First, let’s stipulate that it’s OK if you hate this book — or any other — but it helps if you have thought-out reasons why.

Also, it is by no means required that you stay on topic. Remember in The Catcher in the Rye when everybody yelled “Digression!” at Holden Caulfield? That won’t happen here.

All right, here goes.

Then We Came to the End is a pretty detailed description of office life, though funnier and more outlandish than most of our office lives, I’m guessing — but not by much. Not altogether different from the TV Show The Office, but more serious and poignant.

– Did the depiction of office life ring true to you?

– How about layoffs (or “walking Spanish”, as they call it in the book)?

– How much is your office your little fishbowl?

– Which character was most like somebody you work with — or most like you?

Tomorrow, I’d like to talk about the way the book was written — the narration, the Lynn Mason section, the Tom Mota incident.

15 Responses

The descriptions in the book reminded me a lot of the time I worked for a big company — including the state of mind induced by layoffs.

I hate to admit I have been the Benny of my office more than once. I don’t consciously try to know all the office gossip, but I am usually one of the first to hear whatever is going on. That results in coworkers coming to me to get the scoop.

I finished the book over a week ago, but I still don’t have a firm opinion on how much I liked it. The “we” narrator got on my nerves at times, and closing paragraph kind of fell flat. As long as the “we” was undefined, I felt like I could identify with it as being part of everyone. I lost that connection when “we” was termed as unnamed people. What is their story? (sorry I jumped ahead to tomorrow, but I couldn’t help it)

I admit to identifying a little with the Lynn Mason character. My shoes aren’t nearly in the same league as her shoes. But I’ve been in the awful position of having to lay off or fire people, and when she said to herself “don’t you know how hard this is on me?” — well, I’d dismiss that thought immediately, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have it for an unworthy second. ANd I know what it’s like to have people speculate about the boss’s personal life even if, really they could just come in and ask.

I’d love to be Joe. I’d have to be reincarnated a couple more times before I could achieve Joe-ness.

donbon, I LOVED Benny. Don’t be the least bit ashamed to be sort of like him!

If I’m like anyone, I guess it would be Hank Neary. Not so much with all the quotations, but at least (secretly) wanting to be always novel and thought-provoking. And also, kind of a marginal character, sigh.

The office in the book is a particular type of office – one where creativity is a huge part of the job. In the places I’ve worked, creativity is valued, but getting the dull stuff done (currently I’m in accounting) is the main goal. In the novel (p 109), Karen Woo comes to the double meeting with a complete ad campaign, and everyone resents her for it. Here was this morsel of business, a chance for everyone to exercise their creative talent, and she just gobbled it up. I kind of admired her for it, but I don’t think I’d enjoy working with someone who is so competetive.

Sorry Kyrie, I’m kinda the Joe character here. And not because I let a kid get beat up. I have made it a point to separate myself from the usual office goings on and keep my eye on what I’m doing. But then again, my work environment is different than is this setting. Still, I’m a Joe.

You may be a Lynn Mason w/ one substantial difference. You took control and faced it. I think that speaks volumes both for you and your character.

Oh, I had the walking Spanish ordeal in the 80′s. Guard was there watching the whole time. Funny thing was my boss also got the walking Spanish call and didn’t show up for work. Didn’t answer his phone and didn’t respond to a certified letter. Kept his job and salary for another 4 days.

Until my current job, I’ve always worked in chemical plants and oil refineries, and there is quite a bit more looking out for one another in those situations than in an ad agency due to the inherent danger. That being said, I certainly could identify with the collective we in the narration.

I have never been in a job where layoffs were prevalent. Just lucky, I guess.

I don’t really pay that close attention to the people in my office and their doings, especially not now. I’m rarely there because I travel so much. In past jobs, I have more or less kept to myself and sat in my office/cubicle trying get work done or waste time (as the case might be) on my own. I loved the part about meetings, and how great they can be at helping you get through the day, even if they are useless.

I’m doing this from memory because I only listened to the audio book, but I would say that I am the guy who always is the last one to know anything (sorry – can’t recall his name). I’ve known plenty of Bennies and Karen Woos. One of the Karens introduced me to my wife, so they’re not all bad.

I work in research at a school within The University here in the town/state, and I found it oddly disturbing to read the parallels of corporate office life with academic office life. I’m not sure why I expected more of a difference between the two, but as funny as I found sections of the book, I had to keep putting the book down because I kept “finding” people from the past in it – and that seemed to bother me. Interesting.

I think the depiction of office life was a bit surreal and overdone, however that may be due to the business I am in. However, in the 29 years I have been at my current employer, I have certainly seen some characters who could compete with the ones in this book. Just not all at the same time.

The layoffs reminded me of how it was done in the 80s and early 90s (though where I worked we didn’t have Security standing with the person – in one case, when someone got ‘the tap’, the supervisor then stood back and let this guy have unfettered access to a mainframe computer’s master console. Fortunately, he did *not* type in the self-destruct command.) Now, it seems a whole lot different (at least in IT, where I work.) In fact, I don’t think we have had a layoff since around ’03 or so.

I did like the Chris Yop character. He not only reminded me of someone I worked with (who came in the office for about a month or so after being laid off, they just gave her access to a computer with nothing on it and let her do whatever it was she was doing – her therapist and the Company doctor said it was for the best. She finally left.), but sometimes he reminded me of me – during the times he was telling some of his stories, as well as the whole ‘dismantle the chair and throw it in the lake’ thing. I have so been tempted to do something like that (but not with a chair.)

One of the things that surprised me was how hands-off HR and Security were. Everywhere I’ve worked HR would have frog-marched Chris Yop and Tom Mota out within seconds, or tried to. And HR would have had the writing of “FAG” on the wall investigated within an inch of everybody’s life. Office theft? I’ve never known Security to solve that, however.

I was a little surprised that HR / security / IT seemed non-existent too. Back in 03/04 my office had layoffs every few months. Usually one of the deparment heads or a vp would walk around the office 15 minutes or so ahead of time and warn everyone that we would be having “network trouble”. Whenever HR started handing out severance packages, IT would disconnect the server and/or block those walking spanish. I believe they had a choice — have security watch them pack, or leave immediatly and come back on Saturday to pack.

I know increased security would have completly invalidated the Tom Mota arc, but what large metropolitan building didn’t have id swipe cards in 2002?

I work at a large firm where layoffs happen on an ongoing basis. Every few months you hear about another few people who have “walked Spanish.”

I worked at my job for about 3 months before I ever saw people getting laid off. The guy that got hired the same day as me got the boot. I got to stay. Never have figured out quite why.

The really old-timers in our office tell the story about how they used to do layoffs. Everyone knew it was going to happen on a particular day. Everyone was told to go to their office (no cubes at that point) and shut the door and don’t come out. Then the managers went down the hall and, one at a time, knocked on the doors of those being laid off. You just didn’t want to hear that knock.

“One of the things that surprised me was how hands-off HR and Security were.”

I gathered that this was a rather smallish agency, therefore they didn’t have dedicated security staff (they used the building’s), and that their HR staff deferred to the partners (where I work, HR and Legal have to approve such investigations – but line management is responsible for conducting them.) Unfortunately, I haven’t worked for a small outfit, so I don’t know how their processes work differently from those of a “Fortune 500″ (or even if they do.)

I suspect some of the things noted in the comments were examples of literary license (or “reality makes for a much more boring story”.)

Although I’m loving the book (got a late start), I can sympathize with Bridge Out Ahead.

When I worked for a large, teetering retail chain where I was very frustrated in my job and just hated the moment in the morning where I had to open that building door, I could NOT watch The Office (the British version was the only version at the time) because it was like having to endure the most awful parts of work all over again. I had something like 11 bosses and they were all a little like the Ricky Gervais character.