Uniqueness1. The location is unique for CC - no English Channel maps2. The concept of having a treasury to build the navy3. This battle has not previously been attempted 1. What is your map about?This map attempts to provide some overview of the frauted invasion of England by the Spanish in 1588 2. Why are the events taking place? The attempted invasion is part of the Religious Wars between Protestant England and Catholic Spain - aided by both Protestant and Catholic sides in the Netherlands.3. Who are the characters in the map? The principle characters (and fleets) belong to Elizabeth I of England and Philip II of Spain. Each side has 6 generals (2 on land) with Shields/Coats of Arms as indicators on the map.4. Where does it take place? The battle mainly takes place in the English Channel (although this map has factional sides operating from the Netherlands also).5. When does it take place? June to September 1588How will the events unfold? Naturally, players will attempt to wipe each other out by maneuvering through the playable spaces.

Gameplay:Players naturally battle conquer neutrals to activate bonuses, and then can fight over battle grounds as marked in the bonus section.A feature of gameplay for any player starting on the British areas is the lighting of the land beacons, and subsequent gaining of the bonuses. Beacons can be lit only from open-top squares or from one-way arrows from another beacon.

Impassable are the blue areas of sea as marked; trees, and non-white sections of the command vessels.

SS = Supply Ship

LB = Land Base

LA - Land Army

M = Monarch

T = Treasury

The Treasury squares are named based on the owner (shield at top of column) and level of treasury conquered i.e. Medrano +1T,+3T,+4T,+5T

The Monarch square is named based on the owner (shield at top of column) and +1M

All other vessels and territories have their own names - classic style, with Command Vessels occupying two territories Bow and Stern

Each player's Monarch territory can assault sideways to build-up their treasury.

Treasury units (armies) can assault (and fort):

sideways one-way (to build bonuses)from any treasury square to same player's Command Vessel (both Bow and Stern)from any treasury square to same player's Supply Shipfrom any treausry square to same player's Land Base (if applicable)

Each Command Vessel:

must hold both Bow and Stern of each vessel to gain that Bonusfrom both Bow and Stern, can assault adjacent regions any player's Monarch square

The Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and either bow or stern of a Command Ship will be eliminated

Starting Numbers:

There are 229 (i think from preliminary xml count) territories on this map - outside the golden number range. However, most of these will start neutral, with the exception of the starting territories. Starting Neutrals: 181On the Monarch and Treasury seection, neutrals are 6,5,7,8,9 respectively - these once conquered provide the armies (money) to bolster your conquering abilities.On the map, neutrals are mostly 1, with the exception of 2s to help balance gameplay by making it harder to conquer command ships early in the game.

There are 4 starting territories per player and there is a range of 12 players on this map.

Aims/design style: The influence for this map was to enhance the sea warfare maps (for those fans/players) on CC. I also have a great interest in this period of English history which is being expanded while i discover the influences of the French Calvinists and the Massacre at Paris of St Batholomew's Day. The design is somewhat already in place with the heavy English Tudor border featuring the English Rose in wood colours. With the exception of the blue sea, all colours should revolve around those from the border.

Versions & Initial Draft:Only Versions 2,5, 7 and 9 are available before re-design.

Overall, the map is quite bland in gameplay. There aren't any substantial bonuses, aside from the simple territory bonus and the weak beacon bonus. The only real gameplay feature here is the attack routes.

For the attack routes, no need to have an elaborate explanation like yours, just say each square can attack with range 2, it's the same thing

I noticed you put "Bombardments - To be discussed" on the map. I'm wondering if maybe you could do something like "squares assault with range 1 and bombard with range 2" so it's like, you can only sail into an adjacent square, but you can fire your cannons farther.

Could you elaborate on the starting positions? Because, if everyone starts in the same general place, people aren't going to venture out into the open, especially if there's no compensation for doing so. People will likely just go for the early elimination.

The beacons seem slightly out of place due to the lack of gameplay elsewhere, but I see their legitimacy. The bonus is awful small for it to be worth it, since there's no way out of the chain of one-ways (or so I've understood it to be) all troops spent on that chain are lost, essentially. I suggest making it a +X per Y beacons lit. So, I'm thinking +1 per 2, +7 for all. If you'd prefer it to be lower, you could do +1 per 3, +5 for all, as well.

Is there supposed to be a difference between the white-outlined blue squares, the orange-outlined blue territories, and the orange-outlined orange territories?

I'm not sure either objective you've listed will necessarily work, I'm afraid. I just don't see how they could work as it stands.

To summarize my thoughts, I think it needs a lot of work, but it has a lot of potential.

Overall, the map is quite bland in gameplay. There aren't any substantial bonuses, aside from the simple territory bonus and the weak beacon bonus. The only real gameplay feature here is the attack routes.

For the attack routes, no need to have an elaborate explanation like yours, just say each square can attack with range 2, it's the same thing

thanks Sully for some ideas.Not perfect yet, but i have added some supply ships, lead vessels, and battles for bonuses.The attack route thing i'd prefer to leave as a graphic, just so that i am not asked for it later. Perhaps i'll need to do one for the bombardments also later.

I noticed you put "Bombardments - To be discussed" on the map. I'm wondering if maybe you could do something like "squares assault with range 1 and bombard with range 2" so it's like, you can only sail into an adjacent square, but you can fire your cannons farther.

That's on the map now, but may need adjusting later.

Could you elaborate on the starting positions? Because, if everyone starts in the same general place, people aren't going to venture out into the open, especially if there's no compensation for doing so. People will likely just go for the early elimination.

Starting positions...as always up for grabs. Now there are some bonuses on the sea that would improve movement incentive.Land bonuses need placement, and i'm thinking resources scattered throughout the land for that...to be added.

The beacons seem slightly out of place due to the lack of gameplay elsewhere, but I see their legitimacy. The bonus is awful small for it to be worth it, since there's no way out of the chain of one-ways (or so I've understood it to be) all troops spent on that chain are lost, essentially. I suggest making it a +X per Y beacons lit. So, I'm thinking +1 per 2, +7 for all. If you'd prefer it to be lower, you could do +1 per 3, +5 for all, as well.

Changed. I think we can discuss the x for y lit amount later again, but for now it is there.

Is there supposed to be a difference between the white-outlined blue squares, the orange-outlined blue territories, and the orange-outlined orange territories?

Yes, that is stated now what they are...i am thinking there could be a bonus structure associated wth them also, you know 15 for +5 or something similar.

I'm not sure either objective you've listed will necessarily work, I'm afraid. I just don't see how they could work as it stands.

To summarize my thoughts, I think it needs a lot of work, but it has a lot of potential. -Sully

The objective has been removed for now and left as Invade England. Perhaps it can be re-instated later, see what the people think.

cairnswk wrote:Thanks tB...Some ships have been added as bonuses to the Channel. Assault adjacent squares is there, but bombardment for 2 is there also.The battles have also been addded. Thanks for great ideas.

looking good.

- maybe battle sites are a little too big?- maybe add one more named ship and delete supply ships?- what about when only ships (squares of ships) could bombardment for 2?

Victor Sullivan wrote:Could you elaborate on the starting positions? Because, if everyone starts in the same general place, people aren't going to venture out into the open, especially if there's no compensation for doing so. People will likely just go for the early elimination.

cairnswk wrote:Starting positions...as always up for grabs. Now there are some bonuses on the sea that would improve movement incentive.Land bonuses need placement, and i'm thinking resources scattered throughout the land for that...to be added.

hi cairnswkyou choose a nice bit of history hereinitial graphics greattheme: you choose to put the accent on the last part of the sea campaign not just the battle which is a very original approachbut your gameplay isn't going with ityou try a similar two side gameplay as in arms race but there you have the mean to cross the gap between the two part (+60 bonus)and the way to reach the other side is relatively short compared to your mapmaybe you should rethink your starting position set-upwhat about Spanish ships and maybe also some British land territories behind the battle zoneson the other hand I know you are wishing to keep some historical time line...?

pamoa wrote:hi cairnswkyou choose a nice bit of history hereinitial graphics great

thanks pamoa

theme: you choose to put the accent on the last part of the sea campaign not just the battle which is a very original approachbut your gameplay isn't going with ityou try a similar two side gameplay as in arms race but there you have the mean to cross the gap between the two part (+60 bonus)and the way to reach the other side is relatively short compared to your mapmaybe you should rethink your starting position set-upwhat about Spanish ships and maybe also some British land territories behind the battle zoneson the other hand I know you are wishing to keep some historical time line...?

Pamoa, i've done this image to try to explain what i was hoping to achieve with gameplay.yes i want to achieve some historical time line...in particular the spanish should be able to work their way towards a goal of sorts where San Martin is, and that is why i have given such a broad avenue for whoever start down south to move through.Yes, i will have some british bonuses in there on England, just have to do some research on that.Also, i think perhaps a couple more small Spanish vessel bonuses would not go astray.Can you explain the "gap between the two parts" bit in your previous post a bit further please. I'm think i am only getting part of that.Also do you have some suggestions for the starting postiions.

Click image to enlarge.

Last edited by cairnswk on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Industrial Helix wrote:I feel like this one belongs over here. Glad to see someone is tryingto translate naval warfare into a CC map. I'll give it a more thorough look tonight.

IH, and others, knock your socks off.

New V4. with new gameplay (as noted in front notes)Players will start in the Treasury for each side. You can move up in the treasury to top to earn maximum bonus, (this slows the assaults at the start, and thus gains you extra armies if you desire such) or you can assault out of the treasury (with your current bonuses) from any point in your column to the relevent side's supply ships/land base. From there, it's all up to you how you proceed with gaining bonuses and conqeuring the map.Assault movement is in any direction one square.Bombardments are 2 squares in any direction from water-based sqaures only.Various bonuses are available for ships and battles and Fort Tilbury where Elizabeth had gathered an army.

Click image to enlarge.

Last edited by cairnswk on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hi cairns, you've made a great start here - reminds me of how I first felt with your early Das Schloss drafts!

The treasury starts/bonuses.... I'm not too sure how the "need/earn" bit relates to a bonus? As for the supply ships/land bases - would it be easier to make each treasury correspnd to a command vessel - so P12 could link to Duque Medina Sedonia, and so on.

I would prefer the beacons bonus to be something like +1/2 per 3 consecutive beacons (which is incredibly easy to do in the xml, by the way). I understand the desire to have them starting at Lands End, but for gameplay purposes I think it would be better to make them 2-way attacks (ie if the fleet were first seen at Southampton they would have lit the beacon there - they would not have sent a runner to Lands End )

Please could you put a tiny lighthouse at Beachy Head (you have an empty space at F22 to do so) - just google Beach Head lighthouse to see what it looks like... that would make me very happy

It would be beneficial if there were some small numerals along the bottom edge of the map to correspond to the columns. I don;t think you need to do each one, but perhaps every 5 would be OK.. just to make it easier to find the corresponding grid reference.

PB: 2661 | He's blue...If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that

MrBenn wrote:Hi cairns, you've made a great start here - reminds me of how I first felt with your early Das Schloss drafts!...Please could you put a tiny lighthouse at Beachy Head (you have an empty space at F22 to do so) - just google Beach Head lighthouse to see what it looks like... that would make me very happy

It would be beneficial if there were some small numerals along the bottom edge of the map to correspond to the columns. I don;t think you need to do each one, but perhaps every 5 would be OK.. just to make it easier to find the corresponding grid reference.

thanks MrBenn.Those above have already been done on the next version. the lighhouse looks quite good, i'm sure you'll be pleased.To think of that also, is there any other little "obstructions" in the channel that could be used?Thanks for you other thoughts, i'll see what the others have to add also.

[quote="MrBenn"The treasury starts/bonuses.... I'm not too sure how the "need/earn" bit relates to a bonus? As for the supply ships/land bases - would it be easier to make each treasury correspnd to a command vessel - so P12 could link to Duque Medina Sedonia, and so on.[/quote]

yes I feel else it would be better pile up and wait for someone stupid enough to spend his armies attacking neutral territories and then wipe him out

second very important point you should be able to kill those starting territories else it is an unendable map like Das Schloss was initially

btw if you go that way of unique starting position also look at King's court they also had a hell of gameplay adjustment to do

MrBenn wrote:The treasury starts/bonuses.... I'm not too sure how the "need/earn" bit relates to a bonus? As for the supply ships/land bases - would it be easier to make each treasury correspnd to a command vessel - so P12 could link to Duque Medina Sedonia, and so on.

yes I feel else it would be better pile up and wait for someone stupid enough to spend his armies attacking neutral territories and then wipe him out

second very important point you should be able to kill those starting territories else it is an unendable map like Das Schloss was initially

btw if you go that way of unique starting position also look at King's court they also had a hell of gameplay adjustment to do

go cairns go

Bugger, OK, i get the idea now with what MrBenn is saying about assualting to an individual vessel from the treasury. thanks pamoa for pointing that out to me.

as for killing the treasury....1. perhaps opposing treasuries could be assaulted by any commander positions 2. t'would be better if those treasury positions were killer neutrals after a number of turns, although i don't know if that capability is in the current xml.

DiM wrote:i see you have supply ships even on land. so maybe rename those terits to supply centres?

also i have no idea where ft tilbury is. i mean if i look at the legend i see it is a 4square terit but when i look at the actual map i see the name but no terits are highlighted

Supply centres...done next versionft tilbury, mmmm seems the indicator has got lost among the layers, i'll fix it.thanks Dim.

MrBenn wrote:The treasury starts/bonuses.... I'm not too sure how the "need/earn" bit relates to a bonus? As for the supply ships/land bases - would it be easier to make each treasury correspnd to a command vessel - so P12 could link to Duque Medina Sedonia, and so on.

yes I feel else it would be better pile up and wait for someone stupid enough to spend his armies attacking neutral territories and then wipe him out

second very important point you should be able to kill those starting territories else it is an unendable map like Das Schloss was initially

btw if you go that way of unique starting position also look at King's court they also had a hell of gameplay adjustment to do

go cairns go

Bugger, OK, i get the idea now with what MrBenn is saying about assualting to an individual vessel from the treasury. thanks pamoa for pointing that out to me.

as for killing the treasury....1. perhaps opposing treasuries could be assaulted by any commander positions 2. t'would be better if those treasury positions were killer neutrals after a number of turns, although i don't know if that capability is in the current xml.

Maybe losing conditions would work here? If you had players start out with more than just the treasury territories, you could set the non-treasury territories as losing conditions (meaning you must hold at least one non-treasury territory or you're eliminated). That way, you need not have something assault the treasury if you decide you don't want anything to. Sadly, point 2 as you described is not possible with the current XML Along with this, are players able to assault sideways/east-west in the treasuries? I would think not, but I figured I'd ask.

Thirdly, make sure your squares are at least 20 pixels high, as the 88s are around 10 pixels high, and I'll likely have to alternate the coordinates, as you have for the S's and whatnot.

Victor Sullivan wrote:...Maybe losing conditions would work here? If you had players start out with more than just the treasury territories, you could set the non-treasury territories as losing conditions (meaning you must hold at least one non-treasury territory or you're eliminated). That way, you need not have something assault the treasury if you decide you don't want anything to.

I knew i needed a good person on the job. That's a great idea Sully, for not assaulting the treasury, but because at present i have everyone starting on the treasury, doesn't that mean the losing condition comes into play automatically right at the very start of the game when no-one has a non-treasury territory anyway.

Sadly, point 2 as you described is not possible with the current XML

Along with this, are players able to assault sideways/east-west in the treasuries? I would think not, but I figured I'd ask.

no -> i guess i need to put that into the script

Thirdly, make sure your squares are at least 20 pixels high, as the 88s are around 10 pixels high, and I'll likely have to alternate the coordinates, as you have for the S's and whatnot.

Squares are 24 pixels square.i've just checked an existing game with the numbers and letters turned on...Numbers appear to be 12 pixels high, add the letter y g p in front and you blow out to 15 pixels high.That why i have them alternating upper and lower in the columns.

Fourthly, I don't understand which squares are single ships.

Top left of legend...although i do need to possibly change that script....perhaps Single Ships (on top to indicate a single square) with Hold 9 for + 2 (underneath)