Wow do you really hate America that much to even pay attention to these things?

1) In the 100-plus years of of steel framed buildings, only three have ever collapsed due to fire. All three buildings fall at free fall speed.
It wasn't just a fucking fire. A plane, which is made out of a ton of metal, flammable objects, oil, etc, crashed into these buildings. Do two of these "3 buildings" include the twin towers? Lastly, this is a span of 100 years... electronics and technology have only just started expanding within the last 40ish years or less.

2) Fire fighters, police officers, reporters, and medical personel all seen explosions going off inside the buildings.
The plane crashed into the building... of course there would be explosions inside... big deal.

3)In September 2000, a right-wing think tank drafted a document called "Project for New American Century"(PNAC). It says that if we are going to transform America into " tomorrows dominent force", it is going to be a long process , unless theres a catastrophic event like a new Pearl Harbor.
This doesn't prove anything. besides, what happened to the second part of this claim about America being tomorrow's dominant force? As far as I'm concerned, it HAS BEEN the dominant force of the world for the past 100 years, and nothing has changed from this, except that we decided to start a war in Iraq, which doesn't change anything concerning America's strength.

4) On the morning of 911, Norad was in day two of a week long terrorist drill called "Vigilant Guardian". This exercise was a simulation of a real terrorist attack on the WTC, involving hijacked airliners.
This doesn't prove anything either

5) The official story is that WTC 7 collapsed as a result of fire, yet the building had all the makings of a controlled demolition. The lease holder of the building even admitted that he gave the order to pull the building down.
Passenger plane crashing into tower = demolition? Of course the lease holder pulled the fucking building down - it was gonna collapse and shit - the least they could do is make sure it implodes so damage to surrounding areas are minimal.

6) Fact, uncontrolled jet-fuel fires cannot liquidize steel. Steel melts at 2750 degrees f and and above. Open air fires burn at 1200 degrees f max. Also, thermite can melt steel.
Yes, but steel weakens to 50% at less than 1200F. You don't fucking need liquid metal for a building to collapse.

7) Controlled demolition experts all say it was a controlled demolition. The steel beams at the bottom to the towers were cut at angles to make the towers fall.
No shit the towers were made to fall - and it fucking fell vertically too - It was inevitably going to collapse and they were making sure the damage was minimal.

8) The Bush administration has done everything to prevent a full investigation into 911. President Bush, and Dick Cheney will not testify under oath for 911.
Bullshit? They will not testify because they don't need to say anything about this bullshit.

If the government didn't care about killing 3,000 innocent people in the process of fabricating a terrorist act, wtf is stopping them from covering up this conspiracy and killing the idiots spreading the bullshit?

Wow do you really hate America that much to even pay attention to these things?

1) In the 100-plus years of of steel framed buildings, only three have ever collapsed due to fire. All three buildings fall at free fall speed.
It wasn't just a fucking fire. A plane, which is made out of a ton of metal, flammable objects, oil, etc, crashed into these buildings. Do two of these "3 buildings" include the twin towers? Lastly, this is a span of 100 years... electronics and technology have only just started expanding within the last 40ish years or less.

2) Fire fighters, police officers, reporters, and medical personel all seen explosions going off inside the buildings.
The plane crashed into the building... of course there would be explosions inside... big deal.

3)In September 2000, a right-wing think tank drafted a document called "Project for New American Century"(PNAC). It says that if we are going to transform America into " tomorrows dominent force", it is going to be a long process , unless theres a catastrophic event like a new Pearl Harbor.
This doesn't prove anything. besides, what happened to the second part of this claim about America being tomorrow's dominant force? As far as I'm concerned, it HAS BEEN the dominant force of the world for the past 100 years, and nothing has changed from this, except that we decided to start a war in Iraq, which doesn't change anything concerning America's strength.

4) On the morning of 911, Norad was in day two of a week long terrorist drill called "Vigilant Guardian". This exercise was a simulation of a real terrorist attack on the WTC, involving hijacked airliners.
This doesn't prove anything either

5) The official story is that WTC 7 collapsed as a result of fire, yet the building had all the makings of a controlled demolition. The lease holder of the building even admitted that he gave the order to pull the building down.
Passenger plane crashing into tower = demolition? Of course the lease holder pulled the fucking building down - it was gonna collapse and shit - the least they could do is make sure it implodes so damage to surrounding areas are minimal.

6) Fact, uncontrolled jet-fuel fires cannot liquidize steel. Steel melts at 2750 degrees f and and above. Open air fires burn at 1200 degrees f max. Also, thermite can melt steel.
Yes, but steel weakens to 50% at less than 1200F. You don't fucking need liquid metal for a building to collapse.

7) Controlled demolition experts all say it was a controlled demolition. The steel beams at the bottom to the towers were cut at angles to make the towers fall.
No shit the towers were made to fall - and it fucking fell vertically too - It was inevitably going to collapse and they were making sure the damage was minimal.

8) The Bush administration has done everything to prevent a full investigation into 911. President Bush, and Dick Cheney will not testify under oath for 911.
Bullshit? They will not testify because they don't need to say anything about this bullshit.

If the government didn't care about killing 3,000 innocent people in the process of fabricating a terrorist act, wtf is stopping them from covering up this conspiracy and killing the idiots spreading the bullshit?

and yes it is a bit weird that the government would be so sloppy if they indeed kill their own 3000 civilian.

but that still doesn't take away the fact that they suspiciously refuse, until now, to give any clear evidence that the 911 happens just like they said it did.

There were numerous camera surveillance around the perimeter of pentagon. Yet, just a couple of hours after, the government confiscated every last one of them and refuse to release them until now. And it's important for people to see that video because it'll put all the suspicion away about the whole thing.

Why did the pentagon thing raises suspicion? Coz after the "plane" hit the pentagon. They claimed the friggin thing burned and melted to nothing. They pour sands all over the lawn to destroy any evidence. Shipped the crashed plane parts overseas. They confiscated the videos of it recording the whole thing. Which, if they show would put all the 911 truth movement to stop.

But they didn't

Now is it really idiotic to ask for things like that to be cleared up? If there's no conspiracy, no fabricated truth, then showing the god damn thing should be no problem for the american government right? Is that conspiratorial of me to want to ask things like that?

and yes it is a bit weird that the government would be so sloppy if they indeed kill their own 3000 civilian.

but that still doesn't take away the fact that they suspiciously refuse, until now, to give any clear evidence that the 911 happens just like they said it did.

There were numerous camera surveillance around the perimeter of pentagon. Yet, just a couple of hours after, the government confiscated every last one of them and refuse to release them until now. And it's important for people to see that video because it'll put all the suspicion away about the whole thing.

Why did the pentagon thing raises suspicion? Coz after the "plane" hit the pentagon. They claimed the friggin thing burned and melted to nothing. They pour sands all over the lawn to destroy any evidence. Shipped the crashed plane parts overseas. They confiscated the videos of it recording the whole thing. Which, if they show would put all the 911 truth movement to stop.

But they didn't

Now is it really idiotic to ask for things like that to be cleared up? If there's no conspiracy, no fabricated truth, then showing the god damn thing should be no problem for the american government right? Is that conspiratorial of me to want to ask things like that?

No, don't even go there. I don't need to calm down, cuz I'm not angry. I just find these arguments pretty stupid, and respond in an appropriate tone to emphasize my point.

Do you realize what the pentagon is? It's the friggin headquarters of the US Department of Defense. It's a high security military building, full of possibly the most advanced technology in the United States, etc. Now, do you think its a smart idea to open up the building and show off the building like some tourist attraction? Not if you want us to reveal absolutely ANY information that could possibly allow spies to infiltrate our defenses, give enemy nations an idea of how strong we are (or how vulnerable), and jeopardize the safety of our entire nation, just for the sake of "clearing up suspicion" to the ignorant public?

There's a difference between trying to cover things up, and simply not wanting to reveal it (possibly for other reasons). You don't have any proof of the government trying to "cover things up," but you do have a lot of suspicion. And what did the United States government ever do to earn your suspicion? They already give us more freedom than we should be allowed to have, and here are some people evidently taking advantage of this freedom - spreading bullshit and raising doubt, and for what? People need to get a grip on reality - there's absolutely no reason the government needs to kill 3000 innocents and fabricate a conspiracy, and they haven't.

No, don't even go there. I don't need to calm down, cuz I'm not angry. I just find these arguments pretty stupid, and respond in an appropriate tone to emphasize my point.

Do you realize what the pentagon is? It's the friggin headquarters of the US Department of Defense. It's a high security military building, full of possibly the most advanced technology in the United States, etc. Now, do you think its a smart idea to open up the building and show off the building like some tourist attraction? Not if you want us to reveal absolutely ANY information that could possibly allow spies to infiltrate our defenses, give enemy nations an idea of how strong we are (or how vulnerable), and jeopardize the safety of our entire nation, just for the sake of "clearing up suspicion" to the ignorant public?

There's a difference between trying to cover things up, and simply not wanting to reveal it (possibly for other reasons). You don't have any proof of the government trying to "cover things up," but you do have a lot of suspicion. And what did the United States government ever do to earn your suspicion? They already give us more freedom than we should be allowed to have, and here are some people evidently taking advantage of this freedom - spreading bullshit and raising doubt, and for what? People need to get a grip on reality - there's absolutely no reason the government needs to kill 3000 innocents and fabricate a conspiracy, and they haven't.

Ok since you want to discuss this in a hostile manner.. which i didn't. let's do it your way.

First of all. You dumb prick.

What they ever did to earn our suspicion. As i said in my last post. They mysteriously shipped the remain of the plane after it hits pentagon. And covered the whole lawn with sand so that no investigation can be made in there. But i guess you were too stupid to read.

Spreading "bullshit" and raising doubt. For what you asked. Well let's see.. hmm coz your fucking government decided to invade another country becoz of the whole 911 thing?? And killing your own fucking soldiers. And taking control of that nation's oil??

2nd of all. It's was a surveillance camera from a fucking gas station (and other various civilian premises). If it were so dangerous, why would it be allowed to have a camera there in the first place??

And i'll mention as well, that the official reason why the CIA still refused judicial watch to release the tape was because: "they're investigating other various crimes which (coincidentally) happened at the same time the tragedy strucked the pentagon"

see you don't even fucking know. you're wasting my time kiddo. why don't you go research around first, then spill your right-wing extremist bullshit then.

Wow do you really hate America that much to even pay attention to these things?

So in order to love our country we just have to believe absoultly everything without raising a question imo thats extremely ignorant especially when there is holes in the evidence presented to us. A lot of things happened after 9/11 and from what I can see the US is benefitting more from it then the terrorist that you claim committed it. We can now do anything we want in the Middle east and just keep bringing back 9/11 so we can support it. Remember we are fighting a war in Iraq right now which had nothing to do with 9/11 how the hell did that happen? We just want questioned answered and thorough investigations on 9/11 instead of cover ups that make it look even more suspicious I dont see whats soo looney about that.

I don't believe it was an inside job, but I do believe the government ignored the signs of a possible threat of a terrorist attack. We believed we were invincible and left our self open for terrorist attack. I mean hello this wasn't the first attempt on the twin tower's this one just happened to succeed. To each their own if you want to believe that it was an inside job go ahead it's your prerogative. One thing how is the US benefiting from this war? (read in another post how we are benefiting) We are debt up the ya-zoo, continuous loss of life, gas prices through the roof, continuous bashing of our country etc... hey maybe it's just me but I don't see that as somewhat beneficial. Also, I do kind of understand why that kid wrote Wow do you really hate America that much to even pay attention to these things? He probably didn't read the post fully just thought another American bashing thread, but hey he is a kid what else can you say. Just read some forum posts o n numerous different threads lots of I hate the US, I hate Americans, All Americans are stupid, oh and my all time fave I'm American but I hate America. Okay that was off subject but oh well I just keep reading and after awhile I'm kinda blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. 9/11 happened (sucks but true) Am I still angry and want to retaliate(but will admit at first I wanted vengeance) no, when I see clips do I still cry for the loss of my fellow human beings YES, but we need to move pass it (but never forget the loss of innocent life) and get out of Iraq. *yawn*

supermalv wrote:
Ok since you want to discuss this in a hostile manner.. which i didn't. let's do it your way.

First of all. You dumb prick.

What they ever did to earn our suspicion. As i said in my last post. They mysteriously shipped the remain of the plane after it hits pentagon. And covered the whole lawn with sand so that no investigation can be made in there. But i guess you were too stupid to read.

Spreading "bullshit" and raising doubt. For what you asked. Well let's see.. hmm coz your fucking government decided to invade another country becoz of the whole 911 thing?? And killing your own fucking soldiers. And taking control of that nation's oil??

2nd of all. It's was a surveillance camera from a fucking gas station (and other various civilian premises). If it were so dangerous, why would it be allowed to have a camera there in the first place??

And i'll mention as well, that the official reason why the CIA still refused judicial watch to release the tape was because: "they're investigating other various crimes which (coincidentally) happened at the same time the tragedy strucked the pentagon"

see you don't even fucking know. you're wasting my time kiddo. why don't you go research around first, then spill your right-wing extremist bullshit then.

"You dumb prick"? Lol okay MAYBE the US government is all a conspiracy, and you know much more than I do. Atleast I don't back up my arguments with insults. I never discussed this topic in a hostile manner - I called your conspiracy as well as your evidence "bullshit" but I never personally insulted anyone so far, so why don't you calm down and stop being a prick? The only thing I'm guilty of is having faith in my government, so fuck off.

I think your seeing the situation in a very dim light. There were plenty of reasons that the US entered the War in Iraq - and it's not only because of "revenge" for 9/11 or oil. First of all, it wasn't even Iraq that hijacked planes and crashed into the world trade center. The US entered the war under the suspicion that the Iraqi government was funding terrorists and producing weapons of mass destruction. Even if no WMDs were found so far, it was still worth the investigation. Also, establishing a democracy in these dictatorship and terrorist-ridden countries wouldn't be such a bad thing either. I want to know what you mean by the US "killing their own soldiers"

About the tapes - what could possibly be in those tapes that would clear your suspicion anyway? They were taken from a nearby gas station right? That means you won't be able to see anything specific, except some clouds of dust. There could be possibly hundreds of other reasons why the government isn't releasing these videos. For an example - maybe its too shocking to simply be released to the public, maybe as they said, they are investigating other things such as crimes, and ultimately, they simply don't need to - why bother wasting their time releasing this stuff if they don't need to?

"Hey let me see the surveillance camera on 9/11 where a plane crashed into a pentagon"
"Why should I?"
"So you can clear my suspicion that you guys are evil"
"Fuck off."

"You dumb prick"? Lol okay MAYBE the US government is all a conspiracy, and you know much more than I do. Atleast I don't back up my arguments with insults. I never discussed this topic in a hostile manner - I called your conspiracy as well as your evidence "bullshit" but I never personally insulted anyone so far, so why don't you calm down and stop being a prick? The only thing I'm guilty of is having faith in my government, so fuck off.

Lol You call other people's opinion bullshit. And you call that non-hostile. And i am calm. In fact i'm laughing at your stupidity right now. you want me to fuck off now? i thought you want to discuss about this whole thing?

I think your seeing the situation in a very dim light. There were plenty of reasons that the US entered the War in Iraq - and it's not only because of "revenge" for 9/11 or oil. First of all, it wasn't even Iraq that hijacked planes and crashed into the world trade center. The US entered the war under the suspicion that the Iraqi government was funding terrorists and producing weapons of mass destruction. Even if no WMDs were found so far, it was still worth the investigation. Also, establishing a democracy in these dictatorship and terrorist-ridden countries wouldn't be such a bad thing either. I want to know what you mean by the US "killing their own soldiers"

Wouldn't the same thing be said to you as well? You're only seeing it in your right-wing conservative perspective. You can say it's for liberating those islamic country all you like. Eliminating terrorist. Being the hero of the world. But i know for a fact the oil wells in iraq had jumped from 2000 to more than 10000 wells since the invasion. In a mere few years. And on this light. That's not right. Iraq should have their own freedowm to govern their country however fuck they like. How would you like it if US suddenly got invaded by other country and force you guys to be communist because it's for the greater good?

About the tapes - what could possibly be in those tapes that would clear your suspicion anyway? They were taken from a nearby gas station right? That means you won't be able to see anything specific, except some clouds of dust. There could be possibly hundreds of other reasons why the government isn't releasing these videos. For an example - maybe its too shocking to simply be released to the public, maybe as they said, they are investigating other things such as crimes, and ultimately, they simply don't need to - why bother wasting their time releasing this stuff if they don't need to?

Yeah. Too shocking that they'll find out that it's not a plane that hits pentagon. God, that's the only thing it's pointing out to. You even sound like you're in denial right now. I doubt one of the hundred camera surveillance footage confiscated would fail to record the whole thing happening. Plus if there's nothing in it. Then why not show it? there's nothing it could possibly hurt right? It'll clear the government name once and for all. But they can't because the whole tape is evidence that this whole 911 thing is some fake bullshit. And of course they need to. If 911 attack was the reason for their pre-occupation in afghanistan, which leads to another invasion in iraq, then i'd say people have a god damn right to know thoroughly that the reason itself was not a friggin fabricated lie

"Hey let me see the surveillance camera on 9/11 where a plane crashed into a pentagon"
"Why should I?"
"So you can clear my suspicion that you guys are evil"
"Fuck off."

lol that's so stupid that even bush would be ashamed that you're on his side

Oil prices are still very high in the US, so I don't think the war helped much at all, if you think the war was fought over oil.

If Iraq wants to run their own country - of course the US will let them. In fact, that's exactly what we want them to do- run the country themselves. Not some dictator committing various crimes and atrocities, not terrorists- the people of Iraq. If your saying we should never have helped them, then sure, let's leave it to the terrorists and outlaws. Allow Iraq and other middle eastern nations to become a safe haven for terrorists to strike at the US some more.

Whether you like it or not, the government doesn't care what a small group of conspiracy buffs believe. You guys have no power, and no voice. Cry all you want for that footage to be released - but they don't have to. Like I said, there's probably other reasons the government can't release this videos. There's more people living happily and "unaware" (if you want to see it that way), who would rather trust their government and leave the whole thing behind than crying for attention based on some mere coincidences, loose facts, rumors, with no evidence.

"First of all. You dumb prick."
"see you don't even fucking know. you're wasting my time kiddo. why don't you go research around first, then spill your right-wing extremist bullshit then."Yeah that's how calm people talk.

Oil prices are still very high in the US, so I don't think the war helped much at all, if you think the war was fought over oil.

If Iraq wants to run their own country - of course the US will let them. In fact, that's exactly what we want them to do- run the country themselves. Not some dictator committing various crimes and atrocities, not terrorists- the people of Iraq. If your saying we should never have helped them, then sure, let's leave it to the terrorists and outlaws. Allow Iraq and other middle eastern nations to become a safe haven for terrorists to strike at the US some more.

Whether you like it or not, the government doesn't care what a small group of conspiracy buffs believe. You guys have no power, and no voice. Cry all you want for that footage to be released - but they don't have to. Like I said, there's probably other reasons the government can't release this videos. There's more people living happily and "unaware" (if you want to see it that way), who would rather trust their government and leave the whole thing behind than crying for attention based on some mere coincidences, loose facts, rumors, with no evidence.

Shimoko: Excuse me, but first of all...
*I believe the point of that post you're quoting was to point out the flaws in your agrument style by example. <_<;
*Oh, it helped alright. It helped line the pockets of those huge oil companies, that's what.
*All that really did is get the natives pissed off at us, thereby inciting more terrorist acts. Can anyone say "Self-forfilling prophcey"?
*Right...Cause the governmet just 'loves' it's blissfully ignorant and obediant sheep. And as I recall, the American government is supposed to be "for the people and by the people". If the people want an explination for contradictions in their evidence and the government, at least indirectly, tells the people to, "Fuck off!", then something's got to be something wrong with this picture.

All I seek is the truth; a believeable explination for the various contradictions shown about their evidence.

I don't know about everyone else here, but from what I've seen. If events continue their current course, America could become an IRL Brittania. Can anyone say "Area 18"? (Code Geass reference).

I can probably guess that you're trying to be prersuasive, but I not seeing any part of your argument that could convince me that you're 'not' just being a right-wing/conservitate aligned troll.

In before "pot calling the kettle black".
These are just my opinions of the situation, if you don't agree, fine. Just don't start a flamewar over this.

Akurei: But if you really want to...I'll just have to kill you...with fire! (Along with the rest of the human raced)

Wow do you really hate America that much to even pay attention to these things?

It doesn't take hating the United States to consider alternatives to the government's explanations. That kind of talk--questioning patriotism--is nothing more than rhetoric to control people and keep them from looking too far into matters. Besides, the United States is the United States, not the government that runs it, so it is by no means a hostile act against the United States to question the government.

I'm not going to respond to each of your points, since I've heard all of this before and don't even know what to believe anyway. However...

If the government didn't care about killing 3,000 innocent people in the process of fabricating a terrorist act, wtf is stopping them from covering up this conspiracy and killing the idiots spreading the bullshit?

The obvious answer is that killing those people would give credence to their beliefs. Similarly, they would not publicly address these matters because that would spread the ideas even more. Is there an explanation for not killing conspirators and not responding to their views that is not condemning of the government? Certainly. Just be aware that there is an equally good explanation for these things that does condemn the government.