Al Qaida has claimed responsibility for the embassy attack in Libya, saying it was in retaliation for the killing of Abu Yahya al-Libi in June by a U.S. drone. The Libyan government's earlier assessment agrees; they said it was a pre-planned, coordinated attack by foreign extremists from the Maghreb, aided by some local sympathizers.

Meanwhile, the Obama administration says it's too soon to call it a "terrorist attack" per se, and that it was caused by the youtube video (as opposed to any actions of our government, such as waging a drone war against AQIM, or inviting attack by leaving an embassy in Benghazi defended only by locals because "uniformed troops wouldn't look good", which the State Department denies).

You see, if it wasn't a big, spectacular "terrorist attack", then nobody should expect Obama to do anything about it. Therefore, it wasn't a big, spectacular terrorist attack, but merely a protest against our freedom of spee.... uh... against some bad person's hate speech. East Asia has always been the enemy.

You read some second-level interpretation into what I said, or something. I'm not justifying it; I'm saying we should not be doing it.

Sorry about that, my sarcasm detector is off, cutting down on coffee. Should leave all of the middle-east alone, if you ask me, and not accept refugees from there. Could provide books on science, philosophy, guerilla-warfare manuals for free tho. I'm just too bitter about Saudi influences in post-war balkans, it goes in wrong direction.

BoneKracker wrote:

Also, don't worry, when they come up through the Balkans this time, just use the lessons learned from last time about what works: impale every enemy prisoner and collaborator, and leave a forest of impaled Muslim bodies as a warning to the invaders. Maybe they won't make it all the way into the heart of central Europe this time, or capture Spain, Greece, etc.

We tried that, even asked our european neighbors for help, since invaders were too many. They were too busy scratching their ass, and sniffing their fingers. _________________“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”

Yeah, well, just don't chastise us for our current Middle-East interventionism, and then a couple decades after we abandon it, come crying to us for the same kind of help you're talking about. The Western Europeans will probably use you as a "buffer zone" again.

Yeah, well, just don't chastise us for our current Middle-East interventionism, and then a couple decades after we abandon it, come crying to us for the same kind of help you're talking about. The Western Europeans will probably use you as a "buffer zone" again.

Nah you guys don't get it. There is no "buffer zone" this time.

Now, this all may very well be a fart in a wind, in a sense that nothing happens, but those among Islamic fundamentalists really took it bad when Ottoman empire collapsed, it was the last "big thing" they had, the last proof of their "superior faith".

The lesson they learned was that they cannot go about raising an army and marching towards Europe (or towards anywhere else, for that matter). So how do they go about establishing dominance? By outbreeding others. And when it happens, it will be at home. War won't be in balkans, it will be in EU and US. Any future war will be civil war. Bombing middle-east just breeds more fundamentalists in US and EU, recruited from the ranks of "normal" muslims who just wanted to go on about their lives.

And rise of nazi-like nutcases in EU just scares the normal ones, they go seek for comfort in groups, imams take over groups and in few generations there are no "moderate" muslims anymore, and it will be justified by what the "evil US & EU" did in Middle-East, under already seen-through pretense of "spreading democracy".

That is what I've heard in Montreal, by the way, before I buggered off out of there. Everything happening now is just playing into fundamentalists hands, but on the other hand, they would use anything anyway. Bombing for oil and corporate profits, pretending something else, bailouts and bonuses, greed, etc etc, they love that stuff._________________“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”

"What the U.S. and EU are doing" is just populist agitation propaganda, used to inflame the general public and influence policy. But, it has nothing to do with their core motivation, in the exact same way that youtube movie had nothing to do with this year's 9/11 attacks.

They want the pussified public to believe that if they would only just bend over, the penis will stop thrusting toward their anus. Well, it's not going to stop. The agenda is not driven by Western irritation, Jews, or anything else they bitch about. The agenda is on an historical timeline:

Islam has reaped a hundred years of oil profits; Western control in the region (contrary to what they'd like people to believe) has waned and is lower than it's been at any time since the 19th Century; the Soviet Union, looming to the North and in a death-struggle with the West, has collapsed; with Chinese industrialization, the oil producers have the world by the balls, for at least a few more brief decades; the West is in economic recession and post-Cold-War pussification has made them soft, hedonistic, and idealistic; the worldly Kuffars of the West cannot even think on a timeline beyond their 4-year political cycles, much less their own lives; and unless there is a concerted effort to resist it; a new Islamic empire will emerge, as powerful as the Western hegemony, armed with nuclear weapons, and with religious fanatics manning the buttons. This time, they will take Europe, because it is even more pussified than the U.S., having been pussified since WWII, and because they have a strong 5th column already present and growing there (as you mentioned).

Meanwhile, we can't see the forest for the trees, and we will continue to fap over how soon we can get the iPhone5, whose tits or meat-flaps the paparazzi have photographed this week, and whether the next U.S. president will be 48% socialist versus 53% socialist.

Well, what I put my money on is that all those normal people who happen to be "muslims" on paper but not really practicing it (meaning, they can read, like music, beer and pussy) will be new generation who will give finger to anything old, and eventually just assimilate enough so that they at least have allegorical relationship with their religion, like those who consider themselves christians do.

If that doesn't happen, if they don't integrate, then we're fucked. In that regard I don't understand the european immigration policy, especially swedish one. Foreigners from uncool countries that are trying to integrate are getting double-shafted, by society and by the fundamentalists, while those unwilling to integrate are getting rewarded by naive welfare system._________________“If You Meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him”

Integration or assimilation requires a controlled rate of immigration, to prevent large-scale enclaves from developing. The "multi-culti" policy did a lot of harm, too, since it is essentially the idea that sociological integration (assimilation) is not necessary, and that immigration should be unrestricted.

I agree. I think we should leave the problem of Islam to Europe, Russia, and China. It's not our problem. If they attack us, we destroy whoever attacked; but no more nation-building. Provided we control it domestically, the Jihadi resurgence of Islamist imperialism is your problem, not ours.

It probably won't come to a head for 50 years or so, but maybe after you've beaten each other to nearly to death, we'll come over and finish them off for you and deliver the coup de grâce , like we did in the other world wars.

We should be devoting our resources to the annexation of Canada, Cuba, and Central America.

The biggest mistake made in the last 15 years is the Iraq/Afghani wars. Not only giving the jihadis a lifetime of propaganda, but also splitting the US population into nuts and isolationists. Some of the more recent outings could have used a more solid america, which may have been possible if america wasn't in those places.

Thanks Bush. And others like to give this guy a pass but I give credit where it is due, thanks Blair.

The biggest mistake made in the last 15 years is the Iraq/Afghani wars. Not only giving the jihadis a lifetime of propaganda, but also splitting the US population into nuts and isolationists. Some of the more recent outings could have used a more solid america, which may have been possible if america wasn't in those places.

Thanks Bush. And others like to give this guy a pass but I give credit where it is due, thanks Blair.

I would correct you and point out that the real problem is the Jihad... not those responding to it. What needs attention is the sick and depraved mentality that excuses the murder of innocents because of some perceived slight, not those responding to the aftermath of the actual aggression.

So, were I your editor... I would condemn the Qua'ran, Hadith and every 7th century throwback who uses the philosophy of a child-raping murderer to excuse their own murderous ambitions. Stop blaming the victims... it is sick._________________People Of Love

The biggest mistake made in the last 15 years is the Iraq/Afghani wars. Not only giving the jihadis a lifetime of propaganda, but also splitting the US population into nuts and isolationists. Some of the more recent outings could have used a more solid america, which may have been possible if america wasn't in those places.

Thanks Bush. And others like to give this guy a pass but I give credit where it is due, thanks Blair.

I would correct you and point out that the real problem is the Jihad... not those responding to it. What needs attention is the sick and depraved mentality that excuses the murder of innocents because of some perceived slight, not those responding to the aftermath of the actual aggression.

So, were I your editor... I would condemn the Qua'ran, Hadith and every 7th century throwback who uses the philosophy of a child-raping murderer to excuse their own murderous ambitions. Stop blaming the victims... it is sick.

I think it is complicated. Surely, some of this is general anti americanism at work. But it is more than just american wars against muslim nations that have pissed them off; recall the cartoons originating in the tiny country of denmark, where no such excuse exists. however, like the ill though out war in Iraq, this anger is wholly misplaced, and the victims (embassy staff) are innocent bystander.

But I do think that these incidences serve an interesting purpose. It seems to clearly draw a line between the west and islam. Some people are calling for international blasphemy laws. which is pretty far from the western mainstream and on a different planet from libertarians (as a social libertarian, I conveniently lump myself in this group now). People normally sympathetic to middle eastern affairs switch sides when this mess happens.

but you mention the heart of the problem from our point of view. most here don't want to live under anything representing sharia or seventh century morality, but some nuts want us to. For that reason, criticism will be dealt out and reasoned arguments and mockery are bloodless and effective ways of defending views and attacking the opposition. but there is a reason why we don't mock the Jain gods nearly as much (though no doubt deserving of the standard mockery delivered at supernatural stories).

I agree. I think we should leave the problem of Islam to Europe, Russia, and China. It's not our problem. If they attack us, we destroy whoever attacked; but no more nation-building. Provided we control it domestically, the Jihadi resurgence of Islamist imperialism is your problem, not ours.

It probably won't come to a head for 50 years or so, but maybe after you've beaten each other to nearly to death, we'll come over and finish them off for you and deliver the coup de grâce , like we did in the other world wars.

We should be devoting our resources to the annexation of Canada, Cuba, and Central America.

Cmon, stop being so pouty...

You know damn well that what you are doing in Middle-East is not "taking care of it" or "spreading democracy" or "educating masses" or "accelerating islam towards its own Enlightenment". You are there for their oil. No need to be shy about it. All empires behaved the same way, we've seen it before. Pardon us for not giving a shit weather you guys think history started with Declaration of Independence.

Also, all those wars create refugees, which end up in Europe, maybe because its kinda close, and it had social system designed to not allow its own population (you know, those Europeans who built it up) to slide down to poverty, crime, etc etc, in case they get fired from a job, or lose a leg in a car accident and stuff. You know, stuff that happens to people.

All you ever did in Middle-East was try to get oil, play proxy wars with Soviet Union, remove democratically elected presidents with your UK buddies and install tyrannical assholes, who in turn got booted in a revolution and replaced with a fucked up ogres from Stone age, who accidentaly point their fingers at you guys (wonder why).

And now all of a sudden you are saving us from Islamisation? Color me unimpressed, you're just doing same shit colonial powers were doing before you, don't try and pretend you're doing something else. Hubris = BAD.

I'm guessing Euro replacing the Dollar. France, maybe just because they make free-market deals with available consumers while ignoring government interference of such deals._________________Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present, Man Not Caring. -- Perry Cox

Well, what I put my money on is that all those normal people who happen to be "muslims" on paper but not really practicing it (meaning, they can read, like music, beer and pussy) will be new generation who will give finger to anything old, and eventually just assimilate enough so that they at least have allegorical relationship with their religion, like those who consider themselves christians do.

If that doesn't happen, if they don't integrate, then we're fucked. In that regard I don't understand the european immigration policy, especially swedish one. Foreigners from uncool countries that are trying to integrate are getting double-shafted, by society and by the fundamentalists, while those unwilling to integrate are getting rewarded by naive welfare system.

normal people who happen to be "muslims" on paper but not really practicing it (meaning, they can read, like music, beer and pussy) will be new generation who will give finger to anything old, and eventually just assimilate enough so that they at least have allegorical relationship with their religion

I've met a few of these. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't even seem all that uncommon.
In fact, one guy even used the same words, saying he was only Muslim on paper.

No bias there?
[edit] I found a nutcase against another one - the fundamentalist one.
[€dit2] I love hate when you get asleep and just love-hate my thinking. So cute. I am just asking myself why, you all have such a potential...I am nothing.