I have spent hours reading the articles on this site, there is ALOT of great info..

09-08-2003 04:45 PM

Ronn Lucas

As long as the feathers from your friends Parrots are legal, captive birds, you would not have any trouble within the US. CITES governs the shipment into or out of a country. Documentation is key here. If you had a real aggressive agent of the fish & game department and he/she demanded documentation for pre ban materials, you could have trouble w/o the docs.

In the US, it is illegal to take birds from the wild other than a few upland gamebirds and some waterfowl. Sale of these feathers is ok as long as it is for flytying.

Awhile back, I had a talk with someone who worked in one of the game farms where they had among other things, some Owls and Hawks. I asked if the feathers would be available and the answer was something like this. They could NOT give or sell ANY feathers from domestic raptors but COULD give or sell feathers off their raptors from other countries. They have the required permits to have the birds from other countries so they can bring them in. You could NOT bring in feathers from the same birds.

The CITES stuff is very hard to pin down on certain things. Ivory for example is banned but if you have pre ban ivory it is fine (with documentation). Proving age is the key. Even legal ivory is banned from shipping between states to sell. It is fine to sell within the state. Walrus ivory is illegal unless it is pre ban OR if Eskimo natives have made it into craft items. Eskimos can also harvest a few Polar Bears and use the fur for craft items and sell them.

Some rare Pheasant breeds are legal to sell alive between states but certain ones are illegal if they are dead!

Generally I think you would be fine with the feathers you mentioned as long as you were not sending them into or out of the states.

Happy Trails!
Ronn
:eyecrazy: :eyecrazy: :eyecrazy:

08-21-2003 08:52 PM

flytyer

JD,

It depends on how they were taken care of and stored. I have 2 jungle cock necks that I acquired in 1971 when I purchased the last four that a sporting goods store had that are unused. I have used up one of the four and have been using the other one the last two years and the stems are not brittle. The blasted recipt for them is almost unreadable though. It seems that cash register tape ink doesn't hold up very well after 30 years.

08-21-2003 02:56 PM

JDJones

Would feathers aqquired from a bird prior to 1972 still be usable?
Wouldn't the stems be awfully brittle by now?

08-21-2003 01:52 PM

flytyer

Nevada Caster,

Heron is on the Threatened Species List, not the Endangeered Species List. They are protected under federal law and there is a $10,000.00 fine for the killing, possession, sale, or use of any part of the bird, including its feathers. The exceptions are if the feathers were acquired prior to July 1, 1972 (and you better be able to prove they were acquired before then), or the feathers were acquired from a bird raised in captivity (again you have to be able to prove that they were raised in captivity).

This is no different from hawks and eagles in the U.S., neither of which are on the Endangered Species List anymore since the Bald Eagle was changed from Endangered Status to Threatened Status 3 years ago. It is still illegal to kill, possess, sell, or use any part of an eagle or hawk unless you are a member of a federally recognized Indian Tribe or Alaskan Native Corportation in the U.S.

I wouldn't touch heron feathers unless I the person offering them had proof that they were either acquired prior to July 1, 1972, or that they were from birds raised in captivity. And he better give me a copy of this documentation too so that I am protected.

08-21-2003 09:14 AM

JDJones

One thing you can be sure of. If it were legal to own GBH feathers, someone would be marketing and selling them.

><///('>
JD

08-21-2003 12:52 AM

nevada caster

Great blue Heron

I am quite confident the the GBH is NOT on the endangered species list. CITES may not be an issue. it is on a special lsit that gives them more potection than other migratory birds. I believe that it is illegal to buy and sell their feathers, but I have never been able to get a straight answer form someone in a position to know, if it is illegal to own them.

08-19-2003 09:36 AM

Bee

Interesting but not surprising that some of you have alos seen the guy on e-bay selling blue heron...I asked him if he could provide, prior to any purchase, a certificate of authenticity asurance...I too felt uncofortable wit h his response and did not pursue the issue. Threrisk on the downside is just too great there...the rhea feathers are special if you have not used them.

08-19-2003 12:32 AM

Robert Meiser

Hey JD,

Just talked with Katie Davidson of Siskiyou Aviary.

She's been shiping feathers to fly tiers, mask makers, and many other feather artisans for nearly 15 years, and she will have the skinny on the legal ins and outs of marketing domestic feathers ...Number: 541-488-2835

I have known Katie for many years... Been boothing with her and Paul Miller/Super Spey for years at shows around the country.

She's a super gal, and very knowledgable on these matters as it is her business to import/export feathers world wide.

I get all of my rod inlay feathers from Katie.

Bob Meiser

08-16-2003 11:43 PM

flytyer

JD,

Exactly!! And this is why I keep telling people to use legal substitutes or to make sure they get the Certification of Domestically Raised bird or Certification that the feathers were acquired prior to 1972. The legal risks are not worth it to acquire the "real thing", and it is also poor conservation practice to tie flies with feathers from endangered or theatened species.

The great tyers of the 1800's (Kelso, Blacker, Francis, Maxwell, Hardy, Hale, etc.) freely substituted feathers in their tying and spoke of it in their books, why should we be any different than the old "masters" in our tying. Is a spey fly any less a spey fly because it uses blue-eared pheasant instead of heron? Of course not!

08-16-2003 10:55 AM

JDJones

Rea feathers

are being marketed as Super Spey Hackle by Siskiyou Aviary in Ashland. They are rather pricy at $10 for 6 feathers. but still, that's a lot cheaper that $10K for one! And jail time to boot.

><///('>
JD

08-15-2003 06:48 PM

papigomez

Hi Chirs,

My wife and I have a Aztec Dance Group in San Diego and we buy Macaw feathers for our group. If you or your friend are interested in selling your feathers, please let me know. I will be more than happy to buy all of them from you, if you give me a good deal.
Thanks
Luis Gomez

05-23-2003 12:52 AM

Steelheader69

Couldn't be MJC

That would be entrapment BIG time. Law suit against gov't too. You asked if needed a CITES, guy claims it's legal, and sells to you saying it's actually a legal bird. Now, I can see if guy never asks. But that would be crazy. We'll see. Gonna report him and see what happens.

05-22-2003 09:47 AM

MJC

Heron

Maybe the guy selling this heron is a Federal Wildlife Agent.

05-22-2003 02:27 AM

Steelheader69

Thanks

That's what I thought. Actually, he's online, I have corresponded through email about it. I wanted to make sure before I bought any.

I've tried the BEP, I like it. But I could get this for about same price as the BEP I have, so wanted to try if legal. Will throw that at him and see. lol

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