The Constitution was a remix of earlier sentiments and phrases. The Judeo-Christian religion is a remix of earlier sentiments and phrases. Can the right of man to “remix” be circumscribed by what are themselves remixes?

MNPundit

I’m an IP 3rd year student and am working on a proposal for a new coypright regime. Mostly a pipe dream its true, but your ideas have helped out so far though I have just begun to research.

Anyhow, my question is how much of what you propose is US centric? The trend towards less and less freedom and more and more copyright has been ongoing for 500 years, and I don’t believe the United States can change the tide without active changes in other countries. IP is so global and increasingly more so, that we need a comprehensive plan that applies to the entire planet or we’re doomed to failure.

Alex Bowles

Ah, but you did gloss over an important point when you stated that “there was no plausible way in which Prince or Universal was being harmed by Holden Lenz.”

Many people would be unable to imagine how this could possibly be detrimental. But for the record company, this was a direct assault on their most fundamental claim – pay for performance. So while you’re correct to say that no one who wanted ‘Let’s Go Crazy’ in their library would ever settle for a lousy rip from YouTube, that doesn’t mean that there was no harm at all. Any time there’s a performance without pay, there’s harm. From a record company’s perspective, that principle is as inviolable as the law of gravity.

And it was a performance. Remove the background track, and all of a sudden the piece looses most of its value. It may have still delighted members of the immediate family, but would it have gotten 3/4 a million views? Unlikely.

Well, sure, but this is fair use, right? Also unlikely. There was no news about Prince here, no academic research, no critical discourse concerning him or his work. It wasn’t even a parody. In short, it could make no plausible claim to fair use. It was simply a performance.

And that’s why the record company expects to get paid. They participated in this hit, and they want their royalty. More specifically, Prince expects them to enforce the terms of the contract they’ve signed with him, which stipulates per-performance royalties.

Of course, people could say that’s, well, crazy. After all, not only was no money made, no money even changed hands. But here again, there’s a failure to grasp what the record company considers to be the core issue.

The first is the idea that this is ‘okay’ because it was non-commercial, and more to the point, it was in the low quality, and background. So what if it had been high quality? High enough for somebody who did want to circumvent retail channels to think they could rip this for free? Do we start coming up with universal standards for degradation, and start policing anybody who releases something that exceeds a certain, industry approved level of crappiness? And do we get Congress to do this for us? And what do the record companies get in return? If they’re going to abandon – or even modify – their fundamental pay-for-performance model, they’re going to want something in return, right? Currently, they’re not being offered anything. So they’re responding in an equally abrupt manner. It’s basic tit-for-tat, and as old as negotiation itself.

The larger issue is that thee was no possibility of the record label getting paid. The fair thing would be for Google to offer a free Amazon / iTunes link to the song right there in YouTube. They should actually do this for any rights holder who can make a legitimate claim to any element of the video. But they don’t Not yet, anyway. So until they do, I can see rights holders sticking to their guns, however mean-spirited and irrational this seems to the rest of the world. And this is exactly what they should do.

I have enormous support for remix culture, and remain dismayed by its marginal legal status. But what I’m leery of is the idea that remix culture can be developed purely on Google’s terms. If something remixed gets enough attention (which, let’s fact it, is the new currency) and Google is a currency exchange with all monetary gains accruing to them (via Ad-Sense billings) then they should, at the very least, offer the supporting players (i.e. contributing rights holders) the means to make the same conversion for themselves. And again, they should do this for the same price as the posting ($0.00).

From what I understand, they’ve got something like this in the works. But it’s disconcerting to see how long it has taken. For the first time in my life, I’m actually cheering the record companies for taking such a hard and unpopular position, if only because it’s profoundly fair. And because there’s no reason to think that Google would volunteer to do the right thing if they weren’t subject to real legal pressure. After all ‘don’t be evil’ is a marketing slogan, not a contractual obligation.

Anon

Don’t like it when the WSJ remixes your work?

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I am not sure this is even a “remix” vs a spontaneous capture of a baby dancing.

With an intentional remix, once out of the safe-harbor fair use, one plans ahead and can choose public-domain, creative commons or legally paid for commercial music.

If one spontaneously captures a baby or anyone dancing, one can’t recreate the spontaneous moment. Is there an exception for it?

Most of the time, if the spontaneous music captured is captured through a cheap microphone, the music quality sucks, and would be less of a commercial threat.

http://gnuosphere.wordpress.com Peter

Someone at the WSJ writes titles for _your_ articles?

Considering your strategy over the years has involved legitimizing the “piracy” descriptor, this comes as no surprise. It most certainly may have been the best strategy, but there’s no doubt that it comes with baggage.

Andrew Katz

Great article. I’m wondering whether the UK Copyright Act exemption for works incidentally included in films would apply to this – although the right is fairly severly restricted for music. Certainly, if Stephanie Lenz had deliberately played the song to make the movie, she wouldn’t be able to avail herself of the right, although she has a much stronger argument if she happened to grab the camera once the song had started playing (and either someone else had put it on the CD, or if she had started playing the CD without any intention of making the film) and her son started dancing. There’s very little case law on this topic, unfortunately, as standard practice seems to be to try to get rights clearance for everything.

@MN Pundit: there are gratifying signs that the seemingly relentless increase in copyright’s scope does seem to be rolling back in certain parts of the world. The Gowers Review in the UK recommended against term extension for sound recordings in the UK, and the legislators recently threw out such a proposal. I also recall that Japan has rejected a call for extension of copyright from life+50 to life+70, but my rudimentary googling skills haven’t managed to confirm this.

- Andrew

http://esm.logic.net/ Edward S. Marshall

That was a fantastic read, thanks for sharing it with us.

On the subject of remixing content: I recently came across something I hadn’t seen before: an Internet sing-along club. The general idea is that multiple people record themselves singing the same song, at the same tempo, and email their vocals to the ringleader. They then mix it all together with background music.

Sadly, my first thought was not “what a novel application of social technology to art”, but “how long until they have a legal problem with the background music?”

Bob Regan

I found your impassioned defense of “creators” interesting given your relentless assault on those of us who actually make a living from our creative works. I have been a professional songwriter, not a performing artist, not a record label, for 30 years and have seen my profession and my own income decimated by piracy.
You harp for several paragraphs about the frivolous Prince/YouTube dust up, then, as an afterthought, mention briefly how professional creators and all those involved in the creation of music should get paid from “the host of proposals that would assure..” our income. Exactly what are those proposals and which do you support? There are a “host of proposals” to curtail internet piracy but you seemingly oppose each and every one. “we can’t kill this creativity…” you say, but you’re only too happy to support the slow strangulation of the creators responsible for the amazing music, movies etc of the past 50 years.
And, again, the old innocent sounding “sharing” verb rears it’s head. I had hoped to “share” the fruits of my labor in the form of tuition checks made out to UC for my kid’s education, but I’m sorry to say your defense of those who rampantly, illegally have been “sharing” my songs has been so effective that that is no longer an option.
Last question. Who funds you and your chair at Stanford? Who stands to profit if your view of the world prevails? Google perhaps? I noticed the new Ipod slogan is “millions of songs, thousands of movies, hundreds of games.”
Of course Apple believes that their youthful demographic will pay millions of dollars to legally fill such a device.
Do they fund EFF, Digital Freedom, CEA? Follow the $.
We’ll, I’m off to write a song since that’s what I do for a living. I invite you to come to Nashville sometime and I’ll buy you lunch and show you around the songwriting community, or what’s left of it.

Will

Bob Regan: You’ll have to be a little more specific about how your industry has been “decimated” Do you write songs and sell them yourself directly to musicians, or do you sell them to record labels, or are you a record label employee (or have a contract with one)? I notice that one of the logos at the bottom of the NSAI (of which you are the legislative chair) web site is none other than BMI. I have nothing against you personally, but I question the company that you keep.

The record labels themselves have done more to ruin the music industry than piracy ever could have. They use musicians as employees but don’t even guarantee a minimum wage. How would you like to be hired for a factory job and start off in debt to the company because they billed you for the factory equipment that you use, and they don’t just dock your pay, but barely pay for expenses and you don’t see a dime otherwise until the debts paid. The labels marginalize anyone in the industry who doesn’t work through them by making exclusive contracts with everyone they do business with. Then they have the gall to stand up and say that piracy is taking money out of the hands of musicians and songwriters.

How about let’s fix the industry first, THEN worry about piracy IF it’s really still a problem?

Mike Levens

Bob,

I’d like to first of all point out that I have little interest in dictating “oughts” and “shoulds”. My statements are simply meant as observations about how the world is, and how it can or cannot come to be.

A simple truism is this: Once knowledge is public, it’s public. If you disclose a particular secret to a large enough group of people, it ceases to be secret. This has been true throughout history, but with our new computer-accelerated lifestyles it’s more important than ever. You see, a recorded song or film is nothing more or less than a unit of knowledge. There’s a certain finite number of facts about a song (the first byte is 0F, the second is 14…) which taken together, constitute that song.

An unavoidable property of information is that if you’re going to give a person the means to listen to a song, you are disclosing to that person every single one of those facts. There is no way to give me a piece of recorded audio, such that I can hear it on demand, with digital clarity, but hide from me any of the facts which make up the song. That would be like simultaneously disclosing and concealing a secret.

Imagine that I had some secret, and it was very very important to me that the secret remained only with those to whom I had disclosed it personally. Perhaps I’ve come up with a very funny joke that provides the listener with great enjoyment, so I’ve decided to charge money for the privilege of listening to my joke. And to preserve the scarcity of that joke-hearing experience (and therefore its market value) I decide that I’ll only sell the joke bundled with a non-disclosure agreement.

Do you imagine this is a viable business model? I don’t. NDA or no, I know that once enough people have heard my joke, the scarcity is going to vanish because people like to tell jokes, and because they know very well that I can’t snoop on every conversation in the city to enforce NDA compliance.

The only difference between a joke and a recorded song (or at least the only thing relevant to the metaphor) is the fact that a person can easily remember a joke in its entirety. The thing that has protected the scarcity of recorded media so far has been the fact that they’re constituted by a far larger number of facts than we can easily exchange in a conversation.

Computers allow us to automate and accelerate the mechanical nitty-gritty of exchanging facts. They provide a boost to the information-exchanging we’ve already been doing forever, but that boost does not qualitatively change the way we have always shared facts. It just makes it many thousands of times faster.

Now. I’m awfully sorry that so many music industry people wagered their livelihoods on the fact that this was hard to do. That’s rough.

But are we eventually going to give up on the idea that you can produce a particular set of facts once and sell them indefinitely, or are we going to outlaw the general-purpose computer? I don’t see that there’s a third option.

Bob Regan

Where to start?
To Will. I won’t give myself carpal tunnel typing an explanation of how the music business works, what BMI is and how a songwriter gets paid –or not– etc. Shoot me an e-mail at NSAI and/or come down to Nashville sometime and you’ll get some facts about labels, artists, publishers and songwriters instead of the ill informed crap from the blog-o-sphere you have taken for the truth. If I don’t change your mind, I’ll buy you lunch when LL and I go. If I do, you can buy me dinner.
To Mike;
You’re obviously a knowledgeable type but….this being America and there being such a thing as a Constitution, and an Article 1 Section 8 therein, I still have “the exclusive right” to my writings and discoveries. Look it up. The fact that there is now a new, digital, means of transmission of my writings does not trump the Constitution. You are welcome to go to DC and attempt to change copyright law if you so choose.
The fact is, music still has great commercial value in the marketplace. There is are large sums of $ being made from that music, but the creators and the industry that supports them are not being paid. The same people who make the $, inflame the blog-o-sphere and fight any attempts to curtail the piracy. Follow the $.
The last year I bothered to look, the top 50 songs downloaded on p2p sites were, every one, songs by major label artists. Hate to tell you but most of the people in the music, movie, video game industry are there because they worked their asses off for years to get the skills necessary to create something that has value in a incredibly competitive marketplace.
I’ll shrug my shoulders, give up the fight to protect my property and go to work at Home Depot if every owner of any intellectual property, that includes Google, Apple, etc., does the same. Any takers?

Bob Regan

Where to start?
To Will. I won’t give myself carpal tunnel typing an explanation of how the music business works, what BMI is and how a songwriter gets paid –or not– etc. Shoot me an e-mail at NSAI and/or come down to Nashville sometime and you’ll get some facts about labels, artists, publishers and songwriters instead of the ill informed crap from the blog-o-sphere you have taken for the truth. If I don’t change your mind, I’ll buy you lunch when LL and I go. If I do, you can buy me dinner.
To Mike;
You’re obviously a knowledgeable type but….this being America and there being such a thing as a Constitution, and an Article 1 Section 8 therein, I still have “the exclusive right” to my writings and discoveries. Look it up. The fact that there is now a new, digital, means of transmission of my writings does not trump the Constitution. You are welcome to go to DC and attempt to change copyright law if you so choose.
The fact is, music still has great commercial value in the marketplace. There is are large sums of $ being made from that music, but the creators and the industry that supports them are not being paid. The same people who make the $, inflame the blog-o-sphere and fight any attempts to curtail the piracy. Follow the $.
The last year I bothered to look, the top 50 songs downloaded on p2p sites were, every one, songs by major label artists. Hate to tell you but most of the people in the music, movie, video game industry are there because they worked their asses off for years to get the skills necessary to create something that has value in a incredibly competitive marketplace.
I’ll shrug my shoulders, give up the fight to protect my property and go to work at Home Depot if every owner of any intellectual property, that includes Google, Apple, etc., does the same. Any takers?

http://spaz.mindstab.net Mike Levens

‘You are welcome to go to DC and attempt to change copyright law if you so choose.’

Well, as far as I know, that’s what we’ve all been arguing about doing. Historically, though, the industry insiders have been more successful in getting copyright changed toward their goals than anyone from the ‘information is free’ camp.

But consider if this same sentiment came from the other side: “You are welcome to go to and attempt to change the way information behaves if you wish.”

I understand that copyright is guaranteed in the constitution, and for the period of time when it’s been enforcable, I even agree that it has helped creativity more than it has hurt. But I don’t think any government could possibly promise to enforce this right without undermining other, far more fundamental ones.

So I’m not saying “let’s abolish copyright” so much as “let’s watch helplessly while it dies.”

http://spaz.mindstab.net Mike Levens

‘You are welcome to go to DC and attempt to change copyright law if you so choose.’

Well, as far as I know, that’s what we’ve all been arguing about doing. Historically, though, the industry insiders have been more successful in getting copyright changed toward their goals than anyone from the ‘information is free’ camp.

But consider if this same sentiment came from the other side: “You are welcome to go to and attempt to change the way information behaves if you so choose.”

I understand that copyright is guaranteed in the constitution, and for the period of time when it’s been enforcable, I even agree that it has helped creativity more than it has hurt. But I don’t think any government could possibly promise to enforce this right without undermining other, far more fundamental ones (such as the right to tell secrets).

So I’m not saying “let’s abolish copyright” so much as “let’s watch helplessly while it dies.”

“I’ll shrug my shoulders, give up the fight to protect my property and go to work at Home Depot if every owner of any intellectual property, that includes Google, Apple, etc., does the same. Any takers?”

I think before long, we’ll all be shrugging that shrug in unison.

Bob Regan

Mike
Information doesn’t “behave”, humans do, and they do not always behave in the best interest of a society. That’s where the Constitution, government and rule of law come in. You’re essentially saying that there is no way to stop or even slow bad behavior, in this case illegal p2p activity, so we shouldn’t attempt it. I don’t buy that assumption.
I’ll make you a bet and we’ll check back in 20 years. Copyright law will not die or even be significantly modified. It has been of too great a value to every civilized society for the past few hundred years. The skills necessary to create something valued by large #’s of people will always be in demand. I’m not refering to a myspace mediocre song or a youtube posting of a cute cat,Those who create popular music, movies, books etc. and create value for others will be compensated.
I’m not an economist but I think that’s how the market works.
Is there a value to Louie Armstrong’s “It’s a Wonderful World?” Should Thiel and Weiss, the songwriters, receive any % of the $ that song has generated over the decades?

Last comment for Will

As to label’s mistreatment of artists, that’s more of a justification for theft
than a reality in the world I inhabit.
90+% of acts —99% in Nashville—would jump at the chance to get on a major
label or an indie distributed by them.
Any entry level deal in any occupation stinks, music is no exception. Any major
corporation plays 100 mph hardball with their contract labor.
If an artist has some success, they all re-write their deal points just like I
did in my songwritng deal once I generated some $.
Every artist I know was represented by top tier legal counsel when signing their
deals. Artists are not innocents, indentured servants or slaves. They make deals
with multi-national corps –the devil if you prefer—to get exposure. If they hit,
their lives and their fortunes are forever changed—90% for the better. Ask
them.
The labels will mutate to adapt to the new market but they will not go away. The
more indie product is out there, the more background noise and clutter there is.
Only the amazing few or the very powerful can cut through all that to get exposure
on radio, TV, I tunes home page, advertising, film sound tracks.
Thanks for the exchange, I’m done.

http://spaz.mindstab.net/ Mike Levens

Bob,

I think I will take up this bet. I don’t think copyright will cease either, but I predict at least a couple of significant changes. There are restrictions on the use of a copyrighted work which will still be enforceable and useful in the future. Public performances of a work in real-space environments, for instance, will always be detectable and punishable in the traditional fashions regardless of how the Internet enables communication. Radio and cinema are still distribution channels which are readily monetizable for the time being. (TV and home video, probably not. Bandwidth and video compression have put those within the reach of the home user already.) Live shows are pretty much untouchable, because there’s no good way to save and redistribute a concert.
Copyright will continue to govern these arenas for as long as they are profitable enough to fight over.

But I think redistribution of media for personal use only, is going to become an effective right within the next couple of decades. Assuming bandwidth availability and computing power continue to increase, the only way to prevent this would be ubiquitous government surveillance.

When you ask me if Thiel and Weiss should be paid, you invite me back into the realm of normative discussion. I love the song and I hope it has made them both a lot of money, but I don’t think any amount of deserving to get paid is going to change the public-knowledge effect I described before. So words like “should” don’t really belong in my argument at all.

But if we’re gonna get normative, did people start writing beautiful songs after the technologies for monetizing them for mass-production fell into place? Do you think that people will stop writing beautiful songs after it becomes impossible to prevent anybody from listening to them?

We may be looking at the end of the billion dollar media industries, but we aren’t talking about the end of art here.

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Report of our newspaper Beijing 6 days, 2012 inferior coronal ballot outcome is in kuala lumpur inferior sufficient couplet headquarters is announced. Like the situation of area of East Asia of in former years, 3 exceed in how does strong Heng Datai is amounted to and the country all join force of the Han Jin that meet day, without any hopeful reason, especially rival of group of Guangzhou constant Great Harmony has day of Han Tai champion of 3 big league matches, situation giving a clue is more grim. No matter from historical military successes, still look from integral actual strength, chinese team is in which group will deep-set death is sloughy.
Country of F group Beijing installs He Weishan contemporary, Bulisi the class howls and come into unavoidable confrontation of champion of cup of Japanese the emperor of Japan, this series looks be like a country to bring adversary reputation not quite, but in a extremely dangerous state of solid however Tibet. The Wei Shan of Korea of be the first to be affected is contemporary it is the family of the victim in a murder case that Beijing country brings, 2009 inferior coronal competition ground, wei Shan is contemporary how be a group with Beijing country the experience in contest, hill of colourful of two bouts match is contemporary as a result all with 1: 0 triumph, among them Huang Bowen punishs the ball that lose a point unforgettable. Although be in nearly a few sports season, contemporary level is in Wei Shan to glide ceaselessly, hill of sports season colourful is contemporary and mere 2011 rank in groovy contest 6, but show extremely strong fighting capacity however in the contest after season, conquer former SamSung of an Er FC, water and riverside make the strong opponent such as iron, obtained the Sai Yajun after season finally. Be in inferior coronal competition ground, wei Shan is contemporary ever entered Guo Yaguan semifinal 2006, country of Yuan Chao Beijing installs military successes of Asian competition ground.
As to champion of cup of the emperor of Japan, also belong to the first-rate team of Japanese J league matches, from on sports season begins, the antagonism result that team and Japanese team exceed in begins to rise, be amounted to like peaceful and green city conquer Japanese club, this brings great and incentive country the taxi to enrage. Additionally the oldest a dark horse of this group is bay exceed champion Bulisi the class howls team, 2012 inferior the coronal will become Bulisi the class howls the Asian competition ground of the team is in child beautiful. 2010 sports season, bulisi the class howls the team bends runner-up of house league matches finally. But 2011 sports season, bulisi the class howls however at the summit of one’s power, mere in groovy contest play away a match, final in order to precede advantage of 8 minutes enters the 2nd central thalassic jack-tar total final, and big changeover is performed in total final, the contest when be being added at that time still has 3 minutes to be about to end, but Bulisi the class howls however with 0: 2 backward, but last hour breaks even into 2 balls repeatedly like the miracle however, nodding the be acclaimed emperor in ball decisive battle. Install to Beijing country for, this group rival is the hard bone that gnaws hard.
Peaceful of G group Tianjin is amounted to and mix south the city, jack-tar of the whale of renown Gu Wu, coast central is the same as group, this group situation a little a few more advantageous, each group actual strength is more average. Be being mixed south the city is powerful group of Korea old brand, the experience of Asian contest is very rich. Mix south the city once won championship of Asian club cup 1996, 2010, mix south the city held in both hands again again inferior champion of coronal league matches. 2011 cheap jordans shoes sports season, military successes is surpassed with season hind south the city not beautiful, but in Korea sufficient assist in cup final however 1: 0 beat water former SamSung, harvested finally inferior coronal quota of people. Field of Ceng Yaguan’s guest ever lost the sports season on whale of name ancient house at Hangzhou green city, this supports team at that time inferior the coronal leaves the bureau is quite bad, but obtain a group to give line seniority however finally, it is the opponent with an extremely strong tenacity. As to Australian the division that central coast adversary is a mystery, 2012 sports season are central coast jack-tar is in inferior the 2nd show on coronal league matches, be in early 2009, head enter inferior central coast jack-tar of the coronal is transitory, group contest did not win out bureau, ground of coastal water hand scroll came again 2012, strive is in inferior the clue gives in coronal group. On the history of the Australian league matches that started 2005, central coast jack-tar enters total final 3 times, but fail to hold a champion in both hands. 2011 sports season total final, central coast jack-tar is miserable runner-up of league matches be acquisitioned by adversary changeover.
Can saying in H group is day of Wang Shan battle completely almost, dedicate extremely likely for fan many classical match. Champion of 4 big league matches is the same as Sino-Japanese Han Tai group, the competition that this also allows this team is shown turn white-hot. Complete north of the king in the king that has an Asia above all is contemporary team, complete north is contemporary was 2011 champion of the contest after Korea season, this team grows in Korea football in recent years fill do not decline, in recent years two win league matches champion and championship of 3 cups contest. See their agile and brave again inferior coronal military successes, 2004 semifinals, 2006 champion, 2007 8 strong, 2010 8 mix by force 2011 runner-up. Such team group question of the first line is not big. Does remnant the next give line quota of people? Can mix greatly in constant only champion of Japanese J league matches chooses between Bai Taiyang god, two team performed this sports season ” Kaizesi fatigue Teng ” the myth of type, 2012 is inferior the coronal is in child beautiful, can compare the actual strength that spells foreign aids only finally. With the champion of Thailand league matches of the group the team will make boy sending cent, constant group not only should assure to take 6 minutes completely, and should scoop up more get the better of a ball completely. From at present situation of Thailand league matches looks, league matches champion is obtained probably by team of PEA of cloth lira Mu, thailand league matches has 18 team, be in 28 rounds after league matches, PEA of cloth lira Mu in order to precede be the champion of the 2nd 14 minutes of advantages.
The constant that puts Gao Yuan to annals is big for, if with the group the 2nd line, be afraid in lieutenant general of 16 strong fight guest field confronts G group the 1st, this is the situation that Li Zhangzhu is not willing to see. If with the group the 1st line, the situation later is a few more favorable, kill very likely final inferior coronal 8 strong fight.
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