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Politicized “Medicine”

It sure looks like science is losing out to big money

by Adam Taggart

Why is hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), one of the most prescribed drugs in history, now suddenly labelled as a lethal threat? And yet barely-tested compounds, like Moderna’s “vaccine”, are quickly and loudly championed?

It’s getting harder and harder to see the inconsistency/hypocrisy as anything but a highly political show in which science is losing out to big money.

Perhaps nothing makes this point more than Moderna and its blockbuster announcement Monday that its “vaccine” generated sufficient antibodies to give recipients immunity to covid-19.

The stock soared as a result…and then the company immediately announced a new funding round.

And then we find out that the White House’s new “vaccine czar”, Dr Moncef Slaoui, who sat on Moderna’s board up until just a few days ago, is dumping his 156,000 stock options in the company at a sweet price.

Is Moderna being touted because it truly shows more promise than cheap widely-available HCQ? Or because those running the show stand to profit from it? We don’t know for sure, but it sure stinks like it’s the latter.

Don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and I are now making it available to the world for free during the covid-19 lockdown.

What is half the country gonna think when Trump makes a comment on an issue? I think that certain people know there is a swath of other people that have such rigid ideology about Trump, that no matter what he says, this group will take the opposite position, hard, no matter what. Trump says HQC might be a solution and half the country goes bonkers in opposition to HQC. I found that to be so with my brother. When I casually mentioned that having Trump drop the HCQ comment, the "Never Trumpers" would immediately demonize HCQ, and no one's looking at the data that shows just how effective it is. In fact, my brother dislikes Trump so much, he had his doubts about HCQ.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn Trump is invested in Pharma. Personally, I think the big hype is all about money, not politics. Politics is just used to the industries' advantage: gain opposition to the cheap, effective (with Zinc motherfuckers) HCQ. Who "owns" the few ginormous media outlets (radio, cable, newspaper, and television) and controls the content by way of advertising dollars? Big Pharma.

Just like Pharma has THE sweetest, no liability, no testing required, no advertising required, compulsory use of their products, national government contract: CDC mandated vaccines; and all they have to do is pay money, submit some shoddy study, and voila, America's got ANOTHER vaccine on the ever growing vaccine schedule.

Dissappointed

Here is a link to the Georgia DPH website. I have been watching this site for a few weeks now. If you look at the website the trend seems to be going down. We won't really know until a few weeks down the road.

Chris, did you write the commentary which starts at around 17 minutes in the video? If not you who was it? You usually do a good job referencing your information. As you know 17 days is an eternity in the coronavirus world. If you look at the website you will see that the data is subject to change as new information comes in. The state has been quite transparent in my opinion. Was this an oversight on your part? Do you believe that we in GA are not capable of taking information and acting responsibility on it? Perhaps we are too backward for your taste because we pray to our God to remove the vapours.

The decision to reopen the state could not have been an easy one to make. When the President tells you he disagrees then you know that you stand alone. I believe that the governor showed courage (large cohones for the sailor in you) when he opened up the state. Did he make the statisticians change the chart? I don't know. Was the decision to open up the right one? In my opinion yes.

nickythec said:

Tony,

I am baffled by your assessment of Chris's reporting on GA. I also live in GA, and I have been following our progress since the state first started posting any stats. The reference Chris makes starting at minute 17 and the chart he refers to on the next slide couldn't be clearer. You seem to be referencing the website (as it currently exists) in your post... FYI... GA already got caught with regards to the chart Chris mentions, then Kemp's communication director Candice Broce made a lame excuse for the chart in question, and then GA changed it. Please refer to the link below for the chart (as it was referenced in the video):

Look at the dates on the X axis....I saw it myself, and saw this story. Unbelievable.... Georgia's handling of the stats and their dissemination of information Covid-related has been embarrassing to say the least (and before this turns political, please know that I voted for Kemp).

My admitted guess here is that it is more likely that you are in disagreement with the perceived criticism of Kemp opening the state. Debating the opening of the state is a completely different argument from the one Chris appears to be making. Maybe opening the state was the right move, maybe not... but one thing I am sure of is that our state government isn't shooting us the straight info, and that seems to be the crux of this segment in Chris' video. I just wish GA would be honest and transparent when making their decisions. I am open to a healthy debate about whether we should be open or not, but there is NO excuse for what has been done with our stats. Fudging data and/or its representation is just unacceptable. Again, please read the link above for reference..... Georgia got lambasted for this chart.... made some lame excuses (which are all referenced and were widely seen on twitter), then changed it, so looking at the dph.georgia.gov site now is hardly useful with reference to Chris' current video.

nickythec

Thanks for the link. I had not seen it. As I stated Chris usually credits a source when he uses it. What is not transparent about the website now? Is there other evidence that I have missed? I have always believed that if someone is willing to correct mistakes that we should be accept the corrections and proceed with caution. As I stated previously 17 days is an eternity in the present situation.

I am willing to change my opinion about the reopening if more information presents itself. At this time I believe we should do all we can to prepare for the next wave. As I said before this is my opinion based on my experience where I live in south GA.

As I look at the Second Nexus website I notice that there is quite a bit of bias against conservative points of view. If the news a person reads is coming from a skewed prospective it can influence your thinking. This is true of all of the large news outlets. I do not watch any of them. This makes me wonder even more if this website has a bias. I had hoped to find a group that willing to look at all sides of a situation but now I am not as hopeful as I originally was.

The suppression of access to, and relentless media bias against hydroxychloroquine is a huge crime against humanity that has been happening right in front of your eyes, in real time, over the last two months. Here is yet more proof of this, pointed to by our brother in Truth Seeking Dr. James Todaro in a recent tweet;

Edit: I don't think Zinc was included here, but do remember that not adding supplemental Zinc to a study or population does not mean zero Zinc, it just means that the efficacy may be individualized depending on dietary Zinc status. It is my sense that for the purpose of prophylaxis, for most people, dietary Zinc levels may be sufficient to achieve efficacy. This is likely not the case if you are starting treatment with HCQ after an infection has started, in which case I would definitely add supplemental Zinc.

Wow the GA charts.

set a new bar for malfeasance pretty high. It takes a lot of work to re-arrange dates to get a down curve and then provide the actual dates and then expect no one to notice. I guess if you look up cherry picking data you find.....To bad, if source data was included, it would be fun to look at the data in correct order.

georgia SC2 new infections chart

Here's my SC2 chart (daily new confirmed cases, MA7) for Georgia, alongside some of its neighbors. In this chart, Georgia's data does appear to be steadily declining. Not that this is critical - all we care about is that we aren't swamping hospitals. But the declining infection count is definitely a positive sign. Heck, even moving sideways is good.

And I agree with the assessment that it took a lot of courage from Georgia's governor to work through the chorus of doom predictions.

Note that the data in this chart has been run through an MA7, which reduces the impact of the weekends, letting us see the trends more easily.

James Todaro's HCQ related links--Bookmark Me

Previously James Todaro used a google doc. But his new website will be the place that he updates HCQ related information. (He posts somethings that I don't agree completely with, but very much appreciate his ability to hold a non-standard viewpoint and to discuss things outside the Overton's window).

Washington Post Article

Chris’s critique of that Washington Post article really hit a nerve with me. Too many times, I have read articles in the American media like the one he mentions. These articles seemed very plausible until you do the background research to check out the story. But upon doing that you find that:

1) The article’s facts were cherrypicked.

2) Crucial facts were left out which would have destroyed the very narrative that the author was trying to create.

3) Experts were quoted out of context or without disclosure of clear biases.

The thing that is really troubling is that I have come to the conclusion that this is more than simply weak journalism.

It is deliberate.

Too many times, it was simply too easy for me to find the “omitted facts” or too easy to discover quotes “taken out of context” or too easy to uncover “biased sources.”

If I could uncover these weaknesses in the article why couldn’t the “journalist?”

Clearly, they could have.

Thus, I have come to the conclusion that much of the misinformation in the media is deliberate.

How can you claim to have a democracy when the people who vote cannot get accurate information?

How can you claim to have a democracy when the people can’t trust the honestly of their own media?

Drug v. Biologic plus pre-use different testing requirements

Hello Everyone, I ran across some info awhile ago about how vaccines are in a different category from "drugs." The vaccine category is called "biologic." Biologics do not necessarily go through the same testing as drugs do.

Second, the industry gets away with minimal testing when they are developing a drug or biologic that has been used before, and the 'prior use' is probably liberally construed.

The news does not have to be true

Mike from Jersey, you are correct. Unfortunately the news does not have to be true and big advertisers control content, and all radio stations, newspapers, television, cable, and all other paid for TV are ALL owned by 5 companies. These companies rely on advertising revenues. During non-election years, pharma represents 70% of advertising revenues.

Some reporters sued Fox news over the news agency's stonewalling the airing of an investigative piece on the bovine growth hormone. The story was negative, and never aired as Monsanto sent Fox a threatening letter to NOT air the story. GThe reporters ended up getting fired and sued Fox news.

The reporters won at the trial level but lost when Fox appealed. The higher Court reversed stating the reporters did not have whistle blower status and that the FCC's rule on not distorting the news has never been formally adopted.

Can the media distort facts? Yes. Can the media report false facts? Yes. It's done all the time. That's why we have to find our own trusted news sources.

nickythec said:

Thanks for the response Tony. What doesn't seem transparent about the site currently, or maybe more accurately, misleading is how the data is being applied to the charts. I am attaching two links from the AJC talking about it with source links within. I don't want to misstate how they are doing it, but the quick recap is that if 100 new cases came back positive yesterday, most of those won't actually be assigned to yesterday, but instead, each will be incremented to the day the test was taken, or when the first symptoms were shown. As a result, you constantly have to look back over 3 weeks of data (or more) to see what the daily averages are like. Again, see the links below for a more accurate/complete description of this:

This kind of presentation of the data, along with the chart referenced by Chris in the video just seem to me to try to shape the story instead of just delivering the facts.

I only used the second nexus website link because of the screen capture of the original chart, and the tweets from the Kemp administration about it. I originally saw the graph myself way before Chris covered it last night when the old version of the chart was still on the dph site.

You're response seems to presume that I am looking at things this way because of my political views. Not so. I really am not political, but I remind you that I voted for Kemp and I am very conservative in many of my views. I agree that media has all sorts of slants. I don't really care about their article. I am just looking at what our state government is saying and putting out. Forget about the article text, and just look at the chart, and the Kemp administrations response when called out on it. I just want straight facts and data, and don't think we are getting it here in GA.

Hladini

Hladini,

Yes, I am aware of all that. The consolidation of the news media into just a few owners was a hammer blow against democracy. And, yes, - being, myself, a retired attorney - I am all too aware of the law which lets these fraudsters get away with fraud. And also, yes, I am aware of the fact that we have to find our own trusted sources - as difficult as that may be.

But none of that makes it right. We should all make it clear that this status quo is unacceptable. The media should not be allowed to lie and we should not put up with a country pretends to be a beacon of truth but is, instead, a mass manufacturer of falsehood.

I CRITICIZED CHRIS - Sorry Mate!

Down here in New Zealand the TOTAL lockdown actually seems to have beaten the virus. Seriously. Down to basically ZERO cases per day. And the "gold standard" that Chris advocates was the thing. The borders were shut tight, most everything was shut down for 49 days. A big success. And now - because the virus is truly beaten - people are not afraid to go shopping, the carparks are full, business is back, etc. This is way better than what I see happening overseas. Why is that?

Well - the NZ Govt had a policy of "GO HARD and GO EARLY". What I see in most countries is a kind-of "half-way" measure - trying to keep things open and lockdown at the same time. And often - to quite a degree - their borders are still open. This is a disaster.

Then - even if you remove the lockdown - people are too afraid to go shopping much - because the virus is still around - not "beaten". If you are going to do lockdown - then DO LOCKDOWN. Go hard and go early. Shut the borders tight. Hardly any western countries did this properly. So they are left in "purgatory" - halfway house.

The UK is bad - but I think the USA is in bigger trouble. Official lockdowns may be lifted - but the virus is still circulating - so nobody wants to go to Malls or retail. Most will largely stay home. The economy will not recover because the lockdowns were so piecemeal and politicized. So late, so slow, so inconsistent. I am worried for the USA.

Anyway - kudos to Chris. Well done, mate.

Best advice - "If you are going to panic - panic early". Proven true once again.

New Zealand isn't out of the woods

Andy S,

Your self congratulation may be premature. Just because NZ acted swiftly and closed its borders doesn't mean that the C-19 virus has gone away. It is still out here in the rest of the world and one day, probably quite soon, it will gain entry into New Zealand and you Kiwis will go though the same trauma that the rest of the world has experienced.

Without herd immunity or an effective vaccine, there is no permanent defense. All your total lock-down has achieved is a delay of the inevitable.

That may be a good thing, because it will give you time during which the international medical community might just get its act together and come to some consensus about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, remdesivir or invermectin.

Disagree - to an extent!

NZ is a good place right now, because we took extreme measures, but we are not out of the woods. Once we open up our borders again, we open ourselves up to risk. However we are well placed to minimise this where possible through contact tracing and other measures by moving back up a level (we have 4 alert levels here with different 'restrictions' and guidelines attached to each) to get things 'under control' once more.

As a result of how we have positioned ourselves as a nation, I am hopeful and have a reasonable level of confidence that we will not go through the same trauma as other countries, as you believe we might. In the interim, I'm with you on everyone getting their act together and initiating sound studies on remedies.

Gold standard for NZ? Almost.

Andy_S, as a New Zealander I just want to modify your statement about NZ using Chris's gold standard approach. It's good but not gold and, I think, luck has had something to do with our success.

When strict border controls were announced, there was a rush to get back and the managing of people at the main airport (and probably others but I only know about Auckland) was chaotic, with no screening and no attempt to avoid crowding. On top of that, the mandatory quarantine was originally managed through trust (with a little bit of follow up), later eventually managed properly. I'm amazed we didn't import more cases in that period but relieved also.

There was no step 1b (face masks for all) and face masks have never been recommended for public use (though never explicitly advised against), not even for grocery store staff (though a few did wear them). I also believe that step 2, aggressive testing, wasn't done though it improved over time. Early on you had to have symptoms and a strong likelihood of having recently travelled internationally or been in close contact with a known case. One still has to have some symptoms to get tested on request though they encourage people with only slight symptoms to get tested. There is also, now, some surveillance testing though this is by no means random.

Now 4 days of zero new cases, and 7 of the last 8 days with zero new cases (and only 1 on the other day). So it's looking good but we're only a week into the more relaxed regime of Alert Level 2, with an average incubation period of 2 weeks. So let's see how the next week pans out.

I'd say that we were also lucky that the breaches of Levels 3 and 4 didn't seem to result in the virus getting away from us. So luck and an early strong response seemed to do the trick for us. But if we ever open up the borders again, all hell could break loose.

Mike from Jersey

Mike, we are on the same side!! No, it's not right, it's terribly wrong. How can voters make good choices when the news can be false, when advertisers determine what information/content is reported to the public?

What can we do?

What I would like to see is a public that 'unplugs' from corporate. Ditch the cell phone. Ditch the Ipads. Ditch subscriptions for cable. Ditch the TV(s). Ditch corporate food and corporate medicine. And ditch Hollywood.

One reason these corporations have oversized influence, control and power is because WE BUY THEIR SHIT.

Off Topic/911 News Update

Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, along with (10) 911 family members and 88 Architects and structural engineers have submitted a Request for Corrections to NIST to correct a number of mismatches in its WTC Building 7 model. NIST has never released its data for the model it used to explain how the third tower came down by office fires alone. Because NIST has not released its data, the NIST model cannot be peer reviewed. No peer review, No gold standard. In other words, its junk science.

A&E911truth is asking folks to contact members of the rules and oversight committee to review the Request for Corrections submitted to NIST. You can find out more here:

Hladini

The science does not seem to be settled.

Did the lockdown save lives? It’s possible but not yet proven, and the evidence so far points to a negative answer. No matter how much we try to spin this in our heads, no matter how much we want to believe that something good has come out of this catastrophe, we are all going to have someday to deal with the terrible but likely reality that it was all for naught.

Thank you, science is never settled

Science is always evolving, progressing, changing as our research and understanding grow. Scientist are by definition, people who question and test every theory and hypothesis about the world. If they did not our society would still be in the Stone Age.

I don't necessarily agree with everything in the article, but I agree with the author's right to question everything. It is a very frightening age we are currently in. The Media-pharma complex is now crushing any questioning of their propaganda. All for profits and control.

I keep repeating: "I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

nickytech

Thank you for the links. At this time it is hard to know who to trust. The only option currently is to take all of the information available and sort it out. I do not like to be given faulty data. It makes my decisions much harder to make. This is why I originally joined this site. I was watching Chris on YouTube and eventually I had to search to find the videos.

Just so you know where I stand about our governor I voted for him but would have voted differently if given a better choice. The appointment of someone with direct ties to the stock market to be senator did not help my view of him. In spite of these things I will continue to support him.

I live in south central GA and I grew up in southwest GA. I know people who have been affected by the virus. I don't know anyone who has died but my cousin has had several friends to die. My daughter is a dialysis nurse who is treating covid patients after hours at the clinic. I am not trying to diminish the things that are happening.

My family has been in the manufacturing business for nearly 40 years. We closed for three weeks even though we could have made a case for being an essential business(waster treatment equipment). We did this to "flatten the curve". We gave our employees money to buy supplies. A week later we received a PPP loan. Without this we would have only lasted for a few months. I do believe that if we stay in our houses until the danger is totally gone we will lose our economic future and possibly our freedom.

There has been also concern that starvation in the world will greatly outpace the death toll from the virus. If I can help prevent that in any small measure I am going to do my part.

Tony McPherson

Thanks for the response. I think we are actually in pretty close agreement on a lot of things. First, I think you came the the right place (here at PP) given this discussion. I haven't been big on commenting in the past, but I have been here for 10 years, and it is well worth it!

I couldn't agree more on your comment that it is hard to know who to trust. I trust Chris and Adam here, in no small part because they will always tell you where their information came from, and they always welcome new data (even if it means they need to change their position on something). In the past, if I have ever wanted more info on where they sourced something (or if I can't figure out where they got some data), I always get a great response and they always are happy to share.

You and I are on the same page for decision, our vote and decision to try to support Kemp. I am critical of him (and his admin) only in the hopes that we can get better results. I have been vocal about it here (of course), but more constructively (I hope), I reach out to the governors office often to voice my concerns. I know I am only one person, but... gotta try.

Thanks for sharing your background. I live in North GA, and run a tech company based in NYC. We have been fortunate that we are able to be pretty effective running remote. Given that most of my staff live in and around NYC, we have seen a lot of tough things in the last 6 weeks. I know many people who have been infected as well as a few who have died. All that being said, I am very sympathetic to the issues you mentioned regarding shutdown. It is a tough call to make, and I don't really have a position against opening the state... I just really want all of the information so I can make the best decisions for myself and my family. I think many of us here feel the same way. It is why I get so riled up about the appearance of doctoring or manipulating the data. Whether I am right or wrong about that, I am happy to debate. I just wish it was clearer.

Please, can You check up the latest influenza cell-based part of vaccination in the season 2019-2020 as well.

Media and researchers force people to get influenza vaccination for the next influenza season 2020-2021 in couple of months again. But, there is a paradox: less people vaccinated in the influenza season 2019-2020 in some states and agglomerations - less problem with Covid-19. USA 50%, Germany 25%, Czechia 5%, Slovakia 4,4 %. Influenza vaccination rate in the category 65+ can reach in such agglomerations as NY or Lombardia 80 %, while Germany 35 %, Czechia 20 %, Slovakia 13 %, Estonia 5%. There are extremely big number of Covid-19 deaths in NY and Lombardia agglomerations and almost no Covid-19 deaths in Estonia, Slovakia. Germany is in the middle. Can somebody explain it?

Ision - thoughts

In the entire history of Mankind, the "Media" has never been worthy of automatic Trust and has always required Rational analysis to reveal lies, contradictions, and misunderstandings.

Unfortunately, sometimes my rational analysis tells me I have no f-ing idea what is going on but I do know whatever “it” is - isn’t what they say it is.

From the first time clay was impressed with a stylus, until today, media has always attempted to influence how people think and act, even if it is trying to communicate fact.

Even here - “wear a mask”! You would think people could be adults and determine when masks are appropriate and make sense. I see some people out and about wearing masks in their car, pumping gas, walking the dog, just about everywhere. Really if people are six feet apart is there scientific evidence masks are necessary, four feet, two feet? And who gets to say when, where and for how long to wear masks? Besides a single piece of cotton fabric really provides very little protection. But hey, it makes a person/people feel good!

The greater your rational ability, the more you realize how completely surrounded by the insane, you really are.

YES - BUMBLING LOCKDOWN is a WASTE - And An Economic Disaster

Lockdowns are only worthwhile if they are done EARLY - and very STRICT. Good testing, good leadership, transparency, etc. That is the only way it works. After 2 months you can actually get on top of the outbreak.

This is why I worry about America. Too many states with totally different responses. Acting too late - too piecemeal. Lots of political agendas interfering, etc, etc. America is a big, unwieldy place. In some situations, America shines. But I think this particular crisis is bringing out all the weaknesses.

mission creep

I'm going to remind everyone once more that our goal in doing a "lockdown" was to avoid swamping the hospital system, NOT to drop the R0 below 1. We have done that. Hospital systems are NOT OVERWHELMED.

Changing the mission to a "drop R0 below 1" is total mission creep, and it will destroy the economy if we attempt to do this.

Everyone can assess for themselves, using western rational thought processes, the risk of going out in public based on age, physical condition, co-morbidities, scientific evidence, and so on. If you deem your risk to be high, wear a mask. If nobody else is wearing a mask in a location that you deem to be risky - then try exercising your freedom not to go there!

Having the government arbitrarily restrict the activities of the young and healthy who make up the vast majority of the population (and to whom this disease poses relatively little risk) just makes no sense, especially if it is treated early with HCQ/AZI.

Businesses can reserve the right to refuse service to customers who don't wear protective gear in hazardous environments. Customers can choose not to frequent businesses that don't protect customers.

Lastly - the ability to stop this pandemic using NPIs is long since past. That ship has sailed a long time ago. If we now want to make this our goal, the attempt will be the single most expensive decision we make as a society for the next two generations.

We will end up transferring all the wealth from small business to corporate america. Amazon and Wal-Mart will utterly own retail. The remnants of the middle class will be gone. Tens of millions of Americans will lose their homes to foreclosure, a few months after losing their jobs to lockdowns. Wall street will snap them up at half price, and then rent them back to us, just like they did after 2008.

True scientific test

We have been watching airplanes with wings fly for 70 years. Wings work quite well and we all know it. However, we have never tested wings scientifically, you know, the way it should be done, with a placebo group. So let's do a real test; some planes will have wings and some won't. We need to prove this once and for all. Each plane needs to be loaded with people. Who wants to volunteer?

Gator Gal said:

Lancet "study" Proves HCQ More Dangerous(?)

This is a cross post from the main thread on HCQ and deep state. Thought it should go there too:

Yeah - about that "study."

It's not an actual clinical trial but a retrospective romp through prior medical files to see if anything pops up.

As with the "VA" study, the key thing is how did they manage to adjust for all the confounding factors post-facto?

Here you *really* have to trust the researchers to not only do this correctly, but to not accidentally introduce any of their own biases to the adjustment factors.

Given the massive politicization of HCQ, coupled to the obvious conflicts of interests in promoting various Gilead/Santos/Merck/Astra Zeneca/etc/etc/etc "treatments," I am deservedly cautious in accepting the results form these sorts of "studies."

For example, did this study control for the timing of administration? Or zinc? No, and no.

Why not?

Also, why hasn't there been a placebo controlled, double blind randomized trial? That includes zinc, of course Again, why not?

If there had been, we wouldn't have to peer through a fog of possible errors as I've pointed out in my re-interpretation of their methods:

Maybe they did all of that in a completely unbiased way. Or maybe the researchers are asshats on the scale of the Stanford docs who did that terribly biased serological study.

Of all the things I deplore most, it's the degree to which science has been revealed to be a gigantic morass of conflicts of interest and belief systems masquerading as authority.

Do you hold studies that show HCQ benefits up to the same scrutiny?

Chris,

I think you are showing a confirmation bias around the HCQ studies. Do you challenge Dr Raoult about every detail of how he adjusts for confounding factors? Or all the other non-trials that seem to show a favourable outcome for HCQ? Do you challenge Dr Raoult for his failure to consider zinc?

You constantly raise the idea that authors of studies finding little effect for HCQ have some bias or ulterior motive. That may be so, but it could be equally true of those claiming favourable results for HCQ. Scientific study is a human activity, and subject to the foibles of all human activity. All scientists have their own biases and beliefs, and we need to use the scientific method as much as we can to get past that. We need better studies around HCQ, but don't just blame HCQ sceptics for the failure to have proper studies.

One thing you said a lot in the early videos was: "I get it." You understood why people might be doing things a certain way, even if you thought they were misguided. Can't you look at the Lancet study with the same sense of openness.

You must agree, surely, that there is a real possibility that HCQ will turn out to be a big nothing burger. With that in mind, is your approach helping your readers understand how that possibility is shaping up? What must surely be obvious at this point is that HCQ is no wonder drug, but your presentation risks feeding the wonder drug vs. deep state narrative.

HCQ Benefits Scrutiny

What must surely be obvious at this point is that HCQ is no wonder drug...

It's not "surely...obvious" to me. Could you explain what you're seeing that (1) takes HCQ out of "wonder drug" category, and (2) what significance you find in not classifying HCQ as a "wonder drug"? (Does that mean it doesn't work at all? or that it doesn't work alone? or only works in a narrow range of application criteria? or what?)

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

The COVID-19 vaccine may in fact be the most fast-tracked vaccine ever created in all history, which necessitates the elimination of required safety testing steps, such as animal testing
Pfizer in collaboration with BioNTech began human trials in the U.S. of a COVID-19 vaccine on May 11, 2020. If successful, the vaccine could be released as early as September 2020 with an FDA-approved Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)
Like Moderna and several other competitors, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is using messenger RNA (mRNA) rather than live or attenuated (inactivated) viruses grown in animal cells
Previous attempts to create coronavirus vaccines have failed due to coronaviruses triggering production of two different types of antibodies — one that fights disease and one that triggers “paradoxical immune enhancement” that often results in very serious disease and/or death
Vaccines that caused paradoxical immune enhancement initially looked very promising as they produced very robust antibody responses. Yet when exposed to the wild virus, ferrets and children became severely ill and many died

Not a wonder drug

There have been no shortage of BLT comments on this site that have touted HCQ as a wonder drug for Covid. "No one died" "Nobody needed to die" "None of Raoult's patients died" "None of Zelenko's patients died". Blah blah blah.

My expectation is that the more this protocol is studied, the less positive the results will be. This is not an uncommon experience in drug trials, apparently. Whether that means it's somewhat beneficial, neutral, or somewhat harmful? Well, we will see in time.

Some randomised controlled trials are already underway, so I don't expect us to be waiting a year before we have some better data.

Going back over recent posts I noticed Chris's subject line:Lancet "study" Proves HCQ More Dangerous(?)
This is a straw man - the authors don't claim to have proved anything. Rather, they provide evidence of an association, and call for more and better studies to find evidence of causation. Why are you putting "study" in scare quotes? To see you malign a serious study in this way is frankly off-putting. I can't help thinking you are going to look back on this episode with some embarrassment.

Albacore

One would have to be hiding under a rock to not see how the politics is not only affecting the so called studies but the reporting by the media.

Roualt, Zelenko and others are more concerned with treating patients than conforming to the niceties you are calling for.

I have no idea where you live , how old you are, what comorbidities or underlying conditions you may have but i do have a question for you.

What is your plan if you get SC2? Right now there is no treatment approved by the government (who happens to be the best doctor on the planet apparently). The current protocol in my neck of the woods is go home and if you get worse come back and we will hospitalize you and provide palliative care. Is that your plan? Just asking for a friend

Problem posting

I tried to post an article in Indiaexpress.com about the government providing police with 2 Homeopathic remedies to boost the immune system . The 2 are Arsenicum Album 30 and Camphor 1m

"Personnel posted in areas with high incidence of infections have been advised to take one dose of four pellets daily for four to five days, while those with symptoms of Covid-19 have been advised to consult doctors for the correct dosage. "

The Indian government has for many weeks been providing health care workers all over the country with HCQ to use as a prophylaxsis. Police depts. are also issuing HCQ.

I could not post the article but you can google it or better yet duckduckgo it

proof by assertion

Albacore asserts that such a trial is under way, but provides us no evidence. That's called a "proof by assertion" which of course is the weakest of weak tea, the last refuge of the incompetent.

They're way too scared to do a real trial. That's my conclusion. It might just work. And then where would they be? All the expensive vaccine development, the $1000 RD treatment...all eclipsed by an off-patent drug that sells for $10.

Serious, not trolling

Yes, I am aware of how political this has become, and I have limited my postings after stepping into the middle of a US culture war.
But you are talking about it as if only one side is being political, and that anyone who is sceptical about HCQ is pwned by the deep state. What I want to see is the evidence.
To your question: I live in the UK. If I get ill I will stay at home unless it gets serious, at which point I will go to hospital and get whatever treatment the medics consider appropriate.

Albacore should work for CNN or the Washington Post

Albacore said,

You must agree, surely, that there is a real possibility that HCQ will turn out to be a big nothing burger

There is absolutely no chance the HCQ is a nothingburger. Mounds of data, clinical outcomes, in-vitro studies, and papers showing how HCQ works have been presented over the last two months on this website, many of which can be reviewed in the forum thread, "hydroxychloroquine vs. the Deep State", a title which was at first derided but not so much today.

Too many lives have been saved to deny the efficacy of this drug, especially in conjunction with Zinc and Zithromax. We don't know everything but we know a lot;

- It works best if given early. All of the studies line up in this way - even those which show failure because we have to admit that HCQ is not effective later in the disease course. When data lines up this way, those of us with pattern recognition skills know it's not random chance.

- HCQ's success rate in terms of reducing mortality, if given early in populations at risk (i.e. a nursing home) is somewhere in the range of 90 - 95%. That is HUGE. That is a Game changer. That borders on a cure but I don't want to be hyperbolic so I won't use that word.

Your post hardly deserves a response, but I do so for new people coming here who may tend to be thrown off course by your propaganda.

What I want to see is the evidence.

Again, the forum thread called, "hydroxchloroquine vs the deep state" has 200 posts worth of evidence. Your request rings very hollow. You are just spewing BS.

Patchwork Nature of the Pandemic

The Atlantic has an article which talks about the way this pandemic has appeared in some areas hard, others not, and the difficulty this has lead to a coordinated response in the partisan and political environment we live in right now.

Albacore et al

Duh, it’s ALL about “money”!!!!! If there is an effective treatment we won’t be desperate for a vaccine which will put TRILLIONS in the pockets of those who say we have NO right to decide for our own bodies.

Yep Mandate vaccines for 9 billion people. Slavery world wide!!!!!! Oh gosh a treatment that works and costs practically nothing. We will spin it as dangerous, yeah that will work! Or maybe it won’t.

Dtrammel

I suggest that you watch the video above. A huge percentage of our population is obese which us a major risk factor for disease and the virus and no one talks about food being medicine. But push drugs and vaccines.

Thousands die every day from preventable disease and very little is said because it produces big bucks. It’s ALL about the money.

Vitamin D; The consensus continues to build that it can reduce mortality

This was reviewed in today's MedCram video by Dr. Seheult. Here is a screengrab from the paper, and I ask that you consider the overall hypocrisy of advocating for Vitamin D with only circumstantial evidence, yet requiring some kind of Gold-plated study for HCQ before we can even talk about it openly. Vitamin D is good, HCQ is good, each in it's place.

3. Proportion of participants who died from any cause or were hospitalized through the end of follow-up [ Time Frame: Measured during the 24-week period from and including the day of the first (confirmed) dose of study treatment ]

Unlike the remdesivir trial, which happened in a month, this trial will take 24 weeks. Or, 6 months. Why must it take this long? Because. Because they don't want it to finish quickly.

Did the remdesivir trial have a 24-week secondary endpoint?

OF COURSE NOT! There's $1000 - per treatment - on the line here!

We can't be waiting around for any 24 week endpoints.

And Chris didn't like the fact they didn't use zinc. Which, HCQ being a zinc ionophore, adding in zinc supplementation would theoretically improve outcomes from all the people with zinc deficiencies. Which it turns out, elderly people happen to have - a zinc deficiency that is.

--- [EDIT]

Sorry I forgot to add my response to the "SOLIDARITY" WHO-trial. Also known as:

And, of course, no azithromycin, and no zinc. A short trial end date, AZI, and zinc, might really work well to save people's lives today.

We can't have that. Gates wants enough time to get his vaccines deployed. Competition from treatments? Not part of his playbook. He always acts to crush competition. That much is clear from his Microsoft days.

You may view this as a culture war. I see it as some money-grubbing scumbags killing Americans for profit. Tomato, tomahto.

Time for you to study a bit, Albacore

You state:

There have been no shortage of BLT comments on this site that have touted HCQ as a wonder drug for Covid. "No one died" "Nobody needed to die" "None of Raoult's patients died" "None of Zelenko's patients died". Blah blah blah.

My expectation is that the more this protocol is studied, the less positive the results will be. This is not an uncommon experience in drug trials, apparently. Whether that means it's somewhat beneficial, neutral, or somewhat harmful? Well, we will see in time.

The HCQ+ protocol has been studied and it is time for you to become better informed instead of blah, blah, blahing. Your "expectation" is just wrong and it is time you learned better.

In the interest of recycling text, here is a comment I wrote this morning to a post on Medium by a similarly poorly-informed individual named Dana Smith.

Response to Dana Smith re HCQ:

On the contrary, Dana Smith.

Actually, there abundant evidence that HCQ, particularly if taken with zinc early in the course of viral infection, is very effective against COVID-19. HCQ is an antiviral, so it is effective in the early course of infection, before the viral infection gets well-established. It is not nearly as effective later.

The University of Virginia (UVA) “study”, reported by Politico and recycled here by Ms. Smith, is scientific trash. The “study” has not been published and I am virtually certain it will not survive peer review. (I have over 300 peer-reviewed publications and 63 patents—I know something about peer review.)

It is trash because: a) it did not use zinc, b) was retroactive (not a properly controlled study), c) was too small for proper statistics, d) was not randomized and e) was skewed toward more elderly and fragile patients.

Most critical of all, those who took HCQ in the UVA “study” were at death’s door anyway—in the very last stages of the illness. It is likely that nothing would have helped them.

Two questions everyone considering this HCQ issue for themselves and/or their loved ones should ask are these:

“Am I against HCQ at least in part because Trump has “touted” it?”

and the corollary

“If Obama had told me HCQ was safe and effective, would I have a different opinion?”

If within the honesty of your own conscience you are inclined to answer “yes” to both questions, then you, my friend, are not fact-based, whatever you may think. You are making decisions based on political leanings and dislike of Trump, not on evidence.

It is just flat irrelevant whether or not Trump is “touting” HCQ. All that matters is whether or not HCQ+ is effective against COVID-19. It certainly is.

It is a tragedy that a medical/scientific issue should have been politicized by Trump haters. When this is behind us, we will see that this colossal stupidity with HCQ, this Trump Derangement Syndrome, cost a lot of lives.

I sincerely hope one of those lives is not yours or one of your loved ones.

Serious not trolling

First of all the politics of HCQ is entirely 99.9% opposed. I have yet to find one political operative other than Trump on the positive side. I have no idea about the UK. The argument is being completely dominated by the opposition. No one here has any political influence. So your political argument is really a red herring. I have yet to see any media reports saying anything positive about HCQ. What I see are reports that invariably mention Trump recommending it and it is a dangerous drug.

As to your plan; you don't have one. This site from the beginning has been devoted to realizing that big changes are coming and there is a need to prepare on every level of our lives. This virus is a Black Swan event which is exposing everyone.s level of preparedness and resilience.You have been on this site long enough to know all of this.

Your non plan is basically to do nothing. If you get it you will nor avail yourself of the one thing that we know from clinical results works if used with zinc and early. You will just stay home and hope for the best. Hope is not a plan. If it gets unbearable you will go to the hospital and avail yourself of whatever the medics offer. Well at this point in time all they can offer is palliative care and by then it will be too late for anything to do much good. All of that is your choice and I support your right to make it. But is not a plan.

It's time

It is time to get the politicians out of medicine and the doctors out of politics.

My post above #54 is an interview with a Dr, Irwin Redlener. The interview is a complete abomination. The interviewer even goes so far to mention that Trump's doctor called him "morbidly obese" Now what that has to do with anything is clearly parked in the anti trump agenda.

That said I did a little research on ol Irwin. He is an interesting guy and very politically motivated. He got Trump in his crosshairs a few years ago. Irwin is a pediatrician and got his panties in a wad about the border situation and what was happening to the children. He wrote a bunch of articles against Trump back then. I am quite certain that he is capable of being objective when it comes to Trump NOT.

Here is a snippet from his wiki page. "Redlener is a special advisor to New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, with a focus on emergency management and planning to support and advise the administration's citywide disaster preparedness and response efforts."

Well I guess he has been in bed with Oxiris Barbot. In case anyone has missed it the worst place in the US for SC2 is NYC. He is responsible for advising the Mayor in this medical emergency. I wonder at the gross incompetence and his brass cojones to actually get on national tv and criticize Trump for promoting HCQ. He also said Trump was a hazard to peoples health not only for that but recommending people drink bleach.

How we got here.

Grover asked me the other day how we got here. I ran down a short list of lowlights which has brought us to the present state of affairs.

What I failed to mention is how the government has completely fucked up the health care system. Here is a brief rundown of the takeover of medicine in this country. It was completely different before 1910

This looks so bad...

Moderna's stock price skyrocketed as much as 30% on Monday after the biotech company announced promising early results for its coronavirus vaccine. As ordinary investors piled in, two insiders were quietly heading for the exits.

Moderna's chief financial officer and chief medical officer executed options and sold nearly $30 million of shares combined on Monday and Tuesday, SEC filings reviewed by CNN Business show.

Moderna stock then proceeded to fall over the next few days as scientists excoriated the company for not presenting the data to back up its promising vaccine progress claims. It's now back to the same price it was at previous to the announcement.

Shaving with Occam's Razor: of course it is a "pump and dump".

Adam:

I wouldn't anguish a moment about whether or not this is a "pump and dump". Of course it is. It is the simplest explanation that fits the facts (Occam's Razor), and the reality of human greed. I hope they will be investigated and jailed...but that is not likely.

Moderna Vaccine has 20% “Serious” Injury Rate

The vaccine, developed and championed by Anthony Fauci and financed by Bill Gates, used an experimental MRNA technology that the two men hoped would allow rapid deployment to meet President Trump’s ambitions “warp speed” time line.

Dr Fauci was so confident of his shot’s safety that he waved ferret and primate studies (Moderna suspiciously reported no health data from its mouse studies.)

That appears to have been a mistake. Three of the 15 human guinea pigs in the high dose cohort (250 mcg)suffered a “serious adverse event” within 43 days of receiving Moderna’s jab.

Moderna did not release its clinical trial study or raw data, but its press release, which was freighted with inconsistencies acknowledged that three volunteers developed Grade 3 systemic events defined by the FDA as “Preventing daily activity and requiring medical intervention.”

Moderna allowed only exceptionally healthy volunteers to participate in the study. A vaccine with those reaction rates could cause grave injuries in 1.5 billion humans if administered to “every person on earth”.

That is the threshold that Gates has established for ending the global lockdown. Moderna did not explain why it reported positive antibody tests for only eight participants.

These outcomes are particularly disappointing because the most hazardous hurdle for the inoculation is still ahead; challenging participants with wild COVID infection.

Past attempts at developing COVID vaccines have always faltered at this stage as both humans and animals achieved robust antibody response then sickened and died when exposed to the wild virus.

Truth over Comfort said:

In my view we have a government "by corporate America for corporate America." When I was young and dumb, I was patriotic. Now I see that 99% of America is view as little more than coal to make the 1% richer. A government run by business men is a government that doesn't care about the people, truth or democracy. Money comes before everything in this country. I teach my kids that the corporate government will kill you if it turns a profit. This includes the man at the top of the government. He will sacrifice any number of people as long has the precious stock market goes up. A real revolution is needed.

Gates Found Windows At Xerox...

Gates, along with his friends, discovered a wonderful operating system, which used windows instead of characters, while visiting Xerox. The Xerox controllers did not see any reason why they shouldn't let Gates have it, even though the Xerox developers tried to tell their bosses of its potential value.

Couple of points from Chris's latest video

Chris points out a great training film showing what every company is obliged to do in China, to stay on top of this virus. Spot on with every point. However, I did wonder about the mask that the narrator was wearing. It was an exercise mask and had something which I assume was a valve on it. Aren't these the worst kind of masks for reducing transmission, as they don't inhibit the exhale much?

The other point was Chris's mention of his belief that a better world is coming out of this. As far as I know, he hasn't presented any data for having such a belief. It would be great to hear what he thinks will change and why he thinks those changes will happen. Personally, I can't see any reason for optimism on that front (at least not for those alive today).

Moderna Vaccine has 20% “Serious” Injury Rate

The vaccine, developed and championed by Anthony Fauci and financed by Bill Gates, used an experimental mRNA technology that the two men hoped would allow rapid deployment to meet President Trump’s ambitious “warp speed” time line. Dr. Fauci was so confident of his shot’s safety that he waived ferret and primate studies (Moderna suspiciously reported no specific health data from its mouse studies). That appears to have been a mistake.

Moderna did not release its clinical trial study or raw data, but its press release, which was freighted with inconsistencies acknowledged that three volunteers developed Grade 3 systemic events defined by the FDA as “Preventing daily activity and requiring medical intervention.”

Moderna allowed only exceptionally healthy volunteers to participate in the study. A vaccine with those reaction rates could cause grave injuries in 1.5 billion humans if administered to “every person on earth”.

That is the threshold that Gates has established for ending the global lockdown. Moderna did not explain why it reported positive antibody tests for only eight participants.

These outcomes are particularly disappointing because the most hazardous hurdle for the inoculation is still ahead; challenging participants with wild COVID infection.

Past attempts at developing COVID vaccines have always faltered at this stage as both humans and animals achieved robust antibody response then sickened and died when exposed to the wild virus.

Lies, More lies, and damned lies

As fate would have it. My order for HCQ (along with others here) got cancelled by River pharmacy because India locked down before it could be shipped. Yesterday I called my local pharmacy and they said they had plenty but they would not sell it unless you alre

ady had a scrip for it. I called my insurance company to find out what their policy was. I have a drug plan with them and they have their own pharmacy.

My insurance company assured me they have plenty of HCQ. I just need to have a scrip from my doc saying why he is prescribing it. They will sell a 14 day supply for $6. Yep $6. I asked what the dose was and what was a 14 day supply. The dose is 200mg. And 14 day supply could be 1 a day or 14. or if the doc prescribes 2 a day 28. so it was $6 for 28 pills. If you were ordering for the first time that was their policy. Then you had to wait 180 days to reorder.

Bottom line it is cheap and plentiful. The lame stream media is not only scaring people about how dangerous it is but that people with lupus and arthritis will go w/o. We are being fed a steady diet of manure. It is enough manure to fertilize the entire plant forever.

kaimu said:

Aloha! First make sure your links on vaccines are not written by "anti-vaccine" political groups led by a Kennedy. After that then clear out the other profit biases like Bill Gates and Fauci. Never in history has big pharma opted for a $1 cure when they have $100 cures stacked up in their warehouses!

Revolution

I look at the revolutionaries, the social justice warriors, the Antifas and I respect them. For whatever reason they lost out on going through the system and getting to make their mark. They look at rich kids and the kids of rich kids and they see weakness, kids who never paid their dues for the advantages they have. The radicals believe they are exercising their rightful power. When you come down to it, isn't it always going to be survival of the fittest?

Apple

I was at a technical conference many years ago when a presenter was using a windows system on an Apple computer and she was marveling at how powerful it was to be able to link to inbedded and overriding screens. (There was nothing like this available on the PC.) To my knowledge Gates never sued Apple for violating a patent he had based on talking to Xerox people.

This is idiot logic - you cant take the monkey out of average people

I am not sure I can comprehend what the average person thinks.. I cant imagine living life with an IQ of 100 - and half the people have less than this.

( "Think about how dumb the average person is - half the people you meet every day are dumber than that" - George Carlin )

Anyway, drug safe for non-fatal illnesses like lupus and arthritis. But not safe for potentially fatal illness for 4 days of treatment. I cannot wrap my brain around this logic - mind all the evidence used for malaria.

I was just checking the weather and media still posting fake news.. What is worse the that weather.com publishes it as coronavirus myth or fact - like their facts are close to correct. Myth: there are no home remedies to treat the coronavirus - fact - there is no approved treatment for the disease. ( well the myth its not a myth - we treat all kinds of illness even the flu with home remedies- fluids, sleep are a home remedy. So vague and not accurate. You can treat a virus at home for sure. They say it like fact that no treatments at home work .. and that is the fact.. ) are they approved ? Yes, no one will tell you not take/drink extra fluid when you are sick - is it a home treatment? how about sleep and rest? I don't even need to go into evidence of nutrition etc here to disprove this. Next myth: can you get coronavirus from packages in the mail? etc.. , well I am absolutely sure that this virus has been proven to last longer on surfaces than the flu - so wrong.. its not a myth its a fact. ( their fact - the cdc says that virus is not very survivable on packaging - and risk is very very low - this CDC statement is absolute fiction ) Myth 3: You can get coronavirus from a pet. CDC - Pets are not a source of transmission and spread of the Coronavirus.. - again absolute fiction.. SO, their cheap little slide show is nothing but fake news - purposed as actual separation of fact from fiction.. like those facts are absolutes. Garbage journalism - I cant believe there are people who will publish such fake news.

Main Stream Media is the Servant of Pharma

Kaimu...

Main Stream Media are fully controlled now and will only report the propaganda spin and anyone who contradicts them can be simply dismissed as an "anti-vaxxer" or crazy conspiracy theorist. See how that works?

Robert F Kennedy JR is a hero in my opinion. There are very few people with the courage to stand up to Pharma. If you visit his Children's Health Defense site you will find article after article based on scientific research and factual information. The blatant campaign against Hydroxychloroquine doesn't even hold a candle to the fraud and misconduct Pharma has committed on the vaccine issue.

Listener Supported Alternate Radio Journalist Media - Pacifica

Hi You All,

The Pacifica Network is a good place to start to ween yourselves off of MSM.

https://pacificanetwork.org/

I am a listener/supporter of one of their 5 major radio stations (there are a bunch of affiliates too) KPFK in Los Angeles. Some of their show host's viewpoints are in support of vaccines and some aren't. Some say the virus has natural origins and some say origins are from a lab. Some think they are pro-science when they really aren't.

The point is, that the alternate voices are allowed to be heard as hosts or guests brought onto the shows and they get to speak their ideas and viewpoints for 20 minutes or more unlike the sound bit interviews a person will hear somewhere else or on MSM. Critical and skeptical thinking is supported and encouraged. You'll hardly ever, as close to never as you can get, hear that on MSM. Look for a Pacific station in your area and give it a listen.

Re Dr shiva - AKgranny

Yeah, Dr shiva came off way wrong. He even said some numbers that were not correct.. starting off with 16m (flu infections/ yr ) moving to 300k deaths ( in the world ) back to 18k in the US. Also, he makes it sound as if its not anything different than the flu. Its immunocompromized that suffer. not immunocompetent. But he is of philosophy about ( non-traditional medical ) boosting and making the immune system do what it was designed to do. not about medicine , not about vaccines. He does not differentiate between the flu and coronavirus here.. nor any other disease/ He is partially correct. There is a lot we can do to make sure our immune system are functioning as they should.. "enough vitamin d, zinc, C. etc. very hard in today's world of commercialized food" We also have to take additional things that from nature, with 1000s of years of empirical evidence, work...

regarding army study about flu vaccine increased risk of coronavirus

The are tons of studies that prove that vaccines increase your risk of novel virus. I am pretty sure this was not to be argued as the data was already accepted as factual. Meaning enough studies , and varying study designs , all confirmatory.

So, I take it as a matter of fact, that any vaxxing causes dysfunction of the immune system. How long do you cry wolf, or call the in the troops every time the tornado storm is just a drizzling rain, before you do not know what a real storm even smells , looks , sounds or tastes like? Basically vaxxing is like training your immune system chances are you will over-train ( react way too strong ) or under-train ( not -react - its just a drizzle again).

If you were to follow the pediatric vaccination schedule plus flu shots , you will sound the fire alarm about 2 times a month for the first 60 mos of your life.. basically your immune system is in 100% alarm. You think this is healthy? and productive for the immune system?

Mohammed Mast

Well, ditching taxes may happen organically with this new leg down! Somehow that does not seem to matter. I think they are going to print more money than what would come back in tax revenues - the way the Fed is printing.

Lies?

If you sashay on over to FDA.gov/drug shortages what you will find on that list is Hydroxy.In fact out of the 163 drugs listed,100 are short. The reporter of the USA Today piece is Dian Zhang, her job is data.Since 2008 newspapers have shed half of their newsrooms.Median income,40 grand.They were the people who let you know children were hungry,homes were being foreclosed and the selectmen were ripping off town money.Thanks to private equity stripping the model for parts and lost advertising we will never know those stories.Why not call her and give her your source?I have no doubt she would relay that to those who were suffering with lupus..That is her job.She is not some batshit basement blogger hustling colloidal siver or vitamins...

It’s not idiot logic to be cautious about drug risks

Anyway, drug safe for non-fatal illnesses like lupus and arthritis. But not safe for potentially fatal illness for 4 days of treatment. I cannot wrap my brain around this logic - mind all the evidence used for malaria.

Nordickak, I think you are missing a huge point. Just because a drug is ‘safe’ in Scenario A, you can’t assume it’s safe in Scenario B, especially when B is the HB virus which has serious and poorly understood effects on multiple organs and systems. We know that HB has cardiovascular effects, so it makes sense to be cautious with a combination of drugs, both of which are known to have heart impacts.
Think back to previous discussions about ibuprofen. This site warned people off using ibuprofen due to early speculation/evidence that this normally safe drug was causing significant problems in the context of HB. Was that idiot logic?
I would say not. Rather, Chris’s advice reflected a sensible adoption of the precautionary principle in the face of an uncertainty regarding an empirical question that could only be settled by further research.
The recent lancet study gives us an indication that there might be reasons to be cautious about HCQ/AZ. It may be a false reading, or may be about the timings, but it needs to be studied further.

HCQ test

Regarding the supposed testing of HCQ, it's possible to use a large number of "rats" to receive a placebo but where will a scientist get a large number of sick people to take a placebo and also be responsible for the outcome? Some will die. Will they volunteer? I wouldn't. But I suppose there are many who would.

Worldwide results, facts, are good enough for me. Costa Rica has had 10 deaths.

Lies

I don't think I will be sashaying anywhere. I don't consider checking FDA stats Pulitzer prize winning journalism. Based on the track record of media and the government I think I will trust info from my insurance company, my pharmacy, several Canadian pharmacies, and three of my doctors. The reporting on HCQ has been suspect in the least, and propaganda at the worst.