Here's an alternate theory, assuming the Jesus was a historical figure:

Well, since, as Ehrman points out, the "miraculous" is the *least* probable explanation, it goes to the end of the line. Thus *any* other possible explanation goes ahead of it. This definitely would go ahead of the "divine" explanation.

However there is no proof Jesus ever existed, thus THAT has to be addressed first.

Insufferable know-it-all.
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche

Quote:So, Idiot for Christ, I hope you realize, that by making this thread, in which your Jeebus guy's resurrection comes up as a prominent search engine result, you have directed many hundreds of views here already, (650 at least so far in a few hours), and which will be literally thousands in the days and weeks, and months to come, and by providing not a shred of rebuttal, or intelligent answers to support any of the nonsense that you thought was unimpeachable from the mouth of your great Prophet, William Lane Craig, you have scandalized many thousands of people looking for information on this subject, and have afforded us an opportunity to utterly destroy Craig and his gang of 3rd rate idiots. I would imagine, that in your world, one might have to answer for such astounding pride and arrogance some day, inasmuch as you are not prepared, or competent to deal with the consequences of what you have started.

Not to deal with the consequences? Not sure what you're getting at there. Are you speaking in how to reply? Etc?

You are a little foolish in a few things about my post.

Mainly, that you think I beleif I will change anyone's mind on here. I certainly won't, It's quite obvious that many on here work hard at there "lack of belief"

Now, a lot has been posted, since and I think that's great! Even if I look foolish in the process - I'm not worried about that.

If ANYONE on here bases their lack of belief on my post, or thinks my post BOLSTERS their "lack of belief" than they are faulty in their thinking.

I'm not here to win an argument or a debate.

However, I will address YOUR longer post.

Even if it means I look silly, I don't back away from a challenge...unlike some people we know, right Bucky?

Here's an excerpt of Craig's summary of the empty tomb and his rebuttal against grave robbers. It's absolutely horrible:

“Well, look at these other hypotheses. Perhaps, for example, family members of Jesus stole the body. Isn’t that more probable?” I don’t think so.
More probable than a GOD bringing the body back to life? Grave robbers are extremely probable. And they wouldn't have to be family members.

Notice there’s no motive in that case for stealing the body; the family members of Jesus didn’t believe in him during his lifetime.
No motive? And he says this based off of... the detailed accounts of the bible? Pure speculation.

Nobody else other than Joseph and his servants and the women disciples even knew where the body had been interred.
Speculation. You have no idea, Craig, who did or did not know where the body was. The inclusion, or exclusion, of their names from the bible means nothing as the bible is not an exhaustive, nor completely accurate, account of the happenings of that time.

The time was insufficient for such a conspiracy to be hatched and launched between Friday night and Sunday morning.
Oh my. How much time would they need to hatch a conspiracy, then? The convenient conclusions from speculation are making my head hurt.

Also the grave clothes in the tomb disprove the hypothesis of tomb robbery; nobody would undress the body before taking it away.
Right. With all the things you believe in, this particular one just isn't probable?

Conspiracies like this always come to light; his Roman guards would have been happy to inform the Jewish leaders of what had happened.
Oh? They would have?

And this hypothesis can’t explain the appearances of Jesus or the origin of the Christian belief in his resurrection. So for all those reasons, that’s an improbable hypothesis.
The origin of belief can easily be explained. Rumors. Lies. Myth. Fanaticism. He literally claims here that the resurrection story could have only come into existence through an actual resurrection, and nothing else. So alien abductions, then. Do you apply your logic to those as well? What about Elvis sightings?

I can't wait to make our video.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?

(18-10-2012 10:33 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote: It's quite obvious that many on here work hard at there "lack of belief"

If ANYONE on here bases their lack of belief on my post, or thinks my post BOLSTERS their "lack of belief" than they are faulty in their thinking.

Faulty in our thinking? So we're all here just to make noise?

The point of sharing facts, arguments, and evidence is so we can draw our own conclusions. The very point of these debates is to determine what the truth is and get people to think. If anyone here decides to believe based on your arguments, or stop believing based on others, or simply take a second look at what it is they think is true, then we've all succeeded in encouraging critical thinking, regardless of the final outcome.

We're not here working hard to "not believe." We're here to do a critical examination of religious claims. If you presented solid evidence of the resurrection, I'd have no choice but to believe it. And it wouldn't bother me to believe it. Up to this point, however, the claim endures in the absence of strong evidence.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?

Sure, but i try to manipulate all of you here, you didn't notice?
Ah, coming back to the angel-issue, he/she is also sick and tired of the wings, so after the tv-robbery he/she flys into a jet-engine of an plane.
The plane crashes into the hospital, were the surgery was intended to happen.
Sade little angel!
Good luck next time.
Viel Glück beim nächsten mal.
And we didn't say "Mein Herr", anymore, we just say " Alter, was geht?"
That means "Old Fellow, what's up?"

Danke, Alter.

So, what happened to "Wie geht's?" (It's been about 20 years since my last Deutsch class)

Idiot Craig and idiot IdiotForChrist and all the other idiots who don't read their bible are all perfectly justified in NOT reading it.

You see, the bible is the infallible word of God. Inerrant. Perfect. So it is, therefore, perfectly acceptable to defend it without even needing to read it. Whatever is in those mysterious, unread pages is totally defensible because it is God's perfect beautiful message to mankind - no other reason is needed, including reading or understanding the message.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein

(17-10-2012 06:32 PM)Marco Krieger Wrote: Sure, but i try to manipulate all of you here, you didn't notice?
Ah, coming back to the angel-issue, he/she is also sick and tired of the wings, so after the tv-robbery he/she flys into a jet-engine of an plane.
The plane crashes into the hospital, were the surgery was intended to happen.
Sade little angel!
Good luck next time.
Viel Glück beim nächsten mal.
And we didn't say "Mein Herr", anymore, we just say " Alter, was geht?"
That means "Old Fellow, what's up?"

Danke, Alter.

So, what happened to "Wie geht's?" (It's been about 20 years since my last Deutsch class)

Also, you are correct. I didn't notice. Curses!!

Haha, "Wie geht's?" is still alive and in use, but only if you are as old as a stone like me. I had my last english-lesson 30 years ago.
Our kid's uses english and denglish words and greeting-formes more then ever.
It's cooler to say "chill your live to the base" or "WTF and so on.
My daugther and her friends sometimes sitting around our kitchentable and talking, i didn't understand a word.

You shall not curse, thats not nice.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.