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Topic: Texas Pizza Summit 2 (Read 20175 times)

I have had time to recover (and it took 3 days), so here is my take on the weekend. Obviously the pizza was outstanding, but the draw for me was talking to the people. I got to spend time talking with Antoine and Bill about ovens, Norma about her relentless pursuit of perfection of style, Omid about life, and pizzamaking with everyone. The focus was pizza, but the fun was sharing a common interest. There were no agendas or goals, we were all there to make and eat pizzas. We ate, we drank (maybe a little too much for me), we pushed out dough into round shapes and baked them, and celebrated our shared addiction.

Hopefully we all learned a little about each other and the pursuit of pizza, and thank you for not using a black magic marker on me Sunday morning Gene.

Omid, you can see some of the differences here between the Ferrara M130 used at Bruno and the Acunto Mario Classico 5 that Craig has in the links below.

While the height/depth of the floor and foundation are almost the same on both ovens (13.7795" Acunto & 13.50" Ferrara), the oven door is significantly wider on the Ferrara oven, by just over three inches.

It should be noted that Stefano Ferrara ovens are now different than the ones employed at many places (Bruno, Paulie Gee's Brooklyn, Nomad, etc.). The exterior shape and shelves for dinner plates are much different in the newer models (I prefer the look of the newer models). I am not sure if they have made the floor and foundation on the newer Ferrara ovens deeper than the older models like those employed at Bruno. However, it does appear that the same number of tile rows run from the base of the foundation to the iron door of the oven in both newer and older models. So the height/depth of the foundation and cooking floor appears to be the same.

Finally, if you look at page three of the Acunto user guide I linked to above, there is a shot of the dome which looks just like the photo of the dome in the refractory chamber of Craig's oven, as taken by Norma in picture 015.JPG in Reply #9 of this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26074.msg263023.html#msg263023). The gaps between the bricks where the mortar is are mostly uniform in size and the bricks are closely fitted together. For the most part, there appears to be some offsetting of the brick rows so that lines of mortar do not run in a straight(ish) line through too many rings/levels of bricks.

The mortar appears to have significantly seeped through the bricks in places, particularly near the dome and in the first ring of horizontally placed bricks that start on top of the vertical ring of bricks (the vertical bricks touch the cooking floor). It is difficult to tell if the fitting of the bricks is even and closely aligned, but obscured by the heavier amount of mortar....or if there are various sized cuts of bricks in some places that are not tightly fit together and mortar has been relied on to hold the oven together in those areas. I'm guessing it is the former and not the latter.

Probably not a big deal and I cannot wait to receive my Ferrara ovens, but at 2:47 at night the mind wanders at times. --K

Omid, you can see some of the differences here between the Ferrara M130 used at Bruno and the Acunto Mario Classico 5 that Craig has in the links below.

While the height/depth of the floor and foundation are almost the same on both ovens (13.7795" Acunto & 13.50" Ferrara), the oven door is significantly wider on the Ferrara oven, by just over three inches.

The way I understood Omid's comment about the floor height is that the SF floor is not actually as thick as it would appear in the spec sheet. He commented that if you look up from underneath, you will see that the floor thickness is actually several inches less than it would appear from the front elevation, stopping well before the bottom of the base. This is in contrast to the Acunto where the floor extends all the way to the bottom of the base. This would of course be an observation based on the oven at Bruno and may be different than the newer ovens as you noted. Omid can correct me if I'm wrong.

I did not realize the new Acunto ovens are adjustable in height. Mine is not.

Finally, if you look at page three of the Acunto user guide I linked to above, there is a shot of the dome which looks just like the photo of the dome in the refractory chamber of Craig's oven, as taken by Norma in picture 015.JPG in Reply #9 of this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26074.msg263023.html#msg263023). The gaps between the bricks where the mortar is are mostly uniform in size and the bricks are closely fitted together. For the most part, there appears to be some offsetting of the brick rows so that lines of mortar do not run in a straight(ish) line through too many rings/levels of bricks.

The mortar appears to have significantly seeped through the bricks in places, particularly near the dome and in the first ring of horizontally placed bricks that start on top of the vertical ring of bricks (the vertical bricks touch the cooking floor). It is difficult to tell if the fitting of the bricks is even and closely aligned, but obscured by the heavier amount of mortar....or if there are various sized cuts of bricks in some places that are not tightly fit together and mortar has been relied on to hold the oven together in those areas. I'm guessing it is the former and not the latter.

Probably not a big deal and I cannot wait to receive my Ferrara ovens, but at 2:47 at night the mind wanders at times. --K

When I first received the oven, my dome looked very similar to the picture of the Motorino dome with respect to the patches of mortar flush up against the ceiling. After firing it for a few months, some small pieces started falling off, so I brushed it lightly a few times to reveal the dome as you see it now in Norma's picture.

Craig, your pies look awesome! Your dough looks immaculate. Love your oven. If they sold those in Japan(or to JP residents), I would've bought one long ago!!

The only bright side for me is I have friends coming this Saturday from Tokyo and Osaka, including their families. I finally get to fire up the oven and make some pies. Until then, I'll just re-read and drool over the pics in this thread!!

The over-grouting is just an artifact of the method of construction, i.e. they set the bricks on falsework then pour a very liquid refractory grout to fill the gaps. As Craig says, it is a very thin amount of material and can be removed if wanted.

Myself and others members had a nice chat with Omid later Saturday evening. Omid's knowledge is amazing. I had to laugh about the siren singing women. I think Michelle, Bill and I all got a good laugh out of that. It is about Greek mythology and goes something like this if I recall right. The term "siren song" refers to an appeal that is hard to resist but that, if heeded, will lead to a bad conclusion. From the songs of the sirens in Greek mythology, whose bewitching song lured mariners to their doom. Maybe Omid can explain that better than I can if he wants to.

Norma

Dear Norma, I'd be glad to . . . The story of Sirens and Odysseus (or "Ulysses" in Italian) is a significant part of the history of Naples. Naples has two distinct histories that are sometimes not easy to distinguish from one another: (1) Neapolitan history according to the myths and (2) Neapolitan history according to historians. In Homer's epic poem "The Odyssey" (which is about the adventures of Odysseus on his voyage to home after the fall of Troy), he did not describe and name the Sirens. Many later authors identified them as beautiful, winged women who possessed seductive singing voices. Homer mentioned only two Sirens, but most later writers spoke of three. They lived on an island called Anthemöessa, near the Gulf of Naples. Although the name is no longer in usage, varying accounts ascribe Anthemöessa to either the island of Ischia (where the Ischia sourdough culture is from) or Capri in the Gulf of Naples. (See the first picture below.) Basically, when sailors sailed near the island, the Sirens' song would allure them, causing them to steer toward the rocks and sink upon impact with them.

As claimed by the legends, history of Naples begins when Parthenope (one of the Sirens) was drowned and washed ashore on the Bay of Naples. When Parthenope’s singing voice could not allure Odysseus (because he had himself tied to the mast and the ears of his men plugged with wax), she became distraught and threw herself into the sea. (See the 2nd picture hereunder.) Her corpse was washed up to the islet of Megaride (the site of Castel dell’Ovo in Naples), on the Bay of Naples, where the early Greek colonists discovered her corpse and arranged for a solemn burial on Pizzofalcone hill. (See the last three picture below.) Good day!

Dear Norma, I'd be glad to . . . The story of Sirens and Odysseus (or "Ulysses" in Italian) is a significant part of the history of Naples. Naples has two distinct histories that are sometimes not easy to distinguish from one another: (1) Neapolitan history according to the myths and (2) Neapolitan history according to historians. In Homer's epic poem "The Odyssey" (which is about the adventures of Odysseus on his voyage to home after the fall of Troy), he did not describe and name the Sirens. Many later authors identified them as beautiful, winged women who possessed seductive singing voices. Homer mentioned only two Sirens, but most later writers spoke of three. They lived on an island called Anthemöessa, near the Gulf of Naples. Although the name is no longer in usage, varying accounts ascribe Anthemöessa to either the island of Ischia (where the Ischia sourdough culture is from) or Capri in the Gulf of Naples. (See the first picture below.) Basically, when sailors sailed near the island, the Sirens' song would allure them, causing them to steer toward the rocks and sink upon impact with them.

As claimed by the legends, history of Naples begins when Parthenope (one of the Sirens) was drowned and washed ashore on the Bay of Naples. When Parthenope’s singing voice could not allure Odysseus (because he had himself tied to the mast and the ears of his men plugged with wax), she became distraught and threw herself into the sea. (See the 2nd picture hereunder.) Her corpse was washed up to the islet of Megaride (the site of Castel dell’Ovo in Naples), on the Bay of Naples, where the early Greek colonists discovered her corpse and arranged for a solemn burial on Pizzofalcone hill. (See the last three picture below.) Good day!

Omid

Omid,

Thank you so much for telling me about the story of Siren and Odysseus. I recall you told Michelle, Bill and me that sometimes myths and history are hard to separate in understanding everything. Thanks also for explaining Homer's epic poem “The Odyssey”. I find all that you posted very interesting. I never even knew where the Island of Ischia was before you posted that photo.

Omid, you can see some of the differences here between the Ferrara M130 used at Bruno and the Acunto Mario Classico 5 that Craig has in the links below.

While the height/depth of the floor and foundation are almost the same on both ovens (13.7795" Acunto & 13.50" Ferrara), the oven door is significantly wider on the Ferrara oven, by just over three inches.

It should be noted that Stefano Ferrara ovens are now different than the ones employed at many places (Bruno, Paulie Gee's Brooklyn, Nomad, etc.). The exterior shape and shelves for dinner plates are much different in the newer models (I prefer the look of the newer models). I am not sure if they have made the floor and foundation on the newer Ferrara ovens deeper than the older models like those employed at Bruno. However, it does appear that the same number of tile rows run from the base of the foundation to the iron door of the oven in both newer and older models. So the height/depth of the foundation and cooking floor appears to be the same.

Finally, if you look at page three of the Acunto user guide I linked to above, there is a shot of the dome which looks just like the photo of the dome in the refractory chamber of Craig's oven, as taken by Norma in picture 015.JPG in Reply #9 of this thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26074.msg263023.html#msg263023). The gaps between the bricks where the mortar is are mostly uniform in size and the bricks are closely fitted together. For the most part, there appears to be some offsetting of the brick rows so that lines of mortar do not run in a straight(ish) line through too many rings/levels of bricks.

The mortar appears to have significantly seeped through the bricks in places, particularly near the dome and in the first ring of horizontally placed bricks that start on top of the vertical ring of bricks (the vertical bricks touch the cooking floor). It is difficult to tell if the fitting of the bricks is even and closely aligned, but obscured by the heavier amount of mortar....or if there are various sized cuts of bricks in some places that are not tightly fit together and mortar has been relied on to hold the oven together in those areas. I'm guessing it is the former and not the latter.

Probably not a big deal and I cannot wait to receive my Ferrara ovens, but at 2:47 at night the mind wanders at times. --K

Dear Pizzablogger, I thank you for the links.

You wrote, "I cannot wait to receive my Ferrara ovens. . . ." At the Summit, I heard the news about your new undertaking. Congratulations! You are going to be a busy man soon. Good day!

The way I understood Omid's comment about the floor height is that the SF floor is not actually as thick as it would appear in the spec sheet. He commented that if you look up from underneath, you will see that the floor thickness is actually several inches less than it would appear from the front elevation, stopping well before the bottom of the base. This is in contrast to the Acunto where the floor extends all the way to the bottom of the base. This would of course be an observation based on the oven at Bruno and may be different than the newer ovens as you noted. Omid can correct me if I'm wrong.

Dear Craig, you correctly understood me in reference to my assertion, "In contrast to the Ferrara at Bruno, Craig's Acunto appears to have a thicker floor and foundation (put together as one whole), at least by 2 to 3 inches." Yesterday, I measured the thickness of the floor and foundation (considered together as one whole) of the Ferrara oven at Pizzeria Bruno. The thickness of the oven floor and its foundation, together, measured exactly 10 inches, from the surface of the oven floor to the bottom of the foundation. (See the 1st picture below.) Some may wonder why I excluded the metal band, which encircles the bottom of the foundation, from my measurement. It is because the band is not part of the floor foundation, at least thermally speaking. (See the last two pictures.) Craig, could you, please, measure the thickness of your oven floor and its foundation together? I surmise that it is probably about 13 inches, I could be wrong though. I thank Peter, my boss, for letting me take pictures and measurements of his Ferrara. Good day!

First off, sorry I did not make it to the Summit and meet you. After talking with Craig it is my loss as he spoke of you in very high regard. Hopefully, if Craig is generous enough to do it again and providing we're still upright and moving, we can meet next year. My question to you is this. If you were to pick a single spot, city, island, area, where would you advise someone to go to get and enjoy the best of Italy. Interesting, food, REAL culture without the obvious tourist trap, often trashiness that many places have degenerated into. Those photos you posted are nothing short of beautiful!!! I spent 3 years in Europe in the 70's via the Army and never made it to Italy, a regret I still feel.

Wow... what an impressive line up of PMF folks! I can' t believe how much I've learned just by reading this posts, seeing the pictures, and watching the videos! Thanks to all for posting so many wonderful recaps of the event! (I have to say, I"m a bit envious of all those in attendance!) And seeing Chau's instructions on how to make mozz was just what I was looking for. (We're thinking about making our own mozz in the future, and the video is immensely helpful!)

Looks like it was a great event, with great company and great food! I'd love to host something like this in Chicago, but my skills are nowhere near Craig's yet... and I'd likely be doing a lot more learning than teaching.

Anyone interested in a Chicago get together, perhaps in Nov after things slow down at the French markets for us?

First off, sorry I did not make it to the Summit and meet you. After talking with Craig it is my loss as he spoke of you in very high regard. Hopefully, if Craig is generous enough to do it again and providing we're still upright and moving, we can meet next year. My question to you is this. If you were to pick a single spot, city, island, area, where would you advise someone to go to get and enjoy the best of Italy. Interesting, food, REAL culture without the obvious tourist trap, often trashiness that many places have degenerated into. Those photos you posted are nothing short of beautiful!!! I spent 3 years in Europe in the 70's via the Army and never made it to Italy, a regret I still feel.

stay well

jon

Dear Jon, I am sure there will be future opportunities whereby we can meet and enjoy one another. Don't forget the homemade Capicola as promised!

Where in Italy would I advise someone to go to in order to enjoy the best of the land? I guess, all of Italy!—but that depends on what truly interests one. I generally think that those who have appreciation for Italian art, culture, and history would find almost any part of the land worth exploring. Each of the regions that constitute the modern-day Italy has its own distinct and perennial history, in additions to time-honored customs and traditions that render each region unique. One thing that I enjoy about Italy is its cultural heterogeneity, that Italians are not anthropologically a homogenous population. You can drive 100 miles toward north from Naples just to find yourself in a place that has different foods, architecture, customs, and traditions. Indeed, Italy is a colorful land. So far, I have been only to Venice, Milan, Florence, Rome, Naples, and Bari, each of which offered me sui generis experience. I love all of them. For me, the best of Italy can not be confined to just a specific territory in the land; it is the totality that brings out the best. Have a great day!

Today was the first day back from summer vacay! I kept my kids and myself away from the computer and phone ( mostly ) for 10 whole days! But I'm sorry that I missed all the postings on TPS II.

First I probably won't be the first to tell you that Craig is one of the most gracious hosts you will ever encounter. I showed up early on Friday ( way before any festivities began) so that I could watch him make some dough for Sunday. There was about two seconds of awkwardness when there was only myself, Gene and Java standing around... but it was like we were instant "friends". And it truly was "Me casa es su casa". Craig is a special guy... way beyond his pizza making skills and way beyond what I can put into words on this forum ( although I'm guessing most of you can gather that from his posts). The pizzas have been described on this thread way better than I can but I will tell you all this...Those were the best pizzas I've ever had consistently one after another. The "shroom" pizza is still haunting my dreams...Unbelievable.

But a very close second to all the pizza I got to enjoy was the company... It was a very diverse group and I enjoyed talking to everyone... Gene kept us all in stitches the whole weekend and Diana ( dhorst) is the kindest and nicest person you will ever meet ( and I'm not just sucking up to her for her chile connections )

Antoine is as nice as he appears on these threads as well... and much younger than you may think too!!!!

I also loved talking to Chau my fellow New Mexico brethren. The mozzarella was unbelievable and he looked very comfortable cooking those pies in the Acunto.

Peter and Omid are also as genuine as you would think. They are the kind of guys that will engage in a conversation and actually listen to what you are saying... and I guess I don't have to mention that both are extremely intelligent. I learned a great deal about both of them as we pulled KP duty on Saturday night

If you're ever looking for Scot (pizza dr), he's the one with flourbelly. Seriously though, he really worked the oven well.

Which brings me to my story... So Craig was kind enough to let everyone have a shot at making some pizzas throughout the night. Once everyone was completely full... and I mean FULL, I started cooking some blanks with just a little tomato sauce. I probably had baked up 7 or so pizzas just to get the feel of his oven. Well that flour belly pic Craig shot of me was REALLY early in the evening. By the time I got done baking and doing some dishes I looked like the Pillsbury Dough boy on Crack cocaine! Diana was kind enough to give me a ride back to my hotel and as I got out of her car I heard a "click". The hotel attendant had apparently locked the sliding glass doors leading into the lobby. I knocked on the glass and all I got was her wagging her finger "NO" . So I was looking for my room key which I misplaced somehow and she informed me that she was going to call the authorities if I didn't go away! She thought I was homeless I guess . So I finally pulled out my AMEX card and held that to the window and told her to check the name. She reluctantly did and finally let me in. I have told that story to countless friends over the last week and I"m still laughing....

Nice write up Scot. It was a pleasure meeting everyone but especially you and Bill. I think I could sit around and Bs with you guys and some of the others for hours. Too much fun. Scott showed the most improvement working Craigs oven Saturday night. Scot you need to get one of these NP ovens soon. Let me know and we will have a NM summit!