Concealed Carry 9mm Auto Pistols

Right now I'm carrying a S&W 340PD revolver in .357 mag as my usual carry piece and after shooting several 9mm pistols with +P and +P+ ammo, Im considering an upgrade to a light compact high capacity 9mm for concealed carry. So help me find a good choice.

Here are my requirements:

-Must have a 10 round or more capacity (preferably 12) in 9mm
-Must be rated for 9mm +P or preferably +P+ (Winchester Rangers)
-Must be under 20oz unloaded weight (preferably with a titanium slide)
-Must be DA/SA, absolutely NO DAOs will be considered (I realize this may limit my options considerably).
-Must have a manual safety (thumb operated, a trigger aint no damn safety unless its a revolver)
-Must have 3-dot night sights available for it (preferably as a factory option)

I've been looking at the Kahr PM9, but its got an uuuugly DAO trigger and no manual safety. Its also not got much capacity-wise. If I only wanted 6 rounds , I'd carry a 45acp.

The pistol that seems to fit the bill best so far is the Taurus PT111. There appears to be a PT111 that comes with a with a titanium slide and night sights standard, but from what I can tell it was only ever made in a DAO model, not DA/SA.... but for some reason I cant fine ANY information on the Taurus site about their titanium frame/slide pistols... did they discontinue these or something? The steel slide DA/SA PT111s are allright, but the Heine straight-8 sights are craptacular and I cant seem to find out whether night sights are available. No mention of whether they can handle +P or +P+. Anyone have clarification here on what exactly is available for the PT111?

If I had to compare the P99c/AS to any other pistol I've ever owned it would be the Glock 26.. The Walther is like a Glock 26 on steroids, with the crappy grip fixed, the "always light, ad/nd looking to happen trigger" corrected and more accurate right out of the box. The other goodies are just icing on the cake.

Oh yes.. You might ask about the requirement for an "thumb mounted manual safety".. Apparently you are completely satisfied with a revolver with no thumb mounted manual safety, depending (I guess) on the heavy da trigger pull to prevent ad/nd's?

There is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE between the potential safety of a revolver da trigger, and the da trigger on the Walther P99c/AS.

You are "suppose" to keep your finger off the trigger anyway until you are ready to shoot something, and if you do your part the sweet Walther P99c/AS trigger/striker will NEVER pull it's on trigger. The 8.8lb da trigger pull will give you the PRECISE SAME SAFETY AGAINST An AD/ND AS THE da trigger on a revolver.. No more, no less...

My favorite revolver is in fact a S&W J-frame Airweight Bodyguard w/Crimson Trace Lasergrips.. The safety on the Bodyguard is obviously the da trigger pull. I have at my disposal with the 638 5rds of 38cal +p rounds..

The Walther P99c/AS offers me ELEVEN 9MM +P rounds in approximately the same size package. The Walther P99c/AS has a safety too... It's the 8.8lb trigger pull.

In years of severe testing no one has ever been able to make the Walther P99c/AS pull its own trigger and cause an ad/nd.. NEVER.

I can never get it clear in my mind why a person is comfortable with a revolver with no "safety" (other than da trigger pull) yet is adament that a pistol using a da first round is somehow less safe.. It simply doesn't compute.

I would hate to see you pass on what I personally consider a premier cc pistol with fantastic qualities, including fantastic accuracy, simply because you had an unreasonable fear of the dreaded pistol da trigger pull when you don't have the same concerns about the da trigger pull of a revolver..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

AK103K

November 28, 2006, 07:32 PM

A little over on the weight.

SIG P229 in 9mm and 357SIG.(9mm starting out at +P+ levels in a gun built to take it)

http://www.sigarms.com/images/catalog/product/229Rleft.jpg

vince24L

November 28, 2006, 08:30 PM

2nd the p99compact. perfect. you'll understand once you hold one of them. and then go shoot it and see how accurate it is. the perfect gun in my eyes.

I just recieved the Taurus catalog yesterday. The 111 now comes in SA/DA and all Taurus guns are +P rated. It doesn't say anything about the sights and only a 24/7 and an 85 .38 special are shown in titanium.

I think the 111 is going to be my next purchase.

Dollar An Hour

November 28, 2006, 09:49 PM

I like the P99c AS suggested above, but it doesn't have your manual thumb safety requirement. Nite Sights would have to be an aftermarket addition. It's also not +P rated, though lots of guys carry +P in their P99s, I wouldn't feed my pistol a steady diet of them.

I also like the S&W CS9 which seems to meet all your requirements except factory NS.

Take a look at the Sig P239, maybe in .357Sig. It's like 9mm +P+ all the time! :evil:

ugaarguy

November 28, 2006, 10:01 PM

Right now I'm carrying a S&W 340PD revolver in .357 mag as my usual carry piece and after shooting several 9mm pistols with +P and +P+ ammo, Im considering an upgrade to a light compact high capacity 9mm for concealed carry. So help me find a good choice.

Here are my requirements:

-Must have a 10 round or more capacity (preferably 12) in 9mm
-Must be rated for 9mm +P or preferably +P+ (Winchester Rangers)
-Must be under 20oz unloaded weight (preferably with a titanium slide)
-Must be DA/SA, absolutely NO DAOs will be considered (I realize this may limit my options considerably).
-Must have a manual safety (thumb operated, a trigger aint no damn safety unless its a revolver)
-Must have 3-dot night sights available for it (preferably as a factory option)

With modern semi-autos you've got to look past the DAO & DA/SA traditional definitions. Glocks have the striker pre-cocked about 60% and the trigger pull finishes cocking and then releases the striker. It's a lightened or partially pre-cocked form of DA. S&W uses a pretensioned mainspring on some of their conventional hammer & firing pin autos; the trigger pull finishes fully tensioning the mainspring and cocks the hammer thru the full range bafore releasing it. The result is a light & smooth DA trigger pull. Kel-Tec uses a similar system on the P3AT and PF-9; Para's LDA, SIG's DAK, and HK's LEM all operate in a similar fashion as well.

You're comfortable carrying a DA revolver with no safety, yet you exclude DAO autos all together, and insist on a manual safety for DA/SA autos, claiming "...a trigger aint no damn safety unless its a revolver...". In a hammer fired DA/SA auto there is NO difference in safety. A DAO auto (not one of the lightened DA designs like I mention above) is just like a DA revolver in terms of trigger operation. I'm having trouble following these limitations. Regardless, it's your gun, your money, and you're prference, so i'll try to respond within those limitations.

Limitations factored in, SIG only offers their P series autos with a manual safety in SAO, & Ruger's P series doesn't offer a compact. Off the top of my head only the S&W Chief's Special autos and the HK USPc meet the compact DA/SA auto with manual safety requirement. The CZ Rami and 75 compact would also be options to look at, though I believe the DA/SA models with a safety must be manually decocked - far more dangerous than carrying DA/SA without a safety as you're manually lowering the hammer on a live round and not using a decocker with hammer block. CZ does offer decocker models, but I believe you lose the manual safety when go to a decocker. Hopefully that's helpful.

camacho

November 28, 2006, 10:29 PM

I just recieved the Taurus catalog yesterday. The 111 now comes in SA/DA and all Taurus guns are +P rated.

Well, nowhere in the manual it says that the 111s are +P rated, the only reference is this one: “Plus-P’, “PIus-P-Plus” or other ultra or high velocity ammunition generates pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the useful life of the firearm or exceed the margin of safety built into many pistols and could therefore be DANGEROUS. which is not endorsement of +P ammo.

Otherwise the 111 is an excellent gun and I will highly recomend it but I am not sure about the +P rating.

alpha6164

November 28, 2006, 10:40 PM

In no particular order: Not all meet every one of your requirements, but i think this list should be considered by anybody considering a 9mm CCW.

1)Kahr PM9
2)Kimber Ultracarry II
3)Springfield Armory XD subcomact
4)HK P2000SK
5)HK P7M8 (does not have 10 rounds) but has to be mentioned as one of the best and most accurate 9mm ever made. Plus safe as hell with the squeeze grip design.
6) SIG P239
7) Glock 26
8) Walter P99 or its S&W brother

If price was not an issue, i would either take the HK P2000SK or P7M8 without a doubt.

45crittergitter

November 28, 2006, 10:50 PM

The Kel-Tec P11 is what most of us would call DAO.

The new Taurus 24/7 may meet the requirements - I'm not sure about the weight.

modifiedbrowning

November 28, 2006, 10:54 PM

Check out the Bersa Thunder 9 Ultracompact.
www.bersafirearmsusa.com

mosttoyswins

November 28, 2006, 10:58 PM

-Must have a manual safety (thumb operated, a trigger aint no damn safety unless its a revolver)

Keep your booger hook off the trigger and you don't have to worry about the manual safety (and a nice IWB holster that covers the trigger)...one of the best...G26
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/jstaudt/IMG_1904.jpg
Otherwise this fits most of your requirements...CZ 2075 RAMI
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c394/jstaudt/IMG_1700.jpg

mole

November 28, 2006, 11:11 PM

Well, nowhere in the manual it says that the 111s are +P rated, the only reference is this one:

The manual for my pt92 states that it is +P rated. The second page of the 2006 catalog has at the bottom left in large letters "+P Rated for Duty Use." The writing below states "All Taurus handguns, including the [insert several metals] accept Plus-P ammo"

It could be that if your's has a little age on it the manual didn't include that info or maybe the older ones weren't rated for +P. I personally wouldn't feed it a steady diet of +P because it would probably lead to it wearing out sooner.

kokapelli

November 29, 2006, 10:09 AM

The current Taurus PT111 PRO can only be carried in single action!

It does not have a decocker.

Once you chamber a round it is fully cocked and it is not just partially cocked like a Glock or Kahr.

If you buy a new PT111, you are going to be carrying a fully cocked single action pistol just like a 1911, but it is striker fired.

What really irritates me about Taurus is that they still list their PT line of pistols as DA/SA, which implies that you can carry in a double action mode.

Well you can't carry their current production pistols in double action.

There is no decocker and they can only be carried single action.

Here is their website________
http://www.taurususa.com/products/gunselector-results.cfm?series=MP1

DogBonz

November 29, 2006, 10:17 AM

I'd go with the HK Usp or P2000. If you would go a little haevier, then a SIG 229 would be a great fit.

bb21

November 29, 2006, 02:27 PM

I recently purchased the Mil Pro SA/DA after a lot of research and comparison. For me the grip fit my hand much better than the other subcompacts. As for the +P you should be ok from what I have read in the manual, now +P+ I am not too sure about that. Night sights are available I believe Heinie makes them and possibly a couple of other manufactures. I am not real sure how easy it would be to get the Titanium slide, but you will probably be limited with that with any of your choices. I would also suggest the XD9sc, but you have to be ok with the grip safety as your required safety. Also the CZ Rami is a close fit, I don't think Titanium is an option though and the weight could be an issue. For the money the Mil Pro is the way to go and you can get your night sights and a couple of Mec Gar mags for the same price as the XD or CZ. Good Luck and Be Safe!

Right now I'm carrying a S&W 340PD revolver in .357 mag as my usual carry piece and after shooting several 9mm pistols with +P and +P+ ammo, Im considering an upgrade to a light compact high capacity 9mm for concealed carry. So help me find a good choice.

Here are my requirements:

-Must have a 10 round or more capacity (preferably 12) in 9mm
-Must be rated for 9mm +P or preferably +P+ (Winchester Rangers)
-Must be under 20oz unloaded weight (preferably with a titanium slide)
-Must be DA/SA, absolutely NO DAOs will be considered (I realize this may limit my options considerably).
-Must have a manual safety (thumb operated, a trigger aint no damn safety unless its a revolver)
-Must have 3-dot night sights available for it (preferably as a factory option)

I've been looking at the Kahr PM9, but its got an uuuugly DAO trigger and no manual safety. Its also not got much capacity-wise. If I only wanted 6 rounds , I'd carry a 45acp.

The pistol that seems to fit the bill best so far is the Taurus PT111. There appears to be a PT111 that comes with a with a titanium slide and night sights standard, but from what I can tell it was only ever made in a DAO model, not DA/SA.... but for some reason I cant fine ANY information on the Taurus site about their titanium frame/slide pistols... did they discontinue these or something? The steel slide DA/SA PT111s are allright, but the Heine straight-8 sights are craptacular and I cant seem to find out whether night sights are available. No mention of whether they can handle +P or +P+. Anyone have clarification here on what exactly is available for the PT111?

Any other pistol suggestions within my requirement parameters?

Sounds like you already picked the PT111

There are several outside of your specifications that I'd recommend you try, the Glock 26 or the Kahr being two of them.

I've carried one or the other in my pocket or on my hip most of my waking hours for some time now. Which one depending on where I'm going, and what I'll be wearing. I still have all my important parts in one piece. I switch between Condition 1 and Condition 3 carry depending on circumstance. I practice pocket draws both Condition 1 and Condition 3. Most importantly, I practice with these pistols regularly. I can get very good hits out to 25 yards with both.

However, you have to decide what works for you. If you set your heart on the PT111, go for it. Hopefully it will serve you well.

Good luck!!

CZ52'

Walkalong

November 29, 2006, 04:22 PM

Kahr or EMP - have both, like both - Kahr is simpler for some.

Seven High

November 29, 2006, 04:33 PM

Take a look at the CZ PCR or P01. Both are top notch weapons.

MD_Willington

November 29, 2006, 04:48 PM

S&W 6906...

YES 12-Must have a 10 round or more capacity (preferably 12) in 9mm
YES for ocassional use -Must be rated for 9mm +P or preferably +P+ (Winchester Rangers)
NO ~1.46 lbs (.67 kg) -Must be under 20oz unloaded weight (preferably with a titanium slide)
YES -Must be DA/SA, absolutely NO DAOs will be considered (I realize this may limit my options considerably).
YES -Must have a manual safety (thumb operated, a trigger aint no damn safety unless its a revolver)
YES -Must have 3-dot night sights available for it (preferably as a factory option)

XNavyflyer

November 30, 2006, 11:30 AM

+1 for the CZ P01 or PCR. Outstanding weapons for very reasonable prices. Not sure about the weight requirement and no manual safety but definitely worth consideration.

MD Willington's observations re the S&W 6906 are spot on. The one thing he didn't mention is the fact that Smith "3rd generation" pistols have a sterling reputation for good reliability; a basic requirement for a self-defense piece that the original poster omitted in his "must have" list.
It is unfortunate that S&W no longer makes this pistol but they are easy enough to find used. They are also relatively affordable; one in very good condition should not be too hard to find for under $300.00.

MD_Willington

December 4, 2006, 03:35 PM

My used 5906 is boringly reliable, I'd like to get a 6909 as the 5906 is a tad large for me to carry.

I'm up to 1000 rounds of mixed JHP & FMJ from 4 manufacturers in various states of clean though dirty, & I don't know the previous round count.

Of the 1000 rounds I've only experienced 4 FTF & only when the pistol was exceptionly dirty and I was somewhat expecting that to occur as I was keeping tabs on how dirty the pistol was getting... Think coal chute dirty.

MD

MICHAEL T

December 4, 2006, 08:44 PM

well my 9mm carry are a Colt Commander in 9mm has a cafety and can't beat L&C
Other is a S&W 3913 a nice DA/SA pistol. Both carry just fine when Iam in mood for 9mm.