Could I just add that I think this thread should be only for completed novels? I know how excited writers can get while writing their novels and need to know if they're going fine or not. I've been there!

But honestly, only when you have a full novel ready, will you be able to get the most out of this. Imagine you write a little bit, and want to know how it goes. You think its fine and post it up. Someone critiques it. You like it, but decide to change a few parts of it, and want it improved all over again. Now you'll have a new novel, and would want that critiqued as well.

I honestly feel that if anyone wants critiques exchanged, please have a complete novel here before you post.

I think that rule should be placed here.

Half novels, or novels that are currently being written, psuedo novels, chapters that are written on whim, can find themselves in the fiction thread. Only full novels should be here.

That's what I think. If anyone agrees, please post it up here as well.

Urntme: I do understand what you're saying, and I know that in posting what I did I'm not using this thread for precisely its original purpose.

Imagine you write a little bit, and want to know how it goes. You think its fine and post it up. Someone critiques it.

but this isn't what I'm trying to do, either.

I think that there is also something to be said for having a place to find someone willing to read more than what is easily postable on WB, but less than an entire novel. I would never want to flood the Fiction (or, because I do want to be published someday, the Members' Only) forum with all 37,000 words of my novel-in-progess. Firstly, because that would be a ton to put up, and I'd probably need to space it out over several months if not more; and secondly, because that's not the kind of feedback I'm looking for (or at least not as much). There isn't an easy way for me to get advice on how the plot is developing and if the pace is alright within WB, which, honestly, seems like why you lobbied for this thread in the first place.

Would I prefer to have a finished novel to share? Yes, obviously. And I could have waited another couple of months, until I was done. But I'm making the decision that I want to give my novel a check-up of sorts, and take some time to look back through what I have so far (I've actually written over 50,000 words, but only 37,000 is in order - the rest takes place further along) before I tie it all together.

If you want to separate out more of a "Beta-reader / critique partner for WIPs" thread and this one, I guess that might make sense, but I also think it could get confusing. To me, as long as the person who agrees to do the exchange knows that it's only a WIP, I think it's fine to have partial beta read requests here too. People can choose what they want to do, when they want to look for a beta reader, etc. If you don't want to read someone's WIP because you're concerned that they'll change everything once you give them a critique, then it's as simple as not responding to their post.

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@Sheloveswords: I'm not the one who turned this thread into a debate. The thread clearly states that this is for completed novels. It's the "Novel Exchange" thread. And you guys are posting partials. It's not a "Partials Exchange" thread. All I said was that it would be nice if people waited for a little bit, completed their novels, and then posted it instead of posting partials. I know the excitement, apprehension, and self-doubt that comes with writing a novel. But you need to get beyond those things, and write the complete thing. Only when it's done, you'll have a novel in your hands that you can fix. Otherwise you'll still have a work in progress that can go pretty much anywhere. And is really cluless and goalless.

So like I said, I'm not the one who started this debate. You guys did.

But then again, if you're accusing me of starting it, let me also say that despite my ranting, I think if you guys put up signs like "WIP" while putting up your novel exchanges, like you already have, it's great, really. And I do hope you guys get something out of those critique exchanges, if you do decide to do them. But I'm critical about it, and I feel if you don't have a complete novel in your hand, you're going to end up having a "novel mush" with which you're not going to know what to do with, and you're not going to like it.

I think there's no harm in exchanging a WIP. Then you can fix issues you're worried about before moving on. If I had exchanged my WIP when I really started to struggle with it, I wouldn't have nearly as much editing to do as I have now. In fact, I ended up with a complete rewrite on my hands because of it. As long as both parties agree, an exchange is an exchange. If you want to insist on sticking to the exact rules of the thread, maybe we could start a new one for works in progress.

As for me, I love the idea. I'm going to PM Titania right now. =)

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One of the reasons for having someone outside your immediate circle to read your work is to learn what you've missed during writing it.

I had one beta reader from Britian who highlighted a whole lot of little things I never saw. Now, I have another who's a history buff who's pointing out things we both missed.

And finally, as my other recent post shows, there are TONS of little items I never saw/knew or realized the importance of.

Example - the constant intrigue and difficulties among the Spanish of who was in charge and their social standing. I never fully understood the meaning or source of the word Creole until researching the Spanish in the New World. Now, I have to include that in my novel as it played a very important role in the main them.

I think the meaning of "completed" novel in this context, is simply that a complete 1st draft is written. That the beta reader can read the story from start to finish. It doesn't mean it's literally completed in its final draft, otherwise there would be no point beta reading it! :-)

I have been more of a 'lurker' - checking the forums and reading but not posting often. But I have a problem and this forum came to mind for a solution. I have completed my 1st novel...and I am in dire need of honest feedback and editing advice. Here is the info:

Synopsis - The Gods of Terreth are trapped in an alternate realm and only the Chosen One can free them. Unfortunately, the forces of darkness know the prophecy also and are moving to neutralize it. When an Elven Princess gets captured and raped, a lone Highlander rescues her and embarks on a grand adventure that leads the lovers across the Highlands and into the Spirit Realm. Outnumbered and running out of time, will the two survive long enough for the Chosen One to be born?

What kind of feedback you'd like - just about anything; from plotline and pacing to dialogue and characterization. However, I want complete honesty and ruthlessness when needed.

What you're willing to do/read - I have a wide range of likes, but perfer Fantasy, Sci-Fi and Thrillers.

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Well, I can think of two other people who're looking for feedback currently. Owen, and Sheloveswords.

First come, first serve?

@ Ivcabbie and Owen: I think there is such a thing as a complete novel. Just that there's no such thing as a "perfect" novel. We can always keep improving our novels as and when we choose because a novel will never be perfect. There's always ways to improve it. Same as it is in any creative field. There are always ways to improve a movie, or a play or whatever.

But a complete novel? A complete novel is one that tells a complete story. From start to finish. It ties in all the plot lines that it set out to tie in. Partials are incomplete novels.

How about you guys just stop the bickering and allow both WIP's and completed novels? The point of the thread is to allow authors to help each other out. And if that is what's happening, whether it be a WIP or a completed piece, does it even matter?

Answer: no

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"If you don't have time to read, you don't have the time (or the tools) to write. Simple as that." - Stephen King

Anaiiya always believed she was human—until the mad queen sent mercenaries to attack the city's gargoyle tribe, and Anaiiya found herself covered in blood with no memory of how she killed the thirty men scattered all around her.

Now the gargoyles, monstrous-looking warriors incapacitated by sunlight, depend on Anaiiya to protect them during the day. But her demonic heritage, dormant for over twenty years, stirs to life at her first taste of bloodshed and fills Anaiiya with an ever-increasing lust for violence. If she loses control of these bloodthirsty compulsions, she might kill her new family herself.

She battles against her own nature even as it grants her strange powers that make it easier to defend her beloved gargoyles. Stone crumbles into powder at her touch. Blood obeys her every command and the river boils when she sings. But each time she uses these abilities, the darkness within grows a little stronger and the violent urges a little harder to resist.

When a power-hungry demon takes notice of her gifts, he uses the gargoyles as pawns to try to steal those powers for himself. Now Anaiiya's only hope to save her family from monsters may be to become one—if the darkness within her doesn't destroy them first.

Feedback: I would like in-depth feedback from other good writers. I'm concerned that some scenes may be a tad 'info-dumpy,' and that I 'echo' (use the same/similar words too close together. But I'm so sick of looking at my MS by now that I can't think about it anymore. My husband's glowing praise only helps so much, lol.

What I'm willing to do/read: I'm willing to try a short swap first; see if we like each other's writing style, storyline, etc. I give in-depth, line-by-line critiques, and I'm very honest. No one has ever said I'm mean, but I'm blunt. If your story doesn't make sense or I don't like your sentence structure, I'll say so. I think we all have enough cheerleaders. We need better from our peers who are 'in the biz' and trying to get published. I'm also the grammar police. FYI.

I like fantasy (most kinds) and horror, and some sci-fi...if it's not too much of a science/technology-based plot. I can even dig a little paranormal romance, as long as it's not too Twilight-esque. YA is ok as long as it's also not too angsty. Send me a PM or respond to this thread, whatever, and we can do a little swap.

Or, as some have indicated, if you'd like to just read my book without sending me anything to crit back...I'm cool with that, too. Just let me know how much you want to read.

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Beckahrah[sp?] I like this - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
it's the theme of a fantasy/scifi novel I wrote - mideveal characters overseen by super-advanced beings.

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Genre: Romance, but I'd like a little input on that. I wonder if it reads like YA. There are sex scenes that I'm concerned went too far.

Synopsis:
Melissa Quinn had the perfect life for a teenage girl. She finally gained popularity, is on the cheerleading squad at Gloucester High, and just started dating Sandy Bavetta the handsome football star. Sandy has more experience than Mel and moves a little too fast for her. Then she finds out Sandy kissed another girl.
Confused and angry Mel begins to make one wrong decision after another.
Mel doesn’t realize she’s being studied by Arien Cary. When they are introduced, Arien already knows enough about her to enchant and manipulate Mel into believing that they are meant to be. Sandy is broken hearted and fights for Mel as she changes into someone he no longer recognizes.
Mellifica is a novel that shows how a girl conquers her ego to learn empathy and love.
Feedback: Point out major errors and plot slips. Comment on pacing and character development.
Trade off: Willing to do the same, in a similar genre. I light amount of fantasy is okay (I love the mortal instruments) But romance as the main plot is what pulls my interest. I don't mind R or even X rated material. PM me, and let's work together!
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Reading and writing and reading and thinking, in search of a reason, and missing the seasons. The autumn, the spring, the summer the snow...

Yay! I'm so glad I was pointed to this thread! This is -exactly- what I'm looking for.

My little gem is also unfinished, but I have the ending in sight. I'm saving it for when I finish re-writing .. um, the whole rest of it.

So, here's my spiel.

Title: BadbloodGenre: Supernatural fantasy, trying to make it more suspenseful General plot: People seem to think I got inspiration from Lovecraft, even though I've never read his work. (Please don't ostracize me..!)
The story begins outside of Kanaktris, a bustling trade capital and spiritual hub, when a princess (Shirrah) is kidnapped. Her ransom is her native town, Rath (name-change pending, probably), but her kidnapper appears to have higher motives than simple conquering. Shirrah attempts to bargain with her captor, but when a supposedly-deceased deity enters the picture, she realizes she may have much more to worry about than she first expected. Length: 50k words, WIP

Feedback I'm looking for: The productive kind. I need to flesh out a couple of characters in more detail, touch up my voice, and get into scenery. I'm also looking to skill up on suspense, so any tips you may have there would be greatly appreciated. PoVs are a common pain in my hiney, I can't seem to figure out how to transition smoothly.

Feedback I'll provide: Please don't ask me to read anything with a werewolf in it. I would LOVE a gritty vampire tale (wtf is this Twilight crap?) but I'm not horribly picky. I've been out of practice for a while, but I will put my sincerest penstrokes into critiquing your work.

Edit: I'm not looking to get published, but I'd like to "finish" this novel at some point before I'm old.

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Last edited by icreatedseth; 05-29-2011 at 06:38 PM..
Reason: forgot to add a thing

Mine isn't finished either, and I'm trying to decide whether or not I should continue with it. For some reason I hate the way I set up the plot. But I'd like advice, and it's longer than an excerpt, so....

Title: It's the Thought That CountsLength: What I'd send would be 18,713 words. Short, I know...Genre: Sci-fi I guess. Blurb:
Rayna is a 16 year old girl who moved to Baker City, Oregon two years ago when her mother passed away. Relationships with her dad have been tight since then, but improve just before she and her father get into a bad car accident. She wakes up in the hospital to find her dad dying and the doctors trying to convince her to let them perform a new operation to repair the brain damage she has acquired. They plant a genetically enhanced cancer that allows them to manipulate her thoughts and actions. And the doctors may use her for some political plot.

If someone would be willing to critique this, then PM me please. As a side note, the cancer isn't explained yet since it'll come farther into the story. And the romance/romantic thoughts at the end are...well, not good, I know.

book title: Ryan Eowyn and the Necklace of Tears
length: 12,000 words (incomplete)
genre: YA fantasy
what kind of feedback you'd like: Any feedback
what you're willing to do/read: I'd be willing to read one of your pieces. Quid pro Quo type thing.

I'm basically trying to decide if this novel is worth finishing or deserves a complete rewrite or reworking. Also looking for someone who has a critical eye to examine where, particularly near the end of my draft, what I can do to pull it together a little bit.

book title - Devastated length - 92K wordsgenre (can be a blurb) - Non-Fictionwhat kind of feedback you'd like - I would like a content editor. Does it flow like it should? Are parts too descriptive, or not enough? etc., etc.what you're willing to do/read - I would be willing to read someone else's book. I just don't like science fiction or horror stuff. Show me yours and I'll show you mine!

I guess I should put a blurb in there with what my book is about. Here is a general description:

As a single mother of two young boys, while living with my father, I was faced with the life-changing decision to turn him in to the police for possession of child pornography and molestation of a four year old neighbor girl. I am a firm believer that all children deserve to be protected, even if it’s from your own family member. The following is the true story of my descent into and back out of the hell that came about from this explosive discovery.

I would like to invite any serious authors to consider a proposition to exchange a completed manuscript with me for mutual in depth reviews. The first point to address would be genre; I have a light science fiction novel undergoing it's final draft, which will be ready in two-four weeks. I would like a sci fi fan to analyze it for obvious reasons. I myself read classic-style sci fi, detective, and espionage genres. I want this to be a good fit for both parties.

What I am interested in is a temporary structured relationship with the following ground rules:

1) Novels are completed and believed nearly ready for publication, drafted at least three times if necessary.

2) Bookcover blurbs are finished

3) An organized system be established for a chapter-by-chapter analyisis, as well as plot and character development. Nothing complicated; I suggest that I could draw up an ad hoc checklist and submit it to the other party for ammendment.

This proposition is made with the intent that both parties have their novels published within the next 12 months.

Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going. So impressed with the posts on here! In a rare visit back to WB I thought I'd check what's been happening.

Here's a new addition for you:

Book Title - The Chamber of Purple Chaos

Length - 97,000 words

Genre - Sci-fi mystery thriller set in modern day.

What kind of feedback I'd like - Honest and instinctive reaction. Be as harsh as you like. As much or as little detail as you want.

What I'm willing to do/read - Novel-length adult oriented fiction completed at least to 1st draft. No fantasy (dragons, wizards etc) and no vampires. I have an allergic reaction to those. Everyone else is welcome...