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Last week Wal-Mart opened its Facebook group, The Roommate Style Match. Within hours, its wall was defaced by users criticizing everything, from its labor practices, to its environmental damage. Some demanded that Facebook remove the group. Others, like myself, asked that Wal-Mart disable the wall, as it was not being utilized favorably for the company. Wal-Mart should not have to pay to provide a forum for its critics.

Even then, however, the debate is not going to go away.

What should be done about Wal-Mart? Does it need regulation? To be partitioned? Who should clean up Wal-Mart? Does it need cleaning?

Is Wal-Mart just part of the larger problems with globalization and trade?

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I find myself having a constant moral debate every time I enter a Wal-Mart parking lot.
I think to myself
This huge sprawling box-like facility put many shops out of business.
This massive building sells things from third world countries that are paid pennies on the dollar to manufacture.
Then I realize I am very poor and cannot afford a moral debate about buying over-priced crap at Mom and Pop shops.
D:
The money usually wins.
I also worked for Wal-Mart and their labor policies are really unethical.
They keep workers just short of full-time, so benefits don't have to be paid.
I do think however it is up to the worker to be educated.
Also a plus, if you ever need a job and can find no other, Wal-Mart surely will hire you.

So I hate facets of Wal-Mart, but I also enjoy buying things I can wear that don't cost so much my eyes bleed black ink.

The funny thing about Walmart is that they aren't usually the lowest price, as they claim. The items in the main aisles in a Walmart are typically the only real deals in the store. Ever notice how the 9.99 microwave sitting in the middle of the aisle is next to the microwaves? Well, Average Joe sees that, then looks down the aisle at all the normal-priced microwaves and thinks "Wow, these must all be great deals!", when they aren't.

Walmart has revolutionized retail, however. Thier POS (point of sale, not the other acronym) and real-time inventory system are mind-boggling. To name a couple.

I have a friend who's first job was at Wal-Mart. He paid his way through college with money from Wal-mart. He's now the manager for all the stores in either Delaware or Franklin county Ohio. Wal-Mart helped him make his life better than it would have been if he worked for a mom 'n pop store.

I worked for walmart for 2 years as an unloader/stocker, I never got cheated out of hours or felt unfairly treated, in fact I think it was the best employer i've ever had to be honest. I don't know why they try to paint such a grim picture of being an employee there. Perhaps you should consider something more integral to the operation of the store than a cashier if you're having trouble proving your worth as a full time employee.

I'm ok with Wal-Mart. I don't see how it's any more of a monster than any other large corporation in America. I'd like them more if they didn't hire illegals, but again other corporations do that too.

I've heard that before, but I really don't see the reasoning behind it. Certainly there is nothing morally wrong with hiring someone from another country, even s/he has not been given a green card?

Morally I guess I have to agree with you because my take is if there is work to be done and someone wants to do it, then let's get them going.

Hm. Well, now that I think about it a little it would be immoral for me to give a job that could go to someone who spent the time and effort to legally go through the channels to get into this country to have said job and insted I gave it to a dude that hopped a fence and ran like hell.

Given the unstoppable and near-limitless power that Wal-Mart wields over just about every industry, the USA and its government, and every company under the sun, I'd say that they handle it better than just about every other company who has tried to assume this level of omnipotence.

The customer is still #1 in Wal-Mart's book, and that's a lesson many other companies have yet to learn.

Being good to your customers is what gets you your $400 million salary, Dumbshit McExecutive, not screwing with them just to make your projected profit margin.

As far as I'm concerned, Wal-Mart is just as evil as every other company ever, but at least they know how to cater to the people who gives them money, and they are brutally strict about keeping prices cheaper than everywhere else, even when they hold monopolies.

As an aside, giving an ultimatum to the music industry to either lower their prices or destroy them was absolutely beautiful.

I've heard that before, but I really don't see the reasoning behind it. Certainly there is nothing morally wrong with hiring someone from another country, even s/he has not been given a green card?

It's the whole "laws" thing, mostly, and all the things attached to them, like regulations.

But the main public objection there would be because many Americans are still trying to make a living via very old economic systems which don't work out so well with increased globalization and economic differences between neighboring regions.

It's kind of scary to realize that though you live in the first world you have to compete with the third world for your living if you failed to take maximum advantage of your environment (college, etc).

I dislike Wallmart, but I must admit that it is because of the kneejerk stuff that Gooey was talking about in [chat]. Also, that Vlasic pickle story that was brought up in the last thread.

The major problem that I have with Wallmart is that they are the store for people without much money, and they have an enormous profit margin, and yet they do nothing to try and make their products better. They have such huge economic power and don't do much positive (that I've heard of, I could be wrong) with said power.

Also the Wallmart in my town is really depressing.

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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular

As a person who has been working in third shift for three months now, I can comment with some authority on this whole packaging-reduction thing they're trying to do.

It's a load of hooey. La de da, I'm stocking picture frames. Open box. Remove bubble wrap. Remove second layer of bubble wrap. Remove THIRD layer of bubble wrap. Remove layer of paper. Remove sheet of cardboard. Remove HOUSE BRAND picture frame. Stock HOUSE BRAND picture frame. Move on to the SECOND picture frame with three bubble wrap layers, paper layer, cardboard sheet of its own. Break down box after removing all four- FOUR- frames. I am not exaggerating for effect. This has actually happened. Several times.

Oh, yes, and if it's cardboard, it goes in the baler for recycling. But if it's straight paper, which I have been told is made of the same wood pulp that cardboard is, it goes in the garbage.

Also. A few times I have been assigned to 'ball duty'. This was basically a reprieve from actual work. Fill up big ol' inflatable balls with air, run them to the bin out on the floor, repeat until you either run out of bin or run out of balls. They fill up slowly enough and there are enough balls that I can spend half the shift on this and still be able to say I've been going as fast as humanly possible.

The balls are of course rubber, which has to come from somewhere that produces rubber. South America, Mexico, Indonesia, somewhere. The rubber is made into ball form in a factory in China. The balls are then shipped from China to Ohio. From Ohio, the balls backtrack to the distribution center in Beaver Dam before coming here.

Now, how much gas is this using up to fly the balls from tree to shelf? Best-case, it's a route of Indonesia-China-Ohio-Beaver Dam-Watertown. Worst-case, it's BRAZIL-China-Ohio-Beaver Dam-Watertown. For balls that sell for $2.50. What you ought to do here is get the rubber from Mexico and have the balls made in the States as close to Bentonville as possible (as many of the stores are in that area or otherwise in the South). That makes a much greener route of Mexico-Arkansas-Ohio-Beaver Dam-Watertown. Better yet, cut Ohio out of the route entirely.

I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.

I know pretty much nothing about business, but I really feel depressed every time I go into Walmart. They're so bleak. Everyone working there looks so sad. I always come out of there feeling guilty and somewhat less human than before. Might just be my imagination, but looking out on those football-field-size parking lots stuffed with cars makes me a little sick inside.

Wal-Marts are depressing, bleak places coast to coast. If it weren't for the ubiquitous fluorescent lighting, you'd actually be able to see the desperation vapors swirling around.

Really though - where I use to live (Oxford, PA) we only had two very new Wal-Marts which were nice. When I moved out here(Wyomissing, PA) and worked for Target we were told a lot about how shitty Wal-Mart was and when I went to a local one... it was probably the worst store I had ever seen in my life. I couldn't find a single employee to ask for help or the damn thing I wanted either (zippo fluid).

Anecdotally, you'll find a wide variety of opinions on Wal-Mart. Not every store shorts people on overtime or locks them in overnight. However, corporate management has extreme pressure on store management to cut costs. When store management cuts costs by "forgetting" to pay you what you worked, corporate management looks the other way. Basically, you have to hope that the store manager you get stuck with isn't a dick.

From a customer's perspective, I haven't actively shopped in a Wal-Mart for years. Their products usually aren't much cheaper than a competitor's, and sometimes it's actually slightly more expensive. The quality of most goods (especially produce and textiles) is so poor that I busted a pair of jeans within a month and some ground beef I once bought turned green within 2 1/2 days.

I've found Target to have only slightly more expensive stuff with much more reasonable quality. I used to think it was the same in both stores if it was the same brand, but a lot of brands have a "Wal-Mart edition" of their products, and you can guess how it compares to their mainstream edition.

All in all, Wal-Mart does a lot of morally reprehensible things that other companies do as well, but their size means the impact of these practices are larger. I would expect that anti-Wal-Mart crusaders would take on the next-worst corporation once Wal-Mart is fixed/put out of business, but I don't see either one of those ever happening.

I remember reading a sci-fi short story that reminds me strangely of Wal-mart. It's the story of this industrialist in who has created a Wal-mart-like store that has finally grown so large that they are able to replace any mall or strip mall with a single gigantic store a few acres large. A grocery, pharmacy, clothing, electronics, automotive, home improvement, restauraunt and everything else behemoth. In turn every product inside of it will be produced by corporations that have gobbled each other up, each one eating the ones smaller than it until there are only a few left producing anything. Eventually everyone works for and produces for one aspect of the company or another, and even between nations it controls so much that it's able to create its own laws and boundaries.

Of course things take a turn for the worse when the owner of it, in true tycoon fashion, passes it on to his two sons and they incite what's more or less a corporate civil world war, With Wal-mart turning against Wal-mart and individual stores trying to destroy the competition in order to enlarge their profit margins and curry the favour of the Chairkings of the company. I wish I knew who wrote it, it was some pretty entertaining stuff.

If there was a video game called Sim-Retail, and you wanted to min-max everything and exploit every game mechanic you could, Wal-Mart is basically what you would end up with.

I'm not a fan, and I don't shop there (nine times out of ten, Costco/Winco/Target has a cheaper/better alternative anyway. The most frightening thing to me is the case of Wal-Marts in a few smalls towns, where they basically turn into the modern Pullman Company Store.

so next time you see recruiters in your school or your crib
tell'em thank you for the offer, but you'd rather you live

I find myself having a constant moral debate every time I enter a Wal-Mart parking lot.
I think to myself
This huge sprawling box-like facility put many shops out of business.
This massive building sells things from third world countries that are paid pennies on the dollar to manufacture.
Then I realize I am very poor and cannot afford a moral debate about buying over-priced crap at Mom and Pop shops.
D:
The money usually wins.

yeah, how much would it cost wal mart to class their stores up, just a little bit? like softer lights and a bit of carpet, or at least flooring that doesn't look like a high school auditorium.

Yes, you'd think it'd be to their benefit. The second I walk into Wal-Mart, my skin crawls and I just want out. This leads me to quickly grab the shit I came for, and move the fuck on. The lighting, the displays, the constant chatter over the intercom, just everything.

Unlike, say, Target...I can wander around there for an extra half-hour and have no problems. Often I'll end up buying shit I neither needed, nor even particularly wanted, because of this.

You know what's really fucked up? ShopKo. I don't even get their purpose. They lack the relative "class" of Target (generally their displays are even worse than Wal-Mart), yet they also don't seem to have the retail clout to compete directly with Wal-Mart on price. How they stay in business is beyond me. Their employees actually manage to look more depressed than Wal-Mart employees, too.

Oh, and while Wal-Mart is not always the lowest price, their prices in general are quite competitive. Especially on the low end (as opposed to, say, higher-quality brands). You may not save on a Sony television or shit like that, but if you're looking for the cheapest lamp in town they likely have it. And most of their other lamps will be either the same or cheaper than elsewhere. Basically on any given basket of goods it's highly unlikely that they'll end up costing more at Wal-Mart...though the savings might be marginal. [EDIT: Discounting stores that require membership, like Costco]

I have a similar negative reaction to Wal Mart like stores, yet for some reason that doesn't click when I go into huge super markets. I guess I like food a lot more.

Speaking of which, the Whole Foods in Kensington, London (first in UK iirc) is pure food porn. Oh and Whole Foods also had the FTC oppose it's takeover of a smaller rival, which has to be a first for the FTC. Although admittedly the WF CEO does seem a little crazy.

Freedom for the Northern Isles!

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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular

yeah, how much would it cost wal mart to class their stores up, just a little bit? like softer lights and a bit of carpet, or at least flooring that doesn't look like a high school auditorium.

Yes, you'd think it'd be to their benefit. The second I walk into Wal-Mart, my skin crawls and I just want out. This leads me to quickly grab the shit I came for, and move the fuck on. The lighting, the displays, the constant chatter over the intercom, just everything.

Don't forget the people. They're the deal breaker for me.

I loathe the people in Wal-Mart, even as I am one. The cognitive dissonance alone is enough to keep me focused on getting the hell out.

I wish people would leave Walmart alone. Yeah I get it. Some people that shop there are crazy, some people that work there don't get huge benefits. Who the fuck cares. The great thing about a free market economy is you can A) not shop there, and B) not work there.

There's nothing I hate more than people petitioning because they don't want to be associated with a Walmart, yet have five Starbucks within a three mile radius. "Oh but Starbucks is nicer, and has quality products!" Fuck you.

I wish people would leave Walmart alone. Yeah I get it. Some people that shop there are crazy, some people that work there don't get huge benefits. Who the fuck cares. The great thing about a free market economy is you can A) not shop there, and B) not work there.

Bullshit. Yes, in theory any given individual can choose not to work there. But until we hit 0% unemployment, at some point some people will end up effectively "forced" to work there (or, you know, starve).

Though apparently at my wife's school there's this teacher who is very vocal about never ever shopping at Wal-Mart, and refusing to support them. But every now and again if somebody else says they're going there, this teacher will give them money and ask them to grab something for her.

Because, you know, she doesn't shop at Wal-Mart.

So obviously economics is not part of the elementary education curriculum. Dumbass.

Oh god, this thread is destined to end poorly. I'm calling it now, we'll either have this slowly die out in the next day or so, or 15 pages later it'll be a handful of people who enjoy economics beating their heads on their keyboards while arguing with random people who simply hate the way capitalism works and dress it up in various bits of rhetoric.

Just because I randomly found it again recently, I think this was the last WalMart thread. It's pretty thorough, but it was split from another thread so there's some oddness in the first few pages.

I wish people would leave Walmart alone. Yeah I get it. Some people that shop there are crazy, some people that work there don't get huge benefits. Who the fuck cares. The great thing about a free market economy is you can A) not shop there, and B) not work there.

Bullshit. Yes, in theory any given individual can choose not to work there. But until we hit 0% unemployment, at some point some people will end up effectively "forced" to work there (or, you know, starve).

That is so much crap I don't know where to start. I had several friends who worked at Walmart, but none of them felt like they HAD to work there. Most of them were in junior high or high school and didn't even expect more than minimum wage, much less benefits. A high school diploma will get you a job outside of Walmart. Seriously.

Keep in mind I grew up in Arkansas, where Walmart DEFINED a "real" city. Despite that, there ARE other jobs out there. Nobody HAS to work ANYWHERE. To be forced to work there is the epitome of laziness.

That is so much crap I don't know where to start. I had several friends who worked at Walmart, but none of them felt like they HAD to work there. Most of them were in junior high or high school and didn't even expect more than minimum wage, much less benefits. A high school diploma will get you a job outside of Walmart. Seriously.

Gee whiz, what a surprise. A person in junior high or high school doesn't feel like they "had" to work somewhere. That's because presumably these people are not supporting themselves. I mean, what the fuck?

Actual grownups need jobs. There are, despite a growing economy, a limited number of jobs available at any given time. It's like a giant game of musical chairs, and some poor fuckers are going to get stuck standing (or, in other words, working at places like Wal-Mart or Wal-Mart specifically).

Just because your buddies who were putting in a few hours for weed money didn't feel too trapped there doesn't mean there don't exist actual adults who are pretty much stuck there. Also, a high school diploma may not get you a job outside Wal-Mart, depending on your local economy. It certainly won't get you a job outside retail, and retail wages are also affected by Wal-Mart's practices.

Keep in mind I grew up in Arkansas, where Walmart DEFINED a "real" city. Despite that, there ARE other jobs out there. Nobody HAS to work ANYWHERE. To be forced to work there is the epitome of laziness.

Yes, but EVERYBODY (who doesn't want to starve) HAS to work SOMEWHERE. Gee, caps are fun. The point is that given that there are a limited number of jobs available, some people do actually have to work at Wal-Mart.

This doesn't necessarily mean we should take any particular actions towards or against Wal-Mart. But to act as if anybody working there is either there because they want to be or are too lazy to find another job is just a wee bit inaccurate.

Actual grownups need jobs. There are, despite a growing economy, a limited number of jobs available at any given time. It's like a giant game of musical chairs, and some poor fuckers are going to get stuck standing (or, in other words, working at places like Wal-Mart or Wal-Mart specifically).

This is somewhat technical, but I love me some economics, so here goes: The current unemployment rate is pretty near optimal, meaning that anyone that wants a job can get one and no one (barring extraordinary circumstances) is forced to work in any job they do not wish to. 5% (I think that's roughly our current unemployment rate) is just about the number you expect at "full employment" where just short of all jobs are filled by people who want to be working them.

Now, this isn't to ignore the transition costs that may keep people in a job they don't like because they can't afford to risk quiting, but that's going to exist no matter what else is going on.

Long story short, and really tangential to what the issue at hand, I think it IS fair to say that, as much as is ever humanly possible, most people who are currently working at walmart are doing so because they want to.

That is so much crap I don't know where to start. I had several friends who worked at Walmart, but none of them felt like they HAD to work there. Most of them were in junior high or high school and didn't even expect more than minimum wage, much less benefits. A high school diploma will get you a job outside of Walmart. Seriously.

Gee whiz, what a surprise. A person in junior high or high school doesn't feel like they "had" to work somewhere. That's because presumably these people are not supporting themselves. I mean, what the fuck?

Actual grownups need jobs. There are, despite a growing economy, a limited number of jobs available at any given time. It's like a giant game of musical chairs, and some poor fuckers are going to get stuck standing (or, in other words, working at places like Wal-Mart or Wal-Mart specifically).

Just because your buddies who were putting in a few hours for weed money didn't feel too trapped there doesn't mean there don't exist actual adults who are pretty much stuck there. Also, a high school diploma may not get you a job outside Wal-Mart, depending on your local economy. It certainly won't get you a job outside retail, and retail wages are also affected by Wal-Mart's practices.

Keep in mind I grew up in Arkansas, where Walmart DEFINED a "real" city. Despite that, there ARE other jobs out there. Nobody HAS to work ANYWHERE. To be forced to work there is the epitome of laziness.

Yes, but EVERYBODY (who doesn't want to starve) HAS to work SOMEWHERE. Gee, caps are fun. The point is that given that there are a limited number of jobs available, some people do actually have to work at Wal-Mart.

This doesn't necessarily mean we should take any particular actions towards or against Wal-Mart. But to act as if anybody working there is either there because they want to be or are too lazy to find another job is just a wee bit inaccurate.

At any point in your life have you felt like if you didn't work at a certain company you would never work? I know that I haven't. Even when I had zero experience. If you cannot get anything better than Walmart when you're an "actual grownup" then it's not Walmart's fault. It's the dumbass's fault who doesn't have enough education and experience after 20+ years to have an excuse.

What were they doing the whole time? Why is it Walmart's fault that people in this world are lazy idiots? Guess what. I'm not even 30 and I don't EVER have to work there for any reason. It's not like I came from rich parents. I'm from Walmart Country. Arkansas isn't exactly the top 10 economies in the USA, yet I didn't feel the need (nor did anyone I know) to work at Walmart.

Cry me a fucking river, people have to work. Waaaaaaah. They don't have to work at any given institution, and to think that someone is forced into a third-world living condition because of Walmart is fucking stupid.