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Do you think soliciting your W via a 3rd party (which will totally blindside her) to attend a marriage seminar will do any good?

You are backsliding Kevin. And this happens each time you see our W or she says one kind thing to you. This means you do not know how to manage expectations and you are not detached.

Do NOT have anybody call her regarding marriage C'ing or seminars. It will be the worst possible thing you could do. She has made herself perfectly clear and why would you keep pursuing her when she does NOT want that?

I am thinking about having the Joe Beam marriage seminar people call my W since she won't listen to me. Good idea or bad? Will it get me into more trouble or is there a chance she might consider it?

Does it fall back under controlling and manipulative?

Kevin

Don't do it, Kevin. It's a bad idea. She won't listen to them either, and it will piss her off royally if you did this! Yeah...it'll get you into more trouble with her. I don't think there's any chance she will consider it...and it is manipulative.

Right now, she wants time and space away from you. I know it's hard, but you need to leave her alone right now. Big time. Many of us here are struggling with spouses that left us, so we know the feelings your having. Leave her alone. That's the best thing you can do for her, your relationship, and yourself right now. Good luck, and keep working at it.

_________________________
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.

Your potential message is filled neediness and longing. You keep telling her how hard this is (needy, unable to stand on your own and be a strong man and shows no acceptance of her choices).

Telling her she looks beautiful at this point is pursuit and most probably annoying to her. Its fine to feel emotional but deal with it on your own and dont tell her that - again, it only shows her how much control she has over you and your emotions.

You need to act way more cool, collected, detached and "as if" around her. If you stop and look at the patterns - when you do act that way towards her she tends to reach out to you more. When you act needy and clingy she backs away. So, thinking in those terms what is working and what is not?

I like this letter that TheWifey wrote to her H. In my case it would be divorce papers, not separation papers. None the less, it seemed to actually work for her.

"No guilt trips. This is just reality. I love you. I would do anything for you. I want more than anything for you to be happy.

It does not matter what you say. I love you. I may be a stupid fool but I promised to love you forever and that is what I intend to do. I took marriage vows and I will live them and stand for our marriage. They will have to break down my door and come in with guns and force my fists open and make me take separation papers. They will have to cut off my finger to take off my wedding ring.

If I have to love you and be alone at the same time then I better grow a thick skin fast because I have honestly tried not to love you. I have tried and I can not stop. I do not want anyone else and I never will.

You will come to realize that we belong to each other. It may take years for you to see that. But there is no one else I would rather wait for the rest of my life than you. I do not care how I am judged by anyone, except you.

I will make you proud of me, baby. You will see that we are better together than alone. There will come a time that you will feel alone, and I will be there for you. I will be waiting for you with complete forgiveness and open arms."

What works for one person may or may NOT work for another person. I cannot stress enough the damage you will do if you send that letter to your W. It will not work as you are hoping it will - it smacks of pursuit and you being needy and unable to accept or move forward as a man. Do what you want but I think sending such a letter is a huge mistake.

It seems you are back to finding new angles to get your W back and that is not what you are supposed to be focusing on right now. You, your children and your job should be your key elements and where all your effort should be channeled.

If you MUST send her something keep it very simple, very light, non mushy/romantic and do not mention feelings or the M.

I urge you not to send such a note - for your own good. You will be destroyed by her reaction. I can almost guarantee it.