This morning, I made a comment about how I do not understand people who support public ownership of assault style weapons like the AR-15 used in the Colorado massacre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

That comment, has of course, inspired a lot of feedback. There have been many tweets of agreement and sympathy but many, many more that have been challenging at the least, hostile and vitriolic at the worst.

Clearly, the angry, threatened and threatening, hostile comments are coming from gun owners and gun advocates. Despite these massacres recurring and despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence - these people see no value to even considering some kind of control as to what kinds of weapons are put in civilian hands.

Note, in "civilian hands."

Many of them cite patriotism as their reason - true patriots support the Constitution adamantly and wholly. Constitution says citizens have the right to bear arms in order to maintain organized militias. I'm no constitutional scholar so here it is from the document itself:

As passed by the Congress:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
So the patriots are correct, gun ownership is in the constitution - if you're in a well-regulated militia. Let's see what no less a statesman than Alexander Hamilton had to say about a militia:

"A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss."

Or from Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Definition of MILITIA
1
a : a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency
b : a body of citizens organized for military service
2
: the whole body of able-bodied male citizens declared by law as being subject to call to military service

The advocates of guns who claim patriotism and the rights of the 2nd Amendment - are they in well-regulated militias? For the vast majority - the answer is no.

Personally, I couldn't care less what the constitution says, this line of logic is why the constitution is so problematic and is not necessarily a friend of liberty. The language in it is so vague it could be interpreted millions of different ways, rather than create some clear and immutable laws, the document is used by the government, or the people who call themselves "the government," to justify their rulership and give it the false veneer of legality and legitimacy. I'm sure many constitutional scholars could say, "well, that's not what the framers actually meant," but frankly what they actually meant has had no bearing on how the law and the document has been applied.

Then I get messages from seemingly decent and intelligent people who offer things like: @BrooklynAvi: Guns should only be banned if violent crimes committed with tomatoes means we should ban tomatoes. OR @nysportsguys1: Drunk drivers kill, should we ban fast cars?

I'm hoping that right after they hit send, they take a deep breath and realize that those arguments are completely specious. I believe tomatoes and cars have purposes other than killing. What purpose does an AR-15 serve to a sportsman that a more standard hunting rifle does not serve? Let's see - does it fire more rounds without reload? Yes. Does it fire farther and more accurately? Yes. Does it accommodate a more lethal payload? Yes. So basically, the purpose of an assault style weapon is to kill more stuff, more fully, faster and from further away. To achieve maximum lethality. Hardly the primary purpose of tomatoes and sports cars.

The purpose is not for a sportsman, the purpose is self defense. A pea shooter will not defend you against a government with nuclear bombs and flying robot killing machines (drones), neither will an AR15, but at least it's a marginally closer fight.

Now we get to the good part:

Then there are the tweets from the extreme right - these are the folk who believe our government has been corrupted and stolen and that the forces of evil are at play, planning to take over this nation and these folk are going to fight back and take a stand. And any moron like me who doesn't see it should...
a. be labeled a moron
b. shut the fuck up
c. be removed

And amazingly, I have some minor agreement with these folks. I believe there are evil forces at play in our government. But I call them corporatists. I call them absolutists. I call them the kind of ideologues from both sides, but mostly from the far right who swear allegiance to unelected officials that regardless of national need or global conditions, are never to levy a tax. That they are never to compromise or seek solutions with the other side. That are to obstruct every possible act of governance, even the ones they support or initiate. Whose political and social goal is to marginalize the other side, vilify and isolate them with the hope that they will surrender, go away or die out.

These people believe that the US government is eventually going to go street by street and enslave our citizens. Now as long as that is only happening to liberals, homosexuals and democrats - no problem. But if they try it with anyone else - it's going to be arms-ageddon and these committed, God-fearing, brave souls will then use their military-esque arsenal to show the forces of our corrupt government whats-what. These people think they meet the definition of a "militia". They don't. At least not the constitutional one. And, if it should actually come to such an unthinkable reality, these people believe they would win. That's why they have to "take our country back". From who? From anyone who doesn't think like them or see the world like them. They hold the only truth, everyone else is dangerous. Ever meet a terrorist that doesn't believe that? Just asking.

First off, are you absolutely sure of your commitment to anti-absolutism? If so, there's a contradiction there.

Nonetheless, government as an institution is the ultimate decider in every dispute, including those involving itself. In America today, the President is judge, jury, and executioner. Barack Obama has assassinated U.S. citizens based off mere suspicion they're "terrorists," he killed a 16-year-old boy from Colorado last year in a drone-strike, and provided no justification nor explanation for why he murdered him (along with other innocent members of his family). How's that for absolutism? Where does Jason Alexander stand on that issue? Because if he's not against Obama's murders, his claim to being against absolutism is pure bluster. Meanwhile, where is "the president has the power to assassinate anyone he pleases based off mere suspicion they're terrorists" in the constitution? Call me crazy, but I don't think it's in there.

Then there are the folks who write that if everyone in Colorado had a weapon, this maniac would have been stopped. Perhaps. But I do believe that the element of surprise, tear gas and head to toe kevlar protection might have given him a distinct edge. Not only that, but a crowd of people firing away in a chaotic arena without training or planning - I tend to think that scenario could produce even more victims.

He may have had an edge, but the more guns in the room the lower his edge becomes. He didn't stage his attack on a police station, he went to where he thought he could kill a ton of people with ease. Also, most people who are gun owners are trained with them, all the gun owners I've known are very responsible and reserved people who do not "shoot from the hip."

Lastly, there are these well-intended realists that say that people like this evil animal would get these weapons even if we regulated them. And they may be right. But he wouldn't have strolled down the road to Kmart and picked them up. Regulated, he would have had to go to illegal sources - sources that could possibly be traced, watched, overseen. Or he would have to go deeper online and those transactions could be monitored. "Hm, some guy in Aurora is buying guns, tons of ammo and kevlar - plus bomb-making ingredients and tear gas. Maybe we should check that out."

But that won't happen as long as all that activity is legal and unrestricted.

I have been reading on and off as advocates for these weapons make their excuses all day long. Guns don't kill - people do. Well if that's correct, I go with @BrooklynAvi, let them kill with tomatoes. Let them bring baseball bats, knives, even machetes --- a mob can deal with that.

Maybe you should read about the recent spate of knife attacks at schools in China. Hundreds of children were stabbed to death by lunatics with knives, disarming everyone in society doesn't make anyone safer. Guns act as an equalizer, they lift people above savage "rule by the strongest" by putting an old lady on the same level as a young steroid freak.

There is no excuse for the propagation of these weapons. They are not guaranteed or protected by our constitution. If they were, then we could all run out and purchase a tank, a grenade launcher, a bazooka, a SCUD missile and a nuclear warhead. We could stockpile napalm and chemical weapons and bomb-making materials in our cellars under our guise of being a militia.

It's funny he listed nuclear weapons. No one could afford to build a nuclear weapon, only a terrorist government could achieve such a feat through the type of mass wealth confiscation you only get through taxation. Most businesses concentrate on producing goods which enrich people's lives, not weapons of mass murder, that's what government's specialize in.

Here's my favorite line:

These weapons are military weapons. They belong in accountable hands, controlled hands and trained hands. They should not be in the hands of private citizens to be used against police, neighborhood intruders or people who don't agree with you. These are the weapons that maniacs acquire to wreak murder and mayhem on innocents. They are not the same as handguns to help homeowners protect themselves from intruders. They are not the same as hunting rifles or sporting rifles. These weapons are designed for harm and death on big scales.

I love this, why then, Mr. Alexander, do you think the government having all these weapons is fine? The U.S. government is the only government in the world which actually used nuclear bombs on a civilian population, they did it twice. (And don't tell me they did it to "win the war," the Japanese had already surrendered, they dropped the bombs to intimidate the Soviets.) Governments as institutions are the most murderous, criminal, terroristic organizations on planet earth, all they do is "wreak murder and mayhem on innocents." (I know, I know, they also build roads... with our tax money.)

I'll say it plainly - if someone wants these weapons, they intend to use them. And if they are willing to force others to "pry it from my cold, dead hand", then they are probably planning on using them on people.

The fact of the matter is the government possesses every "evil" weapon he cites, they have nuclear bombs, a massive arsenal of flying killing robots (drones), tanks, nuclear submarines, attack helicopters (which they used to gun down some pregnant women and children with in Honduras just the other day), endless automatic weapons (which are not used for sport), and a whole host of other exotic killing machines. You don't want a slave to have a gun, but you're fine with George W. Bush or Barack Obama having the nuclear codes. The plebs under this government are "permitted," if they jump through enough hoops, only in certain states, and only in certain jurisdictions, to have tiny handguns and shotguns and some semi-automatic rifles, but only if they prostrate themselves before the state and are granted permission to own them (by the same government which rules them and demands they pay tributes).

Once anti-gun advocates start advocating taking the guns out of the hands of the "corporatists" they claim to be against, then I'll start taking them seriously.
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Chris runs the website InformationLiberation.com, you can read more of his writings here. Follow infolib on twitter here.

I'll tell you what. If you allow a 800-pound gorilla into your house, HE decides when he's leaving and you're not in control anymore.

Likewise, if you allow a government to say "Psychos shouldn't get guns", once he's in the house, he won't go away. Anybody the government dislikes will be labeled "psycho" and goodbye right to keep and bear arms.

ohhh so now you agree.. the right to bear arms shouldnt apply to everyone.. ok.. psychos shouldnt have guns.. we agree on that..

so if not the government - whos going to decide who is psycho or not? you? me?

youre all over the place with your argument.. courage training.. seriously? lol.. ok boys and girls.. today in bravery lessons.. we are going to see who can stand in the dark the longest.. congratulations billy, you didnt cry! - here! have a gun!

ffs - if you were any more psycho.. you could run for president.

if you agree that psychos shouldnt have guns, you agree with gun control. shame on you!!!

Government is raw power. And no matter how hard they smile, THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS. "We're the government and we're here to help you" is an old joke, but their deceitfulness is no laughing matter.

Yeah, who should decide who's a "psycho"? Whoever controls the definition of "psycho" has power of life and death over millions of people. Governments have long and widely proved that they shouldn't be given such power.

So again, who should have the power to define what a "psycho" is? Perhaps no humans should, since anybody labeled a "psycho" will be denied the right to an effective self-defense and die far easier than armed people.

To make it short: "retard" and "psycho" are subjective words wide-open to all sorts of governmental abuse and discretion. Soldiers in the Middle East murder millions of people, yet they aren't labeled "psychos". Strange thing, that!

i think the definition of psycho and retard are fairly well established and easy to diagnose.

i agree that most soldiers would qualify, especially usa ones.. for either definition, but you have already agreed that psychos should be denied weapons, so its up to you to decide who should do the classifying if youre against the government doing it..

as far as gun control goes, my point is some control.. at the very least, is better than none... none that simply lets anyone order a gun through the mail..

if you disagree with that.. then youve just classified yourself..

youre goiung around in circles.. arguing that there should be no gun control as well as saying psychos shouldnt have guns but noone should be able to classify anyone else as psycho... make up your freaking psycho monkey mind bananabrain!

It can happen with or without gun-control laws. Hell, it can happen to cops too, and they are armed by law.

But if the robber enters in a room filled with 10 armed and (gun&courage) trained people and they shoot the robber, let me tell you, the robber won't look too good with many holes in his body.

The point is, disarming common people gives criminals (robbers AND politicians) more power, but doesn't solve the problem. It only makes the government more powerful - which is the whole point behind gun-control laws.

i now know why americans kill each other.. they are all a bunch of fucking psychos that make everyone around them want to kill them!

give them all guns.. who cares if they kill each other.. not me!

do me a favour psycho.. if youre brave enough.. you walk around fully loaded everywhere you go.. and when you see trouble, be it in a bank, or a cafe, or a cinema.. you just start shooting ok? and dont stop until youve no bullets left..

"i think the definition of psycho and retard are fairly well established and easy to diagnose."

In a socialist country, if they made a law to give everyone their "fair monthly share of wealth" what the hell would that mean? $1000? $10? $1? Whoever has the power to define that WILL decide whether you'll be able to eat this month or not.

You don't know real psychos - many can act very well! One can come out of the mental institution with the medics' compliments and then start a killing spree with an illegal gun bought off the streets.

"its up to you to decide who should do the classifying if youre against the government doing it.."

I don't have the answer, except: Governments failed. Big time. This much I know.

"some control.. at the very least, is better than none..."

There is no thing such as "a bit of wildfire" - once it's well light-up, you can't stop it alone. And it takes a freakin' bloody revolution to stop a mad government that disarmed its own population. The end result would be far more deaths than caused by leaving things as they are.

193200, people should get something like a "cop course" that turns a man or woman into a responsible weapon user.

Having a weapon without gun training or courage does no good.

You want more gun-control; I want more gun-education, which is the REAL and lasting answer to the problem. Many problems can be prevented by gun-education. And fearmongering is NOT gun-education.

The common person must know how to behave in every situation, unarmed or not. How to discourage criminals before they even think to act; how to quickly and carefully assess the situation; how to avoid becoming a hostage and how to behave in the presence of hostages; when it's time to uncover your weapon and shoot, and when it's time to leave it concealed and "do as he says".

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