I Stand With Carla Alcorn

This is Joshua Ryan Alcorn.

November 15, 1997 – December 28, 2014

Last Sunday as our church gathered to worship, a prayer request came in from one of our youth group leaders. He asked for prayers for a family in his brother’s church. Their son died just hours before.

That boy was Joshua Alcorn.

Joshua Alcorn walked out in front of a semi-truck on I-71 early Sunday morning, ending his life. Joshua believed he was transgender. He believed that he was a girl trapped in a boys body. He referred to himself as Leelah.

The LGBT community quickly snatched the story and claimed their martyr. For a week they have exploited this tragedy. They have used the loss to attack Christian, biblical family values. They have dehumanized and vilified his mother in the process.

I don’t know much about transgender issues. I don’t know anything about sexual re-identification.

Here’s what I do know:

A mother’s arms are empty.

There is no loss that devastates a person more immediately and more drastically than the loss of a child.

It is as if a bomb explodes in our soul. It changes the DNA of our heart forever. Depression, anxiety, insomnia, and PTSD become life long companions of a grieving mother.

Tonight, there is a woman walking that road. She is grieving because her child is gone.

His mother loves him like no one else.

From the first positive pregnancy test, moms dream and hope for their child’s future. No one loves like a mother.

I don’t care how discriminatory, callous and religiously closed minded the agenda driven LGBT community paints Carla Alcorn out to be, I know, on this the 2 year anniversary of my own son’s death, no one loves Joshua like she does.

No one is filled with more doubt, more grief, more what-if’s than this woman. She was his mom. She is his mom.

Who is she?

The media is portraying Carla as a religious bully who imprisoned her son with intolerance.

When I think of her I wonder how many tears she shed. I wonder how many prayers she uttered. I wonder how many sleepless nights she spent trying to reconcile her faith and the desires of her child.

She is simply a heart-broken mom.

What does she believe?

This woman anchored her self in the record of Creation found in the book of Genesis. The book of Genesis is a sacred writing for millions of people world-wide. She believes a truth that millions of others believe too. She believes that God created her son as he did Adam in the garden, a male.

The media portrayal of her flippant approach to this timeless truth found in the Book of God is the true discrimination.

The real injustice

Rather than the community support that we cherished after our son died, the Alcorns have been forced into an underground life of private funerals and secret grief and personal security.

The real injustice lies in the hate-infused outcry against a grieving mother. From the call to bring charges of neglect to death threats, Carla Alcorn, mother of Joshua Ryan Alcorn is being persecuted for her faith. That is the real injustice.

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Matthew 5:10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. The Alcorn family although undergoing difficult trials now will be blessed by God. Let the world hold their candlelight vigils celebrating tragedy they created.

Just because special interests groups call for society to be fixed doesn’t mean society needs to be fixed the way they want it. Those in support of many sinful things they desire will get the fix in society they long for when Christians are taken from this world and their tribulation begins. Then they will long for tolerance like never before but it will not be given mercy by the world. I pray they turn to God then.

Romans 28:31
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

I am proud that the Alcorn family did love Josh and did not let him substitute a lie for truth. It doesn’t matter how many millions are for sexual depravity and confusion. It still doesn’t make it right.

Blessed are the billions of transgender souls that have been persecuted, humiliated, shamed, beaten and murdered for the sake of righteousness!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Will Join Them In Heaven!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!

Transgender children are not a special interest group, they are naturally created children. These children are not a sin or creating a sin because they exist, they are children trying to live life as everyone else, but because of people like you, it is very scary and difficult for them. God created the universe and everything in it, man created religion. I believe we all will be accountable for how we live our lives on earth and the positive contributions we make to the quality and fulfillment of the lives of others. As I believe in God and firmly believe that religion is an important part of life, I am proud my perceptions are opposite yours!

No love… no mercy. Then you go on to say “I am proud that the Alcorn family did love Josh and did not let him substitute a lie for truth.” I chuckle. It’s disheartening. It’s depressing, You talk about love, kindness, humility, honor, righteousness, compassion… as if you have any idea what any of those things mean. What they are. What it feels like to have them. How can you sit and talk as if you’ve ever even felt love when you would rather your baby die than let them live a happy life you don’t agree with. You are not righteous. You are not pious. You are not a human being. You are a monster. And if your god ever did make a mistake… it was in creating wretches like you.

This woman killed her child, sure as if she had put a gun to her head. This woman’s “religion” meant she would rather have a dead son than a beautiful living daughter. She should feel the shame and regret of a murderer and I have no sympathy for her.

You and people like you are the reason that trans people are treated as they are. If you rally behind, and assume the living conditions of a boy you never met, you are grasping at straws. I believe that the world isn’t equal for trans people, but the way to a better world will not be built on hate. I hope you learn more about religion and mother hood before you blame a woman for the suicide of her gender queer son.

amen sister this op-ed makes no sense. Just because your religion says one thing doesnt mean society has to govern itself accordingly. Im a christian but I do not let my faith get in the way when im making an ethical decision.

They love their SON. Joshua was named by them and buried by them. You don’t get to dictate how they should handle this situation. Rather than cowardly bash them on the internet, try fighting for the rights of trans people who are facing inequality right now. Until the rallying cry for a movement isn’t about the hatred of a mother due to her loss of a child, you are doing nothing.

Wouldn’t let HIM. Joshua was only 16 years old-where is the money going to come from? Should the Alcorn’s deprive their other children in order to pay for body mutilating surgery that doesn’t fix the problem? It’s called “dysphoria” for a reason-it’s a MENTAL ILLNESS.

Wow, this post is wrong on so many levels. Referring to Leelah using her male name and male pronouns is disrespectful. You are so one-sided that you can’t see the real tragedy – Carla murdered her daughter and is getting away with it. FUCK YOU!

You have sacrificed reason to preserve faith; and thus you cannot be trusted to make sound and rational decisions. Hence, your absurd support for a woman so vile that her own ‘daughter’ would rather die than suffer her abuse any longer. That’s who you stand with.

If someone with an ounce of academic/intellectual credibility came out in support of Carla Acorn — that would surprise me. But you? No. The modern fanatic theist is without morals; you are a 21st century person with bronze aged values. So don’t expect people to be surprised to find you stand with other out of touch, scientifically illiterate, morally void deviants like Carla and Doug Alcorn.

All of you who have posted such negative things on here should be ashamed of yourselves! Before JOSHUA took his own life you didnt even know HE existed let alone care about HIM! The only thing you care about is using a young MAN who was mentally unbalanced to further your agendas!!!!! You want acceptance and tolerance but you refuse to show the same for those who believe and feel differently!!!! JOSH was loved by HIS parents!!! They did everything they could for him and not once did they tell HIM to take his life HE made that choice!!! HE chose to step in front of a semi and die!!! I feel sorry for all of you who posted such horrible things about HIS parents and will be praying for all of you!!! PS. Leave HIS family alone they are dealing with enough as it is without having their younger children terrorized by the horrible threats and hate you all are spewing!!! I TOO STAND WITH CARLA!!!!!

Heather, each and every time you capitalise a pronoun out of spite you only serve to highlight your own ignorance. By referring to Leelah as a he, you aren’t hurting anybody here; you are merely poking at an innocent dead girl with a stick.

Fuck you. I had class with her. She was the nicest smartest person in class. Then one day, she disappeared. She didn’t come back to school. She didn’t contact anyone. Not one fucking friend. Because of her own mother. Her name is Leelah. She wanted to be called Leelah, so out of fucking respect, you should call HER, Leelah.

You just don’t get it, Do you?
Carla’s own flesh and blood she was mature enough to lay in bed and create life but not mature enough to love the life she created in nine months time. Her body crafting her very own child almost like a machine- each and every detail given special attention her see the thing about machines every once in awhile there are errors. The brain of a daughter body, of a son.
Leelah’s mother took her daughter’s life, whether intentionally or not. It was as if pressing a gun to her head and saying “Call yourself a She again, and I’ll shoot you.”
“Ever since I was 4, I knew I wish I was born a girl, and a couple of years ago I came out to my family and close friends as transsexual and they freaked out, in the bad way.”
They hurt Leelah. Whether emotionally or not.
“She always talked about how she felt people were not accepting of her.”
“I wish that even though her parents weren’t accepting, I wish they hadn’t cut her off from getting help.”
Her parents were cruel.
So don’t you dare, don’t you fucking dare.
You’re hurting her soul. You’re not Christian. You’re nothing. You’re just a horrible person.
“He (She. Fuck you) chose to step in-front of that semi!”
Stop. You’re an idiot, you do’t know what you’re saying. Your words are shortsighted, your mind is dim. You’re so naive.
Don’t talk about her like that. Continue like this, and nobody will trust you.
Don’t have children.
Don’t reproduce. Don’t spread your genes. I don’t want your idiocy spreading.

LOL you say that the fact that we didn’t even know he existed before he died as an argument. And that’s true.

I didn’t know Joshua. But you know what I’ve done? I’ve done research. And I’ve come to understand Leelah as a person.

“The only thing you care about is using a young MAN who was mentally unbalanced to further your agendas!!!!!”

No. The only thing that is remotely accurate is furthering the LGBT agenda. 1-We are saddened (to put it lightly) that this poor child died. so its not the only thing we care about. 2-Leelah was a girl, so there is no “man” about it. 3-Mentally Unbalanced? Really? I suppose that is actually true, but not the way you say it. You make her sound confused. She wasn’t, she knew exactly who she was. But she became unstable because she had no one who accepted that.

Her parents killed her. They refused to accept her. Then they isolated her from any contact to other people. All because she didn’t fit their cookie cutter mold of how their child should’ve been.

You know who else killed because the victim didn’t fit their mold of how they should be?
Adolf Hitler. Are you grieving him because of the suicide of his niece?

Bruh…
What a comment we have here.
I’m just gonna say one thing then dip.
If you have to compare the suicides of a gender queer boy-girl and Adolf Hitler, you’ve already lost. This kid ended their life, boy or girl, it doesn’t matter. Tran people aren’t treated fair, its a sad truth. Instead of blaming Alcorn’s parents (I think hes a guy, but whatever) you all should log off, unplug your computer, go outside and reflect on the fact that a family lost a child, not that they killed him or she killed herself, but that a life was lost and people were left behind. Then come back inside, throw your computer away and actually do something that matters for the trans people. Arguing on the internet won’t do shit.

And it shows. Perhaps once you have educated yourself on this important issue you should write another blog, and maybe include an apology for the self admittedly poorly informed drivel you have posted here.

You don’t know any of the people responding here are members of the LGBT community. Pure guesswork fuelled – I suspect – by your own prejudices.

I’m not a member of the ‘LGBTQ’ community and I’m just as appalled by the behaviour of Carla Alcorn as any other decent human being.
You don’t have to be a member of any particular community to have an ounce of decency and a sense of right and wrong.

Do some research. There are plenty of straight Christians who are disgusted by that vile woman bullying her child to death.

For starters, I’m not LGBT, but I am appalled by the lack of “love” these parents showed their own kin. Second, I’m appalled by the lack of “compassion” the author of this blog, and people like yourself, have shown to the deceased.

I find it funny that any of you presume to know what went on in that household prior to this devastating incident.I feel sorry for this young person. This young person was born a boy regardless of how ever anyone feels about it, that is a fact. Every child that is born in the world is given a name usually by parents. In this particular situation, this child was named by his parents, Joshua. These are facts.I find everyone extremely judgemental for presuming to know anything of which that happened prior to this event. Anyone that Has ever had teenagers, boy or girl, know that they tend to blow things out of proportion sometimes. Most teenagers suffer depression in the early Stages of life. what a sad end to this life. What a despicable display of behavior in human beings left behind in the wake of this tragedy. Some people use it to further their game, to not having sympathy or trying to look at it from anyone else’s perspective other than how it suits them, also sad.. And ignorant. Now everyone, THROW STONES!!!!!

Have you read her (Leelah’s) Blog. I have. I’ve read, first hand, what her parents did, and thought, about their own daughter. It is quite disgusting. And I’m quite thrilled to see another religious defending these parents.

Another liberalist believing they know it all and if we don’t agree with you it’s religious… Funny…. I stated facts…. Joshua was born a boy… Fact. Named at birth Joshua… Fact. Unless you raised Joshua, don’t presume you know anything… Fact. Everyone has a side dumbass… Just because there is a world tolerance corroding the plant I live in, doesn’t mean I have to accept it… Drink your kool-aid… Must be nice to think you’re the all knowing king of idiots. Congratulations!

Fact: Leelah Alcorn was born with a dick, but from the age of 4 did not feel she fit in said body. This is from her suicide note. Care to refute that with evidence of your own?

Fact: Leelah documented how she was treated. We know she was raised in isolation.

Fact: Her only request was to live as Leelah.

Fact: Legal name changes are a thing.

Fact: You’ve presented no evidence that Leelah’s existence was a perversion other than referencing Kool-Aid. Your arguments are whack, your grammar is worse than the immigrants’ whom you no doubt dislike, and what’s worse is you’ve made me stoop to your level in insulting rather than arguing.

Have you missed your latest dose of meds or what missy? Who is presuming? The details of Leelah’s life are extremely publicised (Carla Alcorn wishes they weren’t that’s why she’s trying to delete her daughters online footprint from the Internet as we speak. That’s not a presumption either, genius). Much of the details of Leelah’s life are very well known and Leelah’s own personal testament has been confirmed multiple times by people close to her and even her own mothers account. Im beginning to think you don’t even know what the word presume means.

Oh how you all make me”feel” maybe I should kill myself and then everyone can see how mean everyone was to me… That’s how I feel… And I can say it everywhere!! So glad this is the world I live in today… What a mess… I’ve wasted enough time here, don’t know why I bothered in the 1st place. What happened to this young person was sad… But blaming others is what this society does best. Glad to know you are all so perfect and have never done/said something wrong or judged when you shouldn’t… Just because It was written, doesn’t make it so… Mirrors anyone? Enjoy you’re lives as I will venture to never give this topic or the people here one more second of my life…

and go ahead ignore me if you so wish, but i will say what needs to be said even if you won’t listen. Yes it’s true that everyone sins. But you know what you do after you sin to show you’re still a good person? You reprent.

Leelah’s parents never repented. They may regret, but they have never repented. They have never admitted that they ever did anything wrong. I know this because of one simple fact:

They still call her Josh.

If you do something wrong, you should acknowledge that and fix it. But every time they refer to her as “him”, they might as well be pissing on her grave.

“A mental condition which negatively affects the ability of the afflicted to function in normal life.” This is a basic definition definition of mental illness and perfectly describes what happened to Josh. Society does the mentally ill a great disservice when we try to play along with their game of pretend. Transgender feelings used to be classified in the DSM, everyone should look into the reasons it dropped out of the classification manual.

For you trolls spitting venom at the Alcorns: They loved their son and tried their best. They don’t have to answer to you and they never will. There are millions of us that will never accept your perversion of “normal.”

I’ll admit to being uneducated on this subject. To a degree. I don’t have any first hand relationships with any transgender people, so I truly don’t know them personally.

I’ve thought a lot about what I think about this though. Josh himself summed up my thoughts about transgenders fairly well much deeper in his blog. He was arguing with some folks who believe they are actually animals (or animal spirits, not sure) trapped in a human body. Josh stated that this was ridiculous because you couldn’t just claim to be something you weren’t. It was insightful to me just how much his mental illness had progressed that he couldn’t see the glaring irony in his own statement.

Here is what I believe, and you have to know that there will be millions who won’t be swayed on this, even 100 years into the future: if you’re born with XY chromosomes you’re a boy. XX chromosomes and you’re a girl. How you “feel” has no bearing on this. You can’t change it “just because you want to.” Our society surely condones this, but a portion of us, even if we become a minority, will continue to stand firm. The wishes of disturbed individuals doesn’t change science or chromosomes. It’s the symbol of a depraved world that this is being shoved on people to accept.

What you “believe” is irrelevant when you admit there is no substance behind your own conclusion. You are – self admittedly – uneducated on this subject. Until that changes your ignorant opinion has no merit outside of your own mind.

And yes, of course there will always be uneducated bigots who agree with you. What does that prove? There are still people who believe the earth is flat too. There are millions of people who disagree with the abolition of slavery. These people are societies dregs and exist merely to serve as a warning to our children. “Stay in school kids or you just might end up a broken, out of couch, uneducated and proud misfit like Rick et al”.

P.S… Don’t use the word science in your messages when you openly ignore the vast neuroscientific evidence for gender dysphoria. It just makes you look extra hilarious.

Obviously there is neuroscientific evidence, these people are suffering from a real problem. You can look in the brain of an extremely depressed person and see that certain chemicals are very low.

The difference between the 2 is that society is OK with scientists researching how to cure depression, but it is no longer acceptable to research how to cure or treat people suffering from the transgender delusion. That is a recent development of the last 25-30 years.

Rick, if you have “neuroscientific” evidence, please show it. So far you have unsupported claims. Your comparison to depression is quite lacking, because you’re assuming that suppression is treatment. You’re assuming that had Leelah acted like a boy, she wouldn’t have comitted suicide. It’s precisely the opposite. She was not allowed to receive her treatment, which was conforming to her gender expression and died. To go along with your depression analogy, this is like if we denied the antidepressants to a person who needed them. According to a list of 28 studies, 21 had conclusive evidence that transitioning medically (which is what Leelah would have wanted) significantly improved life for transgender people. So, to conclude, scientists have researched how to cure dysphoria. They’ve found it. You’re the person who is stopping it and getting people killed. There is blood on your hands.

All too often it’s the ignotant people are the most secure in their beliefs, Rick.

To be as secure in your beliefs as you are despite your own admission that you are uneducated on the subject – just about sums up the problem with you and your elk.

As long as you accept, as you do, that you are speaking from a position of uneducated ignorance… then I’m content. I’m not here to change the mind of a bigot. I’m here merely to explain why you’re talking nonsense. As it happens you saved me the time by admitting you were uneducated and haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.

Now you seem to be quite educated in biology. And you are absolutely right about that! If you have a Y gene, you are biologically a boy, if you have two X genes you are biologically a girl! Happy to see you went to 7th grade!

But when it comes to Psychology, you are an absolute moron. You have no bearing on feelings or anything even remotely close to how the human mind should actually work. All you know (or at least what you have shown us) is how your personal twisted mind works.

You know how people today look at those who talk about the “good old days” of the African Slave Trade, when the poor ignorant negroes were forced to taken from their homes, and forced to worship Jesus “for their own good”?

Connor, actually there are plenty of you who look at me and make that connection now. I’m fine with this. I’m very comfortable in my belief, and this particular event hasn’t done anything to change that.

While I won’t remember your words in 30 years, you will continue to come across people with beliefs just like mine. It will take more than 30 years to convince society that a boy can actually be a girl, if he really really wants to, if indeed it is ever possible to convince society as a whole. I’m young enough that I hope to see if this is true in 30 years.

A mother is mourning the loss of her child. That is the main point of this post. That is a fact. And she is grieving that she lost her child to an illness that she (most likely) didn’t know her child had. A young person saw no other path other than suicide. That speaks to at least some degree of mental instability. The reasons and validity of that instability became background noise as soon as that child stepped in front of on-coming traffic. And now a mother has to live the rest of her life with a gnawing at her heart and her soul that someone who hasn’t had a personal experience with suicide can understand.
It pains me to know a mother and father had to bury their child. It pains me that this child, this gift of life from God, felt so alone that suicide was even a choice.

The problem is that her parents are mourning the loss of their 3 year old son. When Joshua turned 4, he began to develop feelings that are not normal for a boy, and from that moment on was no longer a boy. And the problem is they still refuse to acknowledge who she was.

So they can mourn the loss of their son, go ahead. They can find Joshua’s baby pictures and bury those.

But as long as her headstone says “Joshua” they are essentially pissing on her grave. As long as they call her “him”, they are refusing to acknowledge that they did anything wrong. They refuse to acknowledge the fact that they killed her. If they repent, then I would gladly embrace them and mourn with them. But if they continue the thought that they are innocent, then they do not deserve forgiveness.

I find it interesting that you find yourself appropriate to criticize the idea of a transgender person without knowing much about it. I love how you all are judging Leelah despite only knowing the parents’, mainly the mother’s motive.

Leelah’s suicide note states that when she found out at the age of 14 of the term and idea “transgender”, she felt relief knowing that what she’d felt for 10 years wasn’t limited to her. To reiterate, she’d felt like a girl since she was 4 years old. You people talk about perversion yet you don’t spend the time to evaluate whether Leelah was actually perverted. Was she taking advantage of people sexually? Was she committing immoral acts with animals or beings that couldn’t consent? No, she needed to be a girl. Not wanted to be, needed to be. Statistics show that trans people suffer less depression and feel happier after transition. Most trans people that don’t transition die of suicide.

The LGBT doesn’t need Leelah as a martyr. They already have too many dead people. Leelah just resonates because without her tumblr, she would die falsely remembered. But you know what? There’s no loss that devastates people as harshly as repeated loss. There’s nothing more frustrating than constantly hearing that “these people are mentally unstable”. You know what else was seen as mental instability? Protestantism. Christianity.

Also, where in the bible says that there only have to be two genders, or that being transgender is wrong?

Carla Alcorn does have one argument right: God does not make mistakes. God gave Leelah the body and mind she did. God made her a woman and gave her a different road to get there. People make mistakes, and her mistake of shunning her daughter will likely haunt her forever. I hope she never forgets the pain of that mistake. Too many people have died to grieve with her.

For anyone who has had teens know for a fact how things can get crazy at time it’s not easy you want to do what’s right it’s a learning curve parent s are not perfect and children do not come with book . Children can be hard we all don’t live in there house to say who s right and-who s wrong if this child was born with a penis then god made him a boy . Nature it’s self shows us . Romans 1:26-32 bible talks about it is unnatural for you to like the same sex . In thee end I think we’re missing the point this man is going to spend eternity in hell , and his parents wanted to avoid this at all cost . Parents do the best they can be if he would of wait until he was 18 he could of made any choice he wanted . Then the parents wouldn’t not be reliable and others would not enable to say it’s the parents fault . People shod take responsibility for there own actions , and if in this situation with boy had problems why wasn’t he asking for help from school . Or other places . Please don’t just look at parents .at 18 who’s going to be at fault then his parents . When r they off the hook , only bye parents know what really happend and they are the ones that are going to sleep or not sleep according yo how much they have done I say prayers go out to all involed it’s in Gods hands now pray from this point on that we do our best and make the right choices keep god in our lives and we will be happy

“If a boy was born with a penis then he was made a boy” unless that person feels trapped and uncomfortable with their body , or if they genuinely don’t feel like the mirror reflects what they see. Also, have you ever dyed your hair? According to your logic, a blonde is born blonde and nothing can change that.

Had Leelah been respected in her identity, it wouldn’t be “unnatural”. It’s a learning curve, yeah, but isolating them socially because they don’t agree with you isn’t “learning curve”, it’s abusive.

I love how you appeal to nature when sea horses have the males get pregnant, hyena females get blow jobs, horses sometimes don’t stud because they like boys, and dogs have sex with literally anything.

I will pray, for people like you to open your eyes and stop being judgmental. I will pray so that god makes you say that adherence to a god of hate will bring more cases like these.

The media is portraying Carla as a religious bully who imprisoned her son with intolerance “~

but she was not tolerant of her son’s gender issues, and the media is running with the story FROM the child’s OWN WORDS, on how they felt. You don’t help a transgendered person by taking their computer and phone away? How about instead of relying on outdated religious beliefs actually embrace real factual science? ” You can claim that YOUR religion is the truth, but how many others of different religions feel the exact same way. If you would have been born in a different country, you could easily been that country’s majority religion. Our religion has more to do with geography. When your religion has you deny basic science, facts and rational thinking…there is an issue. And it causes all kinds of horrors in society.

See gender is a social construct. There is no true way to dress/behave like a female nor male. At one point, high heels were shoes males wore. At one point cheerleading was a sport for males to participate. See these social constructs change with time. Gender and biological sex are not the same concept. Biological sex is based on chromosomes. Just as people can be born intersex, people can be born with the mind and heart of a different biological sex than they have. It’s not a mental illness…. it is a real thing. Just like many people are born with certain defects. The thing is, it’s really hard in this society to be born with any “defect” because we are not very tolerant people. And when you throw in certain religious beliefs that deny basic science…making certain people feel like there is something wrong with them. Instead of being tolerant we choose to believe in a book that was authored by many different people years and years ago, who didn’t even know where the sun went at night. People would rather believe in supernatural magic because they are told if they don’t God will burn you in hell for eternity.

“persecuted for her faith. That is the real injustice.” ~

that’s the real injustice? How about her son dying because of her religious beliefs… umm that is the real injustice. The real injustice is taking moral advice from a book that was written in a primitive time when people thought mental illness wasn’t an illness but people were possessed by demons. A book where incest, rape and slavery are ok, but hey don’t eat shellfish because that’s the real abomination.

One day maybe there will be enough scientific evidence that our society will no longer be able to deny basic truths, and there will be true equality and tolerance.

Sometimes it doesn’t pay to be a wordy woman. One should not try to live life from a 1500 year old book, unless they have rails around the roof. Human intellect of 1500 years ago has no place controlling or judging how humans exist today. Religion is a wonderful thing, when you appreciate it for what it is. The digital breadcrumbs left by Leelah these past few months leading up to the heartfelt suicide note tell a child’s version of events that relate almost verbatim to 100’s of thousands of transgender people and their families. While Doug and Carla didn’t ask God for a transgender child and had no clue how to deal with it. Leelah didn’t ask God to be transgender either. You know why? She just was! By the chemistry of her being born and interacting with the world, she naturally found out through experiencing life, she was transgender. She also found out from her parents and others what it means to be transgender. Leelah was not a sin, she was not broken or defective, she did not need converting, she was not a biblical abomination Christians should learn to tolerate, she was simply a transgender woman that wanted to be loved and make everyone proud of her. Doug and Carla’s words and behaviors throughout this horrific event speak VOLUMES about how they care about themselves and their religious beliefs. Leelah was not the first transgender to experience suicide, but what a wonderful world this would be if she were the last. It has taken a very long time, but society as a whole has finally made real progress regarding the quality of life for transgender people and their families. I am very religious and respect my Holy Bible for what it is and I pray religions will take the right steps moving forward and use religion to spread good will and share God’s love. Take time to learn about Transgender people, then you really will be serving God. http://www.glaad.org/blog/reallivetransadult-turns-tragedy-solidarity

In addition: Society needs to make it just as easy for family, friends and transgender people to exist and live their life as it is for anyone else, including Christians. We can make it easier to be the parent, sibling or relative of transgender people by removing all these negatives that exist regarding transgender people. Making life easier for transgender people is a win, win for everyone. Parents, siblings, relatives and loved ones can interact and enhance the quality of life of a transgender person, showing them with love, while the transgender person proudly reciprocates. Wait just a minute…. That is the way family life has always suppose to have been.

Transgender people don’t want to be a problem, a source of discomfort, be the butt of a joke, be something people are ashamed off or humiliated by, do you? They want to be the solution, participate confidently and make everyone around them proud to be with them. Do you find anything wrong with that? Help make things positive regarding transgender people so parents and children like Doug, Carla and Leelah don’t end up in this situation again. Take a cue from Deacon Ray Dever: http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/lgbtq-children-in-catholic-families-a-deacons-view-of-holy-family-sunday/

I definitely have my opinions to the right and wrong of the issue but I also wonder why so called “tolerant” people are always the ones to use such profanity. Amazing, we “intolerants” appear to be a little more respectful of your person if not your beliefs than the other way around. You all are the ones spewing hate and judgement.

I find it much much more enlightening that the people here who shout loudest against Leelahs gender dysphoria are the people who admit to being uneducated on the subject. Does thsg not tell us something?

Maybe if these wilfully uneducated people didn’t speak with such authority about things they know nothing about… their ignorant intellectually vapid comments wouldn’t be so offensive, and the reactions to them wouldn’t be so hostile.

I don’t know many reasonable people who wouldn’t react with hostility to the likes of Rick who wants to label an innocent dead girl as a pervert. And in the same message admits he is uneducated on the subject.

They’re one to use profanity because they probably know someone who has died or wanted to die because of it.

Not only that, but opinions like these can get people killed. Our words can only hurt your feelings. Your side’s actions got a young woman killed. Reacting politely isn’t a possibility for some people.

I thought one comment I noticed was pretty interesting. It suggested that if a person was a blonde and dyed their hair brunette, they were no longer blonde. And then ridiculed others for thinking the person was. What is interesting is that is exactly what this hair-dyed person is. Otherwise, she wouldn’t have to keep dying her hair. Her roots wouldn’t show. She would just become brunette.

To be honest, I think major issues on this whole front are being missed. I’ve tried to highlight some of them in a parable on my blog.

The whole point for the hair dye hypothetical was this: we have the means to change our bodies to fit our perceptions of ourselves. So why not use them? If dyeing your hair improves your self esteem, then by all means. Yet people oppose Leelah’s dream of modifying her body to fit her idea of herself simply because she wasn’t born that way. By that logic, people shouldn’t dye their hair. Yet they have no issue with that.

So, a blonde dyes her hair because she perceives herself as a brunette?

However, I appreciate your approach in this comment more than most. At least you admit this person wasn’t born a female.

I often think there is a lot of double talk in all of these gender identity and sexual preference discussions. Folks want to talk about people being born a certain way as if that means they should get to pursue some behavior or express some feeling without limitation. It’s as if they think making it a matter of birth demands permission. But at the heart that is merely an attempt at justifying that people are allowed to do what they want. I very much appreciate those who simply admit that they believe people should get to do what they want, instead of trying to manipulate me with a fallacious emotional argument about birth status.

It’s an imperfect comparison, the hair dye thing. But my point remains the same.

And I’m not entirely sure what your point is. Are you in favor of Leelah’s gender identity or are you supporting Carla? Do you only support trans people who do it because they want and not because of their gender identity perception?

I will try to explain what I see as an emotionally based fallacious argument in this whole gender identity discussion (the same fallacy is present in the sexual preference arguments).

Why does anyone on this thread believe Joshua was actually Leelah? Because he was a female trapped in a male body? How does anyone know that? Because it’s in the journals? Was there a test for that? Someone on this thread said something about “scientific facts.” What is the scientific fact on this? Can we do a blood test? A hormone levels test? The only scientific test I know that says anything about gender is the genitalia test.

So what is the real issue here? A person feels something. This is a very subjective test at best. After all, feelings are fickle and often change. The only actual test on this is the internal desire of a person. Perhaps Joshua desired to be Leelah. There is no scientific fact or test that says he actually was Leelah. There is only his personal desire.

My point is simply this. I wish people would quit clouding this discussion with the emotionally fallacious argument that says because he wanted something so badly that it was somehow a scientific fact of his birth that must now be pursued without anyone disagreeing. The fallacy here is trying to act like this is an argue of science from birth instead of what it really is an emotionally based argument. There is nothing in science that says Joshua was Leelah from birth. But some want us to believe this is about becoming who he was for real because that is a really heart tugging emotional argument. But that is all it is. It is a really heart tugging emotional argument. And sometimes emotional arguments are simply false.

The only true point of discussion on this is whether or not everyone should get to do whatever they feel very strongly about.

While I disagree with them, I appreciate people who are honest enough to say that the issue here is not about trying to support someone in the way they were “really” born (despite how it looked like they were born), but is about letting individuals have the freedom to do whatever it is they want and feel. The question is not about letting people become what they were born to be. The only scientific idea we have about that is looking at their genitalia. The question is can someone do something simply because they feel very strongly about it? We actually all say no to that question at some point. The question is where each of us believe the limits are and what is the standard. Some of us believe the standard should be found internally and others believe there is an external standard.

So, my point is I don’t mind the discussion. I just wish we would discuss the real issue instead of trying to cloud the discussion with a fallacious but emotionally based argument.

Excellent point. And isn’t that where most teenagers are? On an emotional roller coaster. Some have a more tumultuous ride than others, but the teen years can be filled with an array of emotions/feelings and it is not always a time of good decisions. Its a time where they need guidance.

I believe that someone can do something that they feel very strongly about as long as it does not hurt somebody else. What Leelah wanted to do wouldn’t have hurt anyone. And we do have evidence that’s not emotional. It’s in the suicide and depression rate for trans people who haven’t transitioned.

In the link I posted, you can find that the majority of the studies show that people who felt transgender felt that the transition were a massive improvement on their dysphoria. While this is still on an emotional argument, the evidence is that the emotions improved, which can be measured.

And what’s the real issue then?

Also, why does trans people have to justify their existence and wishes to you and others? Why does it have to work that way? Before you say that it “isn’t about justifying their existence”, know that your whole post is that “trans people shouldn’t transition because there’s no evidence that isn’t emotional”, that argument boils down to “they shouldn’t do the thing if they don’t justify the thing to me and everyone else”. Why do you or other people have to okay it if it doesn’t affect them? And who makes others able to judge trans people’s need to transition if most of said people don’t know much about trans people’s situations?

My point is not about justifying a position to me. I simply am pointing out that I appreciate folks who admit that the real argument is not “I was born like this on the inside so I should get to behave this way.” The real argument is, “I want to do this really badly so I should get to behave this way.”

Of course, I don’t believe anyone has to justify anything to me. I do believe we will all have to stand before God. I know that not everyone commenting on this thread believes that. I also know that not everyone on this thread who believes that believes the same standard for that day.

However, I believe it would be completely unloving for me not to tell people about it. You can call me crazy. I’m okay with that. But I do believe there is a God who gets to tell us how to live our lives. I do believe He has revealed Himself to us through the Bible. And I do not believe that transgender living fits within His revelation. You may believe differently. I’d be happy to discuss with anyone why I believe He exists and the Bible is from Him and then discuss how what it says applies to this situation. I could be wrong on any of it.

Of course, it seems to me that there are two options. If I’m right, then you can draw the conclusions. If I’m wrong and God doesn’t exist, then we are all allowed to believe what we want and nobody should be judging me for what I believe about this.

I appreciate the thinking that it only affects me and not other people being part of why this particular desire should be allowed. However, that doesn’t change the fundamental basis of this whole discussion still being, “I want something badly, I should be able to have it.”

Again, my only purpose in this discussion is to make sure we all see what we are really arguing about. When folks argue that a person with male genitalia was really born a female, they are not producing biological evidence of such an occurrence. They aren’t producing blood tests, DNA tests, chromosomal evidence, or brain scans. What they are producing is the strong desires of a person as evidenced by their own verbal or written testimony. But that is all the evidence that is being produced. They claim a person was born “differently gendered” than their genitalia suggests because of their strong personal desires. The whole argument about “born this way” in the discussions about gender identity and sexual preference is a smoke screen. It simply hasn’t been proven and I don’t think can.

In fact, there are plenty of folks who have recognized the precarious position of the “born this way” defense. They have recognized that to shout from the rooftops that people should be allowed to pursue a certain course because they were “born this way” opens the door for the assessment of birth defect. After all, if a person is born with a hole in his heart, he has a birth defect that needs to be repaired. If a person is born with an extra finger or arm, it is a birth defect that needs to be repaired. And so, if a female is born with a penis or a male with a vagina, it is a birth defect that needs to be repaired. The question of course is which part is the birth defect? Is it having the wrong genitalia or having the wrong internal feeling? I imagine that most people who support transgender living and same gender sexual preferences will balk at this when they realize what their argument actually says. In fact, I have read (though I don’t have these statements in my files to reference here) from those on the extreme left of these issues that they don’t like these “born this way” arguments for this very reason.

What is the real issue? The real issue is should every individual get to do what they feel strongly? My answer is no. Actually, I imagine your answer is no also. But we have different limits. Clearly, you believe if a desire doesn’t impact anyone else, you think that is a standard that allows us to pursue it. While I think there may be a place for that as the standard, I also think it is very subjective. We can easily say that my desire doesn’t impact others and be completely blinded to how it does. For instance, many thieves justify their behavior because they think that others have so much having some taken won’t really impact them. You and I both realize how ridiculous that is, but we should be able to see from this that when I’m blinded by my own desires, my reasoning on how I’m impacting others is not always clear.

Further, what if something impacts an individual so negatively that it doesn’t matter how it impacts others? Again, I recognize that not everyone will accept the standard I live by. But Jesus said, “For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?” Additionally, He said, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it.” The point being that we all have desires and goals that will lead us away from God. We must learn to tell those desires no. And we must learn to deny them whether or not they impact others.

Our culture, however, increasingly makes our desires the revelation of God. The argument goes like this.

1) I really, really desire something.
2) I think I’ve really, really desired this for as long as I can remember.
3) I must have been born this way.
4) If I was born this way, God must have made me this way.
5) Since God made me this way, He must be revealing to the whole world that this behavior is right.

I disagree with this. I believe the Bible is God’s revelation. Again, I know many disagree and I’m willing to discuss this with anyone. And I’m willing to discuss the differing interpretations on these issues with anyone.

You provide a hypothetical of thievery, but that’s a flawed analogy. Since when would Leelah or another trans person’s actions to their own body affect anyone else? To make your thievery analogy/hypothetical more accurate, it would be that you can’t steal from yourself. And how would Leelah or another person affirming their gender be negative? You’ve shown no evidence as to how it could be negative. Here is evidence that transitioning is overwhelmingly positive:
List of Studies: http://transascity.org/quality-of-life-in-treated-transsexuals/

And I see where you’re coming from on the “Born this way defense”. However, you’ve fallen trap to the “slippery slope” fallacy. And I agree, you shouldn’t deny someone who has a faulty heart treatment if they were born that way. You also shouldn’t isolate someone suffering from dysphoria and try to force them into an antiquated, kindergarten-level biological role.

Now we are just down to repeating ourselves. As I said earlier, I will consider your links. I haven’t had opportunity to read them yet.

I will point this out. I believe the presence of a penis or a vagina is scientific and biological evidence regarding someone’s gender. The burden of proof is not on those of us who claim gender is based on genitalia to prove nothing internally changes that. The burden of proof is on you to provide some kind of evidence that says gender should actually be based on something other than genitalia. I see that you have posted links. As I said, I will consider them. But please do not assume that the mere posting of links is proof of your point. Further, it has been my experience that these kinds of studies usually discover what they set out to discover (btw: that is true on both sides).

I provided my point about the Bible earlier. You didn’t argue with it, you simply said we couldn’t trust the Bible and that led us into a different discussion. I don’t need to provide a Bible verse that says “transgender doesn’t exist.” As I pointed out, the entire Bible speaks of men and women and that’s it. The Bible did not have this relatively recent concept of gender identity different from genitalia. Nobody did, until just a few years ago.

It seems your interpretation of my post is different than I intended. I wasn’t expressing exasperation with presenting links. In fact, I said I would consider them. I am pointing out, however, that we are down to repeating ourselves.

And I think we are. It seems to me we’ve gotten to the social media equivalent of “No it’s not.” “Yes it is.” “No it’s not.” “Yes it is.”

I don’t know how the blog is going to format this reply. It may set it up ahead of my earlier comment. In which case, please make sure to scroll down to that one first.

In case you think my statement about potentially classing this whole thing as a “birth defect” is too far afield, I just noticed that “Anonymous” somewhere in this thread wrote the following: “Her body crafting her very own child almost like a machine- each and every detail given special attention her see the thing about machines every once in awhile there are errors. The brain of a daughter body, of a son.”

And that is the point. If this is about being born mentally different from the body, then it will be classed an “error” or birth defect.

Just to be clear, you are willing to say that your transgender issue is a birth defect? That your birth situation was an error of the machine? And because you were born with a defect you should get to live differently than your genitalia suggests and even have that genitalia changed?

Not trying to challenge here, just trying to clarify that you are saying what it sounds to me like I think you are saying.

If I’m understanding you correctly, would you make the same assertion for same gender attraction, that it is a birth defect?

Alright, you’ve talked about having no scientific evidence but you haven’t provided any to suggest the contrary. And yes, I do agree that gender dysphoria is a birth defect, but the issue is how we wish to have it treated. If the mind does not match the body, then change the body. You want evidence that it’s the right treatment? Look at Leelah’s case. If you have evidence that transitioning would harm the person in this realm, then show it.

You never justified your biblical justification with a biblical verse you would use to say that transgender people don’t exist. The thieving analogy is also a bit broken, because you can’t steal from yourself. You can’t hurt anyone else if what you’re doing is not hurting your own body.

Here is a bit from Slate on the biology side of transgender people:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/06/national_review_laverne_cox_story_the_science_of_sex_and_transgenderism.html

“Grown-up science has some things to say about that, too. A number of studies have suggested that there may be a biological explanation for transgender identities. The androgen receptor known as NR3C4 plays a critical role in the development of primary and secondary male sex characteristics, and one study found that male-to-female transgender people have longer repetitions of the gene for that receptor, which reduced its effectiveness at binding testosterone. That study concluded: “There is a likely genetic component to transsexualism.”

According to another study, a genetic variant of the enzyme CYP17, which influences the sex hormones progesterone and pregnenolone, can be linked to people with female-to-male transgender identities. That study concluded that CYP17 is a “candidate gene” of female-to-male transgender identities. Male-to-female transgender identities have also been linked to prenatal androgen exposure.

The science goes on and on. The most important sex organ, as they say, is the brain, and studies have found measurable differences in transgender brains. One study of the stria terminalis, a region of the brain that influences sex responses and sexual behavior, found that male-to-female transgender people had a female-sized stria terminalis. A follow-up study found that in male-to-female people, even ones who had never gone through a course of hormone therapy, the number of neurons in the stria terminalis was equivalent to the number in women. The neuron counts in female-to-male individuals were consistent with those in men.

In other words, biology suggests that sex is not a subjective feeling or a “delusion,” but rather a matter of genetics, hormone exposure, brain composition, and any number of unknown variables, and that sex can’t be neatly divided into two categories. Williamson’s article wasn’t merely cruel and politically incorrect—it was scientifically incorrect.”

I am interested in the science of this and will consider the link you have provided. Thank you.

BTW: I have not given a Bible verse that says transgender people do not exist because, of course, there is no verse that says that. The reason there is no verse that says that is because the idea of gender identity is a new worldview. That simply wasn’t part of the biblical worldview. In that time, folks recognized what I have been suggesting. That men existed and women existed. You knew you were a man because you had a penis. You knew you were a woman because you had a vagina. There was instruction on how both roles were filled. No doubt, people had desires to be involved in all manner of activities, dress, etc. but that was considered behavior not identity.

It is only the relatively recent past that internal feeling has been elevated to the status of determining an identity. Therefore, there was no need to mention transgender in the Bible because it was understood to be an issue of behavior not identity.

Let’s face it. I’m going to be biased on this one and pick out all the manly stuff. So if you want me to see how what He said and did is more womanly, you’re probably going to have to point that out to me.

BTW: I capitalize “He” not to stress His maleness, but because it has always been my habit to capitalize pronouns that refer to deity. And I, of course, believe Jesus is deity.

My explanation about Jesus’s deity was not meant to accuse you of questioning it but simply an explanation of my use of capitalization for the pronouns so as not to be offensive. When reading comments through this thread, people purposefully capitalized things to make certain emphases that were offensive back and forth.

I still, however, would like to know what causes you to suggest Jesus was a woman in a man’s body. As I said, I’m going to be biased, so you’ll need to point it out to me.

This, to me, highlights one of the problems I have with this whole discussion. In one venue, I’m told that it is wrong to put men and women in boxes that they have to act a certain way. If a man cries and I call him a “girl” for it, I’m in trouble because men are allowed to cry. If a woman takes charge in a business meeting and I say she’s trying to put her big boy pants on, I would get in trouble. But if you see Jesus weep, and say, “He must be a female in a male’s body,” that’s okay.

A person doesn’t have to be a woman to be compassionate. A person doesn’t have to be a man to be harsh. A person doesn’t have to be a woman love children. A person doesn’t have to be a man to be cold and distant to them.

This is part of what bothers me. What really is the standard for someone claiming they are really a different gender than their genitalia says? Is there some list of traits and once I have so many of them I’m really the opposite gender? If I prefer clothes that are in our culture are considered opposite gender clothes does that automatically make me that gender instead? What actually makes this determination? Should I avoid being compassionate because that will mean I’m actually female? Should I be mean to the kids around me because being nice to them is only for women?

I’m not simply trying to be argumentative here. I’m trying to help you see my struggle with this whole discussion.

I can’t give exact information because I’m not sure which version of the bible you have, and I’d rather not make uninformed assumptions.

My point is that the various modern versions of the Bible are generally texts from the late middle ages (such as the case with the King James Version). There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s important to understand that at that point, they were most likely playing a millennial game of “telephone”: that is, having the message slowly distorted over time.

That’s why following a book that was translated several times, edited and re-edited yet treated as infallible from day one to be a little bit foolish. I agree that the word of god is in there. But it’s not in the details, it’s in the general message: that there is hope in an oft cruel world.

So why religiously worship parts of Leviticus if they do not help us save our fellow man? And why do we only pick Leviticus and not the Song of Songs?

I’m not an atheist. I’m all for spirituality, but that spirituality has to help people. When we use it to tear down our fellow man not only in the next life (if there is one), but in this present life, what are we really doing? Since when does making a hell on earth correspond to the message of love by Jesus or any messenger sent on down?

Certainly, there are always issues of translation at any level for any document. And yet, that is the case with all ancient literature. The evidence, however, demonstrates we are not playing a millennial game of telephone as gets suggested. Modern translations are not based on slightly less modern translations which were based on even less modern translations which were based on even less modern and so on. They are based on the earliest manuscript evidence possible. That is like playing the telephone game, but each new person getting to hear from the second person in the chain as well as many of the people later in the chain, and not merely the person right before them.

We have significantly more early manuscripts for the New Testament and at a significantly closer chronological proximity to the originals than any other piece of ancient literature. If we tossed out the New Testament as a reliable document and as reliably translated and brought forth to modern day, we’d have to toss out every other piece of ancient literature we have. Nothing comes remotely close to being as well attested as the New Testament.

Additionally, we have not only the largest number with closest proximity, we have early translations that we can compare to each other. And more than that we have the writings of those who commented on and used these Scriptures to govern their lives and talked about them in their letters in the second century. The claim is often made that if we lost all manuscripts for the New Testament itself, we could reformulate it and put it back together simply by taking the quotes and references from the “patristics” in those early centuries.

It is simply not true that the New Testament as presented today is unreliable because it was curated in the 1500s. Is it problem free? Of course not. As Jesus was deity in human flesh and therefore dealt with the problems of human flesh (temptation, sickness, growing pains), the Scripture are God’s inspired Word in a human medium. It will deal with those problems. However, the problems are not so bad as to be able to dismiss it at any level, either in big picture or in details.

While the Old Testament is not at exactly the same level as the New, we actually have very good evidence that it has not been changed again and again and again as well when we consider the strident measures the Jews took when preserving their Scriptures. It may be hard for our culture to grasp anyone holding any text with such honor, but when you have a group of people completely certain that they hold the very words of their God in their hands, they actually do take significant care to preserve what was originally there. They don’t play a telephone game where someone whispers in their ear and they just make the best of it, they beg them to speak loudly and clearly and then to repeat themselves again and again to make sure they are writing down word for word what was said before they pass it on to the next person and the next person does the exact same thing.

Further, very few people (with the exception of some who are often classified as “King James Only”) believe the translation process itself was inspired. Usually the definitions given are that in the original it is the inspired Word of God. Therefore, most continue to mine the earliest manuscripts and look for more manuscripts that will help us. And the evidence is pretty overwhelming that what we have today is what was had during the early centuries.

And, except for some outlier translations written with major agendas by cultic groups (e.g. The New World Translation produced by the Jehoveh’s Witnesses) or some produced by a single individual (e.g. The Message Bible) who almost can’t help but have a special agendas, at least in some passages, the translations themselves do not differ that greatly from one another. They differ in style, expression, and idiom, but rarely in content.

Finally, there is the matter of faith. If God really did communicate with His World through a message He had written down, can we have faith that He is going to preserve it in a way that will guide us? Or will He actually allow it to get so muddled that it can be of no objective use to anyone? I simply don’t think we can revere the Bible as a nice book with some good messages. It either is from God or it isn’t. It may be a treacherous book filled with awful lies. Or it may be an insane book filled with crazy ideas. Or it is the Word of God that we need to discover, study, and live by. But it is not a precursor to modern self-help books that we can read at our leisure, for our own personal enjoyment, adopting the bits we like and already agree with while discarding the bits that don’t conform to what we want to hear.

Here you’ll find a list of 28 studies which look at the question, “Does transitioning help the quality of life of transgender people?”. Quality of life is heavily defined via suicide rate, as well as different types of transgender people. The results are as follows:

21 out of 28 of the studies find that transitioning helps improve quality of life. Three studies find that transitioning does not improve quality of life, while four are ambiguous or not conclusive.

Going back to theology, which you have used: why would god give us a people and expect us to not help them? This is the way to help them, yet why do you argue against that? You saw what it did to the Alcorns: it robbed them of a daughter. How many more people have to stroll up to St. Peter before you re-evaluate your position?

The media isn’t portraying HER life as filled with oppressive parents- it sounds like you didn’t do your research and most likely don’t know that she described all her oppressions in her suicide note that she posted on her tumblr blog (which her parents deleted). Also you said yourself that you know nothing on transgender problems, so please educate yourself before using the bible as justification for denying someone their identity. I’m a Christian as well, but it is absolutely unacceptable to deny someone the same acceptance because of how they identify or who they love and justify it with the bible. They are people. We are all people. It’s not your place to say how LEELAH felt, and it most definitely isn’t anyone’s place to say if she went to hell or if god loves her. I feel for her mother for losing a child, but I also hope that she realizes what her daughter wanted through this tragedy.

I named my son Joshua also. He is as straight as they get. Should I have subjected him to conversion theraphy hoping his gender identity would conform to what seemed normal to me? I just loved himfor who he is.

You’re completely missing the point. Just because a kid is named Joshua doesn’t mean that they should undergo gender confirmation therapy. This kid was born Joshua but she needed to be Leelah. She wanted to do something that would only directly affect her. She didn’t force anyone else’s body to comply with her ideas. Her parents actually did what you described.

Nnow nothing about trans issues? Then take it upon yourself to educate yourself. HER birth name is Joshua. But the name SHE chose is LEELAH. And all of HER life SHE was a GIRL trapped in a boy’s body. “They have used the loss to attack Christian, biblical family values.” Oh really? As a Christian, I know that something that is taught in the church is ACCEPTANCE. Where was Carla’s value on that? We are not angry she’s in mourning. We are angry because she thought her religion was more important than her DAUGHTER’S life. If you’ve seen LEEHLAH’S suicide note, SHE blames HER parents. The note is all over the internet, you can easily find it. LEELAH knew exactly who SHE was.

This is tragic. When something like this happens, it really bothers me and forces me to think how I would deal with my own children if this happened in our family. As a parent, there is no perfect answer. Could they have used a better approach? I’m sure they will forever play it over and over in their minds what they did wrong and what they could have done better. They had a biblical world view and for some commenting on this blog that is unacceptable. They were still his parents and did what they thought was best for their child. If you are a parent with any type of worldview then you know how extremely difficult the process of raising a child is. Also, I can see how difficult it is being a teenager. I was once a teenager who hated my parents and wanted to kill myself. I remember sitting in my room holding a gun to my head. It’s crazy now to think of it, but when you are that age things do seem hopeless and it is a very confusing time in life. There is no easy answer. Years later Jesus would become my hope, my answer. I wish this child would have continued to fight for life. Again, it’s just a tragedy.

Why are you disrespecting a dead child? Call Leelah what SHE wanted to be called, unless you have no compassion at all. They could have used a better approach by truly loving their child, not asking her “What are you going to do, f*** guys?” I wouldn’t call saying things like that a “biblical world view.” Berating your kid should should NEVER be considered what’s best for your child. If you truly wish Leelah had continued to fight for life, become a fighter for transgender and gay rights instead of referring to a dead child “him” even though that word probably hurt Leelah every time she heard it.

Carla Alcorn is a killer. The fact that she can’t respect LEELAH’S name and pronoun even after her death just goes to show that she cares more about the invented laws of an imaginary higher being than the life and identity of her own child. Fuck your article. Fuck your “beliefs” and fuck Carla Alcorn.

You have spoken only two truths: 1. a mother is grieving, and 2. she loved her son, Joshua.
The problem, however, is that she didn’t love her daughter, Leelah. I know she loved Joshua, for if she didn’t, she wouldn’t have gone to such an extent to change “him.” Being transgender is a hard life, so I understand that it’s possible that Carla didn’t want that for her child. What you and Carla fail to see is that this was not Leelah’s choice. It was not a phase, nor a cry for attention. It was Leelah’s reality. To think someone would choose such a hard life for themselves is magnificently ignorant.
Thank you for sharing your views, I hope the constructive criticism has helped you to open your eyes.
P.S. The God that I know loves everyone. Try arguing with that.

Carla and the other Alcorns who did not accept Leelah for who she was are idiots. She clearly loved you and you bullied her intil she commited suicide because it wasnt “normal” but in the end what isnt normal os your way of thinking. You are so narrow minded, and stubborn it led tp your daughters suicide, you are no better than the bullies at school that bully a kid until he or she dies, honestly ypu should be tried in court for that.

I say we all use a better hashtag than the one this asshole put at the end of this article i say we use
#FuckYouCarlaAlcorn
Or
#CarlaAlcornInJail

I am a progressive Christian with a daughter who is LGBT. I have minimally more sympathy for Carla Alcorn than most commenters here for 2 reasons: I know a lot of Christians so blinded by their church’s hateful interpretations of the Bible that they would do the same thing, and I know they THINK they love their children unconditionally. Brainwashing is powerful. Also, I am hesitant to vilify her bc I really don’t want these parents to break when they have three more children at home. They need to change simply for the sake of their remaining children. There is an opportunity being missed to show these parents that the LGBT community is one of love and acceptance, rather than the community & supporters reacting in grief to another lost spirit in a way that turns the Alcorns further away.

That being said, the writer of this blog clearly demonstrates why she “stands” with Carla bc she admits she knows nothing about transgender issues & didn’t even bother to look it up. What was especially poor taste was saying “Carla Alcorn has walked that road” and “I stand with Carla Alcorn” in reference to a child who in fact walked a road and DIED ON THE PAVEMENT on it bc of what her parents did to her. Good to know you would push your children in front of a truck too. That is the most literal interpretation of “throwing under the bus” I have certainly ever heard.

We don’t need to demonize her, but we do need to educate people like her– there are so many parents who have the power to help their kids thrive or drive them to suicide. Gender is more than external genitalia- men’s And women’s brains are physically different. Human beings come in infinite variety- that is how God makes them. I believe that Leelah was “wonderfully made” in God’s image, just as He intended. The tragedy is that lack of education makes people feel recognizing reality is not religious. Nothing could be further from the truth. God’s creation is more wonderful and complex than this child’s mother realized. 50% of transgender people die due to suicide. That’s important enough to make sure that we listen to Leelah’s plea that her death be used to educate others. Listening to her plea and fulfilling her last request isn’t wrong. It seems like this author is ignoring Leelah’s words and disrespecting her in many ways (including calling her a boy, lining up with those who drove this child to step in front of a semi truck– a hideous death that seemed less painful than life in her family). Of course this mother loved her child, but she helped drive her own child to suicide. It is kind of like a man who abuses his wife and still says he loves her. Yes, but in a troubled, confused way that caused unbearable pain. Love asks more of us than some people can give. In those cases tragedies happen.

Piss on the mother she didn’t give two shits about this kid for one she didn’t even have any pics of this child on her wall but yet she had them of her others and what mother would let their kid go for a morning walk at two am she is a she devil evil woman read the letter the poor child wrote the bitch was ashamed to say that was her child she tried to keep it out of her daily living and did everything in her power to make life harder on the child she wants to cry over now I hope.her heart hurts with shame for the rest of her life and she has nightmares for causing her child to kill themselve

As parents and human beings, the Alcorns should be ashamed of themselves. Although raised as in the Christian faith, I will not identify as Christian as long as bigoted, ignorant, simple minded idiots pervert the teachings of Christ. The Alcorns will forever live with the knowledge that their closed mindedness killed their child. They’ve made their own form of suffering. I hope they learn something from it.

From the moment Carla Alcorn saw the positive pregnancy test, she loved her child as only a Christian mother could. Meaning her love had nothing whatsoever to do with who her child actually was, but only the fantasy in her head of the perfect child in the perfect Christian family.

Their child didn’t fit the perfect mold, so they hid it from the world and kept trying to force it to be someone worthy of the unconditional love they had for the perfect fantasy child in their heads.

Poor, poor Carla Alcorn. You lost the son you didn’t have. You lost the daughter you refused to know. You killed your child by trying to “fix” it. Poor, poor, poor, poor thing.

You know, I don’t stand with Carla entirely, as I understand how difficult it must have been to go to Christian counseling to be “fixed”, but Leelah was awfully weak. Couldn’t she just wait out a few more years, until she was of age to take control of her life? Think how many millions of people did just that. I would not have responded as Carla did, even though I am a Christian mom of boys. However, anyone who deals with adversity in life usually ends up much stronger on the other side. This is how the vast majority of us deal with roadblocks and hard times. She was going through just that. She didn’t have to jump in front of a mack truck. That was cowardice. Carla shouldn’t have to take the guilt of that action for the rest of her life. That was Leelah’s choice. Yes, she had one.

Leelah was NOT weak. People with mental disorders (Leelah most definitely had depression) are not weak for seeking a way out when they can’t get help. Teenagers often don’t have the mental capability to see things long term and realize it will get better, because our minds are completely developed until the middle twenties. Not to mention that it’s best for transwomen to get started transitioning from as young of an age as possible due to changes that occur to the male body during puberty. It was Carla’s choice to ruin Leelah’s life and force her only option to be suicide. Carla SHOULD have to live with that guilt. No, Leelah did not have a choice after being verbally abused for years by the people she had to live with. You have NO CLUE how hard it is to be transgender, especially for someone as young as Leelah and with parents like hers. There’s a reason transgender teens have such a high suicide rate, and it isn’t because they’re cowards.

Hello, I am the person who previously named themselves “fuckyou” but i have calmed down a bit now.
Anyway, how about you educate yourself here. Here’s her suicide note:
“I have decided I’ve had enough. I’m never going to transition successfully, even when I move out. I’m never going to be happy with the way I look or sound. I’m never going to have enough friends to satisfy me. I’m never going to have enough love to satisfy me. I’m never going to find a man who loves me. I’m never going to be happy. Either I live the rest of my life as a lonely man who wishes he were a woman or I live my life as a lonelier woman who hates herself. There’s no winning. There’s no way out. I’m sad enough already, I don’t need my life to get any worse. People say “it gets better” but that isn’t true in my case. It gets worse. Each day I get worse. That’s the gist of it, that’s why I feel like killing myself. Sorry if that’s not a good enough reason for you, it’s good enough for me.”

Her parents damaged her beyond compare. And I don’t know how you could dare call her a coward. She felt things wouldn’t get better, that her parents had ruined her life forever. You think that just because millions of teens survived means that the ones who didn’t are cowards? You know what a lot of those teens had? People who helped. Parents helping them feel loved through their depression. Friends who told them they cared for them. If none of the above, they had random people on the internet who they talked to or gave them strength. And Leelah had those, until her parents ruined those too.

When she revealed that she was also attracted to males, her parents isolated her. They took her out of her school and enrolled her into an online one. They also revoked her access to social media. She had no friends at all.

So how could she see the light at the end of the tunnel when her parents covered her eyes?

Listen. I am not part of any agenda, nor am I using this tragedy for my own personal gain. What I see here is a child who was so close to the age of adulthood deprived of basic human rights as though she was something that the parents owned. Children are NOT property. Look to your faith. You cannot pick and choose parts of the bible that fit YOUR personal agenda. God loves all his children. If you believe he makes no mistakes, then Leelah’s gender identity crisis was no mistake. What if this was a test from God himself? What if this was a test to see if the parent’s would still love HER. They failed that test. A child is dead because she did not feel love. It does not matter if the parents thought that they loved their child. They did not show it in a way that made their child feel welcomed in this world. They are hurting right now and denying their role in this tragedy at the same time. They are not victims. They are using this tragedy to push their religious agenda. Please educate yourself. Once these parents can open their hearts and learn of their mistakes and truly grieve for their role in pushing a child to suicide…only then should they receive forgiveness. But not until that point. Not until they can call their lost child by the name that their child had chosen for herself.

A note to others writing for transgender rights: PLEASE still be polite. If you curse and use degrading language, you do not present yourself in a manner to be taken seriously.

Maybe she loved her son. But she sure as hell didn’t love or respect her child. Not enough, anyway. If she did, then she wouldn’t have desecrated Leelah’s grave and memory by calling her “Joshua” even after her death. If she loved her child, she should have respected her. If she loved her child, she should have accepted her. If she loved her child, she should’ve at least let her be who she wanted to be on her grave.

I’m sure they both loved their son, Joshua.
However, they didn’t love their DAUGHTER, Leelah.
It disgusts me that people continue to misgender her, even after death.
“I don’t know much about transgender issues. I don’t know anything about sexual re-identification.”
Then educate yourself on them before writing some shit like this.

What ever happened to God & Jesus loving everyone and everything? What ever happened to the golden rule we were all taught in kindergarten? Treat others the way you would want to be treated yourself! Everyone that follows Carla Alcorn should put their selves not in Carla’s shoes but in the shoes of a Transgender teenager. Imagine your family not excepting you because you are just being yourself. It’s good to follow your faith and belief, but there are situations where faith and belief shouldn’t be even considered. Leelah should have been able to make the choices she wanted to make and have been excepted either way. Mr. and Mrs. Alcorn should have parents, not followers of a faith that doesn’t believe everyone is equal

What ever happened to God & Jesus loving everyone and everything? What ever happened to the golden rule we were all taught in kindergarten? Treat others the way you would want to be treated yourself! Everyone that follows Carla Alcorn should put their selves not in Carla’s shoes but in the shoes of a Transgender teenager. Imagine your family not excepting you because you are just being yourself. It’s good to follow your faith and belief, but there are situations where faith and belief shouldn’t be even considered. Leelah should have been able to make the choices she wanted to make and have been excepted either way. Mr. and Mrs. Alcorn should have been parents, believing that their daughter would make good choices.

The fact that you keep referring to her as a “he” and “son” shows you didn’t understand the situation at all, even after all the pleading Leelah put in her suicide note. Please open your heart and accept people on their own terms instead of pushing your own views upon them; this is the only way to heal.

I absolutely think that it’s unfair that the LGBT community is so cruel to Leelah’s parents. It’s unfair that Carla is threatened with death and painted to be a terrible person. HOWEVER, there is NO excuse for what she did to her child.

Carla, meaning to or not, drove Leelah to suicide. It wasn’t her fault alone, but she helped. I don’t doubt that a mother loves her child, but part of that responsibility of having a child is to support them. To let them know you love them. To be there for them in those crazy days where all is dark, hopeless, depressing, and confusing. Carla shut her daughter in her room. Good person or not, she cut off Leelah from the rest of the world, caused her to suffer, and shattered her heart. Leelah’s DEAD, for the sake of everything!

I’m not saying Carla’s a bad person. I’m part of the LGBT group and I don’t believe that she’s a bad person. I just think she made the wrong choice. She thought she was standing with God or whatever but what she actually did was help drive God’s child to suicide, and that’s not ok. Neither is threatening her life, of course, but that doesn’t change anything. In Leelah’s death note on Tumblr (which I actually read before it was taken down), she only told us her side of the story, and she painted her parents to be monsters. Carla might not be a monster, but she shouldn’t have done what she did.

I wish I could contact Carla and give her a big hug. Tell her that I’m sorry for her loss. Despite her different belief, I’m sorry for her. She’s not a bad person. She thought she was doing what was right. She’s STILL calling Leelah her son, still calling her “Joshua” and misgendering him. I think that’s… That’s just… Cold. Bad. Terrible. I think it’s really cruel. But she was her mother, and she shouldn’t be treated like a demon for doing what she thought was best.

I know you probably hate me for my viewpoint, but the tragedy isn’t about Carla at all. It’s about Leelah. She died. Trans people have different brains. Leelah’s brain was a girl, scientifically, and her body was a boy. So yeah, she’s right. She had a son. But she’s wrong. She had a daughter. Depending on if you love people for their body or mind, I guess.

this is the saddest thing ive ever made myself read you misgender a girl who killed herself because of that very thing and stand by the mother who forced her daughter to try to change who she was, driving her to death
rest in peace leelah alcorn

I personally think that Carla shouldn’t have tried to force her child to be a perfect straight cisgender Christian boy, because that’s not who Leelah was. Leelah was transgender, she was gay, and she did not stand by her parents’ beliefs. Rest in power, Leelah. You’ll be missed.

This is incredibly biased. She was taken to conversion therapy, although it will never work. She is still female in the end. I’m terribly sorry that she had to go through all this, and I’m terribly sorry for her because her parents buried her in a suit and put the wrong name on her headstone.

I am not tied to religion, but I do understand the loss of this youthful spirit. I’m 16, and I believe that although Carla did not accept the fact that “Joshua” was in fact Leelah, it could possibly be because of lack of knowledge of the LGBT community. Nobody is perfect, and that is the simple reality, but please understand – and this goes for everyone – that gender identity is a natural thing, as is sexual orientation. Nobody is the enemy here, but unfortunately, the world is shrouded by an awful darkness because of war and terror stretching throughout the nation. Carla and Doug are not enemies, nor is Leelah.

Please, understand that if your child asks you for transition treatment, do not flat out refuse, but take the time to speak peacefully with your loved one. I know how hard it is to understand how your little girl identifying as someone you don’t know, as it is the same way my father looked at me after we found out about my anxiety and depression. You cannot “cure” being queer or another gender. Conversion Therapy is something I believe should be stopped, because you cannot simply try and push out the true identity of a human being, because it’s like trying to train a chihuahua to be a polar bear and grow thick, white fur – it’s impossible.

As a member of the LGBT community, I believe that it is unfair the way in which people have spoken out towards the heart-broken parents, but I think that what has happened to who they did not know as Leelah is awful and tragic.

Please, I cannot stress this enough: accept your kids for who they would like to be, and speak to them. As someone who identifies as something other than my biological sex, I wish that everyone grows to be accepting of their families, friends, and neighbours.

Parents MUST also learn what they do not know — read EVERYTHING before going off on your child, here’s an example, note the dates, as there is NO EXCUSE for parents not knowing this:

In-Womb Development of the Transsexual Brain, by Tamara Sheehan

— Nurture or Nature: What makes a Transsexual?

This is the big question that is faced by anyone who is or who knows a Transsexual. Because of a number of recent discoveries, the balance has been tipped toward nature.

There is now evidence that the “Gender Identity Dysphoria” (GID) has it’s roots in prenatal biology (nature) and not in psychology (nurture).

— New Discoveries Lean toward ‘Nature’.

What information about the brain has been newly discovered?

When and by whom was it found?

In 1994, Dr. David Crews, Ph.D. published a paper with his findings regarding animal sexuality.
He suggested that Transgender Behavior is shaped by embryonic sex hormones.

In animals, they caused the brain to sexually develop a gender identity opposite that of the body.
He suggested they could also influence the “Gender Identity” in humans.

In 1995, a team of brain researchers in the Netherlands (J.M. Zhou, M.A. Hofman, L.J. Gooren and D.F. Swaab) dissected and compared the autopsied brains of a number of transsexual, homosexual heterosexual men & women.

They found major differences between the Transsexual and non-Transsexual brains.

The part of the brain that they studies was a region of the hypothalamus found at the base of the brain.

It is called the ‘Central Subdivision of the Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis’.

They found that this part of the normal brain is 50% larger than the normal female brain.
Furthermore, it is 60% larger than the MtF Transsexual brain.

In other words, the male to female Transsexual brain was vastly different than the normal male brain and very much like the normal female brain.

They suggested that this may be part of the reason why MtF transsexuals often describe themselves as a woman trapped in a men’s bodies.

Of these, the Intersexuals are the group most closely related to Transsexuals.

In fact, they are probably more closely related than is generally recognized.
Intersexuals are people who used to be called ‘Hermaphrodites’.

They are persons who, physically possess, all, or parts of, both sexes.
Transsexuals are individuals whose brains are the sex opposite their bodies.

They have the ability, more or less, to experience both the male and female worlds.
One could define Transsexuals as “Mental (Brain) Hermaphrodites (Intersexuals)”
They are truly blessed by God as Gender Gifted.

Each Transsexual is like a splash of vibrant color in a world seemingly filled with only black & white. (Non-Transsexual males and females).

Goodness me, what a cunt you are. This girl took her life for a reason, a reason of not being loved and accepted for who she is. Nowhere in this bile-some drivel of a blog post is there any talk of what this young girl was going through, just selfish talk of what this ‘mother’ has lost. If those parents had an ounce of love for their ‘son’ they would’ve supported him in making the first moves into transitioning to become a woman.

This is just so hateful and repulsive. I can’t imagine any righteous god that would want followers like you. Promoting violence and hatred, spreading it across this good earth he/she/n/a created like a cancer. Wonder what four letter terrorist group that reminds me of. You and your followers are evil, sick, wicked people. Back when I believed in your god I would have never thought they would ever promote any view like yours. Who knows if there is an afterlife but if there is… I can’t imagine yours is going to be very nice. May God’s child Leelah rest in peace with her creator in Heaven.

.
Hi folks, this just in, Friday, June 9, 2017, a public editorial * from Deirdre Grimm, mother of trans gender Gavin Grimm, I offer it as severe contrast to Carla Acorn’s treatment of her trans gender child Leelah Alcorn ( I edited here for the mother-to-child discussion, see * for the entire editorial ):

“… When Gavin came out as his true self, I honestly
didn’t even know what it meant to be transgender.
I spent days and nights reading as much as I could.
I read a study that said some 50 percent of trans
gender teenagers had seriously considered suicide.
That was all I needed to know … As a parent, you
are terrified for your child’s safety … You don’t
expect the parents to be the bullies … Gavin wasn’t
looking to be on the front lines of a major civil
rights battle. But he had the courage to stand up —
because he knew deep down that it was right. His
bravery has made all of us better and stronger
people. My kid is truly awesome … This week, Gavin
will cross the stage at his high school graduation. I
will undoubtedly feel the same emotions that
mothers throughout the country with graduating
seniors will be feeling: pride, love, excitement, and
so much more. But I am also inspired. I’m inspired
by my son’s unyielding courage and determination …”

I read it again, and again, and I wish my own mother was as championing of me.

And I wish the beautiful tender soul of Leelah Alcorn were here to celebrate with us all.
__________

To be fair and honest,
None of us know how Carla treated her child. She has never given any interviews nor spoken publicly of the tragedy due to the fact that she and her family were terrorized by the pro-trans masses. She was demonized by a movement to put a face on their enemy. They do know know her. They do not know the family. They do not know of anything that happened in the privacy of this family.

— there are no “pro-trans” masses ( whatever “pro-trans” could possibly mean to you ),

— there is only equality for all under Constitutional law, a civil rights issue,

— any child terrorized and denied their Constitutional rights to self-identification and health care by their ignorant parents who are in denial needs to see their parents as “their enemy” as you say, and get out of the house to safety, and seek care through any agency that is recognizing, supporting, and protecting of that child,

— those were Leelah Alcorn’s final requests, that her life, and death, be added to the death toll of trans gender people, and mean something, read: