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July 2010: If We Don't land Lebron, can we please...

Just get rid of D'Antoni.

This has nothing to do with the last game performance but moreso my on going opinion of the whole situation with the team.

It's going to be a turning point for this team. Complete roster revamp. Therefore if you're going to tutor the young guys like Gallo, Chandler, Hill, Douglas. They need to be taught the importance of defense. The importance of winning basketball inside the paint. The importance of TEAM BASKETBALL. Something IMPOSSIBLE with a 7 seconds or less system.

Can we get a coach who understands and doesnt shy away from these concepts? That coach will have the CLEANEST slate there is of the past 6 head coaching hires by the Knicks this summer. The opportunity to REALLY start from scratch and assemble a defensive team that is fit for battle.

If we get stuck with D'Antoni and no LeBron and we sign non-defensive players, Im officially giving up as a Knicks fan.

This summer is our opportunity to score some defensive talent and a coach who can turn this franchise around. Please, please don't let me down.....

The Knicks need to fire Mike D'Antoni. It is because of him that the Knicks don't have Brook Lopez. It is also because of him that the Knicks have
Chris Duhon as their starting point guard. Mike D'Antoni is terrible at creating starting lineups, and his substitiutions in the 4th quarter are rediculous.

I don't entirely blame D'Antoni, though.

Walsh is the one listening to D'Anphony's every command. Walsh needs to get a backbone and stop doing whatever D'Antoni wants him to do.

The Knicks need to fire Mike D'Antoni. It is because of him that the Knicks don't have Brook Lopez. It is also because of him that the Knicks have
Chris Duhon as their starting point guard. Mike D'Antoni is terrible at creating starting lineups, and his substitiutions in the 4th quarter are rediculous.

I don't entirely blame D'Antoni, though.

Walsh is the one listening to D'Anphony's every command. Walsh needs to get a backbone and stop doing whatever D'Antoni wants him to do.

Where are you getting that from? I don't think that any other coach we could have had definitely would have gotten Brook Lopez on this team. Maybe we would have been less likely to draft Gallo without Mike D, but that doesn't mean we would have definitely gotten Lopez. I actually think this team would have gone with Gordon or Augustin with most other coaches.

Also, Jordan Hill is not a Mike D'Antoni-type guy. That indicates to me that MAYBE Mike D isn't pulling the draft strings as much as we think.

I know the love of Lopez is well-documented on this board, and hindsight is 20/20. But the fact is there were lots of draft-guys saying he would be a bust, almost as many as said he would succeed. In fact, the only reason the Nets got him is because they were set on taking a center or Jerryd Bayless...If Brook and Bayless were gone, they would have traded down or taken Robin Lopez if Brook wasn't there. They wanted a center.

I do agree with you on the other stuff though. Duhon is certainly D'Antoni's hand-picked PG (even if the pickings were slim). And I agree he makes bone-headed moves in the 4th quarter. I still don't understand why Toney Douglas hasn't seen minutes. He can't possibly be worse than what's out there now. But I don't blame Mike D'Antoni for this team not having Brook Lopez, as I don't think D'Antoni has the clout in the draft room we might think he does.

As for firing the guy...my problem is no one is going to come in here and do better. This team is not a playoff team, we have an abysmal roster. I don't know that any coach would add any significant number of wins...might as well keep him on until he starts misusing ACTUAL NBA TALENT. If we don't get LeBron, I see even less of a point in firing Mike D'Antoni. We'd still have to pay him, and we will be stuck with a ****ty roster again. I'd be more inclined to fire him if we get some talent and Mike D'Antoni lets it waste (which very well could happen).

I don't agree with many of Mike's moves, and I understand why people on this board might want him to go, but I'm not sure anyone else we bring in is going to make this team a serious playoff contender. That's my only hesitation.

This has nothing to do with the last game performance but moreso my on going opinion of the whole situation with the team.

It's going to be a turning point for this team. Complete roster revamp. Therefore if you're going to tutor the young guys like Gallo, Chandler, Hill, Douglas. They need to be taught the importance of defense. The importance of winning basketball inside the paint. The importance of TEAM BASKETBALL. Something IMPOSSIBLE with a 7 seconds or less system.

Can we get a coach who understands and doesnt shy away from these concepts? That coach will have the CLEANEST slate there is of the past 6 head coaching hires by the Knicks this summer. The opportunity to REALLY start from scratch and assemble a defensive team that is fit for battle.

If we get stuck with D'Antoni and no LeBron and we sign non-defensive players, Im officially giving up as a Knicks fan.

This summer is our opportunity to score some defensive talent and a coach who can turn this franchise around. Please, please don't let me down.....

Thank You.

Sincerely, a disgruntled Knicks fan.

You might as well give up being a Knicks fan now. We're not getting Lebron and D'Antoni is not getting fired anytime soon.

Ironically though, this team is playing better defense than it has in 7 years, they are not playing the 7 seconds or less system and D'Antoni is probably our strongest draw (besides NY city) for Lebron.

Cap flexibility in 2010 is going to grant us a fresh start. Build anew. Sign new players, pretty much an opportunity to turn this franchise 180.

Are Knicks fans still excited about this 7 seconds or less system? NO! I see everyone complaining about "WTH was D'Antoni mapping out during that timeout to win the last game...." Im now convinced the guy has a limited knowledge of set plays. Realistically, how many plays can you set in a system that is 7 seconds or less....

More importantly, what are we teaching to the young guys on this team when they're playing in a system where the shot clock is set to 7? "Don't pass, shoot! shoot! shoot!" They're not going to develop team comradery this way... They're not leaning on each other to help one another out.

That is BAD BASKETBALL to even a YMCA coach.

Where's the isolation? Where's the routes? Do they just do shooting and runnning drills in practice?

-----------------

But this is not a bash D'Antoni thread. He is a great head coach to a team with proven winners. I recently read an article somewhere which one of the players hailed D'Antoni because he treats his players like adults.

That right there is where the piece doesn't fit the puzzle. These young guys are fresh out of college and they need to be disciplined and taught in a structured team game. D'Antoni's system simply won't work over here....

-----------

My thing is, who'd you hire as head coach and who do you sign assuming LeBron never comes here....

Where are you getting that from? I don't think that any other coach we could have had definitely would have gotten Brook Lopez on this team. Maybe we would have been less likely to draft Gallo without Mike D, but that doesn't mean we would have definitely gotten Lopez. I actually think this team would have gone with Gordon or Augustin with most other coaches.

Also, Jordan Hill is not a Mike D'Antoni-type guy. That indicates to me that MAYBE Mike D isn't pulling the draft strings as much as we think.

I know the love of Lopez is well-documented on this board, and hindsight is 20/20. But the fact is there were lots of draft-guys saying he would be a bust, almost as many as said he would succeed. In fact, the only reason the Nets got him is because they were set on taking a center or Jerryd Bayless...If Brook and Bayless were gone, they would have traded down or taken Robin Lopez if Brook wasn't there. They wanted a center.

I do agree with you on the other stuff though. Duhon is certainly D'Antoni's hand-picked PG (even if the pickings were slim). And I agree he makes bone-headed moves in the 4th quarter. I still don't understand why Toney Douglas hasn't seen minutes. He can't possibly be worse than what's out there now. But I don't blame Mike D'Antoni for this team not having Brook Lopez, as I don't think D'Antoni has the clout in the draft room we might think he does.

As for firing the guy...my problem is no one is going to come in here and do better. This team is not a playoff team, we have an abysmal roster. I don't know that any coach would add any significant number of wins...might as well keep him on until he starts misusing ACTUAL NBA TALENT. If we don't get LeBron, I see even less of a point in firing Mike D'Antoni. We'd still have to pay him, and we will be stuck with a ****ty roster again. I'd be more inclined to fire him if we get some talent and Mike D'Antoni lets it waste (which very well could happen).

I don't agree with many of Mike's moves, and I understand why people on this board might want him to go, but I'm not sure anyone else we bring in is going to make this team a serious playoff contender. That's my only hesitation.

I think a defensive minded coach would help the Knicks a lot. D'Antoni is way too concerned with starting the players he likes than starting the best possible player at each position.

I think the Knicks should fire Mike D'Antoni. That's my opinion, based on what I have seen from him.

As for the Gallinari drafting, D'Antoni is the #1 reason why the Knicks drafted him. Any other coach would have gotten the Knicks someone else. And if Ewing were coach, the Knicks would have probably gotten Brook Lopez to play with either
Zach Randolph or David Lee and Wilson Chandler in the frontcourt.

I know you like to manipualte people's posts, so I'm going to beat you to it.
No, I am not saying the Knicks should have gotten Ewing as the head coach, even though he would have most likely been a better fit for the Knicks than D'Antoni.
But if the Knicks would have gotten Ewing as the head coach, they would have more likely than not gotten Brook Lopez. That is what I am saying.

I think a defensive minded coach would help the Knicks a lot. D'Antoni is way too concerned with starting the players he likes than starting the best possible player at each position.

I think the Knicks should fire Mike D'Antoni. That's my opinion, based on what I have seen from him.

As for the Gallinari drafting, D'Antoni is the #1 reason why the Knicks drafted him. Any other coach would have gotten the Knicks someone else. And if Ewing were coach, the Knicks would have probably gotten Brook Lopez to play with either
Zach Randolph or David Lee and Wilson Chandler in the frontcourt.

I know you like to manipualte people's posts, so I'm going to beat you to it.
No, I am not saying the Knicks should have gotten Ewing as the head coach, even though he would have most likely been a better fit for the Knicks than D'Antoni.
But if the Knicks would have gotten Ewing as the head coach, they would have more likely than not gotten Brook Lopez. That is what I am saying.

That's your opinion. I just haven't heard anything or seen anything from Patrick Ewing, or from anybody else, that would make me think that we would have gone after Brook Lopez. There's just no proof that with Ewing or any other coach we would have gotten Lopez...If there is then please cite to it.

Also, it seems like you are hating on Gallinari. I don't know what your opinion is on him, but based on your tone it seems like you don't like him. I'm not sure I agree with your assessment were this the case. I think the Knicks likely would have taken Gallinari at 6 regardless of who was the coach, he was touted as a high-level scorer with NBA-like toughness and great athleticism. I feel like whoever made the decision felt like we first and foremost needed a scorer and an outside threat. I think he's made life slightly easier on David Lee, teams respect Gallo's jumper a D-Lee can get one-on-one a lot easier (which probably has accounted for his improvement this year). Brook Lopez might have done the same (in a different manner), but there was some skepticism with Lopez, moreso than I think there was with Gallo.

If you think they should fire D'Antoni, that's your decision...but I haven't seen from you (or anybody else) who you would get to coach THIS roster (forget about the past), and how that coach's particular experience would help boost this team and make them significantly better than they are right now. It's easy to say "Fire him," but you have to propose a reasonable solution in light of it.

Edit: My bad, I forgot you said something about a defensive-minded coach. I just don't agree that this team has the defensive talent right now to be a solid defensive stopping team. Also, who out there on the market is a defensive minded coach? Patrick Ewing has not taken his system into the limelight, are we SURE he'd be a defensive-minded coach? I'm not. You want to fire D'Antoni, but who do we get to replace him? I've seen suggestions of Herb Williams, but we've been down that route, and it was horrible enough.

I respect this post. You backed up your points well and you didn't make outrageous statements like d'antoni should be fired or that he is a terrible coach. Earlier I saw a d'antoni comparrison to Isiah. If we have gone to that resort then we have failed as fans. You can't be a fan by hating everything about the team. Personally I wasn't much of a fan of by in isiah's last year but this team is perfect and I love an offensive team. Defense is quite boring

Originally Posted by KBlack25

That's your opinion. I just haven't heard anything or seen anything from Patrick Ewing, or from anybody else, that would make me think that we would have gone after Brook Lopez. There's just no proof that with Ewing or any other coach we would have gotten Lopez...If there is then please cite to it.

Also, it seems like you are hating on Gallinari. I don't know what your opinion is on him, but based on your tone it seems like you don't like him. I'm not sure I agree with your assessment were this the case. I think the Knicks likely would have taken Gallinari at 6 regardless of who was the coach, he was touted as a high-level scorer with NBA-like toughness and great athleticism. I feel like whoever made the decision felt like we first and foremost needed a scorer and an outside threat. I think he's made life slightly easier on David Lee, teams respect Gallo's jumper a D-Lee can get one-on-one a lot easier (which probably has accounted for his improvement this year). Brook Lopez might have done the same (in a different manner), but there was some skepticism with Lopez, moreso than I think there was with Gallo.

If you think they should fire D'Antoni, that's your decision...but I haven't seen from you (or anybody else) who you would get to coach THIS roster (forget about the past), and how that coach's particular experience would help boost this team and make them significantly better than they are right now. It's easy to say "Fire him," but you have to propose a reasonable solution in light of it.

Edit: My bad, I forgot you said something about a defensive-minded coach. I just don't agree that this team has the defensive talent right now to be a solid defensive stopping team. Also, who out there on the market is a defensive minded coach? Patrick Ewing has not taken his system into the limelight, are we SURE he'd be a defensive-minded coach? I'm not. You want to fire D'Antoni, but who do we get to replace him? I've seen suggestions of Herb Williams, but we've been down that route, and it was horrible enough.

knicks are a mess...............................

VIA KNICKS BLOG:

The following was submitted by Matthew Arana, as always we encourage all fans to submit their thoughts to [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
By the way, the update on the new contributor is that the submissions are being read and we are still a few weeks away from a decision.It’s hard to believe that its going to become any better when management has different goals in mind.

Despite all of the pro-D’Antoni and “I’m drinking Walsh’s Kool-Aid” biases, its on both of them that the team is a disaster. First lets discuss Walsh. He traded away Crawford and Randolph last year and essentially the Knicks playoff dreams as well. It then seemed as if the Knicks were heading towards rebuilding with Chandler and Gallinari as the young core. When the Knicks drafted for Hill and Douglas, I believed that D’Antoni would provide Hill and Douglas with major minutes because the team was focused on the 2010 crop of free agents. Thats where I was dead wrong. D’Antoni was set on winning this year instead of developing his two first round draft picks. Duhon, Nate, and Hughes are still above Douglas in the depth chart while it is clear the latter is the only one who has a future with this team. Earlier in the season, why were Milicic and Bender playing over Jordan Hill? Its not as if their future’s are more important. So the question becomes why isn’t D’Antoni following Walsh’s rebuilding plan by giving his rookies playing time?

The simple answer is because D’Antoni wants to win now. When D’Antoni and Walsh have diverging intentions, the team will not make it anywhere. Walsh is not and will not provide his coach with the horses to make it a race because he is looking ahead and does not want to distract from the long-term plan. Meanwhile, D’Antoni hungers for the playoffs. Can you really blame him? If management does not focus on the same goal, the team on the floor pays the consequence.That is why the Knicks are thirteen games under .500.

And contrary to euphemistic belief, the Knicks are a mess. When the Knicks finish this year with a losing record, it will be the ninth straight year that the team has finished without at least an even record. Since the the 2001-2002 season, the Knicks have been the epitomy of ineptitude. Consider this: according to Forbes, before the Laker’s ascended to the top spot this year with a value of $607 million, the Knicks were the most valuable franchise during the previous four seasons.

During those four seasons, the Knicks had 111 wins and and 217 losses. In that same span, the Lakers were 209-119. Talk about Knick’s inefficiency. The team had all the money and spent it childishly. It can be strongly argued that the Knicks have been the least efficient franchise in sports. But, the Knicks high value confirms that the Knicks are an attraction in NY. The city loves basketball and the team can still bring in a crowd even during this mismanagement catastrophe. (Do you believe those band wagon fans in Los Angeles would still fill the Staples Center with a horrendous team?

Although, Jerry Buss and lack of success is inconceivable) The only other time in Knick’s history that compares was when the Knicks failed to at least achieve an even win and loss record from the 1959-1960 to the 1966-1967 seasons. During those eight years, the NBA was still in its infancy. Professional basketball was young and so were the Knicks. Its going to be nine years and counting. So, we as fans can honestly say that we have witnessed the worst run in Knick’s franchise history.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

i think that pretty much sums it up.that's what it looks like to me.walsh wants to have his cake, and d'antoni wants to eat it.i think i remeber vaguely that d'antoni wasn't happy about the craw and zbo trades.

I understand the frustration, I'm not willing to fire him till I see what he does next season. Let's at least give him a year when we somewhat talented. Gallo should get a lot better, Chandler should get better, Hill should get better. If we don't land Lebron like the thread says hopefully we can pry someone like Joe Johnson and pair him up with Lee (assuming they both take a little paycut). What I'm saying is that we should give the man a chance with a REAL roster. Like I said before our roster is full of has beens, hopefully will bes, and David Lee. That isn't going to get very far.