If people don't like what I have to say, oh well. Preception is reality. Every man has his own truth to an extent.

Could I have worded what I said more *differently* or more *politically correct* sure, but in the same breath fuck that. Tolerance and political correctness is what got us in this problem which our country now faces and has become. A pathetic shit show. Because no one has anymore balls to stand up for what is morally right. Every one is too damn worried about being comfortable and being seen as universal accepted and trendy/edgy. That shit is for peasants and weak minded shills.

There will always be winners and losers. It's life and you don't get a participation trophy for just showing up.

And wtf? You all the sudden bend over for this bitch @MacDuffle because he calls you out over his pussified feelings being hurt.

This is a forum called war room Toughen up.

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You can say whatever you choose, but I don't want somebody putting your words in my mouth, regardless of what they are. I don't have an issue with what you said but I didn't write those words so I shouldn't be criticized for them.

On a serious note, what's the average age for people enlisting now? I'm sure it's above 20. That's a problem in and off itself. Very hard to shape someone who has grown up soft as fuck for 20+ years into a killer.

Lowering the age to 14, and providing the military as an "alternative" high school might be a good choice for a lot of people.

Do you think we lost Nam because Charlie was in the jungle studying calc?

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I always felt that we "lost" (note I'd say we didn't win) Nam because of several factors, namely we tried to force our way of life on a country that didn't want it; Constantly overthrowing South Vietnamese leaders that we had installed in the first place; and general lack of support for the war.

But none of that addresses the issue that on avg American kids are falling behind (or believed to be) their Asian counterparts in many areas of education.

I think it's more the quality of recruits. If they tightened up the enlistement and physical standards, reduced head count, and made it more prestigious, the quality of recruits would go up. It's not like there's no motivated, squared away young people, it's just that those guys have way better options than the military.

There's always been a large segment of people who join the military because they can't find anything better. So now the problem is that those "weakest links" are in general, weaker than before. Which ultimately weakens the whole thing. But the real problem is that for way too long the military has served as a glorified government handout for people who aren't qualified to do much of anything.

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This and we have waaaay to many kids joining for college benefits. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for education and I will be started on classes soon, but a lot of these benefits suckers have no sense of duty or discipline. Same with a lot of these girls that got knocked up in high school and only see the military as a way to make ends meet. They are some of the worst soldiers I’ve ever met.

This and we have waaaay to many kids joining for college benefits. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for education and I will be started on classes soon, but a lot of these benefits suckers have no sense of duty or discipline

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Isn't this a bit of a double edged sword in a way? Even public colleges are expensive as fuck so some people see this as their only option to GET to college because schools don't highlight trades nearly as much as they probably should. Shit like welding, carpentry and other things aren't glamorous by any means but almost ALL pay pretty damn good wages and don't have the money sink of college.

This and we have waaaay to many kids joining for college benefits. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for education and I will be started on classes soon, but a lot of these benefits suckers have no sense of duty or discipline. Same with a lot of these girls that got knocked up in high school and only see the military as a way to make ends meet. They are some of the worst soldiers I’ve ever met.

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Meh, I think the reasons for joining are totally irrelevant. Back in my regular army days, some of my best soldiers were the ones who joined later in life because they wanted a stable job, healthcare, a salary, etc. to take care of their families. They didn't fuck around because they knew what was at stake for themselves and their families. Some guys joined up for adventure, and some of them were awesome soldiers because they wanted to be there, would tolerate the bullshit (many of them were athletes back in high school or college), and lived for doing all the cool-guy shit. Some join up for patriotic reasons, and that's great too. The only issue I saw was when the bureaucracy poured on, their enthusiasm faded along with their fantasies of being Audie Murphy. The ones that joined up for what they could get out of the deal were fine as long as they stayed motivated enough, so sometimes, they required some extra attention. Ultimately, it was the job of the leadership to keep their people challenged and engaged. A lot of leadership gets caught up in their own bullshit (meetings, training stats, and making sure that things are polished and shiny), and they forget about their troops. And then they wonder why their units suck.

Isn't this a bit of a double edged sword in a way? Even public colleges are expensive as fuck so some people see this as their only option to GET to college because schools don't highlight trades nearly as much as they probably should. Shit like welding, carpentry and other things aren't glamorous by any means but almost ALL pay pretty damn good wages and don't have the money sink of college.

Meh, I think the reasons for joining are totally irrelevant. Back in my regular army days, some of my best soldiers were the ones who joined later in life because they wanted a stable job, healthcare, a salary, etc. to take care of their families. They didn't fuck around because they knew what was at stake for themselves and their families. Some guys joined up for adventure, and some of them were awesome soldiers because they wanted to be there, would tolerate the bullshit (many of them were athletes back in high school or college), and lived for doing all the cool-guy shit. Some join up for patriotic reasons, and that's great too. The only issue I saw was when the bureaucracy poured on, their enthusiasm faded along with their fantasies of being Audie Murphy. The ones that joined up for what they could get out of the deal were fine as long as they stayed motivated enough, so sometimes, they required some extra attention. Ultimately, it was the job of the leadership to keep their people challenged and engaged. A lot of leadership gets caught up in their own bullshit (meetings, training stats, and making sure that things are polished and shiny), and they forget about their troops. And then they wonder why their units suck.

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I totally agree that leadership is responsible for keeping people motivated and that the Army’s politics can break a motivated young soldier.

And yes, it’s fine if you join to get free school or to take care of your family, but at the same time, I’ve heard some of these young shitbags say “I didn’t expect to deploy, I just joined for college!” when finding out that they are deploying. That shit pisses me off. They need to remember that they have a duty to their country wether or not they joined for patriotic reasons.

Kids today haven't been raised to be a mindless cog in the machine. Unlike their parents, they've been raised to say no to pain, to abuse, to things they don't want. Their generation is growing up watching soldiers take their own lives in endless, needless wartime; their generation is growing up watching their parents receive ve no rewards for making sacrifices for the companies which pay them. Unlike their parents, they do not believe loyalty will be rewarded. They're disposable fodder in a world that offers the less economic opportunity than American generations before them and are quickly being replaced by machines.

They've learned that they need to look after themselves because there is no longer a social contract that says that they'll receive the means to take care of themselves in exchange for contributing to society or sacrificing themselves for their country.

They're already changing the world, just by not accepting what their parents accepted. But they're also confused as fuck with no path to follow, so who knows if the change is for good or for ill.

I totally agree that leadership is responsible for keeping people motivated and that the Army’s politics can break a motivated young soldier.

And yes, it’s fine if you join to get free school or to take care of your family, but at the same time, I’ve heard some of these young shitbags say “I didn’t expect to deploy, I just joined for college!” when finding out that they are deploying. That shit pisses me off. They need to remember that they have a duty to their country wether or not they joined for patriotic reasons.