Originally posted by superboy I think it will depend how far the range is. 2 person with greeat techniques won't pose to much problem to a skilled fighter with a lot more internal energy, unless it was a perfect formation. And two person with large amount of internal energy but as weak on techniques as YTZ will eventually be exposed and get beaten.

not really, look at XZ with his higher inner power, when XZ was using basic shaolin techniques(not efficient in) to fight JMZ. JMZ couldn't do anything to him, but maybe a weapon would work.

1). The person who carved the fishy shaped martial arts on the walls.
( learned by Shi Po Tian in ode to gallery)

2). Huang Shang, founder of 9 Yin.

3). Da Mo

Why would Huang Shang definitely be able to beat Sweeper?!

Assuming Huang Shang put his entire life's knowledge and essence into the 9-Yin... Then that means GJ has mastered the same skills HS has. It's has not been proven that GJ would definitely defeat Sweeper. So... why would HS do any better?

Assuming Huang Shang put his entire life's knowledge and essence into the 9-Yin... Then that means GJ has mastered the same skills HS has. It's has not been proven that GJ would definitely defeat Sweeper. So... why would HS do any better?

That's because Huang Shang INVENTED the 9 Yin, ( probably the most sought out martial arts manual in the entire Jin Yong universe ). Same logic refers to Da Mo. Yes, many have mastered the Shao Lin arts, but can they do it as well as Da Mo? No, of course not.

I remember in Condor Heroes, it was stated that the knowledge contained in 9 Yin is practically limitless. You can practice it on and on and still improve, so it would be incorrect to say that Guo Jing truely mastered the 9 Yin.

Guo Jing was never, is not, and will never be anywhere as strong as Huang Shang. Guo Jing never fully mastered the 9 Yin...... at least not to the extent that Huang Shang has.

Of course Guo Jing can't beat Sweeper. But I believe Huang Shang can. He's excluded himself from the world for 60 years focusing only on martial arts, and even prior to the meditation he was already one of the best martial artists in the world.

That's because Huang Shang INVENTED the 9 Yin, ( probably the most sought out martial arts manual in the entire Jin Yong universe ). Same logic refers to Da Mo. Yes, many have mastered the Shao Lin arts, but can they do it as well as Da Mo? No, of course not.

I remember in Condor Heroes, it was stated that the knowledge contained in 9 Yin is practically limitless. You can practice it on and on and still improve, so it would be incorrect to say that Guo Jing truely mastered the 9 Yin.

Guo Jing was never, is not, and will never be anywhere as strong as Huang Shang. Guo Jing never fully mastered the 9 Yin...... at least not to the extent that Huang Shang has.

Of course Guo Jing can't beat Sweeper. But I believe Huang Shang can. He's excluded himself from the world for 60 years focusing only on martial arts, and even prior to the meditation he was already one of the best martial artists in the world.

Inventing something doens't necessarily make you the best practitioner. Some Ming cult dude invented the QKDNY but ZWJ was able to master the skill. Being the founder doesn't always make you the better.

The 9-Yin is not the most sought after manual in the entire JY universe. It was only coveted by Martial artists in LOCH. In Ode to Gallantry, it was the Xia Ke island kung fu that was sought after. In XAJH, it was the KHBD that was most sought after. None of these manauls automatically guarantee it's practioner victory over Sweeper monk.

While it is true that 9-Yin's potential growth is limitless, it doesn't mean HS reached the highest levels when compared to GJ. First off, it took HS MANY years of meditating and compilation to create the 9-Yin. There were probably countless years spent on trial and error (much like the imperfect QKDNY). So technically, HS didn't practice the full, updated, troubleshooted 9-Yin that GJ received. GJ on the other hand has the complete, error-free, trial and tested version 5.0 of the 9-Yin in it's entirety (with the added bonus of extra techniques derived from HS's enemies such as the 9-yin bone claw and heart shatter palm). Not to mention GJ started to train this perfect version as a teenager. So by the end of ROCH, GJ also practiced 9-Yin for close to 50 years. GJ also has L/R technique, Peach blossom techniques, XL18P... all of which are 1st tier martial arts. It is very reasonable to assume that GJ has caught up to, if not exceeded HS.

Lastly, even as you mentioned that HS can be one of the best Martial artists in the world DURING his time... it doesn't mean HS is automatically stronger than Sweeper. During XAJH, DFBB was the strongest, yet it doesn't mean DFBB can guarantee a victory over Sweeper.

Just off the top of my head I would like to add that Shaolin martial arts have also been described as unlimited. Quanzhen internal energy is similarly described to improve even faster the longer you have trained it. 9 Yin does not have a monoply on that particular praise, and as has been mentioned, there are different martial arts coveted in each novel by the best in that novel.

In addition to snafu pointing out that the inventor of QKDNY only managed to practice it up to level 6 (and theorized about level 7), in ROCH itself, it was stated that Jinlun Guoshi had reached a higher level of his Dragon Elephant Prana than the creator of it.