Funny, racist, offensive…all three?

I seriously can't stop laughing. I find it funny on so many levels. The juvenile in me is laughing at the racial humor. The adult in me is laughing at the absurdity of the news anchor. The jaded adult me is laughing because it's a sad commentary on the news. I'm having a hard time not giggling even against the back drop of the tragedy. I just wish the Daily Show were up and running right now.

(Just in case you're feeling guilty for finding the racial part funny, it's okay, as an Asian I give you permission. And, of course, I speak for all Asians)

Pretty mild as far as racism goes, the funny part is of course that the television station didn't catch the joke. Ho Lee Fuk? That didn't ring any alarm bells for the folks over at KTVU? They need to watch more Simpsons.

If you are into forensic engineering, the NTSB is probably one of the best places to do an internship in the world. I will admit, forensic engineering is often tragic, but it is also really interesting to do.

Of course, the individual who pranked the TV station may not be going into that field. Based on the NTSB's statement, it sounds like the intern contacted the TV station.

FWIW, it has come out that the names originated at the station. Dude "confirming" at the NTSB was just trying to be a helpful intern:

Quote:

The National Transportation Safety Board late Friday issued its own apology for “inaccurate and offensive names that were mistakenly confirmed” to KTVU Channel 2 as those of the pilots of Asiana flight 214, which crashed at San Francisco International Airport on Saturday.

The statement said that an NTSB summer intern, in response to the station’s inquiry, “acted outside the scope of his authority when he erroneously confirmed the names of the flight crew on the aircraft.”

However, in a subsequent phone interview with the SFGate’s Jeff Elder, NTSB spokeswoman Kelly Nantel made clear that the names “originated at the media outlet” and that the intern — unaware of the offensive names — was “acting in good faith and trying to be helpful” by confirming names he didn’t know.

Agree with the OP: this situation is "all three".

Quote:

(Just in case you're feeling guilty for finding the racial part funny, it's okay, as an Asian I give you permission. And, of course, I speak for all Asians)

I'd still feel better if you bring this up and try to get official clearance, at the next big meeting.

If you are into forensic engineering, the NTSB is probably one of the best places to do an internship in the world. I will admit, forensic engineering is often tragic, but it is also really interesting to do.

I can see the work being interesting, but some of the things I've encountered in the past tells me that that the NTSB is a rather shitty organization within which to work.

Mildly funny; mildly making fun of a culture (not a race, and making fun of a race isn't necessarily racist); only offensive if you can't take a joke.

After two people died (by that point), dozens injured and even the least affected with emotional scars and lost luggage, it's probably not a great time for humor. That joke has been done before, with perhaps reduced racist impact.

What strikes me is that unless the person ultimately responsible for writing and vetting the info graphics is somehow at fault, that they could fall for something so obvious. Presumably they're able to joke about racially sensitive material enough that at some point in the past they'd seen variations on the joke.

More to the point, it's racist enough that they're linking Koreans into a joke that uses pseudo-Chinese names. The whole "Asians are all the same" trope is arguably more racist than the whole riff on naming joke.

More to the point, it's racist enough that they're linking Koreans into a joke that uses pseudo-Chinese names. The whole "Asians are all the same" trope is arguably more racist than the whole riff on naming joke.

Okay I am Korean and I can't think of way to make the joke using pseudo-Korean names. Half the population is named Moon, Park, Lee, or Chong. I don't even think I'm exaggerating.

There's a breakfast restaurant in HK named, The Flying Pan, as a joke on how a local would say the word, 'frying pan'. Its funny and lame at the same time.

In light of the Asiana thing however, I wouldn't call it racist, but insensitive; even tho the fatalities have been few, it still doesn't help to make light of what such a thing.

edit: I read the names, and I couldn't stop my self from laughing. Wi Tu Lo was just to damn funny, especially because I can totally see that as name for someone in Hong Kong. One of the largest jewellery shops in Hong Kong is King Fook Jewellery.

We work with the NTSB folks (most recently on the Seastreak case). They're usually pretty good accident investigators.

..

Yeah, it was heh funny, but the stupid thing is, it's a Korean crew so the names aren't very funny in that context. The only culture it makes fun of is that of the news crew for thinking the names are similar at all.

..

Quote:

After two people died (by that point), dozens injured and even the least affected with emotional scars and lost luggage, it's probably not a great time for humor

Always a great time for humor. 9/11? Yeah, if you didn't laugh at the Onion, well, I hope you get better grief handling mechanisms.

After two people died (by that point), dozens injured and even the least affected with emotional scars and lost luggage, it's probably not a great time for humor. That joke has been done before, with perhaps reduced racist impact.

It wasn't in good taste but people need to lighten up. The families of the victims aren't the target audience. Just because a small fraction of people would find a joke offensive doesn't mean that nobody should tell it. And sometimes a joke is better because it's offensive (the shock factor, a staple tool of standup comedians).

After two people died (by that point), dozens injured and even the least affected with emotional scars and lost luggage, it's probably not a great time for humor. That joke has been done before, with perhaps reduced racist impact.

It wasn't in good taste but people need to lighten up. The families of the victims aren't the target audience. Just because a small fraction of people would find a joke offensive doesn't mean that nobody should tell it. And sometimes a joke is better because it's offensive (the shock factor, a staple tool of standup comedians).

"Yeah, it was heh funny, but the stupid thing is, it's a Korean crew so the names aren't very funny in that context.

Yep, I was reading the names on the list twice to get the puns because sometimes the switch from Cantonese to English can be jarring. Wi Tu Lo I had to read 4 times to get the pun, I just could stop reading it as cantonese, which is probably why I laughed the hardest at that once I got the pun. But yah, absolutely, they don't read like Korean names at all. I think Korean could be closer to Mandarin sounding names, but definitely not cantonese sounding names, which is what the ones on the list sound like.

It is definitely racist, although most people don't see the harm in it. The trouble is, as a rule, a person can't chuckle at how funny-sounding Asian names are without internalizing that to some extent. Then, say that person is reviewing a stack of job applications. Sorry, Asians, that person is more likely to pass over your resumes due to unconscious bias.

So when you're asking yourself if this is racist enough to care about, keep that in mind. If you say it's no big deal, you're pretty much okay with the job-application bias. If you would like to live in a world where that bias is lessened, then think about not giving this kind of 'harmless' racism a pass.

It is definitely racist, although most people don't see the harm in it. The trouble is, as a rule, a person can't chuckle at how funny-sounding Asian names are without internalizing that to some extent. Then, say that person is reviewing a stack of job applications. Sorry, Asians, that person is more likely to pass over your resumes due to unconscious bias.

So when you're asking yourself if this is racist enough to care about, keep that in mind. If you say it's no big deal, you're pretty much okay with the job-application bias. If you would like to live in a world where that bias is lessened, then think about not giving this kind of 'harmless' racism a pass.

Oh, in Hong Kong, where it's common practice for Chinese locals... one second...

Can we make a concerted effort in this thread at least to stop using the word 'Asians' for whatever race you guys are describing. I'm really confused. I don't know if you're talking about Chinese, Koreans, or what. And in a thread discussing racism towards Koreans, it be best to be a little more specific.

... okay back... as I was saying, in HK it's common practice for people to pick their own english names. Some are ridiculous, and yeah, around the water cooler it's fun to giggle at unique names, but IME, no one passes on a job applicant just because of an unusual name. Well not in Asia (the entire continent in this case) because each country does tend to have some nuggets. Like one of India's most famous actress, Madhuri Dixit (last name literally pronounced, Dick-Shit, but obviously doesn't have the english meaning).

The racism is assigning values where there is none. King Fook jewellery, as I mentioned earlier, is a legitimate store here. Some tourist might laugh the first time reading it, but the store name is what it is. Being over sensitive doesn't help, and not being able to laugh at the fantastic similarities of human words that can be made with the mouth and yet have different meaning across cultures is a tragedy me thinks. I laugh every time I tell my mom there's an interview of Madhuri Dixit on TV that she might like to watch. Only because I never swear in front of my mom, even in my mid 30s, its just something I don't do, yet I can't escape that i'm using the words, dick shit, to her, it cracks me up every time.

Maybe because I live here that I don't see the problem with having a little fun with names. I still wouldn't do it in light of what happened to Asiana, because that's insensitive.

Actually, that's not true at all. It's mostly a joke about how ignorant a lot of Americans are with the differences between Asian groups. The rest, also, is just badly pronounced english in a 'generic asian' style.

It's not even racist towards Koreans in general. You'd have to actually understand the difference to get that far.

Can we make a concerted effort in this thread at least to stop using the word 'Asians' for whatever race you guys are describing. I'm really confused. I don't know if you're talking about Chinese, Koreans, or what. And in a thread discussing racism towards Koreans, it be best to be a little more specific.

'Asian' is the appropriate term, because I'm not describing a race, I'm characterizing this as an instance of racism, and 'asian' is as specific as the racist component gets here. An American television station broadcast a joke that depends on an English-speaker's impression of Chinese-ish names' to work. And it was applied to a Korean airline because... meh, close enough.

Quote:

Being over sensitive doesn't help, and not being able to laugh at the fantastic similarities of human words that can be made with the mouth and yet have different meaning across cultures is a tragedy me thinks.

In point of fact we're not talking about specific words that have different meanings across different cultures, we're talking about some idiot making up fake names based on a "ching chong ding dong" caricature of a culture. Whew, tragedy averted!

You know, the "over sensitive" characterization really bothers me. Becoming more sensitive to extant racism is how we make progress. If you could travel back in time a generation or two, over the course of a day you would hear some comments that are horrendously racist to modern ears, yet any objection you raised would undoubtedly be viewed as oversensitivity. If you accept that racism is still a problem, then how is being sensitive to it a bad thing?

I'm not telling everybody who laughed at this they're a terrible person. I'm suggesting there is more going on here than it seems, and I'm asking people to consider whether that changes their opinion on how funny and/or acceptable the joke is.

You know, the "over sensitive" characterization really bothers me. Becoming more sensitive to extant racism is how we make progress. If you could travel back in time a generation or two, over the course of a day you would hear some comments that are horrendously racist to modern ears, yet any objection you raised would undoubtedly be viewed as oversensitivity. If you accept that racism is still a problem, then how is being sensitive to it a bad thing?

No, not believing other demographic groups are inferior for superficial reasons is how we make progress. Oversensitivity is a side effect, not a cause, of that progress. It's possible to not believe a demographic group is inferior yet make fun of it in a lighthearted way (a priest, a rabbi, and _ walk into a bar…). Unfortunately, some people take offense at the mere acknowledgement of demographic differences, even if it doesn't imply inferiority. Particularly, an innocent question that a kid may ask like "why do black people have curly hair?" would make a lot of people uncomfortable.

as a rule, a person can't chuckle at how funny-sounding Asian names are without internalizing that to some extent. Then, say that person is reviewing a stack of job applications. Sorry, Asians, that person is more likely to pass over your resumes due to unconscious bias.

as a rule, a person can't chuckle at how funny-sounding Asian names are without internalizing that to some extent. Then, say that person is reviewing a stack of job applications. Sorry, Asians, that person is more likely to pass over your resumes due to unconscious bias.

If they're worried about the "damage to their reputation" suing is just about the last thing they should do. It takes a stupid cock-up which everybody naturally blames on the TV station, adds more attention to it, and makes Asiana look petty. They really should have taken the high road there.

It is definitely racist, although most people don't see the harm in it. The trouble is, as a rule, a person can't chuckle at how funny-sounding Asian names are without internalizing that to some extent. Then, say that person is reviewing a stack of job applications. Sorry, Asians, that person is more likely to pass over your resumes due to unconscious bias.

So when you're asking yourself if this is racist enough to care about, keep that in mind. If you say it's no big deal, you're pretty much okay with the job-application bias. If you would like to live in a world where that bias is lessened, then think about not giving this kind of 'harmless' racism a pass.

You, Noodle? Much love.

Earlier today I had to correct someone who did the 'all Asians are Chinese' thing. Admittedly, they were making a stab in the dark guess, due to ignorance of differences between Japanese, Chinese, etc. language/name structure.

Not only that, but the accents are different too. A person from China speaking Mandarin is different from a Taiwanese speaking Mandarin - which too me I prefer better, the Taiwanese make mandarin sound really beautiful to my ears. Cantonese which sounds harsher to my ears, is apparently smoother then Mandarin spoken in China to other people. And that's similar languages. Then you have the Korean language which sounds nothing like the Chinese languages (to my ear at least).

The idea of offending a race first requires trying to offend a group with the right stereotypes the first place. Its like making fun of the French with German stereotypes. Its just nonsensical before it even starts to get to the offensive point on the barometer.

edit: what's funny is that some of the japanese and Chinese characters are similar, but korean characters are wildly different. Yet, Japanese spoken language is apparently more similar to Korean language.

Like .劉煒 is using what I think is 'traditional' Chinese characters (fonts), which is common in Hong Kong, but in mainland china, what they use is 'simplified' Chinese characters (fonts). I believe that's right, unless I'm mixing that up.

Like .劉煒 is using what I think is 'traditional' Chinese characters (fonts), which is common in Hong Kong, but in mainland china, what they use is 'simplified' Chinese characters (fonts). I believe that's right, unless I'm mixing that up.

I don't know about HK, but Taiwan uses traditional Chinese characters while mainland China uses the simplified characters. Their naming conventions are different too - Taiwanese tend to have 2 syllable first names (often spelled in English as two words so people end up calling them with half their name, thinking the 2nd syllable is a middle name. This also happens with Koreans), while mainland Chinese more often have 1 syllable first names. Of course, this isn't a hard-and-fast thing.

All this discussion just reminds me how bad my Chinese is. Did I mention its my first language? I can actually speak what little I do know (or recite something) with vritually no "American" accent. Of course my "fluent" English suffers a bit because I never learned how to properly make the sounds not found in Chinese (like the "thr" in "three" which I pronounce like "free"). I don't even remember how to write my Chinese name.

This character: 干 tends to throw fits with translators, especially for menus, where combined with say the characters for chicken, should read out something like 'dry chicken' (loosely that is, not necessarily you're getting dry chicken, if you know what I mean). However, if a restaurant owner just does the automatic computer generated translation without human correction, what you often end up seeing printed in the menus is, 'Fuck the chicken', because it can be the mandarin word for fuck (not really, it's not like the character itself has a meaning).

Anyway, that's a lot more funnier than the puns made to sound like Chinese names. Now if you want to order say chicken fried rice in cantonese, the inflection of the word for chicken, you either say chicken, or if you inflect the word wrong, you could say the slang word (here) for gay person. I'd like gay person fried rice.

More to the point, it's racist enough that they're linking Koreans into a joke that uses pseudo-Chinese names. The whole "Asians are all the same" trope is arguably more racist than the whole riff on naming joke.

Okay I am Korean and I can't think of way to make the joke using pseudo-Korean names. Half the population is named Moon, Park, Lee, or Chong. I don't even think I'm exaggerating.

A few month ago, I grabbed a Korean Mag and one of the real estate agents listed in the mag was named Central Park. I will try to dig up a picture when I get back.