Lord Soley of Hammersmith

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Issues

Ben Laurie asked me to list the dangers of a DNA data base. The only two I can think of is a reversal of the position on insurance that would allow discrimination against people vulnerable to certain illnesses and the danger of police planting your DNA at the scene of a crime.

The latter seems fairly remote because you would have to get the rest of the evidence lined up as well. You also have to set that danger against the real benefit of preventing wrongful convictions and the DNA test has already showed its advantages in many such cases.

DNA. Any state system of collecting information is always a balance between the usefulness of the information to the individual (see above) and to society and those aspects have to be set against any dangers to overall freedom. As I have already said collection of DNA seems to me to be fairly easily justified. The advantages are ...

This question raised the issue of a national DNA data base. The question of consent is particularly important and it is difficult to defend a position where adolescents who have not been formerly cautioned or charged should be kept on the database without their consent.

bear in mind that many democracies around the world, which enjoy the rule of law, have identity cards. It is not crippling to the population; they are popular; and the idea is fairly popular here. I understand that saying the system will be costly undermines public confidence in the argument in favour of identity cards. As a party politician, it would be wrong of me to dismiss that as being without relevance. However, it seems to me that if the issue is about costs, I am not sure that the amendments address that at all.

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It is true to say that if the expense of an ID card comes in very high and if it stays high, a great deal of political damage will be done to the government who introduce it. You only need think of the analogy of putting up the cost of the television licence. Think of putting up the cost of an ID card. Think of the initial cost of the ID card or, as my honourable friend the Minister indicates with the movement of his hands, a driving licence. There is a range of issues and arguments around this, but they are not being addressed today.

You opt out of the NHS system as is your proper right but don't blame me if in an emergency you don't get the right treatment quickly enough because they have to ask permission to get your record when your unconscious!

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News

Summary: I put down the following question after growing concern about attacks on state infrastructure and now even on legislatures - although I am not sure which ones yet. I have been wondering about an international treaty or agreement to outlaw these attacks. Some states are launching such attacks - again it is difficult to prove which ones and clearly the government is not going to publish a list! Some attacks probably come from individuals and organisations but the attacks by nation statescould be largely outlawed by an international agreement - a little like the treaty outlawing biological weapons.

Summary: Ben Laurie asked me to list the dangers of a DNA data base. The only two I can think of is a reversal of the position on insurance that would allow discrimination against people vulnerable to certain illnesses and the danger of police planting your DNA at the scene of a crime. The latter seems fairly remote because you would have to get the rest of the evidence lined up as well. You also have to set that danger against the real benefit of preventing wrongful convictions and the DNA test has already showed its advantages in many such cases.

Summary: You opt out of the NHS system as is your proper right but don't blame me if in an emergency you don't get the right treatment quickly enough because they have to ask permission to get your record when your unconscious! DNA. Any state system of collecting information is always a balance between the usefulness of the information to the individual and to society and those aspects have to be set against any dangers to overall freedom. As I have already said collection of DNA seems to me to be fairly easily justified. The advantages are ...

Summary: Lord Soley, the former Labour party chairman, has a simple suggestion for those who object to the police storing the DNA of suspects who have been cleared of committing any crime. Why not join them? "I am not quite clear why people are so opposed to this," he said, advocating a "voluntary database". "It actually works as a very effective deterrent to people who are thinking of committing violent offences, including rape, because they know that they will be caught if they do so." A database of people who have thought about committing a violent crime? What a brainwave!

Summary: Everybody should be encouraged to provide DNA samples for the police national database, the government was urged by Lord Soley, the ex-chairman of the parliamentary Labour party. He said: "It actually works as a very effective deterrent to people who are thinking of committing violent offences, including rape, because they know that they will be caught if they do so." Lord Soley added: "I am not quite clear why people are so opposed to this." Baroness Scotland of Asthal, the junior Home Office minister, told Lord Soley: "You make a very powerful point." The database had been successful in clearing people as well as identifying them, she said. "So it can both act as a shield but also as a sword."

Summary: The full extent of the murders in Sussex were just becoming clear. I think it emphasis's my point that a DNA data base would be very useful and could be an effective deterrent as well as helping to clear victim of wrongful convictions.

Summary: Former "Old Labour" MP, now Lord Clive Soley of Hammersmith, has called, via his blog, for a public debate on his idea that everyone should be registered on the National DNA Database, a suggestion which he has made in a speech in the House of Lords. ... This is an evil idea, which we hope to persuade him against, once he has been alerted to the privacy and security issues and cost / benefits. At least by being one of the rare British politicians who runs a weblog which accepts comments from the public, he might be amenable to a reasoned argument.

Summary: This question raised the issue of a national DNA data base. The question of consent is particularly important and it is difficult to defend a position where adolescents who have not been formerly cautioned or charged should be kept on the database without their consent.

Summary: bear in mind that many democracies around the world, which enjoy the rule of law, have identity cards. It is not crippling to the population; they are popular; and the idea is fairly popular here. I understand that saying the system will be costly undermines public confidence in the argument in favour of identity cards. As a party politician, it would be wrong of me to dismiss that as being without relevance. ... It is true to say that if the expense of an ID card comes in very high and if it stays high, a great deal of political damage will be done to the government who introduce it. You only need think of the analogy of putting up the cost of the television licence. Think of putting up the cost of an ID card. Think of the initial cost of the ID card or, as my honourable friend the Minister indicates with the movement of his hands, a driving licence. There is a range of issues and arguments around this, but they are not being addressed today.

Summary: The Government legislation does not make it compulsory to carry ID cards. The legislation would require a debate and vote in Parliament if the information carried on the card was to be increased.