Ok I admit it, this is the first time I have made a beer which tasted good at first then aged and finished gross.

It's so bad I tried to pass one off on my Dad who is a bud drinker but loves all kinds of beer (don't ask). And he said it tasted like "soapy dish water". I agree its a lack luster beer, it's a mild that's very bland, nothing to it really.

What can I do with it, short of tossing it, which is what I'm thinking? I would feel sad though dumping a case and a half of beer? Any thoughts? Or addresses I'll mail it so you can see for yourself

What kind of beer is it? What do you mean by bad? Does it tast skunked? Was it exposed to lots of light, oxygen before bottling? Did you do anything different or encounter some difficulties while making it?

I'd be patient and see what happens. Worse comes to worse, cook with it or give it away to someone who doesn't mind it.

Howabout making an investigation and trying to find out what happened? This way you may get insured it doesn't happen again and the beer wont be just wasted. I think if you have learned something it's never a waste.

I for one am very curious about how things go wrong How long was it stored? what temp? What was the receipe? pitching rate? oxygenation? primary time? secondary time? aeration during bottling, racking?

It's not going to save the beer, but it's always worth something to understand what is the cause? Then save some bottles for science, toss the rest

What does aged mean? 2 weeks in a bottle might get carbonation but most styles improve with a little more time.

Is it bottled or kegged? If it is bottles you might be seeing some bottle shock. Wine makers deal with this all the time. It tastes good going into the bottle, tastes like sh*t in one month, it is good in 6 months, nirvana in 2 years. It looks like it is bottles based on your note store it for 4 weeks and try it then you might be surprised.

Based solely on that description alone ( I hate to even suggest this) I'd go with autolysis. I believe that when yeast cells break apart they dump fatty acids into the beer which can lend a soapy, fatty taste. This is just a guess.

> Or, call it Belgium.

I've never had a belgaiN beer taste like dishwater. Horse? Yes. But not dishwater.

I had a similar loss -- last winter's Wee Heavy. According to my notes, it was "delicious" when racked in March and "wonderful" when bottled in June. But after 5 months in the crawlspace, it was gushing mildly and tasted of nothing except wet cardboard. Totally ruined.

The gush initially made me think infection. But there were no bottle rings, odors, or off-flavors other than the cardboard. And the mouthfeel was fine. So I settled on oxidation or heat damage (the crawlspace did get warm this summer).

I saved a few bottles to cook with and dumped the rest. I know that is sacreligious, but I've got 200+ bottles of *good* homebrew waiting to be drunk -- why waste energy on a goner? Made me sad, though. I'd really been looking forward to drinking that.

Boiled for 60 with kent goldings pellets to the tune of 20 IBU. The SG was 1.040 (high I know) Then a late addition one ounce of Fuggles (plug)

Fermented semi open / 67-68F, lid on and then after Krausen lid resting on top for four days. After 2 weeks in primary gravity dipped to 1.016. Transfered to secondary boiled/ chilled and added another 1/2 lb of brown sugar just for fun. Aged in secondary 2 weeks, then into the tap a draft, primed with sugar cubes.

After 2 more weeks checked for carbonation and served. Not bad after 6 weeks its very light and bland despite some flavor. 2-3 weeks later not much better!

After two months I'm ready to dump it. There is no sign at all of contamination, Trust me with a beer this light it would show up like a sore thumb.

The one thing that puzzels me is the lack of brown sugar flavor, I mean nothing? Maybe I'll have to use a darker kind next time.

I think the only thig I will change if I ever make this is add the whole lb of sugar use a darker kind like I said and maybe add 2 oz of a dark grain to add complexity. Plus a higher mash temp like 156F.

I think it's just that milds are not my thing, I'd rather have the porter that's on deck

The procedure of boiling the beer between primary and secondary is an odd one. I'm wondering if the beer was oxidized in the process. As for the brown sugar, it does not have much flavor, especially the light brown variety. Sugar primarily contributes alcohol without increasing body. Perhaps you were seeking the flavor that molasses would contribute.

Boy, I agree with Denny 100% on milds. All my milds suck and tasted crappy, with one exception - a 1.060 mild. IMHO, gregory's recipe is a recipe for dullsville.

Greg, that indeed is a burbot, or ling as we call them here in Montana. I believe those of the cheesehead persuasion refer to them as eelpouts. They are indigenous to North American from Montana north to above the Arctic Circle - I have seem them swimming in a lake in the Gates of the Actric wilderness area.

Chumley, I caught one of those years ago while on a half-drunken fishing trip to Reindeer Lake on the northern Manitoba-Saskatchewan border. I'm not much of a fisherman but I'll have to say I never saw so many fish in my life, including species I've never encountered before or since. We would bait crusts of bread on a hook and catch enough fish for dinner in less than 10 minutes.

As for mild ales, I've got a recipe that has proved very popular. A good mild has flavor and drinkability without seeming weak and watery.

>>As for mild ales, I've got a recipe that has proved very popular. A good mild has flavor and drinkability without seeming weak and watery.

Okay, spit it out, Bill. After brewing your St. Chucks Porter, I am ready to try your mild recipe, 'cause I used to brew crappy porters until I brewed yours.

I have a tube of WLP002 English Ale yeast ready for immediate brewing. If that is not what you use in your mild recipe, and can suggest a tweak or two to the grain bill and mashing schedule, then please do so. Otherwise it will have to wait until May when I start brewing ales in earnest again and will order the proper yeast.

Btw, what do you guys use beer for in cooking? I know of porter steak which is great, but anything else? I tried ordinary lager beer in a sauce once and it just didn't fit. In cooking I tend to prefer more wine, but I would love to get some more ideas to try! Tonight for dinner I have planned to make grilled herbs chicken filets with redwine sauce and my gf is making potatoe gratin, it's awesome. To that I've got two new commercial english ales I've never tried before, it will be interesting! One is Spitfire (Shepard Neame), and the other one is Hobogoblin, has anyone tried these beers?

Thanks for the recipes, Bill and Guy. Looks like one of the more important factors is a high mash temperature (upper 150s). I'll have to try this in late February/early March when it warms up a bit here - right now I have to take advantage of the fact that my basement temperature is 50°F, and brew lagers.

Yes, one of the keys to a flavorful mild is to keep the saccharification temperature high so as to increase the body of this low gravity beer. Other techniques would be to include Carapils malt (perhaps 5 percent) and to use a thicker mash than normal (1.0-1.1 quarts of water per pound of grain). These were some of the things we did during my time brewing in Utah where beers are limited to 4.0 percent alcohol by volume.

I was just playing around with some formulations for a mild, and was thinking of doing something really "different," like using 95+% pale and just some chocolate malt or maybe even black patent to make up the difference. Purposely go really simple and pure, and avoid a complex grain bill and the resulting complex taste profile. Hop to ~14 IBU with Fuggle or Goldings and call it a day.

According to the Style Profile on milds in the Nov. 2003 BYO, a low 150's sacc rest is appropriate for this style to keep the body fairly thin.

Perhaps it depends on whether you're trying to brew a traditionally correct mild (which were made with the last runnings of a big mash) or simply a low alc. brown ale.

I'm intersted in any thoughts on what a pale/black patent mild might come out like. More and more I'm thinking I need a really tiny (1-2 gal) pilot system for new brews, especially when I realize my goal of a 1 bbl rig!

My impression of modern English milds, based on tasting only one commercial example and talking to folks that have visited England, is that they are watery beers, brewed as cheaply as possible so that they can be sold cheaply. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I think that is the general rule. It is a dying beer.

That wasn't always the case. Milds in the 1800's had OGs anywhere from the high 50s to the 70s.

You can make them what ever way you want. However one thing I tried to do was create complexity through revese. For example make a light ale that tasted heavy. So next time I'll try a High sac rest, torrifed wheat, 1/2 lb of dark crystal, maybe 2 oz of roast or chocolate, and a under attenuate strain. Thanks guys.........

Oh fredrik be sure and pick up this books on eating with beer.....

The Brewmaster's Table : Discovering the Pleasures of Real Beer with Real Food

It's a good book about matching styles with food, The only thing that gets on your nerves is his constant proof that beer is better to eat with than wine? That's personal taste and I don't think can be proved, though I admire his effort to raise beer awareness.

The next book in the series is about cooking with beer and should either be out or soon. Its big well written and comprehensive.

Next please. Spitfire and Hobgoblin please line up with bishop finger. I just realized these typical english "ales" aren't my kind of beer one bit. I guess in a way they are balanced, if you just like that touch of fuesels and I don't. It's diluted carbonated whiskey to me.

I second the recommendation for The Brewmaster's Table. Garrett Oliver, the author, is brewmaster at Brooklyn Brewery and has a background (more than 20 years) as both brewer and chef. He writes eloquently and intelligently on pairing beer and food and makes a credible argument that beer is even more versatile than wine and deserves to be used more in our cuisine.

Of course renowned beer writer Michael Jackson knows more than a little about beer and food and makes frequent serving suggestions in his books and his articles. It's worth browsing his website: http://www.beerhunter.com

I have to agree with Fredrik. Lately my local beer supplier has been getting these English ales in with fancy bottles and/or labels. Stuff like Monty Python's Holy Grail, Monkman's Slaughter, Black Sheep Ale, etc. Invariably I am disappointed when I try them. I didn't think them necessarily as being high in fusel flavors, but more like thin-bodied with nasty hop flavor. Maybe its using Challenger hops? I tried using Challenger hops this summer in a bitter, and did not care for them. I think I will stick with EKG and Fuggles.

With these "micro-brewed" English ales, the old standards also have been coming in as well. These I like. Stuff like Pedigree Bitter and Ramrod.

Spitfire uses kentish hops according to the bottle (whatever that is). Both these beer was relatively low in bitterness, Spitfire very low IMO. Hobgoblin was more bitter than spitfire though. A little bit roast/coffe with fuesels in both. I agree too with the description of them beeing dilute/thin. It's not ALOT of fuesels, but a little, and I can't stand it. Sometimes a little is just too much. At least in that configuration, perhaps with something else to balance it out it would be better.

I think I finished my opinion on english ales with expensive labels ;) I like leffe blonde, so I think I'm going to try some more different belgians to explore them more.

I tried chimay blue, which I didn't like. From what I recall a burn & bitterness that was almost overpowering. Though I might try it again. At the time I tried several beers the same night so maybe I should give it another chance.

That's a good list of Belgians, Fredrik. It's an acquired taste, but the gueuze is a particularly good one. Sample these beers over time and enjoy what you like. In general, the stronger and darker beers benefit from a somewhat warmer serving temperature, say, 9-11 C (48-52 F).

Try the Duvel, Fredrik, at 32°F. Pour it into a goblet. Be prepared for a huge amount of foam. Enjoy the lacey head that never subsides to the bottom of the glass. Trust me on this one - you'll see a head on that beer that will give you a chubby.

Hey Fredrik, Try Chimay with - don't laugh - toffe flavored ice cream. Take a spoon of ice cream and follow it with the Chimay. The Chimay will explode in your mouth and the flavors will be unbelievable! I give credit: Fred E. did this at Dixie Cup.