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Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

Vogel kept Hibbert and West in too long in the 3rd, they could barely walk and get up and down the court by time they were taken out and Portland caught up at that point.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

Yes he is not reliable. Paul wasn't either 12 months ago. Neither was Granger when he was 23. Lance has to overcome the mental part. If he does that he will be spectacular. Until that happens he will be up and down and possibly off this team.

What does that have to do with anything. We are trying to win now. The fact he might be reliable in 12 months doesn't do **** if Lance has these games in the playoffs.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

Few thoughts throughout this game:

1. As mentioned by a few of you, Vogel let West in the game for too long in the 3rd. Aldridge scored like 6 straight points because West couldn't keep up.
2. Lance's jump shot is gone after his hot start. Doesn't seem as confident in it as previously.
3. Refs should have called foul on Aldridge when he kneed hibbert twice in the paint. If that's not a foul, I'd do it every time I drive.
4. With mathews and batum guarding PG so tightly towards the end, on multiple occasions PG could've pulled the "veteran move" where he swings his arms underneath theirs to get a foul call.
5. With everyone so focused on PG late in the game, I wished West or Hill could've surprised them and make some drives to the hoop for easy layups.

We have a great team. Being so used to winning, this loss stings quite a bit.

Also, how the heck do you guard the pick n rolls these west coast teams do seemingly every possession? DeAndre/Griffin sets a pick for CP3 then suddenly CP3 has a WIDE OPEN midrange jumper. Lopez/Aldridge sets a pick for mo williams/lillard and suddenly you have a WIDE OPEN midrange jumper. With KD coming up soon, do pacers stick to the same defensive schemes?

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Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

The good news still, Frank Vogel has a 7 game lead towards coaching the east all-stars lol. (Remember a coach can't do it in back to back years, and Spo did it last year)

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

What does that have to do with anything. We are trying to win now. The fact he might be reliable in 12 months doesn't do **** if Lance has these games in the playoffs.

We are trying to be the best team we can be and a team that can eventually win in May and June. If the coaches do their job and Lance does his, he will learn from this and be more consistent for the playoffs. Regardless of what happens in the playoffs, very few people will remember this game. If Lance learns from this loss, then it will be worth it.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

He didn't really make a lot of mistakes. He was just never able to get into a groove (scoring or assisting) and he racked up fouls.

I thought that "Bad Lance" was about making reckless mistakes/passes/turnovers/taking bad shots. Getting in foul trouble counts....but if he wasn't able to get his scoring going or wasn't able to get the scoring opportunities for everyone else...then that's not really "Bad Lance" making mistakes....just Lance not showing up.

As I said...I really hope that this becomes "PG24s ZERO pt Warrior" game ( from last season ) where he turns it around.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

Yes he is not reliable. Paul wasn't either 12 months ago. Neither was Granger when he was 23. Lance has to overcome the mental part. If he does that he will be spectacular. Until that happens he will be up and down and possibly off this team.

Overcome the mental part, yes. But more importantly I think Lance needs another summer or even the all star break to work on his jumpshot. Can't rely on physically over-powering opponents every night. As a player, Lance needs to develop some actual skills to become a the great player he can definitely become.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

I think people may have taken the "70 wins" thread way too seriously. People are being a little harsh after losing to probably the 3rd best team in the league by 4 in their house, coming off of a tough game @ the 6th or 7th best team in the league, and having some tough calls go against us in the end.

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Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

Before Paul George tried to win the game single handedly, he played too much one on one. There was no ball movement and too much dribbling. Both of Aldridge drives were clearly offensive fouls (he puts that knee forward just to keep Roy away)

ANDY: I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy winning or get busy losing.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

1. As mentioned by a few of you, Vogel let West in the game for too long in the 3rd. Aldridge scored like 6 straight points because West couldn't keep up.
2. Lance's jump shot is gone after his hot start. Doesn't seem as confident in it as previously.
3. Refs should have called foul on Aldridge when he kneed hibbert twice in the paint. If that's not a foul, I'd do it every time I drive.
4. With mathews and batum guarding PG so tightly towards the end, on multiple occasions PG could've pulled the "veteran move" where he swings his arms underneath theirs to get a foul call.
5. With everyone so focused on PG late in the game, I wished West or Hill could've surprised them and make some drives to the hoop for easy layups.

We have a great team. Being so used to winning, this loss stings quite a bit.

Also, how the heck do you guard the pick n rolls these west coast teams do seemingly every possession? DeAndre/Griffin sets a pick for CP3 then suddenly CP3 has a WIDE OPEN midrange jumper. Lopez/Aldridge sets a pick for mo williams/lillard and suddenly you have a WIDE OPEN midrange jumper. With KD coming up soon, do pacers stick to the same defensive schemes?

Vogel and the Pacers will stick with what works for them....keep the same defensive scheme....leave the mid-range jumpshot wide open. That's what they have to give up to defend the 3pt shot and protect the paint.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

One was a drive that got blocked by Lopez, Hibbert got the put back. The other was a wide open 3 he just didn't knock down. I was fine with Hill shooting those shots. Don't remember the other two you mention. West was tired, I don't really trust hibbert with the ball late in games, Orlando Johnson is like a pistol compared to our other 4 cannons, and PG can't do everything by himself.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

I thought that "Bad Lance" was about making reckless mistakes/passes/turnovers/taking bad shots. Getting in foul trouble counts....but if he wasn't able to get his scoring going or wasn't able to get the scoring opportunities for everyone else...then that's not really "Bad Lance" making mistakes....just Lance not showing up.

As I said...I really hope that this becomes "PG24s ZERO pt Warrior" game ( from last season ) where he turns it around.

I didn't use the "bad Lance" phrase, actually. I just said that he had a bad game. Imo, this was mostly a result of foul trouble but it was also the result of the Blazers smart defense. They knew that Lance is our energizer and they made sure that we couldn't give him the ball and get him going.

I really wish that this is a "PG zero pt Warrior" game for Lance. If that's the case then we're going to be amazing.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

The refs may have some bad calls late, but we got to give credit to Portland. They really are legit in the West and I hope they stay afloat in the top 3 in the West. Having teams like Indiana and Portland, as well as San Antonio in the top is a refreshing sight for less-hyped teams.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

I didn't use the "bad Lance" phrase, actually. I just said that he had a bad game. Imo, this was mostly a result of foul trouble but it was also the result of the Blazers smart defense. They knew that Lance is our energizer and they made sure that we couldn't give him the ball and get him going.

I really wish that this is a "PG zero pt Warrior" game for Lance. If that's the case then we're going to be amazing.

I hope so too....but I'm not sure that Lance has the emotional maturity ( yet ) to recognize what he has to do to make that next step. As someone said.....I think that he needs a little more time to get to that point.

Re: Pacers / Blazers Post Game thread - 12/2

What is going make or break this team is Lance Stephenson. Solid everywhere else. Born ready? The play tonight was more Born Yesterday. Not bothered by an off night, except when he tried to compound the misery to everyone else. The entire team plays their guts out and at a key point in the game he acts out and was lucky he didn't get the T he deserved. And get the crowd even more fired up.

Selfish. Immature.

You've got refs eyeballin' him after calls, he's eyeballin' them. Tell you what, after 3 years if he still isn't getting it, not sure he ever will.

And enabling "Magic", isn't helping things. When contract talks come around, offer him a fair price, but if wants to take his act on the road to Cleveland or Milwaukee...good luck. If that were to be the case, the over-under on the first Artest moment would be game 20 of the first year.