Stiff Upper Lip, Jeeves Ronny

By Paul Lukas, on June 7th, 2010

Several Pirates players have been growing moustaches lately, but Ronny Cedeno cheated yesterday, giving himself an eye-black ’stache. It’s not clear if this was an early indication of Bryce Harper‘s influence on the diamond, or if Cedeno was simply trying to channel Bobby V. Either way, I don’t think Goose Gossage’s place atop MLB’s all-time fu manchu rankings is threatened. (Thanks to Jason Thomas for the screen shot.)

New ESPN column today. In fact, it’s going to be quite a week for Uni Watch over on Page 2. On the one hand, I’ll have new columns running for four consecutive days, which is unprecedented. But almost none of the content in those columns will be written by me, because they’ll be covering the World Cup, a topic I’m ill-equipped to discuss. Fortunately, I was able to secure the services of four extremely soccer-knowledgeable readers — Doug Mulliken, Michael Orr, Kent Green, and Patrick Runge — who’ve provided their own expert analyses of the Cup kits. Their commentary begins today with coverage of the teams in Groups A and B. Then we’ll have Groups C and D tomorrow, and so on. OK? OK.

Playography, revisited: Remember the Playograph, the animatronic scoreboard that I wrote about back in December? Shorpy has just posted two absolutely spectacular photos of a similar device called the Coleman Lifelike Scoreboard, including a shot of the guys operating the device from behind the scenes. How cool is that?! If only we could see video footage of how these things looked in action.

Love it or hate it, it’s been nearly 30 years now: Later this week I’m going to be interviewing the man who designed the Bengals’ tiger-striped helmet. I have lots of questions for him, but it occurs to me that you folks might have some interesting questions of your own. So if you have any queries you’d like me to pass along to him, send them this-a-way.

And he probably had a hangnail to boot: Not uni-related, but it’s worth noting that by far the most entertaining coverage of Oliver Perez’s new “injury” came from Newsday columnist Ken Davidoff. Unfortunately, newsday.com is no longer a free site, so I can’t link to Davidoff’s column. I can copy/paste, however, so here’s how Davidoff envisioned the Perez situation unfolding the other day:

(Scene: Jerry Manuel’s office. Friday afternoon.)

Manuel (writing his memoirs, speaking the words out loud): ”¦ and that’s why I decided to bat Alex Cora second.

(Enter Oliver Perez)

Manuel: Hey, Ollie! What’s going on?

Perez: Meineke Hearts.

Manuel: Exsqueeze me? You want me to take my car to Meineke?

Perez (focuses on the words written on his left hand): Sorry. I practiced this and everything, but you know how sometimes you can’t read your own handwriting? (Clears throat.) My … knee … hurts.

Manuel (darts up from his chair): Yes! That is outstand– I mean, sorry to hear that, Ollie. Which knee?

(Perez squints at his left hand, trying to determine the answer)

Manuel: Don’t worry, Ollie. I’ll just assume it’s the one that got surgery. Um … you did have surgery last year, right? That wasn’t just a cover story?

(Perez again squints at his left hand.)

Manuel: Never mind, never mind. I’ll call Omar, and we’ll get this done.

(Curtain closes)

Fire Joe Morgan Wayne Hagin: Mets outfielder Angel Pagan appeared on the team’s radio pregame show yesterday. He had attended Saturday night’s Cotto/Foreman fight at Yankee Stadium, so they asked him about that, and at one point he mentioned how it had been 36 years since the Ali/Norton heavyweight title fight at the old Yankee Stadium.

When Pagan came to bat in the bottom of the 1st inning, Mets radio play-by-play man Howie Rose mentioned the pregame boxing discussion. That led his sidekick Wayne Hagin to weigh in thusly: “He also knew his boxing history, knew it was 36 years ago when Ken Norton would fight Muhammad Ali at Yankee Stadium. He was on top of it.”

The problem is that the fight in question took place in 1976, which means it was thirty-four years ago. I don’t care that Pagan got this wrong (I just want him to hit the cut-off man and take a few pitches when Reyes gets on ahead of him). But couldn’t Hagin have invested 20 seconds’ worth of Google legwork into the situation instead of just blindly repeating Pagan’s misinformation? It didn’t exactly help matters that Hagin said this, as he says almost everything, with an air of knowing righteousness.

This small but telling error is classic Hagin, a guy who rarely seems to do his homework, always chimes in with the pitch-imperfect comment, and has basically become unlistenable. Since hitting town in 2008, he’s shown himself to be the broadcasting equivalent of a four-A ballplayer: His voice is a fairly serviceable instrument, but he doesn’t have the presence or sophistication to deploy it effectively. His sensibility — let’s call it suburban lite — is far too white-bread for New York and makes for a tragic mismatch with Rose, who’s a New Yorker to his core (and a much savvier announcer besides).

Hagin leans far too heavily on overheated decriptors and repetition. It’s never “a nice catch”; it’s always “an outstanding catch, I want to tell you, just a wonderful, wonderful play,” all delivered in that annoyingly righteous tone that sounds like a father imparting life lessons to a 12-year-old. By insisting that every play is exceptional, Hagin instead conveys the notion that none of them are.

He also gets himself in trouble when his mouth writes checks that his brain can’t cash. Example: Out of nowhere, he’ll drop the word “however” into a sentence, even though he’s not counterpointing anything. You can hear him realize this type of mistake as he’s making it, and then he ends up wandering down a blind rhetorical alley in an attempt to make the misplaced term make sense. This would be amusing if it weren’t such torture to listen to.

Similarly, go back to Hagin’s quote about Pagan, where he said that Pagan “knew it was 36 years ago when Ken Norton would fight Muhammad Ali.” What’s with the “would fight”? How about “fought”? No, it’s not a big thing by itself, but a few dozen of those mangled phrasings per game add up.

Hagin is the less important voice in the less important broadcasting booth of New York’s less important MLB team, so he’s pretty much flown under the radar of local media critics like Neil Best and Richard Sandomir. That needs to change. For those of us who love to hear baseball on the radio, Hagin has become a serious impediment to our enjoyment of the game.

Rose is a Uni Watch reader and booster, and he probably doesn’t like that I’m picking on his partner (sorry, Howie). I have nothing against Hagin personally, mind you — never met him, never communicated with him, and for all I know he’s a great guy. But he’s out of his depth here, and he needs to be held accountable. I’ll be doing lots of that in the weeks to come.

And they’ll no longer say a batter who’s hit by a pitch has been “drilled”: The Brevard County Manatees — a single-A team in the Brewers system — have responded to the Gulf oil disaster in an unusual manner: They’ve stopped calling batting practice “BP.” Former MLB pitcher Ismael Valdez could not be reached for comment.

In a vaguely related item, I’m not claiming I predicted the Gulf oil spill or anything, but back in 2000 I was writing for a now-defunct site called MarketingInfo.com, and I had a little something to say about a rebranding scheme that had just been unveiled by BP (then known as BP Amoco). If you’re curious, I’ve reprinted what I wrote at the time, verbatim, here.

Meanwhile, rumors that I’m trying to figure out how to blame the oil spill on Nike are almost completely unfounded.

(Composite BP/Sherwin-Williams/Oilers logo created by Uni Watch webmaster John Ekdahl, by the way.)

Culinary Corner: In my recent Scotland vacation report, I mentioned that I had enjoyed a sweet treat called tablet. I brought back a hunk of the stuff for my cat-sitter (along with some whisky) but neglected to bring any for myself — an oversight I quickly found myself regretting. So I figured I’d just cook my own homemade tablet. How hard could it be?

Not hard at all, as it turns out, although it’s a bit disconcerting to encounter a recipe whose primary ingredients are five-plus cups of sugar, a can of sweetened condensed milk (which is mostly sugar), and nearly a stick of butter. No wonder it tastes so good.

Anyway: The above-linked recipe is easy to follow. Here’s how the cooked tablet looked after I poured it into a pan and allowed it to set. It’s a little tricky to cut — it wants to break into shards, so you end up with lots of irregularly shaped pieces, but I kinda like that.

And how does it taste? Ridiculously sweet, but very, very good. Highly recommended. Next time I’ll try adding some flavorings, like coffee and/or chocolate. Or maybe I’ll just make a batch of coffee ice cream and use the tablet as an add-in. Actually, that sounds really good — full report to follow shortly.

Giveaway Reminder: Today’s the last day to enter the giveaway for the three PC-to-TV converters. For details, look here.

Uni Watch News Ticker: Jonathan Toews’s helmet broke during last night’s Flyers/’Hawks game. Instead of leaving the ice at the next whistle, he simply grabbed Patrick Sharp’s helmet, resulting in a jersey/helmet uni number mismatch (good work by Jeff Czuba). ”¦ Wayne Peltz, the assistant visitors’ clubhouse manager at the Jake, has an interesting hobby: He creates ballplayer portraits out of Lego. ”¦ Great contribution from Ricko, who writes: “To the best of my knowledge (and I was watching like a hawk at the time), this is the first color photo ever published of the Minnesota Vikings’ uniforms. It’s from a football preview edition of the Minneapolis Star & Tribune and was photographed at the team’s training camp in Bemidji (yes, their early camps were north of the Cities, not south in Mankato). At this point, Fran Tarkenton was a relatively unknown rookie. George Shaw (#14) had a been acquired in a trade with the Giants and was expected to be the quarterback. Anyway, note the original striped socks.” ”¦ Mets reliever Pedro Feliciano routinely wears either a braided Phiten necklace (often paired with a much thinner Phiten model, as seen in that photo) or a white shell necklace. But on Friday he came in from the bullpen wearing the braided necklace and the shell necklace. That was apparently too much, as the umps made him remove the shell accessory. ”¦ Hey, speaking of Bryce Harper (well, a few thousand words ago), anyone know what he writes on his underbrim? ”¦ Bruce Menard sent along a batch of vintage baseball-themed ads. ”¦ The NBA has unveiled next year’s All-Star Game logo. ”¦ Here’s an intriguing issue to ponder: Are sports boring? NYC-area readers can see this burning question debated at a forum taking place tomorrow night.

I feel confident knocking MLB players for wearing some @#%&*! gay necklace on the field. Not that it makes him a bad player. . ..

Not so cool when it come to R Cedeno, blacking his upper lip. When I was 18 I did the same thing because my own ‘stache was slow in growing back in. Quickly learned as did Richard Nixon, upper lips sweat. Not a good look.

teenchy|
June 7, 2010 at 8:51 am |

Thanks for sharing your BP Amoco rebranding piece – eerily prescient and well written. Though I know this has become your passion, that made me want to read more of your non-uni-related writing.

Glenn|
June 7, 2010 at 9:06 am |

Wayne Hagin is a complete douche. He used to be part of the Colorado Rockies radio broadcast team until a few years ago, and left to St. Louis. After he left, he got himself essentially banned from the Rockies’ clubhouse by implying in an interview that Todd Helton was juicing up in the manner of Bonds/McGwire. He then tried to say that wasn’t what he really meant, but too late.

marc|
June 7, 2010 at 9:15 am |

“speaking of Bryce Harper (well, a few thousand words ago), anyone know what he writes on his underbrim?”

[quote comment=”393275″]I’m amazed that Wayne Hagin has kept falling up. He was no great shakes before defaming the Rockies’ biggest star, then gigs with the Cards and Mets? What’s next, the Supreme Court?[/quote]
He’ll be the next Head Coach at USC.

Mett|
June 7, 2010 at 9:30 am |

The bashing of Wayne Hagin is funny coming from this site. The holier than thou attitude should not be a surprise. Considering it is a bunch of grown men discussing sports fashions… I read the site as a diversion, something to take me away from the grinds of the real world and my job. The problem is this is your job. Give me a break!

To ATTACK Wayne is beyond me. Want to criticize uniforms and fashion hosiery, go ahead. Don’t stoop to personal attacks or individuals. It makes you petty and infantile.

Is he as good as Bob Murphy? Ralph Kiner or Lindsey Nelson? No. But he ain’t no homer either and on the radio he makes listening to the game mentally visual. By the way the Ralph also made mistakes regularly when he was full time on WOR and SC. He butchered more names than you could shake a stick at. But nobody ever held it against him.

Wayne is also a nice guy. I have met him on numerous occasions and he has always had a kind word for me. He doesn’t know me, but he would take the time to speak to me about anything and he was genuinely interested in conversing with me. Wayne Hagin is okay in my book. Why don’t you get over yourselves instead. Look within, don’t lash out at others.

Gusto44|
June 7, 2010 at 9:32 am |

[quote comment=”393276″]I had no idea Christina Applegate had been around so long!

That’s actually # 39, Hugh McElhenny(spelling) in the background. The hall of fame RB was near the end of his career in 1961.

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 9:32 am |

[quote comment=”393272″][quote comment=”393269″]”speaking of Bryce Harper (well, a few thousand words ago), anyone know what he writes on his underbrim?”

It kinda looks like “Gort, Klaatu barada nikto.”[/quote]

WIN
Play ?? Win

or

WIN
Play ?? WFM[/quote]

“I am the Ultimate WarriaaaaaaaaaaRR!”

Dank|
June 7, 2010 at 9:32 am |

Lakers got what they deserved last night for benching the best home uni in the NBA, a BIG L!

marc|
June 7, 2010 at 9:33 am |

[quote comment=”393270″]I sincerely hope that Hagin is not what makes Howie Rose seem so good at what he does.

His “put it in the books” has become a sure sign of summer for me![/quote]

Sounds like Hagin would annoy the crap outta me. Annoying on a much lesser scale is Tom Hamilton, the main play-by-play guy for the Indians. He is very good at what he does (he’s great at mentioning the score often), however, he tends to get hyper-excited to the point where it sounds like he’s about to fall out of the booth whenever there’s a big play… or when it just looks like one. This is awesome when they’re down by two in the ninth and someone crushes a three-run shot, but when it’s a scoreless game in the fourth with nobody on and the batter hits a deep fly that gets caught in the wind and dies about 10 yards before the track, it gets annoying. It’s like he’s trying to bring playoff-level intensity to a game in May against the Os. I love his enthusiasm… when it’s warranted, but those other times it like, “Geez, Hammy, back off the throttle a tad.”

[quote comment=”393278″]I read the site as a diversion, something to take me away from the grinds of the real world and my job. The problem is this is your job.[/quote]

Sorry, how is that a problem..?

You have every right to critique this site, just as I have every right to critique Wayne Hagin’s work. If you put your work out in the public domain, it’s going to be assessed. That’s not “bashing”; that’s life.

Hank|
June 7, 2010 at 9:41 am |

[quote comment=”393269″]”speaking of Bryce Harper (well, a few thousand words ago), anyone know what he writes on his underbrim?”

Perhaps lost in all the tributes to the coaching giant that is john Wooden were the great shots of those classic UCLA uniforms and warm-ups from the 60s and 70s. Also, love the STAFF jacket he was known to wear! Could we see some as a remembrance to not only a great coach but one that choose great unis?

I am not certain about the underbrim of the hat but in a pasted BA issue, there is a cover picture of him and he has “Luke 1:37” inscribed on his bat. He is LDS so I would figure the hat message to be of similar content.

Paul,
I don’t beleive you are a Mets fan. Wayne Hagan while not Howie Rose or even Gary Cohen is a million times better than John Sterling and Suzyn Waldman. And Michael Kay when he did Yankees radio was horrendous.

If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?

Oooo… it’s such a shame Boingo wound things up with a piss-poor cover of that song. I long for the days of “Good For Your Soul.”

DMuir|
June 7, 2010 at 10:29 am |

According to the SI article that was written on Bryce Harper, “2 min. of fury, it says inside his cap, a reference to the time of the average plate appearance.”

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 10:33 am |

[quote comment=”393296″]According to the SI article that was written on Bryce Harper, “2 min. of fury, it says inside his cap, a reference to the time of the average plate appearance.”[/quote]

Which – incidently – was also the way the Warrior liked to conduct his matches.

JTH|
June 7, 2010 at 10:34 am |

Are sports boring? Arun Gupta says yes.

Doesn’t the fact he’s interested in sports enough to go so far as to debate this question publicly kind of undercut his position?

LI Phil|
June 7, 2010 at 10:35 am |

[quote comment=”393296″] “2 min. of fury”[/quote]

or, what joe west experiences between each pitch of a yankee sawks game

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 10:37 am |

[quote comment=”393297″][quote comment=”393296″]According to the SI article that was written on Bryce Harper, “2 min. of fury, it says inside his cap, a reference to the time of the average plate appearance.”[/quote]

Which – incidently – was also the way the Warrior liked to conduct his matches.[/quote]

(incidentally, as well)

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 10:56 am |

[quote comment=”393279″][quote comment=”393276″]I had no idea Christina Applegate had been around so long!

That’s actually # 39, Hugh McElhenny(spelling) in the background. The hall of fame RB was near the end of his career in 1961.[/quote]

I was referring to the young lady with her feet at a very odd angle. I’ve never thought of Applegate of having much of an NFL build.

Andy|
June 7, 2010 at 10:57 am |

[quote comment=”393283″][quote comment=”393278″]I read the site as a diversion, something to take me away from the grinds of the real world and my job. The problem is this is your job.[/quote]

Sorry, how is that a problem..?

You have every right to critique this site, just as I have every right to critique Wayne Hagin’s work. If you put your work out in the public domain, it’s going to be assessed. That’s not “bashing”; that’s life.[/quote]

I offer a critique, a decade after the fact:

“…or Frank Purdue signing on as a spokesman for vegetarianism.”

Surely you’re thinking of Frank Perdue.

Anyway, kudos to you, Paul, that your job is the diversion others use to get away from theirs. Sounds like this guy is envious that you’re doing what you really set out to do, on your own terms.

I think I’d call your job a problem, Paul, if you got paid up to $20 million per year to work out, keep in shape, memorize a playbook and run around on a field with a bunch of other guys a few dozen times per year. I do all that in addition to my 9-5, and will never come close to making $20 million in a lifetime.

Glenn|
June 7, 2010 at 10:58 am |

[quote comment=”393278″]
To ATTACK Wayne is beyond me.
Wayne is also a nice guy. I have met him on numerous occasions and he has always had a kind word for me. He doesn’t know me, but he would take the time to speak to me about anything and he was genuinely interested in conversing with me. Wayne Hagin is okay in my book.[/quote]

Hagin might be a personable guy, but I only called him out for comments he made after he left Colorado. He may be “ok”, but the weak attempt to justify his comments, saying afterward of “I never meant to imply that Todd Helton took steroids” after a direct quote of “You know who was on the juice? Todd Helton. I know, because he told me” is extremely weak and hollow. If Helton had ever been accused or implicated in any other situation regarding steroids or performance-enhancing drugs, maybe Hagin could have received the benefit of the doubt, but that has never been the case.

marc|
June 7, 2010 at 11:00 am |

This makes me think of at-bat player portraits that used to be on this.

[quote comment=”393292″]Paul,
I don’t beleive you are a Mets fan. Wayne Hagan while not Howie Rose or even Gary Cohen is a million times better than John Sterling and Suzyn Waldman. And Michael Kay when he did Yankees radio was horrendous.

If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?[/quote]

Not that Paul needs me to defend him, but I’ll take a stab that he doesn’t critique Sterling and Waldman because he doesn’t listen to them because he’s a METS FAN!

Matt Beahan|
June 7, 2010 at 11:10 am |

Paul, if you want your tablet in even-sized pieces, just score it before it’s fully set.

My favourite tablet recipe is basically the same as the one you’re using, although I only use around 850g of sugar, and I usually finish off with a layer of dark chocolate on top…

[quote comment=”393294″]Sorry… just noticed this on ESPN’s NFL site and my inner 14 year old couldn’t resist.

(Get well soon, Ed!)[/quote]

If you think that’s bad, a few months ago WQXR, the classical music station in NYC, nyphil.org not to be confused with li phil, was featuring an artist whom they described as a “magnificent pianist” and that her music was incredibly satisfying…her name…..

[quote comment=”393305″][quote comment=”393292″]Paul,
I don’t beleive you are a Mets fan. Wayne Hagan while not Howie Rose or even Gary Cohen is a million times better than John Sterling and Suzyn Waldman. And Michael Kay when he did Yankees radio was horrendous.

If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?[/quote]

Not that Paul needs me to defend him, but I’ll take a stab that he doesn’t critique Sterling and Waldman because he doesn’t listen to them because he’s a METS FAN![/quote]

I am a baseball fan first.
Then I will listen to which ever NY team is playing.
I prefer to listen to the Mets because of Rose and Hagin.
I think that they work well together…and are made to sound 10 million times better because Sterling and Waldman are atrocious!

JimV19|
June 7, 2010 at 11:20 am |

[quote comment=”393298″]Are sports boring? Arun Gupta says yes.

Doesn’t the fact he’s interested in sports enough to go so far as to debate this question publicly kind of undercut his position?[/quote]

Since I won’t be there, here are my two cents. Endless replays and commercial breaks are boring. Overofficiating and overhyping of sports are boring. Gamesmanship (flopping, time-wasting) and poor sportsmanship are boring. The games themselves, however, are not boring.

Sure, not every game deserves to be replayed on ESPN Classic. But during a game, you have some of the greatest live dramas (or the best reality TV) ever. If properly officiated and played, you just don’t know what’s going to happen. You never know ahead of time if you’re going to witness a perfect game, the greatest comeback in history, the greatest upset or just one barn-burner of a good game. The anticipation is what makes the games not boring.

Notice I didn’t say bad uniforms are boring, though…unless every team looked exactly the same. They may take away from one’s enjoyment of a game, but bad unis, mixed in with good ones, can add some interest. They definitely give this site the fuel it needs to continue.

Mett|
June 7, 2010 at 11:28 am |

Paul, You weren’t critiquing his work… you were bashing him.

Why don’t you interview the man and then get a feel.

Besides, I thought the site was Uniwatch.com, not RadioBroadcasterWatch.com

bourbon soaked idiot|
June 7, 2010 at 11:29 am |

[quote comment=”393305″][quote comment=”393292″]Paul,
I don’t beleive you are a Mets fan. Wayne Hagan while not Howie Rose or even Gary Cohen is a million times better than John Sterling and Suzyn Waldman. And Michael Kay when he did Yankees radio was horrendous.

If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?[/quote]

Not that Paul needs me to defend him, but I’ll take a stab that he doesn’t critique Sterling and Waldman because he doesn’t listen to them because he’s a METS FAN![/quote]

Since I won’t be there, here are my two cents. Endless replays and commercial breaks are boring. Overofficiating and overhyping of sports are boring. Gamesmanship (flopping, time-wasting) and poor sportsmanship are boring. The games themselves, however, are not boring.

Sure, not every game deserves to be replayed on ESPN Classic. But during a game, you have some of the greatest live dramas (or the best reality TV) ever. If properly officiated and played, you just don’t know what’s going to happen. You never know ahead of time if you’re going to witness a perfect game, the greatest comeback in history, the greatest upset or just one barn-burner of a good game. The anticipation is what makes the games not boring.

Notice I didn’t say bad uniforms are boring, though…unless every team looked exactly the same. They may take away from one’s enjoyment of a game, but bad unis, mixed in with good ones, can add some interest. They definitely give this site the fuel it needs to continue.[/quote]

Great take, Jim. Maybe it’s just the “old guy in me, but I liked sports better when the only coverage you got was the last 5 minutes of the newscast featuring the scores scrolling by (vertically) and the following days’ sports page. Player’s personal lives, for better or worse, were left off the record (for the most part) and the only place you ever heard about agents were in James Bond movies. Today, like with every form of news and entertainment, there’s just way more information out there than is necessary.

LI Phil|
June 7, 2010 at 11:32 am |

[quote comment=”393292″]
If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?[/quote]

because shooting fish in a barrel is easier

i seriously feel badly for blind yankee fans, because sterling never accurately describes what has (usually in the past tense — the only time things are in the present tense is when he breaks into “IT IS HIGH….IT IS FAR….IT IS…[slight pause, realizing it was can of corn] caughtbyrobbiecanodontyaknow”) actually taken place on the field of play

if i watch a yankee telecast, i usually do so with the radio on because kay is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to listen to — and one would be shocked to hear sterling describe a game that is plainly not taking place on the field in front of him

[quote comment=”393311″]Paul, You weren’t critiquing his work… you were bashing him.
[/quote]
Demonstrably untrue. Every single criticism was about Hagin’s preparation, word choice and general radio presence.

[quote comment=”393312″][quote comment=”393305″][quote comment=”393292″]Paul,
I don’t beleive you are a Mets fan. Wayne Hagan while not Howie Rose or even Gary Cohen is a million times better than John Sterling and Suzyn Waldman. And Michael Kay when he did Yankees radio was horrendous.

If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?[/quote]

Not that Paul needs me to defend him, but I’ll take a stab that he doesn’t critique Sterling and Waldman because he doesn’t listen to them because he’s a METS FAN![/quote]

Oh Please… Paul likes the color purple more than he likes the Mets.[/quote]

This should be good. Everyone please carry on with this line of thought. I’ll stand back and watch.

[quote comment=”393314″][quote comment=”393292″]
If the Mets are the less important team in New York than why don’t you pick on Sterling and Waldman?[/quote]

because shooting fish in a barrel is easier

i seriously feel badly for blind yankee fans, because sterling never accurately describes what has (usually in the past tense — the only time things are in the present tense is when he breaks into “IT IS HIGH….IT IS FAR….IT IS…[slight pause, realizing it was can of corn] caughtbyrobbiecanodontyaknow”) actually taken place on the field of play

if i watch a yankee telecast, i usually do so with the radio on because kay is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to listen to — and one would be shocked to hear sterling describe a game that is plainly not taking place on the field in front of him[/quote]
You’re right – the Yankee broadcast team, radio and television, is thoroughly dreadful.

Adam|
June 7, 2010 at 11:40 am |

You’re right – the Yankee broadcast team, radio and television, is thoroughly dreadful.[/quote]

I wish the YES network site would tell us each series which broadcasters are going to be calling the game. For example, this weekend, Mike K was missing and the 3 game series was a delight to listen to on YES

[quote comment=”393287″]Perhaps lost in all the tributes to the coaching giant that is john Wooden were the great shots of those classic UCLA uniforms and warm-ups from the 60s and 70s. Also, love the STAFF jacket he was known to wear! Could we see some as a remembrance to not only a great coach but one that choose great unis?

And those unis are still great. Repeating myself here, but teams like Alabama and Notre Dame in football, the Yankees in baseball, and UCLA in basketball stand the test of time with their uniforms.

JimV19|
June 7, 2010 at 12:00 pm |

[quote comment=”393311″]Besides, I thought the site was Uniwatch.com, not RadioBroadcasterWatch.com[/quote]

Don’t know anything about Wayne Hagin, so this is my only comment:

I believe game announcers fall under the broader scope of what Paul calls the study of athletics aesthetics. Audio aesthetics in this case, but aesthetics nonetheless.

Announcers can make or break a game for me. For instance, If Duke played Ohio State in college basketball, I’d find something else to watch…unless Verne Lundquist and Bill Raftery are calling the game. Then I’m in, even though those are my least favorite teams.

I’ve also watched games between my favorite teams where I’ve had to turn down the sound because of bad announcers. Or, if I’m listening on the radio, I’d go to music and just get occasional score updates.

As a radio listener (a.k.a. a customer of the station’s service), Paul has a right to his opinion, as you do yours.

Speaking of game announcers, does anyone listen to the WGN guys for the White Sox?
Those guys are literally cheering for the team. I have never heard anything like it!
When a deep fly ball is hit by a Sox player its “Stretch! Go, go go!! YES!!!”
Its like that all game long too.

Now I live in San Francisco and don’t give much thought to the Sox, but since its baseball I will occasionally turn their games on.
And I realize they are the home announcers, but I thought even so there was supposed to be SOME impartiality.
Whenever someone accuses the Giants announcers of being homers, all I have to do is tell them to tune in a WGN White Sox game to see how its REALLY done.

Embarrassing.

RS Rogers|
June 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm |

Not “hitting rehearsal.” That’ll never catch on. How about “batting drills”? After all, musicians practice, dancers rehears, but soldiers drill.

Glenn|
June 7, 2010 at 12:31 pm |

[quote comment=”393332″]Speaking of game announcers, does anyone listen to the WGN guys for the White Sox?
Those guys are literally cheering for the team. I have never heard anything like it!
When a deep fly ball is hit by a Sox player its “Stretch! Go, go go!! YES!!!”
Its like that all game long too.

Now I live in San Francisco and don’t give much thought to the Sox, but since its baseball I will occasionally turn their games on.
And I realize they are the home announcers, but I thought even so there was supposed to be SOME impartiality.
Whenever someone accuses the Giants announcers of being homers, all I have to do is tell them to tune in a WGN White Sox game to see how its REALLY done.

Embarrassing.[/quote]

being totally “homer” like that is a Chicago tradition, and it doesn’t just apply to the Sox. It seems to apply to all teams/sports in Chicago.

LI Phil|
June 7, 2010 at 12:34 pm |

now that the MLB network is firmly entrenched, i hear more of santo than i ever cared to hear…

i wonder, if he’s ever fired, if the every the hed of every media outlet covering the story will simply read, “he gone”

RS Rogers|
June 7, 2010 at 12:35 pm |

[quote comment=”393332″]Speaking of game announcers, does anyone listen to the WGN guys for the White Sox?
Those guys are literally cheering for the team. I have never heard anything like it!
When a deep fly ball is hit by a Sox player its “Stretch! Go, go go!! YES!!!”
Its like that all game long too.[/quote]

The Nats TV team is half as bad as that. Bob Carpenter is a great play-by-play man, maybe my favorite in baseball today. But color man Rob Dibble is an embarrassment. He rarely has anything useful to say, and when he does speak, half the time he’s just rooting like a fan. “Go, go!” he’ll mumble on an infield hit, and it’s like he doesn’t even realize he’s speaking out loud.

I wind up spending most of any Nats game wishing that they’d let Debbie Taylor, the award-winning female sideline reporter, try her hand at color commentary. It’s just such a mistake to assume that the color guy has to be a former player. Mostly, there’s a reason the person in question became an athlete and not a broadcaster in the first place.

I agree the current unis should be burned, but I love that helmet.[/quote]

Interestingly, not a single reader has submitted a question for the designer so far. That’s fine — I have tons of questions for him myself — but I’m a little surprised.[/quote]

Been thinking about it. At the moment, I have four, although the phrasing is still weak. But here they are:

1. Before creating the tiger-striped helmet, were you aware of Paul Brown’s first abortive steps in that direction?

2. What was management’s initial response to what was a fairly radical re-design?

3. Are you aware of what Paul Brown thought of the design?

4. What was your reaction to the Bengals’ 2004 design overhaul, first when you learned that the Bengals were making sweeping changes to the uniform, and later when you learned that your helmet design was the only element to remain unchanged?

being totally \”homer\” like that is a Chicago tradition, and it doesn\’t just apply to the Sox. It seems to apply to all teams/sports in Chicago.[/quote]

“No one in Chicago has a problem with it?” is a question. I don’t know, I don’t live there, and don’t go out of my way to survey the pulse of Chicago.
Apparently SOME people don’t, Stone, WGN & the White Sox among them.
I am not even saying he is a bad paly by play guy, I only take exception to his overboard rooting for the white sox.

It’s truly shameful.

No one in Chicago has a problem with it? I almost literally can\’t listen to it.
Is it like that anywhere else?

Lee[/quote]
What gives you the impression that nobody in Chicago has a problem with it?

Also, you say “those guys” but you’re specifically referring to Hawk Harrelson’s broadcasting style. Steve Stone is one of the best color commentators in baseball.[/quote]

being totally \”homer\” like that is a Chicago tradition, and it doesn\’t just apply to the Sox. It seems to apply to all teams/sports in Chicago.[/quote]

No one in Chicago has a problem with it? I almost literally can\’t listen to it.
Is it like that anywhere else?

Lee[/quote]
What gives you the impression that nobody in Chicago has a problem with it?

Also, you say “those guys” but you’re specifically referring to Hawk Harrelson’s broadcasting style. Steve Stone is one of the best color commentators in baseball.[/quote]

“No one in Chicago has a problem with it?” is a question. I don’t know, I don’t live there, and don’t go out of my way to survey the pulse of Chicago.
Apparently SOME people don’t, Stone, WGN & the White Sox among them.
I am not even saying he is a bad paly by play guy, I only take exception to his overboard rooting for the white sox.

It’s truly shameful.

Lee

JimV19|
June 7, 2010 at 12:55 pm |

I don’t mind a little homerism with the local announcers. They are employees of the team, after all. But yes, a little impartiality is to be expected. What I don’t like are the manic-depressive homers who shout when the home team does something good, but then become utterly deflated when they do something bad. Acknowledge and respect great plays from both teams, not just the “good guys.”

Other things that come to mind:

– Color announcers, learn to start your comments with something other than, “Good job by so-and-so” or “Great job by so-and-so.” There was a guy in Canada who, if you played a drinking game using those phrases, would get you drunk by the end of the first quarter.

– Play-by-play guys, learn from Jon Miller. Have an egg timer in your booth, and when the sand runs to the bottom, make sure you give the score including the names of both teams. This is very important if you’re driving around trying to listen to out-of-town games on the radio.

– It also helps to use the team name in conjunction with the players’ names. For instance, you may say, “Rebound Smith, gets the ball out to Jones,” but if you’re a casual listener who may not know all the players, try “Rebound Wildcats. Smith with the ball, passes to Jones…”

– The phrase “They’re moving from left to right on your radio dial” has been done. And done some more. Yes, establish a sense of direction, but don’t use that same exact wording. I used to have a little fun with that, saying, “Akron moving from my right to my left, but if you’re listening in Cuyahoga Falls they’re moving left to right.”

– Finally, this one’s straight out of the Marty Glickman handbook: it’s “As I said,” not “Like I said.” You may or may not be paid big money to call games on the air, but make it sound as if you are. Regional twangs or expressions are fine, but overall, use decent English.

JTH|
June 7, 2010 at 1:04 pm |

[quote comment=”393342″]
“No one in Chicago has a problem with it?” is a question. I don’t know, I don’t live there, and don’t go out of my way to survey the pulse of Chicago.[/quote]
“No one in Chicago has a problem with it?” reads as an expression of incredulity.

Something along the lines of “How does the average Sox fan feel about Hawk’s style?” I would take as a question.

And, um, if you are indeed want an answer to that question, you’re contradicting yourself by saying that you don’t go out of your way to survey the pulse of Chicago.

[quote comment=”393330″]What makes the Mets “less important” than the Yankees? That’s just stupid.[/quote]

No, that’s reality. The Yankees are more successful, have a deeper history, draw more fans, have a bigger TV audience, charge higher ad rates, and are basically the tail that wags the dog of an entire industry. I don’t like that it’s that way, but make no mistake — it IS that way.

[quote comment=”393344″][quote comment=”393342″]
“No one in Chicago has a problem with it?” is a question. I don’t know, I don’t live there, and don’t go out of my way to survey the pulse of Chicago.[/quote]
“No one in Chicago has a problem with it?” reads as an expression of incredulity.

Something along the lines of “How does the average Sox fan feel about Hawk’s style?” I would take as a question.

And, um, if you are indeed want an answer to that question, you’re contradicting yourself by saying that you don’t go out of your way to survey the pulse of Chicago.

Oh make no mistake, I am indeed incredulous. But it was still a question.

Btw, having done a little digging, it seems the ONLY people who like the “Hawk” are some (not even all of them) of the White Sox fans. If you aren’t somehow connected to the Sox, he is pretty much reviled. I am relieved to learn.

Also, Ricko makes a cameo at the 3:20 mark, although you may need a keen eye to spot him.[/quote]

1)how perfect is it that ricko was lurking behind the blue jay dinger. hysterical.

2)today’s post was exceptional

3)dag~gum~it, the hawk is the hawk. sure, if you are not a sox fan(i am), he can be a bit much, but i like the guy mostly. i can’t argue, he is for sure a homer, but he isn’t afraid to crit the team either. that being said there are tons of sox fans who don’t like him, and there are at least a half dozen sites dedicated to his dismissal. as for stone, he might be the best colour guy in the history of baseball. hyperbole? maybe, but he is very good. i might have gotten a bit of a nudge when i first heard he was going to do sox radio, and then tv, it was a couple of dark years without him in a chicago booth.

I have one question about the Bengals’ helmet before I start studying for a final:

What do you think about having your helmet paired with a jersey it wasn’t designed to go with?

concealed78|
June 7, 2010 at 1:34 pm |

I really don’t see what the big deal is on the Bengals helmet. What exactly is so radical about it? It’s no different to me than Vikings & Rams horns, bengal pattern reminds me of the Charger’s use of bolts of lightning.

[quote comment=”393349″]3)dag~gum~it, the hawk is the hawk. sure, if you are not a sox fan(i am), he can be a bit much, but i like the guy mostly. i can’t argue, he is for sure a homer, but he isn’t afraid to crit the team either. that being said there are tons of sox fans who don’t like him, and there are at least a half dozen sites dedicated to his dismissal. as for stone, he might be the best colour guy in the history of baseball. hyperbole? maybe, but he is very good. i might have gotten a bit of a nudge when i first heard he was going to do sox radio, and then tv, it was a couple of dark years without him in a chicago booth.[/quote]

Hawk Harrelson is one of my guilty pleasures. I actually find his enthusiasm and ridiculous mannerisms to be entertaining, and I’m nowhere near being a White Sox fan. I’m spoiled with Dave Niehaus on a daily basis, though.

Steve Stone is still my favorite color commentator for baseball. Before the Mariners had a good TV contract, when I was a wee young lad, I would watch Cub games all the time. Stone’s insight into the game is very easily related to his viewers/listeners.

[quote comment=”393351″]I really don’t see what the big deal is on the Bengals helmet. What exactly is so radical about it? It’s no different to me than Vikings & Rams horns…[/quote]

Oh really? Do the Rams and Vikings have a design that covers the entire helmet? Yes, they try to go with a “literal” design, but at the end of the day the Vikes and Rams have matching decals on each side of the helmet, same as everyone else. The Bengals’ design uses the entire shell of the helmet as a canvas. Nothing else like it. Personally, I’ve never cared for it, but I appreciate its uniqueness.

marc|
June 7, 2010 at 1:39 pm |

The \”behind-the-scenes\” shot of the Lifelike Scoreboard is amazing! As much as wanting to see video of it in action, I\’d like to know how it worked. Just hit a button and lights animate or was it more manual than that? It must have gotten confusing to the operators to have to do it all in reverse. Ya think folks just dropped by the theater and sat there for 3 hours \”watching\” a ball game or maybe they just held onto their ticket stubs and stopped in every 20 minutes or so?

marc|
June 7, 2010 at 1:43 pm |

[quote comment=”393353″][quote comment=”393351″]The Bengals’ design uses the entire shell of the helmet as a canvas.[/quote]

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)

Much as this Brazilophile hates to admit it, Argentina has some nice unis. Can’t decide if theirs or Uruguay’s are better. Neither one is my favorite from this article, though. That honor goes to France’s away kit.

being totally \”homer\” like that is a Chicago tradition, and it doesn\’t just apply to the Sox. It seems to apply to all teams/sports in Chicago.[/quote]

No one in Chicago has a problem with it? I almost literally can\’t listen to it.
Is it like that anywhere else?

Lee[/quote]

I grew up listening to Hawk. Hawk is fun when you’re a stupid teenager & you really don’t know better. Then as I got into my 20s, he really got on my nerves and I just flat-out hate him, but when Wimpy left the booth, the broadcasts got a lot worse. He is a corporate tool, a living cartoon ass-clown, horribly biased, unprofessional, tells the same damn stories over and over, part of The Old Boys Club (and a relentless Bert Blyleven HOF supporter), has no shame, has outbursts & tantrums that sound childish, and he’s an embarrassment to fans. Forget that his stint as GM probably sent the club back 5 to 10 years and his stupid “blueprint for success” gimmick. He’s just trying to make money so he doesn’t starve to death. Steve Stone on the other hand is about as professional & informative as can be. You don’t learn a damn thing from Hawk, other than broken English and rhetoric.

Ron|
June 7, 2010 at 1:51 pm |

[quote comment=”393355″][quote comment=”393353″][quote comment=”393351″]The Bengals’ design uses the entire shell of the helmet as a canvas.[/quote]

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)[/quote]

The Ravens also have different logos on each side of the helmet. Most people miss that one. The Bengals however are by far the most unique.

concealed78|
June 7, 2010 at 1:55 pm |

Hmmm… some kind of weird quoting going on in post #91.

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 1:57 pm |

[quote comment=”393354″]The \”behind-the-scenes\” shot of the Lifelike Scoreboard is amazing! As much as wanting to see video of it in action, I\’d like to know how it worked. Just hit a button and lights animate or was it more manual than that? It must have gotten confusing to the operators to have to do it all in reverse. Ya think folks just dropped by the theater and sat there for 3 hours \”watching\” a ball game or maybe they just held onto their ticket stubs and stopped in every 20 minutes or so?[/quote]

From your comment, I looked at that image a little closer. If you wipe your memories of watching baseball clear for a moment, it almost makes more visual sense (as Americans) for players to go from home plate to to what we now consider third base. Like reading a book left to right, its easy on the eye to watch them travel across that screen. I know … gotta get to first before you can make it to second … I don’t know … maybe I’m crazy.

Much as this Brazilophile hates to admit it, Argentina has some nice unis. Can’t decide if theirs or Uruguay’s are better. Neither one is my favorite from this article, though. That honor goes to France’s away kit.[/quote]
El Tri would have the best but for the stupid armpit accents. Have to go with Argentina over Uruguay’s great sublimation.

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)[/quote]

The Ravens also have different logos on each side of the helmet. Most people miss that one. The Bengals however are by far the most unique.[/quote]

What is considered “different” on each side? The Ram horns mirror each other (not identical), and the Bears wishbone C is identical on both sides.

Andy|
June 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm |

Well, technically, the Bengals’ helmet is the same decal (or paint stencil) on both sides just like those others. They just go higher up on the helmet and connect at the crown, much like the seahawks logo stretches farther back than the others and connects at the rear (or more specifically, ends where the raised stripe on the old helmets was).

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)[/quote]

The Ravens also have different logos on each side of the helmet. Most people miss that one. The Bengals however are by far the most unique.[/quote]

What is considered “different” on each side? The Ram horns mirror each other (not identical), and the Bears wishbone C is identical on both sides.[/quote][/quote]

It’s a bit of a stretch, but I see where he’s going with it. Because of the B on the bird’s head, the logos aren’t true mirrors image on either side of the helmet.

union jack|
June 7, 2010 at 2:12 pm |

“Hey, speaking of Bryce Harper (well, a few thousand words ago), anyone know what he writes on his underbrim? ”

[quote comment=”393363″]Well, technically, the Bengals’ helmet is the same decal (or paint stencil) on both sides just like those others. They just go higher up on the helmet and connect at the crown, much like the seahawks logo stretches farther back than the others and connects at the rear (or more specifically, ends where the raised stripe on the old helmets was).[/quote]

[quote comment=”393366″][quote comment=”393353″]The Bengals’ design uses the entire shell of the helmet as a canvas. Nothing else like it. Personally, I’ve never cared for it, but I appreciate its uniqueness.[/quote]

Much as this Brazilophile hates to admit it, Argentina has some nice unis. Can’t decide if theirs or Uruguay’s are better. Neither one is my favorite from this article, though. That honor goes to France’s away kit.[/quote]
El Tri would have the best but for the stupid armpit accents. Have to go with Argentina over Uruguay’s great sublimation.[/quote]

i’d have to say my favs are Uruguay’s home, and both of South Africa’s (and hey look, UW colors!)

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)[/quote]

The Ravens also have different logos on each side of the helmet. Most people miss that one. The Bengals however are by far the most unique.[/quote]

What is considered “different” on each side? The Ram horns mirror each other (not identical), and the Bears wishbone C is identical on both sides.[/quote][/quote]

It’s a bit of a stretch, but I see where he’s going with it. Because of the B on the bird’s head, the logos aren’t true mirrors image on either side of the helmet.[/quote]

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)[/quote]

The Ravens also have different logos on each side of the helmet. Most people miss that one. The Bengals however are by far the most unique.[/quote]

What is considered “different” on each side? The Ram horns mirror each other (not identical), and the Bears wishbone C is identical on both sides.[/quote][/quote]

It’s a bit of a stretch, but I see where he’s going with it. Because of the B on the bird’s head, the logos aren’t true mirrors image on either side of the helmet.[/quote]

The Chiefs logo presents the same problem.[/quote]

Niners too. Not really a problem, but more of a not a true mirror image kinda thing.

I can’t believe that never occurred to me. You could maybe make the same argument for the Browns’ helmet, but it ain’t the same. Every other team has a design for only half the helmet (except of course this one… it’s two halves)[/quote]

The Ravens also have different logos on each side of the helmet. Most people miss that one. The Bengals however are by far the most unique.[/quote]

What is considered “different” on each side? The Ram horns mirror each other (not identical), and the Bears wishbone C is identical on both sides.[/quote][/quote]

It’s a bit of a stretch, but I see where he’s going with it. Because of the B on the bird’s head, the logos aren’t true mirrors image on either side of the helmet.[/quote]

The Chiefs logo presents the same problem.[/quote]

Niners too. Not really a problem, but more of a not a true mirror image kinda thing.[/quote]

Packers
Jets
Giants Raiders
Does Pittsburgh count?

concealed78|
June 7, 2010 at 2:35 pm |

[quote comment=”393353″][quote comment=”393351″]I really don’t see what the big deal is on the Bengals helmet. What exactly is so radical about it? It’s no different to me than Vikings & Rams horns…[/quote]

Oh really? Do the Rams and Vikings have a design that covers the entire helmet? Yes, they try to go with a “literal” design, but at the end of the day the Vikes and Rams have matching decals on each side of the helmet, same as everyone else. The Bengals’ design uses the entire shell of the helmet as a canvas. Nothing else like it. Personally, I’ve never cared for it, but I appreciate its uniqueness.[/quote]

Well I guess since I grew up in the 1980s & 90s, so it’s the only Bengals helmet I knew, and I saw college & high school teams put stickers on their helmet like it’s a canvas.

JTH|
June 7, 2010 at 2:36 pm |

[quote comment=”393375″]
Niners too. Not really a problem, but more of a not a true mirror image kinda thing.[/quote]

Packers
Jets
Giants Raiders
Does Pittsburgh count?[/quote]
What exactly are we talking about here?

The Niners, Packers, Jets, Giants and Raiders all have the same exact logo on either side of the helmet (throw the Bears, Cowboys and Colts into this group as well) and not mirror images and certainly not two distinctly different logos.

JTH|
June 7, 2010 at 2:39 pm |

Damn. Bad quote tags there. Fixed?
[quote comment=”393375″][quote comment=”393374″]
Niners too. Not really a problem, but more of a not a true mirror image kinda thing.[/quote]

Packers
Jets
Giants Raiders
Does Pittsburgh count?[/quote]
What exactly are we talking about here?

The Niners, Packers, Jets, Giants and Raiders all have the same exact logo on either side of the helmet (throw the Bears, Cowboys and Colts into this group as well) and not mirror images and certainly not two distinctly different logos.

Packers
Jets
Giants Raiders
Does Pittsburgh count?[/quote]
What exactly are we talking about here?

The Niners, Packers, Jets, Giants and Raiders all have the same exact logo on either side of the helmet (throw the Bears, Cowboys and Colts into this group as well) and not mirror images and certainly not two distinctly different logos.[/quote]
Boise State is a good example of distinctly different decals for either side of the helmet.

Packers
Jets
Giants Raiders
Does Pittsburgh count?[/quote]
What exactly are we talking about here?

The Richard A Asel
all have the same exact logo on either side of the helmet (throw the Bears, Cowboys and Colts into this group as well) and not mirror images and certainly not two distinctly different logos.[/quote]

I guess I was just making life easier for everyone that was going to come up with that list. So we have three … make that four catagories on NFL helmets:

I like to think nobody is more anti-Redskins or anti-Wahoo than I, but I don’t get what is “blatantly offensive” about using feathered headdress iconography on a helmet or a ballcap. How is that any different from the Vikings’ horns? I guess I always thought it would be ideal if the Redskins were to drop the name, switch to Warriors or whatever, drop the decapitated Indian head from their logo, and go wild with the feathers on the helmet. Either a style like what you link to, or a return to the 1958-64 feather-up-the-middle design.

And for Cleveland, my dream has always been to take Chief Wahoo’s feather and stick it on the old “C” logo, like this:

[quote comment=”393370″][quote comment=”393363″]Well, technically, the Bengals’ helmet is the same decal (or paint stencil) on both sides just like those others. They just go higher up on the helmet and connect at the crown, much like the seahawks logo stretches farther back than the others and connects at the rear (or more specifically, ends where the raised stripe on the old helmets was).[/quote]

so… in other words: “covers the entire helmet”[/quote]

Yes, but still, in my mind, not really any more innovative than say an Eagles or Rams design, which covers a similar (if not greater) amount of real estate on the helmet. The only difference, to me, is that the design doesn’t technically cross the crown of the helmet, which has less to do with the idea of ‘covering the entire helmet’ than it does with simply placing a particularly large decoration on the actual crown of the helmet.

I fully consider the Rams’ design as one that ‘covers the entire helmet,’ even though it does not technically cross the crown. The Bengals’ helmet has the same design on each side, just like the Vikings, Rams, Eagles or Seahawks. The design itself is simply placed so that it connects over the center stripe, instead of, say, stretching from forehead to behind the ear, then curling around the jaw and terminating at the ear like the ram horns do.

Andy|
June 7, 2010 at 3:00 pm |

[quote comment=”393383″][quote comment=”393370″][quote comment=”393363″]Well, technically, the Bengals’ helmet is the same decal (or paint stencil) on both sides just like those others. They just go higher up on the helmet and connect at the crown, much like the seahawks logo stretches farther back than the others and connects at the rear (or more specifically, ends where the raised stripe on the old helmets was).[/quote]

so… in other words: “covers the entire helmet”[/quote]

Yes, but still, in my mind, not really any more innovative than say an Eagles or Rams design, which covers a similar (if not greater) amount of real estate on the helmet. The only difference, to me, is that the design doesn’t technically cross the crown of the helmet, which has less to do with the idea of ‘covering the entire helmet’ than it does with simply placing a particularly large decoration on the actual crown of the helmet.

I fully consider the Rams’ design as one that ‘covers the entire helmet,’ even though it does not technically cross the crown. The Bengals’ helmet has the same design on each side, just like the Vikings, Rams, Eagles or Seahawks. The design itself is simply placed so that it connects over the center stripe, instead of, say, stretching from forehead to behind the ear, then curling around the jaw and terminating at the ear like the ram horns do.[/quote]

This connection at the top of the crown, in turn, is also a function of the design of a tiger’s markings. A viking’s horns do not connect, nor do a ram’s. An eagle has two separate wings, and I’ve yet to see a two-headed seahawk. I wouldn’t doubt the existence of a few, but certainly it would be rare.

[quote comment=”393384″][quote comment=”393383″][quote comment=”393370″][quote comment=”393363″]Well, technically, the Bengals’ helmet is the same decal (or paint stencil) on both sides just like those others. They just go higher up on the helmet and connect at the crown, much like the seahawks logo stretches farther back than the others and connects at the rear (or more specifically, ends where the raised stripe on the old helmets was).[/quote]

so… in other words: “covers the entire helmet”[/quote]

Yes, but still, in my mind, not really any more innovative than say an Eagles or Rams design, which covers a similar (if not greater) amount of real estate on the helmet. The only difference, to me, is that the design doesn’t technically cross the crown of the helmet, which has less to do with the idea of ‘covering the entire helmet’ than it does with simply placing a particularly large decoration on the actual crown of the helmet.

I fully consider the Rams’ design as one that ‘covers the entire helmet,’ even though it does not technically cross the crown. The Bengals’ helmet has the same design on each side, just like the Vikings, Rams, Eagles or Seahawks. The design itself is simply placed so that it connects over the center stripe, instead of, say, stretching from forehead to behind the ear, then curling around the jaw and terminating at the ear like the ram horns do.[/quote]

This connection at the top of the crown, in turn, is also a function of the design of a tiger’s markings. A viking’s horns do not connect, nor do a ram’s. An eagle has two separate wings, and I’ve yet to see a two-headed seahawk. I wouldn’t doubt the existence of a few, but certainly it would be rare.[/quote]

so… in other words: “covers the entire helmet”

(by any chance, ever notice the back of the bengals helmet?)

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 3:07 pm |

As for the Redskins helmet concept …

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.

yeek|
June 7, 2010 at 3:08 pm |

Virginia Tech’s baseball season ended yesterday with the team wearing their Rainbow Guts.

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.

Also, Ricko makes a cameo at the 3:20 mark, although you may need a keen eye to spot him.[/quote]

1)how perfect is it that ricko was lurking behind the blue jay dinger. hysterical.

2)today’s post was exceptional

3)dag~gum~it, the hawk is the hawk. sure, if you are not a sox fan(i am), he can be a bit much, but i like the guy mostly. i can’t argue, he is for sure a homer, but he isn’t afraid to crit the team either. that being said there are tons of sox fans who don’t like him, and there are at least a half dozen sites dedicated to his dismissal. as for stone, he might be the best colour guy in the history of baseball. hyperbole? maybe, but he is very good. i might have gotten a bit of a nudge when i first heard he was going to do sox radio, and then tv, it was a couple of dark years without him in a chicago booth.[/quote]

I was policing up some of the fouled-back balls.
And, yes, I wore my gray Blue Jays hat, as I said I would.
Suggested to Natron, “If anyone asks who the old guy was, tell ’em I’m the Owner.”

Hitting that thing is a seriously difficult task. For one thing, the “mound” is right on top of the hitter. They had a radar gun there, too, because there’s a speed limit.

The Blue Jays were facing a bit of a wind blowing in from left. Despite that, one of their guys (Brad?) came about four inches from hitting a walkoff home run the first game of their double header.

Oh, for those curious about it, there’s a story behind the shamrock on the jersey logos. Natron said the “Canadian thing wasn’t really gonna fly,” and that everyone on the team at the time had a bit of Irish in his ethnic background so they went with a shamrock.

And, no, Natron wasn’t at the UW Deep Freeze. He was up in Hermantown for Hockey Day in Minnesota.

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.[/quote]

Of course, no offense Jim. I had no intention in slamming your opinion.

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.[/quote]

“bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys”

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.[/quote]

Of course, no offense Jim. I had no intention in slamming your opinion.[/quote]

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I’m a Cub fan. It takes a lot to offend me. ;)

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.[/quote]

I’m not sure football helmets should make someone think, “Cool, like the gas tank on a really tricked out Kawasaki.”

—Ricko

LI Phil|
June 7, 2010 at 3:47 pm |

[quote comment=”393393″]
“bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys”

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?[/quote]

Packers
Jets
Giants Raiders
Does Pittsburgh count?[/quote]
What exactly are we talking about here?

The Niners, Packers, Jets, Giants and Raiders all have the same exact logo on either side of the helmet (throw the Bears, Cowboys and Colts into this group as well) and not mirror images and certainly not two distinctly different logos.[/quote]
Boise State is a good example of distinctly different decals for either side of the helmet.

Donegal High School in Mount Joy, Pennsylvania(alma mater of Bruce Sutter and Reds rookie Chris Heisey) have a Florida St. spear on one side of their helmet and script Indians on the other. This link shows the one design as a throwback but they actually wear the two different designs on either side http://www.pahelmetproject.com/team.php?id=150

JimWa|
June 7, 2010 at 3:48 pm |

“bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys”

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?

I’m not so sure about that. From my sheltered experience, I would think “Redskin” is as offensive to Native Americans as the N word is to African Americans – especially when used by us white folks. As long as you’re willing to offend with the name, how much higher on the ladder can you possibly climb?

Ricko|
June 7, 2010 at 3:51 pm |

I never minded “homers” on local broadcasts or telecasts.

What the heck, the vast majority of the audience is “root, root, rooting for the home team,” anyway. It’s part of the fun of listening or watching when you travel around the country…or listening to them late at night on the radio from faraway places, the way some of us did in our childhood.

Look at it this way, if listeners care enough to tune in, potentially, 162 times a year, they want (and kinda deserve) to hear someone who cares, too.

Russ Hodges’ call of “The Giants win the pennant!!!” would be pretty dull if he were dispassionately objective.

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.[/quote]

I’m not sure football helmets should make someone think, “Cool, like the gas tank on a really tricked out Kawasaki.”

—Ricko[/quote]

Whaaa??? This sort of speak sounds foreign to me. ;o)

marc|
June 7, 2010 at 3:54 pm |

[quote comment=”393398″] “bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys”

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?

I’m not so sure about that. From my sheltered experience, I would think “Redskin” is as offensive to Native Americans as the N word is to African Americans – especially when used by us white folks. As long as you’re willing to offend with the name, how much higher on the ladder can you possibly climb?[/quote]

see Phil’s last comment.

Ricko|
June 7, 2010 at 3:57 pm |

[quote comment=”393398″] “bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys”

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?

I’m not so sure about that. From my sheltered experience, I would think “Redskin” is as offensive to Native Americans as the N word is to African Americans – especially when used by us white folks. As long as you’re willing to offend with the name, how much higher on the ladder can you possibly climb?[/quote]

Actually, there’s a word that many Native American men find even more offensive, but I’m not gonna get into it here. Largely because it’s a relatively common word, but when applied to them, it REALLY makes them cringe. I spent a dozen years doing advertising for Native American casinos from Michigan to California, from Minnesota to Oregon to Arizona…and I’m not about to mention it, just out of respect for some people I really enjoyed working with.

BTW, fantastic early Vikings pic Ricko. Although, I was really hoping it was a nice color shot of those shiny satin purple pants. I hate the shiny pants of today, yet, those vintage satin pants were very unique.

Ricko|
June 7, 2010 at 4:04 pm |

[quote comment=”393404″]BTW, fantastic early Vikings pic Ricko. Although, I was really hoping it was a nice color shot of those shiny satin purple pants. I hate the shiny pants of today, yet, those vintage satin pants were very unique.[/quote]

No purple pants until second season (’62).
Year One was white-over-white on the road.
And, please, don’t someone ask if I’m “sure about that”. ;)

—Ricko

—Ricko

Rick|
June 7, 2010 at 4:29 pm |

[quote comment=”393321″][quote comment=”393318″]Paul, were you in Chicago this past weekend?

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?

I’m not so sure about that. From my sheltered experience, I would think “Redskin” is as offensive to Native Americans as the N word is to African Americans – especially when used by us white folks. As long as you’re willing to offend with the name, how much higher on the ladder can you possibly climb?[/quote]

visuals of bullet holes maybe? LOL

BurghFan|
June 7, 2010 at 4:55 pm |

I’ve started the Buc Tracker project of listing what colors the Pirates wore from 1977-83. I’ve gotten through the on-line Google archives of the Pittsburgh papers for 1977 and found:

-They did wear the striped whites on the road that year.

-They would wear either cap with the white jerseys, and either color of stirrups with the white pants.

-There was one game where the only photo I saw had Chick Tanner in a gold cap with the gold jersey and pants. (Black stirrups, though.)

If you want to help, or just have questions, you can reach me by putting together BucTracker, gmail, and com appropriately.

for the record, yes, that would be a tad bit more offensive dontcha think?

I’m not so sure about that. From my sheltered experience, I would think “Redskin” is as offensive to Native Americans as the N word is to African Americans – especially when used by us white folks. As long as you’re willing to offend with the name, how much higher on the ladder can you possibly climb?[/quote]

visuals of bullet holes maybe? LOL[/quote]

Now see, if NFL players had just done at least a LITTLE bit to memorialize Sean Taylor, I would have more quickly realized the error of my suggestion. I mean, if we’re going avoid bullet hole graphics for EVERY team with a player that’s had gun-related issues … well, I guess we might as well ban the practice outright.

And there was so much potential. (where’s the sarcasm tag, again???)

LI Phil|
June 7, 2010 at 5:03 pm |

[quote comment=”393409″]I’ve started the Buc Tracker project of listing what colors the Pirates wore from 1977-83. I’ve gotten through the on-line Google archives of the Pittsburgh papers for 1977 and found:

-They did wear the striped whites on the road that year.

-They would wear either cap with the white jerseys, and either color of stirrups with the white pants.

-There was one game where the only photo I saw had Chick Tanner in a gold cap with the gold jersey and pants. (Black stirrups, though.)

If you want to help, or just have questions, you can reach me by putting together BucTracker, gmail, and com appropriately.[/quote]

but how many of them wore eyeblack mustaches?

im interested in your project…gimme a shout — may have some interesting info for you

I think the Bengals helmet would look great with a gold color (like LSU’s helmets) and the stripes.

Jordan Sogn|
June 7, 2010 at 5:10 pm |

A few weeks ago, one of the readers found a pic of TCU’s combat unis in NCAA Football 2011 but was unsure if other combats were in the game. Apparently, all are included & here is a pic of Ohio State’s special uni. You’ve got to admit the detail is rather impressive.

Seriously? They own a team named the REDSKINS, and you think they’re worried that a feathered helmet image is going to offend people? I think they could put bleeding shotgun holes in the jerseys, and you still wouldn’t reach the level of offensiveness as they have by simply keeping the name of the franchise what it is today.

This from a white Polish Lithuanian American with no paricular ax to grind in the argument.[/quote]

That said … if that were ever to become a reality it would – aesthetically speaking – become my #1 favorite helmet in the history of the NFL.[/quote]

Oi! If the Redskins ever donned those feathered headdress helmets, they would look like the biggest fucking idiots ever to wear a football uniform. I’m sure there is a designer that could make the concept work, yet, truly both concept and that particular design are simply bad.[/quote]

I’m not sure football helmets should make someone think, “Cool, like the gas tank on a really tricked out Kawasaki.”

[quote comment=”393323″][quote comment=”393287″]Perhaps lost in all the tributes to the coaching giant that is john Wooden were the great shots of those classic UCLA uniforms and warm-ups from the 60s and 70s. Also, love the STAFF jacket he was known to wear! Could we see some as a remembrance to not only a great coach but one that choose great unis?

And those unis are still great. Repeating myself here, but teams like Alabama and Notre Dame in football, the Yankees in baseball, and UCLA in basketball stand the test of time with their uniforms.[/quote]

Last night on SNB, the Cardinals looked outstanding in their traditional home whites.

Anyway, the main logo isn’t horrible, but do they really need ANOTHER plane at the front of the helmet?[/quote]

Yes, because more is better.
Everyone knows that.
What are their colors, anyway; Black, gray, another shade of gray and silver?

Guess they wanted to save money by not needing to shoot any colors photos of the team.

Yeah, yeah, I know what a Nighthawk fighter looks like, but we really need to get over this bullshit that the best, most super perfect wonderful team colors are those that are exactly those of the “thing” that’s used for the nickname. Nicknames and uniforms are supposed to inspire the imagaination a little…not just lay there for people to say, “Wow, look how accurate they are…and best of all, they’re BLACK.”

—Ricko

rpm|
June 7, 2010 at 7:22 pm |

before i leave for work, i have yet to mention today…the ronny cedeno eye black moustache is absolutely top notch. the guy is playing in a major league game, but is still willing to have fun for one game to the point of putting lamp black on his upper lip. it was one game, it was team unity, i love it. and i see no irony in thinking bryce harper looks like a tool. if i was the pitcher in his first mlb at bat, and he strutted to the plate looking like that, pitch one would wipe it off.

LI Phil|
June 7, 2010 at 7:26 pm |

[quote comment=”393423″]Last night on SNB, the Cardinals looked outstanding in their traditional home whites.[/quote]

yeah…sucks when they wear the red alt tops

wait…what?

Ken S.|
June 7, 2010 at 9:58 pm |

I’m sorry to weigh in so late in the day, but I agree SO strongly with the commentary regarding Wayne Hagin that I just had to write. I’ve been a Mets fan since 1966 and have never found the radio broadcast to be as painfully unlistenable as it has been since Hagin’s arrival. If I get in the car and Howie’s not up, I change the channel. I’ve never done that before. (However) Hagin MUST go!

traxel|
June 7, 2010 at 10:02 pm |

Jumping in waaaaay late here. As a kid I always thought the Bengals helmets SUCKED. The ones that just said BENGALS. Giants too. I mean can’t you get a little more creative than that? Total lost opportunity. Then I got bushwacked by the stripes. Took me a month of doing nothing but staring into the eyes of that thing. Then I was sold. The entire helmet as a canvus. Why the hell not? I wish Oregon would put their big O on the top like the old Angels halo. A duck nest of sorts.

traxel|
June 7, 2010 at 10:09 pm |

On that Wayne Hagin thing, from what I remember here in Missouri, he got run out of town. I heard Mike Shannon wouldn’t even speak to him off the air by the end of the one season he was here. I couldn’t stand listening to him either….might have been because we were spoiled by Jack Buck, though he was pretty hard to listen to at the end too. Now we have John Rooney who is polished, but his “it’s a goner!” sounds way too fake. Mike Shannon is awesome though. Denny Mathews in KC is BORING as all get out compared to the Cardinals broadcasts even though he’s been there since the Royals beginnings.

DonD|
June 7, 2010 at 11:19 pm |

That mustache reminded me of the time I was coaching my sons baseball team, one of the kids asked me if he could put on a eye black mustache, I didn’t care and pretty soon I had 1/2 the 9/10 year old team with badass mustaches. I have pictures somewhere I should try to dig up.

Andy|
June 8, 2010 at 12:04 am |

[quote comment=”393385″][quote comment=”393384″][quote comment=”393383″][quote comment=”393370″][quote comment=”393363″]Well, technically, the Bengals’ helmet is the same decal (or paint stencil) on both sides just like those others. They just go higher up on the helmet and connect at the crown, much like the seahawks logo stretches farther back than the others and connects at the rear (or more specifically, ends where the raised stripe on the old helmets was).[/quote]

so… in other words: “covers the entire helmet”[/quote]

Yes, but still, in my mind, not really any more innovative than say an Eagles or Rams design, which covers a similar (if not greater) amount of real estate on the helmet. The only difference, to me, is that the design doesn’t technically cross the crown of the helmet, which has less to do with the idea of ‘covering the entire helmet’ than it does with simply placing a particularly large decoration on the actual crown of the helmet.

I fully consider the Rams’ design as one that ‘covers the entire helmet,’ even though it does not technically cross the crown. The Bengals’ helmet has the same design on each side, just like the Vikings, Rams, Eagles or Seahawks. The design itself is simply placed so that it connects over the center stripe, instead of, say, stretching from forehead to behind the ear, then curling around the jaw and terminating at the ear like the ram horns do.[/quote]

This connection at the top of the crown, in turn, is also a function of the design of a tiger’s markings. A viking’s horns do not connect, nor do a ram’s. An eagle has two separate wings, and I’ve yet to see a two-headed seahawk. I wouldn’t doubt the existence of a few, but certainly it would be rare.[/quote]

so… in other words: “covers the entire helmet”

(by any chance, ever notice the back of the bengals helmet?)[/quote]

Yes. I have, but clearly you have no intention of listening with the intent to see my point of view. You already know that I’m wrong and my argument makes no sense.

Nick|
June 8, 2010 at 12:25 am |

RERUN FROM LATE LAST NIGHT >>>>>

Ricko said:

In early 80’s Vanderbilt also had an Old Gold jersey almost exactly like the one you’re describing. Had a white version, of course, and wore them with black, white or old gold pants.

I was off-line for a while, but thanks for the Vandy & Idaho photos, Ricko. It’s a shame that there are not enough sites to go back and reference these different eras of NCAA unis.

I still thought I’d comment on the Vandy Old Gold jerseys. I loved the 1970s Vandy Dark Old Gold jerseys and the use of it with Black and White, but that era of Vandy’s uni was weird from the get-go, as it was garrishly over-detailed.

The helmet was Black with a White facemask, the Old Gold jersey had White numerals (an oddity for football), and the pants were almost always Black. In total the uni just looked a bit weird and off-kilter, particularly when Vandy the omitted TV numerals and instead used the Star/”V” logo in place of TV numerals, but then kept the five-stripe-on-the-sleeve (1970s Saints/Browns
/Packers) template, along with the fact that the jerseys – despite upper details – were cut very short even for that era’s short mid-drift style, and it all added up to be a bit too different, even for the time.

Nick|
June 8, 2010 at 12:34 am |

Hard to find photos of it, but when Brett Favre was a freshman at Southern Mississippi they were still wearing Dark Old Gold jerseys at home with White pants and Black helmets. It was a pretty good looking uni. They used Old Gold quite a bit in the 1960’s-1970’s, at one time using a White jersey with Old Gold sleeves similar to the original/current NY Jets look. By Favre’s second year they moved toward the current look, and one year that he was there they wore only Black and White – omitting all Gold from the uni for that one year. They currently wear Athletic Gold (Dark Yellow)

Freshman Brett Favre came off the bench in a sluggish, slow game to slaughter Tulane in that first game that he won for USM at their home stadium – and the rest is history ……

Jordan|
June 8, 2010 at 4:12 am |

My roommate doesn’t have a problem with Hawk Harrelson. My roommate also has the mental capacity of a roll of toilet paper. My roommate and Hawk the reasons that I now hate the White Sox. He’s so bad that when my roommate would request to put the sox game on, I would put the TV on mute.

RS Rogers|
June 8, 2010 at 10:22 am |

[quote comment=”393399″]I never minded “homers” on local broadcasts or telecasts.

What the heck, the vast majority of the audience is “root, root, rooting for the home team,” anyway. It’s part of the fun of listening or watching when you travel around the country…or listening to them late at night on the radio from faraway places, the way some of us did in our childhood.

Look at it this way, if listeners care enough to tune in, potentially, 162 times a year, they want (and kinda deserve) to hear someone who cares, too.

Russ Hodges’ call of “The Giants win the pennant!!!” would be pretty dull if he were dispassionately objective.

—Ricko[/quote]

False dichotomy, man. We don’t need to put up with a broadcaster having an on-air orgasm every time a player from his team reaches base in order to get an appropriately emotional call on once-a-decade games like Hodges. It’s precisely because most of the people watching or listening are rooting for the home team that we don’t need the broadcasters to do so all game long. Might as well dispense with the broadcasters entirely in that case and just give us the noise of the crowd. (Which by the way is a better, more eloquent thing for broadcasters to do when their team wins a big game at home than shouting “The Giants win the pennant!”)

The broadcaster’s job is to act as a kind of guide to the game. If my attention drifts, I should be able to tune back into the patter of the broadcasters and know within 30 seconds exactly what’s going on in the game right now. That also means telling me things I don’t already know but that would be useful for me to know to understand the game. “Come on, come on, YES! Great hustle to beat the throw!” adds nothing to my experience watching the game. I’m already thinking “Come on, come on!” when the batter tries to beat the throw. If it’s great hustle, I already know that too. I don’t need broadcasters to be rooting for the home team on every play, because I’m already doing that myself.

The best proof that Ricko is offering a false dichotomy is Hodges himself. Sure, he was happy when his team won, and exuberant when his team won the pennant. That’s a good thing. But during the course of a broadcast, Hodges told it square, like a reporter, not like the drunk guy sitting next to you in the stands. Too many of today’s broadcasters are that drunk guy rooting loudly on ever play.

James Craven|
June 8, 2010 at 9:18 pm |

All Star Game Logo for NBA 2011:

Bites. Blows. Stinks. Sucks. All at the same time.

ryan4fregosi|
June 9, 2010 at 6:14 pm |

Wayne Hagin makes me nostalgic for Steve Zabriskie. Come back Steve! We forgive you for everything, even for “Backman! To Hernandez! The…unbelievable…SEASON…is not OVER!”