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Make fun of " kids that know nothing about hammock camping" all you want but you were not born with an entire forum's worth of hammock knowledge in your head. People are going to spend weeks learning how to make asym hammocks, cuban tarps, and down underquilts for their first hang.

Vecsus, Welcome aboard. Just erased a lot of what I started to say. Actually went back and reread the previous post and am having a hard time trying to find what you find objectionable about the responses. In my humble opinion most people that come to the Forum know nothing about hammock camping. We came here to learn and learn we did by exchanging information and that exchange is given freely and should be accepted freely. Enjoy the hang.

Just reread my post and it was much nicer the second time around.

Last edited by olddog; 10-18-2013 at 23:23.

Most of us end up poorer here but richer for being here. Olddog, Fulltime hammocker, 365 nights a year.

Gresh, you seem a bit more understanding of ENO there. But we have to assume that a company like them has done the research and knows what else is available to consumers and at what price, don't we? If that is the case it almost seems like they are preying on consumers' ignorance of what their other options are.

I don't think of it as preying on ignorance, but offering a GOOD product to those who aren't as "in the know" as we veterans of the trees may be.

When you look at it, try to consider it this way:
There are several "retail" hammock vendors - ENO, Byer of Maine, Yukon Outfitters (more commonly known as the "Woot Hammock"), Kammock, and I know a few others whose names escape me at the moment. They're all what I'll call entry-level hammocks. ENO also offers underquilts (both down and synthetic), tarps (of varying shapes and sizes), suspensions, a bug net, and "bells and whistles" products (like Twilights or the Possum Bag). Yukon Outfitters recently released a bug net hammock (from what I hear, it's comparable to a Skeeter Beeter from Grand Trunk (another vendor a failed to mention)) and by the end of the year plan to have a tarp available commercially.

At the forefront of these companies is ENO, obviously. I would argue that they're not trying to snipe off those unwitting customers who don't know better but rather they're trying to offer everything a beginning hanger might need (literally, everything) in a retail environment. When I first started hanging, I was aware of Warbonnet. My first hang was in a borrowed Blackbird but when it came to finally outfitting myself, I went with what was readily available, had numerous reviews on Amazon and other sites (along with here on the forum), and was reasonably priced.

That said, I'll reiterate (again) that I don't think it's preying, but rather holding a different corner of the market. Comparing retail vendors to cottage vendors is like comparing apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by Cali

Gresh, when you let your friends try your hammock gear, let them know about the cottage vendors and how much better their gear is than the bulk retail stuff. Educate them about the best route to take. They will thank you for it.

I always do...Cali (name change? Really?). I'll always sing the praises of my ENO for anybody starting out. Then, I'll introduce them to Swamp Sling and point them at any number of our cottage vendors (I have my favorites obviously, but they're all good in their own right) if they have any interest in taking up hammock camping as a serious hobby.

Well maybe preying was the wrong way to put it. But to me it always seemed like the price jump from their hammocks to their accessories was a little exorbitant. I love my DN, and I've seen prices dip below $50 if you catch a good sale. But then you get the Profly Sil and BAM $150. It just seems like their target market is those people who will see ENO in the retailer and think it is the end-all be-all of hammock gear, and not the crowd who will go home and do tons of research before making a big purchase ($150 is a big purchase for me ). I wasn't trying to detract from the quality of their products.

Last edited by iRokk; 10-21-2013 at 03:37.

I may be dumb, but at least I'm ugly!

I've done so much, with so little, for so long, now I can do anything with nothing.

Vecsus, Welcome aboard. Just erased a lot of what I started to say. Actually went back and reread the previous post and am having a hard time trying to find what you find objectionable about the responses. In my humble opinion most people that come to the Forum know nothing about hammock camping. We came here to learn and learn we did by exchanging information and that exchange is given freely and should be accepted freely. Enjoy the hang.

Just reread my post and it was much nicer the second time around.

I didn't have a hard time. Just about every thread in the ENO forum where someone asks about an ENO product gets riddled with "buy this" or "buy that", or buy from a cottage vendor". Everything but info about the actual product. Why do we even have an ENO forum? So people can tell you to go buy something else, and ridicule you for being such a noob?

Then there was the post with beginner this and beginner that. Came across as very elitist.

...and "young people"? That post seemed to imply that only stupid young people buy this stuff until they grow up.

How's this: I'm 44. Been sleeping outdoors in hammocks for 30 years. I camp just about every weekend. I take a deep trip just about every year. I have more hammocks than I can count. My go-to system is the ENO One-Link with double nest and Atlas straps. It's very comfortable, and very convenient, and everything works together. I didn't have to make a system; ENO did it for me.

But I guess I paid the stupid tax because I didn't buy a Warbonnet... (another post that was condescending to users of ENO gear...)

None of these posters have bought the Housefly, or have any experience with the Housefly, or had anything constructive to say about the Housefly, other than to bash ENO and ENO users. Why did they even bother to comment? You won't have to reach to find the answer.

There are people who will think you're a fool for spending money on Hennessey or Warbonnet, because you could have just put some ropes on a table cloth. That's fine, but if you don't have anything constructive to say about the aforementioned gear when someone asks, then stay out of those forums. Likewise, if you don't have actual input other than just bashing or letting us all know what a pro you are because you own this gear or that...well...you get the point.

I've not seen any ENO bashing or user-bashing here. As you'll see under people's names, many people here on the forums have things other than an ENO that they use on the regular...but I'd be willing to bet you'd be hard pressed to find somebody that either doesn't own an ENO or has used one on the regular for a while.

Just because people have other things (and suggest the use of such) over what you use personally as your go-to kit doesn't shout elitism. It shouts "this is what I use, and here's why I recommend it."

I applaud your use of the One-Link system and your attachment to it. Brand loyalty goes a long way, I think...and I think it shows in that people are willing to talk about their kits as well as you talk about your kit. I stand by my comments about ENO (as do most of the other posters in this thread). If you have a thing that works for you, by all means - get at it. Use that thing 'till it's threadbare and get you another one. If you're interested in trying other things, there's plenty of people willing to share their opinions just as you've shared yours.

Take a breath, mate...have a hang, and recognize that nobody's attacking ENO or the Housefly or your decision to use ENO products exclusively, and join in the conversation without implicating yourself in paying the stupid tax.

I have no problem recommending ENO hammocks as they make a perfectly comfortable hammock. But I typically don't recommend their accessories because I personally won't use them. This has nothing to do with the idea that ENO products are for uninformed beginners or idiots, or even the idea that their products won't work (except for the original slap straps and the ember uq). I'm sure this tarp will work just fine and keep someone dry in just about any storm, and their down uq and TQ will work just fine to keep you warm to 35-40. What it comes down to for ME are a couple of things:
1) specs
2) cost

A lot of my camping is backpacking, which means weight is a large factor for me. Also, in the case of the TQ and uq, I need gear that will work for any of the temps I encounter. For me, the eno gear doesn't get the job done in the specs department. All of it is too heavy, and the quilts aren't warm enough.

In terms of cost, I can get gear that fulfills my specs requirements from cottage vendors for either close to the same price, or much cheaper than the eno gear which won't work for me (those eno quilts seriously overpriced). An added bonus in supporting the cottage vendors is I get to send my business to fellow forum members.

Now, all that being said, if someone prefers to shop in a large retail setting, or can get eno gear for a really good price AND it will do what they need, the. They should go ahead and get the eno gear. My opinion is just that, my opinion and in the end a person has to make their own decision.