Just what must be going through Tinsley and his agent's minds. I mean there has literally nothing I've seen or heard out of his camp. This has to be a bizarre time. I would think Tins has to be dumbfounded that his stock in the NBA has dropped to virtually ZERO.

Putnam

10-11-2008, 07:46 PM

Just what must be going through Tinsley and his agent's minds. I mean there has literally nothing I've seen or heard out of his camp. This has to be a bizarre time. I would think Tins has to be dumbfounded that his stock in the NBA has dropped to virtually ZERO.

Do you suppose Latrell Spreewell is one of Tinsley's Five?

count55

10-11-2008, 07:50 PM

Well, I suspect it's something like:

"So, I get the $21.6mm one way or the other, right? The NBA. It's FAAAAAAAN-tastic."

rexnom

10-11-2008, 07:59 PM

Well, I suspect it's something like:

"So, I get the $21.6mm one way or the other, right? The NBA. It's FAAAAAAAN-tastic."
That is what is so amazing about this situation. Tinsley still has a lot of money coming his way. Even if he has spent it all at this point, he still has a cool 20 mil coming his way.

ABADays

10-11-2008, 08:04 PM

Well, I suspect it's something like:

"So, I get the $21.6mm one way or the other, right? The NBA. It's FAAAAAAAN-tastic."

Well - I understand that and that's the saddest part of NBA contracts.

But still, you would think there would be some pride in your belief as a basketball player that you would think WTF?

count55

10-11-2008, 09:08 PM

Well - I understand that and that's the saddest part of NBA contracts.

But still, you would think there would be some pride in your belief as a basketball player that you would think WTF?

My guess is that Tinsley is thinking , "Get me the **** out of here."

His agent is thinking, "If you'd just kept your head on straight and gotten 60-70 games in last year, we'd have a half dozen teams knocking on the door."

Honestly, I would tend to suspect that Tinsley thinks he's been "done wrong" here. What I couldn't tell you is whether that makes him think everything will be OK somewhere else, allowing him to move forward with his career, or whether he's so genuinely unhappy with what he's doing that he just wants to be done with it.

I'm not saying, necessarily, he may think, "I've got my money, don't care about anything else." It's possible that he just isn't happy, period, and may not want to play any more.

Nobody knows but Jamaal.

Roaming Gnome

10-11-2008, 10:46 PM

Well, if basketball isn't fun for Jamaal anymore...

Looks like he will be a Pacer until we buy him out, or his contract is up. Lot easier to sit on the couch to collect the same pay as it is to go thru someones training camp to be a back up/emergency player.

Anthem

10-11-2008, 10:55 PM

Well, if basketball isn't fun for Jamaal anymore...
Wait, what? This is all conjecture. There's nobody actually suggesting that Tinsley is anything but chomping at the bit to get back into the game.

count55

10-11-2008, 11:05 PM

Wait, what? This is all conjecture. There's nobody actually suggesting that Tinsley is anything but chomping at the bit to get back into the game.

Yes...it's conjecture on my part. I apologize if I wasn't clear about that.

(Though, truth be told, I haven't heard anybody suggest one way or another what Jamaal thinks/wants to do.)

JayRedd

10-11-2008, 11:09 PM

Vecsey suggested -- again more conjecture...but from an insider -- that the fact that Jamaal/his agent hadn't put in a grievance about an unwarranted and unofficial suspension could mean that he is just hopeful to get out of Indy as soon as possible and begin his career anew somewhere else. Vecsey also said Tinsley was in great shape.

What is going through Tinsley's mind is that he is set for life, and it doesn't
matter if he even steps foot on a basketball court ever again.

The Pacers are on the hook, and it's strictly the Pacers' problem to figure out
how to get off the hook.

If they don't, or can't, Tinsley could care less because it's not his problem.

One way or another, he ends up laughing all the way to the bank regardless.

Major Cold

10-13-2008, 10:15 AM

I can see a CBA change in the next two years and the GMs using evidence 23a: Jamal Tinsley.

JayRedd

10-13-2008, 12:26 PM

I can see a CBA change in the next two years and the GMs using evidence 23a: Jamal Tinsley.

Ummm...what?

Larry told him to stay home. It's not like he just didn't show up.

Speed

10-13-2008, 12:32 PM

I think you will see the length of contracts reduced or the owners should do that. It will keep you from paying a guy for all those years when the player decides to phone it in and just sit back and cash checks.

And yes, its the teams fault too.

I have always been against players not having guaranteed contracts, but I've changed my mind. I like the way the NFL does it now, much better.

I think if the league can eventually move towards non guaranteed contracts and just big signing bonus's then the game will improve. You won't get these guys who just play hard(est) during contract years.

Eindar

10-13-2008, 11:15 PM

I'm not sure I understand the insinuations being leveled here. Here are the things we know about Tinsley:

1. He goes out late at night too much, particularly in bad parts of town.

2. When he goes out, he tends to get in trouble, likely from flaunting his wealth and status.

3. He gets injured at a higher than normal rate.

4. When he does get injured, he doesn't rehab like he should, so it takes him longer to come back, and he's out of shape, so his game suffers.

These are the only things that you can say we know about Tinsley without a doubt. All this stuff about pot, booze, mailing in games, and, for that matter, claiming an injury when he has none are heresay and, frankly, sour grapes. If Tinsley was the player some of you claim, he'd be in the media right now doing whatever he can to sabotage his trade value so that we can never trade him and thus, he'd never have to play again. Unfortunately, the truth from all who've seen him is that he's in game shape, looking to play for a new team, and he's not said a word to anyone about this situation. You can imagine what Ron Artest's mouth would be doing in this situation. He's also a man who has essentially raised his younger brothers and sisters, and while I disagree with a lot of what he's done, it takes a man to own up to responsiblity like that.

Dece

10-14-2008, 12:57 AM

Tinsley is the devil and represents everything wrong with America today... didn't you know that Eindar? That's what you'd be led to believe by 90% of the PD posters at least. I've come to accept you can't get any sort of rational conversation about Jamaal on this forum.

duke dynamite

10-14-2008, 02:35 AM

Tinsley is the devil and represents everything wrong with America today... didn't you know that Eindar? That's what you'd be led to believe by 90% of the PD posters at least. I've come to accept you can't get any sort of rational conversation about Jamaal on this forum.
Yeah, he had a rough upbringing, and had to do everything he could to help his family make due and survive. Those times have changed and obviously he is not working out with this team. Whether it be the run-ins with the law, or frequent injuries, the fact is that the Pacers are tired of waiting for him to come around. We have put a lot of faith in Tinsely's potential, but there comes a time were you can only do so much. It is time to part ways with Jamaal. We gave him several chances to come up big...he just never delivered.

Wherever he goes, he'll be given another chance. This guy gets too many opportunites, but a fresh start may just what he needs.

I hope that wasn't too negative for you, dece...

OTD

10-14-2008, 03:13 AM

I might be the only one who does uderstad how the players manage to get the guaranteed conract. I do not know any business that give guaranteed contact. The ownere reall got took on this.

RamBo_Lamar

10-14-2008, 05:04 AM

Tinsley is the devil and represents everything wrong with America today... didn't you know that Eindar? That's what you'd be led to believe by 90% of the PD posters at least. I've come to accept you can't get any sort of rational conversation about Jamaal on this forum.

:bs2:

What Tinsley represent is alot that is wrong with the CBA.

A system that allows highly paid athletes to get away with rendering
themselves as "damaged goods", untradeable, and the team still being
on the hook for their paycheck while getting nothing in return but
lack of finacial flexibility, pissed off fans, and headaches.

Tins did some good things and played well for us for a while. He earned
his paycheck. But he is not earning it now, and has proven repeatedly
that he cannot be relied upon to do what this team needs of him.

This hurts the team, and keeps money out of the pockets of the athletes
that are deserving. And what hurts the team ultimately hurts the fans;
particularly the ticket buying fans.

Call it sour grapes if you want, but it would certainly seem your priorities
are with Tinsley before they are with the good of the Pacers franchise.

Dece

10-14-2008, 06:02 AM

Hey, I'm not saying Jamaal is perfect Duke. The guy is clearly no longer welcome to be a Pacer, and that is quite alright. From Eindar:

1. He goes out late at night too much, particularly in bad parts of town.

2. When he goes out, he tends to get in trouble, likely from flaunting his wealth and status.

3. He gets injured at a higher than normal rate.

4. When he does get injured, he doesn't rehab like he should, so it takes him longer to come back, and he's out of shape, so his game suffers.

These are all entirely fair criticisms. The problem I have is when people on this board start saying he's a bad person. Really? Moving your entire family out of the ghetto by staying clean and focusing on basketball, that's not something a bad person does. That's not what someone with a drug and alcohol problem does, and yet implications that he's sitting at home drinking, smoking a jay, and eating Cheetos are what we see in this thread. Personally, it's hilarious to see people who consider themselves to have class trash him with this baseless crap.

I have no problem admitting Jamaal has some issues that make him no longer able to be a Pacer, but I have a hundred problems with people(a too nice term, but one I would use would likely get me banned) comparing him to Latrell Sprewell, calling him lazy, saying he has no pride, saying he has no love for basketball - the very game loved so much that he escaped the ghetto and used to free his family of the ghetto, and calling him a drug user. Really, what kind of proof does anyone have for any of this? It's baseless, accusatory, INFLAMMATORY crap that really doesn't belong on what I thought was supposed to be a quality web forum. Tinsley has become such the whipping boy here it's a JOKE.

So yea, remember kids, if you go to what has been proven to be a pretty quality club with the athletic trainer of the Pacers and leave only to be followed and shot at by a lunatic with an AK47... you clearly are the one at fault, and you should be persecuted as such. I mean... the level of scapegoat you guys have turned Jamaal into is just beyond absurd.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm just adding myself to some ignores at this point, but yea Duke, that's pretty much what I believe about the "fairness" of what gets said on this forum at times.

Dece

10-14-2008, 06:07 AM

To say Tinsley is not earning his paycheck... he's in game shape ready to play. The Pacers organization told him to stay home. This isn't some guy refusing to report, he is ready. He is willing. He was told he wasn't wanted.

What part of him not earning his paycheck is his fault? I admit he has been injury prone - I'm quite sure he never chose to be injured. I mean, I just don't think he had a desire to go down with injury, prove me wrong. He hasn't done anything to invalidate his contract, and if he had, the Pacers org. would invalidate it. You want to blame him because Walsh signed him before his injuries started happening? That's simply not his fault, and this is not a fair criticism.

pacerfreak

10-14-2008, 08:19 AM

It isn't really whether or not JT is a good guy or not. I really wish him well wherever, (if anywhere), he goes.

The contracts these guys get, multi million $, always gets me fired up.
In JT's case; paid for not working...millions! Yes I know not by his choice (I think). Our ticket prices, because of this, keep families like mine away from games that I would love to attend frequently. I would go to games whether or not they winning.....I've watched them since 1970, at a very cool age of 7.

OK. I'm done ranting:-p

'Freak...out.

RamBo_Lamar

10-14-2008, 09:08 AM

He made the choices to repeatedly partake in off-court foolishness which is
why not only the Pacers, but it seems just about every other team in the
NBA wants to steer clear of him to avoid having him cast them in a bad light
as well.

The injuries (or "sinupoutitis") are minor issues by comparison.

RamBo_Lamar

10-14-2008, 09:10 AM

Something else I'm wondering about:

Who was it that originally coined the term "Sinupoutitis" anyway?

Hicks

10-14-2008, 12:40 PM

I think that was bulletproof/Harmonica

McKeyFan

10-14-2008, 12:52 PM

I am less concerned about Tinsley's off court than his on court performance, which I have been criticizing for four years.

His unreliable shot and his one/two man at the most offensive tendencies ultimately hurt the Pacers when it really counts in the crunch during playoffs.

This can be traceable to character--not practicing your shot, not wanting to pass unless it leads to an assist--so the offcourt stuff is tangentially related.

In my opinion, the Pacer fans are lucky for the offcourt stuff to emerge, otherwise we would have been stuck with him for his entire career.

HC

10-14-2008, 12:54 PM

Hey, I'm not saying Jamaal is perfect Duke. The guy is clearly no longer welcome to be a Pacer, and that is quite alright. From Eindar:

1. He goes out late at night too much, particularly in bad parts of town.

2. When he goes out, he tends to get in trouble, likely from flaunting his wealth and status.

3. He gets injured at a higher than normal rate.

4. When he does get injured, he doesn't rehab like he should, so it takes him longer to come back, and he's out of shape, so his game suffers.

These are all entirely fair criticisms. The problem I have is when people on this board start saying he's a bad person. Really? Moving your entire family out of the ghetto by staying clean and focusing on basketball, that's not something a bad person does. That's not what someone with a drug and alcohol problem does, and yet implications that he's sitting at home drinking, smoking a jay, and eating Cheetos are what we see in this thread. Personally, it's hilarious to see people who consider themselves to have class trash him with this baseless crap.

I have no problem admitting Jamaal has some issues that make him no longer able to be a Pacer, but I have a hundred problems with people(a too nice term, but one I would use would likely get me banned) comparing him to Latrell Sprewell, calling him lazy, saying he has no pride, saying he has no love for basketball - the very game loved so much that he escaped the ghetto and used to free his family of the ghetto, and calling him a drug user. Really, what kind of proof does anyone have for any of this? It's baseless, accusatory, INFLAMMATORY crap that really doesn't belong on what I thought was supposed to be a quality web forum. Tinsley has become such the whipping boy here it's a JOKE.

So yea, remember kids, if you go to what has been proven to be a pretty quality club with the athletic trainer of the Pacers and leave only to be followed and shot at by a lunatic with an AK47... you clearly are the one at fault, and you should be persecuted as such. I mean... the level of scapegoat you guys have turned Jamaal into is just beyond absurd.

Anyway, I'm sure I'm just adding myself to some ignores at this point, but yea Duke, that's pretty much what I believe about the "fairness" of what gets said on this forum at times.

There was a point in time where this teams success hinged on Jamaal Tinsley's success. This is obviously no longer the case, and he didn't care when it was. Why should we care about him now? He only compounded the problems that the Pacers were having while making problems for himself. I don't think anyone is going to sympathize with you on this one. JT is responsible for himself, and in the business that is pro sports when you do the kinds of things JT was doing you open yourself up to public criticism.

Dece

10-14-2008, 01:27 PM

I'm not asking you to care about him, I'm asking you to not make baseless derogatory remarks about him. There is plenty you can legitimately criticize, it's there, criticize THAT, don't make absurd negative claims with no proof. I just don't feel like that is too much to ask.

ABADays

10-14-2008, 01:57 PM

Tinsley has represented this franchise about as poorly as any other player in its history. Telling him to stay home was the kindest of gestures.

Jonathan

10-14-2008, 01:59 PM

Tinsley does not go out and look for trouble at all. If he saw anybody on Pacers Digest he would not bother us. He is not instigating the trouble at all.
1. Club Rio
Fingerz wanted to buy Tinsley drinks and Tinsley denied him.
2. 8 Seconds Salloon
We do not know the whole story but the situation was swept under the rug. The owners who he fought with wanted it dropped. Alcohol 50/50.
3. Club Rio
He gets shot at. It was not like he was pulling a Kenton Keith. He did not ride out with his entourage when they shot back.

Trouble seems to find him. He needs to realize this and change. His major problem is This:
He has a bad attitude.

HC

10-14-2008, 02:13 PM

Tinsley does not go out and look for trouble at all. If he saw anybody on Pacers Digest he would not bother us. He is not instigating the trouble at all.
1. Club Rio
Fingerz wanted to buy Tinsley drinks and Tinsley denied him.
2. 8 Seconds Salloon
We do not know the whole story but the situation was swept under the rug. The owners who he fought with wanted it dropped. Alcohol 50/50.
3. Club Rio
He gets shot at. It was not like he was pulling a Kenton Keith. He did not ride out with his entourage when they shot back.

Trouble seems to find him. He needs to realize this and change. His major problem is This:
He has a bad attitude.

bad attitude and bad work ethic (it would appear)

Dr. Goldfoot

10-14-2008, 02:35 PM

Is this really a subject worth getting worked up over anymore?

This will work itself out. I just hope that we as Pacer fans can move on from this absurd negativity towards so many of our own players. Is this gonna carry on to Daniels next? Should I prepare myself for scathing remarks about Ford if his injuries continue and his shot remains poor? Will Granger become a bum if he doesn't blossom into the next Reggie? What about Dunleavy when his production reverts to his actual talent level? What becomes of Rasho when you realize he's more Pollard than Sabonis? The fact that Rush has facial similarities to Pierce doesn't translate to play on the court. A handful of non-disaster preseason games for Hibbert does not translate to next Hakeem.

I'm not suggesting a dislike for those players mentioned but bringing to light a complete unrealistic set of expectations from so many on this board. Will these expectations force me to sift thru this trite crap all over again?

This is really a response to about 4 years worth of condemnation towards roughly a dozen players on this board not just this particular Tinsley thread......so no need for the he brought this upon himself etc.... the Tinsley era is over.......who gets the "He brought this upon himself" treatment next?

It's Marquis Daniels isn't it? Diener is my longshot choice for now.

HC

10-14-2008, 03:07 PM

Is this really a subject worth getting worked up over anymore?

This will work itself out. I just hope that we as Pacer fans can move on from this absurd negativity towards so many of our own players. Is this gonna carry on to Daniels next? Should I prepare myself for scathing remarks about Ford if his injuries continue and his shot remains poor? Will Granger become a bum if he doesn't blossom into the next Reggie? What about Dunleavy when his production reverts to his actual talent level? What becomes of Rasho when you realize he's more Pollard than Sabonis? The fact that Rush has facial similarities to Pierce doesn't translate to play on the court. A handful of non-disaster preseason games for Hibbert does not translate to next Hakeem.

I'm not suggesting a dislike for those players mentioned but bringing to light a complete unrealistic set of expectations from so many on this board. Will these expectations force me to sift thru this trite crap all over again?

This is really a response to about 4 years worth of condemnation towards roughly a dozen players on this board not just this particular Tinsley thread......so no need for the he brought this upon himself etc.... the Tinsley era is over.......who gets the "He brought this upon himself" treatment next?

It's Marquis Daniels isn't it? Diener is my longshot choice for now.

The next player that brings it upon himself.

Major Cold

10-14-2008, 03:13 PM

Ummm...what?

Larry told him to stay home. It's not like he just didn't show up.

Is the team not tied down to a guy who is unproductive during the offseason?

Is the team not forced to pay a guy who is often injured and for "minor" injuries?

Is the team not forced to pay a guy who's conduct is detremental to the team and their sponsorship situation?

Anthem

10-14-2008, 03:43 PM

Is the team not tied down to a guy who is unproductive during the offseason?
Jamaal does work in the offseason. He's consistently worked well in the offseason. Every year he comes to camp and people say "Wow Jamaal really looks good... dude is in shape."

Jamaal's problem is not the offseason.

Eindar

10-14-2008, 04:42 PM

Is the team not tied down to a guy who is unproductive during the offseason?

Is the team not forced to pay a guy who is often injured and for "minor" injuries?

Is the team not forced to pay a guy who's conduct is detremental to the team and their sponsorship situation?

explain "minor", and your qualifications or sources to say that they are anything but legitimate injuries. He has missed games due to injury late in the season all the way back to that first playoff series vs. New Jersey, so you can't say that he got his contract and then started slacking off. So, really, your choices are to blame the Pacers or blame the CBA.

For the third item, again, blame the CBA. It's not Jamaal's fault that the salaries are structured the way they are. On any other non-brawl team, the things Jamaal has been involved with would be no big deal, or possibly, Jamaal would be seen as a victim.

I can't believe that Tinsely rehabbed his injuries the way he was suppose to. And if Tinsley had such a great off season workout how come it can be argued that his skills diminished rather than improve?

I can't imagine why he missed so much last season. And for what?

And Eindar I blame both. I blame all the NBA players who recieve money and then ride it out. Maybe Tinsley is not the worse (thus I said evidence 23a). But you place Tins in any other occupation and his conduct and progress would be unacceptable.

Slick Pinkham

10-14-2008, 10:30 PM

Here are the things we know about Tinsley:

1. He goes out late at night too much, particularly in bad parts of town.

2. When he goes out, he tends to get in trouble, likely from flaunting his wealth and status.

3. He gets injured at a higher than normal rate.

4. When he does get injured, he doesn't rehab like he should, so it takes him longer to come back, and he's out of shape, so his game suffers.

You forget being kicked out of practice and suspended, by a cushy-soft coach who was tolerant of everything (yes, Rick), for conduct deterimental to the team.

In cases like this, the ratio of publicly known incidents to internal incidents that never saw the light of day in the media because no police had to be involved or no actual suspensions occurred is likely about 10:1. That seems to be what it was with Ron-Ron.

Even if it is 1:1, does that get him a free pass?

Nobody ever explained the conduct deterimental. There have been instances, however, when even ON COURT DURING A GAME his sobriety has seemed uncertain, to the eye of this viewer.

A guy screws up, give him the benefit of a doubt.
Again? Well, maybe a little more...
#3...#4...#5...

When exactly does it stop? When do you ask one of your most veteran players to conduct himself like you ask the rookies to do?

Roaming Gnome

10-15-2008, 06:47 AM

I'm not asking you to care about him, I'm asking you to not make baseless derogatory remarks about him. There is plenty you can legitimately criticize, it's there, criticize THAT, don't make absurd negative claims with no proof. I just don't feel like that is too much to ask.

I actually agree with this stance 100%, but I expect opinions to be "extreme" and facts to be miscontrued when it comes to someone that is not popular amoung the collective on a sports message board. Is it right? NO, it's not, but is it expected....Well, yes it is.

I don't agree with a lot of the anger that is directed at Jamaal from the fan base, but I do understand why the team pretty much decided to do what they've done with telling Jamaal to stay home. From a basketball standpoint, the guy was too injury prone to depend on, he didn't provide what the coaching staff wanted, and his attitude as a teammate was questioned. When you add to it, the "perception" of him towards a fleeting fanbase. It's pretty easy to see the team asking him to stay away.

As for Jamaal himself, maybe he doesn't want to be a Pacer anymore. Seriously, he seen the "grief" Sjax went thru his last half season here. He watched J.O. get ripped off his pedistal. He know's his popularity amoung the fan base. Why fight getting paid to train and get in the best shape of your career just to come back and play for a team and fans that dont want you. I think the team has convinced him and his agent that it would be benificial for Tinsley to stay away and be ready for a trade.

Staying home does come at a cost to Jamaal. Yeah, from our standpoint it is hard to overlook the fact that he is being paid to sit and wait, but the longer he sits and waits..... The less chance he has to showcase himself to other teams. Endangering his livlihood in the league. We as fans can say that he brought it upon himself, but I don't think the lawyers involved will share the same sentiment. I feel this will be an issue between the Pacers and the Players Union if Jamaal isn't dealt or "released" (bought out) by next offseason.

Speed

10-15-2008, 07:41 AM

Jamaal has pissed away the potential talent to be one of the best Point Guards in the league. He has either pouted or been selfish 90% of the time he's been on the court in his career. The off court stuff for me is just salt in the wound.

I like to blame him because he's been such a disappointment. Unrealized effectiveness of epic proportions based on his head, not his ability.

He should have been a starting PG on a team vying for a championship, instead he's a guy who shows such immaturity and has such a chip on his shoulder that he can't be coached, accept responsibility, take criticism, show up on time. I can go on, but won't.

I know as a fan, I feel he's a big reason why they've fallen so far. I can't give him a pass or even water down that opinion just because he seems like a nice guy to his family, from my perspective. He has been a big part of the problem for a long time.

I've said it before, I think the fans cared more about him doing well than he did. He more cared about respect, but he has to realize you have to earn respect through actions, not just have it handed to you.

I think 6 years is enough.

I still think and hope for his sake he looks back on his career and says wow, I really wasted alot of my career not being responsible to the team, management, fans, and myself. I hope he thinks this at some point because it will make him a better person.

With all of this said, maybe it's just not that important to him and he is a great person. In that case, then I guess it's still sad that the team's commitment to him financially wasn't mutual by Jamaal's actions.

Justin Tyme

10-15-2008, 08:57 AM

I feel this will be an issue between the Pacers and the Players Union if Jamaal isn't dealt or "released" (bought out) by next offseason.

Only if Tinsley raises the issue. I'm just not convinced Tinsley isn't the type that as long as he's getting his 21 mil he really gives a care. I just don't see the fire in Tinsley to play BB anymore. JMOAA

Anthem

10-15-2008, 10:50 AM

Only if Tinsley raises the issue. I'm just not convinced Tinsley isn't the type that as long as he's getting his 21 mil he really gives a care. I just don't see the fire in Tinsley to play BB anymore. JMOAA
Any more? You saw it in April, but not now in October?

Roaming Gnome

10-15-2008, 11:02 AM

Only if Tinsley raises the issue. I'm just not convinced Tinsley isn't the type that as long as he's getting his 21 mil he really gives a care. I just don't see the fire in Tinsley to play BB anymore. JMOAA

Thanks for clearing that up because that is what I ment. If Jamaal raised the issue then I could see the Pacers dealing with the Players Union. I just believe that Jamaal was more then likely promised to be moved in a time frame he found acceptible. IMHO, I'm guessing Jamaal isn't done wanting to play in the NBA.

Justin Tyme

10-15-2008, 02:09 PM

Thanks for clearing that up because that is what I ment. If Jamaal raised the issue then I could see the Pacers dealing with the Players Union. I just believe that Jamaal was more then likely promised to be moved in a time frame he found acceptible. IMHO, I'm guessing Jamaal isn't done wanting to play in the NBA.

IF I was in Tinsley's situation and still had the desire/fire to play, I'd be on the phone every other day to Bird preesing him to get a trade done ASAP. I just feel that Tinsley doesn't care... he has 21 mil in salary coming. JMOAA

Anthem

10-15-2008, 02:33 PM

IF I was in Tinsley's situation and still had the desire/fire to play, I'd be on the phone every other day to Bird preesing him to get a trade done ASAP.
You have no idea what Tinsley is or isn't doing.

The fact that he's staying quiet is a GOOD thing, not a bad one.

ChicagoJ

10-16-2008, 02:33 PM

-snip-I have no problem admitting Jamaal has some issues that make him no longer able to be a Pacer, but I have a hundred problems with people(a too nice term, but one I would use would likely get me banned) comparing him to Latrell Sprewell, calling him lazy, saying he has no pride, saying he has no love for basketball - the very game loved so much that he escaped the ghetto and used to free his family of the ghetto, and calling him a drug user. Really, what kind of proof does anyone have for any of this? It's baseless, accusatory, INFLAMMATORY crap that really doesn't belong on what I thought was supposed to be a quality web forum. Tinsley has become such the whipping boy here it's a JOKE.

I agree entirely. But I no longer care enough to put much of up a fight in front of the lynch-mob mentality that has taken over the board in regards to JO and Tinsley.

Just because some people got burned supporting Ron and SJax doesn't mean that every player that gets an injury or has a chip on his shoulder is automatically deserving of a death-row treatment.

Since this is a " Has anybody wandered " thread .... what's up with Hoopshype hatin on the Pacers. They have us as 0-4, they printed the score wrong against Minnesota. Even though we won against Dallas they still gave us another loss. This has to be on purpose.

Since86

10-16-2008, 05:01 PM

Dece, have you ever considered the notion that people label him as a drug user to the fact DRUGS WERE FOUND IN HIS CAR?

Okay, the argument turns into "But someone else took responsibility for it.'

My question is, if you don't smoke pot why in the hell would you let someone else smoke in your car, stash it in your car, drive them to buy it in your car, or to simplify it, even have it in your car?

That's like having a kid get busted with a playboy under his mattress but he tries to convince his parents that it is his friends, and he (the child) doesn't look at it. Are we really that niave?

We that criticize Jamaal haven't fabricated things up to bash him with. He has provided us with everthing we use against him. Because of league rules, he may very well have tested positive for drugs twice already.

I will give him credit though, atleast he isn't Josh Howard dumb and just came out and admitted it.

ABADays

10-16-2008, 05:29 PM

Is this really a subject worth getting worked up over anymore?

This will work itself out. I just hope that we as Pacer fans can move on from this absurd negativity towards so many of our own players. Is this gonna carry on to Daniels next? Should I prepare myself for scathing remarks about Ford if his injuries continue and his shot remains poor? Will Granger become a bum if he doesn't blossom into the next Reggie? What about Dunleavy when his production reverts to his actual talent level? What becomes of Rasho when you realize he's more Pollard than Sabonis? The fact that Rush has facial similarities to Pierce doesn't translate to play on the court. A handful of non-disaster preseason games for Hibbert does not translate to next Hakeem.

I'm not suggesting a dislike for those players mentioned but bringing to light a complete unrealistic set of expectations from so many on this board. Will these expectations force me to sift thru this trite crap all over again?

This is really a response to about 4 years worth of condemnation towards roughly a dozen players on this board not just this particular Tinsley thread......so no need for the he brought this upon himself etc.... the Tinsley era is over.......who gets the "He brought this upon himself" treatment next?

It's Marquis Daniels isn't it? Diener is my longshot choice for now.

I think you are missing a huge point here. The fans don't want to "hate" or dislike the players - it's quite the opposite. They want to embrace the team - pull for them. Continued off court activities alienated those fans. Read the articles from the ABA players during the coverage of the Coliseum pre-season game. They talked about the intimacy between the players and fans during the ABA era. Back then, Indianapolis was heaven for players in the league. The franchise represented the best of the best. This wasn't BS - I was there, I know. I want that back again.