Consider not getting them at all. I got mine two years ago from Dadant. I don't like them. Just my personal preference. They seem durable enough, but I like the feel of pine instead. Not real sure which one the bees prefer.

Tell you what mswartfager. Now this is doing the ultimate sin and assuming that you use the telescoping cover, tops. Go out when it is about 98 deg. in the summer, in the sun and pop open the metal covered telescoping cover and quickly put your hand on the bottom side of it. Then do the same with the polystyrene cover and tell me which condition you think would be a more inhabitable environment to reside in.

We don't get a lot of days in the ninties and didn't have a single day of 98 degree weather this summer or last summer in Northwest PA. When it is very warm out my bees seem to cluster outside the entrance of the beemax hive equally as much as with the standard woods hives.

Tell you what mswartfager. Now this is doing the ultimate sin and assuming that you use the telescoping cover, tops. Go out when it is about 98 deg. in the summer, in the sun and pop open the metal covered telescoping cover and quickly put your hand on the bottom side of it. Then do the same with the polystyrene cover and tell me which condition you think would be a more inhabitable environment to reside in.

LOL on 98 deg. days in MA may get 2 or 3 per year 90 to 95 only 7 days this year 2009

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

OK I see that I listed the extreme conditions for some parts of our country but my point is that I run a standard wooden box setup with the Beemax telescoping tops just because I have done the heat experiment and have noticed a considerable difference in the heat under the the top cover that is of the insulating type just with my hand as a indicator. My tops have all been changed to these, Painted white, Polystyrene covers just because of the way my simple mind works. My theory is that if the bees do not have to work as hard to keep it cool in the summer they may not think they are running out of room as quickly to start the swarm process and could be using their efforts to be more productive. That being said, if you have many hives that have the wooden ones already I think the cost effective method would be to provide a insulation barrier to keep the heat out. I did notice some difference when I painted some of the tin, tops with a paint that was almost chrome like before I made the change. They were so bright it hurt your eyes without sunglasses when you got near the hives. 8-) I wish I would have put one of my A/C temp. probes in them and documented the difference in temps., but I could feel it with my bare hands. This was also before I started building my ventilated inner covers. Different strokes. ;)

Betterbee is the only palce I have found that sells them online. If I am wrong can someone please post a link? I am not interested in using these as full time hive but for taking a frame of brood in july and adding queen to replace deadouts and increase the spring. Save some money on packages and you can make honey with them the first year if the waether is good. Plus if you have extras you can sell them.

Betterbee is the only palce I have found that sells them online. If I am wrong can someone please post a link? I am not interested in using these as full time hive but for taking a frame of brood in july and adding queen to replace deadouts and increase the spring. Save some money on packages and you can make honey with them the first year if the waether is good. Plus if you have extras you can sell them.

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. KennedyFranklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

would someone 'learn' me a bit on do these poly hives keep heat out in the summer that much better and do they not hold too much heat generated by the bees?

I think most people use them to retain heat in the winter. In the summer they aren't effected by solar heat gain as much as the wooden ones, and I have notices no difference in the amount of bearding, etc that would indicate heat issues. Granted, I am not in the South where it gets extremely hot, but we do get a few 90+ days. I do notice 25-30% less honey consumption during winter compared to wood.

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Also, I would think they would retain condensation much more, or is there a 'trick' they have have to resolve that?

They do, and the trick is to make sure the top has a higher insulated value then the walls, so the condensation happens on the walls and runs down and does not drip on the bees. That is also a major issue with the traditional Langstroth design (assuming you don't put upper ventilation to allow condensation and heat to escape), you get the cool air space above the inner cover where condensation takes place, and if there is enough, it drips back down on the bees.

Polystyrene hives have been used in Europe for many years and is the norm in many places.

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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

..... the trick is to make sure the top has a higher insulated value then the walls, so the condensation happens on the walls and runs down and does not drip on the bees. That is also a major issue with the traditional Langstroth design (assuming you don't put upper ventilation to allow condensation and heat to escape), you get the cool air space above the inner cover where condensation takes place, and if there is enough, it drips back down on the bees.

Robo,

Do you have to make any modifications to the poly nucs to make sure the insulation on the lid is sufficient, or are the designed with that in mind.

Also, so you implement this same concept into your wooden nucs and full hives that you overwinter?

Rob would the insulated, vented shims that I have seen do the same for a Lang hive? I have seen the 2 inch thick piece of foam inserted into the shim, and I would assume that this increases the insulation value significantly over the bare wood walls. What do you think?

I found that a slice of 1.5 inch polystyrene placed on top of the inner cover, under the top greatly reduces condensation at the top of my wooden Langs. My inner covers have a slot in one end to form a top entrance or ventilation vent. I place the inner cover so that this is up. Next add a 1.5" spacer rim, to give room for bars of candy and pollen, then the polystyrene and finally the top. I'm guessing the candy, polystyrene insulation and vent all contribute to the reduction in condensation. My newer tops have the 1.5" insulation built in, making life a little easier and improving the weather protection for the inner cover and vent.

FYI, you can buy polystyrene tops for 10-frame wooden Langs from Dadant. These seem like a good idea to me, as long as you use an inner cover and paint them :)

Do you have to make any modifications to the poly nucs to make sure the insulation on the lid is sufficient, or are the designed with that in mind.

I do not make any modifications to the lids on the polystyrene nucs. The reduced space of the nuc and the fact that the cluster is in relative close proximity to the top keeps it warm enough for no condensation directly above them. Any condensation will take place along the edges and run down the sides. I do put a 1/2" drainage hole in the corner of the nucs and tip the nuc so any water runs out. If you don't provide drainage, they will collect quite a bit of water in the bottom and become quite wet.

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Also, so you implement this same concept into your wooden nucs and full hives that you overwinter?

I don't overwinter wooden nucs, and have switched most of my full hives to polystyrene as well. On the full size hive I use a 2" piece of foiled rigid insulation either right on top of the top hive body, or on top of a 3" sugar shim that is made out of the 2" foiled rigid insulation. No top ventilation and no inner cover.

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Rob would the insulated, vented shims that I have seen do the same for a Lang hive? I have seen the 2 inch thick piece of foam inserted into the shim, and I would assume that this increases the insulation value significantly over the bare wood walls. What do you think?

Yes, I use 2" rigid insulation on my hives. If you have any type of upper ventilation, then I'm not sure how much, if any, help it provides. Triple pane super insulated windows don't help any more than single pane windows when you leave them cracked open.

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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison