Good to see some sense at last but Bens view on home builts is perhaps not quite so sanguine as David would have us believe.

This in reply to Kent Kingstons remarks ,

"Okay I'll pipe up on this one and say do I like it NO, will I over look it, that is some thing I do on a one on one bases..... I would like for people to contact me first and if we agree I may even send you a Revolution corner tab for there kite..... Once again call me first and lets come to terms on the project.... Ben By the way well put Kent and correct...."

I have to admit that I suspected David's eminently sensible position was not Rev's. And having been accused of running a knock off kite factory and being a fakes importer, both based on rumour and heresay, you will excuse me if I don't take revs accusations about albatross as the unquestionable word of the lord.

We seem to have violent agreement - fakes bad, use of design is fine and legal, rev do indeed make upmarket WS4LKs, albatross unproven but willing to listen.

Hi All.i think i have been banned from the rev forum for talking on the said subject.like i said on there, people will copy anything, but it is your choice what you buy.i think them albatross rev look a likes are a better looking than the revs.you pays your money and you take a chance, but for £80 i do not think you can go wrong, if that is what you want.if anyone from the rev forum is looking in, could you tell me why i can't get on the forum.have fun flying what you like.all the best steve.

It wouldn't surprise me pudsli, not so long ago they banned someone from the Rev forum for expressing an opinion about Albatross kites on a completely different peice of webspace. It was infact that banning that made me get an Alba, I figured if they ban someone for it they are probably worth getting and I was right.

I'm not sure if many people know but you can get some of the 'higher end' Alba /4mkite range without lines and handles for around £65 inc P&P. If he doesn't have it up on the site email him and ask. In all honesty I much prefer saving the money than having yet another set of those industrial strength 150lb lines lol. The handles are ok, not as much bend as the revs and lighter but again I just dont need them anymore.

Hmmmm....strangely the whole thread on the Revkite forum seems to have mysteriously vanished! If you try and go in through Zippy's link you get a message saying you do not have permission to view this topic.

Same here. I was contemplating whether or not to take the gamble on an Alba when I heard about this guy being banned, and then saw a very positive review on his web-site. The review plus the banning clinched it for me. Revolution's actions, then and now, really work to warm people towards Albatross, don't they?

The thread indeed seems to have disappeared. When it was closed, it was done with the ominous warning that any postings against Revolution would not be tolerated any longer. Free speech anyone?

Here's another wall of text essay for people to ignore Sorry! I just can't sleep.

As a product the Revolution kite has a quite interesting place in the market. Firstly it is/was a one off, so it had almost a captive audience. They invented it, you buy it from them, that was the deal. It also is quite American centric and has a very loyal userbase from the US which is understandable. They sell the product as not only a quality kite but as an "experience", the "Revolution Experience".

Where this breaks down is when someone introduces a rival product. To the loyal Americans and to some Rev heads in the rest of the world you simply cannot put a price on the "experience". But to some people not of the US like myself the "Experience" means nothing. I never grew up with the Rev, I live thousands of miles away, to me it is just a product from another country which is imho overpriced. To me its a W shaped kite, I find no emotional bond with it apart from its price and how much I try to look after it because of that. I do not go to kite festivals financed by Revolution, I don't get instruction from iQuad, Rev employees or anything. I buy a kite, I take it down the park, dodge the dogs and I learn to fly it myself or with someone else who has one, that is my experience.

What this should tell Revolution is that they should not blame people for finding a cheaper alternatives or even choosing to ignore the unproven possibility that the alternative may have had a dubious background. I simply have no reason, not one, to be loyal to a company from the other side of the world who have kind of dull designs, are expensive and are a one trick pony. But but, Innovation is being compromised....yes maybe but you can only make a W shaped kite so many ways.

All drama they made on the Rev site and THEN bringing it here just made things worse. I can't speak for other nations but many people in my country do not like to be lectured, "educated" or anything else on the decisions they make. We get enough of that already in our nanny state.If they are going to sell to the world in the future they need to learn world deplomacy. Banning people, calling people names, trying a special form of education or whatever just does not cross the pond. Attacking someone for their views has been and always will be the sign of a bully.

As for the deleted post I think it was probably a good idea to do so but maybe not for the same reasons they closed it. I do not advocate going to Revs forum and name calling, but I think if a company is going to survive they need to be able to soak up a bit of criticism. If you can't allow that or only allow the positive then as Dromel said where is the free speech? Just listening to the devout can give a very clouded sense of wellbeing.

As Forest Gump said, and that is that.

I really think we need to let this post die and put poor Greebo's auto reply email to bed lol

Someone needs to start a new post, something like "How to buy a cheap WS4LK when you are $14 Trillion in debt"

To be fair, regarding revkites.com it's rev's webspace, they pay the bills and as publishers they take responsibility for anything that is posted there. If they choose to remove a post or thread that is their right. There is no real free speech on websites in the same way as there is none in other areas of publishing. If you write to the Times they are under no obligation to publish your letter after all. It's for this reason that most corporations avoid forums - if you censor negative posts you look overbearing, if you leave them to run you look like you are officially sanctioning the rubbishing of your company.

Of course the real no-nos if a corporation does have a website are to either rubbish the competition or to say something so controversial that people feel forced to disagree. Insulting and demeaning your customers, as well as calling them jack asses, is also often considered unwise!

Whilst I'm not sure I'm ready to upset revolution, for arguments sake, as I'm effectively earning minimum wage, there is no chance of me affording a xtra vent, what would it cost for someone to teabag a kite for me?i.e. "if" I bought one of these kites, would someone teabag it for me, and how much, hypothetically of course