1. Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just pretty much leave me the hell alone.
2. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire.
3. It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
4. Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
5. No one is listening until you fart.
6. Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.
7. Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
8. If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.
9. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
10. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
11. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
12. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
13. If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
14. Sex is like air. It's not important unless you aren't getting any.
15. Don't squat with your spurs on.
16. Some days you're the bug; some days you're the windshield.
17. Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.
18. Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
19. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket.
20. A closed mouth gathers no foot.
21. Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
22. There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works.
23. Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving.
24. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
25. Never miss a good chance to shut up.
26. We are born naked, wet and hungry, and get slapped on our behind. Then things get worse.
27. Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
28. There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
29. No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.
30. There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make a big deal about your birthday...around age 12.
31. Everyone seems normal until you get to know them

Eruanna wrote:Another idea I just thought of - Try moving the entirety of those folders to your desktop instead of Program Files. It may be using VirtualStore (which may be the copy of the file you sent, as well) - causing all sorts of hairy mess if not handled properly. Virtualstore is what Windows uses on the Program Files folder if otherwise an access would be denied. In this case it should not be enabled - but it's possible that it might be. (Also, try starting GZDoom in both cases as an administrator to see if it changes anything)

FYI, between these two versions a manifest entry was added to disable the virtual store. This means that a newer GZDoom version will never be able to see any file that got copied in there.

It cannot be stressed enough: Program Files is a write protected directory. Do not store any stuff there which may get modified by external applications, and for some reason Slade does seem to do some weird stuff here.
And do not put Doom ports in there if you want to extract PWADs into the same folder. I'm not sure how it deals with other applications mucking around with it, but with Slade it seems it does make some unhealthy assumptions.

Herculine wrote:The problem appears to be SLADE and apparently Virtualstore (the latter of which I'll admit is new to me).

I moved the entirety of my Doom directory to a folder outside of Program Files, then started SLADE and, while it should then have been unable to find any files, in its history it still showed the .wads I had edited and even opened them, despite the fact that they should no longer be there. Apparently it is keeping some sort of a cache history. How GZDoom (or ZDL?) got confused by it, I'm still not sure, but this definitely seems to be the root of the problem.

Textbook virtual store thing, and absolutely 0% SLADE's fault. You tell SLADE to open a file, it tries to open it, Windows redirects the access to the virtual store where that file still exists, so the file is opened successfully. SLADE works normally and as expected, and the confusion is entirely, completely, uniquely caused by your decision to put data in the Program Files directory.

Graf Zahl wrote:And do not put Doom ports in there if you want to extract PWADs into the same folder. I'm not sure how it deals with other applications mucking around with it, but with Slade it seems it does make some unhealthy assumptions.

No assumption is made other than when the user wants to open a file, it should try to open the file. Everything is explained solely by virtual store behavior.

Graf Zahl wrote:And do not put Doom ports in there if you want to extract PWADs into the same folder. I'm not sure how it deals with other applications mucking around with it, but with Slade it seems it does make some unhealthy assumptions.

No assumption is made other than when the user wants to open a file, it should try to open the file. Everything is explained solely by virtual store behavior.

Accusatory wording notwithstanding, Graf does have a point. (I'm sorry! I don't mean this in a bad way, though..) It might be worth investigating the manifest entry that stops the Virtual Store with Slade because as has been shown quite plainly in this thread, that can be a source of confusion for users, and you saw how it took some time to even come down and nail that issue because it's completely not obvious what happens here.

In fact, you could even plainly see that I didn't even know it was a problem until I reviewed her startup logs and saw where she was loading her files from.

Just telling someone "don't put it in Program Files!!!" is really not enough.

Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

1. Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just pretty much leave me the hell alone.
2. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire.
3. It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
4. Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
5. No one is listening until you fart.
6. Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.
7. Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
8. If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.
9. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
10. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
11. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
12. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
13. If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
14. Sex is like air. It's not important unless you aren't getting any.
15. Don't squat with your spurs on.
16. Some days you're the bug; some days you're the windshield.
17. Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.
18. Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
19. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket.
20. A closed mouth gathers no foot.
21. Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
22. There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works.
23. Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving.
24. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
25. Never miss a good chance to shut up.
26. We are born naked, wet and hungry, and get slapped on our behind. Then things get worse.
27. Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
28. There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
29. No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.
30. There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make a big deal about your birthday...around age 12.
31. Everyone seems normal until you get to know them

I think the main problem here is the entirely reasonable assumption from many users that "program files" is where programs are meant to go. On the face of it, it makes sense, most programs a user installs with automatically go there and they will work properly. These days, it will be fairly alien for a user to install things into a directory that they create and name outwith Program Files.

Also, most users simply won't be aware of the special handling of what happens in Program Files. Unless you go searching for it, know what to search for and understand the ramifications of what you find, the inappropriateness of putting certain programs into Program Files, the virtual store and other associated issues are things the most users will be blissfully unaware of. Therefore, the onus unfortunately falls to the producer of the software (who should understand the issues) to make it as obvious as possible that "Program Files" is inappropriate for their program if they want users to use their program successfully.

Putting programs in program files is not a problem. Putting data in program files is. Herculine's problem wasn't caused by GZDoom or SLADE being in program files; it was caused by the wad being in there.

Eruanna wrote:Accusatory wording notwithstanding, Graf does have a point. (I'm sorry! I don't mean this in a bad way, though..) It might be worth investigating the manifest entry that stops the Virtual Store with Slade because as has been shown quite plainly in this thread, that can be a source of confusion for users, and you saw how it took some time to even come down and nail that issue because it's completely not obvious what happens here.

I've put a test.wad file in protected folder, accessed it and saved it with SLADE to create a copy in the virtual store, then quit SLADE and deleted it from the real folder. Updating the manifest to add the trustinfo thingamabob, restarting SLADE, attempting to open the file... success, the file is retrieved from the virtual store instead of failing to open. Either there's a subtlety I'm not grasping in this Microsoft mumbo-jumbo magic manifest malarkey, or it's not working as advertised and therefore useless.

Try putting two different copies of that file. It may be retreiving from Virtual Store just because the master copy no longer exists.

Spoiler: Zen Sarcasm

1. Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just pretty much leave me the hell alone.
2. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a leaky tire.
3. It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.
4. Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
5. No one is listening until you fart.
6. Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.
7. Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
8. If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.
9. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
10. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
11. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
12. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
13. If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.
14. Sex is like air. It's not important unless you aren't getting any.
15. Don't squat with your spurs on.
16. Some days you're the bug; some days you're the windshield.
17. Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.
18. Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
19. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket.
20. A closed mouth gathers no foot.
21. Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
22. There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works.
23. Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving.
24. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
25. Never miss a good chance to shut up.
26. We are born naked, wet and hungry, and get slapped on our behind. Then things get worse.
27. Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
28. There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
29. No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.
30. There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make a big deal about your birthday...around age 12.
31. Everyone seems normal until you get to know them