So TD, what are you looking for when you search through your neighbors trash?

Phil:

I did have a problem tenant once who was putting his trash in my other tenants garbage. I went over to the complex and sorted through each tenants garbage to find out if what they were telling me was true. I found mail addressed to the offending tenant in several tenants garbage cans.

When I asked the offending tenant to PLEASE stop putting his garbage into the other tenants garbage he told me the items addressed to him where not his and he never put garbage into any of the other tenants garbage cans.

I told the tenant if he wanted to break his lease and move out early to let me know, I would be happy to let him out of his lease early. Fortunately he took me up on my offer and moved to a unit about 50 yards from mine. The owner of that unit often complains to me what a pain in the as$ that tenant is. His wife divorced him and his only friend is his barking dog.

Having been on the receiving end of some pretty F'ed up mean spirited chat with TD. So your statement is not completely true.

On another note TD has very little respect for just about anyone, and doesn't know where to draw the line when it comes to him defending an awkward or unpopular opinion.

TD has an emotional connection to the red rocks and trails that you cannot possibly fathom. I'm sorry he digs through your trash and you had to move because he was stalking your wife but I have not seen the chit chat you speak of.

Yes, the multiple postings are annoying and he's clearly trying to exert some influence on the sedona trail scene when it appears nobody is listening. Whether or not that is true, IMO he has earned the right to do so.

How about posting some stoke for a change instead of your next rebuttal to Traildoc?

I did have a problem tenant once who was putting his trash in my other tenants garbage. I went over to the complex and sorted through each tenants garbage to find out if what they were telling me was true. I found mail addressed to the offending tenant in several tenants garbage cans.

When I asked the offending tenant to PLEASE stop putting his garbage into the other tenants garbage he told me the items addressed to him where not his and he never put garbage into any of the other tenants garbage cans.

I told the tenant if he wanted to break his lease and move out early to let me know, I would be happy to let him out of his lease early. Fortunately he took me up on my offer and moved to a unit about 50 yards from mine. The owner of that unit often complains to me what a pain in the as$ that tenant is. His wife divorced him and his only friend is his barking dog.

I really hope you're pulling a fast one on us. But on the off chance this is actually true.....can you say "creepy?"

I don't think the Mayan's are wrong! Their calendar is accurate to the second on a 5000 year cycle, modern man couldn't make a one year calendar that didn't need a 1 day adjustment over a four year period.

You have to give props to them, to see and calculate a repetitive cycle in the solar system!! Hell modern man thought the earth was flat and the center of the universe just 200 years ago!

Happy 0000!!!!

And yes I have plans for next year! Think I will look into how one would go about predicting when exactly water will be falling from the sky again so that way I can share such wisdom with TD. That way he can give the trail bosses 3 days notice for premium trail maintainence conditions!

TD has an emotional connection to the red rocks and trails that you cannot possibly fathom. I'm sorry he digs through your trash and you had to move because he was stalking your wife but I have not seen the chit chat you speak of.

Yes, the multiple postings are annoying and he's clearly trying to exert some influence on the sedona trail scene when it appears nobody is listening. Whether or not that is true, IMO he has earned the right to do so.

How about posting some stoke for a change instead of your next rebuttal to Traildoc?

Rock:

Thanks for you post. Ride'n'Shine has definitely turned the tide against me. I have lost all my credibility with the people who use to come visit me. The guy who was heading here from Boise ID just emailed me and said he is cancelling his visit. My friend from Vancouver who is staying here for three weeks also cancelled and is heading to South Mountain for the rest of his vacation.

The world is falling apart for me. I have no friends anymore due to Ride'n'Shine's efforts, whoa is me

TD has an emotional connection to the red rocks and trails that you cannot possibly fathom. I'm sorry he digs through your trash and you had to move because he was stalking your wife but I have not seen the chit chat you speak of.

Yes, the multiple postings are annoying and he's clearly trying to exert some influence on the sedona trail scene when it appears nobody is listening. Whether or not that is true, IMO he has earned the right to do so.

How about posting some stoke for a change instead of your next rebuttal to Traildoc?

Rock

This connection with the red rocks you say TD has, I have never seen. In fact when the subject of vortexes, chakras and spiritual energy comes up he kinda shakes his head and chuckles, cause he thinks its nonsense. As for not seeing the chat I speak of its because I had the moderators lock the thread due to wrongful personal information posted. I am not asking anyone to confirm what I say is true, trust me in that it is.

I do not find his multiple thread starting annoying at all, in fact it peaks my curiosity a bit.

I don't think anyone has the right to create a problem with a program in order to change policy, especially when that person has no involvement with said program.

Since TD's return to Sedona I have not bothered with most of what he posts about, until this thread.

I still find his interest in my personal life and his need to guilt me into volunteering my efforts creepy to say the least.

Did TD just trick me into writing the longest post of my life????????????????

Well, if we're going to get all rational in a TD post here is my take on the legendary TrailDoc. I think that John F has done a ton of work for Sedona that I appropriate. His trail improvements are actually improvements and not just sanitation e.g. Dan O/tps/sector25s illegal work on rocky ridge, schultz, sunset, and oldham. I've only had a few encounters with John in real life and he's an alright dude. He even gave me a shuttle for a ride once. I haven't ridden with him but by all accounts he's a strong rider. I've ridden with his wife a couple times (no this is not some weird backhanded joke) and she is a super nice woman and a good rider, I can't imagine she would settle for marriage with an actual jerk.

The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

Maybe I have his online persona all wrong and he's actually a faux-jerk genius and he's just playing us all to draw attention to Sedona. Or maybe he doesn't understand that he's talking to real people on mtbr that appear lazy to him because they don't need to post on mtbr every time they perform a trail improvement, legally or not so legally. This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

Well, if we're going to get all rational in a TD post here is my take on the legendary TrailDoc. I think that John F has done a ton of work for Sedona that I appropriate. His trail improvements are actually improvements and not just sanitation e.g. Dan O/tps/sector25s illegal work on rocky ridge, schultz, sunset, and oldham. I've only had a few encounters with John in real life and he's an alright dude. He even gave me a shuttle for a ride once. I haven't ridden with him but by all accounts he's a strong rider. I've ridden with his wife a couple times (no this is not some weird backhanded joke) and she is a super nice woman and a good rider, I can't imagine she would settle for marriage with an actual jerk.

The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

Maybe I have his online persona all wrong and he's actually a faux-jerk genius and he's just playing us all to draw attention to Sedona. Or maybe he doesn't understand that he's talking to real people on mtbr that appear lazy to him because they don't need to post on mtbr every time they perform a trail improvement, legally or not so legally. This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

Thanks for you post. Ride'n'Shine has definitely turned the tide against me. I have lost all my credibility with the people who use to come visit me. The guy who was heading here from Boise ID just emailed me and said he is cancelling his visit. My friend from Vancouver who is staying here for three weeks also cancelled and is heading to South Mountain for the rest of his vacation.

The world is falling apart for me. I have no friends anymore due to Ride'n'Shine's efforts, whoa is me

I could only imagine having that much power in your world TD!

Seriously though TD, if your friends have cancled their plans because of this thread, you need better friends!! My friend Jeff (that you mentioned buying you a meal) didn't cancle his plans to visit when I told him I was rider down! He came he saw he rode!! No strings attached no loss of faith.

TD you are one helluva mountain biker, and you know the trails as well as the next local. You ride with visitors and treat them to some serious Sedona stoke (lately without the work string attached) that by themselves would not have experienced. I commend you on your passion and not one single rider will argue it! But.... Be it online or in person, you have no respect or consideration of others that have limited experience. They are peons that need to pay their dues before you would consider them as peers. Instead of asking for a riders MTB resume so you can decide weather they are worthy of you time, try and just get to know them using the sport as common ground to build upon. MTB is different for many riders and their involment level is just as diverse.

My intentions in this thread were not to alienate you. It is simply to show this topics true nature...trying to create a problem in a policy in order to initiate change to a program that you are not involved in.

The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

Glory be upon Traildoc, hallowed is thy name! If Sedona was Saudi Arabia, Traildoc would be the self-appointed Imam.

I've got no issues with TD as a person, as he seems to be genuinely passionate and a decent advocate, it's just the me, me, me, I, I, I, self-appointed stuff I get tired of.

Fair enough, let me explain.
TD had that coming, he knows it, and the fact that he has taken it with respect is meaningful to me and a BUNCH of others on this forum! He crossed a line some 8-10 months ago with me and he lost a lot of cred on MTBR.

TD I'm still calling BS on this thread topic, but as far as the past goes we're even with me.

Jumping on the bandwagon by several forum members that never have anything positive to contribute except another opportunity to bash poor traildoc is pathetic and childish. EazyE just proved my point.

While I have more important issues in life than Sedona. To think TD has not insulted others in the past, is incorrect. Why do you think Mr. Finch has multple threads with similar responses from others? Because everyone on MTBR got together for a hot chocolate and decided to gang up on him! Why was he thrown out of the park for 6 months and fined, because the FS wanted to have a hot chocolate and gang up on him.

Being overly passionate about something may not always be a good thing. One needs to learn control along with their passion. What I see is John can dish it out. But gets a little sensitive when people poke back. Be it in jest or not.

Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

Well, if we're going to get all rational in a TD post here is my take on the legendary TrailDoc. I think that John F has done a ton of work for Sedona that I appropriate. His trail improvements are actually improvements and not just sanitation e.g. Dan O/tps/sector25s illegal work on rocky ridge, schultz, sunset, and oldham. I've only had a few encounters with John in real life and he's an alright dude. He even gave me a shuttle for a ride once. I haven't ridden with him but by all accounts he's a strong rider. I've ridden with his wife a couple times (no this is not some weird backhanded joke) and she is a super nice woman and a good rider, I can't imagine she would settle for marriage with an actual jerk.

The guy that he plays on the internet is pretty gross. TD always needs the spotlight and for people to justify his actions for him. If anyone disagrees with him about anything TD can't actually discuss what they don't agree about and instead just condescends with accusations about them being lazy or not a skilled enough rider to have an opinion. I think that most of the “TD haters” are just tired of seeing him demand attention and lash out at people that don't give him the kudos he wants. I think its pretty fun to hijack his thread with NOG, he's hijacked countless other threads demanding attention so its fun to see him get so upset when we play his own game on him.

Maybe I have his online persona all wrong and he's actually a faux-jerk genius and he's just playing us all to draw attention to Sedona. Or maybe he doesn't understand that he's talking to real people on mtbr that appear lazy to him because they don't need to post on mtbr every time they perform a trail improvement, legally or not so legally. This is a pretty good listen and I think the online form of TD fits in here somewhere: Legacy of a jerk

Keep it up John, hang it up TD.

77:

Thanks for the the insightful post. Here is the situation I may still be dealing with in Sedona. I did my time being banned for six months from the AZ Northern National Forest, I paid my $1,000 fine before the judge asked for the fine. I have paid my debt to society. I was told by the Federal attorney that my class 2 misdemeanor would not affect my employment status and I would be treated as a regular citizen once I finished my banning.

Now in Sedona we have a situation where the number one trail builder may be still working for the FS doing extensive FS new trail builds, re-routes, trail improvements and trail enhancements.

I have been corresponding with the head of the FS about this issue to see if there is an aspect of discrimination to the FS having the biggest Sedona trail builder working for them when all I did was a small trail improvement on the Tea Cup trail with implied consent and other FS new trail projects like Aerie.

The head of the FS went silent when I asked her if she knew about this trail building rockstar. He has done more for Sedona mountain biking and hiking trails then anyone in our history. He should be given the trail building of the year award and there should be benches with his name on it at every great view point of the trails he has built.

Here is the problem, when I rode the Chapel trail yesterday to get to Little Horse trail to ride the White Line trail, I noticed rocks in the Chapel trail water diverters that were blocking the function of the water diverter. I wanted to stop and clear the water diverter to keep the water from running down the trail and expediting the erosion of the trail.

I know I am not allowed to do necessary maintenance on system trails because the head of the FS says noway no how I have shown remorse for my previous Tea Cup work, so I am banned from doing needed maintenance and the trails suffer because I can't call Ride'n'Shine to do the work because he won't adopt any trails even that one which is close to the paved road.

The head of the FS won't let me email Adrian who's job it is to take care of Sedona trails because I keep asking her if the guy who built all the Sedona trails is still doing needed maintenance. Adrian said she was OK with me adopting Anaconda, but I had to get the ranger in charge to OK my being a trail boss. I didn't get that OK, so now the Sedona trails have to suffer because I can't clear the water diverters when I see a drainage problem.

My point is that water diverters are put in for a reason. When they are clogged with rocks and debris they should be cleared to reduce erosion. I have the training and desire to clear those clogged diverters but for some reason the head of the FS doesn't believe I have showed enough remorse to be allowed to clear the debris while she let's the guy deserving a medal possibly still work on the trails.

Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

My wife has left me in Sedona for the Christmas Holiday. I don't really celebrate the Christmas commercial shopping thing, but I do enjoy having mountain bikers over for a fun barbecue. Based on the party spirit of this thread, I thought maybe we could all get together for a Mountain Biking Celebration.

I will buy the roast if 77Ranger puts together an Egg Nog party of silent passionate trail improvement specialists.

Try and understand this analogy...You made yourself the Al Capone of Sedona trail builders!

Let me explain,
It was not all the "social trails" that locals "rode and walked into exisistance" that the USFS had a problem with in the perverbial straw that broke the camels back, it was your online map that pushed them over the edge. This is the general understanding I have gathered from the Sedona locals and authorities. You were just so charged up to be the MAN who was doing what he felt the USFS neglected to do and that was to create a map of all the trails in Sedona in order to improve the user experience and help visitors from getting lost!! This problem was real and needed to be taken care of. But in your haste and enthusiasm you neglected one simple fact....it's not your land to manage nor your job to do and when it hit the Internet the FS lost thier ability to effectively manage the land the way the policy that their authority had mandated. Here is the catch! What you did wasn't illegal it just wasn't policy and the USFS may have been put in a tough spot with the online map. To add fuel to this fire you went crazy with MTBR invites of tours of the trails on your map. Again nothing wrong with doing that for free or for favors, it's just not activity the USFS can support. Then you threw a powder keg on this fire by, providing your map to local bike shops that would take it and again nothing really illegal here but yet again this is activity that the USFS cannot support.

So what does an organization have to do to gain some sort of management back, eliminate the problem. Do not feel you have been mistreated by the hands of the FS when you yourself admitted to the unauthorized trail work. The (as you call him) #1 trail builder you speak of probably never ADMITTED to any unauthorized trail work (i.e. no evidence) and since you were the thorn in thier side, you became an example.

Most locals feel; while your intentions were not wrong, your actions in turn forced the hand to take action and this has set back the growth of the sport in Sedona.

It's your choice and freedom to force yourself upon the establishment, just remember your actions might have consequences you are unaware of or feel unwarranted simply because the policy the USFS has to follow is in conflict.

Happy trails!

To add; original topic...solved.

Nog topic: Has this nogfest been approved by the Nog Masters Council?
Has the host properly trained the festival staff?
Has consideration of future events been voted on by a majority of the NMC members?
Have the ingredients for the "Flight of the Faildocs" NMC Nog recipe, been approved by the QC council?

I move we gather recipes for the roast and provide to the NMC our reccomendations that will provide the party goer with his or her best party experience!

Thanks for the the insightful post. Here is the situation I may still be dealing with in Sedona. I did my time being banned for six months from the AZ Northern National Forest, I paid my $1,000 fine before the judge asked for the fine. I have paid my debt to society. I was told by the Federal attorney that my class 2 misdemeanor would not affect my employment status and I would be treated as a regular citizen once I finished my banning.

Now in Sedona we have a situation where the number one trail builder may be still working for the FS doing extensive FS new trail builds, re-routes, trail improvements and trail enhancements.

I have been corresponding with the head of the FS about this issue to see if there is an aspect of discrimination to the FS having the biggest Sedona trail builder working for them when all I did was a small trail improvement on the Tea Cup trail with implied consent and other FS new trail projects like Aerie.

The head of the FS went silent when I asked her if she knew about this trail building rockstar. He has done more for Sedona mountain biking and hiking trails then anyone in our history. He should be given the trail building of the year award and there should be benches with his name on it at every great view point of the trails he has built.

Here is the problem, when I rode the Chapel trail yesterday to get to Little Horse trail to ride the White Line trail, I noticed rocks in the Chapel trail water diverters that were blocking the function of the water diverter. I wanted to stop and clear the water diverter to keep the water from running down the trail and expediting the erosion of the trail.

I know I am not allowed to do necessary maintenance on system trails because the head of the FS says noway no how I have shown remorse for my previous Tea Cup work, so I am banned from doing needed maintenance and the trails suffer because I can't call Ride'n'Shine to do the work because he won't adopt any trails even that one which is close to the paved road.

The head of the FS won't let me email Adrian who's job it is to take care of Sedona trails because I keep asking her if the guy who built all the Sedona trails is still doing needed maintenance. Adrian said she was OK with me adopting Anaconda, but I had to get the ranger in charge to OK my being a trail boss. I didn't get that OK, so now the Sedona trails have to suffer because I can't clear the water diverters when I see a drainage problem.

My point is that water diverters are put in for a reason. When they are clogged with rocks and debris they should be cleared to reduce erosion. I have the training and desire to clear those clogged diverters but for some reason the head of the FS doesn't believe I have showed enough remorse to be allowed to clear the debris while she let's the guy deserving a medal possibly still work on the trails.

Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

Something seems screwy to me, and so far I can't figure it out, but when I do MTBR viewers will be the first to know what I find out. This valuable AZ forum has the transparency we all are looking for.

Try and understand this analogy...You made yourself the Al Capone of Sedona trail builders!

Let me explain,
It was not all the "social trails" that locals "rode and walked into exisistance" that the USFS had a problem with in the perverbial straw that broke the camels back, it was your online map that pushed them over the edge. This is the general understanding I have gathered from the Sedona locals and authorities. You were just so charged up to be the MAN who was doing what he felt the USFS neglected to do and that was to create a map of all the trails in Sedona in order to improve the user experience and help visitors from getting lost!! This problem was real and needed to be taken care of. But in your haste and enthusiasm you neglected one simple fact....it's not your land to manage nor your job to do and when it hit the Internet the FS lost thier ability to effectively manage the land the way the policy that their authority had mandated. Here is the catch! What you did wasn't illegal it just wasn't policy and the USFS may have been put in a tough spot with the online map. To add fuel to this fire you went crazy with MTBR invites of tours of the trails on your map. Again nothing wrong with doing that for free or for favors, it's just not activity the USFS can support. Then you threw a powder keg on this fire by, providing your map to local bike shops that would take it and again nothing really illegal here but yet again this is activity that the USFS cannot support.

So what does an organization have to do to gain some sort of management back, eliminate the problem. Do not feel you have been mistreated by the hands of the FS when you yourself admitted to the unauthorized trail work. The (as you call him) #1 trail builder you speak of probably never ADMITTED to any unauthorized trail work (i.e. no evidence) and since you were the thorn in thier side, you became an example.

Most locals feel; while your intentions were not wrong, your actions in turn forced the hand to take action and this has set back the growth of the sport in Sedona.

It's your choice and freedom to force yourself upon the establishment, just remember your actions might have consequences you are unaware of or feel unwarranted simply because the policy the USFS has to follow is in conflict.

Happy trails!

Ride'n'Shine:

Once again you are not being specific. Who are these individuals you are referring to. Yes I did tell Jennifer I did the work on Tea Cup that I thought I had implied consent to do. The project took about 15 minutes to complete, so even though it was badly needed for guys like you to have a chance to ride it wasn't a big project.

You have said nothing else I have done is illegal. My map is the best mountain bike map in Sedona. Bear Tooth has the second best map, but you can't use it on a SMART PHONE.

Bear Tooth has stepped up their mapping efforts because of me being their major competition. Look at the first edition of their new format. It is larger so that trails like Basalt and Kiabab can be shown with some clarity, but they have no names attached like mine has. So even though you see trail lines you have no clue what you are riding on.

Take a look at their suggested rides. They are described with a bunch of our very special trail names not just one name like Woahey suggests.

You have to understand the Sedona mountain bike scene is evolving, you say it's going backwards. OTE probably had over 1,700 bike rentals last year. Mountain Bike Heaven had half that amount, so how is mountain biking going backwards? If you were to ask Fat Tire Dave or Jimmy at Bike and Bean do you think their rentals are down over the previous year? Please answer that question.

Once again you make up stuff to match your agenda. What is your mission statement anyway. Everyone knows what mine is, but what is yours (let's ride the trails and never maintain them). In case you didn't figure it out yet you are not invited to the 77 Ranger party I am bringing the roast to.

I have no doubt one bit that bike shop biz is up, and you had something to do with it in some way.

How can I put this in a manner you can understand, if you tried to use my land in a manner that I didn't want, I would do whatever I could to stop you!

Even if you do not understand what you did wrong, you have to ask yourself a simple question, that need not be answered on this forum is this;

Have you misused in any manner USFS land that you have not owned up to in the past?

If so then there is ALLWAYS the risk that they may have evidence of it. If not then no worries.

I absolutely believe they have evidence on most of the trail building public, but they do not need to act on it until they are either forced to or have no choice due to public pressure.

The locals have been riding and walking trails into existance for decades, and I'm sure back before your online map stunt the USFS was a lot more tolerant of this activity simply because it filled a need for more trail due to increasing trail activity and traffic.

On topic, I recall you butting your inconsiderate self into the Nog festivities with gifts of roast beast, but I don't recall you being invited.

TD FYI In developing important social skills always know your position, my invitation came by association.

I have no doubt one bit that bike shop biz is up, and you had something to do with it in some way.

How can I put this in a manner you can understand, if you tried to use my land in a manner that I didn't want, I would do whatever I could to stop you!

Even if you do not understand what you did wrong, you have to ask yourself a simple question, that need not be answered on this forum is this;

Have you misused in any manner USFS land that you have not owned up to in the past?

If so then there is ALLWAYS the risk that they may have evidence of it. If not then no worries.

I absolutely believe they have evidence on most of the trail building public, but they do not need to act on it until they are either forced to or have no choice due to public pressure.

The locals have been riding and walking trails into existance for decades, and I'm sure back before your online map stunt the USFS was a lot more tolerant of this activity simply because it filled a need for more trail due to increasing trail activity and traffic.

On topic, I recall you butting your inconsiderate self into the Nog festivities with gifts of roast beast, but I don't recall you being invited.

TD FYI In developing important social skills always know your position, my invitation came by association.

Don't even try to bury the pervebial hatchet in the Nogfest!!!

R&S:

Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There have been several hundreds of new trails put on the Sedona public land in the last 400 years. What relevance does one trail have over another trail?

My Westerner buddies have a bunch of user-built trails they hike w/o posting on the internet. Are they breaking the rules when they share those trails with their friends?

I share the mountain biking trails with MTBR viewers. There is nothing illegal about that, right? What is the difference?

The FS claims there are 600,000 trail users coming to Sedona each year. At tomorrow's meeting we are being asked what percentage are hikers, bikers or equestrians. Why is that question being asked? We all know the majority of those users are actually walkers who step no more than 500' into the red dirt. When those parking lots are totally filled, and people are double parking, I guess there is a need to make more Bell Rock parking lots, right. Is that where we are going with the whole RTCA process, more large parking lots for the walkers. Parking lots are expensive, how much are they spending on the new one one Vultee Arch Rd.?

There is a guy at the RTCA meeting that wants a bigger parking lot at West Fork and Midgely Bridge. Do you think he is going to get his bigger parking lot? I say NO WAY. The FS has already determined that the size of the parking lot limits the size of the user group due to environment damage concerns. Too many walking or hiking tourons on the trail destroy the trail and the environment.

Great dodge. We need specifics not a bunch of mumbo jumbo. There have been several hundreds of new trails put on the Sedona public land in the last 400 years. What relevance does one trail have over another trail?

My Westerner buddies have a bunch of user-built trails they hike w/o posting on the internet. Are they breaking the rules when they share those trails with their friends?

I share the mountain biking trails with MTBR viewers. There is nothing illegal about that, right? What is the difference?

The FS claims there are 600,000 trail users coming to Sedona each year. At tomorrow's meeting we are being asked what percentage are hikers, bikers or equestrians. Why is that question being asked? We all know the majority of those users are actually walkers who step no more than 500' into the red dirt. When those parking lots are totally filled, and people are double parking, I guess there is a need to make more Bell Rock parking lots, right. Is that where we are going with the whole RTCA process, more large parking lots for the walkers. Parking lots are expensive, how much are they spending on the new one one Vultee Arch Rd.?

There is a guy at the RTCA meeting that wants a bigger parking lot at West Fork and Midgely Bridge. Do you think he is going to get his bigger parking lot? I say NO WAY. The FS has already determined that the size of the parking lot limits the size of the user group due to environment damage concerns. Too many walking or hiking tourons on the trail destroy the trail and the environment.

Lets just say they enjoy Nog and their user experience is always good!

Words to live by.... It's more effective to influence change in those who make policy than to influence those who follow policy, to not follow it.

64:

Thank you for trying to get names out of R&S if I ask him he calls it stalking if you ask him he calls it stalking. Get the names, please. This guy seems to not want to admit he has a hidden agenda to discredit me. What have I done WRONG, where is his mission statement? These viewers want to know the truth.

TD
My agenda or "mission statement" as you call it doesn't exist. I have no plans to change policies that I am not required to follow, I let those who are involved with it worry about it.

What concerns me about you is your ignorance. You can dismiss everything I have said in this thread, and it doesn't take away the fact that the FS has you in their crosshairs just waiting to drop an even bigger hammer upon you if you become too much of a problem for them. Knowing your personality type, you will never heed the advise of others and will push along unaware you are screwing yourself.

I’m only following this thread to find out where Chollaball lives. I use to go to his old place in Chandler and dig through his trash looking for a pair of his wives underwear. He screwed me all up by moving and now I don’t know where he lives. I was going to ask him where his new place is but I figured that he might not understand.

Hey TD... Why are you even *****ing about the approval process in your OP when you have not or probably never will be allowed to adopt a trail? Why not focus on something that will have an impact on your life like that cure for your mental illness you mentioned your brother in law was working on.. Hows that working for you ?