I'm something of a bitter tank. I spent years as a paladin, watching everyone's bars, monitoring the threat situation, using every tool in my kit AND assigning CC (save for the end of Wrath when we were conditioned to believe heroics should be steamrolled) for situations that demanded it. That Cataclysm demands that kind of coordination and management isn't lost on me.

It only demands that coordination when you freshly dinged 85. By now I'm already steamrolling through the heroics again, only using CC if there's more than a single healer in the pack, because, y'know, DPS and doing their job right .

Yeah, having to wait for healer mana is something I forgot about in the first two days of running HCs, but quickly relearned I blame WotLK, where, unless we got an ICC HC, I asked the Healer if he had a DPS offspec.

It only demands that coordination when you freshly dinged 85. By now I'm already steamrolling through the heroics again, only using CC if there's more than a single healer in the pack, because, y'know, DPS and doing their job right .

Yeah, having to wait for healer mana is something I forgot about in the first two days of running HCs, but quickly relearned I blame WotLK, where, unless we got an ICC HC, I asked the Healer if he had a DPS offspec.

Anyone on EU Trollbane Alliance side?

Here's where your country and mine differ. I have to consistently remind the DPS to use their interrupts and spell locks every other pull. US Garona Horde? I'm looking at you.

I'm loving the new HC dungeons, I just hate that no-one in my guild does them (I was the first to hit 329, and was the only one for a while). Also, unless I manage to get a guild run missing a dps, there's only a slim chance of a good run. SO if anyone's on EU-Darkmoon Faire Ally, I'd love to meet up with you ingame sometime

Oh, is it just me, or are the new abilities for rogues past lvl 80 kinda useless? I'm an assassination rogue btw

Halls of Origination is MEAN.. (My first heroic in Cata). I did it with a pug in the Random selector, it was pretty okay. Turns out that ret pali CC talents actually work against something now.

Ret CC was good in WotLK as well (actually better, since there are a lot of Elemental only packs in Cataclysm, which can't be Ret CCed). Now Ret is also one of the best interrupt classes. I like where Ret is going. I'm using it as my offspec, and I like how pressing the right buttons is now double the DPS over facerolling, where it was a 1% damage increase in WotLK.

Shamans and Hunters seem the best for CC nowadays. Shamans can Hex and Bind Elemental. Hunters can trap 1 target, sleep a 2nd target, scare a third target (if any beasts are around), and kite a 4th target over frost patches. Given, they need to be Survival for that, but Survival seems to be the best DPS spec nowadays, so pretty much all hunters have that spec.

HoO can be a pain, yes. Though if you have a decent group, and they don't need the 4 optional bosses, it's a quick run for the endboss. Compared to long and tedious instances (Deadmines and Stonecore, I'm looking at you!), I find it a breeze. However, if the group turns out to be a total mess and keeps wiping on the first boss, I just bail.

Anyways, always looking forward to having people to talk to over on Ravenholdt - Horde (US/RP-PvP)

Is the US Ravenholdt a gankfest server as is the EU one (I am in EU Ravenholdt). World PvP is top notch in EU Ravenholdt and lots PvP activity in TB.

Anycase I myself love all heroics as they are harder and demand actually time and devotion to do. What I hate are pugs who do not bother to try nor focus on boss or try do more than intended (like do achievements which should be ONLY done by guild runs and prepared to wipe when otherwise you would do the boss).

So far my favorite HC's are in no particullar order; Deadmines (brings lots memories), Vortex Pinnacle (quick and also lots CC oppoturnities in end) and Grim Batol (very challenging bosses and major role for my frost mage in all bosses expect second one).

Also leveling has been nice, leveling atm my Spriest and loving the Dark Archangel buff visual! I would wish I could be disc specced so I get golden wings also but I guess I got my holy palla for that (eventually once I level him, also holy priests are kick ass raid healers atm).

Also my guild is nice as we aim for achievements and such get all guild granted rewards, all are hyped about Dark Phoenixes but we know that will be quite major mojo to do. But we got two or three raid days a week so we kind of slack a lot most of time but most reason is that folks are still gearing up. But still our guild does invidual 10 man runs where is meant gear up guildies for 25 man and teach tacs through actual experience. But the 10 mans depend entirely what time and place officers are online and who bothers make those runs. Perk from 10 man is that all loot is DKP free but downside you do not gain any DKP either (to balance out with peeps who do not do 10 mans).

But I myself love the blue dungeon set and altough I got HC 5 man drops which are good as JP bought pieces I want collect whole set just for how cool it looks. Especially on mage the hat is kickass

Anyways what comes to rogue new spells the only real PvE use is the Redirect; I can tell how many times I have been frustrated when I kill mob with openers and waste generated Combo Points and I got 1-2 other mobs on me or in tank! So Redirect is very nice. The Combat Readiness is very nice leveling skill and good vs other rogues when you survive or take them out of stealth (and PvP in general). In PvE only rare case it can be nice survival tool (vs bonestorm example in ICC). Smokebomb is kinda mystery, if rogue pulls and puts that on, it makes mobs come to inside smokebomb area. It is not real use for raids to let rogue pull as it negates LoS to the tank and for ranged DPS, so pure PvP skill I guess and also one tools for rogue to pull caster mobs to himself if he aggroes any during leveling.

Anyways what comes to rogue new spells the only real PvE use is the Redirect; I can tell how many times I have been frustrated when I kill mob with openers and waste generated Combo Points and I got 1-2 other mobs on me or in tank! So Redirect is very nice. The Combat Readiness is very nice leveling skill and good vs other rogues when you survive or take them out of stealth (and PvP in general). In PvE only rare case it can be nice survival tool (vs bonestorm example in ICC). Smokebomb is kinda mystery, if rogue pulls and puts that on, it makes mobs come to inside smokebomb area. It is not real use for raids to let rogue pull as it negates LoS to the tank and for ranged DPS, so pure PvP skill I guess and also one tools for rogue to pull caster mobs to himself if he aggroes any during leveling.

Smoke Bomb doesn't only affect the rogue, you know. If there's a lot of long-range aggression coming in you can drop the smoke bomb on, say, the tank to make everything that wants to shoot him run to him. He can move out of the smoke once they're closer so he can get healed, or the healer can just stand in the smoke with him, depending on the needs of the encounter. You can also smoke bomb on enemy NPCs if they're getting healed to prevent that, I believe.

The new rogue skills seem more oriented toward pvp than pve, but that doesn't mean they're useless if you think creatively a bit. ;p

Bah. Seems like whenever I read a thread on WoW no one else in it ever plays on Shadow Council. D:

Recuperate kinda counts as new 'active' rogue skill from Cata. But it was assigned so low level so it helps with leveling new rogue alts or new players who roll rogues.

But true, rogues get more and more cooldowns which have situational use and so far all focus on sheer survival increase (and makes them that more OP in PvP). Also talent tree revamp kinda added few new buttons to push besides few (combat example needs hit at least once revelation strike before reaching four or five combo points to increase finisher dmg).

But it's kind hard to make any new spammable attack skills to rogue without screwing up the invidual talent tree key skills. Assassination rogues focus on eviscerate and using mutilate, combat rogues sinister strike and eviscerate and sublety focus entirely on openers and finish the finishing moves fast.

I myself would wish sublety would get talent tree tied new finisher than eviscerate, something which works like envenom (ignores armor) but something unique. Perhaps heavy shadow dmg strike? Like 'umbral strike' which functions like Unholy Scourge Strike (but makes extra dmg if target is bleeding). As atm armor is one reasons why Sublety sucks, combat rogues faces also armor but they can spam twice or even three times more than other classes and are dominant physical rogue dmg spec. Assassination is all about poisons and using envenom (and speedy dagger attacks).

I could say rogues could use somesort new dmg buff talent in next expansions (like perhaps create dozen shadow clones which mimic mage Mirror Image but they melee their target and redirect any attacks from rogue towards clone which absords one hit per clone) or somesort new cool utility ability (like able give raid dmg reduction from mass smoke bomb). Rogues got AoE tool in Wotlk (Fan of Knives which was mostly combat rogue thing but with talent revamp assassination became king of AoE with their poison spread with fan of knives).

I need to find a better way to lay out my screen. Keeping an eye on the critters, keeping an eye on holy power, running my cooldowns, watching for procs to use my 'freebie' hits, and watching the threat meter for losing threat to warlocks/mages/boomkin.

I don't really track my holy power. I use Ovale, which is awesome for ret, but not as useful for prot. Either way, whenever I have 3 HP, it shows Shield of the Righteous on the middle of my screen, so I know to press either that or Word of Glory. I then just press that button until the icon disappears from my screen. (That same icon also tells me when HoW is ready, and when my next CD will be off CD)

I also recommend an addon that reduces the size of the ingame view. I use CT Viewport myself to move the bottom of the ingame view 160 pixels above the bottom of my screen, allowing me to place lots of stuff there without cluttering my ingame view, including skill bars, omen, recount, oRa tank list and others.

Admitted, I'm running 1920x1200 on a 24", using the smallest possible interface scale, so I have quite a bit of room to place various addon windows.

Also, Tiny Plates: Thread Plates is an awesome addon if you're a tank, easily showing you for each mob on your screen if you have "no aggro on the mob", "just barely enough aggro on the mob" or "a sizable lead in aggro on the mob".

Rogues are fine, they don't need anything. That class has been designed to deal the physical and poison damage. I love being a rogue, if you are tired of sinister strike spamming then try subtley or assassination, it's not like SS is the main damage output for rogues anyway.

I need to find a better way to lay out my screen. Keeping an eye on the critters, keeping an eye on holy power, running my cooldowns, watching for procs to use my 'freebie' hits, and watching the threat meter for losing threat to warlocks/mages/boomkin.

It's fun though, busy but fun.

I use a combination of IceHUD and vuhdo for threat monitoring and tanking. It makes a holy power indicator below your character so that it's easy to monitor in peripheral vision instead of glancing up at the default indicator. It also puts bars up around your character so that you can monitor mana and health of you and your target as well.

The vuhdo is nice for knowing who you're losing threat to and quickly applying WoG for spot heals, RD or any applicable hands for the situation. Salv for rogues and hunters, Protection for clothies, Sacrifice for plate wearers. Works pretty well for me.

Salvation for rogues and hunters? That's a waste. Hunters are aggro machines, yes, but they also have Feign Death, so they should be able to handle their own aggro. Rogues rarely overaggro, and they also have an emergency aggro drop themselves. Best save salvation for Warriors and DKs, that do not have built-in aggro dumps.

I rarely find myself in a need to know exactly how many Holy Power I have, only if I have 3 HP or less than 3 HP. I usually even know that simply by counting and using the following rotation:

- Crusader Strike (Or Hammer of the Righteous for packs) -> 1 HP- Judgement- Crusader Strike (Or Hammer of the Righteous for packs) -> 2 HP- Hammer of Wrath if available, else Avenger's Shield if available, else Holy Wrath (priority can be altered for packs)- Crusader Strike (Or Hammer of the Righteous for packs) -> 3 HP- Shield of the Righteous (or Word of Glory). In case you miss or Eternal Glory procs, keep spamming this until the HP is gone.- Repeat from start.

Ah, well, it's slightly different in 5 mans (even HCs), as a plate wearer won't die just from overaggroing one mob. It's somewhat different in raids if those Warriors and DKs are bashing the boss for 16k DPS.

I have a lot of DKs and Warriors in my guild, and even when no guildies want to come along, I often end up with at least one warrior or DK.

This is why I use Sacrifice on Plate wearers and save the other hands for other classes.

Yeah, for a Heroics point of view, that makes sense. It doesn't cut it in raids, which is how I look at things. Heroics is just charging through AoE packs with the occasional boss for the daily 70 valor points. Unless I have a crappy healer, using CC annoys me.

Yeah, for a Heroics point of view, that makes sense. It doesn't cut it in raids, which is how I look at things. Heroics is just charging through AoE packs with the occasional boss for the daily 70 valor points. Unless I have a crappy healer, using CC annoys me.

Still, Salvation on a Hunter remains a waste.

If a crappy healer is all that induces CC for you I envy your battlegroup. Clearly your DPS has a better grasp on how and when to use interrupt/stun/silence mechanics than my own.