But, do you see? It says nothing of people disappearing at that point. They will be parted. Otherwise, there are two different raptures- one for believers and then one for judgment.

And, Israel will run to the hills.

Those in Jerusalem will indeed flee to into the mountains, mid-trib (Matthew 24:15-16)

But where does it say in the passage I believe you are referring to, the days of Noah reference, that people "disappear"? It says "one shall be taken, and the other left." Matthew 24:37-41

I realize that many believe this is a reference to the rapture, but many of us, here in this thread and others like it, are attempting to demonstrate that it is referring to "those 'taken' in judgment", just like the ones in Noah's day were 'taken' in judgment.

For, in the passage, Matthew 24:37-39, it implies that "they knew not"... because Noah and his family knew, and indeed were shut up into the ark seven days in advance of the rains beginning.

Verse 39, notice, says, "they were eating and drinking..." and it is the same "they" that "knew not" in verse 39 (because they didn't believe). It is "they", the unbelievers, that were "taken" (in judgment). :hat "[they] knew not until the floods came, and took them all away" (they didn't believe, but when it came, "they knew" then... sadly, by experience).

At least, I think that's what you might have been referring to. If not, please clarify. :)

Philippians1:21

June 17th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Now where do you get that from? I see nothing in my Bible about rural and such. It does not say certain areas. It does not say some won't be affected much. ALL will suffer judgment. No one will get away.

Where does it say everyone and every area will dwell in the same level of carnage? It does not. It is obvious in some areas the attrocities will be more intense than others.

The wicked servant in Matthew 24 returns to drinking and proclaims the Lord is delaying his coming... that is enough evidence to show that despite judgement people will carry on regardless.

If we truly appreciate the distinction between Israel and the Church we will understand that Matthew 24 is nothing to do with the Rapture.

acceptedintheBeloved

June 17th, 2009, 05:58 PM

If we truly appreciate the distinction between Israel and the Church we will understand that Matthew 24 is nothing to do with the Rapture.

Agreed! :thumb

rescuedbyChrist

June 17th, 2009, 06:01 PM

So, if we take the Bible literally and it tells us the Restrainer will be removed, then we must think the Holy Spirit is not the Restrainer. The Bible tells us He will be removed. So, who is the Restrainer?

I believe the major outpouring is happening now. I don't believe it is during the Tribulation.

rescuedbyChrist

June 17th, 2009, 06:04 PM

Those in Jerusalem will indeed flee to into the mountains, mid-trib (Matthew 24:15-16)

But where does it say in the passage I believe you are referring to, the days of Noah reference, that people "disappear"? It says "one shall be taken, and the other left." Matthew 24:37-41

I realize that many believe this is a reference to the rapture, but many of us, here in this thread and others like it, are attempting to demonstrate that it is referring to "those 'taken' in judgment", just like the ones in Noah's day were 'taken' in judgment (at His Second Coming).

For, in the passage, Matthew 24:37-39, it implies that "they knew not"... because Noah and his family knew, and indeed were shut up into the ark seven days in advance of the rains beginning.

Verse 39, notice, says, "they were eating and drinking..." and it is the same "they" that "knew not" in verse 39 (because they didn't believe). It is "they", the unbelievers, that were "taken" (in judgment). :hat

At least, I think that's what you might have been referring to. If not, please clarify. :)

Where else does the Bible say that they will be "taken" to judgment? As I understand it, we will all be standing before the Lord and He will separate us and we will see them go to judgment at that time. Where else in the Bible does it indicate this "taken" off and leaving others behind? And, if "taken" doesn't mean disappear then what else does it mean? How are they going to be taken out of bed? It sure does sound like Rapture to me.

acceptedintheBeloved

June 17th, 2009, 06:06 PM

So, if we take the Bible literally and it tells us the Restrainer will be removed, then we must think the Holy Spirit is not the Restrainer. The Bible tells us He will be removed. So, who is the Restrainer?

I believe the major outpouring is happening now. I don't believe it is during the Tribulation.

I do believe that the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit which is presently sealed within the Church. He'll be "taken out of the way" (and us with Him), but this just means His restraining power will be removed... in regards to the revealing of the Antichrist and all of his doings... (but not altogether His power to "come upon" and be "poured out upon" those during the trib.) :hat

rescuedbyChrist

June 17th, 2009, 06:09 PM

My Matthew Henry Commentary does not teach this as taken to judgment but that it is the Rapture. Hal Lindsey teaches it is about the Rapture. I'm going to see what John MacArthur teaches.

Where are you all getting this teaching from?

acceptedintheBeloved

June 17th, 2009, 06:10 PM

Where else does the Bible say that they will be "taken" to judgment? As I understand it, we will all be standing before the Lord and He will separate us and we will see them go to judgment at that time. Where else in the Bible does it indicate this "taken" off and leaving others behind? And, if "taken" doesn't mean disappear then what else does it mean? How are they going to be taken out of bed? It sure does sound like Rapture to me.

Someone else gave the passage in Luke 17:33-37 - a very similar passage, but which ends with "one shall be taken, and the other left. 'Where Lord?' [where taken?] And He said unto them, 'Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.'" If a rapture reference, then it is implying that all those left behind will be dead carcasses.

rescuedbyChrist

June 17th, 2009, 06:10 PM

I do believe that the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit which is presently sealed within the Church. He'll be "taken out of the way" (and us with Him), but this just means His restraining power will be removed... in regards to the revealing of the Antichrist and all of his doings... (but not altogether His power to "come upon" and be "poured out upon" those during the trib.) :hat

It does not say "His power." It says "the Restrainer" will be removed.

katt

June 17th, 2009, 06:12 PM

Where does it say everyone and every area will dwell in the same level of carnage? It does not. It is obvious in some areas the attrocities will be more intense than others.

The wicked servant in Matthew 24 returns to drinking and proclaims the Lord is delaying his coming... that is enough evidence to show that despite judgement people will carry on regardless.

If we truly appreciate the distinction between Israel and the Church we will understand that Matthew 24 is nothing to do with the Rapture.

well each bowl takes out 1/3 of something, vegitation, water, and population (man andd animal), mountains will fall into the sea causing all kinds of havic and the outer Islands will affected..life experience tells us how the Islands will be taken out..the mountians falling into the seas can cause all kinds of senomi's, title waves..then there's the super volcano's in The USA. The Earrthquake falt in California and one not many folks know about..the one on the eastern sea board wich runs straight thru the Piedmont in the Charlotte, Salisbury, Winston Salem area of NC..if thathappens the entire Eastern sea coast will go..the super Volcano in Yellowstone will take out anything the earthquakes on the western/eastern coast don't take out..not to mention the fires, wars (nuklear or otherwise)..and of course the pestulences (manmade or otherwise)..and starvation..and we must remember what Jesus himself said..if those days were not shortened noone would be left alive on the planet..so yes..this will affect the whole earth and it's population..but Jesus also said..but for the elects sake..those days will be shortened..