Trouble logging in?If you can't remember your password or are having trouble logging in, you will have to reset your password. If you have trouble resetting your password (for example, if you lost access to the original email address), please do not start posting with a new account, as this is against the forum rules. If you create a temporary account, please contact us right away via Forum Support, and send us any information you can about your original account, such as the account name and any email address that may have been associated with it.

What "few other people"? It looks to me like in every FT, the number of people in the mansion beside the FT victims is very slim. Suspiciously, they tend to live long after the FT, often, all the way to the end.

It would be trivial to take out Natsuhi in ep1 or Gohda in ep2. One could follow George and Shannon out to the arbor and get them there (assuming one or both aren't the killers themselves, anyway). When Kanon runs off to do something (if he's not another person), kill him on the evening of the 4th, before anybody goes to bed. People seem accustomed to him being off on his own. If murder is your goal and you're not intentionally following the epitaph, why are you waiting or arbitrarily restricting your victim count?

Of course this assumes the killer intends to kill everybody. But the only way to explain away the different patterns is different motives, which implies different killers.

What "few other people"? It looks to me like in every FT, the number of people in the mansion beside the FT victims is very slim. Suspiciously, they tend to live long after the FT, often, all the way to the end.

I'm pretty sure The Dining Hall is in the mansion. In episode 3 the Adults had their discussion there for the whole night. So I don't think that's really true.

If murder is your goal and you're not intentionally following the epitaph, why are you waiting or arbitrarily restricting your victim count?

Of course this assumes the killer intends to kill everybody. But the only way to explain away the different patterns is different motives, which implies different killers.

And why not?...

Assuming that the murders are connected with the epitaph at all creates a motive to kill everyone, which, while initially it sounds plausible, is inherently dubious. But the plot continues with removing the central 19th-person culprit who would have such a motive, the opportunity for anyone to perform all the murders, the precision in following the epitaph... That actually leaves any global motive undefined, well, what if there isn't any?

If your goal is an opportunistic single murder only, killing the other FFT victims makes a lot of sense, because otherwise you can be discovered by your motive - you basically hide your single real victim among four or five other corpses that you know can all be pinned on the FFT organiser. This is where a rational murderer with such a motive should actually stop and pretend they're innocent!

Subsequent murders can then be the result of removing witnesses who turn up, internal conflicts and accusations in the FFT group, paranoia...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judoh

I'm pretty sure The Dining Hall is in the mansion. In episode 3 the Adults had their discussion there for the whole night. So I don't think that's really true.

In Ep3, nobody is confirmed to be dead until the morning either, and the most likely theory involves the murders happening immediately after the discovery of the bodies. Adults are alert and move as a group after having seen the seals, so I don't see many opportunities to add any extra victims to the list.

__________________

"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

I doubt the killer in the fourth game is following any epitaph though. Really, the only thing that even vaguely suggests it is the 6 people shot in the dining room, and even then there are actually 7 corpses found there. Also, the two who are close... who are they? George and Jessica? Kumasawa and Gohda? None of them seem to work very well. Not to mention the stakes which just seem to have been carelessly stuck into heads...

This is actually a problem that applies to the epitaph solution from the riddle standpoint.

Wait. quadrillion-qilian => u dr l o

Let us assume that "those who remain" must "tear apart those who are close", so that a permutation is needed and only permutations in which D and R are apart with at least one of the remaining letters between them are valid. Well, I just made a list of all of them and here's the only one that makes any sense. In fact, it's the only sequence beside "Lord U" that seems to make any sense.

RUDOL => Rudolf.

What does his name sound when written out as romaji, again?

__________________

"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

"No wonder he thought he was going to die. Well, it's a good thing you didn't kill him then."

*spends a few minutes laughing before replying*

Well, that would make sense, wouldn't it? Rudolf got to the 'tear apart' step, then decided he's definitely not going further because of noticing his name in it and getting Seriously Worried. Now Beatrice Letter demands the epitaph be solved...

Of course he would expect to die now...

__________________

"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

Err, if the question about Rudolf's pronunciation was a serious question, it would be sound like Rudorufu.

It sort of was. You never know with these people.

Seriously, I really couldn't find any other readable permutation. Though one other possibility remains... that "to lift up" means something other than just remove, and the lifted letters are to be used in between D and R.

Though that probably isn't it. A word that starts with UD is rare enough, but one that also ends with RLO, I don't think there's any in English or Japanese.

__________________

"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

Well on the second twilight, you only have two kill one person to split/tear him/her from a close person.
For finding the gold, yea it is likely some weird mechanism where you have to take two things apart.
I don't know how hard you are grading the killer on his/her job but the killings seem to be of opportunity and not just for the epitaph. The fact that it all fits is sheer luck.
Like, let's say Kanon and Jessica for episode 2. The letter to provoke one of the children, it could have been Battler or George also due to the letter's ambiguity, was found by Jessica. So, she was left behind with Kanon. If George was there, then he would have been split from Shanon? Who may or may not have been there with him. What about Battler? He's got no one, except his parents really. What if you say parents are close? Then we could say it is easier to nail the second twilight.

Ok, so those possibilities are highly unlikely. So IF Rudol is the only reasonable permutation left, what could it mean? The only thing I could think of is that Rudolph was somehow made the trustee for that inheritance situation you described before Oliver prior to the game starting and therefore what the epitaph does is determine a heir and reveals who the heir should go to for the inheritance. Also would explain why he tends to die first IF he chooses to reveal that he is the trustee during the FT but refuses to bestow the inheritance.

Course this is all a huge stretch and I'm not sure where Beato would fit in. Possibly someone else who has already solved the riddle but refuses to claim the gold? Also not too sure if you determine a location on the island purely on clues from everything prior to Rudol.

Let us assume that "those who remain" must "tear apart those who are close", so that a permutation is needed and only permutations in which D and R are apart with at least one of the remaining letters between them are valid. Well, I just made a list of all of them and here's the only one that makes any sense. In fact, it's the only sequence beside "Lord U" that seems to make any sense.

RUDOL => Rudolf.

What does his name sound when written out as romaji, again?

lol that's interesting but let's see it from the kogane theory standpoint

quadrillion-liquid=__a_r_l__on

oarln
oalrn
oraln
olarn
orlan
olran

there doesn't seem to be anything relevant, with maybe the exception of "orlan" which is close to "orland" but not close enough.

let's see if i can find all the possible combinations of anything that could lead to only "two close". there's something that helps with this.
Either the two who are close are the two "l", or at least three among the "illi" characters must be eliminated. Else there wouldn't be a compulsory couple of two close letters. It could be "_li_" but also "_l_i" or "i_l_". At any rate if the riddle is well made, such an occurrence shouldn't be possible.
There is however the special case where both "ll" are eliminated and the "i" are not, however in this case we'd have already 4 automatic exclusions.

case one: "ll" are the two who are close (both "i" must be eliminated)

Ok, so those possibilities are highly unlikely. So IF Rudol is the only reasonable permutation left, what could it mean? The only thing I could think of is that Rudolph was somehow made the trustee for that inheritance situation you described before Oliver prior to the game starting and therefore what the epitaph does is determine a heir and reveals who the heir should go to for the inheritance.

Unfortunately that as such doesn't work because then Rudolf would have no need whatsoever to pressure Krauss... He could either just slam the documents on the table and say "And now you listen to me." or dip his hand in like Krauss did.

That does not, however preclude Rudolf from being in one way or another special in relation to the epitaph, considering Battler, his sin, the Other Battler and the entire mess.

...and darn, I forgot what I was going to say but I had a different idea.

__________________

"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
— Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

After episode 6, the curious part of me wonders if Battler could at all be in on people faking their deaths. Could explain why he is never really 'chosen' as a sacrifice. Also, he is in position to lay quite a few of the letters that were found. Of course, this is crazy talk since Battler has control of his own piece and would know this. Not going through with it would be an easy was to stop the murders, in my opinion.
The other reason I say this is because of what the difficulty level for episode 6 read.

Well, if I approach them with the same rule I got RUDOL with from Qilian, (i.e "any permutation that does not include the two letters that were consecutive as consecutive") the following ones sound like something: