Until the spirit is poured out on us

Wednesday, May 3

The year was 33 C.E., and it was the day of Pentecost. In an upper room in Jerusalem, a group of about 120 Christians were gathered together, “persisting in prayer.” What was about to happen to them fulfilled a prophecy uttered by the prophet Joel. God’s holy spirit was poured out on that group of Christians who were gathered in the upper room. They started to prophesy, or bear witness, concerning the wonderful things they had seen and heard. To a multitude that soon gathered, the apostle Peter explained the significance of what had happened. Then he told his audience: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.” Altogether about 3,000 accepted the invitation that day, were baptized, and received the promised holy spirit.

COMMENTARY

God’s spirit was the power that originally created the universe. It was his spirit that molded the first man out of clay and animated Adam by blowing the breath of life into his nostrils. It was God’s spirit that came upon Samson and gave him the strength of a hundred mighty men. God’s spirit came upon Elijah too and moved him to run faster than horses for 40 miles.

God’s spirit worked in more subtle ways too, moving men to accurately write down the things they saw and heard and thought to form what we know as the Bible.

Jesus received the full measure of God’s spirit when he was anointed with the holy spirit. And the same spirit anointed others after Jesus. But even before his ascension, the apostles were given God’s spirit. How else could they have cast out demons and performed healing? But after his resurrection Jesus appeared to the apostles in a materialized body and imparted even more holy spirit to his disciples, as recorded in the 20th chapter of John:“Then the disciples rejoiced at seeing the Lord. Jesus said to them again: ‘May you have peace. Just as the Father has sent me, I also am sending you.’ After saying this he blew on them and said to them: ‘Receive holy spirit.’”

So, the spirit was given in accord with the commission to preach, which is why Jesus sent the apostles. The anointing came afterwards.

With the appearance of the Bible Students grouped around C.T. Russell in the 1880’s it is apparent that God’s spirit was on the move again. Not only were they uncovering long-hidden doctrinal truth, but the Bible Students immediately began preaching. Given the difficulty and sacrifice involved, surely God’s spirit was the impelling force that moved them. After a long period of drought the spirit was being poured out again, not only sending preachers out into the world, but anointing them to be joint heirs of the heavenly Kingdom.

But just because a person has been anointed by the spirit does not mean they are continually filled with the spirit. It is a constant process of renewal and replenishment. And even at that, God has not given the full measure of his spirit. How do we know? Because according to prophecy, that is reserved for the future —when Christ returns.

The 32nd chapter of Isaiah lays it out, saying: “Look! A king will reign for righteousness, and princes will rule for justice. And each one will be like a hiding place from the wind, a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless land, like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land. Then the eyes of those seeing will no longer be pasted shut, and the ears of those hearing will pay attention. The heart of those who are impetuous will ponder over knowledge, and the stammering tongue will speak fluently and clearly.”

Presently Jehovah’s Witnesses imagine that Christ has been reigning since 1914. They also have been deluded into believing that the elders are the princes who are a refuge from the storm. In reality, the storm has not begun and Jehovah’s Witnesses are those whose eyes are pasted shut, who have impetuously believed that they have nothing left to learn.

The reason for the delusion is because the organization is influenced by apostates. The prophecy continues: “The senseless one will no longer be called generous, and the unprincipled man will not be called noble; for the senseless one will speak nonsense, and his heart will devise harmful things, to promote apostasy and to speak what is wayward against Jehovah, to cause the hungry one to go unfed and to deprive the thirsty one of something to drink. The devices of the unprincipled man are bad; he promotes shameful conduct to ruin the afflicted one with lies, even when the poor speaks what is right.”

The Watchtower’s entire 1914 invisible parousia doctrine is best summed up as total nonsense. It is packaged in a way to make it seem plausible, it seems like secret knowledge that is only accessible to the wise, but it is nonsense. In demonstration of that fact Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot coherently answer the simplest questions posed, such as in these 30 Questions or Ten Questions.

Presently, Jehovah’s Witnesses lavish praise upon the faithful slave for his bounteous spiritual provisions, in spite of the nonsense they are fed.But what happens when the whole thing comes undone, as it surely will when world war erupts? The spiritually hungry one will go unfed and the thirsty one will go without drink. The Watchtower Society will become useless. It will become like an abandoned city.

Then the next phase will begin: “Until the spirit is poured out on us from above, and the wilderness becomes an orchard, and the orchard is regarded as a forest. Then justice will reside in the wilderness, and righteousness will dwell in the orchard. The result of true righteousness will be peace, and the fruitage of true righteousness will be lasting tranquillity and security.”

After the wicked are eliminated along with their lies, during the darkest period of history the spirit will be poured out from above as never before. It will accomplish the final sealing. Then the chosen ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.The truth will shine as never before. Isaiah 30:26 describes it this way: “And the light of the full moon will become like the light of the sun; and the light of the sun will become seven times stronger, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals the severe wound from the blow he inflicted.”

Just as the apostles saw Christ after his resurrection, when he blew upon them in gesture of their receiving the holy wind, the spirit, so too, the chosen ones will see Jesus and receive the full measure of the holy spirit —becoming full-grown into Christ. Jesus will come alongside of them and minister to them, which, of course, is what parousia literally means. That is sure to be an enlightening experience. Then the chosen ones will become as strong as Samson in a spiritual sense. They will be like lions for Jehovah. Micah 5:8 describes their transformation this way: “The remaining ones of Jacob will be among the nations, in the midst of many peoples, like a lion among the beasts of a forest, like a young lion among flocks of sheep, that passes through and pounces and tears in pieces; and there is no one to rescue them. Your hand will be raised over your adversaries, and all your enemies will be destroyed.”

Then the chosen ones will serve as princes who will be a hiding place from the reign of tyranny. That is when the sons of God are revealed. Then the new world will begin even before this wicked world is destroyed.

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”in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals the severe wound from the blow he inflicted.”
”Then the new world will begin even before this wicked world is destroyed”
very encouraging in front of the difficult time we are going to endure

Francis Bencharles

At the same time the false Christ’s, those that paraded around with their heads held high, because they were supposedly part of the Bride of Christ will be exposed for all to see. People who are revered and respected as God’s anointed ones will be found out to be the frauds that they are. From the congregations all the way up to the GB. I suspect that more than one of the GB are imposter’s. How about you?

Beverly kenyon

Mmmm….Geoffrey Jackson or most probably the lot of them as I do not believe that anyone of them is a secret lemonade drinker i.e a secret follower of Truth… a secret disciple!

Max

Wow, I can not imagine the huge test it will be for the brotherhood if the GB ended up not being anointed. You know at Bethel those man are almost sacred they are really revered as speaking for Jehovah himself. Now that culture creates a trend specially at bethel but throughout the organization too that you could never have a different of opinion with them because if you do you are doing so against Jehovah himself.

Francis Bencharles

Hi Max:

Remember, just because one or some are false Christ’s in no way means that all are. In Jesus group of Apostles there was one who was false, that we know for sure, and was identified by Jesus as a “Devil”. But, be assured that some who proclaim to be “Christ’s” or anointed are not, and they (if they are in a position of control) are the ones who steer God’s people in the wrong direction through the democracy that was set up in the 1970’s with a 2/3 vote required for any major decisions. Don’t get me wrong, even those who are truly anointed can also be misled, but it is not because they are “devils”, but it is because they have become weak and under the control and influence of the “man of lawlessness” instead of following Jesus and the Word of God.

Sit tight, you have a great advantage handed to you from Jehovah through Robert King’s proclamations of judgment to the Watchtower. You know that although Jehovah’s Witnesses were God’s people and had his blessings, that they have apostatized and become rogue. They are about to be disciplined severely by God and Christ because those whom are loved by Jehovah and his Son will be disciplined if they go rogue and those who are indeed wicked will be disciplined in all severity. You know this in advance whereas most JW’s do not. Jehovah is going to “rock” or shake all the faithful (out of the WT and the world) to their senses and these ones will follow the Christ wherever he leads them. The rest will remain in the Watchtower as it gets even worse after all the faithful are “gone” because the WT has become their God unfortunately, their Baal, their golden calf.

Max

Yes, you are right. Can you expand on the 1970 2/3 vote please?

Francis Bencharles

it was sometime in the 1970’s, I’m not sure of the exact date but around 75 or 76. You can look it up on the societies site fairly easily.

Beverly kenyon

Cruel how they mislead some of these men in the congregations by making them think they’re ‘princes’ and a hiding place from the wind and a place of concealment from the rainstorm. Seriously. Imperfect men! Some of those ‘princes’ have treated the sheep in the most cruel ways, the history of some of them is disgusting! Hiding paedophiles because theyre too cowardly to say no. Not my princes!! Thoroughly enjoyed this latest article and Thank You Brother King for imparting your insightful knowledge on their daily text it’s just a pity that all of JW’s can’t read your commentary as their eyes are pasted shut and their ears hearing but not paying attention!

Thinking

Ha!..you are thinking of that study article on the dukes etc…lol…what a farce that study was…I remember an elders wife coming up to me and saying ..wow what did you think of that study…she was all aglow…..all I could say was…it didn’t make any sense to me….I was frustrated at the time as I couldn’t explain as to why it was absolute nonsense….Never mind Beverly …I guess in a way Jehovah sorted out a few big headed elders…well sis we are still standing!!!!!we have survived!!,..not much longer now….and soon hopefully we will experience this relief Robert is talking about…xx

Beverly kenyon

Hi Sister Thinking, I wasn’t around for that study article but I read about that subject in an article Brother King wrote covering it…Who are the 7 Shepherds and Eight Dukes! You said their explanation of that subject was nonsense well it’s up there along with the laughable ‘overlapping generation’ nonsense! You’re right Sister Thinking, not much longer and yes, we’re still standing and surviving! True!

Huldah

Hi Thinking
I watched a short morning worship talk from JW Broadcasting about a month ago that actually changed this teaching and says the princes will be chosen after Armageddon. Only the bible era princes like Moses are a guarantee not the elders. It was a nice breath of fresh air.
Can’t remember who gave it but its one Sommer Daley has up on Youtube.

They were referring to the “princes” mentioned in the 45th Psalm. Those princes are Jesus’ forefathers who will be resurrected on earth. They are different than the princes who will be a hiding place from the rainstorm. Obviously, there will be no need for a shelter from the storm after Satan is put away.

Huldah

Yes true I don’t think they were talking about the hiding place application but I remember him mentioning the elders and something to the effect that they would be determined to be princes at the end. Seemed to me he addressed both the forefathers and the elders from what I remember. I did watch it twice? I watched a month ago so I’ll have find it and add a link so everyone can give their take of what was said.

Huldah

Yes they didn’t seem to change anything on the hiding place application to the elders. The Title is “Hiding Place from the Wind” Br. Flodin did say that not all elders now will be princes then but Jesus will choose princes at the start of the new world. Implying that it would be from branch overseers and circuit overseers and such. From what I had understood that seems to be a change. I’m trying to put a link?

Huldah

I see what you mean, it seems they are combining both which have different times of application. Don’t know where the dukes come in either, but it appears that they are inching away from assuming all the elders just slide into Armageddon as guaranteed princes, which is the impression I got before. I guess they may have noticed some of the corruption among the elders and made the logical conclusion. You have to take what you can get. Getting any new light of truth out of the organization nowadays is something akin to squeezing blood out of a turnip. For some reason I keep squeezing despite the frustration. Lol

Thinking

Well that’s excellent to hear…..thanks for informing me of this…and yes it would have been refreshing to hear such wheat like talk….I find this very encouraging …I think..and correct me if I’m wrong …but this is what Russel originally taught….and I don’t know if it’s my Imagination but they seem to have gone back to a few of Russell’s original thoughts….mmm…it looks like I also need to make more of an effort to keep up to date .
With the broadcasting….sigh!!!….thanks again for this..

Srecko Sostar

another example of WTJWorg changing doctrine policies 🙂

Richard Long

Are you expecting a follow on letter to the elders so that they might get the message they are not princes and may not pardon predators while persecuting the victims?

Huldah

That’s what I mean about the frustration. Every once in a while in a magazine or at a district convention, I get a whisper of truth trying to break through all the apostate noise like Jehovah or someone in Bethel who loves truth is still trying to put it out there. However, I get a real sense that, there is pandering to the boys club going on. This may be an instance where they are afraid to step on the toes of the elders so they put one or two sentences in a video, rather than write an article or “a letter” (Lol, that’ll be the day) that can’t be disputed.

Robert mentioned how the evil slave’s voice will be ‘ muffled and chirping from the ground’ when the judgement on the house of God is carried out. Isaiah 29:4
“Brought low, you will speak from the ground; your speech will mumble out
of the dust. Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth; out of the
dust your speech will whisper.”

I feel like right now the TRUTH is being muffled, but then it will be the LIES that are muffled. The tables will be turned.
I like how Jesus says it, “that is where their weeping and the gnashing of THEIR teeth will be”.
Right now it is those who love truth who are weeping and grinding their teeth from stress, but soon it will be THEM!

Richard Long

Given that I have never made anything close to the sacrifice to Jehovah you and your family have made, I’m inclined to accept your assessment. When asking myself does the WT look more like what they claim to be, the Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. class or like what they claim to oppose, the Satanic/Empirical system of mechanisms designed to convert resources into cash bypassing the creation of goods of intrinsic value, I am forced to conclude the latter. However, at least some of the goods of intrinsic value are still sleeping within the congregations, (I can’t speak to Bethel, WHO KNOWS what goes on there), and I feel there must be something we are supposed to be doing to help them, I just haven’t discovered my way forward yet. I reason I must be in the put on your own air mask before helping your child with hers phase of the plane crash.

Huldah

Love the air mask analogy. I totally agree with what you said here. Great method of deductive reasoning. As an aside, I’m glad I never ended up serving at Bethel, though I used to think it would be the highest honor.
Thanks for the generous compliment, by the way. I don’t think any of us would be here looking for the real truth if we had not made some sort of sacrifice for Jehovah that he appreciates.

Hope this link works. Kenneth Flodin “Hiding Place From the Wind”
uploaded by Sommer Daley to Youtube

What do you think?

Thinking

This is why I gave up on watching these clips…as you said to Robert there seems to be a little readjustment as to WHO will be chosen as princes in The new system…and where they come from….common sense should tell us all that anyway…but they don’t seem to have changed their view as to NOW….I THINK????…they sort of are still saying they are considered as princes/ dukes….they would beleive that because of VSE 2 …..so how are they explaining vse15…..
Oh well…Jehovah does allow the wheat to talk at times….just not this one..lol….and what’s with the sisters talk ???..good grief !!!, ..she would be nuts to want to be a princess..lol….
Oh well Hulda…we sharpened iron on iron….Also in the new translation I think I read some where Dukes was retranslated into princess…not sure if I’m right there tho…
But I can see easily how you thought they had changed it….I had to listen to it four times….I’m presuming those princes will stand out when it all goes south….:)

Huldah

I perused the “Dukes” WT article to get an idea what exactly was said in it. It seems to say the elders are dukes or princes now in the congregation preparing to lead us through the Great Tribulation. I don’t see anything about them being “princes in all the earth” in paradise, mentioned the article. I was led to believe somewhere that current elders were almost guaranteed that they were going to be ” princes in all the earth” (of Psalm 45) along with the forefathers like Jacob and Moses. I can’t find a WT article, but this is what I was led to believe for years. I think a lot of elders and, apparently, their wives believed this.

I watched the video again and I do think it lays this idea to rest, though they aren’t making a hullabaloo about it. The real princes will be ones who come out of the Great Tribulation who are chosen directly by Jesus. We can be sure they will be truly faithful men. Jesus chooses. I believe that is what Br. Flodin is actually saying.

As to your point about wanting to be a prince or princess, it might be good for them to take this scripture into account before they take their illustrious title….

Isaiah 3:13

13 Jehovah is taking his position to accuse;
He is standing up to pass sentence on peoples.

14 Jehovah will enter into judgment with the elders and princes of his people.

“You have burned down the vineyard,
And what you have stolen from the poor is in your houses.+

15 How dare you crush my people
And grind the faces of the poor in the dirt?”+ declares the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies.

16 Jehovah says: “Because the daughters of Zion are haughty,
Walking with their heads high,*
Flirting with their eyes, skipping along,
Making a tinkling sound with their anklets,

17 Jehovah will also strike the head of the daughters of Zion with scabs,
And Jehovah will make their forehead bare.+

Thinking

I was hoping you would do,that….at the moment I have a sick grand child and I have not the energy or time….so I’m very grateful to you…Yes that’s how I remember it…it was a very frustrating time for me …as the elders wife that spoke with me was so aglow with this new thought…and the trouble is..our elders were bad enough with out this elevation given to them…and along with that ..the elders wives also elevated themselves along with them….it is interesting that the CO many years later removed these ones but also heavily councelled the wives also…..I write this for others to be encouraged that Jehovah does step in at times to relieve a poisoned cong……for personally I had great frustration with Jehovah for allowing things for so long…

That talk I think is trying to undo what was said …sort of…I wish they would just talk and speak plainly….and be up front tho..
One thing I have noticed is there are a few now who are open to different thoughts and angles on scriptures…..there is a softening going on…..
I don’t me know if it’s happening over your way…but over here they joke openly about ..tight pants…and brothers who have , product …in their hair….hahah..a Bethel brother at a convention made a big deal over that here a few years ago….
Even some elders just shake their heads and raise their eyebrows….we are in survival mode over here…and it is showing….
Thanks for doing all that homework sis….keep hanging in there …

Richard Long

That convention talk was a huge part of the tipping point for Daniel Genser.

Huldah

Yes these petty grievances are so frustrating. Years ago, my husband and I had just sold our home in order to simplify to become the only pioneer couple (2/3 pioneers) in our congregation of 150. Super wealthy area, which showed in the lifestyles, mindsets and pursuits of the publishers and the elders.

The CO comes around. Guess who he decides to take issue with? It’s me. It’s me. Of course, I must have done something horrendous to warrant his great displeasure. What was it, you ask? Well, he was mortified, and rightly so, to have to be subjected on a continuous basis to the brazen exposure of my naked toes through my sandals, sin panty hose. Yes panty hose. What a sin. I remember those sexy sandals very fondly. They were so comfortable I took them to serve as a need greater in Nicaragua just two years later, but sadly, left them with a sweet sister there. I didn’t wear pantyhose in Nicaragua either and this may be too shocking to bear, but my hubby didn’t even have to wear a tie! GASP!!!!

I remember having that CO over for lunch where I had made a very tall dense chocolate cake. I came out of the kitchen with a wide butcher knife to cut it and his eyes got big as if he thought I was going to use it on him! I’ll never forget that. Lol.

Richard Long

(sigh)
I have no words, just thanks that you remain in Jehovah’s love.

Huldah

Thank you, Richard, needed that:)

Richard Long

Another point on this… Russell, Rutherford, Knorr… All of them really… became subject to a cult of personality and got used to having wealthy publishers gifting them. The question on my mind of late is whether the “organization” was ever necessary for the accomplishment of Jehovah’s purposes of spreading the good news, or is our perception of it’s necessity more “delusion echo”? Mathematically, it could probably be proven the result would have been better if Russell had told two friends and those told two friends, and so on. Also asking myself if the necessity of the organization​ is more for the documentation of our failures and apostasy, so we can see for ourselves how deserving we are of the coming discipline. Can you see why I’m such a mess? lol

Thinking

Who is he?

Richard Long

Daniel Is the man who broke my 1914. A brother who waged a valiant fight for his faith and to date, seems to be losing. Do not read this if you are not prepared to cry.

What a sad story. His faith is completely destroyed, all for questioning a few things, finding some answers, and finding out the hard way you’re not supposed to do that. The irony is that he, for a while at least, trusted too much in men…and now that seems to be all he trusts in. No God whatsoever in his life anymore. The only hope I see is that he says he’s open to things changing. Maybe some prayers for he and his wife might make him reconsider.

Richard Long

By all means, pray for them. Though strangers, the impact his story has had on my life is immeasurable and I can’t explain why. I think of them often. My hope is that Jehovah, knowing His own, leads their hearts home.

Huldah

Hope your grandchild is getting better. Glad I could help!

Jehovah must have used you at just the right time.

Your comment about Jehovah stepping in to remove the elders in your congregation brought tears to my eyes, literally.
I’m having a bit of a meltdown right now as we speak over the cruelty and immorality that I have been directly abused with by the elders, their wives, and their children. I’ve been waiting quite a while for Jehovah to do something about several cases of injustice that I have suffered under for years. I’m losing hope badly today. I’m getting nowhere with my efforts to seek justice and Satan is craftily twisting things to misrepresent me, while they are strutting around like the princes and princesses they think they are. Extremely painful. I get a lot of comfort from this site.

You are a beautiful blessing, sister! Keep informing us of your thought and experiences, you obviously have a lot to offer in wisdom and encouragement. Thanks so much.

Irons does sharpen iron:)

Thinking

Oh sis this is so heartbreaking and frustrating for me to read…it must be a worldwide phenomenon going on in our congs …it’s actually very hard for me to….spill my guts on here..haha..not a very lady like expression but is very Australian..and I’m past the point of being diplomatic and lady like anyway..hahah
I am always combating my bitterness….it has reared it ugly head of late for some reason and I beg Jehovah to take it from me….and with some effort on my part he does..to a bearable point anyway…

Sis..you won’t get justice…not yet anyway….but it WILL COME….for now Jehovah will allow you to go to breaking point….just as he allowed Jesus his own son to….so why would he treat us any differently.
You are being tested and refined and for some reason he is allowing it.
pray for some form of relief…..but keep going ….
I had to go back to meetings because he clearly showed me why….but I had to train myself to sit there and listen and look at an elder who had a good portion of my sons blood on his hands….it was utter hell…but I talked to him all the time…and eventually it became doeable but still awful…

Surviving in a congregation like this is the hardest thing ..other than my boy’s death I have had to do…but Jehovah did step in…..but he takes so so so long to do it….and that is what you are contending with now….
You are being refined like the Gold of Ophir….it would seem he is watching you and your battle….don’t give up sis..
Also if you wish to speak personally with me….you can PM me on e JW forum …sometimes just having some one who has gone thru the same thing can make all the difference in the world…..
Biggest hug to you sis …xxx

Huldah

You are sent directly from Jehovah to me. It’s unbelievable how closely our feelings, challenges and experiences mirror one another. I’m taking your example to heart and I’m sure it will help me to endure and still be able to make sacrifices for the truth despite the bad example of some. Thanks for the compassion. There’s so much here, but so little in the congregation and none in the world. Hugs to you too.

Song of Hannah

Huldah, really appreciate you sharing this. My husband and I have been facing a similar situation. As he stated one day “There is no platform for justice in this organization anymore.” And it’s the truth. Don’t get me wrong – there used to be. And many, many times in the past, we saw how Jehovah acted in behalf of the congregation to keep it clean. But we are not seeing that here anymore. Wicked elders are now ruling with impunity, and any attempts to expose them are squashed quickly. Satan has definitely infiltrated and grabbed each congregation by the neck, one by one.

My own thought is, Jehovah’s patience causes him to continue to act in lands where his purpose toward it has not yet been fulfilled (the preaching work having been proclaimed throughout that land). But after his purpose there has been completed, he allows the wicked to gather together, but for another purpose.

And that’s why the organization still exists, and in a few lands the congregations are still flourishing. Meanwhile all the wicked will continue to succeed within the leadership, as they continue to oust the righteous from among them.

But as soon as Jehovah’s purpose has been fulfilled toward all the races (ethnos) of the earth, then the end will come. The entire wicked leadership, having been allowed to gather together as one, will be judged. Refusing Jehovah’s judgement, they and any who side with them will be destroyed. The few remaining righteous but culpable ones who accept Jehovah’s discipline will be sentenced to dungeons and prisons, and the entire flock who remain will go off into captivity. Here are a few scriptures that lead me toward this understanding – and really helps me to endure and to stay seated in the temple.

Exodus 9:15 “For by now I could have thrust my hand out to strike you and your people with a devastating plague, and you would have been wiped out from the earth. 16 But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth.”

Proverbs 16:4 Jehovah has made everything work for his purpose, Even the wicked for the day of disaster.

Ps 92:7 When the wicked sprout like weeds And all the wrongdoers flourish, It is that they may be annihilated forever.

Thinking

You have always been incredibly balanced Hannah….a pleasure to read….this is great comfort to me,,,.xx

Huldah

Yes, Hannah, great summation of the situation. I’ve been thinking about Paul’s words.

Romans 9:21

21When
a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the
same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw
garbage into?

22What
if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known,
bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for
destruction?
23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

2 Timothy 2:21
20In
a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also
of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use.

21Those
who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special
purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good
work.

Post from Christianity 201 Website:(Don’t really read or recommend this site, but stumbled upon this wording and thought it explains things nicely.)

“The Church will be full of not only vessels of honor (running towards
holiness), but vessels of dishonor (running from holiness).”

I have always taken these texts to indicate that the dishonorable vessels are used by Jehovah to refine the honorable ones. In his wisdom, Jehovah has set up an exact situation which proves the righteous as both worthy and in need of his deliverance as he also proves the wicked to be hardened in a course of willful disobedience in requiring destruction. As in the case of Pharoah and the Israelites.
Lowly ones in cong=Israelite slaves
haughty ones in the cong=Pharoah

Romans 9:16

16It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
17For
Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that
I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in
all the earth.”g

18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Unfortunately we suffer greatly due this, but it’s a true comfort to understand why.

1Peter 1:6

6In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
7These
have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth
than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in
praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Thinking

Beautiful…so calming and a balm to the soul…

Huldah

For me too. I had to dig long and hard for this treasure. Glad it resonates with so many.

Burt Reynolds

Thanks for that. It’s given me a better understanding of Jehovah’s purpose.

Song of Hannah

Thanks for those scriptures! Helps put the whole thing together in my mind.

Huldah

I printed this out and showed it to my husband. He’s finding the experiences of others here helpful too.
I thought more about what you said about the wicked succeeding within the leadership. You know how you pretty much have to be dishonest to be a lawyer or a politician? I’m finding in my congregation that you pretty much have to be callus and unconcerned about the sheep to serve.

There are so many brothers here who tried serving as ministerial servants, but had to step down due to discouragement or pressure and overburdening. 3 of them moved completely. Several others simply stopped serving. One younger brother, despite initially being humble seems to be developing the hard nosed, guilt mongering ways of the elders. He’s been the only servant who has kept it up for years. His wife has come to me several times in tears.
I think he’s a spiritual person. He’s just being badly trained. I’ve noticed that the ones that hold on and progress to elders become hardened.

It’s weird because I don’t think the elders are doing it on purpose. They don’t even get how out of line they are. They always seem so surprised they can’t attract or keep any new servants.

Jehovah’s people are sheep and they will follow their leaders. It’s very logical that Satan would seek to undermine the leadership by making it impossible for someone with an honest heart to serve within. I’m sure you were thinking of how this fits the “man of lawlessness”.

Song of Hannah

Thanks for your reply, Huldah. It sounds like you and your hubby have been through a lot .

I honestly used to believe that none of them were doing it on purpose. That it was just their imperfection. After all, we were living in a spiritual paradise, right?

Yes, with some they are just imperfect, bumbling and trying to do the best job they can. But how can one tell when they are really truly wicked? We found out by accident – and only stumbled upon the answer – that it happens when you shower them with love.

That’s what exposes them. When you love them back – and I mean really love them, not just go through the motions – even when they are tearing you up, and trying to kill you off spiritually. It’s the hardest thing we’ve ever done, but we wanted to obey Jesus command to love our brothers. Yet instead of responding to that love, they try even harder to kill you off spiritually. That’s when you know, that they are truly evil, and nothing but satanic minions planted by the devil. That’s why I find Ezekiel 34 one of the most comforting chapters ever.

Huldah

You proved yourselves. They proved themselves.
And Jehovah took note. Don’t think for one second that he didn’t.

Burt Reynolds

Now is not the time for justice Huldah. It was not for me or for a multiplicity of others on this site, and in the congregations. We may have to endure the secret difficulty of seeing these ones escape as a test to our own forgiveness. It was, and still is on occasion, a difficulty for me to deal with my feelings and to actually hope that these people who did me wrong, can help themselves to enter into Jehovah’s forgiveness. But is it really an issue what others do to us? Even if others kill us, how do they profit by it? If we rile at their indifference and make it our own, then we share it with them. We have to go up to our roofs and ignore the slander going on in our household as the scripture says we should. Eventually, I became tired of my emotions nagging at me and it became easier to forgive these ones, rather than expend my energies in wishing for revenge or justice. And I was vengeful for many years. It is a human condition that justice goes hand in hand with revenge. However, it was no small help to see my own sins stack up and thus open my eyes to the fact that just as they did to me, so to speak, not being of the annointed, they did to Christ. Elders treating the flock harshly. The alarming revelation was that the ethic applied to me as well. So I quit being angry and left it between them and Jehovah and looked to my own wrongdoing so that I could reduce it if I could and make myself a viable alternative to them lest there be nothing to choose between us.

Huldah

I sincerely hope I get to the same place as you and, in fact, I see signs that Jehovah is bringing me there already. A valuable line of reasoning for those of us who have been deeply wronged.

Thinking

That was just loverly brother…I also eventually came to your conclusion…my face was held a fraction from the fire …I could let it burn me black….or let it refine me as a person….and that was and is still remaining to be the harder choice…but there are so many of us now….we are not so alone as before…much love to you both xxx

Burt Reynolds

I know what you’re saying, but it is the bibles conclusion and wisdom, not mine!

Burt Reynolds

I recall getting ‘product’ in my hair once out on the ministry. I was standing under a seagull.

Francis Bencharles

He seems like a nice fit for the GB. Dedicated to 1914. Hooray!

Richard Long

I think the second he stated that Christ began to rule in 1914 his credibility was vacated and it was time to walk out of the auditorium.

Huldah

I suppose I will need to come to terms with the fact that I have to expect some snarkiness from you. Lol

Richard Long

I was born ornery. lol

Burt Reynolds

I was under the impression that having survived the tribulation, we would need no human intermediary. How can one person be more perfect than another after Satan is done away with after the 1000 years? If this was the case, then look for me somewhere in the Amazon rain forest.

JTK

with regard to the scripture Robert quotes at the end of his commentary that refers to these ones as the lions of Judah among sheep.
What is that scripture describing?
as Robert indicates it is a Holy spirit empowered group. But what is their task?
“Like a young lion among flocks of sheep” ?
to shelter others from the wind? it seems not so at this point in time, but the situation changes from defence to attack.
any thoughts anyone

Just as the apostles saw Christ after his resurrection, when he blew upon them in gesture of their receiving the holy wind, the spirit, so too, the chosen ones will see Jesus and receive the full measure of the holy spirit —becoming full-grown into Christ. Jesus will come alongside of them and minister to them, which, of course, is what parousia literally means. That is sure to be an enlightening experience. Then the chosen ones will become as strong as Samson in a spiritual sense. They will be like lions for Jehovah. Micah 5:8 describes their transformation this way: “The remaining ones of Jacob will be among the nations, in the midst of many peoples, like a lion among the beasts of a forest, like a young lion among flocks of sheep, that passes through and pounces and tears in pieces; and there is no one to rescue them. Your hand will be raised over your adversaries, and all your enemies will be destroyed.”

Then the chosen ones will serve as princes who will be a hiding place from the reign of tyranny. That is when the sons of God are revealed. Then the new world will begin even before this wicked world is destroyed.

The Raven

Yep, that ^. I didn’t see your comment until after I commented. lol! I just LOVE disqus!

Bklyn Kevin

I love the fact that you guys are really doing your research as the Apostle Paul had instructed.

The Raven

That’s what I like about this site. I’ve been stuck inside on a rainy day and going through a lot of older articles and some podcasts. I found some answers and of course…more questions. I’m waiting for a few pings on them.

Bklyn Kevin

Proverbs 3:13, 14
Happy is the man who finds wisdom
And the man who acquires discernment;
To gain it is better than gaining silver,
And having it as profit is better than having gold.

It cannot be bought with pure gold;
Nor can silver be weighed out in exchange for it.
It cannot be bought with gold of Oʹphir
Nor with rare onyx and sapphire.
Gold and glass cannot be compared to it;
Nor can a vessel of fine* gold be exchanged for it.
Coral and crystal are not worthy of mention,
For a bagful of wisdom is worth more than one full of pearls.
Job 28:15-18.

The Raven

Amen. I’m working hard in hope that Jehovah grants me even a small measure.

Very rare to find an individual who can explain Jehovah’s thoughts so well that it seems like he’s explaining his own. There is something beyond knowledge at work here and I believe that to be a sign of someone truly inspired. Thanks, Kevin.

Richard Long

Would be a much more difficult endeavor without our archivist. Thank you for loving us and the truth enough to expend yourself in this way!

The Raven

Yes! That!

Bklyn Kevin

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows.
For the entire Law has been fulfilled in one commandment, namely: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.”Galatians 5:14
Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations
Matthew 28:19-A.

JTK

Same as the Raven, Kevin, your comment came up later when I posted to the Raven
so the real time of sheltering from the real wind of tribulation is future
God always provides at just the right time

Burt Reynolds

Those are scriptures of great comfort and explanation and very timely. Thank you.

“The book of Micah portrays the chastened sons of God as becoming like lions among the lambs. That is what is portrayed by the ferocious, locust-like warriors. Their having crowns of gold indicates that they have indeed become kings in God’s kingdom, even though still upon the earth. They are the kings from the rising of the sun who will supplant the earthly kings at the battle of Armageddon.”

The Raven

See also:

https://e-watchman.com/seven-dukes-mankind/
excerpt:
“But prior to the remaining ones being martyred and changed in the twinkling of an eye from flesh to spirit, (does not the passage say that God’s weapon is not flesh?) they are like lions among lambs. In what sense?

After being chastised and refined God will pour out his spirit in full measure, so that the sons and daughters of God will become spiritual Samsons, fearless and indomitable in their giving a final witness to Satan’s world. This phenomenon is what is foretold in Joel and symbolized in Revelation by the two witnesses. It is what is portrayed by the army of Abaddon being unleashed to sting the doomed.

Did not Jesus foretell that his chosen ones will stand before kings and governors and no one will be able to dispute them, because the holy spirit will speak through them? It is this final witness, to be given outside the authority of the Watchtower Society, accompanied by the miracle of the manifestation of the chosen ones, that will be the basis for the “reports” that drive the king of the north, the Assyrian, into his genocidal rage and bring him into direct confrontation with Michael, the great prince and shepherd of mankind.”

JTK

thanks for that Link The Raven
, and for sure it will be something to behold when the Sons of God are revealed, empowered, and deliver the final witness as never before like Lions among lambs and beasts.
Lambs and beasts interesting!

The Raven

Amen!

Daisy

Cue music…
“Then they will know He only is Jehovah,
Then they will know His words are just and true.
Then they will know Throughout The Whole Creation.
ALL He has purposed He will surely do- hoo -hoo…”

The Raven

Lol! Thanks, Daisy!

Huldah

I understand the Assyrian is the 8th king or final world govt (also Babylon or the Chaldean,despot or tyrant of the nations)
Seems Micah is using something like a poetic parallel of opposites where he first shows how the princes will be a comfort to God’s people. The first “many peoples”vs 7 is God’s true witnesses and shows “Jacob”(the true princes) to be their “hiding place”.
Vs8 switches gears and shows how Jacob will also act decisively like a warrior to rip up the works of the” nations”(the Assyrian, the tyrant) in order to defend God’s name and sheep. Lion’s symbolize courage and valor. Likely they will have to show true courage and trust in Jehovah to take action. I think the reference “lion among the sheep” is just a simple metaphor and doesn’t refer to God’s sheep.

Vs 10 mentions chariots and horses which and idols follow that. Chariots=reliance on human strength or things you can see rather than God as do horses and idols.
Jeh seems to intend to use”Jacob” and Jesus’ presence to show the power of humans to be nothing.
Vs15.
This chapter seems to direct the judgement to “the nations” though JWs will receive their own judgement for their idolatry and self reliance.

It appers that this is after the judgement on the HOG thus comfort comes after discipline and Jehovah turns the lions of Jacob on the tyrants who had terrorized his people.

The true princes arise after Jesus cleanses his house and the MOL and go on to comfort those who withstood the test while standing up to tgeir abusers.

JTK

Hi Huldah
yes it seems like a real time of change, a cleaning up and a gathering together, scary perhaps but necessary
“”lion among the sheep” is just a simple metaphor and doesn’t refer to God’s sheep””
probably so, but he also mentions beasts of the forest, i tend to see it as lambs as those who will listen and take shelter with the revealed sons of God, and beasts as those who chose the Assyrian as their saviour. just conjecture
i am so pleased that we have the heads up on what is coming, imagine if Robert had not emerged from the WT and we all were still living in a false sense of security called spiritual paradise.
knowing in advance of events does’nt guarantee taking the right action at the right time but it sure helps us to prepare

The Raven

This should help clarify.

https://e-watchman.com/any-hope-that-the-watchtower-will-reform-itself2013324any-hope-that-the-watchtower-will-reform-itself/
Excerpt:
“The ninth chapter of Revelation depicts the angel of the abyss releasing stinging locusts upon the doomed. Micah foretells that the sons of the kingdom will be like lions feasting on the lambs, saying: “And the remaining ones of Jacob must become in the midst of many peoples like dew from Jehovah, like copious showers upon vegetation, that does not hope for man or wait for the sons of earthling man. And the remaining ones of Jacob must become among the nations, in the midst of many peoples, like a lion among the beasts of a forest, like a maned young lion among droves of sheep, which, when it actually passes through, certainly both tramples down and tears in pieces; and there is no deliverer. Your hand will be high above your adversaries, and all enemies of yours will be cut off.”

The Raven

In other words, the rest of the world gets to be lunch for lions for a change.

Max

It’s very cruel indeed! This being a prince believe creates a division between you the elder and the rest of the congregation. The brother now believes he has been given a special place in the right hand of the King. So much power over the life of many in the congregation really changes many brothers for the worse specially those not so spriritual elders which where not fully spiritually prepared but were just good friends with the presiding overseer. Then we have the wives and the children of the elders they all receive special treatment at the hall and that becomes a burden for the whole elder’s family because of the need to portrait that picture perfect image of having received such a special position in the congregation. being an elder for many brothers quickly becomes a burden and the lost of the joy of Jehovah’s service quickly follows. But nobody wants to leave the position for fear of the fallout with the congregation and with the body of elders. When you step down there goes all that special treatment that for many over times became so important to have.

Beverly kenyon

In elevating and giving these men such a title creates a superior attitude in some which then creates some of the problems and attitude you mention in your post Max. Also it reminds me of the system the Catholic Church has in that they call their Cardinals, ‘Princes of the Chuch’ so the Catholics have their ‘Princes’ as well which doesn’t surprise me as in the Menlo Park congregation court case versus the WTBTS, the lawyers for the WTBTS stated, JW’s were a hierarchical Society the same as the Catholic Church, then went on to compare Bishops to co’s, Cardinals to DO’s and JW’s do have a clergy! As time goes on, will they also adopt wearing the Dagon Fish hats! Just a radical thought there!

It will be very interesting to see when the holy spirit is actually poured out to what extent that “the true knowledge will become abundant” “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”
It would seem that many think that they have this ability before the “time of the end’ is even upon us, this seems to be another hangover form you know what!

Richard Long

Again, as you so rightly have repeatedly stressed, if an “understanding” is an outcropping of the false parousia hoax, than it too will be hogwash and no amount of voodoo can cause it to make sense to an honest hearted person who has seen through the delusion. That’s the filter, not 1914 per se, but the false parousia, said delusion overtaking us (JW’s) almost immediately with Russell, et.al. and it might be said the first real test of ones faith is whether it can survive awakening from the delusion.

JTK

thanks for that commentary Robert, truly the Spirit in fullness upon the Heirs of the Kingdom is what all creation desires, the revealing of the Sons of God.The time when all will know without doubt, and the choice will be clear, receive the mark and worship the beast, or to heed the annointed and worship the true God.
However the beast will be powerful and his rule will be painful but thankfully to Yahweh and His King Christ it will be short.
come Lord Jesus