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Okay I think this has gotten way too personal. If it continues I will have to lock this thread down. I believe we are all capable of carrying on a civil discussion to it's conclusion without getting personal.

Thanks-Mark

Who started all this anyway? LOL
If you look at what I said in the 1st post, I don't think anyone has actually answered the question I asked, but thats ok, I enjoy hearing from everyone. And your right, lets keep it positive. thanks everyone.

Comment

I'd sooner come off like a fanatic than cater to complacency over the purpose of the trade, or stand by and accept belittlement in the face of a generation that describes the trade as "just a bunch of pipe" where they can hop over to the local HD and get a tutorial on how to install a boiler.

I literally had to stop a "handyman" from FLA who was getting idea's at HD on how to install a circulator onto a 40 gal just a month ago to heat his customers home.

I did my apprenticeship under a few "old guys" who had the depression era mentality from the guys they learned from, where a single fitting was as much as you made in a day.

They took the vocation very seriously, I suspect, to at least a degree, we may be entering a time where we revisit old values, the new and improved, "git'r done" mentality will have me busy re-piping and servicing the home flipper generation for years to come.

I have no animosity towards anyone, but I will defend the profession. I feel that it is part of my duty and responsibility to do so. Maybe It's because I'm old and old school and hold on to ideals but I have no intention of stopping now. I will defend each and every one of you licensed plumbers and have and will to whatever I can to educate others and help move the trade forward. I have always thought of plumbers as a brotherhood. We may disagree and fight with each other but in the end we all share a pretty big responsibility to the public and to the trade. I posted some similar musings on another forum that curiously enough is owned by a plumber and was amazed at the beating I took there and was never backed up or defended by any of the moderators (licensed plumbers mostly) or the owner of the site himself who would rather sell stuff (and let the members sell stuff) online than stand up for his trade and his living. It's a sad comentary on the state of affairs.

I believe all licensed plumber on this site support what you are saying but to be fair, it isn't the message as much as how you presented it.

Electricians and Contractors may not need to be licensed in your neck of the woods but they do in others. Yes plumbing is a very old trade but there were buildings before there was plumbing so building would be a very old trade as well.

There is no argument modern sanitation irradiated many of the diseases and plagues and increased the mortality rate of the world. While plumbers played a major part in that role, so did engineers and government agencies who mandated the changes. If the entire world was brought up to the standards we plumb to today we might wipe out much of the premature deaths and diseases in the third world countries as well. If you want some interesting reading Google project which are trying to get clean drinking water to these back areas of third world countries.

As for old-school I know pipestone kid has 20-years on me and has probably had his hands on fixing a little bit of everything. I also know he is a highly respected member of this site and would not intentionally offend anyone.

Who started all this anyway? LOL
If you look at what I said in the 1st post, I don't think anyone has actually answered the question I asked, but thats ok, I enjoy hearing from everyone. And your right, lets keep it positive. thanks everyone.

I'm guessing the term Unlicensed Plumber is something the Unions came up with as most licensing started with the Unions. The requirements to hold a Plumbing License differ from area to area so being an Unlicensed Plumber does not really mean anything in some areas as there is no licensing by the State. In California for instance the owner of the shop must hold a Contractors License but because there is no Journeyman or Masters licensing his employees do not have to hold cards. He is however, responsible for any work that they do.

Mark

"Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

Comment

Mark, as far as I can see, there's no insult on a personal level beyond the initial jab at NH, nor an insinuation that home builders take second dibs to plumbers or that plumbing is better than any other trade, no reference to how plumbing was here first, no personal insults sent Pipestones way barring his interpretation of finding a different forum to vent about plumbers as opposed to here, I can't imagine he expected warm replies.

As I'm sure you recall, this section was Keith's brainchild, he wanted a place for us, licensed plumbers, and Ridgid was kind enough to take his suggestion.

I can only imagine the fireworks if he were here now. (inject dark humor)

Beyond that, nothing has really been intended as personal, barring the jab that initiated the exchange, comments of that kind can induce a sense of inhibition for any licensed plumber that might feel proud of a job or want to vent their angst over their day who may instead garnish his language to suit the desires of non plumbers.