If it means protecting my family from a guy that has already blown up a sporting event, and shot at cops, I'd be willing to invite the cops in and look around without ANY issue.

What about the guy who the cops made strip down naked and handcuffed in the middle of the street? If the cops tell you a terrorist is nearby and you must strip down in the middle of the street are you willing to do that also? What level of terrorism/crime are you willing to give these rights up for? New York City has been attacked several times in the last 20 years. If you vacation in New York are you willing to strip down anytime a cop asks? Just wondering at what point giving up your rights in the name of safety stops.

VFFTSGT

04-24-2013, 04:59 PM

What about the guy who the cops made strip down naked and handcuffed in the middle of the street? If the cops tell you a terrorist is nearby and you must strip down in the middle of the street are you willing to do that also? What level of terrorism/crime are you willing to give these rights up for? New York City has been attacked several times in the last 20 years. If you vacation in New York are you willing to strip down anytime a cop asks? Just wondering at what point giving up your rights in the name of safety stops.

Some people will give up all rights for perceived safety.

It's very similar to giving up all happiness for 20 years just to get a check for the rest of your life.

Someone once said they that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Most Americans could not handle the freedom our founders intended nor do they want it. But then again, only about a third of Americans supported the revolution that lead to the creation of our nation - so even then not a majority wanted freedom.

Measure Man

04-24-2013, 05:07 PM

Some people will give up all rights for perceived safety.

It's very similar to giving up all happiness for 20 years just to get a check for the rest of your life.

I think Maslow's heirarchy would agree that most peoople would do that. Survival and safety are the most basic human needs.

Someone once said they that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
But most Americans could not handle the freedom our founders intended nor do they want it.

JD2780

04-24-2013, 05:29 PM

What about the guy who the cops made strip down naked and handcuffed in the middle of the street? If the cops tell you a terrorist is nearby and you must strip down in the middle of the street are you willing to do that also? What level of terrorism/crime are you willing to give these rights up for? New York City has been attacked several times in the last 20 years. If you vacation in New York are you willing to strip down anytime a cop asks? Just wondering at what point giving up your rights in the name of safety stops.

Nope, because I'm not hiding anything. However, there could be a guy hiding around my house. I love al the keyboard heroes here. Most of the people that talk tough about rights and standing up to cops would fold.

SomeRandomGuy

04-24-2013, 05:39 PM

Nope, because I'm not hiding anything. However, there could be a guy hiding around my house. I love al the keyboard heroes here. Most of the people that talk tough about rights and standing up to cops would fold.

I am not trying to talk tough. One time I was driving through town when I noticed a large amount of police. I immediatly turned left to avoid them which happened to be a dead end alley. As soon as I made that move I was swarmed by three cops cars. They drew their guns on my car and yelled put your hands out of the window so I did. They came up and handcuffed by hands together. Then they ordered me out of the car. The problem was that my car was in drive still and they handcuffed my hands together but I had my seatbelt on. The cops were about to drag me out of the car when I explained this. Finally things calmed down and they asked me what I was doing. I said I was just turning around. There was a robbery in the area and they thought I was the get away driver heading to pick up the robber. It was pretty crazy but there is honestly no way I could have stood up to the cops nor did I ever suggest I would. Above I was trying to make the point that cops get away with way too much in the name of safety. I have to agree with VFF that it sets bad precedent when cops are allowed to do things like raid people's houses and everyone just sits around cheering because it happened to someone else not us. USA! USA! USA!

TJMAC77SP

04-24-2013, 05:54 PM

It's very similar to giving up all happiness for 20 years just to get a check for the rest of your life.

...........Huh ?

ConfusedAirman

04-24-2013, 06:32 PM

Nope, because I'm not hiding anything. However, there could be a guy hiding around my house. I love al the keyboard heroes here. Most of the people that talk tough about rights and standing up to cops would fold.

Unless you are driving an uparmored Mitsubishi with onboard video monitoring system. Then the cops can suck hind teat and stand in awe of your ride.

JD2780

04-24-2013, 07:04 PM

Unless you are driving an uparmored Mitsubishi with onboard video monitoring system. Then the cops can suck hind teat and stand in awe of your ride.

Yea, its easy to be ballsy when you have an inch armor and bullet resistance glass between you and the po po.

Tak

04-24-2013, 07:27 PM

I think Maslow's heirarchy would agree that most peoople would do that. Survival and safety are the most basic human needs.

Maslow was a Pussy!

TSgt"M"

04-24-2013, 07:28 PM

I would gladly let the cops in, but, I'd have a problem of being ordered out of my home.

VFFTSGT

04-24-2013, 07:34 PM

...........Huh ?

Military people...staying just for the check. It seems more people these days stay for a check after 20 than any other reason... everyday they say they cannot wait to retire because they don't like it.

It's a choice of "safety" or "security" over happiness and freedom.

JD2780

04-24-2013, 08:10 PM

Military people...staying just for the check. It seems more people these days stay for a check after 20 than any other reason... everyday they say they cannot wait to retire because they don't like it.

It's a choice of "safety" or "security" over happiness and freedom.

Try paying bills with happiness.

TJMAC77SP

04-24-2013, 08:30 PM

Military people...staying just for the check. It seems more people these days stay for a check after 20 than any other reason... everyday they say they cannot wait to retire because they don't like it.

It's a choice of "safety" or "security" over happiness and freedom.

I guess I was thinking a lot like JD. I can count the number of people I know both civilian and military who are completely satisfied by the job all the time. Although for the most part I was lucky in military career there were "fuck this shit" kinda days. I also wasn't sure where that fit in this argument but ok.

Tak

04-24-2013, 08:31 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/24/liberal-media-ignore-radical-islams-links-to-boston-bombings/
"Today in American we have a media so obsessed with feeling good about themselves, that America can’t have a conversation about the dangers of radical Islam."

"Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has also cited the U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as motivating factors behind last week's blasts that killed three and wounded hundreds more, a U.S. government official said."

VFFTSGT

04-24-2013, 08:38 PM

I guess I was thinking a lot like JD. I can count the number of people I know both civilian and military who are completely satisfied by the job all the time. Although for the most part I was lucky in military career there were "fuck this shit" kinda days. I also wasn't sure where that fit in this argument but ok.

It's about choosing security over freedom.

Bills....paying for things we didn't have money for in the first place. The reason we have an inflated economy on billions in debt and the average American have thousands in debt.

Pullinteeth

04-24-2013, 09:15 PM

It's about choosing security over freedom.

Bills....paying for things we didn't have money for in the first place. The reason we have an inflated economy on billions in debt and the average American have thousands in debt.

Not sure I agree with your assertation. How many people out there choose to be unemployed and homeless? I am sure there are some but the fact is that you have to pay for the things you need too....

JD2780

04-24-2013, 10:16 PM

It's about choosing security over freedom.

Bills....paying for things we didn't have money for in the first place. The reason we have an inflated economy on billions in debt and the average American have thousands in debt.

Or I could afford them before then got hosed by the AF. Income cut in half. Hmm yea. Ok.

garhkal

04-24-2013, 11:24 PM

I've been getting info about the fire fighters in through the FF network.

Which is available to those who are fellow firefighters.. not us general public. Which is why i feel ashamed of our press population that we know all these details about every shooter that crops up, but nothing on these brave souls whos lives perished in that blast.

How would you classify James Holmes and Adam Lanza?

Criminals..

Yeap, not only illegal and unconstitutional searches but bad precedent too.

Already been talking about them on another forum.

Hence my mentioning of "How could anyone in their right mind say that having ARMED police at your door, shouting at you can be considered 'requesting your permission to search the place.."

If it means protecting my family from a guy that has already blown up a sporting event, and shot at cops, I'd be willing to invite the cops in and look around without ANY issue.

And so would i if asked.. BUT the way it seems these cops went around it (via that linked news story) shows they were NOT AKSING.. they were ordering people out at gunpoint and searching period.. No authority. No warrant. No permission.

I would gladly let the cops in, but, I'd have a problem of being ordered out of my home.

So would i. Heck if i was in process of eating, showering, or having nookie i would also tell them to go away, come back!

Now of the things coming to light i would LOVE to know how the govt responds to..

1) If the 2 brothers came in via asylum claims cause of their parents, why were they NOT kicked out when thier parents went BACK to dagickstan?
2) One report said the father worked as an auto shop repairman.. well if that is the case, WHY then were they claiming welfare etc?

VFFTSGT

04-25-2013, 12:12 AM

Seems like Washington can't get it's message straight concerning the bombers in Boston. The FBI says it checked the older bomber out at Russia's request and found nothing. Then we hear the Russians got disgusted with that and then went to the CIA with information about the bomber. Homeland Security says they knew about the bomber all along, but they never gave any information to the FBI. The FBI says it did not know the bomber went to Russia, but the HLS chief says they knew when he left for Russia {They were "pinged") and when he returned Today the Sec of State says the bomber went to Russia to team up with rebels there only to have the FBI and White House back off from that statement

Wasn't the creation of the Department of Homeland Security suppose to bring all these agencies (alphabet soup) together to prevent this type of chaos again?

What the hell is going on in DC? Is the president and his crew in self denial that radical Muslims want to kill us? They seem to be desperately trying to make the bombing in Boston an isolated incident and trying to cover up any connection with radical Muslims? Today we learn that another suspected bomber bought the fireworks at the same place, in New Hampshire, as the Boston bomber did.? It seems as if Obama wants his administration to pretend the radical Muslims are not trying to kill us. His administration is trying desperately to convince Americans that these radical Muslim bombing incidents are all done by isolated, independent, unhappy radical Muslim immigrants to America.

Is it going to take a football sized nuke in some city in America to convince Obama that muslims want to kill us off?

That has happened with every attack so far...It's Ft Hood all over.

tiredretiredE7

04-25-2013, 03:05 AM

How would you classify James Holmes and Adam Lanza?

Live targets.

JD2780

04-25-2013, 03:32 AM

Live targets.

Well done.

Tak

04-25-2013, 03:33 AM

Aka butt kabobs

giggawatt

04-25-2013, 09:53 AM

Heh Heh. Nice.

Banned

04-25-2013, 04:13 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/24/us/bos...html?hpt=hp_t1

"Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has also cited the U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as motivating factors behind last week's blasts that killed three and wounded hundreds more, a U.S. government official said."

But Glen Beck told me we only kill bad guys in Iraq and Afghanistan!

TJMAC77SP

04-25-2013, 05:38 PM

But Glen Beck told me we only kill bad guys in Iraq and Afghanistan!

I thought you didn't like that guy.....why are you listening to him?

I don't like Bill Maher.......I don't listen to him

sandsjames

04-25-2013, 05:43 PM

I thought you didn't like that guy.....why are you listening to him?

I don't like Bill Maher.......I don't listen to him

It's so he can attribute comments Beck makes to every conservative.

Banned

04-25-2013, 09:29 PM

I thought you didn't like that guy.....why are you listening to him?

I don't like Bill Maher.......I don't listen to him

Bill Maher is the shit. Believe it or not I read more Conservative news than I do liberal. I don't see a point in reading shit that I already agree with.

sandsjames

04-25-2013, 09:30 PM

Bill Maher is the shit. Believe it or not I read more Conservative news than I do liberal. I don't see a point in reading shit that I already agree with.

Bill Maher is shit, I agree.

garhkal

04-25-2013, 10:00 PM

Wasn't the creation of the Department of Homeland Security suppose to bring all these agencies (alphabet soup) together to prevent this type of chaos again?.

That it was.. And after 9/11 we were supposed to STOP the shi( of all the agencies not sharing data/info..

Banned

04-27-2013, 05:11 AM

Bill Maher is shit, I agree.

THE shit. King Shit of the turd pile. There's also the added bonus of him being able to get through his rants without advocating mass murder.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 03:02 PM

THE shit. King Shit of the turd pile. There's also the added bonus of him being able to get through his rants without advocating mass murder.

Bill Maher and Michael Moore are a match made in heaven. Then are the liberal versions of Beck and Rush.

What makes Maher so shitty is he actually thinks he's funny. He's so ridiculous that he can't even be taken seriously as a comedian. He's no Jon Stewart, that's for sure.

Banned

04-27-2013, 03:03 PM

Bill Maher and Michael Moore are a match made in heaven. Then are the liberal versions of Beck and Rush.

What makes Maher so shitty is he actually thinks he's funny. He's so ridiculous that he can't even be taken seriously as a comedian. He's no Jon Stewart, that's for sure.

Maher is generally quite hilarious. And the fact that he makes fundies so angry shows he's doing something right.

Now of course you'll ask does Beck make me angry? No, he doesn't. He's simply a businessman who exploits the stupidity and ignorance of the religious right for profit. What angers me is how so many of my countrymen go on his website and spew all kinds of hateful and paranoid garbage.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 03:10 PM

Maher is generally quite hilarious. And the fact that he makes fundies so angry shows he's doing something right.

Now of course you'll ask does Beck make me angry? No, he doesn't. He's simply a businessman who exploits the stupidity and ignorance of the religious right for profit. What angers me is how so many of my countrymen go on his website and spew all kinds of hateful and paranoid garbage.

As Maher does with exploiting the stupidity and ignorance of the tree huggers and nanny staters. What angers me is how so many of my countrymen believe we're better off with "elected officials" (better phrased as "bought" officials) running our lives.

Banned

04-27-2013, 03:12 PM

As Maher does with exploiting the stupidity and ignorance of the tree huggers and nanny staters. What angers me is how so many of my countrymen believe we're better off with "elected officials" (better phrased as "bought" officials) running our lives.

The very fact that you see rational and secular government as a "nanny state" is telling, and why Glen Beck is so incredibly successful.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 05:23 PM

The very fact that you see rational and secular government as a "nanny state" is telling, and why Glen Beck is so incredibly successful.

Yeah, cuz I'm such a big Beck fan.

The very fact that you see the government taking care of everyone as the government of a "free country" is exactly why your media gods are successful.

Banned

04-27-2013, 05:48 PM

Yeah, cuz I'm such a big Beck fan.

The very fact that you see the government taking care of everyone as the government of a "free country" is exactly why your media gods are successful.

Yes, taking care of everyone is so terrible.

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 06:06 PM

Yes, taking care of everyone is so terrible.

It's not one person's responsibility to take care of another person unless it's their child. What you are advocating for is slavery.

I have said it before...come back when you are giving all of your money, belongings, etc to people in need except the bare necessity to survive.

Banned

04-27-2013, 06:19 PM

It's not one person's responsibility to take care of another person unless it's their child. What you are advocating for is slavery.

Its hilarious how conservatives (who usually hate Lincoln and the Civil War) throw around the "slavery" word - clearly without the slightest idea what slavery actually is. No, getting an extra $200 a month so you can feed the kids isn't slavery.

I have said it before...come back when you are giving all of your money, belongings, etc to people in need except the bare necessity to survive.

Nobody is advocating that. You're being hysterical and foolish.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 06:25 PM

Yes, taking care of everyone is so terrible.

Taking care of people is great. Enabling dependency is not.

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 06:30 PM

Its hilarious how conservatives (who usually hate Lincoln and the Civil War) throw around the "slavery" word - clearly without the slightest idea what slavery actually is. No, getting an extra $200 a month so you can feed the kids isn't slavery.

I am not a conservative. And expecting one group of people to work so the government can forcibly take away their money and give to another who is not willing to work is essentially a form of slavery...slavery is not just the act of black people selling other black people to white people and working for essentially nothing.

Nobody is advocating that. You're being hysterical and foolish.

You are a hypocrite; that is what I am advocating.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 06:31 PM

I am not a conservative. And expecting one group of people to work so the government can forcibly take away their money and give to another who is not willing to work is essentially a form of slavery...slavery is not just the act of black people selling other black people to white people and working for essentially nothing.

You are a hypocrite; that is what I am advocating.

That's also what he's advocating, just for everyone but him. Like Obamacare, it's good for everyone except those who advocate it.

Banned

04-27-2013, 06:38 PM

I am not a conservative. And expecting one group of people to work so the government can forcibly take away their money and give to another who is not willing to work is essentially a form of slavery...slavery is not just the act of black people selling other black people to white people and working for essentially nothing.

That concept used to be called a "community" - you know - people looking out for each other?

You are a hypocrite; that is what I am advocating.

And its people like you who will utterly destroy this country and deliberately throw millions of people into poverty.

That's also what he's advocating, just for everyone but him. Like Obamacare, it's good for everyone except those who advocate it.

Actually I already have government healthcare. And so do you. Go back to sleep.

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 06:42 PM

That concept used to be called a "community" - you know - people looking out for each other?

And it was done within the community without the force of lazy government employees (politicians and bureaucrats) telling a group of people how to live and taking away from a working group and giving to another lazy group of people.

And its people like you who will utterly destroy this country and deliberately throw millions of people into poverty.There have been poor people since the beginning of time and will be poor people until the end of time. Poor people don't destroy a countries until the welfare state is created and overwhelms the system - exactly what Cloward and Piven wanted.

And it was done within the community without the force of lazy government employees (politicians and bureaucrats) telling a group of people how to live and taking away from a working group and giving to another lazy group of people.

False. Government has existed for this purpose since Babylon. Has this always worked? Absolutely not - there's a failure story to go with every success story. But to claim that government intervention is something new or untested is just being silly.

here have been poor people since the beginning of time and will be poor people until the end of time. Poor people don't destroy a countries until the welfare state is created and overwhelms the system - exactly what Cloward and Piven wanted.

And this is exactly why progress is slowed by conservatives, because you close your eyes and pretend progress is impossible. Amazingly, you'll even ignore all of human history and all of the great things we've accomplished by working together and insist that another step forward can't be done.

Its a good thing that every generation of American history... including the founding fathers... there were progressives who outwitted the naysayers and moved the country forward.

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 06:57 PM

Its a good thing that every generation of American history... including the founding fathers... there were progressives who outwitted the naysayers and moved the country forward.

Yeah, we are moving forward...

Starting pre-emptative wars that have nothing to do with this country but to only serve our self-interests. Oil

16 Trillion in national debt and growing.

An out of control tax system.

An out of control welfare system.

Furloughing people for political reasons.

Causing flight risks for political reasons.

This list is endless.

Yeah, we are moving forward.

You condemn capitalism, yet this country is not capitalist. It is more socialist. Every aspect of industry and business is regulated by the government. The same government that is in bed with many of the big businesses. The people you want to help you are the ones creating the problem in the name of power and money.

Banned

04-27-2013, 07:02 PM

Of course we have problems. Every generation of Americans has had problems. We used to burn people. Christian extremists used to be allowed to hunt down and unconstitutionally persecute atheists and communists. Corporations used to call in air strikes on uncooperative coal miners. Corporations used to lock up young girls in factories without fire escapes, causing them to burn to death. Religious zealots used to be allowed to persecute people for having sex.

Most of the problems we face today aren't more severe, or even new. In my opinion, the biggest danger today is that conservatives have completely taken over the education system - and are simply ignoring so much of our history and so many victories that we've won in the past against evil.

As for socialism... you don't understand socialism, you have not the slightest clue what a socialist is or what we stand for. Its not your fault - you've been taught to hate and fear all alternatives to our current system.

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 07:07 PM

Most of the problems we face today aren't more severe, or even new. In my opinion, the biggest danger today is that conservatives have completely taken over the education system - and are simply ignoring so much of our history and so many victories that we've won in the past against evil.

Conservatives took over education? HA! Our education system is modeled after a socialist system. Even The Pledge of Allegiance was started by a socialist to instill socialist values in people - conservatives would have a heart attack if they actually learned that.

As for socialism... you are completely ignorant about socialism, you have not the slightest clue what a socialist is or what we stand for. Its not your fault - you've been taught to hate and fear all alternatives to our current system.

Yeah, that's it... /sarcasm

I haven't been "taught" anything; I have dumped most everything I have been "taught." I have studied and researched for myself.

Banned

04-27-2013, 07:16 PM

Conservatives took over education? HA! Our education system is modeled after a socialist system. Even The Pledge of Allegiance was started by a socialist to instill socialist values in people - conservatives would have a heart attack if they actually learned that.

Yeah, that's it... /sarcasm

I haven't been "taught" anything; I have dumped most everything I have been "taught." I have studied and researched for myself.

Yes the original pledge of allegiance (before the christian taliban hijacked it) was written by a socialist. And since you claim you've done your own research, you also know that socialists were responsible for most of the social and economic progress made in the United States through out the first two thirds of the 20th century.

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 07:20 PM

Yes the original pledge of allegiance (before the christian taliban hijacked it) was written by a socialist. And since you claim you've done your own research, you also know that socialists were responsible for most of the social and economic progress made in the United States through out the first two thirds of the 20th century.

Because it says under God now? It still served/serves it's purpose. What's funny is even liberals, generally, have no clue of it's origins.

Or perpetual war and the Military Industrial Complex was...

garhkal

04-27-2013, 08:28 PM

Yes, taking care of everyone is so terrible.

That depends on what you consider taking care of them. If its an occasional hand out to help in times of need, sure. If its taking care of them for life almost, then no.

There have been poor people since the beginning of time and will be poor people until the end of time. Poor people don't destroy a countries until the welfare state is created and overwhelms the system - exactly what Cloward and Piven wanted.

Exactly.. Look to all the countries which have gotten to be welfare states (socialist).. Most are tanking their economies right now.

There have been poor people since the beginning of time and will be poor people until the end of time. Poor people don't destroy a countries until the welfare state is created and overwhelms the system - exactly what Cloward and Piven wanted.

Joe.. How is taking care of someone for a long time Progress??

In my opinion, the biggest danger today is that conservatives have completely taken over the education system - and are simply ignoring so much of our history and so many victories that we've won in the past against evil.

Then you have not looked into the schools these days.. Most seem to be socialist/liberal centers...

VFFTSGT

04-27-2013, 08:30 PM

Then you have not looked into the schools these days.. Most seem to be socialist/liberal centers...

He hasn't. He has just seen a few headlines that show conservatives getting upset over something such as what goes or does not go in textbooks.

Just like most if not all of his arguments, they are based off some headline or talking point.

Banned

04-27-2013, 09:58 PM

He hasn't. He has just seen a few headlines that show conservatives getting upset over something such as what goes or does not go in textbooks.

Just like most if not all of his arguments, they are based off some headline or talking point.

I find it sad and pathetic that education is now considered "liberal" and "socialist".

Conservatives whine and cry about how the evil atheists and communists have taken over the academia... yet in my own schooling experience I have yet to see that. Sure, educated people in general are usually going to be more liberal and less religious - but not to extent that conservatives cry about.

Southern grade schools, on the other hand, are perfect havens to teach children about the "War of Northern Agression". ;)

Banned

04-27-2013, 09:59 PM

Because it says under God now? It still served/serves it's purpose. What's funny is even liberals, generally, have no clue of it's origins.

Or perpetual war and the Military Industrial Complex was...

I would love to hear your explanation of this.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 11:18 PM

That concept used to be called a "community" - you know - people looking out for each other?

And its people like you who will utterly destroy this country and deliberately throw millions of people into poverty.

Actually I already have government healthcare. And so do you. Go back to sleep.

But I work for mine.

sandsjames

04-27-2013, 11:22 PM

I find it sad and pathetic that education is now considered "liberal" and "socialist".

Conservatives whine and cry about how the evil atheists and communists have taken over the academia... yet in my own schooling experience I have yet to see that. Sure, educated people in general are usually going to be more liberal and less religious - but not to extent that conservatives cry about.

Southern grade schools, on the other hand, are perfect havens to teach children about the "War of Northern Agression". ;)

I like that...more liberal and less religious is an educated persons description. Stats?

Banned

04-28-2013, 03:04 AM

But I work for mine.

Yes. And so do I. Are you alleging that someone is receiving government healthcare who doesn't work/pay for it?

I like that...more liberal and less religious is an educated persons description. Stats?

What stats would you like to see? That countries with more education and less religion are 100% richer and better off than countries with less education and more religion?

As for liberalism, it goes without saying that more educated countries are more liberal. You know - like not beheading people for having gay sex, or beating women for reading a book.

VFFTSGT

04-28-2013, 05:36 AM

Yes. And so do I. Are you alleging that someone is receiving government healthcare who doesn't work/pay for it?

What stats would you like to see? That countries with more education and less religion are 100% richer and better off than countries with less education and more religion?

As for liberalism, it goes without saying that more educated countries are more liberal. You know - like not beheading people for having gay sex, or beating women for reading a book.

What countries would that be?

garhkal

04-28-2013, 05:47 AM

Yes. And so do I. Are you alleging that someone is receiving government healthcare who doesn't work/pay for it?

Hows about all the illegals?

sandsjames

04-28-2013, 01:54 PM

Yes. And so do I. Are you alleging that someone is receiving government healthcare who doesn't work/pay for it? Millions of people are doing that, Joe.

What stats would you like to see? That countries with more education and less religion are 100% richer and better off than countries with less education and more religion?[/QUOTE] We are both a rich country and a religious country, as well as relatively educated.

As for liberalism, it goes without saying that more educated countries are more liberal. You know - like not beheading people for having gay sex, or beating women for reading a book.What???? Oh, I see. You're, again, attempting to compare Conservatives in this country to the Taliban. Very impressive.

JD2780

04-28-2013, 02:10 PM

Millions of people are doing that, Joe.

What stats would you like to see? That countries with more education and less religion are 100% richer and better off than countries with less education and more religion? We are both a rich country and a religious country, as well as relatively educated.

What???? Oh, I see. You're, again, attempting to compare Conservatives in this country to the Taliban. Very impressive.[/QUOTE]

It's he usual tactic.

Banned

04-28-2013, 02:54 PM

Millions of people are doing that, Joe.

What stats would you like to see? That countries with more education and less religion are 100% richer and better off than countries with less education and more religion? We are both a rich country and a religious country, as well as relatively educated.

What???? Oh, I see. You're, again, attempting to compare Conservatives in this country to the Taliban. Very impressive.[/QUOTE]

We are both a rich country and a religious country, as well as relatively educated.

What???? Oh, I see. You're, again, attempting to compare Conservatives in this country to the Taliban. Very impressive.

It's he usual tactic.[/QUOTE]

Do either of you go to church regularly? Do either of you pay attention to the vast majority of rules in the bible? If the answer is "no" - that means you are religious, but you're not as religious as an average person in, say, Saudi Arabia.

Yes, America is the most religious developed country in the world - so it should come as no surprise we are one of the worst off developed countries. However, in comparison with the world in general, we are not the most religious country.

sandsjames

04-28-2013, 03:02 PM

Do either of you go to church regularly? Do either of you pay attention to the vast majority of rules in the bible? If the answer is "no" - that means you are religious, but you're not as religious as an average person in, say, Saudi Arabia.

Yes, America is the most religious developed country in the world - so it should come as no surprise we are one of the worst off developed countries. However, in comparison with the world in general, we are not the most religious country.

Yes, worst off of any developed country. In what way is that? It's amazing that we can be so "bad off" yet we still get so many immigrants from so many developed countries coming here. We must be a shithole. That's why Japanese, Europeans, etc, continue to come here, even with our poor healthcare, high unemployment rates, and with us being such a "religious state". We are a shithole for sure.

Banned

04-28-2013, 03:17 PM

Yes, worst off of any developed country. In what way is that? It's amazing that we can be so "bad off" yet we still get so many immigrants from so many developed countries coming here. We must be a shithole. That's why Japanese, Europeans, etc, continue to come here,

Good try on your part - but the vast majority of our immigrants come from poorer countries - you know - the same immigrants you hate and fear.

even with our poor healthcare, high unemployment rates, and with us being such a "religious state". We are a shithole for sure.

I wouldn't call us a shithole - but it is dispiriting to see how quickly we are becoming a shithole, and how conservatives resist any effort to stop that from happening.

sandsjames

04-28-2013, 03:31 PM

I wouldn't call us a shithole - but it is dispiriting to see how quickly we are becoming a shithole, and how conservatives resist any effort to stop that from happening. So what are you doing to fix it? Anything? Take advantage of your constitutional rights and make a difference. Since you are more educated than all of us stupid trailer park right wing religious nuts it should be simple for you to make a difference.

I may not care for PYB's views, but at least he's got the balls to take on the challenge.

Banned

04-28-2013, 04:12 PM

So what are you doing to fix it? Anything? Take advantage of your constitutional rights and make a difference. Since you are more educated than all of us stupid trailer park right wing religious nuts it should be simple for you to make a difference.

In my current job I am directly helping my state and community. I'm doing my part. What have YOU done, besides whining how bad the Air Force and Federal Government are (while continuing to take their money).

I may not care for PYB's views, but at least he's got the balls to take on the challenge.

I find many of PYB's views eccentric (no surprise, him being a libertarian and me a leftist) - but I find it interesting that his opposition to police abuse and government over-reaching its authority alienated him from most the other "conservatives" on MTF. I would think it would be a no brainer that its bad for cops to abuse American citizens, or for the president to assassinate American citizens... but I guess not for the "small government freedom lovers" around here.

BURAWSKI

04-28-2013, 04:13 PM

Anyway I am curious as to how prevent these attacks. Clearly we've pissed off a lot of people from Muslim descent through our foreign policy. Is there any way to fix it? And why do they hate us? The answer the people were spoon fed was they "hate us for our freedom". It doesn't seem that any serious study or thought has been done to stop this. Are we making the threat worse by the increased use of drones in Muslim countries? These are the questions our leaders need to be asking.

Banned

04-28-2013, 04:40 PM

Anyway I am curious as to how prevent these attacks. Clearly we've pissed off a lot of people from Muslin descent through our foreign policy. Is there any way to fix it? And why do they hate us? The answer the people were spoon fed was they "hate us for our freedom". It doesn't seem that any serious study or thought has been done to stop this. Are we making the threat worse by the increased use of drones in Muslim countries? These are the questions are leaders need to be asking.

I agree with all you just said... HOWEVER - the threat is still a microscopic one. You are far more likely to be killed in a car wreck or an idiot neighbor who forgot to clear his weapon before cleaning it, than to be killed by a Jihadist.

In fact, I find it interesting that there was a huge media frenzy over two dudes who killed three people with pressure cooker bombs... meanwhile a fertilizer plant in Texas blows up and incinerates half the town - no big deal. Nothing to worry about, just another day in Capitalism. Nobody goes to jail.

JD2780

04-28-2013, 05:01 PM

In my current job I am directly helping my state and community. I'm doing my part. What have YOU done, besides whining how bad the Air Force and Federal Government are (while continuing to take their money).

I find many of PYB's views eccentric (no surprise, him being a libertarian and me a leftist) - but I find it interesting that his opposition to police abuse and government over-reaching its authority alienated him from most the other "conservatives" on MTF. I would think it would be a no brainer that its bad for cops to abuse American citizens, or for the president to assassinate American citizens... but I guess not for the "small government freedom lovers" around here.

I've served my community for no pay. A volunteer FF.

Tak

04-28-2013, 05:13 PM

Why does cart come before horse and horse come before shit.

garhkal

04-28-2013, 08:58 PM

Do either of you go to church regularly? Do either of you pay attention to the vast majority of rules in the bible? If the answer is "no" - that means you are religious, but you're not as religious as an average person in, say, Saudi Arabia.

A group of people who routinely drive across the bridge into Bahrain to drink to excess and get hookers "Cause alah can't see me".. Right.... They are very religious.

In fact, I find it interesting that there was a huge media frenzy over two dudes who killed three people with pressure cooker bombs... meanwhile a fertilizer plant in Texas blows up and incinerates half the town - no big deal. Nothing to worry about, just another day in Capitalism. Nobody goes to jail.

At the moment no one has gone to jail.. IMO the owners and managers SHOULD definitely get a looking into, especially if the plant WAS operating out of specs.
But i do agree we have had one heck of a media frenzy on the Boston bombings, and know damn near everything about the 3 dead, but unless you are a fire fighter (and therefore have gotten the names of your fellow dead fire fighters) or live down there, we don't even know the names of any of the dead.. let alone anything about them.

Banned

04-28-2013, 09:24 PM

A group of people who routinely drive across the bridge into Bahrain to drink to excess and get hookers "Cause alah can't see me".. Right.... They are very religious.

Very common in Salt Lake City as well... repressed Mormon kids hit college, then turn into hard drinking sluts and sociopaths. That's a staple of all religions - they're repressed with ridiculous rules, then as soon as they are taken off the leash, they're unable to cope with the increased responsibility.

At the moment no one has gone to jail.. IMO the owners and managers SHOULD definitely get a looking into, especially if the plant WAS operating out of specs.
But i do agree we have had one heck of a media frenzy on the Boston bombings, and know damn near everything about the 3 dead, but unless you are a fire fighter (and therefore have gotten the names of your fellow dead fire fighters) or live down there, we don't even know the names of any of the dead.. let alone anything about them.

Very sad, isn't it? These blatant abuses aren't new... but at least Americans used to get upset about them, and demand consequences and change.

sandsjames

04-28-2013, 10:01 PM

Very sad, isn't it? These blatant abuses aren't new... but at least Americans used to get upset about them, and demand consequences and change.

Americans used to get upset about a lot of things while demanding consequences...now we just tell everyone to do what feels good at the moment and not to worry about the consequences.

VFFTSGT

04-28-2013, 10:10 PM

I've served my community for no pay. A volunteer FF.

He wouldn't personal sacrifice to help others. He wants to use everyone else's time and money to "help" others.

Yes. And so do I. Are you alleging that someone is receiving government healthcare who doesn't work/pay for it?

What stats would you like to see? That countries with more education and less religion are 100% richer and better off than countries with less education and more religion?

As for liberalism, it goes without saying that more educated countries are more liberal. You know - like not beheading people for having gay sex, or beating women for reading a book.

What countries would that be?

Still waiting...

Anyway I am curious as to how prevent these attacks. Clearly we've pissed off a lot of people from Muslim descent through our foreign policy. Is there any way to fix it? And why do they hate us? The answer the people were spoon fed was they "hate us for our freedom". It doesn't seem that any serious study or thought has been done to stop this. Are we making the threat worse by the increased use of drones in Muslim countries? These are the questions are leaders need to be asking.

Stop creating organizations (Al Qaeda) to support our self-interests and then abandon them when we are done with them.

Ironic...our government does exactly what Joe claims the private sector does and then claims the government protects us from that.

garhkal

04-28-2013, 11:38 PM

Very common in Salt Lake City as well... repressed Mormon kids hit college, then turn into hard drinking sluts and sociopaths. That's a staple of all religions - they're repressed with ridiculous rules, then as soon as they are taken off the leash, they're unable to cope with the increased responsibility.

Yea.. heck iirc there are a few TV shows about it.. mostly iirc for the Amish community.

Very sad, isn't it? These blatant abuses aren't new... but at least Americans used to get upset about them, and demand consequences and change.

We still do.

Banned

04-29-2013, 12:27 AM

He wouldn't personal sacrifice to help others. He wants to use everyone else's time and money to "help" others.

Yes, I wouldn't "personal sacrifice" to help others. Its as if you're a real life South Park character. "He terk er jerbs!"

Stop creating organizations (Al Qaeda) to support our self-interests and then abandon them when we are done with them.

Ironic...our government does exactly what Joe claims the private sector does and then claims the government protects us from that.

Where did I accuse the private sector of creating Al Qaeda? Considering the typical corporation has no regard for human life, and would create a terrorist organization if they could make money off of it... but I don't remember ever making this accusation.

Where did I accuse the private sector of creating Al Qaeda? Considering the typical corporation has no regard for human life, and would create a terrorist organization if they could make money off of it... but I don't remember ever making this accusation.

I didn't say anything about the private sector creating Al Qaeda. You completely missed the point I made, which I am not surprised by...

Banned

04-29-2013, 10:50 PM

I didn't say anything about the private sector creating Al Qaeda. You completely missed the point I made, which I am not surprised by...

Yes, in your hysterical rants against big gubmint, I'm not surprised I missed the point you were so eloquently attempting to make.

Banned

04-29-2013, 10:51 PM

Paying for it is absolutely horrible.

We pay for it regardless. That's one thing the "small government" crowd does not and will probably never understand.

"The police department made the announcement in a tweet Wednesday morning, saying more details would follow. Police spokeswoman Cheryl Fiandaca confirmed the tweet but referred all other questions to the FBI"

I love 2013.

Tak

05-01-2013, 06:38 PM

"The police department made the announcement in a tweet Wednesday morning, saying more details would follow. Police spokeswoman Cheryl Fiandaca confirmed the tweet but referred all other questions to the FBI"

I love 2013.

Af should not have afis, just tweets.

Imagine the paper savings. I smell an IDEA program suggestion.

garhkal

05-01-2013, 07:21 PM

I wonder if its cause of the high profile of this case the police are allowed to leak info that way?

Tak

05-01-2013, 07:35 PM

I wonder if its cause of the high profile of this case the police are allowed to leak info that way?

Why are you using the word "leak"?

Measure Man

05-01-2013, 10:56 PM

Accessories after the fact...dumb, and won't be pretty for them. Trying to keep their buddy out of trouble...sheesh.

garhkal

05-02-2013, 09:34 PM

Why are you using the word "leak"?

So me that is what it was.. Tweeting info that the police are doing X is imo leaking..

Banned

05-02-2013, 10:11 PM

So me that is what it was.. Tweeting info that the police are doing X is imo leaking..

Everything an organization releases through social media - Facebook, Twitter, etc - was approved for public release. The same with the military. I run the unit Facebook page. I don't just put random bullshit on it... every photo and piece of information I post is approved by the chain of command.

Banned

05-02-2013, 10:22 PM

Twitter is a favored medium by journalists - its very common for law enforcement to tweet breaking news about the case to keep the civilian media informed. It is by definition not "leaked", because it was deliberately approved and released to the public.

Banned

05-02-2013, 10:23 PM

Approved by chain and public affairs?

Yes. It has to get approved by my chain of command in the unit, and the public affairs office.

Banned

05-03-2013, 04:09 AM

Okay, having someone with the same avatar as me is officially confusing as fuck.

Tak

05-16-2013, 07:20 PM

The News report, citing anonymous sources, said that Tsarnaev used a pen to write the message on an interior wall of the boat, where police found him bleeding from gunshot wounds four days after the April 15 bombing.

The note summed up with the idea that "when you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," News reported.

Capt Alfredo

05-17-2013, 12:44 AM

The News report, citing anonymous sources, said that Tsarnaev used a pen to write the message on an interior wall of the boat, where police found him bleeding from gunshot wounds four days after the April 15 bombing.

The note summed up with the idea that "when you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," News reported.

They have this thing called the newspaper you know...they even have websites!

Tak

05-17-2013, 12:52 AM

They have this thing called the newspaper you know...they even have websites!

Don't you have some officer meetings to attend, while complaining about refreshments
In an airconditioned room, while enlisted work in sweat shop conditions.

Capt Alfredo

05-17-2013, 01:24 AM

Don't you have some officer meetings to attend, while complaining about refreshments
In an airconditioned room, while enlisted work in sweat shop conditions.

You've lost touch since you melted into retirement. Sad.

Tak

05-17-2013, 01:56 AM

You've lost touch since you melted into retirement. Sad.

Don't cry for me Argentina.

RobotChicken

05-17-2013, 04:54 AM

You've lost touch since you melted into retirement. Sad.
:banplease Just because he retired with honorable service too HIS COUNTRY doesn't mean he no longer gives an A$$CLOWN about it...like some of you (YOU) trolls out there from channel 4 !!:typing
Got a problem with me?? Call 1-800-CIK-$HIT.....ask for 'bunch' ala chicken alfredo ala hoff...rare!!:nono:lol

Tak

05-17-2013, 05:41 AM

:banplease Just because he retired with honorable service too HIS COUNTRY doesn't mean he no longer gives an A$$CLOWN about it...like some of you (YOU) trolls out there from channel 4 !!:typing
Got a problem with me?? Call 1-800-CIK-$HIT.....ask for 'bunch' ala chicken alfredo ala hoff...rare!!:nono:lol