Hey we have a 2 group Synesso at our shop that basically only gets used for hot water for tea and training. We always have the machine on in case we need it to back up our other machine. Is there any danger of damaging our machine by leaving it on all of the time with little use of the groups but a lot of use of the Americano water spout? It feels like we should be using it more to keep the water in the boilers fresh or something like that? Am I paranoid? Thanks.

I am no expert by any means, but we use a 3 group Sabre at our roastery for tasting/making coffees for the 6 staff (i.e. not a lot of use). We managed to sieze up one of the solanoids with lack of use. i.e. the scale in the water locked it up because it sat stagnant for too long, as I understand it.

I've been told by machine technicians who descale boilers etc. that the worst machines they've seen are usually the ones with the least amount of use. They like to have water moving through all their water parts regularly

Ed, if you're really not using the groups at all then you should consider a different hot water source and turn the machine off. Ideally, you want to keep the water moving through all the parts so the mineral content is not baking/cooking/stewing in there...it probably is not worth the service call just to have a hot water source.

Ed- do you have predictable "busier" days where you could turn the machine on at those times? There are days (not a regular occurrence) where we could use a second machine for sure, but we get by with one and sometimes the lines get a little long. If you don't think you're going to use it... flip it to someone else as I'm sure you'd be able to get your money back. Then you could get a really pimped out hot water tower (or two if you want different temps).

I'm not a fan of turning stuff off and on frequently- we used to shut our one machine down every weekend (our second shop is only open weekdays) and the regular contraction/expansion of materials has led to more than a few problems (blew up a steam valve). Now we just leave it running 24/7. Not sure what kind of scale buildup we're getting... it's probably time I check again.

Just one thing bugging me about this thread: AFAIK scale only builds up from water once ie. if the the water has lost its carbonates and other stuff (really scientific, huh), further heating does not allow extra minerals to precipitate (cause there are none, that would). So water just heated and kept hot precipitates a certain amount of scale according to its carbonate and total hardness (another factor is temperature) and then it goes flat, it`s just lacking the minerals to create scale. The source of my very poorly written post Jim Schulman`s water FAQ chapter 7 is a good place to start.

However, i do find that water left sitting in brew boilers tend to get a bit skanky, thats why i change the water in boilers (also steam boiler) every once in a while. Just a note, so you`d know where i stand, im using DallaCorte Evolution 2group machines+DC Mini.

Thanks for the great replies. I understand what you mean by the water going flat after it loses it's mineral content to attach itself to the flow restrictors and other parts of the machine. What I have not noticed this thread covering is the issue of occasionally replenishing the water mineral supply and letting it sit in a heated environment can cause a lot of harm. Layers and layers of deposits can build up much faster than if the water were flowing more regularly. I have done a little research outside of the thread and have discovered that little use is the worst thing that can be done to a machine short of throwing it in front of a subway train. Thank you for saving me a huge future headache.

Ed Kaufmann wrote: I have done a little research outside of the thread and have discovered that little use is the worst thing that can be done to a machine short of throwing it in front of a subway train. ....

How about sharing some of that research Ed. What have you found out specifically that we can add to the info in this thread?

I have not experimented with the Synesso + subway train yet but what I did learn about mineral deposits and how little use is worse than heavy or no use is about all I have so far. When the intricate parts of that machine get scaled up, they are not happy. Little or occasional use of an espresso machine (depending on regional water makeup) is the worst thing for the machine.

Next question: Do I drain the boilers while the machine sits with the possibility of occasional use? If we were preparing to do a training, I would try to flush as much of the water out of the boilers as possible. Is it better to drain and refill the boilers before the training? I wouldn't want to use skunky water for espresso training.

Ed, it's a Synesso... why not just cut the heating elements OFF for the brew boilers, and continue to use the steam boiler? There's no machine that's easier to do that on than a Synesso!

Turn the temps down all the way to OFF on the brew-tank zones on the control panel.

OR, if that's too scary... turn the temps down to something like 100*F?

Either way, the steam boiler being on should help keep the environment warm enough to reduce the negative effects of "on-off" while also reducing the scale issues.

When it's time to do a training, run a couple of liters of water through each group, which should replace most of the sitting water with fresh water. Then kick-on your brew-group heating elements and you should be ready to go in less than an hour!

terry wrote:Except for the Dalla Corte Evolution, The LM GS/3, and the Astoria Plus 4 U, allot has changed......

I hear ya T.Z., but if I'm not mistaken, only with the Synesso could you do that by pressing just one button. No? I'm not as familiar with the Dalla Corte or the Astoria. I know with the GS/3, it takes more than one button press.

With DallaCorte it is also possible just push-hold the on/off button that is located with others buttons on the front panel. Additionally, one can easily cut the water supply to group(s) and still have the steam boiler running.

With the correct cadence I can clap on all three or turn them off individually. I prefer to use the clapping sequence from the tune Center Field by John Fogerty, as I can adjust the temp of each group as well