- Because less government means less intrusion into our private lives.

The usa is one big government upper and lower house they cheat-lie- by every election I call it the evil empire.
The usa is the most controlled country I know rules rules rules and pay pay and pay.
They asked for everything money not one person will do it from the hearth always MONEY sick sick sick
Money is the worst thing you can have on this planet it gives you power over others.

They can't see how having a mix of socialism will keep the mega corps from becoming what they fear the most. Control, power and enslavement.

edit: this bit I agreed to
"Communism and socialism have failed historically, I agrre with the communism but socialism has NEVER failed here in the Netherlands everybody has
enough for everyone and it will allways be that way. Capitolism like in the USA is very Baaaaaaaaaaaaad only the rich people are in control they
decided who lives or die.
Very very very bad system. I can't wait when it all crumbles in the states it allready has begun. "

This thread is really kind of sad. I do understand what Socialism and Communisim are. I am and American, and i am in my thirties.

I also know that most people my age follow world politics very closely. We see the damage that wide sweeping social programs have caused to
individual countries and to the world as a whole. It can be seen here in America with the bankrupt Social Security and Medicare.

The reason that people hate these ideals is not that they are bad ideals. As a matter of fact the ideals of everyone living in harmony and there is
no poor or rich is beautiful. I would also love to see everyone in the world have free access to health care. The only problem is, the ideal is
fundamentally flawed. The fact is, it takes people in power to run these organizations, and anywhere there is power there is corruption.

Another proble is who is going to pay for these programs. Not the poor that you are trying to help. Also, why should I work if I get no more than
the person that doesn't work. In that situation, more and more people see this and abadon the challenges of day to day life and accept the free hand
out.

Why look for a better job, why strive to be better, everything I need is already provided. Failure is an incentive whether you like it or not. The
ultimate failure is death.

I want to make it clear that I am not talking about people that do not have the ability to care for themselves. These type of people need help from
our society and that is acceptable. I am talking about the majority of people who can work, and probably can do more than they currently are.

edit on 2-12-2010 by russ212 because: Spelling and grammer errors, as well as cleaning up the post a little

They can't see how having a mix of socialism will keep the mega corps from becoming what they fear the most. Control, power and enslavement.

edit: this bit I agreed to
"Communism and socialism have failed historically, I agrre with the communism but socialism has NEVER failed here in the Netherlands everybody has
enough for everyone and it will allways be that way. Capitolism like in the USA is very Baaaaaaaaaaaaad only the rich people are in control they
decided who lives or die.
Very very very bad system. I can't wait when it all crumbles in the states it allready has begun. "

I however don't want to see the US crash.

edit on 2-12-2010 by JonoEnglish because: (no reason given)

Socialism is very much like communism. You are saying that it is Capitalism with regulation, and you are not correct.
Capitalism has regulation built into the system.
Socialism is capitalism that allows the government to take your earnings and give them to someone else. Communism is the government owns
everything, and distributes it equally. (Well thats the concept of communisim anyways.)

They are diluting our past - erasing the history of social/communist human injustice, mass murder and suffering.

Minimizing the holocaust, turning positive lights on Stalin and Hitler. It is quite alarming.

They are degrading pure Christian National foundations and replacing them with political correctness and placing Harvard graduates in positions of
power who have been awash with educational lies of Global socialism control.

They can't see how having a mix of socialism will keep the mega corps from becoming what they fear the most. Control, power and enslavement.

edit: this bit I agreed to
"Communism and socialism have failed historically, I agrre with the communism but socialism has NEVER failed here in the Netherlands everybody has
enough for everyone and it will allways be that way. Capitolism like in the USA is very Baaaaaaaaaaaaad only the rich people are in control they
decided who lives or die.
Very very very bad system. I can't wait when it all crumbles in the states it allready has begun. "

I however don't want to see the US crash.

edit on 2-12-2010 by JonoEnglish because: (no reason given)

Socialism is very much like communism. You are saying that it is Capitalism with regulation, and you are in correct. Capitalism has regulation.
Socialism is capitalism that allows the government to take your earnings and give them to someone else. Communism is the government owns everything,
and distributes it equally. (Well thats the concept of communisim anyways.)

If you work for a State/Country owned Company, you will be paid a wage, like government workers do. You will be taxed, like everyone else. The profits
from that organisation either go back into making the services cheaper if need be, upgrading the service or back into the government spending pot.

They are diluting our past - erasing the history of social/communist human injustice, mass murder and suffering.

Minimizing the holocaust, turning positive lights on Stalin and Hitler. It is quite alarming.

They are degrading pure Christian National foundations and replacing them with political correctness and placing Harvard graduates in positions of
power who have been awash with educational lies of Global socialism control.

This is really getting sick! If it isn't obvious you are blind

You maybe a little blind if you think the "Christian" National Founders were in the right and were against socialism.

If Jesus were alive, he'd be an outright socialist. Capitalism creates personal wealth. Didn't that rich man on a doney ask Jesus what he could do to
be a better person? Jesus, told him to spread his wealth.

They can't see how having a mix of socialism will keep the mega corps from becoming what they fear the most. Control, power and enslavement.

edit: this bit I agreed to
"Communism and socialism have failed historically, I agrre with the communism but socialism has NEVER failed here in the Netherlands everybody has
enough for everyone and it will allways be that way. Capitolism like in the USA is very Baaaaaaaaaaaaad only the rich people are in control they
decided who lives or die.
Very very very bad system. I can't wait when it all crumbles in the states it allready has begun. "

I however don't want to see the US crash.

edit on 2-12-2010 by JonoEnglish because: (no reason given)

Socialism is very much like communism. You are saying that it is Capitalism with regulation, and you are in correct. Capitalism has regulation.
Socialism is capitalism that allows the government to take your earnings and give them to someone else. Communism is the government owns everything,
and distributes it equally. (Well thats the concept of communisim anyways.)

Capitalism creates slaves out of those unfortunate enough to not
afford college. When a corporation's workers make 8$ an hour and the CEO makes 5,000$ an hour this is slavery. The government already takes our
earnings through tax so that our politicians can go golfing or go on foreign trips where they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If you work for a State/Country owned Company, you will be paid a wage, like government workers do. You will be taxed, like everyone else. The profits
from that organisation either go back into making the services cheaper if need be, upgrading the service or back into the government spending pot.

The only problem with your statement is reality. I have worked for the government and seen how hard it is to get rid of people that are unproductive,
or simply move them to another department. The problem is there is no competition.

Why do I need to work hard if there are no consequences of being lazy?

Look at the government in America. It is the largest, most bloated, most unproductive entity in the Western Hemisphere. This is what happens when
you cultivate this type of enviroment.

If you work for a State/Country owned Company, you will be paid a wage, like government workers do. You will be taxed, like everyone else. The profits
from that organisation either go back into making the services cheaper if need be, upgrading the service or back into the government spending pot.

The only problem with your statement is reality. I have worked for the government and seen how hard it is to get rid of people that are unproductive,
or simply move them to another department. The problem is there is no competition.

Why do I need to work hard if there are no consequences of being lazy?

Look at the government in America. It is the largest, most bloated, most unproductive entity in the Western Hemisphere. This is what happens when
you cultivate this type of enviroment. """
*****

DAM QUOTE THING, quote is above

Yes but that isn't an arguement against the concept of socialism within a capitalist enviroment. That would an arguement for employment law in
relation to being able to get rid of unproductive people.

Originally posted by BigFrigginAl
My first question is how does a post about socialism vs. communism vs. capitilism skew into what happened to native americans hundreds of years ago?
It wasn't "evil americans" and capitilistic greed...it was english, french and spanish, if I'm not mistaken, trying to claim new land.

It was capitalistic greed that fueled the Manifest Destiny Doctrine. It was capitalistic greed that fueled colonialism and led to the atrocities
committed by those nations. So, in my opinion, you are wrong.

The issue here isn't whether America is evil, as you say. The issue here is that while yes, communist states are responsible for the deaths of
millions, so are capitalist ones.

Your point is steeped in revisionism which is a tool of liberalism.

It happened, it's done, people in this day and age should have no reason to apologize.

Your persecution complex is showing. No one has asked for an apology.

As to the statements it is still being done...every person has the ability to change their lot in life, because I have worked my a$$ off since
the age of 16, I should feel sorry for those that do nothing (and I'm not generalizing the majority, just commenting on what was said). Any person,
regardless of nationality, that revieves benefits, but does nothing to improve their situation...I'm sorry, I feel nothing but contempt. No one is
forcing anyone to let life pass them by with a bottle in their hands, that is an individual choice.

So, what would your life be like if you didn't have the opportunity to work hard? Not everyone has the same opportunities. Not everyone is given a
"shot". Some people in America live in 3rd world conditions and the alternative is to forsake their cultural identity for a chance at at a lifestyle
that runs counter to their spiritual beliefs just to feed themselves.

I expect you see that as a viable alternative and a choice. But, that's easy from your ethnocentric viewpoint. Try to understand the condition of the
have-nots. You have no job when you are 16, not because you are lazy but because they don't exist. Your education system is lacking if it even exists
so you have little hope of getting a degree. When you finally do find work some where people like yourself view the person as lazy and unreliable
because you can not fathom them having different life experiences from your own.

My take on the OP's question...I was listening to a speech made by the president at a college graduation ceremony...he stated (and this is
not exact quotes)...you are now at a crossroads, you can choose to chase the big house, cars, etc...or you can choose to give back to those that
helped you get here...you have a responsibility...etc...Nobody helped me get through college, I worked, I paid...and again, if I work hard, I am
greedy because I want nice things?

Actually a lot of people did. See, you had to travel to get there. You had to eat food grown, processed, transported, etc. You had to have water that
came from some where. You wore clothes that were produced by some one. The list goes on and on.

You see, that life experience and that opportunity was made possible because of the collective effort of people who aren't lucky enough to be in your
shoes and those that were.

My responsibility is to take care of my family. I do not have problems with social programs, I do have problems with people that expect these
social programs to get them through life...welfare, food stamps, govt. housing...sure, for the person that has hit hard times, but at some point,
there has to be a limitation. Go to any gvot. housing project, what do you see...trash, crime, unkempt...yea, a generalization, but people do not
appreciate that which is given.

Actually your responsibility is to hold up your end of the societal contract. As long as you do that first and for most you are at liberty to take on
any responsibilities of your choosing.

Have you ever thought about why some would ever commit a crime? Have you ever thought why one would improve the property value of a place if it only
means they will have to pay more rent when the lease term is up and you wouldn't be able to afford it? Have you ever thought about how degrading it
is to have to accept a handout because there is no way for you to provide for yourself otherwise?

See, I've lived in Gov't Housing Projects. What I see is a bunch of people doing the best they can with what they got. I've seen people commit a
crime for the sole purpose of getting arrested so they have some where to sleep and food to eat. Have you thought about what it must be like to be in
that position? Have you looked into what it would cost to treat the problems that create crime in the first place against how many of your tax dollars
go towards imprisoning that person?

Socialism in the modern age will never work. Those "workers" that own the means of production end up becoming a "ruling class". Forcing people
to give up their money to pay for social programs will never work. Which is why Americans don't like or want Socialism or universal healthcare.

As to the healthcare issue... what's to stop people from smoking or doing other hazardous things since they know they'll be covered no matter what?
and why should I have to pay for someone else's reckless behavior? Let them pay for it, I'll take care of myself.

Whether you like it or not, someone is always going to try to take control and impose their views on others. So Socialism and Communism can't work..
even Capitalism can't work like we see today... too many people seeking power over others. Govt needs to be put on a very short leash and kept very
small.

Because the worker deserves his wages. No person has any right to take what does not belong to them and give it to others. Communism/Socialism is
the government sponsored theft of peoples' property.

Many Americans are more than happy to give to charity and help the less fortunate. All our government has done by creating social security and others
things was create a welfare society where the lazy get to live off of the sweat of the workers.

Biblically speaking, the early church was full of people who would sell their property and give the money to the poor among them. They made sure
there was no needy person within the church. The MAJOR difference here is that people were giving out of the kindness of their heart and were doing
so happily. Socialism turns us into slaves of the state, where we no longer have a choice and there is no longer any joy in helping the less
fortunate.

Also, whenever you have government run socialism you have more and more middlemen who take a cut. I always go back to thinking about Russia in 1918
when I think of exactly why communism and socialism are bound to fail. If this was an ideal world where people in charge were honest and most of all
GOOD, it would work. As it is, people are corrupt, power-hungry and greedy and therefor socialism will fail.

Actually, any system of government will fail if the people turn from what is good and right and only seek what pleases them without regard to the
needs of others. If we actually loved each other as we loved ourselves, any system of government could work.

Originally posted by Twainfan
Socialism in the modern age will never work. Those "workers" that own the means of production end up becoming a "ruling class". Forcing people
to give up their money to pay for social programs will never work. Which is why Americans don't like or want Socialism or universal healthcare.

It's the American people that would be in control by their vote and through dialogue with their government representatives.

we hate socialism because america is supposed to be D.I.Y. with as little government as possible. the government that governs best is a government
that governs less. the essence of freedom is the proper limitation of government.
these are some standards we were built on and do not want to stray from because of what world history has shown us.

if you make the government (and therefore the people) the common owners of an industry and start regulating that industry to allocate its resources
based on planning instead of market forces, then you have socialized that industry. socialism isn't just about 'production.'

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