I'm an i-don't-care-ist. To me it is something that is unknowable and there are many other things that command my attention like pretty chicks.

That's actually the definition of an agnostic.

Myself, although I identify with a Christian belief system and attend a mainline church, would describe my personal thoughts on the subject of God as agnostic deism. An agnostic deist has faith that there is a God, but believes that God's nature is unknowable. In other words, religion is our best attempt to define something beyond our comprehension. It's not perfect, it's not infallible, but it does have value. It would be nice if people on all sides of the religious debate stopped worrying so much about being right and honestly listened to each other.

It would be nice if people on all sides of the religious debate stopped worrying so much about being right and honestly listened to each other.

Yeppo on that one AndyC.

To be honest, that bus is less insulting than what the British did to us after the Olympics:

To those not in the know, this is a take on an infamous Australian advertising campaign of 'Where the bloody hell are you?' and the idea was to stick it in after beating us in the medal tally. Just a bit of fun, but still

Ha, someone should have pointed out to The Sun that there are three times as many people living in the UK as in Australia, so by that rights the fact it was a close medal race instead of the UK tripling Australia's count speaks volumes right there.

Ha, someone should have pointed out to The Sun that there are three times as many people living in the UK as in Australia, so by that rights the fact it was a close medal race instead of the UK tripling Australia's count speaks volumes right there.

Yeah, it's not as if there was a wide gap, and 14 is certainly nothing to sneeze at. "Where the bloody hell were you" hardly makes sense. If the count was unexpectedly low, and the team was performing below its potential, then that joke would work. Either way, rubbing another country's nose in it is not what the Olympics are supposed to be about.

...Myself, although I identify with a Christian belief system and attend a mainline church, would describe my personal thoughts on the subject of God as agnostic deism. An agnostic deist has faith that there is a God, but believes that God's nature is unknowable. In other words, religion is our best attempt to define something beyond our comprehension. It's not perfect, it's not infallible, but it does have value. It would be nice if people on all sides of the religious debate stopped worrying so much about being right and honestly listened to each other.

I think the statement is not an Atheist's statement. Atheism is as much a conviction as Protestantism, for example. The word "probably" here is simply not presumptuous. Who could say for certaintly that the "unknowable" like quarks or nanoseconds exist...? An educated person should take the same polite concern with matters of faith.

I do not believe there is a god, I do believe there is some form of afterlife though. I tend not to get involved in topics about religion, money or politics as they always lead to arguements/points that no one will ever come to agreement on and are the three main sources of all the world's problems.

I think the statement is not an Atheist's statement. Atheism is as much a conviction as Protestantism, for example. The word "probably" here is simply not presumptuous. Who could say for certaintly that the "unknowable" like quarks or nanoseconds exist...? An educated person should take the same polite concern with matters of faith.

Subatomic particles and measurements of time are far from unknowables. Perhaps someone could extrapolate that subatomic particles are a matter of perception and involve a certain amount of faith in the acceptance of that perception, but that's rather stretching it as well.

Of course, faith and education are contrary. To know something belies having faith in it. To have faith is to have conviction without any direct evidence.

Interesting that the use of the one word 'probably' suggests a lack of conviction whereas both christians and atheists both have it.

To be honest, that bus is less insulting than what the British did to us after the Olympics:

To those not in the know, this is a take on an infamous Australian advertising campaign of 'Where the bloody hell are you?' and the idea was to stick it in after beating us in the medal tally. Just a bit of fun, but still

I had no interest in the Olympics, I did however see one Australian sports reporter slagging off Britain on SkySports. Our reporters always remained professional at all times and never once resorted to point scoring. Anyway, the point is The Sun is cheap tat, they make up 90% of their stories and spread lies and filth. Plus, I'm not patriotic at all.

Interesting that the use of the one word 'probably' suggests a lack of conviction whereas both christians and atheists both have it.

I suppose it's meant to be a more moderate position, or perhaps more difficult to reject out of hand. "I don't know, but I'm leaning toward this position." Or somebody wouldn't allow it without the probably added to make it less offensive to religious folks (like that would work).

Of course, painting your own position as the moderate one and your opponent's as extreme is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

I do, in a way, agree with the message. Religion should enrich your life, not interfere with your enjoyment of it. And part of the problem is that a lot of us have kind of a childish view of God as "Dad," who keeps track of whether we do what we're supposed to be doing, gets mad if he catches us fooling around (and he always knows), hands out punishment and rewards, and might do us a favour if we ask real nice. That picture of God is what so many people are finding easy to reject, and they paint all faithful people with the same brush. Unfortunately, the folks with the concept of God that is hardest to swallow are the ones most determined to shove it down people's throats.

It's a problem I'm wrestling with as my daughter gets old enough to understand what's going on at church. I want to avoid giving her that image George Carlin talked about, of an invisible man who lives in the sky, and provide a more open-minded view. At the same time, the open-minded view is hard to put in a way kids will understand. That's probably why the childlike view of invisible uber-Dad is so prevalent. It's easy for kids to understand, but few people move beyond it when they grow up. They either keep believing exactly the same thing, or they reject it as silly and irrational.

...Subatomic particles and measurements of time are far from unknowables. Perhaps someone could extrapolate that subatomic particles are a matter of perception and involve a certain amount of faith in the acceptance of that perception, but that's rather stretching it as well.

Well, I mean unknowable in a personal, immediate sense. What evidence do we see around us that we also readily understand as resulting from, say, the vibration of subatomic particles? Of course Science offers answers, as does Faith.

"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge