Oh gosh the last two weeks have been nerve racking! Sorry this is really long, but I need to get this off my chest!

First off George is missing! :sad: I have no one to blame but myself because I let my cats outside. I just got George in January or February of this year and now he's gone! I have looked all over for him. I haven't seen him on the road, I've checked the ditches for him, I just don't know if he has run off or if he's dead! I made flyers up and put them in neighbour's mailboxes. I don't have many neighbours, there's alot of fields and bush around us. I just wonder if he's a roamer. Seeing as though he was a stray, he used to hang out at everyone's house in the neighbourhood where my girlfriend found him. He was around there for a month before we took him. He wasn't neutered at the time but he is now. I miss him sooo much. He was like Max who I lost in December due to the road. I feel horrible.

Secondly, I worry about Zoe because she is very quick to react aggressively towards Copper. It's my fault there too. It happened over a treat. I gave them each a treat and Zoe left the room to eat hers. Copper and I were sitting on the floor and he had just ate his. I had his head in my hands and I was giving him kisses on his nose and Zoe walked over she must of thought he had a treat and tried to go for it. Right away she grabbed Copper's cheek and growled, Copper started to growl and I was right there in the middle and pushed Zoe away, and told her "No, Bad girl. I put her in the other room while I gave Copper some lovin'. It seemed like she just walked up to him and decided she wanted what he was having.
She tends to gulp her treats where as Copper takes his time to chew them. It happened so fast! This incident has reaked havocc on my nervous system! It makes me think twice about having her(No I'm not getting rid of her!!) I worry so much but I can't help it. I know now how extra careful I have to be with these two dogs.
It's nothing more than dogs being dogs, but I have to be extra cautious in everything I do with them. If worse comes to worse, I know to keep them apart for good. This is the one thing that worried me about owning another Pit Bull. I love them both to death - but nobody is going to hurt my baby Copper!
Another similar incident occured with yet another treat. They were not in the same room when they ate their treats. They both had finished and Copper walked in the room. Zoe must have thought she still had some treat left because she growled and grabbed Copper again! I was right there again and pulled them apart. I looked Zoe in the eyes and scolded her again. All was fine afterwards. Once again, it happened so fast! It's just very nerve racking. They are NEVER left alone together. Zoe has a tendency to be my shadow these days, so where ever I go she goes! Copper is content to hang out outside when we are at home whereas Zoe has to be in the house with me in whatever room I may be in!

And lastly, Copper broke a nail. The nail has lifted off of the quick and he is super sensitive about his nails to begin with! I took him to the vet,because he wouldn't let me touch his nail to see how bad it was broke. I was sooo worried they would have to sedate him to pull it off or clean it up. I didn't want him to be traumatized if they muzzled him and did this to his nail. The muzzle part didn't bother me, but he is so sensitive about his nails, I was so worried about him! Anyway the vet put him on the table, I held him and she grabbed his paw, cleaned it, and clipped all his nails. He barely flinched! He has no problems letting his vet cut his nails. So I totally worried and freaked out over nothing!!

Anyway sorry to bore you all! If anyone has anything to say, go ahead!

Prin

July 1st, 2005, 12:27 AM

I'm sorry for George. :fingerscr
Don't worry too much about Zoe and Copper- you have to give them time to figure each other out. As long as your alpha, it seems like it'll be ok.
And for the nails, when Jemma ripped her nail off the first time, I was as freaked as you were (they bleed so much, my back seat was like a crime scene...)...

It all works out in the end. (usually) :)

Angeleyes1437

July 1st, 2005, 12:36 AM

Awww... you are so sweet being worried. If George was a stray initially he is street smart I am sure he will be back. Maybe you can start keeping them in the house more, cats tend to get into trouble when they are out. Good luck though, and I want you to let us know when he returns... I worry about these things. I'll go to sleep thinking about George!

As for Copper and Zoe I worry the same thing about getting a second dog. Anywho... I notice the way you sound when you speak of Copper. That is how I am with Max, I feel like I will play favorites a little bit. However, that is the worst thing we can do. Zoe is probably following you around trying to bond with you more... dogs can sense when you favor one more than the other. Which is another reason she may turn on Copper...to gain your respect. Even if you feel that you love Copper more, or favor him- don't show it. We love our dogs like children, so we tend to use human phsycology on them, but they don't think like us- they think in terms of a pack. As long as you remain Alpha and they feel equal to one another there shouldn't be a problem.

I recently watched an episode of the Dog Whisperer with Ceaser Millan...he's great. A family had three dogs, a Chow, Akita, and lab. The Akita was the Omega... they thought the Chow to be the Alpha- when they should have been the Alphas. The Lab was actually more dominent and she would attack the Chow because they obviously favored her. She would even sleep in bed with them while the other dogs would get the floor. There were a lot of things that made it so extreme. Once he explained this to them they began changing their behavior and the attacks stopped.

Not saying that you do this... just figured if I had any info or ideas I would share... after all you've been so helpful to me :)

Copper'sMom

July 1st, 2005, 12:55 AM

Thanks Prin :)

I know with Copper and Zoe it's still too early to tell(or is it)? I know they have to work things out. Copper is so laid back as it is, so I don't know why Zoe feels she has to show him she's boss! Copper shows no dominance over her at all!!! I kind of wish he would though!

I'm just worrying too much. I have thought about for the last two weeks. At first I thought maybe I should rehome Zoe as I don't want her to change Copper. But I love her too much already. If I need a behaviourist and the world's top trainer to help me out, then I'll get them!

Angeleyes, you are so right. Copper is my favorite BUT they each hold a spot in my heart that the other doesn't. I look at Zoe and see my adorable little girl. She's beautiful and she is more snuggly with me than Copper is!(only because I tend to maul Copper to much he gets annoyed and moves away!!) They each have their own individual personalities that I love about them. But Copper was first and for 4 years, he has been my whole world. My life literally revolves around him!(sad, I know!)

I don't necessarily favour him more than her though. She takes up alot of my time chasing her around and with training her and all. I feel like I need some Copper and Mommy time - but I don't think Copper really cares!
In a way, Copper is kind of independent(as long as he's not left at home alone)! He'll do his own thing(sleep). Zoe has to follow me EVERYWHERE!! Both dogs sleep in bed with us, but Copper gets off the bed alot because Zoe is so hyper when we go to bed. He'll crawl back on the bed in the middle of the night.
Zoe definitely has more rules though but that's because she is still learning. I do try to let Copper do everything before she gets to(like going outside or getting in the truck). Maybe I should stop that?? I'm trying to show her Copper comes before her!

Angeleyes1437

July 1st, 2005, 01:02 AM

See, thats what I thought was the best thing... but now I'm not so sure. I figured "I'll just teach the new dog that Maximus comes first" but it's not like that... according to Ceasar Millan, lol... he really is great though. I am going to his seminar in September...just to meet him and listen to him speak. He has about 40 dogs, a lot of them Pit Bull breeds and NEVER has a problem. He puts it this way "all of my dogs come 2nd"... so someone asked "Who comes first" he replied "Me".

I, like you, am selfless... my dog comes first. However, it's not really supposed to be that way in doggie world, the alpha is the alpha... thats it. And it's not sad, I'm the same way. I cut down time at my job to exercise Maximus more and devote time to this BSL crap. We love our dogs! Thats what it comes down to! ... thats why we are here.

Copper'sMom

July 1st, 2005, 01:11 AM

As much as my dog is spoiled, he knows that Momma is the boss!! LOL I know how important it is for him to have "rules" to follow. He doesn't get away with everything but then again he is so well behaved, he never needs to be corrected! :angel:

Oh and, just reading your posts about how you talk about your dog.......you sound just like me!! I don't post alot about how my dog makes me feel on this board, but people I talk to everyday and the people I know, our descriptions are almost exactly the same! It's like we're twins in the dog department!

Angeleyes1437

July 1st, 2005, 01:23 AM

I know... usually they are- especially the first dog. Maximus never needs to be corrected in the house... occasionally on the leash- he's still young. I think the favoritism thing is more for the daily activities. I am going to research it more, as I will need to know too eventually when we do get another one. Your pup is young, so I doubt there is or will be any issue. I figured I would just share that little bit of info.

Cactus Flower

July 1st, 2005, 02:18 AM

Copper'sMom, I really like you.
There, now I feel better. (After I read your posts, I always think to myself "I really like her". You're so.....forthright, from the heart. So anyway I thought I'd say that "out loud", in text. Felt good!)

Now, onto your issues. First of all, I'm sorry to hear about George. But if he was a stray before, he remembers all of the survival methods he learned out there then. He's better armed than a cat that has lived inside his whole life that gets away. Have faith in him, and we'll pray for his quick return!

As I was reading about Zoe and Copper, I thought about Raj and Chloe. Raj is allergic to meat protein, so she can't have regular dog treats. But I do get them for Chloe. If Raj is asleep or occupied with something else, I will sneak Chloe a meaty treat. Well, when Raj comes in- even though the treat is already gone- she will walk right up to Chloe and sniff around Chloe's mouth. Then she gets mad! She looks at me and complains, then complains to Chloe as well! We are BUSTED.

She can obviously SMELL that Chloe has just eaten a treat. The smell must be on her breath, or just around her mouth.

Could it be that Zoe can detect the treat-smell on Copper, and might think Copper still has a treat in his mouth? Or maybe Zoe thought that when you were nuzzling Copper, you were giving him another treat, and the smell "confirmed" that to her?

Just throwing that out there. I might be way off.

shannon1233A

July 1st, 2005, 08:54 AM

I'll add my 2 cents worth here as I experienced the same thing with my 2. Of course, once it happens you're nervous and don't want a reoccurance.

Could it be that when you're in the room with Zoe and Copper, Zoe senses your nervousness and reacts to that? They said in conf. classes that your feelings go down the leash and to the dog. But they're highly sensitive and it could be that although you're Alpha in the house, there's still a feeling of YOU being nervous when they're together with you in a room and Zoe is picking up on that.

Please, please don't take this as an insult, it's absolutely normal when youve experienced Zoe going after Copper, and knowing he may be attacked. I love you for that, for caring so much you don't want the slightest incident :love: I'm just suggesting that in my situation, I had to force myself to be more self condifent that I could handle the situation if it arised, when the 2 dogs were around me and afirm that sense of confidence. It was felt by the doggys and turned out great.

I'm sure it'll work out for you too :grouphug:

Copper'sMom

July 1st, 2005, 10:43 AM

AWWWW CF thank-you!! I'm speechless!! :grouphug: I'm a very caring and loving person towards people and pets but I usually have a very hard time expressing it - towards people anyway! The way I speak is often taken the wrong way!

Now, onto your issues. First of all, I'm sorry to hear about George. But if he was a stray before, he remembers all of the survival methods he learned out there then. He's better armed than a cat that has lived inside his whole life that gets away. Have faith in him, and we'll pray for his quick return!
Thanks for your prayers! I'm sure he can defend for himself because he did it before, but I can't help to worry and wonder if he's dead or alive! I have awful images that he could have been hit by a car but was able to pull himself off the road and that he died in a ditch. This is why I have gone in the deep ditches to look for him but it's like looking for a needle in hay stack! But I don't know if this has happened - I just wonder about it(i always expect the worst)!

Could it be that Zoe can detect the treat-smell on Copper, and might think Copper still has a treat in his mouth? Or maybe Zoe thought that when you were nuzzling Copper, you were giving him another treat, and the smell "confirmed" that to her?

Just throwing that out there. I might be way off.

No this isn't way off! I'm sure that's why she acted the way she did! I'm just don't understand WHY she has to act that way! She gets really nasty and sounds like she wants to kill him! I worry about this a little more only because they are both Pit Bulls. If they have one good fight, it'll never be the same again. :( And of course, I don't want Copper to be corrupted or injured!

Shannon - no worries, I don't feel the slightest bit insulted! I understand exactly what your are saying.
I am a nervous, worry wort of a person. I worry, yes, but it's all worrying in my head! I'm not nervous or scared of my dogs when they are together. I know what can happen or what might happen but it's not something I concentrate on day and night where I'm always on edge!

Yes, I'll admit when Copper is on a leash and we see another dog OFF LEASH, I get nervous and I know he senses that through the tightness on the leash. But they aren't on leash at home and I'm not worried that there will be a fight. I just worry that one day, there could be a huge fight. That's what worries me! I guess, obviously, I don't want that to happen, but I still have to worry about it happening!

Mainly my worries are because of the type of breed they are. I'm not scared of them, I have no second thoughts of jumping in to split them up. I know they won't bite me on purpose(when fighting), if I get bit, it's because I'm in the way! But I will not stand back and watch them "duke it out." I'm just like a mother who worries about their teenager because through the teenage years, kids experiment with many different things and usually they aren't all good! It's like a teen who goes to a party, the parent worries that nothing bad will happen! Ya know what I mean???

Oh, I'm very confident with my dogs. When an incident occured, I was a little shaken, so that's when I walk away from them until I'm calm again but not before I made it clear to them, I won't tolerate their behaviour(momma growls)!!

Angeleyes1437

July 1st, 2005, 12:36 PM

Coppers Mom- I feel like when you speak about your APBT's you say exactly what I would say. Everything will be fine, I'm sure of it... just keep up the good work- be a strong momma. :thumbs up

Luba

July 1st, 2005, 12:38 PM

Sometimes things just pile up on us emotionally! It's one of those days where you just need a big ole :grouphug: