[quote="Up the Junction]With no records to confirm either way, it's just as likely to have come from our association with Castle Swifts in which case it's as relevant (and aged) as the crossed hammers.[/quote]

HistoryThe club rented Green Street House and grounds in the Municipal Borough of East Ham from the Roman Catholic Church from around 1912.[2] Green Street House was known locally as Boleyn Castle because of its imposing nature and an association with Anne Boleyn, who had either stayed at, or as some believe, owned the house, the ground is said to be haunted by one of her maids who died in childbirth. Hence renting the grounds of "Boleyn Castle" the name Boleyn Ground came into being. Today the ground is far more commonly known as Upton Park, after the Upton Park, London area in which it is located.

In August 1944, a V-1 flying bomb landed on the south-west corner of the pitch. This forced the team to play its games away from home while repairs were undertaken, but it did not affect performances as West Ham managed nine consecutive victories. Upon their return to the ground in December, they lost 1–0 to Tottenham Hotspur. The record attendance is 42,322, against Tottenham Hotspur in a Division One (Old) match on 17 October 1970, when the North and South Banks were terraced, as was the old 'Chicken Run' to the front of the East Stand. The record attendance at Upton Park since it has become an all-seater is 35,550, recorded against Manchester City on 21 September 2002 in a Premier League match.

As stated by many on here it is a part of our history and if it ain't broke....

1. You seem to talk for the world on how they know us as the 'Hammers' and that a new badge would make more sense to them (who gives a f*ck if they don't get our badge)2. Massive transfer fees and wages gets you the bigger players (you know the sort of money we'll never have as we haven't been steeped in a 'successful' history or had a mega rich investor willing to part his own cash into us) THEN you market the club and get decent revenue from it.3. The badge now for some reason has to be 'geographically correct' so i'll call it GC instead eh?4. I will question your support because your 'business head' says change the badge so they can mug us off again with new merch.

A pair of crossed hammers is a much more striking image, and is the key part of our identity - Thames Ironworks, nicknamed the hammers etc. I know we all know that the club crest is a pair of hammers set over a castle backdrop, but I'd be surprised if that many people outside the club really notice - be honest, how closely do you REALLY look at other club's logos? Take Man U, the most famous club in the world - who can name what's in the centre of their club crest? And if it does represent the Boleyn area then it doesn't necessarily make sense to keep it on after we've gone.

It's never going to happen, but I actually don't think stripping it back to just the pair of hammers is a terrible idea. Plus, they ruined the castles for me the day they put up the dodgy MDF turrets outside Upton Park. That's what I associate them with these days

Side of Ham wrote:1. You seem to talk for the world on how they know us as the 'Hammers' and that a new badge would make more sense to them (who gives a f*ck if they don't get our badge)2. Massive transfer fees and wages gets you the bigger players (you know the sort of money we'll never have as we haven't been steeped in a 'successful' history or had a mega rich investor willing to part his own cash into us) THEN you market the club and get decent revenue from it.3. The badge now for some reason has to be 'geographically correct' so i'll call it GC instead eh?4. I will question your support because your 'business head' says change the badge so they can mug us off again with new merch.

1 I never said a new badge would make more sense to anybody - you have not read my posts correctly - I said it would be an opportunity given the free airtime we will get.2 Yes, but marketing is a constant thing. Have you ever been in a marketing meeting when someone has said "actually everything is ticking along nicely. I don't think we need to do any marketing just now." I wouldn't be in business if I didn't constantly come up with new marketing ideas.3 Never said the badge had to be geographically correct.4 Question all you like, you'll be wrong. I'm simply pointing out that there are very sound marketing reasons for a change which will add to the clubs coffers as well as link in with a unique PR opportunity. Wanting the best for the club is now being disloyal is it?

My personal opinion is that we should remove it. My view is that the castle represents the area in which the current ground is situated and not the club itself.

In short, I'm saying we should revert back to the old crest.

wrong,, i did read every page,,,,, this above comment made me laugh the most. going by the above comments we would have no badge then because the crossed hammers are ship builders rivet hammers, obviously date back to the iron works in canning town, so if we drop the castle because we leave green st, then the hammers go because were not in canning town either.perhaps he thinks we should stop chanting come on you irons as this again a reference to a past we have left behind.

Dieter Eckstein wrote:Just loooking at the previous shirts on the old kits website it's clear that the castle has come and gone a few times and hasn't always been associated with some of our classic teams. For example, there was no castle on the shirt in the early to mid-sixties, which I suppose a lot of people would associate with all that's good about the West Ham tradition.

I wouldn't go mad if they just went to a pair of hammers, but judging by the response to his thread, it'd be a bit of a PR blunder if they went completely out with the old to tie in with the stadium move. Probably best keep the castle then.

The thing is we have seen in our history that the castle is a dispensable part of our crest. For me, the club needs to strengthen the club's image and the crossed Hammers represent a good way of achieving us in the new era of post 2014.

People are often against change because they known no different, the fans of West Ham teams long, long ago appeared to associated the team through the crossed Hammers and not the castle. A more striking image allows the club to highlight it's history with more ease to a new generation.

I had to laugh at the suggestion that we need to keep a castle on our badge so that the Somalian Hammers don't forget who we are. Football clubs are not recognisable solely by their badge. More specifically by their players and their club colours.

Pretty much everyone that drones on endlessly about 'tradition' and 'heritage' will be on their death bed in a few (ok, maybe more than a few) years, clutching a picture of Syd Puddefoot and feeling a faint stirring in their perma-flaccid cock when they proudly tell their Arsenal supporting Grandchild how they preserved the memory of [now bankrupt, second division] West Ham United. How he represented West Ham's roots in East London [refusing to up sticks to Somalia where the other West Ham fan lives] even though everyone else in his area now supports Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal.

Like it or not, we need supporters. You'll all be dead in 40 years. Your stubbornness would leave my generation with an undeveloped football club with less and less fans as the years pass by. I want my Son and his future kids and his kids future kids to follow West Ham. I don't care what West Ham looks like, as long as it's West Ham. We have museums (and nowadays we also have things called online archives) that anyone wanting to bathe in the glory of our former years can peruse should they so desire. If we want to continue as a football club (and note I said "continue" not "progress") then we need to modernise to continue attracting new fans.

I have formulated an equation to help with this:

Old = ****. Modern = good.

In answer to Trap's question: Yeah, I think it'd look nicer back in the traditional manner with just the crossed hammers....

Aceface wrote:Had to drop the United for lack of space otherwise we would have had a Disco Stu situation....

Thanks for having a go though mate!

steptoe61 wrote:Looks like a ****ing school uniform badge!

It does actually!!

Aceface:Can you make it a circle design with a light blue circle around it and yellow lines either side of the West Ham writing rather than the blue going across?? Can you not reduce the text so you can fit 'United' in?