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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir

h'uh? When did Bro ever mention that there was more then one statue?

To be specific, I'm referring to Bro-Dave's manufacturing of ****ty jpeg objects that were worth negative amounts of money, that he then sent up into orbit. It's not beyond reason that if he made one jpeg Statue, he could make more than one.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

I had another epiphany about Troll relationships (Don't worry, its about Morials this time):

Did you know why eridian wen't on a killing spree? Because Feferi is the worst Morial EVER. She did the stupidest thing a calmer morial (as apposed to a berserker morial) can make. She broke up.

You could say Eridian was being too clingy but thats the point. A calmer must endure. This isn't a freaking Boyfriend. You in charge of holding a mad, angry person in line so he doesn't go ballistic and kill everybody. Your stuck for life until possibly the berserker can get another.

Feferis job was to be stuck with Eridian, no matter how repulsive he may be and ensure that he doesn't kill anybody. A morial isn't as much a friendship as much as a dangerous responsibility.

I know that as a fanfic its non-cannon, but I saw a great example of a Morial relationship. One troll needed to take care of a psychopath, and needed to endure lots of abuse and even needed to DRUG the berserker to ensure that she didn't kill anybody.

And why would anybody want that kind of risk in a relationship? Trolls can be best friends without needing a psychopath in the mix.

And why would the psychopath want this?

Which brings me to my next point: Why was Calliope saying she can't feel 3 other types of relationships? She likes having friends. Thats like Morials except without the dangerous parts. Unless she can't feel Best friendship?

And final thing. Pre Scratch alternia makes more sense if you think that Aranea was lying through her teeth. That Alternia 1 was just as bad as alternia 2.

There is pretty much confirmation that Scratch didn't genetically alter the trolls in any way.

But there are too many things that are genetically vile in their physiology for alternia1 to be any form of decent society, not even talking about Utopia.

Gamzee was drugged out and was not under the influence of anything (Fate does not count) when he revealed that his true colors are a mad enraged psycho.

Now which "Utopia" society has an entire blood caste born insane and violent with voodoo powers?

Which "Utopia" society has a relationship (As in these aren't just rare occurrences. This happens so much that people WANT this. This means that there are so many psychos that half the planet is psycho and the other is not) based around keeping their insane people in check?

Which "Utopia" society has relationships based around hate, and making sure that the people that hate each other don't kill each other?

If you think that Earth2 was just a slight change up of Earth1. Alternia2 could have been just a slight change up of Alternia1.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

i'm too tired to think about everything else you mentioned there, but i'm going to step in and hold a shield up for feferi before somebody else comes in with a sheild covered in spikes and explosive swords aimed right at you.

Yes, Feferi broke up with Eridan, and yes, this may have been a mistake. But to be perfectly fair, he was not exactly helping the situation any. Even despite his morailigence, he was still a largely violent troll with an open hatred towards lower casted trolls. it's not that feferi WASN'T doing her job, it's that she COULDN'T do her job, she simply could not hold back the massive charging train that was Eridan's instability and could only instead slow it down as much as she could. If there was a more pacifying troll such as say Kanaya or Nepeta (Eri/Kan seecret moirail shipper here, hi.) then maybe things could have worked out better, but the problem was that while on Alternia any other viable options were either already taken (Viriska, Equius) or too far away or unknown to do anything about it. (Various other trolls we never saw.)

And on Feferi's side, she had to put up with this genocidal troll who would often times not listen to her, or otherwise SAY he listened to her, simply to turn around later on and reveal that he really didn't, he was an emotional drain for her, if it was anything like i think it is, it might even have been so bad that there were times when she feared leaving her computer in case Eridan tried to do something stupid or horrible again, and if she wasn't there to talk him out of it, he or everyone around him would pay the price for it!

Eridan was the equivalent of a broken plug that always leaks, and the sink he is attached to is Feferi, and the water is her emotions and sanity. Had she not broken her relationship with him, he might have improved yes, but from what she could see, the only thing in her future was an uncomfortable life of catering to this angry fish boy who didn't even like water with little to no success, and sacrificing all her personal freedoms to do it.

And hey don't get me wrong here, i think she should have kept at it too, i even ship Fef/Eri as both hearts and diamonds depending on the situation. But as it is in canon, and as far as feferi could tell, she could not do the job she had been given, and after so long of trying, she didn't even want to anymore, and had to break the relationship in order to liberate herself, hence the "i'm FR-E-E-E-E-E-E-E" bit as she swam up into her first gate.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Thats my point:

Hes YOUR Crazy Genocidal fish now. You have to stand all the abuse and all the problems. You can't JUST break up. If your job is to monitor a nuclear reactor and then you get annoyed you don't leave it unsupervised yelling FREEDOM! And if it means sacrificing everything about your life to ensure that it doesn't go nuclear then thats tough ****.

I think Kanaya <> Equis worked out better because Equis isn't as voilent as a troll. Well yes to Violent but just not as "Kill others" type.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon

Thats my point:

Hes YOUR Crazy Genocidal fish now. You have to stand all the abuse and all the problems. You can't JUST break up. If your job is to monitor a nuclear reactor and then you get annoyed you don't leave it unsupervised yelling FREEDOM! And if it means sacrificing everything about your life to ensure that it doesn't go nuclear then thats tough ****.

I think Kanaya <> Equis worked out better because Equis isn't as voilent as a troll. Well yes to Violent but just not as "Kill others" type.

So yeah. Who wants Morials again?

But here's the thing - moiraillegiance goes both ways. Moirails (note the spelling, please) take care of EACH OTHER. It's not just one way. Eridan was a whiny jerk, and Feferi was a naive kid, but she tried to help Eridan and he didn't try to help her. Also worth noting is the relative prevalence of genocide complexes in Alternian society. Eridan's ideals wouldn't be that uncommon, and not very worthy of note. It would be more like having to look after a loud dog, who you were supposed to be playing with. It was just loud, all bark and no bite, until it unexpectedly killed you after you went to your friend's house.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Weaker, more stable trolls keep the stronger, more violent trolls from harming themselves or those around them, and in exchange the stronger/violent ones are supposed to help the weaker ones, either defending them or teaching them to be strong.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Mizzim has the truth of it - all trolls are potentially volatile, moirails are supposed to keep each other grounded and supported. Gamzee and Karkat are a great example of this.

The problem with Feferi and Eridan is that Eridan doesn't want her as a moirail, he wants her as a matesprit* and is being increasingly aggressive about it. And she's not interested. The fact that she shows any interest in Sollux (who, besides being a lisping nerd, is near the bottom of the hemospectrum) not only adds fuel to the fire of his rivalry with Sollux (no blackrom here, they simply want to kill eachother), it makes her respond poorly when Sollux is shot, which leads directly to her death.

* Honestly, Eridan seemed to just want anything with horns as a matesprit. He was a sad and lonely guy who only had his pride to cling to, but his pride was what made him so repulsive to everyone. The catch 22 made him ever more desperate and unhinged.

Nepata and Equius are much better moirails. Equius may be caste obsessed, but he really does care for her and wants what's best for her - it's just that he can't accept the thought of her flushing with someone of a lower caste, which is tricky because there's nobody on the entire meteor who shares a caste, so any relationship would be guilty of that. They protected each other, fought for each other, and tried to keep each other from self-destructing. In the end their focus on protecting each other was what put them in a position to be killed.

Originally Posted by M'aiq the Liar

The Wood Elves are not made of wood and the Sea Elves are not made of water. M'aiq still wonders about the High Elves.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

I call that by blood powers. We all know that outside of that it doesn't make sense. And Karkat is just angry. Not Homicidal (He seems to be very queazy of death). He didn't reely need calming down (Outside of the usual).

Again, Im once again questioning the effectiveness of a relationship based of preventing a crazy person from flying off the handle if the calmer just can quit if they get annoyed. The majority of crazy people will not act pleasant. Especially the ones that need Moirail the most. Berserkers need to protect thier partners. I don't think it stretches beyond that.

I still think that my Nuclear reactor analogy stands here. Even if the nuclear reactor doesn't seem to be acting up-You don't leave it alone.

But I should try not to think about it because everything about trolls breaks apart into little tiny pieces if you think about it.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

I'd agree with mizzim's assessment, I think.

I saw Equius and Nepeta's relationship being much more mutually beneficial and caring than Eridan and Feferi's. Equius was (perhaps over-)protective of Nepeta and she seemed (to me) to genuinely enjoy helping him with his feelings.
Eridan didn't care so much about Feferi as he was obsessed with her and with romantic relationships (especially the one he had). And Feferi didn't enjoy what she had to do, it was a burden on her that lead to her wanting to have less responsibility for him. It may have been a mistake to try to break up with someone who obsessed with having relationships whose role in his life was keeping him from committing genocide, but it was an understandable decision (especially considering that his genocidal shtick was more empty boasting and faulty doomsday devices than actual violence - that may have just been that, at least for Eridan, the moirallegiance was working but it still brings up questions of how serious he was).
It also seemed that while Equius would vent and then be noticeably calmer and safer for a while after talking with Nepeta, while Eridan was constantly angry and pushing genocide (IIRC). That may have been a difference between the two or symptoms of an unsuccessful moirallegiance.
Moirails balance one another's personalities, it's not just keeping the more violent one in check (though that can be a large part of it).

All the above is obviously as I understand or observe it.

Edit: Also, Eridan's situation probably wasn't helped by the extinction of all but twelve trolls. The odds of having an ideal romantic partner among the other eleven for any quadrant is rather small (especially for someone as unpleasant and difficult as Eridan), and at least on Alternia he might have been somewhat more threatened by the idea of lots of trolls turning on him (which might have been an ideal situation complicated by Feferi interfering - presumably what normally happens is that the trolls too unstable to have a moirail self-destruct by pissing off too many members of an incredibly violent race for them to handle, or realise the threat and tone it down/find a way to vent it).

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Originally Posted by ScionoftheVoid

Moirails balance one another's personalities, it's not just keeping the more violent one in check (though that can be a large part of it).

Sort of this. Moirallegiance is more than friends/acquaintances, but it's non-reproductive (that's matespritship). "Soul bros/sisters" is sort of one way to put it, only not really. While one typically looks after the other, that's not the entirety of the relationship - similar to human nebulous "love" in which reproduction is not the entirety of the relationship. The closest I've seen to a solid definition in relation to human terms of love is "sibling love" or "familial love", despite trolls not having human families. The reason Trolls consider it romance probably stems from the fact that they don't have families in the human sense.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

I view Equius and Nepetas Relationship as just friendship. She never really calms him down that much. He seems to have it sorted out by taking out his anger on robots.

Wha... bu... no!

The whole point of Equius and Nepeta's moirallegiance is that it is supposed to be the iconic example of a pairing functioning so well that everyone just looks at it and says "Oh, yeah, that's a moirallegiance there". They are the most successful pale red pairing in the comic.

When Nepeta starts to go off the handle, Equius calms her down and brings her back under control. When Equius starts to flip out, Nepeta cuddles with him in the horn pile and he remembers himself. The two of them are a carefully balanced pair, friends so close that they are there for each other no matter what.

Moirallegiance isn't just about calming down psycopaths, or else it wouldn't be something that every troll aspires to. It's about being a balancing force and support in someone else's life, and in return them being a balancing force and support in yours.

Equius and Nepeta are exceptional morails to one another. Karkat and Gamzee are very good moirails, and there's some evidence that Aradia and Sollux become decent moirails.

Feferi and Eridan were terrible moirails, because even though Eridan thought that he was helping and balancing Feferi, he wasn't doing very much of that, and she was wearing herself to the bone trying to rein him in.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Your telling me the same thing over and over (Moirials are an equal relationship) yet I keep bringing this point up:

How effective is a relationship thats supposed stop Trolls crazy people from going berserk if one can just quit if they get annoyed by them.

Crazy homicidal nasty people tend to be- you know: Crazy and nasty. How can you expect them to NOT be crazy and nasty. Thats the point! If they are not crazy and nasty then they don't need to be watched over!

Thats why I find it makes 0 sense for this to be an relationship where they can EXPECT to be equals.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

Trolls have innate maternal/paternal instincts that are never fully realized due to the fact that they do not raise their own young. as such they crave having somebody to take care of, and at the same time due to a lack of a parent, crave having somebody take care of them. Hense the need for moirails.

Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

So I'm attempting to register on fimfiction.net and I want a name that references homestuck. I'm using the first name of the OC my friend made for me, Cirrus, and something to go with it like a chumhandle.

Any suggestions/IDE's?

Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon

I still think that my Nuclear reactor analogy stands here. Even if the nuclear reactor doesn't seem to be acting up-You don't leave it alone.

But I should try not to think about it because everything about trolls breaks apart into little tiny pieces if you think about it.

I think the former is objectively wrong because like all relationships, troll and human alike, it has to be mutually beneficial. It's two reactors keeping each other from melting down. The fact that someone can break off means that it simply didn't work, exactly like any other relationship. To say that's a flaw is like saying that reality is flawed because unwanted outcomes can happen. Hell, the fact that the nuclear reactor problem exists is a flaw. But it comes down to the simple fact that not all problems can be fixed all the time.

The latter only happens because no matter what you are a human with incomplete information. You cannot reach any conclusion but, "It works for them *shrug*"

@^: Not to be rude but that's a rather annoying endeavor. It's a draining excercise to no end on a atm narratively irrelevant detail. It works fine enough within the story to presenta conflict.