Chapter House got sued because they created miniatures and named them like games Workshop did when they should've named them with synonyms to be fine...

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Chapter House got sued because they created miniatures and named them like games Workshop did when they should've named them with synonyms to be fine...

And GW lost many of the claims they made for such things as they were trying to claim copyright that they didn't own and in many cases couldn't own.

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CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Fri Jan 01 2016, 22:25

But they won against chapter House studios

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And GW lost many of the claims they made for such things as they were trying to claim copyright that they didn't own and in many cases couldn't own.

Like space marine. They CAN'T own that term, as it was in pop culture use since like the 60's-70's, far before GW was even around. They do this with all sorts of things that they didn't originally come up with. And they send out cease and desist letters that work for them 90% of the time. The other 10%, they lose in court.

They won some of the claims they made against Chapter House. Chapter House won far more of them.

Quote :

The jury deliberated for more than two days and found that Chapterhouse could continue to make and sell over a hundred products without fear of copyright infringement. The jury also confirmed that Chapterhouse could continue to use most of Games Workshop’s asserted trademarks when selling compatible parts, including all nine of Games Workshop’s registered trademarks. Together with the summary judgment wins, the jury’s verdict confirmed Chapterhouse can continue to make and sell 111 products that Games Workshop hoped to block using copyright laws, and can continue to use 104 words and phrases that Games Workshop said were trademarked.

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The case against them comprised about a hundred different claims, of which CHS won more than they lost. IIRC this included the use of the tyranid drop pod.

If you're interested, this is a more detailed summary of the lawsuit from the BoLS forum:

Spoiler:

Some initial notes:This is a Jury Verdict, and has not yet become a Final Judgement

Breaking down the counts along the different categories we have:

Copyright Claims160 claims alleged against CHS-GW won on 1/3 of the claims, including items such as CHS' Powerfists-CHS won on 2/3 of the claims, including the use of the underlying shape and size of GW Shoulderpads.

General Trademark Claims9 claims alleged against CHS-CHS won all 9 claims, including either no infringement, or fair use of the GW trademarks on CHS' website.

Notable Trends and Individual Products Under DisputeCHS lost on some individual products including:-Doomseer-Dark Elf Arch Tortress

CHS won on some individual products including:-Jetbike-Super-heavy walker model-Lizard Ogre

Damages Awarded:CHS ordered to pay GW damages of $25,000 USD

Both sides may appeal the ruling.

Thoughts and Implications:It's looking like however CHS as an entity comes out of this ruling, the implications for the 3rd party industry are profound.

-The ruling of no infringement for the use of the underlying shape and size of GW shoulderpads is now on the legal record.-Possibly more important is not guilty verdicts on the use of GW trademarks and terms on the CHS website. -While certain CHS products themselves may disappear from the Earth in the aftermath of this case, it looks like the verdict may have provided a clear blueprint for the 3rd party accessory bits market. One that allows legal use of certain GW trademarks and terms in a way that goes way beyond what Nottingham themselves ever wished to allow.

stilgar27Sybarite

Posts : 468Join date : 2012-12-04

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Fri Jan 01 2016, 23:57

The space marine thing was literally insane. The "space marine" concept is probably a few minutes younger than the idea of sending ships into space, and the term was already in use in science fiction in the 1930s (Captain Brink of the Space Marines - Published 1932).

Not that the people at geedubs know this of course, they most likely lifted the name, along with a serious chunk of "their" intellectual property from the alien franchise in the 1980s. 30 years later they sue other people out of existence for trying to "steal" what they've clearly already stolen.

Seriously GW, Sometimes I wish you had a face, so I could smack it.

Count AdhemarDark Lord of Granbretan

Posts : 6940Join date : 2012-04-26Location : London

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Fri Jan 01 2016, 23:59

GW parted company with the head of their legal dept shortly after this verdict.

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GW parted company with the head of their legal dept shortly after this verdict.

Probably because he cost them millions in legal fees and attourney costs while ultimately losing their trademark fight on 2/3's of the issues, and only recouping $25,000.

-2,000,000 +25,000= -1,975,000

If there's one thing GW is good at, it's looking at the bottom line.

_________________

megatrons2ndHellion

Posts : 98Join date : 2014-02-03Location : indiana

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sat Jan 02 2016, 02:34

That's the problem with trying to claim things that aren't yours to begin with, and picking a fight that is unwinnable. I don't think it would have mattered who it was in charge, there was no victory in most of the stuff in their lawsuit.

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BetrayTheWorldTrueborn

Posts : 2665Join date : 2013-04-04

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sat Jan 02 2016, 02:54

But it doesn't keep GW from doing it. They still use C&D letters to scare small businesses into complying with their wishes, even when those wishes have been shown in court to be unenforceable.

GW parted company with the head of their legal dept shortly after this verdict.

Probably because he cost them millions in legal fees and attourney costs while ultimately losing their trademark fight on 2/3's of the issues, and only recouping $25,000.

-2,000,000 +25,000= -1,975,000

If there's one thing GW is good at, it's looking at the bottom line.

It's even worse than that though - because their lawsuit also established several legal precedents against themselves.

CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sat Jan 02 2016, 10:51

Against themselves? What do you mean?

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I mean the stuff like the no-infringement ruling on size and shape of SM shoulder pads (and whatever else was in the 2/3 of similar claims that CHS won).

Before, if a company - especially a smaller one - was making shoulder pads or such, GW could threaten legal action and the threat alone would probably be enough. However, because they went through with this lawsuit and lost, there's now a legal precedent against GW.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but before there was a lot more legal grey area, which GW could exploit to effectively bully small companies. Since GW are one of the largest miniature companies, most small ones wouldn't want to risk going against them in court. However, this case basically removed all that grey area by establishing very clear ideas of what GW can and can't claim copyright/patent on. Moreover, it turns out that they can't copyright/trademark nearly a much as they thought they could.

Basically, it's given other companies a much better idea of what they can get away with in terms of making GW parts and such.

CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sat Jan 02 2016, 12:39

Ah okay. I wasn't sure if you were referring to some obscure layman court decision of the United states.

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Ah okay. I wasn't sure if you were referring to some obscure layman court decision of the United states.

What exactly is an "obscure layman court decision" of the united states?

You DO realise that since the US represents 33%-50% of GW's sales worldwide, any court decision here regarding copyright/trademark policy would be far from obscure, and more likely a landmark decision, almost certainly directing future GW global policy, right?

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CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sat Jan 02 2016, 20:53

Well, I was just referring to the fact that the courts of the United States work with laymen what can lead to "interesting" compensations being demanded. But that's another story.

Of course the decision of the court is important but it's just binding for the United states. The rest of the world isn't bound to united States court decisions. But most definitely it will influence future games workshop policies, I never doubted that part.

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CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sun Jan 03 2016, 08:23

The external revenue of games workshop is smaller then continental Europe's by the way and only a tad bigger than the United Kingdom. So it's more in the 20-30% area

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Klaivex CharondyrWych

Posts : 918Join date : 2014-09-08

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sun Jan 03 2016, 14:09

I really don't see the value in discussing with CptMetal. The guy read a DE book and probably saw "Law&Order" once, so he is an expert in everything.

CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sun Jan 03 2016, 14:21

I said nothing wrong. United States courts use laymen. I said nothing about it being bad. In fact, regarding decisions against big companies, this system is better then our German one.

Sorry if I somehow offended you, maybe I found the wrong numbers please get the right ones.

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BetrayTheWorldTrueborn

Posts : 2665Join date : 2013-04-04

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sun Jan 03 2016, 16:49

US courts don't use laymen. Judges are elected officials who almost universally are licensed attourneys at law who spent 8 years in specialised schooling and 10+ years practicing law. Attourneys require 8+ years of special schooling(for which you must first qualify) and must pass a bar exam before they're permitted to practice.

As for US percentage of GW revenue, for 2014 and 2015, it made up ~23% of their own retail sales, and ~40% of their trade store sales. These numbers aren't counting online orders shipped to the US, since GW doesn't publish those numbers. But the exact numbers aren't really relevent, since it's clear that GW wouldn't abandon their US operations due to US court decisions that weren't favorable. It wouldn't be profitable. So they'd have to follow the US court decisions.

And you say US court decisions aren't applicable worldwide, and that is technically true, while a bit short-sighted. Sure, your country need not follow our trademark and copyright laws, but we're a pretty serious player in the global marketplace. No other country has to follow the UK's copyright/trademark law either, so technically if it were legal in the US, someone here could make a copycat of GW's entire company and start competing with them globally(other than UK) at half the prices GW charges. It's NOT legal, but could and absolutely WOULD happen if it were, so legal decisions here are far-reaching worldwide.

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CptMetalTrueborn

Posts : 2756Join date : 2015-03-03Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

Subject: Re: Idea Fixing Wyches Sun Jan 03 2016, 18:54

I was referring to the judges (jury?) that are elected citizens as far as I know. Isn't that used anymore? I'm sorry if I got that wrong.

And don't get me wrong, I'm glad that games workshop didn't win against chapter House, even if it lead to the death of many Charakters in the dark Eldar codex.

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I was referring to the judges (jury?) that are elected citizens as far as I know. Isn't that used anymore? I'm sorry if I got that wrong.

The jury trial is only used in specific types of cases, and when it's used, all the jury decides is who is right, the plaintiff or the defendant.

The judge determines the actual ruling of the case based on who the jury decides is correct. So any "interesting" compensations or w/e that occur are typically the decision of a professional legal person as opposed to a layman.