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The mentally ill person had the good sense not to attack a LEO, the LEO would have killed him on the spot..

The open carry law abiding citizen showed great restrain and discipline while protecting himself and his child.

My .02

CCJ

actually he was lucky. so good thing it ended the way it did, otherwise you would be here trying to make excuses as to why a OCer got knocked out and his gun stolen and was used to commit murder in a walmart

Some CConly folks have this fantasy that they will save the day. Hence all the "tactical" talk. Odds of getting attacked are slim, CC is for IF getting attacked, OC is for avoiding getting attacked. As in life there is no guarantee to either method that a person will not get attacked. There are just a hell of a lot less instances of them being attacked as people who look to be unarmed.

A victim is still a victim if they survive, there are hundreds of incidents of CC surviving attacks. A couple of OC even being attacked, go figure the odds.

It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.

Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson

What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.

Some CConly folks have this fantasy that they will save the day. Hence all the "tactical" talk. Odds of getting attacked are slim, CC is for IF getting attacked, OC is for avoiding getting attacked. As in life there is no guarantee to either method that a person will not get attacked. There are just a hell of a lot less instances of them being attacked as people who look to be unarmed.

A victim is still a victim if they survive, there are hundreds of incidents of CC surviving attacks. A couple of OC even being attacked, go figure the odds.

TAMPA — The robber entered the ABC Liquor store Sunday, pulled a gun and ordered the two clerks to the ground. One of them ignored the command and pulled his own gun.

Chicago Records First Legal Defense by CCW Holder

Two Chicago thugs learned the hard way that some victims are armed and were central in a demonstration of the value of concealed carry by the law-abiding. The thugs accosted a homeowner leaving his garage about 2 a.m. one morning, pointing guns at him in a robbery attempt. The homeowner drew his legally-carried handgun and fired on the two men, putting them to flight. Responding police conducted a thorough investigation to make sure the homeowner had a proper concealed carry permit, a valid firearm owner ID card, and had taken the required concealed carry handgun training class. Police are still seeking the two male suspects in the incident.

The Chicago Tribune

Concealed Pistol Stops Shotgun-Wielding Robber

A Lynn man and his friend had guns put to their heads during an armed robbery by two teenage robbers. One of the victims was armed, and when his robber took his attention from the shotgun he held to the face of his victim, that victim drew his legally-carried .357 Magnum revolver and shot his assailant, killing him and stopping the robbery. The other robber fled the scene, and was later arrested by police.

You post ONE story of a survivor of an attack with a openly carried gun, and I can post dozens of stories of concealed carry also surviving attacks while carrying a gun. The fact is, wayyyy more concealed carry, and unarmed victims, than open carry victims.

Last edited by WalkingWolf; 04-25-2015 at 10:37 AM.

It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.

Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson

What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.

Here is a conceal carrier becoming a victim of the knockout game, and surviving. Good thing he survived, but I have heard of no instances of knockout game OC victims. None, Nada, Zip!

You post ONE story of a survivor of an attack with a openly carried gun,
and I can post dozens of stories of concealed carry also surviving attacks while carrying a gun. The fact is, wayyyy more concealed carry, and unarmed victims, than open carry victims.

It is possible that I am mistaken, but the fact that I have a BAG (Big A$$ Gun) on my hip may deter them from approaching me with criminal intent? I want them to know that I do not play fair. I carry a gun.

Having a nice house can make you the target of burglars
Wearing some nice kicks can make you the target of thugs
Flashing money can make you a target of a hoodlum
Wearing nice clothes can make you the target of a mugger
Wearing a firearm openly can make you the target of a criminal
BUT,
Of all the above, only one also has a deterrence value.

I can't deny that OCing could have attracted this mentally disturbed individual to attack him. So what.
He may have attacked someone wearing a sponge bob shirt. He's mental. Anything could set him off. It certainly is no cause to stop OCing.

"I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

then explain why i haven't been attacked when i CC and look like a sheep.

Because you don't hang out in the batting cage section of WalMart with psychos?

I carry both OC and CC depending on mostly my personal convenience. I also have never been attacked by a psycho in WalMart.

I remain convinced that:
1) OC can be a deterrent of bad guys
2) CC could offer a tactical advantage
3) OC could offer a speed advantage
4) OC/CC however the citizen sees fit could be the obvious solution
5) Buying baseball bats around psychos may lead to a bad day.

Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

I remain convinced that:
1) OC can be a deterrent of bad guys
2) CC could offer a tactical advantage
3) OC could offer a speed advantage
4) OC/CC however the citizen sees fit could be the obvious solution
5) Buying baseball bats around psychos may lead to a bad day.

Nothing is accomplished by disputing with a troll except him gettin' his jollies off. SHUN ICKY Ignore him.

Useful more to reveal him for what he is so that others who are ignorant on the subject can see the truth and learn, as opposed to the troll getting to say what they want unopposed.

Originally Posted by MAC702

So let's assume that OC finally drew a crazy perp, the kind that was crazy and incompetent enough to fail. I'll still put that track record up against CCW's statistics anytime.

I'd rather be left alone than have the element of surprise when not left alone.

Not the first time. I remember a couple years back an OCer drew the attention of a crazy person in either New Mexico or Arizona. Guy was OCing, crazy person saw the gun and tried to demand the gun by claiming he was DEA. There's a struggle, one of the other patrons of the restaurant secures the gun when it comes loose, and crazy person is arrested. OCer gets in trouble because apparently you can't have a gun in a restaurant that serves ANY alcohol, crazy person gets put in jail (to then get released due to a relative having political connections, and then commit suicide by cop ~2-3 months later).

And I expect such things to happen again in the future. People (not saying you) have to remember that you can never remove all risk, only work to mitigate it.

Yes there is suicide by cop and yes I could see suicide by open carrier... Or some hop head thinking that person with the big gun doesn't have the balls to use it... Hence dead hop head by open carrier.

My .02

" I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

Bearing Arms also reported that one of Zumwalt’s friends “contacted Mr. Walker via Facebook, and thanked him for showing restraint. According to her [Zumwalt] has long had a history of mental illness, and has never gotten the help that he needs.”

Seems like the guy could have not liked fat guys.

It seems that Zumwalt, at 5 feet, 6 inches, attacked much larger Walker at 6 foot, 1 inch and 360 pounds because he was openly carrying a firearm.

Mr. Walker is of the CC Industrial Complex it seems, and blames his woes on the tool, and not the nutjob's act.

...sound familiar?

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.

It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

Maybe people with screws loose aren't attacked because others recognize they have a screw loose and people avoid them.

I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
"Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

Zumwalt, who hit OCing Walker with the bat, still submitted and remained still as Walker covered him with his firearm until police arrive.

That proves that even those with mental illness know what's good for them when their nose is rubbed in it.

Well, mostly. Some crazy folks wouldn't have been stopped by anything short of a bullet or two.

I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!