I don't have a problem with Hurney at all. It isn't personal or anything. I have a problem with poorly built teams who lose. It just so happens that Hurney has built those teams. We lucked out big time on Cam. Good QB play hides a lot of issues. And to a lesser extent pass rush. But we don't need that because it isn't part of the scheme. It isn't like the Bears and Chargers had good pass rush.

From what I can gather after all the tangents here, you are lamenting the omission of DT from our off-season plans. You think the D-line is horrible and was a first need. That was countered by folks saying that Rivera is more than capable with evaluating his personnel and that he has crafted top notch defenses in two different schemes in very small windows. Those defenses had vast improvements under his oversight. He is now in charge of our situation and said earlier this year that he isn't concerned about adding to the DT position. That was verified by what we saw in the draft. There was a DE added who might turn out to be an impact player, but overall he is sticking with his statements. You don't seem to be satisfied with that, yet cannot back it up with showing examples of Rivera failing to field a quality Defense. I agree with you in not wanting a poorly built team. Only problem is I don't see Rivera making bad personnel moves even if he hasn't added to the DT position.

From what I can gather after all the tangents here, you are lamenting the omission of DT from our off-season plans. You think the D-line is horrible and was a first need. That was countered by folks saying that Rivera is more than capable with evaluating his personnel and that he has crafted top notch defenses in two different schemes in very small windows. Those defenses had vast improvements under his oversight. He is now in charge of our situation and said earlier this year that he isn't concerned about adding to the DT position. That was verified by what we saw in the draft. There was a DE added who might turn out to be an impact player, but overall he is sticking with his statements. You don't seem to be satisfied with that, yet cannot back it up with showing examples of Rivera failing to field a quality Defense. I agree with you in not wanting a poorly built team. Only problem is I don't see Rivera making bad personnel moves even if he hasn't added to the DT position.

Good post. You did a good job summing up how I mostly feel. I did like the Alexander pick up, but not the lose of the future 3rd. I'm not willing to get down on it to much because I feel we can't have too many pass rushers. And if he becomes one, great. If he doesn't fine, but at least the the team is being built the right way. The right way to build a team is though Elite QB, and Elite Pass Rush. I've said that at least five times this week and no one has even attempted to dispute me on this a little, so I think most everyone agrees with that on some level.

Now several posters say we will have success because Rivera has had success in two other places. That is pretty logical, but it is also true of all coaches to have had success elsewhere. They say he didn't have DT's at his other stops which isn't true because he had more than adequate DT's and more importantly a good pass rush. So what this particular tangent comes down to is they have more faith in Rivera having a good defense than I have faith in the ability to generate a pass rush without a good D-line.

Everything I've read says that this is exactly what "we" didn't do...The Cam pick was a product of the staff doing it's homework and fully evaluating Cam without buying into all of the BS floating around. They took the chance, but characterizing it as "lucked out big time" seems to be a way of withholding praise for our staff for basically pulling the trigger on a player that could transform the franchise in the face of a large volume of criticism and opinions to the contrary. They said they felt fully confident with the pick, and it panned out. The "luck" wasn't something they received, it's something everyone else who considers themselves a fan and hated the pick received.

Everything I've read says that this is exactly what "we" didn't do...The Cam pick was a product of the staff doing it's homework and fully evaluating Cam without buying into all of the BS floating around. They took the chance, but characterizing it as "lucked out big time" seems to be a way of withholding praise for our staff for basically pulling the trigger on a player that could transform the franchise in the face of a large volume of criticism and opinions to the contrary. They said they felt fully confident with the pick, and it panned out. The "luck" wasn't something they received, it's something everyone else who considers themselves a fan and hated the pick received.

What I mean by lucked out was that we got a QB of Cam quality, a QB that hides a lot of issues we have by keeping us in games and giving us a chance to win. I loved the pick for the record. Anytime you get Elite QB play, you have a chance to win. I had the user name Punisher, and the biggest point I pushed for Cam was QB's dont have the same learning curve that they use too. I'm willing to admit the Newton pick was a gamble, but I knew it was one that had to be made. Please don't think of me as a guy who didn't want Newton. They were annoying to me.

Good post. You did a good job summing up how I mostly feel. I did like the Alexander pick up, but not the lose of the future 3rd. I'm not willing to get down on it to much because I feel we can't have too many pass rushers. And if he becomes one, great. If he doesn't fine, but at least the the team is being built the right way. The right way to build a team is though Elite QB, and Elite Pass Rush. I've said that at least five times this week and no one has even attempted to dispute me on this a little, so I think most everyone agrees with that on some level.

Now several posters say we will have success because Rivera has had success in two other places. That is pretty logical, but it is also true of all coaches to have had success elsewhere. They say he didn't have DT's at his other stops which isn't true because he had more than adequate DT's and more importantly a good pass rush. So what this particular tangent comes down to is they have more faith in Rivera having a good defense than I have faith in the ability to generate a pass rush without a good D-line.

We didn't "lose" a future 3rd round pick. We took it this year instead of next. We "lost" our 9th pick in the 6th round. Considering that we speculated our draft position will move down the line next year if we improve as a team, it's close to giving up a few positions in draft order overall and cutting loose a 6th round pick to do so...all indications point to this happening because of Joe Adams.

Please don't think of me as a guy who didn't want Newton. They were annoying to me.

Fair enough...then you understand why "lucked out" wasn't the appropriate way to describe the pick. I really think the full staff (FO, scouts and coaches) was on board despite the negative assessments.

we got what was needed live with it let the team do there kind of magic they can be the best this is what we live for to put the carolinas on the map we have had a hard time but a true fan still belives in there team win or lose its yours your team im proude to be a fan love this team win or lose shes in my back yard go panthers and gamecocks

Back to Nortman, I was somewhat disappointed because I wanted a big legged boomer at Punter, and I think that's exactly what Butler is. However, after some research and thought, Nortman may actually be the better pick. No, his leg isn't as powerful as Butler's, but he does have a lot of control on his punts (which is why I think the team chose him over Butler). He gets good hang time, but he is also very skilled at the placement of the punt...and that's somewhat of a lost art. He also has punted in pretty much any condition in which a football game can be played. Now, that may not be a big deal in September, but if we have to play a playoff game in NY or Green Bay in January, I think we;'ll be very happy to have a guy that is experienced in poor conditions (which was actually a knock on both Butler and Anger).