It's really ironic that someone can say that FDR was warned and nobody gives it a second thought but if anyone were to dare say that everyone's good ole buddy GWB knew we are called conspiricy nuts. SMH.

wow, you can find a way to slam bush and connect him with anything. let's see, it has been 60 years since pearl harbor. you think if people started saying fdr knew immediate nobody would have given it a second thought?

Star_Cards

12-02-2011, 03:50 PM

I've the conspiracy theory that the US was looking for a reason to get into the war and pearl harbor was the perfect event to get the american public okay with the entry. I'm not sure I buy it but it's an interesting thought. The War did allow for the country to get out of the depression. It's also interesting to think what would have happened had we been able to minimize this attack. Would we still had entered? Would even more countries and people have been taken over and murdered by hitler? Would we have ever joined in?

I guess the bottom line is whether FDR or Bush, I'd hope that the lives of thousands of people would far outweigh the opportunity to get to an end like entering WWII or entering Iraq.

sanfran22

12-02-2011, 03:58 PM

I'm no fan of FDR to say the least but I find this part kinda interesting.....
Japan is vigorously utilizing every available agency to secure military, naval and commercial information, paying particular attention to the West Coast, the Panama Canal and the Territory of Hawaii."
How does that say Pearl Harbor? Kinda broad if you ask me. We can all look back and see things we probably should have done, but this doesn't scream he know exact details.
Also, why is this coming out now? It's been questioned for years.....

Hilfiger1975

12-02-2011, 04:59 PM

One more example to show you how much the Government thinks of it's troops and Americans in general...

ensbergcollector

12-02-2011, 05:06 PM

I'm no fan of FDR to say the least but I find this part kinda interesting.....
Japan is vigorously utilizing every available agency to secure military, naval and commercial information, paying particular attention to the West Coast, the Panama Canal and the Territory of Hawaii."
How does that say Pearl Harbor? Kinda broad if you ask me. We can all look back and see things we probably should have done, but this doesn't scream he know exact details.
Also, why is this coming out now? It's been questioned for years.....

yeah, i love what passes for "they knew." We have no idea how many types of memo's they get and saying japan, at war, is paying attention to the west coast, hawaii, and panama canal is in no way a warning about pearl harbor.

habsheaven

12-02-2011, 10:47 PM

I do not buy for a second that either FDR or Bush knew of imminent attacks. Bush had his faults but I know he was not the kind of man that would allow something like that to happen.

OBOMBA

12-05-2011, 05:46 AM

of course he knew. war=money for personal interests.

5 billion dollars disappeared from the us treasury one day before 9/11, let me guess coincidence and im crazy?

habsheaven

12-05-2011, 07:46 AM

of course he knew. war=money for personal interests.

5 billion dollars disappeared from the us treasury one day before 9/11, let me guess coincidence and im crazy?

Can you explain the connection between the two? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

mrveggieman

12-05-2011, 09:03 AM

I do not buy for a second that either FDR or Bush knew of imminent attacks. Bush had his faults but I know he was not the kind of man that would allow something like that to happen.

You and I agree on some of the issues but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. If bush is going to use lies and faulty intellegence to put millions of innocent lives on the line to start an illegal war in iraq you what's to say that he wouldn't have knew in advance of 9/11 and just sat on it so that he would have justification for his war?

habsheaven

12-05-2011, 09:22 AM

You and I agree on some of the issues but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. If bush is going to use lies and faulty intellegence to put millions of innocent lives on the line to start an illegal war in iraq you what's to say that he wouldn't have knew in advance of 9/11 and just sat on it so that he would have justification for his war?

I see where you are coming from but I think there is a line drawn between those two things. For me, I can't see Bush crossing THAT line.

duane1969

12-05-2011, 09:40 AM

Can you explain the connection between the two? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

The conspiracy theorists argue that the missing money was "covered up" by 9/11. Apparently George Bush stole $5 billion and had 9/11 occur to distract us from it.

It's the grassy knoll theory. No proof exists that it is true, but since no proof exists that it is false, it must be true.

habsheaven

12-05-2011, 10:07 AM

The conspiracy theorists argue that the missing money was "covered up" by 9/11. Apparently George Bush stole $5 billion and had 9/11 occur to distract us from it.

It's the grassy knoll theory. No proof exists that it is true, but since no proof exists that it is false, it must be true.

Okay, I gotcha. I thought maybe there was something with some merit that I missed. lol

pghin08

12-05-2011, 10:20 AM

You and I agree on some of the issues but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. If bush is going to use lies and faulty intellegence to put millions of innocent lives on the line to start an illegal war in iraq you what's to say that he wouldn't have knew in advance of 9/11 and just sat on it so that he would have justification for his war?

I'm a conspiracy kinda guy, but no. He wouldn't. For several reasons:

A. The US was already heading towards recession, anyone with some semblance of sense would know that an attack on the epicenter of global commerce wouldn't reflect well on the stock market, and would help expedite the recession process (it did).

B. The ball was dropped way more by Condoleeza Rice than Bush. Yeah George got that memo like a month before the attacks, but stuff like that crosses the President's desk on a constant basis. Intelligence failings started well before Bush was even in office.

C. Bush wasn't even the guy clamoring for war. That was Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Researching 9/11 has been a bit of a hobby of mine, and I've just never seen any really significant evidence that Bush knew exactly when or how the attacks would happen, just vague information that al-Qaeda was working on a plan to use aircrafts as missiles.

The FDR thing is crap too. While the general populous didn't want to get involved in WWII, the administration, by 1941, knew it was basically inevitable. It didn't need a Pearl Harbor. Plus the info that reached Roosevelt was extremely vague and has been sensationalized over the years.

duane1969

12-05-2011, 10:32 AM

Okay, I gotcha. I thought maybe there was something with some merit that I missed. lol

What is more, it was supposed to be $2 trillion missing, not $5 billion. I could see $5 billion going missing, but find it hard to believe that $2 trillion came up missing.

Additionally, Donald Rumsfeld is the one who revealed the missing money. Since he was a part of George W.'s cabinet it would seem a bit of a stretch that George W.'s administration was both covering it up and revealing it.

Third, the missing money was identified as either misspent or undocumented Pentagon spending. Since George W. took office less than 9 months before 9/11 then logic would indicate that at least some of the missing money was spent before he took office, so he would have been covering up for Clinton too.

The whole conspiracy thing holds no water.

mrveggieman

12-05-2011, 10:39 AM

So with all of the might and intellegence of the US gov't you are saying that it is possible for a weak country like afganistan with the help of an even weaker country such as iraq like you...

sanfran22

12-05-2011, 10:44 AM

First off, no country launched an attack. Secondly should Bill Clinton have been fired as well? Or was it just GWB's problem?

pghin08

12-05-2011, 10:48 AM

First off, no country launched an attack. Secondly should Bill Clinton have been fired as well? Or was it just GWB's problem?

There were intelligence failures for a long time, stretching between administrations. There were also some people trying to emphasize it's importance, and they were promptly dismissed.

sanfran22

12-05-2011, 10:49 AM

There were intelligence failures for a long time, stretching between administrations. There were also some people trying to emphasize it's importance, and they were promptly dismissed.

I agree with you, but apparently some on this board believe GWB was the sole screwup in the matter.

pghin08

12-05-2011, 10:55 AM

I agree with you, but apparently some on this board believe GWB was the sole screwup in the matter.

There were so many people that messed up. Yet I always thought it was funny that the ONLY apology for 9/11 came from someone (Richard Clarke) who did everything in his power to prevent it from happening.

mrveggieman

12-05-2011, 10:59 AM

First off, no country launched an attack. Secondly should Bill Clinton have been fired as well? Or was it just GWB's problem?

So tell me again while we wasted billions of dollars and thousands of lives in iraq?

meuandthelot

12-05-2011, 10:59 AM

Not conspiracies really, our leaders-3 letter agencies have always been willing to do whatever it takes to keep the nation safe as evidenced further by JFK(who rejected) and operation Northwoods brainstorm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

sanfran22

12-05-2011, 11:01 AM

So tell me again while we wasted billions of dollars and thousands of lives in iraq?

You can't answer a question with a question.

pghin08

12-05-2011, 11:03 AM

So tell me again while we wasted billions of dollars and thousands of lives in iraq?

Two words: Cheney, Rumsfeld.

mrveggieman

12-05-2011, 11:07 AM

You can't answer a question with a question.

When did we started having rules on P&R?

sanfran22

12-05-2011, 11:08 AM

When did we started having rules on P&R?

Not a rule, just a fact. Just trying to get you to answer since you usually dodge...

duane1969

12-05-2011, 11:10 AM

Intelligence today and intelligence during and prior to 9/11 are vastly different. <br />
<br />
Also, blaming Bush when Clinton clearly dropped the ball in many instances is just partisan grandstanding. ...

meuandthelot

12-05-2011, 11:15 AM

From what duane1969 posted ^^

and They all forgot about this evidently, pertains to Clinton thru Bush. Plenty of oopsies to go around

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml

ensbergcollector

12-05-2011, 11:34 AM

When did we started having rules on P&R?

lol...you have tried to claim more "rules" than anyone

pghin08

12-05-2011, 11:53 AM

Intelligence today and intelligence during and prior to 9/11 are vastly different.

Also, blaming Bush when Clinton clearly dropped the ball in many instances is just partisan grandstanding.
*Clinton was in office in 1998 when bin Laden signed the fatwa to kill Americans and announced that it would be "easy to kill Americans" and said that the world would see soon.
*Clinton was in office when the 9/11 hijackers entered the US under Visas and were not deported when their Visas expired.
*Clinton was in office in 1998 when the CIA reported that al-Queda was preparing for attacks in the US.
*Clinton was in office when the 1998 US Embassy bombings were linked to bin Laden and all that was done was placing him on the FBI Most Wanted list.
*Clinton was in office in 2000 when a plan to attack the US was revealed and foiled. Part of that plan involved a target in the US.

Blaming Bush when Clinton clearly had chances to implement preventative measures but did not is way off base.

Spot on, sir. Plenty of blame to go around.

OBOMBA

12-05-2011, 06:36 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnQTcLHaMMit was actually 2.3 TRILLION but yeah money just disappears from the US treasury LOL are people that clueless today?
nvm just WOW no wonder people are so ignorant today.

AND ITS FUNNY HOW THIS NEVER BECAME A BIG STORY IN THE NEWS, HUH? open your eyes please.

LOL at the gullible. this is why corruption is so prominent in america no one is open minded to anything.

so let me guess JFK and and bobby kennedy both died out of coincidence even though they both wanted to end the war in vietnam? a war that was CRIMINAL. SAD. and lyndon b johnson becomes president and the war continues. o wow. what a coincidence. some people are just people just brainwashed.[thats not an insult ]

ensbergcollector

12-05-2011, 06:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnQTcLHaMMit was actually 2.3 TRILLION but yeah money just disappears from the US treasury LOL are people that clueless today?
nvm just WOW no wonder people are so ignorant today.

AND ITS FUNNY HOW THIS NEVER BECAME A BIG STORY IN THE NEWS, HUH? open your eyes please.

LOL at the gullible. this is why corruption is so prominent in america no one is open minded to anything.

so let me guess JFK and and bobby kennedy both died out of coincidence even though they both wanted to end the war in vietnam? a war that was CRIMINAL. SAD. and lyndon b johnson becomes president and the war continues. o wow. what a coincidence. some people are just people just brainwashed.[thats not an insult thats reality]

you realize if JFK had his way we would have been doing a lot dumber things militarily then we already were right?

mikesilvia

12-06-2011, 07:32 AM

I do not buy for a second that either FDR or Bush knew of imminent attacks. Bush had his faults but I know he was not the kind of man that would allow something like that to happen.

My thoughts exactly. People who don't understand military intelligence take "memos" as "gotchas". There are reports of attacks everyday in America today. You simply can't act on every single report. They need to be credible.

Did the U.S. think Hawaii could be a target during WWII? Of course. They also thought California and New York were targets as well.

Did people think the twin towers could be targets? Of course because they were bombed 8 years earlier. Thousands of U.S. facilities were targets and likely reported through memos.

Neither President knew of a preventable attack and let it happened, or planned the attack themselves. To think other wise with zero proof is silly.

duane1969

12-06-2011, 08:55 AM

was actually 2.3 TRILLION but yeah money just disappears from the US treasury LOL are people that clueless today?
nvm just WOW no wonder people are so ignorant today.

AND ITS FUNNY HOW THIS NEVER BECAME A BIG STORY IN THE NEWS, HUH? open your eyes please.

LOL at the gullible. this is why corruption is so prominent in america no one is open minded to anything.

so let me guess JFK and and bobby kennedy both died out of coincidence even though they both wanted to end the war in vietnam? a war that was CRIMINAL. SAD. and lyndon b johnson becomes president and the war continues. o wow. what a coincidence. some people are just people just brainwashed.[thats not an insult ]

So anyone that doesn't jump on the conspiracy bandwagon is ignorant, gullible, close-minded and brainwashed?

sanfran22

12-06-2011, 09:42 AM

So anyone that doesn't jump on the conspiracy bandwagon is ignorant, gullible, close-minded and brainwashed?

lol....

pghin08

12-07-2011, 09:54 AM

So anyone that doesn't jump on the conspiracy bandwagon is ignorant, gullible, close-minded and brainwashed?