Are we discussing, or are we arguing? I'll discuss. I'm not going to argue.

Looking at the numbers from last year, which league had the greatest turnout AND/OR the greatest income to the club? As a club, is it our requirement to protect leagues that are struggling number wise, or should we best use our resources towards leagues that are growing?

Waterworks-Hands down, it has no competition, and no one wants to compete, because we all like it, and want to play it. It is the sole league that truly has shown it is the "man" of leagues within the KCFDC

What is the purpose of leagues? To highlight a course? Garner revenue for the club? Legitimize a handful of people playing a particular course? If a league was not KCFDC sanctioned, does this prevent people from gathering to play together? How about collecting money and redistributing it? Does it have to be KCFDC approved?

It should be approved, absolutely. You have a governing body of the local sport that has spent years, in many cases longer than the players have been alive at promoting the sport, and helping to build the relationships that allow the sport to be played. In many instances the sole reasons course are there is from direct work with members of club working towards building additional playing areas. Many of the reasons that we are so fortunate is from the work that many have done in the past, as such having that consistency with leagues, and developments within the courses is what has fostered, and nurtured growth in most of the parks. As those parks personnel leave and go to other areas, they remember the support, education and partnerships to determine the best plan of action within their new park that they are looking to program. It doesn't stop people from playing (FTL-fine example-but also doesn't conflict with regularly planned league times)

Now this is an argument that courses that aren't KCFDC approved, can they have a KCFDC league, absolutely in my mind, just as it is possible to have a league without KCFDC approval, but.....getting a league on a course without the permission of the club on a course that is KCFDC will probably lead to other questions by the P&R, and in turn working on a plan to eliminate from happening, and partnering with the KCFDC on a solution.

If people want to play Cliff on Monday's, is there anything to prevent them?

For that matter, if a group of people wanted to register a PDGA league, myself or anybody else, is there a legal basis to prevent them from playing on any course that is not private? Only private courses I'm aware of are Old Pike and Stilwell.

Absolutely, and in fact I am thinking of running a league on alternating nights as a PDGA event, having it rotate through M-F each week a different night, so that every league would be a PDGA league night at the course over the course of the 10 weeks.

Last year, Cliff Drive started with one coordinator, then moved to another coordinator. I recall reading some expression of frustration of it being a lot to handle needing subsitutes, closing down early, etc.

"closing down early" Uncertain, but I was in Ohio, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota to start off league season. I couldn't do it, and it struggled. As such when I took a new position I came back to make it work, and continued the tradition of having PDGA leagues on Monday night. That increased awareness and attendance. The draw of that was what I felt was a good thing to harness the energy and power of the PDGA league. As such when your schedule prohibits you from returning to your Wednesday nights, instead of really looking at the impact it has in a town with 3 other leagues on that night, it is about convenience to you. And I get it, I completely understand that it is a tough job and schedule demands make it hard. However, I had not worried about another league night, and certainly on the most congested to be approved. My schedule sucks as well on Monday nights, but there is a consistency that I had brought as well as the advertisement already on the Monday at Cliff/Blue Valley would be PDGA.

Hey Brett, Discussions with the board are still in the works. As of now it is planning on running but most likely will be moving to a different night. We'll keep it posted.The earliest we'll start is first week of April with actual rated rounds a week or two after that.

Rob

This discussion started 2 weeks ago and your post made no indication as I followed up with I will probably make it return. So you ignore it, go about what is best for you. Coolio, I get it but I don't appreciate it. You knew it was happening, but it ultimately is more important at this time for you to ignore what has been going on, and do what's best. We all do it, I just don't like the lack of tact or communication on it. I had one e-mail about this possibility. But ultimately it is great for you, but hurts other league options. In lieu of that why fight it. You can have it. I mean you live here in KC right, so ultimately to me it seems to align well with your desire to make $$$ at running events, which I have no desire to do. We have a difference in philosophies. I like to work the parks I play in and help improve the land, you appear to want to use the land that others work and promote the sport in your vein of profit. (yes argumentative, sorry, I am calling it as I see it in this light though, my glasses may not be the same color as others)

To which I say in all honesty, that is great. I hope you do make money and it is something you give your time for. There is nothing wrong with that, but you haven't in my eyes shown an example of how to do work within the club and the parks that make me feel you are doing it the way that it should go. But rather in many cases appear to be unilateral with the approach on how to give back to the community on a sport that you have less than a few years playing with an organization that has helped promote for 30 some years.

Is Liberty a club course? Did the club approve a league on Wednesdays? Does Penny at Rosedale care? Not sure, just asking.

Last year, how many consistent PDGA players played any of the Monday league's and vice versa?

Here's the kicker:

Should a government body (KCFDC or Federal Govt) support an industry due to the concerns of a few (leagues or subsidized corn, automaker bailouts, bank bailouts, etc.)

Sometimes the answer is yes. Sometimes it is no.

The government argument?!?

It's an all volunteer organization. We work and many have years ahead of you to make this sport great. One of the fantastic things about KC and our golf scene is that typically we can work on things that make sense. Generally these come in the form of conversations as to whom can run league, who wants to run it, and how can it be done. Ultimately though attempting to hold 4 leagues on one night......FAIL, and as such I will pull out Cliff. I can't do Tuesday's-Swope, Wednesday's-Rosedale, Thursdays'-WW, (all of which are within 17 minutes of the course) which leaves Friday. Since I travel often in summer months to go other places and play the idea of having it on Friday makes no sense. So the rational decision made is to remove it from consideration for me to run. I have put out there that anyone can run it if they choose, and I will help where I can. But ultimately to me with your knowledge that I would be running a PDGA event at Cliff for most of the year....speaks volumes to me on your thoughts about me (which I already have an idea of) and the notion that your goals are above those that make sense for the local disc golf community.

I don't truly care that you want to run a league, I just really am saddened that the notion of the BoD, who has shown great strides IMO recently, decided that the idea of having 4 leagues in a night makes sense. You did what you wanted and got it. Kudos for your. The rest of the community of disc golfers can enjoy it, and it will be fun playing the sport. That is great as well. The sad thing is that the only true option for competitive disc golf night at Cliff gets blown up because your schedule is more important than the notion of keeping things consistent within the community.

Are we discussing, or are we arguing? I'll discuss. I'm not going to argue.

Looking at the numbers from last year, which league had the greatest turnout AND/OR the greatest income to the club? As a club, is it our requirement to protect leagues that are struggling number wise, or should we best use our resources towards leagues that are growing?

What is the purpose of leagues? To highlight a course? Garner revenue for the club? Legitimize a handful of people playing a particular course? If a league was not KCFDC sanctioned, does this prevent people from gathering to play together? How about collecting money and redistributing it? Does it have to be KCFDC approved?

If people want to play Cliff on Monday's, is there anything to prevent them?

For that matter, if a group of people wanted to register a PDGA league, myself or anybody else, is there a legal basis to prevent them from playing on any course that is not private? Only private courses I'm aware of are Old Pike and Stilwell.

Last year, Cliff Drive started with one coordinator, then moved to another coordinator. I recall reading some expression of frustration of it being a lot to handle needing subsitutes, closing down early, etc.

Is Liberty a club course? Did the club approve a league on Wednesdays? Does Penny at Rosedale care? Not sure, just asking.

Last year, how many consistent PDGA players played any of the Monday league's and vice versa?

Here's the kicker:

Should a government body (KCFDC or Federal Govt) support an industry due to the concerns of a few (leagues or subsidized corn, automaker bailouts, bank bailouts, etc.)