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Traditionally speaking these would be great for the drag racers but a cast iron 409 is the real deal, it reflects an era, however change, progress, refinements, upgrades are great and personal choice in a hot rod build keeps us all looking. Thanks to all who take the time, energy, and money to make things like an aluminum 409 available to those who wish to have one.

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Well iron 409's may be more traditional, which I certainly agree with, however; I called a company which will remain nameless a short time ago enquiring on the price of a bare 409 iron block. Well for the sum of $5,000 I could pick one up. Needless to say, I just had to laugh at the fellow.... Then the kicker, the bare 348 block could be had for $4,000.... Prices are way out there as some people believe they are sitting on gold. I am curious what the price will be for the new aluminum 409 block?

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There is a 409 iron block in the works as we speack. No word on prices as yet but I think a lower price than the alluminum. There is 409 used blocks around if you look for 1500 to 2500 bucks. For more info on these go to www.348/409.com

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There is a 409 iron block in the works as we speack. No word on prices as yet but I think a lower price than the alluminum. There is 409 used blocks around if you look for 1500 to 2500 bucks. For more info on these go to www.348/409.com

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Around here, if you look around, you can get a complete engine for that.
Larry T

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Hey Larry T that sounds like a good reason to hang around there. Gotta love Texas. If they bring out a new block cast iton reasonable price then the price of the older ones will come down allso. If you want the proper deck codes like QA blocks then not likely.

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Hey Larry T that sounds like a good reason to hang around there. Gotta love Texas. If they bring out a new block cast iton reasonable price then the price of the older ones will come down allso. If you want the proper deck codes like QA blocks then not likely.

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No, no QA or QB for that unless you really get lucky. But 409's came in lots of different vehicles. Even some farm equipment used them. And they all work for hotrods.
Larry T

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There is a 409 iron block in the works as we speack. No word on prices as yet but I think a lower price than the alluminum. There is 409 used blocks around if you look for 1500 to 2500 bucks. For more info on these go to www.348/409.com

He's planning on putting out iron blocks but mostly aluminum. Here's the progress, some people believe that he will have the first available closest to genuine 409 block. It will accept a 454 crankshaft if I'm not mistaken

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Is this the block that is basically a BBC (crank, timing chain, timing cover, etc.) that uses W style heads?
Larry T

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Yes. It's essentially a BBC that's been modified to match the W-engine's angled deck. Not really a "409" block, IMHO.

If I'm not mistaken, the Bob Walla Racing (BWR) blocks will be visually identical to the OE blocks. I'll be buying one of Bob's blocks before I buy a Walden/World block; just like how I purchased a pair of Bob's heads over a pair of Edelbrock's. Support the little guy who's in it for the love of the engine instead of making $$$.

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Yes. It's essentially a BBC that's been modified to match the W-engine's angled deck. Not really a "409" block, IMHO.

If I'm not mistaken, the Bob Walla Racing (BWR) blocks will be visually identical to the OE blocks. I'll be buying one of Bob's blocks before I buy a Walden/World block; just like how I purchased a pair of Bob's heads over a pair of Edelbrock's. Support the little guy who's in it for the love of the engine instead of making $$$.

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Lamar Walden is the man that is in it for the love of the engine. If you've ever met the man or have seen his operation you'd understand that. He been racing all his life with 409s and knows them inside and out. He is a great guy. I bet a 10 minute converstation about what went into the deisgn of that block would blow you away. I bet he put lots of tricks in there to improve the original design. Every time I am over there he'll tell you a story or teach you something when you go buy the mill machine or one of the blocks he's working on. I love stopping by there.

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Yes. It's essentially a BBC that's been modified to match the W-engine's angled deck. Not really a "409" block, IMHO.

If I'm not mistaken, the Bob Walla Racing (BWR) blocks will be visually identical to the OE blocks. I'll be buying one of Bob's blocks before I buy a Walden/World block; just like how I purchased a pair of Bob's heads over a pair of Edelbrock's. Support the little guy who's in it for the love of the engine instead of making $$$.

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Well, I guess I'll weigh in. Other than Lamar, his son Rob, and possibly Bill Mitchell, I probably know more about these blocks than anyone in the country. Actually, I probably know more than Mitchell because he doesn't know that much about the original blocks and their shortcomings.

I was at Lamar's when he was prototyping the first one on his CNC machine, and I did the story on them that's in Super Chevy (last month or this month... don't know).
Passenger car 409 blocks start at $3,000, and that's a deal. Truck 409 blocks aren't far behind. I have yet to see a complete 409, (truck, passenger car or irrigation pump) for less than $2,000--and the heads, intake and water pump are throw-aways. Lots of blocks are worn out, need sleeves or a really big overbore. Complete 348 are still a dime a dozen... and just like every early Hemi is "a 392," every W-motor is a 409, even if it's not.

All 348/409 blocks have a few weaknesses: run them too hot, or get them too cold, and the block cracks below the deck from the middle of the front cylinder all the way to the middle of the rear cylinder. That area is too thin.
They are also weak between the lifter galleys.
Lamar addressed this, plus he put a thicker deck in it for strength, so the head bolts won't pull out in boosted or sprayed engines.

Pan Rail: It's the same pan rail as a BBC... prices for original 348 and 409 pans got a little silly for a long while. There are repops available, but they're still expensive. And other than a Stef's pan, you're SOL if you want a deep sump, a road race pan, or a pan with kick-outs. In other words, now you can call Milodon or Moroso and get a decent pan, rather than an expensive stock repro or a piece of rusted, dented original shit that needs to be restored.

Timing chain cover: Again, 348/409 covers are unique, and expensive. There are also different covers for the different sized dampers (placement of the timing tab). I don't know if anyone is making reprops of those. Rusted, pitted and dented original, or pay a lot for a nice one. OR now, get any number of modern covers, including finned aluminum.

Water Pump: it's as big a visual cue as the valve covers--Lamar kept it, rather than a BBC pump.

Cams: 348 and 409 have BBC cam length, and SBC cam bearing sizes. It's a unique core. Guess who was the only source in the country for 409 cores? Crane. The supply all but dried up last year--Lamar got the last couple from COMP (incidentally, Lamar was the very first racer to run a Competition Cams sticker and cam in his race car... he goes back with them to the beginning). Lamar has a guy supplying him now, but with BBC cams, the options and supplies are wide open. Also, with a larger cam bearings, you can put higher lift lobes on it. Someone tell me how that's a bad thing?

Lamar didn't give me a price on the blocks, but he's shooting to have them available for about the same money as a prepped iron block can be had...

So for all you "trad" doofs, these blocks weigh less, will support more CI (509 stock, 609 possible), are lighter, are stronger, will use better and more readily available parts, and every one in a race car or hot rod is an iron block that can go back to a resto car. So it's made out of aluminum... big fucking deal. So's that old Tattersfield or Edmunds intake. What about new cast iron Fenton headers? They're repops too, but they get a pass because a magnet sticks to them?
Paint the block if the sight of cast aluminum bothers you.

Incidentally, I've spoken with Bob Walla a couple times. Nice enough guy, but... there's a reason I go to Lamar's.
Lamar's first race car was 409 powered, and he ran a blown/injected '09 in a '33 Willys gasser back in the early '60s. Eventually, he took delivery of the 51st ZL1 '69 Camaro, directly from Vince Piggins, and raced it in Pro Stock. He's been Chevy his whole live, and he's done more with the 409 than anyone on the planet, and he's done more for the 409 than all the other guys out there have TALKED about doing.

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It also occurs to me that the things that make a 409 mechanically unique are the port design and layout, the valve arrangement, and the fact that it's a flat head with the combustion chamber in the block. Visually, the heads, valve covers and water pump are what really sets it apart.
Sneering at the pan rail, timing chain cover, cam journals, etc. is really pretty dumb.

I wonder how these same guys feel about the French flat heads, Donovan hemi blocks or Bob Walker's aluminum hemi heads... after all, they're not the "Trad Triple Nickel" heads.

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I've run into the same kind of thinking on new Harley "Panhead" engines. Some folks think that if you don't use the original stuff it's a fake. That's not really a problem for me unless you're working with an original, numbers matching vehicle. But hey, I've got nothing against aftermarket hot rod bodies (steel or fiberglass) either.
As far as Edelbrock vs. BWR vs. Lamar Walden, in the end they all have to make a profit or they won't be around very long. So do your research, figure out which products work best for your application and get after it!
Larry T