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to "jc" & other posters. I looked up this book on Amazon to get a variety of readers' review, and lo and behold, they were almost all 5 star positive reviews. I read many of them and they do seem to have a point.

As most of you know, I am a believer of a low carb, restricted calorie, and exercise approach to diabetes FOR ME. One of the health doctors whose works I regular read states that there are different strokes for different folks, He suggests that people first determine whether their bodies prefer mostly carbs, mostly protein, or a mix, and tailor their diets accordingly.

I am very interested in seeing how this approach works out for jc. Many of us are on opposite sides of calorie counting in grams vs. generous portion allotments. Maybe there are other ideas also.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

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13 Replies |Watch This Discussion | Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"to "jc" & other posters. I looked up this book on Amazon to get a variety of readers' review, and lo and behold, they were almost all 5 star positive reviews. I read many of them and they do seem to have a point.

As most of you know, I am a believer of a low carb, restricted calorie, and exercise approach to diabetes FOR ME. One of the health doctors whose works I regular read states that there are different strokes for different folks, He suggests that people first determine whether their bodies prefer mostly carbs, mostly protein, or a mix, and tailor their diets accordingly.

I am very interested in seeing how this approach works out for jc. Many of us are on opposite sides of calorie counting in grams vs. generous portion allotments. Maybe there are other ideas also.

While I have a great deal of respect for Dr. John McDougal, David Mendosa's comments on "The Starch Solution" summarizes my own viewpoint:

"Starch in its pure form is a white, odorless, tasteless, carbohydrate powder," admits Dr. John McDougall. This is the guy who writes in his forthcoming book, The Starch Solution , that, "The proper diet for human beings is based on starches. The more rice, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and beans you eat, the trimmer and healthier you will be."

But not for human beings who have diabetes. I followed his high-carb McDougall Plan diet a decade ago, and my weight ballooned up to 312 pounds. Now, on a very low-carb diet my weight and A1C levels are each about half of what they were on his plan.

... The five food groups that Dr. McDougall named, and which I cite above, are a good place for people with diabetes to start to eliminate from our diets. But he left out the most important one, wheat and wheat products, as I wrote in my review here, Lose Your Wheat Belly for Diabetes Health .

Flute, like yourself, I favor a low-carb approach coupled with lots of exercise/activity. Even using multiple daily injections of insulin, diet and exercise still play dominant roles in keeping my blood glucose levels in the "true normal" range (i.e., FBG under 100 and A1c of 5.4 or less). The hyper-inflated blood glucose levels that many in the medical community try to pass off as being "normal" (i.e., A1c <7.0) are complications-inducing levels in terms of net actual outcomes and, in my own personal opinion, is doing untold harm to their patients. But what do I know! I only know that "true normal" works for me and about a dozen other people that have sought advice and followed my example.

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"While I have a great deal of respect for Dr. John McDougal, David Mendosa's comments on "The Starch Solution" summarizes my own viewpoint:

"Starch in its pure form is a white, odorless, tasteless, carbohydrate powder," admits Dr. John McDougall. This is the guy who writes in his forthcoming book, The Starch Solution , that, "The proper diet for human beings is based on starches. The more rice, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and beans you eat, the trimmer and healthier you will be."

But not for human beings who have diabetes. I followed his high-carb McDougall Plan diet a decade ago, and my weight ballooned up to 312 pounds. Now, on a very low-carb diet my weight and A1C levels are each about half of what they were on his plan.

... The five food groups that Dr. McDougall named, and which I cite above, are a good place for people with diabetes to start to eliminate from our diets. But he left out the most important one, wheat and wheat products, as I wrote in my review here, Lose Your Wheat Belly for Diabetes Health .

Flute, like yourself, I favor a low-carb approach coupled with lots of exercise/activity. Even using multiple daily injections of insulin, diet and exercise still play dominant roles in keeping my blood glucose levels in the "true normal" range (i.e., FBG under 100 and A1c of 5.4 or less). The hyper-inflated blood glucose levels that many in the medical community try to pass off as being "normal" (i.e., A1c <7.0) are complications-inducing levels in terms of net actual outcomes and, in my own personal opinion, is doing untold harm to their patients. But what do I know! I only know that "true normal" works for me and about a dozen other people that have sought advice and followed my example.

Starch in its pure form is not what Dr. McDougall recommends as a diet. He definitely does not recommend, for instance, cornstarch without the germ or the bran but whole corn. Or white Wonder Bread made with wheat lacking the germ or bran. He does recommend sweet potatoes which at one time were eaten in large quantities by Okinawans, among the world's longest lived people. And even white potatoes.

I personally eat more of the maximum weight loss plan which uses a larger proportion of non starchy vegetables to starches. Some who eat McDougall have interpreted the advice to eat until you are satisfied to eat all you want. Some do this and claim they lose lots and lots of weight. I often think that perhaps they do not actually want as much as I do!!

I seem to remember that Mr. Mendosa said he really lost a lot of weight when he started to use byetta. He has maintained his weight loss. I eat a low fat vegan diet and do not use multiple injections of insulin or any meds. I have lost weight and maintained normal sugar levels on the five foods which Mr. Mendosa says diabetics shouldn't eat. But this is diabetes and who knows what tomorrow will bring?

I do think it is incumbent upon everyone who tries a particular diet to look for something different if that diet does not maintain health.

Dolores

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"Starch in its pure form is not what Dr. McDougall recommends as a diet. He definitely does not recommend, for instance, cornstarch without the germ or the bran but whole corn. Or white Wonder Bread made with wheat lacking the germ or bran. He does recommend sweet potatoes which at one time were eaten in large quantities by Okinawans, among the world's longest lived people. And even white potatoes.

I personally eat more of the maximum weight loss plan which uses a larger proportion of non starchy vegetables to starches. Some who eat McDougall have interpreted the advice to eat until you are satisfied to eat all you want. Some do this and claim they lose lots and lots of weight. I often think that perhaps they do not actually want as much as I do!!

I seem to remember that Mr. Mendosa said he really lost a lot of weight when he started to use byetta. He has maintained his weight loss. I eat a low fat vegan diet and do not use multiple injections of insulin or any meds. I have lost weight and maintained normal sugar levels on the five foods which Mr. Mendosa says diabetics shouldn't eat. But this is diabetes and who knows what tomorrow will bring?

I do think it is incumbent upon everyone who tries a particular diet to look for something different if that diet does not maintain health.

To NutriJoy, Years ago, in trying to lose weight and get healthier (I was much heavier than now, and had not been diagnosed even with pre-diabetes as the cutoff numbers were much higher) I follow Dean Ornish's plan of a lot of complex carbs. I ended up with triglycerides above 400!

I didn't start cutting carbs until I was introduced to Barry Sears' "Zone" books and immediately started getting in shape. Again, different strokes for different folks. I, like you, still do well with the low-carb approach.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"To NutriJoy, Years ago, in trying to lose weight and get healthier (I was much heavier than now, and had not been diagnosed even with pre-diabetes as the cutoff numbers were much higher) I follow Dean Ornish's plan of a lot of complex carbs. I ended up with triglycerides above 400!

I didn't start cutting carbs until I was introduced to Barry Sears' "Zone" books and immediately started getting in shape. Again, different strokes for different folks. I, like you, still do well with the low-carb approach.

If your FBG is in the mid 80s and your A1C is below 5....and your get to the point where meds are not necessary then I would stick with your approach because its working for you.

Or even if you just feel good,you are sleeping well,your vit D levels are OK then stick with your plan...but if not... its worth giving the starch approach a try....just do it right.

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"If your FBG is in the mid 80s and your A1C is below 5....and your get to the point where meds are not necessary then I would stick with your approach because its working for you.

Or even if you just feel good,you are sleeping well,your vit D levels are OK then stick with your plan...but if not... its worth giving the starch approach a try....just do it right.

Starch Solution? Give me a break, it sounds like the low fat diet solutions of the 90's, and we know where that went. Most of us have found that in the long run, we are starch intolerant. Not carb, but starch those servings of high glucose convertible carbohydrates that will sit in your stomach like a lump, and go through your system like lightning. I'm not impressed.

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"Starch Solution? Give me a break, it sounds like the low fat diet solutions of the 90's, and we know where that went. Most of us have found that in the long run, we are starch intolerant. Not carb, but starch those servings of high glucose convertible carbohydrates that will sit in your stomach like a lump, and go through your system like lightning. I'm not impressed.

If there are people who can't eat potatoes or rice etc then they just can't. However, do not confuse the McDougall or Esselstyn diet with the "solutions" of the nineties. If you remember, the food manufacturers got involved and frankenfoods like Snackwells were flying off the shelves. Even Dr. Ornish said in one of his books that some of his patients proudly told him they weren't eating fat but mentioned eating, instead, unrefined junk.

Dolores

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"If there are people who can't eat potatoes or rice etc then they just can't. However, do not confuse the McDougall or Esselstyn diet with the "solutions" of the nineties. If you remember, the food manufacturers got involved and frankenfoods like Snackwells were flying off the shelves. Even Dr. Ornish said in one of his books that some of his patients proudly told him they weren't eating fat but mentioned eating, instead, unrefined junk.

betatoo,its just not true.A proper starch diet works and you can likely convince yourself with a 2 week trial.Its fat that causes insulin not to work at the cellular level and low fat will clear that up.Read all of the postings on this subject before you give it a try to be sure you do it right.

Once you actually try it you will be impressed.

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"betatoo,its just not true.A proper starch diet works and you can likely convince yourself with a 2 week trial.Its fat that causes insulin not to work at the cellular level and low fat will clear that up.Read all of the postings on this subject before you give it a try to be sure you do it right.

Dolores,The only way for someone to be convinced is to actually try the diet for a few weeks and see if it really works.You probably remember when I tried the high fat low carb diet...it did not take long to see it would not work for me.... but I suppose its possible it may work for some others.

If the diet someone is on has their FBG down to the mid 80s and their A1C is below 5 and they are totally off medications then I can see little reason for them to try a starch diet because they are clearly successful with their approach..But if thats not the case it would be in their best interest to at least see if this will work for them.Just keep track of blood glucose levels to insure prigress is being made.

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"Dolores,The only way for someone to be convinced is to actually try the diet for a few weeks and see if it really works.You probably remember when I tried the high fat low carb diet...it did not take long to see it would not work for me.... but I suppose its possible it may work for some others.

If the diet someone is on has their FBG down to the mid 80s and their A1C is below 5 and they are totally off medications then I can see little reason for them to try a starch diet because they are clearly successful with their approach..But if thats not the case it would be in their best interest to at least see if this will work for them.Just keep track of blood glucose levels to insure prigress is being made.

Hmmm. . . . I have been the low fat, moderate starch and veggie diets, back in 98-99. My triglycerides were high, and my cholesterol was also. Went the on the diet to lower them, only got worse. Went back to research, and tried the low carb diets that were not Atkins, more moderate. Triglycerides dropped like a stone as did the cholesterol. After a few years went back to more carbs, and eating poorly, but not on junk food, just at poor meal spacing. Diabetes. 3 months later I was told "I don't know hat you did, but keep it up because I don't believe you'll ever have to take medication for your diabetes". So why in sam H would I?

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"Hmmm. . . . I have been the low fat, moderate starch and veggie diets, back in 98-99. My triglycerides were high, and my cholesterol was also. Went the on the diet to lower them, only got worse. Went back to research, and tried the low carb diets that were not Atkins, more moderate. Triglycerides dropped like a stone as did the cholesterol. After a few years went back to more carbs, and eating poorly, but not on junk food, just at poor meal spacing. Diabetes. 3 months later I was told "I don't know hat you did, but keep it up because I don't believe you'll ever have to take medication for your diabetes". So why in sam H would I?

Well, good luck to you. I hope your new diet works for you. But I haven't really read too much about this diet to put my bet on it. I've been working on a low-carb, very high-protein diet now, paleodiet? Have you guys heard of that. It takes so much less effort than any other diets that I've tried, it has gone as far as not even considering it a diet, more like a change of meal plans without sacrificing as much.

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"Well, good luck to you. I hope your new diet works for you. But I haven't really read too much about this diet to put my bet on it. I've been working on a low-carb, very high-protein diet now, paleodiet? Have you guys heard of that. It takes so much less effort than any other diets that I've tried, it has gone as far as not even considering it a diet, more like a change of meal plans without sacrificing as much.

It looks like a hornet's nest got stirred up on this post. I was just interested in seeing in results in the futere from "jc" and this diet. I for one, am sticking by my adequate protein, low carbs, good fats, and plenty of exercise plan.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"It looks like a hornet's nest got stirred up on this post. I was just interested in seeing in results in the futere from "jc" and this diet. I for one, am sticking by my adequate protein, low carbs, good fats, and plenty of exercise plan.

I would be the last to say you should change if your diets are working and you are totally off of medication,feeling good,and sleeping well....and your cholesterol and blood pressure are good.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

But my diet works for many in Asia and other areas of the world where there is no diabetes.But in the industrial areas of Asia where they have adopted the westen diets diabetes has cropped up.In the areas where all they eat is starch(usually rice)they have not even heard of diabetes.So clearly it does work but I will agree its a different thing to think someone who has eaten a western diet all thie life can make a sudden change and it will cure diabetes.I think the evidence shows that it does but it will take years of more data to prove it 100%

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Report This| Share this:"The Starch Solution"I would be the last to say you should change if your diets are working and you are totally off of medication,feeling good,and sleeping well....and your cholesterol and blood pressure are good.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

But my diet works for many in Asia and other areas of the world where there is no diabetes.But in the industrial areas of Asia where they have adopted the westen diets diabetes has cropped up.In the areas where all they eat is starch(usually rice)they have not even heard of diabetes.So clearly it does work but I will agree its a different thing to think someone who has eaten a western diet all thie life can make a sudden change and it will cure diabetes.I think the evidence shows that it does but it will take years of more data to prove it 100%

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