What do we see about European bikes over and over on this website..."Who the $%&# designed this thing?" practically a dozen times a day for years on end!

BMW, "Bikes Made Weird", "let's mount that footpeg on the engine case"...Husqvarna, "let's put the chain on the right side", KTM, "how do we make an oil change three times as difficult as normal?". I'm not saying the designs are necessary flawed in their functionality, but saying Japanese bikes are not user-friendly and Euro bikes are user-friendly is basically the opposite of the vast majority of opinions we see here on ADVRider.

Not my fault those guys cant effeciently spin a wrench.

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The ones who loudly claim to be all about educating those poor unfortunates who don't agree with em, I've found they are mostly all about ego gratification . . .

I am particualrly amused by the ones that claim that, notwithstanding their pot-stirring and trash talking, they are well liked and valued by many . . . . "many folks love me, in spite of my boorish behavior!"

chucklin'

It makes little difference -- these folks are, at best, minor annoyances whose good points get lost behind the cloud of smug that preceeds em . . . . .

YAY for buying what you want, and enjoying the daylights out of it.

__________________
"Here is your country. Cherish these natural wonders, cherish the natural resources, cherish the history and romance as a sacred heritage, for your children and your children's children. Do not let selfish men or greedy interests skin your country of its beauty, its riches or its romance.” T.R.

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Most owners of Japanese bikes get their fair share of wrenching in like anyone else. You managed to completely miss the point I was making...what a surprise. As bomber said before this post, your cloud of smug proceeds you.

You said Kawasaki's (and thereby Japanese) bikes are the least user-friendly bikes to work on and have implied that Euro bikes are easy to work on in comparison. But now by saying "not my fault those guys can't effeciently spin a wrench" you're implicitly admitting that Euro bikes are generally more complicated to work on which just also so happens to be the usual definition of not user friendly. That's a complete contradiction on your part.

Most owners of Japanese bikes get their fair share of wrenching in like anyone else. You managed to completely miss the point I was making...what a surprise. As bomber said before this post, your cloud of smug proceeds you.

You said Kawasaki's (and thereby Japanese) bikes are the least user-friendly bikes to work on and have implied that Euro bikes are easy to work on in comparison. But now by saying "not my fault those guys can't effeciently spin a wrench" you're implicitly admitting that Euro bikes are generally more complicated to work on which just also so happens to be the usual definition of not user friendly.

Dont put words in my mouth. When I say Kawasaki, i mean Kawasaki. Suzuki (as previously stated) is right in there. I have been elbows deep in many Japanese products, they are typically complex and require the removal of assemblies to access specific components. Once one understands this and applies it, the process of r&r becomes far less frustrating.
Kawasaki tends to take this a step further. For instance: accessing the carburetor on the KLX 450 requires removal of the rear subframe for jetting changes, and removal of the rear shock to fully service the carb. They also enjoy changing spec on wear items like wheel bearings, spokes, brake pads, and fork seals every 2-3years. Making parts procurement a PITA at times.

Team Orange however has only 3 pn# for rear wheel bearings for 1992-2013 85cc-950cc. Three Fork seals for 125-950. 2 different calipers for dirt/enduro/ds bikes since 1993. All bolts are sized 6-8-10-13-17, and the 08+ have torx and hex on ALL bolted hardware. Plus, even on an RFS or LC4 motor, jetting can be performed by rotating the carb.

Ive owned (and raced) about 6 Japanese dirt/ds bikes, and owned (and raced) 200-250-250f-300-300-360-400-525-640adv-950adv KTMs. I can honestly say that they are the most modular, least failure prone, and easiest access motorcycles ive ever worked on. And with certianty I will never go back to Japanese offroad bikes.

Ymmv, imho, gfys, fyyff, etc.

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I will tell ya what..... I paid $1500 for my KLR. I spent a fair bit of money building it up. I think I am now totally into it about $6K with motor, suspension, and fairing, total. I can strip it to nuts and bolts on the side of the trail if I need to. I am still into it less than a comparable KTM would cost me. I ride almost every day, when it is not snowing, I ride the dirt and gravel roads of Montana extensively, and I ride single track now with my buddies on KTM 450 trail bikes. I am not nearly as fast, but every time they wait at the top of something help me, and plow right through while they collect their jaws off the ground.

No, my bike isn't a KTM, but it was cheaper to build, is simple to work on, and has NEVER failed me, even when I have screwed up mechanically. Comparing it to a KTM is silly. With a 705 kit, headwork, and some other tweaks, it is one helluva bike. And my butt dyno confirms it has more than enough oomph to get me in trouble.

That's my exact point!

I paid 3600 for my 05 EXC and put about 1k into it....springs, guards, bags, tank, etc. It was pretty well kitted when I got it.

And my experience exactly resembles yours...perfect history, easier to put together than an erector set, and blistering power, torque with couch-like suspension. Couple that with bulletproof reliability, and you can see where I'm coming from.

People dump thousands of dollars into bikes trying to make them into somethng that they simply cannot be when those bikes are being produced already by other companies.

I just wish folks would get over their fear of change and give it a try, like I did.
Yup, as much as it pains me to admit, 3 years ago, I was JUST like you guys. Laughing at KTMs when I purchased my XRR......a bike that ADV told me was the "biggest, baddest bike made, and the best bike made for a big guy".

Yup, I was just as anti-KTM as the rest of the fearful, ignorant masses. But a year into XRR ownership I was ready to give up riding. The bike had some serious flaws and made riding un-fun.

After some searching, I wanted a bike that had E-start and Kickstart, under 300lbs, and between 4-650cc, a history of reliability and didn't need a lot of upgrades. The only bike that met my criteria was made by KTM.

So I bought it and the rest is history. As I said, if anyone in the Japanese big 4 made a big that fit my criteria, I would have considered it, but they don't.

So yes, I'm a convert, like Hookaguy and many others.

Like I always say, there's a very valid reason why so many people ride these bikes now. Take a chance. They are nowhere near as expensive, as exotic, as unreliable as the fearful crows like to caw. And parts are no more hard to get than Japanese bikes.

Wow, yay for you. I looked. I work on all kinds of vehicles too. I said comparing them was foolish. I only compared costs of what I built compared to what I could find. I never said anything else about your precious KTM. In fact, I like them a lot. Just not in my budget.

I am not here to argue. Have a nice day.

It must be hard going through life being so angry all the time.

Yep,

he has anger issues out the asspipe. as I stated before, he called me everything under the sun for using my avatar...what a classy ass hat he is!

Im guessing his next door neighbour anal raped him with a wood chisel when he was a kid...

Thats great! I am glad your bike works well for you and sounds like a great deal. I couldn't find anything like that when I bought my KLR. I put money into it to make it what I wanted. Mine works great for me. I know what it is and I know what it isn't. What I have learned is it is a heck of a lot more about the rider than the bike. The better I get, the better my KLR becomes.

I have 3000 into my 99 ktm 640e (including tax and liscensing) and I wouldnt trade it for 10 brand new klr's. I am not a ktm fanatic. I like all bikes for different chit. I've ridden klr's, xr"s, dr:s, xl's, tt's, xt's. All 500's or bigger. Then I rode my 640e. It's on a whole new level. and CHEAP. Hardly any maintenance so far in 1800 miles. Oil change and clutch lever and carb cleaning. You can't appreciate my bike till ya try it. Vibes are no issue. You ever ride a huffy and think it was the bomb till ya rode a trek?

Lol, yeah, it is a dream bike. I never said a bad thing about KTM. I Even said I would like one in one of my previous posts. I said I can't AFFORD one. Being a father of three takes a little precedence and requires me to plan projects ahead to save money while still keeping my bike rideable. All the great bikes listed are still twice what I paid out the door. I would love any of them. It took me some time to get the money to build what i have, and i did it in pieces. either way, i like it. For some reason that bothers you, which I find laughable.

But obviously folks are incapable of having a grown up conversation without tossing insults, so have a nice day.

Lol, yeah, it is a dream bike. I never said a bad thing about KTM. I Even said I would like one in one of my previous posts. I said I can't AFFORD one. All the great bikes listed are still twice what I paid out the door. It took me some time to get the money to build it.

But obviously folks are incapable of having a grown up conversation without tossing insults, so have a nice day.

You absolutely can afford one, mate. That's one of the common misconceptions that are tossed around. They are around the same prices as Japanese bikes.

You can get a well-kitted out EXC for 3-4k 04-07 for a small ADV bike/singletrack duties and a Husky T610 KTM 640 for around the same price for a middleweight ADV bike.