Sunday, January 11, 2015

LIBRARIANS #108 "Heart of Darkness" Question post

A very dark little off-speed we did to see, basically, if we could do dark little off-speeds that started in non-traditional manners. The return of awesome Portland actress (now at Stanford) Lea Zwada as our Final Girl! Post questions, comments and complaints below. Two more eps, one more week!

Can I tell you how much I adore that Jake Stone was the first cast member in frame with Katie? I was hoping to hear her say she didn't like what she sees. (If she did, I missed it.) ;-) That is one fine little actress there.

Just a thought I had, watching Cassandra sit behind the wheel of the car, talking about her tumor. Should she be driving? I'm not a medical expert but driving doesn't seem like something you want the girl with the brain tumor doing.

Nice twists and turns in this ep. What's Lea's major at Stanford - aside from advanced awesomeness?

When Jake is in the dollhouse with Jones, he looks at the pictures and says "We got it wrong," like he's figured it out, but the next scene he's in, it's clear that neither he nor anyone else has figured it out - b/c Cassie has to explain it to them all. So, what did Jake actually figure out from looking at the pictures?

A question about Cassie: in the pilot, she betrays the group b/c she's told magic an cure her tumor - and Flynn gives her Cal so she can cure her tumor. But, in all the eps so far, why hasn't there been any magic that's capable of curing her tumor? Especially tonight: if the House of Refuge grants wishes (or gives people what they want/need) - and the house clearly likes Cassie - why doesn't it cure her?

Finally, thanks for putting up these posts and answering questions, and live tweeting during the airings! You mentioned there will be commentary on the DVDs - will it be on every ep and be as in-depth as the commentary on the Leverage DVDs? Because those commentary tracks rival the commentary tracks on the Lord of the Rings DVDs, in that they are just crammed with interesting things and I'd buy the DVDs if all they had on them were the commentary tracks!

So, yeah, thanks for being an awesome writer, director, producer, show runner, and person.

I've been following the series and it is interesting but does the character of Stone have a point - as the last few eps others have been put to the fore - and worryingly Cassandra math ability seems to be becoming a little bit of a crutch - any big problem let her do her hallicunation and its fixed? Jones gets a little time to shine and Baird does have the whole authority thing - but it does seems to be a little the Cassandra and her helpers show. Baird is an interesting character, Jenkins too.

A couple behind here in dear old Blighty, but thought I should let you know (one former Physicist to another) that my twin 12 year olds are loving The Librarians. Loving it. It's the current "family" watch.Credit due as well for doing the UK scenes well (such as driving on the left, though using a French car seemed random). BTW for those worried about Christmas being surprisingly warm in London, it is currently 8 degC here = 46F.But of course, we still do expect those (totally non-paying) remaining Leverage episode blogs.

After sleeping on it, I'm wondering if Katie's "friends" were already dead by the time the LiT's arrived? Were they even from the same time/place at all? Seems like a pretty effective way to lure more victims in.

I really enjoy how magic works in this TV series. Got the whole 'magic as a Platonic symbol' thing going on. Using archetypes makes sense.

I also love that we get answers rather quickly. I hate it when TV shows keep dicking around for way too long. I enjoy how this show poses a question and starts answering in a quicker pace. But I guess that may be a side effect of the very short season. And honestly, the world needs more short series, BBC-style.

I've tried to get into older shows like Alias or Superatural, and I just can't, because they have, like, 10 seasons of 23 eps each. Its too much.

To what extent, if any, was the structure of the episode influenced by Betrayal at House on the Hill? Obviously, BHH is meant to model Haunted House stories of the type you're addressing here, but is the incredible similarity between the episode and a game of BHH due to the shared sources or a direct influence?

Loved all of your episodes so far! Really hope that there'll be a season 2. Just wondering some things... 1) Can you give us a rundown of everyone's ages? (Eve, Cassandra, Ezekiel, Jake, Jenkins) 2) What happened to Katie's family after they found the house? Did Katie wish for them to die? Did the house kill them? 2a) Is Katie a ghost or what? How did she find 21st century clothes to dress in if she was from the 1800s? 2b) So why did Katie play the ruse of a poor, innocent victim for so long with the Librarians? Couldn't she have just lured them into the house and killed them the first time around? 3) What was the purpose of the dollhouse that Jake and Ezekiel (and presumably Eve) were trapped in? Was it a way for the house to try to protect them? 4) Exactly what happened to Eve while she was fighting the giant black grim reaper? Given the fact that she was really grouchy and out of it at the end, to the point where she fell asleep on Jake's shoulder. Shouldn't she, as an colonel and counter-terrorism agent, have gone through worse fights/injuries than that? 5) So Eve signed those transfer papers from the NATO taskforce back in 'the Apple of Discord'. What did she tell her superiors for the reason for her transfer from counter-terrorism to work at a library of all places?

1. The rest of the team was inside the dollhouse, which is in the room that Cassie and Katie's confrontation. Were they able to see/hear any of it?

2. Lindy Booth blew me away with her "Angel of Death" scene. Do you have any notes or commentary on that you can share?

3. Will we get to see more of Jake helping Cassandra when she falls into her synesthetic hallucinations? They really strike me as two sides of the same coin and I would really like to see more of them interacting.

Re: Madhatter360's question about Cassandra driving, I figure it's a similar risk of the driver losing consciousness behind the wheel due to epilepsy. The Epilepsy Australia website boils it down to getting medical clearance, making sure you take your meds / get rest etc and refers to this statistic: drivers with epilepsy are involved in crashes at about 1.8 times the normal frequency while all males <25 years are 7 times the normal frequency.

Had a look at other jurisdictions on driving with a brain tumour- sudden loss of consciousness is still the biggest risk. Other factors like recent fits, inability to move limbs and dizziness are factored into driving assessments from your doctor and sometimes lead to a year+ waiting period (e.g. the UK). It's pretty interesting! Cassandra still looks fine to drive.

I really enjoyed this one. I usually dislike horror on TV because commercials ruin the emotional build-up. Perhaps the fact that you weren't really writing with "act breaks" in mind actually helped instead of hurt it.

Questions

1) Are the LITs going to get arms training? I know they were stalking ghosts, and that if the tire iron and candlestick were made of cold iron, they would be effective (assuming you are sticking to the traditional ghost lore). However, they aren't exactly great "room clearing" tools.

2) It seemed a bit odd that the dimensions of the house were changing and the other LITS didn't get Cassandra. It seems like her wheelhouse. Were they just worried because of the nose bleeds?

3) This may have just gone over my head, but what precisely was Katie's need? Was it just straight killing people or was there more to it? I feel like it should be more complex and layered, but I may just be overcomplicating it.

I know Ive said before, but thank you again. These posts are delightful.

Kudos all around, to Lea and Lindy especially. I loved this twist on the Haunted House concept, and I do hope that the wonderful Refuge Butler shows up again later, as the dollhouse in the backseat implied might be the case.

Should we assume that the reason that the Smokey Butler knocked out Baird was to get her as far away from Katie as possible?

Random question, not directly pertaining to this episode. We see Ezekiel playing some video games -- do any of the other characters have any sort of interest in games or other related geeky stuff? I still fondly remember Hardison bonding with an officemate over her workplace-as-WorldofWarcraft metaphor ("For the Horde!"), so I freely admit I'd love to see similar bits from one or more of the Librarians.

I see a lot of online discussion of Cassandra's clothing choices, and my guess isn't that the costume department hates her - it's that she dresses like a teenager because she's stuck at age 15 when her life changed. And hi to Lea from Stanford!

I liked this episode a lot! But here I noticed the episodes haven't aired in the original/intended order, that bothered me a bit. Lindy was terrific in this episode and I liked the horror-esque story. I've enjoyed the series more and more by each week.

First, I have to say that we absolutely love this show. We love the fun quirkiness of it. However, and I see we are in the minority on this blog here, but we did not care at all for the last episode. It was way too dark for us. We love the light hearted fun of the other episodes...not horror fans AT ALL. We hope that you don't do these too often.

The house was grabbing the librarians, one by one, to save them from Katie. Okay. What about all the other people who disappeared in the house over the years? Did the house manage to save them, too? If so, where are they? Or did the house fail to save them? In that case, why did it succeed this time?

The House was a wonderful character! My daughter (fresh from Eng Comp 101) argues persuasively that the House of Refuge and the Shatterbox (Shadowbox?) are the same place. Is she right?

The House of Refuge was initially, erm, a refuge. Jenkins says the Shatterbox was only around for about a century... which is about when Katie Bender encountered the House of Refuge. The House was forced to help Katie, against its will. My daughter thinks the House's attempts to violently / emphatically warn people away before they could be murdered gave rise to the terrifying new legend of the Shatterbox.

The consensus around the dinnertable is that it's a plausible theory. Is it correct?

@Janele Scott: I think I would've had a similar reaction (to this episode being a horror episode) if not for the writers' vlog on iTunes. As it were, I watched the writers' vlog first and it gave me a "heads up, here comes our take on the horror episode (which is not really a horror episode)". So what happened is I ended up really appreciating exploring the character of a serial killer in a "safe space" of a show that I know won't turn into something that's dark or graphic or will conclude that everything in the world is morally ambiguous. (The character of Katie was fascinating.)

You now seem to have more control over what makes it to the screen than in the past, when writing for Hollywood. Are you ever tempted to re-visit an idea that you wrote about in the past, but was changed or ruined due to executive meddling?

For example, does a Librarians episode about magic being used to reverse the Earth's magnetic poles sound tempting... or am I suggesting something that writers would regard as hubris or sour grapes?

I adore the layers you continue to build up around Cassandra. She feels like the most developed character at this point. I know there are plans in the upcoming episodes to reveal more about Stone's origins/reasons for living a double life. Anything such plans for Ezekiel? I'm dying to learn more about him.

1. How much of the final showdown between Katie and Cassandra did the others hear/see? It did not seem like they did, but *something* seems to have changed how they look at Cassandra and it is hard to see what else it could be.2. Is this going to be a wake-up call for Baird that Stone's fighting skills do not make him more competent/skilled/dependable than the others? Nice touch by the way in subverting the idea that the best heroes are the ones who can fight.3. Is there a reason that Cassandra's intuitive grasp of things magical (as opposed to using their existing knowledge base to reason forward into an answer seems better than the other LITs/Baird? Is this the "brain grape", my imagination, or something else?

I just want to say that I didn't count on you actually scaring me in a I'm-about-to-bolt-out-of-the-television's-sight-any-second kind of way. In the Philippines, we have a white lady urban legend so establishing Katie in that would have ensured nightmares save only for the fact that it's broad daylight in my timezone. But still, the tone shift was terrifying. And thank you for not using mirrors, that might have been the last straw. Congratulations on that, I guess?

Now, onto the questions:1. Did the ghost really have to knock out Eve that badly? The kind butler didn't leave a black eye to Stone or Ezekiel but the scene where she's unconscious and dragged up the stairs? I was mortified.2. The consensus that Baird doesn't trust Cassandra isn't fully right. She's more concerned on the latter's health, especially after seeing Cassandra's nosebleeding episode. Eve knows she's more than just "math girl", just like the way Katie put it in the car conversation. Or it's Cassandra reading Eve's concern wrong, because of her own insecurities. I remember the whiteboard photo and how it says "big sis/lil sis" + "how do we be friends" and I know this episode was meant to be in the first half so I trust they've worked out that part.3. How did they get out of the dollhouse while Cassandra blacked out? It didn't seem that long. I want to ask about the dollhouse appearing in the back of the car in the closing scene - do they still need the House of Refuge at some point but it's probably spoiler-y.4. Eve's line about "I want something to shoot" is evident that at that time, she isn't used to confronting intangible threats that is a direct implication of knowing that magic exists. It's frustrating but she's obviously trying to cope.

Not a specific question for this episode, but: I've read somewhere that Kane studied History of Art at university. Is that true? I had forgotten about it until this show was about to begin and I read his character was supposed to be a history of art expert, and it made me wonder.

1) How was the Grim Reaper/shadow being done? How much of it was practical effects/a stunt guy, and how much of it was CGI?

2) Was the dollhouse thing a reference to "The Twilight Zone"? Or just coincidence?

3) With the wacky physics of the house, was there any consideration of doing the "Scooby Doo Chase Scene Through Various Doors" thing?

4) This episode seemed to have upped the sense of danger for our heroes and there were one or two times I thought for a second they were done for. So I got to ask: on a scale of 1 (being "Barney the Purple Dinosaur") to 10 ("Game of Thrones"), what is the level of likelihood of a main character dying?

Was the house taking advantage of the broken ley lines? Or did it break the ley lines in attempt to get help from someone who understood magic? I'm guessing a house of refuge would be able to take any form appropriate to the region, so the architecture was another warning sign/clue hammer.

In my early 20s I worked on a small town newspaper. A lot of issues you discuss in show development such as working late to meet deadlines, meeting budgets, having to cut material to fit the available space--well, it brought back the good ole newspaper days for me. I really enjoyed Leverage and hope it returns someday, as a series or movie. Heart of Darkness is my favorite episode of Librarians so far. Very creepy house. My first reaction to Cassandra's clothing choices was just confusion--it sort of looks like four or five things she grabbed from the closet and put on. I wonder if this reflects her own internal confusion. I really enjoy the Ezekiel Jones character because of his abrasiveness. I think we all have these abrasive people in our families or our "work families." We have to roll with it because they're in our lives daily. I like seeing how the other characters react to his self-centeredness.Thank you for this great show!

1) From the trailer: Foreshadowing. "History is falling apart" and "I believe I have found away to bring back the library." Why do I feel like this is all going to be Flynn's fault?

A) I don't know if I missed that or it was cut, but the nosebleed provides a much better impetus for Baird treating Cassandra like glass.Also, this one really needs to be restored to before Science Fair, because it doesn't make sense for Cassandra to be angry with Jones calling her 'Math Girl' after the 'Mathemagics' trophy. Everyone else, sure.

B) Lea Zawada is amazing. Please tell her I said so.

C) Dammit. I wanted Lea to be a Junior LIT. But she's busy being future!Parker, isn't she?

D) @John Seavey, Prayer weasels?

2) There's no reason he would have remembered it while the whole mess was going on, but had Stone heard of the Bloody Benders? Labette County is on the Oklahoma border, after all.

E) Ezekiel's genre-savviness makes him that much more terrifying, in an awesome way, but terrifying.

F) I love the board. I love any notes or snippets you give us about process and writing, and I absolutely love seeing how you guys think. Please feel free to drop any snippets of that that you like.

I have to admit I didn't find this episode that scary, but really interesting for the character moments. I think lately Arrow and Person of Interest have kind of broken my lower limit for characters in peril, fear response. However was great to see a little further into the broken, oh so slightly repressed mind of Cassandra, and Lindy was stunning here, there was such bitterness and self-loathing showing in that moment.

Q 1. Was Cassie applying just a little bit of her force ratio logic to that fight with Katie there? And is it so wrong to love watching Cassie kick loose like that.

Stone pointing out the fact the architectural style didn't belong in the middle of a Slovakian forest! It’s silly little things like that, which can make or break my suspension of disbelief. I know a chunk of people wouldn't notice something like that, but glossing over *realllly* simple stuff like that is what’s making it harder and harder for me to keep watching Doctor Who…I will not rant about Who, I will not rant about Who!

Baird happily ignoring Jones. Possibly not the smartest thing to do, but the most understandable given his continuing obnoxiousness over his own awesomeness. Jones wandering around less then enthusiastically, like a bored kid trailing his parents around the shops. Even in the midst of the danger, he’s …just doesn't seem really engaged.

Q 2: Does some part of Jones still think that he can’t get hurt, that nothing will stick to him? Or is it just a case that his social armour, that of the slick carefree thief, much like Stone’s “Good ol boy” routine, is too firmly in place?

I don't think anyone has said it yet, so I guess I'll be the first. But I really like that Jake (since Kane is usually some kind of fighter) has a limited knowledge in fighting. I don't know why, but the idea of him being this hidden arty geek makes me grin. And I would love to see him get an episode where he gets to fanboy out over art, much like Cassie did over the science fair.

Also, background on Zeke? Greatly wanted!

Cassandra's speech over her looking death in the face everyday made me cry. It was such a moment. We all know about her tumor, and she's had some softly sad moments before, but this is the first time we really get to see her breaking down over it and giving us a glimpse of how much it affects her. And knowing she's had it since she was 15 and has known she was going to die? Broke my heart. Btw, how old is she? Curious as to how long she's known she was dying.

So after rewatching the episode and focusing on the house answering people's "needs" not just granting wishes, I guess that Cassandra's "need" to defeat death for a longer period of time and thus stronger, is why she was able to kill Katie, who had become the "angel of death"?

If the house was able to hide the Librarians in the doll house, why didn't it do that before to all the other victims?

I loved the strength of the scene where Cassie confronts Katie and explains the hardship of confronting her early death sentence. Will this be addressed further, especially between Cassie and her colleagues?

Not sure if this was asked already but was ezekiel picking up the candle stick a reference to him being the rogue in the fables of doom episode? "Jack be nimble, jack be quick, jack jumped over the candle stick"

I really loved this idea of the team having to save the haunted house from the little girl (instead of the little girl from the haunted house).

Possibly really dumb question: Is Ezekiel Asian? Lots of people here seem to think he's Asian, perhaps because the actor is, but, I've seen black guys play Hamlet and Robespierre (from Danton's Death), who were white in-universe, so I don't want to assume.

A question that comes from 107, but covers the whole season/mythology: Morgan Le Fay asks Col. Baird if she's a Librarian. Have their been female Librarians? I assume there have been, but you know about assuming. If there have been, is there anybody we'd recognize?

The connections that you make early in your career will take you far. After 20 years it is still true for me. This has been true regarding companies I worked for and those I worked with. All you have written is excellent advice.

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