I am tired of gays shouting about civil rights just to equalize and force their lifestyle on the masses. Being gay is NOT the same as being black,
Jewish or a woman. The later cannot change their position but gays can, they simply can just CHOOSE not to be. There is nothing "natural" about a
man being with another man and a woman being with another woman. When you really look at it from outside the situation it really looks insane. I
believe it is just a struggle of the flesh that needs to be overcome like anything else.

There have been thousands of documented studies and cases where gay people from birth have successfully gone and stayed straight. You can not stop
being Jewish (ethnicity), a woman (natural gender) or black (Michael Jackson doesn't count because he failed miserably). You can however stop being
gay if you really wanted to in your heart of hearts by simply NOT participating in the lifestyle. Every gay person knows it and the ones that I
personally know and have talked to have admitted it. They simply choose to be that way because they enjoy it and then arrogantly flaunt it and work
diligently sparing no expense to force it down our throats and strong arm us for acceptance with absolutely no shame. They constantly pressure
legislatures to change our constitution and the divine laws of this world that have prevailed for thousands of years. They demand the same rights as
people who have no control over their natural born ethnicity or gender.

Making matters worse, homosexuals have an extremely powerful secret society with their own symbols, language and agenda and have permeated all facets
of government and big business to force their agenda on us from the top down and then penalize those who are against it. They call straight people
advocates of hate when it is obvious now that gays hate straight people and would love nothing more than to turn the entire world into a gay paradise
where they can do as they will. They are constantly trying to convert people to being gay. They are so powerful and widespread that they don't even
need laws in their favor. They have always taken care of their own and that's why gays are typically very successful and even wealthy. Nevertheless,
they will not stop until the world bows down to their lifestyle by using brilliant lawyers to pervert and exploit civil rights and constitutional
loopholes to succeed.

You are simply another of these people who think it's a choice eh? To tell you the truth, it's not, and I can tell you why.

Attraction is a chemical reaction in your body, two or more chemicals are produced, mix together and voila, a feeling is born. I can't control or
choose who to be attracted to base on this scientific fact, it's simply beyond me.

And no our goals are not to ram our beliefs or our lifestyles down your throat, we simply want what everybody wants, the freedom to express ourselves
and to not be ridiculed and demonized for it.

You speak of documented cases of people being "cured" of homosexual behaviour, where is this proof? Proof from religious "straight" camps that
force their doctrine down your throat, or use scare tactics. It's all cover up, none of these people are ever "cured", they are simply lying to
themselves.

And as far as having a secret society of people who have infiltrated the government to get our agenda across, well...that's just silly and you are
very silly for every mentioning such a thing.

I am assuming you are very young, such ignorance would seem outrageous for anybody over the age of 20 or so. I will give you the benefit of the doubt
and say that you really do not understand what is to be discriminated against, probably because you are Caucasian and have never been told you are
less than another.

People ask where is the straight parade and pride day for straight people. The answer is simple, straight folks have never been discriminated against
or put down for their lifestyle.

It's really not a matter of acceptance, or wanting people to be ok with being gay, it's about our rights as human beings to love whomever we choose
withou there being some stupid consequence brought on by intolerance.

We simply want the same rights that you all have, is it truly so much to ask for? To have a fifty fifty chance of staying together like you straight
folks do?

I dont' understand how a straight person could ever be bothered or affected by gays getting married, it just seems like an awful waste of time and
energy to argue something that you dont' understand truly don't want to understand, which would be the reason you are against it.

This kind of rhetoric and division among us, is the reason why TPTB have control right now and can do whatever they want without consequence. It's
because we are far too busy worrying about trivial things and seperating ourselves from eachother, that they carry on.

Good job in spreading their ideals and goals friend, you truly are a piece of art.

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx
See the problem is some opinions I first incountered after posting this thread were so strong that those of like minded stance were then reaffirmed by
the sentiment already in the opposition posts. I say again, I am not gay or bi, I don't specifically believe in gay rights, I believe in equality of
human beings and that does NOT exclude gays. It is just so hard to get people to understand that if it were for instance blacks in question or asians
or midgets or mentally handicaps or STRAIGHTS or Jews that were being denied equal rights and equal benefits, then the whole scale of what is right
and wrong in the picture would drastically change.If you dont believe gays are justified in wanting equality then your just as prejudice as the
guy/girl who believes blacks shouldnt because that is a belief that equality does not have to extend to everyone and that is something I find
incredibly hypocritical. Simply because if the shoe were on the other foot, you would be very upset....

Care to provide any of those "studies", if you please..?
It is true that there where several studies done earlier during the 1900's, but those studies are now viewed upon as severely flawed and outdated.
Not any least beacuse of the studies made during the late 90's, of a number of homosexual males brains and those brains physiology, aswell as further
research that have succesfully proven that it is least of all a "choise".

Earlier and backwards in time, it was made several experiments both with homosexual aswell as transgendered people, where the doctors tried to
"cure" the "patient" with injections of Testosterone. Something that only made the individual unhappy, and in the long run, turned out to be a
completely useless and unsuccesful "treatment".

The one that started all the mess about the idea that sexual orientation and even mental gender would be something non-biological and thus,
changeable, is i dellusion stemming from the 60's and the works of Sexologist Dr. John Money, that tried to prove the theory by transforming boys
into girls and girls into boys. Cases that -on the contrary- disproved his point, and showed that orientations aswell as gender, is impossible to
change by force.

Being gay is NOT the same as being black, Jewish or a woman. The later cannot change their position but gays can, they simply can just CHOOSE not to
be.

Really? Is that you speaking from experience or just assuming that's the way it works?

There is nothing "natural" about a man being with another man and a woman being with another woman. When you really look at it from outside the
situation it really looks insane.

I would say that depends on WHOSE "outside" your speaking of...or do you just mean YOUR version of whatever "outside" is which ofcourse sides with
your opinion (shockingly

).Nevermind that throughout history there are all sorts of examples of homosexuality in various ages and classes
(Greeks,Romans,English,French,etc. they all have their own accounts....)

I believe it is just a struggle of the flesh that needs to be overcome like anything else.

That smacks of fundementalism, which ofcourse is NOT bias at all on the subject of homosexuality....so they MUST be the voice of reason on issues such
as these.

There have been thousands of documented studies and cases where gay people from birth have successfully gone and stayed straight.

Really? oh yes you mean like conditioning? like brainwashing people into thinking that they are disgusting for feeling as they do? You mean to say
that they aren't in denial? That they just realized that they "changed their mind"? I wonder how we would all feel if a church that was backwards
tried to brainwash straights into gay lifestyle,telling them that being straight was abhorrent and sickening....

They constantly pressure legislatures to change our constitution and the divine laws of this world that have prevailed for thousands of years

Really? thousands of years? divine laws by whose standards? Yours? A book that has been openly corrupted by many many rulers among the years its
existed for political means? Hardly sounds divine if its so easily corrupted, hardly sounds divine if it was in fact made by man's hand....

They demand the same rights as people who have no control over their natural born ethnicity or gender.

I wonder why that is....How hard is the wood in your skull really??

Making matters worse, homosexuals have an extremely powerful secret society with their own symbols, language and agenda and have permeated all facets
of government and big business to force their agenda on us from the top down and then penalize those who are against it. They call straight people
advocates of hate when it is obvious now that gays hate straight people and would love nothing more than to turn the entire world into a gay paradise
where they can do as they will. They are constantly trying to convert people to being gay. They are so powerful and widespread that they don't even
need laws in their favor. They have always taken care of their own and that's why gays are typically very successful and even wealthy. Nevertheless,
they will not stop until the world bows down to their lifestyle by using brilliant lawyers to pervert and exploit civil rights and constitutional
loopholes to succeed.

Is that why they have the same rights as their heterosexual counterparts? Thats why they are still very much one of the very least respected
minorities in America? Is that why Prop 8 succeeded? Because THEY are so influential? I think if anything it is quite the opposite and you sir are
utterly delusional....

For quite a few there is a mater of choice in their lifestyle. There are many bisexuals that choose a homosexual or heterosexual lifestyle depending
on how they feel at the time. Some do so on a permanent basis. There are indeed some that have agendas. So do many straights, ever look into
pro-life/pro-choice? people are people.

As to secret agendas, I am sure that there are some that have those that do, just as straights do. Dick Cheney and Al Gore certainly do have their
agendas for us all and perhaps some secret ones as well.

And yes, I have been discriminated against by homosexuals. My lesbian neighbors would not invite me to their bonfire/cookouts. Not because I would be
a problem, but because not everyone there would accept me or may feel uncomfortable with me there. I understood the situation, but they still felt bad
about it. Because I am a good person and they felt I could use some socializing after Anne had left.

However, we should be very careful about saying that chemical and physiological reactions are acceptable in all situations. Rape is not an acceptable
lifestyle, yet physical stimulation reactions can occur in the victims. Even I have been fondled on more than once occasion while asleep by a woman
that I allowed to sleep over. It is not a good way to wake me up if I did not intend that kind of relationship with them. As to if a guy was to pull
something like that, well I was brought up to hit a woman...guys, straight or gay, are fair game however.

To compare being homosexual with being Black is an insult to Black people.

I'm not sure whether or not everybody choose to be gay, but the ones who do seem to be rather disgusting. Maybe you should try to view the situation
from someone else's perspective.

It's 2009. Gay people are already treated with dignity and respect. Don't be such a damn victim. Boycotting companies because you think that they
are anti-gay or whatever is ostracizing potential supporters. Is homosexuality a matter of philosophy to someone who's gay, or is it simply playing
the hand that he's been dealt?

For that matter, how many of us are "patriotic" simply because we happen to be born in a certain place, rather than because of any appreciable
qualities?

Originally posted by rcwj75
Bottom line is this. Not everyone has to be accepting of GAYS...not people, not groups, not private businesses. When are GAY people going to
understand that their lifestyle WILL NOT be accepted fully...EVER! Agree with it or not, why is it the gay community thinks they should be allowed
to FORCE everyone to accept it...and if someone doesn't except it, they somehow have recourse? I don't get it.

I found this post to be offensive. You don't seem to recognize that these Bible heads are always trying to force religion on gays and become violent
when not heard. So do NOT exclude them. That statement you made is so irellivent, because fact is when people aren't allowed to express their true
nature, they will start to let people know exactly how they feel. Is self expression too much for you?

To compare being homosexual with being Black is an insult to Black people.

I'm not sure whether or not everybody choose to be gay, but the ones who do seem to be rather disgusting. Maybe you should try to view the situation
from someone else's perspective.

It's 2009. Gay people are already treated with dignity and respect. Don't be such a damn victim. Boycotting companies because you think that they
are anti-gay or whatever is ostracizing potential supporters. Is homosexuality a matter of philosophy to someone who's gay, or is it simply playing
the hand that he's been dealt?

For that matter, how many of us are "patriotic" simply because we happen to be born in a certain place, rather than because of any appreciable
qualities?

Thats fine that it is your opinion, however there are plenty of similarities in which they were treated or are treated by the general populace....They
are minorities and in that respect they are in and of themselves equivalent in comparison about their rights. All I am saying is whatever they decide
in their sexual orientation, its none of anyone else's business. They are still humans and deserve the rights of any other human just as much as any
other minority or the majority. Prejudice in the work place is still prejudice no matter what the color of skin is, the sexual preference, or the
religious belief...That has nothing to do with the work performance or their ability to perform....Denying benefits to one minority and saying it just
cost too much is the same as denying them benefits and saying they aren't important enough to cover, because money is more important than the health
of their employees THAT JUST SO HAPPEN TO BE GAY....I think its fair to ponder the implications of alot of what the opposition posts state as why its
fair to discriminate against gays anywhere but particularly in the work place....It's ludicrous and one sided and diluted in hypocrisy to an insane
level....

Originally posted by rcwj75
Bottom line is this. Not everyone has to be accepting of GAYS...not people, not groups, not private businesses. When are GAY people going to
understand that their lifestyle WILL NOT be accepted fully...EVER! Agree with it or not, why is it the gay community thinks they should be allowed
to FORCE everyone to accept it...and if someone doesn't except it, they somehow have recourse? I don't get it.

I found this post to be offensive. You don't seem to recognize that these Bible heads are always trying to force religion on gays and become violent
when not heard. So do NOT exclude them. That statement you made is so irellivent, because fact is when people aren't allowed to express their true
nature, they will start to let people know exactly how they feel. Is self expression too much for you?

People's "true nature" is not to be civilized.

How about we all just go around raping virgins!

[edit on 22-3-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

Is it sarcasm I am reading or Ignorance? So you are saying we are not civilized? Look at our evolutionary history and how far we have made it. We are
different now than we were back in pre-historic times. I think it is safe to say we have come a long way as civilized people (especially with all
these Chemicals and phenoms our government gives us). Ignorant to say we are not civilized by nature. If this is true than why do we want equality for
all? So that we can run wild and bash everyone in the face? Exactly... If humans are uncivilized by nature I wonder what you call an organized Pride
of Lions?

In my mind it's a yes and no. There are those things out there that we can actually do something about but only so much as one small piece and then
it's up to the rest of us to do their own small part to make up the whole. Then there are those things (lets use an ice sheet melting faster then
ever anticipated as an example) where there is very little impact one person's contributions will have on such grand scale sequences of events. THEN
there are things like civil rights and equality that are to some degree in a way both of the latter categories and not at all at the same time...if
you get what I'm saying...Essentially stating that depending on the viewpoint your looking at it from it may very well be the thing you say IS the
more important thing to worry about.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
People's "true nature" is not to be civilized.

How about we all just go around raping virgins!

Is it sarcasm I am reading or Ignorance? So you are saying we are not civilized? Look at our evolutionary history and how far we have made it. We are
different now than we were back in pre-historic times. I think it is safe to say we have come a long way as civilized people (especially with all
these Chemicals and phenoms our government gives us). Ignorant to say we are not civilized by nature. If this is true than why do we want equality for
all? So that we can run wild and bash everyone in the face? Exactly... If humans are uncivilized by nature I wonder what you call an organized Pride
of Lions?

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