Very neat chapter. It wasn't exactly profound or anything, but it seems to be setting up a lot of interesting stuff to come, so I'm not complaining. And the postcard finally came true! (I don't care if Azan's entrance was contrived or not, it was still really cool.)

To MaN, please stop with the whining. Berserk has expanded, there's more to it now than just Guts and his journey. The plot is dealing with the more widespread invasion of Midland, it can't only revolve around him anymore (and it never really has if you consider the early volumes that dealt with the war with Chuda/Tudor/whatever you want to call them.) If you want to complain about how saving the kids was pointless, then complain about the pointlessness of fighting trolls, fighting Roshinu, the ogre, the kelpie, the golems, etc. etc.

What I meant was that Miura is introducing characters and then immediately dropping them (Captain)

......

Quote

and i don't care what you say, the entry of Azan was very contrived. May be that was done to be humorous but I didn't think so.

.........

Quote

I just hope that there is actually some point in saving the Kushan kids and entry of Azan and everyone meeting up but for now he is not telling us much....

............

*sigh*

ANYWAY.Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?

Well, I was also wondering about that actually, it's true that she doesn't really look like "she knows it and hides it". But I think she'll get it sooner or later, it's kind of obvious, especially considering Sonja's tale, and Schierke's not an idiot.

I know I'm not an admin so it's not my place to regulate, but could A.D.D. inflicted boobs, that having nothing to say and don't have any feeling for storytelling, pacing, or even an understanding of the psychological (that means in your head BTW) consequences of having the story come out at 20 page intervals every 2 to 4 weeks, stop second-guessing Miura, please. Especially when it's painfully clear you have no idea what you're talking about. It's so very painful when people try to play literary critic and make fools of themselves when everyone thing they say is wrong just highlights how much they didn't actually see. If you can't see the story, simple, don't bother reading it, and certainly don't talk about it. The only good substitute for intelligence is silence.

So SHADDUP!

My name is Griffith, and I approve this message, and it is directed at no man in particular.

ANYWAY.Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

I guess Miura doesn't take Schierke too seriously, perhaps her age has something to do with it. But yeah, you'd think she'd jump to that conclusion, anyway, just hearing the word Falcon should bring it to mind.

But while she does know enough to seemingly put it together, I still think her youth and lack of worldly experience puts her at a disadvantage to Guts. He's more enlightened to the situation overall, and he's been around the block a few times. It would be interesting if he was to confront them outside of town. Not anything like a fight, but more just asking Schierke what she's doing. He'll probably stick to the shadows though and leave Schierke to Kid-ro, I wonder if there's an APB out on the Black Swordsman after what happened at Flora's and if Mule and Sonja would recognize him by reputation and description? Or if Sonja read his mind.

All I know is that a smell a Miura-esque set-up in the town of Vritannis.

Even the Skull Knight complimented her about that... Which is why I think it's a bit weird how she doesn't seem to be suspicious at all, so far...

Yeah, well maybe it all happened a bit quickly with her hat and the painful memories it brought on, the hanged Kushans and the pirates, and she didn't really deeply think about what Sonja said yet (not hard considering she's a bit of an eccentric)? Not to mention she's got herself some kind of friend, which is a new experience to her.

Yeah, I know... But then again, who can blame her for not noticing her back then? Even we, the readers, didn't really know that she would become a regular character. ^^

That's for sure, but still, she could have at least looked familiar to her or something (there's a panel in volume 22 where you apparently see through the birds' eyes, with Schierke commenting, and there's just Griffith and Sonja). Reminds me that it didn't look like she recognized Grunberd or Zodd either when they attacked Flora's mansion.

But while she does know enough to seemingly put it together, I still think her youth and lack of worldly experience puts her at a disadvantage to Guts. He's more enlightened to the situation overall, and he's been around the block a few times. It would be interesting if he was to confront them outside of town.

I think it's quite possible that they will have a talk about that encounter, during which one of them might bring that topic on, ending with one if not both getting to the right conclusions (revealing their knowledge of the situation to the other or not).

Well even though Schierke is very intelligent, she cant seem to know everything, can she? She was very confused when guts refused the earth axe back when she was handing out weapons...

Also, another question that comes up, does Azan still serve the Holy See? I would probably guess not... he is alone, with no holy see soldiers following him, and the fact that hes just sleeping on a tiny boat like that could mean that hes just wandering around. Maybe watching the events at the tower of conviction maybe changed his mind about the holy see?

And one other question... what the hell happened to the spikes at the end of his staff?

P.S.: I dont think the Pirate captain is dead

« Last Edit: November 13, 2004, 11:26:48 PM by DemonX »

Logged

I gave you fair warning! Now I am going to make a fool of myself in front of everybody! Feel the ANGST!

First of all thanks for the chapter.A very nice Isidro chapter -at least for me- and Guts' also with that super cool image

But, what I admitedlly didn't like was Azan's entrance...didn't like as much as I don't like BASTARD, to which hopefully Bereserk is a different thingAnd that scene reminds me BASTARD unfortunatellyThe comic relief concept fits Azan ok, but sleeping over there in full armour just doesn't make sense...That said:

Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

Could it be that Sonja can impose or see and use "moods" in a conversation/comunication the same way she can see "the flow of battle"?She is a witch kinda and seems to "get" causality pretty well...Schierke is also immature (perhaps due to lack of experience) in means of not seeing what it might be ahead or behind of some situations and we have seen this allreadyPerhaps Miura with this event wants to emphasize on these too: Sonja's ability and Schierke's inexperience yet

« Last Edit: November 14, 2004, 12:03:38 AM by xechnao »

Logged

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Even the Skull Knight complimented her about that... Which is why I think it's a bit weird how she doesn't seem to be suspicious at all, so far...

Its kinda confusing i did notice too except i was flamed rather seriously the last time i mentioned it

Nevertheless, Schierke should know Griffith wasnt a saviour like the fairy tales (She should have also suspect that it was him that sent the demonic armies to hunt for Flora), and that Guts hate him to the core, so IMHO i seriously doubt she will go with Mule/Sonja to meet Griffith if she know who he is...

In other word she didnt suspect at all... It can be 2 possibilities, either she just forget or couldnt really expect Sonja, such a nice pretty girl would be a follow of the demonic villian, OR Miura forget how Scherke was introduced

Or maybe Schierke knows who Mule and Sonja are and she doesn't care? They have never done anything wrong to her and even if you do hate someguy(Griffith in this instance) you don't automatically hate everyone that is his friend or it is somehow related to him.

Could it be that Sonja can impose or see and use "moods" in a conversation/comunication the same way she can see "the flow of battle"?

I don't think so, but it reminded me of something: if Schierke had made the relation between Sonja's falcon (Griffith) and the Falcon of Darkness, Sonja would have probably been able to catch her thought...

Or maybe Schierke knows who Mule and Sonja are and she doesn't care? They have never done anything wrong to her and even if you do hate someguy(Griffith in this instance) you don't automatically hate everyone that is his friend or it is somehow related to him.

Well, Sonja apparently idolizes Griffith and sees him as the perfect "good-and-kind-and-beautiful" guy. Considering the situation and Schierke's emotional state, I don't think she'd just leave it at that.

Yeah, but remember Sonja how kinda misterious is...I mean, remember the apostle that was about to eat her and immediatelly after Irvine's interference she was trying to win him over promissing him a dead corpse or so if I remember...I think the word "witch" fits her well, for her manners and way...more than Schierke I would say which her character is more of the druidical type I guessI believe Sonja is more cunning than her face makes her seem

« Last Edit: November 14, 2004, 11:23:33 AM by xechnao »

Logged

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.Pay attention people. Watch your back!

In his current condition, I'd bet that he's very thankful for every opportunity to NOT fight and just get to the Elfhelm without too much attention. Which does not mean he'd hesitate to swing DS around a bit when situation necessitates.

yea that's what i thought as well, but Guts has always joined in a fight regardless of his condition, maybe he's learning or something else...there's something sinister or serious going on i think

Yeah, but remember Sonja how kinda misterious is...I mean, remember the apostle that was about to eat her and immediatelly after Irvine's interference she was trying to win him over promissing him a dead corpse or so if I remember...

She did so because she considers them as her comrades, the bad guys of the band, but still part of it, all serving Griffith. As for being "mysterious", I think she's just eccentric really, as I said earlier. It probably came along with her powers.

She did so because she considers them as her comrades, the bad guys of the band, but still part of it, all serving Griffith. As for being "mysterious", I think she's just eccentric really, as I said earlier. It probably came along with her powers.

Really? So why did she went away the camp in distress if she is such a loyal comrade or even told such a tale to Schierke?..she does not consider herself a duck follower, she has her personality and she ain't so dumb

Yeah well it's great, but Miura calls Schierke a witch, and Sonja a shaman (I think that's what Grunberd calls her), so let's stick with it.

Stick with what? Nomination and titles don't have the official meaning you address here...Schierke manipulates the forces of nature, which comes more near to the druid model, this is just what I wanted to say...in comparison to Sonja on the other hand who seems to get to see the flow of fate, coming more near to something like a fortune teller or a witchPlain as that...let Grunberd out of this

Logged

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Really? So why did she went away the camp in distress if she is such a loyal comrade or even told such a tale to Schierke?..she does not consider herself a duck follower, she has her personality and she ain't so dumb

You miss the point, and she doesn't consider herself a duck indeed, but a kite, closer to the Falcon than any other thing... As for why she left the camp, she herself says it's because she was jealous of Charlotte, as any young girl having a crush on someone that gets married to another girl would. I don't see how it relates to her loyalty, now what did you want to say, that she's a traitor to the Hawks?

Schierke manipulates the forces of nature, which comes more near to the druid model, this is just what I wanted to say...

She doesn't really manipulate the forces of nature, rather she calls to some specific spirits and to the elemental kings when she needs help, and her overall character doesn't fit the druid archetype at all (she doesn't transform into various animals, prophesy, control the weather, levitate, or is even able to magically heal wounds for example, and we've yet to see her cutting mistletoe with a golden sickle ).

in comparison to Sonja on the other hand who seems to get to see the flow of fate, coming more near to something like a fortune teller or a witch

For all we know, she can just read people's minds (though her power grows when near to Griffith)... And I'd like to know what you precisely define as a witch, seeing how many different definitions of the word there is, all over the world.

"Stick with the names and designations the mangaka uses to refer to his characters."

This is irrelevant to the topic but if you want to still focus on this here is my take...Griffith's issued his orders as that witches belong to axis of evil and attacked Flora...But truth is not that his enemy is wizardry itself as magic gets used in all ways aroundOnly magic users that could oppose him and fight him and Sonja obviously isn't one of them...But since his orders to his army were to strike against witches it's clear that Sonja couldn't be named a witch inside Hawk Team's ranks*

She doesn't really manipulate the forces of nature, rather she calls to some specific spirits and to the elemental kings when she needs help, and her overall character doesn't fit the druid archetype at all (she doesn't transform into various animals, prophesy, control the weather, levitate, or is even able to magically heal wounds, etc).

Elemental kings, that thing at Qlipoth she summoned are things of nature...Remember she also put her spirit inside a bird once Even the tools she has been using in her magic are natural ones :the things to throw against trolls, the hair, the flame arrows...Even the way she uses magic on people is natural: block their natural ability of motion or make them move like chimps, heheRemember also how she expresses herself about the city, about the urban environment two episodes backSchierke is the shaman, druid kind of magic userOn the other hand Godhand for example is akin to a different approach on the use of magic who has more to do with desire, desperation and strong emotions like thatTwo different approaches, two different uses...Schierke has described how HER type of use of magic used to help people in their rural lifestyle in the past: healing illnesses and various village issues to name

For all we know, she can just read people's minds (though her power grows when near to Griffith)...

She sees fate...she knew about Griffith coming, she sees the flow of battle and stuff like that...as far as her powers growing when near to Griffith I don't remember anything in the manga showing that, perhaps you are right I don't remember thisSonja is a fortune teller or "medium" kinda, a diviner who can see into persons and situations...When I said that she is misterious I intented something that agrees with your phrase "It probably came along with her powers.":Her point of focus is that she is still a person but more gifted than others...For her, I give a "witch" characterization with a negative sense

And I'd like to know what you precisely define as a witch, seeing how many different definitions of the word there is, all over the world.

This is what you should have said first point instead of telling me that I don't get the point and that I ain't authorized to say what I was trying to say...go figure Well, I hope I have exhausted it nowIn short, I want to give to "witch" a negative (twisted?) meaning while to druid a more positive one regarding people*Remember that Griffith's named enemies are the "witches", the even possibly good willed magic users that the Holy Order is also after

« Last Edit: November 14, 2004, 05:51:46 PM by xechnao »

Logged

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.Pay attention people. Watch your back!

You don't know what you are talking about... But you actually have a point that you didn't intend to make here.

The episode 214 is titled "Shaman", and it refers to Schierke. I think it more precisely refers to her ability to communicate with "spirits", leaving her body through a trance and ascending to another plane of existence.

Now, we have to consider the fact that this episode title is written in Katakana, associating to it the occidental meaning of a "shaman" (this word has different meanings and variations depending on different cultures anyway), while the word used by Grunberd is a Japanese one ("miko").

Actually, after some search, I think that "medium" (a "shrine maiden", a "virgin consecrated to a deity") would be more appropriate (where are all the translators when you need them?! ), so my bad (Sonja calls herself like that in this episode actually, Saiki just translated it "maiden"). This is one of the reasons I'd rather stick to what Miura calls them, rather than trying to be a smartass and thinking I know better (get the hint?).

She sees fate...she knew about Griffith coming, she sees the flow of battle and stuff like that...

No, she's not seeing "fate", she knew about Griffith coming because of the collective dream (and she wasn't the only one), and seeing the "flow of battle" relates to her mind reading ability, and is seemingly a result of her being close to Griffith (from what she tells him).

In short, I want to give to "witch" a negative (twisted?) meaning while to druid a more positive one regarding people

Ok, so basically, you invent meanings to words you don't know anything about, and use them to refer to fictional characters while nullifying those the story's creator himself uses, right? Ridiculous...

I'm not letting an argument like that spoiling this thread any further (I skipped the gibberish and the parts were you agreed with me, hope you don't mind), so you'd better make your reply brief and non-provocative, since everybody knows already that you will reply for sure (how predictable...).

I think (and hope) you can agree with the fact that Sonja's a "medium", and that Schierke's a witch (generally speaking, and she even has the famous outfit ), manipulating magic, using the help of spirits, etc. It would be good to just leave it at that.

Ugh, I read the beginnings of the argument, jesus how stupid. Xech, when you're bored would you please just go jerkoff and stop coming on our board. Haha, pun city.

Provocation? Ugh, no thank you...not here.Take it on shooting the breeze...won't replying this shit here any more

Logged

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Provocation? Ugh, no thank you...not here.Take it on shooting the breeze...won't replying this shit here any more

I hope by "shit" you mean everything said here. =) So wait, I could call you a lying, self-righteous, delusuional sonufabitch who thinks he knows what's best for the world but is really a 20-something loser kareening towrds thirty with no prospects in front of a computer screen on the Net trying to make a life of it and failing miserably and you wouldn't have a retort?

That's great, way to grow, man.

BTW, how was Iraq this week? Did I ever tell you about how I was in the Dessert Strom?

P.S. Next chapter, who thinks Guts puts it together that the Hawks are in town? =)