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Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

The fact that we missed out on bargain amnesty players in Scola and Brand as well as not being able to take advantage of the low ball market for Mayo and Kaman is the fault of our front office. It was simply poor time management in how the signed Hibbert and Hill and that is the job or Walsh and Pritchard. I will not believe that a conversation with Hibbert and Hill to explain to them that they'd get their money no matter what but could return to a more talented team if they waited a few more weeks wouldn't have worked.

Yes, it was a matter of poor timing that the Pacers missed out on Scola or Brand....but was it even known that Scola and Brand were going to hit the Amnesty market during the time that the Pacers were pursuing Free Agents?

In other words....was it known that Scola and Brand were going to become available via Amnesty but the Pacers still pursued Mahinmi, DJ and Green?

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

Yes, it was a matter of poor timing that the Pacers missed out on Scola or Brand....but was it even known that Scola and Brand were going to hit the Amnesty market during the time that the Pacers were pursuing Free Agents?

In other words....was it known that Scola and Brand were going to become available via Amnesty but the Pacers still pursued Mahinmi, DJ and Green?

Yes, Brand was available and I think Dallas closed on him before we signed Hibbert and Hill.
Scola was Amnestied before we signed them as well but the bidding hadn't closed. All it would have taken was to move the signings back a few days. I don't care what the agents wanted, Walsh didn't have to cave. When you have cap space you wait to use it. The way we rushed to sign our own free agents was poor time management.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

Yes, Brand was available and I think Dallas closed on him before we signed Hibbert and Hill.
Scola was Amnestied before we signed them as well but the bidding hadn't closed. All it would have taken was to move the signings back a few days. I don't care what the agents wanted, Walsh didn't have to cave. When you have cap space you wait to use it. The way we rushed to sign our own free agents was poor time management.

I was VERY surprised aswell that we rushed to an aggreement with Hill, the amount we paid him AND used our only 5th year contract on him. No, actually, I was very surprised and quite pissed off about it. I don't believe at all that the market for Hill was THAT good and I thought that contract was too rich, especially considering the 5th year inclusion and the discussions by management about a new contract with him earlier.

With regards to Hibbert I aggreed what management did and I still think they did the right thing.

Either way, yeah, pretty horrendous time management with regards to Hill and personally I would have preffered us to sign a decent impact player for the 2nd unit instead of spreading the remaining money on several bench players.

Btw am I happy that that deal that management tried to make with Charlotte didn't come through. We would have had Augustin for 2 years and no Tyler currently.

I really hope D.J. starts making a meaningfull presence on the court, but I dont like the body language I am seeing and much less the play. Samething with Ian, unfortunately. Hope he, Mahinmi, can show us what he did during pre-season.

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Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

just give the new guys a break, D.J. had his best game of the year last game, Ian had a decent game as well, we don't need Ian to do a lot of scoring, just rebound and play D. Gerald will be a good signing for us IMO. Just give him some time. A lot of you like to hate on his basketball IQ, so you should understand why it will take him some time to get used to the offense. They will be good signings, just wait.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

just give the new guys a break, D.J. had his best game of the year last game, Ian had a decent game as well, we don't need Ian to do a lot of scoring, just rebound and play D. Gerald will be a good signing for us IMO. Just give him some time. A lot of you like to hate on his basketball IQ, so you should understand why it will take him some time to get used to the offense. They will be good signings, just wait.

That's one good game for both DJ and Ian out of 14. I'd like to see them play well in 50% of their games before singing their praises. I guess that means playing a lot of good games for a while which based on past performance I don't have a lot of faith in.

We don't have the cap flexibility to make many deals, and usually junk doesn't get you quality players. How is Hansbrough and Green or Lance a good package for former ROY Tyreke Evans?

I think this team is what it is. The only significant trades we could do will probably have to involve George, Granger, maybe West.

Well, I'd agree, except last season it was reported multiple times that the Kings were not re-signing Tyreke. He's likely available, and it wouldn't have to be a 1-1 trade. If they are planning on letting him go for nothing, they'll be more likely to do a deal more favorable to the other team.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

Well, I'd agree, except last season it was reported multiple times that the Kings were not re-signing Tyreke. He's likely available, and it wouldn't have to be a 1-1 trade. If they are planning on letting him go for nothing, they'll be more likely to do a deal more favorable to the other team.

All that's really been decided in Sacramento is that Evans wasn't getting the contract extension over this past fall. He'll still be a restricted free agent this summer and they can match any deal he gets. I don't think they've closed the door on keeping him if the money is right.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

It is Green Grass Syndrome, where what you have is never as good or better than what others have.

You can repeat the "grass is greener on the other side bs" all you want but you know it and I know it that what the Pacers have is not as good or better than what many other teams have.

By the way to use the "grass is always greener on the other side" bs you at least need to have some grass in your side to at least compare it to other teams "grass", right now what the Pacers have is an empty lot full of weed with dog turd in top of it..... "grass is always greener syndrome" you guys are funny....

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

Are you kidding me. Lance is not in Evans league right now and won't be until the Pacers put the ball in his hands and let him do what he does best. Swap his and Hills roles and you might get some results. Hill is not a point, does not create or push the ball or pass the ball effectively and is way to lackadasial. He came out way too soft against Parker and got torched. Thats against a player he should know very well that he couldn't do that.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

I was VERY surprised aswell that we rushed to an aggreement with Hill, the amount we paid him AND used our only 5th year contract on him. No, actually, I was very surprised and quite pissed off about it. I don't believe at all that the market for Hill was THAT good and I thought that contract was too rich, especially considering the 5th year inclusion and the discussions by management about a new contract with him earlier.

With regards to Hibbert I aggreed what management did and I still think they did the right thing.

Either way, yeah, pretty horrendous time management with regards to Hill and personally I would have preffered us to sign a decent impact player for the 2nd unit instead of spreading the remaining money on several bench players.

Btw am I happy that that deal that management tried to make with Charlotte didn't come through. We would have had Augustin for 2 years and no Tyler currently.

I really hope D.J. starts making a meaningfull presence on the court, but I dont like the body language I am seeing and much less the play. Samething with Ian, unfortunately. Hope he, Mahinmi, can show us what he did during pre-season.

So much this on Hibbs and Hill. I was pissed they just gave Hill a huuuuuuuuuge deal, but waited for the market to dictate Hibbert. Everyone and their grandmother knew Hibbert was going to get the max. However, there was no *****ing way that Hill would have. Look at Courtney Lee, he got well below what he was asking. No way Hill gets closed to $8M/yr. Why, cause he's an undersized sg that is playing point. I doubt there were many teams looking to pay top dollar for that.

And no one knew about Scola, but the thing that pisses me off, is that for a franchise like the Pacers that must to be cost conscience, why the hell don't you wait till after the deadline for amnesties to sign players? The Pacers should be targeting amnesty players. Some good players and they are cheap. You'd think that would be a no brainer! But not for this Pacers team. We'll just over pay big time to keep average talent. *sigh*

And I like Hill and Hibbert. I was fine with the Pacers matching Hibbert and I'm still fine. Big guys are overpaid, I know this. Hibbert is a very good defender, but limited on offense. I think his shooting numbers will improve. I don't expect him to put up 20ppg. I think 15-18ppg should be just fine. He also does so much for the community, which is difficult to put a number on.

The deal for Hill was just dumb. Love the guy and what he brings, but just a dumb dumb deal.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

Remember when free agency opened OJ Mayo and Courtney Lee were the 2 scorers off the bench the Pacers were linked to but both wanted starter money Lee around 8 mil and Mayo 10 and both according to sources seemed to have multi-team interest.

Once the Blazers reached an agreement with Hibbert and Hill agreed to his contract the Pacers did not have the money Mayo wanted to offer him. Mayo got the Suns offer which was in the 8 mil range. With the fear of not getting the scorer they wanted off the bench they reached out and signed Gerald Green for 3.5 mil per instead.

After the Mahinmi trade and the Augustin signing pushed the Pacers against the luxury tax is when the Mayo decision to sign for less in Dallas occured, the Pacers could not act at that point. In hindsight if the Pacers had known the market would dry up for Mayo and Lee they may have waited on signing Gerald Green. They acted to assure themselves of getting one of the 3 they had targeted in Green rather than getting no one.

They drug their feet just like they always do and hope something falls in their lap just like losers do. No young up and coming player is going to take Walsh seriously at his age. He can't relate to them, he is toast and has been for a long time. I don't want to hear that he brought Amare and Carmelo to NY that market did that. As soon as he was gone is when someone put the pieces around them to make them a good team. He relied on cheap youth and they brought in proven veterans who know how to get it done. He is trying the same thing here only we have no stars and nobody to carry the team.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

And no one knew about Scola, but the thing that pisses me off, is that for a franchise like the Pacers that must to be cost conscience, why the hell don't you wait till after the deadline for amnesties to sign players? The Pacers should be targeting amnesty players. Some good players and they are cheap. You'd think that would be a no brainer! But not for this Pacers team. We'll just over pay big time to keep average talent. *sigh*

You do realize that the Pacers could have placed a bid on Scola, right? The highest bidder (PHO) got Scola with their 10M bid. The Pacers could have bid 9.8M and lost. We don't know.

But because the Pacers didn't get him, the conventional wisdom is that they didn't even try.....

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

You do realize that the Pacers could have placed a bid on Scola, right? The highest bidder (PHO) got Scola with their 10M bid. The Pacers could have bid 9.8M and lost. We don't know.

But because the Pacers didn't get him, the conventional wisdom is that they didn't even try.....

And once again you are wrong and you think you are right, Phoenix won the Scola bid by bidding 4.5mil or an "Ian Mahinmi", they also didn't even have the chance to bid on him or Brand because they decided to sign Hill and Hibbert.

Even Pritchard explained this on 1070 the fan by saying that they were keeping a close eye on those guys but at the end of the day the Hibbert/Hill signing was hours before so they were not able to even put a bid on any guy that was waived.

So yes the conventional wisdom is that they didn't try because they didn't try.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

And once again you are wrong and you think you are right, Phoenix won the Scola bid by bidding 4.5mil or an "Ian Mahinmi", they also didn't even have the chance to bid on him or Brand because they decided to sign Hill and Hibbert.

The Suns bid ended up costing them almost $14M when everything was said and done. That $4.5M is PER YEAR, not total. It would be nice if you could tell the difference, before you got on your soapbox.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

But the problem is that the guy identifying the grass and the turds changes his mind based on whether the guy plays for the Pacers or not. That's my point.

I look forward to Mayo's next PED suspension. Just how many NBA players have been booted for PEDs, not pot (or Birdman's Meth)? Now I love Carlisle, but dang are these some staggering improvements...

First 4 years FG% - 43.8, 45.8, 40.7, 40.8
This year - 49.0

First 4 years 3P% - 38.4, 38.3, 36.4, 36.4
This year - 53.2

So Mayo shows remarkable consistency for 4 years, like clockwork almost, and suddenly his 3P% is up 15% points over his career average to a whopping 53? And this isn't a guy that was hurt, he only failed to play every game in year 2 and that was due to SUSPENSION.

In every other way Mayo has been dead on his career averages. Only his shooting is up, and way way up.

So in the grass is greener point I'm saying that a guy with some iffy history who NORMALLY shoots 43%/38% doesn't really help a team who already has guys that have put up the same numbers. And jumping on the 14 games of drastically improved output paired with joining a different coach with a history of making teams and players better doesn't really sell me on the idea that had Mayo been here we wouldn't be just as frustrated with 4-11 nights for 13 points.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

But the problem is that the guy identifying the grass and the turds changes his mind based on whether the guy plays for the Pacers or not. That's my point.

You have no point and nope I'm not changing my mind.

I look forward to Mayo's next PED suspension. Just how many NBA players have been booted for PEDs, not pot (or Birdman's Meth)? Now I love Carlisle, but dang are these some staggering improvements...

First 4 years FG% - 43.8, 45.8, 40.7, 40.8
This year - 49.0

First 4 years 3P% - 38.4, 38.3, 36.4, 36.4
This year - 53.2

So Mayo shows remarkable consistency for 4 years, like clockwork almost, and suddenly his 3P% is up 15% points over his career average to a whopping 53? And this isn't a guy that was hurt, he failed to play in year 2 and that was due to SUSPENSION.

In every other way Mayo has been dead on his career averages. Only his shooting is up, and way way up.

So in the grass is greener point I'm saying that a guy with some iffy history who NORMALLY shoots 43%/38% doesn't really help a team who already has guys that have put up the same numbers. And jumping on the 14 games of drastically improved output paired with joining a different coach with a history of making teams and players better doesn't really sell me on the idea that had Mayo been here we wouldn't be just as frustrated with 4-11 nights for 13 points.

I'm not even sure if you are serious and if you are, you seriously need to stop using what you are using.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

I'm a little confused how PEDs could make your 3 point percentage go up. LOL

Increase in eyesight for starters, if it has the effect that some say it has. But PEDs are used mostly for increased body function. Not being as tired in the fourth, so not leaving your shot short would help as well.

Not saying that it's the reason, but just saying that there are advantages for any athletic movement that can be helped by PEDs.

PG was shooting 60% from three last year for quite some time. Often players start out shooting well, and then slowly working their way back to their average.

Re: Why The Pacers Missed on Mayo and How They Can Fix It.

Because he doesn't belong on the bench. He is a starter and better than any back court player we have. When he plays as a starter he is consistent. Nobody we have is consistent except for maybe West.

Yet if he came here he would be coming off the bench if Danny was healthy. If a player feels that they should be starting, but not willing to put in the effort to prove it I don't want them on my team. If he has to be guaranteed a spot and no competition for it we are better off without him. Look at what happened the last time we had players with that kind of attitude. I would rather have Lance who is working his *** off to become a better player.