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Consider the role of Grik auxiliaries fighting with the Allies. And the very real possibility of a peace, even an alliance, with the Grik Empire.

It could very well come to pass that not only are Grik armies fighting on the Allied side, but also that enlisted Grik are serving directly in the Union/Republic military. I know the Cats and humans are professionals (most of them), but would most of them accept working with their former enemies… maybe even taking orders from them?

Peace probably, but alliance… IMHO, you are going too far, suggesting an alliance in foreseeable future. With all respect, but the quantity of bad blood between Grik and Union are far too big to just forget it. Only the literal threat to their common existence could make them work together.

With all respect, its just a politic – playing your enemies agains each other. And League do nothing bad against Grik, frankly. So, I really doubt that any major fraction of Grik empire would be eager to rally for Union against them.

Short term the League is doing the Grik a favor. and has not attacked the Grik directly as far as we know, but they don’t want a major land military power that close to them. Besides the Celestial Mother is a teenager under the thumb of two handlers the Chooser and Esshk you don’t have rebellious youth in Mother Russia?

Well, you’ve got an ‘alliance’ of sorts with Halik and Niwa, a truce between the Allies and Halik, so a more formal arrangement could be possible, but mixed formations… a pipe dream, I think. Too many ‘cultural’ differences.

What I could see is an arrangement with Halik to provide security to the Northwest, and possibly the ‘Navy Clan’ Griks to provide coastal security reinforcement at the Cape. I’d keep them out of the Zambezi campaign, just too confusing. Or send the crews north to Halik as artillerymen or Red Sea,Persian Gulf support vessel crews. Fit the Grik cruisers and battleshps with some AAA. Give Halik some of the leftover tugs and barges as well.

Right now it’s just a few Griks like pokey, but you’ve got the group captured on Zanzibar for cleanup duties. Question is, what do you do with them? This may sound like too bloodthirsty an idea for the series, but give them back their personal weapons and send them after the Grik in the north. Keeps them busy for now… the ships crews are going to be isolated and more easily handled.

The young grik of fighting age are not trained to do anything except obey orders. Most think of them as having intelligence and knowledge like a trained human soldier. This is not the case with the common grik soldier. They are the equivalent of a human 3 year old in mental abilities. The officers are those that were separated early and do have some training but still only in fighting knowledge. The ull are the ones that will have the training to be able to differentiate between old enemy and old enemy now friend. The ull also will be separated into factions and these are the ones that will need to be convinced that being a friend is better than being an enemy, or at least less expensive in the long term.

I am not sure what will happen to the 3 squadrons of jap fighters but I suspect that most who escaped did not go to the grik but instead ran to the league. There were still most likely a few league personal on the base who knew where the league base of operations on the east coast of Africa is and headed there with the japs following them.

That could be true, Don; don’t think anyone brought that up, and the LOT would probably welcome any extra planes, even (to them) obsolete ones.

Esshk recognized that his “New Grik” warriors are also potentially rebellious, hence his hope that they all get killed off so they can go back to the more subservient Uul of the past. Any remaining would have to be ‘elevated’ to Hij to keep them out of the rank-and-file as potential rebel leaders (Alexey, maybe they would be the first ‘Red’ Grik)

//They are going to have to break up the stuff in Zanzibar simply to prevent the Griks from getting it.//
I’d keep Zanzibar, it’s relatively safe (once you get ride of the grik on the island), multiple airfields, factories, repair yards, ICE houses, weapon shops and it’s closer to africa for staging raids from Sofesshk to the Arabian Peninsula.

The safest thing is what they have done. They cannot afford to have any more area’s to protect without real food cause due to the man/cat power required to protect any new area’s near combat probable sites. You know that the Grik will come back in strength as long as anything is there so absolute destruction is necessary to prevent them from using the area. Once they do comeback they will be required to rebuild the entire infrastructure of the island and they will not be able to afford to due this anytime soon.

There is a substantial Grik force still in the north of Zanzabar so the alliance will take what they can and junk the rest. They did capture the Grik workers who now consider themselves American Navy Clan. Hopefully a few Torpedo/bombers under construction and be completed to give the alliance some for the upcoming fight on the Zambezi. The torpedo/bomber factory and Areal torpedo factory to keep them in Torpedoes would be my priority.

Hope we’ll see more of Halik & Niwa in the next book. Think they have the potential to become, maybe not allies, but “Third Way” partners in trade and in cooperation. The few Grik that came over to the Allies (and survived) in DD might be the basis of a new ‘clan’ led by H’Jeerki. Having them as a flanking force to any LOT land advance south in coming years would be useful, even if limited to mobile, SAS-style attacks.

Having Muriname and his 3 squadrons would be useful as well. Wonder if they were just the Japanese pilots, or did some of the Grik pilots escape as well? Imagine Halik having a small aerial scout detachment to use; the planes were built for rough-field use, and could be shared with (or assigned to) Alliance forces.

Trying to out guess Taylor Anderson is difficult. I see having Muriname having a role, and perhaps Halick and/or Niwa, but not until the Grand Swarm is defeated. Halick and Niwa will have to be brought in by the alliance as walking would take months.

Muriname is important because some of the aircraft have radios and may be able to contact the alliance to arrange a truce and peace talks.

can you imagine the damage that could be caused by SMART griks in smart commando/SAS type attacks. I Halik being smart and offering some of his smart troops to both sides for training then using them agains whichever side he determines is the greater enemy. he seems to operate on the the enemy of my friend is my enemy but my friend might not really be my friend

Agree, he has been on the receiving end of too many of the Czechs’ attacks. And the Japanese, at the beginning of WW2, more often than not did not do the ‘conventional (European)’ or expected attacks, so Niwa would probably think the same thing. Asymmetrical warfare is often the best approach when your opponent (hopefully the LOT or their allies) has the edge in equipment.

Speaking of light forces, hopefully Taylor won’t load the Raiders down with too much more new technology; personally, I think the tanks are better suited for the RRP. Yes, the Japanese used tanks in Malaya and frightened the bejesus out of the Brit’s colonial troops, but limiting tanks’ mobility is not a good thing.

Ditto for the Maroons; although they’d fight hard from fixed defenses, I think they’d be better suited working with the Sherr-ee shooting from behind rocks and trees, like colonial militia did to the Brits on their way home from Lexington & Concord (and Russian partisans in WW2). No better way to confuse an army learning to follow fixed orders and organized attacks.

Not necessarily the Raiders, but definitely the Marines – tanks have their role in amphibious warfare (D-Day, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, etc), to say nothing of manoeuvre warfare in Africa and garrison force duty. So a proper medium tank should be on the to-do list.

We all have days. But look on the bright side; June 2018 is less than a year away. Lou will have time to design the seep-powered ramjet, the next iteration of a light cruiser class, and maybe even an LVT for the Raiders!

I think eventually flying boats will become a secondary design, still useful for flying to undeveloped areas, but flights between developed areas will eventually be taken over by land-based transports like the DC-3 or Stal. Faster, more efficient and parallels the need for a land based 4-engine bomber.

Of course, to build all those airfields, they’ll need .battalions of CG’s… Construction Griks

Well if you’re going to talk about jet seaplanes you have to realize and remember that the USSR built the only supersonic jet seaplane bombmer. Yes it will and yes it actually did fly supersonic a few times but as a bomber it would determine to be a failure because it didn’t have the range it needed from what I understand. I don’t remember what it was called but I suspect there are certain parties here that know all about it.

if they can get good cooling, put one of the radials from the P1 in the tank for a power source. the Sherman used a radial, so too the M18, which is one of the fastest tanks we’ve ever built. you can have relatively thin armor like the M18, with overhead protection, of course! Two versions, one like M18, direct fire & one like M7 Priest with a howitzer for stand off, indirect fire.

At last check, the current “turtle” tanks are using Fleashooter radials; that’s why there’s only four of them, because it was all the engines they could spare. Muriname’s 380hp engines should get them to M4 levels of performance.

Since tank turrets don’t appear to be happening anytime soon though, the StuG might be a better benchmark than the Wolverine – one assault gun model, one assault howitzer model.

To be honest it is my feeling that we will see a lot more Japanese doing a lot to help the alliance to make up for kurokawa. I think they were more afraid of him than anyone else and as he was the official leader appointed by the emperor of Japan, that is the only reason that he was being followed

They are going to have to break up the stuff in Zanzibar simply to prevent the Griks from getting it. Although there may not be direct animosity there will always be individuals with lingering animosity that will not want to help those will have to go to the New Japan or whatever they call it. Those that are willing to help and are capable of providing help will most likely be split up amongst all the manufacturing facilities on a random basis to prevent tensions from building up by keeping them all in one place

Dead or alive, Kurokawa’s still dangerous. An apt fate for him, though, consumed by another predator. Still think the flamethrower cart should come to visit him, although some of the Mi-Annakaa might feel it sacreligious. My thoughts would be to make him into a cinder block and drop him over the side.

Wonder who the Japanese will accept to end their own ‘dame’ famine. Eurasian women from the RRP? Impie gals? Women from the NUS? They certainly appeared to get revved up by Sandra and Diania; racial purity didn’t seem to be an issue.

If the Kaiser’s smart, and he appears to be, he’d make the Japanese an offer. There’s no record of conflict between the two, and the Mi-Anaaka are a hell of a lot easier to work with than the Grik.

Yeah, but you’d think that they’d be looking beyond the end of their willy and realize that they’re stuck in this world. And remember, they’re on the LOSING side, so the first rape would probably be the last. Blas’ assailant didn’t fare so well.

Now that everybody seems to be caught up at least to Chapter 7, exactly what’s going to happen with the Grik breeding female in Liberty City? The “Puppet Queen Celestial Mother” option seems a bit too obvious…

So one big thing I was thinking about that the Zanzibar conflict and the end of Kurokawa’s forces will cause is the major increase of power in the Shogunate of Yokohama. They already have a lot of Japanese so far captured from earlier in the war and those from the other force. With so many people from old earth in place the nation should be seeing a major boost in its economic and military prowess especially if some impie girls are being diverted their way. They can become a major player and begin developing their own weapons and ideas that can greatly help the allies. Even if they are given the current base the allies are using they can improve it in ways the red of the alliance wont think of. I believe with the addition of women and being in their homeland which is part of the great alliance and getting the benefits and assistance from the rest of their once enemies the Japanese will work with a will to finally try to prove their honor in real fights and distance themselves from Kurokawa.

If manufactories can be built there and they can begin mining natural resources I think a little seen corner of the alliance could become a major player and heart of new kinds of innovations. In the future I can see forces from the Shogunate marching with allied troops or in the air, hopefully they can even begin producing ships to help.

Their main problem is the lack of population… As far as I understood, the Shogunate is relatively small union of tribes and villages. There are probably no more than a several hundred thousand lemurians, shogunate-affilated, as best. So, low population – little workforce. And Japanese islands, aren’t actually known for being resource-rich.

So, the more probable course would be that Shogunate would lend his human personnel as technical & military advisors.

//They can become a major player and begin developing their own weapons and ideas that can greatly help the allies. //

Frankly, I doubt that they would. The majority of Japanese Shogunate population is hardly an Alliance-sympatizers. Kurokawa or not, but the Alliance fought them and killed a lot of their comrades – and many of them still consider themselves in war with Americans, and American-led Alliance would hardly be among their favourites.

So, IMHO, the Shogunate wouldn’t be the “actual” member of Alliance, both because of lack of manpower, and general disapproval of Japanese population. More or less friendly toward the Alliance, yes. But formal member? Hardly.

Gleaning bits and pieces here and there, appears that DD contains MAJOR events. Can’t wait to go detecting tonight for an electronic version, but today is tractor day, already been to the JD dealer. Nothing runs like a Deere, until it breaks down when you go to use it, and is a critical part you don’t keep in consumable store. Don’t have a machine shop like Walker or Mahan.

With so many ‘old world’ Japanese in the Shogunate, I’d be surprised if they didn’t try to colonize the Chinese or Siberian coastal areas. Might still be a few Czech or Lemurians there, and I’d bet that Dalbec could provide a few volunteers to help explore. The more that populations intermingle, the less we’ll see of intense single-tribe fascism. JMHO.

Er… they have less than three hundreds of Japanese at all. With little human females. And their lemurians also are in short supply. IMHO, but for Shogunate the most immediate course of action would be to colonize the Japan islands…

P.S. Hey! Don’t touch Siberia! I still hope for the Soviet transfer on Far East)

A Soviet crossover would be really interesting. While the US and USSR were technically allies in WW2 it wasn’t exactly an easy alliance and it’s already clear many of the destroyermen are hostile to communism. That would breed some interesting interactions. It doesn’t have to be Soviet either. Could be tzarist or something else entirely depending on which world they come from. I think it would be cool to see something way out of left field like maybe a republican Russia, say they had something like the French revolution before Marx wrote his manifesto, or maybe a completely foreign type of government like some weird modern adaptation of the Mongol Kahn system that evolved from a different string of events during the mongol conquests. Russia is a huge place with a really cool and varied history who knows what could have happened?

Well that’s a lot compared to the remaining destroyermen and if they can begin trying to send some envoy to the impies and try to promote themselves I can see them getting more women which I’m sure is on everyone’s mind. Plus if they dont want to wallow as a minor nation they will need to begin to seek assistance from the alliance. If they sent advisors they would want resources and help in construction in return. I was a bit quick to jump to being a major nation but they can have a presence and increase their population steadily. There is a lot of knowledge there and the more trade and positive interaction with the allies will slowly wear down their hate and distrust of Americans. As more of them find themselves beside the allies I combat I’m sure things will change and if any Grik can survive that far north they might be a place for the prisoners to move as well but that’s the most unlikely part of my random thoughts since I don’t know how the general population feels about the more intelligent Grik they had on zanzibar…though the leaders and those working directly with them did seem to take pride in their pilots at least. This is just a big area to speculate since they have the largest population of modern humans this side of the league unless there’s more destroyermen than I thought.

You know, just struck me that if the Doms go down next, the temporary hiatus of young women ‘immigrating’ to the Empire is going to become permanent, as mamas will no longer fear for their daughter’s lives and will keep them home. Wonder if they’ll let them go to an expanding St Francis or the USN base at San Diego?

//A Soviet crossover would be really interesting. While the US and USSR were technically allies in WW2 it wasn’t exactly an easy alliance and it’s already clear many of the destroyermen are hostile to communism. That would breed some interesting interactions. //

Matt, that’s exactly why I’m advocating the Sovier transfer (we usually use therm “transfer” to describe the transition from one world to another). This could be pretty interesting in therms of interactions. And I firmly believe that mr. Anderson is perfectly capable to write the Soviet characters right.

(Which is, frankly, a problem for seems to be a lot of western authors. I read a quite lot of alternate history books, where is seems that authors were competing for the “McCarthy prize for Most Grotesque Communist Representation Ever”.)

I definitely think it would be cool and I agree Taylor does a great job with representing different groups without falling into stereotype. Have you read any Harry Turtledove? I thought the way the Soviet characters were protrayed in his wordlwar and colonization series was well done.

if it were a full blown ice-age the sea levels will be 300 feet lower than they are in our world so coastlines will be radically different and the entire area where ready arrived would have been 200 feet above sea level. Use google earth to see the depths around Singapore and Balakan. to really understand the problem.

Agreed Alexey and Donald. Remember, it is–as Courtney proposes early on–a “mild” ice age. Probably the beginning or tail end of a larger event, or even a “standalone>’ There were several of those. But even as described, it is clearly not a “major” ice age covering the majority of the continents. As also pointed out, many of the waterways they have traversed would be unpassable in that case and the Malay Barrier would be even more formidable!

That’s probably about right, Justin. There are other factors to consider as well, that may seem somewhat arbitrary, but the very geological evolution of the earth is proceeding at a somewhat altered pace due to the . . . different traumatic influences. As WE know, the Chixilub Impact did not occur, but others events have taken place, lighting different tectonic, volcanic, evolutionary and climatological fuses.

It would have been a smaller impact though for it to not cause a mass extinction. Maybe it hit another asteroid on the way in & either broke up with just a smaller piece hitting or knocking the smaller asteroid into an impact.

Or the Pass of Fire could be a result of an earthquake or super volcano or both. Things are not all in the same place as our world & the fault lines could be slightly off. I’m leaning towards the volcano theory, maybe augmented by a fault line, why else would they call it El Paso del Fuego?

The Toba super volcano in Indonesia is about 100×30 kilometers. The Panama canal is just under 80 kilometers, so technically, it could have made a pass there & been widened out by the tidal current flow & more eruptions. Can’t really tell from the maps as to precisely where the Pass is though, so hard to tell whether a super volcano would do it. One augmented by a local earthquake fault line might do the trick though.

You’re right about the local extinctions. There’s a theory being investigated as to whether the Toba eruption almost wiped us (humans) out 74,000 years ago.

Maybe a better idea is move any Japanese that want to stay down to Grik City, bring over some ‘dames’ from the RRP, and start developing Madagascar with machinery and resources shipped out of Songze. Fills up empty Alliance hulls coming back from Songze.

They’re used to working with Grik, so Geer’ki can become a go-between. Neither he or the Maroons have any bad memories of Japanese to have to dispel.

I get the feeling that Geerki is going to spend much of the Invasion of Sofesshk in front of a loudspeaker, a la Enemy at the Gates.

“Brave soldiers of the Grik Empire, there is no shame in surrender. You have nothing to fear from the Union hunters; our quarrel is with your Chooser, and bloodthirsty Esshk! If you wish to live, do not resist. Throw down your weapons, and approach the nearest Union patrol with your hands above your head…”

The new soldiers do have a better chance to think for themselves though. Remember what happened to Halik. The potential is there although in Halik’s case he had a long road to developing his own opinions and was helped along the way with Nimura and also seeing the treachery of Esshk and Kurokawa. Essk’s troops haven’t had that opportunity yet.

I’m very excited and hope you all enjoy reading it as much as I loved writing it! I’ll be getting a few copies to give away–signed, of course. Hey! How about a “Favorite Scene in the Series” contest? (Pre Devil’s Due, to avoid spoilers). Describe your choice here or on my facebook page by, say, July 4th, and three winners will be determined by how many comments agree with you!

My vote would be for the Battle of Baalkpaan. The first true battle of the Union, and in my opinion, the most key; if they had been defeated, that would have been it for the Union and the concept of the allied nations/peoples.

I was wondering how if we will see any ex-HNBC men in the empires forces. After all not all of them would have been executed, and reasonably it would be much too extensive to execute all or most of them. We could expect those involved in the bomb plot, those who actively aided the Doms, and severe war crimes would be punished executed. But for the rest its a lot of trained men who have experience at least in logistics if you don’t include expired crews and captains. It might not be best to employ them against the Doms at first due to the betrayals that have occurred but I would think they could be valuable against the Grik. Not to mention I doubt they would be as cold to the Americans after having to see what they are holding back. Thoughts on seeing them or how they would be employed?

The fact that the many crew members and officers were allowed to sign back on to the real navy without problems indicates that these who were causing problems were all very high company and they kept it close to the vest. This is shown by the great number of ships that were described as captured by the Doms on the day they took over those in their port without the captains knowing anything.
Had it been me, I would have had the ships taken over on arrival so that none could escape because there would not have been any warning at all.

Lawrence needs he’s own adventure away from the rest of the cast so he can graduate from side-kick/comedy relief.

He’s in command of crappy little tug at the moment with only Grik as crew. Huge storm comes in and the tow rope parts and BOOM! Lawrence is off towards exotic parts unknown and adventure! Maybe he can rescue himself a girl friend and discover some goodies or people brought over from our world.

It would be good/interesting seeing him taking a more leadership type role.

Or he could go ashore on a pre-attack intel run up river on the main land to get some specifics on what Esshk is up to in book #13. Say he start’s with support, Silva & company, gets cut off & has to improvise, adapt & overcome.

I like Justin’s idea of hooking up with the new CM. Maybe kidnapping her. Or she may even come willingly, he IS a handsome devil after all. She may be old enough to start being able to think for herself & see she’s going to be Esshk’s & the Chooser’s puppet & be looking for some way to change that. May have an agenda of her own, poorly thought out at first, but association with Larry may give her some ideas.

Well if she does come along she will probably mate with Pokey not Larry. Pokey will probably look more normal than Larry June Larry strange coloring pattern that she is not used to. By then even Pokey might be a smart guy as the lizards seam to grow in intelligence as they age and he will be more than two years old by then

I can see Halik sending a team to Rescue her from those who have her. But also we must remember that there are a bunch of the high class females that escaped so all would need to be captured to have any real lingering effect. Those not captured would need to be killed.

I’m hoping the Republic sees some action in Devil’s Due as they are rather differently equipped then the Alliance, and I think this could make for some very interesting encounters- especially on the naval front with those coastal defence monitors.

I’m really hoping for a few Republic/ German characters that we’ll get to follow for a good few chapters at least. I’m also hopeful that we will see some soldiers equipped in the way Ernst Junger describes in his WW1 memoir “Storm of Steel”- basically many pistols, a shovel, pickaxe or knife, and a few grenades for close in trench fighting.

Given the current internal tension in the League, we should indeed expect a lot of resentful Germans defecting to the Allied powers in the next few books. Fiedler himself might not though – so far, he’s only really warmed up to Muriname’s faction.

I’m not sure the Weimar republic would be as helpful at pulling them over due to unhappiness over the depression it found itself in during its short time in control. But older officers and young men with loyalist (to the monarchy) parents would be more likely to side with a nation that had other WW1 veterans. Not to mention the outrage at hearing the French members killed what many would consider a warrior hero. Despite the captains age he was quite the German warrior and died going up against great odds. Something that many of the unhappy and mistreated Germans could rally around. The sinking of the Amerika might have a much bigger backlash than the league could ever expect.

I always wondered if a South Carolina class Battleship had a standoff with the Savioe Battleship in a 1v1 fight.

I know that the South Carolina class battleship has smaller guns, but it has an absurd amount of citadel armor. I think it’s like 405mm everywhere on the citadel. Also the South Carolina has at least 315mm of hull armor.

The savioe on the other hand I think has considerably less armor, But obviously has slightly bigger guns, has more guns per turret. So I’ve wondered, Which ship would be victorious? The South Carolina class battleship, or the Savioe Battleship?

South Carolina has a number of issues limiting its ability. For one, it might have difficulty penetrating the Savioe at range (I’ll have to look up the specific guns in question for more detail) In addition, the SC has rather poor secondaries, and is also pretty darn slow. I’d say it would be basically a coin flip- down to crew skill, luck, and whoever had better fire control.

If we’re talking about WoWS, Savoie is mostly likely a Tier 5. Against a Tier 3, she wins.

If we’re talking about a real fight, their armour’s about the same.
Bigger guns also means greater range. Combined with the fact that Savoie is a couple of knots faster, Carol’s going to take a few hits before she’s even in range – that is, if she can even catch up.

//I always wondered if a South Carolina class Battleship had a standoff with the Savioe Battleship in a 1v1 fight.//

Not a chance.

“South Carolina” is much weaker in terms of armament (she have only eight 12-inch guns against “Savoie” eight 13,5-inch guns), slower (18,5 knots as best against “Savoie”‘s 20), and have weaker deck armor. Her only advantage was the slightly thicker belt around magazines.

Even if the “South Carolina” would have some upgrade in 1930s – and this is almost completely impossible, the US Navy considered her obsolete even before World War I – she would be much weaker than “Bretagne”-class superdreadnought.

I just re read the last book and I am beginning to realize that Taylor has big plans for Halik. Too much going on with and around him for anything else. My suspensions are that at a minimum there will be a temporary partnership to remove Kurakawa which most likely wont work as I see him escaping and joining the doms. He will most likely be too pissed with the league to run to them on any permanent basis. If he is forced to go to the league then he will find a way to get them to send him to the doms.

A long way for Kurakawa to run, to an uncertain future. Don’t see how Don Hernan and he could coexist as leaders unless K was given his own empire. Plus, without the Japanese workers and his inventory, he’s up the creek.Or, the League and the Doms working together. What would be scarier… is if the NUS throws in with the League…

Just finished my umpteenth read through of the series and I have to wonder how/why the USS Walker keeps on keeping on. Time for Captain Reddy to upgrade to something with a bit more teeth and let the poor Wickes class destroyer rest. I know its been built up as a icon but really its just not up to the job anymore and hero ships as characters in their own right doesn’t really work in a universe where ships can die just as easily as everybody else and are whole lot bigger targets.

I think light cruiser! light cruiser! is more likely. Especially since they have one under construction. With our heroes familiarity with the Omaha class, current tech limits & the series being about a 4-piper, it’ll probably be a 4-piper light cruiser, using the rest of Amagi’s 5.5″ guns as a main battery, with 4″ DPs as secondary armament. Hopefully, by the time it’s operational, they’ll have some 25mm & .50 caliber AAA.

Well, if you could build a CA, you could build a BC as well, actually. Heavy cruisers weren’t “organically formed”; they were the result of Washington Treaty, which allowed them as maximum non-capitalship class.

So, if you could build a 10000 CA, you could build a 25000 ton BC as well. And the price would be less than 50% more, because majority of components would be the same.

They’re going to have to up the ante on guns. They’ll want to at least match or be in the neighborhood of a known threat (Savoie), so I figure they’ll have to get the Republic to try & make at least a 13″ or large main battery. Send them parts, specs & drawings of Amagi’s turret system also, as a starting point.
Also, to get enough speed for a large BC, they’ll have to develop a bigger turbine/boiler setup, probably with super heat & a high & low pressure turbine per shaft. So a BC is several years down the road.
They could go with a “super CA” though, basically a light BC at about 15,000 tons with light armor & a Republic main battery. Going with four of the improved Walker turbine sets & whatever the Republic is already building that’s “bigger & better” than their 8″ guns the monitors have. You could put 6 11-12″ guns on a hull like that & still get 30 knots or so.

//They’re going to have to up the ante on guns. They’ll want to at least match or be in the neighborhood of a known threat (Savoie), so I figure they’ll have to get the Republic to try & make at least a 13″ or large main battery. //

Well, I mentioned this several times before: they may use a composite gun approach.

You see, the average heavy gun is made from high-tensile steel. And requires a large quantites of such material – which is not easy to produce in sufficient quantites. There are two main approaches with the gun design – the british one, when the inner tube is covered by layers of wire, and the european one, when the inner tube is hooped to produce required durability. Problem is, that the required ammounts of high-quality steel is outside the Destroyermen capabilities.

But there is a different approach: the composite gun. They existed; they served. The Spanish in 1880-1890 produced a large number of Ordonez heavy rifles – up to 12 inches! – with only small ammount of steel used.

The typical Ordonez gun was composed of steel inner tube, cast-iron body and wrough-iron hoops. The gun were heavier than the all-steel gun of the sape pressure, but workable and durable. Several of them served up until 1930s!

That’s the approach, I think, the Alliance should use on their battlecruisers. The heavy guns with only the inner tube is steel – and the outer body is cast-iron, strenghtened by the wrough-iron hoops.

//Also, to get enough speed for a large BC, they’ll have to develop a bigger turbine/boiler setup, probably with super heat & a high & low pressure turbine per shaft. So a BC is several years down the road.//

Nah, they already have turbines for light cruisers. The BC could use the same, just twice the number.

//So, if you could build a 10000 CA, you could build a 25000 ton BC as well. And the price would be less than 50% more, because majority of components would be the same.//

Problem is that nobody in the Union has any experience with large hulls or large guns. Best start (relatively) small, iron out all the bugs, then work your way up… otherwise you’re like the Soviets trying to build a Sovetsky Soyuz.

//Nah, they already have turbines for light cruisers. The BC could use the same, just twice the number.//

//There are two main approaches with the gun design – the british one, when the inner tube is covered by layers of wire, and the european one, when the inner tube is hooped to produce required durability. //
The DDmen can do the steel barrel liner & they’re making steel wire (or can)). A composite gun with that & the Spanish wrought or cast iron body would work.
However the Republic is already making large caliber guns. Either have them make the BC main battery or bring some of their gun makers up to Balkpaan to upgrade the gun works.

So far the Alliance (if I recall correctly) has been unable to produce quality armor plate. That could prove to be a real issue against the league as the League has proper naval guns- ones that could sink the Walker with ease.

//First one Omaha by the end of ’44, then as Union shipyards get comfortable with making CLs, a large CA (20kT?) around ’45 or ’46, then a couple of BCs.//

A Ca @ 20kt would be a BC. The largest WW2 US CAs were about 14kt. You could mount 6 12″ rifles on them or 8 x 10-11″. These would be good sized & armed to take on anything but a BB. That’s where the speed comes in. See a BB & run like hell (the original Fisher concept).
However two turbines per screw needs some sort of complex synchronizing gear or a clutch to match the turbines speed at the shaft. Could go with a double reduction gear with a clutch on each turbine. Once they’re clutched in, use a valve control to equalize the steam pressure on each turbine…maybe…possibly.
Bill, help! I’m well out of my depth here!

Plus you’re up to eight turbines & 16 boilers which will increase the size of the hull. With what they’re currently running that would be about 108k shp & jack the hull up around another 5k tons. The WW2 US cruisers were running around 110k shp @14k tons & 33 knots…ish. At 24-25k tons & 108ish shp, you might get 27-28 knots, which is too slow to run from the late 1930s BBs or even CAs of the League.
Plugging 8turbines & 16 boilers into a 14k hull, takes us to 18-20k tons & 30+ knots. On a hull that size 8/9 x 12″ rifles are doable & it becomes interesting. If they go with super heated steam & turbines to take it, the tonnage goes down.

Whoa, Lou, you are aiming too high. I was thinking about 25-27 knots battlecruiser, not the 30+ knots one. 25 knots would be pretty enough to outrun old battleships, and stay more or less in line with destroyers and light cruisers.

My bet on the “Leonardo da Vinci”, but the point is, 28-knot speed or more would require… certain sacrisfies in other areas. I.e. weaponry, protection, range or seakeeping.

The Alliance obviously could not build ships with limited seakeeping ability – not with strakkas around. They need range, also, to be able to cross the vast ocean theaters.

So, we are down to weaponry and protection. Frankly, I’m reluctant to lessen the protection – one of the Alliance most important advantages is that the Alliance could repair heavily damaged ships. And, we would probably stuck with Harvey armor, so the plates would be thicker (and heavier) than cemetned with the same level of protection.

So, we could lessen only the armament – and I think, that BC need at least 12-inch guns to be viable against League heavies.

IMHO, the 28+ knots are too much. 25 knots would probably be enough; I really doubt that League have full squadrons of fast battleships around!

Well, when I worked on such design, I stated several main goals for battlecruiser:

1) To be able to engage and destroy any League units short of capital ships (i.e. destroyers, light cruisers and heavy cruisers).

2) To be able to engage League’s capital ships, providing support to the Alliance light units and/or covering the possible advance/retreat.

3) Serve as “escort-breaker” for the nighttime attack against League’s navy, leading the destroyers formation.

Basically, the functions of “Kongo”-class battlecruisers after their refit in 1930s.

So, my general idea was the 25000+ ton ship, of 24-27 knots, armed with three dual 12,5-inch mounts (ten 4-inch secondaries, four autocannons and four triple torpedo tubes) and protected in vital parts again 13-inch shells.

//Say, Lou, which year are you using? I’ve got ’29 for the hull and ’37 for the engine.//
Justin, I didn’t know you could do different years on the engines. I was just doing estimates anyway. I do have a few design studies in Spring Sharp. One is w/6×14″ guns @ 19k tons. At 100k shp it’ll do 30+ knots, at 54k shp (what they have now) she’ll do 26 knots. That’s running w/5″ main belt & 4″ deck.
Ah! Now I see where the two years come in, the first page. I’ve been going ’45 for both. I’m going to have to redo it, but have to run right now, back in a few hours.

But will it be an Alliance home build or an import from another universe?

With the author reaching into What If universes for adversaries I do wonder if he will want to do something similar regarding Reddy and the Alliance, explore some of the ‘drawing board but never built’ designs the US contemplated but never got around to actually laying down before they were over taken by events or technology.

Of course there are a lot of drawbacks to going that way not the least of which is since they were never built nobody knows if they work or not, so probably not.

Here’s a potent thought- what if, in the next book, we meet an adversary who, contrary to the trend of sociopaths and madmen who seem to oppose the Alliance, is instead basically a doppelganger of Captain Reddy?

Someone who cares deeply about their men, is able to make smart, cunning decisions both on the battlefield, and in the political office.

Who has the loyalty of his men not from fear, but from their knowledge that he will lead them to victory.

Do you guys think such a character would have a place in the story? how would it effect future developments?

There is a brick General that meets this descriptio. He has not been mentioned much since he was kicked out of India other than kicking the ass off another brick Army trying to get back to his people and bringing his army with him safely.
I suspect Taylor has great plans for him in the next few books.

I’m times I hate voice input on cell phones you really need to check every word my last really got messed up saying brick for Grik. I also hate the spell checks that mind gives me after I hit send sometimes.

Here I will only say that, while some nutcases remain rampant, years of war do tend to eventually breed degrees of competence. Sometime to a disconcerting level. If nothing else, idiocy is one of those self-correcting behaviors. People who are too stupid to live . . . don’t. It’s too bad that they usually take a lot of good people with them. But if the “fittest” survive long enough, they tend to rise to the top. Still, remember that we are dealing with a lot of very weird cultures that flat don’t always THINK anything like “we” do. This can hurt them, but it also makes them unpredictable.

I always wondered why Grik general Halik did not actually surrender and offer the services of his army to Ready. It just shows that my understanding is incomplete as I assumed that survivors of battle in his culture would do so if offered if they had not suffered Grik Route.
Cannot wait for the next book and I see The book has been named answering the question i asked last week.

That’s simple, Donald. (Sort of). basically, Halik didn’t know he COULD surrender. The concept didn’t even exist in his mind. Remember, he was just as surprised by the surrender of troops in the Indus River Valley as anyone. And it probably never occurred to Alden to ask Halik to “join the hunt.” He was, in fact, certain the People (any people) could never truly live in peace with Grik. Totally new notions for both of them, but both are becoming more pragmatic. And the Grik “snipes” that changed sides on the Tatsuta Class tug were not warrior Grik. They are actually rather “new” themselves, basically subservient to anyone who tells them what to do. Still consistent with their earlier culture, but not beaten into them that they will be slain if they flee from battle, only if they shirk their duties. Castes within castes have been seen before, but early contact with Grik Indiamen, in which even the sailors were warriors, set the Allied mindset. “Snipe Grik” have way too much to occupy them to worry about fighting physical combat. They would probably “rout” if attacked–or maybe not. Here’s one for you. What about other more technical Grik, taught even to operate cannon or other weapons, but not taught (or expected) to engage in direct physical combat? How might they react with it forced upon them? The Grik are a monolithic culture on the surface, but the seeds of its own subversion are quickly sending shoots into the cracked foundation. One reason Esshk is pretty sure he’ll have to roll back all the changes he has instituted if the Grik are to return to the way things were. What are the chances of that?

Backtracking, Halik probably wouldn’t have surrendered, particularly in India, because from his perspective only a Regent (or its equivalent) can join another hunt and he rejected the notion of him having that capacity for a very long time. Besides, he was still very “Grik,” and devoted to the idea of the Celestial Mother as his God on earth.
There was also the burgeoning and real loyalty he felt toward Esshk, (second only to the Celestial Mother in his mind), influenced by (warped) Japanese Bushido code–that even his friend has begun to reject–ultimately influencing Halik to question his loyalty to Esshk “right or wrong.”

He has been a very confused lizard, working a lot of stuff out on his own, probably the first time a Grik general has ever done so. Possibly not the LAST however, for good or ill.

Still, Halik’s greatest loyalty is now to his army and it remains to be seen what he will do with it. I’m only about half sure myself. When I get into “Grik think” I am often surprised by the motivations I suddenly consider pertinent.

I had hoped you’d get a kick out of the announcement. The funny thing is, I am always told to keep mum about the title and cover art until they say I can release it–and every time, they go ahead and beat me to it without telling me, leaving me looking like a heel for still telling people I can’t blow.

Hmm, hij Geerki talked General Arlskgter to offer to join the Alliance troops at Rangoon in Rising tides. The idea come from the Japanese Geerki had worked with as a procurer of supplies. Some of the Grik Generals may have had training from other Japanese and learned of the concept of surrender before the Japanese mentors retreated to Zanzibar. it will be fun to see how Taylor develops this, some may thake Bushido die for the Celestial Mother before dishonorable surrender, others may think for themselves surrender is an option in a no win situation. My guess is a mix.

Thinking of the end game Esshk might realize to fight modern armies means the Grik can no longer afford unthinking uhl and thus the Grik culture evolves. The Chooser and Esshk have already discussed the Celestialmother becoming more of a figurehead who reigns rather than the older form where she rules, so Grik culture is already a changing.

Yeah, it was, Donald. Pretty ironic!
Actually though, Halik couldn’t have known of previous surrenders (or attempts to do so) such as the Grik at Raan-goon. And they were pretty weird and out on a limb long enough that they had become, well, not “independent,” but a little disassociated. They were the first example of large scale aberrant Grik behavior if you think about it. And Hij Geerki wasn’t a warrior. Otherwise, “routed” warriors, such as Pokey, only cooperated after they were away from the pack for a while, if they survived. There were some exceptions. Rasic Alcas’ guards are an example, but they too had been basically abandoned. A recurring criteria seems to be “being alone with one’s thoughts” for a while, or in other words, possibly an opportunity for a little introspection and mental maturation. These things rarely occur in any society in the midst of “group think.” Sorry. Didn’t mean to get so philosophical.
Speaking of things that are amazingly philosophical, I saw two examples of evolution in action last weekend. First was a pair of rattlesnakes as big around as my forearms (which are fairly large). Neither one rattled. Of course, as noted before, those that do are gulped down by feral hogs. Second was what has become a new species of wolf. These started as “coy dogs”–coyote/dog hybrids–that were generally larger than coyotes and had a reddish tint. Over time, they have reproduced and established themselves as predators colored like a dark coyote and about the size of a German Shepherd. Otherwise, they act like coyotes, running and hunting in packs, highly social and vocal, but their call is louder and deeper than coyotes. Pretty amazing. Of course, they are very hard on the deer population.

When I was referring to previous surrenders I was referring to those who surrendered to join the hunt like the Japanese did and the feferance that others had been allowed to do so. I don’t remember which book but it was I believe book 3 0r 4.

Remember also, though, that the Japanese smashed 3 attempts to swarm them under–in a leaking, creeping ship. It did remain supremely powerful however, and Kurokawa enjoyed “regent” status of his own hunters from the start. The American D-Men were never seen that way since they joined the “prey that got away,” which had been established in Grik genetic memory as an example of a foe that HAD to be vanquished. The Grik and ‘Cats became like cats and dogs, with no accommodation possible (without a seemingly very improbable familiarity) I say this because there are ALWAYS exceptions.
Weird example: My wife and daughter rescued a very stupid cat. His name, in fact (because I used it often enough that he started answering to it is . . . Stupid.) Well, oddly, Stupid has sort of become MY cat in a bizarre Petey reverse analog sort of way. (Petey definitely predates him). ANYWAY, my daughter has an Aussie Shepherd that is arguably far stupider than the cat with the exception that her initial obsession was to murder him. He simply refused to allow that outcome, showed no fear, and thwarted the dog’s murderous impulses with measured violence–and more importantly–disdain. He was probably too stupid to know he should be afraid. The only thing that scares him is “death from above” in the form of owls, hawks and buzzards, since I imagine he witnessed the murder of one of his siblings whose raptor mauled corpse I discovered in the yard. The point is, ultimately, the dog is STILL obsessed with him in a bizarre . . . unnatural way that resembles nothing more closely than WORSHIP now. She follows him around, staring at him from a distance of about 3 inches, even when he is asleep. Eeewwww! When he suddenly attacks her (in play) she acts like she has been chastised by her God. It is creepy weird, but ultimately, she has become Stupid the cat’s PET. This has all been a relatively recent development over the last year or so, but it’s eerie how it reflects some of the changing relationships in the series, isn’t it?

Yes, Alexey, it was. Although I am not utterly opposed to the notion of certain kinds of genetic memory. Instincts spring to mind, and from a more complicated angle, so do certain predispositions, manifested in what we refer to as “talents.” I’m sure we could have an interesting debate about such things.

Well, according to some modern recearchs, some stresses actually could be imprinted in DNA. The mechanics is not completely clear, but seems to be RNA-based. It isn’t the sensoric data; more likely it’s the lessened response to the similar stress factors observed from the offspring. I.e. the offsprings of the speciemens, that lived under constant stress would likely be more resistant to said stress.

Oh, and on the note of “other hunters who have joined the hunt,” the dark outcomes of those associations were hinted at long before the discovery of some of their surviving “examples” on Madagascar. One might suppose other examples may not have survived to be installed in their zoo.

I think the only problem potentially with that type of character could be that a character like that might be hard to hate. I hate kurokawa and the grik. ive come to actually like Halik, who is nearly a match for matt in the respect from his troops department. i also hate the doms.

Better yet, since we’re talking about hypothetical universes, what would happen if another Matt Reddy came through? Maybe from the same universe as the League? Maybe ends up as the commander of the New US?

Okay so I have a couple of questions to pose to the rest of the forum. First I was wondering what you guys thought about the Japanese reactions to the alliance members being among them. Will any of the Japanese be curious as to how the unions life is? Will that breed changes in views or get any of them to lose heart? Will the alliance members mention how their Japanese prisoners have been freed to Japan and are now allies?

On a totally different note I have been wondering this since some guys speculated about Herring, but do you guys think any of the fellas are actually gay in the book? It would be interesting to see how any would be treated in this 1944 world or in the other cultures like the Empire. Dont worry I’m not here to screech like a banshee about equality and all that stuff I’m mainly just curious about how that would affect things.

I think culture will be the telling thing in both cases. Among the Japanese being a prisoner is a grave loss of face, I expect the guards will be brutal, and not interested in a foreign culture. After all everyone knows Japanese Culture is superior, and Emperor Hirohito is descended from the sun god 😉

As to the gay question remember at the time homosexuality was classed as a sexual perversion, its practice severely punished, and its practice a sin in the majority Christian Religion. Now in societies without women, prison, and the Navy, and given the “dame famine” it is possible that sexual relations between men might be winked at, but remember heterosexuals will always prefer women if available, thus any acceptance will evaporate now that the “dame famine” is over. Overt racism was practiced then too, and Taylor has for the most part made the Asiatic Sailors more tolerant than the probably were actually. One reason might be the Lemurians were a different species not just another human race. Other thoughts guys?

I highly doubt Reddy would flog or hang anybody. Not unless Bernard Cornwall takes over writing the next book.
The Empire maybe, but they do seem to be slightly more enlightened than their OTL contemporaries (less racist, pro-conservation, etc).

You know when it comes to floggings in the empire I could actually see the company ships being either more or less caring about it than the navy. But I would expect the floggings or worse punishments to be at the ships Capitan’s discretion. Where one might be quite understanding to some of his crew members urges as long as they work hard and no troubles arise some others might go very far. After all they are far from anyone and the leadership is pretty much its own court at that point, law of the sea as it were.

Well, we knew only a bit about the Company) They appeared and disappeared rather quickly)

They were corporative sub-government, so their onboard policy was probably more controlled by the therms of efficiency&strict control over subordinates, rather than traditions&morale considerations. On the other hands, they were around for more than a century – so, they clearly formed their own traditions…

I really wish I could have known more about the company, I hope we run into some ex members in the future. After all not all of them would have been killed and im sure like Billingsley I bet even the ones who would have been subversive would throw in just for a chance to kill the Doms. It would be cool to hear from one of those fellas.

Quite agree! It was stated that the majority of Company’s personnel was strictly anti-Dominion (that’s why they were so devastated when Dom’s infiltration became clear). They were against the ruling monarchy, but it was power struggle, internal.

Actually Dom’s infiltration saved Empire from a lot of troubles. If the situation was still just internal – Company against the Crown – it would clearly led to a civil war within the Empire.

I really wish I could have known more about the company, I hope we run into some ex members in the future. After all not all of them would have been killed and im sure like Billingsley I bet even the ones who would have been subversive would throw in just for a chance to kill the Doms. It would be cool to hear from one of those fellas.//

Remember the Governor of Califorina escaped to the Doms during a fake hunting trip and might pop up again if Taylor so wishes. We are to the point in the story now that the Grik, Japanese/Grik, or the Holy Dominion will soon be taken out. As bad alliance loss have been all of the above have been pounded. My own thought is the Japanese/grik will fall first, then the Holy Dominion, and finally the Grik. I see a cold war developing with the League. We know from Courtney’s book parts of the Former Holy Dominion join the Union [Prologue Straits of Hell.]

//My own thought is the Japanese/grik will fall first, then the Holy Dominion, and finally the Grik. I see a cold war developing with the League. We know from Courtney’s book parts of the Former Holy Dominion join the Union//

Hm. I assumed that means that Dominion fragmented without being utterly conquered.

Most likely a quiet word from the chiefs that the Dame famine is over and that form of release is no longer tollerated is all it will take. If it continues, “Oops so and so fell overboard.” We do not know how the Lemurian culture reacts to same sex couples, but given acceptance of Human-Lemurian couples it is likely they are more tolerant of what connecting adults do in their own bed rooms. As to the Republic less so, and the New US and the Empire probably less tolerant and more likely to bring out the Cat of nine-tails. As to Matt, as noted I think the crew will take care of the problem, but Matt is likely to order a know homosexual out of the American Navy Clan. Homophobia was common in the 1940s, and being called a “homosexual” or its then common pejoratives was an insult generally met with fists. I should mention men back then tended to settle things like disrespect and name calling for themselves, and society now is very different. Back then gay meant light hearted and happy. I will repeat the pejoratives, as it is inpolite to cause readers harm you are warned. Fag, fagot, queer, cornholer, bugger (more an UK term than American) are some of the common pejoratives used for gay people. Some times slang could get one in trouble, at the time the common British term for a cigrette was a fag, and the term for an informal visit could get a British person in trouble IE. “Can I knock you up a little later,” sounds obsene to an American, while an American saying “I’m stuffed,” means you’re pregnant to an Australian.

Yeah but its fun to speculate about the world it takes place in, and I dont really get how homosexual characters are any worse than people being eviscerated. I mean I’m not talking about descriptive sex scenes.

With the Dennis Silva+Risa-Sab-At Romance in the first books human+furry sex is hinted at, and let’s not forget Tabby and her breasts waving in Spanky’s face, there hsa been a little sex in the books but let’s face it the battles and struggle are the bread and butter of the stories. And least we forget remember the scene in Storm Surge between Kurokawa and his young orderly, nothing overt just Kurokawa’s fanticy. Note Japanese culture is more tollerent of homosexuality that American culture of this time, and they are still in a dame famine. So the subject has been broached in the series, and may be revisited.

Oh something else is tokenism adding a character so you have a (fill in the blank here) character only to show you have such a character and are not slighting the (fill in the blank here) community. This type of of politically correct writing gets tedious, and is historically inaccurate. Yes Virginia the USN of the early 1940s was almost pure vanilla, and heterosexual, or hid their homosexuality that was how it was in those times. Note even an absolute dictator like Kurosawa controlled his impulses. Now Don Hernan is a heterosexual pedophile and sadist who Taylor admits makes him feel creepy writing about.

Yeah I really dislike tokenism for the sake of catering to everyone no matter the setting, thus the reason in my first post I made sure to say that I’m not yelling about that. I was afraid this thread may sound like that.

Agreed on tokenism topic. Never see any point in introducing some character (women, homosexual or of another race) just to seems “tolerant”. The sample of main characters in any given novel is relatively small, after all. It’s statistically impossible for them to represent the whole spectre of humankind variations.

Most point out, that it wouldn’t be tokenism for:

– Side characters, outside of main cast. Simply speaking, there are much more of them, so statistically talking, there are more probabilities for them.

– If the situation is part of plot/subplot. For example (talking about Destroyermen) if some newly-transferred high-ranking USN officer would start to push Reddy to discharge some of his men, whos homosexuality became accidently known. And Matt would be forced to find some solution between demand to “do by the book” and his own
unwillingness to punish the men.

Pffft, so overused. Heh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be someone like Juan. And before any jokes are thrown about about him and Matt I’m not thinking like that. Silva is already established as having a strong taste for the ladies and as many as he can find (reminds me of my dad even down to the blonde hair). But Juan gas never really seemed affected by the dame famine and never really seemed as overjoyed when it ended. He has always been very focused on his work and never showed weakness in any situation. I see a lot of gay servicemen be the same way and work tirelessly and be even more tough like they need to prove something to those around them. I mean Juan even lost his leg and jumped right back into his steward work without missing a beat.

Hm. Actually, this make quite a lot of sence, about Juan. Also (if he turned to be gay) for him it would mean a lot less problem than from others. He is outside the usual ranks, he is respected by the crew, and he proven himself a lot.

If he ever had any reason for it to even come up it would probably be linked to the time he spent in the empire away from the crew recovering from the loss of his leg. That would most likely be the only time he would have met another gay fellow since all of this started. Plus being away from the crew would make it easier for him since he could fear how people would treat him if that did come out. It would be pretty shitty to have your family look at you differently or focus on that one aspect rather than how things were before that and that would be one of the greater reasons for members to hide such things even with such a close crew. Not to mention he would be horrified if Reddy treated him differently since he really just seems to look up to him.

Agreed. The Empire was out of focus far too long, IMHO. And they lived trough quite “interesting times” – enemy attack, attempted coup, sudden state of total war, collapse of economical model, assasination of Governor-Emperor by military officers…

Probably not everything right in the Empire right now. After all, the Imperial society is pretty much… outdated. They were thrown from slave-based capitalistic era into the industrial post-nationalistic era of total warfare.

They probably have a lot of radical conservatives (who want to “return to old ways, like before all this horrible mess”) and radical revolutionaries (who want to “more reform! more social equality! abolish monarhy!”) chasing each other with knives and pistols) Some riots probably too; both from the former slaveowners, and from disstisfied commoners. Basically, they lived through close analogue of the French Revolution.

And, of course, the fact that high-ranking military officer was involved into the regicide plot…

I wonder: are there Comissars and Imperial Sequrity guys onboard the Imperial warships now – to watch over the officers loyality?)

//On a totally different note I have been wondering this since some guys speculated about Herring, but do you guys think any of the fellas are actually gay in the book?//

Well, there is undoubtedly a lot of homosexuals in Destroyermen’s world) Problem is, that there aren’t than many of them statistically, to guarantee that someone from main cast “statistically must be a gay”.

//It would be interesting to see how any would be treated in this 1944 world or in the other cultures like the Empire.//

Well, my position about this…

– The Empire probably not bothered much about that. Remember, that they came from XVIII century, i.e. before Victorian era, and their culture is pre-victorian. Moreover, they came thorugh a bottleneck with only a limited numbers of females avaliable in early period. And, well, humans are social creatures) If there are much more males than females avaliable, males started to form some bonds with each other.

So, my opinion about the Empire – “don’t ask, don’t tell attitude”. Everybody knew that there are a lot of homosexuals around, but as long as everything is “within the framework of decorum” externally, no one would bother to do anything.

– The Republic was formed by different cultures, some of them have tolerable attitude toward homosexuality, some probably not. About some we simply didn’t knew; for example, what could be the attitude toward homosexuality from X century romans?) We have no X-century Roman Empire to ask!

But generally the multicultural societies are considered more tolerant. So, the Republic probably have more or less liberal attitude toward this. It is possible, that the central goverment have no point about homosexuality at all, and different factions of the Republic have their own attitude.

– The Dominion – probably the classic two-faced attitude of their corrupt and twisted religion. I.e. for simple peoples the homosexual relations are considered as sinful, but for upper priests and aristocracy there are some more-or-less clever excuses.

The general population, hovewer, might have another point of view. After all, quite a lot of pre-columbian cultures accepted homosexual relations (incas, for example)

– The Lemurians – just no data. They aren’t humans, after all. We knew a bit about their sexuality, but we knew nothing about the possibility of homosexual relations. As far as I knew, homosexuality represented in many species of animals (besides humans); so it’s possible to assume than Lemurians may also have homosexual imdividuals in their ranks.

Of course we knew nothing about their cultural attidute toward homosexuality, but I could hardly imagine that Lemurians would be extremely hostile in that case. They are, after all, pretty social and not aggressive by their biology.

– And, well, the Alliance…

I really don’t think Matt would worry, with whom his people sleeping there, as long as it is by mutual agreement. After all, he didn’t say anything about Silva’s interspecies relations – which are MUCH MORE problematic (even biologically) than just homosexual relations. His only point, I could assume would be “Guys, just do your things so I could pretend that I knew nothing about your, hm, special relationships. Is that clear? Dismissed.”

I think for the Empire it might be like how it was in Great Britain back in the day where homosexuals were closeted to outsiders but they knew eachother pretty well. The community would have dinner parties and the like where they would be open and meet eachother. During this war many would be spread across the conflict and you would probably have meetings like this.
“Charles is that you?”
“Why Anthony! How are you old boy? Have you heard anything of the other chaps”
“Ah, only some. Poor Kent went west to fight the Grik and we haven’t heard hide nor hair of him. David is a worried wreck but he is too busy with the New Wales trading company to hunt down news. But I’m doing well enough, there was a nice go away dinner before I left.”
“Such a shame about those two. But I have missed seeing any of the lads, and I regret being gone for your send off.”
“Well how about we make up for it? I got a bottle of Dom wine.”
“Ha! Sounds fantastic! And you can tell me if the others while I spin tales of fighting alongside these wild lemurian chaps.”

Must also point out, that attitude to homosexuality is purely cultural part of society, nothing “biological”/ Of course, if we are talking about humans)

And societies tend to evolve in cultural attitude rather quickly. So, without actual examples (and I really doubt that they would make any sence in novels) it’s almost impossible to predict, what would be the attitude of the Empire, Republic, Dominion or NUS & League toward homosexuals.

First of all, the bottleneck effect. With the exception of the Republic, both the Empire, the Dominion and the NUS were settled by very small number of initial settlers. I.e., they weren’t the absolute representation of their modern-days attitude and culture simply because there weren’t enough of them. For the Empire this is especially important – because they initially have pretty multicultural population.

Second, is the influence of the situation. Basically the mere fact that they are in another world, surrouned by different sentient species, and they quickly learned that other and other parallel worlds existed (at least the Republic was able to establish this rather quickly) must seriously affect the ways of thinking and established doctrines. It’s really hard to use religion as argument for some cultural basics (“our sacred books of N say so!”), if the other side could easily counter “yeah? and what exactly YOUR sacred books of N say about parallel worlds, sentient furry creatures and lizards”?

No offense to any religion, but in such specific situation, they would also be forced to adapt their teaching – or the religion would became increasingly more formal. The Dom’s churhc… well, “adapted” (sort of) to the situation by incorporating the local cults. The Empire’s shifted toward general religious freedom (with the exception of Dominion-caused distrust toward catholics), and it seems that with ewxception of the said catholic minority, the religion factor isn’t very important for them.

What I have found is that in a lot of cultures where the religious beliefs have strong stances on being anti homosexual it tends to be because they had the “be fruitful and multiply” view. In places where raising population was a major concern they needed everyone adding to it. But in other regions where that wasn’t a problem and populations were large that view fell by the wayside. So there is the possibility that in these places the strictness could be real because once the famine was solved they needed to raise populations. But I would suspect a still strong homosexual community mainly for the fact that they were sailors who came across and were stuck in that situation with no women for so long. As another of the fellas noted there statistically aren’t as many gay guys as there are straight, but from personal observations I have found there to be a whole lot more shades of gray. I know a absolute ton of different levels of bisexuals whether I was in my small home of a logging town in the Cascades or here in the marine corps (now that they can talk about it without fearing being discharged). Its just an interesting thing that you dont really think about.

//What I have found is that in a lot of cultures where the religious beliefs have strong stances on being anti homosexual it tends to be because they had the “be fruitful and multiply” view. In places where raising population was a major concern they needed everyone adding to it. But in other regions where that wasn’t a problem and populations were large that view fell by the wayside. //

Exactly. There are a lot of researchs about this matter, but they are quite far away from comprehensive.

//I know a absolute ton of different levels of bisexuals whether I was in my small home of a logging town in the Cascades or here in the marine corps (now that they can talk about it without fearing being discharged). Its just an interesting thing that you dont really think about.//

Well, the bisexuality is known for ruining a lot of neat, pretty statistical models) It’s relatively easy to make statistical observation if you have only “1” or “0” possible states of observed objects. It’s several orders of magnitude harder, if you could also have “0,9”, “0,8”, and etc.

As far as I knew, currently there is no more or less comprehensive model of bisexuality, and most statistical research tended to ignore that at all.

Mhm and that I would think would be a lot more common if the characters were to fall into some level of that. Like I think the Japanese who are looking at eachother differently might fall into that gray area. If they didn’t they would most likely just be wishing for women like crazy and going mad from the lack of them.

To return to the first part of the question Bushido forbids the shame of surrender, thus Muriname’s discourse on how ship wrecked survivors have no real choice in front of their guards to lower their antagonism.

How do you think Kurokawa will act towards the prisoners? I think he will continue Muriname’s example, he has a new toy, Savoie to play with.

Unpredictable. The main problem with Kurokawa – you never knew how exactly he would act. He is quite insane, after all; his logic is very hard to follow in most cases.

Currently, Kurokawa is clearly in very good mood. After all, he finally won a clear victory (yes, he lost two carriers, but he clearly considered them replaceable), his situation greatly improved both politically and strategically, and – yes, he have “Savoie”) So, IMHO – for at least some time he would act as a courteous host at least toward Adar & Sandra. He may even try to persuade Adar that he have no animosity toward Lemurians, he was forced to play with the Griks, and now, when he is in control, he would only be glad to negotiate a peace treaty – of course, if Lemurians would cancel their support to those nasty american warmongers. Doubt that would work, but Kurokawa may THINK that it would work… he seems to consider himself a brilliant politician.

Well, there could be a lot of pressure against Kurokawa to “solve the problem, our lord!”

And, actually, common Japanese may make things… not pleasant for Alliance female POW’s.

Of course, it depend greatly of Kurokawa’s attitude toward rape. The average Japanese officers genrally ignored the actions of their soliders toward locals (or even encouraged them), but Kurokawa most definitedly not the average Japanese officer… And he is clearly Card-Carrying Villain enough, so he did not need to kick every puppy nearby to look evil enough.

I know we all have certain things in mind when we read the books in respect of the look of the characters and people we see as those characters. I’ve an image in my mind of the look of the crew as being something like that in Operation Petticoat. Am I close to the mark with it? Always see Matt Reddy (Ewan McGregor) as being dressed in khakis like Cary Grants Captain Sherman. Pete Alden (James Badge Dale) in green fatigues as worn at the start of The Pacific.

Controversial post now. Something I’d love to see is either a movie or perhaps a mini series based on the books. But the big question is who to play the characters? I’ll list a few here but would love to see who we all (Talyor especially, as its his sandbox we’re sharing) think could play them.

Lol, glad you approve skipper. I’m stuck on a few of the others, Greg Garrett and Spanky etc. And as for the Mi Anaaka…..If you were to film this they’d need to be CGI or the same as the BBC used for Dr Who, as in really good prosthetics. But Tom Hanks for Keje is a good one.

Considering the Grik and Lemurians, it would be much easier (and likely cheaper) to make an animated film or tv series out of it. Frankly that’s something I’v been wanting since I first started reading the books a good few years back. I’d bet that some animation studio in Japan would be willing to take it up…

I agree with many of your actor pics though for either live action or just as voices. We do need a good voice actor for Kurokawa though…. not sure who I’d pick for him in all honesty.

For the Kapitan of SMS Amerika, Jürgen Prochnow would be a very good option if he’d agree to it.

True. The trick would be to find a studio that could create it in an artstyle that is relatively realistic. There was a pretty good time travel series a while back called Zipang that had a pretty good art style, but the series was never really finished.

“cant remember the name of that bar in balikpan …” The formal name “The Castaway Cook,” and the informal name “The Busted Screw.” The cook/manager/barkeep’s name is “Pepper” his favorite line is, “Ya wanna eat?”

Anyone notice Taylor’s hint that Keje-Fris-Ar and Tassat-Ay-Aracca may be romantically involved, both are single needing a mate, and their USNRS carriers, Salissa and Arracca, have linked to form a “Home” under the new constitution of the United Homes.

Hmm conspiracy theory on the Destroyermen Wiki. Fonzeppelin (Alexey Shiro on these discussions)wrote the following that I removed from the main page, “There are reasons to doubt that Anson is actually the agent of New United States; he may actually represent the different power. A lot of information, provided by him, was actually only partially true. For example, he persuaded Fred and Kari that the New United States are in open war with Dominion and ready to strike the Dominion Atlantic coast – while the actual relation between NUS and Dom’s were more like the state of prolonged cold war, and no operation against Dominion was even planned by NUS. As a result of such misinformation, the Alliance fleet was drawn into the open battle with Dominion Atlantic Fleet, and suffered terrible losses – actually for nothing.”

I wrote the following, “We learn in Blood in the Water that his report was received by the powers that be in the New United States and disseminated to military leaders like Commodore (?) Semmes.

The state of war is a cold war between the two but as we all know as far as the soldiers in the field are concerned it is always a hot war so they do things and say things as if it were a hot war. This is what my feeling towards what Samuel Anson said. As far as the navy not having heard of him that could not be considered unusual. Do not tell anyone you are spying or sabotaging and if the wrong person is caught then he can not squeal.

Very perceptive. Hmm. I don’t think I’m spoiling anything when I characterize it as a “luke-warm” war. They fight when they run into each other or get in each other’s way, but there are not necessarily any ongoing active operations.

Hey! I’m back! Sorry I was out of contact, but there was NO signal where I was! I’m going to catch up on the hundred-odd posts I missed!

Having written stories myself the temptation to use ‘punny’ names is great. Had one character attend the ‘Marquis DeSaude School for Boys.’ Welcome aboard. and consider joining the Destroyermen Fan Association of Facebook, or goat’s ass an inside joke here what Facebook sounds like in French. Link:

Thanks for the tip.
Not sure if this is a “spoiler”, but the names of several of the clans of the newly discovered Shee-Ree tribe of ‘Cats phonetically resemble the names of bands of the Comanche tribe. So, in addition to Apache ‘Cats, we now have Comanch ‘Cats. I wonder if the Texans in the Navy Clan will pick up on this?

Very, very nice. Actually about perfect for my mental image of Muriname–sans spectacles! Ha! Remember, Kurokawa has a pretty round face and his eyes slightly bulge all the time–even when he isn’t raving! Still quite amazing, and very “period” feel to the portrait.

Hm! Small, but pretty interesting technological detail – in 1940, France have prototype glide bombs in comission. They were standard 50-kg bombs, fitted with wings and gyroscopic autopilot kit. They came a few days too late to be used operationally, and it seems that french military destroyed all prototyped and data to prevent Germans from obtaining it, but still this was pretty interesting work!

What would be REALLY interesting to see, is “Kurokawa meet Adar&Sandra”. Must point out, that previously Kurokawa NEVER met or contacted any Alliance representatives of high level.

It’s quite interesting, how this could turn out. Adar is relatively skilled diplomat: he may be pretty well able to play on Kurokawa’s paranoidal tendences. I doubt that Adar would be able to manipulate Kurokawa, but to direct him to start to doubt the League (and possibli provoke Kurokawa-League conflict) – perfectly.

One wonders: Can it be that single shot fired by Sandra into Kurokawa’s head will do much more for the Union then carriers and planes. He holds it all by the force of his personality and fear he inspires.

//One wonders: Can it be that single shot fired by Sandra into Kurokawa’s head will do much more for the Union then carriers and planes. He holds it all by the force of his personality and fear he inspires.//

I really doubt that Kurokawa would be so opinionated to allow himself to talk with Sandra without her being searched first. Of course, not counting the possibility of inside work…

But what if Kurokawa visits her in her cell secure in the false knowledge she is unarmed? (Evil laugh] 😉

@ Taylor “… but when have I ever thrown in such a convenient plot device (the 1908 .380) and had it used in an obvious way? :)” Hmm, resurrecting King Scott comes close, LOL. But then authors always have God like powers in their works 😉

Hm! I wonder: we have admiral Laborde in charge of “Savoie”. Is he the League’s origin World analogue of real-world admiral (pioneer of french naval aviation, and one who scuttle french fleet in Tulon) Jean de Laborde? If so, this is a first time that real-world significant figure actively used in novels…

Here’s a question that I’ve wondered about several times, and I’m sure I’m the only one that would even think about this, but I’m throwing it out there anyway. Some people know that Douglas MacArthur was probably insane. Those that knew him the longest said so in writing, such as four star Admiral Thomas C. Hart, Commander of the Asiatic Fleet. Hart had known MacArthur since MacArthur was teenager, and since Hart outranked MacArthur and was senior to him, he was one of the few people to address him by his first name. MacArthur didn’t even allow his wife to call him Douglas. I know Taylor has studied the early days of WW2, he may have come across these reference, and there are lots and lots of examples of his insanity in the records.

Since the crews of USS Walker and Mahan (and others) have left MacArthur far behind, did his insanity play any part in having an insane character such as Kurokawa?

It is possible their isolation, MccArther in the Philippians and Kurokawa in the Destroyermen’s world caused them to go insane. Both were probably egocentric control freaks prior to the war, type A personalities who rose to the top. MacArthur’s actions against the Bonus Marchers lead to his “exile” from the United States. Kurokawa had the Storm. Of the two Kurokawa was probably closer to his country’s norm behaviorally, MacArthur was considered an “odd duck.”

MacArthur was “encouraged” to go to the Philippines in 1935 because FDR considered him to be one of the two most dangerous men in the country, the other being Huey Long. There was a very good chance that either of these two men could have become a dictator in this country. That was why MacArthur was given control of the southwest portion of the Pacific War, while many historians agree that Nimitz’s path to Japan was probably the quickest route to end the war. Two generals under MacArthur were the architects of battles that MacArthur took credit for. Generals Krueger and Eichelberger won the war in the southwest Pacific despite MacArthur’s portrayal that he won the war single handedly, rather like Kurokawa.

That said, yes, they were both complete control freaks, and had narcissistic personality disorder, which is why I wondered if Taylor purposely modeled Kurokawa after MacArthur or if Kurokawa’s insanity was just a happy accident.

One of my favorite people during WW2 in the Pacific was Orde Wingate. Tactically brilliant, but he did have a penchant for coming to staff meetings completely naked while eating a raw onion. He also favored wearing a large alarm clock around his neck, but no way was he insane like Kurokawa.

Among the Japanese, there was Shumei Okawa, who was tried as a war criminal, but most people think he was only pretending to be insane to escape prosecution.

Many of the Japanese officers ordered the wholesale slaughter of civilians, POWs and anyone else in their way. They ordered the machine gunning of American survivors in the water. Masanobu Tsuji was in charge of the Bataan Death March and ordered the killing of as many POWs as possible.

It’s a hard list to come up with, there were so many crazy people during that time frame, on both sides. Many officers rose to high rank strictly because they have narcissistic tendencies.

MacArthur often referred to himself in the third person. He also had an extraordinary memory. He once said of FDR “That he wouldn’t tell the truth, if a lie would do”. Eisenhower asked about MacArthur said that he studied dramatics under him. MacArthur also said that Eisenhower was the best damn clerk that he ever had.

Two things, MacArthur and Eisenhower hardly spoke after late 1939 when Eisenhower quit his job as MacArthur’s Chief of Staff and went back to Washington DC. Yes, there was no love lost between FDR and MacArthur, but MacArthur was insubordinate to most of his superiors throughout his entire career.

Second, insanity was not stereotypical of Japanese naval officers, some (probably most) of them were very well trained, capable and obedient officers.

The only game mentioned in the books was borrowed from the Destroyermen, marbles. Baseball has caught on among the Lemurians too. There has been mention of a lemurian game similar to baseball. I speculate with printing cards could be produced with various card games like Harts and Canasta could be played by families at home at home. It is also possible the Destroyermen might have introduced board games like Backgammon, Checkers and Chess too. These were played aboard ship to pass the time. However with the need to support the war effort and heavy work schedules they may not have become common yet.

I know their spoken language is complex, nuanced and appropriate for their society. But I don’t recall, even early on, if it was revealed that they had a written language. After all, the Cherokee didn’t have a written language until the 1800s.

I see that the Lemurians are quick to learn English — needed for science, engineering and military uses. I get that. I know the Destroyermen learn Lemurian over time. But do they learn to write Lemurian?

As far as I recall – in first book, Naga specifically stated, that before the Ancient Tail-less Ones (I.e. proto-Imperials) appeared and taught the Latin to the Home Lemurians, they haven’t got any written language, and all significant data was transferred only mouth-to-mouth. The Scrolls were written only after the first human contact.

It’s been long established that Lemurians have a strong oral tradition, (something reinforced in BITW), and the sky priests, at least, wrote in a form of Latin. (It wasn’t “sacred” and anyone could use it if they wanted, but few did). Records of barter indebtedness were kept on tablets, so one might assume merchants used limited Latin to record names and numbers. Many fairly advanced civilizations made do with less. At the same time, remember how excited Adar and others were to see written English? They immediately understood the advantages of a functioning, living, written language.

If that’s the case, why didn’t just create their own writing? Written Latin and all its descendants use an alphabet; while the rules for Mi-Anakka haven’t been defined yet, it should be simple for a Sky Priest to read and write Lemurian words sound by sound.

Well, they didn’t have enough time for this. Let’s recall, they have a written language – and very effective language, in all it’s perfection – for only about 300 years. They simply didn’t have time to form something like their own writing. And, frankly – I doubt that they have much need. Also we must consider the fact that the Latin for the Lemurians have special, near-religious place in society.

Languages do not use the same phonemes and the Latin alphabet was designed for Latin. Russian is written using the Greek alphabet with a few extra letters КАТЮШA (Katyusha) or Leonid Kharitonov (Леонид Харитонов)for example in Cyrilic and Roman letters. Phoneme the smallest unit of sound in a language, and each phoneme must have a letter or group of letters to represent it. In the above Ю is yo in Latin letters and Ш is sh sound in the Latin alphabet, и is the ee sound, н is an n, р is the letter r, etc. It could be worse see https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13174083_859682294163784_7996396462951967342_n.jpg?oh=55a356077a0c7d064a844aa04d8be76d&oe=57AEF9DA the center section for Latin and Greek letter equivalents for the hieroglyphics translation below.

Yeah, and they aren’t always based on the individual sounds of words. Take chinese. Theirs is based on a character for every word. And also, how would they decide what particular scribbling means what sound?

I imagine–someday–some scholar will try to preserve the various Lemurian languages using phonetic spellings. Particularly as Lemurian/English/and various other languages become intermixed. This has already begun. (Often referenced, but rarely shown, since doing so would likely REALLY drag the story down.) Notice a lot of Lemurian characters speak very “proper” English now? Whis doesn’t only symbolize their English skills, but the ability of other characters to understand their Lemurian. This is particularly the case when certain characters use fewer “aa” sounds for ordinary words–like “can’t.” Under stress, they might still use “caan’t,” but not often.

(unless the copyeditor does a last minute global change to a previous usage. I have a lot of trouble with that–and it’s hard to blame them. Think about how many ways I spell “Captain.” Captain, Cap-tan, Cap-i-taan, Kapitan, Capitaine . . . to name a few.)

Simply put, one way or another, when ‘Cats speak “proper” English in the story, it simply means they are wholly understandable, regardless what they are actually speaking. As time goes by, you may only notice blatantly weird spellings to symbolize ‘Cats who have very little English. Yet they are STILL understandable. That’s because their listener understands ‘Cat. Maybe I could’ve come up with a better way to do this, but of all the reviews I’ve read, this is ONE thing I’ve never seen anybody gripe about–so I guess it has worked . . .
This is a very cool discussion thread, though. Very thought provoking. Who knew, for example, that Charles was such a linguistic expert? I never even heard of a phoneme before. (In Silva mode) “Ain’t that the stink critters give off when they’re pixel-ated?”

So the choices would be to 1) adopt English or 2) like the Cherokees, come up with their own written language that fits the sounds of their oral language (per Charles, etc).

Well I could see that, with a war going on, it’s choice #1. But once the war is over (and Courtney is publishing his memoirs), I could see a Cat or two thinking about how best to preserve their traditions, and deciding that a Lemurian-specific written language is a way to do that.

I expect the first written Lemurian to use the Roman alphabet adding special letters for sounds English doesn’t have. Many Lemurians will learn English and it’s written form. A Lemurian syllabary will be invented by some Lemurian Sequoyah. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_syllabary
for Cherokee letters used for this language.

Another term for spoken language is Morphene the smallest set of phonemes to containg language. The ‘s’ sound is the smallest in English and has two meanings IE there are four Jims in my class vs that is Jim’s pencil, we difrentiate meaning ins spoken language by context in the written form by ‘s.

Very good point, Alexey. The Aryaalans, B’mbaadans, B’taavans, etc. may have a totally different written language. Aryaalans and B’mbaadans, at least, are more advanced in some ways, particularly architecture. And it was established that they shunned Siska-ta, so even if they picked up a little Latin, it was not from her early scrolls. Yet they had a wealthy aristocracy, so must have some method of keeping books . . .

Book keeping is the root of written language. The earliest inventories have simplified pics of thee item and a count. Phonetic writing comes later say a pic of a bee and a leaf to spell the word belief. Over time this morphs into simplified pics, Egyptian scripts, Babylonian cuneiform, Chinese characters etc. This devolves into the Alphabet where the pic is unimportant. For example the Egyptian word for water is nu represented by a wavy line eventually shortened to our letter N (Bet you did not know you were writing in Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics brought to us through Phoenician 😉 .) I used to joke with a German friend that while German has mile long words English has mile long sentences, our inflections are extra words rather than adding phonemes and morphemes to root words of a highly inflected language.

I like to tease a German post-doc in our program about the Germans’ ability to create a new word simply by smashing two words together. She looked at me with mock seriousness, put out her hands and said, “but how else would you DO it?”

1/ Latin is using declension, as Russian and German.
2/ Latin based languages (Italian, French, spanish, Rumanian…) all share the same basic logic: NOUN + VERB + COMPLEMENT such as “the car is blue” or “la voiture est bleue”. At the same time they have some incredibly verbs (if you speak English only you just have “to do / dit / done” while I have to know 94 variations depending on the tense and to whom I speak.
3/ English is a mix of German and latin based language. It’s grammar and spelling are easy (compared to other ones!) but pronunciation is really complicated.

and we just don’t even take into account Africa, Native and Asian languages!

———————————–

So the question is: what do they say?

Is it a descriptive language such as “sea” “animal” “swim” for “the animal is swimming in the sea” where inflections give the meaning (as in Chinese)

Is is a declension based one such as “sea-in” animal”-comlement” “swim” for “the animal is swimming in the sea”
Is it a modern latin based one such as “animal” “swimming” “in sea”?

Is it a mix with body language such as “animal” sea” (blink) “swimming” (blink blink)

Do they use tenses? Do they use the same words depending on who they talk to (as in Japanese with the polite form).

Do they have a specific accent? Is it related to words or to sense? For example in English you’ll put an accent on the word. In my language we never put an accent on the word. We put one to determine the meaning of the sentence. For me something like
“you are going to schOOL” is a question
“YOU ARE going to school” is a statement
“YOU are going to SCHOOL” is surprise
“To school you are going” is a Yoda

(BTW that’s why French people often have a problem with accents as using one in each word is seen as very unpolite/undeducated/rude)

Taylor has mentioned other non verbal Lemurian language clues in Lemurian, tail and ear position too. The blinks are however the most important, and I’m sure Stubby cusses out his marines well enough missing part of his tail.

I’ve lost my marbles! In the early books mention of glass workers making marbles as a side venture, while discussion of baseball has continued in the series where have all the marble players gone?

With paper making and printing new decks of cards are possible when are card games going to get a nod. I remember a quote from a WW 2 vet that war was moments of stark terror interspersed in long periods of boredom. Too much would make the books drag, but a little spice now and then, perhaps a letter home from a GI.

Another thing missing is education, where are the Lemurain younglings learning English and reading ‘riting, and ‘rithmetic?

Well, the main question was the rate of cross-pollination in some triticale varieties in our climatic conditions. You see, the triticale have pretty good potential to became the main grain culture in Eastern Europe and Canada. It’s gave more yields than rye, and more resistant than wheat.

comment in reply to Justin’s “Not Chief Gray? Honestly, Laumer ceased to be plot-essential as soon as S-19 went down; I was surprised that it wasn’t Isak or Silva. It was pretty much a guarantee that somebody was going to bite it in the Palace Raid.” I kinda like Chief Jeek better than I did Chief Grey myself.

Is there a way to change our avatars? I have two pics that I use: the winged hussar and fire stuff from Mount and Blade: With Fire and Sword, and an iconic picture from ksp of a probe with laythe directly infront of jool.

Perhaps a character in the Republic, or someone over in the Dominion theater? It seems like things have been going sorta rosy there lately. The perfect oppertunity to kill a Shinya or Orrin Reddy or even some Lemurian characters.

Taylor is writing # 12 now so all can’t die in # 11, General. While we a guessing will Cpt. Reddy have a son or a daughter in your opinion? Who was the most tragic death for you, mine was Irwin Laumer.

Not Chief Gray? Honestly, Laumer ceased to be plot-essential as soon as S-19 went down; I was surprised that it wasn’t Isak or Silva. It was pretty much a guarantee that somebody was going to bite it in the Palace Raid.