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i'm under the impression that the cut off point is roughly at 23 or 24 lbs. After that, that's when the tighter it is, the less power there is. Could be just me though.

I think that depends on the person - I'm sure Fu Haifeng would complain loudly about anything below 30 lbs Also, feeling and fact are not always the same - so I could lose power abouve 23 for all I know. 25 feels much more powerful though, and 28 just feels BETTER. Clears do actually feel a lot easier at 26/27 than at 25, and roughly the same at 28. Drop shots are like 60% more accurate though (~15-30cm divergence w/o pressure rather than ~50) As a defensive, accuracy-based player (in singles), that's worth the 15-20% power I sacrifice. My smash isn't impressive either way.

here i offer an explanation why we need 2 more lbs on the cross string. actually quite trivial and i wonder why no one has brought it up.

the first pound.

let imagine the situation in which we have a good 6-pt machine.

we weave and tension mains string first, and then we weave and tension the cross string. when we tension the main string, the strings are a straight line when tensioned. without loss of generality, let say we first tension the mains to 20lbs.

then we weave and tension the cross at 20lbs. notice now that after the tensioning, the mains are no longer straight as they are weaved with the cross. the result of the mains being displaced and since the frame isn't moving, the tension will have to go up. by how much is anybody's guess, but my guess would be say 1 lb?

now, if the mains goes up by 1lb, then we have to increase the cross tension to 21lb to compensate for the difference.

the second pound.

i believe if we have good support, 1lb or so is all we need. many have said that if we have a machine with no support, we need 2 pounds to compensate the distorted frame. i think that is a legitimate argument.

collorary:

what else can we find from this?

well, one observation i can see is that, if we tension, eg. 20/22, the resultant mains tension is actually higher than 20. and imho, more like 21 or so.

does that make sense?

I am a regular player and a recently qualified racket stringer. I have heard this argument before but having tried it with my own rackets I cannot say that stringing the crosses at 2lbs higher than the mains has any real benefit in the way the racket performs. So in the example above I would either string both mains and crosses at 20lbs or both at 21lbs or both at 22lbs. Yes, the mains will move slightly in play but they will even if the crosses are tensioned higher. Stringing the mains at 20lbs and the crosses at 22lbs to get an average result of 21lbs? - there is no noticeable benefit by doing this compared to stringing both mains and crosses at 21lbs.

I think the explanation from Kwun sounds very plausible. I don't know why, but it just sounds correct. I think it still applies for machines with very good supports.
I myself have a Pro's Pro Pioneer, 6 pt drop weight machine. Don't know if it is known as a good or bad machine. Anyone of you have heard about it? I just never had problems with it. Unlike J4ckie, I don't experience any warping when stringing 2+ on crosses. I always string 2+. Never tried M=C though.
I string my own rackets at 29/31 pounds. I twice strung a friends racket (YY AS10) at 36/38 (although with Dinks method of first 4 crosses at 36, next 5 crosses at 37, and the rest at 38) and the racket still kept its shape. Maybe 1 or 2 mm off, could be. I also always do the last mains and last cross on 2+.

If this is so, do I have to specify to the stringer that I want +2lbs on the cross. Or do they already take that into consideration?

This Panda thinks he's mentioned the below before but will say it again:

1) Adding additional tension on the cross is not always necessary. It depends on the stringing machine and stringer (to know whether or not the increase is needed).

2) A machine with good side supports will not need any adjustments; meaning main = cross; 30 x 30lbs.
It's only the machines with lesser side supports that need the increase in the crosses.

So how do you or your stringer know if an increase is needed? Trial and error.
a) If the machine is unknown, you string a racket the way you normally do; in this Panda's instance M=C, 30 x 30.
b) If the racket shape comes out the same or nearly the same (with 1mm) of the original unstrung shape, you're good.
c) If the racket shape comes out a bit round (and will be shorter in overall length), you know you need to increase the cross tension.
d) How much to increase it again depends, but a good rule of thumb is 10%. So now Panda would try 29 x 31 and see the results.
e) Then fine tune from there, if necessary.

A prime example of side support madness:

Panda purchased an Eagnas Combo 910.

1) With the stock side supports, Panda would have to string at 29 x 33 to get the correct shape (4lbs. difference)
2) With the upgraded SP Tennis Side Supports strung at 30 x 32 (2lbs. difference)
3) With the upgraded SP Tennis and poly tubing, 30.5 x 31.5 (1lb. difference)
3) With the final upgrade, Michal Chudek Side Supports, 31 x 31 (main = cross)

Not all stringers are going to know this info. The ones that do, that have experience, they know right away. The ones that don't, they simply do not and explaining to them can be difficult.

One last note: stringing machines and stringing methods may differ too.

At this year's 2011 U.S. Open, Panda was stringing with the ES5Pro and ES5ProTech. On these machines, you're supposed to mount the racket very high on the side supports, on the 5th cross string from the top between A10 and A11. Stringing 30 x 30, the rackets came out perfect...

...on Panda's machine, the top supports are about 1/4" below the 6th cross...

...Panda tried the Yonex way on his machine and the racket came out very round.

The key is to get a stringer who knows his machine and you should be OK.

Final Note: 24lbs. tension and below, cross/main ratio is not too significant. 25-28lbs. significant. 29+lbs. it becomes very significant.

This Panda thinks he's mentioned the below before but will say it again:

1) Adding additional tension on the cross is not always necessary. It depends on the stringing machine and stringer (to know whether or not the increase is needed).

2) A machine with good side supports will not need any adjustments; meaning main = cross; 30 x 30lbs.
It's only the machines with lesser side supports that need the increase in the crosses.

So how do you or your stringer know if an increase is needed? Trial and error.
a) If the machine is unknown, you string a racket the way you normally do; in this Panda's instance M=C, 30 x 30.
b) If the racket shape comes out the same or nearly the same (with 1mm) of the original unstrung shape, you're good.
c) If the racket shape comes out a bit round (and will be shorter in overall length), you know you need to increase the cross tension.
d) How much to increase it again depends, but a good rule of thumb is 10%. So now Panda would try 29 x 31 and see the results.
e) Then fine tune from there, if necessary.

A prime example of side support madness:

Panda purchased an Eagnas Combo 910.

1) With the stock side supports, Panda would have to string at 29 x 33 to get the correct shape (4lbs. difference)
2) With the upgraded SP Tennis Side Supports strung at 30 x 32 (2lbs. difference)
3) With the upgraded SP Tennis and poly tubing, 30.5 x 31.5 (1lb. difference)
3) With the final upgrade, Michal Chudek Side Supports, 31 x 31 (main = cross)

Not all stringers are going to know this info. The ones that do, that have experience, they know right away. The ones that don't, they simply do not and explaining to them can be difficult.

One last note: stringing machines and stringing methods may differ too.

At this year's 2011 U.S. Open, Panda was stringing with the ES5Pro and ES5ProTech. On these machines, you're supposed to mount the racket very high on the side supports, on the 5th cross string from the top between A10 and A11. Stringing 30 x 30, the rackets came out perfect...

...on Panda's machine, the top supports are about 1/4" below the 6th cross...

...Panda tried the Yonex way on his machine and the racket came out very round.

The key is to get a stringer who knows his machine and you should be OK.

Final Note: 24lbs. tension and below, cross/main ratio is not too significant. 25-28lbs. significant. 29+lbs. it becomes very significant.

Thanks for the very detailed reply, appreciate that you took the time to write it. Now I know a lot more

My local sports shop has a tecnifibre digital stringing machine, not sure of the model though. Is this a good brand with stock side supports that wouldn't need additional tension on the cross? I'm not sure if the stringers there really are good in stringing but they have this certification seal posted in their store.

My local sports shop has a tecnifibre digital stringing machine, not sure of the model though. Is this a good brand with stock side supports that wouldn't need additional tension on the cross? I'm not sure if the stringers there really are good in stringing but they have this certification seal posted in their store.

Neither would anyone of us here who have not been to your local sports shop know.

The only way to know is to find out yourself. Give them your racquet and see what they can do. "Trial and error".

This Panda thinks he's mentioned the below before but will say it again:

1) Adding additional tension on the cross is not always necessary. It depends on the stringing machine and stringer (to know whether or not the increase is needed).

2) A machine with good side supports will not need any adjustments; meaning main = cross; 30 x 30lbs.
It's only the machines with lesser side supports that need the increase in the crosses.

So how do you or your stringer know if an increase is needed? Trial and error.
a) If the machine is unknown, you string a racket the way you normally do; in this Panda's instance M=C, 30 x 30.
b) If the racket shape comes out the same or nearly the same (with 1mm) of the original unstrung shape, you're good.
c) If the racket shape comes out a bit round (and will be shorter in overall length), you know you need to increase the cross tension.
d) How much to increase it again depends, but a good rule of thumb is 10%. So now Panda would try 29 x 31 and see the results.
e) Then fine tune from there, if necessary.

A prime example of side support madness:

Panda purchased an Eagnas Combo 910.

1) With the stock side supports, Panda would have to string at 29 x 33 to get the correct shape (4lbs. difference)
2) With the upgraded SP Tennis Side Supports strung at 30 x 32 (2lbs. difference)
3) With the upgraded SP Tennis and poly tubing, 30.5 x 31.5 (1lb. difference)
3) With the final upgrade, Michal Chudek Side Supports, 31 x 31 (main = cross)

Not all stringers are going to know this info. The ones that do, that have experience, they know right away. The ones that don't, they simply do not and explaining to them can be difficult.

One last note: stringing machines and stringing methods may differ too.

At this year's 2011 U.S. Open, Panda was stringing with the ES5Pro and ES5ProTech. On these machines, you're supposed to mount the racket very high on the side supports, on the 5th cross string from the top between A10 and A11. Stringing 30 x 30, the rackets came out perfect...

...on Panda's machine, the top supports are about 1/4" below the 6th cross...

...Panda tried the Yonex way on his machine and the racket came out very round.

The key is to get a stringer who knows his machine and you should be OK.

Final Note: 24lbs. tension and below, cross/main ratio is not too significant. 25-28lbs. significant. 29+lbs. it becomes very significant.

therefore, I always recommend adding ~2lbs for crosses to start, either for trial or whatever.

No, you should not always recommend adding 2lbs.; it depends on the machine. If it's a machine with excellent side supports such as the ES5Pro/ProTech or similar, you won't need the extra tension on the cross.

If the machine is one with lesser side supports then I would suggest +2lbs. on the cross.

Again, it depends on the machine. If it's your machine or one you are familiar with, you will know what to do, no problem. If you are not familiar with the machine, ask someone who knows. It will save you a string job or two.

well, i don't have that expensive set-up, and hence the recommendation of +2lbs.

Well, that recommendation applies for your machine. You have to understand that not everyone has the same machine as you, thus why recommend "Always add 2lbs, [no matter what case]"?

For instance with my usual string jobs on a relatively cheap portable 6-point machine at 32 to 33lbs, I am able to do uniform tension with no additional tension to the cross and am still able to get the racquet frame to retain the original shape. Stringer technique plus experience with machines are still more important than the universal recommendation of +2lbs.

Well, that recommendation applies for your machine. You have to understand that not everyone has the same machine as you, thus why recommend "Always add 2lbs, [no matter what case]"?

For instance with my usual string jobs on a relatively cheap portable 6-point machine at 32 to 33lbs, I am able to do uniform tension with no additional tension to the cross and am still able to get the racquet frame to retain the original shape. Stringer technique plus experience with machines are still more important than the universal recommendation of +2lbs.

why not? have you tried +2lbs and see what happens to the racket AND tension? you maybe surprised.

one experiment made me to ALWAYS recommend +2lbs is following:

- strung three identical rackets. First one with 26x28, second one with 28x28, and last one with 26x26.
- used the same string (from the same spool) and same stringing pattern. of course, same machine (cheap 6-point portable with manual crank), same stringer (me) and same technique (I hope). Started with empty racket on the machine, and finished each one of them using around the same amount of time (~30 minutes each).
- Then, I checked the pitch on them to see how tension may be like (remember saw it somewhere that this has been accepted as one easy way to tell the tension, and I think I have very good tuned ears from violin and piano).
- the finding: 26x28 has the same pitch as that of 28x28, and 26x26 is definitely much lower pitch. this remains the same after the rackets have been on the shelf for a period of several days.
- PLUS: the tested racket were very slightly "fatter" on 28x28 or 26x26 against original shape.

Conclusion: I'd rather to stay with LOWER tension combination and get the same pitch (tension???) at the end.

this is also the base for my "ALWAYS" recommendation for +~2 lbs.

PS: please don't ask me why about the pitch and tension since I couldn't justify the reason from physics I know of. maybe my ears are not that tuned at all, which is why I am not a musician!

I am not trying to argue your finding, but to express my experience, and things I have heard from other stringers. Maybe it's good for someone to do a research project on this topics.

why not? have you tried +2lbs and see what happens to the racket AND tension? you maybe surprised.

one experiment made me to ALWAYS recommend +2lbs is following:

- strung three identical rackets. First one with 26x28, second one with 28x28, and last one with 26x26.
- used the same string (from the same spool) and same stringing pattern. of course, same machine (cheap 6-point portable with manual crank), same stringer (me) and same technique (I hope). Started with empty racket on the machine, and finished each one of them using around the same amount of time (~30 minutes each).
- Then, I checked the pitch on them to see how tension may be like (remember saw it somewhere that this has been accepted as one easy way to tell the tension, and I think I have very good tuned ears from violin and piano).
- the finding: 26x28 has the same pitch as that of 28x28, and 26x26 is definitely much lower pitch. this remains the same after the rackets have been on the shelf for a period of several days.
- PLUS: the tested racket were very slightly "fatter" on 28x28 or 26x26 against original shape.

Conclusion: I'd rather to stay with LOWER tension combination and get the same pitch (tension???) at the end.

this is also the base for my "ALWAYS" recommendation for +~2 lbs.

PS: please don't ask me why about the pitch and tension since I couldn't justify the reason from physics I know of. maybe my ears are not that tuned at all, which is why I am not a musician!

I am not trying to argue your finding, but to express my experience, and things I have heard from other stringers. Maybe it's good for someone to do a research project on this topics.

Again, a poll about this topic may help as well.

I do not understand your logic of having to string three racquets (all of the same model and make) at your suggested tensions then comparing them side by side, while what I have done myself is to just string one at my usual uniform tension (for example 32x32lbs) then compare the strung racquet with the unstrung racquet. What I will do next is to use a measuring tape and measure the longest vertical and horizontal lengths on the racquet frame, plus some more specific points such as 10 and 2 o'clock.

What I have noticed is that with my technique and machine, I am able to get the shape of the strung racquet to be exactly the same dimensions (or measurements) as the unstrung racquet. I have also done racquets in the past at 31x32lbs (to get the overall of 32lbs) and even though the pitch is almost the same as you pointed out (albeit very slightly lower), the overall hitting feel is actually slightly stiffer for the uniform tension job. The string tension on the uniform tension job also lasts slightly longer especially with the thicker strings that I usually use. And that is the way I like my racquets strung