I'll be honest, I would like that. Whether it's helpful or not I would like to hear an explanation.

And a little less constructive I would like to hear what her supporters and defenders think. Did this convince them?

No. I know Teal would never intentionally do this to an animal.

Do I think this is proof that Teal is responsible for the condition of the dog? No. The vet records don't exactly tell us anything we didn't already know... That the dog was emaciated. However, it does say right there, that the cause of the emaciation could very well be from stress.

My conclusion is maybe the dog felt bereft... Dogs know when you don't like them. And the stress caused his weight loss. Do I think Teal STARVED the dog? No, no I do not. But it doesn't take long for a lean puppy to get dangerously skinny...especially a lean, stressed out puppy that may or may not have been refusing food when with Teal.

That's my personal conclusion. I also don't think Teal will come back here... I wouldn't, either. No matter what she says, it won't matter. No one will believe that she doesn't "recycle" dogs or purposely abuse them. Most of you seem to already feel that other breeders should avoid selling her puppies. It's sad that is came down this way.

There is no PROOF. Is there evidence that leans more one way and not the other? Yes, but there is no PROOF. Proof is when you can say, as fact, that Teal abused this dog. All of what we have here is speculation. The only people who KNOW what happened are Teal and the breeder.

I'll be honest, I like Teal, I've talked to her for a couple years on another forum and we've become "friends" (I use quotations because we've never actually met in person, just spoke via the internet).

However, I'm not going to sit here and make a fool out of myself defending her (and almost digging the hole even deeper for her) like others have. If Teal would like to come back to defend herself, that's fine. I doubt she'll be back here though, she hasn't been online since the other morning anyway. Can't say that I blame her.

Do I think she did this purposefully? No way. But am I okay with how the pup looked in the breeders pictures? Of course not.

I don't know WHAT happened. Or why. But this whole situation saddens me.

Do I think this is proof that Teal is responsible for the condition of the dog? No. The vet records don't exactly tell us anything we didn't already know... That the dog was emaciated. However, it does say right there, that the cause of the emaciation could very well be from stress.

My conclusion is maybe the dog felt bereft... Dogs know when you don't like them. And the stress caused his weight loss. Do I think Teal STARVED the dog? No, no I do not. But it doesn't take long for a lean puppy to get dangerously skinny...especially a lean, stressed out puppy that may or may not have been refusing food when with Teal.

That's my personal conclusion. I also don't think Teal will come back here... I wouldn't, either. No matter what she says, it won't matter. No one will believe that she doesn't "recycle" dogs or purposely abuse them. Most of you seem to already feel that other breeders should avoid selling her puppies. It's sad that is came down this way.

There is no PROOF. Is there evidence that leans more one way and not the other? Yes, but there is no PROOF. Proof is when you can say, as fact, that Teal abused this dog. All of what we have here is speculation. The only people who KNOW what happened are Teal and the breeder.

I guess that's why I'd like to hear from her. She said the dog in the breeder's pictures is the same dog. The dates are from the same day of pickup and the same day he went to the vet. The vet couldn't even get a fecal from him because there was no food in his system. That should never have happened. And she lied about that on here. She lied about the dates on the pictures.

That should never have happened with that dog. If it was bereft from being ignored because she couldn't handle him being clingy, then he needed to be cradled in her arms and spoon fed nutrical if that's what it took. But that didn't happen.

Do I think this is proof that Teal is responsible for the condition of the dog? No. The vet records don't exactly tell us anything we didn't already know... That the dog was emaciated. However, it does say right there, that the cause of the emaciation could very well be from stress.

My conclusion is maybe the dog felt bereft... Dogs know when you don't like them. And the stress caused his weight loss. Do I think Teal STARVED the dog? No, no I do not. But it doesn't take long for a lean puppy to get dangerously skinny...especially a lean, stressed out puppy that may or may not have been refusing food when with Teal.

That's my personal conclusion. I also don't think Teal will come back here... I wouldn't, either. No matter what she says, it won't matter. No one will believe that she doesn't "recycle" dogs or purposely abuse them. Most of you seem to already feel that other breeders should avoid selling her puppies. It's sad that is came down this way.

There is no PROOF. Is there evidence that leans more one way and not the other? Yes, but there is no PROOF. Proof is when you can say, as fact, that Teal abused this dog. All of what we have here is speculation. The only people who KNOW what happened are Teal and the breeder.

You're missing where many of us have said we don't think the neglect was intentional. Whether the emaciation was from stress or him refusing food, why did she not DO something about it? If my dog refused food long enough to get in that condition or was stressed enough to get in that condition (SAD!), you can bet I'd sure as hell be running to the vet and doing whatever I could to get the weight back up.

But if Teal sticks by her statement that the dog was in "good condition" when he left her care, then that's all neither here nor there anyway....

I know that everybody wants to keep this to the Fila pup, but there is a track record here. I will admit that I've not seen this level of neglect from her until now, but the sad thing is that I was not at all surprised when I saw these photos. This is only one incident, and there are many others that aren't being discussed here.

Jairi jumps all over the place as far as breeds she is interested in, so we have no idea what she will end up with next. She's expressed interest in other sighthound breeds, herding breeds, sled dogs, and now apparently PWDs. And, that is just what we know about. What I would love to see is everybody spread the word within their own breed communities. If you know people in California, tell them. Tell them to tell others. Send them to this thread. We need to do everything we can to help be sure that this never happens again.

As far as calling A/C goes, I can see not doing it. That's a good way for your pup to end up being seized and parked in a facility. As "evidence."

I'd be inclined to keep it to passing along the information that this person isn't someone who should necessarily be allowed to obtain a dog, at least not without careful, consistent monitoring.

I'd like to hear about how her fosters fared. Maybe there are some people who are good foster homes but not good permanent homes, at least not for most dogs. I don't know. I can't relate to the whole thing, so I can only speculate. I don't feel that Teal is a mean, cruel person, but there's a connection there that failed, not just on an emotional bonding level with this pup, but on a basic awareness level.

__________________In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.

There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
— Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.