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I have had conversatioms with people who support Obama. I try to appeal to them with logic. Many (if not all) can’t defemd their position with logic, so they retreat to emotional arguments. How do I know this? Because their discourse is laced with crude and fouur-letter words.Obama calling Romney a Bull******* (CofC) is an indication that his record is indefensible and he is becoming desparate.

I am an Obama supporter (ducking to dodge the rotten eggs!). I agree that resorting to playground insults (and name-calling) means that you have lost the debate. But do you honestly believe that such tactics are limited to the left? I have seen plenty of that right here on richochet! Lenny here are some facts to chew on:

1. Osama bin Lade is dead. Romney said it wasn’t worth moving heaven and earth to get him.

2. George W. Bush and the Republicans presided over the worst economic collapse since the great depression. George W supported the first stimulus package.

3. Government spending and the debt are serious problems, but they are not the cause for the slow recovery, which has primarily been a function of a world wide slowdow and a huge housing crash.

4. The unemployment rate is the lower than when Obama took office (although admittedly still way too high).

5. Barack and Obama are Americans, born in the USA! (I know this is a hard one for you birthers.)

Welcome Pig Man — You have to pay to make comments so I admire your willingness to put yourself out there. You are correct that people on both ends of the political spectrum engage in shameful behavior and it saddens me. We here at Ricochet hope to change that one comment at a time.

Even in Obama’s “historic” victory in 2008 there was only 64% of registered voters actually voting, so any poll that says that 85% or more of registered voters are likely to vote is making completely unreasonable assumptions, and shouldn’t be trusted.

Pig man, welcome I guess. Thanks for the money. Your 5 point plan is simplistic in the extreme, and must be a feint. You could be a bot, but talking points never describe true voter behavior. Neither do they best describe a presidential record. You might as well insist for us all to “Have a Coke and a Smile.” Sloganeering won’t get you very far here. Unless you concern troll a Romney loss, posing as a right-winger. 😉

Hey you guys are alright, I actually feel welcome as a foil and nobody called me something obscene. And I do agree my points were simplistic and incomplete, I was just throwing them out for a reaction. But they weren’t just slogans, they were statements of fact, please provide evidence otherwise. And tell me this, do you guys really think the odds are with Romney for win? If so I invite to place a bet on intrade, I’ve got got some Romney stock I’d love to short? Ohio is the key and Romney has not been able to break through on the polls. Do you think the Ohio polls are liberal biased? Do you think Romney’s momentum will carry him through the next 10 days. Get real, Romney is the underdog here. He could still win, but that would mean he can gets some movement or the polls are garbage. I don’t think those are good odds.

“Hey you guys are alright, I actually feel welcome as a foil and nobody called me something obscene.”

Which is more than what anyone can say for the president’s behavior towards Mitt Romney. And hey, anyone remember just how up in arms the Left got when Dick Cheney called Adam Clymer a major league something-or-other and told Pat Leahy to go perform anatomical impossibilities on himself? The silence from those same people when Barack Obama resorts to name-calling is deafening.

Pig Man,I agree that Bush had a lot of unfortunate policies but, as I pointed out elsewhere in Ricochet, Obama has doubled-down on all of them. He has outspent, out-inflated, out-stimulated, out-regulated, and out-golfed W. It’s ironic that one of Obama’s big applause lines is asking whether we want to go back to the failed policies of the past. We’ve never left them!

Pejman Yousefzadeh: “Hey you guys are alright, I actually feel welcome as a foil and nobody called me something obscene.”

Which is more than what anyone can say for the president’s behavior towards Mitt Romney. And hey, anyone remember just how up in arms the Left got when Dick Cheney called Adam Clymer a major league something-or-other and told Pat Leahy to go perform anatomical impossibilities on himself? The silence from those same people when Barack Obama resorts to name-calling is deafening. · 15 hours ago

It was Bush to Cheney , commenting on Clymer. Yay George. Although Cheney did serve it nicely to Leahy.

Pig Man: I am an Obama supporter (ducking to dodge the rotten eggs!). I agree that resorting to playground insults (and name-calling) means that you have lost the debate. But do you honestly believe that such tactics are limited to the left? I have seen plenty of that right here on richochet! Lenny here are some facts to chew on:

1. Osama bin Lade is dead. Romney said it wasn’t worth moving heaven and earth to get him.

Have you read the interview? Romney was arguing for a bigger and more comprehensive war on terror, not for less. You can find a transcript here. The suggestion that because he wanted “a far more comprehensive strategy than a targeted approach for bin laden or a few of his associates” means that he wouldn’t have given the go ahead on Bin Laden is absurd. Indeed, I’d be surprised if many people really thought that Obama was more of a hawk; it seems more like gotcha gaffe material than a substantive point.

….I agree that resorting to playground insults means that you have lost the debate…..

2. George W. Bush and the Republicans presided over the worst economic collapse since the great depression. George W supported the first stimulus package.

Bush 43 was highly concerned to support Obama in everything when he handed over power; there was a crisis, and it would have been easy to have problems with the handover. He’s since remained keen to avoid getting in Obama’s way and becoming a Republican Jimmy Carter. Do people wish he’d been a bit more partisan? Maybe, but I think most folks could understand his exhaustion and his prioritizing of a smooth transition.

I don’t think “and the Republicans” is accurate; the recession lasted from Q2 2007- Q2 2009, when Congress was controlled by Democrats.

4. The unemployment rate is the lower than when Obama took office (although admittedly still way too high).

The long term unemployment rate is higher than it has been since records began (given the lack of a safety net before records, it may be higher than in North American history). The unemployment rate is down only because people have left the workforce. The proportion of Americans in work is dramatically reduced since the recession ended.

3. Government spending and the debt are serious problems, but they are not the cause for the slow recovery, which has primarily been a function of a world wide slowdow and a huge housing crash.

There’s a world wide slowdown? You’ll forgive me, but I spent much of the recession in Iraq, where no such slowdown was obvious. The EU and US are suffering a slowdown, and that has a big effect on the global rate of growth, but even including that, the global rate of GDP growth is estimated by the IMF to have been higher last year than the average for 1990-2003.

If you want to say that the slowdown hit the EU, as well as the US, you’d be right. If you want to claim that this demonstrated that it wasn’t a big government, big debt problem, I’ll have to introduce you to the European debt crisis and its causes.

Welcome to Ricochet, btw. Sorry about the responses being out of order. I’d be happy to go into more detail on any issues presented.

Pig Man: And tell me this, do you guys really think the odds are with Romney for win? If so I invite to place a bet on intrade, I’ve got got some Romney stock I’d love to short? · October 26, 2012 at 10:22pm

Way ahead of you, Pig Man. I shorted Obama futures at $7.80 on Intrade weeks ago. I could’ve covered under $6.00 already and made a tidy profit, but I decided I’d stay on to see if the trade settles at zero. I assume you know what selling short and settling a short trade at zero means.

I guess you won’t be wishing me luck, but a very nice vacation for my family will be paid for if I’m right.

Pejman Yousefzadeh: “Hey you guys are alright, I actually feel welcome as a foil and nobody called me something obscene.”

Which is more than what anyone can say for the president’s behavior towards Mitt Romney. And hey, anyone remember just how up in arms the Left got when Dick Cheney called Adam Clymer a major league something-or-other and told Pat Leahy to go perform anatomical impossibilities on himself? The silence from those same people when Barack Obama resorts to name-calling is deafening. · 15 hours ago

It was Bush to Cheney , commenting on Clymer. Yay George. Although Cheney did serve it nicely to Leahy. · 19 hours ago

“1. Osama bin Lade is dead.” This would have been a slam dunk for any President anywhere. W built the weapon Obama used to take him out. Really though its a bit crass for Obama to be spiking the football here. Dedicated operators, analysts, and soldiers brought this one home.

2.

Sub prime collapse was at least the fault of both parties, with plenty of blame to swath Barney Frank and co with. Say what you want about TARP, but it may pay itself off over time. None of Obama’s stimuli hope to do do that: they are red red losses.

3.

Obama ignored growth policy in favor of Obamacare. Nickle & diming small business with taxes and regulations keeping them in neutral. USA can (and should) lead the rest of the world out of the global slowdown. The man can’t describe how jobs are created, doesn’t get it. Smarter people here than me best articulate this: Jim Pethokoukis, among many others.

4. Obama hides the unemployed with a shell game of deception. If the US labor population was the same today as in 2008, U3 would be 10+%

Pig Man: I am an Obama supporter (ducking to dodge the rotten eggs!). I agree that resorting to playground insults (and name-calling) means that you have lost the debate. But do you honestly believe that such tactics are limited to the left? I have seen plenty of that right here on richochet! Lenny here are some facts to chew on:

1. Osama bin Lade is dead. Romney said it wasn’t worth moving heaven and earth to get him.

2. George W. Bush and the Republicans presided over the worst economic collapse since the great depression. George W supported the first stimulus package.

3. Government spending and the debt are serious problems, but they are not the cause for the slow recovery, which has primarily been a function of a world wide slowdow and a huge housing crash.

4. The unemployment rate is the lower than when Obama took office (although admittedly still way too high).

5. Barack and Obama are Americans, born in the USA! (I know this is a hard on) · 21 hours ago

Romney plays the ball and not the player as he says it is just not worth it to him to be political.

Pig Man: 5. Barack and Obama are Americans, born in the USA! (I know this is a hard one for you birthers.) · October 26, 2012 at 2:58pm

Unbelievable how some people can be so fooled by all the Leftist rubbish!

Obama is not an proper American as far as I am concerned. He was born on the periphery in Hawaii, and brought up in Indonesia by his agitator mother, with visits to his Marxist father in Kenya, never mind all the other influences he has experienced. That is not a “normal” American upbringing.

Pig Man:5. Barack and Obama are Americans, born in the USA! (I know this is a hard one for you birthers.) · October 26, 2012 at 2:58pm

Unbelievable how some people can be so fooled by all the Leftist rubbish!

Obama is not an proper American as far as I am concerned. He was born on the periphery in Hawaii, and brought up in Indonesia by his agitator mother, with visits to his Marxist father in Kenya, never mind all the other influences he has experienced. That is not a “normal” American upbringing. · 1 hour ago

He remains a natural born American citizen, and can hold the office of President legally (for a little while anyway…)