Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

I am betting GM's twin turbo 6, when (if) it is finally ready, will usurp all V8s except in performance cars. Much like Ford is trying to do. Of course Ford isn't quite able to make V8s with broad torque curves like GM does.

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

Originally Posted by Jinx

"...the ATS-V CAN perform better than the M3 without a V8."

This is true. I'm sure GM Powertrain still has engineers who can build on the excellent V6 and the I4 turbocharging knowledgebase and produce a great engine... if they're given the job and given enough time to work through the challenges. But will GM make that investment? Will they stay focused on the task long enough for it to survive the scrutiny that will befall a BMW M3 competitor? This engine has to be good enough to replace the Corvette LS3 V8 on Day One. Anything less is half-hearted. Sure, GM has a lot riding on a turbo V6, if it needs one for full-size pickups, but that's a different target; the 450hp screamer that an M3 competitor needs requires its own brief. GM has just doubled-down on the Corvette V8; does it make business sense to build a direct competitor at the same time? They have limited resources, and global products with far more impact on the next several quarters that need GM Powertrain's best efforts.

I would be incredibly impressed to learn that GM had the vision and depth to make that kind of investment. I just don't think it's likely. It think it's more likely to be a let's-try-something good-enough-for-now more-important-work-is-waiting effort. I think of many well-they-tried and because-the-competition-has-one engines in GM's past. And I say, "prove me wrong."

.Jinx

In reply to what I bolded - that's typical GM-think and I don't blame you for feeling that's the plan. But it really isn't. Cadillac knows how close they are to the 3-Series so they're not going to go easy on it. One of the good points made for the TT V6 while going back and forth refers to bragging rights. If the ATS gets a supercharged V8 and beats the turbocharged I6 M3 - you're going to get a whole lot of "unfair" and "apples to oranges" in media reviews - as well as all over internet forums. The TT V6 going head to head with the TT I6 is where they want to be.

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

^Exactly. Plus Cadillac is not simply trying to build another performance car (there are already plenty of those) They are trying to build a performance brand. And for that, image is everything. Even though image means nothing to those of use who are just interested in performance, we are a small minority.

Besides, if you want an LT1 powered alpha, I almost promise you it is going to be available as a sixth gen Camaro. Which is fine by me. I don't need (or want) cushy leather seats and a bunch of electro-console-gadgets.

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

Image is winning.
I don't see a SC V8 being necessary, a NA V8 will be fine.
That LT1 would be perfect and would beat a stock boost Turbo I6 M3.

I think you guys are kidding yourselves if you think people in this segment would have faith in an unproven TT V6 from GM.
I can't see anybody in their right mind buying a GM TT V6 over the upcomming Turbo I6 M3 or TT V8 C63?

GM knows V8's (and wins racing series with them) so that is what they need to go with in order to properly compete.
Anything less and they may as well stay home.
Should I dare to use Fords current TT V6 SHO as an example of underachievement?
I could not bear to see GM go there.

People trust GM V8's, because they have a proven track record and are economical to maintain/repair and have a long service life.
If you like massive depreciation then a TT V6 is for you.
An LT1 V8 however would continue the history of conquest that the V1 and V2 started.

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac

In reply to what I bolded - that's typical GM-think and I don't blame you for feeling that's the plan. But it really isn't. Cadillac knows how close they are to the 3-Series so they're not going to go easy on it. One of the good points made for the TT V6 while going back and forth refers to bragging rights. If the ATS gets a supercharged V8 and beats the turbocharged I6 M3 - you're going to get a whole lot of "unfair" and "apples to oranges" in media reviews - as well as all over internet forums. The TT V6 going head to head with the TT I6 is where they want to be.

UNFAIR? That's absurd. Who would really have the temerity to make such a sore-loser whinge, and who would pay them any attention? I never once read the word "unfair" in any ZL1 / GT500 discussion.

But where'd you get the idea of a supercharged V8? The LT1 at 450/450 is the right answer.

And "just get a Camaro" really?? Why should GM make anyone choose between their best engine and their best sport sedan?

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

Look. If the ATS-V has a V8, we'll all be happy. If the ATS-V has a TT V6, some of us will be unhappy. Let's see what happens. All I'm saying is that, right now, a V8 is not in the plans for the ATS-V. That could change. And if enough people voice their concern, maybe it will. Good luck...

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

Because the next Camaro is going to be the same platform as the ATS. But it will be cheaper. And have the same level of handling.

If you are TRUE driving enthusiast, then the luxury and refinements of the ATS won't matter to you. Getting the most performance per dollar will.

Oh for Pete's sake, not the "no true Scotsman" malarky. I can't believe a SUPER MODERATOR of the CADILLAC FORUM posted that with a straight face. Where's the wink? Isn't the religion here supposed to be the Standard of the World?

Re: IF the Cadillac ATS-V gets a V8...

I implied nothing of the sort. If you are having an inferiority complex, that's on you.

You are the one who implied the Camaro is less of a car than the ATS. I simply supplied evidence that you are wrong. What you want in a car is not what I want in a car. If you want luxury niceties, that's great. I don't need them, and I don't feel I should have to pay for them to get a great chassis.

The whole point of this argument is why the ATS-V probably won't have a V8, and that's because most of the buyers who will be able to afford one are not interested in pushrod V8s. While the guys most likely to be intersted in a Camaro certainly will be.

I think it's too early to tell if the ATS-V will have a V8 or turbo V6. GM is targeting the 328i with the ATS. If they succeed in taking BMW buyers away from the holy 3-series, then they are certainly going to target the M3 with the ATS-V. And will likely give it all the specifications (including a turbo6) to compete with it.

If the ATS doesn't stack up well against the 328 and 335, then I think there will be little point in having the ATS-V chase the M3, and in that case, the V will be more likely to get the LT1.

This is my theory, and I am sticking to it. If you guys want an LT1 powered ATS-V, then pray the ATS doesn't compete well with the 3-series.