Contributed by an Anonymous Source. Posted by john on Tuesday, January 3, 2012 at 3:30 PM (EST)

Cult Punk is reporting that upscale UK fashion house Hardware has appropriated Crass's iconic logo for their corporate logo. The brand has taken the band's self-designed logo and altered it slightly-- adding a chain border and a gold emboss-- and is using it on all of their new products.

Both the band and their label, Southern Records, are aware of what's happened, but it remains to be seen if they will take action.

Meh, considering their ideology, it's not going to happen. Unless it comes from Steve Ignorant, of course. Fucker. I have huge respect for Gee, Penny and Eve for not tearing him a new asshole over his crass (pun actually not intended) exploitation of their legacy. I would have gone totally berzerk about the t-shirts alone, much less the touring.

I personally thought the Steve Ignorant thing was really lame and wouldn't have been caught dead at one of those shows, but you come off as completely unbearable. So much worse shit going on than yet another middle aged man trying to relive his past. Not to mention, if they were the sort of people who would go to that show just to sing along to songs, what good did you really do by "bullying" them? You seem obsessed with manipulation.

Sorry if I'm not so lazy and credulous I've stopped caring about art and its integrity. Go to a karaoke bar if you just want to "sing along" to something. There's "so much worse shit" going on precisely because people don't give a fuck about anything. It's not like I was one of those people protesting in front of the shows, but when one of my friends mentioned it, I gave my opinion, which happened to be strong. You seem to be obsessed with being a douche.

Um, this read like you missed the many parts where I pointed out that I personally wouldn't have gone to that show. I don't think you being threatened by innocuous shit like what kind of shows kids go to is truly taking a stand, though. I think it's just one of the many signals that you are middle class brat with the time to worry about things that don't matter. I know you THINK it matters, and I'll give you a little credit for that, but no more than I'd give anyone for daring to be truly delusional. Feel free the contort that into me being a sellout. I think maybe I find you so annoying because you remind me of myself from when I was a little younger.

Speaking of obsessions -- I've seen you trot out this ad-hominem "age" thing on at least a half-dozen people here. You are over-compensating for something, I suppose.

I am almost certainly older than you, and I am deeply involved in this sort of stuff (meaning libertarian socialist/info-anarchist ideals) to the point that I've carved out a decent "career" from it. What you see of me on this site is my blowing off intellectually frivolous steam during downtime and, as JohnGentile mentioned doing below, gently trolling morons into dialogue. Your younger self was an ignorant bandwagon-jumper; I'm the real deal. Enjoy the rest of your dull, acquiescent life.

Wait, you mean you aren't in high school? I'm not kidding, I seriously was under the impression you were 16 or 17. You seem to "blow off steam" on this site a lot. Sounds like the acting... er, "activist" career is getting to you. To believe what you supposedly believe in and still have such an aggressive, controlling temperament must be quite a conundrum. Or maybe I just sold the fuck out, who knows. Sounds lonely at the top.

The stick tumbled to the floor when I realised how long you've spent telling us all how bad it is that a fashion brand and Steve Ignorant have used this logo, because it's doing wrong by people who deny ownership of the logo in the first place. If it's free for people to use, surely it's free for brands, Steve, and anyone else, to use, much like Robin Hood, or the Kraken?

Of course they're free to use any symbolism or media however they wish; I strongly believe they have an inalienable right to do so. Just as I have the right to oppose its misappropriation -- just not through "the system," as some here are suggesting Crass should do to this fashion house.

While Crass may not have defended the mark int he past, it's not quite that simple. A work is eligible for copyright protection immediately upon fixation. (That is, as soon as it is drawn on paper, in this issue). One does not need to register a copyright to protect the work.

Second, although copyright law applies here, I would go for trademark infringement, as damages would be much higher, and it is generally easier to enforce in this type of scenario. As with copyright, TM need not be registered to be enforced.

Last, simply because a party has not enforced its rights int he past does not necessarily they can not enforce it, even arbitrarily, later on.

"The system" isn't the best or only means through which to oppose wrongdoing -- especially when you've built your entire adult life around opposing government. Considering their opposition to private property and support for appropriation, it would run counter to everything they stood for to make some sort of copyright claim on this. Much better to shame and defame the company, which might actually hit them much harder financially. I know you work in intellectual property, but everyone in Crass but Steve thinks IP shouldn't exist in the first place...

Interesting. So, then, how do you think Rimbauld should respond in this situation to stop organizations and company from co-opting the image? Do you think Rimbauld doesn't care if the image is destroyed through random companies using it?

Also, this is more of a tm issue than a copyright, but your initial argument works both ways.

By doing what Penny, Gee and Eve always do: Write. Create. Perform. Mobilize protest. Encourage non-violent vigilantism. Taking this to the courts would de-legitimize their message a hundred times worse than some stupid clothing company ever could. It would be supremely hypocritical.

I think principle is more important than perceived immediate practicality in this circumstance, and I know they agree, considering you see Crass merch everywhere but literally NONE of it is "official." Not one penny from all those shirts and patches and stickers has ever made it back to Crass or even Southern. This is nothing new. They really do put their money (or lack thereof) where their mouths are. The ideas are paramount, and fuck all else. It's one of the reasons I love this band.

Crass acting against their stated beliefs would do more damage to that logo than it being appropriated without permission. Hurting their business and encouraging hacktivism might not make a big dent to a fashion brand, but the relevant members of the band would still own it by virtue of standing by its true meaning. Taking it to court would essentially be retroactive commodification and the height of hypocrisy. It would do worse than just detract from the meaning of their logo -- it would annihilate it.

So to you, the symbol is important because it is meaningful to a few people, even though it might be appropriated by the masses for an entirely different reason, and that new reason might be applied to the few who wear it under the crass definition?

I guess you and I approach the "objective" from a different platform. it seems to me that your objective, as penny rimbauld, would be to keep the symbol meaning to just a few and disregaurd the meaning attached to it by the masses, whereas I, as penny rimbaud, would be worried about the original meaning being washed away by the new meaning attached to it.

There is no "objective," there is merely the fact that the relevant members of Crass do not believe in private property, particularly intellectual property. They won't take legal action to preserve ownership of something they do not believe themselves to be owners of. The consequences ultimately have nothing to do with it. In their mind, nobody owns that symbol. If it's used for evil, that sucks, but what're you gonna do. It's a moot point, a non-starter, irrelevant.

who do you guys think you are, having a reasonable civil debate on this site, reasonable civil people?

honestly, I think that they should at the very least issue some sort of statement condemning the use of the crass symbol, maybe even send something directly to the company calling them on their shit. but I gotta side with misanthropee that I don't think they (minus maybe steve) will, for ideological reasons. and I totally respect that.

Civil debate: PUNKNEWS 2012, baby! Honestly, I do have a general agenda w/ punknews and punk in general. I think that the philosophies of punk would be better advanced if "punks" were able to meet and disprove "normal society" on "normal society" terms.

I also feel that often, "punk" debates are poorly conveyed, poorly researched, and espoused more from broad line concepts then actual contemplation of the issue at hand.

Whatwhat?! Hackers is great if you can get past the cheese. I'd go as far to say that I would love to see a Hackers re-vamp. You know, now with the whole Anonymous thing, portable devices and a population that knows much more about computers and programming than they did in the 90s.

Yeah, it looks like they've changed it. The first 3-4 pages have the new version of the logo.

I was interested to find out from the same site that Forever 21 ripped off the Flipper logo. From just what I personally know, that means they've now ripped of Flipper, Minor Threat, and the seminal UK zine Sniffiin' Glue. I went there yesterday and they had a repurposed UK tabloid page about punk. The names were changed but there were still pics of the Clash and Sex Pistols on it. I guess there's a lot of money in ripping off 30+ year old punk bands and imagery?

Ewww...grody. What would be the point of that? To act as an impromptu enema with the intent of being expelled upon your body? Then why use your own urine? If anything, wouldn't it be more erotic to use hers? Then you create a whole new act of foreplay when either one of you inserts the urine-filled turkey baster into her rectum, and by doing that, you can do it from an angle where you can still have eye contact with each other.

Well, it seems kind of conceited. That's like asking why have sex when you can masturbate? I mean, you can urinate on yourself at any time of the day, especially in the shower, so why do the same when you're being intimate with a woman? She has her own bodily fluids, use them to your advantage. I'd naturally assume that the waste products of a sexual partner would be more desirable than the ones you yourself produce on a daily basis.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I've never had the desire to have sex, let alone have a woman relieve herself on my face...

I'll admit, aside from 'Hardware', I really only know him for directing the short film/long-form music video for Marillion's 'Brave'...the terrible, terrible short film that both he and the band disowned.

"I am almost certainly older than you, and I am deeply involved in this sort of stuff (meaning libertarian socialist/info-anarchist ideals). . ."--Great, you learned to string big words together to make you sound so important. What you're really saying is, "I'm a very forgettable and uninteresting person. I need something "shocking" that might make another person interact with me. Too bad I'm such a dick that no one bothers to continue talking to me."

" . . .to the point that I've carved out a decent "career" from it."--What "career" could you possibly have from this? Just because you probably make some shitty, pseudo-rebellious theme artwork to buy PBR at shows and then complain about the price doesn't mean you have a career. It just makes you pretentious. (Last I checked, the revolution didn't come. You suck at your career.)

"I bullied a good number of people out of attending."--What, I thought you believe in personal freedom and liberty first and foremost. Apparently, that only applies to you. Everyone else must bow to you and your beliefs. I sure hope you're not one of those people who's always calling others a "facist." You don't want to be a hypocrite also. Remember, force>information/education.

"I'm the real deal."--anyone who would refer to themselves as "the real deal" surely is not. You're just mad that you don't get "recognized" for being more "punk" than Steve Ignorant. Maybe you should add a couple more political ideals to yourself.

I don't usually post, but fuck, you're such a pretentious douche. Somehow, though, I feel you'll think of this as some sort of victory.

Ah the joyfull follies of my youth
I think its a shame that some fashion house is using the crass logo just like Levis tried to use Holiday in Cambodia to sell some skinny jeans.
However I went to the gig in Manchester & it was fucking great. Not as good as the old days but what is these days. I was speeding out of my head & was bloody sore for at least a week afterwards. My only regret was missing do they owe us a living at the start.
So what if the rest of Crass didnt turn up I dont seem to remember them turning up too many times during the Miners strike, when the chips were down, either.
Seems like they have got their heads firmly stuck up their arses, just like some, or at least one of the posters here, which also reminds me of the old days.
"Middle class, working class, it's all a load of shit" looks like they got that one wrong eh.
Still like I said I enjoyed most of it at the time & thanks Steve for a good night to remember