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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

When it came to overt criminal allegations, however, those discussions have in the past needed to stem from a report by a reputable news source or action by law enforcement or the legal system.

We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.

So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. Users have always been legally responsible for their posts, and nothing has changed there, but we want to loosen the reins a bit and further allow the free flow of discussion and information relevant to the horse community.

We are not providing a free-for-all of anonymous rumor-mongering. As enduring advocates for the welfare of the horse, we want to provide a forum for those willing to sign their name and shine a light on issues of concern to them in the industry.

The full revised rules are posted at the top of each forum for reference.

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Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums’ policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

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Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

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When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

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The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Comment

What do you folks thinks grooms quarters typically are??? I’ve know them to be shipping containers (that was an Olympics I believe), trailers....hell stalls have been converted. In other words....they are often not super nice. Yes. I was a groom. We have a house rented nearby. Our groom was offered to stay there. So far she hasn’t yet. My understanding it’s it isn’t terrible. Having access to food is bigger but again....food is also not typical great. So I don’t get the up roar. No one who was ever a groom was expecting luxury accommodations. Its not a glamorous life and that’s not why people do that job.

** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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Comment

Very recent FEI groom, as I said elsewhere we don't sleep in stalls. It isn't even allowed. At pan ams and Kentucky weg they rented rvs, at 2011 panams everyone was in a hotel with ten minutes walking distance. Generally at FEI shows in Europe everyone is in the lorries. I'm happy to show pics, most are pretty nice, some absolutely are luxurious. If you put your groom in a tent or a shed you 100% wouldn't have a groom.

this isn't on the riders though, it's on the organizers at tryon. It's embarrassing.

Let me apologize in advance.

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Well you definition of luxury and mine are very different. I stayed in the converted stalls. And yes it was a while ago but they we fine. Clean with a decent bed...better than some motels. The most recent Olympics, they were basically dorm rooms but many grooms were unhappy because you were not right there near the horses. We always preferred to stay on grounds. I’ve been told by grooms ACTUALLY there Tryon the the accommodations are just fine.

** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

Comment

As you said, different people have different definitions of what's acceptable. Glad you liked sleeping in a stall, but nope, you can't do that at this level.

As I said before, this reflects poorly on the US, and poorly on the organizers who thought this was cool.

These are absolutely substandard relative to the generally available grooms accomodations, and it's my understanding that many national federations have accepted the cash and have put their grooms up in hotels wherever they can, creating a logistical problem both for the NFs and for the local Tryon area. The other issue is that some got rented RVs (way nicer) some got hotel rooms (way nicer) and some got this army barracks tent shared with 40 other people. And now they're adding garden sheds for some.

Originally posted by PeanutButterPony

you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

Comment

Whether you're ok with it or not, its not acceptable for grooms to be put in crappy accommodations.

I remember my friend who was grooming at Burghley, she was in a sea can, and it had cockroaches.

To think this is ok, is disgusting. I don't care if you take the job knowing it. Have some respect for grooms. Why should they bust their butts all day and night, not get much sleep or much to eat AND have a crappy sleep? Luckily they're just so exhausted they don't complain because they just want bed.

I've groomed at enough FEI events that I would not be ok with crap housing. Maybe I'm snooty, but when you fork out all this money for everything else, your groom deserves a decent room with warm water and a nice bed.

Maybe it's because grooms just don't complain that they assume they should get the shitty end of the stick for housing? Yet everyone RAVES about how amazing grooms are, they're the reason our sport can exist, they're the reason horses are in top form and at their best, so they say. But hey, you don't deserve the best accommodations... you're just a groom. So are grooms the be all end all, or is it all just a facade and smoke and mirrors to make them feel better. Why not show it with appreciating them by giving them good accommodations.

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Comment

Don't shoot me for asking, but why is it the facilities responsibility to house the grooms? it would seem to me to be a riders responsibility since groom works for them. If rider wants groom on the property then wouldn't they rent groom an RV or give them a tent? Facility should allow grooms to stay on property, or maybe even have rooms to rent if the rider should choose to do so for their grooms.

Comment

Facility should allow grooms to stay on property, or maybe even have rooms to rent if the rider should choose to do so for their grooms.

Well, the problem is they were supposedly building hotels on site that were to be the grooms accommodations, but they didn't get them done. So, I'm assuming the tents were a last minute scramble to provide the promised housing for grooms on site. The part of the statement I really didn't understand was underestimating the demand - how would you not have a basic idea of how many grooms to expect??

I seem to recall the pictures of the Rio grooms' housing weren't stellar, but at least provided a lot more privacy than this many bunk beds in a tent! Also, you have to wonder how the tents will hold up to heavy rains if the remnants of the hurricane do move that far inland.

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Comment

Don't shoot me for asking, but why is it the facilities responsibility to house the grooms? it would seem to me to be a riders responsibility since groom works for them. If rider wants groom on the property then wouldn't they rent groom an RV or give them a tent? Facility should allow grooms to stay on property, or maybe even have rooms to rent if the rider should choose to do so for their grooms.

At a normal horse show in the US, it would be the riders’ responsibility. But at any major international championship (Olympics, WEG, Panams), it’s pretty standard for the organizers to provide onsite accommodation for the grooms, including housing & food. Especially if they had said they would, as they did here. PS the shipping container lodging mentioned upthread were the 2007 Panams in Rio. By the 2016 Rio Olympics, the grooms were much better housed (according to grooms who had been to both).

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Comment

What do you folks thinks grooms quarters typically are??? I’ve know them to be shipping containers (that was an Olympics I believe), trailers....hell stalls have been converted. In other words....they are often not super nice. Yes. I was a groom. We have a house rented nearby. Our groom was offered to stay there. So far she hasn’t yet. My understanding it’s it isn’t terrible. Having access to food is bigger but again....food is also not typical great. So I don’t get the up roar. No one who was ever a groom was expecting luxury accommodations. Its not a glamorous life and that’s not why people do that job.

Well just because thats the way it always has been doesnt mean thats how it SHOULD BE.

FCS Belissimo has how much money? This is the US. They should have secured back up hotel/motel rooms for all grooms pending this was going to happen. He admitted they werent ready and knew they werent ready.

This falls solely on Belissimo and FEI. Would substandard horse accomodations be OK? I think not.

Comment

Anyone else catch that the “pods” aka garden sheds are being built by a company also owned by Bellisimo? So he is making money on this “failure.”

I dont care how things were done in the past - this isn’t a childhood summer camp in the woods where it’s like a sleepover - it is being asked to sleep in a public room under a tent with 40 adult strangers from different countries. To not even provide the visiting delegations from other countries a private place to sleep? That makes us bad hosts, absolutely.

Originally posted by PeanutButterPony

you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

Comment

Anyone else catch that the “pods” aka garden sheds are being built by a company also owned by Bellisimo? So he is making money on this “failure.”

I dont care how things were done in the past - this isn’t a childhood summer camp in the woods where it’s like a sleepover - it is being asked to sleep in a public room under a tent with 40 adult strangers from different countries. To not even provide the visiting delegations from other countries a private place to sleep? That makes us bad hosts, absolutely.

do you feel like we are right back to trying to explain how to not be awful people to people who are just bad at being decent human beings?