Having worked closely with a psychopath and been raised by a narcissist..

A psychopath does not have empathy. The one I worked with knew this. She teamed up with me because I am the opppsite so it made her look better. She wanted the next promotion but leaders had to have people skills so she teamed up with me (the assistant) to reflect well on her.

What she did to me was disempower me so much that even after 4 years I still have not recovered. I feel like she stole a piece of me. The piece that has the joy and happiness and I don't know how to get it back.

A narcissist is like a parasite. They are insatiable and MUST have the attention and adoration of others at all costs. They have a certain way about them but it's easy to pick if you can see the signs in yourself. You have to become an observer of yourself.

If I feel like I'm looking in a mirror. If I find myself thinking I just click with someone. If I find myself thinking the words best friend. Then I know I'm in deep **** and gotta get away.

I try not to allow the above to happen by keeping people at arms length til I cam work them out.

I look for the inconsistencies in their stories. I look at myself for how I react. If I'm going around im circles trying to work out their motivation etc.

Narcissists all sing from the same song book so whilst I can't tell you all you need to know in one post there is so much info out there. The best defence against people like this is to educate yourself.

I was watching "the doctors" TV show, last month and a guest/neurologist who researches the brains' of psychopaths said that every one the worst known psychopaths where all abused and neglected during their early childhood.

I am in no way condoning their terrible actions.

Just trying to emphasize from a possible preventative strategy, that if we as a society could reduce the abuse and neglect, maybe as a society we could reduce the hurt that these people cause later in life.

if i remember correctly the neurologist said that there was some possible genetic predisposition, and the neurologist said he carried the possible genetic predisposition. I wonder if because he was not traumatized during his early childhood, he did not become a psychopath?

Again I am not condoning the terrible actions these people commit, my empathy for these people is directed at their early traumatic experiences, from a preventative perspective.

I am also not saying all people who have experienced early childhood traumatic experiences will become psychopaths, that is partly why I have a hard time understanding these terms psychopath and narcissist, etc. there always seems to be some type of terrible causation, resulting in these labels, there always seems to be some type of terrible "learned/experience" that is primary problem, that if only could have been prevented.

I also wonder if these people could get better, or at least not worse, if there was a away to help treat the trauma before they commit such terrible actions?

I appreciate you sharing your painful experiences in an attempt to help me understand the subjects better.

M

__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better—they want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)

There is a diagnosis in the DSM called "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" (NPD).

The DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria for NPD were as follows:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSM-IV-TR

A. A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
4. Requires excessive admiration.
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.

In addition, a person would have to meet some general criteria for personality disorder in order to qualify for this diagnosis.

In DSM-5, these criteria were changed slightly (after some discussion of removing the diagnosis and replacing it with a more dimensional personality disorder diagnosis). A version I found from June 2011 gives the diagnostic criteria as follows:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pre-DSM 5, June 2011 revisions

The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of pathological personality traits. To diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):

a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting is based on gaining approval from others; personal standards are unreasonably high in order to see oneself as exceptional, or too low based on a sense of entitlement; often unaware of own motivations.

AND

2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Impaired ability to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others; excessively attuned to reactions of others, but only if perceived as relevant to self; over- or underestimate of own effect on others.
b. Intimacy: Relationships largely superficial and exist to serve self-esteem regulation; mutuality constrained by little genuine interest in others‟ experiences and predominance of a need for personal gain

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:

1. Antagonism, characterized by:

a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert; self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is better than others; condescending toward others.
b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.

C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

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Psychopathy is another word whose usage has changed through time.

Roughly speaking, the word is often used to describe people who seem to lack what might be called a conscience -- people who cause pain or harm to others and don't feel bad about it.

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) in the DSM, or Dissocial Personality Disorder in the ICD, are diagnoses that are sometimes given to people who in some cases might be described as psychopaths. (There are other definitions of psychopathy and ways of assessing it, too, some of which are narrower.)

I wonder if we all could be considered a narcissist to a certain degree?

What your post describes to me is something I see in all people to varying degrees, including myself.

Sometimes I am consciously focusing on what I look like from an outside perspective/consciousness.

Sometimes I am not focusing on what I look like from an outside perspective, (more from a "internal outward" type of consciousness, then walk past a reflection in a store window, that can trigger that type of outside perspective type of consciousness.

I remember after reaching puberty and started being concerned with my outer appearance, mostly in an attempt to attract the opposite sex, that I would get uncomfortably stuck on thinking about my appearance from a outer perspective, focusing on what other people were focusing on about my appearance.

I also noticed that males (including me) tense up when entering a room with other people, as if to intimidate other males in room, that we do not know. (And vice versa)

I am not sure where I am going with this post/conversation, wondering if other people can relate?

M

__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better—they want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)

If you're questioning whether you are a narcissist it means you mostly likely NOT one.

A lot of people have experienced childhood traumas. Whether you go on to become an abuser is another issue. My mother is a narcissist. I didn't choose to follow in her footsteps. My family is so toxic that they have re-written history and unsurprisingly I get the blame for my mother exposing my kids to a paedophile to 'prove' he was rehabilitated. Yeah... I have finally gone no contact with the lot of them.

I wonder if we all could be considered a narcissist to a certain degree?

What your post describes to me is something I see in all people to varying degrees, including myself.

Sometimes I am consciously focusing on what I look like from an outside perspective/consciousness.

Sometimes I am not focusing on what I look like from an outside perspective, (more from a "internal outward" type of consciousness, then walk past a reflection in a store window, that can trigger that type of outside perspective type of consciousness.

I remember after reaching puberty and started being concerned with my outer appearance, mostly in an attempt to attract the opposite sex, that I would get uncomfortably stuck on thinking about my appearance from a outer perspective, focusing on what other people were focusing on about my appearance.

I also noticed that males (including me) tense up when entering a room with other people, as if to intimidate other males in room, that we do not know. (And vice versa)

I am not sure where I am going with this post/conversation, wondering if other people can relate?

M

Most people do care about themselves, spend some time thinking about themselves.

But we also care about others and think about other people's needs.

Apparently a narcissist only thinks about themselves and doesn't care at all
about others needs.

And then there's the psychopath who does think about other's needs and
thinks about ways to use that need to their own benefit.

__________________ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.

As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me

a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior.
informal
an unstable and aggressive person.
"schoolyard psychopaths will gather around a fight to encourage the combatants"

And then there's the psychopath who does think about other's needs and
thinks about ways to use that need to their own benefit.

I had read an article that said the traits of a psychopath often help them attain executive positions in companies.

I always thought it was because of the "me first" and lack of empathy for others that allowed them to "shut off" inhibitions for the sake of the best interests of those around them in the workplace that neurotypical people aren't comfortable doing.

I always thought that type of person would stick out like a sore thumb as being entirely self-serving and not a good leader because of it.

But now that I read what you said about them actually being aware of others' needs and using them to their advantage, it's no wonder so many of those people are successful in the upper echelons of executive management positions because as the leader of the company, their own success is inextricably woven with the success of the company they run, so it appears more that they are ruthlessly making the company successful at all costs, rather than just all out for themselves?

And if there is anything we as a society, could do to possibly prevent or lessen the severity, before they hurt other people?
M

The cause is the fracture of a core relationship early in life. Although best from the horses mouth Sam Vanknin has some videos and writings that explain how it really is - he is a narcissist and is the expert on most things narcissism.

If they can be helped only Sam would know how. However they don't think they need help. They believe they are superior to us mere mortals and in some respects they can do what other's can't. They don't need to sleep. They don't always feel pain. There is a place for them in our society and sometimes they are quite likeable. You can enjoy the company of a narcissist as long as you don't let then in to your emotional space.

If they are your family you have no choice but to run. If they are a work colleague then the best thing is to have some physical distance between you and them and don't share your personal information.

My advice as an adhd person is learn appropriate boundaries and apply them to every relationship

Now Psychopaths. The one I worked with knew she was missing something. She also knew she could never aquire it. The issue here was that I was not the right person to work with her in close proximity. In the workplace she is driven and achieves a lot. She doesn't need to sleep so would take work home and do twice as much as everyone else.

I don't want to label people as good or bad coz life is not black and white. But if you are empathic or a child of a narcissist or have also had a fracture in a core relationship early in life or have been traumatised then these people are not people you want to let into your head. Doesn't mean they don't have a place.

I feel bad for psychopaths. There are plenty of people that are diagnosed with it that know they are different and do not want to be. Just like other mental illnesses I think the assumption that they will commit acts of violence isnt actually as prevalent. Imagine wanting to have empathy and trying to fake it but literally being unable to express it?

__________________President of the No F's given society.

I carried a watermelon?

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But not all ... and I think there is some thought that even abused psychopaths might have had some genetic predisposition towards that condition.

I just saw a crime documentary of a psychopath who wasn't abused ... but of course, we're still learning about how life in the womb can affect us. And come to think of it, the mother of this particular psychopath wasn't in this guy's life much and wasn't in the documentary. There could have been some trauma in her pregnancy, not sure. Just speculating here.

This psychopath eventually shot up a bunch of people in a mall. But ... even as a young child, like 3 or 4, his parents would catch him choking his baby brother, like multiple times ... really violent stuff ... even at a young age. The father and step-mom sent him for psychiatric help and psychological help multiple times ... They tried everything.

This kid was committed to inflicting pain on others. Committed to that goal.

Sociopathy and Narcissism as PD's typically inprint durring childhood development, but im not sure that there is a full understanding of "how".. except to say that there are certain peoples who are more vulnerable (such as meth babies who are locked in closets all day, and sociopathy). Whereas Narcissism is much more of ... not so much "the world OWES me", but "the world is my property, and it should call itself blessed to have me."

The expression can be violent depending on varrying ego based ideologies/frustration triggers.. but its different than Sociopathy, which often expresses itself from origins of abuse and isolation - a complete lack of bonding to adult/parental/mentor figures which causes a Sociopath to simply, not understand how to care about other people, or see the value in trying, or that there is a need at all. The moral concept of "right and wrong" is lost. I think back to Erik Eriksons Psycho/Social stages of Development model.

Neither Narcissism nor Sociopathy are necissarilly violent and dark, but as with every other Personality DO, they are very challenging to find any means of rehabilitation with. Many of these types dont even acknowledge that there is a fault, so finding methods of treatment is like trying to convince a cow that it can lay eggs. But of those that do, its typically a lifelong "check in"/managed type scenario.

However left uncheck, because of the emotional schism with Sociopathy, discerning right from wrong is a slippery slope. Aswell with Narcissism and boundaries. I mean.. neither really truely understand that they are doing anything .. "wrong". Its not a concept to them. I should say that often, unless bested logically in controlled environments, they wont even agree thay they have done anything wrong.

Also these express in varying depths, theres tons of Narcissists out there. Theres also a ton of Sociopaths. But that doesnt mean that they're dangerous. One of the successful methods ive heard of in reaching these individuals is through Logic based approaches.

As always, i submit myself to the public flaying of correction - willingly and openly.