over training?

I ride 100-150 miles a week, 5 to 6 days. try to keep calories around
2000 per day. (low on white flours, carbs and junk food)

Today on the group ride, the fast guys dropped me quick. I made only a
few miles with them at 24-26 mph. The weird thing was, my legs were
dead, and I couldnt even get my heart rate over 83% my max. Remainder
of the ride, 18-20 mph killing me, climbs, killing me, but heart rate
stayed low.
I had a great ride last sunday, hung in there a long time, followed by
a weak monday night ride (lack of food) I added 2 days of mtn biking
this week. Did I over extend my legs, or am I just pushing too hard?
I have also noticed a decline in my weight loss rate these last few
weeks.

A couple things come to mind. Over-training is an obvious possibility. But you're not doing that much riding, so I wonder if that could be it. They say your resting pulse rate will go up if you're over-trained. Has it?

Your diet is another possibility. Maybe you're getting too much protein and not enough carbs and fat to fuel your engine. Try eating a carb snack like oatmeal or whole grain bread before a long ride, and eat a good meal right after the ride, with a good balance of carb, protein and fat, to help muscle tissue rebuild and replenish glycogen.

It might be the type of training you're doing. If you're doing all long rides, kind of slow, that's what you'll be best at. If you want to ride fast, train fast. But long slow rides are best for weight loss, so don't be too quick to change. In the long run you burn off more calories if you ride for a longer time.

My traiing is varied, I do HR intervals, sprints, climbs, long slow cadence big gear, high cadence. recovery rides, I really mix it up. Cliff bar before every ride. whey protien for recovery. Come to think of it, except for the cliff bars/gel etc, I dont think I get enough carbs.

What did you do yesterday? Before a hard ride on Sunday I like to do a pretty easy ride on Saturday. I will just thrown in a couple of sprint intervals to wake my legs up. I generally take Friday off or do a very easy recovery day. My weakest days are almost always after a day off, two days off really affects me.

What strikes me is your caloric intake. 2000? Are you sure about that? With junk food that number should be higher. Even so, with your riding, you may actually be starving yourself and therefore running down your body.

36 years old
229 lbs
5'10"
Riding since feb, couple days a week, since may, 5 to 6
inactive for the last 6 years, prior to that Marine Corps Infantry (running every mornign etc.)
My riding is varied, 2 mtn bike days, hour long climb, 20 minutes back down. Road riding, 65%70% max hr warm up, 10 min or so, 75-80% max cruise (around 18mph, with no wind) I do intervals, push up to 90% max. I do take a recovery day a week on the bike, not going over 75% max. One rest day a week off the bike.
Diet has been low on carbs (no rice, pasta, potatoes, maybe a coke a week, 1 time a week fast food. By junk food, it means I may sneak a 100 calorie weight watchers ice cream, or cookies like that. Other than that, good foods going in, no sugars, grease etc.
My diet mainly consists of cliff bars, granola, fruit, veg, cheese, milk, meat.

You should probably just skip this post, since it probably doesn't contain anything you want to hear. But as somebody who has successfully fought the battle with obesity for several years now, I'm going to share some of what I've learned. I hope this doesn't offend you, but I do feel like I know some of the hardships you are facing.

With a BMI of 32.9 you are considered obese. So it seems like you should be focusing your efforts on losing weight before you worry about anything else, like how fast you can ride. Somebody who is as heavy as you should gradually work up to exercising 90 minutes a day, almost every day. To accomplish that, you probably need to ride slow and steady with not too many hills. You just can't afford to burn yourself out before the 90 minutes is up, and you have to be able to come back and do it again tomorrow. So slow down! Sorry, that's just the way it is, according to just about every reputable weight loss expert out there. You also should check with a doctor before you do much more.

About your diet: "No sugars, grease, etc." Sorry, not true. Clif bars contain sugar, and meat and cheese are packed with fat (grease). Those foods should probably be an occasional treat while you're losing weight, not mainstays of your diet. Instead of the Clif bars, try a big breakfast of whole grain cereal, fruit and skim milk. This will give you carbs and calories for a long ride with much more nutrients.

According to the Weight Loss Registry, most people who have successfully lost a lot of weight and kept it off have two things in common:

The only contention I have with your post is. this recent ride and week, is the only plateu, or overtraining I have felt. I have been doing 100 mile+ weeks since May. My 20-25 mile rides do not burn me out. I often come back, and and an hour later, go for a cruise to the park on my Kona pulling my daughter in her trailMy sunday group rides, I hang in there, 24-27 mph for 10 iles or more. My concern was this week, I dropped after a couple of miles.

Continually looking at the situation, I am mostly attributing it to at this time, the introduction of two hard climbing mtn bike days during the week, not having a recovery ride, and not riding the day before my sunday ride. I plan to continue those rides, so adjusting my calorie intake to 3000 per day (training day) and seeing how that is going.

Your taking the diet to literaly, No sugars, means I dont snack on candies, and grease means, I do not fry my foods in grease, oils etc. I was too general in my post, sorry about that.

I see your point about losing weight first, but, there is no sense in me being skinny, and slow

My body type doesnt get "skinny" Even while rowing varsity NCAA crew, and marine Corps infantry (including boot camp) I do not get near 155lbs, as most sites say is "healthy" for my height.

What scared me most is, my legs gave out before my HR on sunday. I can never remember this ever happening to me in the last 5 months of training. Rowing crew, then 25 mile hikes with 100 pound packs, plus carrying around extra fat, has left me with huge, powerful legs. It just freaked me out they were going before my cardio, which is normally what happens to me when I push hard.

First off, I'm thinking that you're not overtraining. Not at only 150 miles over 5 days and building up to it over the past 5 months.
I'm much more inclined to think that you're not eating right or not eating enough. Your caloric intake keeps me scratching my head.

There may also be a medical reason behind your sudden drop-off in energy. Before becoming alarmed, I'd eat more carbs first for about a couple of weeks, maybe bring your caloric intake up and then see what happens.

You know there is one other possibility. Maybe you just had a bad day, we all have them.

Just so you know 20 months ago I was almost the same size as you. I am 5'10" and I weighed 220 pounds. By watching what I ate and going to the gym I managed to get down to my current 168 - 172 pounds. It's amazing how much easier it is to keep up with the fast guys now. Actually, I'm generally doing quite a bit of the pulling and making others suffer and wonder why they are hurting. Losing the weight is the secret. Oh yeah, I kept telling myself that I didn't have the frame to be "skinny" either.

I can see that as a fromer Marine and athlete, there's probably a lot of muscle under the blubber. But the numbers don't lie. Sorry to say this, but if Lance put a 90 pound back pack on, bringing his weight up to 239 pounds, how fast do you think he'd be? Probably 16.5 mph. I doubt if you'll ever be faster at that weight. You've been training hard for a few months and you havbe plateaued--you've reached your current maximum potential. Something has to change if you want to get much faster! Also, you're 36 years old--middle-aged--heart attack territory--and you have a kid. What's more important--dropping a few pounds to stay alive, or dropping a few morons in your bike club?

First things first....And first you get fit, then you get fast.

Unfortunately the type of training you do to get fit will emphasize duration over intensity. But it's your body and your choice, of course. Best of luck, whatever you decide! I hop you keep us posted on your progress, Desmo.

desmo:
At age 63 my weight was 240 with 6 ft height and size 40 waist. My riding skills were close to what you describe above.
I decided on a cross country fast ride with a group. We will do 120 to 150 miles/day for 25 riding days. That meant getting my AVERAGE speed close to 20 MPH average and solo and all day long.

First thing I did is to reduce my weight to 195 lb. That was done with Oatmeal breakfast, fish and veggies for lunch and dinner. Red quality wine as a reward.
My waist is now 34-36.

Next I did interval training to get my speed up. Most of the training on a hydraulic trainer.
I was and I am able to do 100 miles in six hours on a hydraulic trainer. That is very hard to do.
I did the 3000 mile ride typically in the top six out of 30 bikers.
It can be done.

What scared me most is, my legs gave out before my HR on sunday. I can never remember this ever happening to me in the last 5 months of training. Rowing crew, then 25 mile hikes with 100 pound packs, plus carrying around extra fat, has left me with huge, powerful legs. It just freaked me out they were going before my cardio, which is normally what happens to me when I push hard.

I'm trying to remember a ride where my legs weren't giving me grief.

I'll state the obvious and tell you that you were "leg limited". Two possible explanations:

Monday night group ride report, I felt good, was able to get my HR mback up over 90% max on hills and attacks/sprints. I calculated I needed 3100 calories today, I missed my goa and only took in 2400 Butr they were quality.

Roody, I appreciate your "hitting me in the gut" advice and straight talk, as I appreciate all the posters comments, I have/am learnign so much.

Weight loss is more important than keeping up, I agree. I started this whole journey for my daughter, so she can have a 100 year old dad. I am down 40 lbs since febuary, I am going to incorporate more active recover/long slow low HR rides in. Use my two group rides, plus my 2 mtn bike days for working on power/speed. That leaves me with 2 recovery/endurance day rides and one day off.

I keep going over all the posts, and thoughts from friends, it seems like the "perfect storm" hit me:

Probably more important than the BMI is your body fat percentage, and where your fat is located. An NFL running back looks obese on paper (LaMont Jordan - 5'10" and 230 lbs), but probably has a body fat % in the low teens.

If you're looking to drop more body fat (the best weight to lose, in my opinion), you might also want to take up some weight training. Muscles are very needy, and for every lb of muscle you build, it needs something like 200 kcals a day just to maintain itself.

You can feel terribly depleted if you're losing weight at the same time as you're trying to get fit, but overtraining? The symptoms are muscle loss, gain in fat percentage, getting sick. This is from exercising while carb depleted.

Either do your long workouts at a slower pace or eat some carbs during and after your harder workouts.

With the much training (although it is not the much per week) I think you definately need to eat a lot more. You are burning around 1000 calories per day and should therefore be eating 3000-3300 calories. In addition, a pace of 25-26mph is incredibly hard to keep up with for anyone even slightly overweight. I would therefore find a group that is more comfortable at a slower pace, perhaps 14-17mph for 2 hours.

Body Fat, all my fat is in my lovehandles and cheeks.
The group I ride with is great. We all head out together, the fast guys attack, the not fast just keep going. those that get dropped, get picked up by the moderate group.