I work for a local government. People get all huffy about stuff like this for no good reason. Here a similar plan came to the planning commission and people biatched because it would bring down housing values and/or become college student housing.

This from a town where people are all about diversity and peace and crap, but NIMBY.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

No it's not. With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values. Ghetto is a people, not a place. Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

Sybarite:First and foremost, is the contention that residents did not receive proper notification last year when the project was introduced or as it wound its way through the planning and zoning process.

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I bet there were postings, placed parallel to the street in the empty lot, rather than at an angle that can actually be viewed by passerbys.

abfalter:People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

No it's not. With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values. Ghetto is a people, not a place. Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

/ NIMBY

My experience is absentee landlords that couldn't really give a fark who they rent to as long as the rent check is on time do far more damage to property values than "low income" home owners.

Rent Party:No it's not. With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values. Ghetto is a people, not a place. Moving it out into my nice suburban paradiseGULAG isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

Actually, one of the complaints of an older acquaintance of mine that is retired and lives in a senior living community is that you get a lot of ambulances some times and all the associated noise, as people seem to get hurt/die in clusters of activity.

Nana's Vibrator:abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

Rent Party:No it's not. With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values. Ghetto is a people, not a place. Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

Cause we all know how rowdy thos old folks can get

Slangin' and Bangin'. Dealin' crack out of their nursing home. Gold dentures. Throwin up gang signs (if their arthritis is not acting up)

Nana's Vibrator:abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

Thing is though, there is a difference between zoning for a retirement community and zoning for low-income earners. Odds are that someone with some civil planning took a closer look at the development plan and realized that it's wide open to having welfare recipients to completely dominate the area. I'm pretty sure most of you here know how easy welfare cases chase off anybody they don't like. For example: Detroit.

JohnAnnArbor:Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

Nana's Vibrator:abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

I just don't want to see those old people walking around with their sagging pants.

For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

I would need more information to know if they have a legitimate complaint.

If their "nursing homes" are anything like those in Chicago, they are basically glorified halfway houses for the mentally ill more than traditional nursing homes for the elderly.

My neighborhood is famous in the city for having a lot of such "nursing homes" in the area, and because of that it's basically an open-air asylum where the residents spend most of the day outside screaming at buildings and feeding vermin and punching the alderman. I can understand not being a fan of something like that opening in the area.

Arkanaut:Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

I just don't want to see those old people walking around with their sagging pants.

Qellaqan:For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

i just looked closer at the picture, and yup, pretty much middle-aged to old white people everywhere. they don't want poor black elderly people in the neighbourhood and having their gangbanger kids & grandkids hanging around.

Thanks. So the actual article speaks of a "laundry list" of problems with it and lots of "waivers" on the application, but can't enumerate them? I'm not really buying the "dumpster is too close to the school!" argument... the school no doubt has dumpsters as well!

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

No it's not. With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values. Ghetto is a people, not a place. Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

/ NIMBY

My experience is absentee landlords that couldn't really give a fark who they rent to as long as the rent check is on time do far more damage to property values than "low income" home owners.

Qellaqan:For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

A couple of years ago I had a landlord who was complaining to everyone about a new housing development in the neighborhood that included housing for "low income" people. To her, and I think to many (at least here) "low income" is a euphemism for "people who are probably not white."

It never occurred to her than many of her tenants qualified as "low income." And that dammit, low income people need a farking place to live too, and that shuffling poor people off to giant ghettos is a demonstrably failed idea.

Crackpipe:A couple of years ago I had a landlord who was complaining to everyone about a new housing development in the neighborhood that included housing for "low income" people. To her, and I think to many (at least here) "low income" is a euphemism for "people who are probably not white."

It never occurred to her than many of her tenants qualified as "low income." And that dammit, low income people need a farking place to live too, and that shuffling poor people off to giant ghettos is a demonstrably failed idea.

it's all about how you define low income, too.

in my area low income assistance stops at $75k combined income for a family - in an area where cost of living is like $100k for a family. So people can get houses (cheap as fark low income houses) in decent areas, but then foreclose because they can't afford the payments.

EvilEgg:Do you get increased crime with low-income seniors?Wouldn't a senior surviving on Social Security qualify as low-income?

The problem here in St. Louis is that most people hear the words Low Income and immediately think black. White people in the county here are scared of black people. That's why we can't get the light rail system anywhere close to West St. Louis county and why there is an uproar about students in unaccredited school districts being able to transfer to county schools.

Nana's Vibrator:Arkanaut: Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention. The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing. How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti? I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

I just don't want to see those old people walking around with their sagging pants.