Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; As I live, says the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became food to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; Therefore, O you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be food for them. For thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search for my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered on a cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a rich pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, says the Lord GOD. I will seek those who were lost, and bring again those who were driven away, and will bind up those who were broken, and will strengthen those who were sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment. Ezekiel 34:7-16

Welcome

On this blog is posted my personal recollections of the origins, goals and purposes of an aberrant church named "The Assembly of the Body of Christ" (ABC). Originally just called "The Group" this church / denomination was started in 1969 by my father, Ramon A Haas. I was fourteen years of age then and while the beginnings of this denomination were far from peaceable, over the last four plus decades it has evolved into an even less peaceable organization bringing great harm to many people due to it’s spiritually abusive practices. The true origins of the ABC's doctrines have been kept deliberately hidden from the members from the very beginning. I too was ignorant of the origins until I well into adulthood researched the true roots of the church. What I found in this research was that the doctrines followed had been established well before I was even born. It was a painful endeavor for me to search back through the years but after my final ouster from the "Assembly of the Body of Christ" church for the “crime of blasphemy” I found it necessary to understand the ability of a group of people who purport to show love to be so spiritually and genuinely cruel. In some ways it was therapeutic to finally understand how it came to be that my dad could create an organization that could so easily and deeply harm people. In my research I discovered the roots are buried quite deep and those who have been members for a long period; if they can be honest with themselves; will know when they read this it is true.

While it is generally reported that the ABC sprang spontaneously from a small bible study at the Wilcrest Apartments in Seattle Washington I discovered this was not at all accurate. My research showed the ABC stemmed straight out of the doctrines of several denominations and movements; mainly from a Pentecostal root; and was then well fertilized with major influences of several other aberrant movements such as the “Shepherding Movement" and Bob Larson ministries. The doctrines from these other movements intertwine the roots and only become clearly visible when one takes the time to dig up the roots completely and then observe the path they follow closely. Once the roots are fully exposed it is not difficult to see the denominational origins of the ABC. This is important to note because the ABC claims no denominational doctrinal ties. This is a falsehood.

For many years I accepted at face value what I was told. It is inherent in a spiritually abusive and coercive organization, like the ABC, to do what you are told or risk serious damage to your life. It is inherent also that you think your church has exclusive rights to the road to salvation and that to leave that road is certain spiritual and possibly physical death. It is, in fact, a spiritual power play contrived by men’s ego to keep hold on members and it is well disguised with false love.I was a rather immature youth of fourteen when the ABC, in its visible form anyhow, began. Prior to the forming of the ABC our family suffered through several major emotional traumas. The worst being when my mom and I were abandoned without a penny to our name by my father. We lived during these first months of abandonment in a basement broom closet in the Bellingham Hotel in Bellingham Washington. Thankfully we never actually spent a day on the street itself. More on that later. For many many years, decades actually, in an effort to maintain a tranquility, I did whatever I was told and would do whatever would not disturb the peace around me by "rocking the boat”. The easiest route to tranquility was to simply go along and not question. Just do whatever I was told, no matter how absurd it really was. This was a fruitless effort however since peace was never maintained in my family or life. I would find myself embroiled many times in major family turmoil. In these postings I draw on my own recollections of the decades I spent within the confines of the ABC. It is, of course, written from my perspective but I calculated I spent about one thousand hours over a several year period researching the web, books, court records and other sources before actually sitting down to write. It was this research that finally opened my eyes completely to a great many things about my father and the ABC. I finally discovered the truth I had blocked out for so many years. It was at times very painful to discover. My initial feelings are best summed up by the poem “It Hurts” by Jan Groenveld. Things that had been kept hidden from me, or that I simply chose not to acknowledge as fact for so many years, became so much more clear the more I dug into my research. The more the true roots became visible the more I began to grasp what was the true path and mission of the ABC. I had mixed emotions about many of my discoveries. It wasa mixture of peace at finally realizing or acknowledging the truth and tears for those I had once loved as "family" but would likely never see or speak with again. It was, in many ways, as if I had suddenly woken from a slumber and could see with a clear mind the ABC for what it really was, an abusive aberrant church and institution that had once fully capitalized my life. When I finally put all of the pieces together the reasons things happened the way they did over the years made so much more sense.
After my father's death in October 1985, at age sixty-two, four men took the reins of his church; Gilbert Larson (the Apostle), Andy Atwell (the Evangelist), Bruce Leonard (a “ruling” elder”), and David North (the Prophet). Prior to my father's death I, and my entire family, were expelled from my dad’s church and I had been completely disowned by him. After this disowning I remained forever disconnected from my father. That was his choice and not mine but it is for this reason I must rely on the report of others for details about this period of time.

The change in leadership when my father died reportedly occurred after a sustained power struggle between three of the leaders and my step-mother Yvonne. This struggle, lasting for an extended period of time from what I understand, was very heated and full of hostilities. Some of this I witnessed indirectly from letters sent to me by my stepmother Yvonne as she unsuccessfully attempted to take the reins of the church. Based on the churches current website Gilbert Larson may now be taking a lesser role in the church he led for quite a few years. It is assumed this is due to his health which has been failing for a number of years. Four men appear to now be the represented leaders; David North, Andy Atwell, Robin Hesley and AJ Weisenburger. I was once friends with the first three but do not know the fourth. It is important to point out there is a list of leaders on their site since the ABC stands by the false contention there are no leaders. They teach all are equal but, as can be clearly seen and evidenced by their own materials, they in fact do have designated leaders. Under these top men (women are not allowed a leadership role) are those considered to be ruling elders, then under them are elders, and scattered about the various groups are designated musicians. The title lines are not always finely drawn and, as a general rule, only the top men receive pay for their services. The rest are unpaid.The ABC, as I will show, grew straight out of the intertwined roots of the Pentecostal, Latter Rain and Branhamism denominational movements and has within it also a scattering of other influences. It is only the visible church stem we see today and that visible stem was a small gathering in Seattle at the Wilcrest Apartments. Over the years this stem has grown into an aberrant denomination which is actually just an offshoot from the intertwined Latter Rain movement and Assembly of God denomination. The ties to these influences are only visible if one digs a bit to reveal them. Once exposed they show what is the true origins of the doctrines espoused by the ABC. This new denomination, the ABC, continues to meet exclusively in homes across a wide swath of mostly western states although they now seem to claim groups across the U.S. and perhaps into Canada. It has never had more than a relatively few active members; a testament to the abusive nature of this aberrant church; and persons are brought in with false love then usually abandoned. Over the years there have been great numbers that have joined but most drifted away when the burdens placed became too heavy to bear. Some were dealt with quite unmercifully and were left crushed and very broken. A few suffered debilitating mental illness as a direct result of the harsh treatment meted out by the ABC. It is difficult to keep members when the worship of God is a hugely complex system of Greek word studies and hard line doctrine devoid of mercy and, dare I say, any substantial truth. The harsh manner of keeping things in line, and questions at bay, destroys any joy one has. This makes for a people who are very weakened and unable to defend themselves. Having lived in "Assembly of the Body of Christ" (ABC) from the beginningI know, and have witnessed personally, many things about the origins of its practices and current leadership. I knew all of the current leaders, save one, for quite a few decades. I try to believe that none of them, with the possible exception of one, start their day intending to do harm to others yet they do cause great harm. The ultra-fundamental, unbending and unmerciful nature of their doctrine leaves little room for anything but destruction of men’s souls on a large scale. When I view the ABC, in retrospect, it is clear persons are drawn in with the empty promise of love, and a larger knowledge of scripture, but many; and it could realistically be argued most; are eventually pushed out the back end disillusioned with the path their life has taken. Many have been crushed by the burdens too heavy to bear they lay on people. It pains me I was once part of this system of influences that caused so much pain to so many people.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. Matthew 23:4

Over the years I stood personally against many of the "disciplines" I saw meted out and defiant against the spiritual, physical and emotional abuses I saw inflicted on others but stayed silent. Even very young children were not spared these harsh disciplines. I was dealt some very harsh treatments both as a youth and as an adult. Why I did not speak out louder and sooner is a matter that bothers me greatly to this day. I witnessed some rather harsh judgments. It is one of the things that prompted me to write this website. I want to warn others away who may be thinking of becoming involved. I have come to the conclusion that when one lives, and spends many formative years in, a culture of false oneness,secrecy, silence and blind obedience, silence is the inevitable outcome. Silence is sometimes a way of keeping peace with your surroundings but it is not a true peace. It is perhaps a cowardly peace. Silence, in the ABC, is taught to be a “righteous” endeavor while speaking out against abuse is labeled as “rebellious” and “evil”. When I spoke out against abuses I saw inflicted on others, and when the “disciplines” given to me by a man named Bruce Leonard in Vancouver WA became quite sadistic; and even at one point life threatening, the leaders, under Bruce's tutelage and influence, sought to discredit me to essentially push me back into my cowardly silence. The worst charge they could find to level against me however was to accuse me of blasphemy. They were successful in silencing me for quite a few years but when I discovered they were hitting the airwaves once again I could not stay silent.After I did not agree to abide by their “discipline” I was ex-communicated. Those who chose to still communicate with me were told they must decide if they were “in the body” or “out of the body”. This is a scary scenario to an ABC member since one is taught that to achieve salvation you must be “in the body”. The “body” of course really meaning “the ABC” church but it is taught to be a spiritual place. All other places are considered to be “the wilderness” where one is subject to being disowned by God. I have been told the latest ploy to discredit me is to simply tell those who read these postings that my words are just lies and I made it all up. I can accept that one should not just accept my words at face value. Any person reading these words should seek out the proof independently. Ask questions. It is a noble endeavor to seek truth for oneself since allows one to look past the actually very obvious fallacies. It was believing only the “truth” I was told to believe that caused me many years of blindness to the abuses of the ABC. The truth of the origins of the ABC are found in many documents on the web relating to the Latter Rain, Pentecostal and other movements. I have placed only a very few of those documents on this site but there are many more on the web and in books for your own research. There are also public documents at the King County courthouse in Seattle WA which prove the abandonment of our family by my father Ramon A Haas; the founder of the ABC; in November of 1968 and his subsequent marriage ,very shortly thereafter, to his new wife Esther Yvonne Van de Kamp (McMurray) on July 7, 1969. This marriage followed Yvonne's mirror image divorce from her spouse, John Van de Kamp. Both divorces concluded before the exact same judge, both my dad and Yvonne were represented by the exact same attorney and the marriages were dissolved on the same exact date before the same judge. Too many similarities to chalk up to coincidence. This pair of divorces was followed immediately by a marriage union performed by a minister at a wedding chapel and witnessed by my grandparents. My grandmother confided in me years later that she witnessed the marriage under great duress and she had been forbidden to tell me about the marriage should I call. This marriage followed after years of an adulterous relationship between my dad and Yvonne.Since my father believed that to start a church one must be married he had done this with the explicit goal of ridding himself of the majority of his natural family. This allowed him the ability to start “The Group”; which later become known as the “Assembly of the Body of Christ” without need to explain why he had been expelled from the church in which he had once held a leadership role. It is interesting to note my dad’s divorce was granted by default since my mom did not appear in court. This, as I will recount in a later posting, is because at the time we, my mom and I, were living homeless in the basement of the Bellingham hotel in Bellingham Washington in a supply closet on rolling cots with absolutely no money and no way to get to Seattle for the hearing. I was not at their wedding and did not learn about it until much later, even though my fourteenth birthday was the day following the wedding. Once my dad abandoned us I did not hear from again until I ended up back in Seattle due to my mom's severe emotional decline brought on by the stress of the situation.The wedding was held in secret and for many decades thereafter was kept secret. In fact, at a meeting held in 1993 to discuss setting up a retirement pension for Yvonne, most in the room were still unaware she was not my natural mother. Some were insisting I pay to take care of her myself instead of the church tithe. When I balked, and announced she was not my mother, there was a shocked silence in the room and many puzzled faces. Gilbert Larson moved the topic quickly to another matter to avoid explanation.There are many documents and writings which prove the things I have written here but my goal with these postings is not to be a thorough examining of the many decades. That would require a book. These postings are simply to tell my story from my own perspective and quite abbreviated. I have no intent to throw a bunch of family mud so it is not intended to be a complete expose’. I have amassed a large volume of other documents substantiating these facts I have written and altogether have perhaps approximately one-thousand hours of research dedicated to these postings. I once had many more letters and documents produced by the ABC showing the many abuses over the years. I was at one time ordered by David North to burn them but did not. The box containing these documents mysteriously disappeared from my house one day however when a man named Robert asked if he could speak to his son in private in my garage after a meeting. I had taken him to that box in the garage once to show him some of the proofs I had of the abuses and so he knew precisely where it was stored. This man, Robert, had shown up at my front door a number of times when I was "out of fellowship", on orders from Yvonne, to give me a tongue lashing and to forbid me to speak to anyone associated with the ABC. This was not long after I was ex-communicated the first time in San Diego California and had moved to Port Orchard Washington. I have no doubt he took that box and destroyed the contents at the behest of the ABC leadership but of this I have only suspicions.There is much more to the story than has been written here but not all is worth the telling. Some of the story should not ever be told as the telling could bring more hurt to others who have already been hurt badly. I have included only the major highlights which shed light on the chain of events that caused this new denomination to be born and to expose it's roots. I feel I have mostly accomplished that goal without malice and with honesty. The proof is for the finding if you doubt my words and I urge you to discover the facts for yourself. As I state I write from my own perspective but the facts are still the facts and they are available to anyone with the inclination to seek them out as I did.In my research I discovered the ABC is only one of many similar aberrant churches that do great damage to people. Here is a good site that explains how aberrant churches work. I have no affiliation with this site; it is the work of others but has some good information. There are also other worthy books and resources listed in the sidebar of this site. NEXT POST

15 comments:

Anonymous
said...

Hi Scott. Not sure if you keep up with this blog anymore, but I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for validating my belief that my family was in a cult and thank you for giving me a place to finally tell my story.

Born in Klamath Falls, my family was a part of "the body" through many of the struggles you have written about. I assume they left the church shortly after you did, after having some sort of "blasphemy" dispute with Jan and Avi, the details of which I may never know. Although I was very young, I still find myself struggling with what I do remember...mostly our time in the Vancouver area. In that hell, I not only had to endure the pain of sexual molestation by someone outside of the church, I also endured emotional and physical abuse within the church. The most vivid recollection occurred when I was somewhere around four years old, I was stripped of my pants in front of a group of adults and beaten with a belt by my father. Having suffered the humiliation of being stripped of my clothes in front of adults, after being molested, left me completely shattered and unable to trust my parents with that terrible secret. Being so young, not understanding why these things were happening, or how to stop them, I would spend as much time as possible finding ways to physically hurt myself. Four years old and hurting myself…in very weird ways, which my family was never able to detect. In fact I have only ever told my husband, and not even all of the details to him. Since I did not trust my parents, the molestation continued until we moved away from that predator and to the Seattle area.

I find it very hard to forgive these people and the awful things they made people do to their spouses, children, family, and friends. To know that I endure molestation because these people made me not trust my parents…that rips me apart. To know that this group is still doing this…that infuriates me. To know that this group has made me doubt God...that is something I'm not sure I can ever forgive. To know that I was very hurtful towards my parents later in life, I think in a way to punish them…I know I will never forgive myself for.

So, here I am in my thirties, still dealing with these issues. At least now when I call it a cult and my father disagrees, I will know I am right. I've found enough evidence here and elsewhere on the internet to know that much. Oh, and I never knew those green "bible in a year" cards came from "the body"…I have one in my bible right now that my husband and I will enjoy burning tomorrow. I think it will feel oddly refreshing.

I understand why you wrote these histories. I wish we can talk one day. I have much to tell you, not in anger but truly to reconcile! I see from this letter you have changed. Owning some of what was done. Reading these accounts also makes me sad you where entangled as we all where only to do G-d will. When I came to the “Body” you and I where close at one time very close in San Diego. When in Grants Pass, I was treated as trash by the group Creg and Barb, Lowell and Cindy, and the gang. I have moved on and done well in my life, the LORD is much apart of me. And I only seek to reconcile. Yes we need to go to a brother and make amends yes we need to clear histories and take responsibility for what we have done to one another, even if its in the past. I want to help heal you, that is no joke. The lord has shown me your pain and I wish only warm air to clear your life and make you whole. I have forgiven the torture that people who spoke of love and said to my wife and I “trust the elders” then broke us as if glass. Those people in Grants Pass have found no repentance do to their hard hearts. I also wish you peace Scott, I really want to talk to you over the phone. I have some things to tell you. important things to tell you. Ray had men married off, girls in the body in quick marriages, as yours was and mine. Remember why we said Heather and my oldist daughter looked like sisters?

Ramon and Yvonne may have been loved by the deceived. I was offended at your characterization that Ramon was well intentioned. My brother and sister suffered at the hands of the "elders" with their special brand of justice. Every person involved in leadership were demonstrating sadistic tendencies. They freely took food stamps for tithe if that was all you had.

I was turned over to a reprobate mind when I refused to go back to my abusive husband. (I was beaten over and over and stayed after Yvonne convinced me that it was God's will to stay because he said he was sorry)Yvonne told me at that time that God told her I should move to San Diego. I had a good job and most importantly God had NOT told me I should pack up and move to San Diego. She told me I could be her maid, I told her that when God tells me to move, I will. Yvonne and Ray would come to my house and "find" things and explained they needed to "clean" my house. They left with such things as Hummels, Lladros, and other costly items that were "demon possessed". In retrospect I see that their actions were anti-scripture and they were thieves.

I am glad you finally recognized the fallacies but at some level you almost seem to defend their actions. You mentioned the excommunications frequently, so it seems you are writing from an injured view. No one will fault you with for that. People DO know you personally and perhaps that is what "Alex" is trying to express. It is difficult to forget the tormentors of your past as you seem to know very well.

Anonymous, I wrote this blog quite a few years ago and had to search my writings to find where I said my dad was “well intentioned”. I think you are referring to this statement: "I believe my dad meant well when he began the ABC, unfortunately he made the error of translating his family practices into the building of the denomination he started.” If he was "well intentioned” he was also oblivious to the burden he placed on people. Well intentioned does not imply the actions followed were right or in keeping with the intentions. One can start on a path with good intent yet veer from that path and find or cause ruin. I can see where my weak statement could be offensive to someone who took the full brunt of Yvonne and the ABC’s savageries. I too was subject to Yvonne’s sadism, having lived under the same roof with her for four years. She was cruel and abusive to many, especially children. There was a specific episode at Casa Grande in San Diego that bothers me I did not act. I dropped by one afternoon and Yvonne had a four year old girl tied and gagged on a concrete patio, in a pup tent, in eighty degree heat. The girl had been there in that tent all day without food and water. This was intended to “end her rebellion”. She had been left at Casa Grande by a new couple from Monterey that did not know of her ways. I should have untied that child, brought her in the house and made a huge scene. I didn’t make a scene about the sadistic punishments until she tied and gagged my own child, put a paper bag on her head and made her stand in a corner for hours. My child had gone there for just a few hours as a last resort when I was held late at work. There was no other sitter available. The scene I created that day caused me to be labeled as “rebellious”. Within a week I was disowned by my dad completely and thrown out of the ABC with a list of “charges” against me. I am aware of the trickery and thievery by my dad and Yvonne. I lost things to them also. One being an irreplaceable glass someone brought back to me from Germany from the Haasenbrau brewery with the Haas crest on it. Yvonne took it from my house when I was moving for “safekeeping” then when I tried to get it back she claimed I had “vowed” to give it to my dad. She used the “vowed” deception frequently. They showed up unexpectedly at my door from out of town once, took nearly all the fresh food from my refrigerator, saying it was for “the ministry”, then left town hours later leaving me with no way to replace it. I was living on part time minimum wage at the time. I observed the taking of food and food stamps from others. All of the things you say are perfectly true. If I had put up a blog recalling these things, without another person providing evidence, my words would simply not have been believed. The current “leaders” of the ABC would say I was an angry son making up stories about his dad to defame him. They already say I made up the stuff on my blog even though I provide ample proof and have additional evidence not listed. Before I ever put up this blog I sent a draft copy to Gilbert Larson. He could not, and did not, rebut anything because he knows it is true. I included more things in my draft that he knows are true. Things such as you have mentioned and Alex 999 implied at the end of his second comment. I did not put these on my blog because my intent was only to show the ABC is not a spiritually safe place to be and the premise that it all began at the Wilcrest Apartments by an act of God through my dad is myth. I put things on my blog I could prove and I only put up this blog when I learned the ABC was hitting the radio waves to drag large numbers of souls in to destroy them. I could not stay silent and see that happen. (continued)

If I have any injured view it is this. My dad caused great suffering to many people for many years and I was complicit by my silence. I had no real power in the ABC to stop the injustices and when I tried I was thrust aside. I mention ex-communication frequently because the ABC started with the abandonment of my mom and me literally to the streets and this abandonment doctrine my father exampled would become a major doctrine of the ABC. I watched scores of people condemned on trumped up charges then shunned or ex-communicated. I was silently complicit to my shame. It is this weapon of “in or out” that is primarily used to control people. When you pin your hope of salvation to a man’s doctrine it can be a scary thing to lose. The ABC is only one of many aberrant churches though following the exact same pattern of abuse. Reference the books listed on my site.

Hi,Just found this site today (4/22/14). 2 months ago I began to go to a Bible Study at a Community Center here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It seems very interesting and is very different from any of the ones I have attended before. The leaders of this group are Bruce Lenard, Gilbert Larson and their wives. I was told that they began in Seattle, Washington over twenty years ago. They had been taught by Ramon Hass. I began to have questions when they did a teaching on a man named Ivan Panin. It involved the book of Isaiah and how the Bible has 66 books and Isaiah has 66 chapters that match (I call it typology) It did not make sense to me and seemed to be lacking as this man died before the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered and several more books of the Bible have been discovered written in Hebrew. Also Panin had to rearrange over 51 of the books of the Bible to make it come out according to his "theory"---that is long winded I know. But it got me to thinking and I began to research on the internet. Was I shocked when I came upon your blog! Are these the same people your are talking about? Why have they gone underground and now working here in New Mexico? Should I be concerned? Should I tell others in this Bible study?

Yes...these are the exact same people. Ramon A Haas is my father. He started this group in Seattle at the Wilcrest Apartments in 1969. I have known Gilbert Larson since I was fourteen when his mom Agatha brought him to our apartment at the Wilcrest Apartments in Seattle. I first met Bruce Leonard at age seventeen when he joined "The Group" as it was known at the time. I have been present, mostly, through the progression of this group as it has morphed into various formats but always had at it's core adamant viewpoints "proven" by Ivan Panin and John Stegenga .

Why have they gone underground and now working here in New Mexico?

They are not underground, per se, just very secretive unless one is "inside".

Should I be concerned?

A strong yes. One should tread carefully and be very concerned about your future hope of peace. Groups like this entice with false love up front but leave a wake of broken individuals years down the road. Only if you do not question can you find a false peace. A few who have been crushed by their tactics have commented on this blog but there are countless others that have not.

Should I tell others in this Bible study? The ABC uses guilt and other tactics to maintain hold on people. To tell those who are part of the ABC will be fruitless until they have finally reached a breaking point or find themselves to be out of favor. To tell those thinking of joining...absolutely. Examine the fruits. There is no peace and safety there.

Since the comment box is very limited I have posted a much longer answer to two "anonymous" comments on these postings. It can be found at:

Scott, please see this forum link below... I grew up in a similar type of cultic atmosphere. Reading your posts and info gave me eery memories of my past. Thanks for this site, it is very imformative to the possible converts to the ABC. So is the site linked below, for the CFM.

I have a girlfriend I've known about 12 years. She is a sweet and tender hearted person that is always desired to know the truth that comes from the word of God. about a year ago she met a man who was 20 years her senior who was going to this church she started to tell me about some of the things he was saying how if you're not baptized you're going to hell eventually it came out that if you don't go to this church you're not apart of the remnant that goes to heaven. I started to have some red flags and I was concerned about her. Well today I went to her wedding to this man. He is a very kind and sincere man himself but I do not agree with this doctrine. I talked to the Minister but had a very difficult time just having a conversation with him because he kept trying to teach me the entire time. It seem like everybody was in their own world kind of reminded me of the town of Stepford. As soon as I got the name out of him of the exact organisation I looked it up and found this blog. Thank you so much for posting this it helped me to see some things are completely out of order. Another odd thing this couple had a book on his desk that said how to build a pup tent I thought it was kind of odd because they didn't look like the camping type. it makes me shudder to think what you said happened to those children. The older kids seemed very despondent and afraid. They were not social at all. He kept saying how they do everything by the Bible over and over and I kept thinking gosh why does he have to keep saying that.I don't think it would do any good to talk to her about it it would only make things worse. I have prayed that the Lord will just open her eyes as he sees fit. if anyone cares to comment on this blog to me please feel free to do so.

Hi Scott, I echo the thanks of others for creating this blog. My family was on the outskirts of the Body for years because my parents didn't want me subjected to physical abuse. Even still, I was standing in my house this morning marvelling at the damage Gilbert Larson inflicted not only on my family, yours, others, but also on his own. It's the kind of scar I'm not sure anyone can heal from, but this helps.

I commend you both for your courage as well as your willingness to subject yourself to the pain necessary to face the course corrections you have made in your relationship with God as well as your spiritual life.

I have a very dear friend who is heavily intoxicated by the lies and deceptions practiced by this cult. They currently attend ABC (or BOC as they prefer now) in the Vancouver - Battle Ground WA area.

Not only are they suffering grievous wounds spiritually, but they are likewise taking a substantial hit financially. I have tried repeatedly to demonstrate solely on the basis of Scripture the errancy in much of what they cling too. As yet the Spirit of the Living God has not been received such that the scales of deception drop from their eyes. I strongly admonish you to continue your good work and encourage on behalf of the Kingdom, to march forward, boldly declaring the truth. Well done good and faithful servant! God richly bless all that you set your hand too.

One of the last times I was in communication with anyone associated with the tape library I was told it had been destroyed by overuse during duplication. That was quite a few years ago. When making duplicates you reserve the master copy and use it just to make slave tapes which are run through the duplicator to make more copies until the slave tape burns out then a new slave copy is made, etc. The masters were used instead of slaves to make each run after I was disowned by my father and the library was put in other hands. The magnetic coating was burned off the masters in the high speed duplicator making them unusable. That is the long way of saying I have none of the tapes and they were never put up on the web since the masters were destroyed before the web had advanced to the point that mp3's could be uploaded. The only tapes out there are ones people previously bought. I personally did not keep any of the tapes for myself and my dad took the library back from me in San Diego when he sent the teenager to my door to collect anything that belonged to the group. It's a great idea though and if someone has tapes they are willing to convert I could certainly put on a few samples.

Sorry it took so long for a response. I haven't checked in here for a while.

I threw away all my tapes except some of the Mystery Babylon tapes that first opened my mind to the fact that MAYBE I needed to come away from practices that enslave and hold bondage. The seed was planted and when I finally had that "aha" moment I knew I was set free. However, Freedom comes at a high price....losing friends, family and everything you "thought" was truth. I'm thankful for my experience now. It has made me grow beyond measure but there are memories and wounds that go deep. Love and forgiveness are the only way to go about it....but this takes time too. I like to think about one of Christ's quotes....forgive them for they know not what they do. But, that doesn't mean you stick around and keep suffering from the abuse, rigidity and false love.

Anonymous...so true. It took me many years to wake up to the fact I had been led down the wrong road. The poem "It Hurts" By Jan Groenveld (link under Special Posts on this site) sums it all up very well mostly. Unfortunately the ABC is only one of many similar organizations that espouse the bondage of man so our experiences are not isolated. The initial shock of finding freedom can really hurt in the beginning and does leave scars. I once equated that feeling to being that of placing every friend you have on a 747 then losing them all in one moment in a terrible crash. Only later do you realize that a true friend would exhibit, love, peace, gentleness, goodness..., not hatred, torment and party arguments proofed through lies.

Gilbert Larson once remarked to me about a person who had left the ABC, and stated they had finally found peace and freedom, that this person only felt free because now they were free to live in the flesh and sin. Hmmm...on the surface that sounded reasonable at the time but only if you view a relationship with God as being only through the ABC. God is...he has no earthly franchise such as the ABC believes they are. One can have a relationship with God directly and without human intervention. Those who teach otherwise are not speaking truth. Secondly, only God knows those who are his and we are not to be judges of men's souls. I can make no claim of knowing those who belong to God and those who say they can plain and simply are not speaking truth.

Still to this day I feel a deep sadness for those still inside the walls of the ABC because the atmosphere is dark and so their vision is obscured. It is difficult to see all that is actually very wrong. Whenever light is cast on all that is wrong there are the few leaders who quickly cover over the exposed ugliness in order to keep the myth and organization alive. If people saw the ABC for what it truly is they would not remain.

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