Making this type of commitment with people you do not know is typically doomed to failure, as one will insist he/she is the primary owner of either the land or idea and thus in charge.

Bottom line is that communes failed for this reason and the socialist notion of shared labor never happened remotely equally and distribution of assets was trickle down thus wage for labor would be far better.

Best bet is to have property in two different locations thus if one area looks bad you can fall back to the other however vigilance would be required.

Making this type of commitment with people you do not know is typically doomed to failure, as one will insist he/she is the primary owner of either the land or idea and thus in charge.

Bottom line is that communes failed for this reason and the socialist notion of shared labor never happened remotely equally and distribution of assets was trickle down thus wage for labor would be far better.

Best bet is to have property in two different locations thus if one area looks bad you can fall back to the other however vigilance would be required.

Quoting: SilverPatriot

This...its bad enough with family, doing it in this way with people you don't know would be even worse.

having land is great but you still have to have an income until things are up and running.How much planning have you done?Are you gonna sharecrop or is this a buy in deal?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17687147

I intend ln makibg it self sufficient quickpythrough sellig small game and poultry

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24520447

Your kidding right...? Do you know how much game and poultry you would have to have to live as you put it. First off you can't just sell game. You need tags to hunt and you only get one. Its illegal to sell game. You can eat yourself what you kill but can't sell it.

Poultry...Ha ha ha. Chickens and Turkeys are alot of work. You need feed for them that you buy at a store. 10 chickens over the course of a year eat alot. 200lbs of starter feed when you get your chicks. Then about 80 lbs a month. Do the math. Feed is about 10 bucks a bag give or take. Going up right now.

Saying if you were to do this right now. 10 acres will cost you what... then solar to run it will be 20k. then outbuildings for livestock another 20k. drilling a well 10-20k. Fencing 5k. Tractor to till the ground and keep things up min 10k. should I keep going. Even a one room cabin by the time you get wood stoves and alike for it would run you 15k. If you don't have a farming background and know what your doing before you do it you will fall on your face hard.

Not that easy. I bought a place 12 years ago and it has taken a long time to get everything in place to be self sufficient.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21948869

Kudos, really. You must know from experience then: You don't do it all at once, its a slowly built system over many many years to become truly self-sufficient. One might hold off on livestock until they had the means to feed them without the usage of much outside feeds in order to prevent what you described above. Same thing for the other items, you can't expect to do it all at once you'll freaking kill yourself and I doubt many are that rich.

having land is great but you still have to have an income until things are up and running.How much planning have you done?Are you gonna sharecrop or is this a buy in deal?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17687147

I intend ln makibg it self sufficient quickpythrough sellig small game and poultry

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24520447

Your kidding right...? Do you know how much game and poultry you would have to have to live as you put it. First off you can't just sell game. You need tags to hunt and you only get one. Its illegal to sell game. You can eat yourself what you kill but can't sell it.

Poultry...Ha ha ha. Chickens and Turkeys are alot of work. You need feed for them that you buy at a store. 10 chickens over the course of a year eat alot. 200lbs of starter feed when you get your chicks. Then about 80 lbs a month. Do the math. Feed is about 10 bucks a bag give or take. Going up right now.

Saying if you were to do this right now. 10 acres will cost you what... then solar to run it will be 20k. then outbuildings for livestock another 20k. drilling a well 10-20k. Fencing 5k. Tractor to till the ground and keep things up min 10k. should I keep going. Even a one room cabin by the time you get wood stoves and alike for it would run you 15k. If you don't have a farming background and know what your doing before you do it you will fall on your face hard.

Not that easy. I bought a place 12 years ago and it has taken a long time to get everything in place to be self sufficient.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21948869

Kudos, really. You must know from experience then: You don't do it all at once, its a slowly built system over many many years to become truly self-sufficient. One might hold off on livestock until they had the means to feed them without the usage of much outside feeds in order to prevent what you described above. Same thing for the other items, you can't expect to do it all at once you'll freaking kill yourself and I doubt many are that rich.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1292637

Good point...I know with us starting our garden a few years ago there was a learning curve and lots of trial and error. I imagine on a full size scale of self sufficiency it would take even longer.

Hey OP, check out living off the grid on Facbook. Great story how nineteen people tried to start a eco-community like you propose. They even had land and had pallet cabins built. Unfortunately the small town they resided near blocked them from building anymore, so they left to find a better spot in colorado. If you friend them, you may find out some valuable info before starting this.OP keep doing what your doing its great! L:aura bow if you have nothing positive to say shut up!!!! I see what your doing making this man question himself, I know for a fact threads like this are hated on here! OP great ideal just plan real hard, make calls to the county and make sure your property is unrestricted! I would personally love to do this!

By the way I am American and I am married to a native of that country.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24771361

which country?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27521009

China

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24771361

Is it safe in China for expat living?

If China's economy collapses, will it be safe for expats there then?

Does leaving one totalitarian regime to relocate to another make sense?

Or, are you talking about the wild western China?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22911814

The place is in the Dragons spine region which is the rice breadbasket of China located in the southeast. It is currently a tourist destination which sees a lot of non Chinese. I have lived there and currently feel it is safe for foreigners, although there is an international airport less than an hour away and access to vietnam is about 3 hours away by car.

As for a totalitarian regime that is a matter of opinion.

Also if the world goes to hell nowhere is going to be completely safe.

Hey OP, check out living off the grid on Facbook. Great story how nineteen people tried to start a eco-community like you propose. They even had land and had pallet cabins built. Unfortunately the small town they resided near blocked them from building anymore, so they left to find a better spot in colorado. If you friend them, you may find out some valuable info before starting this.OP keep doing what your doing its great! L:aura bow if you have nothing positive to say shut up!!!! I see what your doing making this man question himself, I know for a fact threads like this are hated on here! OP great ideal just plan real hard, make calls to the county and make sure your property is unrestricted! I would personally love to do this!

Quoting: BCaudill77

So you want me to tell him it will be all roses? Get real, that's why I asked if he could at least outline his strengths and weaknesses.

I intend ln makibg it self sufficient quickpythrough sellig small game and poultry

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24520447

Your kidding right...? Do you know how much game and poultry you would have to have to live as you put it. First off you can't just sell game. You need tags to hunt and you only get one. Its illegal to sell game. You can eat yourself what you kill but can't sell it.

Poultry...Ha ha ha. Chickens and Turkeys are alot of work. You need feed for them that you buy at a store. 10 chickens over the course of a year eat alot. 200lbs of starter feed when you get your chicks. Then about 80 lbs a month. Do the math. Feed is about 10 bucks a bag give or take. Going up right now.

Saying if you were to do this right now. 10 acres will cost you what... then solar to run it will be 20k. then outbuildings for livestock another 20k. drilling a well 10-20k. Fencing 5k. Tractor to till the ground and keep things up min 10k. should I keep going. Even a one room cabin by the time you get wood stoves and alike for it would run you 15k. If you don't have a farming background and know what your doing before you do it you will fall on your face hard.

Not that easy. I bought a place 12 years ago and it has taken a long time to get everything in place to be self sufficient.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21948869

Kudos, really. You must know from experience then: You don't do it all at once, its a slowly built system over many many years to become truly self-sufficient. One might hold off on livestock until they had the means to feed them without the usage of much outside feeds in order to prevent what you described above. Same thing for the other items, you can't expect to do it all at once you'll freaking kill yourself and I doubt many are that rich.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1292637

Good point...I know with us starting our garden a few years ago there was a learning curve and lots of trial and error. I imagine on a full size scale of self sufficiency it would take even longer.

Quoting: Laura Bow

Can you be any more negative, LAura Bow? Go find someone else to pester! You talk a good game just take it somewhere else! He is a grown man and if nothing is ever ventured nothing is ever gained! Go for it, go for it tomorrow! You can and will overcome ANY obstacle specially with the right people by your side!

The powers that be are making it illegal to live off the grid. Just look at what they've done to people who tried that. They send in the authorities to say you violated a list of laws and then they take away your home! They are going after the homeless in every city, passing laws that prohibit pan-handling, camping, and they trump up charges to send them to jail. Homeland Security doesn't want anyone spending cash, they want to track our every movement via electronic banking.

OP, I am here for you and believe strongly in your dream! I will do the same one day myself and encourage everyone to at least try, start small and build your way there, rome wasnt built in a day and neither will a successful farm.

Your kidding right...? Do you know how much game and poultry you would have to have to live as you put it. First off you can't just sell game. You need tags to hunt and you only get one. Its illegal to sell game. You can eat yourself what you kill but can't sell it.

Poultry...Ha ha ha. Chickens and Turkeys are alot of work. You need feed for them that you buy at a store. 10 chickens over the course of a year eat alot. 200lbs of starter feed when you get your chicks. Then about 80 lbs a month. Do the math. Feed is about 10 bucks a bag give or take. Going up right now.

Saying if you were to do this right now. 10 acres will cost you what... then solar to run it will be 20k. then outbuildings for livestock another 20k. drilling a well 10-20k. Fencing 5k. Tractor to till the ground and keep things up min 10k. should I keep going. Even a one room cabin by the time you get wood stoves and alike for it would run you 15k. If you don't have a farming background and know what your doing before you do it you will fall on your face hard.

Not that easy. I bought a place 12 years ago and it has taken a long time to get everything in place to be self sufficient.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21948869

Kudos, really. You must know from experience then: You don't do it all at once, its a slowly built system over many many years to become truly self-sufficient. One might hold off on livestock until they had the means to feed them without the usage of much outside feeds in order to prevent what you described above. Same thing for the other items, you can't expect to do it all at once you'll freaking kill yourself and I doubt many are that rich.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1292637

Good point...I know with us starting our garden a few years ago there was a learning curve and lots of trial and error. I imagine on a full size scale of self sufficiency it would take even longer.

Quoting: Laura Bow

Can you be any more negative, LAura Bow? Go find someone else to pester! You talk a good game just take it somewhere else! He is a grown man and if nothing is ever ventured nothing is ever gained! Go for it, go for it tomorrow! You can and will overcome ANY obstacle specially with the right people by your side!

Quoting: BCaudill77

Wow you seriously think that there wouldn't be a learning curve to living off the land?????? You're right hes a grown man (or woman OP didn't say) and as such should learn to take advice and either take it OR not. Sorry if you think its negative but that was my experience an I posted as such.

Yeah your just here to make him question if he can do it or not, not to kill his resolve by pointing out the hardships huh?

Quoting: BCaudill77

So you're saying he should only have people tell him the good things and he should be unaware of any obstacles? That's pretty cruel. For example, in Pennsylvania, if you own even one chicken you need to have a manure management plan and paperwork on hand in case someone comes knocking. It outlines your entire farm/property, you need to show what waterways are there, where the manure is deposited...HOW it's deposited (so really, even if you have a garden, you need to have this plan in place).

You have no experience living off the land. I am a man, a man who can fish, hunt, garden, sew, cook, clean, build, and a host of other things! I am a jack of all trades master of none. Thats my experience, you sure play it like that now but I call bullshit. You were so slyly negative trying to make this man question and doubt himself, if it walks like a troll,talks like a troll, its a troll! There is a better way to point out potential problems rather than smash his dreams.

You have no experience living off the land. I am a man, a man who can fish, hunt, garden, sew, cook, clean, build, and a host of other things! I am a jack of all trades master of none. Thats my experience, you sure play it like that now but I call bullshit. You were so slyly negative trying to make this man question and doubt himself, if it walks like a troll,talks like a troll, its a troll! There is a better way to point out potential problems rather than smash his dreams.

Quoting: BCaudill77

What are you talking about? Who said I had experience living off the land? I said I had a garden, and I said that it had a learning curve that took a few years to learn THAT, and can only imagine what the learning curve would be for FULL self-sufficiency. If he wants to do it, I could care less, but he did post this on a discussion forum and it's being discussed.

Yeah your just here to make him question if he can do it or not, not to kill his resolve by pointing out the hardships huh?

Quoting: BCaudill77

So you're saying he should only have people tell him the good things and he should be unaware of any obstacles? That's pretty cruel. For example, in Pennsylvania, if you own even one chicken you need to have a manure management plan and paperwork on hand in case someone comes knocking. It outlines your entire farm/property, you need to show what waterways are there, where the manure is deposited...HOW it's deposited (so really, even if you have a garden, you need to have this plan in place).

Quoting: Laura Bow

I dont doubt your knowledge, just saying he doesnt need to listen to armchair trolls like you! Thats why I gave him contact info with someone who has tried and failed someone who he can learn a lot from and hopefully be successful. Quit pointing out potential problems and be helpful or just leave the conversation.

Yeah your just here to make him question if he can do it or not, not to kill his resolve by pointing out the hardships huh?

Quoting: BCaudill77

So you're saying he should only have people tell him the good things and he should be unaware of any obstacles? That's pretty cruel. For example, in Pennsylvania, if you own even one chicken you need to have a manure management plan and paperwork on hand in case someone comes knocking. It outlines your entire farm/property, you need to show what waterways are there, where the manure is deposited...HOW it's deposited (so really, even if you have a garden, you need to have this plan in place).

Quoting: Laura Bow

I dont doubt your knowledge, just saying he doesnt need to listen to armchair trolls like you! Thats why I gave him contact info with someone who has tried and failed someone who he can learn a lot from and hopefully be successful. Quit pointing out potential problems and be helpful or just leave the conversation.

Quoting: BCaudill77

Again, so how is it helpful not to highlight pitfalls? Did I say "OMG, that's the suckiest idea ever?!?!" Nope! I expressed my thoughts, even asked if he had family he could work with, and to at least post his strengths and weaknesses so that he could find someone that would at the very least compliment him in areas he was not strong. Not only me but others DID point out that the idea of only ONE person holding the land did NOT seem smart.

You have no experience living off the land. I am a man, a man who can fish, hunt, garden, sew, cook, clean, build, and a host of other things! I am a jack of all trades master of none. Thats my experience, you sure play it like that now but I call bullshit. You were so slyly negative trying to make this man question and doubt himself, if it walks like a troll,talks like a troll, its a troll! There is a better way to point out potential problems rather than smash his dreams.

Quoting: BCaudill77

What are you talking about? Who said I had experience living off the land? I said I had a garden, and I said that it had a learning curve that took a few years to learn THAT, and can only imagine what the learning curve would be for FULL self-sufficiency. If he wants to do it, I could care less, but he did post this on a discussion forum and it's being discussed.

Quoting: Laura Bow

I have gardened since I was three years old, you just plop seeds in the ground and let nature do the rest, amazing what millions of years of evo can do to make plants grow. Its not hard or difficult just water and fertilize. Quit trying to change the subject, you are negative and as such need to stop trying to point out all kinds of crap to keep this man from his dream or idea.

Yeah your just here to make him question if he can do it or not, not to kill his resolve by pointing out the hardships huh?

Quoting: BCaudill77

So you're saying he should only have people tell him the good things and he should be unaware of any obstacles? That's pretty cruel. For example, in Pennsylvania, if you own even one chicken you need to have a manure management plan and paperwork on hand in case someone comes knocking. It outlines your entire farm/property, you need to show what waterways are there, where the manure is deposited...HOW it's deposited (so really, even if you have a garden, you need to have this plan in place).

Quoting: Laura Bow

I dont doubt your knowledge, just saying he doesnt need to listen to armchair trolls like you! Thats why I gave him contact info with someone who has tried and failed someone who he can learn a lot from and hopefully be successful. Quit pointing out potential problems and be helpful or just leave the conversation.

Quoting: BCaudill77

Again, so how is it helpful not to highlight pitfalls? Did I say "OMG, that's the suckiest idea ever?!?!" Nope! I expressed my thoughts, even asked if he had family he could work with, and to at least post his strengths and weaknesses so that he could find someone that would at the very least compliment him in areas he was not strong. Not only me but others DID point out that the idea of only ONE person holding the land did NOT seem smart.

Quoting: Laura Bow

Yeah, your negative thoughts over and over again, no one wants to here negative crap! You might as well said it and you just did!! Shows what you really think! As im sure he seems quite knowledgeable on the subject and should know of land trusts!

You have no experience living off the land. I am a man, a man who can fish, hunt, garden, sew, cook, clean, build, and a host of other things! I am a jack of all trades master of none. Thats my experience, you sure play it like that now but I call bullshit. You were so slyly negative trying to make this man question and doubt himself, if it walks like a troll,talks like a troll, its a troll! There is a better way to point out potential problems rather than smash his dreams.

Quoting: BCaudill77

What are you talking about? Who said I had experience living off the land? I said I had a garden, and I said that it had a learning curve that took a few years to learn THAT, and can only imagine what the learning curve would be for FULL self-sufficiency. If he wants to do it, I could care less, but he did post this on a discussion forum and it's being discussed.

Quoting: Laura Bow

I have gardened since I was three years old, you just plop seeds in the ground and let nature do the rest, amazing what millions of years of evo can do to make plants grow. Its not hard or difficult just water and fertilize. Quit trying to change the subject, you are negative and as such need to stop trying to point out all kinds of crap to keep this man from his dream or idea.

Quoting: BCaudill77

It sounds like you're mad that this topic is being...discussed. Last time I checked, GLP wasn't just group hugs. If he wants to try to set up his own colony, whatever...personally, I wouldn't do that with someone not family. You don't like it? Oh well.

OP, you on here still? Sorry for that, I really hate negative people, specially negative people with there Green karma bar full???? Great ideal, I live in eastern ky and there is some very cheap property in elliot county ky. Dont know about land restrictions though, hope this helps.

So you're saying he should only have people tell him the good things and he should be unaware of any obstacles? That's pretty cruel. For example, in Pennsylvania, if you own even one chicken you need to have a manure management plan and paperwork on hand in case someone comes knocking. It outlines your entire farm/property, you need to show what waterways are there, where the manure is deposited...HOW it's deposited (so really, even if you have a garden, you need to have this plan in place).

Quoting: Laura Bow

I dont doubt your knowledge, just saying he doesnt need to listen to armchair trolls like you! Thats why I gave him contact info with someone who has tried and failed someone who he can learn a lot from and hopefully be successful. Quit pointing out potential problems and be helpful or just leave the conversation.

Quoting: BCaudill77

Again, so how is it helpful not to highlight pitfalls? Did I say "OMG, that's the suckiest idea ever?!?!" Nope! I expressed my thoughts, even asked if he had family he could work with, and to at least post his strengths and weaknesses so that he could find someone that would at the very least compliment him in areas he was not strong. Not only me but others DID point out that the idea of only ONE person holding the land did NOT seem smart.

Quoting: Laura Bow

Yeah, your negative thoughts over and over again, no one wants to here negative crap! You might as well said it and you just did!! Shows what you really think! As im sure he seems quite knowledgeable on the subject and should know of land trusts!

You have no experience living off the land. I am a man, a man who can fish, hunt, garden, sew, cook, clean, build, and a host of other things! I am a jack of all trades master of none. Thats my experience, you sure play it like that now but I call bullshit. You were so slyly negative trying to make this man question and doubt himself, if it walks like a troll,talks like a troll, its a troll! There is a better way to point out potential problems rather than smash his dreams.

Quoting: BCaudill77

What are you talking about? Who said I had experience living off the land? I said I had a garden, and I said that it had a learning curve that took a few years to learn THAT, and can only imagine what the learning curve would be for FULL self-sufficiency. If he wants to do it, I could care less, but he did post this on a discussion forum and it's being discussed.

Quoting: Laura Bow

I have gardened since I was three years old, you just plop seeds in the ground and let nature do the rest, amazing what millions of years of evo can do to make plants grow. Its not hard or difficult just water and fertilize. Quit trying to change the subject, you are negative and as such need to stop trying to point out all kinds of crap to keep this man from his dream or idea.

Quoting: BCaudill77

It sounds like you're mad that this topic is being...discussed. Last time I checked, GLP wasn't just group hugs. If he wants to try to set up his own colony, whatever...personally, I wouldn't do that with someone not family. You don't like it? Oh well.

Quoting: Laura Bow

Actually Im grateful this is being discussed, I have seen other threads be deleted over this very same topic. If its "whatever" then why the negativity dear?? You have an agenda, so drop it.

All kinds of issues arose. One being these people weren't usually blood related - sort of pseudo family make-believe. Then the money and labor issues took care of the rest. The wanna-be back-to-the land(ers) aka 'hippies' or 'new agers' ended up going back to the grid and the world of 'real' jobs. Plus their landlords (lords of the land) wanted their property back in their original state.

Interesting experiment though. The feeling of belonging was cool - though, in the real world, people initially form communities because of real necessity, such as war or financial depressions. Farming communities that go back hundreds of years are becoming a thing of the past - but they were awesome in their heyday.

Prepping is in everyone's best interest. Look at the rich folk in New York and New Jersey being hammered right now. Must suck not to be able to shop at Macy's these days instead of waiting in line for gas and being cold as hell to boot.

Yet another warning the rest of us. Be prepared for anything, including relocation. Having a RV of some sort is a really good idea for getting out of a disaster zone and is something you can fill to the ceiling with food and gas.

Listen Laura, every word spoken and typed is a doorway to someone heart and mind, you just typed it out pretty clear what you really think! I quit with you and will no longer engage you, OP I hope you do this as well. If I cant further along your discussion I will remain quite!

What are you talking about? Who said I had experience living off the land? I said I had a garden, and I said that it had a learning curve that took a few years to learn THAT, and can only imagine what the learning curve would be for FULL self-sufficiency. If he wants to do it, I could care less, but he did post this on a discussion forum and it's being discussed.

Quoting: Laura Bow

I have gardened since I was three years old, you just plop seeds in the ground and let nature do the rest, amazing what millions of years of evo can do to make plants grow. Its not hard or difficult just water and fertilize. Quit trying to change the subject, you are negative and as such need to stop trying to point out all kinds of crap to keep this man from his dream or idea.

Quoting: BCaudill77

It sounds like you're mad that this topic is being...discussed. Last time I checked, GLP wasn't just group hugs. If he wants to try to set up his own colony, whatever...personally, I wouldn't do that with someone not family. You don't like it? Oh well.

Quoting: Laura Bow

Actually Im grateful this is being discussed, I have seen other threads be deleted over this very same topic. If its "whatever" then why the negativity dear?? You have an agenda, so drop it.

Quoting: BCaudill77

I think you're not understanding what negativity is, are you? So because I'm trying to warn him about a few things I have noticed that he may run into (if you check back posts, I actually looked into this because my husband wanted to do something similar but I did not want to do so with people who were not family), this is negativity? Good Lord!