I also require proof

The Disciples were skeptics themselves, who demanded proof, only believing when tongues of fire landed on their heads. Why doesn’t God do that to everyone? Why is it now a sin to insist on proof before belief? Even Abraham asked for evidence and again God obliged. I’m pretty sure anyone who has a tongue of fire land on their head is going to be a believer. If God really wanted us all to go to heaven, it would take very little effort to make it happen.

11 Responses to “I also require proof”

Well you really seem to miss the point of the disciples needing proof. They did not demand proof, The only disciple to demand it was thomas, and when he recieved it he fell down and wept in shame of disbelief, So just for the record. YOU dont demand things of God.David

I Cor. 14:22 – ‘Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.’ Why are the only ‘signs’ God provides these days ones that only Christians appear to be able to recognize. To me it looks like an oil slick on a pane of glass, to the believer, it is the mother of God. Why is God only concerned about proving himself to those that ALREADY believe?

I also wonder sometimes about the signs in the Bible. I do, however, believe in God, but it’s very questionable why He doesn’t reveal himself as explicitly as He did in the bible. That fact seems to be the most valid argument agaisnt His existence.
Also, anybody who says it is a sin to doubt doesn’t truly believe (in my opnion). Doubt is part of understanding. For any belief, religious or not, not doubting or questioning it means that you are only a product of influence, not an individual.

I know that in another post you say that Faith is an unacceptable answer, but the for the majority of people who believe in anything, faith in the biggest reason. I’m not trying to tell you to accept what you don’t feel is right, but I just wanted to offer an explanation, at least for myself. I don’t believe in God for purely scientific reasons, although there are some I do agree with, I believe because it is my gut, I cannot know, I have faith. Everything in this world is based on faith, human beings cannot know anything for sure. Everything that we have proclaimed as fact is only fact within our perception of life, who’s to say our perception of life is right?

(This a very thought provoking blog. It puts the irony of Christianity in our faces. Thanks for it.)

You have been given many signs doubtingthomas. The whole fact that your making this sight is showing that your going against the same signs God wants to show you. You cannot possibly accept signs shown to you if you ignore them. Your quotation of scripture to fit your context is a total injustice to the scriptures. The signs are all around you in creation. Charles Darwin said the eye cannot be explained through evolution, so that leaves us to the next question how could a complex universe that fits a certain order come out of nothing? God reveals himself in creation, He reveals himself in people, whether its through this blog, or Christians that you converse with daily, Hes revealing himself to you.

Charles Darwin says the eye is so complex that it seems to require a designer, but he then uses the next chapter of The Origin of Species to refute that same statement. You chastise for taking the Bible out of context and then quote mine yourself brooksrobinson.

And I don’t think the existence of Christians counts as a proof of the Christian god anymore than the existence of children believing in Santa as existence for Santa himself.

Evolution cannot explain the eye.
“And I don’t think the existence of Christians counts as a proof of the Christian god” That is not what I’m saying. I find many agnostics and atheists that say, I prayed to God to reveal himself to me, and I got nothing. What I’m merely saying is God can use whatever means available which includes Christians.

Darwin does use the eye to show that there is no God, however he also makes a faulty premise about it. If i am not mistaken(and correct me if I am) he says that the eye is not efficient enough because the retina is upside down, and exposed directly to the sunlight along with a couple other premises. BUT I would like to point out that if you look at the whole eye then you see that its functionality is the best that it could be given the circumstances. Its kind of like a laptop. I can look at my laptop and say well this screen should be bigger, and this should hold more memory. But if the screen is made bigger then it reduces how portable the laptop is, and with the increased memory the price that I pay for the laptop goes up, it’s just being made as efficient as it can be given what it is in. I hope that helped. !)avid

Darwin believed in a god! By the end of his life he was slightly more agnostic and maybe he didn’t believe in the same God that he was brought up to believe in, but he was still a believer.

Using your analogy the approptiate comparison would be: imagine if the image was saved upside down on your hard-drive and your processor had to invert every image it created. Also imagine if you had to drain waste energy out of your computer several times a day, and you could only use your computer for 16 hours a day since it needed to be off for about 8 hours. Also imagine that the computer has superfluous parts that could potentially explode and kill your computer.

And when you refer to the price of the laptop, are you implying that your infinite (a concept the human mind can hardly understand) God can’t “pay” for a better human body? Isn’t he unlimited in his abilities?

“He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’” Luke 16:31

I do not believe that even proof would change the hearts of most – look at those in Jesus’ time, who simply could not believe He was who He claimed Himself to be… The bottom line is, man’s eyes are blind until the Holy Spirit opens them, there is no sufficient amount of evidence to compel someone to believe in God.

I’m constantly surprised by how many of the ‘faithful’ believe that if the Christian God appeared or made some grand (non vague) display of his powers, that few would do anything but shrug and go about their day. Especially considering how often these same people love to hype how most of humanity is of the Christian religion (not true, never has been, and, sorry, never will be). This seems to be a result of religionist being forced to confront the fact that God was so ‘present’ and active in the pages of the bible but for the past few thousand years has been an absentee god.

We can agree, however, that “there is no sufficient amount of evidence to compel someone to believe in God.” So very true. As long as faith is only supported by theory, and truth is only supported by fact, this will continue to be the case. We can only be encouraged by the fact that, as we learn more of our world and the history of our world, the more difficult it becomes for people who base their beliefs on theories that have been shown to be false to continue their misguided ways.