Hi all - thanks for taking time to read my thread. I've been wanting to get another card based game for a while now that can accommodate all 5 members of my family which can be over in under an hour.

My children are all girls from 8 to 13 to 15. We love playing 7 Wonders; the 8 yr old can easily play without help from us, understanding the symbology of the cards and how to play (and win!) - they also like playing Last Night on Earth and the 8 yr old loves playing as the heroes and can draw and read the cards well. So that's a little about us.

I've seen this game on my local stores shelf and on ebay/amazon etc and have wanted to get it, but the 4 player max put me off. Until I found out the expansion allows 5 players hurray!

I've watched a number of review videos and How to play and it looks ok - my question is do players think that we as a family can naturally progress from a card game like 7 Wonders to a game like this?

The only issue I've come up with that may be a problem is the fact that, while I've played the game about 20 times, I'm still having to reference the directions or player aids to figure out what the symbols mean. I obviously do it less and less, but it can get annoying after a while.

That having been said, I do enjoy the game and as a general rule recommend it to others.

My question is do players think that we as a family can naturally progress from a card game like 7 Wonders to a game like this?

Frank,I would say go for it! A lot was said about the 'arcane' icons in RftG when it first came out but if you guys get along OK with them in 7W then I'd say they aren't a whole lot different in terms of 'complexity'. Certainly, once you've 'cracked that nut', the game falls into place nicely and the strategy has so many 'layers' I'm sure they'll be something for everyone in your family.

With 7 Wonders, you do some group "set selection" as you pass cards around. With RFtG, there is more strategic depth and more complicated iconology, with much more subtle interaction in the role selection.

Could your kids learn to play it? Sure....but it is a much less family friendly game. I could see kids getting bored with it.

My question is do players think that we as a family can naturally progress from a card game like 7 Wonders to a game like this?

It is a very different type of game; RftG is way much harder to explain and understand than 7W and a complete different gaming experience. Also based on the ages if they are not used to gaming or science fiction it could not be up their alley.

I would rather suggest you go for Glory to Rome than Race for the Galaxy or invest in getting 7 Wonders: Leaders.

Also it could be an opportunity to move to other type of games; for a 5 player family gaming fun game I love playing any of Ticket to Ride series.

Just a friendly reminder that the base game is for 4 players, only with an expansion does it allow 5 players.

Yes, sort of. For a first few games you can just take the extra set of action cards from the expansion (or even improvise their replacement) - the deck will get reshuffled much more with 5 players and no added cards but this is no real problem and may even be an advantage.

But Lord_Nibbler has a good point - a different sort of game like TtR or possibly even The First Sparks* may be a better choice.

My question is do players think that we as a family can naturally progress from a card game like 7 Wonders to a game like this?

It is a very different type of game; RftG is way much harder to explain and understand than 7W and a complete different gaming experience. Also based on the ages if they are not used to gaming or science fiction it could not be up their alley.

I would rather suggest you go for Glory to Rome than Race for the Galaxy or invest in getting 7 Wonders: Leaders.

Also it could be an opportunity to move to other type of games; for a 5 player family gaming fun game I love playing any of Ticket to Ride series.

As for Ticket to Ride - lol my wife is a MASSIVE train game fan and we have every copy of TtR plus expansions and map packs. Also recently got Railways of the World for a meaty game. We also own Stone Age, Agricola, Galactica, Bang, Citadels, Apples to Apples plus more, so a fair number of card orientated/involved games.

I feel like we need another space game - my kids are pretty much ok with anything - from 17th Century farming (Agricola), to Ancient World (7W) to fighting Zombies (LNOE).

I would rather suggest you go for Glory to Rome than Race for the Galaxy or invest in getting 7 Wonders: Leaders.

GtR? Some adults can take things too personally, let alone kids 8, 13, and 15. There are some "nasty" negative interaction cards that can rub some people the wrong way. However, in truth, it took me only my first game to have a basic understanding of what was going on in GtR. I'm only well versed in RftG only b/c I've played Keldon's AI about 10K, or close to 10K if not there yet. GtR is also a very unconventional game with its odd cardflow mechanics.

All in all, I'd say RftG is fine, but just don't expect strategy to come anytime soon. Ditto with GtR really if they don't mind the attacking cards.

Race for the Galaxy should be fine for your group. My only word of caution, however, is that they might not like playing with all five players. In 4 and 5 player games, everything is very tight, and I tend to find that you feel like you have a lot less control over what you're doing. It's a lot harder to get an engine going before someone else ends the game (which is of course part of the strategy, finding ways to end the game with yourself ahead!). It's not bad by any means at 4 or 5 players, but I much prefer the 2 and 3 player game.

Also, keep in mind the first expansion is designed to make things go even faster!

I think you will be fine. With just the first expansion it doesn't get any more complicated, just a few more home planets and such. There is a chance that the kids don't get into it as easily as 7 wonders, however it plays GREAT as a 2 player game so you will always have that assuming your wife enjoys the game.

I wish I could play this more, I got the Keldon AI and got too good at the game in comparison to my wife, who didn't play as much as me. It was one of our first games so I hadn't learned to not go whole hog reading strats so we stay on even playing field! Result of that was that it lost some play time to other games. I'm sure we will bring it out again many more times in the future though!

As for Ticket to Ride - lol my wife is a MASSIVE train game fan and we have every copy of TtR plus expansions and map packs. Also recently got Railways of the World for a meaty game. Also Stone Age, Agricola, Galactica, Bang, Citadels, Apples to Apples plus more, so a fair number of card orientated games.

I feel like we need another space game - my kids are pretty much ok with anything - from 17th Century farming (Agricola), to Ancient World (7W) to fighting Zombies (LNOE).

I would suggest Power Grid (proper) - it fully fits your wife's liking for train games However it probably is really too much for an 8yo unless you have truly spawned a monster! But Power Grid: The First Sparks should be well within range for players of those other games.and if you want a space game also have a look at Core Worlds - though a 5-player game of that possibly goes on too long. Race has the nice property shared with 7 wonders that playtime doesn't vary much with number of players.

Honestly, I'd say it's not a good fit if you are only interested in playing it with the whole family. Race is a very love-it-or-hate-it kind of game, so there's a good chance that at least one of you will hate it and it will not get played much.

while I've played the game about 20 times, I'm still having to reference the directions or player aids to figure out what the symbols mean

I certainly don't mean to make Makis feel bad, but I would guess this is an extremely atypical experience... I have taught the game to people who had two learning games, and then were done with the aid. The experience of most posters in the RftG forums also indicates that it takes a couple games, and then the icons make sense. 20 seems like about 4-5x more than average, unless you're just playing the game once every eight months or something. Makis, what is it that you keep going back to?

I would strongly urge you to read this user's series of reviews: This Citadels review is one example.

They should be about as applicable to you as reviews get, although I do disagree with some of that person's conclusions. (They think Citadels is good with five; I really wouldn't want to play it with five, usually.)

As for Race for the Galaxy, it's not a bad choice, but it's rather expensive if you buy the base game + expansion right off the bat, and the daughters are not guaranteed to like it. It plays much better with five than most other comparable games I can think of (Dominion, Citadels, Glory to Rome), since simultaneous action is a wonderful thing. So, if you were pretty sure they'd like it, Race would be a good buy. I would put that as a maybe, but it's a very high upside gamble.

If you do buy it, get the first expansion, not the second one. People are tempted to buy the second expansion first because it has more cards, but that is ill-advised due to balance issues and various other factors.

Other possible card-based options include No Thanks (very short filler, but a very good game) or Mu (fun but more than an hour unless you lower the target score). Ascension with the expansion is also an option, but I haven't tried it and you lose the cost advantage that other unexpanded games would have over Race.

Hi guys - well I plunged for RftG plus the first expansion and downloaded and read through RftG Intro for kids and played a short intro with my 8yr old plus a dummy 3rd player. As Id not played the game officially before, there was a little more rule reading than normal but she did pick it up fairly quickly, using the Intro to RftG system (initially using only Explore +1+1, Develop and Settle). If you allow little down time and get the new player to answer questions ("So its not Develop, which diamond card do you want to use? Ok, and what number is in the diamond, so how many cards do you have to get rid of..." etc), then interest can be maintained. She did like the game and liked how it went.

Also I am in a gaming group so if the game doesnt go down that well itll still be played.

One question I do have - how does the phases work? I could figure ifA) everyone chooses an action card and then everyone plays the phases one after the other but if you chose that action card you get a bonusOrB) everyone choses an action card and only those phases are play but everyone who played that action card gets the bonus?

Not quite sure but im almost positive its the former but thought ill check.

B. From the rules page 1, overview, second paragraph: "Only the selected phases occur. For these phases, every player performs the phases's action, while the selecting player(s) also get a bonus for that phase."

You certainly can learn this game. One big benefit is that it works well with any number of players from 2 to 5. As you have already observed, you will need the Race for the Galaxy: The Gathering Storm expansion if you want to play with 5 (or, to be more precise, you will at times find it awkward to play with 5 using just the base game,) but that expansion does not add too much complication to the base game.

If several of you love the game, you can consider getting more expansions later. It's good for a few hundred plays before you need to think about more than the first expansion.

Is it the general feeling that you should get the first in the series (RftG) and the first expansion only?

Are the later expansions all naff... I have found in other games that continual expansions and additional rules, cards, etc, can not only make the game more complicated, but unbalanced, and you lose the essence of the original.