I sent a couple emails out to camp Apokolipta, starting I think way back in September. Captain Killbuck informed me that he had to go underground until the whole Ghadafi thing blew over and I haven't heard back from him them since. Some guidance would be greatly appreciated as I try and organize this trip for me and a few of my friends. Please take a moment while I explain why I believe you should allow me to join your community this August (provided I can get a ticket in the $240 lottery).

My friends and I are motivated to become a part of this thing and not simply spectators: Ryan (Ryan Beesley): former world class competitive paintball player, now an engineer for a an oil rig. Good guy to have around; smart, strong and really very funny and lives in Cali. Everon is a lifelong friend of mine, ex Army pharmaceutical tech now turned HVAC and electrical repair guy. Louie: One of my more crazy friends but a great guy and he works at a Solar Cell production plant in Mississippi (He may be able to get two large panels for us) Me: I am a 29yr old ( 30 on the 28th of August) airforce veteran, separated in 08. I was trained in cpr, first aide, basic life support and I completed combat lifesaver training for certification. While this will be my first burn I am no stranger to the desert, the effects of dehydration or hard work. Currently I am a mechanical engineering student at SMU and I am a notorious contraptionist. My 2011 projects included a waterproof-floating-bluetooth-stereo-cooler and a very powerful portable CO2 powered t-shirt gun. Currently I am working on an electric powered "dirtsurfer" that I intend to use as my primary method of transport on the playa.

This group of 3 solid friends are all committed to join me on this adventure. All are very capable, helpful and motivated. If there is not a fit for us in your camp, please point me in the right direction. We would all much prefer to join a camp with a good plan of action that we can help realize its potential.

OH! I almost forgot! I work in a machine shop on campus. Depending on school workload I should have plenty of time to work on and weld projects before the burn. So if you needed to have some material shaped , bent cut or welded I should be able to help out, time permitting.

why do you need a camp? sounds like you could make a nice one on your own with that group.

...not that you guys arent awesome.. but lotsa camps have problems with this kinda group..

<begin quasi slacker rant>i know mine did.. we went from welcoming interested newbies with open arms to being burned by them and going with vetted known hard workers only.

a lot of people think they are willing to do the dirty work until they actually get there and find out how fun it is and how shitty the dirty work is.... nobody really wants to work on their 'vacation'

granted, tons of new people have kicked ass (including myself!) but.. lotsa camps have been burned by eager beavers who turned out to be not-so-eager.

any of the bigger camps will have some really shit work that has to be done.. and im not talking just helping lift something, or pound on a hammer ... but like, really crappy jobs that need to be done every day.

and you cannot forget that these camps and groups put everything into their camp.. its their baby.. and youre an outsider, at least the way i see it... you gotta care as much as they do.

and it being a leave no trace event.. some jobs and tasks just really plain suck..

it seems that most of the big camps out there youll have 20% of the people involved doing most of the work.. the lions share... with other people not much around,... usually the same people toughing it out every time..

if you arent willing to be one of those 20% of people who are always there to get er done no matter how many fun things you had planned... you should probably consider camping with yer friends and having a fun time without a theme camp.

you might be used to work in hard conditions, you might be used to all sorts of bad stuff.. but you usually arent used to this on your vacation, paid for by you.. as a volunteer.. the dynamic changes a lot.

theme camps, especially the bigger ones.. are a huge undertaking where people plan for the next year before the current event is over.. if WORKING isnt your primary concern you probably shouldnt consider joining a theme camp.

you dont join a camp for a place to camp, you join a camp to WORK.

</end quasi rant>

with that said, theres always people out there who will accept a group of people..

Welcome ianjthor. Please keep in mind that most people don't belong to a theme camp. There are just as many reasons for not belonging to an organized camp as there are for being part of one. You can bring all your supplies and camping gear and set up in any open area. You can continue to make connections here on eplaya in an attempt to find a suitable camp, but don't fret if it doesn't happen.

Many camps have dues to help with the infrastructure and supplies. You could use that money to buy lots of bottles of cheap no-name alcohol.

Thank you for that poignant rant! I do understand the fear of getting a dirtbag leached onto your tent. And I do not doubt that the work can get REALLY SHITTY. But the community element of the BM experience will be vital for me to do this right. Building a makeshift water recyling shower or a evap pond sounds pretty cool to me. And it will be the best way to learn how to do this so I can do it better the following year. The engineering, trouble shooting, building, it's a given that I will enjoy that. The picking up moot for 10 hours during the trip will be much less fun but I won't shy from my duties and they shouldn't be too bad collectively. So again, if anyone is prepared to take a risk on a newbie I'm all ears.

Thanks for the quick reply. If I don't hear positive feedback I will take your advice and create a mini 4 person spot to call home.

yep! the making connections thing is very true.. on eplaya and at burning man itself

one of my favorite camps at burning man works their butt off to put on live musicians every night... i spend most of my time there when im not in my own camp..

im as said once an "honorary member"

just because you arent a camper of the camp doesnt mean you cant become a part of that community..

it just means you provide your own infrastructure and live somewhere else, which as mentioned.. is what most people do.. most people just camp in their own personal camp and dont take part in a theme camp.

theres lots to do out there.. lotsa things to see.. lotsa work to be done as well!

if your interest is being a part of a community, or a part of SOMETHING.. you neednt be camping in a theme camp for that.. plenty of space to get involved without committing to a theme camp... for example.. volunteering with one of the MANY burning man departments, some of which offer no-long-term-commitment walk up volunteer opportunities...... we can tell you alll about that if it is something youd want to do.

All great advice guys. In all likelihood we will be doing it all ourselves at least as far as the camp is concerned. I have read lots on what we would need to bring to survive this thing. In your opinion, with a group of only 4 people, what kind of shelter should we attempt and what kind of "amenities" should we try and create.

For example should we just give up on being able to clean ourselves outside of face, hand and armpit washing? I was hoping to have a place to rinse off every other day at least. Should be able to get all the necessary cleaning done with one gallon per wash I would think. Do we need to have an "evaporator pond" thing for something like this? Or just use biodegradable soap? I spent some time in the desert and I know we can live just fine in our own funk but I would prefer to avoid smelling like wet garbage come day 3.

Also, the leave no trace thing introduces new elements into camping that I haven't dealt with before. What types of foodstuffs would you bring to minimize waste. I was actually thinking of just bringing a bunch of MRE's. The new ones don't taste bad, but they are all in disposable plastic containers, not burnable.

There's a lot of stuff like this that I just don't know and that was a big appeal of joining a camp. To see how its done right so we don't get caught with our pants down simply because we forgot to plan for some silly thing or another.

I sent a couple emails out to camp Apokolipta, starting I think way back in September. Captain Killbuck informed me that he had to go underground until the whole Ghadafi thing blew over and I haven't heard back from him them since. Some guidance would be greatly appreciated as I try and organize this trip for me and a few of my friends. Please take a moment while I explain why I believe you should allow me to join your community this August (provided I can get a ticket in the $240 lottery).

When I read the your first post on this page It read as a plea to join Apokiliptika's camp, but then I read closer and saw that you were in fact talking about Apokolipta and when I saw that you tried to get ahold of Captain Killbuck I knew it definately wasn't the same camp at all.

We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

He cross-posted from the apok thread, Dick. He's jumping into it front feet first, at any rate.

Look, ianjthor, if you want a spot in a theme camp--with that resume, you'll probably get one. If you want to find your own spot for four, you can obviously do that, too. If you want to recruit your own theme camp, you might pull it off. (I wasn't reading carefully, and I'm too lazy to scroll, are all of you ex-mil?)My advise, do some reading, hang around the board, test the waters with multiple camps--that get you excited--and don't rush into anything. You've got 7 months on your side. And there's a lot of stuff on showers and evap ponds up in the preparation threads.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I've joined camps and they worked out well, there was some minor drama at one of them, but it was not attached to me. I think joining a camp is a good idea, if that is what you feel would be best. There are all types and levels of camps. One of the camps I was with didn't provide showers, no biggie. (see below)

If you neeed to make a shower, I would skip the evaporation pond and just pour your grey water back into big sturdy jugs (like the 5 gallon ones, bring one empty jug to start) I like a 2 to 4 gallon shower myself, it can be done with gallon size jugs warming on the hood of your vehicle, then just pour it over yourself while standing in a Home Depot type cement tub and pour that grey/shower water in to the jug(s). For privacy you can buy a $40 shower tent or hold up sheets or whatever works (tarps etc) and you can shower in the open, next to your vehicle works well. Then remove the grey water jugs in your vehicle and dump it off playa after the festival. I let the shower tent down when not around, and I don't hang a solar shower bag inside (too flimsy unless someone holds the shower tent up!) the jugs work just fine. Dr Bronners peppermint soap is cooling out there, and refreshing!!

Have you given thought to the amount of dust a 'dirtsurfer' might kick up? If it kicks up a LOT of dust it could be a bummer and cause everyone to run for cover; especially if you're 'dirtsurfing' on the city streets. We may be in for an extra dusty year, due to the dry winter weather.

I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!

Thanks guys, I got in touch with the "North Texas Burners" via facebook so I'll be meeting with some of them soon to discuss. Bay Bridge Sue responded to my post on the Apokoliptika thread too so I'll be sending her a PM soon also.

Since I'm not sure about the camp situation I've decided to just start building stuff I might need. This machine is at the top of my list: http://www.instructables.com/id/Gray-B- ... ywater-di/ Pretty cool idea! Evaporates between 2 and 4 gallons an hour!

I work in a machine shop on campus and the start of the semester is always slow. Now is the best time to use all the machines without falling behind.

Two of my friends are old college buddies. The other is an Army vet, I was Airforce myself. We are both happy to be out.

The dirt surfer shouldn't kick up anymore dust than a bicycle. Here is a pretty awesome video of someone using one with a kite: http://www.wingsurfer.co.uk/ . Mine will be very similar but will be powered by a 52v 20amp/hour battery and a hub motor. It wont be any faster than a bicycle and just as quiet. I am building it specifically for Burning man and I'll be sure it complies with all the rules.

I have been part of a theme camp my 2 yrs so far. -BUT- I foud that for the most part I was self sufficient regardless. Nice to use the kitchen and grey water pond on a couple of occassions, hardly a need. The theme camp I was a part of was in service of a larger art project (dont get me wrong, way cool) but dont stress about the infrastructure. Sounds like that will not even be a problem for you all.

If you do not theme, concentrate on some shade space to hang in, whatever basic comfort elements you need (solar showers w/ jug to haul away as was mentioned), some food (less that you think you will want)and sleep space.

Otherwise just plan a camping trip.

All good

"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."