Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

Please note that this question is coming from someone who just found out weeks ago and just got on medication. And please be easy, I don't want to come of ignorant but there are a few things I need to know.

Once my VL has become undectable, do you think it's necessary to always tell your sexual partner about your status if you absolutely protect? Not talking about a long term partner, but just perhaps a "hookup"?

I'd like to hear advice but also some experiences from others. Thanks!

This is comming from someone who've done outreach. (don't tell anyone) ;-) But the optimum course of action is for people to disclose their status and to also use protection. Barring that, if you don't disclose, we advised people to at least practice safer sex. Because the reality is not everyone will disclose. Some even have unsafe sex knowing they're poz. But we tried our best to discourage that.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

I know you'll find difference of opinion here and in the population at large. Some believe you have no responsibility to tell, as long as you use protection. They often view it as what your own moral compass tells you to do, opposed to the moral compasses of others. Many believe we should always disclose, in the event a condom should break. And, in case things get heated and no condom is used, especially if under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Of course, a few believe they don't need to wear condoms or disclose. They believe if the person is willing to do it and not ask, then it is on them. And, some believe it is okay to just lie, if they are asked.

You have to consider all the criminalization cases happening. Just like protecting ourselves legally in other matters, we have to protect ourselves legally with sex now. I am not dating or hooking up, so I don't know what it is like to have to disclose, even for oral sex. I can only imagine the stress that puts on people, especially if you're on meds and using protection.

I think you will have to decide what's right for you. And, keep the criminalization in mind, when deciding. If I were hooking up, the legal issues would worry me.

This is comming from someone who've done outreach. (don't tell anyone) ;-) But the optimum course of action is for people to disclose their status and to also use protection. Barring that, if you don't disclose, we advised people to at least practice safer sex. Because the reality is not everyone will disclose. Some even have unsafe sex knowing they're poz. But we tried our best to discourage that.

Hi Clinton, welcome to the forum.

Are you poz yourself, or are you a neg guy who does outreach? (either way, kudos on the outreach - we need more people doing that)

If you're poz yourself, how do you handle this in your own life?

If you're neg, you really shouldn't be posting in the Living forum as it is meant for positive people only.

Still, welcome to the forums. There are other sections you can post in if your neg, just make sure you read the Welcome threads that appear at the top of some forum index pages before you post. Thanks!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Tenzen, for a start, you need to find out what the hiv criminalisation laws are like in your state.

You'll find an interactive map of the US on the front page at The Seroproject. Click on the icon for your state and a pop-up window will appear which details the laws in your state. Warning - a video will start once the page is loaded, so if you're on the internet within earshot of others, you may want to mute your speakers before you open the page. Just sayin.

If you're going to have sex without disclosure, make sure you know how to use condoms correctly as correctly used condoms rarely break.

There are two main causes of condom breakage.

One is not using enough lube, or using the wrong type of lube. Make sure your lube does not contain any oils or petroleum products - use water-based lube - and use plenty of it.

The other is having an air bubble in the tip. When you put a condom on, you need to pinch the tip while rolling the condom down with the other hand.

Once the condom is on, give it what I call the "stroke test". Give the condom (and obviously the dick inside!) a firm stroke from tip to base, while watching the tip. If there's air in there, you'll see it at the tip.

If there IS air present, roll it back up and try again. Once you're sure there's no air, apply plenty of lube and go for it.

If you're bottoming, you can give your top the stroke test before you allow him to enter you.

Also, as a bottom you are the most likely one to know when more lube is needed. If you feel things getting dry or sticky, apply more lube. Even your spit is better than nothing (and better than oil based lubes).

If you're topping, make sure you re-apply lube now and then.

If you haven't disclosed beforehand and the condom breaks, you need to fess up and let the guy know so he can decide if he wants to seek PEP, particularly if you're the top.

Also, you need to realise that once you're undetectable, also being undetectable in your cum can be dependant on factors such as having some other STI like gonorrhea or chlamydia, herpes or syphilis. If you want to be as confident as possible that your cum is also UD, make sure you get regular STI check ups.

Most other STIs are MUCH more easily contracted than hiv and many of them can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test. And test regularly. My hiv clinic makes sure every one of us is tested for other STIs - the frequency depends on the circumstances of our sex lives.

Personally, I always disclose before sex. Always, always, always. For me, it's not so much a morality thing, it's a "I don't want to end up with an hiv-phobic arsehole who is going to try to prosecute me or beat the living daylights out of me if a condom breaks and I have to disclose after the fact" thing.

Hope this information has been useful for you.

Ann

edited to add...

PS - also read through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them correctly and with confidence. The Condoms are a girl's best friend link is particularly informative.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Are you poz yourself, or are you a neg guy who does outreach? (either way, kudos on the outreach - we need more people doing that)

If you're poz yourself, how do you handle this in your own life?

If you're neg, you really shouldn't be posting in the Living forum as it is meant for positive people only.

Still, welcome to the forums. There are other sections you can post in if your neg, just make sure you read the Welcome threads that appear at the top of some forum index pages before you post. Thanks!

Ann

I've been poz since "02". And I've been on this website for 6-7 years now. I've just never posted to the forums before. Actually, the only reason I'm on here now was to find an answer to a question someone else asked on a different std dating site. And just ended up responding to a couple of posts while I was on here.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

I'm sorry. I forgot to answer your question. Most of the time, I do tell the other person that I'm poz. Not all the time. Maybe 85% of the time I do. If they ask me, or even if they hint at wanting to know my status, I always tell them the truth.

And yes. I ALWAYS practice safe sex. I can count on one hand the number of guys that I've had unprotected sex with. And that's only because they said they were poz also and didn't want to use a condom and didn't have any other STD's Yeah, I know. People lie. Which is why after wreastling with it for a while, I no longer have unprotected sex no matter what.

And yes. I know that I should disclose each and every time. But my reasons, along with a lot of other people's is that there are times that I get desperate for human contact. Which leads me to not disclose every time. Which is why a lot of people do it from what I learned in training. Which is why people stay with the person who infected them if they were in a relationship. Because they think they can't get anyone else. The same reason people who sleep around don't get tested. So they can keep doing what they're doing with impunity.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

I know that I should disclose each and every time. But my reasons, along with a lot of other people's is that there are times that I get desperate for human contact. Which leads me to not disclose every time. Which is why a lot of people do it from what I learned in training. Which is why people stay with the person who infected them if they were in a relationship. Because they think they can't get anyone else. ?? The same reason people who sleep around don't get tested. So they can keep doing what they're doing with impunity.?

Huh???

Let me check to see if I understand your logic. You think people stay with a lover who transmits HIV because they think they can't get a new lover....

Well dear. Maybe in a few cases. I hope this isn't the general wisdom of your outreach, however.

And "people who sleep around" - that would be the sluts right? They don't get tested so they can keep being sluts? This is incredibly vague. I think you mean to say (and its pretty offensive) - people who have lots of unsafe sex, sleeping around, don't get tested because then they don't have to face the truth they might be HIV+?

Well, I guess, in a few cases. But in your hypothetical situation, if they do transmit HIV because they do NOT know they are HIV+, they don't necessarily enjoy "impunity".

You have a pretty pessimistic and stereotypical view on things. In fact, I'm not sure what the hell you are trying to say.

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Let me check to see if I understand your logic. You think people stay with a lover who transmits HIV because they think they can't get a new lover....

Well dear. Maybe in a few cases. I hope this isn't the general wisdom of your outreach, however.

And "people who sleep around" - that would be the sluts right? They don't get tested so they can keep being sluts? This is incredibly vague. I think you mean to say (and its pretty offensive) - people who have lots of unsafe sex, sleeping around, don't get tested because then they don't have to face the truth they might be HIV+?

Well, I guess, in a few cases. But in your hypothetical situation, if they do transmit HIV because they do NOT know they are HIV+, they don't necessarily enjoy "impunity".

You have a pretty pessimistic and stereotypical view on things. In fact, I'm not sure what the hell you are trying to say.

Actually, I think you've heard me quite well. I'm not saying a there's a lot of people who stay in relationships because they don't think they can't get anyone else. But there's enough of them out there for it to be noticed by the CDC. That's not to say that most of them don't end up leaving once they've gained the courage to do so. Be it through counseling or some other support system.

And in fact, people who do have multiple partners do enjoy a bit of impunity. Legaly, because they can say that they didn't know that they had the virus. And unless you can force them by court order to get an HIV test, they can keep denying that they have anything. Rationalizing to themselves to keep on doing what they're doing.

And do I have a pessimistic view of things? Yes. I'm Bi-Sexual. I live in a medum sized city. I'm on a few dating as well as sex sites. You would not believe the number of men and women that I've met who said they were negative or didn't say anything at all untill I said that I was poz. And then all of a sudden, "Oh, I'm poz also."

So yes. With learning what I've learned at LTI and my training to become a peer, as well as some of my own personal experiences, yes, I am a bit jaded.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

And in fact, people who do have multiple partners do enjoy a bit of impunity. Legaly, because they can say that they didn't know that they had the virus. And unless you can force them by court order to get an HIV test, they can keep denying that they have anything. Rationalizing to themselves to keep on doing what they're doing.

OK but get your terms and categories consistent. You keep switching between people with multiple partners and people who have HIV.... Not the same thing, right??

All people who have multiple partners don't have unsafesex.All people who have multiple partners are not HIV+.All people who have multiple partners are not HIV+ and don't know it. etc etc.

I think you should talk about HIV status, known and unknown, and safe and unsafe sex.... and control a bit your tendency to wander over into unspoken, and sometimes spoken, assumptions about people who have a lot of sex....

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

OK but get your terms and categories consistent. You keep switching between people with multiple partners and people who have HIV.... Not the same thing, right??

All people who have multiple partners don't have unsafesex.All people who have multiple partners are not HIV+.All people who have multiple partners are not HIV+ and don't know it. etc etc.

I think you should talk about HIV status, known and unknown, and safe and unsafe sex.... and control a bit your tendency to wander over into unspoken, and sometimes spoken, assumptions about people who have a lot of sex....

I'm primarily refering to people who suspect that they have the virus but don't get tested because they don't want to know. That's the point that I'm trying to make.

I know not all people who have multiple partners are poz. I was very prolific after my kids' mother passed away from cancer. And I was always safe. Except for four times. Two were with women. And since I believed them to be clean and I usually only date older women, I didn't use a condom. And two were men. One being my Ex-boyfrined, and one was this guy who I hooked up with and the condom broke. And instead of making him get another one, I let him finish. And since I used to get tested every year, I know I got it from one of the four.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

And do I have a pessimistic view of things? Yes. I'm Bi-Sexual. I live in a medum sized city. I'm on a few dating as well as sex sites. You would not believe the number of men and women that I've met who said they were negative or didn't say anything at all untill I said that I was poz. And then all of a sudden, "Oh, I'm poz also."

I hope you not taking your experiences from online dating and sex sites and inferring that all people with HIV behave or act the same way.

If your jaded because of these experiences is it possible that its the method of meeting people that's part of the negative experience?

It must just be me......but there are sooooo many posts here about sex sites recently and people speak of them as if the majority of the population is seeking their romance connection through them. I don't get it.

I know not all people who have multiple partners are poz. I was very prolific after my kids' mother passed away from cancer. And I was always safe. Except for four times. Two were with women. And since I believed them to be clean and I usually only date older women, I didn't use a condom. And two were men. One being my Ex-boyfrined, and one was this guy who I hooked up with and the condom broke. And instead of making him get another one, I let him finish. And since I used to get tested every year, I know I got it from one of the four.

Okidokey. I think we are heading off a tangent from the OP. Sorry if I contributed to that.

One little thing... You are HIV+, right? When you do your outreach, would you please stop calling HIV- people "clean"? Thank you.

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I hope you not taking your experiences from online dating and sex sites and inferring that all people with HIV behave or act the same way.

If your jaded because of these experiences is it possible that its the method of meeting people that's part of the negative experience?

It must just be me......but there are sooooo many posts here about sex sites recently and people speak of them as if the majority of the population is seeking their romance connection through them. I don't get it.

I'm not saying that it's the norm. I'm just saying that I'm cognisant of the fact that it's out there. I've met some really great people on line. Quite a few that I've developed long-distance friendships with. A few where we discussed one of us moving to be with the other. On the other STD site that I'm on, besides the occasional scammer, we have a lot of fun on the blogs. So I know that it's not representative of the majority.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

Okidokey. I think we are heading off a tangent from the OP. Sorry if I contributed to that.

One little thing... You are HIV+, right? When you do your outreach, would you please stop calling HIV- people "clean"? Thank you.

I don't do outreach any longer. And no, I've never said that on outreach. That insinuates that HIV+ people are dirty in some way. Which I do appologise for. The terms that we used were positve and negative.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

And in fact, people who do have multiple partners do enjoy a bit of impunity. Legaly, because they can say that they didn't know that they had the virus. And unless you can force them by court order to get an HIV test, they can keep denying that they have anything. Rationalizing to themselves to keep on doing what they're doing.

So yes. With learning what I've learned at LTI and my training to become a peer, as well as some of my own personal experiences, yes, I am a bit jaded.

Actually there as a case in California a few years ago that made the news. The man who transmitted HIV to his wife was convicted based on the fact that, given the number of partners/unsafe sex, combined with his abject refusal to get tested, he had reason to suspect he might have an STD. Even before he tested positive (which was, I believe, at the court's request.)

And not to pile on here, but please with the term "clean." I know it's ancient, but it's still not a good way to describe someone without an STD.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Actually there as a case in California a few years ago that made the news. The man who transmitted HIV to his wife was convicted based on the fact that, given the number of partners/unsafe sex, combined with his abject refusal to get tested, he had reason to suspect he might have an STD. Even before he tested positive (which was, I believe, at the court's request.)

And not to pile on here, but please with the term "clean." I know it's ancient, but it's still not a good way to describe someone without an STD.

Actually, the case in California would be a bit different than with someone who only hooked-up with someone else. 1.) The wife was aware of her husbands cheating. And 2.) She was either told that he didn't use condoms, or she had to be aware that he didn't like to use them. In my scenareo, the other person would have no idea how many sexual partners this person may have had. Nor would they know if they never/ rairly/mostly/ or always used a condom. Except for the time(s) they were together. If they were only together once, he/she could say that I normaly do use a condom. I just didn't that one time. If they were together multipule times, then the other person might have a case. But they still wouldn't know his/her number of sexual partners. Not unless the courts went public with his name and declared him a public health risk and asked if anyone in the public had been with him to contact the police. (Re: Nashaun williams) But a lot of things had to come together for him to be prosicuted.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

clintonjrsyr, I suggest you not have sex in Ohio and not disclose or your ass will be sitting in jail. Ohio doesn't like the partner not being given a choice even if they are also at fault.

I don't know if you've read my previous post, but most of the time I do tell. Very rarely do I not tell. And I always have safe sex. As for sex in Ohio, I'm neither stupid enough nor nieve enough to believe that everyone in Ohio who's poz discloses their status when they have sex with someone. As I've referenced a report that was handed out in one of my trainings by the CDC, there are people who know that they're poz and still have unprotected sex with people, there are people who don't disclose, but practice safer sex, and there are those who always disclose. And no state is immune from that fact. I know that you're not telling me that everyone who's poz and had sex without disclosing to their partner is sitting in or has been to jail for it now, are you.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

Sorry. I'm not sure as to whom you're refering. I'm just talking about two random people hooking up for sex. There is no exchange of money or goods.

My apologies for veering your thread off topic. I was just pointing out how strict some states are concerning HIV prosecution. Since it has nothing to do with the topic, I probably shouldn't have posted.

My apologies for veering your thread off topic. I was just pointing out how strict some states are concerning HIV prosecution. Since it has nothing to do with the topic, I probably shouldn't have posted.

It's not off topic. But It's not my thread. It's tenzen's thread. And my appologies to you tenzen. But my views and my logic has been questioned. I've been called inconsistant. All of which I feel the need to answer.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

I don't know if you've read my previous post, but most of the time I do tell. Very rarely do I not tell. And I always have safe sex. As for sex in Ohio, I'm neither stupid enough nor nieve enough to believe that everyone in Ohio who's poz discloses their status when they have sex with someone. As I've referenced a report that was handed out in one of my trainings by the CDC, there are people who know that they're poz and still have unprotected sex with people, there are people who don't disclose, but practice safer sex, and there are those who always disclose. And no state is immune from that fact. I know that you're not telling me that everyone who's poz and had sex without disclosing to their partner is sitting in or has been to jail for it now, are you.

Yes, I read it, and that "Most of the time" wouldn't work here. Either you advise "ALL" your partners before sex or you don't have sex.

I've just read something on another thread that made a whole lot of sense. I have people on here telling me that I need to tell each and every time, no exceptions. (which I know) I have people telling me that I should never go to Ohio. And it just has me wondering. Are you all telling me this for my own good? Or because you have your own unresolved issues regurding being infected because the other person didn't inform you of their status? We all know that we should tell. But people make mistakes. Not one of us are perfect. If we were, we wouldn't be mortal. Oh, and rapid ron. You never did answer my question. Is everyone who never informed their partner in or has been in jail?

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./

You're right. There was only one person who called me out on this thread. I erroniously included where you said a prostitution charge becomes a felony if she is positive. I thought there were more, but there weren't. I appologise.

Logged

Live like there is no tomorrow, love like you've never been hurt before, and dance as if no one is watching./

To live is to suffer. To survive is to find meaning in the suffering./

Just because someone doesn't love you the way that you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all that they have./

All men are alike in their promises. It's in their actions that they differ./