Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

Ah, yes, Osiris II, thank you for pointing that out. However, I do wonder--was Amenhotep III still alive when Tut was born? I mean, in my own personal opinion, I would think that Amenhotep would be rather too old to have more children, regardless of how many wives he had. I think it plausible that Akhenaten was indeed Tutankhamun's father, and even if Kiya wasn't the mother--and I've heard she was a likely candidate--at least Akhenaten might have been well into his twenties when Tut was born.

To some, age would not matter in this issue, but it is relevent despite that. I truely believe that the so-called "Long co-regency" between Akhenaten and his father must have been cut short long before Tut was even born. I estimated that Akhenaten was in his late teens--maybe 19 or so--when he was crowned, and 26-27 when Tut was born. In addition, Amenhotep III was, sadly, a sickly man with absessed teeth and heavy weight. (If anyone can give me the EXACT cause of death, that'd be greatly appreciated!! ^_^).

So, to sum up my long, ranting paragraph, as much as I agree that no king was mentioned, I can assume that it was Akhenaten, not just because of the death of Amenhotep III long before, but because it WAS found in the former capital of Akhetaten, and found in the North palace--I believe, correct me if I'm wrong--and even if Amenhotep III was amazingly alive at the time, he would've been at Thebes with Tiye, probably dieing of a horrid disease from the absess in his teeth or from old age. And please, everyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and I'd like to thank Osiris II again for pointing that there was no name on the stele.

This is just my belief and my theory, and I hope it can be looked at with deep thought, reason, and no flaming. *Takes a bow* Behold!! My long ranting paragraph!!

Amenhotep was between 2 and 12 years old when he took the throne, marrying Tiye (probably about his 16th year) and starting to have children, both with Tiye and his other wives and concubines, which included two of his own daughters later in his life.
I believe the co-regency lasted until the twelth year of his son's reign, who had moved with his family to Aketaten and that Tut was one of Amenhotep's III off-spring from a lesser wife or concubine. Tut seems to have grown up in the North Palace.
It is a well-known fact that men are able to produce children into their 70's, so the ability to have a child was more than possible.
Amenhotep's image, from a stele found at Akhetaten, shows an old, quite heavy, man. We know from his mummy he had severly abcessed teeth. In fact, I believe it was the poison from his teeth that finally killed him, I'm not sure of the cause of his death.
Later in his life, he seemed quite content to leave the ruling of the kingdom to Tiye and her son, A. She seems to have been a very controlling woman. She lived for several more years after her husband, and seems to have had an active role in politics.
The Armarna Age is, indeed, a battleground for mystery! No wonder it's been called the Amarna Tar Pits! About any theory one chooses can be applied to history of that time. Up to this point, very little is actually known, but with the high concentration of excavation in that area and others, we are gaining more knowledge every day.

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

Well said, Osiris II, and I tip my hat off to you for providing your own plausible theory. And it pains me to say it, but we really DO have alot to learn about the Amarna period, and it really IS no wonder that it was called "The Amarna tar pits!!" But I totally agree with you on one note: we need to research and excavate more on the area, and hopefully sooner or later, a piece of evidence will come up, and it will shed light on the whole mystery, and the debates turned quarrels would finally cease.

Until then, we only have bits and pieces of a large, complex puzzle, and that's what's so intruiging about Akhenaten's story--it came to a tragic, short end, and Tut--and I still believe that's his son, not to offend--was also predestined by the same fate, his reign sadly cut short by illness, as we are all now learning. But for Akhenaten's tale, it's still shrouded in mystery.

And I cannot imagine a man in his 70's to have children. But, I've heard stranger things!! ^_^; And I like hearing your version of the endless "Amarna tale", which, I pray, can soon be solved in our lifetime. I'm glad people can listen to my theories without getting angry or offended by it, and I mean not to offend anyone here!! ^_^ Because of the respectable people here who can provide thier own opinons, I also tip my hat off to you!

Seriously, though--don't feel you are in any way insulting or hurtful to anyone here. Everyone enjoys a good debate, and yours are extremely interesting and informative. A good debate is based on several things. First--a subject of great interest. Second--a person completely in favor of one point of view. Third--a person who sees the subject differently. These things add up to a most enjoyable airing of opinion.
I agree completely--morework has to be done in the Amarna field--not only in excavation work, but, hopefully, we will find an entact tomb there or in the Valley of the Kings that contains some sort of information that will shed illuminating light on the subject. The track record, up to this time, has answered a lot of questions for us, but there are a lot that need to be answered.
Who knows, maybe someday somewhere something--a tomb, an inscription, a papyrus--will be discovered that "Tells All"!

I have waited for a long time to se some answer to my questions.
I have waited for the usual suspect to give me some feedback
on the questions I raised. But so far there has been none of them.

So I thought I might tell you a story abut a Man and his family.
The man was a strong believer of Egypt. Egypt was ruled by the
Hyksos and has been for a longtime. But the man has not forgot his
love for Egypt. He believed that with is friends he could change the balance
and bring Egypt back to its glory. But the people around him has gain great wealth by supporting the Hyksos Pharaoh and they where happy
as long as they hade their wealth.

When the man one day raised and went out on his quest to free Egypt and bring Egypt back to its glories past those man betrayed him for the
cause of money and he was killed. But his two sons assembled the people
and finally chased the Hyksos out of Egypt. They founded the greatest
of all Dynasties and the New Kingdom. They where the true heroes of Egypt. But they hade to pay a high price for this.

When we today sits here and call us with fine nicknames on this board and others.
We should think abut the small people who raised against the power
of the wealth, who gave their lives for their beloved Egypt.
Because that's what its all abut today. Big powerful countries who
holds Egyptian key relics in their countries when they should be in
Egypt. By supporting this you all see Seqenenra, Khamose, Ahmose and the
whole house of Tao at the same way as Hyksos once did.

If the little man from south hade not raised against the power of the north
there would not be any Nicknames to use for you, No Arman period to
talk abut no King Tut to wonder how he died. Its those key moment in
history that have so big impacts on the future. But this event was for
the course to assembled Egypt's glory. And once again Egypt is divided
its treasure is scattered around the world. And can you call your self a true
lover of Egypt and at the same time argue against the work to assembled
its treasure, and to bring them back home to where they belong.
This is the whole issue of ancient Egypt and the religion, the great Pharaohs. They build their Tombs so all things should stay
and now they are all over the world.

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

To reply to both:

Osiris II, my hat is off to you once again!! You're right, and I wish it really was THAT easy just to find a stele or papryus that tells us the entire Amarna tale. I actually wish that I could snap my fingers and all the answers would be in my hands!! lol.

To Claude II, first off, let me just say I LOVE your avatar!! It's Nefertiti, right? It's awesome. And for the story you shared with us, I tip my hat off to you as well, because you are absolutely right. If it weren't for the ancient peoples of Egypt who gave thier lives just so a wonderful and glorious empire could be studied and wondered about for future generations. It goes to every country, like the U.S, or Europe, who've strived to protect themselves for the future of the world. Thank you Claude II, for telling that story, and I still LOVE your Nefertiti (?) avatar!!

Thank you Claude II, for telling that story, and I still LOVE your Nefertiti (?) avatar!!

I made the Avatar my self Yes its Nefertiti but its a hasty work though I forgot to change
the texture to Egyptian skin and make up

Sometimes its easy to forget those key moment in time that change
the whole history! I agree with most people that dont generally like
Dr. Hawass but he is right when he try to assemble the ancient Egyptian
treasures and bringing them home to Egypt. This was the will of the Pharaohs
And all of us who are calling us Lovers of this civilization should join
this quest to respecting the old Pharaohs wishes.

That is why I am so dedicated to this quest and it makes me so sad when
fine people like the one at this board pays so little respect for those great
ancient Kings and Queens But I take the silence as a sign that maybe a few have taken my point
and begins to understand that this is so much bigger then the person
Dr. Hawass is. This is a quest for the legacy of the great Pharaohs and the great empire of ancient Egypt.

Pay respects to the wishes of the Pharaohs? Dont be so damned hypocritical! Perhaps you'd also like all of the ancient relics reburied in the tombs without conservation, the mummies put back into the environments that will ultimately destroy them and all of Egypts tourist sites closed to visitors. That would be the true will of the Pharaohs, so think before you presume that you are doing what the Kings of Egypt would have wanted. To see their legacy now would chill those Kings and you are just as guilty of breaking their hopes as I am.

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

I hope that another battle won't break out... I mean, in this forum, many people go off-topic so much, that I don't even KNOW what's being discussed anymore. First, it was arguing with Hawass. Then it was the Rosetta stone. Then arguing with everyone here and offending people. Then Tut's family tree. Then Tut and Akhenaten. Then this. I'd be less surprised if we all debated over the color of Tut's eyes next. I just hate it when debates go horribly wrong...

I was reading through this thread and was surprised about how vitriolic some folks were getting over certain issues, particularly the Rosetta Stone and Zahi Hawass. The argument over the Rosetta Stone is really quite moot--the British Museum will never return it, right or wrong--but I'd like to add a couple of thoughts about Hawass.

In my position as a docent at the Field Museum I've met numerous people who have had personal dealings with Hawass and know him professionally. An Egyptologist related to me that Hawass's brash character and occasional arrogant and overbearing demeanor have made him unpopular among his colleagues, including those in his own country. He is not the quite the cheery, affable fellow we see all the time on the Discovery Channel.

I've never met Hawass so I shall reserve judgement. However, with the Tut exhibit coming to our institution next year (May 2006), I will more than likely have the opportunity to meet him. And you know what? I really hope I do get to meet him.

Say what you will about Zahi Hawass, he is a terrific spokeman for his country and has done much good for the antiquities and heritage of modern Egypt.

There, enough said by me for now.

Now, as for you two, Si-amun and tutness, you're both wrong about the color of Tut's eyes. My personal psychic told me he was an albino, so his eyes were white! So there!

Joined:Mon May 09, 2005 9:22 amPosts:574Location: The palace of Tutness!

Kmt, I'm glad you got here on two accounts:

First, for returning to the long-forgotten topic!

Secondly, for joining in the random yet fun-filled debate between Si-Amun and myself!! .....Tut? Albino?! Shocking!!

I can't believe Dr. Hawass isn't really an enthusiastic Egyptologist, after all. Then he's only playing the "Good doctor" to the public? Seems odd to me...if I were an Egyptologist--and I will soon be one, in Akhetaten, no doubt!!--I would only be focused on finding new and exciting evidence, and proving and providing theories, then to waste my time by "keeping up appearences". Hawass is an intelligent man, no doubt, and VERY well at what he does. He just...does it for the wrong reasons? I hope I'm wording this correctly, and as carefully as I can, and I mean not to offend anyone here who supports Hawass.

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