All round top guy and one of the great referees, Jonathan Kaplan, takes a dislike to the comments made by Eddie Jones.

Quote:

"I completely disagree with Eddie Jones in his accusation that Alun Wyn Jones “intimidated” referee Pascal Gauzere during Saturday’s game with Scotland.

I find Jones’s argument to be one-eyed at best, and plain wrong at worst. To my mind there is very little in that incident, and I am extremely surprised the England head coach has said what he has.

As a referee you are always keen to encourage dialogue with players, particularly the leaders of a team at international level. Alun Wyn was the Wales captain on Saturday and, as such, Pascal would have been speaking to him on a regular basis.

That means that if Scotland scored a try and Alun Wyn believes it merits another look from the officials then he can try to make that point – as long as he does so in a respectful fashion.

World Rugby would like their referees to be in sole control of this process but, if we are approached by a captain in the correct manner in the immediate aftermath of an incident, then we will often listen to them as it is in everyone’s benefit to get the big decisions right.

Looking at the conversation Alun Wyn had with Pascal I see absolutely no sign of disrespect, although when he stands in the way of the kicker that is probably a bit of gamesmanship as he tries to make his point – he clearly knows the try cannot be reviewed if the conversion has been taken.

However, once Pascal has made it clear the try is good, Alun Wyn walks away immediately.

When looking at this incident it is important to bear in mind that a lot has been made recently of the fact players need to show officials more respect, and I agree with World Rugby that we have a culture that needs to be maintained. While doing so it is also important that we don’t over-sanitise the lines of communication and refuse to allow leaders to express themselves.

I do wonder why Eddie never mentioned anything on this topic when Owen Farrell repeatedly questioned referee Ben O’Keefe during England’s win over Australia in November.

O’Keefe reviewed and eventually disallowed an Australian try after Farrell’s constant intervention and, if anything, that incident was arguably worse than what Jones is accusing the Welsh captain of – even if the right decision was reached in the end.

I myself have refereed Alun Wyn a number of times and did not have a single issue with him as a leader of his group. He may have disagreed with me on occasion but I had absolutely no problem with that as long as it did not tip over into disrespect or abuse. This incident was neither disrespectful or abusive, and I doubt very much it was intimidating for Pascal – and I would advise the England coach to look closer to home before pointing fingers at others"

Excellent

Case closed. Independent Top-Level Independent referee confirms that AWJ is a consummate gent to deal with and that Eddie is a hypocritical plum who needs to wind his neck in.

All round top guy and one of the great referees, Jonathan Kaplan, takes a dislike to the comments made by Eddie Jones.

Quote:

"I completely disagree with Eddie Jones in his accusation that Alun Wyn Jones “intimidated” referee Pascal Gauzere during Saturday’s game with Scotland.

I find Jones’s argument to be one-eyed at best, and plain wrong at worst. To my mind there is very little in that incident, and I am extremely surprised the England head coach has said what he has.

As a referee you are always keen to encourage dialogue with players, particularly the leaders of a team at international level. Alun Wyn was the Wales captain on Saturday and, as such, Pascal would have been speaking to him on a regular basis.

That means that if Scotland scored a try and Alun Wyn believes it merits another look from the officials then he can try to make that point – as long as he does so in a respectful fashion.

World Rugby would like their referees to be in sole control of this process but, if we are approached by a captain in the correct manner in the immediate aftermath of an incident, then we will often listen to them as it is in everyone’s benefit to get the big decisions right.

Looking at the conversation Alun Wyn had with Pascal I see absolutely no sign of disrespect, although when he stands in the way of the kicker that is probably a bit of gamesmanship as he tries to make his point – he clearly knows the try cannot be reviewed if the conversion has been taken.

However, once Pascal has made it clear the try is good, Alun Wyn walks away immediately.

When looking at this incident it is important to bear in mind that a lot has been made recently of the fact players need to show officials more respect, and I agree with World Rugby that we have a culture that needs to be maintained. While doing so it is also important that we don’t over-sanitise the lines of communication and refuse to allow leaders to express themselves.

I do wonder why Eddie never mentioned anything on this topic when Owen Farrell repeatedly questioned referee Ben O’Keefe during England’s win over Australia in November.

O’Keefe reviewed and eventually disallowed an Australian try after Farrell’s constant intervention and, if anything, that incident was arguably worse than what Jones is accusing the Welsh captain of – even if the right decision was reached in the end.

I myself have refereed Alun Wyn a number of times and did not have a single issue with him as a leader of his group. He may have disagreed with me on occasion but I had absolutely no problem with that as long as it did not tip over into disrespect or abuse. This incident was neither disrespectful or abusive, and I doubt very much it was intimidating for Pascal – and I would advise the England coach to look closer to home before pointing fingers at others"

All round top guy and one of the great referees, Jonathan Kaplan, takes a dislike to the comments made by Eddie Jones.

Quote:

"I completely disagree with Eddie Jones in his accusation that Alun Wyn Jones “intimidated” referee Pascal Gauzere during Saturday’s game with Scotland.

I find Jones’s argument to be one-eyed at best, and plain wrong at worst. To my mind there is very little in that incident, and I am extremely surprised the England head coach has said what he has.

As a referee you are always keen to encourage dialogue with players, particularly the leaders of a team at international level. Alun Wyn was the Wales captain on Saturday and, as such, Pascal would have been speaking to him on a regular basis.

That means that if Scotland scored a try and Alun Wyn believes it merits another look from the officials then he can try to make that point – as long as he does so in a respectful fashion.

World Rugby would like their referees to be in sole control of this process but, if we are approached by a captain in the correct manner in the immediate aftermath of an incident, then we will often listen to them as it is in everyone’s benefit to get the big decisions right.

Looking at the conversation Alun Wyn had with Pascal I see absolutely no sign of disrespect, although when he stands in the way of the kicker that is probably a bit of gamesmanship as he tries to make his point – he clearly knows the try cannot be reviewed if the conversion has been taken.

However, once Pascal has made it clear the try is good, Alun Wyn walks away immediately.

When looking at this incident it is important to bear in mind that a lot has been made recently of the fact players need to show officials more respect, and I agree with World Rugby that we have a culture that needs to be maintained. While doing so it is also important that we don’t over-sanitise the lines of communication and refuse to allow leaders to express themselves.

I do wonder why Eddie never mentioned anything on this topic when Owen Farrell repeatedly questioned referee Ben O’Keefe during England’s win over Australia in November.

O’Keefe reviewed and eventually disallowed an Australian try after Farrell’s constant intervention and, if anything, that incident was arguably worse than what Jones is accusing the Welsh captain of – even if the right decision was reached in the end.

I myself have refereed Alun Wyn a number of times and did not have a single issue with him as a leader of his group. He may have disagreed with me on occasion but I had absolutely no problem with that as long as it did not tip over into disrespect or abuse. This incident was neither disrespectful or abusive, and I doubt very much it was intimidating for Pascal – and I would advise the England coach to look closer to home before pointing fingers at others"

All round top guy and one of the great referees, Jonathan Kaplan, takes a dislike to the comments made by Eddie Jones.

Quote:

"I completely disagree with Eddie Jones in his accusation that Alun Wyn Jones “intimidated” referee Pascal Gauzere during Saturday’s game with Scotland.

I find Jones’s argument to be one-eyed at best, and plain wrong at worst. To my mind there is very little in that incident, and I am extremely surprised the England head coach has said what he has.

As a referee you are always keen to encourage dialogue with players, particularly the leaders of a team at international level. Alun Wyn was the Wales captain on Saturday and, as such, Pascal would have been speaking to him on a regular basis.

That means that if Scotland scored a try and Alun Wyn believes it merits another look from the officials then he can try to make that point – as long as he does so in a respectful fashion.

World Rugby would like their referees to be in sole control of this process but, if we are approached by a captain in the correct manner in the immediate aftermath of an incident, then we will often listen to them as it is in everyone’s benefit to get the big decisions right.

Looking at the conversation Alun Wyn had with Pascal I see absolutely no sign of disrespect, although when he stands in the way of the kicker that is probably a bit of gamesmanship as he tries to make his point – he clearly knows the try cannot be reviewed if the conversion has been taken.

However, once Pascal has made it clear the try is good, Alun Wyn walks away immediately.

When looking at this incident it is important to bear in mind that a lot has been made recently of the fact players need to show officials more respect, and I agree with World Rugby that we have a culture that needs to be maintained. While doing so it is also important that we don’t over-sanitise the lines of communication and refuse to allow leaders to express themselves.

I do wonder why Eddie never mentioned anything on this topic when Owen Farrell repeatedly questioned referee Ben O’Keefe during England’s win over Australia in November.

O’Keefe reviewed and eventually disallowed an Australian try after Farrell’s constant intervention and, if anything, that incident was arguably worse than what Jones is accusing the Welsh captain of – even if the right decision was reached in the end.

I myself have refereed Alun Wyn a number of times and did not have a single issue with him as a leader of his group. He may have disagreed with me on occasion but I had absolutely no problem with that as long as it did not tip over into disrespect or abuse. This incident was neither disrespectful or abusive, and I doubt very much it was intimidating for Pascal – and I would advise the England coach to look closer to home before pointing fingers at others"

Excellent

Case closed. Independent Top-Level Independent referee confirms that AWJ is a consummate gent to deal with and that Eddie is a hypocritical plum who needs to wind his neck in.

Doesn't get more conclusive than that.

I hope Kaplan's new leather jacket keeps him nice and warm.

In fairness it does show that the Welsh have good connections, getting refs to write on their behalf.

I love the approach of the 6N. Such anticipation. Then it starts and things like this thread appear...

No expectation on us. We're expecting to get beat easily and the bookies have it right. Well done England in advance

Agree, Wales can afford to go and have a really good go in expansive Scarlets style without worrying too much if they lose.

This was a rebuilding season, new team, new tactics.Just give either a lash. We are going to lose by a dozen or so we may as well go down playing with a bit of flair. The Saes bench will be too dynamic.

I love the approach of the 6N. Such anticipation. Then it starts and things like this thread appear...

No expectation on us. We're expecting to get beat easily and the bookies have it right. Well done England in advance

Agree, Wales can afford to go and have a really good go in expansive Scarlets style without worrying too much if they lose.

This was a rebuilding season, new team, new tactics.Just give either a lash. We are going to lose by a dozen or so we may as well go down playing with a bit of flair. The Saes bench will be too dynamic.

I said before the tournament began that Wales would be very pleased with a return of 2 wins in this year's tournament.

With the victory over the Scots, it looks like we will surpass that with bankers over Italy and France.

It means against Englañd and Ireland, Wales can just go out and play. Whatever happens happens. There is no expectation. We expect to lose.

I love the approach of the 6N. Such anticipation. Then it starts and things like this thread appear...

No expectation on us. We're expecting to get beat easily and the bookies have it right. Well done England in advance

Agree, Wales can afford to go and have a really good go in expansive Scarlets style without worrying too much if they lose.

This was a rebuilding season, new team, new tactics.Just give either a lash. We are going to lose by a dozen or so we may as well go down playing with a bit of flair. The Saes bench will be too dynamic.

Gatland has been in charge for ten years. Anyone would think a new coaching staff had just been appointed.

I love the approach of the 6N. Such anticipation. Then it starts and things like this thread appear...

No expectation on us. We're expecting to get beat easily and the bookies have it right. Well done England in advance

Agree, Wales can afford to go and have a really good go in expansive Scarlets style without worrying too much if they lose.

This was a rebuilding season, new team, new tactics.Just give either a lash. We are going to lose by a dozen or so we may as well go down playing with a bit of flair. The Saes bench will be too dynamic.

I said before the tournament began that Wales would be very pleased with a return of 2 wins in this year's tournament.

With the victory over the Scots, it looks like we will surpass that with bankers over Italy and France.

It means against Englañd and Ireland, Wales can just go out and play. Whatever happens happens. There is no expectation. We expect to lose.

I love the approach of the 6N. Such anticipation. Then it starts and things like this thread appear...

No expectation on us. We're expecting to get beat easily and the bookies have it right. Well done England in advance

Agree, Wales can afford to go and have a really good go in expansive Scarlets style without worrying too much if they lose.

This was a rebuilding season, new team, new tactics.Just give either a lash. We are going to lose by a dozen or so we may as well go down playing with a bit of flair. The Saes bench will be too dynamic.

I said before the tournament began that Wales would be very pleased with a return of 2 wins in this year's tournament.

With the victory over the Scots, it looks like we will surpass that with bankers over Italy and France.

It means against Englañd and Ireland, Wales can just go out and play. Whatever happens happens. There is no expectation. We expect to lose.

Come on now, you must at least try for the sake of coal, water, steel, houses, rape, control, and punishement

I love the approach of the 6N. Such anticipation. Then it starts and things like this thread appear...

No expectation on us. We're expecting to get beat easily and the bookies have it right. Well done England in advance

Agree, Wales can afford to go and have a really good go in expansive Scarlets style without worrying too much if they lose.

This was a rebuilding season, new team, new tactics.Just give either a lash. We are going to lose by a dozen or so we may as well go down playing with a bit of flair. The Saes bench will be too dynamic.

Gatland has been in charge for ten years. Anyone would think a new coaching staff had just been appointed.

Yeah it's been stale for years. However a leopard can apparently change its spots. This change has been forced by injuries and the Scarlets success. England are too settled to strong and just too Saes. England by 15

Yeah it's been stale for years. However a leopard can apparently change its spots. This change has been forced by injuries and the Scarlets success. England are too settled to strong and just too Saes. England by 15

Let's see if all these Welsh doom-sayers can bring themselves to commit to England players being individually better.

I'll bite. Disclaimer - English, not Welsh.Brown vs 1/2Penny: In my view, 1/2Penny. Close, as I think Brown will bash his head through walls rather than lose, but 1/2Penny is a good defender too, has flashes of inspiration and a better boot. If Watson was here for England I would go for him. Shame L Williams isn't around.Watson vs Adams. Watson. Scoring tries, solid, seriously put forwards recently as the best wing in the NH. Adams unproven as yet.Joseph vs S Williams. Joseph. Great try scoring record, great defence. Not the best hands and not a smasher but quick and clever. S Williams a few years ago may got closer, but the Welsh seem to think he has lost his pace. Farrell vs Parkes. Farrell. In most world XVs a few months ago. Not everybody's cup of tea. Doesn't seem to excel at any one element of 1st 5/8 play, but is pretty decent at all of them. Up against a newbie. May vs Evans. May. Too fast, plus running great support lines these days instead of crabbing. While not a FB, has learned from being played there.Ford vs Patchell. Actually bloody close here. Ford has not been playing in a good Tiggers team and Patchell looks excellent. Ford however has far more experience. Probably shades it but I am not sure.Care vs G Davies. I would probably take Davies. Unless Care has one of his 'on' days I just don't think he is great at SH basics. M Vunipola vs S Lee. Mako. Lee has never convinced, however strong he is. Mako has been better in the scrum, definitely a better link man.Hartley (capt) vs Owens. Owens. Hartley always seems a bit beige as a player. Good thrower though... Owens just about.Cole, vs Evans. Cole. I have been a big critic but actually against Italy he was great. If he plays like that again he may get back to the rock we remember.Launchbury vs Hill. I would take Launchberry over pretty much anybody. Just everywhere. Strong in the scrum. Itoje vs AWJ. AWJ. On last year's form, Itoje, but he hasn't been as dynamite this year. AWJ is always absurdly good against England, its like they press a button in his brain.Lawes vs Shingler. Tough. Probably 50/50 Lawes is good but I still think a bit too slow to turn and get up. But he is a quality player and a better carrier.Robshaw vs Navidi. Robshaw. Captain reliable. England don't want a fetcher, don't need one. Simmonds. vs Moriarty. Until last week I would have said Moriarty all day, but now, Simmonds. Play like he did last week and he should be our starting 7 when BV comes back.

Benches:

England by a distance. Tips and North are threats, but Wales pretty callow otherwise, particularly front row. Underworseley and Teo will improve defence and attack respectively. Nowell is looking really, really good.

So what is that: England 10, Wales 5, with England winning the bench, Wales maybe get +1 for Scarlets understanding.

Yeah it's been stale for years. However a leopard can apparently change its spots. This change has been forced by injuries and the Scarlets success. England are too settled to strong and just too Saes. England by 15

You think our players are better than yours?

Yes both wings, mid field and no. 10. The front 5 as a unit. We may shade you in the back row however given you will have a dominant front 5 our platform will be poor. I hope that clarifies my position. You have a better coaching set up as well atm.I think I have made my point quite clear.

Let's see if all these Welsh doom-sayers can bring themselves to commit to England players being individually better.

I'll bite. Disclaimer - English, not Welsh.Brown vs 1/2Penny: In my view, 1/2Penny. Close, as I think Brown will bash his head through walls rather than lose, but 1/2Penny is a good defender too, has flashes of inspiration and a better boot. If Watson was here for England I would go for him. Shame L Williams isn't around.Watson vs Adams. Watson. Scoring tries, solid, seriously put forwards recently as the best wing in the NH. Adams unproven as yet.Joseph vs S Williams. Joseph. Great try scoring record, great defence. Not the best hands and not a smasher but quick and clever. S Williams a few years ago may got closer, but the Welsh seem to think he has lost his pace. Farrell vs Parkes. Farrell. In most world XVs a few months ago. Not everybody's cup of tea. Doesn't seem to excel at any one element of 1st 5/8 play, but is pretty decent at all of them. Up against a newbie. May vs Evans. May. Too fast, plus running great support lines these days instead of crabbing. While not a FB, has learned from being played there.Ford vs Patchell. Actually bloody close here. Ford has not been playing in a good Tiggers team and Patchell looks excellent. Ford however has far more experience. Probably shades it but I am not sure.Care vs G Davies. I would probably take Davies. Unless Care has one of his 'on' days I just don't think he is great at SH basics. M Vunipola vs S Lee. Mako. Lee has never convinced, however strong he is. Mako has been better in the scrum, definitely a better link man.Hartley (capt) vs Owens. Owens. Hartley always seems a bit beige as a player. Good thrower though... Owens just about.Cole, vs Evans. Cole. I have been a big critic but actually against Italy he was great. If he plays like that again he may get back to the rock we remember.Launchbury vs Hill. I would take Launchberry over pretty much anybody. Just everywhere. Strong in the scrum. Itoje vs AWJ. AWJ. On last year's form, Itoje, but he hasn't been as dynamite this year. AWJ is always absurdly good against England, its like they press a button in his brain.Lawes vs Shingler. Tough. Probably 50/50 Lawes is good but I still think a bit too slow to turn and get up. But he is a quality player and a better carrier.Robshaw vs Navidi. Robshaw. Captain reliable. England don't want a fetcher, don't need one. Simmonds. vs Moriarty. Until last week I would have said Moriarty all day, but now, Simmonds. Play like he did last week and he should be our starting 7 when BV comes back.

Benches:

England by a distance. Tips and North are threats, but Wales pretty callow otherwise, particularly front row. Underworseley and Teo will improve defence and attack respectively. Nowell is looking really, really good.

So what is that: England 10, Wales 5, with England winning the bench, Wales maybe get +1 for Scarlets understanding.

There we have it folks. We have no hope.

Last edited by Dai another day on Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah it's been stale for years. However a leopard can apparently change its spots. This change has been forced by injuries and the Scarlets success. England are too settled to strong and just too Saes. England by 15

You think our players are better than yours?

Yes both wings, mid field and no. 10. The front 5 as a unit. We may shade you in the back row however given you will have a dominant front 5 our platform will be poor. I hope that clarifies my position. You have a better coaching set up as well atm.I think I have made my point quite clear.

Let's see if all these Welsh doom-sayers can bring themselves to commit to England players being individually better.

I'll bite. Disclaimer - English, not Welsh.Brown vs 1/2Penny: In my view, 1/2Penny. Close, as I think Brown will bash his head through walls rather than lose, but 1/2Penny is a good defender too, has flashes of inspiration and a better boot. If Watson was here for England I would go for him. Shame L Williams isn't around.Watson vs Adams. Watson. Scoring tries, solid, seriously put forwards recently as the best wing in the NH. Adams unproven as yet.Joseph vs S Williams. Joseph. Great try scoring record, great defence. Not the best hands and not a smasher but quick and clever. S Williams a few years ago may got closer, but the Welsh seem to think he has lost his pace. Farrell vs Parkes. Farrell. In most world XVs a few months ago. Not everybody's cup of tea. Doesn't seem to excel at any one element of 1st 5/8 play, but is pretty decent at all of them. Up against a newbie. May vs Evans. May. Too fast, plus running great support lines these days instead of crabbing. While not a FB, has learned from being played there.Ford vs Patchell. Actually bloody close here. Ford has not been playing in a good Tiggers team and Patchell looks excellent. Ford however has far more experience. Probably shades it but I am not sure.Care vs G Davies. I would probably take Davies. Unless Care has one of his 'on' days I just don't think he is great at SH basics. M Vunipola vs S Lee. Mako. Lee has never convinced, however strong he is. Mako has been better in the scrum, definitely a better link man.Hartley (capt) vs Owens. Owens. Hartley always seems a bit beige as a player. Good thrower though... Owens just about.Cole, vs Evans. Cole. I have been a big critic but actually against Italy he was great. If he plays like that again he may get back to the rock we remember.Launchbury vs Hill. I would take Launchberry over pretty much anybody. Just everywhere. Strong in the scrum. Itoje vs AWJ. AWJ. On last year's form, Itoje, but he hasn't been as dynamite this year. AWJ is always absurdly good against England, its like they press a button in his brain.Lawes vs Shingler. Tough. Probably 50/50 Lawes is good but I still think a bit too slow to turn and get up. But he is a quality player and a better carrier.Robshaw vs Navidi. Robshaw. Captain reliable. England don't want a fetcher, don't need one. Simmonds. vs Moriarty. Until last week I would have said Moriarty all day, but now, Simmonds. Play like he did last week and he should be our starting 7 when BV comes back.

Benches:

England by a distance. Tips and North are threats, but Wales pretty callow otherwise, particularly front row. Underworseley and Teo will improve defence and attack respectively. Nowell is looking really, really good.

So what is that: England 10, Wales 5, with England winning the bench, Wales maybe get +1 for Scarlets understanding.

The game will he won in the front 5. You have the better international unit by far. Your bench is very good and I feel you will pull away from a knackered Wales in the last 15. If we had our best 15 on the pitch then it would be close on a dry day. If it's raining and cold then your forwards will deliver a platform for Ford and Farrell to kick to the corners and control the game. Patchell and Davies won't be able to play a controlled game in such conditions and we don't have a decent catch and maul defence against your line out close to the line

Think it'll be a one score game either way and Welsh fans are either genuinely underrating their team or doing the classic over pleasing of the mockers.

I think we're taking a pretty pragmatic approach to it. We're balancing the fact that we played well last Saturday, against the fact that it was one of very few good performances in the last couple of years, and that England have a great home record, and good form. It's not false modesty - we're genuinely the under dogs, but we know we've got some good players there, just a question of whether they can produce under even greater pressure. We believe in our players and think we can win, but I went into last week unable to call it, because there was no form to point to...but after one good performance our hopes are up, it doesn't mean we're suddenly able to just turn up against the No 2 side in the world and knock them over at home. Cautious optimism is about what we're stretching to at the moment.