In 2001, Nelson Mandela wrote to the US columnist Thomas Friedman an open letter about the state of Israel, which he believed was racist and organised on the basis of Apartheid policies.

Dear Thomas,

I know that you and I long for peace in the Middle East, but before you continue to talk about necessary conditions from an Israeli perspective, you need to know what’s on my mind. Where to begin? How about 1964.Let me quote my own words during my trial. They are true today as they were then: “I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.”

Today the world, black and white, recognize that Apartheid has no future. In South Africa it has been ended by our own decisive mass action in order to build peace and security. That mass campaign of defiance and other actions could only culminate in the establishment of Democracy.

Perhaps it is strange for you to observe the situation in Palestine or more specifically, the structure of political and cultural relationships between Palestinians and Israelis, as an Apartheid system. This is because you incorrectly think that the problem of Palestine began in 1967. This was demonstrated in your recent column “Bush’s First Memo” in the New York Times on March 27, 2001.

You seem to be surprised to hear that there are still problems of 1948 to be solved, the most important component of which is the right to return of Palestinian refugees. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not just an issue of military occupation and Israel is not a country that was established “normally” and happened to occupy another country in 1967. Palestinians are not struggling for a “state” but for freedom, liberation and equality, just like we were struggling for freedom in South Africa.

In the last few years, and especially during the reign of the Labour Party, Israel showed that it was not even willing to return what it occupied in 1967; that Settlements remain, Jerusalem would be under exclusive Israeli sovereignty, and Palestinians would not have an independent state, but would be under Israeli economic domination with Israeli control of borders, land, air, water and sea.

Israel was not thinking of a “state” but of “separation”. The value of separation is measured in terms of the ability of Israel to keep the Jewish state Jewish, and not to have a Palestinian minority that could have the opportunity to become a majority at some time in the future. If this takes place, it would force Israel to either become a secular democratic or bi-national state, or to turn into a state of Apartheid not only de facto, but also de jure.

Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40 years, you clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the population who openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism is of the nature of “I hate Arabs” and “I wish Arabs would be dead”.

If you also follow the judicial system in Israel you will see there is discrimination against Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 Occupied Territories you will find there are already two judicial systems in operation that represent two different approaches to human life: one for Palestinian life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally there are two different approaches to property and to land. Palestinian property is not recognized as private property because it can be confiscated.

As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an additional factor. The so-called “Palestinian autonomous areas” are Bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of the Israeli Apartheid system.

The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel’s racial discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a “Jewish” state.

Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.

The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating from the removal policies and Apartheid policies respectively, shed light on what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one can speak of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to its Apartheid policies.

Thomas, I’m not abandoning Mideast diplomacy. But I’m not going to indulge you the way your supporters do. If you want peace and democracy, I will support you. If you want formal Apartheid, we will not support you. If you want to support racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing, we will oppose you.

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martin luther king said the opposite and he was right. Anyway, the racists are those who consider all others infidels, no prices for guessing who that is.

Jxs

@kef: stop lying, brother. Dr. King never said anything in that regard, and even if he did that wouldn’t make him right.

http://Jpost.com Jake

Absolute nonsense. Martin Luther King was a strong friend of Israel, and made several statements in that regard, diametrically opposed to the statements of Mandela.

Speaking at the Rabbinical Assembly in 1968, in which he condermned the anti-Israel stand, Dr. King said the following:

“Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect her right to exist, its territorial integrity and the right to use whatever sea lanes it needs. Israel is one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security, and that security must be a reality.”

Also that year he said the following: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism.”

Lighthouse

Martin Luther King was indeed a great man who achieved great things. He was, however, incorrect if he said criticizing Zionism is the same as being anti-Semitic. It simply isn’t the same thing. Zionists wanted a homeland and were not interested in being Jewish or anything else. It is Israel that people are upset with; not Jewish people. They are not one and the same.

stjohnofthevatican

Amen to that!

henry bonk

As of now it is the same. Denying Jews a home is to deny them their right to life. It’s just that simple and no amount of obfuscation and mental gymnastics will change that.This is a believe that most Jews hold with absolute certainty. This is also a note of caution to people in the Middle East, you have the most to loose if things get out of hand, pay no attention to the “cheer leaders” outside.

deadswitch

Why can’t the US get all of these Zionist and create for them a state in the US ? Problem solved. But then, the US doesn’t want a trouble-maker in their territories.

http://Jpost.com Jake

The Zionist movement was dedicated to one goal and that was the return of the Jewish people to Zion (Jerusalem, the Land of Israel) and the establishment of a Jewish State (The Jewish State was the title of Herzl’s pamphlet). Zionism was the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, nothing more, nothing less. Singling out Zionism for opprobrium while giving other national liberation movements a pass is thinly veiled anti-semitism. 2000 years of history are testament to the fact that it is indeed the Jewish people that “people are upset with” and not just Israel.

deadswitch

It is told that a branch of Abraham’s seeds will be hated forever and wherever they are. No need to guess.

paullafargue

Jake @ “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism.” This is a piece of worn out repetitive Zionist propaganda similar to that practised by the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels. “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” ― Joseph Goebbels

henry bonk

You will find much better examples of Joseph Goebbels propaganda Technics in Palestinian propaganda. Also Nazi Jew hatred, if I were you I would not go there.

http://Jpost.com Jake

There is indeed a powerful propaganda machine at work in this conflict which Goebbels would be proud of. It’s called “Pallywood”.

stjohnofthevatican

Martin Luther maybe is a great man but we wouldn’t be buying his definition on anti-Semitism. Martin Luther King himself is a pastor. He could be a supporter of Christian Zion which some Christian sectors dont agree.

Tonnero

How does this contradict what Mandela said? Nowhere in this speech did King endorse apartheid. And nowhere in Mandela’s letter did he say Israel does not deserve to live in peace and security. Fact of the matter is that you guys picked up other people’s toys and now, not only do you not want to give it back, you don’t even want them to play with it!,

David Murphy

NIce one Jake. facts amidst a sea of bigotry.

henry bonk

So if Dr. King said something positive about Israel, he was wrong, but Mandela is right as long as he was against Israel. You have a problem with logic, or you are plain ant-semitic.

Tonnero

Get a grip. Mandela was not against Israel. He was against apartheid even if practiced by blacks. Unless, of course, you think apartheid and Israel are one and the same thing.

deadswitch

Very true. But then idi0ts see only the surface. Don’t expect much from idi0ts.

deadswitch

The Jews are not the only Semites. The Arabs are also Semites.

deadswitch

Hogwash. The Jews consider anybody who is not a Jew, a dog, a slave. And that includes you. Funny, but it seems that you have accepted that fate.

Brian

Very good comments, from the late South African leader. Who lived in Israel prior to 1948? Palestinian farmers. Whose land is it? The Palestinians. The UN made a mistake by awarding Israel land that already had 30,000 Palestinian farmers living on it. No one has the right to blame the Palestinians from wanting their land back. Gandhi, the great non violent Indian spiritual leader who led India from English enslavement, and domination, said that Israel stole the land from the Palestinians. This is a historic fact.

http://Jpost.com Jake

What you are presenting as “facts” are nothing more than distortions of the facts.

First of all, the UN did not, and could not, “award” land to anyone. The UN General Assembly, which makes non-binding resolutions, RECOMMENDED dividing the land of the Palestine Mandate into an Arab state, a Jewish state, and an international zone. The Jews accepted the partition plan, the Arabs rejected it and waged a war of annihilation against their Jewish neighbors. This began with armed paramilitary groups of local Arab irregulars, and these were later supplemented by 5 invading Arab armies. Israel’s statehood, sovereignty and independence were established by virtue of its emerging from that war victorious. Excuse Israel for winning.

In light of the Arab rejection of the partition plan, the UN Security Council instructed the General Assembly to go back and reconsider the plan. Nothing came out of it. Instead, the Security Council then passed several resolutions which officially anchored the position of the UN on the question of Palestine as being “without prejudice to the rights, positions, and claims of either party”. In other words, total neutrality and a non-commital policy towards statehood of either side.

As for who lived in Israel before 1948, you seem to have ignored the established pre-state Jewish population there of 650,000 Jews, including Tel Aviv and a majority of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Haifa, and other cities and towns. Mandela moreover ignores outright in his article the presence of an Arab citizen minority exceeding 20%. He shows ignorance of the land ownership policy in Israel. The vast majority of land in Israel CANNOT be owned privately but only leased, and laws exist which preventing the discrimination in leasing public State land. By contrast Jewish land ownership in the PA is prohibited by law and land sales to Jews are prohibited by pain of death. Mandela speaks of “Israeli Apartheid”? The PA territory is entirely Judenrein!

Mandela, though he spoke of justice and equality, oversaw the creation of a South Africa that has become monstrously unjust. And he was no innocent bystander in the process. The ruling ANC party adhered to an official policy of AIDS denialism that has condemned to death hundreds of thousands of South Africans, to the point that South Africa one of the highest rates of AIDS in the world today, higher even than most other countries in Africa. Life expectancy has plummeted by some 10 years since 1994. Urban violence has escalated, black immigrants from other African countries and white farmers are targeted with impunity, and striking workers are viciously and brutally treated and have been massacred by the authorities.

Gandhi, whom you refer to with great approval, showed a notorious naiviete, ignorance, and I would say lack of moral fiber on certain issues outside of his domain. For example, he refused to support the War against Nazi Germany on the grounds that he was “opposed to all war”. Amazingly, he advised the Jews who were suffering in Germany not to save their hides by emigrating to the Palestine Mandate or elsewhere, but to engage in “nonviolent civil disobedience” in Germany in order to regain their rights. To any rational observer today, that level of pacifism looks like nothing more than a sick joke.

robertl2

In addition to the 650,000 jews who already lived there we should not forget the additional 800,000 jews who were thrown out of the surrounding arab lands where they had lived for generations.

stjohnofthevatican

Coming from you, there were 650,000 Jews already living there? That only shows how the Palestinian people permitted the Jews in their land. But nevertheless I am more in favor of….

Federation of Palestine and Israel or United Republic of Palestine and Israel or Republic of Central Levant. One goverment with parliamentary members from both sides. Equal opportunity sharing benefits equally.

http://Jpost.com Jake

The lands in question were under control of the British Mandate, not the “palestinian people”, and it was the League of Nations Mandate with its specific purpose to promote the establishment of a Jewish National Home that enabled the large increase in Jewish population, at least prior to the British White Paper of 1939. Prior to the British Mandate, the land was part of the Ottoman Empire. Resident Jews who were not Ottoman citizens were classed as protected persons of foreign powers. None of the Jews were living there by the grace of the local Arab population.

David Murphy

jews have faced persecution by the Arabs since the arrival of Islam in the 7th century. Your idea won’t wrk because the arabs would simply reduce the Jews to second class citizens, steal form them and murder them. As they used to do in the Arab lands before 1948.

Fred

Exactly what israel is doing now. How fair is that? But I remember now, you are the chosen people. Did God instruct you to wreck the Gaza to that extent?

stjohnofthevatican

The very reason the Palestinian disagreed was that it is their land and the resolution is for them to accept of losing a part of what is theirs to begin with. The Jews got nothing to lose but gain in the process.

http://Jpost.com Jake

Only an extremely small percentage of the land was actually owned privately in the Western sense. The vast majority of the land was ultimately property of the State. Even land under long-term lease, including cultivated land, was ultimately the property of the State, and if left uncultivated, would ultimately revert to the State.

wamaromo

Histprically there is nothing like a palestinian stjohnofthevatican. Nothing like that. The whole land was divided into Jordan and Israel why are there no hamas in Jordan if they are fighting for their land?

Crispo Galeon

Okay if you call Mandela’s and Gandhi’s a sick joke, how would you call the UN Resolution recommending the division of Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State knowing that the UN, then and now, are just mere bootlickers of the US and its Western allies? And winning victorious in a war in Palestinian territory as basis of statehood? Isn’t that insane? Where did you get your source that the Jews were prohibited from owning land under the pain of death? That’s absurd! Contrary to what you said it’s the other way around. It was the Palestinians who were prevented from owning as after 1967 everything from the coastline to the airspace were controlled by Israel. If you were an Arab/Palestinian would you agree to be reduced into a bare strip and fenced like infected animals with restricted movement in your very own country?

wamaromo

This is the only time I don’t agree with Mandela. Palestinians should accept the fact that Israel existed and will continue to exist whether by war or by peace it will be up to the Palestinians themselves. If they stop having an idea that they will get a land which they had been given by the Romans after stealing it from the Jews then they are very mistaken

deadswitch

And the Jews stole it from the original inhabitants. Even murdered them.

judy chambers

No it is not. Lets take a look a little further back shall we. The “land” was promised to Abraham as a covenant and to his “seed” That is the seed of promise, Isaac, not the bastards of Hagar. They too were promised but jeez, they have Egypt, Iran, Iraq, et al. This land will forever be in the hands of the Jews, it was a promise made to them by the Almighty God and no-one is going to take it. Not the UN, USA, Europe, nobody!!! Get over yourselves, you don’t have to believe it, if you are alive you will see it. Nuff said. !!

tonypace

So Abraham said. But we know that he was a liar and a pimp who passed his wife off as his sister then became rich renting her out to various potentates around the Middle East. Then he raped his wife’s servant to produce a child and when his wife got pregnant, he sent the servant and her child into the desert to die. Why would anybody believe anything such an evil man had to say?

stjohnofthevatican

Judy Yahweh punished the Jews because they are stubborn. He broke His covenant with them until the coming of the Jewish Messiah. Now, I used the term Jewish Messiah as they dont believe in the Christian Messiah JC.

henry bonk

Yahweh dd not punish the Jews, the Roman Empire did after two bloody unsuccessful revolts against it. The problem with Internet is that it allows purely ignorant to rant all over the place.

Idris

Yet the same Yahweh allowed his “chosen” people to be taken as slaves by the Babylonians and also killed by the Romans.

http://Jpost.com Jake

The term “messiah” is used for a variety of persons in the Hebrew Bible. Notably, it is used to describe Kings Cyrus and Darius of Persia, who instructed the Jews to return to the Land of Israel and rebuild Jerusalem. The prophetic age in the Hebrew Bible ends shortly after that. The Roman period was after that time, from a Jewish standpoint.

deadswitch

If Paul said, then why come with a new religion and abrogate circumcision and Jewish practices ?

obiquitous

judy chambers, I think you are a product of an illicit sexual affair and therefore you are a living proof of a BASTARD. I advice you to read your bible and see that there were no bastards during those times….. it was only until you were born, a BASTARD!

Abbas

Nice one

David Murphy

Only if you are thick as pig-swill.

wamaromo

But what judy chambers has said is true. So are Palestinians descendants of Canaanites that they want to anihilate Israel? They should leave that to the Canaanites then. The Almighty God is with the Israelies that is why this Arabs will fight it and never win. What they are now doing is trying whip up international emotions by using children and women as shields in their unwinnable war, they want to win the emotions of the world. If I was a civilian palestinian I would organise demostartions against these murderous Hamas because all they are doing is making innocent people suffer because they have nothing else to do except fight. They talk of Jihad what is Jihad holy war according to who, now they are fighting a holy army they will be wiped out. I wish Israel just makes sure there is no Hama left.

deadswitch

The most hated nation and people are the Israelites. But they corrupted the scriptures and said it was the descendants of Ismael.

Idris

Wamaromo Judy Chambers is 100% wrong unless you want to deny what the bible said. With uncle Sam supporting Israel she will continue to have upper hand against the Palestinians. Without Uncle Sam Israel is nothing forget that holy Army stuff.

David Murphy

Pretty much as expected, instead of discussing the merits of her arguments you resort to the most imbecilic of abuse – you show the intelligence levels of a low-forehead, knuckle-dragger.

deadswitch

What of bunch of BS. The covenant was promised to the seed of Abraham that will be numerous as the stars. And who do you think are they ? The Jews ? Gee, get your math.

nrvs

Yeah you shouldn’t be taking part in this or any other debate.

David Murphy

She uses her brain, bigots like you don’t possess a brain worth speaking of.

celiz

thats correct

Bob Joe

The israelis living on israel are not decendants from the actual israelis from the time, thus it’s not theirs, so cut the crap.

Idris

Judy Chamber please read your bible and stop being emotional be reasonable. Genesis 17:23 “And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were .bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

Another Question Judy, if God had promise Abraham any land how comes he had to buy a land for him to be burying again go back to your bible. Genesis 50:13 “For his sons carried him into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a burying place of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.”

Obiquitous is right obviously not for insulting you but for referring you to your bible .

TruthHurts

Bastard of Hagar? I’m sure Abraham would be proud of you for calling his son a bastard. You are one to judge another yet you call yourself a believer. You underestimate the God you claim to know and serve.

Akiva S.

Land has belonged the Jews since Biblical times. There is a two state solution in place. It is called Israel and Jordon. And oh BTW, Gandhi was a great admirer of Hitler and said so many times even once it was known about the Final Solution.

stjohnofthevatican

You know that biblical stuff is not true. The Jews modified or made it for their own benefit. But going to that line, it was the Canaanites who were there before the Israelite. If you will insist on the biblical text, what has been established by Yahweh was taken back from the Jews until the Messiah comes.

The existing Israel today was established politically and not religiously.

http://Jpost.com Jake

Kings Cyrus and Darius gave the Jews the green light to return to the Land and rebuild Jerusalem. That was the last word on the status of the Land in the Biblical age.

Crispo Galeon

Israelites evolved directly from Canaanites? I don’t think so! Historically, the Israelites performed an ethnic cleansing when they arrived in Canaan as what the American immigrants did to the Indians. Israelites are purists. They won’t allow mix-marriages. How could they evolve from the Canaanites when they virtually wiped them out from the face of the earth? Remember they introduced monotheism in a polytheistic Canaan believing that it’s superior than the rest combined. Monotheism and polytheism don’t mix well. The other (Polytheism) has to perish to pave the way to Monotheism upon the orders of the imaginary sky god of the Israelites. When religious beliefs enter the political arena that would spell carnage.

deadswitch

Yup. They performed ethnic cleansing like they do now. It is always the belief of the Jews that they are the master race and everyone else is a dog or slave. Care to know why they label themselves as the ‘Chosen People’ to justify their atrocities ?

David Murphy

if they performed ethnic cleansing there would be no Palestinians living in Israel. if they behaved like the Arabs palestinian citizens of Israel (over one million) would not have the vote and could not sit in the knesset.

Perhaps you could lean some facts rather than just spouting ignorant bigotry.

deadswitch

Killing children is ethnic cleansing. Bombing hospitals and schools is ethnic cleansing. Apartheid is ethnic cleansing. If the UN wasn’t there or the Palestinians not fighting, they would have been wiped out a long time ago.

David Murphy

If the ancient Jews did indeed oil off the canaanites it was at the command of their god, the same one the Christians worship.

Tonnero

And who wrote the bible? Besides, did Abraham, your progenitor, not emigrate from Ur in today’s Iraq?

http://Jpost.com Jake

The Israelites/Jews came after the Patriarchal age. The Biblical text says that Abraham’s progeny would inherit the Land of Canaan, not the land of today’s Iraq.

deadswitch

== The Jews aren’t the original inhabitants. They murdered and stole the lands of the original inhabitants just like they are doing until now.

David Murphy

Like most ancient races and tribes did. The Palestinians are to the original inhabitants of Palestine, even in 1948 no race was described as palestinian – they were described as Arabs. And they came from all over the Arab world. The concept of a national Palestinian people arose with the rise of Fatah, the terrorist organisation led by Yasser Arafat.

Ozymandias

The land belongs to Israel and the Jews with the bones of their ancestors there for thousands of years. Hebrew is everywhere on all the old sites.. not Arabic. The bible only speaks of the Jews there and there has never been an independent Palestine, it has always been controlled by Egypt and Turkey. The Palestinian home is Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt.

stjohnofthevatican

Biblical? They were vanished from Levant as a punishment by Yahweh remember?That is why majority of the Jews settled outside Palestine.

David Murphy

Rubbish, the Romans pushed the Jews out after their last rebellion against the Romans. And said expulsion was never complete, 100%. Some Jews remained throughout history until the present day.

Sinequanun

Banished by God? Then returned by God, by God! In many ways Israel is a modern miracle.

deadswitch

The Jews aren’t the original inhabitants. They murdered and stole the lands of the original inhabitants just like they are doing until now.

Yass

You forgot to mention this : “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.” Nelson Mandela

Tonnero

As in “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere”.

paullafargue

Mandela was a great man and was 100% correct about the apartheid racist state of Israel.

henry bonk

Mandela was not a great man, he was political. He said what he said, because he saw advantage in gaining the support of the large Moslem minority in South Africa.

Tonnero

Large Moslem majority in South Africa? You must be high on something. Moslems are only 1.5% of the total population of South Africa. But don’t let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Eva Deutsch

What makes blacks so anti-Semitic, without Jews who helped blacks to fight for black civil rights were would they be. What a ungrateful bunch. Holocaust survivor

Jean Walles

Jealousy, churches, and good old Louis Freakakan. Nelson Mandela living a long life reminds me of the saying “only the good die young.” Like Martin Luther King.

Tonnero

Address the issues raised by Mandela and stop expecting others to lick your bottoms because you helped them at some point. Mandela was not opposing Jews, he was opposing a practice. And as everyone id*iot knows (apart from you and Jean Walles below obviously), Mandela did not even carry a grudge against those who imprisoned him for decades. Israel must find another way and it is not by racial segregation and discrimination.

deadswitch

The only way to solve this problem is for the US to create a new state for these Zionists in the US territories.

R Beard

gHANDI AND MANDELA DID NOT GIVE THE LAND TO ISRAEL – GOD DID.

stjohnofthevatican

what? The Jews were punished and driven out by Yahweh and only at the coming of a Messiah will Israel will be reestablished. No, Jews dont believe in Jesus Christ being the Messiah. Jesus never established any government on earth. You know that.

Abbas

And God will take it back and give it to the people whom it belongs to legally. Not to illegals.

Kumar Krishna

I don’t know , who had given Jews that land. Wanted to tell you something when I was in school ,I used to have a book called Himalay Atlas(hindi) as I always interested to see map and know about India and other countries. That book having little description of all the countries , regarding Israel it was written that some 2 thousand years back Jews were expelled from their land , they used to come every year and cry n vow that they will make Israel one day , fortunately they got a chance to estabilisg Israel . I used to get amazed by this. I used to ask my teachers but they were not intersted much to answer. Latter I came to know that Jews are living in kerla without much troulble like Zoratrians are living in Gujrat and Maharastra. Recently I came to know Jews were living in north estern Indian state of Mizoram identify by Israel. It amaze me how they preserve themselves during exil ! And also is that story was true..??

stjohnofthevatican

I am more for a United Kingdom of Palestine and Israel. or probably:

Federation of Palestine and Israel or United Republic of Palestine and Israel. One government with a parliamentary members of both sides, that will have equal share of funds and benefits.

Or Republic of Central Levant if both wont agree on name of the other to appear.

Mike1980

The Zionists stole the land from the native people period. In 1890 there was less than 20,000 Jews in the area, by 1948 there was 650,000. The Romans, Greeks, Persians, Turks and Arabs had possession of that land for longer periods of time than Jews. The argument that they were there as some point in history is absolute nonsense.

Seth Grossman

Now that Mandela has been made into a saint, we conveniently forget the deals both he and “Palestinian” leader Yasser Arafat made with the Soviet Communists for money, weapons, and support. In 1948, the term “Palestinian” referred mostly to Jews who lived in Palestine, and the Jerusalem Post newspaper was then called the Palestine Post. The bottom line is that in 1948, about 800,000 Jews were forced out of Arab countries, and 600,000 Arabs mostly voluntarily left Jewish Israel. At the same time, millions of Muslims left Hindu India to have their own Muslim Pakistan, and millions of Hindus left Muslim Pakistan for India. Millions of Germans left Poland. Millions of Poles left Russia and Lithuania. All of these other post-World War II refugees made permanent homes in their new countries. Only the Palestinian Arabs sat on the border of their old country and taught their children and grandchildren to kill Jews and destroy it rather than make a new life for themselves in their new country like everybody else. They willingly made themselves pawns in other peoples’ games.

Crispo Galeon

So what’s the problem if I made a pact with Soviet Communists or with the devil but haven’t fired a single bullet at any of my perceived enemies? If I drop a nuclear bomb and raze a country back to the Stone Age and I abhor communists and the devil would that make me a St. George Bush?

Robert in Vancouver

My dog has more intelligent thoughts than Crispo.

deadswitch

My cat has more than yours.

Crispo Galeon

That’s terrific, Robert. If by intelligence you mean your own standards, I have no problem with that. Your dog’s perfectly reflects yours, that’s for sure. Kiss and lick its ass for me, will ya?

Michael Davison

I suppose it’s escaped your notice that Israel is already a binational state, while the Palestinians demand that their state be “Judenrein”. Christians have been fleeing from the Palestinian territories ever since the PLO took over the “A” Areas in 1993. Bethlehem, a town that had a solid 80% Christian majority when the PA took over, now has a Christian minority of less than 20%.

Now, can we look again before talk about “Apartheid states”?

Didi

Can we just clear this up for all the many many idiots out there? Whether or not a state is an Apartheid state is not decided by civilian racism. It’s decided by whether or not there is segregation In that state based on race or ethnicity. That means that although a minority of Israelis are racist towards Arabs (which is not that surprising, considering that Palestine’s goal has always been to wipe Israel off the map, and so after the two Intifadahs Israelis kind of have a right to be scared of Arabs), that fact is inconsequential when determining an apartheid state. As Israeli Arabs have full rights in Israel, in fact, some even sit in the Israeli parliament (including some very outspoken anti Zionist Arabs), I assure you, you can feel comfortable dismissing the idea that Israel is an Apartheid state. Because it most definitely is not. The time is ripe for quite a lot of you to go educate yourselves. Your claim about Israel doing all this to keep the Jewish purity of israel is illegitimate, because ,like i said, there are many Israeli Arabs living in Israel with full rights. Also, how about you show me some evidence of Israel “torturing thousands of Palestinians”. Tell me something Israel has done that is “contrary to the rules of International law”. Maybe then I’ll begin to try to take you seriously.

flaming sword

Bible readers,pls. don’t confine urselves on the old testament but focus also on the new testament…love,peace understanding espoused by God’s holy Son and our Lord and Saviour…no to cruelty but peace – men and women of the world!

Robert in Vancouver

Mr. Mandela was a good man.

But he was extremely off base by accusing Israel of apartheid. That comment was totally ignorant of the facts.

But when it comes to left wing leaders like Mr. Mandela, facts are often just a nuisance.

There is no god/allah/whatever

Worst part of this debate is people using the bible as a law for something… god doesn’t even exist. That’s the saddest thing. I wish I was born 1000 years into the future, when people will have hopefuuly abandoned this hedious thing that religion is. All of them. Disgrace of mankind is religion.

JenifferLivingston Livingston

Mr Mandela said it all. No sitting on the fence for me either. I oppose the indiscriminate bombing of Palestine. Apartheid is the only word to describe the system the Israeli’s have in that area.

Michael Link

I guess firing rockets from the palestinian side is the kind of freedom they are seeking?