Okay, now that the issue is settled, and Sony has finally delivered what many have clamored for, it's time for a thread that no longer anticipates, but trumpets the arrival of the units. Since the earlier thread was as much about wondering whether the units would arrive, and observers need to go to recent posts to discover the answer, the time for this thread has come.

So I'll start this thread with a little background, i.e, my own reasons for preferring changers.

I started in home theater just before DVDs were initally released, and I still have (though not in my system) a LD player, which was the standard back then. I quickly determined that I wanted as nice a high-end system as I could afford, and I've pretty much stuck to that over the years, though now I'll mix in a bit of "value" as well.

I had Proceed Electronics, Krell Amps, Aerial Acoustic Speakers, and my first "good" projector was an NEC-XG1352LC, one of the best 8" CRTs, with a Faroudja NRS video processor. My determination was to get a similar high end DVD front, and that led me to . . . Sony, Pioneer Elite, Meridian, Theta, Proceed . . . until I learned a key lesson.

The real "difference" in terms of video quality (audio was almost always nearly equal) among DVD transports lay in the video transfer on the disc. Got a $4000 player? Bad discs looked bad on it, as they did on the $300 players. Got a great video transfer, like The Fifth Element? It will look great on a budget player, and on the $6000 Proceed player. Until . . .

Lots of discs. I first solved that problem with the first Sony DVD Mega Changer, a 200 disc model. I next gravitated to the Pioneer DV-F727, which was a 300 disc version, and greatly improved. I had both of the later released Sony changers, the 860 and 870 and, after a brief period of going back to a single disc changer, I realized that once you've had the luxury of a changer, you can't go back.

I should interrupt at this point to say that I was always concerned that I was squeezing the "best" out of my electronics, speakers, and video, and there was something too "mainstream" about my changers that bugged me. I did, after all, subscribe to Stereophile.

I began a series of tests, first on my CD changers vs. the reference CD players I had on hand--Sony ES, Proceed, Theta, Pioneer Elite--the same bunch as from the DVD single disc players.

What I learned is that, when using the analog outputs of CD players, the single disc was sometimes a shade better. But then when using the digital outputs of the same CD players, and feeding them into the same digital processor (first a Proceed, then a Krell, then a Lexicon) there was no difference. I could enjoy my CD collection knowing that I wasn't sacrificing an ounce of quality (to my ears), and I could enjoy the best of both worlds.

I was also satisfied, after many A/B comparisons between changer quality and single disc players, that the same was true from a video standpoint. While I don't dispute differences between players, what I have learned is this: In the entire process of judging video quality, there are two dominating factors. Those factors are: (1) The source itself (the quality of the disc or other transmission such as HDTV or SDTV); and (2) The display device--your TV or projector. I also learned that when you did those things right, you could have your cake and eat it too--you could have a high end system, and you could have the convenience of changers.

The most significant development in Changers came in the early 2000s, when Kenwood introduced its Sovereign series. This was the first 400 disc changer, and it introduced a lot of aficionados to the concept of the front-end server, in this case called Entre. While Entre was really a rebadged Escient, it remains one of the most versatile products that we've seen on the changer front. While I still have some Kenwood changers and at least one Entre unit in service, it never really caught on for a number of reasons. But, quietly, Sony continued its preeminence in this market with the release of the best DVD changer of all time, the Sony DVP-CX777ES. It is still the standard for any DVD changer, and, when combined with an Escient Fireball controller, provides one of the best combinations of elegance and quality that exist in the entire A/V market, not just DVD players.

So now, with still some unanswered questions as to why we've had to wait so long, Sony has finally sated us with the BDP-CX7000ES, capturing the early adopters (like me), but, after soaking us for that burst of profit, will release the BDP-CX960 in a few months.

I've already posted some initial observations on the earlier thread, but I'll repeat here. The BDP-CX7000ES is stellar on audio and video, although no more so than the Sony BDP-2000ES single disc player I had ealier. The build quality on the unit is the best I've seen among any changer, and I'm happy to say that Sony has delivered a winner, especially with the GUI that is onboard. While I've opted for the Escient Vision VS-100 (to control up to four changers but still not upgraded or delivered), I could have easily lived with the onboard version.

So there you go. Let's now devote discussion on performance, needed upgrades, and general changer talk since the beast has finally arrived.

Thanks,

Nick

Okay, here are links to the manuals for each changer. This is my idea and only my idea to post these. Never mind the context of the links :

Quote:

Originally Posted by B&W700guy

If this an offical thread then the OP should add some pics to the cover, specs and links.

Assuming that Escient keeps its promise--one never knows in consumer electronics--the BDP-CX7000ES will be capable of being controlled by one of Escient's discontinued Vision Products. For the FAQ on controlling the ES version, note:

Quote:

Sony Blu-ray Changer Control

Does Vision Support the new Sony 400 disc Blu-ray Changer?

Vision will support the new Sony BDP-CX7000ES 400 disc changer with a software update in Q4 2009.

How does the Sony Blu-ray Changer connect to Vision?

Each changer will require an HDMI and an RS-232 (via USB-Serial adapter) connection to Vision. If you are using a single changer then this requires a Keyspan USA-19HS single-port USB-Serial adapter. If you are using more than one changer (up to 4) or require additional serial ports (i.e. external control) then this requires a Keyspan USA-49WG 4-port USB-Serial adapter:
Keyspan USA-19HS single-port USB-Serial adapter
Keyspan USA-49WG 4-port USB-Serial adapter

Today (June 18, 2010), Escient updated the software to its Vision Series, including external control of the BDP-CX7000ES. The notes with release state:

Quote:

Vision Maintenance Release 1.2
June 18, 2010
Summary
The Vision maintenance release 1.2 update is recommended for all Vision-VS and Vision-VC
Media Servers currently running 1.0.2.0 and later. It includes several new features and a
number of bug fixes that improve the stability, compatibility, and performance of your Vision
system. A software update is also available for the Vision-VX servers but this is a minor bug
fix update so it is still a v1.0 update.
Important: Read before updating
• It is required that you have your Vision properly configured and connected to the Internet
prior to installing any updates.
• Stop playback and/or import of all media before starting the installation.
• The installation process should not be interrupted even if the progress bar remains
unchanged for several minutes. If a power outage or other interruption occurs during
installation, contact Escient Tech Support to obtain an update CD.
Installing the update
To update to the Vision maintenance release 1.2, wait for the automatic update period (one
per week) or manually trigger the update by selecting Check for Updates from the
Setup/Utilities/Software Update menu on your Vision.
The software update process may take several minutes to download and run depending on
the speed of your Internet connection and the current load on the Escient update servers.
When the update is complete, the Vision will reboot itself and display the main menu. You
can verify the current software version by viewing the System Information screen from the
Setup/Utilities/System Information menu on your Vision.
New Features in MR 1.2
• Sony BDP-CX7000ES Blu-Ray Changer support (BD and DVD discs only)
• Playback Behavior Options and the ability to Replace the Music Queue
• DVD On-Screen display
• Gracenote VideoID® Service
• Multi-language support (English, Spanish, French, German, Italian, and Dutch)
• DVD Playback Frequency recognition for NTSC and PAL formats DVDs
• Music Compilation Tag support
• Cover art support for FLAC audio files
Improvements in MR 1.2
General
• Improved overall system stability
• Improved system memory usage
• Faster startup
• More reliable media streaming for movies and music
• Faster RAID re-syncing
Video
• Improved DVD playback
• Improved sharpness and black levels
• Improved de-interlacing of 30fps video
• Elimination of video stuttering
• Improved HDMI connectivity
• “Play Movie” feature removed for improved compatibility
Audio
• Faster audio playback
• Rhapsody playback reliability is improved
Additional Information
Additional information about this software update may be found by visiting the Escient
Support web site at http://www.escient.com/support or by calling our Tech Support team
directly at 1-800-ESCIENT.

This is hopefully a major milestone for the BD changer support. I have a Vision VS-1 in waiting for this very release, and can report back when it gets up and running.

July 21, 2010

I have made some progress with the Escient. Having burned the software update to a disc (I could not, for whatever reason, download it from the Escient server) . . . but I am still in need of help.

Escient support is "there," but they are not terribly helpful. The CSRs that are answering the phone told me: (1) I didn't need null modem cables to connect the changer to the Escient (you do); (2) that there was an RS-232 port on the back of the Escient (there isn't--there are two USB ports); and (3) didn't know how to load the drivers for the necessary USB to Serial Bridge that is recommended on the newly revised Escient FAQs. So, for your edification:

Quote:

Will it support Sony’s new BDP-CX7000ES 400-disc Blu-ray changer?

Yes, with the release of the Vision v1.2 software update, Vision now supports the new Sony BDP-CX7000ES 400 disc changer. Changer based discs will only be available in the local zone, on the Vision VS or VC that has the changers physically connected and will only be output/switched via Vision’s HDMI output. Blu-ray content will not be available over the network to a remote client (i.e. VC-1).
Each changer will require an HDMI and an RS-232 (via USB-Serial adapter) connection to Vision. If you are using a single changer then this requires a Keyspan USA-19HS single-port USB-Serial adapter. If you are using more than one changer (up to 4) or require additional serial ports (i.e. external control) then this requires a Keyspan USA-49WG 4-port USB-Serial adapter:
Keyspan USA-19HS single-port USB-Serial adapter
Keyspan USA-49WG 4-port USB-Serial adapter

* * * *

How do you connect an external control system that uses serial RS-232?

Serial external control requires an RS-232 to USB adapter. You need to purchase a Tripp·Lite USB-Serial Adapter model USA-19HS. Drivers for the Tripp·Lite USB Serial Adapter are already installed. For more information on the Tripp·Lite USB-Serial Adapter, please visit their site: USA-19HS. Depending on your control system, you may need to insert a null modem adapter (or cable) between your control system and the USB-Serial Adapter. It is always preferable to use TCP/IP for eternal control if your control system supports it. [Editor's Note: While this language on its face refers to an external control system of the Escient, such as a Crestron, it answers the question of how to download the drivers (already installed in the Escient); and gives the clue of the null modem cable (or adapter) which finally got the Escient Vision to recognize my two BD changers]

Once I got the Vision to recognize my changers, it started searching for discs, much in the same way that the Fireball did for DVDs. However, after a few abortive attempts, it loaded and catalogued about 50 discs, but that is about 10% of what I have loaded. For some reason, it stops looking them up. When I left home this AM, I had it set up to discover everything in both changers, but we'll see when I get home from work how much of a dent I've made.

Even among those it did find, it is proving finicky with regard to discs it doesn't like--discs it claims has a scratch, smudge, or something else preventing lookup, including those discs that the Sony could find on its own.

Having said that, I have been able to play with the user interface (to the extent of the 50 or so discs that did get recognized, and it is far superior to what's onboard the Sony. You can scroll by page, and the information and the cover art is large compared to the Sony. If I can get past these initial issues (and, alas, Escient's support is learning as we learn), it will be successful. But these are threshold issues that have to be resolved.

More as I keep fiddling around. When I get a chance, I'll post some screen shots of User Interface, and other assorted nuts.

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

I've had two Sony 5-disc changers in the past, one SD, the other HD-upconvert, and the BDP-CX7000ES is the first multi-hundred changer I've ever considered. I've looked at the information on the Sony Style page and looked through the user manual (from the support page), but can't find one thing I'm curious about:

I have less than 50 Blu-ray discs but well over 300 SD discs that I would want to store in this player, and several of those older SD discs had the movie on one side and bonus features on the other. Can the BDP-7000ES read two sides of a disc?

I have to say I hate all the changer machine including this Mega-changer BDs from Sony,last time dvd changer gave me headache cause malfunction issue so I will stick with standalone BD player,just my opinion.

@butsu: It's human to keep excellent track of negative experiences, and not so of the good ones.
To put it in ancient terms (which shows the use of this): This blue berry made me sick: I'd better stay away from all blue berries.
See the problem? In the technology setting things advance very fast and never stay the same, unlike nature which advances very slowly.
And because nature advances slowly, so does the determination center in your brain whether you want something or not. It simply doesn't take the new facts into effect yet.

Try looking at it objectively and you'll see this device has many many fixes (both software and hardware) compared to the earlier versions. Your previous experience with another changer shouldn't affect you or others this much.

I among others am really on hot coles to speak in Dutch terms; I can barely wait for the cheaper version

I notice it has an RS232 port but Sony usually will not give out this info claiming it is only for custom installers. Anyone have the protocols?

Thanks

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

barrygordon asked why a few of us were wanting service manuals. The main reason that I wanted one was to see if the mechanism had been modified at all to prevent the changer damaging discs. I have had a bad experience with the DVP-CX777ES recently (see here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post16600385).

Having compared the service manuals for the 777ES and 7000ES there doesn't seem to be much difference in the disc loading mechanisms, in fact a lot of the parts are the same, so this is quite disappointing considering the cost of the 7000.

Someone commented that the 7000ES loses keyed-in data if the power is disconnected. I wonder if you plug in a USB memory stick at the back of the 7000ES, whether keyed-in data would be stored in that?

I read a review here http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sony...er-Review.html saying that the 5000ES actually converts 1080p/24 content to 1080i/60 for processing then back to 24p for output. I'm wondering if the 7000ES does the same thing. The Mission Impossible Three BD might be a good disc to test this with. At the start of one of the chapters, someone walks down a flight of steps, and you can get shimmering on the steps if the image has gone through an interlaced stage.

The Escient Vision units use the same DVD database as Sony (Gracenote, which is owned by Sony apparently). This works quite well for US discs but not for European discs. However, you can add text and cover art quite easily on the Vision, unlike with the Sony interface.

Someone said that Escient were being slow in developing the new formware for the Vision to control the 7000ES, but the 'prototype' that Sony showed at CEDIA last year was actually just a mock-up - i.e. an empty box. I suspect Sony wouldn't have provided Escient (who are part of the Denon Marantz group) with a working unit much before the official launch.

The Escient Vision VS can be set to check for software updates and download/update automatically.

Escient have just released a new Prontoscript module for the Pronto TSU9600 (and Marantz clone) to control the Vision. Last time I looked it was on the Marantz integration section of the Escient website, but not on the Philips section(!). It looks very similar to the Vision web-browser interface. This now allows you to browse music by album.

I'd be lying if I didn't state that while I've been waiting for the "regular" CX version of this changer, I still have been considering a HDD-based home media player (as I DO believe disc media will scarcely be around in a decade ((or sooner?))).

But I keep coming back to the same obstacles with it (HDD):

1. The number of HDD's required for 3-400 UNcompressed BD's (I got into blu-ray for the finest playback available- no thanks to 5-10 GIG versions of 30 GIG films).

2. The COST of the above

3. The current inability of these devices to run BD ISO's and execute clean playback functionality (FF, RW, etc)...ditto for BD Live

4. The time and effort to rip 25GIG (and larger) BD's to a HDD

5. Backing up the above in a RAID array or otherwise

Sure BD changers have have their own drawbacks (including easy, multi-room playback), but their plug-n-play ease and MASSIVE storage offering in one box is undeniable to me. And when one considers that the units will play BD-R discs, the gap between the flexibility of a media player and this device is more narrowed still.

In the end, I just don't think MOST (myself included) are yet ready for a MP- especially those with massive collections.

HD requires too much storage (no, I don't believe 10-15 TB's of HDD is affordable yet), it's too time consuming to rip these large files to a HDD, most simply are not savvy enough to properly back this all up/implement it, and the MP option needs to include 100% of BD functionality...not 85% or so.

I know most have heard this already, just want to lay it down for the certain few that will enter this thread specifically to let us know how archaic and thick we are for even considering this technological dinosaur.

Carry on.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

I know it was asked in the last thread but I hadn't seen it yet, has there been any screenshots of the GUI? There was one posted for the other Sony changer, are they the exact same? If someone would not mind posting some simple pics of the GUI, it would be greatly appreciated.

I know it was asked in the last thread but I hadn't seen it yet, has there been any screenshots of the GUI? There was one posted for the other Sony changer, are they the exact same? If someone would not mind posting some simple pics of the GUI, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason.

The user guide available via the support link in Post 3 has screen images.

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

This unit, NIB, is available for virtually wholesale price (or best offer), shipped, on eBay. This is all you need for complete Escient control of up to 4 BD changers (once the VS-100 receives its upgrade from Escient).

It's when I saw this available over the weekend that I caved and committed to Escient.

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

GraceNotes recognized all but the Spears & Munsil test disc that comes with the OPPO 83

the changer is slow (even on quick start) but it seems to work well

the repeat functions will not work with a BD disc as expected

noise: the changer has a fan but it has not come on after several hours of operation in A/C room

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

So am I to understand then that the new changer actually goes out to Gracenote via the network to grab the disc information? Or is it preloaded in the units memory?

it goes out to Gracenote for each new disc [you have to instruct it to load]

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

it goes out to Gracenote for each new disc [you have to instruct it to load]

Thanks Mark.
I do own a 777ES right now as was considering on buying a Escient unit to control it as well at the 7000ES. If both Sony and Escient use the same site to grab cover art, etc, why are some saying that the 7000ES does not bring over certain pieces of cover art whereas Escients units will? Also, can we link the 777ES with the 7000ES without using the serial connection?

Thanks Mark.
I do own a 777ES right now as was considering on buying a Escient unit to control it as well at the 7000ES. If both Sony and Escient use the same site to grab cover art, etc, why are some saying that the 7000ES does not bring over certain pieces of cover art whereas Escients units will? Also, can we link the 777ES with the 7000ES without using the serial connection?

the 7000ES Gracenote download is very basic as opposed to the Escient [I used to have a DVDM-300 Escient system but sold it]

I am debating if I want to add the VS-100 system: I want to see what the 7000ES can do on its own first. The only Gracenote stuff I see is when the home screen is selected: it will show you every disc loaded including cover art, title, etc

other questions I cannot answer

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it HDMI.org:what a mess
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
"A system under which it takes three men to check what one is doing is not
control; it is systematic strangulation." - Admiral Hyman G. Rickover

Thanks Mark.
I do own a 777ES right now as was considering on buying a Escient unit to control it as well at the 7000ES. If both Sony and Escient use the same site to grab cover art, etc, why are some saying that the 7000ES does not bring over certain pieces of cover art whereas Escients units will? Also, can we link the 777ES with the 7000ES without using the serial connection?

I just received my Escient VS-100 and am ripping SD DVDs for now until the changer support arrives...

The interface on the Sony is servicable, but the Escient is very much like Front Row on a Mac - the browsing, sorting, availability of movie descriptions, lage size cover art, etc, make it great experience if you're looking to waste some money..

I've noticed that the Sony/Gracenote combo missed about 5 titles completely, including Terminator 2:Skynet Edition, and picked up non-English disc info for about seven others, out of the first 130 BR titles I loaded. We'll see what, if anything, is different with those titles when the changer support arrives. Maybe there are multiple ways of polling the Gracenote DB, and Escient does a better/more thorough job while Sony is more rudimentary in its approach.

I'll try and post some screen shots of both, though the Escient web site has some pretty good example of that their GUI looks like, and according the Escient reps, the changer interface will be the same as the ripped library interface

I really didn't want to spend on the Escient, and there's no reason why Sony couldn't have added an Escient-styled front end to the changer, especially for the price. But I justified by getting accommodation pricing , creating a unified movie library, and using it as the basis for serving out content to multiple rooms with a new Intelix HDMI matrix switch I should be receiving today.