Get ready for an epic talk about comics, history, movies, the future and the past with Michael Jantze! His “The Norm” comic was syndicated for 10 years through King Features, and then he put it online exclusively back in 2005. He’s worked at ILM, and is now creating great animations for the web through Jantze Studios. It’s a great talk with a master of the art form!

Tom, I really thoroughly enjoyed this interview with Michael Jantze! I’ve often thought about my “late coming” to web comics and if the business model that seems to work for other, more established comics is something that might not translate for me. I’ve been adapting my plan as I go. I think there is a lot of eventual truth to what Jantze had to say.

Yes, Michael’s a forward-thinking type to be sure. If I was a venture capitalist, I’d be rolling the dice on whatever he came up with next.

Joel…I think we’re learning that the old way of thinking that there’s ONE model for pretty much ANY business to be profitable has passed. The trick is finding what works for YOU and your product. That’s not easy, for sure…the older way was simpler because there was only one or two routes. But the skills are the same…self-promote, learn how to use social media, find your readers. The idea of thinking about your audience as people who are a captive audience is an interesting one…because audiences are always moving now, and surrounded by a million choices of entertainment. A century ago when people took more public transportation and basically had the newspaper as their only choice, it was a pretty straight forward proposition. Now if they’re out there taking the train, they’ll be on their iPads, and who KNOWS where they’ll be surfing. It’s harder to find those people, but they’re out there. More than ever, anyone selling the idea of “one way to true riches” is obviously lying.

You know it’s a good podcast when it goes an hour and a half but doesn’t seem like it.

I’m a huge fan of The Norm and that was yet another well-informed conversation about what’s currently going on with comics. I appreciate Michael’s honesty with all of the behind the scenes info.

He’s absolutely right, everything is constantly shifting. My advertising job was mostly newspaper advertising, but the focus on social media and other things has changed everything. We consume and spend very differently now than what had been the norm (sorry) for decades. The only thing that hasn’t changed is that people are still reading comics.

But what I really treasure about this podcast is the comparison of Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith to The Black Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail. My god, that’s priceless.

Good stuff. I love hearing what direction people think the industry is taking. And with his course background, I found his take on the way things seem to going very interesting. I really like the question, “where are the readers?”. Also, his take take on PVP and PA business model. Lots to chew on. THanks!

There seems to be this recurrent theme in comic/webcomic circles of trying to find some sort of magic elixir that will finally make it easier to monetize our work (such as the iPad). The fact of the matter is that most people only have the money to buy things from their 3 to 5 favorite comics. If you’re not giving your readers a very good reason to make your work one of their 3 to 5 favorite comics, then you can’t expect much monetary support.

The disconnect I see is that there are many, many people on the web right now making very solid comics: great art, consistently solid gags, and regular updates. But when there are 10,000+ people making webcomics, that’s simply not enough to break through from comic circles to a larger audience. If you’re just one of thousands of people making newspaper caliber webcomics, why should someone read and support your work versus the multitude of others? You have to either 1. be one of the first with a seminal new concept or voice, or 2. be one of the three best comics in your niche. Just look at the recent breakout comics: The Oatmeal, Hark a Vagrant, xkcd, Axe Cop, and so on. Even if they don’t appeal to you, it’s pretty clear why they garner the support that they do. Now look at your own comic and ask yourself if you’re giving some segment of the world population a reason to become this passionate about your work. If you can’t think of a good reason, you may still have a great comic, but it won’t become more than a hobby.

A related point is the utilization of social media. Sure, you can do the obvious things like make a Facebook page, put social media buttons on your site, have a Tumblr page, etc. But at the end of the day, if your work touches people, they will go out of their way to share it, no matter what your social media presence is. And they’ll share it using whatever types of social media are most popular, independent of how well you have “utilized” that particular media. Just think about the last time you felt compelled to post about someone else’s work on Twitter, or emailed a friend about a comic you just discovered. What was it about that work that made it so you just HAD to tell people? If your own work is not instilling that same sort of feeling where people just HAVE to share it, then you really can’t complain if your readers aren’t, for example, sharing your work on Facebook.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be having these discussions on how to monetize and make the most of our work. The options are constantly shifting, so having a dialogue is important for keeping on top of what’s best. But you have to keep a perspective that the work becomes first, and just having a very good comic is not enough if you want any real sort of monetary success.

Anyway, great interview. That was really fun and interesting to listen to.

I think Tony might have just succinctly put the best explanation of webcomics success down on that comment. As Rina Piccolo said as well, it’s ALWAYS been hard to make it as a cartoonist. Webcomics have made great inroads, and have sort of presented a “Gosh, maybe I could do it TOO!” sort of scenario…which is true. Maybe you could. It’s certainly more possible than EVER before in history to find an audience and take a shot at making some money. But it’s also just increased the pool of talent out there. Tony’s right…now you’re out there in a huge pool of cartoonists, but people still are only going to spend their money in very select places. Think of it yourself…how many comics do you WANT to support and buy something from…and how many DO you actually do that for? Money is tight all around…if I could send $20 to all my favorite comic artists, I’d do it in a second. But you do what you can. Focus on the work…do the best you can…keep searching for new markets…but keep your expectations realistic.

Very solid points by Tony, who’s opinions are always worth reading. I think it also falls a little into the supply and demand theory; as long as there are so many people willing to do quality work for free (which there are) it’s going to be hard to make any real, long-term money at it. Or to put it more succinctly, it’s hard to make money at something people do for free…

Wow! What an amazing interview! Listening to such a passionate teacher almost makes me wish I went to SCAD for a degree in Sequential Art instead of getting my degree in Computer art… Almost. (Just remember, us computer geeks were in Norris Hall first. Remember that. )

Anyway, I must take exception to what Mr. Jantze said about the PVP/Penny Arcade model not working anymore. Their business model isn’t “Come to my site and check out my ads” Their model is simply own your own work, be smart and stay flexible. That way when new communication technologies come along, you as both creator and publisher are in the optimum position to be able to take advantage of new opportunities. Be it Facebook, twitter, eye lasers, or anything else that may come along.

Finally, to build on the point that Tony brought up, I wanted to re-post something I wrote at Webcomics.com the other day. This same arguments comes up all the time over there and I think what I said there can apply here as well:

Also, I don’t want to hear the excuse “Well, If I were to have started my comic in 1998, then I’d be successful too.” That excuse is crap ’cause most of us here have comics that are less than two years old and most of us are making awful comics not worthy of an audience. Myself included. You think most of these guys who have been making comics for a decade or so were rolling in cash in year two of their strip? Nope.

What have the Halfpixel guys always said to us? From the very beginning they have told us that It takes YEARS of hard work before you get good, and then it takes years of being good to start to build an audience that can support your work.

People ask “How do I get MY comic to stand out in a sea of 18,000 other comics.” My answer to that is; “Draw a comic that is better than 17,900 other comics.”

So let’s put our heads down and concentrate on our art and our writing for the next two or three years or so and maybe then we can start thinking about how we are gonna make some money.

Just head this on my frenzy of TTR catch-up. There’s so much to glean from someone who’s watched the industry evolve over the years. The idea that resonated with me is asking the question “where are people congregating?” People like Michael are so valuable in this game. Highlighted as one of my fave interviews to date, Tom.