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Basically, just a ton of interactions and trains of thought I have on the game will be posted here so I can keep track of information better and so it can be used or expanded upon by the rest of you. The posting will be spontaneous as my batshit crazy ideas tend to be. I think this warrants it's own thread because they're not quite formed enough to make a deck list/cohesive explanation yet and these strategies may or may not have or warrant their own discussion pages. Others are welcome to add their floating thoughts.

-Madolches have synergy with Kozmo in a few ways. Hootcake can banish Kozmos in GY then can be added back with Kozmotown. Kozmo also doesn't have a great win condition against Nekroz at the moment and the Madolche cards and Glow-Up Bulb + Mel. of the Trees to go into Naturia beast can solve that. The Madolche cards would also work well and combo with emergency teleport. The deck could support Reasoning too, if they call it right you can banish it with Hootcake. Actually, Kozmo in general can use Reasoning as your opponent doesn't have great odds of hitting the correct level and it also increases the "ceiling" in quotation marks of the deck.

-The pendulum mechanic isn't abused as much as it's potential entails and people need to understand and explore the fact that you can pendulum monsters from my hand. One attempt I've made to get that to work is a deck including a small Igknight engine, Heroes, and Madolches. Pure theory, the pendulum mechanic solves the normal summon issue in Madolche that Burning Abyss used to have while also contributing to the plays you can make from extra if you drew 3 of them. You can also use Eccentrick Archfiend and Magical Abductor, and a Veiler to search with Abductor. AHL/Shadow Mist/Mask Change are generally good vs everything and help against what might be the worst match-up for this strategy, Shaddolls. Although those could be scrapped in favor of a strategy that can just OTK through Shaddoll decks, possibly even through Damage Juggler, with Masquerade (Nekroz decks as well in that case.) There's three ways to go about backrow decks. Attack the backrow themselves (Denkos, MSTs,) pushing through them with playing a ton of Monsters, or playing a deck that makes all their backrows effectively useless. The latter of the three wouldn't apply for the aforementioned strategy so it's either 1 or 2 and 2 is generally better than 1 in that when they don't have their sets your Monsters are still good, in which case we wanna strive for a strategy that can go ham through backrow and the pendulum mechanic is involved with this by letting you summoning your whole hand and could potentially help do that. It also has that same win condition of Glow-Up Bulb/Naturia Beast against Nekroz, if they didn't draw Hat Tricker + Normal Summon or Brio > Normal Summon in the Clown version, in the case of Brio > Normal Summon then Hat Tricker then outing Naturia Beast, it could be reasonable to suggest they won't have much to do after that, which draws a parallel to back in the day with Secret Village of the Spellcasters when they could search a Caster and Normal Summon it, but then they usually wouldn't have hard drawn enough to do shit after that, meaning you're still in an advantageous position.

-Another deck that may have synergy with other strategies barring the known lightsworn that hasn't been explored in-depth is Infernoid. Essentially creating free level 7's and 8's from grave to use for overlaying like old strategies possibly into shit like Felgrand, or might be able to work with plants and Karakuris into the same kinds of combos that Gigavise used to make. Not to mention special summoning the level 4 guy for free then destroying backrow, and effect Dekatron can also copy, is powerful against backrow decks. As things stand the deck alone doesn't have a good win condition against Nekroz, though. No, Mistake is not a fucking good win condition we need a strategy that can actually solve the major contradiction of this format of Nekroz vs Non-Nekroz.

-People talking about these OTK decks with Noden that just play Instant Fusion need to understand that for the consistency of the deck to work out you're going to need more than just Instant Fusion to bring him out. Other ideas are Fusion Gate, or Sabatiel, the Philosopher's Stone/Synchro Fusionist to search the card. Either way, the concept needs more exploring and the deck is inadequate AS IS.

-Perhaps in Madolche the Hat Tricker and Damage Juggler are a good idea. One issue with the deck is it rarely got off OTK's so against Non-Nekroz (the severity of the situation is obviously ten-fold with Nekroz,) they'd have a turn to kill you in between even if you got off your strong play. Damage Juggler would help mitigate that and Hat Tricker could be used in combos and also to make Naturia Beast with the Glow-Up Bulb Play.

-If you can make Ritual Beast consistent, it will probably be the best deck in the game. As things stand, it isn't, but that could change. Some engines like Chicken Race/Terraforming/the Zefra field spell, etc.

-Is that Zefra Yang Zing deck actually broken? I see some people win with it on DN but also see it brick a lot too and I barely know shit about it. Maybe it's a hidden gem. I also don't know what it's win condition against Nekroz is, maybe Void Ogre + a searched Zefra Trap or two?

Will post more thoughts when I have them.

19

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-In a Madolche/Hero deck Summoner Monk can be used to summon Anjelly or Shadow Mist. It also allows you a better play going first blind because Dark Law is good against most decks while Naturia beast is only good against Nekroz and Qliphort, generally.

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The Zefra Yang Zing deck is neat but not broken. You can summon Felgrand + Void Ogre with Solemn Judgment set t1 true, but thats a 5 card combo including drawing Jiaotu. Anyone can think of a powerful 5 card combo, but we don't build decks around them because they rarely happen. The deck is also fucked by backrow, Archfiend Eccentrick helps a bit but doesn't change the fact that Fiendish/BTS/Veiler on Jiaotu is game. Literally everything good about that deck hinges on Jiaotu but if you don't open it you need to set your Yang Zings and wait. If I'm playing a deck based around one card I think it should be something more accessible like Dante.

You can't use Creation + Pendulum because Creation stops you from summoning Pendulums from Extra Deck, which severely limits Zefra power especially because you're supposed to exploit Synchros by using Pendulum to return materials again and again.

Post-DOCS, the best build of Zefra is going to be Zefra Dracoslayer.

Without Pendulum Wizard (or Insight Magician?), nicEMeme gets considerably weaker since it can't easily destroy Dracoslayer in order to summon it back off of Paladin + Ignister +etc.

We can't do it yet because we don't have Infinity, but Masquerade still gets through Valk/etc

You get built-in answers to backrow and floodgates in the form of Zefraxciton and Zefrathuban, Dracoslayer can recover Zefraxi after you Synchro with it (which solves the issue of losing it after using it), Dracoslayer + Zefracore + Zefrathuban gets you a 3-card 3 material Rank 4 on top of a free destruction.

I'd like to say that it's as consistent as nicEMeme because Waver/Oracle/ROTA can let you search literally every piece of the deck, but it receives next to no OCG representation because of just how much stronger nicEMeme is.

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that zefra yang zing build being mentioned doesn't run Creation, NB96 pretty much described it, it's a Jiatou combo deck that aims to OTK with triple Baxia. Norden makes it a lot easier to push through Veiler and I believe technical play can solve maxx "c" (pend summon your guys, then synchro on their turn).

You can do cute shit with the Oracle of the Zefra like stacking a handtrap if you have maxx "c" in hand, which makes it considerably easier to end your opponents turn (Lancea vs Nekroz) so you can OTK on the following turn.

I haven't played very much with the deck, but I think some form of Void Ogre, Zefrassault and Herald of the Arc Light is how the deck aims to beat Nekroz. There's also Chiwen + Bixi + Level 6 Zefraying for Chaofeng which locks out the Jus and the Rituals.

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On the topic of madolche, brilliant fusion and clowns might be a decent build. Brilliant fusion allowing you to dump monsters for hootcake and it gives you extra normal summons due to seraphinite which you can abuse to combo off or with magileine.

Edit: Double summon has also seen some use in madolche decks way back in the past when they were somewhat relevant. Also seraphinite can be used with puddingcess to make choco a-la mode.

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Dimensional fissure/mind drain are really good right now. If I were to play madolche, I'd max out on those. Renders 5-6 cards in their deck worthless while letting you combo off. In general, I think a combo deck that could main difi and 2ish mind drain would have a lot of potential, but not many come to mind.

Sylvan with kuribandit brilliant fusion and sabatiel is really powerful in theory. Charity can stack drawn knights into the deck. Instant and brilliant are both searchable. Engine access to spore and GUB is also really cool, especially since fields including felgrand herald and/or nat beast are totally feasible. Only issue is main deck/ extra deck space.

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With Maxx "C" and Retaliating "C" becoming even more popular every day, with Veiler as a common answer to Norden, with Damage Juggler in most Nekroz and Doll Variants, with Honest in Kozmo, the question is: How many (and) which hand-traps can we play? And what will be dropped for them? Will we have an even more trapless format? With the current OTK potential of many decks, are things like Swift Scarecrow or Fader going to be a thing again?
I see more and more people taking Maxx "C" challenges because of possible OTKs. Classic solutions to this include Gorz and Trag (which was always good with Maxx "C").

Ghost Ogre possibly becoming format defining (in a near future) is just waiting around the corner, too.

When fewer real traps are played, can mass removal like Heavy or Feather Duster come back (ye ye Pendulum, I know)?

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Damage Juggler can replace Swift Scarecrow as it does not affect monsters and is more difficult to play around

On the topic of Zefra Yang Zing now, I believe some people do the same mistake as some others do with Ritual Beast. The deck does not aim at making a 5 cards combo in order to have a reliable win condition. What the deck does is turn face-up Extra Deck monsters into threats, in a way like Qliphorts, except it is for synchro fodder rather than tribute fodder. LIGHT Zefras serve as card removal, EARTH ones serve as Synchro Material as well as searchers for your key cards (Oracle, Strike and Path). Regular Yang Zings serve in a way as searchers for Jiaotu/Chiwen and also function as floaters and synchro material.

And all of that with complete sinergy (most of the cards that need a condition to activate their effects will find a trigger with a good number of cards from the rest of the deck).

The synchro plays themselves are really powerful as well. Thinking about Baxia (note that resolving Jiaotu by discarding at least one monster is almost always a guaranteed Felgrand or Baxia + Void + Strike or Baxia + invincible Herald play) which litterally smashes scale and graveyard strategies while it lets you bring back floaters on the field, or Chaofeng, Herald/w Bi'an, among others.

I only have one or two weeks of occasional testing with the deck, but with a correct build you should have a deck does not brick like 1 game out of 5. I think this deck, while it has flaws, deserves to be worked on as much as Ritual Blasts and Infernoids can be.

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On the Zefra Dracoslayer line a mate sent this Satellar-based list to me a while back, but we never got around to testing it so I have no idea if it's even good or just a pile of junk. Looking at it, I guess it seems fine as the Satellars do give you solid answers for a lot of the threats out there. Not sure if committing to try to get out stuff like Triverr is the right move, as don't get me wrong, he's pretty damn good but in here it is going to need some Pendulum support to hit the field.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Admittedly the main thing which interests me when it comes to stuff like this is the ability to play Luster Pendulum to load up the Extra easily and Ignister as it's one of the best Synchros out there atm, and that's in general matchups. He obviously gets ridiculous against stuff like Qliphorts where you get to pop Scout AND return something to their deck. You'd think the best deck for them would be Igknights but Luster's a bit risky to load into the Pendulum Zone as you need Ignister to resolve if you don't want to be locked out of summoning Margrave and Gallant, as well as the lack of space for too many tech choices probably means you can only fit in the one Luster which foils the whole Ignister plan.

I wanted to try the idea of using a small Igknight engine to help fuel some other decks, mostly ones with the Warrior-type to try and keep the number of cards needed down due to those decks already running Rota. However, the generally low monster count of U.A. didn't really lend itself towards the idea and Satellarknights have to give up a decent chunk of their trap lineup so it's probably not great to try there either. Will admit I completely forgot about Heroes. As mentioned Dark Law access would be pretty awesome as outside of loading Spell Canceller, Majesty's and Throes the full Igknight deck does struggle with Shaddolls and committing to running Pendulums makes Retaliating less of a good answer to Shaddolls. The only somewhat minor issue with the Hero idea is that I don't see any relevant cards for Shadow Mist to search as Blazeman loses relevance when you probably only want to run the 6 Level 4 Igknights meaning you probably can't really think on trying to make First of the Dragons too often. Maybe you could have a tech Bubbleman to extend some plays, but other than him I'm struggling for other Heroes to play, although obviously it's not necessary.

I haven't really got around to testing anything due to lack of tournaments to look forward to, as well as well DN being DN. So I'm not entirely sure how many Scales people are feeling the need to play in some sort of Pendulum Spam.dek and whether or not you want to justify running too many if any non-Level 4 ones. Like most Igknight lists have 8-9 Scale 2 and 7s excluding Archfiend Eccentrick as I'd always think of her as a bonus Scale that you generally don't get to use. Looking over it, if we ignore the non-Igknight Normal monsters, we have Igknight Paladin and Magical Abductor as the good ones with Scale <4 and if you want more you need to either run a Vanilla or Performapal Camelump.... so yeah I guess you'd need to consider some non-Level 4s there if having 7+ Scales helps the consistency. Scale >5 on the other hand seems fine as you have Igknight Templar, Luster Pendulum, maybe Rescue Hamster and one option that does seem interesting is P.M. Captor. While I'm doubting you'll Pendulum any Zombies other than himself getting some recursion could be good, although it's probably too slow and long-game, but outside of that it's still good for the level and stats.

As I say I really should look into it if only to see if I can find some good pre-DOCS use for the Dracoslayers. I think the biggest concern I have for these lists is that you might need to invest far too heavily into the Pendulums to make the deck reliable and then you're struggling for space to fit in the generic good stuff, or backrow. At it's core the Pendulum mechanic is pretty ridiculous with the idea of constantly recurring stuff to possibly just keep Synchroing more threats, although that's obviously impacted by the lack of an actual generic Pendulum tuner, it's just finding the space to fit everything in without needing to head towards something like the size of the Long Dao Mermail or Billy Brake's 60 card Shaddoll, BA, Artifact thing.

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Zefra Dracoslayer is pretty much worthless until DOCS because of how integral Majester Paladin is.

Since the Zefras all lock you into Pendulum Summoning Zefras only, Luster Pendulum can only be normal summoned or grabbed off of Ignister/Majester.

You can make Ignister off of 2 Level 4 Zefras + Zefraxi, Zefraxa + Zefraxi, Zefraxa + Birdman (this is insane because Birdman can let you turn Pend monsters back into scales, while at the same time transforming scales into monsters with Zefracore)

A lot of people hate Zefracore but Zefracore lets you extend combos and turn 1 Pendulum Summoned monster into 2, and given that Dracoslayer is a 2-card investment for 2 scales + 1 Pendulum in the Extra, you get a ton of value while also emptying your Scale in order to set and duplicate a different monster with Dracoslayer the next turn.

Zefra essentially have the same 4x Dracoslayer combo as nicEMeme, but you gain utility of ridiculous cards when doing so.

I feel like Abductor and Eccentrick are kind of useless since you can't summon Zefraxi with Abductor, while Eccentrick only becomes a crappy one-use MST since you can't summon it back.

If I was to seriously take Zefra Dracoslayer into a game pre-DOCS, this is probably what I'd have:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

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I was playing around with some friends and I realized that the Spellbooks and Clown Engine have some synergy with one another. I've been playing around with it since. Might make a Deck garage post later

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I was playing around with some friends and I realized that the Spellbooks and Clown Engine have some synergy with one another. I've been playing around with it since. Might make a Deck garage post later

I think in this type of build it is better to just cut out things like priestess from the build and focus more on the rank 4 engine. Clowns work well with the spellbook cards but they don't work very well with the prophecy cards. I really liked a build with summoner monk and magical exemplar along with jigabyte and the archfiend eater monster. Exemplar reviving effect veiler for trishula access is also pretty awesome alongside summoning trick clown. This type of build can also abuse norden.

Once per turn, during either player's Main Phase: You can banish both this face-up card on the field and 1 random card in your opponent's hand until your next Standby Phase. During your opponent's Standby Phase: You can target 1 banished card; return it to the Graveyard. If this card is in your Graveyard: You can target 1 other card in any Graveyard; shuffle both that card and this card into the Deck.

the cool little interactions with returning banish mezukis and trolling by banishing from the field makes this card really unusual but fun. the last sentence is like a mini avarice without draws tho. the card is literally made for zombie synchros :O

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So, first post in a while, bare with me if things sound a bit off as I just started playing again. In regards to exploring opportunities with Igknights and Pendulums, I believe that using Satallars as their foil is the best route to go with. The reason for this is just because of the advantage you gain from summoning Tellars, and adding another method to summon per turn has a lot of merit. Another merit of running the two together is they are both searchable by Rota, and have synergy with the fact they are lv 4s. A few of the downfalls however, is that we need to run the lv 3s at the very least to help consistency and making scales but other then that they don't do much. Another issue is making sure that it's consistent, since we are mashing 2 different decks together to make one product. Below is my current rough draft:

[spoiler] http://i.imgur.com/EowsQrc.png [/spoiler]

So the first thing I'll cover is ratios. I dedicated 9 Spots to Satallar monsters, the standard 3/3 of Altair and Deneb and 2/1 of Unak and Vega, due to the fact we are running instant fusion and can get more out of a Unak over Vega. As for Igknights I run 12, 3 of each lv 3 and 4, as it increases our chance to draw into a working scale and possibly other plays. From there, I also run 3 Upstart and 3 Rota to make sure I get better access to pieces without having to run sub-optimal cards. From my choices were based off some obvious choices in terms of one ofs, and what is more of a standard from Satellar.

Some of the other things I considered was running the lv 5 and 6 Igknights over the 3s, as it lets me run summoner's art and that builds our ability to do Pend plays. However the trade off would be losing 3 slots which go to solid one-ofs, Alpha which is very strong (but suffers when we are already bricked..) or cards like instant which fall under the same boat. The argument simply becomes, is the deck consistent enough to run cards that require some form of setup, or do we nix them for the added consistency but lose power/control because of it.

Another route I think we can explore in the present are Gadgets. The fact that Gadgets replace themselves when summoned in any method allows us to keep resources for pushes in the following turns. The downfalls of this approach is that the Gadgets require you to have something to play with it and are very underwhelming when you don't have a way to go into a XYZ. The other issue being that Rank 4's are not really the strongest atm, with Satellar we have access to things like Trivver, but Gadgets only really get GGX which is just a consistency tool. I'm going to explore a few more options and do some more testing, but I feel like this is a proper starting point.

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ok so I was partially baited by the madolche ideas people posted in here, and unfortunately I'm not sure if this truly solves any of the deck's issues but a recent suggestion I've seen in some Japanese sites is the concept of Speedroid Madolche

Basically it's the same idea as its implementation in that Wind-Up deck a while back - a Rank 3 engine that doesn't eat your Normal Summon - but it does have the same issue of "if you draw any other part of the engine aside from Beygomax/Terrortops, you're fucked"

I also agree that pendulums are probably pretty useful in the deck (and I'm hoping they get some of their own once the deck becomes old enough for legacy support) - Risebelt and Eccentrick work well for scales and Risebelt's P-effect helps with the Level mismatch that often occurs if you're stuck with Mewfeuille

Sadly I'm not as up to date on the interplays and other factors between the top decks at the moment, so I'm not sure if the deck's strengths provide any particular edge in this format

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"just had an idea, maybe someone can make use of it for san jose (won't be there unfortunately)

majespecter hero. its just like the igknight hero deck but the pend cards are good and the hero cards supporting prisma and cyber dragon gives you an edge against the new kozmo support and also because the majespecter extra isn't that tight regardless you have room to play all the chimeratech dark law etc and shit. also a dark law board backed by the majespecter traps sounds lit. also it could possibly incorporate magical abductor and a veiler gaining counters via upstart/ecall/rota/other scale/mask change then searching either a pend card if a scale or if in monster zone getting a 1-of veiler to beat denko."

"also the dark law boards are less susceptible to dark hole cus of the indestructible eff of all the majespecters."

"also luster pend is OD strong, and also branching from the point about having more extra deck space you'll be able to play the ignister synchro as well"

"the hero cards do combo with pend cards tho cus the whole entire interaction with igknight hero too is pend summoning shadow mist so you can get mask change without having to use shit cards like goblindgberg or w/e. and majespecter without it p much sucks cus once you take away the shitty ones you have way too much filler space with just the cards in this deck to where it make sense to play something with it that works with the pend mechanic.

and you def will have the scales for the most part between 12 majespecter and like at least 6 other pend cards which are prob gonna be 3 and 5 (abductor luster), meaning like 9 5s and 9 3s not even counting if you're playing one that rota can get, that probably being the way in which you can solve whatever consistency paradoxes. also keep in mind racoon can search a correct pendulum scale, so that's even less bricking."

"and if you mean the s/t as in the majespecter cards, you can just minimize them cus they're searchable to avoid that issue, you don't have to maxx on any of em"

"the other thing is like, i actually think the spell that destroys a monster is shit but with dark law it becomes really good cus it turns into the trap that you can use now on either players turn, which is another argument against pure majespecter. you can also bridge the gap between rota and your majespecters by having one of it's targets be a pendulum monster, as mentioned a bit earlier. i actually think it's better than the igknights cus the pendulum cards in igknights had no effects which meant the only way they could do anything through multiple backrows was with jinzo/denko sekka. the need for that is much less with these cards cus their pend cards are actual floaters now, meaning rather they got a trap or not you're fine. plus this is also convenient cus these scales don't support jinzo and that needs to be made up in some way vs backrow decks"

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Had Nekroz not been entirely destroyed by the banlist, opening something like Manju -> Unicore, and then using Terraforming to search Secret Village could be a considerable play against EMem, since they can't really play without spells (Pendulum Scales!!!)

Might still be able to Skullcrobat + Jigabyte into an out, but you could easily have your own things as well.

2 Field + 1 Terraforming gives you the same chance of drawing a field as running 3 would, without actually playing 3.

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Terraforming can search Zombie world/necrovalley. This seems like a strong side deck strategy for any deck that has a field spell. Sorry this seemed like the most appropriate thread to post this in.

Closed forest could be used to counter Kozmo.

They can function with Kozmotown and they also have engine outs to Closed Forest. You need to be stopping the unfair part of the engine and that's their floating and ability to put a load of damage on board. Right now the cards you want are Imperial Iron Wall and Light-Imprisoning Mirror; IIW stops them cold but can be outed by a tribute summoned/Reasoning'd Sliprider and LIM only stops the original support + Strawman, but they have no engine outs to it.

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You can Special Summon this card (from your hand) to your opponent's side of the field in Attack Position, by Tributing 1 monster they control. If your opponent controls a "Kaiju" monster, you can Special Summon this card (from your hand) in Attack Position. You can only control 1 "Kaiju" monster. During either player's turn, when your opponent activates a card or effect, except "Gameciel, the Sea Turtle Kaiju": You can remove 2 Kaiju Counters from anywhere on the field; negate the activation, and if you do, banish that card.

Kyotou Waterfront

Each time a card(s) is sent from the field to the Graveyard, place 1Kaiju Counter on this card for each sent card (max. 5). Once per turn, while 3 or more Kaiju Counters are on this card: You can add 1 "Kaiju"monster from your Deck to your hand. If this card would be destroyed, you can remove 1 Kaiju Counter from this card instead

I can't think of any way to consistently do it, but if you could find a way to get a Kyotou Waterfront with 5 counters + Gameciel, the Sea Turtle Kaiju turn one, you probably just win. That's automatically two negates, and probably three since it's unlikely the opponent will be able to play three cards without putting one of them in the grave. You don't even have to summon Gameciel from the deck, since Kyotou Waterfront searches without removing any counters.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a good way to summon Gameciel from the hand. It's level 8, and apparently every 9 scale is restricted to only Pendulum Summoning their own archetype. Aqua is basically the only obscure attribute that Hanzo can't summon. You could play Mausoleum but that conflicts with Waterfront pretty badly, and could only feasibly work if you hard draw a Gameciel. Using the strategy of summoning a Kaiju to their field and then summoning Gamaciel to yours also seems terrible, since not only can the opponent use your Kaiju counters for the Kaijus you summon to their field, but you couldn't summon Gameciel turn one, and even if you can you would have to summon it in attack, where it's susceptible to Clown rank 4 plays.

You also have to find a way to consistently get 5 counters on Waterfront, although that's somewhat mitigated by Upstarts and Terraformings.

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Genex undine dumps gameciel for call of the haunted or other revival and can get counters by dumping other stuff. Lol at atlanteans Kaijua being potentialy good.

Atlanteans put at least 5 cards in grave per turn and can spam the field to either summon gameciel or dump it to summon so they fulfill the engines conditions within their own engine. They also have their own win con, and gaios kaiju sounds kinda dirty. Might be worth looking into.