Defending against unruly mob/civil unrest

This is a discussion on Defending against unruly mob/civil unrest within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guantes
I think that the hungry part relates to a more longer term event than it sounds like you are envisioning. TEOTWAWKI ...

But if that wasn't really an option for us for some reason, I'd put my kids up on the second floor with my 13 year-old daughter having a handgun and told to shoot anyone coming up the steps - which are immediately accessible thru the front door. I'd shoot warning shots at anyone just walking up the street, but would outright shoot anyone who was harming one of my neighbors or setting fire to houses - provided I could see them and had a clear field of fire. Wife would watch my back as best she could.

Being "upstairs" could end up being a trap if the mob decided to firebomb the house. Unfortunately, you may not be able to stop them. There're more avenues of escape on the lower level. (Unless you have 2nd-floor escape plans.)

Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.Lighten up and enjoy life because:Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

Something else to think about... If you have no choice but to hunker down and dig in with your neighbors...have your neighbors collect the trash(particularly empty cans and bottles) and spread it around the neighborhood in the ingress areas.

Trash can be your friend. It just may give you a heads up in the after hours time frames when folks are trying to get into the secured areas at night. They might not necessarily see the cans and bottles and all the ruckus will clue you in to positions. Just a thought.

I had acquaintances around the NOLA area that used this successfully during the Katrina aftermath. They and their neighbors pooled their empty soda and beer cans and spread them around the neighborhood. They rotated on/off watch during the nights and the cans clued them in to folks trying to get inside their unofficial perimeter. If you don't have NV gear, it can work.

while bugging out is always an option my question would be where you bugging out to? There will be mobs on the street just as sure as there will be mobs in the neighborhood. A house is a better cover then a car and if TSHTF you should be organizing your neighbors. Strength in numbers. Hang signs everywhere. YOU LOOT, WE SHOOT. Patrol the subdivision with your armed neighbors and yes even protect the liberals who will no doubt want to take your guns away even more after the law kicks back in being they were so scared they might get shot by looters. I guess they would rather be beaten to death with a pipe or bat. Go figure.

i think its a good idea to be prepared for the worst case scenario. but, its also good to be realistic.

the likelihood of an organized mob attacking a dwelling where the owner is known to be heavily armed is very remote. criminals don't like risk. they pick the lowest apple on the tree. if your house, or even your neighborhood is demonstrably defended, the mob will almost certainly move on. the scenario where you have 10 people all trying to gain entry to your house while you are shooting at them is unlikely. why risk the danger of getting shot by the ak wielding homeowner, when there are likely dozens of softer targets nearby? i think that if a mob saw you on your porch, or in your yard, armed with a rifle, shotgun and pistol, they would beat feet. most likely, you wouldn't even have to fire a shot.

the roof is a great tactical position, but its also easily visible to law enforcement aircraft. katrina showed us how law enforcement handled armed citizens. i think you are unnecessarily advertising your arsenal to the one mob you should really be concerned about, the military and police.

Thank god I dont live in a city. but if a mob was ever crazy enough to venture out into rural AZ I am sure the saiga-12 monster with a couple 20 round drums would do the trick because if there are armed mobs out here, society has completely collapsed.

Ah! OK, duh... I prolly shoulda thunked on that one some more, neh...?

Thanks for spelling it out for me, fellas!

Originally Posted by OldVet

Being "upstairs" could end up being a trap if the mob decided to firebomb the house. Unfortunately, you may not be able to stop them. There're more avenues of escape on the lower level. (Unless you have 2nd-floor escape plans.)

Right, but I don't have too many options beyond just bugging-the-frak-out. There are too many ground floor windows for me to realistically defend for very long at all, particularly against a very large group intent on getting in with just my wife to back me up. Now, if there were at least four adults in the house, that'd be a different story.

Our bug-out plan is to head to the base for possible staying in billeting for the duration. That is, if it appears to be a short-term thing, like the RK Riots.

Or if the situation is so absolutely FUBAR'd, with the collapse of pretty much all government - I'm talking federal, state and local - , we head up to my folks' home in SW Missouri. Mom & Dad have several acres, plus we have a number of family members living w/in just a few miles of each other there now whom each have plenty of extra acerage for crops, farm critters and some hunting.

The rules of justification would still apply in times of civil unrest. I would think.

My philosophy is, just because there is a break down of law, that doesn't give me the right to break the law".

But, I'd do whatever it took to protect my family and me, just as any other time.

This. ^^

Lawlessness and civil unrest occurs daily/nightly at some place in the US of A.
Just because the event is localized and very likely temporary does not change anything at all about the rules of the game as related to defense of self AND use of lethal force.

As to mobs and civil unrest, the best defense is a very good offense...And that means being & staying aware of your surroundings and at the sense of impending trouble you evac without delay.

Ask anyone who has ever been in a bar or night club where a major brawl or gunfight has broken out (I have many times toward both including being caught in crossfire) or at a city/town where a demonstration goes from being peaceful to police response to monitor to riot (been there too).
The best and wisest thing of all is to not be there to start when the balloon goes up. But if you do happen to be there then well stay aware and note that sparks very often are a predecessor to fire & explosion.

I'd posted the following real world example at a different gunfu forum where I have long been a moderator and content provider:

Posted: 03-27-2007, 01:30 PM

As reported by CBS11TV.com:

Exclusive: Teens Pelt Driver With Bricks, Stones
Woman Says She Only Tried To Stop A Fight Between Them

Jay Gormley
Reporting

(CBS 11 News) DALLAS A woman trying to break up a fight says she was attacked in broad daylight. The woman's truck was pelted with bricks and stones by nearly 50 teenagers in an upscale neighborhood in Dallas. The victim says it was caught on video, but the tape has yet to surface.

According to a police report, the teenagers used stones and bricks from a nearby construction site. The victim says she’s upset that no arrests have been made.

Classes at North Dallas High School in uptown had just let out when Kris Martin was approaching the intersection of Travis and Haskell.

I saw probably 50 kids, and there was absolutely no way that anybody could get through this intersection because they were fighting in a group," said Martin. "Plus, they were video taping it from the curbs. I mean they were everywhere."

Attempting to put a stop to it, she inched closer. "And I just started honking, and I thought if I lay on this horn enough, they'll stop," she said.

But the teenagers were defiant, and instead of running, they attacked.

"So as they approached, they started throwing bricks at my windshield. I dialed 911," she said. "I knew it was a bad situation."

All of this took place in front of a construction site in an up-scale neighborhood. At least a half-dozen workers witnessed the attack.

"They started throwing rocks at her," said Luis Soria who witnessed the attack. "They were big rocks, baseball size rocks."

The dents and scratches are quite apparent on Martin's truck, and she's certain her attackers are students at nearby North Dallas High.

"These punks are not going to take over this neighborhood," Martin said.

That's why Martin sent a letter to the Dallas Independent School District demanding action.

"If somebody had a gun, or if a brick had gone through my windshield, then I would have lost more than I would have gained," Martin said.

My neighbor is armed and ready. Other folks on the street not so much. We would do what we could to dissuade rioters/looters from kicking doors. If they kick my door, they will be shot. Simple enough. Once they do that they have crossed the line and there is no doubt what I am lawfully allowed to do. Missouri does have the castle doctrine. If they remain on the street that is a whold different matter.

If one of my unarmed neighbors is in danger of death or serious physical injury, state statute gives me the authority to intervene with whatever force is necessary to end the attack.

If I were to go up on the roof, I would bring a hose up with me and keep my weapons under wraps until needed. Then it would just look like you were protecting you house from fire. If observed while actively engaged in defending my house, so much the better. If LE dispatched people, they would have to disperse the mob to get to my house, end of problem.

Mention was made of a mob being disuaded by the view of armed people in front of their house.

That is possible, but from past experience, I would not count on it. The behavior of a mob, often defies rational thought and often will not respond until sufficient force is brought to bear to jolt them out of the mob mentality.

Living in Utah, and in a rural area, I am not worried that the citizens there are going to riot, loot and burn down houses. Many here have food and water stored and are prepared for an emergency.

We would more likely face a threat from people coming from California than from within Utah. My neighbors would have time to band together to protect the neighborhood, if it came to that. I think my town has as many guns as houses, maybe more. I only personally know two people who don't own guns, though there are probably a few more.

There are strategic vantage points that would allow us to see a mob coming from 25 miles away, and only a few ways to get into the valley. Mountain ranges on 3 sides of the valley would be used to great advantage in defending it from a ground invasion by rioters.

I believe that if people were starving, we would share our food, but we would also protect it from being stolen.