My memory only goes back as far as the likes of Geoghegan and Ringland. Since then we've had Hickie, Earls, Bowe and others. But do any of these compare to Jacob Stockdale? His stats are off the charts for club an country. It dosen't matter who he's up against or where on the pitch he gets the ball, it's always on with this lad. So, is he the best we've ever had?

You know I'm going to lose,And gambling's for fools,But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

blockhead wrote:My memory only goes back as far as the likes of Geoghegan and Ringland. Since then we've had Hickie, Earls, Bowe and others. But do any of these compare to Jacob Stockdale? His stats are off the charts for club an country. It dosen't matter who he's up against or where on the pitch he gets the ball, it's always on with this lad. So, is he the best we've ever had?

A good question.Current answer would be along the lines of potentially yes.I didn't see him play but Tony O'Reilly (never saw him play) seems to have been the same style of winger and was apparently unreal. Still holds or once held the record for most tries scored on a lion's tour (late 1850s).I did see him play against England after he'd retired.Loads of funny stories about that one, a real ad for amateurism.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

He's a ridiculous talent alright. Hard to measure if he's our best ever. Bowe was probably a more rounded player for me and during his peak period was almost unplayable. Stockdale probably a better finisher but slightly worse in other parts of the game.

After just 14 caps, it is far too early to say on any front - attack or defence. The case for attack is easier to make with his stagerring strke rate of 86%, but it's too early to put him over the entire careers of significant others who had to work off much more meagre rations for a lot longer. He is playing on a team that has won 93% of his caps...partly due to him.

He has hardly had to defend...but when he has had to there have been plenty of heart-in-mouth moments. His defence is still a significant work-in-progress.

What I feel surest of is that he is making the very most of the attacking opportunities that come from playing on what is definitely Ireland's best ever team.

But Tony O'Reilly and Tommy Bowe are our best ever wingers as double-Test Lions.

O'Reilly only scored 4 tries for Ireland in 29 caps, a weak 14% strike rate, that was also a measure of the Irish team's abilities, which won 36% of the games he played. Like Stockdale, when he was on a strong team like the Lions, he scored 38 tries in 38 games on 2 tours - a 100% strike rate when the Lions won just 50% of their games! 16 tries in 15 games aged 19 in South Africa in 1955 and 22 tries from 23 games against New Zeland and Australia in 1959 at the ripe old age of 23. 6 tries in 10 Lions Tests. A 60% strike rate in Lions Tests is phenomenal

O'Reilly's Lions Test strike rate is matched by Bowe's with 3 tries from 5 tests. His Irish strike rate of 43% (30 tries in 69 caps) reflects a better, but still not stellar era for the national side with a win ratio of 56%.

backrower8 wrote:After just 14 caps, it is far too early to say on any front - attack or defence. The case for attack is easier to make with his stagerring strke rate of 86%, but it's too early to put him over the entire careers of significant others who had to work off much more meagre rations for a lot longer. He is playing on a team that has won 93% of his caps...partly due to him.

He has hardly had to defend...but when he has had to there have been plenty of heart-in-mouth moments. His defence is still a significant work-in-progress.

What I feel surest of is that he is making the very most of the attacking opportunities that come from playing on what is definitely Ireland's best ever team.

But Tony O'Reilly and Tommy Bowe are our best ever wingers as double-Test Lions.

O'Reilly only scored 4 tries for Ireland in 29 caps, a weak 14% strike rate, that was also a measure of the Irish team's abilities, which won 36% of the games he played. Like Stockdale, when he was on a strong team like the Lions, he scored 38 tries in 38 games on 2 tours - a 100% strike rate when the Lions won just 50% of their games! 16 tries in 15 games aged 19 in South Africa in 1955 and 22 tries from 23 games against New Zeland and Australia in 1959 at the ripe old age of 23. 6 tries in 10 Lions Tests. A 60% strike rate in Lions Tests is phenomenal

O'Reilly's Lions Test strike rate is matched by Bowe's with 3 tries from 5 tests. His Irish strike rate of 43% (30 tries in 69 caps) reflects a better, but still not stellar era for the national side with a win ratio of 56%.

If he keeps going at a decent rate he will be challenging Hickie & Horgan in a few years and over time has the potential to move into Bowe & O'Reilly territory.

Some amount of data in that post.

Oldschool wrote:

blockhead wrote:My memory only goes back as far as the likes of Geoghegan and Ringland. Since then we've had Hickie, Earls, Bowe and others. But do any of these compare to Jacob Stockdale? His stats are off the charts for club an country. It dosen't matter who he's up against or where on the pitch he gets the ball, it's always on with this lad. So, is he the best we've ever had?

A good question.Current answer would be along the lines of potentially yes.I didn't see him play but Tony O'Reilly (never saw him play) seems to have been the same style of winger and was apparently unreal. Still holds or once held the record for most tries scored on a lion's tour (late 1850s).I did see him play against England after he'd retired.Loads of funny stories about that one, a real ad for amateurism.

Just how old is Oldschool?He must be one of the Dúnedain, blessed with long life.

You know I'm going to lose,And gambling's for fools,But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!

Albeit his memory does appear to be catching up with him with the passing years:

Oldschool wrote:I didn't see him play but Tony O'Reilly (never saw him play) seems to have been the same style of winger and was apparently unreal. Still holds or once held the record for most tries scored on a lion's tour (late 1850s).I did see him play against England after he'd retired.

backrower8 wrote:After just 14 caps, it is far too early to say on any front - attack or defence. The case for attack is easier to make with his stagerring strke rate of 86%, but it's too early to put him over the entire careers of significant others who had to work off much more meagre rations for a lot longer. He is playing on a team that has won 93% of his caps...partly due to him.

He has hardly had to defend...but when he has had to there have been plenty of heart-in-mouth moments. His defence is still a significant work-in-progress.

What I feel surest of is that he is making the very most of the attacking opportunities that come from playing on what is definitely Ireland's best ever team.

But Tony O'Reilly and Tommy Bowe are our best ever wingers as double-Test Lions.

O'Reilly only scored 4 tries for Ireland in 29 caps, a weak 14% strike rate, that was also a measure of the Irish team's abilities, which won 36% of the games he played. Like Stockdale, when he was on a strong team like the Lions, he scored 38 tries in 38 games on 2 tours - a 100% strike rate when the Lions won just 50% of their games! 16 tries in 15 games aged 19 in South Africa in 1955 and 22 tries from 23 games against New Zeland and Australia in 1959 at the ripe old age of 23. 6 tries in 10 Lions Tests. A 60% strike rate in Lions Tests is phenomenal

O'Reilly's Lions Test strike rate is matched by Bowe's with 3 tries from 5 tests. His Irish strike rate of 43% (30 tries in 69 caps) reflects a better, but still not stellar era for the national side with a win ratio of 56%.

If he keeps going at a decent rate he will be challenging Hickie & Horgan in a few years and over time has the potential to move into Bowe & O'Reilly territory.

Some amount of data in that post.

Oldschool wrote:

blockhead wrote:My memory only goes back as far as the likes of Geoghegan and Ringland. Since then we've had Hickie, Earls, Bowe and others. But do any of these compare to Jacob Stockdale? His stats are off the charts for club an country. It dosen't matter who he's up against or where on the pitch he gets the ball, it's always on with this lad. So, is he the best we've ever had?

A good question.Current answer would be along the lines of potentially yes.I didn't see him play but Tony O'Reilly (never saw him play) seems to have been the same style of winger and was apparently unreal. Still holds or once held the record for most tries scored on a lion's tour (late 1850s).I did see him play against England after he'd retired.Loads of funny stories about that one, a real ad for amateurism.

Just how old is Oldschool?He must be one of the Dúnedain, blessed with long life.

Great info and young enough not to see Tony O'Reilly play when he was in his pomp.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

Tom Grace and Alan Duggan were excellent wings. They both were great finishers and scored some crucial tries for Ireland. Grace scored a shed load of non-test tries on the 1974 Lions tour when two of the best wings in the history of the game, Gerald Davies and JJ Williams, played in the tests. Duggan was in and out of the Irish team over a period of 10 years but he had a decent strike rate at a time when tries were less common than today.

Geoghegan was the business and would have been a superstar in the professional era.

enby wrote:Tom Grace and Alan Duggan were excellent wings. They both were great finishers and scored some crucial tries for Ireland. Grace scored a shed load of non-test tries on the 1974 Lions tour when two of the best wings in the history of the game, Gerald Davies and JJ Williams, played in the tests. Duggan was in and out of the Irish team over a period of 10 years but he had a decent strike rate at a time when tries were less common than today.

Geoghegan was the business and would have been a superstar in the professional era.

Alan Duggan was indeed an excellent winger. At a time when Irish wingers (regretfully- in particular) got about a half dozen good passes a season- forget about try-scoring chances, he had more than a good record. He was my first rugby hero.

Hickie or Geoghegan for me. Geoghegan was a shining light in probably the worst Ireland team in living memory. He was disgracefully not selected for the 93 Lions with Ian Hunter being picked in his place....Who????! Known as bambi on benzadrine, Geoghegan was so good that a place was reserved for him on the 97 Lions even though he hadn''t played for a year and despite playing in that terrible Ireland team that wouldn't have been adept at getting the ball to the wing!

Hickie was probably the last Irish winger to have blind pace and was defensively excellent.

Can definitely see Stockdale being a candidate going forward, he has been superb but he needs to do what he's been doing for seasons.

Pushing for that status at present but will have to keep improving on defence, he now has a lad here to push him as well which is good, the young lad Robert Balacombe looks like he could be snapping at his heels though perhaps he has not been analysed yet by oppositions which is aiding him, first match he was caught in defence, then he was too eager and got carded and banned but each time he has worked rapidly on his failings and improved which is good for a guy who was playing junior rugby. He has the talent and speed as well and I won't be surprised if they are both Irish wings in a year or two. Anyway Stockdale will score a few in the 6 Nations and as a dangerman to watch ties up opposition resources as you never know if he is going for a ball in hand run or doing a chip and chase