Proposed Change: Major reworking of lifespan modeling. Less important: the environment, political corruption, and citizen niceness. More important: citizen health, economic strength, poor incomes, and government spending on health and welfare. Executing the elderly has less effect in nations where citizens rarely reach 65+ anyway. Brand new, ordinary-ish nations have lifespans in the high 60s rather than low 60s.

Last edited by [violet] on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Interesting! There's 8 instances of Mrs throughout the issue base, though one of them is a chicken, so is okay.

Proposed Change: Major reworking of lifespan modeling. Less important: the environment, political corruption, and citizen niceness. More important: citizen health, economic strength, poor incomes, and government spending on health and welfare.

Shouldn't the level of charitable spending be a factor there, as well? I'm not sure how you'd calculate that, though, I admit... Maybe, at least in part, have it (as in various RL cultures) increasing with Religiousness?

Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.

Bears Armed wrote:Shouldn't the level of charitable spending be a factor there, as well? I'm not sure how you'd calculate that, though, I admit... Maybe, at least in part, have it (as in various RL cultures) increasing with Religiousness?

Compassion would be the logical stat for how much your citizens contribute to charity. [violet] said the calculation is already counting Niceness, which is close enough, although it was counted under the "less important" column.

That said, even charity isn't strictly necessary. Commercial healthcare could be fine if your citizens are rich enough to afford it. Which is where the economic strength and poor income factors come in.

Looks good to me. From the nations I've tried out there are going to be some major changes to the census rankings for lifespan and development. Most of my nations exhibit fairly small changes of just a few years, except this one which rises from 24 up to 90, surely one of the biggest changes of any nation?

Although I don't think we should lower the impact the environment has on citizen health. The importance of a good environment to a healthier populace is especially true in the real world, and ought to be on NS.

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Vovodoco wrote:... Although I don't think we should lower the impact the environment has on citizen health. The importance of a good environment to a healthier populace is especially true in the real world, and ought to be on NS.

In the real world we don't sleep in latrines either. NS treats it as if we'll all chock to death if a city park gets bulldozed over, too unrealistic.

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Vovodoco wrote:... Although I don't think we should lower the impact the environment has on citizen health. The importance of a good environment to a healthier populace is especially true in the real world, and ought to be on NS.

In the real world we don't sleep in latrines either. NS treats it as if we'll all chock to death if a city park gets bulldozed over, too unrealistic.

Fair enough lol. I'm looking for a compromise though. Welfare, healthcare, economic strength, income, and environment having a huge impact on the health of a nation's citizens is a pretty fair beta.

Not to mention I'm okay with turning my country into a Green Libertarian one, which should soften the blow from the ridiculous lifespan shortage this beta would cost me.

Last edited by Vovodoco on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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It's the rescaling. Currently Pinkiopia is ranked low in the world on both Lifespan and Death Rate! Under the beta, Pinkiopia's average lifespan will increase a little but still be less than average, while its Death Rate will increase a lot and be higher than average.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Interesting! There's 8 instances of Mrs throughout the issue base, though one of them is a chicken, so is okay.

If I may, what's the reasoning behind lowering the impact the environment has on lifespan? Are there some nations with an unrealistically high lifespan due their environment when, all things considered, they live in a dangerous undeveloped hell hole?

Last edited by Vovodoco on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CALLMEVOVO. I'm a proud member of the LMTU and the Reichsburg Free Trade Agreement. Are you?Enlist in the house of Liberties and fight the good fight in the Worldly Debate Region! Explore our open embassy/trade policy for those who'd like to debate/discuss with us!

[violet] wrote:Yes, the general feeling is that the effect of the environment is overstated in a couple places, including Lifespan. It should be a factor but not an overwhelming one.

Fair enough.*sigh*

I guess I'll just have to live the next 9 years of my life to the fullest lol

thx

CALLMEVOVO. I'm a proud member of the LMTU and the Reichsburg Free Trade Agreement. Are you?Enlist in the house of Liberties and fight the good fight in the Worldly Debate Region! Explore our open embassy/trade policy for those who'd like to debate/discuss with us!

Bears Armed wrote:Shouldn't the level of charitable spending be a factor there, as well? I'm not sure how you'd calculate that, though, I admit... Maybe, at least in part, have it (as in various RL cultures) increasing with Religiousness?

Compassion would be the logical stat for how much your citizens contribute to charity. [violet] said the calculation is already counting Niceness, which is close enough, although it was counted under the "less important" column.

I thought that 'Compassion' was based largely on your nation's willingness to support state funding of such matters (& welfare), meaning that it would already be factored-in and that nations whose people prefer charities instead would probably have relatively low values for this trait...

Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.

Trotterdam wrote:Compassion would be the logical stat for how much your citizens contribute to charity. [violet] said the calculation is already counting Niceness, which is close enough, although it was counted under the "less important" column.

I thought that 'Compassion' was based largely on your nation's willingness to support state funding of such matters (& welfare), meaning that it would already be factored-in and that nations whose people prefer charities instead would probably have relatively low values for this trait...

Bears Armed wrote:I thought that 'Compassion' was based largely on your nation's willingness to support state funding of such matters (& welfare), meaning that it would already be factored-in and that nations whose people prefer charities instead would probably have relatively low values for this trait...

Purely my speculation: "compassion" as it is right now has no practical effect on anything but merely a score tied to a medal (world ranking icon). No 'charity' component in existence either, "welfare" spending is totally controlled by issue answers. Would be great if mod can confirm this.

[violet] wrote: ... Less important: the environment, political corruption, and citizen niceness. More important: citizen health, economic strength, poor incomes, and government spending on health and welfare. ...

Also, I think "cheerfulness" (optimism) is more apt than "niceness" (friendly, hospitable).

Very interesting. I’ve always been a bit surprised that my personal nation had such a low lifespan, given its high technological advancement, massive personal incomes, relative wealth equality, and so on. It was all that damn polluted environment’s fault.

*fist shake*

Looking forward to the average Landser living a bonus fifty years.

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The beta description is a little misleading: this beta actually removes Niceness altogether from the algorithm. So there is no longer any impact on Lifespan from Niceness (nor its close relative, Compassion).

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Interesting! There's 8 instances of Mrs throughout the issue base, though one of them is a chicken, so is okay.

Fantastic! My life expectancy is at 27.97 years for some bizarre reason, and has been for a while despite major investment in universal healthcare. The beta raises it to 90.28 years, so a massive difference!

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas. Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.).