Question of the Day: True Story?

“Obama will seek to turn the tables on those acusing him of breaking his oath by saying he is upholding his oath to protect the Constitution from enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. A new, emotionally based term will emerge in the near future encompassing most of the people that would post here. This site itself could be viewed as a militant group of gun owners who meet regularly on the internet and often badmouth LEOs and troops. All the talk about what we would do if they come for our guns, and what it would take to start shooting can easily be turned against us along with the photos of our big gun collections and the many thousands of rounds of ammo we use for training. With all the hits this blog gets from across the country what if RF took an active anti govt stance?

“What if he advocated armed insurrection under certain circumstances instead of just threatening to move to TX? Is this site a loosely organized, internet militia? Don’t think for a second that there are not people working behind closed doors right now seeking ways to use the media to popularize a new definition of domestic terrorists that encompasses all of us. It’s all about control. They already control the first amendment rights. Like Ralph has pointed out the 1A is a fiction of the past. Now they will use it to make the 2A an element of our barbaric past.”

Possible? Probable? I hope I’m wrong, but I think crunch time is coming. It could play out this way . . .

New Yorkers will not, in the main, register their ARs. Someone will rat out someone who owns an illegal AR (30-round mags an all) and some police chief will think it’s his job to go in and get the damn thing and some homeowner will defend his AR with his AR and a SWAT cop or two will get shot and the media will go CRAZY.

At that point, or even before, kevhead’s scenario kicks in. The MSM paints all “assault rifle” owners as madmen/proto-terrorists. The press spreads that meme to include all gun owners, as they did when the Tea Party was ascendant. Call it the James Yeagerization of America.

The ATF gets involved. Someone else gets a visit and does not quietly into that long night go. Or they do, and they become a lightning rod for increased opposition.

All hell breaks loose. At that point, all bets are off. God help us, I hope it never comes anywhere near that. But if it does, yup, I get the proverbial knock in the middle of the night and TTAG goes dark.

Question: are kevhead and I paranoid loons?

123 Responses to Question of the Day: True Story?

I have a question? Where are all the TTAG news reports of shootings like in NM, TX an KY? I believe reports like that would make for a more balanced site and would put things like the ethics and morality of guns in a more balanced perspective.

Good idea!
Here in Illinois, we can add all the shootings that happen every single day and often, hourly! We kill ’em young and old, innocent, and banger, anyone!
We are a non discriminating gun free society by law!

No. This story can be conceived of by the pro-gun people and the anti-people alike. The media has already framed gun owners in this way and been trying to increase acceptance of that stereotype for decades. They are doing it because it is the “last best hope” of getting what they want.

Already there; NDAA. Under NDAA, the POTUS can pretty much designate anyone or any group as a terrorist organization and those folks have no legal protections. This also applies to those “found” giving “aid and comfort” or financial support to those designated groups (such as membership dues or donations *cough* *cough*) “Black-bagging” arrests – where you “dist-appear” and are never heard from again. No formal charges. No trial. Indefinite detention. It designated the United States a “battlefield” and allows the imposition of the laws of war on citizens. Then there’s this:

The entire globe is the “battlefield”. And they don’t have to bother “disappearing” you, they can simply destroy you with a Predator drone. There’s a reason they killed Al-Awlaki the way they did. It had nothing to do with terrorism and had everything to do with Al-Awlaki’s US citizenship.

Yes, right, gun owners and gun organizations routinely threaten to kill the constitution… “If the constitution comes to take my AR I’ll shoot it right in the third amendment.” I hear that all the time.

In order to get anywhere on the Internet you have to go through your ISP’s DNS server. So you can easily be tracked via your IP address whether its static or dynamic. You can get a little anonymity on the web by using a proxy server. I think you may also be able to modify the lmhost file to resolve names and addresses for you, this would have to be used in tandem with IP spoofing though.

I guess we need to be more proactive in the labeling department then, maybe its time for us to coin a more likeable term for us, 2nd amendment supporter has become “gun nut” in the mind of others, and main stream media is demonizing the nra, maybe we should call ourselves constitutional defenders to shed some of our stereotyping. Also we need to coin a more appropriate term to make gun grabber sound awful to those on the fence, terrorist against the founding fathers, lol a bit long but this is a democratic republic and the squeaky wheel does get the grease…

HAHA! I read something like that a while back – a neighbor was hijacking a guy’s wireless so he renamed it “FBI Surveillance Van” which sparked a whole list of good ones, using various law enforcement prefixes (CIA Safe House, DEA Sting House, etc.)

As far as registration goes it’s estimated on 1-2% of “assault rifles” in NY and 10% in CA are register under current laws and nothing has happen yet. I can’t see the registration rates going up when the laws get even more restrictive.

A lot of liberals on Facebook have been calling us terrorist for a few months now. Everything they do and think they are now portraying onto us. They say we are the ones bringing the country down, Everything we believe in is just a big lie, we are merely sheep that are controlled by extremist (TTAG, Mr Colion Noir etc..), and we are more of a threat to America than Al Qaeda is.

This is all their words not mine. So yes, I think Robert is right and this is the direction Obama and the MSM will not pursue. If it weren’t for the MSM I don’t think things would be nearly as bad as they are now. IMO the MSM should be enemy number 1.

Paranoid loons? Nope. Not in the slightest. Rather, I think you, and a good many others around here, are simply voicing a possibility. A very scary, very tragic possibility…

Fact is, they’re teaching West Point cadets that right-wing “extremists” who believe in smaller government and less intrusion in their lives are “the new breed of domestic terrorists.” This fight is coming, whether we want it to or not. The fact that the idea is being discussed is a huge red flag to me. Something is in the works…

I agree with Henry, the sad reality we live in is that the situation is deteriorating. States are actively deciding where their stance is on liberty, and there are no geographic lines to tell you which side is which. People like Yeager have their line in the sand, and I truly believe that people like him in states that support civilian disarmament will kick this thing off.

The entire purpose of this Anti-Constutional Lunacy is to create a Crisis for which Zeke has the Solution.
It also makes a great smoke screen for the 1000’s of MEs flooding into America.
did you hear how the Saudis forced all their dath row inmates to fight Jihad in Syria? Do you think that may have been a Beta Test?

The scenario that Robert laid out is pretty close to what I’ve been thinking could happen. Obama, despite his claiming to want us to all “get along”, doesn’t do much to bring us together. His words usually seem to be aimed at driving a wedge between his butt-kissers and everybody else. I don’t see a very good end to the gun grab other than Congress and the Senate and the Supreme Court growing some collective balls and telling Obama “You cannot take away American’s RIGHT to KEEP AND BEAR arms. Period”. Not much chance of that I’m afraid.

Buck up, ladies and gentlemen. Fate may just call on you at a moment not-of-your-choosing, and you will help to fulfill Thomas Jefferson’s prophecy. If so, be honored. If not, cower, and accept enslavement. God help us all- especially you- if you walk quietly into that night.

And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin’ to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they’ll never take… OUR FREEDOM!

We have already seen how Red State Chief Executives and LEOs will react. They will resist any move by the Federal Government to encroach on gun rights. That means the National Guard will be called out to deal with an attempted Federal takeover.

It is doubtful that red minded LEOs will cooperate with their Blue State governors. Some will do nothing, others will resist. It will be a place by place decision. The Blue State Governors will not call out their Guard units because they will be unreliable. They will use their state controlled LEOs to assist the Feds but many will not participate.

The JCS knows that the military will fragment if used against the overall law abiding civilian population and will likely stay out of it. The Army will hide behind Posse Comitatis to avoid action. That is the best case. The worst case is that the military will step in to prevent civil war and will remove the President and Vice President. Can you say El Commandante Petreaus?

If the President moves against law abiding gun owners in blue areas using Federal LEOs he will probably get away with it. However, once he moves to less friendly areas you will probably see a lot dead Feds at the hands of National Guard and local LEOs.

The JCS knows that the military will fragment if used against the overall law abiding civilian population and will likely stay out of it.

No they wont. No other organization has deliberately killed more American citizens than the US military. They’ve been more than willing to go so far as launching air strikes with explosive and chemical ordinance such as during the Battle Of Blair Mountain in 1921.

It is doubtful that red minded LEOs will cooperate with their Blue State governors. Some will do nothing, others will resist.

They all ready grab guns from Americans on a daily basis. Where in 2A does it say that a felon, subject of a restraining order or domestic batterer can’t own a firearm?

Would the media love things to go that way. Oh, hell yeah. Would POTUS and his minions want things to go that way? No. POTUS may think he’s the reincarnation of Lincoln, but I do not believe that he actually wants to relive Lincoln’s career and preside over the death of hundreds or thousands of Americans who just happen to disagree with his bullsh!t.

Hasn’t he already killed several with drone strikes overseas? Along with hundreds of anonymous graphics-on-a-screen? In addition to just sitting back and doing nothing at Benghazi? I’m also not sold on his humility in-belief he can keep a situation from spiraling out of control.

(Edit: which is not to say striking AQ targets is a bad thing; just that depending on his pacifism and sentimentality may not be reliable.)

Salvadore Allende was the Barak Obama of his day in Chile. He went too far and ended up removed from office by General Augusto Pinochet. Allende shot himself before the General arrived to remove him. There was alledged CIA invlovement but drones weren’t invented yet.

Obama DOES believe that he is liberating slaves. These are economic slaves that only social justice and equality can cure. There is no coincidence that Obama, his minions, Pelosi and the media are liking Obama to Lincoln.

Idle speculation on the internet is just that. We have a divided government for a reason. If the legislature makes unconstitutional laws, the SC can strike them down. If the Executive takes Unconstitutional actions, the Legislature and SC can reign him in.

This Prez has done multiple things that are
borderline, if not outright, unconstitutional.
The recent EOs come to mind. Some are so
ambiguous that congress or a court is going
to need to define them in order to rule on
constitutionality. We’re not even sure whether
the Prez has the authority to issue said EOs.
And look at who is one of the main people to
act as the 1st line of defense, the attorney
general. The same man who was recently held
in contempt by congress for lying. Which
brings us to another problem.

Congress itself is a disaster. If congress had
any teeth, the Atty General would be behind
bars for the contempt order as well as the DOJ
personnel who refused to obey a lawful
congressonal order and prosecute. If they
had any integrity left, discussions for
impeachment for Fast and Furious, and the
Bengazi coverup would be nightly news.

And finally, anyone who has worked in the
American court system can tell you how
badly misplaced your trust really is.

@Steve, all I can say is Dred Scott. Divided government did not prevent that inhuman law from being validated by SCOTUS. If you think it can’t happen again, then I have to ask you to please stop Bogarting that blunt you’re puffing.

I wonder how many people saying they will shoot gun grabbers, ect… have actually been involved in a war? I fought in Iraq, and trust me, you wouldn’t want your family around that sort of chaos, murder, rape, and robbery.
Besides gun confiscation has already happened in New Orleans, and other places. It went quietly, without any resistance. Face it, active resistance will be very rare. The Iraqi’s where better armed then we will ever be. Some fought, and where crushed. They lost thousands… maybe 50k, the real figure will never be known.
I guess the resistance beat us. We are gone from Iraq, and few if any American Corporations are receiving any more benefit from the county. Will gun owners be willing to lose 50k in a civil war over the 2nd amendment. I doubt it. Am I a coward? Possibly. I am just being honest. No one in there right mind would think a tiny insurgency could beat the most powerful military on earth.
Also, when I was in the Army, I would have carried out almost any order. I don’t think troops would have a problem killing their countrymen. The only hope for victory would be if a large portion of the Army defected. Thats not going to happen either.

“Besides gun confiscation has already happened in New Orleans, and other places. It went quietly, without any resistance.”

There wasn’t a highly divisive political and imperiled constitutional backdrop to that scenario. Plus, no one knew it was happening.

America, on the other hand, is on high alert, condition red. Once you start stepping on people’s throats in a high-profile manner, their neighbors are going to come out holding pitchforks.

As for all your other predictions: We will see. It is very easy to carry out any order against someone from another country. When that order results in your homeland burning… Mass rebellion and war has been sparked by far less.

You would have followed orders to engage Americans in your own hometown? How about your parents neighberhood? If so, you’re a lot different than the men I served with. I wonder if you’re a lot different than the men you served with?

For the record, James, Iraq was nasty. I was there, and wouldn’t wish those circumstances upon anyone. Yet, I would gladly endure warfare ten times as bad to ensure that American’s rights are not signed away with a stroke of the pen.

However, as far as armed rebellion is concerned, the USSR was much better at crushing it that the USA has ever been, primarily because the USSR is much more inclined to use brutal tactics than we are. And some rag-tag Afghanis and Chechens have been able to kick the Russkies collective asses. Those same Afghanis and now the Iraqis have been able to hold off the US as well, no matter which president declares “victory”.

Furthermore, I know quite a few blooded veterans, well trained in counter-insurgency, who took their oaths seriously. ALL threats. Foreign and DOMESTIC. And their IFF isn’t broken…

The Russians carpet bombed, artillery barraged, and thermobaric munitions roasted the Chechen capital of Grozny: theyre still fighting despite the Russian governments false claim that the resistance has been dismantled.

There are more members of America’s civilian “militia” that are better armed, more experienced, better equipped, and better trained than the Iraqi or Afghan insurgencies.

@Kevheads postI think this needs to be given more attention. If this is true which I believe it is, then we are pretty much screwed. Based on Obama’s conditions all of us here on TTAG would be considered “anti-federalists” by his administration. That would allow them to jail or shoot us and because of the label the typical American citizen will not care. They will think we were some extremist.

This exchange highlights why the military will not get involved. You cannot go war against the American people if a significant part of the military won’t obey orders.

[Answer to Matt] That is why I said that the JCS will either sit it out or remove the President. The military leadership won’t do it out fidelity to the checks and balances in the Constitution. They will not actively support such a move because they still see themselves as a national Army not a party Army. We don’t have Zampolits yet. They will see a possible mutiny by a substantial number of troops as compromising their primary mission to defend the nation and not a particular President. If they saw it any other way then you get the Pinochet solution which none of us want either. [Well, maybe Matt’s ok with that.]

This thread has caused TTAG to lose a lot of credibility with me. Wasting resources on tinfoil hat topics diverts us from focusing on defending our Second Amendment rights in the correct manner and compromises us with general public who we are trying to keep on our side.

understanding the worst case scenario is possible , even though not likely, does not make one paranoid.

then math of this doesn’t work for them. Even if everything goes well, to set up a team, , get them togather, perform the action, fill out the reports, feed the agents and dogs, and get ready to go to the next location would take half a day. they don’t have anywhere near the manpower to do it. The governors aren’t going to call up the national guard to help. my city of 100K probably has 10000 households with arms. Not happening.

However: I do expect a complete demogogic attack from the pols and especialy obama demonizng us in the most vile and reprehensable way.

Anyone who seeks to deprive us of our God given right to keep and bear arms will quickly realize that there enough of us out there to make the task of confiscation the spark that ignites the powder keg. There may be some out there that say “Molon labe” strictly as “lip service,” but many will “live it” until their heart ceases beating.

So here’s a question for all of those old enough to remember the Clinton ban:

As a college student who only got into guns a few years ago, I don’t have any knowledge of the run-up to the Clinton AWB. Were there serious discussions like this being had? Or is this something new altogether?

I understand what you’re saying about the legislative nuts and bolts of all this, along with how things have changed this time (and all the motives behind it).

What I was mainly wondering about was whether there were things like Utah police pledging to die defending the Second Amendment, tons of “average Joes” drawing a hard line in the sand, and so on. Basically, gun owners’ attitudes then versus now. Have we got a stiffer spine this time around?

Perhaps you should consider backing up or moving your servers offshore. Might prevent or at least slow down a denial of service attack. Not tin foil related just good business these days. Really won’t do much to keep uncle at bay.

The President’s Oath of Office does not include the clause “to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. The Vice President, Congress, and military officers all currently use that wording, but the Presidential Oath of Office is taken directly from the Constitution, and does not use the same wording.

My bad… And I hate stupidly miss-quoting something so easily verifiable. Maybe the Founders deliberately omitted that phraseology from His oath. It makes sense to me in this context. How and when was it added to the others?

No matter how much basis in fact/evidence there is to support a possibility, there will always be people who insist that the possibility does not exist, and there’s nothing to be afraid of. I’m of hte opinion that you plan for the worst case scenario (SHTF), and work towards the goal of best case scenario. Denying that something is possible, even something that is highly unlikely, leaves you wholly unprepared when or if that something happens.

Do I think gun grabbers will be pounding on my door in the middle of the night? No, or not yet anyway. That doesn’t mean I’m going to turn a blind eye and pretend nothing will happen. When/If the four horsemen come riding over the horizon, it’ll be too late to prepare.

I’m sure there were plenty of people in Germany in the 1930s who thought their government would NEVER, -EVER- be capable of genocide.

What’s worse, when it started to happen, they all looked the other way.

For those of you who acknowledge that the holocaust happened- and of you, those who say we must learn from history- if you say that such things as what has been discussed in here could never happen, you are a disgrace to your fellow man. These things can happen, and they have happened- in MUCH more civil societies than what we find ourselves in today.

I can’t tell if we’re on the same side, although I’m leaning towards yes. While I don’t think that the worst case is imminent just yet, there are plenty of signs indicating things can get very real very fast without some serious intervention by actual common sense, not the “common sense” that the grabbers preach.

Taken out of context I can see why you would view the lead in here showing how BO will “turn the tables” as me being on his Almighty side. I AM NOT! I probably agree with you way more than you think, and more than it’s prudent to admit publicly 😉 My biggest criticism of this site is the free wheeling editing of comments that IMHO borders on censorship. It’s the reason I have not posted here in several months, but we need to join together to overcome, and If I post here I have to accept it.

In a similar vein certain a certain segment of the govt has already started the battle with the preppers:

I would bet that bank accounts being frozen and wages being garnished would be the more likely step. Much easier to drain an account and safer too. If they know which doors to knock on, then they know which bank accounts to seize.

Grass roots is always the answer, with a bit of help from social media, and a constant check keeping of the actual radicals, which we all know do exist, will make them loose and us win. Hows that debate about armed officers in schools going for ya main stream media? How about your attack on the NRA? hahaha

Great discussion and a lot to think about and consider.
I am retired as both a soldier and as a LEO. I have lived my Oath to both services my whole life as I was raised to do. I believe my son was raised in the same way and feels the same as i do.
Having said that, I think I owe all of the generations after me an abject apology for not having done enough to prevent where we now find ourselves.
It’s almost like being frozen in slow motion, standing in a room filled with gas fumes and watching the idiot over in the corner pulling out a bic to light his cigarette and knowing that he is just out of reach and you won’t be able to stop it.

I think that if the SWAT scenario were to happen once to a lone gunman the liberal media would run with it. But it probably won’t happen just once. What’s more, it may not be just LEOs and perps that get hurt. What happens when a LEO’s bullets kill a 14 year old boy and his mother? Remember in the 90s the government’s reputation and in particular the federal law enforcement agencies suffered irreparable damage from the Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian incidences. They pushed thousands into militia movements and help popularize the very weapons their trying to ban now. The liberal media couldn’t shield the government from a general feeling that it had grown too big for it’s britches and helped wipe out the Democratic House in ’94. Next thing you know ol’ Slick Willie was announcing the “end of the era of big government”.

The GAO said last week that the current spending by the government is “unsustainable.” He knows that but will probably not stop spending. Sooner or later the dollar will collapse, along with the economy. When that happens the SHTF. So, now is a good time to try to get as many civilian guns as possible so that martial law goes a bit smoother. They also have the upcoming UN treaty card in their hand. I don’t think all these things are mere coincidence.

Pray it doesn’t happen but prepare to defend yourself. BTW../I bet TTAG is on the FBI favorite reading list.

With so much chaos, someone will do something stupid. And when they do, things will turn nasty. And then Sutler will be forced to do the only thing he knows how to do. At which point, all V needs to do is keep his word. And then…

V for Vendetta seems to be coming true. Britain is a police state. The extremists on both sides are predicting either a civil war or a WROL situation in America.

You know, my hope is that in 20 or 30 years, my LT and I can sit down on his porch, in a rocking chair, cigars and scotch in hand and joke about what idiots we were back in the day, thinking that there was a possibility of needing to take up arms to defend our freedom.

Of course we all take a risk posting here, Mr. Farago and company many times over. I appreciate their work, and willingness to risk who knows what.
Bottom line, I think the current politicians will do anything they can get away with. It is up to us to make sure that is very little. I reupped NRA, and donated to GOA. These are paltry actions, but I hope they mean something.

While still unlikely, Barry is really starting to unfurl his batlike libtard demon wings and one should be watchful of everything going on. The question is, how will NY react to these draconian laws, and, will it spread?