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SACRAMENTO — As the state moves to expand healthcare coverage to millions of Californians under President Obama's healthcare law, it faces a major obstacle: There aren't enough doctors to treat a crush of newly insured patients.

Some lawmakers want to fill the gap by redefining who can provide healthcare.

They are working on proposals that would allow physician assistants to treat more patients and nurse practitioners to set up independent practices. Pharmacists and optometrists could act as primary care providers, diagnosing and managing some chronic illnesses, such as diabetes and high-blood pressure.

If you don't mind seeing a pharmacist when you have chest pains...have at it Hoss.

When I was in the hospital after my stoke my doctor did rounds with a pharmacist to tell him what drugs bet fit my symptoms. Pharmacists are doctors and know which drugs actually work best. For chest pains I go to the hospital; for recomendations to control my High Blood pressure I would have no problem going to my Pharmacist. As for Nurse Practionairs and PA's, from my experience they are perfectly qualified to do general diagnosis and treatment. This is a good idea, not simply because of an influx of new patients, it should be a good way of lowering the cost of healthcare. It is far cheaper to go directly to my pharmacist for my perscription than having to make an appointment, pay my cardiologist $150.00, the cost of an office visit, then go to my pharmacist for my perscription. But hey, it's your money, tweek your own cookie hoss...

When I was in the hospital after my stoke my doctor did rounds with a pharmacist to tell him what drugs bet fit my symptoms. Pharmacists are doctors and know which drugs actually work best. For chest pains I go to the hospital; for recomendations to control my High Blood pressure I would have no problem going to my Pharmacist. As for Nurse Practionairs and PA's, from my experience they are perfectly qualified to do general diagnosis and treatment. This is a good idea, not simply because of an influx of new patients, it should be a good way of lowering the cost of healthcare. It is far cheaper to go directly to my pharmacist for my perscription than having to make an appointment, pay my cardiologist $150.00, the cost of an office visit, then go to my pharmacist for my perscription. But hey, it's your money, tweek your own cookie hoss...

You could save even more by putting on your favorite furry outfit and heading down to see Dr. Paws, don't try humping his leg though.

The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.

When I was in the hospital after my stoke my doctor did rounds with a pharmacist to tell him what drugs bet fit my symptoms...for recomendations to control my High Blood pressure I would have no problem going to my Pharmacist. As for Nurse Practionairs and PA's, from my experience they are perfectly qualified to do general diagnosis and treatment.

You're talking about medical conditions after the fact. ie, you have already seen a real doctor.

If you're a person that starts having numbness in their hands or feet and frequent trips to the bathroom (symptoms of diabetes) do you really want to be told to go to an optometrist for diagnosis? If you support pharmacists and optometrists doing diagnoses, then by all means...go. I prefer to see my doctor and to not have to wait more than a day to do so. Like I do today.

Freaking liberals will just not let go of an argument no matter how ridiculous. You know, I've been losing all this weight and I'm incredibly tired lately (more symptoms of diabetes) let me go see if that guy who says "same, better, worse" and makes me read that chart with the big E knows what I'm suffering from. Are you kidding me? What the F country is this???

You're talking about medical conditions after the fact. ie, you have already seen a real doctor.

If you're a person that starts having numbness in their hands or feet and frequent trips to the bathroom (symptoms of diabetes) do you really want to be told to go to an optometrist for diagnosis? If you support pharmacists and optometrists doing diagnoses, then by all means...go. I prefer to see my doctor and to not have to wait more than a day to do so. Like I do today.

Freaking liberals will just not let go of an argument no matter how ridiculous. You know, I've been losing all this weight and I'm incredibly tired lately (more symptoms of diabetes) let me go see if that guy who says "same, better, worse" and makes me read that chart with the big E knows what I'm suffering from. Are you kidding me? What the F country is this???

Where did I say you should go see your Optometrist for symptoms of diabetes? It takes months to get in to see my Optometrist anyway...I would be dead before I got there. On the other hand, a Pharmacist, your original argument, would know your symptoms and the drugs that fit them as well or better than your doctor; they should also know how to do the appropriate tests, and the drugs for them. The same for Nurse Practitioner and PA's. What problem do you see here?

You are trying to shoot down an argument simply because one of four options is objectionable. You said you were a conservative because you thought for yourself, yet you are displaying no thought, simply a knee-jerk and petty reaction. This country should be about offering a high quality of life for everyone and healthcare is a big part of that. If we don't have enough doctors to do that now, and a reasonable solution is presented, then what the F is wrong with this country is those who stand in the way...Hoss...

Where did I say you should go see your Optometrist for symptoms of diabetes? It takes months to get in to see my Optometrist anyway...I would be dead before I got there. On the other hand, a Pharmacist, your original argument, would know your symptoms and the drugs that fit them as well or better than your doctor; they should also know how to do the appropriate tests, and the drugs for them. The same for Nurse Practitioner and PA's. What problem do you see here?

Fredocare will tell you to go see an optometrist when you complain about the symptons I listed. You could see an optomestrist in Walmart tonight if you wanted to.

I don't want to be told to go see an optometrist or a pharmacist for any ailment whatsoever. If you want to...then go. It will free up more openings for the rest of us that want to see a real medical doctor when we have something other than a fork stuck in our eye.

We're going backwards in this country and this toolbag is actually arguing on behalf of this. Am I on television?

When I was in the hospital after my stoke my doctor did rounds with a pharmacist to tell him what drugs bet fit my symptoms. Pharmacists are doctors and know which drugs actually work best. For chest pains I go to the hospital; for recomendations to control my High Blood pressure I would have no problem going to my Pharmacist. As for Nurse Practionairs and PA's, from my experience they are perfectly qualified to do general diagnosis and treatment. This is a good idea, not simply because of an influx of new patients, it should be a good way of lowering the cost of healthcare. It is far cheaper to go directly to my pharmacist for my perscription than having to make an appointment, pay my cardiologist $150.00, the cost of an office visit, then go to my pharmacist for my perscription. But hey, it's your money, tweek your own cookie hoss...

Pharmacists are not doctors. They are chemists, which means that they have a detailed knowledge of the different chemicals that doctors prescribe, but they are not qualified to diagnose illness or prescribe medications. A pharmacist probably knows more about the practice of medicine than someone who has no professional interest in the practice of medicine (like the politicians who drafted Obamacare), but he does not know enough to safely prescribe druges and treat illnesses beyond the basic recommendation of over the counter remedies.

Originally Posted by PeterS

Where did I say you should go see your Optometrist for symptoms of diabetes? It takes months to get in to see my Optometrist anyway...I would be dead before I got there. On the other hand, a Pharmacist, your original argument, would know your symptoms and the drugs that fit them as well or better than your doctor; they should also know how to do the appropriate tests, and the drugs for them. The same for Nurse Practitioner and PA's. What problem do you see here?

You are trying to shoot down an argument simply because one of four options is objectionable. You said you were a conservative because you thought for yourself, yet you are displaying no thought, simply a knee-jerk and petty reaction.

A pharmacist might know your symptoms, but would he know all of the likely conditions that could cause them? You are assuming that pharmacists know as much about the treatment of diseases as doctors, or that you know as much about their duties as they do, and can decide the scope of their responsibilities based on your presumption of your own infallibility. You are messing with things that you don't understand, because you want a specific outcome, but no matter how often you are told that the outcome is impossible, you keep clamoring for it.

Originally Posted by PeterS

This country should be about offering a high quality of life for everyone and healthcare is a big part of that. If we don't have enough doctors to do that now, and a reasonable solution is presented, then what the F is wrong with this country is those who stand in the way...Hoss...

Where in the Constitution does it say that the government is responsible for the quality of life of the average citizen, or that it has the right to distribute goods and services in order to ensure that everyone has an equal share in that quality? This country was about offering people the opportunity to govern themselves, to determine their own priorities and pursue them. It was never meant to guarantee prosperity, only to step out of the way so that we could achieve it ourselves. It was not supposed to feed, clothe or house us, but to protect our right to feed, clothe and house ourselves. The problem is not people who are attempting to keep utopian fantasists from imposing their idiocies, but those who insist, without any special knowledge or insight, that they can make our decisions for us with better results. Or, to put it another way, exactly what are Barack Obama's qualifications in the field of medicine, insurance, distribution, management or any other field that would qualify him to dictate how we make medical decisions for ourselves and our families? For that matter, what are your qualifications? When you can answer that, then your opinion on how we should overhaul one-seventh of our ecnomy will have some weight. Until then, it is just ignorant wishful thinking, on your part and on the part of the government.

Pharmacists are not doctors. They are chemists, which means that they have a detailed knowledge of the different chemicals that doctors prescribe, but they are not qualified to diagnose illness or prescribe medications. A pharmacist probably knows more about the practice of medicine than someone who has no professional interest in the practice of medicine (like the politicians who drafted Obamacare), but he does not know enough to safely prescribe druges and treat illnesses beyond the basic recommendation of over the counter remedies.

Doctor of Pharmacy Degree

While bachelor's degrees in pharmacy were once the requirement for entry-level positions, pharmacists are now required to hold Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.) professional degrees. Pharm.D. programs take four years to complete and prepare students for the technical, scientific and patient-care aspects of the profession. Courses may include:

Pathophysiology

Toxicology

Disease treatments

Biopharmaceuticals

Pharmacy ethics and law

Drug absorption rates

Patient care

Medicinal chemistry

Pharm.D. programs also incorporate clinical training into their curricula. Through clerkships, students gain practical experience in pharmacy settings under the supervision of licensed pharmacists. The goal of clinical practice is to familiarize students with patient interaction while allowing them to develop professional skills by applying knowledge acquired in the classroom.

Post-Graduate Training

Graduates of Pharm.D. programs may choose to pursue additional training through residencies or fellowships. These programs generally last 1-2 years and allow training pharmacists to gain direct, patient-care experience in community pharmacies, hospitals and other healthcare facilities. Residents may pursue training in general, clinical or specialty pharmacy practice and are typically required to complete research projects. Fellowships provide pharmacists with more specialized training in a particular field, such as biomedical research, community pharmacy practice or geriatrics pharmacology.

Doesn't sound like just a chemist to me...

A pharmacist might know your symptoms, but would he know all of the likely conditions that could cause them? You are assuming that pharmacists know as much about the treatment of diseases as doctors, or that you know as much about their duties as they do, and can decide the scope of their responsibilities based on your presumption of your own infallibility.

I had a major stoke caused by an aortic aneurysm 3 years ago and was in critical care for 2 months, a specialty hospital for 2 months and a rehab hospital for 4 months. In the critical care unit my doctor did rounds with a pharmacist to make sure that the drugs I received met my symptoms which were flux almost minute by minute. My doctors didn't know the exact cause behind my stroke until the diagnostician at the CT center told them that I had not one but two aneurysms in my aorta. I would assume, if needed, a pharmacist could use the same sources as a medical doctor for diagnosis couldn't they?

You are messing with things that you don't understand, because you want a specific outcome, but no matter how often you are told that the outcome is impossible, you keep clamoring for it.

Why is the outcome impossible? If the flaw is that there are too few medical doctors to handle the load of new patients under Obamacare, as is the premise of this argument, and if using Nurse Practitioners, PA's, and Pharmacists can help to absorb the overflow I don't see the impossibility at all. In fact, it seems a very reasonable and practical solution and therefore very possible.

This country was about offering people the opportunity to govern themselves, to determine their own priorities and pursue them. It was never meant to guarantee prosperity, only to step out of the way so that we could achieve it ourselves.

You can't accomplish that without your health and if government is not here to ensure quality of life then it has no purpose. We are capable of defending ourselves, at least collectively, nor do we need a centralized government for self governance nor for individual prosperity. And in fact, the larger the government and more centralized the greater the jeopardy to all propositions. And yet that is exactly what we did, almost, before the ink was even dry. Therefore, I go back to what I originally said:

"This country should be about offering a high quality of life for everyone and healthcare is a big part of that. If we don't have enough doctors to do that now, and a reasonable solution is presented, then what the F is wrong with this country is those who stand in the way...Hoss..."

Obamacare isn't going anywhere whether you like it our not. When I see a solution presented that I like I will support it. If you don't like it then don't use it. I could give a F who, if anyone, you see when you are sick.