Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

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Insufferable know-it-all. God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.

"O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock."

Just a word of thanks to RenaissanceFool.
We haven't had such a blatantly ignorant chew-toy stop by for a while ... it's been rather boring. His sort of ignorance provides such a great opportunity to demonstrate the foolhardiness of religious garbage. He does atheism a GREAT favor, and religion a huge disservice. Why would anyone want anything to do with his ignorant ilk ?

Insufferable know-it-all. God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.

(20-02-2010 09:32 PM)AnthongRedbeard Wrote: I saw the video posted, and had some of my own thoughts to share...

I know some extremely logical smart people who can't get over the idea of morality existing without of God. We continually try pointing to evidence, but it's pointless because the obstacle is also very personal.

If someone is able to lead a good and moral life without God, what does it say about the person who feels that God is required to live by those same standards? When it becomes obvious that "Maybe you need religion to keep you from raping and murdering others, but I don't." It's not just a debate it's a matter of personal character. Think of the scenario of the person who goes to Christianity because they think their slate gets wiped clean and they get to start over. If they ever admitted that morality was a choice and not church they would have to re-own the responsibility of their actions.

just some food for thought. I find that atheists are very rational people who try to explain things to theists in very rational and logical terms that are completely ignored because there is an emotional barrier that filters out whatever they need to feel safe and happy.

I think atheists tend not to understand why morality doesn't exist without God.

Without such a moral order, I have no real moral responsibilities, or duties, or obligations. If you were to accuse me of doing something immoral, and best it would translate to merely that my my actions offends your palette, akin to telling me you don't like my choice of wardrobe.

Moral language, discourse, beliefs, are based on a variety of archaic and religious presuppositions, such an intrinsic moral order, that we routinely take as a given. For religious people this might be okay, but for atheists it can't be. To continue with talking about morality with out taking this account, amounts to speaking gooblygook.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

What is moral is simply that which contributes to benefiting our species. Out of that, comes social agreement about what is good for our species. Evidence of this is in the fact that not every society has the same views on what is moral vs. immoral.

(02-11-2016 09:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote: Without such a moral order, I have no real moral responsibilities, or duties, or obligations. If you were to accuse me of doing something immoral, and best it would translate to merely that my my actions offends your palette, akin to telling me you don't like my choice of wardrobe.

Not "I" or "you", but society.

(02-11-2016 09:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote: Moral language, discourse, beliefs, are based on a variety of archaic and religious presuppositions, such an intrinsic moral order, that we routinely take as a given. For religious people this might be okay, but for atheists it can't be. To continue with talking about morality with out taking this account, amounts to speaking gooblygook.

Honestly it surprises me that, as long as you have been here, you aren't aware of the atheist view on this subject.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.

Without such a moral order, I have no real moral responsibilities, or duties, or obligations. If you were to accuse me of doing something immoral, and best it would translate to merely that my my actions offends your palette, akin to telling me you don't like my choice of wardrobe.

Just some video that can sort some of your misconceptions about the atheist take on morality, many of us ponder about that, we just think God is not only not necessary, but also doesn't himself offers an answer for objective morality.

“That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien