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Originally posted by Zadawnyeah yeah a sandbox with a cash shop,i don't think that anybody needs that.

That's the major worry with a sandbox, I am uncomfortable enough with EvE's plex system for paying for others gametime in return for their in game credits which seems to be the best of a bad job.

certainly any cashshop can go bad, but if you look at GW2 model i think there is alot of hope and alot people can learn from that implementation. That being said you have to wait and see how it will turn out. Im certain they already know that a pay2win cashshop will not win over the fans so i believe they wont take the chance with EQN and well get a GW2 style cashshop and a box/expansion purchase. I could be wrong though, and if i am i simply wont support the game. Your certainly entitled to skepticicm but that fact that there is a cashshop is not a sign of the apocolypse.

Originally posted by VorthanionI'm curious, I thought Archeage was going to be the new AAA sandbox home?

This isn't highlander mate, there can be more than one.

Well, considering many of the responses about this announcement, they act as if this is the only AAA sandbox even coming down the pike. That's why I question sandboxers who always act like they are never represented in the genre.

There's Archeage as well as the new and improving Darkfall and the potential of Citadel of Sorcery and now EverQuest Next, all of which are claiming to be sandbox games.

So, three unreleased games and one Indy effort of which the previous version was filled will bugs and cheats (hopefully the new version will be better). I guess we should be grateful.

Well, hate to break it to ya, but you are a niche within the genre, no matter how much your group believes otherwise.

It's a developer imposed niche, not a player chosen one.

Bad games and a game that's literally a niche within a niche (EVE) is not representative of what "players want". It's everything to do with following the trend of success set by someone else.

It is NORMAL business practice to try and capitalize on the success of someone else. Developers have been chasing Blizzard sinse '04, and it has NOTHING to do with sandboxers being a niche within the genre, and EVERYTHING to do with business as usual.

Two PC games were responcible for half of all PC sales in a single month, Skyrim and MW3. Sandbox RPG's are hugely popular, and people that play MMO's are more than likely also playing single player RPGs.

When the king of the hill is Nsync, than you what you get is a music industry that is all about boy bands, when it's Eminem, it's a music industry with a focus on hip hop, when it's Fallout Boy it's a music industry focues on studio rock bands.

When the kind of the hill is a themepark, than every other developer will do what the king did, make a themepark. If WoW had been a sandbox EVERY mmy made sinse '04 would also have been a sandbox and we'd be having a completely different conversation today.

Well, considering the MMO genre started with a sandbox in the form of Ultima Online, I'd say you don't have much of a footing to stand on. Sandboxes just aren't nearly as popular, period and developers that are more interested in the bottom line are going to go where the real money is. Some companies may be willing to settle for niche, especially if they already have other games in their portfolio to cover the casuals and console gamers and other groups of gamers. The original point though is that there have been and there are upcoming sandbox games that more than represent your niche, but many act as if they aren't being represented at all or represented enough and I say you have been and are going to be more than enough.

Originally posted by VorthanionI'm curious, I thought Archeage was going to be the new AAA sandbox home?

This isn't highlander mate, there can be more than one.

Well, considering many of the responses about this announcement, they act as if this is the only AAA sandbox even coming down the pike. That's why I question sandboxers who always act like they are never represented in the genre.

There's Archeage as well as the new and improving Darkfall and the potential of Citadel of Sorcery and now EverQuest Next, all of which are claiming to be sandbox games.

So, three unreleased games and one Indy effort of which the previous version was filled will bugs and cheats (hopefully the new version will be better). I guess we should be grateful.

Well, hate to break it to ya, but you are a niche within the genre, no matter how much your group believes otherwise.

It's a developer imposed niche, not a player chosen one.

Bad games and a game that's literally a niche within a niche (EVE) is not representative of what "players want". It's everything to do with following the trend of success set by someone else.

It is NORMAL business practice to try and capitalize on the success of someone else. Developers have been chasing Blizzard sinse '04, and it has NOTHING to do with sandboxers being a niche within the genre, and EVERYTHING to do with business as usual.

Two PC games were responcible for half of all PC sales in a single month, Skyrim and MW3. Sandbox RPG's are hugely popular, and people that play MMO's are more than likely also playing single player RPGs.

When the king of the hill is Nsync, than you what you get is a music industry that is all about boy bands, when it's Eminem, it's a music industry with a focus on hip hop, when it's Fallout Boy it's a music industry focues on studio rock bands.

When the kind of the hill is a themepark, than every other developer will do what the king did, make a themepark. If WoW had been a sandbox EVERY mmy made sinse '04 would also have been a sandbox and we'd be having a completely different conversation today.

Well, considering the MMO genre started with a sandbox in the form of Ultima Online, I'd say you don't have much of a footing to stand on. Sandboxes just aren't nearly as popular, period and developers that are more interested in the bottom line are going to go where the real money is. Some companies may be willing to settle for niche, especially if they already have other games in their portfolio to cover the casuals and console gamers and other groups of gamers. The original point though is that there have been and there are upcoming sandbox games that more than represent your niche, but many act as if they aren't being represented at all or represented enough and I say you have been and are going to be more than enough.

well in a couple of years it appears that you wont have to guess anymore.

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They had the funds to develop Planetside 2's engine from scratch (and it is an AMAZING engine).

Looking at the Planetside 2 footage and lighting and animations, it's a a decent engine I think, I just think "amazing" is a bit too far. It's no cryengine.

PS2 is a TRUE MMOFPS... There's a lot more stuff going on than your typical MMORPG. You simply cannot judge the EQN based on a different type of game using the same engine. Looking back at PS1 it took a beast of a machine to run perfectly when it came out and it's graphics weren't that amazing, but ti's not the graphics they needed all that power, it was everything going on in the game.

Look at Aion, it uses the cryengine yet it still doesn't look like Crysis... when the game is on a bigger scale, things are scaled back. I guess what I'm trying to say is, Forgelight (SOE's new engine) is just an engine... What they do graphically in EQN doesn't completely depend on it and I'm sure it will look great. Just wait and see how beautiful the game will be with realtime weather effects that don't look like crap and amazing night and day cycles. Like I said... it's just an engine... graphics are a different issue.

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Originally posted by rungard

Originally posted by Waterlily(mod edit)

the fact that you can still play vanguard to this day tells me that much of the hype might actually be his "evil" status. What kind of evil bastard would bail out his former partners sinking ship? hmm. Im not saying there there werent problems and bad decisions in the last 14 years, but im not buying the satan argument. Its a business, nothing more.

I take it that you were not a Vanguard player from day 1. If you were you would know that Vanguard was bought not to do a former partner a favor and bail him out, but it was done to PREVENT Vanguard from taking even more players from EQ2. It was a business decision, but it wasn't done out of the goodness of their corporate hearts. It was done to prevent VG from become a problem for them, period. It's only still open because they can still make some profit from it and that's it.

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Originally posted by Latronus

Originally posted by rungard

Originally posted by Waterlily(mod edit)

the fact that you can still play vanguard to this day tells me that much of the hype might actually be his "evil" status. What kind of evil bastard would bail out his former partners sinking ship? hmm. Im not saying there there werent problems and bad decisions in the last 14 years, but im not buying the satan argument. Its a business, nothing more.

I take it that you were not a Vanguard player from day 1. If you were you would know that Vanguard was bought not to do a former partner a favor and bail him out, but it was done to PREVENT Vanguard from taking even more players from EQ2. It was a business decision, but it wasn't done out of the goodness of their corporate hearts. It was done to prevent VG from become a problem for them, period. It's only still open because they can still make some profit from it and that's it.

honestly i have a hard time believing that. it doesnt even make sense.

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Originally posted by FearumSo when this one fails, what excuse will sandbox fans blame it on?

They have an air tight alibi.

SOE.

/wink

Damn, people can't even wait for real information about a game comes out before they trash it. It's not always a proven disappointment like when their girlfriends see them naked for the first time. Even some developers manage to get a good game out on occasion.

The truth is that SOE wants to attract their core EQ audience back. Those intruduced to mmo's since Wow who can't handle exploration without hand holding can simply play the game they want since there are plenty of choices out there. The greatest threat to the game will be how their payment model is implemented anyway especially in a sandbox-style mmo.

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I'm an ex-SWG player I was far from happy about the NGE just like evryone else was, but I'm long caring if it was Lucas, Smeadly, or even Jar-Jar Binks fault, I've long moved on its water under the bridge in my mind, I'm giving Smeadly & SOE a break and the benefit of the doubt over EQ-Next since he's playing all the right ovetures I like.

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Originally posted by Zadawnyeah yeah a sandbox with a cash shop,i don't think that anybody needs that.

That's the major worry with a sandbox, I am uncomfortable enough with EvE's plex system for paying for others gametime in return for their in game credits which seems to be the best of a bad job.

certainly any cashshop can go bad, but if you look at GW2 model i think there is alot of hope and alot people can learn from that implementation. That being said you have to wait and see how it will turn out. Im certain they already know that a pay2win cashshop will not win over the fans so i believe they wont take the chance with EQN and well get a GW2 style cashshop and a box/expansion purchase. I could be wrong though, and if i am i simply wont support the game. Your certainly entitled to skepticicm but that fact that there is a cashshop is not a sign of the apocolypse.

If common sense and logic ruled, you might have a point.

But I'll explain how this works. Let me give you a fictional conversation between "High Mucky Muck" and "Dev Boss".

High Mucky Muck: "We need more profits this quarter."

Dev Boss: "We're doing some new content."

High Mucky Muck: "You said that last time."

Dev Boss: "We could do more ads."

High Mucky Muck: "Not in the budget."

Dev Boss: "Then I don't know..."

High Mucky Muck: "How about adding thing they absolutely need in the Cash Shop?"

Dev Boss: "We didn't want to go there."

High Mucky Muck: "We need more profits this quarter."

You see, it's not always about how well you're doing. People don't get promotions for doing the same, they get promoted for always doing better.

No game with a cash shop will ever stay "fluff only". They will always, at some point (and likely sooner than later), feel the "need" to add more incentive to CS purchases. Always.

2 minutes on google gave me these, if I could be bothered I am sure i could find many more

Oh come on, a dead thread, a dead poster (who was only here for a month, more than a year ago). and a USER DELETED poster? This is the THEY you spoke of?

Poisoning the well.

Look: If you want THEY to apply to any group at all, just search the internet for one random idjit saying something silly, and identify random idjit with some group of people you don't much like. We get it. It's easy, and anyone can do it.

Sandbox is a fairly murkily defined expression; you know it's never been hard to find dozens of games its been mis-attributed to, at some point...or dozens of people who will argue what is/is not a sandbox, endlessly.

But sometimes when you have to reach this far, you may as well just not bother.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

“I have to be honest with you. We have completely blown up the design of EverQuest Next. For the last year and a half we have been working on something we are not ready to show. Why did we blow up the design? The design was evolutionary. It was EverQuest III. It was something that was slightly better that what had come before it. IT was slightly better. What we are building is something that we will be very proud to call EverQuest. It will be the largest sandbox style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you’ve never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn’t want more Kill 10 Rats quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’r delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.

What I will commit to is, at the next Fan Faire, not only will you get to see it but you will get to touch it. Most of the EQNext devs are in this room. If you get them drunk enough they might tell you. They’re led by Dave Georgeson. Terry Michaels. Vets from EQ and EQ2. We are remaking Norrath unlike anything you’ve ever seen, but you’ll recognize it. I’m sorry we don’t have anything to show for it, but I wanted to be honest with you and tell you a little bit about it. Keep the faith.”

based on that quote I believe many of you sandbox fans are going to be greatly disapointed.

He seem to be using the term "SANDBOX" as a marketing term, like many online games are starting to use "MMO" term to sell more copies, even though it may not be a MMO.

same thing happening here. Calling a Game a "SANDBOX" to score more sells.

Notice in this post, they also called Everquest a Sandbox... that should show you already, they have come up with their own definition of what a Sandbox really is to them and their new EQ3.

Clever Marketing and use of words to hype people up. I expose this kind of thing, so it doesnt just slip right past me.

I know most of you dont want to hear it, or even face reality. Hype is what you live off of.

So take their word on this if you please. But just make sure you remember, that you were forewarned

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Did you know "sandbox games" were originally just called "GTA Clones"?

Maybe that's what Smed wants to make...some cars, some guns...

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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John $medley said it....

/thread

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo