I cut my teeth on 2nd edition D&D and while I like a lot of the 3.X innovations to the game, I still prefer flow and relative power levels of my beloved 2nd ed. I've made a few houserules to bridge the systems and thought I'd share them here for some possible feedback. First the chassis...

As you can see this Cleric is a little less front-loaded than standard 3.X. I think this is more in the spirit of the 3.X innovations of making gaining levels matter.
The next thing you'll notice is BAB progression is 2/3 instead of 3/4 which is keeping in line with 2nd edition. I also made both iterative attacks highest BAB -5, because again I think it's more in keeping with making gaining levels matter.
I futzed a little with the spell progression because at the level you get 5+1 spells per level you don't care about those spell levels, but I accelerated when you get 4+1 spells per level because you do still care about spell levels 2 lower than your highest. And I like that it brings Clerics and Wizards closer in line with each other.

Domains: Clerics start with one domain and gain additional domains at levels 8, 12, 16, 20. Your domain spell is a choice from 3 spells per domain at spell levels 1-3, 2 spells per domain at spell levels 4-6, and 1 spell per domain at spell levels 7-9. I've shrunk the cleric general spell list down and expanded the domain spell lists to make them more like 2nd edition spheres.

Turn Undead: 3.X turning is awful. It's too good at low levels and worthless at mid to high levels. So I updated the 2nd edition turn undead table to make use of some 3.Xisms. I also made turning undead primarily a paldin ability and have clerics turn or rebuke undead as a paladin three levels lower.

* An additional 1d4 + (cha modifier) creatures of this type are turned.

Frequency: You may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + (cha modifier). You may only make one attempt per encounter.

Range: 60 feet

Turning Check: Roll 1d20 and add your paladin level and charisma modifier. Compare that number to the above table to determine what hit die of undead you can effect. A T indicates that a creature of that hit die is turned regardless of roll and a D indicates that a creature of that hit die is dispelled.

Duration: Turned undead flee from you by the best and fastest means available to them. They flee for 10 rounds (1 minute). If they cannot flee, they cower (giving any attack rolls against them a +2 bonus). If you approach within 10 feet of them, however, they overcome being turned and act normally. (You can stand within 10 feet without breaking the turning effect, you just canít approach them.) You can attack them with ranged attacks (from at least 10 feet away), and others can attack them in any fashion, without breaking the turning effect.

To follow will be a revised Cleric / Domain spell list that I especially would like a critique of.

Granted Power: You may use a death touch once per day. Your death touch is a supernatural ability that produces a death effect. You must succeed on a melee touch attack against a living creature (using the rules for touch spells). When you touch, roll 1d6 per level you possess. If the total at least equals the creatureís current hit points, it dies (no save).

Granted Power: You gain the smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a +Cha modifier bonus on attack rolls and a bonus on damage rolls equal to your level. This ability is usable once per day.

Granted Power: Gain gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls if both you and your foe are touching the ground. If an opponent is airborne or waterborne, you take a -4 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Gain +4 to Bullrush maneuvers.

Granted Power: Turn or destroy water creatures as a paladin turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster fire creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Granted Power: You gain the power of good fortune, which is usable once per day. This extraordinary ability allows you to reroll one roll that you have just made before the game master declares whether the roll results in success or failure. You must take the result of the reroll, even if itís worse than the original roll.

Granted Power: You can generate a protective ward as a supernatural ability. Grant someone you touch a resistance bonus equal to your level on his or her next saving throw. Activating this power is a standard action. The protective ward is an abjuration effect with a duration of 1 hour that is usable once per day.

Granted Power: Once per day, you can perform a greater turning against undead in place of a regular turning. The greater turning is like a normal turning except that the undead creatures that would be turned are destroyed instead.

Granted Power: Turn or destroy fire creatures as a paladin turns undead. Rebuke, command, or bolster water creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This granted power is a supernatural ability.

Granted Powers: Rebuke or command plant creatures as an evil cleric rebukes or commands undead. Use this ability a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This granted power is a supernatural ability. Add Knowledge (nature) to your list of class skills.

Man I suck at HTML:smallfrown:
That's cause we don't use it on these forums. We use BBCode. Check here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313) for this forum's table code. It's pretty easy to use, since Fax made an amazing guide. :smallcool:

Temotei

2010-10-22, 09:09 PM

When you do copy-paste the table code, make sure you make the <br> into [br], or just get rid of it altogether. I don't like it in there, so I delete it.

Actually, I just copy-paste from my other classes when I make a new one, but that's just me.

BlackLamb

2010-10-22, 11:18 PM

Thanks guys. I think it's readable now.

Mulletmanalive

2010-10-23, 05:16 AM

because of the strange way that undead are designed in 3.5, this version of Turn Undead is more or less as useless as the previous version at higher levels.

If you're using Pathfinder undead, then it MIGHT work, but otherwise, it could probably do with some alterations. I like the fact that it's not so negating of a creature type that works best in numbers now but its still not hugely useful at top end and compresses all of the higher level critters into one band. The idea that an Undead Hulk is more difficult to turn than a fully fledged level 12 Lich has always been one of the issues with 3.5

You'd probably be better off [forgive the heresy on the subject] basing the turning effect on the creature's CR rather than HD...

As an aside, I made exactly the same decision of making paladins the turners :smallbiggrin: Fools never differ, eh? :smalltongue:

BlackLamb

2010-10-23, 11:15 AM

You make a good point about HD being a poor standard, even 2nd edition had special columns for specific types of undead and the most difficult to turn were free-willed undead like the 12 level Lich.

The main reason I didn't do it that way was laziness, I didn't want to page through the MM and try to assign turning strata for each individual entry.

Even though I gave mixed feelings about the CR system, I think basing it off of CR is a really good suggestion. Turn Resistance would mean an Undead is turned as if it had a higher CR rather than HD.