My other query with the vehicle mounted Mgs is that they are no where near as effective as normal infantry MGs. surely in a tank where the gunner is nice and safe from normal bullets and shrapnel he would be able to aim better than his infantry counterpart laying / sitting in the relative open.

Perhaps the lack of visibility in a tank can account for this. but what about the MGs on Half tracks? They are at 1/40 unless you dismount them when they become 3/60?

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My aim in life is to P*ss off one person a day. Currently I am 3 years 1 month and 23 days ahead of schedule.

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We are all above the line of normality. Its just we all draw the line at a different level

My other query with the vehicle mounted Mgs is that they are no where near as effective as normal infantry MGs. surely in a tank where the gunner is nice and safe from normal bullets and shrapnel he would be able to aim better than his infantry counterpart laying / sitting in the relative open.

Perhaps the lack of visibility in a tank can account for this. but what about the MGs on Half tracks? They are at 1/40 unless you dismount them when they become 3/60?

you're right about the field of view - it's dreadful for a coax / bow MG. The infantry MG gunner has a much better view of the world.

I think the exam question is "what was wrong with MGs in BKCII?" - for 1/2 tracks - nothing. The rules worked fine didn't they?

I'd be more interested to know if proper suppressive fire is making a come back?

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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”

roof mtd hmgs are often solely for AA use. you have to leave the turret of a honey to use the 30 cal!

also, if the commander is doing that, then he's not guiding the fire and selecting targets for the gunner / other crew members. I'd ignore roof mtd AA mgs.

I was thinking the Pulpit MG in the M3/M5 Half track or the infantry MG mounted on an SDKFZ 251. This cpould be taken with the infantry when they left the vehicle when it becomes AP 3/60

But your right. it works fine in BKC2 also we do not know the rationale behind the authors thinking. it might just have been to simplify things and make the game more playable/ realistic, otherwise some idiot rule lawyer will buy loads of half tracks and no infantry as it gives him more firepower for the points

You can always bring in a house rule. Its not worth changing the main rules for

« Last Edit: 05 December 2018, 09:55:40 PM by Orcs »

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My aim in life is to P*ss off one person a day. Currently I am 3 years 1 month and 23 days ahead of schedule.

The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

We are all above the line of normality. Its just we all draw the line at a different level

I was looking to establish some sort of working system that would allow me to introduce a few new varients into the lists - such as the Recce Stuart - without the turret but with an MG; or the Armoured Recon Jeep with a mounted o.50cal as part of a Recce Support platoon.

I appreciate the work (Orc especially) as all the variants of the Early War British tanks have been really taxing my brain.

Also Dr Dave - Suppression Fire is back - partly because I am trying to look for Core 'Commander' mechanisms that can be transposed across all 3 rules variants, and that is most certainly one of them.

I plod merrily onwards through the lists ... I am not 100% convinced we'll get them 100% right (as I have said to Leon), I'd personally prefer them all in a downloadable PDF off the Pendraken website, rather than in printed hard copy. As looking back through the old Forum it is the lists that seem to get the greatest hammering and the most need for change. But I gather that having them printed in the back of the book is what has been requested by popular demand.

I don't think the German LMG would dismount as anything other than one more bit of kit in a standard infantry platoon.

I'm not aware of them being formed into machine gun platoons.

Happy to get evidence I'm wrong, of course.

No idea of Western Allied doctrine, I'm still largely deployed on the Eastern Front

My point was that the mg on the German half track was the squad MG mounted on the vehicle and it gets AP of 1/40 . Exactly the same gun mounted on a tripod gets an AP of 3/60 Both have the same visibility and the halftrack surely has the ability to carry more ammo.

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My aim in life is to P*ss off one person a day. Currently I am 3 years 1 month and 23 days ahead of schedule.

The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

We are all above the line of normality. Its just we all draw the line at a different level

Jerry might take the rear mg mount off his 251, not the front (shielded) one.

Most British 1/2 tracks are the straight variant (not A1) and so have no pulpit mg anyway.

Good to have the bkc1 suppressive fire back. That way Vickers Lts and PzI can have a role in a tank battle.

I’d just be wary of counting MGs and think more about how was the vehicle used. Recce Honeys are precisely that, just a recce platform for sneaking and peeking. Not really a mobile heavy MG carrier - I thought that they were already in the lists anyway.

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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”

Personally, I think pretty much of all of the BKCII stats work as they are. There are exceptions of course, as the recent discussion on BEF CS Support tanks has shown. So I think those 'errors' that are known need fixing and then, famous last words, everything should be fine...

Personally, I think pretty much of all of the BKCII stats work as they are. There are exceptions of course, as the recent discussion on BEF CS Support tanks has shown. So I think those 'errors' that are known need fixing and then, famous last words, everything should be fine...

Agreed.

I’d beware the tail wagging the dog

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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”

So from this article we can deduce that bow machine guns were almost ineffective, The threat of them being there was probably as effective in deterring opposing infantry as any firing they may have done.

It seems strange that the powers that be did not take this as a reason to reduce the crew by one, and use the space gained to improve the tank in other ways.

From my reading of accounts in the Western desert crews were often short manned and it was the bow Machine gunner that was most often left unmanned, particularly as this and the driver position were impossible to bale out from if the gun was pointing over the hatch.

I would still like to see the MKVl given a beter AP rating of 2/60 as its considerably more powerful than the Pz1 that gets 2/40

So it would seem that an AP of 1/40 is correct for ant tank with a bow machine gun.

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My aim in life is to P*ss off one person a day. Currently I am 3 years 1 month and 23 days ahead of schedule.

The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

We are all above the line of normality. Its just we all draw the line at a different level