Wait for the main act, Mr Raman

B Raman (at his blog) laments on how a once-great newspaper has been reduced to being Beijing’s mouthpiece: its reports on the recent protests rely on the Xinhua version of events. (linkthanks Atanu Dey)

But the worst is yet to come. N Ram can’t lose this opportunity to bring the editorial daggers out for the Dalai Lama. He’s done it before at times when Beijing had far less at stake.

17 thoughts on “Wait for the main act, Mr Raman”

Nitin, given the strong anti-Dalai Llama signals from Beijing, there is a great likelihood that commies will put pressure on the lame-duck UPA government to humiliate him. They would ideally like him to be expelled out of India, but given that is not easy to accomplish, they’d try and do what they did to Taslima Nasrin. The Hindu can be expected to play its assigned role in this dirty game.

The western countries have not recognized Tibet and will not recognize Tibet – we all know that. It’s time for everyone to move on. More importantly, my question is – Has the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan refugees overstayed their welcome in India? My opinion is yes they have – if you want proof, pls travel to Dharamsala or McLeodganj. You don’t feel like you’re in India. Nehru gave the Dalai Lama refugee status on the condition that he does not use India as a platform to campaign for a separate state.

Can we ask the Richard Geres of the world to petition their Government to give the Dalai Lama a refugee status in the US. I don’t see that happening in my lifetime – essentially what you hear from the US and the western media is just noise – nobody will do anything. So, the question is – why should we care? Shouldn’t we rather build up goodwill by China and foster Indo-China trade?

I see what Janus Man is saying: that for fostering Indo-China trade, Indians should turn out someone who has sought refuge in India. Yes, all that nonsense about the guest being akin to a god visiting (“atithi devo bhavo”) is a lot of nonsense anyway. Who needs high-sounding principles when what we chiefly need is cheap manufactured stuff

If India can appease China, perhaps China will eat parts of India last.

>>The western countries have not recognized Tibet and will not recognize Tibet

So?

>>Has the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan refugees overstayed their welcome in India?

Those Indian communists who are pro-China and anti-India sure do think so, but there is no reason to believe that Indians endorse this view. The bigger question is, should Indians heed to the views of Marxist fundamentalists, since they poll less than 7% vote, are anti-democratic and follow a genocidal ideology anyway?

>>Nehru gave the Dalai Lama refugee status on the condition that he does not use India as a platform to campaign for a separate state.

I doubt this. Post the exact terms of refuge as spelled out to Dalai Llama, if you have them.

First off, Dalai Llama’s presence in India is not Nehru’s grace. Nehru and his government only bowed to a popular Indian desire.

Second, the Llama set up a “government in exile” in India — one would have to be cuckoo to suppose that he’s set up a Tibetan government subservient to China. If India granted him refuge on the condition that he should not campaign for an independent Tibet, it would not have allowed him to call his organization a government either.

>>pls travel to Dharamsala or McLeodganj. You don’t feel like you’re in India

Your problem, you know. India is a very diverse country. I feel alien too in some parts of India, but we have to overcome that feeling. At any rate, culturally and historically, India has strong ties with Tibet and Tibetan buddhism so it’s strange that you should have panicked in McLeodgunj.

>>So, the question is – why should we care?

For the same reason that we should care about a person who has been assaulted, mugged and left injured on the roadside. Only, in this case, the victim happens to be a friend of ours, and the mugger no well-wisher.

>>Shouldn’t we rather build up goodwill by China and foster Indo-China trade?

We should, but this is not either-or. Goodwill is a two-way street. China doesn’t think its arming of Pakistan should deter us from being friends with it, right. Neither should China place conditions on us to seek stronger relationship with it.

pls travel to Dharamsala or McLeodganj. You don’t feel like you’re in India

I think you need to travel, my friend. There are so many places in India where you don’t feel like you’re in India.

Now, for the fact: the Dalai Lama is not campaigning for a separate state. So he’s not violating any promise he made Nehru. And by the way, that promise can’t be said to be in the nature of an inviolable treaty or contract. The only grounds you could say that the promise holds, are moral. And if you are arguing a moral position, you can’t also argue that the Tibetans ought be handed over to the Chinese communist party.

Why should we care?

Because you can’t have goodwill and India-China trade merely by surrendering leverage. Conversely, as the record shows, the Tibet issue has hardly affected India-China trade.

I have been to Mcleodganj and seen the dalai lama and the tibetan monks settled there. I think they add to the culture and economy of the place and it would be criminal to ask them to leave. Many of them have lived in India most of their lives, including the dalai lama, and have about as much right to live in India as any other Indian citizen has.

India should have never recognized Tibet to be a part of China. By doing so, they validated the Chinese claim over many areas of India, mainly in Arunachal Pradesh. These areas were part of Tibet before the McMahon line was drawn by the British, which the Chinks don’t recognize.

“Shouldn’t we rather build up goodwill by China and foster Indo-China trade?
[Janus Man on March 18th, 2008 at 13:02 ]”

India has nothing to gain from increasing trade with China. The trade deficit is around $4bn and growing. It is a one way street.

N Ram and other leftists are enamored with China and its economic prosperity without–supposedly– sacrificing socialism. What a joke. China is practicing the worst sort of capitalism– dictatorial capitalism. It is the same type of capitalism N Ram and his ilk have been riling against for years, and now embrace. Hypocrites!

I think Atanu has distilled what China thinks of India very well.
If India grovels and genuflects in front of China (one can count on our bendable PM to oblige), they might like us and may therefore choose to invade India last. But invade they will.

One needs the clarity of though of George Fernandes to say it plainly: “China is our most dangerous neighbour”.

The Times of India is launching in Chennai in a couple of days. The stand price is slated to be approx Re 1.

Bleak times ahead for the paper. The youth (of any caste/religion) do not connect with the left ideology any more. DC already has far better coverage of local events (for example the recent caste riots, the Chidambaram temple, even parties etc). There are lot of crosswords on the internet which do not cost anything.

Hindu still holds its ground in local engagements (this or that meeting, concert info) and employment supplement. DC / TOI – are you listening ?

Search across INI

Nitin, given the strong anti-Dalai Llama signals from Beijing, there is a great likelihood that commies will put pressure on the lame-duck UPA government to humiliate him. They would ideally like him to be expelled out of India, but given that is not easy to accomplish, they’d try and do what they did to Taslima Nasrin. The Hindu can be expected to play its assigned role in this dirty game.

The western countries have not recognized Tibet and will not recognize Tibet – we all know that. It’s time for everyone to move on. More importantly, my question is – Has the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan refugees overstayed their welcome in India? My opinion is yes they have – if you want proof, pls travel to Dharamsala or McLeodganj. You don’t feel like you’re in India. Nehru gave the Dalai Lama refugee status on the condition that he does not use India as a platform to campaign for a separate state.

Can we ask the Richard Geres of the world to petition their Government to give the Dalai Lama a refugee status in the US. I don’t see that happening in my lifetime – essentially what you hear from the US and the western media is just noise – nobody will do anything. So, the question is – why should we care? Shouldn’t we rather build up goodwill by China and foster Indo-China trade?

I see what Janus Man is saying: that for fostering Indo-China trade, Indians should turn out someone who has sought refuge in India. Yes, all that nonsense about the guest being akin to a god visiting (“atithi devo bhavo”) is a lot of nonsense anyway. Who needs high-sounding principles when what we chiefly need is cheap manufactured stuff

If India can appease China, perhaps China will eat parts of India last.

Oldtimer

>>The western countries have not recognized Tibet and will not recognize Tibet

So?

>>Has the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan refugees overstayed their welcome in India?

Those Indian communists who are pro-China and anti-India sure do think so, but there is no reason to believe that Indians endorse this view. The bigger question is, should Indians heed to the views of Marxist fundamentalists, since they poll less than 7% vote, are anti-democratic and follow a genocidal ideology anyway?

>>Nehru gave the Dalai Lama refugee status on the condition that he does not use India as a platform to campaign for a separate state.

I doubt this. Post the exact terms of refuge as spelled out to Dalai Llama, if you have them.

First off, Dalai Llama’s presence in India is not Nehru’s grace. Nehru and his government only bowed to a popular Indian desire.

Second, the Llama set up a “government in exile” in India — one would have to be cuckoo to suppose that he’s set up a Tibetan government subservient to China. If India granted him refuge on the condition that he should not campaign for an independent Tibet, it would not have allowed him to call his organization a government either.

>>pls travel to Dharamsala or McLeodganj. You don’t feel like you’re in India

Your problem, you know. India is a very diverse country. I feel alien too in some parts of India, but we have to overcome that feeling. At any rate, culturally and historically, India has strong ties with Tibet and Tibetan buddhism so it’s strange that you should have panicked in McLeodgunj.

>>So, the question is – why should we care?

For the same reason that we should care about a person who has been assaulted, mugged and left injured on the roadside. Only, in this case, the victim happens to be a friend of ours, and the mugger no well-wisher.

>>Shouldn’t we rather build up goodwill by China and foster Indo-China trade?

We should, but this is not either-or. Goodwill is a two-way street. China doesn’t think its arming of Pakistan should deter us from being friends with it, right. Neither should China place conditions on us to seek stronger relationship with it.

Nitin

Janus Man

pls travel to Dharamsala or McLeodganj. You don’t feel like you’re in India

I think you need to travel, my friend. There are so many places in India where you don’t feel like you’re in India.

Now, for the fact: the Dalai Lama is not campaigning for a separate state. So he’s not violating any promise he made Nehru. And by the way, that promise can’t be said to be in the nature of an inviolable treaty or contract. The only grounds you could say that the promise holds, are moral. And if you are arguing a moral position, you can’t also argue that the Tibetans ought be handed over to the Chinese communist party.

Why should we care?

Because you can’t have goodwill and India-China trade merely by surrendering leverage. Conversely, as the record shows, the Tibet issue has hardly affected India-China trade.

“you can’t also argue that the Tibetans ought be handed over to the Chinese communist party.”

I dont think he has.

regards,
Jai

krishna

I have been to Mcleodganj and seen the dalai lama and the tibetan monks settled there. I think they add to the culture and economy of the place and it would be criminal to ask them to leave. Many of them have lived in India most of their lives, including the dalai lama, and have about as much right to live in India as any other Indian citizen has.

Sumanth

India should have never recognized Tibet to be a part of China. By doing so, they validated the Chinese claim over many areas of India, mainly in Arunachal Pradesh. These areas were part of Tibet before the McMahon line was drawn by the British, which the Chinks don’t recognize.

“Shouldn’t we rather build up goodwill by China and foster Indo-China trade?
[Janus Man on March 18th, 2008 at 13:02 ]”

India has nothing to gain from increasing trade with China. The trade deficit is around $4bn and growing. It is a one way street.

N Ram and other leftists are enamored with China and its economic prosperity without–supposedly– sacrificing socialism. What a joke. China is practicing the worst sort of capitalism– dictatorial capitalism. It is the same type of capitalism N Ram and his ilk have been riling against for years, and now embrace. Hypocrites!

I think Atanu has distilled what China thinks of India very well.
If India grovels and genuflects in front of China (one can count on our bendable PM to oblige), they might like us and may therefore choose to invade India last. But invade they will.

One needs the clarity of though of George Fernandes to say it plainly: “China is our most dangerous neighbour”.

This truth is hard to swallow for our Xinhua purchased media.

rc

The Times of India is launching in Chennai in a couple of days. The stand price is slated to be approx Re 1.

Bleak times ahead for the paper. The youth (of any caste/religion) do not connect with the left ideology any more. DC already has far better coverage of local events (for example the recent caste riots, the Chidambaram temple, even parties etc). There are lot of crosswords on the internet which do not cost anything.

Hindu still holds its ground in local engagements (this or that meeting, concert info) and employment supplement. DC / TOI – are you listening ?