Falcons115 wrote:this is my first post here, thought i registered awhile ago but i guess not, anyway the 3 guys, i want to Tribe to take but 2 will not be there is Dylan Bundy, Trevor Bauer, and Archie Bradley, and lately all the "draft experts" have been hearing Sonny Gray, and Jed Bradley, but i dont see as much upside in them as Bradley, so im glad people are hearing Bradley now

Welcome to the boards! What makes you say Archie Bradley won't be available? From everything I've been reading, he'll be there. In no certain order, the six I'm hearing before us will be Cole, Rendon, Bauer, Hultzen, Bundy, Starling for sure.. then there's the one wild card kicker that I'm hearing could be Barnes or Lindor. That would leave Archie still on the board. We'll see.

no i meant the 2 that wont be available will be Bundy and Bauer, i know or atleast am fairly hopeful Archie will be there

criznit2009 wrote:I dont follow this as closely as the rest of guys but from what i can tell we will have 2 "noteable" options at our pick. Bradley and Lindor - Starling might be there but Bauer definitely will not.

Starling will be long gone, as will Bauer. All of a sudden, Bauer is a top three pick. I had him top five, but Keith Law is saying top three now. Starling will either go to the Royals or Nats. I'm even hearing a few rumblings of Lindor to the Dbacks. I don't see it, but who knows. Archie should still be there.. cross my fingers.

I agree with the Archie fans. He'd be a great add to the system. Lindor...not so much(IMO, & I'm in the minority here). I like a SS with great D. I believe Lindor will be GG caliber. I'm not convinced he'll hit. If he's the pick I'll be a big fan but I think #8 is too high for a defensive specialist. Now in Round 2, with Julius Gaines available...

OhioBaseball wrote:I get the impression the price tag on Archie Bradley will be significantly higher than $3.5 million. I hate buying guys out of football scholarships b/c it's hollow value, but I think he may cost $5 million or so just on talent. My opinion, but Bradley compares favorably to Jameson Taillon, 2nd overall selection last year that got $6.5 million. Taillon was the 2nd overall pick, whereas the Indians pick 8th overall, so that's a difference, but both are 6'4"-6'5", strong-bodied pitchers that are athletic, can throw mid 90s and have advanced breaking balls. I'd even argue that Bradley's delivery is more simple as well as polished and he's more advanced than Taillon at similar ages. Bradley might be less projectable, but I think a fair amount of scouts would like Bradley more than Taillon, or consider them equals. I've never seen either in person, but judging off various videos, I think Taillon's delivery is a little higher effort and has more moving parts, which might contribute to command problems -- I prefer Bradley. You could argue that Taillon got too much money from the Pirates at $6.5 million (I would argue this), but regardless the precedent has been set and it matters. I think Bradley's price tag will be in excess of $5 million. You've also got Dylan Bundy out there but he may be off the board at 8.

The question is; spend $5 million on one 18 year old, or draft and sign Jungmann for half that amount and invest the additional $2.5 million in another two HS arms that fell into later rounds (or invest that saved money in the major league team)? The Indians of yesteryear would have done the latter, but perhaps it will be different this time around?

Just me thinking out loud.

BTW, Keith Law recently said he does not expect Trevor Bauer to last beyond the third overall selection.

Disagree with you. Taillon is way ahead of where I have Archie Bradley. I really like Bradley, don't get me wrong.. but I'd take Taillon every day of the week. I also don't believe it's going to take upwards of 5 million to sign him. To me, he's a lot more signable than people think. I don't view his football scholarship as much of a road block. If I had to guess, I'd say his contract, if he ends up at 8, would be roughly $4.75 million. Dylan Bundy will be long off the board by the time we select.

I would MUCH rather take Bradley at 8 and spend the money than select Jungmann. Jungmann has been great this year in college, but I view him as a MOR starter in the bigs, where as Bradley is a FOR. Complete night and day difference, in my eyes. Definitely worth the extra cash.

So, what exactly does Taillon have that Bradley does not? I think Taillon has a quicker arm, but I think Bradley is the better overall prospect. Taillon hasn't been all that great this year if you check his stats, btw.

OhioBaseball wrote:I get the impression the price tag on Archie Bradley will be significantly higher than $3.5 million. I hate buying guys out of football scholarships b/c it's hollow value, but I think he may cost $5 million or so just on talent. My opinion, but Bradley compares favorably to Jameson Taillon, 2nd overall selection last year that got $6.5 million. Taillon was the 2nd overall pick, whereas the Indians pick 8th overall, so that's a difference, but both are 6'4"-6'5", strong-bodied pitchers that are athletic, can throw mid 90s and have advanced breaking balls. I'd even argue that Bradley's delivery is more simple as well as polished and he's more advanced than Taillon at similar ages. Bradley might be less projectable, but I think a fair amount of scouts would like Bradley more than Taillon, or consider them equals. I've never seen either in person, but judging off various videos, I think Taillon's delivery is a little higher effort and has more moving parts, which might contribute to command problems -- I prefer Bradley. You could argue that Taillon got too much money from the Pirates at $6.5 million (I would argue this), but regardless the precedent has been set and it matters. I think Bradley's price tag will be in excess of $5 million. You've also got Dylan Bundy out there but he may be off the board at 8.

The question is; spend $5 million on one 18 year old, or draft and sign Jungmann for half that amount and invest the additional $2.5 million in another two HS arms that fell into later rounds (or invest that saved money in the major league team)? The Indians of yesteryear would have done the latter, but perhaps it will be different this time around?

Just me thinking out loud.

BTW, Keith Law recently said he does not expect Trevor Bauer to last beyond the third overall selection.

Disagree with you. Taillon is way ahead of where I have Archie Bradley. I really like Bradley, don't get me wrong.. but I'd take Taillon every day of the week. I also don't believe it's going to take upwards of 5 million to sign him. To me, he's a lot more signable than people think. I don't view his football scholarship as much of a road block. If I had to guess, I'd say his contract, if he ends up at 8, would be roughly $4.75 million. Dylan Bundy will be long off the board by the time we select.

I would MUCH rather take Bradley at 8 and spend the money than select Jungmann. Jungmann has been great this year in college, but I view him as a MOR starter in the bigs, where as Bradley is a FOR. Complete night and day difference, in my eyes. Definitely worth the extra cash.

So, what exactly does Taillon have that Bradley does not? I think Taillon has a quicker arm, but I think Bradley is the better overall prospect. Taillon hasn't been all that great this year if you check his stats, btw.

The Pirates have been rather conservative with Taillon, so I don't think the numbers tell the whole story. He still has that big arm velocity and FOR potential. Taillon is much more polished than Bradley. Keep in mind he's a young kid too, so they're not going to throw him into the wolves as much as a more ready collegiate prospect. I expect him to break out more in 2012 when the Pirates give the kid more of a leash. If you don't think Archie Bradley will struggle coming out of the gate either... then there's no hope. Basically, point is, don't rely on stats.

Though things will definitely change between now and 7. I still believe Bauer has a chance to slip in the top three, Arizona and Chicago's pick is somewhat unpredictable, IMO. I also think Lindor could slip in the top ten as well.

Is it remotely possibly they draft Gray with the intention of expitiding him to the ML as a back end guy? Seems unlikely but he would do well there prolly. If they end up taking him I hope that is the plan, there are others I like much more for long term growth.

A.Zajac wrote:Taillon's fastball is a huge plus pitch that ranges from 94-97 that has great movement, he has a plus curve and slider as well. Physically, the kid is a beast. He's huge.

Bradley also has a plus fastball usually about 93-96, his curve is above average, but I stop short to say it's a plus pitch yet. His changeup still needs some refining.

Taillon has him beat physically, no doubt. They both somewhat struggle with command. And Taillon has more polished pitches, IMO.

First, I disagree with Taillon beating him physically with "no doubt". Bradley's body is smaller, but he's got a stronger, more athletic build. Taillon's shoulders are sloped off and his body is comparatively softer. I think you're basing this assessment purely off of listed height and weight which is not the entire story. To supplement rehearsing scouting reports on the net, take a look at the guys. Bradley is quite impressive physically.

One important thing you neglected was the two's deliveries. Taillon is higher effort (hence higher velo) and he's got more moving parts, and he falls off the mound quite a bit. This can adversely impact his command. Justin Verlander does a very similar thing, however, and it works for him so it's not necessarily so bad. I do remember seeing Verlander in college his junior year (he looked awesome w/ Team USA the summer before) and he had some struggles with command in more than a few starts and it scared some scouts, but I thought it was mostly nit-picking. Bradley's delivery is very polished and simple with no wasted movement which I think gives him better future command. Different types of pitchers, though.

However, I do agree that Taillon gets better movement on his fastball.

I think it takes less time for Bradley to reach the majors than Taillon, barring injuries. Taillon is a Verlander-type and Bradley is a Halladay-type. Different types of a pitcher.

I'm actually not sure what I'm even arguing here. I prefer Bradley, but think Taillon is also quite talented. I was saying the two were comparable pitching prospects, you said you disagreed but suggested a very similar signing bonus to what I suggested for Bradley. Don't think we are far apart.

Lloyd Christmas wrote:A couple of well respected draft guys have said they would be surprised if Lindor is not taken #2 by Seattle. That would shake it up a bit. Do you take Rendon if he somehow falls all the way?

Of course you do. His bat is too good to pass up even if he's unable to play 3rd or 2nd base (which I don't think will be a problem when he gets healthy).

Lloyd Christmas wrote:A couple of well respected draft guys have said they would be surprised if Lindor is not taken #2 by Seattle. That would shake it up a bit. Do you take Rendon if he somehow falls all the way?

Of course you do. His bat is too good to pass up even if he's unable to play 3rd or 2nd base (which I don't think will be a problem when he gets healthy).

I agree, if he's there you seriously have to consider taking him, but I don't see how he slips quite that far.

Thats the cool thing with this draft. Lot of potential top tier talents to argue over which the Indians should get.v

You can't predict things with a certainty when sitting at #8 so things can change, but knowing what I know I have a good feeling that the Indians are going hard for upside/ceiling with their first pick which points to a high school guy. We'll see.

TonyIPI wrote:You can't predict things with a certainty when sitting at #8 so things can change, but knowing what I know I have a good feeling that the Indians are going hard for upside/ceiling with their first pick which points to a high school guy. We'll see.

Damn, that's good news. Ain't it great when you have guys with brains running the draft.

Rendon and Cole will certainly be gone by the time the Indians draft at #8, so it's doubtful those are the two guys. It is more likely that the two guys the Indians are referring to in this story are Bubba Starling and Francisco Lindor. Both are impact / high skill players that infuse the system with position players & improve the Indian's overall farm system in areas that the Indians are not already very deep (starting pitching/pitching in general)... imho

TonyIPI wrote:You can't predict things with a certainty when sitting at #8 so things can change, but knowing what I know I have a good feeling that the Indians are going hard for upside/ceiling with their first pick which points to a high school guy. We'll see.

Damn, that's good news. Ain't it great when you have guys with brains running the draft.

Brad Grant was added to the staff of the guy who ran the draft before his arrival.. so, essentially..the same guys are running the draft. By the addition of Brad Grant, the Indians have added another experienced set of eyes..a good move.

Prior to now, now and into the future is not the time, nor will it ever be the time to slam a guy.. if you want to do that, become a Red Sox fan. They're always good at slamming what they don't understand...

Man, talk about a new mock. Personally, I don't see Hultzen falling to 7. No way. And again I reiterate, I don't think Jed Bradley will be our pick. He says there's still a push for Sonny Gray. Eh, whatever, Law. We'll see what Goldstein and Gallis have to say this morning.

TonyIPI wrote:You can't predict things with a certainty when sitting at #8 so things can change, but knowing what I know I have a good feeling that the Indians are going hard for upside/ceiling with their first pick which points to a high school guy. We'll see.

Damn, that's good news. Ain't it great when you have guys with brains running the draft.

Brad Grant was added to the staff of the guy who ran the draft before his arrival.. so, essentially..the same guys are running the draft. By the addition of Brad Grant, the Indians have added another experienced set of eyes..a good move.

Prior to now, now and into the future is not the time, nor will it ever be the time to slam a guy.. if you want to do that, become a Red Sox fan. They're always good at slamming what they don't understand...

I agree with you about not slamming the guy (Mirabelli). The facts are that our drafting was pretty bad during his tenor which is a combination of bad luck (Miller, Whitlock...), no patience (Gutherie) and bad picks (Snyder, Mills, Drennan). As Mirabelli is still in charge of scouting (Which he as done a good job on), it just shows there was a change in philosophy when Grant took over. Mirabelli's guys still scout but the picks have been better recently so Grant does deserve a whole lot of credit here.

We can't get those bad drafts back . We can only look forward. Mirabelli is still with the organization!!!

I agree with you about not slamming the guy (Mirabelli). The facts are that our drafting was pretty bad during his tenor which is a combination of bad luck (Miller, Whitlock...), no patience (Gutherie) and bad picks (Snyder, Mills, Drennan). As Mirabelli is still in charge of scouting (Which he as done a good job on), it just shows there was a change in philosophy when Grant took over. Mirabelli's guys still scout but the picks have been better recently so Grant does deserve a whole lot of credit here.

We can't get those bad drafts back . We can only look forward. Mirabelli is still with the organization!!!

Talk about jumping the gun. How do you know the past few drafts are good? I would wait to see how good his picks turn out to be in the Majors before giving him credit for drafting well.

TonyIPI wrote:You can't predict things with a certainty when sitting at #8 so things can change, but knowing what I know I have a good feeling that the Indians are going hard for upside/ceiling with their first pick which points to a high school guy. We'll see.

Damn, that's good news. Ain't it great when you have guys with brains running the draft.

Brad Grant was added to the staff of the guy who ran the draft before his arrival.. so, essentially..the same guys are running the draft. By the addition of Brad Grant, the Indians have added another experienced set of eyes..a good move.

Prior to now, now and into the future is not the time, nor will it ever be the time to slam a guy.. if you want to do that, become a Red Sox fan. They're always good at slamming what they don't understand...

Directly quoting Brad Grant from Tony's interview: "I rely on John a lot for his evaluations and his experience in the draft room. He is invaluable to me in terms of those two things, but at the same time he allows me to ultimately make the decision in the end who we scout and who we draft."

As long as that plays out we're alright, if what Keith Law says transpires we're screwed in terms of getting that high ceiling guy.

Yes Law says its either Jed Bradley or Jungmann

To be honest, I couldn't disagree with Law more. I don't see Jungmann or Bradley. I believe if Archie isn't there, we go either Sonny Gray, Joe Ross, or Francisco Lindor.

Joe Ross has committed to UCLA and their amazing baseball program.. Like his brother, Tyson (who committed to UCal), the expectation is that Joe Ross will be going to college. If this is the case, and it most likely is, cross Joe Ross off the list. W/R to Sonny Gray..@ the # 8 spot, I'm just not a fan of short right handers who's best spot may be as a back of the pen closer a la Paul Shuey.. Francisco Lindor would be an okay choice at # 8 and would fill an organizational need. I am not so certain he would be the BPA. There are too many impact players that would be suitable for the Indians at the # 8 that should be selected over Ross/Gray/Lindor.

BTW...If the Indians truly believe they need a back of the pen guy, Osrich from Oregon may be available when the 67th overall pick comes up...

As long as that plays out we're alright, if what Keith Law says transpires we're screwed in terms of getting that high ceiling guy.

Yes Law says its either Jed Bradley or Jungmann

To be honest, I couldn't disagree with Law more. I don't see Jungmann or Bradley. I believe if Archie isn't there, we go either Sonny Gray, Joe Ross, or Francisco Lindor.

Joe Ross has committed to UCLA and their amazing baseball program.. Like his brother, Tyson (who committed to UCal), the expectation is that Joe Ross will be going to college. If this is the case, and it most likely is, cross Joe Ross off the list. W/R to Sonny Gray..@ the # 8 spot, I'm just not a fan of short right handers who's best spot may be as a back of the pen closer a la Paul Shuey.. Francisco Lindor would be an okay choice at # 8 and would fill an organizational need. I am not so certain he would be the BPA. There are too many impact players that would be suitable for the Indians at the # 8 that should be selected over Ross/Gray/Lindor.

BTW...If the Indians truly believe they need a back of the pen guy, Osrich from Oregon may be available when the 67th overall pick comes up...

Just something to remember .... the effect of 1 or 2 games in a long season. I don't mind picking 8th, yet if a few scenarios work out it looks like we may be in a pickle on who to choose. For what is a deep draft ... there are a good 6 top prime-time candidates .... Cole, Rondon, Bundy, Bauer, Starling and Hultzen. No one, I think, would be worried if we got the 6th picke by losing one more game and not tied with Washington for the 6th/8th spot (had the 6th spot - as someone would fall to us). Now, even if we get A. Bradley, we may have too spend a lot to get him to come here (meaning one or two less HS to spend the money on) and with Law's draft, we won't even get him. How things work out - no one knows until tonight. We will see.

Just bringing it up because even though Cavs came out strong with the ping pong balls, If we didn't go 5-5 and Minnesota 0-10 the last 10 games (and even Washington's tank job the last 20 games), we could have picked up the 1-2 picks if we had the worst record as Minnesota's ping-pong balls would have been assigned to us and we would have still had the Clippers pick. And, per some draft experts we may be out of getting either Williams or Kanter at #4 which most Cav fans want after Irving. Just how one spot can make a difference.

Just need to cross your fingers that someone takes a Linder or someone else from left field early on.

Last edited by petes999 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Under this scenario, I would be displeased if the Indians passed on Archie because of bonus concerns, but wouldn't be at all upset with picking up Alex Meyer from Kentucky. Meyer is a stud. He'd be much more signable than the other two impact guys that I'd take.

Dan Turkenkopf: From the various sources I've read, it's hard to say whether Cleveland has made any decision yet about their pick. My guess is Bradley will still be there when they draft, and he might be tough to pass up. I'm not a big fan of drafting for need in the early rounds, so taking a high upside pick is something I'd support.

hear a lot of Bradley to O's, hopefully its just smoke, and if Rendon is there for them can they really pass him up? im just hoping Archie is there when the Tribe pick and its him, he's the guy i really want.

As long as that plays out we're alright, if what Keith Law says transpires we're screwed in terms of getting that high ceiling guy.

Yes Law says its either Jed Bradley or Jungmann

To be honest, I couldn't disagree with Law more. I don't see Jungmann or Bradley. I believe if Archie isn't there, we go either Sonny Gray, Joe Ross, or Francisco Lindor.

Joe Ross has committed to UCLA and their amazing baseball program.. Like his brother, Tyson (who committed to UCal), the expectation is that Joe Ross will be going to college. If this is the case, and it most likely is, cross Joe Ross off the list. W/R to Sonny Gray..@ the # 8 spot, I'm just not a fan of short right handers who's best spot may be as a back of the pen closer a la Paul Shuey.. Francisco Lindor would be an okay choice at # 8 and would fill an organizational need. I am not so certain he would be the BPA. There are too many impact players that would be suitable for the Indians at the # 8 that should be selected over Ross/Gray/Lindor.

BTW...If the Indians truly believe they need a back of the pen guy, Osrich from Oregon may be available when the 67th overall pick comes up...

Falcons115 wrote:hear a lot of Bradley to O's, hopefully its just smoke, and if Rendon is there for them can they really pass him up? im just hoping Archie is there when the Tribe pick and its him, he's the guy i really want.

If your are the Indians and Starling makes it to the 8th pick... Is he your guy? Or do you still take a pitcher like Archie or Gray?

It would depend who's all available. Say Archie is gone, I'd take Starling in a heart beat. If they're both available, which I deem unlikely, but if that's the case, it's a lot tougher of a call. I'd say Starling....