"Odds" is little more than theater for those who might like weird spectacles. My opinion of course.

"Time odds" - now that is the only thing of interest to me because both sides are at least playing the 'same game' with the 'same pieces'...only the machine will always think (?? okay, calculate) faster so 'time needs to be the attempted equalizer'. Not material which changes the game on the board. Why not just not allow the computer to put a single piece/pawn on its 3rd rank...think of the oddities - the human could try to use that to his advantage at various parts of the game. But, again, a gimick.

A Nakamura match of say 15 min/5 sec delay to 2 min for Komodo (pick your difference...depends largely on processor(s) speed at the point), now that would be interesting as both sides are truly playing the same game on the board.

Well, someone on the Stockfish team calculated that for a fair match between latest Stockfish on a good quad vs. Magnus the time odds needed for a fair match (without ponder by SF) would be a ratio of a thousand to one, which means about 500 to 1 for Komodo vs Magnus (or Naka, not much difference in blitz). You can reduce that a lot by giving the human White every game and draw odds, and by a 1 core limit, and by an opening book limit (or none at all). We did one match that way, I'd be fine with doing another. Or Naka could just play Komodo level 24, which is roughly like playing it with game in three seconds.

30 min - 1800 sec - for (Naka) vs 4 sec (Komodo) per game then?? It's getting late...but I think that's roughly 500 to 1. That doesn't sound right.
But...at least is the same game with the same number of pieces.

That's pretty much the same as Naka playing rapid (15' + 10") vs. Komodo Skill level 24 (the highest crippled level), which indeed I estimated to be fair in another thread. Komodo level 24 is a bot on chess.com, so he can do that any time he wants, with no need to ask anyone to set it up. That is more useful for both Komodo and chess.com than the time odds, because anyone on chess.com or with Komodo can get the same play from it just by choosing the same level. I would like to see a formal competition with prizes to see which GM can score the most points vs. level 24.

"Odds" is little more than theater for those who might like weird spectacles. My opinion of course.

"Time odds" - now that is the only thing of interest to me because both sides are at least playing the 'same game' with the 'same pieces'...only the machine will always think (?? okay, calculate) faster so 'time needs to be the attempted equalizer'. Not material which changes the game on the board. Why not just not allow the computer to put a single piece/pawn on its 3rd rank...think of the oddities - the human could try to use that to his advantage at various parts of the game. But, again, a gimick.

A Nakamura match of say 15 min/5 sec delay to 2 min for Komodo (pick your difference...depends largely on processor(s) speed at the point), now that would be interesting as both sides are truly playing the same game on the board.

Well, someone on the Stockfish team calculated that for a fair match between latest Stockfish on a good quad vs. Magnus the time odds needed for a fair match (without ponder by SF) would be a ratio of a thousand to one, which means about 500 to 1 for Komodo vs Magnus (or Naka, not much difference in blitz). You can reduce that a lot by giving the human White every game and draw odds, and by a 1 core limit, and by an opening book limit (or none at all). We did one match that way, I'd be fine with doing another. Or Naka could just play Komodo level 24, which is roughly like playing it with game in three seconds.

30 min - 1800 sec - for (Naka) vs 4 sec (Komodo) per game then?? It's getting late...but I think that's roughly 500 to 1. That doesn't sound right.
But...at least is the same game with the same number of pieces.

That's pretty much the same as Naka playing rapid (15' + 10") vs. Komodo Skill level 24 (the highest crippled level), which indeed I estimated to be fair in another thread. Komodo level 24 is a bot on chess.com, so he can do that any time he wants, with no need to ask anyone to set it up. That is more useful for both Komodo and chess.com than the time odds, because anyone on chess.com or with Komodo can get the same play from it just by choosing the same level. I would like to see a formal competition with prizes to see which GM can score the most points vs. level 24.

If by "pressure" you mean "time pressure", then you might be right. I don't think he'll have any problem with psychological pressure due to the show or anything emotional, he's a well-balanced professional and very rational and realistic. He won't let a loss affect him in the next game. But no human is immune to the pressure of the clock.

I noticed that, a few minutes ago. How much time handicap can Komodo 14 actually give MVL or Nakamura on your 32 cores? LIke 15 Minutes to 15 Seconds for Komodo for the entire game? Today that it is a rest day Komodo 14 on your system should be challenging GM on Chess.com with time handicap and see who will dare to accept the challenge.

PS: This was a horribly one sided game in favour of Komodo against Jorge Sammour, whereas Komodo was making moves at an incredible speed, which Jorge Sammour could not handled the pressure, I guess in your system you can offer GM Lenderman 15' + 10" to Komodo 14 for the entire game only 15 seconds. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73976

Last edited by Chessqueen on Wed May 20, 2020 7:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

If by "pressure" you mean "time pressure", then you might be right. I don't think he'll have any problem with psychological pressure due to the show or anything emotional, he's a well-balanced professional and very rational and realistic. He won't let a loss affect him in the next game. But no human is immune to the pressure of the clock.

I noticed that, a few minutes ago. How much time handicap can Komodo 14 actually give MVL or Nakamura on your 32 cores? LIke 15 Minutes to 15 Seconds for Komodo for the entire game? Today that it is a rest day Komodo 14 on your system should be challenging GM on Chess.com with time handicap and see who will dare to accept

chess.com isn't set up for time odds now. But anyone, GM or patzer, can play Komodo level 24 anytime and that is roughly the same as playing Komodo on one core at game in three seconds! Even under those conditions, I think Naka would need serious time, like 15' + 10", to be competitive. Most GMs even had a tough time with what is now level 23, which is much weaker than 24, a full class I would say.

If by "pressure" you mean "time pressure", then you might be right. I don't think he'll have any problem with psychological pressure due to the show or anything emotional, he's a well-balanced professional and very rational and realistic. He won't let a loss affect him in the next game. But no human is immune to the pressure of the clock.

I noticed that, a few minutes ago. How much time handicap can Komodo 14 actually give MVL or Nakamura on your 32 cores? LIke 15 Minutes to 15 Seconds for Komodo for the entire game? Today that it is a rest day Komodo 14 on your system should be challenging GM on Chess.com with time handicap and see who will dare to accept

Chess.com isn't set up for time odds now. But anyone, GM or patzer, can play Komodo level 24 anytime and that is roughly the same as playing Komodo on one core at game in three seconds! Even under those conditions, I think Naka would need serious time, like 15' + 10", to be competitive. Most GMs even had a tough time with what is now level 23, which is much weaker than 24, a full class I would say.

Can you or your son play a time handicap against your Komodo 14 at a time that you believe that you could at least draw and post it here, such as 30'+ 5"' and to Komodo 15 Seconds? You can use Arena to set up different time by right clicking the time and either raise it up for you and lower down to Komodo. Once you Righ click on the time under arena, it will turn RED and it will allow you to adjust different times to both sides.

Definitively the MCTS version is the Human Killer with Odds, probably in the near future Chess.com can start offering time Handicap with Komodo versus Top GM; or Top GMs versus lower IM, or even FM, so players like Nakamura or MVL can offer 10'+5" to 3'+2 to give players rated 400 points lower than them a chance to win.