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I don't know anything about this book series, but for some reason lately all you gotta do is put some space ships in your show and I'm at least gonna watch a few episodes. This looks pretty neat, is there anything resembling a release date other than sometime in the next 350 days?

I thought it looked more b5, including Jane looking like young Garibaldi. I know nothing of the books but I'll give it a watch. Especially if its paired up with Defiance in the summer like it should be.

Holden's POV is totally Firefly. Miller's is what changes it up. Hell, Holden

does exactly what Mal does is the movie when he gets big info--just dumps it to the masses.

Holden's POV is not Firefly at all. If the spoiler there is your biggest point of similarity, you are missing most of what makes Firefly Firefly.

It's good, yes. But it's not Firefly. Different style, different feel, very different setup, etc, etc.

Uh, no, that isn't my only point. But if you want a list.

Country-ish, former military Spaceship Captain with a super loyal crew that is basically family except for the outsider, including a rough and brash thug, and a hot, smart female XO.

A ragtag crew who is always on the back foot against both supposed criminals and a massive military empire (the UN), while behind it all is a shadowy organization.

A crew that works with a group of rebel underdogs to uncover a sinister secret plot that is responsible for horrific shit.

A crew that is pretty much fucked continuously for trying to do the right thing, over and over.

I'm not saying it's a copy of Firefly, but it's a decent fucking comparison to what Holden's POV feels similar to.

Except it's got none of the Western feel at all

Holden's ex-military experience is not a main driving part of his personality, unlike Mal. The ragtag crew is not at all like Firefly's in feel or action. And Mal's crew is not really fighting an evil empire for the most part, nor are they continually fucked.

The comparisons are basically that it's a crew on a small ship.

The similarities are superficial and don't really hold up to scrutiny. They are on the level of the "GOT in space!" compairson.

I'm not going to argue it, because you're just wrong. I can say for a fact that it can feel like Firefly to some people, because it sure as hell does to me, obviously. Trying to say it can't is saying that when I read it, I didn't immediately feel similarities between Holden & Crew to Mal & Crew.. except that I did. So, it may not have felt like Firefly to you, but its a fair comparison due to the simple fact that it is going to ring true for some people. If you put Mal & Crew in the exact same position, it would play out almost identically. That to me makes it a reasonable comparison.

Please tell me it's not super much like Firefly. Because I want to like this.

And I don't like Firefly.

That is not going to be a popular opinion around here.

Because Firefly is pretty great.

But the impression I've gotten is that this seems like its own thing. Its similarity to Firefly is that there is at least one character who is a blue collar space person. Its similarity to Game of Thrones is that there are multiple viewpoint characters and may also have politics.

I'm not going to argue it, because you're just wrong. I can say for a fact that it can feel like Firefly to some people, because it sure as hell does to me, obviously. Trying to say it can't is saying that when I read it, I didn't immediately feel similarities between Holden & Crew to Mal & Crew.. except that I did. So, it may not have felt like Firefly to you, but its a fair comparison due to the simple fact that it is going to ring true for some people. If you put Mal & Crew in the exact same position, it would play out almost identically. That to me makes it a reasonable comparison.

I really wouldn't bet on that at all. Holden is basically defined by his naive idealism and his crew's loyalty to him based on that and being rather upfront about it. He's also explicitly a political figure. Mal is bitter and angry and also obscure and unknown and only kind of an idealist and of a completely different kind. He's more of a Jeffersonian democracy type and explicitly so since, of course, Firefly is at heart a western (or at least one of it's parents is) and that's a core part of the idea of western expansion that the western is built on. And his crew is built around a slowly growing community of necessity. (it's a wagontrain to the stars)

To cover the above question from CaptainNemo at the same time, what the comparison basically comes down to is it does eventually involve a small crew running an independent operation amidst the competing interests of larger groups. (and that second bit is a bit questionable of a comparison given how Firefly was playing out for the parts we saw) But it's very much more political/sci-fi drama without a real drop of western in it's veins.

Please tell me it's not super much like Firefly. Because I want to like this.

And I don't like Firefly.

It's not much like firefly or game of thrones

Parts of it feel like Firefly because:

Beyond the stated reasons, Holden and his crew talk in Whedon-speak - that rapid fire dialogue with constant quipping you know and love (or loathe in a few cases). It actually threw me out of the story the first time I read it because I didn't get what the author was trying so they just sounded like crazy people. When I realized what he was trying to pull off, it clicked.

The second POV - the detective - monologues like Phillip Marlowe. His sections do not feel Whedon-esque, nor do those of the military figures or other supporting characters. The ship's crew, though, those guys are straight out of Whedon central casting.

I'm not going to argue it, because you're just wrong. I can say for a fact that it can feel like Firefly to some people, because it sure as hell does to me, obviously. Trying to say it can't is saying that when I read it, I didn't immediately feel similarities between Holden & Crew to Mal & Crew.. except that I did. So, it may not have felt like Firefly to you, but its a fair comparison due to the simple fact that it is going to ring true for some people. If you put Mal & Crew in the exact same position, it would play out almost identically. That to me makes it a reasonable comparison.

I really wouldn't bet on that at all. Holden is basically defined by his naive idealism and his crew's loyalty to him based on that and being rather upfront about it. He's also explicitly a political figure. Mal is bitter and angry and also obscure and unknown and only kind of an idealist and of a completely different kind. He's more of a Jeffersonian democracy type and explicitly so since, of course, Firefly is at heart a western (or at least one of it's parents is) and that's a core part of the idea of western expansion that the western is built on. And his crew is built around a slowly growing community of necessity. (it's a wagontrain to the stars)

To cover the above question from CaptainNemo at the same time, what the comparison basically comes down to is it does eventually involve a small crew running an independent operation amidst the competing interests of larger groups. (and that second bit is a bit questionable of a comparison given how Firefly was playing out for the parts we saw) But it's very much more political/sci-fi drama without a real drop of western in it's veins.

I would have to disagree a little. Holden is also a bit anti-authoritarian much like Mal and he can be ruthless in the pursuit of what he believes in, also like Mal.

But Amos ain't Jane. Naomi ain't Zoe, and Alex ain't Wash.

There are some similarities because they pulling from the same archetypes. Holden is the good independent captain, just like Mal. Naomi is the cool, calm XO, much like Zoe. Alex is a glib pilot a bit like Wash. And Amos can be a ruthless thug like Jane.

But that's just the archetypes, they are quite clearly not expys.

It is also a bit westerny because it is a bit frontier-esque. It does not have the tone of say "Rio Bravo" like Firefly. But it does have the tone of "How The West Was Won"

But there are significant differences between Mal and Holden. Mal has significant intimacy issues. Holden does not. Mal is a damn good shot. Holden can hit his mark, but he's no Mal.

And they would make different decisions at different points.

Take for instance

When Miller shoots Dresden. Holden is appalled and shocked and kicks Miller off the ship. Mal would have shot that son-of-bitch before Miller could have cleared leather. And he would only have needed one bullet too.

I started reading this last night. Chapter one feels like the first scene of Serenity after the credits as we go through Holden's ship and meet almost the entire crew. It feels less elegant in prose than it did in the movie, and a bit clunky. Still, early days.

Not sure about the ending to the prologue. Obviously a hint of scary weirdness to come, but it just made me Spockface.

I started reading this last night. Chapter one feels like the first scene of Serenity after the credits as we go through Holden's ship and meet almost the entire crew. It feels less elegant in prose than it did in the movie, and a bit clunky. Still, early days.

Not sure about the ending to the prologue. Obviously a hint of scary weirdness to come, but it just made me Spockface.

I just started it, too, by coincidence. Stepfather gave it to me for X-mas.

I can see the similarities in the Holden storyline, but they specifically mention that there hasn't been a cowboy in over a hundred years, and only one character has an inexplicable Texas drawl (and they actually explain specifically that it is inexplicable).

About two thirds through the first book. It's pretty good, though I think perhaps every third NPC could have a job other than 'prostitute'. Christ, they're even using the word 'prostitute' in similes.

One thing I've noticed is the lack of a sense of physical scale. I dunno if it's intentional, keeping the focus on the decently drawn characters, but these huge, impressive asteroid habitats and spaceships seem to be a series of corridors and occasional small rooms with perhaps a bar every now and then. With added prostitutes.

About two thirds through the first book. It's pretty good, though I think perhaps every third NPC could have a job other than 'prostitute'. Christ, they're even using the word 'prostitute' in similes.

One thing I've noticed is the lack of a sense of physical scale. I dunno if it's intentional, keeping the focus on the decently drawn characters, but these huge, impressive asteroid habitats and spaceships seem to be a series of corridors and occasional small rooms with perhaps a bar every now and then. With added prostitutes.

I have no idea what you are on about. I can think of basically no prostitutes in the book other then one Miller is interviewing at the start. I guess a later part involves a sort of whorehouse? Just no clue here.

As for the scale, it's because that's what all these habitats are. The series sticks to a fairly realistic take on space travel and such, so everything is very compact and as little space taken up as possible. Small rooms, tight corridors, etc. They talk about it frequently.

Yes, and I get that it's what these habitats are on the inside. They run into huge warships, approach massive asteroids and space stations and shipyards, but somehow the scale of these objects or their distance from each other in the solar system never really comes across.

As for the prostitutes thing, it's just a tic I noticed. When they reach Thoth it's described as spinning slowly 'like a cheap prostitute showing off her wares' or something similar. The crew pitch up in a bar, look around and see someone who's 'probably a prostitute at the end of her career' or similar several times.

Am reminded of Niven's The Integral Trees, where most of the characters are tall and willowy, with the exception of a single "dwarf", a genetic throwback, who's the only one the ancient spacesuit fits.

I just read the book after learing about it from this thread. Overall I liked the beginning and the ending, the

Call of Duty: Zombies

part in the middle was a bit of a let down but things got interesting again by the end. Got a huge Firefly vibe off of Holden & crew, I generally enjoyed the detective parts with Miller more than the Firefly parts with Holden. I think I will read the second book at some point.

I thought Cibola Burn was the weakest of the books so far, but I'm still super excited for this.

My only immediate, knee jerk concern is that, with a SyFy budget (even one they consider big), you need great characters really well written and executed, which is probably the weakest tool in the Expanse books' repetoire.

The other is I just don't get how they cast Jane as Miller. I just didn't read that character anywhere close to what that guy exudes. Miller (for me) feels more like William Forsythe in a trenchcoat smoking a cigarette than a skinny Zen Punisher.