RoyalDude wrote:When was the last time Bieksa fought or stuck up for a teammate. You highly overrate him in this category, paddy. The guy is getting old but you still might be able to get something for him. It's time for this team to start getting younger.

Didn't he go after Smid for taking a run at Kesler in that year-ending shitshow in Edmonton? So that's what, like 4 games ago? More Bieksa, not less.

With Corrado and Tanev, this team has a good balance of youth and experience on the back end.

Well I dunno...maybe you're right... I just hate everybody more than I usually do with this team right now. and how is that possible?

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

Bieksa stays simply because we need the right handed shot. We've seen the cluster fuck with all the lefties. Next season we have Bieksa, Tanev and maybe Corrado all on the right side. Two of them on good contracts. On the left we have Hamhuis, Edler, Garrison, Ballard. Two of those need to go. IMO Ballard and Edler. Ballard may get us a low draft pick from a team like Edmonton or the Islanders that need D'men and he still has a decent contract for a team where he will get top 4 minutes. But other wise you buy him out. Edler, as others have said, should get us a decent return.

Up front you keep the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Kassian, maybe Weise. Everyone else should be gone. Booth I am on the fence on. I like what he brings and I like how he takes the puck hard to the net. With his injuries we haven't really been able to see what he can bring on a consistent basis. If we jettison the rest of the guys and bring in some young guys the cap should work. Like RD I advocate for JS, Gaunce and Jensen to get a fair shot at being regulars. We need to finds out what they've got and we need to find out in the next couple of years. That means we still need a centre. Maybe that tall dude we singed from College will be ready for 3rd or 4th line duty?

In net, well thats a no brainer, you trade Luongo, hey the Islanders might be looking and they have a contract dispute with whats his name.

Hockey Widow wrote:If we jettison the rest of the guys and bring in some young guys the cap should work. Like RD I advocate for JS, Gaunce and Jensen to get a fair shot at being regulars. We need to finds out what they've got and we need to find out in the next couple of years. That means we still need a centre. Maybe that tall dude we singed from College will be ready for 3rd or 4th line duty?

I think we just have to stop wrapping ourselves around the axle of this thing called 'a window'. For certain players, yeah, they have a window but a team only has a window if it acts like it does and configures its roster accordingly.

If the Canucks lose out in this round, I think everybody has to take a deep breath and realize that if there's a window to the Sedin era, it's pretty much closed and they've gone as far as they will take this team as the top dogs. It's time to start planning for the post-Sedin era now because it's not like Gillis offensive wunderkinds waiting in the wings as Nonis did when the WCE era closed. Maybe it's time Gillis got that stud winger who can mesh with Kesler and give them the prime minutes. No doubt that was the idea with Booth, but it just never worked out.

Get Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Schroeder into the line-up and see how they do. Let them make some mistakes, take some chances and learn while sharing the same bench as the leaders they will one day replace. That, however, takes patience and a willingness to sacrifice points and standings - something Vigneault would never do. He has to go.

I wish Hodgson's dad hadn't been such a pill. Unless, of course, we actually get a coach in here who can guide Kassian to his potential.

It's depressing thinking about a re-build, even if it is only a partial one. I guess it's been a while since I've considered this team to be on real downward slide or mired in serious difficulty. After all those painful years it was such a high to be a fan of one of the dominant teams.

I never believed the Sedins had hit a wall. I just thought they had problems elevating their play in the playoffs but now, damn, is it over?

cjc wrote:I never believed the Sedins had hit a wall. I just thought they had problems elevating their play in the playoffs but now, damn, is it over?

I don't know if they've hit a wall, but I wager their best years may now be behind them. That said, maybe they need a wake-up call/kick in the ass from a new voice in the room to make them realize the way they're playing and the tactics they've been using are not going to hack it anymore. I think if a new coach were to come in, shake them out of their complacency and give them a reason to believe in themselves again, it may prolong their productivity another couple years.

The poor drafting over the last while has fucked this team over. We need some good young players who can push the lazy vets with the fat cheques into playing their best. Right now we don't have that push from within that make players work for their ice time. I can't say it enough, this team is as stale as day old donuts at Tim Hortons.

We need to bring in some good young players through trades to inject some life into this group. Fuck the middle aged vets that Gillis is fixated on, that is so Darryl Sutter era Calgary Flames. It will just lead us to eventual mediocrity. Toss a stick of dynamite into that dressing room, blow it to smithereens. It ain't fucking working. Tweaks here in there will further put more empty seats in Rogers Arena. This all falls on Gillis, the player agent slash player over-evaluator. Damn I'm jealous that the Stars are getting Jim Nill. Get Bonner out of the Giants, Gillis is too much in love with his players and is as blind as they come to realizing when a team needs proper changes.

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

RoyalDude wrote:The poor drafting over the last while has fucked this team over. We need some good young players who can push the lazy vets with the fat cheques into playing their best. Right now we don't have that push from within that make players work for their ice time. I can't say it enough, this team is as stale as day old donuts at Tim Hortons.

Oh give it a rest with the drafting already.

There are only a few names that could have been picked by us that would have made a difference. Fact is, those names were passed over by 28 other teams too.

It wouldn't matter if there was youth in the AHL or on the 23 man roster. Vigneault doesn't develop young players. He's not that kind of coach. We've had plenty of young players come through here who haven't been give a chance. They get thrown to the lions and are expected to figure it out on their own and with the help of the team. This team is comfortable and complacent. It's a fucking country club where new members are only accepted when they are forced down the throat of the existing team by management. Look at how other coaches approach their young players. Either the head coach or an assistant are talking one-on-one to the young guys during the game, giving them an objective before every shift, constant feedback. AV just stands behind the bench stoically, Bowness snaps and looks grumpy, the other assistants talk to the vets. That's it. Watch it happen.

Drafting is NOT this team's biggest problem. Coaching and apathetic players with no killer instinct are the problem.

RoyalDude wrote:The poor drafting over the last while has fucked this team over. We need some good young players who can push the lazy vets with the fat cheques into playing their best. Right now we don't have that push from within that make players work for their ice time. I can't say it enough, this team is as stale as day old donuts at Tim Hortons.

Oh give it a rest with the drafting already.

There are only a few names that could have been picked by us that would have made a difference. Fact is, those names were passed over by 28 other teams too.

It wouldn't matter if there was youth in the AHL or on the 23 man roster. Vigneault doesn't develop young players. He's not that kind of coach. We've had plenty of young players come through here who haven't been give a chance. They get thrown to the lions and are expected to figure it out on their own and with the help of the team. This team is comfortable and complacent. It's a fucking country club where new members are only accepted when they are forced down the throat of the existing team by management. Look at how other coaches approach their young players. Either the head coach or an assistant are talking one-on-one to the young guys during the game, giving them an objective before every shift, constant feedback. AV just stands behind the bench stoically, Bowness snaps and looks grumpy, the other assistants talk to the vets. That's it. Watch it happen.

Drafting is NOT this team's biggest problem. Coaching and apathetic players with no killer instinct are the problem.

Kind of seems that way I admit, but rookies and new players make mistakes and mistakes cost you points and lost points makes you miss the playoffs. The owner has gone on record as saying missing playoffs is unacceptable, so if you were AV , you probably would go with your vets as much as possible too.

Perhaps if Gillis were to guarantee AV that he has a little leeway in wins and losses... However if the team went on a ten game skid at any point over the last three seasons, the mongoloids would have been jumping off the Georgia street viaduct

The excuse this year to not let he younger players develop and have a roster spot was that it was a shortened season, no room for error. Last year it was we were fighting for the PT. The year before it was because we were fighting for the PT and wanted to go deep. Fine I get all that. But look at teams that were forced to use their younger players, like Ottawa,and look where they are. Hell even look at Toronto.

My point is that at some point you have to let the younger players play and you have to put them in situations to succeed.

Most of us, some much more vocal, have been saying since the Boston series that we were looking stale, tired, unmotivated. The year we went to the finals we had a swagger and it was infectious. We all believed. But the loss to Boston took something out of the team that they have not recovered. Time for a change.

If we don't deal with this in the next two seasons we will find out that there was indeed an expiry date on the twins. I don't advocate trying to move them, I still think they are point a game type players and very valuable to this team. But we have never been able to build around them and when the playoffs come we get disappointed because they haven't shown that they can carry the team in a playoff grind.

We have to build around them now and adding 3rd and 4th line players in a revolving door mentality won't cut it. MG tried in getting Booth. I was happy with that pick up. It hasn't produced the results we wanted. He tried to strengthen the back end and I was happy what the Ballard pick up. It hasn't worked out.

Now I say its time to see what the kids can bring. We know what Tanev brings, I think Corrado is a keeper. But what about up front. Fuck the only kid we have playing regularly is Kassian and he gets shifted around more than I care to count. We have to start to develop our twin replacements.

I'm tired of MG saying that he doesn't understand all the fuss, the team is competitive every year blah. blah, blah. Don't get me wrong, I like being on the upside but we are no longer a contender. I'm not prepared to be content with just being in the race,mid pack, every year. I don't advocate a blow up either. Clean out the dead weight, the excess cap and let the younger guys play. Find a coach who can intricate them into the line up and help develop them.

I've spoken to a few people today all of whom have season's tickets. Every one of them said they want this over in four because they don't want to have to pay for game 5 tickets.

But the bright side, if we get swept we get a better draft position. Right after Columbus I think.

It's kind of amusing to see how radically the tone shifts with 3 straight losses... understandably ofcourse. I think the points that people have made on here about having young talent developing in the roster alongside the presence of seasoned vets/leaders, is a good one. In my eyes, the oilers represent another extreme - lots of young talent, but not enough seasoned talent and toughness where ya need it, especially on the back-end. Ottawa has done well in rebuilding - good drafting in conjunction with good trades and rookie development.

Anyways, the 3, possibly 4 straight losses, may well be blessing, and a great opportunity. So more than ever we are going to see if if Gillis really has the sense to make it happen!? As others have pointed out, AV's time is done, but I'm not sure who MG brings in to replace him? Should be interesting. I wish our cupboards weren't so bare! Not sure the next coach is going to have a lot to work with? Gaunce is promising, but still very young, and Jensen is just a year older if I'm not mistaken. It's my opinion that no-one on our roster should be untouchable (yes I know about NTClauses...still). I would really like to see the Sedin's traded for a decent forward with some braun that's younger than 30... but that's just me.

So we had our run/window for a few years... it was fun while it lasted. There's little doubt that one way or another most all who frequent here will remain die hards even if we pretend that we don't care anymore... right Donnie? If nothing else it will be entertaining for many of us to see how things unfold.

I'd be willing to bet that if you went into any one of the other 7 locker rooms in the playoffs this year in the West and asked which team they would have felt most comfortable matching up against in the first round, they all would have said Vancouver.

I think we have too much talent on the core and enough heart guys to not see us go down the long slide. BUT MG has to make changes now while we are at this plateau. To sit by and maintain the status quo just makes us a year older and none the wiser. Again, I don't want to see major blow up but enough of a change to shake up the line up and infuse young blood. It may not get any easier than it is today to sell to the fan base that changes need to be done. Waiting too long takes us dangerously close to Calgary territory or heaven forbid the Avs who just disintegrated as their stars aged out.

We have a great young goaltender whose promise and upside is as good as Luongo in his day if not better. We have a core on the back end who are decent but we need a change there, a big one.

Up front we have a decent core but the time has come to prepare for the day the twins retire or sign elsewhere.

We all want to win, we all want to be in a position to win in any given year. But this groups as is, is done. Listen up Mike, it really won't get any easier than it is today to sell change.

Hockey Widow wrote:My point is that at some point you have to let the younger players play and you have to put them in situations to succeed.

This is my major beef with AV. He never seems to put young players in a position where they are more likely than not of succeeding. Look at Kassian; he looks great early on with the twins, then struggles for a few games and is demoted to the 4th line. He's then bounced all over the place, playing with different linemates night after night. Schroeder is another example. He was the only guy driving the bus on the second powerplay unit, but Ebbett was preferred because of his 'versatility'.

Hockey Widow wrote:My point is that at some point you have to let the younger players play and you have to put them in situations to succeed.

This is my major beef with AV. He never seems to put young players in a position where they are more likely than not of succeeding. Look at Kassian; he looks great early on with the twins, then struggles for a few games and is demoted to the 4th line. He's then bounced all over the place, playing with different linemates night after night. Schroeder is another example. He was the only guy driving the bus on the second powerplay unit, but Ebbett was preferred because of his 'versatility'.

AV may point to the likes of Tanev and Corrado as instances of him successfully integrating young players onto the team, but in fairness that was more Bowness' call than Vigneault's given the autonomy he seems to have with the blueliners. If it weren't for Edler's stagnation and the Ballard fiasco, Bowness' work with Tanev and Corrado would have been one of the only reasons I would argue for him to stay on of all the coaching staff. Then again, you could say it was as much the young players as it was the coach behind their success.