Searched lectures at shunryusuzuki.com for
prajna paramita, prajnaparamita, hannya (Japanese for prajna), heart
sutra. Did not include use of prajna paramita when he was talking
about the six paramitas of which prajna paramita is the sixth -
except once to put it in that context. Did not include some
incidental mentions. Below are excerpts and links to whole lectures.
- DC

In the memory of the Buddha's Nirvana Day, we have
Sesshin in the Sokoji Meditation Hall.

I did not expect to have Sesshin so soon. It is not one
year yet since I came here. I am very grateful to the
Zen students who will attend this Sesshin. This Sesshin
will be called The First Sesshin of Sokoji.

It is very difficult to keep continuous effort for us,
but we must continue it for ever.

May Shojin Prajna Paramita be always with us by the
mercy of the Buddha.

Sojo was one of the four most famous disciples of
Kumarajiva, who came to China in 401 from Kucina, near
Tibet. Kumarajiva and Genjyo were epoch-making
translators of Buddhists scriptures. Kumarajiva
translated many of the Vaipulya1
scriptures and sutras of the Prajna Paramita group. The
Prajna Paramita Hridaya Sutra (Shingyo), which is said
to have been translated seven times, was also translated
by Kumarajiva, but his translation is said to be lost.

After bowing, the Prajna Paramita Sutra is recited three
times: once to Buddha and his first disciples (Arhat);
once to the Patriarchs, and once to our ancestors. The
Prajna Paramita Sutra is the teaching which Buddha,
after his Enlightenment, gave to his disciple, Sariputra,
saying: "Form is emptiness; emptiness is form." One
meaning of this sutra is that our ordinary perception
and understanding of things is illusory. Usually we do
not perceive things as they really are. We mistake for
real and permanent what is actually constantly changing.
This is true of human beings, too, when they are caught
by the idea of self. This theory of the transiency of
all things is one of the basic tenets of Buddhism, and
an understanding of it is essential to follow the
Traditional Way.

…

In the morning we say the Prajna Paramita Sutra the
first time to Buddha and the Arhats (the first
disciples). Part of the prayer that the priest or leader
of zazen says at this time: May we attain sammyo rokutsu.
Sammyo means the three powers of mind; rokutsu means the
six powers of mind, the former contained in the latter.
Power of mind means the power to fully understand
sentient beings and our own human nature. The first
power of mind is the capacity of sight and the second
power is that of hearing. To understand someone, we must
first see with our own eyes, and then hear what they say
with our ears. The third power is the cognitive capacity
to understand the words that we hear. The fourth power
is to understand what is really meant by what was said.
(Not just to understand the words, but to understand
what the person means to say by them.) The fifth power
is to comprehend the mind of the person speaking and to
understand why he suffers. Finally, the sixth power is
to perceive nature as it really is—as pure Buddha-nature
itself.

…

There is an old Chinese story which illustrates the
power of mind or understanding when one is truly free
from any idea of self. A famous old Zen master, Esan was
taking a nap, his face to the wall. His disciple, seeing
that he was asleep, passed by very quietly to avoid
awakening him. But Esan turned over and soon awoke. His
disciple said: "Oh, did I disturb you? Why not sleep
some more." But Esan only answered: "I had a wonderful
sleep and dream; do you know what it was?" His disciple,
at these words, left the room without replying and came
back with a basin of fresh water and a towel. Esan
washed his face saying: "That's wonderful!" Then a
second disciple came into the room. Esan asked him the
same question: "I had a good sleep and a wonderful
dream; can you tell me what my dream was?" The second
disciple left the room and came back with a cup of fresh
tea! Esan was delighted with his two disciples. He said:
"Why, my two disciples are even better than Sariputra!"
Sariputra was one of Buddha's first disciples, a
disciple of great Mahayana spirit, the one whom Buddha
addressed the Prajna Paramita Sutra.)

Some people asked Ryokan, “Do you have-- do you have--
in-- do you have Daihannya Kyo-- Great Wisdom Scripture?
We have 600 volume of scriptures about the wisdom. Do
you have Great Wisdom-- Scripture of Great Wisdom-- 600
volumes in your temple?” someone asked. And he asked him
to write [laughs] Daihannya Kyo in Chinese character on
his back. “You-- please write down Daihannya Kyo-- Lo-pya-kan—{?}here
on his back. Thank you very much.” [Laughs, laughter.]
“Here we have Great Wisdom Scripture-- Scripture of
Great Wisdom, and today I-- I want to dry those 600
volumes of scriptures in the sun so that no worm can eat
it. So he write down in the sunshine. Now today we have mushiboshi. Mushiboshi means, in Japan, once a year we
spread all the scriptures in the sunshine when it is--
when it is fine and dry. “So tonight we will have party,
so please join us,” he said [laughing]. It means if you
cannot acknowledge, you know, my practice, may be better
to write down big Prajnaparamita Sutra. “I am the big
Prajnaparamita Sutra,” you know. “If you don't
acknowledge me, please write down on your back so that
you can acknowledge it.”

Student G: Will you tell us what the meaning of the
first three words in the Heart Sutra are? The [1-2
words] says that-- or in Chinese Guan zi zai or Kan ji
zai, means “look, see”-- or “look, perceive, present.”
Or that is, am I-- what it really means is, “Look to see
if I am here or not.” “Am I present at this moment?” Is
that-- is that -- does it have that same meaning in Chi-
-- in Japanese or is it lost in translation?

SR: Kan?

Student G: Kanjizai.

SR: Kanjizai. Jizai is “free”: freedom without any
disturbance and without any form or color. Kan. Kan is
not to-- not to observe form or color, but to understand
full meaning of it-- full meaning of the color-- through
color and form to understand its true meaning. Kan does
not mean philosophy or science-- scientific knowledge,
scientific viewpoint-- understanding from our sense
organ or our-- by philosophical effort. To-- to
penetrate into the true meaning of it, that is kan.
Kan-- jizai-- when it-- the kan is fully in function,
the function is jizai, free, without any disturbance.

Student G: Would you say that-- the last two sentences
again [2-3 words]?

SR: If kan is perfect, that function of kan will be
jizai. Jizai is free. No disturbance.

Sho shin means beginner’s mind. If we can keep
beginner’s mind always that is the goal of our practice.
We recited Prajna Paramita Sutra this morning only once.
I think we recited very well, but what will happen to us
if we recite it twice, three times, four times and more?
Then we will easily lose our attitude in reciting --
original attitude in reciting- the sutra. Same thing
will happen to us. For awhile we will keep our
beginner’s mind in your [blank space in transcript]. If
we continue to practice one year, two years, three years
or more we will have some [blank space in transcript]
and we will lose the limitless meaning of the original
mind.

So from this standpoint, the Buddha's teaching is
something more than that-- more than which was just told
by him. It is based on his [1 word] great mind. And that
mind is not just Buddha's mind, but that mind-- the mind
include everything, or big mercy, or big mind, or-- not
only it is big, but also it is very subtle and intuitive
mind.

So from this viewpoint there is no particular teaching.
Particular teaching is just remedy for the people. So
from this viewpoint there is no teaching. Some
particular teaching is not fundamental teaching. So from
this viewpoint there is no teaching. This is actually
means Prajnaparamita Sutra group, like Hannya Shingyo--
this one [probably holding up sutra card]. “No five
skandha or no-- no death or no word [?], no people or no
buddha.” This kind of statement is-- belongs to
Prajnaparamita group. But those two groups is not--
fundamentally it is not different. When we understand
those two groups is not different-- taking su- -- taking
superior viewpoint, that viewpoint is called middle way
or superior way-- the viewpoint of Tendai school.

From this viewpoint, there is flower, there is weeds,
and flowers and weeds is not different. And flowers and
weeds comes out in spite of our discrimination. And our
discrimination is good sometime, but when we attach to
it, it is not good. So everything is, in one hand, it is
good, on the other, it is bad. So both is right and both
is not right. This is the third viewpoint. This is
framework of whole Buddhism.

Buddha is said to be the supreme world honored one.
There are many names for him. We have ten names for
Buddha. By Buddha we do not mean just Shakyamuni Buddha.
At the same time we mean various Buddhas. So sometimes
we say the Buddhas in the three periods of time: past,
future and present. Namu sanze Shobutsu, we say: I take
refuge in all Buddhas in the three worlds. Namu is to
take refuge. Sanze means the three worlds. Shobutsu
means all the Buddhas, or we say, Ji ho san shi I shi hu.
Ji ho means ten directions. San shi means three worlds.
I shi means all. Hu means Buddha. Ji ho san shi I shi hu,
shi son bu sa mo ko sa means: Shi san is the supreme
one, bu sa is Bosatsu, that's bodhisattva. Mo ko sa is
great Bodhisattvas. That is actually Buddha, Dharma, and
Sangha. Dharma is mo ko ho ja ho ro mi. Moko is maha or
moka: great. Ho ja ho ro mi is Prajna Paramita. That is
the teaching. So when we say ji ho san shi I shi hu, shi
son bu sa mo ko sa, mo ko ho ja ho ro mi, that means
that we are taking refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.
That is why we say: Ji ho san shi I shi hu. That is the
old Chinese pronunciation, but the meaning is the same.

(Note from Brian Fikes: The first portion of this
lecture was not recorded. This is the first [sic]1
in a series of [three] lectures on the Genjokoan given
during the sesshin ending the first training period at
Tassajara.)

---------------------------

There are four ways of understanding the relationship of
form and emptiness: form is emptiness, emptiness is
form, form is form, and emptiness is emptiness. “Form is
emptiness” may not be so difficult to understand, but it
will be misunderstood by some advanced, hasty people.
“Yes, form is emptiness. There is no need for us to
attach to some particular thing. Form is emptiness.”
This looks very clear, and this view of life is better
than attaching to some particular form or color, because
in it there are actually many, many views of life. And
this view of nonexistence is deeper than the view of
seeing many things which actually look permanent and
which look like they have some self nature. But as we
explained already, and as you have already understood,
there is no special self nature for anything, and
everything is changing. As long as everything is
changing, nothing is permanent. So this [form is
emptiness] may be a more advanced view of life.

But “emptiness is form” is rather difficult to
understand. The emptiness which is the absolute goal we
will attain, which is enlightenment itself, is form. So
whatever you do is enlightenment itself. This is rather
difficult to understand, or to accept, because you think
emptiness is some unusual thing. Something unusual is
something very common. This is rather difficult to
understand, especially when you practice zazen. Even
though your practice is not perfect, that is
enlightenment. This statement is very difficult to
accept. “No, my practice is not perfect.” But when we
understand form is emptiness, and emptiness is form,
back and forth in this way, and form is form, and
emptiness is emptiness, when emptiness comes, everything
is emptiness, and when form comes, form is form, and we
accept things as it is.

So when we come to the understanding of, “Form is form
and emptiness is emptiness,” there is no problem. This
stage, or this understanding, is what Dogen Zenji means
by, “When the moon is in the water, the water will not
be broken, nor will the moon be wet.” Moon is moon, and
water is water. This is “form is form, emptiness is
emptiness.” But here there is the possibility of the
misunderstanding that there is no need to practice Zen.
“Form is form, and emptiness is emptiness. If this is
true, why do we practice zazen?” You will have this kind
of misunderstanding. But each of the four statements
also includes the other three, so there are four ways of
understanding each statement. If it is not so, it is not
true understanding. So all four statements are actually
the same. Whether you say form is form or emptiness is
emptiness, or form is emptiness, or emptiness is form,
one statement is enough for you. This is true
understanding of Prajnaparamita.

If you are wandering about, forgetting all about your
place, it means you are deluded. You have no idea of
practice, and you are losing your own practice. That is
not our way. We should not put emphasis on our skill or
the result of our work, but on knowing the meaning of
the work more deeply. Then most of the difficulties in
our monastic life will be solved.

Usually what we do is not so difficult. The problems
which follow because of your imperfect understanding of
work are more difficult. You will suffer from the
useless problems, and you will lose the whole monastery.
If the point of your work is lost, it is not a monastery
any more. If you visit a monastery and everything is in
order, the plants and vegetables are healthy, every
place is clean, and the tools are well polished and
sharp, that is sure to be a good monastery. But
polishing your tools or raising your vegetables is not
the main point of your practice. The main point is
whether or not your effort is real practice. When there
is good teaching and good practice, there is good
feeling, and everything will grow. But the purpose is
not just to get larger crops or to have a great amount
of work. So even though you have some special ability,
you will work on something you are not familiar with.
But as long as you have something to work on, you should
do your best in your position.

This is also what Prajnaparamita is. Although it may
look like we are doing ordinary work, if you have right
understanding of our work, the meaning is quite
different.

…

A monastery is not some particular place. Whether you
can make Tassajara a monastery or not is up to you. It
may be even worse than city life even though you are in
Tassajara. But when you have the wisdom of the
Prajnaparamita Sutra, even though you are in San
Francisco, that is the perfect monastery. This point
should be fully understood.

The main point of practice is to listen to your teacher
and to practice zazen. We have you practice zazen and
study the Prajna Paramita Sutra. I someone ask me: What
is Prajna Paramita? I will answer: practice of zazen. If
someone asks again: What is the practice of zazen? I
will answer: To open Buddha’s eating bowl and to take
bath in evening. If someone who understands what I said
right now, come and express your way to me in the form
of question and answer.

...

Question 24: A definition, Roshi. I would like to answer
your question before I ask mine. You say, Prajnaparamita,
same as zazen and same as Buddha's bowl or Buddha's
head. Emptiness is form, form is emptiness. Now I'd like
to ask my question. If we live in suffering, for to live
is to suffer, and we seek Buddha nature, or Buddhahood
to end reincarnation of suffering, Buddha is emptiness,
the Bodhisattva suffers just a little more. Why must we
seek the absolute?

SR: We--understanding what we seek for the absolute is
opposite. Absolute reveal itself as form. When we try to
seek for the absolute, that absolute is not true
absolute because the absolute cannot be object of
training--of practice. If it is object of our training,
that is not absolute any more. So the only way, only
approach to the absolute is through form. That is
Bodhisattva. Through Bodhisattva's practice, the
absolute will reveal itself, and absolute will be on the
back of Bodhisattva. So Bodhisattva is form, and
Bodhisattva is--although it is absolute, but when
Bodhisattva act as Bodhisattva, he is also Buddha. So
actually Bodhisattva and the Buddha is no different. But
whenever we do something, that is form and that is
Bodhisattva. That maybe some other Buddha. So there is
no need to seek for it.

I already explained about Maitreya Buddha when I
explained about the three period-- three period of
Buddhism. And in this occasion, I want to explain this--
all of the Ten Buddhas which we recite [at] mealtime:

Homage to the pure Dharmakaya Vairocana Buddha.

I already explained Vairocana Buddha.

And to the complete Sambhogakaya Vairocana Buddha.

To the numerous Nirmanakaya Shakyamuni Buddha.

To the future Maitreya Buddha.

I explained already Maitreya Buddha.

To all buddhas, past, present and future all over the
world.

To the Mahayana Saddharmapundarika Sutra.

To the great Manjushri Bodhisattva.

To the Mahayana Samantabhadra Bodhisattva.

To the great compassionate Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva.

To the many bodhisattvas, mahasattvas.

To the Mahaprajnaparamita.

Here we have complete teaching of Buddha. Dharmakaya
Buddha, Sambhogakaya Buddha, Nirmanakaya Buddha. This is
Buddha. And here we have Mahayana bodhisattvas. And we
have also the Mahayana Mahaprajnaparamita. This is the
teaching. So we have here Buddha and sangha and dharma.
So to recite those names actually-- if you recite those
names with deeper understanding, it means you are
repeating, you are practicing the Buddha's way.

Q: Roshi, when we chant the Maka [Hannya Haramita] Shin
Gyo, in what sense is there merit? And can we give this
merit to others?

R: Yes, to help. When you become familiar with the Shin
Gyo, what you will do will naturally explain your
understanding, your attitude. Even though you don't
realize it, there is a big difference between the people
who can recite sutras and those who cannot. So, of
course, that you can recite sutras will help others.
From my cabin, when I am resting, I can see out of the
window in front of my sink. Before you enter the
restroom, you bow. And I think you are just doing it,
you know, like this, maybe, because you get accustomed
to it. But I thought, if people saw someone bowing to
that place, what kind of feelings would they have? The
people might not know what it meant, but I think you
would give them some feeling. You just do it, you know.
And that's a very valuable thing. This is the same thing
as reciting the sutra.

Buddha's disciples converted many learned scholars to
Buddhism, like Sariputra, who converted when he saw a
monk walking on the street with a very steady feeling.
So, we say that each one of the 250 characters of the
"Prajna Paramita Sutra" is a bodhisattva, is Buddha.
This is more than just how we understand it. That is
this merit for us and for others.

We say the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path are
teachings for the sravakas, and the Twelve Links of
Causality is a teaching for pratyekas, but according to
recent results of scholarship, Buddha actually taught
both of those teachings without separating them:
sometimes the Four Noble Truths and the holy Eight fold
Path, sometimes the Twelve Links of Causality. And if
you analyze those two teachings, they are two different
versions of the same teaching. What he meant was the
same. So it is no wonder that in this Lotus Sutra those
two teachings are mixed and are supposed to be for the
disciples. Here it says "disciples", but the Chinese
rendering says "the disciples of words [or disciples of
the worlds?]". It looks like sravakas, but it may be
better to say "to the disciples of words". Then the
meaning becomes clearer. It is said that the original
text says "disciples of words", and it includes both
sravakas and pratyeka buddhas.

"...and to the Bodhisattvas he preached the law
connected with the six Perfections, and terminating in
the knowledge of the Omniscient, after the attainment of
supreme, perfect enlightenment." So far the teaching was
for sravakas and pratyekas, and now the teaching is for
the bodhisattvas. For the bodhisattva, Buddha gave the
teaching of the six paramitas. I think I explained them
already. Dana Paramita, bestowing of material and
teaching; Sila Paramita, keeping the precepts; Ksanti
Paramita, the practice of patience; Virya Paramita, zeal
and progress (shoji [?] paramita); Dhyana Paramita, the
practice of meditation; and Prajna Paramita, wisdom
paramita, the power to discern truth or reality.

We have been studying same thing [laughs], you know,
over and over again-- sometime by Prajnaparamita Sutra,
sometime by five ranks, sometime by ten powers. But
actually, that is various explanation of zazen power.
And if you extend our understanding, you will understand
everything in the most meaningful way-- the most
adequate way. That adequate way is called “middle way,”
you know. The most appropriate way. And you will do
something which is necessary when it is necessary, in
the most adequate, appropriate way [laughs]. This is
very difficult, you know. This is very difficult
practice. This is-- someone who can do this kind of
activity, this kind of-- who can observe-- who can do
things in this way is good priest [laughs], good
student.

The earliest Mahayana sutra is supposed to be the small
Prajnaparamita Sutra, or Shobo -- [?]. In that sutra
they do not say “Mahayana” or “Hinayana”. Instead of
using the word “Hinayana”, they use “Shravakayana” or
“people who hear.” I don't know Sanskrit, but sravaka
means “hearer”, or those who studied under Buddha.
“Bodhisattva” means one who studied the Bodhisattva way.
The so-called “Bodhisattva way,” or “Mahayana way,” was
originated by the assembly who met outside of the cave.
The cave was the place where the synod was held to
compile Buddha's teaching. In that cave, all the famous
disciples assembled and compiled the scriptures.

But there were many disciples who did not join that
meeting. They are called daishubu-- I don't know the
Sanskrit word. Daishu means “public,” a more public
assembly. And, of course, they compiled some other
sutras. Maybe the small Prajnaparamita Sutra was
compiled by those people. But even in that sutra, they
do not use shravaka or “Hinayana” or “Mahayana.” At that
time, “Buddhism” meant that which was taught by Buddha,
or which was compiled by those famous disciples. They
were the shravakas, but maybe we should call them the
original Buddhists instead of Hinayanists.

It looks like there is Hinayana and Mahayana, but it is
not so. All those Prajnaparamita Sutras are more like
Mahayana, so they are all attributed to Shariputra, who
was a great disciple of Buddha. He was actually both
[Hinayana and Mahayana?]. His understanding was wider
and deeper than the rest of the disciples, so all the
sutras are attributed to him. If we say, “Shariputra
told this story,” it is more like traditional Buddhism.

And this is-- in temple at end of the year we have
ceremony to read Prajnaparamita Sutra-- 600 volumes of
Prajnaparamita Sutra. But actually we cannot read 600
pages of sutra, so the priest conducting the ceremony
read one-- one volume of the 600 sutras. Then we have
one volume, one of 600-- [inaudible]-- just to turn it
instead of reading. And so the most important volume
will be recited by the priest who is conducting, and
we-- and you receive this kind of prayer card from the
temple. That is what we do.

But as Prajnaparamita Sutra it said, “Doesn't,” you
know, “increase, doesn't decrease. It doesn't be
tainted, or it doesn't be-- it will not be pure, or it
will not be impure.” And this is, you know, actually--
there are two ways of listening to the lecture. One is
to listen to it as a exercise of your thinking mind, and
the other is, you know, to know-- to-- to know our
practice precisely, you know. How much we, you know, we
have-- how much freedom we have from thinking mind.

I had, of course, very difficult time at my teacher's
temple. I was too young, you know, to follow the
training of that temple. When I was there, when I
arrived at my teacher's-- my master's temple, one
hundred days of training was going on. There were seven
or eight monks, and they have-- they had their special
training, getting up pretty early and reciting--
practicing zazen, reciting sutra.

At that time I saw famous a Zen master-- Oka Sotan-- and
his disciple Oka Kyugaku,18
and those famous teachers were there. I was fortunate to
see them, even though I-- I didn't know they were so
famous. But training was very strict.

The-- Oka Sotan Roshi was a-- did not become a
archbishop, but under him we have many noted scholars
and monks and Zen masters. He is, maybe, the-- one of
the most important person in our Soto history in Meiji
period. Yasutani Roshi's, you know, grand-teacher is Oka
Roshi. And my-- of course, my master's teacher is Oka
Roshi. And Eto [Sokuo]-- Professor Eto's teacher was Oka
Roshi. And there is numberless powerful teacher under
him-- appeared under him. So I think I was lucky to be
there. And I was encouraged by-- by them.

But difficult thing is to get up-- as I get up. Although
they didn't say “You should get up,” because I was so
young-- so they-- they didn't say “You should get up.”
But I tried to get up anyway. Sometime I was too sleepy,
so [laughs] I was listening to their reciting sutra in
bed, you know: Kanjizai Bosatsu -- [laughs] That is--
was-- that is the first sutra I learned by heart, you
know [laughs, laughter]: Kan ji zai bo satsu gyo Hanya
Haramita.

It is quite easy to recite sutra if you listen to it
when you are quite young. You don't need any
instruction, as you haven't [laughs], you know-- you
don't-- you don't have-- without telling you how to
recite Prajnaparamita Sutra, almost all of you can
recite it.

The Hinayana teaching, in one word, [is] the teaching
which-- Hinayana teaching in one word, we say, in
Japanese, Sanzejitsu-u-hottai-gou. It means that: sanze
is three [worlds]-- past, present, and future is sanze.
And hottai is the teachings-- teachings analyzed our
mind and-- our mind and body, or subjective world and
objective world in various way, like five skandha, you
know, five skandha, or-- do you know the teaching of
five skandha? In Prajnaparamita [it] said, “Five skandha
is empty-- are empty.” That five skandha or six mind, or
seventh mind, or eighth mind-- that is how they analyzed
our subjective and objective world. And those, you know,
elements were called dharma. And, in China, they counted
in 75 or 100. And those, you know, elements supposed to
be some-- [are] supposed to be substantial things. The
Hinayana students thought in that way. And it is always
exist in that way.

But, you know, it is-- originally, you know, those
elements were result of the-- result of our analyze, you
know. We-- they analyze our mind-- how we-- our mind
works, you know. And they counted up the-- in 75 [dharmas]
or something like that.

As you know, you know, Buddha's teaching originally--
the most important teaching for Buddhist is-- everything
changes is the most important teaching [laughs]. It is
rather difficult, maybe, but if you hear it over and
over again, naturally you will understand-- eventually
you will understand. Everything changes is the
fundamental teaching of Buddhism, as you know. Nothing
has self-nature. But when conservative Theravada
students [were] interested in more and more analyzing
Buddha's teaching, and trying to authorize his teaching
[as] something which was given to them, and because the
teaching are something valuable, they wanted to protect
it. While they are doing-- making effort in that way,
they-- after all those effort, they set up something
which does not change [laughs], you know-- teaching--
teaching does not change! Teaching-- “dharma” mean
sometime “teaching,” and sometime “various being,” and
it-- it sometime it means “various element produced by
analyze.” And they-- they put-- they s- -- after all
they said, those teaching does not change, and, at the
same time, those elements which teaching denote does not
change. And there is actually some elements-- some
entity.

But that is not anymore true, you know. That is not
true. We say “mind,” but where is mind? [Laughs.] Mind
is not-- is not some substantial thing. We say “eyes,”
you know. Eyes-- when we-- when I was learning
psychology, we started to learn how our-- it was like
physics, you know. Teacher draw, you know, what do you--
what do you call it-- “eye”?

Student: Eyeball?

SR: Hmm? No. This.

Student: [Unclear]?

SR: Round one [laughs]. Eyebulb? [Laughs.]

Students: [Several suggestions at once.]

SR: Eyeball? Eyeball is like [laughs, laughter]. Nerve--
the-- he, you know, draw nerves. This connect to brain,
you know-- something like that [laughs]. But we say
“eyes,” you know. “Eyes” is actually a part of skin
[laughs]. And nose is also a part of skin. And ears, to,
you know. So you may say, “This is eyes,” you know. But
strictly speaking, all those eyes and nose and mouth and
everything is part of our skin. Even our tongue is a
part of skin. But we tentatively, for convenience sake,
[say] “This is tummy; this is eye; this is nose.” That's
all, you know.

So Buddha said [laughs], “There is no eyes.” No such
thing as eyes. Tentatively, you know, this part of skin
you may call it-- call them “eye.” This part is nose.
And this part is ear. Actually, we-- we have, you know,
nose and mouth and everything, but it is not any
particular thing. There is some difference. So we-- we--
we-- we may say, “There is eyes,” but at the same time,
even though it is different from other part, but
originally it is a part of it. There is no borderline
between your nose and eyes or ears. From where [laughs]
is it, you know, belongs to ear? And from where your
nose start? No one knows. Maybe someone may say “from
here” [laughs], someone may say “from here.” All your
way from your tummy to-- it will come to here.

Student A: What-- what smells when you [1-2 words
unclear]?

SR: That is function-- function of the-- some particular
part of skin [laughs, laughter].

Student B: [Entire question unclear.]

SR: Skin.

Student: Skin.

SR: I'm just-- right now I'm-- maybe you can hear it as
a-- a kind of joke. But it is true, you know. We
understand, you know, our-- in Mahayana teaching, we
understand things from various angle, and standpoint we
take is very free, you know. This way and that way.
Someone-- if someone say yes, someone say no. And yes
and no they discussed until yes and no become same. That
is more Mahayana way.

When I was-- when I was studying at Komazawa
[University], I was-- at that time I was studying, you
know, [with] Takada. Professor Takada taught us
education-- what is formal education and what is real
education. And his, you know, understanding of formal
education is opposite, you know, to-- for an instance,
to read scripture without anything-- without knowing
what it is, like you recite Prajnaparamita Sutra. That
is real, you know, approach-- real education. And to,
you know, to explain what is the meaning of the sutra
and let them understand what it is-- is according to
him, that is formal-- or that formal education he says.
[Laughs].

My master, you know, for an instance, had-- didn't have
so many students. But he did not give me any suggestion
[laughs], and he didn't give us any, you know, lecture.
What he did was-- when he become impatient he scolded
us, that's all [laughs, laughter]-- only when he become
impatient. So we, you know, we liked his scolding voice
very much because we-- we, you know, we know immediately
what I should-- we should do.

It is very embarrassing, you know, to-- to be with him
without [laughs] knowing what to do, especially when we
visit someone’s home, you know. For an instance, when we
have-- when we visit to observe memorial service for
someone, you know, and when many visitors are there
following him without knowing what to do [laughing]:
where to sit, how to recite sutra, or how to hit bell,
you know. Anyway in front of us there-- there is-- there
were bell or mokugyo, you know, although we don't know
what to do with it [laughs, laughter]. And, you know, if
we don't know, you know, how to start, how to say,
“Maka-hannya-haramita-shin-gyo,” he himself will start
it [laughs]: “Maka-hannya-haramita-shin-gyo,” he says,
you know, he started, and look at us [laughs, laughter].
“What are you doing?!” We don't know how to, you know,
manage bell or mokugyo. And if I don't he [probably
gestures] [laughs, laughter]-- very impulsive, you know.
If no one watching us, it-- it is-- if it is only, you
know, my teacher-- our teacher and us, it is all right.
Between us, that is usual routine, so it was all right.
But if many people are watching us, you know, it is very
embarrassing. But he didn't mind at all [laughs,
laughter]. If I can-- if we cannot do it: “Give me bell
and mokugyo!” He hit by [probably gesturing [laughing]--
just sitting behind him.

So here, you know, this five characters [Reigen myoni
kottari] means ri, which is beyond words, something
which is stainless. In Prajnaparamita Sutra, [it says]
“no taste, no,” you know, “no eyes, no,” you know,
“ears, no nose,” you know. That is actually this one
[the character ri].

This morning you repeated Prajnaparamita Sutra three
times. That is very encouraging. We should repeat, you
know-- for ourselves we should, I think, practice zazen
with silence, with calmness of our mind, with empty
mind. But maybe for others, you know, let them know what
is Prajnaparamita Sutra-- what does it mean to us, over
and over again, until they understand what is
Prajnaparamita Sutra-- and how important it is to
practice zazen for us, for human being. It is our
practice now. It cannot be just for Zen Buddhists. It
should be for all human being. And this is not religion
any more; this is something we should do. Even though it
may be too late, but we should try our best. If we
really awake-- if you-- we are really awaken, it cannot
be too late. I think we must have more positive, you
know, practice too for people. Let us sit with people
and let us recite Prajnaparamita Sutra with all human
being.

Now you are listening to my lecture; or you may, to
study Buddhism, you will read many books. The books you
read is not Buddhism itself but explanation of this, you
know, truth. “Form is emptiness; emptiness is form.” If
we explain it like this, it is Prajnaparamita groups--
study of Prajnaparamita group-- sutra of Prajnaparamita
group. If we put emphasis on how to be buddha, why we
are buddha, then that is study of Lotus Sutra. What is
the-- if we study koan, what do we study? What you study
by koan is what is the relationship between our practice
and the reality. How we, you know-- why we-- how we have
a glance of the truth or enlightenment or Buddha, which
is always one, which is not dividable, which cannot be
explained in words. That is, you know, how you study
koan. Through koan, or through koan practice, you will
have a glance of the truth. “Oh, this is reality!” That
is koan practice. Whatever you say, whatever you write,
it is a kind of way-- it is one of the way to put the
reality into words. If you are an artist, what you work
on is how to, you know, convey your understanding of the
truth.

Whatever you have in your mind, you shouldn’t be curious
about it. “What does it mean? I had a wonderful
experience in my zazen.” Or: “I-- I had many images of
Buddha in my zazen. What does it mean? Oh! [Laughs,
laughter.] Where-- where do they come from?” That is not
zazen, you know, even though various snakes or, you
know, spider-- black spider come: “Oh, that is black
spider-- spider. And that is snake.” In that way, if you
sit, it means you are sitting in dark room. You see but
you don’t see. You are not bothered by it. That is to
sit in dark room. Even though you see, you don’t see.
Okay? That is true. Actually such a dragon or snake
doesn’t exist, you know, doesn’t come; but you think it
come. It is okay to think, to see various image in your
zazen. It’s okay. It means that something wrong with
your breathing or something. That is why you see some
fantasy in your practice. But you shouldn’t be curious
about it. That is to sit in darkness. It is emptiness,
emptiness of your mind.

We-- we talked about this kind of thing from various
way, for an instance Prajnaparamita Sutra: “Form is
emptiness; emptiness is form.” Emptiness is dark room.
And dark room there is form-- various form. But at the
same time it should be empty. It is tentative color or
form of big being.

It looks like I am always talking about some philosophy.
But philosophy-- it is not philosophy; it is actual
practice of each one of us. I am talking about your
practice not-- not just the philosophy. It may be
philosophy, but-- it should be-- but why we think--
observe things in that way is because we have experience
of-- actual experience of this kind of philosophy. It is
not just, you know, talk but actual experience of our
practice. So it means that you must practice zazen
[laughs], in short, with right understanding. Or else
you be lost!

Student D: Roshi, often when I'm chanting [2-4 words]
I'm sitting zazen, when it [6-8 words] particularly the
Heart Sutra in English. And it started out different--
the meaning of the words. Is this thinking of the
meaning of the words [6-8 words]?

SR: Meaning of the words-- yeah, if you chant in
English, naturally, you know, you will think of-- think
about the meaning too. But it is not actually-- it is
something which-- which we-- appears or which come to
your mind immediately. You see the characters, or
immediately you say something. It is not just sound.

The Prajnaparamita Sutra is-- the meaning of the sutra
is about emptiness, you know. So each word suggest [to]
you the reality of the emptiness. So, especially when
you chant Prajnaparamita Sutra, it is just words which
suggest [to] you the emptiness. It is like you cross
your legs, and to have your mudra, and you take
breathing. Same thing.

Maybe before you understand the meaning of the sutra,
you know, then you may be wondering in your mind, “What
does it mean?” Then that is not, you know, zazen. That
is reading. Do you understand? The chanting sutra is
something which you can do after you know the meaning.
It is not reading. It is expressing your understanding
through words. Do you understand the difference?