Just wondering... What its the sector, linedef, vertice limits on vanilla?

because my maps are 100% vanilla but i think the sector limite would be a problem, but i cant remember if that was true, i remember something that i read about doom have some sector, linedef, vertice limits

a) It would require a very tiny, insignificant effort to package up a vanilla-freedoom IWAD that consists of the freedoom base texture, sprites, etc. and the DTWID maps (plus any musics and textures they add).

b) vanilla-freedoom can directly run in all source ports, even ones that don't yet exist today

c) It's the ideal complement to Chocolate Doom, and can be packaged with it, like for example how that Debian dude is trying to do.

d) Chocolate Doom is historically significant, and combining it with a set of maps that try to mimic id's mindset at the time makes it all that much more interesting.

e) A large number of contemporary mappers don't like to constrain themselves to vanilla limits, so there's plenty of talent available for finishing the Boom-engine IWAD.

Maybe we could get John Romero to release the original Doom map sources under the GPL like he did with the Quake map sources in 2006? Then a Freedoom version with the original vanilla maps could be made since the Modified BSD license that Freedoom uses is GPL compatible. It would seem resonable of him to release them as Doom is older than Quake anyway.

All these projects suffer from dwindling resources and personal to carry out the work.

Try taking the existing freedoom levels and replacing, or otherwise fixing the places where Boom features exist.
You might even give the original author a chance to submit a vanilla
version of their level first. This would give you a chance of completing this.

Don't the vanilla doom ports pretty much ignore the Boom features. Are there that many places where Boom features stop play in vanilla ports (besides VPO) ?

VPO's can be more difficult and may require a more heavy editing hand to eliminate. But it is no worse trying to reduce an existing level than it is making a new one that overruns the limits.

To fix limit overruns, mostly need to remove decorative sectors and lines, throw in some void walls to give the BSP a chance to prune.

Experiment on a couple levels, and see how long it takes, and how much has to be chopped.

After that you could replace levels as you wish, just like any other wad project.

Cire said:Maybe we could get John Romero to release the original Doom map sources under the GPL like he did with the Quake map sources in 2006? Then a Freedoom version with the original vanilla maps could be made since the Modified BSD license that Freedoom uses is GPL compatible. It would seem resonable of him to release them as Doom is older than Quake anyway.

This would be excellent, though I doubt John Romero is legally able to release the maps as such ... plus, even better would be to get the maps released under the same license as Freedoom itself.

I was actually thinking about this again, and possibly having another target for Freedoom to build a totally vanilla compatible IWAD (whoever provides the maps), though this might just add more complication...

Ah... to bad if that's the case. I really hope someone can release the Doom map sources, preferably under Freedoom's license as you said. It's been my dream. Could you explain why you think John wouldn't be legally able to do so?

Or people could just make some vanilla maps for the project if there were really any demand for it. Without the restrictions of mapping style imposed by a project like DTWiD, simple vanilla maps don't take long to make these days. I can bang one off in an afternoon, if I'm inclined.

Maybe we're reading that differently, but it sounds to me like he is giving permission to do anything you want with his work, so long as you give proper credit. That's very similar to the standard BSD license, right?

But if for some reason Debian won't accept it without a "standard" open source license blurb, then maybe whoever is in charge of Freedom releases can contact him. It looks like he has posted here recently (a couple months ago):http://www.doomworld.com/vb/members/Wraith/
So the email address should still be valid also.

hex11 said:Maybe we're reading that differently, but it sounds to me like he is giving permission to do anything you want with his work, so long as you give proper credit.

No, the way copyrights work is that all rights are withheld unless they are specifically granted. The wording has to make the granting of rights totally clear.

For instance, all those wads you see in the archive where someone has replaced the standard permissions text with something like "Fuck copyrights, I don't give a shit!" are unintentionally withholding all rights.

hex11 said:But if for some reason Debian won't accept it without a "standard" open source license blurb, then maybe whoever is in charge of Freedom releases can contact him. It looks like he has posted here recently (a couple months ago):http://www.doomworld.com/vb/members/Wraith/
So the email address should still be valid also.

Without some style to hold it together it would be no better than a collection of PWAD off a Doom wad CD. There are plenty of those already.
Any level made in an afternoon (or even a week) is going to be of that quality. Quality levels take weeks and months of tweaking them, removing ideas that did not work, and finding all the HOM, mismatched textures, and even realizing what the best gameplay features were in the level and enhancing them.
That is why I think starting with levels that already have all that work in them will get better results and some chance of have a wad in a couple of years.

After all these years we are still missing a level in FreeDoom and some of the sprites are still white squares that say FreeDoom.

Grazza said:No, the way copyrights work is that all rights are withheld unless they are specifically granted. The wording has to make the granting of rights totally clear.

For instance, all those wads you see in the archive where someone has replaced the standard permissions text with something like "Fuck copyrights, I don't give a shit!" are unintentionally withholding all rights.

Perhaps some sort of time-limited community project, a la 32in24, with the aim of making low-detail vanilla maps to be used with Freedoom would help. There would be no confusion about rights granted, and even a handful of submissions would be very helpful. And of course just because the maps are vanilla doesn't mean they can't also be included in the Boom-compatible Freedoom.

I'm aware that an early 32in24 had a single-player theme and didn't get many submissions, but perhaps emphasizing the low-detail classic style would help; either way, that particular 32in24 still netted 7 maps, a number which would help Freedoom immensely.