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bkdevil wrote:<snip>
The hurdle to a transfer is not getting a better promise from the seller, it is creating some automated way for the key to transfer upon release so a seller cannot back out, or simply forget, or whatever.

All very good points. Sigh.

For me, this isn't a monetary thing. It's a vote of no confidence. I can stand to lose $30, but I hate supporting devs who don't do right by their community. I was a huge fan of Josh, and am still a huge fan of his vision of Limit Theory as a philosophy. But, that philosophy is not bearing fruit, and while there are a ton of people behind him and I'm happy that he has that kind of support, I can't conscientiously offer the same.

The idea that we're dependent on him directly for facilitating transfers removes my ability to use the concept as a statement, and I'm not particularly happy about that - hence wishing for alternate solutions. Sounds like pure trust and questionable legal enforcement methods aren't going to be particularly effective at providing a solution either. So maybe the answer is that I just don't get to make a statement, and instead shake my fist impotently at the sky.

My full intent would be to purchase the game if and when it is released, anyway. Just seems there are others who feel more strongly that will actually still happen at this point than I do (and might be willing to pay for the privilege of continuing that hope.) So I guess I just hang on to my pledged keys and hope that happens. Not too happy about that being the only choice, but as they say, I made my bed.

For me, this isn't a monetary thing. It's a vote of no confidence. I can stand to lose $30, but I hate supporting devs who don't do right by their community. I was a huge fan of Josh, and am still a huge fan of his vision of Limit Theory as a philosophy. But, that philosophy is not bearing fruit, and while there are a ton of people behind him and I'm happy that he has that kind of support, I can't conscientiously offer the same.

I understand this completely. I am a backer myself, and while I don't plan on attempting to sell my pledge, I fully get the frustration of simply not being able to do anything, even if it's a symbolic something.

Have you backed more than one project in Kickstarter? Maybe you could go down the road of switching the registered email address on your Kickstarter account and then "selling" the new associated email address.

bkdevil wrote:
Have you backed more than one project in Kickstarter? Maybe you could go down the road of switching the registered email address on your Kickstarter account and then "selling" the new associated email address.

Quite a few, though nothing in at least two years or so. Learned how unlikely they were to deliver on their promises and stopped throwing money down the sink. I love supporting devs, but there's proof in the pudding as to why many independent development studios don't end up succeeding. I guess I learned I'm not a hipster who needs to be on the cutting edge of everything; rather, I prefer to wait for a nice, polished, final product. My mistakes, and my lesson which needed to be learned - absolutely.

Since you're back, I'm hoping you will address this issue which has plagued many of us while unable to reach you over the last six months to two years.

I'd like a refund. I know many others would. You have made repeated promises and failed to meet them. I get that you are trying to fix that, and I do hope to see LT completed someday. Should that occur, I will happily buy it.
But, at this point we are so far out of scope and so much faith had been lost that I genuinely need to ask you to provide a refund.

You're probably not legally obligated. Honestly, my faith that you are genuine in your efforts to complete this project would be significantly bolstered if you were willing to grant a refund, as that would demonstrate that regardless of my investment you intend to make this happen.

I can't speak for others, but I encourage any who would like a refund to post here, and request that no other topics except refund requests be posted here. To that end, I request mod assistance.

Josh, any info you need and how we should contact you for any refunds being offered would be great info for you to share.

I am in general not able to provide a refund on the basis that, while I could grant a refund to any given individual, were a significant percentage of the LT backers to request a refund, I would not be able to fulfill them without jeopardizing the project. Please understand that the resources obtained during the KS have been allocated, as one might expect, to making Limit Theory happen. Finances have been carefully divided among software licenses, 3rd party contractors (e.g. Francois for the creation of the LT soundtrack, Mitchell and Josh (the other Josh) for the creation of the LT sound effect library), legal fees, reward fulfillment, and (least of all) my own living expenses.

With the current financial situation, I can continue development of LT, fulfill the aforementioned obligations, and fulfill the backer rewards. This would not be the case if a substantial portion of the backers were to be refunded -- to fulfill those refunds I would have to deplete funds that are allocated for reward fulfillment, remaining license fees, etc., leaving me high-and-dry come release time (remember, I have no income, so I have to be very prudent with the funding).

That being said, I am willing to consider, on a limited, case-by-case basis, pledge 'trades,' wherein a backer who desires a refund will 'sell' their pledge to a non-backer who wants in. This is a nice compromise, since you're able to effectively get a refund, and someone else who wants to pick up a pledge but missed the KS is afforded the opportunity to do so.

If you desire a refund, the best I can do at the moment is ask that you post information about which tier you pledged at, and say that I will accept a trade for your pledge if any non-backer would like to purchase it. Once you post your tier, I will accept PMs from members who would like to purchase it (on a first-come-first-serve basis), and will notify you privately of how we can proceed. I cannot, of course, guarantee that a member will step forward to purchase your pledge.

Time permitting, I may attempt to set up a more general framework for this process, such as a 'pledge seller' list of some sort, but I would ask backers to please consider that the logistic demand of this process is very high, as, at the moment, I have to manually keep track of changes made to the KS backer list, which makes Kickstarter's built-in management tools effectively useless. Again, I will consider this only on a case-by-case basis, and reserve the right to stop consideration at any time if it becomes apparent that the logistic demand on my time is too high.

I hope this provides a satisfactory compromise for you.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford

I have previously posted my pledge info in another such thread related to this topic for the purposes described, to which no official response was made. I will copy that info here when I'm off mobile to get this started.

Josh. I really do hope everything works out in the end. As a last caution... Please don't confuse a lot of communication one day as equivalent to intermittent communication over time. The last thing any of us wants is to see you burn out.

I know I've been loudly disapproving, but I wouldn't be here still if a part of me didn't still hold on to that initial vision you shared. Keep your promises, and there is no outcry however loud which will prevent anyone from reaching greatness on the back of a quality product.

Josh. I really do hope everything works out in the end. As a last caution... Please don't confuse a lot of communication one day as equivalent to intermittent communication over time. The last thing any of us wants is to see you burn out.

I know I've been loudly disapproving, but I wouldn't be here still if a part of me didn't still hold on to that initial vision you shared. Keep your promises, and there is no outcry however loud which will prevent anyone from reaching greatness on the back of a quality product.

Thank you Kaeroku.

As a note to all in this thread:

I am officially approving of pledge transfers. It may be a slow and painful process, but I will work with Talvieno in the near future to resolve the pending transfers in this thread.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. If you are able to implement some transfers, then I'm still willing to transfer mine. I posted the below details earlier in this thread and I'll stand by the $5.

Unfortunately I've been burned a few times on Kickstarter projects in the intervening years since I backed LT. As a result I've become awfully jaded of the whole process and find myself getting aggravated from time to time. I'm thinking if I pass the pledge on to a good home then I've no reason to get so emotional and it will be a nice surprise when you drop LT (I do still think it'll come out). I'm probably more suited to buying things at retail!

shanegl wrote:Hi all,

(Very) long time lurker. I'm willing to transfer my pledge to a "good home", for the sake of closure. If anyone can propose a way of doing it?

Below is what I pledged for. I'll take a notional $5 for it.

Selected reward
$30

BLACK FRIDAY BUDDYPACK . Give the gift of infinity this holiday season, and treat your friend to a limitless expanse of open space to explore! Includes TWO digital, DRM-free copies of Limit Theory.

*** PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A SPECIAL TIER, AND HIGHER REWARD TIERS DO NOT INCLUDE IT! ***
Estimated delivery: Jan 2014
Your pledge
Dec 10 2012
Collected
$30
Backer number
3,653
5,449 total

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. If you are able to implement some transfers, then I'm still willing to transfer mine. I posted the below details earlier in this thread and I'll stand by the $5.

Unfortunately I've been burned a few times on Kickstarter projects in the intervening years since I backed LT. As a result I've become awfully jaded of the whole process and find myself getting aggravated from time to time. I'm thinking if I pass the pledge on to a good home then I've no reason to get so emotional and it will be a nice surprise when you drop LT (I do still think it'll come out). I'm probably more suited to buying things at retail!

shanegl wrote:Hi all,

(Very) long time lurker. I'm willing to transfer my pledge to a "good home", for the sake of closure. If anyone can propose a way of doing it?

Below is what I pledged for. I'll take a notional $5 for it.

Selected reward
$30

BLACK FRIDAY BUDDYPACK . Give the gift of infinity this holiday season, and treat your friend to a limitless expanse of open space to explore! Includes TWO digital, DRM-free copies of Limit Theory.

*** PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A SPECIAL TIER, AND HIGHER REWARD TIERS DO NOT INCLUDE IT! ***
Estimated delivery: Jan 2014
Your pledge
Dec 10 2012
Collected
$30
Backer number
3,653
5,449 total

I'll take your pledge for $5, just PM me to confirm or whatever you want.

Well then... If 'folks' (American term? Would rather say blokes? Sheilas? lol) Are willing to give up their hard-earned pledges I'd be happy to take something on, can't remember the terms of the pledges but would be happy to be reminded of what's involved? $5 to...? Haha hit me up and I may be happy to accommodate?