Originally posted by Chovy
the more I read about this the more it seems to be true. I feel so foolish that I used to think the government worked for us.

Hmmm you elected these "terrorists", does that make you responsible for their actions and therefore every person who voted for them a
"terrorist"....

The generalisation can go as far as you want.

But I think we should stick with terrorist organisations as the method to determine terrorists. Those who commit crimes under organisations that are
not terrorist organisations are just criminals etc. For example, corrupt police, soldiers gone overkill.

If an organisation such as Al Qaeda openly supports terrorism then they are a terrorist organisation.

The US govt. does not openly support cops tazing old people etc.

I also agree with an earlier assertion that not all Arabs are terrorists much in the same way not all cops are terrorists. If we associate people so
loosely it will only lead to harmful and damaging effects.

In fact loose association is what adds to the cycle of violence in the world, for example, a lot of arabs hate jews because they are a jew. Or
vice-versa.

So you can see that the loose association view is what helps expand fundamentalism, extremism and therefore expands terrorist related activities. So
just by loosely-labelling somebody you can in essence be creating a problem from nowhere that otherwise would not exist, or adding to the original
problem that you otherwise noticed!

Although loosely associating somebody is one way to start riots, wars and civil wars, especially amongst the naive who accept somebody's word.
Unfortunately many people fit into that category. Was it Celente who said 1/3 of the population is needed to start riots successfully for a
revolution? Well.... maybe 1/3 of the populuation are naive enough to believe in loose association of government run or sponsored departments!

So the goal of this is to demonize the Police and our Armed Forces now?

Sorry but you can't sell me a bill of goods like this, especially since I know a few police offices and have known many of our soldiers. I especially
know it is not true of myself, as I was a soldier for over 9.5 years.

Not to be too critical but two of your images, are not even of American Police. The one with the MBT in a time of war is not even germane to the
topic. Rodney King's photo is questionable from the perspective that everyone agrees that it was racially motivated.

Then if I had a dollar for every time Kent State is brought up, I'd have enough cash for many nights out with my wife. Kent State, was a situation
where the National Guard was brought in, and the didn't have the proper training to do their jobs. I also know from having to sit through such
training, that to fire with out a 'legitimate threat'; which is to say guns being brandished or fired, shooting anyone will put your keister in
jail.

So from just looking at the context of the images and the message of 'distrust and fear' our police and armed forces; I am left with no choice but
to say this is fear mongering.

Ninety-eight percent (or more) of our police and armed forces service members are decent upstanding people. Don't make the presumption that due to a
few bad apples all of them are nothing more than 'SS Troops' or some other nonsense.

The number one way to avoid trouble with the police or military is to not -start- trouble with them. But if you do start trouble, know that they
likely will finish it; as they are better trained and better coordinated.

Lastly, a law abiding citizen has nothing to fear from either group.
M.

Yes, there's quite a lot of psychology behind it. I will add this to my thread actually thanks. Uniformity is used to 'dehumanise' people because
it makes them act as one. Aside from the actual use (protection from gases, biological warfare, thrown object, fire) there is also the psychological
warfare there, when you look intimidating people are less likely to assault you.

I do not know how police in the US works (I am not from there) so your situation will be different from mine. But I will tell you it is not like that
everywhere. Maybe this is why people always demonise police on this site. It sickens me. They demonise the army and police non-stop... as if the
majority of people are evil and only want to do harm. I have never met an officer like that.

Originally posted by Moshpet
Sorry but you can't sell me a bill of goods like this

Sure a law-abiding person has something to fear from both groups. Are you kidding? Besides the obvious cases of collateral damage, involving
civilians and children in war, (I should post some pics of Iraqi children with no arms here but I won't) I am "law-abiding" and I've had my face
smashed into a brick wall and been arrested for merely calmly telling a cop that his obscenity (he called my sister a bad word) was uncalled for and
illegal. I have NEVER had a cop help me in any way. NEVER. I fear anyone with a gun. Because they have a gun. Duh.

This is an international board and an international problem.
The goal is not to demonize anyone but to spur debate and seek alternate viewpoints, and they have come.
I was active duty as were my three brothers and I work with cops every day. Although i'm looking into a matter with one now, they have all been
professional and compassionate. In my world, 80% of the cops have not been fired for failing to uphold their oaths. 20% have. The overwhelming
majority of cops are great people. The other percentage, however small can be a nightmare for anyone. Common perception is that cops take care of
their own. unfotunately, good cops get drug down by loyalty to their brothers. tell me it doesn't happen.
It is not my desire to sell anything to anyone. An observation was made and supporting words were added. Generalizations and personal attacks are not
purposely sought or accepted.
When any group of people has absolute power over another, abuses will happen. We just haven't evolved enough. Torture, abuse of power,
exploitation...things that happen every day. It has to stop. I know there are good cops, but if they turn a blind eye to corruption or abuse, they are
complicit.
The original statement summarized:
When ANY group of people use fear of pain or death to achieve their desired result with others, they are terrorists.
If this offends you, i'm sorry. i'm sure your cop friends are great. I hope they stay that way. Mine are good too, but perhaps you can explain the
five new cases of crooked cops every day, or the pictures of our troops torturing prisoners. Who are the terrorists then?
I know its not black and white and insight is appreciated.

The 2nd world war didn't stop Nazism - it just put it into a nice suit.

Arrests in UK when Chinese Premier came over were done under the Anti-Terrorism bill...anyone carrying a Free Tibet placard or waving a Tibetan flag
were liable to arrest...of course, subsequently they were released when it was found the AT bill had been used incorrectly.
The same way photographers are being hassled now for using SLR cameras in public places...as if a terrorist would set up a tripod to take pictures.

I for one don't know you, I don't know a lot of other cops and government officials but if you chose to do as they do and not what is right then it
is a terrorist act. Don't feel attacked as this is a discusion and your posting was so defensive right off the bat that I had to make a comment.

The point of the OP was that not everybody is a terrorist so why are most of us being treated like such instead of those who deserve to be?

It is unlikely many cops chose the profession with any ill intent. Even the ones who joined to fulfill their need to feel powerful believed on the
surface that they wanted to serve the community. Then there are the cops who thought it would be cool and exciting, shooting bad guys and getting in
high speed pursuits and such. Then there are the cops who are cops because they needed a career fast. All these cops are doing there job, enforcing
the laws of the community. It isn't their job to make criminal judgments; however, their position in society gives them some special abilities to
influence how justice is served.

I think the system does corrupt them. I am sure most go into it with good intentions, but how long can those good intentions last?

I started criminal justice courses at the local comunity college. I could not continue because of the junk that was being fed into my mind. What
scared me was all the impressionable youth taking the course who didn't know any better, eager to lap up all the lies in the text book. It really
opened my eyes to why our police force is so screwed up.

I'm a security guard. (Yes. A 'mall cop' if you will). But I don't guard any shopping-malls. Mostly strip clubs, bars, and very very very ghetto
apartment complexes are where I work. And majority of the people I work with are cops, ex-cops, or have extensive military background. The CEO of the
company I work for is hardcore ex-military.

I have a partner who is serving in the military. (Iraq-veteran). One night I was alone with him in a company patrol-vehicle at an apartment complex on
my first day. And in conversation my partner (friggin' country-boy) is like: "Yeah..you know...I'm not going to lie to you, brother. I AM racist. I
don't like black people." I look at him and think "What's wrong with this picture??" And then I say; "You can't be serious. That put
together with the line of work you and I are in is a recipe for outright disaster."

And if this doesn't give you the creeps? I don't know what will. (Though I'm sure you wouldn't find it all too surprising.)

Normally the police department MUST have a search warrant in order to enter a residence. But if you are a security officer who is contracted to an
apartment complex in Texas? You may enter an apartment w/o a warrant. Not exactly kick in the door the moment you are in front of it.

But if someone answers and decides to tell you to "get screwed!" and proceeds to slam the door in your face? The apartment management allows you to
push your way through.

(Believe me it has happened to me before. I went into one apartment with my supervisor and another officer. I asked him "Boss--are you sure this is
legal and not against the fourth amendment of the constitution?" He's like "Don't worry about that--we're well insured.")

And then a month and a half ago at these same apartments I drew my gun on a guy who afterward ended up running after we apprehended his friend. (True:
they were guilty after all. We found a heck of a lot of coc aine plus marijuana in their car.) I ran after him but he got away by hopping the
fence. Once they're off property I can't chase them any farther.

But then I was talking with my (racist) partner. He's like..
"Dude... wtf?!"
"Yeah I know--I should have caught him..whatever."
And then he says..
"No dude. You did good. You shoulda just shot his ass anyway!
"...excuse me?!"
"F*** that n***er. I would have f***ing shot him myself."

So...do we really live in a 'fascist police state'? Are cops and government goons the actual terrorists? You decide.

I will just reply to both of you at the same time in a generic post. NOT all content, however, is directed to both of you. I am sure you two can
figure that out on your own. Here goes.

I am not a terrorist, nor am I offended that you, a person of whom I have never met and have zero regard for on a personal level, labeled me as one.
Going by your logic, joechip, since I am not an authoritarian jerk, I must be a naive fool with a Samaritan complex. Call it what you would like, but
I am choosing to become a Police Officer because I believe in what the badge stands for; furthermore, my sole purpose in life is to protect, whether
it be a person I love or a complete stranger in need. Serve and Protect, I will live that motto with pride.

As stated countless times, and as common sense will agree, not all Cops are bad, nor is all persons in any one group bad. It is on an individual
level, and not a group thing. Each person decides for themselves if they want to do the right thing or not, so don't blame the entire flock for a few
rogue birds.

And this one is specifically for joechip:

There is only one part in your post that offends me, and irritates me to no end, and it is not the terrorist part. It is this:

you'll kick my teeth in when I exercise my right to nonviolent protest later. Or you'll search my car with no warrant or reason. Or you'll
shoot my black friend because he reached in his pocket for a cell phone.

You think you know me because I willingly and whole-heartedly choose to dedicate my life to a cause in which you despise; you think you have me
figured out because your mind is so set on a few instances of police corruption that you cannot see any other side of the story. Let me tell you
something, and I promise to keep it civilized. You do not know jack s*** about ME or what I believe; you do not know what I am capable of, nor do you
know how much I care about people I don't even know, and I will use that to my advantage WHEN I join the force.

Do not sit in your computer chair and pretend to know who I am and what I will become, because frankly, you don't know a thing.

Originally posted by Locutis
Those cops that went into the towers to rescue people were also terrorists I suppose, those who show up to help someone who is being robbed, those
dying for not near the amount of money that celebrities and athletes make, all must be terrorist. I would like to see this country in a lawless world.
Somebody has had one to many speeding tickets. Who will you call when someone is breaking down your door to do you harm? Don't call the police.

Great point Locutis, I completely agree with you.

The OP is manifesting his testicles in an anonymous bashing of public servants.

I too agree that it is a great point. Also remember that both sides can be considered terrorist's. We could label this government as being a
Terrorist regime and the Troops as terrorist's, but OP you may be one in their eyes. Really it just comes down to semantics of terrorist and where
your idea's lie based on the groups you affiliate yourself with. I personally believe the government is to become terrorist like. But that does not
mean the people who work for them share the same idea's. Just like all the ATS board members don't share the same ideas, but we all work towards
disclosure for whatever our heart's desire's.

But I do hate to see bashing of public servants. I guess I am a terrorist for being a Marine. Don't worry, if we get invaded I will still do my damn
best to protect you. I am sure some of the police will too. If your places catches fire, some more of those hose wielding terrorist's will come save
your house, along with those terrorist's fire rescue medical services. Oh and don't forget the next time you need help in waters, those crazy
terrorist Coast Guard will risk their terrorist lives to save you. But wait, does that really make us terrorist?s No, it does not. Is every group
affiliated with terrorism of the Middle Eastern kind terrorist's? Not at all. I may not like them, but they are not a terrorist.

But I guess we were founded on terrorism. By your standards, George Washington is right up there with Bin Laden. But I guess England were all
terrorist's too! Good thing they were trying to kill each other huh? Less terrorism for the rest of us. I sure am glad those great bankers, who
aren't working for the government directly have been so gracious to this country. Those heroin dealers. God Bless em! Thanks for buying the heroin
guys. We get all we need from forced labor, erm I mean farmers in Afghanistan. Oh you guys are so awesome for getting your great product around those
evil terrorist border patrol... Semantics.

Was this a silly post? I believe so, but the point needs to go out. You may be angry with some, but don't call me a terrorist.

I will add though I am not bashing all drugs as some should be legal. '___'! lol Another place for that I guess.

I was flipping the channels the other night and stopped because I saw this house being destroyed by animal like terrorist thugs working as cops. It
was that DEA cop series where a bunch of thuggish looking greasy cops go around and let dope dealers go that work for them and put people in jail who
refuse to work for them.

The cops were smashing lights and dumping dirt on the floor and and just basically ransacking the guys house high fiving each other under the illusion
that they are good guys.

Note: they're so corrupt they count the root ball of the plant as if it had the same value of the flower in order to further lie about the amount of
product they acquired in order to falsify their numbers for the purpose of furthering their careers & boosting their budgets while at the same time
give a false number to the justice system in order to put the perpetrator away longer.

Does anyone think a dealer would get away with selling a root ball of the product as product? Would the produce manager at the grocery store get away
making you weigh the entire tomato plant root ball and all as if it was all tomato? Could a peanut farmer sell the entire plant as peanuts? Would a
fisherman get away with selling the whole fish guts and all for the same price as caviar? Nope, he couldn't stay in business if he lied like that,
but cops & courts train their people to lie like that all the time.

Truth and justice? Who's truth?

That's justice - users are dealers in order to terrorize them into cooperating and dealers who don't cooperate are mega terrorist.

Terrorist indeed. The cops have destroyed the farmers method of putting food on the table and they have destroyed the property owners method of
putting food on the table not to mention caused him extra money cleaning up the mess they left.

You think cops are there to protect your personal property? - Think again. Half our population uses drugs and if you're a landlord it's the cops
that do the damage to your property - not the dopers. So, the cops expect you to be the cop of your property - otherwise they destroy your property's
by kicking in doors unnecessarily, breaking windows, poking holes in walls, tearing apart hvac systems, electrical outlets etc. It doesn't matter if
you are willing to provide them with keys - they don't care about your property or the damage they cause. They blame you for the damage they cause as
if your supposed to run everybody's life that you rent to.

Not only that - they try to rob you of your property from you by trying to show that you had knowledge of dopers on your premises. You have to fight
them or the cops rob you of your life long investment.

Robbers can only take your cash - cops want everything you own and they'll use the court system to bleed you of it.

As I watched that DEA show I just thought if one turned off the sound and replaced the offending god designed plants with tomato plants I'm sure the
same thugs would collect the same pay to destroy somebody's house if the powers that be said you can't grow your own tomato plants and they still
would be high fiving each other acting righteous and whatnot - acting like the good guys that they are truly not.

Yes, the weak among us will always need some type of police, so we have them in order to protect our kids and grandparents while we are out working
etc. The problem is criminal justice system has been corrupted by money and they use the laws to expand themselves and their budgets and power at the
expense of those they're supposed to protect - but instead we are their victims as there will never be enough money to satisfy them unless they label
enough of our natural behaviors as criminal. So, now we have not only terrorist cops collecting revenue for parking too long, not going the perfect
speed and electronic terrorist corporations that put up cameras to collect more revenue if you cross the stop line a second late at an intersection.
Yeah - I hate people who run red lights - but I hate it more when they shorten the yellow light sequence in order to catch more people to collect more
revenue.

Don't call the cops - most the time they will cause more damage than the problem you have to deal with - believe me. They are only there to bring as
many of you into the revenue stream as they can and they will terrorize you while doing it.

Cops are great guys - unless you have to deal with them when they're working. If your not working with them hide your wallet and have your papers in
order.

Those cops that went into the towers to rescue people were also terrorists I suppose,

You suppose right....so they actually had to do their job for once...darn! Cops hate that part of their job...

those who show up to help someone who is being robbed, those dying for not near the amount of money that celebrities and athletes make, all must be
terrorist.

"A" cop might be cool. but the police would seem to be an organization of thugs, goons, or possibly terrorists based on the OP's case...as far as
rescuing people from robbers, well what are the odds that a cop witnesses a robbery in progress....they just show up to fill out a report after the
fact. detectives and forensics do all the real work. And who cares if they don't make 16 million a year like some baseball star? what is your
point? Millions of people aren't paying to go see them? Why would they? cops are terrorists......

I would like to see this country in a lawless world.

ditto. a functioning lawless society would be near the apogee of a type 0 civilization.

Somebody has had one to many speeding tickets.

If you're referring to me, I've had 1....ever. The one I spoke of in my OP. I have no problem with speeding tickets, just the unjust/pointless
ones. BTW it's no longer on my record as I used a deferral, but I only get 1 every 7 years...should I really have to waste it on my case. The cop
was blatantly tryin to make quota....I have to much integrity and class to work a job like that, cops dont. Thats the dif.

Who will you call when someone is breaking down your door to do you harm? Don't call the police.

Yeah i won't....I'll be busy grabbing a weapon, or jumping off the balcony. Calling the police would be a are waste of time if someone was in the
process of beating down my door. You know, I've never needed police help, but the other night I heard a few gunshots, or what I think were gun shots
outside at like 2 or 3 am, so I called 911 for the first time ever. They didn't even care. Since I couldn't tell her anything more then I hear
possible gunshots outside, they didn't even bother to run a car past my apartment. yeah thanks cops, just keep handing out the 40 dollar jaywalking
tickets, for crossing in a crosswalk with a green light, and don't worry about the gunshots!! WTF? Only primitive people support laws or law
enforcement, when are you cretins gonna get on liquids level.

It all comes down to the perspective of the beholder. Somebody I consider a freedom fighter might be somebody you consider a terrorist and vice
versa.

It's unfortunate you lump "Cops" with "Government Goons" because they are not the same. Police officers are public servants who are employed by
taxpayers to enforce the law and keep the peace (or that was the original idea at least).

Personally, I feel people who go to public areas and blow themselves up in an effort to kill as many civilians as possible are terrorists and not
freedom fighters. They strive to cause chaos and instability and have no regard for the welfare of the general population.

There have been lots of threads lately emphasising mistakes and unlawful acts done by law enforcement officers over the last year. I would have to
agree there is a potent effort to make Policemen (in the West) look corrupt and immoral. It's funny because these people feel it is fine to use
Anti-West propaganda to demonise the West, but they cry the loudest when people from the West attempt to do the same.

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