If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Tobi is a madara from the point of the anti-obito side

Im getting bored of countering against tobi-madara theorists. And im waiting for the next chapters so i can drain out some proof of tobi being obito in the konoha vs tobi fight. So while waiting, why not just act like im in the opposing side, it would be fun for me to experience the other sides state. So here i go, remember, i will still be on the tobito side, this post is just me switching sides, not permanently though. Tobito theorists dont get offended, im not really serious And the main reason im making this is to show the tobi-madara theorist that they have this whole debate easy while the tobito theorist have it harder, meaning they have to do more work while the tobi-madara theorists dont. See, im not in the tobi-madara side, but look how easy this was:

Tobi and obito have similarities, but those were revealed to be nothing more than coincidence or a red herring, due to the two following events in the manga:

Tobi said he's Madara and Pain, Konan, and Zetsu all acknowlede this. This deals a severe blow to the Tobito theory, since it most likely means that he's indeed Madara at least in mind/soul. His body is still up for grabs, but with this it becomes extremely unlikely that Madara isn't at least the one controlling the body.

Pain reveals the fact that one of his bodies has the power to revive dead bodies since the three bodies trapped in Ma's and Pa's genjutsu were somehow revived. This gives a mean to bring the ancient Madara back to life. Viable, since Pain and Madara already have been shown to know each other. In addition, if Pain is indeed Nagato or Rikudou, than that means that he would have been around prior to the Kyuubi being sealed as well.

This is currently the only revival method we know of that Pain/Madara would have access to; they have shown no other. Thus, until proven otherwise, this is the most likely method through which Madara would have been revived. Unfortunately for Tobito theorists, this doesn't require another body and would just revive the actual Madara. So, he wouldn't be Obito in any form.

Thus, as of now, the most likely scenario is that Tobi is indeed Madara in the flesh and blood.

As for everything else....

Why Madara still has the mask: He's facing Team Konoha right now... He's not stupid enough to give away his identity to them and reveal the fact that he's still alive to Konoha, after he's bothered to keep it secret for however long. And so he keeps it on; to conceal his identity from Team Konoha.

The battle: Madara has the potential for being the ultimate final villain. He caused practically everything in the manga, by cause and effect, by summoning the Kyuubi. He caused everything in the main protagonists life because of that and caused the death of his father. Not only that, but he's also the founder of the Uchiha clan, laying the basework for a connection with Sasuke, the idea of which was first introduced during Sasuke's brief convo during the Kyuubi.

Thus, Madara has connections to both main protagonists and can easily be the force that brings Naruto and Sasuke back together and reunites them in one final battle. To me, that really sparks my interst, at least more than some flashbacks and such that we would get from Kakashi fighting Tobito.

Kakashi Gaidens's Relevance to the Main Plot: Uh, no. It's not really that releveant. That's why it was a Gaiden, a side story, and not just a flashback or something in the actual story. If it was going to be mega-important to the actual plot, it would have been introduced there. But it wasn't, and was instead introduced in a Gaiden. So, it's chance for relevance with the rest of the plot is actually quite low

The bolts: Tobi wears them at his waist when he says he's Madara and they are no longer on his arms. This proves that they don't serve any puprouse of holding him together or any such thing, since they're so easily movable.

How Obito could have been revived segment: They still would have no way to know where Obito was... What would they be doing there? Why would they suddenly start moving boulders randomly? And they just happened to beat the Anbu team that surely would have been sent to destroy Obito's body and keep the secrets of his Sharingan hidden?

Not to mention, why would they bother even if they did find him? Far too much speculation required, which isn't needed if Tobi just is who he says he is, as I explained in my quoted post.

The mask: Oh god, there are any number of possibilities for this... Madara could have lost his eye in his fight with Shodai, has a super-Sharingan as his left eye which must be covered to avoid chakra wastage, just wears it because it's what he found, the mask working as a trap to draw people into his Sharingan because of the spirals, whihc wouldn't work with two eyeholes, ect.

Not to mention fighting with one eye doesn't seem to be a problem for ninja... Kakashi does it, Baki does it, Dosu does it, Danzou does it, ect; it really just doesn't seem to be a problem for them, so why not?

The personality: Tobi was just a facade that Madara created so that he could get close to Sasuke and get some first-hand knowledge of his progress without him recognizing him (thus, the complete make over). The personality was a part of this. Tobi's personality is not his real personality, which is clear in 364. The video even admits this, so I don't know why it used it as a point.

Zetsu was just playing along/was fooled by Madara's persona and honestly belived he was a boy.

Name: Since Tobi was just an alias that he made up anyway, yes... Unless Dan and Danzou are the same people and Danzou is also Hanzou... Or Tobi is really a Sarutobi... Really, the name thing clearly means nothing.
Now that was really fun and easy as well, it would be hard for a tobi-madara theorist to defend a tobito theorists theories wouldnt it. It was easy for me to defend the opposing side, so they shouldnt be hyped up. Anyways im still in the tobito side. I wish i had more evidence though, so im looking forward to the upcoming chapters to help me.
I know with this im countering my theory on tobi=madara + obito but what can i say, i like being on the team that is getting made fun of. Since the tobi obito side gets laughed at, i really dedicate myself to defending it.

Last edited by Gameboy; 01-14-2008 at 01:03 AM.

Originally posted by Howdy
Do you idiots honestly think that Kishimoto will waste our time showing us a crippled Nagato lying in a hospital bed that Naruto can defeat just by switching off his life support machine?

It's very good to seem someone who is a true debater, someone who can take either side and not take the topic personally.

That said, I have to go for the tobi=madara. I am a true scientist at heart and therefore dictated by Occom's Razor, the simplest explanation is the most likely. I think that the fact that the tobito theory requires a lot of different events just makes it too complicated to be relevent. And yes we do have an easier job, but that's because more evidence puts towards it.

wow this was a really long post but it was nice to read. true pein has been shown to be able to revive dead bodies but that has gotta be the ability of the rinnegan. well now you'll ask what am i trying to state, well it's simple. if obito was revived by pein then that means that he must have the rinnegan. since the three pein's that were killed and brought back to life all had the rinnegan then if obito was brought back to life by pein then he must also have the rinnegan.

but i don't see tobi having the rinnegan as a possiblity considering he knows the rinnegan's weakness. i mean why the hell would you use something that could bring to your downfall if your opponent could find it's weakness. like you said tobi called himself madara and pein also called him madara. personally i think that proves at least 95% that tobi=madara but i do believe there's more to the situation than meets the eye that's why i stick with my tobi=tobi theory. but once again nice post it was truly entertaining to read.