The National Rifle Association or NRA is a fixture of American politics: it's extremely influential, and its influence is hotly debated to say the least. This is a recent comment from a colleague of mine (I've quoted him before here at dharmawheel...):

it seems clear to me that the NRA, at the very least, is a massively destructive organization with considerable blood on its hands.

Jikan wrote:The National Rifle Association or NRA is a fixture of American politics: it's extremely influential, and its influence is hotly debated to say the least. This is a recent comment from a colleague of mine (I've quoted him before here at dharmawheel...):

it seems clear to me that the NRA, at the very least, is a massively destructive organization with considerable blood on its hands.

I take the precepts as a first principle. NRA practices & policies seem so grievously beyond the precepts to me that the rest of the conversation is moot. That's why I put it the way I did, and why I didn't find it necessary to go into other reasons why I wouldn't want to share karma with an organization such as the NRA. Quite the contrary, I find compelling reasons to work against the proliferation of weapons, gun culture, "gun porn," & concomitant gun violence in our culture.

It's easy to examine the cultural context of Buddhism and find it cheek by jowl with weaponry.

However, each culture has its laws, perhaps supplemented by codes of behaviour.

Japanese martial arts lived (and maybe still live) alongside Zen, but this is far removed from a situation where anyone may arm themselves for any reason, bereft of moral consideration.

My mind jumps immediately to 'intent'. It is entirely feasible that a Buddhist who has a gun may be faced with shooting someone in order to save lives, whether that be in the military, on the street or at home.

I would never join the military, but as a martial artist I have used my training, on the rare occasions that it was necessary, to cause the least harm to the fewest people, including an attacker, if I could not run.

Guns, however, make that almost impossible, as my attacker may be at a distance, making my only defence to shoot. I would need to apply the same principle, but recognise that I may not be able to disarm them without killing them. If he had a dozen hostages he was about to execute, could I do that? No idea.

We have plenty of guns in the UK now. No political support of any substance. Guns are easily available to criminals - but not to those they wish to threaten or shoot. I hope we never end up with a 'gun culture'.

I am totally opposed to everything that the NRA stands for. Their position of influence arises only from the fact that they have guns. In other words, they hold the rest of society hostage.

In "thought experiments", I can imagine implausible situations where, if I had a gun, I would use it. Because of that, I have drawn a mental line in the sand, where I will never voluntarily pick one up, not will I permit one in my house.

My thoughts on this are not so much motivated by the First Precept as confirmed by it.

Yeshe wrote:I would never join the military, but as a martial artist I have used my training, on the rare occasions that it was necessary, to cause the least harm to the fewest people, including an attacker, if I could not run. .

It's important to realize that not everyone who joins the military does it to kill people. In fact, most do it to have a job. Also, it's important to remember that the military also serves as a peacekeeping force and is there to protect people. In that way it can be seen as beneficial. The job I had (pre-Buddhism) was just that kind of role. I remained a pacifist even then.

lisehull wrote:It's important to realize that not everyone who joins the military does it to kill people. In fact, most do it to have a job. Also, it's important to remember that the military also serves as a peacekeeping force and is there to protect people. In that way it can be seen as beneficial. The job I had (pre-Buddhism) was just that kind of role. I remained a pacifist even then.

lol...I joined the reserve forces in Canada on a six summer week program offered to students....

yes i never really considered at the time it was all about killing....

I soon realized in class that it was mostly all about learning how to maim..At the time Canada was really big into land mines and variants....they actually did not want us to just kill people....it was far better a tactic to maim and tie up resources....

I was shocked and was labeled a commie pinko soon enough....

Yelled at often enough for my views in class...and they tried to demoralize my "Hippie " ways....lol....

dude.....

the military is not the peace corps......is there still a peace corps.... Breaks out in a song from the mothers of invention

What's there to live for?Who needs the peace corps?Think I'll just DROP OUTI'll go to FriscoBuy a wig & sleepOn Owsley's floor

Walked past the wig storeDanced at the FillmoreI'm completely stonedI'm hippy & I'm trippyI'm a gypsy on my ownI'll stay a week & get the crabs &Take a bus back homeI'm really just a phonyBut forgive me'Cause I'm stoned

Every town must have a placeWhere phony hippies meetPsychedelic dungeonsPopping up on every streetGO TO SAN FRANCISCO . . .

How I love ya, How I love yaHow I love ya, How I love ya Frisco!How I love ya, How I love yaHow I love ya, How I love yaOh, my hair is getting good in the back!

Every town must have a placeWhere phony hippies meetPsychedelic dungeonsPopping up on every streetGO TO SAN FRANCISCO . . .

Hotcha!

First I'll buy some beadsAnd then perhaps a leather bandTo go around my headSome feathers and bellsAnd a book of Indian loreI will ask the Chamber Of CommerceHow to get to Haight StreetAnd smoke an awful lot of dopeI will wander around barefootI will have a psychedelic gleam in my eye at all timesI will love everyoneI will love the police as they kick the shit out of me on the streetI will sleep . . .I will, I will go to a houseThat's, that's what I will doI will go to a houseWhere there's a rock & roll band'Cause the groups all live togetherAnd I will join a rock & roll bandI will be their road managerAnd I will stay there with themAnd I will get the crabsBut I won't careBecause . . .

"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified." - (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

lisehull wrote:It's important to realize that not everyone who joins the military does it to kill people. In fact, most do it to have a job. Also, it's important to remember that the military also serves as a peacekeeping force and is there to protect people. In that way it can be seen as beneficial. The job I had (pre-Buddhism) was just that kind of role. I remained a pacifist even then.

Time warp aside ( ) this is a good point. I joined the Canadian Air Force because it was the Government Flying Club, and because I was proud of its peacekeeping tradition and wanted to be a part of it. However, once I became a Buddhist, I started thinking more about Right Livelihood, and realized I couldn't stay. But my experience reminds me that the people are human, not monsters.