All - this is fantastic information - thanks much. I was not tense before - this thread has certainly corrected that. I thought a month was a ton of time. Now I am thinking about sabotage to slow down the plumbers in order to buy more time......

I am breaking out a copy of the plans and marking up where I want different services as well as where I think I may want them in the future. The main delay for me mapping out where things would go was making sure the electrical was in and HVAC ducts left me room (some areas of the remodel are tight). I should know all that tomorrow or Friday, so I will know where I can and cannot physically go.

Here is another thing to think about: Do you want surveillance? If so, then you need to sort out where you would like to mount cameras inside and outside, then run network or video or both depending on if you know which camera type you want. And maybe put a power receptacle nearby unless you want to make long power runs or run POE.

Now my wife is on board with pre-wiring. Previously, I was allowed to have dogs and guns to defend my daughter from little boys, but now I get to have video cameras!

Quick follow up question - On the topic of terminating cables - is there a benefit to terminating rather leaving it free and at a known space in the wall? Or is that just a "the jack is there when you need it and you don't have to recall how to properly terminate RJ45 in 3 years when you DO need it" thing? I am planning on terminating everything, but was curious.

If you don't want to physically put ends on the cable at the remote/wall side, at least leave them in a box with a plain faceplate over it. Easier to find and you already have the box that way.

I would terminate all of the ends at the patch panel regardless though, and make sure they are labeled and correct. Terminating the remote ends helps because then you can test them all if you want to be really thorough.

A month should be plenty of time, IF you have everything mapped out. The planning part can consume a lot of time and that is the part that gets forgotten, or short-cut. The key is to focus on what is best done while the walls are open.

You don't have to terminate the wall plates right away, that can be done at your leisure after the walls are back up. But like Z said, the wires should be in a box (usually you would use a low voltage box) and there should be a nice loop of extra wiring placed inside the box so you will have length to work with when you terminate later. Any good installer would naturally do this. Then, the drywallers should treat those boxes just like all the others (electrical, switches, etc), they will cut around it and rough finish it somewhat close to the edges. If you want to wait to do the terminations, you can screw in blank covers on top after the drywall and paint, these are cheap and you can buy a stack of them for next to nothing.

You can also do all of the terminating at the patch panel later as well. Your goal is to get the wire in the walls....

And of course, labeling is highly desired. If you don't do this then you will be faced with figuring out where each wire is later down the line, which requires more work and probably a tone generator.

A few more tidbits to consider:

- If you are getting some electrical done, also be sure you have an outlet near your home run location. You will need power right there for things like the modem, router, switch, etc.

- If there are any rooms where there will be a wall-mounted TV (this is getting more common), then consider getting electrical up the wall in that location with a recessed receptacle. Then, you also need low voltage run there as well, incluuing not only cable but some Cat5e so you can either plug in a smart TV to the internet or connect a tiny media server box to your network/NAS.

As a side note, don't attach the cable via staples to any thing. Later on you want to be able pull them out if needed if one is bad etc. Granted you are doing full walls off installs but I have seen people staple the wires to stuff when pulling to low voltage rework boxes and later on when they terminate they find one of the cables is bad for whatever reason and you can't just attach the replacement to the old one and pull when they are stapled in place.

And yes leave the terminating for after the dry wallers are there. I also recommend getting some cheap box covers at the hardware store to cover the boxes during dry walling. They make these plastic cards that basically sit inside the box front so the dry wallers can still install around the box but it keeps much of the drywall dust out of the box. That dust gets in to everything so either use a cover or at least use a cheap sandwich bag and a rubber band / tape to seal the end of the cable while the dry wall is going up. Last time I bought some the covers were 29 cents so it is cheap insurance and keeps stuff clean.

You don't have to terminate the wall plates right away, that can be done at your leisure after the walls are back up. But like Z said, the wires should be in a box (usually you would use a low voltage box) and there should be a nice loop of extra wiring placed inside the box so you will have length to work with when you terminate later. Any good installer would naturally do this. Then, the drywallers should treat those boxes just like all the others (electrical, switches, etc), they will cut around it and rough finish it somewhat close to the edges. If you want to wait to do the terminations, you can screw in blank covers on top after the drywall and paint, these are cheap and you can buy a stack of them for next to nothing.

While you can use low voltage boxes, mud rings tend to be preferable where code allows. This way you can have a larger service loop in the wall and can cut/re-terminate without running out of slack. Working with boxes is just more difficult so, when possible and allowed, I recommend avoiding them.

You don't have to terminate the wall plates right away, that can be done at your leisure after the walls are back up. But like Z said, the wires should be in a box (usually you would use a low voltage box) and there should be a nice loop of extra wiring placed inside the box so you will have length to work with when you terminate later. Any good installer would naturally do this. Then, the drywallers should treat those boxes just like all the others (electrical, switches, etc), they will cut around it and rough finish it somewhat close to the edges. If you want to wait to do the terminations, you can screw in blank covers on top after the drywall and paint, these are cheap and you can buy a stack of them for next to nothing.

While you can use low voltage boxes, mud rings tend to be preferable where code allows. This way you can have a larger service loop in the wall and can cut/re-terminate without running out of slack. Working with boxes is just more difficult so, when possible and allowed, I recommend avoiding them.

++ totally agree, I kind of meant that, and that is what I used for my rewire. Despite all of the discussion so far, there are still lots of little things like this that don't get expanded on, or we assume would be obvious. Such as the post about stapling; sure it prevents you from moving the wire, but beyond that it is never good form to apply any staples anywhere on Cat5e,that is a good way to cause network problems down the line.

You don't have to terminate the wall plates right away, that can be done at your leisure after the walls are back up. But like Z said, the wires should be in a box (usually you would use a low voltage box) and there should be a nice loop of extra wiring placed inside the box so you will have length to work with when you terminate later. Any good installer would naturally do this. Then, the drywallers should treat those boxes just like all the others (electrical, switches, etc), they will cut around it and rough finish it somewhat close to the edges. If you want to wait to do the terminations, you can screw in blank covers on top after the drywall and paint, these are cheap and you can buy a stack of them for next to nothing.

While you can use low voltage boxes, mud rings tend to be preferable where code allows. This way you can have a larger service loop in the wall and can cut/re-terminate without running out of slack. Working with boxes is just more difficult so, when possible and allowed, I recommend avoiding them.

++ totally agree, I kind of meant that, and that is what I used for my rewire. Despite all of the discussion so far, there are still lots of little things like this that don't get expanded on, or we assume would be obvious.

Oh, heck yeah. The things we take for granted is why some of us get paid, though.

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Such as the post about stapling; sure it prevents you from moving the wire, but beyond that it is never good form to apply any staples anywhere on Cat5e any cabling,that is a good way to cause network problems down the line.

FTFY. Even electrical cables shouldn't be stapled. There are far better methods of securing things these days, when appropriate.

- If you are getting some electrical done, also be sure you have an outlet near your home run location. You will need power right there for things like the modem, router, switch, etc.

A dedicated 15A or 20A circuit can come in quite handy in your network area. Don't forget some lighting as well.

I helped a friend set up his home closet; we ended up installing a small rackmount APC Smart-UPS connected to a dedicated 20A circuit. We then connected everything to a non-switched PDU. It added a bit to the budget, but since the closet location allowed mounting network, security, and A/V equipment in one place (the closet was on the opposite side of the wall from his giant TV) it worked out well. The UPS can keep the essential gear (switches + poe for the cameras, internet, wifi, NAS and a small server) up and running for most of a day.

If you do decide to rackmount A/V gear in a place separate from the TV, leave a DVD player in the main room. We ended up having to get a little one "for the kids" in the main room since I'd foolishly mounted it at normal adult height in the closet. His wife is the only one who uses it, though. The kids stream video from the server.

On the RJ45 vs RJ11, I put in all RJ45 but used different colors to denote which is which. Phone jacks are the same color as the wall plate and the network jacks are orange.

That system is still locked down though. Presumably you have punched down all of the phone jack as phone lines, so they will have one one purpose at each wall plate. Suppose you have a wall plate with 2 RJ45 jacks. You might want one for a phone, and one for a network device. Or maybe you change your mind and move the phone somewhere else and you want to have no phone there, just two network devices. If the jacks are task-neutral, then you can re-designate them in an instant back at the main panel by moving patch cords. In other words, any RJ45 can be network OR it can be phone, as decided on your whim.

That's not to say yours is a bad system though. There are different ways to approach it and it is individual preference that decides what works the best.

On the RJ45 vs RJ11, I put in all RJ45 but used different colors to denote which is which. Phone jacks are the same color as the wall plate and the network jacks are orange.

That system is still locked down though. Presumably you have punched down all of the phone jack as phone lines, so they will have one one purpose at each wall plate. Suppose you have a wall plate with 2 RJ45 jacks. You might want one for a phone, and one for a network device. Or maybe you change your mind and move the phone somewhere else and you want to have no phone there, just two network devices. If the jacks are task-neutral, then you can re-designate them in an instant back at the main panel by moving patch cords. In other words, any RJ45 can be network OR it can be phone, as decided on your whim.

That's not to say yours is a bad system though. There are different ways to approach it and it is individual preference that decides what works the best.

No, they are punched as regular ethernet, just separated on the patch panel from the network ports. I can switch them at anytime by removing the patch cable that goes to the phone punch down and plugging in a cable going to my switch. The color coding was for my ease of use and so I didn't have to label the jacks on the wall. Wrote the patch panel port # on the jack, behind the wall plate and labeled the cables going to the patch panel.

I've worked with a number of clients with their home wiring. Generally (unless client has something weird in mind), my preference is 2x cat5e and 2x coax per bed/living room with one set each pulled to opposite corners. I'll also pull 1x cat5e to some non-living spaces, like the garage, etc. I might run a third cat5e to a central location for a telephone base station then install cordless satellites wherever the client wants them. No cat3 necessary. Most everyone uses cordless phones anyway.

Wi-fi is important for tablet, wandering laptop, and smart phone connectivity. But *never* for primary communication.

If you are into central music driven from a single source, don't forget speaker cables. For surveillance cameras: IP cams, POE over cat5e. For analog cams, DC power runs with dedicated cat5e and baluns. That way, if you later upgrade to IP cams, the cat5e is already there. I prefer IP cams, generally. But they cost more.

If you want to pull 3 or 4x cat5e, fine. But why? If a room has multiple Ethernet devices (Tv, Roku, Apple TV, etc.), a small switch works just fine. Especially if turns out that a room's drop isn't where it needs to be. e.g. You move the entertainment center farther away from the drop than originally planned. If so, you'll only want a single Ethernet cable running to the jack -- not three or four! Try tucking four cables behind the tack strip (if carpeted). Not gonna work. No carpet, then it's even uglier.

I echo other comments: A dedicated circuit to your patch panel is good. But 15A service is PLENTY. 20A requires heavier romex -- not necessary. I mean, you're only powering modems and switches, unless you stuff the closet with AV server gear. And if you need 20A for that, then you'll need forced ventilation. But the OP indicated he hasn't the space.

I terminate with only RJ-45, all clearly labelled. No one except the blind or illiterate will plug in an incorrect devices, e.g. pots phone.

Having open walls for a month is a God send -- sure wish I had that opportunity. But you *can* go overboard.

I've worked with a number of clients with their home wiring. Generally (unless client has something weird in mind), my preference is 2x cat5e and 2x coax per bed/living room with one set each pulled to opposite corners. I'll also pull 1x cat5e to some non-living spaces, like the garage, etc. I might run a third cat5e to a central location for a telephone base station then install cordless satellites wherever the client wants them. No cat3 necessary. Most everyone uses cordless phones anyway.

Wi-fi is important for tablet, wandering laptop, and smart phone connectivity. But *never* for primary communication.

If you are into central music driven from a single source, don't forget speaker cables. For surveillance cameras: IP cams, POE over cat5e. For analog cams, DC power runs with dedicated cat5e and baluns. That way, if you later upgrade to IP cams, the cat5e is already there. I prefer IP cams, generally. But they cost more.

If you want to pull 3 or 4x cat5e, fine. But why? If a room has multiple Ethernet devices (Tv, Roku, Apple TV, etc.), a small switch works just fine. Especially if turns out that a room's drop isn't where it needs to be. e.g. You move the entertainment center farther away from the drop than originally planned. If so, you'll only want a single Ethernet cable running to the jack -- not three or four! Try tucking four cables behind the tack strip (if carpeted). Not gonna work. No carpet, then it's even uglier.

I echo other comments: A dedicated circuit to your patch panel is good. But 15A service is PLENTY. 20A requires heavier romex -- not necessary. I mean, you're only powering modems and switches, unless you stuff the closet with AV server gear. And if you need 20A for that, then you'll need forced ventilation. But the OP indicated he hasn't the space.

I terminate with only RJ-45, all clearly labelled. No one except the blind or illiterate will plug in an incorrect devices, e.g. pots phone.

Having open walls for a month is a God send -- sure wish I had that opportunity. But you *can* go overboard.

We hit on most of that in the discussion, but I think your summary is succinct and a good set of guidelines to work from, and I agree with everything.

On the IP cameras: Is it best then to make a double cat5e run to each camera location, one for POE and one for the network connection?

On the IP cameras: Is it best then to make a double cat5e run to each camera location, one for POE and one for the network connection?

Why would you do that? "Phanton Power" allows for running PoE over gigabit. (essentially apply DC voltage to a balanced pair signalling circuit). In fact, unless your end-node has at least two interfaces, you're idea seems superfluous at best.

Frennzy, I ask because I have never hooked one up that way so I wasn't sure how it worked. But basically what you are saying is that the single cat5e cable can be used to deliver the POE and return the signal? Which makes sense and therefore I see that a single cable to the IP camera location is all that is needed, which is great, much simpler.

Frennzy, I ask because I have never hooked one up that way so I wasn't sure how it worked. But basically what you are saying is that the single cat5e cable can be used to deliver the POE and return the signal? Which makes sense and therefore I see that a single cable to the IP camera location is all that is needed, which is great, much simpler.

Yes, that's the "O" in "POE"...the purpose and design is to deliver both power and data over the same cabling. It's very similar to things like microphones that have active electronics embedded inside them. (sorry if I came across as harsh, seriously wasn't trying to be...your question just confused me)

Frennzy, I ask because I have never hooked one up that way so I wasn't sure how it worked. But basically what you are saying is that the single cat5e cable can be used to deliver the POE and return the signal? Which makes sense and therefore I see that a single cable to the IP camera location is all that is needed, which is great, much simpler.

Yes, that's the "O" in "POE"...the purpose and design is to deliver both power and data over the same cabling. It's very similar to things like microphones that have active electronics embedded inside them. (sorry if I came across as harsh, seriously wasn't trying to be...your question just confused me)

No worries, remember some of us are networking-dumb I had it in my mind that POE meant simply that the power could be delivered over a ethernet cable, much the same way other types of signals other than actual ethernet network can be sent over Cat5e, and my brain wasn't making the connection that the point of the POE was to deliver the power AND the network over one cable, which of course is a great trick. It's funny because just last night I was having a look at those Ubiquiti Unifi access points which operate the same way. Finally I figured out that only a single cable needs to run to the AP and it will be handling both, with the power injection being done by a little black box that can be placed wherever power is convenient.

OK I'm done now, I realize that I have just made a long exposition over a point that is obvious.

Frennzy, I ask because I have never hooked one up that way so I wasn't sure how it worked. But basically what you are saying is that the single cat5e cable can be used to deliver the POE and return the signal?

The data and power can both go in both directions. It works because the data signals are AC-coupled and the power is DC-coupled and low frequency.

Imagine that, instead of a wire, you have a long garden hose. But the garden hose is stopped at both ends with rubber diaphragms. By tapping on one end you can send waves (signals) through the water to be detected at the diaphragm at the far end. The data goes through, but there's no net flow of water/current. And you can tap on either end to send data bidirectionally. This is analogous to how data gets transmitted across a capacitor- or transformer-coupled (i.e. AC-coupled) junction.

Now imagine that the water is actually flowing through the hose to provide power. You can still put a diaphragm on a short stub of the hose and tap to create your signals. As long as the water flowing through the hose is free of other high-frequency perturbations, you can still detect your data signals with a diaphragm off a stub at the other end.

That's (sorta) how power and data work simultaneously over a POE cable.

I'd run some HDMI with your coax to TV as well. You want standard def now, that's fine, but what about in 5 years when you replace the TV? Not that much more expensive to go ahead and throw some in there.

I'd run some HDMI with your coax to TV as well. You want standard def now, that's fine, but what about in 5 years when you replace the TV? Not that much more expensive to go ahead and throw some in there.

Personally, I wouldn't run HDMI at this point unless you need it in the near future, I would just make sure you have conduit in place and good pullstrings. While HDMI has been around for while, there are always updated versions coming out and although any version of HDMI cable will give you basic video/audio functionality the newer features will probably require a newer cable.

If the OP doesn't see the need for anything beyond what's available now, by all means pull some - but I would hate to have to replace it all down the line when the HDMI landscape may change (if HDMI is still the standard in 5 years).

Switching gears to the latest topic: I hadn't thought about running HDMI as a possibility in a house structured wiring scenario. I can see the potential for sending video+audio around plus maybe even more like network with the latest spec. I think you can even send remote control signals as well. But, is it practical in this scenario? Isn't there a length limit on HDMI of around 50 feet? If you can make all your runs 50 feet or less then yes it would be good. But if you need a longer run then it would be more complicated as I understand it (amps and such).

Also, another advantage for both Cat5e and coax is that you can run the bare wire and then terminate the ends later. I don't think this is possible with HDMI, at least easily. This means it would be a bit more difficult to route the cable, depending on the situation. It might not be too bad as the HDMI connectors aren't too big and are smooth-shaped.

This is an interesting thought and I think it would be worth looking at, especially runs to various TV locations can be made under the 50 foot limit. I am sure there are various HDMI splitters or distribution panels that you can set up in your wiring closet to coordinate everything, but I haven't looked at those yet. Any links to information where I can learn more on that would be appreciated.

Uh...DC has no frequency. I'm sure you know that, but it's a really odd phrase.

I was kinda just making a general point about AC-coupled and DC-coupled systems. When your data rates are in the hundreds of MHz even 60 Hz AC power can be treated as "DC" for the purposes of calculating filters, etc. I was referring to power in general being transmitted on frequencies ranging from 0 Hz up to "don't care wrt data rates"

But why? If a room has multiple Ethernet devices (Tv, Roku, Apple TV, etc.), a small switch works just fine.

Unless you are trying to do anything fancy like separate your A/V consuming devices from your gaming devices, or setup a dedicated switch port for (say) your DirecTV boxes (you don't want to use DECA for whatever reason), or you want to play with port QoS to insure that your lab's multicast imaging traffic doesn't clobber your Xbox experience. If you only have one drop there, you're screwed, or at least you have to pick up a small managed/VLAN-capable switch -- not cheap. Better to just run a bunch of cables from the beginning. I'd agree you probably don't need a cable for every device, since smaller / dumber things can hang off of a switch, but I'm VERY happy I did a pair of Ethernet to every wallplate, and at my HT locations I wish I had done 3 instead of two.

Plus, a little switch means another wall wart to plug in somewhere, and another thin power cord. In some houses there is no problem with this, but cats have a propensity to chew thin wires in my house -- they love to munch through DC wart cords. I've had to put tubes around everything and/or velcro it to a fat bundle to keep them from destroying my setups. I've been through like 4 IR blasters because of cats...

I have personally started to tackle the need for almost any kind of device by just putting up a computer. An older laptop or some ITX box. In most cases the thing making this troublesome has been related to disk for me. Either it's too slow, too small, too expensive...So I just started to have devices using iSCSI targets as their disks and have them boot off that. Instead of having to care about 4 2.5" HDDs and probably having to sigh loudly once one dies or thinking about how to do backups, it's just one disk in the basement and system backups are made on a file level.

If you do stuff like that, having more than one network cable might be better than just using a switch. Either for bandwidth or just to separate the storage network from the rest. Another consideration is maybe PoE for things besides the IP cams. If I could, I'd switch to SIP based phones supporting PoE. For that you want a dedicated cable.If those were my walls, I'd rather run too much ethernet than too little. Even with pullstrings and anything, adding a cable is real work and I don't care if there's another pair of plugs on the wall.

What I regret these days is not just running Cat5e, but instead something that should meet Cat7 specs - which weren't finalized at the time I ran it. Had I known that Cat5e would still be sufficient for 10GBase-T I would have rather ran more cables through the tiny conduit and spent less time cursing the minimal tolerances for removing the shielding and undrilling wires...You've heard it already, but I'll chime in: Just do Cat5e if you don't have runs exceeding 40m. If you have runs exceeding 40m, think twice.

I was kinda just making a general point about AC-coupled and DC-coupled systems.

Except your point didn't make much sense (you seem unaware that the power is delivered as DC only?), nor was it really a good explanation of how coupling works. In the broadest terms, DC/AC coupling merely determines whether any DC offset voltage (bias) crosses circuits or not. DC-coupled circuits pass the bias, while AC-coupled circuits block the bias. It is possible to build circuits that don't require the DC bias to be removed just to operate on the AC signal, which is counter to your explanation.

In the specific case of copper Ethernet, the standard requires transformer isolation, so the DC power is provided by center-tapped transformers, combining the center taps from each pair in a phantom power circuit (though it's a bit more complicated than what's found in a microphone).

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When your data rates are in the hundreds of MHz even 60 Hz AC power can be treated as "DC" for the purposes of calculating filters, etc.

Not the least bit true. Ethernet, like many other protocols, is baseband and thus occupies all frequencies from 0-125MHz. This is the BASE in 10BASET, 100BASETX, etc. Injecting any other AC signal in that band is interference, which will degrade the quality of signal considerably. Hence why POE provides power as DC only.

Providing AC power and a separate AC data signal on the same line is possible, but the signal has to operate in a frequency range distinct from the AC power frequency. This is accomplished by modulation, and this is exactly how we transmit different signals at different frequencies over the airwaves. Doing it over a cable isn't much different.

Had I known that Cat5e would still be sufficient for 10GBase-T I would

It's not. You can search the forum because we've been over it before, but the short version is that unless you are using STP instead of UTP, and are using Fiber for patching, you aren't really going to get any decent distance out of Cat5e and 10G.

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You've heard it already, but I'll chime in: Just do Cat5e if you don't have runs exceeding 40m. If you have runs exceeding 40m, think twice.

This is even more misleading. Cat5/5e is perfectly sufficient for gigabit runs up to 100 meters. I suppose the 40 meters you mention is somehow related to 10G, but even that doesn't really match up with anything I know...there is an annex to the 5e spec that claims that you can run 10G over 5e up to 55 meters, IF you meet a whole lot of other criteria...but even that isn't really a supported configuration from any networking vendor I'm aware of.

@ FrennzyYou're right to mention (S)S(F)TP and UTP. I tend to forget that in the US unshielded and unscreened cables are common. Here I only saw them coming with Linksys consumer gear.

My faint knowledge of 10G Base-T was that 45m was the limit over an STP Cat5e with solid copper Gotta read up on that it seems...And yes, I should have mentioned the length limit does not apply to Gbit.

Trying to decide if it's worth the DIY route or to hire a pro (free tIme is something I have very little of).

Ok, HDBaseT?

Sounds great, since you can use a CAT5e cable to push a lot of different data (and power) but it's hard to find any info on it that doesn't seem "theoretical", aside from their somewhat vague website http://hdbaset.emergebeta.com/