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Great car, Love it, just some innate flaws...

Great car, Love it, just some innate flaws...

Submitted by richardngordon on Tue, 2013-03-19 09:45

We have recently taken delivery of our new S. Of course the car is fantastic and I know that the company is basically a small start-up company. We have found some basic flaws that should be addressed. 1. The headliner above the rear small triangular window is raw, unfinished and should have a trim piece. A little bit of age and this will be a big problem. 2. The sun visors, vanity mirrors are a joke. Both should be 60 to 80% larger and the mirror should be lighted. I plan to take one off of the car, go to a salvage yard and see if I can find a Mercedes or other car with similar mounting and clips that might work until Tesla provides better visors. Has anyone done this yet? 3. Floor mats, well, this has already been discussed. 4. Interior storage, likewise has been discussed and Tesla says they are working on some solutions. 5. Can they put the charging station finder apps in the app section? 6. Why aren't the high power wall chargers delivered with the car and if they are behind in production of these pieces, shouldn't they be paying for the shipping? 7. Colorado has a front license plate law. Would love to have the plate mountable inside the nose piece so it doesn't look like an add on. Also think that the black nose looks like an afterthought (our car is white). Can I purchase one of these to try to make these changes? 8. The armrests seem to be too tall and too far back which makes the cup holders useless. And why couldn't they put some storage in that tower? Love the car, ride, handling, overall styling. Got the 19" rims, looks way better than the big ones and is much less likely to damage or destroy the wheels on our pot holes and curbs. The 21" wheels must be for 21 year olds that don't have any experience driving. JMHO. Thanks, Rubber side down. RNG

Carefree |
19 mars 2013

Way to go and insult everyone with 21" wheels. I assume this is your first post here? Nice - very nice!

Jon |
19 mars 2013

Jeez, you gotta lotta problems for a guy who says he likes the car. Maybe TM should just set you down in a chair and design their next model right around you.......

weeandthewads |
19 mars 2013

I think what he meant is the 19" rims are for the people who can't drive with hitting pot holes or curbs. The more accomplished driver opts for the 21" rim because they know how to drive.

gasnomo |
19 mars 2013

Why is it that everytime someone points out what they consider issues with the MS they are attacked. I agree the 19" comment could have been edited out, but the rest is his opinion, need he be attacked for it? Can't people just ignore if they don't like? (I happen to agree with the armrest comment).

sethvandermeer |
19 mars 2013

You're free to dislike the 21", I don't fancy them either, nor do I like the white 'color'. But you won't hear me say: Hey, did they forget to paint it! (Oops, said it :-) Respect people's taste, we respect yours!

RedShift |
19 mars 2013

I am expecting to pick up my car in 2 days and I agree with the criticisms.
Lets not whitewash everything and become Pollyannas. Every car has its share of issues.

torst1 |
19 mars 2013

WTF dudes? No need go whaling on him - he spoke his mind. And should be allowed to do so without getting bashed. After all even the comment on the 21" wheel he clearly stated "JMHO". You might wanna google that one....

So he finds stuff that he felt was not up to his expectations. Big deal.
No need for forum freaks to go all defensive. Those are valid opinions. many if not all I have seen been raised by others. It seems that if people do not praise the Tesla all together they are likely to get a real bashing in here.

Come on dudes. Grow TFU. Like your mother told you times and times again - if you ain't got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

ian t.wa.us |
19 mars 2013

I thought I read somewhere that they are looking to source different visors and they'll have lighted mirrors in them.

I agree that it's good to have some perspective and list what you don't like. That's how the company improves, it's called feedback.

Insulting those who choose different than yourself isn't cool though.

Cheers!

Jewsh |
19 mars 2013

Agreed, RedShift. How will Tesla know what improvements drivers are looking forward to in future designs if we don't (politely) discuss our concerns.

To me the 21" rims look fantastic but I'd rather have the ride quality and ruggedness of a 19". I am well aware that I'm not the best driver (who is) and would prefer not to purchase replacement rims.

Agreed; the visors are silly and fell victim to form before function mentality. I think the OP's idea of searching for a stand-in visor is a good one... just be mindful that the low ceiling height in the cabin may prevent installation of a taller replacement. The vanity mirrors I personally couldn't care less about.

The armrest issue is more serious. I noticed it on a longer trip yesterday. I have a fairly thin frame and found that with my arms placed normally at my sides I had nowhere to rest my forearms. My right elbow could be rested on the edge of the sliding tray near the cupholders but this could prove a pressure point given enough time. It's a shame the centre console did not come further forward, relieving this issue. On the left side the door's molding does not come in very far. Larger folks may find this advantageous since there's plenty of room but for me it means extending my arm out quite a bit. I'm going to have lots of time to perhaps revise these notes though. Maybe I am being overly critical of the seating area for the driver.

The back seats are great though. I love them and the car as a whole is fantastic. A+ effort in general.

bigez1 |
19 mars 2013

I think we can all agree constructive criticism is a good thing. However statements such as "The 21" wheels must be for 21 year olds that don't have any experience driving" isn't productive. IMHO

mdtaylor69 |
19 mars 2013

I am much older than 21 and test drove the same P85 model with the 21s and 19s with winter tires. The wow factor was definitely diminished with the 19s. The 21s may be slightly noisier, but the grip and acceleration is day and night difference between them. I have been driving my P85 with the 21s for several weeks now and love it. I have doubled my commute distance just to create a route with more twisties and less traffic just to spend quality more time in the amazing vehicle.

TeslaTap.com |
19 mars 2013

I hadn't noticed #1 (untrimmed headliner in rear) until actually looking at it now. Not something most people would notice and I'd rate it as very minor.
#7 - to redesign front for license plates - I disagree and like the way it looks (I have a grey car). I'd hate to have an ugly drag reducing indent for a license plate. The smooth lines are quite nice.
#8 storage in center tower - while nice idea, my understanding (but not confirmed) is it holds the main vehicle computer. It is not empty.

wolfpet |
19 mars 2013

As the car is becoming more mainstream one would expect more people coming here to share their opinions. And this place will become a forum for everyone, not only dedicated supporters. Also, people who are on the market for 100K car have their bar very high. Small details do matter. A lot. I hope this place won't turn into a fight club because of that and we all will remain civilized about each other opinions.

Peace :-)

nvjx |
19 mars 2013

I agree with every thing richardngordon stated. The sun visors without lights in a car like Model S are a joke in fact embarrassing when I am trying to "show" the car to people. I don't agree with his comments regarding 21" wheels though.

Darmok |
19 mars 2013

It's interesting the different perspectives on the interior and other minor (or not so minor) gripes. Many mention that it is a $100k car. But it is also a $60k car, the extra $ largely being for battery capacity and technology enhancements, not aesthetics and creature comforts. I didn't pay anywhere close to $100k for mine, am quite pleased and do not miss the features most often complained about. Wonder if I would feel differently had I paid over $100k or had previously owned a car in that price range.

GLO |
19 mars 2013

All the "observations" have been in other posts...

Hills |
19 mars 2013

Yes, all the observations have been in other posts. With so many new people on the forum, 80% of the new posts have been discussed. The new people have not learned or don't want to research before posting.

jinglehyme |
19 mars 2013

All owner comments are welcome here! Or at least should be.

Armrests are fine for me - I pretty tall. The plastic visor mirrors were a let down though. Although, after 5000 miles, I have to admit that the have never used them. Not too interested in painted ladies anyway. Au naturale!

As far as the design goes, front nose etc. Let the professionals do their job. They need to appeal to a broad range of tastes. And the have been very successful IMO. There's a school called Art Center College of Design in Pasadena if you want to learn how become an automobile designer.

djsaul |
19 mars 2013

The three minor annoyances that I have had have been 1. Windshield washer sprayer pointed too low (taking it in to get it adjusted), 2. No passenger seat memory (that's pretty suprising for a luxury vehicle), 3. my homelink won't sync (I've tried all suggestions -- going to have them look at that too). But that said, I have yet to bring someone within ten feet of the car who doesn't get excited, and I have yet to bring someone on a drive who can keep from smiling from ear to ear when I punch it....priceless....Oh, and crank the sound, press the command button with your right thumb and say "Play In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins". Doesn't get much better.

Hills |
19 mars 2013

FYI, I complained about the windshield washer sprayer and had them adjust in one of my service calls. My guess is they raised it 2 mm. They won't adjust it higher, saying the slope of the windshield makes it impractical or not easy. I don't buy their argument but I did not fight that battle.

lph |
19 mars 2013

I basically agree with all of Richards comments. Does that mean I think the car is not the best out there? No, because I think that it is the best when everything is considered. There are just a few minor things that need attention for some people to feel completely satisfied. Hey even Tesla is designed and made by humans!.
For a small car company to produce this level of performance and quality striaght off, is an incredible acheivement. I believe that these issues will be addresed in the not too distant future.
I would like to buy one now. I just wish that finances would allow me not to have to wait so long.

Pbfoot |
19 mars 2013

Wish people would look around at some other forums before starting a whole new one with same content that's already been covered. Every one of these items can be found using volkerize.com. Am finding that the tesla owners forum is becoming more useful than this one.

rd2 |
19 mars 2013

The lighted and improved visors are 'on the way'. This has been discussed extensively on this forum, and even GB himself officially weighed in on the lighted visor issue. Not sure it is very high on their priority list right now though.

DonS |
19 mars 2013

Visors are as big as they should be for normal size people who actually need to see the road ahead of the vehicle. I guess munchkin sized drivers might want taller visors.

lph |
19 mars 2013

It is incorrect to say that the flaws are innate. That implies that they can't fix the flaws without changing the fundamental makeup of the car.
The "flaws" are superficial and can be easily fixed when Tesla gets the time.

SBD |
19 mars 2013

For a start up's first real production car it is one sweet ride....
GM and Ford have yet to produce a car of this quality and performance
If every car was custom made it would be priced like a ferarri.
Great job Tesla on the model S...sure there are some improvements that can be made and if anyone has concerns you should wait for the next gernaeration car...never buy a first year run...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion so here is mine: BTW...most of the items on the list were clearly visable on the car at the showroom....
I for one like the size of the visor...fits the slope of the windscreen better, any larger and it would block too much of the road...vanity mirrors? You're driving a Tesla who cares what you look like;.. Interior storage is awesome...love the openess of the center console, ...the car is equiped with the internet...so to find charging stations i have charge point, recargo and blink saved in the favorites...that covers most locations of charging stations in the country...the front of the car looks sweet with a black nose and i have a white car too..i would hate to have a plate on the front....i would rather pay the occasional ticket for the missing plate...cup holder position sucks but you get used to it...
....as for the 21 inch grey wheels...well....the p85 with 21's can only be compared to the porsche panamera and the maserati quatrroporte both of which the tesla blows away...even the non p85's, which you can compare to the mid size bmw and mercedes, look and perform better than those models...

shs |
19 mars 2013

I picked up my MS this last weekend and it came with only 3 valve stem covers. I paid $90K for a car with only 3 valve stem covers! Is this a totally unacceptable innate flaw, or something easily fixed in the fullness of time. For now I think I'll put up with 1 valve stem cover that does not match the others.

Otherwise perfect!

SBD |
19 mars 2013

Really?

shs |
19 mars 2013

I was trying to make a point. Perhaps I failed.

Captain_Zap |
19 mars 2013

I guess I am a munchkin. A wider sun visor is less expensive than making the seat rise higher.

I guess we are in good company since Elon wasn't happy with the sun visors either. Although, I wouldn't mind having the one that he autographed.

Kleist |
19 mars 2013

I don't like any of the color choices...
I hate hatch backs...
Styling doesn't impress me at all...
I can only drive about 200 miles w/o recharging, that sucks...
The dashboard glare in the windshield irritates me...
And so on...

BEFORE I put my deposit down I made the decision that I will accept it and not complain about it ever.

It is a sports sedan... Not a sedan like S class, not a SUV, or whatever you want to compare it to.

Tesla did a fantastic job with their first offering. But one model can not be everything to everbody.

Is it perfect - hell no, but close to it.... Is it exciting - YES ! An adventure - YES !

Absolutely love the clean interior ( please TM never ever force a useless center console on us... make it an option ), love the low noise outside and inside, and so on... You have to make your choices.

Most of the gripes have been covered, yes. Doesn't hurt for a new owner to list their take on it. Wasn't aware of the unfinished interior comment and will check that area out tomorrow.

Have to say the mild flaming retorts on the guy are deserved after ending his post the way he did. Saying "JMHO" doesn't retract the insult he threw at everyone who has 21" or both 19" and 21" wheels. It just reduced the effectiveness of the rest of his post and made him look like a 20 year old ass. JMHO ;)

p.s. does the ;) retract the insult?

shop |
19 mars 2013

Gawd, talk about innate flaws - today I had the unpleasant experience of having to drive my BMW X5 to get it sold. It was the first time I had driven an ICE car since I got my Tesla about 3 weeks ago. It was AWFUL. It was noisy. Since the car had not been driven for a few weeks, it started quite sluggish until the oil started flowing better. I had to use the brakes all the time. The acceleration was jerky no matter how I tried to drive it. The gear progression was annoying. The iDrive interface is the clunkiest thing ever invented and the "user interface" sucks big time. The tiny screen with mostly a large text interface reminded me of a small text CRT computer back in the 1980s. For some reason it never did pick up daylight savings time. I tried fiddling with the date/time settings but could not get it to show the correct time no matter what I did. Oh yeah, and when the guy buying it stepped in for the first time, he pressed the wrong button on the stick shift (it has TWO buttons on the stick), causing an error message to pop up which caused the rear view camera to not show. "It doesn't have a back up camera?" he asked. Well it does, but error messages override it - great design idea guys. Of course, the rear view camera, when it does come on, usually comes on after a second delay. And then it stays on for random intervals while driving forwards. These are probably just startup user interface bugs that could be corrected by a software update, but when I took the car into BMW service for its 12K service, they performed no software updates. Imagine that. I am really, really glad to be rid of that 2012 model car that cost me $65K new. And no, NONE of this is an exageration and there is tons more I could rag about that car. The Tesla, for all its "flaws" and "shortcomings" is head and shoulders above current model ICEs. And that's why people get POed here when newbies trash the Tesla. 'cause we know other cars are much, much worse.

Kleist |
19 mars 2013

@shop +1 . Today I had to drive our E320... I can only second everything you said.

ddruz |
20 mars 2013

Replacement sun visors have been promised since the first Signature cars began shipping. They have been promised to include lighted sun visors. This is item #32 on the Punch List.

Not long ago I double checked with my rep by email and was assured sun visor replacements for everyone were still in the works. No one knows when they will roll out, however. Could be many, many months yet.

Hopefully Tesla will not go back on this promise. We can only wait and see.

@ richardngordon
Most of us really appreciate your feedback, and even the TM website is warning us about using 21" trims beacuse they dont want to pay for damages caused by bad roads...
I think its a choice to make based on the roads you will run them on...

carlk |
20 mars 2013

TS, 21" wheel is expensive to purchase and expensive to maintain. Not saying it's good for you but it serves a purpose for people who want the performance. Op says it's for people who don't know how to drive which can not be further from the truth. In case you don't know just go to the tracks and take a look at tires on those high performance cars that are meant to be driven fast.

lph |
20 mars 2013

Why not have the Tesla with wider tires? Then Porsche panermera Turbo has much bigger tires. The MS looks like it could take bigger ones and that would provide higher grip. Although they are not as efficient I dont believe that there will be a huge penalty in energy usage.

Crow |
20 mars 2013

Richardngordon - Track Day at High Plains to see who knows how to drive?

mark_g |
20 mars 2013

Has anyone had their or know of anyone who has had their fingers caught in a retracting door handle? I was holding the rear door handle and accidentally pressed the key fob at just the wrong spot and the handles started to retract with my finger still between the handle and the body, fortunately i felt the pressure before it completely retracted...but it was close! Are the handles supposed to close regardless of any obstruction?

Captain_Zap |
20 mars 2013

The handles are gentle. The engineers design devices with scenarios like yours in mind.

I've had them retract on my hand when I dawdled around after loading things in the back hatch. I just touched the handle again and it presented itself again.

shop |
20 mars 2013

You'll feel the pressure of a mild spring. No biggie at all.

Hills |
20 mars 2013

advantages of 21"
- better looking to most people when new and not scratched.
- more grippy, more surface area, thus better handling.

disadvantages of 21"
- $3500 more to start
- Tires won't last nearly as long, perhaps not even 1/2 as long as 19". Since the 21" tires are more expensive, the tire costs over the life of the car would be many thousands higher than 19".
- Ride a little harsher
- Mileage a tiny bit lower (3 separate Tesla employees told me this)
- Wheels somewhat easier to scratch, more expense, or terrible appearnce when scratched.
- Tire easier to puncture going over potholes or bumps.
- no snow tires. Even more expense in the snow belt.

mwojcie |
20 mars 2013

I just want to know, did anyone complain about the shortcomings of their last car on a public form for that car - or did they just think to themselves that is what you get with this car? IMHO!