that one guy wrote:
* But he did complain. Kiritsugu wouldn't complain.

Reading Fate/Zero's summaries or what little of fate/Zero is translated will help in this matter as you will find out what conclusion Kiritsugu himself came to and why he was so broken at the end of fate/Zero.

Putting the blame on others would not lead anywhere..Anyhow I see Kiritsugu getting the same backlash as Archer is getting right now, after the Fate Zero has been completely translated word for word, which will suck, but whatever. Though Archer gained in fans too i suppose so it should even out for Kiritsugu too.

Well, I don't think it really matters all that much what we think in this situation. I personally believe, had he not been hired by the Einzberns, Kiritsugu would have continue to be...well, Kiritsugu. Cold, ruthless, and willing to put aside everything easily. Having a wife and raising a kid obviously changed him, as Fate/Zero has shown us.

that one guy wrote:I blame Ilya/Irisviel for that. And Saber. Stupid female Saber.

Wut?? Blaming Ilya and her mother is quite logical, since they are the ones precious to Kiritsugu, who made him suffer like that. But blaming Saber? Please. Kiritsugu only saw her as a partner (at best) or a tool (at worst). And they only talked twice in the 4th Heaven's Feel.

that one guy wrote:I blame Ilya/Irisviel for that. And Saber. Stupid female Saber.

Wut?? Blaming Ilya and her mother is quite logical, since they are the ones precious to Kiritsugu, who made him suffer like that. But blaming Saber? Please. Kiritsugu only saw her as a partner (at best) or a tool (at worst). And they only talked twice in the 4th Heaven's Feel.

Back to topic.

I say that because he knew from the beginning he wouldn't be able to get along with Saber, but when it turned out to be a female, he just went over the edge with "There's no ****ing way this will work well." To the point where he didn't even talk to her.

that one guy wrote:I say that because he knew from the beginning he wouldn't be able to get along with Saber, but when it turned out to be a female, he just went over the edge with "There's no ****ing way this will work well." To the point where he didn't even talk to her.

That has nothing to do with his downfall... Stop going so random. Kiritsugu becoming emo has nothing to do with his Servant... Saber did almost everything she was told to, mind you. Heck, even Saber described him as "ruthless, emotionless man who fought like a machine. The perfect Magus."

And the fact that Saber is a strong Servant doesn't change; even Kiritsugu acknowledged that.

Oh yeah, no one is denying that. But the way HE acted changed. He probably would have talked to Saber had she been what he pictured her to be. Probably wouldn't have been more than "You protect my wife," but that's still more than he actually said to her. Even in the book Irisviel admits he had an adverse reaction to her being a her. Yes it was kinda random, but it's not entirely plausible that that was another hit to the already shattered glass that was the old Kiritsugu.

that one guy wrote:Oh yeah, no one is denying that. But the way HE acted changed. He probably would have talked to Saber had she been what he pictured her to be. Probably wouldn't have been more than "You protect my wife," but that's still more than he actually said to her. Even in the book Irisviel admits he had an adverse reaction to her being a her. Yes it was kinda random, but it's not entirely plausible that that was another hit to the already shattered glass that was the old Kiritsugu.

The way he acted against a particular person has little or no meaning against his turning emo... Even if Saber were Saver, Kiritsugu would still go emo in the end of the story.

Didn't he actually end up trying to strangle Ilya and shooting Iriesviel? ._. Methinks he was manipulated so much, had his ideal turned against him, and suffered so much more than Shirou did in HF, when he chooses a new way of living.

Didn't he actually end up trying to strangle Ilya and shooting Iriesviel? ._. Methinks he was manipulated so much, had his ideal turned against him, and suffered so much more than Shirou did in HF, when he chooses a new way of living.

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blame Avenger for taking the image of his wife , if not , Kiritsugu get Holy Grail = no Shirou = Saber get Grail too = happy ending for Saber?

"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."

Didn't he actually end up trying to strangle Ilya and shooting Iriesviel? ._. Methinks he was manipulated so much, had his ideal turned against him, and suffered so much more than Shirou did in HF, when he chooses a new way of living.

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blame Avenger for taking the image of his wife , if not , Kiritsugu get Holy Grail = no Shirou = Saber get Grail too = happy ending for Saber?

I DENY THAT ENDING!!!
no shirou means no shirou+rin its time paradox~~~

Didn't he actually end up trying to strangle Ilya and shooting Iriesviel? ._. Methinks he was manipulated so much, had his ideal turned against him, and suffered so much more than Shirou did in HF, when he chooses a new way of living.

► Show Spoiler

blame Avenger for taking the image of his wife , if not , Kiritsugu get Holy Grail = no Shirou = Saber get Grail too = happy ending for Saber?

I DENY THAT ENDING!!!
no shirou means no shirou+rin its time paradox~~~

Actually,

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it would mean Shirou would never of been adopted by Kiritsugu, and quite possably he wouldn't of know that he was a magic user, and to top it all off Shirou wouldn't of known that he was the bone of his sword either. So therefore there would be no GARcher so that's where the time paradox begins.

- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

blame Avenger for taking the image of his wife , if not , Kiritsugu get Holy Grail = no Shirou = Saber get Grail too = happy ending for Saber?

I DENY THAT ENDING!!!
no shirou means no shirou+rin its time paradox~~~

Actually,

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it would mean Shirou would never of been adopted by Kiritsugu, and quite possably he wouldn't of know that he was a magic user, and to top it all off Shirou wouldn't of known that he was the bone of his sword either. So therefore there would be no GARcher so that's where the time paradox begins.

technically, that is right..but in the first place, kiritsugu not finding shirou=shirou dead
havent finish reading fate zero so not really sure but even if avenger dont take the image of his wife, kotomine still there right?

Kotomine is as good as dead if Kiritsugu did not destroy the grail since Kotomine was shot in the heart by his magical bullet and later on recieve a fake heart from the grail which splattered on him >_>

"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."

Kotomine is as good as dead if Kiritsugu did not destroy the grail since Kotomine was shot in the heart by his magical bullet and later on recieve a fake heart from the grail which splattered on him >_>

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I always though that after he was shot, he made a wish to the holy grail which then caused the great fire..if not mistaken, he wished for all around him to disappear right??

Sorry if i'm wrong since i'm basing this on the anime and visual novel only

Kotomine is as good as dead if Kiritsugu did not destroy the grail since Kotomine was shot in the heart by his magical bullet and later on recieve a fake heart from the grail which splattered on him >_>

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I always though that after he was shot, he made a wish to the holy grail which then caused the great fire..if not mistaken, he wished for all around him to disappear right??

Sorry if i'm wrong since i'm basing this on the anime and visual novel only

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He made a wish and then got shot. Or he made the wish as he was dying. There's no way of him making the wish after the tainted Grail splashed on him; that means Kiritsugu had already destroyed it and it has no way of granting wish anymore.

And noone would blame you for basing your arguments on the VN. It's the most canon source after all. >_>

Yes. It's because Kirei made that wish for people to disappear from the surrounding area that the gigantic fire devastated the park.

What I'm saying is, Kirei probably unconsciously wished (for that) before he was shot by Kiritsugu. Or as he was dying. Not after he had been splashed by the Grail content, since it would mean the Grail cannot grant wish anymore.