Revisiting AMOG Tactics

Readers have lately been requesting information on how to handle AMOGs (“Alpha Male Other Guy”, or “Alpha Male of the Group”, as it is known in the acronymic community). They want to know how to effectively neutralize direct male competition. A worthy subject, because everywhere else in the animal kingdom, males square off to win the rights to glorious pussy access.

But humans are more sophisticated than animals. Human males rarely compete *directly* for women, although we certainly do compete indirectly, from the barroom to the boardroom. Game mostly focuses on indirect male competition — i.e., wooing women with your superior seduction skills and bypassing any direct mano-a-mano confrontation — but there will be those times when you’ll have a high noon showdown with a very aggressive, brazen male interloper itching to horn in on your action.

The reason I don’t write much about AMOGs is a simple one — the SWPL-fied regions of the country (and this includes almost all big blue cities outside of the ghettoes) are not breeding grounds for confrontational men, especially outside of the office. While there are plenty of alphas rolling up with their Silicon Valley posse and think tank crew, these aren’t the kinds of men who relish an opportunity to get in your face and show off in front of a girl. So unless your stomping grounds are roadhouses situated off muddy roads in the deep south, you can go months at a time hitting on girls without having to deal with an AMOG in the traditional sense of the word.

Bouncers have situational confidence/value. They’re low on society’s status pole but king of the hill in the club. Does a girl’s brain realize “I’m in a shit-hole bar?” No lol Her brain just sees “other men supplicate to him, other girls want to fuck him, and his frame dominates everyone else’s”, so she’s attracted. These are the same traits game teaches you to demonstrate.

If you think she has to talk to the bouncer to be attracted, or that she likes the quarterback because of his sports skill or muscles, or that when a celebrity walks into the club all the girls snub every other guy because the celebrity is rich or a good actor or handsome, you’re still looking at surface-level shit and you don’t understand how the bouncer, quarterback and celebrity are demonstrating attractive traits or how their jobs/fame influence their display of those traits.

PUAs have already broken down how to directly compete with, tool, and take girls from these guys. We call it AMOG tactics:

The Chateau’s version of game is very toned down and socially friendly, which is ultimately a healthier outlook than seeing other guys as competition, but understanding the above two oldschool PUA posts allows you to take girls from the metaphorical quarterback.

But most guys don’t have a strong enough frame or enough balls to successfully use this stuff, which is good because most of them would get their asses kicked trying it lol.

The posts Yareally linked to may be old school, but they’re still as relevant as ever. It’s my opinion that Tyler Durden (the guy behind RSD Nation) wrote the definitive guides to handling AMOGs and destroying boyfriends. There are a lot of gems in those posts, and I suggest you read them over. For example:

The easy way to handle any alpha is to be polite to him, but act disinterested by his rap/accomplishments using tonality/body language (without coming off as patronizing/sarcastic) while simultaneously being charming to others around you. This will drop his perceived value and cause him to qualify himself to try and raise it back up. He can’t fight you or do shit like that, and he can’t move to insults, because you’ve been polite and in doing so he would be making himself look VERY BAD. The only tactic vs this is to walk away. If you reward him just enough to encourage further qualifying but not enough to make him feel validated again he will fall into line as beta in relation to you. […]

AMOG: How do you guys know eachother?
PUA: Her? I fucked her.
(Girl will go “aaaaaaaaah… hahahahah, I did NOT!!! But she’ll hit you and be giggling and start crawling all over you…). […]

AMOG: (showing signs that he wants to fight)
PUA: hahah, dude, are you like trying to pick a fight with me? hahahha.. ok ok hold up hold up.. wait a sec, we’ll do even better.. first… we’ll have an armwrestling competition.. then second.. we’ll do one armed pushups.. and last….. POSE-DOWN!!

(then you start flexing and go “ladies?”, and they start saying how you’re so strong, and the AMOG looks like a tool.. you’re tooling him, by making him seem like he’s trying too hard to impress the girls by showing them superiority). […]

AMOG: blah blah..
PUA: Dude, are you pissed that you’re rolling with all guys? […]

Once you get the guy to qualify himself to you in any way (like he tries to make friends), rather than being nice, IMMEDIATELY cut him out of the circle. Just cut him out. You’ll notice trying to SHUT YOUR GAME DOWN by bombarding you with logical questions. They’ll start pummeling you with logical stuff, so that you have to answer him the girls fall out of state. For me I found the solution was just to say “hey man, don’t get all scientific on me.. we’re here to have fun..” and then immediately start gaming the girls again. btw, if I’m out with any of my GFs at a club, and another guy hits on them, I use the same tactics on AMOGS to stop them.

These are pretty hardcore tactics, and they WILL work very well on the average man; i.e. your typical urban hipster, frat boy or poseur. But you would be tempting a physical or psychological beatdown if you tried these anti-AMOG tactics on one of the three following archetypes of men:

The big bruiser with the hair trigger impulse control. This guy will take anything you say as an insult, and he has the size and sloping forehead to put a serious hurt on.

The drunk. Alcohol releases all inhibitions, including those locked up in the fists. At least with the drunk you can easily avoid his wild swings.

The egotistic player-savant. The guy who is smart enough to know when he is being played, and smarter still to turn the tables on you. Beware this guy, for although he is a rare breed, he can tool you in front of a girl.

Those three exceptions aside, it behooves you to learn some common anti-AMOG tactics. If you chase skirt in any major city on a semi-regular basis, you will encounter an AMOG situation at least a few times per year.

I had a buddy who would dismiss AMOGs with this go-to line:

“Oh, I didn’t know she was your girlfriend. You two make a good match.”

It was particularly effective on guys who would enter his conversation uninvited and compliment the girl he was talking to. Never underestimate the sheer numbers of men who think that complimenting girls is a surefire way to get the girls interested. The beauty of my buddy’s line is that the girl would almost always disqualify herself to the interloper. “Oh, he’s not my boyfriend!” Then the AMOG would be left standing there having to come up with a witty, ego-salvaging rejoinder. Luckily, most men — most people — are mediocre intellects and don’t have the mental acuity to think fast on their feet.

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Great post, dealing with Amogs is a very important aspect of game. Tyler D has some of the best literature on Game ever written. Great to see him get some props for stealing a chick from a boyfriend.

That post he wrote is actually super old school, I wonder if he would even say the same thing now.

Anyways I rarely deal with guys coming up to steal my girl, in fact i don’t remember it happening.

My best Amog tactic:

I’ll routinely roll into a set with a guy and a girl if the girl looks bored and she is super hot.

Then, what I say is “HOW HAVE YOU BEEN”

Because i infer that I KNOW her from before, its socially unacceptable for him to ‘block’ me from talking to her. Thus giving me the opening I need to look better than him, using his interference, if it even comes, against him.

Super useful tactic when a chick is talking to a guy, and she gives you the save me eyes.

This is why sociopath’s often have the best game. A sociopath generally is unconcerned with the feelings of others and lacks the capacity for empathy. He also exhibits a persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.

In other words, sociopaths are often naturals by virtue of their personality disorder.

I don’t see the sociopathy. All I see is bad screenwriting and fantasy.

The witty conversationalist gets the girl in the movies. Life is not a movie.

Repartee is an important weapon in the arsenal, but posts like these overestimate its importance. They give off the impression that all you need to master a social dynamic is The Comedian’s Guide to Handling Hecklers.

What ever happened to the deep PUA-community truth that recognizes women do not respond to conversational content so much as tone and demeanor?

The old familiar truths are not dramatic or novel enough to constantly repeat in blog posts.

Just to avoid any confusion, i was referring to the second link in yareally’s post.
It contains stuff like this, designed to steal a girl from a needy boyfriend:

“”You’ve got to understand that for this guy you are his entire world. He cares about you so much, that everything else in the world is meaningless to him. You are his only source of pleasure, and without you he knows that…he’s nothing. You can’t blame him, he just doesn’t have anything else going for him, so he needs you.”

It’s meant to make the girl realize that her bf is needy, beta, not attractive.
Even if it seems badly written, i can testify under oath that this kind of cheesy wordy mindfucks have a great efficiency in game, even more than wit and humor.
And yes, you’re right, tone and demeanor are key. But this is “advanced” stuff, for guys who already got the fundamentals right.

Sociopathy relies in the fact of stealing another man’s wife or girlfriend. It’s one of the exquisite pleasures in a womanizer’s life. It is certainly an efficient evolutionary strategy, according to evo psych, your favorite discipline 🙂 but it is sociopathic nonetheless.

I see what he means: a list of “snappy answers to stupid questions” isn’t enough, and mentally scripting out how you WISH conversations will go just paralyzes you when they don’t. Attitude can save you when the script breaks down.

I would say the best attitude to have (and the hardest one to develop) is to not care if a fight breaks out. Seriously: whenever a male vs. male contest develops, there’s that little voice in the back of your head saying “what if he wants to fight?”

Just a few weeks of martial arts or boxing lessons can make a big difference, because you won’t be quite so nervous about “getting into a fight.” Boxing more so than most martial arts because boxing helps you get past the big psychological hurdles of 1) getting hit (in the face, most likely) and 2) making yourself hit someone else.

Spend a few evenings at boxing lessons, let some Mexican guy punch you in the face a few times, punch the Mexican guy back, and you won’t be nervous because some fratboy’s feeling aggressive at the bar.

Ripp wrote: “Since you have the audacity to denounce tactics written by Tyler Durden, perhaps you can share with the group some of your own? Please also include specifics on tone and demeanor. Or maybe share with us just one personal story of how you overcame an AMOG?”

L’audace, l’audace, toujours l’audace.

So this one time, me, Jack Nicholson, Chesty Puller, and Shaquille O’Neal were hanging out playing cards ….

“They give off the impression that all you need to master a social dynamic is The Comedian’s Guide to Handling Hecklers.

What ever happened to the deep PUA-community truth that recognizes women do not respond to conversational content so much as tone and demeanor?”

You don’t understand what’s going on. The “witty comebacks” and junk in his post aren’t for the girl’s benefit, they’re for the GUY. Guys are logical, we respond to content in situations like that, but girls are watching for the emotion and value battle taking place.

So what happens is this:

PUA: “Nice shirt bro!”
AMOG: “…”
GIRL: (no opinion)

PUA: “I had one just like that in junior high it’s cool you still have yours lol”
AMOG: “huh? but, no I just got this it’s new and–”
GIRL: (AMOG is qualifying to PUA so PUA must be higher value)

PUA: “no it’s cool man, it looks good on you, mine just emphasized how out of shape I am. Yours shows off your muscles like crazy, you’re like He-Man dude, that’s awesome, you must spend all your time at the gym!”
AMOG: “what? um thanks? no I get out a lot, I’m not like those juice monkey–”
GIRL: (AMOG still qualifying, PUA self-depreciating his own looks so he clearly has so much value he doesn’t care if he impresses us, etc.)

The end result is that the girl is attracted and the AMOG is tooled. But she doesn’t care what you were saying. You could have said “purple monkey buttfuzz” as long as it gets the same qualifying reaction out of the AMOG.

That’s why to get rid of guys at the bar you ask them logical boring questions, as guys we instinctively want to respond with logical answers and that bores the girls and the girls lose interest, then you spike their emotions/hamster and take them.

P.S. Go out more. Try to take girls from guys. You’ll see it all play out in front of you the way his “imaginary conversations” play out. Not in the actual words, but in the jist of the emotional content and the way the value battle goes back and forth.

It’s actually really exciting to see two good AMOGs go at it when you know what’s happening. The same way someone who studies chess in-depth sees a brilliant chess game playing out where others might just see “that game with the knights and pawns”.

I find nothing to disagree with you about, except for the level of emphasis. Which is why the context of my quote was:

“Repartee is an important weapon in the arsenal, but posts like these overestimate its importance. They give off the impression that all you need to master a social dynamic is The Comedian’s Guide to Handling Hecklers.”

In fact, I’d say you’ve described the phenomenon very well. It comports with the higher-alpha tactic of enlisting the interloper as ally rather than unnecessarily creating (and thereafter neutralizing) a foe, which plays too much into the frame of the ballsy guy’s attack: he is essentially daring you, “See how audacious I am? I forced this insider to engage me on my level.”

We differ as a matter of degree, not kind. The question becomes, however, what is the more practical advice for inexperienced conversationalists? I’m suggesting that game recruits adopt the highest level frame and constantly work toward making it second nature — man as master of all he surveys, neither over- nor under-reacting to threats, real or imagined, befriending those he can, neutralizing those he must. The confidence that comes with knowing “I can handle this guy” cannot be built on scripted witticisms. It has to be organically generated, and that is a side effect of proper frame. When choosing a point of emphasis, technique is important but frame is vital.

I agree, seeing two lions engaged at the highest level is “actually really exciting.” Being one of those lions is even more fun. But once you’re up in that rarefied air, two men will realize they have more in common than not. And while the rivalry must still exist, it becomes a mutually respectful rivalry that, best case scenario, turns into alliance.

The best artistic expression of this phenomenon is (no, not John Cusack) Shakespeare’s Coriolanus. I think a new movie interpretation with Ralph Fiennes and Gerard Butler is coming out soon.

[yep:]

A thousand welcomes!
And more a friend than e’er an enemy;
Yet, Marcius, that was much. Your hand: most welcome!

Dealing with AMOGs is vital if you’re in PUA mode, but if you’re not looking for a pump and dump, AMOGs can change from competitor to colleague for the better. One of my business partners is a previous AMOG who became a friend since I wasn’t looking to snatch his girl.

Game helps in way more than just picking up random sluts at bars — it helps with dealing with employers and co-workers, friends and family, and your wife and kids. Those are situations where you won’t face AMOGs typically, but being confident in yourself will allow others to admire you, even adore you, with no sexual goal in the needs department.

Agreed. Most guys start with surface-level game that gets them laid. Unfortunately, they usually stop right there. They don’t internalize game so that they can use it in other contexts. Many of the same principles for dealing with AMOGs apply to worlds of business and politics. If you focus just on getting laid (which means you’ve demonstrated a mastery of game), you’re not living up to your potential.

Game will lead you to the holy trinity – Charm, Money & Power – but only if you’re willing to become that which you claim to be.

And that’s my issue with even worrying about the AMOG when it comes to women.

1. I don’t (generally) pick up women in bars. I let women pick me up when I’m out doing real things versus drinking. The most recent women I’ve added to the long term stable don’t drink even weekly because they have other responsibilities.

2. If I do meet a gal in a bar, 9 times out of 10 she has a tattoo, and I absolutely am disgusted with tats on women. Attention whore much?

3. Every AMOG I’ve met in a bar happens to also be a loser — a DJ, a musician, an unemployed graphic designer, the bouncer, the promoter. I know some of these guys who are now in their 40s (I owned a club in my early 20s, mind you), and they’re still losers, but still nailing the “hot” bar skeezes.

4. I like a woman who can dedicate a part of her life’s schedule to me. If a gal is out and about drinking on a Tuesday, it probably means she’s doing it Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. No time to take care of Papa D, so I’m not going to give her the time of day.

5. I’m STD adverse. Sure, I hook up, but I tend only to hook up with women worth hooking up with. Since women do talk, this adds to my reputation as a picky guy. I’ve gone out with some gorgeous losers, and refused them sex. Some repeatedly, forever. When they bitch about it to other women, it increases the new gals’ interests as to why I didn’t hook up with Jane the Hottie. Usually it’s because I know Jane the Hottie hooked up with the skanky AMOG running the front door. Gross.

6. I prefer to be the AMOG among intelligent, driven, successful and decent guys, but I am more than willing to be second on the totem pole because I’ve learned all my life from the AMOGs in it. The real AMOG in a group — the most alpha of alphas, is the guy who will share his secrets, his failures and his knowledge with the next generation.

Like A.B. says, confronting and neutralizing is good, but co-opting is better. Top-level mastery sublimates primitive pissing contests into true pack-leader assertion. You win the lesser conflict (which may be physical) by elevating it to a higher conflict (which is social).

Neturalizing rather than co-opting competition is a common theme on this blog and elsewhere. Pick-up advice is too skewed in the direction of lone-wolf dynamics rather than pack dynamics. True alpha behavior does not just focus on gina tingles and the effects on women; it focuses on the overall social interplay, which includes other men. The alpha orders the chaotic community under his commanding presence.

Deal with these conflicts by elevating them into an area of leadership in which they cannot compete. If you don’t know how to befriend a sloppy, hotheaded instinct-alpha sniffing around your pack, you are too vag-o-centric. A good example is the Swingers scene where Sue attempts resolving a challenge directly (with a gun), while the true alpha Trent co-opts the challengers (the technique is not shown, but the true-to-life results are).

Mike: “What are they doing here?” [“They” being their former attackers now playing video hockey in their apartment]

This obviously calls for a higher level of mastery, but it should be the end-goal for any alpha aspirant.

The snarky cutesy sarcastic verbal-jousting suggested by Tyler Durden actually lowers you to the interloper’s level in a subtle way. Arm wrestling? The obvious joke doesn’t conceal your essential wussitude. It declares that you are about avoiding escalation and conflict, rather than addressing it squarely.

We cite movies because 1) they are accessible to everyone and 2) they make a clearer point than the mixed muddle of real-world examples. I commended Durden’s commentary above for that reason. They are not flawed as didactic tools, just limited.

We don’t have an anecdote of the week like some Robert Evans of game. Nor does he, nor do you, I suspect.

We do not fancy ourselves the Second Coming of Mystery Moskowitz (or whatever monstrum in nomine he so dorkily rechristened himself out of); in fact specialists like that are grotesque half-men, like young gymnast girls so dedicated to their sport that they delay puberty. We admire their accomplishments for what they are, which is maybe one-tenth of a life lived in full. We forget this in a forum so obsessively dedicated to a single subject.

I am happy to see my lifelong intuitions about the war of the sexes articulated well and without fear in places like these. I am satisfied confirming their truth through experience and metaphor and art, and thereby adding to the treasury of knowledge for other men to use as they may. I encourage everyone to post real-life examples of how game has worked in their lives. Testify to the faith, brothers! Can I get a witness! But you’re a fool to think this constitutes the chief part, or even the most important part, of the credibility of game.

Most examples that even the most active PUAs can cite will come across as mundane to the point of irrelevance. That’s not because we are blowhards and exaggerators, or hypocrites speaking out of school. That’s because — and listen closely here — life does not arrange itself into perfect just-so stories.

Moreover, the fabulist tendency of locker room talk makes Field Reporting not the most reliable assessment of a person’s value to the conversation. In fact, those who are least given to Big Fish Stories are usually your most reliable narrators. They have nothing to prove to a Mr. Clarence F. Ripp from Youngstown, Ohio. Your obsession-compulsion about the cred of everyone you read tells us how insecure you are about your own.

Tyler’s tactics aren’t meant for handling your social circle of weak beta males and vague AMOGs to get the average cute girl that a couple quiet guys have a crush on and that you see every week when your group is hanging out at the bar together.

Just be a cool chill guy for that, like you describe.

His tactics are meant for walking into exclusive high-end nightclubs as a complete nobody and taking done up popular socially savvy super-confident chicks off of guys who buy them trips to Europe and invite them to after-parties at their mansions in Beverly Hills and are connected with half the city’s nightlife etc. These guys will try to tool you on your clothes, money, job, travel, etc.

They’re also meant for taking the hottest girls in the club who are surrounded by meat-head jocks buying them drinks all night and scaring off their competition with headlocks and aggression. These guys will try to physically tool you.

If you’re going for the lone 2 or 3 set that’s hanging out at the bar not really chit-chatting with anyone, awesome, you’ll get girls out of it with way less risk and there’ll be some decent ones in the batch.

But if you haven’t run into actual AMOGs, then you haven’t left the bar at 2am with the hottest girl on your arm and tried to flag down a cab. 🙂

YaReally wrote: “His tactics are meant for walking into exclusive high-end nightclubs as a complete nobody and taking done up popular socially savvy super-confident chicks off of guys who buy them trips to Europe and invite them to after-parties at their mansions in Beverly Hills and …” etc., etc.

Right. His lessons are narrowly focused on a hyper-specific situation. I was speaking more broadly. Life is more than a parody of James Bond at the casino.

Hey, you got me. What can I say? Pulling off a jewel heist is fun to think about and do and then exaggerate and brag about, but I won’t kid you: it’s not the focus of my life. If I spy an opportunity, I’ll take it with the skills I have; but I’m not seeking out a big game safari to impress internet blabberers with my collection of rhino heads. Those ashen-faced dudes at game workshops strike me as repulsively sorry creatures, completely unaware of the rigid limits that exist beyond their expensively purchased, contrived “frame.”

I would think that most readers here are more interested in applicable advice, not just long-shot chances at the high-risk/high-reward holy grails of game. Or maybe they still dream about being an NFL walk-on, too. Each to his own.

You’re falling into a bad rhetorical trap, though. The world that exists outside of your tinseltown imagination is not by definition a “social circle of weak beta males and vague AMOGs.” Part of the lazy critic’s M.O. is to imagine anyone who disagrees with him out to be the precise target for his counterpoint.

What, say, Neil Strauss did (or what some Canadian Owen Cook does) is not rocket science. If that impresses you — or worse, if that’s what you assume must impress everyone interested in game — then you’ve consigned yourself to a very limited field of expertise against which I find it pointless to argue.

“Part of the lazy critic’s M.O. is to imagine anyone who disagrees with him out to be the precise target for his counterpoint.”

“but I’m not seeking out a big game safari to impress internet blabberers with my collection of rhino heads. Those ashen-faced dudes at game workshops strike me as repulsively sorry creatures”

Are you reading what you write? lol

“His lessons are narrowly focused on a hyper-specific situation.”

It’s not hyper-specific if you don’t want it to be. That’s like saying a boxer trains for only a hyper-specific situation. But the boxer goes to gyms, signs up for fights, watches fights on TV, and overall trains a lot. It’s not a hyper-specific situation for him because he puts himself in that environment. You not wanting to get off the couch and put down the Doritos and hit a punching bag takes nothing away from his art.

“but I’m not seeking out a big game safari to impress internet blabberers with my collection of rhino heads.”

How about seeking out a big game safari to live up to your full potential as a man for yourself? How about striving to be the best version of yourself and crafting your life into something better than average normal people settle for? How about wanting to be the best you can be in all areas of life?

You, King A, are a dabbler. Your comments and overall attitude scream it:

All you do is piddle around in something to get enough experience to wax philosophical on it and argue with people about it, and then you bail. Yellow belt in Karate (train till you’re a blackbelt), “learning verbal game is too hard for new people” (go out and get embarrassed by fucking up some conversations and learning to take social pressure), “mastering pickup is too hyper-specific and sad” (seek out and hit on hotter girls), “it’s not plausible to be witty in stressful situations” (take an improv class and go out more), “that’s too many balls to juggle in the air at once” (train enough that you gain unconscious competance and you’re no longer juggling balls the way you’re no longer thinking “breathe in, now breathe out”).

You are completely satisfied with being mediocre and avoiding any tough challenges while rationalizing that you’ve mastered “enough” of it to “get it”, and most of what you do seems to be done purely for the benefit of appearances and coming across like you’re well-versed and knowledgable in a variety of subjects.

But just like I can tell from your posts that you have no game and don’t go out and regularly pick up girls, a Karate blackbelt would be able to tell you don’t really know how to fight if you were on a blog about fighting and arguing what happens during a fight.

You are inexperienced with pickup and gorgeous women and it radiates, but the worst part is that overall you appear to have surrounded yourself in walls of limiting beliefs, rather than addressing challenges and taking them on.

I hope that one day you try chipping away at some of those walls, because every man has a ton of potential in them but men with your attitude and beliefs are people who end up wasting that potential.

I don’t resent you the way you can’t help but resent me, which is odd since you don’t know me and must basically fabricate the parts I have deliberately left ambiguous. But at the same time I get your plight: I’ve been where you’ve been, while you apparently haven’t been where I’ve been. I say apparently because everything is ultimately a guess on the internet, no matter how earnestly one testifies on his own behalf. We are known here only by what we say here.

The limited wisdom you have on offer — heavily experienced-based but light on the reflection — tells me you are still generating the formative events that haven’t yet yielded a coherent, consistent modus vivendi. That takes years and deliberate study.

My return advice for you is to consider the world beyond the narrow, hyperfocused purview that initiated this blog. It’s hard for white men to do, since that’s what we’re good at: intense specialization and vivisection until our subject yields every drop of wisdom it once had before we slayed it to analyze it. We murder to understand.

I don’t know how else to tell you my interests don’t coincide with yours. Naturally I believe my aims to be superior, but we don’t have to go that far to at least agree they are different. So your advice, while seemingly good-intentioned, doesn’t apply to me. And no, I’m not going to strain to prove to you just how my experiences back-up my wisdom, or all the many instances in which I’ve already internalized your Self Help platitudes. Life is too short. I’m just going to put the wisdom out there. If you don’t want to partake, don’t.

If it is your deepest desire to label every comment I post with “KJ,” I can’t and wouldn’t stop you. Just seems like a pointless task to me. I would rather you return the gesture of arm’s-length respect, take what’s useful and ignore the rest as I do with your posts, rather than making a fetish out of wanting to improve those with whom you disagree.

How do you deal with other people laughing at you from the AMOG’s direct or indirect insults? I take a unreactive frame and say cool man when the AMOG is directly insulting me. This works great when noone is laughing because the AMOG gets angry youre brushing him off like a fool, and if he keeps insulting you he looks like a tryhard.

I’ve noticed this doesnt work too well when other people laugh at the AMOG’s insults. It’s as if he is getting support and my social status is dropping anyway. No matter how correctly I handle his AMOG attempts if other people are laughing it appears to cancel it out.

I forgot about that movie. I should watch it again sometime, I always liked the fact that Damon’s character was calling the gal from jail. That’s top notch.

“Cool man” is a bad response — you really want a retort. If the AMOG starts going off on you in any way, you need to subjugate him in this case verbally.

AMOG: blah blah blah with you

You: “When did we go from being cool to not being cool? Are we cool?”

If the ladies are watching — and they’re watching — you just not only diffused the asshole, but you also brought him under your wing. It’s like offering compliments to other guys: it shows women subconsciously that you’re in a position to offer that congratulations. A guy who is lower on the totem pole can’t judge another man’s works, but a guy who is higher can.

Of course, one thing that hasn’t been mentioned enough is that often times, the AMOG is merely a beta who has alcohol-induced confidence. When that happens, all of his mommy and daddy issues are going to come out.

I’ve had interactions with beer-strong betas who were obviously getting their rent paid by mommy and daddy. It was obvious to me because of their fake alpha mannerisms, like the baby lion barking at the gazelle. In the cases of alcohol creating a tiny monster, it’s best to just diffuse by making all friendly like, providing an ownership quotient over the jackass, and then integrating him back into the pack that you now own through general guy behavior of laughter and even false bro-ism (which you can disprove to the ladies with your eyebrows alone).

It’s a fine line, any which way you look at it. At some point, YOU are going to be the AMOG and it’s going to be the newbie alpha treading on your territory, so be well practiced from both sides of the fence. Be a uniter, not a divider.

YOU: “Thanks, I’ve always heard that gay men have the best style. [Turn back towards the women] Right ladies?”

Women pretty much worship the style sense that gay men have. If you say the foregoing with confidence, there is minimal risk that your perceived masculinity will be diminished by associating yourself with “gay” style. In fact, you might be seen as even more confident, because many men are afraid of such association (and have poor sense of style).

Im not a fan of opinion openers, unless there is an interesting debate to be settled. but yeah, yours works. i prefer mine because i lead on my own terms and the quicker i can neutralize a homophobic slur artist the better for all concerned.

The trick is that with your response, now you’re starting a back and forth fight. You’re “zinging” him but you’re also prolonging the fight. Now that you’ve insulted him he HAS to come up with an insult to insult you back to protect his pride, and if he’s dumb (which he probably is) he’s going to fall back on aggression and now you’ve just gotten your head punched in.

With the response I wrote, it’s self-depreciating and takes the wind out of his sales. What can he respond? “ya see? I SAID you were gay!!!11” You’ve neutralized the back and forth game by agreeing with him. You can even turn him into a friend if you get him laughing with your agreeing/exaggerating. That’s how you befriend angry guys and cool the situation down.

I’m not so sure about these. I remember Tyler Durden came across as underhanded in “The Game” (but then again, he’s the stock-villain of the book). Even if the pen-portraits of him using these tactics in that book are an exaggeration, the tactics themselves do seem kinda weaselly, and would probably be perceived as such by any group observing them, including the females. Of course, a lot depends on context- what the AMOG is doing, how aggressive, whether actually interloping or just taking part in the conversation. But far better imho just to be a mensch- be friendly, acknowledge him, keep a strong frame rather than react in this sort of passive-aggressive way to whatever he is saying or doing. I think any chicks observing that kind of interaction would be more impressed than by the “hahaha, are you picking a fight with me?” kind of thing.

Tyler Durden trained his shit in massive sausage fests of players and AMOGs fighting over girls at 2am outside the bars. Like, you’re pulling your girl by the hand and 5 alpha guys are trying to get her attention and pull her away and tool you and such while you’re trying to hail down a cab to get outta there. Your girl’s all worked up and horny and wants to get fucked by SOMEONE, and she’ll take those guys as much as she’ll take you, if you can’t tool them and get out of there.

He used to purposely try to take girls from alpha player types at the club, just to see learn how the guys would tool him so he could use those tactics himself.

Most guys going to the SWPL bars will never have to deal with that kind of aggressive AMOGging so most of it is overkill. It’s way better to just make friends and most of the guys at bars these days are so beta and lame that they’ll be dying to be your friend and buy you drinks and shit.

Here’s a video of an oldschool PUA in a quick AMOG battle. He fries the girl’s circuits at the end and they run off, but watch the way the black guys try to use their voice and “hold court” and how the skinny little PUA guy just turns their words around or ignores them and, once he’s hooked the girls, just completely shuts them out.

It all happens in the blink of an eye but it’s there if you know what to look for.

They walked away because their buying temperatures shot through the roof too high and too fast and he fried their circuits. If you spike a girl’s attraction hard and fast enough she’ll get to a point like these girls where they can’t even respond, it’s all just shrieks and giggles. The one girl pulls the other away because girls try to protect eachother from having sex with random guys and she can see her temp is through the roof. That’s why the PUA laughs at the end, he wasn’t expecting the Powerpuff Girls thing to blow them sky-high. Odds are those girls have some in-joke about the Powerpuff Girls for it to register that hard.

It’s actually a bad thing because as you saw, the girls run off. That’s why we call it frying the circuits. You have to spike a bit and then slow down and let them come off the attraction high, pushing and pulling.

Quit being a KJ and go out more. Use some basic game to spike girls attraction as fast as possible for a month and you’ll run into this concept in action once you get the hang of it.

im not a PUA, nor do i aspire to be (what i got right now is working just fine). i make girls laugh like this, but the difference is they stick around. that said, i don’t look like an E london warlock tramp either (which was actually why that girl got rescued). as for ‘getting out more’, if you’re gonna talk at me about social skills (which is in and of itself amusing since you have no idea about my social situation), don’t lecture me about the intricacies of teenage girl circuitry. i don’t care.

“It’s actually a bad thing because as you saw, the girls run off”

yeah, and this was my original point that you are apparently writing a field rebuttal on.

Student, don’t take YaReally’s “KJ” personally. It’s a just a tic with him, like saying “umm” or “uhhh” or “y’know?” a lot.

I think it has something to do with the K and the J being right next to each other on the keyboard, and it just spasms off his fingers like a Tourette reflex.

Wait. That means … hang on now … YaReally is using a keyboard to habitually denounce keyboard jockeying. Is that … even … possible?

“E london warlock tramp” lolz

Seriously, I don’t get it. I’m trying to see why these minor social encounters are held up as great examples to emulate. Did the presence of the camera mean anything? Maybe? And the self-interpretations of what’s going on, intercut in editing like an old-timey movie, are so deluded and aggrandizing that, by the time the lens pans around to the broke-ass birdman I was inspired to visceral pity.

Their “buying temperatures” are “through the roof,” guv’nah. That’s why all the women flee. He’s too sexy for them.

Really. We’re just on different planets. It’s like the larpers have taken over the “seduction community.”

KA, agreed. this is why im not a PUA. im wise to the basic theories, but its just this entire ueber-nerd milieu and commercial hustle that i find so off-putting. if i had a dollar for every fucking star wars reference made on this blog alone id be halfway to paying off my student debt.

i just found it funny that he told me to go out more. I’ve hung out w actors that he probably pays $30 bucks to go see on his date nights. models who he approaches only hours after researching every last tactic to plan for every possible contingency. could go on but suffice it to say, it is to laugh!

Once I was on a first date, and some muscle-head twice my size decided to put me in a headlock at the bar for 5-10 seconds, even though we had barely exchanged any words at all. Afterward he chuckled it off like we were “just joking around” so I acted the same way, having no better ideas. My date must have seen it, but never mentioned it, so neither did I and the seduction moved forward.

But what could I have done? Any ideas what to do when a stronger man forces a physical exchange that don’t make you get your ass kicked or look like a pussy?

sorry to hear that bro. i am a fairly big guy and in my experience the big men are generally mellow and tame because we have nothing to prove on a physical level. its usually the shorter guys that get all nippy chihuahua due to their napoleon complex. of course, there are meatheads out there and the insecure types will assert their brawn to compensate for their numerous other insecurities.

in that situation, you should have stood up for yourself. don’t escalate, but show a willingness to use force. don’t ever let a man tool you like that and then laugh it off when he tries to act like he was just playing around. when you laughed along with him you submitted completely and ur girl noted this.

the quickest way to stop a bully is to stand up to them. sometimes that involves losing a fight. if the bullying is psychological, either ignore, walk or engage in psy-ops if you’re able to do so (wit and intelligence). if they get physical, respond in kind. that said, men will give plenty of (obvious) non-physical warnings before an altercation gets physical. recognize the warnings and decide whether its worth it to stand your ground or walk away. there’s no shame in walking from a man who wants to get in a fight for *no good reason*. but never let a man push you around though, especially physically. if a woman does not feel physically safe around you, she will not even consider sleeping with you.

last point, and this one is important: one’s tendency to be bullied reflects the strength of their mental frame. there are numerous studies that show bitter, angry, depressed or otherwise negative-energy having types are very likely to be even randomly attacked by similar types. note that martial artists rarely get physical outside their studios. the reason for this is their zen mental frame and physical confidence gets subcommunicated to the outside world and hostile types recognize this and choose not to fuck w them.

Tangentially related; a big reason why SWPL girls these days are so attracted to “Bad Boys” of every degenerate stripe, is that they have subconsciously picked up on their dad instinctively submitting to these lowlifes in daily interaction.

Like when he walks out of is way, sheepishly looking down, as he passes a pack of teen hoodlums or gangstas at the mall; only making some weak derogatory remark about them once he is out of their reach, safely ensconced in his car o the way back to his suburban home.

While undoubtedly well intentioned, as getting pummeled or stabbed to death is unlikely to be in ones children’s best interest; doing so also makes one indirectly at least partly responsible, for ones daughter becoming defiled and/or pregnant by a gang banger at 15.

This effect is one more reason why government in civilized places actively encourages regular, productive people to carry firearms, and champions “stand your ground” type laws..

On a larger, social scale, it is also why civilized societies tend to be extremely exclusionary; only admitting physical access to those who bring something valuable with them, while leaving the rabble to starve outside heavily armed and protected gates. And, again, why entrepreneurs in civil destruction, which is the exact people who rise to power in lynch mob style “democracies”, work so hard to “integrate” all manners of trash under one security umbrella, promising every worthless parasite “equal access” to civilized institutions none of them will ever make a single positive contribution towards maintaining; as long as he/she casts a vote for them.

I’ve found people don’t fuck with me when my T levels are high and likewise treat me with less regard when they are low. Same goes for friends, strangers, lovers, family, everyone. No words need to be spoken, they can pick up on it through body language. (and possibly scent?)

A weekend booze and junk food binge has left my T levels in a slump this week and it is reflected in how people have been treating me the last couple days. Less respect and deferment.

Calm and chill, even if you’re still in the headlock: “woaaahh hey there big fella. Buy me dinner before you cop a feel like that! Gay bar’s up the street man!” and laugh it off. He’ll back off because you didn’t freak out (bullies pick on people who react in a bullied manner to them).

It’s all about keeping your cool and being unreactive. The second you react angrily or show frustration he slaps you on the back and goes “I was just JOKIN’ man lol lighten up” and you’re tooled.

I consider myself pretty big, north of 6 ft, got my share of muscle… But I had my ass kicked in front of a target by a huge klitscko-type guy. It wasn’t even AMOG related, it was over some BS that one of my buddies got into.

First, shit hurts. Always try to avoid a confrontation with a bigger guy, especially a klitschko-type one.
Second, i didn’t get laid. I delivered a good fight, and we were separated before the unavoidable KO, but there’s something into losing a fight that definitely dries up a pussy. I picked up on that, it messed up my game and i moved on.

So yeah, as student says, stay zen, but always stand up for yourself, and if things get ugly, back off if you objectively think that you don’t stand a chance.
If you’re too weak, bulk up and learn some martial art. Otherwise, feel free to kick some ass if the guy deserves it (and if it’s a safe environment, better humiliated and sexless than dead).
Because assuming that your game is tight, winning a *necessary* fight may grant you a hot wet sexing session, animal kingdom style.

I’m a pretty short and small guy, but I was cocky enough not to get bullied when I was younger. Still, when I was in a bar in my early 20s, a huge dude started screwing with me, and it got down to fisticuffs (and bar cues, and broken glassware). I lost a tooth (still gone to this day), he ended up in the hospital (mostly due to me fighting extremely dirty). Oddly enough, we’re friends now, so many years later.

Every man needs to experience jail for one night after a bar fight. Hell, it’s even in the DMV test for men.

Since then, I’ve always made sure I’m faster than most guys, and I tend to stay more sober than most in bar scenes. On the rare occasion that some meathead wants to fuck with me, typically taking a step forward and treating him like you’re stronger CAN diffuse the situation — especially if you do it slowly, quietly, coldly and lock eyes. It doesn’t hurt to take some Krav Maga courses for a year, in fact I recommend it — the $5000 you’ll give up for training will pay itself back in a ripped body and really strong core.

Never let a man get his hands on you. Slap him with your open palm and call him faggot if you have to, but once he gets his hands on you, the fight is generally over — it’s really hard to break a headlock. I’d like to hear more about how the altercation started, maybe we can figure out what you may have done wrong to get stuck in the situation in the first place.

swift elbow to the gut or face if you can manage it. “hey man what the fuck, I was just kiddin” … “yeah me too, sorry did i hurt you”. or if he tries to fight you just act like a crazy mofo who wants nothing more than to get punched in the face.

I agree that fighting (or posturing to fight) would have been the best response if there were any chance I could have held my own, but this wasn’t the case. This guy would have mopped the floor with me. I took my chances that she didn’t see, or wouldn’t care. (I did end up getting the bang on the 2nd date, for what it’s worth)

The long term answer is obviously to hit the gym and become stronger, so this won’t happen as often.

I guess what I’m really asking for is a short term answer: Is there a better way to diffuse such a situation without looking like a tool?

I read the first link, and whole done of those are good, they’re not all the solid. The one you quoted is good, but that’s only going too work if the female is already heavy into you, in which case you could get by without being a douche. If your game isn’t tight, something like that will only make the other guy’s job easier.

Same with some of the others would also backfire. Like ”we want to hear your pitch, really”. I’d just completely ignore the guy (maybe with a subtle pause for effect), start introducing myself to his lady friends like he isn’t there. The $100 one? What happens when a guy says ” ok, lets go get some drinks ladies, I guess X (you) is buying?”

No, nothing works better than having class, style, and being able to control a conversation. For the class and style part, I suggest a read of the G manifesto.

Such a fascinating scenario. Never before in the history of male interaction have males been unable to exercise their social, political, economic, or physical power directly. All of the high risks associated with inter-male conflict are reduced to a game of wit and poise, of which the victor is undoubtedly the best improviser.

Entertaining as this game is for us players, we must realize that the rewards are quite real. It is the equivalent of deciding national lines of demarcation by victory in a video game. Absurd as this sounds, this is exactly what Game has done; turned a very risky male competition into a children’s game where anyone can participate. And participate they shall, for there is no other male endeavor as rewarding or as simple as Game.

Finance, art, science; these are gargantuan undertakings which require huge human capital in the form of talent and perseverance. Game requires talent, determination, and luck in equal measure, but is above all else a numbers game. The sheer time input required for game success is formidable, and substantially rules out any significant contribution to civilization. Thus, we have decoupled the fuel tank of civilization from its engine, such that there is no male reward for investing in civilization. Game is an end in itself, and higher pursuits are trivial for they provide no comparable satisfaction.

Knowing this, is it surprising that all the tales of societal collapse in literature are preceded with unrestrained hedonism? And the canary continues to sing in the coal mine…

I don’t believe that you actually believe that we will forget how to run the internet, or stop running the internet. I don’t believe that you believe that technological progress is going to halt or reverse. Because of game or for any reason short of catastrophic human depopulation.

It is important that we distinguish participation rate in society from a catastrophic collapse. As men abandon long working hours and turn to Game to satisfy their sexual needs, their participation rate in society will continue to plummet. Men will work less, earn less, and pay less taxes. This will lead to erosion of the tax base and fiscal instability for their host nation. Refer to Europe, Japan, and soon the USA. All western nations suffer from this plague (in different stages of malignancy), and the causal events which cascade to national insolvency begin with the rise of Game as the only worthwhile male pursuit. Unfortunately, the end will come with a whimper not a bang.

If game were to reach a saturation point, a point where most men knew and could apply some decent game fundamentals, do you think social and economic power would again became the major factors they were in the past? Or would things merely become a “game arms race”/red queen race?

After all, if everyone had at least some game, wouldn’t it lose it’s effectiveness? I always viewed part of the reason for the effectiveness of game in modern society is the fact that most men are pussy betas. Someone with game provides such a stark contrast to those who don’t. Take away the contrast and the game becomes less, right?

It is unlikely that most men can become even barely proficient at Game. It is a very difficult artistic endeavor, similar to professional acting. Saturation of Game is not necessary for societal malfunction; all that is needed is for men to realize that their auxiliary pursuits are meaningless to women. Men’s career accomplishments, bank accounts and net worth, are of no consequence to the western female who’s needs are thoroughly satisfied by the state. Men will then drop out of the economic game and pursue females directly (with or without Game), or drop out of society altogether and forego both the economic rat race and the female Battle Royale. This has already begun, and its effects can be seen in most western countries.

Again its just entering wit into the game that is effective in adding new alpha credentials. Game is an engine that uses wit as a fuel for attraction. Incidentally if you are being outwitted, the opposite is a good thing to do. Strong postures and implying the funny guy is a clown etc. Change the battle field to one you can win.

Always think you are better than every woman you ever meet. Its something I actually believe BTW. What does a hot babe really do anyway? Its always on your mind. If you think why would I be with someone like her? Then you are predisposed to have the right ego saving frame of mind when you respond.

What are you going to do? Theres a monolith of law and cultural zeitgeist that makes it rewarding to fuck lots of girls and not much else. A man might love his country, but he’ll always love pussy more.

<blockquote<This guy will take anything you say as an insult, and he has the size and sloping forehead to put a serious hurt on.

Whats that with the “sloping forehead” thing? Is it an indicator of agressiveness?

Among whites, sloping forehead is a particular trait of the dinaric sub-race (wich includes plenty of Austrians, North Italians [romans], serbs, croatians etc), along with high stature.

I read alot about phisical anthropology (I am a dinaric myself), but never seen any mention to a possible violent temper in this type (wich is not absurd, considering that those fellows in the Balkans are quick to violence).

I’ve been doin this shit for years in bars and I can count the number of times some dude tried to “amog” me on one hand.

I would say it’s more common to be amoged by your afc social circle friends than strangers. When you get really good at cold approach it looks to an outsider like you’ve been friends for a long, long time.

If you get amoged within a group set approach you’re usually fucked because the girls will look to the guy with the greatest social value. That’s usually the guy they know the best–their friend. So if he thinks you’re cool, you’re in.

I always analyse the set and try to approach the alpha first. Sometimes that’s even a chick. If it’s a guy and you win him over, you should be ok as long as you aren’t still a miscallibrated noob.

This post is low-alpha stuff. Fine as far as it goes, but it’s not thinking far enough outside the box. (Or circle. See below.)

Peace through strength. You prevent conflict by signaling a credible capacity for conflict. You don’t end war by dismantling your military. You do it by having a demonstrably bigger army than the other guy.

The advice above asks us to deploy clever diplomats rather than gun-boats. With regard to physical or even overt-verbal conflict, you have to be prepared for ultimate escalation. Not that it will occur often in a civilized milieu, but your unpreparedness will be written all over your body-language, and your unconscious motive will be to flee the test rather than pass it.

It’s like carrying a concealed gun. You won’t have to use it in 999 out of 1000 instances, but knowing you have access to it helps you endure with aplomb the fifty or so close-brushes that do occur.

I’m not recommending you pack heat (though all men should; metrosexualized alphas are soft in this regard). I’m recommending you acquire the skills and tools necessary so that you have a full panoply of options available when conflict occurs: you instinctively embrace and deal with it, rather than avoid or flee it. This is the goal of martial arts training, as any trainer will tell you — not to simply turn your body into a weapon so much as prepare your mind for recognizing the necessity of using (or eschewing the use of) the weapon.

Bruce Lee put it well, as reported in Zen and the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams:

“When your opponent is inside your circle and you cannot or will not retreat any farther, you must fight. But until then, you should always maintain your control and distance.”

As my [Hyams’] martial arts ability increased, so did my confidence. I was able to stand calmly back and let an opponent wear himself out with feints or attempts at intimidation because I was confident that, if necessary, I could defeat him.

I soon had an opportunity to translate this attitude to my business life….

Not everyone is going to take a martial arts course or wants to get into bar fights and end up paralyzed for life because their head bounced off a bar stool or charged with manslaughter because the other guy’s did, over some retarded macho shit in a bar.

What you’re saying about being prepared being written in your body language and the other person picking up on it is true, but that actually gets into a bigger concept called “frame control”. The frame you’re advising is basically “This can go to a fight, and if it does, I’m going to win it.”

But another frame that works is “There’s no fight happening, that’s not a THING that can occur in this situation.” Like, the complete 100% belief that there’s no possibility of a fight.

John Cusack demonstrates this really well in Grosse Pointe Blank, where the bully wants to fight him and he just cuts right into the guy’s reality through the guy’s drunken rage haze with 100% certainty:

Martin Q. Blank: “Do you *really* believe that there’s some stored up conflict that exists between us? There *is* no us. *We* don’t exist. So who do you wanna hit, man? It’s not me. Now whaddya wanna do here, man?”

In the movie the guy is all worked up but ultimately his reality is weak so he crumbles and reads him a poem lol. It’s like how people panic when they get pulled over by the cops even if they know they haven’t done anything wrong, the cop has a stronger frame. Most guys can’t pull this off because they have weak-ass frames and they assume angry drunk guys have strong frames. But if your frame overpowers theirs, they fall into yours.

This is how you treat dogs too, if you go in with the fear that something COULD happen, all they pick up on is that you’re worried something could happen so their emotions escalate because of your frame and before you know it something DOES happen. Whereas if you treat them with calm assertive energy Dog Whisperer style, they relax.

If a guy gets in your face and you think there COULD be a fight, he picks up on that and now both of your frames involve “there’s a possibility of this leading to a fight” so there’ll probably be one. There’s a reason some guys get into fights at the bar every weekend everywhere they go while others can interact with drunk angry guys and calm the situation down safely.

It’s the same way you talk to a girl with the frame of “we’re going to have sex” and her reality is so weak that “what you feel, she feels” so she falls into your frame and hers also becomes “we’re going to have sex”. This is just on a much scarier (in the moment) scale with higher stakes because it involves violence.

Again, most guys trying this will get their asses kicked. Even if they learn the tactic, they don’t have the experience to keep their frame. Don’t go out and be a dickhead and try to take guys’ girls away, find your own and make friends with guys. It’s way more productive and positive. But this stuff does work.

Wrong. A fight requires two people (or more) participate. If there are two people and one doesn’t engage, there is no fight. True masters of a martial art (and thus, themselves) will do ANYTHING to avoid a fight. Purely defensive moves (such as those taught in Aikido) don’t constitute fighting back, but rather ways to avoid getting hit or subduing an attacker without striking back.

The best is embracing the idea of fighting without fighting. Check out this story from a well-known American Aikido practitioner who studied with O’Sensei in the 1960s.

So if you were mad at Mother Teresa or Ghandi, you could take the first swing? Even knowing that everyone else in the entire WORLD will think you’re a piece of shit for it and they’re doing nothing to provoke you at all except be friendly?

You couldn’t punch them and they instinctively know it. Frame control.

… that actually gets into a bigger concept called “frame control”. The frame you’re advising is basically “This can go to a fight, and if it does, I’m going to win it.”

But another frame that works is “There’s no fight happening, that’s not a THING that can occur in this situation.” Like, the complete 100% belief that there’s no possibility of a fight.

Fair enough. But the Grosse Point Blank frame you are advocating takes far more mental discipline and acuity than the Bruce Lee frame I’m advocating. It seems smarter in an urgent situation to contract out some of the responsibility to a man’s physical side, rather than saddling it all on his wit. Especially since a lot of top-performing alphas are really rather witless (like, say, Tom Brady), and one of the first things that abandons you in an emergency is your mental-verbal sharpness.

But this goes back to an old disagreement I had with you about screenwriting. Cusack’s sudden plunge into existentialism simply does not sound plausible to me. (Isn’t Cusack’s character so deadly proficient that he can attempt such bizarre responses, confident that his physical skills will cash the check his mouth is writing?) Yes, the dialogue you cite conveys the point that frame is mightier than the bully, which is an important truth indeed. But it is asking one too many balls to be juggled in the air. Particularly since the smallest amount of physical preparation is disproportionately effective.

I took a three semesters of Shotokan years ago, never rising much above yellow, and it still serves me. Throwing a solid punch without telegraphing is not a natural thing. But once you’ve done 5,000 of them or so, you never unlearn it. I’ve hardly had a chance to use the training, but the certainty that, at absolute worst, I won’t look like a fop has assisted “frame” countless times.

I think this is the right frame so to speak. A good start. Anyone that doesn’t have the instinct to deal with these situations efficiently needs to read “The Art of War” The original translation. Then, pickup one of its many variants translated to apply to specific situations. AOW is one of a handful of books that really did change my life along with “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. Game for sales if you will but Mystery obviously has borrowed from Mr. Carnegie’s methods.

If you’re small and scared of fighting, go the sneaky route: Turn the girls against the guy. At the end of the day you might not have a stronger frame than the AMOG, but you sure as shit have a stronger frame than a group of giggly girls.

Go to the girl’s friend, get her laughing and in a good state, then just say “Hey I really like your friend over there, we were having a really cool conversation, but that creepy guy keeps interrupting us and groping her. :(” and the girls will run over and cockblock the guy for you and he’ll have no idea you had any part in it. You’re framing him as creepy, the friend wants her friend to hook up with you because you made her laugh so you’re higher value to her, etc. No risk of violence with this method because to the AMOG he just thinks he got cockblocked by her lame girlfriends.

Or directly to the girl I’ll say “I don’t think your boyfriend there likes me.” “My boyfriend?” “The guy that keeps groping you and glaring at me.” “Oh no he’s not my boyfriend!! We just met him!” “Oh, whew, good, ’cause he’s creepy as fuck, let’s get out of here.” No risk of violence because to the AMOG she just vanished or wandered off, he has no idea you did anything.

If you’ve built enough value, you can actually just give her a “well, I see you’ve made your choice, good luck with that!” shrug and backturn and either open some other girls or just chat with your friends. You’re forcing her to decide between the two of you. Without the backturn she’ll entertain the guy all night out of politeness figuring you’ll stick around, but as soon as you introduce the fear of loss, she goes “OMG noo come back I don’t like him at all he’s been following us all night!!!” No risk of violence because you’re not doing anything, you’re actively GIVING the girl to the guy, but she’s choosing you, the guy will get mad at the girl at worst, but not you.

AMOGs can’t do anything if the girl and her friends choose you in front of him. Like, there’s no more contest to fight about or compete over, all the guy can do is just make himself look worse and worse so he’s forced to back off or throw terrible hail-mary attempts that just play into the “that guy’s creepy” frame.

What would be a good post is… let’s say your girl is the type that has mostly guy friends (I’m sure there’s a post in just that alone), and after studying game principles for a few years, you suspect some guy “friends” may have been more than that judging by past interactions you’ve had in your girl’s and their presense together. Let’s say you suspect something may have happened in the past. I’m not sure anything short of bugging the phone or hacking into emails and looking for old communcations would be able to help the suspicions. Yet, any tactics available to get clues out of the girl without her thinking you’re a insecure beta? I’m thinking bringing up the perps name in casual conversation and putting him down to see her reaction would be a start.

Sounds like creeping ONEITIS. You don’t care if she fucked that guy or not. Do you? Why does it sound insecure and beta? Because it is. Is this LTR? If it is it wont last. Your insecurity will eventually overflow and push her away.

Two more things. Their interaction make you suspicious. This tells me two things. There’s nothing and you are insecure. Beta. Something did happen and she doesn’t have the respect for you to give the guy little more than cold courtesy in your presence or if you are really at the top of your game cut off communication altogether. Either way this is YOUR problem. Wondering what you plan to do if you find out they did fuck.

Sounds like a bad situation altogether. You need to step back figure out what happened with your game and recalibrate. Some chicks are just sluts and there’s nothing you can do. You do have “two in the kitty” right?

“The big bruiser with the hair trigger impulse control. This guy will take anything you say as an insult, and he has the size and sloping forehead to put a serious hurt on.”

Walk away. Let him have the girl. There’s another girl who looks just like her up the street. Not worth getting your head punched in by a psycho. Don’t you have 10 playboy models on call at any time? Or are you so desperate that you have to risk personal harm to get this one specific girl?

“The drunk. Alcohol releases all inhibitions, including those locked up in the fists. At least with the drunk you can easily avoid his wild swings.”

Drunks don’t fight unless you’re directly an asshole to them and they can justify it. At best they try to manhandle you a bit with an aggressive arm around the shoulders or whatever. Pussy > Fighting, as long as he thinks he has a chance with the chicks, beating you up is second priority, not first (unless you’re an asshole to him). Just humor him a bit with a smile on your face. Hell, introduce him to the girl and say “I’ll let you two talk. ;)” with a wink to your girl. A drunk guy isn’t going to have any game, especially if the girl’s already into you and he’s trying to take her from you. Leaving her with him just lets him blow himself out with his beer breath and sloppy akward groping. Then go rescue her a few minutes later either by sending her girlfriends in or just saying “Hey man, you’re cool but this is actually my girlfriend and we have to get going now.” She’ll play along because she wants to be rescued.

“The egotistic player-savant. The guy who is smart enough to know when he is being played, and smarter still to turn the tables on you. Beware this guy, for although he is a rare breed, he can tool you in front of a girl.”

These situs are funny because the battle sounds retarded. “That’s a cool shirt man.” “Not as cool as your hair bro!” “Well I gotta make up for my tiny penis somehow!” “Talkin about penises with another dude in a bar, did I walk into a gay bar by accident? I thought it was up the street.” “Don’t play innocent, I’ve seen you wandering back and forth outside it at 2am.” “Well your mom was taking forever to get her coat from coat check.” etc. etc.

These are actually the guys that you end up being friends with haha You both recognize eachother’s game and decide fuck it, let’s pick up girls together.

AMOG battles are actually a lot like handling a girl who really shit-tests you hard. Agree and exaggerate, keep a rock solid frame, ignore anything that doesn’t help your goal, etc.

I read the first link, and whole done of those are good, they’re not all the solid.

I’m not sure what you wrote, but you’ve got to remember most of game is not applicable to teh blacks; all of them have prisonyard fighting experience so it’s only a corrections officer that can “out amog” them.

I just use a whistle and they naturally hit the ground with their hands clasped behind their heads, or spread-eagle against the nearest wall. It’s instinctual, really.

Some aspiring PUA started hitting on my girl at my local bar and tried to deal with me by trying something very similar manner to the ‘pose down’ when I told the little shit to fuck off or I’d bitch slap him. I gave him one warning to leave immediatly and when he didn’t do it I got him in a choke hold and dagged him kicking and screaming outside. He fucked off real quick once I let him go. I know it was a dick move and my woman was real pissed at me but when I drink I have a totally low tolerence for any of this bs.

I know I’m not stupid enough to try any hitting on a woman in front of her guy who I think could beat me in a fight.

if the guy is trying to pick a fight or otherwise trying to bring you down, look at the girl, point to the interloper with a sideways thumb and say, “i think he has a crush on me or something.” keep gaming her and ignore him while he tries desperately to disqualify himself as being gay

I love reading some of the particular commenters here, it is obvious that very many men here are very intelligent, and the community has definitely made some very interesting discoveries, and much of game definitely helps in the “real world” too.

I still wonder, though, with all this time spent on learning how to better attract women, is what you’re doing just a more underhanded form of supplication? After all, we’re all investing hours and hours of our time into learning how to seduce women. We all invariably play the numbers game. We are still the ones with desire, and women still have the power to choose. I think game is the oppisite of feminism because it increases male power (this is why feminists invariably loathe it), but male power can only be increased so much. Women still have a fundamental monopoly on sex.

I think the pinnacle of meta-game is learning how to not desire women. In that way, a natural alpha who does not want much sex is one of the best kind of person a man could be.

[Heartiste: Jiminy krist, another “to please women is to be enslaved by them” troll.]

Jesus these “tactics” are really nothing more than gimmick phrases that are just as likely to get your ass beat! It sounds like a couple of teen age girls trying to tell each other off.

This past summer a friend of a friend, who apparently thought i was his competition, tried to use one of those goofy-ass comments about my shirt while in front of some girls. Now I know where he got it – LMFAO. This dude is a Gamey, PUA, monkey-douche who reads all the books so he can try to mimic that which he is not. It totally blew up in his face.

This is one of the few times I dissagree with this blog. These responses are terrible. The only way you are getting away with any of these is if the AMOG is mentally handicapped. All of these basically tell you to make “inside” jokes with some group of whores that you herd around every night, while assuming the AMOG is too dumb to pick up on them, or too much of a sissy to knock the shit out of you. Both seem unlikely if the guy already has the balls to walk up and push you around, mentally or physically. Way to handle these guys is simple: treat them as if they pose no threat to you.

When people I know I can beat up try to hit on my girl in front of me, I get real hostile. I pushed a guy halfway across the dancefloor for crossing the line. I’ve got idea how my girlfriend perceived that, because neither of us brought it up after we got home.

However, another time, I was with my LTR and her friend at a club. We went outside, her friend wanted a smoke, I ordered a drink in the bar and watched them from afar. I saw them walk up to two guys getting a smoke. After a while one of the guys hugged my girlfriend. It was her birthday, so he probably said something like “blabla your birthday you have to let me give you a hug” or whatever. So I walked up to them, and grabbed my LTR. The guy looks at me:
“Oh is this the boyfriend coming to beat me up?”
At this point I realise he’s got game.
“Look at me, who would I beat up?” I said with a very uninterested voice.
I also remember he saying something about working as a bartender on Malta (a holiday Island in the meditteranean). Don’t remember the exact dialogue but it was very short. I only remember him looking at me in a very demeaning way and saying “You know… it’s an ISLAND… in the OCEAN”

Because once he started to annoy me I said “Hey, lets go back in”. And the girls followed me. So I think I acted good in that case. Had I beaten him up I would have just helped him out I think. So resorting to violence for me depends on the guy. If he’s bothering my girl, I can beat his ass. If he’s got game, I have to be careful and outmaneuvre him.

But shit like this makes me wonder what goes on when I’m not there. Do other guys with game successfully flirt with my girl? Who knows.

One of the many advantages of day-game is rarely, if-ever having to deal with AMOG situations. I consider after-work wine tastings to be daygame, because people are in a mode closer to eating, than really drinking.

Plus, in my city, there are rarely any younger dudes at wine tastings.

The only time I can think of having to deal with AMOG situations is dealing with angry boyfriends and/or jilted husbands. That shit can be a bit scary, and that’s no AMOG situation that can be dealt with by using witty repartee or maybe even Krav Maga. That’s 9mm JHP type stuff. Self-defense only tho.

Best defense against that type stuff is a good offense. Don’t do it, and if you do, don’t get caught.

I had a good friend whose father was a sex crimes investigator, and he said that the overwhelming majority of stalking cases that turn violent are situations exactly like you describe — a woman’s jilted ex stalking her new lover.

This is probably the biological roots of approach anxiety.. Back on the Veldt, approaching the wrong female could get you a spearpoint massage.

Thus, approach anxiety *was* an evolutionary adaptation that got our genes advanced. Now it’s just a handicap, BUT, it’s still possible to get murked by fucking with the wrong dame. Thus, if you’re gonna go this route, CCW up if your state allows.

I was at a urban nightclub for the first time last Saturday trying to work some game and approached two ladies sitting alone in a booth. Turns out the hotter one (a latina girl) had a boyfriend and the other one was married.

After 5 minutes I was getting some good responses when the latina’s boyfriend came to the table. A big hispanic guy who could whoop my white ass. She introduced me to her boyfriend “This is Leif” and he replied “I don’t give a shit about Leif.” Ouch. I sorta got blown out AMOG’d and left shortly. Didn’t want to fuck with this guy.

5 minutes later someone else broke a glass bottle over his head and he’s covered in blood. Glad I got out when I did. Not sure if I will ever return.

[Heartiste: File under: Chicks dig assholes. Really, how can any man respect women when they cream their panties for primitives like this bf? (*ed note: mistakenly attributed him to leif)]

I do see more questions about the AMOG floating around these days, and this I truly think, is a product of once hapless automatic betas (raised by liberal lefty single moms, and if any father, a limp wristed beta fag himself) now starting to assert themselves and running into actual Alpha’s and not knowing how to deal with them.

My 2 cents – Stick with it boys, we cannot all be alpha’s but with some help and practice you can at least come closer to alpha or at least a more powerful beta…just don’t try and jump into your big boy britches too fast.

Just to remind the boys that women are just totally dishonest. Live with it.

I am surprised by how cheap those women were. Things must be tough.

Oh, BTW. Can’t think of anything dumber than getting into a fight in a bar over some perceived insult with an asshole. If the guy is intent on physical attack, scam. You don’t need a busted jaw, tooth, neck, or spleen. And, God forbid you mess him up. Try getting a job with an assault conviction.

Here in Baltimore we have, from time to time, guys in the you know which part of town killing each other over some incident in a bar (usually a strip bar). They pull out guns. A dead alpha isn’t getting much pussy.

This always happens in crowded bars: You find your optimal spot, and out of all the places, the AMOG comes over to your spot and physically tries to shove you out of the way. I don’t budge. Either I stay hard as a rock and get a lot of “hey man, what’s your problem blah blah,” or I try to gay them out by being all loose and letting them push into me a little and then leaning on them a little until it’s almost weird. They either think I’m really drunk or a creepy fag.

Actually, there have been times when I’ve just held my ground and eventually the AMOG actually asked me to go with him and some girls to an after-party, or indicate that they have respect for me. BTW, I’m not a big dude.

There is too much mental masturbation going on with the replies here. I have to call it out: Look guys, if you object to the content of the post at least back up your claim with some type of example, story, experience etc. Then offer your tactic or gambit or maneuver or bird call or whatever the fuck it is you do to AMOG.

Simply writing “no this won’t work it doesn’t sound right or whatever” is weak and a glarring indicator you’re farting out your keyboard.

Straight up: If you’re not getting AMOGed when you’re out at a busy venue with your date, she’s not that hot. Or the set you’re talking to isn’t that hot.

The best methodology I’ve ever come across regarding AMOG is credit to Asian Playboy:

-Befriend
-Ignore
-Tool

(In that order of priority).

BEFRIEND
I’d say the high majority of AMOGing can be accomplished by befriending (~80%), why? = most men are beta. Before I started studying game I use to call it “out nice-ing” the guy. This was during my college years and getiing AMOGed happened all the time. Simply I would befriend or “out nice” the threat by making friends. He’d end up liking me because I’d dominate the conversation and frame and get to know him, then be cool and say “cool to meet you man” then roll off with my chic. It’s very easy to make guy friends. If you can’t do this, you have much work to do before gaming hot women.

IGNORE
As it states. The AMOG doesn’t exist. Don’t look at him, don’t acknowledge him, at all. If logistics favor then turn your back to him so you are still facing the target. Don’t mention him to the target. Hold your frame with the target. If/when AMOG tries to interupt, slighty amplify your voice and hold frame, keep the target’s attention on you and your conversation. If you’re doing this right, the AMOG will blow himself out by akwardness.

TOOL
The last resort. Rarely have had the need to do this. But have, and it can be risky. But also it can be fucking hilarious. Mystery’s guy Matador has a good video of some tool moves on You Tube. I don’t feel like digging it up now, but it’s worth a search if you want to see some smooth AMOG gambits. Essentially you make fun of the AMOG so as long as it doesn’t hurt your game with the target and fleshes out the betaness of the threat (makes him flustered, frustrated, irritated, annoyed).

“Straight up: If you’re not getting AMOGed when you’re out at a busy venue with your date, she’s not that hot. Or the set you’re talking to isn’t that hot.”

Quoted for fucking truth lol There are a lot of “players” out there getting laid left and right by average to decent chicks at the bar, or picking up gorgeous chicks outside of the bar environment by doing day game or social circle game and not taking those girls all dolled up out to busy party venues.

And that’s cool, good on ’em for getting laid. But they’re not playing the same game some of us are. 🙂

Nice to see someone else on here who actually goes out instead of argues KJ-theory.

AMOGing isn’t some meathead mexican standoff every time. Like it’s gunna end up in a brawl so you need be a fucking ninja, break bricks on your head and prepare for a UFC match…*just in case*.

Honestly in my experience, most of the time it’s just a harmless beta dude that has some liquid courage and goes to talk to the hot chic. If it’s your chic, sometimes I just cold read, look at body language, determine he’s beta and let him betafy himself out. [Ignore].

Quick story: was on a date, SMV7, nice long legs, athletic ass and waist, nice rack, plain face. I go to piss, come back to find a dude pecking and shit smiling at my date talking about where she works (nerd). All I did was sit down and say “what’s up man”. And he fuckin rolled over on his belly like a fuckin puppy dog in submmission. Apologized to me, to her, got nervous, rambled, stuttered. Explained why he was talking to her, told me “I’m sorry man, I knew someone was sitting here, I saw the 2nd glass…” it was kinda sad and pathetic. I just said/did nothin, he left.

Make it a habit, part of your full inner character, to always talk slow and respond slow.

This develops one strength: when you take a second or two in pause before you respond, and ennunciate each word clearly, you actually end up training your mind to be faster at responding.

When you respond or talk too fast, your brain doesn’t actually do much work subconsciously — it’s all conscious quick connect. When you take a moment, and communicate slowly, your brain rewires itself. You become wittier and your words make more sense.

Double entendres and the like are usually formed from the slow thinker, not the fast talker.

agree w A.B. on the slow thinking. (which comes only after experience and confidence)

i would add that to get there, the key is observation. find someone who is witty and funny and observe them; make them your best friend. another good supplement is watching stand up. chris rock, seinfeld etc. watch “comedian”. the trick isn’t what you say, but how you say it.

Dada, if you’re spending 5k a year on krav maga, aka jewjitsu, and you don’t know how to get out of a headlock, get your money back. And take some judo or wrestling lessons.
Back to the post topic though. I’ve been amog’d literally once in my entire life. Does that say something about me or about other men? Anyway, I was out w my girlfriend and some scrawny guy peacocking to the point of being ridiculous tried to interrupt with ” bro, my gay cousin wears that same shirt”. I looked at him and paused for a second as my 1,000 yard stare drilled a hole into his brain. He literally wilted before me and took a step back. Then I said “those girls over there are more in your league” while pointing to some fat cows getting tanked at the bar. His response was a single muttering of “cool” and then he melted away into the crowd.
End scene.

I can get out of a headlock — but I also get together with some local guys for the entire summer (weekly or twice a month) and we basically pummel each other at the beach. Part of that is just having fun, part of it is exercise, and part of it is actually learning how to break free of attacks. Oddly enough, the little squirmy guys are the ones who have given me the worst beatings.

Then again, black eyes and bruises around your neck can bring IOIs for a few days afterwards.

Some of this advice is asking for a trip to the ER. There are more than a few dudes out there, not necessarily size related, who will throw down on you quick for some of this. Oh and their bimbo will jump up on your ass too.

Plenty of unattached good ones dont go out of your way to be a douche and if you are tapping one on the side that you know is a cheat and it goes south well you bought the ticket you took your chances.

I think to much emphasis is put on the theoretical AMOG and boyfriend stealing is just pathetic. If your so stuck on a girl you want to gank her from some guy your just asking to get your life thrashed. You may be saying something that is actually true “this guy…your his everything etc”.

Just very risky and bitch plays in my book. If you want to fuck a girl that bad, you get TWO girls. You get one for this new guy, and one for yourself and you make a friend for life.

This is a weird post. Girls are everywhere, hot ones are pretty much everywhere. Once you find the perfect one for the phase of life your in, all their other friends will fade away. No boyfriend stealing needed because you created a frame thats authentic that she wants to grow in.

In short, if you cant get the girl by showing your frame of life, and you gotta smash the other guys your never gonna stop having to smash the other guys. It leaves you with a negative din of emotion you will always have to shoulder. And screw that, I live life to win and party afterwards.

When I go out, I almost always have 2 lesser alphas with me (not fans but peers), and they’re typically always bigger, stronger and faster than I am. Sometimes I’ll jokingly AMOG them when people ask who they are: “Head of security, and the guy protecting him.”

There’s an episode in season 1 of ‘Louie’ that is basically all about the AMOG. Highly recommend it for its relation to everything discussed here. This highschool football player basically fucks with him while he’s on a date, and challenges him to fight. Louie declines, but the cougar he’s with says that ‘biologically’ she just feels ‘turned off’.

Does anyone here have advice for the opposite situation? I am a strong guy with a shaved head so I frequently get these tactics used against me. I hate when skinny guys that look like women make remarks about how I am so strong and do impersonations that the group laughs at. It sucks listening to one of my better assets get belittled. It would be great to have a witty way to deal with this situation as the other guys at my college are the type to sue after losing fight.