I'm not in the position for making any huge investments, and this might be in the category of just plain ignorant, but I figure this proposal might at least prompt some interesting discussion, and if its plausible, someone should do it:

The Tesla gets about 220 miles per charge. Great... if you're going somewhere less than four hours away. But if the S-class (a $50,000 "family car") is going to be someone's main car, they're certainly going to want to take longer trips with it. The problem is the car takes 8 hours to charge with 110 volts. By doubling the voltage (220 volts), it can be charged in 4 hours. But that still means it's useless for driving the kids to see Gramma.

Question: Could an 880-volt super-charger be built that could charge the Tesla in an hour... roughly the time it takes to get a good highway meal. A network of electric-vehicle charging stations at interstate rest stations would be exactly what it would take to make Tesla competitive... and such a network could probably put a profitable surcharge on the electricity delivered.

If it doesn’t blow up or catch fire. Wonder how much this will cost. Look at your own skyrocketing electric bill and decide for yourself. All they talk about is clean energy; not cost or safety which they know of neither.

Back in the olden days,my father and most men), would not stop for anything when traveling. There was a convenient cup in the back for bathroom breaks. We would not stop for anything. I cannot see a grown man,going on a long trip, looking fondly at stopping for an hour every so often. It would drive me crazy. Guess I inherited that.

I wonder if I can get a grant from Zero to put Lotus Elise engines in Teslas? I can already picture it now, dealers selling these gasoline powered Teslas- heck might as well call it an Elise. Just imagine... imagine.. ...imagine......imagine...

Did you read all of what I wrote? Tesla is already introducing a 220-volt charger to cut charge time from 8 hours to 4 hours. Although I certainly suspect that the batteries would have to be configured to take faster charging.

17
posted on 10/27/2009 6:46:16 AM PDT
by dangus
(Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)

With the stress in our culture, I’d suggest you jump
over the 880 volt charging stops and move directly to the
1760 volt stations. This way you could have the Tesla
drivers on their way in 30 minutes...

No wait. If 30 minutes is good, 15 would be better!

Make that 3520 volts! I think they make chairs of this voltage already...

Your question is not totally ridiculous, although I don’t think the charging time is just a function of the voltage used. I suspect that the time required at 110 or 220 volts is related to the maximum current that can be provided at those voltages. I believe the Tesla uses lithium-ion batteries and, at least in the RC hobbyist world, these are generally considered to be able to be charged safely in a minimum of one hour. I don’t know if charging at that rate affects the lifespan of the battery. Those are also small batteries, typically of a few Amp-hours capacity at most. OTOH, let’s take a 1,000 A-h battery - to charge it in an hour would require a current of 1,000 Amps. That’s a lot of current, which would require pretty big conductors.

Set a good batch of them spinning and charging homogenous batteries, you pull over for a battery swap-out, not a fill-up.

There you go.... Have a small two wheel trailer with the batteries on it, pull into the swap station, unhook the trailer, hook up the new one with the charged batteries, use the rest room and on your way again... lol.

Well you know, the land is free and except for paying, you know like, the farmers and stuff, food is free, and we all breath air and like, air is free and stuff and the rent is too high because people need shops where they can sell their stuff and vegetables. You know? Stuff should be free!

Depending on the option selected the “S” car may have a 320 mile range.

A network of three phase 480 Volt fast chargers would definitely provide an incentive for more people to go electric. However, you would have to consider that the cost of the fast chargers, from what I’ve read is 45K, and figure most people on most days would recharge at home at night. So, your potential market would only be the very long distance drivers, and considering the time it will take to get a large number of EV’s on the road, you may not recoup your money for the charger for years, or possibly decades, by which time the technology could have changed.

Initially, I see resturants, rest areas etc, having 220V hookups, that would let you get an extra 25-50 miles of range while you stopped for lunch etc. I think that fast charge stations are going to require investment from the car compainies that would lose money on the charger, but make money by creating a market for their electric cars.

Nice idea, but as voltages go up the protective equipment that one has to wear when working with them changes. Of course, if you don't mind wearing Class 2 or 3 Electrical PPE (rated rubber gloves (tested every 6 months) with leather overgloves, long sleeve fire retrardent shirt (11 cal/cu cm. I think), "E" rated hard hat with eye protection and face shield etc.) then you can cook up the voltage and hook up the cord.

In reality, when you go over 250 volts, things are a lot more dangerous. Putting 480V in the hands of the average motorist is like giving flares and black powder to teenagers; someone's going to get dead and that's a certainty.

35
posted on 10/27/2009 7:49:31 AM PDT
by par4
(Proud new member of the racist corps)

- For me, “taking the kids to gramma’s” is a 1000-mile 16-hour trip. Save maybe one sit-down meal, food is drive-thru. Ain’t nothin’ like “recharging” every 400 miles in 5 minutes flat.
- Over 220v, electricity becomes an extreme safety issue. You don’t just double voltage in a family setting. Ditto for increasing current (an issue with fast-charging capacitors).
- Difference between gas & electric: with gas, you extract energy from a stable medium as-needed in small doses; with electric, you in essence convert all that energy all at once then try to contain it. It’s hard to release all the energy from gasoline at once; it’s easy to release all the energy from batteries/capacitors all at once ... the difference makes a huge safety problem.

What simple calculations are you referring to? Lithium batteries take 1 hour to charge. The Tesla simply uses a large array of lithium batteries. If one charge worth’s of electricity flows at 110V in 8 hours, the same amount should flow at 880V in 1 hour... providing you can safely transfer the electricity. My question, and I worded it as a question, (even adding “and this might be in the category of just plain ignorant”) was whether that could be done.

41
posted on 10/27/2009 8:47:26 AM PDT
by dangus
(Nah, I'm not really Jim Thompson, but I play him on FR.)

440 volts is not four 110 volts in parallel. You’re confusing current with voltage.

Let’s put my concern this way:
Would you rather be dropped on your head onto concrete from 110 inches, or from 440 inches?
For safety, let’s add a mattress in the landing zone. The 110 inches now looks survivable. That 440 inches looking any better?
Now, in this context your suggestion is like being dropped 110 inches four times.

Actually, the useful range of a gas Lotus is about the same as the Tesla. The Tesla runs out of battery charge and the Lotus needs a trip to the repair shop (usually with an electrical problem) after about the same number of miles.

48
posted on 10/27/2009 9:18:17 AM PDT
by Fresh Wind
("Prosperity is just around the corner." Herbert Hoover, 1932)

Four separate charging systems with all the safeties in place, sure why not? My point was that when you go over 250 volts you get into arc flash issues. You can't just plug in something with the kVa that you'd need to charge those batteries in a short time. That much current going to ground will vaporize metal, not like sticking a screwdriver across a 120V outlet, but real ionized metal, the kind that will remove body parts and cauterize the wounds instantly.

There's a reason why homeowners ahouldn't try to tie in their houses to the utility lines and they're "only" 120V each. Short out one of those lines with a screwdriver and you'll have a stubby left (if you're lucky).

49
posted on 10/27/2009 9:23:14 AM PDT
by par4
(Proud new member of the racist corps)

We would suggest that folks in California are already too busy driving along those hydrogen highways with their hydrogen stations that the Governator fell in love with rather than develop California boundless untouched oil reserves and allow innovation in oil on a level tax playing field with boondoggles.

50
posted on 10/27/2009 9:49:39 AM PDT
by AmericanVictory
(Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)

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