Posted
by
kdawson
on Friday April 30, 2010 @11:27AM
from the poke-salad-annie dept.

separsons writes "Researchers at Wake Forest's Center for Nanotechnology and Molecular Materials created a low-cost solar power system geared towards developing nations. By coating fiber-based solar cells with dye from purple pokeberries, a common weed, scientists created a cheap yet highly efficient solar system. Wake Forest researchers and their accompanying company, FiberCell Inc., have filed for a patent for fiber-based solar. Plastic sheets are stamped with plastic fibers, creating millions of tiny 'cans' that trap light until it is absorbed. The fibers create a huge surface area, meaning sunlight can be collected at any angle from the time the sun rises until it sets. Coating the system with pokeberry dye creates even greater absorption: researchers say the system can produce twice as much power as traditional flat-cell technology."

This is one reason (of many) why it's unwise to date single mothers...

Right. Romance is dead... it was bought out by an aggressive takeover by hallmark and then sold off piece by piece. In other news, you're a jaded asshat who's trying to reduce the enormous complexity and diversity of human relationships into some neat little rule of "all single mothers are SATAN." Baka...

I don't think you realize or appreciate how many men are in that guy's position. Note I told him he was not a victim. If he was a victim, that would have been her fault, as in something she did to him. It really wasn't. He made a decision without understanding what he was signing up for and he got screwed. That's his fault.

I made no claims to have summed up all of human relationships, and that's for a reason, so please put aside your emotional visceral hyperbole. I didn't say single mothers were "satan" or anything of the sort. I said that they are generally not the best match for a single man to have either casual sex or a serious relationship with and proceeded to give reasons for that. I never said they should be treated as second-class citizens, I never said it's wrong to care a great deal about them, to be friends with them, etc. Only that having a sexual relationship with them is a lot more complexity and comes with more risk than most men are bargaining for, and that men need to seriously consider this instead of being so thoughtless or trying to play the victim.

I'm saying men need to do a better job of taking responsibility for their decisions, such as whom they choose to be with. If you are a woman who disagrees with that, I'd wager you are in a tiny minority.

Romance is far from dead, though as a man I can tell you that the number of women who appreciate it is lower than one would think, for the simple reason that "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" is (falsely) viewed by many of them as more manly. That's beside the point, however. It's pretty obvious to me that the original poster was thinking with his penis and it got him into trouble. I don't find anything particularly romantic about that, so no, romance was not what I wrote about. I think you're capable of realizing that on your own but your irritated emotional reaction required you to find some fault with me and created the need for me to point this out.

If you'd like to stop calling me names and falsely characterizing both me and what I wrote, I'd be willing to have a rational discussion about this with you, but you need to know that those techniques are useless on me and anyone else who isn't in the business of winning your approval. I've had discussions with you before and from those I know that you normally adhere to a higher standard than this. That usually makes it a pleasure to hear what you have to say. If you still need to demonize me because I said something you dislike then unfortunately a rational discussion is going to be rather difficult. But, my offer stands and that choice is yours.

If you think you where being rational, go back and look at the reasons you gave for a woman to be a single mother.

Go on. Ill wait. Seriously it's relevant.

All of them point to a problem with the woman.

how about:
1) Rape,
2) Father left
3) father died
4) failed birth control

I mean, really.

"Rational" would be the realization that I did not say "this list is exhaustive and without exceptions" and along with it, the appreciation that I chose not to say that; it was not a coincidence or product of chance that no such claim appears in my post. Generally, the Slashdot crowd is really great at noticing the fine details of everything you say and terribly unskilled at noticing that what you didn't say or didn't claim is at least as important.

Honestly, though, it's hard to imagine coming out ahead. I mean, to cultivate the berries you have to fly from town to town, finding small patches of soil where you can plant a berry or two, then you need to keep coming back every few hours to water the damn things or the soil will dry up and the berries will die. All this and maybe in a couple days that berry you planted will sprout into a bush with, what, two or three berries on it? And then as soon as you

If it's truly benign then I would not call it neglect. Sometimes doing nothing and leaving well enough alone is truly your best option (not that politicians want to understand this). The wisdom to know when this is the case versus situations you really should be taking direct control over is also not what I would call neglectful. Neglect would be failing to consider these things and act accordingly.

Yeah, I wouldn't bet my health on wikipedia's advice entirely if I were you. The poison is still present and it does cause problems. I imagine that the author of the page lived in a rural area where such lore was common(as I did) and they probably don't know any better. Seeing as how the severity of the poison is listed as "HIGHLY TOXIC, MAY BE FATAL IF EATEN!", I prefer to simply settle with some turnip greens or kale, which I find actually tastes better anyway, especially with some ham or bacon(mmm...baco

the first time I saw this stuff pop up in my yard, I really couldn't believe it. The first day there was a sprout, it was purple. The second day, it was knee high, purple. At least this is the way it seems. It really did look like a cartoon drawing of an alien plant, I expected seed pods in the front yard, each capable of implanting a crab shaped alien baby for incubation in human host. After a few weeks it was 2 meters, bright green with little hard green berries sprouting, I don't remember the flower stag

It is a clue relating to an old worldwide mystery. "salat" means "the secrets" in Finnish. I can't tell you anything more than that right now. Just trust me, you will find the coming couple of days strangely erotic...

What kind of solar panel is this? PV? Solar Thermal I guess would make more sense.
Why would they not just spray the dye on at the factory? Does the dye degrade? Wash off in rain?
If it's good for Africa, is it also good for everywhere else?
It sounds like they were clinging to straws to tie in the manufacturing of the product with something local in Africa.

It very well could be the specific chemical compound that gives the berries their color which is what is effective.. something with he same color might not be the same compound and might not have the same specific effect.

there are a lot of substances that go into manufacturing things - and if we can get them pre-made from a plant and it is easier to extract it from the plant to to make it our selves then it is advantages to do it.

Solar-thermal is most effective for a big plant. But big plants don't solve the power problems of developing third-world nations. Small plants without miles and miles of power-line infrastructure are more effective.

If you look at the history of the developed world you'll see a lot of small (non-electric) power sources bootstrapping the process. Long before you had big centralized power plants, there were plenty windmills and water mills, at first just for agriculture but later for things like manufacturin

Most of the "Developing nations" out there are still having trouble with clean water, roads, and reliable power. So we're going to stick them with solar ? First, who is going to pay for it ? Second, if they aren't getting reliable power through more traditional means (like coal), how is this REALLY going to help them at all ?

A small local solar generator may be more reliable than a large distant coal plant if there's likely to be interruptions in the power grid or political/economic turmoil which shuts the coal plant down or topples power lines. It's not "run a huge factory and light your home at night" but it could run some small agricultural equipment (a small mill, perhaps) or provide power for some communications equipment (radio, television, charge a cell phone) and things like that.

Most of the "Developing nations" out there are still having trouble with clean water, roads, and reliable power. So we're going to stick them with solar ? First, who is going to pay for it ? Second, if they aren't getting reliable power through more traditional means (like coal), how is this REALLY going to help them at all ?

Well, solar can be hooked up directly to the building you need to power, so you could get power into a school, for example, without needing any infrastructure.

And, I can see someone using this to run one of those UV water sterilizers. Imagine that -- a method of actually getting them sanitary water.

Getting cheap power to remote places facing the problems you identify might actually help them to try to alleviate some of the problems. I bet there's loads of examples that people can identify that if you can provide power, you can do something. Having power is better than not since you get more options.

I read an article the other day about some villagers in a remote corner of Afghanistan. There was a large generator which had been given to them years before which was lying unused. Apparently they had used the gas that came with it, calculated that it would cost 20 cents per house per night to run it, and never fired it up again. They couldn't afford the gas, which anyway would have been difficult to transport. A donated solar panel installation, on the other hand, might actually do them some good.

I read an article the other day about some villagers in a remote corner of Afghanistan. There was a large generator which had been given to them years before which was lying unused. Apparently they had used the gas that came with it, calculated that it would cost 20 cents per house per night to run it, and never fired it up again. They couldn't afford the gas, which anyway would have been difficult to transport. A donated solar panel installation, on the other hand, might actually do them some good.

Batteries require maintenance. Sure it's not hard but someone would have to do it.

True, but the ongoing cost of maintaining a bank of lead acid batteries is significantly less than the cost of providing fuel for a generator. These villagers were an extreme - they're poor even by Afghan standards - but I imagine that even they would see the value in it.

This page [fibercellinc.com] indicates that indium tin oxide is still used in the solar panel. Indium has got to be removed because it is an extremely expensive, worth over $500/kg, and it is rare and unsustainable. It's used to make transparent conductors. If we could make some kind of plastic as a transparent conductor, that would be helpful.

what i do is a store the construction information for a prefab nanoscale solar cell set up in a small protected sphere. with a little coaxing, the information stored in the sphere will begin assembling the solar array in a progressive manner that scales well in a fractal pattern that also maximizes solar exposure, including proprietary feedback mechanisms that is highly sensitive intellectual proerty. the solar assemblies are also plant based like the pokeberry mentioned one and are easily configured to various 3rd world climates

the solar technology i employ even cleans up greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and converts it into oxygen, water, and an energy storage compound which also happens to taste delicious. this solar product can be utilized as an energy source by 3rd world peoples in a variety of ways, including direct reconstitution to carbon via a high energy oxygen based deconstruction process that also produces a form of heating, or- get this, this is the part i'm most proud of- the 3rd world residents can consume the solar arrays DIRECTLY and their own bodies can utilize the energy storage medium for biological sustenance

this solar product can be utilized as an energy source by 3rd world peoples in a variety of ways, including direct reconstitution to carbon via a high energy oxygen based deconstruction process that also produces a form of heating, or- get this, this is the part i'm most proud of- the 3rd world residents can consume the solar arrays DIRECTLY and their own bodies can utilize the energy storage medium for biological sustenance

how come nobody thought of this tech before?

So the "3rd world residents" are also trees? If we could convince all the people in the 3rd world to just turn into trees, that would be great! You have to go public with your technology!

But you hid the catch: It does not work without lots of water or the proper composition of chemicals at the construction site. Which it uses up, so you can’t do it forever. And creating electricity from it is extremely inefficient. Also it takes lots of space.

I expected reading this article to call this hype... there are many new discoveries reported here on Slashdot, especially with regard to optical technologies like solar cells and LCD displays, that are interesting and potentially useful... if they were at all practical or near market ready.

This looked like another one, except upon reading what there is of the article and web page it just looks like the company building these has no PR or web staff, and seems completely focused on technology. Their web page looks like it was made by an intern, and they don't seem to have supplied much in the way of exciting facts or sound bites to the reporter, leaving them to provide some basic facts and fill in some boilerplate hyperbole: "Could Provide Low-Cost Solar for Developing Nations".

From the looks of the technology, the basic principles were discovered prior to 2007 and a patent filed about then. Likely the patent was just granted. The company that is researching this stuff formed then, got a round of funding, and started delivering prototypes and test types.

As of now they seem to be creating and testing whole assemblies, IE solar panels you can put outside and use for electricity.

This is interesting because it means this isn't a lab curiosity.. they haven't demonstrated an effect in the lab, they've actually managed to develop it into a form that is nearing mass production capability.

So why is this interesting for those of us not in the third world? Well, that bit about "developing nations" is an attempt to get people to relate to what the tech is good for.... possibly because wide implementation of solar power needs more than just good cells to work, it requires a massive change in infrastructure to distribute power or a major change on a per home basis to store and use the power in your own house. That's not as much of a problem in third world countries which have no reliable power anyway, and where people would be happy to have solar during the day.

Third world comments aside, if the efficiency curve they're measuring is correct, these cells are a disruptive technology for the solar cell business. They're cheap to produce, relatively environmentally friendly, flexible, light... basically an excellent solar cell technology that everyone can use everywhere it's sunny.

If these work out and get into mass production (the technology company making them is partnered with a couple manufacturing firms already) then you'll see a lot of them around everywhere, because they'll remove a couple major barriers to wider solar cell use... cost and the fragility of existing cells.

Of course, odds are this is another cool announcement that won't go anywhere, but at least there are indications of some substance here and there...

They look like a great acquisition target for GE, Shell, BP, or any of the other energy giants. Who could then lock these guys up in a lab forever doing "feasibility tests" and further research.

- Jasen.

Just like Activision tried to do with infinity ward? Yeah, that'll work out really well. Don't wait to see if they ever get funding: make SURE they get funded. Good move. And then drive them out to form your nightmare competitor. Good move again. Not to speak of the publicity, which would by itself account for a huge amount of damage. That's not even taking into account the fact they patented the stuff so it's out in the open and no longer a secret.

The summary link is to a blog, which gives a short not too useful summary and then links to this Science Daily article.

I like how Science Daily includes APA and MLA citation information at the bottom of their articles. Also, it seems like the fiber-based solar cells this article is about are the development, and the purple pokeberries are one of many possible natural or artificial dyes which could be used.

Thank you for this. Every time I click on an Inhabitat article I facepalm myself because there is next to no interesting information anywhere in the entire damned, 'article.' I really wish that people would submit articles with some actual technical information rather than a few sentences on some blog claiming how cool something is. It's getting frustrating.

Mod parent up. What happens when you leave an inkjet printout in the sun? Those dyes fade pretty quickly, and natural dyes are probably even more prone to fading. But if they can get the technology cheap enough to be disposable, or maybe reprintable, maybe there's still a useful niche.

Zero technical information. The obvious question is HOW does device create electricity from sunlight. Is the dye just a booster, or does it actuallly create the electricity?
They need a better writer, one who has some curiosity and perhaps a science degree.

If the big problem with DSSCs is that the dye breaks down, and this dye comes from a source that's as common and easy to cultivate as pokeweed, I don't see why a dye-flush couldn't be performed on the cells when it reaches the end of its lifetime.

More stable dyes would be great, but something that can be cheaply recycled/refreshed might be just as good.

Wind!! Considering all the gassy North Americans I've met ( me included ) we could export power to Mars. If we could figure out a way to harness farts, it would be a multiple source - wind power, methane, hydrogen.

That is a square in the Arizona desert 173421 meters wide (just over a hundred miles).

Oh, but solar thermal might harm the fragile desert ecosystem, and furthermore reduce the albedo of the desert leading to global waming.

(I used to joke about environmentalists complaining about reducing the albedo of the desert, but now some actually have, though simple math shows those environmentalists are idiots. Of course the real problem with solar thermal from an environmentalist point of view is it might actually w

The thermal energy balance for a solar panel runs vastly in the other direction. If our solar panel is pure black, and 14% efficient, then for each kWh of electric power that comes out, there are 7 kWh of heat that were absorbed and radiated. But each kWh it generates it eliminates the release of 1.4 pounds of CO2, which during its lifetime in the atmosphere will absorb 210,000 kWh of heat. So the energy balance for the solar panel (when it's connected to the US grid) is about NEGATIVE 209,993 kWh(heat) per kWh(electric) -- since some fossil power plant somewhere is being turned down based on its generation.

And if we're that concerned about albedo, we can make our roads, roofs, and parking lots whiter.

1: atmospheric effects brings the 1370 down close to your original estimate of 1100W. Albedo has no effect. Loss of transmission is on the order of 5-10% to transmit power halfway across the US even with our current outdated grid.

2: That 8 hour time period per day included huge fudge factors to account for cloud cover and dawn/dusk. In reality you could end up getting 25% to 50% more energy than that on most days.

1100W/m^2... so with enough area, we'd have limitless energy... how does that not meet our needs? Who says we need to stay on EARTH with our solar panels? Our available area is practically limitless, so it would take some time, but we COULD, theoretically speaking, run entirely off solar power.

I thought that the Civil War technology to make die out of Pokeberries was about the least interesting part of the story, but for some reason the writer chose to focus on the berries instead of the innovative fiber-based solar cells - odd?

The Pokeberries increase the efficiency of the panels, that's why they are brought up. "By coating the plastic sheets with a layer of purple pokeberry dye, the fibers can absorb even more sunlight to convert to power."

"Cheap" as in "our competitors will make it cheap in 20 years after the patent expires" is more likely. If they're going for a patent, they don't want it to be as cheap as possible. If they are going for a patent and targeting developing nations then one of three things is happening:

they are lying and using "developing nations" as a PR win

they want to charge high prices to developing nations for infrastructure with the higher efficiency being the only "cheap" part of the installation

They could be made out of slab of lead coated in mercury mixed with the blood of innocents and they would still be more environmentally friendly than most of the alternatives. Some of you idiots will bitch about anything.