Metroid Other M is the most overhated game on the Wii.

I just want everyone to know that although I don't consider Metroid Other M to be as good as the Prime Trilogy, I still found it to be a great game in its own right and a decent Metroid game at least gameplaywise. Granted the story was poorly told and Samus Aran wasn't the kind of character I expected but none of that ruined the gameplay for me. Gameplaywise I enjoyed Metroid Other M almost as much as Corruption granted it had its flaws but the over all majority of the game I loved Metroid Other m's gameplay. Metroid Other M may have been a letdown by Metroid standards but it's no even close to a bad game let alone the abomination that the idiots on YouTube or the Internet make it out to be.

I think this is the first time I've ever seen the non-word "overhated", so I guess kudos for that.

As for the other M thing, I think much of it comes down to the perceptual contrast principle, aka:

The contrast principle (or contrast effect) says that when you experience two similar things in succession, your perception of the second is influenced by the first.

For example, when you pick up a heavy box and then a light one, the second one will feel lighter than it really is. Or to quote a colorful example from Robert Cialdini’s excellent book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion –

“If we are talking to a beautiful woman at a cocktail party and are then joined by an unattractive one, the second woman will strike us as less attractive than she actually is.”

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It's also the reason salesmen use the trick of "this normally retails for $$$ but today we're selling it for $$", and is the reason 60 degrees F feels warm to most of the US who have been dealing with snow and subzero temperaturs for months but feels cold to people in California used to 80+ degree weather.

The Metroid series has always set an exceptionally high level of quality, from gameplay, level design, art direction, environments, etc. every prior Metroid game has been fantastic and so far above average that average games look bad in comparison. It's true that Other M would be acceptable compared to other games. However, when put up against the expectations of the proven, magnificent lineage that is the Metroid series, "good" or "subpar" just seems like shit because of the perceptual contrast.

It certainly doesn't deserve the amount of hate it's getting nor do I think it's enough to convince Nintendo to kill the franchise.

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No one besides you legitimately believes that Nintendo has shut down the Metroid franchise

O/T: The majority of the hate goes towards the story, and in that aspect, it's well deserved. The story wasn't just bad, it was contradictory to nearly everything we knew about Samus from the previous games. It also doesn't help that from a gameplay perspective, it has almost none of the traits that make Metroid games Metroid games. Other M was a decent game by itself, but from the standpoint of being a Metroid title, which is what most people judged it on, it was nothing short of a failure.

It blows my mind how anyone could enjoy the gameplay more than the story, let alone at all. We pretty much got superficial action stuffs with simplistic combat in place of any real sense of exploration. Trudging through linear and bland areas for near pointless missile and health upgrades is not my idea of a good Metroid game.

The story at least had some effort put into it, even if the dialogue was shoddy or the few plotholes or not so great decisions in general. Most complaints seem to come from feminists who are concerned about turning any female character into one as dull(oh sorry I mean as "badass") as Master Chief. Any decent character has some weakness or flaw, without exception and regardless of gender.

It blows my mind how anyone could enjoy the gameplay more than the story, let alone at all. We pretty much got superficial action stuffs with simplistic combat in place of any real sense of exploration. Trudging through linear and bland areas for near pointless missile and health upgrades is not my idea of a good Metroid game.

The story at least had some effort put into it, even if the dialogue was shoddy or the few plotholes or not so great decisions in general. Most complaints seem to come from feminists who are concerned about turning any female character into one as dull(oh sorry I mean as "badass") as Master Chief. Any decent character has some weakness or flaw, without exception and regardless of gender.

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It's not a good Metroid game, you're right. I'm pretty sure the board universally agrees that nothing from Other M makes it a good Metroid game. That said, it's a fun little action title that pretty much anyone can pick up and go nuts with, and there's something to be said for that.

However, I completely disagree with you on the story. The issue isn't that Samus has flaws; the issue is that said flaws make absolutely no sense whatsoever given her character from past titles. Freezing up in front of a boss she's beaten on 5 or 6 different occasions is absolutely ludicrous. Being willing to run through an extremely dangerous environment without protective gear simply because some guy she knew from a long time ago with no real authority over her said she couldn't is even more so. And then there's the whole bizarre Adam death scene, which I probably find least offensive of the three in terms of Samus being upset, because there was at least something to legitimately be upset about. But still, it's absolutely stupid how much Samus breaks down there. She's lost allies before, and arguably lost one that she was even closer to a few hours ago in Anthony. And it'd be fine if she showed some emotion; one of the few believable emotions Samus shows in the game is anger after Ridley "kills" Anthony. But to have a complete mental and emotional breakdown complete with a supply of tears large enough to raise the sea level by a few inches is overdoing it, especially for a character who's perhaps best known for keeping her feelings in check.

And that's really where the majority of the problem with Samus' character is; it's horribly inconsistent with the rest of the series. She goes from being silent and fairly unemotional to quite talkative and incredibly overemotional with no real explanation as to why. It also doesn't help that said emotion seems to burst in at the most random of places; she handles running into dead soldiers and giant bosses like it's an every day part of the job, but then something suddenly switches and she starts expressing a rather stupidly high level of emotion. Honestly, I don't think I'd have that big of an issue with Samus' character in Other M if it weren't for the rest of the series. If Other M had been the first game in the series, or some new IP different from Metroid, I'd be fine with it...mostly (running through sector 3 without the Varia Suit is stupid regardless). The trouble is that the rest of the Metroid series DOES exist, and it seems like Sakamoto ignored pretty much everything that didn't line up with what he wanted from Samus as a character when he wrote her. Good storywriting does not blatantly ignore previous character development. Ace Attorney does this right, Resident Evil does this wrong.

As for the rest of the story, it's perhaps a slight step above Samus' character levels of awful. The narrative is all build up and never any pay off: the Ridley arc ends with him getting killed in a random cutscene with no player interaction, the Deleter arc is never resolved at all, the unfreezable Metroids arc is resolved by nothing more than a drawn out cutscene, with, again, no player interaction, and the entire story can basically be summed up as all build up and no pay off as well. The game consistently tries to make it sound like horrible things could happen if these experiments got out, which is basically the same threat as Fusion. Except that in Fusion, the real threat was the X, a seemingly unkillable parasite outside of the Metroid virus which could end galactic civilization if given a chance to spread. In Other M the game keeps trying to make us afraid of all the horrible things that could happen if the bioweapons escaped, but...what would really even happen if they did somehow manage to escape? Get lit up by a Federation flagship or something? There's all this build up to a supposed climatic showdown with the fate of the galaxy in your hands, but unlike Fusion, there's never any credible threat to the galaxy, and so there's never any sense of pay off from actually accomplishing something.

I hated the incredibly long cutscenes that have nothing to do with the plot, Samus' character, the fact that you have to fight the Grogranch(worst boss in the series) 3 times, the times where it forces you to find things in first-person mode and the fact that you can't move and shoot at the same time, but Other M is really not a bad game. In fact it's quite good. The combat is by far the best in the series, some of the bosses were really great, it was atmospheric and most of all the overall gameplay was good.
Metroid Other M was not as good as previous Metroids but it was an excellent game.

The Deleter was James Pierce. It gets resolved when MB kills him. Not many people realized it but the evidence against him is substantial.

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I realized that after finishing the game and then thinking "Hey, hold on, who was that traitor? They never told us." Then I went and did a search on the internet for who it was, and you can probably guess the rest.

Which is kind of my point; a neatly wrapped up storyline should not be forcing the player to search on the internet for the answer to one of the bigger mysteries in the game.

I hate the combat. Being able to regenerate missiles at will as well as health when low made it way too easy, and dodging wasn't hard to abuse either. Much preffered the combat from the Prime games.

Back to the story, I did pretty much ignore the rest of the series because it was the first to attempt a detailed story. Thus they were given opportunities to do things with Samus they hadn't tried in the past, like with her PTSD with Ridley. I don't mind about her crying about Adam's sacrifice nor following his orders to try to gain his trust back after their falling out because it was already made clear he was important and a father figure to her.

Stuff like the Varia suit is dumb, but I chalk that up to bad game design more than anything. Same with how the rest of the story suffers from making the game extremely restrictive and linear. There's no reason I should have to wait til after the credits to go back and get everything I missed in a Metroid game. If they'd actually allowed freedom to explore before the final stretch, maybe we wouldn't need to have Phantoon mindlessly thrown in and have better closure.

I hate the combat. Being able to regenerate missiles at will as well as health when low made it way too easy, and dodging wasn't hard to abuse either. Much preffered the combat from the Prime games.

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I should probably elaborate on my statement. It's not really the combat itself I preferred to the Prime games. It's more the action and presentation of the combat. The auto-aim is horrible, Concentration is for noobs and missiles are now almost useless in combat. However it feels more intense, at least to me than the Prime games. I always found that the movement in Prime was a little stiff(pretty much my only minor complaint) and because of that it always felt slightly less tense than it could've been. SenseMove, which admittedly makes Other M much easier, feels more natural than the slightly stiff movement from Prime. Samus is supposedly genetically modified to be faster with better reflexes and this is the first Metroid game where it felt like it in the context of combat. And the melee moves, which were nothing more finishing moves, really make it feel like a struggle between Samus and feral aliens, instead of just the cycle of Samus shooting at the alien and the alien clawing back(which is fine but doesn't feel as intense).
Summary: The combat itself isn't as good as the Prime games but the action is.

The Deleter was James Pierce. It gets resolved when MB kills him. Not many people realized it but the evidence against him is substantial.

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I realized that after finishing the game and then thinking "Hey, hold on, who was that traitor? They never told us." Then I went and did a search on the internet for who it was, and you can probably guess the rest.

Which is kind of my point; a neatly wrapped up storyline should not be forcing the player to search on the internet for the answer to one of the bigger mysteries in the game.

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I enjoy mysteries, so I really liked the addition of the Deleter but really they needed to explain it better because most people couldn't find out who it was themselves(or thought it was another character completely) and didn't fully understand his motives.

It's astonishing to me that people still try to defend the atrocious characterization and writing in Other M. And the PTSD thing again, really? Samus does not meet any of the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, it's so far off that I'm sure it's insulting to people who do suffer from it. The whole misperceptions is derived from the creative license of one illegal fan translation of a manga that's not even canon.

Nintendo doesn't even have an excuse anymore. The bleating over "but Nintendo hasn't done story before" is flat wrong. I've been playing the Fire Emblem games (first party Nintendo) and those often have excellent writing, solid stories (with actual twists) and believable (or at times quirky) characters. And you know what? They have a variety of strong female characters that have a range of personalities (some serious and deadly, others "bubbly", some shy, etc.), are very competent soldiers, and have foibles/flaws/weaknesses that are believable and well done (totally unlike Samus). Nintendo can and has done it right, so Other M continues to run out of excuses...

The Deleter was James Pierce. It gets resolved when MB kills him. Not many people realized it but the evidence against him is substantial.

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I think you misunderstand, the Deleter storyline was never resolved for Samus. As far as she knows, the traitor was the guy who's body was dumped in lava (which she didn't witness) or even Anthony still. She obsesses over this plot point for a while and then totally forgets about it without any resolution or conclusion being available to her. The fact that the audience knows who the Deleter is doesn't change this crucial narrative omission. It's among the most clumsy and sloppily written plot threads I've ever seen in a game.

EDIT: Yes, in the Prime games Samus moved at a plodding pace like she was a walking tank. Yes, this wasn't entirely fit for the iconic agility of the character. However it was a requirement due to the technology at the time (and there was concern over motion sickness). Most first person games at the time were slow and cumbersome, and the Prime games also needed time to load the next rooms. However technology has improved quite drastically since those days. With games like Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, first person speed and agility is not only possible, but well received and enjoyable. Future first person Metroid games may have a very nimble Samus again!

Personally, I find it more troubling that so many people seem content with Other M. The story is borderline offensive and sloppily written, and the gameplay ranges from "passable" to incredibly shallow and cheap. Even when you remove the context of the rest of the series and look at Other M as a standalone game, it's still bland and poorly designed.

EDIT: Yes, in the Prime games Samus moved at a plodding pace like she was a walking tank. Yes, this wasn't entirely fit for the iconic agility of the character. However it was a requirement due to the technology at the time (and there was concern over motion sickness). Most first person games at the time were slow and cumbersome, and the Prime games also needed time to load the next rooms.

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I understand this and I don't really have a problem with it. Just a minor complaint for an otherwise amazing game trilogy.

However technology has improved quite drastically since those days. With games like Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, first person speed and agility is not only possible, but well received and enjoyable. Future first person Metroid games may have a very nimble Samus again!

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Yes I hope the next first person Metroid(assuming there is one) has a faster, more agile Samus. It could improve the combat and the platforming greatly(not that they were bad but there's always room for improvement).

Metroid Other M is still the most overhated game on the Wii in my eyes, I picked up for my birthday expecting it to suck because of all the mixed reviews and cutscenes, but when I finally played it for myself I actually enjoyed it very much, it was nowhere near as good as the Prime games but it wasn't even close to a bad game let alone the abomination that these idiots on Internet make it out be. Storywise ill admit it was kind of weak though nowhere near as bad as Resident Evil 6's story and the potrail of Samus Aran was quite a bit out of character though she was still a strong and capable warrior in the game, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to single handedly take down the amount of enemy's and bosses in game like Nightmare. I will admit however the authroization to use abilitys was bloody stupid and the Ridley scene was totally out of character.

It's astonishing to me that people still try to defend the atrocious characterization and writing in Other M. And the PTSD thing again, really? Samus does not meet any of the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, it's so far off that I'm sure it's insulting to people who do suffer from it. The whole misperceptions is derived from the creative license of one illegal fan translation of a manga that's not even canon.

Nintendo doesn't even have an excuse anymore. The bleating over "but Nintendo hasn't done story before" is flat wrong. I've been playing the Fire Emblem games (first party Nintendo) and those often have excellent writing, solid stories (with actual twists) and believable (or at times quirky) characters. And you know what? They have a variety of strong female characters that have a range of personalities (some serious and deadly, others "bubbly", some shy, etc.), are very competent soldiers, and have foibles/flaws/weaknesses that are believable and well done (totally unlike Samus). Nintendo can and has done it right, so Other M continues to run out of excuses...

The Deleter was James Pierce. It gets resolved when MB kills him. Not many people realized it but the evidence against him is substantial.

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I think you misunderstand, the Deleter storyline was never resolved for Samus. As far as she knows, the traitor was the guy who's body was dumped in lava (which she didn't witness) or even Anthony still. She obsesses over this plot point for a while and then totally forgets about it without any resolution or conclusion being available to her. The fact that the audience knows who the Deleter is doesn't change this crucial narrative omission. It's among the most clumsy and sloppily written plot threads I've ever seen in a game.

EDIT: Yes, in the Prime games Samus moved at a plodding pace like she was a walking tank. Yes, this wasn't entirely fit for the iconic agility of the character. However it was a requirement due to the technology at the time (and there was concern over motion sickness). Most first person games at the time were slow and cumbersome, and the Prime games also needed time to load the next rooms. However technology has improved quite drastically since those days. With games like Titanfall and Mirror's Edge, first person speed and agility is not only possible, but well received and enjoyable. Future first person Metroid games may have a very nimble Samus again!

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I agree with you Mikesterx, that the entire PTSD,was a little weird and didn't make a whole lot of sense, especially considering she's battled Ridley a dozen times already and has shown no hints of PTSD. However, to say this is insulting to people who truly have PTSD is a little much I think. I find it very amusing how people bash this game, and say it is the worst game they've ever played, for its plot, and they typically mention the whole PTSD thing. So what if it's a little stupid? Almost every game I've ever seen and played have had stupid things here and there in their story lines. Just because one scene, literally one scene, Samus breaks down stupidly, it's suddenly the worst thing ever. How come in every other game, like Skyrim for example, we can overlook the glitches and the plot holes. These are stupid things that every game can and has done. But how come with huge titles like Skyrim, we brush them aside and focus on the good things in it? Because it's unfair to a game to nit pick at it. So why can't we just overlook a small portion of this game? I think most of us can agree that Nintendo kind of messed up on Metroid: Other M's plot, maybe they didn't make Samus' character bad-ass enough for us all. But just because you're not a fan of the game, doesn't mean it deserves hell, like some Metroid fans have condemned it to.

I find it very amusing how people bash this game, and say it is the worst game they've ever played, for its plot, and they typically mention the whole PTSD thing. So what if it's a little stupid? Almost every game I've ever seen and played have had stupid things here and there in their story lines. Just because one scene, literally one scene, Samus breaks down stupidly, it's suddenly the worst thing ever.

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Setting aside the fact that no one on this board has ever claimed this is the worst game they've ever played, you're correct in that were the PTSD thing the only issue with the story, it wouldn't be that bad. That said, the Ridley scene is nowhere near the last of Other M's issues. I wrote a long piece on the story several posts back which doesn't even come close to listing all of the problems with the narrative. There's the Adam scene, the sector 3 craze, the utter inconsistencies in Samus' personality, the ridiculously incompetent decision making by the Federation, the bland and unlikeable Federation side characters, the incredibly contrived Metroid storyline, the cliched "the government is secretly evil" plot that everyone knew was coming after Fusion, the insipid MB/MB thing, etc. etc.

The Ridley scene is by no means the end of Other M's problems.

How come in every other game, like Skyrim for example, we can overlook the glitches and the plot holes. These are stupid things that every game can and has done. But how come with huge titles like Skyrim, we brush them aside and focus on the good things in it?

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First off, let me say that I've written a fair amount on why Skyrim is a massively overrated title with a dull combat system, poor design, and insistence on style over substance to the continued detriment of the game, so Skyrim has by no means gotten off completely scot free.

That said, Skyrim's problems are far less offensive to me than Other M's for a couple of reasons. Firstly, none of Skyrim's issues tarnished a beloved character with a well established personality like Other M did. Secondly, Skyrim is a game that, despite my reservations towards it, I can admit was made to please its fans; whereas Other M was developed almost arrogantly, as Samus' personality is twisted and the series' storyline is warped in order to make way for Sakamoto to make her into what he wants her to be.

Other M's story is bad. It's incredibly bad. Perhaps apocalyptically so. I've seen better stories written on this board, and considering no one here is professional storywriter, that's saying a lot. Other M's story deserves all of the hatred directed towards it because it represents everything that is wrong with video game story writing, with the exception of stupid sex scenes. Other M's gameplay is perhaps overhated, because it's still enjoyable as a fun little action thing. There is no situation in which Other M's story would be tolerable regardless of what you're willing to ignore, and in the context of the Metroid series, it's the worst thing to happen to the series by far.

I find it very amusing how people bash this game, and say it is the worst game they've ever played, for its plot, and they typically mention the whole PTSD thing. So what if it's a little stupid? Almost every game I've ever seen and played have had stupid things here and there in their story lines. Just because one scene, literally one scene, Samus breaks down stupidly, it's suddenly the worst thing ever.

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Setting aside the fact that no one on this board has ever claimed this is the worst game they've ever played, you're correct in that were the PTSD thing the only issue with the story, it wouldn't be that bad. That said, the Ridley scene is nowhere near the last of Other M's issues. I wrote a long piece on the story several posts back which doesn't even come close to listing all of the problems with the narrative. There's the Adam scene, the sector 3 craze, the utter inconsistencies in Samus' personality, the ridiculously incompetent decision making by the Federation, the bland and unlikeable Federation side characters, the incredibly contrived Metroid storyline, the cliched "the government is secretly evil" plot that everyone knew was coming after Fusion, the insipid MB/MB thing, etc. etc.

The Ridley scene is by no means the end of Other M's problems.

How come in every other game, like Skyrim for example, we can overlook the glitches and the plot holes. These are stupid things that every game can and has done. But how come with huge titles like Skyrim, we brush them aside and focus on the good things in it?

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First off, let me say that I've written a fair amount on why Skyrim is a massively overrated title with a dull combat system, poor design, and insistence on style over substance to the continued detriment of the game, so Skyrim has by no means gotten off completely scot free.

That said, Skyrim's problems are far less offensive to me than Other M's for a couple of reasons. Firstly, none of Skyrim's issues tarnished a beloved character with a well established personality like Other M did. Secondly, Skyrim is a game that, despite my reservations towards it, I can admit was made to please its fans; whereas Other M was developed almost arrogantly, as Samus' personality is twisted and the series' storyline is warped in order to make way for Sakamoto to make her into what he wants her to be.

Other M's story is bad. It's incredibly bad. Perhaps apocalyptically so. I've seen better stories written on this board, and considering no one here is professional storywriter, that's saying a lot. Other M's story deserves all of the hatred directed towards it because it represents everything that is wrong with video game story writing, with the exception of stupid sex scenes. Other M's gameplay is perhaps overhated, because it's still enjoyable as a fun little action thing. There is no situation in which Other M's story would be tolerable regardless of what you're willing to ignore, and in the context of the Metroid series, it's the worst thing to happen to the series by far.

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You're right theamazinghoodie that the Ridley scene was not the only issue with Metroid: Other M, and I full heartily agree. Since I do agree with you on that part I never once said it was the only problem in the game. I agree the plot was bland, not very grasping, and just didn't fit. However, my point is this; just because a person may not be a fan of the story, or gameplay doesn't mean it is "apocalyptically [bad]." What I am trying to say is that even with its dull plot, why does that suddenly make this an offense to Samus Aran's character? We never got a definite personality of Samus. Yes we knew she was bad-ass, and if you notice how she's kicking the Queen Metroid's ass in this game I'd say she still is. You weren't a fan of the way they portrayed Samus in Other M, as am I, but saying Sakomoto did what he wanted with her, as if that was a dumb move on his part, is odd to me. Miyamoto did the same thing with Link. So did Intelligent Systems for Fire Emblem. You said yourself "Other M's gameplay is perhaps overhated, because it's still enjoyableas a fun little action thing." So if there's actually a fun game to be played, why do you find it, "incredibly bad." just because you weren't a fan of the story-line. It's one thing to say the plot is terrible and that's your opinion that you're entitled to, but to say the entire game is horrible, just isn't fair to the game.

Since I do agree with you on that part I never once said it was the only problem in the game.

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Uh...you certainly made it sound like that was your major complaint.

Almost every game I've ever seen and played have had stupid things here and there in their story lines. Just because one scene, literally one scene, Samus breaks down stupidly, it's (Other M) suddenly the worst thing ever.

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But whatever.

What I am trying to say is that even with its dull plot, why does that suddenly make this an offense to Samus Aran's character?

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Because it's INCONSISTENT with Samus' character.

While Samus' personality has never been perfectly set in stone, there's plenty of things we know about her and Other M goes against nearly all of them. Moreover, it contradicts established actions and portrays her as a bumbling idiot who routinely gets outsmarted by poorly executed conspiracy theories and is willing to make utterly stupid decisions for no reason other than "some guy she knew once told her to."

You weren't a fan of the way they portrayed Samus in Other M, as am I, but saying Sakomoto did what he wanted with her, as if that was a dumb move on his part, is odd to me. Miyamoto did the same thing with Link. So did Intelligent Systems for Fire Emblem.

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There's a key difference that you're missing, though. A creator doing what they want with a new character is fine. A creator then taking everything we knew about said character and drastically changing it into something else entirely is quite another. Imagine if the next Ace Attorney game had Phoenix Wright suddenly become a rapping street thug who throws beer bottles in the courtroom with no explanation whatsoever as to his change. Capcom would have been run out of their corporate offices within the week, and it's very much the same thing here. Sakamoto looked at Samus, realized that she wasn't a character that would possibly work in the role he wanted her to play in Other M, and then said, "fuck it, who cares about established character traits," and proceeded to put her personality through a cheese grater in order to fit her into the protagonist role for Other M.

You said yourself "Other M's gameplay is perhaps overhated, because it's still enjoyableas a fun little action thing."So if there's actually a fun game to be played, why do you find it, "incredibly bad." just because you weren't a fan of the story-line. It's one thing to say the plot is terrible and that's your opinion that you're entitled to, but to say the entire game is horrible, just isn't fair to the game.

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Now you're taking my quotes out of context. I'm not sure if that's intentional or not, but regardless, allow me to set the record straight.

Here is the paragraph that you quoted from, with a certain word routinely bolded to show what you conveniently left out.

Other M's story is bad. It's incredibly bad. Perhaps apocalyptically so. I've seen better stories written on this board, and considering no one here is professional storywriter, that's saying a lot. Other M's story deserves all of the hatred directed towards it because it represents everything that is wrong with video game story writing, with the exception of stupid sex scenes. Other M's gameplay is perhaps overhated, because it's still enjoyable as a fun little action thing. There is no situation in which Other M's story would be tolerable regardless of what you're willing to ignore, and in the context of the Metroid series, it's the worst thing to happen to the series by far.

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Notice the last instance of said bolding. "There is no situation in which Other M's STORY would be tolerable...it's the worst thing to happen to the series by far."

The STORY is the worst thing to happen to the series. The STORY is what's apocalyptically bad. The STORY is "incredibly bad."

All I've said is that the plot is terrible. I don't believe I've said anything in this thread calling Other M a bad game as a whole. The plotline is all that I've been criticizing, and I'm not sure how you managed to jump from something which was quite clearly a critique of the plotline to this somehow being a critique of the entire game.

True what you've quoted makes it sound like I only meant the Ridley scene, but let me elaborate on what I meant. Since I was replying to Mikesterx on his PTSD post, I only talked about the Ridley scene because that's where it happens. I said "literally one scene." because I was talking about how, (some people not on this board), overreact to this scene completely, in my opinion. That said, I was just trying to explain how perhaps we can look past this part of the game.

Now, theamazinghoodie, if you did not mean to insult the entire game, but instead its plot I understand. I was lead astray from this because of things you said, and I'm afraid calling something apocalyptically bad, doesn't mean someone will only think you hate the story. I understand you were just talking about the story now, but you never specified that you found the story to be trash, and not the actual game, however I know you said,

Other M's gameplay is perhaps overhated, because it's still enjoyableas a fun little action thing

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Even so that was the only praising you gave Other M, with everything else being flak. Especially when you have stated before,

it's the worst thing to happen to the series by far.

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The Ridley scene is by no means the end of Other M's problems.

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This gives me the impression of you speaking of Other M as a whole, including its gameplay.

Now you're taking my quotes out of context. I'm not sure if that's intentional or not, but regardless, allow me to set the record straight.

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I never took your quote out of context. I was merely quoting where you said you enjoyed Other M's gameplay, for I was talking about the gameplay aspects myself.

Here is the paragraph that you quoted from, with a certain word routinely bolded to show what you conveniently left out.

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It wows me that you think I "conveniently" left parts of your quotes out. I'm not part of the press. I am not trying to twist and turn what you are saying into rubbish. I got quite plainly that you were talking about the story in your post, however, how I have now stated, some things you said led me to believe you were calling the actual game apocalyptically bad. And since I know now you aren't I can agree with most of what you've said about the story and the flaws it has.

Alas, I am still a bit lost on how Miyamoto hasn't done what he's wanted with the new Links. Link has been around since 1986, it's 2014 and Link is still changing. Do you think the Link from the original The Legend of Zelda isn't completely different from the Link in Twilight Princess? As I said I don't really like the new Samus, but I find it hard to believe that Sakamoto was not considering his fans when creating Samus's character. He wouldn't intentionally want flak from his fans.

This gives me the impression of you speaking of Other M as a whole, including its gameplay.

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...which I could understand, had I not mentioned the word "story" specifically six different times in the final paragraph.

But whatever, minor quibbles I suppose.

It wows me that you think I "conveniently" left parts of your quotes out. I'm not part of the press. I am not trying to twist and turn what you are saying into rubbish.

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Oh, you aren't?

Whew.

I was worried I'd have to answer for that drug dealer selfie last week.

Alas, I am still a bit lost on how Miyamoto hasn't done what he's wanted with the new Links. Link has been around since 1986, it's 2014 and Link is still changing. Do you think the Link from the original The Legend of Zelda isn't completely different from the Link in Twilight Princess? As I said I don't really like the new Samus, but I find it hard to believe that Sakamoto was not considering his fans when creating Samus's character. He wouldn't intentionally want flak from his fans.

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Uh...no, I don't think that the Links are the same...and in fact that was entirely my point. Because all of the Links throughout the Zelda series (with the exception of Majora's Mask and Phantom Hourglass) are different people entirely, Mayamoto is free to characterize them however he wishes. They can be anything from the bland cardboard cutout of a character in Twilight Princess to the expressive likeable seafarer in Wind Waker. Since the Links are all different characters entirely, there's no need to worry about keeping them in character from one game to the next.

Samus in Other M, meanwhile, is a whole other story. Since Other M Samus is the same Samus as in all the other games, keeping her character consistent should be one of the foremost concerns when putting her into a story that's as focused on her as Other M's is (which was a terrible decision in and of itself, but whatever, that's another discussion entirely). If Other M Samus was a completely new character (like Link), then most of my gripes with her would be gone. But she isn't. She's the exact same character, and she's now acting radically different with no real explanation at all.

And I'm not suggesting that Sakamoto was intentionally trying to piss the fanbase off, but rather that he simply ignored everything besides what he wanted Samus to be, even if that meant warping the Metroid timeline and trampling all over established character traits.

which I could understand, had I not mentioned the word "story" specifically six different times in the final paragraph.

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You missed my entire point, I said just because you say "story" a million times doesn't mean you somehow love the gameplay.

But like you said,

...whatever, minor quibbles I suppose

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Oh, you aren't?

Whew.

I was worried I'd have to answer for that drug dealer selfie last week.

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The immaturity is strong with this one.

Uh...no, I don't think that the Links are the same...and in fact that was entirely my point. Because all of the Links throughout the Zelda series (with the exception of Majora's Mask and Phantom Hourglass) are different people entirely, Mayamoto is free to characterize them however he wishes. They can be anything from the bland cardboard cutout of a character in Twilight Princess to the expressive likeable seafarer in Wind Waker. Since the Links are all different characters entirely, there's no need to worry about keeping them in character from one game to the next.

Samus in Other M, meanwhile, is a whole other story. Since Other M Samus is the same Samus as in all the other games, keeping her character consistent should be one of the foremost concerns when putting her into a story that's as focused on her as Other M's is (which was a terrible decision in and of itself, but whatever, that's another discussion entirely). If Other M Samus was a completely new character (like Link), then most of my gripes with her would be gone. But she isn't. She's the exact same character, and she's now acting radically different with no real explanation at all.

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Fair point and I must agree with you on the Link portion, since they are different Links, majority of Zelda games, it does give Miyamoto more free reign to do what he wants with the character. However, I'd love to here how Samus acts radically different from, you know, the personality she never had. Please list some personality traits Samus had before Other M, that Sakamoto could possibly be not keeping consistent with. As far as I know, all we ever knew about Samus was she was a bad-ass bounty hunter. And she still is, I trust.

You missed my entire point, I said just because you say "story" a million times doesn't mean you somehow love the gameplay.

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...I never said I did love the gameplay, so that point's correct regardless.

The immaturity is strong with this one.

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Yep.

However, I'd love to here how Samus acts radically different from, you know, the personality she never had. Please list some personality traits Samus had before Other M, that Sakamoto could possibly be not keeping consistent with.

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Certainly.

Let's start off with Samus' reaction in the midst of adversity, specifically, losing allies. Over the course of Metroid Prime 3, we see Samus react to losing allies in a manner befitting of someone who's fought in countless battles. She expresses some emotion, as seen in the Gandrayda scene, but ultimately moves on and doesn't let it affect her to any degree significant enough to disrupt her mission. Meanwhile, in Other M, she reacts to losing an ally (Adam), by having a complete and utter emotional breakdown complete with enough tears to end droughts worldwide. We've gone from a character with a very high degree of emotional stability to one who bursts into tears and loses her suit whenever she's confronted with some emotional trauma.

Secondly, let's look at Samus' independent nature. It's established fairly early on in Fusion that Samus despises any sort of order taking, and is quite reluctant to accept a subordinate position aboard the BSL, which is supported by the way she's carried out her missions in the past. Meanwhile, in Other M, she's so eager to become Adam's subordinate that she willingly puts her life in stupid amounts of danger for the privelege of following his orders. Even before he takes her aboard, she refuses to use her powerups in the hopes of gaining his approval. We've gone from a very independent character to someone who will do almost anything in order to be included.

Thirdly, let's look at Samus' outgoingness. In the previous Metroid games, with the exception of a few lines in Fusion and a few implied lines in Corruption, Samus is a silent protagonist, and prefers to stay that way even when others are around (see the Olympus in MP3, the majority of her conversations with the computer in Fusion, U-Mos in MP2, etc.). In Other M, meanwhile, she does a complete 180 and talks more than possibly any other character in a video game that year. Had there been some explanation or perhaps a lead in period to her slowly becoming more talkative, this might not have been such a huge inconsistency. As it stands, Samus is a full blown talker right out of the gate, and the player is left wondering what in the world happened.

The issue here isn't that Samus is somehow "not a badass," or anything. The issue is that she's just a flat out inconsistent character.

She expresses some emotion, as seen in the Gandrayda scene, but ultimately moves on and doesn't let it affect her to any degree significant enough to disrupt her mission. Meanwhile, in Other M, she reacts to losing an ally (Adam), by having a complete and utter emotional breakdown

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True indeed the Adam scene is just.....plain stupid, and yes I had forgotten about that in Prime 3.

It's established fairly early on in Fusion that Samus despises any sort of order taking, and is quite reluctant to accept a subordinate position aboard the BSL, which is supported by the way she's carried out her missions in the past.

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Very true indeed.

Samus is a silent protagonist, and prefers to stay that way even when others are around (see the Olympus in MP3, the majority of her conversations with the computer in Fusion, U-Mos in MP2, etc.). In Other M, meanwhile, she does a complete 180 and talks more than possibly any other character in a video game that year.

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Ah, I see, but the only reason she talks like a high school girl that won't shut up is because Sakamoto wanted to add a plot, which he thought could use.......24/7 narrationBut I doubt he did this to change her character.

Well you certainly have shown me some things she has done in previous Metroid titles that have been changed in Other M. While, yes these changes are a little irritating, I'm still not convinced they changed Samus' character radically at all, like you said.

The things you have listed are not truly huge personality traits, therefore not making the changes drastic. But they did change her slightly more than I had realized, but I still don't hate Sakamoto for doing this. You must admit theamazinghoodie that Samus has never truly been established, however she did have some personality traits,

(which is very annoying that Sakamoto was like, "You know what Samus needs, tears! Just bucket loads of tears!")

I still understand why he did this. Of course I don't like the changes, but for Sakamoto to try and do the Adam scene is understandable, even though it was way too much. I feel that Sakamoto just wanted to elaborate on Samus, and he decided to start from scratch. I'm not pissed at him for doing this because it still doesn't feel like much of Samus was ever established.

Anyway I still feel that even though the story is

I don't hate it. It sucks for a Metroid plot, but personally I can appreciate it for what it tried to be. The gameplay I find very enjoyable and I can just learn to ignore the mediocre story.

Ah, I see, but the only reason she talks like a high school girl that won't shut up is because Sakamoto wanted to add a plot, which he thought could use.......24/7 narrationBut I doubt he did this to change her character.

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Right, and I'm not suggesting that Sakamoto set out with the original intention to change Samus radically. What he did was write a plot without taking into concern any previously established character traits, and then forced Samus through it.

Well you certainly have shown me some things she has done in previous Metroid titles that have been changed in Other M. While, yes these changes are a little irritating, I'm still not convinced they changed Samus' character radically at all, like you said.

The things you have listed are not truly huge personality traits, therefore not making the changes drastic. But they did change her slightly more than I had realized, but I still don't hate Sakamoto for doing this. You must admit theamazinghoodie that Samus has never truly been established, however she did have some personality traits,

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Then I'm not entirely sure what I could possibly say to convince you. Samus is known for being an emotionally stable person, she's the furthest thing from emotional stability in Other M. Samus is known for generally being independent, she's begging to depend on someone this time around. Samus is known for keeping to herself, she's practically a walking talking machine in Other M. These are all fully established personality traits, and they're all radically different in Other M with little to no explanation as to why.

I'm guessing the difference you're trying to denote is between "character traits" and "personality traits," in which case I would ask what makes a trait a personality trait? Independence is a personality type. Silence is a personality type. Emotional stability is very much a personality trait. What makes these not "huge" personality traits?

I suppose Samus has never been as established a character as, say, Dante from the old Devil May Cry games, but that's not to say that she doesn't have her own defining traits, and changing them with no explanation is still really silly and makes for an awful characterization. Would it have been as jarring as it would have if Dante had suddenly taken on Samus' Other M persona? No, certainly not, but just because Samus isn't as established a character doesn't make the writing any less excusable. In fact, it may make it even less excusable; as Samus has fewer established character traits, getting those few ones right is much more important.

I'm guessing the difference you're trying to denote is between "character traits" and "personality traits," in which case I would ask what makes a trait a personality trait?

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Personality traits are bits that make up a personality. For instance, being shy around others, is a personality trait that is part of their personality, personality is the image you project. Characteristics are morals a person has.

What my point is, while Sakamoto annoyingly got rid of whatever personality she had before, he didn't change her personality as a whole radically. He changed certain parts of her personality radically. Being silent, while still a trait, is very general, and therefore is not very descriptive, so her being silent was never a huge defining trait of her personality, changing it isn't really affecting her personality as a whole much. With that said, independence is, however a strong and not as general of a trait than silence is. While Sakamoto did however change Samus' job as being not very independent I don't believe he changed her, to not being independent. She simply had to abide to Adam's orders, I don't think she was really ever itching for the opportunity. (If you disagree please list some instances where she wants to take orders from Adam.) But, as we all know, emotional stability is a very strong personality trait, and hardly general. I'm not arguing that this wasn't radically changed, because it, unfortunately, was. PTSD, crying for Adam, can't focus on her mission because of the past, etc.

My argument is that, her personality as a whole was never changed radically, because she did not have a huge established personality. But, like I've said, Sakamoto did radically change the personality trait of her being emotionally stable. Since he only radically changed one trait, it doesn't change her entire personality.

(Take a swig for every time I've said radically! )

I suppose Samus has never been as established a character as, say, Dante from the old Devil May Cry games, but that's not to say that she doesn't have her own defining traits, and changing them with no explanation is still really silly

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I agree with you entirely on what you've said here. In my opinion, and yours, Sakamoto did not make a good choice in changing the personality traits and should have stuck with what personality she already had.

In fact, it may make it even less excusable; as Samus has fewer established character traits, getting those few ones right is much more important.

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I'm not sure just because she had fewer traits, made it more important for Sakamoto to keep them. Because I think all people ever notice with a change in character, is that they've changed. I'm not sure how her having less established personality than, Dante would make her traits more important.

Personality traits are bits that make up a personality. For instance, being shy around others, is a personality trait that is part of their personality, personality is the image you project. Characteristics are morals a person has.

Personality: the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character.

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Characteristic: a feature or quality belonging typically to a person, place, or thing and serving to identify it.

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"Personality" is just the collection of characteristics that define you. Samus's characteristics (at least the ones I listed), are:

1) Silent2) Independent
3) Emotionally stable

Her personality, meanwhile, is that of a silent, independent, emotionally stable type.

My point in bringing the dictionary into this is to argue that you're trying to draw an arbitrary line between personality traits and characteristics which doesn't exist. Personality traits and characteristics are one and the same; characteristics have nothing to do with morals (or, at least, nothing more than personality does).

I suppose you can argue that Sakamoto didn't drastically change her morals, but since we know next to nothing about Samus' morals in the first place that's hardly an argument.

What my point is, while Sakamoto annoyingly got rid of whatever personality she had before, he didn't change her personality as a whole radically. He changed certain parts of her personality radically.

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The problem with that argument is that since we know so little about Samus in the first place, the few "radical" changes that he did make to her are amplified times 1000. If those three traits are all we have to identify her by (and they're probably not, but let's roll with it for the sake of argument as I'm too lazy to go back through Metroid history), and he changes all three of those dramatically, the entire character is indeed drastically changed, as those character traits are all they have to begin with.

(If you disagree please list some instances where she wants to take orders from Adam.)

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Let's start with the fairly obvious one; the beginning of the game. Samus is so desperate to get accepted by Adam that she voluntarily deactivates almost all of her equipment without him even telling her to. In essence, she projects what his orders would be, and then follows them. If that isn't desire to obey someone's orders, I don't know what is.

There's also the infamous "sector 3 danger run," in which Samus places following Adam's orders over her own safety. There's a whole other argument to be had about why Adam wouldn't let her use her Varia Suit in a superheated room, because a heat shield poses no threat to potential civilian lives, but, whatever, that's a different discussion. While the Samus in, say, Fusion, for instance, was willing to defy orders on several occasions in situations that weren't even remotely life threatening (say, opening the sector 4 blast doors, invading the Metroid facility, etc), Samus isn't even willing to defy an order to give herself life saving technology. Again, if the willingness to place your own life in unnecessary extreme danger for no other reason than "my commander didn't say I could," I'm not sure what constitutes wanting to follow orders.

I could go on and reference any of the other examples where Samus willingly places herself in unnecessary danger for no other reason than Adam tells her to. There are some examples where it makes some semblance of sense, such as, say, not using Power Bombs, as those could very well kill someone. But others, such as using the Varia or Gravity Suit, or allowing access to the Grapple Beam, make no sense whatsoever. Samus denies these utterly harmless and sometimes life-protecting upgrades to herself simply because of an order. Again, she wouldn't obey these orders unless she wanted to follow them.

I'm not sure just because she had fewer traits, made it more important for Sakamoto to keep them. Because I think all people ever notice with a change in character, is that they've changed. I'm not sure how her having less established personality than, Dante would make her traits more important.

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Actually, it's quite important, and I can reference this with a specific example since that very same thing has happened to Dante.

Take the Dantes from DMC3 and DMC4. Both characters have a wealth of characteristics/personality traits/attributes/whatever you want to call it. They're both cocky, both have a rather odd sense of humor that's both parts hilarious and cringe worthy, they both enjoy showing off, they both have an utter lack of respect for nearly anything, they're both routine trash talkers, etc. The two versions of Dante have a lot in common.

There are, however, some areas that they differ. DMC3 Dante is more serious than DMC4 Dante, DMC3 Dante has a much shorter temper, and DMC4 Dante acts a bit more condescendingly. If these three traits were all that DMC3 Dante had, DMC4 Dante might very well have felt like an entirely different character.

But, since there are all these other traits that the two versions have in common, it's quite easy to recognize DMC4 Dante as an older, more eccentric version of the same character. He's different from DMC3 Dante, yes, but he carries enough similarities that the changes that have been made don't make him entirely different.

Samus, meanwhile, doesn't have that same multitude of attributes. She only has a few major characteristics that we know of. In the same way that DMC4 Dante would have been a largely unrecognizable character had those three traits I listed been the only traits DMC3 Dante possessed, Other M Samus is very much an unrecognizable character since her few defining characteristics have been changed drastically as well.

I bet, I just bet that even if Nintendo decided to declare Metroid Other M non canon you'd all still be complaining about it.

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To some extent, sure; it's still a bad game regardless of whether it's canon or not. It would do a lot to restore confidence in Nintendo for me, as it would basically be the equivalent of them recognizing they made a mistake and deciding to take a different direction with the franchise, and it would also fix a whole lot of issues with Samus' character that now exist, but it doesn't make a bad game go away.

I bet, I just bet that even if Nintendo decided to declare Metroid Other M non canon you'd all still be complaining about it.

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To some extent, sure; it's still a bad game regardless of whether it's canon or not. It would do a lot to restore confidence in Nintendo for me, as it would basically be the equivalent of them recognizing they made a mistake and deciding to take a different direction with the franchise, and it would also fix a whole lot of issues with Samus' character that now exist, but it doesn't make a bad game go away.

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It's only bad by Metroid standards, as a standalone game it's an above decent game.

I bet, I just bet that even if Nintendo decided to declare Metroid Other M non canon you'd all still be complaining about it.

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To some extent, sure; it's still a bad game regardless of whether it's canon or not. It would do a lot to restore confidence in Nintendo for me, as it would basically be the equivalent of them recognizing they made a mistake and deciding to take a different direction with the franchise, and it would also fix a whole lot of issues with Samus' character that now exist, but it doesn't make a bad game go away.

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It's only bad by Metroid standards, as a standalone game it's an above decent game.

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Quite unfortunate then that it happens to have the name "Metroid" on the front.

To some extent, sure; it's still a bad game regardless of whether it's canon or not. It would do a lot to restore confidence in Nintendo for me, as it would basically be the equivalent of them recognizing they made a mistake and deciding to take a different direction with the franchise, and it would also fix a whole lot of issues with Samus' character that now exist, but it doesn't make a bad game go away.

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It's only bad by Metroid standards, as a standalone game it's an above decent game.

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Quite unfortunate then that it happens to have the name "Metroid" on the front.

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No I take back what I said earlier Metroid Other M is neither a bad game in its own right nor a overly bad Metroid game. I played and finished it myself on both normal and hard and gameplaywise I can honestly say I enjoyed it just as much as Prime 2 Echoes and Prime 3 Corruption but not as much as the first Prime game because that was a flawless masterpeace. Storywise it was no masterpeace but it wasn't overly bad either let alone the abomination these trolls on the Internet make it out to be and there was nothing and I mean nothing sexist about Metroid Other M not one thing. I can honestly say that despite its flaws and some very none Metroid things about it I enjoyed Metroid Other M about as much as I enjoyed any other game I played on the Wii except Twilight Princess.

It's only bad by Metroid standards, as a standalone game it's an above decent game.

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Quite unfortunate then that it happens to have the name "Metroid" on the front.

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No I take back what I said earlier Metroid Other M is neither a bad game in its own right nor a overly bad Metroid game. I played and finished it myself on both normal and hard and gameplaywise I can honestly say I enjoyed it just as much as Prime 2 Echoes and Prime 3 Corruption but not as much as the first Prime game because that was a flawless masterpeace. Storywise it was no masterpeace but it wasn't overly bad either let alone the abomination these trolls on the Internet make it out to be and there was nothing and I mean nothing sexist about Metroid Other M not one thing. I can honestly say that despite its flaws and some very none Metroid things about it I enjoyed Metroid Other M about as much as I enjoyed any other game I played on the Wii except Twilight Princess.

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Welp, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. All I'll say is that there's plenty of good reasons as to why Other M's story is almost universally despised, and it earns the hatred it's gotten from around the Metroid fanbase.

Quite unfortunate then that it happens to have the name "Metroid" on the front.

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No I take back what I said earlier Metroid Other M is neither a bad game in its own right nor a overly bad Metroid game. I played and finished it myself on both normal and hard and gameplaywise I can honestly say I enjoyed it just as much as Prime 2 Echoes and Prime 3 Corruption but not as much as the first Prime game because that was a flawless masterpeace. Storywise it was no masterpeace but it wasn't overly bad either let alone the abomination these trolls on the Internet make it out to be and there was nothing and I mean nothing sexist about Metroid Other M not one thing. I can honestly say that despite its flaws and some very none Metroid things about it I enjoyed Metroid Other M about as much as I enjoyed any other game I played on the Wii except Twilight Princess.

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Welp, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. All I'll say is that there's plenty of good reasons as to why Other M's story is almost universally despised, and it earns the hatred it's gotten from around the Metroid fanbase.

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I admit the story was almost as bad as Resident Evil 6 but that did not ruin the gameplay for me.

Quite unfortunate then that it happens to have the name "Metroid" on the front.

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No I take back what I said earlier Metroid Other M is neither a bad game in its own right nor a overly bad Metroid game. I played and finished it myself on both normal and hard and gameplaywise I can honestly say I enjoyed it just as much as Prime 2 Echoes and Prime 3 Corruption but not as much as the first Prime game because that was a flawless masterpeace. Storywise it was no masterpeace but it wasn't overly bad either let alone the abomination these trolls on the Internet make it out to be and there was nothing and I mean nothing sexist about Metroid Other M not one thing. I can honestly say that despite its flaws and some very none Metroid things about it I enjoyed Metroid Other M about as much as I enjoyed any other game I played on the Wii except Twilight Princess.

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Welp, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. All I'll say is that there's plenty of good reasons as to why Other M's story is almost universally despised, and it earns the hatred it's gotten from around the Metroid fanbase.