I can understand that. While it was a great character growth story in the comics, most people go to iron man movies wanting to see iron man you know... Doing iron man stuff. To do justice to the Demon in a Bottle story it would dominate the entire movie.

Although... I could totally see this as a possible 2 episode Special Event on the new S.H.I.E.L.D. show... You never know.

/mother is a alcoholic//has mad respect for anyone who pulls themselves out of that gutter.

I'm OK with this. Besides, it's a little late at this point when they've had three movies of him just being a fun-loving playboy that likes an occasional drink that doesn't display the slightest signs of aloholism.

In Tony STark's defense, having to hang out all day listening to Gwyneth Paltrow babble about how the secret to good health is holistic organic hand-crafted seaweed crudite flown in daily from the Netherlands at a price of $87,500 per ounce would drive one to drink.

Captain Kickass:I'm no Comic Book Guy, but isn't that one of the character's defining characteristics?

I don't think the 1980's-era comic book publishers had to worry about the financial impact of a phone call from Seagram or Anhauser-Busch. That's probably only a small part of the equation though.

Iron Man and Avengers both cater heavily to a younger audience and families with kids. Complex, distressing characters don't always fit in well. Watchmen, on the other hand, got a very different audience, and could use plots involving betrayal, substance abuse, and aging in a way audiences could follow and not find excessively jarring.

Sortof. They didn't want to make *that* about his alcoholism either... So they gave him the 'reason' of dying from palladium poisoning or whatever to make him just fatalistic (and not *really* an alcoholic because that's icky). Once that was cleared up, he no longer had a reason to feel bad. It was a cop out.

They could address his alcoholism without it being Leaving Las Vegas. James Bond is clearly a drunk and it never brings the movie down. Shane Black is one of the best action screenwriters in Hollywood, let him do what he wants. Farking suits.

Ever notice how Hollywood takes books or stories that people enjoy, and turn them into a Race Against Time. Instead of building up the story, they force feed it into their cookie cutter, proven true to work storyline assembly line. Add in witty dialogue, have a love interest and Voila! The movie with the book name is ready.

Holllywood is afraid to take chances, they know the tropes that work for the slack jawed public and stick very close to them. It doesn't surprise me this is happening, and I expect a metric farkton of CG and 'splosions to be thrown at the screen. It's what we expect from summer blockbusters. It's how Michael Bay has made his career.

They're missing one of the story's recurring and central dramatic pieces. What they don't understand is that without a human drama behind it, Iron Man is just a boom flash pow silly little story about aliens or something.

With his wealth, genius, super-suit, etc. he has immense power in his hands, and if he's half in the can while he's using it then there's the question of whether he's safe or a danger, and whether his decision-making about what and who to blow up or which laws to break "because he had to" is something that makes him a hero or a villain. That is a huge storyline that they're kind of throwing away. Without it he's just a guy in a metal suit who makes things go boom.

Mugato:They could address his alcoholism without it being Leaving Las Vegas. James Bond is clearly a drunk and it never brings the movie down. Shane Black is one of the best action screenwriters in Hollywood, let him do what he wants. Farking suits.

Eh, I dunno. Once they really say "Tony, you're a farking alcoholic, you need to stop drinking", it becomes something that impacts every other time we see him, especially if he's having a drink. It would color all the other movies too. And if he magically just gets better, it's both unrealistic and robbing him of the struggle. True alcoholism's a real biatch.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a certain amount of quiet depressive drinking in secret--hints, really--since the voice-over from the trailer is pretty bleak. He can't sleep, he's nervous, etc. Taking a little self-medication from a hip flask before a news conference or some other situation where he has to be 'on' could add layers, without Pepper and War Machine staging an intervention.

Mugato:They could address his alcoholism without it being Leaving Las Vegas. James Bond is clearly a drunk and it never brings the movie down. Shane Black is one of the best action screenwriters in Hollywood, let him do what he wants. Farking suits.

Pretty much this. Although the Demon in a Bottle was done in the comics and is canon, that doesn't mean that the movie has to do it. So he's a playboy that likes to drink, drive fast cars, and beat up on baddies. So's James Bond and you don't see a movie with him confronting his addiction to Vodak martini's.

I just figured that's what the whole storyline was with the virus in IM2. They just substituted the virus for alcohol.If they wanted to do the drunk story, that should have started in the first one.Bringing it up now would be bad storytelling.

Captain Kickass:I'm no Comic Book Guy, but isn't that one of the character's defining characteristics?

Yes. Stark's recurring battle with alcoholism is key to the dramatic attraction of the Iron Man franchise, at least from the comic perspective. A truly, brutally, human experience with which Stark repeatedly wrestles - to cut it is to cut one of the things that gave the Iron Man story its appeal.

I can see why they cut it for the movies, but it's still a shame that they did so.

HST's Dead Carcass:Ever notice how Hollywood takes books or stories that people enjoy, and turn them into a Race Against Time. Instead of building up the story, they force feed it into their cookie cutter, proven true to work storyline assembly line. Add in witty dialogue, have a love interest and Voila! The movie with the book name is ready.

Holllywood is afraid to take chances, they know the tropes that work for the slack jawed public and stick very close to them. It doesn't surprise me this is happening, and I expect a metric farkton of CG and 'splosions to be thrown at the screen. It's what we expect from summer blockbusters. It's how Michael Bay has made his career.

McDonald's hamburgers are bland, flavorless, utterly uninteresting wads of grease, salt, and sugar. Their only selling point is that they are always the same. You can go into any McDonald's in the US and know precisely what experience you're going to have, without even looking at the menu. Every town I've ever visited has at least one or two places that make far better burgers than McDonald's, but McDonald's continues to be one of the most successful businesses in the world. Familiar mediocrity is often more attractive to people than unfamiliar excellence.

The biggest effect of the transition from the 70s-era comics to the 80s was that comics stopped being white hat vs black hat. The characters got more or less bounded by physics and began being treated like actual characters. It's of course logical that since this is what made them successful, we should backpedal.

YodaBlues:Mugato: Farking studio suits need to go back to their hookers and blow and stay out of the creative process.

The studio in question here is Marvel Studios though. Comic book execs are more likely to be doped out on dimetapp than cocaine.

Marvel is going to take the official blame for it, but Disney told them straight off the instant they got bought that they weren't allowed to do 'Demon in a Bottle'. I remember it being a thing back when Iron Man 2 came out and fans were beginning to ask questions.

/no movie with Ben Kingsley as the villain is ever good//but this news just makes me want to ignore renting the DVD as well

elvindeath:In Tony STark's defense, having to hang out all day listening to Gwyneth Paltrow babble about how the secret to good health is holistic organic hand-crafted seaweed crudite flown in daily from the Netherlands at a price of $87,500 per ounce would drive one to drink.

Acting... the reason we love Pepper Potts despite heaping scorn on Gwyneth and her horrible ways is that it's acting. Pepper, as depicted, would not run "Goop" because she has more to occupy her than $12,000/lin. ft. hand-painted wallpaper.

No, that's what studio execs think movies are about. And since that's all they give us, that's all we get. But a movie can break from the standard tropes and if it's good, people will see it. Except movies are so damned expensive nowadays, the studios won't take a $200mill dollar risk on a movie that may be the next Matrix or the next Sucker Punch. So we get paint by numbers comic book movies and remakes.

Sortof. They didn't want to make *that* about his alcoholism either... So they gave him the 'reason' of dying from palladium poisoning or whatever to make him just fatalistic (and not *really* an alcoholic because that's icky). Once that was cleared up, he no longer had a reason to feel bad. It was a cop out.

note: he was drinking in avengers.

Yes, he poured himself a drink during the scene at the top of Stark Tower.

He also had a drink in his hand during the opening scene of Iron Man, and was plastered during the party scene in Iron Man 2 (the scene where he pees in the suit).

They have not shied away from showing Tony Stark as an enthusiastic drinker, but they haven't really shown him as a true alcoholic mess.

Captain Kickass:I'm no Comic Book Guy, but isn't that one of the character's defining characteristics?

palelizard: Mugato: They could address his alcoholism without it being Leaving Las Vegas. James Bond is clearly a drunk and it never brings the movie down. Shane Black is one of the best action screenwriters in Hollywood, let him do what he wants. Farking suits.

His alcoholism is definitely one of his defining characteristics. Every time I see him pick up a drink in the movies, I have to remind myself that movie Tony isn't yet an alcoholic.

unyon:Captain Kickass: I'm no Comic Book Guy, but isn't that one of the character's defining characteristics?

palelizard: Mugato: They could address his alcoholism without it being Leaving Las Vegas. James Bond is clearly a drunk and it never brings the movie down. Shane Black is one of the best action screenwriters in Hollywood, let him do what he wants. Farking suits.

His alcoholism is definitely one of his defining characteristics. Every time I see him pick up a drink in the movies, I have to remind myself that movie Tony isn't yet an alcoholic.

Recently one of the biggest ongoing stories to happen to him was he re-lapsed during an 'end-of-the-world-it's-all-hopeless' scenario. And his alcoholism is a publicly known fact in the marvel universe. The government wanted to take away his special get out of jail free cards, etc... since they now had reason to believe a walking WMD was getting drunk again.

No, that's what studio execs think movies are about. And since that's all they give us, that's all we get. But a movie can break from the standard tropes and if it's good, people will see it. Except movies are so damned expensive nowadays, the studios won't take a $200mill dollar risk on a movie that may be the next Matrix or the next Sucker Punch. So we get paint by numbers comic book movies and remakes.

We do occasionally get those great ones, and there are hundreds of fantastic independent films as well. But you're right, mediocrity is due to risk aversion; not just in the studio heads, but in the audiences. As long as "Same as it ever was" continues to sell, they'll continue to make it. They're not doing it just to be assholes; they're doing it because people keep buying it. If it wasn't profitable, they'd do something else.

FloydA:We do occasionally get those great ones, and there are hundreds of fantastic independent films as well. But you're right, mediocrity is due to risk aversion; not just in the studio heads, but in the audiences. As long as "Same as it ever was" continues to sell, they'll continue to make it. They're not doing it just to be assholes; they're doing it because people keep buying it. If it wasn't profitable, they'd do something else.

And when the movie doesn't perform, the blame Piracy!! And go after people to get their money. I'm not condoning pirating the movie, if it's bad, why even download it?

I'm talking about all the remakes specifically. Clash Of The Titans was a moment in time, the remake terrible all the way around. Red Dawn was a moment in time, the remake was terrible all the way around. If it's not a remake, it's a well known property and they force it into the formulaic trend and release it with tons and tons of CGI. Maybe if they paid the screenwriters more to make compelling stories, they could cut back on the CGI.

Additionally, like you said, they don't take risks. There are plenty of films that have taken risks, and if successful, they rip off everything that they think made the movie successful and throw it into every new movie that comes out, thus killing the uniqueness.

It's M. Night Shamalamadingdong theory: If it works, keep rehashing it over and over and over and over until the public doesn't buy it anymore, then take the successful parts and force it into the formula.

Whomever thought this was a GOOD idea is a moron. Robert Downey Jr.'s addiction issues are well-known (glad he's still sober). I think having an addict play an alcoholic would be terribly unsympathetic.

slayer199:Whomever thought this was a GOOD idea is a moron. Robert Downey Jr.'s addiction issues are well-known (glad he's still sober). I think having an addict play an alcoholic would be terribly unsympathetic.

PsyLord:Mugato: They could address his alcoholism without it being Leaving Las Vegas. James Bond is clearly a drunk and it never brings the movie down. Shane Black is one of the best action screenwriters in Hollywood, let him do what he wants. Farking suits.

Pretty much this. Although the Demon in a Bottle was done in the comics and is canon, that doesn't mean that the movie has to do it. So he's a playboy that likes to drink, drive fast cars, and beat up on baddies. So's James Bond and you don't see a movie with him confronting his addiction to Vodak martini's.

Demon in a Bottle was nothing. That was one issue.

The major Drunk Tony story (and story that should be a movie all its own) was issues 170-200. Tony becomes a full-on drunk, gives the armor up to Rhodey, loses his company, loses his fortune, becomes a homeless guy wandering the streets, then throws in with some underfunded inventors and winds up getting sober, fighting Obadiah Stane, and debuting the kickass Silver Centurion armor.