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A heavy pro-Trump Republican (Ron DeSantis) just won in Florida in their primary for Governor. Trump did a rally in Tampa for this guy and he did ads showing him reading Trump's "Art of the Deal" and having his daughter say "Make America Great Again."

So if if they've "had it with Trump" then why this Florida win? It isn't just Florida, this is just the most current real time data.

Both of the top Republicans were avid Trump supporters, fighting to see who could be more pro-trump. Not really a choice there, and the much lower turnout by Republican voters reflected that folks just weren't very excited. Compare that with the turnout the Democrats had.

That isn't an argument. You don't get declatory judgment with an exclamation mark.

A rhetorical question is not an argument:

This is not an argument against his position now, is it. Were you to have an argument, you would use it.

So right back to calling me names:

We just can't have a post without racist, sexist, misogynist, nutjob, Jim Crow Slavery, etc. etc.

It isn't just ineffective, it is increasingly counterproductive. One of the things I see happening is that decent people withdraw from interaction with the abusive.

So the abusive start thinking they represent a much greater force than their numbers. I check in here every now and then to see if the strategy has changed, that is if it has worked its way down to the rank and file, and I see it has not.

So I marvel at it.

Perhaps you could give us some replacement words we could use so we don't trigger you? Instead of referring to a misogynist President as "misogynist", what would make you feel better?

Ditto "racist". I actually agree. Racist is far too light. I'd prefer "bigoted". But if that's going to foul your safe space, perhaps you could give us a preferred term to use. "Caucasian Rights Advocate"?

I'm here to help. You just tell us the words you'll be more comfortable with and I'll get out there and campaign for people to use them.

Unless, of course, you mean what I think this argument always means, "Why can't you just not mention that he's a misogynist xenophobic racist?" See, I don't buy the "just be nice 'cuz name-calling doesn't win votes" crap. The 2016 election was won after a twenty-five year campaign of name-calling and lies. The only difference is that it's now one of the name-calling liars who's being called names.

Instead of going "tsk tsk we shouldn't be repeating vulgarities", when a cabinet member calls the POTUS a "******* idiot" it should be repeated and put in campaign adverts. You go low? We go right there with you and beat you at your own game. Lou Dobbs doesn't like it? Tough ****! Why do I give a rat's butt what that bigot-enabling old fart likes.

__________________Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

That isn't an argument. You don't get declatory judgment with an exclamation mark.

A rhetorical question is not an argument:

This is not an argument against his position now, is it. Were you to have an argument, you would use it.

So right back to calling me names:

We just can't have a post without racist, sexist, misogynist, nutjob, Jim Crow Slavery, etc. etc.

It isn't just ineffective, it is increasingly counterproductive. One of the things I see happening is that decent people withdraw from interaction with the abusive.

So the abusive start thinking they represent a much greater force than their numbers. I check in here every now and then to see if the strategy has changed, that is if it has worked its way down to the rank and file, and I see it has not.

So I marvel at it.

I never called you a name. Not even close. Not all Trump supporters support Trump for the same reasons. But some definitely have fallen for the false populism of xenophobic and racial rhetoric. You may not like that analysis, but that is your problem not mine.

I'm not campaigning and not trying to persuade you or anyone that Trump is a sexist, racist lying piece of white trash. If you can't see that, then I believe you should remove the rose colored glasses. Like it or not, Trump is empirically these things. And I have Republican friends who voted for him who agree.

__________________“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

An hour after the polls close in AZ and still no count? Did I miss a time change?

That didn't stop Mike Pence, though. Hours before the polls closed he tweeted his congratulations to Ducey (who's gonna pretty certainly win, I must say). He later deleted it. I reckon he was preparing it to send later when he was distracted by a fine turn of ankle by some floozie walking by.

ETA: Reports out of at least Tempe that hundreds of people were still in line 45 minutes after the polls closed. I saw an earlier report that polls around Phoenix that were supposed to open at 7 am were finally reported as "all open" by 11. AZ just can't seem to get its **** together to run a simple election. I think it's a feature rather than a bug.

__________________Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

An hour after the polls close in AZ and still no count? Did I miss a time change?

That didn't stop Mike Pence, though. Hours before the polls closed he tweeted his congratulations to Ducey (who's gonna pretty certainly win, I must say). He later deleted it. I reckon he was preparing it to send later when he was distracted by a fine turn of ankle by some floozie walking by.

ETA: Reports out of at least Tempe that hundreds of people were still in line 45 minutes after the polls closed. I saw an earlier report that polls around Phoenix that were supposed to open at 7 am were finally reported as "all open" by 11. AZ just can't seem to get its **** together to run a simple election. I think it's a feature rather than a bug.

Maricopa County Recorder Adrian Fontes rode into office in 2016 in the wake of a “presidential preference” election that went terribly wrong, with people standing in line for too long at too few polling places.

So when 62 of the County’s 503 polling places failed to open on time Tuesday morning, it begged comparison. Fontes, a Democrat, claims it is not the same at all.

The company hired to set up the voting equipment, he said, did not send the number of technicians the county had contracted for, and so he had to “up-train” county employees to plug in wires and get the equipment ready for election day.

Both of the top Republicans were avid Trump supporters, fighting to see who could be more pro-trump. Not really a choice there, and the much lower turnout by Republican voters reflected that folks just weren't very excited. Compare that with the turnout the Democrats had.

Both of the top Republicans were avid Trump supporters, fighting to see who could be more pro-trump. Not really a choice there, and the much lower turnout by Republican voters reflected that folks just weren't very excited. Compare that with the turnout the Democrats had.

"Much lower"? Jeez, foophil, you're making me agree with S&A???!!!!!

The turnout compared to the last similar primary (1 Senate Seat and the Governorship) is waaaay up.

The GOP vote is 100,000+ more than the Democratic Governor Primary this year.

The only "down" is compared to a presidential year and that always happens. Turnout is always greater when there's a presidential race. (Trump's version to the fundies is that "because I'm not on the ballot", ignoring the generic fact that all Presidential years have greater turnouts than the off-year elections.)

__________________Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

Apparently someone drew circles and arrows around the data in "the spreadsheet" that's making the rounds in the GOP caucuses. Purportedly there are over a hundred investigations into the GOP and Trump that can/will be launched if the GOP loses control of the House. Topmost, of course, in Trump's little brain is that a Democratic House is going to put a Democrat in Devin Nunes chair. Anyone from Trump's gardeners to his dead parents will probably get a crackerjack committee investigating them.

Meanwhile, polls are closed in Florida and there are no surprises. The favorites (poll leaders) took all the nominations. Trump is two for two, backing the favorites in FL like a "bridge jumper". I'm not sure he realizes it's a primary; he'll probably tweet out the results as how Republicans won in all the Republican primaries!

A couple of hours before anything comes in from Arizona. Moderates face the "let's vote for the least crazy of the three - but hey, that's pretty hard to figure out" conundrum. Figure McSally to win, but I can still hope for a statewide brain aneurysm and a Joe Arpaio win, can't I?

All this just shows that, if you're ever in a position to hear Trump say something, you should record him.

An hour after the polls close in AZ and still no count? Did I miss a time change?

That didn't stop Mike Pence, though. Hours before the polls closed he tweeted his congratulations to Ducey (who's gonna pretty certainly win, I must say). He later deleted it. I reckon he was preparing it to send later when he was distracted by a fine turn of ankle by some floozie walking by.

ETA: Reports out of at least Tempe that hundreds of people were still in line 45 minutes after the polls closed. I saw an earlier report that polls around Phoenix that were supposed to open at 7 am were finally reported as "all open" by 11. AZ just can't seem to get its **** together to run a simple election. I think it's a feature rather than a bug.

Gosh, voting in the US sounds so complicated. Here's it's ridiculously simple.

I'd like to see what US elections would look like if you had mandatory voting.

It's too dangerous. They might end up voting for the joke candidate.

Oh, wait a minute... They already did!

__________________"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

I'd like to see what US elections would look like if you had mandatory voting.

Manadatory voting is a horrible idea. If someone does not want to vote, they certainly will not take the time to study the issues and the candidates,and I think it better that people totally ignorant of what they are voting about not vote at all.

__________________Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

And it starts off with a Trumpian warning from Ron DeSantis. He just warned Floridians not to 'monkey' this up by electing his black opponent.

I saw that.
The days of the "Dog Whistle " are over, the GOP Is now openly the party of White Supremacy.
If the Dems don't win big in November, I think every gain made during the Civil Rights Era will be overthrown. And the massive violence that will result weill send this country in the abyss.

__________________Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

NONSENSE!
I get very well the appeal Trump has to some voters. The nutjobs who don't care that Trump is a sexist racist misogynist who has the moral compass of cretin support him simply because they see minorities and women as threats to their cherished superior position. They want to turn back the clock. Trump's slogan of Make America Great Again alludes to that time. Not so much to Jim Crow and separate drinking fountains but back to the time when being a white male meant unquestioned authority.

Maybe it's time to focus on the rest of the Trump supporters. Arguing with the type of person you describe seems pointless.
Of all the votes cast in 2016, 'white males voting for Trump' was just 21.4%. The other 25% of Trump voters were women and minorities. Without their votes Trump could not have won. (I used wiki for the rounded numbers so it might be a little off)

Recent polls suggest his minority approval is actually trending up (though I am skeptical of Rasmussen's recent 36% black approval poll as the previous 22% number was already a huge increase). What explains it?

Yesterday's primaries do not show any Blue Wave coming as far as I can tell. in Florida, Republican turnout was 4pts above normal for a 'party in power' midterm, even with all the troubling news of recent weeks. We'll see what the unaffiliated voters think in November. That is a huge missing piece.

I don't live in Florida, and GIllum is too far to the left for my personal taste, but if I lived in Florida, I would vote for him over a bigot like De Santis in a New York minute;the legislature would be enough to check GIllum in some of his silliere ideas.

__________________Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

That's not even a dog whistle is it? Looks like the GOP are just being openly racist now.

Its the Deep South. It's a heritage that is tough for them to give up. This is going to be a very very ugly race. I thought a moderate white Democrat could easily win the general election because it's the Trumpian of candidates. Instead, it's a very progressive black candidate who is very articulate. It will be a test of how far Florida has come. As much as I want Gillum to win I am afraid that in Florida, he loses. Far too many people are racially bigoted even if they don't know it.

__________________“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Where is here?
Yeah, voting in the US is more complicated then in Europe;that is because the US is a much bigger country then in Europe.

I don't think its so much about the size of country (or population) but on what goes into an election.

In Canada we vote for a member of parliament. That's all. In the U.S., in a general election you vote for a president, a congress-critter, a senator, perhaps there may be a referendum or 2 on the ballet, as well as other minor offices.

I don't think its so much about the size of country (or population) but on what goes into an election.

In Canada we vote for a member of parliament. That's all. In the U.S., in a general election you vote for a president, a congress-critter, a senator, perhaps there may be a referendum or 2 on the ballet, as well as other minor offices.

Plus ,for the sake of effiencey state and local elections are usually scheduled on the same day as the national elections.
I also think having regulary scheduled elections has something to do with it.

__________________Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

In a few days I'll be getting a government paper telling me where to vote in the provincials, and on that day I'll just walk there, give my name and govt. ID (which we all have, of course), and 2 minutes later my vote will be cast (on paper, which you can't hack).

Originally Posted by dudalb

Manadatory voting is a horrible idea. If someone does not want to vote, they certainly will not take the time to study the issues and the candidates,and I think it better that people totally ignorant of what they are voting about not vote at all.

Yeah, I'm not sure I like the idea at all, unless public schooling and civics are also mandatory, at the very least.

“Let’s build off the success we’ve had on Gov. Scott. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work,” DeSantis said.

Nothing wrong with that at all, imo.

__________________What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

“Let’s build off the success we’ve had on Gov. Scott. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work,” DeSantis said.

Nothing wrong with that at all, imo.

Oh c'mon. Get serious. Stop being so disingenuous. If you don't think the use of the word 'monkey' wasn't a clarion call to the bigots out there, than you need to get out more. He could easily have chosen 'screw up' or 'muck up' or 'foul up'.

But nooooo, he chose 'monkey'.

__________________“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

The nutjobs who don't care that Trump is a sexist racist misogynist who has the moral compass of cretin support him simply because they see minorities and women as threats to their cherished superior position.

I keep hearing that, but I guess my experiences as a white Canadian don't quite match up, so I'd ask: what "superior position" is that? I get the idea of bias and systemic advantages, but it's not something you usually notice. My life success is wholly based on the efforts of my father, not my skin colour, but then, there was essentially zero black people where I grew up, so that's a terrible example.

Anyway, wondering how that "fear losing their privilege" works in the wild, as giving rights to others doesn't negate yours, so I've always been slightly confused by this one.

In a few days I'll be getting a government paper telling me where to vote in the provincials, and on that day I'll just walk there, give my name and govt. ID (which we all have, of course), and 2 minutes later my vote will be cast (on paper, which you can't hack).

I don't think you need actual official government ID. I seem to remember you can either use:
- Actual government ID (driver's license, passport, etc.)
- A utility bill, bank statement, library card, student card, or similar that has your name/address on it
- have someone with you who will swear to your identity

Oh c'mon. Get serious. Stop being so disingenuous. If you don't think the use of the word 'monkey' wasn't a clarion call to the bigots out there, than you need to get out more. He could easily have chosen 'screw up' or 'muck up' or 'foul up'.

But nooooo, he chose 'monkey'.

"Monkey around" a pretty common term.

If it's associated with black people, I am unaware of that association.

I don't see anything in it, though.

Hopefully it blows over and I don't have to quit listening to that song.

__________________What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

If it's associated with black people, I am unaware of that association.

I don't see anything in it, though.

Hopefully it blows over and I don't have to quit listening to that song.

It easy to not to see something if you have partisan blinders on.

The level of denial by some at what the GOP has become is incredible. It ain't the Party of Reagan and McCain anymore. It the party of Trump, and is rapisly beomcing nothing but a personality cult for him.
And anyway, using the term "monkey" in reference to an Afro American is really ,really stupid.

__________________Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Oh c'mon. Get serious. Stop being so disingenuous. If you don't think the use of the word 'monkey' wasn't a clarion call to the bigots out there, than you need to get out more. He could easily have chosen 'screw up' or 'muck up' or 'foul up'.

But nooooo, he chose 'monkey'.

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle! This thread is more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Once I finish watching the movie "Monkey Business," I need to pick up my monkey wrench and head back to work.

In a few days I'll be getting a government paper telling me where to vote in the provincials, and on that day I'll just walk there, give my name and govt. ID (which we all have, of course), and 2 minutes later my vote will be cast (on paper, which you can't hack).

Yeah, I'm not sure I like the idea at all, unless public schooling and civics are also mandatory, at the very least.

And not even then. Civics are notoirous in the US as a boring class which students regard as a "pass and forget" course.
Often with considerable justidication, The civics class I took in High School was incredibly boring,and I have always been interested in politics.

__________________Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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