If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

What would you do?

As far as I can see we're going to hang around .500 all year. some winning streaks and some losing. Sometimes you see glimpses of what the pacers could be and sometimes all you see is clanking on the rim.

If we stay .500 this year, make the playoffs, and lose in the first round what would you want to see done.

1.leave the roster as is, with minor tweaking
2.make a major trade for a superstar which would cost us young talent and draft picks.
3.blow up the team dump saleries, and try to compile draft picks, with trying to keep some of the young talent to start to build around(granger williams, etc) ala. Portland

Re: What would you do?

Idea 1 is out of the question for me. This team as structured will go nowhere in the long run.

Option 2 while sounding good is very very very hard to do, in fact I don't believe we have the tools to do that.

Option 3 while popular is also a huge huge crapshoot. For every Portland you have an Atlanta (who while doing very well this year has sucked for almost a decade).

Getting a combination of young players and good veterans to me makes the most sense.

Other than whatever position we are going to play Granger at, either the three or four, I feel that we could use an upgrade at every position.

My first preferance would be to get a new point guard. But barring that I want a bruiser up front.

Roaming Gnome said the name Paul Millsap to me after the game and my mouth started to water. We don't have anything they would want but other than Granger I would trade anyone else on the team to get him.

But I think honestly small moves is the way we are going to have to go and pray we catch a break in the draft.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: What would you do?

#3

The one thing Bird has proven he can do is draft well. That's really all it takes to rebuild, provided you can keep your talent from bolting when their rookie contracts are up. We've already got good role players, now we need a legit franchise player to replace the washed up J.O.; a Batman to Granger's Robin.

As for the Hawks rebuilding process, least ye forget they actually tried option #4 and failed miserably which set the team back 2-3 seasons. Glenn Robinson and Shareef Abdur-Rahim, anyone? Robinson was acquired for their 2003 pick, which ended up being T.J. Ford. And of course they acquired Shareef by giving up their 2002 1st, which is All-Star Pau Gasol. Ouch. Had they stuck to a true rebuilding instead of going for the "quick fix", they likely would've been much better off.

Re: What would you do?

#3 has partially happened. The "team" no longer exists. Hmmm. Hope the cold water 's not too much of a shock.

We now have a few overpaid semi-good players and a few young, somewhat promising players. The talent level is good enough to keep us out of the cellar, but not good enough to make the playoffs easily.

So what should we do?

One option is to ride the contracts out for a few years and try to dump salary whereever possible...while hanging onto the young talent we have. Then, we should try to pick up a free agent or two....as well as make the best picks we can. I suspect that's the brilliant plan by TPTB. Fairly boring, but represents the least risk. We might turn out to be a decent team and get back in the playoffs with some good moves.

The other option is to tank completely. Let Granger, Williams, etc. walk while hanging onto JO, Murphy and the other bad contracts. Once JO walks and we have no talent at all, we take our place at the bottom of the league. That's not palatable from some people, and I'm not sure I want to see it either. However, many teams that have contended recently or are doing well now used to be terrible: Miami, Boston, Atlanta, Toronto, Portland etc. Might be a crapshoot, but I consider it better odds than a more conservative approach if you want to be a contender...because you need to get a true superstar to build around in most instances...and teams don't hand those out...you need to pick high in the draft...

Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: What would you do?

#3 has partially happened. The "team" no longer exists. Hmmm. Hope the cold water 's not too much of a shock.

We now have a few overpaid semi-good players and a few young, somewhat promising players. The talent level is good enough to keep us out of the cellar, but not good enough to make the playoffs easily.

So what should we do?

One option is to ride the contracts out for a few years and try to dump salary whereever possible...while hanging onto the young talent we have. Then, we should try to pick up a free agent or two....as well as make the best picks we can. I suspect that's the brilliant plan by TPTB. Fairly boring, but represents the least risk. We might turn out to be a decent team and get back in the playoffs with some good moves.

The other option is to tank completely. Let Granger, Williams, etc. walk while hanging onto JO, Murphy and the other bad contracts. Once JO walks and we have no talent at all, we take our place at the bottom of the league. That's not palatable from some people, and I'm not sure I want to see it either. However, many teams that have contended recently or are doing well now used to be terrible: Miami, Boston, Atlanta, Toronto, Portland etc. Might be a crapshoot, but I consider it better odds than a more conservative approach if you want to be a contender...because you need to get a true superstar to build around in most instances...and teams don't hand those out...you need to pick high in the draft...

i think we as Pacer fans would be outraged if we truly went through with this. while it may look and sound good on paper, truthfully even with high draft picks it could be years before we actually managed to do anything.

i think by far our best bet is to ride it out and stick to our guns. JO will come around (if his knee can cooperate) and if he doesn't, well he's gone in 2 years and we're in far better shape than we would be if we attempted to blow up the team.

Re: What would you do?

i think we as Pacer fans would be outraged if we truly went through with this. while it may look and sound good on paper, truthfully even with high draft picks it could be years before we actually managed to do anything.

i think by far our best bet is to ride it out and stick to our guns. JO will come around (if his knee can cooperate) and if he doesn't, well he's gone in 2 years and we're in far better shape than we would be if we attempted to blow up the team.

sooooo i guess im for option #1

I certainly respect your opinion, but I think *you* as a Pacer fan would be outraged, but not *we* as Pacer fans. It's hard to say how many people would be for or against blowing up the current team...but it's not 100% either way.

As for #1, it will take a lot of minor tweaks to rise above the current level of mediocrity. Maybe after 5 more below .500 seasons with the addition of a Kareem Rush here and a Travis Diener there, we have a shot at getting in the playoffs. But even that will take good moves by management...which have been hit and miss at best.

As for contending, you can forget about it for years. Nothing in life is certain except death, taxes and that the Pacers will never again contend with JO in a Pacer uni. Granger isn't leading this team anywhere. Neither is Dunleavy. They are both good complimentary players, but fall quite short of being #1 options. The salary situation is a disaster for the next 3 years and that is likely to make resigning Foster impossible, and Granger difficult. An entirely new group will need to come in before we contend again, and that might be 10 or more years away. IMO, it will be about the time Danny Granger starts getting grey hair.

BTW, as for JO, it's best to assume he's done. We should attempt to unload his salary somehow so we can at least retain the talent we do have. Something is going to hit the fan in a year or two. Irresistable force v immovable object. This is particularly true if JO is not tradeable due to his knee. I cannot over emphasize how bad it is to this franchise's future due to JO's knee. It puts us in a position where we may be forced to sacrifice even more talent while watching him sit the rest of his contract...then walk.

So, in the end, it's likely we will be forced to go with #3 particularly if JO does not make a miraculous recovery.

Re: What would you do?

^^ fair enough, i shouldn't have categorized us all into the same category. but you mark my words, we will make the playoffs this year, JO will come back this year (and be effective) , AND
we'll me noticeably better next year w/o any major changes except our incoming 1st rounder

Re: What would you do?

My choice would be: stop living in denial, stop standing around waiting for miracles to happen, admit the team will never go anywhere, and start over with Granger, Shawne, possibly Ike, draft picks, and hopefully cap-space. Get rid of J.O. and Tinsley and the bad vibes they've left on the team, and let's move on instead of going through the same pointless crap week after week, month after month, year after year.

Re: What would you do?

As a further example of the evil nature of this season, I am agreeing with Peck.

We don't have anywhere near the foundation to take advantage of a single superstar player, especially since we'd be giving away most of it in any trade. You can't tweak a black hole. Blowing up the team depends on luck (getting the #1 pick, getting a pick who won't be injured/stupid, having that pick fit the pieces already assembled).

The teams of the late 90's were built piece-by-piece. It took many years to get to the place where the right coach was the final ingredient and a little tweaking took care of business. Even then, there were holes that ultimately kept us from reaching the top. You have to begin by getting a team filled with solid back-up players before you can package some of them for a starter. If you are lucky you can build starters from those back-ups, but it depends on the players and coaches having the talent to do so.

We need to seriously examine:

- what kind of team we want to be
- what current players fit that and will continue to fit that for at least 5 years
- what current players will fill roles that make sense no matter what the style
- what type of players we need to go for
- who is left that should be cast aside or traded if possible.

Will TPTB do this? Who knows?

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: What would you do?

This is just a passing thought, but with the Simons reaching closer to retirement, could a Packers situation work in the NBA (the Pacers specifically)?

I don't know the specifics, but the city of Green Bay (maybe the county it's in?) owns the Packers. Indiana is just as passionate about basketball as GB is football.

The city (as in the city government) doesn't own the team.

The Packers are just a "publicly" owned company in that they are owned by a bunch of shareholders who bought stock in the team, but there is a limit to the amount of stock one person can buy. Basically, they're a corporation with no single person having majority control

They're the only franchise in American sports run that way. If I had to guess, the Simons will probably make a bigger profit selling to someone else or they might just want to hand the operations of the franchise on to their children.

Most sports team owners are in it for the thrill of owning a pro sports team. If the Simons ever wanted to sell, I'm sure there would be several groups of rich investors immediately interested in buying from them. The Packers' situation is truly unique and the way their franchise "ownership" is structured was established long ago. I doubt we'll ever see something like that in this country again.

Re: What would you do?

i think we as Pacer fans would be outraged if we truly went through with this. while it may look and sound good on paper, truthfully even with high draft picks it could be years before we actually managed to do anything.