Active Member

Was in HMV today and one of the store bods was telling me they are building a new pressing plant for vinyl.You can still get the top 40 for around £12.99 and they are selling more today than they were 5 years ago.

I remember when i got rid of my old record deck,always though it sounded better,its just cd is more practical.

Is there any scientific reason why vinyl should sound better than cd,or is it just a case of the older you get,the better it used to be.

Member

i think cd sounds better as long as it's mastered properly, but you get that 'earthy' sound from vinyl, and its much better for dj'ing, it made me cringe seeing the dj's at a local club popping on winamp with an mp3 playlist, and even showing the visualisations on a big pj screen.. i mean i could do that! why do they pay these guys?

Well-known Member

They say a top vinyl player is better than ANY cd player. sa frien of mine has a Michel gyrodec/ Shure cartrdge and that sound very beguiling compared to his cd player but then the latter is a very ordinary one so comparisons arent reasonable. some people maintain that Valvbe amps sound better than transistor ones . I have both and i wopulkd say they sound different. Currently I am using a transistor one which I am quite happy with. I suppoae my advice would be if you like vinyl then buy the very best player you can afford otherwise stick with cds- they are much more convenient and you dont get any clicks and pops.The Gyrodec is topnotch but costs more than a grand plus cartridge. Ohter good ones are made by Clearaudio and Nottingham Analogue.At hte lower end you could consider Rega or Project.As always the chief advice is go and listen from a reputable dealer before buying.

I am both a British person and a European.No one has the right to make me choose one over the other

Well-known Member

In principle, a well mastered and pressed record on good quality equipment may well sound better due to its analogue nature rather than processing in the digital domain, naturally this brings other problems such as noise levels. Of course vinyl also has a more tactile element to it which some people appreciate.

Personally, I'd be lost without skip, shuffle and a more convenient media size with negligible degradation over time.

AVF Reviewer

This thread is interesting as I bought four new pieces of vinyl last weekend and I've got an MF XLP stage sat in my bag for a test this evening- which since writing that has transpired to be dead . I personally feel that it is entirely dependent on the album- the more analogue its origins, the more likely it will sound better in the analogue domain (I will point out at this point that given that my CD player has a valve in it so I don't really do true "digital"!). Thus I bought Bloc Party's Silent Alarm on vinyl and Daft Punk's Human After All on CD.

I suppose the clincher for me is that I can't listen to older music like Little Feat, ZZ Top, Marvyn Gaye and Jimi Hendrix on CD if I have the option of listening to it on vinyl. Therefore the black stuff will be in my collection for a while yet!

There were too many of us, we had access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by little we went insane.

Well-known Member

Vinyl can sound better but you have to spend a lot more cash and time setting things up properly. Also much more care and careful handling and cleaning of the records was needed. CD however, managable, convenient and portable, it was no contest in the format war.

Well-known Member

Vinyl can sound better but you have to spend a lot more cash and time setting things up properly. Also much more care and careful handling and cleaning of the records was needed. CD however, managable, convenient and portable, it was no contest in the format war.

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Exactly. However, its not just about ergonomics. A senior Pioneer exec was caught (on record!), admitting a few years back, that despite the release of high res formats and multi format machines (one of which he was at the launch for), that Vinyl is the superior source. If you want the best reproduction, then Vinyl is the way. If you want (as 95% of music buyers do) an easy to use format, that produces pretty good sound with good recordings, than CD is still the majority choice.

I wouldn't agree though you have to spend more to get better results with vinyl. Check out a few threads in the hifi section here, and they give price band checks for both Vinyl and CD. It's often cheaper to buy a quality vinyl
alternative.......... On the cleaning side though, well, CD any day!!

more convenient media size with negligible degradation over time

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Fraid' not. Damaged vinyl is playable, I have CD's that are not. The trick? Don't lend them out! I also have a couple with the dreaded discolouration which savagely reduces their lifespan.

Just enjoy the music now.

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That, my friend, is good advice.

"The avatar is William Ewart Gladstone, and I should think he's turning, nay spinning in his grave right now".

Moderator

Some of the vnayl was real crap in the 70's but about 10 years back I got picked up a lot of records brand new a stall holder was able to get hold of just before they stoped producing and they was some of the best I have.

Guest

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned 8 track cartridges! Never see them fitted as standard these days, they must be due for a retro come back.

Seriously though, it must be subjective. A CD is undoubtedly more durable and convenient but you can't beat the feel of a vinyl record. I still have about 8 feet width of vinyl but they are gradually being ripped to mp3

Active Member

This thread is interesting as I bought four new pieces of vinyl last weekend and I've got an MF XLP stage sat in my bag for a test this evening- which since writing that has transpired to be dead .

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Serves you right for getting to it before I did..........

As anyone who has ever had the painful experience of listening to me prattle on will know, i am a big vinyl fan. Of course there are scientific arguments both ways (vinyl has an infinite sampling rate and a better frequency range, CD has less distortion and is much easier to use blah blah............).

After much listening to both formats, I have come up with the following theories -

1 - The difference in sound quality between a £200 CD player and a £2000 one is much less than that between a £200 turntable and a £2000 one.

2 - CD is undoubtedly more convenient unless you can find an ADC Accutrac 4000 or similar which is remote controllable, programmable and plays LP tracks in any order (and first appeared in 1976!! )

3 - It takes more work to make sure a turntable sounds better than a comparable CD player.

4 - It's worth the effort!!

Digital downloads - perfect for children and other people who can't be trusted with delicate objects!

Novice Member

Not sure about being able to get the Top 40 on vinyl but I know that most DJ's use vinyl for a number of reasons, cheap decks, extra remixes, easier manipulation etc and this is one of ther reasons why HMV and Virgin have got huge sections dedicated to vinyl. Modern CD decks are catching up though with platters on the top to scratch with but these are about £700 for one deck whereas you can get 2 top quality vinyl decks for that price.

CD can also give a distinct digital sound about it whereas vinyl has a warmer sound.

Well-known Member

I am off analogue on two counts
a) I bought a TT I thought at the time was high end . They subsequently went out of production and the clown who designed them doesnt even supply parts . Alphason Sonata.
b) I bought a cartridge from Eminent Audio who assured me was a Music Maker of few hours use for £ 250. I learnt later that it was Grado Black- cost £45

I am both a British person and a European.No one has the right to make me choose one over the other

one lives and learns! I was stupid in the extreme putting my trust in someone I didnt know.I was so impressed by the sound produced by his gear at Heathrow show( Croift, Loth TT and hornloadeed speakers)I put my trust in him entirely. Even went to the trouble of taking all my gear to his Demo room(private house) near Reditch. Grrr! .I have blackened his name ever since and am glad to say that some dealers have seen him for the charalatan he really is and no longer stock the goods he markets. What really hacks me off though is that those goods are very very good. Glen Croft cannot seem to see that this jerk is a ( censored)

I am both a British person and a European.No one has the right to make me choose one over the other

Well-known Member

A truly superb turntable IMHO. It was hand built and so a stock of spare parts was always going to be highly unlikely. What's wrong with it?

Caveat Emptor.....................

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nothing as yet, just lack of spares such as belts and the spindle spacer which I mislaid. To be frank it was my experiences with the cartridge which turned me off vinyl more than the TT. I am not the best person to align the blessed things either as my fingers are simply not nimble enough( mind you I dont know how critical this is). I may learn to loove it again one day.Thats was another thing the bloke at Eminent Audio rubbished it saying that suspended subchassis were a bad idea.

I am both a British person and a European.No one has the right to make me choose one over the other

Well-known Member

Funny thing is that t bought it from a dealer in london( I think they were called Image audio nad based in southall) played it for a time then decided to take it manufacturer to have a Xenon arm fitted. Mike knowles( I think thats his name) the owner of Alphason informed there was no power supply within the deck in fact he thought it was a half way house between th originbal deck ( with in built PS) and the newer one with off board PS . Anyway he sold me an alchaeus
I recently learnt that Origin live can supply very good PSs which I am told make far of a difference than any cartridge or arm. Might consider that mod but it is expensive-£450 I think.After my experiences with EA I'm a bit reluctant though

I am both a British person and a European.No one has the right to make me choose one over the other

Guest

Vinyl has a frequency range of up to around 23khz with a 'slope' affect where its frequency response falls after the peak,

With CD, there is a 'brickwall' filter which means nothing above a certain frequency will get past (about 22 kHz)

Although human hearing is alegedly only around 20Hz - 20kHz (16kHz for most of us ) its been proven that we can detect information up to 26kHz which can go towards explaining why vinyl has much more 'atmosphere' or 'presence'- for want of a better word.

CD replay has to counteract 'jitter', RF interference and allsorts of other stuff before it gets to your ears. And for vinyl, you have bad earthing, bearing noise, dust on the needle, worn records and so on.

Back in the olden days of analog, mixing decks had just as good a frequency range as modern digital stuff, they were only limited by source material.

The recorders at the time could in theory go up to about 27khz, microphones about 23khz or so.

Now, in the cynical 21st century, we have the capability of mixing up to just about any frequency we like (whether its there in the original recording or not). Unfortunately, most music is mixed to a very compressed format to meet the demands of radio, mp3 and so on. This can lead to a very unsatisfactory noise!

A few bands still make the most of there recordings, Massive Attack are well known for this. Indeed, you can look for this yourself if you have access to an oscillascope, you can rig it up to catch the 'squaring off' of peaks on a recording that should, if correctly mixed/mastered, have nice round peaks. You will find that alot of recordings 'clip' badly or contain a lot of distortion that really makes listening to new stuff, awfull.

Music on DVD seems to have been looked after, I prefer albums on DVD over CD, you get to watch the videos too..

Now, this is only from my own experience, after working as an accoustic tech at Wharfedale and after my helpdesk stint at TAG McLaren Audio, so apologies if some of the technical details are inaccurate.

Well-known Member

Whilst having no scientific background to back up what I am saying and not actually currently owning a turn table at the moment - still trying to decide what do do about a phono stage as my Cyrus doesnt have one BUT....

To me it seems logical that given a) musical instruments/ vocals are 'analogue' (with few exceptios) b) speakers output in 'analogue' that it is obvious that the 'analogue' nature of vinyl is going to be acoustically better.

CDs have certainly got benefits over vinyl - and MP3s benefits over CDs - but for a pure "what sounds better" then vinyl has to have it. Obviously the old "garbage in = garbage out" holds true for what ever medium is used but all else being equal my vote goes with vinyl - plus I am too young for it to be misplaced nostalga