Everything in the Church I am convinced has come from God. But whether or not I like it is another story. I can think of SEVERAL things in the Orthodox Church that I believe are from God even though I do not like them. Among those things are 2 1/2 hour Liturgies, fasting, not being able to have sex unless I'm married, not being able to masturbate, having a rule against practically anything fun, etc.

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Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.

Hell bugs me. Not that I think the Church got it wrong. Just bugs me. Is all.

And this thread, it will not end well. Mark. My. Wor--

All's well that ends well. And everything ends well.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 12:10:41 AM by Jetavan »

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Hell bugs me. Not that I think the Church got it wrong. Just bugs me. Is all.

I don't know if I can convey this correctly, but Asteriktos it would have bugged me if the concept of hell did not bug you.

one of the deep revulsion I feel is triggered when I hear self proclaimed saintly beings talk gleefully about the existence of hell. when they go on in a fantasy journey of imagining the different tortures that awaits those they are certain would go to hell. with a thinly veiled sadism they hid behind a facade of spirituality they enjoy indulging in their perverse thrill either from pulpit or in their personal conviction as they imagine the smoke of those burning sinners rising without redeeming hope.....For. All. Eternity.

if you think about it, if by their own definition such are the people who will be in heaven...best if this sentence is not finished.

on the other hand we have folks like mosses who would say to God on the behalf of the rebellious: far be it from you to do such a thing, wipe my name of the Book of Life before you wipe them off.

and that beautiful man origen...

oh and there is this one Ethiopian Saint Kristos Semra, she couldn't bear the thought of eternal separation from the Divine Love or that anyone who knows God truly can possibly hate him .she was convinced that God is a Loving God who will commune with anyone willing to commune with Him no matter what their sins might have been. she was a seraphic soul burning with the Love of God and everything He created so she set out to pray for the Devil himself not because she liked what he has become and his deeds but because she burned with love and compassion for the tortured being she imagined him to be. the devil being the one who was ensnaring the Children of Adam she thought if Lucifer was to repent then God will forgive him which will inturn will eliminate the greatest adversary of the Children of Adam who wields death as his weapon of their enslavement. the Devil attacked her in many trials, the Lord allowed her to see the depth of the hatred in there, at her final battle when the darkness fought her to capture her, she managed to rescue tens of thousands by her intercession. she became the light they followed to escape the darkness that held them.

whatever fairness and justice we might think we understand, if we know the guiding principle of everything is Love then I think it would be better while we stick to what is reveled to us, still like all those about to be sentenced to death we must hope that love will find a way to win over even the most hardened hearts. because I believe in hoping for that we hope for what is Worthy of Love.

forgive the length of the maundering, I cant sleep.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 05:15:02 AM by Hiwot »

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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

@ Peter, I dig your new avatar,LOL although I do miss that adventurous cat.

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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

I like everything about the church, but I don't think I fit in well with the Egyptian personality. Sometimes I have to set a time limit on how much of the agape meal I'll stay for, because I get overloaded with all the yelling and talking over each other. Often I am glad that it is mostly or completely in Arabic so that I only have to deal with about 10% of it. I know that's not the right attitude, but usually I'm already tired from the liturgy, so I'm not really in the mood for yelling and politics and a lot of questions. We're eating beans and rice, folks...why get all worked up? It never leads to anything good, anyway. Here's something that's never happened between two people in my parish arguing, in any language: A: "Yeah, well...here is a string of calmly-presented, well-considered points about an uncontroversial topic for you to consider, should you be looking to expand your viewpoint!" B: "Wow...I never thought of things that way. It turns out I was wrong and you were right. Let's celebrate by enjoying our meal together while I silently consider how to change my viewpoint and/or behavior as a consequence of this new information that you have presented me with."

Granted, these are more interpersonal issues than faith issues, but I can't think of anything that's actually major or a matter of faith that I don't like. There's plenty I don't understand, sure, but not liking it? It is what it is whether I like it or not, so I don't see why that matters.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Eh. There are several things that make me say 'oh, bother!', but they have their place too. I mean, if everything fit me as I am right now and there were no challenges, what motivation would I have to advance?

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

From my perspective I can extend it in such way: not being open for other Orthodox traditions (it's the case of Poland) in all areas: - liturgical practices (it's not only about other jurisdictions, but also about older practices which can't be brought back e.g proper hours of the Holy Week services), - way of chanting (only Russian composers and synodal, very rarerely something else), - language (I'm for Church Slavonic for services, but not for readings, and why sometimes - fortunately less and less - there is used a mix of Russian, Polish and something else in the sermons - it's lower level and most people don't understand it clearly)- view on Holy Mysteries of some laity, especially artificial Sacrament of "Confession and Holy Eucharist"

As for Serbia, the mentality of people means following some stupid rules of "grannies tales".

But there are also many things I find common among various Orthodox nations and Churches (including OO) and I like them.

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Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

Wow, I thought that was just me. Most people seem to struggle with the lack of meat, for me that's much easier to live without than cheese is.

James

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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.