since they are governed by an innate moral conscience which is both in their DNA and in the "morphic resonance" energy field (coined by Rupert Sheldrake) that all living things share. It's too far fetched to believe that these "shadow elite" are all some collective hive mind that is plotting sinister things against the world, as though they were all "minions of the dark side of the Force".

Nevertheless, conspiracies do exist in that powerful people do get together and make plans in secrecy. No one disputes that. The only question is: What kind of plans, secrets and conspiracies are they? Are we talking about mundane secrets - such as "under the table" deals and alliances, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" type of arrangements, and covert operations involving power and profits? Or are we talking about a secret Illuminati plan of world domination and microchipping the population under a New World Order global government? Is there a fantastic conspiracy involving UFO's, Aliens and secret technology? Or just politicians with mundane dirty secrets involving money laundering scams, under the table deals, arms deals, sex scandals, and other mundane types of unethical behaviors?

Even Zbigniew Brzezinski, one of the elite's long-time geostrategists, has admitted on public TV in an interview with Charlie Rose that "dirty secrets" and "under the table deals" exist among the elite, but denies that there is any "Illuminati NWO plot" to take over the world and instate a one world government. If there is a NWO plot though, then is every country in on it? Or just the US and UK elite and the Zionists behind them? It's too far fetched to believe that the governments of all 200 countries of the world would all agree to be in on something.

All we know for sure are:

- The media and government often lie and fabricate things.

- There is definitely a shadow government that works outside of the democratic process and public scrutiny, to implement big changes that the elite think tanks want that would take too long if the public were involved. The Iran Contra Scandal revealed that shadow governments do exist. This shadow government is involved in a lot of sinister operations, but for what purpose, we don't know.

- The US military industrial complex and elite class, or whoever runs the USA (it's certainly not the common people), are definitely war mongerers who have a history and pattern of starting ridiculous unnecessary wars that don't make sense. (e.g. Vietnam, Iraq, etc.)They do not tell the public the truth about why they start them, but only give BS copout excuses that don't add up. So we can only speculate and guess on their true motives. All we know for sure is that they love getting involved with wars for some reason. Whatever their true reasons are, they are likely to be very disturbing.

- Too many important figures who would have changed the world for the better had they lived, have been murdered by too many lone nut cases (e.g. JFK, RFK, MLK, John Lennon). Had JFK and RFK lived, the Vietnam War would probably have never happened, millions of lives would have been saved, people would trust their government more, and the CIA/Federal Reserve/Military Industrial Complex (which Eisenhower warned about) may not have hijacked the USA as it has today. So two lone nuts changed the tide of world history for the worse? Yeah right.

Also, if Ralph Nader didn't cost Al Gore the election in 2000, the Iraq War and War on Terror may have never happened, since Al Gore is not a war monger type, and millions of live may have been saved. (assuming of course, that the election was real and that Gore really wanted to win) I wonder how Ralph Nader sleeps at night, knowing that he could have prevented the Iraq War mess had he not stolen votes from Gore. How can one stupid act from one stupid man change the course of the world like that and destroy millions of lives? It's just too convenient.

- The formation of the European Union and attempt to create a North American Union as well, are indicators of a NWO plan, since the formation of these unions would be a logical step they would take in order to consolidate power into an eventual one world government.

However, the key unanswered questions are:

- What is the true agenda of the elite? Are they really seeking to establish a NWO and one world government and have the population microchipped? Or do they just enjoy mind-fucking everyone and reveling in the chaos they create and set up, which they derive a form of "dark ecstasy" from? (a theory proposed by conspiracy researcher and podcast host Jeff Grupp)

- What do they want? Is it just about power, control and profit? Don't they have enough of that? What more do they need? Do they have a more sinister and hidden motive?

- Are the elite of all countries involved in the NWO? Or is it just the US and UK?

- Could the whole NWO thing just be a diversion? Why else would they allow millions of videos about it on YouTube and millions of websites/forums about it to stay up? Is it all part of their plan to incite us into a revolution? And why would they let conspiracy leaders such as David Icke and Alex Jones spread conspiracy knowledge to so many disgruntled people and expose the plans of the elite? Icke travels the world doing public seminars to spread his message, yet nothing ever happens to him. Isn't that odd? Are they shills? Or is what they do part of the elite's plans? Or do the elite view them as too small of a problem to bother with, especially since anything that happens to a conspiracy leader will be interpreted as a "silencing act" by the elite?

- Even if a NWO or one world government succeeded, how long would it last? History has shown that Empires don't last long without public support. Not even Alexander the Great or Napoleon could hold an Empire together long term. Empires are easily toppled by a combination of many market forces. No elite group can stop that. The elite must know this. Any NWO would be short lived. So I gotta wonder what their real agenda is.

All of this is inconclusive and ambiguous. It's hard to say if there is a NWO plot or not, and if there is, what the plot is really about. The motives don't seem to make any sense.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Craig Browning wrote:Why do you insist on posting material that you know offends your regular posters? Why don't you respect their feelings let alone the FACTUAL details around this event?

Please, stop poking the dead horse. It makes you look ignorant.

What event? This thread isn't about 9/11. What are you talking about?

I just want to know the truth about all this. Are we all going to be microchipped or not?

Why are there hundreds of news clips where politicians and world leaders talk about a NWO? How do you explain them?

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Since I believe in a spiritual/metaphysical realm, here is another theory:

What if some of these lone nut assassinations were not carried out by shadow governments, but were carried out by spiritual entities? What if they were due to a conspiracy from the spiritual realm? For example, Mark David Chapman said that a voice in his head kept telling him to kill John Lennon. Could he have been used by forces from the spiritual realm, to eliminate key people that they needed to get out of the way who were threats to their agenda for humans?

For example, had JFK lived, the Vietnam War wouldn't have happened, and 60,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese would have been spared. How can one lone nut cause all that? It's just too convenient to buy that lone nuts kill people who would have prevented wars or did some good things (such as usurping the power of the Fed) that would have prevented us from being in the mess we're in.

Had Al Gore won in 2000, we may never have entered the Iraq War, since Gore is not a warmonger. Just because of that stupid guy Ralph Nader, everything F-ed up and went the wrong way off its natural course. How does Nader sleep at night, knowing that one million might be alive today if it wasn't for his stupid act of stealing votes from Gore? It's just too convenient that one stupid person can change everything or change the fate of millions of lives.

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Yes, there are those with covert plans or maybe we should say "their own designs" when it comes to life and the destiny of things; this is a constant but doubtfully part of some huge organization or even corruption amongst the excessively wealthy & influential. Most important, it's not a matter of extraterrestrial plotting, nor a part of the Free Masons agenda. So what we are left with are much smaller factions that may have seemingly high numbers when it comes to "like minded" people and even more than a few generations of support & perpetuation; a great example would be how the various ideas tied to the original NAZI Party have become woven into the American and British ways of life.

Just look at the time-line from a generational perspective and how easy the children and grandchildren of those NAZIs that got out of Germany/Europe by the end of the war, would be in the position of "tutor" to an unsettled and angry youth that resided in the very countries that "defeated" their ancestors -- foreparents. When you add in the antiquity of the KKK and it's venom towards Jews and all non-White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (and in many cases Non-American "native" born) and you have a far more pragmatic source for such plotting and conspiracies. We can add to this, minor groups that have hidden in full sight, such as the Vatican's "Security" network and the Spy networks of most any major nation, all of which can be corrupted in part. That is to say, small factions can break off from the actual purpose and create their own agenda which can sustain the many conspiracies that are out there. BUT, they are not an example of the greater whole and how it actually operates let alone the model it attempts to live UP to.

I fully agree that there is "More" to the picture and some very ugly subversive things are happening in this nation (especially) and in many other parts of the world. But it doesn't take a large group to make these things happen. . . as in a large number of conspirators. Rather, it's like the Green Beret mission of coming into an area and teaching the locals how to think, what to do and how. When painted properly and in a way that seem "patriotic" and even "humanitarian" the average person will simply accept it, drink the kool-aid and move on with the project, even defending it.

JFK, RFK and King were all orchestrated murders put out by the same group of money grubbing bastards within our government, I have no doubt on that in the least, in that there is no profit to be had when PEACE prevails and animosity is put to the side. Vietnam just as with Iraq & Afghanistan happened as a means of feeding the American Corporate side of the War Machine -- the scientists and weapons development groups that allow us to know the advanced cutting edge we know. . . that is being heavily thwarted by primitive actions and assets I might add. But there isn't big money for the big corporations that profit from war when we stop fighting the wars of our grandfathers and deal with how war is fought in the present. . . that's another issue that's rarely considered, but it's important.

What it comes down to is the LOVE OF MONEY which is the impetus of evil and seemingly "all evil" when we take a step back and look at the greater picture; money and position is where the real power exists and there will always be someone chasing after that particular brass ring. It has little to nothing to do with one big organization however and far more to do with human beings what they've learn to become -- predators. As the wild proves, you don't need a large number of predators though when it comes to suppressing the greater population.

Arouet wrote:Did every post on this forum suddenly go center text for you guys or is it just me?

It did for me also--and it's quite annoying I might add. 'Course most everything has been annoying me recently. Not sure why though. Mid-life crisis, maybe...

Yeah it did that last night when I switched to IE and went on this forum! I don't know why. I thought it was a problem with IE. But when I browse here with Firefox, it looks fine.

What about now? Is all the text still centered?

ProfWag, maybe you need to chill and go relax in nature and soothing music. lol

Maybe the universe is trying to annoy you to give you your karma. lol

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Here are some new paragraphs I just added to the OP. Anyone want to take a crack at these questions?

Nevertheless, conspiracies do exist in that powerful people do get together and make plans in secrecy. No one disputes that. The only question is: What kind of plans, secrets and conspiracies are they? Are we talking about mundane secrets - such as "under the table" deals and alliances, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" type of arrangements, and covert operations involving power and profits? Or are we talking about a secret Illuminati plan of world domination and microchipping the population under a New World Order global government? Is there a fantastic conspiracy involving UFO's, Aliens and secret technology? Or just politicians with mundane dirty secrets involving money laundering scams, under the table deals, arms deals, sex scandals, and other mundane types of unethical behaviors?

Even Zbigniew Brzezinski, one of the elite's long-time geostrategists, has admitted on public TV in an interview with Charlie Rose that "dirty secrets" and "under the table deals" exist among the elite, but denies that there is any "Illuminati NWO plot" to take over the world and instate a one world government. If there is a NWO plot though, then is every country in on it? Or just the US and UK elite and the Zionists behind them? It's too far fetched to believe that the governments of all 200 countries of the world would all agree to be in on something.

Could the whole NWO thing just be a diversion? Why else would they allow millions of videos about it on YouTube and millions of websites/forums about it to stay up? Is it all part of their plan to incite us into a revolution? And why would they let conspiracy leaders such as David Icke and Alex Jones spread conspiracy knowledge to so many disgruntled people and expose the plans of the elite? Icke travels the world doing public seminars to spread his message, yet nothing ever happens to him. Isn't that odd? Are they shills? Or is what they do part of the elite's plans? Or do the elite view them as too small of a problem to bother with, especially since anything that happens to a conspiracy leader will be interpreted as a "silencing act" by the elite?

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Do you think war is all about money though? Don't the elite have all the money in the world? They can print it and they have an unlimited supply for themselves. Alan Watt says that the real reason for war is so the elite can bring about global changes that would take too long or never during peace time, changes such as centralization of power, as what happened with the UN after WWII.

Couldn't it also be that the controllers of this world, whether human or extra-dimensional or extraterrestrial, simply thrive on conflict in this world rather than peace? Or perhaps they need to keep conflict going in this world, for some odd reason we can't understand, because we are some kind of SIMS experiment to them?

I think there's gotta be more to it all than just money. The elite have all the money they want, an unlimited supply of it.

Craig, do you really think they are trying to instate a global government like the one depicted in Star Trek? What about that theory that they are planning to microchip us all?

What about the kind of world depicted in "A Brave New World" and Orwell's "1984"? Do the elite want that too? Was Aldous Huxley one of them? If so, why would he leak their plans to us?

Why do you think they took out Lennon? Was it because they saw that he had the power to sway the entire nation against war, as he did with the Vietnam War, so they decided to take him out? Or was it their revenge for his role in turning the public against the Vietnam War?

Do you think lone nut assassins are under the mind control of MK-ULTRA, or patsies, or just actors who aren't even really in jail but set free to live somewhere hidden with a changed identity?

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Scepcop wrote:ProfWag, maybe you need to chill and go relax in nature and soothing music. lol

Maybe the universe is trying to annoy you to give you your karma. lol

Heeeyyyyy, didn't I tell YOU to do that more often?

I AM doing yoga and meditation now in an effort to relax more often when I'm around people who really annoy me.So Winston, next time you're in Arkansas, look me up and I'll take you to lunch!

Oh you're in Arkansas? Isn't that the hill billy Bible belt? lol No wonder why you are pro-war. Are you the kind of redneck that goes hunting with his dog tagging along, per the redneck stereotype? lol

Here are some soothing musical scores I love that really moves my heart and feelings, for you to listen to. They are by John Barry, who composed the masterpiece score for "Dances with Wolves".

Music score from "Born Free"

Music score from "Somewhere in Time"

Music score from "Out of Africa"

The Girl with Sun in Her Hair

Music score from "Dances with Wolves"

“Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.” - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged