Spanish Eibar/Ruby Pistols

Back at the beginning of the 20th century, Spain had a significant number of relatively small gunmaking shops throughout its northern Basque area. The area has been known for its metalworking resources and prowess for literally two thousand years, and it is little surprise that firearms manufacture would thrive there. In addition, a loophole in Spanish patent law gave these small shops an international advantage: a Spanish patent was only valid if the device in question was actually manufactured in Spain within three years of patent being granted. The major arms designers of the time had their factories in France, Germany, Great Britain, and elsewhere, but not in Spain. So new firearms developments were, practically speaking, not patented in Spain and could be copied there without legal penalty.

One of the more successful early automatic pistol designs of the turn of the century was John Browning’s Colt and FN 1903 (which were different guns, but used the same basic design). Spanish shops quickly began making their own copies of this very popular pistol, and one of them hit the proverbial jackpot. In 1914, the company of Gabilondo y Urresti (later to become known as Llama) built a better-than-average 1903 copy called the Ruby, chambered for .32ACP and with a 9-round magazine (larger than most of these types of pistols). Gabilondo sent a sample to France, whose government was in need of a huge number of pistols for the recently-begun First World War. The French found the pistol to be well-suited to their needs (cheap and effective), and proceeded to place a standing order in May 1915 for 10,000 of them per month.

One can only imagine the Gabilondo shop receiving news of this staggering order – because at that time they had less than 10 employees (between 5 and 8, depending on which source you read). There is no conceivable way they could have produced anywhere near this quantity of firearms, but now they had a contract for them. Talk about the right kind of problem to have! In order to meet the order, Gabilondo contracted with four other gunmakers in the city of Eibar: Armeria Elgobaressa y Cia, Echealasa y Vincinai y Cia, Hijos de Angel Echeverria y Cia, and Iraola Salaverria y Cia (the “y Cia” means “and Company”). Each of these subcontractors was to produce 5000 pistols per month for Gabilondo, who would control overall QC and deliver the guns to France.By this time (August 1915) the French contract had increased to 30,000 pistols per months, and would later jump again to 50,000 per month.

The contract terms specified that the subcontractors would be fined for any failure to meet the monthly quota, and any pistols over the required 5000 would be purchased by Gabilondo at the standard rate. The early shipments of guns from Gabilondo were satisfactory to the French Army, but not surprisingly the contract terms led to a degradation of quality as shops pushed quantity over quality to maximize their profit. Still, France continued to demand more and more pistols, and the situation grew out of Gabilondo’s control. Shops around Eibar in need of work saw the French as a golden opportunity, and jumped into the fray. Some worked with Gabilondo, while many others negotiated their own deals directly with French purchasing agents. The resulting pistols had the same general configuration – .32ACP, short barrels, 9-round magazines, shrouded hammers, and safeties mounted above the trigger. None of them shared interchangeable parts (or magazines), though, and each manufacturer used its own trademark name.

For the obsessive dedicated collector, these trade names make Eibar-type pistols a virtually bottomless well. At least 45 different small companies made these pistols, sometimes marked with a company name and sometimes with names like “Liberty”, “Destroyer”, “Venus”, “Modelo 1916”, “Trust”, and others. In addition to French sales, many were also sold to the Italian Army, as that country struggled to keep up with domestic production of military pistols. Some companies manufactured the guns from scratch, while others subcontractor some or even all of the component parts to other suppliers. Production of the guns continued into the 1920s, and all in all about a million guns of the Ruby/Eibar type were made in Spain. There are a few ways to determine if a particular one was made for French WWI contract (and thus likely saw military use).

Manufacturer’s code on an Eibar/Ruby pistol

Pistols made for the French Army typically had a one- or two-letter mark in an oval on the rear left of the frame. These letters identified the manufacturer, irrespective of trademark name (see below for a list of these markings). In addition, pistols were supposed to be marked with a star or pair of stars on the bottom of the frame alongside the magazine well when they were formally accepted for French service. Not all of them received this depending on how urgent the need for guns was when a shipment arrived, but it is a useful marking to look for.

Star markings on magazine well indicating French Army acceptance

The Eibar/Ruby pistols’ most distinctive identifying features are:

Shrouded hammer

Lumpy-looking safety lever above trigger

Longitudinal grooves around the muzzle for disassembly

Long 9-round magazine with heel release

Any two different makers’ version will vary in the details of other features, including slide length, slide serrations, lanyard loop, sights, magazine release, grip panels, and exact frame profile. Mechanically, they are all straight blowback and lack a last-round holdopen feature or grip safety.

One feature that can be tied to wartime service is the addition of a large rivet-looking knob on the left side of the slide. This was added to address the reported problem of tight French military holsters catching and disengaging the safety lever when the guns were drawn, and this was blamed for a number of accidental discharges. The added knob held the holster material up away from the side of the gun, and prevented it from catching on the safety. The knob was clearly added after manufacture, as it will typically cover part of the serial number or other markings on the slide.

Knob added after manufacture to prevent a tight holster from catching the safety lever.

Eibar Manufacturers and Codes

Please note: We are unable to verify much of this list, as we found it copied from a since-deleted web page and we have no source for the information. It does check out when compared to the handful of Eibar pistols in our reference collection, so we provide it here to be considered suggestive but not definitive.

I have a old Ruby 32 ACP with no magazine. I am not sure who made it. It is stamped Reliable on the side of the slide,it also has two symbols one looks like lion and the other is a crown on top of a shield and there is a J stamped between the lion and the crown/shield . If anyone can help determine who made this gun it would really help in finding a magazine for it.

Hi, I have come into ownership of a Destructor and have taken it to a gunsmith. It’s missing a lot of parts and pieces. Not sure if it will ever be functional. I’d like to send some pics if I can to you to help identify it better but are there any lists of parts that I can order from. He may not even touch it due to its age or parts accessibility.

I have a 1915 in nice shape, has the stars on the bottom of the grips as well as the EU with an oval on the back of the gun as well as the clip. Also have a very old box of billets too. Are these highly sot after by collectors? And is there anyway to get some history on the gun with the serial number? Who’s owned it etc?

They are not really sought by collectors; only the small group of folks interested in French military handguns. And unfortunately, there is no was to find any records of where any particular one may have been used.

The Ruby was either very good or very bad.Many are in drawers and “rat holes” in France “just in case”. There is a holster for the Ruby that looked like an ordinary rifle ammo pouch.It carried the pistol and two magazines. The lump on the Ruby slide to prevent accidental moving of the safety was done during the great rebuild of the 1920s & 30s. The Ruby saw long service for a supposedly poor quality weapon. There were Spanish revolvers copies of the Smith & Wesson in 8mm that were also widely used during WW1 and WW2. All in all it is said that nearly a million pistols and revolvers were made in Spain for the French Military. There are still Rubies rebuilt in the 30s in storage somewhere in France.

Hello. I do not have any grips, but I have a question. You’re the only other person I know of besides Ed Buffaloe that even mentions a Stosel. I am desperate to find out about the ejector for mine. Most Ruby-like pistols have a notch cut in the back end of the slide to accommodate the ejector. Mine does not have that notch. The ejector, which is broken on mine, appears to be some kind of mechanism that rotates up into position when the magazine is inserted. If you will send me an email, I’ll send you pictures of what I mean. If yours sounds like mine, I’d sincerely love to have a couple of pictures of your ejector so I can either find one or make two or three. I have an EDM cutter at my disposal and can probably have a handful made.

yes i finally found information on the gun that my stepdad had in pieces and its an original made for the french army cool!!!! does anybody know where to get a new barrel though when i put the gun together it looked like sombody had it buried possibly somebody found it buried in a trench

Most of the variations dis-assemble the same. With the slidelock/safety UP, pull the slide back to catch. Rotate barrel 180 degrees and remove. The slide should the move forward to the muzzle end and come off. SOMETIMES this will not work. IN THIS CASE after the barrel is removed push the slide forward til it stops and with a non-marring hammer or other suitable tool tap the back end of the slide SHARPELY. It should then come on off the receiver. The hammer has a cam on the top front which should allow its’ depression when pushing the slide forward BUT the alignment is incorrect causing the need of more force than usually necessary.

Hi, I appreciate your help with these guns. I have an old Echave y Arizmendi Bronco 1918 6.35 mm, and I can’t get the slid off for anything. I’ve tried your suggestion to strike it with a non-marring hammer to no avail. Any other suggestions? The gun functions otherwise and is a load of fun.
Thanks,
Cameron

Were you ever successful in removing the slide? I have a similar pistol in .25 cal. Like you I can lock the slide back, rotate the barrel and remove, but the slide will only move forward about 1/2 inch before striking something very metalic and very strong inside. I am afraid to bang on it for fear of actually breaking something which, of course, would make the pistol totally worthless. Any advice would be really appreciated.

Hello I have an Alkartasuna 32 I’ve just restored and had that initial problem removing the slide. This gun was the victim of dry firing and intermittently dropped the internal hammer upon function checking. I took the grips off and used a punch that would hold the internal hammer back far enough to allow the slide over the top of it. It came off as it should. I then re set the full cock notch to a sharper positive seat angle and it needed very little other fitting to be a safe trigger system. Hope this trick of trapping the internal hammer back a little further helps.

Great site you all have here! I am in need of a set of grip screws for an Astra Model 1924. So far Numrich etc etc etc etc, has nothing. Local smiths want $60 to look through their drawers to locate one screw. OR, $60 to re-tap present holes and grips to a current crew size. SO< I am appealing to you all for assistance in locating these screws. Thanks tremendously. I would like to keep it as it was manufactured really.

I have a “Ruby” or “spnish” style 32 acp that I cannot find ANY markings other than serial number on due to some one jewling the whole pistol. I am trying to determine exactly what it is so as to find a magazine for it. Is there any way of telling who made it other than by the letters that WERE on the left side of frame? The slide serrations are straight and as to taking sldie off, the barrel will come out but cannot get the slide off at all. I can e-mail pictures to anyone who might help me identify this little pistol. I appreciate ANY and ALL help/info.

Iam looking for any info on a pistol: Automatica Espanola-pats 62004 Y 67577 “bufalo” cal 6.35 made in Spain 15392. The clip holds 6 rounds and only has one screw on the wooken grip. Anything would be appreciated. Thanks.

I have a pistol that says automatica espanola-pats 62004 y 67577 bufalo cal 765 and I can’t find the proof marks on any website .. It’s a triad of a B with squiggly lines and p.v in the middle then what looks like a buffalo head with horns ( I’m not sure) it had a 4 digit seriel number.. Can anyone help me out.. It’s got browning pistol grips on it which I don’t know came with it.. Or what..

The P.V. indicates the Eibar proof house in Spain, and the “B” means it was proofed in 1928. The bulls head is hard to identify without seeing a photo, but my guess would be that it is actually a rampant lion, which is also indicative of manufacture in Eibar, which is where Bufalos were made. These three markings are often seen together on early Spanish automatic pistols.

I also have an I.G. “Destroyer” pistol, and have been trying to find a recoil spring.
Any chance you could send me dimensions of yours in inches? I need overall length, wire diameter, and most importantly, the number of coils. Inside diameter and outside diameter would be helpful as well.

I have one of these pistols with the VD two-letter mark in an oval on the rear left of the frame and two stars on the bottom of the frame alongside the magazine well. It does not have the safety lever above the safety though. It was found by a friend of mine in his backyard and it isn’t in very good condition. I am thinking about re-bluing it and making custom grips for it but I don’t want to mess up any historical value it might have. Can anyone tell me if it has historical value and shouldn’t be restored?

Do you still have your Ruby clone 32? If so would you be interested in selling it? I collect ruby clones and would love to have this one no matter the shape. Please email me at shortputter69@yahoo.com. Thanks

They can be worth up to $250 if they are in excellent condition. Does yours have the word Vencedor on the receiver? My father started collecting the Ruby Clones in the early 50s. This model is one of the most built of all the clones.

If you want to keep this gun a legally, you may want to contact the Police. Turn the gun in as found, and they will let you claim it in 90days. I did this with a Mod 6904 S.W. 9mms. I now legally own this gun. The best part was, in Anchorage there is no charge for this service. Think about the legal right to own a found gun.

Anyone know where I can get a slide for a 635 1911 Victoria ACP 25 ? The only pistol I found that is identical is in the Eiber Museum in Spain. My slide has the action bar retaining portion broken off, otherwise is is a great looking pistol with a great history I’m sure. Could the slide be repaired by a gunsmith?

I acquired my grandfathers Ruby. It is unlike the ones I’ve seen here in that it is marked with .25 cal on the slide and .32 cal on the bolt. It als has only one screw for the grips and the magazine holds 6(?)shells.

I am looking for a photo or diagram of the disconnector for my Izzara 6.65 (Ruby). I believe it is a bar that fits on top of the trigger transfer bar under the left grip panel. Without it, the pistol fires one shot, chambers a new round, but the hammer follows the slide forward. If I can not find a part, maybe I can make one…if I see what it looks like.

I would like to know the price for a Azauzay Arriaabalaga Elbar (Espanal) semiautomatic handgun with the #33918 on the gun. I have had the gun for 20+ years, it has not been fired for at least 19 years. I have a partial box of 32 ammo. also.

Not rare, but scarce.
Unfortunately, “scarce” here doesn’t translate to “valuable”.
In the USA, a pistol like that might bring $200-$250, depending on condition – if you find a buyer interested in buying it at all. The collector base for these guns is very small.

If you want to keep this gun a legally, you may want to contact the Police. Turn the gun in as found, and they will let you claim it in 90days. I did this with a Mod 6904 S.W. 9mms. I now legally own this gun. The best part was, in Anchorage there is no charge for this service. Think about the legal right to own a found gun.

Hello Mr. McCollum,
I to own one of the Ruby 7.65 pistols made by GABILONDOS marked GU inside of the oval. I wanted to share a couple of things I have noticed over the years of owning one of these in y opinion fine little weapons. I have seen a couple besides mine and one of them had the two stars beside the magazine well. Mine has also numbers stamped inside the Stars one is a 7 the other an 11, which has been hinted at by some of my collector friends as the acceptance date for the French of July 1911 I do not know this to be true but is logical. All parts in this weapon are marked with a 5 digit matching serial numbers with acceptance to the magazine which has no serial number just the oval with RH inside. I have found while disassembling this pistol ( can not see any reason for it) leave the safety in the3 safe position and pull on trigger while sliding receiver forward and it will just about fall apart. I took several tries when I first got it to get it apart to clean. hope this helps you did a great article and I thank you,

I have a arizmendi, zulaica y CIA marked cebra and overstamed with beistequi hermanos with the French military code stamp AZ serial#66240 everything matches it looks in good shape broke it down put it in the sonic wash and re-oiled it functions fine can you tell me anymore about this weapon why did they over stamp it? Also the left grip has the bottom right corner is cut out from a picture I seen the pistol had a Maynard hole and this pistol dont

Scott,
I can think of three possibilities for the overstamping on your pistol:
1) Beistequi Hermanos may have purchased slides from another manufacturer to fit to their frames, or
2) Someone else fit the frame from aonther pistol to your frame and restamped it.
3) Since there were so many names used by so many different companies, it is also possible that these two companies were, in fact, the same company.

When they were trying to produce as many pistols as possible for a war, mixed parts were going to be common – if they fit – which would be a small miracle given the overall lack of standards from one pistol to the next even within the same factory.

My father had a Star Model B in 9mm
Looked like a 1911, but had an external extractor, no grip safety and a right side dove-tailed disconnector
I understand Star made a Model A with a selector switch
Was good for a mag dump, but didn’t sell too well!

TomTB,
On the contrary, the Star model A was an excellent weapon, and it sold well in military and police circles.

However, your data is a bit incorrect…
The model B was a 9mm Parabellum (9X19) gun. Model A means it was a different caliber (9mm Largo – 9X23), although likely the same design (there were a few design changes over the years for these frame models).

Star did quite a number of these “select fire” (meaning able to be fired in full-auto or semi-auto mode) models, and equipped them with extra long magazines and removeable shoulder stocks. These additions allowed them to be relatively controllable in short bursts, or even for longer-range work in SA mode.
Naturally, few of these weapons made their way to “this side of the pond”, but I do have an original photo in my collection of a 1950’s era FBI, ATF or Customs agent holding a Star with an extended magazine and shoulder stock at what appears to be a seizure of some kind. The exact model and caliber of the Star remain unknown, as only the left side is shown.

Kudos on a spectacular site. I have a small but growing collection of early semi-auto pistols and this site has given me a wealth of information and inspiration! A friend recently gave me a Ruby 7.62 pistol without a magazine. It is one of the “maker unknown” clones but sadly when I took it down I discovered that the firing pin was shattered – probably a result of age and steel that was brittle from overhardening. Apparently this was a common problem with some of the clones made by Basque cottage industry fabricators subcontracted by Gabilondo in order to be able to meet the huge production numbers ordered by the French in WW!. From what I have read spare parts are a nightmare – especially for the no nmae clones, and I can’t find anyone who makes spares other than magazines. Anyone have any thoughts on a source or failing that, does anyone have any experience with having a new one fabricated.

Meanwhile I recently stumbled on several pages of a book posted on line which shows a number of machine pistols fitted with carbine detachable stocks that were used by the Guardia during the Spanish Civil War.
Interestingly, the Ruby was among those that were converted to full auto, although these did not have stocks.
An interesting concept; the author comments that they “must have been uncontrolable when in full auto mode”-
moreover, what would be the point? You only have 9 shots!

You mentoned in your post that you have found suppliers that make replacement magazines for the ruby clones. I have one such ruby and have tried to find the correct magazine. It is a Fabrica de Armas Vencedor, Durango. I have had the pistol checked out and it is ready to go if I can find the correct magazine. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Ken Reynolds

I have ruby pistols has shield with crown and eather dog or puppy and pv stamp also has circle with what looks like (A A) also automatic -1925 gun has no barrel or clip handles are wood or plastic with stars I want to restore but can’t find parts help

Hi,
Just received a Azanza y Arrizabalaga .32 pistol and the original GI bring back paperwork. It has the (now missing) rivet in the slide and the safety lever. Cannot seen to be able to disassemble the weapon as the slide only moves back about 1/2″….Any help?
Thanks!!

I have an excellent condition (90+%) Astra Model 1915 with ‘Hope’ stamped on the barrel. It is in .32 acp caliber but is missing the front sight. Is there anyone who might have one of these or know where an original one is available?

I bought a “looking Glass” it is very clean. it says on the side 6.35 ermua 1934 it has a lion and a shield with the maker mark PV. Every single piece of the pistol has a 3 digit number and the all match. the pistol will not fire when i put the take down pin in.when i look in there appears to have a small point like a sear on the top of the trigger that i think hit the take down pin. if I pull the take down pin out I can cock and fire the pistol over and over with out trouble. I am going insane trying to figure this out I am starting to think the trigger may be in upside down I just need some help please I build a lot of guns this is very basic and simple I just don’t know whats left.

I have a 7.65 1914 model automatic pistol, RETOLAZA”eibar. RH is stamped on the rear left side of the frame. On the mag well are the 2 stars indicating approved for the French military. The numbers on the barrel and slide are the same.
I would be interested in an original clip, the one that I have says UNION 7_65 on it and looks as though someone made it fit.
Thanks.

Ruby pistol magazines are famous for not fitting unless you find the exact same manufacturer. It is common to find them without a mag or with a mismatched mag that has been modified to fit. It is incredibly hard to find mags at all, much less correct ones.
If yours works, be thrilled, but keeping an eye out for the right one can’t hurt.
Don’t expect it soon, though!

I have a modrl 1916 and I think the cal is a 725. On the top left in the oval it is an EA marking, sn 4372, The starting name on the side of the slide reads HOHAVRYAR- – – – unknown. Can anyone help me id this pistol. It looks like the middle one in the picture above. Thanks

It seems that China had bought some Spanish Ruby pistols in the early 20th century. I found one with a “Astra” mark in Suzhou Police Museum. The gun uses 7.65 mm rounds. I recognized it because its grip/magazine is longer than common M1903s’ and it is not a Japanese Hamada pistol.

I have a ruby it came from my grandfather the gun is in great condition and it shoots great.It has MB in a oval on rear of gun and chrome clip it also has martian stamped on slide beside cal 765 and cal 32 it as has beistegui hermanos stamped over another name on the slide and it has no nob to protect the safety. The look like they are silver can anybody tell me anything about this gun?

“Pistols and Revolvers” by Hoggs & Weeks has a pretty good listing of the early-20th-century Spanish manufacturers in Eibar, with their various model names (there was one called the “Terrible”!) Ezell’s “Handguns of the World” pictures a 7.65 “Union” pistol from WWI French service with a 35-round horseshoe-shaped magazine that reached up and around to nearly touch the dust cover. Talk about “weight of fire!” No word about its reliability.

I own a very Old all original EIBAR Muff??? Or Percussion Pistol. no serial number. 36 is on various parts of gun. On top OF OCTAGON double barrel is ETCHED DOMINGO ALBERDI EIBAR. It has walnut carved grip with forged cast holders at bottom & FOLD AWAY Double Triggers. It is my belief to have been forged around 1850 and is 1 of 12 that were made BY a local family gun shop. I have NOT found another that resembles or even looks similar!!!

Appears to be the lone survivor….. Any interest or information. Willing to sell!!!!

My dad brought an early .38 APC Star. The slide spring assembly was lost in a break end when it was disassembled and discarded on site. Whereas I can offer serial numbers and identifying marks, it appears the frames of Ruby’s remain the same. If this is true, I very much would like to assemble this family heirloom. The spring assembly is just a hair longer than three inches. Anyone have one or a source?

Robert,
I think there is some confusion here – what you are describing does NOT sound like a RUBY type – they were never made in .380 ACP
Star did, however, make a lot of .380 pistols that could match up with your gun – look at the bottom of the grip frame for a few letters, possibly like CU, CO, S, SI, SS, D, or something like that. This would be the model, and is essential in figuring out which Star you’ve got. If it’s a really early Star, there might not be a model marking there, and I’d need pictures to figure out what you have.
Let me know.

I. believe I have an El Cid 1915 25acp. I say this because there is no maker or manufaturer on the slide.There is no caliber on slide.The mag holds 6. Also no serial # can be found anywhere. There is two digits repeated on several parts but you need a magnifying glass to see them. very strange is two long grooves on the top rear of the slide. about 2″ long function? The one piece firing pin is broken.I need a replacement or repair it has a carved out part that a screw moved as the slide was in action. I wonder if mine was a rush job?

I have come across an old Ruby, definitely a service pistol, and have come across a problem. Two, actually. The barrel is very heavily worn,leaving very little rifling left. The other is that it occasionally doesn’t chamber a round, and that’s a nuisance. Tough to get things running smoothly again. Any suggestions?

There’s going to be a significant problem getting a barrel from France or Spain: They consider those parts to be part of a firearm that requires special licenses to import or export. The only way they’ll do it without going through an established company is to drill holes in it or weld it shut.
Either way, it’s essentially useless. Might as well be on the Moon.

I have a Spanish 6.35 mm acp pistol, the slide seams loose,
To me, is this normal for this type of pistol,
I am not sure it is safe to fire, other than that
It works fine, or should I replace the slide with a,
Good used, will I his help the loose slide condition.
Thanks
Alalthekittyspal

I have a protector Automatic Pistol Cal 6.35mm, on the slide,
On the frame, bottom, where, the magazine, opening is, states, Spain other side serial number 37567.
Could someone please tell me the year of production production, the slide measures 4.375 to 4.390 inches.
Thanks
Alalthekittyspal@gmial

(REG:6.35mm “PROTECTOR” AUTOMATIC PISTOL
THIS IS A 1918 VP “PROTECTOR” AUTOMATIC PISTOL CAL.6.35mm
SERIAL NUMBER 37567,MADE BY SANTAGO SALABERRIN ELIBAR SPAIN,
COULD SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME,WHAT YEAR IT WAS MADE,
AND TOTAL PRODUCTION,RUN FOR THESE PISTOLS,AND THE LAST YEAR,
MADE.
THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP YOU COULD GIVE IN THIS MATTER
Alalthekittyspal

Alalthekitty,
Because of the nature of the production of these Ruby type pistols, few (if any) records were kept. Furthermore, your pistol wasn’t even made by one of the larger companies, and their number of employees was probably fewer than 20, possibly even less than 10. Added to that, during the Spanish Civil War most of these small weapons makers were permanently put out of business, many of them violently. Records were most likely all destroyed. This is a dead end, unfortunately.
As for finding parts, good luck. You’ll need a lot of luck to even find another of the same magazines, let alone another functioning slide. I have a Ruby type that is only missing the recoil spring, and finding just that part has proven impossible for the last few years.

Regarding the idea of safely using your gun if it has a loose slide, you’re likely to have big trouble. I’ve heard reports that these guns were so poorly made that WHEN THEY WERE NEW they had serious problems. This included accidentally firing off the entire magazine all at once. It was supposedly so common that many French soldiers thought the guns were designed to function this way. Don’t think this is a “cool” idea, as parts can start flying off the gun, especially into your face.

I would advise you to consider your Ruby as an artifact of WWI, and not a functioning weapon.

I have the broken firing pin for my 25 acp El Cid. Is there anyone out there who can fabricate a new one. I will pay stupid $. My great uncle brought several back from WW2 but only one 25 acp. It doesn’t seem hard with right tool using my broken one as template. nantucketkoch@gmail.com

Jimbo,
Any REAL gunsmith should be able to make this. It is quite simple for them, assuming they’re ACTUALLY a gunsmith, not a part-replacer like so many seem to be these days.
It’s simply a matter of getting the right diameter of hardened steel drill-rod and removing all of the material that doesn’t look like your old firing pin. The hard part is to properly temper the steel again afterward, not too soft, not too brittle. That’s what you’ll pay money for…I’ve had gunsmiths do this job for $25-$35. Is that “Stupid $”?

Vern W,
As far as “restoring” the weapon, I cannot stress enough the importance of the ORIGINAL finish. Just because it looks shiny and new doesn’t mean it is worth more, unless it is truly in original condition.

As for what you’ve got there, my best guess would be a “Manuel Escodin, Eibar – ‘Escodin'” pistol.
Not all Ruby pistols got the stars on the bottom of the grip frame. Many were produced before and after (mostly after) for civilian sale. Yours is very likely one of those since it has neither the stars nor the large rivet near the safety.

As for tracing the origins of this pistol, that is extremely unlikely. The Escodin “factory” didn’t survive the 1936-1939 Spanish Revolution (it was likely just a tiny shop with less than five workers), and neither did any records they might have had. Furthermore, if the pistol was imported here before 1968, it would not have been marked by an importer. Therefore, you will have nowhere to start your search for any record of transfers between FFL dealers, if any such exists. Unless there is some paperwork with your firearm, you’ve just got the history that the iron in your hands presents. Nothing illegal about it unless you’re unfortunate enough to live in one of the more communist areas of our beloved country.

I have one of these w/ a marking “the best automatique sprinter patent for…” I cant figure out the manufacturer of my pistol… I hope one of you guys know it… It doesn’t have a number and doesn’t have that thing to prevent the safety from being accidentaly moved… Made some research and found out that the manufacturer os a company called “garand”? Im not sure though…

I have an El Cid from 1915. It is 25 acp. It has NO markings whatsoever. It had grips with a crown like you see on old checkers.It has a firing pin with a notch on the fat piece that the hammer hits.The pin broke in two. i still have it.I have been told its very old, early ww1. I need a pin.

I need to replace my broken firing pin.My 25 acp looks identical to a WW 1 Ruby 32. My 25 has grips with a crown in a circle.It has no caliber or name.I do believe the firing broke do to dirt and debris build up in the housing area of the pin and spring.I found 75 years of plaque,dirt,powder etc that was never cleaned.On my gun it is an easy area to access for cleaning.Anyone else had a broken pin due to dirt packed housing?

I have a .32 Ruby which is stamped “ALZDAZBAL LETURIONDO Ca-EIBAR” on the slide. Both slide and frame are also stamped “AL”. The number “8635” is stamped on both frame and slide just above the trigger guard. It has the two stars stamped on the bottom of the frame at the sides of the magazine well. The slide has the “button” added to reduce the likelihood of movement of the safety when holstered. The magazine is stamped “9075” and “VB”. I have owned this pistol for about 30-35 years and have fired it once, shortly after I bought it. Since then it has lain cased in a drawer. Can anyone tell me anything about the provenance or value of this piece?

Does anyone know of a way to determine the year of manufacture or anything about the quality/reliability of this particular version. Was Aldazabal one of the early subcontractors who might have made a quality version or is it a later manufacture when quality control was perhaps not so good?

On my pistol where the oval is supposed to be there is a crown with a half oval with an x in the middle and p.v. And what looks like a lion standing on its back legs. On the other side there is a cursive sj what do the stamps mean?

Can you post a picture? That would go a LONG way to helping me identify the markings.

Those markings sound a lot like Proof Marks, which are stamped on firearms when they’ve been tested and found to be able to withstand proper pressures determined by specifications of the country involved.
Sometimes, countries will require imported firearms to be “proofed” again – Great Britain did this a lot. But these are NOT British proof marks. USA does not require proofing of any firearms.

Unfortunately, the description you’ve given doesn’t match exactly with anything in my book of standard proof marks from that era, or any other.”PV” could be Belgian, Hungarian, Austrian or French. The rampant Lion could be Spanish or Austrian.

I have recently acquired a silver “Looking Glass” Cal 6.35 and it has a mother of pearl handle with fancy etchings designs on the gun it has an x stamp along with the “lion” but it needs cleaning badly and the sliding chamber sticks. How do you take this thing apart to clean.

My son-in-law found one of these pistols while going through the estate of his Grandfather. It has the “Bonifacio Echeverria (ESPANA) EIBAR – “Izarra” CAL 7.65 markings on the slide along with the “I” stamp. It also has the Star markings on magazine well indicating French Army acceptance. The serial number, 923, is stamped on the slide, frame, barrel, and magazine. It appears to be in very good condition but I have not attemped to fire it yet.

I’d like to get it cleaned, I’m assuming ultrasonic cleaning will not cause any harm to it??

Rex,
It shouldn’t hurt it at all. I’m guessing either you’re taking it to a gunsmith for dis-assembly, or you are familiar enough with it to take it apart yourself?

Be aware that after it is cleaned and reassembled, please put no more than 3 rounds in the magazine for the first test!

These pistols were notorious for being accidentally full-auto. If it fires all 3 rounds at the first trigger pull, you know not to attempt further disasters.

I say “disasters” because the metal this pistol was made from is NOT of the finest quality, and it is NOT capable of safely being fired in full-auto (plus, failure to repair a gun that has accidentally gone full-auto can be a federal crime).

If it were for sale, I might be interested, since I collect Bonifacio Eceverria pistols.

I’ve “field stripped” it without any issues. I took the pistol to a gunsmith today and they wanted $65 to clean it so I passed. I’d rather keep that cash in my pocket. I’m pretty sure I could completely break it down if need be; some aerosol cleaner may be sufficient to remove any debris that may be present. With a cleaning and a little oil I’m hoping it will operate as designed.

Ha……that is good to know about the possibilty of full auto and using 3 rounds……..surprise!! I’ll do that first time I take it to the range.

I sent my son-in-law the link to this thread for his reading pleasure. I’m not sure if this pistol will gain any sentimental value to him after he’s looked at this thread; probably not since he gave me the pistol in the first place. If he wants it back he is welcome to it.

I’m not a collector by any means. If my son-in-law does not want it I’ll send you some pictures. If it can add some value to your collection I would not have any reservations selling it to you.

Rex,
Fantastic!
I hope it works well. My Email address is listed in a post above this one – I hesitate to write it again because I got a lot of people emailing me about unrelated things after that post.
You can send pictures there, and we can continue to discuss this.
Have a Merry Christmas!

have found a Errasti Automatic Pistol Cal 7.65 serial #10170 nickel plate with pearl handles with detailed etching these are the only markings on the gun? anyone know when this may have been made and where these where used?thanks

Hello – I have your sister gun, SN 10150 nickel plated with factory engraving but it is gold washed. MOP grips. In great shape. The only other marking on it is on the mag well that is stamped “SPAIN” so it was probably for export to the US?

I have a 38 Long pistol that my father gave me. It says it was made in Spain. On the right side of the logo in very small print says Eibar on one part and either S.A.D. or S.A.O. Trying to find the manufacturer and what year It has 31319 stamped on the bottom of the handle. I can send pictures

sent you a message last week about the Errasti 765 did you get?
thanks Scott

have found a Errasti Automatic Pistol Cal 7.65 serial #10170 nickel plate with pearl handles with detailed etching these are the only markings on the gun? anyone know when this may have been made and where these where used?thanks

There are only a few cases where a gun may be traced to its point of use. Usually this involves
weapons that have been specifically marked by the military or police units who used them. Other times it may involve a famous person and their specific weapon.

Without that type of original documentation either WITH the gun (in the form of a letter) or ON the gun (markings stamped into the metal) it is impossible to trace MOST weapons to who may have used them over a long period of time.

A serial number is not sufficient for your purposes. Serial numbers merely allow a manufacturer to track WHERE the gun was sold, and approximately WHEN. Beyond that, it becomes (at least in the USA) a matter of tracking for the individual gun store. After it leaves that store, it could potentially be sold to any number of lawful individuals without tracking. This is specifically intended to keep the US government from being able to seize weapons from lawful citizens.

In other countries, many weapons are registered to a single user. I wish you luck in delving into a foreign country’s records nearly a century old to find a single small handgun, especially when the records (the starting point) from the manufacturer are likely nonexistent. Most likely your request will be ignored. Even if you were to attempt to trace this weapon within the United States, you must know that again you’ll be unlikely to get access to the NICS background system.

What I can tell you about your pistol is this: It was likely NOT a wartime gun. They didn’t have time for fancy finishes or grips. Probably this is a post-WWI made gun by one of the tiny makers who continued after the war, but were destroyed during the Spanish Revolution of 1933-36, along with any records.
Because of the engraving, nickel and pearl, I can guess that this was sold to a more wealthy upper-middle class individual, likely as a pocket or purse gun. Beyond that, you’ll never know unless someone who had it in their family contacts you personally.

Dear sir.
FYI, do no use 38 cal +P ammo, these Revolves,
Will blow up !!!!, they will kill you!!!
Just use 38 spl. No more than 800 fps, and Lower fps, ammo and low pressure ammo, no more muzzle pressure 200 to 220
Ammo

I have the AK: Fabrica de Armas Alkartasuna, SA, Guernica – “Alkar”, “Kapitan” 32 acp. I have a broken main spring which shuts down the gun all together. I have tried to get it fixed and have the broken spring. Does anyone have any info on where to get parts or who can make this part. It has an S on the gun, slide and magazine. Any info would be appreciated.

My Father-in-law has a 1914 Model Automatic Pistol that is stamped “BEISTEGUI HERMANOS- EIBAR(SPANA) in decent shape, all parts there incl. magazine. There is also a stamp “BH” in a circle aft of the grip on the left side of the pistol. There is a stamp near the safety that looks like “BHE”. Are these collector’s items ? I haven’t fired it yet, but I think it’s all there. I cleaned it and it’s a very impressive design in it’s simplicity.

I have what I believe is a Eibar/Ruby pistol, however, I’m not able to find any information on this pistol. I’ve browsed through your website and have not been able to find any information. This is what I do know, on the left-hand side of the slide is this information; “Cal 7.65 Automatic Pistol” (and underneath that in quotes); “Looking-Glass”. On the rear of the frame are the initials (I believe) PV followed by what looks like a standing lion with wings. The magazine holds 9 bullets if this helps.

Hi ya’all, I have an old 1912 Vesta (Ruby type French Military) .32 Hijos de Angel Echeverria mfg, that I inherited when I was a kid. I shot it a couple times 30 years or so ago then think the firing pin broke. Also needs a new mag spring probably. Not really particularly interested in these and wanted to see if anyone could point me to any Ruby collectors that might would be interested in it? Thanks!
Jim

I have a “PISTOL AUTOMATIC CAL 765 FADE MODESTO SANTOS EIBAR ESPANA” SERIAL #9360. On the trigger there is a stamped number “85” on the rear beneath the slide there is a stamp “SPAIN.” There are no other stamps on the gun itself, nor any markings on the magazine. Up inside where the magazine goes there is a stamped “85” and a space then either an “O” or “0” … The grip has about a half inch wide band of flowers about an inch from the bottom on the same side the safety is on, and the same size wavey flowers about an inch from the top of the grip on the ejection side. It is in the same condition as when purchased back in 1974. It was last fired two weeks ago. I have been told it is about 100 years old and considered “rare” … anyone interested in adding it to their collection?

Terry, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Dunno if I am ready to sell the 32 caliber FADE MODESTO SANTOS EIBAR. It is a rare antique gun – I have been told. To answer your question … there is no visible hammer … Quite frankly, I know little about antique guns. Back in 1975 I bought an old friend’s tools and guns. This weapon was in the collection. All he recalled was He got it from someone that was in WWI. He claimed that he shot it a few times after he got it. But that he stored it. He told me it hadn’t been fired for years … that was back in the mid 70s … The weapon was tested and serviced by a gunsmith back then, and stored. The weapon was put into service recently when my new LCP misfired. It was put into service as a “back-up” weapon. Of course, you will recall the incident with the firing pin hitting the floor. Since then both the LCP was returned to Ruger and the 32 automatic again stored. Currently, my carry piece is a Bersa Firestorm (380) … with the knowledge that the 32 is a reliable “fall back” weapon, altho 100+ years old. I am open to suggestions.

Please forgive me,- but I posted all this on the wrong “page” …. I copied and pasted it here, as I think it belongs here… [additional information: Upon receipt of the refund check from Ruger, I purchased a second magazine for my Bersa Firestorm 380 … it was wrapped in a (seldom) used Bersa Thunder 380 … bottom line – bought two (slightly used – in excellent condition) – Bersa 380 weapons …. for just $50 more than the Ruger LCP. I would have preferred USA made weapons – but … well it just wasn’t meant to be.] When the Eiber 32 is ready, the gunsmith shall be asked what he knows, and why he identified the weapon as a “Park”, and report here. Thank you!

Harry

October 16, 2016 at 8:08 pm · Reply

I have asked before … i’ll ask again … after trading several old revolvers, in an effort to update to a smaller carry piece, I purchased a new Ruger LCP. Then, when experiencing a “misfire,” questioned both CCI Speer (manufacturer of ammo) and Ruger about the issue. Sent the weapon back to Ruger, upon Ruger’s request, for examination and testing. CCI Speer requested the ammo back for testing and QC evaluation. The ammo company said the Ruger fired “off center” and that caused the “misfire”. While each were doing their thing my old 32 Spanish Eiber was substituted, until the firing pin “fell out” while reloading and checking the breech.
The gunsmith called it a “Park 1903”. Any one know why he called it a “Park?” …. also was it made in 1903? … Would the date of manufacture have been stamped somewhere on the inside of the weapon?
Both have been substituted with a “Bersa Firestorm.” The 32 Eiber will be repaired in a few weeks. Any one know anything about these weapons? If so, your comments sincerely appreciated. Thank You.
.

Pdb
October 17, 2016 at 2:54 am · Reply

There’s a page on this site about Spanish pistols made in Eibar. Some based on the Browning 1903…

Can’t find a Park, Harrington & Richardson had a factory on Park Ave. Maybe they imported them, haven’t found out currently… Spanish pistols were made for the U.S market seemingly, but perhaps it was a French WW1 contract model imported from France as oppose Spain.

Park is spelt pretty similarly in Spanish and French, so it is probably an English term. Possibly a colloquial reference to a company, based on it’s headquarters.
.

Pdb
October 17, 2016 at 5:52 am · Reply

Same in Italian, parco. Parques de artilleria means artillery depot. So maybe it refers to an industrial park, for firearms in Eibar. As oppose a park, that you walk a dog in. Parker and hale? You’ll have to ask him why he called it a park and tell us.

Please forgive me,- but I posted on the wrong “page” …. I tried to copy and paste it here, as I think it belongs here… but that did not work … At 76 these contraptions tend to confuse … Am much better with a Bic and paper ….. [additional information: Upon receipt of the refund check from Ruger, I purchased a second magazine for my Bersa Firestorm 380 … it was wrapped in a (seldom) used Bersa Thunder 380 … bottom line – bought two (slightly used – in excellent condition) – Bersa 380 weapons …. for just $50 more than the Ruger LCP. I would have preferred USA made weapons – but … well it just wasn’t meant to be.] When the Eiber 32 is ready, the gunsmith shall be asked what he knows, and why he identified the weapon as a “Park”, and I shall report his response here. Thank you!

As a side note ref “LCP misfire,” an email and copies of info to and from Ruger and CCI Speer (ammo company) were sent to NRA publications chief editor, to determine if this situation might be something they might find interest in. An email was received back from the NRA Publications stating that the data will be a topic in their on material.
I have been shooting since 1952, and this was a first … [from what has been learned, could have been also – my last][a true “thank you Jesus,” moment for me] … I do not know if all Ruger LCPs fire slightly “off center” … But according to the ammo company, the ammo is designed to be hit in the center [hence “center fire”] for effective firing. This is something I just took for granted in a weapon … until now. Like said, a true “Thank you Jesus” moment.

The 32 automatic FADEMODESTOSANTOS EIBAR ESPANA … has been retrieved from the gunsmith. Recall, the firing pin hit the floor when checking the breech after removing the magazine, about a month ago. I said he referred to the weapon as a “Park” … I was WRONG … what he wrote was “Star 1903” on the stub … when asked why that designation on my stub he said that was his bookkeeping code. When I mentdioned this website and how my erroneous label caused commentary (ref Park … my bad – chalk it up to my old age – 76) they said perhaps they should have indicated “Ruby 1903” [The date is the apparent date of manufacture inside the weapon … he had it apart in less than ten seconds looked it over and put it back together … in even less time] (I am not about to try that … last time something was taken apart – it stayed that way. – A definite “No-No!”) … Double H Gunsmith knows his stuff and can make just about any part necessary. He made the firing pin and the weapon is as good as new, in my opinion.

Can this gunsmith make other parts? I. E. Safety? If so can I get contact information. I have a .32 Ruby destroyer that’s only missing the safety, I would like an original but if nothing else a new one.

That site is in French, perhaps …. was not able to find “translation” key … went there to see if another magazine was available for my weapon ….there is so much there … but not knowing the language is very difficult to navigate …. even with google translate … might be my lack of computer skill too …

I am looking for a magazine for a 7.65 Veritable Express pistol. I think it is a six round magazine. The pistol is 4.95 in. length and 3.44 in. high. I found several magazines at TripleK that range between 2.83 and 3.11 inches long. If someone has one of these pistols can you measure the magazine and post the dimensions?
Thanks

Kyle McLure … From my dealings with the gunsmith … he can make just about anything …. However he told me his work orders are keeping him too busy to “mess” with “on line” customers. He wants “face to face” customers. Suppose, he knows what he is doing. The last time there, a customer wanted some stainless pieces for his collectable 45 automatics. The gunsmith told him not a good idea as it would affect the value of the weapons. But, if the customer insisted, he could/would do it. The customer said the value was not the issue and said he did not like the black pieces and wanted them replaced with stainless. [At that point I figured the customer was “out of my class” – and left.] He is located near the VA/NC line in central NC. Dunno if that is a reasonable distance for you. Perhaps you might find someone via “google”.

Dave ridlen, Try this info … I copied and pasted prior messages … dunno if you can get anything there if you do not know French. There are parts available, but mostly in Europe. Anyway, here is that info …

colin-olivier

October 29, 2016 at 4:11 am · Reply

You can get parts for the Ruby 7,65 ( .32) on the Net ” Naturabuy – pièces détachées ruby neuf et occasion.”.
..

Harry
October 29, 2016 at 4:55 am · Reply

That site is in French, perhaps …. was not able to find “translation” key … went there to see if another magazine was available for my weapon ….there is so much there … but not knowing the language is very difficult to navigate …. even with google translate … might be my lack of computer skill too …

My uncle brought back a rubby Eibar from Korea. Not sure how he got it. He was at Heart Break Ridge in King Company 23rd Reg. There was a French Battilion there as well. Did the China use these weapons at any point??

“635 1914 MODEL AUTOMATIC PISTOL
REIMS PATENT”
on the left side of the slide. Has two magazines, leather holster with a magazine pocket on the outside. Grips are missing.
BH: Beistegui Hermanos, Eibar manufacture?
My girlfriend’s husband got it from his father who supposedly found it in a field near Portland, Oregon years and years ago.
I am hoping to have it thoroughly cleaned and lubricated, then I will make grips for it. My girlfriend has her CCP for Oregon and Washingtion and says this little pistol fits her hand perfectly.

I have a Vintage Pistol, It has Star Marking serial Number 9898, with F written on Safety Lock.
It is not used since 1964, was bought in 1940-1950 by my Grandfather.
The Gun shops are not able to identify it. Who can Help.

Thank you Ian for this information. I’ve been able to figure out at least half of the markings on this “mystery” pistol that my parents bought 30 years ago. I was able to find out what the HOPE stamp stands for elsewhere. Now I just have to figure out what the SP with SPAIN branded over it (not above it, burned in over it) is from. I think it might be an import mark from an auction house, but I’ve never seen it done like this.