Hello everyone, my name is Camilla and I write from Rome, Italy. I am 24, vegan, and I exercise regularly 5-6 times a week. I love running, but lately I've been focusing more on home HIIT and strength workouts. In a few days I'll be done with Insanity the Asylum vol. 1, and I'll do vol. 2 next. I follow a 70-80% raw vegan diet, meaning that I mainly eat lots of fruit in the first part of the day, then I alternate veggies + carbs (potatoes, rice, etc.) in the second part of the day. I am used to doing fasted cardio/exercise. I am not planning on losing weight (5'2'', 104 lbs), just focusing on keeping my current level of definition. Therefore I am asking you experts: do you think my training and eating regime would benefit from taking some kind of protein powders during the day? If so, which one would you suggest I take? Thank you in advance, have a great day!

I am new to veganism but concentrate on a high protein diet my research is into this is finding most people use a combination of pea and rice as a main stay the two combined make a complete protein. I am just starting to experiment with these so I will have to get back to you on taste. Vega seems to make a good one but expensive. Sunwarrior seems to be very good also. I just ordered from truenutrition.com and have another thread going on blending. Soy is also good. I have been using a lot of tofu, seitan, tempeh. Your muscles are protein (amino acids) so if you want them you have to eat protein.

Ciao Lepiante, no, as of now I haven't lost my hair yet Are you basically saying that protein powders are not necessary to meet my current goals, as long as I make sure that I get enough protein and good fats from nuts? I already eat nuts a few times a week, and put a slice of avocado everyday in my salad.I have been reading that the pea/rice combination is a good one; I am a little sceptical about soy, having read that too much processed soy might cause hormonal imbalances, especially in us women. For this reason I also try to stay away from tofu and co. as much as possible, even though I like their taste. Thank you!

lepiante wrote:You will know you need protein when you start losing your hair

say whaaat

Hi Milla I'm from rome tootofu, tempeh and other soy products can hardly cause you hormonal imbalances, I'm frankly skeptical about high soy protein powder intakes causing hormonal imbalances as well. the research in this direction is pretty poor.

I tried "Natura Nuova Bio Tofu naturale 100% vegetale" from esselunga and it was very bad. I haven't found any good tofu here in Italy.

@yepes: When there is a protein deficiency in the body, protein synthesis halts in the hair follicle(s) and then the hair falls out when protein demands of the hair follicle aren't met by the diet. A person will know they need protein when they are loosing more hair than normal.

The truth is that people require more protein to stimulate protein synthesis because they are deficient in the fat soluble vitamins(Vitamin A/D/K); a lot of people are. The fat soluble vitamins are like hormones and are a lot more potent at stimulating protein synthesis than a high protein diet and are a lot healthier for the body in the long run.

@MillaD: More protein is required when there is a lack of fat soluble vitamins as I mentioned above and when insufficient calories are eaten. Protein is the basically the bricks(mattoni) of the house(your body), so when daily calories aren't fulfilled from either the intake of carbs and fat, the body breaks down muscle(protein/bricks/mattoni) to produce fuel(sugar).

We don't know how much protein you need or if you even need a protein powder. You can do a simple test by doing bodyweight deep squats until you can't do anymore reps. If you gain muscle and don't loose your hair; you don't need anymore protein. If you don't gain muscle and start loosing more hair than normal; you need more protein. Don't let me stop you from experimenting with protein powders because at the beginning of the day, it is your path of life that you have to walk down.

Nuts do contain protein however I mean't that they contain the essential fatty acids(omega 3 & 6's). We need the essential fatty acids for cell membranes, brain health, muscle growth and other physiological functions. Fats are best eaten as the last meal of the day because they make us tired.Here is a good read on an Omega 6: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid#Arachidonic_acid_in_the_body

Too many fats are only a problem if we eat foods which irritate our intestine by poking holes in it, such as gluten sensitivity and for certain individuals, other grains like legumes and rice.

lepiante wrote:@yepes: When there is a protein deficiency in the body, protein synthesis halts in the hair follicle(s) and then the hair falls out when protein demands of the hair follicle aren't met by the diet. A person will know they need protein when they are loosing more hair than normal.

This is completely false, there's no such thing as 'protein deficiency' in human nature. My hair looked at his best when I was eating basically only fruit and my protein intake was close to nothing. There are many populations who live on a diet poor in proteins and show no signs of hair loss. If your statement were true population on a typical western diet wouldn't suffer from hair loss at all, which we all know it's not the case.. Please stop this hair nonsense.

As for the link you provided on soy, those are not 'science' and don't prove anything about soy.

yepes you are very much mistaken, very common in Africa when you see those pictures of skinny kids with big bellies that is caused by protein deficiency. Fluid accumulates in the lowest spot usually the belly because there to week to stand.http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-protein-deficiency.htm

The condition called Kwashiorkor is far from being understood and the scientific literature is very limited. How would you explain the lack of this condition in many people living just on fruit in other parts of the world? I'm very curious to know a possible explanation given the medical world hasn't come up with an answer yet.

[In reply to Camilla:] Yes, protein powder is useful; I also live in Europe (in France, on the mediterranean coast) and I order my vegan protein-powder to be delivered from Canada and the U.S.A.

I resent this fact, but, currently, the best options for protein powder are imported from the U.S. and Canada (i.e., "Vega Sport" is Canadian).

[In reply to OldLunk:] Yes, protein deficiency is very real. I've done humanitarian work and "field research" of various kinds, and I've met people at various stages of life who have endured malnutrition of different kinds. Lack of protein has many different negative effects at different stages of life --including the _in utero_ stage (i.e., pregnant mothers eating insufficient protein prior to the birth of the child).

[In reply to general concerns about soy:] Please remember that soy-beans are not the only beans on this earth. All kinds of beans are great sources of protein: check the label on the back of a can of black beans and you'll see that the ratio of grams of protein to grams of fat is astounding. If you learn how to cook them well, chickpeas are also full of protein, etc. etc.

So if you're worried about getting "too much of a good thing" with over-reliance on soybeans, look at other types of beans as sources of protein.

yepes wrote:This is completely false, there's no such thing as 'protein deficiency' in human nature. My hair looked at his best when I was eating basically only fruit and my protein intake was close to nothing. There are many populations who live on a diet poor in proteins and show no signs of hair loss. If your statement were true population on a typical western diet wouldn't suffer from hair loss at all, which we all know it's not the case.. Please stop this hair nonsense.

As for the link you provided on soy, those are not 'science' and don't prove anything about soy.

Deficiency means a shortage of a nutrient. Technically protein deficiency is possible when other nutrients are missing in the diet; especially on a fruit only diet because most fruits are also deficient in Vitamin A, K, Folic acid and Iron. These nutrients are required by the body in conjunction with other vitamins, minerals and amino acids to produce collagen(protein).

I didn't mean losing hair as baldness. I mean't losing hair as less hair follicules.. less dense hair.

Do you actually believe we got a big brain by eating only fruits and leaves like chimps and skipping on the intake of Omega 6 rich nuts?

What didn't you understand about those videos?

oldlunk wrote:yepes you are very much mistaken, very common in Africa when you see those pictures of skinny kids with big bellies that is caused by protein deficiency. Fluid accumulates in the lowest spot usually the belly because there to week to stand.

Thanks for the lesson professor Lepiante. I didn't know the meaning of the word deficiency. Again, there can't be no protein deficiency as anything in the range of 0-30 gr/day is all what a human body needs. Yes, also zero is perfectly fine. On brain size I'm not going to comment, call me when you've done some serious reading.

It's impossible for a human to have 'less hair follicles' as you state, thinning and baldness don't affect the hair follicles count at all but I'm sure you already know about it. 'Less dense hair' means absolutely nothing as well. Pretty much shows how much you know about hair. I'm not going to insist on this matter.

How convenient to post a video or a photo of a guy like that? There are thousands of ppl who are not underweight, have normal bodies and follow a fruit only diet, but I'm sure you know better just like for the hair subject. Out of curiosity, could you explain me why the guy in the video you posted didn't develop the Kwashiorkor condition?

"0-30 gr/day is all what a human body needs."Yes, also zero is perfectly fine.To survive but not to thrive and definitely not for neurogenesis.zero protein intake? even if daily calories could be fulfilled by a grown adult.. protein is a requirement. 13+ grams of protein per day to survive for a 70kg adult when calorie intake is fulfilled.

"How convenient to post a video or a photo of a guy like that? There are thousands of ppl who are not underweight, have normal bodies and follow a fruit only diet, but I'm sure you know better just like for the hair subject."Science doesn't lie. Show me these fruit only eaters who have normal bodies and avoid eating leafy greens, nuts and don't show signs of mental instability.

"Out of curiosity, could you explain me why the guy in the video you posted didn't develop the Kwashiorkor condition?"Because he obviously isn't a DEVELOPING child who is protein deficient. The fruit eater is getting enough calories and protein to survive and its obvious that he can't get it up to procreate even if he wanted to.

you can google yourself those people, there's plenty of them. I'm not here to do your assignments. you are a bit confused about what the thermogenesis process is.what has his ability to procreate to do with Kwashiorkor condition? have you taken a look at the guy's semen analysis?Kwashiorkor conditiion is present in adults who didn't suffer this condition when children and developed it only in a late stage of life. How can you possibly compare the guy protein intake with children with kwashiorkor protein intake, you don't have these data.