ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)

The Urdu speaker called Suleman has a very clear and distinct accent of a Pathan. Just imagine that the vocal chords of the possessed Sikh boy are not trained to speak Pachto style accented language.

Secondly, there is a mention of the 74th Sect of Islam referring it to be the Dera wale Sant. Please note that in Islam there is a mention in their scriptures that there will be 73 sects and a Muslim is not to follow any of those except the one true path.

Thirdly, the Sant is asking general questions which anyone would ask. Even favors from the so-called ghost. This shows that nothing about him is associated with illumination. Sant is supposed to be far ahead of human entrapment.

1947-2014 (Archived)

Let me explain my decision to delete the last 2 posts in more detail. There is a fine line between a subjective response to a topic and 'trolling' during an online discussion. Some readers may be unfamiliar with the fact that there are many threads in this forum that have already discussed ghosts, bhoots, preets, and other so-called supernatural truths in considerable detail. They might then think that a subject has not been put into perspective already at SPN. Or they might think that Sikhism adheres to the practice of prayer to rest the ghosts.

Sikhism according to both Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the Sikh Rehat Maryada discourages this. Maybe it is accidental. Maybe it is sincere. Maybe it is a deliberate effort at trolling. However, responding to these comments one way or the other will only encourage more of it. The best way is not to continue it.

There has been many a robust dialog on both ideas on other threads.. I have to conclude that the decision to carry the discussion of Suleiman into a new direction about hearing voices and reciting paths to quiet spirits and rid our homes of them is disruptive, and therefore is trolling. Find another way to talk about the thread topic!

If anyone desires to pursue my comments by private message be fore-warned that I will only repeat what I have already said here. Thanks/spnadmin

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)

Usually there is alot of masala added to create an aura of positivity for a Dera Leader. There is nothing unique about it except that he adheres to the tenets of Sikhism. All that cosmetic make up to upgrade him to a position of Sant is actually futile.

The video tries to make a point that only a Living Holy Sant or Living Guru can release trapped Souls our of Hell's snares.

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

Usually there is alot of masala added to create an aura of positivity for a Dera Leader. There is nothing unique about it except that he adheres to the tenets of Sikhism. All that cosmetic make up to upgrade him to a position of Sant is actually futile.

The video tries to make a point that only a Living Holy Sant or Living Guru can release trapped Souls our of Hell's snares.

Exact same "logic" is pushed in sakhis that tell us how so and so GURU JI killed so and so animal..snake..rabbit..bear..etc etc..in order to RELEASE the trapped SOUL... All this is total BULLS*** becasue our GURU is SHABAD GURU..SGGS..and thus no more "trapped souls" can be relased anymore..becos..SGGS cant shoot an arrow !!! Funny ?? you bet...This type of LOGIC is DEHDHAREE GURUDOM...and is aimed at insulting the SGGS the Shabad Guru that pre-dates GURU NANAK Ji...

There are no trapped souls in Gurmatt and there are no supernatural voices and ghosts and trolls...or fairies or demons...

FAKE babas, (UN)Holy Mahapurashs etc or WANNA BE Babas trying hard to make a name for themsleves hear such voices and hold akhand paaths to do PR exercises for themsleves...as is this Tape manufactured by the Fake Baba

1947-2014 (Archived)

No human guru wants to liberate anyone from fear, least of all from the mistaken fear of the "snares of Hell." Why would a guru liberate anyone from fear? Such a guru would lose his grip on fragile minds.

If he adheres to the tenets of Sikhism, then he should know - and he should teach - that only the everlasting Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji liberates us from all fear.

Thus, that video guru is promoting a {censored}-eyed vision of the soul.

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)

If anyone tries to sell me stories of Nand Singh or Isher Singh Rara Sahib Wale, they will first convert me into an Atheist. These stories, Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji, are created to keep us blind and are Vedic cultural tradition. Sikhs are out of these Vedic teachings.

There was a post in Sikhi Lehar Malaysia saying that Ghosts possessing a person are real. I replied to their disappointment that they should see a psychiatrist and take anti-depressants.

Of course, if there are trolls ghosts and other entities as stated in Gauri Sukhmani, then just accept them as part and parcel of creation. And get on with out human bound living.

We are already doing God the favor in living in human consciousness and our muscles and nerves are not designed to sit for long hours in meditation. We just do and live as God made us. No need to run after Babeys.

Exact same "logic" is pushed in sakhis that tell us how so and so GURU JI killed so and so animal..snake..rabbit..bear..etc etc..in order to RELEASE the trapped SOUL... All this is total BULLS*** becasue our GURU is SHABAD GURU..Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..and thus no more "trapped souls" can be relased anymore..becos..Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cant shoot an arrow !!! Funny ?? you bet...This type of LOGIC is DEHDHAREE GURUDOM...and is aimed at insulting the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji the Shabad Guru that pre-dates GURU NANAK Ji...

There are no trapped souls in Gurmatt and there are no supernatural voices and ghosts and trolls...or fairies or demons...

FAKE babas, (UN)Holy Mahapurashs etc or WANNA BE Babas trying hard to make a name for themsleves hear such voices and hold akhand paaths to do PR exercises for themsleves...as is this Tape manufactured by the Fake Baba

Jarnail Singh Ji, You definitely cleared that statement for me. No doubt about it that there are fake babas that do tactics such as fake miracles and such still in India just to make a name for themselves. Someone like me should not be so oblivious when I hear the word Sant. I guess today wrong deeds done with gyanis with the word Sant attached to the front of their name. Especially today everyone who questions Sikhism always looks for miracles to show proof of God's work before reading Gurmukhi Scriptures. I guess that's why Sants use these tactics such as fake tapes (like this one) to encourage someone that they themselves are great because like I said people in every religion likes to hear miracle stories over everything else. You see priests doing those fake exorcisms all over the world and even fake Christian Missionary Miracles going on in Punjab. The poor are the most influenced by it because of not that much knowledge they have. Too bad Christianity only cares about a bigger population and missionaries are there to keep it going.

Back on topic. Gyani Ji, Whats the stance on Spirits that roam around afterlife or whenever. Whats the explanation for that?

1947-2014 (Archived)

We are not going to continue this line of discussion as if the video has 'merits,' with an attempt to back the 'merits' up with incomplete vichaar of the shabads that mention ghosts. Trying this tactic is not an effective work-around for my earlier criticism. If I mention vampires in a paragraph that does not mean I believe they exist. Same way, the Gurus reject ghosts even though they mention them.

I would appreciate a vichaar of a complete shabad - given in Gurmukhi and Engish with Ang number - used to explain Gurus' standing on ghosts by Astroboy ji. This has been discussed in previous threads. Our members need to evaluate whether the vichaar has merits according to Gurmat sources.

Second point,. Abneet ji, You can feel free to reply once the request has been met for a complete shabad and complete vichaar. You also quoted single tuks. We need to take a look at what the Gurus are really saying about ghosts, not what we wish they would say, or what Sant Singh Khalsa's translations say. The Hindu view on these matters is rejected in Gurbani. Don't pretend that I don't exist, ignore what I have asked, and on the other hand suggest that ghosts do exist. Thank you

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

GURBANI IS FOR HUMANS...written/spoken/in human language/script/on paper/using ink/recorded on cds dvds usbs tapes..made by humans for humans..the voice/speech/spoken gurbani can only be heard by human ears (spectrum based on human ear) seen by human eyes (based on human sight spectrum)...

i have 8 wonderful dogs..who become quiet and listen to gurbani/path/tv kirtan etc...and i thought they "understood" gurbani...no they dont..its just their way of "pleasing" ME..their Master...they dont get any gurbani...as its not meant for them....why ?? Becasue one of them was fostered out for a few months to a friend who needed company of a pet...and that friend watched ONLY BOLLYWOOD movies...and that DOG i lent which used to "watch" Kirtan with me..began to watch "Mast Movies"...just as "quietly and peacefully" as he used to watch Darbar sahib Live form Amrtisar !! WHY ?? because he was trying to please his Master...Now Hes BACK...and hes the ONLY one who is FIDGETY while Kirtan is LIVE..but is getting used to it...I checked and put Mast Movies..and he seemd to be the ONLY ONE enjoying while the other 7 were fidegty..so for them..its simply HABIT..not UNDERSTANDING or divinity of Gurbani..

I bought a house that was "haunted"...the SIKH ( most PIOUS..paath mumbling type with maaala and Karras on both wrists) who sold it to me had done an Akhand Paath and fed Five "Granthis"..etc etc...and still the
ghost" haunted him....and i bought it CHEAP....but cant seem to find the "ghost"....the old owner was flabbergasted that i never heard any windows creaking or doors banging and lights going out..i told him i let my 8 dogs have a field day running in the empty house..probably scared the living daylights out of the ghost..he he he...the Tenant has been living there for one year already..not a peep from him either....

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

BTW..any of my friends living in MALAYSIA..have haunted houses to sell...I will BUY at 50% below Market price...( Ghost included)....cost of ghost pays the 50% !!!..and I will NOT do any akhand paaths or feed any five granthis etc...the ghost will flee of its own free will !!! he he he..:grinningsingh:

GURBANI IS FOR HUMANS...written/spoken/in human language/script/on paper/using ink/recorded on cds dvds usbs tapes..made by humans for humans..the voice/speech/spoken gurbani can only be heard by human ears (spectrum based on human ear) seen by human eyes (based on human sight spectrum)...

i have 8 wonderful dogs..who become quiet and listen to gurbani/path/tv kirtan etc...and i thought they "understood" gurbani...no they dont..its just their way of "pleasing" ME..their Master...they dont get any gurbani...as its not meant for them....why ?? Becasue one of them was fostered out for a few months to a friend who needed company of a pet...and that friend watched ONLY BOLLYWOOD movies...and that DOG i lent which used to "watch" Kirtan with me..began to watch "Mast Movies"...just as "quietly and peacefully" as he used to watch Darbar sahib Live form Amrtisar !! WHY ?? because he was trying to please his Master...Now Hes BACK...and hes the ONLY one who is FIDGETY while Kirtan is LIVE..but is getting used to it...I checked and put Mast Movies..and he seemd to be the ONLY ONE enjoying while the other 7 were fidegty..so for them..its simply HABIT..not UNDERSTANDING or divinity of Gurbani..

I bought a house that was "haunted"...the SIKH ( most PIOUS..paath mumbling type with maaala and Karras on both wrists) who sold it to me had done an Akhand Paath and fed Five "Granthis"..etc etc...and still the
ghost" haunted him....and i bought it CHEAP....but cant seem to find the "ghost"....the old owner was flabbergasted that i never heard any windows creaking or doors banging and lights going out..i told him i let my 8 dogs have a field day running in the empty house..probably scared the living daylights out of the ghost..he he he...the Tenant has been living there for one year already..not a peep from him either....

Interesting story. Its strange how almost every major religion has a ritual to exorcise a ghost from a house or a "posessed person" and then there's Sikhism where there's no point of having a ritual for such thing (even though Akhand Paath is tried). Its good topic indeed :sippingcoffeemunda:. An ghost having possession over a Sikhs body? Never heard a scenario like that. Never will (hopefully).

Enthusiast

I was raised believing in superstitions, ghosts, spirits, witchcraft, clairvoyance, communication with dead people etc... and was terrified of all that stuff for a very long time until I found Sikhi and the Guru put a light on all that hoo-haa and saved me from insanity. Now it upsets me when people I care for pay lots of good money to people to tell their futures and communicate with their deceased relatives, etc. If it makes them happy then I'll just smile and nod but I worry about them getting told some distressing rubbish and being manipulated eventually. It's all psychology.

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

THE LATEST SUCH CHARLATAN WHO IS A VERY VERY "FAMOUS" (infamous ACTUALLY)..is someone called Syed Peer and who is in UK. Over the decades he ahs cheated at least 8MILLION Pounds ( a figure the police knows about but real amount..unknown) He claimed via huge ads in all newspapers, tv etc to chase out ghosts, exorcise ghosts, evil spirits, etc etc etc...he was recently found guilty of FRAUD..ordered to pay back 8000 pounds to woman who sued him and jailed 15 months...read the full news here... and a SIKH SANT who ahs LOST 3 cases in UK..is still going at proving himself a SAINT..he is baba form Johal...

Reading this thread, I was reminded of Houdini. Houdini made his living out of illusions and magic, but also crusaded against the exploitation of unsuspecting and emotional people by seance artists and charlatans. He even held special sessions and shows to expose such thugs. Houdini knew the reality of magic and trickery and was not afraid to announce that reality among his audiences, though he could have easily made fortunes like some charlatans of his age. Perhaps we need to learn something from him.

THE LATEST SUCH CHARLATAN WHO IS A VERY VERY "FAMOUS" (infamous ACTUALLY)..is someone called Syed Peer and who is in UK. Over the decades he ahs cheated at least 8MILLION Pounds ( a figure the police knows about but real amount..unknown) He claimed via huge ads in all newspapers, tv etc to chase out ghosts, exorcise ghosts, evil spirits, etc etc etc...he was recently found guilty of FRAUD..ordered to pay back 8000 pounds to woman who sued him and jailed 15 months...read the full news here... and a SIKH SANT who ahs LOST 3 cases in UK..is still going at proving himself a SAINT..he is baba form Johal...

It is still very live today in Africa and even in Punjab where trickery is used to make people believe fake miracles being done in front of them. It's sad that no one today really wants to expose fake babas because of how much money gets put into those fake organizations that they don't want to get involved in (example:Christian Missionaries). Some actually do expose fake babas though no doubt about it.

I actually have a little story to be honest including my mom always getting advice from this baba for past years. This baba was located in Kashmir (where my family is from). I told her though when I was around 15 that this guy definitely a fraud. I remember him sitting in a disclosed spot in town and having a agent on the phone for making his next appointment. He even asks my Mom for money and his advice was bunch of Bull****. I told my mom don't look up to a fake baba for spiritual advice only look up to GGS because that's what the Guru Ji's left us with. Its sad still that a lot of people look up to these idols for advice in life.....

Apologies for hijacking the thread and question below can be moved to new thread.

Why is there so much hate here at SPN for derawallahs or any other person calling them sant. Where is our humility?

There might be 100-1000s of these fake pakhandi sants(maybe more)and most of these babas are fake, money minded, manmukhs BUT have we personally tried to find the truth, is there a slight possibility that there is a good sant on this earth? How good is it to weigh all in the same scale? are we really good judges?

And to those who used word "Dehdharis" means having born in flesh, can they reject that none of the 10 gurus was dehdhari?
I am not against your opinion,I simply don't like the hate.

Most of you probably heard this story on the internet about Sant Isher Singh Ji Maharaj having a conversation with a ghost who has possessed a Singh's body whom he previously knew. I know the whole thing sounds odd, but does anyone have verification that this happened? My grandpa told me that there are Sants that have had such things happen to them later in life, but he said he never heard such a story happen in Hapur. Then there's Sikhs on the net claiming their relatives of some other relatives were there when he (the ghost) was reincarnated. But than on my mom's side some say it was a childhood story that was actually true because how big it changed many Sikhs life into taking Sikhi more serious.

So is this all a hoax? But whats really fascinating is how the ghost describes afterlife it kind of frightens you even he may be lying. It is amusing how he describes everything and too me it seems too real. It's intriguing.

As far as authenticity of this video, no one here can confirm unless they have any personal connection to people present at the time of recording.
As far as authenticity of what Ghost is saying considering that this is an authentic recording cannot be confirmed unless someone has a first hand experience death.
Only scale to measure the authenticity is that we can do a open minded research using SGGS and see if the story sounds legit?

If someone know that A) Sant Isher singh is fake pakhandi baba then they can claim that this recording is fake but not based on their assumption or what others say about Sant Isher Singh.

Most of you probably heard this story on the internet about Sant Isher Singh Ji Maharaj having a conversation with a ghost who has possessed a Singh's body whom he previously knew. I know the whole thing sounds odd, but does anyone have verification that this happened? My grandpa told me that there are Sants that have had such things happen to them later in life, but he said he never heard such a story happen in Hapur. Then there's Sikhs on the net claiming their relatives of some other relatives were there when he (the ghost) was reincarnated. But than on my mom's side some say it was a childhood story that was actually true because how big it changed many Sikhs life into taking Sikhi more serious.

So is this all a hoax? But whats really fascinating is how the ghost describes afterlife it kind of frightens you even he may be lying. It is amusing how he describes everything and too me it seems too real. It's intriguing.

This is an authentic audio from what really happened. Sant isher singh rara sahib were in the room with a few other people from the sangat as well as little boy who had the voice of that man in the audio above. There was also a singh who recorded this conversation that the few people from the sangat had with suleiman, the recorder's family is still alive in the UK and have authenticated the audio file aswell as speaking upon it in a documentary. Sant isher singh ji was from rara sahib and instead of just telling the world about life after death they showed the sangat which is when suleiman was talking about what happened to him after he died. We should all be grateful for this gem of an audio. Sant isher singh is one of the most well known saints in sikhi in this modern era and if you have parents or grandparents from india, they would have deifinetely heard of sant isher singh ji. They did seva for their whole life and they made 1 million sikhs into amritdharis throughout their life.