SlashGear reports that Stephen Elop teased that there’ll be some “Exciting things with Verizon” indicating that it will be a high end flagship device, “There might be another similar hero exercise with a different operator”. It could mean a variant of the 920 for Verizon or something completely different.

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So after two years of work (?) there is the first head on encounter with Google and it turned into total defeat for Elop. But hey, they only just begun!

Location, location, location.

jiipee

Exactly my thoughts.

Janne

You’ve got to be kidding. Using Nokia Maps on iOS as the measurement of their location success vs. Google?

Sometimes, you guys…

Pökö

Exactly my thoughts.

mirco

But somehow he made a point. I think many people associate Google Maps/Earth with their satellite maps and in this respect Nokia isn’t even in the same game. Heck, even bing has much better satellite maps. I’m not sure if Nokia can convince many people to use Here as their primary service if it lags there. Other aspects of mapping solutions had to be significantly better then… but are they?

Janne

That is a very American perspective, though. The perception of Nokia’s maps in many other places is quite different.

That said, I have absolutely no issue in people making reasonable points about Nokia’s location progress or lack there of. Google has very good maps. But the drama queens turning every possible thing into a major issue showing the new Nokia’s utter incompetence or whatever is just ridiculous.

Certainly a HTML5 wrapper app on the iOS from Nokia is nothing to write home about and Google Maps is the better experience on iOS. Was it smart to wrap a HTML5 application to get something out there? I don’t know. I probably wouldn’t have bothered, but they seem to want scale for their maps to keep improving them.

I just never thought Nokia’s iOS presence was quite as significant as nn and Jiipee make it sound like. 🙂 Especially in a thread titled Verizon Lumia flagship… Well, for some people the glass is always half empty.

nn got one thing right: Location, location, location…

nn

Well, wasn’t there the idea that we will throw the world over board and focus on US, because this is The Primary Market and only after succeeding there it’s possible to succeed in rest of the world?

Presence on iOS is not significant? That’s great, because if they can’t make a dent on iPhone then Android is totally dead end for them, which essentially means they are locked out of smartphones and tablets. You know, the devices that will be primary (and for most the only one) digital interface to the world.

But I see, the grand vision of “where” company is actually licensing data to car makers. At least until they will be overrun by competition even here for lack of resources, talented people, and feedback data from users (Ahtissari begging people to use FirefoxOS so they can get hand on realtime positioning data comes to mind).

Actually, I got that one piece wrong. I wanted to write “locations, locations, locations.”

Viipottaja

No, that was not the idea (throwing the world over board) as you can probably tell e.g. with their focus on China (China Mobile) and India (Asha line).

Tom

Even the licensing data to car makers will come to end when the integration between smart phone and car infotainment improves to a point. Most car companies use QNX and more likely some will go toward Andoid in future. If Google cuts a deal with RIM for maps, Nokia is out of that market as well.

Janne

nn: You are right Nokia could not win against Google on Android proper… Hence you understand why they went Windows Phone. 😉

nn

Ah, the great story about the Elop’s Choice – it was either Android or WP, end of options. And because MS threatened to stop using Nokia maps in bing and WP (which would be obviously total catastrophe for Nokia) unless Elop signs WP exclusivity, the choice was actually no-brainer.

BTW, interesting that in this interview, when asked why WP, he offers the differentiation story, no single word about maps. On the other hand, the differentiation story makes about the same sense as the maps one, so I guess it doesn’t matter anyway.

mirco

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not talking about USA… I’m talking about one of the bigger cities in Germany. And of course I can only talk about what I see in my enviroment (I should have stated that more explicitly but it should be always clear) and in my enviroment people open Google Maps not just to get a direction/POI on the map but mostly to really see how it looks like there. Navigation is something different and since Nokia Maps and Drive are so disentangled as they are we should seperate them as well.
I think it is important to be realistic. Nokia Maps (and Drive) are clearly pointing in the right direction and are very useful. One should not over criticise it but one can address the problems:
– Nokia Maps and Drive are disentangled (at least for WP7) which is hard to understand. Therefore Nokia Maps on Symbian gives a better experience (yet the only thing I really miss after changing to WP7.5)
– The satellite images are not on par with Google and it is hard to understand why there is no exchange with MS bing.
– The Here apps need to get better. (Certainly I understand that they had to bring it to the app store right now…)

Tom

@Janne,

You can say anything about how great Nokia maps are, and they may be, they simply don’t have mind share any more. Google maps has a higher mind share, you like to accept or not. Nokia matters in standalone GPS, but that market, the device makers matter more.

migo

What I have a problem with is between Nokia and Microsoft, they have a lot of data to provide a phenomenal mapping service, yet you’re just getting one or the other. Nokia has data points for certain regions that Microsoft lacks, and vice-versa. That shouldn’t be the case. Both companies are still acting like they’re on top of the world, instead of dropping all other considerations to provide the best product possible, that users will want to buy, instead of trying to hedge their bets or build in future revenue models.

Toni

I think that Nokia saw the opportunity to push their service when there was a relative lacuna of competing products after the Maps fiasco of Apple’s. Would they have not released anything the same pundits who now criticise the offering would be here pondering why they did nothing.

They have already said that an application currently in use at Apple is simply a port of the thing they use on web which hardly justifies it to be called an app in any fashion. And, moreover, the crucial thing with maps is the amount of data which there have been few critics, not the UX for which there has been a plenty of (justified) negative feedback.

nn

I think nobody expected miracles, but this looks like Nokia, as they say, isn’t even playing the same sport. Remember, the target is to be the where company and to rule map world, releasing functional things and delivering results in face of your biggest competitor is precondition to that, so pundits are completely right to bash Elop.

Janne

Google Maps is basically non-existent in car integrations (where Nokia has 4/5, only Google Earth has had some success), yet I’m not making that sound like Google is not playing in the same sport.

Google Maps has been on iOS since the launch of that platform, no doubt Google was well positioned to do something about that whhen Apple made their move. It is just one piece of the game. There are others…

Stick to good points (like Nokia’s fledgeling presence on other mobile platforms, without making it sound like that is the full story on their location) and cut the drama, you’ll make more sense that way.

shallow ocean shoal

Has anyone here ever seen Google Maps’ airplane integration for in flight maps. It is HORRENDOUSLY BAD! I was shocked how bad it was the first time I saw it. I was surprised they even left their name on it.

Tom

@Janne

How big is Nokia location services(revenue/profit)? What is the likely growth and how big can it possibly be?

Right now car makers are using Nokia maps or 4/5 of them. Basically it’s using standalone maps till. Once Google maps mind share goes to a point people want google map in car, car makers will give them that. It hasn’t happened yet, I think it may happen soon.

Sefriol

I doubt that. Buying a car has more important aspects than what maps they are using. As long they work as they should, no one gives a damn.
Even I do not know which maps my car is using. But they do work and that’s enough for me.

Peter L

Navteq True. Look it up.

Then go die in a chemical fire.

Viipottaja

Come now Peter, it’s almost Christmas time and you say such mean things! 😀

Keith too

What about the encounter of the Lumia 920 against all comers. Nokia/Elop are up on that far more important battle.

dss

Wait, you actually thought that Nokia has a chance against Google on iOS ? that is just silly.. gmaps has been the default maps service on the iphone for years, and it has better indexing here in the US overall, so.. no.. Nokia has no chance against google when it comes to location services on Apple products. Their only chance is WP, and they are lucky.. since google won’t bother with a google maps app for WP for now.

nn

No, I didn’t. But then I also think the “where” company hype is nonsense.

It’s mystery to me how some people can reconcile this development with grand visions of Nokia’s map bright future, let alone Nokia’s map bright future independent from WP.

Janne

Many things on life seem a mystery to you.

Tom

one thing I learnt with Nokia, is that you must always lower your expectations, or else face bitter disappointment. Many will hope for a thinner and lighter 920, or a 920 with the camera of the 808. But none those will actually happen…

arts

please, share with us why those things wont happen.

Mark

That’s funny, Tom. I have exactly the same thoughts about your comments.

Keith too

Yes but at least with the 920 we get to lower them less than with any other choice currently.

Janne

Before the thread is completely derailed by the hate squad, time for some guessing as to what the Verizon flaship might be? Some past leaks (who were saying at the time Verizon won’t get the 920), were saying Verizon would get the next PureView device in the winter/spring… Might that be a Phase 3 device (Massive MPix aka MMPix + OIS)? Or is that too niche for Verizon?

Peter L

There’s already a huge thread in WPCentral forums that discuss about a Verizon variant of Lumia 920, called Lumia 922. There is even a guy there that has heard some inside info about flagship Nokia coming to Verizon later in the Spring 2013.

Rumored specs of that one: 920 except thinner + S4 Pro

Bloob

Propably “just” a quad core version of the 920.

Janne

Peter L, Bloob: Yes, those indeed sound more likely than a Phase 3 PureView device (MMpix + OIS). I do think they will make one, they’ve hinted at it enough, but I have a little harder time seeing it as a flagship of an American operator. They size would be the issue…

dss

The 920 is already big and heavy… its paving the way for the rest of the pureview arsenal.

jk

I want to tell those **** open source people, Linux people, or fire elop people, your time is over, go somewhere and cry and never come back.

Just Visiting

I just hope that Verizon doesn’t bastardize the device with their own aesthetic ‘design’ tweeks; I don’t think that the Lumia 822 is unattractive, however, I think that it is the least ‘Lumia’ like with regards to aesthetics. And if this device is going to be more than $99, on contract, it should look delicious 🙂

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

JGrove303

So, a Lumia 920 with an S4 Pro and an Adreno 320 on the SoC? Display is excellent, so I can see that staying the same. How about that Hydrophobic coating the Lumias and PureView devices were going to get?