Stalked while running...again. (Read 999 times)

This has happened enough times over the years that I'm losing count--and I haven't even been running for all that much of my adult life (all 15 years).
This time was the scariest, and, of course, I forgot to bring my cell phone.
So I was having a pretty crappy run to begin with and was about 2 miles into it when it happened. I had just turned left off the end of the paved rail-trail onto a semi-desolate road. I am only on the road for a very short ways before I turn left again onto an industrial park road.
As I am approaching the industrial park road I see an older maroon Buick headed towards me. Now, this is not really all that alarming...cars come and go along this street and it's never been an issue. But this guy turns onto the industrial park road and immediately pulls in and parks in the lot on the corner of the road I'm still on and the industrial park road. As I turn the corner he continues to sit.
Shortly after I turn the corner and pass him I hear a car door close. I look behind me and he is out of his car. I speed up. I look again and he is walking on the road behind me, but on the other side. Now, mind you, this is NOT a route I would think a person would choose for a casual stroll...so I run faster yet (still a slow run, overall, LOL). Eventually I go around a bit of a corner and after that I never saw him behind me again.
Perhaps he had hoped I would slow or walk and he could catch me...dunno. Creeped the hell outta me, though. I won't be running that route again at this time of the day for a while, I don't think. Shame, too, since it's one of my very favorite routes.
Any advice of how to protect myself in such a situation? I feel like even my cell phone isn't much protection.
k

General sense in the parts where I run is that you should always run with somebody, whether you are male or female. This is especially true in the dark and in creepy parts of town. That said, I often run around my house or in populated places alone.

I don't know ANYONE around here who runs, unfortunately. Our neighbor has the sweetest male german shepherd (about a year old...wouldn't hurt a flea, but he *looks* intimidating) and I have considered asking her if I could run with her dog once-in-a-while, at least when I want to run in less populated areas.
Is pepper spray or mace useful?
k

Time to start a running group
Mace, etc, is useful if you receive good training about how to use it, like from a defense class or from the police.

I really would love to start a group--how would I even go about doing that? I fear that if I posted flyers around that it could attract the very sort of people I am trying to avoid, unfortunately.
I have heard that mace or pepper spray can be dangerous, since an attacker could use it against their victim. Still wish the tazer option were viable...
k

'15 Goals:

Any weapon can be used against you, the trick is that once you feel your are in a dangerious position you need to act and act fast. Mace is not effective on about 25% of the people and if the guy is high or drunk the the effectiveness really falls through the floor. I was s Military Cop and learned that lesson the hard way I had to tackle a drunk and then deal with being up close to him soaked in mace. It DOES effect me.
What the carry laws like where you live? A ladies 9mm or a 40 Cal Semi will knock a guy off his feet and force him to be nice and gentle until the cops and morg guys come to haul off the remains. I know that seems rather drastic but it is better than........ well lets just not go there OK?
BTW I give the same advice to my wife! Learn to shoot center mass and fire until it stops. Then tell the cop that he came at you and scared the crap out of you, you yelled stop and he must not have because the weapon is empty and he's dead! And no matter what that is ALL you remember!!
It is a shame our system as come to the point where your question is even thought about let alone asked and even more shameful that the above advise needs to be honestly given!

To paraphrase an old poster: Today is the first day of the rest of your training. It doesn’t matter where you started or how far you’ve come. Today is the day. Your training didn’t start 6 weeks ago. Your training started the last time you hit the road. John “the Penguin” Bingham Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you're standing outside the fire

I think carrying a gun while you're running is a horrible idea! No offense meant, Straflight, but merely having a gun around your house dramatically increases your chances of being killed with a gun. And unless you're highly trained in its use AND ARE WILLING TO KILL SOMEONE having it on you when you're scared and/or being threatened just makes it that much more dangerous for you. Someone can run up and stab you with a knife from 10 feet away much much faster than most people could decide to bring out their gun and even just reach for it. Much less get it out, remember to take off the safety, aim, and make the decision whether or not to fire! You'd have to run with it loaded, safety off, and in your hand... not a very safe thing to do!
There are better ways to protect yourself. A couple of nice big german shepards is a good idea. Changing your running route is a good idea. If you see him again, getting the liscence plate # and giving it to the police is a good idea. Making sure your running pattern is not predictable (like not always being there at 8:00 on Tuesdays...) is a good idea. But having a running partner is probably your best bet. I know there are runners in your area because you went to that 5K and there were runners there! Somebody in that huge group of peope is surely part of a running group! Why not check out something like http://www.runmichigan.com/links/list/cl and see if there's someone you can hook up with?
Janell

I keep hearing that! But if you look into the actual numbers instead ot the crap the media and the libs spoon feed the plebs you'll find it pure BS. No! Check that, as BS is useful when applied to lawns and corn fields.
BTW while stationd in Monatana we had a Martial Arts Black Belt in our Sqd that said from 15 he could kick my 45 out of my hand before I could draw and fire. So I challenged him on it. Put a flak jacket on him loaded a blank paced off 15 feet then someone called ready set go. He took half a step before the red wax hit him square over his heart. All he said daaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
But then I learned to shoot from a very very young age and one of my teachers was the 1932 Olympic Gold Medalist
The thing you are completely correct on, is being able when and if needed is to shoot to kill without thinking about it!! And until the need comes you will never know. Thank God that as a Mil Cop and needing to draw I never had to take that next step!! BTW I always, after such times stank to high heaven because of teh fear it always brought on!
And I don't take offense! Honest! Some people just can't abide firearms and others have no busisness being around them for any reason. Sadly as a Mil and DoD Cop I worked with several of them at one time or another! Not a chance in hell Ids ever take a job as a Range Instructor!!
Please don't take offense over the start of this response either!! It is just that I KNOW the correct numbers AND the number of actual times a firearm is used legally in self defense. If teh number most often quoted in the media, 47 times more likely to kill yourself or a family membe,r were true then America would be de populated in short order, as in 94,000,000 deaths a year instead of the actual 11,500 average BTW teh acidental death rate has without fail declined each year since the early 1970s
Can you tell I am one of those evil NRA Members? It is one of the reasons my folks have little to do with me! You see on this issue I re registored GOP and my folks hate it! Then there is my tax bill and I started Gold prospecting and the dems want to stop that too and then there is hunting and fishing and the BS on global warming and on and on and on.
OK I am off my soapbox now!! I promise!

To paraphrase an old poster: Today is the first day of the rest of your training. It doesn’t matter where you started or how far you’ve come. Today is the day. Your training didn’t start 6 weeks ago. Your training started the last time you hit the road. John “the Penguin” Bingham Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you're standing outside the fire

Okay, Starflight. Next time you've got someone around to try this one, I highly suggest it. I've seen it in demo'd before - get someone with a fake knife (a stick will do) and have them stand about ten feet away from you. At some signal they dash up and attempt to "knife" you. Most people can cover 10 feet in about a second to a second and a half - even yours truly who doesn't move much faster than the proverbial snail. How long do you think it would take an UNTRAINED person to decide 1) that they are in enough danger to be willing to fire a weapon, 2) that now would be a good time to draw the weapon, 3) actually draw it (fumbling with any straps and such ) 4) aim at a moving target, and 5) fire (assuming they have enough stopping power in that one shot and they don't just wing the guy)? Add in there the half second that someone will often freeze just out of sheer terror, and it's a recipie for disaster. Regardless of my stance on the NRA, untrained people have no business carrying firearms while out on a run for "self protection." It's more a danger to them than any potential bad guys. I don't see how you could possibly think it's a good idea to tell someone you've never met that because they thought they were being followed while on a run that they should carry a gun while out running! In fact, I'm at a loss for words to tell you just how bad of an idea I think that is! Let me just sum it up - I STILL think it's a HORRIBLE idea!
Zoom-zoom - you'll have to make up your own mind on that, of course, but if you're looking for a more aggressive form of self defense than just deterrants by finding running partners, I'd suggest contacting your local police station and finding out about some local self-defense seminars. Lots of places offer free or low-cost self-defense classes for women. Some of them are pretty good, too.

I really would love to start a group--how would I even go about doing that? I fear that if I posted flyers around that it could attract the very sort of people I am trying to avoid, unfortunately. k

Try something like this: Set up a second e-mail (eg, zoomrunner@aol.com, or yahoo, etc) account. It won't cost you anything. Then, if you want, post a flyer at a local fitness center, or whereever inviting those interested in running with a group to contact you at the e-mail address you have set up. They don't need to know your name, or anything else about you. If enough respond, you can then set up a time when all meet together at a set location that is public. On your flyer you can put the distance and pace the group will be running (but not the course). It may be slow at first, but over time it can build up. We did this about a year ago, and now have about 10 that show up every Saturday for a long run together. In fact, there's enough variety that there is a distance and pace for nearly everyone.
You can also do a google search for a local track club--nearly every city has one. They often set up group runs. Or, you can come to Las Vegas on vacation and join us for a run .

Don, I really like your suggestion, and I will check the runmichigan site, Janell--I hadn't really even looked for a resource like that, but that's a great idea.
I know there is a running club not terribly far from me, but they only run once/week and it's a group of very fast marathoners, so I would still likely be running alone. I love the idea of getting together with more local people (the gal who won that recent 5k was actually from my town--but her pace would be just a teensy bit much for me, LOL).
The gun thing isn't an option I would consider. I have a willful and resourceful 5.5 year old son that I don't think I would be able to keep something like that from--he's just WAY too smart and too sneaky, unfortunately. I'm still wishing I could carry a tazer, though, LOL! And too bad a bow and arrow would be cumbersome--I have some seriously good aim with that device (too bad I don't hunt, huh?)!
I am definitely going to make a point of mixing up my routes more, too. I try not to do the same route consecutive times and as much as I like that route I did yesterday, it's just not feeling particularly safe.
k

'15 Goals:

I'm still wishing I could carry a tazer, though, LOL! And too bad a bow and arrow would be cumbersome--I have some seriously good aim with that device (too bad I don't hunt, huh?)!

Reminds me of the earlier discussion about the guy running in bamboo armor!
And don't give up on the running groups. You're a good bit faster than I am and (even) I was able to find two people running about my speed here in Raleigh. They weren't the first people I approached in the group, but the second lady I talked to directed me to those two ladies and it was a lot of fun having someone to go with! Later on a fourth joined us, though she quickly got too fast for us and had to move on to a different group. Point is, ask around. You never know until you try!

Zoom, I am wondering why a tazer is out for you, is it a state law against non Law Enforcement types carrying them?
Your 5 year old sounds a lot like my youngest when she as growing up. She was a terror and completley fearless! I used to think she could go to Alaska grab a Griz by the ear and drag it home scaring the bear so bad that he never once would think of smacking her. But I never worried about her and my firearms, EVER. I used to take both my kids hunting and seeing that dead is really dead instilled a rock soild respect for firearms!
She now has two children of her own, a daugter 7, and a brand new son born last week. She tells me that she is now being paid back for being such and pain in the backside when she was little. I just smile and nod.
Wingz, as in all things training training and more training! Always and forever TRAINING. And it is true that few could pass your example. One of the reasons that Black Belt couldn't touch me is that I have had lots for training. I was either a Military or DoD Cop for 19 years (before becoming an Accounting Tech) and enjoy shooting and practice and all the training that goes with it.

To paraphrase an old poster: Today is the first day of the rest of your training. It doesn’t matter where you started or how far you’ve come. Today is the day. Your training didn’t start 6 weeks ago. Your training started the last time you hit the road. John “the Penguin” Bingham Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you're standing outside the fire

You know, I never really looked into a tazer, I just assumed they wouldn't be legal for anyone not in law enforcement to carry...hmmm....
Yeah, I am getting paid-back for being a difficult child, myself...though my mom says that Dane is more nutso than I was--scary!
Janell, I think I am going to give setting up a local running group a try. Unfortunately I don't know all that many people around here (VERY insular small town and even though we have been here 6 years it's really hard to make friends--I have talked to other transplants in the same boat), but maybe our insurance agent knows people who are into running. It's a small, local agency and they know their clients well. I'm thinking about putting up flyers with just an e-mail contact, too, as Don had suggested.
k