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Who believes $1000 is a fair price for an adapter?

Who believes $1000 is a fair price for an adapter?

Submitted by NO2PTRL on Thu, 2014-04-10 21:54

$1000 really?
If I didn't know better I would say Tesla is trying to discourage us from using this company!

NRG eVGO is installing stations that can charge our cars 150 miles an hour, BUT.......

I stopped to see one yesterday at the Camarillo outlet malls. Their Freedom Stations can charge a Tesla 150 miles in an hour, 5 times faster than a level 2, but only 1/2 the speed of Tesla's super Charging stations. These stations could come in vary handy in an emergency, but I have been told that we can't use them at this point because our car didn't come with the correct adapter for this unit.

I have also been told that the adapter will cost $1000, which seems to be very userous. I have never heard of an adapter costing so much. I have purchased several over the years, and this one would seem to be gold plated.

I called NRG today and talked to a rep for about 30 minutes. They fit their charging stations for the majority of electric vehicles, which did not include Tesla.

He said that adapters are available over seas but are in the process of being tested here.

He indicated that Tesla will produce the adapter, and he agreed that they are way to expensive. He was going to ask his boss if they could include an adapter at each unit.

$1000.00 is ridicules!

If I didn't no better, I would assume that Tesla is charging so much to discourage us from going with this company.

Call 855-509-5581 to talk to a company rep and voice your concerns, or e-mail Tesla.

$1000 is just crazy!

AmpedRealtor |
10 aprile 2014

Don't buy it.

negarholger |
10 aprile 2014

@Sterlingllc1

$1000 for the ChaDemo adapter is cheap.

NO2PTRL |
10 aprile 2014

Nice........

Kleist, why do you say that $1000 is cheap?

SUN 2 DRV |
10 aprile 2014

$1,000 seems like a very reasonable price to me. It's not just a physical plug interface issue but rather includes a protocol converter.

Like Amped said, if it's not worth the price to you then don't buy one. Or consider building one of your own if you know how to do it cheaper.

Tâm |
10 aprile 2014

@Sterlingllc1

I am in agreement with Kleist.

Us Model S users are spoiled with cheap prices and we don't realize it!

Look at Roadster J1772 slow adapter. It's $ 750.00 for one piece and we could buy a whole portable charger bundle for Model S for $650.

For $250 more, at the price of $1,000 you can charge much faster than J1772 can, so what's the complaint?

NO2PTRL |
10 aprile 2014

Don't shot the messenger.

Are Tesla's other adapters so expensive, please explain!

If this is truly economical fine, but this just seems like fan boys falling all over themselves, and I am a big fan boy but maybe not such a lemming.

NRG felt that $1000 was over priced, I felt that $1000 was over priced.
How long will it take for pay back?

lolachampcar |
10 aprile 2014

Sterlingllc1
If you are truly interested in why the adaptor costs as much as it does, please seek out the specification for 1772 DC charging (fundamentally the electrical interface Tesla adheres to although Tesla's connector is a much more elegant solution) and compare that to the ChaDemo interface specification. I believe you will better understand why the "adaptor" is so bloody expensive.

If you are not the technical type, think of how you would build a Betamax to VHS "adaptor". You buy BM machine then hook the video inputs/outputs to a VHS machine and now you have an "adaptor". The analogy is not perfect but you get the idea. Actually, I've made assumptions about your age (I'm an old fart) so perhaps I should have used a PC to Mac adaptor. The idea is similar.

and also remember, you are upset over and adaptor price from a company that is building out a nation wide network of twice as fast chargers for your car which are free to use :)

negarholger |
10 aprile 2014

@Sterlingllc1 - any idea what goes into that adapter?

Sudre_ |
10 aprile 2014

If you look an any electrical parts site you will find that just a 600volt 100amp weather proof non-fusible DC disconnect can costs up to $500.

I would expect a custom made converter to cost a lot more since it includes a switch, two 50kW connectors (one end plugs in the car the other accepts the charger's cord) and electronics to covert communications.

No harm in petitioning Tesla to lower the price tho.... one never knows.

SCCRENDO |
10 aprile 2014

It is expensive. Going up to Oregon early May. Chargers are scanty along the Oregon coast. They have scattered Level 2 chargers accompanied by a Chademo. For my trip I believe it would give piece of mind. Unfortunately they are only available late May, early June. Looks like I'm going to have to hope for available Level 2 chargers near my hotels otherwise I may be spending many hours hanging around parking lots. A Chademo could allow me a quick hour charge while having a meal. Looks like in the near future Nissan dealers are installing Chademo at most of their dealerships so could be very useful when we go off the Supercharger highway although within a year this may be moot. Bottom line if it were available today I would buy one. However unless I do a similar trip in the next year or say I think I may rely on the supercharger network.

NO2PTRL |
10 aprile 2014

Lola, thank you, you at least make sense of things.

I agree that Tesla is building out our beloved charging stations, but when driving around town and having a change of plans, maybe a detour to help a friend, stopping at a level 2 station which takes an hour for 28 miles just doesn't cut it, but 150 miles in an hour could make a big difference.

These stations are being placed in convenient locations around town, but for $1000 the pay back seems a long term investment.

If that is the cost to make this unit, fine, but isn't it a tad more than the other adapters available for the car?

lolachampcar |
10 aprile 2014

It is hugely more expensive than the other adaptors. As another poster has said, all the another adaptors are basically fancy short 240V extension cords with a different connector at each end. You can see how these would be inexpensive to produce in quantity thus Tesla's price.

50 KW DC interfaces that switch communication protocols are a bear to design, manufacture and then certify. I'm actually a bit surprised Tesla is doing this and can not for the life of me think it has any profit margin by the time you amortize the required engineering over the very small number of units they will produce.

WRT 240V charging, I've been living with the available charging infrastructure with my cars for over a year now. My move was to make sure I had twin chargers as that provided me 60 mph of charging for when the unexpected happens. 20 KW of charging is not ChaDemo 50 KW but at least it is twice as good as the standard 10 KW.

Sudre_ |
10 aprile 2014

Think of it more like an entirely different UMC which cost about $600 and that UMC is not a 50kW device.

The Chademo adapter does not incorporate your UMC at all (like the other adapters do). It is it's own thing completely... so basically you are purchasing another UMC with a much higher kW rating.

Two
- UMC = every car has one meaning high volume production
- ChaDemo adapter... maybe 1-2% of owners will buy = low volume.

NO2PTRL |
10 aprile 2014

Thank guys, I just wanted to understand why it cost so much.

With Tesla Charging stations going up all around us, I can't see many Tesla owners paying $1000 for this convenience, but with 30,000 plus Tesla's on the road I would think that NRG might want to subsidize these unit to get our business.

I just don't see the value of paying $1000 for the convenience of reducing around town range anxiety.

Amped was probably right, no one will buy it until the price comes down.

Amped, have you placed your order?

Tâm |
10 aprile 2014

@Sterlingllc1

TEPCO (yes, that famous nuclear meltdown company) promotes CHAdemo.

However, Honda EV fit, Toyota RAV 4 EV in Japan and others in Europe and USA don't buy into CHAdeMo!

Its future is uncertain in the US because the US standard is SAE combo, NOT CHAdeMo.

Against that background, I am surprised that Tesla even sells it to you, at any price!

It's a temporary but costly solution until Superhargers are populated.

No question that you already paid quite a lot for your car.

However, when compare to our predecessors Roadster owners, theirs started about $110,000 and by time they added options and taxes, their cars were almost $200,000!

Remember, before Tesla, protesters offered GM over a million dollar to keep EV1 but GM refused the money and crushed EV1 instead.

So to put in perspective, yes, Tesla charges us a lot of money.

But it is still cheap because they satisfy our requests for a price.

Captain_Zap |
10 aprile 2014

That is why so many places are putting in the inexpensive Clipper Creek CS 100 charging stations that everyone can use with a cheap J1772 adapter.

SCCRENDO |
10 aprile 2014

Problem though the J1772 is slow and not always in a convenient location to a hotel.

NO2PTRL |
10 aprile 2014

Tam,

It is strange how their web site does not come up, but I did get their customer service and then corporate office on the line.

Their charging stations at the Camarillo outlet mall were very impressive. They were well marked as electric car charging stations only, and corporate said that retailers take a no nonsense attitude towards ICE cars parking in their spots. The parking lot was full, but NOT ONE ICE was parked in these spots.

I wouldn't mind getting a 150 mile charge in an hour, is anyone else "besides Tesla" giving that kind of charge?
Is anyone even coming close?

shop |
10 aprile 2014

UMC adapters cost $45, but the Chademo adapter is a very different animal. It would take a while to explain, but the posters above are correct, it is actually a bargain at $1000.

Do note that Tesla doesn't owe us any Chademo adapter at all. They support a standard (J1772) and a very fast and free proprietary standard. And now, as an option, it supports another fast DC charging solution. Which is more than any other manufacturer on the planet can say.

No other EV supports TWO fast DC charging standards (of which one is free to use). Other manufacturers are more than welcome to license Tesla's supercharger protocol, none have.

Tâm |
10 aprile 2014

@Sterlingllc1:

Due to the novelty and low volume demand, Tesla pricing is justifiable.

I do appreciate your effort in bringing down the adapter price.

I welcome electric outlets and chargers in any size and shape, anytime and anywhere so I do praise NRG eVGO for making EV charging easier.

negarholger |
10 aprile 2014

@shop - wait until they make an adapter for the not yet finalized but most clumsy CSS proposed standard... that adapter would be straight pins and cost less.

NO2PTRL |
10 aprile 2014

TU Shop.

Tam,
My post was intended to understand why an adapter could cost $1000, thanks to all of your posts, I now understand. But I still wonder why other providers can't provide a charge near 150 miles per hour, other than Tesla?

I will choke buying this adapter, but it might be my best option around town.

That is unless the Tesla station opens near my home in Oxnard Ca. I heard that it was in the works, but then nothing.

But then I would be nothing more than those locals clogging up the Hawthorn station, or any station positioned near many owners, allowing travelers to just sit and wait.

In conclusion, it's a free country, so do what is right for your situation.

tes-s |
11 aprile 2014

If it is worth more than $1000 to you, buy it. If not, don't.

Perhaps they could include a Tesla nozzle on the charging station? Compared to the cost of the charging station and installation, it seems $1000 would not be that much.

Mark K |
11 aprile 2014

Would be much cooler if Tesla instead installed them permanently at CHADeMO stations so we could all buy fractional ownership access for say, $100.

With free SuperChargers, we'd rarely use the pay-to-play CHAdeMO stations, but at a modest price, it's a nice backup.

Doesn't make sense to have thousands of owners buy and lug them, when hundreds of permanent installs would do the trick at much lower cost.

The CHAdeMO network operators would welcome it because every car is a paying customer for their power.

theapple |
11 aprile 2014

As an Electrical Engineer myself, I'm going to go with totally fair. 125A is a huge amount of current; at that point, even contacts and wires start to get expensive. Then add in the active electronics to translate the protocols and amortize the several months' engineering and NRE over the relatively few adapters they're likely to sell. The other 'adapters' are just injection molded plastic over a NEMA plug with a simple ID chip.

I would like you to notice the difference between you original post when starting this thread

>$1000 really?
>If I didn't know better I would say Tesla is trying to discourage us >from using this company!

and your post from later on after others had contributed reasons...

>Thank guys, I just wanted to understand why it cost so much.

You started out by accusing Tesla of trying to rip you off, instead of a simple question.

I'll also add an additional reason, besides the complexity of this particular adapter: When Tesla made the adapters that come with the car, the NEMA 5-15, NEMA 14-50, and the J7221, they could amortize the costs of designing, testing, and tooling up to make these adapters over the thousands (or potentially hundreds of thousands) of adapters.

In addition, as other posters have pointed out, that the other adapters are an order of magnitude easier and cheaper to make than this one is.

If Tesla sells only a couple of hundred of these adapters, they have to amortize the costs over only the couple of hundred adapters they sell. If it costs them $200,000 to design, test, and tool up, and they sell 2,000 adapters, that alone is $1,000 per adapter.

info |
11 aprile 2014

@Everyone: Idea! It appears to me that it's expensive to produce an adaptor because of R&D, not production, but that being said, I think the consensus is that you need to make a personal decision if it's right for you. But here's a suggestion. Since this adaptor would be rarely used, maybe Tesla would rent one on a weekly basis. You could pick it up at the local service center, go on you trip and drop it off at the service center near your destination. Do the same on return trip. Unless you need the adaptor often, it would make sense to do this. Sort of like renting tire chains to go into the snowy mountains.

carlk |
11 aprile 2014

The price will be much lower if they can sell tens of thousands of it. But as it is there may be only a few purchases to share the engineering and production costs. The high price also made sure there will not be a lot of sales until if ChaDemo becomes so popular that every MS owner would want one. I'm not sure that will happen in the near future though.

tes-s |
11 aprile 2014

@info - there are lots of rent-it companies out there. If they believe there is a market for renting them and making a profit, they will buy them and rent them.

If you have a rental center near you, just go ask them - will they buy one if you rent it for a week?

Kutu |
11 aprile 2014

I keep seeing where it stated that J1772 is slow. As I understand it, some J1772's can be go over 40 Amps. I did assume that not all would go that high, but some would, I'm I wrong?

LMB |
11 aprile 2014

(LMB spouse)

@Kutu - Yeah but 40 amps at 208 or 240 AC volts = 8.3 or 9.6 kilowatts or about 25 to 28 miles per hour charge rate. CHAdeMO is 125 amps at 300 to 400 DC volts (empty S60 to full x85) = 37.5 to 50 kilowatts or 112 to 150 miles per hour. So, yeah, 40 amp J1772 is much slower.

Webcrawler |
11 aprile 2014

I'll probably buy on. Lots of chademo in Tennessee and the superchargers are not expected until the end of the 2015 in the area. It would be a lot easier to make a Northern trip from Atlanta with one of the adapters...

Dwdnjck@ca |
11 aprile 2014

Tesla have been driven over 200million miles. 95% of those miles are from charging at home. 4.999% of those miles are from super chargers. The reason teslas are so expensive is that they have this huge battery pack that virtually makes charging during the day,without supercharging, unnecessary. Most people who can afford a Tesla can plan their day we'll enough to not have to charge away from home, except when traveling. Local charging stations are there to service the city cars. We really don't need them. Over night "slow charging " is what matters.

AmpedRealtor |
11 aprile 2014

@ Sterlingllc1,

No, I'm not buying one. I don't really have a need. I rarely drive more than 250 miles in a day. I'm blessed with a supercharger where I live as well as along the major corridors where I travel, and I have a HPWC at home.

shop |
11 aprile 2014

Sterling, why do you need a station close to your home? I take it you have an unusual situation that prevents you from charging overnight? If so, remedying THAT situation would seem to make more sense - you might even be able to do it for less than $1000.

negarholger |
11 aprile 2014

@AR - that is funny... you were one of the folks that asked for the adapter before you got the car - now you learned it is not needed.

I will buy one just to reward Tesla for the effort. I could have used it once in my 12+ months driving. I see it as an insurance to the flatbed alternative.

sule |
11 aprile 2014

As some noted ... I'd like to see them at ChaDemo stations themselves, for rent. Short of that, I'd like to be able to rent them from anywhere if/when I go on a long trip where I might need one - say my local Tesla SC...

Otherwise, buying it and quite possibly never using it does not turn into a good investment. Buying it out because I need it for a single trip is also questionable.

So, price wise, I can see how it can cost $1000. I'd just like a different business model.

Captain_Zap |
11 aprile 2014

@LMB & Kutu

You are limited if you have a single charger. Dual/Twin chargers double the rate. Yes. You can charge much faster on a J1772. You can get 58 mph on a J1772 with dual/twin chargers.

Spot on. I initially thought it might be needed, but after having the car now for almost 8 months I can say that the range of the P85 is more than I need for 99% of my driving.

Captain_Zap |
11 aprile 2014

I double and triple checked. Here is the J1772 scoop:

With twin/dual chargers on board, the Clipper Creek CS100 stations (100A) will allow the Model S to charge up to to 80A, if you hit the Roadster override button on the unit.

Roadsters can't handle 80A, so the units automatically restrict the amperage unless you acknowledge that you car is capable of accepting 80A by hitting the button.

This is a bit of tribal knowledge that isn't well documented.

These charging units are cheap to install because they are AC and the adapters are cheap too. CHAdeMO is much more expensive to install and the adapters are much more expensive.

d_kaufman |
11 aprile 2014

A final alternative, if Tesla doesn't rent the Chademo adapter themselves, is for regional owners groups to pool funds and share them. What most people are saying is that they need the adapter rarely and for short(ish) periods for exceptional trips. Sharing cost and use makes eminent sense for that situation. The problem with Tesla renting them out might be that they never recover their development costs.

NO2PTRL |
11 aprile 2014

I like the rental idea....

SHOP, have you not read the reports of Charging stations being packed with folks who live near by, getting their free charge for the night, while folks traveling through have to sit and wait?

We buy these $100,000 cars then want free fuel if a station is near our house. I can't say that I won't do it also, but if I see that it is crowded, I will move along.

So don't be that guy, clogging a local station while folks who really need it have to sit and wait.

After all, it just isn't that expensive to charge at home.

NO2PTRL |
11 aprile 2014

Tam,

Thank you for the update about Oxnard. I will go and try and get a picture.

And I apologize for getting feisty with this post. A bit of wine and a $1000 adapter is a bad combination.

I AM A RAVING FAN OF MY TESLA AND ELON AND CREW.

Tâm |
11 aprile 2014

Well said Sterlingllc1.

LMB |
11 aprile 2014

(LB spouse)

@Captain_Zap -Agreed, you can get 58 MPG if you have dual chargers and a J1772 station that provides 80 amps and is running on 240 and not 208. The latter is found more often in commercial settings.

I replied to a post that appeared to be asking about 40 amp J1772 and meant no disrespect to those with dual chargers and access to high-current J1772. Here in the northeast, those seem to be pretty rare.

KenN |
11 aprile 2014

FYI, the pricing of the Chademo adapter includes a licensing fee paid to the patent owner. Tesla just funnels that fee through.

I have no idea what the fee is, but I have heard that it's enough to have a noticable affect on the pricing.