David: I was talking with you about another book that you wrote, “Kennedy's Last Stand”, and so I'd like to open with that for this episode.

Michael: Well, the book really goes into what Kennedy knew about this whole topic. And the thing that . . .

David: What whole topic?

Michael: The topic of UFOs, flying saucers.

David: Oh.

Michael: Kennedy was very interested in that, and so the book looks at his history of trying to find out about it. But one of the things that I did in that book was, I was able to find out that, early in his career, Kennedy was actually a protege of James Forrestal, who at the time was the Secretary of the Navy.

Corey: The Navy, yeah.

Michael: And so Forrestal took Kennedy . . . This was before Kennedy became a congressman or even entered politics. And Forrestal, at the time, wanted to recruit Kennedy to his personal staff.

So Forrestal took Kennedy on a fact-finding trip to Germany in July and August of 1945. So this is after the war.

You had the Navy there, the Army there, basically pouring over everything that the Nazis were developing in terms of secret technologies and trying to find out what it was that they were going to bring back under Operation Paperclip – scientists and technologies.

So Forrestal . . .

David: So even though they fled to Antarctica, it wasn't like they got everything out.

Michael: Exactly, yeah. The Germans still had a lot of really advanced stuff down there. Certainly, as far as the Air Force and the Navy were concerned, the stuff that the Germans were working on in occupied Europe was just way ahead of anything they had.

So the Navy was there trying to work out what it was that they should ship back to the U.S. to work on in their top secret laboratories.

David: Let me ask you this. Did the U.S. have captured German soldiers and scientists who were telling them what was there? Or were they just going into an abandoned building and then trying to poke around and look for things?

Michael: Oh, they had both. They had a lot of scientists, engineers, that were trying to cut a deal, trying to get a favorable place to live, or maybe even get repatriated to whatever country they were originally from, or even to the U.S., . . .

David: Right.

Michael: . . . people that had documents that wanted to cut a deal. People knew where the secret laboratories were.

So you had all of this happening, and so the Navy and the Army had their top intelligence teams in there trying to sift out exactly what was available.

David: All right. Sorry to interrupt, but I think this is really important, too.

In case people are younger, they don't understand this, Kennedy is not just an ordinary family. We have a background on the Kennedys in which Joseph Kennedy, the father of all the Kennedy brothers, was well-known as a bootlegger, and had made a significant fortune.

Michael: Well, yeah. He was a very successful businessman. I mean, he did a number of things, and bootlegging during prohibition was one of the things.

David: Right.

Michael: But he's probably best known for being the ambassador for the U.S. to England just before the Second World War.

David: Okay.

Michael: And he was also, along with James Forrestal, the . . . he became the first, I think, it's the President of the Securities and Exchange Commission.

David: Oh, really?

Michael: So this was . . . So he was really at the apex of the financial system in the U.S. at the time.

David: Right, because the SEC is what's regulating the whole stocks and commodities markets, and all that.

Corey: Yeah. And the tie-in to Forrestal is obvious. Forrestal pops up in ufology everywhere.

David: MJ-12, right?

Michael: Right, yeah. He was on the MJ-12 committee. And Forrestal, he was the guy that worked for a major financial company Dillon and Read. And so he was picked by the Navy, by Roosevelt, to actually help the Navy prepare for the war, because he had the expertise, the knowledge of major scale industrial manufacturing, and the Navy needed to really change in order to deal with the pressure of fighting two wars.

Corey: There are some interesting tie-ins between Forrestal and William Tompkins, are there not?

Michael: Very important. According to William Tompkins, Forrestal was the guy that picked the admiral that would run the top secret Navy program that was going to be trying to get as much information as they could on what the Nazis were doing, in terms of secret space technologies.

And Forrestal was also the guy that somehow was influenced by Nordics to pick Rico Botta to actually play this role.

So Forrestal was in communication with these Nordic extraterrestrials. And that's a part of what I discuss in the new book, “The U.S. Navy's Secret Space Program”, the way in which Nordics extraterrestrials were helping the U.S. Navy, right across the spectrum in terms of – from the very beginning to the very end – in the Navy's developing a secret space program.

David: Do you think that at the time that Forrestal is bringing Kennedy over to this very recently defeated Germany, to get into all the good stuff, do you think they already had a plan with Joe Kennedy that his sons were going to run for president?

Michael: Well, that may have been a factor in why John F. Kennedy didn't accept Forrestal's offer . . .

David: Oh, he didn't?

Michael: . . . to join his personal staff, because Forrestal wanted to recruit Kennedy to his personal staff, and because Jack Kennedy died and – you know, his brother, his older brother died – the father, Joe Kennedy, wanted John F. Kennedy to now enter politics.

David: Oh.

Michael: And so that was why Kennedy turned down Forrestal's offer to be a part of his personal staff, and Kennedy then entered politics instead and became a congressman – elected to Congress in 1946.

David: Well, do you see, in your research in “Kennedy's Last Stand”, any other evidence that Kennedy was actually given briefings or was made aware of some of what was going on with the extraterrestrial question?

Michael: Well, not so much as far as the extraterrestrial question is concerned, but as far as Nazi Germany's advanced programs, he was given access to all of it. I mean, he knew what . . .

David: Really?

Michael: . . . was going on, that Forrestal actually was showing Kennedy all of these advanced technologies and Kennedy wrote about it in a book that was published posthumously, called “Prelude to Leadership”.

Not many people know about this book . . .

David: Never heard of it.

Michael: . . . but it's a book, written by John F. Kennedy, about his time in occupied Europe, and in Germany, in particular. But the important thing to keep in mind here is that at that same time as Forrestal was showing Kennedy all of these captured German technologies, that Forrestal was the guy that was ultimately in charge of the Navy's secret espionage program in Nazi Germany, where they were getting all of this intel about Germany having two secret space programs.

And so Forrestal was looking, on behalf of the Navy, for anything that he could find about Germany's secret space programs.

And so that meant that Kennedy knew about all of this, as well.

David: Right.

Michael: And so this is an important historical fact that that book really articulates, that because of Kennedy's exposure to this whole phenomenon of advanced UFOs, flying saucers, extraterrestrial life – the kind of information Forrestal was sharing with him - because of that, when Kennedy became president in January 1961, that Kennedy really made an effort to get to the bottom of this whole phenomenon and really get power back, in terms of the president running these secret projects, rather than the projects becoming autonomous, as happened under Eisenhower.

David: All right. I want to ask you one more question about Eisenhower, and then I want to toss it back to Corey for a clarification.

We know that Eisenhower ordered this invasion of Area 51, as we talked about in our last episode. And in his infamous closing remarks as he leaves office, he warns about the acquisition of unwarranted influence, either sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex, and then he hands it over to Kennedy.

Have you researched whether there was a conversation between Eisenhower and Kennedy about what Eisenhower had experienced in that transition of power?

Michael: Well, we know from official records that Kennedy met with President Eisenhower twice while Kennedy was President-elect, that they met in December and in January.

And the January event was just a couple of days, two or three days, before the farewell address. So I think it's fair to assume that whatever Eisenhower shared publicly is much, much less than what he shared privately with Kennedy.

David: Now, you've undoubtedly done research on this idea that some kind of benevolent extraterrestrial group met with Eisenhower.

So for those who are not familiar with that, could you just talk a little bit about your knowledge of the Ike and ETs event?

Michael: Sure. Well, I think that there's so many different whistleblowers who've come forward and witnesses, that we can kind of get an idea of the chronology of these different meetings that Eisenhower was a part of.

That starting in February of 1954, that Eisenhower traveled to Edwards Air Force Base, and he met with a positive group of extraterrestrials – what Bill Tompkins describes as Nordic extraterrestrials – and they kind of really emphasized to him the dangers of developing nuclear weapons – thermal nuclear weapons at that time were being deployed; these were hydrogen bombs – and that the Eisenhower administration should follow a more peaceful policy and be open to receiving more spiritual, more ethical information.

Eisenhower, I think, personally, was very impressed by the Nordics, but his national security team said, “No, we're not going to give up nuclear weapons, and we're not going to listen to this kind of spiritual, ethical upliftment talk at all.”

So then Eisenhower met with another group of extraterrestrials in February of 1955, this time at Holloman Air Force Base, and this was a group of Grey extraterrestrials, tall Greys, that basically reached agreements with Eisenhower in terms of sharing their technologies.

The Greys weren't too perturbed that the U.S. was developing thermal nuclear weapons, and so that's where the agreements began with the Greys.

David: The alleged Tau IX Treaty that led to the formalizing of abductions and all that.

Michael: Right, exactly. And this, of course, all happened after the flyovers in 1952, the Washington flyovers, where you had those craft flying over.

And, of course, the big debate is, were they extraterrestrial or were they Nazi? And, of course, we've had different stories on that, but what Bill Tompkins and what Corey have said, as well as Clark McClelland, is that these were Nazi craft.

And so that suggests that the subsequent meetings that happened, these were . . . The agreement that happened after the Holloman Air Force Base was with a group that was allied with the Nazis.

And interestingly, one of the witnesses that was at Holloman Air Force Base in 1955, he actually referred to that Nazi element.

David: All right. So Corey, what was your personal knowledge of extraterrestrial contacts with presidents? When did that first start? Did anything happen with Truman? Did anything happen with Eisenhower, in terms of what you were told, yourself, on the inside?

Corey: There were meetings with Truman and Eisenhower. Eisenhower was meeting with groups that he mentioned, non-terrestrial groups, as well as one called the Blues.

He had a number of meetings where Nazis flew in in these flying saucers, landed it on bases, and came out and had meetings with, I mean, actual Nazis, as well.

David: And we've briefly touched on the Blues before, but this is a fascinating area for me because I was able to independently confirm what you said with Pete Peterson.

So could you describe for us, why were they called the Blues? What did they say and how was it taken?

Corey: They were called the Blues because they had blue skin, and their agenda was peaceful.

Much like the Nordics, they were advising us not to dabble in nuclear energy or weaponry. They also were giving us spiritually uplifting information, information about consciousness, stuff that the military really had no use for.

And much later on, they were referred to, and the Nordics, they refer to them, jokingly, as 'space hippies'. Although there were no hippies in the 1940s, later on they were called that.

David: What was the deal that the Blues were offering? What would we have to do to get their cooperation?

Corey: Give up nuclear weapons. Give up the pursuit of nuclear weapons.

David: But what would be the payoff for us if we did? What were they offering as the carrot?

Corey: To begin to help us spiritually, to integrate with other civilizations.

David: Now, you had mentioned very briefly Clark McClelland, and that's just popped up on the radar screen recently in a new insider correlation with Tompkins.

And I'm sure you're familiar with that, so could you share with us how McClelland has suddenly popped into the story?

Michael: Well, with Clark McClelland, he was a spacecraft operator for NASA at the end of his career. Prior to that, he worked for about three decades for various NASA contractors.

So he had a bird's-eye view of what was happening at NASA, and so he was able to confirm what Bill Tompkins had to say, that NASA had been infiltrated by Nazis.

Clark McClelland, for example, said that when he went to the office of Kurt Debus, who was the first Director of the Kennedy Space Center, that McClelland met Hans Kammler.

And Kammler was the Nazi SS General that ran their Secret Space Program in occupied Europe, trying to weaponize the technologies – the Die Glocke or the Nazi Bell – that Kammler was in charge of all of this.

So here you have Kammler, in the 1960s, at the Kennedy Space Center meeting with the director.

And so McClelland was able to confirm that that was actually happening, and so that was confirmation, or really strong corroboration, for what Bill Tompkins was saying about the way in which the Nazis continued to have this undue influence over the entire NASA space program, and had actually infiltrated the military-industrial complex.

And that's one of the things that Tompkins says, that the military-industrial complex – various companies and various military organizations – found themselves almost in a kind of proxy war between these different extraterrestrial factions: the Nazi Reptilian group that were trying to infiltrate and take over the U.S. military-industrial complex, and then another group, the Nordic extraterrestrials, who identified the Navy as really being the one U.S. institution that was kind of much more aligned, or supportive, of U.S. constitutional values.

David: For those who are watching this show who are not familiar with Clark McClelland, I know what his background is, but I'd like for you to share in your words.

What was the big sizzle – his testimony about the Space Shuttle going back years ago – that we've all encountered?

Michael: Well, what he did was, he actually said that he saw on the NASA live feed, an incident involving the Space Shuttle, where there was another craft parked near the Space Shuttle – another spacecraft – and there was at least two different types of astronauts accompanying the NASA astronauts, or the Space Shuttle astronauts, who were out there doing a space walk.

He compared the size of these astronauts from this foreign spacecraft. They were around 10-foot tall compared to the NASA astronauts.

So he had a diagram illustrating what he had seen, and so he spoke at length about this as being evidence that there was a Secret Space Program program with alien astronauts that were somehow collaborating with the NASA space program.

David: So one of the things that you've gotten into, in some of your more recent work, is this idea of how the fictional tales that are told in movies, and comic books, and now video games, of course, regular books by science fiction authors, like Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, how were they being influenced by what was going on from the things you've learned firsthand talking to Tompkins and other insiders?

Michael: Well, one of the people that Bill Tompkins identified as being a key player in the Navy's development of a secret space program was Admiral Leslie Stevens.

Now, Admiral Stevens, he was actually a contemporary of Admiral Botta, who was running the Navy program out of San Diego, learning all about the Nazi space program.

And what I've been able to determine is that, through Freedom of Information Act [FOIA], that Stevens and Botta actually served together on at least one committee.

So this was something that really supported what Bill Tompkins was saying, that Stevens was involved in this and was very familiar with the Navy's Secret Space Program.

Well, the important thing about Admiral Stevens is that he had a son who had the same name, Leslie Stevens, so Leslie Stevens IV. He was the producer of the famous show, “The Outer Limits”.

And at that time, around 1964, '65, Gene Roddenberry sat in on the set of “The Outer Limits”, to kind of learn from Leslie Stevens how to put together a science fiction show.

David: Wow! Let me interrupt you just really briefly because this is amazing. So I'm sitting with one of my insiders, who we call Daniel, and he's the guy that allegedly worked at Montauk, where they back-engineered a seat from a UFO, got it working, and you could sit in the chair, meditate and create a portal that could actually send people through space and time.

And one day he was talking about what happens when you use some of these technologies, and it creates a little orb that can look where you want to have it look.

And he said that the name of this thing was an “outer band individuated teletracer” or OBIT.

And we go online, and I just said, “Hey man, let's just look this up right now, and see if . . . has anybody ever leaked this information?”

“The Outer Limits” . . .

Michael: Exactly.

David: . . . had an episode called “Outer Band Individuated Teletracer” - exactly the same. And then, the actual description of it was that it was a device that could do all surveillance in all places at all times.

So that showed me right away, okay, “The Outer Limits” has got to have some kind of insider connection.

Michael: And one of the things about Leslie Stevens' father, the Admiral, he actually ran the psychological warfare operations for the National Security Council.

David: Wow!

Michael: So he was in charge of that. And Leslie Stevens IV, the producer of “The Outer Limits”, his background was military intelligence. So he actually served for military intelligence, and because of his expertise, I believe that what he did during the Second World War was psychological warfare operations.

So then what I've been able to deduce from my research – and it's in the new book – is that Leslie Stevens IV was basically working with his father, up until his father's death, in psychological warfare operations, in trying to introduce some of these breakthrough ideas as a form of soft disclosure in the media and entertainment industry.

So when we have “The Outer Limits” being created, you have Gene Roddenberry sitting in on it after the failure of a series that he had earlier put together, which was called “The Lieutenant”.

So it was all about a Navy lieutenant. So that flopped. It only lasted, I think, one year, possibly two years.

And so Roddenberry was advised by his agent to come up with a science fiction show.

So he sat in on “The Outer Limits”, and according to people that were there, Roddenberry and Stevens had reached an information agreement, in terms of Roddenberry would get all the information from Stevens about developing his science fiction series, and he would get all the credit – that he wouldn't mention Stevens.

David: Wow!

Michael: And that's exactly what happened. And so then we have, of course, the creation of “Star Trek”.

And if you look at “Star Trek”, some of the main forces, there's an uncanny parallel with the main groups that Bill Tompkins was talking about.

So in “Star Trek” you have the Confederation of Planets. You have the Vulcans. The Vulcans, we can compare them to say the Nordic extraterrestrials, trying to help humanity.

You also have the Klingons, who would be represented by the Reptilians today.

David: Wow! Okay.

Michael: And then you have the genetically enhanced humans, which were the Nazis.

So if you look at the development of “Star Trek” as a series, the main protagonist in that series, there's an uncanny resemblance to the major extraterrestrial groups and factions, Earth factions, that were involved in these secret space programs right throughout the 1940s, '50s and '60s.

David: So another show that really pops up in my mind, Michael, is “Battlestar Galactica”.

Did your research turn up anything about “Battlestar Gallactica”?

Michael: Well, what was really significant about “Battlestar Gallactica” was that the creator of “Battlestar Galactica” was Glen Larson.

And Glen Larson actually worked under Leslie Stevens.

David: Oh, really?

Michael: He worked with him. They shared a lot of talent. Leslie Stevens was the senior, and so Larson had reached a similar kind of agreement with Leslie Stevens where Stevens would come up with ideas and help Larson in developing a science fiction show.

And what's interesting – and this we've learned from people who have later on interviewed key people that were involved in the creation of “Battlestar Galactica” - was that the pilot episode of “Battlestar Galactica” was actually written by Leslie Stevens IV.

David: Really?

Michael: So you actually have the son of a Navy Admiral that was involved in the Navy's Secret Space Program, writing the pilot episode for a new sci-fi series that he would not get any credit for, but would actually go under the control and be all credited to Glenn Larson.

David: Wow!

Michael: And so, again, this kind of shows that the Navy, through Leslie Stevens, was wanting to have these ideas, the truth of a Navy Secret Space Program and different forms of extraterrestrial life, including artificial intelligence, because that's what “Battlestar Galactica” really focuses on, is the danger of artificial intelligence.

And so Glen Larson, in that series, just developed the whole idea of extraterrestrials that are having to deal with this conflict with different AI life forms who are intent on eradicating the human creators of that life form throughout the galaxy.

And this is something that kind of dovetails with what Corey has revealed. I remember Corey talking to great length about the danger posed by artificial intelligence, and how AI was screened by the different secret space programs because of the threat.

So this, again, is just confirmation that this was very real material that was being seeded into the public domain through these movies.

David: Do you think . . .

Corey: The truth is definitely stranger than fiction.

David: Do you think that this Leslie Stevens connection is why you hear Naval whistles when people walk into the room on “Star Trek”?

Michael: Oh, definitely. Yeah, I mean, you look at “Star Trek” itself, I mean, it's all based on this, kind of like, . . . they use Navy procedures and the rankings are Navy.

David: Right.

Michael: The Star Fleet – they talk about Star Fleet Command and all of that. So, yeah, they use a lot of Navy terminology in “Star Trek”, and I believe that's because the Navy was getting Stevens to leak this stuff out into the public arena through soft disclosure.

Because I think what the Navy really thought, through the 1960s, that eventually, by the time that they had finished building their battle groups that were deployed in the early 1980s, that disclosure would have happened by then.

David: Oh.

Michael: So I think that “Star Trek” was part of an effort by the Navy to kind of seed these ideas into the public consciousness, so that at some time in the future, when the truth was revealed that the Navy had the know-how to build these space battle groups, that the public would come on board and support it, and so the Navy could continue to develop this and expand it.

David: So Michael, I have some documents here that show some really amazing work that you've done in terms of taking the Tompkins' story that we've all been dealing with now, and bringing it into this Freedom of Information Act academic research arena that ufology is known for.

So the first one that you have here . . . it's from U.S. Naval Air Station San Diego signed by Rico Botta.

So what's going on here with this particular document?

Michael: Well, with this document, this was something that William Tompkins put into his book, “Selected by Extraterrestrials”, and basically these were exit slips that he could use to be able to leave Naval Air Station San Diego with documents, with briefing packets, which is a key part of his story.

David: Right.

Michael: But in terms of verifying, well, is this real? Are these exit passes real? Do they have information on them that can be independently corroborated?

So that's what I tried to do, and I used the FOIA Information Act documents that I received to corroborate that these exit passes were actually signed by a person who actually was in charge of Naval Air Station San Diego at the time that Tompkins said that he received the permission to take these packages out. And then that, of course, concerns Rico Botta.

David: It says here that it was for “issue of non-combat airplane.” Ha, ha.

Michael: Well, that's right.

David: So what the heck is that?

Michael: Yeah, well, what that document shows is that Tompkins not only was given permission to take these briefing packets out of Naval Air Station San Diego, but he was also given permission to use a plane – to take an actual non-combat plane that was owned by the Admiral – to deliver these packages.

So this is corroborating a key part of Tompkins' story that he took these different briefing packets to various aerospace companies throughout the U.S., especially the west coast of the U.S. at the time, the different military departments and so forth.

David: Okay, now here we have a photograph of Rico Botta, Lieutenant Commander of the U.S. Navy, August 27, 1934, and then his signature.

And what's so interesting about this, Michael, is that in this next document you showed us, you have compared that signature on that photograph to the signature that was on the release for the packages, and they're basically identical. I mean, it's the same signature.

So how did you get this picture of Rico Botta? Where did that come from? Let's talk about that first.

Michael: Well, that picture of Rico Botta, that came from his Freedom of Information Act files, the 1,500 pages of documents that I received.

David: So you filed for them, and you actually got them in the mail?

Michael: I filed with the aid of an attorney.

David: Okay.

Michael: His name is Duke Brookhouse and he has been helping with these FOIA requests.

And so, when we got the documents, I went through them and identified the ones that helped corroborate key elements of Tompkins' story.

So this particular document, with his signature and his photo – even though it's dated from the early 1930s – clearly shows that the signature is identical with what was on those exit passes that Tompkins gave.

So that is independent corroboration that Tompkins' document is genuine. And that's very important that you actually . . . Tompkins' exit passes . . . those two exit passes showing that he had permission to take these briefing packets out of San Diego Naval Air Station, that that's a genuine document.

So that's a very important part of corroborating his story that he was able to take these to different facilities, and that he was given permission to actually use an airplane to fly these to the different locations.

David: Okay. Now, the next one here, it says Navy Department, Bureau of Navigation, Washington, D.C., dated September 30, 1942, from the Chief of Naval Personnel to Captain Rico Botta.

And the thing that really jumps out at me here, it says, “Proceed to the place (or places – in the order given) indicated below, for temporary duty.”

And then you look down here, it says that this is “in connection with inspecting experimental aircraft and for conferences in connection with [David clears his throat to emphasize this part] aircraft matters:”

Then you get this list of “U.S. Army Air Force Experimental Station, Muroc, which we've all heard about the Muroc base, Douglas Aircraft, Northrop, Naval Air Station, San Diego, Consolidated Aircraft Corporation, San Diego.”

This is crazy. What is he talking about with “experimental aircraft and conferences in connection with aircraft matters?”

Michael: Well, this is, again, another document that independently corroborates various aspects of Tompkins' testimony, that Tompkins says that he was taking these briefing packets to those facilities, as well as many others.

So this document confirms that Botta, prior to this operation that Botta oversaw in Naval Air San Diego, Botta had traveled to some of these same facilities, and that these facilities were conducting experimental aircraft research. And that Botta was the Navy's guy when it came to understanding experimental aircraft research, and that Botta was being prepped for this new assignment, because visiting those facilities happened less than two months before he was transferred over to Naval Air Station San Diego.

So he was being prepped for that new assignment coming up, where he would be receiving intelligence from Navy spies in Germany about the Germans' secret space programs. And that once he received the intelligence from the Navy spies, that he would then instruct Tompkins to carry briefing packets to those facilities that you just mentioned, as well as many others that Tompkins said.

So, you know, again, this is another important document that independently verifies that Bill Tompkins' story is credible. And, of course, . . .

David: How did we get this document?

Michael: That came through the Freedom of Information Act.

David: Okay, so another document we have here is dated February 25, 1942, which, for the real UFO freaks, you're going to know that, because that is immediately after the infamous Battle of Los Angeles.

And what we're having here is Navy Department, Bureau of Aeronautics, from Washington, and it is orders for Rico Botta to have additional temporary duty. And it says for him to proceed, on about March 2, 1942, to Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio, i.e. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

Michael: Exactly.

David: Holy crap! This is amazing!

Corey: Smoking document!

David: Ha, ha. I just want to throw it across the room, it's so crazy. It's like, wow! So talk . . . I know what I'm seeing here, but talk us through, in case people aren't as excited as I am right now, as to why this is so significant.

Michael: Well, February 24 and 25, 1942, is when you had the famous L.A. Air Raid incident. And according to documents that have been released, The Majestic Documents, and according to what Bill Tompkins has said, there were two flying saucers that were retrieved after that crash – one by the Navy, one by the Army Air Force.

David: So some of them did get shot down.

Michael: That's what we're told by The Majestic Documents and what Bill Tompkins said.

Now, the one that the Army Air Force got their hands on was taken to Wright Field, which was, at the time, the Army Air Force's premier research facility for foreign aviation technologies.

David: “Foreign.” Yeah, ha, ha.

Michael: So this was taken, . . . or this craft was retrieved, on February 25, and it was being taken to Wright Field at that time.

Now, on this very same day, Admiral Botta, who is the head of the Navy's Powerplant Division at the Bureau of Aeronautics, gets orders to travel to Wright Field in early March, to basically do some work over there.

David: Right.

Michael: And the timing . . .

David: It says, “In connection with engine development.” on the same document. What kinds of engines are they trying to develop here?

Michael: Right, so . . .

David: Probably anti-gravity. So, yeah.

Michael: So that's a smoking gun document . . .

David: That's incredible.

Michael: . . . that really shows that Botta was the guy that the Navy had tapped as their expert in understanding these foreign technologies – anything to do with extraterrestrial craft or Nazi craft – that Botta was the man.

And so he was nominated to go to Wright Field to really look over what it was that the Army Air Force had gotten their hands on from the L.A. Raid.

Corey: And did you say that, in an earlier conversation we had, that Rico Botta was an engineer?

Michael: That's correct. Yes, he was an engineer. He was an expert on engine development, on power plants.

Corey: Power plants.

Michael: He was, actually at the time, the Chief of the Power Plant Division for the Bureau of Aeronautics. So he was the guy that really understood what it was that needed to be done in terms of developing high-capacity engines for high-performance aviation maneuvers.

And so if you're talking about craft that were capable of spaceflight, he was the guy that would be able to give you insights into that.

So it's clearly . . . You have documents here saying that he's involved in upgrading the quality of technology of combat aircraft engines and energy technologies.

Michael: Right. Exactly. That was his duty while he was working at Naval Air Station San Diego from 1942 to 1946, that he was the assembly and repair officer.

And so his job was to basically upgrade the performance of all the Navy jet fighter craft.

And in addition to that, he was also learning about what it was that the Nazis were doing in developing jet engines and also trying to weaponize flying saucers, because you had to consider that the Navy had to be prepared that the Nazis were going to succeed in developing weaponized flying saucers.

So the Navy was looking to Botta to provide the expertise and the leadership for how to deal with that contingency. But it didn't happen, fortunately, but Botta was the guy that the Navy had tapped to lead that effort.

David: You also have actually interviewed people associated with Rico Botta, and so could you tell us a little about that and what, in just a few minutes, is the most interesting takeaway of your research, up until now, in that department?

Michael: Well, I've been able to have conversations with the grandson of Rico Botta, who was able to confirm some really interesting things about Botta's contacts with the leaders of the aviation industry at the time, that he was personal friends with Jack Northrup and William Boeing, that Botta was also someone that continued to meet with senior Navy officials.

One official that was named was Admiral Mark Hill, who was Botta's military aide while Botta was the head of the Navy's Armaments Section at Philadelphia Naval Shipyards, that Mark Hill was helping Botta there as his military aide, and that after Botta retired, that Mark Hill, as an active officer and he became a Rear Admiral himself, continued to visit with Botta and have conversations.

And so, to me, that's pretty strong evidence that Botta's insights and knowledge about these very advanced technologies was something that was being shared, even up until the time of his retirement and subsequent death, with very senior Navy officials.

David: What do you think is going to happen with this forensic reconstruction of history in time? Will we be able to eventually get new insiders, and new whistleblowers, and really get a reconstructed view of 20th century history? Do you think that will happen?

Michael: Oh, definitely. Yeah. I think that's what's happening now, is we're starting to get the chronology of how the Navy developed its Secret Space Program, involving these enormous space battle groups, and that as these names are identified, and we start to track down relatives or others that worked with them, we're probably going to find others that are willing to talk about what it was that they experienced.

So we're trying to do that now, and I'm hoping that in this investigation of Admiral Mark Hill and Admiral Botta and his relatives, that we're going to have more names popping up.

David: Corey, do you have any last thoughts before we close the episode?

Corey: It's been amazing to me, the entire process of Tompkins coming out. He's literally providing the information, or a lot of the information, I observed in the glass pad. And to see someone come out that was giving that intel, or delivering that intel, it's a very strange synchronicity.

And the fact that he had no idea I was coming forward – all of it seems orchestrated.

David: And we're now getting this actual nuts and bolts documentation – connecting dots, interviewing survivors – to actually show forensic reconstruction of the whole history of what led up to you eventually being in something that most people think is just completely outrageous and beyond belief.

Corey: Absolutely. And Dr. Salla's latest research is just bolstering it more and more.

David: Well, I want to thank you, Michael, for coming in. I think these are really groundbreaking episodes that will be of extreme historical importance as we get into Full Disclosure.

And I want to honor you for your contributions in really bringing the academic spectrum in on this whole question of our “Cosmic Disclosure” show.

Michael: Thank you, David. It's been a pleasure. And thanks, Corey.

Corey: Thank you.

David: Thank you. And I want to thank you out there for watching. You are a very important part of “Cosmic Disclosure”. With your support, telling your friends about it, we are lifting the laughter curtain. We are bringing real academic interest into something that was so far outside the norm of what UFO researchers used to talk about, and yet, as you're seeing, it all adds up beautifully.

This is “Cosmic Disclosure”. I'm your host, David Wilcock, here with Corey Goode, and our special guest, from Exopolitics Institute, Dr. Michael Salla. Thank you for watching.

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Identified as an intuitive empath (IE), Corey Goode was recruited through one of the MILAB programs at the young age of six. Goode trained and served in the MILAB program from 1976-1986/87. Towards the end of his time as a MILAB he was assigned to an IE support role for a rotating Earth Delegate Seat (shared by secret earth government groups) in a “human-type” ET Super Federation Council.

MILAB is a term coined for the military abduction of a person that indoctrinates and trains them for any number of military black ops programs.