Possibly but I think the Seahawks had one hell of draft despite all criticism from the fans like I said in another post, had the Seahawks draft looked like this, everyone would have probably been in high praise:

Nobody wants to knock our selections after being made fools last year. But it's not all good. It appears no matter what, there will be bias surrounding our Hawks. Whether for or against.

I can't recall the guy that said it, but during the draft, one commentator appeared to not like one of our picks. He started to express his opinion (that I wanted to hear), then changed his mind and basically just said..."they know what they're doing up there in Seattle". The others just sorta' looked at him like "that's it"?

How many remember when ESPN used to go to commercials DURING our pick? Amazing what a can of whup-ass will do for ya'.

Scottemojo wrote:My favorite quote is how the rumor is in the NFL right now, the day after the Hawks work out a guy, 7 teams show up to check him out.

You could argue Harbaugh over Carroll, but anyone that thinks Baalke is on par with Schneider should note how many GMs around the league are fighting for Baalke's sloppy seconds. You look at the incredible work Schneider has done after the 3rd round. Chancellor, Thurmond, Wright, Sherman, Baldwin (UDFA), Johnson (UDFA), Wilson, Turbin, Lane, Scruggs, Sweezy. The best player Baalke drafted after the 2nd round since taking over? Kendall Hunter. Their 3rd string RB.

HawkWow wrote:How many remember when ESPN used to go to commercials DURING our pick? Amazing what a can of whup-ass will do for ya'.

Now that you mention it, ESPN didn't run as many commercial breaks during our picks this year, did they? In fact, they seemed to make it a special point to talk about most of the picks Seattle made.

They should be, with picks like Wilson, Chancellor, Sherman, Sweezy etc. one would hope that they have learned not to bad mouth what this front office is doing. All it does is end up making them look bad when they slam a pick and have to revise their grade from a D to an A mid-season.

I almost wrote an article today basically implying the same thing as the OP. We drafted a 3rd RB with our first pick, a huge reach of a DT on our second, didn't address what people thought was our major need in a LB, and nobody said a word about it.

Scottemojo wrote:My favorite quote is how the rumor is in the NFL right now, the day after the Hawks work out a guy, 7 teams show up to check him out.

You could argue Harbaugh over Carroll, but anyone that thinks Baalke is on par with Schneider should note how many GMs around the league are fighting for Baalke's sloppy seconds. You look at the incredible work Schneider has done after the 3rd round. Chancellor, Thurmond, Wright, Sherman, Baldwin (UDFA), Johnson (UDFA), Wilson, Turbin, Lane, Scruggs, Sweezy. The best player Baalke drafted after the 2nd round since taking over? Kendall Hunter. Their 3rd string RB.

HawkWow wrote:How many remember when ESPN used to go to commercials DURING our pick? Amazing what a can of whup-ass will do for ya'.

Now that you mention it, ESPN didn't run as many commercial breaks during our picks this year, did they? In fact, they seemed to make it a special point to talk about most of the picks Seattle made.

They really did and I could sense their anticipation as we (finally) got closer to our pick. Had we kept our first, I think we would have been featured in some way. They may have even pulled up tape of the flying fish at Pike Market (the way they sometimes like to do).

It's funny Scotte, but I was thinking the same thing. Now, I wasn't able to watch the draft, so I don't know what was said during the draft, but I read up all the draft grades afterwards, and I only saw one pick as a D+, and like Hawkwow mentioned, the guy basically said "they've shown that they know what they're doing, so I'll just go with I don't understand the pick".

Last year I saw people literally giving us D's on our entire draft. Funny what difference a year makes.

Schneider is also maybe the best GM at picking through the chaff of UDFA's. Browner, specifically, makes me laugh. Now you have tons of teams combing the CFL like it's the first time they've ever seen it.

My favorite quote is how the rumor is in the NFL right now, the day after the Hawks work out a guy, 7 teams show up to check him out.

Hard to argue with to a certain extent I suppose but I think the environment that PC and JS have created from an organizational standpoint might have every bit as much to do with how these late picks have performed as anything else.

And don't forget about our player personnel guys and area scouts...they are exceptional. Pete and John get all the credit (understandable), but it's these guys slaving away going to all points geographic searching for talent that fits our system.

Pandion Haliaetus wrote:Possibly but I think the Seahawks had one hell of draft despite all criticism from the fans like I said in another post, had the Seahawks draft looked like this, everyone would have probably been in high praise:

Soo true, I wanted JW in the 2nd after we pick hill in the 3rd i was kinda pissed. Then when we got him in the 5th it all came together for me. Our 5th round sealed the deal in making this a great draft.

My favorite quote is how the rumor is in the NFL right now, the day after the Hawks work out a guy, 7 teams show up to check him out.

I call that the Pete Carroll effect, though it's true to a certain extent of any team that is having great success. You could probably refer to it as the bandwagon effect.

It was very common for high school prospects to jump up in the rankings and get even more offers after Pete/USC offered a kid a scholarship. You see the same thing happening now with Saban/Alabama.

In the NFL it's happening with the Hawks. The biggest difference is that a lot of the time people have no clue why Pete and John like a player. They just assume that the guy must be good if Seattle is looking at him.

Tical21 wrote:I almost wrote an article today basically implying the same thing as the OP. We drafted a 3rd RB with our first pick, a huge reach of a DT on our second, didn't address what people thought was our major need in a LB, and nobody said a word about it.

Last year was a home run of epic proportions, on par with when Jerry Reese had all 8 of his picks play a role in winning the Super Bowl a few years ago. The critics who yap the loudest took a pounding, which I saw referenced in the draft broadcasts more than once. Some of the criticism they gave last year was bordering on vicious; Pete has more than his fair share of enemies in the Eastern media zone and in football circles. And they let him have it in spades last year. Rarely do draft critics look so stupid about picks in such a short time. Their tails are still between their legs. Not to worry, the conventional thinkers in the football media will find something else about Pete to jump on soon enough. Pete Prisco will be talking about defenses figuring out Russell Wilson and run option quarterbacks until we get into the season, for instance.

Also, P&J are getting a bit of a pass for doing such a good job in free agency and trading for Percy Harvin. Add to that that a lot of the picks this year are for depth and role players and it is just kind a boring draft to talk about.

Tical21 wrote:I almost wrote an article today basically implying the same thing as the OP. We drafted a 3rd RB with our first pick, a huge reach of a DT on our second, didn't address what people thought was our major need in a LB, and nobody said a word about it.

Last year was a home run of epic proportions, on par with when Jerry Reese had all 8 of his picks play a role in winning the Super Bowl a few years ago. The critics who yap the loudest took a pounding, which I saw referenced in the draft broadcasts more than once. Some of the criticism they gave last year was bordering on vicious; Pete has more than his fair share of enemies in the Eastern media zone and in football circles. And they let him have it in spades last year. Rarely do draft critics look so stupid about picks in such a short time. Their tails are still between their legs. Not to worry, the conventional thinkers in the football media will find something else about Pete to jump on soon enough. Pete Prisco will be talking about defenses figuring out Russell Wilson and run option quarterbacks until we get into the season, for instance.

Also, P&J are getting a bit of a pass for doing such a good job in free agency and trading for Percy Harvin. Add to that that a lot of the picks this year are for depth and role players and it is just kind a boring draft to talk about.

When the team is stacked, drafts for depth are going to be less exciting. It's just the nature of the beast, unless you go out of your way to pick up big names. But PC and JS haven't seemed too enamored of going after a big name just because of the name, and I for one am glad for that.

I think they are scared. And it is a good thing. Just massaging the top teams egos by grading us the worst, and it was apparent early on that few of the top teams even considered us as worthy of concern as a gnat. They have a right to rank someone as low, I just think it's classless to do so. Jerry Jones fired Rob Ryan because he specifically pointed out that his teams need to walk into the Clink and win. That loss wasn't even close to Rob Ryans fault. Cowgirls offense sucked, an excellent Hawks special teams ran the score up. Don't like any coach named Ryan so I'm not defending his job, it was Jerry's attitude that we were pissants, no matter how tough we were regarded at home, that was interesting. Did we grade out so low in the preseason that JJ disregarded our entire season because experts did?

This draft compares a lot to last years draft. We had a starting QB (in the majority's mind). It was inconceivable that a third round shrimp could compete and beat him out in the preseason.

Now we upgraded our 3rd down back despite having arguably the 2nd best RB in the league.

I give it a C, considering how I saw the talent on the board at each selection. But I fully expect PC and JS to show me why I'm wrong. Probably the guys I wanted are going to be out of the NFL in a few years.

kearly wrote:You could argue Harbaugh over Carroll, but anyone that thinks Baalke is on par with Schneider should note how many GMs around the league are fighting for Baalke's sloppy seconds. You look at the incredible work Schneider has done after the 3rd round. Chancellor, Thurmond, Wright, Sherman, Baldwin (UDFA), Johnson (UDFA), Wilson, Turbin, Lane, Scruggs, Sweezy. The best player Baalke drafted after the 2nd round since taking over? Kendall Hunter. Their 3rd string RB.

I'm with ya 100% on this one. I've been saying it pretty much since Baalke took over, he just doesn't impress me much. He seems like an average GM. Not terrible but he's not great either.

Not only has Schneider been fantastic at drafting but he has been pretty good with FAs too. His biggest gaffes there are Rice and Miller and both contribute quite a bit (especially if the playoffs were any sign to come with Miller). On top of all that, he has set himself up to manage the cap wonderfully and has built a reputation of taking care of his players.

So really, can anyone blame someone for not wanting to go against anything Schneider does? He almost is walking on water right now.

My favorite quote is how the rumor is in the NFL right now, the day after the Hawks work out a guy, 7 teams show up to check him out.

Hard to argue with to a certain extent I suppose but I think the environment that PC and JS have created from an organizational standpoint might have every bit as much to do with how these late picks have performed as anything else.

I've been arguing this point since we drafted Kam Chancellor. He could have been a spectacular failure on a different team, and it wouldn't have been his fault.

There is a reason Pete and John value athleticism over all, they value a player from a college perspective, what would this guy be if he had attended Pete Carroll's USC? A 5 star recruit can be a game changer in the NFL but it all depends on what happens between high school and the pros.

And if they end up not getting the coaching they need to make it to the next level, P & J will draft them, redshirt them for a year (Toomer) and turn them in to All-Pros (Sherman).

You can't teach athleticism and while it helps to have the college experience at a big school, it isn't necessary if you have the coaching capable of teaching them how to play at the next level. Clay Mathews and Brian Cushing have a lot to be thankful for because if they hadn't learned under Pete and Norton, they might not be making Pro-Bowls and Big Bucks.

I wish they would get rid of Dukes, Heath Evans, That guy with the big ass ears, Marshall Faulk, the ugly chick, and NFL Redzone guy on NFLN. I'm sure I'm leaving someone out, but all those people make the NFLN almost unwatchable... Oh yeah I forgot entire staff on NFLAM except the chick and Eric Davis.

On topic, who cares what the "experts" think. If they were that great at their jobs they would be professional scouts. There is a reason they are posting on a website or BSing on tv.

McG wrote:I wish they would get rid of Dukes, Heath Evans, That guy with the big ass ears, Marshall Faulk, the ugly chick, and NFL Redzone guy on NFLN. I'm sure I'm leaving someone out, but all those people make the NFLN almost unwatchable... Oh yeah I forgot entire staff on NFLAM except the chick and Eric Davis.

On topic, who cares what the "experts" think. If they were that great at their jobs they would be professional scouts. There is a reason they are posting on a website or BSing on tv.

Ultimately, the grades are worth diddly squat, except to get ticket buying fans jacked up. The very fact that they would hold back on analysis because of the team that took the player shows what they knew to begin with. Or how much faith they actually have in what they thought they knew.

However, part of me resents being pandered to. For years, every pick Bill Belichick has made on defense has been glossed over because he is Bill, defensive genius. Well, the Patriots D has been kinda sorry for a while now. But the pandering to anything Bill has not stopped. I kinda like being told what I don't want to hear, as long as I think honesty was the objective.

Also, along with what somebody posted earlier, are they genius picks for Pete and John, or is Pete selecting good athletes and then just coaching them very well? Is it the pick that is good, or is it the system that is making the players? We haven't had enough of Pete's players go elsewhere and fail/succeed to know that for sure.

amill87 wrote:I'm with ya 100% on this one. I've been saying it pretty much since Baalke took over, he just doesn't impress me much. He seems like an average GM. Not terrible but he's not great either.

In your opinion what GM other than Schneider has done a better job putting a roster together and working contracts over the past 3-4 years than Baalke?

amill87 wrote:I'm with ya 100% on this one. I've been saying it pretty much since Baalke took over, he just doesn't impress me much. He seems like an average GM. Not terrible but he's not great either.

In your opinion what GM other than Schneider has done a better job putting a roster together and working contracts over the past 3-4 years than Baalke?

No offense but much of the core was there before Baalke took over. He was part of it but not the ringmaster. I'm not saying he is average either. I'm just sayin.

CALIHAWK1 wrote:No offense but much of the core was there before Baalke took over. He was part of it but not the ringmaster. I'm not saying he is average either. I'm just sayin.

And what does that have to do with the roster moves, trades, and signings he's made since being GM?

He hasn't made any of real importance, that's the point. Not anything bad but not anything that makes you say "wow". He hasn't taken 5th rounders and made them AllPro or a 3rd rounder and come up with a virtual lock elite quarterback or hundred others like that.

Last edited by MizzouHawkGal on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I looked it up for you, anyways. The 49ers have exactly one player drafted after the second round that has earned a Pro Bowl or All Pro (1st team) spot from their 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts. Navorro Bowman. In fact, none of their 2nd-round picks during that time have earned either one, too.

I'm not calling Balke a bad or even average GM, from what I can tell I think he's good; but show me another GM that has drafted so many starters that have performed on a top unit at a high level. Schneider, at this point, is making a name for himself as standing alone atop the NFL drafting pyramid. This 4th draft class of his will help show whether that's warranted, or not; but as many have pointed out, we were lambasted pretty badly for last year's draft; and look how that turned out, lol. Even ignoring Wilson, it was a very successful draft for us. Wagner and Wilson both should have gotten defensive/offensive rookie of the year. Kuechly was behind Wagner in virtually all categories except tackles, and Wagner got his on an elite defense, he didn't have the benefit of picking up the slack of mediocre players around him like Kuechly did.

Dunno, is the logout button down for you? Dude, you come in pounding your chest, you can't just weasel out with the 'google it yourself' line.

No, I'm still here, I'm just incognito. I'm not comparing Schneider and Baalke. I asked who, other than Schneider in your fan base's eyes, has done a better job at GM over the past few years. I brought it up because Baalke has been exceptional, yet some of you seem to think he's a middle of the road GM. You guys are the ones pounding your chests.

I asked a legitimate question that didn't have anything to do with the Seahawks at all and you guys got all defensive.

Last edited by Disp on Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Even though he wasn't named GM until 2011, he in essence ran the draft in 2010 as the VP of player personnel.

While I think his day 3 drafting acumen pretty much sucks, he's been equally successful to Schneider in day 1 and two. He's also shown to be a more shrewd trader/negotiator than Schneider has been. Baalke has been the best in the business at 'winning' his trades in terms of trade value. He gets more for picks he gives up and he gives less to move up. Seattle tends to give away draft pick value in general but doesn't suffer for it because those throw away picks to other GMs John can turn to gold.

I like Schneider's ability to get good players late better than Baalke. I like Baalke's ability to put the screws on his trading partners and wring extra value. I also very much like his ability to parlay today's draft value into better value the following year. I wish we were better at getting day 2 selections in the following year rather than 5th/6th round picks in the current year.

Baalke has just shown to be better at getting more out of his deals. And he doesn't seem to lack for willing trade partners. John (and I'd have to naturally put Pete in with this), develops players better.

Seattle could learn several tricks from our rivals down south. They are set up to roll picks over year to year and perpetually keep 4-5 picks in the top 3 rounds. I could only imagine what Seattle could do by adding future 2nd/3rd round picks while adding 5th/6th round picks in the current year. Seattle's roster is such, that we really should be looking to lock in a perpetual churn of picks. After a two year cycle, you could indefinitely keep a first, second and third round pick in a current year, while adding 2-4 early day 3 picks.

It's a draft version of 'Win Forever'. You are always flush with a couple extra day 1/2 picks you can trade. Teams generally overpay for those picks. Particularly if the big expense is in next year's draft ledger.

amill87 wrote:I'm with ya 100% on this one. I've been saying it pretty much since Baalke took over, he just doesn't impress me much. He seems like an average GM. Not terrible but he's not great either.

In your opinion what GM other than Schneider has done a better job putting a roster together and working contracts over the past 3-4 years than Baalke?

Two starters from his first draft without McLoughan's draft board set up....hmmmm But the following draft for Baalke was AWESOME!!! He actually had ONE rookie play some snaps.... WAY TO GO BAALKE!!!

Disp wrote:No, I'm still here, I'm just incognito. I'm not comparing Schneider and Baalke. I asked who, other than Schneider in your fan base's eyes, has done a better job at GM over the past few years. I brought it up because Baalke has been exceptional, yet some of you seem to think he's a middle of the road GM. You guys are the ones pounding your chests.

I asked a legitimate question that didn't have anything to do with the Seahawks at all and you guys got all defensive.

So, I give you a legit and true response about Baalke, one you can't possibly deny, and you continue to thump the SeaHawks don't respect my guy drum? Puhleeze. I think you want to feel persecuted. Baalke is a great GM and his best move was hiring Harbaugh. Right? Or is your inferiority complex demanding you feel like all Hawk fans must disrespect your boy?

amill87 wrote:I'm with ya 100% on this one. I've been saying it pretty much since Baalke took over, he just doesn't impress me much. He seems like an average GM. Not terrible but he's not great either.

In your opinion what GM other than Schneider has done a better job putting a roster together and working contracts over the past 3-4 years than Baalke?

amill87 wrote:And BTW, between the 2010 to 2012 draft, the Niners drafted 25 players. 5 of them are starters. That doesn't wow me. It's not bad but it's not great either

I don't think that's a fair argument to use though, as they had so much talent on the team already that it's going to be a situation like the one we're now in, where no draft picks are likely to be starters, and I think that's where Schneider is taking a better direction.

Rather than trade players and picks and accumulate several picks in the top 3 rounds where you'll pick players who may ultimately be good players but not starters for a few years, he traded away our top pick and some others to pick up one of the best players in the league. That's an expensive habit, but it also means not paying 1st round rookie salaries and picking up potential starters of the future at bargain 5th/6th/7th round salaries.

Baalke hit 2011 out of the park with his first 3 picks and picking up Bruce Miller (but not great apart from that) and 2013 looks like he's done a good job too (but it's too early to tell), but 2012 was a pretty bad draft - with the entire class managing to play a part in 6 games between them.

In 3 drafts (before 2013) with the Seahawks Schneider has made 28 picks, and 22 of those players are still with the team (though I expect a few will be cut to make room for some 2013 guys), almost of whom have had significant playing time. In the process has built inarguably one of the strongest rosters across the board in the entire league - to such the extent that he could afford to pick a 3rd RB with his first pick in 2013 and nobody has criticised him for not filling a position of need... because there aren't any.

As it appears, Baalke had his best draft in 2010, followed by 2011 and then 2012. Schneider's best was 2012, and 2011-10 should be tied (2010 brought Earl Thomas and Russell Okung by virtue of two top-15 picks, set up by the previous FO, but 2011 brought Sherman and KJ Wright at absolute bargain prices).

In that regard it looks like one GM is getting better every year and the other getting worse (although I'll concede I thought the 49ers had a very good 2013 draft)