Lane Match Up's General Thread

Today I would like to discuss laning match ups. Any sort of matchup, whether it be off meta garbage champs like Aatrox, or weird item builds to counter a certain champion, etc.

I'll start off with bot, as it is the only lane I confidently say I know well. I will also throw in a disclaimer that bot lane match ups are also hugely dependent on support picks too and that has a lot more variance. I'll focus on just the individual meta adcs.

Ashe- Ashe is a good pick in that she has pretty much no bad match ups if you use her W (Volley) properly in lane to poke. I'd say Draven, Lucian, and to a lesser extent Twitch have kill pressure if they aren't poked out by her W. Post level six Vayne and Kog'Maw also have kill pressure if they are even in cs and dodge her ultimate. Caitlyn kinda gets shit on by Ashe W but it's arguably a skill match up since a Cait that is good with her traps can easily kill her too. Overall I'd say Ashe is still one of the better adcs due to her pick potential, but no longer S tier after the damage nerfs. A Tier.

Caitlyn- Caitlyn is probably the best adc in the meta in my opinion. She flat out wins any match up against short ranged adcs (Lucian, Vayne low level Tristana, Ezreal, low level Kog'Maw Kalista without a support that has a brain, and Sivir) Caitlyn's bad match ups are also pretty off meta, Miss Fortune (who isn't played much), Varus who is mostly used mid, and Ashe who isn't really S tier after damage nerfs. Miss Fortune's E (Make It Rain) has huge range and an aoe slow. It's a good counter to Caitlyn Q as Caitlyn Q has a cast time that makes her immobile for about a second. Varus Q is greater range than Cait Q and can be cast while moving so it's just a better spell imo. His E is also about the same range and aoe slows which is pretty bad for her too. The problem with Varus is that he has to build tear for mana regen, but he stacks tear extremely slowly as an adc, and if you're picking a champ to lane bully and then building tear it's somewhat redundant. Same reason why it isn't built on Jayce top anymore. Ashe W is the same range as Cait Q, is instantly cast, and has a slow. While Jinx isn't exactly a counter pick to Cait, she has comparable range and can farm safely against her. Jinx also outscales by a fair amount so it's somewhat a counter pick but not a laning counter pick. That is why she counters her. Cait is S tier because of her dominant laning, huge range, ability to siege and counter siege by lining up her traps to a turret, and overall well scaling due to huge range. She is also able to win every match up purely due to her range if she can dodge skill shots well, even if some are not favorable.

Corki- Corki's build path is extremely awkward now since Triforce doesn't build crit. I'd honestly say he's a better mid lane pick than ad since you can his ult to roam and mid lane gets more farm which allows him to reach his expensive item breakpoints faster. The only lane he really loses to are Caitlyn if the Caitlyn is good enough to dodge his Q (Phosphorus Bomb) Lucian who has a really time dodging his Q with his E (Relentless Pursuit) and then just follow up with his Q (Piercing Light). Miss Fortune can also use her passive high movement speed to just dodge his Q in lane and then E (Make It Rain) him.
Every other match up he wins if he lands his Q. I'd say Corki is viable but not great, and I'd also say he's a better mid laner. B Tier.

Draven- Draven is the best adc in the meta. His only bad match up is pussy ass Caitlyn players and faggoty jungle mains who camp him because the person who picked him outclasses the enemy adc in terms of skill by such a wide margin that they have to 3v2 just to keep him down. S Tier.

Ezreal- He has an extremely safe laning phase. If you're smart with you're E (Arcane Shift) and farm from a distance with your Q (Mystic Shot) you'll be fine in any match up. Mid game you can teamfight extremely well with a stacked tear but that is a different subject. I'd say Caitlyn can dick him, but Caitlyn can dick anyone. S Tier in terms of safe laning and arguably being the best team fighting adc if you land everything well.

Jhin- Jhin is a lane bully. Only really skilled Caitlyn players and smart Lucian players that know to engage when he has no bullets left can beat him in lane. Any adc that can dodge W (Deadly Flourish) which snares you if any damage like an auto or a spell from Jhin or his support hit you previously. But dodging his W isn't always a sure thing if the enemy support slows or cc's you so it's risky. I'd honestly say picking Cait or Lucian into him is your best bet. If he lands his W you will 100% lose the trade and maybe even be killed in lane. Not only that, but his W and R (Curtain Call) are both good in teamfighting and setting up picks. He is one of the strongest meta adcs at the moment. S Tier.

Jinx- She can lane safely against anybody if she uses her E (Flame Chompers) well. Her E is an instant snare that can be used to run away or win a trade if someone dashes in like an idiot. But good Lucian players can kinda just E in and use his full combo to destroy her if he is good. Vayne post six also flat out recks her, and outscales her so that is also a pick to consider if you want to be camped by the enemy jungler because you are so much more skilled than Jinx. I'd say Jinx is A Tier, she's viable, but if you posses extremely good auto spacing she's S Tier.

Kalista- Bugged garbage champ, don't pick her as nobody below Diamond knows how to play well with a Kalista.

Kog'Maw- He was reverted to his old form, so just like Corki his build path is shit since it lacks the crit in triforce. Lucian can dash in and murder him in lane, and Miss Fortune can use her E to bully him out of lane. Corki still loses to him in lane, and gets outscaled so never pick him into Kog. Caitlyn's that are good with traps can also shit on Kog pretty easily. At six if you haven't died in lane and are even or close in cs like 6-12 minions behind only, you can use R (Living Artillery) to start poking. If not just afk farm until mid game and try to out teamfight with your W's (Bio Arcane Barrage) absurd range.

Lucian- Lucian is a short range burst adc that is extremely sink or swim but snowballs well. Good Lucian players can outduel mid lane players if they get kills or big cs leads bot which is why he is popular is solo queue and so good overall. Caitlyn is his only bad matchup due to her sheer range, but good Lucian's that use his E well can win lane against her. Other than that he wins pretty much every match up if you can use your E to dodge spells and get in range to use your Q (Piercing Light). He's a solid adc, A tier at least and S tier in the hands of someone who is good at him mechanically.

Miss Fortune- Miss Fortune is a strong teamfighting lane bully. She doesn't have a single bad matchup in lane with the exception of good Lucian players, and even then she outscales Lucian so it's pretty whatever. You should never lose lane with Mf unless your support is garbage or you're garbage and get hit by cc which should never happen due to your absurd movespeed unless you get auto'd in which case you should auto back and use your spells and win the trade anyways. S Tier, the best solo queue adc (besides Draven). I don't play her personally because she is so fucking cheesey and lame, but she has the highest winrate in Solo Queue for a reason.

Sivir- Vayne and Caitlyn counter her in lane, she can go even against anything else if she uses her E (spell shield) well. She scales super well since she builds 3 critical strike items and is a utility adc that uses her R (On the Hunt which gives the whole team a move speed boost) to give teamfight advantages. I'd say A tier in solo queue since nobody has cohesion, but in competitive S Tier.

Tristana- Tristana is in a weird spot. She doesn't do anything better than the current meta adcs and her laning is straight up atrocious because her E (Explosive Charge) passively pushes the lane which makes you vulnerable to jungle ganks. Early levels pretty much everyone can bully her out of lane since her range grows with her levels and at early levels it's really low, but if you can survive you scale super well. I don't see why you would pick her over other champions except if you like her kit a lot. B Tier, viable but no great.

Twitch- Twitch can be bullied out of lane by pretty much all of the strongest adcs, like Lucian, Cait, MF, but his mid game roam potential and team fighting is extremely good. I like Twitch a lot personally as I think his kit is one of the more different ones for adcs, but his laning is not that great and better laners have comparable scaling. Again, a good Twitch that can dodge skill shot can survive laning and then outscale, but that applies to every adc so >.> B Tier laning, A Tier overall.

Varus- Varus is the best poke adc in the game that isn't Jhin. But unlike Jhin he has to build a tear, so Jhin is just a better champ. Varus can lane bully any champ, but since he has to build tear that puts him at a gold disadvantage of 750 gold which sort counters the point of picking him as a lane bully in the first place. Just pick Jhin, Varus is a better mid laner since he can take ghost mid which increases his safety and ability to use his Q (Piercing Arrow) which slows down your move speed. Ghost helps with that reduced movespeed since it increases your move speed. "If you don't take heal as adc you are a stupid griefer garbage player like Evantide" -TehLaziBoi
As an adc, Varus is B Tier in my opinion, as a mid A-S Tier as he works as a counter pick to some mid match ups but I won't get into that. Maybe someone who knows more about it can?

Vayne- Don't pick Vayne, Vayne is garbage, her laning is garbage, her teamfighting is hard unless you have good mechanics and auto spacing like Sree, but even then if the enemy team has one fucking brain cell and buys a pink you're fucking doomed since you have no range. If you pick Vayne and you aren't Diamond you're a troll. EX Tier.

Last edited: Oct 15, 2016

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As a fill main, pick Karma when you inevitably land support, land your Qs even if you have to hit a minion wave, and ping spam then shield your retard ADC before they get caught. Else, pick Janna and play like a pussy all day and win because braindead mechanics.

Jokes aside, really great insight, Lucky. However, I think you also have to consider the support side of the equation because 2v2 lanes aren't always decided by spectacular ADC play.

For example, Jhin can be mitigated with Nami since she's a lane bully herself and brings sustain, CC and a reliable way to interrupt his ult with her own.

Karma Sivir is a great combo not just because of competitive play but because Karma shores up a few of the weaknesses Sivir has, such as vulnerability at range and some soft CC.

I don't have much to offer in terms of support lane matchups because I find it depends more on synergy with the ADC, but I prefer to take ranged supports over melee.

Karma's my top pick because of her safety and her poke. The problem is once you get past lane phase, she offers only engage/disengage but no hard CC and initiation. I tend to try and poke out the enemy ADC and snowball the lane off of that but it can be unreliable depending on the state of other lanes.

Re: Mid Varus, super safe lane and if you're Faker you can line up your CS and poke at the same time. Ult can be an initiation tool or self-peel, but you're probably going to want to run ghost/flash anyway. However, weak, mana starved early pushing plus low roam potential plus a lack of hard CC outside of his ult means that he can't affect other lanes as well as say, Aurelion Sol, TF or Syndra. A decent Syndra clears faster than he can while maintaining severe kill threat.

"I'll start off with bot, as it is the only lane I confidently say I know well. I will also throw in a disclaimer that bot lane match ups are also hugely dependent on support picks too and that has a lot more variance. I'll focus on just the individual meta adcs."

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Your general observations have value, that is true, but at least make a better effort of it if you're going to attempt to rank them against each other. You even say that three of them are each essentially the best, with the caveat that one is a personal opinion(as is pretty much the entire post, technically), and the other would be the best if the real best didn't already exist.

I would be more interested to see how you actually place them overall, from best to worst. While I do have a reasonable idea based upon the post content, it's still a little unclear.

I'm the mother flippin' Rhymenocerous
My beats are fly and the birds are on my back
And I'm horny
I'm horny
If you choose to proceed you will indeed concede
Cos I hit you with my flow
The Wild Rhino Stampede.

All the adcs I mentioned are B tier in that they can be played. I honestly feel like the only actual unplayable adc at the moment is Kalista, and that is mostly due to bugs. Sure, Caitlyn has a range advantage and wins every almost every match up, but several adcs outscale her (Twitch, Vayne, Jinx)

But I am of the opinion that any adc can be played if you're good enough at it.

If you want a binary list purely on my opinion of an adcs "tier", it's somewhat useless, because as I mentioned and did Zerg, Bot lane isn't purely about one adc is better than the other. Some adcs do better than others in certain match ups, you have to consider enemy team comps, do they have a bunch of dive assassins or do they have mages or do they have hyper tanks, what sort of support are they running melee engage like Braum or Alistar, mage like Brand or Zyra who have kill pressure, or Nami Janna Soraka who just outsustain and poke you out of the lane. It isn't just a list of Miss Fortune is a 10 and Caitlyn is a 9. In some situations where the enemy team has a more assassins I'd favor Cait more due to her traps acting as a deterrent against them engaging on me.
But against a group of mages and hyper tanks I'd prefer Miss Fortune. Or if I need a lot of mobility because the enemy team has a lot of assassins/diving champions I'd take Ez or Lucian. All adc picks should be situational, I favor/believe Cait is the best because her kit can address all situations well, but some champs kite better or team fight better, but she can do all with no discernible weakness.

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There you go. While it was only a snippet, that's the kind of stuff I was talking about as an accompaniment. Although I suppose, as stated, it wasn't the original core attempt(which even you preemptively admitted was inherently flawed as a form of analysis, and was thus the impetus for my first post), so fair enough.

I'm not personally looking for the advice, if nothing else than because I rarely play the role nowadays, I just think that it would round out your original post nicely if you did actually go back and expand upon it. Perhaps as a followup post, if that works better.

Sorry about that, I started typing my response while in queue and accidentally your second sentence.

I've been seeing a rash of Vayne mains recently and for the most part they've been mildly successful to devastating. Maybe just Shaco effect. I don't think, even into low Diamond, people know how to punish Vayne's early game/laning phase, and relying on the team to layer CC properly or delete her after dropping a pink is a gamble at best.

On the other hand, I've seen very few successful Dravens lately, possibly due to the popularity of Cait.

:awesome

Jon said:

Break DLP and Carry On

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