Well, as I said before...if we can't sign anyone from the 2nd to 5th round then it was a very, very stupid pick as you'd blow 200 to 600k off your budget...and when your budget is at 4.58mil, that's a lot of money

It would have been better to get a 100k guy you'd normally draft in round 20 as this guy even opens up budget instead of burning it...

The only scenario I see is that Baker was drafted as insurance for 1 of the 3 guys drafted in front of him as blowing 235k would be "acceptable"....3 HS and now JC sure is putting the pressure on the specs and they'll probably end up with less than what they had hoped for competing with each other to fit under the budget...it'll be "take it or leave it" style, I guess

Sign Wendle for super-cheap and have money to sign picks 2-5. In the new world order, that seems to be how the system works. Wendle is 22 and has no bargaining power. If he waits to go in the 2013 draft, at age 23, he will not do any better then what the Tribe can lowball him in 2012.

And he probably is not a completely wasted pick, He probably has about a 1 in 75 chance of becoming a productive major league player. Good system filler for the next four years.

The Tribe has the ability of going over the allotment by 4.9% without inciting a penalty or $228,000 overage. That's actually a decent amount. That in addition to the slot of $235 K may get an arm like Dylan Baker to sign. $450 K may be hard to pass on.

Tondo wrote:Schubert-McAdams...another high upside HSler, born in 1995 according to PG....Tony has him as a 1994 though

Braves take another one of my sleepers in Kent State Sr David Starn

Haven't seen Schubert play (East Cobb Yankees) but I plan to. They are playing right now but I just got home from East Cobb where my son was playing. From what I can tell, he played for Dye's brother with the Atlanta Blue Jays at one point and Chet Lemon's Juice in another season (looks like a hired gun with his resume).

ohioteamz wrote:The Juice is out of our area, and I'll be damned if you can't ever seem to find out about a tryout. My guess is they pluck some hired guns all the time. What team is your son on?

17U ECB Dodgers.....plays RF and leads off (he's my step-son)...Is also the Closer.

Which PG WWBA are you in, 17U or 18U? We are a 17U team but didn't make it into the 17U, so we are in the 18U. CFBL Elite Prospects Red here. We went 3-1 down at Ft. Myers, but not sure if we have the arms to break through to the championship rounds. Mine is 1B and cleanup hitter. Beat some GA. team pretty handily but I don't know if they were very good.

All in all it looks like a solid draft. I've gotten over the Naquin pick. It still wouldn't have been my choice, but for some reason I get this Chisenhall feeling. I remember a lot of people scratching their heads at that one as well and look how that turned out. If Naquin can add some pop to his bat, he'd be a real addition to our lineup.

ohioteamz wrote:The Juice is out of our area, and I'll be damned if you can't ever seem to find out about a tryout. My guess is they pluck some hired guns all the time. What team is your son on?

17U ECB Dodgers.....plays RF and leads off (he's my step-son)...Is also the Closer.

Which PG WWBA are you in, 17U or 18U? We are a 17U team but didn't make it into the 17U, so we are in the 18U. CFBL Elite Prospects Red here. We went 3-1 down at Ft. Myers, but not sure if we have the arms to break through to the championship rounds. Mine is 1B and cleanup hitter. Beat some GA. team pretty handily but I don't know if they were very good.

we are just in the 17U. BCS (the other PG) is starting this week. Do you remember which team? Never mind...I see it was Tek9. Mostly a Gwinnett County team....I don't recognize any of the guys on that roster but a couple of the HS (the players attend) are solid but Team Gwinnett is the top team from that county. Some guys play for Team Georgia and East Cobb.

We just got back from the Nashville Showcase where we went 3-1.

Last edited by daingean on Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

daingean wrote:we are just in the 17U. BCS (the other PG) is starting this week. Do you remember which team?

We just got back from the Nashville Showcase where we went 3-1.

As far as the WWBA in July I've heard the 17U is more heavily scouted so really that's better for your kid, but since we are thinking JUCO right now, it doesn't really matter which one, just looking forward to it. The team we beat from Ga. was Tek9.

JP_Frost wrote:All in all it looks like a solid draft. I've gotten over the Naquin pick. It still wouldn't have been my choice, but for some reason I get this Chisenhall feeling. I remember a lot of people scratching their heads at that one as well and look how that turned out. If Naquin can add some pop to his bat, he'd be a real addition to our lineup.

Hopefully you're right on the Chiz thing in the sense that many were scratching their heads on the pick and it turned out well (or looks like it will). Think it's a totally different situation though as Chiz was a great HS talent that fell cause of some bad decisions in college, which forced him to JUCO and slightly falling under the radar. Whereas Naquin was a solid, yet unspectacular college bat from a big program who was drafted higher than most. Think it's more like Kipnis even though Kip was a high 2nd round guy. Either way you look at it, hopefully it works out

I've been trying to think of a major league comp for Mitchell Brown but it's tough! A 6'1" RHP with a very nice curveball from a relatively high 3/4 slot. He's got a nice arm action, too. I guess Ben Sheets comes to mind, but Sheets came from much more over the top than Brown (it was a true downer curve) -- their deliveries are different. Regardless, Brown is a nice pitching prospect. Its a stretch to call this guy a front of the rotation type of prospect, but I can see a solid 3 starter if he develops well and that's certainly good. Prospectively a good 2 if he's got very good command of his stuff, but thats kind of optimistic at this point. Brown probably would have gone late 1st if he were 6'4". Like Dillon Howard, Brown's delivery looks pretty polished so it doesn't look like there is a ton of work to do on him for a high school guy, although he does twirl off the mound too much.

Lovegrove is a nice projectable arm. Just based off his videos, I don't think this is a guy that should command too much money -- 3rd round looks about right for him. The guy needs to make some delivery alterations to enhance his stuff and you never know if a guy is going to be able to command his pitches with a more advanced delivery. If you get half a dozen Lovegrove's and Jake Sisco's, you'll end up with one really nice 2 or 3 starter in the major leagues.

This guy McClure -- I don't know what to think of him. I never even heard of him and just going off his videos, he looks like a high ceiling guy. I mean, if this guy has a good bat, he should totally go to college to get more exposure. If he goes to Arkansas and play well against SEC competition, he could go in the top 10 overall of the draft. Teams love college position prospects and it's rare to get one with the kind of upside McClure has. He looks great in a short clips -- I gotta think there is some stuff to not like the more you see of him considering that he fell to the fourth round, but a very interesting draft pick for sure.

Dylan Baker looks like an interesting arm. I like the way he keeps good downward leverage in his delivery. The arm action in the back is quite long, leaving for little deception (ex-Indian Tim Drew had problems with this), but if the reports on his velocity are true, he's got plenty of stuff to compensate for that. Like Rocky, I think he's an impressive arm with potential.

All that being said, the odds are probably against the Indians signing all five of their first five round picks. I have no insight, but I think Naquin, Brown and Lovegrove will sign (Naquin and Lovegrove being the easiest signs based purely on talent -- I don't know Lovegrove's intentions of going to college), thus leaving the Indians to walk away with hopefully at least one of McClure and Baker. We shall see.

OhioBaseball wrote:Good second day by the Indians following a questionable first day.

I've been trying to think of a major league comp for Mitchell Brown but it's tough! A 6'1" RHP with a very nice curveball from a relatively high 3/4 slot. He's got a nice arm action, too. I guess Ben Sheets comes to mind, but Sheets came from much more over the top than Brown (it was a true downer curve) -- their deliveries are different. Regardless, Brown is a nice pitching prospect. Its a stretch to call this guy a front of the rotation type of prospect, but I can see a solid 3 starter if he develops well and that's certainly good. Prospectively a good 2 if he's got very good command of his stuff, but thats kind of optimistic at this point. Brown probably would have gone late 1st if he were 6'4". Like Dillon Howard, Brown's delivery looks pretty polished so it doesn't look like there is a ton of work to do on him for a high school guy, although he does twirl off the mound too much.

Lovegrove is a nice projectable arm. Just based off his videos, I don't think this is a guy that should command too much money -- 3rd round looks about right for him. The guy needs to make some delivery alterations to enhance his stuff and you never know if a guy is going to be able to command his pitches with a more advanced delivery. If you get half a dozen Lovegrove's and Jake Sisco's, you'll end up with one really nice 2 or 3 starter in the major leagues.

This guy McClure -- I don't know what to think of him. I never even heard of him and just going off his videos, he looks like a high ceiling guy. I mean, if this guy has a good bat, he should totally go to college to get more exposure. If he goes to Arkansas and play well against SEC competition, he could go in the top 10 overall of the draft. Teams love college position prospects and it's rare to get one with the kind of upside McClure has. He looks great in a short clips -- I gotta think there is some stuff to not like the more you see of him considering that he fell to the fourth round, but a very interesting draft pick for sure.

Dylan Baker looks like an interesting arm. I like the way he keeps good downward leverage in his delivery. The arm action in the back is quite long, leaving for little deception (ex-Indian Tim Drew had problems with this), but if the reports on his velocity are true, he's got plenty of stuff to compensate for that. Like Rocky, I think he's an impressive arm with potential.

All that being said, the odds are probably against the Indians signing all five of their first five round picks. I have no insight, but I think Naquin, Brown and Lovegrove will sign (Naquin and Lovegrove being the easiest signs based purely on talent -- I don't know Lovegrove's intentions of going to college), thus leaving the Indians to walk away with hopefully at least one of McClure and Baker. We shall see.

In terms of body type and delivery, the guy I like comparing Brown to is a young Jeremy Hellickson. Midwestern guy who is a little bit smaller than most guys, but an easy delivery that is repeatable and natural motion.

Lovegrove (and his family) I got to know very well during the 2010 Team USA trials when I was working for them. He's so wiry it looks like he could add 20 pounds of muscle and it's only going to do him well. From a makeup standpoint this kid is absolutely OFF the charts. Humble, respectful and just so adept at learning from the coaches I was very impressed. He didn't have the best week at trials and didn't make the squad, but I came away so impressed.

Also Tony touched on the fact he created this charity, the Going to Bat Foundation, which acquires old baseball equipment for the needy.

McClure is the guy I'm most excited to see play. The bat speed in the videos is awesome, just awesome. Looks like he's got a solid lower half which could develop some serious power as he matures.

I don't think I've said this in a while with the Indians drafts, but there is a ton of helium in some of these picks and they could really have a couple guys who turn out to be pretty damn good prospects.

I think basically every kid drafted in the first 10 rounds will be signed. The reason for it is that it's a complete waste if you don't sign them, so you'd have to be sure before you draft them. I think the Tribe has a pretty good handle on what these kids were looking for and therefore picked a couple of easy/below slot players to go overslot on these higher upside HS'ers. It would really surprise and upset me if they failed to sign them all. Unlike years before, you have to sign who you draft within the first 10 rounds.

For all the BS people have been spewing about the 1st pick and whatnot, the Indians have had a really solid draft thus far. A Polished bat and some young, high upside arms. A far cry from what they used to do just five years ago. What's not to like?

PEngle39 wrote:For all the BS people have been spewing about the 1st pick and whatnot, the Indians have had a really solid draft thus far. A Polished bat and some young, high upside arms. A far cry from what they used to do just five years ago. What's not to like?

It's not BS.. If an opportunity to acquire a potential front of the rotation starter is passed up by the club.. why is that "spewing BS?". It had nothing to do with Tyler Naquin and his ability.. Naquin is a lot like Jason Kipnis or Toby Harrah in many ways..he's a dirt bag.. would sleep in the dugout if you let him.. and never has a clean uniform.. but, he's not a FOR..

As far as day two of the draft.. D'vone McClure stands out as a high helium guy... Nelson "ROLLIE-POLLIE" Rodriguez is a 17 year old fat body that hails from the same school Manny Ramirez is from.. The Indians need to sign R-P as he's gonna have a chip on his shoulder from being taken so late in the draft..

The pitchers taken: Brown, Lovegrove, and Baker really don't inspire.. Brown seems a bit smallish, Lovegrove has good stuff but is a bit off mechanically and Baker has a fastball and not much else.. One thing each of these guys to have in common is all three have upside that has yet to be revealed..

TheWord wrote:In terms of body type and delivery, the guy I like comparing Brown to is a young Jeremy Hellickson. Midwestern guy who is a little bit smaller than most guys, but an easy delivery that is repeatable and natural motion.

Lovegrove (and his family) I got to know very well during the 2010 Team USA trials when I was working for them. He's so wiry it looks like he could add 20 pounds of muscle and it's only going to do him well. From a makeup standpoint this kid is absolutely OFF the charts. Humble, respectful and just so adept at learning from the coaches I was very impressed. He didn't have the best week at trials and didn't make the squad, but I came away so impressed.

Also Tony touched on the fact he created this charity, the Going to Bat Foundation, which acquires old baseball equipment for the needy.

McClure is the guy I'm most excited to see play. The bat speed in the videos is awesome, just awesome. Looks like he's got a solid lower half which could develop some serious power as he matures.

I don't think I've said this in a while with the Indians drafts, but there is a ton of helium in some of these picks and they could really have a couple guys who turn out to be pretty damn good prospects.

Jeremy Hellickson is a good comparison; I thought of it as well, but I think there are some modest differences. Also on Hellickson, as you mentioned...an Iowa guy vs. Brown from Minnesota (both cold weather) -- Hellickson is probably the closest comp in MLB today. Nice job

If Brown ends up having the pitchability of Hellickson, watch out b/c I don't think Hellickson has the type of curveball (swing and miss type) that Brown appears to have.

I agree; the guys the Indians took from the 2nd round to 5th round all have potential to be impact major league talents, which is great. (Before someone jumps on me, Naquin has impact ability, too, but its a bit underwhelming for a mid 1st rounder)

Interesting BA article on how other teams went college seniors in 2-10 but took risks on high level players in 11+ due to $100,000 cushion. I said it before when rules came out that it would take some creativity to benefit from new rules as 150,000 in round 10 and 50,000 in round 11 costs 150,000 to cap. But, 50,000 in round 10 and 150,000 in round 11 costs 100,000 to cap. Seems Indians did a contrarian philosophy - HS in the middle and college 11 & 12. See how it works.

This year rules killed Indians as the FA comp rules stilled packed supplemental 1st. Yet, next year, things should be a bit better with the small team lottery picks. The key is to get the front office to apply money ball type concepts on the draft. The rules change from spending money on players to more on scouting and $ guys.

Last edited by petes999 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Overall day 2 was good...you can't just go BPA with every pick working with a restricted budget...people seem to forget that...for every over-slot guy you gamble on (probably M.Brown and McClure) you have to take someone who's willing to sign under slot money (Naquin and Wendle/Lee) to make it all work out....I think Grant played the new draft well and went with a good mix of quality and quantity...and I agree with JP that it'd be stupid to NOT sign anyone of your Top 10 picks...can't do that anymore, it'd be a stupid waste of resources, both budget and player

Here's my sleeper/wishlist for day 3....HS and JC players are pretty much prohibitive at this point and are probably "punt" picks since no team will be able to sign all 40 selections (25 max I guess, 20 minimum)...that said, I expect a lot of JC specs getting picked hoping to sign 1 or 2 of them on the cheap

Also, College JRs could also be tougher signings than before since you might still get drafted in the Top 10 rounds as a Sr in this new draft, but if I was 1 of them I would look closely for what they sign for this draft (under slot anyway)....100k could still be more or as much as most Sr will get

I'll start with a copy/paste from the leftovers of my original sleeper arms post (we got Lee in round 9 off that list):

Dane Quist, LHP, UC Davis....small lefty, who had a great SR year, ranked 44th College spec in Cali by PG, not the performance consistency I prefer but worth a 15th to 25th rounder considering his steady K:BB ratio improvements

Eddie Orozco, RHP, UC Riverside....another Senior from the state of California, a year older than most SR (23) due to redshirt season, was drafted out of HS in 2007, so might be a nice late round pick

Eric Erickson, LHP, Miami, Fl....small lefty, already drafted in 06 and 09, still just a Jr due to redshirts, but already 24yo, might want to start pro career after all and could be nice value in late rounds...another Tomlin-alert (pitchability, great ratios)

Ross Hammonds, RHP, Western Kentucky....small SR, reliever spec only with very nice ratios...the knd of guy I fill out a roster with in rounds 30-40

Andrew Barbosa, LHP, South Florida....huge SR lefty (6'8), was drafted in 15th round in 2010 draft, is already 24yo and be 25 at the start of next season, PG has him as 38th College spec in Florida...Indians haven't drafted a LHP yet and both he and Erickson could and should be very quick movers

on to the new specs:

Pat Christensen, RHP, Seton Hall...Jr Closer, great performance consistency for 3 seasons...seems to miss some speed but he misses bats

R.C. Orlan, RHP, North Carolina....Jr relief pitching spec, was a Top 10 rounder for PG, could be a tougher signing but well worth it if he takes 100k

Trenton Moses, 3B, SE Missouri St.....crushed OVC pitching to the tune of 30 HRs, .400BA, ~.515OBP, ~.710SLG, ~ 1.220 OPS, 70:59 BB:K ratio the past 2 years, is a SR and worth a shot at this point, boom or bust

Kenton Parmley, SS, SE Missouri St....granted, it's the OVC again, but he has hit there consistently for 4 seasons and is a MIF...

Jordan Steranka, 1B/3B, Penn St.....drafted in the 30th round last draft as a Jr but didn't sign...had an even better Sr season with more power...worth a shot

Sam Eberle, C/3B, Jacksonville St....similar to Parmley as he plays a premium position, is a easy Sr sign, and has hit in the OVC...worth a late round flyer

Andrew Triggs, RHP, USC...drafted in the 24th round as a SO by the Indians, and then in round 21 last draft by the Giants, now a SR....has started and produced consistently for 4 years at USC ERA, from 3.5 to 3.9 every season with solid ratios

Michael Palazzone, RHP, Georgia...another re-draft option, was drafted in last 3 drafts, 2010 by Indians, now a Sr, inconsistent career as a starter in the SEC, maybe a BP convert

Alex Keudell, RHP, Oregon...produced the past 2 seasons in the Pac 10 (ERA under 3, decent ratios), although he is a Sr I'm surprised he's still available

Matt Flemer, RHP, California...Sr with outstanding control (WHIP around 1 last 2 seasons), but doesn't strike out much as a starter (5.3 K/9), was a reliever before and had much better strikeout ratios, so maybe a BP conversion...either way seems like really good value at this point...was drafted in the 19th round last draft

Ryan Mathews, OF, NCST....out of nowhere Sr that hit for power in the ACC....power gamble

Mitchell Garver, C, New Mexico....was projected to go Top 10, could stay for Sr season now after breakout Jr season and improve his draft stock...SR catchers are always well liked on draft day

Brandon Bayardi, OF, UNLV....here's a sleeper bat...was projected to go Top 10, very consistent performer the past 3 season in the MWC (OPS over 1.000), but no real power or speed tool probably hurt him

Ross Heffley, 2B, Western Carolina...another small school bat I like, plays MIF and is a Sr too, very consistent bat in the SoCon

Mike McQuillan, 2B, Iowa...another very late round hopeful to fill out a Minor League depth chart

Yeah, not too happy with the first 3 picks so far...Penny is a wild thrower it seems and Head is a dime a dozen small school reliever who could have been drafted in rounds 35 to 40...you can get those types as UDFAs...Calico is an obvious punt pick as I don't see him signing, he's a handcuff for Schubert/Hambrick and I'm ok with that

Meanwhile J.Henry, Heffley, Triggs, Turley all gone....Triggs to the Royals and Turley to Tigers of course

O'Connel and Calica/Booth are most probably "only" handcuffs for Schubert and Hamrick...I'd say we sign "maybe" 1 among them and that's ok, can't sign them all

Like the last 2 picks Nicholas is an older JC guy that may be willing to start his pro career and Sever had a breakout Jr season with the bat, know nothing about his Defense though...he had better stats than Patrick Wisdom in the same league

Anybody else wondering that we haven't drafted a LHP yet?

Another RHP in round 22, James Stokes from Elon...crap pick...a small school reliever with more walks than Ks and a WHIP over 2....might as well forfeit the pick. Those are the kind of selections I will never get...some overanxious scout outsmarting himself I guess