“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Health problems are not just because of meat. The buns are white flour. The soda is full of high fructose corn syrup. The fries may be vegetarian, but they are deadly.Having said that, if McDonalds is against it, then I'm for it.

Hi alanI'm not sure that the fries are vegetarian. Some years ago when McDonalds' was introduced to India, there were widespread protests when it was discovered that the fries were cooked in oil containing beef tallow which gives the McD's fries their distinctive taste.However you look at it, McDonald's food, "healthy choice" options included, are not a healthy choice. I think its about time that McDonald's insipid marketing message which is to normalise the consumption of junk food, was directly challenged by governments and public interest groups.kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Agreed, Ben. I've heard that because of the outcry, McD is now cooking their fries in veg. oil, at least in some locations. Either way, I'm sure we agree that fast food is not just a health problem, but also a social problem.

alan wrote:Health problems are not just because of meat. The buns are white flour. The soda is full of high fructose corn syrup. The fries may be vegetarian, but they are deadly.Having said that, if McDonalds is against it, then I'm for it.

There's a picture somewhere of a hamburger which has ben sitting around for years and looks the same as when it was made. Even the *bugs* are smart enough not to touch those things./ either!Kim

Monkey Mind wrote:There's a popular urban myth here in the US that McDs imports kangaroo meat for their burgers when there is a beef shortage.

I can assure you it is a myth. If my memory serves me well, one needs a licence in order to export kangaroo meat. And supplying McDonald's with kangaroo meat would not be something that would go unnoticed. Ours and the worlds media would be over that story like flies to a freshly dropped turd. Kangaroo meat, if you haven't tasted it, has a very strong and distinctive flavour - in the same way venison has a very strong and distinctive flavour. It doesn't taste anything like beef.Personally, I don't like it.kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Ben wrote: I think its about time that McDonald's insipid marketing message which is to normalise the consumption of junk food, was directly challenged by governments and public interest groups.kind regards

Ben

Same goes for a lot of crap people are fed through the ads and pop-culture messages.

As for roo meat, that wouldn't be so bad since roos are culled in Australia and forests are not cleared for their pastures. So at least this wouldn't be contributing to suffering in the same way as beef production is. But as Ben said, it is extremely unlikely.

My girlfriend likes eating at Mcdonalds once in awhile. Will I make a big deal about it and refuse to eat? No. I like a double bacon cheeseburger w/ fries and a shake as much as the next guy. Having said that, my cholesterol is fine and I am not overweight.

You know why?

Moderation.

McDonalds is not killing anybody. People with food related obesity and cholesterol are killing themselves by their own own hand.

The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

bodom wrote:McDonalds is not killing anybody. People with food related obesity and cholesterol are killing themselves by their own own hand.

That is indeed very true, bodom. However, McDonalds, as with other very large fast-food conglomerates, also have a responsibility to public health. These companies spend billions of dollars each year on marketing and advertising and are very adept at the art of persuasion. While you and I might go to McDonalds on the odd occassion and under duress, their bread-and-butter comes from millions of people who don't think twice about going multiple times a week.

As an aside, A few years ago,a law was passed in Australia that fast-food companies such as McDonald's Hungry Jack's (Burger King) and KFC had to declare the breakdown of nutritional information (including energy and salt) and the percentage of nutrient as per recommended daily allowance on the packaging of all their take-away products. Very salutory reading while you're chowing down on your quarter-pounder!kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

bodom wrote:My girlfriend likes eating at Mcdonalds once in awhile. Will I make a big deal about it and refuse to eat? No. I like a double bacon cheeseburger w/ fries and a shake as much as the next guy. Having said that, my cholesterol is fine and I am not overweight.

You know why?

Moderation.

McDonalds is not killing anybody. People with food related obesity and cholesterol are killing themselves by their own own hand.

McDonalds are in fact killing millions of cows every year, along with all those other critters whose homes get destroyed for pastures and soy plantations (although under pressure they have modified their behavior in respect of the latter).

Of course I do take you point about moderation. But in order for that to work people need to be able to exercise free choice and when they are bombarded with ads on the tellie and bill-boards, like it or not, they get brain-washed.

Ads like the one above is to counteract that. Of course it is also brain-washing, just of the opposite kind.

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.

bodom wrote:My girlfriend likes eating at Mcdonalds once in awhile. Will I make a big deal about it and refuse to eat? No. I like a double bacon cheeseburger w/ fries and a shake as much as the next guy. Having said that, my cholesterol is fine and I am not overweight.

You know why?

Moderation.

McDonalds is not killing anybody. People with food related obesity and cholesterol are killing themselves by their own own hand.

And you have McDonalds in many countries, with similar economic access to food, that do not show high levels of obesity.

Sure a burger has lots of unhealthy fat, as do fries, and too much proteins, but we also eat too much sugar and too much salt anyway. I wouldn't blame McDonalds more than Hagen Daz or M&M's. IMO The real problem is lack of moderation, lack of physical exercise and lack of knowledge about the caloric and nutritive value of what we eat.

For those struggling with overweight I recommend using this site EverydayHealth.com were you can keep a detailed track of what you eat. Noting what food contains is really helpful in managing weight.

I do, once or twice a month, have my McTasty and I have no problem with cholesterol.

Ben wrote:As an aside, A few years ago,a law was passed in Australia that fast-food companies such as McDonald's Hungry Jack's (Burger King) and KFC had to declare the breakdown of nutritional information (including energy and salt) and the percentage of nutrient as per recommended daily allowance on the packaging of all their take-away products. Very salutory reading while you're chowing down on your quarter-pounder!kind regards

Ben

Our new health care bill that was passed in March also requires that, for any restaurant that has 20 or more locations. Some of them were already doing that and offering healthier stuff on their menus but now it will be required. I think when people see just how much fat and calories are in some of the items, the trend for chains to offer healthier stuff will continue.

On the topic of informed consumers, I saw a story yesterday that the producers of high fructose corn syrup are asking the FDA to let them change the name of it to "corn sugar" because their sales have been dropping so much lately. They want to disguise it by switching to a new name.

Moderation--we all love it. Who is willing to decry a sensible, moderate policy when it comes to diet?I am. Show me any world in which the garbage sold at those chain food joints qualifies as food, and I'll agree that it is Ok to eat it.

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

Way back in the early 90s (adopt grandpa voice for this story) we had a project to do in the standard Engineering School maths class. We were given a McDonald's menu, which included prices and nutritional information, and had to work out the most cost effective way of getting a standard dietary intake through the items on the menu.

Tricky.

However, my friends and I, being rather clever and all ( ) didn't even need to set up the various equations (and possibly even computer model) to work it out, the answer was as ingenious as it was simple:

The most cost effective way to eat from a McDonald's menu, was to eat only the tomato ketchup ... because it is free!

Needless to say, from my undergraduate days until now, I can recall no more than about 2 or 3 times I've eaten McDonalds, always only when taken there by someone else. That stuff barely qualifies as food (except, um... the ketchup, of course!) I remember a few friends of the anarchist / punk / militant vegan variety who used to protest outside the big McDs on Queens Street, in the heart of Auckland.

ah, those were the days!

Last edited by Paññāsikhara on Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.

Ben: I'm gathering that you're an Aussie of similar vintage to me, so I guess you'd remember too the anti-smoking campaigns they used to put on TV, like the sponge soaking up all the dirty, greasy water, or more comically, the 'Bag the Fag(means cigarettes in Australia/NZ/UK etc.!)' campaign: It was very visually impacting but it didn't stop many people smoking that I knew - They just figured 'won't happen to me'. Same with the 'Grim Reaper' HIV/AIDS ads, didn't eliminate unsafe sex. People (including me:)) know that their unskilful habits are harming them, probably going to kill them but they prefer to remain blissfully ignorant. Hence, we practice!

Hey JohnMate, I think you would be surpised as to how effective those campaigns really are/were. And for a lot of people that are addicted, those ads become a constant nag, that and other social pressures, it builds up. Most people I have known who were addicted, myself included, hated smoking and were looking for the courage or support to give up - even if it was never admitted.How long has it been since you've been home John? Have you been back after a law was passed that turns quarter of a cigarette packet into a health warning?

A few years later when I was doing marketing as part of my degree, it was cited as the most successful television campaign for a public health message (in Australia). kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725