Correcting misinformation is not the same as caring about one’s reputation.

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By: Lily https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-496
Thu, 03 Jun 2010 11:58:01 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-496If the “smears” against the NKT are baseless lies, why stoop to the level of those doing the smearing? The fact that the NKT has taken the actions it has in defense of its reputation has caused me to question the validity of the teachings, because it is my understanding that good Buddhists do not care about reputation. At least, that is what I was taught by the NKT. So why go against your own teachings?

His Holiness the Dalai Lama says:

“As it says in The Way of the Bodhisattva, praise and a good reputation do nothing to increase our longevity or good health. Maybe if lots of people praised us we might get a bit richer! But apart from that, praise does not make us live longer or in better health or help us in any other way. If people criticize us, it does not make us sick or unhealthy and nor does it shorten our lives. It does not affect us in any substantial way at all.”

– The Dalai Lama, from “Bad Reputation,” Tricycle, Summer 2007

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By: Jamie https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-490
Tue, 18 May 2010 18:16:18 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-490I agree and disagree with several of the opinions on here. It is good to have balanced discussion. I will speak from my experience, and what I have learned. The whole question of whether the NKT is a cult or whether this or that administration is good or bad is almost irrelevant. The benefit from the holy Dharma, including with regards to that “found” through Dharma Centres, is undeniable. It’s there. There’s benefit to be had, for yourself, and ultimately for others.

My experience is: just be careful – if you are at a crossroads – of what you decide upon.

It can seem an easy decision to move into an NKT Centre and throw yourself into “helping”, because it’s obvious, clear, set up. However, you need to be very sure that’s what YOU need, and that that’s what YOUR path is. It’s your life, and in the long run, you will have to realize that, no matter how simple or blissful it might appear to move in and jump onto the well-structured NKT train, living your own path, day by day, year by year is the most critical thing you can do. Everything is at stake. Your relationships, your future, others, everything..

Neglecting some inkling of a personal path different (form or content-wise) than the NKT Centre path will eventually catch up with you. Be true to who you are and what your instincts are telling you, and above all else, do not just jump into any advice that anyone gives you. I know. I’ve tried. We can’t escape living our own individual path…

I have spent a great deal of time surfing cult info websites filled with many sociologist psychologists & very intelligent people. But they all disagree & do not have a clear definition of cult. I always find Geshe Kelsangs teachings are clear where other people are confused. So I did some thinking and came up with the following definition to be tested to see if it fits all cults. Once we have a definition its easy to establish who is & who isnt.

My definition of cult is an organisation using psychological techniques that upon realising it is harming its members decides to continue harming them because harming them is bringing leading members wealth, fame, worldly pleasure and popularity.

In a nutshell it is intentional harm for worldly purposes. The definition also has to be applicable to management training gurus, boot camps gurus, & psychotherapy gurus.

What do people think?

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By: Extremador https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-373
Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:51:41 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-373what I would like to know and get more information on is:

What is the comparision between historically times when religions spread rapidly & the definition of cult

What is the comparison between Buddhist monasteries in ancient times & pre 1950 in Tibet & the definition of cult

For example, many stories of Buddhists of old have people in them who died for their religion, gave all their wealth away, obeyed their guru as he asked them to do things that harmed their bodies. The great monasteries we hear of were communities of people who were heavily controlled & their freedoms suppressed. If they ‘strayed’ they were booted out. The religion says to regard someone who appears as a human to be an infalliable source of information who is always right (a Buddha). So is the entire philosophy of Buddhism going to be deemd a cult? If these are the characteristics of a cult them a mainstream religion has been a cult for 1000s of years…..
As a child I saw David caradine endure all the gruelling hardships inflicted by his Buddhist master as well as movies of Shaolin monks & I was impressed. I wanted that life. Is the Shaolin monastery of old fitting the definition of controlling & suppressing freedom. Was it a cult? It was a small community indeed. I think it is as important to publish a book on this topic. I cannot put my finger on it but there is something very important in this topic that will determine if we practice religion in our future lives or develop a dislike for it or wrong understanding of how religion works. We need to sort out our karma.

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By: Extremador https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-372
Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:02:28 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-372I found an interesting website where there is support for people in the situation of being deemed a cult because its a new set up http://www.firmstand.org/articles/cult_myth.html
They are an association campaigning against persecution of people who are picked on because they are not a high number.
The Foundation against Intolerance of Religious Minorities (FIRM) advocates the human, social, and civil rights of all religious and spiritual groups, particularly religious minorities actively engaged in spiritual practice. In particular:

FIRM provides education for the general public on all the varieties of prejudice, both overt and subtle, that are currently being practiced openly against many religious minorities. A comparison is made with other forms of discrimination (toward women, blacks, homosexuals, the handicapped, etc.) to which our society has become more sensitive.

religious tolerance: we still have a long way to go

discrimination against minority religions via the “cult” myth

media sensationalism and apostasy: a destructive synergy

anti-cult movements: systematic religious persecution

the taboo against religious traditions that make strong requirements of members

the taboo against gnostic religious traditions and Spiritual Masters

how to find the truth about a religious movement

FIRM chronicles the history of persecution throughout the ages of religious minorities and their founders (including persecution of Christianity in its infancy, leading to the deaths of Jesus and many of his disciples), and it examines the origins of (and the motivations behind) such persecution.

FIRM observes that five stages tend to occur in the fight against intolerance or prejudice of any kind in our time:

1. Atrocities or injustices are committed on the basis of discrimination of one kind or another.

2. A social movement coalesces to counter that particular form of discrimination.

3. The movement is accepted socially; “consciousness” is “raised”; laws begin to change, in the direction of guaranteeing equal opportunity, rights, and privileges.

4. Now hyper-sensitive to its own discrimination, the society swings to the opposite extreme, in the form of a “political correctness” movement, whose purpose is to eliminate all speech (and action) that might possibly offend, because it could be interpreted as (either overtly or covertly) discriminatory.

5. The society swings toward a more natural balance, affording both equal opportunity and an open and ongoing forum for the exploration, understanding, and appreciation of real and usefully acknowledged differences among sexes, races, sexual persuasions, religions, etc. (none of which should ever be translated into differences in human, rights, social opportunities, etc.).

This sequence has been illustrated in the civil rights and womens rights movements, which are both in process between stages 4 and 5. Unfortunately, the fight against intolerance of religious minorities is still largely in stage 1. The various freedoms guaranteed to religion by the U.S. Constitution, and by the constitutions of other governments and international bodies like he United Nations, still largely benefit majority religions exclusively. In other words: we have a long way to go!

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By: Extremador https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-350
Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:41:39 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-350The thing is if a religious experience is powerful are you in a cult?

Just because a teaching is powerful & you feel compelled to follow the teacher of your own free will doesnt mean its a cult. Many people had powerful feelings of religious devotion in history & they were admired not told they were behaving in an unhealthy way.

Modern society is so critical of everyone. Teachers cant show anything magical as it makes a big problem. The whole NKt issue is that 1000 years ago if Geshela did this everyone would rejoice but now there can be no lamas making a revival of old teachings.its a sin basically.no lama can reestablish the teachings if things degenerate. They are outcast if they try to do anything good.why? because theyre not towing the line. The main group of lamas take offence that they have no say in the matter or are not in charge. They feel insulted that someone dares to make any decisions. Its all about ego & heirarchy thats my conclusion. These lamas may give beautiful talks as they know the instructions but if they dont respect & let someone try to do something good then its an ego thing. 1000s of years ago people would have tears of joy seeing what was happening, now its all feeling slighted people feeling their heirarchical position is being ignored & then smear campaigns to try to destroy all the good potential & replace it with a bad image of buddhism as a religion of bickering & egos.

The NKT is not a cult, its much gentler than the non westernised version where you have to do 100 page sadhanas daily or be scowled at & told you will roast in hell for aeons. The NKt is run by imperfect people & the spiritual experiences they are getting are quite powerful BECAUSE it is a very pure teaching & intention of Geshe Kelsang. So of course these powerful energies can be channeled the wrong way at times.but what is the alternative? To prevent people developing these powerful expereiences? close the door to any potential powerful realisation make it all dead & intellectual so noone gets emotional & fanatical?

How do you think people were when they met someone very pure trying to do something good in the past? like jesus john the baptist moses mohammed…I promise you they were surrounded by fanatical people of course things went wrong because of all the powerful emotions & energies it wasnt perfect but the teacher did his best to correct when people went the wrong direction.

Nothing is good enough for us nowadays. We have more luxurious bathwater than cleopatra, we eat more luxurious dishes than the emperors of the entire roman empire did. yet we pick at our food & complain that movies that cost millions of pounds & that people risked their lives to make are rubbish. I suppose all the critiques will believe geshela should have taught us all to chant tibetan & consult the dalai lama before doing anything for permission. If milarepa was told he had to consult another lama before he had permission to speak what do you think he would have said? He would have told them to go shove it

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By: Dave https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-349
Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:13:44 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-349I must admit being quite new to all this, but the NKT i have read about on the survivors website bears very littly relation to my own experience. At the centre Ive attended for the past year or so the people have been very welcoming and helpful, the teachers have been wonderful,and I have never been pressured for money or anything else.Im very happy in the NKT,I think Geshe-la’s books are fantastic,and i just dont see any cult-like behaviour…. Unfortunately on the survivors sites you arent allowed to post a view like this.Are they worried that people might actually start to hear the truth?? For anyone unsure as to the NKT, I would say go along to your nearest centre and see for yourself
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By: Extremador https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-339
Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:41:34 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-339Im already seeing changes & Ive seen changes in the NKT trying to address any extremes & remove them. But new people can still come along & in their own wave of excitement do many fanatical things. Its important for teachers & senior students when they see people being overexcited in this way to say ‘Its a free country but this is not the ultimate aim’ or ‘you can do now but it might make others feel pressure to do long hours too’
This could be said if theyre overworking, offering everything they own, not resting when ill, neglecting eating at mealtimes. If people see one person doing things like this & the teacher says ‘How wonderful’ this is the beggining of these extremes as its like a big thumbs up for enthusiatic intensive activity. Before you know it its the norm, its the routine, its the tradition. The BEST is to say ‘very nice you enjoy if it works for you but extremes are not the traditionals ultimate aim’
This issue of extreme behaviours can be stopped if the teacher doesnt give the thumbs up. Its easy to lose mindfullness & start something crazy with a wave of enthusiasm. This needs to be taught to ITTP students to not give thumbs up.
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By: Richard S https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/new-kadampa-survivors-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/#comment-321
Sun, 10 May 2009 02:56:23 +0000http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/?p=408#comment-321What do people think about the idea of NKT managers and teachers checking out the Survivors’ group (if they have not already done so) just so they can ask themselves honestly and without fear, “Am I myself guilty of any of these behaviors described here?” Would there be anything to lose?

Another way of doing it would be to check the New Kadampa Truth website where pretty much every grievance has been addressed, and, again, to ask humbly as an individual, “Do I ever do this?” e.g. “do I ever tell people to read only Geshe-la’s books? Do I ever pressurize people into over-working? Do I ever behave a little fanatically?” Or whatever.

The Kadampa tradition itself clearly does not desire nor encourage these behaviors, hence the website and the Internal Rules (not to mention the holy Dharma); but individuals within the organization are naturally capable of making these kinds of mistakes due to delusions. This might therefore be a good litmus test enabling us to follow Atisha’s advice to identify and overcome any faults we might have. Especially those faults that are in any sense responsible for the NKT being thought by some people to be cult-like.