Knicks Morning News (Monday, May 13 2013)

INDIANAPOLIS â?? Faced with a 2-1 hole, an uncertain rotation, a flu bug making the rounds and a scoring tandem in the tank, coach Mike Woodson sounded desperate at yesterday’s practice.
It’s crisis time for the Knicks going into Game 4 of this second-round series tomorrow at Bankers Life…

INDIANAPOLIS â?? This is a maddening, infuriating basketball team, these Knicks, a team that only sometimes plays tough and plays smart and does not understand the kind of commitment, the kind of will the NBA playoffs demand of you.
They are in a hole now against the Pacers because only in…

INDIANAPOLIS â?? There was no problematic aftermath for Amar’e Stoudemire.
After experiencing his first action for the Knicks in more than two months Saturday night, Stoudemire felt fine yesterday morning at a light team workout. There was no sure thing concerning how Stoudemire’s surgically-repaired right knee would respond.
He…

INDIANAPOLIS â?? A little more than a month, roughly a quarter of the NBA season, had passed. Indiana center Roy Hibbert, after a summer that included signing a healthy contract extension, hovered near the bottom of the league’s field goal percentage stats.
Just what you want from your 7-foot-2 two-way…

INDIANAPOLIS â?? It’s entirely possible that whenever this season ends â?? this week, next week, next month â?? we will start to hear a few things about Tyson Chandler, about his neck, about his knee, about just how badly the late-season flu knocked out his legs and deflated his lungs.
To Chandler…

INDIANAPOLIS â?? During the season, the Knicks launched almost 29 3-point shots per game. During the first eight games of the playoffs, they hoisted 24 per game.
On Saturday, though, they barely shot any.
In scoring a miserable 71 points in their Game 3 loss to the Pacers, perhaps the most…

INDIANAPOLIS â?? Did Kenyon Martin also party with Rihanna?
No, but Martin has caught J.R. Smith’s flu. Smith and Martin missed yesterday’s practice at Bankers Life Field House to rest at the hotel and Knicks coach Mike Woodson is worried about the bug spreading.
Smith came down with…

If you stood outside Bankers Life Fieldhouse on South Delaware St. on a picture-perfect Mother’s Day morning and looked through the big viewing windows, down onto the Pacers’ practice court, you saw the oddest sight. You saw Carmelo Anthony shooting the basketball.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

J.R. Smith is still sick and still slumping while Tyson Chandler is still criticizing unnamed teammates â?? perhaps Carmelo Anthony, perhaps not â?? for undermining the offense.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

The Golden State Warriors outshot, outrebounded and outplayed the San Antonio Spurs in the first two games of their Western Conference semifinal but left Texas with a disappointing split.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

With Stephen Curry hobbling because of an ankle injury, rookie forward Harrison Barnes and veteran guard Jarrett Jack responded with a combined 50 points to lead the Warriors past the Spurs.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

The N.B.A.’s owners will soon vote on a recommendation that the Kings be prohibited from moving to Seattle, but the group that wants to buy and relocate them raised its offer by about $49 million.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

His spirits down, his left ankle limp and his team’s season hanging in the balance, Stephen Curry wondered whether he could recover for the biggest game of his career until a text message popped up on his phone around 2 a.m. Saturday.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

169 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Monday, May 13 2013)”

Playoffs aren’t for the feint of heart people. The Cavan remark in the recap summed up the overall sentiment. “Lose game 4 and we’re toast”. As if game three meant everything. They still have to beat us two more times. If we win game 4 we’ll be in the drivers seat. We have 2 home games and need to win one of two on the road. IND are a great defensive team. This’ll be hard and if they’re better than us, so be it. But we’re not toast until we’re toast.

Also, people, stop bemoaning our one dimensional offense. Our offense is multidimensional and brilliant. If it looks bad it’s because IND has some speed and size. It’s not like coach Woodson get’s the guys together in a time out and says, “OK, Dudes, the play is, for everyone to stand around and, Melo, you take a contested jumper.”

Tyson Chandlers health may be the significant factor here. He just doesn’t seem to be able to control Hibbert. Maybe that makes the difference. But MOST IMPORTANTLY, there’s nothing to be ashamed of if you’re a Knicks fan. Great season, great team, and we’re not dead yet.

Howard Beck’s entire column today consisted of Tyson Chandler quotes about ball movement and not playing as a team. First of all, how about looking in the mirror and realizing that you are making Roy Hibbert look like Hakeem Olajuwon? And secondly, Melo took a total of 16 shots. As a team, the Knicks shot 35%, as did the Pacers, the difference was the Pacers got 9 more shots because of offensive rebounds. And the Pacers must have really been killing us by moving the ball around, they had 14 assists to our 11.

So please Beck and all the other hoops “experts” stop with the same old ball movement BS, we lost the game because we couldn’t make a shot and the Pacers killed us on the glass.

second straight playoffs Chandler has largely been a no-show, last year he got sick just in time for game 1. maybe the league needs a Most Overrated Player award in addition to the Most Improved Player? :)

GHenman:
What can Chandler do with the ball if he’s more than two feet away from the rim anyway?

this is even too generous, he needs the ball within two feet of the rim and to be moving towards the basket with no defender there. two feet from the rim with a defender in between him and the basket (especially one like Hibbert), and he is usually incapable of finishing.

I think Woodson would be risking his job by doing that. I would give Amare as many of Chandler’s minutes as he could handle. BTW, I see where ATL is willing to look at sign and trades for Josh Smith. I think he’d be an excellent compliment to Melo as long as he understood his usage would go down and he was going to guard the opponents toughest forward every night. I also think ATL might take Amare plus some sweeteners if they strike out in the FA market.

I agree Hubert, but if he benched Chandler for Copeland know and it didn’t work he’d get blasted in the press and might lose some of the locker room. If he loses this series as is or tries playing Amare more, I think he is guaranteed at least one more year. Not that I think he should be fired. If I were Grunwald, I’d let him ride out this cycle and if we have to rebuild start with a new coach.

Because Chris Copeland sucks? Because he’s a 29 year old rookie who was basically playing on a dirt court at this time last year? Because he’s looked like he wants to crap his pants every minute he’s been on the floor in the postseason, during which time he’s shooting like 23% from the field? Because the only way Tyson Chandler looks like a DPOY is in comparison to Chris Copeland? I don’t know, just spitballin’ here.

The fact of the matter is that if the guys on our team who have won championships, been all-stars, won the DPOY, won 6MOY, etc. don’t come to play, there is nothing Chris Copeland will do to change the outcome of this series. Nothing. The only difference giving him significant playing time would make is that Woodson would go down looking like an idiot.

I think that’s part of Woodson’s problem. He is afraid to think outside the box. Hence the aversion to “rookies” (Shump, Prigioni, Copeland, Lin) or the pigmentally challenged (Novak, Lin). If you don’t fit his and the stereotypical notion of an NBA baller then good luck. I don’t think Cope or Novak are the answer, but is it going to kill him to put them in there when they are getting killed on the boards anyway and every third possession or is JR dawdling away the shot clock while failing to advance towards the basket. It f’in killed me that Amare came in and other than a dive when Prigioni drove there did not seem to be much effort to get him the ball.

But if you ran him at the 5, like you did during the regular season when he dominated this same very Pacers defense, he present matchup problems that would take the Pacers out of their game.

Or you can just run out the guys who have won awards and are playing like shit.That’s a great strategy.

Playing people who are not good at basketball is not a winning strategy in the playoffs either. Pardon me if I’m not blown away by the spectacular performance of line-ups that have played 22 whole minutes together. Chris Copeland is a garbage time all-star for a reason.

I think you might be on to something, flossy. We should definitely let awards dictate our lineups, not evidence of their effectiveness.

We’d have to dump our best perimeter defender because he hasn’t won any awards yet. The PG who has made our offense work best in this series would have to sit, too, because he’s just a 35 year old rookie with no NBA awards. Kenyon Martin has been effective but hasn’t won any awards since his all-rookie team. And sorry, Ray Felton. You’ve been a vital cog in the lineup but your trophy cabinet is lame so have a seat.

Marcus Camby, step up! You’re back in play, my man!

JR, who cares if you’re killing us. You’ve got a trophy!

Tyson. You would’ve finished 250th in DPOY voting last year if you played like you’re playing now, but it’s acceptable if I lose with you so keep playing and don’t worry about boxing out.

Nick C.:
I think that’s part of Woodson’s problem. He is afraid to think outside the box. Hence the aversion to “rookies” (Shump, Prigioni, Copeland, Lin) or the pigmentally challenged (Novak, Lin). If you don’t fit his and the stereotypical notion of an NBA baller then good luck. I don’t think Cope or Novak are the answer, but is it going to kill him to put them in there when they are getting killed on the boards anyway and every third possession or is JR dawdling away the shot clock while failing to advance towards the basket. It f’in killed me that Amare came in and other than a dive when Prigioni drove there did not seem to be much effort to get him the ball.

What? Woodson loves Shumpert, inserted Prigioni into the starting line-up, played Lin 30+ mpg while he was on the team and gave Novak and Copeland more minutes over the course of the season that most NBA coaches would have.

I makes no sense whatsoever to say “I don’t think Player X is the answer, but it couldn’t hurt to put him in even though he is horrible in the areas where we are already under-performing.”

Chris Copeland is NOT the answer. The answer is that Chandler, Felton, JR Smith, and Jason Kidd need to WAKE UP and play well. That is the only way we win this series.

FYI, flossy, this was from a game with home court advantage in this series on the line. Not some garbage time bullshit. Indiana had no answer for the spacing Copeland provided at the 5, and his defense on Hibbert was very effective.

Hubert Davis:
I think you might be on to something, flossy.We should definitely let awards dictate our lineups, not evidence of their effectiveness.

Melo, those are your guys.Go to war.Good luck, cuz the blame is going to be all on you because I took the safe route.

I’m sure you can’t be so incredibly dense as to think that’s actually what I’m suggesting.

I’m saying it behooves us to play a Center who has nearly 2000 minutes of playoff basketball experience, an NBA championship under his belt and who has historically vastly out-rebounded Roy Hibbert in head-to-head matchups, rather than some nobody who has 42 minutes of “playing like a warm dog turd” exp in the playoffs.

Does that make any sense to you? Play the guy who has the ability to be a game-changing defender (even if he didn’t show it on Saturday) instead of the guy who sucks? If Chandler plays to his potential, we can win games. If Copeland plays to his potential he’ll hit a 3 or two, turn the ball over a few times and get shit on so hard by Hibbert and West it would make Saturday’s beat down look like foreplay.

Good strategy! Hey, if someone plays well in random garbage time samples, they must be ready for big roles in quasi-elimination games in the second round of the playoffs.

GHenman:
I agree Hubert, but if he benched Chandler for Copeland know and it didn’t work he’d get blasted in the press and might lose some of the locker room.If he loses this series as is or tries playing Amare more, I think he is guaranteed at least one more year.Not that I think he should be fired.If I were Grunwald, I’d let him ride out this cycle and if we have to rebuild start with a new coach.

I’m not saying straight out bench Chandler for Copeland, by the way. I’m saying maybe go to that lineup for 8-10 minutes if the offense is completely bogged down.

Tyson Chandler is playing hurt. That should be obvious to anybody who is watching. When healthy, Tyson is a very good player, a true difference maker. Unfortunately the version of Chandler that is out there right now cannot jump without thinking about it for a few seconds and has the agility of a redwood tree. He’s just not a very useful player.

The Knicks have about $33M of salary cap money tied up in two guys (Chandler and Amar’e) who are giving them about ten cents worth of production in this series. If Melo, the Pipe and castoffs like Ray Felton, Pablo Prigioni and Kenyon Martin can somehow will them to a series win it will be a goddamn miracle at this point.

flossy:
I’m saying it behooves us to play a Center who has nearly 2000 minutes of playoff basketball experience, an NBA championship under his belt and who has historically vastly out-rebounded Roy Hibbert in head-to-head matchups, rather than some nobody who has 42 minutes of “playing like a warm dog turd” exp in the playoffs.

Does that make any sense to you?

It actually doesn’t. Tyson Chandler has a bulging disc in his neck and he hasn’t demonstrated a Joakim Noah-like ability to retain his effectiveness while playing with the injury. So I don’t understand why you think the performance of a healthy Chandler from 2010-12 is more predictive of what will happen next than the performances of the actual Chandler we’ve had since Feb of 2013. Playoff series are too short to wait around for things to revert to historical performance.

And I don’t know why you think Copeland would suddenly shit his pants if you played him in a role he has proven to be good at. You think the lineups that worked well down the stretch would suddenly stop working well because it’s the playoffs?

Interesting that Chandler is essentially calling out his teammates for not trusting each other and moving the ball.
They have become a highly iso-focused team. Playing a great defensive team that is fantastic at helping with isolation as your main offensive approach is tantamount to walking into a buzz saw.
This needs to change.
Those penetrations that are met by three large Indiana bodies, including the tallest in the league, should end with a kick out to a shooter. And that shooter needs to shoot, or quickly swing the ball if the first defensive rotation is solid. Start doing that, and the Knicks defense won’t be on its heels as much as it has been.
And the Knicks need to bring the double more quickly when Hibbert has the ball. Chandler said that also was a break down. Hibbert said he’s focused on acting more quickly, he has become more decisive, and so the Knicks cannot wait to bring the double. It needs to come almost immediately.
The Pacers are not a great shooting team. Make them hit those jumpers in the face of strong, decisive rotations.

I know everybody wants to shit on Chandler, but the game is a team game and rewatching the game while taking notes, there are a whole lot of reasons we lost other than Chandler is Hibbert’s bitch and Melo is a black hole. Overall Indy played harder than us, plain and simple – so we need to correct energy level. Here are the specific adjustments I think we need to make.

DEFENSE:
+ HARD double on Hibbert, only once he dribbles the ball – we were inconsistent with this. He’s not a great passer or ball handler, give Tyson help.

+ Chandler needs to push Hibbert outside of the paint before the catch

+ BOX OUT (particularly Chandler, Shumpert and Melo) and guards need to crash the boards and stop watching

+ Screen and roll is killing us, we need to stop going under screens and aggressively fight over screens or hard trap the ball handler like Miami does

+ Guards need to keep their man in front of them, there is too much easy penetration and direct lines to the paint

OFFENSE
+ We really need to eliminate the contested jumper in transition from our diet — Shumpert and Smith are the main offenders

+ We had way too many UNFORCED turnovers in that game, Kidd and Felton need to throw better entry passes, Melo needs to use his body better on catches in the post. Let the Pacers earn the TOs they get.

+ The ball is sticking on one side of the court too much, we need a LOT more ball screen action and ball movement from the strong to weak side. Melo and JR need to stop holding the ball for 5-6 seconds before deciding what to do.

+ Our best offense was the side PnRs allowing guard penetration and scoring / passing in the paint. We need to run more of that and mix up those plays with our one-on-one Melo Post-Ups. They are not doubling Melo at all, so we need to force them to switch and get our guys open through the PnR, penetrate and kick game – to do that we need to push the pace so we have more time to run these plays.

I think Cope should play Especially if they go zone and then run the Pacers on O. How many rim runs could Felton have after a few pick and pops with Cope? Also, against Hibbert Cope can actually dribble by him like Martin has on occasion.

Also, Someone needs to hack Benards twitter account and tell Melo to pass. I actually liked most of Melo’s game from what I saw(missed 3rd qtr) except that he had way to many turnovers. Then hack Ewings account and get on Chandler.

JK47:
Tyson Chandler is playing hurt.That should be obvious to anybody who is watching.When healthy, Tyson is a very good player, a true difference maker.Unfortunately the version of Chandler that is out there right now cannot jump without thinking about it for a few seconds and has the agility of a redwood tree.He’s just not a very useful player.

if this is true (possibly, although he strongly denies it, not that that shows much), then he has been hurt for most of the season, because he has been watching guys drive right by him to the basket for almost the entire season.

It’s probably time to remove Jason Kidd, who is finished, from the rotation entirely. He’s playing 25 minutes a game and his TS% is .240. His eFG% is .205. Come on already with that shit. Indiana must just start licking their chops every time that old geezer steps on the floor.

I don’t care how much Jedi mind trick wizardry he brings to the table, there’s no way that offsets a .205 eFG%. He should be a DNP-CD from here on out, yet Woody will still roll him out there because Kidd is like the team mascot or something.

You want to know why the offense sucks? Because half of the game, we’re playing 4-on-5. Kidd is no threat to do ANYTHING when he’s out there.

jon abbey: if this is true (possibly, although he strongly denies it, not that that shows much), then he has been hurt for most of the season, because he has been watching guys drive right by him to the basket for almost the entire season.

He’s been a lot worse since the disc injury. I agree that his rim protection has been miles behind where it was last year, but he was still giving the team some production before the injury. I mean, the guy had three 20 rebound games in a row in early February and had a 16-point, 28 rebound game against Dallas at the end of February. The disc injury happened shortly after that and his game has been in the toilet ever since.

Can you imagine Tyson Chandler having a 20 rebound game right now? He has 12 rebounds in the entire Indiana series.

JK47:
It’s probably time to remove Jason Kidd, who is finished, from the rotation entirely.He’s playing 25 minutes a game and his TS% is .240.His eFG% is .205.Come on already with that shit.Indiana must just start licking their chops every time that old geezer steps on the floor.

I don’t care how much Jedi mind trick wizardry he brings to the table, there’s no way that offsets a .205 eFG%.He should be a DNP-CD from here on out, yet Woody will still roll him out there because Kidd is like the team mascot or something.

You want to know why the offense sucks?Because half of the game, we’re playing 4-on-5.Kidd is no threat to do ANYTHING when he’s out there.

Yup, that goose is fully cooked. The guy has set a record by playing 10+ minutes in 7 straight playoff games without scoring a single point. To compare his play to the corpse of Mike Bibby is being generous.

flossy: What?Woodson loves Shumpert, inserted Prigioni into the starting line-up, played Lin 30+ mpg while he was on the team and gave Novak and Copeland more minutes over the course of the season that most NBA coaches would have.

I makes no sense whatsoever to say “I don’t think Player X is the answer, but it couldn’t hurt to put him in even though he is horrible in the areas where we are already under-performing.”

Chris Copeland is NOT the answer.The answer is that Chandler, Felton, JR Smith, and Jason Kidd need to WAKE UP and play well.That is the only way we win this series.

Woody may start Prigs but Kidd plays more minutes even in the playoffs. Same with JR v. Shump, though the difference is marginal and they play together often. Next time I see or hear reference to someone other than Shumpert being bitched at will be a first.

As for playing Lin 30mpg. Really??? He had no choice and acted as if he was holding his nose to do it. He gave him a pretty tepid endorsement after the season (on that he has been correct so far but that is another story).

Your answer is to keep doing the same thing and hope for a better result.

Agree with this as well. Along with my other adjustments. Maybe limit him to 15 mins per game — Woody isn’t going to DNP-CD him. Hopefully Shump is healthy…

JK47:
It’s probably time to remove Jason Kidd, who is finished, from the rotation entirely.He’s playing 25 minutes a game and his TS% is .240.His eFG% is .205.Come on already with that shit.Indiana must just start licking their chops every time that old geezer steps on the floor.

I don’t care how much Jedi mind trick wizardry he brings to the table, there’s no way that offsets a .205 eFG%.He should be a DNP-CD from here on out, yet Woody will still roll him out there because Kidd is like the team mascot or something.

You want to know why the offense sucks?Because half of the game, we’re playing 4-on-5.Kidd is no threat to do ANYTHING when he’s out there.

One little question — how the f&% do these guys get the flu in the first place?

I understand that accidents happen. But when I had a medically frail infant, there were times I didn’t let him leave the house. Because why bother?

So if there is a playoff series hanging in the balance, are these guys going to night clubs? Are they working day shifts in hospital wards? Where are they going where they shake hands with sick people and why, precisely?

I don’t know if i am crazy. But shouldn’t we play bigger with Melo at the 3? Specially now that Amare is available. We are losing lots of rebounds and we are going ISO anyway on the other end. At least fix the rebounding issue.

“INDIANAPOLIS — The New York Knicks were missing a third player in practice Monday as Iman Shumpert sat out due to soreness in his left knee, the team said.

The extent of Shumpert’s soreness was unclear, but Shumpert and coach Mike Woodson said they thought the forward would play in Game 4 on Tuesday night, when the Knicks’ Eastern Conference semifinal series against Indiana resumes. The Pacers lead 2-1.”

TheRant:
One little question — how the f&% do these guys get the flu in the first place?

I understand that accidents happen.But when I had a medically frail infant, there were times I didn’t let him leave the house.Because why bother?

So if there is a playoff series hanging in the balance, are these guys going to night clubs?Are they working day shifts in hospital wards?Where are they going where they shake hands with sick people and why, precisely?

I’ve always wondered the same thing. Between myself and all of my family members and friends, I can think of maybe one case of the flu in the last 15 years. And for what it’s worth, NBA players are highly conditioned athletes.

But it happens every single year around playoff time, and of course once one guy gets it, the whole team gets it.

yellowboy90:
So what exactly does the bulging disk affect him from doing? Does it really prevent him from pushing Hibbert off the blocks or moving his feet.

To my untrained eye, it looks like Tyson is moving like a mummy, and is not making decisive athletic moves. Everything seems a split second late. I think it’s because of the injury rather than because he’s choking or because he just doesn’t care. We’ve all watched the guy play a lot, and he’s capable of a lot more than what he’s doing right now… when he’s healthy.

When K-Mart enters the game he seems so much more nimble and athletic than Tyson.

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
“INDIANAPOLIS — The New York Knicks were missing a third player in practice Monday as Iman Shumpert sat out due to soreness in his left knee, the team said.

The extent of Shumpert’s soreness was unclear, but Shumpert and coach Mike Woodson said they thought the forward would play in Game 4 on Tuesday night, when the Knicks’ Eastern Conference semifinal series against Indiana resumes. The Pacers lead 2-1.”

What forward?

He took a spill in game 3 that frightened me. I thought he’d reinjured his knee. I’m not surprised.

yellowboy90:
So what exactly does the bulging disk affect him from doing? Does it really prevent him from pushing Hibbert off the blocks or moving his feet.

A bulging disk will make you slow & stiff. Every time you move you’re muscles like you normally would, the disc hits a nerve and sends pain down your spine that makes you want to stop moving. I’ve unfortunately had it. If you have to exert strength by moving a hard to move object, you will definitely be in pain. Your inclination is to not move, which is pretty much what he’s doing.

Chandler may not be 100%, but people complaining about his offense must have been living in a cave for a long time. He’s a very limited offensive player and always has been. Against a solid 7 foot defensive center, he’s not going to get many easy looks.

Besides, scoring is not his job. Scoring is on Melo, JR, and Felton and that’s why we are screwed. Our offense is dependent on highly inconsistent scorers with poor decision making skills and unimpressive efficiency.

What we need from Chandler is a better effort on Hibbert and on the boards. If he can’t do that because he’s hurt, he’s useless.

Hubert Davis: A bulging disk will make you slow & stiff.Every time you move you’re muscles like you normally would, the disc hits a nerve and sends pain down your spine that makes you want to stop moving.I’ve unfortunately had it.If you have to exert strength by moving a hard to move object, you will definitely be in pain.Your inclination is to not move, which is pretty much what he’s doing.

Hubert Davis: JR is most definitely going to night clubs during the playoffs.

Yea but a couple of weeks ago Ruru was calling me an idiot for saying that JR has had other periods of high efficiency and more mature play only to be followed by the reemergence of the old JR.

I guess I was right!

There’s a reason Karl and the Nuggets ran him out of town despite his obvious talents. He’s a moron, immature, and probably has some psychological issues that contribute to all this instability and unprofessional behavior.

It’s a shame he’s playing so poorly now. Had he continued playing well someone might have offered him a contract we couldn’t match and we would have gotten rid of him. Now, knowing this management, they’ll resign him. We are the dumping ground for every dysfunctional player in the NBA.

He’s wildly EV- in every other facet of the game and solidly EV- overall. For every extra point he gets you with some above average efficiency scoring he’s gives up more than that defensively, by not being able to rebound, with poor decisions etc…

And again, I’m talking about FOR TEN MINUTES A GAME instead of those bullshit Martin-Chandler lineups that suck or the god-fucking-awful Felton-JR-Melo-Kidd-Chandler lineup that looked like one of the worst five man units I’ve ever seen in the playoffs on Saturday.

Speaking of which, what site can I use to get 5 man unit stats in the playoffs? Is there anything besides Synergy?

If Chris Copeland is not left wide open, there is space on the court for the other 4 players.

This is not about Copeland so much as it’s about what a 5-man unit with him at the 5 is capable of doing.

I think you are missing the point.

Yes, they would be capable of doing more on offense with him playing, but on a net basis he is so bad at everything else for his position, he’s still a net negative (EV-). So if you want score an exatra couple of points per game, put Copeland in, but expect us to lose by even more.

IMO scoring is very overrated relative to other facets of the game.

You have to rebound, defend, make plays, not turn over the ball, not commit dumb fouls, not make poor decisions etc… at a satisfactory level also or whatever you give via scoring more than evaporates elsewhere.

this team badly needs someone-anyone-who can hit a fucking shot. Cope, Novak, our top 5 superstar-it doesnt matter. but one of Novak or Cope should be at least given a chance at this point if everyone else is bicklaying

Yes, they would be capable of doing more on offense with him playing, but on a net basis he is so bad at everything else for his position, he’s still a net negative (EV-). So if you want score an exatra couple of points per game, put Copeland in, but expect us to lose by even more.

IMO scoring is very overrated relative to other facets of the game.

You have to rebound, defend, make plays, not turn over the ball, not commit dumb fouls, not make poor decisions etc… at a satisfactorylevel also or whatever you give via scoring more than evaporates elsewhere.

Normally I’d agree with you, but the guy we have in there right now– Mummified Tyson Chandler– isn’t rebounding, defending, making plays or not committing dumb fouls either. And in addition to that he’s a zero on offense.

Overall I’m not so sure Copeland would be a huge net negative. But I agree with you that he’s probably not the savior either.

Felton-Kidd-Smith-Anthony-Chandler was actually a devastating lineup in the regular season. It was actually the most used lineup by the Knicks all season, and probably their most effective. They scored 1.24 points per possession and allowed 0.96. It was a ridiculously effective lineup at one time.

Problem is, Chandler is at about 40% physically, Kidd is no longer able to play NBA basketball and who knows what the hell is going on with JR Smith.

This is one big reason why the Knicks are probably not going to win the series: when your best regular-season five-man lineup is completely ineffective, and the solution is “let’s see what Chris Copeland can do” you’re probably not gonna fare real well.

JK47, I understand that. I checked it out on 82games.com and I realize it may seem foolish for me to ignore all the regular season data.

But like you said, we don’t have the Kidd or the Chandler who played in the regular season. What made that lineup so devastating was the pick and roll with Chandler and Felton, and some good shooting from Kidd at times. That pick and roll is now toothless, and Kidd doesn’t shoot. That lineup plays directly into Indiana’s hands.

In my personal opinion, when coaching in the playoffs you have to recognize that what worked against everyone else may not work against one particular team, and you have to adjust. There isn’t enough time to expect it to revert to the mean.

It’s not unlike the Yankees with Alex Rodriguez this past October. You have to know when the guys you’re running out there aren’t the same guys who accumulated those stats. Putting Copeland in is pinch-hitting Raul Ibanez.

The best part of Chandler’s quotes was the one talking about how frustrating it is that he cant go back at Hibbert on offense because he never sees the ball. WTF could Chandler possibly do on offense against Hibbert?? Is he freaking serious??

I love Chandler but his quotes were mostly bullshit. Complaining about the offense and ball movement when Melo took only 16 shots and was actually being criticized by Woodson after the game for not shooting enough?? Complaining that they werent double-teaming Hibbert when they were supposed to?? So you are telling me he cant freaking cover Hibbert one-on-one and needs/wants help when covering him??

Now there is an article on ESPN today about Chandler basically calling Melo out and the media of course was all over Melo today asking him about it:

Hubert Davis:
It’s not unlike the Yankees with Alex Rodriguez this past October.You have to know when the guys you’re running out there aren’t the same guys who accumulated those stats.Putting Copeland in is pinch-hitting Raul Ibanez.

Yup, this is how I feel about it. I generally agree with the idea of dancing with the one who brought you, but at some point we do have to acknowledge that the ones who brought us are no longer available.

This is certainly not the JKidd who was a valuable contributor earlier in the season. He looks as washed up as washed up can be. With 4 other guards playing solid basketball for the most part there really isn’t any reason for him to be in the rotation. With Amare returning to the rotation we really don’t need to keep playing 9 guys. Kidd shouldn’t make another non-garbage time minute in this series.

Chandler is a little more complicated. Is he hurt? Woodson obviously has a lot better intel on that front than we do. And it’s not like Chandler has been a walking zero in every game for weeks like Kidd has been. There were definite signs of life towards the end of the series against Boston. You definitely can’t abandon him at this point. You have to keep going to him, but I don’t see the harm in giving Copeland a 10 minute shot to freshen up the offense.

Cope was significantly more than a garbage time warrior at the end of the year. Starting with the win over Utah, Cope averaged over 21 minutes a game. This doubled as the stretch that turned our season around and where we played great ball. He played big minutes in many of our biggest wins during that stretch and was a big part of the identity of the lineups he played in. The guy is a flawed player, very much so, but his strength is something we desperately need right now. It’s not worth a shot?

BigBlueAL:
The best part of Chandler’s quotes was the one talking about how frustrating it is that he cant go back at Hibbert on offense because he never sees the ball.WTF could Chandler possibly do on offense against Hibbert??Is he freaking serious??

I love Chandler but his quotes were mostly bullshit.Complaining about the offense and ball movement when Melo took only 16 shots and was actually being criticized by Woodson after the game for not shooting enough??Complaining that they werent double-teaming Hibbert when they were supposed to??So you are telling me he cant freaking cover Hibbert one-on-one and needs/wants help when covering him??

Now there is an article on ESPN today about Chandler basically calling Melo out and the media of course was all over Melo today asking him about it:

Agreed. Can you imagine the reaction amongst a certain segment of Knicks fans if Melo had called out his teammates in the press during a stretch where he was playing absolutely brutal basketball? He’d be drawn and quartered. Chandler seems to be mostly getting a pass, but that is absolute crap. If you feel the ball isn’t moving enough on offense (and I really don’t agree that that’s the heart of our problems right now) talk about it in the locker room. The only thing that comes from this kind of move is dissension, and the Knicks already have enough problems.

The Knicks were actually .2 pts/100 possessions worse on defense with Chandler on the court, and that’s with the motley crew of old people and/or defensive incompetents like Amar’e and Copeland backing him up.

By comparison, the Bulls were 5 points worse without Noah and Memphis was 7 points worse without Gasol.

The Knicks were actually .2 pts/100 possessions worse on defense with Chandler on the court, and that’s with the motley crew of old people and/or defensive incompetents like Amar’e and Copeland backing him up.

By comparison, the Bulls were 5 points worse without Noah and Memphis was 7 points worse without Gasol.

I think it’s a “we’re sorry that we didn’t put you on the 1st team last year” thing here. It’s a crying shame that Paul George wasn’t on the 1st team. I’m not sure where these coaches get their ideas from.

massive: I think it’s a “we’re sorry that we didn’t put you on the 1st team last year” thing here. It’s a crying shame that Paul George wasn’t on the 1st team. I’m not sure where these coaches get their ideas from.

Yeah I’m sure it was a make-up call, but like… come on, coaches. Noah, Gasol, Hibbert, Asik, even the empty husk of Dwight Howard had better defensive seasons at Center than Chandler. Now I guess Marc Gasol will make the first team next year even if he retires to play in Spain.

Yeah, Tyson has really been awful this series, both statistically and in general. He is getting absolutely dominated by Hibbert. Very unseemly for him to call out others and not specifically call out how badly he has played personally.

I kinda notice that Hibbert basically eats Kenyon alive when he’s in the game (although Kenyon is quicker around the basket on the offensive end than Hibbert is). Does anyone think we should dust off Camby to play with the 2nd unit? Our biggest problem has been defending Hibbert and controlling our own defensive boards — and isn’t that what we brought Camby here for?

And btw, I agree that Copeland should get some time at the 5. Since we’re apparently doubling Hibbert when he’s in the post anyway, and since Chandler is averaging 4 rebounds/game, it’s not ridiculous to consider that we might not be losing that much by playing Cope at the 5 rather than Tyson. It’s time to make Hibbert uncomfortable.

Hubert Davis:
I really think Chandler has blown his credibility in the locker room with this rant.It’s so obviously an attempt to deflect attention away from his horrible play at the expense of a teammate.

I get pointing fingers after a loss, but to follow it up with the same comments the day after?

Man, that is really low. Seriously, it’s the kind of deal that can start a pretty severe downward spiral like we saw at the end of MDA’s tenure.

That is exactly what we need to do. I’ve never seen the guy smile as much as he did in game 3, it was like he realized he could do whatever he damned please at both ends of the court. And this is a guy who until recently was viewed as the consummate underachiever.

usage for our top two scorers has increased and efficiency has decreased radically. Better play by Felton and Shump has offset these problems somewhat, but the ineffectiveness of Kidd and Novak, and to a lesser degree Prigs, have retarded the positives.

Melo’s usage % climbed from 35.6 to 38.4, and his TS% went from .560 to .489 and eFG% from .502 to .420. A guy with that kind of usage playing that inefficiently is going to lead to some low scoring games.

JR’s usage % climbed from 26.5 to 27.9, and his already modest TS% went from .522 to .429 and eFG% from .484 to .391. Again, if a guy with that usage is shooting that poorly, it just kills your team.

One the other hand, Felton’s usage % dropped from 22.1 during the season to 21.2, but his TS went from .505 to .523 and his eFG from .480 to .508. Not great numbers, but he is playing better.

Shump on the other hand, has seen his usage increase only slightly from 15.6 to 16.2, but his TS went from .516 to .555 and eFG from .489 to .527.

One last point, Chandler’s usage % has plunged from 13 to 9.2, but his efficiency numbers have only decreased a little bit.

I’d love to see if anyone can dig out stats to show how much more iso-focused this team has become, because I think that is why Melo and JR have sucked. But I think there is some chicken and egg: are the Knicks relying on iso plays because Novak and Kidd are simply not available threats to spread the floor, or is it, as Chandler seems to think, Melo and JR are playing hero ball and shooters aren’t getting shots? The fact that our 3 pt shot attempts are down radically would possibly indicate the latter is true.

Yeah, the reason Hibbert can sit in the lane all day long after Tyson sets a pick is that Tyson is ZERO threat on offense outside of offensive rebounds and on the dive — and as Dylan Murphy wrote in his article today, Tyson isn’t really diving much at all, making Hibbert’s job even easier. If Tyson had spent the same amount of time working on his midrange jumpshot as he did with all his art, fashion etc. stuff, maybe Hibbert would actually have to follow him around on defense and not be in perfect position to contest everything the Knicks are trying. I don’t begrudge the guy wanting to become more well-rounded as a person especially in the offseason — but I do begrudge a guy calling out others when he himself is playing like dogsh*t, and especially when that guy’s weaknesses are being specifically exploited by Vogel (ie. don’t bother guarding Tyson). And by the way, the other team having an ORB% of 33.3% when you’re on the floor is mostly your fault too. (never mind that the Indy’s ORB% when Tyson was OFF the floor was incalculably bad at 44.4).

To me its just the timing of the comments that is odd. Knicks actually played very well offensively in the first 2 games of this series. In their 2 losses they have gotten killed on the boards and Chandler has been utter crap. Woodson basically called him out after Game 1 because Hibbert dominated him and Chandler played even worse in Game 3.

You have quotes from Woodson and articles/tweets from the NY media actually criticizing Melo for not shooting enough and not being aggressive enough in Game 3 yet Chandler basically called him out for being too selfish in Game 3. Just weird.

Let’s be clear about one thing:
Chandler saying that stuff publicly isn’t the best way to handle the situation, but what he said was true.
The stats I posted appear to bear this out a bit.
Too much iso, not enough kicking out off penetration, there’s no extra passing to pressure rotations.

And on penetrations, Hibbert is almost always there, which means Tyson is being left alone. Why isn’t he getting dishes?

On defense, Tyson is giving up about 30 pounds. It’s like watching Ewing trying to guard Shaq, although not as bad. He needs double help. Him saying it, shouldn’t be a knock on him. Plenty of great defenders need help. This is the friggin NBA, after all.

Frank O.:
Let’s be clear about one thing:
Chandler saying that stuff publicly isn’t the best way to handle the situation, but what he said was true.
The stats I posted appear to bear this out a bit.
Too much iso, not enough kicking out off penetration, there’s no extra passing to pressure rotations.

And on penetrations, Hibbert is almost always there, which means Tyson is being left alone. Why isn’t he getting dishes?

On defense, Tyson is giving up about 30 pounds. It’s like watching Ewing trying to guard Shaq, although not as bad. He needs double help. Him saying it, shouldn’t be a knock on him. Plenty of great defenders need help. This is the friggin NBA, after all.

Hibbert averaged 12 ppg this season on less than 45% shooting. He should not require a freaking double-team.

One last point, Chandler’s usage % has plunged from 13 to 9.2, but his efficiency numbers have only decreased a little bit.

I’d love to see if anyone can dig out stats to show how much more iso-focused this team has become, because I think that is why Melo and JR have sucked. But I think there is some chicken and egg: are the Knicks relying on iso plays because Novak and Kidd are simply not available threats to spread the floor, or is it, as Chandler seems to think, Melo and JR are playing hero ball and shooters aren’t getting shots? The fact that our 3 pt shot attempts are down radically would possibly indicate the latter is true.

It’s actually very simple. Both the Pacers and Celtics, excellent defensive teams, are hugging shooters on the pick and role, not doubling on the ball and not helping penetration on the perimeter.

Those are the ways 3-point shots are created.

What they are doing is giving the ballhandler in the pick and roll, or the driver, the opportunity to take an uncontested or lightly contested shot.

Melo should be shooting a lot. He needs to be making a lot more shots.

The Chandler stuff is just weird and seems really out of character- you’d think that at least he’d have prefaced it by acknowledging how crappy he’s played but just throwing Melo and I think to a lesser extent Felton (whose played all of one bad game in the playoffs) under the bus is shocking. And some of the complaints don’t make a whole lot of sense- He’s complaining about the wings not busting out on the break which is kind of tough to do when the wings have to do the bulk of the rebounding because Chandler’s been so anemic on the boards. And it’s really difficult to push the pace when you can’t rebound. He wants more drive and kick but the drive and kick game has disappeared because the kick-out shooters either don’t shoot (Prigs and Kidd), can’t shoot (JR), or aren’t playing (Novak, Cope). The only drive and kick that’s had any success is Melo dishing to Felton in the corner out of the pnr.

nicos:
The Chandler stuff is just weird and seems really out of character- you’d think that at least he’d have prefaced it by acknowledging how crappy he’s played but just throwing Melo and I think to a lesser extent Felton (whose played all of one bad game in the playoffs) under the bus is shocking.And some of the complaints don’t make a whole lot of sense- He’s complaining about the wings not busting out on the break which is kind of tough to do when the wings have to do the bulk of the rebounding because Chandler’s been so anemic on the boards.And it’s really difficult to push the pace when you can’t rebound.He wants more drive and kick but the drive and kick game has disappeared because the kick-out shooters either don’t shoot (Prigs and Kidd), can’t shoot (JR), or aren’t playing (Novak, Cope).The only drive and kick that’s had any success is Melo dishing to Felton in the corner out of the pnr.

Frank O.:
Let’s be clear about one thing:
Chandler saying that stuff publicly isn’t the best way to handle the situation, but what he said was true.
The stats I posted appear to bear this out a bit.
Too much iso, not enough kicking out off penetration, there’s no extra passing to pressure rotations.

And on penetrations, Hibbert is almost always there, which means Tyson is being left alone. Why isn’t he getting dishes?

On defense, Tyson is giving up about 30 pounds. It’s like watching Ewing trying to guard Shaq, although not as bad. He needs double help. Him saying it, shouldn’t be a knock on him. Plenty of great defenders need help. This is the friggin NBA, after all.

Rotations aren’t happening with much frequency because defenders are not leaving shooters!!!!!!!!!

The problem isn’t the kind of shots, it’s that they aren’t making them.

Lightly contested pull-ups is the only shot the Pacers are giving up. Melo can make those. He’s not right now,.

ruruland: It’s actually very simple. Both the Pacers and Celtics, excellent defensive teams, are hugging shooters on the pick and role, not doubling on the ball and not helping penetration on the perimeter.

Those are the ways 3-point shots are created.

What they are doing is giving the ballhandler in the pick and roll, or the driver, the opportunity to take an uncontested or lightly contested shot.

Melo should be shooting a lot. He needs to be making a lot more shots.

Knicks ran 14 isolations on Saturday. It’s a lazy narrative.

Seems like the obvious answer is to feature Melo as the PnR ball-handler more often?

Garson:
I think teams have figured out that doubling Melo leads to our best ball movement all season and to open 3s.

They are comfortable with Melo scoring 40 as long as others dont get involved and when Melo has a inefficient game it only adds to the teams frustration and tears them apart.

Whether or not the league as a whole has figured it out I do think what we’re seeing has a LOT more to do with the defensive philosophies Indiana and Boston are using against us than in some concious decision Melo or JR are making to shoot more. Both Indy and Boston know that we play our best ball when we get the ball zipping around the perimeter and we’re knocking down 3s. We basically generate that ball movement in two major ways – Felton drives on the PnR and dishes, or Melo draws a double. Indy and Boston have managed to take away both for the most part.

When we run pick and roll they’re willing to let Felton try to score in the midrange as long as Chandler doesn’t get dunks and nobody gets an open 3. That’s why Felton is putting up nice numbers for the most part. He’s the poison they’re picking. If anybody is going to reduce the shot burden on Melo and JR it probably needs to be Felton. We’ve clearly been at our best offensively in the playoffs when he uses the space and is assertive.

As for Melo, they’re not sending a hard double which allows us to swing the ball on the perimeter. They’re shading Hibbert over knowing he can give Melo a strong challenge at the rim and daring Melo to kill them with single coverage jumpers. That allows them to take advantage of George’s strengths as a defender – quickness and length, and minimize his weakness – strength. And Melo’s jumper has been off obviously. He needs to start knocking down those jumpers, but stopping taking them is not a solution – it’s just a shifting of the problem somewhere else.

ruruland: Has a 1.4 ppp as pnr ballahndler in playoffs after finishing second in league during regular season as pnr ballhandler. Yes, Melo is going to run it a lot more and shoot it a lot more.

He’s only had 25 such plays in playoffs, most coming in 4th quarters.

He’ll need to hit the 5-10 foot pull up jumper though. Hibbert will not follow Chandler out of the paint and is going to be waiting under the basket for Melo the way he did in game 1. If Melo can make Hibbert come out from under the basket, other/better shots will eventually open up as they adjust to defend it.

flossy: Well then I stand by what I said.If this turns into something that divides the whole team, that this group was never more than pretenders anyway.Tuesday should tell the whole story.

I think this is perfectly reasonable. Your first comment made it kind of sound like you were blaming Melo for his reaction already. While Chandler’s comments were silly and mistimed, open signs of frustration aren’t that unusual this time of year. Remember last year when Wade bumped Spoelstra in this round? Media was obsessed for two days, but Miami dealt with it internally and responded on the court and three Miami wins later it’s a non-issue.

Melo dealt with it the right way so far, which should be the expectation (that Chandler failed to meet). This is a veteran team. They should be able to put this behind them.

thenamestsam: I think this is perfectly reasonable. Your first comment made it kind of sound like you were blaming Melo for his reaction already. While Chandler’s comments were silly and mistimed, open signs of frustration aren’t that unusual this time of year. Remember last year when Wade bumped Spoelstra in this round? Media was obsessed for two days, but Miami dealt with it internally and responded on the court and three Miami wins later it’s a non-issue.

Melo dealt with it the right way so far, which should be the expectation (that Chandler failed to meet). This is a veteran team. They should be able to put this behind them.

Didn’t mean to blame Melo unduly. Seems clear enough that Chandler was taking a dig at him, and I just assume ruruland speaks for (or presumes to speak for) Melo when he says that it might be “the kind of thing where you don’t want to play with a guy anymore.”

I’d think a group of adults would be able to talk it out and move on as a group, but this is the Knicks, so it’s just a safe to assume that a third of them are drunk, another third have some new kind of immunovirus and the last third have been secretly dead for a few weeks, so…

flossy: Didn’t mean to blame Melo unduly.Seems clear enough that Chandler was taking a dig at him, and I just assume ruruland speaks for (or presumes to speak for) Melo when he says that it might be “the kind of thing where you don’t want to play with a guy anymore.”

I’d think a group of adults would be able to talk it out and move on as a group, but this is the Knicks, so it’s just a safe to assume thata third of them are drunk, another third have some new kind of immunovirus and the last third have been secretly dead for a few weeks, so…

It will either make them stronger or break them. You couldn’t have a more defining game.

thenamestsam: I think this is perfectly reasonable. Your first comment made it kind of sound like you were blaming Melo for his reaction already. While Chandler’s comments were silly and mistimed, open signs of frustration aren’t that unusual this time of year. Remember last year when Wade bumped Spoelstra in this round? Media was obsessed for two days, but Miami dealt with it internally and responded on the court and three Miami wins later it’s a non-issue.

Melo dealt with it the right way so far, which should be the expectation (that Chandler failed to meet). This is a veteran team. They should be able to put this behind them.

Miami was in EXACTLY the same position the Knicks were after game 3, in almost every way, maybe worse.

Through three games, Miami had an offensive rating of 93.6.

Through three games, Knicks have an offensive rating of 104.3.

Through three games, Miami had been outscored by 4.5 ppg.

Through three games, Knicks have outscored Indiana by 3.3 ppg.

Through three games, Lebron had a TS % of .503.

Through three games, Melo has a TS% of .505.

Through three games, Wade shot 18-61 from the field (29.5%)

Through three games, JR has shot 11-41 (26.7%).

Through three games vs Heat, Indiana had 39 offensive rebounds.

Through three games vs Knicks, Indiana has 36 offensive rebounds.

Game 4 defined the Heat and the Big Three era, imo (even though Bosh was hurt)

Do I expect Melo to put up a 40/18/9 and JR a 30/9/6?

Of course not. But this their time to answer the bell and define their careers, just as it was for Lebron and Wade (playing together).

Of course not. But this their time to answer the bell and define their careers, just as it was for Lebron and Wade (playing together).

Throw in Tyson.

I think they’re going to do it.

I agree the stars have to step up but I think the overall rebounding and team D are a key to making that happen. The Pacer’s are no better on offense than the Celtics. If the Knicks can hit them with a half or so of the kind of stifling D they hit Boston with, the Pacers can be rattled and let the Knicks’ shooters regain their confidence.

Unreason: I agree the stars have to step up but I think the overall rebounding and team D are a key to making that happen. The Pacer’s are no better on offense than the Celtics. If the Knicks can hit them with a half or so of the kind of stifling D they hit Boston with, the Pacers can be rattled and let the Knicks’ shooters regain their confidence.

Right, Melo, Chandler have to step up big time on the boards and beat their larger opponents.

When we run pick and roll they’re willing to let Felton try to score in the midrange as long as Chandler doesn’t get dunks and nobody gets an open 3. That’s why Felton is putting up nice numbers for the most part. He’s the poison they’re picking. If anybody is going to reduce the shot burden on Melo and JR it probably needs to be Felton. We’ve clearly been at our best offensively in the playoffs when he uses the space and is assertive.

As for Melo, they’re not sending a hard double which allows us to swing the ball on the perimeter. They’re shading Hibbert over knowing he can give Melo a strong challenge at the rim and daring Melo to kill them with single coverage jumpers. That allows them to take advantage of George’s strengths as a defender – quickness and length, and minimize his weakness – strength. And Melo’s jumper has been off obviously. He needs to start knocking down those jumpers, but stopping taking them is not a solution – it’s just a shifting of the problem somewhere else.

Great post.

If George doesn’t have Hibbert behind him, that play from behind approach is not effective.

Melo has overcome and adapted to greater defenders than PG, you can believe that (Artest, Bruce Bowen, Trenton Hassel).

PG is more Trevor Ariza than any of those guys.

His style is set up by rim protection,. George cannot handle Melo’s strength.

BigBlueAL: Hibbert averaged 12 ppg this season on less than 45% shooting.He should not require a freaking double-team.

Dude, past performance isn’t explaining how he is playing. He’s always been a good defender. But he’s attacking the basket. he hits a hook with both hands, uses the glass and is making one of the best defensive centers in the game look weak. He is an old school center who appears to be emerging. And if you can’t see him blossoming into what everyone thought he could be, you aren’t watching or you’re too partisan to see.

ruruland: It’s actually very simple. Both the Pacers and Celtics, excellent defensive teams, are hugging shooters on the pick and role, not doubling on the ball and not helping penetration on the perimeter.

Those are the ways 3-point shots are created.

What they are doing is giving the ballhandler in the pick and roll, or the driver, the opportunity to take an uncontested or lightly contested shot.

Melo should be shooting a lot. He needs to be making a lot more shots.

Knicks ran 14 isolations on Saturday. It’s a lazy narrative.

Look, last game melo’s share of the overall attempts were down about 10 percent. He didn’t shoot enough. This is true, but when he drives, he’s drawing three defenders. Look at the games. He drives into Hibbert and he has West and another defender collapsing. And when he gets his board he now has four Pacers around him, and rather than dishing, he’s going back up.

ruruland:
and Frank, how can you possibly argue that Chandler should need help guarding Hibbert? Comparing him to Shaq!?!?!?!

I said it’s not as bad as that. But the weight disparity Reminded me. Ewing went about 260 and Shaq at that stage was about 300, maybe more. He got much heavier late in his career.
And your eyes should tell you that Hibbert has pushed Tyson around. And no one, no one, defends an effective hook, and Hibbert has developed a very effective hook. But mostly he is overpowering him so far.

ruruland: Rotations aren’t happening with much frequency because defenders are not leaving shooters!!!!!!!!!

The problem isn’t the kind of shots, it’s that they aren’t making them.

Lightly contested pull-ups is the only shot the Pacers are giving up. Melo can make those. He’s not right now,.

Are we watching the same games? Seriously, and respectfully, I have seen Melo draw two and three guys on drives, and he is getting pounded. When he drives and the bag collapses, he can kick, but he’s in full bully mode.
Now, again, you’re right, last game he didn’t shoot enough. Shots were way down. I can’t recall if it was 77 or 71, but way below their average for the playoffs. But his usage is much, much higher.
I agree. They need to make baskets.
But I watched the games, twice each. There are three point shots open out there. The ball isn’t finding those shooters.
I asked people to inform me on iso, if there weren’t up, fine.

Ru, you’re also right in this being a defining moment.
All season this team fought, even through games that were out of reach. They had major injuries to work through. Lots of challenges.
I think they’ll fix their issues and steal this game, getting back on serve.
I bet they find more threes and melo shoots more as well.
Hope his shoulder permits.

ruruland: Miami was in EXACTLY the same position the Knicks were after game 3, in almost every way, maybe worse.

Through three games, Miami had an offensive rating of 93.6.

Through three games, Knicks have an offensive rating of 104.3.

Through three games, Miami had been outscored by 4.5 ppg.

Through three games, Knicks have outscored Indiana by 3.3 ppg.

Through three games, Lebron had a TS % of .503.

Through three games, Melo has a TS% of .505.

Through three games, Wade shot 18-61 from the field (29.5%)

Through three games, JR has shot 11-41 (26.7%).

Through three games vs Heat, Indiana had 39 offensive rebounds.

Through three games vs Knicks, Indiana has 36 offensive rebounds.

Game 4 defined the Heat and the Big Three era, imo (even though Bosh was hurt)

Do I expect Melo to put up a 40/18/9 and JR a 30/9/6?

Of course not. But this their time to answer the bell and define their careers, just as it was for Lebron and Wade (playing together).

Throw in Tyson.

I think they’re going to do it.

Which was a safer bet, that Ruru would return to posting before the next game after his pledge not to post the rest of the postseason, or that he’d think Melo was going to have an epic performance in a career defining game? :)

thenamestsam: Which was a safer bet, that Ruru would return to posting before the next game after his pledge not to post the rest of the postseason, or that he’d think Melo was going to have an epic performance in a career defining game? :)

Hey, I made it two days!!!

It becomes so easy and cliche to blame Carmelo that sometimes even his teammates use him as an alibi.— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) May 13, 2013

Did Nate Robinson just have the worst game in playoff history? Only six other players have shot over 10 FGA and made none, all of them at least scored points on free throws (Nate didn’t), and none of them had as many turnovers as Nate did (the max was 2).

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
Did Nate Robinson just have the worst game in playoff history? Only six other players have shot over 10 FGA and made none, all of them at least scored points on free throws (Nate didn’t), and none of them had as many turnovers as Nate did (the max was 2).

You sure do get off on high usage players having bad games.

Wish there was a stat for missed block-outs and offensive rebounds yielded to offensive player you’re guarding.

Nick C.:
As for playing Lin 30mpg. Really??? [Woodson] had no choice and acted as if he was holding his nose to do it. He gave him a pretty tepid endorsement after the season (on that he has been correct so far but that is another story).

Do you realize that Lin was averaging 18/7 per 36 minutes on 0.462 shooting (0.381 3P%) in the last two months? And that this was not a fluke, as his production and efficiency steadily improved as the season went on?

Lin could have orchestrated the destruction of the Pacers, just as he did last season in back-to-back games. Can you imagine him penetrating, drawing Hibbert out of position, and feeding an open Chandler for a slam? Lin would also be dishing to Melo, JR, Novak, Copeland, stretching Indiana’s defense completely out of shape. Hell, just getting Novak going would have been huge in terms of spacing for Melo.

Bison: Do you realize that Lin was averaging 18/7 per 36 minutes on 0.462 shooting (0.381 3P%) in the last two months?And that this was not a fluke, as his production and efficiency steadily improved as the season went on?

Lin could have orchestrated the destruction of the Pacers, just as he did last season in back-to-back games.Can you imagine him penetrating, drawing Hibbert out of position, and feeding an open Chandler for a slam?Lin would also be dishing to Melo, JR, Novak, Copeland, stretching Indiana’s defense completely out of shape.Hell, just getting Novak going would have been huge in terms of spacing for Melo.

I get depressed just thinking about it.

Felton has not been the problem in these playoffs. He sucked in game 3 but so did pretty much everyone else.

JK47:
This Game 4 is looking potentially grim.Between JR and K-Mart’s flu, Tyson’s neck, Shump’s knee, Amar’e’s knee and Jason Kidd’s zombie disease, there aren’t many horses left to ride.

The only healthy guys on the team are now Melo, Felton and Prigioni.Plus Copeland, Novak and the Dead Wood Brigade composed of Q, Earl Barron, James White and Marcus Camby.

honestly I think Melo is hurt the worst of any of them, his shoulder really is not right ever since Garnett yanked it out of its socket in a pretty cheap play that no one seems to have given him shit about.

Bison: Do you realize that Lin was averaging 18/7 per 36 minutes on 0.462 shooting (0.381 3P%) in the last two months?And that this was not a fluke, as his production and efficiency steadily improved as the season went on?

Lin could have orchestrated the destruction of the Pacers, just as he did last season in back-to-back games.Can you imagine him penetrating, drawing Hibbert out of position, and feeding an open Chandler for a slam?Lin would also be dishing to Melo, JR, Novak, Copeland, stretching Indiana’s defense completely out of shape.Hell, just getting Novak going would have been huge in terms of spacing for Melo.

I get depressed just thinking about it.

The Rockets get depressed thinking about having to pay Lin 20 mil over the next 2 seasons.

Please. Lin. Ancient history.
I just hope they’re getting Melo’s shoulder right.
Here’s what I’d like: Kidd’s head on JR’s body.
And if Copeland could spare it, his shoulder swapped with Melo’s.
oh, and Novak’s touch, in Shump’s body.
And Copeland’s reps for Amare.

No one in the history of the league has taken >10 FGA and scored zero points. No one. I don’t give a fuck about your expert diagnosis so much as I care about the outcome. Nate Robinson produced the worst possible outcome for his scoring possessions.

flossy: Felton has not been the problem in these playoffs.He sucked in game 3 but so did pretty much everyone else.

BigBlueAL: The Rockets get depressed thinking about having to pay Lin 20 mil over the next 2 seasons.

You think the Knicks wouldn’t be in better shape now with Lin, who produced 18/7 per 36 minutes over the last two months, as opposed to Felton’s 14/5 in the same timeframe?

Furthermore, Lin made people better. I doubt it’s a coincidence that Chandler and Novak have disappeared on offense since Felton was handed the reigns to the team. Could we have used last season’s versions of both players in game 3? Hell yes!

Lin is also better on defense. If he had been there to strip Roy Hibbert a few times, I doubt the big guy would have been as comfortable in the post as he was in game 3.

Put all that together and we can see why the Knicks were able to kick the Pacers in the butt last year, back-to-back.

I totally disagree. Down 4 with 20 seconds left, of course you take the quickest look at a three. I assure you no one would disagree with that. Melo has taken that three many times and no one has ever complained about it (Kobe has taken that three about 500 times, made it about 7 times and no one has ever complained about it).

Brian Cronin: I totally disagree. Down 4 with 20 seconds left, of course you take the quickest look at a three. I assure you no one would disagree with that. Melo has taken that three many times and no one has ever complained about it (Kobe has taken that three about 500 times, made it about 7 times and no one has ever complained about it).

With 20 seconds left I’d say try something that isn’t a 30 foot contested heave. But I digress. This is a pretty big deal, I guess Westbrook isn’t worse than Jason Kidd ;)

jon abbey: Fisher has been awesome before tonight, admittedly inexplicably, but check it out.

OKC/MEM is really similar to our series with Westbrook out, hopefully we can actually win our crucial game 4 tomorrow.

No, you’re right. He’s played very, very well this postseason. Game 6 against Houston was nearly perfect.

But whenever people say, “Veteran savvy! Leadership! Making the right decisions!” you can watch that play and see that even a guy who’s played four full seasons worth of postseason games makes crucial mistakes, this one absolutely killing their odds of winning the game.

OKC/MEM is really similar to our series with Westbrook out, hopefully we can actually win our crucial game 4 tomorrow.

It really does seem like a similar series. I think the Knicks are better than a Westbrook-less Thunder, though, so I could see the Knicks possibly winning their series even if they lose Game 4 while I don’t think OKC has any chance now. But yeah, pretty much the Knicks really do need to win Game 4.

It is absolutely fascinating to see the Maloofs essentially play a big game of chicken with the NBA, refusing to sell to the group that would keep the Kings in Sacramento. I honestly don’t care where the Kings end up, but it is hilarious watching the Maloofs try to spite the NBA’s wishes.

So, now that the Knicks beat the Cs, if the Rangers go on to beat the Bruins and the Yanks then beat the Red Sox this year, what happens? Does a pair of enormous sink holes yawn simultaneously beneath Fenway and the Boston Garden swallowing them completely and only issuing the occasional sulfurous belch to remind everyone where they once stood? That would partly revive my delusional belief in a just world, at least for a while.

Speaking of the Rangers, the Capitals have now lost 6 times when leading a series 2-0 (out of 10 times total). For serious!?!? 60% of the time they’re up 2-0 in a series they lose?! Wow, imagine if an NBA team had that kind of record. Their fans would be going apeshit.

Brian Cronin:
Speaking of the Rangers, the Capitals have now lost 6 times when leading a series 2-0 (out of 10 times total). For serious!?!? 60% of the time they’re up 2-0 in a series they lose?! Wow, imagine if an NBA team had that kind of record. Their fans would be going apeshit.

Brian Cronin:
Speaking of the Rangers, the Capitals have now lost 6 times when leading a series 2-0 (out of 10 times total). For serious!?!? 60% of the time they’re up 2-0 in a series they lose?! Wow, imagine if an NBA team had that kind of record. Their fans would be going apeshit.

The fans here are apeshit, shell shocked and some resigned saying the Caps were soft…

Brian Cronin:
It is absolutely fascinating to see the Maloofs essentially play a big game of chicken with the NBA, refusing to sell to the group that would keep the Kings in Sacramento. I honestly don’t care where the Kings end up, but it is hilarious watching the Maloofs try to spite the NBA’s wishes.

Pretty sure it’s not going to work. Sounds like the NBA owners have to sign off on any sale of even a minority stake to Hansen, and I highly doubt they would approve that given they know he wants to move the team to Seattle. So that would leave the Maloofs with no buyers, no approval to move the team, which would lead to them losing more and more money every year.

What a bunch of douchebags these Maloofs are. As long as they get their money, why does it matter to them if the team stays in Sacramento? Unless there’s an under-the-table deal for other stuff if the team gets to Seattle?

From Elias Sports Bureau: “Kevin Durant was 2-for-8 from the field in the fourth quarter and then 0-for-5 in overtime in the Oklahoma City Thunder’s loss to the Memphis Grizzlies on Monday. Durant was the first NBA player in five years to miss at least 11 field-goal attempts after the third quarter in a postseason game.”

It’s OK, he’s trying his hardest, just had an off game in the defining moment of the postseason for OKC.

Anthony is 4 years older than Durant. In four years, if OKC fails to win a TITLE, you’ll see Durant get the same media beating. Anthony’s success rate is even worse than that, and he’s in New York. I don’t see this as a case of the media choosing to treat Melo differently than any other star with his past and in his place.

max fisher-cohen:
Anthony is 4 years older than Durant. In four years, if OKC fails to win a TITLE, you’ll see Durant get the same media beating. Anthony’s success rate is even worse than that, and he’s in New York. I don’t see this as a case of the media choosing to treat Melo differently than any other star with his past and in his place.

Right because Chris Paul gets a ton of shit for not winning a game in the second round since 2007. And he plays in the tiny LA market so why would people pay attention to his team?