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Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Are the Pacers in a position to trade away their only "star" player? Attendance is already relatively low. The team has taken the back-burner to the Colts. All anyone ever talks about anymore are off-court incidents and poor decisions by management. I really wonder if they can do this. I know JO was an unknown when the Dale trade was made but the team had the support of the fans, had recently been to the finals and still had the "star" player. Dale was a local hero but by no means a star.
They're already having trouble marketing this team. Al Harrington is still on billboards downtown. A team in this market has to have a star player.

I disagree here.

Jermaine is a star but not what I like to call a unreplacable star.

Reggie was that guy. Reggie was the face of the franchise. When you think Indiana Pacers you still probably think Reggie Miller. Winning was associated with Reggie here.

Can't say the same about Jermaine. I wouldn't call him a fan favorite on the same level as Reggie was. Nothing against Jermaine but it's just different.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Are the Pacers in a position to trade away their only "star" player? Attendance is already relatively low. The team has taken the back-burner to the Colts. All anyone ever talks about anymore are off-court incidents and poor decisions by management. I really wonder if they can do this. I know JO was an unknown when the Dale trade was made but the team had the support of the fans, had recently been to the finals and still had the "star" player. Dale was a local hero but by no means a star.
They're already having trouble marketing this team. Al Harrington is still on billboards downtown. A team in this market has to have a star player.

Hmmm..... interesting, I want to disagree but I don't know if I can.

The way the NBA has marketed itself for about 20 years or better now I think has made this point almost to real to disagree with. I know that the NBA has always marketed individual talent (see George Mikans vs. the Knicks on the MSG billboard back in the day) but since Larry and Magic came into the league it has skyrocketed. Jordan only took it to another level but he didn't start it.

I can't help but want to believe that the city would support a winning team without a star but your point just makes to much damn sense to ignore. I will have to think on this.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Are the Pacers in a position to trade away their only "star" player? Attendance is already relatively low. The team has taken the back-burner to the Colts. All anyone ever talks about anymore are off-court incidents and poor decisions by management. I really wonder if they can do this. I know JO was an unknown when the Dale trade was made but the team had the support of the fans, had recently been to the finals and still had the "star" player. Dale was a local hero but by no means a star.
They're already having trouble marketing this team. Al Harrington is still on billboards downtown. A team in this market has to have a star player.

I think your point is well taken but I think your conclusions are wrong. JO is not 'selling' for the franchise. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for even core fans to believe in with the team as it is currently. Only Donnie Walsh cares JUST about making the playoffs. The only other people that care are those that foolishly think the NBA playoffs are like the NCAA playoffs and a Cinderella could get hot and go deep. That's only true in the NBA if you are already on your hot streak entering the playoffs. I cannot believe those fans would make up a serious block of ticket buying fans. If you back into the playoffs reality will kick in and you'll be kicked to the curb with your consolation prize being a box of Rice-a-Roni... errrrrrr no.... a mid first round draft pick. Medocre picks for a mediocre team.

And this year (so far) the Pacers can't even market the spin job of how they got a lottery pick caliber player at pick 17 or whatever.

What would really help market this team is new management. Dynamic, forward thinking, management. Management that has a grasp on Indianapolis circa 2007 as well as Indiana.

I see the Colts are taking some players (and I assume cheerleaders too) on an autograph tour around the state this summer. And hitting small communities. Even French Lick, Indiana. Earlier this year they took the SB trophy on a tour of Indiana. Is it any wonder why the Colts are running all over the Pacers in fan support? Even with a championship in their back pocket they are still 'making it personal' with the fans. What are the Pacers doing? -Losing, making fat paychecks, and going home?

-Bball

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

What would really help market this team is new management. Dynamic, forward thinking, management. Management that has a grasp on Indianapolis circa 2007 as well as Indiana.

I see the Colts are taking some players (and I assume cheerleaders too) on an autograph tour around the state this summer. And hitting small communities. Even French Lick, Indiana. Earlier this year they took the SB trophy on a tour of Indiana. Is it any wonder why the Colts are running all over the Pacers in fan support? Even with a championship in their back pocket they are still 'making it personal' with the fans. What are the Pacers doing? -Losing, making fat paychecks, and going home?

-Bball

You're hired

I sent an email to the Ps marketing side saying something very similar to what you've posted here Bball. The entire organization needs to get their collective heads out of their backsides.

I and a few others posting here seemed to have the same feeling of relief leaving Conseco and knowing we didn't have to go back for awhile after losing that final playoff game to Jersey a season ago. That series was sickening and no one seemed to care about winning (fans or players).

I agree completely with Rommie that Jermaine is not a superstar player. Some may buy into it because he is the only one that does comercials that are seen on national television. The media machine has does a good job of hype, but where has the dominate superstar production been on the floor?

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

I see the Colts are taking some players (and I assume cheerleaders too) on an autograph tour around the state this summer. And hitting small communities. Even French Lick, Indiana. Earlier this year they took the SB trophy on a tour of Indiana. Is it any wonder why the Colts are running all over the Pacers in fan support? Even with a championship in their back pocket they are still 'making it personal' with the fans. What are the Pacers doing? -Losing, making fat paychecks, and going home?

-Bball

I have never been able to figure out why the Pacers don't do this. Evidently the Colts don't feel they have to just concede folks in Ft Wayne to the Lions, or people in Valpo to the Bears. The Pacers? If it isn't in the belt, it doesn't matter.

I became a Knick fan because I met Walt Frazier in Albany (Guilderland actually) at a team appearance when I was about 10 years old in the early 70's. Not saying I wouldn't have become one anyway but that was the start of it. If the Knicks, playing in a metro area of 10 million people, traveled all over the state to draw more fans, why the flock don't the Pacers?

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Whether JO is deserving of his star status isn't the debate. The debate is...if JO leaves town for a mid-late 1st rounder, Bynum(who most have never heard of) and Odom or Brown who goes up on the billboards? There wouldn't be a single player on this team worthy of being the face of a franchise. JO is an all-star player after all and his departure for what I've seen rumored would leave this team without a face. There are a few guys who may one day be those kind of players. While the idea of billboards with Granger, Ike and MDJ may get some of us hardcore guys excited most people would be confused as to who the hell they are. Many of the season ticket holders are corporations. They use the tickets as incentives, handouts, perks etc....Those perks become nearly worthless when all they give you is a struggling basketball team with no star players. The reality of the situation is many people who attend games know little about the team to begin with, it doesn't help if there isn't a player they see on TV commercials, all-star games etc...With an All-Star on the team people feel like they're seeing something special, if you take that away they have no reason to shell out the kind of money it costs to go to one of these games (even w/ free tickets).

I know this will make some of you think "The game is bigger than one player". Ask some of you non-NBA freak friends or co-workers to name any player not named Lebron or Kobe on their respective teams, or where Allen Iverson plays for that matter. The point is they won't know and they make up the vast majority of people who attend professional sporting events. There has to be a player people know and love or hate.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

If the Knicks, playing in a metro area of 10 million people, traveled all over the state to draw more fans, why the flock don't the Pacers?

Here is the email I sent back in May...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I applaud your effort this past season in lowering prices for some seats and dreaming up promotions to keep the Pacers an entertaining product. As a fan who lives outside of Indianapolis (hour and a half drive) my wife and I are limited to a smaller number of games. We renewed our 10 game package and feel we do receive excellent value for our dollar.

The reason I am writing is I believe this coming season is the time the Pacers need to step up their effort outside of Indianapolis. I remember going to a sold out preseason game in Terre Haute because I was a Pacer fan yet the majority showed up because of Larry Bird. It took a number of years, but this area did change to Pacer territory with the special group of players in the 90s and finally when Bird became coach.

Itís time to tap into that again with a city that has a population around 70,000 and that does not include student enrollments at Indiana State University, Rose-Hulman, Ivy Tech, and Saint Mary of the Woods colleges.

I remember Antonio Davis signing autographs at a local sporting goods store (Pacesetter sports) and it took over 5 hours for the line to go through. The Pacers could regain some of that magic if some additional effort was made outside of the Indy metro area. The Colts have made those efforts and it has paid off here. I fully understand by Terre Haute hosting their training camp you expect that kind of response. However that still does not prevent the INDIANA Pacers from using what has already been established to remind the locals they can embrace an additional pro team.

The franchise is at a crossroads and I believe everyone is aware of it. When you bottom out it is time to try something different and look at things that worked in the past. Just a thought, Larry Bird is still seen by many as a hero in these parts, but the luster is starting to fade. Could a meaningless preseason game bring back that excitement in Terre Haute? I donít know that for a fact, but can guarantee the local sports media (tv, radio, paper) would love it. The positive spin would generate excitement and people love being a part of that.

Sincerely

XXXX XXXXX

P.S. This message is not intended for the insider newsletter/question blog. Rather itís a personal thought on my favorite team and the challenges it is currently facing.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Whether JO is deserving of his star status isn't the debate. The debate is...if JO leaves town for a mid-late 1st rounder, Bynum(who most have never heard of) and Odom or Brown who goes up on the billboards? There wouldn't be a single player on this team worthy of being the face of a franchise. JO is an all-star player after all and his departure for what I've seen rumored would leave this team without a face. There are a few guys who may one day be those kind of players. While the idea of billboards with Granger, Ike and MDJ may get some of us hardcore guys excited most people would be confused as to who the hell they are. Many of the season ticket holders are corporations. They use the tickets as incentives, handouts, perks etc....Those perks become nearly worthless when all they give you is a struggling basketball team with no star players. The reality of the situation is many people who attend games know little about the team to begin with, it doesn't help if there isn't a player they see on TV commercials, all-star games etc...With an All-Star on the team people feel like they're seeing something special, if you take that away they have no reason to shell out the kind of money it costs to go to one of these games (even w/ free tickets).

I know this will make some of you think "The game is bigger than one player". Ask some of you non-NBA freak friends or co-workers to name any player not named Lebron or Kobe on their respective teams, or where Allen Iverson plays for that matter. The point is they won't know and they make up the vast majority of people who attend professional sporting events. There has to be a player people know and love or hate.

Of all the things they or we should be worried about... I think having a face to put on billboards would be the least of them. Let's see if we can win half our games first.

I've said it before, but winning is the best marketing tool there is. Not only that, if you have a really crappy team, and you have one guys face on all the billboards representing that team, he is most likely going to get boo'd.

Anyway, I completely disagree with idea that having a superstar to hype is neccesary for a small market team like the Pacers, look at the Pistons, maybe some of those guys can be considered stars now, but they weren't when the team was put together. They achieved their status by WINNING, they earned it with their fans.
So, it IS neccesary for a small market team to WIN, at least half the games...is that too much to expect? Not having a superstar/face of the franchise, thats all moot if the team sucks... If they win... well then the good players will earn their star status with the fans.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Whether JO is deserving of his star status isn't the debate. The debate is...if JO leaves town for a mid-late 1st rounder, Bynum(who most have never heard of) and Odom or Brown who goes up on the billboards? There wouldn't be a single player on this team worthy of being the face of a franchise. JO is an all-star player after all and his departure for what I've seen rumored would leave this team without a face. There are a few guys who may one day be those kind of players. While the idea of billboards with Granger, Ike and MDJ may get some of us hardcore guys excited most people would be confused as to who the hell they are. Many of the season ticket holders are corporations. They use the tickets as incentives, handouts, perks etc....Those perks become nearly worthless when all they give you is a struggling basketball team with no star players. The reality of the situation is many people who attend games know little about the team to begin with, it doesn't help if there isn't a player they see on TV commercials, all-star games etc...With an All-Star on the team people feel like they're seeing something special, if you take that away they have no reason to shell out the kind of money it costs to go to one of these games (even w/ free tickets).

I know this will make some of you think "The game is bigger than one player". Ask some of you non-NBA freak friends or co-workers to name any player not named Lebron or Kobe on their respective teams, or where Allen Iverson plays for that matter. The point is they won't know and they make up the vast majority of people who attend professional sporting events. There has to be a player people know and love or hate.

there is some validity to this but i would also argue that we currently have jermaine as a marketing tool and attendance has dropped. i think it has more to do with winning. if you're looking for a marketing campaign, you put danny, ike, shawne, quis, (bynum?) and base the campaign around reclaiming the dynasty (i know i know, we never actually had a dynasty but once again, casual fans...). i actually think it is less about having a single marketable player than it is about winning and excitement surrounding a team. now i think bringing in a lamar odom is important for a few other reasons but its not to get a borderline all-star for marketing purposes.

I've said it before, but winning is the best marketing tool there is. Not only that, if you have a really crappy team, and you have one guys face on all the billboards representing that team, he is most likely going to get boo'd.

Anyway, I completely disagree with idea that having a superstar to hype is neccesary for a small market team like the Pacers, look at the Pistons, maybe some of those guys can be considered stars now, but they weren't when the team was put together. They achieved their status by WINNING, they earned it with their fans.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Based on recent history, this deal is not going to go down. Everyone knows that Donnie and Larry keep things close and the deal we make will come out of nowhere. Prime example: JO'B. The deal will probably involve someone none of us have thought of nor will think of and i think it is safe to say that it will not involve the lakers, unless they are the third team. I think Philly is a valid candidate because of their 3 first round draft picks.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Based on recent history, this deal is not going to go down. Everyone knows that Donnie and Larry keep things close and the deal we make will come out of nowhere. Prime example: JO'B. The deal will probably involve someone none of us have thought of nor will think of and i think it is safe to say that it will not involve the lakers, unless they are the third team. I think Philly is a valid candidate because of their 3 first round draft picks.

That Artest for Peja deal was a real big secret. So was that move of Harrington back to Indy.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

I have been hearing from people close to JO who say he's already pretty sure that is where he is headed. I mean he's buying a house in LA, his daughter is talking about it. And I even think he had sent a message through his website to a few people who know him that i know. Fact is i think JO is on his way out. Sad and yes no one on this team will really be a draw to games. Attendance will REALLY dip when there is no star and the team is losing night in and night out. (See atlanta hawks)...
Esp with the kind of weather indiana has.
anyone look forward to wearing that ike diogou jersey and braving freezing weather to go to conseco to see the pacers get hammered by 20+ points against the grizzlies?
Sounds like fun!

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

I have been hearing from people close to JO who say he's already pretty sure that is where he is headed. I mean he's buying a house in LA, his daughter is talking about it. And I even think he had sent a message through his website to a few people who know him that i know. Fact is i think JO is on his way out. Sad and yes no one on this team will really be a draw to games. Attendance will REALLY dip when there is no star and the team is losing night in and night out. (See atlanta hawks)...
Esp with the kind of weather indiana has.
anyone look forward to wearing that ike diogou jersey and braving freezing weather to go to conseco to see the pacers get hammered by 20+ points against the grizzlies?
Sounds like fun!

is joe johnson not a star?

the stands were empty with JO on the team. i can't imagine it being a whole lot worse. if we start winning it'll be fine. that is the part atlanta hasn't quite figured out yet.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

Anyone find it strange the talk front has been quiet? i hope this is a good sign for both parties. i think everyone is waiting until draft day to announce the trade especially because the Pacers wanna see what picks falls in the 19th slot.

"To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe." - Anatole France

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

I have been hearing from people close to JO who say he's already pretty sure that is where he is headed. I mean he's buying a house in LA, his daughter is talking about it. And I even think he had sent a message through his website to a few people who know him that i know. Fact is i think JO is on his way out. Sad and yes no one on this team will really be a draw to games. Attendance will REALLY dip when there is no star and the team is losing night in and night out. (See atlanta hawks)...
Esp with the kind of weather indiana has.
anyone look forward to wearing that ike diogou jersey and braving freezing weather to go to conseco to see the pacers get hammered by 20+ points against the grizzlies?
Sounds like fun!

How is that different than wearing a JO jersey and braving freezing cold to watch the Bobcats dismantle the Pacers?

Or braving freezing cold to watch Golden State slam them?

-Bball

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

There have been many a day when I went to a Pacer game in bad weather, not just cold. It adds to the fun. I look forward to seeing the new Pacers this fall and also to seeing team ball and if a star comes along then that is just gravy.

Re: Vescey: Lakers will be acquiring JO

I have been hearing from people close to JO who say he's already pretty sure that is where he is headed. I mean he's buying a house in LA, his daughter is talking about it. And I even think he had sent a message through his website to a few people who know him that i know.

Esp with the kind of weather indiana has.

I'll tackle the second part first. Indiana has had the same weather for longer than you or I have been alive. People will come to see a team that works hard, shows that they are trying to get the job done, and displays the sort of character they can get behind. Weather is not a factor for Indiana basketball fans.

Now to the first part.

Let's see a copy of the supposed message that he sent to people that you know. You can delete their names to protect their privacy. If they are people you know, you can surely get at least one of them to forward the message to you, can't you? Unless, of course, this is all a bunch of BS. But, then again, you wouldn't post any thing like that, would you?