Post by glennron on Apr 18, 2013 21:07:26 GMT -5

Schedules were announced today so I figure it's as good a time as any to start up a new thread. B*tch about your favorite team's schedule or start to get giddy thinking about how many times Mike Mayock will talk about players explosive get off's on draft night.

Packers play at NYG for third consecutive year. I can't get rid of that god damn team.

Post by Flanz on Apr 18, 2013 21:38:05 GMT -5

Also, Giants schedule looks good minus the game @ Chicago. We have a 56 day stretch where we won't have to board an airplane. And when the Seahawks come to town, it will be a 1pm Sunday game the week after they play @ 49ers. Home game vs. the Skins to finish it out.

My roommate (Giants fan) just said "8-8 at best, go into Week 16 needing to win out for the final Wildcard spot."

Post by Flanz on Apr 18, 2013 21:46:12 GMT -5

My roommate (Giants fan) just said "8-8 at best, go into Week 16 needing to win out for the final Wildcard spot."

That's far too pessimistic. Our schedule is much better than it was the last 2 years. If we can go 3-3 in our first 6 games, I think 9-7 would be an underwhelming year. I expect 10-6. I'd put the over/under at 9.5 wins.

He's also probably not considering the fact that Jerry Reese still has 7 shots at finding a difference maker (or two or three) in the draft.

They won 8 games last year and haven't gotten better via FA, with their best weapon not signing his tender. How are they primed to win more games than last year?

Post by pmo125 on Apr 19, 2013 7:21:03 GMT -5

I'm sure it's hard in them, but they only have to do it once a season. Yeah you only get 3 days to prepare yourself for the game, but then you get 9 or 10 days after that. They get payed enough that they can suck it up and get through it.

Post by Flanz on Apr 19, 2013 7:39:54 GMT -5

Unless Cruz signs an offer sheet that he's not getting by the deadline (tomorrow), he will be suiting up for the Giants this year. We have 4 million left in cap after counting for the draft (on top of his $2.9 million tender). That's enough money for the first year of his multi-year extension that he will sign. He's a slot receiver, and he'll make slightly more than Welker/Amendola's yearly average when all is said and done.

We have a better TE for Eli (reliable underneath option who had 4th most receptions among TEs last year). I prefer David Wilson as the lead back since he actually has bones in his feet. Rueben Randle is going to be one of the best #3 receivers in the league now that Hixon is out of the way. We improved our D-line via free agency (my friends here in Philly openly state that they aren't happy we got Cullen Jenkins, who was just a poor system fit in Philly). Kiwanuka is back in the DE rotation. Prince Amukamara and Jayron Hosley are both a year older. We picked up Dan Connor to play MLB, who, despite being Dan Connor, is better than Chase Blackburn.

And we still have the draft ahead of us.

I know its a foreign concept - especially for us Mets fans - but the Giants actually improve just via their young guys growing skill-wise. Can't wait to see the continued evolution of Wilson, JPP, Randle, Amukamara, Hosley.

Oh, lord. The Giants already offered Cruz a deal worth $7m a year, which he turned down. That's pretty much exactly his tender + remaining cap space. He's your best receiver, but he plays predominantly on the outside, not the slot. He wants that $10m/year for elite receivers and he's making it known by skipping "involuntary" workouts.

You downgraded at TE. Bennett is one of the best all-around TEs in the game and Myers is the worst blocking TE that plays significant snaps. He makes Dustin Keller look like Gronk in that regard, and while he is a better receiver, he had the same amount of drops as Bennett did last year. If anything, it's a lateral move. And having the 4th most receptions as a TE is less impressive when you realize he came from a team so devoid of WR talent that Carson Palmer had no choice but to pound him the football. He averaged less y/c, had less TD's and again..the run blocking. You'll miss Bennett even if you don't realize it.

Randle wasn't blocked by Hixon, he didn't take a job the team wanted to give him. The same thing happened with Stephen Hill on the Jets, both teams put them in position to earn significant roles, and both squandered the opportunity. They're young receivers so they can bounce back, but calling him "one of the best #3 receivers in the league" when he doesn't have 300 yards receiving in his career is just blatant homerism. It's the offseason, so you're entitled to it, but let's be honest...a solid 800 yard season from him would be a huge success.

Jenkins is a one-trick pony. He will get utterly dominated in the run game, and be solid as a pass rusher. He was a "poor fit" because he was making WAY too much money and didn't do anything besides try to get sacks. He's a part-time player, nothing more.

"Better than Chase Blackburn" isn't saying much of anything, but Connor should improve the run defense. Connor is a solid 2-down LB who gets torched in the passing game, so hopefully he's not relied on in nickel situations.

Believe it or not, the Jets have young guys too, and the best young guy of the whole group, IMO, in Muhammad Wilkerson. The Giants are a team that has missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years (yes, SB, I know), so it's not like they're an overly talented roster. Their team has a lot of holes and their 2nd half schedule is brutal, I'd happily take the under on that 9.5 and wouldn't think twice about it. 10 wins isn't happening for either NY team in 2014.

FWIW, I'd take Wilkshake Bumaye, Austin Howard, Quinton Coples, Jeremy Kerley and Hill over that group of 5 for the Gmen, and that's based solely off of advanced stats and the fact Wilkshake is about to blow the f*ck up.

And Hosley sucked last year, why are you including him at all? QB's had a 121 QB rating throwing at him.

Post by Flanz on Apr 19, 2013 8:28:54 GMT -5

Great, I'm aware that play happened, that doesn't change the fact he played predominantly on the outside last year, which means he's not a slot receiver anymore.

He played more snaps on the outside than in the slot in at least 11 games last year. He's a WR who lines up in the slot at times, he's not a slot receiver. He was almost solely in the slot in his first 2 seasons, which is why your 3-year average is around 70%.

I'm glad you found OTC (I have followed Jason since he only did the Jets cap situation about 5 years ago). It's a great site, but Jason writes his articles presenting the bare-minimum value, and that is not what most elite players sign for. You overpay elite players slightly in order to keep them. It's why you pay Eli Manning $20m a year before any other QB in the league is making that much.

I like how out of everything I said you picked out my slot receiver comment to disagree with. I think that says quite a bit.

Post by Flanz on Apr 19, 2013 8:42:35 GMT -5

Where does PFF say that? That's a 3-year average, he played slot the entire '11 season and his limited reps in '10. Last year he played a lot on the outside, and Randle is only an inch taller than Cruz, meaning they're going to flip them around a lot.

Let me phrase it like this:

On a 2 WR set, Cruz is on the sideline?

And please point out all my ignorance, I'd like to see where you disagree with my objective assessment of your team.

Post by jakicker on Apr 19, 2013 9:37:21 GMT -5

I know there is a fair amount of Falcons fans on here, so are y'all as excited as we are for the week one rivalry match? I have to say, it being Coach Payton's first game back from suspension in the Dome on opening weekend is going to give us a good bit of momentum.

Post by Flanz on Apr 19, 2013 9:50:46 GMT -5

The only question is whether he'll play out his $2.9 million tender and hit FA next year or if he'll take the guaranteed $20 million we offered him at $7 million per year. [Note: I'm sure I just jinxed myself and the Patriots are going to swoop in last second and steal him from us - f*ck].

I never said Cruz wouldn't be a Giant, but a holdout is a real possibility. This is 2 years in a row he's made his displeasure with his contract known. He will be a Giant, he might just not play for them until Week 10, the last week they can come back and still get that accrued season (V-Jax and Mankins both did this).

In terms of TE, I agree it will likely end up being a lateral move on the whole. The reason I prefer Myers to Bennett is because (1) Bennet was hurt a lot last year, (2) Bennett dropped A LOT of key passes, especially in the end zone last year, (3) Myers doesn't drop passes, (4) Despite Myers not being a great blocker, we have Bear Pascoe who is good at that, plus we have some of the best line and TE coaches in the NFL - See: Giants miraculously having a respectable o-line and TE every year despite them usually being no names. I bet Myers improves, like every TE does when they come to the NYG.

1- Myers played 5 more snaps/game than Bennet. 2- He had the same amount of drops as Bennet. 3- See previous comment. 4- Look to the Jets to see what happens when you have a blocking TE and a receiving TE (hint: the defense's job is made easier).

And the Giants don't have a respectable line, their line has been horrible 2 years running, but Eli is so ridiculously good under pressure (seriously, it's outrageous that he doesn't get sacked 10 times a game) that he covers for them. David Diehl is the worst OL in football, yet he starts at the most important OL position? That's a nightmare.

In terms of Randle, he was being blocked by Hixon because Coughlin hates to play rookies. He's notorious for that. Watching the guy play, he was awesome any time he was on the field. He just didn't get enough reps b/c Coughlin is an old fart.

You're going to blame the 2-time SB winning coach and not the WR who couldn't beat out a journeyman-level veteran? Hill got replaced by Chaz Schilens, Randle couldn't beat out Hixon and took a while to take reps from him. Neither of those situations are on anyone except the receivers themselves. But, as I already stated, they're young and can still improve. Acting like it's a given isn't logical, though. WR's show promise and fizzle out every year.

In terms of Cullen Jenkins - he's an improvement because pressure from the inside is exactly what we were missing last year. We have the big stopper in Linval Joseph, but a big reason why Tuck and JPP were neutralized last year is because there was no pressure up the middle. Jenkins will fix that problem. I'm excited.

A big reason why Tuck was neutralized last year is because he's now old and no longer an elite player. Let me ask you this: do you think Antonio Garay is on the same level as Jenkins? The Jets signed him for under a million and over the past 3 years he's a more productive interior rusher than Jenkins. You're latching onto a name, but there are plenty of guys who can rush on the inside. It will probably improve your pass rush slightly, but you need someone who can take double teams from JPP and Jenkins isn't that player. He'll improve it, the same way Garay will help improve the Jets' interior rush, but these aren't guys that are influencing W/L records or anything. They're complementary players.

Finally, you agreed with me on Connor - since pretty much any competent MLB will be an improvement on Blackburn.

I'm honestly surprised you guys didn't sign Bart Scott. He's WAY better than Connor against the run and since both suck against the pass it would be a draw in that regard. He would have been perfect for you guys, IMO.

Oh, and your attempt to talk up the Jets: Wilkerson is a beast, Kerley is a nice player. Who's Bumaye?

"Ali bumaye" is what people were chanting over and over at the Muhammad Ali/George Foreman fight in Zaire, which translates to "Ali - kill him!" It's basically a joke and it works because Wilkshake's real name is "Muhammad."

Kerley will finally get to play an entire season in the slot, if they have a QB to throw accurate passes to him he'll have a huge season.

Howard is better than any OL you have, not being a jerk it's simply the truth. Coples is starting, so it's time to see what Rex saw working him out last offseason in Carolina.

Hill could sort it out, or be a disaster. Still have no idea about him.

Post by Flanz on Apr 19, 2013 9:54:08 GMT -5

And regardless of all this shiz, the original point you made is that the Giants' ceiling is going 8-8 and maybe a wild card. That's absurd considering we haven't had a losing season since 2004. We won 9 games last year with one of the toughest schedules in the league. And we are better, if not the same. The only significant player we lost is Ahmad Bradshaw - and David Wilson is better anyway.

Post by Dave Maynar on Apr 19, 2013 10:41:49 GMT -5

Haha. I have a friend that lives down there. All of his comments on facebook throughout the season are like he hatewatches the Phins. Such excitement at the beginning and such bitter disappointment by the end.

Post by Flanz on Apr 19, 2013 11:12:25 GMT -5

Ok, so (1) You agree Cruz will probably be a Giant. (2) You agree Myers is at least a wash on Bennett. (3) You didn't deny Cullen will improve our D-line, so I'll assume you agree. (4) You agree Connor is an upgrade.(5) You clearly don't know anything about Coughlin's policy re: rookies, but that's OK since you're not a Giants fan.

Also, Diehl is not our LT. William Beatty is. (He also graded out as the 8th best LT in the NFL as per Pro Football Focus). Not like "facts" have ever stopped you before.

Ugh.

Bennett is better than Myers. I don't know how much clearer I can make that. He's a comparable receiver and the best blocking TE in the league.

Cullen will improve one aspect of your DL, and it's not the aspect that hurt you last year. You're overpaying a role player, poor allocation of funds. I would not have done that deal.

I agree Connor is an upgrade over the worst MLB in the league, but Connor still isn't good. That's a position of need still.

I know all about Coughlin, he phases rookies into the lineups and they play more down the stretch after they've proven themselves. The thing is, that's not what happened with Randle, which indicates he was not impressing Coughlin. Randle played less than 20 snaps the last four weeks, and that number would be a lot lower if Nicks wasn't hurt and played in the final game (where Randle played 55 snaps). Randle didn't impress Coughlin, and it's not solely because he's a rookie, it's because he has work. No shame in that, but you're calling him a top 3rd receiver and he has minimal experience. I'm not saying he won't eventually be that, I'm saying it's too early to make that prediction. See how he does in a primary role first.

I confused Beatty and Locklear, who Diehl played over for some inexplicable reason. Diehl's penciled in to start at RT, a disaster of almost-equal proportions. The guy simply isn't a starting OL and starting him is a huge hole heading into the season. I can't believe Giants fans haven't started to get pissed over the preferential treatment that guy gets, if he was on any other team he'd probably have been cut by now.

Post by shmohawk on Apr 19, 2013 11:17:32 GMT -5

And regardless of all this shiz, the original point you made is that the Giants' ceiling is going 8-8 and maybe a wild card. That's absurd considering we haven't had a losing season since 2004. We won 9 games last year with one of the toughest schedules in the league. And we are better, if not the same. The only significant player we lost is Ahmad Bradshaw - and David Wilson is better anyway.

Post by Pops on Apr 19, 2013 11:35:08 GMT -5

New idea for a sports thread: One in which 75% of the discussion can't revolve around New York sports teams.

Damn - I was thinking the same thing this morning - maybe a NY-only sports thread (subtitled "Jimmyroo and Flanzo almost kiss like they do on the soap operas after they throw stuff at each other for ten minutes")

Post by Pops on Apr 19, 2013 11:37:14 GMT -5

I am very, very nervous about his return. Mostly because the rest of the team is much worse than our local fan base realizes (as usual) and the thinking is that a healthy RGIII will cure everything. We'll see.

Post by shmohawk on Apr 19, 2013 11:40:55 GMT -5

I hate that video so much. I was watching that game at a Vegas sports book. Needless to say, I entered a drunken tailspin that night after that happened. Washington was absolutely in control of that game before he went down.

Washington's offseason has been fairly similar to NY. They've managed to retain everyone worth retaining from the 2012 team except Lorenzo Alexander. Fred Davis, Adam Carricker and Brian Orakpo will be returning from season-ending injuries, and Madoodoo Williams is gone at safety (addition by subtraction). However, no 1st round pick due to the Bob Griff trade.