Note: The presentations and GREAT BIG open debate end at 5:00PM but delegates can enjoy networking and drinks
courtesy of Aon Hewitt until 7:00PM

What is the purpose of the event?

In general terms we are going to be looking at how harnessing
the transformational power of transparency will improve the workings of the pensions and investments markets; with particular focus on what the impact of MiFID II is going to be in the short, medium
and long-term.

We will also be considering what part a lack of transparency of
risks played in causing the Global Financial Crisis; and whether enough has been done to mitigate the risk of another GFC.

But first, please consider this question:

Wouldn't it be great for everybody if the financial services industry was better
trusted?

Wouldn't that lead to, for example, citizens around the world saving and investing more; and
making much better provision for their financial security in retirement?

We think it would.

Does it surprise you to know that the banking and financial services sector isn't highly
trusted? - research routinely shows that people tend not to trust banking and financial services, particularly since the Global Financial Crisis which has made things much
worse.

Doesn't it therefore make sense for the entire sector to work collaboratively to fix 'the
trust deficit'?

We think so.

The Transparency Task Force believe that it is in the interest of every financial services
organisation and every financial services professional to work at proactively protecting our sector’s reputation so that we can start to regain the trust that has been
lost.

We recognise that the pensions and investments industry is profoundly important to the world
economy and society as a whole. We also know that these are sectors that have been hit hard by the distrust in the market – for example, in the UK we are experiencing the lowest level of savings
since 1963, and that’s as big a problem for heads of distribution in pensions and investment as it is for policymakers.

Distrust costs financial services a fortune in lost revenues so there’s a very real
bottom-line benefit to getting this right.

So it doesn’t really matter whether your primary motivation for wanting to improve reputation
and trustworthiness is the chance for greater commercial gain, or because you have a very strong sense of social justice; it adds up to the same thing – do what you can, with other like-minded people
to help fix what’s wrong - and that starts with having a forum that enables and encourages discussion and debate on these issues in a constructive, solution-orientated way; and that's what this
meeting is all about.

Of course, we cannot make the public trust us. We need to earn back the trust that has been
lost; and to do that we need to behave in a consistently trustworthy way.

Whilst transparency isn’t a ‘magic wand’ it is crystal clear that greater transparency will
help enormously, because transparency engenders trustworthiness.

Our “Time for Transparency - Pensions and Investments” symposium is a thought-leadership event
designed to galvanise support for the idea that the financial services sector can do more to regain trustworthiness through the transformational power of transparency, for the benefit of all parties
including commercial entities keen to drive profitable revenue growth.

We see it all very simply – there is no way that the market can perform to its true potential
without being trusted; and there is no way that trust can be engendered without transparency.

With greater transparency we will create a fairer and more efficient market in which the
organisations that should flourish and take market share get the chance to do so - unhindered by the fog, mist, shadows and opacity that act as a brake on market
development.

Furthermore, we need to consider the fact that MIFID II is now 'just around the corner'.
Because MiFID II sets new rules for the structure of markets and the trading of financial instruments; and because it prescribes conduct of business standards for the provision of investment products
and services, we can hope and expect that MIFID II is going to deliver significant positive change to the levels of transparency in the workings of the European securities
markets.

A central theme of the MiFID II reforms is increased transparency. Whilst MiFID I focused on
opening up markets to greater competition, MiFID II seeks to shine greater light on business practices, and bring more trading activities on to transparent organised trading
venues.

In doing so, MiFID II seeks to directly address some of the shortcomings revealed by the
financial crisis, such as opacity in derivatives and other over-the-counter markets.

It is crystal clear that regulatory forces across Europe are harnessing the
transformational power of transparency to improve the way the sector works.

Greater transparency can and will improve things for all right-minded market participants,
agents and observers, including:

Regulators

Policymakers

Government Officials

Financial Planners

Investment Consultants

Fiduciaries

Asset Managers

Risk Managers

Fiduciary Managers

Trustees

Pension Planners

Compliance Officers

Bankers

Brokers

Pension Scheme Managers

Governance Consultants

Custodians and so on; in fact, anybody that truly deserves to call themselves a 'financial
services professional’ has good reason to attend this meeting.

One way or another, don't miss it, or at the very least make sure your organisation is
represented.

Please read on for further details:

What is the particular focus?

The event will look at a broad range of transparency-related
themes but it will have a particular focus on the European pensions and investments market.

We will be considering the far-reaching consequences of not only MiFID II but also the
Financial Conduct Authority's Market Study in the UK and other regulatory and market developments across Europe.

Also, has enough been done to provide adequate transparency in the financial ecosystems around the world to prevent another Global Financial
Crisis?

...and of course we will be contemplating what may, or may not happen as a consequence of
Brexit.

What will the format be?

We will be hearing from a first class line-up of speakers (see
below) who will be looking at the issues from a range of perspectives - regulatory, market participant, and campaigner.

There will also be extensive opportunities for questions and discussion, particularly during
our "GREAT BIG open debate" which will be a helpful opportunity for all attendees to reflect on and discuss the key themes covered by the speakers; and to also focus on the likely impact of
MIFID II.

The Symposium is therefore going to be a balanced blend of thought leadership delivered
through the presentations of our speakers; and a valuable forum to discuss the ever-changing market dynamic being affected by regulatory inputs, particularly MiFID
II.

This means all delegates will have good opportunity to share their views, insights and
experiences as well as listen to those of others.

Please note that after the main event finishes at 5:00PM there will be further networking and
drinks until 7:00PM courtesy of Aon Hewitt.

What sort of topics will be covered?

Our speakers and the GREAT BIG open debate will be covering a wide range
of thought-provoking topics such as:

- MiFID II; what will be the likely consequences?

- MiFID II; what will it all mean in practical terms?

- MiFID II; what is still left to be done? - Will there be a MIFID III?

- How might BREXIT change things?

- The Trust Deficit and why it must be treated as a top priority

- Transparency as a powerful driver for transformational change

- The part that opacity played in the Global Financial Crisis

- Should more be done to mitigate the risks of another GFC?

- The commercial value of values

- The significance of the Information Matrix

- What else can the Regulators do to improve competition?

- Does Financial Services need a 'Cultural Transfusion'?

- Why regulation alone cannot be the answer

- The damage caused by asymmetries of information

- Why transparency, in and of itself, is a condition necessary, but not sufficient.

- Why 'parading the problem' works

​ - The correlation between transparency, truthfulness and trustworthiness

- The enormous challenge ahead for retirement planning right around the world; and what steps could be taken to alleviate it.

- Why the world needs a Global Transparency Index and what's being done to create one

- Why opacity is the necessary condition for a financial crisis to occur; and what's being done to reduce the chance of another one

- Why it is so crucial that greater transparency is brought into matters relating to ESG

What's the programme?

9:00AM Registration, refreshments and networking

9:30AM

Andy Agathangelou,

Founding Chair,

Transparency Task Force

Andy will be Chairing the Symposium. His overall objective is to galvanise support for the
idea that greater transparency can drive positive, transformational change for the benefit of all.

Andy formed the Transparency Task Force following a meeting he led at Senate House, University of London on 6th May 2015. The
meeting was the about the trust deficit that is impacting financial services and how harnessing the transformational power of transparency can drive the change that is needed.

That meeting set off a chain of events that led directly to the creation of our collaborative, campaigning community which is built
on the idea that 'Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant'.

Since 6th May 2015 he has recruited, organised and mobilised over 250 volunteers around the world into 12
Teams:

Our 12 Teams are the 'engine room' of the Transparency Task Force's work. Each Team is focused on a particular set of
opacity-related challenges whereby subject-matter experts work together on a completely voluntary basis to develop and implement strategies to overcome those challenges.

Andy is also:

Founding Chair, the Technology Task Force

Chair, the Interoperability Steering Group

Governor, Pensions Policy Institute

Fellow, the RSA

Chair, Pensions BIB,

Member, Investment Association Advisory Board on Cost Disclosure

Former Founding Chair, Friends of Auto Enrolment

Former Founding Chair, Friends of the Association of Member Nominated Trustees

Welcome to the event, from Aon Hewitt

9:45AM

Pascal Hogenboom
CEO, Netherland

Pascal is CEO of Aon Hewitt and also Member of the Board of Aon Nederland BV.

He is also a Board Member at United Pensions. He has been at Aon Hewitt for 9 years and prior to that he was Manager at the VVA Groep. Pascal was also a platoon leader in the Royal Dutch Army with
the Luchtmobiele Brigade (Airborne Brigade).

As a result of a review performed by the Dutch Authority for Financial Markets in 2011, it appeared that Pension Funds were not disclosing all their costs.
Costs do have a significant influence on retirement outcomes and costs between similar sized funds varied widely. Boards of trustees are responsible for the costs and therefore should receive all
relevant information and be able to act upon the information.

As a reaction to the 2011 review the Federation of the Dutch Pension Funds (an umbrella organization) published three booklets describing how to calculate costs and
recommended which key figures to disclose.

Part one (published November 2011) contains recommendations on administrative costs and describes the pension administration costs and the asset management
costs.

Part two (published in March 2012) describes in detail the cost drivers and cost categories of costs of asset managers. In 2013 a third version was published with
several updates.

The Federation decided to include transaction costs. By publishing the two booklets, the Federation avoided formal legislation. In fact, the Dutch Central Bank
adopted the cost definitions as described by the Federation.

Due to possible discounts of future pensions within the Dutch (best practice ?) system, incidents in asset management, the reputation of Dutch Pension funds was
lacking. Since April 2012 a lot of knowledge sessions have been given to Board Members of Pension Funds, consultancy firms but also the Dutch press in order to avoid wrong articles and messages to
the Dutch public.

It is very difficult to compare costs between Pension Funds because of differences in asset allocation and implementation style. Cost of asset management is complex
and should be disclosed in the right context.

What are the challenges in disclosing the costs ? Supervisors such as the Dutch Central Bank, auditors, Dutch Federation of Asset Managers all agreed upon the content
of the booklets. The Dutch Central Bank used the content as a guidance for their reporting framework for pension funds and it is still the basis for cost transparency.

Eric Veldpaus (1963) has been at the epicentre of cost transparency throughout his career. Before his current position at IBI he was strategist at APG where his focus was on all aspects of cost
and cost transparency including relations with auditors and the Dutch Central Bank. Prior to APG, he held senior positions at ABP, Robeco and PWC. Eric is author of several prominent publications on
cost transparency, including the ‘Recommendations on Administrative Costs’ (Aanbevelingen uitvoeringskosten)’ published by the Federation of the Dutch Pension Funds; he is also a lecturer at Nyenrode
Business University in the Netherlands. At APG he was member of the Global Advisory Committee of CEM.

In 2013 he founded the independent Institutional Benchmarking Institute together with partners Nyenrode and Novarca to further his ambitions in the field of cost reporting.

Also, Eric is a valued member of the TTF's Team EMEA, Team GTI and Team PISCES.

10:30AM

Frits Meerdink,

Manager, Fund Management,

PGGM Investments

What are we paying … for?

As transparency of costs moves center stage, pension funds, asset managers and service providers have made extra efforts to adhere to transparency requirements,
whether they are mandatory or self-imposed.

Which challenges have we faced and what is to be learned from the drive for more transparency?

How can we use the improved insights to better understand what we are paying for?

Frits will zoom in on the implementation challenges for asset managers and pension funds. He will also focus on special areas as transaction costs and
alternatives.

Frits started his career at EY as an auditor in the fields of Asset Management, Insurance and Pensions. In 2009 he joined the PGGM Accounting, Reporting and Control department and served
both as manager Accounting and as manager Control. In these roles he held responsibility for external reporting and regulatory reporting for Pension Fund clients and PGGM Investment Funds.

He has contributed in setting up industry wide standards on cost reporting for Dutch Pension Funds. Currently he is manager in the Product & Fund Management department, with a focus on
pricing of Asset Management products and supporting the Investment Management Board on PGGM Investment Funds matters.

Frits is a member of the Federation of the Dutch Pension funds Committee on Accounting and Administrative Costs.

11:00AM Refreshments and networking

11:30AM

Tomas Wijffels,

Senior Policy Advisor,

Pensioen Federatie.

The Dutch pension funds have good experience with transparancy and self regulation. Under threat of new legislation, the pension funds wrote their Recommendations
Administrative costs to become more transparent about cost levels.

This was six years ago. Nowadays, people and politics in the Netherlands have new thoughts regarding investment
strategy of pension funds. We see a tendency to expect pension funds to take ESG criteria into account. Carbon footprint becomes an issue and we would like to include labor conditions when selecting
new investment opportunities.

Transparancy, standadisation and clear definitions are tools to change the behavior of pension fund trustees. Pension funds carry out a legal task in ensuring
pensioners a reasonable retirement income. Pension fund members have ideas on how the assets are invested. Transparancy & standadisation might help the sector to adapt more and more to the wishes
of the members.

Tomas Wijffels MSc. (1971) has worked as policy advisor for seven years at the Federation of the Dutch Pension funds. Main topics of interest are the recommendations on administrative costs and
the current discussion about the future of second pillar pensions in the Netherlands.

Tomas is board member of the Dutch pension tracking service, www.mijnpensioenoverzicht. This tracking service for 1st and 2nd pillar pensions is
built and maintained by a foundation of which all Dutch pension funds and insurance companies contribute to.

Before working for the Federation, Tomas was board member of the company pension fund of TNO, the Dutch Institute for Applied Sciences, where he worked as a consultant in the field of
cultural heritage.

Also, Tomas is a valued member of TTF's Team EMEA.

12:00 Noon

Peter Kolthof,

Partner and Head of the Netherlands,

Avida International

Peter will explore whether institutional investors get and understand what they are paying for.

On what areas do investors need transparency and how much of it, in order to make effective decisions in the context of their mandate – delivering a decent and
sustainable pension for their scheme’s participants?

Peter Kolthof has worked in the pension industry for most of his career. In two decades he has built extensive knowledge, insight and experience in the areas of asset and risk management,
covering the full breadth of the investment organisation (front, mid, back office, support services, manager selection), processes (from strategy to implementation) and asset categories.

Before joining Avida Peter was at Shell Asset Management Company, where his last role was Head of Equities. In that role he was also involved in the consolidation of Shell Pension Funds’
assets. Peter was then CFO/COO of an investment boutique for a few years. Lately, as a consultant to Pension Funds he has focused on the areas of asset and risk management.

Peter is an econometrician and tax lawyer by training, completed by executive education programs at the Harvard Business School and Nyenrode Business School. Today he is a lecturer at Nyenrode
Business School.

12:30PM

About

The Transparency Trophyis a top-quality transparent star, awarded to a winner at each of our Transparency Symposia.

Winners get to keep their Transparency Trophy.

The star-shape is significant.

People can navigate across seas using the stars so the star
shape has been chosen to symbolise the idea that the winners are helping to navigate the industry towards a more transparent, competitive and enlightened state.

- November 2016:Daniel
Godfrey,former Chief Executive of the Investment Association and now Co-Founder of The People’s
Trust

- December 2016:Ralph
Frank,Co-Head of Defined Contribution, Cardano

- February 2017:Con
Keating,Head of Research, Brighton Rock Group

- May 2017:David
Pitt-Watson,Executive Fellow, London Business School

- July 2017:Mike
Barrett,Consulting Director, the Lang Cat

- September 13th 2017:Steve
Conley,Founder, The Values-Based Adviser

- September 28th 2017;George
Kinder,Founder, The Kinder Institute

- November 15th 2017;Angie
Brooks,Pension Life

Who'll win the Transparency Trophy on 23rd November?

12:45PM Lunch and networking

1:30PM

Robin Finer,

Head of Wholesale and Investments Competition, The Financial Conduct Authority

"The FCA’s Asset Management Market Study, what we found and next steps…”

Robin Finer is the Head of Wholesale & Investments Competition, having joined the FCA in January 2014.

Prior to working at the FCA, Robin was a Director of Economic Analysis at the Competition Commission, where he worked on mergers, market investigations and regulatory inquiries across a wide range
of sectors. He has also worked as a Project Director and economist at the Office of Fair Trading and in the Directorate General for Competition of the European Commission.

Robin is currently leading on the FCA’s Asset Management and Investment Platforms Market Studies.

2:00PM

Aleksandra Maczynska, Executive Director,

Better Finance

Aleksandra Maczynska has recently joined the Better Finance Brussels Team as Executive Director. Aleksandra is from Warsaw, Poland, where she was the Deputy Director of the International Relations
and Communication Department of the Polish consumer and competition watchdog. Her responsibilities included external representation and managing professional networks such as the Consumer Policy
Network (CPN), the International Consumer Protection and Enforcement Network (ICPEN) and the European Competition Network (ECN).

She also has a vast experience in the management of international projects such as the EU funded capacity building projects. As a Fellow of the Robert Bosch Foundation Programme for the Young
Executives from the Public Sector, Aleksandra worked at the Division for World Bank International Monetary Fund, Debt Issues and International Finance Structure at the German Federal Ministry for
Economic Cooperation and Development.

Aleksandra has provided expert input to various EU Council’s Working Parties such as the Working Party on Financial Services and the Working Party on Competitiveness and Growth; as well as the
European Commission’s Advisory Committees. Currently she is a member of the EC Financial Services User Group (FSUG).

2:30PM

Dr. Chris Sier,

Chair,The FCA's Institutional Cost Disclosure Working
Group;

Visiting Professor, Leeds University;

Fintech Envoy, The Northern Powerhouse.

"Defining the Costs of Investing"

Transparency of costs has been a topic that has dominated the headlines in the pension world for some time, but has been, with Fintech, my entire focus for over a
decade. The need to clarify the costs of investing rose to the top of the agenda earlier this year in the FCA's Market Study on Asset Management in the UK and the prescribed creation of the
Institutional Disclosure Working Group, the role of which is to define standards for cost data collection.

I will describe the WHO, the WHY and the HOW of the IDWG, give an update on progress and the indicative timeline and what the work of the IDWG will deliver in the
short medium and long term.

Chris is a highly respected campaigner for the need for greater transparency on costs and charges in pensions and investment and he has built an unrivalled reputation for driving change in the UK
market, campaigning for change for over 10 years.

Chris has been instrumental to the tremendous pro-transparency progress made in the UK's Local Government Pensions Scheme market in recent years and he was absolutely critical to the creation of
the Transparency Task Force; without Chris' input the TTF may not now exist.

It is also to his immense credit that he has now been given the very important position as Chair of the Financial Conduct Authority's Institutional Disclosure Working Group at a crucial time for
the UK's asset management industry which is coming to terms with the seismic shift created by the FCA’s highly critical and equally progressive Asset Management Market Study.

Chris is Visiting Professor at Leeds University and Professor of Practice at Newcastle University Business School, Co-MD of FiNexus, a knowledge-transfer and research organization, and he
advises the UK Government, Regulators and various trade bodies on pension fund Corporate Governance and Cost Transparency.

Chris also advises a range of stakeholders including the UK Government on innovation and fintech. Previously he was Managing Director of KAS Bank UK, an Asset Servicing and Pension
Fund specialist, and Director of the Financial Services Knowledge Transfer Network, a research, innovation and knowledge transfer organisation for financial services, bridging
industry, academia and government.

A popular and highly sought-after speaker in the UK and overseas, Chris’ breadth and depth of knowledge and insight on the topic of costs disclosure must put him at the very apex of subject-matter
expertise.

He has also held various strategy management consulting roles, starting as Associate at AT Kearney, ending as partner in boutique firm specialising in advisory to the Buy-side.
In the dim and distant past he was a police officer in Edinburgh.

3:00PM Refreshments and networking

3:30 PM

The GREAT BIG open debate!

This is perhaps the most important part of the whole
event!

It's where all attendees plus our panelists will have ample opportunity to reflect on the
issues covered by our speakers and to cover related hot topics.

In particular, we will be discussing MiFID II:

- Will it successfully deliver a more transparent and evenly balanced marketplace?

- What will it mean to everyone engaged in the dealing and processing of financial instruments; business and operating
models; systems; and data?

- How is it going to change consumer experience and outcomes?

- Will it drive a shift towards more structured trading and marketplaces as planned?

- How will MiFID II impact the reputation of the market?

- Who’ll be the winners and losers as a result of: lower cost market data; improved best execution; more explicit costs of
trading and investing?

- How will market participants adapt to prescribed conduct of business standards for the provision of investment products and
services?

- Will MiFID II address the shortcomings revealed by the financial crisis, such as opacity in derivatives and other
over-the-counter markets?

- What will it mean to algorithmic and high-frequency trading; will the new era better govern the effects of such activities
on financial markets?

- Similarly, will the attempts to strengthen investor protection standards designed to tackle conflicts of interest in the
provision of financial advice work in practice? If not, why not?

- What’s the latest on ESMA and the European Commission’s development of technical standards to implement the
legislation?

- and how is Brexit going to impact the workings of the financial markets across
Europe?

So, there is no shortage of big issues to deliberate on and discuss!

Confirmed panelists so far:

Marlon
Sahetapy,

Principal
Consultant

Aon
Hewitt

Marlon is responsible for the development and implementation of the delegated investment proposition in the Netherlands.

Marlon has 18 years of experience and a track record in institutional investment, business development, risk management and governance.

He has deep knowledge of the European institutional investment sector working across different markets and various asset classes.

He has worked at Hermes Investment Management, the in-house asset manager of the BT Pension Scheme, the Abraaj Group – in emerging markets private equity, Pensions Infrastructure Platform and
completed numerous consulting assignments with his own firm.

Marlon has been active at Eumedion, the Dutch Institutional Governance and Sustainability Forum, and he has been an adviser to several industry initiatives around private market investment and
sustainability.

Currently he is also a member of Aon Hewitt’s Global Sustainability Group.

Gert J.
Dijkstra

Senior Managing
Director,

APG
Asset Management.

Gert Dijkstra is responsible for, amongst other things, Global Networks and Peers and for investing in the Netherlands.

Formerly he was Chief of Strategy & Communications and member of the Board at APG Asset Management from January 2010 until March 2017.

He joined ABP in 2000 and subsequently APG Asset Management in 2008. At APG Asset Management he held several positions such as Manager of the Business Development, Legal & Tax functions; and
also Program Manager for the implementation of the new multi-client fund structure.

Prior to joining APG Asset Management, he worked as a management consultant at VODW, Amsterdam Consulting Group and TG Corporate Strategy & Finance.

Gert studied Business Management at the University of Groningen and followed several management courses at INSEAD and the Harvard Business School.

Michael Fuß,

Partner and Member of the Management Board,

XTP AG

XTP AG is an independent consultant that combines empirical capital market research and long-standing practical experience in institutional asset management for supporting investors in
safeguarding their interests and ensuring efficient implementation of their investments.

Prior to joining XTP, Michael has spent his career working for Deutsche Bank, with almost 20 years in various functions in the asset management division, his last roles included responsibility for
the institutional business in Germany and the global key account management.

Iwein Borm,

Reaearch & Development,

Head of DTP – Strategy, Transtrend

Iwein Borm is responsible for the strategy of the Diversified Trend Program at Transtrend.

Since joining Transtrend in 2008, he has worked mostly on improving the trading strategies, portfolio construction and expanding the universe of tradable markets.

He combines intricate knowledge and understanding of all layers of the ‘black box’ with an ability to explain the why and how in simple terms and put these in a broader context.

In previous presentations and panel discussions, he has shared his views on a wide range of topics such as risk management, diversification, liquidity, market structure and the shortcomings of
conventional approaches in these areas.

Other speakers and panellists being added

5:00PM End to the 'formal' proceedings, then...

Networking and drinks to follow

Immediately after the Symposium delegates can enjoy further networking; and Aon Hewitt have very kindly agreed to take care of the cost of
drinks.

7:00PM Final close.

Who should be sure to attend?

This event will appeal to a very broad range of people including:

- Pension Scheme Trustees

- Economists

- Asset Managers

- Investment Consultants

- Retail and Institutional Investors

- Industry Observers, Commentators, the Media in general

- Academics and Researchers

- Financial Planners

- Brokers

- Campaign and Civil Society Groups

- NGOs

- Politicians and their research colleagues

- Policymakers

- Consultants

- Advocacy Groups

- Fiduciaries

- Bankers and representatives of Banking organisations

- Risk Management Professionals

- Compliance Professionals

- Legal Professionals

- Pension Professionals

- Fiduciary Managers

- All enlightened and progressive market participants

- Actuaries; and many more....

Be sure to secure your place today

There is limited availability and all places must be booked in advance - please use the link below to do thatbut first here is an explanation about the pricing:

If the Standard Price Ticket (200 Euros) is genuinely beyond your budget, select the Reduced Price Ticket option and pay what
you can afford; down to just 1 Euro if genuinely necessary.

We are using this unusual pricing model for this event because we do not want cost to be a barrier to attendance and
participation on such important topics, so if 200 Euros is a problem, don’t worry you can genuinely select to pay any amount you want down to literally just 1 Euro – please be reasonable depending on
your affordability but it is for you to judge what is reasonable.