As a follow on to richo's question - how important are dealers (case breakers) to the industry.

Without dealers there is nothing to buy.

I was thinking about this earlier. A lot of collectors jump for joy when dealers like gelavi or stormshadow undervalue stuff (so they can grab it). But there are two directions here:

1.) the product itself is so good that those collectors really did get a bargain and can be thrilled about it.

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

So the products themselves really ultimately tell the tale. GPK Chrome was mass produced and not received well, so dealers had to lower quick to get out and collectors stayed away. Look also at Breygent's Grimm, Transformers, and Dexter 4. But UD Marvel Premier and Retro had the opposite effect - wait to buy Premier stuff and price goes up. Good products will sell!

So many products are either overproduced or lacking in content, but MA Invasion is very strong and I believe these dealers selling too low will regret it later, but only time will tell. (Based on content and numbers Alvin hinted at as well as lack of retail, I would think MA:I will be solid.)

Well based on two cases I don't agree. I don't expect CH/GK per case. I happen to think Teranishi is a good artist and would consider him a decent pull. I have been doing this a long time and don't resort to hyperbole. My two cases had lame sketches, period. It happens. As I said, it is NOT a true representation of sketches across this whole release.

I opened 8 cases of SW GF2 (initial preorder). I had the worst 8 cases' worth of sketches in my life. I trashed the product. I was lucky to average $10 per sketch across all 8 cases. But I kept reading of other decent breaks. So I ordered more. And boom I got two really nice cases. I have since ordered another 10 cases, and only one was a stinker and the rest had really nice art! So there is no reason for anyone to read too much into a simple two-case break here.

That's true. I primarily collect Star Wars and opened a few GF2 cases, and despite bad reports, I had what I thought were really excellent cases. Loads of top end sketches. Didn't have a single bad case, which reminds me, I must upload scans of the last one.

I was thinking about this earlier. A lot of collectors jump for joy when dealers like gelavi or stormshadow undervalue stuff (so they can grab it). But there are two directions here:

1.) the product itself is so good that those collectors really did get a bargain and can be thrilled about it.

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

So the products themselves really ultimately tell the tale. GPK Chrome was mass produced and not received well, so dealers had to lower quick to get out and collectors stayed away. Look also at Breygent's Grimm, Transformers, and Dexter 4. But UD Marvel Premier and Retro had the opposite effect - wait to buy Premier stuff and price goes up. Good products will sell!

So many products are either overproduced or lacking in content, but MA Invasion is very strong and I believe these dealers selling too low will regret it later, but only time will tell. (Based on content and numbers Alvin hinted at as well as lack of retail, I would think MA:I will be solid.)

It's extremely gratifying to hear how happy many of you are with the quality of the set so far. I hope that continues.

To your point, I think dealers are underestimating interest or perhaps are just unaware of interest and are, as someone suggested earlier, just trying to pay some bills quickly.

But even heritage, i'm pretty impressed that boxes are maintaining their value. Maybe busted sets and loose sketches are down, but sealed product is still selling roughly about retail 16 months later.

I realize dealers are who sellers buy from, but I don't mean dealers who sell cases, boxes, loose packs to collectors. I specifically mean dealers who open the product to sell sets / individual cards, etc. to the collectors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Without dealers there is nothing to buy.

I was thinking about this earlier. A lot of collectors jump for joy when dealers like gelavi or stormshadow undervalue stuff (so they can grab it). But there are two directions here:

1.) the product itself is so good that those collectors really did get a bargain and can be thrilled about it.

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

So the products themselves really ultimately tell the tale. GPK Chrome was mass produced and not received well, so dealers had to lower quick to get out and collectors stayed away. Look also at Breygent's Grimm, Transformers, and Dexter 4. But UD Marvel Premier and Retro had the opposite effect - wait to buy Premier stuff and price goes up. Good products will sell!

So many products are either overproduced or lacking in content, but MA Invasion is very strong and I believe these dealers selling too low will regret it later, but only time will tell. (Based on content and numbers Alvin hinted at as well as lack of retail, I would think MA:I will be solid.)

I actually wished I would have budgeted for this break. The content looks very good and I like the design of the cards. Quality of the sketches seems to have improved from MAH (from what little I have come across).

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

This more than anything. Once the bar is set low like this it is almost impossible to see higher sales after that. Aside from Exceptions like Marvel Retro and others.

__________________
If you ask me what is the least I will take, then I am going to respond with, "What is the most you are willing to pay?"

But even heritage, i'm pretty impressed that boxes are maintaining their value. Maybe busted sets and loose sketches are down, but sealed product is still selling roughly about retail 16 months later.

hey i did 50 cases of heritage, lol - i thought it was great. (Topps QC hosed me on the first 20 cases but that's another story.)

so i just sold my first master set for $80.00. gelavi ended his listing with 8 sold and two left to go, lol. stormshadow still have 8 left for $50 and two sold. once stormshadow is out, this is poised to take off!!!

I realize dealers are who sellers buy from, but I don't mean dealers who sell cases, boxes, loose packs to collectors. I specifically mean dealers who open the product to sell sets / individual cards, etc. to the collectors.

Did he only pull 2 cards of the 4-card puzzle? I thought all 4-card puzzles were going to be packed together?

I thought so too at first. Spoke to production, and it seems that some of the 4 carders had to be split up because we just had WAY TOO MANY 4 CARD PUZZLES! If we'd packed em all together, we'd never have had enough to meet our 1 per box guarantee.

It's unfortunate, but it seemed like EVERYONE did like 10 puzzles so it became a problem...

hey i did 50 cases of heritage, lol - i thought it was great. (Topps QC hosed me on the first 20 cases but that's another story.)

so i just sold my first master set for $80.00. gelavi ended his listing with 8 sold and two left to go, lol. stormshadow still have 8 left for $50 and two sold. once stormshadow is out, this is poised to take off!!!

I was sitting at the airport catching up. Since everybody's so positive about the set quality I decided to pick up one of those underpriced mini master sets. Guess I got the last one, since it was 7 sold and 3 remaining when I pushed the button. I'm probably only going to pick up a box or two... Not nearly enough to complete the insert sets.

Thanks, and good luck with your breaks.

Re low prices on base sets... Don't forget the collectors that buy a bunch of product and then dump the extra base sets and other stuff they don't want.. They are just looking to sell quick while interest is high. Not making any money. Personally, I try not to undercut people for quick sales. Partly because I depend on those rip-n-flip dealers to sell me the singles I want/need and partly because I'd rather store the cards than sell them for scraps.

End of the day, if it's a GOOD puzzle and there aren't too many of them split up, I don't think fans (like this guy) will mind.

After all, there's something to be said for the fun of the chase, and if one guy can't complete his set, he'll pop em online and they'll get together eventually as long as they're all opened up and out there.

As a follow on to richo's question - how important are dealers (case breakers) to the industry. As a collector, I obviously want to get what I want from a set at the best price possible.

Quite the loaded, but interesting question. . . and I think there are many answers. . . most of which pivot on the balance they create. . . one of the issues that is created in this environment is a flood of material on the market on day one. Generally far more product than can possibly be absorbed by the collecting community. . . this pushes prices down (especially on the most price sensitive mid-low range components of a product).

Certainly for less popular titles dealers make a huge difference, but for very popular titles the answer isn't so clear. . .

As has been stated -- ultimately the product determines the market. . . But it definitely can be impacted along the way -- both positively and negatively.

I'm still astonished at the incredibly low prices some items are sold at. . . I can understand overproduced items (and there are lots of those) winding up in the cheap bin, but I've see cards with very low print runs dumped for next to nothing. . . Like -- the Robert Downey Jr. Iron Man autos that hit the market when they came out and fell to under $100. . .

I thought so too at first. Spoke to production, and it seems that some of the 4 carders had to be split up because we just had WAY TOO MANY 4 CARD PUZZLES! If we'd packed em all together, we'd never have had enough to meet our 1 per box guarantee.

It's unfortunate, but it seemed like EVERYONE did like 10 puzzles so it became a problem...

Then I'm glad that for the four puzzles I did, I designed all the cards to be able to stand alone -- just in case one can't get the missing pieces!

I got my binder from Topps a few days ago. Very nice. Lurid and garish are a couple of words which come to mind. In other words, perfect!

Speaking of binders...

I have the current one, and I got one from the Heritage series titled "Attack from Space". Looks like I blew past my opportunity to get a Heritage binder with "Mars Attacks" on it. If anyone out there has a spare for sale or trade, lemme know...

I meant more the pictures on the cards. Is the last heritage set different cards to these heritage parallels? I don't really understand the link. Sorry if this sounds like I don't know much, I am a Star Wars person and just tried my luck on a case as quite liked what I saw!

I meant more the pictures on the cards. Is the last heritage set different cards to these heritage parallels? I don't really understand the link. Sorry if this sounds like I don't know much, I am a Star Wars person and just tried my luck on a case as quite liked what I saw!

The Heritage Parallels are the new card images (Invasion) on the classic "Heritage" format, with the white borders.