Bumgarner: “I’m almost about to be an old man … I turn 24 in a couple of weeks.”

Happy All-Star break, everyone. It didn’t start as much of a break for me — I wrote two stories yesterday. You can find a Marco Scutaro story here, and below I’ve posted my Madison Bumgarner feature. He doesn’t get much attention compared to others, but right now he’s the undisputed ace of the staff at a time when he’s younger than many of baseball’s top prospects …

They’ll be introduced one by one on Tuesday night in New York as Major League Baseball celebrates a new generation of budding stars.

There’s the Mets’ Matt Harvey, the 24-year-old starter for the National League, and Patrick Corbin, the 23-year-old Diamondback with an 11-1 record. The American League has two 24-year-old Cy Young candidates, Chris Sale of the White Sox and Matt Moore of the Rays. These pitchers are youthful providers of hope for fan bases dreaming of one day cheering for World Series champions.

Madison Bumgarner already has two rings, and he’s younger than all of them.

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“It’s pretty cool, I guess,” said the 23-year-old Bumgarner.“ But I forget my age most of the time.”

Most do.

Bumgarner, midway through his third full season, already has 46 wins and has pitched 15 scoreless innings in two World Series victories. He is an accomplished and mature pitcher, but when he lines up for his first All-Star Game, he will also be the second youngest of 35 pitchers on the field. Only 20-year-old Miami rookie Jose Fernandez was born after Bumgarner’s August 1, 1989 birthdate.

“He’s a phenom,” said Hunter Pence, a two-time All-Star. “But nobody notices because of how humble he is. He’s humble and he’s also a superstar. That’s a rare thing.”

The description is one that’s given over and over again as teammates are asked to describe Bumgarner’s ascension to ace status during a rough first half. Bumgarner is said to be one of the first players to the park every day, already deep into lifting, running, video study or mechanical work as others show up.

“You never see him satisfied,” Ryan Vogelsong said.
Vogelsong used to tease Bumgarner about that. The youngster would have a great performance and come back the next day and try to make changes to his delivery or approach.

“I was like, Bum, why are you trying to change?” the 35-year-old Vogelsong said, smiling and shaking his head. “Well, he’s not trying to change. He’s trying to get better. He can change one thing one day and use it in a game the next day. He’s the first guy I’ve ever seen do that. I don’t think he gets enough credit for being a great athlete.”

Exhibit A is Game 2 of last October’s World Series. Bumgarner has admitted that he wore down at the end of his longest season in baseball and he gave up 10 earned runs in his first two postseason starts. But Bumgarner and pitching coach Dave Righetti found the right adjustment before Game 2 and the left-hander gave up two hits over seven innings.

It turned out to be a preview of what was to come.

Bumgarner is 10-5 with a 3.02 ERA at the break and ranks among the league leaders in batting average against (second at .191), WHIP (third at 0.95), strikeouts (eighth at 122) and innings (ninth at 125).

The Giants are 43-51 after falling apart in the past month, but Bumgarner hasn’t been part of that. Since June 14, the Giants are 5-1 in his starts and just 4-19 behind everyone else. Bumgarner has pitched exactly seven innings in each of those starts and given up a total of nine earned runs.

“He just gets better and better,” manager Bruce Bochy said. “At his age, the progress he’s made is impressive. He doesn’t get the credit sometimes for being the pitcher that he is. You talk about, well, he’s got deception and a good fastball, but he really knows what he’s doing out there.”

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Teammates say Bumgarner religiously studies hitters’ tendencies and umpires’ strike zones. He is quick to adjust, too, as he showed when he struck out Yasiel Puig three times two weeks after the Dodgers rookie baffled Bumgarner by lining an outside pitch over the fence.

The rise to stardom has been a quiet one. You won’t find Bumgarner posing nude like Harvey did recently or hyping video games like Justin Verlander. The Hickory, North Carolina native is as country as ever, wearing cowboy boots and a big belt buckle every day and occasionally adding a bolo tie to his suit when the team has a formal flight.

This provides constant entertainment in a clubhouse where teammates lovingly refer to the 6-foot-5, 230-pounder as Bum and jokingly ask reporters if they need a translator for his postgame interviews. Bumgarner’s wit is as sharp as his slider and he always fires right back.

“You see him in the offseason and yeah, he is a cowboy,” Vogelsong said. “But during the summer, he’s a baseball player. A baseball player that likes to talk hunting and fishing.”

Bumgarner, now an All-Star player, was carrying high-tech fishing rods as he prepared to board a flight to New York on Sunday night. In a game full of aces and superstars, he is a perfect fit, having accomplished more than most pitchers will in their full careers.

That he’s done all this at 23 might be the most impressive fact of all. Just don’t tell that to Bumgarner.

“It doesn’t matter — I’m almost about to be an old man, anyway,” he said. “I turn 24 in a couple of weeks.”

Alex Pavlovic

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Great article on Bum…….so nice to hear about a regular guy who just happens to be a great pitcher!!

ClutchUp

Matthew says: July 16th, 2013 at 2:23 pm
” Krukowism”

Matthew: Krukow and Kuiper are the perfect duo. Apart from one another they wouldn’t be as tolerable, as good or as funny. Their job can be difficult = Liked or not liked they must work their grind.

Mike produced a stud-like quality of children and married early and had a so-so to good career but WAS a good teammate on both bad and memorable teams.

Kuiper did not marry until after he finished playing. (Insert here how much fun Duane had that Mikey did not) “Let Mikey try it”. “I’m sorry I can’t, I have 4-5 little one’s home in diapers”

Smoothie loved playing the Ponies at Bay Meadows and would set his alarm to about 4am in order to have coffee at a local San Mateo Coffee Shop where all the jockeys would eat (do they even eat) in order to get tips on injuries to horses etc.

Smoothie was also never without an active social life. Now, living in Danville with his wife (two kids/one apiece) he actually regrets NOT doing it the “Krukow way” and having kids during his career so they perhaps could have seen him play.

Mikey Krukow will grate on ‘you’ if you let him. As a Color guy he goes out of bounds a lot but he did take the lead over Kuip in 2010 and his portion of the speech was EPIC

I ignore Krukow when I know he’s gonna pi$$ me off and whenever I am fortunate to see Duane up close and personal I say hi, remind him about Heide Pies and then I just smile remembering how much he enjoyed his life as a Giant ball player as a single guy.

He’ll also smile and tell you that on his one home run he slid into second base only to have the umpire tell him it went out. One of his other best lines is to remind people that he hit three ground rule doubles but that’s when Mike interjects that he (Krukow) went yard 5 times in 14 years.

ClutchUp

Thanks Alex for your Scutaro and Bumgarner articles. Good stuff!

Hey CC – Anti and many others. Here’s another yet different article on Timmy and all things his mechanics. Enjoy.

Claro que si the Gigantes should spend pesos in the Cuban market. Obviously there’s major league talent on that island. And if they want to keep pace with the Dodgers in the future, they better think about spending more in the international market.

It would be cool to read a scouting report or two on those Lancadores Cubanos. If the reports aren’t out yet, they will be soon.

===

And a hearty ‘welcome back’ to Primetimedonna.

===

Bumgarner sure put those bum shoulder concerns to rest in 2013.

Thanks for the piece, Alejandro.

Go National League !! Keep the streak alive.

Primetimedonna

Thanks, Foothills……glad to be back.

Keep’n It Real

@Foothills

You scared me with the start of your response…no habla…but I agree with you that the Giants need a strategy to combat the Dodgers spending. I’m not thinking dollar-for-dollar type of strategy, but something more than they’re doing now.

I do know that Baer has talked about the buildings going up in the current pier parking lot areas as a method to increase spending revenue (in lieu of a TV Deal like the Dodgers), but I’ll be that outgoing cash flow when I see it.

Keep’n It Real

typo correction: “but I’ll beLIEVE that outgoing cash flow when I see it.”

For any of you that think
BELT, has little or no potential
look at Chris Davis’s early years,
maybe more HRS, but I would
contend if Davis hits 60 HRS this
year, BELT is easily capable of hitting
20+ HRS per year and minimum
10SB’s if he gets the green light.
(12 SB”S 2012)

channelclemente

I never knew Mr. Snotrocket Bumgarner spent that much time with film. I wonder if he’s got a Cy Young (or two) in his future. Smart pitchers get better, and better with time.

CU,

I don’t dislike Krukow, he’s just gotten into a rut. When they were using that high def, super slow motion stuff on pitches occassionally, he was great. That’s one of the reason to move that center field camera, and give Krukow more to showcase. He needs, IMO, to go dance with the subject that brung him here more, I’d say.

ClutchUp

Remember when August of 2010 was sucking and it was NOT gonna happen then either?
Foothills you are such a foothills-multi talented Dodger/Angel fan I never picked up on it back then and it was right there for all of us to see!http://blogs.mercurynews.com/giants/2010/08/30/postgame-notes-the-broken-bat-heard-round-the-bay/#comment-55182
AKA: Detached rational fan. So answer us this? Are you now rational or are you now only detatched?
Detached/Rational Fan says:
August 31st, 2010 at 6:23 am
If Sanchez want to win games like these, he has to execute all aspects of his game:
Get sacrifice bunt down.
Field Position.
Don’t give away free pa$$es.
Then he should be okay. More outings like his last night and his trade value should go up a little.

In the mean time, a detached and rational fan like myself can sleep at night because I have no expectations. If the Giants make a tantalizing run through the playoffs and win a World Series, I am no better the man for it.

However, they most likely will not. Playing .500 the rest of the way is the most likely outcome. Lately playing .400 ball.

From an organizational standpoint, this offseason should be interesting.
Keep your heads about you mates.

channelclemente

CU,

that somax video is pretty damn cool.

MLBSF

Alex if you can believe it, I am giving you an A for your work in the first half.

I like giving you a hard time because, well, it’s fun for me. But I appreciate all the work you do for the blog. It’s really good.

But don’t think I’m going to stop badgering you from time to time.

smh

MLBSF

choyboy0724 says:
July 16th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
374..

Woj…. do this blog a favor and leave because you are not a giants fan. You are a 100 percent jerk.

======

I completely disagree. Woj is a truth-teller and I agree with practically everything he writes.

In fact when I read his posts, I think to myself “Hmm, do I have a twin?”

Anyway choyboy0724, you and your fellow employees in the Giants publicity/season ticket sales office should be mad at the people who are responsible for this mess of a season….not Woj or anyone else.

smh

MLBSF

Choyboy, just kidding. I actually think Woj is wacked. Remember he’s a former spoiled tennis brat who trys to throw his weight around here on ‘my’ blog.

That’s right you heard me. This my blog, crapmots blog and Sammantha’s blog.

smh

TheNoseKnows

Giants we’re looking that great in Aug 2010 to be sure – but I dont think they were 8 games under .500 with 3 teams ahead of them at that years’ all star break, either. And that matters.

MLBSF

@ 16

STOP impersonating meeee

ClutchUp

Ann Killion on KNBR

dm

Aug 1, 1982 4th place

SFG 50 54 481 12.0

Sept 30, 1982 tied for 2nd

SFG 86 73 .541 1.0

they lost a few in the last week
but it can be done
yes there was a ten game win streak in there

Lefty

The Giants WERE in fourth place at the All-Star Break in 2010, but I think they were 4 1/2 games out(?). They’d actually been 7.5 out only a week or two earlier but went on a run right before the break. They had a great July, carried by NL Player of the Month Buster Posey, Aubrey Huff, and Andres Torres.

Then they hit a skid in August when the starters went into a horrible slump. They were 6.5 out in the last week of August but were helped by an extremely well timed 10-game losing streak by the first-place Padres.

So you can look at this history any way you care to. You can discount it because the Giants have played so poorly the last couple of months or you can note that it’s only the middle of July, they’re not that far back, and they have a lot of head-to-head games with the teams in front of them.

Bapah

Clutch,
I DID like the clip of the ah ole when he didn’t call his time in time. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

Speaking of nice guys; what a class act Mo is. I wish he would work with Timmy for a few months after the season ends. I’ve said before, he could be the next Mo. Not a classier guy around. Oh,… and talented/gifted as well.

dm

Lefty ,
your recalll always amazes me. I read your entries and say to my self ‘oh yes, now i remember’
and they are usually good memories….thanks particullarly of the last few years

MLBSF

My initial grades were way too emotional. Pacman actualy had the most level headed grades. My love of my team makes me be harsh.

#24 has to be an impostor, too. MLBSF would never say he’s been “way too emotional” or “harsh.” Also, doesn’t the real one have an avatar?

Since the impostor called Pacman “level-headed,” j’accuse Pac of impersonating MLBSF.

As for the different flavors of KetchUp and Sam, I’m totally lost.

The Real KetchUp

Hang in there MLBSF he’ll get tired and leave. TRK

Polioptila Veintiocho

We can only hope that BadGums does not cost the NL home advantage in an otherwise meaningless exhibition.

The Real KetchUp

Lefty says:
July 16th, 2013 at 5:39 pm
As for the different flavors of KetchUp and Sam, I’m totally lost.
———
Lefty,
The Real Ketchup debuted yesterday and immediately became a hit on GE. On the same day as my release a generic version of ketchup appeared but was using the same label The Real Ketchup. I May have to trademark my version of ketchup of get an avatar, to avoid confusion with the generic brand imposter.

totalfan62

McCarver: “Miguel Cabrera is one of the top 10 hitters in the history of the game”.

Unbelievably dumb thing to say. Seriously time for McCarver to retire. Don’t even wait until end of season. Just go home

YadierMolinaisthebest

Tool fan:
Avid listeners of the alternative metal band known as Tool. Tool fans believe that, by listening to music with no concept of time signatures and pseudo-cryptic lyrics sang by a man known as Maynard Ivory James Keenan Wayans, it puts them on a higher intellectual and musical plateau than fans of non-”prog” bands. You can pick a Tool fan out of a crowd easily, by looking for a college student who speaks of issues which he has little to no understanding of, rants about conspiracy theories, is a half-hearted activist and constantly reeks of bong water. A Tool fan, as a rule, will never look presentable, wearing yesterday’s hoodie and a baseball cap over his unwashed and shaggy hair.

Bochy’s Thunderskull

Kershaw wears #22 in honor of Will Clark??!!

He’s not completely horrible, I guess.

The Real Honey Badger Mustard Mayo

Nobody out does Sam-son.
King of
Sam
The Real KetchUp
Numb Cashews
NeverBeenRunnnitt
Never been Sar-gento
Never been Sybil-TiTi Mack
Never been VietVet68
Never been BayAreaRogue
Never been MelkDuds
Never been FireSabean

I am Sam Man
I am Man of Sam

Sam has an iconic ring to it
God-Like

The Real Ketchup

The Real Honey Badger Mustard Mayo are you radio only for the all star game?

channelclemente

Foothills,

do you ever forget where you live.

The Real Ketchup

Still 73 hours until game time.

The Real KetchUp

I meant to say or *get* an avatar. I wrote *of* get an avatar. I really meant to write get but instead I wrote of. I’m really really sorry.

The Real Ketchup

Nope wrong. I meant to say and get an avatar.

Not of.

Nice try though.

Gumby Shoulders

Geez. Even Bochy’s All-Stars can’t get a hit.

Polioptila Veintiocho

“Even Bochy’s All-Stars can’t get a hit.”

Perhaps because, given his ability to judge talent, he left the best players off?

Doughnut

If the Giants do decide to sell, I hope they keep Lincecum. They will still be able to offer him a QO if he leaves, but hopefully they can resign him. The QO should keep his price down a little bit. There are some guys, very few, that I think should not ever be traded. Tim Lincecum changed this franchise imo, or at least played a big part in it. He has done so much for this and selling him is something the marlins would do. Keep him resign him, overpay if you hav to. I know people may disagree but thats how I feel. The worst thing that happens is you still get a draft pick in return if he does leave. Not a big drop off from a trade deal although there could be some. These deals are still risky and no guarantee it works. Hope they don’t trade him, it would just be wrong imo.
Romo I could see making some sense if they got the right deal. Hopefully none of this stuff is important.

Avisail Garcia i think is very overhyped. He looks a lot like Miguel Cabrera especially the way he acts (and i know nobody is expecting him to be Cabrera) but i think it is iffy that he even pans out. I am not as sold on him at all. I think he still has to develop some and I don’t see him as any kind of lock to be an above average player in the majors. Think he is overvalued.

ClutchUp

43 yr old Mo Rivera with his sub 1 post season era will get a chance
hopefully to relish in this his final ASG.

Love McCutch. Remember when the Fake GM’s here were beckoning his coming out West.

Love that he signed a nice big contract to stay a Bucco.

Doughnut

I think Romo has some value. I am not sure that long term he is a good fit for a closer. He puts a lot of pressure on his elbow and the more he pitches the more other teams figure him out. His value may be the highest it will be right now. If i had my choice he would be an 8th inning guy with a good closer. He can’t pitch many days in a row and I don’t see how that gets better. Hopefully none of this matters because they won’t need to sell.
I do think he is one of the smarter pitchers on this staff and understands exactly what he needs to do to be successful. His control gives him value and he knows it. That is a valuable tool for pitchers.

If some team is desperate and they view Romo as a top tier closer it might be a good spot for the Giants to get good value back for him.

The Real Ketchup

@The Real Honey Badger Mustard Mayo

I think you forgot never been NRI.

avwh

NL still at a DH disadvantage: Cuddyer hits 8th as DH, while Ortiz is in the middle of the order for the AL.

Gumby Shoulders

Where’s Scoots, Bum and Romo? Come on, Bochy!

Woj

There have been multiple criticisms all warranted of the Giants scouting department and draft choices. Turns out the drafting of Brock Bond who BTW is on the cusp of making Giants turns out was a clerical error. Amazing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Bond

The San Francisco Giants drafted Bond in the 24th round of the 2007 MLB Draft. The selection was a mistake, as the Giants meant to select Casey Bond. The Giants then selected Casey Bond in the 25th round.

Just comical – the ‘Bond’ they wanted to draft and did in the 25th round flamed out after 2 years but the mistake choice is in Fresno and should have been called up for a cup of coffee with the G’s last year when rosters expanded.

So when you see Sabean and Evans next with their cool dude sunglasses on know that part of the 2007 draft class is being saved by a clerical error.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Well, at least the game’s still in reach, unless Bochy puts BadGums or Romo in.

avwh

NL hitters are making Bochy feel really familiar: one hit through 6 innings, not a single runner in scoring position.

Woj

Ah the curse of Hensley Meulens. If this guy coached Babe Ruth – the Babe would be hitting swinging bunts and K’ing reguarly.
Meulens would turn Willie Mays into Charlie Hayes.

Woj

Now all of the N.L. is saying – keep that Meulens guy in San Francisco. He’s doing just fine screwing up the offense there when we visit.

Woj

Now all of the N.L. is saying – keep that Meulens guy in San Francisco. He’s doing just fine messing up the offense there when we visit.

South City Jim

I feel like I’ve watched this game 50 times already this season, only the names have changed.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Well, whaddya expect from the Busted Poseur? Another Gnatlike performance.

Lefty

I don’t really think we can blame Bam Bam for the entire NL All-Star team. Sheesh, this game’s a real snoozer, isn’t it? The only two runs have scored on a fielder’s choice and a sac fly. No really dominant pitching, either.

Manny Machado made a nice play at third, and Cano got hit on the knee with a 97 MPH fastball. And that’s about it for the highlights.

avwh

Jeez, Dom Brown could have easily slug-bunted a base hit down 3B with the shift the AL used. Instead, he struck out.

Yeah, these offenses have been as exciting as watching paint dry.

The Real Ketchup

Lefty,

You forget about the guy who ran onto the field because he got 1000 retweets. There’s a gif out there of security tackling him after he surrendered.

The Real Ketchup

This game is so bad, polio is forced to reuse his material. Wait he does that that anyways, nevermind

avwh

Well, now there’s also Brown’s misplay in LF – must have reminded Bochy of Torres’ D this season

Polioptila Veintiocho

It’s probably safe to put BadGums in now.

South City Jim

Dang, if the NL doesn’t come back, it means Zito will have to win game 1 of the WS on the road.

channelclemente

It’s playing in NY. What’s the score?

Lefty

TRK: Yeah, that guy should be the MVP. The runner, not the guard.

SF Giants Tommy

That was a really cool intro for Rivera. Classy on both sides of the diamond.

ClutchUp

Dom Brown had he slug bunted it might have been an AS first / those guys are hacking. Bochy and his staff prolly have said one word to any hitters. None of those non Giants got to the ASG with help from any hitting coaches. Hitting coaches basically rub their shoulders and say get em next time.

Hitting instruction? There’s none of that. You can either hit or you can’t.

Meanwhile, Muelens won a contest to be an astronaut in 2014. He’ll be giving battin lessons in outerspace to non-humans. George Noory will be the tour guide.

ClutchUp

Winnie
Winnie
Snorkel
Lucy

Are all sleeping

Lefty

SF Giants Tommy says:
July 16th, 2013 at 7:54 pm
That was a really cool intro for Rivera. Classy on both sides of the diamond.
—————

Since you mentioned “diamond,” LOL at Neil. That was baaaaaaaad.

avwh

CU:
It would have put the first RISP for the NL. Does he want the NL to win, or audition for the HR Derby one day late??

The Real Ketchup

McCutchen pinch ran and stole second earlier in the game to get into scoring position

SF Giants Tommy

Lefty,
Have to admit, I didn’t see the apparent pun in my post. Give Neil a break, the dude is a legend. To put it in perspective, how would Rivera do if he had to come out and pitch the bottom of the eighth at age 70 (guessing Neil’s age)

avwh

Oh yeah, forgot that. No one has reached 3B for the NL.

Matthew

Yeah, Woj, I’m SURE the NL hitters tonight decided to allow Bam Bam to tell them how to approach their at bats tonight…yup. Their lack of hitting is clearly because of the NL hitting coach…yup.

avwh

AL has had 3 leadoff doubles, one leadoff single, and a leadoff triple tonight. And I think at least one leadoff walk, as well.

Lefty

OK, NOW we have a real highlight (besides Mo the Sandman)–Prince Fielder doing his runaway beer truck thing to get a TRIPLE. On a POP-UP. I’m happy now.

Yeah, and no thanks on that Carlos Gomez guy in RF for us. Holy Candy Maldonado, Batman.

Just wondering

Every closer is a failed starter. If Rivera weren’t in NY there wouldnt be half this maudlin crap. Hate Fox baseball coverage

Matthew

Neil Diamond deserved no break, Tommy. Sorry… He had a mind numbing song become iconic to a team…and he now lives off of it. And, he was baaaaaaad….like he was after the Boston Marathon bombing return game when they trotted him out and he hacked his way through just as badly.

Lefty

Tommy: You know, I think I’d put my money on Mo to pitch when he’s 70.

As for Neil, maybe it was a sound issue–he sounded like he was way behind the recorded accompaniment.

Matthew

Lefty is en fuego tonight!

avwh

Lefty: Gomez just blew that popup catch on Fielder’s bloop b/c Bochy is used to Blanco AND Torres butchering OF plays in the same game.

So, he had to follow up Brown’s misplay to keep Bochy comfortable.

ClutchUp

811Just Wondering

Are you hatin on the Sandman

Doubtful that every reliever was a failed starter.

Read more internet stories…

The Oracle

I don’t care about the All Star game anymore. They’ve really diluted the meaning of being an All Star; expanded rosters, way too many pitchers, guys bowing out because they pitched Sunday. Also, Belt isn’t in the lineup. Who cares. I’m waiting for Friday.

Dave Barry had an absolutely classic column back in the 90s where he mocked Neil Diamond…and got torrents of hate mail from people who apparently worship the guy. And you can understand why people love him so much. Consider these genius lyrics:

“I am, I said./To no one there./And no one heard at all./Not even the chair.”

On the bright side, we get to see Grilli and Nathan, ex-Giants, do well.

SF Giants Tommy

Don’t get me wrong, I am not a big Neil fan. Perhaps I am just a bit caught up in the moment and being overly benevolent since the ASG is such a warm and fuzzy type of affair. The Mid-Summer Classic isn’t just a break for the players, but for the fans as well…especially those of us that have had to suffer through The Giants first half.

Bring on the next round.

avwh

All the money Diamond has made, he can’t afford a better toupee??

bad kitty

I love when the beat writers give us stories like this! Much better reading this than watching this lifeless ASG. No spark from the national league.

Lefty

avwh: I think Neil spent it all on his face.

ClutchUp

When is the second summer allstar game classic. They do play two games No like back in the day?

Is Selig asleep yet? Geesh he’s older than Neil the Diamond.

Jacquie Autry predicted AL win.

Gene is singing cowboy songs upstairs.

ClutchUp

Who wins?

Steve Moscovitz
Bruce Jenner
Neil Diamond

Pacman68

Glad to see Bochy brought his offense…lol.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Well, at least Bochy realized his players weren’t even good enough to be in a game this bad.

Just wondering

Mindless 7th inning stretch and a completely bogus MVP. Makes you wonder what exactly is on the up and up.

Just wondering

Trust me …. every reliever is a failed starter. They become relievers at some level because they dont have the stuff, stamina or pitch variety to be a starter. A mediocre starter contributes more than the greatest reliever.

“This is what it’s usually like here. Home team has two hits, and David Wright has one of them.”

Matthew

Well, I only saw the last two innings or so…lucky enough to see The Cadaver sing Sweet eet Caroline oline…(glad Lefty voted No Hollywood For You for the senior idol)

I see no Scoots, no Romo and no Mad Bum… Guess the gnatcatcher needs a lifeline for his next unfunny pointless attempt to humorlessly dis the boys. Hope our guys enjoyed their time. Nice that they have until Friday.

Enjoy the next two days…the roll starts soon!

avwh

Wow, Timmy’s no-hitter tied for 2nd, and Pagan’s ITPHR was the #1 highlight of the MLB first half, according to Fox, if you weren’t already asleep after the AS game ended.

ClutchUp

Wondering Justly

You’re not making sense. Baseball has always had “fireman” that come in.

Long
Middle
Short
Close

Dave Righetti was not a failed starter?
He went to the pen at Steinbrenner’s request.

#24 has to be an impostor, too. MLBSF would never say he’s been “way too emotional” or “harsh.” Also, doesn’t the real one have an avatar?

=====

This is true Lefty. Please like I would ever say I was too harsh. Not to mention I would never give Cain a C-

smh

Also, I don’t have an avatar when I post on my iPad. Only have an avatar when I post from my desk top. For some reason my IP address from my iPad has been banned or blocked or something.

smh

TheNoseKnows

Lefty…regardng 2010. Good recall. BUT…they weren’t 8 games (or any games?) under .500, were they? Which means to me that despite being whatever number of games behind or how many teams they were below in the standings, they weren’t playing similarlly wretched baseball.

I think if, for example, you’re 6 games back and 3 teams ahead of you but with a .500 record or better…that’s still far better than 6 games back, 3 teams in front of you but 8 games under .500 as we are right now? I think it’s a world of difference.

So, in conclusion…I dont think we should take much solace (or draw a lot of encouragement) when comparing this year’s team vs 2010 at this same relative point in the season. IMO.

Mooooooooooose

Last time I checked, 6 games out and 3 teams in front is 6 games out and 3 teams in front. You could easily argue it’s better to be under .500 in that situation because the teams ahead aren’t all that great.

MLBSF

Well Bochy is having just a fantastic year.

His NL team gets shut out by a bunch of good pitchers.

That could have been the most boring game I’ve ever seen….not to mention it looked like the Giants playing.

smh

H-Boston

This supposed to be Mariano Rivera’s last year? Wow he has got plenty more in the tank.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Just wondering says:
July 16th, 2013 at 8:38 pm

“Trust me …. every reliever is a failed starter. They become relievers at some level because they dont have the stuff, stamina or pitch variety to be a starter.”

So that’s why Lincescum’s getting traded to a team that needs a long man in the pen.

ClutchUp

Just Wondering how the new mommy and Frenchy daddy Francoeur’s are doing with their new baby girl born a day after Giant Forever’s no hitter.

So Melonhead thinks a team in fourth place that 90 games into the season is 40-50 deserves 4 All Stars. Then those four All Stars get a total of 1 At bat. Well done Melonhead.

The Real Ketchup

All the $hit going on the world right now and you’re wondering about some hack who has been here for 2 games and what he named his baby. I forget he was even on the team let alone in MLB until I read your post. He probably named her Ofer as in 0 for 4.

151-128 .541 win % as starter
20 game winner.
Only 3 years with losing record as starter.
361 GS – 100 CG

390 saves in 12 years as reliever.

DoggieBag

Clutch @ 9:40

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

carmot

channel (previous post):
“Everyone, to a man, I’d say, underestimated the importance of Pagan to this TEAM.”

—-
Really?

Nov 15th: “Gotta re-sign Pagan IMO, who else is gonna lead-off?”

Nov 16th: “I’m starting to see the way the OF free agency is shaping up, and Pagan will be a wanted man… Giants need him, period.”

Nov 25th: “If we can’t trade for a CF like Denard Span or Michael Brantley, I think we might have Blanco starting. Therefore, I think Pagan is our top priority.”

—
Nov 30th: “I decided to go research some metrics and rankings for possible signings (& current Giants). Looking at the MLB league leading Top-100 for each of these SIX categories puts a new perspective on things for me. I don’t include AVG or OBP, or UZR, or WAR or wOBA or BABIP. Just my six key choices.

Nov 30th: “His minor defensive deficiencies could be made up for by: (1) his lead-off production, (2) his base running, (3) Blanco in LF or (Blanco/Brown) late-inning replacement in CF… Pagan has specific VALUE here to this club, right now IMO.”
—-

Maybe NOT everyone underestimated Pagan’s value to this team. Cheeers.

Foothills Ryan

Vegas !! No break for you. Steadfast as the tides.

Let’s take a closer looksee at a couple Richmond Flying Squirrels:

Joe Panik is having another year with more BB’s than K’s (44:42). However, he’s only posting a .251 average with a .101 ISO. I don’t think he’ll be pushing Marco Scutaro off of 2nd base any time soon. Hopefully with a year plus in AAA, he can start driving the gaps better and make the transition during Scutaro’s age 50 season.

Andrew Susac seems to me to be having an under the radar year: 265/.374/.489, w/11 HRs. Nice BB rate and an ISO of .224 in that pitching friendly league. Depending on how his receiving and throwing is going, his stock is on the rise. Good to see somebody in Richmond making some noise; although you have to look into the numbers to hear that noise. I like the idea of moving Posey off of catcher and getting Susac behind the dish. But if stubbornness is going to prevail, or if Susac’s skills aren’t up to snuff, then Susac becomes a nice trade chip.

As for Adam Duvall, I think he’s another casualty of the Eastern League. A guy crushes the Cal League then gets humbled by real pitching and more realistic yards.
He’s at .245/.310/.439. And he turns 25 this September. Not too bad, and there was in injury in there earlier, but I’m sure the Giants were hoping he could continue the ascent and provide insurance against the departure of Pablo Sandoval.

Foothills Ryan

6.5 back with 3 teams ahead (3 better teams, mind you – yeah, Colorado has a meaty lineup and is in the market for a starter and are a reliever)…

The Yankees are 6 games back with three teams ahead and are 7 games over .500. They aren’t out of it.

The Royals are 8 games back with 2 teams ahead and are 6 games under .500. They aren’t going to overtake the Tigers or the Indians.

The Angels are 11 games back with 2 teams ahead are are 5 games under .500. Fork was inserted a long time ago into this pricey chunk of meat. Mike Trout is pretty awesome though. Bryce who?

The Phillies are 6.5 back with 2 teams ahead and are an even .500. I really don’t see them catching the Braves or even passing the Nats who are only half a game ahead of them.

The Reds are 5 games back with 2 teams ahead and are 11 games over .500. They’re plenty good enough to make a run, but it will be tough to make up 5 on the best team in baseball.

Put it this way:

If the Giants sweep the DBacks, they are back in !

If they take 2/3, they’ve moved a step in the right direction – it’s not over.

If they drop 2/3, they’ve taken a step in the wrong direction – looking bleak.

If they get swept, pack the bags for 2014 and sell where players can be sold.

Go second half Giants ! With hearty encouragement for Sabean’s phone.

The Oracle

I don’t buy the idea that the absence of Pagan has had a great deal to do with the team’s downturn. It may be a small, contributing factor, but the negative trend began before he got hurt (4-7 in his last 11 games). All of his numbers were down significantly from 2012.

avwh

Most amazing stat from the AS game: Allen Craig (Cal product, right?) since the start of last season is hitting .447 with RISP.

That, folks, is how you have 74 RBI at the AS break.

http://gravatar.com 2holehitting

Very nice article. Bum has always worked on his mechanics. When he first came up his fastball was in the high 80′s and not hte mid 902 that was reported, I believe he went back down worked out a flaw in his mechanics and came back up better.

Matt Cain, was a kid, high 3 era but worked at his craft and learned how to pitch early consistently improving year after year even though no run support. Another pitcher who worked on his craft.

Vogelsong sounds similar with his injuries and issues.

Timmy, was a Rock star an untoucable with great junk and a hard moving fastball. What made him even better was the frontline stars of teams would rest on his days. His production has steadily declined after his first 2 years. He started to really struggle in 2010 for the first time and started working out of a stretch for a period. He basically lost his command of the fastball and could not control it. How he has worked is trainging with in and out burgers or starving himself to the point of emaciated looks. There has not been a consistent traing regiment for Timmy it is ever changing from stopping long toss in 2010 to restarting it at the request of his dad.

Different work ethics from those that are blessed with a gift vs those that needed to work to make them better pitchers.

Whether Timmy stays or goes, he needs to learn to control his pitches. He still has incredible movement on his specialty pitches as the no no shows, the question is how hard he works on adapting.

I hope the Giants lose 4 of the frst 6 games in the second half and Timmy perfoms well. This is so that the pretenders become non contenders and look to maximize his value for a trade and re-populate the farm system.

Slide Dog

avwh, remember when the Giants were in St. Louis, their whole team was batting over 300 with RISP … that’s how you win 100 games. Cards have what it takes to win the WS this year SFG-STL-SFG-STL …

Foothills you’re putting a lot of weight on this first series with the DBacks. I think no matter the outcome there, the Giants will be battling the Rockies for third place in the West.

The Padres will sink to their natural position at the bottom and the Dodgers will make a run but not be able to bring down the DBacks.

As for moves by the Giants … a 4/5 starter under their control for next year.

Regardless of how the Giants do coming out of the break and how much “objective” sense it might make, I would be stunned if the Giants moved Timmy now. In fact, if I were in Vegas, I’d bet money against it.

Ann Killion nailed it. If Buster Posey is the face and the brains of this amazing era of Giants baseball that brought us two parades, Tim Lincecum is its heart. Dumping him for nameless prospects at the trade deadline and abruptly ending his glorious run as a Giant would be so demoralizing to the fan base and to the team that I just can’t imagine it really happening.

So sorry to those of you who want to see a complete tear-down, and apologies to Sonia (OK, not really)–but IMO, Timmy is staying.

channelclemente

So carmot, what do you want, someone to respect you in the morning. My point was the degree and extent that the teams function was dependent on Pagan/Scutaro was unanticipated as to it’s overall impact.

channelclemente

Lefty,

you might be right about the heart metaphor, at least until a suitable donor is found or organ grown.

Keep’n It Real

@Lefty

I agree with you about Timmy being the heart, but if someone (say Detroit) provided 2 top-tier prospects for him (if Giants fall further behind)…wouldn’t you pull the trigger?

If he leaves…and my gut tell me he is…then it would be better for the Giants to get 2 top-tier prospects…versus some unknown via his new team’s #1 pick in 2014.

BTW…I know there’s no guarantee he gets 2 top-tier prospects, but I’m just throwing this scenario out there for discussion.

Personally…and it would pull my heart strings…but I would do the deal.

Would you do a similar deal if they wanted Romo and Lopez (not Timmy)? This would cause a hole in the bullpen, but another opportunity to discuss a scenario.

one asks for 2-3 prospects plus a starter back. Where you settle may be uncertain, but you ask for all you think you can get.

The Real Ketchup

KIR,

You wouldn’t be getting that teams first pick. They would get a compensatory pick after round 1. The team that signs him would forfeit their first round pick, unless its a top 10 pick, in which case they would forfeit their next highest pick.

The Real Ketchup

channelclemente says:
July 17th, 2013 at 9:30 am
He’s Back.
———–
I never left

NumbNutty Sam the KetchUp Man

CC, I’ll always be here. This is my domain. This is my site. To quote Neil my lover, I am I am. I am the intellectual version of Iamtheidiot and sargiemento. I am I am a solitary man.

Keep’n It Real

@The Real Ketchup

Thanks…which makes trading him for top-tier prospects even more logical.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Interesting series on ‘trade value’ running on Fangraphs now. In particular the evaluation of Cardinal rookie pitcher Shelby Miller is interesting, because of the potential role Molina plays in his valuation, and uncertainty about that valuation.

“That he’s this low essentially reflects the risks associated with pitchers in general, and some lingering question about whether he’d be able to succeed at the same level without Yadier Molina. While no one that I’ve talked to has come right out and said that they devalue pitchers after they leave St. Louis, I have had several friends in the game mention that they think a lot of the STL pitchers benefit tremendously from Molina’s work. If a team really believes that Molina is a driving force behind that pitching staff’s success, they might be somewhat less willing to pay a premium to experiment with how well that pitcher would do throwing to another catcher.”

Wouldn’t that be something if the Giants did view Lincecum as the heart and tried to keep him, but didn’t make the qualifying offer and then lost him to free agency? Wouldn’t that be something if the Giants lost him and got nothing for him? It might remind you of Beltran – who btw looked pretty good in right field for the NL All-Stars.

Beltran must certainly be like a cancer in remission. Lying in wait, ready to strike and take down the powerful Cardinals. Many say he’ll never win a World Series because he’s not a team player. Surely they must be right and we can safely dismiss the Cardinals. Thankfully, the Giants have Hunter Pence making a little bit more $ and an extra World Series trophy. Funny how it all works out.

Back to Lincecum. They’ll probably ‘get it done’ and sign him to a 4/50-60 million dollar deal and in the end he’d probably wind up pitching just as well as the next guy who would sign for that much; whether it’s Garza or Johnson or whoever.

So I assume we just trust the process. Afterall, we’re in good hands with Bob Myers at the helm.

Go Giants !

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Foothills,

sometimes, I swear, your teacher told you to consult Rousseau for insight and wisdom and you mistakenly heard Clouseau.

Interesting and fitting that the last player ever to wear #42 is a class act like Rivera. One has to wonder that had the last person to wear #42 had been one of the roid cheaters if the league would have said, “change your number, 42 is retired.”

You did know that there was nothing the Giants could do to “get nothing” from Beltran leaving, right? His contract with the Mets (which the Giants inherited) prevented them from making any qualifying offer.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

KIR,

there you go again with the details. You are the dog that bites, sir. (see video reference)

http://3renfrews@comcast.net robin

Okay, this is going to sound stupid but…………..

Do not pitch Zito on the road. He is 0-8 with an ERA in the 8.00 area.

Do not let Panda eat on the road. He needs to lose 60 pounds easy.

Do not let Belt play first base anymore. I am tired of his sorry awkward swing.

Do not let Scutaro take every single first pitch. Once in awhile it is worth swinging at.

Do not keep bring up AAAA players who cannot compete at the Big League level. Please find a outfielder who can makes us forget that Chili Davis is the last one you drafted groomed and blossomed at the Big Show.

Mooooooooooose

Scutaro is batting .368 this season when he swings at the first pitch.

Hitting coaches are glorified shrinks. McGwire left St. Louis and Aldrete was assistant hitting coach until John Mabry and Bengie took over. Carney Lansford was before Bam Bam and nobody adapted to his patience is a virtue mantra. McGwire’s LA hitters couldn’t hit early on – then they caught fire. Interim hitting coaches sometimes have success because they are interim and players wanted the “last guy” gone.

Ted Williams once tried teaching hitting to hitters less talented than his era and he became isolated and disgusted. His main hitting disciple Mike Epstein has made a GiNormous amount of money with hitting DVD’s but never had actual on the field success with any ML hitters.

Any Sport Icon is not the best Coach or instructor. Bill Russell was disenchanted when coaching the Seattle SuperSonics. Larry Bird did really well for three years as HC of the Pacers but also gave himself a three year imposed window (not wanting to burnout). Magic Johnson was persuaded by Dr. Buss to take over the Lakers and last 16 games @ 5-11.

By the time the great HOF Frank Robinson got to the Giants he found flaws in players almost daily because what was special and normal to Frank was not to me found in the more modern day player. He was still hip in 1975 thru 77 with the Tribe but the O’s and Expo’s/Nats were loaded with the newer contracted version of Me and I guys.

Meanwhile Bam Bam will survive due to the relationships Sabean has fostered since he and Lefebvre played HS and College together and since Sabes was HC of U of Tampa/DII which went to their version of NCAA Regionals. Once he got to NYY he had a major hand in drafting and/or signing Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte and JT.

Hitters go into contagious up streaks and contagious down streaks. Cage work, before game BP and stuff does really nothing for actual game action. One can take 1000 pitches off the million dollar curve ball machine – it still doesn’t prepare an in game at bat off of Matt Harvey or Strasburg.

There is as much luck as there is skill with ML hitters. Many of us here bemoan the weak outs made on 0 and 0 counts but there seems to be just as many 0 and 0 base hits these days. Pitchers walk the bases loaded on say 15 pitches and his pitching coach goes to the mound and we say here to take a pitch … but in some circles hitters are taught that after a pitching coach visit to the mound that there is a 98% chance that the P will throw a dead red fastball. When that happens and the hitter unloads its happyville, but when he hits a weak ground ball to the mound we all want to fire the hitting coach and Dfa the player.

Hitters are hitting until they decide to not swing. Not swinging is the only decision a ML hitter really makes + hitters swing at what they THINK the pitcher is going to throw them – aka – most hitters guess UNLESS they have the same visual talent as Bonds, Gwynn in seeing the ball immediately out of the pitchers’ hand.

Foothills Ryan

when the dog bites and the bee stings,

I simply remember my favorite things.

Then, I don’t feel so saaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

(Coltrane improvisational solo – CIS)

—

Of course I knew that KIR

Foothills Ryan

Belt is batting .402 when he plays first base

Karen in AZ

“Old Man???”

Madison….GO TO YOUR ROOM.

Foothills Ryan

Ho-lleeeeeeeeeeeee Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeet the Panda is PHAT !

Thanks Paul, I guess.

He was looking good after Camp Panda in 2011. 6.0 WAR !! And he’s in the negative now

Total disgrace, egg on his face.

Buster Posey is the closest thing to third base depth the Giants have.

ClutchUp

robin says: July 17th, 2013 at 11:56 am
Do not let Panda eat on the road. He needs to lose 60 pounds easy.

*Losing weight during the season is impossible but its easy to be in shape and phat that fat and out of shape. 48′s in the weight room before and after each game/just ask Hunter. 48 will lose weight during the off season.

Do not let Belt play first base anymore. I am tired of his sorry awkward swing.

*I’m sure Bochy does not agree. They now have BB9 and BP28 as their firstbaseman now that Ron Wotus convinced the teetering Marty Lurie that Hector was/is not taking grounders at first base/nor is Pill gonna take grounders at 2b (last yr) in order to possibly play 2b for SFG’s. Wotus sighed and said: “Marty, think of Pat Burrell playing firstbase” As soon as Pill is called up (Sept) there will be the usual chances and chants to “Play BP6 at firstbase … he can’t do any worse than BB9″.

Robin also mentioned in her post: “Okay, this is going to sound stupid but…”

Foothills Ryan

a good take away from a fangraphs chat for those who are impressed with “clutch” hitting:

Dave Cameron: Clutch does exist; it’s players who can repeatedly perform better in clutch situations that don’t exist. Easiest way to explain it is this: everyone in MLB has already been selected for having the intestinal fortitude necessary to succeed under pressure. All the non-clutch players got weeded out long ago.

Cameron has been chewing on that ‘clutch’ question since Bill James spanked him on it last year on ESPN’s baseball stats show. Those successive shows with James were easily the best thing ESPN has done on quantitative baseball in their sorry history.

Lefty

KIR: What I might do and what I think the Giants WILL do are not necessarily the same thing.

As for Lincecum, though, I can’t be objective. He’s my favorite Giant, and I want him to stay forever. I don’t want him traded, I don’t want him to “walk”–I want him to figure it out well enough to be either a solid 2-3 starter or a solid reliever/spot starter, and then I want him to sign a long-term deal with the Giants.

Until a few weeks ago, I thought for sure the die was cast for him as reliever/spot starter. I’m no longer convinced of that, and not just because of the no-hitter. He’s looked different to me his last three starts at least, and his comments confirm that he’s taking a different approach.

He’s 29 and has always been healthy. If he adjusts, I’m with CC–he could be a good-to-very-good starter for another 4-5 years (after which maybe he becomes a reliever). If that’s the case, I can’t imagine who else the Giants would sign that would be better than he is, especially given his history with the team and his popularity.

As for Lopez and Romo, I’d hate to see either go, but sure, I’d listen to offers. Relievers–even really good ones–are easier to replace than front-line starters. And right now Lincecum is the #2 best starter on the Giants.

Wonder if Matt Krook is set on going to college……..definitely emphasized at Jesuit schools!!!

TheNoseKnows

Nobody could seriously think the Giants will trade Timmy at the deadline, could they? Not after the no-hitter. Not when we’re talking about the PR conscious SF Giants. Not when it saved Jonathan Sanchez’ roster spot with his well timed no hitter. Remember when he was practically out the door and then comes that game and he was spared – if only temporarily.

And it should go without saying – but I’m saying it anyway – that JSanchy had no where near the built up equity Timmy has.

But then there’s the off season…and of course Timmy’s comment not without some qualification thrown in that he “wants to stay THIS YEAR (my emphasis). Hmmm. A significant nuance Id say.

Sonia H

Timmy will not be traded THIS year, even I have accepted that.

He has the off season to decide what to do with his career, starter or reliever, national or american league… anything can happen with him.

Laughing at the Matt Garza rumours, everybody is after him, even the Dodgers, Dbacks and Rockies.

P.D. What a boring AllStar game zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

prime,

I would guess so. Probably UCLA would be my guess.

Primetimedonna

CC

Found this:

MIAMI — More details are surfacing regarding Matt Krook’s decision to pitch for the University of Oregon rather than sign with the Marlins.
A source confirmed reports that the left-hander from St. Ignatius High School in San Francisco recently failed his physical. The Marlins chose Krook 35th overall in the 2013 First-Year Player Draft.
The South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported the two sides had agreed to terms, and Krook declined a reduced offer. And the Miami Herald added that Krook is hampered by a left shoulder ailment.
Technically, Krook could change his mind and either accept the reduced offer or continue negotiations. Teams have until July 12 to sign their Draft picks. So, the southpaw has until then to reconsider. However, a source added that there is “no chance” of that happening.
The Marlins continue to negotiate with their first-round pick, third baseman Colin Moran from the University of North Carolina.
Miami is confident that they will agree to terms with Moran, the sixth pick overall in the Draft.
Krook was a competitive-balance Round A selection that the Marlins acquired from the Pirates as part of a trade last July. Miami sent Gaby Sanchez to Pittsburgh for Gorkys Hernandez and the pick.

orangeandblack

The next no-no is going to be by da Bull! When you get to the core of what makes the Giants great, it is a lot of excellent players like the Bull who let their play on the field do most of the talking for them. Looking forward to the second half.

I also noticed that he did a good job of managing his pitch count per inning. The highest was the first inning, at 14. (In fact, my husband and I were fretting a bit then because he’d done such a good job in his previous outing of keeping his pitch count down, despite 11 Ks.)

After that, he had one at 12, but most were 10 or below.

I loved it. In fact, in the absence of baseball tonight, I think I’m going to watch his no-no again on my DVR!

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Lefty,

IF AND ONLY IF, Lincecum can manage and pitch a game like that..he could become one of the greatest hurlers ever to step on the rubber. I’ve watched his ‘game’ twice already and I’ll tell you, his pitches were like packaged explosions on their break. It wasn’t that they broke that much, but when they did they EXPLODED into the break. None of that crapola he has thrown the last few years with that lazy, old man falling off a chair break. He was in another universe, IMO. Slow motion on his 2 seam was just incredible, about 4-7 inches with a late, late explosive break, that is just plain unhittable. I enjoyed the show real time, but if you’ve got digital replay on the DVR, you’re in for a treat. With that kind of edge control, and explosive break, 90 MPH is all he needs on the 4 seam. It was an education for me. Here’s hoping it wasn’t just Jobu stopping by for a beer.

Now I can’t wait to get home to watch a replay of the game on the DVR!!

ClutchUp

176..Anti-Lasorda says: July 17th, 2013 at 12:49 pm 162..Is that 97% good or bad?Out of Timmy’s 148 pitches that means 5 were wrong. How many of those were strike 3 or ball 4? That might be too many on a night with just 32 hitters. That would mean 5/32 of 16% of the results could have been altered.

***Anti-Tommy Lasorda***

Context is always a good thing to consider. Lince*cum threw 148 pitches, but only 95 of those pitches were callable – just 50 balls and 23 called strikes.

Swinging strikes, foul ball/tip, HBP and batted balls in play are not part of the callable count.

Of the two mi$$es, one was strike two to E Cabrera (3rd inning K) and the other was strike two to W Venable (5th inning groundout).

Reviewing the numbers, the called ball previously labeled “within strike zone” was borderline top of the zone and has been excluded, so looking at those two for a 93/95 = 97.9% game.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

BTW Lefty,

I was looking at his split-change velocity profiles, and I think, maybe, he’s decided he can throw the split as both a derivative fastball (ala Mike Scott) as well as a lower velocity changeup with more bite and break. That’s the formula Scott used to no hit the Giants when he was an Astro in 1986. I was at that game, up behind 1B.

Tim Lincecum no-hitter will be re-aired on CSN-BA at 7:30pm on Thursday.

Foothills Ryan

Did Jobu just stop by for a beer with Phillip Humber and Armando Galaraga (slipped out too soon the latter case) ?

Just a couple more quality to Ultra-quality starts before the deadline is all we ask. Lincecum peaking at just the right time. We all know what happens when is elaborate mechanics are out of line. Keep this on the down low to those opposing GM’s

Woj

@TheNoseKnows says:
July 17th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Nobody could seriously think the Giants will trade Timmy at the deadline, could they? Not after the no-hitter. Not when we’re talking about the PR conscious SF Giants. Not when it saved Jonathan Sanchez’ roster spot with his well timed no hitter. Remember when he was practically out the door and then comes that game and he was spared – if only temporarily.

I’ve already seriously thought of trading Lincecum and the plethora of good talent a team would have to fork over to rent him for 3 months.

Giants could always trade Timmy and have an offer on the table to bring him back in 2014 as a Free Agent super bullpen guy or perhaps $4 starter. Think Cliff Lee 2009-2012 – Traded to SEA then to TX and re-signs with his 2009 team the Phillies.

This year is toast, negotiate with Timmy now to bring back in 2014 and trade him for several good prospects the playoff-less 2013 Giants need.

Woj

And while your negotiating with Timmy do the same with Pence and trade him too. Trade the too speciality and high $$ Laffeldt and Lopez too. When a team is ~ 20 games under .500 in the past 50 off games, you are out of serious contention for advancing deep in playoffs. This teams flaws are well known, time to address them quickly via trades.

No need to negotiate with Laffeldt – don’t want him back in 2014.
Lopez is too high $$ and too ineffective agaisnt right handed hitters to bring back in 2014. If some AL team wants fattie Panda as it’s rent a DH, bring in those offers too.

ClutchUp

CC: I noticed when Allen Ashby went to the mound … to talk to Mike Scott — not long after that in baseball 1989 — catchers and pitchers started covering their mouths thanks to what Will the Thrill “read” what Maddox said to Skipper Don Zimmer and his catcher = Cubs vs. SF

Around 1:21:34-35 or so as Zimm gets to the mound with Infielders all about Maddox utters: “Fast Ball” and the video says it all.

I know Candy Maldonado ticked us all off with those bad sliding catch attempts but he was the first one over the top on this 4 on 1 pile with Ozzie Cheap Shot @ Will Clark – Smith.

It’s really TOO bad that several Cardinals kept Bob Brenly (and Chris Speier) away from Smith as that would have been the end of his baseball career. CS35 was stalking Ozzie and Bob Brenly wanted to break him in half Of course Kevin Mitchell was also near-by. Heh Heh Heh Freaking Cardinals were purged in the torrential rain in the CSeries in 2012. Haha and Mitch made his bare hand catch in LF against the Suckered-Smith/89!

Well, CU…if that would have been the end of the Oz’ career, he would have taken CS and BB down with him, no? Except CS and BB would have lived to see another day.

H-Boston

channelclemente says:

July 17th, 2013 at 2:35 pm 175..Lefty,

IF AND ONLY IF, Lincecum can manage and pitch a game like that..he could become one of the greatest hurlers ever to step on the rubber. I’ve watched his ‘game’ twice already and I’ll tell you, his pitches were like packaged explosions on their break. It wasn’t that they broke that much, but when they did they EXPLODED into the break. None of that crapola he has thrown the last few years with that lazy, old man falling off a chair break. He was in another universe, IMO. Slow motion on his 2 seam was just incredible, about 4-7 inches with a late, late explosive break, that is just plain unhittable. I enjoyed the show real time, but if you’ve got digital replay on the DVR, you’re in for a treat. With that kind of edge control, and explosive break, 90 MPH is all he needs on the 4 seam. It was an education for me. Here’s hoping it wasn’t just Jobu stopping by for a beer.

With your technical video capability you’d
give Roone Arledge a run for his money

H-Boston

robin says:

July 17th, 2013 at 11:56 am 148..Okay, this is going to sound stupid but…………..

Do not pitch Zito on the road. He is 0-8 with an ERA in the 8.00 area.

Do not let Panda eat on the road. He needs to lose 60 pounds easy.

Do not let Belt play first base anymore. I am tired of his sorry awkward swing.

Do not let Scutaro take every single first pitch. Once in awhile it is worth swinging at.

Do not keep bring up AAAA players who cannot compete at the Big League level. Please find a outfielder who can makes us forget that Chili Davis is the last one you drafted groomed and blossomed at the Big Show.
Hey Robin,

If that’s you’re only criticism, what about the swings of Dick Mcaulif, Dick Allen, Hunter Pence. Belt isn’t the only one with a bad swing it’s far
from ackward. And what does playing first in and of itself have to with an awkward swing. Now if your saying his swing doesn’t yield results that’s another situation. It would great if he could have a swing like Will Clark, but others on this sight have opined why he can’t. The hitting coaches, have worked with him to modify it. He’ll get there, if not with the Giants elsewhere.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

H-,

I like pitching, what can I say, no excuses.

Clutch,

I used to joke that Scott lsaved Clark for last to let Clark savor the consequences of that HR he chicken walked on in the Dome. What goes around comes around. Scott had a subtle sense of evening the books.

Foothills Ryan

H-Boston says:
July 17th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

Talk out of Boston:

Will Middlebrooks & John Lester

For

Cliff Lee

…

Why would Boston trade one piece of rotation for another? And why would Philly want Lestah?

That would be rah-tahded.

Mooooooooooose

Lefty says:
July 17th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
CC: Thanks for the cool links on Lincecum’s no-hitter. Holy cow, 47 splitters?
I also noticed that he did a good job of managing his pitch count per inning. The highest was the first inning, at 14. (In fact, my husband and I were fretting a bit then because he’d done such a good job in his previous outing of keeping his pitch count down, despite 11 Ks.)
After that, he had one at 12, but most were 10 or below.
- - – - – - – - – - – ————————————————————————— – - – - – - -
Lefty, I haven’t looked at that website, but I think those numbers may have been only his strikes as he threw 148 pitches in 9 innings which is over 16 per inning.

ClutchUp

Tainted or not, HR record belongs to BB25

When McGwire did his 70+HR item he had the Maris family in attendance. No amount of Chris Davis handringing or Bud Selig, Hank Aaron on Babe Ruth worry worts won’t change the fact that the HR record is 73. Hit 74 Chris and you’ll shed your Brady Anderson ghost.

156..Anti-Lasorda says: July 17th, 2013 at 12:49 pm 162..Is that 97% good or bad?Out of Timmy’s 148 pitches that means 5 were wrong. How many of those were strike 3 or ball 4? That might be too many on a night with just 32 hitters. That would mean 5/32 of 16% of the results could have been altered.

***Anti-Tommy Lasorda***

Context is always a good thing to consider. Timmy threw 148 pitches, but only 95 of those pitches were callable – just 50 balls and 23 called strikes.

Swinging strikes, foul ball/tip, HBP and batted balls in play are not part of the callable count.

Of the two misses, one was strike two to E Cabrera (3rd inning K) and the other was strike two to W Venable (5th inning groundout).

Reviewing the numbers, the called ball previously labeled “within strike zone” was border-line top of the zone and has been excluded, so looking at those two for a 93/95 = 97.9% game.

TheNoseKnows

Woj…you and a whole host of others may have alternate plans for Timmy. But the question is/was….do you think the Giants will trade him at the deadline. And to that, I can’t fathom they would under current circumstances. Unless they want to lose half their fan base. If he leaves via free agency, that looks better as the Giants could easily couch it as his choice. Lose him in the offseason vs let him go via free agency? Those are 2 totally different dynamics.

Plus, if he stays to the rest of the season, we’ll have an offseason with something to talk about.

ClutchUp

Umpire Mark Wegner presided Saturday evening marking the second no-hitter of the 2013 MLB season. Wegner was joined by Laz Diaz (1B), Tim Timmons (2B) and crew chief Mike Winters (3B). This is Lincecum’s first career no-hitter, a career-high 148-pitch performance.

Saturday’s was Wegner’s first plate no-hitter and the first MLB no-hitter since July 3, 2013 (Ed Hickox/Homer Bailey). Winters is the only other member of this crew to have called a no-hitter (8/17/1992; Kevin Gross).

Wegner received 73 callable pitches from Lincecum, a total of 50 balls and 23 called strikes; the look:

When Timmy signed his 2012 two year contract we of course know it included a series of bonuses for winning another Cy Young and “other awards”.

– Just Wondering if Larry Baer and others thought for a moment and considered if 55′s mechanics would ever be efficient enough to throw a No hitter in 2012 or 2013 and they may have come to the conclusion: “Nah”.

But maybe just maybe 55′s agent did his due diligence and got the SF FO to throw in a “No Hitter”. Heh Heh

I don’t know that C. Davis’s HRs are tainted , but BB history , reason , and rationality say he’s dirtier than a , ” Pig in Slop .”

Don’t believe your eyes .

Gumby Shoulders

Simple solution for the Giants: Trade him to an NL West team.

Giants would receive value that is more immediate (assuming they trade for a AA or AAA player) vs. what they’d get with a sandwich pick after losing him to FA.

Giants also get a couple of real sellouts (as opposed to the fake ones that they announce) when Timmy’s new team visits AT&T and he’s schedule to pitch.

AND there’s a 70/30 chance they’ll face Bad Timmy who will yield 5 runs over 6 innings and 120 pitches.

Win. Win. Win.

Sam

Gumby Shoulders – BB9 Lovers Suck – GSDubs

I’m right there with you. He does nothing during important times in a game. All his so called extra base hits are during garbage time. For instance he probably went to a field in Texas during this time off and hit 6 home runs during the ‘game’ when nothing matters.

He does nothing during important times in a game. All his so called extra base hits are during garbage time.
————————
Sam and all his multiple personalities are wrong about this one. No one on the Giants has more high-leverage clutch hits than Belt does (defined as late in the game and either tied/won/put the the team ahead). I posted the list (and the link to the stats) yesterday, but here’s the short version:

Of the top 25 most clutch hits of 2013, Belt has 8 (almost one-third all by himself). Posey has 5. Blanco has 4. Torres has 2. No one else has more than one.

So not only is the much-maligned Belt a clutch hitter, but the even more maligned LF platoon of Blanco/Torres has 6 combined–almost 25% of the total. The “heart of the order” (Posey-Sandoval-Pence) has seven combined (five by Posey alone)–one fewer than Belt and one more than Blanco/Torres.

Lefty

Moooose, you’re right about the Lincecum pitch count stats–I misread the chart. Sorry.

Gumby Shoulders

@Sam: “Gumby Shoulders – BB9 Lovers Suck – GSDubs”

No. I am me. Not them.

“him” in my post refers to Timmy. Nothing to do with Belt.

Sam

Lefty,

That post was from fake Sam. I have my own troll(s)

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Belt leaves the impression of not being ‘clutch’ because he hits in the 6 hole, and Pence’s bat has been AWOL, Posey has a high OBP, and leadoff hitting has been absent. He gets far more opportunities, IMO, than a player in his position should get. So the higher number of successes, and subjective impression he’s not delivering both are a function of his good luck (?) at the number of opportunities and the polarization of the fans who follow him.

Lefty

CC: I’ve always thought Pence was the ideal six-hitter. Unfortunately, they don’t have a five-hitter. Belt’s not ready (if he ever will be), and there’s no one else.

Remember that ONE game against the Nats last year when they had everyone? They had traded for Pence and Scutaro while Pablo was on the DL. When he finally came back, it was:

Pagan
Scutaro
Melky
Buster
Pablo
Pence
Belt
Crawford
Bumgarner

The Giants won that game 8-2. It was a beautiful thing. The next day, Melky was suspended.

if Pence’s ‘top hand’ fix is real, he may just explode in the 2nd half. He had that issue at the Astros before he went to the Phillies, fixed it and hit 40 points higher the second and just punished the baseball.

I’d agree with you about Pence, but Belt has to become a OBP and contact guy to make that work.

Kyle Perizi

Forgot about the R-Sox and White Sox .

Lefty

CC: I hope so about Pence, for his sake and the team’s.

Woj: Affeldt signed a three-year deal, so not only is he back for 2014 but also for 2015. I’d think he’d be extremely hard to trade right now given his pricey contract and how, well, BAD he’s been this season. They bought high on him after the World Series and he’d be really hard to sell low right now because of the price tag.

Lefty

I’m watching Kyle Crick right now on MiLB.TV. Two innings, no runs, 3 Ks, 1 BB, no hits. Looks good. His catcher is Hector Sanchez!

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

Lefty,

bring him slow, no rush, and develop a quality product. What we need to do is turn the page, and move to the next level. It’s a musical night.

CC: Absolutely, no rush. Only 20 years old. Crick’s numbers in low A/A are more similar to Wheeler’s than to Bumgarner’s or Cain’s, and Wheeler just made the majors at age 23. I hope Crick comes along faster than that, but he’s not going to make an age-20 debut like Cain and Bum did.

I think pitchers like Blach (college player) and Escobar (started pro career very young and already on the 40-man) may make it to the bigs before Crick does.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

IMO I really feel that BB9 will not be back next year unless he has a breakout 2nd half. I hope he does well, not a fan of his but if he does well it will help the club.

prima facie

23? I’ve got socks older than him.

ClutchUp

Cory Monteith

Heroin & Booze

No surprises there….based on his former admissions.

Lefty

Crick is through the fourth–no hits, 2 walks, 5 Ks. The CF just made a Blanco-esque catch to preserve the no-hitter.

Crick is hitting 97 with his fastball and looks like he’s got a naaasty curve–lots of swing-throughs.

I’m doing a three-day workshop at UCSC in August and was just perusing the SJ Giants schedule…may have to check out a game one night. Looks like fun.

Lefty

Column on Belt from the Bay Area Sports Guy site (written by Wendy Thurm):

Make ya a deal. Take somebody you loved growing up that you loved as a hitter and go to Baseball Reference and see what the guy you liked did his first several years.

The Oracle

Since its there’s never a bad time to argue about Brandon Belt…starting with 2006, Belt’s 2 seasons as the Giants’ semi-regular to regular first baseman have been better than anyone else’s that the team has played there, with the exception of Huff’s great 2010. From 1997-2005, J.T. Snow was the first baseman. In five of those nine years, Snow had better seasons than what Belt has done, so far. In the other four seasons, Belt’s performance has been better. Look it up. I also point out that Snow played for the Giants during his athletic and baseball prime, while Belt has yet to reach his prime. Snow also played during the peak of the steroid era.

My point is that the level of Belt criticism is completely out of whack with reality. Why is this? I think one reason is unrealistic expectations. Giants fans saw his tremendous numbers during his one minor league season, after having seen Posey and Sandoval have immediate success, and expected the same. Not everyone starts out like those two.

I think the other big reason is appearances. People look at Belt’s famed body language and draw their own conclusions about what he’s thinking. It’s totally subjective. Objectively, Belt has shown the mental toughness to get through the rough spots and gradually improve. Perception isn’t reality in Belt’s case. You even have people posting about how Belt never gets a hit when it matters, despite the fact, as Lefty pointed out, he has actually come up with more big hits than anyone else. #FreeBelt.

Lefty

Baldy: On Clutch’s “challenge,” no fair picking Buster Posey!

ClutchUp

Or Will Clark!

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Clutch: My favorite hitter growing up was Buster Posey, remember i did not mentally mature until I turned 46 yrs old which was 3 years ago. SORRY ! But i’m doing well for myself and I’ve always been able to hold down a very good job.

Lefty

Oracle, to your point, I liked one of the comments below the BASG/Thurm piece. I’m paraphrasing:

The Giants lose 5-0. Zito was throwing batting practice, Scutaro made a critical error, Pence grounded into two DPs, and Belt struck out. The postgame calls on KNBR:

1) OMG, Belt struck out. He’s terrible!
2) OMG, Pablo is SO FAT!

Lefty

Baldy: What’s funny is the Giants’ first-round pick, Christian Arroyo, DID say his “favorite hitter growing up was Buster Posey”! Christian is 18 and from Florida, so he watched Buster during his college years at FSU. But it IS pretty funny to hear a professional baseball player say his boyhood idol was 26-year-old Buster!

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

The wife and I went to Santa Cruz last friday and had a wonderful time, the one thing that i’d like to say is ” WOW” lots of bathing suits. Stay away from SC Pablo and you’ll be fine.

408svl

i have an intuition that BOCHY told SABEAN these are what needed:

1) a lead off guy or someobody who has RBI capabilities.
2) a MIDDLE RELIEF
3) trade someone from the 25 man rooster to get what he asked for.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

LEFTY: Buster is something special as a person and as a ball player. Sometimes I wonder why my daughters can’t bring home a Buster Posey type of guy instead of some of the strange looking guys I’ve seen them date.

Lefty

Looks like the Giants luck out against the Snakes–no Patrick Corbin. Interesting how Bochy DID use Corbin and DIDN’T use Bumgarner in the ASG. Heh, heh, heh.

They get Kennedy, Miley, and Delgado. Kennedy’s having a bad year, Miley’s having an OK year but not as good as last year, and Delgado has a SSS.

Also, it’s nice that Timmy needs to “rest from his no-hitter.” No batting practice for you, Goldy.

Lefty

Baldy: LOL. I have two daughters, 19 and 24. The youngest lives at home. Current boyfriend is a nice enough young man (musician, Giants fan, college student, killer Hearts player) but has a psycho mom. It would be nice if she met someone with the earning potential of Buster Posey!

(Oh, yes, and the character and work ethic, too, of course.)

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Lefty: I told you a few weeks back that I’m gonna hang in there with Belt at least until the end of the season. I bet you forgot i told you that didn’t you? I swear I’d like to eat my words about Belt.

DomnVinsDad

ESPY’s – Team Hoyt. Wow. If you haven’t heard or aren’t watching. I dare you not to well up with tears. Incredibly unbelievable.

The Oracle

Lefty…thanks for posting the link to the Wendy Thurm piece. That pretty much says it all, although facts are no counterpoint to irrational opinion. Clearly, even as he continues to learn the game, he is already comfortably above average and likely to get much better.

Lefty

Crick is out after 5 IP and 80 pitches. 0 runs, 0 hits, 5 BB, 6 Ks. ERA for the season is 1.04 and he has 51 Ks (35 IP).

Too many walks, though. Another similarity to Wheeler.

DomnVinsDad

@ Clutch @ 6:26

Blasphemy, but here you go:

Ken Griffey Jr. Unfortunately, all the tell-tale injury signs, huge body composition change, etc. But no one will bring him up….

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Lefty: Your girls will do just fine, they might not make all of the correct decisions in life right now but give it time they’ll do you proud. Growing up here in fairfield i use to run with the wrong crowd in my 20′s but dad stayed on me and kept me in line until the light finally came on in my head. Without dad I’d probably be somewhere making license plates right about now.

Lefty

Baldy: Belt’s doing OK except he needs to cut down the Ks. They’ve been creeping back up the last couple weeks.

I noticed earlier in the season he was being pretty aggressive and swinging earlier in the count, often grounding out or flying out. So his K rate was better but his OBP was down and he wasn’t helping the team. Lately he’s working counts deeper and sometimes that pays off with a walk or his two-strike homer on Saturday–but sometimes it also means he strikes out looking.

————————————-
Uh-oh. Hector just blocked a pitch and threw out a runner at third…but now he’s grabbing his side. Don’t know if he got an oblique or if the ball hit him there.

Vegas Giants Fan

Lefty

Thanks for doing the research on Belt’s clutch hitting. It really bugs me when posters make unsubstantiated claims about players and fail to back their claims with facts.

Some of you may have read a couple of my posts about how I am SHOCKED after comparing Belt to other MLB first basemen. He clearly is better than MY PERCEPTION was.

As I’ve said previously:
” I promise to back off my pressure & criticism of “If Belt played any other position other than 1B, I wouldn’t have a problem. But he plays the #1 power position and his stats just don’t cut it.”

Well, actually… (I’ve shocked myself)… ACTUALLY they do.”
——-

I’ve linked and asked people here to check for themselves on thebaseballcube.com player comparison tool. I have a feeling that maybe only one or two people actually *might* have done so.

Previously, I was guilty of basing part of my judgement on perception. Maybe some others will learn, as I did… It is true, (that although we might love to have a 40+ HR 1B, uhh, like C.J. Cron might be. lol), Belt is clearly not a top issue with this current team.

I ask you to make your own judgements on Brandon Belt based ON stats & facts.

Thanks for reading. Cheers. Dream big. Dream GIANT.

ClutchUp

Bad bad bad Real KetchUp

Sam, its not like you to not play fair. We know about those juicers. See question @ 626pm. Very disapointed in you.

The Real KetchUp

I wrote book reports shorter than Carmot’s last post

The Real KetchUp

@ClutchUp: Those names were in Response to this question:

ClutchUp says:
July 17th, 2013 at 8:02 pm
BALDSLICK

You have it bad. Young, team control and developing.

Make ya a deal. Take somebody you loved growing up that you loved as a hitter and go to Baseball Reference and see what the guy you liked did his first several years.

ClutchUp

Whay happened to the Upper case U in KetchUp?

Sam

So the data proves that Belt is the 4th-best hitter on a terrible-hitting team? That’s super!

And when compared to other first basemen around the league, he has firmly entrenched himself in the middle of the pack? That’s great!

Call Cooperstown and inform them to start designing the Brandon Belt wing!

Kendry Flores is one to watch. Having a great year at Augusta. Still only 21.

Galindo made the World Futures team. A real speedster who can get on base.

Keep trucking Big Mac.

Signs of life from Panik and Duvall are good signs.

Foothills Ryan

Some earlier comments about clutch hitting. Remember, your intuition is correct on this one. It’s a skill that doesn’t exist, so it does no good to rank or compare players based on how many clutch hits they’ve accumulated in a season. Clutch hits are exciting, but in the end, just anecdotal.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Sam says:
July 17th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

“So the data proves that Belt is the 4th-best hitter on a terrible-hitting team? That’s super!

And when compared to other first basemen around the league, he has firmly entrenched himself in the middle of the pack? That’s great!

Call Cooperstown and inform them to start designing the Brandon Belt wing!”

Time to wrap him up with that eight-year, $200 million extension! Get it done, Sabean!

Mo P

Why is there so much abt belt and nothing about starting pitching? It’s the reason why they are in the bottom third of baseball teams this year. It all starts and ends with that. In 2010 the team finished #2 in the majors in pitching.

I think pagans absence is also going to hurt. While the giants ponder being buyers vs sellers, the dodgers are all in, and also in the garza talks.

Buster olney mentioned that cliff lee probably won’t get dealt since phillies tv deal is up and they’ll need some big names.

pacman68

I’m so bored!!

Foothills Ryan

Good morning. This list has been inspired by the hard work of Vegas Giants Fan and the hard work of the actual prospects.

In my view, these are the Giants top 10 prospects. This is based largely on preseason rankings and their performance over the first half of the season. Positional scarcity is a large factor. Skill scarcity factors in as well.

#2 Andrew Susac – A catcher that can hit has considerable value. His patience at the plate is a virtue: 13.9 BB%. His numbers are up across the board after jump to AA. RC+ = 136.

#3 Mac Williamson – The Giants organizational scarcity of outfielders that can hit with power is the biggest factor here. He has the tools and can take a walk. Just needs to cut back on strikeouts.

#4 Edwin Escobar – Great numbers as 21 year old in Cal League. Earned his call up to AA as a low 90′s throwing lefty with strike out stuff (>11Ks/9) and good command (BB/9 around 2).

#5 Clayton Blackburn – He’s just 20 and punching out over 10/9 IP. Not a pure stuff pitcher, but the reports on the make up, command and movement are very good. He figures to rise quickly through system.

… 6-10 to come later.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

What happened to the slugging 1b in MLB? They’ve all disappeared. Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Cecil Fielder, Will Clark, Frank Howard, Harmon Killebrew , Frank Thomas i could go on and on.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Time to shave and shower and then off to work, see yall later today.

Lefty

Well, if we’re going to have grammar cops here, I can’t resist weighing in on two points:

1) Paul in p.v. used the hyphen correctly in “grammar-challenged nabobs.” The rule is if you combine words before a noun to create an adjective phrase, you hyphenate that combination to avoid confusion. See rule #1 on the list here: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/576/01/.

2) While scolding Paul for his (correct) use of a hyphen, TRKU said this: “If you want to clown others grammar…”

“Others” in this construction is a possessive and requires an apostrophe: “If you want to clown others’ grammar…”

Now, as for spelling–not even going there.

Lefty

BALDHEADSLICK1 says:
July 18th, 2013 at 7:27 am

What happened to the slugging 1b in MLB? They’ve all disappeared. Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Cecil Fielder, Will Clark, Frank Howard, Harmon Killebrew , Frank Thomas i could go on and on.
——————————–
Interesting you asked. Someone published an article on this very thing just yesterday:

Lincecum’s new team would get a pitcher with experience in a division race and in the postseason, one who showed in 2012 how effective he can be in short bursts. Lincecum would have the opportunity to showcase his abilities out of the ‘pen, in advance of free agency.

Slide Dog

… some GREAT commentary on the blessyouboys.com link above, including some banter on Belt and the potential for the Giants to trade Posey for Albert Pujols. Goes to show that the GE blog has no monopoly on silliness.

http://gravatar.com 2holehitting

@ lefty

Why is it that every attack on Belt is based on ignoring and/or outright misrepresenting objective evidence?

Examples:
2holehitting (many times in the past two years): All of Belt’s HRs have come in hitters’ parks and/or against AAA pitchers in September.

=============================

Hmmm praphrasing what I said for the general intent of the exposure.

Please be clear I supplied facts for the homers at the end of 2011,

I had stated he hit them against the dredges of the league AAA pitchers called up at the end of the season, he hit 4 of those against Colorado 3 in Co against the cellar dwellers AAA call ups with limited league experience(7 games or less) and in Houston and well known band box with horrid pitching and 2 in 1 game against Florida a 5-9 pitcher with a 5.6 ERA. Not your league average 4.0 ERA pitchers of the leagues.

How did he do last year 7 homers in 472 AB. I believe the arugment bore out. He clearly must not have been batting against the dredges of the league as much as I had called those teams he padded his stats on.

My comment the other day was who he hit it off off in SD a 5.7 ERA journeyman pitcher and my comment was that it jsut cleared the fence by maybe 10 feet while broadcasters were claiming how it was crushed well beyond the fence. 2 rows if they had rows.

But more to the point.

Belt has hit 4 HR’s against pitchers with sub 4 ERA this year.That is good, 2 of those were in band boxes CIN and Wash where routing flyballs are home runs.

He has hit 6 against 4.6 or above ERA or above.

Here is a list of pitchers and ERA he has hit off of. you can go back and look at the 2011 stats

This year 10 homers. Good for him, His show me numbers is when he is a 270 20+ homer guy at a power position and not just 1 year.

But my comments are ore against the pumpers of Belt like yourself.

Last year arguing against the immense power you guys all were projecting on him was justified given the 2011 season end. I gave stats with facts the minimized the accomplishments you were looking at.

I have stated, Belt to date is Travis Ishikawa a 260-270 hitter with 15 HR power.

That as someone pointed out in this thread is JT like numbers who averd mid 260′s and 12 HR’s a year.

I had compared those numbers to JT as beeing week long ago. To much love for a light hitting first baseman.

Lefty

Slide Dog: The Tigers are desperate for bullpen help and reportedly have also inquired about Lopez and Romo. I’m sure they WOULD love to get Lincecum–his remaining salary wouldn’t be a problem for their elderly moneybags owner who wants a title before he passes.

Posey for Pujols? Hahahahahaha.

Polioptila Veintiocho

From MLBTR: In case there was any doubt, the GM for the last-place Padres made clear he’s not in the market for rental players. “I think the one thing our recent play has done is it doesn’t make sense for us to go for a rental,” Josh Byrnes told Jeff Sanders of the San Diego Union-Tribune. Byrnes added, “To say that we make a trade to bring in somebody who is on our team now and helping us but we also have beyond this year, we’re certainly knocking on those doors.”

So when will Sabean and Bochy figure out that they’re in the same convent with the Padres?

Lefty

Slide Dog: Those trade scenarios on the comments were hilarious! I thought Polioptila must be trolling their site, too.

Posey for Pujols because Posey’s a bad defensive catcher and worse at first base…but he could be a very good DH. The Angels and the Giants could “swap two badly thought out contracts.”

One commenter referred to Posey as the Giants’ “young, inexpensive MVP…” INEXPENSIVE?

Another trade: Lincecum, Crawford, and Posey for Porcello, Avila, and Prince. (The Tigers may need a SS if Peralta goes down in the Biogenesis mess.)

Thanks for the great laugh!

Keep’n It Real

Last night from majorleaguetraderumors:

Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle spoke with a rival front office executive who said that the Giants” best trade bait is their pitching in the low minors along with Double-A catcher Andrew Susac in return for big-league talent, if they’re buying at the deadline. San Fran is 43-51, 6.5 games back of the first place D’Backs.

ClutchUp

Baldy now @ work, Lefty and others…

Many of the games players of yesteryear who were only thumpers could not do multiple things now needed in todays game. Granted their first yrs they were multi-skilled but Harmon, Frank Thomas and others had their LONG HR’s to be their calling card.

Mantle was country strong and quick like Bo. Stretch was fast first to third.

Guess built like Aaron, Clemente, Mays and dozens others were sinewy.

Bat speed came from wrists and torque. Many Many Many parks in the AL bredd HR hitters and the newer NL parks are HR friendly.

Also strike outs and HR’s go together:

Dave Kingman
Rob Deer
Bobby Bonds
(One of the ) Sweeny’s

ClutchUp

*guys=guess*

Reaper

Keith Law just rated Kyle Crick at #37 (up from #76 last season) in his mid-season top MLB 50 prospects list. He says:

Crick has flown past teammate Clayton Blackburn this year; Blackburn has better command and control, but Crick has huge stuff, sitting mid-90s and touching 98 with a plus breaking ball but, as you saw in the Futures Game, less than perfect command. He missed two months this year with an oblique strain, punching out 32 and walking 10 across four starts since his return.

Let’s go baby!

3rdNking

BOSS BAER AND SABES BETTER RESIGN TIMMY

or the giants are in big trouble….i will wreck them for not….

EITHER WE RESIGN TIMMY AND GET ONE MORE TITLE RUN..

or you let him go and suffer the wrath….

3rdNking

u want to see and Oakland A’s ressurection?

let timmy go, dumbasses

3rdNking

boss baer and sabes better get their resumes out…

if they let timmy go

3rdNking

u mean to tell me the Giants have 20 plus million a year for Zeets for a decade..

but nothing for the pitcher (55) who brought us EVERYThING

disloyal mofos, no place for any of u in my house…

Bay Area Loyalty 4 Life, I got you Timmy

3rdNking

best pitcher any of u ever saw

and u want to toss him out..

HES STILL #1 ON THIS STAFF, K/9, no scrub

retards gonna just let him go

Reaper

3rdNking,

Not saying we should trade Timmy, but the Zito contract should be an example of why you DON’T pay someone for something they’ve done in the past (“but nothing for the pitcher (55) who brought us Everything”).

If they keep Lincecum, it should be because they think he can help them win in the future in the order of whatever $$$ he receives.

3rdNking

u want to c an Oakland A’s ressurection like no other?

let timmy go, i dare ya…

just look at radnich and kreugers ratings 6 months from now..ride on me

Polioptila Veintiocho

“Not saying we should trade Timmy, but the Zito contract should be an example of why you DON’T pay someone for something they’ve done in the past (“but nothing for the pitcher (55) who brought us Everything”).

If they keep Lincecum, it should be because they think he can help them win in the future in the order of whatever $$$ he receives.”

Lincescum is utterly replaceable, but Zito is the heart and soul of the Gnats.

Reaper

Should have known better than to post at this point in the thread.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Sabean misses out again: in need of a starting first baseman, he lets the White Sox sign Trashikawa.

3rdNking

its not the giants that are losers

its the fans like marty and larry kreuger that want to throw OUR GIFT, 55
out the door…

2 titles in 3 years, 2 cys, a no hitter….memories for lifetimes of fans

It’s funny (funny peculiar, not funny ha ha) that this blog has gotten much faster to read. There are so many trolls and just plain idiots that skipping past them makes the comments so much faster to peruse. I still look forward to some of the regular, Olde Tyme, posters, but others, some new and some older are just so easy to jump over. Laughable really, although discouraging. There are some that, although sounding knowledgeable, have obviously never played or coached and are frequently so wrong.

Looking forward to the 2nd half, the Giants still have two long 9-game road trips remaining on their schedule in late August and September. (Remember how the Giants only had one 3-city road trip on their entire 2012 schedule and that 3-city road trip included a stop in Oakland? Schedules matter.) If they want to jump back into this race, I think it is imperative they go at least 8-2 on this pseudo 10-game homestand to at least get back to within a couple games of .500. Sweep the DBacks, split vs the Reds, sweep the Cubs.

South City Jim

3rdNKing, Timmy hasn’t even hit the free agent market yet and he’s made $42.5 million the past two years. He made $18 million the year before that when Cain was making a fraction of that with one more year of service. Pretty big stretch to say “nothing for Timmy.” If anyone is getting stiffed, it’s Bum.

Foothills Ryan

Now for remainder of Giants Mid-Season Top Ten Prospects (no David Letterman – sorry)

#2 Andrew Susac – A catcher that can hit has considerable value. His patience at the plate is a virtue: 13.9 BB%. His numbers are up across the board after jump to AA. RC+ = 136.

#3 Mac Williamson – The Giants organizational scarcity of outfielders that can hit with power is the biggest factor here. He has the tools and can take a walk. Just needs to cut back on strikeouts.

#4 Edwin Escobar – Great numbers as 21 year old in Cal League. Earned his call up to AA as a low 90′s throwing lefty with strike out stuff (>11Ks/9) and good command (BB/9 around 2).

#5 Clayton Blackburn – He’s just 20 and punching out over 10/9 IP. Not a pure stuff pitcher, but the reports on the make up, command and movement are very good. He figures to rise quickly through system.

#10 Joe Panik – Still has more BB’s than K’s in AA. Limited power though and projects as a second base/utility infielder.

On the cusp prospects later…

South City Jim

The key to the second half rests with Cain. If he’s the horse, G’s are in this thing. If he isn’t you can put a fork in them. Bum, Lincecum and Guadin look to be solid, if Zito falters there’s Vogey and Surkamp as fall back positions, but they need to Cain to pitch like a #1 or a #2. The good news is they miss Corbin this weekend. Not sure why but not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

NOSHAME

How we all pity you Alex for having to work over the weekend; it must be so rough touring the country with the reigning champions and being put up in suites, eating all kinds of delicious food, flying first class, and having to write 500 words about it. They really should give you a full week off during your 7 month work year, for which you have 3 different substitute writers to help you out. Mediocre article though!

ClutchUp

Shame:

Your board name fits your post. You have zero clue what Alex’s day to day consists of. Another post for others to skim over.

Really shameful of you. Respect breeds respect.

Joe

You tell em Clutchy

Woj

I hope Sabean has been lighting up the phones on trading Timmy, Laffeldt, Lopez, Pence, etc. these past 3 days and not let his Joe Cool sunglasses get in the way of dialing other GMs’ #s.

Because once the Giants go 4-6 on this homestand even the wildest zaniest optimists will need to conclude a 10 game under team at trading deadline needs to be selling off and acquiring prospects.

15-35 over a 50 games stretch destroys any season.

pacman68

Hey Alex … why don’t you post what you think the Giants need to do to win in the second half?

If I told you in March that Tim Lincecum would have the second-best ERA in the Giants’ starting rotation, better than Matt Cain or Ryan Vogelsong, you’d probably assume that The Freak was having a huge bounce-back year and making a run at the NL Cy Young award or something.

Instead, it merely means that the Giants had their rotation, one of the team’s strengths in recent years, drop off the cliff like in one of those old Road Runner cartoons.

The Giants aren’t quite out of it, and an additional starter is necessary for them to maximize their chances of playing meaningful games come September. Santana being actual trade bait is unusual, but he’s had a legitimately solid season and San Francisco could use him even if he’s only a mid-rotation guy going forward.

AT&T Park is a rough home for lefty sluggers with less power than Barry Bonds, and given that Santana’s downfall is frequently the home run. He may be that rare player who doesn’t mind that the Bay Area seems to be about 20 degrees at night during the summer.

Sam

Who needs a thumping first baseman who drives in runs when you can have a first baseman who tries for walks so the gearheads can dive down 20 layers to find a stat proving that his “keen eye” makes him above league-average for palindromic-initialed left-handed hitters aged 25 and under with home fields located north of the 37th parallel?

Bingo Longs Allstars/ClutchUp

“Trys for walks” = misnomer.

“Gearheads” ?

All one needs is “eye/ear” test.

CAB

The next 7 games are pretty critical for the Giants. If they can make up some ground on the D-Backs and go something like 5-2 then i think they’re still in this thing and should consider going after another starter and/or some outfield help. If they go 2-5 or 1-6 and lose even more ground, then I think you need to seriously consider being sellers.

Biggest key i think is Cain. If he doesn’t come around, then its going to be hard to compete.

Polioptila Veintiocho

ngry Dan says:
July 18th, 2013 at 10:36 am

“Looking forward to the 2nd half, the Giants still have two long 9-game road trips remaining on their schedule in late August and September. (Remember how the Giants only had one 3-city road trip on their entire 2012 schedule and that 3-city road trip included a stop in Oakland? Schedules matter.) If they want to jump back into this race, I think it is imperative they go at least 8-2 on this pseudo 10-game homestand to at least get back to within a couple games of .500. Sweep the DBacks, split vs the Reds, sweep the Cubs.”

2-8 is far likelier than 8-2.

Sam

Eye/ear test is simple:

1) The grace and fluidity of the pitcher’s windup and release
2) The whizz of the ball zipping toward home plate
3) The thwack of the ball hitting the catcher’s glove as BB9 either swings and misses or hopes the ump rules it out of the strike zone
4) The smirk on the opposing team’s faces

Lefty

Ugh, I’d give up Gary Brown for the right deal, but no one gets him AND Mac Williamson for a two-month rental starter. Rather take my chances with Vogey or Surkamp.

I say hang onto Mac. It’s not like the Giants are dripping in position player prospects, and this one may have some upside.

pacman68

Giants need to sweep the Dbacks plain and simple. They sweep them … it’s on. They lose 2-3 or get swept. It’s over and they should be sellers.

Keep It Reel

I would trade Brown but I would keep Mac. Package someone else in that deal.

Gumby Shoulders

Instead of paying top dollar for a starting pitcher FA in the offseason, how about just slipping a couple million in small unmarked bills to Gaudin’s accuser to get her to drop the charges, and then resigning Gaudin for a good price?

The Real KetchUp

The fake “Sam” really needs to get laid.

2holehitting

Sabeans mantra

Trade unproven prospects for proven major league ball players. Very few if any are ever untouchable.

Nice list. Looks like you are bullish on Susac and Williamson, bearish on Brown and Panik. Rightly so. You may be too high on Agosta as he is a collegiate pitcher in low A. What about Heath Hembree? Ty Blach is a name that deserves mention, more so if you like extreme control pitchers: walks less than 1 per 9 and has a nice trim 2.63 ERA in the Cal League.

This is probably not the most prospect-hound friendly site to discuss prospects. I recommend DrB’s site. Here is his midseason report:

Sabes lucked into a winning formula in 2010. Pitching then prayed for miracles by dumpster diving. Miracles did happen in 2010 and 2012 so Sabes is now spending huge portion of the payroll on pitching. Will it keep working? We will see soon after this year.

Polioptila Veintiocho

Sam says:
July 18th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

“Eye/ear test is simple:

1) The grace and fluidity of the pitcher’s windup and release
2) The whizz of the ball zipping toward home plate
3) The thwack of the ball hitting the catcher’s glove as BB9 either swings and misses or hopes the ump rules it out of the strike zone
4) The smirk on the opposing team’s faces”

That pretty much sums it up. Except for perhaps Brandi Crawford, there’s nobody else an opposing pitcher would rather face.

pacman68

dj

There is nothing lucky about Sabean. You don’t take a team to 3 World Series in 10 years and be a fluke. Sabean knows what he is doing. Does he make bad trades sometimes? Yes … but I will take 3 World Series appearances in less then 10 years any day.

Mooooooooooose

Most of the people here who claim to be “realists” call it a fluke with almost every comment they make.

Foothills Ryan

Thanks FG.

Does Hembree have a secondary pitch to go with a possibly too straight fastball? The AAA results have not been impressive.

Ty Blach sounds a lot like Chris Heston to me. Which isn’t all that bad.

Anti-Lasorda

Heston is no longer a Gigante… DFAed last week.

carmot

Personally, I cannot imagine the Brain Trust trading Lincecum on their own volition. We all know the Giants Way includes “pitching is the Gold Standard”- developing and keeping said pitching is all part of that.

However, IF Timmy expresses that he wishes to test FA and will leave, then it is a whole different story. And nothing the Giants can really do about it.

My take on Lincecum is he’s NEVER been “all about the money.” I’ve never heard a word of complaint from him about basically anything… From his ~$600k salary after his first Cy (still an arb or pre-arb year). To no offense in the lineup for his first few years. To moving to the bullpen. To, well, basically anything.

He didn’t WANT a 5-year deal when offered up to him. I might say he’d agree to even a 1 or 2 year deal if he wants to stay on as a Giant. Maybe in part to increase his value, or ensure he can maintain a starting role (or leave soon). Maybe in part because he saw a good friend in Zito deal with all the salary pressure from media, fans, and himself.

If he wants to stay, maybe a $15M one-year or 2/$29M actually gets it done IMO. The Giants have enough in their coffers to take this ‘gamble’ with ease, and at worst overpay a good/elite reliever for a year or two.

——–

Please! Do NOT trade Susac. IMO, he’s the viable and VALUABLE catcher replacement we have in our system for whenever Posey moves from behind the dish. I am actually impressed with his receiving skills, and his bat continues to develop along with his eye at the plate. Organizationally, he is too valuable IMO.

Lohse is clearly the pitcher we should be after IMO. I would expect his stats and peripherals to improve dramatically while pitching at both AT&T and AT&T South. His $11M/yr salary through 2015 would give us tons of flexibility too.

If we find that our prospect arms can fill a #3 and/or #4 slot in out rotation, trading him could always be an option. Or move him to our #5 for 2015, would be ‘best case scenario.’ But at least from this year through the start of next, he could fill #3 or #4 quite well IMO.

There is nothing good about the idea of getting Ervin Santana. He would be a rental, and there is not one single rental we should even consider for 2013. Pitcher or position player. Period.

At least Shields has a team option for 2014 IIRC.

ClutchUp

If Sabean is “lucky” then all 29 other organizations would like a little bit of that luck.

Before the Gigantes as a Yankee Scout – he drafted or signed Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte and JT Snow.

In 1997 Sabean trades MattyWill9 to the Tribe for Vizcaino, Joe Roa, Tavarez and Jeff Kent and as Pacman says since 2002 has been to the SHIP three times and won it twice.

Hmmm dj says “lucky” – I think not.

*** Also there are hundreds of reasons why the ’76 Reds were last NL team to repeat as champs having won it in 1975. ***

totalfan62

@ carmot: both Lohse and Shields look like viable options. Lohse at $11MM for each of the next two years appears to be a good value based on his history and age. KC traded Wil Myers–top 5 MLB prospect–for Big Game James, and moving him so soon after that trade would not be well received in KC, IMHO. Shields has a club option of $12MM for 2014, with a $1MM buyout.

If our young guns are truly ready in 2015, I think Lohse, Shields and Jake Peavy make the most sense. I still put Peavy #1, based on his history with Bochy and his fit with Cain, Bum, Posey, et.al.

Didn’t want to brag, since nobody would believe it (and I can’t find it) – but Snorkel predicted a Freak no-hitter a couple months ago, when he started finding his control. Don’t diss that kittie. gilligan

paul in p.v.

*Snorkel’s* – doh.

carmot

Sure, I like Peavy too. But I do get concerned about his health. Didn’t he suffer a traumatic injury where he seperated his lat muscle from his shoulder a couple years ago? And his recent oblique injury.

I do not want a ‘question mark’ to go into our long-term plans for our rotation. Otherwise, we can see ourselves looking for a stop-gap solution for our ‘new’ solution just as quick as that.

IMO, Lohse meets and surpasses all the parameters I have. He could be available. He’s under contract thru 2015. He is very good and could slot #3 or #4. He’s quite reliable. His salary is even very ‘reasonable’ in modern MLB terms.

I’d add two more high prospects from Lohse to get Iwakuma from SEA, but I have the feeling, that just could not happen. SEA will hold onto Hisashi.

carmot

geez. GE’s moderation software/filter is a joke.

——

Sure, I like Peavy too. But I do get concerned about his health. Didn’t he suffer a traumatic injury where he seperated his lat muscle from his shoulder a couple years ago? And his recent oblique injury.

I do not want a ‘question mark’ to go into our long-term plans for our rotation. Otherwise, we can see ourselves looking for a stop-gap solution for our ‘new’ solution just as quick as that.

IMO, Lohse meets and surpas$es all the parameters I have. He could be available. He’s under contract thru 2015. He is very good and could slot #3 or #4. He’s quite reliable. His salary is even very ‘reasonable’ in modern MLB terms.

I’d add two more high prospects from Lohse to get Iwakuma from SEA, but I have the feeling, that just could not happen. SEA will hold onto Hisashi.

Foothills Ryan

Giants are heck of a lot closer to selling than buying. But probably closest to standing pat (closer to home for Sabean).

A series sweep against the DBacks might drum up the the buyer mode apparatus in Sabes’ office.

And the first series of the second half opens with Chad Gaudin on the hill?

He’s been good and all, but how did this happen? So much for lining up the 2nd half with ol’ Numero Uno.

#2 Andrew Susac – A catcher that can hit has considerable value. His patience at the plate is a virtue: 13.9 BB%. His numbers are up across the board after jump to AA. RC+ = 136.

#3 Mac Williamson – The Giants organizational scarcity of outfielders that can hit with power is the biggest factor here. He has the tools and can take a walk. Just needs to cut back on strikeouts.

#4 Edwin Escobar – Great numbers as 21 year old in Cal League. Earned his call up to AA as a low 90′s throwing lefty with strike out stuff (>11Ks/9) and good command (BB/9 around 2).

#5 Clayton Blackburn – He’s just 20 and punching out over 10/9 IP. Not a pure stuff pitcher, but the reports on the make up, command and movement are very good. He figures to rise quickly through system.

This is a farm system with one elite prospect and several mid level prospects (one or two that could become impact players). An ill-advised trade could really send the Giants farm system further back in the organizational rankings. They need to find a way to add talent outside of the June Rule IV draft. The last three first rounders taken by the Giants are more or less on the down the swing. The 2013 first rounder was a HS talent that was viewed by most as a reach. Dipping into the international pool could only help the system. An alignment of the stars at the trade deadline would provide a welcome boost to the system.

ClutchUp

Lincecum Revisited: Johan Santana threw 134 in his 2012 No hitter and his pitch total backed up on him a bit.
In 2010 Edwin Jackson threw 149 during his no hitter and the jury is still out. Odds are if Timmy’s 148 is scrutinized, analyzed and overanalyzed then all the pundits and negative nellies will get their wish and somehow it will be a topic of concern asap

Timmy threw 148 pitches, but only 95 of those pitches were callable – just 50 balls and 23 called strikes. Swinging strikes, foul ball/tip, HBP and batted balls in play are not part of the callable count.

Of the two misses, one was strike two to E Cabrera (3rd inning K) and the other was strike two to W Venable (5th inning groundout). In reviewing the numbers, the called ball previously labeled “within strike zone” was borderline top of the zone and has been excluded per Miller Rule, so we’re just looking at those two for a 93/95 = 97.9% game.

ClutchUp

Ahmed Brooks (another professional athlete) dodges a bullet

DomnVinsDad

I think there is a difference between Lincecum and the others Clutch mentioned. We know about his freakish athletic ability (the walking on his hands upstairs, etc), but to me the biggest differnce is his non-icing regimen.

I still like Boston. Particularly in the light of Clay Buchholtz having another injury setback. And what happened to John Lester?

Maybe a surprise spending spree is on the horizon. There’s another Cuban who’s about to make more money than all the sugar for Soviet Mig repair transactions could ever add up to.

daniel

the trade for Kent was pure luck. Sabes wanted that knucklehead Tavarez as. Kent was a throwin even Sabes admitted that. Get the facts straight

You tell me that Pat Burrell, Huff Daddy, Andres Torres, Ross, Vogelsong Scutaro etc..are the work of genius? it was pure luck. It was their year in 2010 when Ross was not supposed to play at all but furtunately for them, Guillen was caught with drugs so Bochy had to play Ross.

Scutaro was not doing sh$t in CO when Sabes traded for him, now he is hitting 60 points above his career avg. I am sure Sabes predicted that too

Kyle Perizi

CU:

Rod Carew stealing home with head first slides was must see tv . He did it 7 times in 1969 and 17 times in his career . I think Ty Cobb did it 57 or 59 times . I always felt safer going head first into second because the infields were not always in the best shape and were hell on the knees .

Rod Carew was a great player , person , and tipper .

408svl

i am thinking PENCE and BELT to spark the offense. LINCECUM and GAUDIN to stabilize the SP’s. CASILLA, LOPEZ and ROMO to close it out. what do you think?

trade? why not. but who?
1) a lead off hitter or somebody who has RBI’s capabilities.
2) middle relief.
3) trade someone from the 25 men rooster.

68 more games. start the 2nd half with a 10 games homestand. wooohooo or heh,heh,heh?

ClutchUp

They are all sitting on pins and needles since Comcast is replaying Dallas Braden’s’ PG at 7pm and 55′s No No at 730pm prolly without commercials.

Check out the blog in 2010-11 and 2012 after the all star game. Almost the same vibe.

I think you wanted to sign Braden right Footy? You and Anti-Lasorda? Talk about a complete fall from health after his PG.

The other day I posted: Pick another item: PG and NO NO that after it happens it guarantees almost zilch within somebody’s career.

I think Babe Ruth was involved in Pitching a NONO but got thrown out in the first inning

Kyle Perizi

I’d love to see Will Clark in a Gs broadcast booth as an analyst . He would definitely provide color .

carmot

Foothills:

I’d wonder if Cody Hall might push Panik out of #10 on your well written prospect rankings/report?

One other I think would be on the borderline of top-10, is really Juan Perez. His bat in MiLB has been fairly strong. His defense is clearly already able to ‘play’ at the MLB level. His versatility of playing multiple positions, I can easily see him inheriting the bench IF, or UT, or OF role for 2014.

Well, I’m not sure if Tanaka is considered a ‘prospect’ by most, with all his pro ball experience already. But if he could possibly play 2B and/or 3B even “decently” and LF proficiently… His value is quite high IMO. His bat could play at the MLB level for a solid career.

I know many here have written off the potentials of Brett Pill, but I have not. I think he should be playing in the majors. And if it ain’t gonna be for us, why not trade him? There are plenty of teams that would give him a look. I know (IIRC) that he passed thru Rule 5 last year without being picked up. But he continues to impress at the AAA level.

As others have noticed, MLB isn’t exactly flush with power bat 1B right now. Some teams would surely be interested in his team-friendly price tag.

———

Special thanks to Foothills and VGF for spending the time to share prospect and Giants MiLB reports with the rest of us. Cheers.

Dream big. Dream GIANT.

H-Boston

Lefty says:

July 17th, 2013 at 8:01 pm 235..Column on Belt from the Bay Area Sports Guy site (written by Wendy Thurm):

Excellent article, but objective evidence will
never convince some BELT detractors.

I think most of my fellow Gnatfans would agree that Brandi is not the ONLY problem.

ClutchUp

For some teams intangibles are harder to clearly see than others. I’ll give you ONE big one that may/may have not gone unnoticed.

Torii Hunter wanted to stay with the Angels. Players know who one of their bonifide leaders are/was and in fact Hunter wanted to retire as an Angel but is now a Tiger and the Halos are scuffling in ways they thought they had fixed. They finished in 3rd – 5games out and are currenly again in 3rd but 11 games behind the leaders.

If the Giants move Lincecum (and others here have hit on this factor) early, soon or at the deadline — there will obviously be a tangible loss but a humungous intangible loss within the fiber and soul of the Giants’ Clubhouse. Players know what only players can know. Beat reporters and coaching staff and National Scribes write what they think they know based on piecing together twitter stories, MLB stuff, ESPN stuff and reading, listening to and watching other reports.

Cepeda, Mays, McCovey, Perry, Bobby Bonds, Juan etc were all traded or sent away for bad trade reasons or business reasons like “we couldn’t take care of him the way he needed to be taken care of”

Baer as a kid watched this all unfold. Baer road the street car with his own dad out to Candlestick as a kid. Baer watched as the Giants played one day game at the Stick and after waved goodbye to the fans seemingly on their way to Tampa Bay. Baer watched as Bob Lurie and Bud Herseth bought the Giants and kept them here.

Baer was part of the investors group with Peter who bought the Giants in 1992 from Bob Lurie and again kept them in SF, worked at getting financing for then Pac Bell and became involved in almost every decision since 1992-1993.

Those 30-32 Investors probably look towards Baer for guidance and since Timothy Leroy became a Giant in 2007 he helped usher and lead Giants baseball away from the declining Bonds years.

Ahhhh Yes, Dallas Braden. He was supposed to get a locker next to Brian Wilson and his team friendly deal.

Phillip Humber, Dallas Braden, Armando Galaragga…

===

Carmot,

You are welcome and thank you. You know what they say about relief prospects, don’t you? Not good enough to start. At least not enough aptitude with tertiary pitches.

Francisco Peguero doesn’t make the list either. MIA. And has no plate discipline. Juan Perez is the best he’ll be and like Pill is non -prospect at his age. Bench roll player ceilings.

ClutchUp

For those like Footy who are STILL bored from the AS break here’s last years Locker Room – 49er style. Footy? You still don’t have an NFL franchise down your way. Hasn’t been the same since Georgia Frontiere took your Rams to St. Louis

I don’t think the Angels’ problem is absence of Torii Hunter. More like pitching. Torii left his heart in Minnesota.

There’s a price for everything dear Clutch. And if Boston is in a bind for a starter, Sabean better not let your heart strings dictate whether or not he accepts an enticing prospect or two. You have to accept the real possiblity that Lincecum may peak in the month of July and then go back to square one (2012 reg season and early 2013).

Foothills Ryan

Clutch why don’t you pull up a link to Jim Rome and “Chris Evert”. Do your thing dawg.

stickman

Most striking in the excellent Wendy Thurm piece on Belt was how she delineated better than i did the other day how the big bad basher at first base is an “outdated concept”. Exactly.

Overall, taking in both offensive and defensive value, Belt’s current rating among NL first sackers is probably in the 5-7 range out of 15 starters. Not at all bad for his low, low price. Projected a year or two into the future and unless somebody new crashes the party, or unexpectedly picks it up several notches BB9 should rate #3 after Goldschmidt and Votto.

With, i think, 33 XBH’s to date, Belt may not reach the magic level of 60 on the season. However, 17 in 68 games looks very doable. My current projection is some combination of 23 doubles, dingers and triples to reach 56 by the end of September. Not bad at all for effectually a second year player.

Polioptila Veintiocho

“With, i think, 33 XBH’s to date, Belt may not reach the magic level of 60 on the season. However, 17 in 68 games looks very doable. My current projection is some combination of 23 doubles, dingers and triples to reach 56 by the end of September. Not bad at all for effectually a second year player.”

No doubt Peguero doesn’t make my list either. His bat just doesn’t appear like it will play enough and his defense can’t make up enough for that. Plus, his ‘speed’ is not enough, with his poor ‘starting speed’ challenging him to steal bags.
——–

About Hall. I was mentioning him last winter as another of our closer-types along with both Bochy and Hembree. I see him being fast-tracked, much like Romo was. Except maybe even faster, because of his college experience. So, less than 3 years until his call-up would be BEFORE June 2014. Eyes open for him in SF.

Just because Hall is a closer-type… I don’t see how “relief pitchers aren’t good enough to start” has anything to do with it. I could stretch this into a thing like “our 2B doesn’t hit well enough to play 1B, etc…” In reality, all 25 roster spots have varying and distinctive roles. A solid, lock-down closer is still a valuable commodity in the bigs. Just ask DET or MIL. Or our G’s in 2010 and 2012.

Hall is showing a high proficiency and ability at each level as he rises quickly. His ability to contribute to the MLB club would not go unnoticed. Maybe moving Romo into an uber 8th inning set-up man. Maybe making Casilla tradeable.

I’m also partial to Hall. I really like the stuff I’ve seen from him. I’ve written here about it already.
——

“Juan Perez is the best he’ll be and like Pill is non -prospect at his age. Bench roll player ceilings.”

How do you figure? From his 60-ish AB’s in MLB? I see tons more potential in Perez than I ever did in UT guys like Burriss, Bowker, Velez… Or OF prospect Peguero. Tons more than Darren Ford. I’d say a higher ceiling than our current IF Joaquin Arias. Partly because Perez also plays a mean OF, even though he’s hardly had playing time in the outfield. I’m seeing his baseball instincts help him, I think.

Anywho, I’m a fan and excited for Susac and Hall. A slightly lesser amount for Perez.

YMMV. Cheers.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

stick,

that’s one of the reasons I keep, some would say pointlessly, saying Crawford is a better fit at 2B alongside Belt. IMO, that’s step two in constructing a first class defensive infield.

TheNoseKnows

Craw at 2b….oooookaaaay

stickman

Dozen games left in July. 4-9 record so far in the month says sell off marginal assets which have frangible value. A winning record over a combination of 3 with the Snakes, 4 with the Reds, 3 vs the Cubs and then a pair in Philly is a possibility. Seven and five would probably be it, though, unless, as several have pointed out, Cain gets his shhhht together.

There is a wee bit of a riverboat gambler in Sabean’s makeup and he has pulled off some memorable trades late-season. That 7-5 after the Break would be pretty tempting to Brian. With Casilla’s return and Rosario’s steadiness to date, possibly Sabean will feel he can scrape by in the bullpen as constituted. This would leave a starter and a left-fielder who could either lead-off or bat in the five hole as the Enforcer. Pence is a bit much of a hacker to be a good fit in that role.

Should SF continue in its losing ways since the Toronto trip fiasco, then we could be sellers. A 5-7 record or a split of the 12 and i see Brian dumpster diving ~ as in recently released by Baltimore Jair Jurrgens who is now a free agent.

These next couple of weeks are gonna be interesting.

http://www.fangraphs.com/ channelclemente

One reason Belt’s defense isn’t showcased as much as it might be is driven by the fact the Giants have nearly the worst WHIP in the National League. Belt is always tacked to firstbase holding a runner.

stickman

Polyps is unmatched on the board for sporting a devastatingly puerile sense of humor.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Lefty: I had no idea that about the article on 1B where have they gone. Unbelievable huh?

Polioptila Veintiocho

Sticky is unmatched for attempting to use words he or she is incapable of defining.

http://yahoo BALDHEADSLICK1

Lefty: Meant to say I had no idea about the article on slugging firstbasemen where have they gone.

stickman

Carmot: Yes, the rapid and successful rise of Cody Hall is one of the real positives from the farm system this year. He is another reason why, compared with even two-three weeks ago, Sabean is unlikely to feel the need to trade for BP help. Though quite evidently not yet ready for a fireman role, most of Jake Dunning’s clean-start relief appearances have been quite successful in The Show. Mijares, on the other hand, has begun to show some reps in heavy traffic ~ like just the other night when he shut em down in a two-on, no outs situation.

SO…a trade of an established reliever along with, say, Pill and perhaps our third or fourth best starter prospect, might land a MOR starter or a LFer who could either lead off or fill that Enforcer role.

carmot

I’m grateful we have a new Grizzlies game to watch. Why does it say “Previously Recorded” on the screen, while I think it is live? DV-R programming says it’s live, and Grizzlies schedule says it is live…

I am glad the Grizzlies are taking the opportunity to have players in various positions. Especially Pill trying 3B. I know Perez hasn’t shown greatness in his few SS starts. I think SS footwork is a ton more important. Setting feet and shoulders is a necessity before AND while making defensive plays. Let’s see with some more seasoning.

Gary Brown made that CF as$ist to home plate look so simple.

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I find it so interesting that 1B like Kendrys Morales and Justin Morneau are ‘good/enticing’ trade chips, while I look at Brandon Belt as at least their equal right now. Plus, he’s got potential to continue improving. Plus plus, oh yeah cheap and under team control.

Same note, Alex Rios… Hunter Pence is a pretty equal (or better) comp to Rios for this season, other than Rios having more OF as$ists. But Pence (as we ALL know), plays in AT&T, while Rios plays in hitter-friendly US Cellular. Well, Rios is under contract thru 2014 and a 2015 team option, so that matters in a trade value.

stickman

Polly lips is readily confused by polysyllabic perspicacity. Sets off concatenations of cranial cross-referential caterpillars crawling clumsily through his consciousness.

It is likely, though, that he could attain gainful employment baiting hooks on a charter fishing boat. It would not take at all long for him to master that craft.

carmot

Foothills:

I highly doubt BOS would seriously be in for Lincecum. A power bat dominated AL division, would be as big a change as Lincecum could possibly face. Small AL East parks with that hot/humid weather & carry? Just not a good fit IMO. Also, not sure BOS would want to float a high prospect for a rental, as they are almost complete in their rebuild.

Not to mention, NYY are looking weak. Not as much this year, but for the foreseeable future. The Red Sox rebuild could put them in position for each of the next couple years. BOS just doesn’t fit as much for Timmy IMO.

YMMV. Cheers.

Lefty

Foothills: I heard the Sabean interview on the way home from work, too. He practically guaranteed that he’s not trading Timmy during this season.

I heard more ambivalence about Pence. There’s fondness for him because he’s a good guy and they won the World Series last year, but that doesn’t stack up next to two Cy Youngs, a no-hitter, four All-Star appearances, and two World Series–not to mention how wildly popular Lincecum has always been.

Sabean mentioned the five-day exclusive bargaining window and the possibility of qualifying offers and draft pick compensation. It sounds like that he’s not convinced yet about whether he wants to re-sign Lincecum and Pence or watch them walk, so keeping them for the rest of the season gives him more time to see what seems best.

408svl

i believe now that Rios wont be much of help for the GIANTS. the platooning of four OF is not by design. there was a need. there has to be a KEEPER on CF and LF. with the additions of TANAKA and FRANCOUER, how are you going to please any of these guys? if the four all sucks, SABEAN didn’t do thorough or erred on his decision to move forward to the second half of the SF GIANTS 2013 Baseball Season.

the legacy of SABEAN were free agents bad signings. believe me, most of them were bad. trading and getting the right player is his strength. as per BIG HEAD BOCHY wisdom say, ” he knows that “.

Sabean might’ve signed Francoeur as insurance… Just in case the front office gets overwhelmed with a trade offer for Pence. Doubtful as it might seem, this might’ve been part of the reasoning. Frenchy was a FA, so it didn’t cost any prospects and hardly any $ at all.

Using this logic, we’ve yet to see the Giants pick up a FA like Jerrjens, which would be similar ‘insurance’ in case Lincecum were to be traded in an overwhelming offer.
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I think the idea of re-signing Pence could be a very difficult decision to make. Can we trade him now? Is he over-priced for his performance? Will he take a hometown discount to stay here? Who could we get that is better? Are any OF prospects for 2014? Is that comp draft pick something the Giants’ Brain Trust think could be of significance? Would Pence project to be better the next year or three if we extend him here?

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I’d be down with trading Pence and Mijares if we can get two top-tier prospects back. Maybe add one(?) peripheral prospect to each deal (Chris Dominguez, Adrianza, Pill, Quirarte, McCormick) and we can net Gregory Polanco (or Alen Hanson) and C.J. Cron.

Works for me!

Foothills Ryan

Lefty et al,

I’m proud of Sabean. You heard his pragmatic approach. The 6.5 games back didn’t mean much because they are 8 games under .500. More concerned about getting to .500. He knows that wins don’t just materialize when the team is playing poorly and he understands the numbers.

I like that he’s playing it cool about Lincecum. If somebody really wants a 2 time CY pitcher with 2 WS rings and experience out of the pen, they are going to have make Sabean an offer he can’t refuse.

Good on Sabes. He’s m’boy, once again.

====

Carmot,

I think my language was a little too strong. Perez is a fine athlete and good ball player. He’s a 4th/5th OF. But so are Blanco and Torres. Same with Peguero and Kieschnick. Gary Brown is heading this direction.

Brett Pill could start at first base for a bad team.

Relievers just aren’t hot prospects unless they are blowing away the competition. Hembree’s stock did some major cooling. I think Hall throws 93-95. Every organization has young power arms in their minors with similar ceilings to Hall and Oates.

ooops, I’m “out of time”

The Real KetchUp

Go ahead and rack Ryan with the Jim Rome reference. That was phenomenal.