Eric Valdes Does this mean you're opening up the library and adding new music to the setlist? One can only dream lol8 · 12 hrs

Neal SchonNeal Schon Those that want to keep playing the same set as last 2 decades should leave. I have much more to offer from the 70s Journey

Eric J De Tolve Sometimes change is good! a guitar player of your high caliber needs challenge and not the same set list.There is a wealth of material that will sound fantastic once you dust it off! BravoNeal SchonNeal Schon Yes I've been saying this JC and Ross want to play the same list year after year. Zzzzz I saw Phish the other night in NY and dug that they play new tunes every night. That is where I'm heading

If this is Neal's opinion of the setlist I can see why management might side with Jon and Ross. If the band delves too deep at the expense of hits it will definitely hit the bottom line. Believe me when I say I would love nothing more than new Journey music and play it live. Delve deeper into the catalog and play longer sets. Get rid of the 3rd band and play at least 2 hours.

Having said this I was at the first show of the Generations tour in Irvine and they played a lot of new stuff and I was loving it, but I was not oblivious that people were leaving the show and people were starting to boo the band when they player another new song. It was hard to watch. By the end it was over half empty. The opening set of pre-Perry material didn't help either. I think that was my favorite part too. Never heard most of it live and Deen sang "Something to Hide" to perfection.

I agree with Neal but the problem is that the casual bandwagon Journey fans that pack the arenas and amphitheaters every tour are only there for the dirty dozen. They've snuck in some older more obscure stuff the last few times I've saw then and the crowd wasn't into it at all.

Unfortunately for Neal, this is the way things are. If he wants to make big money, and get the big venues, he has to play the Dirty Dozen. Some of us would be more than happy to have a lot of deeper cuts ( although not a whole show of pre-Perry 70's fusion rock), but there are not enough of us to make it worth while.

I realise Neal loves his long guitar solos, but if he loves his fans as much as he says he does, he should know that most of the casual fans want to hear the songs they know. When I went to see them 2 years ago, Neal opened with a 40 minute set of Vortex solos, and you could tell most of the crowd didn't have a clue what was going on. They were not interested in that music at all.

I think Neal is in for a big surprise if he thinks he can dump all the guys, keep the name Journey, or possibly JRNY, and tour with the kind of music he wants to play. The fans will stay away in droves, which is why Jon and Ross vote for the DD every year. They are in it for the money, yes, but that's also what the fans want to hear.

The injury that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance. Steve Perry

From Deen Castronovo regarding what's going on: "...I choose not to live in chaos and Drama. As an addict I thrived on it. It has no place in my life."

Those who are sycophantically jumping to Neal's defense may want to read between the lines of Deen's tweet. Is the implication here that Schon's behavior is symptomatic of an addict?

From the guitarist of Shinedown, Zach Myers (after Neal told him to F-off and Neal groupies piled on): ".... I know WAY more of the truth than you do ..... Considering I'm friends with over half that camp ... Carry on."

Zach later said he is on Neal's side of this fight.

"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater

Thank you friends and fans for your overwhelming support. You've made me feel loved and proud to be there every year for you all. I'll be back next year and it will be FRESHLY RESTORED GOD BLESS YOU ALL

Perry's good natured bonhomie & the world’s most charmin smile,knocked fans off their feet. Sportin a black tux,gigs came alive as he swished around the stage thrillin audiences w/ charisma that instantly burnt the oxygen right out of the venue.TR.com

Thank you friends and fans for your overwhelming support. You've made me feel loved and proud to be there every year for you all. I'll be back next year and it will be FRESHLY RESTORED GOD BLESS YOU ALL

Holy shit. Neal believes in God. Journey is ruined. I will never listen again!

perryfan61 wrote:Unfortunately for Neal, this is the way things are. If he wants to make big money, and get the big venues, he has to play the Dirty Dozen. Some of us would be more than happy to have a lot of deeper cuts ( although not a whole show of pre-Perry 70's fusion rock), but there are not enough of us to make it worth while.

I think Neal is in for a big surprise if he thinks he can dump all the guys, keep the name Journey, or possibly JRNY, and tour with the kind of music he wants to play. The fans will stay away in droves, which is why Jon and Ross vote for the DD every year. They are in it for the money, yes, but that's also what the fans want to hear.

Good post.

I feel like now that they have regained their popularity (even without Mr. P with them for 20 years), got inducted into the RRHOF and made more money than most of us can even dream about - that they should be well past the double and triple bills playing an 80-90min GH set. I don't know who that benefits other than a few wallets? It sure as shit doesn't help the legacy or thank the hardcore fans who quite honestly carried them in the late 90's and early 00's. I feel like Schon gets that latter point and Cain doesn't. I don't think Schon forgot where they were and who was with them at that point. Critics who said they were a tribute/cover band without Perry were wrong for a long time. They were writing new albums...even playing them live. They played deeper cuts that people weren't aware of or had forgotten. Now? Not so much. Playing the hits without Schon or Perry truly WOULD be a tribute/cover situation... and what could tarnish their legacy and brand more than that?

I think playing new music and deep cuts (mixed in with the hits) to 2k does more for the legacy now than opening for Def Leppard and playing 12 hits...no?

I think a good indication to see if Neal's fans are truly his fans is for Neal to get a group of guys in, reform Journey, and only play Pre-Cain stuff as well as any new material he would record with the new line up. Sink or swim time. If the new material is good, melodic, and catchy, then his version of the band will survive. We all know the Pre-Perry stuff is going to cater to a very select group of Journey fans who have been there since day one. The large majority of this band's fans came along either shortly after Perry became a part of the band, and soon after Escape was released.

No matter how hard Neal might try, there's going to be a certain amount of alienation on his behalf if he wants to move away from the dirty dozen. But, sometimes to "fix" things, you have to tear them down to rebuild them. You also have to be willing to live in a world where it's no longer 1983 and the band is something completely different. It's taking a leap of faith, but if Neal really wants his band back, this is what he's going to have to face.

There's a few popular Pre-Cain songs that will get a pop from the crowd. They can still play Don't Stop Believing and Separate Ways as an encore. But, I'm betting as long as the money is somewhat decent, Schon would rather avoid anything that has to do with Cain.

I think Neal could play whatever he wants with whoever he wants in dive bars for the rest of his life and still be quite comfortable financially. If you consider how old these guys are, there's really no "need" to keep raking in millions if it means playing songs they don't want to play with people who they don't want to play with. Let's say he puts together a new Journey with Gregg Rolie and plays 1,500 seat theaters for the rest of his career- I think he'll be perfectly fine and a lot happier for it.

"It's really important if you're going to remain a valid band that you play your new stuff. Otherwise you become a parody of what you started out doing." - Janick Gers of Iron Maiden

"Journey" (whoever that will be) going out and playing the pre-Cain stuff, to me, is a ridiculous notion. Get Greg in, cool. Do SOME of those. But if he thinks he's going to fill arenas with anything pre-Infinity, he's sadly mistaken.

Neal needs to work it out with THESE guys.Or break the band up.Or get Steve Perry and do something (NOT JOURNEY) together.Or have it be "The Neal Schon Band" where he can go out and play great stuff from all eras of Journey, Schon and Hammer, Late Nite, etc, etc.... and fill places 1/4 of the size of what he's doing now. This is no slam on Neal. But fans know "JOURNEY". They don't know anybody else but Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda these days.

The entire band needs to take a year off. Get their feet back on the ground again and stop fanning the flames (Neal), and decide how to move forward.

His "restored my faith" post from yesterday... those are posts on NEAL'S FB page. Of course your fans are going to come to your defense on Facebook. On other members' pages, the fans aren't too happy about what's going on, especially with the slams toward Arnel. I'm noticing that JC's fans are taking it as "Neal hates Jesus" or some crap, but that's only a few.

JourneyHard wrote:Set List with Gregg Rolie back in Journey:1. Of A Lifetime2. Separate Ways3. Stone In Love4. Change For The Better5. Lights6. Stay Awhile7. Escape8. Feelin' That Way9. Anytime10. Keep on Runnin'11. Too Late12. Just The Same Way13. Gonna Leave You 14. Edge Of The Moment15. Blues Magic16. Who's Cryin' Now17. Walk Like A Lady18. Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin19. Wheel In The Sky20. Any Way You Want It21. Don't Stop Believin'

I am appreciating Neal even in his helicopter mode he is getting it across to me because MERCY WTF has happened to his band! I truly hope the other members aren't blinded by the light of money and celebrity and that includes Arnel. I would hope the WH visit was a God like "intervention" to shake the sillies out of some people, specifically one member who is walking around in a fog thinking he has found the answer to his prayers but truly God puts thing right in front of you, beside you, over and beneath you until you open your eyes and sees the light of what is going on in your life. The answer has always been within not told to you by another or read in a book or propheticized by false prayer, the truth is so bright and undeniably illuminating. So I hope things shake rattle and roll back into some semblance of truth and reality of what it means to be a Christian.

brywool wrote:"Journey" (whoever that will be) going out and playing the pre-Cain stuff, to me, is a ridiculous notion. Get Greg in, cool. Do SOME of those. But if he thinks he's going to fill arenas with anything pre-Infinity, he's sadly mistaken.

Neal needs to work it out with THESE guys.Or break the band up.Or get Steve Perry and do something (NOT JOURNEY) together.Or have it be "The Neal Schon Band" where he can go out and play great stuff from all eras of Journey, Schon and Hammer, Late Nite, etc, etc.... and fill places 1/4 of the size of what he's doing now. This is no slam on Neal. But fans know "JOURNEY". They don't know anybody else but Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda these days.

The entire band needs to take a year off. Get their feet back on the ground again and stop fanning the flames (Neal), and decide how to move forward.

His "restored my faith" post from yesterday... those are posts on NEAL'S FB page. Of course your fans are going to come to your defense on Facebook. On other members' pages, the fans aren't too happy about what's going on, especially with the slams toward Arnel. I'm noticing that JC's fans are taking it as "Neal hates Jesus" or some crap, but that's only a few.

WhattaMess

He's never stated that he plans on filling arenas with pre-Infinity material.

"It's really important if you're going to remain a valid band that you play your new stuff. Otherwise you become a parody of what you started out doing." - Janick Gers of Iron Maiden

brywool wrote:"Journey" (whoever that will be) going out and playing the pre-Cain stuff, to me, is a ridiculous notion. Get Greg in, cool. Do SOME of those. But if he thinks he's going to fill arenas with anything pre-Infinity, he's sadly mistaken.

Neal needs to work it out with THESE guys.Or break the band up.Or get Steve Perry and do something (NOT JOURNEY) together.Or have it be "The Neal Schon Band" where he can go out and play great stuff from all eras of Journey, Schon and Hammer, Late Nite, etc, etc.... and fill places 1/4 of the size of what he's doing now. This is no slam on Neal. But fans know "JOURNEY". They don't know anybody else but Steve Perry and Arnel Pineda these days.

The entire band needs to take a year off. Get their feet back on the ground again and stop fanning the flames (Neal), and decide how to move forward.

His "restored my faith" post from yesterday... those are posts on NEAL'S FB page. Of course your fans are going to come to your defense on Facebook. On other members' pages, the fans aren't too happy about what's going on, especially with the slams toward Arnel. I'm noticing that JC's fans are taking it as "Neal hates Jesus" or some crap, but that's only a few.

WhattaMess

It is a ridiculous notion if the idea is to be able to continue playing arenas. Not so ridiculous if the idea is just to keep touring, writing new material, and playing in front of a much more intimate crowd. If it's solely for the love of playing live and creating new music, then I think it's an acceptable idea. They could still play a select few songs from Escape or Frontiers, but we're talking about three or four songs, not a dozen or more "Cain" songs. I would go to this show!

In terms of the new band, I could see a trio of sorts, ala' Raised on Radio. Neal, Gregg, and maybe Deen? Maybe there's hired hands to come in and sing as well. Maybe there's Perry singing lead on a couple new tracks on a new album or EP? This is what I consider breaking things to fix them. You're starting back to square one. Maybe he goes the route of the Neal Schon Band bringing you Classic Journey experience.

Archetype wrote:He's never stated that he plans on filling arenas with pre-Infinity material.

No, but he has stated that that's what he wants to go out and play. So... is Neal going to be satisfied with playing small theaters? Somehow I think not. If that's what he wants to do, sure, he can play forever. But the audiences will be smaller and it will be seen as being unsuccessful. This is not slam on Schon, I think it's just the way it would go. As was mentioned above, during the Generations tour, they did those super long shows and played a bunch of stuff from the first 4 albums. Great for Neal and the few hundred that like and even remember those albums. However, a lot of people had no idea what was going on. Listen to the boots from that tour. People are jeering them at points.

Archetype wrote:He's never stated that he plans on filling arenas with pre-Infinity material.

No, but he has stated that that's what he wants to go out and play. So... is Neal going to be satisfied with playing small theaters? Somehow I think not. If that's what he wants to do, sure, he can play forever. But the audiences will be smaller and it will be seen as being unsuccessful. This is not slam on Schon, I think it's just the way it would go. As was mentioned above, during the Generations tour, they did those super long shows and played a bunch of stuff from the first 4 albums. Great for Neal and the few hundred that like and even remember those albums. However, a lot of people had no idea what was going on. Listen to the boots from that tour. People are jeering them at points.

Neal, Jonathan and Deen along with John Waite and Ricky Phillips all played small theaters often during the first leg of the Bad English tour in 1989. I remember them saying that they were having fun playing to smaller crowds.

My prediction is that for a couple of years Neal will do his "Neal Schon's JRNY" thing with some guys like Gregg Rolie and other guys that he feels are right for the kind of music that he wants to make. Then after 2 or 3 years of that there will be a Journey reunion with Cain and Valory and some of the group of Arnel Pineda, Steve Smith, Deen Castronovo or other past Journey members.

Archetype wrote:He's never stated that he plans on filling arenas with pre-Infinity material.

No, but he has stated that that's what he wants to go out and play. So... is Neal going to be satisfied with playing small theaters? Somehow I think not. If that's what he wants to do, sure, he can play forever. But the audiences will be smaller and it will be seen as being unsuccessful. This is not slam on Schon, I think it's just the way it would go. As was mentioned above, during the Generations tour, they did those super long shows and played a bunch of stuff from the first 4 albums. Great for Neal and the few hundred that like and even remember those albums. However, a lot of people had no idea what was going on. Listen to the boots from that tour. People are jeering them at points.

Maybe it's just that Cleveland is a better Rock city than most? But I was at the Cleveland show of the Generations tour, and I didn't notice anyone having a problem with the pre-Perry era songs. No jeering, no mass exits to the bathrooms or to buy beer or food.

I don't think that it's that Neal intends to play strictly pre-Perry era Journey. My guess is that he'll play a combination of Pre-Perry era Journey, stuff from the Infinity, Evolution and Departure albums, and some new material and some of his solo material. Which would be awesome to me!!!

Jon seems really upset here.. I definitely do not think this is any sort of publicity stunt

He didn't look upset at all. I am starting to think it is a publicity of the worst kind. I had my eyes on little Miss Prayer Money for Jesus there, though. She looked mighty nervous that she was gonna have to answer a question but Jon spoke on her behalf. Good show Jon.

Jon seems really upset here.. I definitely do not think this is any sort of publicity stunt

He didn't look upset at all. I am starting to think it is a publicity of the worst kind. I had my eyes on little Miss Prayer Money for Jesus there, though. She looked mighty nervous that she was gonna have to answer a question but Jon spoke on her behalf. Good show Jon.

Anybody who would suggest these plot lines and behavior for a publicity stunt should not be in the publicity field. No way this is about publicity. Not even a one percent chance in my book.

Greg wrote:If this is a publicity stunt (and I don't think it is), then it's a dumb move. What purpose would it serve?

I don't think it is either. I do think it's Neal getting pissy, and to some degree rightfully so, trying to pull Perry out of hiding to do something with him. That said, some would argue that bad publicity is still better than none at all, and let's face it... For the most part after all the Arnel-rags to riches stories and Neal and Michelle stories had their day, Journey hasn't been in the spotlight like they had been.

Journey should have played Remember Me in every single concert since 1998. After twenty years, people will know that song by now and it would be a "hit." Also, Journey should have played one song off Arrival in every concert every tour, too. Then you'd have two "new" songs they could play and the fans would be excited.

Also, they should have played Change for the Better and Edge of the Moment every concert every tour from the first time they could. That would make four "new hit songs."

This is a mess. If I was Mr Perry I would stay as far away as I could from this while it's being brewed . Although I do think people got thrown out of place with Mr Perry actually showing up and laughing talking and holding hands with Arnel that night. It seems like a dream. Amazing how you can talk about love and admiration and it is true yet you keep yourself stuck in an old familiar place of unforgiveness and pain. The ego is strong.

Marabelle wrote:This is a mess. If I was Mr Perry I would stay as far away as I could from this while it's being brewed . Although I do think people got thrown out of place with Mr Perry actually showing up and laughing talking and holding hands with Arnel that night. It seems like a dream. Amazing how you can talk about love and admiration and it is true yet you keep yourself stuck in an old familiar place of unforgiveness and pain. The ego is strong.

I see it a different way. That night was SP taking his rightful place among the best of rock's best, accepting the honor - yet humbly admitting that it was the ensemble which made it what it was. He therefore credited others. What he did with -and for- Arnel was pass the torch and say, "This isn't mine anymore. It's yours. You've earned it." It gave the fans (and HBO) permission to not run the band offstage when it became clear he wasn't going to sing with them. And, Arnel had the balls to take the torch.