OK here is my 2 cents. I demoed A RDO at Fruita Co, I road it for 4 hours, I found it very efficient and worthy of the hype. I felt it should have been stiffer in the front and would have preferred a lower BB, its wheelbase makes it very stable on descents. I bought a Tallboy C after that demo and after a couple rides here's what I can say. The Tallboy has stiffer front end, slightly less stable on descents, I think because of the shorter wheelbase, on the other hand the Tallboy has a much more agile feel to it. I prefer the lower BB of the Tallboy. As far as pedaling they are both outstanding compared to the old four bar stuff I have owned. I also have a Giant Anthem 29er and can say it might be the best of the lot, yet it it just a little whippy in front end [the new carbon version should corrected this] also but at half the cost the Anthem is the hands down winner.

An Alu Anthem a winner over both the RDO and TB...? Common now... Its not even in the same league

Shouldnt sweat it man... Some people prefer the feel of certain bikes. Muzz loves his RDO even tho he liked the TB and rode one for awhile. With all the recent mods to correct what I felt were the only real short comings on the TB Im very happy with it.

In my original tallboy write up I pointed out the pedal strikes and a bit of wallow over half rear suspension travel during hard cuts and braking.

The change to the 170mm crank and RT3 corrected both of these issues wonderfully and I couldn't be happier with the TB now. The fact that SC is using 142 rears in the standard TB is another plus even over my version.

So what does each one do better than the other. I live in Colorado and the climbs can be really long here. I'm coming off a Sultan I don't like the way it bobs when I get out of the saddle and am realizing that as I age that I am doing faster and smoother trails with less hits and thatI don't want to carry an aluminum frame around anymore.

Ok, you must have a TNT Sultan? The DW Sultan is as good as pedaling gets from what I have heard, the downside is the 7 + pound frame. The Giant Anthem frame comes in at a stellar 5.3 lbs in alloy and could be the best platform available, just sayin all aluminum is not created equal as for carbon

Bottom line is its not comparing apples to apples. A common misconception about Carbon fiber is that the tradeoff is durability for weight. Those of us who know better, know not only is thats not true but doesn't scratch the surface...

What some dont realize is that Carbon Fiber has many more advantages including durability. CF doesn't fatigue the way that Alu or other metals do but also non-corrosive! You can repair CF, It is lighter, more compliant. Carbon fiber provides better shock absorption and far superior vibration damping. Monocoque construction of frames like TB is an advantage over metal and the possible stress cracks that can occur with welded joints.

Another huge advantage building frames from CF is that unlike isotropic materials (Aluminum Steel) that has the same mechanical properties identical in all directions; Composites like CF are anisotropic and they can easily be made to satisfy virtually any mechanical property without changing the overall structural shape of the part. In other words CF can be used to make tubes thinner and lighter yet still retain more strength and stiffness in any specific configuration, therefor being able to apply rigidity where its desired and give where its desired.

Bottom line is its not comparing apples to apples. A common misconception about Carbon fiber is that the tradeoff is durability for weight. Those of us who know better, know not only is thats not true but doesn't scratch the surface...

What some dont realize is that Carbon Fiber has many more advantages including durability. CF doesn't fatigue the way that Alu or other metals do but also non-corrosive! You can repair CF, It is lighter, more compliant. Carbon fiber provides better shock absorption and far superior vibration damping. Monocoque construction of frames like TB is an advantage over metal and the possible stress cracks that can occur with welded joints.

Another huge advantage building frames from CF is that unlike isotropic materials (Aluminum Steel) that has the same mechanical properties identical in all directions; Composites like CF are anisotropic and they can easily be made to satisfy virtually any mechanical property without changing the overall structural shape of the part. In other words CF can be used to make tubes thinner and lighter yet still retain more strength and stiffness in any specific configuration, therefor being able to apply rigidity where its desired and give where its desired.

I'd prefer to thank my best bud who's an NDT tech for the aerospace and power industries... You might need to google that...

Google parrot. You know , like parroting what you have heard, or second hand knowledge. That is what you bring to any conversation, second hand. When you have first hand knowledge of something bike related, come back and join the conversation, until then keep your uninformed opinions to yourself and stop presenting yourself as some one who knows anything. Are you sure your not dremer03? You sure post like him.

I would have to agree that in my experience, the Giant Anthem rides better than both the Tallboy and the Niner CVA, (I haven't had the opportunity to ride the RDO). Bonus, now the Anthem comes in carbon.

Three frame failures with carbon fiber. I've had frame failures with other bikes but usually it's after two years of ownership; not less than six months. I'm not a CF hater but I feel the current CF offerings are for light trail use only.

My Tallboy's seat tube cracked twice and the seat tube on my Scalpel "ovalized". I'm 5'10" and have a 35+in inseam. I run a lot of post. I weigh 225lb. A Nomad type frame is more suitable for me. Both bikes ride great. Santa Cruz's customer service was very good. In fact I know of a rider who broke his Talboy twice that eventually bought another after selling the original.

My Tallboy's seat tube cracked twice and the seat tube on my Scalpel "ovalized". I'm 5'10" and have a 35+in inseam. I run a lot of post. I weigh 225lb. A Nomad type frame is more suitable for me. Both bikes ride great. Santa Cruz's customer service was very good. In fact I know of a rider who broke his Talboy twice that eventually bought another after selling the original.

Wow thanks for the feedback. I've been on the fence on purchasing the TBc vs TB. I'm a big boy like 270 Lbs (NFL size) and I rented a TallBoy aluminum today. Really dig the bike and suits me fine. I understand the carbon advantages and I'm sure if I got one it would treat me fine. Sure I may have the same issues as you (not sure if I will run lot of post) and if I have to take the risk of repairing it in a few years then I gotta deal with it then should I make the purchase soon. I know aluminum and steel as that is all my previous bikes so I can't rule out the aluminum TB. But I do understand people say the ride is a bit different on the CF frames with impact. I don't race and ride on the weekends and really don't think the lighter weight will make a difference (I could be totally wrong) but should I get the TBc or the TB I'm sure I'll be stoked!!!

My Tallboy's seat tube cracked twice and the seat tube on my Scalpel "ovalized". I'm 5'10" and have a 35+in inseam. I run a lot of post. I weigh 225lb. A Nomad type frame is more suitable for me. Both bikes ride great. Santa Cruz's customer service was very good. In fact I know of a rider who broke his Talboy twice that eventually bought another after selling the original.

I too have heard a couple of guys that had problems with their tallboy after warranty ran out. Went to LBS, LBS called SC, and no problem they took care of the customer even after warranty. I've read this about SC doing this many times, to me that is good customer service. Seems they want customers for life. I've heard of other bigger companies, which did not care to follow the same path and lost the customer for life.

As far as the Scalpel goes, yeah cool bike, but quite expensive. One could build or order a Tallboy or Niner RDO for less and save the difference to get some good wheels and hubs. I would put the Tallboy carbon and RDO over Scalpel anyday just because the value, more bang for buck. Not to mention they look better too, the alloy 4 scalpel is their best looking paint scheme. Not sure about Niner's customer service, as far as for racing only the RDO, what, you can't race a Tallboy? Thats absurd. Tallboy is just as capable as the RDO, furthermore, I would say the Tallboy and RDO can handle almost anything.

I would not say the Tallboy looks better than the RDO, I think the RDO looks really outstanding and is a piece of art, it looks fast standing still. Color options on their carbon bikes are better too. I think the Black and Red Tallboy carbon is a sick looking bike too, but I give the edge to the RDO, I have no bias even though I am anxiously awaiting my new Tallboy on Wednesday. I'm no expert, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just my 2 cents.

I would have to agree that in my experience, the Giant Anthem rides better than both the Tallboy and the Niner CVA, (I haven't had the opportunity to ride the RDO). Bonus, now the Anthem comes in carbon.

Can you elaborate? What style of riding?

BTW - Sunnyside knew I was only joking about the anthem x... hence the smiley faces Too bad mtbr's two resident trolls couldn't figure that out.

Wow thanks for the feedback. I've been on the fence on purchasing the TBc vs TB. I'm a big boy like 270 Lbs (NFL size) and I rented a TallBoy aluminum today. Really dig the bike and suits me fine. I understand the carbon advantages and I'm sure if I got one it would treat me fine. Sure I may have the same issues as you (not sure if I will run lot of post) and if I have to take the risk of repairing it in a few years then I gotta deal with it then should I make the purchase soon. I know aluminum and steel as that is all my previous bikes so I can't rule out the aluminum TB. But I do understand people say the ride is a bit different on the CF frames with impact. I don't race and ride on the weekends and really don't think the lighter weight will make a difference (I could be totally wrong) but should I get the TBc or the TB I'm sure I'll be stoked!!!

I think you should go carbon if you dont mind spending the extra funds. The TB is Santa Cruz's all time most popular frame. Out of all the many carbon TB's sold a few have had issues, that is just the statistical laws of any popular item. Main thing is that they are not known for any significant or regular failures.

Im sure the Alu version rides well but its the stiffness of the carbon that I really love, Carbon IMO

One last note on CF, Although its relatively new to the cycling industry keep in mind its been used for a LONG time in Marine and Aircraft with good reason. I was mocking up hulls with the stuff over a decade ago and it was nothing more than common place... Its no fad, but we will likely continue to see improvement in the cycling industry for some time.

MTBR member TIGERREYES said this in the Diamondback section --> "I have a Sortie 29er 3. Also have a 2011 Anthem X 29er 1. I love the Anthem because it's very light for a 29er but I find myself always wanting to ride the Sortie 29er 3, since I have a lot more fun with that one. It's awesome on climbs and it's just impressive on descends I just feel that I can throw whatever the trail gives and it won't break compared to always being a bit cautious with the Anthem thinking that a big bad jump might break it. I love both bikes very much but if I had to choose right now, I would go for the Sortie 3 since it's more of my riding style (I don't race) and I can't really notice the extra weight when riding."

I post this because I know the Anthem is nice but as I've heard many times, and this is one of them, it's just not as fun as other bikes, including the RDO and Tallboy.