Yeah screw those idiots trying to find their assigned seating, they should instead just hang around wherever they find space and if possible jibe in and fight people if that claim they are in their seats.

Nothing about grandeur. Since I've been going I've never stood in my assigned seat. Nobody has ever asked me to move from the seat I've been in. You just go to wherever you want and watch the game. I have rarely seen any people actually looking for their assigned seats.

There should be no day trippers at away matches. Away tickets should all go to season ticket holders without exception. Not people with deep pockets who are there to take selfies for Instagram and record the game onto their phones. They add nothing to the atmosphere. Old Trafford is full of people like this. That is why the atmosphere is shameful for a stadium that holds 75k+

I don't think I'm better, just that they should not be there.

Click to expand...

Well it seems like you do think you're better because you think you should be there and they shouldn't.

Without meaning to derail the thread, daytrippers already have Old Trafford available to them for their kicks.

The only real atmosphere we have to cling to any more are the away matches, and by the way, United are widely acknowledged to have the best and loudest away support in the country. Therefore, it is galling to see these types, who generally gawp at the atmosphere through their phones rather than contribute to it, get their hands on tickets ahead of season ticket holders who have been patiently waiting for the privilege to even apply to away games through genuine means. They are actively damaging the atmosphere and taking away one of the key defining traits of the club.

Of course, this is a generalisation, not everyone is like this, and there are some daytrippers (possibly from abroad and desperate to experience an away game) who 'get it' and do contribute to the atmosphere, but these are the exception rather than the norm, and even then, the point still stands, why should they get tickets ahead of a genuine season ticket holder who is supporting the team week-in week-out? Because they can afford to pay a tout £300 for one game?

Click to expand...

Simple supply and demand market works the same all over the world apart from in the UK because of the hooligan problem which wasn't even that much of a problem by the time the ban on ticket resale came in. No one complains about the atmosphere at Bayern or Dortmund etc. and their tickets are re-sold freely.

The day trippers would very much support the team week in week out given the chance. You can't deny the commitment of someone who pays the cost of a season ticket for one match. Arguably day trippers with their head to toe United kit do more to support the club at least financially than a few people who go have a few beers and a sing song.

Manchester United are not the exclusivity of anyone, match goers, especially away going ones need to come off their high horses.

Well it seems like you do think you're better because you think you should be there and they shouldn't.

Simple supply and demand market works the same all over the world apart from in the UK because of the hooligan problem which wasn't even that much of a problem by the time the ban on ticket resale came in. No one complains about the atmosphere at Bayern or Dortmund etc. and their tickets are re-sold freely.

The day trippers would very much support the team week in week out given the chance. You can't deny the commitment of someone who pays the cost of a season ticket for one match. Arguably day trippers with their head to toe United kit do more to support the club at least financially than a few people who go have a few beers and a sing song.

Manchester United are not the exclusivity of anyone, match goers, especially away going ones need to come off their high horses.

Click to expand...

Have you been to an away match? My point particularly references the impact on atmosphere and how best to allocate limited away tickets, I have not questioned anyone's right to support the team and / or commitment. Obviously if you're dropping huge money you're committed / love the club.

Let me put it this way - there are 2,500ish away tickets available, and we could probably fill it 10 times over with the demand - you tell me, what is the fairest way of allocating these tickets? The club have had to face this issue for years and at the moment the current system that they decided was fairest was: you have to be a season ticket holder for a minimum of 3 years before even getting a chance to apply for an away ticket, then in your 4th season, after making sure you have paid for all the home cup games as well, it is down to luck of the draw and you're lucky if you get more than 2 or 3 aways a season.

Forgive me for thinking that person should in general be prioritised over a daytripper who can simply bypass that system and can afford to spend hundreds on one particular away game for what are extremely limited tickets when you account for demand (and touts are the real culprit here). Moreover, as I alluded to in my post, part of the reason for the massive demand for away games is the incredible atmosphere - but there won't be much point if the majority of attendees are there to observe the atmosphere rather than create it (which is generally, but not always, the case with daytrippers), because then you'll end up with a lack of that atmosphere in the first place, which is exactly what happened at Spurs (and as an aside, the fact we were so poor in the game / conceded early doesn't excuse the lack of atmosphere, I distinctly remember at Stamford Bridge last season where our fans embarrassed Chelsea's with incessant singing while losing 4-0...)

Have you been to an away match? My point particularly references the impact on atmosphere and how best to allocate limited away tickets, I have not questioned anyone's right to support the team and / or commitment. Obviously if you're dropping huge money you're committed / love the club.

Let me put it this way - there are 2,500ish away tickets available, and we could probably fill it 10 times over with the demand - you tell me, what is the fairest way of allocating these tickets? The club have had to face this issue for years and at the moment the current system that they decided was fairest was: you have to be a season ticket holder for a minimum of 3 years before even getting a chance to apply for an away ticket, then in your 4th season, after making sure you have paid for all the home cup games as well, it is down to luck of the draw and you're lucky if you get more than 2 or 3 aways a season.

Forgive me for thinking that person should in general be prioritised over a daytripper who can simply bypass that system and can afford to spend hundreds on one particular away game for what are extremely limited tickets when you account for demand (and touts are the real culprit here). Moreover, as I alluded to in my post, part of the reason for the massive demand for away games is the incredible atmosphere - but there won't be much point if the majority of attendees are there to observe the atmosphere rather than create it (which is generally, but not always, the case with daytrippers), because then you'll end up with a lack of that atmosphere in the first place, which is exactly what happened at Spurs (and as an aside, the fact we were so poor in the game / conceded early doesn't excuse the lack of atmosphere, I distinctly remember at Stamford Bridge last season where our fans embarrassed Chelsea's with incessant singing while losing 4-0...)

Click to expand...

Considering the demand, scrap the loyalty pot. Its the biggest tout central ever. Ballot 75% to ST holders and execs, with the other 20% to members of 2-3 seasons attending x amount of games and 5% to everybody else. If you are successful in a ballot you don’t get another chance for x amount of games. That’ll give the best possible distribution and inclusivity.

And as an FYI there are probably more day trippers at Chelsea than at Spurs but the reason why Wembley atmosphere is generally rubbish, is because it is too big, open and disconnected so the atmosphere gets drowned out. We had same gripes when we played the Champions League final there or EFL and FA Cup.

The occasion is not there anymore this is why the atmosphere is suffering. The last great atmosphere we had was probably against Leeds in the FA Cup many seasons ago.

I was on a plane with a Hammers supporter recently, sound bloke, he said thr Hammers have a points system for how they award away tickets. If you go to x number of home games you build up points and can then be eligible for away tickets. If youre going to away games you get x points, so as long as you continue to go to away games regularly you can get tickets. I wiuld have thought it was the same for United. Very surprised day trippers would manage to get away tickets, unless someone thats had them awarded has sold them on to mates or something.

I was a day tripper myself when I was still at home and I see nothing wrong with regular match going fans / season ticket holders getting away tickets first, thats how it shoulf be. If you are a day tripper go and sit in the home section. I nearly bought tickets to that spurs game too but there was only nosebleed seats left. Double whammy, nosebleed and stuck with spurs fans, so I passed them up.

Considering the demand, scrap the loyalty pot. Its the biggest tout central ever. Ballot 75% to ST holders and execs, with the other 20% to members of 2-3 seasons attending x amount of games and 5% to everybody else. If you are successful in a ballot you don’t get another chance for x amount of games. That’ll give the best possible distribution and inclusivity.

And as an FYI there are probably more day trippers at Chelsea than at Spurs but the reason why Wembley atmosphere is generally rubbish, is because it is too big, open and disconnected so the atmosphere gets drowned out. We had same gripes when we played the Champions League final there or EFL and FA Cup.

The occasion is not there anymore this is why the atmosphere is suffering. The last great atmosphere we had was probably against Leeds in the FA Cup many seasons ago.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, if you feel that strongly go ahead and propose that to the club. There are some points that I agree with you on, it's a nuanced discussion to be had. First and foremost, the touts are the biggest culprits of all, they create the problem - but people buying from them encourages the market for this as well. What you're discussing here is a redistribution, which if it goes through, fine. But my original point was it's unfair on those faithfully following the rules of the system, and the ensuing impact it has on atmosphere, and why it's important to protect that.

With regards to Chelsea / Spurs, you're right London aways will always have a higher element of tourism within the away end. And on the Wembley point, yes it's one of those stadiums that is not conducive to a good atmosphere, I agree BUT having been to Wembley this time around I know what I saw with my own eyes - the worst away end I've ever experienced, with the highest number of visibly obvious tourists, and I doubt those two things are a coincidence. Other teams in the league have been to Wembley this season and managed to create an atmosphere so it was embarrassing for a club trying to uphold its reputation as having the best away support.

I disagree regarding why atmosphere has gone down, I truly believe it's due to the touting problem. We've had plenty of great away ends, and they tend to be at more inconvenient locations / times which attract more of the core element - this season alone I can think of Leicester, Swansea in the cup, Anfield, West Brom to name a few, not to mention Derby away in the FA Cup a couple of years back, Blackburn away last season etc etc. It's a huge stretch to say we haven't had a good away end since 2011 (and as you well know, Leeds away is a very special case which will always have a fiery atmosphere. Certainly the average tourist would struggle to get their hands on a ticket - those two factors are again linked - if they even wanted one in the first place given all the trouble that comes with Leeds)