Darn it!! My Tivo didn't record the last 5 minutes of the episode. Well I can't comment completely until after Nov 3 (darn it). But we found out what side the evil waif(Eden), D. L., and maybe anti-Niki are on. Is HRG's wife as naive as she lets on to be?? It seems so. D.L. has a pretty cool power. And it is interesting that they are all so connected to each other.(Less than six degrees). Anyway, what I saw, I liked.

Mine cut off right at the words 'to be continued' so I had no 'next week' spoilers - but that's okay, where it ended was perfect for that - 'Oh...my' moment.

I'll keep my mouth shut about the last five minutes till you catch one of the reruns (its on so many channels, I'm sure you'll get it before Friday)

So ... lets see.

Nice little nod to 'Face of Evil' again in the promos (so .. does Tim read this thread? )
Peter and Iassic working together, and conference phoning, and figuring out the missing panal, and that Simone had it -

"Tell her a guy from the future said you needed it - she'll love that!"

DL does a 180- he goes from criminal Niki fears to husband she believes at last. Romantic moment, happy family in the morning. And then the mirror bit there - that was weird. Up till now, the mirror had been like a seperate entity - we'd seen it take her over, but we've also seen in a room after Niki had left, as if it had a life on the other side all its own. Niki wasnt in the room or thinking about her reflection as she frantically searched for her son in the pilot. But now, its apparently jumped over that little fact and become a hallucination. (Golum conversation toward the end was fine.. but I kept being disturbed by the fact that they changed how her power worked, and it was distracting.)

Claire Bear and the Bio-Parents was a bit of fun skit, surprisingly for our Evil Man in Black - loved how her geekboy kept offering to 'shove them into something' and such. Claire's take on her dad made me laugh - 'he'd unspool!' okay .. somewhat true, but not in the nice nervous breakdown way you were thinking maybe <g> -and the bit with the cellphone exposing his eavesdropping! Again with the cellphone! When will our master of mystery learn about setting it vibrate! - or maybe that's his weakness!
*quick, get CellPhone Girl from So You Want to Be a Superhero! She can take him on ... just pray she doesnt have a headache!*

ahem .. sorry, couldnt help that.

And Hero and Ando - surprisingly touching, funny and even poignant. and lunch is up so ... maybe I'll have time to post tonight.

In one of the paintings, was that a knife or sword heading toward the Shark? In the other paintings it was Hiro and Ando looking at a Homecoming Banner that had blood on it? Claire reaching for somebody. Claire being chased and trapped. And an man in a hat (Sylar?) standing over her blood stained body. Also Issac rubbing off the paint to discover the tattoo that Niki has. That was good. My Tivo cut off right after the evil waif was inviting herself into Issac's Studio.

It's also sad but interesting that the evil forces want to use Mohinder to find the other "people with powers". It seems that Sylar has already cracked the code and knows where to find them. I cringed when the evil waif was putting the moves on Mohinder. I just knew then it was all a ploy.

Can Niki overcome her alter ego and become good? D.L. is more than a match for her when it comes to ablilties, but is he making things worst by taking their kid. There aren't witnesses and the cops are going to really be chasing him now.

So I guess you can also scratch one bad guy off the list, but aren't there cameras everywhere? It is Vegas so you would think so.

I'm thinking Niki's alter ego is like a split personality. I'm hoping that her "wicked" side isn't really evil and that her journey will be about taming the savage beast within her. I'm also curious what her super-power is. Having an alter ego isn't a super power its a psychological disorder... I'm guessing super strength. Perhaps that is all but maybe more.

I like Peter and his brother... selfish politician role doesn't suit him so hopefully he'll wise up and fly right... pardon the pun.

Hiro is by far my favorite character. Future Hrio rocked!!!

ESP cop is great and I like the actor. Hope he survives.

Cheerleader is great. Like the fact that her power isn't really invlunerability. She does get hurt and even die. The super power is more like Wolverine... it's super healing. And I like the fact that it hurts when she suffers the injuries. It makes her decisions a little more difficult, although she doesn't appear to be faint of heart when she deliberatly harms herself.

And the devil asked, "Be you angels?"
And we said, "Nay, we are but men. Rock On!"

Claire Bear actually seems to enjoy hurting herself - constantly testing herself to see how fast she'll heal this time. (Wolverine didnt enjoy it all, tho he sometimes seemed to deliberately do it to punish himself. He didnt like who he was, most days) I wonder if the poodle incident was the first one that tipped her off that something was wrong? Unless she dove in to save Mr Muggles from being eaten by a ravenous poodle

Momma did seem a bit out of the loop this ep, which surprised me. She was so perfect as the 'your mom, your spy' parent - someone who breeds show animals, constantly asking about the unusual things they saw each day and then covering for statements of extraordinary ability - I thought for sure they searched geekboy for the tape because Mama reported back the 'walked thru fire bit' and they canvassed witnesses and found a boy with a tape. Also in the original pilot (which I made a new and better copy of and found a few things different than my first bumpy skipping copy had shown) as the fire truck races to the fire, Claire sees a truck going the other way, filled with armed men in camouflage suits as the back flaps open, and her mouth drops as she realizes she might be seeing the cause of the explosion and fire they just heard. I figured the Men In Black may have arranged for that explosion for their own reasons (or another Men in Black, but no reason to suppose there was more than one at this early point) to destroy something or part of some deep laid plot relating to the nuclear bomb going off later.

But she privately revealed to Claire some very useful info about a 'cough' and some chromosome defects that she had as a baby, with no parents for the mom to find out about. Thats the opposite of the what our devious Mama Bear of the Men In Black would do ... it really did surprise me - as much as finding out that the Evil Waif was just 'Papa Suresh's good friend' would have.

As much as I am reluctant to have Mohinder really have fallen for the 'Papa Suresh' bit, its easy to believe he fell for that kiss. Male Egos are what Evil Waifs have for breakfast, I'm sure Unless this is all a pose for him to get out from under her and continue Papa's work more secretly - I mean, when he found the algorithm he was sure he could crack it immediately - she shows up at his door and he has his gun ready, and then goes on about how he cant solve it at all. A cover? But if it was as easy to solve as it looked, they wouldnt have gone to so much trouble to show him the disk that she 'found' in Mohinder's cage. (wonder if the lizards real name is Sylar? Or if they made the whole lizard thing up, cage, chip and all, to guilt the son - look you, your dead father was so lonely for his son that wouldnt talk to him that he had to adopt a lizard and pretend it was you!!Guilt, one lump or two? That would motivate him to spend a few sleepless nights on the algorithm alright..

Mind you, despite what he told Evil Waif about never talking to him, he told his professor friend that he talked to him just two days before he was killed, and Mohinder was subsequently lecturing his students on his father's theories and defending them before Mohinder knew he was dead. I was sure he made up that whole 'not talking to him' as a bluff, and then turned to Evil Waif and demanded she told him everything his father ever told her, trying to interrogate her instead. I mean - that's a fair sign he knew right? Right?

What you never tried to justify a theory in spite of the evidence?

Tho, I do think he is temporarily giving up for real, not so much an act as embarrassed and tired of the whole thing, guilt on another level for what he is doing to himself and his family. It just might mean he is as tired of the spy game as the rest of it. (yeah, thats more justification.. whatchagonna go about it? )

Now, we all know that those people weren't REALLY Claire's biological parents. They worked for her dad. Though what he got out of introducing her to pretend parents escapes me. And he seemed very worried to think Claire might be in danger after Evil Waif (Eden?) told him.

KaraS

For we are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of the dreams - Willy Wonka

Yes, I too thought that evil bad guy with glasses appeared concerned for Claire when evil chick said that the Cheerleader was in trouble. Let's hope he does care for his adoptive daughter. It would make for a far more complex and compelling character. I think that would be far better than the generic archtype villian. However, his look of concern could have just as easily been him being concerned for his evil plan getting foiled and the shock of some unknown strangers being aware that his daughter was somehow the key to stopping him.

Finally, I'm not so sure that Sylar and Evil Daddy aren't the same guy. Many people assume they are different, but why? What evidence from the show would lead someone to believe it is any more complicated than evil daddy being Sylar? I mean, it's already been established that Evil Daddy knew of Suresh's father. Just curious for theories on this.

Finally, I'm curious which power you think is the most powerful. It's always fun to debate "who would win in a fight." At first I thought Hiro's power was the most formidable, but the more I think about it the more I think that Peter is the most powerful. If you think about it, if all the Heroes were standing in a room togehter he would possess all their powers at one time. But then again, if he is stranded on a desert island by himself he is pretty much helpless.

And the devil asked, "Be you angels?"
And we said, "Nay, we are but men. Rock On!"

Sylar/Radiation Man - This guy is not the guy that Matt shot at .... or at least was he under the influence of HRG?

Claire's stepmom - still seems out of the loop.

FBI agent, she seems like a good guy, but I don't know for sure.

Nathan (The Shark), this guy is just out for himself.... although he does pay off his debts and he warned his brother about HRG and Blink
.
Niki's husband (D.L.) still don't know for sure about him, although he did save the lady in the car.

Good guys

Claire's Brother
Niki
Micah
Hiro and Ando
Matt (but is he going to be under the influenced of HRG?)
Claire
Peter and Isaac
Claire's nerdy friend.
Mohinder

-----------------------

So what power does the evil waif have to be able to kidnap Isaac... or did she go the old fashion way and use a gun...... ?:lol:

Hiro is finally able to use his powers to save someone. I have to say, it is interesting how all the Heros are connected or have met each other.

We finally found out what Micah's power is, and why the heck did he tell Jessica where he was???

The whole thing about Sylar/Radiation Man was confusing.... It does seem like he was under the influence of HRG, since both he and Matt have the same marks on the shoulder. Is Sylar/Radiation Man the cause of the blast that happens in the future... He said himself that he could cause everything to blow up. But is Radiation Man the real Sylar that caused people's brains to be missing, people freezing and pinning bodies against the wall with sharp objects? Or is this a collection of people that HRG uses for his own needs?

Can't wait for next week.

Last edited by sleeper on Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

One of the things I love about this program is the layers that have yet to unfold around all the different characters. It makes for the catagorizing of good guys and bad guys very difficult.

When it comes right down to it I don't think any bad-guys have been definatively identified.

Mr. Bennet (Claire's Adopted Father) has been the front runner for major bad-guy from the begining. Granted he plays a very Macheavelian character but are we sure he is "evil"? Perhaps he is nothing more than an opportunist with a very utilitarian view on life. At best he could be a sheep in wolf's clothing... perhaps the head of a secret branch of the government set out to identify and protect the heroes. Granted he has attempted to capture several already and done so successfully on a few occasions, there is no evidence that he has an evil plan.

Mr. Bennet's sidekick is only as evil as his orders. Until Bennet proves to be more than just a protective father, Mr. Non-Blinker is nothing more than an extention of Bennet himself.

Eden, like Mr. Non-Blinker-Man, is nothing more than an extention of Bennet and as he goes so goes Eden.

Sylar is bar far and away that most likely candidate for evil mastermind and yet he is also believed to be patient zero. Is he simply just another misunderstood mutant or is he the one stealing people's brains?

Mr. Linderman is also on the surface an evil-doer but right now his plans as they have been revealed to us are far more perocial than blowing up New York City.

Niki's alter ego might be construed as a villain but we have yet to learn the whole story. In my opinion Niki's journey will be one of self discovery where she and her alter ego (Jessica) eventually meld to form one being. Ideally that being will have Niki's heart and Jessica's powers.

Nathan may be a politician but he's not evil yet. True, he is self serving and a liar, but this show doesn't appear to be painting with only black and white colors. Like other great shows, there are shades of grey and I believe Nathan will wise up... or turn evil. Who knows.

D.L. was labeled a villian by the storyline early on but he appears to be nothing more than a misguided criminal who is looking to change his ways. My prediction is that D.L. falls clearly on the side of the good-guys before the end of season one and well before Niki or Nathan find their footing.

Finally there are all the secondary characters like Claire's mom and brother, the dude that is radioactive, and the football player. As near as I can tell these are spectators in the larger story and will prove to be nothing more than canon fodder for the plot. The football player is a rapist and represents little to no threat to those of super-human powers. Claire's mom and brother, I believe, are innocent and ignorant of what goes on around them, and Mr. Combustable is just another mutant who doesn't understand his powers.

So who is the real villlian. My money is on Sylar teaming up with Mr. Linderman... or perhaps Sylar is Mr. Linderman. Perhaps they attempt to recruite Jessica but I believe Niki will not allow it ultimately. Nathan will eventually fall in line with his brother Peter, whos is a hero through and through, and D.L. will become the father his son has always dreamed of having.

And the devil asked, "Be you angels?"
And we said, "Nay, we are but men. Rock On!"

Radiation Man is not Sylar. But was he used by Sylar to kill the people? It seems that the man(Sylar?) that Matt shot at could control people's minds since he was going to make the FBI agent shoot herself in the head.

Blink can only erase/take peoples memories, so it seems that Sylar is independant of HRG... Does HRG know about Sylar?

Actually, we dont know that Blink can only erase memories - HRG said they drugged Matt, but it seemed Blink was holding his amulet as a focus technique as he stared Matt down to oblivion. Assuming it was still drugs (I mean, HRG had no reason to lie to Matt) he may have been using the other power HRG mentioned - HRG knew Matt couldnt read his mind as long as Blink was around. Blink can counteract others abilities, or at least their control.

Did you see how Matt didnt have severe problems with his abilities till after the visit from HRG and Blink? and we know Niki was taken once (actually only two people have gotten away, as far as we know, Mohinder and Nathan, both of whom cut and run rather than attempt to battle it out) I wonder if HRG is some private group messing around with anyone with abilities to make them less able to control it. Maybe they think they are providing an control mechanism.. but we saw how Niki ended up a vicious (and fairly evil) monster of Jessica in control of her abilities, all starting 6m ago. Who wants to bet that 6m ago was when she was taken? Jessica may be something HRG and Blink started up or enlarged, and that was why she framed DL - perhaps to make him an easier target for them, or maybe simply bcs Jessica was freed of a conscience entirely and thought it would be easiest. Certainly she has no qualms about killing anyone "leaving witnesses would be sloppy' whether they'd cross her or not.

IS HRG messing them up in his experiments? Is that the purpose - to study them and keep them under control - some he releases back, tagged with either the double mark, or the genome sign -depending on how controllable they are? Others, like Blink, never leave his side - as if when he is no longer on duty, they are simply turned off, or maybe tend to the Evil Waif and her duties. Isaac may never get out of there.

Peter's dreams and abilities are more and more empathic - communicating with Simone's father in his coma, - kind of fun how he tortured Nathan at the breakfast table. (sorry brunch)

Who else nearly choked or guffawed at Nathan's "I'm not using my family for political gain" - Heidi's jibe "Tell that to Peter." made it crystal clear that she knew the reason why he wasnt using her and that it was just a fake way to show support, that he was grasping at anything to make him look better in her eyes. The careful smiles, joviality ...Empty gestures, all.

I really feel sorry for the kids in that family - thats all they see of their dad, him trying to fake somebody they'd want, whenever they are around.

Interestingly, the times Peter trust Nathan the least, what makes him most angry, are the few times Nathan has offered him information without an agenda for personal gain. Peter knows that's not Nathan's nature and cant believe he's getting anything but lies, another manipulation attempt. Because Nathan would never do that. Just offer something. (Did I say few times? I meant twice) Nathan has nothing to persuade Peter with, bcs this behavior is too out of context for him. He cant say 'Trust me' or 'As your brother' ..or ... anything. Those are the things he says before lies, manipulations, guilt trips ... he cant persuade his family honestly and doesnt know how to try. Heidi is left with false pretenses that she can choose to fool herself with, Peter is left another raw deal - either go along with my lies or get out of my life, the role of the angry kid brother trying to kick loose from someone he should have been able to admire.

I dont think Nathan is going to change too much during the show (barring the Sylar wildcard) bcs I think the growing nobility of the other characters is going to constantly operate against the backdrop of his guilt, greed and self interest. Nathan may try to make the occasional effort, and maybe he'll do something for others in finale moments - but I think the others growth is going to make him seem like he's standing still, or even growing backwards somedays.

Thats one way to keep it interesting.

The FBI gal, I'd have said is solidly good, but we did see her weakness concerning Sylar this week. She can reason out when she's faced with a 'superhuman' killer, and she's put them all as Sylar's victims. This week we saw how she was ready to kill a fellow - a desperate guy who committed accidental manslaughter, but not a serial killer. That's how obsessed she is with Sylar.

And I think we've been given to the key to the nuclear holocaust in NYC - its that guy. He tried to warn them "Do you know what will happen if you do that? Because I dont! Maybe I'll explode, maybe I'll take this whole hospital, maybe this whole city, like an atomic bomb -"

And there we have it.

He could be the explosion that went off November 8th in Hiro's future. Or maybe it was Slyer, Sylar killing him that set it off.
Or maybe Sylar kills him, absorbs his power in the brain and then HE cant control it right away, he increases too much, and Sylar explodes - maybe its a result of combining the cheerleaders cellular regeneration .. its the beginning of the end if he survives that and continues the explosions in other places he goes...

Or maybe Only Peters indirect control of both the cheerleader's powers and Nuclear Man can save them - we just dont know.

But its interesting.

Meanwhile, the heroes keep gathering together in knots, as if they just cant help but end up crossing paths and helping out.

DL saved that woman - proving to Micah that he was still a good guy, trying hard. Hiro explained himself to Micah, who is the perfect person to see and hear all that is going on - too young not to believe in comics, too smart not to realize when something is going on. Micah could get them organized on the west coast while Peter handles the larger scale of things<g>

And of course, that is behind what is going on with his conversation to Jessica. In his mind, he needs to get his mom and dad together to save his mom. Its just that simple, and he cant see it any other way. He knows Jessica is scary, but that she'd never hurt him. If he can't have his mom, he'll get Jessica to bring her. If his dad wont go to the mountain ... but he wont have his dad run too fast either, he cuts the phone off before DL can find out. Naive genius trying to save his mom .. you really cant blame him.

Matt, again, defuses the situations smoothly - even settling for a phone conversation with his wife when he cant bear to be close enough to hear her thoughts. I'm sure he'd pass an oral detective exam even if couldnt read the examiners thoughts <g> and then to find his best friend is the guy his wife is sleeping with .. man. This guy has it so rough!

And Next Week should be interesting -
As our heroes move closer and closer together, it looks like this ep is draw us back into the wider view, that this is a world wide phenomenon and we need to keep in mind how connected the world is, to everything that is happening in this story.

HRG - who's evil science soul is somewhat heartbroken to include his Claire Bear in his experiments, but at the same time, by episode two, as you watched him watch the video you could clearly see him choosing science over the pain of giving up the subject closest to his heart. Like a scientist who gets too close to the animals he experiments on, he is torn, but wont let that interfere with his work. .
But as that moment gets closer - you wonder if he's got the nerve to stick to it, or if he'll break a bit in the end, and let her roam free a little bit longer,
and a little bit longer
.. until someday she breaks away and runs.
Or can something cut thru sooner, this fear that the others have for the cheerleader - can it push him into turning his back on his agenda, or using it to help her, instead of using her to help it? Time will tell - he's eerily cold blooded about it all so its just knife point standing on its edge, waiting to see which way the blade will fall.

It was nice to see Claire deal with her brother .. persuading him over scaring him.. I think he's going to turn out be adopted from another set of powered parents, just like that little girls fate, someday. (I'm still so wating for her to show up at the Bennett house)

Hiro and Ando were so brief in this ep, and so much help ... we'll see where they end up next week.

( I really enjoyed their story in the week before, that angst and self doubt in Hiro, suddenly rising up .. and Ando talking him into continuing on, using all the comic book logic, but with a lot of meaning and thought behind it.. helping Hiro face the world again...... and I had NO TIME to write a word about it!!!)

Since my comments about the last ep have taken such a 'What's Wrong With Nathan the Shark' tone, there was one more I have to wonder about.

Peter practically holds him hostage at the 'brunch' table and then takes the fall on the mental health issue again, this time to bail Nathan out of mess he created by having an affair.. Nathan owes him big time and knows Peter intends to go to great lengths over this picture.

So what does he do? He persuades Linderman -again thru the 'My Brother Is a Nutcase' program he's been implementing so successfully to shut Peter up - gets the painting to be shipped back to the gallery .. and then he lies and tells Peter he cant get it. Why does he lie to Peter about it? Is he planning on getting on it back, and then holding it hostage, not letting Peter see it as part of a blackmail, till after the election? What? By shipping it directly to the gallery, wont Simone see it, isnt she the director/owner of the gallery, wont she let Peter know its back? She's a solidly good character with strong morals, its would take a lot for Nathan to twist her into hiding it from Peter.

(and frankly, if she sold the painting - wouldnt she have a photo for records? How does that work exactly, no record of what it looks like? I'm not a member of any art gallery, obviously, but surely insurance requires this type of thing. ...but, we put up with these kind of plot holes in the middle of a great story, as scapers well know, so we'll put a blind eye here again)

Oh - incidentally, Ben was asked at Scapercon about his favorite shows - being a football guy he named Friday Night Lights as his favorite (being a notfootball gal, cant say I'm ever going to go there) but then he started talking about Heroes as a really good show, and had so many good things to say about the director and how he's handled the story - glad to see the show that I've tentively labeled 'my next Farscape' resonates with a guy who did so well in the other show I loved so much. (did I just say Farscape was my first 'Farscape'? I think I did) Thought this was the right bboard to pass that tidbit on. (The part about Ben loving the way Heroes is done, that is.)

Okay - Isaac was right in line to be a new disciple to HRG till the drug trip - we'll see what that does to him next...

I loved HRG's self justification speech -I'm really a good guy, see, it's just that some people unreasonably object to being kidnapped and experimented upon, and I was forced to kill a woman (and maybe a few others I wont go into now) but I did get a cute bouncing baby girl out of it, so wont you work with me, please?

I imagine all the disciples were people whose lives were so messed up that being kidnapped and experimented on was the best thing they had happen to 'em - look somebody actually cares enough to kidnap me! Isaac was at the end of his rope, he'd torn his life apart trying to find an answer to how to stop the nuclear bomb - I'm sure all Evil Waif had to do was offer him drugs (or not) or just ask him to come with her and he'd have gone -not intentionally abandoning Peter and the quest, but he was having a difficult time with the drug cycle and not thinking clearly.

Then we see Evil Waif actually has the power to command people (like she needed it - she was already an Evil Waif! Redundant!) so she could have just told him, you're coming with me, and then Blink could make him forget about other obligations -if he even remembered out of his drug haze what they were.

It was interesting HRG said to Evil Waif "Do you even remember what you were?" bcs, odds are, with Blink about, that she doesnt. And maybe feels grateful about that.

Still HRG is managing his business well and is genuinely concerned about Claire, at least. Not to mention his experiments suffering in general from Sylar removing his prize subjects, but he does have some attachment for her beyond the 'subject I raised myself'.

I noticed he didnt renew next months parking pass, and the interior of his lab had a packed and ready to go look - I wonder if he's planning on relocating soon.

HRG is the face of evil but Sylar ... Sylar has no face!!
They showed us much closer than before - and its just not there!! That is soooooooo creepy. And I liked it That scene where he kills the waitress.. ugh
I'm not into horror - but to match the can-opening exactly.. ewwee - when she punched the hole in the can, she could feel in the back of her head, and looked around ... nothing there and then... ewweee!

Hope Hero manages to do something. Things for him look ...interesting next week. Ando is going to be the link man, it looks like, and Peter is going to be very very busy.

Meanwhile Mohinder -
Okay they flipped the cover on the book again! This was again waived in our face, bcs they knew that we knew that they knew we knew .. and Mohinder's smirk at the picture echoed our own.
And as predicted, we cant have an actor of that caliber on the book without seeing him somewhere, so at last we got the Mohinder and Father interactions, there was an actual fight, and we have a missing sister revealed. Perhaps the one that started 'Papa Suresh' on the quest to find other special people in the world.

To be honest, I havent figured out the kid's role at all. He appears in dreams and seems to knock people out almost to get them to appear in them with him, and he takes them on journeys to the past .. for what purpose or rhyme or reason? It looks cool? What? I need more than a file with a picture on it for this angle to really work. Hopefully they do more with it than just a 'and Thus Mohinder's Motivation is Reborn!' title bit and send him on his merry way.

Matt's finally getting answers, but Nuclear Man is escaped on the rampage - and what is with that evil Homeland Security woman (help me out, was she on Star Trek- she is so familiar but I cant remember what I saw her in) always screaming at somebody and ignoring the evidence right in front of her. FBI gal and he are off to play Nancy Drew and Hardy boys and track down the Haitian Man, aka Blink. Good luck with that, fellas.