Crane wrote:The worst thing in the industry (not only adult but also mainstream industry) is underage or underage-looking sexualized characters.

Well, You do well to steer clear of DA aka deviantart then.

As they allow a bizarre practice to go on there, 3D artwork of children in suggestive poses and in slight sexual poses, some fully dressed, some semi dressed, some completely nude, most are prepubescent girls, and then You have the other side of it, real life pics of prepubescent girls normally on a beach or whatever, these kids are not even the kids of the person taking the pics, sort of like creepy weird stalking of kids, verging on fan art or worse.

Yea so DA allow all of that to go on and call it art

Yet if a 3D artist doing artwork of adults 18 and over on DA, happens to put up a render containing an erect penis, oh hell yea, all hell breaks loose, warnings from mods to remove it or else.

I hope we all agree that nobody chooses his sexual obsession/ defiance himself, if so, I think the most people would choose a nice society-accepted sexual preference for which they are able to find a lot of potential partners.And for sure not something which costs them a lot of money to get satisfied or even forces them to watch illegal things (talking about normal and empathic people).

So where to draw the line then, personal I find females with tits bigger than themselves and bleeding females with chopped off heads gross, but you can find a lot images with that stuff at DA.And it's true, if nobody gets hurt, talking about stuff like 3D-renders or drawings, what is the issue and who am I to judge other peoples fetishes ?

How will you find the rules what to allow and what not, personal esthetics, the opinon of the majority, why you can see real scat stuff everywhere but faked zoophilia is forbidden (in most countries) ?In my opinion, the biggest problem with that are sociopathic people and children of a certain age, sociopaths might use it to move towards real life action, some not so well socialized children might try it themselves and traumatize others and some children might get an obsession from which they will suffer their whole life.

In an ideal world you would have all this stuff in protected areas, in our world with an everywhere accessible internet and a lot of parents who don't care what their children are watching, I see no real solution for that...

P.S. And again, to be not misunderstood, I'm talking about watching faked stuff and not to pratice this stuff in real life.

Mik wrote:In my opinion, the biggest problem with that are sociopathic people and children of a certain age, sociopaths might use it to move towards real life action, some not so well socialized children might try it themselves and traumatize others and some children might get an obsession from which they will suffer their whole life.

It has been debunked times over and over that violent games/movies/music doesn't make violent people. Any kid who doesn't grow up in a healthy and peaceful way will somehow - save for rare exceptions - show social disorders, no matter if he plays erotic games of Grad Theft Auto. He might not even play any game, watch any movie or listen to any music that he'll show the same social deviancies. It's the medium that you grown up in that defines you, your morals, your social boundaries, your knowledge of what's right and wrong. Not playing X or Y rape game.And if anyone is really a sociopath then it won't matter. The social/mental disorder is there no matter what. He'll act on it if he's not medicated or taken care of. 99% of people can trace a boundary between what's a fantasy moment playing a rape game and what's reality. they have the mental structure to define moral imperatives. Laws for the porn and erotic industry should be made acknowledging that 99% of people are reasonable and - despite letting their fantasies go free in private - can live in society and respect on another. Otherwise, I don't get why people can buy guns, knifes, cars. 99% can act civilized with those objects that can harm anyone. But there's always the 1% who can't. What disgusts me is the lack of coherence and consistency with legislators.

The only difference is that the sociopath of mentally unstable can still use the digital way to try to calm his urge. If he can calm down by playing a computer rape game then maybe he won't feel the irresistible urge to go spend the afternoon in the neighborhood playground.

I never doubted that "killer games make killers" is way to short and that the overwhelming majority of people can handle this stuff and put it in the right context.

But I also believe that there are a few people which can be influenced by it.

Saw a really disturbing documentary about serial killers and one talked freely about his motives (the police officer who interogated him told the story. Attention real sick stuff).

He was a young boy ( and for sure not well socialized ) when his grandmother told him to kill a pet (a hamster as far as I recognize) for what reason ever.He slayed it with a stone and then he opened it and he was so fascinated and aroused by the warmth of the freshly killed corpse, that he was looking for that feeling his whole live.The animals become bigger and bigger then and it ended up with him killing females.At least you cannot say what would have happened without this experience, maybe he was so social distorted, that he would have become a killer anyway, maybe not, you will never know that.

The other thing is, that you are able to manipulate a lot of people (and especially children) showing them things often enough.For example, in my opinion the purpose of sexual intercourse (whether you have feelings for each other or not) is to give each other good feelings and push each other to higher grounds if possible.Today I see so much stuff where you are told you have "to destroy" females (with your fore arm or bigger sized dick) sexually, and if you tell me that wouldn't influence people, than all the millions for commercials might be wasted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about forbidding things (which isn't possible in our days anyway), or that the positive effect cannot overweigh the negative effect, all I'm saying is that we should be as careful as possible with it.

Sure, some might be influenced by it, but that doesn't anything. The amount of people influenced by stuff like that is minuscule. The thing is, even books can influence people. And I'm not talking about Bible, Quran, etc, but say, The Catcher in the Rye, Stephen King's book 'Rage', and so on. How about people killing because they were 'offended' - such as cartoons of a prophet? Hell, there were 17 incidents in the first week of April just because of ISIS. But those that have killed, would have probably been inspired or decided by themselves eventually to kill anyway, if they didn't see it.

But eh, you don't even have to be evil or mentally deranged to do bad things.

There are a lot of stuff out there much worse than anything in virtual reality but that does`t make "bad" virtual stuff any better. The problem becomes worse when they mix up. You can`t deny when playing or watching something you don`t like that stuff becomes more acceptable. We all have experienced that.

I`m not talking about censorship. It`s not possible and i`m not a hypocrite. Like almost everybody else i`ve watched or played stuff not exactly "legal" or "normal" including incest. But it`s not the same saying "hey it`s normal". No, it`s not.

First it was said: Incest is not a bad thing if consensual.Then: Which is age of consent?

In my country age of consent is 14. So it`s ok for a 40 years father/mother to have sex with his/her 14 years old daughter/son (or son/daughter)?

Crane wrote:In my country age of consent is 14. So it`s ok for a 40 years father/mother to have sex with his/her 14 years old daughter/son (or son/daughter)?

Here it's 15. However, there is an extra rule: If you are in a relationship of authority (as in teacher, stepmom/stepdad, adoptive mom/dad etc.) then the age of consent is 18.To me, that makes sense - although I actually thought there was a rule about both should be below 18.

As for the whole videogame/watching porn/killerstuff thing : There have been so many studies done about the effects of movies and games, and the results of them (the ones I've read about), have pretty much all concluded that it doesn't not affect how people behave in real-life. These studies have been made for a long time (since VHS came out I think, and some people were against it.).

Sarchx wrote:As for the whole videogame/watching porn/killerstuff thing : There have been so many studies done about the effects of movies and games, and the results of them (the ones I've read about), have pretty much all concluded that it doesn't not affect how people behave in real-life. These studies have been made for a long time (since VHS came out I think, and some people were against it.).

When i was a kid i used to play with real guns (dry fire of course). And a lot of gun toys too. I`m not a killer though. That`s because in your brain there is this "safety catch" that stops you from killing another human being. Of course that safety catch can be removed or missing but that`s not (all) movies/games fault.In the case of sexual instinct that safety catch simply doesn`t exist, Even babies do have erections. I remember i was curious about girls` "thing" since i was 3-4 years old. And when people grow up they want to fuck everybody they can. That`s why they call it instinct. Especially during adolescence when brain`s development is simply one step behind some other organs .

Since unleashed sexual instinct can cause harm society/family/school impose you some rules and laws. Some of them are not good (racial or homophobic) but some of them are really necessary, incest prohibition included.

Parents are supposed to protect their children not to fuck them. There are some 5 billion adults out there who are not your offsprings. Enjoy yourself!

Crane wrote:There are a lot of stuff out there much worse than anything in virtual reality but that does`t make "bad" virtual stuff any better. The problem becomes worse when they mix up. You can`t deny when playing or watching something you don`t like that stuff becomes more acceptable. We all have experienced that.

I`m not talking about censorship. It`s not possible and i`m not a hypocrite. Like almost everybody else i`ve watched or played stuff not exactly "legal" or "normal" including incest. But it`s not the same saying "hey it`s normal". No, it`s not.

First it was said: Incest is not a bad thing if consensual.Then: Which is age of consent?

Depends what you mean by 'normal'. Such as: "conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected." (first definition), so by that standard, was gay ever normal? In a lot of countries it still isn't. In some you can get killed just because you are gay.

The issue with consent is on state/country-by-country basis. A kid can decide he's transgender. A kid (if supported by parents - I'm not sure if accurate, but from what I've read about, it seems to be possible - at 16, and I'm unsure if possible at earlier age) can take hormones, if parents allow him. But what does a kid know? It's not like kids don't play make believe, it's not like there aren't those who think they are transgender just because they wear different clothing, etc.

Obviously, it's an issue. No, a person at that age can't make such a decision imo, but the same worry was about gay people before, as far I remember.

Sarchx wrote:As for the whole videogame/watching porn/killerstuff thing : There have been so many studies done about the effects of movies and games

There were 2 studies regarding games in the last few years that I've heard of, and how they are 'bad' for people, but both have been retracted (one because it was inaccurate, another because the one that did the study wasn't available/it was inaccurate, so the people that participated in creating the study retracted it).

Crane wrote:Parents are supposed to protect their children not to fuck them.

It's not only about parents, though. And saying not 'all' movies is slightly misleading, it'd be more accurate to say "nearly all movies don't have such impact", and even then it can mean that a significant, even if small, amount do. I'd say that the whole argument is iffy imo, and it's solved by teaching children that a) something isn't right, and b) why it isn't right.

It's not like people don't have an urge to kill/harm people, hell, countless serial killers both male and female show otherwise. But you can see why it's wrong if you are a rational person, sort of like you can see doing something a) against someone's will, or b) with someone younger whose brain hasn't developed fully, isn't right. Most people can, too, if they are taught so.

Anyhow, the argument to begin with was "If a) adult, b) consensual)". There's reason why in most parts of modern world, it'd be considered rape, even if not related. It's not like some people don't ignore the law, though. Like that woman that had sex with 3 14-15 year old boys, or countless female teachers, some of which even got pregnant. And the other argument was; there's nothing wrong with depicting such things, either in drawings, games, or actual porn, because most people won't be influenced by it; or better said, nearly all. Fantasy isn't the same thing as reality. Nearly everyone in this world can attest to that; and there's a difference between not liking/being into something, and trying to restrict it. A few days back, a female student got docked grade on her assignment because she used the word 'mankind' (sexist). There are people against/for everything, really.

I think I get your point though, but since there's nothing to show any of this could really have a big impact (or even any sort of significant impact) on influencing people into doing things they otherwise wouldn't, well...

But as I pointed out, even books can 'influence' people. You could argue that Fifty Shades of Gray influenced people into trying out BDSM; if you search enough, you'll find such posts, and maybe even articles. But to be influenced into something like that, they'd have to be at least somewhat open minded towards it, no? So just because x influenced y to consider something, it could have happened days later anyway if someone brought up something, or if y saw another movie, novel, or even witnessed someone being spanked.

What I find interesting, though, is that most arguments I've seen against incest seem to mirror those arguments in one way or the other, that were used in the past against gay people. I'm not saying though, it should be fully legalized. I'm more considering the possibility, which is the case, that some people as adults may decide to pursue it, and that they shouldn't be punished for it. That's all.

Have you tried Big Brother? Incest is not my cup of tea, but that game has something more than the average ones... It's developed by dark silver, you can google that to find it (or you will be submerged by the more famous Big Brother lol)