Department Of Homeland Security is NOT Stockpiling Ammo

I would like to preface this post by saying that I realize this is a conspiracy website. I also believe that some of the threads posted on this site
are very interesting and entertaining.

The problem I have, is that posters here just blindly believe what people post, without actually doing any type of research to see if the information
is indeed factual, or just plain false. What's even worse is when another poster links facts that show the information is completely false and other
posters just ignore it. That is why I have started this thread, maybe we can put this whole BS about DHS stockpiling ammo once and for all.
Remember, the motto here on ATS is "Deny Ignorance".

We all have seen the posts all over ATS about DHS stockpiling 1.6 billion bullets. The latest thread here on ATS claims the DHS is about to take over
the nations populace. The poster likes to use "inside sources" and links to bogus information from sites like info wars. I believe I can debunk this
junk reporting and hopefully can help some here truly "Deny Ignorance". I am going to post links to the articles most frequently used and then post
links that show the information in those articles are completely false or misleading. Lets get started.

The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already
obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.

Pretty scary stuff if you ask me. Sure seems like they are stockpiling bullets to me. 21.6 million rounds? That seems like an awful lot, and the
1.6 billion bullets they have purchased and are stockpiling seems like they expecting something big to happen soon.

I guess I would be a bit worried, but upon digging I found out that the number is completely bogus. 21.6 million rounds? I found the final number
purchased was much much less. Here is the link that info wars uses to back up their claims that DHS is set to purchase 21.6 million bullets.
HERE is the link
to the auction site FEDBID. When you look at the order and add up the rounds in the solicitation, they do indeed add up to 21.6 million bullets.

The problem is, that is the original solicitation and not the final order or purchase. If one would actually dig deeper that would find out the final
purchase was actually only 140,000 rounds, not 21.6 million. In fact, the order was changed on Feb 8th, with the final contract being awarded on Feb
21st, 2013. Here are some links that show the changed orders and final contract awarded.

The final contract was awarded to Grace Ammo, LLC. The final price was $38,559.60.

So now we can see that the final purchase was for far less than the 21.6 million info wars claimed in its article, which got me thinking if Info Wars
21.6 million bullet purchase is that far off, how far off is their claim of 1.6 billion bullets?

I will add more as I go, as I am sure I will get plenty of people disagreeing with me.

Adding more to the original post.

The 1.6 billion number includes an order for 450 million rounds of HP from contractor ATK. However, that order for 450 million HP's was over a five
year period and that number also is the maximum, will not exceed, not the total ordered.

ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years,
and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

So now we have a 1/3 of the number of bullets allegedly bought in question.

There was also an order in March for 175 million bullets. It looks like that order was never filled, but I did find it interesting that order was
over a 4 year period and in one of the amendment it clarified the conditions of that order:

The language on page 1 of 8 under “Minimum and Maximum Thresholds” has been clarified as follows: “….The The language on page 1 of 8 under
“Minimum and Maximum Thresholds” has been clarified as follows: “….The guaranteed minimum of any contract awarded is 10,000 rounds for each
type of ammunition and is applicable to the base year only. The maximum threshold throughout the 5-year duration of the contract will be
165,000,000 rounds for SD and 10,000,000 rounds for EP.
Additionally, the language under Attachment 1 (Ordering Guide), page 2 of 18 has been clarified as follows: “In the event that the Government
makes multiple awards, the Contracting Officer provide a fair opportunity to be considered issuing individual delivery orders exceeding $3,000 in
accordance with FAR 16.505(b) . The maximum threshold throughout the 5-year duration of the contract will be 165,000,000 rounds for SD and 10,000,000 rounds for EP.
Additionally, the language under Attachment 1 (Ordering Guide), page 2 of 18 has been clarified as follows: “In the event that the Government
makes multiple awards, the Contracting Officer provide a fair opportunity to be considered issuing individual delivery orders exceeding $3,000 in
accordance with FAR 16.505(b)

Notice in the above quote the MINIMUM guaranteed amount is only 10,000 rounds of each type and is only guaranteed for the first year of the contract.
This means after the first year they do not have to buy any more ammo.

Getting a lot of statement on how it must be true if congress is asking why they need also those bullets and are getting the run around. Although I
do not have proof, I believe it is a budgeting trick used by the DHS so their funding does not get cut. The orders are placed with the maximum amount
so their budget doesn't get cut. They order the bullets and claim the money is needed to fulfill those orders, although the orders are not actually
ever filled. That is more than likely the reason congress is getting the run around here.

Also as far a stockpiling, you can head to the auction site
www.govliquidation.com... and see that our governmental agencies sure seem
to be using these bullets, not hording them. They are auctioning roughly 50+ million empty casing monthly.

I haven't looked deeply into this until now, but of course have seen the blurbs about it here and everywhere else.

Great job, I totally agree with you about people just agreeing because it fits their idea of what the world is. The same happens when people make wild
claims about being abducted by trans-dimensional-shapshifting-reptilian-aliens. And if you DO imply that the claim may not be true at all, 100 people
jump down your throat with accusations that you have a "closed mind" or your eyes are "not open."

Anyway, again, great job getting to the facts of the matter. Sadly I doubt it will make any difference.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
I haven't looked deeply into this until now, but of course have seen the blurbs about it here and everywhere else.

Great job, I totally agree with you about people just agreeing because it fits their idea of what the world is. The same happens when people make wild
claims about being abducted by trans-dimensional-shapshifting-reptilian-aliens. And if you DO imply that the claim may not be true at all, 100 people
jump down your throat with accusations that you have a "closed mind" or your eyes are "not open."

Anyway, again, great job getting to the facts of the matter. Sadly I doubt it will make any difference.

he links one countract in Feb and you call it good research? There were hundreds if not thousands of contracts for ammo.

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?

do you guys think the government doesn’t lie to you? that there looking out for your best interests?

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?

Uh, maybe it got there the same way that certain U.S. senators felt compelled to accuse Chuck Hagel of making speeches for "Friends of Hamas," (a
rumor they heard on the internets) just to find out later that no such organization exists.

When you have Tea Party nut jobs like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz in the Senate, there are no limits to the crazy stuff that's liable to be brought up in
a senate hearing.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
The 1.6 billion rounds is not a bulk purchase. its Its accumulated throughout the last year to year and a half. your link acounts for one bid that
closed on feb.

edit on 25-3-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

There are many other links that I did not post. Yes it is one bid and that final order was for less than 10% of the original bid. All their bids
(solicitations) start this way, almost all large orders are modified and the final contract is much lower.

As for the stockpiling comment. Here is a link to the Government Liquidation website. One of the items they auction are bullet casings.
Gov
Liquidators actions spent bullets. Spent casing are added to this site all the time to be auctioned off. On the first page alone there is
roughly 40,000 lbs of spent brass casings. Just to make the math simple, if they were 9mm bullets at roughly 8 grams a bullet it would be about 2
million bullets. That is just on the first page. It seems quite clear to me from this link that the bullets are being used, not horded.

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?

Uh, maybe it got there the same way that certain U.S. senators felt compelled to accuse Chuck Hagel of making speeches for "Friends of Hamas," (a
rumor they heard on the internets) just to find out later that no such organization exists.

When you have Tea Party nut jobs like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz in the Senate, there are no limits to the crazy stuff that's liable to be brought up in
a senate hearing.

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?

Uh, maybe it got there the same way that certain U.S. senators felt compelled to accuse Chuck Hagel of making speeches for "Friends of Hamas," (a
rumor they heard on the internets) just to find out later that no such organization exists.

When you have Tea Party nut jobs like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz in the Senate, there are no limits to the crazy stuff that's liable to be brought up in
a senate hearing.

I think he meant nutjobs like nancy pelosi, you guys remeber her, " we have to pass it before we can see whats in it"

While I agree with you on your point that there are (and always have been) ways to "get around" regulatory offices like the GAO, and also the nation
wide ammunition shortage (which really is happening) I never truly beleived that an agency like DHS could really get away with that large of a
purchase without alarm bells ringing in every level of government.
On another note, I happened to be present when the semi carrying my local Wal-Mart's ammunition order came in and was stocked. It was madness. They
were pretty much sold out in minutes.
Now how about applying our collective logic to delve into the alleged MRAP purchase?

Well here's another 360,000 more
rounds to add to your debunking. Seems like it's just going on and on and on doesn't it. Go ahead, bury your head in the sand, they'll just
shoot you in the ass instead.

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