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Part of my "argument" here is that sure, you don't have to "starve yourself" to lose weight, or even to look like Mr. O

The point is that IT IS "OK" to do so, and it freakin' works, and it works fast, and it not bad for you, and it is how we got here.

You think our ancestry up til now had a pizza buffet line? The only point is that ITS NOT "BAD",

Sure you don't have to, but doing so will not hurt you.

The only reason that I brought up spirituality is because it is somewhat accepted thing that people take the spiritual element of their life very serious, even if it is to "not be" spiritual. I lean towards atheism in many ways, but ultimately I am somewhere between Shaman and Gnostic,

(no not Agnostic)

And the point here is that people have been doing this not only because they don't have food, but also for serious reasons (albeit not to necessarily to "lose weight") for thousands upon thousands of years.

Good to read about other people that has learned from experience, and has proved what I am saying. However Majic, I hear you. I can understand your worries. I've been in other countries, I have lived in other countries, and believe me, I can compare. And is simple as this: In this nation, it is DISGUSTING; yeah, that is right, it is DISGUSTING the amount of food that an average American eats each day. Not only that, but the food that we waste as garbage, is absolutely ridiculous. EACH DAY, we throw away hundreds and hundreds of tons of food, while the majority of humans in the planet suffer from hunger.

WE EAT TOO MUCH. Period. So much, to the point, that when somebody here "thinks" that is eating smart by not following the average nutrition patterns, you are actually eating close to how much a person eats in another country. But in reality, you are doing nothing to burn fat efficiently.

For the average American to burn fat and be fit, in shape, you MUST starve and feel hungry all day. It is just that by so many years, our bodies are deformed; our bodies have been forced through years to process way more food than needed. Stomach is overdeveloped, intestines are overdeveloped, skin is stretched all around the body, males have fat breasts hanging, stretch pants were invented, etc. It is almost a degeneration of the specie. The only way to reverse that is reconditioning your body, and for that YOU WILL feel hunger. It will be absolutely normal. Is just a bad habit. After a couple months eating like our bodies are supposed to, you won't feel hungry anymore. Your stomach and your body function will get used to it, not to mention that you will look good, healthier.

Besides, remember this nutrition plan is not forever. Once you reach your goal, you MUST increase calories, in order to start feeding and developing your muscles. Is self discipline.

And because, SO MANY PEOPLE have this "I tried everything" attitude, and I think this is just JackXXX's and my way of saying:

"Don't eat, you fat people, and if you STILL gain weight, THEN we got a problem.

I am not trying to rag on you or argue majic, and I see your point, sure its greatest to eat well and achieve fitness goals.

I think Jackxxx and I are just trying to say something that people have never heard, which works.

And you will not change my mind.

Soooo, right on Jackxxx!!!

Yeah man, Is just that people has to wake up and open their minds. Realize that what we consider "normal eating habits", is NOT normal. Is that we have raised the bar astronomically high. By eating less of what other people do, IT IS STILL TOO MUCH!!! that is the problem. So when you tell an American, "eat 3 meals a day, half can of tuna each time with half cup of veggies, a lot of water, multi vitamins and minerals" of course his reaction is "WHat!!?? Oh My God! you wanna kill me!! that's dangerous!! the doctor said this and that". But sorry...that's the reality.

Your body is ALWAYS burning calories, even if you don't exercise. You must eat less than you burn by not exercising. Now if you exercise, is a plus. You'll burn even faster.

Do you all remember the Arnold days?? In those days, people in the underground went to the gym to develop their bodies. To shape the muscles; to grow them and culture them. In other words, to gain weight. And that weight, of course was in muscle. Why? because people was not as fat as they are today. They used to eat less. Why people go to the gym today? TO LOSE WEIGHT!! the whole purpose is reversed. EVERYTHING now around the fitness industry is focus on weight loss. And what is the real cause? PEOPLE EAT TOO MUCH!! stop eating!!!!!!! do you think this health and fitness industry would be making BILLIONS in profit each year if people ate less? of course not. They do not want you to stop eating, that's why they tell you is dangerous. They just want you to buy their products and try their diets and programs forever, so they never stop making money. But I have a better advise for everybody, and for free. STOP EATING!!! eating a lot less, is healthy, is normal, you'll look better and you'll feel even better.

Not bad, but to rid yourself of fat pad you have to walk!!! Yes walk, that is how i got mine down to a third of an inch. Why, walking tends to reduce fat from the pelvis area, groin is part of the pelvis. Reverse crunhes are also good. reverse crunches build the abdominal layer that atttaches to the pubic bone, this would be the lower abs.

Now as an ex thai boxer always getting down to 7% for a fight it takes 1 simple equation. Less in more out. One thing that is super important when losing weight is to find your base metabolic rate so to speak. Basically how much food your body requires to stay exactly the same weight. I used to do this over 2 weeks keeping a food and water diary along with exercise calculated calories burned.

So for example, staying at the exact same weight for me I ate 2800kcal per day on average. This was what my body needed to maintain itself training 4 days per week. Now going for a fight, I had to up my intake to 3500 kcal and I still lost 2 lbs steady a week for 4-5 weeks. Then the last 2 or 3 weeks it was more like a 1-1.5lbs.

The key here was to find your bodies balance and work from there. Eat small regular meals to stop hunger cravings. Drink minimum 2 litres of water plus .75 litres of water per hour exercise. If my water intake went down for a day or two then my body would go into storage mode and I wouldn't loose weight that week. If the body is thirsty and needs water, it will take it from food if it's not getting in naturally. You can loose 2lbs a week with calorie deficiency without exercise no probs but your also burning muscle, so your base metabolic rate will reduce making it easier to put it all back on.

If you want to drop weight fast, do a 2-3 day detox with water and fruit. You will loose 4-5 lbs (mainly sugars). Then go into a reasonably strict diet regime after you have worked out your bodies daily survival kcal amount. Write everything down, as it is mentally harder to cheat then when you have it down in front of you.

As previously said, do your cardio before breakfast at 60% of your max heart rate to get you into the fat burning zone. Straight after this have your big meal of the day for breakfast with 1/2 litre of water. This will keep hunger at bay, only requiring small top up meals to keep your energy/metabolism going all day. Train with heavy weights to build up your lean muscle mass, also essential in rising up your natural metabolic rate.

If you are more than say 25lbs overweight you will lose the first 12 or so in a matter of a few weeks. Aim to loose 8lbs a month there after you reach a 25lbs to go goal.

50lbs is easily achievable to even beginner level fitness, in a 5 month period. The last 10 lbs to go from just seeing a 6 pack to ripped takes serious dedication and balanced plan unless you are a lucky 1 in 10 that rip easily.

Watch what you drink, too. A lot of folks think about their diets in terms of food, but there can be a ton of calories in drinks too -- sodas, sport drinks, alcoholic drinks., etc. It is important to get enough fluids, but watch out for the extra calories that can come along with them. Alcoholic drinks are especially bad since a lot of guys don't stop at one and they can add a lot of extra calories to an otherwise good diet.

There is a lot of advice here and I think most of it is good. I have the perspective of being a 57 year old man. Years ago, I could drop 5 or 10 lbs very quickly by just reducing my caloric intake a bit, and carrying on with normal activities.

Things are much different as you age. Your metabolic rate drops very significantly and you really tend to hang onto the pounds. I now find that I do need to drastically diminish my caloric intake, at least to initiate the weight loss process. To keep my weight anywhere close to what I consider ideal (which I haven't seen for a few years) I keep my caloric intake at a level where I am somewhat hungry much of the time. When I was younger, that wasn't the case.

There is no doubt that regular exercise, especially cardiovascular work, is essential not only to burn calories but to increase the lean body's basic metabolic rate. It also works as an appetite suppressant. I found that if I had the discipline to exercise instead of eating every time I felt hungry, I could lose weight very effectively. I would still eat after exercise, but typically much less.