Paul Zachary Myers, a professor at the University of Minnesota Morris, has pledged to desecrate the Eucharist. He is responding to what happened recently at the University of Central Florida when a student walked out of Mass with the Host, holding it hostage for several days.

The scene: a deserted factory, surrounded by police cars. Spotlights light up a broken window on the third floor. A voice comes from the window:

Alright, you dirty coppers, listen to me good! Either I get fifty thousand dollars, a helicopter to Brazil and a case of diet coke or ... THE CRACKER GETS IT!!

--------------Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. Edward Feser

Winner gets a years subscription to Uncommon Descent. Losers get two year subscriptions.

When will Salvador be outed?

Year: 2009

Month: June

Day: 29th

Voluntary/Involuntary?: Involuntary at the start. Visiting GayPride in San Fran that year to "convert teh homos" Sal finally breaks down and heads for the nearest toilet. Whilst demonstrating his wide stance he gets caught by several burly policemen who escort him to a series of delightful parties. Sal goes off the radar for a few years and in 2015 we start to hear from a mysterious YEC lady called Sally.......

Meth involved?: Not initially but at about the time of the third party on June 29th Sal gets introduced to what is known in fundy circles as "Haggard's Bane".

Louis

P.S. On the John Kwok/Heddle/ERV thing: Whatever else Heddle is and does, the rights and wrongs of which are basically irrelevant, he is bang on with this one. This John Kwok lad, no matter whose "side" he is on has behaved like a total arse, and "reviewing" a book one has not read is the very epitome of dullardly dishonesty. Bad move, Kwok, take your lumps like a man and own up.

We all know that Dembski's books are incredibly likely to be the usual rehashed crap, and there's nothing wrong with saying that, but publishing an actual review of the book requires that one has read it. Full stop. Mincing about afterwards with various excuses and lies doesn't cut the mustard. Dumb crap is dumb crap whoever does it.

I get seriously annoyed by reviews of (for example) The God Delusion by people who clearly haven't read more than the title, I think Dembski's rubbish, whilst obviously not even remotely of the same quality, deserves the modicum of respect of actually being read before properly reviewed. Or simply dismissed as the obvious tripe it is. One or t'other, can't have cake and eat it etc.

Myers is playing Russian roulette. He just keeps pushing the envelope in seeing how many people he can possibly offend in the worst way. It’s just a matter of time before someone with a terminal disease, a month left to live, decides he hasn’t got anything to lose by taking out Myers along with him.

A friend of mine who scoffs at both ID and religion has stated to me in the past that he would have no compunction about doing just what you said (although PZ was not the target). Though not a man of science, he thinks like PZ and understands that if PZ’s worldview is correct, then offing your enemy in the last moments of life is permissible. How could it be otherwise?

DaveScot replies:

Quote

Plenty of murders happen that way. Killer takes out the victim(s) then uses the last bullet on himself.

You’re quite right about the worldview. If there’s no possibility of being held accountable for your actions in life after you’re dead then there’s nothing to stop you from doing anything you want as long as you know you won’t be punished for it while you’re alive.

Given the large and growing number of people who don’t believe in accountability after death I often wonder why there aren’t a lot more murder/suicides. What’s stopping them?

Most people think that murder is wrong even if it goes unpunished, doofus.

Dave and Russ: two grown men to whom the word "conscience" means nothing more than "wondering if Sky Daddy would approve".

--------------And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

"Most people think that murder is wrong even if it goes unpunished, doofus.

Dave and Russ: two grown men to whom the word “conscience” means nothing more than “wondering if Sky Daddy would approve”. "

What is a “conscience” when an atheist refers to it? Can it be weighed or measured to confirm its material existence? Is it subject to experiment to figure how it works?

At any rate, my “conscience” doesn’t necessarily think that murder is wrong. For instance, I could easily murder someone like Timothy McVeigh if I found out he was planning to kill a bunch of innocent people. The only thing that would stop me would be the threat of punishment. You can’t just go around killing people by unilateral decision. My conscience, which is really no more than my own self-reflection, would bother me if I could have murdered McVeigh but didn’t and then 168 innocent men women and children died when I could have prevented it by taking the law into my own hands.

So if Dave was in ab Arab country and he knew lots of lovely Christians were about to be beheaded for their beliefs, he's do nothing because he's scared of the punishment... And clowns. And cheesypoofs that have gone green in the middle...

So if Dave was in ab Arab country and he knew lots of lovely Christians were about to be beheaded for their beliefs, he's do nothing because he's scared of the punishment... And clowns. And cheesypoofs that have gone green in the middle...

Richard - I am afraid I have to really take you to task for your recent comment about DaveScot.

There is NO WAY that Dave, being the kind of man that he is, would EVER be afraid of a cheesy poof, even if it IS a little green in the middle.

--------------Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

For instance, I could easily murder someone like Timothy McVeigh if I found out he was planning to kill a bunch of innocent people. The only thing that would stop me would be the threat of punishment. You can’t just go around killing people by unilateral decision.

DaveTard, master of theology:

Quote

My conscience, which is really no more than my own self-reflection,

DaveTard, comedian:

Quote

My conscience, which is really no more than my own self-reflection,

Quote

One instance that comes to mind is with Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror.

--------------"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

I do not know if Myers is telling the truth or not, but the point is that we do NOT attack the naturalistic monopoly on though (in public schools and other public forums) with death threats or violence. We do need to be proactive but we also need to be civilized.

Quote

Original: DaveScotIt’s just a matter of time before someone with a terminal disease, a month left to live, decides he hasn’t got anything to lose by taking out Myers along with him.

These kinds of ideas are NOT acceptable and while DaveScot may not wish harm on Myers, there could be crazy people out there that might get bad ideas from him and do something stupid. This kind of behavior from DaveScot is NOT acceptable and it is not how we should go about attacking the naturalistic monopoly on thought in public forums. Again, we need to be proactive, but we need to be civilized as well.

Though I seem to be banned from uncommondescent (for no apparent reason) I hope the moderators there read this.

"Most people think that murder is wrong even if it goes unpunished, doofus.

Dave and Russ: two grown men to whom the word “conscience” means nothing more than “wondering if Sky Daddy would approve”. "

What is a “conscience” when an atheist refers to it? Can it be weighed or measured to confirm its material existence? Is it subject to experiment to figure how it works?

At any rate, my “conscience” doesn’t necessarily think that murder is wrong. For instance, I could easily murder someone like Timothy McVeigh if I found out he was planning to kill a bunch of innocent people. The only thing that would stop me would be the threat of punishment. You can’t just go around killing people by unilateral decision. My conscience, which is really no more than my own self-reflection, would bother me if I could have murdered McVeigh but didn’t and then 168 innocent men women and children died when I could have prevented it by taking the law into my own hands.

So if Dave was in ab Arab country and he knew lots of lovely Christians were about to be beheaded for their beliefs, he's do nothing because he's scared of the punishment... And clowns. And cheesypoofs that have gone green in the middle...

You know, Dave, we can postulate the existence of something when we evidence of its effects.

A "conscience" is described by people who report feeling guilty about having done something that they think (also a process that we can postulate exists due to its effects on a person's behavior) is wrong. People who don't feel guilty are said to have no conscience (like, for example, those who did a search-and-replace of "creationism" for "intelligent design" in a new edition of Pandas, or the piece of work in Dover who bought a cartload of same and then lied about it on the witness stand. Eh?)

We can weigh water, but can we weigh a waterfall? How much does "falling" weigh? What molecules (other than those of the compound water) is it made of? For that matter, how much does unbelief weigh? Do I need a supernatural agent in order to transfer my unbelief with me when I walk my materialist self across a room? Do you see how stupid this question is? (Yes, he knows better - it's a rhetorical question (and how much does that weigh?))

How much does stupidity weigh? It certainly seems heavy to me. In fact, the stupidity of UD weighs on me. Is that conscience? Me thinketh so.

--------------Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Most people think that murder is wrong even if it goes unpunished, doofus.

Dave and Russ: two grown men to whom the word “conscience” means nothing more than “wondering if Sky Daddy would approve”. "

What is a “conscience” when an atheist refers to it? Can it be weighed or measured to confirm its material existence? Is it subject to experiment to figure how it works?

At any rate, my “conscience” doesn’t necessarily think that murder is wrong. For instance, I could easily murder someone like Timothy McVeigh if I found out he was planning to kill a bunch of innocent people. The only thing that would stop me would be the threat of punishment. You can’t just go around killing people by unilateral decision. My conscience, which is really no more than my own self-reflection, would bother me if I could have murdered McVeigh but didn’t and then 168 innocent men women and children died when I could have prevented it by taking the law into my own hands.

The baby Hitler fallacy. How come I'm not surprised that no argument is too stupid to rehash over at UD.

These kinds of ideas are NOT acceptable and while DaveScot may not wish harm on Myers, there could be crazy people out there that might get bad ideas from him and do something stupid. This kind of behavior from DaveScot is NOT acceptable and it is not how we should go about attacking the naturalistic monopoly on thought in public forums. Again, we need to be proactive, but we need to be civilized as well.

Though I seem to be banned from uncommondescent (for no apparent reason) I hope the moderators there read this.

Betta, you're right in principle. But if anyone out there is so batshit insane that they think DaveTard is a fount of good advice on how to live their life, they're already beyond helping. They'll go completely off the rails sooner or later anyway. Even if Dave never says another word.

--------------Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... Â The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

What blows me away is the artless messages I get from wwell’meaning people who inform me “you can believe in God and evolution!” - apparently, these people have simply accepted whole hog, at face value, Darwin lobbyist Eugenie Scott’s hype, completely ignoring the history.

It’s somewhat like accepting the Communist party’s account of communism as Truth.

See: “Accepting evolution” does not make you an atheist… oh, puh-LEASE! Not this rubbish again!

Edit: Subtlety is not my forte, as you probably can tell from this lame attempt to steer this thread back to UD.

These kinds of ideas are NOT acceptable and while DaveScot may not wish harm on Myers, there could be crazy people out there that might get bad ideas from him and do something stupid. This kind of behavior from DaveScot is NOT acceptable and it is not how we should go about attacking the naturalistic monopoly on thought in public forums. Again, we need to be proactive, but we need to be civilized as well.

Though I seem to be banned from uncommondescent (for no apparent reason) I hope the moderators there read this.

Betta, you're right in principle. But if anyone out there is so batshit insane that they think DaveTard is a fount of good advice on how to live their life, they're already beyond helping. They'll go completely off the rails sooner or later anyway. Even if Dave never says another word.

JohnW:

The point is not whether they'd do something eventually, although I would dispute that DaveScot is not adding something to the mix there, too. The point is, he's helping direct them. Singling out someone as a likely (and somewhat worthy) target.

Very similar to what Neal "A man's first girlfriend is a mule" Horsley did with abortion doctors on the Nuremberg Files website.

That’s funny. The Church Burnin’ Ebola Boys must not have seen this article. Go over there looking for a response on what happened to the Pharyngula presence on morris.umn.edu and there’s nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil must be the motto over there. If it doesn’t play well to the theophobes just maintain a stony silence - pretend it doesn’t exist.

Are y’all even capable of being shamed into acknowledging the hasty distancing of Pharyngula from the University of Minnesota’s web servers?

That’s funny. The Church Burnin’ Ebola Boys must not have seen this article. Go over there looking for a response on what happened to the Pharyngula presence on morris.umn.edu and there’s nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil must be the motto over there. If it doesn’t play well to the theophobes just maintain a stony silence - pretend it doesn’t exist.

Are y’all even capable of being shamed into acknowledging the hasty distancing of Pharyngula from the University of Minnesota’s web servers?

C’mon boys. Silence is NOT golden.

*crickets chirping*

Tell ya what, Dave old hoss, why don't you first tell us how you feel about Dr. Marks deep sixing The Brites after it became known he was Galapagos Finch? Oh, and could you ask Dr. Dr. Dembski about the version of the Judge Jones School of Law with extra flatulence that he promised on December 18, 2006? It is a little overdue. There's a good boy. Run along now.

--------------It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

That’s funny. The Church Burnin’ Ebola Boys must not have seen this article. Go over there looking for a response on what happened to the Pharyngula presence on morris.umn.edu and there’s nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil must be the motto over there. If it doesn’t play well to the theophobes just maintain a stony silence - pretend it doesn’t exist.

Are y’all even capable of being shamed into acknowledging the hasty distancing of Pharyngula from the University of Minnesota’s web servers?

C’mon boys. Silence is NOT golden.

*crickets chirping*

So help me out here.

When Marks has to move his website from a BU server, it is a serious threat to academic freedom, apple pie, and motherhood. Persecution like this has not been seen since Christians were tossed to the lions a couple of millenia ago!

When a link is removed from the UMM server, it is justice being served.

That’s funny. The Church Burnin’ Ebola Boys must not have seen this article. Go over there looking for a response on what happened to the Pharyngula presence on morris.umn.edu and there’s nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil must be the motto over there. If it doesn’t play well to the theophobes just maintain a stony silence - pretend it doesn’t exist.

Are y’all even capable of being shamed into acknowledging the hasty distancing of Pharyngula from the University of Minnesota’s web servers?

C’mon boys. Silence is NOT golden.

*crickets chirping*

What are we supposed to say? That a tax supported school should not allow faculty to say things like that? Wrong.

No, PZ can say what ever he likes on his own blog. If he said some of the things he says on his blog in his classroom, I would have a problem with it as it would be "creating a hostile workplace environment."

At some point, some student might take advantage of that vunerability PZ has created for himself.

If the university wants no part of this fight, then they blank links from their official operation to PZ's "private" writing.

PS: I hope that PZ doesn't learn the hard way that I was right about Paul Mirecki. There are a lot of Catholic cops, and Lutheren.

Edited by Dr.GH on July 11 2008,13:22

--------------"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

Back to the scheduled programming, todays forecast contains much gloating about the fallout of PZ's cracker post.

Doesn't seem right to me to be gloating about the expelling of a professor by a university because he thought child rape and genocide were somehow worse than mistreating a cracker. How will PZ support his poor trophy wife and family now that he is out of a job? What? he still has his job (*) but his private web site is no longer linked to from Baylor's . And how will PZ support his poor trophy wife and family now that he is out of a job?</melodrama></exaggeration>

</chirpingcrickets>Actually, I reckon the principal of UMM was probably more than a little pissed off at PZ for urging his readership to inundate him with positive complimentary messages of support. That's going to annoy anyone. I think the web site would still be there if it wasn't for that. I'm assuming it wasn't PZ's decision. That OK for you DS?

Not as bad as urging one's readership to inundate an entire board of regents with threats and hate mail. But not still not very nice.

I'm curious about DaveScot's religious beliefs. It was my understanding that he was an agnostic, but his recent posts seem to me the words of a theist. Has he converted? Or perhaps he mistakenly believes non-denom theist and agnostic are the same thing.

I'm curious about DaveScot's religious beliefs. It was my understanding that he was an agnostic, but his recent posts seem to me the words of a theist. Has he converted? Or perhaps he mistakenly believes non-denom theist and agnostic are the same thing.

Not as bad as urging one's readership to inundate an entire board of regents with threats and hate mail. But not still not very nice.

Oooh, I forgot about Dembski posting the names, addresses, and phone numbers (some of them unlisted) of the Baylor Regents at UD. Good recall, Steve my good man.

--------------It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

I'm curious about DaveScot's religious beliefs. It was my understanding that he was an agnostic, but his recent posts seem to me the words of a theist. Has he converted? Or perhaps he mistakenly believes non-denom theist and agnostic are the same thing.

Before I was banned over at UD, he responded to one of my questions by saying he believed in the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas.