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The "people of the US" rolled over like domestic livestock for the DMCA, the PATRIOT Act, illegal wiretapping in collusion with the telecoms, etc.

Can we say "moooooo"?

You might, especially if the bill don't get much media coverage or if they manage to stick one of the classical arguments, either the ''think of the children'' or the '' war againt terror'' ( but it isn't very likely).

Don't think companies care. They seem to be very short sighted. RAWR PEOPLE NOT PAY US RAWR.

If it's simply a matter of money then they will. Because what Vexx is pointing out is that he, among many other millions of people, I'm sure, went out to buy something he would otherwise never buy because of fansub groups that are considered illegal. What the institutions fail to realize is that these fansub groups are, perhaps unwittingly giving them unprecedented attention and coverage. I'm not saying their concern that "if it's available for free, people won't bother to buy it anymore" is illegitimate, but they're also not considering they're getting a lot more exposure to the outside world than they were before. This is what I'm talking about when I say the internet is the only remaining cheapest and liberal source of information. Take that away from us, and they're taking something away from themselves as well. But I'm more of the opinion that they have other motives and they don't want people to find certain information about companies and the ones who're really controlling them and people in government power.

I hadn't actually heard about COICA until now, unless it was under a different name. Good find.

Now, if only the EU wouldn't bend over all the time to the US, I'm guessing we will something similar here too soon...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

If it's simply a matter of money then they will. Because what Vexx is pointing out is that he, among many other millions of people, I'm sure, went out to buy something he would otherwise never buy because of fansub groups that are considered illegal. What the institutions fail to realize is that these fansub groups are, perhaps unwittingly giving them unprecedented attention and coverage. I'm not saying their concern that "if it's available for free, people won't bother to buy it anymore" is illegitimate, but they're also not considering they're getting a lot more exposure to the outside world than they were before. This is what I'm talking about when I say the internet is the only remaining cheapest and liberal source of information. Take that away from us, and they're taking something away from themselves as well. But I'm more of the opinion that they have other motives and they don't want people to find certain information about companies and the ones who're really controlling them and people in government power.

While money is one of their primary reasons, the other things you are mentioning are also reasons indeed.

The Internet has made the traditional media companies to lose control over their market and people can get culture from everywhere, just not from them. This is really scary for them, and also the government in the same way. Free information that can't be controlled is a huge danger to the powers behind a nation and thus they can't keep the population "under their influence".

Either way, I find this very hard to believe that this bill will ever pass... Unless they just want to make us rage, then they might as well pass the bill and get angry people all over the U.S...

If it does pass I wonder how many people would rally up to protest??

As for me I also like to preview my anime before I buy it if they take that away then people would have to rely on word of mouth or watch anime from legal streaming sites like Funi and Crunchyroll. This could take a blow to the anime/manga market here in the US.

Vexx has nailed it pretty well: This is the result of unfettered rampant corporatism, written by lobbyists and funneled to the bought senators and committee members.

I'm as disgusted about it as anyone. However, I'm actually not quite as concerned as the majority seems to be. Why? Because it might actually have beneficial results which are completely unintended by the corporatists: It might finally sting enough to push a still mostly-lethargic public especially in the US into action, and make them aware what's happening here in the holy name of shareholder value.

Let's assume the worst case for a minute (won't happen, just to think about it): The US takes control of the DNS and blanks out all US-centric domains of public torrent sites. Then the people running these sites will migrate to places in the world where US law doesn't apply. One step more, the government controls the US local ISP DNS services to block the resolution of non-US offender domains. Then tips on how to use foreign uncensored DNS servers will circulate in no time. Now big brother gets really nasty and blocks outward traffic on DNS ports, or blocks traffic to offending IP addresses (hello China!). Then people will start using VPN tunnels to external providers to go from there. But with every escalation, more and more people will get really REALLY pissed and wake up.

The point is: There is essentially no chance to really do what they're intending to do, short of tyranny level censorship. And the more they squeeze, the more counteraction they will see. It's a losing battle for them. The culture of free access is pretty much ingrained in internet users nowadays.

Besides: For example, the European parliament has rejected ACTA-like attempts in the past multiple times, and they are extremely critical of those representatives who currently lead the negotiations. Pirate Parties are spawning already, and the more pressure is brought to bear, they will gain votes, which will protect at least those countries which have proportional representation (did I mention already that the US is screwed in so many ways?).

Nah. The worst they can do is pushing people a bit more underground. At the expense of their image.

Vexx has nailed it pretty well: This is the result of unfettered rampant corporatism, written by lobbyists and funneled to the bought senators and committee members.

I'm as disgusted about it as anyone. However, I'm actually not quite as concerned as the majority seems to be. Why? Because it might actually have beneficial results which are completely unintended by the corporatists: It might finally sting enough to push a still mostly-lethargic public especially in the US into action, and make them aware what's happening here in the holy name of shareholder value.

Let's assume the worst case for a minute (won't happen, just to think about it): The US takes control of the DNS and blanks out all US-centric domains of public torrent sites. Then the people running these sites will migrate to places in the world where US law doesn't apply. One step more, the government controls the US local ISP DNS services to block the resolution of non-US offender domains. Then tips on how to use foreign uncensored DNS servers will circulate in no time. Now big brother gets really nasty and blocks outward traffic on DNS ports, or blocks traffic to offending IP addresses (hello China!). Then people will start using VPN tunnels to external providers to go from there. But with every escalation, more and more people will get really REALLY pissed and wake up.

The point is: There is essentially no chance to really do what they're intending to do, short of tyranny level censorship. And the more they squeeze, the more counteraction they will see. It's a losing battle for them. The culture of free access is pretty much ingrained in internet users nowadays.

Besides: For example, the European parliament has rejected ACTA-like attempts in the past multiple times, and they are extremely critical of those representatives who currently lead the negotiations. Pirate Parties are spawning already, and the more pressure is brought to bear, they will gain votes, which will protect at least those countries which have proportional representation (did I mention already that the US is screwed in so many ways?).

Nah. The worst they can do is pushing people a bit more underground. At the expense of their image.

I thought of something, Congress won't pass it all how much it attained from of the internet. All that I can see that in a few years none of these companies will be obsolete or irrevelent because of not looking forward to see brighter future for them because they wont broaden their advances to technology. Sad but true!

Regardless of the laws, the corporations can also decide to make this sort of a communication standard. Little example, Youtube blocks anything that contains Sony Music's songs when you are connecting to Youtube from Germany - while the content may well be watchable elsewhere.

That means they effectively use DNS/IP information to filter content now. Of'course that is not on the same level as COICA/ACTA yet. But once all ISPs are integrated into large corporations the result will be the same... this process is inevitable in a certain degree. And once everything is regulated to pieces, we will have what television is today, a corporatist money machine that keeps the viewers/participators in general more dull and compliant than educated and informed.

Regardless of the laws, the corporations can also decide to make this sort of a communication standard. Little example, Youtube blocks anything that contains Sony Music's songs when you are connecting to Youtube from Germany - while the content may well be watchable elsewhere.

That means they effectively use DNS/IP information to filter content now. Of'course that is not on the same level as COICA/ACTA yet. But once all ISPs are integrated into large corporations the result will be the same... this process is inevitable in a certain degree. And once everything is regulated to pieces, we will have what television is today, a corporatist money machine that keeps the viewers/participators in general more dull and compliant than educated and informed.

If this happens, I won't do anything to protest but to laugh to everyone to see them fall hard and plus those shareholders want something alot then the same old stuff.

Regardless of the laws, the corporations can also decide to make this sort of a communication standard. Little example, Youtube blocks anything that contains Sony Music's songs when you are connecting to Youtube from Germany - while the content may well be watchable elsewhere.

There's a fundamental difference though: In this case, Youtube themselves decide to make content available or not - which is perfectly fine in my opinion. We were talking about sites like public torrent trackers or Rapidshare/Megaupload that have no interest to do self-censoring.

Quote:

That means they effectively use DNS/IP information to filter content now.

They're called Geotargeting databases. You feed an IP in and get a (presumed) location back.

Quote:

Of'course that is not on the same level as COICA/ACTA yet. But once all ISPs are integrated into large corporations the result will be the same... this process is inevitable in a certain degree.

There's a difference between self-restricting yourself, and having a government agency force policies on you against your will. And in the internet, you'll always have webhosters who will provide net access or servers to you.

There's a fundamental difference though: In this case, Youtube themselves decide to make content available or not - which is perfectly fine in my opinion. We were talking about sites like public torrent trackers or Rapidshare/Megaupload that have no interest to do self-censoring.

You cannot connect to these sites without your ISP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

They're called Geotargeting databases. You feed an IP in and get a (presumed) location back.

Or WHOIS databases, it doesn't matter... fact is, that this information is already used for filtering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

There's a difference between self-restricting yourself, and having a government agency force policies on you against your will. And in the internet, you'll always have webhosters who will provide net access or servers to you.

That reminds me of the suppliers of electric energy in Germany. Technically there is a market where energy could be brokered in fair conditions for the end user. But since the providers became too big and too few, they can dictate the prices. I am not so optimistic that internet cartels can be prevented on the long run. The internet infrastructure is very expensive (especially the last mile - ISP) and therefore a target for big money business.

Considering the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations have all the same rights, but none of the responsibilities, of a normal citizen... I think it's safe to assume they have few discrete bags of money coming in.

I'm sure everyone knows about ACTA, the secretive multi-nation agreement that will affect the internet in a major way(From what I read, it would mean that the federal government and corporations of whatever nation signed the act could get personal information from ISPs without a warrant.