I'm thinking about not choosing One Mind on my next ascension, saving like 10 sugar lumps and waiting for a frenzy, then keep hitting Force the Hand of Fate and reloading the magic with the lumps to get an exponential combo of awesome.

I'm thinking about not choosing One Mind on my next ascension, saving like 10 sugar lumps and waiting for a frenzy, then keep hitting Force the Hand of Fate and reloading the magic with the lumps to get an exponential combo of awesome.

If you just want to avoid red cookies, then you'd be better off going full grandmapocalypse and pledging, rather than not buying One Mind.

The wrath cookie from FTHOF can be an elder frenzy or cursed finger, and it has a higher chance than the others of giving a free sugar lump. I think it's called an unlucky wrath cookie because it can't be a Lucky!

So, this is my first post here, but I'm a loyal non-cheater and I just thought of a decently powerful cookie-generation strategy for idle play (because I don't have time to babysit this game) and I figured I'd share it here in case it's news to anybody.

- Save your chocolate egg. DO NOT CLICK on your chocolate egg.- Make sure you have 400 of every cheap building, and buy as many of the more expensive buildings as you can. Just make sure you still have enough cookies left in your bank that Spontaneous Edifice always has a valid target.- Check the game once an hour or so to cast Spontaneous Edifice. Be patient, because if you're not around your computer all day it'll take a while to get all your building counts to 400. Personally, I'm nowhere close yet.- Switch one of your dragon bonuses over to Earth Shatterer.- As you get closer to 400 chancemakers, they'll start to get absurdly expensive. To make sure that you have enough cookies in bank for Spontaneous Edifice to cast successfully, you may sometimes have to sell your previous chancemaker (unless you have some other quick way of generating duodecillions of cookies in a hurry).- From some quick mental math, when you're at 399 chancemakers, the 400th one should cost about 30 duodecillion cookies. When you're finally at 400 of every building, sell a chancemaker so you can cast Spontaneous Edifice again.- 85% of 30 duodecillion is 25.5 duodecillion. So, around once an hour, you'll be able to Spontaneously create a chancemaker, sell it, and add 25.5 duodecillion cookies to your bank.- These cookies don't add to your "cookies baked" count, of course, and they don't grant any prestige. HOWEVER, when you finally click on your chocolate egg, you'll get a completely absurd amount of cookies and prestige. 5% of 25.5 duodecillion is around 1.25 duodecillion. So, in effect, you'll be able to generate about 1.25 duodecillion "cookies baked" per hour with this strategy.

Another benefit of this strategy is that you don't have to spend any sugar lumps, in case you're planning to idle this game for 2 years to get all of the level 10 building achievements (like I am).

The only minor disagreement I have is that it's still worth buying a building the normal way - or, equivalently, not selling it - provided the run is expected to continue for long enough so that the extra production more than compensates for getting fewer cookies from Chocolate Egg. In another thread I gave a means to calculate at what point in the run it's best to stop buying buildings. I think the thread was called "When to stop buying buildings". I believe my reasoning would still apply if you are using the above strategy involving Spontaneous Edifice.

I believe my reasoning would still apply if you are using the above strategy involving Spontaneous Edifice.

It's definitely worth considering that in a normal run, but I'm not sure that the cookies generated by buildings are even relevant with this strategy. Cheating out 1.25 duodecillion cookies per hour is more than a thousand times faster than my current idle production rate. In my mind, the best thing to do is to try to push your building counts to 400 as quickly as possible to start earning these returns earlier, even if that means buying buildings that'll never pay for themselves with their CpS alone.

I believe my reasoning would still apply if you are using the above strategy involving Spontaneous Edifice.

It's definitely worth considering that in a normal run, but I'm not sure that the cookies generated by buildings are even relevant with this strategy. Cheating out 1.25 duodecillion cookies per hour is more than a thousand times faster than my current idle production rate. In my mind, the best thing to do is to try to push your building counts to 400 as quickly as possible to start earning these returns earlier, even if that means buying buildings that'll never pay for themselves with their CpS alone.

If you invoke Spontaneous Edifice with less than 400 of some buildings, you will still get those returns, they just won't be quite as big. Granted, selling the 396th Chancemaker won't net you as much as selling the 400th. The question is, though, is it worth buying those extra few Chancemakers because of that? Buying them will deplete your bank substantially, and that will decrease your bonus from CE. I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as you suggest.

The other thing to consider is - and this is referring to the live game - there seems to be general agreement that the optimum building distribution has a fair gap between Prisms and Chancemakers. At present for example I have 24 more Prisms than Chancemakers - 355 as against 331. The effect of this is that Prisms, not Chancemakers, are the most expensive building, and therefore the one that would deliver the most return if created by Spontaneous Edifice. Actually Chancemakers come in third, just behind Antimatter Condensers. Prisms and ACs are more expensive before they are more productive, due to the effect of synergies, which makes it worth owning more of them. Given that, it seems to me that it would make sense to NOT have Prisms and ACs over 400, to give the spell a chance at producing one of those rather than a Chancemaker.

If you invoke Spontaneous Edifice with less than 400 of some buildings, you will still get those returns, they just won't be quite as big. Granted, selling the 396th Chancemaker won't net you as much as selling the 400th. The question is, though, is it worth buying those extra few Chancemakers because of that? Buying them will deplete your bank substantially, and that will decrease your bonus from CE. I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as you suggest.

I think the one element of this that's fairly cut-and-dried is that selling your 400th chancemaker is vastly more profitable than selling any other single building that you can get with spontaneous edifice, so if you're planning to create and sell the same single building over and over for a long time span, you might as well try to push every building count to 400. If you don't want to burn too many of your banked cookies buying buildings the old fashioned way, you can try to get all the way to 400 of each building with spontaneous edifice before selling any of them (which is actually what I'm trying to do right now).

I decided to come back and see what is up. Lots of progress to be made it seems. I haven't done much yet but with no effort my cps went from 7.4 oct/s to ~250 oct/s and I'm sure that I'll be hitting over 1 non/s very soon.

I also like all of the changes to the spells on wizard towers.

Time to spend 123 sugar lumps. I'm assuming get wizard towers to the point where you can cast diminish ineptitude + edifice is the way to go first? Then start working your way from the 'bottom up' and getting to lvl 10?

I guess the plan is to focus sugar lumps on chancemakers, time machines, and prisms for now then. Once I get the three of them to lvl 10 then I'll have to decide what makes the most sense after that. It will get complicated factoring in the easier 1 percent increases for lower amounts of sugar lumps versus going for lvl 10s quickly for the achievements. Without doing the math, my gut tells me that the achievements are best in the long run for overall production once you get down to the 'lower producing' buildings.

Started a new run and trying to see how quickly I can get my cps up to 1 nonillion. Probably still a few days away I'd guess.

I guess the plan is to focus sugar lumps on chancemakers, time machines, and prisms for now then. Once I get the three of them to lvl 10 then I'll have to decide what makes the most sense after that. It will get complicated factoring in the easier 1 percent increases for lower amounts of sugar lumps versus going for lvl 10s quickly for the achievements. Without doing the math, my gut tells me that the achievements are best in the long run for overall production once you get down to the 'lower producing' buildings.

Started a new run and trying to see how quickly I can get my cps up to 1 nonillion. Probably still a few days away I'd guess.

I analysed the benefit from sugar lumps some time ago and came to the conclusion that the best building to level up is the one for which increased CpS divided by number of lumps required is a maximum. Of course the Temples and Wizard towers should be the first ones to take up to Level 1, but after that I think my strategy above is the best.

(1) Temples to level 1, to get those spirits, especially Godzamok.(2) Wizard towers to level 1 for the spells.(3) Farms to whatever level you are satisfied with for a decent garden minigame, up to 9. It probably depends on how actively you play. (4) If you have Sugar Baking, allow lumps to accumulate until you have 100.(5) Level up remaining buildings according to which gives the best value of increased CpS divided by lumps required. That is, unless you want to go for the "Level 10 of everything" achievement, but I don't think I have the patience for that.

Things that make me mad, Part 3: selling a chancemaker so I can get it back with Spontaneous Edifice, and finding I have sold TEN of them. GRRRRR.

If there is one thing I would fix about the game, it is this bug whereby if I navigate to the game window using Ctrl-Tab, the buy/sell multiple is always set to "x10". I have now mostly got used to pressing the Ctrl key again to revert to whatever setting I left the game on, but invariably the times when I forget will be the times when it's important. Like now, for example. The return from selling 10 chancemakers at once is only about 5.8 times the return from selling one, so effectively I have given up 4 of the buggers for zero return. And before you ask, I was not quick enough to realise my mistake and reverse it through "save-scumming".

Things that make me mad, Part 3: selling a chancemaker so I can get it back with Spontaneous Edifice, and finding I have sold TEN of them. GRRRRR.

Story of my life. I tend to Ctrl+T or Ctrl+Shift+T a lot while I'm on the CC tab, and this just keeps my buildings at sell 10. Spamming Ctrl or Shift when I get back onto my CC tab tends to fix it in a couple seconds without the hassle of scrolling back up the buildings list to manually click it back to sell 1.

About the (5) point of your sugar lump strategy, I think it is worth considering the milk gained from the level 10 building achievements compared against the most efficient CpS boosts from each building. Personally, I level up each building to level 10 according to it's percentage of my production. AMC were at level 10 first, then Chancemakers, now I'm working on Prisms, etc. This way I get a good-but-less-than-optimal CpS boost from each sugar lump, but the milk gained from each achievement may balance it out or even surpass it in the long run. I haven't run the numbers.