safariguy5 wrote:To perhaps steer this discussion a bit more into the realm of mafia and less on grammar, I'm a bit curious as to why Vio didn't look up her role?

I never look anything up. I don't care. This is actually one reason why I tend to avoid theme based games. I totally suck at them, especially when I can't follow the flavor/history/details. I did want to participate in this one because I like edoc as a mod, and I wanted to participate in the entire series. But normally, I join the "typical" games, where outside reasoning doesn't come into play. Because honestly, I don't really feel that it should. Just not my style.

safariguy5 wrote:And if you yourself do not take the time to check the flavor of your role, then when someone else cites outside sources, surely it wouldn't hurt to at least affirm or deny the information provided by someone else.

The thing is that any information does not change my alignment. According to my role pm, I am either town or mafia or third faction, or whatever. No outside source is going to change the role that I was given.

Whatever Rodion found out wiki did not change the fact that I was a saint and alive. Like I said, outside sources can throw you off if the games isn't exactly going by those outsides sources.

In the games I have modded in the past, my character roles have sometimes been a direct contradiction of "outside sources." I think Clue Mafia was a great example of this. For example, someone who was a villain in the movie might have been Town in the game. Someone who was good in the book, might have been Mafia in the game. A NRPC (non-role playing character) might have a large role in the game, or a main character might be an NRPC in the game. I like to mix things up.

safariguy5 wrote:Part of this has to do with find out fakeclaims. We know that mafia may have to fakeclaim from time to time, and if roleflavor does not support the claim well, then that may be a hint that the person is faking.

I agree that research can be useful with fakeclaims, and that is the only time that I am remotely interested in looking at outside sources. I think because I was town and because I knew I was town, I wasn't too concerned with fakeclaims. I'm usually only concerned with fakeclaims when I'm mafia.

I just don't tend to use outside information to determine who is scummy or not. I base it on their actions within the game. To be honest, I think that is the best and most fair way. This might be why some people criticize too much meta-gaming.

safariguy5 wrote:I have to say that I didn't initially see too much with Vio's claim, but the defensive nature of her response and apparent complete unwillingness to accept any outside attempts at clarification made me think twice.

If I know my role, then I know it. Period. I don't care what Rodion or Wiki says. Wiki could say, hypothetically, that Saint Catherine was really some twisted demon. However, it doesn't change that my role pm said living saint. If a situation like that occurred, what could I possibly say in defense? I had to defend against something that wiki said when my role pm says something different? How is that even fair?

safariguy5 wrote:If it weren't for the earlier innocent result and the fact that I thought we had better leads, I might have believed she was faking.

That's how mafia goes sometimes. It is not the first time that I've been 100% honest about my claim but have still not been believed. I've been lynched as town before and I've been lynched as mafia before, so I know it happens. All I can do is try my best, but I can't control if I will always be 100% believed. I was honest with the claim, but if it came across as scummy- oh well. I can't say much about that. It appears that if I had lied, then I might have been better believed. However, it is my impression that very few really actually thought I was scum at the end of the game.

safariguy5 wrote:So in conclusion Vio, I think that your initial claim may have been a poor choice of wording

I really don't get what you think I should have said differently. I think my choice of words were straight to the point, as they should have been. "Saint, alive, doctor..." How else could I have claimed?

safariguy5 wrote:but you compounded the issue by the subsequent defense and failure to do a little research into your own role to provide some substance/rationale.

If I believe something to be true, I will defend it to death. I won't give in just because it doesn't "sound right," to someone else. Truth is truth. I need to have a really good reason to do research, as I prefer to go by the information provided within the context of the game. I don't always know what the mod had in mind, so it's all speculation. Also, as I stated above, if wiki or another outside source contradicts what my role pm said, then there is really nothing I can say. I'm just not that creative about coming up with "excuses." I won't even try (unless I'm scum). Perhaps that is my mafia shortcoming, but I am just not creative. Thus, I take a much simpler approach to my games.

Bruceswar: I have big news coming out soonishViolet: oh, what big news?Bruceswar: I am leaving KORT to go to RA

VioIet wrote:If I know my role, then I know it. Period. I don't care what Rodion or Wiki says.

I agree that your zealous adherence to truthfulness about your role would mean that you don't care about wiki. However, if for example someone claimed to be Archangel George W. Bush (or Archangel Barack Obama, if you think I'm trying to bring politics into it which I am not, sake of example), would you let them live? Archangel Daniel Tosh? Archangel Brad Pitt? Of course not. The flavour does not fit the theme. This is because flavour is important in flavoured games, it is there for a reason. You elect to ignore this while the rest of the players (the rest of TOWN) actually thinks it's significant. In my experience it is simply stupid to ignore anything the town has to bring to the table on the matter and stubbornly continue down your own narrow-minded path. If I had claimed to be Baal, archdemon town vigilante, and discarded any accusations "because that's what's in my role pm", how long do you think I would have lived?

VioIet wrote:Wiki could say, hypothetically, that Saint Catherine was really some twisted demon. However, it doesn't change that my role pm said living saint. If a situation like that occurred, what could I possibly say in defense?

Nothing, because you would be absolutely barking mad to actually claim that role. If someone claims to be the known antagonist in a themed game, obviously he is going to get lynched. Roles have names for a reason, that is why theme games usually end up in massclaims to root out the most obvious scum.

VioIet wrote:I had to defend against something that wiki said when my role pm says something different?

...your role pm never contradicted wiki... In the flavour of the game, yes, obviously the character "Catherine of blablabla" is alive. However, the actual Catherine of Blablabla is dead, which was what we were talking about at the timeYou display a very high capability of thinking inside the box.

VioIet wrote:How is that even fair?

When is Mafia ever? Fairness has nothing to do with it.

Let's grab your original post.

It is to my understanding that Saints can be classified as humans in this game. My character is still alive- meaning I'm not the type of Saint who has already died, and people are praying to him/her.

My character is still alive- meaning I'm not the type of Saint who has already died, and people are praying to him/her.

meaning I'm not the type of Saint who has already died, and people are praying to him/her.

I'm not the type of Saint who has already died

wikipedia wrote:[Catherine] died in [Genoa] in 1510.

I am sure you of all people will enjoy the dramatic effect.

VioIet wrote:This is actually one reason why I tend to avoid theme based games. I totally suck at them, especially because I can't be bothered to read wikipedia

If you admit you suck at them, why do you still believe you said nothing out of place or confusing?

Now don't get me wrong, I don't care either. You could have gotten yourself lynched over this and I would have laughed, pleased. But you're hurting your own faction with stuff like this.