LE

Nail on the head there semper. I am no supporter of the BNP but If you want examples of real racists policies look no further than the established political parties who seek to engage in that which they seek to condemn in return for your vote. When the BNP practice it, it is called racism. When Parliament enact it, it is called 'the law'.

"When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorises it and a moral code that glorifies it."

Banning headdress in all it's forms, such as Prescott's initial deamonisation of 'hoodies' which was followed by a well orchastrated government campaign, the so-called 'public debate'about the 'veil' has more to do with the efficacy of surveillance incorporating facial mapping technology incorporated into CCTV than it does about any stated realty about cultural devide. It is based upon the premise usually held by social scientists and politicians who profess to engage in social engineering that the general public has an infintile mind incapable of engaging in any form of rational analysis of the real purpose behind what they profess in public in their manipulation of public opinion.

"When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorises it and a moral code that glorifies it."

Ritual slaughter is illegal in Britain but the Kosher and Halal meat industries are given exemptions from the law that applies to the rest of us.

The Government's Farm Animal Welfare Council has stated that ritual slaughter causes "severe suffering" and has recommended an immediate ban. (LINK)

The chairman of the Council is a distinguished academic vet and a senior official in the Royal Veterinary College. She describes as 'ridiculous', claims that ritual slaughter is humane. I've seen it done and I've seen what happens when it goes wrong (e.g. because the bloke wielding the knife is pissed) and I agree completely with this statement.

I don't support the BNP or animal rights nutters but I wouldn't let my kids eat ritually slaughtered meat in a school canteen. Ritual slaughter is unacceptable in a civilised society. It needs to go the same way as other 'traditional religious practices' like slavery, stoning, female genital mutilation and punishment amputations that are unacceptable and illegal in this country.

People with strong religious views about meat can eat a vegetarian diet. In my day religious jews and muslims in the armed forces did this as no Kosher or Halal food was provided aboard ship or in shore establishments. Is this still the case?

ArRSe is the Hotel California - You can log-out any time you like, but you can never leave!

Old-Salt

(Sound of soap box being dragged out and stood on)
WHY, OH WHY is there a difference in the law for Muslims and Jews. Are they above British law? Are they NOT British?
Claims are made that the animals die almost instantly when their throats are cut which is complete rubbish. Squeals and thrashing is explained away as muscle spasms and as we cannot communicate with animals we cannot realistically prove otherwise.
However, when a humans throat is cut, there is a good 5-10 seconds of the brain working in panic mode. The human knows what is going on and feels the pain and can be very vocal about it unless the voice box is severed, then all you have is whooshing sounds coming from the wind pipe. So there is NO WAY that is can be said that animals do not suffer when this is done to them, after all, at the end of the day we are all animals.( some more than others admittedly)

I am no racist, bigot or hate spreader but the laws of our land being changed (or exceptions) to accommodate a select people/ group as in this case makes my blood boil.

Unfortunately for the BNP they have the face of a fascist racist party, which is something they will never change, although people will start to sympathise with some of their beliefs as time goes on and society is changed to accommodate the minority. Reading through their requests and although you can detect the BNP undertone, they were not unreasonable, and would install a bit of pride in being British. After all, donât the Americans swear allegiance to feel patriotic (among other reasons of course), is that supposed to be racist? What is wrong with flying the Union Flag, they could put it at half mast to mark respect for fallen ones at the appropriate time for all to see.

I am ashamed to admit it, but I was overjoyed when Labour came into power as I believed they would be good for the county, how wrong I was? The only problem is that there is no other viable option for government at this present time, and with the chances of the Queen sacking the Government being just about nil, we are pretty stuffed.

I sometimes wonder what would happen if those still serving in the forces were allowed to make their opinions heard as to what was happening to the country that they are defending. We seem to be the only ones who really have âValues and Standardsâ that we strictly adhere to. Then again, we would be ignored by the government just as Gen Jackson was the other week.

Rant over.
My apologies for the long rant.

I've got a great idea. Lets buy a new communications system for the Army. lets save some money though, miss out the trials and testing phase to ensure that it works properly and role it straight out to the field Army, then worry about training people.

LE

I am sure that I read somewhere that all Compo Rations are Halal. Perhaps someone can confirm / deny this....

An interesting point with Hijabs. Most Service Stations will require the removal of crash helmets when paying. I as a biker do this, and would do it anyway as a matter of courtesy, because I consider it rude not to show my face to the person that I am dealing with, even though it is a major balls ache taking off gloves etc. The only time I keep my helmet on is when I pay at the pump. I would think it is only common courtesy to show your face. I would vote for a party that requires the removal of these items (Hijabs etc)

And I have every album Luther Vandross ever rreleased

"Is it a crime to hit a student across the back of the head with a snooker ball in a sock?"

MIA

Thanks, A_M. Very good points. The FAWC dosn't seem to be pushing their case as forcefully as it might, unfortunately, to tell from their 'news' pages. The worrying thing is that thousands of schoolkids might be eating ritually (ie cruelly) slaughtered meat as a result of their education authorities' forelock-tugging to the demands of 'community religious leaders' or somesuch.

LE

Iolis, I would doubt that my local concil offices have facial mapping technology within any CCTV system that they have. and surely facial mapping is done on a computer console after the piccy of my fizog has been taken regardless of the media used to take the picture.

Guru I must admit, whilst at the council offices paying my council tax I, would take my bone dome off, not at any service station though

LE

Iolis, I would doubt that my local concil offices have facial mapping technology within any CCTV system that they have. and surely facial mapping is done on a computer console after the piccy of my fizog has been taken regardless of the media used to take the picture.

Guru I must admit, whilst at the council offices paying my council tax I, would take my bone dome off, not at any service station though

I would agree with you only insofar as that social changes sometimes take decades, in extreme cases to become morally internalised and accepted as normal. An extreme example is homosexuality which following the Wolfenden Report, leading to the decriminalising of it under the 1961 Sexual Offences Act took place in a moral climate where homosexuality was considered deviant behaviour. Four decades later, it is no longer considered to be morally devient.

If we translate this into social engineering by demonisation, dressed up and disguised as 'debate', using semantic terms such as 'good manners to show your face, which may become eventually internalised and socially accepted, although your local council may not yet be in possesson of facial mapping, the technology is developing at a rapid rate and in a society of total surveillance and control that will become Britain a decade from now, the process of social engineeing will have served it's purpose.

An interesting book on this subject is required reading by students of Jurisprudence and Legal theory at all universities wrtten by the late Professor Herbert Hart, former professor of Jurisprudence entitled 'Concept of Law' who describes well this internalisation process when he describes law, morality and coercion as separate but related social phenomena and goes on to postulate that law or a legal system is a union of primary and secondary rules.

Regards and best wishes to you

"When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorises it and a moral code that glorifies it."

LE

I am sure that I read somewhere that all Compo Rations are Halal. Perhaps someone can confirm / deny this....

An interesting point with Hijabs. Most Service Stations will require the removal of crash helmets when paying. I as a biker do this, and would do it anyway as a matter of courtesy, because I consider it rude not to show my face to the person that I am dealing with, even though it is a major balls ache taking off gloves etc. The only time I keep my helmet on is when I pay at the pump. I would think it is only common courtesy to show your face. I would vote for a party that requires the removal of these items (Hijabs etc)

Old-Salt

There was a report in the press today that some schools had been serving halal food for a number of months now without informing the parents, many of whom have complained at teh cruel way in which the animals are killed.

LE

There was a report in the press today that some schools had been serving halal food for a number of months now without informing the parents, many of whom have complained at teh cruel way in which the animals are killed.

To which the disengenous yet predictable response from officialdom when justifying it's continuence will be:

"well your children seem to have enjoyed it without complaint for all of this time so there cannot be any objective basis for discontinuing what we have introduced on the basis of your own mere subjective prejudice. If we were to introduce both types of meat, meals would become much more expensive and the cost would have to be passed onto parents. The choice is yours"

It will be the strange usage of the word choice used in this parental context which will be used to disguise the reality of a fait accompli.

"When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorises it and a moral code that glorifies it."

LE

There was a report in the press today that some schools had been serving halal food for a number of months now without informing the parents, many of whom have complained at teh cruel way in which the animals are killed.

LE

There was a report in the press today that some schools had been serving halal food for a number of months now without informing the parents, many of whom have complained at teh cruel way in which the animals are killed.

The cruelty issue relates to the amount of time it takes for the animal to lose consciousness.

In the normal slaughtering process the animal is shot in the head and loses consciousness instantly. In ritual slaughter it can take up to two minutes. During this time the animal is terrified and in severe pain. This is why it's normally illegal to kill conscious animals by slitting their throats.

When the ritual killing process goes wrong, the meat is no longer Kosher or Halal, no matter how it was killed. Abatoirs are allowed to sell this as normal meat, thus making the rest of us subsidise the ritual slaughter industry whether we want to or not.

I think the BNP might be on to a winner campaigning against Halal and Kosher meat. I can't make my mind up about whether or not this is a good thing.

ArRSe is the Hotel California - You can log-out any time you like, but you can never leave!

LE

I wonder if the cruelty issue here is simply a red-herring used by the objectioners who feel that in these politically correct and volitile issues they are very afraid to state honestly and openly what they are truly afraid of and how they trully feel less, horror of horrors they will be inflicted with the mark of Cain by having a perjorative lable ending with an 'ist' or a 'phobic' aimed at them.

Words ending in this way are known to strike absolute terror into the hearts of the most bravest and intelligent of our subjects and are extremely effectively in stiflling their freedom of thought and expression.

Is is not the truth that the meat in question, having been prepared in the way it has been, peculiar to one minority religious group and that the terror one feels at the words which may be deployed against the majority of another religious group, should they object to being associated with it by having someone else's religion being literally 'forced down their throats' have effectively forced into terror-induced silence, the authorities who have taken the unilateral decision to introduce it without disclosure, discussion or consultation?

That's the truth isnt it?!

What of the objectors, equally terrified of the 'ist' or the 'phobic'? They choose instead to object on grounds that have nothing to do with their real reasons and thus generate a completely spurious debate on the grounds that the animal eaten has been stunned or had it's throat cut.

What are these words that reduce authorities and grown adults to trembling quivering wrecks?

They fear the words 'Racist' and 'Islamaphobic'!

It is how a minority can terrify a majority into silence by imprisoning them in their own fear!

"When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorises it and a moral code that glorifies it."