I intended it as a discussion of England's prospects long-term and not just to discuss the current England squad and the next game. I wanted it to be a discussion of well set up England is as a nation overall and how much further they have to go in a sort of grand-strategy sense.

I care dude don't you worry. I genuinely think England now has something they have always lacked - a formation that every team in the PL has played and had relative success under.

The 3 at the back formation whether it be a 352 or a 343 should relatively make it easier to pick the best in each position due to most clubs using that formation & as a result I don't see England missing out on a talent like Scholes simply because they couldn't fit multiple players in to a formation.

I reckon in 5-8 years when all likes of rAshford, dier, Kane, alli have hit their prime amongst some more younger players things will look much different on the international stage than it has been for the countless generations.

Saying that, the biggest club in the UK with the biggest youth set up (without being biased - this is us) will have to really take the stage in Europe and be consistent at the top continuously before we have the confidence to play more of our own youth regularly.

In my opinion as good as the English clubs have been - not a single club has dominated Europe for a period of 5 years or so to be confident enough to let through youth like through a tap.

I expect us to switch to a 352 sooner than later that will eventually lead to finding a magical balance between our youth and our first team.

Come on lads, stop making multiple threads to discuss the England national team. It clutters the Footie Forum and it gets difficult to keep up and follow the discussion. Just like all the Rooney threads we used to have.

Come on lads, stop making multiple threads to discuss the England national team. It clutters the Footie Forum and it gets difficult to keep up and follow the discussion. Just like all the Rooney threads we used to have.

Click to expand...

Lol. Maybe i've been stupid. Maybe what I intended this to be discussed in here can be discussed in there. Mods could delete this thread.

Not only did England do well as a collective being U17 Euros finalists, U21 semi finalist, U19 Euro Champions, U20 Champions and winning the U18-U20 Toulon tournament, England also did from an individual perspective. Mason Mount was the player of the tournament of the U19 Euro Championship with 4 assists + 1 goal in 5 games. Jadon Sanch won player of the tournament at the U17s Euros, and whilst this may not be seen as much by many, previous winners include the likes of Fabregas, Kroos and Rooney. England have done well at an international tournament at youth level before, like in 1993, where England's U18 side went on to win it, which had players such as Robbie Fowler, Scholes, Sol Campbell, and Gary Neville. Moreover, the coming of to the U19 Euros final, it was the case that two of the top four scorers were playing for England in Ben Brereton and Ryan Sessegnon who was one of the youngest players at the tournament. Further individual accolades include, Reece James who was awarded best young player of the tournament at the U18-U20 Toulon tournament and the top goal scorers Harvey Barnes and George Hirst, both England players. Other English players that made the team of the tournament include Harvy Barnes, George Hirst, and Worall, and lastly David Brooks who won player of the tournament. This is no small achievement considering the England side that won the Toulon Tournament last year, comprised mostly of U18 players, were the first England side to win it in 22 years. In addition, England winning the U20 WC can be as significant as we allow it to be,provided we give players a pathway. When France won it in 2013, the squad included Areoloa who is now the starting GK for PSG, Digne, Pogba, Umtiti and Zouma.

What England need to improve on is the pathway. A disconcerting statistic of last season:
Playing time for domestic U22 players in 2016-17: Ligue 1 -79,062 minutes, La Liga- 37,992 minutes, Bundesliga - 36,001 minutes, Serie A - 21,865 minutes Premier League - 16,532 minutes.

England could use with more managers like Koeman and Pochettino in the Premier Leauge. Once everyone had played a maximum of 1 game in the Premier League this season, it was Everton and Spurs who not just played, but started a member of the England U20s which won the U20 World Cup as I said earlier.

Koeman-“As a coach, I see if a new signing can hinder the development of a new talent. We can go and sign again, but in six months a talent might just be ready," he wrote in his column in De Telegraaf. Then you want to give him perspective. I think it’s nice to see the young players from their own training centres in England knock on the door. I want to give them confidence. In England, they generally hesitate, and don’t play young players too early. But as a Dutchman, I just don’t hesitate to give them a chance.The Premier League has made many foreign purchases and sometimes that’s inevitable, but I get to see the appreciation of everything just by walking in the training ground," he said.I admire the attitude, the mentality and behaviour of the young English footballers. They go like the fire, you don’t need to do anything to their motivation and I have to slow them down rather than push ahead. They possess a certain character that you don’t see in the Netherlands or in other countries. It’s a different culture.”

Everton have bought young players from lower leagues such as Dennis Adeniran, and Lewis Gibson who will be exposed to a higher level of football. Additionally, they've made the acquisitions of Keane and Pickford who are not only young for their respective positions, but players that will also be mainstays and add to the English core of Calvert-Lewin, Dowell, Tom Davies, Holgate, Lookman amongst others. Furthermore, signings such as Klaassen who was the captain of a very, very young Ajax side, and Rooney as England's all time top goal scorer were bought for their influence on the youngsters. Also, now these young players will get the chance to play in Europe.

Conversely, Spurs have Pochettino. A manager who generally prefers players to stay at the Spurs camp, rather than going out on loan, as he wants players to be molded into the way he wants, rather than the influence of others. For this reason, Winks stayed at Spurs, and Onomah despite interest for his services last season, were rejected. Although, he is on loan now. Spurs had an English core of Rose, Walker, Alli and Kane, with Onomah, Trippier and Winks as peripheral figures for most of the season. Now Walker is gone, but Trippier will have a more prominent role, Kyle Walker Peters is now in the mix. And it won't be too long before we see Marcus Edwards getting game time.

Pochettino - “And then, I think because the big sides are investing a lot of money in trying to improve their squads, but for us we are so calm and so quiet because we have belief in our youth from our academy. We may lack a few players, but we are so calm because I think we have a very good team and the most important thing for us always is the team. Always the philosophy is coming from the board and in the case of (chairman) Daniel Levy, I think we have a very good relationship, we have a clear idea of what we need to do in the future.But it is true we have a different philosophy, it is not because we cannot invest, but Tottenham have built a different philosophy than the other big clubs.

With that being said, England can't rely on the Premier League alone, as a pathway for players. Leading up to the 2014/15 season Tom Ince, an England U21 player turned down Monaco and Inter Milan to sign for Hull, with his reasoning being he felt the league itself and the question 'would I get lost over there?' especially being English, put me off a little." However, there's been progress in this regard with a number of English players whether on loan (M. Willock to Utrecht, Reece Oxford to Gladbach, or leaving permanently, as we've seen with Sancho joining Dortmund, Kaylen Hinds leaving Arsenal to join Wolfsburg, or or Dobson to Sparta Rotterdam from West Ham.

There's also the Championship. More games( 46>BPL's 38) + more willing to accept players on loan. Ryan Sessegnon became a starter for Fulham before he reached the age of 17, and barring unfortunate mitigating factors/extenuating circumstances, he'll get an exorbitant amount of game time. If he moved to a PL side, its possible he'll be playing at reserve level now, or consigned to the bench to only play in the cup competitions. Swansea's Abraham is an example of a player who thrived in the Championship which won him a loan spell from Chelsea to PL side Swansea as a starter. You've also got Nottingham Forest who have a core of English players, Dowell who was Everton's best player in preseason, Zac Clough, Ben Osborn, Jordan Smith, and Joe Worall.

Ah, okay. Maybe I should just let it die. I don't know what I can change the title to without putting 'England' or 'English' in it. Maybe 'The state of the national game'?

Click to expand...

How about "Grassroots football", discuss how youth work in the country has or hasn't changed, what coaches focus on during development and what they maybe should focus on, how it is done in other countries that are more/less successful etc.