John - Try one pie where you don't re-ball after refrigerating and see what happens. Like you I divide the dough before placing in the refrigerator for 2-3 days. Each dough ball is in it's own container. About 3 hours before baking I take the containers out of the refrigerator, carefully remove the dough, and place them on an lightly oiled plate or cookie sheet. My containers are lightly oiled so I can just turn them upside down and the dough drops out on its own. I don't reball. I just let the dough rest for the 2-3 hours before sheeting. This gives me a very pliable dough to work with and I find it to be just a bit more tender after baking. I would be interested in someone else trying this and reporting their results.

DannyG

I've been working with these doughs weekly since last September...and you'll just have to believe me, I've tried every experiment I can think of. My biggest complaint with the written instructions of reballing 2 hours prior to bake...was that the dough stretched way to easily...in fact, when picking the dough up,the weight alone would stretch the dough more than I liked. I also tried doing it your way, and not only was the dough to stretchy, but all the gas in the dough would cause these great big black blisters. Even though all these doughs tasted just fine....I don't think they were pretty!!! Below, are some pictures of my dough that I took out today after 89 hours in the fridge. It's almost filled my container, and contains one huge bubble...so I popped the bubble and it was amazing what was under it....you can see just how much gas the dough holds...it's no wonder the dough blisters if I don't reball. Keep experimenting.

I baked my fourth pizza from this batch after work tonight....fridge time was 96 hours, reballed 8 hours prior to baking, took out of fridge 2 hours prior to baking. This dough hasn't lost any steam at all, still going strong.....flavor gets better each day...pizza is so incredibly tender!!

NormaDon't know if you are familiar with chipottles....they are smoked red jalapenos, canned in kind of sauce called adobo. If you throw the whole can in food processor you get a brownish, redish paste....you can use this to flavor sauces, dressings etc. Our tomato cream sauce is simply 3 parts of your favorite tomato sauce, 2 parts white sauce, and seasoned to taste with chipottle paste...you get a kinda smokey, warm delicious sauce....great with meats such as pepperoni, linguica ,italian sausage etc

John

I am familiar with chipotles in adobo sauce. I used to make salsas with them sometimes. Thanks for sharing how you make your tomato cream sauce with chipotle paste. That does sounds delicious! I will give it a try.

Your dough you took out of fridge at Reply 68 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.msg134676.html#msg134676 after 89 hrs. looks amazing. I would have thought it was almost overfermented from the pictures you took, but the I could see the gluten structure under that bubble. I guess by reballing it then redistributed the sugars and made the dough and crust coloration okay. Do you or anyone else also have the same thoughts? I also am now thinking how the dough would blister if the dough isnít reballed. I saw this past Tuesday a dough my friend Steve (Ev) brought to market that was left in the refrigerator for 30 days. It didnít brown enough, and he didnít reball the dough, but the taste of the crust still was good.

Your current pizza does look amazing! What do you use on your peel that the bottom crust looks so different, if you donít mind sharing? I have seen in each of your Reinhart pizzas your bottom crust looks so much better than mine.

I am familiar with chipotles in adobo sauce. I used to make salsas with them sometimes. Thanks for sharing how you make your tomato cream sauce with chipotle paste. That does sounds delicious! I will give it a try.

Your dough you took out of fridge at Reply 68 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.msg134676.html#msg134676 after 89 hrs. looks amazing. I would have thought it was almost overfermented from the pictures you took, but the I could see the gluten structure under that bubble. I guess by reballing it then redistributed the sugars and made the dough and crust coloration okay. Do you or anyone else also have the same thoughts? I also am now thinking how the dough would blister if the dough isnít reballed. I saw this past Tuesday a dough my friend Steve (Ev) brought to market that was left in the refrigerator for 30 days. It didnít brown enough, and he didnít reball the dough, but the taste of the crust still was good.

Your current pizza does look amazing! What do you use on your peel that the bottom crust looks so different, if you donít mind sharing? I have seen in each of your Reinhart pizzas your bottom crust looks so much better than mine.

Norma

NormaI agree with you that reballing redistributes everything in the dough.. and by reballing sooner than later, the dough has a chance to regas. When I taken my dough out (even these older doughs) to warm up, they just about rise two thirds of the way back up my container in two hours....so there's a lot of life left in them. I use a very light sprinkling of corn meal on my oven peel.

NormaI agree with you that reballing redistributes everything in the dough.. and by reballing sooner than later, the dough has a chance to regas. When I taken my dough out (even these older doughs) to warm up, they just about rise two thirds of the way back up my container in two hours....so there's a lot of life left in them. I use a very light sprinkling of corn meal on my oven peel.

John

John,

Thanks for your thoughts on what reballing does. I never tried corn meal on my peel. I will try the corn meal sometime.

I made a batch of Reinhart's New York Style Pizza Dough, upping the hydration to 70%, using ADM High gluten flour, because that's was all that was available at the time. I followed mixing instructions exactly, I then scaled, balled and refrigerated. Each dough ball was 12 ounces. This dough was in the fridge for 48 hours, reballed 7 hours prior to baking, and taken from the fridge 2 hours prior to baking. The dough was very extensible and was easily stretched to about a 14 by 11 inch shape....just a hair to thin for me, but it was delicious, crisp etc

I made a batch of Reinhart's New York Style Pizza Dough, upping the hydration to 70%, using ADM High gluten flour, because that's was all that was available at the time. I followed mixing instructions exactly, I then scaled, balled and refrigerated. Each dough ball was 12 ounces. This dough was in the fridge for 48 hours, reballed 7 hours prior to baking, and taken from the fridge 2 hours prior to baking. The dough was very extensible and was easily stretched to about a 14 by 11 inch shape....just a hair to thin for me, but it was delicious, crisp etc

John

John,

It is interesting you upped the hydration to 70%. Your pizza looks great! How did you like this crust compared the other two formulas you tried on this thread? Was you recent attempt the best?

NormaAs you know, my goal is simplicity....raising the hydration to 70% has made the opening of the dough a much tougher deal. It is so soft, and one could easily open it as far as he wanted..i'ts very hard not to over stretch.. So, I'm gonna say that last's weeks dough (67%) is more where I want to be. But, as far as taste, texture etc. the dough is a huge winner. Here is a dough that was refrigerated 72 hours:John

NormaAs you know, my goal is simplicity....raising the hydration to 70% has made the opening of the dough a much tougher deal. It is so soft, and one could easily open it as far as he wanted..i'ts very hard not to over stretch.. So, I'm gonna say that last's weeks dough (67%) is more where I want to be. But, as far as taste, texture etc. the dough is a huge winner. Here is a dough that was refrigerated 72 hours:John

John,

I know your goal has been simplicity. Thanks for posting how soft the dough was with 70% hydration. I really like your experiments with this Reinhartís dough and the other Reinhart doughs. You pie looks great like always! I really like higher hydration doughs.

Hey everyone. This dough looked so easy and delicious, I just made up a batch for two 16" pies. I'm going to make one tomorrow evening and one the following evening to get a taste for the aging of the dough. But I have two questions: (1) how exactly does one "reball"? Are you guys flouring the dough ball when you reball? (2) When is the best time to reball? I know PR says two hours before cooking, but I see that many of you are reballing well in advance of cooking (more like 6-10 hours).

Thanks,Matt

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Matt

Navin R. Johnson: "Oh, this is the best pizza in a cup ever. This guy is unbelievable. He ran the old Cup 'o Pizza guy out of business."

Hey everyone. This dough looked so easy and delicious, I just made up a batch for two 16" pies. I'm going to make one tomorrow evening and one the following evening to get a taste for the aging of the dough. But I have two questions: (1) how exactly does one "reball"? Are you guys flouring the dough ball when you reball? (2) When is the best time to reball? I know PR says two hours before cooking, but I see that many of you are reballing well in advance of cooking (more like 6-10 hours).

Thanks,Matt

Matt,

I will let John tell you how he does his reballs, and what he has learned so far in the reball method. All of Johnís pies have looked fantastic!

What I do for the reball is just like forming a dough ball and making the skin tighter to trap air bubbles inside the dough. It can also make the dough less sticky. It is something like doing stretch and folds with a higher hydration dough. I have done this at different times before the bake. The the skin feels somewhat tight (but not too tight), something like a smooth dough ball and then close the dough ball like normally is done. If the dough is reballed too much, that can make the dough harder to open, at least in my opinion. I donít know, but would think this gives a better oven spring and lets the gluten relax more, than reballing so close to the bake, as is stated in the directions by Peter Reinhart.

Norma

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Always working and looking for new information!

buceriasdon

I find it equally challeging opening and shaping my AP flour dough at 75 to 80%. I'm not sure I'll ever get the skins round to the point I just don't get stressed trying to get a round skin. They'll get better in time.Don

quote author=fazzari link=topic=13442.msg135552#msg135552 date=1303003578]NormaAs you know, my goal is simplicity....raising the hydration to 70% has made the opening of the dough a much tougher deal. It is so soft, and one could easily open it as far as he wanted..i'ts very hard not to over stretch.. So, I'm gonna say that last's weeks dough (67%) is more where I want to be. But, as far as taste, texture etc. the dough is a huge winner. Here is a dough that was refrigerated 72 hours:John

I think I might have changed my mind on my favorite doughs now...yesterday, I thought the 70% hydration was a little tougher to open, and so I was opting more for 67%. But after thinking about it all night...I realized this dough would be easy to open laying flat on the peel...and so the following pizza was opened easily, uniformly and was absolutely fantastic. Matt, in my experiments with Reinhart's doughs, I found that reballing sooner rather than later (5 to 10 hours) gave the dough balls more strength, I also found that the bottoms seemed to bake uniformly brown all over. When I reball, I usually use neither oil or flour because the dough isn't sticky.....these higher hydration doughs though sometimes need a bit of oil on your hands. I also try to degas completely the dough ball knowing it will have 5 to 10 hours to rebuild. This dough was in the fridge 96 hours...reballed and refrigerated 4 hours prior to baking...set out at room temp 2 hours prior to baking.....it was fabulous!!!JOhn

As it turns out, I'll be having some guests tonight, so I'll be using both doughs. I reballed this morning before I left for work. There will be approximately 10-12 hours between the reball and baking. Looking forward to trying this dough!

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Matt

Navin R. Johnson: "Oh, this is the best pizza in a cup ever. This guy is unbelievable. He ran the old Cup 'o Pizza guy out of business."

I find it equally challeging opening and shaping my AP flour dough at 75 to 80%. I'm not sure I'll ever get the skins round to the point I just don't get stressed trying to get a round skin. They'll get better in time.Don

quote author=fazzari link=topic=13442.msg135552#msg135552 date=1303003578]NormaAs you know, my goal is simplicity....raising the hydration to 70% has made the opening of the dough a much tougher deal. It is so soft, and one could easily open it as far as he wanted..i'ts very hard not to over stretch.. So, I'm gonna say that last's weeks dough (67%) is more where I want to be. But, as far as taste, texture etc. the dough is a huge winner. Here is a dough that was refrigerated 72 hours:John

Don....sometimes I wonder what I'm thinking about....these last two doughs I just dropped the dough ball in flour, turned it over to get both sides floured, and then just pressed it out on my peel....so simple, I was trying to do too much to it....so I pressed and pressed and got a perfect 12 and half inch pie...slid it onto some cornmeal and into the oven.This dough was in the fridge 120 hours.....very, tasty...excellent texture

John, your pizza looks marvelous. Yea, sometimes the skins just seem to open themselves. Other times........well.Don

Well DonI learned something huge today by accident. I was under the gun time wise, and so my dough was only out of the fridge 1 hour. So, what happens...the dough is firmer and easy to open, and strong enough to pick up without stretching...so I was able to stretch it exactly the way I want. this dough was in the fridge 6 days......another amazing crust...and my next experiment will raise the hydration another 2 percent.John

Great looking pies you've been making. What size are they? I made a batch of this dough last week and used some of it in a decidedly un-N.Y. style of pizza. Specifically, I used a dough ball for a 16" pie in a 12" pan, and another in a 14" pan. then 3 more regular 16" N.Y. style pies, all spread out over a weeks time. I'll be back after I download some photos.