What is good about it? That PC culture won again, because everyone is offended by everything nowadays? It's not like the girls were forced to do it, they probably did it happily.Perhaps not in the countries that shouldn't be allowed to host an F1-race to begin with.

Yes, we had this discussion recently.

Each to their own on this one, times have moved on indeed, but equally the people working in the modelling business are not exactly chained or forced to do these gigs. It's just extra money for them.

That said, the corridor girls are just creepy, being there just to clap the winners. That I don't mind see it going.

I despise political correctness, affirmative action and all that other feel good crap but even I applaud the move. IMO Grid girls, while they may not detract from the sport, do nothing to improve the image of the sport. I can understand the argument that the girls aren't forced to do it and that's fair enough but to me its about the sport, not the girls.

There are better options available to the sport if they're after an umbrella or sign holder. Under privileged kids or kids from local motor sport competitions are just 2 examples. I'd much rather see a young kid standing next to their hero having their dream come true than a good looking girl who isn't necessarily that well informed about the sport or the driver she's next to.

I think the clapping girls are pretty much surplus to requirement as well.

_________________ Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your ar$e, cricket is not. - Keith Miller, Australian cricket legend and WWII pilot.

I'm not passionate about the grid girls either way, but I do think this is a purely political move and doesn't have anything to do with any feelings about grid girls projecting the right image of F1. I don't agree it demeans women and quite a few may well be put out at the thought they will never be able to do it again.

So I'm ambivalent about their presence, but voted against the ban as I think there's more than a whiff of the bandwagon about it

I'm glad the practice is abandoned. It was cringe-worthy. Especially the clapping before the podium.

Some arguments you hear people stating just don't making any sense to me:"They are taking away paid work of people that love what they are doing!"

So? Would that be your same reasoning when F1 decides to limit aero development and several aero engineers would be cut form F1? Truth is, that "argument" is never used when we discuss the way F1 could improve racing.Only when it comes to grid girls we suddenly feel bad for their loss of income. They'll survive and find other modelling gigs.

Using this argument actually reeks of the exact "snowflake" behaviour the pro-gridgirl people (PGG) are accusing the no grid girls people (=NGG) of: "We are here to protect them poor girls livelihood (as if they need your protection) against the big, bad outside world!"That smells of paternalism: only PGG'ers "really" know whats good for grid girls? Ugh.

Other argument: "I believe in freedom, so therefor I would not want to prevent any of these women of doing this job. Axing grid girls is limiting their freedom to earn an honest living, so I am against axing it!"

Fact is the owner of a series doesn't have to listen to the buyers of the product: if they decide they no longer want grid girls as part of their show, they can choose to do so."Forcing" them to NOT stop the practice in the name of "freedom", that sounds just silly to me. Or would you claim the owners should not have the freedom to decide on their product?

What if I state I want to freedom to do summersaults on the grid and I demand my freedom to do just that is respected? Would you fight for my freedom then too?

Believing in freedom (as I do) doesn't mean only believing in your own freedom and limiting others to exercise their right to theirs. Everyone is free to set up a rivaling series with plenty of grid girls.

Grid girls were intended as eye-candy. That several of these women have more to offer is without doubt. But that doesn't take away anything of that original intent: to be eye-candy, to attract the male gaze and to please parts of the male audience by getting dressed up in a certain way.

Have you ever seen an F1 journalist interviewing grid girls? Of course not, bc no one expects them to be anything other than be pretty and smile. How on earth is that acknowledging the fullness of their personality, knowledge and ambitions?

That is what objectification is all about: creating a situation where a human is barred from expressing their humanness fully, bc the person doing the objectification only wants the other person to "be" the thing they desire them to be. If you choose to create a situation where people are only allowed to look pretty and shut up, what's in there for you then, I wonder?

The paedophile argument is even weaker: in football kids are used to introduce teams all the time and no one in their right mind would think of accusing the organizers of paedophilia.

Will see if other arguments appear, not enough time and willingness to address them all atm.

*I remain open for debate and none of my views should be considered as absolutes. Feel free to attack them with decent arguments.

_________________"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

How does removing Grid girls improve the sport? i just think there are better things to do than firing a load of people to keep a small (yet vocal) group of people (who i highly doubt watch F1 anyway) satisfied.... until they find something else to complain about.

it does nothing to improve F1...

How does having them impact the sport positively? They're not F1 employees so Liberty aren't firing them

If they are not their employees, how can they remove them?

Models typically work for agencies. I'm sure the grid girls are no different. An F1 representative would have contacted an agency to send down x amount of girls. Now they won't be contacting the agency anymore

What is good about it? That PC culture won again, because everyone is offended by everything nowadays? It's not like the girls were forced to do it, they probably did it happily.Perhaps not in the countries that shouldn't be allowed to host an F1-race to begin with.

Yes, we had this discussion recently.

Each to their own on this one, times have moved on indeed, but equally the people working in the modelling business are not exactly chained or forced to do these gigs. It's just extra money for them.

That said, the corridor girls are just creepy, being there just to clap the winners. That I don't mind see it going.

I despise political correctness, affirmative action and all that other feel good crap but even I applaud the move. IMO Grid girls, while they may not detract from the sport, do nothing to improve the image of the sport. I can understand the argument that the girls aren't forced to do it and that's fair enough but to me its about the sport, not the girls.

There are better options available to the sport if they're after an umbrella or sign holder. Under privileged kids or kids from local motor sport competitions are just 2 examples. I'd much rather see a young kid standing next to their hero having their dream come true than a good looking girl who isn't necessarily that well informed about the sport or the driver she's next to.

I think the clapping girls are pretty much surplus to requirement as well.

Agreed. On the bold part, if they don't detract nor improve the sport, then why remove them?

I'd be happier to have the grid girls and a few selected kids that won a contest. Maybe for the first few rows that get more televised. But I wouldn't want 24 kids running around the track wanting to get autographs and chat to the drivers. There's enough happening in the morning of the race without adding that risk there. Also, kids on track, maybe not the best idea.

How does removing Grid girls improve the sport? i just think there are better things to do than firing a load of people to keep a small (yet vocal) group of people (who i highly doubt watch F1 anyway) satisfied.... until they find something else to complain about.

it does nothing to improve F1...

How does having them impact the sport positively? They're not F1 employees so Liberty aren't firing them

If they are not their employees, how can they remove them?

Models typically work for agencies. I'm sure the grid girls are no different. An F1 representative would have contacted an agency to send down x amount of girls. Now they won't be contacting the agency anymore

Not sure how it works to be honest. Is it the track that provides them? Or the FIA?

I'd imagine the circuit promoter or FOM. I'd like to think the FIA have bigger things to worry about

This topic was a big news item yesterday and had a massive discussion on Reddit. There was a very good post in there from a guy who said his wife has been doing it for the past 5 years. There's WAY more to the role than meets the eye. His wife had to be fluent in more than one language, had to be up at 4am each day of a weekend, had to do all manner of meet-and-greets and with sponsors and VIPs, be capable of translating for them - the actual holding of the sign constituted about 30 mins work over the most hectic weekend of her year. She was extremely well paid for the gig - like $10,000. He was very against ditching the grid girls

All his post really did was support ditching the grid girls. Someone still needs to do all of that hospitality and translation work. If his wife is actually very good at those aspects then surely she's still a shoo-in for the role? And let's face it - PR and marketing companies will most likely continue to hire the prettier faces (but probably have a stricter dress code). If anything, the 30 min task of holding the sign detracted from all of the hard work his wife was putting in over the GP weekend. A "blonde bimbo" she most certainly is not. Sounds like she's a hard worker - and F1 will still always need those hard workers

What is good about it? That PC culture won again, because everyone is offended by everything nowadays? It's not like the girls were forced to do it, they probably did it happily.Perhaps not in the countries that shouldn't be allowed to host an F1-race to begin with.

Yes, we had this discussion recently.

Each to their own on this one, times have moved on indeed, but equally the people working in the modelling business are not exactly chained or forced to do these gigs. It's just extra money for them.

That said, the corridor girls are just creepy, being there just to clap the winners. That I don't mind see it going.

I despise political correctness, affirmative action and all that other feel good crap but even I applaud the move. IMO Grid girls, while they may not detract from the sport, do nothing to improve the image of the sport. I can understand the argument that the girls aren't forced to do it and that's fair enough but to me its about the sport, not the girls.

There are better options available to the sport if they're after an umbrella or sign holder. Under privileged kids or kids from local motor sport competitions are just 2 examples. I'd much rather see a young kid standing next to their hero having their dream come true than a good looking girl who isn't necessarily that well informed about the sport or the driver she's next to.

I think the clapping girls are pretty much surplus to requirement as well.

Agreed. On the bold part, if they don't detract nor improve the sport, then why remove them?

I'd be happier to have the grid girls and a few selected kids that won a contest. Maybe for the first few rows that get more televised. But I wouldn't want 24 kids running around the track wanting to get autographs and chat to the drivers. There's enough happening in the morning of the race without adding that risk there. Also, kids on track, maybe not the best idea.

The clapping girls are just wrong.

Because they serve no positive purpose other that prop up a sign or hold an umbrella and, as I stated, there are more deserving and relevant people who could do that job just as well that would also convey a positive image.

As for the safety factor, I'm not talking about 6 or 7 yr olds here. I'm talking in the 9,10,11,12 range. I'm sure Liberty could arrange an autograph session for half hour sometime over the weekend for the grid kids and I don't think they'll be running around the grid. I'd suggest it'd be strictly regulated. Think of ball kids at the tennis. They'd be a similar age and they are very professional and very serious. Think of all the kids that've been used in performances such as Olympic ceremonies. If a kid that age can pull that off i'm sure standing still next to a stationary vehicle holding a pole will be manageable with a bit of practice.

_________________ Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your ar$e, cricket is not. - Keith Miller, Australian cricket legend and WWII pilot.

How does having them impact the sport positively? They're not F1 employees so Liberty aren't firing them

If they are not their employees, how can they remove them?

Models typically work for agencies. I'm sure the grid girls are no different. An F1 representative would have contacted an agency to send down x amount of girls. Now they won't be contacting the agency anymore

Not sure how it works to be honest. Is it the track that provides them? Or the FIA?

I'd imagine the circuit promoter or FOM. I'd like to think the FIA have bigger things to worry about

This topic was a big news item yesterday and had a massive discussion on Reddit. There was a very good post in there from a guy who said his wife has been doing it for the past 5 years. There's WAY more to the role than meets the eye. His wife had to be fluent in more than one language, had to be up at 4am each day of a weekend, had to do all manner of meet-and-greets and with sponsors and VIPs, be capable of translating for them - the actual holding of the sign constituted about 30 mins work over the most hectic weekend of her year. She was extremely well paid for the gig - like $10,000. He was very against ditching the grid girls

All his post really did was support ditching the grid girls. Someone still needs to do all of that hospitality and translation work. If his wife is actually very good at those aspects then surely she's still a shoo-in for the role? And let's face it - PR and marketing companies will most likely continue to hire the prettier faces (but probably have a stricter dress code). If anything, the 30 min task of holding the sign detracted from all of the hard work his wife was putting in over the GP weekend. A "blonde bimbo" she most certainly is not. Sounds like she's a hard worker - and F1 will still always need those hard workers

Hmm, first time I hear an insider's opinion. Eye opening, as I think everyone thinks that these girls are only there to shut up and look good...

I would leave it down to the ladies. No one is forcing them to do this. It is a paid job.

i for one will be looking forward to the grid people , person , children , disabled people , racey people , non racey persons , er grid robots , popup bollards , funky rubber cones with a hologram of the driver on it that lights up and magicly disappear at race start

Grid girls looses gig: "Ooow, poor girl!"Fan is disappointed in the way women are used as objects: "Get over it, snowflake!"

Because we live in a world where being offended is a full time hobby for many? I couldn't care less either way on this particular issue, but you have to be careful generally I think about pandering to offence.

I do feel sorry for the girls, it was quite a lucrative job and it has been taken away from them in a knee-jerk reaction to something completely unrelated in a completely different industry.

Every actual Grid Girl I've seen talking about it has said how much fun the job was and how they got to travel the world, meet amazing people and have been well paid. They're left feeling like a minority have taken away their option to choose.

Personally, I've not really thought the grid girls were that sexualized in F1, certainly not in recent years.

I think banning it in F1 is probably more for the publicity than it is for the welfare of the women who loved their jobs... Why not just commit to hiring some grid guys or something?

I'm glad the practice is abandoned. It was cringe-worthy. Especially the clapping before the podium.

Some arguments you hear people stating just don't making any sense to me:"They are taking away paid work of people that love what they are doing!"

So? Would that be your same reasoning when F1 decides to limit aero development and several aero engineers would be cut form F1? Truth is, that "argument" is never used when we discuss the way F1 could improve racing.Only when it comes to grid girls we suddenly feel bad for their loss of income. They'll survive and find other modelling gigs.

Using this argument actually reeks of the exact "snowflake" behaviour the pro-gridgirl people (PGG) are accusing the no grid girls people (=NGG) of: "We are here to protect them poor girls livelihood (as if they need your protection) against the big, bad outside world!"That smells of paternalism: only PGG'ers "really" know whats good for grid girls? Ugh.

Other argument: "I believe in freedom, so therefor I would not want to prevent any of these women of doing this job. Axing grid girls is limiting their freedom to earn an honest living, so I am against axing it!"

Fact is the owner of a series doesn't have to listen to the buyers of the product: if they decide they no longer want grid girls as part of their show, they can choose to do so."Forcing" them to NOT stop the practice in the name of "freedom", that sounds just silly to me. Or would you claim the owners should not have the freedom to decide on their product?

What if I state I want to freedom to do summersaults on the grid and I demand my freedom to do just that is respected? Would you fight for my freedom then too?

Believing in freedom (as I do) doesn't mean only believing in your own freedom and limiting others to exercise their right to theirs. Everyone is free to set up a rivaling series with plenty of grid girls.

Grid girls were intended as eye-candy. That several of these women have more to offer is without doubt. But that doesn't take away anything of that original intent: to be eye-candy, to attract the male gaze and to please parts of the male audience by getting dressed up in a certain way.

Have you ever seen an F1 journalist interviewing grid girls? Of course not, bc no one expects them to be anything other than be pretty and smile. How on earth is that acknowledging the fullness of their personality, knowledge and ambitions?

That is what objectification is all about: creating a situation where a human is barred from expressing their humanness fully, bc the person doing the objectification only wants the other person to "be" the thing they desire them to be. If you choose to create a situation where people are only allowed to look pretty and shut up, what's in there for you then, I wonder?

The paedophile argument is even weaker: in football kids are used to introduce teams all the time and no one in their right mind would think of accusing the organizers of paedophilia.

Will see if other arguments appear, not enough time and willingness to address them all atm.

*I remain open for debate and none of my views should be considered as absolutes. Feel free to attack them with decent arguments.

Ill have a go lol,

1- your gonna compare an engineer to a model???...,

Can both employee's find a new job yes they can but whom has a higher likely hood of getting one? People can Sympathize with a model who we only see working a weekend gig losing their job vs a engineer that is making FAR more money and could more then likely afford to be out of work for a while. Also a aero engineer career isn't affected by being in the spot light (on tv) they are behind the scenes working and we as viewers don't develop any connection with that role/ person since we dont see them. When we do get glimpses of engineers what are they doing??? Looking extremely busy behind a monitor where u don't even see their face.

2,3- "only pro gid girls people know whats best"........"Fact is the owner of a series doesn't have to listen to the buyers of the product.....you claim the owners should not have the freedom to decide on their product?"

No not at all, i just don't agree with liberties claim of [its not in the direction we want the sport to go.] im pretty sure this is a political move behind the scene in this decision. Maybe as per new sponsorship or tv rights on new networks etc, who knows but liberty does have to listen to its buyers. If you are not catering to your target audience then your product will not be consumed. So somewhere along the food chain this topic was brought up and they have decided to remove it and thats fine. F1 is their baby and they can do what they wish but the charade of we are doing this for the sport is nonsense.

personally it doesnt effect me either way if the models are there or not. As some other members have stated I barely notice them as it is. Why because "sexual advertisement" is thrown in our faces every single day hundreds of times a day. To the point where the average person has become immune to such depictions and doesn't even see it anymore, i tune in for the racing not the models.

4- "Grid girls were intended as eye-candy.........Have you ever seen an F1 journalist interviewing grid girls? Of course not, bc no one expects them to be anything other than be pretty and smile......That is what objectification is all about"

Back in the day F1 drivers were the dare devils of the time, The risk takers. They were depicted as the heart throbs, privileged strong men whom were to be chosen to race. Women threw themselves at the chance to be with such a MANLY MAN. Which imo is where the whole playboy esc environment came from leading to having the involvement of women in the visual theatrics came about and that "tradition" was still embedded to this day.

Now with that being said why would a racing journalist want to interview a model? Shes not racing, shes not a sports figure. She isnt the story or what us the target audience want to see. In this small 30min window of her job she is a "grid girl" but that doesn't mean thats all they do. This is a small aspect of the job, idk what it all entails but its gotta be something if so many women constantly volunteer for this job. If it was as awful, degrading and demeaning as people make it appear to be woman wouldn't be doing it. They aren't slaves, its there choice to be a model and if they enjoy it then god bless em.

5- "The [Pedophile] argument is even weaker: in football kids are used to introduce teams all the time and no one in their right mind would think of accusing the organizers of [pedophilia]."

No one in there right mind would use kids a "sexual advertisement" thats why. That is why this argument wouldn't be brought forth. As such a stupid move would cripple any business and slap the pedophilia label to the brand.

Interestingly Liberty apparently own Sports Illustrated. So presumably that will no longer show pictures of American Football cheerleaders, and the infamous annual Swimsuit magazine is presumably no longer appropriate.... that is unless the alleged $35m of advertising revenue it generates influences the shareholders decision in anyway?

Interesting. I'd like to see if someone brings this up on social media and tags liberty asking for their official answer on this. Bunch of hypocrites trying too hard to be PC. Meh

Reading the story of the guy who says his wife earns serious money from this he's got to be a real joker, there's another girl on twitter who says oh she's been doing it for 8 years and her source of income is gone.

How people believe this is beyond me F1 occurs for just one weekend every year in countries that hold a race, are these people saying people fly them from country to country and don't use local people in these countries?

I think people are just getting worked up on a non issue and it's how much politics have divided the human race into left or right. If you don't agree with people on the left or right instantly you become a liberal snowflake.

Interestingly Liberty apparently own Sports Illustrated. So presumably that will no longer show pictures of American Football cheerleaders, and the infamous annual Swimsuit magazine is presumably no longer appropriate.... that is unless the alleged $35m of advertising revenue it generates influences the shareholders decision in anyway?

Interesting. I'd like to see if someone brings this up on social media and tags liberty asking for their official answer on this. Bunch of hypocrites trying too hard to be PC. Meh

Sports illustrated how does that affect the grid girls? you have sports stars in it and you have people modelling SI swimsuit line, have I missed anything else?

If grids girls had never been a thing would you be sitting back and saying "What would make F1 much better is to have some pretty girls standing around holding a placard."

Now I love to see an attractive woman and I think F1 has been good at not having the grid girls look like a bunch of street walkers like some series. *cough* MotoGP *cough* I also like that they tend to do some sort of regional dress. But I don't think anything is lost by them being done away with and won't miss them.

This topic was a big news item yesterday and had a massive discussion on Reddit. There was a very good post in there from a guy who said his wife has been doing it for the past 5 years. There's WAY more to the role than meets the eye. His wife had to be fluent in more than one language, had to be up at 4am each day of a weekend, had to do all manner of meet-and-greets and with sponsors and VIPs, be capable of translating for them - the actual holding of the sign constituted about 30 mins work over the most hectic weekend of her year. She was extremely well paid for the gig - like $10,000. He was very against ditching the grid girls.

So when they tried kids on the grid, they had to get up at 4am, be fluent in multiple languages, do meet and greets etc? I’d say no. So those jobs will still be available, might even improve, because being a beautiful woman wouldn’t be a requirement. All the ugly bilinguals out there will be in with a chance. I’m sure teams have apprentices, let them hold the signs and umbrellas up.

Seanie wrote:

Every actual Grid Girl I've seen talking about it has said how much fun the job was and how they got to travel the world, meet amazing people and have been well paid. They're left feeling like a minority have taken away their option to choose.

Do they travel the world? From what I’ve seen, Grid Girls tend to be the same nationality as the host GP.

Last edited by bradtheboywonder on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Interestingly Liberty apparently own Sports Illustrated. So presumably that will no longer show pictures of American Football cheerleaders, and the infamous annual Swimsuit magazine is presumably no longer appropriate.... that is unless the alleged $35m of advertising revenue it generates influences the shareholders decision in anyway?

Interesting. I'd like to see if someone brings this up on social media and tags liberty asking for their official answer on this. Bunch of hypocrites trying too hard to be PC. Meh

This topic was a big news item yesterday and had a massive discussion on Reddit. There was a very good post in there from a guy who said his wife has been doing it for the past 5 years. There's WAY more to the role than meets the eye. His wife had to be fluent in more than one language, had to be up at 4am each day of a weekend, had to do all manner of meet-and-greets and with sponsors and VIPs, be capable of translating for them - the actual holding of the sign constituted about 30 mins work over the most hectic weekend of her year. She was extremely well paid for the gig - like $10,000. He was very against ditching the grid girls.

So when they tried kids on the grid, they had to get up at 4am, be fluent in multiple languages, do meet and greets etc? I’d say no. So those jobs will still be available, might even improve, because being a beautiful woman wouldn’t be a requirement. All the ugly bilinguals out there will be in with a chance. I’m sure teams have apprentices, let them hold the signs and umbrellas up.

Seanie wrote:

Every actual Grid Girl I've seen talking about it has said how much fun the job was and how they got to travel the world, meet amazing people and have been well paid. They're left feeling like a minority have taken away their option to choose.

Do they travel the world? From what I’ve seen, Grid Girls tend to be the same nationality as the host GP.

What doesn't make sense is your quotation; that's not my quote up there...

Without taking sides too much, the fact that the people whose jobs are being eliminated object doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Coal workers don't like having their jobs eliminated either, but most people can agree that eliminating coal is the way forward.

Without taking sides too much, the fact that the people whose jobs are being eliminated object doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Coal workers don't like having their jobs eliminated either, but most people can agree that eliminating coal is the way forward.

That's true. I didn't post it for that reason though. Just that it gave some of the grid girls views on the subject and a bit more insight into their lives.

For example one lady has posted the "scantily clad" outfits she wore in the grid, which where nothing but. The other one hosts a web page about racing, which goes towards the questions about their knowledge of the sport (as if air hostesses know how to fly a plane for example...). Another one became a stunt driver. On another article, a NASCAR monster energy girl was saying that her dad was racing, so she had some inside knowledge to say the least. Plus she had a degree, not the mindless bimbo that the media alluded to.

This topic was a big news item yesterday and had a massive discussion on Reddit. There was a very good post in there from a guy who said his wife has been doing it for the past 5 years. There's WAY more to the role than meets the eye. His wife had to be fluent in more than one language, had to be up at 4am each day of a weekend, had to do all manner of meet-and-greets and with sponsors and VIPs, be capable of translating for them - the actual holding of the sign constituted about 30 mins work over the most hectic weekend of her year. She was extremely well paid for the gig - like $10,000. He was very against ditching the grid girls.

So when they tried kids on the grid, they had to get up at 4am, be fluent in multiple languages, do meet and greets etc? I’d say no. So those jobs will still be available, might even improve, because being a beautiful woman wouldn’t be a requirement. All the ugly bilinguals out there will be in with a chance. I’m sure teams have apprentices, let them hold the signs and umbrellas up.

I hope you read the rest of my post. I'm in complete agreement with you. And so were the folks that responded to his post on Reddit