landscapecadmonkey wrote:A definite drop in taxi driver standards in Brisbane in the last year

Had more close calls in the last 3mths than past 3 years/

Tonight was the closest. Lane claiming coming down Fagan Rd towards Butterfield Rd Herston, when the taxi fecker tried to overtake me on the left, and then right turn in the space my front wheel was then currently occupying.

Chased said fecker down the rd, screaming obsenties as i went. He got away. Sort of thankful he did.

I used to live on Fagan Rd many moons ago. I can only shake my head at the taxi! Glad you escaped unscathed.

Kenzo wrote:Not really off topic - because this mindset is the problem we face as cyclists... The expectation cyclists will make way for the car because cyclists are slower. I can tell Lukeyboy is simply making his point based on safety - and rightly so. There are times where we as cyclists need to GIVE as well as take.

Pretty much. I absolutly have no problem with cyclists riding slower on streets and roads but there are some intersections and parts of streets/roads out there that can be dangerous on a bike if the rider is dordling along compared to other traffic. There are other intersections similar to this one out there but this particular stretch of road might not be the same as that one in suburb X. Like the one you listed. It just has a bus stop on the left but you can pretty much still continue along in the same lane. The one at Arana Hills has a bus stop which blocks thru traffic on the left forcing people into the middle lane, there are shop entry/exits on the left, shop entry/exits on the right, the entrances on both sides are accessiable from travelling in both directions, traffic turning to enter the shops can block the thru traffic lanes, people often attempt uturns. Going down the hill traffic is usually forced to the left lane and then back again to the right lanes. Drivers often gun it out of the shops into gaps in the traffic and there are some drivers that constantly gun it from as far back as 2 intersections prior so they can get the green light. Riding that bit of road at 11am is completly different to riding it at 3pm. I haven't had many problems when I ride it during the day but at certain times drivers tend to become more aggressive in their driving.

Taxi driver in white Ford Falcon wagon (I won't give the rego). At approx 12:15pm on Bridge Street Sydney. He stopped before the pedestrian crossing for a red light, and then proceeded to accelerate through the red light!!!

Moron in Audi sedan drives past me slowly (I was doing about 40km/h, he was doing about 50km/h - road is a 60km/h zone) and I notice he has his left indicator on to turn into the side street about 20m ahead. So not wanting to get killed I brake so he can turn in front of me (just wanted a chillaxing ride at 5.30am not a road rage confontation) and Audi Moron decides to slow down too. I stop and start trackstanding while trying to wave him through but he wasn't interested;until I started going again that is! Then he stops again and so I quickly pedal through before he changes his mind again and does something else more stupid. Why couldn't he have slowed a bit more in the first place and waited until I had cleared the intersection and then turn? He would of wasted less of his obviously precious time. Too simple.

Ross wrote:Moron in Audi sedan drives past me slowly (I was doing about 40km/h, he was doing about 50km/h - road is a 60km/h zone) and I notice he has his left indicator on to turn into the side street about 20m ahead. So not wanting to get killed I brake so he can turn in front of me (just wanted a chillaxing ride at 5.30am not a road rage confontation) and Audi Moron decides to slow down too. I stop and start trackstanding while trying to wave him through but he wasn't interested;until I started going again that is! Then he stops again and so I quickly pedal through before he changes his mind again and does something else more stupid. Why couldn't he have slowed a bit more in the first place and waited until I had cleared the intersection and then turn? He would of wasted less of his obviously precious time. Too simple.

Calling them a moron is a little harsh in my opinion. He observed the cyclist and didn't left hook you. As far as I'm concerned that is a win! This has happened to me numerous times. My reaction is to wave them through and WAIT until they go, this ensures no confusion and risk but does take a few seconds out of your ride.

Of course braking earlier and staying behind you is the more sensible thing to do, but to be honest it is something VERY few motorists are used to doing. I do that often but of course I know and understand cycling most people don't. If the motorist is paying attention and giving way to cyclists then I'm not going to call somebody a moron simply because they didn't behave in the most efficient manner.

human909 wrote:Of course braking earlier and staying behind you is the more sensible thing to do, but to be honest it is something VERY few motorists are used to doing.

i agree, but it's still incredible. these are the same people who will accelerate towards a red light until they must brake to stop in time for it. they seem to lack the basic skill to control the throttle to manage their speed and use it essentially as a switch, DOWN for go, UP for slow. naturally, they don't recognise it as a deficiency.

human909 wrote:Of course braking earlier and staying behind you is the more sensible thing to do, but to be honest it is something VERY few motorists are used to doing.

i agree, but it's still incredible. these are the same people who will accelerate towards a red light until they must brake to stop in time for it.

True.

jules21 wrote:they seem to lack the basic skill to control the throttle to manage their speed and use it essentially as a switch, DOWN for go, UP for slow. naturally, they don't recognise it as a deficiency.

Hey, if they're doing that they are doing well. As a passenger I've seen some people drive when they are either on the accelerator or on the brake, no coasting at all. Straight from one to the other the entire time. While this is generally the fastest way to travel around a race track it doesn't make sense in the real world.

Did a left turn this morning and there was a young girl parked and dropping off her boyfriend as i got round the corner. I was going to go past her and knowing both the area and the type of vague motorist i had 2 eyes definitely on her head to see if she was going to look either in the inside or outside mirror or even headcheck. Nup. (how did I know that wasn't going to happen??) Anyway, with no right indicator on she pulls immediately out of her spot. I see it about to happen so do the superyank of the century on the brakes and finally she sees me as I'm now level with her door. I must've shook my head and rolled my eyes at her. Window winds down and she yells at me "don't shake your head at me. I didn't see you". I replied kindly and calmly "well, you probably didn't since you didn't even look first" and then thought about explaining that she could've hit me or anyone else and getting hurt and broken is bad blah blah... but I didn't. I left her to it and rode on.

I was probably her bitch of the day in her world but she was off with the fairies as far as i was concerned. Either way - no damage done.

human909 wrote:Of course braking earlier and staying behind you is the more sensible thing to do, but to be honest it is something VERY few motorists are used to doing.

i agree, but it's still incredible. these are the same people who will accelerate towards a red light until they must brake to stop in time for it. they seem to lack the basic skill to control the throttle to manage their speed and use it essentially as a switch, DOWN for go, UP for slow. naturally, they don't recognise it as a deficiency.

What is wit that? I always see this in Narrabeen (NSW) at the lights near the Caltex servo, people will pull into the bus lane, literally gun it for the red light and end up braking so hard they lock up.

Also to the poster above who had the incident with the Audi, I always seem to have that problem too. I'll be riding after a break in traffice, and people on the other side of the road trying to turn right into a street will start to inch out while I am coming by, I dont trust it, so I slow right down, and it just screws them up as now they are half way out on on the road and I am slowly riding and watching what they might do..

If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it well enough.

a) Traffic lights. I was going straight and car next to me left... just pulled left cutting across me when the lights went green. I saw it coming (typical woman not looked, even though I was next to her window) so I hesitated when pulling out b) I had my flashing headlight on in a car park, I was directly behind the car pulling out, my light shining in his back windows, still keeps pulling out.

anonymousmoose wrote:a) Traffic lights. I was going straight and car next to me left... just pulled left cutting across me when the lights went green. I saw it coming (typical woman not looked, even though I was next to her window) so I hesitated when pulling out

Maybe you didn't explain it properly or maybe its because you are new. Just because you are next a car doesn't mean it should give way to you. If there is no bike lane then really you shouldn't be passing or pulling up beside a left turning car as this is illegal. Even if there is a bike lane you really should be wary of passing left of a car with its left blinker on as it is asking for trouble. If the car is stopped at the lights either stop BEHIND the car or IN FRONT of the car. Don't stop next to the car. (Just friendly advice, no insult intended )

That said even if you do all the above things right motorists do a fantastic job of trying to get you regardless. A particular favourite is the motorist passing you at speed then turning left in front of you giving you a great view of the passenger door as you desperately try to avoid it.

anonymousmoose wrote:a) Traffic lights. I was going straight and car next to me left... just pulled left cutting across me when the lights went green. I saw it coming (typical woman not looked, even though I was next to her window) so I hesitated when pulling out

Maybe you didn't explain it properly or maybe its because you are new. Just because you are next a car doesn't mean it should give way to you. If there is no bike lane then really you shouldn't be passing or pulling up beside a left turning car as this is illegal. Even if there is a bike lane you really should be wary of passing left of a car with its left blinker on as it is asking for trouble. If the car is stopped at the lights either stop BEHIND the car or IN FRONT of the car. Don't stop next to the car. (Just friendly advice, no insult intended )

While I agree very much with these recommendations, the 'illegal' claim is not completely correct. It is only illegal to pass on the left of a car that is indicating and actually turning left. Stationary does not equal turning. anonynousmoose may have been stopped at the intersection already anyhow - it is not made clear.

Recommendation to anonymousmoose - always ensure you are clear ahead of any vehicles stopped at the lights, to ensure that you are seen. If the vehicle is indicating left turn, I usually pass on their right hand side and stop ahead of their right fender.

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.

Ross wrote:Moron in Audi sedan drives past me slowly (I was doing about 40km/h, he was doing about 50km/h - road is a 60km/h zone) and I notice he has his left indicator on to turn into the side street about 20m ahead. So not wanting to get killed I brake so he can turn in front of me (just wanted a chillaxing ride at 5.30am not a road rage confontation) and Audi Moron decides to slow down too. I stop and start trackstanding while trying to wave him through but he wasn't interested;until I started going again that is! Then he stops again and so I quickly pedal through before he changes his mind again and does something else more stupid. Why couldn't he have slowed a bit more in the first place and waited until I had cleared the intersection and then turn? He would of wasted less of his obviously precious time. Too simple.

That unfortunately happens even when driving... your in your car, wave someone in, they see you but do nothing. The you move and they move... Morons

I don't know how they do it in Beijing. Been there a few times but wouldn't dare to cycle or drive

Last edited by anonymousmoose on Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

anonymousmoose wrote:a) Traffic lights. I was going straight and car next to me left... just pulled left cutting across me when the lights went green. I saw it coming (typical woman not looked, even though I was next to her window) so I hesitated when pulling out

Maybe you didn't explain it properly or maybe its because you are new. Just because you are next a car doesn't mean it should give way to you. If there is no bike lane then really you shouldn't be passing or pulling up beside a left turning car as this is illegal. Even if there is a bike lane you really should be wary of passing left of a car with its left blinker on as it is asking for trouble. If the car is stopped at the lights either stop BEHIND the car or IN FRONT of the car. Don't stop next to the car. (Just friendly advice, no insult intended )

Thanks for the advice, point taken. Yet in this situation I think I was there first... But I'll keep this in mind for the future too.

il padrone wrote:While I agree very much with these recommendations, the 'illegal' claim is not completely correct. It is only illegal to pass on the left of a car that is indicating and actually turning left. Stationary does not equal turning.

The poster is from WA and the law here is worded differently to QLD. The extract from the Road Traffic Code 2000, s122(4):

The rider of a bicycle shall not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is making, or apparently about to make, a left turn, or is signalling a left turn.

So if the indicator is on, even if the vehicle is stationary, it is illegal to pass on the left.

il padrone wrote:It is only illegal to pass on the left of a car that is indicating and actually turning left. Stationary does not equal turning.

That's what I used to think the Victorian Road Safety Rules (Nov 2009) said, but then while searching the document recently, I found this nasty little surprise near the end of the document:

Victorian Road Safety Rules, Nov. 2009 wrote:Use of present tense for some actionsThe Road Rules may say that a driver "is turning" at an intersection. The use of the present tense is intended to cover both the present and future aspects of the present tense. That is, it refers to a driver who is preparing to make the turn as well as a driver who is in the course of making the turn. The context will make this clear in the rule.

A very unwelcome addition to the document, as it makes some of the road rules very much open to interpretation, since clarity of context can sometimes be a bit subjective . The above might mean that in the following road rule:

141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle(2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal.

the underlined section (I added the underlining, of course) might be interpreted by lawyers to mean that the rule applies even when the vehicle is not actually in the middle of turning, but its driver is only preparing to turn left. That wouldn't be my interpretation, but some people might try to use that interpretation.

141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle(2) The rider of a bicycle must not ride past, or overtake, to the left of a vehicle that is turning left and is giving a left change of direction signal.

the underlined section (I added the underlining, of course) might be interpreted by lawyers to mean that the rule applies even when the vehicle is not actually in the middle of turning, but its driver is only preparing to turn left. That wouldn't be my interpretation, but some people might try to use that interpretation.

i'd suggest that what it is intended to refer to is when a driver is indicating left, but still approaching the intersection and proceeding in a forwards direction (i.e. not turning yet). it is appropriate that the rule extends to this circumstance. what is more of a problem is when the vehicle is stationary, waiting to turn left with its indicator on. in that circumstance, it is safe for a cyclist to undertake - and i certainly do all the time. the clarification you quoted seems to prohibit it.

Kenzo wrote:Not really off topic - because this mindset is the problem we face as cyclists... The expectation cyclists will make way for the car because cyclists are slower. I can tell Lukeyboy is simply making his point based on safety - and rightly so. There are times where we as cyclists need to GIVE as well as take.

Pretty much. I absolutly have no problem with cyclists riding slower on streets and roads but there are some intersections and parts of streets/roads out there that can be dangerous on a bike if the rider is dordling along compared to other traffic. There are other intersections similar to this one out there but this particular stretch of road might not be the same as that one in suburb X. Like the one you listed. It just has a bus stop on the left but you can pretty much still continue along in the same lane. The one at Arana Hills has a bus stop which blocks thru traffic on the left forcing people into the middle lane, there are shop entry/exits on the left, shop entry/exits on the right, the entrances on both sides are accessiable from travelling in both directions, traffic turning to enter the shops can block the thru traffic lanes, people often attempt uturns. Going down the hill traffic is usually forced to the left lane and then back again to the right lanes. Drivers often gun it out of the shops into gaps in the traffic and there are some drivers that constantly gun it from as far back as 2 intersections prior so they can get the green light. Riding that bit of road at 11am is completly different to riding it at 3pm. I haven't had many problems when I ride it during the day but at certain times drivers tend to become more aggressive in their driving.

So what you're saying is that drivers are driving dangerously, so cyclists and other road users should get out of the way?

I would have said the matter should be referred to the cops, politicians, councillors, etc. Rather than telling cyclists to stay off that particular road.

I am a realist and there are some roads that I avoid (typically narrow descents on busy-ish roads) but in built up areas, any road should be fair game for a confident cyclist.