Well as the season winds down, just wanted to wish good luck to the teams in the tourny this year. Most especially to the Woburn girls, CD and KS. You'll have some Flyer parents rooting for you the whole way through!

Off to softball season and to hoping that all 9 of our incoming freshmen actually end up at FHS for next season.

Scooter8, I will say both have had some light games but those teams seem to be in there own league which they have to play. I will give the edge to AB when comparing the outside league games, they are a lot tougher, Arl. Hingham, Braintree, coming up is SMH, Woburn. Duxbury's a good team (should be up in Div. 1 but...) they will get tested vs. Hingham and SMH in a week or so. I don't believe they've been really tested so far, why didn't they play ranked teams earlier instead of at the end of their schedule? WTPosted by wtcash

it's amazing how teams get propped up when they play nobody...AB and Duxbury have played one good team between them. when is Duxbury going to play in Div 1? The rankings for the Globe and Herald are just as bad. even a guess would be better. it proves they have no idea about girls hockey. same old picks.

winner of div 1 should play winner of div 2 the week after the final and put an end to the Duxbury media machine.

If AB played a tougher schedule they would be feared more. looking at their roster they have many young players. Coach, try to challange your players...they did fine last year. It will only help the young girls now so you can kick everyone's butt in 2 years.

you have to give SMH coach a ton of credit...he does play the toughest schedule around. He must understand that it's the only way to get better.

believe me...I'm NOT a SMH supporter...I do call a spade a spade when I see it.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : it's amazing how teams get propped up when they play nobody...AB and Duxbury have played one good team between them. when is Duxbury going to play in Div 1? The rankings for the Globe and Herald are just as bad. even a guess would be better. it proves they have no idea about girls hockey. same old picks. winner of div 1 should play winner of div 2 the week after the final and put an end to the Duxbury media machine. If AB played a tougher schedule they would be feared more. looking at their roster they have many young players. Coach, try to challange your players...they did fine last year. It will only help the young girls now so you can kick everyone's butt in 2 years. you have to give SMH coach a ton of credit...he does play the toughest schedule around. He must understand that it's the only way to get better. believe me...I'm NOT a SMH supporter...I do call a spade a spade when I see it. Posted by sleeper3

Mary's and Hingham plays the toughest schedule and no one is going to argue that. But AB's schedule is not that easy. Out of league, they took:FontbonneArlingtonHinghamMary'sWoburn

Bill and Chelms are going to the post season and Westford is good on the other side. AB's SOS is 17 combined D1 and D2 around 80 teams.

Duxbury's SOS is 4. They played out of league against:WalpoleCantonMount St Charles, RIHinghamBay View, RIMary'sBill

Falmouth is good this year as well as Barnstable

End of the day, if you play a soft schedule, you could pay for it in the post season by not being ready. Prime example Medford last season. But, if you have a tough tough schedule you may find yourself not in the post season. Example Austin Prep last season.

Goal number 1 is make the post season. So you have to balance your non league so you can A. get better and B. get some wins.

Good luck to all post season teams.

ps. I wouldn't want to be feared as a team at all. Let everyone look past us and then I would play up the no respect card and get my team all fired up. A motivated high school hockey team in the post season can go along way.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Mary's and Hingham plays the toughest schedule and no one is going to argue that. But AB's schedule is not that easy. Out of league, they took: Fontbonne Arlington Hingham Mary's Woburn Bill and Chelms are going to the post season and Westford is good on the other side. AB's SOS is 17 combined D1 and D2 around 80 teams. Duxbury's SOS is 4. They played out of league against: Walpole Canton Mount St Charles, RI Hingham Bay View, RI Mary's Bill Falmouth is good this year as well as Barnstable End of the day, if you play a soft schedule, you could pay for it in the post season by not being ready. Prime example Medford last season. But, if you have a tough tough schedule you may find yourself not in the post season. Example Austin Prep last season. Goal number 1 is make the post season. So you have to balance your non league so you can A. get better and B. get some wins. Good luck to all post season teams. ps. I wouldn't want to be feared as a team at all. Let everyone look past us and then I would play up the no respect card and get my team all fired up. A motivated high school hockey team in the post season can go along way.Posted by goodtime19

Goodtime -Always appreciate your insight; could you please put SOS of Dux (4) and AB (17) in layman's terms? I believe it stands for Strength Of Schedule but these #'s mean nothing to me; is 4 or 17 stronger and by what degree. Also, does it take into acct all games on schedule or those that have been played to date? Thx, Go Beez

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : it's amazing how teams get propped up when they play nobody...AB and Duxbury have played one good team between them. when is Duxbury going to play in Div 1? The rankings for the Globe and Herald are just as bad. even a guess would be better. it proves they have no idea about girls hockey. same old picks. winner of div 1 should play winner of div 2 the week after the final and put an end to the Duxbury media machine. If AB played a tougher schedule they would be feared more. looking at their roster they have many young players. Coach, try to challange your players...they did fine last year. It will only help the young girls now so you can kick everyone's butt in 2 years. you have to give SMH coach a ton of credit...he does play the toughest schedule around. He must understand that it's the only way to get better. believe me...I'm NOT a SMH supporter...I do call a spade a spade when I see it. Posted by sleeper3

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : it's amazing how teams get propped up when they play nobody...AB and Duxbury have played one good team between them. when is Duxbury going to play in Div 1? The rankings for the Globe and Herald are just as bad. even a guess would be better. it proves they have no idea about girls hockey. same old picks. winner of div 1 should play winner of div 2 the week after the final and put an end to the Duxbury media machine. If AB played a tougher schedule they would be feared more. looking at their roster they have many young players. Coach, try to challange your players...they did fine last year. It will only help the young girls now so you can kick everyone's butt in 2 years. you have to give SMH coach a ton of credit...he does play the toughest schedule around. He must understand that it's the only way to get better. believe me...I'm NOT a SMH supporter...I do call a spade a spade when I see it. Posted by sleeper3

Who runs that Duxbury Media Machine anyways? They are doing a heckuva job! Frank P is tops as a coach - no doubt. Keep and eye on the Dux/SM game. And, Dux/Hing. Should reveal alot, right?

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Who runs that Duxbury Media Machine anyways? They are doing a heckuva job! Frank P is tops as a coach - no doubt. Keep and eye on the Dux/SM game. And, Dux/Hing. Should reveal alot, right?Posted by Scooter8

Should reveal that Duxbury is overrated! I predict Duxbury loses both games.

This D1 / D2 just doesn't make sense to me. In the Bay State, the top 4 teams in the D2 Herget Division are better than the entire slate in the D1 Carey Division with the exception of Braintree. Seems to me there needs to be a wholesale realignment. I do like the idea of D1 v D2 single game playoff. And don't crown Duxbury till they win. With single game elimination, any team can have a bad night or get stoned by great goaltending. Posted by ghockeydad

Look back over the years though, consistently that is not that case. It just happens that a few of the Carey teams are all going through a year where they graduated a lot and didn't have a lot come in at the same time. Next year those same teams will be entirely different and back to their normal selves. Take Framingham for example - they started the season with 11 players. They have 9 freshman coming in next year (if they all come). Of those 9, 4-5 will be getting regular playing time from the start, and 2-3 will be pretty big difference makers and all will add depth to the team that they have never had.Could definately swap Brookline with at least one of the Hergerts though. They are consistently weak every year.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Goodtime - Always appreciate your insight; could you please put SOS of Dux (4) and AB (17) in layman's terms? I believe it stands for Strength Of Schedule but these #'s mean nothing to me; is 4 or 17 stronger and by what degree. Also, does it take into acct all games on schedule or those that have been played to date? Thx, Go Beez Posted by Go Beez

To answer your question, #1 is toughest schedule in the state, so Duxbury has a tougher schedule that AB. The SOS number changes as the season goes on, so my guess is it only applies to games played. My daughter's team had a top 15 toughest schedule, then played two 1 and 10 teams, and the SOS number rose into the 30's in one week.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Look back over the years though, consistently that is not that case. It just happens that a few of the Carey teams are all going through a year where they graduated a lot and didn't have a lot come in at the same time. Next year those same teams will be entirely different and back to their normal selves. Take Framingham for example - they started the season with 11 players. They have 9 freshman coming in next year (if they all come). Of those 9, 4-5 will be getting regular playing time from the start, and 2-3 will be pretty big difference makers and all will add depth to the team that they have never had.Could definately swap Brookline with at least one of the Hergerts though. They are consistently weak every year.Posted by Hockeymomsrule

MomsRule - I can only speak for the last 4 years but Dedham, Norwood, Walpole and Welleley in the Herget have consistently beat beat every team in the Carey with the exception of Braintree. Each of these towns have young teams and my prediction is that the dominance will continue at least for the next 4 years. In my opinion the Bay State should be realigned to Braintree, Dedham, Norwood, Walpole, Wellesley, and either Natick or Weymouth.

What really needs to happen is a complete revamp of D1/D2 with an eye to the towns that have established consistent programs moving to D1.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : MomsRule - I can only speak for the last 4 years but Dedham, Norwood, Walpole and Welleley in the Herget have consistently beat beat every team in the Carey with the exception of Braintree. Each of these towns have young teams and my prediction is that the dominance will continue at least for the next 4 years. In my opinion the Bay State should be realigned to Braintree, Dedham, Norwood, Walpole, Wellesley, and either Natick or Weymouth. What really needs to happen is a complete revamp of D1/D2 with an eye to the towns that have established consistent programs moving to D1. Posted by ghockeydad

Its always been that way in BCS Herget has been better over the years, Mom I know you are amped up about next year in coming freshmen but they will be still freshmen. Until they straighten out whats going on with those coaches the kids will get to HS and level off. This game is skating and passing Fram. can not continue on this path. They have athletes but no hockey sense and they are not being taught the correct way of playing. They have a long list of players that came to the school from club programs and never got any better than their freshman year, Davis, Desimone, Brown, Manzella (best hands in league) Wilder, Agostinelli, Curran, Smith the big defensemen. Sorry these girls were great youth players that leveled off in HS because of the lack of coaching. Carey is weak division Framingham will make playoffs and coaching will be patted on back. Same every year (except this year) I feel bad for underclassman and younger.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : MomsRule - I can only speak for the last 4 years but Dedham, Norwood, Walpole and Welleley in the Herget have consistently beat beat every team in the Carey with the exception of Braintree. Each of these towns have young teams and my prediction is that the dominance will continue at least for the next 4 years. In my opinion the Bay State should be realigned to Braintree, Dedham, Norwood, Walpole, Wellesley, and either Natick or Weymouth. What really needs to happen is a complete revamp of D1/D2 with an eye to the towns that have established consistent programs moving to D1. Posted by ghockeydad

The only 3 losses Framingham had 2 years ago were 2 to Braintree and 1 to Walpole. Last year they had more losses, but played a tougher schedule & were still competitive even through multiple injuries and still made tourny. So where's this history of those Hergert teams beating up on them? Unless I've completely lost my mind I'm fairly certain that the "history" of the Hergert teams beating up on Framingham is all of 2 seasons old, including the current one.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : The only 3 losses Framingham had 2 years ago were 2 to Braintree and 1 to Walpole. Last year they had more losses, but played a tougher schedule & were still competitive even through multiple injuries and still made tourny. So where's this history of those Hergert teams beating up on them? Unless I've completely lost my mind I'm fairly certain that the "history" of the Hergert teams beating up on Framingham is all of 2 seasons old, including the current one.Posted by Hockeymomsrule

On closer inspection, I take it back. You're right, its the last year and this year. In 2009 Framingham defeated Norwood and Wellesley, tied Dedham and lost to Walpole.

Still doesn't change the fact that Norwood, Dedham, Wellesley, Walpole should continue their dominance over the next 3 - 4 years.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Mary's and Hingham plays the toughest schedule and no one is going to argue that. But AB's schedule is not that easy. Out of league, they took: Fontbonne Arlington Hingham Mary's Woburn Bill and Chelms are going to the post season and Westford is good on the other side. AB's SOS is 17 combined D1 and D2 around 80 teams. Duxbury's SOS is 4. They played out of league against: Walpole Canton Mount St Charles, RI Hingham Bay View, RI Mary's Bill Falmouth is good this year as well as Barnstable End of the day, if you play a soft schedule, you could pay for it in the post season by not being ready. Prime example Medford last season. But, if you have a tough tough schedule you may find yourself not in the post season. Example Austin Prep last season. Goal number 1 is make the post season. So you have to balance your non league so you can A. get better and B. get some wins. Good luck to all post season teams. ps. I wouldn't want to be feared as a team at all. Let everyone look past us and then I would play up the no respect card and get my team all fired up. A motivated high school hockey team in the post season can go along way.Posted by goodtime19

AB hasn't played SMH or Woburn yet. they have a cupcake schedule. Hingham once...they pad the schedule and hope for the best in the playoffs

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Its always been that way in BCS Herget has been better over the years, Mom I know you are amped up about next year in coming freshmen but they will be still freshmen. Until they straighten out whats going on with those coaches the kids will get to HS and level off. This game is skating and passing Fram. can not continue on this path. They have athletes but no hockey sense and they are not being taught the correct way of playing. They have a long list of players that came to the school from club programs and never got any better than their freshman year, Davis, Desimone, Brown, Manzella (best hands in league) Wilder, Agostinelli, Curran, Smith the big defensemen. Sorry these girls were great youth players that leveled off in HS because of the lack of coaching. Carey is weak division Framingham will make playoffs and coaching will be patted on back. Same every year (except this year) I feel bad for underclassman and younger. Posted by metrofan

Natick, Norwood and Walpole only began being competitive about 4 yrs ago. Needham and North were also pretty good back then as well.

But let's dive into the crust of your argument. I have reviewed your 25 posts dating back to last year. You have had multiple posts regarding Framingham so that leads me to believe you have someone in the program. I know that Hockeymoms Rule has a daughter on the team and she make no secret of it. Do you have someone in the program?

Framingham has athletes is correct. Athletes do not translate to good hockey players. Yes, skating is the key. The Ukraine national Pee Wee team is in the US and practiced in Winchester recently. They are preparing for the Pee Wee tourney up in Quebec. There coach said he didn't touch a puck in practice until he was a teenager. There practices consist of skating and no pucks.

So here is the debate: Should a player have the basic hockey skills before they get to high-school? If they don't have those skills should they play JV? Is high-school hockey more about taking a players raw basic abilities and molding them around hockey systems and hockey sense?

Now back to Framingham. First, they are short on numbers. That means no cuts and girls who may be not up to the level are going to make the team. Second, the girls are not hard on the puck or fast skaters. Is this something the girls should take the initiative to get better on there own or should valuable ice time be spent on proper skating techniques and developing being hard on the puck. I believe they had a thing called "power skating" when I was a kid. You get 50 mins of ice 4 times a week if you are lucky. And of that 50 mins it could be split with JV.

Okay so I think we have established basic hockey skill deficiencies with the Flyers. Let's now look at the coaching. From the games I've seen and I see a lot of girls D1 and D2 games including the Flyers, I see the following:They appear to run the box plus 1. This is pretty standard in girls hockey. They appear to play wing on wing in the neutral zone. The forecheck appears to be the L, again standard in girls hockey (tough to tell if really the L due to lack of speed to initiate the L), large box on the PK and I there PP is some kind of shooting pp (possibly). Also, a poster from last yr mentioned seeing the Flyer's coaching staff scouting Arlington in the event they drew them in the tourney. So on hockey knowledge and sense I would say they appear to have some clue.

Now they leaves the intangibles. How do the girls like the staff, how is there chemistry? I could imagine it must be pretty tough to coach teen girls, you posters have daughters so think about having 20 to deal with. Next, how is the relationship between the parents and the coaching staff?

It comes down to this, you can only do so much. To use some of your example players above, only Manzella was a great player. She was playing D3 at UMass Boston. I am surprised you left Katie Cox off your list as she had 303 points and was the best player ever to come out of Framingham. Every other player you mentioned was an okay player. I also didn't see any mention of the JV players who didn't even know how to skate but when on years later to contribute at the varsity level. Hartwell and Wright come to mind and maybe Bernas.

Are the coaches in Framingham the best in the state, NO. Are there some things they could do different, PROBABLY. The same could be said about 90 percent of the coaches in girls hockey.

Are the Framingham Flyers full of girls who play hockey year round and attend summer camps to improve there basic hockey skills, NO. How long has Framingham had a girls U team, 3 Years.

My apologies for being so long winded but as a former coach it really gets me going when people come on and start trashing them. These men and women give a lot of time and effort to it. They are not professionals or even college coaches. There job is to prepare kids for life THROUGH sports. I have been around and programs go in cycles, its always 85 percent the players you have and 15 percent the coaches. That is the same win or lose.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : AB hasn't played SMH or Woburn yet. they have a cupcake schedule. Hingham once...they pad the schedule and hope for the best in the playoffsPosted by sleeper3

Sleeper -Go back to sleep! Braintree and Arlington are also very good teams. If you want to see a cupcake schedule take a look at Duxbury's "D2" schedule.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Sleeper - Go back to sleep! Braintree and Arlington are also very good teams. If you want to see a cupcake schedule take a look at Duxbury's "D2" schedule. Posted by Go Beez

Beez - We get you don't like the rankings for Duxbury and it my perception is that you think D2 is the JV league. You're entitled to you opinion. Enough already.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : AB hasn't played SMH or Woburn yet. they have a cupcake schedule. Hingham once...they pad the schedule and hope for the best in the playoffsPosted by sleeper3

Can we be real here for one minute? If AB is going to play Mary's and Woburn prior to the season ending, how the do you call that "pad the schedule?" Just b/c they have not played them means nothing. At the end of the season they will have played them and all the other quality opponents I pointed out. And all of those games will factor into where they get seeded. Padding a schedule is playing all weak non league games getting a high seed as a reward. And for the teams that do that, they usually don't go to far.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Sleeper - Go back to sleep! Braintree and Arlington are also very good teams. If you want to see a cupcake schedule take a look at Duxbury's "D2" schedule. Posted by Go Beez

I really think Duxbury's schedule is pretty good. They are playing Mary's and Hingham. They played Canton and Walpole. Not trying to be a jerk, but if you were scheduling who would you like to see them play?

GT19 - please don't encourage Beez. its constant Duxbury and D2 bashing. I'm sure Beez doesn't consider either Canton or Walpole to be good teams as they are both D2 and I'm sure in Beez's opinion play cupcake schedules.

Good - once again you explained it so much better than I could. Yep, have one there now. Think it's funny though that someone else from there assumed last year when I'd speak highly of plays made by a defenseman, they assumed it was mine but in fact it was Wilder I was referring to, who was phenominal and was a true leader to mine when she got there and taught her the ropes so to speak. I rarely talk about my own, good or bad. She is what she is, she loves the game, end of story. Back on topic: Our best hockey specific talent is at privates, fact. On this years team we have 3 players who will more than likely be playing sports in college, but for OTHER sports in which they excel at and play year round and do all those little extra things an athlete needs to do to reach that goal. Ditto for Agostinelli, average hockey player, but strong athlete and playing DI lax (her sister, one of ours at a private is another story entirely, amazing hockey player). Wilder, same, and again, playing lax in college. 2 of our current 3 will most likely be playing field hockey or lax in college and the other softball.

Fact remains, for many years the youth program ignored the girls and didn't care if they retained them or developed them. It's been 3 years since they started the girls program and they will now have 9 coming in next year. 6 or 7 the following year, then back to 8, etc., etc. etc. There has not been one year where this team has had more than 4 players come into it with any sort of playing experience. Next year they have 9. Of those 9, 2 are outright legit Tier I level players whose fate is in their own hands as to whether they play beyond h.s. or not. The next 3 are a shade below, but will still make a difference for the team and the next 4 will add some much needed depth to give the first liners the rest they need in the earlier periods. An option the team has never had.

Coaching staff is without a doubt inexperienced, there are rumors of possible changes on the horizon and the girls are excited hoping they come to fruition.

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : I really think Duxbury's schedule is pretty good. They are playing Mary's and Hingham. They played Canton and Walpole. Not trying to be a jerk, but if you were scheduling who would you like to see them play?Posted by goodtime19

Good time youre not being a jerk so dont worry about that. Hey Beez. AB and Billerica 1-1? How did lame Duxbury do against Billerica?

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : Good time youre not being a jerk so dont worry about that. Hey Beez. AB and Billerica 1-1? How did lame Duxbury do against Billerica?Posted by Scooter8

scooter8, the AB and Billerica game is a rivalry which brings out the best no matter what each teams record is, where as the game with Duxbury was just another scheduled game, an unknown!So in defence for both teams by saying the word rivalry its tough to compare schedules. But I'll ask you this question, when the regular season is done both teams will go on to play in the tournament within their divisions (1 and 2), so you tell me honestly who has the toughest road ahead of them?

In Response to Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2011-2012 : I really think Duxbury's schedule is pretty good. They are playing Mary's and Hingham. They played Canton and Walpole. Not trying to be a jerk, but if you were scheduling who would you like to see them play?Posted by goodtime19

Honestly, I would just like to see them play in D1 with a full slate of D1 opponents; until then, they should getted ranked accordingly.