It 's clear that this is a painful subject for some, but it's reality for others. I won't press it as it will result in further childish name calling and others branding me racist (which is the norm here). Rather than see this as a problem which needs addressing. We talk about "Tourism" and we can't even get it right with local tourism.. forget the foreign market at this point.

And I'm the brainwashed idiot.

No one is branding you racist. We are simply describing what you are implying. If that points to you sounding racist then you need to look in the mirror.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:00:44 AM by Socapro »

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De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Forumites, we should not discount jumbie's account of his personal experience in Tobago. It is his experience. I have not been to Tobago in about 10 yrs. But in the early 70s, I spent memorable "august holidays" around Bacolet. That beach was mines. The people were nice. Yes they spoke different from Trinis.

But I remember some Tobagonian having a disdain for Trinis who came there with an attitude. I remember me and some PTSC buddies went there for a week, and we left Pigeon Point beach and was rushing to catch the bus back to Scarborough. The driver told us we had to get the sand of our feet. The Tobagonian in our group told the driver "Aye, we working PTSC". The driver put the bus in gear and left us standing right there.

We had to walk. On our we sat by the side of the road and again our Tobago member was trying to hitch a ride in a bare back state. A car was coming and it slow down and stopped. The driver, a proper and well driven man came a berated the group for " ole nigger behavior ". And promptly DEMANDED that our Tobago group member put back on his shirt. And in departing he advised us, when coming to Tobago, we should leave our Trinidadian attitude when the boat past Toco.

By the way, remember the bus driver who left us stranded? Well, made his trip and met us again. "Allyuh clean now, come in"

Forumites, we should not discount jumbie's account of his personal experience in Tobago. It is his experience. I have not been to Tobago in about 10 yrs. But in the early 70s, I spent memorable "august holidays" around Bacolet. That beach was mines. The people were nice. Yes they spoke different from Trinis.

But I remember some Tobagonian have a disdain for Trinis who came there with an attitude. I remember me and some PTSC buddies went there for a week and we left Pigeon Point beach and was rushing to catch the bus back to Scarborough. The driver told we had to get the sand of our feet. The Tobagonians in the group told the driver "Aye, we working PTSC". The driver put the bus in gear and left us standing right there".

We had to walk. On our we sat by the side of the road and again our Tobago member was trying to hitch a ride in a bare back state. A car was coming and it slow down and stopped. The driver, a proper and well driven man came a berated the group for " ole nigger behavior ". And promptly DEMANDED that our Tobago group member put back on his shirt. And in departing he advised us, when coming to Tobago, we should leave our Trinidadian attitude when the boat past Toco.

By the way, remember the bus driver who left us stranded? Well, made his trip and met us again. "Allyuh clean now, come in"

Nice story which seems to have more to do with Tobagonians having a bias against Trinidadians and even fellow Tobagonians with a bad attitude rather than having anything to do with nationality or one's race.

What I have observed over the years is that since Tobagonians have recognised that they have been earning a larger and larger share of their tourists dollars from visting Trinidadians is that their attitude towards visiting Trinidadians have generally improved a whole lot.

It is now at a stage where I generally find Tobagonians to be much friendlier than Trinidadians as someone who is a born Trinidadian. In fact Trinidadians can learn a lot from Tobagonians at this point about being more patriotic and protective towards our island.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:38:10 AM by Socapro »

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De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Forumites, we should not discount jumbie's account of his personal experience in Tobago. It is his experience. I have not been to Tobago in about 10 yrs. But in the early 70s, I spent memorable "august holidays" around Bacolet. That beach was mines. The people were nice. Yes they spoke different from Trinis.

But I remember some Tobagonian having a disdain for Trinis who came there with an attitude. I remember me and some PTSC buddies went there for a week, and we left Pigeon Point beach and was rushing to catch the bus back to Scarborough. The driver told us we had to get the sand of our feet. The Tobagonian in our group told the driver "Aye, we working PTSC". The driver put the bus in gear and left us standing right there.

We had to walk. On our we sat by the side of the road and again our Tobago member was trying to hitch a ride in a bare back state. A car was coming and it slow down and stopped. The driver, a proper and well driven man came a berated the group for " ole nigger behavior ". And promptly DEMANDED that our Tobago group member put back on his shirt. And in departing he advised us, when coming to Tobago, we should leave our Trinidadian attitude when the boat past Toco.

By the way, remember the bus driver who left us stranded? Well, made his trip and met us again. "Allyuh clean now, come in"

This was Jumbie's first comment. Seem as if he was expressing more than just a personal experience to me

Forumites, we should not discount jumbie's account of his personal experience in Tobago. It is his experience. I have not been to Tobago in about 10 yrs. But in the early 70s, I spent memorable "august holidays" around Bacolet. That beach was mines. The people were nice. Yes they spoke different from Trinis.

But I remember some Tobagonian having a disdain for Trinis who came there with an attitude. I remember me and some PTSC buddies went there for a week, and we left Pigeon Point beach and was rushing to catch the bus back to Scarborough. The driver told us we had to get the sand of our feet. The Tobagonian in our group told the driver "Aye, we working PTSC". The driver put the bus in gear and left us standing right there.

We had to walk. On our we sat by the side of the road and again our Tobago member was trying to hitch a ride in a bare back state. A car was coming and it slow down and stopped. The driver, a proper and well driven man came a berated the group for " ole nigger behavior ". And promptly DEMANDED that our Tobago group member put back on his shirt. And in departing he advised us, when coming to Tobago, we should leave our Trinidadian attitude when the boat past Toco.

By the way, remember the bus driver who left us stranded? Well, made his trip and met us again. "Allyuh clean now, come in"

This was Jumbie's first comment. Seem as if he was expressing more than just a personal experience to me

From the heart of my Tobagonian bottom, you're a firetrucking idiot!!......

And this is why you and I does get along, yuh not afraid to call bullshit for what it is. I watching people give this man a pass for his clearly offensive statement against Tobagonians and just shaking my head.

and you said.. "I personally know of Afro-Trinis who received shabby treatment in Tobgo simply because they were not viewed by the locals as having loads of money to spend."

so you're saying the people of Tobago are?

my experience is MINES! spin how ever you want.

Your experience is yours, but you didn't say "first Indian I know of who get good treatment in Tobago"... you made it broader than that by implying such a thing has never happened before, not just in your experience, but ever. You are a f**king idiot... if nobody else have the guts to say it.

and you said.. "I personally know of Afro-Trinis who received shabby treatment in Tobgo simply because they were not viewed by the locals as having loads of money to spend."

so you're saying the people of Tobago are?

my experience is MINES! spin how ever you want.

Your experience is yours, but you didn't say "first Indian I know of who get good treatment in Tobago"... you made it broader than that by implying such a thing has never happened before, not just in your experience, but ever. You are a f**king idiot... if nobody else have the guts to say it.

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De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Government has purchased the controversial Buccoo Estate in Tobago, popularly known as No Man’s Land, for $174, 806,775 million.

The 398.42 acre property, which is listed as one of the CL Financial’s (CLF) assets, was sold earlier this year. Each acre was valued at US$65,000, bringing the total value of the secluded property to US$25,897,300.

In 2016, Clico carried on its balance sheet the value of the land at roughly $187 million. The transfer agreement was completed on March 2017.

However, at a press conference last week, Carlton Reis, who represents CL Financial shareholders under the group United Shareholders Ltd, had estimated the land at $500 million.

Clico Policyholders Group chairman Peter Permell, in a July 16 Sunday Guardian article, said a Project Rebirth report prepared by PricewaterhouseCoppers estimated the fair market value of the property at approximately $867 million.

The land will be offered to Sandals chairman Gordon “Butch” Stewart for the construction of two hotel resorts comprising 750 rooms.

Yesterday, Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley confirmed Government purchased the property at market value. He said an issue was raised recently about Government’s taking possession of the CLF assets, noting it was argued that what was on the books was not the real value and Government should have sought a valuation.

“But it was said that the lands we took in Tobago in lieu of the debt and set off against the debt might have been improperly done and the value might not have been established properly. Let me today put that to rest,” he said.

“The Government, quite properly, through the relevant authority in all of this, the board set off the monies owed for the value of those land. And the value was established by reputable independent valuators in Trinidad and Tobago. And that is the value at which the Government’s debt was reduced by virtue of the value of this land.”

The PM warned all those who have been saying the Government took possession of the land and paid “half X for it... nothing is further from the truth. The law requires that any disposal of assets under the Central Bank, as it is now holding assets for Clico…any disposal requires fair market value. And that is exactly what we got in that.

He said the valuation was based on an analysis of 100 per cent of the common stock of Occidental Investments Ltd and Oceanic Properties Ltd, owned by Clico.

Rowley said a lot of misinformation was being put out in the public domain by people who were unaware “but who are fuelling conspiracies and ascribing misconduct to the Government” was misleading.

“Those lands would have been acquired by the Government at full market value established by reputable valuators.”

Rowley left a copy of the valuation for the media’s perusal, but did not field questions about the land.

The Buccoo Estate in Tobago, popularly known as No Man's Land, which was purchased by government for $174, 806,775 million.

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The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

In the past year, Tobago businesses have suffered over $750 million in losses and the country has spent millions of dollars to fix the seabridge problem. But as of today the crisis continues and now, businesses are saying without a Government bailout or some sort of assistance there is no hope of recovery.

Business owners in Tobago yesterday told the T&T Guardian they now face the opposite problem to what they did in the period May to July last year. Back then they had problems getting goods to stock their shelves and some shelves were empty, but today they say their shelves are stocked “but the customers are just not there.”

Supermarket owners said “goods are now expiring on our hands.” In addition, they say it now makes no sense stocking freezers with meats and other cold products and warehouses are stocked with goods that are not being sold.

Business owners said the estimated $750 million in losses excludes businesses forced to close their doors or repossessed by the banks.

Scores of workers have also been sent home and with a growing unemployment and crime on the island, business owners say the time has come for Government “to step up to the plate.”

Several business owners said they are hoping Government will come up with a “viable bailout plan and get us back our credit rating because they have destroyed our credit rating.” They are advocating “compensation for losses suffered,” because they claim the banks are not extending any facilities to the business community and people continue to get foreclosure notices. They added that their credit rating is gone, they are “no longer bankable,” they are now experiencing a credit crunch and things continue to “look bleak because the economy has totally contracted.”

Even the conglomerates are affected.

ANSA McAL Group of Companies deputy chairman Andrew Sabga told the group’s annual stockbrokers meeting on Thursday, “The big problem is demand has significantly curbed because people are having problems getting to and from Tobago.”

Sabga said a “large portion of the consumption is tourists and non-Tobagonian arrivals.”

But despite the losses suffered by the Tobago business community, Tobago East Member of Parliament Ayanna Webster-Roy insisted in Parliament that all was well.

However, bed and breakfast owners say their businesses have declined and Hotel and Tourism Association president Chris James says Tobago had suffered massively and he expects the low occupancy levels which have plagued the island’s hotel sector to continue.

Newly-appointed Tobago Chamber chairman Claude Benoit said he was saddened by the situation, noting it had destroyed the confidence of people in Tobago.

“There is no credibility, people are not even thinking of coming to Tobago because they don’t know how they will get back and vice versa. The question is how long will it take to build back confidence in the system that they have destroyed? That is the main issue,” Benoit said.

Benoit said restoring confidence in the Tobago economy is “what will start to spur the economy for things to start happening. It is very serious and when you listen to others who say there are no problems in Tobago I don’t know.”

He said the Chamber had agreed to set up a team with the Tobago House of Assembly to help address the problems faced by the business community on the island. A report presented by economist Vanus James, he said, recommended that “we work with the THA and talk to the Minister of Finance to come up with the necessary funding to help the businesses.”

With banks no longer assisting businesses, he admitted there is an “urgency to the situation.”

As to the T&T Spirit not returning to the seabridge as promised yesterday, Benoit said he found it “alarming.”

“We are just hoping that those who are responsible just do their work and do it well so it could save the island going further down. Because can you imagine this now being Easter, this is one of the biggest holidays for the island and we don’t have a ferry to bring people here? It’s a very sad situation.”

Owner of Penny Savers Supermarkets Lloyd Warner said as a citizen, what has happened in the last year with the seabridge is an “insult for every Tobagonian, that’s an insult as far as I am concerned, treating people like this.”

He said the pain of what has happened is “so severe” that it needs to be dealt with immediately, “because I personally cannot look further than what is happening right now. Because that is the main thing.”

Warner said the seabridge was the “lifeline for Tobago, it is like someone telling you they will block off your nose and tell you to breathe, it is the main thing that is life.”

Responding to Webster-Roy’s position that no one in Tobago is suffering, Warner said, “Because we don’t protest by burning tyres and saying enough is enough, that says we are not suffering?”

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The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

I need a quick Geography or Nautical lesson please. Or maybe I miss some info.

"THE Galleons Passage made it through the Panama Canal yesterday and began heading for Santiago de Cuba, but with heavy rainclouds hanging over it and fears that it might get caught smack bang in the middle of a developing storm in the Caribbean Sea.......Satellite tracking saw the boat at 6.30 am yesterday exiting the canal, then moving along the coast of Cacique, Colombia. It will sail for the next four days to get to Santiago, on the southeastern coast of Cuba......The Meteorological Office at Piarco confirmed the pattern of what is described as “bad weather” when the Galleons Passage passes between Jamaica and Haiti en route to Santiago de Cuba. However, it said there was a likelihood of the wind blowing northwards and the boat is likely to avoid most of the weather systems"

This boat come thru the Panama Canal.Along the coast of Colombia (where is Cacique anyway). Heading to Trinidad & Tobago. Why is it sailing North, past Jamaica to Cuba ? Instead of North East then east to T&T ? Is the next stop New York ?

I need a quick Geography or Nautical lesson please. Or maybe I miss some info.

"THE Galleons Passage made it through the Panama Canal yesterday and began heading for Santiago de Cuba, but with heavy rainclouds hanging over it and fears that it might get caught smack bang in the middle of a developing storm in the Caribbean Sea.......Satellite tracking saw the boat at 6.30 am yesterday exiting the canal, then moving along the coast of Cacique, Colombia. It will sail for the next four days to get to Santiago, on the southeastern coast of Cuba......The Meteorological Office at Piarco confirmed the pattern of what is described as “bad weather” when the Galleons Passage passes between Jamaica and Haiti en route to Santiago de Cuba. However, it said there was a likelihood of the wind blowing northwards and the boat is likely to avoid most of the weather systems"

This boat come thru the Panama Canal.Along the coast of Colombia (where is Cacique anyway). Heading to Trinidad & Tobago. Why is it sailing North, past Jamaica to Cuba ? Instead of North East then east to T&T ? Is the next stop New York ?

The ferry is due to undertake some work in Cuba before reaching here. Not sure why Cuba was chosen to undertake the work but that's what was stated by the Ministry.

I hope while on the way to TT, it do not make a detour to pick up any foreign substances. I still think this a lot of bullshit. They should develop Toco. widen the friggin road. Build a port in Toco. All the money spent on them boat could have been used for that. From Scarboro to Toco is how much friggin miles.

After such a long trip, ah lil R&R in order, that an a lil opposite sex boat, might make ah baby boat that may work our channel. On a serious note, we need to build and maintain our own ships, hire some ship builders to teach, we have engineers, we have welders, we have people.. dare we only capable of making pans ? Do we build and make stuff other than pepper sauce - yeah, yeah, is borse . We richer, yet we poorer. We modern, yet we ancient. We capable and fit, yet inefficient . What really is TT story.Ah Ukraine crew on a Chinese boat, maintenance in Cuba. Ok.Who operates the boat locally, who maintains, ah Nordic crew ? .. since this one getting about 20,000 between T&T trips out it system putt-putting round the Caribbean, by the time we actually make ah nudda 10000 between T&T, we go just buy another one ?

After such a long trip, ah lil R&R in order, that an a lil opposite sex boat, might make ah baby boat that may work our channel. On a serious note, we need to build and maintain our own ships, hire some ship builders to teach, we have engineers, we have welders, we have people.. dare we only capable of making pans ? Do we build and make stuff other than pepper sauce - yeah, yeah, is borse . We richer, yet we poorer. We modern, yet we ancient. We capable and fit, yet inefficient . What really is TT story.Ah Ukraine crew on a Chinese boat, maintenance in Cuba. Ok.Who operates the boat locally, who maintains, ah Nordic crew ? .. since this one getting about 20,000 between T&T trips out it system putt-putting round the Caribbean, by the time we actually make ah nudda 10000 between T&T, we go just buy another one ?

Purchase and all that running around the world..and now we doing test ?

Galleons makes 2nd run to TobagoKinnesha George

Herbert George, chairman of the National Infrastructure Development Company (NIDCO) is convinced that there is still some fine-tuning to be done before the Galleons Passage is put into service.

Yesterday, NIDCO officials sailed aboard the vessel to Tobago in what was considered its second test run to the island. The vessel departed Port of Spain at 7.41 am and arrived in Scarborough at 11.46 am.

For close to 45 minutes, the team aboard the vessel remained on the inside as Sunday Newsday observed officials attempting to get the ramp to line up with the ramp at the port compound.

Speaking with Sunday Newsday as he disembarked, George described the trial run was a success.

“I’m quite comfortable… as far as the vessel everything is fine.

“The ramp though, we have some tweaking to do to make it fit for all seasons; be it high tide or low tide, so we would be doing that in the next week and hopefully during that time we would be getting the necessary certificates and so from the Marine Services Department to be able to sail the vessel with passengers,” he said.

George said, as far as the mechanical functioning of the vessel, there were no problems as it was a smooth sailing to Tobago.

“We have some tweaking to do. As far as this ramp is concerned, we are going to make it wider so that the vessel can berth there much easier than it did today. Although today was a learning experience, I think we can make some adjustments and have it much easier,” he said. Members of the media were then invited inside for a tour of the vessel. Upon entering the vehicle ramp, George indicated that there were plans to install a canopy in that section, so as to prevent the sea spray from coming in onto the vehicles.

“The seller is responsible for that installation, he has had a lot of difficulties to get a vendor to do that work for him, he has gotten someone from Canada, they came and took the measurements and they have gone to fabricate the canopy to install it. They said the next three or so weeks, they would come with the material to have it installed,” he said.

George noted, however, that the installation would not delay the sailing of the vessel on the inter-island route.

As the team proceeded to the top deck, George said that the vessel would accommodate approximately 475 passengers in the first instance as the sun deck would not be used. He said NIDCO would continue to own and maintain the vessel, while it would be wet leased to the Port Authority.

George also touched on maintenance. “NIDCO has some capacity to maintain vessels, we have been doing that with the water taxis, but we recognise that this is not merely enough. So as part of the arrangement, we went out and we got an electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer and another kind of a maintenance manager to come in and he would set up the structure to maintain not only this one but all the vessels under NIDCO’s purview.”

So as part of the arrangement, we went out and we got an electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer and another kind of a maintenance manager to come in and he would set up the structure to maintain not only this one but all the vessels under NIDCO’s purview.”

It hard to be believe a country like TT don't have them kind of engineers.

So as part of the arrangement, we went out and we got an electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer and another kind of a maintenance manager to come in and he would set up the structure to maintain not only this one but all the vessels under NIDCO’s purview.”

It hard to be believe a country like TT don't have them kind of engineers.

Worse...engineer hardly do hands on these days, they mostly design and advise, so we have to go out and get some marine craft technichians as well. We couldn't go out and get One Marine engineer and hire enough young local technicians, that they will learn and develop along with the boats (old and new). Wait, I feel it have more expenses to come, irregardless of the new boat. Maybe they should go out and get a Marine accountant...no, wait, he might ketch we putting we hands in the till...best get a local padna to do that, oui

WATSON DUKE will race a pirogue from Tobago to Trinidad to prove it can beat the ferry Galleons Passage, he vowed at a briefing yesterday.

The Public Services Association (PSA) leader was joined by maritime attorney Nyree Alfonso and dockers' unionist Michael Annisette.

In the wake of his famous partial swim from Tobago to Trinidad, Duke said in the ferry’s first week of service, he will travel by pirogue, change his clothes, then host a news briefing.

“We’ll show that a pirogue can travel the same route and reach faster than the Galleons Passage.”

Duke dubbed the ferry “a slow boat” travelling at 11 knots and taking six hours, slower than the current ferries Spirit and Express, which reach 30 knots and take 3.5 hours. He scoffed that rather than the buy the Galleons Passage, the Government should have spent those millions of dollars to buy pirogues for Tobagonians to travel to Trinidad.

Duke alleged the Government had changed its tune on the Galleons Passage’s specs: it was originally said to take 700 passengers and 100 cars, but now said to take just 400 passengers and no cars.

He alleged that for political reasons the Government had raced the boat to Tobago at a dangerously high speed of 22 knots, to do the trip in 4.5 hours.

Saying Tobagonians are not happy with the Tobago-born Prime Minister, Duke said, “You’ll get a surprise licking come 2020, because this (issue) is not going away.”

Alfonso scoffed at the government’s litigation against her as an effort to muzzle her that is doomed to fail and would in fact make her a wealthy attorney.She alleged thee had no proper procurement of ferries in recent times, and alleged the Cabo Star should have been leased for about US$12,000 per day, but TT was overpaying this cost by US$10,000. She found it astounding Dr Rowley could just walk into a shipyard in Australia and start ordering ferries, as she challenged his maritime expertise to do so and whether he had first consulted local ferry users.

Alfonso also lamented that vessels from both shipbuilders Incat and Austal will be ordered, as this would incur two different sets of spare parts and technicians.

She asked which TT expert had visited China to okay the Galleons Passage as suitable for here. Alleging unsuitability for heavy seas, she said Austal vessels work in seas with a sea scale of five, but TT waters are sea scale six.

Alfonso said all six Coast Guard vessels bought by this government are now down.

She alleged TT is paying much more to lease its water taxis than Martinique and Guadeloupe paid for similar boats . Saying the Prime Minister had spoken of corruption around the Cabo Star and Ocean Flower II, she asked what had been done about this.

“One manager went to Panama and said, ‘This boat is not suitable,’ and he was fired for his candour.”

Alfonso accused the government of ignoring the need for the right specs for the new ferry but just rushing to get one before the next general election.