According to Apple, the netbook market is not a market they want to partake in, because they believe the current crop of netbooks is not good enough. Well, good enough or not, netbook sales are still growing like crazy, according to the latest figures from DisplaySearch.

They will make a netbook that blinks and patent it. People will praise it like blinking make the netbook finally usable when it was not. Although it will have less than 1% of the market and be sold for twice the price of comparable products that do not blink, people will still talk about it like it was the first usable netbook, exactly like they praise the iPhone. Just put an apple logo on it, put it on TV and the fans will follow.

LOL...That's so true...Introducing the iNetbook...A revolutionizing netbook designed the Apple way. It is made of aluminum, it has an Apple sticker, it's twice the price, and people rush to stores while there still are.

We took the Apple Air, and made the screen half the size.. introducing the Apple Breath.. the netbook reinvented.. the Air exhaled in a Breath of coolness

(and with that end of comercial quick included voice; "Prices may vary. Check your local Apple store for details. 'Air', 'Breath', 'coolness', 'reinvented' trademarks of Apple. Turtleneck not included.")

Charade? Oh, please...let's understand Apple's business model first. They are a hardware company that believes in healthy margins for their products. And...they have a brand that connotes upscale devices (whether it's true or not...that's for others to decide).

After running the numbers, they decided that hitching a wagon to a low-margin, low-status netbook might just not be the way to go. And...considering Apple's success with the iPod, iPhone, and the Apple Retail Stores...I think they may have a greater understanding of their business model than any of you punters.

People will praise it like blinking make the netbook finally usable when it was not.

I'm not a fan of iPhone, and I don't plan to buy one, but it is the first "smartphone/pda" style device DONE RIGHT.
I tried some of these things and I would like to squash WM/Symbian developers with a giant hammer in the name of nature.

That is your opinion. There are plenty of smart phones that are still more popular than the iPhone. In the states, RIM is still beating Apple when it comes to blackberry vs iPhone sales. If what you say is true, imagine how popular the blackberry would be if they actually got it right!

That is your opinion. There are plenty of smart phones that are still more popular than the iPhone. In the states, RIM is still beating Apple when it comes to blackberry vs iPhone sales. If what you say is true, imagine how popular the blackberry would be if they actually got it right!

RIM is beating Apple for four reasons:

1) All 4 major carriers have Blackberry products
2) Blackberry have a number of similar but different products
3) Time in the industry
4) Businesses often require Blackberry use

If Apple had a CDMA version and T-Mobile had a strong 3G network and there wasn't an exclusive agreement with AT&T, Apple would be further into the market. The number 1 reason iPhone owners dislike their experience is because of AT&T. Even Verizon has been advertising that their service for Blackberry products is better.

As Android becomes more complete, you can expect RIM to lose market share, also.

Thoughts on the Nokia N900? They've taken the N810 and added a cell radio with mobile phone functions. For my needs, it blows the iPhones out of the water but I'm interested to hear other's thoughts (getting myself over the romance phase so I can plan the purchase rationally).

Its not tied to an App Store, Its got a more open SDK (allow python QT and GTK) and API access to an FM radio. It already looks better. Now, if they allow MTA (file transfer mode) access so people can put files on it like an MP3 player, it will have 1up on RockBox.

Its not tied to an App Store, Its got a more open SDK (allow python QT and GTK) and API access to an FM radio. It already looks better. Now, if they allow MTA (file transfer mode) access so people can put files on it like an MP3 player, it will have 1up on RockBox.

Maemo devices in general are one step ahead of MTP - when you connect via usb, you can use the device as USB mass storage or even set up USB networking (usb-ethernet) and use scp/ssh to hack on the device.

I do that already. Amrok mounts a local machine directory instead of a device when I tell it to mount a device. This separates my portable music copy from the bulk music library. I then do an rsync/ssh which moves new music to the N810 and deletes anything that's been trimmed out of the portable directory. On the N810, I have a similar rsync/ssh download script. This way I can push the music update over to the portable or I can pull the music update down to the portable when not at home. (if there was an SSH deamon implementation for Windows, all my machines would talk natively, seamlessly and securely)

MTP.. bah..

With the new one, besides the hardware improvements and additions, I'm hoping for PIM management closer to the PalmOS quality and I'd really like to see some sync software between Maemo and KDE cause setting up an OpenSYNC bridging VM sucks.

That device is all kinds of pretty though. I can't wait to hear the release dates so I can start planning for the six month delay until prices drop.

True, the tossup is Cygwin or live with the client only winSCP/Putty. I go the latter as I can easily carry them around on USB but it means the Windows boxes can only ever be client side.. no quickly pushing something up to the Windows box from the PDA, a Debian or an osX.

I have N800 and it does a lot of things for me. Mail and RSS, Skype and Google Talk, GPS navigator for car and hikes, e-book reader, alarm clock, video and music player. This is what I really use. It is a great device for travel. And it does not cost me $80 per month for all of that.

If it has cellphone and internet access everywhere, it would be even more great, but, probably, it will have monthly service with some comparable price, so it becomes comparable with iPhone and android and others, and I do not know what to choose. See, maemo does not have apps, really. There are just few of them. And, as most of Linux apps, they are buggy. Sometimes up to the state of unusability. From the other hand, iPhone has a lot of apps. And they are polished. But closed. Hard choice, really.

It seems we're coming to the point that many people predicted where mobile computing includes a whole spectrum of devices from the 18-inch desktop-replacement beasts to tiny slimline telephones and everything in between. I think the new Nokia N900 is particularly indicative of this, since it has evolved actually from a palmtop computer (N800/N810) and now has telephone capabilites merged in with it.

All very cool stuff, but where is my brain-implant computer? Get cracking, boffins!

I am waiting to see what Apple will do, because I can't bring myself to buy a Netbook yet. There are umpteen different models out there, but they all have the same lame processor, lame graphics, limited hd options, cramped keyboard, and pathetic battery life.

If Apple enters this market, they will dominate because they will try to get the software right.

Whereas everyone else is just putting XP and Linux on these netbooks and hoping they work alright.

Of course, if Dell or some other company came out with cool software features and a specially designed OS package for a netbook, I would look seriously at them too.

Heck, I would even live with poor battery life and a cramped keyboard if the thing makes my life easier.

Of course, we all are waiting for the ION platform, so who knows? It may change my mind too.

I am waiting to see what Apple will do, because I can't bring myself to buy a Netbook yet. There are umpteen different models out there, but they all have the same lame processor, lame graphics, limited hd options, cramped keyboard, and pathetic battery life.
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Of course, we all are waiting for the ION platform, so who knows? It may change my mind too.

If only someone had the balls to pair a Via Nano CPU with an nVidia ION chipset, then we'd have a NetBook that could (possibly) replace a small laptop. Portability and power in one!

Apple doesn't want a Netbook, precisely for the reasons they have said. It's not that hard to understand. They make their cash and experience growth based on an image of higher quality and luxury. If they introduce a low quality item, that image is shattered.

In the short term, they would make money, but it would ultimately hurt them in the long term. Apple is smart because they are one of the few companies left that isn't run by marketers and economists.

Apple is smart because they are one of the few companies left that isn't run by marketers and economists.

You can not seriously believe that.

So I guess Dell is thriving because it is racing to the bottom? thats right, decline, decline, decline, decline and decline. Whilst Dell was penny pinching and making the over all experience crap for their customers, Apple has been growing even through a recession and financial crisis not seen since the depression.

Apple makes money by focusing on what brings the punters through the door - the product. Focus on the product and the profits will take care of themselves. As soon as you stop focusing on the product and instead focus on costs and profit you lose the focus - the focus being how the profit is made in the first place.

The profit is made by making widgets and selling them to the public. If you widgets are crap - all the price drops, costs cuts and marketing isn't going to disguise the fact that you're trying to sell mutton dressed up as lamb.

There's an old saw that goes like this: One guy asks another how can you make a profit when you're losing money on each sale; the other says, "we'll make it up on volume".

But that's not what's happening here. Dell and other OEMs sell a LOT of netbooks -- but they aren't losing money on each sale. First, it costs them less to produce a netbook than a regular laptop. Second, they sell support agreements with many/most of their machines. Third, they upsell to cellular carriers. Fourth, they get a break from Microsoft on the cost of the OS with netbooks.

The days of people carrying around expensive laptops seem to be coming to an end; particularly when many netbooks can do the things that people do most often: browse the Web, read/write email, etc. Granted, there will always be people who need more powerful laptops, but not a lot. Which (I think) is an indicator that today's consumer is a different kind of consumer than a few years ago. He/she values mobility and price, and they're willing to sacrifice high-end features to get that.

Apple HAS to be worried about this phenomenon. If they aren't -- and, believe me, they are -- then they're stupid. Why, you ask? Because if the market is trending to smaller-scale devices which blur the line between laptop and phone, it means that there's a potential for the netbook to scale in either direction. Intel's ION processor is a good example of a potential game-changer. It's too early to tell, but it's possible that Apple's iPhone market could be threatened.

There's an old saw that goes like this: One guy asks another how can you make a profit when you're losing money on each sale; the other says, "we'll make it up on volume".

But that's not what's happening here. Dell and other OEMs sell a LOT of netbooks -- but they aren't losing money on each sale. First, it costs them less to produce a netbook than a regular laptop. Second, they sell support agreements with many/most of their machines. Third, they upsell to cellular carriers. Fourth, they get a break from Microsoft on the cost of the OS with netbooks.

Where did I state that Dell was losing money? you ignore the whole post just to cherry pick one part completely out of context to the whole post.

The days of people carrying around expensive laptops seem to be coming to an end; particularly when many netbooks can do the things that people do most often: browse the Web, read/write email, etc. Granted, there will always be people who need more powerful laptops, but not a lot. Which (I think) is an indicator that today's consumer is a different kind of consumer than a few years ago. He/she values mobility and price, and they're willing to sacrifice high-end features to get that.

Ah yes, the same people that said desktops are going to die, Network Computers would take off, operating systems would become irrelevant, applications will be served up on the internet so the strangle hold of Microsoft will be eliminated. If you hadn't realised, it is 2009 and none of that stuff as happen - just as the like analyst companies who claimed that by this time Itanium via hardware sales (Servers and Workstations) would be close to $20billion by now; hasn't happened yet.

I've been hearing the same crap over and over again from the anti-Apple naysayers of the world; your record is becoming tiresome - stick to you knitting of ranting about 'XXXX is the year of the Linux Desktop".

Apple HAS to be worried about this phenomenon. If they aren't -- and, believe me, they are -- then they're stupid. Why, you ask? Because if the market is trending to smaller-scale devices which blur the line between laptop and phone, it means that there's a potential for the netbook to scale in either direction. Intel's ION processor is a good example of a potential game-changer. It's too early to tell, but it's possible that Apple's iPhone market could be threatened.

Yes, and the same crap was said when the economy went into the toilet and claims that people would stop purchasing Apple computers and there would be a massive boom in low cost laptops. Well here we are in 2009 and Apple hasn't seen a massive drop off in sales - so where is this dooms day scenario? Where is your evidence apart form some deep seated hatred of a company?

Where did I state that Dell was losing money? you ignore the whole post just to cherry pick one part completely out of context to the whole post.

Your comment about Dell "racing to the bottom" implies that their profitability is in question, while ignoring the impact of scale in the marketplace.

Ah yes, the same people that said desktops are going to die, Network Computers would take off, operating systems would become irrelevant, applications will be served up on the internet so the strangle hold of Microsoft will be eliminated...

Except this isn't just talk or marketing or wishful thinking. It's happening right now. Netbooks are outpacing sales of all other hardware, and OEMs (including Apple) would be well-served to examine these market trends.

Yes, and the same crap was said when the economy went into the toilet and claims that people would stop purchasing Apple computers and there would be a massive boom in low cost laptops. Well here we are in 2009 and Apple hasn't seen a massive drop off in sales - so where is this dooms day scenario? Where is your evidence apart form some deep seated hatred of a company?

I think you missed the point. I never said that "people would stop purchasing Apple computers". There are plenty of people out there who have bought into Apple's false marketing that its computers are better than anything else on the market, and they'll continue to buy because Apple has convinced them to embrace the idea of a "digital lifestyle", festooned with brushed aluminum and glowing Apple orbs. It's way too early to know what's going to happen. The trend in netbooks is a phenomenon which really only started to take hold last year. But it is a very real trend supported by actual data. Personally, I wouldn't want to bet against the sales numbers. But Apple has always clung to higher margins, so there's no reason to expect them to change.

Your comment about Dell "racing to the bottom" implies that their profitability is in question, while ignoring the impact of scale in the marketplace.

It is in question - their profits have been declining; I never linked it to one particular product, I pointed out about the larger trend of dropping prices where vendors whose only differentiator when everything else is the same is to drop the price. What is the difference between a Dell, HP and Toshiba laptop? they have the same hardware, same software, same operating system - the only thing different is the exterior and the price. There is a limit on how much you can practically change the exterior thus you're left with the price.

Except this isn't just talk or marketing or wishful thinking. It's happening right now. Netbooks are outpacing sales of all other hardware, and OEMs (including Apple) would be well-served to examine these market trends.

And that is why there is the iPod Touch; hopefully they'll keep working on it and maybe they'll release a bigger ipod touch (screen size) to cater for those who want a stripped down, on the go, portable computer that fits in between a laptop and mobile phone.

I never said that Netbooks were a fad, I was pointing to the fact that Apple isn't ignoring it; they've laid their path. Regarding 'Netbook sales are outpacing" - by what metric? units sold and thats it; when it comes to profit per unit its hardly a big money spinner.

I think you missed the point. I never said that "people would stop purchasing Apple computers".

You stated the following:

"The days of people carrying around expensive laptops seem to be coming to an end"

Where is the trend; where is the decline in MacBook/MacBook Pro sales to back up such a claim?

There are plenty of people out there who have bought into Apple's false marketing that its computers are better than anything else on the market, and they'll continue to buy because Apple has convinced them to embrace the idea of a "digital lifestyle", festooned with brushed aluminum and glowing Apple orbs.

So you brush people like me and many others with a massive brush simply because you have no interest in owning a Mac? Ever thought that someone like me bought a Mac because I like using Mac OS X instead of Windows - and I have no desire trying to hack Mac OS X to work on a generic PC?

But of course, according to your logic - all those who own Mac's are moronic simpletons who have been suckered in via Apple's marketing whilst you smugly sit there thinking you're superior.

It's way too early to know what's going to happen. The trend in netbooks is a phenomenon which really only started to take hold last year. But it is a very real trend supported by actual data. Personally, I wouldn't want to bet against the sales numbers. But Apple has always clung to higher margins, so there's no reason to expect them to change.

Again, you've shown no evidence for their to be a correlation between a decline in MacBook sales and a rise in Netbooks - if there was a link then your post would have merit but it fails to prove there is such a link or that there is even a link between Netbooks and the larger computer market as a whole.

Apple doesn't want a Netbook, precisely for the reasons they have said. It's not that hard to understand. They make their cash and experience growth based on an image of higher quality and luxury. If they introduce a low quality item, that image is shattered.

Why not keep the price above the mac mini? An $800 netbook would bring in nice profits and would be cleary overpriced so it wouldn't change their image.

Apple doesn't want a Netbook, precisely for the reasons they have said. It's not that hard to understand. They make their cash and experience growth based on an image of higher quality and luxury. If they introduce a low quality item, that image is shattered.

In the short term, they would make money, but it would ultimately hurt them in the long term. Apple is smart because they are one of the few companies left that isn't run by marketers and economists.

You're right, they're run by marketing and lawyers. Second only to Harley-Davidson.

are for those people who have to cart a laptop around the city. If you're carrying a separate laptop bag, you're a walking target. A netbook is small enough to stuff in a bookbag/backpack/whatever and not "look" like you're carrying around a notebook.

Other than that, I still fail to see the draw. Cheap/old technology in shiny packaging.

I have always refused to buy a laptop.
To big to be mobile and far to expensive.

For me it's a laptop done right. It does much more than I need:
enough battery life
space (120gb)
integrated graphics even supporting 3d games
like warzone 2100
camera (have no use for it)
card reader
usb
1gb ram (my main system doesn't have more)
and so on

I bought it (aspire 150L) for less then 150 euros, replaced the crappy Linpus thing with a real distro and now I'm very happy with it.

A laptop simply doesn't fit my needs and is too expensive. It's just a bad and expensive pc, with a lot of limitations while still being far away from mobile.

This remembers me to these very old (before 1995) mobile phones. These ugly big things. And they were better than laptops.

Other than that, I still fail to see the draw. Cheap/old technology in shiny packaging.

I just replaced my 1st gen Asus eeepc with an HP mini-note. The first generation netbooks were nice... but the keyboards were cramped, and a bit annoying in layout. And while the screen *size* was more or less OK to my 46 year old eyes... the 800x480 resolution was not OK for sites like OSNews.com which think they know more about how to lay out the pixels than your browser does. (And if you aren't running at least 1024 horizontal then tough on you.)

The mini-note is typical of modern netbooks. 1024x600 resolution. 9.1 inch screen. Very comfortable keyboard. As small as it can be without sacrificing usability... but no smaller. (Particularly wrt the keyboard.)

I have a laptop. I have a 1st gen netbook. And I have a current gen netbook. And when I leave the house and need to take a computer... the mini-note is what I grab. Taking the old Compaq notebook seems tantamount to packing up my desktop for travel compared to the mini-note. Taking the Asus feels a bit like trying to make do with a palmtop. (A bit of hyperbole, there, to make a very real point.)

We all have different requirements. I would encourage you to reconsider current netbooks. But perhaps we have different requirements. I'm so weird in so many ways that I have to be careful about my recommendations. ;-)

I read the 32 vs 64 bit article and you defended your position as one of fact without prejudice to Apple.

Now you publish an article that says a market that Apple publicly eschews is growing. I believe you are biased against Apple. Apple isn't playing so they're not the news.

The REAL news is there, but buried. I believe the news is when you say: An important growth propellant for netbooks are the telecom providers.

So people aren't buying them because they are enamored by the technology, they are buying them because they've surfed the web on their phones and they've found it lacking. So the Telecom's latch onto the netbook as a way to sell their data plan. The customer gets a chance to buy it over time rather than pay up front.

That's not to say the folks don't find netbooks worthy without being tied to a wireless telecom. But these people are not Apple customers. Apple isn't really interested in customers who are willing to rsync via ssh.

So why not comment on the growth of netbooks, analyze why that is and then we can all discuss the cool things you can do with these compact devices and leave Apple out of it.

You're not jealous are you? I mean there are people here that say Apple is not smart! Apple is sitting on a pile of cash that they have earned by making and keeping to their markets. You're smart enough not to give them any cash, so yes, you're smart too. But don't say Apple isn't because they don't have your cash, they have a ton of other folk's cash so your cash doesn't mean much to them. (They like to make it more that a couple of hundred at a time when they sell a computer.)

So yes, BMW doesn't have the market share that Ford does, and yes, they both make highly advanced products that can get you from here to there in efficient comfort. So why doesn't BMW have a car to sell you? They're just not that into you...

So why not comment on the growth of netbooks, analyze why that is and then we can all discuss the cool things you can do with these compact devices and leave Apple out of it.

Because this forum is all about discussing OS news, and Apple is a prominent purveyor of operating systems. If there are market conditions which favor one vendor or hurt another, there are plenty people on this forum who want to know. So, really, there's no need to be so hypersensitive. The data is the data.