If you play your cards right and don't take it all the time it can help, especially when you're wiped out. I'm just tired of sorting through all the "extreme" crap that's 400+ mg of caffeine with underdosed beta alanine, l-citrulline, and creatine

It seems clear you know what you want from your PWO so my suggestion is to make your own. It's not hard nor time consuming. Just buy it in bulk and make a big tub of it that'll last you forever. Nothing in the fitness industry is FDA approved so you could very well be buying chalk lol. I've heard some positive things about ephedrine if you really want a boost but the science on those aminos is shaky at best and should be the least of your worries if you're truly dedicated. Sleep and nutrition are going to be the biggest factors in your performance and progression not some pseduoscience bullcrap. Learning to recognize signs of fatigue will also come with time and will tell you when you just need to rest instead of grinding it out.

Honey Badger. Its sweetened with stevia rather than aspartame or sucralose and is a great product over all. I would also recommend that you look for something that has either citrulline malate or AKG as the first ingredient. Avoid "proprietary blends" without listing whats in the blend or the amounts, its a companies way of hiding how bad their product is.

> Honey Badger. Its sweetened with stevia rather than aspartame or sucralose and is

> a great product over all. I would also recommend that you look for something that

> has either citrulline malate or AKG as the first ingredient. Avoid "proprietary blends"

> without listing whats in the blend or the amounts, its a companies way of hiding

> how bad their product is.

I'm pretty pre workout savvy at this point, but my dumb ass took the Psychotic sample I got even though I KNEW it would be meh at best. This is one of those "crap your brains out and no pump" stim bombs.

I'm about to experiment with making my own. Me and my buddy have been meaning to experiment, since we'd like to make a transparent, simple PW that isn't loaded with caffeine. Eventually market it.

> I got even though I KNEW it would be meh at best. This is one of those "crap your

> brains out and no pump" stim bombs.

>

> I'm about to experiment with making my own. Me and my buddy have been meaning to

> experiment, since we'd like to make a transparent, simple PW that isn't loaded with

> caffeine. Eventually market it.

Its not that hard to make your own, you really only need a few ingredients. Just a word of caution, those supps, especially amino acids, taste like horrible on their own, like putting pennies in your mouth.

I have been toying around wtih making my own, but when I start adding in all the ingredients I just look at everything and what I will have to put together and just flake out and end up grabbing some C4 or something and go "well I will make some next time"

@theyrhere - if you make some successfully I will either buy some of your blend for cash or maybe we can work out some perfect formula and figure this out. Every web site tells me something different. Every "professional" gives me 30 ingredients I have to have, it's overwhelming. I just want the basic crap, some pump and some energy.

Would really love to make my own too, or figure out something decent to get, i am in the exact same boat.

> I'll flavor it with those little jolly rancher packets until I get more serious and

> use a manufacturer for the actual brand I want lol

I would suggest as dude up there did that you use stevia or some natural sweetener. Honestly I don't care about taste, it can taste like copper pennies for all I care, I mean it literally takes me 3 seconds to drink the stuff.

Me, too. Everything is either good but has 1,000 ingredients and is too expensive (pre-kaged), or underdosed crap prop blends. I've got the ingredients I want, next step is dropping $100 on them. That's a big supply, though.

Pshew I don't even know. I actually planned on testing different dosages on myself first to try what I like best. Some of the crap makes a crap ton, but some (like citrulline) only has maybe a 2 month supply.

Is this stuff really healthy for the average person who works out? I assume you guys aren't body builders and probably don't need these workout supplements. Especially ones that are thought to cause liver and kidney problems.

In short, if you take a few minutes to learn what you're consuming, yes. I have an infant and I'm absolutely wiped some days. It can give you motivation to go and have a good workout when you otherwise wouldn't. These aren't test boosters or anything. And I'd say taking a supplement when you need to stay at the gym regularly is much better than not going, wouldn't you?

Everything depends on what you take and how you take it. I know if I miss one workout I feel like crap and am more likely to miss more. I've put on 40 pounds of healthy weight since I started (I was 145 before). As long as you're not taking whatever has the most "insane" name every day, you'll be just fine.

Honestly, you're probably good with just AKG, Beta-alanine, and Citrulline Malate. I've personally never really been a big fan of using caffeine in my drinks (caffeine has no effect on me) and I've also never really liked any type of creatine weather its monohydrate, ethyl-ester, or kre-alkalyn, I've tried them all and never really noticed much.

Beta alanine, citrulline mallate, beet root extract, caffeine (from green coffee beans), theanine, glutamine, creatine mono (not in that order, but it you get it) Never had that exact mix, but I know most of those work for me. Haven't had beet root that I'm aware of, but heard good things, so I'm gonna try it.

Anybody on here ever tried Hi Tech 1AD? I tried the original 1AD back when I was in college with little success but thinking about trying it again. I know it's different now because the original formula was banned. Anybody tried this newer formula by this other company?

Yeah if I test anything it will be me buying and giving out samples to close friends (or, like longhorns said, split cost). I wouldn't actually turn any sort profit until I went through the proper channels, had a LLC and insurance, etc. When I do eventually get that far, I wanna be as by the book as possible. After buying and getting down dosage, next step is looking at manufacturers with a great rep.