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Monday, September 27, 2010

Paternal Haplogroup - R1b1b2a1a2f

From Wikipedia;

R1b1b2a1a2f2

This subclade within R-L21 is defined by the presence of the marker M222. It is particularly associated with male lines which are Irish or Scottish, but especially northern Irish. In this case, the relatively high frequency of this specific subclade among the population of certain counties in northwestern Ireland may be due to positive social selection, as it is suggested to have been the Y-chromosome haplogroup of the Uí Néill dynastic kindred of ancient Ireland.[30] However it is not restricted to the Uí Néill as it is also associated with the closely related Connachta dynasties, called the Uí Briúin and Uí Fiachrach.[51] M222 is also found as a substantial proportion of the population of Scotland which may indicate substantial settlement from northern Ireland or at least links to it.[30][52] Those areas settled by large numbers of Irish and Scottish emigrants such as North America have a substantial percentage of M222.[30]

From Moffat DNA Project (familytreedna):

Irish 1 - Members of this cluster are descendants of the semi-mythical Irish King, Niall of the Nine Hostages or one of his male relatives. Niall is thought to have lived in the late 4th and early 5th centuries. His prolific descendants ruled Ulster and Leinster between the 6th and 10th centuries A.D. This cluster shares a common ancestor with the Irish 2 cluster between 4,500 and 1,500 years ago. Members of this cluster share a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) marker at M222. The subclade is formally known as R1b1b2a1a2f2 and is especially associated with Scottish and Irish populations. It is likely to have entered Scotland through the Dalriadic migrations of the 6th to 8th Centuries A.D. (see Irish 2 below). Both clusters share the L21 SNP mutation that defines their common subclade.

Irish 2 – A member of this cluster completed extensive SNP testing of his haplotype in late 2009 confirming that members of this cluster have the R-L21 mutation that characterises haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f. Members of this cluster share a common ancestor with the Ui Neill and Dalcassian Royal Families between 1,500 and 4,500 years ago in northwest Ireland, where these haplotypes are most prevalent. By ancient times, these Irish tribes had become a distinctly Celtic cluster of Iron Age farmers. They were known by Ptolemy, in the 2nd Century A.D. as the Voluntii. Modern scholars call them the Ulaid. By the 5th Century A.D., they had merged with surrounding tribes into a cluster called the Scotti, the people who gave their name to the modern nation of Scotland. Between the 6th and 8th Centuries A.D., this tribe established a kingdom on the west coast of Scotland called Dalriada. They eventually merged with the Picts to form the Kingdom of Alba, the precursor to medieval Scotland. It is very likely that members of this cluster came to Scotland between 500 and 700 A.D. from the region of Ulster, Ireland.

206 comments:

This is extremely interesting to me. I found that I am in the paternal haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f. And who would have thought I would find this info out by doing DNA testing for possible health concerns?! This is interesting as well because I have hit a wall in my family research just before the Civil War. This predates that tremendously.

Your result does not say you are M222. It says you are R1b-L21. R1b1b2a1a2f2 is M222 using older nomenclature. You have not been tested to that specificity. It is possible you are M222, but it is also possible you are DF21 or another subclade downstream of L21.

Maggie, the surnames for R1b1b2aa2f* seem endless. There is an online site where the man who runs the site claims it goes back to a small village in Ireland about 300 years ago. Most of the names were Cochran, Cockerman, etc.... Uploading the DNA from you and also from the male who has the Irish Y Chromosome to Gedmatch.com, my give you more matches. But the Y can easily go back a couple of hundred years and show no connection with your autosomal test results. Hosea

My husband has this haplotype and his surname on his paternal line is Miller. He descends from Henry Miller and Rebecca Boggs, who emigrated from Derry, Ireland in 1757. We are trying to find more on Millers from this area in Ireland / N Ireland and Scotland. His Millers were Scotch-Irish Presbyterians who came first to Lancaster County, PA and then migrated to Rockbridge County, VA. I am interested in sharing info with others interested in this line. Sharlene Miller smiller@stjoelive.com

My surname is BARKER and my paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f2, The problem is that I am not sure if "Barker" is the real surname for my paternal lineage.

My great grandfather Abijah Barker was an indentured child from an extremely young age. The story goes that he was so young when he went into service that he cold not remember his own name and took the name of his owner. I can't find any records about him or the Barker lineage earlier that 1860 when he first appeared in Camden, New Jersey, US.

We suspect he was sent over to the US from Ireland. The R1b1b2a1a2f2 haplogroup tends to support that.

Hi, I am Portuguese and also a r1b1b2a1a2f*, still not sure about the meaning of the * though. I grew up as the only blond kid in the village with light eyes (green), several of my uncles have blue eyes. Clearly there is very non Portuguese characteristics. Our family name is Martins Lisboa and we come from Serra da Estrela.

My paternal haplogroup is r1b1b2a1a2f* and my surname is Murray. My grandfather came to the U.S. (Gloucester, MA) from Argentia, Newfoundland. I have traced a couple more generations back in NF, but haven't been able to find the origins of my Murray family roots in Ireland. Now I have a better idea on where to look in Ireland/Scotland. Any other ...a1a2f Murrays out there?

Pedro, My father's mother was named Castello and I understand that the name came from Spain.

Re "Murray" my surname is "Morrison" which is found on the Isle of Lewis in Scotland. The Morrison clan "moved in" with the Murray clan after some clan warfare. The Morrison green tartan is the Murray tartan with a red stripe added. I also am from the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup and my paternal grandfather came from Woodstock in Ontario, Canada

Hi McGuinness, Sorry about the late reply, I just happened upon this website again and noticed I had posted something! My Dad is from Dundalk (b.1947), his Dad was from Carrickmacross. I'm pretty sure we have cousins up in Crossmaglen in Armagh. I think that Dad did some rudimentary family tree with cousins and all from that area, so I'll ask him to take a look. If you'd would like to email me at: tectonictom@gmail.com I can see if there's also a Malone/McGuinness link on our end. Regards, Thomas Malone, Christchurch, NZ.

I'm R1b1b2a1a2f*, our paternal name is McCreary and we can verify our paternal bloodline as McCreary/McCrery/McCreery back to mid-1700s in what is now Marshall County WV. Family lore is that our ancestors were Scots Irish, but I've been unable to make that connection.

We share the same haplo group and we have the Dickson/Dixon last name. Our family came from Scotland around Kirkudbrightshire area and moved to the Ulster Plantation in Northern Ireland (Newry) when the land was opened in Ireland for English and Scottish to settle.

I'm R1b1b2a1a2f* as well. I have particular interest in this haplogroup because my g-g-grandfather (born 1750 in Edinburgh, Scotland)was a bastard child raised by his maternal grandparents and took his moms name. I (being an addicted amateur genealogist)look forward to finding my paternal relation...

You are correct. R1b1b2a1a2f is just R1b-L21, it does not say you are also M222. This was a mistake by the original post response. There are quite a few subclades of L21. I am DF21, that is a subclade of R1b1b2a1a2f. Check eupedia r1b site out for a tree of r1b.

Surname is "White" and family lore was that the origin of the family was in Ireland. They lived in Stokes County, North Carolina as far back as the 1790s and prior to that are difficult to trace with certainty.

My father is from this paternal haplogroup as well. He is Oliver Miller White IV. He actually might be a fifth rather than 4th, but it seems that the 1st Oliver White left his family during the Civil War and his son was changed to 1st instead of Oliver M. White 2nd. My dad is a 3rd or 4th generation from New Orleans with Irish roots. The first Oliver M. White was from a northern state but not N. Carolina.

Arthur, you may be related to my husband. He is positive M222 and his 4th great grandmother is Dosha/Docia White. She was married to Aquilla Molen/Moulden/Malding/Molin. It's spelled differently all over the place. Her father is Jacob White and they are found in the late 1700s, early 1800s in Bedford County, Virginia. Court documents can be viewed at the Virginia Chancery courts on line.

Arthur, you may be related to my husband. He is positive M222 and his 4th great grandmother is Dosha/Docia White. She was married to Aquilla Molen/Moulden/Malding/Molin. It's spelled differently all over the place. Her father is Jacob White and they are found in the late 1700s, early 1800s in Bedford County, Virginia. Court documents can be viewed at the Virginia Chancery courts on line.

Hi, Chris. I suggest you upload your DNA to Gedmatch.com; it is free and compares DNA across the major testing sites. Once you have done this, do a "search" for "hosea" in your "One to Many" tool and if you and I are related I will appear; you may email me at the given address.Hosea

Above posts are incorrect. R1b1b2a1a2f means R1b-L21 not necessarily M222. It is the signature haplogroup for the insular celtic people of the British Isles and is very common in Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and Brittany. Check out Eupedia R1b

A Joseph Townshend/Townsend married into my Molen family. He married Priscilla Molen. They likely came from the same place originally since Irish stuck with the Irish back then. They were married around 1795 and lived in Virginia.

A Joseph Townshend/Townsend married into my Molen family. He married Priscilla Molen. They likely came from the same place originally since Irish stuck with the Irish back then. They were married around 1795 and lived in Virginia.

Like some of the previous commenters I'm R1b1b2a1a2f* too. My g-g-g-g-grandfather, William Graham was born in Killiecrankie, Scotland in 1744 and emigrated to America via Belfast, Ireland with two brothers sometime in the early 1770's. By the late 1790's William was living in Kentucky. I don't know what became of the two brothers but William had a large family and many of his descendants ended up migrating west across the country to Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Colorado, and California.

I just received my Y chromosome results from 23and me indicating that my paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f*.

While my maternal grandfather's mothers line were allCanadian Hebridean immigrants this would have no baring on my paternal line.

I was told that my earliest know paternal ancestor George Hamilton Warren was most likely a lineal descendant Of James Warren the Scottish captive. The battle in which the latter was taken prisoner was in the Scottish Borders which I believe is mainly Saxon? to allow the said prisoner to be a Celt kindred member?Norman . Would there have been enough Celts in the Border area

From what I the DNA testing of Britons has shown,is that Saxons were concentrated more on the East of Britain, while the Celts on the West (which makes complete sense, seeing as the Saxons came from the East). So there's more chance he came from the West side of the border lands. However, we are only discussing probabilities, so it doesn't mean that there weren't Saxons in the West or Celts in the East...

They say the common paternal ancestor of R1b1b2a1a2f comes from about 500 CE. So that's, what, like 60 generations ago? Given an infidelity rate of 2% per generation, I think there would be about a 30% chance of your surname coming from the common ancestor (if surnames existed then). If the infidelity rate was 3%, then that percentage would drop to about half of that.

Of course, our surnames originated hundreds of years after the common ancestor. There could be hundreds of surnames from this haplogroup. Unfortunately, most of those surnames do not even represent a direct paternal line.

Once you get to about 20-40 generations, it is just as likely you received your surname from someone who was not your biological paternal ancestor as it is that the man with that surname was your biological paternal ancestor.

Hi,I beg to differ. Here's why:R1b1b2a1a2f2 comes from Niall of the Nine Hostages, and he gave his name to what became the O'Neill clan (the most powerful ones in known Irish history, at that). Malones (O'Maileon), are said to have come from an O'Neill that joined the monastic ('mail') order of St John ('eon'). So, one would expect to see the R1b1b2a1a2f2 in a Malone. Sure, it could be that there was a g-g-g-g-g-grandmother who was infidel, or the victim or rape by someone of the R1b1b2a1a2f2 haplogroup, but this would be unlikely. The key thing is that I was aware that I was possibly a descendant of the infamous 'Niall' before I had my DNA sequenced; so, you can imagine how shocked I was when I googled "R1b1b2a1a2f2" and it attributed this haplogroup to 'Niall'. Furthermore, my research has shown that most Malones are R1b1. So, while not 100% conclusive, the evidence is still very consistent. Regards, Tom.

I am trying to sort out my family tree, with no determined parents.I am U4b1a1a1.The Y lines are mostly R1b1b2a1a2f* andE1b1b1a2* (also known as also known as E-V13*) ... which is apparently Jewish ?I have very few U4b1 matches to view as in the early hours of me getting my results a 2nd cousin hid her account and wrote that she would contacted all her relatives and contacts of this haoplogoup :-( so to protect a family secret about my origins :-(I am on gedmatch ans I am looking for someone who will assist me research this mystery.I am a female with 'honey blonde' hair and blue eyes, with many matches across Scandinavia, some in Russia, across northern Europe and Italy and Spain, and seems the Mayflower 'migration' families to America. And there are DNA cousins making ancestral claims to Dunster Castle (as in the Montagu line) and even to Windsor.

Well, I'm the only one among you for whom Irish ancestry was a complete surprise... My father's father originated from Russian peasants from Tambov region of Russia. Maybe some viking brought these genes from Ireland to that region of Russia. Anyway, I lived in Ireland for several years and I'm fond of all things Irish, so this is a pleasant surprise for me :)

my paternal uncle is the same haplogroup...and one of our lines traces back to Simmons/Symonds...my GG Grandmother was a Simmons - and her family goes back to Moses Simmons/Symonds born in Leiden Holland [1604] and came on the ship Fortune to the Plymouth Colony in 1621.MJ...no doubt we are cousins...way back

I have the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup. The family name is Simons. I grew up on a farm in northern Illinois. The paternal line is connected to the William Simons b. 1659 in Salem, MA. My genealogy guru sister hasn't broken through to any connection for William's parents yet. But I think from my English research, that he's related to the Symonds family in England. There was a offshoot of the family in the early 1600's that changed their first names and were extremist Puritans. A very likely group to travel across the pond at the time.

R1b1b2a1a2f* is my paternal halogroup. I am still learning a lot concerning genectics and such. My ancestors for at least the last 3 or 4 generations are from Kentucky. The last 3 generations mainly living in Southeastern Ky.Our surname is Cox. We are also closely related to the Parker family.If anyone would like information on my family tree I will gladly share.

Jack, I have just learned that my older brother and I do not have the same father. My Y testing at FTDNA shows that my line is most likely Cocoran, Cochran, Cockerman, etc... I would like to look at your GA relatives to see if any relate to me. Do you have an online tree? My email address is: hosea49@gmail.comHosea

R1b1b2a1a2f* is the Haplogroup used by 23andMe, on FTDNA, the labeling calls it R-M269, which I think is the newer system. Mine was changed by FTDNA, but later changed back to R-M269. If you have not uploaded to GedMatch.com, do so.I have learned that Haplogroups have little value except within immediate family members to determine is members are really in the same Haplogroup lines.Hosea

My last name is Papasavas, my father was Greek and all his relatives are from Greece. I tested at 23&me and fall into the R1b1b2a1a2f Haplogroup. I am trying to figure out how my father inherited this grouping.

probably through an adoption or infidelity, or premarital offspring, or a widowed woman with a fatherless child or even a sexual assault up in the lineage, and a subsequent adoption of the male offspring by the non-biological Papasavas father at some point - either way, it's a great bolt out of the blue!

Hello, Frank, I have a similar heritage My paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f – however, my great great grandfather hailed from a small seaport near Thessaloniki, Greece (Macedonia coastal area on the Aegean sea, Thessalonica, the second-largest city in Greece and the capital of the geographic region of Greek Macedonia).Orville Boyd Jenkins, EdD, PhD.’s research indicates: “It appears the Macedonians were a mixed people too, and various commentators mention their blondness and light colored eyes even for Alexander the Great. Some references indicate red hair also… It is likely they did carry a stream of Celtic genes and culture. Another ancient writer comments that the Thracians were blue-eyed and blond. Thrace is the area east of Macedonia, what is now the European part of Turkey across the Bosporus Strait from Istanbul, and was incorporated into the early Macedonian Empire. The Macedonians, an already-mixed northern group of Hellenic speakers who first united all the Hellenes in the Macedonian Empire, were dominantly blond.” “It is my reading of the historical indicators, however, that most of the current "blondism" in that region is attributable to the concentrated Norman (and perhaps Frankish along with other northern European Germanic peoples) infusion in the Middle Ages. These spread south and east during the era of the Crusades and the resulting Norman/Frankish kingdoms established in the Mediterranean and Middle East. The Normans were the last and most extensive Germanic group extending from their northern Viking habitat to the whole of Europe and much of Asia. Every royal family of Europe (excepting perhaps Turkey) has Norman heritage and genes. This is no secret. Hundreds and thousands of books have been written documenting this phenomenon and spinning out the stories and legends of the Normans. Normans and related lineages ruled Cyprus and much of western Asia for some centuries in the Middle Ages.” My mother’s genealogy on the other hand is very English, Scottish and French -- she is the 39 great granddaughter of John of Brienne – born in Champagne, France - but as I studied his history, John of Brienne went on the Crusades and became King of Jerusalem and Emperor of Constantinople in the 1200 BC -- who knows how many offspring these crusaders fathered as they sailed and conquered the lands on their way to Istanbul. My father had blue eyes and dark blond hair. -- his family's name was Avram -- son of Avram - surnames were not yet established in Greece -- so my grandfather was the son of his father's first name - Avramoff. - so I guess I am not totally surprised by the genealogy results, as my mother was attracted to his blue eyes. I am not totally flabbergasted that he is of this Irish, English, French descent -- R1b1b2a1a2f. I always wondered about my father's genealogy -- 23 and me has helped and I am so glad my brother was able to submit the test as he is the last of the male descendants. “You may not have my name but you have my blood ". So we enter the age that blood or actually DNA -- determines genealogical heritage -- it would be nice to have castles and land -- but I will take pride in my blue eyes, reddish blonde hair and freckles . My husband’s family originates from Caraloon, Magherafelt, Northern Ireland from 1750’s. So now I know why I have felt just as home as he did during our visits to Ireland and Northern Scotland :)

Just got my 23andme results. Preliminary results for the Paternal line have the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup... a big surprise to me, since as far as I knew my father's side was pureblood Acadien (they claim descent from Daniel LeBlanc, one of the original settlers of what is now New Brunswick).

Some research indicates this haplo can also be found in Brittany, though that's not the region of France I would expect (I'd expect Normandy, or central France).

Has anyone else heard or read about this haplo ending up in Acadien families? Or did one of my French Canadian great-grandmothers have a milkman from Nova Scotia (lol)?

I'm of the same R1b1b2a1a2f* group. I've commented earlier to a Symonds family reference earlier in the discussion. The interesting origin of the Symonds family in England is around the turn of the first Milena, Adam Fitz Simon was the 2nd son of a landed family in Normandy. Lucky for Adam, he married into an English family that ultimately became the Symonds. So through a torturous discussion, I'm suggesting that Normandy should not be counted out for your family origins yet, just because of the percentage of haplogroup would be rare.

Michael,I am Michael MacNamara and I live in Ireland. R1b1b2a1a2f* (and H14a) and I appear to be 100% Irish, at least from the 1700s. I live in Ireland now.

I lived in Acadie, in Fredericton and Amherst NS. I knew one family called Bourque. This was originally Burke as irish immigrants but before that was De Búrca. De Búrca was the Gaelicized version of the Norman De Burgo. This name had originated as French,became Irish and then Anglicized before returning to French. Excuse the longwindedness but I found lots of Irish names that had changed to French when they joined Les Acadiens. That would add paternal Irish DNA to Acadie and I think there was plety of that.mickmacnamara@yahoo.com

Just got my 23andme results. Preliminary results for the Paternal line have the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup... a big surprise to me, since as far as I knew my father's side was pureblood Acadien.

I am in the same shoes as you. We (Roy) family can trace our male side back 10 generations in Acadie. All Acadian family names, no Irish. It would be interesting to know the % of Acadiens who can trace their lineages through this male Haplogroup

My 23andme results show this haplogroup with a map of occurrences around the world. Around Quebec, the occurrence goes to close to 100%. I can trace my paternal lineage back 10 generations to Caen, on the north coast of France right across the English Channel. Since there are so many (approaching 100%) of male Quebecois with this haplogroup, it is evident that the haplogroup had migrated to this part of France and it had spread from that emigrant-producing part of France to Quebec.

I got R1b1b2a1a2f in my 23andme results as well, and interestingly my surname, though British, came with William the Conqueror from Brittany originally, and then settled in Devon/Cornwall for the last millennia. Absolutely zero of my paternal ancestry ever came from Ireland. Of the British stock on that side, which is only a slice of it, they were mostly Welsh/Southwest English.

I descend from Abraham Dugas of Toulouse, Fr and one of the first Acadians who settled in Port Royal, NS. I am also R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup. My grandfather, Thomas, was originally from Cape Breton, NS and my grandmother, from St Pierre, FR and her father was born in Brittainy, FR. Many of the original Acadians came from the Poitou region and Brittainy

I think we all tend to look too short term here...from what I have gathered, it is more likely that you need to look back about 10 generations to see where they were to get a more accurate idea of locations. But more clarity would be welcomed. I think the common thread is the UK...and that would then include Norman invasion and the French backgrounds too....

Hello Friends and Relatives,I just found that I am also R1b1b2a1a2f from 23 and me, surname of Hamilton, with suggested origins in Scotland and Ireland, emigrating to Canada in the mid 1800's and then on to gods country in Rhode Island,I am overwhelmed with the details and information gained, just from spitting into a tube and mailing it off.All the bestArthur Hamilton

Fellow R1b1b2a1a2f here. My surname is Wilkerson, and I can only trace my paternal line back to the 1720's in Virginia (Most of my Wilkerson line lived in Georgia). Like several people here, I was surprised to find such a distinctly Irish haplogroup, as I thought my surname to be Anglo-Norman (Wilkers, Wilkins, Williams, William etc etc). I've even traced the name back to a potential origin with the Norman conquest of Wales. But I suppose a patronymic surname is just that-- a name which can be applied to anyone, centuries after it's originator. I'm afraid the link between my surname and my genetic Irish history may never be edified.

Im an African American male. And tested my DNA to figure out which part of Africa my ancestors were from (since its pretty much impossible to trace without one). Nigeria and Congo were my results through 23andme. My overall results were 80% Sub-saharan African, 15% European, and 5% East Asian. MTDNA= L2a1c (My mom)Paternal= R1b1b2a1a2f (My dad)Does that seriously mean, that I have slight Irish ancestry? My family originates from South Carolina and Savannah area of Georgia.

Yes Irish and Scottish as I understand. 23andme gives a time frame of last "500 years." My family hails from Ireland ...and Scotland in deeper roots. Paternal line: R1b1b2a1a2f. Now you must celebrate St. Patty's day this year!

Jordan, back in the very early colonization of America, many Irish were sent over to the U.S. (as well as the Caribbean) as slaves, and many were slaves alongside the African ones that were sent here too, and many of them intermixed. Also, later, some Scots-Irish who came over were owners of slaves, and had offspring with some of them. Many African Americans, due to the intermixing that occurred here that did not get put in the history books, show some degree of European ancestry due to this. Some of my lines are Melungeon (from the French word "melange" meaning "mixed"), and we are the result of both poor Irish slaves and the offspring of plantation owners or other whites and their slaves, and back in the day, mixed folks were only allowed to marry other mixed folks. Very very few people on this planet are 100% anything, and even those that are will still show some genetic variances/variation from each other in their ethnic group.

My Paternal - R1B1B2A1A2F2Great-great grandparents were James and Anne (Fawcett) McCort. They were Presbyterians from Norther Ireland, James from County Fermanaugh, Anne from County Tyrone. Anne came to America with her parents in 1814. James came in 1818 or 1819. They were married in 1821. They settled first in Washington County Pennsylvania, but soon settled in the area of Steubenville, Ohio. James changed the spelling of his last name from MacCourt to McCort when he arrived from Ireland.

Frank,None of us can be absolutely certain as to the purity of our line of descent, and I'm certainly not implying anything untoward in yours. But in the late 19th & early 20th centuries passenger ships embarking for the USA from continental Europe would often stop off at various ports in the British Isles to take on additional steerage passengers. While the adults of various ethnicities would pretty much keep to themselves on the voyage, it's not hard to imagine a beautiful teenage Grecian lass catching the eye of a strapping teenage Irish boy. By the time they land in New York and go their seperate ways, the girl is with child. The family will, of course, raise the child as their own.

My R1b1b2a1a2f paternal halogroup surname is Pumphrey, and we've been traced back to the early 1400s, in Newnham and Little Dean near Gloucester in England. The name was originally "Pomfrey." The first Pumphrey in America built Burlington, West Jersey (now New Jersey) in 1678 with other Quakers, being among a second shipload of Quakers to arrive there after the first ship arrived in 1677. Migration was from New Jersey to Pennsylvania to Maryland to North Carolina to Kentucky for my line. From Kentucky, family lore has it that a father and his several sons intentionally split up and scattered with their families to different parts of the country, so that there are now little pockets of Pumphreys from my line living in far flung parts of the United States. My own Pumphrey ancestors stayed in Kentucky, however, where I was born in 1953.

R1b1b2a1a2f* results...... Curious what the * star means from 23andMe. My father's father's father supposedly came from Scotland with the last name of Roberts. Literally all I know. Does anyone know what the * designation means?

Here is the explanation from 23 and me: The naming of haplogroups is somewhat arbitrary. There are, however, a few rules. Most haplogroup names start with a capital letter (or two). Additional numbers and lowercase letters indicate haplogroups that are subgroups of the major haplogroup.All lineages of a subgroup share one or more mutations. Sometimes there are a few lineages that don't fit into any subgroup of a haplogroup. Since there isn't a mutation that links these lineages, they don't get their own subgroup. Instead, these lineages are given the main haplogroup label plus a star (*) to indicate that they are part of the main haplogroup but don't fit into any of the known subgroups. Example of these "star" lineages include I1* - the Mendels paternal haplogroup - as well as E1b1a8a* (Desmond Tutu) and E1b1b1c1* (Napoleon Bonaparte)."Star" lineages sometimes arise when a population grows rapidly. If your paternal haplogroup assignment ends with a star, your paternal lineage may have participated in such a population expansion. The age of the haplogroup indicates, roughly, when that rapid population growth happened.Sometimes research leads to the discovery of mutations that link several of the "star" lineages. When that happens the lineages get a new name and lose their "star" designation.We hope this is helpful to you.

In my family the paternal line here in America seems to be associated with the Welsh surname "Burton."

My maternal line is U5a1.

The company that analyzed my DNA describes U5a1 thus:"Today U5a1 is most commonly found in places such as Norway and northern Germany."

This is puzzling, since the maternal line is from Italy, presumably rooted there for many generations--but perhaps not! Perhaps the arrival is fairly recent. More research is needed to sort out that conundrum.

If you consider that Portugal, as seafaring nation, was trading with other Atlantic nations; it isn't hard to imagine admixture from the West of Ireland, in what is essentially the ancient equivalent of our main roads and railway lines. Galicia, just above Portugal, is the Celtic part of Spain, and they share many cultural norms with their British counterparts, so this makes absolute sense.

From what I have read Portugal is Basque country and Basque are linked to the Irish, scot, Brit Gaelic people. In Spain you will find circular walled villages on hilltops much resembling the early Irish/Scot hilltop villages, along with other cultural similarities. They lived somewhere around 500 BC??

My Dad's paternal dna came back R1b1b2a1a2f and the family surname is Page. We believed it to come from England, but only have the Page's back to Colonial America so far. Does this mean it most likely is Irish? What is the difference between R1b1b2a1a2f and R1b1b2a1a2f2?

R1b1b2a1a2f2 here. Daly surname. Dublin from father to at least as far back as 1850's. Before that (possibly) County Longford. Daly comes from O'Dalaigh - and the ones in Ulster descended from O'Neills & I suppose Niall or one of his brothers.

R1b1b2a1a2f* I think we are out of Wurtemberg, Germany, mostly. Ancestry.com leads me to believe the Fair(Fehr) family may have been part of the Anabaptist, Amish, Mennonite exodus in 1700's to Baltimore MD, on to Somerset, PA and Holmes, OH. Maybe the (*) explains the 1000 yrs back to King Niall

Possibly originally Rosser or Rausser though. I traced us back to Staffordshire in the 1820s; someone on ancestry.com traced a few more generations to Baden-Wurtemberg in the 1700s. Since I had no way of checking that other fellow's work, I *was* going to assume we were border Anglos. But if you're right, maybe he was right.

I am R1b1b2a1a2f2 from my paternal line (per 23andMe) and have the surname of BARKER. The problem is that "Barker" may not be the real surname of my paternal lineage. My Great Grandfather Abijah Barker was an indentured child and first showed up in an 1860 census at the age 5-7 living with a family with a completely different surname than Barker in Camden, New Jersey.

The family story goes that he was so young when he became indentured that he did not remember his own last name and took the name of his master. However, the name of the family with he lived in Camden, NJ was not Barker. It has been handed down that Abijah Barker may have come from Ireland, but I can find no records one way or the other about it. I cannot find anything about him or his lineage earlier than 1860.

So, knowing that I am in the R1b1b2a1a2f2 haplogroup tends to make me think that my Great Grandfather Abijah Barker really did come from Ireland.

Now, if there were only some way to figure out if Barker was his real last name....

Hi, My paternal name is Barker. The haplogroup is the same. I'm about ready to embark upon a genealogy journey but I do know my father's, father was a guard at the Tower of London. In about 1900 he told all of his sons to emigrate out of England...and they did. My grandfather went to Toronto and other brothers went to Boston and still one went to Australia. My father has been gone for six years but he always told us that we were the Barkers who were descendant of a famous Viking. Little did he know it was an Irish king...He loved the Irish and would be very proud.

Hello, Frank, I have a similar heritage My paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f – however, my great great grandfather hailed from a small seaport near Thessaloniki, Greece (Macedonia coastal area on the Aegean sea, Thessalonica, the second-largest city in Greece and the capital of the geographic region of Greek Macedonia).Orville Boyd Jenkins, EdD, PhD.’s research indicates: “It appears the Macedonians were a mixed people too, and various commentators mention their blondness and light colored eyes even for Alexander the Great. Some references indicate red hair also… It is likely they did carry a stream of Celtic genes and culture. Another ancient writer comments that the Thracians were blue-eyed and blond. Thrace is the area east of Macedonia, what is now the European part of Turkey across the Bosporus Strait from Istanbul, and was incorporated into the early Macedonian Empire. The Macedonians, an already-mixed northern group of Hellenic speakers who first united all the Hellenes in the Macedonian Empire, were dominantly blond.” “It is my reading of the historical indicators, however, that most of the current "blondism" in that region is attributable to the concentrated Norman (and perhaps Frankish along with other northern European Germanic peoples) infusion in the Middle Ages. These spread south and east during the era of the Crusades and the resulting Norman/Frankish kingdoms established in the Mediterranean and Middle East. The Normans were the last and most extensive Germanic group extending from their northern Viking habitat to the whole of Europe and much of Asia. Every royal family of Europe (excepting perhaps Turkey) has Norman heritage and genes. This is no secret. Hundreds and thousands of books have been written documenting this phenomenon and spinning out the stories and legends of the Normans. Normans and related lineages ruled Cyprus and much of western Asia for some centuries in the Middle Ages.” My mother’s genealogy on the other hand is very English, Scottish and French -- she is the 39 great granddaughter of John of Brienne – born in Champagne, France - but as I studied his history, John of Brienne went on the Crusades and became King of Jerusalem and Emperor of Constantinople in the 1200 BC -- who knows how many offspring these crusaders fathered as they sailed and conquered the lands on their way to Istanbul. My father had blue eyes and dark blond hair. -- his family's name was Avram -- son of Avram - surnames were not yet established in Greece -- so my grandfather was the son of his father's first name - Avramoff. - so I guess I am not totally surprised by the genealogy results, as my mother was attracted to his blue eyes. I am not totally flabbergasted that he is of this Irish, English, French descent -- R1b1b2a1a2f. I always wondered about my father's genealogy -- 23 and me has helped and I am so glad my brother was able to submit the test as he is the last of the male descendants. “You may not have my name but you have my blood ". So we enter the age that blood or actually DNA -- determines genealogical heritage -- it would be nice to have castles and land -- but I will take pride in my blue eyes, reddish blonde hair and freckles . My husband’s family originates from Caraloon, Magherafelt, Northern Ireland from 1750’s. So now I know why I have felt just as home as he did during our visits to Ireland and Northern Scotland :)

Hello. I took the test at 23andMe and I also had the paternal halogroup R1b1b2a1a2f. My last name is Davidson though and on this site. http://www.tqsi.com/davidsongenes2/results2.php?type=family there are no Davidsons the match. Could this mean I might not actually be a Davidson?

Hello all. I'm a R1b1b2a1a2f2. With all these Irish folks in this thread I can't believe I'm the first Kelly to post. I always knew we were from Ireland but still don't know where. Im in Tampa now, but my grandfather came from Philadelphia.

I'm R1b1b2a1a2f*. My paternal ancestors came from Machtlos, Germany in the province of Hesse. They arrived there in about 1700, and before that, they had been migrating around several small towns in the area (Blankenbach, Weißenhasel, etc.). My ancestor immigrated to America in 1881. Some of his Schmidt relatives also settled in Massachusetts and Washington DC in the mid 1800s. In Ancestry's Y-DNA database, all my related families who share a common ancestor with me before about 1100 AD are Irish/Scottish, and all the related families who share a common ancestor with me after about 1100 AD are a mixture of German/Italian/Lebanese. This leads me to believe my ancestors spent a long time in Scotland/Ireland, before one of them went to war (probably the Second Crusade?) which took him through continental Europe. He may have deserted and had children who spread out across Europe, or he may have had relations with several women along the way, leaving a string of biological sons throughout continental Europe who carried on his YDNA in Germany, Italy, Lebanon, etc.

I had my brother test initially with 23andme and he is R1b1b2a1a2f2, maternal J1c7. I had him test recently with ftDNA Y-37 and am waiting for those results. Our paternal surname is Dolan, and while family stories say we are Irish, I can trace our Dolan line to John Dolan b. about 1843 in Albany, New York...no other info. We have not matched any Dolan's at this point. Has anyone uploaded to GEDmatch?

My paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f* and contains the Irish surnames Traynor, McLaughlin, Doherty/Dougherty, McGonigle, O'Brien, Murphy, Ryan, and more. We know for a fact that the McLaughlins, Dohertys, and McGonigles came from County Donegal, in the extreme northwest of Ireland, so this makes perfect sense. The Traynors likely came from County Meath and the area around Dublin and the O'Briens possibly came from Co. Limerick or near Kilkenny.

I'm a McGonigal..spelling variation,but same origin...also R1b1b2a1a2f...Earliest known ancestor Hugh McGonigal born abt 1812...McGunigal spelling on 1841 census in Scotland...said he came from DERRY..but probably originated in Donegal.

My brother just got his results and this is our group as well. our surname is Herring and we're from Fort Smith, Arkansas. I am the family Historian, so to speak. Our Herring branch ends with our 2nd great grandfather. The only records I've been able to find with him are the 1850 and 1860 census in Fort Smith. One says he was born in Alabama, the other states it was Georgia. Cannot go any farther back than that.

My da's family settled in Arkansas, no redheads, tho, used to joke we were selkies.

It might be helpful, might not and kind of taboo to some people, but they were travellers, quit the life, roots extending to Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island (and Ireland, obv, but nothing so formal that we can say when and where).. in the states, found some cousins split between north carolina, south carolina and virginia with a couple testing sites, but nothing to fill in the blanks beyond what we knew.

Also, found a few angry people that don't much care for the named association... even if they were only listed as 4th cousins or beyond. ;p

My paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f*, and the surname associated with it is Putman, which is English. However, it seems the Irishness/Scottishness of the haplogroup predates the assigning of surnames in Britain (for tax purposes, following the Norman conquest). Not surprising, as people have been moving around and mixing forever. My [American] family identifies as Irish anyway, despite the English surname.

Joseph Sullivan. My paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f* from 23andme. My great great great grandfather (O'Sullivan) was from Inchinteskin, Cork, Ireland. I see many posts here from Portugal, Spain, Germany, and UK for the same haplogroup. Celtic tribes existed in all those in around 300 BCE. Celtiberian lived in the Basque area of Spain. Some allied with Carthage in the Punic wars against Rome. The Celts were often mercenary soldiers for other states as were the Irish many centuries later for the King of Spain. Irish troops formed a regiment in the Spanish Army of Flanders during the 80 years war in 1580. They were commonly known by the term "Wild Geese". Irish soldiers served in continental armies in the 16th through 18th centuries, so its possible that some of the R1b1b2a1a2f* folks are descended from Irish mercenaries who never went home, while others may be descendents of Celtic tribes in those regions of Europe. For example on my euro genes analysis on GEDMatch.com, shows the Iberian peninsula (modern Spain/Portugal) as a location where ancestors lived thousands of year ago, probably Celts or even earlier.

Alexander Nelson. According to 23 and me my paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f*. I can only track my paternal ancestry back to a Thomas William Nelson born 27 Jan 1862 in Kentucky, who died in Ripley, Missouri, and who was the son of a certain Sarah Ann.

Given the rumored sexual proclivities of the Irish King, Niall of the Nine Hostages, one should expect there are many bastard children or descendants of bastards who share this haplogroup, it may even be a defining trait with many generations of bastards who don't necessarily carry on their father's surnames. I know I'm one such wild oat of a man named Coughlin (or at least, rumored to be, without a DNA match how can I be sure?).

Recently received my 23&me results including Paternal Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f*, and over 50% British/Irish ancestry. Family name is Peavy (with spelling variants, Pevey, Peavey, Pavey, Peevy, et al... with some thought that it might be a shortened form of a longer name Peverly, Peverell). My brother's Ancestry.com results also show Irish ancestry. My brother is a seasoned genealogist tracing our family tree back 10 generations and we always thought our ancestry was largely English, but this is the first indication of Irish ancestry. It's interesting, and it raises more new questions than answers!

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My surname is Hammer, and I have the R1b1b2a1a2f* as my paternal haplogroup. I live in Texas, and can only trace back my heritage to Kentucky in the early 1800's. I was always told I had a lot of Scots-Irish. I think I look more like an Irish-Spanish mix though. Dna testing from 23andme doesn't list any Iberian blood, though there seems to be some history with this haplogroup in regards to Irish and certain parts of northern Spain, so that is interesting.

23andme breakdown has me listed as specifically 60% Irish / British (they don't separate that), 10% French / German, 3.5% Norwegian and the rest general Northern European up to 99%. My maternal group comes from Germany. So I wonder how this works with my more white-olive skin color than what might be expected with those genetics.

Brian, have you uploaded to GedMatch.com? It is free and compares results across the three major testing sites. Going by Haplogroups is usually not useful unless you are comparing with brothers, uncles, or other close family members. There are too many NPEs(Non-parental events). Hosea

I am R1b1b2a1a2f*. I am a 6th-generation Canadian (and likely more). Paternal line stops at my g-g-g-gf Brymer, born in Nova Scotia, Canada, in ~1796 (have hit a wall). He listed his racial origin as Scotch in a census.

Interestingly, Brymer is a Scottish name meaning someone from Brabant - the Low Countries (ie. Netherlands/Belgium). So my two theories are: (1) my ancestors were from the mainland (France/Germany general area) before moving to Scotland and then getting their name, or (2) they were in Scotland before (or Britain in general) before moving to Netherlands/Belgium and then back to Scotland and then getting their name.

One of my questions is this: is R1b1b2a1a2f* Basque or Germanic stock?

You and I share the same Haplogroup, but so do many others. On FTDNA, they use a different system and there my Haplogroup is R-M269. On the R1b1b2a1a2f*, if you Google it you may find a website run by a man who sells related items and claims the Haplogroup goes all goes back to one clan and one town in Ireland. Haplogroups are pretty general or at least most of them when it comes to "where" did they come from. I believe there were Irish workers in the Canary Islands at some point and they certainly changed some people's view on Haplogroups. Haplogroups are very important if looking at members of the same family, such as males to see if they all follow the same line, there are probably more NPE (non-parental events) than most people would like to know about.Hosea

My brother has tested in 23 and me asR1b1b2a1a2f*. Our surname is Price Our Prices were in Missouri and Arkansas.Our family has the memory of coming from Ireland. Yet, I thought our name was from Wales "Ap-Rhys"?

Gina, Haplogroups seldom have a lot of value except within close family relatives, checking to see if siblings have the same parents. Any even that can be off as there are millions of people with the same Haplogroup. I have read that the Haplogroup I share with your brother and others on this site goes back to a small village in Ireland and the surnames are variations of Cockerman, Cochran,etc... My last name is Jones, but I think it is most likely Thistlewood, so if the theory that it should be Cochran is correct it means at some point a woman in my line had a child by a Cochran, but he was raised in my case as a Thistlewood. My testing to the Y-111 has not been very helpful as there are too many variations in surnames.

Hello, my yDNA =R1b1b2a1a2f*Family goes all the way to Spain and Italy. It stops in Sanremo, Italy, where we can trace our great grand parents to the Ricarddi Family. I don't have more information.As per FTDNA I am: 61% European

Surname KEETON. Per 23andMe, R1b1b2a1a2f* Per ftDNA, "predicted" as M269. Requested R1b-L21 SNP Pack to confirm L21. KEETONS/KEATONS have been in USA since probably 1600s. Expectation is British Isles origin.

My brother also has this ydna haplogroup therefore so do I. Our surname is Sullivan. Most were born in San Francisco since 1870's. Most records lost in 1906 fire and earthquake. Not sure when family immigrated. Suspect it was after potato famine. Do have a cousin on grandfather's side named Campbell but know little of him. Mom always said that Spaniards mated with Irish during Spanish Armada. Perhaps that is why this group stretches so far. Just an Irish tale.

Surname Reynolds, R1b1b2a1a2f*. I can definitively trace my ancestry back to 1505, East Bergholt, England, and quite loosely (and highly questionably) back another 10-ish generations in England. My line came to North America aboard the English ship "Francis & John" in 1621, landing in Virginia. Through the generations my family moved from there to the Carolinas, Georgia, a long spell in Kentucky, Montana, and now Washington state where I was born and live.

My brother's 23andme came back R1b1b2a1a2f*. Surname is Landfair, formerly Lanphear or some other variation. I can only go back to our g-g-grandfather Norman Landfair in Western PA. I would love to be able to go farther back. Always heard he was German, but recent research has led me to believe that he may have been at least half Scotch/Irish. Any info on this surname is appreciated. joanne.landfair@gmail.com

My brother's 23andme came back R1b1b2a1a2f*. Surname is Landfair, formerly Lanphear or some other variation. I can only go back to our g-g-grandfather Norman Landfair in Western PA. I would love to be able to go farther back. Always heard he was German, but recent research has led me to believe that he may have been at least half Scotch/Irish. Any info on this surname is appreciated. joanne.landfair@gmail.com

I'm male and 23andme came back saying that I'm R1b1b2a1a2f2 and my Surname is "Gates".

My Father did his 111 marker DNA test and it has an exact match with the surname of Campbell also another man with the surname Lindsey.

I don't know much about my Great Grandfather Thomas B. Gates parents. So my line stops there until I can get more information. As far as we can tell Thomas died around 1906 in a little town on the Missouri/Arkansas border.

Joey, try uploading to Gedmatch.com. It is free and will give you more relatives and lots of little programs you can run. Also, you get real email addresses and do not have to go through the message system at 23andMe, where many people do not respond. Also, if you can find some of your Dad's cousins, then it will confirm your direct line back through your father. I have seen too many "Non-parental Events" in my research. Finding Paternal cousins will be helpful as some of them may have trees going back beyond Thomas B Gates.Hosea

Joey, try uploading to Gedmatch.com. It is free and will give you more relatives and lots of little programs you can run. Also, you get real email addresses and do not have to go through the message system at 23andMe, where many people do not respond. Also, if you can find some of your Dad's cousins, then it will confirm your direct line back through your father. I have seen too many "Non-parental Events" in my research. Finding Paternal cousins will be helpful as some of them may have trees going back beyond Thomas B Gates.Hosea

Hello, I'm of the R1b1b2a1a2f haplogroup and my biological surname is Donahue. We go back to County Kerry, Ireland being descendants of long time rulers and kings. I'm a distant cousin of the current Gaelic Chief, Geoffrey Paul Vincent O'Donoghue of the Glens.

Raymond, it is my understanding that your Haplogroup and mine go back to a small village in Ireland with people with the surnames of Cochran, Cocherman, etc... I was told that at one time Irish laborers were sent to the Azores and the Canary Islands, but have not seen that documented.Hope this is helpful. Be sure to upload to Gedmatch.com, it is free.

Just to throw another name into the conversation - my dad is r1b1b2a1a2f* per 23andme, surname Owens. His 5th great-grandfather was John Owens, who migrated from Ireland - we know not where - to Maryland in the early 1700s and worked his way west to western PA. He was an Indian trader. His son and grandson ended up in WV along the Ohio River - Tyler County.

Just to throw another name into the conversation - my dad is r1b1b2a1a2f* per 23andme, surname Owens. His 5th great-grandfather was John Owens, who migrated from Ireland - we know not where - to Maryland in the early 1700s and worked his way west to western PA. He was an Indian trader. His son and grandson ended up in WV along the Ohio River - Tyler County.

Hello, I am unaware of my father or his families history I am just starting to find this information out via 23&Me myself, R1b1b2a1a2f* my mother and her family are from the NE Philadelphia and NJ area

Wayne, using Haplogroups to research is not very useful, but if you wish to check people within your immediate family, it works well. I recommend that you upload to GedMatch.com as it will give you a list of relatives from the three major testing sites. It is also free, but they welcome contributions. They also have a list of other useful tools.Hosea

When you enter your # in the first tool, which is one to many, do a search for "hosea"; I manage several profiles and that will be in my email address. Most likely there will be no match, but one has to try different things to make headway.If my email comes up in a "search", using the F and Control keys, then please email me.Hosea

When you say you have gone back to Joseph de Esquivel, is that in a straight Paternal line using your info from your Y Chromosome? I have been told that Irish workers were in Spain and the Canary Islands and if you have Spanish connections that could be the cause of your Irish Haplogroup. Have you uploaded to Gedmatch.com?Hosea

Hey James Davis - Laurie Davis here...obviously same surname [yes my father is Davis] and same Y-DNA...so...have you joined the Family Tree DAVIS surname project?? My DAVIS surname arrived 1635...into Massachusetts. Or might you have uploaded your DNA to GEDMATCH?? we could be cousins... ;)

What a huge & diverse range of responses. My family name is Gray and my haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f* and my paternal line has been traced back to 1695 in Sunderland, Durham, England. I'd be interested to know if others have that precise haplogroup and location, or proximity. There's some suggestion earlier generations may have come from Northumberland or Scotland, but I have no proof-certain records to confirm that ascertion.

Earl, my Y Chromosome has been tested to the 111 level. I thought it would reveal my line, but it does not. I have pages of various surnames and a number have Cochran or Cocherman variation surnames. I Googled our Haplogroup and found a website where the man claimed our Haplogroup came from a small Irish town 300 years ago. There are at least 3 Non-Parental Events within three generations of my family who have tested. Lesson learned: our paper trees are interesting, but do not always match our DNA trees. If you have not uploaded to Gedmatch.com, I suggest you do so. It is free. The best use of Haplogroup is to test close family members. My two brothers have a Paternal Haplogroup different from mine...thus they are half brothers.Hosea

Of course Surnames are a modern addition in the scheme of things, so finding same haplogroup distant relatives is going to be a long shot. In fact, there's more chance that those of different names who share the R1b1b2a1a2f* are related it seems. I've uploaded my DNA to gedmatch.com, however the greatest frustration is that the closest possible relative wants to remain private.

Earl, do a search (PCs: Ctrl + F) in your one to many at Gedmatch for "hosea" and see if I show up. Probably not, but worth a try. Or try one of my two Gedmatch #s: A158276; M342335.I did not know that Gedmatch allowed "Private". Did you take the private kit# and yours to run the comparing two kits numbers?Hosea

My last name is Ward, I got from my uncle (also Ward) that our paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f* (I am female but I figured mine would be the same as my dad and his brother). The Wards in my family did come from Ireland before coming to New York. I believe they were from county Cork. My grandfather was 100% Irish but born in the US. I grew up in New Jersey.

My last name is Ward, I got from my uncle (also Ward) that our paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f* (I am female but I figured mine would be the same as my dad and his brother). The Wards in my family did come from Ireland before coming to New York. I believe they were from county Cork. My grandfather was 100% Irish but born in the US. I grew up in New Jersey.

R1b1b2a1a2f* Surname of Redd, past 4 generations of Redd from the Brookhaven area of Mississippi. Last known ancestor was Jackson Redd (unknown birth) with a child of William Jabus Redd (1850-1930) who did in the Brookhaven area

I do not know if this blog is still active, but I took a test on a one name project in 2008. This gave me a haplogroup R1b1c7 (M222?)and stated that I was of the Ui Neill clan. Is this true and what is M222? Thank you.

My Bryan/Thistlewood surnames were mainly in central GA. Many moved westward to TX and one branched to AL and another to FL. Yes, Bryan and Bryant sometimes used by siblings. The TX branch were mainly Bryant. If you upload to Gedmath.com then looked for my #s:A158276; M342335, then email if we are a match. Gedmatch is free and compares results across the major testing sites.Hosea

Interestingly, you do match with my wife. She and I have some common Clark relatives but so far back I cannot figure it out. Her #A510786. Do a "Search" under your # for her, or do the comparing two kit #s. I will look at this more today if there is time.