Post by rational on Jan 14, 2016 12:56:09 GMT -5

Maybe we can observe what appears to be designed byCreator that will continually vet until all is perfectly vetted

This flies in the face of logic. An omnipotent omniscient being would have no need to iterate through flawed designs to find the correct one.

I cannot deny that this earth /universe is incredibly andwonderfully created/designed to demonstrate thingsthat not only appear to be designed but are truly designed.

Yet for all of your rhetoric I have not seen a single thing that could not have come into being without a creator. Can you explain the wonderful design that results in about a 6% failure rate in humans?

We can either believe that or not.

I guess what you are saying is that people can watch others being buried in a mudslide and still say - "Oh look. Isn't that a wonderfully designed river of mud that is conveniently burying the victims as it kills them."

Post by dmmichgood on May 30, 2016 20:15:42 GMT -5

Figurative compass, They should be inherent to human beings, Unless we need to "learn morals" from a higherpower...

This is something that humans should try tounderstand, isn't it? Where should we gofor answers, if we don't know the answer?

We do learn morality but it isn't necessary to do so through a "higher power."

We have learned it by understanding that reciprocity with those that we live amongst allows us to live in more peaceful existence.

Reciprocity is when there is situation or relationship between two or more people or groups & they agree to help each other & to allow each other to have the same rights, the same treatment that they hope to enjoy themselves.

By doing so, they each can feel safe that their neighbor isn't going to enter their house without permission & take their life or their belongings.

Post by Commonman on May 31, 2016 17:11:20 GMT -5

Of course if we assume that children will alwaysmake the choice that is wisest, then do the parents have to negotiate their responsibilities?

It seems like it would take a lot of agreementsthat could be easier accomplished with proper parenting and doing unto others as you would that they do unto you..... it makes gooduse of what Jesus tried to show us how to live.

Post by dmmichgood on May 31, 2016 18:55:56 GMT -5

Of course if we assume that children will always make the choice that is wisest, then do the parents have to negotiate their responsibilities?

It seems like it would take a lot of agreements that could be easier accomplished with proper parenting and doing unto others as you would that they do unto you..... it makes good use of what Jesus tried to show us how to live.

Of course proper parenting is "doing unto others as you would that they do unto you..... "

However,one doesn't need a higher power to realize is the best way, Jesus or no one else.

And in fact Jesus wasn't the first one to advocate that principle.As I said as mankind evolved, they realized that reciprocity WAS the the way to act towards others.

Post by Commonman on Jun 1, 2016 1:02:09 GMT -5

Why is there something , why is there a universe?

Could there be a superior home to dwell in, andno conscious beings dwelling there that couldenjoy it ?? A marvelous utopia that remainsuninhabited by living beings that would enjoythe thought that perhaps there is a purpose thatthese marvelous places might exist for a reason

Perhaps consciousness needs to exist first. Consciousness can consciously create such aplace. and not just as a "mind exercise ". Hmm

A consciousness that is eternal and has a naturethat also is eternal. What could that nature consistof? It seems that there is a quality thatrequires eternal traits that among them we can observe what these qualities are... and thesequalities have the quality that has existedfrom eternity, and throughout eternity.

We can call these qualities by a name, yet thatdoes not in any way restrict the quality.

I would propose that one such eternal qualitymust be justices , it is a most wonderful qualityIn its purity untainted state, if one could be soprivledge to "observe it" . Hmmmm

Post by rational on Jun 1, 2016 11:57:04 GMT -5

Could there be a superior home to dwell in, andno conscious beings dwelling there that couldenjoy it ?? A marvelous utopia that remainsuninhabited by living beings that would enjoythe thought that perhaps there is a purpose thatthese marvelous places might exist for a reason

I think the root meaning of utopia is an excellent description! Accurate too.

Post by Commonman on Jun 1, 2016 16:03:05 GMT -5

Could there be a superior home to dwell in, andno conscious beings dwelling there that couldenjoy it ?? A marvelous utopia that remainsuninhabited by living beings that would enjoythe thought that perhaps there is a purpose thatthese marvelous places might exist for a reason

I think the root meaning of utopia is an excellent description! Accurate too.

Post by Commonman on Jun 2, 2016 6:12:40 GMT -5

Could there be a superior home to dwell in, andno conscious beings dwelling there that couldenjoy it ?? A marvelous utopia that remainsuninhabited by living beings that would enjoythe thought that perhaps there is a purpose thatthese marvelous places might exist for a reason

I think the root meaning of utopia is an excellent description! Accurate too.

Well, if you would have read the next paragraph, there is reference of this being a very unlikelyScenario, also. In order for there to be a perfectdwelling place, there needs to be a Creator with intentions tomake such a place.

It would be very accurate to conclude that such a place could never exist without a purpose and a creator !

Post by dmmichgood on Jun 2, 2016 16:09:29 GMT -5

I think the root meaning of utopia is an excellent description! Accurate too.

Well, if you would have read the next paragraph, there is reference of this being a very unlikely Scenario, also. In order for there to be a perfect dwelling place, there needs to be a Creator with intentions to make such a place.

It would be very accurate to conclude that such a place could never exist without a purpose and a creator !Thank you for your analysis .

You are correct that a Utopia, a perfect place, is indeed unlikely to exist!However, that hasn't caused people to cease to long for such a place e.g., Heaven!

Why do people want a perfect place? Probably because life seems so complicated & often difficult.

Definition of a utopia:"A utopia is an imagined community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities."

The word was coined by Sir Thomas More in 1516 book Utopia .The term has been used to describe bothintentionalcommunities that attempt to create ideal societies, and the imagined societies portrayed in fiction.Again, you are right that in order for there to be a perfect dwelling place, there needs to be a creator with intentions to make such a place.The "creator" can be either a supernatural or a natural (human) creator.

It can be an "imagined" community either created by a supernatural being like the creation of such a place called "heaven" or a human author like Sir Thomas More's 1516 book called Utopia or Plato's Republic.

There are "physical" places which are intentionally created by people.In the US a famous one was Oneida Community in New York.

Utopian communities although they are supposed to "perfect" the perfection is in the eyes of the beholder who created it and doesn't cover all people. There are always strings attached as how to be a member of the community.

Post by Commonman on Jun 2, 2016 19:22:01 GMT -5

That is exactly the point, we are agreeing 100%

Habitable paradises , even parts of this earth could easily be considered to be quitewonderfully habitable , and yet there arepeople that will say it can't happen by accident , there need be a well thought outplan to put a wonderful place into existance.

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