Fernando Alonso - Part II

I can imagine Fernando not paying too much atention to all these recent news about Hamilton, I can see him just training hard for the final races of the season, just like those videos of Rocky training hard just before the final fight

On a serious note, I am very positive, this is not an unknown position for Fernando. After his year in Mclaren, I bet it was very frustrating for him not having a fast car, and being out of contention for the title. But I think that it his second stint at renault did help him a lot to change the frustration into focus and how to extract the maximum out of a race weekend.

Now, he is not getting poles, he is not leading races, because of that, the strategies are not defensive ones. The position I don't trust Ferrari is when they are leading with a fast car and then the doubts and the mistakes appear. Right now, there are faster cars, and of course that is not good at all, but those cars are references, and I think that feeling of "chasing" is where Fernando and the team are more united as a team and comfortable.

They probably feel more responsability than pressure at this point. Mclaren and (most of the time) Red Bull are faster, but they are driving each weekend with more pressure everytime, cause if they get it wrong one more time, it could be game over for them.

I know I am probably looking the glass half full, but this year we have to win this thing!!! And if they can do it, the word "epic" will be the perfect one.

The Renault comparison is interesting for this reason; in other threads I am reading the heady optimism of Hamilton fans who think that "Mercedes" is a perfect team for Hamilton to go to because - wait for it - they won the WDC and CC as "Brawn in 2009!

The argument goes like this - "the team hasn't changed much in terms of personnel, so this must still be a wonderful team that hamilton can excel at..." - not sure how they are able to block the last 2 and a half years of pointlessness out of there minds - but here is the interesting part - Alonso moved to a "mid field team" right? Well - when he moved back to that team it was a single year away from having won a championship... even with Alonso all they could manage is 2 wins (one a cheat) and 5th in the WDC and 4th in the CC - the next year, Alonso didn't win a single race and finished 9th... oh - and 8th in the WDC.

An F1 career can't stand this sort of free-fall for long - fernando was fortunate to get to ferrari when he did. Lewis? All I can say is that I think that his fans, who are counting on an amazing season soon, based on a one off in 2009 under a different name... well - there's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?

Well, I guess that Brawn GP statistically are the greatest team of all time. They have a 100% success rate. They've won both championships in every season they competed.

There is a big difference here - Alonso left because he had too - there is NO WAY that McLaren were keeping him on after the mess of 2007 - so he had to suck it up and go back to Renault... (more about that in a sec). In Hamilton's case he had no real reason to leave McLaren. He's within shouting distance of the WDC this year and he's moving to a team where THAT won't be the case for a while.

The Renault comparison is interesting for this reason; in other threads I am reading the heady optimism of Hamilton fans who think that "Mercedes" is a perfect team for Hamilton to go to because - wait for it - they won the WDC and CC as "Brawn in 2009!

The argument goes like this - "the team hasn't changed much in terms of personnel, so this must still be a wonderful team that hamilton can excel at..." - not sure how they are able to block the last 2 and a half years of pointlessness out of there minds - but here is the interesting part - Alonso moved to a "mid field team" right? Well - when he moved back to that team it was a single year away from having won a championship... even with Alonso all they could manage is 2 wins (one a cheat) and 5th in the WDC and 4th in the CC - the next year, Alonso didn't win a single race and finished 9th... oh - and 8th in the WDC.

An F1 career can't stand this sort of free-fall for long - fernando was fortunate to get to ferrari when he did. Lewis? All I can say is that I think that his fans, who are counting on an amazing season soon, based on a one off in 2009 under a different name... well - there's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?

I think both moves have little similarities except for the fact that both drivers are leaving McLaren. When Alonso joined Renault in 2008 I think he was pretty sure he would get a Ferrari drive sooner than later, so it was an intermediate solution. Lewis is leaving to start a new career in a powerful team with (in theory) a lot of potential.

I think both moves have little similarities except for the fact that both drivers are leaving McLaren. When Alonso joined Renault in 2008 I think he was pretty sure he would get a Ferrari drive sooner than later, so it was an intermediate solution. Lewis is leaving to start a new career in a powerful team with (in theory) a lot of potential.

To be fair - you're right - the sort of comparison I made is always invidious because it's comparing apples to doorknobs, isn't it?

I'm really hopeful that Ferrari pick it up and Alonso can be a bit more competitive in the last 6 races.

However.

I fully expect Vettel or Hamilton (or even Raikonnen) to win it - if Alonso is able to come through I will be ecstatic - but I don't "expect it". Thus, I protect my fragile psyche...

I was a fan of Jacques Villeneuve and this is how I got through the final torrid races of that season. May not seem positive, but it works for me...

Kimi is not a problem for the same reason I'm worried for Alonso, they are up there thanks to regularity, not to a fast car. Hamilton and Vettel are the real threat and for me the big favourites as long as the Ferrari keep being out of the fight for the pole. Only a win on merit on one of the next two races (or rival's DNFs) could change my opinion.

Kimi is not a problem for the same reason I'm worried for Alonso, they are up there thanks to regularity, not to a fast car. Hamilton and Vettel are the real threat and for me the big favourites as long as the Ferrari keep being out of the fight for the pole. Only a win on merit on one of the next two races (or rival's DNFs) could change my opinion.

I agree - If Alonso can win another race, I'll be a lot more bullish.

I agree with Stefano Dominichalli - I don't think they can rely on their competitors continuing to make mistakes and allow them up the middle...

Button five places down in the grid in Japan, gearbox changed. Every little helps... Fingers crossed nothing like that happens to Fernando.

I'm not sure if it's good news for Fernando, Button could help him if he prevents Hamilton or Vetttel to take a win, I guess it works both ways, the good and the bad. As long as the F2012 is competitive to reach the podium by his own, I'm more than happy.

I'm not sure if it's good news for Fernando, Button could help him if he prevents Hamilton or Vetttel to take a win, I guess it works both ways, the good and the bad. As long as the F2012 is competitive to reach the podium by his own, I'm more than happy.

As long as McLaren and Red Bull don't use illegal pivoting wings Fernando is within a shout of the win.

I respect Alonso a lot for the season he's put together so far but his banging of this particular drum is getting a bit repetitive. The championship would not be a miracle in any way; it would be the result of a driver and team maximising the relatively poor package they had at the start of the season combined with their chief competitors shooting themselves in the foot.

Every memorable performance can be explained quite rationally if you remove the hyperbole. For recent examples: Vettel at Monza 2008, Hamilton at Silverstone 2008, Button in Canada last year, Alonso in Malaysia this year; all four performances are rightly lauded but you can so easily present the facts without nuance: "Vettel won a race in a Toro Rosso," "Hamilton beat the field by over a minute," "Button won from last place" and "did you see how bad that Ferrari was in Australia" without considering the reasons those drives came together as they did, and why they were even possible.

Alonso has eight podiums (more than any other driver) and three wins (joint first with Hamilton). Unless you believe Alonso has driven almost incalculably better than any other driver in a competitive car this season, those results cannot be explained unless you either accept that (a) the Ferrari has actually been very competitive in many races this season or (b) Alonso's main rivals have screwed up on a number of occasions. Personally I think it's a bit of both, with a healthy dose of Alonso driving flawlessly chucked into the mix. Certainly not a miracle.

It's a little miracle that we are in first position. We have no comparison between the car that we have and our opponents' car, especially in the first six or seven races where we were out of Q3 and 1.5 seconds behind.

It's why it's a " little miracle ". Because the car was so slow at the start of the season, instead leading the championship at mid season, Alonso could have been 35-40 pts behind the leaders before Barcelona, because the car was shit.

Instead, after Barcelona, he was leading the championship with Vettel.

Regarding what Mote said about 'first Alonso should win the title, then we won't hire a driver that bothers him', does anyone think that is a little harsh? It's not as if Alonso couldn't win titles in great cars but it's been the cars letting him down thus far.

Regarding what Mote said about 'first Alonso should win the title, then we won't hire a driver that bothers him', does anyone think that is a little harsh? It's not as if Alonso couldn't win titles in great cars but it's been the cars letting him down thus far.

I think it's just LdM's way of saying "you look after your own driving, we'll worry about the No.2 seat". Shouldn't read too much into it.

Anyhow, let's hope for a strong weekend for Alonso. And please not another weekend of hoping he'll scrape into third place and that his competitors will crash/breakdown so he can maintain his WDC lead. I want the car to be competitive and for him to be in the fight for victory or 2nd place!

Regarding what Mote said about 'first Alonso should win the title, then we won't hire a driver that bothers him', does anyone think that is a little harsh? It's not as if Alonso couldn't win titles in great cars but it's been the cars letting him down thus far.

Regarding what Mote said about 'first Alonso should win the title, then we won't hire a driver that bothers him', does anyone think that is a little harsh? It's not as if Alonso couldn't win titles in great cars but it's been the cars letting him down thus far.

I respect Alonso a lot for the season he's put together so far but his banging of this particular drum is getting a bit repetitive. The championship would not be a miracle in any way; it would be the result of a driver and team maximising the relatively poor package they had at the start of the season combined with their chief competitors shooting themselves in the foot.

Every memorable performance can be explained quite rationally if you remove the hyperbole. For recent examples: Vettel at Monza 2008, Hamilton at Silverstone 2008, Button in Canada last year, Alonso in Malaysia this year; all four performances are rightly lauded but you can so easily present the facts without nuance: "Vettel won a race in a Toro Rosso," "Hamilton beat the field by over a minute," "Button won from last place" and "did you see how bad that Ferrari was in Australia" without considering the reasons those drives came together as they did, and why they were even possible.

Alonso has eight podiums (more than any other driver) and three wins (joint first with Hamilton). Unless you believe Alonso has driven almost incalculably better than any other driver in a competitive car this season, those results cannot be explained unless you either accept that (a) the Ferrari has actually been very competitive in many races this season or (b) Alonso's main rivals have screwed up on a number of occasions. Personally I think it's a bit of both, with a healthy dose of Alonso driving flawlessly chucked into the mix. Certainly not a miracle.

Alonso has driven incalculably better than his rivals except Hamilton, and his main rivals have been consistently screwing up. Winning the title in the 4th best car would be unheard of in F1 history, as far as I know and definitely a miracle, especially when you consider its arguably been worse than Sauber and Williams this season as well, certainly no better. The level of driving required to consistently be pushing such a poor car to the limit without mistakes over 20 races, under extreme pressure and winning the title would be amazing.

If winning the drivers title in the 4th best car at most is not a miracle I would love to know what is!

I respect Alonso a lot for the season he's put together so far but his banging of this particular drum is getting a bit repetitive. The championship would not be a miracle in any way; it would be the result of a driver and team maximising the relatively poor package they had at the start of the season combined with their chief competitors shooting themselves in the foot.

Every memorable performance can be explained quite rationally if you remove the hyperbole. For recent examples: Vettel at Monza 2008, Hamilton at Silverstone 2008, Button in Canada last year, Alonso in Malaysia this year; all four performances are rightly lauded but you can so easily present the facts without nuance: "Vettel won a race in a Toro Rosso," "Hamilton beat the field by over a minute," "Button won from last place" and "did you see how bad that Ferrari was in Australia" without considering the reasons those drives came together as they did, and why they were even possible.

Alonso has eight podiums (more than any other driver) and three wins (joint first with Hamilton). Unless you believe Alonso has driven almost incalculably better than any other driver in a competitive car this season, those results cannot be explained unless you either accept that (a) the Ferrari has actually been very competitive in many races this season or (b) Alonso's main rivals have screwed up on a number of occasions. Personally I think it's a bit of both, with a healthy dose of Alonso driving flawlessly chucked into the mix. Certainly not a miracle.

It would not be a miracle... People have this impression that the Ferrari is a horrible car because both drivers missed on Q3 in the first race. Well, a little reminder: Alonso did a gross mistake after his first timed lap in Q2 (the lap to put a time on the board) and finished his session that way, finishing p12 in the session, and missing Q2 for less than two tenths. In the race, it came back (on pure pace) up to P5, and one has simply to ask if he would have made it to the podium had he avoided his mistake in qualy.In Malaysia, we saw the first glance of the amazing Ferrari in the rain.China and Bahrein were probably the weakest race of them all,with a "solid" P9 and P7.And from Spain, the Ferrari has been up there.It was the fastest car on the field in Monza, but a mechanical problem compromised the race. Still, finished P3.It is an unbeatable car under changing conditions, very solid on fast tracks, quite handy riding the kerbs (otherwise, the Monza pace would have never been there).It lacks a bit on qualy pace, but it is not a slow car, or a weak car, or a bad car by any means.And certainly, Alonso comfortably leading the championship (although helped by pathetic reliability from his main rivals, truth be told), is not "a miracle" at all... But somehow, with him, it looks like he always has to play down his machinery, regardless of the car he is in.

That's how I've been handling it as well. 2010 still hurts. I'm almost at the point of thinking that it's only a matter of time before his lead evaporates, but I'm not quite there yet.

*SIGH*

2010 was his own doing for focusing a little bit too much in covering ONE driver, and forgetting he had more rivals.This year, I guess, he and the team have learned the lesson and they are not underestimating anyone out there, neither the youngest 2xWDC in history, not the guy who beat him in his rookie year.

But somehow, with him, it looks like he always has to play down his machinery, regardless of the car he is in.

When he said in Monza he had the faster car and pole would have been easy to get, people called him arrogant.He can never win no matter what he says. No problem, that is not new and I am more than used to that.

By the way, you are right, Ferrari is not slow at all, in fact it is a rocket, like we all saw on the last race. Challenging for victory from the first lap.

It would not be a miracle... People have this impression that the Ferrari is a horrible car because both drivers missed on Q3 in the first race. Well, a little reminder: Alonso did a gross mistake after his first timed lap in Q2 (the lap to put a time on the board) and finished his session that way, finishing p12 in the session, and missing Q2 for less than two tenths. In the race, it came back (on pure pace) up to P5, and one has simply to ask if he would have made it to the podium had he avoided his mistake in qualy.In Malaysia, we saw the first glance of the amazing Ferrari in the rain.China and Bahrein were probably the weakest race of them all,with a "solid" P9 and P7.And from Spain, the Ferrari has been up there.It was the fastest car on the field in Monza, but a mechanical problem compromised the race. Still, finished P3.It is an unbeatable car under changing conditions, very solid on fast tracks, quite handy riding the kerbs (otherwise, the Monza pace would have never been there).It lacks a bit on qualy pace, but it is not a slow car, or a weak car, or a bad car by any means.And certainly, Alonso comfortably leading the championship (although helped by pathetic reliability from his main rivals, truth be told), is not "a miracle" at all... But somehow, with him, it looks like he always has to play down his machinery, regardless of the car he is in.

Ferrari's average gap to pole this year in the dry has been 0.9. Since Spain 0.7. That is not just an impression that is a monumental gap in F1, a light year, so the 'impression' that the car has been horrible is based on a lot more than Q3 in Australia. Alonso's average qualifying positon in the dry has been 7. That is midfield basically. If the Ferrari was so amazing in the rain why did Massa finish 18th in Malaysia? Everyone knows that rain allows the driver to make the difference, and Alonso, just like Senna, and Schumacher before him, took advantage of wet conditions. You can try to exaggerate the cars performance but the numbers do not lie. The car is a slow car, the numbers show it, and as far as I know, nobody has ever won a title in such a slow car, the 4th fastest at best.

He does not play down his machiney, when he has a great car he says so, but thing is he rarely has had a great car since 2008, so obviously its getting repetitive.

Ferrari's average gap to pole this year in the dry has been 0.9. Since Spain 0.7. That is not just an impression that is a monumental gap in F1, a light year, so the 'impression' that the car has been horrible is based on a lot more than Q3 in Australia. Alonso's average qualifying positon in the dry has been 7. That is midfield basically. If the Ferrari was so amazing in the rain why did Massa finish 18th in Malaysia? Everyone knows that rain allows the driver to make the difference, and Alonso, just like Senna, and Schumacher before him, took advantage of wet conditions. You can try to exaggerate the cars performance but the numbers do not lie. The car is a slow car, the numbers show it, and as far as I know, nobody has ever won a title in such a slow car, the 4th fastest at best.

He does not play down his machiney, when he has a great car he says so, but thing is he rarely has had a great car since 2008, so obviously its getting repetitive.

Hadnt realised that.

With even the Force India now looking to be on the same pace as the Ferrari at some tracks, if he wins this will be one of the best WDCs of modern times.... even after taking account of the fact that Macca threw it away for LH

Alonso has driven incalculably better than his rivals except Hamilton, and his main rivals have been consistently screwing up.

Sometimes I wonder about posts in that forum. Alonso and Hamilton are perfect and everyone else consistently screwing up? I don't see many mistakes from drivers like Vettel or Kimi. I also don't think Hamilton and Alonso were perfect. Alonso is very very good this year and it's indeed a great performance by him to lead the WDC, but it's not all black and white.

Decent qualy, he was not comfortable for most of the time on FP3 and qualy but he managed to enter Q3 and 4th was possible (according to him). Extreme damaged limitation tomorrow, but the lead is going to be halved unless mechanical problems for the rivals.

F1 remains unpredictable, I didn't predict Red Bull to dominate at Suzuka, and for Alonso it's a bad scenario. He'll be fighting Saubers, McLarens and Lotus's tomorrow while Vettel cruises to a win with Webber as his safety barrier.

F1 remains unpredictable, I didn't predict Red Bull to dominate at Suzuka, and for Alonso it's a bad scenario. He'll be fighting Saubers, McLarens and Lotus's tomorrow while Vettel cruises to a win with Webber as his safety barrier.

But continuing with the u predictable nature, may e there will be weekends where it is the reverse.

We never know what can happen on a race day. Every fan of Alonso certainly remebers how desperate everything looked for him after Q in Suzuka in 2006. It was a much worse situation than today, that was penultimate race of the season and everything looked bright for Schumacher. So, if we get a first corner without incidents, podium is possible, maybe even more.

This mirrors Alonso's entire career. 2005, 2006, 2007,2010, 2012. Battling hard against the odds trying to hold off much faster rivals to win a world title. A complete contrast to the majority of past greats who had the luxury of the best car for large periods of their career. It will be a terrible mis justice if this trend continues for the rest of his career. Would be nice to just have the fastest car for a while. It does make his record more impressive though that he has accomplished so much.

We never know what can happen on a race day. Every fan of Alonso certainly remebers how desperate everything looked for him after Q in Suzuka in 2006. It was a much worse situation than today, that was penultimate race of the season and everything looked bright for Schumacher. So, if we get a first corner without incidents, podium is possible, maybe even more.

It seems the car is not good enough to expect more, at least at Suzuka, unless people in front screw up...

This mirrors Alonso's entire career. 2005, 2006, 2007,2010, 2012. Battling hard against the odds trying to hold off much faster rivals to win a world title. A complete contrast to the majority of past greats who had the luxury of the best car for large periods of their career.

Well, Alonso DID have the best car once, but pissed it up the wall in a fit of pique.