Potentially it could be though. It's like the dota example I used. Log in with a couple of friends, relatively quick que times, relatively quick matches, no prolonged attachements you don't have to sit at your pc for 3 hours you can come and go within the match times. it's more bit sized. That's the hardest part about making casual content and pvp already has that.

The rest of the stuff needed to fix pvp for casual is alot of work but I do think some of the changes made in 5.3 are for the better. Key binds is definitely an issue. Dota has depth of play but it's different it's not 30+ keybinds. Most heros have like 2. It's hard to explain. Dota is on the surface very simple but it has layers.

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I'm sorry if I've come across that way. I'm positive raiders (many) have said the same thing and in this case you can't catagorically state they haven't anyway. You can't make that guarantee since you don't A. Know how I "appreciate" blizzard (as if I had to or as if they cared if I did or not) or B. How raiders appreciate Blizzard on the whole. I"m sorry your argument is even on the face of it absurd.

Well in the same you A) don't know what you are talking about B) talk out your ass over and over again C) Think you know it all and no one else does.....hows that? hit it right on the head?

Why? Trying to get them to change the game to my preferences would be highly beneficial for me, no reason for me to stop, very much reasons for me to keep on whining until they give what it is I'd enjoy most out of the game. Why does it bother you when other people get to do stuff they enjoy?

I am going to say this as nicely as possible, you are the type of person that is wrong with this game.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Well in the same you A) don't know what you are talking about B) talk out your ass over and over again C) Think you know it all and no one else does.....hows that? hit it right on the head?

The difference is that I didn't make any disparaging claims about you nor have I been overtly hostile to you.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

I am going to say this as nicely as possible, you are the type of person that is wrong with this game.

and throw glorious into that discussion and osmeric and rda

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Originally Posted by Glorious Leader

The difference is that I didn't make any disparaging claims about you nor have I been overtly hostile to you.

sorry i don't pussy foot around my opinion and try to act smarter than others as you do. no reason to be politically correct. There comes a time when someone needs put in their place regardless of a sure incoming ban that is welcomed. at least i said my dues and told you how shitty your attitude and people like you are. you guys need to hear it more but you hide behind a forum moderator that protects you even though your posts are about as toxic as they come. The whole point of your posts and others like you is to troll the shit out of people to get them banned. You say worthless shit to get a rise by talking out your ass about things others enjoy. Is that better for you?

sorry i don't pussy foot around my opinion and try to act smarter than others as you do. no reason to be politically correct.

or civil it seems. If it's that threatening to you then I'll bow out of the thread for now. FOR NOW....

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Potentially it could be though. It's like the dota example I used. Log in with a couple of friends, relatively quick que times, relatively quick matches, no prolonged attachements you don't have to sit at your pc for 3 hours you can come and go within the match times. it's more bit sized. That's the hardest part about making casual content and pvp already has that.

And that's nothing new. Folks were doing this with FPS games etc long before there were mass market MMO's. That's the awesome thing about video games, there's different types. I'd much rather play 2 vastly different titles than 1 that tries and fails to deliver multiple forms of content, and pulls them off in less than stellar fashion.

Skyrim is another good example. It's (to me) a great game, but would be a terrible MMO for obvious reasons.

Beautiful veins and bloodshot eyes.
"If you are not capable of cruelty, you are absolutely a victim to anyone who is" - J. Peterson

And that's nothing new. Folks were doing this with FPS games etc long before there were mass market MMO's. That's the awesome thing about video games, there's different types. I'd much rather play 2 vastly different titles than 1 that tries and fails to deliver multiple forms of content, and pulls them off in less than stellar fashion.

Skyrim is another good example. It's (to me) a great game, but would be a terrible MMO for obvious reasons.

And that is the issue Melo, they are trying to turn a game into something it is not, to me it's like me walking into an FPS game based in the civil war demanding to shoot dragons and wizards and vampires because it's what *I* want and *I* paid for the game, to hell with what others want.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

That's where the problem lies. There is no fun to be had in LFR where all the raidbosses are just big lootpinatas that are guaranteed to die.

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Originally Posted by Seefer

And that is the issue Melo, they are trying to turn a game into something it is not, to me it's like me walking into an FPS game based in the civil war demanding to shoot dragons and wizards and vampires because it's what *I* want and *I* paid for the game, to hell with what others want.

And Blizzard has always shown that they are more than willing to ignore conventions and to offer large parts of their playerbase exactly what they want. Entire WoW is in many ways at conflict with the standards and conventions of MMO games. Blizzard wants to deliver a good game that attracts many players instead of being restricted to the "Code of Honor of MMOs".

I'm not sure if this has been stated at some point within the past 70 pages, but when I think "casual exciting", I think about things like the original Alterac Valley (back with the all the PvE quests, etc.) or even Wintergrasp (not so much Tol Barad). Yes, things are much more "accessible" with things like LFR and Timeless Isle, and while each have their moments of fun, neither provides a particularly strong impetus to log in or stay logged in for longer periods of time. So, in addition to some of the other things I've seen, here's my #1 item I want to see:

Old School AV-style, large PvP map with PvP objectives, some PvE stuff to aid in that PvP, maybe with some Timeless Isle mechanics thrown in (random rare elite spawns, some neutral monsters, others are Horde- or Alliance-specific), and I think you've got the makings of something. Of course, this necessitates each server (or group of servers) having near equal Horde and Alliance numbers, as well as a few other considerations, but so long as I have somewhere to go with stuff to do beyond the same-old stuff ("Oh, those dailies again?" or "What's the timer on Huo?"), where no matter what you do contributes to a common goal beyond your own gearing (either by helping push the front line in PvP, or, using an AV example, collecting more ram hides for saddles), I'll be happy and excited to play.

I think that's what has been missed in a lot of this thread with the "entitlement" bashing: the things you do now really only benefit yourself (unless you are lucky enough to have found a nice guild of people to raid with), and frankly, it's just not exciting. Nobody wants a loot pinata, people just want a reason to log on, even if it can only be for 20 minutes.

That's where the problem lies. There is no fun to be had in LFR where all the raidbosses are just big lootpinatas that are guaranteed to die.

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And Blizzard has always shown that they are more than willing to ignore conventions and to offer large parts of their playerbase exactly what they want. Entire WoW is in many ways at conflict with the standards and conventions of MMO games. Blizzard wants to deliver a good game that attracts many players instead of being restricted to the "Code of Honor of MMOs".

Have they really? I mean based on this thread alone they TRY to give everyone everything and fuck it right to hell and nobody is happy, it's trying to please everyone but in the process not pleasing anyone they have ZERO direction, they have to cater to the casuals, the bads who try to call themselves casuals, the pvpers, the hardcore raiders and the normal raiders.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Would you go back to playing vanilla tbc and wotlk? The never ending content had alot of negatives that went along with it as well not something that I think most people would readily accept. Ironically by their own statements they tried for a slightly more vanilla feel this expansion with regards to precisely that..

If they released a vanilla/tbc server, I would transfer. How many people like me, we will never know, but some of us liked the slower pace of the game, collaborative 5-mans/raids, immersion of going to places instead of teleporting, etc.

If they released a vanilla/tbc server, I would transfer. How many people like me, we will never know, but some of us liked the slower pace of the game, collaborative 5-mans/raids, immersion of going to places instead of teleporting, etc.

I'd go back to a WOTLK/TBC server.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Why? Trying to get them to change the game to my preferences would be highly beneficial for me, no reason for me to stop, very much reasons for me to keep on whining until they give what it is I'd enjoy most out of the game. Why does it bother you when other people get to do stuff they enjoy?

Do you really think people will respond constructively to things you post after saying something like this. There is nothing more disgusting and pathetic than someone who just whines for the sake of whining without contributing with atleast an idea, and in your case you aren't even financially supporting the company so why shouldn't threads like these be automatically closed and accounts terminated for excessive trolling.

There is no fun to be had in LFR where all the raidbosses are just big lootpinatas that are guaranteed to die.

Has flex been mentioned yet? Or the two versions above that, one of which is at least partially puggable?

Originally Posted by Anarchor

And Blizzard has always shown that they are more than willing to ignore conventions and to offer large parts of their playerbase exactly what they want. Entire WoW is in many ways at conflict with the standards and conventions of MMO games. Blizzard wants to deliver a good game that attracts many players instead of being restricted to the "Code of Honor of MMOs".

You started this thread by detailing that you weren't, in fact, getting what you want. So which is it?

They don't really ignore conventions so much as putting baby bumpers on everything. There's still leveling, grinding, questing, dungeons, and all the standard fare that were established prior. It's just all presented with far less risk and consequence, which is one of the things that makes a lot of it so milquetoast (see: leveling).

I look at it this way: great video games, in general, tend to be rather narrow in scope, but what they offer is very well executed. The compromises that tend to be made in this game have repercussions one way or the other, even when dealing with something as technical as graphics.

Who knows? Maybe with the additions they're making to the live team, the next expansion will have enough content to keep every type of player completely happy.

Beautiful veins and bloodshot eyes.
"If you are not capable of cruelty, you are absolutely a victim to anyone who is" - J. Peterson

The problem is not that you suck at the game, the problem is that you drag down our gameplay with your inane demands
All that LFR, FLEX, Normal, Heroic and split 25/10 man raids is your fault.
WoW was perfect when we only had normal difficulty with 40/20man raids, then blizzard decided to listen to you and we got 25/10. I guess that was also good, since 25man raiding wasn't really that bad and was close to 40man.
And then they decided to listen to you more. The split difficulty came, but it wasn't enough. You spamming all over the forums "how hard it is to assemble a 25 man group and how privileged are the 25m raiding guilds because they get a higher ilvl" made them split 25m and 10m and make them equal.

After that, the game has only went downhill - you received LFR, the most casual thing in existence in the universe, and you still weren't happy and continued to shit up the forums. Then you received Flex and you STILL aren't happy, meanwhile, continuing to fuck up the game for us with your demands.

What do you want next? Log in and receive top ilvl gear?

This, this is the fucking truth. The game has went from medium difficult to so easy a kindergartner could do it.

I think if anything happens it will eventually come down to not only having the challenges that are casually available to you, but also the importance or impact you're having in the game's story.

I highly doubt that Blizzard will ever give in after several years, (even in a situation where they went f2p,) that they would allow the endgame boss of their big content patches or expansion to be solo'd by someone.

I wouldn't then be surprised if the next argument in that situation would be 'well my boss kill wasn't as important a raider's boss kill.'

I highly doubt that Blizzard will ever give in after several years, (even in a situation where they went f2p,) that they would allow the endgame boss of their big content patches or expansion to be solo'd by someone.

Well in fact they have an entire franchise dedicated to that. It's called diablo.

Exactly, raiders use the gear to down raid bosses, and non-raiders would like to have some non-raid bosses to down as well. Same as raiders, non-raiders want their characters to get more and better gear and they want challenges matching that gear. Non-raid challenges. Correct.

Well in fact they have an entire franchise dedicated to that. It's called diablo.

Different game and different genre, I swear I hope that was sarcasm or telling people to play that.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Yes, I want Brawler's Guild. The problem with current Brawler's Guild is that, first, I already did it, second, it is too small, and third, it does not reward gear and so it is not an alternate progression path. I don't get stronger the more bosses I defeat. If Brawler's bosses dropped epics and there were 5 times as many of them as there are now, I would be all set for this expansion (or patch - depending on the ilvl range of dropped epics).

They probably didn't add more bosses because it wasn't very popular. No point in creating content for a tiny minority of players, right?