Ezharon wrote:I had reforged parry to dodge on some of my gear and I found that Mr. Robot was telling me not to on a few pieces. I was surprised and at first I thought that it was better optimized when fully buffed (taking better care a diminishing returns that I've done manually).

But then I found that the unbuffed parry/dodge as shown by Mr. Robot weren't the same (and were higher) then my stat as shown in game on the character sheet. So the fully buffed optimized stats were wrong too.

I don't recall where, precisely, but I remember reading on the Mr. Robot forums that their numbers for "base" dodge and parry may be slightly off in some cases but that it shouldn't affect the results of the Optimiser since those base numbers aren't affected by DR. Not to say there might not be a bug somewhere in there but just a heads up.

I have to say the weapon enchants are pretty uninspiring.I am currently using the weapon chain, and I think I will be for some time to come.Getting chain disarmed and not being able to generate Holy Power in Grim Bartol is irritating to say the least.

As I don't raid, I cant really justify the massive price of windwalk, and Ive tried the mending enchant (To help the healer out). Considering its a cata level enchant, Mending is a truly feeble enchant, only giving 850-950 health back per proc, and the proc rate seems pretty low. On the target dummy I've had non-proc streaks of greater than 30seconds.

Ellifain @ Khaz'Goroth does not approve of torture, save where there's experience/rep/loot involved.

A note to the thread starter - there is one leg enchant you have not gotten in you list that would apply to anyone creating a threat set:[Dragonscale Leg Armor] - Attackpower +190 & Critical Strike Rating +55.

Thats the equal to [Dragonbone Leg Reinforcements], only it is not BoP Leatherworking.

Toshirou wrote:A note to the thread starter - there is one leg enchant you have not gotten in you list that would apply to anyone creating a threat set:[Dragonscale Leg Armor] - Attackpower +190 & Critical Strike Rating +55.

Thats the equal to [Dragonbone Leg Reinforcements], only it is not BoP Leatherworking.

I'm wondering what one should do if there is a +30 stamina bonus with a yellow socket and a red socket, when going for a mastery-heavy strategy. The yellow socket with +15 stamina implies I should match the socket, but the red socket with +15 stamina isn't enough. What breaks the tie? (This applies to the t11 chest).

Eanin wrote:I'm wondering what one should do if there is a +30 stamina bonus with a yellow socket and a red socket, when going for a mastery-heavy strategy. The yellow socket with +15 stamina implies I should match the socket, but the red socket with +15 stamina isn't enough. What breaks the tie? (This applies to the t11 chest).

That's a good question. Refer to the guide for the mastery-heavy strategy:

* A really good bonus is more than 13 mastery rating or 20 stamina tied to a single non-yellow slot** A good bonus is 10 or more mastery rating or 15 or more stamina tied to a single non-yellow slot*** including all slots with poor socket bonusesWith a mastery-heavy strategy, yellow sockets are freebies; you are going to put a pure mastery gem in every yellow socket no matter how good or bad the socket bonus may be.

That means that, in this case, the decision to match the socket bonus is entirely based on what you want to put in the red socket. That means you should consider the entire socket bonus attached to that red socket. +30 stamina tied to a single red socket is a "really good bonus", and you should match for it. I suggest a parry/mastery gem.

Keep in mind that my suggestion will not give you the highest possible combat table coverage. You will get better coverage by ignoring the socket bonus and just stacking mastery. That said, stamina is always important, right? And since you need stamina, it wouldn't be wise to give it up someplace where you can get a lot of it for a low cost. I value stamina at about 2/3s the value of mastery, even in a mastery-heavy strategy. In this case, that means by matching the red socket you get +10 parry rating (worth about 3.6 mastery rating in terms of ctc) plus +20 mastery rating (from the gem) plus +30 stamina (worth about 20 mastery rating per my valuation), for a total of about 43.6 mastery rating equivalent. If you ignore the bonus and just insert a 40 mastery gem, you only get 40 mastery rating equivalent. It's close, but not quite as good.

Great thread. After reading it, I've got a task list about 15 lines long for "fixes" I can make when I get on WoW tonight.

Having said that, I'm looking for some advice concerning gems. I currently have 135K unbuffed health, and my dodge+parry+block is 63.15%. Therefore, if we're to follow the "tank stages" thread, my health is above that of a stage 2 (recommended 130K), while my CTC is far below (recommended 70%). To fix this, should I just stack +40 mastery gems on every single gem socket, regardless of colour? Or is a +20 Parry socket bonus still worth matching for?

Not that this is necessarily a high priority except maybe for threat sets (and maybe it's been mentioned before, I haven't read through the rest of the thread), but under the wrist enchantments, why is the leather enchantment for strength lower on the list than the regular enchantment for strength?

Skye1013 wrote:Not that this is necessarily a high priority except maybe for threat sets (and maybe it's been mentioned before, I haven't read through the rest of the thread), but under the wrist enchantments, why is the leather enchantment for strength lower on the list than the regular enchantment for strength?

Just something I noticed

Yeah, that does look funny, though as you point out no one should get that low on the list except in threat gear. I resorted stuff a little bit. Thanks!

Wonton wrote:Great thread. After reading it, I've got a task list about 15 lines long for "fixes" I can make when I get on WoW tonight.

Having said that, I'm looking for some advice concerning gems. I currently have 135K unbuffed health, and my dodge+parry+block is 63.15%. Therefore, if we're to follow the "tank stages" thread, my health is above that of a stage 2 (recommended 130K), while my CTC is far below (recommended 70%). To fix this, should I just stack +40 mastery gems on every single gem socket, regardless of colour? Or is a +20 Parry socket bonus still worth matching for?

I see you today at 141k health on the armory, and 75.3% ctc. (dodge + parry + block + 5% miss) So as of right now you're in great shape! Just aim for consistency in gearing by maximizing the value you can get out of each slot. Good luck!

Digren wrote:Digren says, "Agility's days as a survival stat are over, because it no longer provides armor and provides just 61% as much dodge benefit as dodge rating. I've removed agility gems from consideration. If you don't meet the baseline stamina required for your tank stage, use parry/stamina gems in your high-socket-bonus red slots (if any), or just pure stamina gems. If your stamina is sufficient to survive, use pure mastery gems to minimize damage taken."

Listed under Survival Gems: Red - Even more worthless now as agility doesn't even provide dodge.

And unless you're keeping them as largely sub-optimal threat boosts (or as bear options), can also remove (under enchants):

I would put the leg armors on this list, but they do still provide stamina, so have some benefit (and by that token, the agi/mastery shoulder enchants still have some use, but there is no reason to grab them with exponentially better choices from the same vendor at the same rep level.)

Digren wrote:Digren says, "Agility's days as a survival stat are over, because it no longer provides armor and provides just 61% as much dodge benefit as dodge rating. I've removed agility gems from consideration. If you don't meet the baseline stamina required for your tank stage, use parry/stamina gems in your high-socket-bonus red slots (if any), or just pure stamina gems. If your stamina is sufficient to survive, use pure mastery gems to minimize damage taken."

Listed under Survival Gems: Red - Even more worthless now as agility doesn't even provide dodge.

And unless you're keeping them as largely sub-optimal threat boosts (or as bear options), can also remove (under enchants):

I would put the leg armors on this list, but they do still provide stamina, so have some benefit (and by that token, the agi/mastery shoulder enchants still have some use, but there is no reason to grab them with exponentially better choices from the same vendor at the same rep level.)

I removed some of these as they were, as you note, 100% useless. Some others I kept because I thought they could be vaguely useful in threat sets if you end up with an otherwise excellent threat piece in a given slot but need to slap a quick enchant upon it. Thanks!

Fenrìr wrote:Looking over this as you updated it for 4.3, I'm a bit surprised to find the Regal gems so far below the Puissant's given how we're already looking away from mastery in this tier.

What's your math/reasoning for keeping the Puissant's so high on your recommended list?

I think there's a checklist for reasoning out how to invest in gemming.

1. Do you have all the mastery that you need?

2. Are you and your healers satisfied with your health?

3. Do you have a trinket strategy that allows for flexibility as required in the above?

If you answers to all three of the above are an emphatic Yes Already!, then sure, there's no harm in considering pure avoidance as the only remaining method to reduce incoming damage. But in terms of overall selection, I still think each raider needs to go through that checklist of options before settling on the final choice, which in my mind means the other options remain "higher" on the list.

Do note, though, that to an extent anything under the bolded "recommended" gems are only roughly sorted. So much depends on your overall gear, and especially your trinkets, so for more specific advice I suggest the advice thread.

Just wanted to add that I think the +20 Shadow resist cloak enchant is the best tank enchant for Dragon Soul. Some of the heaviest damage abilities are shadow damage and that enchant provides an extra 1.5% reduced shadow damage vs 0.15% reduced physical damage from the armor enchant. That's with prismatic elixir (it provides more if you're using a flask instead of elixirs).

1) There aren't that many heavy damage situations where shadow resist is useful. It could be useful for heroic Zon'ozz and Yor'sahj progression, but those are the only two with significant amounts of resistable shadow damage. Zon'ozz still does ~75% melee damage, but the Psychic Drains are resistable and dangerous. Yor'sahj's Void Bolt is dangerous, but only on 25H (it's trivial on 10H, and not worth gearing around - we one-tank the fight in our alt run, with a tank that doesn't even have the BH resist trinket). I know some of the early Yor'sahj progression kills used heavy shadow-resist gearing, but that's significantly less important now with the 5% nerf active.

Note that despite having ~50% shadow damage from Twilight Instability, none of the damage in the Ultraxion encounter is resistable. There's a decent bit of shadow damage in Blackhorn, but none of it is particularly tank-threatening. It's generally phase 2 that you'd be gearing for, in particular Blackhorn's physical damage. There may be some value in the shadow resist enchant for heroic madness (Tetanus, Degenerative Bite), but I can't say first-hand.

2) Note that having 20 extra shadow resist doesn't guarantee you anything, because partial resists are binned in 10% increments - you either resist 0%, 10%, 20%, etc. Adding 20 shadow resistance increases your average resistance amount from 21.22% to 22.90%, around 1.68% (assuming only resistance aura). But it doesn't eliminate the possibility of resisting only 10%, so it doesn't give you an EH-like guaranteed benefit. You'll just see those 10% resists slightly less often (17.75% of the time rather than 21.95% of the time). With the prismatic elixir included, your average resist goes up from 28.25% to 29.64% (1.39% increase), and your chance to resist only 10% drops from 4.38% to 0.90%, almost enough to push you to a new threshold, but not quite. Armor, on the other hand, is guaranteed mitigation for melee attacks.

Should you consider putting Shadow Resist on your cloak if you're progressing on Yor'sahj or Zon'ozz? Sure, there it's an option. For the rest of the bosses though, I'd stick with armor.

theckhd wrote:There may be some value in the shadow resist enchant for heroic madness (Tetanus, Degenerative Bite), but I can't say first-hand.

This. I switched to shadow resist for solo tanking heroic madness (as well as the spell damage reduction meta) and was quite pleased with the decision. After a decent cooldown rotation is set up for impale, the only other scary parts of the fight with respect to tank damage are high degenerative bite and tetanus stacks.

theckhd wrote:your chance to resist only 10% drops from 4.38% to 0.90%, almost enough to push you to a new threshold, but not quite. Armor, on the other hand, is guaranteed mitigation for melee attacks.

That actually seems pretty significant to me compared to the benefit of the extra armor. I'm not saying that the benefit is huge but even though the armor mitigation is guaranteed, it's so so tiny. The damage reduction on 250 armor is something like 0.13%.