We don't need pictures, in my opinion. They are seldom used with good effect in my experience, and they burn a lot of lines on the screen. This has to be particularly annoying to folks using smart phones. People can always link to a graph or picture if they really need one to substantiate their arguments.

Thanks, by the way, for putting in all the work on our behalf. I know it sometimes seems like we're an unruly mob, but there are some great ideas here, and I think this forum is meaningful for the opportunity to freely discuss and debate it provides.

Two honest questions here and please forgive my naïveté. If you didn't create for debate and discussion, was it your intention (if you don't mind me asking) that the site be used more for action / planning of actions / spreading real news etc.?. That's my guess. If I'm prying, feel free obviously to ignore me. I'm genuinely interested though because I can venture a guess at how much of yourself you put into developing and maintaining this site.

And my second question is sort of silly but I'll ask it anyway: not that you'd remember, but was that you I had the chance to say hello to way back when under the blue tarp when I dropped off those generators? I was the guy in the coat and tie if that jogs your memory.

If you didn't create for debate and discussion, was it your intention (if you don't mind me asking) that the site be used more for action / planning of actions / spreading real news etc.?

Bingo! We also had the same intention when we started /r/occupywallstreet but watched it quickly turn into a place where people talk about politics rather than actually working to make the event happen. That's just how reddit is, people like to debate. So I figured rather than fighting that tendency, letting reddit be the D&D board and whipping up a quick and dirty forum (based on the article commenting system I'd already written) that would be specifically for organizers and to build upon the map system which was already helping radicals get in touch with others in their local area.

People didn't take advantage of it as much as I'd hoped. Things were really disorganized back then and there was so much tension and bickering. One of the few guys I really got along with and managed to convince to get on board using the site as a tool for organizing was Chris who worked with Food Not Bombs and was bottom-lining the food committee. I recommended he set up a WePay account I could promote on the website and write a post asking for help with food related logistics. We helped him raise a lot of money and that WePay was later converted into the NYCGA general fund. Chris also had this brilliant idea for starting up the 99 percent project.

Bless you mate for all that you and the others have done, are doing and will be doing re. OWS. I'd never have thought that I'd ever feel as enthused, invigorated and even optimistic about such A Real American Resistance Movement to Bankster Despotism as I have these last 3 months ! Onwards and Upwards !!

Re. your taste in tunes, OMG ! Oh My Goth !! What are "Frozen Autumn" gonna do when it starts to get warmer in spring and (perish the thought) hotter and brighter in The Global Summer of Resistance that beckons ?!! Will they go into stasis until the next "Frozen Autumn"? iLol! Further, check out :

Wow. So much great work being done. This site, among many other things, has helped make connections that matter, connections that have resulted in real action.

It's also strengthened the spirits and resolve of many of us who, through this site, were reminded how many good and smart people there are working on taking this system apart (difficult) and putting it back together again (even more difficult). On its best days, this site is a revolutionary's Swiss army knife, a well made tool that is helping so-called radicals connect and act.

Everyone is amazed that a movement that started in a park could spread around the world and unite like minded people. They detail arcane political and social theories about how this spark turned into a huge fire. But it's not so mysterious. The reason a protest in a park spread round the world is this site brought others directly into the park and got them face to face with real revolutionaries fighting for the human spirit.

Such quality connections that apeak to their lives are what people hunger for round the world. The buzz that comes from those high quality connections is contagious. It's the buzz felt round the world. And it has translated beautifully into a real and lasting resistance movement. As a result, the dam will eventually break and a new day will dawn.

As Breyton Breytonbach said shortly before being sentenced to prison for his protest activity in South Africa, "Whether we win, or whether we die, freedom will rise like the sun through the morning clouds."

Agreed. I am really happy that this forum has helped people connect, have fun, and radicalize. Speaking of helping people connect, one feature I've been meaning to exploit is the user map, to help people connect with other rad occupiers in their local area. I never really gave that feature the attention it deserved and the database is absolutely huge. I'll probably end up creating a spin-off website to promote it :)

[-]1 points
by ZenDogTroll
(13032)
from South Burlington, VT
5 years ago

Hi jart

I received an email, I deleted it - probably the last one deleted. Can't remember who it was from.

It was obnoxious - and it mentioned GirlFriday in it -

I note she is not around?

My bet is that she received a similar email, probably from either the same id or same isp -

Would you mind checking to see if this hypothesis is correct?

If it is correct, if GirlFriday did receive a note from same id or isp, and this event coincides with her last participation here, would you be willing to check and see if the contents of the note merit forwarding to law enforcement?

We've been getting such a ridiculous amount of spam, so in trying to deal with it some legit posts are getting removed by mistake. Please accept our apologies. We have limited resources and people have been making careers out of messing with this forum >_>

I appreciate the effort. I have been getting more and more frustrated. I would go "read only": if it would get rid of some of the attack stuff. I try to contribute rather than throwing sand in the gears and there has been a lot of good stuff. That is why I keep coming back.

"Thrasy, please count the number of spaces that are occupied by the word "TROLL".

Done? OK. Now please COUNT the number of spaces that YOU use up when you "deface" - to use your own words - a post you dislike. Most often you place in lieu of real comments 10 to 20 copies of the SAME PICTURE, which has no bearing whatsoever with the topic of the post. You seem to favor rabbits, although you have also been accused by some users of posting pictures of penises and child porn... And you have the gumption to accuse others of "flooding the forum"???"

It's impossible to post pictures now. That period is in the past. Please move on and do the right thing. Don't try to create mob attacks on particular users you don't like. Contact the moderators privately.

I'm prepared to move on, Thrasy, as soon as you have publicly recognized THE TRUTH: that you are an anti-OWS paid troll, a government mole, a psyops who has created havoc on this forum and threatened legit users of this site, which is against moderating policies.

As for "mob attacks", aren't you getting a little paranoid here? WHERE is the mob, pray tell?

"Some good posts are getting removed by mistake". And have some good people been banned by mistake as well?

One of the best people on this forum - definitely not a troll!! - "Windsofchange" wrote to tell me she had suddenly found access "Forbidden". Same thing with "looselyhuman", who wrote so brilliantly, and for "MonetizingDiscontent". And where are BlueRose, nucleus and shadz66?

I see a LOT of trolls still here, in spite of numerous reports, but many of our best contributors disappearing. What's going on? Can we invite them back and finally get rid of the worst trolls?

I'm not sure why people would be seeing a forbidden, maybe something is going wrong with the csrf protections? As for Windsofchange, she emailed me and I reset her password so she should be good. The rest of those users aren't banned so I imagine they just left :\

I'm still here. Rested a while but back now. I think this forum is moving in direction of being back on track now where it's possible to interact. I think if we can hear each other, we'll challenge one another to innovate, clarify and find creative solutions. The post you type that may initially frustrate another may later inspire him or her to share something that comes from the heart and takes things to a whole new level, inspiring others.

This doesn't lift or celebrate just one person. In fact, in my view, it highlights the power of collective effort. Thanks to jart's incredible fortitude, we all have a place to interact, challenge one another, question our own assumptions and rise to our best selves. That opportunity is there thanks to this hardfought fertile environment ... occupywallst.org . Such a gift. And the power of this gift will increase exponentially if we put our egos aside (myself included) and HEAR each other. That's not to say we don't advocate strongly for our true beliefs. Just saying we need to also take a deep breath and allow our assumptions to be questions, allow ourselves to really hear the questions posed to us.

I believe such an egoless ideal in its purist form is unattainable but that in striving for it we empower the collective. As we let go of ourselves, the collective's power rises. A delicate dance, to be sure, but a productive and vital one.

The philosophical questions that arise here are legitimate and compelling. And yet it may not be as scary as we might think to give a little more, listen a little more, give up just a little on the idea of "me" being of prime importance. I wrestle with this, as I suppose we all do. However, I think I've concluded that we can become more free and more fully human as individuals if we stop protecting ourselves all the time and spend a bit more time lifting and listening to others.

I'll do my best to live up to these ideals. When I fail, I hope you tell me.

Thanks all of you out there who have done so much. Especially jart for keeping this up and running when it probably seemed fruitless at times. It was worth it. It appears the movement will emerge renewed and refreshed in the coming weeks and months thanks to the many tireless supporters, occupiers and posters as well as the glue that is this site, this beautiful hub.

You write: "I think this forum is moving in direction of being back on track now where it's possible to interact."

I think there's still much room for improvement in terms of "Troll Con-troll", but I see that jart is also concerned and aware of the problem and that gives me hope.

You're not alone, jart! As you can see, many of us are deeply attached to this forum - your creation - and are more than willing to give a helping hand to cleanse it and make it a really fun place for lively debate.

I just LOVED "therising" too. He or she wrote beautifully and with profound wisdom. And do you remember "derek" and "WarmItUp"? Amazing! Both worthy of being considered among the finest thinkers of this Movement...

I suspect that, like so many of our best contributors, these people left the forum in droves when it became troll-infested and chaotic. Let's clean the place up and bring them back, shall we?

As BlueRose writes:
"Why Thrasymaque, NewEnglandPatriot, and NewEng"i"andPatriot are still here is why many good posters are NOT. The original BlueRose was also banned. "

I keep asking them: What kind of world do you want your children and grand-children to grow up in?

The problem is no only the indoctrination... it's the fact that most of the trolls are PAID. So I often wish them to make an HONEST living for a change, to find a REAL JOB, where they can really be helpful in the world.

Someday they'll regret their actions. I honestly don't think they've really thought things through so to make them think is a good thing. (And, in the meantime, I hope they're being paid a living wage!)

The biggest problems on this forum are caused by conspiracy theorists who go around making assumptions and accusing others without evidence, and who tirelessly flood this forum with nonsensical and idiotic hyperbolic claims which they repeat over and over and over again.

If you want to go around this forum and publicly accuse certain users of being "trolls" and insinuate that most of them are being paid to publish here, you should have the decency to provide strong evidence.

The truth is you get off by prancing about this forum and constantly repeating your slanderous rants that are aimed at influencing other users to gang up on those you deem are "paid trolls". The problem with this approach is that it is rude and divisive and it certainly does not help to foster meaningful discussions on the forum. It wastes time. It's spam designed to throw forum users away from the serious issues that desperately need to be discussed in a serious manner which means without the use of constant logical fallacies like ad hominem.

You would be wise to heed my advice and report trolls to the moderators via private messaging instead of using your invasive and divisive tactics to attack those who you deem are "trolls".

You are lecturing ME on avoiding "ad hominems" and yet you write that I am "acting like a spoiled infant." An "ad hominem" if ever I heard one!

You are in DENIAL, my friend, you deny what EVERYONE knows, i.e. that this forum has become TROLL-INFESTED and that the trolls have done terrible damage to this forum and thus to the Movement.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

You are openly ANTI-OWS except when it serves your purposes to flatter the forum admins as you did yesterday: "Thank you, jart. It's really cool that you're at the forefront of such an important protest. That's a wonderful experience, and I'm sure it's going to pay off in many ways. Keep up the good work."

If you were at all SINCERE in wanting to help jart and OWS, you would cease and desist from TROLLING on this forum and would consider leaving.

The Moderator, agnosticnixie, accused you just last week of "trolling" and you yourself recognize that you have been BANNED before. You also recognize that you DEFACE posters that you dislike by spamming them with PICTURES, you also recognize that you have multiple sockpuppets (Glaucon, Adeimantus, etc., etc., etc.).

You also utter THREATS, like the one you posted below an hour ago: "Stop stalking me or I'll have to retort in a way you won't like very much."
FYI, threats of any kind are AGAINST moderating policies, as they well should be.

Don't wait to get banned for good. Own up to your mistakes, MAN UP. show you have some sense of honor and decency and take the initiative of leaving this forum of your own free will.

Will you two please quit it! This is beyond ridiculous already. You're both smart enought to realize this! I cannot stand to see you sniping at eachother anymore. He did not deface any posts. He was expressing himself through pictures. What you call dafacing I call expression. So who's to say?! It's a matter of opinion for God's sake. It's over. Move on for the love of God. You two are going in circles. It's just ridiculous.

You are in DENIAL, my friend, you deny what EVERYONE knows, i.e. that this forum has become TROLL-INFESTED and that the trolls have done terrible damage to this forum and thus to the Movement.

I don't deny this at all. I know there are many trolls. Read what I posted. My argument is that it's better for everyone to report trolling by sending private messages to the moderators instead of trying to form public attacks against the people one judges as being trolls. The moderators should be the judge, not you.

The Moderator, agnosticnixie, accused you just last week of "trolling" and you yourself recognize that you have been BANNED before

agnosticnixie may have accused me of being a trolled, but she didn't ban me.

Read what I posted earlier, I was banned for a 2 hour period during the TV spamming spree because some of the spammers happen to live in my region which the moderators banned using a blanket IP ban.

Don't wait to get banned for good. Own up to your mistakes, show you have some sense of honor and take the initiative of leaving this forum of your own free will.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have heard on these boards. A user asking another one to leave because he has decided that this user he doesn't like is a troll. Give me a break.

Send a private message to the moderators and report me already. What's your problem? Are you obsessed with me? For your information, I'm not gay and I'm already married.

Stop stalking me or I'll have to retort in a way you won't like very much.

I want them back too! YES, we can beat the trolls! They're not evil as such, but most of them are PAID by the 1% to distract, disrupt and destroy meaningful conversation on this forum.

Keeping ALL trolls away at ALL times is probably utopian - but listing 90% of them and banning them is imo definitely feasible. And, jart, you know you could count on all of us to help you update that blacklist regularly. PLEASE LET US HELP YOU.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

But the ones who post racist, sexist, antisemitic or islamophobic remarks, I just CAN'T ignore. Nor can I let stand blatant lies or disinformation about OWS or calls to violence by "agents provocateurs" posing as OWSers.

Those types of comments being potentially harmful to the Movement, I feel I can't stand idly by... But then, that's just me.

I agree. We should only discuss points that matter. Anything else is a waste of time. Even if some posters are paid, what does it matter? They can only post arguments which we can either counter attack with proper counter arguments, or ignore. They can't infiltrate our minds and hypnotize us.

You are not a moderator. You shouldn't be going around this forum labeling users as being "trolls" just because they fit your definition of what a troll is. This is a major problem on this forum. A user gets angry with another one and then tries to mount a mob attack against him. This is divisive and doesn't help the protest at all.

It's not because someone disagrees with you that he is your enemy. It's not because someone criticizes certain aspects of OWS that he is your enemy. We all have different opinions. This is fine. What's important is that we work together in a positive way to mend our differences and solve the many problems around the world.

Instead of publicly attacking users who you define as trolls in an attempt to create a mob attack against them, I suggest you privately message the moderators when you feel that a user is being trollish. Give the moderators the permalink to posts you feel are trollish and let them decide.

If the movement is to succeed, these public attacks between the members of this forum should stop.

The moderators are the only judges around here.

You can help the moderators by acting in a positive way. Creating mob attacks on other users is not positive at all. It's a complete waste of time for everybody.

You know, Thrasy.....
We don't see eye to eye on a few things. We are rarely are on the same thread. You did a great job and I would bump as much as I could if you said that it needed to be done again.

BlueRose comments: "Why Thrasymaque, NewEnglandPatriot, and NewEng"i"andPatriot are still here is why many good posters are NOT. The original BlueRose was also banned. Protip, make sure your Norton is up to date."

BlueRose's comment was viciously attacked by Thasymaque and his troll buddies.

If you agree with TIOUAISE's points and his stalking me, can you please ban me. If you don't, can you please ask him to refrain from stalking me. He's starting to become very annoying and it's giving me the urge to do things I really don't want to do. My patience is nearing its end.

Thrasymaque writes to jart : "He (TIOUAISE) is starting to become very annoying and it's giving me the urge to do things I really don't want to do (...) Does that mean I can use all the powers at my disposal to take care of business without you intervening in any way?"

SINCE WHEN does a member of this forum ask the owner of the site for permission to "USE HIS POWERS" against another member? This was Thrasymaque's THIRD public, documented threat against me over the last month, so I asked him in a private message to explain himself. This is the best he could come up with: "When I said "use my powers" I wasn't talking about physical violence."

Well, what WAS he talking about then? His response: "Jart knows what I'm talking about (...) Try jart or one of the many mods." HE publicly utters the threats but jart is supposed to explain the nature of these threats to me AND agree "not to intervene"? Who does he take jart for anyway???

I didn't think Thrasymaque could surprise me anymore, but I am dumbfounded to see him cynically trying to use jart - who, as we all know, is ONE OF THE ORIGINAL FOUNDERS OF OWS - in such a disrespectful and demeaning way. The arrogance of this guy! Thrasymaque is showing his true colors, revealing just how much respect he really has for Occupy, for jart and for the members of this forum.

It's now at the very bottom of this very thread. Thrasy and his sock puppets and troll buddies attacked BlueRose's comment with so many "dislikes" that if fell to minus 13 points, but you can still read it:

"Why Thrasymaque, NewEnglandPatriot, and NewEng"i"andPatriot are still here is why many good posters are NOT. The original BlueRose was also banned. Protip, make sure your Norton is up to date."

It's much more than a "personal feud". I could send you DOZENS of comments from legit users, who all want Thrasymaque banned - for good this time.

This is an enemy of OWS who stands accused of doing great harm to this forum and to OWS.

Thasy never fails to remind us that he chose the name of an Athenian sophist... What he DOESN'T tell us is that in ancient Greece a certain Thrasymaque OVERTHREW DEMOCRACY in Cumes and replaced it with an OLIGARCHY. A perfect name for a mole working for the 1%, isn't it??? Also, Plato portrays Thrasymaque as defending "MIGHT OVER RIGHT".

The insane proliferation of trolls, sock puppets, etc. is creating an impression of chaos that has turned off many of our best contributors, and that to me is very sad both for this forum and for our Movement.

I'm still here and I appreciate all you do. I think you're doing a great job. You set me straight in the beginning and you were right to do it. You have worked your tail off as far as I can tell. We seem to disagree on a few things but I'm convinced that deep at the root of it all, all of us here pushing hard are on the side of humanity. I truly believe what I've typed so many times: Once we, the 99%, begin to focus on what we have in common rather than what separates us, we will be able to make decisions from a position of unified power rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

Anyway, that's not th point. My main point is thanks. You have some strong shoulders and you have many times been the guardrails of this movement as near as I can tell.

The message: "Forbidden (403). CSRF verification failed. Request aborted." has nothing to do with me running scripts. It has to do with Django's setup in relation to the user's setup. Please use Google to search for more information. Search for "Django Forbidden (403). CSRF verification failed". Django is the python framework this site is built with.

Jart changed the csrf settings a few times while fighting against the spammers. This might have affected your friends. They are not banned, it's only their configuration that is messed up.

FYI - Jart knows everything I'm doing. Iv'e uncovered some vulnerabilities on the site, and I have messaged her about this. I'll soon be providing her with proof of concept code. This helps us fight against the spammers by figuring out what the weak spots are in the website's code.

I took a big risk running scripts while the spammers were attacking the site. Had they been good, they could have counter attacked my machine and planted a virus on my system. What NewEnglandPatriot and I did was very useful. It permitted me to understand the site much better so that I can help jart make the code more robust. NewEnglandPatriot's defacments marked the posts and help the moderators cue in on what to delete. Some moderators have acknowledged this to me. I was also able to identify the provenance of many spammers and engaged in a short conversation with a few of them who were from Indonesia (more specifically the Sunda region near Jakarta).

Thrasy... look. You have openly bragged on this very forum about being a government mole, a psyops (specializing in psychological operations) and have constantly attacked OWS with a barrage of lies.

The Moderator, agnosticnixie, outed you as a troll ages ago, right here on this forum for all to see. And you yourself admit that you got "shadow banned" for a while... Many users openly asked that you be banned permanently for your systematic disinformation and spamming, but for some unknown reason, you are still here.

"Thrasy... look. You have openly bragged on this very forum about being a government mole, a psyops (specializing in psychological operations) and have constantly attacked OWS with barrage of lies."

Are you serious? Where? I think the problem is a lot of people here accuse others without any evidence. I could go around saying you're a troll and spreading lies about you. I don't do that because I consider it a waste of time for everybody on the forum. You shouldn't spend your time trying to label certain users trolls. Just use the forum to share in serious discussions. Ad hominem nonsense is useless and amounts to nothing more than spam. It just means more garbage people have to weed through to get to the good posts.

"The Moderator, agnosticnixie, outed you as a troll ages ago, right here on this forum for all to see."

Yet, I exchanged private messages with her just a few days ago and she has not banned me.

" And you yourself admit that you got "shadow banned" for a while..."

I was shadow banned for a few hours when the moderators were fighting the spammers. I live in Indonesia as do some of the spammers. A ban was placed in my IP region to stop some spammers.

Jart has since fixed the issue. Look! I'm here. I'm not banned.

"Many users openly asked that you be banned permanently for your systematic disinformation and spamming, but for some unknown reason, you are still here."

What disinformation? What spamming?

If certain users want to request that others be banned, they should make those requests to the moderators. They are the ones who have the power to decide.

If I'm still here it's because the moderators and jart have decided not to ban me.

You know, we all have users we like and dislike. I could spend my time publicly stating that you're a troll and that you should be banned. I personally don't feel like you are contributing in a positive way to this forum, and I feel it would be better if you weren't here. However, that is only my personal opinion and I don't feel the need to force it upon others. I don't believe in attempting to incite certain users to attack certain other users. I don't believe in trying to mount a mob attack like you are doing. It's not productive and is wasting the time of everybody on this site.

If you have a problem with a certain user, I suggest you solve it using private messaging. Either contact the moderators or that user. The moderators will decide what to do. You shouldn't try to act like a forum judge if you're not a moderator.

FWI - Judging from our karma ratings, it would seem I'm considered a better poster than you by most people on this forum. This is not very important, but it might be worthwhile for you to reflect on this before going around the forum constantly repeating ad nauseam that such and such users are trolls.

"WARNING: On this site, I have been called a troll, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, and a government mole because I criticize certain aspects of Occupy. Please, be careful."

Just last week, our Moderator, agnosticnixie, publicly accused you of "trolling" and we all know she has seriously considered banning you once again.

You have repeteadly admitted on this forum that you regularly "deface" - that is your choice of words, not mine - posts that you don't like. "Who do you think you are?" a user once asked you. "The King of this Forum?"

Thrasy, even though we are all fed up with your pedantic "logical fallacies", you are NOT a stupid man and you have proven that you CAN make valid contributions, such as your recent comments on health care in Canada.

So why not put your God-given talents to good use and help instead of hinder us in this Sacred Struggle to take back our country? Far from "mounting a mob attack against you', I am offering you a way of redeeming yourself.

I understand that the historical Thrasymaque of Ancient Greece actually destroyed a democracy and replaced it with an oligarchy (Wikipedia). But you are the new Thrasymaque and this is a brand new Year... so why not do the exact opposite of the ancient Thrasy and be on the right side of history?

Again, I don't see the point in wasting forum space with personal attacks on other users. If you feel that I'm trolling report me to the moderators and they will decide if I should be banned. Use your private message option. Do you want to be the forum's superhero by publicly outing who you decide are "trolls"? Why? Is it to stroke your ego? A real forum superhero uses the private message option because it doesn't waste forum space and still gets the job done of reporting the "trolls".

FWI - Saying that people have called me a government psyops is not the same as saying that I am a government psyops. Learn to read, and stop wasting your time with conspiracy theories. You should read serious stuff. Conspiracy theories can destroy your mind. They are very unhealthy.

"Just last week, our Moderator, agnosticnixie, PUBLICLY accused you of "trolling" and we all know she has seriously considered banning you once again."

I'm not Superman or Batman - far too old for flying... LOL I'm just an average OWS supporter who happens to care A LOT about this country. Not like you, Thrasy. You may care about your own country - Canada - but you have publicly stated on this forum that you don't care what happens to America because it's not your country and you have in fact not set foot here in the last ten years.

If you cared about OWS and your country, you would follow my advice and not use up precious forum space to publicly attack other users using mob tactics. You would simply report trolling behavior by sending private messages to the moderators. There are a lot of people here wasting everybody's time calling each other trolls post after post. You shouldn't flood the forum with such ad hominem.

Your assumption that I don't care about America is not only wrong, it's extremely naive. Why in the world would I spend day in and day out on this forum if I didn't care about OWS and America. Check your bearings, you're way off course.

Trashy, there's something you're simply not getting or that you conveniently choose not to get. It is non only a right but a duty for everyone on this forum to challenge trolling every time it becomes obvious:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

I can't count the number of times that I've flagged a rabid antisemitic TROLL - or an Islamophobic troll or what have you. The use of capital letters catches the attention of the Mods and I've noticed that those posts tend to disappear more quickly. Flaffing a troll is not an "ad hominem" attack, it is WORKING TO PROTECT THIS FORUM AND ITS CRUCIAL WORK.

As for your sentiments vis-a-vis America, I can only repeat what I said earlier because it is factual: "You may care about your own country - Canada - but you have publicly stated on this forum that YOU DON'T CARE what happens to America because it's not your country and you haven't even set foot here in the last ten years."

Were you lying when you wrote that or are you lying now in your denial of your own words? Could it be that we are in the presence of a "logical fallacy" ??? Heaven forbid! :o)

You've wasted so much time and forum space that I have run out of replies. In response to your post below, I deface postings that are against the forum rules. These are all postings by spammers and conspiracy theorists. It saves forum space because it quickly renders the posts useless and they quickly sink at the bottom of the pile as a result. If I did not deface them, conspiracy theorists would waste everyone's time repeating their nonsensical theories over and over again. I do this to help the forum.

If you don't like the forum's rule #2 you should complain to the moderators via private messaging. If they remove this rule, I will stop defacing the posts of conspiracy theorists and spammers.

"Thrasy, please count the number of spaces that are occupied by the word "TROLL".

Done? OK. Now please COUNT the number of spaces that YOU use up when you "deface" - to use your own words - a post you dislike. Most often you place in lieu of real comments 10 to 20 copies of the SAME PICTURE, which has no bearing whatsoever with the topic of the post. You seem to favor rabbits, although you have also been accused by some users of posting pictures of penises and child porn... And you have the gumption to accuse others of "flooding the forum"???

Look, Thrasy, I'm sorry that I had to put the spotlight on all of this and, believe me, I did it "sans plaisir"... I do NOT despise you, far from it, nor do I have a personal vendetta against you. In fact, earlier today I commended you for your valuable thoughts about health care on another thread.

You are not a stupid man, far from it! Please use your God-given talents to help your brothers and sisters. There is such great need in our world and you would derive great personal satisfaction from it.

I never said it wasn't the role of forum users to help the moderators squash trolls. I agree we can all help in this effort. What I said was that you should send private messages to moderators to report trolling and provide them with the permalinks to the comments you feel are trollish instead of repeatedly posting this information in public comments.

Repeating that a certain user is a troll over and over again doesn't help anybody, it only floods the forum. This type of mob attack is thus a form of spam. It throws postings and discussions off track and wastes everybody's time. It's also not as effective as contacting the moderators directly via private messages since they have to read the forum to take notice of your complaints.

Use the comments and posts in the forum to discuss serious issues, and use private messaging to report trolls. Trust me, this is the best thing you can do to help this forum keep discussions on track.

Thrasy, please count the number of spaces that are occupied by the word "TROLL".

Done? OK. Now please COUNT the number of spaces that YOU use up when you "deface" - to use your own words - a post you dislike. Most often you place in lieu of real comments 10 to 20 copies of the SAME PICTURE, which has no bearing whatsoever with the topic of the post. You seem to favor rabbits, although you have also been accused by some users of posting pictures of penises and child porn... And you have the gumption to accuse others of "flooding the forum"???

Look, Thrasy, I'm sorry that I had to put the spotlight on all of this and, believe me, I did it "sans plaisir"... I do NOT despise you, far from it, nor do I have a personal vendetta against you. In fact, earlier today I commended you for your valuable thoughts about health care on another thread.

You are not a stupid man, far from it! Please use your God-given talents to help your brothers and sisters. There is such great need in our world and you would derive great personal satisfaction from it.

From the double post below it's clear that you are spamming and therefor wasting everyone's time. I already replied and explained that you should contact the moderators if you think a certain poster is trolling, or if you would like the forum rules to be changed. Do this if you want to help, instead of flooding this forum with your repetitious attacks that lead to nowhere.

I baited him to my site last month, logged his info. He is operating from Indonesia. I doubt he is from Canada. Probably paid to be here, since Indonesia has a pay rate similar to China it would be cheap as hell to hire trolls from there.

Thrasy claims to be a French-Canadian of Acadian descent, and I can believe that, as his English is sometimes a tad wobbly. Some of us were VERY amused to learn from one of his comments that he "comes to this forum to perfect his English". LOL I think I'll start a collection to send him to Berlitz!

He may well be operating from Jakarta as he often claims, but he is definitely NOT an American citizen. In fact, he has publicly stated on this forum that HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO AMERICA because it's not his country and he has in fact not set foot here in the last ten years. That particular claim, I certainly can believe!!!

Trashy is most definitely paid and is known to threaten people PUBLICLY, right here on this forum, in these exact terms:

"WARNING: On this site, I have been called a troll, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, and a government mole because I criticize certain aspects of Occupy. Please, be careful."

Threats of ANY KIND are AGAINST moderating policies. No wonder this guy has been banned and faces more bans in the future.

For Gods sake enough already! He never said anything like that! He said he cares about this country. Which makes sense because what happens here affects the rest of the world. He has never been banned. That's ridiculous. He has had the same user name for months. You make so many ridiculous claims you look unbelievably foolish! Stop the accusations. Find something better to do. Do something productive. Stop behaving like an effing moron! I'm totally sick of it. Move on!

READ, April : Thrasy himself wrote that he doesn't care what happens to America and hasn't set foot here in ten years. AND Thrasy himself writes that he got banned. AND Thrasy himself has written on this forum that he has SEVERAL other usernamees, such as "Glaucon", "Adeimantus", etc., etc., etc.

You know what they say: "Denial is not just a river in Egypt..." GOOD DAY, April.

You should apply to be a moderator instead of posting public attacks against users you don't like. That way you would have the power to zap them out of existence without the need to waste precious forum space repeating your attacks ad nauseam.

If you wish to challenge or have more information concerning some of their decisions, I suggest you ask them for clarifications via private messaging. This assures your concerns will be read by the moderators, and it won't waste forum space.

I was also my original NewEnglandPatriot acct is unable to post, but can still send message. This one is NewEngiandPatriot (lowercase i instead of L) looks the same, I was using it to flag the spam. I don't know what happened it is a SHADOW ban, which I think is temporary.

I think MD got it because of the several page spans of info used on posts and /or large copy paste responses, even though he wasn't spamming like the free tv jerks.

I thought David Graeber was the first organizer of the protest. Wasn't it him who proposed the idea of a leaderless protest which would not make demands? Do you know him personally? He seems like a great guy. I read many of his essays in the anarchist library.

I honestly never got to know the guy. As far as I know, his involvement really started with the formation of the nycga but he's also been trying to organize an uprising similar to ows for a while. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter who was first because he's a much better organizer and thinker than I could ever hope to be. My bragging rights only extend as far as being the first person to seriously hop on board after Adbusters published the article.

The main contribution our affinity group made was in giving the movement a website, an appearance of legitimacy, a reliable source of information, an easily accessible phone number / email address to get involved, and a whole lot of viral promotion so people like Graeber would have an easier time being the ones to actually make it happen.

Thrasymaque sends this flattering message to jart, the founder and owner of this forum:

"It's really cool that you're at the forefront of such an important protest. That's a wonderful experience, and I'm sure it's going to pay off in many ways. Keep up the good work."

What hypocrisy, Thrasymaque/Glaucon/Adeimantus!

The legit users of this forums ALL know that you have done your utmost to vilify OWS and destroy this forum.

We ALL know that the Moderator, agnosticnixie, has accused you publicly of "TROLLING" - those are her ownwords - and that she has in fact BANNED you before - a fact that you admit.

We ALL know that you also admit that when you dislike a post, instead of reporting it to the Mod Team, you take it upon yourself to "deface" it - your own words - by spamming 10 to 20 huge, identical pictures that have nothing to do with the topic of the post.

I don't see the problem. Lots of people are here thanking jart for her work. Why shouldn't Thras? No one person can destroy this forum. That is a ridiculous.

Because he posted pictures? He was not defacing anything. There is no rule against posting pictures. What you see as defacing, I see as expression. Many many people here express themselves using extremely rude language. I don't like it, and I think it is far worse than pictures. I find it pretty obnoxious, all of the disgusting name calling. But thats my opinion. And there is no rule against bad language. So even though I don't like it, as a form of expression, I accept it, because people have a right to express themselves that way. Same thing with pictures.

He vilifies OWS? He has been critical of the movement. Lots of people here are critical of the movement. If you took away all the people who are critical of the movement, it wouldn't even be a movement. There would hardly be anyone left. If we want a big movement, we are going to have to accept differences as well as criticism.

Criticism of the movement is a way to make it better. I don't see it as trying to destroy the movement. I think we should all be critical and voice our opinions about the movement. That is part of our job since this is a leaderless movement with no direction. Thats part of what will help it evolve. And hopefully get bigger and better. I think that is the right thing to do to support the movement.

Thras feels strongly about certain things, expresses himself and voices his criticism. We are all confrontational about things we feel strongly about. We just have different opinions and different things we feel strongly about.

We really have to try to accept each others differences. If we can't work together, somewhat cooperatively, to solve the relatively small problems on this forum, or at least agree to disagree - and move on - how can we ever hope to solve bigger problems.

From a personal point of view, I'd just request that you never AGAIN spam pornographic imagery !!!

Re. "Conspiracy Theory" (as judged by no less a personage than 'You') you go right ahead and "report ... to the moderators already" but unless you've got 'Mod privileges' you've No Right Whatsoever to harass and spam posts or posters but DO Draw Attention and Report as you see fit !!

Finally, if you wish to peer behind sloppy terms like "Conspiracy Theory" go and research (it'll take 5 minutes at most !!) The 2008 (Pre Banking "Collapse") Bilderberg Attendees List and see if you can come up with a different - more amenable, term !

Finally, re. The Above, I'll simply quote Adam Smith : "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices…. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies, much less to render them necessary." !!

Learn more about jart and the other founders of OWS by reading the Nov. 28 article in "The New Yorker', available online for free. It's the most detailed account of the creation of OWS that I've read thus far and clearly shows that OWS is far from "leaderless"... Everyone on this forum should make a point of reading that landmark article by Mattathias Schwartz.

I'm a career revolutionary, I haven't had a boss in a long time. But thank you for being so considerate <3 Many of the organizers who've been heavily involved in this movement are undergoing a collective case of burnout. I myself am (hopefully) just starting to recover, but we've all been through a lot. We organized a protest to fuck with wall street and watched it explode into probably the fastest growing resistance movement in history. There were extended periods of time during the first few months after Sept 17th that I slept on average two hours a night, one guy I knew told me that he'd never seen me sleep even though he'd encountered me on numerous occasions throughout many separate hours of the day. And then we watched so much of it crumble when the evictions started to happen. The nyc occupation went away, but for our group at least, all the responsibilities we'd gained continued to remain. We simply weren't prepared for any of it.

No boss? Then what are you waiting for. Plan a nice vacation! Even career revolutionaries get to take a vacation don't they?!

As you can see, so many people here appreciate your hard work. You need to take care of yourself. Isn't there a way you can find to offload some of your responsibilities for a while. You need a backup revolutionary!

Nobody was prepared for any of this. Many of the organizers thought the occupation wouldn't even be allowed to go on for more than a few days...

Burnout is a BIG problem for activists. I've seen it destroy many good people and had emailed Patrick about it months ago. Without sleep you can't think straight... or even trans. :) Everybody needs vacations. Even M L King would sometimes admit himself to a hospital for a few days just to get away from it all!

Patrick and I have worked together for a while, and during the first month he was probably twice as manic as I was! He's pretty burnt out too, but we've all been taking care of each other and are finally starting to pull through. I can't tell you how excited we are for Spring :)