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Just to clarify, I'm not going to ask any insulting, trolling or inflammatory questions, so don't bother sending them to me.

The two questions I have so far that I like are on the safety of hydrinos and if they are going to focus on boiler development.

I'm also going to get a more detailed response on how they are going to deal with the heat removal from the PV panel.

Oh so he's not running a business huh? He is doing that using other people's money - just ask him if he is running a business. Asking someone who been running a business for thirty years - with no success at all - to see his books and view how he has allocated money received is normal, nay required.

That would be FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission), not FCC; a quick Google hasn't turned up anything obvious (to me) about what sorts of certificates (if any) they'd required for selling generators, or what sorts of reviews/certifications are needed by those using the generators. Then there's various state-level public utilities commissions, with their regulations, but again I don't know enough about regulatory agencies or the power industry to Google up anything useful. However, I'm sure they'd all be very interested in a generator that produces a brand new type of gas which hasn't undergone any medical or environmental testing.

I'll ask him about safety concerns, but given that Mills theory says the hydrino is nothing more than a hydrogen atom, and given that there are no apparent ill effects from the testing done so far, I don't think any regulatory agencies will do anything beyond the standard safety mandates that are required for any other kind of generator.

Mills theory does not say the hydrino is a novel type of gas so far as the universe is concerned. According to Mills theory, the universe is full of hydrino gas.

That would be FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission), not FCC; a quick Google hasn't turned up anything obvious (to me) about what sorts of certificates (if any) they'd required for selling generators, or what sorts of reviews/certifications are needed by those using the generators. Then there's various state-level public utilities commissions, with their regulations, but again I don't know enough about regulatory agencies or the power industry to Google up anything useful. However, I'm sure they'd all be very interested in a generator that produces a brand new type of gas which hasn't undergone any medical or environmental testing.

But the company that stands to profit from producing the gas and venting it into the atmosphere INSISTS it's inert!

Even though a few years ago they were talking about the commercial uses of compounds made using the gas...

I'll ask him about safety concerns, but given that Mills theory says the hydrino is nothing more than a hydrogen atom,

It's a hydrogen atom in a state below the ordinary ground state of hydrogen, something that's completely different than hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. Not only that, but it's an atom with a fractional energy state, something completely different from all atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. If it's not inert like helium, it will react differently than ordinary hydrogen, and according to this patent by Mills hydrinos aren't inert. So how will hydrino atoms react to the myriad of different molecules present in terrestrial life?

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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline

It's a hydrogen atom in a state below the ordinary ground state of hydrogen, something that's completely different than hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. Not only that, but it's an atom with a fractional energy state, something completely different from all atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. If it's not inert like helium, it will react differently than ordinary hydrogen, and according to this patent by Mills hydrinos aren't inert. So how will hydrino atoms react to the myriad of different molecules present in terrestrial life?

It would rather suck if this revolutionary new power source were to wipe out every living thing on the planet that might have a use for it, wouldn't it? Talk about being counterproductive.

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I'll ask him about safety concerns, but given that Mills theory says the hydrino is nothing more than a hydrogen atom, and given that there are no apparent ill effects from the testing done so far, I don't think any regulatory agencies will do anything beyond the standard safety mandates that are required for any other kind of generator.

BLP is in New Jersey, not far from Princeton. NJ regulators tend to be rather hard-nosed, and likely would demand rather more than whatever Mills' theory might, or might not, say re hydrinos and hydrogen. Maybe you could ask him what environmental and safety applications, proposals, etc he has made to the various, relevant, NJ authorities, since he started experimenting in NJ?

If I am not mistaken, the BLP facility would very likely be classed as something like an experimental chemical lab, something which definitely needs permits.

Quote:

Mills theory does not say the hydrino is a novel type of gas so far as the universe is concerned. According to Mills theory, the universe is full of hydrino gas.

Indeed.

Something the relevant NJ regulators would certainly take into consideration ... but as there are, as of today, no specific rules re hydrinos, and in cases like this, they tend to prefer to check for themselves.

Just to clarify, I'm not going to ask any insulting, trolling or inflammatory questions, so don't bother sending them to me. I'm also not looking for questions that Mills has repeatedly answered already in his public demonstration videos.

I think that michaelsuede is right not to question Mills about his business practices. That is a quick way to get on BLP's ignore list. After all, they are able to find enough people who are unwilling to question them so why should they bother with those who do?

(Anyone asking those questions is most likely not gullible enough to become a BLP investor.)

Mills theory does not say the hydrino is a novel type of gas so far as the universe is concerned. According to Mills theory, the universe is full of hydrino gas.

The universe is full of lots of things you wouldn't want emitted anywhere in the county where you live. X-rays, gamma rays, cosmic rays, stellar coronal mass ejection particle storms, vast clouds of carbon monoxide, black holes...

1. Why not issue a public invitation to some prestigious scientists to come to the NJ facility to verify the excess energy production?

Assuming it's valid, I don't expect Mills to be able to fully explain everything. It's taken science hundreds of iterations to get to where we are right now. But the excess energy - it either exists, or it doesn't. And if it does, the explanation as to how seems far less important.

Even if they refuse, it shows they are not trying to hide something and puts the ball in the other person's court. If they do verify the excess energy, it would absolutely blow up on world news, and I'm pretty sure they'd have thousands of the brightest minds in the world willing to drop everything and assist in solving whatever problems there are with the prototype, for free.

Before the first functional prototype works he is already talking buildouts? Really? And you don't find that suspicious at all?

__________________Scott
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It's a hydrogen atom in a state below the ordinary ground state of hydrogen, something that's completely different than hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. Not only that, but it's an atom with a fractional energy state, something completely different from all atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. If it's not inert like helium, it will react differently than ordinary hydrogen, and according to this patent by Mills hydrinos aren't inert. So how will hydrino atoms react to the myriad of different molecules present in terrestrial life?

I would say that according to you, this is something that's completely different than the hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life.

I would say that according to you, this is something that's completely different than the hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life.

According to Mills, not so much.

How are they not different? According to Mills' patent, compounds made with hydrinos have novel properties, different than if made with ordinary hydrogen. If hydrinos behave chemically differentially enough to make compounds with novel properties, why wouldn't they interact with terrestrial biochemistry differently as well?

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BLP is in New Jersey, not far from Princeton. NJ regulators tend to be rather hard-nosed, and likely would demand rather more than whatever Mills' theory might, or might not, say re hydrinos and hydrogen. Maybe you could ask him what environmental and safety applications, proposals, etc he has made to the various, relevant, NJ authorities, since he started experimenting in NJ?

If I am not mistaken, the BLP facility would very likely be classed as something like an experimental chemical lab, something which definitely needs permits.

Indeed.

Something the relevant NJ regulators would certainly take into consideration ... but as there are, as of today, no specific rules re hydrinos, and in cases like this, they tend to prefer to check for themselves.

And again, many if not all of these permits are supposed to be public knowledge. Hell, every restaurant is required to publicly post their food handling permits as well as regular kitchen inspections, etc.

Even when I was a public notary for the state of Washington, I was required by law to conspicuously display my notary license.

Where are Mills' laboratory inspection licenses and permits and such? Which governing body issued them and what specifically do they cover?

And what about insurance? Doesn't a laboratory need specialized insurance as well? I know that's part of the operating expenses, but still.

How about corporate tax filings? Does anyone know if they'd be required to be publicly accessible too or not?

I would say that according to you, this is something that's completely different than the hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life.

According to Mills, not so much.

Really? I thought Mills claimed hydrinos were dark matter?

How can it be both effectively the same and completely different form of matter at the same time?

You sure you are representing Mills correctly?

__________________Scott
"Permaculture is a philosophy of working﻿ with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill MollisonBiome Carbon Cycle Management

Why did they start with the PV design? Why not concentrate on first getting the reactor done, sell reactor for use in heating and powering steam engines, then use the profits from those sales to research how to do the PV version?

We've been through this before. Among other things, cPV cells are an elegant solution. Lots of money has been invested in their development to date. And it's only a matter of time before cPV will be harvesting in the infrared as well. Efficiencies are going to improve, greatly.

1) Why did they start with the PV design? Why not concentrate on first getting the reactor done, sell reactor for use in heating and powering steam engines, then use the profits from those sales to research how to do the PV version?

2) Has BLP had any discussions with the EPA or other governmental regulatory agencies to make sure that sales of the devices aren't put on hold while biological/medical/environmental research is done into short term and long term exposure to hydrinos? Or does Mills think that the fact that none of the researchers exposed for years to hydrinos means that regulatory agencies will give the greenlight to sales without any clinical research/experiments being done?

Seeing that I think with high probability there was not a massive amount of researcher falling pregnant and staying exposed to "hydrino" nor did willingly researcher expose themselves, that would still leave terratogenic effect study, and long term effect study to do.

(From Hecd2) If hydrinos emit photons then they can't be Dark Matter can they? More inconsistency. and if they do then they's be readily detected and we wouldn't be having this discussion about their (non-)existence.

The 21cm line spin-flip photon from neutral H readily penetrates our atmosphere and is easily detected. The same cannot be said of hydrino H(1/p) or dihydrino H2(1/p), both of which have much smaller wavelengths for spin-flip and ro-vibrational emissions. Also, emission is improbable unless they are under appropriate stimulation. But, such emission has been observed in the lab. Don't know if it has been looked for in satellite data.

Quote:

But you were replying to a comment which made the point that a laser which can operate from the far-infrared to the ultraviolet using fractional states of hydrogen as a lasing medium, as claime in Mills's patent application, would require hydrinos to emit photons in those wavelengths. Then you claimed that hydrinos don't emit photons from electron energy level transitions but do from rovibrational transitions. More inconsistency because you aren't going to get visible and ultraviolet photons from rovibrational transitions of molecular hydrogen.

Sure they will. It depends on the value of p in H2(1/p). Higher the p, the higher the photon energy released.

From a BLP patent I just glossed over:

"The opportunity exists to replace a FEL that occupies the size of a large building with a table-top laser based on vibration-rotational-state inversion of H2(1/13) that can lase in the desired 10 to 14 nm range."

Welcome to the GUTCP, which is actually predictive. However, getting hydrino to the 1/13th state would be no easy affair afaik.

The 21cm line spin-flip photon from neutral H readily penetrates our atmosphere and is easily detected. The same cannot be said of hydrino H(1/p) or dihydrino H2(1/p), both of which have much smaller wavelengths for spin-flip and ro-vibrational emissions. Also, emission is improbable unless they are under appropriate stimulation. But, such emission has been observed in the lab. Don't know if it has been looked for in satellite data.

A lot has been looked for. Plus we have observation in wavelength which should detect whatever "Hydrino" production there should be, do you really think we are only observing the visible or what's left coming to earth, or what ? Look up XMM or a more well known Chandra.

We've been through this before. Among other things, cPV cells are an elegant solution. Lots of money has been invested in their development to date. And it's only a matter of time before cPV will be harvesting in the infrared as well. Efficiencies are going to improve, greatly.

Which has what to do with Mill's generators? Remember they are going to be built with commercially available cells:

Quote:

.... facilitate the production of electricity using commercially-available concentrator photovoltaic cells...

Brilliant Light Power has developed a new commercially competitive, non-polluting, plasma-based primary source of massive power from the conversion of hydrogen atoms of water molecules to dark matter, the previously unidentified matter that makes up most of the mass of the universe. The SunCell® that was invented to harness the new power source catalytically converts hydrogen directly into dark matter form called Hydrino® releasing brilliant high-energy light which is down-converted in energy to facilitate the production of electricity using commercially-available concentrator photovoltaic cells.

Brilliant Light Power has developed a new commercially competitive, non-polluting, plasma-based primary source of massive power from the conversion of hydrogen atoms of water molecules to dark matter, the previously unidentified matter that makes up most of the mass of the universe. The SunCell® that was invented to harness the new power source catalytically converts hydrogen directly into dark matter form called Hydrino® releasing brilliant high-energy light which is down-converted in energy to facilitate the production of electricity using commercially-available concentrator photovoltaic cells.

I'll ask him about safety concerns, but given that Mills theory says the hydrino is nothing more than a hydrogen atom, and given that there are no apparent ill effects from the testing done so far, I don't think any regulatory agencies will do anything beyond the standard safety mandates that are required for any other kind of generator.

Mills theory does not say the hydrino is a novel type of gas so far as the universe is concerned. According to Mills theory, the universe is full of hydrino gas.

You should ask him whether he's interested in working with Cyclone Power Technologies in order to produce a steam-powered car. It would make his SunCell technology tens of times more efficient and save him millions in development costs as it would make the development of a photovoltaic version redundant. Given that they've got a proven track record and contracts already in place it should help him with the business side, too, and he should be able to pay his investors back very soon.

And the sheer amount of heat that the SunCell produces should make their engines even quicker and more efficient, so they will undoubtedly jump at the chance of improving their engines further.

Yeah, as in they can use an active system that's far more compact and efficient at removing waste heat. I'm not sure how you could possibly interpret that statement to mean I said they were using passive cooling.

Throwing away energy doesn't matter when it costs next to nothing to produce. Who cares? Cooling solutions exist that can deal with the heat.

That said, the first use of the reactor in a production environment will be for heating water according to the latest BrLP timeline.

The commercially available cells will be operating at incident power densities more than 230 times their design level. And you handwave it away. True Believer.

1. Why not issue a public invitation to some prestigious scientists to come to the NJ facility to verify the excess energy production?

Because it doesn't validate anything. What do you think a few scientists observing someone else running their own kit in their own facility can do in the way of validation? The most they could ever say is that as far as they could see there appears to be an anomalous production of heat. I have personally done technical due diligence on behalf of potential invetors in start-ups, so I know how these things go. James Randi himself showed how easy it is to pull the wool over observers' eyes.

The only way for scientists to validate is doing it themselves with their kit in their facilities, accounting themselves for all the potential sources of energy production. Or for BLP to launch a successful product that does what it claims.

You should ask him whether he's interested in working with Cyclone Power Technologies in order to produce a steam-powered car. It would make his SunCell technology tens of times more efficient and save him millions in development costs as it would make the development of a photovoltaic version redundant. Given that they've got a proven track record and contracts already in place it should help him with the business side, too, and he should be able to pay his investors back very soon.

And the sheer amount of heat that the SunCell produces should make their engines even quicker and more efficient, so they will undoubtedly jump at the chance of improving their engines further.

But really we are right back at the beginning.

If it can produce so much heat why isn't he continuing with the development of an electrical generator?

It simply makes no sense given his claims to "just" produce a water heater. If his generator works - without "ignition" energy (soon have that engineered out) - he could have a working electrical generator within literally weeks. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are "commercially available" steam turbines he could attach!

Looking at his almost 3 decades of claims he seems to have a huge blindspot in regards to using well developed technology to generate electricity from a heat source.

Time and time again he claims to have a heat generator, yet never seems to be able to hook that up with a steam driven turbine to produce electrical energy.

The 21cm line spin-flip photon from neutral H readily penetrates our atmosphere and is easily detected. The same cannot be said of hydrino H(1/p) or dihydrino H2(1/p), both of which have much smaller wavelengths for spin-flip and ro-vibrational emissions. Also, emission is improbable unless they are under appropriate stimulation. But, such emission has been observed in the lab. Don't know if it has been looked for in satellite data.

Well astronomers look across a huge range of wavelengths from 100m radio wavelengths to gamma.

ETA: the 21cm transition is also improbable as it is highly forbidden with a lifetime for the excited state of several million years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hecd2

But you were replying to a comment which made the point that a laser which can operate from the far-infrared to the ultraviolet using fractional states of hydrogen as a lasing medium, as claime in Mills's patent application, would require hydrinos to emit photons in those wavelengths. Then you claimed that hydrinos don't emit photons from electron energy level transitions but do from rovibrational transitions. More inconsistency because you aren't going to get visible and ultraviolet photons from rovibrational transitions of molecular hydrogen.

Sure they will. It depends on the value of p in H2(1/p). Higher the p, the higher the photon energy released.

From a BLP patent I just glossed over:

"The opportunity exists to replace a FEL that occupies the size of a large building with a table-top laser based on vibration-rotational-state inversion of H2(1/13) that can lase in the desired 10 to 14 nm range."

Welcome to the GUTCP, which is actually predictive. However, getting hydrino to the 1/13th state would be no easy affair afaik.

So you are telling us that the GUTCP predicts rovibrational transitions at 88eV? The vibrational transition of ground state molecular hydrogen is about 2.2microns and the rotational transitions are in the mid IR at 12 to 28 microns. They are weak quadrupolar transitions as the hydrogen molecule has zero electric dipole. I have no idea how you are going to select for the population inversion. So you'll excuse me if I remain skeptical of a laser based on this idea until one is produced.

What's more Mills claims that there is a huge quantity of fractional state hydrogen in the universe. Shouldn't we be detecting all these rovibrational transitions across the spectrum. We see spin-flip hydrogen 21cm in astronomy, and the transition is used terrestrially in a hydrogen maser. But this fractional state hydrogen constitutes four or five times more matter in than all the currently detected visible matter according to Mills and it radates across the spectrum apparently. So why don't we see it?

If it can produce so much heat why isn't he continuing with the development of an electrical generator?

Apparently he is. The photovoltaic development is now for cars, because the stuff you need outside of the generator itself is too big and bulky to work properly with cars.

Luckily for Mills, the people at Cyclone Power Technologies appear to have not only cracked that, but have actual manufacturing contracts with various companies and the military. So by partnering with them Mills can achieve his dream of using SunCell technology to power vehicles, can make the design much more efficient, can save himself and his investors a lot of time and money by abandoning research on the photovoltaic approach, and immediately has lots of customers ready and waiting to give him money.

Honestly, if michaelsuede doesn't bring it up to Mills, then he's doing him a huge disservice.

Where are they going to store all that excess energy? Is it just going to be dumped into the atmosphere as heat?

The thermal footprint of the generator being described is probably orders of magnitude higher than the fuel sources it's supposedly going to replace.

Environmentally, we'd do better to stick with the current energy tech and improve carbon dioxide processing than to deploy the inefficient, heat-belching monstrosities Mills is trying to produce. We don't even know what Hydrinos DO in the environment, yet the people standing to benefit from churning them out seem to be dodging efforts at safety research.

That would be FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission), not FCC....

No, I had the FCC in mind. However, looking a bit closer at part 15, it is not all electronic/electrical devices, just those with a potential to emit RF or interfere with RF transmissions that come under FCC jurisdiction. Inverters for the photo-voltaic cells would, but they'd be separable from Mill's invention I guess.

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"The opportunity exists to replace a FEL that occupies the size of a large building with a table-top laser based on vibration-rotational-state inversion of H2(1/13) that can lase in the desired 10 to 14 nm range."

Welcome to the GUTCP, which is actually predictive. However, getting hydrino to the 1/13th state would be no easy affair afaik.

Wow, isn't that amazing? Here's Mills, yet again poised to revolutionize yet another major industry, except, oh, gee, sorry, there's this convenient excuse for why this new technology has never actually come to market.....

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How can it be both effectively the same and completely different form of matter at the same time?

You sure you are representing Mills correctly?

I really can't grock this idea that `his' hydrogen is completely the same, yet completely different to `normal' hydrogen

Today I was looking at a display of carbon, affixed to a noble metal band- very sparkly and quite expensive (very!!!)
I also cleaned off and stored my bbq as summer has finished, resulting in quite an impressive pile of carbon

I do not think that giving someone `any old' form of carbon will give the same results, give a special someone the first form of carbon, and much joy and happyness (and crying) follows
Give her the second, and its likely she wont be around after that much.....

And thats just two types of `known' carbon

What properties has his `special' hydrogen have?- is it equally as safe as normal hydrogen? Safer? Less safe???

Until it's been tested, I'd be very wary about being too blasé with it- after all the `original' hydrogen is still quite powerful stuff in sufficient quantities to be quite dangerous, and although I could even make it myself quite simply (high school students do it every day somewhere in the world I expect) if I decided to turn a couple of thousand litres of water into hydrogen, the authorities would be (quite rightly) interested in my storage methods and safety regime

So I seriously doubt that his labs would simply be allowed to `fly under the radar' so to speak if they are producing a relatively rare and new version of it- introducing a unknown new chemical would (I imagine) be something that would involve much testing and checking of its safety- I would think something like that would be very tightly controlled in case its not quite as inert as he seems to think it is

Just in case this below ground state of hydrogen is kinda like a form of `hydrogen 9' so to speak

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Originally Posted by michaelsuede

I'll ask him about safety concerns, but given that Mills theory says the hydrino is nothing more than a hydrogen atom, and given that there are no apparent ill effects from the testing done so far, I don't think any regulatory agencies will do anything beyond the standard safety mandates that are required for any other kind of generator.

Mills theory does not say the hydrino is a novel type of gas so far as the universe is concerned. According to Mills theory, the universe is full of hydrino gas.

Hydrogen is perfectly safe...

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Especially when streaming out of vent system from a superheated dome with a temperature WELL beyond its ignition point.

Perfectly Safe(r)(tm)*

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The 21cm line spin-flip photon from neutral H readily penetrates our atmosphere and is easily detected. The same cannot be said of hydrino H(1/p) or dihydrino H2(1/p), both of which have much smaller wavelengths for spin-flip and ro-vibrational emissions.