[G] Marine tank build order and execution

In this post I want to talk about an opening build order for a marine tank build against zerg. This post is intended to newer players but I'm sure mid-higher players may benefit as well. Im sure most of the content of this post is nothing groundbreaking or new to the expierenced players out there. I just feel like there was not a good thread on how to actually execute this build from the perspective of a lower level player. A breakdown of this post. First I will give the general build order. Then an explanation of how to engage, how to attack with the units you have. At the end there are several replays included. I understand this is a long post. It is broken into sections so you can read that parts that interest you. I hope this helps.

Now before I start the build discussion I'd like to explain my reasons for this post. I am a Platinum level terran player. TvZ has always been my worst match up. I have tried countless number of openings against zerg. I did a reactor hellion build, mass thor, banshee openers pretty much everything and anything that I found on TL. On a lot of these posts many people talked about how marine tank was so incredibly strong. It seemed to be a consensus of higher level players that this was the build to go. I searched for marine tank using the search function. There were many threads that discussed marine tank but nothing to my satisfaction that really gave "instruction" on the build order as well as how to execute this. I slowly began to incorporate a marine tank build into my play. It was nothing short of a disaster. I would get my base destroyed by mutas, my marine tank composition would get rolled over by baneling zergling.

When trying a few custom games toying with new ideas I tried to do a 1 base bio factory play to try and win the game fast. I realized i did not have enough gas for mauraders and tanks so i just built marines. When I went to attack i realized " hey, I have enough for an expansion" This is a build that resulted from my just winging a build that used marines and tanks and was slowly refined.

After watching some players stream I began to just play custom games experimenting some of by theoretical builds until I found one that began to work on some sort of a consistent basis. Some posts on here did give build orders, but my problem was how to use my units once I had them.

As with all builds in SC2 you need to scout. Once I find the zerg I put my scouting SCV on a patrol around their base as well as sending him to check the natural for an expansion. You need to check for some kind of cheeze build so you know if it is coming ahead of time.

This is not an "all in" build. So you need to be constantly making scv's, supply depots, as well as units. (hotkeys really help)

Use the worker who built the factory to build a 2nd Rax as soon as the factory is finished.

As soon as the techlab on the Rax is finished research stim.

When the techlab on the factory finishes build a tank.

At your next 100 gas research siege mode

Around the time your first tank is done build an engineering bay. When it finishes you should have enough gas to research attack+1

Add a 3rd Rax when you could afford it. (Mine tends to be around 50 supply or 7:30-7:45 game time)

You should be pushing out of your base around the 9:30 mark. With your push you should have 4 tanks and about 15 marines

After stim is finished, when your 4th tank is already started I try to get combat shield when I have enough gas.

As you are pushing out you should have enough minerals to throw down an expansion.

At your base you have 3 rax and a factory. Those are the production facilities this build OPENS with. After that what you want to do is pretty much up to you. As well as a result of what units he is making What I like to do is to get a starport for medivacs especially in the case of infestors. They can also be used to harass their main base with drops. If the game goes on long/ far enough get a few more rax, another factory and an armory as well for thors to deal with mutas.

Continuing to get upgrades is also highly recommended!

** Not EVERYTHING in the BO is required. If you are a player still working on your macro you might want to skip the upgrades for now if you feel like you can't afford them.This is a style that can be changed based on what you are most comfortable with. This is just how I play and what works best for me.

This is the part of my game that has taken me a very long time to learn. Often have the supply and army advantage can still mean a loss if you do not properly engage a zerg army. At this point in the game here is what I think it usually looks like: zerg is on 2 bases. They have a few spine crawlers at the front. They have an army of banelings and zerglings. They may have teched up to either mutas or infestors (much more popular post patch) If a zerg is greedy, they may have taken a third.

On your way to the enemy base, walk past the towers and clear them out. When you approach the enemy base get your tanks near the edge of creep and siege up. This I think is crucial. It is very difficult to win an engagement if you are fighting on creep. The ling baneling army will be too fast for your marines to run from. You should have saved up enough energy on your OC for a scan or two. Grab a small group of marines and scan for creep tumors. Kill them off with your marines. With your reinforcing tanks as well as your sieged up tanks slowly leapfrog them forward killing creep as you continue forward. The important part of moving your tanks is to not unseige them all at the same time. Leapfrog them. Meaning- take the tank at the back and move it to the front. Do not move multiple tanks at once. Slowly advance forward one tank at a time.

Constantly reinforce your army with marines, tanks, and eventually thors and medivacs if the game gets to that point.

Once your army gets close enough you will have your opponent with their back against the wall. They will have 2 choices:1. Lose their expansion2. Attack out your contain with everything they have.

Chances are your opponent will attack with their entire army. At this point garb your marines. Run them away and stim to avoid banelings. Tanks should get most of the banelings since your tanks should be spread out. Then the marines are free to just clean up the rest.

From here you have them on one base. You will have plenty of minerals to take a third. You slowly contain, slowly push into his base and there is the GG.

First and foremost: I am not saying this is original. I am not saying I came up with this. I am saying that after manyyyyyyy hours of struggling, this is just a build that I think is:

1 Not very difficult to execute. 2 Not requiring a high amp I only have about a 50 apm (actions per min) this is a build that does not require a high amp to pull off3 Economic- This build opens with an expansion around the time when you push out (9:30- 10 min) Even if the zerg is able to break your contain you have them on two bases. You should have been able to get up a third or fourth. You also should have been constantly making scv's. He was forced to make alot more units and less drones so you should have the economic advantage.

As I said in the opening blurb about this build, I intended this post to be for lower level players. I am only platinum so my play still needs improvement. But I believe some mid- higher level players could benefit as well. I am also willing to accept any constructive criticism about this build with the mindset of improving it. The only thing I ask is that you watch a replay before suggesting changes.

It can. The idea is to be in the zergs face early instead of turtling up. As you move out and your expo kicks in more production buildings are added. 3 rax and a factory only takes you to the 10 min mark. after that you add more production facilities as your income increases.

I'm usually wary of platinum-level players posting a guide but this is pretty good. Good work 15 marines accompanying the 4 tanks is kinda wimpy though, especially against mass lings. You may find you aren't able to do enough damage, or that you lose your entire army outright as you face better players.

Well thanks! I agree its not initially strong enough to actually push into the zerg base. But with reinforcing tanks marines and medivacs (eventually thors) I found that the initial 4 tanks and marines was enough to contain them until reinforcements arrive. once more tanks and marines are with your army you can start to really leapfrog tanks and push in. I agree that it is possible that tis would not work against high level players. I have been winning with it against diamond level players (first few replays are vs diamond) so I thought that was high enough to make it at least a viable build. Although I do not know if it works at the masters level I was more writing this to help the bronze-platinum players. I know I struggled trying to figure out how to use marine tank ( i started as a bronze in october) So i know how frustrating it can be. I thought this would help some of the lower level players at least get a start on the style.

I like to do a 2 Rax into expo then take double gas and throw down the factory. You can pressure with your first ~10 marines, you'll usually be able to pick off some stray overlords, zerglings, or creep tumours and maybe even win the game outright if the zerg was droning too hard. The trick is to back off with your marines once you see a crapload of eggs start morphing when you hit their natural; you've forced the zerglings, get out of there before they surround you. Good move and shoot micro is essential for this.

You can put out earlier pressure and your tank push is that much scarier when it comes with massive marine support. I think most zergs would see 4 tanks 15 marines and simply overwhelm it with ling/baneling (losing 4 tanks is devastating that early in the game, even if they attack cost inefficiently).

Nice post.. You might want to incorporate some sort of harass in your build as you start facing better opponents, as if you're not engaging a good zerg for 10+ mins their economy will be ridiculous. Also 10 mins is quite late for taking your natural.

I like this... i have been thinking about this already after losing 5 games in a row last night. i play random, and had two games of terran last night for 1v1. My TvZ was madness... I tried banshees (mass banshees and marines) and was hard-countered by muta-ling. I tried to do the same mass banshee in a TvP matchup and lost miserably when my 4 port banshee was scouted at 7:30, and my opponent went mass phoenix and I lost around 24 or more banshees with a ton of vikings lol. If T and P didn't have mutas and phoenix respectively, cloaked banshees would be so bad-ass. However, banshees are so dam slow (compared to mutas and phoenixes). In my wonderland theory-crafting, I dreamt of sniping all the detection that my opponent has and roaming the skies unchallenged. But in practice it was a complete disarray of losing a few uncloaked banshees and all marines/vikings to losing all my cloaked banshees in my base! (there was an observer there) and marines couldn't out DPS those phoenixes.

In practice, the idea of marine/tank may fare better, because I already had great results with the 2 rax bunker rush early on, and a transition to tank with FE is also great... since tanks are great for sieging the opponent in. No pun intended.

Marine tank is done on the pro-scene already for TvT and is quite newb-friendly in terms of micro. I know if i was on 1-base as zerg, i'll be in tears, well maybe i'll do a speedling run-by then be in tears.

To those who have said that 15 marines is too few, please watch the replay if you have not already. 15-20 marines is the most I have been able to produce while still being able to get an engineering bay with the attack +1 upgrade. The ~15 marine count is the number you have as you leave your main. You have your rax rallied to your army to be reinforcing. The 4 tanks and about 20 marines is enough to just set up a contain. When you start to actually push into the zergs natural you should have 5-7 tanks and around thirty marines which is more than enough to kill the mass ling army that the zerg is likely to throw at you.

I do agree that a 2 rax expand build is a good way to put pressure on the zerg to stop droning. The reason I do not do this build is because I do not execute this style very well. I feel after the harass I am forced to play defensive until I get tanks up. Then the zerg can take a third and fourth. With good execution this is a strong style. It is just not a style I am comfortable playing with at the moment.

I agree that 10 min is late for an expansion. This build sacrifices early economy for a fast marine tank army. You limit the zerg economy. A zerg on 2 bases is not as scary as a 3 base zerg. Zerg usually needs to stay an expo ahead of terran because of the lack of larva. This is also not a fast expand build. It is designed to contain the zerg and keep him on 2 bases while you mass up tanks and marines.

Good effort, very nicely done. I'm of the macro sort so a 10 min expo is just a bit late for me, especially because a Z who scouts me on one base that long will likely start building up some defenses. I feel like your build can be a lot more effective with a 1rax or 2rax FE into 3 rax 1/2 fact 1 port, but that's the normal Marine/Tank push

Hey thanks! Im glad you like it. Umm i tried but I dont know how to use the program either. It told me the build used a 14 rax which is definitely wrong. But there are a few replays posted so just watch them to get the order down. After 10 min, there is not build order just adapt to what you see and what your comfortable getting.

Thanks. I hope you'll try it first before completely crossing it off. I agree that this would work well off a fast expand. The point of this post is to offer a strategy other than a 2 rax expand. 2 rax expand is commonly done and there is nothing wrong with that. I am simply arguing a fast expand opener is not the only approach to a marine tank strategy. I struggle with fast expand builds so I came up with this to give me an economy while still being able to get up units fast and to be in the zergs face.

If zerg scouts you on one base, who cares? They are going to put up spine crawlers which will be a waste since the tanks will just take them out anyways. And they will stop making drones and make units which only benefits your economy. If you have the zerg scared about your one base push they will sacrifice an economy (drone production) for units.Again I am not saying this is perfect. Im just saying this is an alternative to the normal fast expand marine tank push. Before you dismiss this as something that does not work, just give it a shot.