If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

Minato did have a technique to sense chakra back then, and he currently has the Kyuubi's cloak with also senses chakra automatically, so even if he couldn't back then, there's no excuse in the present.

,Minato didn’t seem to possess it. I can only remember Kakashi detecting the enemies’ presence with the team and Minato doing the finger placement trick to sense them, unless I missed or forgot something in the picture.

,Now that I think about it, I believe he did sense Obito in the scene, but not not as him but the masked man, that prompted him to do KB later. With this, it’s plausible that Obito’s chakra’s feeling had drastically change due to body modifications and all.

Quote:

There's more to it then that though, else Madara and Izuna wouldn't have been the first to awaken it. The Uchiha clan had been fighting long before that, and undoubtedly had members witness the death of their closest persons.

,I don’t know if Itachi’s story of them as the first true persons to awaken it must really be valid, considering that MS can be obtained by experiencing such severe emotion of losing someone, may it be witnessing or doing it with own hands. So it’s possible that some may have awakened it ages ago before the two acquired it, only that they happened to be unknown in the midst. It was also noted that clan members continuously did the process along the way but we didn’t know of other persons who got it aside from the ones we know already. So either way it’s kinda possible others acquiared it, but became unnoticeable unlike the primary characters.

,The other way can also be that full extreme trauma must be evident, which in case could be present only to the people who obtained it. Just a secondary case though.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by naruto the best

,Minato didn’t seem to possess it. I can only remember Kakashi detecting the enemies’ presence with the team and Minato doing the finger placement trick to sense them, unless I missed or forgot something in the picture.

,Now that I think about it, I believe he did sense Obito in the scene, but not not as him but the masked man, that prompted him to do KB later. With this, it’s plausible that Obito’s chakra’s feeling had drastically change due to body modifications and all.

But we know Minato did possess a way back then. The finger trick. Him not using it doesn't change that.

Obito's body modifications shouldn't have had an impact. Orochimaru had far greater modifications and he was still recognizable. Aoi had no trouble sensing and differentiating Shisui's chakra from Danzo's chakra. Obito having half his body as Zetsu material shouldn't have affected the other half, not to the point where he was a completely different person.

Originally Posted by naruto the best

I don’t know if Itachi’s story of them as the first true persons to awaken it must really be valid, considering that MS can be obtained by experiencing such severe emotion of losing someone, may it be witnessing or doing it with own hands. So it’s possible that some may have awakened it ages ago before the two acquired it, only that they happened to be unknown in the midst. It was also noted that clan members continuously did the process along the way but we didn’t know of other persons who got it aside from the ones we know already. So either way it’s kinda possible others acquiared it, but became unnoticeable unlike the primary characters.

,The other way can also be that full extreme trauma must be evident, which in case could be present only to the people who obtained it. Just a secondary case though.

Both Itachi and Obito stated that Madara and Izuna were the first, and went on to tell us that Izuna didn't die til afterward, which fits with Hashirama's flashback. If others had awoken it, then there would have been no reason it wouldn't already have been known about by the Uchiha clan. It's not exactly something one could or would hide. And while we don't know the exacts, we do know others gained it thanks to Itachi's story, Obito's reference to Susanoo being rare, and Tobirama's comment about Sasuke's Enton.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

But we know Minato did possess a way back then. The finger trick. Him not using it doesn't change that.

Obito's body modifications shouldn't have had an impact. Orochimaru had far greater modifications and he was still recognizable. Aoi had no trouble sensing and differentiating Shisui's chakra from Danzo's chakra. Obito having half his body as Zetsu material shouldn't have affected the other half, not to the point where he was a completely different person.

Ao was a sensor not to mention he did it with the help of Byakugan.
Sensing someone is kinda common trait... Many ninjas shown to sense that SOMEONE is coming, but pin pointing whose chakra is it.. Its an entirely different thing. So it will be a stretch to assume that you ll be able to recognize the chakra of a specific someone in the middle of a fast paced intense fight (Unless you are a sensory nin)

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

But we know Minato did possess a way back then. The finger trick. Him not using it doesn't change that.

,He had no active sensing ability like that of a real sensor like Ao or Karin back then except for that finger trick which just seems to detect enemies’ presence, not the identity of their chakra. So this point is useless.

Quote:

Obito's body modifications shouldn't have had an impact. Orochimaru had far greater modifications and he was still recognizable. Aoi had no trouble sensing and differentiating Shisui's chakra from Danzo's chakra. Obito having half his body as Zetsu material shouldn't have affected the other half, not to the point where he was a completely different person.

,Thanks to Byakugan and his sensor skills he did it. Who did recognize him in such state? Tobirama? Yeah but not as saying he had detected Orochimaru but detected he had Hashirama’s cells in him. And then praised Sarutobi for raising a fine student. I really believe the overall aspect of chakra is affected, thus made him undetectable as Obito even with Minato’s cloak.

Quote:

Both Itachi and Obito stated that Madara and Izuna were the first, and went on to tell us that Izuna didn't die til afterward, which fits with Hashirama's flashback. If others had awoken it, then there would have been no reason it wouldn't already have been known about by the Uchiha clan. It's not exactly something one could or would hide. And while we don't know the exacts, we do know others gained it thanks to Itachi's story, Obito's reference to Susanoo being rare, and Tobirama's comment about Sasuke's Enton.

,The story is still arguable though. Also, in that setting my second case would suffice that full extreme trauma must be evident to awaken it, that being absent in others’ cases. About your claim of the other additional option so that MS is awakened, we can only hold assumptions to it, but while not being revealed, we can stick to the original one being substantiated in the manga.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Dark blood

Ao was a sensor not to mention he did it with the help of Byakugan.
Sensing someone is kinda common trait... Many ninjas shown to sense that SOMEONE is coming, but pin pointing whose chakra is it.. Its an entirely different thing. So it will be a stretch to assume that you ll be able to recognize the chakra of a specific someone in the middle of a fast paced intense fight (Unless you are a sensory nin)

Neither of those thing changes what I said. Pin pointing someone merely involves knowing what said person's chakra "feels" like. And it wasn't all "fast paced" against Obito.

Originally Posted by naruto the best

He had no active sensing ability like that of a real sensor like Ao or Karin back then except for that finger trick which just seems to detect enemies’ presence, not the identity of their chakra. So this point is useless.

Their abilities aren't inherently active either. And that trick does sense chakra.

Originally Posted by naruto the best

Thanks to Byakugan and his sensor skills he did it. Who did recognize him in such state? Tobirama? Yeah but not as saying he had detected Orochimaru but detected he had Hashirama’s cells in him. And then praised Sarutobi for raising a fine student. I really believe the overall aspect of chakra is affected, thus made him undetectable as Obito even with Minato’s cloak.

Yeah, he did it, despite the fact that Shisui's chakra would have been mixed with both Hashirama's and Danzo's chakra. Itachi also recognized him. There was also Kimimaro recognizing Orochimaru's chakra in Kabuto's. So there's no reason to believe that the aspect of the chakra would change so drastically that it would be unrecognizable.

Originally Posted by naruto the best

The story is still arguable though. Also, in that setting my second case would suffice that full extreme trauma must be evident to awaken it, that being absent in others’ cases. About your claim of the other additional option so that MS is awakened, we can only hold assumptions to it, but while not being revealed, we can stick to the original one being substantiated in the manga.

What's arguable about it? And it seems incredibly unlikely that no one before ever saw a friend or love die firsthand before a few generations ago. The original one was never supported though. None of the Uchiha's we have awoke it by killing someone.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Neither of those thing changes what I said. Pin pointing someone merely involves knowing what said person's chakra "feels" like. And it wasn't all "fast paced" against Obito.

Minato not knowing that person behind the mask was Obito involve the same phenomenon of pinpointing some ones chakra. He could have felt his chakra but with whome that chakra belonged that requires a specific skill set, which minato didn't have

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Dark blood

Minato not knowing that person behind the mask was Obito involve the same phenomenon of pinpointing some ones chakra. He could have felt his chakra but with whome that chakra belonged that requires a specific skill set, which minato didn't have

Recognizing someone by their chakra requires knowing the person associated with it. We saw that during the summit, with Karin having to see Danzo beforehand to connect the two, and Aoi knowing what was up because of his previous experience with Shisui.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

Recognizing someone by their chakra requires knowing the person associated with it. We saw that during the summit, with Karin having to see Danzo beforehand to connect the two, and Aoi knowing what was up because of his previous experience with Shisui.

,It’s not about recognizing the actual person, just a matter of awareness that someone is present in the area, thus sensed in that manner only, which is in Minato’s case. That’s just his ability,which is actually inferior to others’ sensing abilities of the shinobi mentioned, nothing else that time. Plus, again he uses his finger trick for that, which means he really didn’t have the access to it since he wasn’t able to perform it. So, no matter how we see it, there’s no reason to believe he must have sensed Obito that time.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by naruto the best

,It’s not about recognizing the actual person, just a matter of awareness that someone is present in the area, thus sensed in that manner only, which is in Minato’s case. That’s just his ability,which is actually inferior to others’ sensing abilities of the shinobi mentioned, nothing else that time. Plus, again he uses his finger trick for that, which means he really didn’t have the access to it since he wasn’t able to perform it. So, no matter how we see it, there’s no reason to believe he must have sensed Obito that time.

I'm not sure what you mean. The finger trick that Minato and Tobirama use senses chakra, not merely a person's presents. And him not using it isn't the same as not having access to it, the latter suggesting that it wasn't an option even if he wanted to. I didn't say he did sense Obito, I said he could have.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

,I did not say you've said it. Point is, there's no way he could have sensed Obito. I meant he didn't have the access to sensing Tobi as Obito since he wasn't able to perform the finger trick (it was out of option). He needs that ability to sense chakra according to you, right? But there was no act, so it's moot. That's what I meant. Even then, again Minato's finger trick is designed to detect enemies' presence only, not the exact person whose chakra belongs to, which requires another sensory deal. Tobirama is a sensor. Even without that finger trick his sensory skill is evident, which Minato doesn't have.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

I'm not sure what you mean. The finger trick that Minato and Tobirama use senses chakra, not merely a person's presents. And him not using it isn't the same as not having access to it, the latter suggesting that it wasn't an option even if he wanted to. I didn't say he did sense Obito, I said he could have.

Can you please give a reference to that Finger trick referred above please ...

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by naruto the best

,I did not say you've said it. Point is, there's no way he could have sensed Obito. I meant he didn't have the access to sensing Tobi as Obito since he wasn't able to perform the finger trick (it was out of option). He needs that ability to sense chakra according to you, right? But there was no act, so it's moot. That's what I meant. Even then, again Minato's finger trick is designed to detect enemies' presence only, not the exact person whose chakra belongs to, which requires another sensory deal. Tobirama is a sensor. Even without that finger trick his sensory skill is evident, which Minato doesn't have.

Nothing outside of plot kept him from using that trick. It would have been a reasonable option, especially against an opponent who kept appearing out of nowhere. Tobirama hasn't shown any greater sensory ability outside that trick.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

@ Rikudou King
If you meant by finger trick what is mentioned by Kingof Night, then it do not indicate that this trick can be useful in identifying whose chakra is this.
I mean this trick can tell that there is chakra of some people ahead but you can't feel whose chakra is that.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

Nothing outside of plot kept him from using that trick. It would have been a reasonable option, especially against an opponent who kept appearing out of nowhere. Tobirama hasn't shown any greater sensory ability outside that trick.

,Not really when he did sense Madara's presence and Karin being an Uzumaki without it.