See, he doesn't hate all Hip-Hop like you do; he's just more into that raw stuff about daughters shooting their abusive fathers while they're dressed up as Santa at a Macy's store. He will not have any of that glorifying God and bearing witness to the message of the Gospel nonsense in his Hip-Hop.

"Ain't a fellow head on this board"...right orthonorm?

Now, to everyone who has felt inclined to post strictly to express their distaste for Hip-Hop in general or Christian rap in particular; please, there are better ways to get that attention you seem to be so hungry for. Have you tried walking into an airport with a bulky package under your coat screaming that you have a bomb? Trust me, you'll get thousands of people who will take great interest in what you're saying. Compare that to the zero people in this internet discussion thread who care about your uninvited and unconstructive opinion on their musical taste. That's a difference of thousands!

« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 11:37:57 AM by EkhristosAnesti »

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No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

Now, to everyone who has felt inclined to post strictly to express their distaste for Hip-Hop in general or Christian rap in particular; please, there are better ways to get that attention you seem to be so hungry for. Have you tried walking into an airport with a bulky package under your coat screaming that you have a bomb? Trust me, you'll get thousands of people who will take great interest in what you're saying. Compare that to the zero people in this internet discussion thread who care about your uninvited and unconstructive opinion on their musical taste. That's a difference of thousands!

Its how a message board flows. Rarely do things stay on topic for longer than 30 posts. But just so you dont pop and scream from rage, I'll try to steer the boat back on course......Tupac sucked.

PP

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"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

See, he doesn't hate all Hip-Hop like you do; he's just more into that raw stuff about daughters shooting their abusive fathers while they're dressed up as Santa at a Macy's store. He will not have any of that glorifying God and bearing witness to the message of the Gospel nonsense in his Hip-Hop.

"Ain't a fellow head on this board"...right orthonorm?

Now, to everyone who has felt inclined to post strictly to express their distaste for Hip-Hop in general or Christian rap in particular; please, there are better ways to get that attention you seem to be so hungry for. Have you tried walking into an airport with a bulky package under your coat screaming that you have a bomb? Trust me, you'll get thousands of people who will take great interest in what you're saying. Compare that to the zero people in this internet discussion thread who care about your uninvited and unconstructive opinion on their musical taste. That's a difference of thousands!

How funny, its not surprising to me that the OC.net ain't got any love for Tupac, but I bet you're sure surprised ain't nobody seem to be feelin that Gospel rap you bump yo

stay blessed,habte selassie

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Even-though I like some of Wu-Tang Clans stuff, the religious group that they belong to, The 5% Nation of gods and earths are a black supremacist splinter religious group. They came from another black supremacist group called the Nation of Islam, and they in turn came from another Black supremacist group called the Moorish Science Temple of America, in which the symbol from the gold chain in the picture comes from.

Yes, Jnorm. Luckily RZA is not as into it as he used to be.

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Quote from: Pope Francis

Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'Animal politicus.' So at least I am a human person.

I think that Christian music does have a legitimate presence in FFA-Religious Topics. Can we concentrate more on its impact on generations other than mine? Even though I dislike rap of all kind and do not like Cristian rock/contemporary music, I am aware that the younger generation does not share my feelings.

See, he doesn't hate all Hip-Hop like you do; he's just more into that raw stuff about daughters shooting their abusive fathers while they're dressed up as Santa at a Macy's store. He will not have any of that glorifying God and bearing witness to the message of the Gospel nonsense in his Hip-Hop.

"Ain't a fellow head on this board"...right orthonorm?

Now, to everyone who has felt inclined to post strictly to express their distaste for Hip-Hop in general or Christian rap in particular; please, there are better ways to get that attention you seem to be so hungry for. Have you tried walking into an airport with a bulky package under your coat screaming that you have a bomb? Trust me, you'll get thousands of people who will take great interest in what you're saying. Compare that to the zero people in this internet discussion thread who care about your uninvited and unconstructive opinion on their musical taste. That's a difference of thousands!

How funny, its not surprising to me that the OC.net ain't got any love for Tupac, but I bet you're sure surprised ain't nobody seem to be feelin that Gospel rap you bump yo

stay blessed,habte selassie

Hapte--Could you please translate "to be feelin that Gospel rap you bump yo"?

I have to commend both Jenorm and EA for supporting Christian Artists, who are doing what they can to evangelize the audience that particularly loves the hip hop and rap genre. They are the REAL messengers of peace, love, brotherhood, and the lifting up of the humanity of the person in Christ whatever his/her race may happen to be. We know what the others are singing about, their fruit is the evidence, their music and its message is one of the many reasons that thousands are dying on the streets today victims of the glorified thuggish life .

What we see with the Christian artists like you guys said is a wonderful thing; they need to be encouraged for reaching out to those who can be reached with their music. I cannot tell anyone what to do however I for one am all in favor of taking away all the monetary support of those “secular and Violent” artists and I believe that if a person is Christian they should put their money where their heart is, help the Christian laborer, who labors in the service of the Gospel to continue to do what he or she is capable of doing. Do not spend your money to listen to or help disseminate that kind of music and its message of violence and hate; do not support the messengers of immorality and death. We all know that those secular rappers are so much against the Christian rappers for one MAIN reason; it’s their own version of PR and hitting the competition for THE Money! Nothing else but money, the Christians have a different message from the others, and for this reason, the clash of massage makes it essential for the Christian to choose what he or she will listen to and help grow. However the thug life propagators cannot support their message other than the lame excuse of calling it ‘real’ where as they try to defame the Christians as “unreal” and yet for Christians the message of the Gospel is REAL! The message of the human rising above the beast is being A REAL HUMAN BEING! The solution the Gospel offers both in this world and the next is REAL!

God bless,Hiwot

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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Yeah, I'm calling them out. The only message I got out of that song is, "So, you think Christmas is that 'season to be jolly'? Let me take off your rose-tinted glasses for you and give you some insight into the disturbing evil and brokenness that plagues other lives at this time."

My response to that: "Can I please have my glasses back? They're not rose-tinted; they're tinted with the redeeming blood of He Who became man this Christmas day to live, die, and rise for the sake of saving the entire world of its evil and brokenness and giving it hope of eternal peace and joy. That is the perspective from which I have been called to see this world; so take that godless message of depressing hopelessness somewhere else this Christmas."

Some worthwhile Hip-Hop to listen to at Christmas time:

It's a hard knock life; you can't weed out the sorrow;Still I believe the Sun will be out tomorrow;I've got a right to think like this;And my reason is connected to the season of Christ-mas;'Cause though it doesn't seem right, one night this;Place of low worth held the birth of One priceless.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftjbMjw-HX0

« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 12:31:11 AM by EkhristosAnesti »

Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

Fr. Seraphim Rose in his "The Orthodox World View" talked about this kind of music.

Quote

"There are two false approaches to life around us that many often make today, thinking that somehow this is what Orthodox Christians should be doing. One approach-- the most common one-- is simply to go along with the times: adapt yourself to rock music, modern fashions and tastes, and the whole rhythm of our jazzed-up modern life... This is wrong. The Christian must be different from the world, above all from today's weird, abnormal world, and this must be one of the basic things he knows as part of his Christian upbringing. Otherwise there is no point in calling ourselves Christian-- much less Orthodox Christian... The point is-- and it is a point that is absolutely necessary for our survival as Orthodox Christians today-- we must realize our situation as Orthodox Christians today-- we must realize deeply what times we live in, how little we actually know and feel our Orthodoxy, how far we are not just from the saints of ancient times, bt even form the ordinary Orthodox Christians of a hundred years or even a generation ago, and how much we must humble ourselves just to survive as Orthodox Christians today... Anyone who has come to realize how deep Orthodoxy is, and how full is the commitment which is required of the serious Orthodox Christian, and likewise what totalitarian demands the contemporary world makes on us, will easliy see how wrong this opinion is. One is Orthodox all the time every day, in every situation of life, or one is not really Orthodox at all. Our Orthodoxy is revealed not just in our strictly religious views, but in everything we must do and say.... Therefore, our attitude, beginning right now, must be down-to-earth and normal. Let us not be afraid of being considered a little "crazy" by the world and let us continue to practice Christian love and forgiveness which the world can never understand, but which in its heart it needs and craves. Finally, our Christian attitude must be what, for want of a better word, I would call innocent. Today the world places a high value on sophistication, on being worldy-wise, on being a "professional." Orthodoxy places no value on these qualities; they kill the Christian soul... We needn't be ignorant of what goes on in the world and in the Church-- in fact, for our own selves we have to know-- but our knowledge must be practical and simple and single minded, not sophisticated and wordly. If we truly live this Orthodox world-view, our Faith will survive the shocks ahead of us and be a source of inspiration and salvation for those who will still be seeking Christ even amidst the shipwreck of humanity which has already begun today."

In my opinion Tupac just doesn't fit the description as something an Orthodox Christian should be listening to. I think one needs to look at contemporary music and judge just what kind of lessons they want to take from it. Just in my personal experience, anything I'm listening to driving home from liturgy-- which is usually a two and a half hour drive-- if it isn't AFR or Orthodox music, just doesn't mesh with the sound I had just had in my ears. Whenever I would try to listen to something secular after liturgy, would just conflict with the peace and love I had from just being in the church. Listen to whatever music you like, but understand, if it's outside of the church, it might not be good for you.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 01:52:45 AM by Manalive »

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"Lay hold of the pathway... rugged and narrow as it is."- St. John Chrystostom

Is there not something to be said here about Tupac's ability to create music that people can relate to?

Surely he has a certain ability to evoke emotion and feeling through his music. Those feelings and emotions may not be distinctively Christian, but they can be distinctively 'human' and can relate to any of us.

Don't get me wrong. I don't appreciate 99% of his music.

But there needs to be something said for secular -- or at least not overtly Christian -- music that has the ability to make us feel and think.

If so then you really can't pull the monk card on us. Anyone who dislikes rap or even christian rap, but still listens to secular rock, pop, country......etc. Or even watch tv, movies, and play video games really can't say anything to those who listen to rap music.

Maybe if you stopped listening to country, rock, pop....et. And stopped watching the tube, movies and stopped playing video games then I would care what your musical tastes were, but until then It really doesn't matter what your thoughts are about rap music. Nor does it matter what your thoughts are about christian rap music for I know what this music can do. Not only in my own life, but also in the life of others. And at the end of the day this is the bottom line. For how many people have you helped get off drugs? Get out of gangs? Get out of a violent life style? How many people have you helped wait to have sex till marriage or helped in not wanting to get an abortion?

Yeah, alot of people may not like this kind of music, but that's their own personal preference. And so to put a spiritual guilt trip on someone else for listening to rap music is hypocritical if you still listen to non church music yourself of any genre. It is even hypocritical if you still watch non-church tv shows, and movies. It is hypocritical if you are pulling this card while playing modern video games. And so use it when you become a monk yourself.

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"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

I have to commend both Jenorm and EA for supporting Christian Artists, who are doing what they can to evangelize the audience that particularly loves the hip hop and rap genre. They are the REAL messengers of peace, love, brotherhood, and the lifting up of the humanity of the person in Christ whatever his/her race may happen to be. We know what the others are singing about, their fruit is the evidence, their music and its message is one of the many reasons that thousands are dying on the streets today victims of the glorified thuggish life .

What we see with the Christian artists like you guys said is a wonderful thing; they need to be encouraged for reaching out to those who can be reached with their music. I cannot tell anyone what to do however I for one am all in favor of taking away all the monetary support of those “secular and Violent” artists and I believe that if a person is Christian they should put their money where their heart is, help the Christian laborer, who labors in the service of the Gospel to continue to do what he or she is capable of doing. Do not spend your money to listen to or help disseminate that kind of music and its message of violence and hate; do not support the messengers of immorality and death. We all know that those secular rappers are so much against the Christian rappers for one MAIN reason; it’s their own version of PR and hitting the competition for THE Money! Nothing else but money, the Christians have a different message from the others, and for this reason, the clash of massage makes it essential for the Christian to choose what he or she will listen to and help grow. However the thug life propagators cannot support their message other than the lame excuse of calling it ‘real’ where as they try to defame the Christians as “unreal” and yet for Christians the message of the Gospel is REAL! The message of the human rising above the beast is being A REAL HUMAN BEING! The solution the Gospel offers both in this world and the next is REAL!

God bless,Hiwot

Amen sis! Amen!

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"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

jnorm, my apologies for offending you. My post was in response to the music Tupac represents not this Christian rap that you happen to like. I was not saying don't listen, read, or watch secular things-- neither is Fr. Seraphim. I said judge for yourself what kind of music you listen to. If it's spiritually edifying, then there probably isn't any harm in it. The point was that a Christian ought to be different from the world. I never once said don't have anything to do with the secular. The card you are saying I pulled is not the card I am pulling. Also, I am pretty sure there are people who aren't monks that don't play videogames or listen to the type of music Tupac represents.

Everyone struggles to live an Orthodox lifestyle. Lord knows how much I do. For your consideration, I listen to classical and orthodox music; I don't have cable or satelite tv; I limit myself to what kind of dvd's I watch; I don't read books that are post-modern, vulgar, or grotesque; And I haven't owned or played video games in over a year. That is my lifestyle. I would never think nor tell someone I'm living the way a Christian should. All I am saying is discern for yourself what is spiritually edifying.

If so then you really can't pull the monk card on us. Anyone who dislikes rap or even christian rap, but still listens to secular rock, pop, country......etc. Or even watch tv, movies, and play video games really can't say anything to those who listen to rap music.

Maybe if you stopped listening to country, rock, pop....et. And stopped watching the tube, movies and stopped playing video games then I would care what your musical tastes were, but until then It really doesn't matter what your thoughts are about rap music. Nor does it matter what your thoughts are about christian rap music for I know what this music can do. Not only in my own life, but also in the life of others. And at the end of the day this is the bottom line. For how many people have you helped get off drugs? Get out of gangs? Get out of a violent life style? How many people have you helped wait to have sex till marriage or helped in not wanting to get an abortion?

Yeah, alot of people may not like this kind of music, but that's their own personal preference. And so to put a spiritual guilt trip on someone else for listening to rap music is hypocritical if you still listen to non church music yourself of any genre. It is even hypocritical if you still watch non-church tv shows, and movies. It is hypocritical if you are pulling this card while playing modern video games. And so use it when you become a monk yourself.

Logged

"Lay hold of the pathway... rugged and narrow as it is."- St. John Chrystostom

Is there not something to be said here about Tupac's ability to create music that people can relate to?

Surely he has a certain ability to evoke emotion and feeling through his music. Those feelings and emotions may not be distinctively Christian, but they can be distinctively 'human' and can relate to any of us.

Don't get me wrong. I don't appreciate 99% of his music.

But there needs to be something said for secular -- or at least not overtly Christian -- music that has the ability to make us feel and think.

Amen Amen! I smell you on that one, that was really part of the point of why I posted this thread, but a lot of folks clearly disagree with Tupac being considered an "artist", but like I said in the OP, I read a plurality of novels because they contain the depth of the human experience, and my music library is equally as diverse as my bookshelf. I agree completely with Manalive's sentiments that "if it isn't Orthodox it might not be good for you" but if we ourselves are Orthodox the Grace can survive. As for me, I listen to diverse musics and read diverse literature because I want to challenge and confront those diverse aspects of my personality, both those that are perfectly Orthodox and those idiosyncrasies which need to readjust. If the Church is a spiritual hospital, for me, listening to music and reading novels is a way to exercise my therapy and bring out underlying questions and issues of my psychology to the surface. This is why killing, robbing, and adultery saturate the Bible, not simply as warnings, but literary vehicles for spiritual growth as the stories challenge us to dive deep into our experience of God to make sense of our experience of ourselves.

stay blessed,habte selassie

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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

I like Tupac's socially conscious music before he signed to Death Row, then he sort of became West Coast garbage. Me Against the World was his best album, imo. Either way, I think that Ice Cube was still a better rapper for the West Coast and probably one of the most influental rappers of all time--definitely top 5 GOAT.

Rakim is garbage; extremely boring and choppy flow and repetitive references to his Islamic faith. The only good thing about him are his revolutionary rhyme schemes. Same with Nas; the guy is so dull and boring. One good album and then he became garbage. Kool G Rap is better than both, along with Big Pun whose flow was untouchable.

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Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.