good for you all, but here i'm in trouble with my instincts, and always thinking that there is a lot of time when you ordained how long you can read scriptures, how many hours in the day you can study dhamma and meditate, and as monk what you will do the rest of the time, but first i have to deal with my sexual desire and food ( during retreat that damn McDonald sign become vivid! after some time i have to turn that into my nimitta ).

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.John Stuart Mill

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

meindzai wrote:Pretty much sealed that last week too since I got engaged.

Congratulations! (I think? - it feels like a funny sub-forum in which to say that...)

lol. I know, right? I had debated just making a general post about it in the lounge but it even felt wierd to announce it as if I was saying "Welp. Guess I'll be sticking around samsara a little while since I'm getting married soon." But I actually believe I'll make a better husband than monk. Having contemplated a celibate life before getting into a relationship, I can't even bare the thought of being anything less than completely loyal, faithful, and respectful of my partner. Marriage may be samsara but it doesn't have to be hell.

I actually empathize with you pilgrim, though or me it's a "grass is greener" scenario. When I'm at the monastery for awhile I start to miss home, and when I go home I start to wish I was at a monastery. Guess I am like the foolish, inexperienced mountain cow.

meindzai wrote:Pretty much sealed that last week too since I got engaged.

Congratulations! (I think? - it feels like a funny sub-forum in which to say that...)

lol. I know, right? I had debated just making a general post about it in the lounge but it even felt wierd to announce it as if I was saying "Welp. Guess I'll be sticking around samsara a little while since I'm getting married soon." But I actually believe I'll make a better husband than monk. Having contemplated a celibate life before getting into a relationship, I can't even bare the thought of being anything less than completely loyal, faithful, and respectful of my partner. Marriage may be samsara but it doesn't have to be hell.

-M

kinda what i did.. btw congrats!

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

acinteyyo wrote:
I'm incapable of breaking up with my girlfriend.
Sometimes it makes me sad, when I lose restraint, I'm really loving her but I know that it won't last.
I'm kind of caught between two stools.

LOL...reminds me of the Ajahn Chah story where the young monk kept pining for his ex-girlfriend. So Ajahn advised him to keep a little momento of her to pull out whenever he felt that way, a bottle of her faeces! ... .Caught between two stools..LOL

acinteyyo wrote:
I'm incapable of breaking up with my girlfriend.
Sometimes it makes me sad, when I lose restraint, I'm really loving her but I know that it won't last.
I'm kind of caught between two stools.

LOL...reminds me of the Ajahn Chah story where the young monk kept pining for his ex-girlfriend. So Ajahn advised him to keep a little momento of her to pull out whenever he felt that way, a bottle of her faeces! ... .Caught between two stools..LOL

lol... but unfortunately that wouldn't help, her faeces can't upset me that much. breaking up with my girlfriend means to break up with the whole life we built up together. I feel that it's my duty or that I've got some kind of commitment... rather that I'm responsible for her, since we built up our lives with each other based on our relationship. I dunno... think it's quite selfish. But I know that the responsibility I feel is also an excuse for myself. However sooner or later I'm going to leave the householders life, it's not a question about whether or not, but when.
best wishes, acinteyyo

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

What is holding me back is household obligations (I am the breadwinner here, too), but also my opinion that at the stage of the path I am on, I would just swap "layperson"-dukkha with "monastic"-dukkha.

I feel fortunate that - other than my obligations to earn our roof over the head and food on the table - I have all freedom in the world to practice.

So it is up to make the most of it (which I am not fully utilize yet) wherever I am.
And I am just not convinced that the monastic way is the only path to renunciation (I would be wondering of how much of monastic life is actually avoidance?)

It is my hope to ordain some day, but before I do that I must settle my debts, financial and otherwise, and if this life should end before I am able to ordain, then I hope to be able to do so in the next life as early on as possible once any remaining debts from this life if left unsettled upon its end, are satisfied.

Vardali wrote:And I am just not convinced that the monastic way is the only path to renunciation (I would be wondering of how much of monastic life is actually avoidance?)

It's an interesting perception, that.

I'm convinced that its anything but avoidance, for the reason that monastic life provides suitable conditions for mindfulness, concentration and analysis of dhammas. When one can dedicate themselves to more deeply examining the world (and remember that in the Buddha's parlance "the world", is nothing but the six senses or five aggregates of experience) they are actually coming face-to-face, deeply and directly with the world. On the other hand, true avoidance would be a lack of mindfulness. Avoidance would be shifting bodily positions without consciously realising one is doing so to alleviate some physical discomfort and so on... lack of mindfulness is a common trait in everyday society.

One's motivations for the monastic life may be attributable to avoidance, but the monastic way itself is certainly not one of avoidance - in fact, it is very much the opposite.

retrofuturist wrote:
One's motivations for the monastic life may be attributable to avoidance, but the monastic way itself is certainly not one of avoidance - in fact, it is very much the opposite.

Metta,
Retro.

I agree Retro. When one decides to leave the household life to monastic, he essentially decided to face his craving through the six sense base head on so he can conquer them and cleanse his mind of defilements toward liberation. Monks are not avoiding anything, they are taking up the fight against ignorance, although some people might ordain because they are running away from something. I guess one have to understand their own motive.

Retro, I am sure that monastic life allows you a more stringent focus on all aspects of practise. That's deffo a plus

Perhaps my opinion - and it is nothing more than that - is biased from the impression I have gotten from my Christian background, but it appears to me that a key component of monastic life is to minimize "temptation". And while I'm aware that there is much more to practise, I hope the following example illustrates my personal unreadiness with the monastic approach.

I mean, a whole lot of practise is aiming at guarding the sense-doors. One way obviously is by strengthening the "internal" guards and level of awareness. The other is by minimizing exposure. That to me, this latter part feels a bit like a cop-out, like removing options to ensure that one doesn't pick the "wrong" choice. By doing so, you may start feeling confident that you have mastered some restraint, even though this is just based on lack of opportunity. I want to be sure I can overcome craving and clinging while it is a very real "threat", or I cannot feel I have safely mastered this challenge.

If your path in that respect is clear and you do not have such reservations, good for you I, myself, just want to make sure I'm not falling into a "the grass is greener on the othe side" of practise of an -perhaps - idealised perception of renunciate lifestyle that leads to a illusionary sense of "safety" due more to lack of options/choice rather than proper safeguarding mind and sense-doors.

This is just part of it, though, but I am afraid I cannot make my personal concern much clearer than that

Vardali wrote:
I mean, a whole lot of practise is aiming at guarding the sense-doors. One way obviously is by strengthening the "internal" guards and level of awareness. The other is by minimizing exposure. That to me, this latter part feels a bit like a cop-out, like removing options to ensure that one doesn't pick the "wrong" choice. :

How is it a cop out? I understanding your explanation, but I don't understand why that's a bad thing...

metta
Jack

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta