I would like to cheer the progress of the ‘good guys’ here, but I know the U.S. satellite and drone reconnaissance people have been looking at mass grave sites in ISIS-held parts of Manbij for the last week. I merely ‘know’ in the sense that head-choppers will be head-choppers. There are things they are going to do when cornered – it’s 100% predictable and guaranteed.

The U.S. and the SDF knew about the potential for civilian slaughter when they chose to execute the campaign the way they have. It was more important to ‘claim military victory’ over ISIS in Manbij then save it’s civilians. The goal of eliminating Manbij as a route for jihadis was accomplished a month ago when they surrounded it. It was no longer a threat to anyone. Instead, the U.S. desire to win and ‘own’ Manbij (under the guise of the PYD masters of their Kurdish subjects) was demanded. Manjib must fall so the U.S., er… Kurds… er, Rojava can claim the territory from the Syrian people. It’s just spoils of war – screw the unfortunate civilians that got caught in the crossfire.

VGA

And what do you suggest? Just surround the city and … wait it out?

Pave Way IV

There were dozens of better options than an undersized SDF force made up of mostly Kurd mercenaries, a few random U.S. SF guys and hope-and-pray aerial bombardment on civilian-populated buildings one ISIS sniper position at a time. The current operation was certainly not designed as if CENTCOM planner’s own parents and children were still stuck in Manjib and unable to leave. It was designed for the U.S. to ‘own’ Manjib as soon as possible using the maximum level of media censorship to erase the massive number of civilian deaths.

There are too many of us that remember the media’s spin and U.S. government lies about Falluja – the 2004 version. They seem to forget that those injured and disabled troops that participated come back to the U.S. veterans’ hospitals and tell what really happened there. The operation couldn’t have killed more innocent civilians if it was an intentinal planned slaughter. Both the civilians and U.S. troops were sacrificed by military planners to claim a quick victory – nothing else. They were human garbage to coalition planners. For Christ’s sake, the Brits even pulled the SAS out of the operation because they knew it was going to be an unnecessary slaughter.

How SHOULD they have done Fallujah instead? I don’t know, but by the accounts of the guys that came back in pieces: any way except the idiotic, sadistic way that they chose to ‘liberate’ Fallujah. Manjib has that same smell about it to me – too many secrets, too much censorship, and way too many civilian deaths that will automatically be blamed on ISIS (no matter who is responsible). CENTCOM has the same kind of psychopaths running the SDF that the coalition had in Fallujah. Chances are, you will not hear a damn thing about the real cost of Manbij either way. The U.S. puts Goebbels to shame on propaganda and censorship – nothing is going to be reported on unless it makes the SDF/US look good.

VGA

I don’t care about the lives of some sunnis under islamist control, sorry. All I want is for the islamist factions to be defeated, no matter the cost, preferrably by other forces in Syria, not requiring another criminal and heavy-handed western intervention.

Western intervention is what brought the Middle East to this point. Now I am hoping for a kurdish state to be formed, for an Assad dictatorship to obliterate the islamists etc.

Sorry for being harsh but that’s what I think is best for my country’s interests. I am a european btw, not american.

Pave Way IV

I don’t care about the lives of some sunnis under islamist control, sorry.

Well, at least you’re honest. But use your own words, not those spoon-fed to you by western MSM. All Sunnis are ‘Islamists’, as are all Shia, but use the correct term: Muslims. Muslims are people that follow the Islamic faith. The term ‘Islamist’ is a western MSM concocted fake phrase intended to trick you into repeatedly connecting the two unrelated ideas (radical=islam) in your head and divert your attention from what you probably mean: weaponized Saudi-exported Wahabbism. If you hate all Muslims (‘Islamists’) or Muslim-controlled societies, then say so using real words, not MSM made-up ones like ‘Islamists’. If you actually hate head-chopping jihadis created by Saudi-sponsored weaponized Wahabbism, then don’t throw the other 99.5% of the muslims on earth under the bus with them. Most Muslims on earth don’t even consider Wahabbism a legitimate form of Islam – it’s a freakish Saudi state-created control tool.

All I want is for the islamist factions to be defeated, no matter the cost, preferrably by other forces in Syria, not requiring another criminal and heavy-handed western intervention.

You realize that the SDF was created by criminal and heavy-handed western intervention, right? The U.S. exploited Kurdish nationalism to take over the de facto (and unelected) Kurdish government, the PYD, and the YPG/YPJ military. The U.S. owns them 100%. If you haven’t noticed, every government the U.S. (the CIA, actually) has the least bit of involvement setting up is riddled with cronyism, nepotism and self-interested psychopaths that are one step removed from tyranny. The U.S. is not supporting the Kurds for any humanitarian or moral reason. They are supporting them so a corrupt U.S.-controlled Kurdish puppet government will let the U.S. do whatever it wants on Kurdish land forever.

I don’t object to anyone kicking ISIS out of Manbij or anywhere else. I object to the U.S. covertly tricking the Kurds into fighting and dying for what will essentially be just a piece of a corrupt, U.S. controlled Kurdistan carved out of Syria. I object to a ham-handed, bloody, civilian-slaughtering conquest of ISIS in Manbij merely because the U.S. is paranoid about losing their land-grabbing war in Syria.

VGA

I don’t know how legitimate the kurdish government is but I want them to beat ISIS and get their own state. And screw Turkey by the way.

By heavy-handed intervention I meant toppling regimes and invading countries.

Jens Holm

Agree about the kurds. For the time being they are the only one given me some respect. I screw Turkey as Erdogan, Gull and AKP too.

Jens Holm

Agree about using words but its much more difficult for most westerns, than You say.

So whats the Shia milisias doing etnic cleansing helping Bagdad shias promissing also to kill all americans even thay are help trying to defeat ISIS ?

Those not nice guys wants to kill kurds in the north too.

Thats not Islamism – just about oil, honor, respect or what …

Catfish

The shia militias mentioned us enablers becoming targets if they continue after the us has repeatedly broken the agreement about the limits on troop numbers. Not sure what the latest number is but the us keeps sending more troops. The us also stopped the iraqi government from seeking an agreement for the deployment of Russian troops

Catfish

Well said, I agree completely with your assessment. There are documents declassified backing up much of what you said including the behavior of the criminals posing as the us government.

Jens Holm

Agree wit You VGA.

Read the same kind of un-useble words around Yemen and Kashmir yesterday.

Would be better to have an own state for people fighting al the time killing people like themselves and destroying the cil societies all over.

And exuses for that – everything they can find – even somethimg happend 1400 Years ago, USA, Zionists.

No mirrors – None. Everything is everybody elses fault included the worst kind of definitions of what honor and respect is.

Assad should give the weapon to the woman and let them shoot anyone, they want and Orlanda probatly would be a hot spot too. Too many fighting men seems to have learned to fight and think with their penises not learning to control tjhemselves.

And the women are learning to do nothing about it. Their succes is given, if they behave like sheeps jumping around in bullet rain among landmines trying to keep their first born BOY alive.

Jens Holm

Agree with VGA.

Do they have to keep Manbij or will come out by cookies and coffee and outside is a non smoking area. I dont think so.

Your other military thinking is same thing. You have to keep Manbij or others by not putting so many soldiers around it anymore. ISIS has tryed to get i back very much – Thats why its very important for many other things too.

You also dont get, that KPG and ekstra friends need god tranport themselves whatever they do next.

Kurds are the syrian people too. GET IT. The terrible wrong reason Assad and the Baads lost som much territory are thinking like that, Better to give it back to ISIS/Daesh.

You dont get it at all – The main reasons for the succes of the uprice is – ASSAD – not including 30% of the artificial territory and people living there as EQUAL CITISENS with CIVIL RIGTS.

Kurds havent even demanded Manbij as theirs. They have military groups, which are sunnis and made by inhabitants and the old Leadership in an alliance defeating ISIS.

Nothing to do with Assad.

Let me turn it around. Assad wouldnt be in Syria at all, if kurds in Afrin, Aleppo and along the northerns borders had been allied with ISIS and Busra – and Hisbollah as infanterists and russians bombing hospitals and civilians a la carte.

Assad is not at strong man unless You put pepper on him and certainly has never been leader of all Syria population. Think for the time, that Syria shoulb be diveded. It was a terrible mistake to make it one state and WW1 – borders .