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Rinehart's Ready for His Big Break (Updated)

It's "Rhino" time.

Coach Jim Zorn has not officially announced a replacement for injured right guard Randy Thomas, who will be placed on the season-ending injured reserve list because of a right triceps injury, but I've been told second-year guard Chad "Rhino" Rinehart is the guy.

Barring an injury or unforeseen developments, Rinehart, who was inactive in the first two games, will be in the starting lineup Sunday against the Detroit Lions at Ford Field. Rinehart took most of the first-team reps in the offseason while Thomas recovered from neck and knee surgeries.

Rinehart lost his confidence while playing tackle in the 2008 preseason, and the internal reviews on him were not good in the offseason. But Rinehart impressed after working exclusively at guard, coaches and players said, and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, is high on Rinehart, who says he is ready to roll after working closely with center Casey Rabach and right tackle Stephon Heyer in the preseason.

"It definitely helps mentally, you know?" Rinehart said. "Being with Casey and Stephon and just kind of getting the calls for what they do and how to help them out. It definitely just kind of changed my perspective, just knowing what I needed to work on going into the season after going through last season."

The Redskins had only seven offensive linemen active in the first two games - the five starters, tackle Mike Williams and guard-center Will Montgomery, who filled in for Thomas against the Rams.

Rinehart expected to be inactive in the first two games "just because I don't play center. And if we're only going to dress seven guys, I [don't] play any tackle, so they kind of had to pick Mike there. Having Will in there to play center, he fills in for the guards, too.

"They [the coaching staff] kind of explained we're only going to dress seven linemen when everyone's healthy, so it's just kind of the way it goes. If someone goes down, I just kind expected to start dressing after that. I'm just kind of taking the mental reps and just being ready to go; practicing hard and just paying attention."

Rinehart expects the regular season to be unlike anything he has experienced.
"It'll be a lot more intense in there," he said. "Just need to be a lot more focused going into the game. That way, I can execute the plays."

Rinehart has come a long way from the guy who failed badly in his brief tryout at tackle in the previous preseason. It's one thing for Cerrato, who drafted Rinehart, to say he has potential, but I've heard it from several other people as well.

Of course, let's see what the kid does in a "real" game. And, yes, playing the Lions on the road counts as a real NFL game.

"Obviously, not having played yet, my first will be basically what they'll go off of," Rinehart said. "I just need to go out there and show 'em I can" play.

()()()

Dan Steinberg reports on that second-half incident in which Danny Smith assisted with the calling of a timeout.

Roscoe Parrish is on the trade block again
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on September 21, 2009 2:40 PM ET
Drafted by the Mike Mularkey Bills in 2005, wide receiver Roscoe Parrish has had four different offensive coordinators during his tenure in Buffalo.

And none of them have known exactly what to do with him.

So with Parrish mostly riding the pine these days, the Bills have decided to see what they can get for him.

A league source tells PFT's Mike Florio that Parrish is on the trade block and he could be dealt as soon as the week.

Possible destinations include the Chiefs, Jaguars, and Redskins.

The Bills are rather short on the offensive line, but it seems more likely that Buffalo would be able to get a late-round draft pick in exchange for Parrish, who is under contract through 2011.

Parrish has no catches on the season as a wide receiver. He has one punt return for five yards.

Zorn's fight with Sonny is similar to me to last year's fight he had for like 4 weeks with Czab. Czab asked every week for 4 weeks why when defense is obviously the strength of the team and the offense was continually starting out every game ineffective and slowly why would JZ ever consider electing to kick the ball to start the game when he wins the toss and take the ball after halftime when the offense has gotten into the game.....Zorn's response "I just feel like we have a good defense and that if we can get that ball and go down in score right away we're in good shape"....Czab's come back "but this team has continually shown defense is its strength and offense has been slow starting what's wrong with kicking getting a 3 and out and starting your offense with good field position to try and help it"....Zorn "well sure that'd be great but I'd rather get the first points".....Czab "but we're not getting the first points we're getting 3 and outs and putting our defense on a short field to start".....Zorn "well obviously we don't want that but we are picking the strategy with that in mind"....czab exasperated silence end of interview....Zorn is stubborn and stupid,its a bad combo....

Holmgren, Shannahan and Cower... Not sure I want any of them. That would mean we continue to chase the past (in these cases, some other franchises past) instead of moving ahead.

If we're gonna make a big change at the end of the season - like everyone seems convinced will happen, then consider another scenario:

Perhaps we should be doing a better job finding a solid GM - pick the second in command at a franchise we admire, and let him find the right coach. That should be the GM's job anyway...

Gibbs 2.0 was not strong at GM duties (trading draft picks like they are playing cards instead of building through the draft, big $ for Brunell, Lloyd, etc...) Holmgren was also bad at it. Cower had a good GM and Shanny hasn't been impressive outside his lame division since Elway, so why we're chasing him eludes me.

If our new GM picks one of them (wow - did that sound GOOD "our new GM"...), then fine, but I don't see why we should give any of those guys the whole ball of wax when their past indicates they are not up to handling both.

Just read on the Redskins' site that Campbell's foot and ankle are swollen and this could leave him "limited" in practice this week. Maybe now is the time to put Collins in for a game. If he struggles, we might learn that it isn't the QB that is the problem, and if he lights it up...

I asked Zorn about the sequence today; here's his explanation, in full.

"He saw the 25-second clock and I didn't, because there was a pile," Zorn said. "Where I was, my vantage point, you can only go down so far. And so my vantage point, there were about four or five guys in front of the 25-second clock. He had looked at the other clock. And so we had time that we could take off the clock. He doesn't have a headset on, I do, I couldn't hear him. And you know how he gets going, 'YEEEEE-HUH!' You know, he just kind of got fired up about it, wanted to make sure. He saw me calling timeout, I didn't hear him, and so he came and got right in front of me. Because I was looking out onto the field."

ummmmm there's multiple play clocks......on field level and the scoreboards.....

If I was a HC, I want the ball to start second half every game, b/c I either want to protect lead by scoring more points and gobbling clock or if trailing I want to open with points and jump start the turn around. Nothing is easier than recovering from 7 down in the first half of the first quarter....

I asked Zorn about the sequence today; here's his explanation, in full.

"He saw the 25-second clock and I didn't, because there was a pile," Zorn said. "Where I was, my vantage point, you can only go down so far. And so my vantage point, there were about four or five guys in front of the 25-second clock. He had looked at the other clock. And so we had time that we could take off the clock. He doesn't have a headset on, I do, I couldn't hear him. And you know how he gets going, 'YEEEEE-HUH!' You know, he just kind of got fired up about it, wanted to make sure. He saw me calling timeout, I didn't hear him, and so he came and got right in front of me. Because I was looking out onto the field."

ummmmm there's multiple play clocks......on field level and the scoreboards.....

edvar,
Here is the question. We are in year 2 of what is secretly a 4-5 year rebuilding project to turn the team into a WC team by the current GM. If you bring in a new GM who is not a WC GM are you willing to wait another 5 years for the team to be a contender.

Agreed CL, unless I'm the Saints or a very offensive minded team like that I would always want to KO first. If I have a great offense and a crappy D I'd take the ball and try to get the lead to force the other team to play catch up and help my D, but other than that KO!

Sonny was a great passer,. When Sonny was 35 the Skins hired a coach who taught him how to read defenses and helped him understand the game at a different level. From that point forward, Sonny was an amazing QB. Injuries limited him a lot given his age, but his understanding of the game is incredible. The coach that taught him so much? Vince Lombardi.

Edvar's logic did work in Miami. Let's not forget the 1-15 Dolphins turned Conference Champion last season with the hiring of the Big Tuna (who eventually picked the new HC for Miami). We need a football guy making football decisions. Until then . . . we're screwed.

psp23, you're a stat guy. What say you about Boswell's column, particularly this passage:

The player at the heart of the problem is Campbell. He can march a team up and down the field reasonably well, as attested by his 84.2 career passer rating. And he is actually the second-best quarterback in NFL history at avoiding interceptions -- just 2.1 percent of his throws get picked off.

But through all 38 of his starts, the same ugly thread has run. He can't get his team across the goal line. Only six times in those 38 games has his offense scored even three touchdowns. And in his starts, the Redskins have averaged 1.72 touchdowns per game with their offense on the field...
One of the critical ways to measure an NFL quarterback is his percentage of touchdown passes. In all eras, from Sammy Baugh (6.2 percent of his passes were touchdowns) to the present, the great passers know how to finish a drive. A typical touchdown percentage for a star is between 4.5 percent and 6 percent. Below 4 percent is poor. Zorn himself, as well as ex-Redskins coach Steve Spurrier, were only at 3.5 percent.
Out of all the 219 passers in NFL history who have thrown at least 900 passes, Campbell ranks in a five-way tie for 201st at 3.1 percent. Only 14 quarterbacks, all nonentities, rank lower."

"We are in year 2 of what is secretly a 4-5 year rebuilding project to turn the team into a WC team by the current GM. If you bring in a new GM who is not a WC GM are you willing to wait another 5 years for the team to be a contender."

What have we done in the last two years to make us West Coast, besides draft a couple of big receivers - which you will need anyway in the NFC East? Seriously?

In the next two years, our O needs:
- One or two OT's
- Center
- Probably one Guard
- QB (probably)
- 2 running backs (at least, none of them should stay...)

D needs:
- Corners (2?)
- Middle LB
- DT (Griffen is wearing out)
- Strong side LB after we move Orakpo to DE
- Another DE (to replace Carter) who can actually rush the passer instead of pick up garbage sacks

So...we're gonna be doing some rebuilding anyway. Let's get someone who can pick put it together better than the Vinster.

alex35332, if you draft properly (ie. have a strong OL and DL) and never financially trap yourself into not being able to release players that under perform (ie. Portis, Jansen, Samuals) then it is just a matter of 1 or 2 off-seasons in order to put in the proper pieces and learn the system accordingly.

Note: I am not saying that portis or samuals are under performing...yet... but even if they were there is no way they can cut them due to the cap hit

the difference is that Sonny has the credibility that comes with being a HOF QB and Czabe is a schmuck.

Posted by: Original_etrod | September 21, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

That may be true, but back in the day Czabe was the only guy with the stones to call out St. Joe on the Brunel loyalty that was killing the team and it got him canned from Comcast. I don't love him but I agreed with him last year and I still do, we should never take the ball to start the game. Give our defense a chance to get a turnover or a short field for our crappy offense.

Big picture is that the Skins need to hire a real GM who then hires the coach. Is it any coincidence that Ozzie Newsome who has been the GM of the Ravens for over 10 years hired a guy who never was a coordinator but has worked out pretty well (Harbaugh)? The contrast between the Ravens franchise and the Redskins franchise is start. You'd like to think that Danny has observed the success of the Ravens over the last 10 years (a Super Bowl, multiple playoff appearances, only two head coaches, and one GM) and seen that their model of building through the draft works pretty well.

Instead the Skins rely on a trying to buy the hottest thing on the market regardless of the price and trade draft picks as if they have little or no value. Players are grossly overpaid and the team then absorbs major salary cap hits to release non-productive players. The same will happen next offseason when players like R. Thomas, Griffin, and possibly Samuels are let go.

And did I see people calling out Laron Landry??? He’s the free safety. So far the longest pass the defense has given up was the 5 yarder Manning threw which turned into a 30yd touchdown run after catch. He broke up a pass which Hall picked off, and the Rams didn’t even try to go deep on them until their last play, in which Horton had the coverage. What’s wrong with Landry’s game????

RE: Zcezcest, Thanks, I made a few mistakes in my linup that would have got me the W.
Re: Dik, I love Zoron!

RE: edvar,

I figure it takes roughly 5 years to cycle out an entire roster of players from an old system to a new system, if you are willing to do it via a blow up, than its high risk and either takes less time or you end up like Oakland and being irrelevant for the better part of 10 seasons.

I don't like Vinny, but I get what is going on, we are playing a west coast offense with a smash mouth roster. Some guys are working out some are not.

learnedhand1,
Great info. It kind of makes sense that Campbell would be less effective in the red zone. He has trouble finding an open man, and near the red zone, where the field gets shorter, everything kind of compresses. Still, Sellers should have given him one touchdown reception, and we can debate whether DT should have caught the other one. Can't hang those on Campbell.

NFeKPo,
It depends on the team or the contracts, I am thinking along the lines of what the skins roster, a team with a lot of long contracts with out many people you can cut without hitting the cap hard.

But most teams I stand by a 4-5 year mark in completely turning over a roster and installing a new system.

learnedhand1,
Great info. It kind of makes sense that Campbell would be less effective in the red zone. He has trouble finding an open man, and near the red zone, where the field gets shorter, everything kind of compresses. Still, Sellers should have given him one touchdown reception, and we can debate whether DT should have caught the other one. Can't hang those on Campbell.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 21, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

JC17, if anything, is a master of making the "safe throw" on a checkdown: finding Cooley/ARE over the middle after DBs vacate, finding RBs in the flat, or finding WRs coming back on their routes after JC gets flushed from the pocket.

When the field is compressed in the redzone, there is no "safe" checkdown.

Have I lost it or does anyone else just wish we had hired Gregg Williams, canned weird al and brought in a young and hungry 0-cord. That way we could have sustained the continuity we needed from Gibbs 2.0, while ushering in some needed changes.

Skins took the ball in the 4th quarter with 9:15 left and drained the clock 7:20 to give the ball to the Rams on the 4yrd line with 1:55 left. True we didnt score points but killing the clock that much can be just as effective. I say we need to give props to the offense. Coming up with a big drive when they needed it to get that clock gone.

RE: Zcezcest, Thanks, I made a few mistakes in my linup that would have got me the W.

Posted by: alex35332

I think you played the right guys. Sometimes the right guys don't deliver. Greg Jennings (shockingly) got shut out for me, but Buckhalter netted 17 on my bench. Who thought the Titans defense would suck but the Bills d would be great? Maybe Winslow over Bruce, but Bruce vs Sea, that coulda easily worked out.

fwiw, I have the Lynch/Jackson combo on my other team. Great minds ...

Agreed CL, about Gregg Williams and a hungry OC - but, what continuity from the Gibbs era are you referring to? The one thing that struck me today after yesterday's debacle, is that this team has had the same basic problem for the past decade.

Just better than average talent, playing down to their opponent's level, with no consistent team identity. A decade worth of it, regardless of the coach

Have I lost it or does anyone else just wish we had hired Gregg Williams, canned weird al and brought in a young and hungry 0-cord. That way we could have sustained the continuity we needed from Gibbs 2.0, while ushering in some needed changes.

Why does Florio mention Washington as a possible trade partner for this WR? It can't be based in reality, me thinks that all trade rumors across the League have "Redskins" as an auto default script entry.

Have I lost it or does anyone else just wish we had hired Gregg Williams, canned weird al and brought in a young and hungry 0-cord. That way we could have sustained the continuity we needed from Gibbs 2.0, while ushering in some needed changes.

I know kooky right?

Posted by: chrislarry | September 21, 2009 3:37 PM

Makes perfect sense with hindsight. Shoot, with hindsight ABZ: Anybody But Zorn. And, I would much rather have had Russ Grimm.

Its all about getting a set philosophy on both sides of the ball and finding guys who buy into it. I don't see a "Need" a CB or DE, figure out what we have first. I say stick with JC still, until we have all other 10 spots on the Offense figured out, may as well keep someone who is consistent and can manage the game, not to mention he does better every year. But don't worry about getting a QB until you can get a line and 2-3 starting receivers.

I would not put "probably" next to QB... I've seen enough and it's a must. I want the Skins to get one of the top passers in next year's draft.

For me, the top priorities for 2010 are the OT's, QB, CB, OLB, and PK. The rest in 2011.

Posted by: chasgiffen | September 21, 2009 3:39 PM

Yeah. Right.

...as they did in 94 (Heath Shuler)
...as they did in 02 (Patrick Ramsey)
...as they did in 05 (Jason Campbell)

Don't hold your breath waiting for some HOF QB to appear in the draft and turn the offense around. The problem is more than knee-jerk blaming of QB play. Campbell is one the best all-around QBs we've had in the past 15 year (possible exception of Brad Johnson).

The plays have to be called better. The receivers have to catch the ball when it's there. And they have to hold onto it after they catch it.

"But most teams I stand by a 4-5 year mark in completely turning over a roster and installing a new system. "- alex

My point was that whether you run the WC or smash mouth run game you are going to need solid OL men and the same goes for defense in a 4-3 or 3-4 you need strong capable DL. Yes they are different skill sets but you don't need to completely over haul the lines.

You switch RB to get speed/pass catching RB vs. a bruiser or a QB with a big arm to one that is more accurate with a quicker release. Those are the changes that a new GM makes.

Your 4-5 year mark is correct though for the Skins because we are completely unorganized and had no direction for the past decade. It will take 5 years to clean up this mess.

Out of all the 219 passers in NFL history who have thrown at least 900 passes, Campbell ranks in a five-way tie for 201st at 3.1 percent. Only 14 quarterbacks, all nonentities, rank lower."

Posted by: learnedhand1 | September 21, 2009 3:23 PM

These stats say nothing about red zone TD passes, so I'm not sure where most people are inferring that JC has issues throwing red zone TDs from what was posted. LH does the article break out red sone %? The info presented is not surprising because the offenses here in general have struggled to score TDs for the last decade.

Well of course Grimm is my eternal #1 choice that goes without saying.

John in Houston, I think you could have made a strong case that Gibbs 2.0 did create a strong team concept and that they were building in the kind of incremental ways that show year to year progress....I think Man Boobs could have built on that with the needed tweaks on offense. Could have brought in a young OC from Coryel/vermiel/gibbs tree that wouldn't have been a huge movement away from weird Al but without the sillyness....

"psp23, you're a stat guy. What say you about Boswell's column, particularly this passage:"

Yea, I saw that. It's an interesting stat, no doubt, and doesn't bode well. But that stat must be taken in context relative to the amount of times he's asked to make a play in the red zone.

So far this season, Campbell has had 8 pass attempts in the red zone. One was a TD.

Eli Manning also has 8 attempts in the red zone. Zero were TDs.

Last season, Eli Manning had 87 attempts in the red zone. 17 were TDs. That's a TD every 5.12 attempts.

Last season, Campbell had 63 attempts in the red zone. 11 were TDs. That's a TD every 5.73 attempts.

In 2007, when Todd Collins was brilliantly running Saunders' offense, he had 13 attempts in the red zone, with 1 TD.

For contrast's sake, Drew Brees has had 16 attempts so far this season, with 6 TDs in the red zone. Obviously, that's a phenomenal percentage.

One of the things that's been missing from Campbell, and the Redskins in general, is the lack of big plays. This has been a constant theme since the 2005 season ended. The skins run a ball-control offense throughout, then largely lean on the running game to punch it in once we hit the red zone. This is how the skins have operated under Zorn, and even under Saunders and Gibbs, regardless of who was under center.

Yes, he has low numbers in that regard, but it's not low efficiency numbers, particularly in the red zone. Where his numbers are taking a hit are in the big play department. This is something we were all hoping would take a jump this season. So far, it hasn't occurred.

Your 4-5 year mark is correct though for the Skins because we are completely unorganized and had no direction for the past decade. It will take 5 years to clean up this mess.
Posted by: NFeKPo | September 21, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Funny enough if we stuck with the Gibbs system we would be in a lot better shape right now IMHO. We did have direction for those 4 seasons, but it was just kind of lackluster.

Alan4,
I agree with you. Another thing to consider is you don't want a Lamborghini QB sitting behind a Yugo offensive line. They should have gotten their left tackle in the last draft; however, they didn't, so next year is the year they start grooming Samuels' replacement, and in the lower rounds they need to think about CP's replacement.

I hope Chad Rinehart is ready, I truly hope so. If he stinks it up, Reliable Vinny and Danny boy's draft day decisions will come under even more fire. We haven't drafted an offensive lineman in the 1st round since 2000. No wonder our line isn't as dominant as the Giants. In next year’s draft we need to draft offensive lineman with our 1st and 2nd round picks. But we know that won’t happen. Offensive Lineman don’t sell tickets or merchandise, but they can have you still playin’ ball in January. I can’t believe these knuckleheads still haven’t figured out in 10 years that we need to have quality defensive and offensive lineman. But again they don’t sell t-shirts and merchandise.

And I am not saying he is Tom Brady, or mr perfect, but he is good enough where if you build a good team around him you will win with some regularity.

Posted by: alex35332

I agree, I still like JC. When you give him as much time as any of the top QBs in the league, he makes the throw.

Just look at Cutler now without his precious Denver o-line. It makes a HUGE difference and you can tell how good a QB can be when he gets the amount of protection he's supposed to get from a good line.

Funny enough if we stuck with the Gibbs system we would be in a lot better shape right now IMHO. We did have direction for those 4 seasons, but it was just kind of lackluster.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 21, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Apparently you forgot how it was time for him to go. Or you werent on the blog then.
People were ripping Gibbs for his lackluster offense and how proud he was of the guys and how they are "Super Smart".

SkinsneedaGM,
You forgot to mention JC's decision making. Coach Zorn says he makes great decisions. For instance, when Zorn called that HB option play, Campbell could have called a timeout and discussed it with his coach, but instead Campbell went ahead and ran the play even though the defense was clearly looking for it. That's good decision making there, yes sirree. He's doing just what he was coached to do...

cough, cough... the cynic alarm just went off on my computer... must exit...

" Apparently you forgot how it was time for him to go. Or you werent on the blog then.
People were ripping Gibbs for his lackluster offense and how proud he was of the guys and how they are "Super Smart".

Sonny will show respect to Zorn when he earns it. Sonny is HOF.. Zorn needs to buy a ticket to visit the Hall.
Not sure what your Campbell "respect" reference is to?? I dont believe Sonny dissed Campbell??
+++++++++++++++++++++

when we get in the redzone it should be portis and cooley until further notice.

Sonny should shut his face, he loved it when Frerotte did the kneel down give zorn and Campbell the same respect.

From the Times, regarding Rock, if we're phasing him out, then lets cut him loose, and be done with it. DT/LB can handle KOR, until Mason is ready.

Here are some loose items that didn't make the paper this morning:

* Rock Cartwright's phasing out continues. On one kickoff return, the deep men were Devin Thomas and Ladell Betts.

Cartwright took the high road afterward.

"I don't make the calls. I just work here," he said. "I kind of knew it was coming."

* Defensive end Phillip Daniels pointed to improved assignments and tackling as the reason the Redskins didn't allow as many big runs as they did against the Giants.

"Guys stayed where they were supposed to be," he said. "We have to continue to do the little things and trust the man next to you."

* The roughing the passer penalty in the first quarter was on DT Kedric Golston for making contact with Marc Bulger's helmet.

I'm pretty sure the official got two things wrong when announcing the penalty -- he said No. 90 (Jeremy Jarmon wasn't on the field) and when replays showed No. 98 (Brian Orakpo involved in the hit), we assumed it was Orakpo getting called. After further review, it was Golston.

* London Fletcher led the Redskins with nine tackles, down from 18 he made against the Giants.

"[Monday] should be a lot better for me getting out bed," he said. "It’ll be a lot better getting around. The defensive line did a great job making plays in the run game and [Chris] Horton made plays and Rocky McIntosh was all over the field."

* NFL rankings: Offense is 18th in yards, (17th in rushing, 18th in passing) and tied for 29th in points. Only Cleveland and St. Louis have scored fewer points. The defense is 12th in yards (18th in rushing, tied for 10th in passing) and eighth in points allowed. The Redskins' defense is 28th in third down efficiency. Special teams -- The coverage teams are seventh (punts) and second (kickoffs). The return teams are tied for 14th (punts) and 18th (kickoffs).

Apparently you forgot how it was time for him to go. Or you werent on the blog then.
People were ripping Gibbs for his lackluster offense and how proud he was of the guys and how they are "Super Smart".

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 21, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I was here I am one of the 2nd group to hop onto the blog. I am not saying sticking with Joe, but his "system".

when we get in the redzone it should be portis and cooley until further notice.

Posted by: pabrian2003
======

I'm hesitant to call #26 in the red zone at all anymore. I love the guy, but opposing teams know we're only going to run him to the left, and they'll be there. They will force us to put it in the air, so we have to learn how.

The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over.

What's the difference between hiring a quarterback coach for head coach or replacing the starting quarterback with a 3rd stringer with no experience? Nothing. Both made good first impressions.

How about firing a guy at 7-6 or firing a guy at 1-1? Not much. Zorn won 9-7 over the Rams. Norv lost 9-7 to Giants. Norv could have salvaged his season; Zorn might. But if you listen to the fans, the Redskins should’ve never dressed against the Giants and there is no bother for the rest of the year because all is lost. Yipee, now we can focus on the draft and get things fixed.

What about firing a guy for going 8-8 for coaching ugly football? The current guy is 9-9 with just as ugly football and a sizable percentage of fans want him gone this minute.

The point is the fans that bash the owner for these decisions are just as culpable as the one they hate. If they were in his position they would pull the string. They are just guilty as the owner that the home team has no home field advantage. The owner with his unending pursuit of green; the fans for their need to boo and rip the very team they profess to love. Ever since Mark Brunell’s arm fell off at the shoulder, FedEx field has been a place for fans to ejaculate their displeasure. Fans are no longer Redskin fans but fans of they’re own version of ‘how to fix the Redskins.’ The only difference between them and Snyder is a few hundred million dollars.

As for Robert Henson, he might not deserve to be a Redskin, who knows he might deserve better.

"Not since Mark Rypien have the Redskins had a quarterback who kept the undisputed starting job for more than a couple of seasons. Since buying the team in 1999, Snyder has targeted the position twice in the first round, taking Patrick Ramsey in 2002 and Jason Campbell in 2005. Lower-round selections Todd Husak (2000), Sage Rosenfels (2001), Gibran Hamdan (2003) and Jordan Palmer (2007) failed to establish themselves even as backups. Colt Brennan (2008) spent his first season playing third string."

Roscoe Parrish? Heck, sign some speedy running back off a developmental roster so they can have a legitimate change of pace back. BTW, the team will have a roster spot open now that Randy Thomas is on IR. Maybe they will sign a kick returner...

The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over.

The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over.

This just in: Roger Goodell has ruled that the Redskins / Rams game shall be recorded as a "tie". According to the comissioner, the Skins just didn't win "convincingly enough". He went on to say:

"The play calling was just so bad, I don't think the skins really deserve a win. It's obvious their season will be a disaster, so I'm really just trying to help them out with a better draft pick"

When asked about the rest of the season, Goodell said: "I'm in negotiations with the Skins as well as the Lions to have them potentially forfeit the rest of their games this season. We can reshuffle the remaining NFL teams and create some match ups that viewers are interested in."

"The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over."

In the past, Redskin fans had a winning team with a functional front office. Perhaps the last decade of incompetence has made us a bit short tempered...

The Redskins have a tendency to play to the strength of their opponents. For years now, sometime around midseason, you start hearing players admonish one another about "playing to win" and saying "we can't play not to lose."

If Horton gets flagged for interference and the Rams have 1st and 10 on our 45 yard line with 1:30 to play - you're praying the Skins don't lose. And they barely didn't.

The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over.

Posted by: bangkokben | September 21, 2009 4:15 PM

Now this hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | September 21, 2009 4:19 PM

Amen!

Posted by: Alan4

You guys are priceless. This guy just called you "unsophisticated" morons and you're sitting there saying, "yes, brother". I've got news for you Bangkokben, I would trade Snyder, Vinny and Zorn, but I wouldn't trade the fans for anything. If you are a Redskins fan of longstanding you have to be one of the toughest, most loyal people on the face of the planet. Why else would you defend your team to fans of other teams despite evidence that disputes the logic in that, and why else would you root for a team week in and week out that, retrospectively, has made some splashy but horrible personnel decisions in the past? I question what team you root for, Bangkokben, because you want to put down the best thing about Redskins football: the fans.

When asked about the rest of the season, Goodell said: "I'm in negotiations with the Skins as well as the Lions to have them potentially forfeit the rest of their games this season. We can reshuffle the remaining NFL teams and create some match ups that viewers are interested in."

Posted by: REXskins | September 21, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Can't wait to see the announcing team that Fox assigns to this dog. Probably guys like Sam Rosen, Ron Pitts, Brian Baldinger or Bill Maas or others of their ilk (shudder). Maybe I'll watch it with the sound turned down. Along with others, I'm sure, among the whopping 2% of the country to whom this game will probably be broadcast.

In the past, Redskin fans had a winning team with a functional front office. Perhaps the last decade of incompetence has made us a bit short tempered...

Posted by: edvar | September 21, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

My personal opinion is that we expect more out of a storied franchise like the Redskins. We expect Solid coaching, sound Defense and an innovative Offense. Each year we are like the proverbial horse and carrot. Danny ties the carrot to the end of the stick jumps on the fans(horse) and leads us to his bottom line GP goal of the year. Once we get to that line he hops off and eats the carrot.

His best season ever:
1967 Redskins (14 games)
288 out of 508
3,747 yds. 31 TDs 16 INTs, 87.3 rating
team record that season: 5-6-3

Yeah, I'm going with Sonny.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 21, 2009 3:16 PM | Report ab
funny you'd take sonny's best stat year where he led his team to a 5-6-3 record over zorn's 9-7 best season that prolly meant playoffs. some of us fans are just idiots.

"You do realize, however, that Peyton is the standard setter in the Manning family.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

My contention has always been that JC is good enough to win, win consistently, and win a SB when the team is built properly. If he can compare to Eli, that's more than enough. Peyton Mannings come around once or twice in a generation. I'm of the persuasion that it is not smart management, in any sense, to give up an Eli-caliber QB (and presumably multiple other assets) in the futile search for the next Peyton.

That said, JC still has some movement to go before he proves he's on Eli's level, but the signs are there.

A large group has become like the owner. They have taken on his personality. Instead of building quality, we settle for fantasy football and hope we can plug and play players or buy a Championship.

I dont believe he meant all, but there is a growing contingent of fans displaying characteristics of the owner. That we can somehow just plug people in and we will go tot he big show. That doesnt happen in football, you cant buy a championship.

Dude, you're the reason us old school fans hate being around you. You complain like your little sister on the rag about the qb and the coach but if the fb and 4th wr don't drop passes and the #1 pick dosen't fling the opposing qb on the ground that game is over in the first 20 minutes. AND i DON'T HAVE TO READ YOUR B!TCHING!

"If Horton gets flagged for interference and the Rams have 1st and 10 on our 45 yard line with 1:30 to play - you're praying the Skins don't lose. And they barely didn't.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins"

If you're playing in hypotheticals, then if the Redskins recover their onside kick, the Skins have the ball on our 45 with 1:40 left to play, and the Giants are praying they don't lose. And they barely didn't.

The opening drive, which started when Campbell underthrew Kelly on a deep ball. It was a good pass where a very good pass was needed. Another 6-12 inches on that throw and we probably have a TD. A 1 yard run was followed by an 8 yard pass, with Kelly unable to get the first down despite a good effort.

The other bad drive came with the Skins starting at their own 6. After losing a yard on 1st down run, Campbell got sacked on 2nd down, but had the presence of mind to avoid the safety. A short run on 3rd down led to a punt.

The other 5 drives all saw the ball move well until we got inside the 10 or, in one case, Moss's fumble.

And did I see people calling out Laron Landry??? He’s the free safety. So far the longest pass the defense has given up was the 5 yarder Manning threw which turned into a 30yd touchdown run after catch. He broke up a pass which Hall picked off, and the Rams didn’t even try to go deep on them until their last play, in which Horton had the coverage. What’s wrong with Landry’s game????

Posted by: dlhaze1 | September 21, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

some fans just want the numbers to tell them it was a good game that way they don't have to pay attention and can check their fantasy football, twitter, and match.com pages. it's pathetic to hear some people who've never played a down of organized football give "analysis" of football at it's highest level. if the 2 drops are caught we have the smae score as the jints did last week when they "handled us" last week. by the way the jints almost doubled that against a cowboys team that everyone thinks is better than us .

This just in: Roger Goodell has ruled that the Redskins / Rams game shall be recorded as a "tie". According to the comissioner, the Skins just didn't win "convincingly enough". He went on to say:

"The play calling was just so bad, I don't think the skins really deserve a win. It's obvious their season will be a disaster, so I'm really just trying to help them out with a better draft pick"

When asked about the rest of the season, Goodell said: "I'm in negotiations with the Skins as well as the Lions to have them potentially forfeit the rest of their games this season. We can reshuffle the remaining NFL teams and create some match ups that viewers are interested in."

Posted by: REXskins | September 21, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

LOL, the truth is though it could have been, it sure looked like a safety to me when JC got sacked on 1/2 centimeter line. Fortunately (unlike the Moss fumble when I'm screaming at the TV to get to the line and snap the ball) they snapped the ball quickly and avoided that review, I watched it 4 times on DVR his knee was down a yard deep before he fumbled. we got lucky on that one although I guess game tied Zorn would have done what he should have done anyway and kicked the field goal.

anybody see the facemask on the moss fumble, or the illegal contact/ defensive holding on the campbell throw out the back of the end zone called uncatchable. i guess it was uncatchable b/c of the throw, but isn't there illegal contace outside of 5 yds. bartell was giving randle el the Chris Brown

anybody see the facemask on the moss fumble, or the illegal contact/ defensive holding on the campbell throw out the back of the end zone called uncatchable. i guess it was uncatchable b/c of the throw, but isn't there illegal contace outside of 5 yds. bartell was giving randle el the Chris Brown

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 21, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

The facemask on Moss was something that I was wondering aloud about.

It was clear that one of the tacklers grabbed a piece of Moss's facemask and yanked it back right as the other guy was stripping the ball.

What is the rule?

If they are gonna review a change of possession play, can they review whether a penalty was involved as well?

anybody see the facemask on the moss fumble, or the illegal contact/ defensive holding on the campbell throw out the back of the end zone called uncatchable. i guess it was uncatchable b/c of the throw, but isn't there illegal contace outside of 5 yds. bartell was giving randle el the Chris Brown

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 21, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

We could also talk about the roughing the passer called on the skins. I thought the refs were pretty bad yesterday. Most borderline calls were going in the Rams direction.

And I am not saying he is Tom Brady, or mr perfect, but he is good enough where if you build a good team around him you will win with some regularity.

Posted by: alex35332
_________________________

Alex, yes I definitely agree this team can win with just a reasonably good O (because of its great D, despite the secondary's problems thus far), and for me that does start with O-line competence, and does require at least competence at WR, RB, etc.

Alan4 makes the obvious points above that [1] it's hard to find a very good to excellent QB (but who's asking for a HOF'er?) and that [2] football success depends on many factors. So his conclusion is what? Quit trying and be happy with mediocrity at QB? (Of course he's also saying JC is very good - which I totally disagree with - and that's really why he was upset with my post, which actually addressed several needed upgrades as discussed by Edvar.)

No, you keep searching, you keep trying, you keep taking your shots (and other failed shots by the Redskins are irrelevant, for the same reason – not to mention “even a blind dog will find a bone every now & then”). All I'm saying is JC is average at best, a “C” rating, given all factors (including poor clock speed, pocket awareness/movement, poor speed from decision to pass release, etc) and we need to keep trying to upgrade at QB, to get in the very good to excellent range (there's several QB's in the league that fall into this category and I’m not including Brady and Manning).

Having said all that, in terms of upgrades, I want O-line strength before anything else. But I think we can get that plus a very strong QB prospect in next year’s draft, and handle the other top-most needs via FA.

I commented on the facemask in real time yesterday; PDiddy replied that the facemask was not reviewable as part of the play.
I defer to his expertise on the subject (although, now that I think about it, I'm assuming a lot of expertise from a pretty-much anonymous commenter on a public blog site).

The players are not the problem, including the QB. Especially including the QB. JC played his guts out yesterday, he made excellent reads and checks, hit on some big plays, shucked and jived to make a few plays, and had two TD's dropped. Players not making makable plays is a PART of the problem. See two TDs dropped and Moss fumble.

First and goal from the 2 is a lot different than first and goal from the 8. There have been numerous occasions of first and goal from the 8 this year for whatever reason.

The crux of the biscuit is the play calling from first and goal OUTSIDE the 5. Zorn refuses to run play action on first down, a draw, AND especially refuses to ALLOW his QB and WR to make plays for him until its too late in the series.

He also hamstrings JC's ability to check out of plays near the goal line.... see his response to Sonny. The whole team KNEW that the run left wasn't the right play, but they ran it anyway because JZ refuses to allow them to make a change if the opponent over loads the side they play to run. Begs the questions: How did the Rams magically know to overload left??? Maybe they watched his other ten calls in the same spot, LOL.

I really can't imagine the thought running rampant in the Redskins huddle was "Sweet, its 3rd and Goal and CP is gonna throw the ball!! They will never expect that and its gonna work!"

Would have loved to see a shot of JC walking by JZ saying "great call Coach" as he slammed his helmet 5 yards towards the bench.

Just like I loved seeing JC actually bark at Heyer after he whiffed on his guy forcing JC to step up into an awaiting sack.

The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over.

funk, i know that the call can't be reviewed, or changed because of review. it was kinda one of those flukey things i think where the ref saw the "incidental" grab of the helmet, but held his flag because nothing really came of it (no harm no foul) i think it was the replay booth that had to review it b/c it was within 2 mins. otherwise i dunno if ST. Louis even thought it was a fumble. i think the line judge out thought himself on the randle el play. he threw the flag, but then ran over to the head ref and said no flag it was uncatchable. he totally ignored the fact that the ball wasn't thrown yet and bartell was holdin randle el.

"The worst thing about a being a Redskins fan is the company we keep. In the past 'skins fans were 'sophisticated' - even had a clue about football. Now they all have the mentality of the owner they despise. Fire/replace and start over."

We've had a championship level defense 4 of the past 5 years, and look like we could have one again this season. For that entire time the offense has been putrid. If pointing that out makes one unsophisticated, so be it!

Anyone know the breakout of run plays yesterday? What can we do to decrease predictability given the known RT side run block problems? Portis seems to run that stretch play well. What about delayed draws to the right? Two back sets with Sellars and Cooley on that side to block?

Also, I really believe Marko can help us in the red zone. Even if he is not the intended receiver, it's one more threat to defend.

A large group has become like the owner. They have taken on his personality. Instead of building quality, we settle for fantasy football and hope we can plug and play players or buy a Championship.

I dont believe he meant all, but there is a growing contingent of fans displaying characteristics of the owner. That we can somehow just plug people in and we will go tot he big show. That doesnt happen in football, you cant buy a championship.
___________________________________________

I think almost any Redskins fan, even the ones that currently are saying "fire X replace with Y", would gladly settle for 2-3 more years of patient losing if we had a legitimate GM headlining a legitimate rebuilding project. By far this would be the ideal situation for everyone.

However, considering the owner has shown no inclination to ever do that, most fans are only adopting the owner's mentality, because they know this is the best we can expect until short round sells the team or dies. Replace players with free agents, throw something against the wall, hope it sticks is all the owner is going to do and all that Skins fans can hope will make the team better

funk, i know that the call can't be reviewed, or changed because of review. it was kinda one of those flukey things i think where the ref saw the "incidental" grab of the helmet, but held his flag because nothing really came of it (no harm no foul) i think it was the replay booth that had to review it b/c it was within 2 mins. otherwise i dunno if ST. Louis even thought it was a fumble. i think the line judge out thought himself on the randle el play. he threw the flag, but then ran over to the head ref and said no flag it was uncatchable. he totally ignored the fact that the ball wasn't thrown yet and bartell was holdin randle el.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 21, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

I didn't think the Moss facemask was reviewable, but that's the kind of thing the league should examine. If a potential penlaty that was not called is integral to the change of possession, they can't jsut leave it alone.

On the ARE non-call, I thought that was frustrating. It seemed like JC basically threw the ball away BECAUSE Bartell was all over ARE.

One of the heads up plays I saw during the game came in the 4th quarter. It was the play before the first 4th-and-1 go-for-it call. 3rd and 5, and ARE was in the slot to the right of Campbell. #21, Atogwe, was lined up across from ARE, but he must have done something to tip his hand because ARE started frantically trying to get JCs attention before the snap. JC gave ARE a little nod. It was pretty obvious from where I was sitting that ARE was trying to let JC know that Atogwe was coming on a CB blitz.

So, sure enough, ball was snapped and in came Atogwe. JC did the smart thing and immediately got rid of the ball, hitting ARE 1 yard off of the line of scrimmage. Of course ARE came up a yard short, but its plays like that which I think make football so interesting to watch. Plus, it was a nice play between ARE and JC and showed nice recognition and communication between them

Can't wait to see the announcing team that Fox assigns to this dog. Probably guys like Sam Rosen, Ron Pitts, Brian Baldinger or Bill Maas or others of their ilk (shudder). Maybe I'll watch it with the sound turned down. Along with others, I'm sure, among the whopping 2% of the country to whom this game will probably be broadcast.

Posted by: rbpalmer | September 21, 2009 4:36 PM

This just in, FOX cant find any announcers for the game on Sunday so the FOX robot will be calling the game inbetween his break dancing for commercials. Asked about this promotion and this is what the robot had to say

ROBOT: I just want to say I have waited for this day for a long time, I would like to thank all the robots that came before me that made this possible, robots like the Tin man, R2D2, the robot from Short Circuit, and so many more.

Washington 9, St. Louis 7
The Redskins avenged their embarrassing two-point loss to the Rams last season with an almost equally embarrassing two-point victory this season.

Washington went 0 for 5 in the red zone, settling for three field goals against a team so bad that they’d probably lose to the Lions. (But we’ll find out on Nov. 1, when the 0-7 Rams face the 0-7 Lions in Detroit. Can't wait!)

The Week 2 victory marked the first time in four years that the Redskins scored fewer than 10 points and still won the game.

The game was not without something that almost passed for a highlight for St. Louis:

Marc Bulger set the franchise record for pass completions, surpassing Jim Everett’s mark of 1,847. Bulger has now completed 1,861 passes in a Rams uniform – and has a 40-49 career record to show for it. The Rams also actually scored some points – they were last team in the NFL this year to finally register on the scoreboard.

The Rams have now lost 12 straight games, the second longest streak in the NFL. It's quite possible that, when the Rams play the Lions on Nov. 1, the two clubs will be sporting streaks of 17 and 23 consecutive losses, respectively.
- BS

We were a little better vs the giants and a little better vs the rams. If we can be a little better every week we can make the playoffs.

We won ok, you can't win 9-7 without playing incredibly disciplined football and outstanding defense. I know the cheerleaders don't understand how you can win without any long TDs, but real fans are loving it.

On the ARE non-call, I thought that was frustrating. It seemed like JC basically threw the ball away BECAUSE Bartell was all over ARE.

Posted by: p1funk | September 21, 2009 5:11 PM | Report ab
how many 3rd and eternity situations have the skins had killed b/c of defensive holding or illegal contact? it seems like it happens to us at least once every coupla games. until recently that was carlos 22s claim to fame. he'd always bail some team out of a 3rd and "they're not gonna get it " . it was really upsetting that the missed that one because i think JC was throwing it away, but in the direction of the reciever who was obviously being held.

When you play Madden or NCAA, this is always the case. It should apply to real games too.

But sometimes coaches have 10-15 scripted plays they wanna run and having the ball first helps. But when you go 3 and out on your first posession of the game, like the Skins did yesterday, it doesn't matter.

Washington 9, St. Louis 7
The Redskins avenged their embarrassing two-point loss to the Rams last season with an almost equally embarrassing two-point victory this season.

Washington went 0 for 5 in the red zone, settling for three field goals against a team so bad that they’d probably lose to the Lions. (But we’ll find out on Nov. 1, when the 0-7 Rams face the 0-7 Lions in Detroit. Can't wait!)

The Week 2 victory marked the first time in four years that the Redskins scored fewer than 10 points and still won the game.

The game was not without something that almost passed for a highlight for St. Louis:

Marc Bulger set the franchise record for pass completions, surpassing Jim Everett’s mark of 1,847. Bulger has now completed 1,861 passes in a Rams uniform – and has a 40-49 career record to show for it. The Rams also actually scored some points – they were last team in the NFL this year to finally register on the scoreboard.

The Rams have now lost 12 straight games, the second longest streak in the NFL. It's quite possible that, when the Rams play the Lions on Nov. 1, the two clubs will be sporting streaks of 17 and 23 consecutive losses, respectively.
- BS

Posted by: _Stumped_ | September 21, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

who's writting this? i just ask cuz by pro football stat taking the skins shoulda been 3-5 in the red zone b/c red zone % is based on scoring not just scoring touchdowns. is that the issue, do some of yall think we didn't score at all yesterday?

It's all good: The Lions are one game away from setting a new NFL record for consecutive losses - they are probably overconfident after seeing yesterday's game from FedEx - we've got them right where we want them.

Its the fact that with a team as bad as the Rams, it should not have been that close. There was an article a few days ago that mentioned "playing at the level of their opponent"

That could not be more right. When the Skins play a decent team, they play well enough to stay in the game and it looks fluid. When they play the Rams and other teams that we should destroy. We start dropping balls and missing assignments (more than usual)

rinehart say's he is ready, hope he is thomas's body is telling him to stop playing football. the right side of washington's o-line will be the youngist in year's. only way they will be able to run to the right is to..run to the right. It is totally insane to continue running to the left mix it up even if run's to the right don't net alot of yard's in the beginning. I hope they start activating 8 o-linemen on game days. scoring touchdowns getting sacks and turn-overs would also help.

I don't recall this play, several people up here think Thomas should have caught it. I wonder what Thomas was doing on the field in that situation, when you should have your top WRs on the field, not the last guy on the depth chart

3. Incomplete to Sellers

Sellers had a TD if catches the near perfect pass. One could question why Sellers was in a pattern and not Betts or Portis.

4. Incomplete to ARE

Campbell looks to ARE and throws the ball away ... since the defender has his fists filled with ARE's jersey. Easy call for the refs and he throws a flag ... and then picks it up. A terrible 'no call'.

I didnt watch the game yesterday and dont get to catch most of the local stuff being in Wyoming.

What is "the word around the campfire" about Portis. Doesnt seem to be getting the numbers he normally does. Anyone else think to start Betts, or even mason, to see if we can light a fire under the guy. I remember when BMitch called him out, he went on a tear for a few weeks after that.

The worts thing that can happen is for your number 1 to believe he is the ONLY number one.

'That could not be more right. When the Skins play a decent team, they play well enough to stay in the game and it looks fluid.'

Our defense contains just about every team in the NFL, so no matter who we play it appears we're in the game. However our offense can't put up 20 against any defense in the NFL, so it's usually a nail biter towards the end.

When we face the league's elite D's (pitt, balt, nyc, etc)...the offense is fully exposed as the piece of crap that it is and we never have a chance to win the game, despite how close it may be going into the 4th quarter.

i realize how negative this all sounds, but come on, it's what the team is until they start scoring points.

With the criticism of Zorn and Campbell, and with the Skins playing the Lions...why not just open up the playbook and go absolutely apes**t on offense. I think only if one or two plays work, it should be enough to beat the Lions.

With the criticism of Zorn and Campbell, and with the Skins playing the Lions...why not just open up the playbook and go absolutely apes**t on offense. I think only if one or two plays work, it should be enough to beat the Lions.

Posted by: CheyenneWY | September 21, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Nothing wrong with this. The trouble is that this is practically word for word what everyone was calling for against the Rams... but it didn't happen.

All the football prognosticators here in ATLANTA are predicting a Lions victory, now if you are a Skins player with any pride you should want to go to Detroit and kick the Lions azz and i'm in with CheyenneWY open up the freakin playbook and see what happens, and Zorn; stop playcalling like you you got a stick up your.....

funk sellars had 5-7 tds one yr with gibbs. they were all passes in the red zone. he actually "emerged" as a red zone receiving option

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 21, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Somebody said it earlier but he made those 7 TD catches as the option in the flat catching swing passes, not running slant routes over the middle with a defender draped on him. That route should have been to Betts not big Mike who I love but who has often proved he doesn't have the best hands in traffic. It can't be said enough, 13 plays inside the 10, not a singe fade to Kelley, not a single play action pass, the only shot to Cooley was thrown by Portis, that ain't good enough. Our redzone offense is predictable, if we run we're running left, Cooley is JC's safety valve and in tight Moss' and ARE's speed is negated so just single them up. My question is why is Fred Davis, MK12, and Marko on the bench?

But one wonders why these throws are going to Portis, Sellers, Thomas and ARE.

Where is Kelly? Cooley? Even Santana? or someone tall like Mitchell?

Posted by: p1funk

That is an excellent point. If I'm Zorn, I'm looking for my top guys to get my receiving TDs. In order, that is Moss, Cooley, ARE, Kelly and Betts. Of the 4 throws, 3 went to other guys (Portis, Thomas and Sellers). Only ARE was targeted by Campbell inside the 10.

To really feel confident about Zorn/JC's performance in the red zone, you have to know who was the primary/secondary/hot read target.
There was a site last year that broke all that stuff down in excruciating detail... don't remember it offhand, and don't really know if it was the real deal, but they had video breakdowns of plays, formations, and results.

Having said all that, in terms of upgrades, I want O-line strength before anything else. But I think we can get that plus a very strong QB prospect in next year’s draft, and handle the other top-most needs via FA.
Posted by: chasgiffen | September 21, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I cant agree, you don't dump a average but proven starter for prospect, you don't get rid of Drew Bledso till you know you have Tom Brady. I say regardless of what happens in the FO or coaching position, re-sign JC and have him play, by all means draft other QB's and give them a shot to learn but don't trade the car for the box with ??? on it.

funk sellars had 5-7 tds one yr with gibbs. they were all passes in the red zone. he actually "emerged" as a red zone receiving option

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 21, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Somebody said it earlier but he made those 7 TD catches as the option in the flat catching swing passes, not running slant routes over the middle with a defender draped on him. That route should have been to Betts not big Mike who I love but who has often proved he doesn't have the best hands in traffic. It can't be said enough, 13 plays inside the 10, not a singe fade to Kelley, not a single play action pass, the only shot to Cooley was thrown by Portis, that ain't good enough. Our redzone offense is predictable, if we run we're running left, Cooley is JC's safety valve and in tight Moss' and ARE's speed is negated so just single them up. My question is why is Fred Davis, MK12, and Marko on the bench?

Posted by: zjfr2 | September 21, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Agree zj, it was me that said that earlier.

In 2005, under Gibbs, (when Sellers had those 7 receiving TDs) the team had established an identity with the power run (which is what Gibbs does).

So down in the redzone, the team had a very simple and very successful time running the play-action, getting LBs to commit to stuffing Portis, and then flairing Sellers into the flat for some easy/open TD tosses.

Very simple and effective scheme with the right personnel.

The route that Sellers ran is not the same. It's a route that needs to be run by a WR or a TE who gets paid to have the hands that can reach out and pull in those quick bullet passes over the middle - that's not Sellers.

That is an excellent point. If I'm Zorn, I'm looking for my top guys to get my receiving TDs. In order, that is Moss, Cooley, ARE, Kelly and Betts. Of the 4 throws, 3 went to other guys (Portis, Thomas and Sellers). Only ARE was targeted by Campbell inside the 10.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 21, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I'd even prefer to see Fred Davis in those packages getting those looks over/against the diminutive ARE or our 4th receiver in Thomas.

If Davis is effective doing anything it's having the size/hands to post up in the redzone and grab TDs.

Rinehart took most of the first-team reps in the offseason while Thomas recovered from neck and knee surgeries.

Copied from above.

Just like I have been saying BeantownGreg1, another example of peciling in a guy (thomas) when he hasn't put in the work. Here we have a guy in Rinehart that has been putting in the training camp work with the first team and we assign him to the practice squad.

Randy Thomas was not football ready as is a number of other Redskins that gets a starting position.

BeantownGreg1, I don't make assertions just cause it sounds good on the blog.

When I say the Redskins are not in Football shape, you best believe I know what I am talking about.

I gotta say this, although I'm definitely NOT happy that R. Thomas is injured, I am a bit relieved he's out of the lineup. Thomas used to be one of the best pulling guards in the league but those days have been gone for a while. He has not been himself for at least 2 years. I, for one, am glad to have a young guy in there getting a shot. It will be interesting to see if we can run behind Rinehart. I'm sure part of the reason we don't run to the right is the fact that Heyer is more of a pass blocker but part of it is also Thomas's fault. Come on Rhino, earn the Rhino nickname.

I have the solution to the skins lack of production in the Red Zone: Zorn needs to subscribe to the new Red Zone channel and study what sucessful Red Zone teams are doing. He will surely see that the majority of teams are throwing the ball in the Redzone. If other teams are throwing the ball in the Red Zone with much success, it may be a clue that you may need to think about throwing the ball more in the RED ZONE....Zorn.

funk, completely agreed, its been that way for 5 years but oh well....JC has looked awful throwing deep, which is funny since that is supposed to be his forte but until they figure out a way to get MK12 involved regularly this offense will struggle. I liked the hurry up in the second quarter yesterday and the shotgun use but the truth is the most successful plays were when the "called play" broke down and when JC improvised. I'm hopeful that Zorn figures out JC is not a 3 step drop and throw QB soon and allows him to stay in what he's comfortable with. (the shotgun) more often. We have a line that was already better suited to pass pro than running and now with Thomas down that only get worse. I think we succeed going exclusively to the shotgun spread and using CP with draws and off tackle stuff out of that, but lining up playing this smashmouth west coast thing just couldn't fit our personnel worse.

I would love to see an article or some statistical comparisons to teams in the RedZone and number of run attempts vs pass attempts. Maybe two comparisons.
1. A team that is inside the 10
2. A team that is inside the 5.

sellars has to catch the ball. he'd tell u that. he was in the route b/c he can execute that play. he was wide ope he just took his eye off the ball, thinking bout whether to do the stanky leg or get silly

That is an excellent point. If I'm Zorn, I'm looking for my top guys to get my receiving TDs. In order, that is Moss, Cooley, ARE, Kelly and Betts. Of the 4 throws, 3 went to other guys (Portis, Thomas and Sellers). Only ARE was targeted by Campbell inside the 10.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 21, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I'd even prefer to see Fred Davis in those packages getting those looks over/against the diminutive ARE or our 4th receiver in Thomas.

If Davis is effective doing anything it's having the size/hands to post up in the redzone and grab TDs.

Posted by: p1funk

Not gonna agree here. You have 5-6 guys (ARE, MK, Moss, CC, Betts and perhaps CP) who you expect to make plays catching the ball. Most importantly, these are the guys Campbell is (should be) throwing to 90% of the time in practice. Put in the guys you work with on these plays, not the backups like Thomas, Davis or Sellers.

Zorn said the "problem" w/ going shotgun is that we can't use "deceptive" plays like draws...someone needs to tell him that his plays aren't "deceiving" anyone.

zcecest,
That option throw was a bit unpredictable and totally ineffective. I think the moment they saw Portis running right, they knew that it must be an option play (we NEVER actually sweep right).

I hate to hold up the Cowboys as an example, but they ran an effective inside-the-five play that is also "unpredictable". They spread out 4 receivers, put Romo in the shotgun, and then run him straight up the gut untouched on a designed QB sneak.

I've seen them do it on several occassions. I think JC could run that play effectively.

think like o coords not d coords. the obvious targets are moss,cooley,are, portis
the guy most likely to be left unaccounted for is big mike. if he's buckey nakey open going into the end zone he has to catch the ball

Larry in MD: are you suggesting that Rhino is an upgrade over Thomas? Is that why Buges, who makes these decisions, didn't even suit up Rhino, and the guy has zero games of NFL experience? Or perhaps Buges doesn't know OL as well as you?

I understand that the kool-aid is tasty from time to time but this is ridiculous, Vinny / I mean Larry.

DT Cornelius Griffin. Two things have helped him. He's healthier than in a few years; his shoulder that bothered him last year is strengthened. And playing next to Albert Haynesworth has limited the double teams. Griffin is having an excellent start and made numerous big plays Sunday. He's showing his strength. Nearly intercepted a pass, but in typical linemen fashion he tried to catch it with his body and not his hands. Still, excellent effort -- four tackles, one sack, a tackle for a loss and a quarterback hurry.
K Shaun Suisham. You know, just because. The way this season is going he should post big numbers because he'll only be attempting field goals of 30 yards or less.
LB Rocky McIntosh. He's playing physical and flying to the ball. He looks healthy and it shows. He caused a fumble that the Rams recovered and another one that Washington recovered was wiped out by a penalty (on Kedric Golston, a slap to the face of Marc Bulger).
SS Chris Horton. He blew the tackle on the 58-yard Steven Jackson run. But he caused the pivotal fumble with an excellent hit and he defended the Rams' last pass to Donnie Avery. He had good position and played the ball well in the air.
TE Chris Cooley. Cooley moves the chains. It's hard to be an explosive offense when the tight end catches so many passes. But he gives them a chance to get to the red zone. He did miss a block on Leonard Little on one red zone play, causing Clinton Portis to get stuffed. But the catches made up for it and he had some other decent blocks in the red zone.
RG Will Montgomery. Listen, the kid was not great. But he's worked at guard for two weeks -- two weeks! -- and wasn't horrible. He missed on some blocks where he had to block down. It could have been worse. Montgomery is a center, so any mistakes he would have made would be on those putting the team together who could not find a suitable backup at this spot.

Blache? No. Not stupid. Though it baffles me why this defense seems to consistently have trouble stopping teams on 3rd down.

Zorn? I wouldn't say "stupid", just in over his head. I think he's done a decent job developing JC17 (which is Zorn's expertise), but doesn't really have a clue as to how to set him up for success in real-time game-planning and play-calling.

Players? Devin Thomas and Robert Henson seem to be as stupid as they come. I'll give the other guys the benefit of the doubt...

Duds
RT Stephon Heyer. This is a problem area and will continue to be so, especially on the ground. Too many times Heyer did not get any movement out of his run blocking and a couple times he didn't even engage his guy it seemed. That happened on a draw in the red zone in which Leonard Little was never engaged by Heyer. And that occured in pass protection as well. He still needs to get stronger. He does not help clear cutback lanes and, on the option pass by Clinton Portis, he and Montgomery needed to do a better job selling a run. They did not.
C Casey Rabach. Facing big tackles over him Rabach too often got stoned at the point of attack or driven back into the backfield. On two red zone plays in the second quarter he got driven back into the backfield about two yards. Not his best showing.
Jim Zorn. More playcalling issues. The halfback option is a good play; yes. But in that situation, on third and goal from the 5, the Rams weren't fooled. Maybe on second down it would have worked, an element of surprise. On third down, though, the Rams knew a pass ws coming. And, really, the playcalling between the 20s was fine. They did gain 362 yards of offense. It couldn't have been all bad. The play to Sellers was good, but he dropped the ball. And, in fairness to Zorn, the offensive ilne has not done its job in the red zone. Makes it tough for a playcaller. But we did figure out that when Mike Sellers went in motion to fullback, they almost always ran the ball (except for once).
CB DeAngelo Hall. He slipped on the fade route in the end zone, giving up a touchdown. It's one play, but it was a big one.
TE Fred Davis. Really, I don't know that he was bad or good. But I do know that on the fourth and 1 run, he got moved back a couple feet by the safety, causing Clinton Portis to have to run a bit wider. And Davis has not been a threat at all in the passing game.
WR Devin Thomas. One kickoff return that produced little. Not much of a factor in the passing game. Yes, the ball in the end zone would have been a tough catch so I won't knock him much for that. But it would be nice to see him run past a defensive back. The Redskins really need something from him.

*I'd love to have put Jason Campbell in the stud category because he did a nice job executing the offense, making good decisions etc. However, the missed deep ball to Malcolm Kelly and the lack of a touchdown (yes, two drops, we know) prevent that from being the case. Hard to put many offensive guys on the list when a team scores nine points against a bad defense. This is no longer about his progress; it's about his results.

Not gonna agree here. You have 5-6 guys (ARE, MK, Moss, CC, Betts and perhaps CP) who you expect to make plays catching the ball. Most importantly, these are the guys Campbell is (should be) throwing to 90% of the time in practice. Put in the guys you work with on these plays, not the backups like Thomas, Davis or Sellers.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | September 21, 2009 7:37 PM |

I think you got a point here, but you clearly have the personnel mixed up. If I read you correctly, you are saying put in the guys you work with.

If that is correct, I can tell you for sure, the guys that practice and he works with most are not the ones starting, or more to the point getting the play calls.

Jim Zorn. More playcalling issues. The halfback option is a good play; yes. But in that situation, on third and goal from the 5, the Rams weren't fooled.

Posted by: TWISI | September 21, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

...and the GMen weren't fooled on ARE's reverse option.

Someone needs to inform Zorn that "trick plays" only work when you set them up.

If we had actually run ARE on a reverse or 2 successfully, then that would setup the option.

Same with Portis. All we do is run left. So when Portis sweeps right, what is the D thinking? If we were sweeping to the right with regular success or as a regular staple of our offense, then you pop that play in there and catch them off guard.

Zorn said the "problem" w/ going shotgun is that we can't use "deceptive" plays like draws...someone needs to tell him that his plays aren't "deceiving" anyone.

zcecest,
That option throw was a bit unpredictable and totally ineffective. I think the moment they saw Portis running right, they knew that it must be an option play (we NEVER actually sweep right).

I hate to hold up the Cowboys as an example, but they ran an effective inside-the-five play that is also "unpredictable". They spread out 4 receivers, put Romo in the shotgun, and then run him straight up the gut untouched on a designed QB sneak.

I've seen them do it on several occassions. I think JC could run that play effectively.

Posted by: p1funk | September 21, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

I agree this would work IF the Redskins spread the field 4 wide a few times inside the 10 and throw the ball. For deception to work, the opponent must think you present a viable attack they have to cover before you run the counter intuitive play that deceives them.

Our half back sweep pass play didn't work because nobody who mattered (Rams LB and safeties) was threatened by a CP run, they keyed on the linemen who did not fire down field to engage the Ram defenders. Instead, they "walked the line" to protect CP while he set up to pass.

I only recall acouple of deep throws. ARE made a nice catch on one for about a 25 yard gain and Campbell threw to MK12 on the first play of the game. That ball was about 6 inches too short and the Rams DB made a very good play to save a Skins TD. Yeah, Campbell missed on that one, but it wasn't awful.

The seventies were more interesting in this respect: He may be the NFL's best late inning relief pitcher. Imagine a hall-of-famer, best pure passer in the game, coming in late in the game, running **HIS** offense and pulling games out of the fire.

Then ask yourself, could they do this today? Consistently? With the QB calling his own plays and running an entirely different offense (passing could almost be called WC) after the team spends most of the afternoon running a very rush focused play action offense?

I just read above that we will have Rinehart and Heyer on one side, so we will run to the other. STUPID.. that is why we have had little running, 'cause everyone knows we run behind Samuels now. Just great. Please run Jason so he will get his but kicked and we can get a little accuracy from Tod Collins....at least the passes will go more than 10 yrds.

I just read above that we will have Rinehart and Heyer on one side, so we will run to the other. STUPID.. that is why we have had little running, 'cause everyone knows we run behind Samuels now.

Don't worry. No one expected Thomas to last very long. (Two of these sorts of career crippling injuries plus the neck? Retirement time.) As good as he is I'm afraid Samuels is probably next given his history. Then what? It's why they carry so many "active" tackles.

We need OL. However, with the exception of Oher a lot of the top OT's have been going down with some serious injuries? Crimping the offenses they were drafted to block for. Guess there always is a silver lining.

Larry in MD: are you suggesting that Rhino is an upgrade over Thomas? Is that why Buges, who makes these decisions, didn't even suit up Rhino, and the guy has zero games of NFL experience? Or perhaps Buges doesn't know OL as well as you?

I understand that the kool-aid is tasty from time to time but this is ridiculous, Vinny / I mean Larry.

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 21, 2009 7:46 PM |

Yeah! I am saying that the O-Line is going to be an upgrade with Randy Thomas gone. He never practiced. He ain't that damn good to have not practiced for 2 years and start over the guy/s that practice everyday.

And Buge's is a company guy, and he has to play the game and pencil in the guys the orgainization wants to start and not put the guys on the field who actually practive every day.

They did good by cutting Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas showing again that he is not a trench warrior by getting hurt may be a blessing.

We'll see how Reinhart does. Against the Lions, you figure we're going to simplify, simplify, simplify for him, try to get him used to game speed, I would hope a lot of drive blocking.
The big concern here is that if he struggles in run blocking, and Heyer is next to him, we're basically giving up on the right side.
If that's the case, the BMW experiment will happen at some point in the near future.

Yeah! I am saying that the O-Line is going to be an upgrade with Randy Thomas gone. He never practiced. He ain't that damn good to have not practiced for 2 years and start over the guy/s that practice everyday.

Dude, I hope you're right because if you aren't this team is in deep trouble. The reason why Campbell is so comfortable in the shotgun is just because the OL is getting creamed pretty badly right now. Teams with decent to good DL's and LB's with speed are going to have a field day with this line.

If that's the case, the BMW experiment will happen at some point in the near future.

Posted by: daggar | September 21, 2009

daggar, its painful to say but I think BMW is envisioned at left tackle if Samuels goes down. I think Redskins management believes this is possible. All though god only knows why they didn't draft any OL.

/And Buge's is a company guy, and he has to play the game and /pencil in the guys the orgainization wants to start and not put /the guys on the field who actually practive every day.
/Larry in ClintonMD

Wow, just wow. Bugel isn't making his own decisions, he is a pawn of .. who exactly? Clearly Zorn listens to Bugel (wouldn't even name Rhino in the presser today because apparently he wanted to talk to Buges again). If he was a pawn of Vinny, he would have BMW and Rhino starting already. I guess he is a pawn to (insert answer here)

I am sorry, I just can't follow what you are saying here, except the gist of it is that based on your experience and observations, Bugel is a washed up coach who over-rewards loyalty and ignores obvious talent when it is in front of him. I am pretty sure that it is fair to characterize that as a minority opinion, but perhaps others here will agree with you.

The seventies were more interesting in this respect: He may be the NFL's best late inning relief pitcher. Imagine a hall-of-famer, best pure passer in the game, coming in late in the game, running **HIS** offense and pulling games out of the fire.

Posted by: periculum

Sonny was a master at the end of games. I still remember, play for play, his drive to beat fellow HOFer Bob Griese and the Fins in RFK.

Down 4 after Griese tossed his TD. On the kickoff, Mul-Key returns it to the 40. 100 seconds to play, 2 time outs. 6 yards to Moses Denson with a defender grasping at Sonny's leg. Clock runs. Short drop, Sonny fires a bullet 10 yards to Jerry Smith over the middle. 1st down, clock runs. 4 yard square out to Charley Taylor, out of bounds on the left sideline. Clock stops. At the Miami 40

Next play, Sonny drops deep, steps up and hits Taylor again. 18 yards down the right side, 1st down. Infield dirt flies everywhere. Time out. Next play, Sonny hits Roy Jefferson at the 6. Final time out. 1st and goal. Next play, Denson over the middle, sure TD, but the Fin LB tackles Denson before the ball gets there. Refs are the only people to miss the interference call. Even the Fin LB said it was interference ... because it'd have been a TD otherwise.

Next play, Sonny hits Larry Smith in the right flat and Smith races to the goal line. TD.

Skins win.

Sonny was classic, but he was incredibly brilliant after Lombardi coached him. Too bad he was mostly hurt after that. Still won a passing title at age 40!!

Dude, I hope you're right because if you aren't this team is in deep trouble. The reason why Campbell is so comfortable in the shotgun is just because the OL is getting creamed pretty badly right now. Teams with decent to good DL's and LB's with speed are going to have a field day with this line.

Posted by: periculum | September 21, 2009 8:11 PM |

peri,

What games have you been watching the line has played very good in the first two games in pass protection, but keep throwing out the lies to try and make your point.

For all those people saying we will have to run to the left now, what have you been watching we've only been running to the left all year.

At the expense of exposing my age, first saw Sonny play in the early 60's - as an Eagle. Those days you could walk up to the ticket booth on game day and get a 35 yd line seat at RFK. Anyway, Skins drove late in the game to take the lead on the arm of Norm Snead. Snead had been a first round pick from Wake Forest and was still a young guy. Sonny had been around for awhile. Eagles got the kickoff with around 90 seconds remaining and Sonny took then on a drive culminating in something like a 30 yd touchdown pass to Tommy McDonald in the waning seconds. Eagles won. That off season, Skins trade Norm Snead to Eagles for Sonny. Snead wanders off into oblivion while Sonny becomes, well, you know the rest of the story.

Well, the redskins 53 now face THE gut check moment. They (and their HC) just got deservedly booed off of their own field after having won a game. The local fans and media are in an uproar over their lack of ability to play any where near their potential. They have failed to score an offensive TD in at least 8 quarters including the last 4 against a lowest 10 percent team. The rest of the NFL thinks they are a joke. National pundits have picked them to lose to a team that is 0-18. Their QB has a sore and swollen foot and won't be able to practice until at least mid week.

They need to step the F up and decide the crap playing and play calling is over. Catch the catchable balls, play with discipline and intelligence, and call plays that use your talented players' talents.

The rest of the NFL thinks they are a joke. National pundits have picked them to lose to a team that is 0-18. Their QB has a sore and swollen foot and won't be able to practice until at least mid week.

I am sorry, I just can't follow what you are saying here, except the gist of it is that based on your experience and observations, Bugel is a washed up coach who over-rewards loyalty and ignores obvious talent when it is in front of him. I am pretty sure that it is fair to characterize that as a minority opinion, but perhaps others here will agree with you.

Posted by: zornskins2 | September 21, 2009 8:15 PM

Maybe you don't follow because you have been ignoring the play of the O-line the past few years. How about Samuels continually starting and we find out at the end of the season that he was hurt and actually should not have been starting.

How about Heyer earing a starting spot, but gets benched for Jansen, who was a wimp that always drew penalties in the Redzone.

You questioned that Buges is washed up, I didn't. But what I know for sure is that this Team pencils in a lot of starters on reputation only and not on continued earned practice or game success.

What games have you been watching the line has played very good in the first two games in pass protection, but keep throwing out the lies to try and make your point

Flounder do you even WATCH football games? Or do you just like to watch Clinton Portis and Campbell throw the ball?

Did you see Dallas take it to the Giants? If not for a guy who wants to be a franchise QB like his brother ... well ... dude Dallas scored 31 points! THIRTY ONE POINTS against that same Giants defense the Redskins faced the previous WEEK!! AND wait their "great one" Tony Romo threw not 1 but THREE PICKS against them!?

Its like saying "its the economy stupid", ITS THE OL, believe me. There is no way Campbell completes much in the way of passes taking the snap under center. We were luck to see Portis get 79 years and a 4.2 average. Against A BAD TEAM!!!??

Its like saying "its the economy stupid", ITS THE OL, believe me. There is no way Campbell completes much in the way of passes taking the snap under center. We were luck to see Portis get 79 years and a 4.2 average. Against A BAD TEAM!!!??

Dude either you're not watching or you need glasses,

Posted by: periculum | September 21, 2009 8:47 PM |

This has nothing to do with the line being good in pass protection, the Cowboys coaches let Romo throw the ball are coach has him scared to throw an interception.

I did not say the line is good at run blocking that needs to improve, but teams are not teeing off on JC.

CheyenneWY open up the freakin playbook and see what happens, and Zorn; stop playcalling like you you got a stick up your....

Or perhaps you call plays like you have the oldest, least healthy offensive line in the league? Although I do find it surprising that he decided to run the ball so much in the redzone knowing that this line is going to be very, very poor at that for the remainder of this season.

You questioned that Buges is washed up, I didn't. But what I know for sure is that this Team pencils in a lot of starters on reputation only and not on continued earned practice or game success.

LarryInClintonMD.

Larry: are you saying that Bugel makes the call and recommends who starts on the OL and who is inactive. If yes, then your questioning the decisions on who starts = questioning Bugel (you not me, I am fine with Bugel). If no, then who the heck is telling Bugel what to do, or overriding his decisions? I just really don't understand what you are saying here. Thanks for any clarification.

I happen to believe that Bugel sees the guys enough to put forward the best group every week, even those who can't motor 100% every week in practice, and that there is a reason in Bugel's thinking that Rhino has never been active for a single game. But perhaps my faith is unjustified and Bugel is an idiot or past his prime or something? I just don't understand who is making these bad decisions if you are not pointing at Buges - just tell me who is making the bad decisions here, thanks.

I did not say the line is good at run blocking that needs to improve, but teams are not teeing off on JC.

You love changing your argument in the middle don't you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 21, 2009

Look at the fumbles, when and how they occurred. Look at completions in the shotgun versus out of it. Look at the number of hurries and sacks against them. But it could be worst, if Samuels goes down it might be.

LaVar ripping anyone is pathetic...who is he to start ripping anyone Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 21, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse
*******************************************
LaVar, is'nt that the guy who failed to have his Agent(Comdom Head Bro Inc) read his contract,then accuse "The Daniel"
of snookering him? I think he should stick to his day job (Oppolo Project Consulant)

Or perhaps you call plays like you have the oldest, least healthy offensive line in the league? Although I do find it surprising that he decided to run the ball so much in the redzone knowing that this line is going to be very, very poor at that for the remainder of this season.

Posted by: periculum | September 21, 2009 8:55 PM |

peri,

These are the teams who have given up more sacks then us, I guess all there lines suck.

If we lose to the Lions I will join the sky is falling crowd that i have been attacking.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | September 21, 2009

The sky isn't falling ... yet ... probably won't as long as the defense holds up. They actually look a lot better than I expected. I am surprised at how well the linebacking appears to have come together. Still a lot of questions about the DB's safeties included? Still have to assume Blache will address those in his own imitable way.

For all the TBs on this blog that whined about the Skins red zone blues there is this from the NYT re the Giants vs. the Cowboys:

"For the Giants, it shows that they can win games that do not follow their strategic script. But going without a touchdown on the five drives that cracked the Cowboys’ 20-yard line was a disconcerting statistic, too."

Now you might say that the Giants were going against a better defense than the Rams to which I would add that the Giants offense, espc Manning, is better than the Skins.

Also in FF this week (although I think once again we are in the JV league), Dealer and Stumped are looking particularly impressive, followed by the mercurial CLarry and the (I think) Nate team that was turned over to DC sween).

Meanwhile, Joseph Addai has to gain like 3 yards for psps to finish his pasting of me this week. S Patrick looking like an up and comper too

These are the teams who have given up more sacks then us, I guess all there lines suck.

Yes. And how many offensive plays did they run? How long were their drives? What is their 3rd down conversion percentage? How many quarterback hurries on those offensive plays? How many POINTS have they scored compared to the Redskins?

Dude, you are using one solitary stat not taken in context. Look at this offense. Everyone wants to blame the coach, the QB but the engine driving the car is the OL. Until this week probably the oldest and most infirm in the league?

Now look at the BEAST. Where do you think the Redskins rank as of now?

What is "the word around the campfire" about Portis. Doesnt seem to be getting the numbers he normally does. Anyone else think to start Betts, or even mason, to see if we can light a fire under the guy.
Posted by: CheyenneWY | September 21, 2009 6:08 PM

Seemed to me that Portis had a decent average (4.2 YPC?), but didn't really sizzle. Betts, on the other hand, was back to his north/south running ways of yore and had a nice burst I hadn't seen in a while-real aggressive. Portis is clearly the starter, but IMO Betts earned some more opportunities.

Watching the Colts-Fins and Pennington who doesn't have an arm that's even close to Campbell's, took two shots for the endzone, and although the TE & WR dropped the passes, at least they're taking chances. Zorn's offense appears to lack a killer instinct.

I cant agree, you don't dump a average but proven starter for prospect, you don't get rid of Drew Bledso till you know you have Tom Brady. I say regardless of what happens in the FO or coaching position, re-sign JC and have him play, by all means draft other QB's and give them a shot to learn but don't trade the car for the box with ??? on it.

Posted by: alex35332
________________________

Who said anything about dumping JC? I never said that, so I don't think you read my post. I just said we need to keep working (aggressively) on finding a better QB because despite all the defending of his mediocrity that I see on here, he's just another average QB. Tom (Todd) Collins would do just as well.

Flounder the Redskins rank 18th in passing yards. They rank 17th in Rushing Yards. 17th in Total Yards. 17th in first downs, And 2 teams haven't played yet. 14th in 3rd downs attempted. 28th in points scored.

Yes they do make a good percentage (7th but tied) of 3rd downs. But in the end its about sustaining drives and scoring. And they suck at that. But then you probably blame Campbell for everything ...

I think old Jerry would gladly have traded a 31 point loss for a 9-7 win. As for Wash, if they win 9-7 next week you take the 2-1 record and keep trying to improve. Obviously bad redzone offense is evidently going to cost games but take the wins and work on fixing the problems.

It's so sad, Bill Parcells has built a competitive team out of rookies and scraps within 2 years. Vinny Cerrato has tried to build a competitive team for years, and he has failed. No real point to this post, I am just depressed because the redskins stink like a puffy bung hole.

are u crediting the dolphins for the same thing that happened to the skins sunday? change te for fb and that souns like our first souple scoring drives.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | September 21, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Nah bruh, don't twist my comments up. Pennington took two consecutive shots for the end zone from 20+ yards out. Have you seen the Skins O take any chances like that? No. That's the point my ENTIRE comment was attempting to make. Zorn & Campbell need to get their killer instinct in order and take some chances.

LaVar ripping anyone is pathetic...who is he to start ripping anyone Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 21, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse
*******************************************
LaVar, is'nt that the guy who failed to have his Agent(Comdom Head Bro Inc) read his contract,then accuse "The Daniel"
of snookering him? I think he should stick to his day job (Oppolo Project Consulant)

Posted by: Spanglerg | September 21, 2009 8:59 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually since the revelation that Snyder was scalping tickets that once belonged to sued fans... I am giving LaVar more credibility re his accusations a few years ago against the Skins.. I think we all should..
And redemption should also include BMitch complained about the Snyder machine and met a similar fate.

The backup to Thomas is coming from the inactive squad? So his big break is to make the active squad AND become the starting RG? If he was any good, why isn't he on the active squad as the backup ready to go into the game on a minute's notice? I don't have much optimism for this move.

If that was in response to my post I was being facetious. It was a jab at all the people that say running in the redzone is bad play calling. It's bad play by the offensive line. A lot of teams run inside the 5.

Can anyone console me that my beloved team has fallen so far that I'm genuinely concerned we can't beat a team that has lost 18 games in a row? Just typing that sentence makes me sick but its true. I've watched both their games, they've scored 40 legit points on offense, we've scored 19.....they were all over Favre yesterday, we just lost our right guard and still have an oline that is a concern, they have a receiver that is bigger and faster than Moss who embarrassed our secondary in the preseason, and they may have just enough desperation to not set a record for futility at home to play with an intensity that we never seem to have......color me scared.

I know this is a Skins blog, but if I'm the Fins and I draft Pat White from WVA, wouldn't you want him running the wildcat. You would think he would bring that extra dynamic of passing that Ronnie Brown doesn't bring to the 'cat.

I know this is a Skins blog, but if I'm the Fins and I draft Pat White from WVA, wouldn't you want him running the wildcat. You would think he would bring that extra dynamic of passing that Ronnie Brown doesn't bring to the 'cat.

The backup to Thomas is coming from the inactive squad? So his big break is to make the active squad AND become the starting RG? If he was any good, why isn't he on the active squad as the backup ready to go into the game on a minute's notice? I don't have much optimism for this move.

Posted by: hz9604
____________________

Hmm, does that remind you of anything? Like, say, a certain left-coast position coach leapfrogging the coordinator position straight to head coach?

zeke, I'm not blaming Addai. I'm blaming Devin Thomas and Mike Sellers. They catch those TDs from Soup and he gets all the fantasy points I need to win... not to mention the benefits that would have accrued to the real-life Skins had they caught those balls, you know, the ones that hit them in the hands.

Our offense will never look like that with JC back there....and Zorn needs to go too!! I was indifferent towards them both coming in to this year...cautious optimism you could say...but I've seen enough..Soup is a good backup...like Dilfer ended up..no better..and Zorn is in over his head...I liked him but he ain't gonna get in done here..mark it down..he's done. We are the same team we had back in the day of Norv..Oh How The Mighty Fall............ps....Our D isnt as good as I expected either...Hey Blache, check out Rex Ryan tape sometime!!

Posted by: Flounder21 | September 21, 2009 9:04 PM |
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For what it's worth, I still don't understand the comments supporting the offensive line's pass blocking against the Giants. For the most part, J.C. didn't have time to do anything besides try and avoid a sack.

Watching the Cowboys against that same Giants D, Romo had time all day, and Marion Barber had big holes to hit. The only reason the Giants won is because Romo stank the joint up.

zeke, as I remember, it was a drop. It looked to me like Devin's shoulders were turned back towards Soup, who threw the ball right where it needed to be, only "right in Devin Thomas' hands" is not where it needed to be... ball hit both hands, dropped harmlessly to the turf.

zeke, as I remember, it was a drop. It looked to me like Devin's shoulders were turned back towards Soup, who threw the ball right where it needed to be, only "right in Devin Thomas' hands" is not where it needed to be... ball hit both hands, dropped harmlessly to the turf.

His best season ever:
1967 Redskins (14 games)
288 out of 508
3,747 yds. 31 TDs 16 INTs, 87.3 rating
team record that season: 5-6-3

Yeah, I'm going with Sonny.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | September 21, 2009 3:16 PM
Man, if Sonny ever had a defense behind him, he would've won a Super Bowl. When we finally got one, we had a coach who couldn't stand a QB who could light up the scoreboard.

Wow...when will our offense look like that? touchdown in 32 seconds...thats what an allpro, mvp qb can do for your team.

Posted by: kdofour2000 | September 21, 2009 11:21 PM
And just who on our team do you think could have taken that last TD to the house for us? Did we keep either of the speed backs from preseason? Did we draft any quality OLinemen in the draft? Do we have a coach or O coordinator who calls good plays in the redzone?

Nate, a review of the Internets reveals that McMullen was released by the Lions on or about August 28. (Ouch.)

NFL.com shows his last regular season action as being four games with the 2008 Seahawks. Apparently he benefited from the Great Receiver Reaving visited upon Seattle at the beginning of last season.

His player page on NFL.com has four highlight videos, one of which is a nice catch and run against the 49ers last year, where he is stripped of the ball at the end and the 49ers recover. I'm not sure how that's a highlight.

But also included is the pretty catch he had for the Skins against the Colts at the 2008 Hall of Fame Game. Saw that one in person.

This fan base lacks the patience for a GM. A GM builds a team...to build a team takes time...we have talent, but not elite talent (maybe on defense).

We complain when we go out and get expensive free agents

AND

We complain when we coach up out own players.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 21, 2009 4:24 PM
We complain when we trade high round draft choices or tie up tons of cap space for ex-stars at the end of their careers who end up not contributing much. We complain when we pass over good players in the draft in our most glaring need area (OL) for an entire draft. We complain when we let players we develop into solid or better players sign with other teams w/o making a decent effort to keep them. Listen, its just a fact, longtime Skins fans like myself saw an almost immediate drop-off in the management of the team after old man Cooke died. No GM, no continuity, as Wilbon said, constant chaos. I will ALWAYS cheer for the team on the field, but that doesn't go for the owner or management off the field.

This fan base lacks the patience for a GM. A GM builds a team...to build a team takes time...we have talent, but not elite talent (maybe on defense).

We complain when we go out and get expensive free agents

AND

We complain when we coach up out own players.

Posted by: rickyroge | September 21, 2009 4:24 PM
We complain when we trade high round draft choices or tie up tons of cap space for ex-stars at the end of their careers who end up not contributing much. We complain when we pass over good players in the draft in our most glaring need area (OL) for an entire draft. We complain when we let players we develop into solid or better players sign with other teams w/o making a decent effort to keep them. Listen, its just a fact, longtime Skins fans like myself saw an almost immediate drop-off in the management of the team after old man Cooke died. No GM, no continuity, as Wilbon said, constant chaos. I will ALWAYS cheer for the team on the field, but that doesn't go for the owner or management off the field.

Take one thing to the bank: Jansen may be old and Waaayyyy past his prime, but he is a smart guy and now he is PISSED at Zorn and will do everything in his power to makes sure the Lions D knows everything their is to know about Zorn's blocking schemes and check calls.

The backup to Thomas is coming from the inactive squad? So his big break is to make the active squad AND become the starting RG? If he was any good, why isn't he on the active squad as the backup ready to go into the game on a minute's notice? I don't have much optimism for this move.

Posted by: hz9604 | September 21, 2009 10:43 PM |

Thats because you don't know how football works in the NFL, the first two games they only had 7 O-Lineman active. The starters one T backup and then Montgomery who is the C backup but can fill in at guard.