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Basically, I say "First, do no harm." I think that people should work for changes where they are, because they have better access to information about local happenings. I doubt any use Perl; readers, for instance, have actually been to Afghanistan recently.

Focusing on local problems also prevents local strongmen from distracting us from our problems by saying "Look! Over there!"

But again:), the UN Security Council has determined, and reaffirmed in dozens (?) of resolutions over 12 years, that Iraq must be disarmed. France has agreed, Russia has agreed, China has agreed. That Iraq must be disarmed is, in the UN Security Council, not a matter of debate. And your ideas, while interesting, do not address that mandate.

Fine, don't trust them. It doesn't change the fact that the Security Council has decided Iraq will be disarmed of NBC weapons and missles that are capable of execeeding a 150km range, and that if inspections fail -- as they have failed, and continue to fail -- then further steps will be taken to effect that disarmament. Frankly, if you aren't acknowledging these facts in the discussion, and talking about how to disarm Iraq, you're just making noise. It's like going to a business meeting on how to cut exp

1) The governments on the Security Council don't really care what you or I think.2) As you say, they will do various things -- I fully acknowledge that they will probably invade Iraq and install some sort of authoritarian military regime, and keep a US military presence in the country indefinitely.3) I think that these actions will not really help anyone. The likelihood that the actions will take place doesn't affect whether I support them or not.4) The behavior of the US government *is* an issue here.

2) I don't know who "they" is, but as I gave evidence of in the previous discussion, all the actual evidence I've seen shows that the US will not installing anyone into power, and that the person the US has given its blessing to (who is making a move for power of his own accord) is anything BUT authoritarian. I prefer to look at actual evidence when available than to speculate wildly.

That URL offers no evidence that the person the US has given its blessing to is authoritarian. In fact, it does not even mention the person by name. You were giving this URL in direct response to my assertion of this, so... I don't see the point.

And wow, what a horrible article. That reporter just sucks. It says that some Kurdish officials say that the US is abandoning plans for democracy in Iraq, but I don't find that to be intere

This has nothing to do with liberation, or Hussein being a nasty person. You are flatly mistaken. It is about disarmament. I've been preaching this mantra -- the same one the UN has been preaching for 12 years; the same one that the US has been preaching for 12 years; the same one that all governments in the area, that all governments in Europe, have acknowledged is the primary issue -- and you insist on attempting to frame it in other terms.

I know, I know, I said I would not respond. But I am trying to help you understand. I am too kind.

If the US government were disarming other governments with nasty weapons, there are lots of better targets: South Africa, North Korea, Russia, China, Britain, and France.

Not one of those countries is required by the UN Security Council to disarm. Not one of those countries unconditionally agreed with the UN Security Council to disarm. Your comparisons are uninteresting in the discussion at hand.

Please help me understand your point of view by answering my oft-repeated questions: why do you take what these governments say at face value? Are you at all familiar with the historical record of these governments?

I didn't answer it because it was irrelevant. I don't take what the governments say at face value. "Have you stopped beating your mother?"

But even if I did: EVERY government involved has agreed that Iraq must be disarmed, and that if inspections fail, other means shall be taken. It is not "these" governments, it is all of them, including Iraq. For that one just needs to read the record, which I have been quoting; you don't need to take anyone's word for it.

Yes, I realized after posting that I should have worded that differently. Please excuse the rhetorical mistake.

EVERY government involved

News flash: NO government in the world is interested in helping out you, or any other individual. NO government will preserve your liberty, or keep you warm at night any longer that it has to. Note how EVERY government has agreed to nasty copyright and patent law, how EVERY government pushes for what's "good for business," and