i have mixed feelings. i think we should give him another chance, but if it happens again, let him walk

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So do I. My feelings for Jolly kind of go up and down. I don't want to give up on the guy but at the same time, I don't think the Packer organization will tolerate this. As much as I love this guys talent, I think ole Johnny is gonna be getting his jollies on some other team.

If he can play he can play. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we have had enough with him and he's either cut or traded. Doubt he'd even be a starter with the troubles anyway so technically depth won't hurt but w/e they do I support it.

I would be willing to bet that Jolly will be arrested again for the same thing in the next 18 months. Then that 5 years of probation will turn into some hard jail time. Keep him take up a roster spot and pay him his big bucks, he can't stay away from the purple drank.

I would be willing to bet that Jolly will be arrested again for the same thing in the next 18 months. Then that 5 years of probation will turn into some hard jail time. Keep him take up a roster spot and pay him his big bucks, he can't stay away from the purple drank.

I think we only have him for a year on contract so if his suspension is lifted I believe we should stick with him for 2011 and part ways after that.

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I think you are trying to be gracious. But I think a message needs to be sent to these over privileged kids. The message is; "You've got an opportunity many will never have. Tow the line and don't screw it up." The way to send this message is to cut ties with him in a loud and clear fashion. Tell the media that the organization fired him because he lacks a sense of responsibility to society and to the team. Then tell the media the team will cut other miscreants who think their NFL status gives them the right to commit crimes with impunity.

I think you are trying to be gracious. But I think a message needs to be sent to these over privileged kids. The message is; "You've got an opportunity many will never have. Tow the line and don't screw it up." The way to send this message is to cut ties with him in a loud and clear fashion. Tell the media that the organization fired him because he lacks a sense of responsibility to society and to the team. Then tell the media the team will cut other miscreants who think their NFL status gives them the right to commit crimes with impunity.

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in my opinion its not the packers job to discipline players. Leave that to the courts and the NFL. Even if he does mess up again its not a position that would leave us DOA.

in my opinion its not the packers job to discipline players. Leave that to the courts and the NFL. Even if he does mess up again its not a position that would leave us DOA.

Either way I am okay with watever the Packers decide to do.

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On a legal side, the Packers are not necessarily the ones to discipline a guy. But on the organizational side, they'd better. If a player misses a whole year because of his behavior off the field it directly affects the performance of the team. What he does off the field can have repercussions for the other guys earning a paycheck. Therefore the company has every right to discipline him.

A couple theoreticals can demonstrate what I'm trying to write;

Jolly misses a whole year because he gets busted for purple drank. Other guys step in and fill his position nicely. Now he comes back and wants his spot back. Let's assume he regains his form. Then the guys who worked their but off to get the team to the Super Bowl get the shaft.

Jolly misses a whole year because he gets busted for purple drank. He can't play, but his money still affects the salary cap. Players who are clean and productive can't get as big a payday because a convict is sucking up their potential resources.

Jolly misses a whole year because he gets busted for purple drank. The Packers can't fill the hole he leaves and that spot becomes the vulnerable point other teams exploit, thus causing the Packers to lose games they could have won.

What I'm saying is that in an organization, no man is an island. All the pieces need to fit together to complement the other pieces. When one of the pieces is broken if affects the whole machine. So replace the piece.

I'm with Croak. It may become a mantra with me, but individuals don't win championships TEAMS do, and what each member does affects the entire team. I think people deserve a second chance, but not necessarily in the same place with the same people. Conduct has consequences, and Jolly needs to face those consequences. He may not be the same, he may have changed, but so have circumstances. Perhaps he can get his second chance with another team, and yes, I understand that it may be with a division rival (though I hope not) but worst case scenario that impacts us for two games (maybe three if playoffs become an issue), but negativity ON the team and WITH the team could affect us for the entire season.

On a legal side, the Packers are not necessarily the ones to discipline a guy. But on the organizational side, they'd better. If a player misses a whole year because of his behavior off the field it directly affects the performance of the team. What he does off the field can have repercussions for the other guys earning a paycheck. Therefore the company has every right to discipline him.

A couple theoreticals can demonstrate what I'm trying to write;

Jolly misses a whole year because he gets busted for purple drank. Other guys step in and fill his position nicely. Now he comes back and wants his spot back. Let's assume he regains his form. Then the guys who worked their but off to get the team to the Super Bowl get the shaft.

Jolly misses a whole year because he gets busted for purple drank. He can't play, but his money still affects the salary cap. Players who are clean and productive can't get as big a payday because a convict is sucking up their potential resources.

Jolly misses a whole year because he gets busted for purple drank. The Packers can't fill the hole he leaves and that spot becomes the vulnerable point other teams exploit, thus causing the Packers to lose games they could have won.

What I'm saying is that in an organization, no man is an island. All the pieces need to fit together to complement the other pieces. When one of the pieces is broken if affects the whole machine. So replace the piece.

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Are you sure if he was suspended his salary would count against the cap? because it didnt this year so I wouldnt expect that to change.

This is a business, not a day care. By all means replace him if you think you can find someone as good that can fill his spot.

But instead of taking the high moral stand, try taking the smart general manager stand. OK so we cut Jolly and Harrell. Then we lose Jenkins to FA. Thats 3 DEs we just lost. Pickett is in his 30s and Neal is coming off of an injury. Yes we could and should take a DE in the draft but to assume instant impact is foolish judging by the avg 1st round rookie impact.

The only move the packers should be making is getting jolly into camp and up to speed. If they feel the need to cut him then it should be done upon the last cuts in camp when they feel they have something as good and less risky. One injury and it would look foolish to make a personnel decision on a whim.

I favor waiving him because just like Harrell (for entirely different reasons, of course), I don't think he can be relied upon and he would take the roster spot of a player who may be able to contribute. IMO Jolly has to move far away from Houston and his old "buddies" to even have a chance at changing - and ultimately saving - his life. If he's unwilling to do that I don't want him in Green & Gold.

However, Jolly is a very talented big man - a valuable commodity in the NFL - and if Thompson decides to give him yet another chance there's nothing we fans can do about it. But if he does I think both the organization and the fan base have to change the idea of "Packers people" or be blatant hypocrites. The NFL may make this decision for the Packers. No matter what happens, the Packers should not count on Jenkins being in Green Bay, or on Harrell or Jolly contributing one play from scrimmage this season.

Are you sure if he was suspended his salary would count against the cap? because it didnt this year so I wouldnt expect that to change.

This is a business, not a day care. By all means replace him if you think you can find someone as good that can fill his spot.

But instead of taking the high moral stand, try taking the smart general manager stand. OK so we cut Jolly and Harrell. Then we lose Jenkins to FA. Thats 3 DEs we just lost. Pickett is in his 30s and Neal is coming off of an injury. Yes we could and should take a DE in the draft but to assume instant impact is foolish judging by the avg 1st round rookie impact.

The only move the packers should be making is getting jolly into camp and up to speed. If they feel the need to cut him then it should be done upon the last cuts in camp when they feel they have something as good and less risky. One injury and it would look foolish to make a personnel decision on a whim.

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Actually, I was trying to make my points based on good business management. Yes there is a moral factor, but as was already mentioned, that is best left up to the courts. A wise manager will see that Jolly has ignored management's instructions in a major way, not once but twice now. In any other business they would show the employee the door, no matter how good he may be. What good is a "good" player who can't consistently be there? He's no good, no matter how much talent he has. Management gave him his chance and he chose to ignore the counsel of management. It's pink slip time based on good business principles.

Maybes and possibles relating to other players are a consideration. But the manager that runs his company on maybes and possibles will lose his competitive edge to fear. Management can best deal with what is in the "now" and not the "possible." What is in the "now" is an employee who won't follow company rules. That kind of employee is a detriment to the company.

but this isnt any other business. This the NFL. You cant compare it to any other business outside of sports. Its a supply and demand business. If we have a large supply of DEs then Jolly will be gone. If not I assume he is back in the fold.

but this isnt any other business. This the NFL. You cant compare it to any other business outside of sports. Its a supply and demand business. If we have a large supply of DEs then Jolly will be gone. If not I assume he is back in the fold.

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Ron Wolf would disagree with you. In his book "The Packer Way" he demonstrates how the business principles he used apply to any business.