It goes back to the firing of Rob Chudzinski and his staff after one disappointing season. Totally outrageous. A complete repudiation of what owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner professed to stand for. Stability? Out the window. Credibility? Shot.

Lurking behind the curtain is Mike Lombardi. His role in this abject mess can not be discounted. Lombardi holds the title of general manager, yet he is strangely protected like a juvenile from media interrogation by Haslam and Banner. Lombardi is absolutely brilliant at evading accountability and transferring blame to coaches.

How long can Lombardi live off the no-risk, low-money pickup of a quarterback, Brian Hoyer, who won two games? What about Mingo, Bess, Kruger, Bryant, Owens? Don’t they count on his record? What about the receiver they signed from Green Bay who showed up with a torn ACL and took up a roster space for three weeks? Who took the fall for that whopper -- receivers coach Scott Turner?

Whose brilliant idea was it to load up the roster with five tight ends and 12 offensive linemen and not a single running back who could move the ball from here to there? Must have been offensive coordinator Norv Turner.

The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.

SoulDawg74 wrote:http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49& action=blog&r=17&post_id=27371It goes back to the firing of Rob Chudzinski and his staff after one disappointing season. Totally outrageous. A complete repudiation of what owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner professed to stand for. Stability? Out the window. Credibility? Shot.Lurking behind the curtain is Mike Lombardi. His role in this abject mess can not be discounted. Lombardi holds the title of general manager, yet he is strangely protected like a juvenile from media interrogation by Haslam and Banner. Lombardi is absolutely brilliant at evading accountability and transferring blame to coaches.How long can Lombardi live off the no-risk, low-money pickup of a quarterback, Brian Hoyer, who won two games? What about Mingo, Bess, Kruger, Bryant, Owens? Don’t they count on his record? What about the receiver they signed from Green Bay who showed up with a torn ACL and took up a roster space for three weeks? Who took the fall for that whopper -- receivers coach Scott Turner?Whose brilliant idea was it to load up the roster with five tight ends and 12 offensive linemen and not a single running back who could move the ball from here to there? Must have been offensive coordinator Norv Turner.The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

I'm going to play devils advocate for a moment, but does anyone really know what Lombardi even does...? I get the sense he is no more then a glorified head scout given the title of GM so he gets a higher salary, and aside from his opinion how much is he really even involved in the coach search?

You say that

SoulDawg74 wrote: The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

Where do you get that? Because all I been reading/seeing from the fans and the media is that they are 100% to blame, and Chud was just the scapegoat. What would you have Haslam do (assuming as owner he is the 1 guy you cant get rid of)? Fire Banner, Lombardi, and Chud after one season? Wouldn't that have looked like a even worse cluster fuck, as opposed to just firing a coach no one was really thrilled about in the first place?

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

SoulDawg74 wrote:http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49& action=blog&r=17&post_id=27371It goes back to the firing of Rob Chudzinski and his staff after one disappointing season. Totally outrageous. A complete repudiation of what owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner professed to stand for. Stability? Out the window. Credibility? Shot.Lurking behind the curtain is Mike Lombardi. His role in this abject mess can not be discounted. Lombardi holds the title of general manager, yet he is strangely protected like a juvenile from media interrogation by Haslam and Banner. Lombardi is absolutely brilliant at evading accountability and transferring blame to coaches.How long can Lombardi live off the no-risk, low-money pickup of a quarterback, Brian Hoyer, who won two games? What about Mingo, Bess, Kruger, Bryant, Owens? Don’t they count on his record? What about the receiver they signed from Green Bay who showed up with a torn ACL and took up a roster space for three weeks? Who took the fall for that whopper -- receivers coach Scott Turner?Whose brilliant idea was it to load up the roster with five tight ends and 12 offensive linemen and not a single running back who could move the ball from here to there? Must have been offensive coordinator Norv Turner.The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

I'm going to play devils advocate for a moment, but does anyone really know what Lombardi even does...? I get the sense he is no more then a glorified head scout given the title of GM so he gets a higher salary, and aside from his opinion how much is he really even involved in the coach search?

You say that

SoulDawg74 wrote: The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

Where do you get that? Because all I been reading/seeing from the fans and the media is that they are 100% to blame, and Chud was just the scapegoat. What would you have Haslam do (assuming as owner he is the 1 guy you cant get rid of)? Fire Banner, Lombardi, and Chud after one season? Wouldn't that have looked like a even worse cluster fuck, as opposed to just firing a coach no one was really thrilled about in the first place?

SD:

Don't know how old you are , but the old school goes.

When a student fails so does the teacher.

If your not picking up the fact , they hung this cat out to dry , I don't know what to tell ya .

SoulDawg74 wrote:http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49& action=blog&r=17&post_id=27371It goes back to the firing of Rob Chudzinski and his staff after one disappointing season. Totally outrageous. A complete repudiation of what owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner professed to stand for. Stability? Out the window. Credibility? Shot.Lurking behind the curtain is Mike Lombardi. His role in this abject mess can not be discounted. Lombardi holds the title of general manager, yet he is strangely protected like a juvenile from media interrogation by Haslam and Banner. Lombardi is absolutely brilliant at evading accountability and transferring blame to coaches.How long can Lombardi live off the no-risk, low-money pickup of a quarterback, Brian Hoyer, who won two games? What about Mingo, Bess, Kruger, Bryant, Owens? Don’t they count on his record? What about the receiver they signed from Green Bay who showed up with a torn ACL and took up a roster space for three weeks? Who took the fall for that whopper -- receivers coach Scott Turner?Whose brilliant idea was it to load up the roster with five tight ends and 12 offensive linemen and not a single running back who could move the ball from here to there? Must have been offensive coordinator Norv Turner.The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

I'm going to play devils advocate for a moment, but does anyone really know what Lombardi even does...? I get the sense he is no more then a glorified head scout given the title of GM so he gets a higher salary, and aside from his opinion how much is he really even involved in the coach search?

You say that

SoulDawg74 wrote: The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

Where do you get that? Because all I been reading/seeing from the fans and the media is that they are 100% to blame, and Chud was just the scapegoat. What would you have Haslam do (assuming as owner he is the 1 guy you cant get rid of)? Fire Banner, Lombardi, and Chud after one season? Wouldn't that have looked like a even worse cluster fuck, as opposed to just firing a coach no one was really thrilled about in the first place?

SD:

Don't know how old you are , but the old school goes.

When a student fails so does the teacher.

If your not picking up the fact , they hung this cat out to dry , I don't know what to tell ya .

SoulDawg

Fine they are shitty people and they hung poor Chudsky out to dry. Why who knows for sure. Maybe they saw Chuds ceiling, maybe they didnt like the way he was coaching up the youth of the team, or maybe it was as simple as they felt they could make a improvement, and your right by hiring Chud the teachers did fail, they failed up to the tune of $10.5 mil, and massive public backlash (which they had to know would follow) that's how strongly they felt about their failure, and the need to correct it. If Chud deserved another shot after one year, then why doesn't the same hold true for Banner and Lombardi?

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Grossi's dislike of Lombardi notwithstanding, if there was no insubordination by Chud going on behind the scenes this past season, his firing was witless. Banner should've kept him and concentrated his off-season "search" mechanisms on finding a QB, RB, WR, CB and ILB instead of a new head coach. In other words, actually try to HELP Chud win more games rather than tanking the season, which is what the FO obviously did, starting with last year's draft.

Got to hope Jimmy has just about had his fill. To many fans (myself obviously included), Banner seems to be a dysfunctional incompetent while Lombardi seems merely lost in space, a man without a function, in the great scheme of things.

Be good enough to hold 4th quarter leads in 7 games, but unable to execute good enough to hold on.

Will they get this hire correct? I don't know.Did they get the Chud hire correct? Doubt it.

And Lombardi has the GM title for one reason. To give Ray Farmer an assistant GM title which was a promotion to get him away from GB. Only in Cleveland would people complain about not getting to hear from a subordinate, when it is that guy's boss you are hearing from.

God damn it, I want interviews with the OL Coach. The Head Coach just isn't cutting it. What is he hiding from?

So we're in the middle of a nuclear meltdown and Grossi is worried that the cafeteria menu doesn't have gluten free options? Banner is the root of all evil. Lombardi is a dangerous scumbag, certainly. But he's a sideshow.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

This is ridiculous. On February 3rd The Stooges will announce the hiring of their new Curly Joe which will underwhelm the oh so jaded Clown fan base and send shock waves across the Twitter-verse and the Message board galaxy. The dignitaries of the various blogs will weigh in meaningfully and on December 29, 2014 it will all start anew after the usual 4-6 win campaign and the usual drillings from the Steelers with their new QB, Johnny Steeltown in tow.

SoulDawg74 wrote: The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

Where do you get that? Because all I been reading/seeing from the fans and the media is that they are 100% to blame, and Chud was just the scapegoat. What would you have Haslam do (assuming as owner he is the 1 guy you cant get rid of)? Fire Banner, Lombardi, and Chud after one season? Wouldn't that have looked like a even worse cluster fuck, as opposed to just firing a coach no one was really thrilled about in the first place?

They aren't holding themselves accountable, that's the issue.

And, no, firing Banner and Lombardi isn't a worse cluster fuck since they're the main reason no one wants to come here.

If you want to eradicate cancer, you go to the source, not chop off a toe.

Sadly, the source is probably Haslam, and you can't get rid of him. So I'll settle for nuking as much of the cancer as possible.

SoulDawg74 wrote: The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

Where do you get that? Because all I been reading/seeing from the fans and the media is that they are 100% to blame, and Chud was just the scapegoat. What would you have Haslam do (assuming as owner he is the 1 guy you cant get rid of)? Fire Banner, Lombardi, and Chud after one season? Wouldn't that have looked like a even worse cluster fuck, as opposed to just firing a coach no one was really thrilled about in the first place?

They aren't holding themselves accountable, that's the issue.

And, no, firing Banner and Lombardi isn't a worse cluster fuck since they're the main reason no one wants to come here.

If you want to eradicate cancer, you go to the source, not chop off a toe.

Sadly, the source is probably Haslam, and you can't get rid of him. So I'll settle for nuking as much of the cancer as possible.

What would holding themselves accountable look like? And how would it differ from what we're seeing.

The Lombardi things stems from him being a weasel and a scumbag in his first stint with the old Browns, and I'm sure there's something personal there.

That being said, having spent seven years as a reporter, that doesn't mean Grossi has an agenda. It does mean Grossi absolutely, positively, will NOT give Lombardi the benefit of the doubt.

Is Grossi off-base with this latest rant? Perhaps, but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

Remember, Lombardi continued to have a rep of being a scumbag jagoff after he left Cleveland. Five years out of the league working for the Network despite his repeated claims what a "good friend" Bill Belichick was. Why no job from Bill in that time?

SoulDawg74 wrote: The fact is, Haslam went 4-12 in his first year as owner, Banner went 4-12 in his first year as CEO and Lombardi went 4-12 in his first year as GM. Yet none of them bears responsibility for the record.SoulDawg

Where do you get that? Because all I been reading/seeing from the fans and the media is that they are 100% to blame, and Chud was just the scapegoat. What would you have Haslam do (assuming as owner he is the 1 guy you cant get rid of)? Fire Banner, Lombardi, and Chud after one season? Wouldn't that have looked like a even worse cluster fuck, as opposed to just firing a coach no one was really thrilled about in the first place?

They aren't holding themselves accountable, that's the issue.

And, no, firing Banner and Lombardi isn't a worse cluster fuck since they're the main reason no one wants to come here.

If you want to eradicate cancer, you go to the source, not chop off a toe.

Sadly, the source is probably Haslam, and you can't get rid of him. So I'll settle for nuking as much of the cancer as possible.

That may be your opinion , but I have a very hard time believing that the public opinion wouldnt be far worse if Haslem would have fired all three as opposed to just Chud after only one season. For starters there is a precident for shit-canning a coach in the NFL after one season, I think its happend 7 times in the last decade alone , but replacing a whole front office after one season , I doubt that has ever happend, at least in the modern era.The perception is because of the way we treated Chud we cant get any good coaches to come here (I dont nessicarly agree with this). Imagine if we fired a president, generally speaking these are already wealthy people who in theory have options outside of the NFL to make their living, and its trickle down from there as far as the rest of the front office goes.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Hikohadon wrote:And, no, firing Banner and Lombardi isn't a worse cluster fuck since they're the main reason no one wants to come here.

If you want to eradicate cancer, you go to the source, not chop off a toe.

Sadly, the source is probably Haslam, and you can't get rid of him. So I'll settle for nuking as much of the cancer as possible.

That may be your opinion , but I have a very hard time believing that the public opinion wouldnt be far worse if Haslem would have fired all three as opposed to just Chud after only one season. For starters there is a precident for shit-canning a coach in the NFL after one season, I think its happend 7 times in the last decade alone , but replacing a whole front office after one season , I doubt that has ever happend, at least in the modern era.The perception is because of the way we treated Chud we cant get any good coaches to come here (I dont nessicarly agree with this). Imagine if we fired a president, generally speaking these are already wealthy people who in theory have options outside of the NFL to make their living, and its trickle down from there as far as the rest of the front office goes.

I'm not sure how the negative perception of a clean sweep of all the fuck ups would be worse than the perception that the FO is populated with men that NO ONE wants to work for.

Banner had a bad rep when he came in here. Lombardi's was worse. Then they turn around, have a terrible offseason, the team goes 4-12, and they fire the coach after one year. Coaching candidates know that 1) that sure as hell looks like a bad place to work, especially with the rep that those guys had and ENHANCED by throwing the last coach under the bus and 2) Haslam isn't necessarily married to these guys, and if things go south again (which they very well could with these guys running the show), they might likely be out the door. If that's the case, then Haslam hires a new GM, and that raises a TON of questions for coaches.

So, the front office is deemed both incompetent AND unstable.

Even if the job looks enticing on paper for coaching candidates, they might be apt to sit tight for a year and wait for Banner & Lombardi to be shown the door and then embrace the opportunity in 2015 (which might include more personnel power for them than under Banner, and at the very least would mean not having to work with Banner & Lombardi and have them drag you down into the swamp of suck.)

Obviously it's just my opinion, but if you believe that Banner & Lombardi will make a weak hire (or at least make it hard for the hire to succeed), will have another poor draft and free agency period, and will field another team destined for 6-10 at best (which I do, all three), then you are simply wasting a year keeping these guys on.

Hikohadon wrote:And, no, firing Banner and Lombardi isn't a worse cluster fuck since they're the main reason no one wants to come here.

If you want to eradicate cancer, you go to the source, not chop off a toe.

Sadly, the source is probably Haslam, and you can't get rid of him. So I'll settle for nuking as much of the cancer as possible.

That may be your opinion , but I have a very hard time believing that the public opinion wouldnt be far worse if Haslem would have fired all three as opposed to just Chud after only one season. For starters there is a precident for shit-canning a coach in the NFL after one season, I think its happend 7 times in the last decade alone , but replacing a whole front office after one season , I doubt that has ever happend, at least in the modern era.The perception is because of the way we treated Chud we cant get any good coaches to come here (I dont nessicarly agree with this). Imagine if we fired a president, generally speaking these are already wealthy people who in theory have options outside of the NFL to make their living, and its trickle down from there as far as the rest of the front office goes.

I'm not sure how the negative perception of a clean sweep of all the fuck ups would be worse than the perception that the FO is populated with men that NO ONE wants to work for.

Banner had a bad rep when he came in here. Lombardi's was worse. Then they turn around, have a terrible offseason, the team goes 4-12, and they fire the coach after one year. Coaching candidates know that 1) that sure as hell looks like a bad place to work, especially with the rep that those guys had and ENHANCED by throwing the last coach under the bus and 2) Haslam isn't necessarily married to these guys, and if things go south again (which they very well could with these guys running the show), they might likely be out the door. If that's the case, then Haslam hires a new GM, and that raises a TON of questions for coaches.

So, the front office is deemed both incompetent AND unstable.

Even if the job looks enticing on paper for coaching candidates, they might be apt to sit tight for a year and wait for Banner & Lombardi to be shown the door and then embrace the opportunity in 2015 (which might include more personnel power for them than under Banner, and at the very least would mean not having to work with Banner & Lombardi and have them drag you down into the swamp of suck.)

Obviously it's just my opinion, but if you believe that Banner & Lombardi will make a weak hire (or at least make it hard for the hire to succeed), will have another poor draft and free agency period, and will field another team destined for 6-10 at best (which I do, all three), then you are simply wasting a year keeping these guys on.

How's the end of that Sex Pistols song about the Queen go...?

Well your probibly only a year or two away from geting your wish of the complete nukeing. Every thing with the exception of the coaching hiccup that Banner and Lombardo has done the past year and a half has led up to this offseason. Its probibly the main thing Banner sold Haslem on when he got the job, and convinced him to pay Lombardi. With all the cap space, draft picks, and now a HC search, the spotlight is shinning bright on old troll face, and judging by that press conference a few weeks ago Haslem expects a big turn around, like a 9 win or bust turn around. Either way when you combine it all together this will likely be the most entertaining Browns offseason in more then a decade, if not ever, and I for one cant wait to see how it all unfolds , even if it does end up being a massive trainwreck.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Govbarney wrote:Well your probibly only a year or two away from geting your wish of the complete nukeing. Every thing with the exception of the coaching hiccup that Banner and Lombardo has done the past year and a half has led up to this offseason. Its probibly the main thing Banner sold Haslem on when he got the job, and convinced him to pay Lombardi. With all the cap space, draft picks, and now a HC search, the spotlight is shinning bright on old troll face, and judging by that press conference a few weeks ago Haslem expects a big turn around, like a 9 win or bust turn around. Either way when you combine it all together this will likely be the most entertaining Browns offseason in more then a decade, if not ever, and I for one cant wait to see how it all unfolds , even if it does end up being a massive trainwreck.

I think the odds on an entertaining train wreck are much higher than an entertaining playoff-contending team, but they would be an entertaining train wreck Banner or no Banner. So if you figure that Banner/Lombardi will be shown the door in a year or two anyway, why nuke one or two years?

I mean, look at the draft. We are loaded in this year's draft. And look who we're leaving it to!

Remember when we had three 2nd rounders and we left those decisions to Mangini? That was only 4 or 5 years ago, and I'm not sure if any of those guys are still alive, much less in the NFL.

The draft is still like 4 months away. It's not too late (it probably is, but I digress) to save it. Or at least not shoot it in the head upon birth.

Hikohadon wrote:I think the odds on an entertaining train wreck are much higher than an entertaining playoff-contending team, but they would be an entertaining train wreck Banner or no Banner. So if you figure that Banner/Lombardi will be shown the door in a year or two anyway, why nuke one or two years?I mean, look at the draft. We are loaded in this year's draft. And look who we're leaving it to!Remember when we had three 2nd rounders and we left those decisions to Mangini? That was only 4 or 5 years ago, and I'm not sure if any of those guys are still alive, much less in the NFL.The draft is still like 4 months away. It's not too late (it probably is, but I digress) to save it. Or at least not shoot it in the head upon birth.

I dont know, I am not as doom and gloom as you are, I really wasnt all that displeased with what they aquired in talent last year. D. Bryant was good until he got hurt, I was pleasently suprised with Groves, Hoyer showed promis, Mingo is work in progess but there is allot to like, I think Dion Lewis will pay off in the long run, and the the trade of TRich may turn out to be the steal of the year. Sure you have some misses (Bess, Mcfadden, Kruger (maybe)), but your going to get that with anyteam... eitherway Id say it was a C+ with a possibility of a solid B depending on how Mingo's Sophmore campaign works out, what we see in Dion Lewis and if Hoyer is a future option at QB (as either a backup or starter). With all the Cap space and draft picks if we are able to pull off another C+ or B- offseason this team could finally have enough talent to at least be mediocre.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Hikohadon wrote:I think the odds on an entertaining train wreck are much higher than an entertaining playoff-contending team, but they would be an entertaining train wreck Banner or no Banner. So if you figure that Banner/Lombardi will be shown the door in a year or two anyway, why nuke one or two years?I mean, look at the draft. We are loaded in this year's draft. And look who we're leaving it to!Remember when we had three 2nd rounders and we left those decisions to Mangini? That was only 4 or 5 years ago, and I'm not sure if any of those guys are still alive, much less in the NFL.The draft is still like 4 months away. It's not too late (it probably is, but I digress) to save it. Or at least not shoot it in the head upon birth.

I dont know, I am not as doom and gloom as you are, I really wasnt all that displeased with what they aquired in talent last year. D. Bryant was good until he got hurt, I was pleasently suprised with Groves, Hoyer showed promis, Mingo is work in progess but there is allot to like, I think Dion Lewis will pay off in the long run, and the the trade of TRich may turn out to be the steal of the year. Sure you have some misses (Bess, Mcfadden, Kruger (maybe)), but your going to get that with anyteam... eitherway Id say it was a C+ with a possibility of a solid B depending on how Mingo's Sophmore campaign works out, what we see in Dion Lewis and if Hoyer is a future option at QB (as either a backup or starter). With all the Cap space and draft picks if we are able to pull off another C+ or B- offseason this team could finally have enough talent to at least be mediocre.

I see no benefit to taking a shit on that take, especially since logically that might be true.

Things indeed might be different had those players stayed healthy, and Mingo indeed might evolve. If the FO truly thought injuries derailed their valiant efforts, makes you wonder why they had to stuff Chud in the chipper, but that's irrelevant, really.

I've just had a massive "hurricane a-comin" feeling since the rumors that Jimmy was married to Banner came true, and find it impossible to muster up hope for a situation that every fiber of my being feels is hopeless. Banner was bad news by himself, and then he did what everyone prayed he wouldn't do and brought in Lombardi, squaring the bad news. They've got a deep hole to climb out of to earn respect, league wide and with this fan base.