i am not sure what to think about a game that has to improve there early play before the game has launched, on one hand it does show they are listening to there player base, on the other hand it shows a lack of quality standards,i will probably not be trying this game till after TSW and GW2, i may even try PSO2 before i try this one

Open beta is on the 20th, give it a shot, what do you have to lose?

I mean its free to try the open beta, and there is not much else going on right now... I mean PSO2 looks decent enough I guess but I'm sad they don't have a multi platform at release game... TSW isn't in open beta right now and neither is GW2 you'd have to buy it to try it.

Seems like giving it a try can't hurt ya!

If you like it look me up I'm recruiting for my guild :-D would be more than happy to help you out.

trying it this weekend, any particular server at this point, or is that irrelevent?

I actually made it to 50 with my SIth Sorc on a normally above averager server pop. I loved doing Heroics and was able to do so on the first two or three planets, after that, not one, I mean not one. I wound up trying to do 2 Man Heroics solo. To me, the biggest problem was not being able to group past level 25 or so, not the ease of the leveling but the emptiness and linearity of the game. Other than the occasional Datacron hunt, there was very little enjoyment trying to create a new alt after the Legacy. How many times am I going to do the same quests without gauging my eyes out. Great solo game, very little group interaction, no replayability.... so sad, what potential this game had.

I have to laugh at all the MBA's from Wharton on MMORPG with your astute finacial advice based on hearsay and loathing of a game. I'm surprised EA doesn't come here for their quarterly analysis. I'm sure after this "suposed" financial calamity, they'll be quite fine.

WoW was really only groundbreaking in the amount of players it attracted. Everything it did was borrowed from titles before it. It was the first polished MMO to hit the scene and has become a sort of social phenomenom that I think is more akin to the booming social products of the web (Facebook, MySpace, etc) than a real MMO phenomenom (I say this because WoW didn't really bring anything new to the genre).

If you are/were too young to experience WoW from the beginning, I would venture to say that what you REALLY missed out on was the MMOs before that (UO, EQ, etc) and how they really came out of nowhere and created this industry you see today. Those titles, and ones like it are really the most significant...

Edit: not meant as a Troll post, simply voicing an opinion. I tried WoW a few months after it was released only because my MMO friends at the time pretty much universally agreed at the time that it was mediocre, at best. When I tried it, I did appreciate the community size and the level of polish it brought.

Before WoW all MMOs made you grind a lot. There were very few quests and in order to level up you had to camp monsters. It were indeed exciting times.

So before WOW => no quests. After WoW => every MMO has quests. How's that for a genre changing thing? WoW also improved on a lot of features from other games. You don't need to reinvent the wheel to bring something to the genre.

We are happy to announce that we are starting to make progress in the neutralization of the Rakghoul Plague Outbreak. It is our hope that the outbreak will be completely contained by April 24th at 2AM CDT (12AM PDT/3AM EDT/8AM BST/9AM CEST/5PM AEST). Citizens have until this time to completely avoid Tatooine and to not engage in investigations of suspicious wreckage on its surface.

Thank you.

not only will I completely avoid Tatooine, I'll completely avoid SWTOR even beyond the 24th.

Maybe is nostalgia and maybe its because it was my first experience on a MMRPG but man...that was epic.

The trains in crusbone, the corpse runs, getting lost in that huge and dangerous world (because no UI map), trying to pass through Kiticor Forest before the night comes, the raids to the plains, the good old friends......oh those were the days....

World of Warcraft-The MMO with training wheels or the MMO for droolers, this MMORPG single handely took the MMORPG behind a shed and raped it,once a genre of virtual worlds and turned them into an instanced lobby games, made accessible (dumbed down-ezmode) and started a neverending nightmare for years till this very day of studios and greedy publishers churning out clone after clone hoping to lure customers into a van and have their way with them to find out that their game is just like WoW , why did we need another training wheels MMO when you have one that's more established? There is only so many gamers out there don't you think its time to start making unique MMOs again?

Seriously I think for all the clones out there including WoW , when are people going to get tired of this same treadmill: Level, Raid, PVP. Don't get started on crafting cause that's a laughable joke now. Thousands of great ideas and lots of great features from older MMOs and all that devs can come up with today in modern MMOs is kill, rinse,repeat? What happend to the social side of MMOs, the minigames, the communities? The non-combat activites? Non-Combat roles?

Age Of Conan- Hyped to no end, a once mighty hype machine, hyped and brought to you by the same people that hyped, Warhammer, TOR, and now GW2, this crowd follows all the new shinies, but in the end this game failed to live up to expectations and let a lot of people down, but don't forget the good times like the time after launch a GM was caught cybering a player. At least that was worth some chuckles.

Warhammer-From the people that brought you Dark Age of Camelot (an actually good MMO) how could this go so wrong, a pvp centric MMO which once again failed to live up to expectations, which resulted in failure, flash to today certain former Mythic Devs now work on TOR , which once again didn't know how to deliver even a decent PVP experience (thats for the next entry below) this game hangs on life support, but that didn't stop the hype machine before it was released and that same bandwagon of fanbois have faded away and jumped onto the next big game.

Star Wars The Old Republic- Once again history is repeating itself once again just with a different studio (Bioware), but with an old pedophile uncle (Lucasarts) and a new gay uncle (EA) behind the scenes to ruin another Star Wars experience in the name of chasing WoW numbers.

Once again the hype machine has tempted fate once again with people's minds. Where do you even begin with this train wreck, with the recent pull of ranked warzones a few hours before the 1.2 deployment , the powers that be are desperately trying to save this sinking ship, from a huge budget that went into VO's and cutscenes so players can just wear their spacebar out by skipping that "Fourth Pillar" something that's only good one playthru the rest of the game and MMO part is lacking or just isn't there.

Made for the ultra casual there really not that much there after leveling your first toon to justify paying a monthly sub to this game, also as many are waiting for that next quarltery report on how the 1.7 million players are still playing the game when the complaints on the offical forums are still there about low populations, but that's ok somehow they will manage a way to make it seem that there is a 100% rentention rate when that really isn't the case, hell their even giving away a free 30days game time if that doesn't ring alarms I don't what will.

Bioware really doesn't know how to make a MMO worth playing and I hope its the last time they make one cause in the end their 4th Pillar of Story didn't cut it to a growing number of people out there.

Vanguard:Saga Of Heroes- A good MMO on paper, horribly implmented, rushed to release , left to die like a hooker in a alley, neglected till this day, buggy, the game still has a lot of promise and worth a play , but not worth now inviesting time into when it could be next on SOE's chopping block. I do actually like this game but I think with the right people developing and with some TLC this could of been a real hit with people. Just another case of bad managment and Brad Mcquaid and of the guys at SOE (go figure)

APB- Enough has been said about this game that was shut down in what 2 months? By far the biggest failure in MMO history.

Alagnon- I remember the days of certain posters were trying to push this game on these very forums to other people, pushing how the game was so unique and so different and was for the causal player that didn't like to grind and do things that take time to do , so after was all said and done this became the epitome of what a WoW clone was, and a special guest suprise from the legendary flame war master Derek Smart, his antics for a small bit made me go to the Alagnon forums with popcorn to see if he popped off to anyone just to give me a giggle or 2. Ever since then to this game I havent heard a peep about this game making any kind of ripples, guess people didnt' really want another WoW clone did they?

Earthrise-Was in Beta for this game, another game that had great potential was squandered away, extremely unstable, buggy, devoid of content, and was recently shut down due to lack of interest.

Star Wars Galaxies-By far my favorite MMO of all time, and in opinion makes TOR look like the Special Olympics of MMO's, I have criticisms of my own favortie MMO, ahead of its times, a unique MMO even up till its closure in the sea of mediocrity and trash it is one of the 2 MMO's that held my subscription for years on end/

Highly mismanaged by SOE and its pedophile uncle (Lucasarts) ruined twice by changing the game as everyone knows the story. Launch was a bugged filled mess, connection loss, crashed servers, there was lots to complain about especially in the first 2 yrs it was devoid of content, of course the mystery in the early days of unlocking that force sensitive slot was quite fun, the crafting kept you busy, ruinning a business, and socializing witha great community was what made the game,but it lacked things to do quests, more fun things as some players of that type began to express their concerns people started to trickle out. That content didn't really come till post NGE 2 yrs after the NGE hit the servers, the game became flush with things to do. The game went from a sandbox to a pure hybrid , what a lot of people didnt give SWG a fair shake after the NGE. I was upset as well, making Jedi available to everyone , removing professions pissed me off to no end.

I stuck it out post-NGE, the game did get better, I think if it wasn't violated by SOE/LA I think the game wouldn't been shut down and still around today with people playing it regularly instead of playing its retarded cousin (TOR)

I've read this post three times for sheer enjoyment, one of the best, EVER!

hate to see a Star Wars Title fail, but let it go, pass it on to Free to play and start again, this time creat a Galaxy Far far Away, not a handfull of planets the size of an Urban back yard and expect players to have fun for years. Sorry, Stupid EA Exec's

Hi, i would like to keep this post short because i know long posts scare people and they won't bother to read it. I would like to mention some serious oversgihts and blunders made in PVP in patch 1.2

- (1) No Penality for leavin warzones. Yes you can just leave as many warzones as you like if you are not winning.

- (2) Harsh penalities on loss which ls directly connected to the above point and rest of the points below.

- (3) Too much focus on getting medals. After 1.2 in order to get most commendations you have to get most medals which can be accumilated through defense points, killing blows,planting bombs, scoring goals etc. Although nice in theory to work as a deterrant against those who just want to afk and leech off others, it has failed big time in practise.

Why? because if you are on losing side the best option is to turtle close to turrets and doors and try to get as many medals as possible. The end result is same people going afk but this time close to defense objectives.

If you get less than 3 medals you get zero commendations, zero XP and zero cash. getting 3 medals net you around 15 to 20 commendations and to get 40+ commendations you need 8 or more medals. Result is that people are too worried about losing medals and there is lot more turtling than fighting. Healer and dps usually just rush to turrets and refuse to move if they know they are going to lose, so why not get atleast 3 medals? or go home empty handed.

This problem gets more serious when you are constantly matched against premades in full BM and Warhero gear. You have no chance to win so either turtle to get 3 medals or quit the match..which takes us back to the first point i made.

- (4) After 1.2 matches do not close down if you enter a warzone with less players. So either you toughen it up and keep fighting outnumbered or lose and go home with zero rewards or.... get measly 10 to 15 commendations because you failed to get enough medals.

- (6) Huge nerf on cash from PVP. Now even if you hate PVE well suck it up, grind PVE dailies. There is no option or choice anymore.

- (7) Insane amount of money sink in 1.2. Simple legacy gear costs around 500 to 600K for full set. Taking mods out of BM gear will set you back with 500K. Things like mail box in your ship and droids for repare costs cool 1 to 2 mill credits. Legacy unlocks can go up to 1 mill and over. Things like cutting your cool down on fleet pass can cost a million or more.

Nerf to PVP cash has just made it a huge grind for PVP players. PVE players are still fine.

- (8) Still with me? if you want to PVP roll biochem. Since the commendations have been nerfed and healers have been nerfed further. You will have to spend a lot of commendations on stims from PVP vendors for survival. Who would want to do that when commendations are hard to come by and you would rather save it for gear instead of spending it on stims and medpacks?

- (9) Due to people constantly leaving matches, if you replace one of them or join in late and lost you will again get zero in everything. Apparently you didn't have enough time to win minimum of 3 medals by defending, killing blows etc.

So who is benefiting the most out of 1.2? people in full BM / Warhero gear rolling in premades. (Yes i have full BM gear too). I am all about penalities for loss and giving more rewards to winners but why put such harsh penalities that your progression comes to a halt which only further helps in increasing the already widening gap between those who are well geared and those who just started PVP at 50?

Before this patch we thought BW is making right move and will help players gear up faster so that the only thing differentiates them is skill. I love progression and i love playing for incentives too but at the same time i would also like to have matches where players are on equal footing in terms of gear.

The current system discourages anyone who was unable to get BM sets pre 1.2. Penalities are too harsh which has made PVP a big pain. Why break something which was working just fine? right now we are playing a half system because ranked warzones didn't make it in last patch. Why not just release it in full form rather than aggraveting current PVP player base?

P.S : The reason i made this topic here is because i got sick of general attitude of fans on SWTOR forums. All valid concerns are being dismissed as whining and crybabies. I know this website isn't a fan site so i am hoping to get more balanced thoughts on this. I would really appreciate your contribution and hope this won't turn into SWTOR sucks and BW is fail topic. Keep discussion free of flames please.

I repeat again i am wearing full BM gear and as of 1.2 i have stopped doing premades because i know it is unfair to those just starting out. i am not looking for welfare epics or easy loot either. I just want to know if others feel the same... that with 1.2 whatever PVP was left in swtor is going to end up dead?

edit; Ahh crap i couldn't keep it short now could i? /sad face

waaaaaa! j/k, I'm over there, as well. The only ones who will be left playing this horrid mess are the one's you just mentioned.

Yup. I admit it. I resubscribed on 14 April 2012 with a 3-month reoccuring subscription. the thing that absolutely drove me up the wall and made SWTOR an unmitigated disaster from day one was the inability to manipulate UI/HUD elements. True, Bioware's pre-released video guide on the 1.2 Patch on the UI was rather condescending and patronizing, but that's another story. The customers were actually listened to and provided with the changes asked for. Unbelievable that this was not provided at release, but you can't have everything. Now, if they would only fix crafting ( like SWG), housing (again, like SWG), Space (like SWG or even EVE), and PvP (even LOTRO has better PvP and that's not saying much)- why, they'd have an even better hit! Praise the Valar!

uh, i mean, may the Force be with you.

I'm happy for you, wish I could feel the same way, just can't. Have fun!

You have been corrupted by WoW, so almost no other game will keep your attention for long.

Try to get into TERA open beta and decide for yourself if you want to play the game for longer than 30 days. I will warn you though, it will be a grind-centric game during end-game to get your items to their maximum capacity, but the pull of the game is the combat.

Remember, games are like Ice Cream... most of us tried vanilla first, and while we go to many other flavors, its vanilla we keep going back to. WoW is your vanilla... learn to like other flavors.

exactly. I have a beta invite for the 20th which is when I'll decide hot to proceed. No pre order needed as I have not done so, yet. I'm trying to get the taste of SWTOR out of my system, need a shower!

Bioware acts so wierd. I've never heard of something like this before.

Really? Winback promotions are as common as dirt. I have companies calling me every week. I wish they would stop. If they wanted me for a customer they wouldn't have treated me like shit to begin with. Not that Bioware has ever been unreasonable, cable/ sattelite companies sure are.