“We will restore science to its rightful place and wield
technology’s wonders to raise health care’s quality…”

“We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus,
and nonbelievers. We are shaped by every language and culture,
drawn from every end of this Earth.”

That Obama seems like he will not prosecute the torturers,
that means that they get away with it. That is horrible,
especially from a lawyer. I am as supportive as I am for all
of our representatives, supporting them to do the right thing,
but I have a mixed opinion of President Obama.

Just my usual rant that Humanists are equated with atheism, that is the association that most limits H’s awakening.

That is sort of like ranting about youth for being young (except that atheism is a choice). Atheism is just a descriptive word, not a philosophy. Humanism is more of a philosophy. You can be both an atheist and humanist, or a humanist with out being atheist.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Just my usual rant that Humanists are equated with atheism, that is the association that most limits H’s awakening.

That is sort of like ranting about youth for being young (except that atheism is a choice). Atheism is just a descriptive word, not a philosophy. Humanism is more of a philosophy. You can be both an atheist and humanist, or a humanist with out being atheist.

Most respectfully I disagree. They are not different elements of the same thing. One can be an atheist without being a Humanist, and a Humanist without being an atheist.

Just curious, asanta, when you wrote that, how were you defining the terms?

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I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

I agree, asanta. I think, IF someone is a believer like Spong is, they can be a humanist too. All too often he says and writes things that sound very much like humanism, except, like there is humanistic Judaism, I would call his philosophy more like Christian humanism and not necessarily Humanism.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

Just my usual rant that Humanists are equated with atheism, that is the association that most limits H’s awakening.

That is sort of like ranting about youth for being young (except that atheism is a choice). Atheism is just a descriptive word, not a philosophy. Humanism is more of a philosophy. You can be both an atheist and humanist, or a humanist with out being atheist.

Most respectfully I disagree. They are not different elements of the same thing. One can be an atheist without being a Humanist, and a Humanist without being an atheist.

Just curious, asanta, when you wrote that, how were you defining the terms?

I may have not been clear, ATHEIST is just a descriptive word, literally a-theist. I don’t understand what atheism has to do with a persons reluctance to embrace HUMANISM. Otherwise, we are both saying the same thing.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

I didn’t weigh in on this thread because asanta said precisely what I would have said, and did so with precision, accuracy and clarity. There is a Religious Humanist association, just as there is an Atheist United organzation. The two terms, atheist and humanist have about as much to do with each other as do the color red, and the odor of cinnamon. Just because one can buy Red Hots doesn’t mean we must connect the two characteristics. I know some atheists who are quite far from having a humanist philosophy, and as Mriana pointed out, Bishop Spong is obviously not an atheist, but just as clearly he has a humanist outlook on life.

Thank you for your response. I must strongly disagree. To my thinking, experience and Humanist training being a non-theist is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being a Humanist. Being a Humanist involves understanding and coming to grips with the human condition, our strengths and weaknesses. Accepting us for who we are and not as we would like ourselves to be. It further seeks to improve our condition through scientific (naturalistic) means, understandings, and actions. Yes, there are people who are humanitarian but are not Humanist, the two must not be confused. The term “Christian Humanist” is an oxymoron as is any other theistic or spiritual modifier. One can certainly be a scientific Humanist but that is redundant. One can be a “Religious Humanist” which typifies Humanists who like community - a perfectly reasonable and human emotion and activity.

Your view was echoed by the head of the AHA a few years ago when I had a conversation with him. He felt that they had a proprietary interest in the word, however, they, unlike the Secular Humanists, accept religious or even Christian Humanists. I disagreed and said pretty much what Asanta said, that Humanism is a philosophy focused on humane behavior while atheism is a stance believing the lack of existence of a god. One can be one, the other, both or neither. However, I reject the necessary connection that some want to impose on the two words and concepts.