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Can we stay on topic? This thread isn't about Cain or Lincecum leaving.

Choosing between Moore and Bumgarner is definitely a tough choice. I want to see Moore pitch a full season in that tough Al East, but I love his explosive fastball. I also love how Bumgarner's slider absolutely took off last season. His command was outstanding after the all star break.

I'm surprised at how much hype Moore has gotten and I'm sure it is well deserved, but moreso, how little "hype" Bumgarner has received. Bumgarner is a LOT better than most people think. He's 22 years old, and finished the year last year something like 8-1 with a 1.80 ERA.

Unlike Moore, Bumgarner has 52 starts...

Here are the first 52 starts for some pitchers and Bumgarner... I will RANK them, only based on ERA which is skewed for now...

Just a random sample, and I took this from the giants blog from today... but Bumgarner definitely doesn't get the hype of some of the other younger pitchers... He's very very good.

I will leave it at this. It was 2 years ago, actually probably 3. Bumgarner was not going to make the team and he faced Manny Ramirez when he was still hitting very well. He struck him out in 3 pitches, and Joe Torre afterward was extremely impressed with Bumgarner and said he's going to be great.

Again, he's under the team's control for quite sometime. There is no need to pay him big money now, when you don't have to.

See Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum.

Just because he's under team control doesn't mean you can't cost control him. Look at Matt Cain! That's exactly what the Giants did with him, cost control. Giants would save money in the long run which is the name of the game for owners!

"It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument against a stupid person." - Bill MurraySabermetric Myths
FIP=better pitcher
WAR is fact
Pythagorean records and win expectancy have value
Strikeouts are overrated
Best regular season record = best team
Regular season > Post season
The difference between me and you is I don't need the internet to discuss baseball intelligently.

Just because he's under team control doesn't mean you can't cost control him. Look at Matt Cain! That's exactly what the Giants did with him, cost control. Giants would save money in the long run which is the name of the game for owners!

I'm very quickly beginning to learn that you love spending other people's money. Are you a financial planner by chance?

No, RTL has a point, it makes all the sense to lock up Bumgarner to save money in the future. Look at what the Rays are paying Longoria. The dude could be making upwards of 10 million right now, but i'm pretty sure he's not. The Rays did it again with Moore.

Theres no reason not to sign Bumgarner long term, he's a big kid that will have a long career.

I'm very quickly beginning to learn that you love spending other people's money. Are you a financial planner by chance?

No, I like saving my favorite team money. How are you not getting this? You act as if I'm saying "Give Bumgarner $15 million per year now!". But to answer your question, I own my own business so I know the benefit in saving money in the long run.

"It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument against a stupid person." - Bill MurraySabermetric Myths
FIP=better pitcher
WAR is fact
Pythagorean records and win expectancy have value
Strikeouts are overrated
Best regular season record = best team
Regular season > Post season
The difference between me and you is I don't need the internet to discuss baseball intelligently.

What about Matt and Tim? Both are probably gone. And Tim is costing the team a fortune for just two years.

Terrible idea.

Just for example look at Lester and Pedroia. Both signed early and for team friendly deals that ensure the Sox have both key members of their team through some of their best years.

Timmy and Cain will likely leave with the best ahead of them....

How exactly are the giants going to lose both Lincecum and Cain? And how can you say the best is ahead of them? If Lester had won cy youngs in his first two full big league seasons I can guarantee you would have never signed that deal with Boston. You cant compare Lincecum to Lester. Lincecum was far superior to Lester at the time they were going to hit arbitration. If you want to compare Cain to Pedroia, then you can argue both ways. If Cain leaves after this season the giants would have gotten 7 full seasons from him for under 31 million dollars. If Pedroia leaves after his current contract the red sox would have gotten 9 full seasons for over 50 million. So the red sox get two more years but also paid 20 million more. So the giants are doing just fine. Lincecum is a case you cant compare to anyone because he did things no one has ever done before.

How exactly are the giants going to lose both Lincecum and Cain? And how can you say the best is ahead of them? If Lester had won cy youngs in his first two full big league seasons I can guarantee you would have never signed that deal with Boston. You cant compare Lincecum to Lester. Lincecum was far superior to Lester at the time they were going to hit arbitration. If you want to compare Cain to Pedroia, then you can argue both ways. If Cain leaves after this season the giants would have gotten 7 full seasons from him for under 31 million dollars. If Pedroia leaves after his current contract the red sox would have gotten 9 full seasons for over 50 million. So the red sox get two more years but also paid 20 million more. So the giants are doing just fine. Lincecum is a case you cant compare to anyone because he did things no one has ever done before.

Fine then compare Tim to Pedro. Same thing happened. Pedro left in FA. Samething will happen with Timmy. He’ll ask more than the Giants can afford which is why at CY1 they should have locked him down like an intelligent team would have done.