Kick update

This is a long shot but if you are gonna update kick again, please consider removing the stamina drain too. I think its fair to say that gaining the initiative is enough of a bonus for the mechanic.

The stamina drain on kick is one of them bizarre design decisions thats been in the game for too long. The stamina drain has had a negative knock on effect on many aspects of the game, most of all the 1v1 part of the game.

Effect on shield 1v1
Kick stamina drain + its initiative allows for a almost continuous stamina drain on a already gimped stamina
pool for shield, and so has removed the viability of a shield in a 1v1 setting (the only place shield was ever viable) combining kick with the feint to parry mechanic in a 1v1 setting renders a whole way of playing (a shield) completely useless because of the continuous stamina drain. The last patch was the final nail in the coffin for shield play in a 1v1 because of the kick reach extension which allowed for even easier kicks to hit.

Please give the stamina drain and the reach on kick some careful consideration next patch.

2.4k hours played and still here since launch, at least pretend to respect your oldest community members and humor me with a response

Wait are talking the stamina drain for the player doing the kick or the shield knight receiving the kick? Here is the thing. Unless the kicker is playing one of a few super fast weapons, the shield knight still can raise the shield after a kick unless they have run of of stam to begin with. In that case the shield knight is either too defensive or has held the shield up too long. This is really player stamina management. With the increased distance of the kick, the kicker is now further away and loses distance in trying to take advantage of the lowered shield, so again the kicker loses specially if they are playing a slow weapon and cannot reach the stunned shield knight in time. Again it is the players stamina management when playing a shield knight.

Now if you are talking the stamina punishment from a kick on the knight, I would say that that is simple balance as there are virtually no weaknesses in playing knight so stamina drain is it’s weakness if not managed properly as you sacrifice stamina for longer protection. The increased range on the kick actually benefits the shield knight as it increases the distance/time it takes for the kicker to take advantage of the kick.

I have always loved the kick and if anything I would like to see a longer stun duration on the heavy kick so that you have time to really take advantage of the shieldwhoreing turtles.

Wait are talking the stamina drain for the player doing the kick or the shield knight receiving the kick? Here is the thing. Unless the kicker is playing one of a few super fast weapons, the shield knight still can raise the shield after a kick unless they have run of of stam to begin with. In that case the shield knight is either too defensive or has held the shield up too long. This is really player stamina management. With the increased distance of the kick, the kicker is now further away and loses distance in trying to take advantage of the lowered shield, so again the kicker loses specially if they are playing a slow weapon and cannot reach the stunned shield knight in time. Again it is the players stamina management when playing a shield knight.

Now if you are talking the stamina punishment from a kick on the knight, I would say that that is simple balance as there are virtually no weaknesses in playing knight so stamina drain is it’s weakness if not managed properly as you sacrifice stamina for longer protection. The increased range on the kick actually benefits the shield knight as it increases the distance/time it takes for the kicker to take advantage of the kick.

I have always loved the kick and if anything I would like to see a longer stun duration on the heavy kick so that you have time to really take advantage of the shieldwhoreing turtles.

I dont have the energy to explain how wrong the details are in your post. I will just leave it at, please take my word on it that I know exactly what Im on talking about and you dont. Dont worry about it. Thanks for replying

Before, i thought kick was balanced, as it was possible to jump over kicks (slightly inconsistently) which added a degree of skill to the mechanic and predicting. The last two updates changing kick made it impossible to jump kicks, and now with sniper range kick is just completely unavoidable. This is a problem for several reasons;

1. Kick causes many bugs, such as getting you stuck where you have to press F yourself to unstick yourself, desync bugs, teleporting after being kick (disorientating) and the fact that you cant block after immediately being kicked (destroying the 1vX aspect of the game which luckily hasnt been exploited this early)

2. Duel meta, even among 2hs, is now just a kick fest because it’s a viable tactic and will leave you with a stamina advantage if you kick someone while they attack

3. Kick is completely unavoidable

I think removing the stam drain can alleviate how broken it is currently, but there are other ways im sure TB can come up with. I personally liked the jumping over kicks aspect, which grants you a free hit if you successfully predict a kick.

Before, i thought kick was balanced, as it was possible to jump over kicks (slightly inconsistently) which added a degree of skill to the mechanic and predicting. The last two updates changing kick made it impossible to jump kicks, and now with sniper range kick is just completely unavoidable. This is a problem for several reasons;

1. Kick causes many bugs, such as getting you stuck where you have to press F yourself to unstick yourself, desync bugs, teleporting after being kick (disorientating) and the fact that you cant block after immediately being kicked (destroying the 1vX aspect of the game which luckily hasnt been exploited this early)

2. Duel meta, even among 2hs, is now just a kick fest because it’s a viable tactic and will leave you with a stamina advantage if you kick someone while they attack

3. Kick is completely unavoidable

I think removing the stam drain can alleviate how broken it is currently, but there are other ways im sure TB can come up with. I personally liked the jumping over kicks aspect, which grants you a free hit if you successfully predict a kick.

4.5k hours on cm:w

bump, honestly though i think reverting the changes will be fine balance wise
also retsnom i literally have no idea what you are talking about, i tried reading your comment like 4 times

Before, i thought kick was balanced, as it was possible to jump over kicks (slightly inconsistently) which added a degree of skill to the mechanic and predicting. The last two updates changing kick made it impossible to jump kicks, and now with sniper range kick is just completely unavoidable. This is a problem for several reasons;

1. Kick causes many bugs, such as getting you stuck where you have to press F yourself to unstick yourself, desync bugs, teleporting after being kick (disorientating) and the fact that you cant block after immediately being kicked (destroying the 1vX aspect of the game which luckily hasnt been exploited this early)

2. Duel meta, even among 2hs, is now just a kick fest because it’s a viable tactic and will leave you with a stamina advantage if you kick someone while they attack

3. Kick is completely unavoidable

I think removing the stam drain can alleviate how broken it is currently, but there are other ways im sure TB can come up with. I personally liked the jumping over kicks aspect, which grants you a free hit if you successfully predict a kick.

Lmao you know whats actually funny, if you think about it kick was always kinda OP mechanic on how it works, but now its evident because everyone is using them a lot.

Here where I play, people say I’m the one who use kicks the most, and its true tbh. I do use and gamble with the kick for as long as I remember, a very good player here was always bothered by how OP kicks are if you use them properly. Especially in vanilla, since its the only thing that flinches mid release, steal initiative and drains stamina, all at the same time. Low risk big reward as I see it.

At the same time it helps you avoid cavemans, you become a kick caveman yourself. Now that kick works, everyone will be kick cavemans tbh. Anyways, b0ckswings fuck with kick gamblers like me. Also not feinting and accelerating the shit out of your attacks. If you manage to foresee a kick coming, you can punish the kicker easily, but if you are not used to fight against someone who uses a lot of kicks, you might get rekt big time because I can keep initiative to myself almost the whole fight, due vanguards reach.

With shields, maybe 1h SoW might be a good answer to this sniper kick of doom.

I think this is just silly. If you dropped the stamina drain, shield knights would be basically invulnerable. There are quite a few really good shield knights and they are already hard to beat. The majority of players hate shields because of lack of vision and not knowing how to play with it correctly.

The game, specially Mercs is already balanced heavy towards knights. The only thing that I would like to see is to have the shield actually be an active shield 100% of the time no matter the location and to have all the shields collision window be more accurate to the size and shape of the shield. So if it is on the back it protects against melee on top of arrows and when simply carried on one arm, that arm being protected.

But I have been kicking, jump kicking and recently doing the reverse back spin kick, since the release of the game when most didnt use it at all. So for a pole arm player I think this is a great development. But if you removed the stamina drain then you have to increase the stun time on a heavy kick.

I’d love to know how many of those complaining about good kicks cry when ‘fantasy stuff’ is introduced. If this game were realistic at all kicks would actually be much more useful than they’ve ever been in Chiv.