There seems to be something preventing trains entering from Northwich if a train has previously used the line from Sandbach northbound. Using the attached file, starting at 00:00 northbound trains work fine, but trains due to enter at Northwich never appear. With a start time of 02:40 the southbound train due at 02.41MX works fine.

See pedroathome's post further up this thread- he's aware of it and it will be fixed in the next update."Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)Log in to replyThe following user said thank you:whatlep

There seems to be something preventing trains entering from Northwich if a train has previously used the line from Sandbach northbound. Using the attached file, starting at 00:00 northbound trains work fine, but trains due to enter at Northwich never appear. With a start time of 02:40 the southbound train due at 02.41MX works fine.

I've got one other issue to fix, and an update shall be made available

EDIT - one other item noted. The line codes when timetabling heading south from Sandbach have FL/SL as options, though onscreen designations are Up/Down Wilmslow for the fast/ passenger lines and up/down Manchester Independent for the slow/ goods lines as per the Sectional Appendix. Deliberate to make timetabling easier?

While I cant explain the line codes, I suspct that this is a throw back to when there was a crossover at Sydney Bridge Junction, and lines were identified as Fast (Current Crewe Line) and Slow (Current Salop Goods Line)Log in to replyThe following user said thank you:whatlep

Problem with 6Z07 on DN Middlewich. It comes to a stand just short of the access to British Salt Siding and shows as stopped at signal (there is no signal there on the screen). Eventually rings in then proceeds when authorized to pass signal at danger.

Problem with 6Z07 on DN Middlewich. It comes to a stand just short of the access to British Salt Siding and shows as stopped at signal (there is no signal there on the screen). Eventually rings in then proceeds when authorized to pass signal at danger.

Attached save has 6Z07 on the Middlewich single line. When run for about 5mins, 6z07 reproducibly comes to a stand with status "stopped at signal British Salt Siding GF" and should then call in to report this at 06.17 sim time.

Note, I am indeed running sim v1.1 but continuing a session that believe was started on the original release.

Am also chained with Stockport and noticed that when TD's are transferred in either direction there is quite a delay before clicking on the APPR berth calls up the relevant TT.Post has attachments. Log in to view them.Log in to replyThe following user said thank you:whatlep

Many thanks to pedroathome for the recent update which addresses issues with the sidings around Sandbach & Middlewich and (I think) also fixes a sequencing issue on the Northwich single line. 1977 timetabling continues....
Last edited:
21/12/2018 at 17:23
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whatlep
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Attached save has 6Z07 on the Middlewich single line. When run for about 5mins, 6z07 reproducibly comes to a stand with status "stopped at signal British Salt Siding GF" and should then call in to report this at 06.17 sim time.

Note, I am indeed running sim v1.1 but continuing a session that believe was started on the original release.

Am also chained with Stockport and noticed that when TD's are transferred in either direction there is quite a delay before clicking on the APPR berth calls up the relevant TT.

Fixed for the next update. The updated version wasen't the cause here, it was a little logic back to front.

TDs are reliant on a route being set through before populating the appproach berth on either sim, I think with the exception on Stockport on the last 2 signals to South where they populate the approach berth anyway as there is no other route for trains to take.

In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.Post has attachments. Log in to view them.Log in to reply

In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.

From the manual:Cheadle Hulme

There are restrictions on which routes can be set simultaneously over the junction. This is down to the positioning of Points 5250. When trying to set such routes, you will get a message along the lines of “No Overlap Available”, or “Subroute Locked in Opposite Direction”.

For example, if you have a route set, Signal 385 to Signal 391, along with the route, Signal 4390 to Signal 4388, you cannot set the route, Signal 4125 to Signal 4395.

====As for why in sim you get the message relating to no overlap being available. For all intents and purposes the signal concerned have a longer (but hidden) overlap which enforces this. This is obviousally hidden, and the status of the tracks in said overlap are also not considerd.

In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.

From the manual:Cheadle Hulme

There are restrictions on which routes can be set simultaneously over the junction. This is down to the positioning of Points 5250. When trying to set such routes, you will get a message along the lines of “No Overlap Available”, or “Subroute Locked in Opposite Direction”.

For example, if you have a route set, Signal 385 to Signal 391, along with the route, Signal 4390 to Signal 4388, you cannot set the route, Signal 4125 to Signal 4395.

====As for why in sim you get the message relating to no overlap being available. For all intents and purposes the signal concerned have a longer (but hidden) overlap which enforces this. This is obviousally hidden, and the status of the tracks in said overlap are also not considerd.

James

Right I see. I think the presence of 1H63 on the down line locking the points which is what confused me - i.e. I was sure I had set up the same routes earlier and it had worked.

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.Post has attachments. Log in to view them.Log in to reply

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James

Agreed that the GF does become available after a wait (no call in from the driver), but the train appears to remain "held by conditions". See attached file.Post has attachments. Log in to view them.Log in to reply

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James

Agreed that the GF does become available after a wait (no call in from the driver), but the train appears to remain "held by conditions". See attached file.

Not sure if the circuit display is wrong, or the signal is positioned incorrectly, but Ups passing Holmes Chapel will occupy the TC's on the station and approaching 4070, then both before and after 4070 (without stepping up the TD), then finally stepping up and replacing 4070 only when circuit TFHC is occupied. Looks worng. Have attached a test TT save just before the issue.

It's common on Manchester South for opposing signals to share a track circuit. With this type of thing it's always useful to turn on track circuit breaks.Post has attachments. Log in to view them."CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employerLog in to reply

This probably explains why in the real world, up trains arriving at Holmes Chapel don't show on the PIS screens whilst in the platform - because they think we've been and gone!There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.Log in to reply