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T O P I C R E V I E W

cosmos-walter

This cover was sold as being flown on board Foton-9 by Goede company from Aschaffenburg, Germany. Unfortunately they did not answer my request for further information. Do you think, it actually flew on this mission?

Moreover, I am looking for information on covers flown on other unmanned space projects. Is anybody of you aware of any proof they actually flew into space (this means: higher than 100 km according to FIA rules) or surrounded earth, respectively?

Any thoughts and information are welcome.

eurospace

The Chinese flew quite a few covers on their unmanned return capsules over the years. Usually impeccably documented with a notarial certificate.

Tom

If I remember correctly, weren't covers flown on ATV-3 and returned to earth on Dragon recently?

cosmos-walter

Russian re-entering scientific satellite Foton-9 was launched from Cosmodrome Plesetsk on 6/14/1994. Dealer Michael Goede from Aschaffenburg, Germany sold covers as being flown with Foton-9. Although Plesetsk is in the northern part of Russia, they have Kasakh stamps. Are these covers actually flown into space?

Jim Behling

quote:Originally posted by cosmos-walter:Is anybody of you aware of any proof they actually flew into space (this means: higher than 100 km according to FIA rules) or surrounded earth, respectively?

Why would this be any different than a manned mission? What makes a COA from a manned mission any more valid than one from a unmanned mission?

cosmos-walter

Space Mail from manned missions is well explored.

We know the covers, astronauts took to the Moon with Apollo missions. Beginning with Apollo 17 it has been forbidden to astronauts to take covers with Apollo or space shuttles into space.

Beginning with Salyut-6 cosmonauts have postmarks and other cachets on board space stations. These cancellation allow that space mail can be examined by specialized stamp experts. Their expertise is even more reliable than a COA issued by an involved cosmonaut, who might overlook a good fake. Chinese space mail has a notary's dry seal and is accompanied by a certificate issued by this notary.

There are much more unmanned than manned space missions. Most likely some of them carried mail without me being aware of this.

Fakes of both manned and unmanned space mail exist. If I have a question regarding the authenticity of manned space mail, I easily can asked an involved cosmonaut. As for unmanned project it usually is much more difficult to find out somebody who has the knowledge and freely discusses this matter with an unknown collector from Austria.

Jim Behling

quote:Originally posted by cosmos-walter: These cancellation allow that space mail

So what makes cancelled mail more valuable than uncancelled if they both flew in space? Also, what says that the cancellation was done in space?

cosmos-walter

For stamp collectors an official postmark issued by Soviet, Russian, US or French postal service significantly increases the value of a space mail cover.

Cancellation devices which were used on board a space station only are a better prove that the item was on board than every COA.

Moreover, some cosmonauts photograph their mail floating in ISS.

Jim Behling

quote:Originally posted by cosmos-walter:For stamp collectors an official postmark issued by Soviet, Russian, US or French postal service significantly increases the value of a space mail cover.

Which is meaningless when it comes to proof of flight.

quote:Originally posted by cosmos-walter:Cancellation devices which were used on board a space station only are a better prove that the item was on board than every COA.

That doesn't prove they were flown. They can be cancelled pre or post flight.

Robert Pearlman

The Soviet Union, and now the Russian Federation, have established post offices on the space stations that their cosmonauts have staffed and occupied, to the point of creating unique cancellation devices (ink stampers) that are only used in space. Officially, the postmark by definition proves the item was in space.

It's because of that that the cancellation has been used on many more items than just mail. Patches, books, and even sneakers have been marked with the stamp in space to signify that they have flown.

fimych

Regarding Foton-9, although I have not found any notice of the flown covers in the Russian sources, but this was in 1994 (dark years for Russia) and most satellites were sponsored by European agencies. So, in theory they could arrange a package of covers in their respective payload, the only issue is money. It is exactly, how it is done today. But one strange thing, they did not invent special cancellation for this project (unlike Resurs 500). But we can only guess.

Another option (more likely) - these covers were present in Plesetsk during the launch and have not gone to space. The same story occurs with many covers, cancelled on Baykonur for example with Soyuz, Salut, MIR, ISS cancellations, but do not have any board stamp. Many are sold as "flown in space" with great stories from the dealers.

Example of real ISS vs. Baykonur cover. Both having "55 years of Sputnik, ISS, 10100" – cancellation and both sold by dealers as "flown."

cosmos-walter

In the meantime I contacted Kaiser-Threde, a company involved in space. They sent me a press information stating among other details that stamps, coins and phone cards were flown with Foton-9. Thus I believe, only the stamps were flown. The postmark was added three months after landing.

fimych

So in this case, this are just commemorative covers.

cosmos-walter

Most likely. Unfortunately neither Goede company nor Kaiser-Threde could remember (or find any documents), whether only the stamps or covers with stamps on them were flown.