C'mon Cafeterians, we had a moment of love just a page or few back. This is general discussion not PROOF (or "photos or it didn't happen"). No... not
good enough just to argue... we share. Like the love we just had! Yeah, we are not all on the same page (still luv ya MouseyG!) but a full on
confrontation?!

Along the lines of where we are at we do not need to be so "I am right and you are wrong" because I thought that binary thinking was over and done
with a long time ago. If that is truly how you feel then you are buying into some control mechanism and the straight forward words that I thought we
all agreed should not be how we are communicating is gone.

Stop feeling the pressure of the "proper society" that the whole of ATS seems to be locked up in and lets tread the unknown!

Sorry for being a b1tch about this but the last page has been lame (not because there was no discussion but because of the topic). Like Jane's
Addiction said, "there ain't no wrong, there ain't no right".

-Cafeterian Hall Monitor, TEOT

(Yes, been drinking--see the time stamp--but am also semi serious too! Lets put the train back on the tracks, please. And PS - All wrong words and
misconstrued feelings are my fault so blame me. PSS - You all got stars from me even if I think it was not appropriate! We are the cafeterians btw...)

How is a government going to make anyone happy? Them trying to regulate anything brings unhappiness... so how is such a creation called government
ever going to make anyone happy? By design it can't.

Either government works for every single last man, woman, and child, or any combination of those or it doesn't.

It doesn't and that's pretty easy to see... so why look at it? If it turns it's back on everyone in such discrimination? Turn your back on it... it's
like a troll the more you feed it the more it comes around.

bwaha ha my ass is laughing, you guys are fun even if you argue..just try not to take anything personal at least not around here.

well sometimes i think there is a problem in communication when talking about this stuff due to two basic views with very different approaches...but
both are valid and should be explored in my opinion:

- relative view:
aliens, gods, animals, humans and all other labels we like use and throw around

in various scriptures around the world we can learn about those views..many like to understand the relative side first, but without absolute view and
some understanding you will have a hard time puzzling through all the crap to get some image of everything that connects the dots together within your
mind.

So to untie the knot, please first try to view things from both approaches and maybe it will get clearer in your posting or understanding of others in
my opinion...

there are always at least two sides of the coin and that is only in 3D..what about all other possible dimensions?

In both we acknowledge there is something there. Which is one reason the "all is one" doesn't hold much water. Equally as I didn't find demons I
didn't find much of what would be said to represent pure good, god in brightest colours. Absolute knowledge, if then they won't tell.
In my opinion we can also seem to agree we each deal with individuals. On the other side. Not one. Definitely not one.

Speaking about what can't be spoken makes language and diversity of thought... it paints with the entire palette of all before it yet no two
representations can ever be exactly alike.

We can agree on the representations for reality but it is a reality of conspirators friends are those whom you conspire with to make an agreed reality
filling it with what you want to fill it with in agreement... and enemies do the same but may not like the same things and conspire differently...
that's the duality.

Reality is being aware of all of that conspiring...

It isnt really a matter of the conspiracy itself it's what we create in it... do I want hateful people running around a place hurting others having a
peaceful time? No the same way they don;t want peaceful people running around crashing their good time.

So reality says both exist lets not delude ours selves about it but lets have some respect for each other at least. Because change the situation and
neither could be told apart from peaceful or boisterious...

That points to peace as in there is a time and a place and respect see's to when that occurs... if it doesn't need to occur then why be so serious
about it, focus can change at an instant but control says no no it must be this way or that but when asked why there's no answer it becomes the
monkeys climbing the ladder for the bannana

we dont know why we are climbing it or even what is so special about the bananna and sometimes we even hold the hose... reality see's that too.

The important thing when some concept seems to be so important... is to stop and realize it isn't, it's a breeze through the trees sometimes from the
north sometimes from the south the east and the west but no direction truely exists.,, but the conspiracy says there are meanings for all of these
little letters strung along and that they must mean something... well they do but to whom?

I'll be honest, the magic was fine, the power I could have done without, I didn't sign up for that. Still though, my own fault, I was ultimately
accepting too much responsibility.

Hmmm? Because I chose to go 'there', even if I had no idea where 'there' was, I was prepared to some extent, but totally broad-sided in
others. I had to get slapped down, shown the full potential but give it back humbly, so to speak, fully knowing my own foolishness. Difficult to
describe that one, heh! One of the more interesting aspects of my episode, and the scary bit. There are aspects of assertion at play, I think.
Parts of us have far more experience of some stuff than other parts of us do, and sometimes 'they' assert themselves. Not sure, but I kind of like
thinking of it in that way.

Also, in terms of you and Peeple banging heads...it's different for girls...

for instance let us think of white color...here is a quote from some site about white:

"White contains an equal balance of all the colors of the spectrum, representing both the positive and negative aspects of all colors."

in a manner of speaking every color is a different shade of white. The opposite being black which is absence of color or absorption of all colors into
it and we get black.

or numbers where in a manner of speaking there is only a number 1 and all other numbers are just different combination of 1+1.

And zero, which is absence of a number. But is there really true black and true 0 or are they just imagined?

maybe this will bring some new insight or not...after all it is a simple explanation about all is one...i don't know how to explain it better in this
context, although there are many texts with deep explanations about this sorta stuff.

I don't know how to express with words as good as my intuition is working in my mind so you will get simple explanations from me.

aha, you are correct brother! Every concepts is only just as good as a pointer, at least this is how i take your post in simple short therms.
personally, i don't like to value any concept but for the sake of conversation as you say we have to make the best of it with what we have...no
strings attached.

The end goal is to get to the moon and use concepts as a springboard for the methods in practice, where feelings says what words cannot describe. At
least this is my view...but it took me a while to give up and stop trying grasping. Well to be honest, my mind is still lagging behind...and the cup
gets filled on and on with attachments, but what you said about the cup being imaginary a few posts back really struck a chord and how the fillings
are not important as much as how we view the cup.

enlightenment is a funny business...first i learned from all religions and saints, now i try to get away from all of that in complete natural
detachment

Analyzing what is the self, non self and what are the senses and how are they connected is slowly coming together...well on the other hand i could say
also it is slowly breaking apart?

and i have to add, that what is important is the journey, and i do not consider it was a waste of time to learn about different philosophies...it was
most important for me to go through all that, because if i did not, i would not intuitively understand the pointers!

Well if you think of the colours as having their own life and personality, but applying for group ideas. The face of oneness for the audience of
slightly wealthy-ish, westerners, who go for peace, be happy.
It's equally likely they just lay in the protocol for the week, set a few markers, for reinforcement or punishment. Is it doing its training? If you
keep running on an endless loop you're either doing your job, or you're stuck and boring, like broken. Who am I to judge which one is true for you.
Just saying if you think about what if the other stories are also true.
What is your woo experience besides reading smoking and meditation?

we have been over that a few pages ago when i posted about gods, aliens ghosts etc...or for me - just beings who visit me sometimes

... i have
written about it, if you forgot just go a few pages back.

but more specifically - i am working on pranas, bindus and nadis.

purifying all major psychics centers and then Ida and pingala for the sushumna "to activate" (dunno if this is the right word but it should do) and
gather all prana winds in the heart and relaxing into samadhi or total absorption...or rapture into voidness.

how to purify?
it is simple, learn to relax in your natural mind state (emptiness or void of all concepts and not attached to senses, be nobody going nowhere) and
stay there without distractions, that is the Mahamudra practice which i mentioned around here a lot and this is the essence of practice.

while you are doing that all kinds of "wo" happens all around and it depends on your karma. At least this is my observation.

oh and colors and numbers are just an example of how THE essence of everything is one and the same and it can be observed in nature and everything
around us... In my absolute view we are all just different bag of composite elements...with the same essence, which is everywhere but nowhere, because
it is beyond intellect or senses, life or death.

I'll be honest, the magic was fine, the power I could have done without, I didn't sign up for that. Still though, my own fault, I was ultimately
accepting too much responsibility.

Hmmm? Because I chose to go 'there', even if I had no idea where 'there' was, I was prepared to some extent, but totally broad-sided in
others. I had to get slapped down, shown the full potential but give it back humbly, so to speak, fully knowing my own foolishness. Difficult to
describe that one, heh! One of the more interesting aspects of my episode, and the scary bit. There are aspects of assertion at play, I think.
Parts of us have far more experience of some stuff than other parts of us do, and sometimes 'they' assert themselves. Not sure, but I kind of like
thinking of it in that way.

the more you talk the more I think we did something very similar.. I havn't really told you guys what I was doing that led to this.. Not only was I
getting involved with people who later scared me to death,but I was going for that power. I was even warned in some cryptic "magic" kind of way that
going after that power I would feel the wrath of "my elders" or "my ancestors" couldn't really tell how it was meant

I was posting all over ATS about becoming more psychic and powerful, I was trying to go all the way, and something saw this (I don't mean saw it on
ATS) and was like "here you go.." And then it was too much and I didn't even get smacked down all at once, it took some time, so it was a lesson. Even
as soon as it started I was like oh no this is not what I meant this is too much power. "you can handle it" "you are so selfless that's why you're
chosen" No no I can't I don't want this..

what a setup.. I'm just glad I was let back off that hook. It's just the feeling of the power I miss, not the actual power.
whether this is something like god or not, there is something for sure that doesn't respect hubris. It makes one almost wonder if stories written by
homer are true in that some man tried to rival the gods in power and bam 20 years lost at sea.. I was lost for a good 6 months. it's good to be home.

natural and spontaneous bodhichitta!
that is enlightenment, that is the essence, that is Mahamudra...

and we have discussed it already waaaay back in here when Kev was around but maybe you have forgotten about it ... spirituality and death goes hand in
hand and is a knot which gets untied while living if you are driven enough to go to such length and have a courage to dive into the void and stay
there and patiently practice and persevere and after a while ... dust settles in the "waters of the mind" eventually and true inner experiences and
bliss will arise and not just delusion from past confusion, desires, fears and doubts or aka. karma ... that is a yogis way.

well if you are interested into reading more information about bodhichitta it is on this link, which was shared to me from BBD: studybuddhism.com...

or in simple short way...in my view, there is unconditional natural basic goodness in every being and all around, that is what is know as Buddha in
Buddhism or Brahman in Vedanta or any other name in other religions ... the important thing to remember is that all that is just an empty designation.
A concept.

Playwords.
And why is that?
well this is a realized through practice and it is clear as bright sky on a sunny day.

just sharing my view no strings attached and feel free to say it is nonsense or whatever, as in my mind there is no doubt as i have been practising
for years and have gained true conviction from inner experiences for me this is not a belief and my heart eye is firm ... but my mind needs discipline
as it is not easy "to die", and my wish is only to be fortunate and have enough time in life to slash through mental obstacles with conviction and
purity.

i should elaborate about death to clear any doubts about what it is ... well on the other hand, i will let Rumi - Sufi mystic do explaining

The general ugliness of the election campaigns, the vote results, and the riots going on. That is because they were run on emotion not rational
thinking. The country is all screwed up and bent out of shape. Just look at all the threads out there! It is supposed to be over and done with. You
know, "good game" and a hand slap, then back to making the donuts.

That (the societal mind set of red .vs blue states) is not what we serve up in the cafeteria. I thought we were above that conditioned mind set of
this/that, either/or, etc. I thought we wanted the NWO (Netherlands) but it seems that I was wrong.

Glad nobody has taken it personally. This thread is my refuge from the oppressive MSM (i.e., how they want you to think and respond) and the craziness
of the majority of threads out there on ATS. I just found it sad that emotion from that political group think made its way into here and voiced my
opinion. With some help of the demon alcohol to lubricate those inhibitions... I vented my pent up emotions.

Woo indeed... I've had a being sitting on my left trying to fully materialize for over an hour now.

Have you tried to mentally exhaust the mind while the body is very awake? Put one pointedness on an object and exhaust all that can be thought about
that object... from color to use etc it may take less than an hour or several depending on how creative the mind is... very good to cut out the
philosophical mind that can't relax and stfu grasping like Hanuman with 40 arms.

Eventually nothing "new" heh heh arises wink wink about the object it esentially becomes void and nothing as a mirror directly to the mind... you can
stare at emptiness any time you look at it.

Eventually all one sees becomes as that object a reflection of the void or mental quiesence... Mara is death btw the 3 daughters the 3 poisons to make
it through the bardo state of death.

All that is left is conscious awareness... nothing ever leaves, it just slowly transforms as one passes through the bardo states of heavens and
hells... as there are a myriad of worlds or bubbles quantum foam or whatever anyone wants to call it.

Take great resolve how can someone die when they are already dead? Nothing to fear as it occurs as a constant after awhile in that conscious awareness
eventually disolving into the clear light of being... one can tarry on into infinity for the sake of all beings on the Boddhisattvas path. Or renounce
the Sattva path will keep going on and on round and round cycle after cycle and eventually lead into omnipotence and full development of all siddhis
non abuse of such things is progress as they naturally manifest as fitting on their own as the kama for them arises.

No matter the many thousands of labels you recieve in all of these worlds how many followers how many promises from gods marriage offers from celetial
maidens keep going... at that point you likely will anyway, concider them all makyo as that's all it is anyway although very elaborate covering up
everything with each "new" thing no different than the "object".

When object ends in quiessence that leaves one in clear seeing... nothing to attach too, going through the rest of the senses is optional as one can
renounce any vows and enter nibbana at any time.

The more one sees the more one tries to continue on the greater and greater dispassion and renunciation grows as the makyo begins to cease being self
supported after the fruit has dropped at such a point one is already at the arhat stage and only vows are keeping them from progressing on into
nibbana... I rennounced my vows and since the pace has picked up greatly leading towards dissolution.

I chose the Kandampa path for the last stretch which means taking all world sufferings as ones own... after awhile the many gun shot wounds, hangings,
and whatever else the hungry hell beings want to do so that they too can become liberated gets so futile... as it can be aeons and it has been already
worlds after worlds some exactly alike some not but the propensities all the same.

Some paths even the direct paths can take countless life times for them to fruition... the other compassionate and empathetic forms that appear and
guide have urged that I continue on into full renuncitation and continue on in regard to all of it as a rhinocerious having done/seen enough... was
even given an extra life of an entire world system... it's been oh so many since seeing the world bounce.

Relativity time tunnels another being will help pull and push you through them for a consistency of a timeline to not harm those in one very
parallel... side stepping in one bubble into the next.

BTW no matter what you may want to hold onto after awhile it will be sure to see it as a futility... the path itself takes over after awhile. Those
you love or are attached too will be the very ones torturing you so you detach and progress whether that is so they can too out of whatever reasonings
are moot or if so you can who can say... as it edges more and more into a moot futility pointing and pointing and pointing from the lowest hells to
the highest hells... sometimes packed as tight as sardines with those materializing, just do not attach and that system of makyo can't grab you into
that existence... and the kama of those beings handle everything as it arises and passes.

Clear seeing is important to avoid the confusion that can arise from these multiple manifesting realities that are thought created by others. But when
is it not that already? Except when oneself was doing it too in such unawareness...

It's all woo, woo is always occuring not seeing that is the wooiest of the woo... eventually the urge to turn back to the mundane the same as many at
their first peek behind the curtian have. How's that for a craving? It's so much like that character that was: hey take me out of the matrix already
where's that pill... just because others attachment to which you have no attachment becomes so strong the empathy and compassion one has can become a
feeling of murderousness to get such away from you... like a fly on a horses ass that serves nothing but to feed it's self out of it's own
selfishness.

Of course that can't ever happen despite them killing you in so many other worlds in varied ways... but that oh they hurt me they abused me etc gets
really old when you start hearing them saying it in the minds eye knowing they died but they dont know that, and then hearing them pray selling douls
and anything else is such desperation... and you just want away from them.

It's like being buried in a family cemetary against one's will and they are your neighbors for all eternity and you'd anhilate them in an instant if
you weren't aware it would immediately lead to rebirth for you not but not them... but then conscious awareness goes and the path must be started over
again and immortality relenquished.

Whatever makyo just relating things likely no one else can directly relate too... not attached so it's left in the occurances itself and well relaying
them here.

Leonard Cohen left... he didn't have the wherewithitall either, I personally don't want to live through the 80's for Trumps egotistical wet dream with
a government full of fundamentalist nazi's hanging social progress in the noose of totalitarianism just so these spoiled ignorant assholes born in the
30s to the 40s can take birth in the 80s to pick up the same bigoted crap by those fools still holding the torch for it so the world seems similar...
that's the problem with those calling themselves gods trying to put their own faces on their children and making their children believe in one
secretly thinking themselves that god...

That's why it's a futility and none of them deserve an ounce of worship... there's no equanimity in such lines and labels. I got wrathful and
destroyed a few systems already heard them begging on their knees. Yet death? No that insured they would follow from that lowerself destroying
them.

That too is part of the boddhisattva path btw... compassion compassion compassion, empathy empathy empathy until the ignorant reign then destroy it
same thing then it starts looking biblical all destroying the hell out of the ignorant fools then seeing them try and then right back at it...
futility.

If anything the Boddhisattva path is to exhaust any and all possible desire to ever ever incarnate in such stupidity ever again.

So keep going if you havent destroyed at least a dozen world systems been offered a universe hear gods being born so yound they sound like a three
year old? You haven't gone far enough... as far as you want to go though right? So when you've had enough renounce and let go...

Maybe I'll try the vajrayana or tantrayana two different vehicles... kandampa is the stint in hell and it BLOWS but at least it is like a billion MPH
a nanometer towards buddhahood which means giving up the vow btw it's so stupid it's almost funny.

Then you have persons scared to be all yeah I rub one out... haha infants lemme just tell you how creation occurs 20,000 times and blurp into this
madness because of all these ignorant fools attaching to nonsense and there it goes again. But but I have this self that can't be anything else and I
am ashamed or guilty ffs animals have an easier life than humanity does.

In the eighties, my feelings/thoughts. Hated the president that was worshiped like a god so much they wanted to put his face on Mt. Rushmore. There
was a recession. I listened to a lot of punk rock and heavy metal. There were terrorists overseas blowing up innocent people. Besides being poor at
least I was safe

Now. A president that I am pretty sure I am going to hate that everybody has already worshiped as a TV idol. There is a recession. I listen to punk
still and heavy metal and speed metal from time to time but throw in jazz, classical, American rock, my Baby Metal addiction, grunge, Iceland folk
music, blues, ahh heck, anything except the stuff called country. The terrorist are now home grown or coming across the desert from Mexico... or
deposited in San Ber'dino by commercial airlines. My Berenstein bears have gone the way of the dodo as has Pete Townsend and we still do not know why.
I am still not rich by any stretch of the imagination (compared to others that do the same type of work) and am even less safe than before.

I have mellowed out from an angry young man to a bemused hippie-Buddha-wanna-be. And the strangeness from my teens still happens and sometimes is even
more strange than I remember. At least bigfoot is still around and probably the Loch Ness monster but he is getting up there in age like Leonard Cohen
too. And sheeple, there always seems to be sheeple. And taxes. Why are there still internal combustion engines? Where are the floating cities? Where
is the 150 year life spans? Can I hop over to those timelines? But I guess I can watch ultra HD and watch shows that show me how I am supposed to act
and behave. Then maybe one day this square peg will fit that round hole. Pass the Ritalin please!

Give me, a Leonard Cohen afterworld...
-Nirvana

and

The same old story, no factual glory
I against I against I against I
And I say I don't like it
And I know I don't want it
I against I against I against I
-Bad Brains

I'm just going to let that one slide.. I havn't had any in awhile, if that starts up again I don't even know.. Makes me feel way too weird.. Even for
someone like me, that is a bit much haha. Not counting that one nope nope nope.

Its beautiful to me that the extremes give "guidelines" for appreciating the spectrum that exists in between them. The oscillation of duality giving
all things, including that tricky no thing, its movement. How else could a flower bloom?

I can't say I dig the whole "kill yourself" (

) idealogy that permeates Buddhism and various others. Though, its amazing how appealing concepts
like ego death were to me at one point, ironically. I eventually saw it as one of the most effective tests and demonstrations of how deeply we can
delude ourselves. Even in multiple events of perceived death of self (some quite prolonged), which I thought of as a building block in
"enlightenment," I always missed the most glaringly, blatantly obvious of things.

It almost seems as if its common knowledge now, to some at least, but such traps still fascinate me. Amazingly clever thinking, in my opinion, that
has been preserved throughout quite a few civilizations. Only in springing the trap and recognizing it as such leads to the belly laugh of one
of the better jokes out there. It was nice to start from "scratch" in that way, but I'm glad I actually started growing things.

One thing I noticed during those times was that so much of it resulted in almost complete insularity under the guise and intent of unity. Every
conversation was with myself, or at least, I couldn't relate to anyone outside of how they existed in my mind. I was really just screaming at my
reflection in the cosmic mirror.

All that eventually put me to thinking the self never really ceases to exist, despite how we can convince ourselves otherwise in totality. In the same
vein, when one convinces themselves its all self, what is generally seen as selfless is actually selfish intent. I see many things that work quite
similarly, which led to the suspicion that an entirely different set of markers was beneficial. Which, over the years, resulted in some beautifully
cultivated systems. Some are pruned, some are cloned, some are shaped, but the walk through the garden is ever more exquisite.

Funnily enough, if that younger me were to hear such words, he would think that I just had not "grokked" it "properly" yet, rather than ever consider
things could grow enough to appear like an earlier stage. Some of the greatest ironies seem to play out that way, and such lack of omniscience leads
to unique appreciation.

Now, I see the middle path as lined with the hedges of the extreme. Perhaps more accurately, the middle garden framed by the hedges of duality.
Its quite beautiful.

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