Very true, sum.I don't think, by and large, Western people are as much divided as all that - or at least far from into equal parts. What we have are a small number of people who see Islam for what it is, a small but larger group of leftists and Soros's suckers who also know the truth and conceal it for their own ends. Then there is a larger group, particularly young people, who have had the wool pulled over their eyes by the second group and finally a much larger group who know virtually nothing, whose instincts tell them that something is wrong but who are cowed by political "correctness".

I'd hesitate to put figures on it, but with the scales removed from their eyes a vast majority would be against Islam, I'm sure. No wonder SAM and ISLAM_undermines can't stand criticism.

'It's a choice between the MONSTERS and the MANIACS'Dr Julian Lewis M.P. (Chair, UK Defense Committee) on the conflict in Syria

Looking a bit more closely, a rather different picture emerges than the press tries to present. In reality there has not even been a "Muslim ban" at all. His actual order is about travel restrictions from countries with significant security risk, and the list, strangely, is one that has been produced by the Obama administration. In fact Obama did something quite similar not too long ago, if I remember right. In 2013, there was a visa restriction for Iraq, in 2015, another one for a list of countries, and in 2016 again. It seems, when Obama did it, it was fine, but not when Trump does it.

And the judgement about not returning people with valid visas who have just arrived, if anything, is about the point I made, it is bad law to try to make retroactive rules, but not about Trump's order as a whole.

So, the question does arise... why did our Labour leadership not hysterically demand a ban of Obama to come to the UK when he did much the same as Trump has just done...

A ban of Trump coming to the UK may be quite a foolish thing to do as in our current situation we really need to get a trade deal with the US. Upsetting Trump will not stop him doing what he spelled out to do in his campaign, but it may mean he leaves us hanging without a deal. It will be gesture politics, a "virtue signal", no more, and it will change nothing at all, but it will damage British interests.

If the Queen managed to receive people like Ceaușescu or Idi Amin and many others, I am sure she will not be lost for words with Trump.

In fact, usually those perceived as friends have more influence on people than those who are hostile.

In reality all the hysteria about this ban seems a little hypocritical, given that Obama did something similar, and so did Carter in the 80s.

I tend to agree with sum thesis, with need to discuss Islam in the open, and strip it naked as what it is - a cult dominated by dogma and barbarism.

As for Trump's ban on select Islamic countries. Funny, WP found that, the six countries involved - none of them Trump has business interest. Those like Saudi Arabia & UAE where Trump does have interested - none is included in the list. That exactly the "Emolument Clause" in US constitution was designed to prevent.

Trump is as stupid as they come. With his virulent anti-Islamic stand, he just opened himself to terror attack against property around the world with name "Trump" on them - even those innocent property owners whom merely license his name will face terror attack.

ISIS already is preparing to "visit" some of these properties with their brand of "courtesy call".

Interesting... when Pope Pius XII thought on the lines you mention and mostly appeased the Nazis, history did not treat him kindly for that. Now it seems, if you do the opposite and tackle a similar ideology head on, you also get criticised for that.

I am starting it is not about WHAT was does but only about WHO did it.

Hombre wrote:As for Trump's ban on select Islamic countries. Funny, WP found that, the six countries involved - none of them Trump has business interest.

All of them, however, were selected by Obama - was he in Trump's pocket all along? Numerous sites have pointed out that the list was drawn up by Obama to deny visa-free travel from those countries. One source points out that Trump didn't even list the countries, just linked his ban to Obama's regulation.

Meanwhile, I've heard the TV news (can't say where or when, it was very late) mentioning officials zealously enforcing the ban. The media, of course, are having a field day and the petitions are going through the roof. I don't go near Facebook or the Twits, but I imagine they're in meltdown. As for rent-a-mob - just glad I'm not in the States at the moment.

How do people feel about the cock-up theory of history? Would things have been different if Trump had done it more smoothly and competently, or were the mobs just waiting for an excuse? Or the conspiracy theory: are the leftists just using Muslims as an excuse? Or, even, are the Islamists just using the leftists for fools?

'It's a choice between the MONSTERS and the MANIACS'Dr Julian Lewis M.P. (Chair, UK Defense Committee) on the conflict in Syria

Oh, in the general hysteria over this "Muslim ban" and what not, you really need to look hard to find a mention of one other rather interesting detail.... He actually managed to the SAUDIS to create safe zones for people from Syria and Yemen. Why is this virtually swept under the carpet by the media?

Trump is a bad news. Now we are reading, he bullied the PM of Australia, and threatened to send US army to Mexico to take out the bad guys (Drug dealers).

This man is fu....ked up. A rebel with a cause and without a clue. Like a drunken Bull in china shop. This little boy is all puff - and no tough. I have seen tough people like the late, Ariel Sharon, Moshe Dayan, Sen. John McCain. These people saw death in the eye. Not this Lilly white prep boy. He is a joke, whom will melt like a batter in any face-to-face confrontation with any determined adversary.

Trump never felt any pain, sorrow, defeat - nor had to bear any responsibilities to his actions. Rather have someone else fix it for him.

Notwithstanding. No "mad dog" can make a move w/o his boss's expressed permission, or direction. Moreover, at the end of the day - the buck stops at the President's desk and ultimate responsibilities rest on his / her shoulder.

Since Trump is our "so-called President"- in that case you may be correct. In cases of success - true to his cowered style, he will take all the credits for himself, and blame his subordinates for failures.

Trust me, this man is obsessed with his own image, and little or no substance. He ain't no tough - nor he has any clue of what the hell he is doing. He is becoming the joke of, not only Americans - but the rest of the world.

Trump should immediately implement his wall building program. Ask for his supporters in border states to volunteer for the project.Raise money by donations. No US law is broken.Whole issue of who pays is solved.

He has right to deport all illegal aliens who don't have any pass port or permitor expired documents.This was done by all previous governments on selective basis for tourists and foreign students.. No one can stop him if he deports Mexican and other illegals by gun point.Here also he can get support from border state citizens who are affected by illegals.

Then go after people with work permit. Cancel all work permits and deport them in 30 days. It's all legal. Fight out in courts if there is need.

He should plug biggest source of legal immigration which is sponsorship of father, Mother, Brother sisters adopted members etc.of US citizens. US can reject all applications on file on ground that US can't afford it.No promise was made and US is not liable for the hardship.Very few countries have this provision. Canada doesn't have it.

Hombre wrote:Trump is a bad news. Now we are reading, he bullied the PM of Australia, and threatened to send US army to Mexico to take out the bad guys (Drug dealers).

This man is fu....ked up. A rebel with a cause and without a clue. Like a drunken Bull in china shop. This little boy is all puff - and no tough. I have seen tough people like the late, Ariel Sharon, Moshe Dayan, Sen. John McCain. These people saw death in the eye. Not this Lilly white prep boy. He is a joke, whom will melt like a batter in any face-to-face confrontation with any determined adversary.

Trump never felt any pain, sorrow, defeat - nor had to bear any responsibilities to his actions. Rather have someone else fix it for him.

His brother died of a drug overdose and he is virulently anti-drug... he's never take a drug.

Hombre you really know nothing about him, but anti-islam light folks like you make a lot of excuses for the damage Obama did to this country.. We put up with eight years of him shi....tting on isreal and on saying violent islam didn't happen when it did. The media covered it up and softballed everthing for Obama, and they tried to do it for hillary... and all they do is hide information and let people like you bash Trump.

idesigner1 wrote:Trump should immediately implement his wall building program. Ask for his supporters in border states to volunteer for the project.Raise money by donations. No US law is broken.Whole issue of who pays is solved.

He has right to deport all illegal aliens who don't have any pass port or permitor expired documents.This was done by all previous governments on selective basis for tourists and foreign students.. No one can stop him if he deports Mexican and other illegals by gun point.Here also he can get support from border state citizens who are affected by illegals.

Then go after people with work permit. Cancel all work permits and deport them in 30 days. It's all legal. Fight out in courts if there is need.

He should plug biggest source of legal immigration which is sponsorship of father, Mother, Brother sisters adopted members etc.of US citizens. US can reject all applications on file on ground that US can't afford it.No promise was made and US is not liable for the hardship.Very few countries have this provision. Canada doesn't have it.

Yes idesigner1,you did indeed say in the past in the old forum that much of the land in Latino countries is owned by whites due to their conquest and colonialism and that the mixed offspring of whites and blacks goes to the forests,hits the native tribes and clears the forest and appropriates the land.So those Latino countries need to be treated the same way.If you do not respect the rights of your citizens we too needn't respect yours that is what you seem to have said.

In India,during the British and immediate post independence era , Brahmins appropriated most jobs by means of nepotism, it seems.That is what Chanakya of the old forum suggested and that is in sync with what I too have heard.As a result , a backlash by those of the lower castes resulted in reservations by as much as 75% to 80% in most Southern states(not in the Northern ones).Perhaps that was because most people of the lower class in South look a lot like their upper caste people due to the South being mostly free from Aryan and Muslim invasions.Perhaps that gave rise to a condescending attitude towards reservations by upper caste people in the South.It could also be due to the fact that during British rule many South Indian Shudras got educated and understood the shenanigans of the Brahmins who mostly from the North.For examples prior to British rule,only Brahmins were allowed to read and write while others were banned from the same.

As a result of reservations the meritorious emerged even from the lower castes thus proving that caste does not define merit and and they too took an active part in the software development in India.

Post Mandal, reservations came into being even in North however they were capped at 50% by the upper caste dominated North Indian elite of the Supreme Court.So how could it be that you take the same treatment attitude towards the colored people of the subcontinent as you took in case of the Latino countries?Haven't the natives of the subcontinent been treated more or less fairly?Then why is it that you want to cut down the jobs outsourced to the subcontinent and send the immigrants back to their native countries by cancelling work permits?

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:38 am, edited 6 times in total.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

Perhaps deep down within yourself , you too are a white man with racist leanings.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

There is something quite interesting I stumbled on today. In almost all English speaking Caribbean countries homosexuality is a criminal offence. In Trinidad & Tobago it carries a prison term of 85 years to life for adults. There is also an immigration ban for gays, including tourists, and they are not welcome to travel there and gay people who do travel anyway, if discovered to be gay, get sent to prison for a minimum term of 85 years. This also applies to a gay couple who may be considered married or in a civil partnership in other countries. This was an amendment passed to the 19th century act as recently as 2000.

Somehow this "gay ban" on the doorstep of the US never raised any eyebrows nor caused any demonstration there. It is not a temporary thing like Trump's "Muslim ban", it has been on place for 180 years.

So where are all the virtue signalling actors? Where are the US judges calling for this to be reviewed in an international court for human rights? Where the the protesting diplomats and politicians?

Surely when we see utter silence on one issue and screaming hysteria on another we are permitted to ask if perhaps there are other motives at play?