QFT. I spent almost twice as much on my lens as I did the camera body and wouldn't go back to a cheap lens anyday! I use a D70s with a Nikor 18-200VR lens. The man that pretty much sold me on buying Nikon was Ken Rockwell. I know you said you got a rebel but this site still has a wealth of great information for any photographer.

Don't buy a camera with a kit lens.. you'll probably end up selling the kit lens for less than you bought it for once you see what a quality lens can do.

actually the kit lenses that ship with the dslrs nowadays are quite good. of course you'll have to stop them down for better performance but still pretty good. i don't have much experience with canons but i've been quite happy with the photo quality of the 18-55mm kit lens on my nikon d50.

by the way, beach camera has a great deal on the nikon d70s. refurbished units are $469 right now.

actually the kit lenses that ship with the dslrs nowadays are quite good. of course you'll have to stop them down for better performance but still pretty good. i don't have much experience with canons but i've been quite happy with the photo quality of the 18-55mm kit lens on my nikon d50.

by the way, beach camera has a great deal on the nikon d70s. refurbished units are $469 right now.

I wouldn't call any kit lenses, even the Pentax one, "quite good," but they do make one hell of a learning lens and I highly recommend anyone buying a DSLR for the first time to pick up the kit lens with it.

Don't buy a camera with a kit lens.. you'll probably end up selling the kit lens for less than you bought it for once you see what a quality lens can do.

I believed that, got my 30D body only. Reason being i already have 2 Canon Lenses from my Film SLR that I can use straight away. But then 28mm on a lens is not wide at all on a crop camera so the option is to either spent £500 on a 17-40 L or £30 on a kit lens. I need a lens to cover the focal range and for £30, the kit lens is a bargain.

Yes, its not the sharpest, and its not the fastest in focusing, nor can it go to F/2.8 or have USM or good construction. But it does go from 18-55mm, which is a very useful focal range on a crop camera.

The glass itself however, is not all that bad, you just have to know it's limits.

I used to own the digital Rebel + kit lens and used that happily while learning for 3 years.

Recently, I sold that combo and bought an XTi, body only, and got another rather nice and expensive 17-55mm lens.

I regret not getting the kit lens with the XTi. Why? It's light, it's cheap. It also focuses with a fairly close minimum focusing.

Would I use the kit lens all that much, given I have a far better piece of glass at the same focal length? No. But would I miss the 40 bux or so relative to having a cheap piece of glass I can use whenever I feel like walking around light or for its close focusing? Nope.

Get the kit lens. It's a fine way to learn. Buy a better lens only after you've outgrown it - and believe me, if you are a beginner, it will take you months if not years.

Hi, I'm currently using a Canon Powershot S3 IS. Im very pleased with it, but looking at some of the pictures on the photography threads I'm realizing the fine line between "advanced point and shoot" and DSLR. Does anyone have any good suggestions? From what I was able to gather from other threads around here the Canon and Nikkon are generally good brands. I appreciate your help.

Are you ready to step up to a DSLR? If so IMO the only choice is Nikon or Canon because of the lenses.

I have owned both, upgraded both and currently have a D200. Why Nikon? Well I think it was because I accumulated more Nikon good lenses than I did Canon. That means I got better deals on them.

Right now, I would seriously take a look at the Nikon D50 and get a 50mm f/1.8 lens to go with if you are just buying the body.

Why? It is a really good camera at a good price and Nikon is trying to replace it with the D40 which is not as good or as versitle camera. Check out FatWallet.com for pricing on new ones and Nikonians for pricing on used.

Someone state earlier that the lenses were more than the camera, and they're right. However, a 50mm "standard" non-zoom lens is cheap, fast (f 1.8 or f1.4) and is a great portrait lens. They're also not bad for general photography. Since we've got one, our do-everything zoom has stayed in the bag. Then gain, we've got two small kids, so portraits are everything right now ;-)

Better yet is learning how f-stop, film speed/sensor sensitivity, and shutter speed work together, and how very, very, very important lighting is to getting a decent picture. A good book will teach the basics, and after that it's just remembering to apply what you've learned. The nikon school (check their site) is a pretty impressive 1-day seminar that will get the juices flowing.

You can do decent product photography with a P&S given a light box and some patience. Of course an SLR is easier.

I believed that, got my 30D body only. Reason being i already have 2 Canon Lenses from my Film SLR that I can use straight away. But then 28mm on a lens is not wide at all on a crop camera so the option is to either spent £500 on a 17-40 L or £30 on a kit lens. I need a lens to cover the focal range and for £30, the kit lens is a bargain.

Yes, its not the sharpest, and its not the fastest in focusing, nor can it go to F/2.8 or have USM or good construction. But it does go from 18-55mm, which is a very useful focal range on a crop camera.

The glass itself however, is not all that bad, you just have to know it's limits.

I thought the glass was bad. Poor image quality was why I ended up selling my 18-55mm kit lens. Here's a crop (halfway between center and edge, no scaling) of an image I took with that lens at 18mm f/5.6:
This image shows bad chromatic aberration, poor resolution, and poor contrast.

If you don't plan on doing anything that requires high quality images (making large prints), that lens would be fine. But it just bothered me to have the lens, not the sensor be the limiting factor in image quality.

I thought the glass was bad. Poor image quality was why I ended up selling my 18-55mm kit lens. Here's a crop (halfway between center and edge, no scaling) of an image I took with that lens at 18mm f/5.6:

If you don't plan on doing anything that requires high quality images (making large prints), that lens would be fine. But it just bothered me to have the lens, not the sensor be the limiting factor in image quality.

You have much to high expectations of the kit lens. It's not a "full-crop" lens and shouldn't really be used or regarded as one.