Narco gangster reveals the underworld
Cartels have taken cruelty up a notch, says one drug trafficker: kidnapping bus passengers for gladiatorlike fights to the death
By DANE SCHILLER
HOUSTON CHRONICLE
June 13, 2011, 12:26AM

The elderly are killed. Young women are raped. And able-bodied men are given hammers, machetes and sticks and forced to fight to the death.

In one of the most chilling revelations yet about the violence in Mexico, a drug cartel-connected trafficker claims fellow gangsters have kidnapped highway bus passengers and forced them into gladiatorlike fights to groom fresh assassins.

In an in-person interview arranged by intermediaries on the condition that neither his name nor the location of his Texas visit be published, the trafficker also admitted to helping push cocaine worth $5 million to $10 million a month into the United States.
Law enforcement sources confirm he is a cartel operative but not a fugitive from pending charges.

His words are not those of a federal agent or drawn from a news conference or court papers.

Instead, he offers a voice from inside Mexico's mayhem ó a mafioso who mingles among crime bosses and foot soldiers in a protracted war between drug cartels as well as against the government.

If what he says is true, gangsters who make commonplace beheadings, hangings and quartering bodies have managed an even crueler twist to their barbarity.
Members of the Zetas cartel, he says, have pushed passengers into an ancient Rome-like blood sport with a modern Mexico twist that they call, "Who is going to be the next hit man?"
"They cut guys to pieces," he said.

The victims are likely among the hundreds of people found in mass graves in recent months, he said.

In the vicinity of the Mexican city of San Fernando, nearly 200 bodies were unearthed from pits, and authorities said most appeared to have died of blunt force head trauma.
Many are believed to have been dragged off buses traveling through Mexico, but little has been said about the circumstances of their deaths.

The trafficker said those who survive are taken captive and eventually given suicide missions, such as riding into a town controlled by rivals and shooting up the place.
The trafficker said he did not see the clashes, but his fellow criminals have boasted to him of their exploits.

Killing 'for amusement'

Former and current federal law-enforcement officers in the U.S. said that while they knew Mexican bus passengers had been targeted for violence, they'd never before heard of forcing passengers into death matches.

But given the level of violence in Mexico ó nearly 40,000 killed in gangland warfare over the past several years ó they didn't find it tough to believe.

Borderland Beat, a blog specializing in drug cartels, reported an account in April of bus passengers brutalized by Zeta thugs and taunted into fighting.

"The stuff you would not think possible a few years ago is now commonplace," said Peter Hanna, a retired FBI agent who built his career focusing on Mexico's cartels. "It used to be you'd find dead bodies in drums with acid; now there are beheadings."

Even so, Hanna noted, killing people this way would be time-consuming and inefficient. "It would be more for amusement," he suggested. "I don't see it as intimidation or a successful way to recruit people."

Hidden behind designer sunglasses and a whisper of a beard, the trafficker interviewed by the Houston Chronicle talked at a restaurant's back table. He had silver shopping bags filled at Nordstrom, but seemed anything but a typical wealthy Mexican on a Texas shopping trip.

As a condition of the interview, he asked that he be referred to only as Juan.
He has worked as a drug-trafficker in Northern Mexico for more than a decade, he said, but has grown tired of gangsters running roughshod over each other and innocent civilians.
Juan, who has worked with the Zetas and the Gulf Cartel, the two major drug organizations that control territory along the South Texas-Mexico border, said that back home, he sleeps with a semiautomatic rifle by his bed and a handgun under his pillow.
"It is like the Wild West. You can carry a gun and you are Superman," he said of gangsters and killing at will. "Like everybody says, it is out of control now. We have to put a stop to it."

A recent U.S. Senate report contends the Zetas are the most violent of Mexico's cartels. Its members are believed to be responsible for the recent killing of an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent who was shot on a Mexican highway.

'They brag about it'

Just on Thursday, authorities in Mexico said they arrested members of the Zetas and seized 201 automatic weapons, 600 camouflage uniforms and 30,000 rounds of ammunition.

"I am not defending the Sinaloa or the Gulf Cartel," Juan said of the Zetas' main rivals. "I earn more money with the Zetas, but I know the (crap) they do," he said. "They brag about it."

With the recent killing of the ICE agent and perhaps other attacks, the Zetas also are breaking the golden rule for Mexican traffickers: Don't kill Americans, he said. It brings too much heat.

If the Zetas are crushed, violence will lessen, he said, and Mexico's older cartels will go back to the older way of doing business - dividing up territory and agreeing not to clash with each other.

Death toll has exploded

Mike Vigil, a retired Drug Enforcement Administration agent who was the chief of international operations, said Mexican gangsters used to understand that violence should be used sparingly.

"They love brutality," Vigil said of the Zetas. "They do not care whether you are a police officer, a trafficker or an innocent bystander.

"The drug-trafficking organizations are eventually going to have to deal with the Zetas."
The death toll has exploded since Mexican President Felipe Calderon took office in 2006 and dispersed military troops throughout the country to fight the cartels. The resulting battles have wrought carnage among local politicians, soldiers, gangsters and civilians alike.
As for the military, Juan said, "They are not helping," noting that the soldiers, like the gangsters, seem to kill whoever they want.

He also discussed some of the finer points of drug trafficking.

Checkpoints no problem

"We don't hide it," he said, telling stories of openly off-loading tractor-trailer rigs of cocaine in parking lots. "These are not lies. Everybody in Mexico knows it."
Even the checkpoints Mexican officials operate along the highways between Central Mexico and the border do not pose much of a problem, Juan said.
The trick, he confided, is to send someone in advance to bribe a commander so a drug load won't be bothered.

"It is better to tell them," he said. "It will cost you more if they catch it."
Tries not to be flashy

As for how he's been able to survive a decade, Juan said the secret is not being greedy or flashy enough to draw attention from other gangsters, who these days show no hesitation to cut down rivals.

He said he can quickly size up in a bar or cafe who is likely to be a trafficker, from the money they spend to the way they talk, sit or eat.

"You can tell in a restaurant or anywhere - that guy is moving dope," Juan said.
Other keys to longevity in the business: knowing your place in the Mexican under world's hierarchy and not giving the impression you are making more money or interested in taking a chunk out of another gangster's livelihood.

The Zetas are going to go down. They have declared war on everyone. They will not be able to keep that up. The other cartels are just going to sit back and wait for the Zetas to flame out just like the Michoacan cartel (La Familia did).

FAX

06-13-2011, 09:27 PM

Damn.

Cancel the Mexican vacation. If I want to fight gladiator style, I'll go to Topeka.

FAX

banyon

06-13-2011, 09:37 PM

What exactly do you expect Obama to do?

The Zetas are going to go down. They have declared war on everyone. They will not be able to keep that up. The other cartels are just going to sit back and wait for the Zetas to flame out just like the Michoacan cartel (La Familia did).

The Zetas are not like any prior cartel. I don't know that they won't be destroyed, but it's not a foregone conclusion that they can't do some serious, systemic damage before they do. I don't know any reason why people of conscience believe they should be ignored.

Ace Gunner

06-13-2011, 10:31 PM

sure

Brock

06-13-2011, 11:01 PM

So far, who cares?

ClevelandBronco

06-13-2011, 11:06 PM

So far, who cares?

Let's set aside anything other that selfish interests for a moment. To the extent that this could cause some Mexicans to enter the U.S. illegally to escape the violence, I do.

Brock

06-13-2011, 11:19 PM

Let's set aside anything other that selfish interests for a moment. To the extent that this could cause some Mexicans to enter the U.S. illegally to escape the violence, I do.

That's a different problem. I don't really care what spurs Mexicans to illegally cross the border, I only care that the border isn't protected enough to prevent it.

ClevelandBronco

06-13-2011, 11:25 PM

That's a different problem. I don't really care what spurs Mexicans to illegally cross the border, I only care that the border isn't protected enough to prevent it.

You separate problems more easily than I do.

Since the border isn't protected enough to prevent it, and absolutely won't be protected enough to prevent it, and can't be protected enough to prevent it, I do care what spurs Mexicans to cross the border illegally.

It presents the question: Should a country even have borders that "can't" be protected? I mean, if you cannot secure your borders, what is the point of having them? Or, put another way, if your borders are so enormous that you can't protect them, maybe you shouldn't have made your country so big in the first place.

FAX

Brock

06-13-2011, 11:36 PM

You separate problems more easily than I do.

Since the border isn't protected enough to prevent it, and absolutely won't be protected enough to prevent it, and can't be protected enough to prevent it, I do care what spurs Mexicans to cross the border illegally.

Does it really matter whether they come here because they can't find a job or that they're fleeing rampant criminality?

I do agree that he border isn't and won't be protected, but I do not agree that it can't be. It can be, and it's ridiculous that it isn't.

listopencil

06-13-2011, 11:42 PM

So...Mexico is dangerous and is probably a bad place to vacation or invest?

It presents the question: Should a country even have borders that "can't" be protected? I mean, if you cannot secure your borders, what is the point of having them? Or, put another way, if your borders are so enormous that you can't protect them, maybe you shouldn't have made your country so big in the first place.

FAX

I've never considered that question, Mr. FAX.

Our international borders are vast and sparsely populated except in those areas where the population is concentrated in the cities. The sparsely populated areas (or, to be more accurate, virtually unpopulated areas) are not hospitable to those who would cross illegally, but the chance of detection is small. In the populated areas, the level of mutually beneficial cross-border traffic makes checking and keeping track of every border crosser utterly impractical. Of course, the problem is more acute on our southern border, but our northern border is no better protected than our southern border.

When I say that our borders can't be protected, I'm assuming that we would never even consider doing those things that would be necessary to protect them as vigorously as we could. We are not as ruthless a people as we were when we enslaved one race of people and virtually wiped out another.

We would have to be prepared at least to imprison — but also to injure and to kill — a great many people, probably most often remotely with the use of drones; occasionally face-to-face.

We will not and cannot do that. We cannot even discuss that seriously. Perhaps in another time, but not now.

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 12:00 AM

Does it really matter whether they come here because they can't find a job or that they're fleeing rampant criminality?

I do agree that he border isn't and won't be protected, but I do not agree that it can't be. It can be, and it's ridiculous that it isn't.

I'm curious. Have you ever lived on our southern border?

BigMeatballBillay

06-14-2011, 12:28 AM

de-criminalize drugs and the market will dropout from under them and you won't have these problems.

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 12:32 AM

Legalize drugs and the market will dropout from under them and you won't have these problems.

I agree that we wouldn't be contributing to the problem as much as we currently do, but these guys aren't going to just pack it all up and start picking lettuce or whatever. I imagine that they'd move into kidnapping and extortion in a big way. Of course, that problem would be largely a Mexican problem. At least for a while.

Amnorix

06-14-2011, 07:02 AM

Obama unavailable, playing golf with fundraisers.

So....just for the record, how much law enforcement activity in MEXICO falls into the realm of the President's responsibilities?

Oh wait, you're a Republican, so the answer must be to invade. That always fixes everything in a very short timeframe at low cost and gets us the end result we want. Or something...

WAIT, I know -- let's just fly a planeful of $6.6 BILLION dollars down there and fling it out of the plane. Same result but fewer lives lost. I like it. Whaddya think?

dirk digler

06-14-2011, 07:21 AM

hcf if you actually cared about Mexico and the cartels killing innocent civiliams maybe you should support tougher gun control laws and not let all our guns flow south that are killing these poor people.

A new report by the ATF finds that most guns seized in Mexico are from the United States. The report found that “70 percent (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43389915/ns/world_news-americas/) of the guns seized in Mexico and submitted to a U.S. gun-tracing program came from” American sources.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 07:43 AM

What exactly do you expect Obama to do?

The Zetas are going to go down. They have declared war on everyone. They will not be able to keep that up. The other cartels are just going to sit back and wait for the Zetas to flame out just like the Michoacan cartel (La Familia did).

He could start by getting the ATF to, oh I donít know, maybe actually do their fucking jobs and stop guns from crossing the boarder instead of sitting on their thumbs and watching it happen.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 07:45 AM

hcf if you actually cared about Mexico and the cartels killing innocent civiliams maybe you should support tougher gun control laws and not let all our guns flow south that are killing these poor people.

How about we start by enforcing current laws.

(CBS News) WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief.

He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico?

"Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."

An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border. Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.

With the behavior exhibited across the boarder, I can see why we should just turn a blind eye and allow person to freely roam into this country, and then give them government assistance, education, and eventually amnesty.

Jaric

06-14-2011, 07:46 AM

So....just for the record, how much law enforcement activity in MEXICO falls into the realm of the President's responsibilities?

Oh wait, you're a Republican, so the answer must be to invade. That always fixes everything in a very short timeframe at low cost and gets us the end result we want. Or something...

WAIT, I know -- let's just fly a planeful of $6.6 BILLION dollars down there and fling it out of the plane. Same result but fewer lives lost. I like it. Whaddya think?

We've got our freedom bombs ready and waiting to drop.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 07:50 AM

We've got our freedom bombs ready and waiting to drop.

Iíd be fine with using the military to guard our southern boarder.

Jaric

06-14-2011, 08:08 AM

Iíd be fine with using the military to guard our southern boarder.

I get the impression the post I quoted wasn't refering to border security.

I agree but this didn't happen overnight. The cartels have been buying guns legally and illegally in this country for quite some time.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 08:15 AM

I get the impression the post I quoted wasn't refering to border security.

I know, it was some flame thrown HFCís way. Doesnít matter though, Iíd still be fine with the military guarding our border.

Donger

06-14-2011, 08:17 AM

hcf if you actually cared about Mexico and the cartels killing innocent civiliams maybe you should support tougher gun control laws and not let all our guns flow south that are killing these poor people.

Yes, I'm sure that the law-abiding cartels would not find a way to circumvent any tougher, new gun control laws.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 08:18 AM

I agree but this didn't happen overnight. The cartels have been buying guns legally and illegally in this country for quite some time.

The lack of enforcement isnít a sudden thing either. I only posted the most glaring example.

dirk digler

06-14-2011, 08:26 AM

Yes, I'm sure that the law-abiding cartels would not find a way to circumvent any tougher, new gun control laws.

Duh.. but why make it any easier on them?

The lack of enforcement isnít a sudden thing either. I only posted the most glaring example.

Agreed. I have stated many times over the years I am strong believer that we should place 30,000 troops on the border

Donger

06-14-2011, 08:28 AM

Duh.. but why make it any easier on them?

Agreed. I have stated many times over the years I am strong believer that we should place 30,000 troops on the border

I'd be just fine with completely closing our border with Mexico.

Ace Gunner

06-14-2011, 08:46 AM

I know, it was some flame thrown HFCís way. Doesnít matter though, Iíd still be fine with the military guarding our border.

the military has been "guarding" the border over 20 years

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:03 AM

the military has been "guarding" the border over 20 years

Ok, how about Iíd be fine with MORE of the military guarding our boarder.

Ace Gunner

06-14-2011, 09:10 AM

from what? a bunch of river swimming families? you're being played by your own gov

Donger

06-14-2011, 09:12 AM

from what? a bunch of river swimming families? you're being played by your own gov

Any and all people trying to enter our country illegally.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:15 AM

Any and all people trying to enter our country illegally.

I didnít think it was that hard to figure out. :shrug:

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 09:16 AM

Yes, I'm sure that the law-abiding cartels would not find a way to circumvent any tougher, new gun control laws.

Yeah. Anyone who thinks that tough drug laws are a problem, but tough gun laws could be a solution, isn't thinking clearly.

Profit trumps laws.

Ace Gunner

06-14-2011, 09:23 AM

Any and all people trying to enter our country illegally.

the military has been guarding our borders a very long time, yet women, children & ppl of all ages that lack a 2nd grade education somehow defeat our militarized borders. you'd think ppl would begin to wonder. few do.

Donger

06-14-2011, 09:25 AM

the military has been guarding our borders a very long time, yet women, children & ppl of all ages that lack a 2nd grade education somehow defeat our militarized borders. you'd think ppl would begin to wonder. few do.

Wonder what? That there aren't enough or are you suggesting some kind of conspiracy?

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:28 AM

the military has been guarding our borders a very long time, yet women, children & ppl of all ages that lack a 2nd grade education somehow defeat our militarized borders. you'd think ppl would begin to wonder. few do.

If youíre applying this word to describe our boarder security I donít think you know what it actually means.

Ace Gunner

06-14-2011, 09:30 AM

no

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 09:30 AM

Donger: If we were to close the border, would you have a plan to compensate companies that operate on both sides for the loss of business and use of property? If so, how?

Donger

06-14-2011, 09:31 AM

Donger: If we were to close the border, would you have a plan to compensate companies that operate on both sides for the loss of business and use of property? If so, how?

No.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:34 AM

Donger: If we were to close the border, would you have a plan to compensate companies that operate on both sides for the loss of business and use of property? If so, how?

If theyíre doing business legally how are they going to be hurt by cutting off the flow of illegal traffic?

Ace Gunner

06-14-2011, 09:37 AM

the US border is closed. you need permission to enter. how in the hell do you guys make a living?

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 09:38 AM

No.

Uh huh.

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 09:38 AM

If they’re doing business legally how are they going to be hurt by cutting off the flow of illegal traffic?

Donger talked about completely closing the border. Not stopping the flow of illegals.

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 09:39 AM

the US border is closed. you need permission to enter. how in the hell do you guys make a living?

Tell me what drugs you're on first.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:41 AM

Donger talked about completely closing the border. Not stopping the flow of illegals.

If he did I missed it. This is what Iím referring too.

Any and all people trying to enter our country illegally.

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 09:42 AM

If he did I missed it. This is what Iím referring too.

Post #30.

Donger

06-14-2011, 09:42 AM

the US border is closed. you need permission to enter. how in the hell do you guys make a living?

Not if you enter illegally.

Donger

06-14-2011, 09:44 AM

Uh huh.

There's always an additional risk of choosing to do business with a foreign country. As long as no one forced these businesses of which you speak to do business with Mexico, meh.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:45 AM

the US border is closed. you need permission to enter.

And yet hundreds if not thousands make it across the ďclosedĒ boarder every day. Are you under the mistaken impression that is because of too much boarder enforcement?

how in the hell do you guys make a living?

By dealing logically with facts.
You?

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:46 AM

Post #30.

I see, fair questions then.

Ace Gunner

06-14-2011, 09:55 AM

you should go to mexico

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 09:59 AM

you should go to mexico

Been there multiple times. Point?

patteeu

06-14-2011, 10:03 AM

What exactly do you expect Obama to do

Schedule a tee time with three others who don't intimidate him too much and book Big Boi for a party/show at the White House.

dirk digler

06-14-2011, 10:06 AM

the military has been guarding our borders a very long time, yet women, children & ppl of all ages that lack a 2nd grade education somehow defeat our militarized borders. you'd think ppl would begin to wonder. few do.

It presents the question: Should a country even have borders that "can't" be protected? I mean, if you cannot secure your borders, what is the point of having them? Or, put another way, if your borders are so enormous that you can't protect them, maybe you shouldn't have made your country so big in the first place.

FAX

Or maybe it needs to be bigger. It would be a lot easier to secure the southern border if that border was defined by the panama canal. :shrug:

Jaric

06-14-2011, 10:08 AM

Schedule a tee time with three others who don't intimidate him too much and book Big Boi for a party/show at the White House.

If I was president, you can rest assured Outkast would have an open invitation to stop in whenever they wanted.

I might even name Andre 3000 as my "Secretary of Funk"

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 10:10 AM

If I was president, you can rest assured Outkast would have an open invitation to stop in whenever they wanted.

I might even name Andre 3000 as my "Secretary of Funk"

Not funny. /George Clinton

patteeu

06-14-2011, 10:11 AM

hcf if you actually cared about Mexico and the cartels killing innocent civiliams maybe you should support tougher gun control laws and not let all our guns flow south that are killing these poor people.

:facepalm:

vailpass

06-14-2011, 10:11 AM

Let's set aside anything other that selfish interests for a moment. To the extent that this could cause some Mexicans to enter the U.S. illegally to escape the violence, I do.

Whish is exactly why those of usl iving in border states watch with concern. These animals already spill across into parts of Phoenix. While they would certainly stand out more in some parts of town than others we are all concerned with the situation and want the border controlled/protected now.
Militarize it with troops returning from Iraq. go hardcore until a more long-term solution is workable.

Donger

06-14-2011, 10:15 AM

Whish is exactly why those of usl iving in border states watch with concern. These animals already spill across into parts of Phoenix. While they would certainly stand out more in some parts of town than others we are all concerned with the situation and want the border controlled/protected now.
Militarize it with troops returning from Iraq. go hardcore until a more long-term solution is workable.

Yep. Two warning shots, then a head-shot if necessary.

vailpass

06-14-2011, 10:15 AM

the military has been guarding our borders a very long time, yet women, children & ppl of all ages that lack a 2nd grade education somehow defeat our militarized borders. you'd think ppl would begin to wonder. few do.

You don't have any idea what you are saying and should stop trying now.

dirk digler

06-14-2011, 10:16 AM

Or maybe it needs to be bigger. It would be a lot easier to secure the southern border if that border was defined by the panama canal. :shrug:

you are not suggesting that we invade and take over Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama are you? Or am I reading that wrong?

Jaric

06-14-2011, 10:16 AM

Not funny. /George Clinton

Considering that Clinton's worked with Outkast previously, I doubt the funkopotomus would have too much of an issue with my nomination.

patteeu

06-14-2011, 10:21 AM

you are not suggesting that we invade and take over Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama are you? Or am I reading that wrong?

No, of course not. I'm saying that if we had already done so, the country's borders would have been easier to defend. And as long as we had insisted on either assimilation or annihilation along the way, we wouldn't have an internal dissent problem either. Our window of opportunity is probably closed now though.

Detoxing

06-14-2011, 10:22 AM

Sometimes I wish Mexico had large oil reserves. Then we'd finally have a reason to bomb them and put an end to all this.

I have a real hard time believing that between the C.I.A and the F.B.I we don't know where to find these ****ers. We could easily wipe them off the map.

Clearly Mexico is to incompetent to do it, we need to do it ourselves. They are a threat to our homeland security.

We have no problem doing it to other countries, so WTF is the hold up?

Donger

06-14-2011, 10:24 AM

Sometimes I wish Mexico had large oil reserves.

Errr, they do.

patteeu

06-14-2011, 10:25 AM

Your wish has been granted. Mexico does have large oil reserves.

Detoxing

06-14-2011, 10:25 AM

Errr, they do.

Bigger ones. Ones worth taking.

Detoxing

06-14-2011, 10:25 AM

Your wish has been granted. Mexico does have large oil reserves.

Bigger ones. Ones worth taking.

Donger

06-14-2011, 10:27 AM

Bigger ones. Ones worth taking.

Mexico has something around the fifth largest proven reserves in the world. We also import a lot from them (second in volume after Canada).

Detoxing

06-14-2011, 10:28 AM

Mexico has something around the fifth largest proven reserves in the world. We also import a lot from them (second in volume after Canada).

Whatever dude, it was tongue in cheek, you get my point.

ClevelandBronco

06-14-2011, 10:30 AM

Whatever dude, it was tongue in cheek, you get my point.

The cheek of the ass you were talking out of, perhaps. :p

vailpass

06-14-2011, 10:31 AM

Mexico has something around the fifth largest proven reserves in the world. We also import a lot from them (second in volume after Canada).

PEMEX. Hate buying gas there though, always top off right before crossing the border.

Brock

06-14-2011, 10:31 AM

Sometimes I wish Mexico had large oil reserves. Then we'd finally have a reason to bomb them and put an end to all this.

I have a real hard time believing that between the C.I.A and the F.B.I we don't know where to find these ****ers. We could easily wipe them off the map.

Clearly Mexico is to incompetent to do it, we need to do it ourselves. They are a threat to our homeland security.

We have no problem doing it to other countries, so WTF is the hold up?

You're suggesting we kill Mexican nationals in their own country? Yeah, that'll go over great.

Detoxing

06-14-2011, 10:32 AM

You're suggesting we kill Mexican nationals in their own country? Yeah, that'll go over great.

How is that different from what we do already and have done in the past?

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 10:35 AM

Considering that Clinton's worked with Outkast previously, I doubt the funkopotomus would have too much of an issue with my nomination.

True that he probably wouldnít mind but if Iím going to select someone as the secretary of something theyíre going to be the acknowledged expert with the most experience. ;)

Brock

06-14-2011, 10:45 AM

How is that different from what we do already and have done in the past?

I think if you think about it some more, you'll probably realize the difference.

alnorth

06-14-2011, 12:12 PM

Looks like this graph may need a very slight update:

http://nssfimages.s3.amazonaws.com/MexicoChart.jpg

A lot of irresponsible or lazy headline writers got the facts wrong. Many have said that over 70% of guns used in violent crimes in Mexico came from the US. That is not what the ATF report said. It said:

more than 70 percent of firearms recovered at crime scenes and traced by Mexican officials actually originated in the United States

If a gun was not submitted for tracing, or if it was not successfully traced, it didn't show up in the calculation that was used to figure out the 70%.

KC native

06-14-2011, 12:13 PM

The Zetas are not like any prior cartel. I don't know that they won't be destroyed, but it's not a foregone conclusion that they can't do some serious, systemic damage before they do. I don't know any reason why people of conscience believe they should be ignored.

I don't suggest ignoring them. Obama has already stepped up military aid to Mexico. If things keep heading on their current trajectory, the Zetas will be no more in short time. They are fighting over a smaller and smaller slice. Sinaloa Cartel (which is who our Government thinks is going to eventually win all this) now controls Western Mexico and is pushing in on Juarez. The Zetas shoot everyone philosophy has fucked them.

KC native

06-14-2011, 12:16 PM

He could start by getting the ATF to, oh I donít know, maybe actually do their fucking jobs and stop guns from crossing the boarder instead of sitting on their thumbs and watching it happen.

One instance where they fucked up incredibly and I seriously doubt that decision runs all the way up to the White House.

Aside from that, absent new gun restrictions in the US, which isn't going to happen, the flow of guns to Mexico will not subside unless the money dries up. The cartels offer good money to US citizens for going into gun shows and shops to buy guns and then turn them over to the cartels.

Radar Chief

06-14-2011, 12:53 PM

One instance where they ****ed up incredibly and I seriously doubt that decision runs all the way up to the White House.

Itís a systemic problem, that is just the most glaring example.
And who said it did run all the way to the White House? Regardless of blame the Teleprompter can still knock some heads together and get something done. I thought you hypersensitive O-Bots were claiming he was tough, or something.