So uuh, start tweeting about how great the new season of Daredevil is.

At this stage it feels like Netflix could help their shows by telling viewers what metrics they take into account along with weighting. They don't have to tell us how high a show is scoring on these metrics just let us know what they want. Eg when we knew live ratings were most important on a show we could make an effort of watching live. I don't know what Netflix want from me beyond my money.

I can imagine there's a far less passionate social media response for #saveironfist than there was for sense8 if that's what they were hoping for with the cancellations. Maybe they were planning on "listening to the fans" and wrapping up cage and fist's stories in a "defenders" special?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

They're cancelling the shows because of Disney's forthcoming streaming service.

I really don't think this is the case. They've known about the new streaming service for a while and were already writing the third season of Luke Cage when it got the Axe. I think it's more what was suggested in the last thread, they don't need five marvel shows. Just Daredevil would probably get all the Marvel fans to subscribe, the rest are just superfluous from a business perspective. So if they aren't critically acclaimed or driving conversation on the internet why keep paying to make them.

Share on other sites

I'm calling it right now, Bullseye is totes gonna show up in The Punisher at some point.

Why would they cancel over that?

I have nothing concrete. Just that when Disney get their streaming service off the ground they're gonna need popular content to draw subscribers. And these Marvel shows, whatever you think of the quality, are very popular.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'm calling it right now, Bullseye is totes gonna show up in The Punisher at some point.

That would be great. If the Marvel Netflix era is ending they should at least end The Punisher season two with a montage of him easily killing Bullseye, Typhoid Mary and Diamondback.

29 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Why would they cancel over that?

The thinking is that Disney intentionally asked for too much money to continue the shows because they want these characters back so they can do their own shows with them (that would actually be in the MCU.) Again I don't think that's what's happening, but it could be one factor. I can't see Disney putting out another take on these characters so soon anyway.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I don't think the situation is like that, exactly. IF was just not very good, so no one should be surprised it was cancelled. But the difference in the IF and LC cancellation seems to be that afterwards, Netflix and Marvel Television and the actors all sounded like the "immortal" Ironfist would somehow appear again. Some thought LC3, some wondered at another The Defenders, whatever, but in any case, there seems to have been a notion that the character had a future on Netflix. Not so with LC, which tells me Deadline's story about acrimony and creative disagreements were right, and so someone soured.

Maybe the acrimony has to do with IF and Netflix realizing that Marvel was looking to force its way out of its deals by putting up roadblocks, I guess. I admit to feeling pessimistic. But we'll see.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I have nothing concrete. Just that when Disney get their streaming service off the ground they're gonna need popular content to draw subscribers. And these Marvel shows, whatever you think of the quality, are very popular.

On 10/24/2018 at 10:09 AM, RumHam said:

The thinking is that Disney intentionally asked for too much money to continue the shows because they want these characters back so they can do their own shows with them (that would actually be in the MCU.) Again I don't think that's what's happening, but it could be one factor. I can't see Disney putting out another take on these characters so soon anyway.

Won't Netflix have to not use the characters for 5+ years before the rights revert back to Marvel? Similar to the movie rights. So it's not like they can just transfer production of these shows to their own streaming service. And I'm sure Netflix owns the distribution rights to the content they produced, so Disney won't be able to stream these shows on their service.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Won't Netflix have to not use the characters for 5+ years before the rights revert back to Marvel? Similar to the movie rights. So it's not like they can just transfer production of these shows to their own streaming service. And I'm sure Netflix owns the distribution rights to the content they produced, so Disney won't be able to stream these shows on their service.

I'm not sure, it would depend on the terms of the deal. I'm sure they included one of those inactivity clauses but they may have also reserved the rights to use or reclaim the characters at any time. When they made the Sony and Fox deals they were just a comic company desperate for cash. When they made the Netflix deal I'm sure they had a lot more negotiating power.

But yeah it's highly unlikely we'll ever see the Netflix shows on the Disney streaming service.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I thought the Netflix shows were produced by Marvel and therefore in house and not subject to any limits. They only got the Daredevil rights back some 5 years ago, I don’t think they in any way sold them to Netflix. Since they started their own studio, I do not think they sell rights at all anymore, that was part of a pre-Disney bankruptcy fire sale, they would rather gobble them back up, like with X-Men; The partnership with Sony was the best they could do for Spider-Man.

I am sure they can’t stream the 3 seasons of Daredevil aired on Netflix, but I would be surprised if there is anything stopping them from producing new ones.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Morpheus

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I think the shows are exclusive to Netflix. So the productions can't just move to something else. Netflix invested a lot and is not going to have a contract that basically says Disney can develop the show with its money, launch it with its money, and then go and take it elsewhere. I imagine that if they agree to stop the shows, it won't be a surprise if the characters lie fallow for at least a couple of years before Disney does something with them on TV again.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure marvel owns all the characters. It's more a case of they revert back to marvel if others don't use them. In theory Luke cage and iron fist could be left to stew for decades and marvel still keeps them.

What's interesting is how long Netflix can keep the shows. They are "originals" do in that sense they should have forever but it may be that Disney can pay to have them returned if they really want all the marvel stuff to stream in-house. Personally I think Disney will go the burn Netflix by pronouncing them non canon routine in the future and just make shows that clearly contradict them.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I have nothing concrete. Just that when Disney get their streaming service off the ground they're gonna need popular content to draw subscribers. And these Marvel shows, whatever you think of the quality, are very popular.

They'll have Star Wars content to show. The live action show that Jon Favreau is making might be ready by then or at least soon after the streaming service launch. If not that, the new/final season of Clone Wars will be on there.

I also have a feeling they'll take Agents of SHIELD from ABC, and use that, too.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Corvinus

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure marvel owns all the characters. It's more a case of they revert back to marvel if others don't use them. In theory Luke cage and iron fist could be left to stew for decades and marvel still keeps them.

What's interesting is how long Netflix can keep the shows. They are "originals" do in that sense they should have forever but it may be that Disney can pay to have them returned if they really want all the marvel stuff to stream in-house. Personally I think Disney will go the burn Netflix by pronouncing them non canon routine in the future and just make shows that clearly contradict them.

Yeah, you know that's coming. As soon as they mentioned doing Loki and Scarlet Witch shows with the movie actors. I'm guessing they'll just say all the old tv shows were in an alternate universe that split off around the time of The Incident?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure marvel owns all the characters. It's more a case of they revert back to marvel if others don't use them. In theory Luke cage and iron fist could be left to stew for decades and marvel still keeps them.

What's interesting is how long Netflix can keep the shows. They are "originals" do in that sense they should have forever but it may be that Disney can pay to have them returned if they really want all the marvel stuff to stream in-house. Personally I think Disney will go the burn Netflix by pronouncing them non canon routine in the future and just make shows that clearly contradict them.

Netflix pastes "original" over a lot of shows that aren't made by them, so I don't think the word really matters. I mean, it says Bodyguard is a Netflix original, but I definitely watched it as it aired live on BBC (well, not live, but I generally watched the episodes a short time after they aired) the past couple of months.

Edited October 26, 2018 by briantw

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The Marvel Netflix shows are absolutely Netflix exclusive. No one else shows them anywhere else in the world. They are paid for by Netflix and are made for Netflix and will live or die on Netflix. Doesn't mean the characters are locked up with Netflix forever, however, but the versions seen on the shows are not going anywhere else. If Disney's streaming business wants a Daredevil show, it'll have to be a brand new production, new actors, and so on.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

According to wikipedia, Netflix is merely the distributor, Marvel and ABC (a Disney company) are the producers, it is possible they can continue on Disney’s service. We are in an age where shows switch to different channels and platforms all the time.