Friday, February 04, 2011

During the L.A. Lakers' 114-106 overtime win versus the Houston Rockets on Tuesday night, Kobe Bryant joined the exclusive 25,000 point/5000 rebound/5000 assist club. Unfortunately, every media account of this accomplishment that I have seen disregarded the fact that Julius Erving accomplished this feat; Erving played five of his 16 professional seasons in the ABA and it is a travesty that the NBA still refuses to admit that ABA Numbers Should Also Count, a point that I have been emphasizing for the better part of a decade (and it sure would be nice if some media members who have been fortunate enough to be blessed with a larger platform than I currently have would use that influence constructively to make that point as well).

Here is the real membership list of the 25,000/5000/5000 Club (in order of career points scored):

Thanks David -- it really is a shame that no one else with a media platform seems to care about or remember the ABA.

Somewhat off-topic, here is an excellent site that I am sure you would enjoy, to which Gil actually posted a link over at Tucker's blog (Silver Screen & Roll):

http://skepticalsports.com

And here is a specific post evaluating several of the flaws in player evaluation metrics such as PER:

http://skepticalsports.com/?p=1117

I think you would enjoy his brand of statistical analysis, as it appears much more scientific (i.e., recognizing error rates, based on testing and analyzing results, all while also recognizing many of the "inputs" are flawed and not measured accurately or at all, etc).

Someone provided that link in another comment thread here. Skeptical Sports seems to be on the right track and certainly makes some valid criticisms of Hollinger's PER but Berri's WoW methods are at least as flawed as Hollinger's, though in a different way; Hollinger seems to overvalue scoring, while Berri overvalues rebounding and does not appreciate the importance of being able to create shots for oneself and one's teammates.

dr j grabbed 10,000 boards scored 30,000 points didnt kno that i thought he was just a great dunker before my time tho. people used to say he was mj before mj but i thought it was more oscar robertson than him. but i casme up with mike, kobe those guys shaq i kno bird and magic impact dr was pretty good maybe top 15 players ever. but kobe is better than him i believe and mj as well, but good correction espn dont do they job

Another great milestone for Kobe. In the playoffs I'll be keeping an eye out for Kobe's 45th assist, which will admit him to the playoff analog of the 25,000/5000/5000 Club: the 5000/1000/1000 Club. Michael Jordan currently stands alone in that club.

That is a good point. Except for single game and career scoring, it seems like playoff records do not carry the same fascination or attract the same attention that regular season records do. Bryant's impending ascension to the 5000/1000/1000 Club is a testament not only to his versatility and durability but also to the fact that he has led his teams to a lot of postseason success, because playoff games are earned only by advancing from round to round.

I agree with including ABA stats in the caeere numbers of NBA players. Remember that the NBA accepted several ABA teams in the 1976 merger, so why not the stats that came with them? Also, why did the NBA accept BAA and NBL stats from the 1949 merger, but not ABA stats? Seems like a double standard.

I was born in the 1940's. My dad was a pro-b-ball fanatic (very knowledgeable; knew/followed Mikan & all the pre-NBA stars). We lived in New Jersey and got NYC TV stations (all 3 of them, with some 8 hours a night off-air; showing "test patterns"). I started watching the NBA in 1957; every game that was televised.

My dad's (& my) 3 biggest complaints against the NBA Officialdom:

1) Failure to recognize & include NBL stats (the NBL played in smaller markets but had better teams than the pre-merger BAA);

2)Same as "1)" for the ABA (how we hate that the top 5-10 ABA-ers get penalized for those years);

3) Overestimation of Russell and Underestimation of Wilt. This was exemplified by the MVP voting (where Russell got 2 MVPs (1961, 1962) when Wilt got All-NBA 1st Teams both years).

Wilt pretty much dominated Russell in their 140 face-to-face meetings. In our opinion, Wilt dominated HIS era MORE than any player since has dominated his. (Only Mikan dominated more; but that was in the pre-integration days; so counts for less).

Those are three excellent points. I agree with you completely about the NBL and the ABA. The Chamberlain-Russell rivalry is fascinating on many levels. It is interesting to speculate what might have happened if Chamberlain had played for the Celtics and/or Russell had played for the various teams that employed Chamberlain.

Every Spectacular move by MJ, Dr.J did in the 1970's. The shot on Craig Elo look at Dr.J's shot over Bobby Jones in ABA championship game. To think that MJ is better than Doc is crazy. There was no ESPN back in Doc's day. The rock the cradle look at first ABA Dunk Contest in 1976. So when we say Mt.Rushmore Doc must be up there. If the fricken TV would show Dr. J with an AFRO people would get a bettet perspective. Do they show MJ as a Wizard No but they Show Doc with a low Cut.

About Me

"A work of art contains its verification in itself: artificial, strained concepts do not withstand the test of being turned into images; they fall to pieces, turn out to be sickly and pale, convince no one. Works which draw on truth and present it to us in live and concentrated form grip us, compellingly involve us, and no one ever, not even ages hence, will come forth to refute them."--Alexander Solzhenitsyn (Nobel Lecture)

"The most 'popular,' the most 'successful' writers among us (for a brief period, at least) are, 99 times out of a hundred, persons of mere effrontery--in a word, busy-bodies, toadies, quacks."--Edgar Allan Poe

"In chess what counts is what you know, not whom you know. It's the way life is supposed to be, democratic and just."--Grandmaster Larry Evans

"It's not nuclear physics. You always remember that. But if you write about sports long enough, you're constantly coming back to the point that something buoys people; something makes you feel better for having been there. Something of value is at work there...Something is hallowed here. I think that something is excellence."--Tom Callahan