rumpelstiltskin:Mocking people who lost their money trading bitcoins sounds like fun. And I could practice my Indian accent. "I am being Rupert from Des Moines. Dez Moyns. How may I be of assist to you today?"

Debeo Summa Credo:Not that I buy into or understand bitcoins, but what does it mean to you to have a currency "backed by the GDP of a country"?

Because it's not just a piece of paper backed by a finite resource such as Gold. IANAE, but the production power and financhial potential of a first world country seems a little more safer a bet than a barter commodity who's only value is what the community itsself places on it, and which encourages hoarding due to it's numerical cap.

Sometimes I prefer going to the call center in person. The equipment there quite often comes in handy. But the important thing is to be precise and clear when you converse with the call center employee in person.

Pumpernickel bread:How the fark do you lose a virtual currency? I don't understand that. I can understand how someone can steal you cash or gold, but this?

They held more virtual currency than the money the currency was worth is how I understand the situation. Suddenly, a lot of that currency "vanished" (read: Ended up in someone else's wallet), and now the bank didn't have funds to pay the virtual currency holders who suddenly wanted to dump their investment and pull their money out in usable national currencies.

hardinparamedic:Debeo Summa Credo: Not that I buy into or understand bitcoins, but what does it mean to you to have a currency "backed by the GDP of a country"?

Because it's not just a piece of paper backed by a finite resource such as Gold. IANAE, but the production power and financhial potential of a first world country seems a little more safer a bet than a barter commodity who's only value is what the community itsself places on it, and which encourages hoarding due to it's numerical cap.

But yeah. I'm still going to point and laugh.

But why does the "productive power and financial potential" of a country give any more value to a fiat currency? If nobody will accept my $20 bill, how do I trade it in for $20 worth of GDP? If i bring it to down to the treasury will Jacob Lew give me some steel and wheat? How much steel and wheat?

I think we both view bitcoins as a "bigger idiot theory" type alternative currency. The only thing that gives them value is the demand of other idiots for them.

But conceptually, the dollar is not dissimilar. It's just that there are alot more "idiots" out there who use dollars and have been using dollars for a very very long time. Therefore we can be much more confident that there will always be a fellow idiot to which to trade our intrinsically worthless dollars to for tangible goods.

The only thing IMO that gives dollar bills a floor value is that the US government can require tax payments to be made in dollars. So by requiring tax payments in these worthless pieces of paper, the government can actually force people to need them, giving them a non-zero value.

To be blunt there's a lot of good opportunities here for smart people to make some honest money. One of the big problems I always had with MtGox was that it took an old-world view on a very new, very alien technology.

"But that one was tiny. It's doesn't count.""What about Mt Gox?""Mount gox is just one site, it doesn't represent a trend!!!""What about other major exchanges having smaller breakins""BITCOINS ARE FOREVER LALALALALA, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SAFE IN REALITY DOESN'T MEAN THE THEORY IS BAD"

Debeo Summa Credo:hardinparamedic: Debeo Summa Credo: Not that I buy into or understand bitcoins, but what does it mean to you to have a currency "backed by the GDP of a country"?

Because it's not just a piece of paper backed by a finite resource such as Gold. IANAE, but the production power and financhial potential of a first world country seems a little more safer a bet than a barter commodity who's only value is what the community itsself places on it, and which encourages hoarding due to it's numerical cap.

But yeah. I'm still going to point and laugh.

But why does the "productive power and financial potential" of a country give any more value to a fiat currency? If nobody will accept my $20 bill, how do I trade it in for $20 worth of GDP? If i bring it to down to the treasury will Jacob Lew give me some steel and wheat? How much steel and wheat?

I think we both view bitcoins as a "bigger idiot theory" type alternative currency. The only thing that gives them value is the demand of other idiots for them.

But conceptually, the dollar is not dissimilar. It's just that there are alot more "idiots" out there who use dollars and have been using dollars for a very very long time. Therefore we can be much more confident that there will always be a fellow idiot to which to trade our intrinsically worthless dollars to for tangible goods.

The only thing IMO that gives dollar bills a floor value is that the US government can require tax payments to be made in dollars. So by requiring tax payments in these worthless pieces of paper, the government can actually force people to need them, giving them a non-zero value.

Yeah but the U.S. Gov't only accepts USD for taxes. That alone is enough to give the currency value. That's much more than what BitCoin has going for it.

Does it tie things together a bit to mention that the heist may have been perpetrated by a government agency? They could discredit competing currency, steal from people supporting it and use the stolen currency for clandestine operations.

Hell, they could have used the proceeds from the first bitcoin theft to buy zero days exploits to pull this one off. Now they've got a self funding continuous attack with far less hard work and without exposing any security weaknesses a three letter agency already knows about.

Agencies that can create Stuxnet or Uroburos could certainly manage this. Wealthy private organizations like the Fed might see value in it too.

Yeah, actually this would be a pretty easy job. Unlike a job for instance explaining to customers why the cable company screwed them, or telling people why their house got repossessed by the bank with one payment left, why the television they bought blew up and no the extended warranty isn't valid for this - times when you actually have sympathy and a little hatred of your company. This is like telling people that their lotto tickets didn't win.

hardinparamedic:But, hey. BitCoins are no different than any other Fiat Currency*, right?

*except for the fact that modern currencies are backed by the GNP of a country.

Well in fairness, Citi DID just announce that its Mexican subsidiary Banamerica was just scammed out of $400 million too, and it too is also being investigated for money laundering, so while Bitcoins are stupid for a lot of reasons, Mt Gox looks no more sleazy or amateurish than the big boys

Magorn:Well in fairness, Citi DID just announce that its Mexican subsidiary Banamerica was just scammed out of $400 million too, and it too is also being investigated for money laundering, so while Bitcoins are stupid for a lot of reasons, Mt Gox looks no more sleazy or amateurish than the big boys

BankOfAmerica: Son, why are you doing this?BitCoin: YOU, ALRIGHT! I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU!

Chagrin:Virtual currency highly involved with the legal drug trade? What's the lifespan of an employee that screws those people over?

These were my first two thoughts when I heard of the Mt Gox theft:When that news hit the wire, I would SO not want to be the bright young cartel member or mob soldier who convinced my boss to stash the family's profits in Bitcoins because they were so safe an untraceable. and then following on the heels of that, the idea that these people are not noted for their forgiving and generous natures, and that whoever DID make off with those had better be goddamn sure they can trust their laundering/fencing operation

rumpelstiltskin:Mocking people who lost their money trading bitcoins sounds like fun. And I could practice my Indian accent. "I am being Rupert from Des Moines. Dez Moyns. How may I be of assist to you today?"