When a news clip comes out talking about how Patrick Chan was found drinking underage (if he's in Canada then he isn't underage but w/e), smoking pot, or sleeping around then I'll believe he's tool, but until that happens (which it won't because he's a good kid), I'm going to continue thinking of Patrick as a great athlete and good role model for teenagers

i know I'll regret sticking my nose in here and perhaps help to perpetuate this stuff...(sigh) Oh, well.

Apparently, Patrick's 3A had become really quite consistent and he had been training a quad with some success before his injury.. He tried to come back from his injury in time for Skate Canada, which was obviously too soon. He still was not 100 % at Canadians.( Though they tried to put a good face on it ) He lost his coach because he opted for hi-tech training to speed recovery of the Axel. His programs are so filled with point garnering detail , that he might not need as many jumps on a given day as many other competitors might. This can be true for other CoP style athletes as well. So ,in light of his injury, his camp decided not to push for the quad this season, though he still trains it. He hasn't written off the possibility of ever using it. More important in his training, is to restore the 3A to a high consistency. ( He hasn't said no-one should ever do the quad, or that skaters who do the quad are not good skaters. He's said ..somewhat inartfully ..that it's not enough to rely on it alone. )

I wish he would learn a little diplomacy, sooner rather than later, but trust he will, however long it takes. So I can't really get my knickers in a twist when he goofs.

Likewise, I can't summon the outrage of some others when Plushy engages in his "it's not man skating" routine..Even when I see translations of what he says for Russian consumption, which has been a little stronger than what he's said in NA media.. I wouldn't expect anything else, particularly when he's back in the game. ( I'm not so sanguine about the politicking of federations ..)
But ,back to Plushy..like Patrick training the quad, I notice he did try to alter his program a bit for CoP ( too little , too late) : all the while , saying skating is regressing. Evan, whatever his past offenses, put up a sign in his room saying "Mind your own business.", wily old veteran that he is. (Patrick, take note .) Johnny, having learned to couch barbs in graciousness, praises his competitors while pointing out he needs no lectures from flowing gold locks or tanned faces. Brian has made so many excuses , hardly anyone credits anything he says anymore , the poor guy.
I'd rather judge them by their skating. If I cared so much about speechifyin', I'd go to a debate.

I can't say I feel the same about Elvis, though. He's downright venomous. I can't buy that he's being objective. I feel he's wanting to protect his own image. No skater can control the direction a sport takes as it progresses, once they've retired ( Trixi Schuba ), but he won't let go. Do I buy that he really wants to shower Johnny with kudos ? Not on your Nellie. He's trying to prove his own fairness , so we'll buy it when he says it's not personal. Methinks he doth protest too much. He never wanted the sport to be even as balanced as it was when he was in it and I think he resents anything that he feels may make him appear in a negative light. He's not defending Plushenko.. he's using Plushy to prop up his own image.

The press is prone to hyperbole and premature annointings and Elvis has recieved much of this in his career. Recently some sillies ( Rod Black among them, I believe ) have speculated that Patrick holds the potential to become our greatest champion ever. I guess the great Elvis doesn't take that personally, either.

So to those who look to Elvis to rationalize an extreme position..consider the source.

It really is starting to get creepy how you post exactly what I'm thinking!

I think the poster was just trying to imitate the tone of the NA coverage on Plush and apply the same attitude to an NA skater to make a point.

See this for comparison from the men's short program thread:

I suggest you go back and read this poster's previous postings in this thread when it comes to Patrick and in other threads regarding the Mens Event. This Troll, and considering he/she joined this site and board only a month ago and is doing nothing but posting venom filled posting after venom filled posting when it comes to Patrick, is exactly that. A Troll and nothing but.

It's one thing to dislike a skater for whatever reason, but to spend the time digging through YouTube to find something that happened nearly five years ago to prop up whatever delusional point this Troll thinks it's making? Then to say that due to that Patrick needs to be destroyed!?!

That's not making a point. That's not imitating anything the Media's doing. That's Troll behaviour and also beyond disgusting!! Also embrassing to this Forum.

Why is it behavour like this would get anyone kicked off of just about any other Message Board out there, but on Skating MB's, it's okay? I don't get that.

Reporters' exploration of the quad v. no-quad story is getting ridiculous. Even European bronze medalist Elene Gedevanishvili was asked to weigh in.
"I think men should do quads, because they are men," she said.

Here are comments from "Quad King" Tim Goebel about Elvis, Evan and Plushy, from "Current Skate of Mind."

"I was interested in what Timothy Goebel, 2002 Olympic Bronze medalist, thought of the scathing article Elvis Stojko wrote about the Men’s results, called “The Night they Killed Figure Skating”. (To read it, click here.) Tim sent me this rebuttal:

“In my last season of competitive skating my coach, Audrey Weisiger, had a great quote: “Adapt, or die!”. Referring to the new judging system, she was noting the importance of being able to make changes to a program mid-season, in order to maximize points.

Evan, and many of his peers, have done just that. They have adapted. While I do agree with Elvis that the current system fails to appropriately encourage and reward risk, there are improvements the new regime has brought to the sport, as well. The most important, perhaps, is the importance placed on quality. Evan did not do a quad. Elvis is correct in saying that Evan’s jumps weren’t close to the techinical ability of Evgeny- they far exceeded his. Plushenko gave a gritty performance, and is a phenomenal competitor, but the jump quality was lacking. He barely hung on to his solo triple axel, and although Evan had a slight break in his axel combo, it was better. Lysacek did a beautiful triple lutz-triple toe, Plu barely squeaked by on his solo lutz, and did a scratchy triple lutz-double toe. Grade of execution counts for a lot, as it well should, and in every case Evan’s execution was stronger.

Another positive step the new system makes, is rewarding a well balanced program by giving bonus to difficult elements late in the program. Plushenko has one of the best triple axels in the business. He could easily do it in the bonus, but he elected not to. He front-loaded his program, and Evan spread his difficulty throughout. I appreciate how difficult that is- in the Salt Lake City Olympics, the second quad sal in my long was around the 3 minute mark. It requires a lot of training to make the big tricks happen late in a program, and Evan did so with ease.

I do not like to see the quad being such a rarity in the sport these days, and I do think that the system needs a major overhaul to encourage athletes to take risk. However, athletes must adapt to the system that they are competing under. With the help of Lori Nichol and Frank Carroll, Evan constructed a program that uses his strengths to maximize his points. He did what he needed to do to be successful within the constructs of the current system, and delivered two of the strongest programs he could possibly skate under a great deal of pressure. And that is the sign of a true champion.

In order to help the sport move forward, I would like to see a dialogue open between the ISU and former athletes who have performed multiple quads in competition. Elvis, myself, and many of our peers have invaluble competition experience for understanding the difficulty in executing these jumps. I agree that the system needs some major adjustments. Working together with the ISU, I am confident that we could come up with a point spread that would encourage and reward athletes to attempt more difficult elements, and do so without turning the sport into a jump contest.”

That's a bit disingenuous, considering he was only in two international competitions this season. And even then, he's actually landed two clean 3axels. And two more if you count Canadian nationals, and I don't know why you won't, except to make Chan look worse.

The reason why most people (including myself) don't include national competitions is that national tech teams and judges tend to overlook "minor" faults which would not be overlooked by ISU tech teams/judges.

Chan has always had a problem with the 3A, and he's never landed 3 clean 3As in any international event. In Vancouver, he landed just one clean 3A.

Jeff Buttle had the same problem. Eventually, he did finally land three 3As at Worlds 2008 and won the World Championship, at age 25.

Janetfan, Great comments from Goebel. One can criticize the system or even the outcome without disrespecting Evan, who did his job. Thanks for posting. I think you mean the website "Skate of Mind" (not "State").

Janetfan, Great comments from Goebel. One can criticize the system or even the outcome without disrespecting Evan, who did his job. Thanks for posting. I think you mean the website "Skate of Mind" (not "State").

Thanks Spun, just fixed it ........

I enjoyed hearing Tim's thoughts.
Interesting that he thought Evan won - but also thinks the system needs some fixing particularly when it comes to the quad.

When a news clip comes out talking about how Patrick Chan was found drinking underage (if he's in Canada then he isn't underage but w/e), smoking pot, or sleeping around then I'll believe he's tool, but until that happens (which it won't because he's a good kid), I'm going to continue thinking of Patrick as a great athlete and good role model for teenagers

I tend to think drinking and sleeping around are fine. Pot isn't so good if you're an athlete but it's not like cocaine or something.

Alcohol and pot might not do THAT much damage to an athlete, but I'm sure they would be at their best without it.

Yeah exactly. Alcohol diminishes muscle tone and can make you gain weight pretty fast and I know the athletes have drug testing after they compete so idk if pot use could be detected in a urine sample.