Does poaching exist

Yes!

No!

You're talking about eggs right? Delicious on toast!

Poaching is a dirty word in banding, but does it actually exist? Being approached by another band and being asked to play for them is deemed as ‘poaching’, however inevitably it is down to the decision of the player in question. I believe the mantra “you can’t poach a happy player” is a good one.

Barring being drugged/coerced/blackmailed, if a player leaves to head to a higher section/ better band/ different band for whatever reason, then surely as banders we should wish them well and congratulate them on improving and aiming higher/going for a change. Perhaps there will be anecdotal examples where ‘poaching’ can be proved. However overall I think that it doesn’t really exist. We could perhaps say that abandonment exists whereby a player chooses to leave a band, and the band feels disgruntled about this: perhaps the band has invested a lot of time/effort in the player and had hoped to reap the rewards of bringing a player up.

Given that banding is decreasing in popularity, I think positive encouragement and keeping players happy is a better way forward than grumbling and stigmatising players who for the most part, probably look to improve themselves by moving around bands. Of course there are many other reasons why players move, but as I said above, it is more than likely for legitimate reasons.

However you look at it, it still falls to the player in question and not to the band which has approached them, as to where they choose to play.

So does poaching exist? Or is this a knee-jerk reaction from bands which have lost players to ‘poaching’ and are feeling that their egos are bruised?

I think it happens but not as much as many might like to think. Poaching really implies an unfairness about things. I think as Carolyn mentioned most instances are really fair play.

However, I think guilting somebody into switching groups would be considered poaching, and I don't have much respect for bands that "put people in the middle." Simply offer the opportunity and let them make their own decision.

My own opinion is that as long as no rules are broken, then we're all equally free to play for whoever we want to - assuming they'll have us.

There are any number of reasons a player may leave a band, some of which are difficult to take for the players left behind (financial inducement is always a controversial one) and band spirit is a fragile thing, so any departure - however amicable - is always going to leave some residue.

But poaching? No. Nobody ever left a band who didn't want to, and time will always tell if they were right to do so.

I've said it before on here (and I'll probably say it again!) - except in rare cases with an extremely small minority of bands who can afford to offer financial incentives, there's no such thing as poaching.

Asking a regular dep if they'd be interested in joining is NOT poaching.
Making a player aware you'd like them to apply for a vacancy is NOT poaching.
Accepting applications to join from players who take it on themselves to approach your band is NOT poaching.
Asking an unattached player to register to help out at a contest is NOT poaching.
...and yet I've been in bands that were accused of "poaching" in all the above cases.

If a player chooses to leave one band and join another without being coerced by financial gain or forced in some other way, then they haven't been poached they've simply exercised a choice to move on. When that happens, perhaps the original bands would benefit from spending less time crying foul and more time looking at why people are unhappy or uncommitted enough to walk away.

Just as an aside, I recall that in 1964/5 (ish) Lindley Band from Huddersfield came 2nd at the British Open and also qualified for thr National Finals at the RAH.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that within a year they had lost over half the band to Dyke and B&R.

I'm not saying they were "Poached", as I agree that an individual can play for whoever they like, but you can imagine the devastating effect this had on Lindley Band at the time.

I suppose it is a natural process that aspiring young players will mostly reach a stage in their musical development when they want to test their improving technique at the highest level.
So sad for the bands that nurtured and trained them and inspired their musical ambitions, but it is an inevitable progression.

Many years ago, I was invited to join a championship section band whilst playing in the 4th section. When I accepted the invitation, the MD of the 4th section band claimed that I had been poached. Furthermore, he said, "you will not be happy playing with them!" I was very happy, and did not consider that I had been poached.

Andi, I'm with you on this one - I just have memories of being blasted last time this 'conversation' came up for not conceding that very, very occasionally poaching might be possible and wanted to avoid the same reaction this time around!! Financial is the obvious exception for me, and in the past I've heard people blame coercion through jobs (which I guess boils down to financial anyway) or family/socail ties but I can honestly say that in 30 years of banding I have never known it to happen.

The bottom line for me is very simple - happy players don't change bands.
If a player is unhappy enough to leave then that suggests to me that either they're looking for something their current band can't offer, or the band has a problem. Blaming anyone else for "poaching" is wrong and achieves absolutely nothing imho.

That said though, it completely p*sses me off when bands repeatedly go after players and don't take no for an answer, or ask players to move just before a big gig or contest... its not poaching, but it is more than a little inconsiderate!

People will play for whatever band they want to play with, within the rules about transfers and new registrations. Everything else is just griping because your own band wasn't enough to fulfill the needs of the player who leaves to join another band. I don't know a single person who has been FORCED to join another band

People only join other bands when their needs are not being met by the band they are in...whatever those needs are (not always to do with playing either).

Accusing bands of poaching players, I think, is pathetic, and doesn't address why your band wasn't enough to keep players. Putting the blame on the leaving player, and the other band...and taking no responsibilty for how your band isn't doing enough to keep players.

Of course there are occasionally players who play the system, but those are the players who are not particularly interested in being in one band forever and ever...and are happy to chop and change. Fair play to them if that's what they want...but it still isn't a case of poaching...more like a kind of detachment from every band they're in, or not being able to find the 'right' band (whatever that is).

Perhaps there will be anecdotal examples where ‘poaching’ can be proved. However overall I think that it doesn’t really exist. <snip>
So does poaching exist? Or is this a knee-jerk reaction from bands which have lost players to ‘poaching’ and are feeling that their egos are bruised?

Interestingly the Football Association, often derided for it's backward thinking has (as I recall) pretty strong rules against poaching of players - a few years ago didnt the Leeds Chairman Ken Bates threaten to sue his former club Chelsea over alleged illegal approaches to young Academy players? - I think it was settled out of court. Arsenal have also been similarly accused.

I believe the mantra “you can’t poach a happy player” is a good one. /QUOTE]

Enough said as far as I am concerned, players are free to move from one band to another because unlike football, none of us are contracted to any particular band.

Players will move bands for all sorts of reasons - playing for a better band, distance, cost, ambition, change of job, moving home etc but no one ever moved because they didn't want to.

Perhaps we should consider a 'Transfer Window' as in football, that way players won't be able to switch allegiance just before the Areas leaving their previous band with a hole that they are unalbe to fill due to time restraints. Even that will cause problems with players leaving on the last day of the transfer window and financial incentives may well then be used.

All bands have been victims of 'Poaching' or guilty of 'Poaching' over the years and I am sure that it all evens itself out in the fullness of time!

If talking to player who is at another band and saying "my band is better/more fun/going places/your band is dying, etc why not come and join us" is poaching then I have been both a poacher and a poachee.

And if Cory/Dyke/Grimethorpe, etc want to poach me please send me a pm.