I convinced that you will refute all of my claims, no matter how much "evidence" I give you. It's a game you are playing with me. I see through it. If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

"evidence" is right.

Logged

"As a God fearing Christian, you should never ever date an Atheist. One night alone with an atheist is enough for you to lose your faith and to be converted into one of the spiritually dead."

I convinced that you will refute all of my claims, no matter how much "evidence" I give you. It's a game you are playing with me. I see through it. If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

"evidence" is right.

ok speak up, what evidence do you need?

Logged

Passage 2 Corinthians 10:4:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

As I have said before the best evidence is you. Who created you? Who created them?

My parents created me 45 years ago. Their parents created them around 65 years ago.

I know exactly where you're going with this. That everything has a cause. You are going to say that "God" is the "first cause". There's only one problem with this. If everything has a cause, then what caused God?

You will then answer that nothing caused God, he always was. The problem is that you have to rework the "first cause" argument to account for God not having a cause. This is called an ad hoc argument. What is does is make your argument unfalsifiable, and therefore, logically fallacious.

Will will refute any claims that are not logically valid and comply with the most basic standards of facts, evidence, and objectivity. The god claim is irrelevant, it is just one of many claims.

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no matter how much "evidence" I give you.

You havn't provided us 'evidence', nor even explanation of what constitutes 'evidence'.

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It's a game you are playing with me. I see through it.

Asking you to be responsible for your claim is not a game. I would do it for everyone, for any claim, and even for myself. I fully admit to where I believe things I have no evidence for, I do not need to lie about that or pretend to know what I cannot know.

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If you are not playing, tell me what kind of evidence do you need?

Depends upon the context of the claim itself. You see, you're operating from a basis of claiming a 'supernatural' thing. By its very definition, supernatural, cannot have 'evidence' for it since its definition places it outside of any empirical evidence in the first place. God is just one of many ridiculous things claimed that people have no evidence for in the first place nor can describe how evidence would exist for it.

If a god does exist, then that god is a 'natural' as opposed to 'supernatural' entity. However, that doesn't account for it being invisible or intangible in every way possible again making it impossible to know if its there.

Which brings us to the obvious problem: If the nature of a thing makes it impossible for you to know it exists then in what context would you ever claim to know its there?

Answer: You wouldn't, unless you are delusional or lying.

The only way out of this is to admit the obvious, that you "truth" don't actually know anything you claim as being truth nor do you have any logical manner to assign it as 'valid'. You can still logically 'believe' in the possibility of a god, but never can you claim to 'know' as in a 'truth claim' that such a thing is actually there. The deeper problem is that in not knowing, you cannot assign identify, definition, or concepts. That makes religion, those belief systems that assign identification pointless. ( christianity is a religion moron ). A fundamentalist like yourself is so deluded into the literalism of his/her belief, that you cannot have it any other way.

You are too arrogant and you are too dishonest to admit that you do not actually know.

Its no problem for me I admit to not knowing happily.

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

As I have said before the best evidence is you. Who created you? Who created them?

My parents created me 45 years ago. Their parents created them around 65 years ago.

I know exactly where you're going with this. That everything has a cause. You are going to say that "God" is the "first cause". There's only one problem with this. If everything has a cause, then what caused God?

You will then answer that nothing caused God, he always was. The problem is that you have to rework the "first cause" argument to account for God not having a cause. This is called an ad hoc argument. What is does is make your argument unfalsifiable, and therefore, logically fallacious.

There is a simple answer, but it requires deep thought. It is a spiritual answer to a spiritual question. the answer is:GOD IS

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Passage 2 Corinthians 10:4:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

There is a song we used to sing in Sunday School. I know because the Bible tells me so. That is where I stand today. The Bible has all the evidence needed. I have had personal experiences with God. He has answered prayer in such a way that only he can answer. My prayer is for you to know him as I do. I feel that one day you will. God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you.

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Passage 2 Corinthians 10:4:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

There is a song we used to sing in Sunday School. I know because the Bible tells me so.

That is circular, it actually removes your ability to know. It promotes stupidity, ignorance, anti-education, anti-knowledge, and anti-learning. It is everything I just described in my post about you and to you, you're simply reinforcing what I just stated because you no real response to what I'm pointing out.

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That is where I stand today. The Bible has all the evidence needed.

How is it evidence? Evidence of what? How do you know any of it to be true?

Again, you don't actually know, you cannot even answer your questions, you don't even try, and you're too stupid/dishonest/arrogant to admit to it. So why should we take you seriously about any claim?

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I have had personal experiences with God.

How do you know? Experience of what? How do you know any of it to be true?

You lack any ability to not just answer that question, you can no more claim it to be true for others or even yourself.

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He has answered prayer in such a way that only he can answer.

Tautological, again you cannot actually know what you claim and you don't even bother to demonstrate how you do know.

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My prayer is for you to know him as I do.

I've already been a christian once, I realized that much of christianity ( or any religion ) is based upon emotional dependencies and propagates itself like a delusion. I then discovered individuals like you, who were arrogant and dishonest about the entirety of the religion itself. Your anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and anti-knowledge approach just helps to destroy rather then create. You capitalize upon the innocence of children, preying upon them and placing them in a situation where they will grow up to realize they are being lied to. This behavior in itself has done irreversible damage to any number of authoritarian religious literalist beliefs by driving each new generation farther and farther away.

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I feel that one day you will. God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you.

Again, why should we take you seriously about any concept or claim you cannot validate?

Logged

"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

There is a song we used to sing in Sunday School. I know because the Bible tells me so. That is where I stand today. The Bible has all the evidence needed. I have had personal experiences with God. He has answered prayer in such a way that only he can answer. My prayer is for you to know him as I do. I feel that one day you will. God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you.

Preaching.

Logged

So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. --Bertrand Russell

That is circular, it actually removes your ability to know. It promotes stupidity, ignorance, anti-education, anti-knowledge, and anti-learning. It is everything I just described in my post about you and to you, you're simply reinforcing what I just stated because you no real response to what I'm pointing out.

How is it evidence? Evidence of what? How do you know any of it to be true?

Again, you don't actually know, you cannot even answer your questions, you don't even try, and you're too stupid/dishonest/arrogant to admit to it. So why should we take you seriously about any claim?

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I have had personal experiences with God.

How do you know? Experience of what? How do you know any of it to be true?

You lack any ability to not just answer that question, you can no more claim it to be true for others or even yourself.

Tautological, again you cannot actually know what you claim and you don't even bother to demonstrate how you do know.

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My prayer is for you to know him as I do.

I've already been a christian once, I realized that much of christianity ( or any religion ) is based upon emotional dependencies and propagates itself like a delusion. I then discovered individuals like you, who were arrogant and dishonest about the entirety of the religion itself. Your anti-intellectualism, anti-education, and anti-knowledge approach just helps to destroy rather then create. You capitalize upon the innocence of children, preying upon them and placing them in a situation where they will grow up to realize they are being lied to. This behavior in itself has done irreversible damage to any number of authoritarian religious literalist beliefs by driving each new generation farther and farther away.

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I feel that one day you will. God loves you and he is patiently waiting for you.

Again, why should we take you seriously about any concept or claim you cannot validate?

So calling me names proves something? Let me ask you something. How do you know it's not true? Prove there is no God.

The Bible is evidence of the existence of God and of Jesus. It is packed with spiritual principles for successful living (called wisdom)

I will give you evidence of one experience I had with God. I have had many, but this one is special. I know you won't believe me, but just imagine if it is. Because it is absolutely the truth. One day when I was down, I was having a lot of trouble in my life, my marriage was in trouble (saved by God by the way), my business had failed and my finances were in shambles. On my way to church I prayed and asked God to let me hear from Him today. I said even if it's just the cry of a baby, just let me know it's you. Well the preacher got up (the preacher did not know any of my personal situation) and said I am going to preach, but first I have a message for "Truth" (she used my real name) and she gave me a word from the Lord that spoke to my exact situation. Things she said were true, and things we foretold came true. Now only God can do that. I was really down that day, but he sent me a special word. This is evidence to me.

I will admit there are lots of emotions in religion, some more than others. But I am not talking about religion. I am talking about Christianity, a personal relationship with God. When you were a Christian, did you have a personal relationship with God. Did he reveal himself to you. If no, I would venture to say that maybe you were religious, but not a Christian. Did you believe that Jesus was the son God and that he was raised from the dead and is seated at God's right hand. If you answered yes to those questions, then I would be interested in exploring more of the topic with you. Otherwise, I would say you were in fact not a Christian. (not judging, just stating fact)

What way can I validate my "claim" as you put it? I have told you that you were evidence, the Bible is evidence, and now I have shared my personal testimony with you. What else do you need? Tell me and I will do it.

Logged

Passage 2 Corinthians 10:4:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

So calling me names proves something? Let me ask you something. How do you know it's not true? Prove there is no God.

Don't have too.

I do not know what a god is, do not know where it is, do not know if its even there, and dont even know how to define it, and all I can say is I don't believe in one because I have no reason too.

I KNOW your statements are not true, because you provide nothing that would validate them as true. You provide nothing that demands to be believed, no evidence that correlates with the claim being made, no logic that would reach the conclusion you make, and you're so arrogant/dishonest with the people asking you these questions that there really is no need to even entertain you as being serious. You have done everything within your means to obfuscate, dismiss, and literally treat as dirt anyone that bothered to ask you questions when they first took you seriously.

Not to mention that if taken literally, the entirety of your bible is not true as I've already pointed out and you refuse to even engage me on that subject.

Logged

"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

The Bible is evidence of the existence of God and of Jesus. It is packed with spiritual principles for successful living (called wisdom)

It is a book that is a collection of other books, those books have words.

Citing a book that has words in it as 'evidence' isn't evidence, it doesn't explain anything about what you 'claim' and you don't even try to explain anything when you cite it. Why should I take it for anything more then a book with words in it? How do you know any of it to be true?

Why should I take you seriously for citing something you REFUSE to explain?

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

I will give you evidence of one experience I had with God. I have had many, but this one is special. I know you won't believe me, but just imagine if it is.

Nothing you described logically allows someone to personally claim it as 'absolute' truth. As I've pointed out and others have pointed out countless times, the reason we don't believe it is because there is something wrong with the logic behind the claim. Personal experiences do not pertain to 'evidence' for other people, more importantly logically you cannot demonstrate a method of logical conclusion of how you came to know that what happened was due to a supernatural being.

You simply conclude that it does using circular logic, which removes your ability to know what is true.

Do you even see our text when we point this out? Are you even capable of reading it? Do you not know what I mean by circular fallacy? Do you know what logic is? Is your english poor?

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But I am not talking about religion. I am talking about Christianity, a personal relationship with God.

Religion=Christianity, unless you provide a reason to seperate the two.

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When you were a Christian, did you have a personal relationship with God.

You have to explain further. How?

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Did he reveal himself to you.

You have to explain further. How?

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If no, I would venture to say that maybe you were religious, but not a Christian.

There is no special exemption to assign to being religious, christianity is a religion. If you claim to be a christian then you are subscribing to a religious belief. You are part of a religion. You are religious.

If not then describe a personal exception, do simply make a baseless unsupported assertion.

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Did you believe that Jesus was the son God and that he was raised from the dead and is seated at God's right hand.

Yep

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If you answered yes to those questions, then I would be interested in exploring more of the topic with you. Otherwise, I would say you were in fact not a Christian. (not judging, just stating fact)

That is not the definition of fact. Since the only thing you know about me is that I claimed to be a christian and to believe in christianity, then you have to accept that as fact.

You cannot conclude that I wasn't a christian, based on something you never explain and you're making ANOTHER logical fallacy by making a case for special pleading.

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What way can I validate my "claim" as you put it?

I'm not sure, you don't cite any evidence that would actually allow you to reach your conclusion. You dont even attempt to explain your 'evidence', nor even explain how it can be evidence of what you're claiming.

Its not my fault that your claim lacks validation. Thats your fault.

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I have told you that you were evidence,

You've never explained how its evidence, you've never explained how it correlates with your conclusions. You know, those hundreds of questions you've been ignoring. Its not like you can't see them, they've been asked of you countless times. It only begs the question of why you refuse to answer them.

Which leads us to the obvious; you are dishonest, arrogant, and potentially delusional.

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the Bible is evidence,

You've never explained how its evidence, you've never explained how it correlates with your conclusions. You know, those hundreds of questions you've been ignoring. Its not like you can't see them, they've been asked of you countless times. It only begs the question of why you refuse to answer them.

Which leads us to the obvious; you are dishonest, arrogant, and potentially delusional.

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and now I have shared my personal testimony with you. What else do you need? Tell me and I will do it.

I need evidence that actually fits the definition of 'evidence' for the claim being made.

I need 'proof' that actually fits the definition of 'proof' for hte claim being made.

I need 'logic' to explain how evidence/proof help you come to the conclusion being made.

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

As I have said before the best evidence is you. Who created you? Who created them?

To the first question: my parents. To the second: their parents. But to the underlying question, what makes you think that there has to be a nice, neat, simple answer? Simplistic answers are for simple people. Are you simple?

Nothing you described logically allows someone to personally claim it as 'absolute' truth. As I've pointed out and others have pointed out countless times, the reason we don't believe it is because there is something wrong with the logic behind the claim. Personal experiences do not pertain to 'evidence' for other people, more importantly logically you cannot demonstrate a method of logical conclusion of how you came to know that what happened was due to a supernatural being.

You have to explain further. How?

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Did he reveal himself to you.

You have to explain further. How?

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If no, I would venture to say that maybe you were religious, but not a Christian.

If not then describe a personal exception, do simply make a baseless unsupported assertion.

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Did you believe that Jesus was the son God and that he was raised from the dead and is seated at God's right hand.

Yep

That is not the definition of fact. Since the only thing you know about me is that I claimed to be a christian and to believe in christianity, then you have to accept that as fact.

You cannot conclude that I wasn't a christian, based on something you never explain and you're making ANOTHER logical fallacy by making a case for special pleading.

I'm not sure, you don't cite any evidence that would actually allow you to reach your conclusion. You dont even attempt to explain your 'evidence', nor even explain how it can be evidence of what you're claiming.

Its not my fault that your claim lacks validation. Thats your fault.

The reason you can't except the evidence is that Christianity is that it requires faith. You need faith more than "evidence"

The Lord revealed to me why you keep asking for evidence, even though I give it. O ye of little faith.

Passage James 2:18:

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Passage 2 Corinthians 13:5:

5 Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you[a]; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith.

Passage Hebrews 11:1: 1 Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.

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Passage 2 Corinthians 10:4:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

Evidence? I don't think so. The Bible is simply too absurd to take seriously. Snakes and asses and shrubbery don't talk, and people do not come back from the dead.

I will say this again: You cannot use something to prove itself. You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible. If that sort of pseudo-logic actually worked, one could prove anything at all just by reading a line out of a book. You must have a second, disinterested source to support your claims. Emphasis on 'disinterested'... Not someone with a bias towards what you're trying to prove.