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Indonesian foreign minister seeks answers over spying

PETER LLOYD: By chance today the Indonesian foreign minister is in Perth. Doctor Marty Natalegawa is also asking questions.

He wants an explanation from the Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop.

Naomi Woodley reports.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The recent focus on the United Statesí apparently widespread listening activities has led to the spotlight being put on the work of Australia's espionage community, and as you've heard, the country's biggest neighbour isn't impressed.

MARTY NATALEGAWA: We are obviously deeply concerned and itís something that we cannot accept, like I said the best of describing it is it's not cricket.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Indonesia's foreign minister Marty Natalegawa happens to be in Perth today for a conference of Indian Ocean countries.

He says it's very concerning to read reports that Australia's embassy in Jakarta is used as a listening post for spy agencies, and that the intelligence has been passed on to Australia's allies like the United States.

MARTY NATALEGAWA: Most of all it's about trust isn't it. You know countries may have technical capacities to intercept and to carry out the activities that's been reported and information may have been gathered, but the cost in terms of trust, in terms of the damage that's maybeÖ result in is something that we must all reflect on.

JULIE BISHOP: Indonesia and Australia work cooperatively together on a range of issues, including counter-terrorism, security and intelligence matters. Foreign minister Natalegawa is here today as deputy chair of the IORA - the Indian Ocean Rim Association, that Australia is chairing. Foreign minister Natalegawa and I work constructively together on this and many other matters.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The diplomatic spat has been a topic of discussion at the conference in Perth. India's foreign minister, Salman Khurshid, was unusually frank.

SALMAN KHURSHID: We listen in on each other, the press listens on us, the press listens on everybody.

I think this is the modern times we just need to sit down and see and rework some of the arrangements. The trouble is that quite a bit of this, some people argue, is important for security and strategic reasons.

Some people say this is interference on, with privacy. Some people say if you try to restrict something that is interference with freedom of speech, so I think we've got to find the right balance.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Marty Natalegawa isn't trying to suggest that Indonesia wasn't aware of the possibility of intelligence gathering, or that his country doesn't do the same.

But he is making the most of the publicity surrounding Australia's activity.

MARTY NATALEGAWA: Countries may have certain capacities to gather information in the way that they have - that's one thing. But whether you would want to put that into effect and therefore potentially damaging the kind of trust and confidence that had been nurtured and developed over many decades and years, is something that we may want to ponder.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The Prime Minister Tony Abbott has placed great emphasis on Australia's relationship with Indonesia, describing it as the "most important" in its range of diplomatic ties.

This episode will cause some discomfort, but on one other joint area of interest the Government is claiming more success.

SCOTT MORRISON: For the first time in five years we are now getting the upper hand over the people smugglers.

NAOMI WOODLEY: In his weekly briefing on asylum seeker issues, the Immigration Minister, Scott Morrison, was talking up Australia's cooperation with Indonesia, having just returned from meetings there.

SCOTT MORRISON: Smugglers and their passengers face a combined effort from the governments of Indonesia and Australia to prevent them entering and leaving Indonesia to get to Australia by boat. This cooperation is driven by our mutual respect for Indonesia and Australia's sovereignty, our respective sovereign responsibilities and reducing each otherís burden.

NAOMI WOODLEY: No boats arrived in Australia last week. In earlier briefings the Government has given details of asylum seeker boats being intercepted by Australian authorities, and the passengers being transferred to Indonesian authorities.

But asked if any boats were intercepted and sent back last week, the Commander of Operation Sovereign Borders, Angus Campbell, had this response.

ANGUS CAMPBELL: I won't discuss on-water operations at all.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Scott Morrison says while the Government is pleased at the much slower rate of boat arrivals, it is expecting an increase before the onset of the monsoon season.