As for the 'screw you' to Olicity haters, I don't think there is any need for that. Goodness knows we've all had to deal with relationships that we didn't like in our entertainment. Besides if they do get together again and are not written with constant drama, but are given a mostly stable relationship like Lyla and Diggle, then I think a lot of fans will be won back or at least tolerate the relationship.

The only reason they can have a stable relationship like that with Lyla and Dig is because we barely ever see Lyla. You can tell, because when we saw her a few times this season, their relationship immediately became on the rocks.

So Sure. If that's the case, and they're willing to reduce Felicity to a minor character we see 3 times a season. Then yes. By all means, put Olicity back together.

__________________I Occasionally Draw things.They can be found in my thread by following this link.

The data is what the data is. There's a reason 30-40% of the viewership began checking out of the show at that point in Season 4 and continued through the end of Season 5 - now I am not saying that that had to be the ONLY reason - but IMO it sure had a good bit to do with it, especially when you consider that Season 5 was really good, and many viewers seem to feel that way, yet ratings have stayed down, so if, as you say, it had nothing to do with the Olicity stuff, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that many would come back sometime during Season 5 since it had such good feedback, but they haven't, viewership has stayed down and actually finished Season 5 on a continuing decline.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this data, and what you think the cause for the ratings drop is, and why you don't think people tuned back in sometime during Season 5 when it had such good review.

My hope is with the strong Season 5 and the writers trying to fix some things from Season 4 by the end of Season 5, that viewership will be on the rise next season. Time will tell.

I don't blame you for thinking that the drop in ratings has to do with the poor manner in which the breakup happened, and the constant drama in their relationship and them being focused on too much, as that is what most people were complaining about online at the time. However, it should be noted that the Flash's ratings dropped by a very large amount at the exact same time and continued to drop last season too. That makes it harder to say for sure that it was the handling of Olicity that caused it, as I do not think it could have an effect on The Flash too.

__________________"No, Robin. I won't stop. Not now. Not ever. I am the thing that keeps you up at night. The evil that haunts every dark corner of your mind. I will never rest... and neither will you."

I would say the writing being awful has a lot more to do with a loss of viewers than olicity. I could argue that all the fans dropped off because they killed Laurel. The show seemingly does all they can to isolate and eliminate every subgroup of fans.

After all, you're talking about a season where they spent more time on Felicity's mother, than key characters in the story.

Did you feel like Season 4 was poorly written outside of Felicity's character? I thought it was really really dark, but for me, the biggest thing that stood out as a negative in Season 4 was just Felicity's character overall (the way she was written). I felt like around mid-season they started making her really whiny, hypocritical, and just not very understanding / empathetic in the manner she'd been up to that point, and those personality changes directly led to the aforementioned overdramatic breakup.

As far as Laurel, I'm surprised she ever had that big of a following. I never got too attached to her at all. Season 1, she was an ok character, but never a focus of the show for me and in Season 2 and beyond I just found her somewhat annoying. I was surprised when they killed her off, but definitely not upset about it. I agree with what someone said earlier in the thread about not being a fan of the "parallel universe Black Canary". Wish they'd axe that storyline altogether.

I don't blame you for thinking that the drop in ratings has to do with the poor manner in which the breakup happened, and the constant drama in their relationship and them being focused on too much, as that is what most people were complaining about online at the time. However, it should be noted that the Flash's ratings dropped by a very large amount at the exact same time and continued to drop last season too. That makes it harder to say for sure that it was the handling of Olicity that caused it, as I do not think it could have an effect on The Flash too.

Thanks for the response -

Honestly, not too surprised on The Flash's ratings dropping. IMO that's just not a good show - from what I've seen, I'm surprised it's had as many viewers as it has up to this point. I'm not real into the crossover episodes either - would like Arrow to stay with more realistic enemies and not enemies with super powers, aliens, etc.

I'd agree - can't see Olicity having any influence on The Flash. I'll be very curious to see Arrow's ratings for Season 6 when the time comes. With the way Season 5 ended in a strong way, with good story telling, and a less dramatic Olicity pairing, I'd hope to see ratings go up.

Honestly, not too surprised on The Flash's ratings dropping. IMO that's just not a good show - from what I've seen, I'm surprised it's had as many viewers as it has up to this point. I'm not real into the crossover episodes either - would like Arrow to stay with more realistic enemies and not enemies with super powers, aliens, etc.

I'd agree - can't see Olicity having any influence on The Flash. I'll be very curious to see Arrow's ratings for Season 6 when the time comes. With the way Season 5 ended in a strong way, with good story telling, and a less dramatic Olicity pairing, I'd hope to see ratings go up.

That is fair enough, but the fact that they both dropped by such a big amount at the exact same time makes it a possibility that it may not have been down to the quality of the shows, but perhaps something else. It is possible that both shows declined in quality the same year that they were aired (15-16 in this case), but both shows doing something that is considered to be so terrible by lots of fans at the exact same time (episode 15 on both shows), so much so that a large amount stop watching is unlikely, IMO. Also, even if Flash season 2-3 was bad, they received nowhere near as much criticism as Arrow season 4, so it should not have dropped by such a large amount, if quality was the main cause. It is hard to say for sure though.

__________________"No, Robin. I won't stop. Not now. Not ever. I am the thing that keeps you up at night. The evil that haunts every dark corner of your mind. I will never rest... and neither will you."

Did you feel like Season 4 was poorly written outside of Felicity's character? I thought it was really really dark, but for me, the biggest thing that stood out as a negative in Season 4 was just Felicity's character overall (the way she was written). I felt like around mid-season they started making her really whiny, hypocritical, and just not very understanding / empathetic in the manner she'd been up to that point, and those personality changes directly led to the aforementioned overdramatic breakup.

As far as Laurel, I'm surprised she ever had that big of a following. I never got too attached to her at all. Season 1, she was an ok character, but never a focus of the show for me and in Season 2 and beyond I just found her somewhat annoying. I was surprised when they killed her off, but definitely not upset about it. I agree with what someone said earlier in the thread about not being a fan of the "parallel universe Black Canary". Wish they'd axe that storyline altogether.

I did. I've talked at length about this before, but it felt a lot like Oliver was sidelined as a secondary character in his own series. Between all the wasted time of Felicity's mom, and dragging out Damien Dhark, and getting Laurel to finally be the hero she'd been foreshadowed to become only to kill her off. Even the Thea bloodlust arc seemed tired and forced.

__________________I Occasionally Draw things.They can be found in my thread by following this link.

I did. I've talked at length about this before, but it felt a lot like Oliver was sidelined as a secondary character in his own series. Between all the wasted time of Felicity's mom, and dragging out Damien Dhark, and getting Laurel to finally be the hero she'd been foreshadowed to become only to kill her off. Even the Thea bloodlust arc seemed tired and forced.

I thought the actor who played Damien did a really nice job - I just am not as big of a fan of the "out there" enemies who have supernatural powers and stuff like that. I'm glad they got away from that in Season 5.

I thought the actor who played Damien did a really nice job - I just am not as big of a fan of the "out there" enemies who have supernatural powers and stuff like that. I'm glad they got away from that in Season 5.

I agree. I thought he was great... For awhile. It just felt like they dragged out that Darhk stuff forever. Like he was in 20 episodes, when they only needed 10 to tell the story or something.

__________________I Occasionally Draw things.They can be found in my thread by following this link.

I stopped watching after they killed Laurel, and I heard they're bringing back Katie for season 6 as a regular. So I'm going to give the show another shot, but I swear to god, if we go back to seasons 3-4 Felolicity, I will quit the show again. So, in short:

I agree. I thought he was great... For awhile. It just felt like they dragged out that Darhk stuff forever. Like he was in 20 episodes, when they only needed 10 to tell the story or something.

The problem was a lack of distinguishable lieutenant mini-bosses (I'd say the ideal amount would have been 3 or 4) that we could get to know and the team could fight, because each time they fight him and they keep getting away it undermines his level of threat. An example would be when he was distributing the pills, there was no need for him to do that physically, that should have been a top lieutenant (adapt a minor dc character for the role). They could have had at least one in the form of Double Down but they wasted him in one episode instead of using him for 3 or 4 episodes.