Telling folks rng is rng in no way makes up for being on the shit end of the rng curve. Why is it that pvp has an almost entirely deterministic progression system but pve just can't?

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

I also call BS on 25%. There should be a built in counter displaying how many times a player has missed out on gear. Once this counter reaches a threshold like 4 bosses the next boss...boom loot. Both wings of flex and raid finder for 2 weeks and I have received 2 items, that's 2 items on 20 boss kills. Looking a little more like 10% to me.

Hmm I think it's very safe to keep that 20% drop rate for ToT instead of 16% you mentioned. The page of Treasures of the Thunder King also indicates that it's less than 80% chance to have a loser bag from any boss.

The drop rates on Treasures of the Thunder King are for all difficulties, you need to see the actual boss page and select LFR to just see LFR data. The 16% is adjusted from what you can see on WoWDB (~18%) due to an addon error that threw things slightly off.

It's always the LFR heroes whining about loot. You never see normal/heroic raiders crying over it. RNG is RNG it's the very basics of this game, if that fact makes you cry all the time then go play something else. All this loot protection crap is just blizzard giving baby its bottle. Time to ween.

I also believe that all gear drops on a dungeon and raid boss should have the same chance to drop. seeing the same thing drop almost everytime and the one piece you or someone on the team needs never drops except when that person is not present is stupid.

AFAIK everything is supposed to have the same drop chance (tier tokens aside unless they changed it since MoP), however it was suggested some time ago (see post 2) that Blizz's RNG code makes the same things happen in a row more often than it should. I dunno if this affects the loot tables from week-to-week (it certainly looks that way) but it surely causes 2-3 of the same item dropping off a boss far more often than it should, given the tiny odds of such a thing happening. (multiple drops of the same item should never have been applied to non-tier items in the first place, never mind the fact that the code seems to favour it)

Telling folks rng is rng in no way makes up for being on the shit end of the rng curve. Why is it that pvp has an almost entirely deterministic progression system but pve just can't?

LOL, you want people to get RNG drops from winning an Arena match??

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Originally Posted by Kazlehoff

so ghostcrawler said

am i the only person who thinks that if 25 man was worth playing, it wouldn't need protecting?

Players will always take the path of least resistance. 10s are much easier to organize, therefore will be done more. The problem is from a design perspective, the game is more fun playing in 25 man mode and the encounters can be more interesting with more people.

it isn´t about protecting 25ms, it is just about finding the proper reward balance to counteract the fact that 25s are harder to organize.

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Originally Posted by Shudder

It's always the LFR heroes whining about loot. You never see normal/heroic raiders crying over it. RNG is RNG it's the very basics of this game, if that fact makes you cry all the time then go play something else. All this loot protection crap is just blizzard giving baby its bottle. Time to ween.

Are you joking. The forums are filled with threads from raiders crying about cloaks being on the loot tables of bosses. Like half the posts a few days ago were tears on that issue.

I agree about people being silly complaining about bad RNG after only a few weeks, but this is hardly just LFR people who cry about loot.

I feel that the logical thing to assume would be that he wants it to be the other way around, having PvE match the loot system of PvP. But hey, just jump at the chance at making fun of people, it makes you seem bright.

AFAIK everything is supposed to have the same drop chance (tier tokens aside unless they changed it since MoP), however it was suggested some time ago (see post 2) that Blizz's RNG code makes the same things happen in a row more often than it should. I dunno if this affects the loot tables from week-to-week (it certainly looks that way) but it surely causes 2-3 of the same item dropping off a boss far more often than it should, given the tiny odds of such a thing happening. (multiple drops of the same item should never have been applied to non-tier items in the first place, never mind the fact that the code seems to favour it)

You need to understand statistics a little more. The odds of you getting the exact same item off of a boss two times in a row is actually fairly high depending on the loot table and your spec. On most bosses, probably 25% or 33%. (and just for the statistically challenged, there is a difference between getting ´the same´ item two times in a row, then getting ´a certain item two times in a row´. The problem is just with human perception.. we remember those things much more than we do the normal cases where we get a different item.

And to say Blizz´s RNG code is bad is just ignorant talk from people with no programming experience. These guys have programmed stuff like phasing, connected realms and some really crazy stuff... an RNG seed is very very basic stuff that is used and shared everywhere in programming and has been tested trillions of times. One guy saying ´omg, I got the same item 3 times in a row, Blizzards RNG is busted´ is kid´s talk.

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Originally Posted by Lohe

I feel that the logical thing to assume would be that he wants it to be the other way around, having PvE match the loot system of PvP. But hey, just jump at the chance at making fun of people, it makes you seem bright.

+1

Well, the devs have already commented on that many times. And obviously with no VP gear this patch they are moving away from that model. One dev mentioned recently that they felt it wasn´t as exciting to go shopping for gear 2 hours after a raid as it was to loot your sword from the corpse of a dead dragon.

This entire topic is just a bunch of whiners saying ´OMG, I want this new item and I didn´t get it the first 2 weeks´... Like I said, I have been the victim of terrible RNG this patch. Overall ilvl 540, weapon still at 510?? despite the fact that my weapon drops from the very first boss and I have used every stone, every week on that boss? But you just have to keep it in perspective.. on Tuesday, I have 5, or maybe 6 more rolls on that first boss ( and yes, I have won the helm twice already and fully expect to win another).

You know what is really unfun? if there is a store somewhere that sells my weapon and I can say ´wow, I only need to kill 9 more bosses and I will be able to buy it´.. That is boring. Blizzard has already given us a bad RNG dampener in the form of bonus rolls, they allow us to pick and chose which boss we want a better chance at.

This is just one of those things where players would make the game very boring if he got his way. Sorry, I want my weapon to come to me with dragon guts spilled on it, not with gift-wrapping and a price tag from an NPC store.

You know what is really unfun? if there is a store somewhere that sells my weapon and I can say ´wow, I only need to kill 9 more bosses and I will be able to buy it´.. That is boring. Blizzard has already given us a bad RNG dampener in the form of bonus rolls, they allow us to pick and chose which boss we want a better chance at.

This is just one of those things where players would make the game very boring if he got his way. Sorry, I want my weapon to come to me with dragon guts spilled on it, not with gift-wrapping and a price tag from an NPC store.

Apparently not. The developers keep this system in place for pvp. Why can't pvp have the same fun as everyone else? Aren't they just as deserving? Why not simple have a bg give a chance to drop a piece of loot?

The developers insistence on RNG drives players (specifically casual players) away. Who in gods name want's to waste their time for little to no reward? THEIR WAS NOTHING WRONG with buying my gear from a valor vendor. It gave me an alternative progression path that wasn't some horrid RNG abomination. You like getting your gear from bosses okay go forth and do that. No reason you can't do that and I can't have a valor vendor. You know what's really boring? Killing the same fucking boss over and over again for no gain at all. Constant frustration gets boring. After awhile you stop giving a fuck and then bye bye sub. I honestly cannot understand how you find a system ENTIRELY OUT OF YOUR CONTROL more interesting then a system where you have some measure of control in how you get the gear you want to get. You're not g etting the loot off the boss, you're getting the loot off some artificial dice roll machine in the background. I'd love to get the loot of the boss, if that actually happened but it doesn't. Who in their right fucking mind writes a fantasy novel and after the hero kills the dragon or black knight or whatever they get NOTHING out of it. Like wtf kinda fantasuy is that? It's a non fantasy. The heroes ALWAYS EXPECT a reward from killing the boss not simple a chance at a reward. Going back to even fantasy archetypes. Siegfried doesn't kill fafnir because some programmer somewhere gives him a 5% chance at loot. Siegfried kills fafnir full well knowing he will gain strength from it.

It's a fucking terrible fantasy robbing immersion killing system. The VENDOR was better. You can at least understand a world where you buy stuff from people for an acquired currency. People do that everyday. The constant cock block rng has NOTHING to do with the "fantasy" or the fun of the issue, it has everything to do with naked and obvious attempt to stretch out content that has little depth in an vein effort to keep subs retained and shove players into raiding. It's fucking terrible and I hope they lose millions of subs over the loss of the valor vendor. I mean I've got lots of criticism about the game but if I could rewind one thing it would be all the changes made to valor. It's a painfully stupid fucking regression to the game that wasn't necessary. It's TERRIBLE.

Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-09-30 at 01:07 AM.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Tbh bonus rolls drop rate is way to low I rolled like 12 times and got 0 loot

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Originally Posted by pikkuhukka

10man kill oh heroic garrosh? in my books, DOES NOT COUNT as a heroic world first

25man or gtfo

yes im serious, in 10man there is 15 less mistake makers, so yes,

that world first does not count

also, in asia, they get better loot when it comes to itemlevel so theyre ahead of us when it comes to itemlevel

and no, im not trolling, this is my honest opinion, 10man progress DOES NOT COUNT AS ANYTHING, 25MAN OR GTFO

/:=)

10 man is is just as hard as 25 man because you can only make 1 mistake maybe 2 and then it wipes on 25 man you can have more fuck ups as well as more healers to catch the dmg of mistakes I think your opinion is wrong and have a feeling you never did 10 man