Not in My Name

Takfiris firmly believe that the end justifies the means. But Islam never approves of such actions as it never issues such fatwa and their beliefs are rejected by almost all prominent contemporary Islamic scholars. As an Islamic term jihad means "the struggle for God's sake." It is through jihad that every Muslim is required to defend his or her country against any foreign invader. In recent years the term has been widely misused in the media to describe bombings, suicide attacks, or any other sort of aggressive behavior by extremists.

But what exactly is jihad and when does it become obligatory for Muslims? Islam prescribes war only in certain circumstances and only religious scholars know what the circumstances are. Religious leaders must issue a fatwa when the circumstances demand jihad. But jihad doesn't mean that anyone can pick up a weapon at will and take control of a place and kill people, or make suicide bomb attack thinking it's jihad. Jihad is prescribed under certain conditions and the fatwa must be endorsed by the majority of religious scholars, not by those with personal interests and biased attitudes.

There is no religious permission or convincing reason for suicide bomb attacks that take the lives of people, whether Muslims or infidels. These acts have root in Takfiri ideology. Takfiris are a group of extremists whose names and crimes are always in the news headlines and they're infamous for their extremely violent behavior. But what is Takfiri and what do Takfiris do?

Most of the time they brand other Muslims as unbelievers or kafirs on the slightest thing which makes Takfiri style the worst one in the world of Islam. Takfirism is an offshoot of Salafism whose followers seek to get to the origins of Islam, but based on their own facile and fallacious reading. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and that's what Takfiris are suffering from. Warning: Very graphic content.

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185 Comments / User Reviews

dmxi

nice to see the attempt of entangling a 'topic' that has been mis-represented,propagated & tooled to the extent of a weapon in current (our so called!) free media... fabricating an enemy by twisting religion into a racial entity!shame on us whom accept this charade!

hollis517

i'd love to see the South Park take on this "documentary"!

rodrigo

what is the meaning of your argument? Who is fabricating what? And what does free media have to do with it all?

unyk

Press TV is of Iranian origin & they are known to make such documentaries that praises islam.

rngfarrell

Seriously?

Dan Haggerty

You must be kidding - Mohammed killed thousands and said "it's me or the sword' to those he captured. Islam spreads by violent conquest. It has always been thus, no matter what the Western Traitor Elite want us to believe.

ediemeowgwick

Christianity spread through even more violence than Islam. Over 500 million dead Indigenous Americans, tens of thousands more in the Pacific islands, hundreds of thousands killed in Africa/slavery.

All by Christians.

Islam, on the other hand, after the death of Muhhamad spread mostly through the commercial hegemony of the Arab people, it allowed people to keep their indigenous religions unlike christianity, and the people under Islamic rulers had a better chance of rising in status that European serfs did.

Then came colonialism of the middle east. Europeans wiped out tens of thousands of indigenous middle eastern people, and since then are responsible for over 2 million dead Arabs.

jim jones

@In a nut shell.Our syndicate has caret blanche because god is on our side of controlling with our superior force of violence.

dewflirt

God could sort this out.... If he existed.

xxDarkSidexx

Who cares what people did 100's of years ago, thats HISTORY and you can't change it, This is now, Islam is and continues to be a nasty, barbaric form of religion that is dated and violent, stop comparing what happen all those years ago and look at the present, its like your saying "thats ok if they did it then, we can do it now" don#t be a bunch of d*cks.

Marcin

Islam is not violent,... Fundamentalists are... shame they didnt teach u this in your school,

Xmen442002

Islam is a truth that the powers of this world do not want discovered.
These extremists are uneducated and led by factions of clerics who pose as scholars issuing fatwa on fabricated haddith of Muhammad.
If they followed the Quran and the Sunnah then none of this would be possible.
As a Muslim, you are required tro study the Quran intently.
The verses revealed are in some stances only for the time of Muhammad and his particular people during the early onset of Islam.
Much of the Quran is a historical document and some of what was revealed does not apply to Muslims of today.
A good Muslim is one who understands their religion and does not let others tell them how to interpret it.

~Oliver B Koslik Esq

WOW!
Blockbuster Doc!

People who try to manipulate others into the ideals, beliefs or actions that they themselves hold, are everywhere geographically. Infact I can think of a cupple really dangerous ones in my own life, just off the top of my head.

The most important thing that one can do is learn to identify the way such manipulators, act, speak and think. But as well lure their intellectual prey with education and pertinent real life information. So as to be able to tranfer opinion or direction onto their target (grooming).

Even if your are living/working with a pathological manipulator, you do not have to sucumb to their attacks, nor the guilt, shame, or rejection they will bestow if you are to deviate from "their direction".

Simply knowing that someone is a manipulator, is 90% of the time good enough to be able to combat their subjection.

Great Doc TDF!
+1

~Oliver B Koslik Esq

Thats ok... Everyone should have their own channel.
This is how I see a "singular cloud" of information will eventually form!

Good comment though
I didn't know PressTV was Iranian!
+1

~Oliver B Koslik Esq

Don't take my word for it but, I believe dmxi meant that he was relieved to see a doc actually outlining true Jihadism, and the undercurrents of it?

Religion can be a beautiful and enlightening process for a human to partake in.

But the psychopaths that like to hate shit (haters), can/do exploit the violence potential of certain teachings, that were written way back when.

Current religions are not prepared nor equipped to deal with the mental illnesses /social problems now definable in the 21st century.

Dan Haggerty

Not true. Most of the deaths of Indigenous Americans were caused by disease brought by the Europeans. Most of the conquest of these areas was undertaken for military and commercial reasons, not laudable but also not done for religious reasons.

People rising under Islam? You are clearly unaware of Dhimmitude, the Muslim principle of treating non- believers as secondary citizens, with fewer rights than Muslims. Women are also second class citizens in every Islamic country; That's hardly "rising up".

Colonialism is reprehensible, as is slavery. Slavery is still practiced where it was developed - in the Islamic middle east, especially Saudi Arabia.

Christianity does not support slavery as Islam does. When the Pope issued a decree banning slavery in the New World, he was told to shut up and stay out of secular affairs, just about what they say to him today when he complains about abortion or the US invading Iraq.

Just last week followers of the "Religion of Peace" kidnapped 300 school girls in Nigeria. They are now slaves.

All the Muslim countries' GDP adds up the GDP of Finland. Islam has a degenerate effect on a nation's prosperity. Unfortunately they are being allowed in to the US, which is a problem since one cannot be a good American and good Muslim at the same time, since Islam requires treating people as second class citizens, a practice diametrically opposed to the principles of equal treatment for all citizens, a Christian principle enshrined in the US constitution.

dmxi

... & we have our own press tv that praises 'consume & conformity'!

ediemeowgwick

Not true. Intentionally infecting people with disease is an act of genocide, and yes they were all done with religious excuses of christians. Quit playing like we don't have the source material where all those actions are justified for JEBUS.

Yes, non-muslims have to pay an extra tax in muslim societies. Other than that they are afforded all the same rights as muslims.
Unlike Christian conquerers muslims didn't kill all the people of the places they conquered. During the Crusades the local Christians and Jews FEARED AND HATED the christian crusaders because they would kill jews and christians. They begged to be ruled by muslims who allowed them to live and practice their religion.

Slavery was not "developed" in Arabia. It has ancient roots and includes Europe where serfdom was the slavery of the masses for hundreds of years until recently. Saudi Arabia is a horrible disgusting place I agree, but you're a fool if you don't think they're are slaves in America still.

Christianity does support slavery. It is in the book, "god" supporting it, giving rules for it. You're just a liar here now.

All the islamic countries you site are just coming out of decades and decades of American and European violent interference and support for dictators.

Nice try i*iot. You can pretend all you want.

Christians are the genocidal monsters. 1 million dead in Iraq in the last decade, 500,000 in Aghanistan. How many christians have muslims killed in the same time? 10,000 at most? Woopity doo.

rodrigo

Yeah I was asking to elaborate what he said before making any assumptions that's all. What is so hard to believe? Seriously what? Is that hard to believe?:)

rodrigo

Thanks!

bringmeredwine

This doc contained informative but disturbing lessons of Islam's history in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
To me, these Takfiris and all the other extremist groups killing their brothers in the name of Allah are nothing but psychotic murderers and opportunists.
As if most of these guys can actually read or know anything except hatred and violence.
All of this man's inhumanity to man, will it ever stop? The voices of reason are being drowned out by the never ending gunfire and the cries of the dying.

Arthur Brooks

Jihad means 'struggle against oneself'..

Eric Lawson

Very informative!! What a very complex and confusing set of rules if any rules at all !!!

Diego_Garrido

I'm afraid you and the 'good american' are both right and wrong. Both creeds have and continue to do more bad than good in the world.
As long as people follow other people because of the belief in the revealed truth, in other words, unprobable principles, there will be unjustice and evil carried away by the 'just'.
Same BS, different color.

Lenny

Iranian propaganda. There is nothing peaceful, moderate or tolerant about Islam.

rngfarrell

Fair enough! :)

shaody

Why do I despise all religions so much? Stupidity engenders religion. It is all about superstitions. There is no God so get a life!

RickRayFSM

Religion (definition): A contest designed by men to see whose imaginary sky daddy has the biggest d**k !

xxDarkSidexx

ah yes your right, that's why half the middle east are blowing each other up because they cant agree on islam, thats why they chop your hand off for stealing (gods law) really justified, and hang children or execute pregnant women just because they want to change religion, 100's of civilians beating and stoning to death young women because they committed adultery so again your right, they didn't teach us that at school. yes 100'000s ALL must be fundamentalist, sorry my mistake.

sonibvc

I think the only solution for most muslim states is a nuke! One in each and problem solved. Islam is a terrible religion that should be eradicated like a pest! Once infested, the host is doomed to cruelty, stone age mentality and all hope for progress is sealed! I am actually not saying that as ignorant jerk...I have read the Koran...twice...and did some digging on this mohammed character who created it..an obvious charlatan. Not that any religions are more true, but at least Christianity and Buddhism were created by philosophers who actually had something meaningful to say that makes you think.

The only good thing that ever came out of those places is Oil and Kebabs (and from some other in Asia, not even that!)

sonibvc

Christianity was used mainly as an excuse for greed and power and you have no Christians blowing themselves up...do you?

Islam is worse. People actually believe that sh*t and do the terrible things mainly of faith rather than greed and power! With desires for greed and power, you can work that. With madness however, you cant!

Peace? Look at the Ottoman Empire and how peaceful they were in spreading the religion! Islam never had the technology and progress that Chirstianity had and thus it fools you to think that it did less harm. But thats not true. Had they had the destructive tools that the Christians had, I doubt the world would be here today. Most like we would all be like cave men, beating women and millions being killed every day for something like dancing or singing! Thanks god you dont have these tools and judging by your religion - you never will!

Hussain Fahmy

Judging Islam on the basis of a few strayed Muslims is like eating a rotten fruit and blaming the whole tree.

gary sheppard

not all muslims are suicide bombers but all suicide bombers are muslim....believing you go to heaven for murdering people just proves how stupid and uneducated so many muslims really are.

gary sheppard

there is only one God and christians,muslims and jews each have their own name for him...and all of us ,no matter what our beliefs, will be judged by him so thinking you are automatically going to heaven for murder defies any form of logic.Muslim leaders need to speak up for the TRUE ISLAM and the God of love and peace that all the major religions represent.

Vlatko

Except the "rotten fruit" is on a killing spree, murdering hundreds if not thousands of innocent people across the world... often offended and provoked by trivia... like cartoons or stupid B production movies.

I haven't seen any Buddhists, Hindus or Christians doing that. At least not in the 21st century.

Hussain Fahmy

'Rotten Fruits' will keep fighting the invading thieves and drive them to bankruptcy very soon..

xxDarkSidexx

Well said.

dmxi

are you saying all muslims are on a killing spree or just a few (the rotten ones, that is)? quite shocking statement after all our provocative treatment towards poorer muslim based nations (its always the underdeveloped we pick for democratizing, but surely just a coincidence) which by number of victims we beat by just 'collateral-accident' figures.....& that is for the 21st century alone.

FERENC CSICSERI

Oh yes they are not exception,look what the Hindus did to the Tamil people ,what the Jews do to the Palestinians,what Christian Church do these days so all the Religions have their skeletons in their closets

FERENC CSICSERI

you need to grow up and look into your own wrong doings you don't change anything but is still hope for your ignorance and hatred

FERENC CSICSERI

now you sound like one of them I'am happy you read the Koran
but that mean nothing when you speak like that it's not the religion you have to erase is the ignorance what come with it.you talk about philosophers like what sitting under a tree years and live on nothing,or being borne by a virgin give me a brake

FERENC CSICSERI

you need to get your history right Slavery was develop t by the English and the Portuguese and the Spanish.but originally by the African tribes who sold their own to the White

derb

If islam is the teachings of the quran, then Islam is indeed deeply violent.

Read the quran, allah himself creates eathquakes and famines that kill off entire peoples, pours boiling water down peoples throats followed by freezing water, burns people, drowns people, melts their organs, etc.

A few examples:

"His doom cometh unto you as a raid by night." 10:50

"How many generations have We destroyed since Noah! And Allah sufficeth as Knower and Beholder of the sins of His slaves." 17:17

"We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!" 18:29

"as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and taste the doom of burning." 22:19 - 22:22

derb

Islam is indeed violent, for some examples, see my comment above. Christianity is just as violent.

In the bible god kills suckling children, every living thing in town after town except for the virgin girls, who he dooms to a lifetime of rape. God sends hornets, hail, fire, brimstone, famine, and unnamed diseases, on people, demands the slaughter of thousands, forces men to rip of the heads of pigeons, jab tent stakes through peoples heads, etc..

Moreover, god, like allah, dooms the vast majority of human beings to suffer eternal torture at the hands of his demonic agents in a pit of molten lava and fire.

derb

lol True islam

a_no_n

you assume.

a_no_n

might i remind you of the troubles in Norther Ireland?

Christians have done their fair share of bombing as well.

a_no_n

Except of course for people like the Oslo gunman, The Ugandan ministries that burn children as witches, and the Hiundu's who perform honour killings.

The Buddhits also have a pretty nasty history involving slavery.

they're all guilty of these crimes.

a_no_n

actually the middle east has spent most of the last century on fire because when the British dismantled what was left of the Ottoman empie we drew up the borders without consulting anyone and then left them to deal with it.

But why bring history into it?

a_no_n

seriously? who cares about the history of why these people have been fighting for centuries?

You may not be able to change history, but by being ignorant of it you risk repeating it.

xxDarkSidexx

answer to your questions as above.

1: "seriously?" yes, if you continue to go back that far your end up blaming genghis khan or even evolution for creating life, so yes, who cares, its the present that matters.

2: who cares about the history of why these people have been fighting for centuries? same as above + religion.

of course there is going to be other deaths by other religions but that still doesn't cover the amount of deaths by islam today as stated "At least not in the 21st century"

Dan Haggerty

Of course Europe adopted slavery, but as you said yourself, it originated in Africa:
"but originally by the African tribes who sold their own to the White..."
It should also be noted that Europe and the US eventually eliminated slavery, and at quite a cost in the US, While slavery still flourishes in Africa and especially in Muslim countries

Vlatko

Of course you'll find here and there mass murderers, superstitious fools and caste revenge in every religion but not on the scale, nature and intensity as in Islam... or the extremist part of it. Suicide bombings and executions are now daily routine in some countries.

a_no_n

is there any particular reason you're excluding the rest of history?

why is it just the last fourteen years that counts?

a_no_n

That depends entirely on whether you want to bring history into the debate...because compared to the crusades these 'jihads' we're seeing now are small potatoes.

There's also the ethnic cleansing of the native American people...that was undertaken by a nice jolly bunch of kind and gentle Christians, as were the purges of the Lithuanian pagans by the Teutonic knights, along with a seperate list of other pagan communities that were converted by the edge of a sword. The Jewish Holocaust...Kosovo I can literally go on and on and on, there are examples in every century.

The vast majority of these atrocities were undertaken by Christians. In comparison this bunch of crazies blowing themselves up are like bumbling amateurs, their most effective weapon has been our own shrieking hysteria.

Are executions and bombings made any more or less worse by the scale? The US executed over thirty people last year.

a_no_n

i rake it you get the word ignorant aimed at you a lot...did you ever consider that there might be a logical reason for that?

You want to ignore all of history, and yet i'm the troll.

Personally i think you don't wish to include history in the argument because it doesn't conform to your pre determined prejudices.

Mate you were never interesting to begin with, you were an irritation that needed scratching.

Hussain Fahmy

Perhaps you will show love and intelligence to those who invader your homes very soon.

Vlatko

Of course I don't want to bring history into the debate. We all know what happened. That's why all of my comments were about TODAY. It's a whole new era and we still have people strapped with bombs running around, hijacking and killing innocent people (women and children) on purpose.

Let's face it. Majority of the religions are well out of their infant stages regarding the killings. Extremists in Islam are still holding onto their barbaric misinterpretation of their scriptures, thus there are sects who actually belong in the dark ages.

Fabien L'Amour

Got to love a guy that wants to get rid of cruelty with nukes, very ironic.

Fabien L'Amour

Odd documentary, it looks like a religious document but seems to be more political in reality when it attacks the house of Saud and Wahhabism. It also takes a stance against part of the rebellion in Syria which makes me believe it's not impartial. Worth watching but a critical mind must be used to filter out the propaganda.

xxDarkSidexx

I don't want to ignore history, in-fact I find it very interesting, but where history involves religion it's not going to solve anything today, never will, so before you start laying your stolen un-original insults you need try finding out about a person and not judge them by a paragraph or two, I'm not interested in islam or christianity, my point is is that Islam in today is viloent, christianity has adapted to being more civilised over the years, not perfect but has become much better, moved with the times shall we say, doesn't matter if there was holy wars in the 13th century, that has passed, if you want to run around promoting and defending the violence in islam and justifying it, then you do that, continue to live in the past as it wont get you nowhere, so why don't you go take a shower because your creating a stink in here you sad little man. Let me guess, your supporting russia taking crimea? of course you are, it was there's before 1954.

xxDarkSidexx

so how many more muslims and non muslims need to die before people stop looking up history saying "we owe them"? what have you people who constantly look up history comparing deaths and disasters have actually done yourselves to help fix anything, are you willing to sacrifice your life if your so passionate about history? are you willing to move to a country and have invaders blow your house up and destory families? are you willing to convert to islam? no, so stop looking in the past, we learned our lessons so lets just leave it at that.

Fabien L'Amour

I don't understand your remarks, first you tell people not to judge Islam from the actions of a few rotten fruits then you support them as fighters against the invading thieves that will bankrupt the thieves. Ambivalent?

a_no_n

That doesn't really answer my question does it.

Christianity spent the last 2000 years slaughtering it's way across europe, but that somehow doesn't matter?

that's awfully convenient for your local religion isn't it?

a_no_n

"Christianity has adapted to being more civilised over the years."
You see that's the problem with ignoring history. it leads you to make hideously wrong statements like that.
In a world where children are being burned alive as witches, priests are solely part of the largest Paedophile ring in the world, and homosexuals have to live in constant daily fear of violent reprisals for being who they are, you can't claim the church has been more civilised at all.

You're not ignoring history, you're ignoring current events now!

a_no_n

I'm sorry but i don't accept that history isn't an important factor.

Afghanistan was a fairly liberal place in the fifties. Women could wear skirts and girls went to school without a problem, but then the soviets stormed in and the Americans funded the Mujaheddin to repel them. installing the Taliban in power for the rest of the century.

How is That not an important factor? How can Islam alone be blamed for that set of circumstances?

there isn't a big reset button that gets pushed on every tenth new years eve, sh1t just piles on up.

Considering there are Christians out there who cling onto a scripture they think allows them to stone gay people to death i genuinely don't think it's right to single Islam out without commenting on the other two big religions.

Hussain Fahmy

Why do you think they turn rotten? If someone invades your home and your life, what will you turn into? We do not support their actions but we have to know the root causes. 'What goes around comes around'

Fabien L'Amour

What you wrote would make sense if these crazies came from countries that have recently been invaded.

The documentary states that the Wahhabi movement comes from the Arabian peninsula. Saudi Arabia, Qatar and The United Emirates are the bastions of Wahhabism. They haven't been invaded recently and remain independent countries as far as I know.

These delusional jihadists come from all over the world. As a matter of fact, one just blew himself up in Syria and he was from the U.S.A. Don't tell me he became a jihadi because his country was invaded.

When the ideology of a religion labels non believers as infidels that can be destroyed in the name of God and that "martyrs" go directly to heaven, it leads to that type of craziness in my opinion.

ediemeowgwick

So you think that European settlers that murdered the "heathen" indigenous Americans en masse didn't believe their religion?

Actually, Islam was much further advanced in science and technology BEFORE they were colonized by the Europeans. Who do you think saved all the ancient Greek scientific texts? It wasn't Christians. They burned down the last Library of Alexandria and killed Hypathia in the streets because she was a GEOMETER. Without Islam THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN A RENAISSANCE OR ENLIGHTENMENT.

American/Christian (especially the christians) beat and kill women everyday in America. What are you talking about? You're stupid.

sonibvc

I am no Christian and I do not turn the other cheek! Fight fire with fire or you are doomed to be killed first. If you are French, tell me how do you feel in France with all the arabs/muslims? You know, every time I have been to Paris, the only thing that tells me I am there is the Eiffel Tower - without it, I would think I am in an Arab country! If you enjoy that, be nice to them and give in to their demands!

sonibvc

I can promise you that you can survive on a lot less food than you think! As for being born by a virgin...yes, that is crap! But it does not change the fact that both had something interesting to say that makes you think and question everything. Islam seems to be like the cheap knockoffs the Chinese make to mimic other products, resulting in injury and disappointment for the user :)

sonibvc

Why do you even argue? Here is the proof..How many Muslims have immigrated to live in Christian/Secular states as opposed to Christian/Secular people in Muslim countries??? We all know the answer without looking at the statistics! Even Muslims subconsciously try to escape the results of hundreds of years of Islam that has defined their countries and governments! Unfortunately they bring that Muslim mentality with them not realising that it is the culprit of why they are running away in the first place!

sonibvc

Islam is a medieval religion! While Christianity evolved, Islam did not and it looks like it will not!

And don't put Kosovo with the Holocaust please! Kosovo is a part of Serbia and the only reasons why it was GIVEN to Muslims is because of USA-largely Judeo-Christian nation.

Fabien L'Amour

I am from Canada. I am no Christian either but nuking cities outside a total worldwide war is one of the cruelest act possible. I don't see anything that can justify the act of annihilating and contaminating millions of innocent people because I don't agree with their belief however ridiculous it might be.

Fabien L'Amour

Odd, Pakistan has nukes yet they haven't launched any. I guess these 170 million Muslims don't count as real muslims.

Fabien L'Amour

lol nice edit

a_no_n

i'm sorry but your wrong.

The Moorish Caliphate of North Africa and Iberia was home to many of the early pioneers of medecine and surgical practices as well as all other manners of science.

The Moors had surgical equipment and techniques that we still use today at a time when most Christians thought sickness was a demon that needed praying away.

Why is Kosovo not allowed to be put with the Holocaust? Surely Genocides are Genocides?

a_no_n

lol i didn't see that, what was it?

a_no_n

Oddly enough those nukes wouldn't be possible without Mathmatics (123456789 are all symbols of an Islamic origin).

You probably wouldn't have the lifespan you have now without surgery and medicine (which were advanced by Islamic scholars).

Why is Christianity Philosophy, but Islam a scam?
to be honest that seems like an opinion based more on hatred than research or logic.

I love the way that you think a stone age solution of burning everything is a workable solution...again more hatred than logic ther i think...also didn't we just spend the last decade setting the middle east on fire? how did that work out by the way? Oh yeah, we lost everything and gained nothing that was it!

personally i think the best solution is to ignore the opinions of phychopaths like the terrorists and yourself.

a_no_n

But christianity doesn't have anything interesting to say.

It's basicly just a rip off of the old testament and all the pagan religions it exterminated.

Christianity hasn't got anything new or groundbreaking in it, even back then.

i question your claims to athieism.

a_no_n

dunno...perhaps it might be an important factor that the area has spent the last 3000 years as the cornerstone of no fewer than 11 empires and has never had an individual identity of it's own.

It's always been a pawn of larger nations and thus has no historical infastructure of it's own.

personally i think that's important...but then again i don't have my head lodged up my backside and i can actually see.

a_no_n

you're gong to feel like such an i*iot when you do more research and realise that the Christians were doing exactly the same things.

a_no_n

"Christianity does not support slavery"

not at all true.

Exodus 21:2 lists rules for owning a slave.
Exodus 21:7 explains how a man should sell his daughter as a slave.
Luke 12:47 gives instructions on how slaves should be beaten.
Timothy 6:1 tells slaves they should be good.

read your bible!

Hussain Fahmy

The Muslim Ummah (community) is like one body. If the eye is in pain then the whole body is in pain and if the head is in pain then the whole body is in pain. So we, the Muslim Ummah, whatever colour, nationality or gender, wherever we are like one body. Having said that, Islam never permits self immolation for any reason. Those who commit this act are not in compliance with the Islamic Shariah and they may be 'martyrs' only in the eyes of a non Muslim.

Those who follow the true Message of Islam are known as just MUSLIMS. Wahabi, Sufi, Shia and some others are misnomers. In the Islamic history Wahabi, Sufi, Shia and some others were mere Schools of Thought. All these Schools of Thought had only a perspective or an interpretation according to their understanding. Long after the Death of these Scholars; the followers created their own version with their political masters. Some of these groups have strayed away completely from the Core Values of Islam. While some others who identify themselves by any other than as Muslim, will be representing these political entities and their leaders interest to control wealth and power. Some of these leaders will tie up with the Devil. Muslims have a specific purpose in Life on earth. Most of them know it and pursue to the best of their ability. The term for those Muslim who deviate from Islam are KNOWN as THE KHAWARIJS.

The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous prophets (peace be upon all of them) worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or indirectly. This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening chapter of the Quran, known as Surah al-Fathiha, verse 4: “You alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help.” In (4:37), Allah also said: “Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.” The last Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: Anyone who says: 'There is no god worthy of worship except Allah' and dies holding that belief sincerely will be eventually granted paradise.

Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab made every effort to purify Islam by returning Muslims to the original principles of Islam, as exemplified by the Salaf (Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) First and Second Generation in Arabia) and rejecting what was regarded as corruptions introduced by Bid'ah (Innovation of new practices) and Shirk (Attributing Partners). Although all Muslims pray to one God, Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab was keen on emphasising that no intercession with God was possible without God's permission, which God only grants to whom He wills and only to benefit those whom He wills, certainly not the ones who invoke anything or anyone except Him, as these would never be forgiven.

And lo! this your religion is one religion and I am your Lord, so keep your duty unto Me. (The Noble Quran 22:52) But they (mankind) have broken their religion among them into sects, each sect rejoicing in its tenets. (The Noble Quran 22:53) So leave them in their error till a time. (The Noble Quran 22:54)

Hussain Fahmy

People of all race / religion migrate for various reasons, mostly for economic purposes. There are millions of non Muslims are earning a living in Arabia with their mentality intact.

The nation-state as a form of organisation is on its way out, and that a 100 years from now people will look back at countries like the U.S. the way we look back at medieval kingdoms today.

A continent of oil kingdoms, grabbed at gun point. Democracy is just a word, when the people are starving. The average citizen made to be blind to the reason. A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are burning and the world doesn't believe that you are fighting for freedom, cause you screwed Arabia and gave birth to a demon.

Fabien L'Amour

Nonsense saying Christians used Nukes twice but Muslims would use a lot more Nukes if they only could. That's why I pointed out the 170 million Muslims in Pakistan below.

Fabien L'Amour

Thanks for your in depth explanation.
I see a few logical problems with what you wrote.

1) "Worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or indirectly." Why go to the Mecca to worship at the location of the birth of a prophet? That is not God alone. Then there is the problem of the Noble Quran, that is a thing, not God alone either.

2) "Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab was keen on emphasising that no intercession with God was possible without God's permission."
How did he prove that God gave him permission to come up with that edict outside a book definitely not written by God?

Can't say it makes any sense to me so I will remain an infidel.

xxDarkSidexx

your boring me now a_no_n to think you want to spend a week saying the same thing over and over and over, why dont you go and get laid or something, i'm out of this conversation now, you can go bore someone else. *yawn* bye bye.

Hussain Fahmy

Muslims make pilgrimage to Makkah and we can choose to worship anywhere that is clean. The definition of God in the Islamic context is, He is The One; Not Divisible! The eternal!. He begetteth not nor was begotten and there is none comparable unto Him. No beginning No end. Only Death is an absolute certainty in Life.

It's not Muhammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab's edict, Muslim believe the Noble Quran is the word of Allah and the sign's there are sufficient for us to put our faith completely. Someday it will make sense to those who open up their heart to the message of Islam. Thanks

Dan Haggerty

I'm sure you're aware that Exodus was written 1400 years before Christ, so it can hardly be called Christian. Random quotes from the New Testament do not constitute Church policy. The Church outlawed slavery in its early years towards the end of the Roman Empire. Slavery flourished in Muslim lands and still does.

Dan Haggerty

If you cannot tell the difference between Christianity and Islam, then you may be hopelessly ignorant.

Dan Haggerty

True, The Arab countries were very advanced scientifically, and before Europe. The problem is, they quickly degenerated under the influence of Islam until they became the backward superstitious countries they are today. There are virtually no contributions in science from the Muslim world and not one Nobel prize to a Muslim that I can think of, yet virtually all of civilization that we have today is a Western Christian invention. The result is that the entire GDP of the Muslim world is equaled by the country of Finland.

iStateOfMind3 iii

Who's taxes is paying for what these people do? Remember when your government say they are stepping up support for 'Syrian rebels' that translates into car-bombs.

Speaking about car-bombs in Ireland go look up the Dublin-Monaghan bombs, who is responsible for that do you think?
Our intelligence agencies are behind the most extreme of these groups, those guys certainly aren't fighting on behalf of the people.

iStateOfMind3 iii

I think you're wrong about it being a whole new era, maybe it was looking that way in the late 90's with peace processes under way in Palestine, Ireland, Korea. The world was just about to turn a corner and then bam! 2001 happened.
Most of those guys came from KSA, probably the largest exporter of terrorism in the Arab world, with Qatar not far behind. The most undemocratic, inhumane regime in the Arab world is one we created. Obama couldn't even find time to discuss the human rights situation in his latest meeting with the King there less than two weeks ago.
We have destroyed every real democracy in the Middle East, and the killing going on today in Iraq is totally on us too.

The most vile radio stations, and television channels, that spread hate between Shia and Sunni in Iraq today is either broadcast from the UK, Kuwait, Qatar, or some other country that are our allies in the 'war on terror'. The ISIS that are roaming Anbar today are doing so with weapons and equipment that we paid for, that's on us too since we were warned that bolstering these guys in Syria would eventually spill over into Iraq. It never spills into Israel though does it? So much for religious extremism.

We are the people in there inflaming religious sentiment to fill our coffers, it has almost little to nothing to do with religion.

Fabien L'Amour

A pilgrimage to a location is a way to worship that location. Yet you stated avoid worshiping anything that is not god whether it is a person, PLACE or thing, directly or indirectly. Making a pilgrimage to Makkah is worshiping the birthplace of the prophet that shouldn't be worshiped either. Making a prayer in the direction of Makkah is also a way of worshiping a place, that makes no sense when you say it shouldn't be done.

a_no_n

“For truly, I say to you,
till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until
all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these
commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; (Matthew 5:18-19

Jesus himself says the old testament is valid, so your first statement is not true.

Also the council of Nicaea voted the old testament in when they held the vote deciding what the bible would be...i'd guess they would know slightly more about it than you eh?

The only thing Christians outlawed in regard to slavery was keeping another christian as a slave...so your second assumption isn't true either.

a_no_n

good, take your ignorance somewhere else!

a_no_n

oddly enough the decline began when the Christian war machine kicked into gear and the crusades began.

You ignore exactly half the evidence in making your hate fueled conclusions.

lol all of civilisation is christian?

Congratulations, that's one of the most ignorant comments i've ever read in my life...you literally could not be more wrong!

a_no_n

I think you and I are stretching toward a similar point.

a_no_n

really...so there was no slavery in Rome?

a_no_n

again...Rome.

Hussain Fahmy

The perception of a pilgrimage in the Islamic term is 'a journey to pay homage to a scared place, as an act of devotion and obedience'. To experience the motions and emotions of our predecessors. Millions of Muslim every month who return from Umrah or Hadj every year, experiences the bounty and the blessings of their Creator. That's a personal miracle that strengthens our sacrifice in terms of money, time and effort. We do not worship the place or the direction. All prayers and supplications are directed towards the Creator of the universe. Muslims are rewarded for their SINCERE INTENTIONS of an act they do to the pleasure of their Creator.

Fabien L'Amour

Ok, can you give me an example of what the forbidden worshiping of a place is because I really don't understand what you meant? Calling any place sacred is worshiping it in my opinion.

Hussain Fahmy

Worship in Islam means; to depend completely on Allah. That is - There is no god worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammed (pbuh) is the servant of Allah. In Islam visiting a sacred place is not worship. For an example we do not reach God through an Idol or dead person even if they were Prophets of the past. We communicate with God directly though we do not see or hear Him, He sees and Hears us. I hope this explains the confusion.

ediemeowgwick

Oh, cute you don't understand history. They actually out achieved the west UNTIL COLONIALISM. Without Islam, Europeans would still be thinking Ptolemy was right IF THEY EVEN KNEW PTOLEMY because it was the MUSLIMS WHO SAVED AND FURTHER THAT KNOWLEDGE.

Fabien L'Amour

It must be a translation confusion because worshiping in English is : to show reverence and adoration for something or someone.

Fabien L'Amour

There are differences but the core principle is the same, obey the rules that supposedly come from God in the form of a book and you will blissfully be with God in heaven when you die. Don't and you will burn for eternity.

Dan Haggerty

I said "virtually all" of civilization was a Christian Invention, not "all". I should be more exact, though: 90% of Western civilization is a Christian invention, according to consensus.

Dan Haggerty

You, like others, confuse the God of the old testament with the God of the New Testament, who does not preach those things.

Dan Haggerty

Not true, check your history. Ancient and modern sources identify four possible occasions for the partial or complete destruction of the Library of Alexandria: Julius Caesar's fire during his civil war in 48 BC; the attack of Aurelian in AD 270 – 275; the decree of Coptic Pope Theophilus in 391 AD; and the Muslim conquest of Egypt in (or after) AD 642.

Dan Haggerty

Any Christian who beats and kills women is not behaving according to the tenets of Christianity. A Muslim, however who kills s female family member for having been raped is behaving according to the tenets of Islam

Dan Haggerty

Muslims had nothing to do with Copernicus and Galileo, who described the solar system more accurately than the Muslim Astronomers.

a_no_n

according to nothing.

You're still hopelessly wrong.

The Romans, the Greeks the Mayan all managed it without Christianity.
Democracy is a pre Christian invention, as is charity, marriage, education.

I'm sure Christianity takes the credit for all of these things, but it had no hand in creating them!

Dan Haggerty

Don't assume things I did not say. Who said anything about civilization or Democracy being invented by Christians? or Marriage? Christianity can take credit for other things, like the invention of the University and higher education, the invention of charity, and the unique status of the individual. These are the things that helped create Western Civilization, from which all the world benefits today. I said Western Civilization, and therefore the civilization that dominates history was invented by Christianity

a_no_n

Matthew 5:18 Jesus explicitly states that the Old testaments laws and values still apply until the end of time.

read your bible!

a_no_n

you did...in your very last comment.

i quote "I said "virtually all" of civilization was a Christian Invention, not "all"."

Anyway more wrongness still. Islam ha universities and places of learning as well.

As far as charity goes Rome had a charitable system as early as 500BC about eight hundred years before it became Christian.

As for the unique status of the individual, Rome again was all about the citizen, even hundreds of years before christianity.

Everything you attribute to Christianity, has no origins there whatsoever.

Hussain Fahmy

In Arabic 'Ibada', loosly translated as worship. The root word in Arabic 'Ibada' is derived from 'Abd' means, slave. Muslims show ultimate reverence and adoration to their Creator not to an object. Excess reverence and adoration to something i.e an idol is prohibited in Islam.

Dan Haggerty

The law that Jesus is referring to is the law of the Ten Commandments. That is what is explicit, and it is what is in the next verse, MT5:19

Seriously, how do you not google that to make sure before making such a comment?

Slavery flourishes does it...i presume you have proof of this?

a_no_n

So you're accusing your lord and master of cherrypicking are you?

How about to further the context we go back one,

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill," Matthew 5:17

that clearly states that the old testament is applicable.

ediemeowgwick

Actually yes they did. They were the ones who first wrote of a solar centric solar system. Sorry. You lose again.

Its quite well understood that the knowledge and books that were destroyed en masse by the new christian religion were saved by the Arabs (then the muslims). It is well documented that Copernicus and Galileo got much of their knowledge from re-"discovered" Greek texts (i.e. Ptolemy) from Arabs Muslims who were trading with Venice. Thats where Copernicus and Galileo got access to the texts of Ptolemy and the other ancients. It was actually Copernicus' predecessor who had acquired the Arabic translated texts from Italy.

Sorry to show you are ignorant and wrong again.

Dan Haggerty

Do you have any evidence for that other than your assertion? Because reputable sources such as Wikipedia contradict you and say the following:

It was not until the 16th century that a fully predictive mathematical model of a heliocentric system was presented, by the Renaissance mathematician, astronomer, and Catholic cleric Nicolaus Copernicus, leading to the Copernican Revolution.

Because of the scientific dominance of the Ptolemaic system in Islamic astronomy, the Muslim astronomers accepted unanimously the geocentric model.

Yes, I have researched source material from Arab alchemists and geometers. Al Sufi posited a heliocentric model to compensate for the inaccuracies caused by Ptolemy's use of Epicycles within a geocentric model. He still used epicycles, which was incorrect, but he was correct about the Heliocentric part.

You're just a horrible racist eurocentric person so you have never read anything that isn't from the western lie machine.

That Al Sufi text is from the 10th century.

Sorry buddy. Christians stole all the renaissance and enlightenment ideas from the Muslims. Then since whites are more violent and evil inherently the west used those advancements, which brought whitey out from slavery to inbred idiots, to enslave the rest of the world, and then say, "Oh why is your society so backwards." while they rape women, children, and resources.

derb

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth, I've not come to bring peace, but a sword." -Jesus in Matthew 10:34

Does the god of the new testament cease sending the vast majority of humans to burn in hell?

And aren't these two gods you refer to, after all, the same god? If so, what does god do in the new testament to repent for the heinous evils which you seem willing to admit that he committed in the old testament?

derb

"Saul has killed his thousands, and David his ten thousands!"
Samuel 18:7

lambdoid

What are the units of civilization such that you can quantify them?

gary sheppard

catholic/protestant--shia /sunni--left wing /right wing--black/white--male/female--young/old--anti/pro--goodguys/badguys...it just goes on and on. It isn't even argument, it's just contradiction. Right now this is where we are in history and it's the muslim community's silence that is the loudest. When all the IRA crap was going on in N.Ireland it was the Catholic community who should have spoken up. To quote:- "IT'S NOT THE WORDS OF OUR ENEMIES THAT WE WILL REMEMBER BUT THE SILENCE OF OUR FRIENDS" (Churchill ? can't remember !! lol) It's the people who do have influence over these extremists and who remain silent that must bear some of the responsibility.

gary sheppard

yeah...but this is now. Extremists in N.Ireland were no better. These Jihadists make the IRA/UVF scum we had to endure for 30yrs seem almost quaint, and that's saying something !! I know I keep saying it but it's that roaring silence from the silent majorities in all religions that really annoy me. All extremist doctrine can only be dismantled from within.

Dan Haggerty

See "Human Accomplishment", by Charles Murray. He amasses surveys of human activity from sources all over the world, in art science, technology and other categories. The consensus is that 90% of human accomplishment, which is what civilization is composed of, occurred in The Christian West.

tacos4all

I believe in the word of the Taco. "When one's tummy is a gumblin, when offered a taco, one's booty be rumblin!" Remember, season your meat and all will be forgiven, lol

a_no_n

i think saying it seems quaint is doing it and the people killed a disservice.

What do you expect the silent majority to do?
these extremist lunatics clearly have no problem with massacring whoever is unlucky enough to be around them, so why would anyone risk their families by mouthing off...would you mouth off if there was a chance of your family members being dragged onto the street and beaten to death in retaliation? of course you wouldn't.

Although i do agree with your ending statement. the only way to truely bring an end to these regimes has to come from within.

Us developed countries have had the freedom to get our civil wars out of the way and progress. Now the middle east is going through that phase and it can't because we keep stepping in and mucking it all up.

gary sheppard

Agree....quaint a bad choice of words there but do firmly believe lives would have been saved (in NI) if friends and family had of turned in the murdering b*stards, there were numerous mechanisms to do so anonymously, instead of turning a blind eye. "Evil thrives when good men do nothing" and all that.
Seems a sinister ploy by US and EU to involve themselves in muslim countries then pull out and leave them to do their dirty work for them though..ie:-shia attacking sunni and visa versa in Iraq, Syria, afghahistan,somalia etc and now talking about making huge investments, both militarily and financially, in Nigeria etc.....not to mention the west's (ie Nato) interest in Ukraine and their on going desire to get Sweden on side, a country so often neutral, teetering into Nato....who would have thought ?
We need more neutral countries, not less, so they can act as brokers and peace makers in areas of conflict but the way things are going there will be no neutral countries left. Choosing a port or a starboard cabin on the Titanic will never be as sane as choosing not to sail.

Guest

Fake no true scotsman argument. The Christian bible lays out rules for beating and killing wives, slaves, children, and any other person you want to justify murdering.

See, those of us who have didn't have a pathetic homeschool education and went on to higher education understand that Christianity has actually been the most violent and backwards religion to gain prominence.

In fact. You are being A BAD CHRISTIAN for NOT BEATING YOUR WIFE AND KIDS.

Your religion is a joke.

Dan Haggerty

Nowhere does the New Testament advocate killing or beating wives slaves children or "anyone you want to justify murdering". The most important single part of the New Testament and the foundation of Christianity is the Sermon on the Mount which commands the opposite of what you say.

You are wrong on several other levels; virtually all of modern civilization is a product of Christianity. Almost every advance in science, art, literature, technology and medicine that we have today is the product of Western Christian culture. The Church invented the university system we have today. Indeed many of the scientists of the last 2000 years were priests and ministers. The Jesuit order essentially invented what we know of astronomy in the modern era. Home-schooled children score vastly higher than the products of both private schools and the dismal indoctrination gulag that is the US government school system, whose victims test out at 27th in the world. I presume you are a product of that dysfunctional system; hence your staggering ignorance of so many things.

Dan Haggerty

The Catholic community did speak up against violence on both sides in Northern Ireland (as did many Protestants). Many them were beaten for their efforts by both IRA and unionist thugs.

Achems_Razor

Right, tell that to Galileo Galilei.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

Dan Haggerty

Please, tell me what about Galileo?

Dan Haggerty

Old Testament, not New Testament, therefore not Christian,

Dan Haggerty

Like most people you are misinformed. The Wikipedia article is wrong. Galileo was sanctioned not because he proposed a heliocentric theory, but because he disobeyed orders not to publish his theory as proven, when in fact it was not proven. He was told he could publish his theory as suppositional, i.e., theoretical. He went ahead and did so anyway, which got him in trouble.

Rather than take the word of probably biased Wikipedia authors, why not read the trial transcript yourself and find out what happened? i did.

This intentional misrepresentation of the Galileo affair is one of the favorite Church-bashing tools of atheists and some Protestants, similar to other lies like the ridiculous lie about the Church fathers preventing Columbus from getting financing because they believed the earth was flat.

Too bad we don't have an authority today who can challenge unproven crackpot theories like Darwinism and Anthropocentric Global Warming, which are forced down our throats regardless of the enormous lack of evidence in those theories.

over the edge

If by "Darwinism" you mean the theory of evolution. I would gladly stack up the demonstrable and observable evidence for it along side of your same quality evidence for your "god" and see who actually has proof. What do you say? on the appropriate doc thread of course. Possibly the "evolution vs god" thread?

Dan Haggerty

There are three types of evidence for Darwinist evolution: slim, none and fake, starting from the absurd idea of inanimate crystals mysteriously coming to life and somehow engaging in sex to begin the process of procreation, to the numerous fake examples of evolution forced on unwitting school children such as the fraudulent peppered moth study, and the fake drawings by Ernest Haeckel. The one piece of reality that completely shatters Darwinism is of course the Cambrian Explosion, which literally turns the imaginary Darwinist "Tree of Life" completely upside down, rendering the idea of common descent and gradual metamorphosis of species the fairy tale that it is.

Dan Haggerty

Darwinism requires abiogenesis as a starting point; as in "soup theory". Since the Miller-Urey hypothesis for the spontaneous generation of life has been shown to be impossible, inanimate crystals coming to life is the best explanation Darwinists have come up with to date for the miracle of life.

The moths were dead and pinned to the trees by the researchers.

It's actually Worse than just one biologist using Haeckel's fraudulent drawings, Prominent figures in the "scientific" community such as National Center for Science Education Director Eugenie Scott advocates its usage and says: "...It’s an easy way to illustrate a point...”

New York Times science reporter James Glanz, in 2001 reported that Haeckel’s “drawings were reproduced in textbook after textbook for more than a century.” Indeed, Glanz pointed out that one of the biology textbooks recycling Haeckel’s embryo drawings was co-authored by
none other than Bruce Alberts, then-head of the National Academy of Sciences,So the fraud is alive and well in the "science" industry.

During the Cambrian explosion. All body plans of the animal kingdom appeared in the space of about 10 million years, Exactly the opposite of what Darwin proclaimed. Darwin did say the Cambrian explosion was the most serious objection to his theory and guessed that eventually the fossil record would conform to his theory by yielding numerous transitional forms. Exactly the opposite has happened however. I am surprised you are not aware of the Cambrian Explosion and its devastating effect on the Darwinist narrative.

I don't think we need to go to another site to conduct a discussion of Darwinism, as this thread seems to be working fine. More to the point, since you are not current on any of the points of discussion, I don't think you're equipped to participate in such a discussion, so I'll pass on your offer. Remember, never bring a knife to a gun fight.

over the edge

i addressed your misleading statements once this will be the last time until you provide demonstrable proof your god actually exists,

- abiogenesis is not evolution and i can play the infinite regression game too.

- the peppered moth experiment has flaws but it does show natural selection. it has also been repeated in recent times.

- again :show me where one modern biologist who uses Haeckel's drawings as evidence for evolution"

-the cambrian explosion occurred over 70-80 million years and nowhere is punctuated equilibrium in conflict with evolutionary theory.

- while i respect the accomplishments of Darwin what he said over 150 years ago has nothing to do with modern evolutionary theory.

- don't give me "bring a knife to a gun fight." as an excuse for your lack of demonstrable proof for your god. you don't have it and we both know it. so far all that has happened is i have defended claims i did not make while you refuse to defend claims you did

Achems_Razor

Right, how about Giordano Bruno when he was burned at the stake in 1600 for his cosmological theories?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

the list goes on and on.

Dan Haggerty

Bruno was executed because he was a heretic. It had nothing to do with is weird cosmological theories.

Achems_Razor

So you are saying he was executed because he did not believe in your religion, and why was his cosmological theories weird?

purplehaze8622

Kosovo wasn't even Muslim majority until WW2 when Kosovo was part of Nazi puppet state and the Serbs were forced to flee.

a_no_n

so? are you trying to Justify it?

FERENC CSICSERI

I'am ready for any invader at any times,all I' hear is treats and hate so come and invade my home

Space_Cadet_1952

"I wud just like t'thank th' members of my constituency who have not capitulated to Paisleyism", signed The Big Maan.

Morkos Abdelmalak

Well,you will find extremists in any religion even if your religion is all about love and peace ,but what most people fail to understand extremism is embedded in islam and part of it ..'' the concept of jihad and martyrdom ''

People who love to bring crusaders and the killings under communism as examples of extremism in christianity and atheism but that's completely absurd.

first crusaders were not christian jihad because the jihad concept isn't part of the church or christianity ,crusaders were for other reasons which : 1- the aggressive muslim jihad which overtook big part of christendom and the fear of their expansion to the the rest

and yes, the church manipulated the christians for these wars by telling them it's their christian duty but the above 2 reasons were behind the crusaders

same as the killings under communism were political ones because there is nothing in atheism as the jihad concept

i.MYSELF FIND RELIGIONS ARE FULL OF SHIIT BUT ISLAM IS THE WORST

jackmax

I agree with most of what you have said, however if we were to look into the complete history of the christian faith it could be said that the early christians appeared to have the same mentality as what we are seeing with the current day "muslims".

My opinion on the current situation with ISIS is that although they have been enforcing their agenda on the unarmed, weak and innocent in the name of their religion, in real terms they aren't practicing their faith in anyway that resembles what the majority of muslims believe or adhere to.

You may recall just recently that an Australian born child of a man that is fighting with ISIS was pictured holding a severed head of one of their victims. This man had an extensive criminal record in Australia, which included drugs and other forbidden acts under their faith.
That being the case and the fact that he was know to use and sell drugs which is against their religious belief and what their "book of lies" express, does it not invalidate his claim of religion beliefs.

These scum are using the muslim faith as a shield to what their agenda is' and until the real muslim communities and the other members of the international communities present the evidence in a strong and united voice that they are nothing more than a rebel terrorist group and they are not in any way a part of the religion they claim to be.
I have the opinion that we should stop referring to them as anything but terrorist. It could be said that each time they are reported as muslims there is another disenchanted member of their faith that sees this as an opportunity justify their beliefs that killing and harming others is what their "magic man" has planned for them in his "grand plan". As with everything if we take the glory and justification away the incentive is also reduced to the true believer in their faith. By presenting them as muslims is only fuelling the fire.
There is enough evidence to ensure that they are using a fallacy to promote their agenda. Lets start calling these criminals what they really are. TERRORIST.

jackmax

Although I agree with your sentiment,
i would only ask how you have come up with your 2000 years of slaughtering it's way across europe.
I have been looking for any evidence to back your claim but to no avail. Could you provide your source for that information so I can have the pleasure of learning more about the history of christianity and the most resent act of terror they have committed in the name of their religion.
By the way I'm a non believer getting to the stage of being quite vocal in my hatred of all religions. But I think we should base our arguments on facts and not on half truth and myths. As all that does is open the door for more fallacies and lies being used to argue for there beliefs.
As they have no evidence to their beliefs would it not serve them well when they can nitpick responses to add in their argument to show that there are some of us are also creating things to strengthen our argument, when in actual fact we can let the truth and their lack of evidence defeat their argument.

a_no_n

nah it's fair enough, an entirely reasonable request...I guess i am also being a bit generous as it didn't really start until Constantine the 1st made Christianity the religion of the Roman empire in he began several waves of persecutions across the entire empire toward the end of his reign in the 320's. Within just a few of generations all the Roman pagans were gone and their temples torn down.
Theodocius continued the persecutions, as did Constantius.

Outside of Rome you had men like Crowbone in Scandinavia, who tied Viking pagans by the arms to large logs and cast them adrift into the sea (when he was feeling dramatic)

After him you're getting into the Crusader era. There you had the Reconquista of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily and a little bit later the Teutonic knights slaughtering Lithuanians en masse. Lithuania was the last pagan nation in Europe, they held out until 1387

There's also Christian on Christian violence too, like the persecution of the Arian Christians and Cathari Christians in France. There was also the Sack of Zara and the the sack of Constantinople during the fourth Crusade.

And of course every crusade was marked with mass slaughters of Jews settled in Europe, (a tradition that only really fell out of fashion after 1945).

Jennifer Sosa

Every kamikaze was a Japanese na?

Jennifer Sosa

I will just be frank and say that religions differ in the way they worship, but what or who they worship is all the same so i dont know why people talk crap about other religions when that means you are talking crap about yourself as well. Everyone in every religion sins. But what these extremist are doing is beyond sinning, they are not muslims when they clearly are not acting like muslims. The stupid people are those who have been brainwashed by the media. The root of all this i like to say is Bush. All in the name of oil.

a_no_n

You say that, but if you look at the birth of any nation in existence it tends to be done on a tidal wave of blood.

When the Normans conquered Saxon England they solidified their rule with a wave of terror and the harrying of the North.

When the Americans formed their country they genocided the natives almost to extinction, same with the Australians.

It's brutal but apparantly it works. You can't really judge people living in those conditions by the same standards you'd judge your neighbour with...Would you do any different if it was your country that had been torn apart by a decade long war? I don't think I would.

I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying it tends to be the way things go.

a_no_n

Sorry but you're completly wrong. Crusaders who died on crusades were granted a dispensation by the pope obsolving them of all their sins...and the saints are split into two groups defined solely by Martyrdom, to say the concept doesn't exist in Christinaity is frankly ridiculous!

The crusades were sanctioned by the Vatican and called for by the popes! they are as much a christian institution as your local soup kitchen.

The military orders like the Hospitallars and the templar were ordained by the popes, and answered only to them, they were the popes private armies!

You've also gotten the reasons for the crusades entirely wrong. Muslims were't capturing "Christian" lands, they were capturing ROMAN lands. The churches were under no threat and pilgrimage routes were kept open. Christians and Jews even had their own quarters of the city in Muslim occupied Jerusalem...a luxury they were not offored by the Catholic crusaders after they were done washing the streets in blood. Conquering Christian lands wasn't the point of the Muslim expansions, throwing off the Roman Yoke was.

the closest thing to a threat that the churches in Jerusalem came under was when Salah-ah-din retook the city and used the churches as a stable as an insult. (which when you compare to what the crusaders did to the dome of the rock is nothing!)

Anyway the Crusaders wound up destroying Christian Constantinople (who were the ones asking for help in the first place) centuries before the Muslims ever got there.

a_no_n

sorry, wrong! wrong wrong wrong!

I know you think you can cherrypick your religion and deny the old testament dispite Jesus himself saying it's entirely valid...You're the only christian who thinks that, many would call you a heretic for saying it! The old testament (which is a christian document) has full explanations for the correct way to buy, sell and beat your slaves.
oh yeah and it's full of "righteous" infanticide and murdered wives.

You give christianity the credit for muslim inventions and developments in science and art! I've explained elsewhere that it was infact the Moorish Caliphate of Cordoba that came up with most of those things! Christians just stole them after recapturing Iberia.

If anything Christianity has been the main force SUPPRESSING these advances!

Home schooled children score higher? Evidence please!

a_no_n

i take it you haven't ever been to a natural history museum...or read a book in the last twenty years.

Evolution is a scientific fact. It's been observed,

Calling something fake doesn't make it fake...you my friend are nothing but hot air and misconceptions.

a_no_n

your ignorance makes my head hurt...i have no idea where to start untangling this colossal know of boll0cks you've woven for yourself to believe.

jackmax

I think you have this mis understanding on Australian history. It is true that there was slaying of the black fellas but if you were to actually studied our history you would find that the conflicts that occurred that many were instigated by the black fellas and thats where the major death tolls arose. There were incidents where the local white population hunted down the black fellas but they were very few and far between.

The birth of a nation you say but most countries throughout the middle east are older than the USA and Australia so saying it the birth of a new nation seems to be far from being correct.

a_no_n

yeah i'm going to concede entirely to you on that front, i know next to nothing about Australia or it's history.

Although i'm sticking to my guns about IS being a new nation. They overthrew the Iraqi puppet government that we installed, they've implimented their own laws, they have their own standing army and are redrawing their borders...it's not comfortable to think about but it ticks all the boxes.

*EDIT*

Ok, i just reread your post and my jaw hit the floor...Really? the aborigonees started it?

They started it...against the people who settled themselves on land that was theirs in the first place? Either i'm missing something here or you are...But beside that, that's your justification for genocide, they started it? jesus h christ...Let me guess, you probably think the removing and relocating of all their children was their idea too right?

It sounds like an awfully one sided opinion to me, so i withdraw my initial comment, it would appear you have even less of a clue than I do. I don't know much about Australian history, but i know enough about human history to know that's all bullsh/t!

Just Thinking

JS...they say "Allah is greatest"...not as one of these "scholars" says that it means that he is "great"...if they were all the same, Allah would be content to say he is great, not "greatest"...I agree that the root is oil but I would say those Madras' are flush with cash because your environmentalist friends won't stop driving their Preus's so someone has to drill the oil so they can drive from one global warming protest to the next....and 6 years after Bush and you are still blaming him for every evil on earth still?

Just Thinking

oops...MA....you are actually speaking of the Catholic church of Rome, Italy and they actually have racked 50 million murders of "Christians" over the last 10 centuries or so...Roman Catholics believe that salvation is found in Jesus Christ Plus good works Plus staying in the Roman Church....Christians believe that faith in Jesus Christ Alone saves a person...big dif...since they went to great lengths to exterminate us, "Faith in Christ Alone" folks....just saying.

flash321

I think this is typical Islamic apologetics. The fact is, that those who carry out Jihad ARE Muslims. Any one of them will show you the verses from the Koran that say that he can carry out violence. The idea that only an Islamic scholar can interpret when Jihad is necessary is laughable. If it were the case that some poor misguided fool had misinterpreted the holy books, then you would surely see a few people who were misguided. The fact is that thousands of Jihadis are on the loose, with full assurances that they are following the true Islamic path, directly from Islamic holy books. By the way, Press TV is Iranian government propaganda, and I doubt anyone takes that source any more seriously than they would any other terrorist propaganda.

jackmax

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Musiims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims'

Think of it:

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM

**********SO THIS LEAD TO *****************
They’re not happy in Gaza
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
They're not happy in Nigeria
They're not happy in Kenya
They're not happy in Sudan

******** So, where are they happy? **********
They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in Belgium
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in Norway & India
They're
happy in almost every country that is not Islamic! And who do they
blame? Not Islam... Not their leadership... Not themselves... THEY BLAME
THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!! And they want to change the countries
they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they
were unhappy and finally they will be get hammered
!!!!

'Instigated by the black fellas' ??? Would that be the kind of instigating people do when they're defending themselves, or the sort of instigating people do when they stomp all over someone else's land and claim it as their own? Are we ignoring the rapes and murders? What about the stealing of children? Maybe you're not explaining things properly, but it reads like you're saying that they got what they deserved. Naughty little 'black fellas.' Luckily they have you to explain their failings to them, bonza!

jackmax

Although these things happened they happened at different times I was talking about the settlement, I would be the first one to admit that there have been other periods that has been some what ordinary in our country's history but to combine them all in a short two paragraph statement would not do it justices. And did Capt Cook claim this land in the name of Australia or in the name of the British Crown? So in fact it was done by the Poms not white australia at all as we never became a nation until 1901 so up until then it was the poms. So I think bollocks is more appropriate than "bonza".

dewflirt

How do you separate our history from your own? I'm not saying you are personally responsible although the 'black fellas' comment did get my back up, I can't deny that. It did sound very blamey, blame all over our few comments! Saying that, I still don't think that any retaliation on their part was unwarranted as we did invade and cause havoc in all sorts of ways. We could probably beat each other senseless with this conversation, best thrashed out leather on willow? Truce for now, and apologies for my big mouth... Even though I did have a bit of a dig... Again!?! ;)

jackmax

It would appear that from my point of view any pom that throws stones at us Aussies should look at their own backyard first eg: what did ya do to the Indian and what compensation did your country pay them and what are you still doing to Ireland.
I have looked at our history and I will admit that there are thing that our fore father did that disgust me but I will not be held accountable for there actions. If you were to study the "black fella's" history you will notice that each area to them was their country and anyone that entered their land was invading their country.

dewflirt

Jack, did you even read my reply? I think not. If you had you might have noticed that I said WE invaded. I've not had the pleasure /misfortune of running my country and therefore no opportunity to make an apology for all our past crimes. I'm well aware of the atrocities we have committed - you might say that our modus operandi is something along the lines of invade, kill and claim. Best not forget rape and pillage either. Having only myself to speak for, I make my apologies by not being a blinkered, bigoted racist and not passing the ancestral buck which, by the way is Irish on my Fathers side.
(Edit! accidentally posted to soon! )
I hope that also goes some way to counteract some of the UKIP we're suffering from at the moment. Makes me sick to the stomach. Sometimes feels like we're going back to the bad old days. Maybe I'm just having a bit of pre election panic ;))

Mohammed Taha

peace be upon you , can you gave me some answers a bout who made world war and who made gmo food and who made bombs and who made aidz and who sell lays to peaple ....... but an other big question who made those science field's more developped

1 Astronomers and astrophysicists
2 Biologists, neuroscientists, and psychologists
3 Chemists and alchemists
4 Economists and social scientists
5 Geographers and earth scientists
6 Mathematicians
7 Physicians and surgeons
8 Physicists and engineers
9 Political scientists
you shoold now who are real muslim's and who are pretending islam now , and because islam is so developped than any ideology today or existed before and is based on science :people who pretend that are muslim's today stoped working whit real islam from more than 600 years before .

jackmax

I'll answer your big question first.
If you're going to imply that it is or was the Muslims that have developed these fields of science you are wrong.
It is just one of many fallacies many of faith believe with out any evidence.
If you look at the evidence you will find that the majority of the science community either don't have the belief in some super natural being. The minority that do believe will have the capabilities to switch off their beliefs before they commence their particular field of science. you will also find that most are either agnostic or atheist and the issue of some super natural being does not even enter their thought process..

I have never said that all muslims are terrorist as only a fool would think that.
But what I have said is that the muslim community has allowed this extremist element to continue to do horrific and terrible acts of violence to so many world wide.
If the muslim community showed some leadership to these extremist many of these people would know that it is not accepted and will not and should not be tolerated.

How many times have you defended your faith to non believers or persons of different faiths than yours publicly.
How many times have you spoken up to these parasites that hide behind your religion about what they are doing publicly.

Why is it that you would rather defend them by nit picking the so called nice aspects of your religion and making out that we have mis understood what is written in the Koran.

whats up

One line describe what kind of morality u used in u r religion (which is now ideology )

lie until disbeliever believe ........and many others verses

U say something different and u r ground reality is always different.....
....and after reading u r books the real problems is inside u r books not in outside world and west is not whole responsible for that .....

after getting education u r people committing crime by referring quran
and hadith
the hate is in that books and which is main source of u r ideology

and still people accepting as base of morality on the basis of which they want to justify there crime ......

and no matter what u r sect within islam is all r reading that same
book .....so unless u reform that .....soon
there is no end to u r problem because world is moving fast and if u not change the vulnerability of religion is dangerous to u and for other people

whats up

u r dumb person i ever seen in all these comments

rumplerumple

Probably the most stupid comment I have ever read

truthseeker

Grumpy, correction on 9/11...all evidence points to an inside job. But it is so hard for people to believe that their own government would do that. Well not exactly. It was secret government within the government, as Kennedy, Clinton, and many other presidents warned us about.

Imran

"Takfirism has its roots in Wahhabism"

Absolute rubbish! Is that why the "Wahhabi", more accurately Salafist, scholars, e.g. all of the prominent scholars of Saudi Arabia including Shaykh al-Albaani have rejected the ideology of Takfirism since the time of the so-called founder of "Wahhabism" - Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhab.

Seriously, read "Wahhabi Islam" by De-Long Bas, as well as 'Biography and Mission of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab' by Jalal Abul-Rub, and 'The Life, Teachings, and Mission of Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab' by Jamal ud-Deen Zarabozo for a complete refutation of this lie perpetuated by the ignorant, particularly the Sufis.

mchlfx

I just learned here anyone can justify hate. I practice caution where caution is due but fear nothing. Grow a pair and truly face your fear rather than nurturing it.

mike m

awesome,just awesome.
no one here agrees with any one here.
and inside that is the answer to all of it.