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You know, this could be interesting, if they were to be more honest about how the kids live. I mean, lots of couples divorce, and the relationship of both parents to the kids changes.

I'm interested in how much help the Gosselins have. I'm interested in how things actually get done in their household. But I expect that we'll see a series of prepared shows in which each parent appears to be doing it all by himself or herself.

What happened to the other whole seasons of shows that were made and never aired. Are we going to see those, but just slightly edited? I think TLC is going to try to put the best face possible on these shows and it is just to soon.

The first two ran. The renovation show was moderately interesting, having been filmed largely before the split, as Kate refused to allow her admitted lack of knowledge about renovations to stop her trashing of Jon ("What planet are you from?"), despite his prior experience in the area.

The second episode, the camping trip, was a complete sham. You can't pretend to be "supermom" when you're surrounded by help, but that DIDN'T STOP Kate.

Wow..you sure don't care for Kate huh? LOL!! Actually, given just how much of a twit Jon has been lately, I give Kate credit for even being in the same room as him!! And of course she has help. Would you be able to handle 8 kids all by yourself? Do you honestly think that Jon doesn't have help when it's his turn with the kids? (That's when he spares some time for them of course).

But the first 3 seasons they had a ton of family and neighbors that helped and it made it real. Then it came out that they had nannies/helpers/cooks/etc. the whole time while they played it up how hard it was with 8 kids. Kate especially does this over and over for the camera. Yes, they can't do it alone but TLC never shows it and sells it as they are on their own.

GO WINGS! 2008 Stanley Cup Champs!sig JSlice and by IceCat, and bobble head by Tribephyl

I was passing threw on the midnight repeat of the 1st hour. That was enough for me and I'm totally done with this show now.

I do love that if a suggestion comes from Kate to Jon or Jon to Kate they get shot down right away and Kate will belittle the heck out of Jon but 10 seconds later when the same thought comes from a 3rd party it's a great idea.

I do find myself looking for the help now and I think while they were at the beach I saw at least 3 different nannies/helpers and Kate went out of her way to wear a different suit everyday IMHO.

GO WINGS! 2008 Stanley Cup Champs!sig JSlice and by IceCat, and bobble head by Tribephyl

In seasons 3 & 4, I felt like Kate really wanted to have the show reflect her as "Superwoman", instead of as an insanely-demanding control freak who is the only person permitted to have an idea in her family.

I particularly loved the fact that, in the first episode, she only named one of the two other people who helped her pack the kitchen. And in the camping episode, the production assistants put up one tent and fixed the other, and a helper (Ashley?) was there with them -- the only thing Kate seemed to do all by herself (although she pretended otherwise) was demand that the kids take baths before sleeping out.

Show of hands: how many of you ever took baths before camping out for one night?

My family spent many, many years camping on our vacations. Believe me, at that age, if I'd been covered in the same gooey mess (thanks to Smores), my Mom would've found some way of bathing me. Kids covered in that stuff would've invited every bug in the neighbourhood into the tent!! Ugh!!

She identified the helpers in the kitchen cleanup, and I saw one with her at the beach. I didn't feel like she tried to hide anything there. And if I had her body after 8 kids (tummy tuck) or not, I'd show it.

Not sure about the different suits. When we are at the beach for a week, I rotate my suits daily. Especially after being in sans, salt water and a pool all day. My at the beach, I wash them everyday and let them air dry. And I avoid putting on a wet bathing suit at all costs.

I did cringe when Kate was being a b!tch about the ideas. I thought on that issue, Jon was completely normal and great. One of the things that irked me about her was how she has been vocal about Jon's "not knowing what he wants to do in life, etc., Jon's cluelessness, etc." Here was a time she really could and should have deferred to him or even just listened.

Having said that, I will cut her a little slack simply based on the timing of when was filmed. I can't imagine what they were both thinking and feeling at the time.

I think the beach was a goo choice for her for more reasons than just the renovation. And I think she stuck it out during the reno process for longer than I expected.

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