Select Top 15 picks. If you predict a trade, move that team from their current spot to the trade spot. One point for picking the player in the correct slot. One point for picking the player to the correct team. One point for correctly predicting a team's trade. One point for correctly predicting with whom that trade happens. And one point for the player actually being in the Top 15.

e0y2e3 wrote:Over/Under on how long until this turns into a QB discussion or Peeker/Hiko fight?

Five posts!

Not gonna happen, bro. I am just as ambivalent about this year's QB prospects as I am about the QB's already on the team. Nothing outside of "We should draft Matt Barkley at #6" registers any emotional response from me.

I like the Hiko scenario. I'd take that (as I assume they are recouping the 2nd rounder at either 42 or 54?).

You can haggle over the player but it makes sense. Personally I'd rather have Vaccarro than the CB given Young was let go, but I'd love this scenario to play out in terms of the deal itself. Gonna be tough with so many teams looking to trade back given dearth of 'elite' players but all it takes is a run on one spot for teams needing those postions to get aggressive.

This right here is Browns dream trade-down scenario where two tackles and the best CB are gone. If the draft goes like this Thursday the Browns will get their trade back and they will optimize the picks they receive. That would be difference between getting Fin's #42 as opposed to 54.

And I still think 49ers are a country you'll hear from. Would you take 31 and 34 from them for #6 in this particular draft?

Where is EJ Manual currently being projected, and do you think he is a legitimate target for the Browns?

In other words, if the Browns are targeting a specific guy in who's projected in the mid 2nd, the difference between 54 and 42 might be huge to them. What would be the point of trading back if the 2nd rounder they covet would probably be gone anyway.

And I'm not saying that's Manuel, just an example of a guy with the kind of future upside you could see a team going out of their way to land.

peeker643 wrote:And I still think 49ers are a country you'll hear from. Would you take 31 and 34 from them for #6 in this particular draft?

No, but I'd take 31, 34, 74 (3rd rounder), and 128 (4th rounder).

Let's not forget that Heckert got 2011 #27, 54, 124, and 2012 #22 to trade down from a similar position. That's 4 picks at a total value of 227. The SF trade I would take above has a 4 pick total value of 267, so it's not even as good as Heckert's deal.

Course one could also argue that the player available at #6 this year doesn't have the value of Julio Jones, so...

motherscratcher wrote:Where is EJ Manual currently being projected, and do you think he is a legitimate target for the Browns?

In other words, if the Browns are targeting a specific guy in who's projected in the mid 2nd, the difference between 54 and 42 might be huge to them. What would be the point of trading back if the 2nd rounder they covet would probably be gone anyway.

And I'm not saying that's Manuel, just an example of a guy with the kind of future upside you could see a team going out of their way to land.

My guess is that Manuel MIGHT be available at 42 but won't be there at 54.

peeker643 wrote:Which is why I hope like hell Milliner, and two tackles are off the board after first five selections.

I hear the Browns have a deep list of CB's they consider potential straters. Wonder if other teams feel the same.

It's all about the tackles and Dion Jordan to me. My gut says if Jordan is there they grab him and don't look back. Else they do a trade down if there is a run on 2 of the 3 top OLT's.

What say you Peeker?

Anything but Tyler Effert.

I think that's probably about right unless that run of OTs occurs. Yep. And I don't think Milliner grades out like Patrick Peterson or even Claiborne. And yes, the other factor is you can upgrade on the Browns shitty DBs without using that first round pick.

Trufant, Hayden, Taylor, Rhodes and Reh-wilson would all be upgrades and one or more will be there in RD3 even though most give them all 2nd round grades.

#6 isn't right spot for it but even OTs like Fluker and the kid from Syracuse are probably first round guys. Gonna be some solid, 8-10 year starters in rounds 2 and 3 IMO. Getting back the 2nd rounder would be huge. No bitches about how they used it, but I'd love to see them get one this year.

peeker643 wrote:Which is why I hope like hell Milliner, and two tackles are off the board after first five selections.

I hear the Browns have a deep list of CB's they consider potential straters. Wonder if other teams feel the same.

It's all about the tackles and Dion Jordan to me. My gut says if Jordan is there they grab him and don't look back. Else they do a trade down if there is a run on 2 of the 3 top OLT's.

What say you Peeker?

Anything but Tyler Effert.

I think that's probably about right unless that run of OTs occurs. Yep. And I don't think Milliner grades out like Patrick Peterson or even Claiborne. And yes, the other factor is you can upgrade on the Browns shitty DBs without using that first round pick.

Trufant, Hayden, Taylor, Rhodes and Reh-wilson would all be upgrades and one or more will be there in RD3 even though most give them all 2nd round grades.

#6 isn't right spot for it but even OTs like Fluker and the kid from Syracuse are probably first round guys. Gonna be some solid, 8-10 year starters in rounds 2 and 3 IMO. Getting back the 2nd rounder would be huge. No bitches about how they used it, but I'd love to see them get one this year.

Lots of interwebs speculation about sung Ty Rubin to get a second in a trade package. makes some sense if they stay at 6 and take either Star or Sheriff, two guys with good value slots there.

jb wrote:Lots of interwebs speculation about sung Ty Rubin to get a second in a trade package. makes some sense if they stay at 6 and take either Star or Sheriff, two guys with good value slots there.

So you trade Rubin, a pretty good NFL player, for a 2nd round pick, then turn around and use the 1st round pick to replace him with a guy you HOPE is a pretty good NFL player.

So unless Star or Shariff turns out to be a star, you've succeeded in trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick.

Sounds about right.

Well, Ty's contract blows up like Jamarcus Russell at a CiCi's pizza after this year. he's gonna face a restructure or release.

Both Star and Sheriff are premium DT prospects, albeit different type players. They represent upgrades over Big Ty. If we were to get a 2nd for Ty that'd be a plus. Perhaps even a Cost Plussing move. So think of it as if you were to replace Rubin with Ngata and get a 2nd. The D becomes that much more attacky-changie (color me intrigued by Shear at OLB bull) and you have a 2nd to shore up a CB spot.

I don't see it in the same lateral vein you do. I'd be pretty happy with that draft as we see the O simmer for s season with the young starters having another year and hopefully better scheme/technique coaching. A monkey-butt-load more happy than taking Geno or Ty freaking Effert.

I do have a gut feel they are in man-love with Dion Jordan and if he's there they just pull trigger.

jb wrote:Lots of interwebs speculation about sung Ty Rubin to get a second in a trade package. makes some sense if they stay at 6 and take either Star or Sheriff, two guys with good value slots there.

So you trade Rubin, a pretty good NFL player, for a 2nd round pick, then turn around and use the 1st round pick to replace him with a guy you HOPE is a pretty good NFL player.

So unless Star or Shariff turns out to be a star, you've succeeded in trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick.

Sounds about right.

Well, Ty's contract blows up like Jamarcus Russell at a CiCi's pizza after this year. he's gonna face a restructure or release.

Both Star and Sheriff are premium DT prospects, albeit different type players. They represent upgrades over Big Ty. If we were to get a 2nd for Ty that'd be a plus. Perhaps even a Cost Plussing move. So think of it as if you were to replace Rubin with Ngata and get a 2nd. The D becomes that much more attacky-changie (color me intrigued by Shear at OLB bull) and you have a 2nd to shore up a CB spot.

Uh, I ain't assuming either of those guys is a Ngata, thanks.

Just as likely to be a Big Money.

Most likely is "good but not great".

You do that, then pick up a CB in the 2nd, you still have mediocrity at Pass Rush LB, meh at Guard, and probably start a 3rd round Safety. Oh, and no TE.

I actually like the Rubin/Winn/Bryant package at DE better than I like the Sheard/Kruger/Groves package at OLB, and I think that OLB spot is probably more of a premium in this 3-4.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way the Browns come out of this draft with me excited about the overall roster, just levels of "guess we'll see", so I'd not blow a gasket over this scenario either.

jb wrote:Lots of interwebs speculation about sung Ty Rubin to get a second in a trade package. makes some sense if they stay at 6 and take either Star or Sheriff, two guys with good value slots there.

So you trade Rubin, a pretty good NFL player, for a 2nd round pick, then turn around and use the 1st round pick to replace him with a guy you HOPE is a pretty good NFL player.

So unless Star or Shariff turns out to be a star, you've succeeded in trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick.

Sounds about right.

Well, Ty's contract blows up like Jamarcus Russell at a CiCi's pizza after this year. he's gonna face a restructure or release.

Both Star and Sheriff are premium DT prospects, albeit different type players. They represent upgrades over Big Ty. If we were to get a 2nd for Ty that'd be a plus. Perhaps even a Cost Plussing move. So think of it as if you were to replace Rubin with Ngata and get a 2nd. The D becomes that much more attacky-changie (color me intrigued by Shear at OLB bull) and you have a 2nd to shore up a CB spot.

Uh, I ain't assuming either of those guys is a Ngata, thanks.

Just as likely to be a Big Money.

Most likely is "good but not great".

You do that, then pick up a CB in the 2nd, you still have mediocrity at Pass Rush LB, meh at Guard, and probably start a 3rd round Safety. Oh, and no TE.

I actually like the Rubin/Winn/Bryant package at DE better than I like the Sheard/Kruger/Groves package at OLB, and I think that OLB spot is probably more of a premium in this 3-4.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way the Browns come out of this draft with me excited about the overall roster, just levels of "guess we'll see", so I'd not blow a gasket over this scenario either.

Well, Courtney Brown showed us we can ass-u-me nothing, so yeah, I obviously get that.

But these two are likely to go higher than Ngata who came out with some flaws and criticism. But that's where Star's upside it. He ought to be better, esp vs the pass, than Rubin. So we'd have PT at NT, Mugshot and Star at DE's. A pretty impressive from 3 vs the pass. Shariff is more one gap that Star and that could be even more impressive.

The D is not gonna be a stay-at-home type. Rubin is solid to good, but I dunno how much he fits. And the issue of the contract made him banner un-friendly in both regards. A move would make sense.

And there's nothing the Browns could do now that would excite me short of a class action taquiter's give away to the general public.

jb wrote:Well, Courtney Brown showed us we can ass-u-me nothing, so yeah, I obviously get that.

But these two are likely to go higher than Ngata who came out with some flaws and criticism. But that's where Star's upside it. He ought to be better, esp vs the pass, than Rubin. So we'd have PT at NT, Mugshot and Star at DE's. A pretty impressive from 3 vs the pass. Shariff is more one gap that Star and that could be even more impressive.

The D is not gonna be a stay-at-home type. Rubin is solid to good, but I dunno how much he fits. And the issue of the contract made him banner un-friendly in both regards. A move would make sense.

And there's nothing the Browns could do now that would excite me short of a class action taquiter's give away to the general public.

I getcha and agree to an extent.

I just think that Pass Rusher makes a bigger impact on your team and who knows when you'll be drafting in the Top 6 again.

And if they do draft in the Top 6 again next year (which isn't unlikely), QB will probably be their focus.

EDIT - Let's just say that if they go Defense early I will be more satisfied. The only O prospect that entices me is Tavon Austin. That dude MADE Geno Smith.

Last edited by Hikohadon on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jb wrote:Well, Courtney Brown showed us we can ass-u-me nothing, so yeah, I obviously get that.

But these two are likely to go higher than Ngata who came out with some flaws and criticism. But that's where Star's upside it. He ought to be better, esp vs the pass, than Rubin. So we'd have PT at NT, Mugshot and Star at DE's. A pretty impressive from 3 vs the pass. Shariff is more one gap that Star and that could be even more impressive.

The D is not gonna be a stay-at-home type. Rubin is solid to good, but I dunno how much he fits. And the issue of the contract made him banner un-friendly in both regards. A move would make sense.

And there's nothing the Browns could do now that would excite me short of a class action taquiter's give away to the general public.

I getcha and agree to an extent.

I just think that Pass Rusher makes a bigger impact on your team and who knows when you'll be drafting in the Top 6 again.

And if they do draft in the Top 6 again next year (which isn't unlikely), QB will probably be their focus.

EDIT - Let's just say that if they go Defense early I will be more satisfied.

Wichu Hiko.

The issue is that you have need, and you have actual cats.

There's a few different ways to rush the passer. One is from the interior down DLmen. the other is the two legged sorts.

As far as actual players, gimme a Star or Shariff over an unproductive stiff like Kivi or Roberto Hernandez Anseh. I really don't know whatthey offer that Sheard doesn't. Hell, I still don't know why Jarvis Jones is written off over workouts. All he did was rush like a madman and dominate the SEC.

But I'm funny like that. Sure will be nice to see him replace harrison and "Cost Plus" us for 5 years as a pro bowler.

jb wrote:As far as actual players, gimme a Star or Shariff over an unproductive stiff like Kivi or Roberto Hernandez Anseh. I really don't know whatthey offer that Sheard doesn't. Hell, I still don't know why Jarvis Jones is written off over workouts. All he did was rush like a madman and dominate the SEC.

But I'm funny like that. Sure will be nice to see him replace harrison and "Cost Plus" us for 5 years as a pro bowler.

Wichu JB. Still a big fan of JJ. Maybe his stock drop allows them to trade down and take him at 12/13. Beauty.

motherscratcher wrote:Where is EJ Manual currently being projected, and do you think he is a legitimate target for the Browns?

In other words, if the Browns are targeting a specific guy in who's projected in the mid 2nd, the difference between 54 and 42 might be huge to them. What would be the point of trading back if the 2nd rounder they covet would probably be gone anyway.

And I'm not saying that's Manuel, just an example of a guy with the kind of future upside you could see a team going out of their way to land.

My guess is that Manuel MIGHT be available at 42 but won't be there at 54.

motherscratcher wrote:Where is EJ Manual currently being projected, and do you think he is a legitimate target for the Browns?

In other words, if the Browns are targeting a specific guy in who's projected in the mid 2nd, the difference between 54 and 42 might be huge to them. What would be the point of trading back if the 2nd rounder they covet would probably be gone anyway.

And I'm not saying that's Manuel, just an example of a guy with the kind of future upside you could see a team going out of their way to land.

My guess is that Manuel MIGHT be available at 42 but won't be there at 54.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see him go at the end of the 1st.

Don't think there's ANY way he comes close to 42.

Waaaay before that ILO.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Just not sure if he's the #2 or #3 QB to go.

jb wrote: Hell, I still don't know why Jarvis Jones is written off over workouts. All he did was rush like a madman and dominate the SEC.

But I'm funny like that. Sure will be nice to see him replace harrison and "Cost Plus" us for 5 years as a pro bowler.

1000% on board with you here JB. While I've been talked in to Jordan as my #1 choice, Jarvis is holding steady at #2.

Dion Jordan, DE/OLB, Oregon

Jordan, who keeps showing up as a top-five pick in every mock draft I see, finished third in tackles for loss in 2012. Third in the nation? No. There wasn't a No. 3 because South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney (the likely No. 1 pick in the 2014 draft) and Arizona State defensive tackle Will Sutton tied for second with 23.5. Third in the Pac-12? Nope. That was UCLA linebacker Anthony Barr. Jordan finished No. 3 in tackles for loss on his own team with 10.5 (five sacks). And he might go second or third overall?

I get that Jordan's size (6-foot-6, 248 pounds) means he can play defensive end in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4, but the idea that a 3-4 team needing a disruptive rusher would take Jordan over Georgia outside linebacker Jarvis Jones -- No. 1 in the nation with 24.5 tackles for loss even though he missed one game with an injury -- is absolutely dumbfounding. At least Jones will go elsewhere in the first round. Stanford's Thomas (6-4, 248) will go three to four rounds after Jordan, and all Thomas did -- playing against the same offensive lines as Jordan -- was get in the backfield more often (14.5 TFL, 7.5 sacks).

jb wrote: Hell, I still don't know why Jarvis Jones is written off over workouts. All he did was rush like a madman and dominate the SEC.

But I'm funny like that. Sure will be nice to see him replace harrison and "Cost Plus" us for 5 years as a pro bowler.

1000% on board with you here JB. While I've been talked in to Jordan as my #1 choice, Jarvis is holding steady at #2.

Dion Jordan, DE/OLB, Oregon

Jordan, who keeps showing up as a top-five pick in every mock draft I see, finished third in tackles for loss in 2012. Third in the nation? No. There wasn't a No. 3 because South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney (the likely No. 1 pick in the 2014 draft) and Arizona State defensive tackle Will Sutton tied for second with 23.5. Third in the Pac-12? Nope. That was UCLA linebacker Anthony Barr. Jordan finished No. 3 in tackles for loss on his own team with 10.5 (five sacks). And he might go second or third overall?

I get that Jordan's size (6-foot-6, 248 pounds) means he can play defensive end in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4, but the idea that a 3-4 team needing a disruptive rusher would take Jordan over Georgia outside linebacker Jarvis Jones -- No. 1 in the nation with 24.5 tackles for loss even though he missed one game with an injury -- is absolutely dumbfounding. At least Jones will go elsewhere in the first round. Stanford's Thomas (6-4, 248) will go three to four rounds after Jordan, and all Thomas did -- playing against the same offensive lines as Jordan -- was get in the backfield more often (14.5 TFL, 7.5 sacks).