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Dave - your Yeshua was alleged to have been born about 4 AD, and was purported to have expired at 33, making his supposed death as being 29 AD - Josephus was born in 37 AD, 8 years later - how old do you suppose he was when he began writing history, 20? 30? That would mean the "eyewitnesses" you say he interviewed, and from whom he would have gotten his hearsay information that, as I've mentioned earlier (but you seem to have disregarded), would not hold up in any court of inquiry, but upon which we are supposed to rely as proving the existence of a junior deity, were interviewed 28 to 38 years after the fact, if indeed it was a fact, that he interviewed these eye-witnesses. Now we must realize that the "eyewitness testimony" of anyone who was under 20 when they witnessed the "miracles," would not have a reliable memory of those events. But we also have to consider, that after 28 - to 38 years, that same person would have been 48 to 58 years old. I would normally distrust hearsay testimony under any circumstances, but you're asking us to accept hearsay testimony from a 28- to 38-year old memory, as reason to believe that there was a son of god made magic, died and arose from the dead.

RE: "Now you dispute the outsiders historical documents." - what outside documents, the ones written by guys who were born even later than Josephus?

RE: "There is little doubt that he died on the Cross" - there is no evidence that he did.

RE: "Where is your evidence to the contrary? Show me first century accounts that dispute these and I will consider them."

Wherever you've been taking debating lessons, you need to insist on your money back. Can you really imagine newspaper headlines in the year 29, reading: "EXTRA! YESHUA DIDN'T DIE ON THE CROSS! ALSO, NO ONE HAS INVENTED THE AUTOMOBILE!"

Yes he does. He created hell for the purpose of having people go there. He sends you there. Saying "God doesn't send you to hell, you do that with your choices" is like saying Hitler doesn't send Jews to concentration camps. They did that by choosing to remain Jewish.

What Jesus did was show you the way to God and he intercedes for us.

So Jesus (aka God 2.0) decided to show us how to have him forgive us for a sin he placed on us. And the way he can get himself to forgive us is by having himself tortured and killed so he can show himself how he is benevolent and willing to die for us in order to forgive us....At what point does he intercede for us? Did he stop the planes from crashing into the Twin Towers and Pentagon? Did he stop Hitler during WW2, or Stalin afterwards? Did he stop the Christian crusaders from slaughtering so many innocents in their conquest of the "holy land"? Did he save the victims of all the natural disasters, which according to religion come from him, since he created everything. The list of atrocities that can be laid at his feet goes on and on.

A quote that sums all this up is one by Epicurus: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

The evidence of his resurrection and his appearances afterward are plain. The Roman, Greek and Hebrew historians of the 1st century validate what is in the Bible regarding Jesus.

Ummm, where is this proof? Outside of your bible. Links please.

I ask you: If you have evidence presented to you, would you change your mind?

I ask you the same thing. If you have evidence of evolution, the age of the Earth, the big bang, and evidence that contradicts your bible and every god that has ever existed, would you change your mind? Because science keeps piling the evidence pretty high.

You have plenty of evidence of his goodness.

Where? In the genocides, homophobia, crusades, witch hunts, misogynism, anti-semetism, religious persecution, threats of eternal torture? Let's not forget plagues, refusing to heal amputees, but helping win the Super Bowl, and the list goes on.At what point exactly is he good?

I left as well my belief and was an atheist most of my adult life until I found that that life was void and had no hope.

Do explain please. Other than being afraid of death, as you would have to be to say that life is void and with no hope unless you are on your knees in front of a priest and an invisible dictator.The simple fact that you even got a chance to exist, instead of so many that could have been here in your place, should fill you with infinite joy.

if you believe and he is not real - you lose nothing. If he is real and you believe, you gain everything.

Pascal's Wager... weaksauce. Please let us know which "He" should we believe in? Because there has been about 2500 gods in our history. Which of the 2500 is the real one, and how do you come to that conclusion, and on what grounds do you dismiss the other 2499, aside from ignorance of their existence?And what do you really gain? Eternity to grovel at the invisible feet of a tyrant? To quote the late Hitch, an eternal North Korea.

Straw men arguments you expound are the weakest. Genocide? did you ever consider why God would do that? Did you explore his reasons and consider it? No. Atheists try to use this as an excuse but it seems contradictory: God does not exist because he did genocide. But if he does not exist, the he cannot do genocide. So atheist contradict what they say with this argument. Besides, you are stating a moral judgment about God, not a reason he does not exist. No wonder only about 1 in 10 folks are atheist with this kind of reason given.

I have been looking fro good reasons and ave not found any reasonable arguments without straw men, misuse of scripture, or a wrong understanding of what Christians believe.

I would like to hear good reasons, not opinions riddled with bad language (maybe not you but plenty of others)

Every single person on the planet is an Atheist. Muslims do not believe in Christianity, Christians do not believe Hinduism, etc, etc, etc. We are all without most religious beliefs but it just so happens that many of us are without all religious beliefs. In developed nations that aren't failing (like the U.S.A) most people don't believe in any invisible skymonsters.

When we point out the moral contradictions in your mythology it doesn't mean that, even for a second, we lend any credence to your Bronze Age beliefs.

Speaking of that, I got an email last night from a good friend who reminded me that just a few short years ago Americans had idols to live up to - Steve Jobs, Bob Hope, Johnny Cash, but now they're gone, and America has no jobs, no hope and no cash --

Why didn't Josephus ever convert to Christianity? I mean, given the words attributed to him about Jesus, you would think he would have been fascinated. Of course most of those words were not his, as is documented by scholarly research. Furthermore, you have yet to offer me a single contemporary source. Why wasn't there a single person alive at the time of Jesus who took note of 'multitudes' experiencing miracles? Why do the historical accounts only start to take note of the growing cult decades after the alleged crucifiction?

First of all Dave, no one is saying that god did genocide, because everyone on this site knows that god doesn't exist - they're saying to theists, why would you worship a god capable of doing this? Not because they actually believe that he exists and that he did, but because the theist's book SAYS he did, yet they worship him despite of what their book says he is responsible for.

Secondly Dave, you are not here looking for answers, you're looking for opinions that match your own, and from all indications of what those are, you won't find them here.

A third possibility is that you're here to "stump" us, and in that regard, Davy boy, you are WAY our of your league.

RE: "misuse of scripture" - if that phrase refers to any of my comments, please demonstrate that the scripture was misused, I'll wait --