I made a 20M EDZ that's just about 90 FT
(there is a formula in the ant books to get this length) that's 2 5/8 wave
segments , center fed.

I feed it with 450 Ohm line to a MFJ balanced
line tuner.

That length is pretty interesting because it
is pretty close to a halfwave on 60M, a double Zepp (1 wavelength centerfed) on
30m, close to a 3/4 wave doublet on 40M and I can get pretty good reports using
it from 5 to 18.1 MHz.

It will tune up on on 80M but it is really
poor at transmitting and hearing, compared to my halfwave 80M dipole.

CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JDhi Dave,Everybody has his own experiences in his or hers specific situation, you
just have to experiment.
At my first job a long time ago, my boss was a Ham as well, and tried to Elmer
me.

In the case of wire antennas, he told me to
string up as much wire as possible, feed it with homebrew ladder line, and
invest in a good matching device.
Over the years, after a lot of reading, experimenting and calculations further,
I can only conclude that he was right.
In my case I use a dipole 2 x 25.5 ft, about 40 ft homebrew feed line, spaced
about 4 inches, 30 ft above ground. (that's all I can do in the limited space I
have nowadays).
Used an open homebrew link coupled symmetrical matcher with alligator clips for
years, which I recently replaced by a homebrew double L symmetrical matcher to
get rid of the alligator clips.
With this device I can match this small antenna from 160m-10m from inside my
shack, impedance varying from 54~2200 Ohms.
It even seems to radiate as well, according to RBN and reports by other Hams.
At 160m and 80m the efficiency of this small antenna is of course very low, but
better than nothing.
The only thing this type of matcher doesn't seem to handle well, are resonant
antenna's, but you can cope with this by varying the length of the feed line a
bit. Once done, sit back, and just turn the knobs.
But as said before, everybody has its own thoughts and desires about antenna's
and stuff, as every situation is different.

You have to experiment what works best for
you.

Sorry
Dave, I think I misunderstood.

Because of the ladder line, I assumed a
dipole.
Are you using a Zeppelin type of antenna?

Only one radiator, and the other part of the
feedline running free at the top?
In that case I am trying to understand the symmetrical feed in combination with
the L tuner and radials.
Can you explain what your thoughts are?
73, Jan PA3GSV

I have never
used the 88 foot doublet but have used its little
brother, 44 foot feed with 300ohm twin lead, in a townhouse attic with very
good results.
Have been following this discussion and I am surprised that L. B. Cebik W4RNL
has not been mentioned.
Google “My top five backyard multi-band wire HF antennas” .

The 88 and 44 footer are discussed along with
various configurations of both.
Bill KC4IM I made one about 127' long up 50' fed with 450
ohm about 60' to a switch and coax about 50' to rig.

Been working great for years. I use a Palstar
tuner.

Figures close not absolute memory getting a
bit long in the tooth.
KK5AWThx for ur advice on the antenna systems u have
used.

That's pretty well is what I've been doing
since 1959.

I have never minded cutting up or adding to
antenna lengths but I really hate to cut up or add to ladder-line.

I have a kW L-tuner that does a great job.

This time, I will put up a ZS6BKL modified
antenna system to get better results on 80/40 meters.

I use the term antenna system because we are
talking about antenna and feedline is an "antenna system".

Ur experience is worth more to me than some
software solution that was never tried.
Dave Little AF5U Yes, cutting up ladder line is not something to look
forward to.Over the years storms blew down the antenna several times, and I had to
built new ones.
Now I know the near perfect antenna-feeder combination.
But just a question in general, how do you guys find the sweet spot for every
band on your matcher?
Usually I check the DC current drain at a certain power setting for every band
with a dummy load, to start with.
Next I connect the antenna and check for maximum noise, and then fine tune the
controls to get a near 1:1 VSWR.
DC current drain should then be more or less equal to the current drain with
the dummy load.
The idea behind this, that one could assume that the antenna system impedance
should be Ohmic in some extent.
U guess we all take things a step further to get really really convinced that
what we're doing is right.
So I brought a portable VNA with a Smith chart home from work, and to my
surprise some of the settings I found out this way were everything but Ohmic.
It will work I guess, but probably not at its full potential.
Found out all settings again using the VNA, and for the restricted space I
have, I am happy with the results.
But a VNA is not always at hand, I am curious to know how you people do this?
Check for warm coils maybe, but at QRP levels they wont heat up that much.
73 Jan PA3GSV

I
use an end fed wire with a home brew tuner which has a rf amp meter.

I tune for max current in the antenna.

K5jyd Larry Brandon

As mentioned in
another post, an rf current meter is very useful for endfed wires.

They can be made very cheaply with only a few
parts.

A clamp-on meter can be made by using a
common split ferrite core as a sensing coil- the kind that are used on power
cords for RFI suppression.
No thermocouple is needed.

A clamp on RF meter could also be used with
ladder line by clamping around one conductor.
If you have a T-match antenna tuner try to keep the output capacitance at
maximum for best efficiency.

Yes, this is the way to go I guess, got two
of those ammeters lying around.......
They're max 3.5 amps, at voltage maximum the needle hardly moves, but I can
always check at higher power, and then go back to QRP.
Thanks for reminding me of the good stuff kept safe in boxes for you never know
when you're going to need it.
Jan PA3GSV

Most RF
current meters found on ebay, etc. will not work as-is.

Even though the meter face says "RF
Amps" they probably require an external thermocouple.

The ones I
have are made by "Weston" dated 1942, it says
"thermocouple" in the left bottom corner.
Used them with the old link coupled matcher, to determine the settings.
To be honest I forgot about them, until Larry mentioned it.
If memory serves me right, there was about 2.5 ~3 RF amps at 100 Watt at low
impedance / current max.
With all the fancy stuff lying around, one sometimes forgets the basics.
The clamp-on meters are a nice modern alternative.
73 Jan PA3GSV In the older days, hams had current meters inline.

I used HP Network Analysers in tuning
duplexes and TX Combiners.

But, some of the best antennas were designed
by Bogner and they were a amaze of transmission lines of various ohmic values
and phasing lines to achieve more than just matching.

The bottom line is - does it get out or is it
more like a dummy load?
Getting the length the right length is more like a compromise for multiband
antenna systems.

Remember the child’s toy where the heads pop
up and you hit them with a plastic hammer?

He will grow up to be a HF antenna designed
using his VNA as the hammer.
Dave Little AF5U

Yes, this
child's toy with the hammer and VNA is a good comparison.
At work we get sample cellular antenna's every now and then for testing, which
we sometimes cut open.
Sometimes 5 bands in one enclosure, electrical tilt etc.

They're artworks of engineering, can keep
looking at them.
Then it's comforting to get home and worry only about a single wire.
Jan PA3GSV

One place I
worked would open up cylendrical fiberglas radomes on
the big VHF and UHF commercial antennas, usually coaxial brass dipoles that had
broken couplings that we re-soldered or brazed to get them back in operation
and would then sell at discount to our smaller business customers .

Now some of the newer UHF or 8-900 MHz
antennas just have thin wire elements inside the fiberglas (some are PVC
plastic) tubes.

CHEAP.

CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD

We've seen
riveted contacts on antennas from local Chinese suppliers.

Not very PIM friendly.

Talking about cheap.. 73 Jan PA3GSV

Correct way to ask for repetes in
a QSO

Just watched a YouTube video and have often
wondered this as a new OP what was the correct way to ask for someone to repeat
information...
I've not heard this so far but that does not mean anything as I have only 30
QSO's under my belt...https://youtu.be/WsxM4vKI5h0

In the video they state to have info repeated
in the last round you say " agn AA (prosingn for all after) and a word to
indicate the start point "
or agn AB (prosing for all before) and a word to indicate the start point ...
or agn BN (prosign for All Between) two indicated words ...
I'm sure there are several different ways, just want to start using the correct
expected format.

At this point in my early CW adventure I find
that when I encounter characters or procedures/prosigns I don't expect I loose
several characters before I get back in stride...
73, KQ4MM- Brian

Ah…. What is
the “correct” way….. fuel the missiles, arm the
warheads….
Unleash the dogs of war!!
Well Brian, I’ll tell you what 99.9% of people do, and they do NOT use AA, AB,
or BN.

Those prosigns may be used for for passing
net traffic, but are almost unheard of for normal on the air chatter.
If I didn’t copy your SKCC number, I’ll send “BK nbr nbr ? ? BK”. If I didn’t
get you name, I’ll send “BK name name ? ? BK”
There are some variations on the above, but that’s about it.
BTW, if you don’t understand what I’m asking, please respond with a simple “BK
? ? BK”.

Please do NOT respond with RST, name, state,
number.
That is REALLY annoying…..
73 Mark K3MSBSorry I can't watch the video here at work.

From what you describe, that is the correct
way you would ask for repeat info, or a fill, during message traffic exchanges.

This
information is true for traffic handling.
In casual QSOs, I usually just send NAME AGN PSE or something similar, or, even
more colloquially, MISSED UR NAME AGN PSE.
73 - Bill KA8VIT

If you know
specifically what you want repeated (NAME, etc.) just send it as a question:
NAME? K
Of course, you can be more conversational if you want:
SRI QRN PLS NAME? K
If you didn't copy anything just send "PLS AGN?".
73, Drew AF2Z Yes, traffic net ops are a breed of their own and casual
chat QSOs do not follow that book too much.

I have asked a new CW op to repeat his name
or QTH and get the whole thing, RST Name QTH AGE etc, over again and that sure
slows things down until the band goes flat and the entire QSO is lost.

If you miss the name of the other op just say
"PSE RPT NAME ? BK" That's all !

SAME if you miss the QTH, Juat say "PSE
RPT QTH ? BK"

If some one asks you to repeat your QTH,
DON'T repeat EVERYTHING !

Just your QTH !!!The way the bands have been
declining and spotty, you need to keep the messages brief and to the point ! If
you live in Mississippi, DON'T spell it out , it's recognized as MS to everyone
!

The shorter message gets thru if there is QSB
and a long drawn out transmission may get lost in a band fade out !Have Fun !
CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD Yeah, and if condx are really poor and you need several
items repeated just do one at a time.

You may need several exchanges to get the
name.
Then ask for NR? Then RST?.
If you're really dedicated you can end up going back and forth eight or ten
times to complete the QSO.

Or see who bails out first-- you or the other
guy, haha...73, Drew AF2Z

How about just
Qth imi, name imi, nr imi, rst imi. . . . .IMI.

Also if u get a 599 rst, there's no need to
send everything twice unless you think it is a new op (new nr or Qrs opr) and
then I repeat everything just to give him a chance to get it all.
73 All, Allan W4EAB " UR RST 599 BUT PSE RPT EVERYTHING"ditty dum dum diddy ...CW is Real Radio 73, John...K8JD

It
would not be unreasonable for a new op give you a 599 report.......

and then ask for a repeat of everything, nor
should new ops be afraid to ask for a repeat at any time.

Folks just getting started with code can get
flustered and miss stuff.

Most (but, maybe not all, it seems) SKCC
members will be happy to repeat any or all of the info.
Steve AI9IN

Not to mention
if someone starts up a leaf blower, chainsaw, etc next door
during the QSO.

RST 599 might be a valid signal report but
still miss some of the copy.
73, Drew AF2ZWhen I started back in the 60’s, the S was read
from the S-meter on the rig.

I eventually learned that the rig reading was
only a swag.

Also what do you report if he is S7 with S7
noise?

Finally, so many new guys or contesters who
are used to an “F1 F2 F3” exchange from the keyer/computer don’t really seem to
know that there is something other than 599 (or better yet, 5NN as it is
faster).
Honestly, without looking it up, would you know what 596 meant?

I wouldn’t and it is my question.

With the current band conditions I’ve seen
signals go from 599 to 339 in the middle of a transmission.

Finally, code speed gets to be relative very
quickly.

I can do a standard exchange at 30 to 35 wpm
when QRN/QRM/QSB are being nice, the band is open and everything is good.

I’ve had to ask for repeats (QSZ), slower
code (QRS) or any number of accommodations based on conditions when things are
other than “nice”.
I have sent RST 399 when the noise level is right at the signal strength.

I know that if I give you 599, I shouldn’t
need a repeat; but it does happen.

Sometimes it even happens to me; especially
if you send something I’m not expecting or someone calls me or the dog barks in
my ear or ???.

Life happens. In a rag chew, everything is
slower and more relaxed and I’m not expecting a specified order in the exchange
so I am more flexible ( I hope).
It is all about having fun and helping the other guy along. If I want perfect
communications, I’d use SKYPE/FACETIME.
Just my not so humble opinion of course.Les, Leslie Hock WB5JWI

As everyone
has indicated, there is no "correct" way
as everyone has their own idea of what's correct or not.
I suggest you think less about what's correct or what you think is expected and
just speak as you would in a conversation.
Sri....missed ur last, pse ? (imi...repeat)
I just had a conversation last night and the op was practicing head copy and
got lost and came back to me and said just that, so I slowed down and repeated
my last comment and all was good.

He thanked me for QRS so he could get all the
copy.

The lesson is that he didn't give me some
lame excuse or just ignore what I said and faked it...he just told me what was
going on and we continued to have a very nice QSO as a result.
That's one HUGE favor you can do yourself and the op on the other end, and
that's ask the other op to slow down if your having problems with copy.

Just say you're a new op and need to go
slower.

No biggie.
Have fun and welcome to CW.

I love it and I'm sure you will too.
73, Steve-W1SFR

Good advice.

Old salts help the greenhorns.

We're not an exclusive club, but a fellowship
dedicated to a fine art form!

First digit, readability.

Second is signal strength.

Third is tone quality.

How embarrassed I was in 1990 after getting
my General giving a SSB operator a "589" report!

We laughed, I learned.

Greg LathropHonestly, without looking it up, would you
know what 596 meant?Would I know exactly the difference between a 597, 596, or 595? No.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't convey
information.
I've found that for a person not versed in anything but a new Yaewoodcom radio,
it's either a T9 or something really bad; most times I get sent a T5.
Also, those not versed in tube radios usually don't know the difference between
a T8 or a T9C.
So, if I get something other that a T9 I consider the source and how often I've
received the non T9 during the event.73 Mark K3MSBWhat does the first 5 mean?

If you get a report of 199 would you
understand that the recipient is having trouble copying you, your sending
is bad or there is a transmitter/receiver problem.
73 Brian KF6CYes. I've worked many strong stations hindered by
interference.

I really dislike eco smart LED bulbs.

The root of all QRN...Greg Lathrop

R stands for
Readability:1. Unreadable
2. Barely readable, occasional words distinguishable
3. Readable with considerable difficulty
4. Readable with practically no difficulty
5. Perfectly readable
Unless the sending operator gives you a reason for an R1 through R4, you don't
know.
BTW I received a 509 report this last WES!

Since the station was sending it to others as
well, I assume the S was his S Meter reading.73 Mark K3MSB

PC5M is sadly RIP and there is no more
development - therefore it seems to be as it is - but N1MM+ is supported.
Greetings Peter DF1LX

I checked out the information
on ATHENA, but when trying to download it from PC5M’s web site/link, it
disappears.

I did a little investigating and it looks
like PC5M is a SK.

Does anyone have a copy of the software to share?

It is referred to as free, just like N1MM.

Thanks in advance,

73 de Jim – KE8G

Editor.... See
atachment pse

Family names are interesting

As an example "van Oosterhout"
named after a city in the provincie Noord Brabant.

"van Ooijen" is a municipality
in the municipality of Horst on the Meuse, in the Dutch province of Limburg.

"Pietersen" the sun of Pieter.

"Paardenkoper" someone selling
horses.

What is the meaning of
Oelp my family name ?

So In 2014, I was curious about my
ancestors and where they came from.

I did not go beyond Louisa Oelp born in early
1800

She gave her family name to her son Johan
Oelp.

What? Louisa is thus an unmarried woman
with a child?

The name of my true ancestor (From father to
son) still unknown or not?

The populationregister of Zutphen states that
on 22 October 1861 the following persons were registered in the municipality of
Zutphen, namely:
Gerrit van Ouwerkerk born August 18,1823* (38 years) in Amersfoort

Lucia Ulb born January 11,1823 (38
years) in Ramsbach Germany **

Johan Ulb born March 1,1862 (4 months) in
Zutphen (Johan must be added later)

The birthregister of Zutphen mentions the
birth of a son who brought Louisa Oelp on March 1,1862 with the name
Johan in the presence of

Gerrit van Ouwerkerk, aged 38 years

That can not be a coincidence.

Phonetically, the German name Ulb is the same
as the Dutch name Oelp.

I think a Zutphense official asked her name
and wrote Oelp in the registry

Bin ich aus Deutschem Blut?

What's the problem?

Gerrit van Ouwerkerk was in that
time married with Elizabeth Diepeveen, but has not been officially
divorced for 20 years.

According to the law a begotten child
must receive the mother's family name.

After the death of Gerrits wife Elizabeth
Diepeveen, Gerrit Ouwerkerk (48) is married to his beloved Lucia
Ulb on 15 mei 1872

The government in the Netherlands asked for a
birth certificate of Lucia Ulb, but it was not present.

The pastor in Ramsbach as a civilian official
produced after 45 years on March 1, 1872, a birth certificate that was
confirmed by the government in Wiesbaden on March 3, 1872 that Lucia Ulb is
born on 3 mei, 1827**

I am confused what is my real family name is
it Jan Pieter Oelp is it Jan Pieter Ulb (phonetically the
same) or bij family name transfer from father to son (do not freak
out) Jan Pieter Van Ouwerkerk, with German / Dutch blood?

Ask what is an oelp, what is a ulb it will
not be clearer.

What is an van ouwerkerk?

I need to look up so much information!

Thanks to Jeroen for his research in the
municipal archives of Zutphen.

(With an international DNA bank it would be
much easier to find / track your family, as Jan PA3CKX long time ago predicted
that this would happen in the futures)