Express to Internet Hate: Bus company threatens redditor with lawsuit

Update: Pleading misunderstanding of Reddit, lawyer changes mind.

People complain about businesses online all the time. But one bus company's campaign to shut down its Internet haters has expanded into an array of lawsuits and, most recently, threats against a reddit forum moderator.

Suburban Express is a bus line that caters to students, providing weekend lifts into the Chicago area from colleges in Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa. The company has developed a bad reputation online, with reviewers on Yelp and commenters on reddit sharing stories of what they claim are the company’s cutthroat business practices. For example, the company's ticket policy includes a "ticket fraud" clause that hits riders who hand the wrong ticket to a driver with a $100 fine, charged to the credit card used to purchase their ticket. "In the event that ticket is used to obtain transportation on another day or at another time," the company's policy statement reads, "or to or from a Chicago area stop other than printed on your ticket, you will be charged full fare for the trip you actually rode PLUS $100 penalty. You will also be permanently banned." The company also has a history of suing passengers for violating its terms and conditions—it has filed 125 tort and contract damage lawsuits against passengers this year alone, according to a report from a student newspaper.

The terms of service don't include not speaking ill of the company online, but apparently they might as well. Some commenters have accused the company's owner, Dennis Toeppen, of hunting down negative reviewers and banning them from the company's buses.

The Internet cauldron of opinion boiled over for Suburban Express after an incident on March 31. University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign graduate student Jeremy Leval took to Facebook, describing a driver he saw make derogatory comments to an international student who was having difficulty understanding him—“If you don’t understand English, you don’t belong at the University of Illinois or any ‘American’ University," he reportedly told her.

Four days later, Leval told the Daily Illini, University of Illinois' student newspaper, about the incident. He received an e-mail from the company that said he was being fined $500 for "liquidated damages" and was permanently banned. In a statement on the company's website, company owner Toeppen threatened to sue Leval, saying, "The attorneys for Suburban Express are reviewing this incident with a view towards filing the appropriate legal action against this meddlesome MBA student."

Toeppen then took to reddit himself to counter Leval's claims, saying that the companysomeone had apologized for the incident with the foreign student in a voicemail, saying, "I apologize for any offense taken in this incident, and don't know how this happened. We strive for perfection but can fall short in this imperfect world we live in..." But he denied that it was him that left the message, and wouldn't even say if it was someone representing the company. "Where did I say I heard the voice mail?" he posted in his own Reddit thread. "The person who left the message wrote his apology out on paper before he called Leval, and then read it. This he did so that he would know exactly what he said."

The ongoing controversy led to the following note being posted atop the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) subreddit: "Don't ride Suburban Express! They're likely to sue you, have terrible reviews, and also this." The "this" in question is a series of anonymous comments that a reddit moderator believes were made by Suburban Express, describing the reddit users as being virgins and chronic masturbators. "I'm a virgin and I'm sick of it," reads one comment. "Welcome to the forum for lonely virgins!" reads another.

Now, Suburban Express has unleashed its lawyers on the reddit moderator that deleted those comments. On April 24, James E. Long, an attorney for Toeppen and Suburban Express, sent a letter and e-mail to Murph Finnicum, a UIUC graduate student, accusing him of "allowing false and libelous" comments to be made about the company and of deleting posts "which counterbalance the negativity." They wrote, "If you do not take corrective action to remedy the damages from your false and libelous postings by removing the items by April 27, 2013, Suburban Express has authorized the pursuit of legal action against you as a result of your conduct."

"It was clear to me at the time that domain names were valuable, undeveloped virtual real estate," he wrote on his personal home page. "There was absolutely no statutory or case law regarding trademarks in the context of Internet domain names at the time. It seemed to be an excellent opportunity to do the virtual equivalent of buying up property around a factory—eventually the factory owner would realize that he needed the scarce resource which I possessed."

The legal threat against Finnicum quickly drew promises of support from others on reddit—including Ken White, the lawyer behind the legal blog Popehat. White sent an e-mail to Long, which he also posted to reddit: "I do not represent any party (though I have offered to connect the recipient of your threat with pro bono counsel). However, I am considering writing a post about the matter."

"Would you be willing to answer some questions about your threat?" White continued. "I'm particularly interested in discussing the factual basis for your assertions, how you reconcile your position with Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, and your evaluation of risks in light of the Streisand Effect."

White has also asked for others who have received legal threats from Suburban Express to contact him.

Ars contacted Toeppen to ask about his legal threats against the reddit moderator, but we haven't heard back. We'll update this post if we do.

Update: In a letter sent to Finnicum this afternoon by email and post shortly after this story ran, Suburban Express' attorney James Long said that no legal action would be pursued. "I will confess that I have very limited understanding of Reddit," he wrote, "and your response regarding the thread being moderated by several different individuals was instructive and was confirmed by individuals with much more knowledge of Reddit than I possess. At this time Suburban Express is of the opinion that it is best for the company and all individuals involved with this issue for Suburban Express to move forward with its mission to provide safe, courteous and efficient service to its current and future customers."

There is no word on whether Suburban Express intends to continue to press a case against Laval, or the other 125 individuals the company has filed suit against this year. Toeppen and Long have not yet responded to inquiries from Ars.

I wonder how many meltdowns via Streisand effect we'll need to see before companies like this learn that those bullying tactics that may have worked in elementary school will backfire on the web. There's already at least a half dozen very prominent examples of this, and never once has it worked out in favor of the business / party provoking the reaction.

Ideally, the Attorney General will start to look into these guys. I'm not sure "fines" like the ones they are applying are even legal. In most states, pure penalties are not legal/enforceable under contract law. Contract penalties need to be tied to some kind of cost (some kind of expense or lost sales calculation, at the very least). Charging an unenforceable "fine" to someone's credit card is no different than stealing.

I wonder how many meltdowns via Streisand effect we'll need to see before companies like this learn that those bullying tactics that may have worked in elementary school will backfire on the web. There's already at least a half dozen very prominent examples of this, and never once has it worked out in favor of the business / party provoking the reaction.

Another good reason to always use a credit card. Call the CC company up and say this was a fraudulent charge that you did not authorize. They will take it off.

The only reason this was even really a problem in the first place is because the ticket had been purchased with a CC, so the company still had the # on had. Had this been purchased with cash they couldn't just automatically bill you.

As a Arsian from Champaign-Urbana, former UIUC student AND former UIUC employee...This company is very well-known locally for their shady practices. If someone posts a negative review about his company, Dennis and his employees attempt to track down the person's personal info based on web information and ticket sales, and proceed to post said negative reviewer's personal info in public locations. Often as a reply to the review itself.

I wonder how many meltdowns via Streisand effect we'll need to see before companies like this learn that those bullying tactics that may have worked in elementary school will backfire on the web. There's already at least a half dozen very prominent examples of this, and never once has it worked out in favor of the business / party provoking the reaction.

This sort of thing works out in favor of the the business all the time. Most people who get a threat like this just quietly roll over. By the nature of the effect you only ever hear about it when it blows up in their face.

I seriously don't see how they get away with unapproved, unsigned for charges like that.

"Liquidated damages" are supposed to be where you pay an agreed upon estimate of actual damages which was decided upon on entering into a (here implicit) contract. These charges clearly do not fit this criteria: 1. When people buy a ticket they do not knowingly enter into a contract, and 2. it's pretty clear that no one is causing actual damages estimated at (an agreed upon) $100. In short these charges are bullshit. But people pay 'cos it is cheaper than being sued.

"Liquidated damages" are abused like this all the time, used to issue phony fines by people who have no authority to issue real fines. For so long as no one actually stands up for their rights and challenges them in court they can just keep on charging away.

Years ago, I occasionally used Suburban Express to get back and forth from Champaign and the Chicago suburbs -- it was cheap, and it beat the alternative (two trains and another bus).

The last time I ever rode on one of their buses, we spent a good chunk of the two-hour drive listening to the bus driver swearing into his phone about how someone had vandalized one of the other buses, and how he (the driver) was going to "find that little shit and teach him a lesson." To illustrate his point he gestured wildly with his other hand, while using his knees to steer. I couldn't see the speedometer from where I was sitting, but it looked like we were going around 80 miles per hour. That went on for at least twenty minutes, in which time he repeatedly mentioned that he wanted to find out where the vandal lived and "mess him up."

Maybe that was an isolated incident. I wouldn't know -- after that, I took the train.

Somebody ought to look into the bus company's license to operate. Are the drivers properly licensed as commercial drivers? do they have the proper liability insurance? are the buses actually safe? are they up to date on their state and federal taxes? Have they paid all the appropriate federal withholding, medicare/medicaid payments? Have they paid their Workman's comp bills? etc etc.Since we're talking Illinois and Chicago, Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion, not murder.

I seriously don't see how they get away with unapproved, unsigned for charges like that.

Another good reason to always use a credit card. Call the CC company up and say this was a fraudulent charge that you did not authorize. They will take it off.

Not that this guy would let it go easily.

I'm just amazed that they weren't drowned in chargebacks... CC companies aren't exactly your friends; but they really resent merchants who start scaring the livestock away from using their credit cards as often as possible.

Pushing impecunious students around in civil court, abusing review takedowns, and astroturfing are all scum moves; but they are all scum moves that are pretty easy to pull off unless you draw serious flack.

If 'price of bus ticket' turns into 'price of two bus tickets + $100', though, even a pretty clueless target(or their parents) will notice something amiss, and you won't like Visa when they're angry...

I'm from Indiana and have used Suburban a few times. I can fully attest to the fact that this is by FAR the worst transportation company I've ever had the displeasure of using. You're likely to have a better time on an overpriced tuk-tuk in Thailand, and believe me, that's saying a lot.

Whew, for a moment I thought Prenda was going to come to an end and I'd be sadly wandering the internet wastelands without entertaining nourishment. Thank you Suburban Express!

Regarding the Ars request for comment, did you remember to also ask about the Streisand Effect and the overwhelming number of defeats that are being delivered to companies like Suburban Express? Don't company officers have some kind of fiduciary duty to not take on idiotic level risks?

Yes, and I assume the owner has a fair amount of experience with how things work on the internet, being a squatter and aware of reddit and such. I would think he would be aware of the Streisand Effect too. But there's also a lot of stupid going on as well. Trying to levy a fine for bad reviews? Balls of dumb.

Sean Gallagher / Sean is Ars Technica's IT Editor. A former Navy officer, systems administrator, and network systems integrator with 20 years of IT journalism experience, he lives and works in Baltimore, Maryland.