IRC office hours/Office hours 2013-05-08

Time: 1700-1800 UTC
Channel: #wikimedia-office
Timestamps are in Indian Standard Time (IST)

[22:32] <arrbee> === Wikimedia Language Engineering Office Hour - Start ===
[22:32] <arrbee> Hello, Welcome to the office hour of the Wikimedia Language Engineering Team.
[22:33] <arrbee> My name is Runa and I am the Outreach and QA coordinator for our team.
[22:33] <odder> nice to meet you, Runa arrbee
[22:33] <arrbee> The other members of our team present today are: aharoni alolita Nikerabbit pginer siebrand
[22:34] * siebrand greets you.
[22:34] <arrbee> Nice to meet you too odder :)
[22:34] <Micru> hi there
[22:34] <arrbee> Our last office hour was held on April 10 2013
[22:34] <marktraceur> siebrand: Hooked on a Feeling (and now I'll stop)
[22:34] <arrbee> The logs are at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2013-04-10
[22:34] <harshkothari> hi all
[22:35] <arrbee> I'll be logging today as well.
[22:35] <arrbee> In today's session we will briefly talk about some of the projects that we have been recently working on
[22:36] <arrbee> Also we'll talk about our participation in Google Summer of Code (GSoC)
[22:36] <arrbee> And Outreach Program for Women (OPW)
[22:36] <arrbee> After that we would be happy to answer any questions
[22:37] <arrbee> If you'd like to send in your questions before the Q&A, please send them to me as a private message.
[22:37] <marktraceur> lmit 36
[22:37] <arrbee> As I mentioned before, we are the Wikimedia Language Engineering Team.
[22:38] * sucheta waves
[22:38] <sucheta> Hello all!
[22:38] <arrbee> We work on enabling Language tools for MediaWiki and Wikimedia projects to provide internationalization and localization support for more than 300 languages
[22:39] <arrbee> Our current focus currently is on:
[22:39] <arrbee> 1. developing the modified features for Universal Language Selector and preparing it for deployment,
[22:40] <arrbee> 2. outreach activities, and
[22:40] <arrbee> 3. summer projects
[22:40] <arrbee> First topic of discussion: ULS - changes[22:41] <arrbee> The Universal Language Selector aka ULS is a tool to configure language settings
[22:41] <arrbee> It replaces Narayam and WebFonts to provide a unified tool
[22:41] <arrbee> It also adds user interface language selection
[22:42] <arrbee> At the moment we are working on two things after we implemented the last design changes
[22:42] <arrbee> 1. We are fixing bugs, and
[22:42] <arrbee> 2. we are building integration tests with the Wikimedia QA team
[22:43] <arrbee> We are planning to make ULS available to all Wikimedia projects
[22:43] <arrbee> We can hopefully communicate a deployment plan within the next two weeks
[22:44] <arrbee> So the following is provisional
[22:44] <arrbee> ULS will be on every wiki in one of two ways:
[22:45] <arrbee> 1. As a cog icon in the interlanguage links section of the sidebar menu in wikis that use interlanguage links
[22:46] <arrbee> Those are all language versions of Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikiversity, Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Wikivoyage, Wikinews, Wikisource
[22:46] <arrbee> You can see this in action at: http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Version
[22:47] <arrbee> Unfortunately beta labs has a caching issue
[22:47] <arrbee> So you may see <uls-plang-title-languages> instead of "Languages"
[22:47] <arrbee> Or no cog icon on some pages while not logged in
[22:48] <arrbee> We reported it as a bug: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48203
[22:48] <arrbee> 2. For non-interlanguage wikis the ULS is accessible in the personal toolbar
[22:49] <arrbee> This is how it is already available on Meta-Wiki, Wikidata.org and translatewiki.net
[22:49] <arrbee> It can also be tested at: http://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Version
[22:50] <arrbee> We currently envision the rollout in 5 phases over 5 weeks
[22:51] <arrbee> As we get closer to the actual dates we will communicate with the wiki communities involved in the first few phases
[22:51] <arrbee> We will broadcast about the progress on the blog, wikitech-ambassadors, and wikitech-l
[22:51] <arrbee> siebrand: Would you like to add anything more about this?
[22:52] <siebrand> I could add a lot, but this is the most important.
[22:52] <siebrand> We have room for questions if more details is needed.
[22:52] <arrbee> Alright. Thanks.
[22:52] <arrbee> Moving on
[22:52] <arrbee> Second topic of discussion: MLEB - Release
[22:53] <arrbee> A new version of the MediaWiki Language Extension Bundle (MLEB) was released in the last week of April 2013
[22:54] <arrbee> From this version onwards MLEB can only be used with MediaWiki version 1.20.4 or above
[22:54] <arrbee> Announcement and Release Notes are here: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-i18n/2013-April/000677.html
[22:54] <arrbee> The next release of MLEB is scheduled during the last week of May 2013
[22:55] <arrbee> aharoni: Anything to add about this?
[22:55] <aharoni> A couple of things:
[22:56] <aharoni> 1. We'd love to hear more feedback about MLEB. We know that people are downloading it, and we received a couple of bug reports about it. We'd love to hear more feedback - positive and constructively negative.
[22:57] <aharoni> 2. I am thinking of ways to improve the pre-release testing of MLEB, and I'd love to hear ideas about it.
[22:58] <arrbee> You can write to us on the mediawiki-i18n list or even file bugs.
[22:59] <arrbee> or ping us on #mediawiki-i18n
[22:59] <arrbee> Thanks aharoni
[22:59] <arrbee> Third topic of discussion: Maven Program
[23:00] <arrbee> We have started working on a handbook for the participants of the Maven program
[23:00] <arrbee> A rough draft is available here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Language_tools/Language_Team_Plan/Maven_Handbook
[23:01] <arrbee> This effort is in progress and we hope to build this together with the Language Maven team members
[23:01] <arrbee> Some of the Maven team members are here today too: mirontoli Nemo_bis :)
[23:02] <arrbee> That brings us to the last topic of discussion: GSoC and OPW
[23:03] <arrbee> We had mentioned in our last office hour that we are participating in GSoC and OPW this year
[23:03] <mirontoli> hello :)
[23:03] <arrbee> We received quite a few interesting proposals and we are at present evaluating them
[23:04] <arrbee> We are looking forward to an exciting summer of code :)
[23:05] <arrbee> People who are not eligible for GSoC or OPW or somehow miss the bus can still start to participate in our other projects
[23:05] <arrbee> A list of these projects can be found here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Internationalization_and_localization
[23:06] <arrbee> That concludes the topics on the agenda.
[23:06] <Base-w> what is GSoC & OPW?
[23:06] <arrbee> We now move on to Q and A
[23:06] <arrbee> Base-w: Google Summer of Code and Outreach Program for Women
[23:07] <Base-w> thanks
[23:08] <sankarshan> Is there a link to the project ideas for GSoC/OPW put forward by the Language Engineering team?
[23:09] <arrbee> sankarshan: yes
[23:09] <siebrand> :D
[23:09] <ebernhardson> arrbee: question not about the above, but it was suggested this is a good place to ask: I'm adding a stylized '?' icon to core for a particular feature and need to find out if an RTL version is also required. Who/where would be the best place to ask for this, and future queries?
[23:10] <siebrand> sankarshan: It was pasted 5 mins ago: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Internationalization_and_localization
[23:10] <sankarshan> siebrand, thank you.
[23:10] <Nikerabbit> hi ebernhardson ;)
[23:10] <siebrand> sankarshan: Actually that's the list of projects that DIDN'T make the OPW/GSoC list.
[23:10] <ebernhardson> Nikerabbit: hi :)
[23:10] <arrbee> ebernhardson: aharoni would be the person to seek
[23:11] <siebrand> sankarshan: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Championing_i18n are the projects that did make the list.
[23:11] <sankarshan> siebrand, thank you. again :)
[23:11] <ebernhardson> arrbee: alright i will drop an email, thanks!
[23:11] <siebrand> sankarshan: arrbee can always follow up by email with you...
[23:12] <siebrand> ;)
[23:12] <arrbee> siebrand: sankarshan: The page was indeed here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013#Championing_i18n . But there is a re-org there.
[23:12] <aharoni> ebernhardson: It's good to have a reversed question mark (؟) in languages written in the Arabic script - Arabic, Persian, Pashto, Urdu.
[23:12] <aharoni> But it's definitely not needed for Hebrew.
[23:13] <arrbee> sankarshan: siebrand: qgil may be able to point you to the earlier version of the list (if it still exists)
[23:13] <sankarshan> arrbee, Alright. I will figure that out. Thanks for the links. Most interesting.
[23:13] <siebrand> It's probably in the page history. sankarshan: Want me to look that up?
[23:13] <arrbee> (i.e. out of the page history)
[23:13] <aharoni> ebernhardson: (And don't confuse it with the Spanish question mark - ¿)
[23:14] <qgil> hi, what do you need/
[23:14] <ebernhardson> aharoni: ok, excelent info. I will talk to our designer about having one made. Would you suggest then having 3 icons, forward, reversed, and spanish?
[23:14] <ebernhardson> aharoni: if it matters, the use case is an icon which brings up a tooltip
[23:14] <aharoni> ebernhardson: A special icon is not needed for Spanish. Both questions marks are used in that language, and the regular one is OK.
[23:14] <sankarshan> siebrand, Nope. I'll do that off-IRC, thank you for the offer.
[23:16] <aharoni> ebernhardson: so two icons are enough - Arabic (؟) and regular (?).
[23:16] <arrbee> One more thing: We would be having a Language Engineering presence at the Amsterdam Hackathon.
[23:17] <Nikerabbit> me, siebrand and pginer
[23:17] * siebrand at your service.
[23:17] <aharoni> ebernhardson: actually, Greek uses ";" as a question mark and Armenian uses "՞", but better ask people who actually know these languages what to do with them. I think that a regular "?" will be OK for them.
[23:18] <ebernhardson> aharoni: ok wonderfull, any suggestions on who to ping regarding armenian and greek, perhaps there is a list somewhere of who is fluent in which languages?
[23:19] <siebrand> qgil: I think no one answered you yet. There was a possible need for an original list of proposed GSoC/OPW projects, before they were assessed - then 10, IIRC, later brought back to 4 or 5. I think sankarshan has enough information now to find it himself.
[23:19] <siebrand> ebernhardson: Are you certain you need an icon, and cannot use CSS and message key contents?
[23:19] <Nikerabbit> hmm, I would imagine that ? is pretty universal icon for "help" but I haven't checked what other sites do
[23:19] <siebrand> ebernhardson: That would be the most flexible way.
[23:20] <qgil> siebrand, sankarshan the original proposal came from email by arrbee with alolita CCed. I have it if you need it.
[23:20] <aharoni> ebernhardson: try English Wikipedia talk pages of articles about these languages, and also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:User_el and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:User_am
[23:21] <siebrand> qgil: Oh, didn't know that, but I'm almost certain we prepared it on-wiki, too.
[23:21] <Nikerabbit> at least youtube uses (?) symbol for all languages on quick check
[23:21] <ebernhardson> siebrand: hmm, i suppose it is possible css could do the trick along with a wfMessage(), When we initially put it together with (?) rather than an icon it looked a bit bland but perhaps css can clean that up
[23:21] <Nikerabbit> we also have such icon in translate extension which does not have rtl or other versions
[23:22] <aharoni> yes - "?" should be pretty universal. "؟" for Arabic is a nice bonus, not a strong requirement.
[23:24] <Nikerabbit> more questions?
[23:24] <arrbee> We have another 5 minutes
[23:24] <arrbee> :)
[23:24] <siebrand> IIRC we use a ? icon for WebFonts, Translate and Narayam, too, but if we make the effort once, we can just use it everywhere (and add it to Agora, right?)
[23:25] <Nikerabbit> would make sense
[23:26] <ebernhardson> hmm. I suppose if its not a requirement, and other major internation sites use it, i would lean twords the embedded icon vs wfMessage() + css which i think provides a better look and feel, Since this is going in core I will talk to a designer and have the arabic one put together
[23:26] <siebrand> I've seen ‽ used recently in CentralAuth. Made me frown :)
[23:26] <Nikerabbit> hah
[23:27] <arrbee> :D
[23:27] <Nikerabbit> ebernhardson: also ask for svg in case he/she makes a new one
[23:27] <ebernhardson> Nikerabbit: will do
[23:27] <siebrand> ebernhardson: Do not ask, require, as it is needed for high res screens.
[23:27] <odder> SVG <3
[23:28] <ebernhardson> ok, gotcha :)
[23:28] Nikerabbit Nischayn22|Away
[23:28] <arrbee> We are down to our last minute now.
[23:28] <arrbee> But we will be around on #mediawiki-i18n
[23:29] <arrbee> So please feel free to continue discussions on that channel :)
[23:30] <arrbee> If nothing changes, then our next office hour is on June 12th
[23:30] <Micru> arrbee, is this office hour already over?
[23:30] <arrbee> We will be making all announcements well ahead of that date
[23:30] <arrbee> Micru: In another minute.
[23:31] <Micru> can i ask a question?
[23:31] <arrbee> Micru: Sure, please go ahead
[23:31] <arrbee> (if it takes longer we'll have to move to #mediawiki-i18n)
[23:31] <Micru> what are the plans for machine translation integration? Is there something defined or still in drafting stage?
[23:32] <arrbee> Nikerabbit: would you like to answer that?
[23:32] <Nikerabbit> mmm
[23:33] <Nikerabbit> Micru: basically we are relying on services done by other people
[23:33] <Nikerabbit> and there aren't that many which are good and free
[23:33] <Nikerabbit> but the Translate extension does have support for calling them in the translator interface
[23:34] <Micru> I was referring to Erik's email from last week
[23:34] <Micru> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-April/125350.html
[23:34] <Nikerabbit> at this stage there are no concrete plans
[23:35] <Nikerabbit> (but I will be attending a course about machine translation and Apertium next week, so who knows...)
[23:35] <Micru> ah, that is great! I am planning to set up a meeting with some Apertium people, would you like to participate in the meeting?
[23:36] <Micru> it would be online
[23:36] <Nikerabbit> Micru: yes
[23:36] <Micru> Nikerabbit, I will send you the details
[23:37] <arrbee> Micru: Nikerabbit : We are now overtime. Don't want to keep anyone waiting if they are scheduled to use this channel :)
[23:38] <Micru> that is fine!
[23:38] <Micru> thanks for answering my question! :)
[23:38] <arrbee> Thank you everyone for coming and for the questions. Please do write to us your thoughts about our work or things you'd like to see in internationalization.
[23:38] <arrbee> Micru: most welcome :)
[23:38] <arrbee> I'll be posting the logs shortly.
[23:39] <arrbee> === Wikimedia Language Engineering Office Hour - End ===