I should preface this by expressing my undying love for Big Brother. XXXOOO

On Sept. 24th, agents of the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) raided the homes of several anti-war activists in Minneapolis and Chicago as well as North Carolina and Michigan at approximately 8:00 am central time. These raids are being conducted as part of an FBI sting operation carried out by the “Joint Terrorism Task Force” to harass arrest and detain peace activists across the country. This has resulted in federal search warrants being issued and SWAT teams being called upon to raid civilian homes. The FBI also distributed several subpoenas ordering the activists to testify before a federal grand jury on charges of “supporting terrorism” in October. Thus far, those raided have refused to speak to the FBI about their political views or organizing activities. The FBI is threatening to investigate them all on terrorism charges.

The most prominent victims of these investigations are Mick Kelly, a Minneapolis anti-war activist who announced his plans to protest the Democratic National Convention in 2010, and Jessica Sundin, one of the organizing leaders of the 10,000-strong 2008 march against the Republican National Convention. Both have denied being involved in any illegal activities. Raids were also carried out against Tracy Molm (Students for a Democratic Society in Minnesota) and Meredith Aby (Twin-Cities Anti-War Committee). Other names have not been disclosed. Among the activists and organizations targeted were the Twin-Cities Anti-War Committee, the Palestine Solidarity Group, Students for a Democratic Society, the Colombia Action Network and Freedom Road Socialist Organization. Many of the raided activists also helped to organize the successful anti-war protests at the Minneapolis RNC in 2008.

Supporters gathered at a press conference at 4:00 pm in front of one of the raided homes to protest and denounce the events of the morning, organized by the Anti-War Committee, Students for a Democratic Society and the Welfare Rights Committee. An article from Indymedia recalls one of the raids:

“Outside Hard Times Cafe, three unmarked black SUVs (one with an Illinois license plate) sat in the parking area as of 10am, when a lawyer observed 8 FBI agents sitting in the residence examining materials. Otherwise the scene was calm. Agents had broken in the door there at 7am Friday morning, breaking an aquarium in the process. The Federal search warrants appear to be focusing on seizing electronic devices, international travel, and allegeing “co-conspirators.” They do not authorize arrests. The search warrant for 1823 Riverside, the residence of activist Mick Kelly, sought information “regarding ability to pay for his own travel” to Palestine and Columbia from 2000 to today. The warrant hyped potential documents indicating any contacts/facilitation with FARC, PFLP, and Hezbollah – what it called “FTOs” or “foreign terrorist organizations”. It mentioned seeking information on the alleged “facilitation of other individuals in the US to travel to Colombia, Palestine and any other foreign location in support of foreign terrorist organizations including but not limited to FARC, PFLP and Hezbollah”. An FBI spokesman Steve Warfield confirmed that six Minneapolis homes were raided this morning.

The warant also sought information on “Kelly’s travel to and from and presence in MN, and other foreign countries [sic] to which Kelly has taveleled as part of his work in FRSO [Freedom Road Socialist Organization”, as well as materials related to his finances and the finances of FRSO, and all computer and electronic devices” (1).

Okay it's not exactly the FBI persecuting ant-iwar protesters in a dodgy anti-terror raid, but for those who do not keep up with the news - http://wikileaks.org/ has disgorged a second installment of leaked military documents:

"US and UK officials have insisted that no official record of civilian casualties exists but the logs record 66,081 non-combatant deaths out of a total of 109,000 fatalities."

"The first rule of censorship is that you cannot talk about censorship."

WikiLeaks: America Blacklisted Us, Screwed Up Funding

WikiLeaks funding has been cut off thanks to what Julian Assange calls financial warfare by the US government. In an email to Assange, Moneybookers, the company that collected donations for WikiLeaks, said it was closing WikiLeaks' account “following the recent publicity and subsequent addition of the WikiLeaks entity to blacklists in Australia and watchlists in the USA.”

Moneybookers’ decision came on Aug. 13, just days after the Pentagon publicly threatened reprisals against WikiLeaks. Moneybookers tells the Guardian that it “never had any request, inquiry, or correspondence from any authority regarding this former customer,” but couldn’t explain how that squared with the email’s mention of a blacklist. Assange, meanwhile, is furious. “This is likely to cause a huge backlash against Moneybookers,” the WikiLeaks founder predicts. “Craven behavior in relation to the US government is unlikely to be seen sympathetically.”

Granted. But just how successful have these supposed terrorists been in promoting fear? Seriously. The Times Square, Christmas Day and recent Parcel threats have all been ludicrous (and rather conveniently timed, in the latter instance). Then there are those persistently ominous al Quaeda broadcasts which bear no relation whatsoever to the reality of the situation. The worlds most wanted man is living comfortably with his family in Pakistan, and with all of our intelligence and resources, we are apparently powerless?

We need hyperbole. We need villains. Without these diversions our imperialist agendas might seem less tasteful.

I suppose it's a moot point arguing just who exactly is responsible for any associated panic - the government, media or "terrorists".

I suspect the endless conflict(s) we are engaged in are not profitless. There may be no forseeable resolution, but there are substantial gains to be had by these maraudings. Munitions and re-construction contracts, mining rights, accrued taxes from military personnel, private security, supply and logistics etc. etc. War is big business.

Many nations have lost certain freedoms post 9/11. A cynic might suggest that something of that nature is every governments wet dream - a tangible excuse to tighten their control on the populace.

HST had a wonderful grasp of this ballyhoo. Startled by a noise outside, he fires his shotgun into the darknes - in the general direction of his Peacocks. The terrorists. They're out there - they're stealing our oil!

Maybe people are afraid - of ghosts and media bogey men. Who knows? Gun sales doubled in California after the '69 August 9 - 10 double event. From my perspective though, the government is far more likely to inconvenience us than some Jihadist.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that bin Laden is a paid operative of the US? He has definitely served its interests

I'm positively giddy. This is the first really promising conflict I've witnessed in all my days. Still keeping an eye on Burma. Fingers crossed.

Quote:

"If the warmongering South Korean puppets fail to return to their senses and commit another reckless military provocation, our army will carry out second and third rounds of powerful physical retaliatory strikes without hesitation."

The warning came as the US and South Korean navies plan to hold a four-day naval exercise in the Yellow Sea from Sunday that will involve a strike group headed by aircraft carrier the USS George Washington.

Quote:

South Korea also said on Thursday it would "sharply increase military forces, including ground troops, on the five islands in the Yellow Sea and allocate more of its budget toward dealing with North Korea's asymmetrical threats".

As much as I wish we could stay out of this one, it doesn't look like the US will be able to. I don't know why you would be so excited by this Simon. This is not something that the US needs. The US, these people, CAN NOT afford another war and especially one that would be as horrible as this one would turn out to be. This would make Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan look like policing actions, all combined.

The ONLY thing that might come out of this that could be good, would possibly be that the US may have to start manufacturing our own goods again. The industrial/manufacturing age may have to return to some degree and that would be a plus. Would we stop importing from China? I can only hope!!

Some wars should be fought. We may not want to pay the price, but wanting and needing are two different things.

Hegemonic conflicts are brewing everywhere, and in the current political climate they are largely growing unchecked. In a way, the little sparks that set off these conflicts are welcome events in that they force the hand of the decision makers.

No one doubts the U.S. ability to take on any and all enemies in any conflict. This conflict may not look very tempting right now, but it could represent a welcome shot in the arm to the U.S. economy.

_________________________
"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

I completely understand what you're saying SkaffenAmtiskaw. I know that this country "can't" afford another war but that doesn't mean that we don't "need" another one. This one could change many things, both good and bad.

I've been reading up on this whole situation with North and South Korea. I've spoken to many people that have also been following the situation. Whatever happens it will force hands that have needed to be forced, but that doesn't mean I want them to be forced. My main concern is with the nuclear weapons because I can see either China or North Korea using them without even batting an eye. They don't care enough about their own people, so why care about anyone else?

I can see many things that have needed to change that will change because of this conflict, things like the US manufacturing and Industrial industries. We need those things to start to grow and develop again. We need to stop importing everything and anything, start manufacturing again, and I can see that happening. That could very well be a BIG plus. Perhaps the one thing I really do hope for in all of this is, that the US breaks free from the dependency we currently have on goods from China. Their products are killing us, in more ways than one.

What else does concern me, is that our own military is stretched everywhere around this globe and that could be a VERY bad thing should this squirmish escalate very rapidly. If we move the majority of our troops there, this could leave us wide open to attacks here if our boarders aren't restricted, or even closed. IF we leave even part of our troops any where else, they could be left open to even more attacks because they won't be "covered" like they should. Our officials can play out all the military games they want, but this could make it very ugly for a very long time. More costly than they can imagine and not just with money, but with lives as well. I wonder how many other people (average Joes) have thought about the "long term" affects, looking well past the immediate threat of war with the likes of North Korea and China.

My understanding is that North Korea doesn't have much to lose, and China doesn't really care what it loses. That can make for a very determined opponent, willing to put everything on the line, costs (financially and human lives alike) be damned.

It's taking too long... I had hoped N. Korea might've sunk the George Washington, and sent us all to the devil. Guess they lack the balls. Now I'm deflated. Where the hell is my nuclear holocaust???

Militarily we are overextended, the nation is vulnerable. That is the penalty for playing "Peacekeeper" (read: Pirate, Marauder, Assassin, Thief). But I doubt the US is going to engage a foreign party in a ground-war on home soil. Ever. If there is a serious conflict, it will be waged from a distance. Think Red Alert/Strangelove.

I've never been an idealist. I do not hope for a better future. History has shown us for what we are: febrile, malicious, arrogant and stupid. There is a lovely symmetry to all of this. I cannot imagine a more fitting end... I wait and hope, feebly.

"I've never been an idealist. I do not hope for a better future. History has shown us for what we are: febrile, malicious, arrogant and stupid. There is a lovely symmetry to all of this. I cannot imagine a more fitting end... I wait and hope, feebly."

Geeze, another one with a death wish. I have no plans on dying. I don't wish for a nuclear holocaust either.

If you really want things to end, think you are your own god,and don't believe in an afterlife, what are you waiting for? Create your own end, and bring the silence to yourself.

Whatever, next....

Morgan

_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear Fuck em if they can't take a jokeDon't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass

So ask this simple question [in the case of N/S Korea, China, the US, anywhere else]: Who would benefit financially from a war, when, where, and for how long? Anything else is basically window-dressing: PSYOP to excite the masses as required.

If you're gonna call yourself a Satanist, think like one all the time.

I'm with you 100%. The only reason I started this thread was to gain a general impression of how others view these transparent posturings.

And thank you for sharing The Occult Technology of Power. I had not heard of it.

Morgan - Knowing Simon as I do, he seems to have been channeling Jack D. Ripper (I'm amazed there was no reference to our "precious bodily fluids").

On occasion he has indicated by way of correspondance that he fears death as much as his next bowel movement. He smokes cigars, rides motorcycles like a madman and conducts "swift, lucrative and risky" business arrangements - whatever that entails .

Overall, I doubt it's a death wish. Perhaps an enthusiasm. There is a difference.

It's taking too long... I had hoped N. Korea might've sunk the George Washington, and sent us all to the devil. Guess they lack the balls. Now I'm deflated. Where the hell is my nuclear holocaust???

You didn't answer my question, but that's no surprise. Again, this time without any input from myself. Why would you even hope for something like this? And now a second question that has sprung forth. How would you personally benefit from a war that would include China, North Korea, South Korea, and the US?

China's economy as well as the US' and several other Western countries depend upon each other. It's not fiscally responsible to go to war with the country whose debt is spurring your own rapid growth. China may not be our 'buddy' but they're not fools either.

China's economy as well as the US' and several other Western countries depend upon each other. It's not fiscally responsible to go to war with the country whose debt is spurring your own rapid growth. China may not be our 'buddy' but they're not fools either.

The U.S.A. and China are already having a mini-war - about the competitive valuation of their respective currencies, which rather sets the pace of the former's mad race towards socialism and the latter's mad race towards capitalism. Neither has the time, budget, or patience for this Korean sideshow right now.

My forecast is that the U.S. will spank South Korea and China will spank North Korea, and they will go back to just mooning each other across the 38th Parallel.

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...

Here follows a recent blog link post I made on the subject which was created a few days before the Wikileaks cabals hit the internet about China-North Korea which suggests China may abandon North Korea. It is my belief though that when it comes to the crunch China will support North Korea in a war, and the cabals are only the product of conversations with a few ranking officials in China, which should be treated as subjective opinion rather than official positions on the part of China to North Korea. http://thesocietyoflucifer.blogspot.com/2010/11/chess-game-in-koreas.html

_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

I wasn't being rude. The question snuck by. Divided attention, overstimulatuion, ADD. Call it what you will.

Quote:

Why would you even hope for something like this?

Okay, all humour aside, let's call it the end of hegemonic domination, lawlessness, and the illusion of safety.

I take no sides, though I will advance or condemn either/both as it suits me. It is only when we take an abstraction to its zenith that we can finally bury it.

Fair enough, ADD it is.

I understand what you are talking about when you say that "the end of hegemonic domination, lawlessness, and the illusion of safety." However, there will never be an end to any of those things, especially in a nuclear war. Someone always has to have something bigger, better and more dangerous/threatening. Those with the bigger nukes will control. Let's be serious here, though. Those things will all be played out in reality and that will be the difference. It'll no longer be talk. I'm not up to seeing if the entire world turns into something like Chernobyl because two countries can't get along.

You can condemn/advance whatever way you feel, but none of it will matter if your skin is falling off because they decided to test the "nuclear war" waters. I'm not up to watching my boys pay that kind of price for this kind of bullshit in another country.

Originally Posted By: Simon Jester

Quote:

How would you personally benefit from a war that would include China, North Korea, South Korea, and the US?

I'll not elaborate on all of my dealings, but I do own shares in Rio Tinto, BP, Exxon Mobil, British American Tobacco etc. I gain financially.

Your financial gain won't benefit you much if you die along with it. None of that shit will matter when the people you count on to keep those moneys high are dead. You are but an "average Joe" that hasn't thought beyond the immediate.

You won't understand the full affects of nuclear war until it directly affects you long term and by then you'll be dying along with the hundreds of thousands others. Your immediate gain was all for naught.

Something that has baffled me since the day I watched Iraq being bombed. I heard so many Americans cheering it all on, awed by our military power. The aftermath shown over and over, day after day. It was an incredible site to watch, I must admit. Then reality in my own world set in again. I wondered how much of all those bombings and those that followed the next few years was going to affect other things, even the weather patterns. I wondered where all the energy was going from each bomb blast and what kind of damage it was going to do well beyond Iraq.

Now, I know that no one seems to have made a connection between events like a war, and our weather patterns across the globe and there is a point to what I'm getting at. So, please follow along for a moment and you'll see what I meant when I stated about your financial gain not mattering in the long term.

The summer of 2003 we bombed the shit out of Iraq, the energy from those bombs not only affecting the ground and the humans they hit, but the air and atmosphere around the bombings. The summers of 2004 and 2005 we saw more hurricanes, recording the 3rd and MOST active hurricane seasons, respectively. A little note of interest, Katrina happened in 2005. Do we really think this was all just from weather system changes and not directly affected by what was happening in Iraq through out those years? The bomb explosions have continued for a long time, and our weather patterns have shifted significantly. So where did all that energy really go from those bombings? Do a little research, and you will find that the next few years after a significant war, we've had increased weather pattern changes including but not limited to hurricanes, snow fall, droughts, storm patterns, etc. It's true.

What I'm getting at is, if we have a nuclear war, do you honestly think that any government will be able to protect us from the fall out? Will they be able to contain it so that it doesn't reach our water systems, our food systems (both livestock and veggies), the air, the weather systems? Do you really think that you won't be affected directly in a negative manner? Talk about a false sense of security. Chernobyl will be nothing compared to what will really happen if these 4 countries, and those that follow in step, play out their war games to the maximum. Your moneys be damned because it won't mean shit if you're dead or dying.

Now, again, "How would you personally benefit from a war that would include China, North Korea, South Korea, and the US?" Step beyond the "average Joe" thinking for a minute and answer this with more perspective than the immediate. I'll be willing to bet you can't. You'd better at least hope it doesn't reach using nuclear weapons, and that this war doesn't affect other systems like it seriously could and would in the long term. Keep in mind that if the nukes are blown up over open waters, the fall out is dispersed in the air and water. Good that it didn't hit land, but bad because we now have nuclear radiation in the water systems and atmosphere. Think well beyond, because nuclear war is exactly where this could progress to, especially with North Korea being the desperate country wanting to control the seas and wanting to take over South Korea. They have much to gain, including South Korea's established economy.

By the way, if I were you, I'd take my money out of British Tobacco and any other tobacco company immediately. The "smoker" is a dying breed and with the next phase of taxing, they are quiting left and right. Even the "old timers" are quiting. Find a new investment as quick as possible.

The U.S.A. and China are already having a mini-war - about the competitive valuation of their respective currencies, which rather sets the pace of the former's mad race towards socialism and the latter's mad race towards capitalism. Neither has the time, budget, or patience for this Korean sideshow right now.

My forecast is that the U.S. will spank South Korea and China will spank North Korea, and they will go back to just mooning each other across the 38th Parallel.

I hope you're right, although, from what I read this morning about China, it might just remain hope. China hasn't done much to reign in North Korea. Obama, on the other hand has at least made it clear that he's continuing as "scheduled" with things like the "war games"/practice in the water ways. At least he's standing firm on something, even if I don't like it.

I'm hoping Nemesis is right, and that China will let North Korea fight it's own fight. I don't think they will though. They don't like the idea of North Korea possibly losing their communism and won't "allow" an immediate country to be anything but controled by communism. The masses in North Korea are restless, tired and want a change, whatever that is and whatever cost that may come with. So we sit and watch....

I disagree with not investing in tobacco companies. A funny thing about most poor people is that even when lacking money to eat decently, they sure have money to smoke. The worse a crisis, the more people become poor; the more they'll smoke. The same goes for alcohol and drugs. Logic isn't the normal condition for humans. Take advantage of it.

I don't think N-Korea will go to war quickly. Sure they have nukes, most with the range capacity of a slingshot but besides some radioactive dust here and there, all they can take out is some neighbors. China has become capitalist and capitalists seldom are interested in starting a war that comes at the expense of their own income or targets their export market.

I grew up with the USSR-US nuclear holocaust scenario. It scared me as much as the China-US one.

I disagree with not investing in tobacco companies. A funny thing about most poor people is that even when lacking money to eat decently, they sure have money to smoke. The worse a crisis, the more people become poor; the more they'll smoke. The same goes for alcohol and drugs. Logic isn't the normal condition for humans. Take advantage of it.

I don't think N-Korea will go to war quickly. Sure they have nukes, most with the range capacity of a slingshot but besides some radioactive dust here and there, all they can take out is some neighbors. China has become capitalist and capitalists seldom are interested in starting a war that comes at the expense of their own income or targets their export market.

I grew up with the USSR-US nuclear holocaust scenario. It scared me as much as the China-US one.

It ain't gonna happen and if, it sure will be a blast.

D.

You might be right Diavolo. However, I have watched many, MANY people as of late quit. I, myself, am working on quiting. The thought that seems to be coming from most people is, "The government gets enough of my money. I'm not giving them any more." and I agree with this. I've cut back significantly and plan on putting them down before Christmas. I'm not rich by any means and most of the people I've spoken to are working souls like myself. We're not poor but we're not rich either. We're making it and tired of our money going out in more taxes. With packs here in Ohio going above $7.00, it'll be easier to put them down once and for all. Most of the younger adults I know are quiting or never smoked, so it'll be something of interest to watch, for myself anyways.

I have my doubts about N. Korea staying level headed. China, perhaps a bit better, but who knows. We've seen stranger things.

Do you really think that you won't be affected directly in a negative manner?

I hold no illiusions about my position in the world. I am mortal, and of little relevance in the overall scheme of things.

Quote:

Now, again, "How would you personally benefit from a war that would include China, North Korea, South Korea, and the US?" Step beyond the "average Joe" thinking for a minute and answer this with more perspective than the immediate. I'll be willing to bet you can't.

Giggle. ADD seems to be going around.

Alright then. That said... You may well be right. I doubt my ability to convey my position to anyone who holds a moral stance on these matters. I cannot relate to what I view as impossibly mundane concerns. I am not a "breeder". The futility of endlessly reproducing, generation after generation seems to be lost on most people.

My perspective and objectives are largely suprapersonal. I did think the business interests I listed may have adequately hinted at that. Furthermore, my entire career has cosisted of facilitating, in a modest way, the exploitation and destruction of the environment. That is my legacy.

The current nuclear stockpile of combined nations is more than sufficient to transform this planet into a wasteland. And however unlikely a prospect it may be, that, I believe, is the ultimate realisation of our true potential - of my "weltanschauung".

Quote:

By the way, if I were you, I'd take my money out of British Tobacco and any other tobacco company immediately. The "smoker" is a dying breed and with the next phase of taxing, they are quiting left and right. Even the "old timers" are quiting. Find a new investment as quick as possible.

Well, the share prices indicate the demand for this poison is still climbing. But don't worry - my speculation encompasses "other stuff" which is selling ferociously in impoverished areas.

I expect that most of you here would be aware of the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords that has seen five people killed and another thirteen injured in Arizona.

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik blamed the "vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it occurring in Arizona".

Quote:

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous"

Barack Obama called for the nation to come together after the shooting, saying that "such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society."

The government will not fail to capitalize on this event, and lay blame squarely at the feet of "dissenters" and "divisive politics". This is indeed fortuitous, and may provide the needed ammunition to snuff out Wikileaks and any other form of open political dialog.

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...

The "shooter" has a YouTube channel, and I could not resist but unleash a message to the channel knowing it would fall into the hands of the American authorities. I am so glad I am not American as I am very sure the FBI will be smashing my door down about now. Damn was I bad tempered yesterday.

Expect more shooting like this over the next two years, in a financial crisis with paranoia at its peak I can see more Americans taking out their guns and opening fire.

_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

The "shooter" has a YouTube channel, and I could not resist but unleash a message to the channel knowing it would fall into the hands of the American authorities. I am so glad I am not American as I am very sure the FBI will be smashing my door down about now. Damn was I bad tempered yesterday.

Expect more shooting like this over the next two years, in a financial crisis with paranoia at its peak I can see more Americans taking out their guns and opening fire.

Yes, cause we all know that all Americans are crazed lunatics and all go guns-a-blazing with their vast arsenal of weapons due to the 2nd Amendment.

Is that someone watching your living space outside?

_________________________In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.-Friedrich Nietzsche

Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...

Originally Posted By: JWG

Originally Posted By: mabon2010

The "shooter" has a YouTube channel, and I could not resist but unleash a message to the channel knowing it would fall into the hands of the American authorities. I am so glad I am not American as I am very sure the FBI will be smashing my door down about now. Damn was I bad tempered yesterday.

Expect more shooting like this over the next two years, in a financial crisis with paranoia at its peak I can see more Americans taking out their guns and opening fire.

Yes, cause we all know that all Americans are crazed lunatics and all go guns-a-blazing with their vast arsenal of weapons due to the 2nd Amendment.

First of all, the Daily Mail is hardly a rich source of unbiased information but no newspaper is.Members of the public frequently say they'd like to punch certain Members of Parliament and no-one cares; we just find it funny. They are only elected public servants after all. Eggs,flour, a strange blue powder which proved, disappointingly, to be poster paint have all been flung at MPs recently and used by comedians for material.This new(ish) government are, however, a bunch of two-faced bastards and will probably make egging a capital offence or something.As for her Majesty the Queen, she very graciously dismissed an uninvited guest from her bedchamber a few years ago. He was arrested but proved to be a harmless loony and Royal watcher so we let him go.

Personally if I was the target of people throwing things at me, even if it was something harmless, I too would be in favor of making it a “Capital Offense.” Or at least punishable by a hefty fine, and at least 30 days in the slammer. Second offense would be much more severe. Being in public office does not make a person a legitimate physical target for anything.

Anyhow, I think that the Secret Service does an excellent job. I had a run in with them twice, luckily not as their ‘suspect,’ but as an observer when they had to interview two of my psych patients. They presented themselves professionally, they were polite to everyone envolved, and even exhibited a sense of humor. During the interview of one psych patient who stated that he didn’t really mean to threaten the President and actually liked him, and then started to ramble on about space aliens, one of the agents must have noticed that I had great difficulty in keeping a straight face. Afterwards as I was escorting him off the ward he turned to me and asked, “So, do you have any objections to Space Aliens?” I told him that I wasn’t allowed to say, because they are always listening. We both got a good chuckle out of it.

We just never know when and off handed comment, even if made as a joke, isn’t merely the very tip of the iceberg of something much deeper and sinister brewing inside of someone. Even if only one in a hundred thousand is valid, it is still better to be over zealous in protecting the President then to be too flippant about it.

_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Personally if I was the target of people throwing things at me, even if it was something harmless, I too would be in favor of making it a “Capital Offense.” Or at least punishable by a hefty fine, and at least 30 days in the slammer. Second offense would be much more severe. Being in public office does not make a person a legitimate physical target for anything.

Hell, even not being in public office shouldn't matter, like you first stated. I've had to deal with vandalism, threats, etc. Teens around here think they're pretty bad ass because they ARE underage and have the mentality that no one can touch them. What's happened to this nice town is happening in lots of places and I wonder if it can ever be changed again. Even after they get into trouble with the law, they don't care and go about doing whatever they like. We've all seen a good example of what that kind of mentality produces (-Z-) where there aren't any personal boundries.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

Anyhow, I think that the Secret Service does an excellent job. I had a run in with them twice, luckily not as their ‘suspect,’ but as an observer when they had to interview two of my psych patients. They presented themselves professionally, they were polite to everyone envolved, and even exhibited a sense of humor. During the interview of one psych patient who stated that he didn’t really mean to threaten the President and actually liked him, and then started to ramble on about space aliens, one of the agents must have noticed that I had great difficulty in keeping a straight face. Afterwards as I was escorting him off the ward he turned to me and asked, “So, do you have any objections to Space Aliens?” I told him that I wasn’t allowed to say, because they are always listening. We both got a good chuckle out of it.

Oh stop! You know they aren't listening to everything. That would take way too many aliens away from doing experiments on perfectly good human subjects.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

We just never know when and off handed comment, even if made as a joke, isn’t merely the very tip of the iceberg of something much deeper and sinister brewing inside of someone. Even if only one in a hundred thousand is valid, it is still better to be over zealous in protecting the President then to be too flippant about it.

We've also seen too many times where following up or just letting someone go because they were just "weird" has cost innocent lives for no other reason then the ramblings of a mad man. I certainly wouldn't want it to be someone I cared about and loved because they were able to attend something like a Presidential speech. Yes, I'm selfish about it.

First of all, the Daily Mail is hardly a rich source of unbiased information but no newspaper is.Members of the public frequently say they'd like to punch certain Members of Parliament and no-one cares; we just find it funny. They are only elected public servants after all. Eggs,flour, a strange blue powder which proved, disappointingly, to be poster paint have all been flung at MPs recently and used by comedians for material.This new(ish) government are, however, a bunch of two-faced bastards and will probably make egging a capital offence or something.As for her Majesty the Queen, she very graciously dismissed an uninvited guest from her bedchamber a few years ago. He was arrested but proved to be a harmless loony and Royal watcher so we let him go.

That's great the everyone can laugh about it. The problem is, in that flour or poster paint could have been something much worse. Something that could have harmed many more people than just that single person. There are plenty of chemicals and bio-chemicals out there that could have killed way more than just those in that gathering.

If you've never read it, read up on how someone that inhales Anthrax dies. It's painful and would completely suck to be an innocent person exposed to it, for no other reason than someone being pissed off at an official.

I agree, they're lying bastards (politicians), but that doesn't give some loon the right to vandalize, threaten, throw projectiles, or take said politician's life either.

I hear dying in a car crash isn't a too swell experience either and the odds it will happen are far greater than inhaling anthrax through flour thrown at you. Still, I need to see the first real demand for a ban on cars.

People are too scared nowadays and for everything harmful that can happen to them, imaginary or not, the state needs to jump in and prevent it at all costs.

Being alive always was a risky business; you can't make it safe without losing the feeling you actually live.

So where would you draw the line? Tomatoes, flour, rice, dead birds are ok to throw, piss, shit, blood, corpses not?

What about the nut jobs who take it upon themselves to spray paint a persons fur coat? Is that ok too?Personally I would want to shove the paint can in their mouths and make them eat what's left in it....oh but then I'd be the bad guy

_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

I hear dying in a car crash isn't a too swell experience either and the odds it will happen are far greater than inhaling anthrax through flour thrown at you. Still, I need to see the first real demand for a ban on cars.

People are too scared nowadays and for everything harmful that can happen to them, imaginary or not, the state needs to jump in and prevent it at all costs.

Being alive always was a risky business; you can't make it safe without losing the feeling you actually live.

Man up dear satanists, man up.

D.

I understand what you're saying Diavolo. However, those scare tactics are real chemicals/bio-chemicals that have been used for these kinds of purposes.

Yes, shit happens. The sad part is that if someone was to fight back, that said person could just as well be prosecuted by our own judicial system. If the person that had their house shot up by the "bb drive by" actively sought out the person/s that shot up their house and beat the shit out of them, that person would then go to jail for assault. If they even so much as returned the favor and shot up the other person's belongings, they too would be arrested. As much as I'd like to say that Might is Right in this situation, in many cases it just results in legal troubles beyond the immediate satisfaction of getting even.

At least in a car accident, it's usually just that, an accident. There is a difference.

It's easy to say "Man up" when you or your family aren't the intended target/s. When you have more than ONE target to protect you tend to start looking at things a bit differently. Especially when you can't see your enemy but they've made themselves known to you, quite apparently.

Not at all but I'd not call the cops to have him arrested either. I'm perfectly capable of handling that myself.

As am I, but I have a affliction to jail, so....I'll call the cops, make them aware of the problem, and go from there should anything else happen.

Originally Posted By: Diavolo

To avoid it, I don't wear my red cape with the big "S" when attending ceremonies.

Someone would just think you were Superman anyways. You can't teach stupid.

Originally Posted By: Diavolo

I'm of the opinion that if you want to wear the crown, you have to accept the tomatoes too. So occasionally they get what they'd rather not have. Shit happens.

However, if you have something like the Secret Service at your disposal, why not at least make them work for their money? Do I sometimes think it's a waste of tax payer money? Hell, yeah. But they are there for a reason. Presidents have been killed, and it's usually by people that were thought to be "harmless". Never count anything out in today's society. It's proven that, over and over again.

So where would you draw the line? Tomatoes, flour, rice, dead birds are ok to throw, piss, shit, blood, corpses not?

What about the nut jobs who take it upon themselves to spray paint a persons fur coat? Is that ok too?Personally I would want to shove the paint can in their mouths and make them eat what's left in it....oh but then I'd be the bad guy

I understand that politicians and royalty have security when they go somewhere public. The probability of having someone attack them is bigger than zero. But I don't see the need in wasting others tax dollars investigating every negative word uttered by someone, or treating someone throwing a pie as a terrorist. Remember we all laughed when that guy threw shoes at Bush? Some of those are now demanding that should be regarded as identical to shooting bullets. What happened to create that change in thinking? Media-enforced drama.

I can't be bothered about politicians being bombed with flour, tomatoes or anvils. That's part of the job, part of the risk. I might find it funny or dumb or be totally indifferent but whatever the case, I will not stand in line or wave flags in favor of their protection. I think most are overly protected as is, even when it's nothing but a sweet illusion, and the more enforced security and safety people demand, the less freedom they'll end up with.

So personally I think people should be logical instead of emotional when it comes to "hot" or "scary" issues. Most aren't so hot or scary at all. But more often than not, they sure are an opportunity for those desiring more power.

It's easy to say "Man up" when you or your family aren't the intended target/s. When you have more than ONE target to protect you tend to start looking at things a bit differently. Especially when you can't see your enemy but they've made themselves known to you, quite apparently.

It can be scary when you are the target of others, especially when you have kids. But what most people forget is that such is always the case. Even when you feel safe, you aren't necessarily safe. Most people live in some sort of hyper-reality where everything seems to go according to plan and when it doesn't, it must.

We live rather comfortable lives not because life is safe or comfortable but because we are not interesting to those making it unsafe and uncomfortable. It is economic thinking; whenever the profit exceeds the risk, things become interesting. If they don't, most don't bother. As such, at any point in life one can become interesting enough to be prey.

The question is not as much how to avoid it (because more often than not we can't) as what to do when it happens. We can crawl under our beds and call 911, if we are so lucky, or we can make sure we get the bastards. Of course this comes at a risk too but when we're a bit intelligent about it, options and opportunities might arise. Often it takes not more than the very will to do what is needed.

So if someone threw blue color flour at you, for let's say being a Satanist, you would just shrug it off?

Blue's not my colour and, yes, I'd laugh it off because far worse things happen to members of the minority communities of which I am a member every day. Over the last two years this has included - perpetrated on my partner and close friends - two rapes; three attacks resulting in grievous bodily harm; 5 cases of harassment and intimidation and too-many-to-count instances of verbal abuse, spitting and thrown missiles such as beer cans and pebbles.

So . . . back to British politicians. While a single police officer is likely to be present when one goes walk-about amongst the public they are NOT entitled to any special protection and the officer will not be armed. MPs here are elected public servants and not treated differently from their constituents. We have the attitude that if you want to get into politics you need to be willing to stick your head above the parapet and face the flak.