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Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Because red zone defense and turnover ratio is totally not important.

No, it is absolutely important. That's my point.

A few pages back some made the point that Joe struggles when defenses make the Ravens' offense 1 dimensional. I clearly pointed out that Joe played pretty damn well in the playoffs last year and both the Patriots and Texans made the Ravens 1 dimensional by taking away the run, which would undoubtedly point to the fact that Joe CAN play pretty damn well when Rice has nowhere to run. There is historical evidence backing that up. Can he struggle? Sure, but so can every other QB in the NFL.

Then, you were quick to point out that both of Flacco's TD's were a result of the Texans goofs. You - and others - were also quick to point out that the Patriots had a poor defense ranking that year. Then you admitted that the Patriots' front 7 was pretty good and that they played really well that game.

The point is, it is ALL important. You can't single out ONE specific incident and make a claim as if it is truth. It doesn't work that way. Football doesn't work that way.

Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

This is one of the worst posts we've seen here....ever

#1) You don't think Flacco has improved? (rhetorical question I guess). Flacco in his first two years was largely a game manager who infrequently would make a game-changing play. He now is the type of QB who can single-handedly take over a football game when he's hot. Yes, consistency is still an issue (just like in his first few seasons), but the upside is much higher than before and I think you can argue the floor has become a lot higher as well. Look at his stat lines over his first 32 starts. You saw a lot of sub-200 yard, 0 TD games. We were okay with those efforts before, because the Ravens still won the game in the midst of those lackluster stat lines. You rarely see those type of games from him anymore. We, as fans, have clearly raised the bar for him. In the absence of a good defense this year, Flacco has to win games, not just manage them. When he fails, we chastise him. Yet, the fact that he is now frequently able to turn in the type of effort like he did on Sunday indicates his level of play has indeed improved. Joe Flacco circa 2008 or 2009 could not have done what he did against Cincy, NE, Oak, Was, or NYG this year. I would state that those who think Flacco hasn't improved are using a ridiculously upward moving scale in evaluating him.

2) "when the stars align, he can play great". First off, the stars must align quite often in your galaxy, because Flacco has had a lot of really good games over the last 30 starts. This isn't a case of the guy looking like Johnny Unitas once a year. He has these burst of brilliance far more regularly than you state. Secondly, in the midst of a lot of variables in his career, he's still produced at a perfectly good level and won a lot of football games. None of the TEs or WRs who he threw to in year #1 and #2 were around for year #4.

Also, this statement shows your lack of comprehension on how difficult the NFL is. Flacco is not Brady or Peyton or Brees. Nobody here thinks he is or expects him to be. Aside from that trio, every other QB in the league is going to suffer when variables change or are removed. That is a fact that people who follow the trends of teams league-wide have observed. Joe has had a patchwork, underperforming line in front of him this year. He rarely has time to set and throw and yet is having another solid season. When Jay Cutler or Eli Manning or Philip Rivers (all QBs viewed to be better than Joe by a lot of analysts) have struggles with their O-lines, they throw 15-20 INTs a season. Joe, despite his O-line struggles, has only 10 INTs this year. That should be no surprise, since Flacco, despite never missing an NFL start, has never thrown more than 12 in a season. Despite being inconsistent from start-to-start, Flacco is arguably the most consistent QB from an overall stats line in NFL history.

#3) When we wait for the other Joe to show up...is that Joe really all that awful? Again, here is where statistical facts come into play. Joe Flacco has gone 45 games without throwing more than two interceptions. During that 45 game stretch since he last threw 3, he has only had three instances where he even threw two INTs in a game. I think we need to take a step back and appreciate how impressive that is. Matt Ryan had a game this year where he threw 0TD-5INT. Eli Manning has numerous games where he is a turnover machine. We criticized Joe after his efforts against WAS and DEN even those two games he had 5TDs-2INTs and a passer rating a couple points shy of 100. I agree that he didn't play well, but if those two weeks were your example of his poor play, you need to find better examples to convince me, particularly in light of what a truly bad game is for other NFL QBs.

#4) What does Joe's draft position have to do with his level of criticism and expectation. Would we be reacting any differently to his performance this year if he was a 4th round pick? Would his interception against the Broncos be more excusable? That's a severely flawed logic. Late first round draft pick QBs are far from a sure thing and Flacco has vastly out-performed the expectations for even an early-to-mid first rounder, let alone a late first rounder (not that it's even relevant). You state as almost a matter of fact that first round draft pick QBs are assured of greatness, which is outright wrong. Flacco in year #4, with one dropped pass away from the Super Bowl, was IMO ahead of Matthew "king-of-the-meaningless stat" Stafford (a #1 overall pick) is this year in his 4th season. He's also on a much better arc than Sanchez, Freeman, and even Sam Bradford (another #1 overall pick). He also is probably on par with Matt Ryan, who was taken as the first QB in his own 2008 draft. Ryan has better numbers (against far worse defenses), but has been an outright AWFUL Qb when it counts in the playoffs. I might still give the edge to Flacco in that comparison. If you think a QB should enter the NFL in the late first round and have the expectation for them to have the success that Flacco has, you are truly uneducated on the history of the game of football. Even when Joe has a bad game or bad moment, he still has done some pretty remarkable things in his first 5 NFL seasons....some of which may never be done again....ever.

Wow Dude,i feel like a dentist with that pick that hit a nerve! Worst post ever? C'mon, the truth really must hurt. All over expecting a #1 pick to play like #1 pick? Really.

Way too many words to even read.

All I want is for the Ravens #1 pick not to lose games, (which he has with red zone picks, fumbles, deer in the headlight look, duh! ) Hell, I don't even wont him to win games, just don't keep losing them by throwing the game away.

He hasn't been spectacular, but he has been consistent.
Alright, so maybe we might have just enough at O-line to pull off a Super Bowl victory. Hey, if the Steelers could do it in 2008 and the Giants last season with their lines as bad as they were...

Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

No, it is absolutely important. That's my point.

A few pages back some made the point that Joe struggles when defenses make the Ravens' offense 1 dimensional. I clearly pointed out that Joe played pretty damn well in the playoffs last year and both the Patriots and Texans made the Ravens 1 dimensional by taking away the run, which would undoubtedly point to the fact that Joe CAN play pretty damn well when Rice has nowhere to run. There is historical evidence backing that up. Can he struggle? Sure, but so can every other QB in the NFL.

Then, you were quick to point out that both of Flacco's TD's were a result of the Texans goofs. You - and others - were also quick to point out that the Patriots had a poor defense ranking that year. Then you admitted that the Patriots' front 7 was pretty good and that they played really well that game.

The point is, it is ALL important. You can't single out ONE specific incident and make a claim as if it is truth. It doesn't work that way. Football doesn't work that way.

I agree with this.

I think what Dirt said was correct, but what people forget is that I said that Tom Brady struggles a lot of the time too when the ground game isn't working. I bet Brady would have loved to have Stevan Ridley of this year in that SB game against the Giants.

Point is, most QB's struggle to win games or play well without an effective ground game. And that doesn't mean rushing for 200 yards every game, you can have games like the Bengals in week 1 when we were rushing for like 5.5 yards a carry, but Rice only had 66 rushing yards, yards doesn't matter all that much when you think of it though.

Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

Yeah Jah Reid deserves more credit than what he gets around here. The dude has never played guard in his life, let alone the NFL, and after only a handful of starts, he's holding up pretty well making a mistake or two here and there. Some people are making him out to be a bust already, I mean wtf lol. I actually think he could be going into next season as the long term starter at LG if he continues to learn the position and improve, which he has.

All I want is for the Ravens #1 pick not to lose games, (which he has with red zone picks, fumbles, deer in the headlight look, duh! ) Hell, I don't even wont him to win games, just don't keep losing them by throwing the game away.

Wow... Just... I don't think humans have invented the language that can express how mind blowingly, fundamentally, inexcusably terrible this post is.

I just... Words fail me.

Leach, care to defend this gem from someone who clearly agrees with you?

My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron

Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

Wow Dude,i feel like a dentist with that pick that hit a nerve! Worst post ever? C'mon, the truth really must hurt. All over expecting a #1 pick to play like #1 pick? Really.

Way too many words to even read.

All I want is for the Ravens #1 pick not to lose games, (which he has with red zone picks, fumbles, deer in the headlight look, duh! ) Hell, I don't even wont him to win games, just don't keep losing them by throwing the game away.

I uh, I uh...I don't know about this one guys, maybe we should throw him back in the water. Don, you remind me of a guy I work with. He always used that wonderful, 'deer in the headlights' phrase and even chided Flacco for having the gall to throw away a pass instead of 'taking the sack like a man'. What a moron. The both of you. How many games has Flacco actually, 'thrown away'? Gimme a break. Jesus Christ, the mental midgets on this board make me want to hunt the lot of you down, get you in a room and let you scratch each others' eyes out with a spoon. Because it hurts more, you twits.

Re: Joe 'Manned Up'

Please explain, Denver, DC, and of course Pitt is waiting to hear why fumbles, stripped balls and picks didn't contribute to their winning.

I'm so wrong, go back and read those game threads right here on this forum and Flacco is never blamed, right?

Flacco is ALWAYS BLAMED. Even when HE never fucks up, if we lose, it's on Flacco. That's okay, he's the QB, that's part of the job description. When he DOES do the right thing, he STILL gets blamed. The guy can't win.

What a concept, you mean turnovers help contribute to wins and losses?! Well my STARS! Too bad Flacco isn't the only QB in the game who throws picks and fumbles, otherwise you might not sound like you've recently had a lobotomy.