Uh oh: Biden might have power to kill GOP’s tactics against reconciliation

posted at 5:27 pm on March 1, 2010 by Allahpundit

It’s a testament to how arcane a procedure reconciliation is that we haven’t heard this before. Remember, if Obama and Reid go nuclear in the Senate, that’s not the end of the story: The GOP can still try to block the progress of the bill, either by challenging the individual provisions on parliamentary grounds — in theory, only parts that are related to the budget can be passed via reconciliation — or by proposing an endless numbers of amendments to stop the process in its tracks. Keith Hennessey wrote about the latter strategy this morning:

Senate floor debate on a reconciliation bill is limited to 20 hours. There is no limit on amendments that can be offered. This means that, after two full days of debate and amendments, twenty hours will have expired. Any amendments which are queued up (or are then offered) are then voted on, in sequence, with no debate (in theory)…

A well-disciplined Senate majority party can defeat every amendment with a simple majority by simply voting to table (kill) each amendment. This has a slightly different procedural and political feel than defeating the amendment but the same practical effect. Still, the minority can often use the vote-a-rama to force members of the majority party to take politically tough votes. I would expect vulnerable Senate Democrats to be looking to vote with Republicans on some of these votes to avoid political risks for their campaign. This should not be too big of a challenge for Leader Reid, since he needs to hold only 50 of 59 for each tabling vote. He can allow vulnerable individual Democrats to take a walk on particularly difficult amendments.

The novel twist this time would be the possibility of a Senate Republican filibuster by amendment during the vote-a-rama. Even a single Republican could, in theory, offer an infinite sequence of amendments to each word of the bill, never allowing Leader Reid to get to final passage.

The burning question: Is there some way Reid can shut them down? According to Norman Ornstein of AEI, yes. They could … ask Joe Biden to do it:

“The vice president can rule that amendments are dilatory,” Norm Ornstein, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and one of the foremost experts on congressional process, told the Huffington Post. “That they are not serious attempts to amend the bill but are designed without substance to obstruct. He can rule them out of order and he can do that on bloc.”

“There are time limits,” Ornstein added. “It is not that they can keep doing it over and over again.”

As Ornstein added, there are potential downsides to the vice president wielding any of these two institutional powers. For starters, it further politicizes a process that is already being criticized as overly political. Moreover, it could spur serious discussion of whether the Obama administration is engaged in an institutional power grab and/or upheaval of Congress.

The veep presides over the Senate so the veep has the final say; even the Senate parliamentarian, the de facto authority on whether any given provision of the bill qualifies as “budgetary” or not, merely advises Biden on his final ruling. If they’re willing to game the process and abuse reconciliation to pass the bill, why wouldn’t Slow Joe be willing to overrule the parliamentarian and let them pass whichever provisions they want? It’s a microcosm of the entire ObamaCare process thus far: The public’s already disgusted with the substance and procedure of what’s going on, so why shouldn’t the Dems let them feel a tiny bit more disgusted in order en route to getting this thing passed? It’s kamikaze time, remember?

Also via HuffPo, here’s 90 seconds of former parliamentarian Robert Dove assuring MSNBC this morning that, yes indeed, Biden is the ultimate referee here. What could go wrong?

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I intended to include a link to the current turmoil in Turkey.
It seems that the current civilian government, thought to be somewhat sympathetic to Islam, appears to be purging military leaders suspected of a more secular viewpoint.

I do not discount anything Obama might do simply because it might appear to be improbable.

And you really do need to stop denying that. The reputation of the far-right is that they are rigid about helping anyone out. It’s a kind of contemporary dog-eat-dog environment taken to the max, quoting Reagan all the way.

And you really do need to stop denying that. The reputation of the far-right is that they are rigid about helping anyone out. It’s a kind of contemporary dog-eat-dog environment taken to the max, quoting Reagan all the way.

Look at the thread about Wi-Fi!

I listen more to moderate GOP. They do understand that healthcare is a HUGE issue, not only on individual families but also on the global competitiveness.

I’d really personally like to see a real compromise, with the best of both.

AnninCA on March 1, 2010 at 6:24 PM

So you buy into and perpetuate the liberal meme that ‘Conservatives are heartless douche-bags’.

And you do in fact support some version of socialized America – because people got problems and the government has to dole out those solutions. Has it ever occurred to you that whatever problems we do have are directly caused by government intervention? You talk like the health insurance and health care industries are some bastion of the free market untouched by government regulation. These industries are some of the most heavily regulated in our country: If government intervention was going to fix things or make them better it would have happened by now.

The Democrats want to put us on a path to unsustainability immediately and you’d prefer a compromise where we get to that point in a decade or so. Wonderful.

And you really do need to stop denying that. The reputation of the far-right is that they are rigid about helping anyone out. It’s a kind of contemporary dog-eat-dog environment taken to the max, quoting Reagan all the way.

Look at the thread about Wi-Fi!

I listen more to moderate GOP. They do understand that healthcare is a HUGE issue, not only on individual families but also on the global competitiveness.

I always get a kick out of the claims that conservatives are heartless. I’ve done tons of charity work and . . . yeah, ALL of the time the ones that are working their butts off are the conservatives and the “supervisors” patting themselves on the back because they are so awesome, liberals.

I always get a kick out of the claims that conservatives are heartless. I’ve done tons of charity work and . . . yeah, ALL of the time the ones that are working their butts off are the conservatives and the “supervisors” patting themselves on the back because they are so awesome, liberals.

Ingenue on March 1, 2010 at 6:38 PM

Which is also why I laughed at the ‘a lady in my district is using her dead sisters dentures!!!eleventy1!!eone1!!11o11′ example put forth by Democrats as to why we need a transformation of American government. I’d bet that there are people in her community who would be glad to help her – if not dentists willing to do the work for free or at a steep discount.

Liberals tend to think that if things are left to individuals and free people that some great holocaust will be visited upon the poor and destitute…and an unsustainable government solution which still doesn’t actually help everyone is preferable. Their policies also have the ‘side-affect’ of dragging down the economy and curtailing freedom.

I’m getting real sick and tired of hearing how Republicans/conservatives don’t help people out. You know what? Every study/poll/and personal experience clearly, factually states otherwise. The only time liberals help “the little guy” out is when they are robbing someone else of their hard earned effort. That’s not helping anyone out, that’s out right theft. Liberals give the least to charity, thats a proven fact! So go whine somewhere else with that BS.

No other group in the world is more charitable than the conservative. Your problem is that people like me are not willing to be your suckers for more than a few scams until we wise up…but when real people need real help, people like me and others on this site are always there to help, ALWAYS. I’m sick and tired of this lie.

They didn’t ask for the specific posts…just the links to where these comments were made. That’s easy enough.

I agree…this needs to be scrapped, and a start over is needed.

However…from your posts, I gather that you’re ok with a government take over. You mentioned on a previous thread today, something about how if we want to pay for it, we can keep the elderly going. I looked for it, but couldn’t find it, but I was taken back by it. Where do you think the cut off age will be with this government take over? 30? 40? 50? Higher? None of us are getting younger, most of us are nearing our elderly years….and this is what we’ll have to look forward to? Doesn’t God decide that? And denying life saving drugs is wrong?

I just can’t get on board with some of your opinions. I read what you say, but have a hard time, from post to post understanding where you REALLY stand.

Forcing money from some, to give to others is theft. Plain, and simple. There is no gray area. Supporting it, is no different, then putting a gun to my head, and demanding it from me, for yourself. In the end, it’s all theft, and you seem to not only be ok with that, you seem to be willing to make the mandates stick.

That is not what this country was founded on. I’ve never asked anyone for anything…and I hope I never have to, but if it were me in that situation, I’d accept my situation, or go out, and try to make it better. I won’t demand my government step in, and manditorally steal from others, because I don’t want to have to do if for myself.

I’m getting real sick and tired of hearing how Republicans/conservatives don’t help people out. You know what? Every study/poll/and personal experience clearly, factually states otherwise. The only time liberals help “the little guy” out is when they are robbing someone else of their hard earned effort. That’s not helping anyone out, that’s out right theft. Liberals give the least to charity, thats a proven fact! So go whine somewhere else with that BS.

No other group in the world is more charitable than the conservative. Your problem is that people like me are not willing to be your suckers for more than a few scams until we wise up…but when real people need real help, people like me and others on this site are always there to help, ALWAYS. I’m sick and tired of this lie.

javamartini on March 1, 2010 at 6:46 PM

Oh come on…it doesn’t matter what you do in your personal life. You don’t want the government mandated important decisions in your life and controlling 1/6th the economy and taking vast amounts of money away from you and other Americans which means you hate poor people. /SARC

That’s how much liberals care – they care so much they want to rob you of your freedoms – that’s how important it is to them.

I don’t think I’ll respond to anymore of your threads. As is being said, you seem to want to rile things up, and garner some attention. So I won’t cater to it anymore. I won’t be an enabler for your lack of attention. I raised my kids to know better than that. You should too by now.

I’d really personally like to see a real compromise, with the best of both.

AnninCA on March 1, 2010 at 6:24 PM

You’ve got some nerve. For months you’ve been defending the Dems plan and ignored the fact that the GOP’s last interaction prior to the summit was in April of 2009. Almost a year of the Dems refusing any GOP input and now you call for compromise. Fact of the matter is that the time for compromise is over unless and until the Dems are willing to start anew. In the meantime look up hypocrite in the dictionary because that is what you are.

Again I will say….ObamaCare will pass. Socialism is here. Get used to it.

angryed on March 1, 2010 at 6:37 PM

The first two parts may be true, but there really is no reason to get used to it. If we go socialist just as it’s crashing and burning in Europe and just as we don’t have any “other people’s money” with which to pay for it, then it won’t be here for long.

If they’re willing to game the process and abuse reconciliation to pass the bill, why wouldn’t Slow Joe be willing to overrule the parliamentarian and let them pass whichever provisions they want?

Exactly AP. If they are going to nuke the legislative process with reconciliation then any rule that gets in their way will go down in flames. The post partisan president is going to oversee the most partisan governing process in memory in order to take over 1/6 of the US economy and create a paradigm shift in US politics.

Oh, and if Biden does the ‘paths of glory’ thing in the Senate to push ObamaCare through, does that mean Sarah Palin’s comments about the VP presiding over the Senate were right?

JEM on March 1, 2010 at 6:39 PM

Not only that, but seeing as how the Reid senate got to make up brand new rules about how certain sections required new higher invented majorities to repeal, when the Conservatives win the day, we get to make up just as insipid guidelines for doing away the the Greek tragedy formerly known as ObowMaoCare. Remember folks if the congress doesn’t approve the money, it can’t get spent.

Oh, I see. Proposing scores of frivolous amendments in a deliberate attempt to derail a vote on legislation is just “good strategy”. But if the Democrats can nullify it it’s “gaming the process”.
Sheesh!

Look, there’s going to be a health care bill. Period.
President Obama is not going to “start over” and he’s not going to stand by while Republicans “game the process”.
It’s going to get done. “Start liking it” is your best option.

This is not the time for some hard-ass message about This is not the time for some hard-ass message about how, “You screwed up and lost your job because you’re dumb, so if you’re family suffers, too bad” kind of conservative message.
AnninCA on March 1, 2010 at 5:43 PM
, “You screwed up and lost your job because you’re dumb, so if you’re family suffers, too bad” kind of conservative message.
AnninCA on March 1, 2010 at 5:43 PM

The conservative message here is that misfortune in your life does not in any way entitle you to take anything from me.

Ann, you have been given the benefit of the doubt for far too long. You are dishonest, and you are dumb.

If Democrats try to ram this through with reconciliation and Plugs Biden “acting Parliamentarian”, people will go E’ffing bonkers. It will look like “Immigration Amnesty Reform” times a thousandmillionbillion trillion

Ann thinks Mao was a great person….her words….therefore she has no issues at all with enslaving an entire population to the whims of a totalitarian government….she is a monster, an evil being.

That being said, the trolls on this thread are absolutely right….our dictator in chief will get this passed, whatever rules may exist are irrelevant and always have been….ask yourselves if he’s bothered so far to follow the rules in this process.

“You screwed up and lost your job because you’re dumb, so if you’re family suffers, too bad but big box stores and fast food restaurants are always hiring and it might be appropriate to work wherever you can until you land your ideal job again. Oh, and hopefully you learned a lesson about carrying too much non-mortgage debt in general and how it’s not good for your family.” kind of conservative message.

What I find so fascinating is how the left uses it powers to stop the right and when the right does it the left howls at full pitch.
The media will ONLY cover the lunatic fringe ( the left) and cover for them. It will be interesting how the next election blood bath is cover by the by the media.

This, again, is really old news. Republicans need to call reconcilation by it’s proper name as coined by the people who want to use it now, The Nuclear Option”. If Biden does this the Senate and Congress will never be the same again. We won’t remember what it was like to be in the country of our Founders. If Republicans continue to try to be gentlemen politicians the country will lose more and more power to Drmocrats even when they are in the minority. There will be no more smart gentlemen pols.

You’ve got some nerve. For months you’ve been defending the Dems plan and ignored the fact that the GOP’s last interaction prior to the summit was in April of 2009. Almost a year of the Dems refusing any GOP input and now you call for compromise. Fact of the matter is that the time for compromise is over unless and until the Dems are willing to start anew. In the meantime look up hypocrite in the dictionary because that is what you are.

highhopes on March 1, 2010 at 7:08 PM

–The GOP members of the Senate Finance Committee were working on this throughout the summer. You’re wrong about the April date.

This, again, is really old news. Republicans need to call reconcilation by it’s proper name as coined by the people who want to use it now, The Nuclear Option”. If Biden does this the Senate and Congress will never be the same again. We won’t remember what it was like to be in the country of our Founders. If Republicans continue to try to be gentlemen politicians the country will lose more and more power to Drmocrats even when they are in the minority. There will be no more smart gentlemen pols.

Sultry Beauty on March 2, 2010 at 11:20 AM

–Reconciliation has never been the nuclear option. Suspending/amending the Senate rules to allow for a vote on judges was the nuclear option. Go back and read some recent history. It’s no surprise you’re from California.

Did you see how Happy Chuckie looked? The MSM is not biased. The MSM is the Obama administration.

I am also sick and tired of pundits saying that the communists i.e. democrats are “tone deaf”. They are NOT tone deaf they are doing what their fellow comrades tell them to do! Obama and his ilk reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljz8qxUQAFs.

If Biden starts acting like the VP is the executive officer of the Senate, the Palin’s haters will have to admit she was right about the duties of the position.
The plot thickens.
Soon Obama and the Dems will have to admit Russia is in fact right next to Alaska

There is no charity in your universe. There is nothing like that in your world view because you empower government to take from those who have too much, to give to those who have too little.

And you try to make the rest of us feel guilty because someone somewhere has less.

Skandia Recluse on March 1, 2010 at 6:29 PM

And she has the immorality to force the obligation of her “charity” on future generations. I love these nitwits that have no idea how reality works and they try to dress up their stupidity under the guise of “caring” yet they don’t give a hoot about the financial condition that they are leaving to the next generation. Yeah, they’re the moral ones….