12/07/2007

Today, after three days of discussions, the AMPTP came back to us with a proposal that included a total rejection of our proposal on Internet streaming of December 3.

They are holding to their offer of a $250 fixed residual for unlimited one year streaming after a six-week window of free use. They still insist on the DVD rate for Internet downloads.

They refuse to cover original material made for new media.

This offer was accompanied by an ultimatum: the AMPTP demands we give up several of our proposals, including Fair Market Value (our protection against vertical integration and self-dealing), animation, reality, and, most crucially, any proposal that uses distributor’s gross as a basis for residuals. This would require us to concede most of our Internet proposal as a precondition for continued bargaining. The AMPTP insists we let them do to the Internet what they did to home video.

We received a similar ultimatum through back channels prior to the discussions of November 4. At that time, we were assured that if we took DVD’s off the table, we would get a fair offer on new media issues. That offer never materialized.

We reject the idea of an ultimatum. Although a number of items we have on the table are negotiable, we cannot be forced to bargain with ourselves. The AMPTP has many proposals on the table that are unacceptable to writers, but we have never delivered ultimatums.

As we prepared our counter-offer, at 6:05 p.m., Nick Counter came and said to us, in the mediator’s presence: “We are leaving. When you write us a letter saying you will take all these items off the table, we will reschedule negotiations with you.” Within minutes, the AMPTP had posted a lengthy statement announcing the breakdown of negotiations.

We remain ready and willing to negotiate, no matter how intransigent our bargaining partners are, because the stakes are simply too high. We were prepared to counter their proposal tonight, and when any of them are ready to return to the table, we’re here, ready to make a fair deal.

As a symbol, if nothing else, I hope some representative remains at the bargaining location. Day and Night. Through the Holidays.

Otherwise, it was an empty promise if you saw the other side was walking out anyway.

And how about the picket lines? All through the Holidays? Or no?

Thoroughly disappointed in both sides.

As so many of us foresaw from the get-go, the AMPTP was never going to give you anything in advance of negotiations with SAG and DGA.

WGA is a powerful guild with a great tradition, but you are third on the power scale behind SAG and DGA. That's just the power balance in today's Hollywood. Sorry if your delusions of grandeur misled you.

Your walkout has ruined television.

Features are next.

So go off and make internet productions without those evil studios getting in the way. You don't need'em, right?

But you'll be sure to hire union cameramen and sound guys and scripty and crafty and electric and grips and props and transpo and set deco and locations, right? Cos you're the good guys who are fighting for all of us, right?

Oh, don't worry, I'm equally pissed off at the studios. Im not directing all my anger at WGA.

But this was avoidable. You're going to get the same deal in July that you would have gotten if you had never walked.

I wouldn't trust Bowman's side of the story any more than the producers. I have completely lost faith in the WGA negotiators and before some sap says that I am an AMPTP plant or lackey for saying this I will say that I am part of strong UNION. Good luck brother and sisters, better luck if you can your reps.

I have to say that I get more angry and bitter about the AMPTP every day, they obviously think they can intimidate the WGA and force submission by ruining everyone's Christmas and making the strike drag on. But I hope that all the writers will hang tough, the fans are behind you! We will not fall away, we are in this for as long as it takes!

Fans have been doing letter writing campaigns to advertisers and pressure from the advertisers is starting to help. Also stock prices are dropping, this helps too. The AMPTP is all talk, they do NOT have the power here. The WGA will win if they can just hang in there!

Hey, Transpo Bill. Give us the benefit of your vast negotiating experience and tell us, O tell us what you think we should do. NOT what you think we shouldn't do. Please point out precisely (or even generally) the ways in which our negotiators have screwed up, please. Give us a formula, O wise one, for success. Otherwise, keep your hot air to yourself.

*Heavy sigh*. I'm beginning to wonder if the AMPTP are just actually really bad people. This has been like shaking out the sizable rocks from the other dirt; I see individuals there now, not just a faceless business entity. And those rocks are looking pretty damned ugly. It looks from here like they just want to make sure they hurt you, that that is their primary motive. I have been searching for a motive of merit in their costly fight, some higher principle that is making this well worth it for them - no luck whatsoever. So I have come to wonder, even if they really are truly bad people, isn't this fight ultimately BAD FOR BUSINESS? Their own business!!!

The AMPTP is like George Bush now, the whole country hates them (except short sighted crew peeps and like minded fat cats)!

I'm a fan, a big starry-eyed fan of excellent television and wonderful movies. I am hardly alone in feeling and thinking like this.

Well, it's as clear as it can be, the AMPTP isn't interested in negotiating. Nor are they interested in anything other than busting the union. Since SAG considers the WGA's fight their fight (as they should) as well, perhaps it's time to shut down whatever productions are still going on. A giant walk out, writers, actors, everybody.

A public boycotting of current films coming out, TV, DVD rentals and sales, the whole deal, wouldn't be a bad idea either.

"Hey, Transpo Bill. Give us the benefit of your vast negotiating experience and tell us, O tell us what you think we should do. NOT what you think we shouldn't do. Please point out precisely (or even generally) the ways in which our negotiators have screwed up, please. Give us a formula, O wise one, for success. Otherwise, keep your hot air to yourself."

What not to do:

Use sarcasm. It's not a very effective way to win people over to your position.

I would like to know what to do to organize a boycott of the advertisers on programs of conglomerates supported by the AMPTP. Is there an email campaign, or a place for non-writers, just-fans to go to support the writers?

Hey Jim Bob - my opinion is hot air eh? Take the advice of Local44United and get some REAL LABOR negotiators who know how to get the job done. Sure we all know that you are standing strong but your leadership is clueless at all this IMO (hot air to you JB).

Fans can write letters to the advertisers, buy pencils here at United Hollywood, march on the picket line, and can repeatedly write and call the members of the AMPTP (the owners of the studios and networks) to tell them that you despise them and their lies, and that you support the WGA (they really hate those phone calls! LOL).

Also write to your Congressmen about the fact that the studios and networks are trying to take over print media too, this has to be stopped. There is too much power held by a tiny cadre of billionaires and they think they can get away with anything (and they intent to destroy the unions).

This is a fight worth fighting, it isn't about our favorite TV shows, it is more than that!

This is crap. Do the producers even care about the technical crews and smaller shows who have lost their jobs already just before the holiday season? Do they care about us, the consumers of their shows? And do the writers care about us, the fans? How long do they think we will wait around on some of the newer shows, I am really angry that they decided to strike during the writing season, and not off season when shows were not actually on. A lot of new shows will not get a second chance to come back now, that could have made it. I think frankly the producers need to give up their power trip and in the meantime get someone, anyone writing these shows, and after yesterday they'd do better than Shonda Rimes anyways, but the fact is get the shows back in production and crews back to work and let people earn a living, and then hash this crap out. It isn't like the writers were not getting paid at all, but now we DO have people NOT getting paid at all, and out of jobs. And people out of some very important thursday night abc shows at 8pm cst, and that can't happen.

Can I just throw this out to everyone striking? How angry ARE we really? And dare I say this, but, how serious and impactful is our picketing? Show me a CEO's car, and I will gladly break its windshield. We need to cause traffic jams. We need to throw rocks at the Fox building. We joke about stuff like this but I am so over joking about stuff like this. The press could care less about this strike because there's nothing to report. Well what if we throw tomatoes at the billboards that adorn the Fox entrance? Yes I strike at Fox, and all I need is someone else who picket at Fox to do this, and let's really get this strike going!

Shawn, I wish I were in L.A. to be there this weekend. I have asked my friends to go in my stead. I hope you have a great turn out. A minimum of 100 to 1, out of work crew to striking writers. The public needs to be aware. Maybe this will make them even madder at the moguls. I think the general public would identify more with us than with anybody else in this equation. If they only knew the facts.

wow, flowerbudd.I know that you are dedicated to your show and all, but do you think that maybe striking when the AMPTP has no reason to come to the table would be the best time?seriously?I know that you are upset that you don't get to watch your show, and it's nice that you're concerned for the people who work for the crew, but ...Strikes are most effective when there is leverage.And by effective, I mean, when both parties have a leg to stand on.It takes both legs to hold up a studio, the People who pay, and the People who make.The writers and the directors and BTL and the actors, while they vastly outnumber the AMPTP members, they do not have the weight singly of one of those guys. They HAVE to stand together to balance it all out.Without each other, there really isn't going to be anything on Television, or the big screen.I support the Strike, oh my do I. But my gut tells me that there are machinations going on beyond what the writers guild is dealing with. There has to be.I want for the writers to get what they need, but I also don't want for the needs in front of us to blind us to the needs that are coming. Surely there's something that we're missing?Is there some kind of a contract deal where after a certain amount of time, the AMPTP can fire everyone and start fresh? Or maybe they're looking for some other way of making things go their way? I can't figure it, but those guys they hired are not making 100K a month to miss it.

I'm going to be on the lines next week, and maybe I can get a better understanding from the ground what is going on on the front.Until then, stand fast, brothers and Sisters.

John - you don't really disappoint me, because in the end, I know that none of us would really go this extreme. But the reality is that us remaining so civil has not helped resolve this strike.

Part of a labor stoppage is to threaten the company, and unfortunately, we're not threatening them at all. Movies are going. Midseason scripted shows have been shot. The studios and networks will not start to worry until March or April - and if they lose pilot season and upfronts, they will just continue to produce more episodes of existing shows to get by - not a big problem really.

If you take a look at the Broadway strike, ALL OF BROADWAY came to a complete STOP. That was a real threat. That's why a deal was struck quickly.We are not imposing a seriously impactful threat, and this is why the AMPTP has the upper hand.

Hey Transpo Bill 399 -- The most pathetic part of your post is how completely clueless you are to your own pension, health and welfare benefits and how quickly they will vanish if the writers, directors or actors accept the pennies the AMPTP is offering. Have you no pride or loyalty to your own people? Go ahead and be stupid about your own future, but don't you dare criticize people who are laying their careers on the line for benefits that will enhance your life and others in your union. Do the research Transpo Bill and stop talking out of your ass. You're not tough. You're nothing more than a shameful embarrassment to the decades of union workers who helped get you the salary and benefits that you clearly take for granted today.

"Hey Transpo Bill 399 -- The most pathetic part of your post is how completely clueless you are to your own pension, health and welfare benefits and how quickly they will vanish if the writers, directors or actors accept the pennies the AMPTP is offering. Have you no pride or loyalty to your own people? Go ahead and be stupid about your own future, but don't you dare criticize people who are laying their careers on the line for benefits that will enhance your life and others in your union. Do the research Transpo Bill and stop talking out of your ass. You're not tough. You're nothing more than a shameful embarrassment to the decades of union workers who helped get you the salary and benefits that you clearly take for granted today."

I realize that Sunday's march is seriously more important now than ever, and it being all but two days away, without UnitedHollywood OR NikkiFinke posting about, is an absolute shame.

How much do we really care about our wonderful crew workers who are so aversely affected by this strike? We really need to put pressure on the AMPTP to go back to talking and this is a great opportunity for us to get out there.

Where's Joss Whedon? He should tell his fans to get out there. This thing has to seriously be HUGE, and the fact that UH and NF are not pushing this event really sucks.

the only person here who appears to be talking out of their ass, is Herenow.

At least the writers had a choice whether or not to put their careers on the line for this strike.

Every single one of us Below-the-line folks....had no say in it what-so-ever.

So don't you dare criticize any members of the crew who are brave enough to voice their displeasure with the writers.None of us ever needed or asked for you to enhance our lives...we were doing just fine without you.

But it's only now that you say "we" are all United....I call bullshit foul on this person.

To local44united -- We get it -- this strike and the horrifying situation it has created sucks for everyone. But exactly what don't you understand benefits work in this industry? You won't be happy until the powers that be approach all of you and say: "Sorry - you don't get any more benefits. You don't get any more health insurance. There's just nothing left anymore to protect you or the OTHER UNIONS that allowed for all those benefits to occur in the first place."

Will you please educate yourself and stop being so naive about what is at stake here. You're exactly the person who will be the first to complain and whine a few years from now when the benefits start slipping away. And you'll find someone else to blame then just like you're trying to blame the writer's now. This is everyone's issue. This is everyone's reality staring them in the face. This isn't just about the writer's. Read your own contracts. Until you do, you are doing nobody any good - especially your fellow workers.

I'm glad Nikki Finke called out IATSE's Tom Short working with the AMPTP.

To all the crew members, I'm sorry to all the BTL, I'm sorry you got laid off and it's really stressful but it's not going to get the writer to bend over for the AMPTP and it's not going to get leadership change.

Without writers you don't have a job anyway...and for the reality shows...I see MTV is changing their tune and talking about having 401K because of the strike.

My mother was a union stewart for AFL-CIO close to 30 years and we had to endure strike one was 7 months but we prepared for it and I'm just surprised at the behavior of some union folks.

herenow...you hit it right on the head.OUR contract is not up....OUR contract is not affected by this strike.When OUR contracts are up, we will negotiate for our own H&P.

This strike is only about the writers contract and it only affects the WGA.

You are not the crusaders for the entire industry...just the WGA....and yet you act as if you are doing us a favor.

Here is the secret and I'll say it slowly so that YOU understand...The reason the strike is not settled is because the WGA never had as much leverage as they thought.If the actors or Directors or especially the IA had gone on strike, the entire industry would have shut down completely...forcing the AMPTP's hand.But as it is now...there are still shows in production, there are still features being prepped to shoot. So what reason do they have to settle right now?None, is the answer.

So go ahead and fool yourself that you are doing this for the greater good of the entire industry...but the fact remains, that there are thousands upon thousands of non-WGA people out of work, because the WGA went on strike.

Plain and simple...the AMPTP didn't go on strike...you guys did.(whether they forced your hand or not)And now you are trying to gather all the troops together for a big group hug and a rendition of kumbaya.

It works both ways. I heard someone else say it best. "Without the crew your script is a book at best and recycled paper at worst." To present it as if it is one sided and we ought to be totally greatful to the almighty writers is just disrespectful to all of the others who contribute to the process.

"The reason the strike is not settled is because the WGA never had as much leverage as they thought.If the actors or Directors or especially the IA had gone on strike, the entire industry would have shut down completely...forcing the AMPTP's hand."

I'm saddened to see all the name-calling and just plain meanness going back and forth here.

Look, the plain truth is: the studios are trying to bust the unions. Why else are they choosing to lose tens of millions per week instead of negotiating fairly? If the WGA got EVERYTHING in their proposals, it would cost the studios a grand total of $150 million over 3 years. If that's only $20 million from their "beginning" offer position -- 1/2 of one studio's CEO annual salary, by the way -- what's the hold up? They are starting with the WGA and they want to bust ALL the unions. The holidays are going to suck for all of us, but the future depends on our taking a stand today. And in a business that has pattern bargaining, we are just the first in line. Hate the studios, not your fellow workers.

Shawn wrote, "Where's Joss Whedon? He should tell his fans to get out there. This thing has to seriously be HUGE, and the fact that UH and NF are not pushing this event really sucks."

I guess you didn't hear, but Joss Whedon organized a "Mutant Enemy" day and it took place today. Tons of his old ME writers and actors showed up with fans (many of whom traveled from far and wide) to picket today. I wasn't there, but I heard 400-500 people showed up.

From the studio side of things, it's not just your deal that they have to account for.

Remember? Everything that you get we get, right? But the cost of your deal (as you keep presenting it) doesn't include the cost of our deal.

More importantly to them, anything you get becomes merely a starting point for SAG and DGA negotiations. They're not going to give WGA anything until they know what's coming with the other two guilds.

That's why the smart play was to wait -- you weren't going to get anything now anyway.

We all got our hopes up over the last couple of weeks. The studios needed to get a better feel for your minimum. They got it, and now they are in a better position to negotiate with the other guilds.

The AMPTP are a-holes. They're letting us all go bankrupt rather than negotiate.

But who didn't see this coming? Everyone -- nearly all the crew members I spoke with -- said some variation of this: the strike was either going to last less than two weeks, or more than four months. We were going to be surprised by a quick deal, or it was going to drag on until the other Guilds came aboard (remember that "prefect storm strike" that would've shut down everything right away?).

We got optimistic, and now we're back to bitter and angry again.

I sincerely believe that the best option for mitigating the disaster that this strike has now become is for the guild to start getting next-contract vouchers going.

This is not caving. This is not accepting a crap deal. This is getting back to work until that next deal can be made.

And if the Studios don't sign next-contract vouchers, THEN they are truly sadistic pricks.

But if next-contract vouchers can happen, then everyone can get back to work, knowing that you're going to be covered by whatever deal ends up happening.

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One other thing -- ya gotta either stop poking holes in complaints about your high salary or stop comparing your contract to the high salaries of the studio heads.

It's just plain hypocritical. Either high salaries are justified by market forces or they are not.

I don't really care how much you make compared to how much I make. And I don't care how much studio heads make compared to the size of a labor contract.

To: Local44united & how's this b*%tch? - No one is asking you to be grateful to writers. Not in the least. Writer's are happy to have your support if you choose to offer it. But the unfortunate reality is the writer's contract came up first. If writer's had continued writing and let the producers stockpile hundreds of scripts - knowing full well that the deal they were presenting would be a mirror to what director's and actors could expect (based on all previous contracts) -- come June 2008, AMPTP would have more than enough scripts in both TV and film to drag all of the unions contracts on for a year or more and they would continue to drag on their bad-faith negotiations. I don't believe the WGA felt they had some unrealistic amount of leverage. It wasn't about that and it never has been. I'm not quite sure why you're portraying the WGA as some kind of divisive group. That's never been what this is about. But writer's are not about to roll over - nor would any of the unions when presented with such an abysmal proposal. If the suggestion that the wga is not as powerful as sag, dga or iatse is your argument for the wga to fold - well, that's incredibly selfish on your part.

But here's the thing. I've read enough of your posts to realize who you represent. And i don't believe for one second that either one of you belong to any union. And I'll bet everyone on this site realizes it, too. So stop wasting the site's time and go to an AMPTP site to spew your venom. You've already become a bore...

"But here's the thing. I've read enough of your posts to realize who you represent. And i don't believe for one second that either one of you belong to any union. And I'll bet everyone on this site realizes it, too. So stop wasting the site's time and go to an AMPTP site to spew your venom."

Herenow...the only venom being spewed is from you.You are very quickly becoming a very poor representative of the WGA and their views.

As a matter of fact, I have 26 years in my union...what about you?

Oh Im sorry, I forgot who Im talking to.Your probably to high up on your high horse to hear what any of us lowly crew members have to say.

So, you might as well just save the one-sided opinion....nobody is listening to you anymore.

Hang in there guys! As a fan of good writing and good writers, I am cheering for you. You deserve a better deal on DVD sales and you shouldn't back down from the what was promised to you. Fight for that fair deal for online sales.

Hey herenow - I belong to a UNION and am 3rd generation in it though I am the first in 399, the TEAMSTERS. And I believe that Local44United is a member of local 44. You however are part of a GUILD or so you say, that has shut down this business and asked for our support though you shit on us when we struck. Solidarity my ass.

Here's a pressing question:Did it ever occur to you that your commentary is serving no purpose other than doing the AMPTP a favor? Regardless of whether you're right or wrong, why continue to complain about something that's already done and over with? None of what you've been saying for the past few weeks has accomplished anything to resolve this strike. We already know where you stand on whether or not the strike should have happened happened, but it did happen; so that means it's time to switch gears now, no?

I have to work with the writer;s bland scripts,(just watched a CSI MIAMI marathon.....sophomiric writing!!!!!!)I am a dolly grip and i love what i do,even though I get shafted everyday by the producers.Pleaase explain to me why I should give a fuck about reality tv or animation?..Can't remember my last call for The Simpsons or The Family Guy!!!!!!I work hard for my living,and in a practical sense,the damn writers are always in the way,on their cells or justifying their predictable bullshit,and when i asxk them,politely to move,to take my dolly to the next set,they look at me as if I was a sqirrel in their nut supply.............They are not a real union,and could care less about the real workers/victims of this selfish strike......I asupport unions,but only tghose of the working man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wow such a bad typer.....but at least that's a finger co-ordination thing..................Word to the writers.................this strike goes into the Spring............who do you think crew members will hate most?................You pamopered fools who,clog up Video Village,or the Producers who sign our paychecks?..................You don't even acknowledge us on the set,yet want our support?...........Dream on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not pampered. I'm not even a guilded writer. I wrote a screenplay and got caught up in all this. In the world of screenplays, most writers are rarely if ever even invited on-set from what I understand. I'm sure they'd be there if they could.

If anything the pampered writers you abhor are doing this for people like me; the newcomers who are looking to shake things up a bit, and need some direction in their lives.

Whether the WGA shoulda, coulda, woulda; once they did, if you are such strong union supporters you should do what some of us Teamsters are doing: go carry picket signs and bring lots of your buddies to help end this. OUR union sanctioned this strike. And they asked the members first. Were you there? I was. If you didn't go, don't bitch.

The reason that Rally that lumps the WGA in the same box with the AMPTP is not being announced is that it does lump both sides together and that's just wrong - especially from UNION members.

As soon as the WGA gets the residuals, our negotiators will be able to go in and get our share to secure our pension and health plans. That should be very important to you, Bill. Was it 26 years? How would you like to retire just in time to be told there is no retirement for you because we did not get new media when we could and residuals fund 55%?

I know this is hard. It's frustrating and frightening to all of us; but we're UNION, act like it please.

"This offer was accompanied by an ultimatum: the AMPTP demands we give up several of our proposals, including Fair Market Value (our protection against vertical integration and self-dealing)"

Provision is at http://www.wga.org/contract_07/W12a.pdf if you want to read it for yourselves

Back in the day in my Business Organizations class in law school, we learned that corporate directors and officers are not allowed to engage in self-dealing transactions (the principle behind this is to protect *shareholders* and their investments as they are the people to whom the 'punctillio of honesty' is owed). With the AMPTP saying no to something that they can't do anyway (as written out in your Fair Market Value provision) strongly suggests to me that it is in fact time for some shareholder derivative lawsuits so that the shareholders can in fact figure out just what the heck is going on with their investments.

I'm still amazed at all this. It's *television*. It's *movies*. The post-broadcast shows already cost too much on media and digitally. Stars already make too much money. Studios already make too much money. I doubt that can be said about the writers and crew, tho.

WGA made a bad deal during pre-DVD days. I can appreciate trying to make up for it, but - apart from the loss of other industry-related jobs - what is the consumer really losing?

Lack of new writer-driven TV - and soon - movies should have the positive effect of folks going back to spending more time with their families, reading books or just getting out more. I do not take any joy in the hardship that this brings to the writers and production crew members, however.

Sadly, this looks like it's going to end one of two ways: the US entertainment industry taking a huge, permanent hit or tons of new, non-union writers emerging on the scene (lets face it, does it take that much talent to write dialog for shows like the new "Bionic Woman"?)

Unless the WGA can manage to persuade enough other entities to support their cause, I suspect this will soon become a very damaging, but short blip.

I read a great many of these comments, but stopped when I realized that the intent of at least some of the posters was to piss off & divide writers and strike supporters, and (using official AMPTP talking point #2) attack and spread mistrust of the WGA negotiators. Feh, don't need to read that.

As neither a WGA member, industry employee nor a studio astroturfer, but a fan working hard to support this strike via fans4writers.com and other venues, I can say that with assurance that support for the writers is actually growing among fans & the general public after each bullshit move by the AMPTP. The majority of fans - being employees in their own rights in numerous industries - are increasingly savvy about management bullying and strike-breaking tactics.

I'd have to say that in terms of PR, at the very least, the "new PR firm" isn't earning their money - fewer people each day are buying it. I'd suggest the AMPTP save their money, fire the firm, and put the cash they save towards actually paying the writers what they're due.

I'm either making completely new comments (time to start seriously looking at next-contract vouchers), or I'm responding to someone else's specific post.

Of course I reiterate my point of view, that's kinda necessary for a little thing called context. Just because you spend every waking minute on these boards doesn't mean every reader does. The first-time reader should know where I come from (ya know, "support the writers, not the strike," or as you hear it, "blah blah blah blah.")

Your frustration with well-thought out argument leads me to believe that you know I'm right, or at least that I make some very solid points.

We gotta grab a drink when this is all over, my man...

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Evan -

a next-contract voucher means that whatever the next contract is will be retro-actively applied to the work being done now.

You get to work, I get to work. You get paid now, then you get another check to square your pay with the new contract once it's all signed.

And you have the luxury of holding out longer at the negotiating table because your members aren't hurting for work.

And we don't destroy Hollywood in the process.

So, umm, how is this caving?

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Herenow,

You sound like you wish this site was a tiny fishbowl of people with identical points of view building each other up.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a spy or a troll or a ninja, or whatever it is you think.

I'm a below-the-line union employee who is now out of work. My posts speak for themselves. If you insist on interpreting them as pro-AMPTP there's not a lot I can do to change your mind. I think most level-headed readers, though, can appreciate that I am who I say I am and take at face value that my thoughts are my own.

It's caving because you're going back to produce material. You're doing what they want you to do while they continue to do nothing you want them to do. Why grant anything to the writers if they're going to keep on working for you regardless?

The worst thing we can do right now is try to figure out what the other side wants and try to meet in the middle. We need to stick to our guns or better, turn up the heat. Let's put DVD residuals back in our proposals and raise the dollar value of all our demands another 20 percent.

I'm in my 19th year as a Teamster and after reading some of the posts from a few of these Below the line folks, I'm ashamed. It's like you have some kind of inferiority complex going on. The writer's I have worked with over the years have been very supportive of me and all my other BTL workers - and I've worked on hundreds of TV, film, commercial productions, etc. Sure there's an occasional egotistical writer you bump into -- it happens. And you want to nail the guy. But the same can be said for our group - all of us know this. Same with actors. And directors. There will always be nasty, hateful people out there. But the majority of writers are not like this at all.

So why are individuals like BTL Guy, Bill, How's this b*%tch?, local44united, frustrated grip, etc. beating up on the writer's simply because they are fighting for a fair proposal? Have you seen their proposal? It's incredibly fair. And very straight forward. I can appreciate you not being happy about this strike, but why the angry and malicious accusations? Of course you can disagree and have another opinion, but you keep saying the same thing like some broken record. I'm sitting here with 3 other crew members and all of us have just read the postings on here and we are shaking our heads at your odd behavior. Real union members don't behave like this.

Teamster Walking The Union Walk got it right. Read his post - he's level-headed, understands what the stakes are (as opposed to the post from someone who said this is ONLY the writer's issue). I'm with him - stop your bitching. You've made your points (over and over and over.) You're angry you're out of work. You're angry there's a strike. I'm guessing you're angry a lot in your life. But do you think you can stop attacking people now? That would be great. Everyone heard your thoughts and appreciates them. There's a lot of commercials being done right now. Industrials. Films. Start making some phone calls and putting some of that energy into getting a job - not complaining about not having one.

Glickla: where did you get your $150 million over 3 years figure from? I don't trust the WGA figures any more than I do the AMPTP ones, especially without some idea of how they're calculated.

(It's not like anyone's going to call them on it; I mean, did you see how the blogs and blog commenters misrepresented Johnathan Handel's back-of-the-envelope calculations as being for the whole package when they were obviously only for Internet and DVD royalties? Most of the stuff out there isn't exactly unbiased.)

Aside from Verrone and Young -- who take on criticism when they take on leadership roles -- I haven't attacked anyone on this board.

I've poked at a couple of folks who dinged me first. But there's no name calling going on here.

When you claim that we're anti-union to be against this strike, you sound just like someone saying "you're anti-patriotic if you're against the war."

I can be pro-union AND disagree with this particular strike. I can be pro-writer AND against this particular strike.

You accuse me and others of repeating the same thing over and over, but we have to when we are misrepresented in a subsequent post. We have to clarify our position or watch it get wiped out by a half-truth.

This is a complicated situation and a complicated time. If you force me to boil my position down to black or white, then I'd be on the side of the writers and the strike. I'm not pro-AMPTP.

But stop telling me that I'm anti-union just because I don't blindly follow where others want to lead me, especially when I disagree with what the leaders are doing; especially when MY union leadership disagrees with what their leaders are doing; and especially when I didn't ask to be led anywhere.

btl - Sorry man - but you say the same ole same ole. You just do. And you don't even realize it. Your cynical banter about the writers and the wga is pretty thick. And I already said you were entitled to your opinions so nobody's suggesting you can't have them. But to keep coming back when someone disagrees with you when your points already been made and your response never makes it any clearer -- come on! Have a fellow union member read your posts for you - right in front of you. You might be mightily surprised what their response it to them.

Anyone else get the impression that BTL is working for "the man"? Not just the man but the AMPTP's new PR team. If the WGA hadn't done exactly everything they've done thus far, there wouldn't be such urgency in helping the SAG or DGA.

And Jimmy M, I'm pretty sure that the WGA will NOT remove the no-strike. Even if it were the only way to show the public that AMPTP is lying about who walked out.

The sad truth is that this day was coming. New media is taking over, and soon there will be NO live TV. Everything will be on demand. WGA just shed light on it, so it didn't happen quietly. And so they didn't get pooch-screwed in the process. But it looks like AMPTP had a plan all along, and that plan didn't include the WGA. They're cutting the heart and soul out of entertainment. And what's going to happen?

People will flock elsewhere.

Sports, for instance. The l7.5 million viewers that watched the Patriots-Ravens game last Monday on ESPN, broke the previous record held by Disney for the August showing of High School Musical 2.

Or heaven forbid, we'll start reading books and spending time with each other again.

At the very least, we already have plenty of DVDs to keep us going for at least a decade.

I personally refuse to watch TV, now. Until WGA comes out with at least what they originally asked for, I will download illegally until my heart's content. I recommend that everyone else do the same.

Good luck, WGA.

It's turning into David and Goliath. The only problem is that America's masses are too stupid to see what's going on, and the television won't tell them about it.

"Anyone else get the impression that BTL is working for "the man"? Not just the man but the AMPTP's new PR team"

More paranoia! Another completely unfounded accusation. How unscientific of you to come to this conclusion based upon absolutely no evidence. You would have to be completely stupid to think that out of the thousands of people out of work none of them would find their way here. Besides, BTLguy was posting here before the new PR team came into the picture. God, I hope the negotiating team is more logical!

I would also like to add that many of the people posting here aren't in the WGA or ANY guild at all. There are not directly affected in any way. If they can speak their minds, BTL can certainly speak his.

I do honestly believe that the AMPTP sat at the negotiating table just so they could pull away and start this big "The Writers Walked Away Again" media blitz. And I'm glad it's backfired.

Continue to hold their feet to the fire and lets start getting the word out to shareholders, cause something is definitely rotten here.

My response to the below-the-line workers here is to continue to inform yourself about how all these Guilds and unions are connected. Yes, the WGA could have waited until the DGA and SAG contracts were up but they didn't. It's over. Soon the other contracts will be up and the AMPTP will eventually pay up but it's their asses if they choose to wait and continue to lose money.

I have no interest in arguing with you. I do, however, want to say that I AM affected directly. Everyone in the media business is affected. I talk on the radio, and let me tell you, there isn't a whole lot to talk about other than Britney's latest antics, and the strike. And my boss keeps telling me not to talk about the strike because it doesn't matter to the average listener. Imagine my anger at that.

I'm here to support everyone who is negatively affected by the AMPTPigs. I'm sorry if you feel the need to attack me.

And while I am not a current member of WGA, there is a good possibility that I will be in the future. Hence my interest in what's going on now.

Here's a silly question for you: Have you at least added to the number of people striking publicly, by walking the line at least an hour a day?

Writers do everything perfect. We are lucky to have them to look after us. Thank goodness they didn't wait to strike. They know what is best for all of us. They are very good looking and have bodies that won't quit. They are incredible lovers. The males are well endowed. They are way undervalued. They should all be knighted. Their brains are superior to the brains of all others. They are faster than lightning. Unbelievable cooks. Their hair is thick and wavy. They are icons of style. They have perfect teeth. They have better breath. They have no bad ideas. Their ideas are all gold. The have the strongest work ethic of anybody. They work more than all others. They are far more creative than anyone else on the planet. Most of what you see in the movies and on television was created by them alone.

Never criticize a writer for anything big or small. That would be ridiculous!

Just look at the coments,that came from Europe and their support for u guys. Their FIGHT is Our fight. Another one" They are fighting for our beter Future" ,refering to Guild . Evrything u put on paper is like giving birth to a child ,its your idea ,your invention dont SeLL OUT ,u are the foundation to the house ,they cant build the house without U. Script is foundation.Dont crawl in the mud stand up and walk with pride ,u deserv to be payed for your idea ,your invention ,your patent.Makes me sick to see u standing alone ,this strike is no diffrent than gm strike or any other strike its about human rights and Respect for one Labor ,people dont see that , Solidarity is not something we often see in USA,sad but true.Look at the feedback u got from Europe ,that say it all.

This sounds alot like George W. Bush to Henry Callahan regarding the Iraq war. "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"

The statement, "you're either with us, or against us", can sometimes be interpreted as a false dilemma, which is an informal fallacy. The phrase is commonly used in order to polarize situations and force the audience to either become allies or to accept the consequences as being deemed an enemy.

Just look at the coments,that came from Europe and their support for u guys. Their FIGHT is Our fight. Another one" They are fighting for our beter Future" ,refering to Guild . Evrything u put on paper is like giving birth to a child ,its your idea ,your invention dont SeLL OUT ,u are the foundation to the house ,they cant build the house without U. Script is foundation.Dont crawl in the mud stand up and walk with pride ,u deserv to be payed for your idea ,your invention ,your patent.Makes me sick to see u standing alone ,this strike is no diffrent than gm strike or any other strike its about human rights and Respect for one Labor ,people dont see that , Solidarity is not something we often see in USA,sad but true.Look at the feedback u got from Europe ,that say it all.OBVIOUS u have no class ,u are rude and u use profanity. All i have to say to writers is dont crawl in the mud ,u deserv better .

To btl Guy et al: Get ready for a rant. Maybe the reason why people on here might think you and one or more of your defeatist and divisive comment posting compadres are plants for the AMPTP might have something to do with your heavy and repetitive use of AMPTP style rhetoric and union busting talking points. For example, your comparison of this conflict with Bush’s Iraq war rhetoric as a defense for your anti-WGA strike position: "you're anti-patriotic[union] if you're against the war[strike]." So, wait, let me get this straight, you're comparing the WGA standing up to the behemoth congloms with the USA preemptively invading a defenseless but oil rich nation?? Remember when you took the SATs? It would look something like this: USA : Iraq :: WGA : AMPTP. That kind of sneaky yet faulty analogizing is exactly how anyone familiar with the AMPTP would expect a slimy plant for the AMPTP to comment! What’s that? You actually support the writers and are against the AMPTP but you just don’t think the writers or any other union can win so why don’t we all just bohica and get back to work? Explain how you can be against the AMPTP and at the same time advocate on their behalf. Oh that’s right you’re just a btl guy who lost his job so now you’ve decided to go on a blogging crusade (dividedhollywood.com!?!? HAHAHA! Now it’s official!) to end this horrible, horrible WRITERS strike which only the writers can end by being a little more reasonable. Now explain how you can be for the writers and advocate undermining them. Next up: How about this little strikebreaking gem: "Get next-contract vouchers for as many writers as possible and get everyone back to work." Wow, with your intimate knowledge of industry labor relations I'm shocked that you didn't mention that CBS writers were working in this fashion since 2005. 2 years of working under extension really worked out for them, huh? So much for “your” voucher plan. What’s next? Lemme guess, you suggest that the membership go ficore, or would that just be too obvious? The saddest thing would be if you WEREN’T a plant for the AMPTP. If you’re merely just a thoughtful, unwily victim of conglomerate oppression and propaganda I cry and pray for you and your family and your children’s future and the future of the entertainment industry and the future of organized labor in the world at large because it would mean that world wide management’s got the jump on everyone with their savvy mind control technology. If you’re any kind of real representative of oppressed workers then we’re all already doomed. Solidarity is our only hope.

I was really suprised to see the feedback they got from all over the Europe, to hear them say “Your fight is our fight” refering off course to GUILD , was trully refreshing ,but again Europeans are known for Solidarity.Makes me sad to see Writers standing alone almoust,or GM workers ,this is same thing its about human rights and respect for one labor and hard work,this is no diffrent than any other strike.Same issues ,healthcare,pension.pay etc.When u standing there in cold ,angry and frustrated and hurt ,think about the words and coments of those European writers who walked off their jobs to support u across the Ocean,stay strong ,stand up and endure.Dont settle for nothing or less than what belongs to u.We are not any better than Writers,and those who think that they cant be in same shoes as writers now are fools.

Get a life! Better yet try going out and getting a real job with real problems and realistic wages. This strike is a prime example of why unions hurt more than help. You have way too much power. So you can write so what. Big Deal. You don't save lives or run into burning buildings like firemen and police officers and while they are part of a union in many cities they are legally not allowed to strike. You don't teach and more than half of the time can barely bring quality entertainment to us the viewers. As far as I'm concerned I think Hollywood should just shut down, play reruns of all the best shows of the past 50 years and let you guys with your liberal arts and english lit degrees see how far you can get in the real world. I hear McDonalds is hiring!

Go back to work greedy slobs. If anyone should get more mony for the streaming content it is the technologists. The web developers and system administrators that manages the equipment that provide these services. Losers.

Brilliant! Captain melodramatic. I'm sure the writers make no money what so ever for their scripts. This is the kind of liberal greedy thinking that is dragging this country down the drain. Everybody wants it all. And, That's fine you can want it all but guess what? You can't have it all because then you leave nothing for everyone else. Greedy scumbag slob. Curl up with your art history degree and sleep well at night. This is a free market economy. When I felt as though I was not paid adequetly in the past I would walk into my boss' office and ask for a raise or better work condtions. I didn't need the assistance of a union or (for the love of god) a guild to do my asking for me. And if I didn't get what I wanted (financial or otherwise) I went elswhere. I guarantee that there isn't one writer involved in this strike that makes less anually than I do and I do well. Well enough that I am the sole provider in my family ( a rarity these days) giving my wife the ability to stay home with our 2 kids and acutally raise them instead of send them off to some daycare for someone else to raise. My children will grow up with values. The will know and understand the importance of hard work and education. Which is more than I can say for any of the writers and for that matter the acters too. It is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in this country that people who live and work in a land of make believe get paid so much and have nerve to complain when they feel as though they're being short changed. Not one of them is going hungry. Not one of their children goes without. None of them knows what real work and suffering is. I defy any of them or you for that matter to walk in my shoes for a week. You couldn't do it so stop whining and get back to work. Just to be clear. This has absolutly nothing to do with me missing my favorite TV shows (I'd rather and usually do read). I'm just tired of seeing and hearing about this strike. It's not like any of these writers are being forced to work in mines for 15 cents a day. That was back when unions were needed and served a purpose now they're more corrupt and more powerful than most major companies. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

enough is enough with all this crap! This fighting and backstabiing has got to stop, I am a loyal tv viewer , and all this is not doing any side any good, get back to talking , no one wants a strike, no one wants to suffer through not getting paid to work, get back to talking. its not fair to any side or the loyal viewers who actually want to watch shows with quality writing and producing in them, get off your butts and get to talking.

E-Mac: I'm sure songwriters are also paid upfront for the rights to publish their songs. Guess what? They still get royalties.

Residuals are essentially royalties under a different name. There's slightly weaker justification for them when the writing is assigned, but in the case of a spec script it is 100% secured by US and international copyright laws. The writer gains certain rights when he or she does so; one of which is to be paid a small amount every time the work is reused and revenues are generated.

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