"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

Found the finale very frustrating in it's glaring plotholes due to not knowing how they were going to end the show until the night before, and the constant hammering of square pegs into round holes because they ran out of time.

Best show on TV for the first 3 seasons, diminishing returns for Season Four.

Important Note: Producer Ron Moore has admitted they backtracked and didn't know how the show was going to end until the script was due in several interviews, so I'm not making that one up.

Worst Misstep: The identity of the final five, because they clearly weren't Cylons until the end of the 3rd season.

Best part: The first Two seasons. Hard to find a bad episode in there.

Well, some of those plotholes, specifically as to the "five," might be cleared up in the upcoming (fall, I think) 2 hr. "Battlestar Galactica, the Plan" (supposedly from the Cylon pov) and new series, Caprica, which deals with a time roughly 50 years prior to the war. (I gather an 11 year old Bill Adama is a character) Apparently this show deals with the genesis of the skinjobs or at least skinjob technology. And, no, I don't know how skinjobs could have been around for thousands of years if my understanding of this series is accurate.

I'll admit that the last couple of seasons seemed to somewhat stagnate in comparison with the first 3. On the whole though, this was searingly compelling television with great writing for the most part.

I, for one, am in to the scifi genre---it's a shame that more non-sci-fi types didn't get into this show because it compares favorably to many of the greatest dramas in the history of television.

Yeah, it's as dark, gritty and, yes, depressing I suppose as television gets. I respect the fact that some folks are not into that sort of thing. Of course, I also respect the fact that because I like the show I'm not necessarily dark, gritty and depressing myself. Well, I'll go with "gritty."

I had no problem with the ending of the show, it was how they got to that ending.

Out of 38,000+ people, not one of them raised their hand and said, "Excuse me, I like flush toilets and weatherproof walls. You go be a farmer, I'm building a modern plumbing town right here."

It's not like there's a military left to stop them. It was stupid. It's an easy fix, which is what made it even more frustrating for me.

Easy fix: "Sir, our technology is about worn out and we don't have the facilities or the raw materials to replace it. We better teach everyone how to become farmers because all our tech is toast in about six months." (By the way, Galactica can't have been the only ship just about ready to fall apart after all the jumps and abuse of the last few seasons)

As for the final five, that was retconning at its worst and I doubt "The Plan" will be able to fix that. But no big deal, the show's legacy is secure. I put this show just below B5 on my all time favorite sci-fi show list. B5 gets the nod because it had the better ending (to me) and because the Londo/G'Kar stuff is endlessly watchable.

justmebd wrote:I had no problem with the ending of the show, it was how they got to that ending.

Out of 38,000+ people, not one of them raised their hand and said, "Excuse me, I like flush toilets and weatherproof walls. You go be a farmer, I'm building a modern plumbing town right here."

It's not like there's a military left to stop them. It was stupid. It's an easy fix, which is what made it even more frustrating for me.

Easy fix: "Sir, our technology is about worn out and we don't have the facilities or the raw materials to replace it. We better teach everyone how to become farmers because all our tech is toast in about six months." (By the way, Galactica can't have been the only ship just about ready to fall apart after all the jumps and abuse of the last few seasons)

As for the final five, that was retconning at its worst and I doubt "The Plan" will be able to fix that. But no big deal, the show's legacy is secure. I put this show just below B5 on my all time favorite sci-fi show list. B5 gets the nod because it had the better ending (to me) and because the Londo/G'Kar stuff is endlessly watchable.

I watched it again on Friday evening when they replayed it so that I could really decide if I liked how they brought it to a close or not. The story at least in the last episode was good but I agree the way they got to the final episode was downright disappointing. The way they handled the whole final five in the last few weeks was what I was most upset about. There were very little surprises and it seemed to drag on a little. We'll see what this "Plan" is all about. I hope it doesn't take too long to tie everything together at least from the BG series but maybe that will be the point of the new series.

Just read an interview with Grace Park (lost the link) and she talks about "The Plan." It sounds like what my initial thought on it was -- retconning. Not that I'm already hammering the nails into the coffin, but it is what it is.

About halfway through the last season, I flipped past Peter David's blog and he made a great observation. The opening title sequence for most of the series ended with ". . .And they have a plan"

David felt after all the big reveals that the line should have been expanded to add, " . . . it just wasn't a very good one."

My understanding is that the writer for B5 knew how long he would write the series and was able to keep his story arc on track. He also knew how it would end from the beginning.

Lost has had an idea for how it would end, but didn't know WHEN it would end. Once the producers got the 6 season run time, it seems the show has picked back up.

I'm not sure the BSG people had any kind of storyline arc - the father of Hera was suppsed to die off screen in the miniseries. I think it unlikely they ever had an idea as to how long the show would run. It was very expensive to produce and was a money loser for Sci-Fi. I recall them annoucing shortly before season 4 that it would be the final one. Then they had no clear idea if they would be back following the writers strike - the midseason cliff hanger was written to be a season finale if need be.

If there was a fifth season, the writers may have been able to wrap it up better.

I'm a bit odd in that I only saw 5 or 6 episodes on TV. Shortly after season 3 finished broadcasting, I bought the miniseries dvds. I immediately bought season 1 & 2. At which point season 3 was available for purchase on itunes. So I shotgunned the first three seasons in about 2 months. I watched most of season 4 on hulu.

Always liked the writing and the characters. The science fiction could get a little stretched at times.Enjoyed the show immensely and thought the finale wrapped things up nicely.

Not a real big fan of the Final Five once it was revealed. Looking back at how season 4 wrapped up, they probably didn't need them as a plot device at all. The colonists could have kept following the clues to the first Earth they found without the need for the Final Five remembering a Bob Dylan song. The story arc could have gone forth from there about as it played out - continuing on, Hera being kidnapped and then rescued. All without the Final Five.

You're correct on B5 and Lost. JMS knew the entire story from beginning to end and how long it would take to complete when they started production on the Pilot. He even left himself a bunch of trapdoors in the event there were changes in the cast (which there several).

I recently re-watched some 1st and 2nd Season Lost and listened to commentaries, and the writers had a pretty good idea of the whole mythology from Episode One, but I don't believe it was all fleshed out until Season Two, and some of the lackluster episodes in the middle of Season One are evidence of the "wandering."

They didn't know when it was going to end, and then you got the first six-episode of arc of Season 3, which even the producers admit is horrible. So they got their end-date and the show has been awesome ever since.

As for BSG, Producer Ron Moore admitted in several interviews the changes they made along the way at the last minute and how they started writing the show in arcs, with no idea of how they were going to end it. (Unsaid: How they kept contradicting earlier plotlines and character arcs, but why get nitpicky now)

To sum up BSG seasons for the unitiated, I've put it like this:

Season One and Two: Awesome, some of the best sci-fi ever committed to film.Season Three: Uneven, cracks in the facade starting to showSeason Four: Ran completely off the rails. Very disappointing finish for a once great storyline.

The Final Five story arc was not necessary as depicted, it felt like it was hammered down our throats for no good reason. My personal view is that once the stunt casting was done with Lucy Lawless and Dean Stockwell, they felt like the final five had to be "Big." Truth is, they didn't. It just needed to be good, which it wasn't.

justmebd wrote:You're correct on B5 and Lost. JMS knew the entire story from beginning to end and how long it would take to complete when they started production on the Pilot. He even left himself a bunch of trapdoors in the event there were changes in the cast (which there several).

I recently re-watched some 1st and 2nd Season Lost and listened to commentaries, and the writers had a pretty good idea of the whole mythology from Episode One, but I don't believe it was all fleshed out until Season Two, and some of the lackluster episodes in the middle of Season One are evidence of the "wandering."

They didn't know when it was going to end, and then you got the first six-episode of arc of Season 3, which even the producers admit is horrible. So they got their end-date and the show has been awesome ever since.

As for BSG, Producer Ron Moore admitted in several interviews the changes they made along the way at the last minute and how they started writing the show in arcs, with no idea of how they were going to end it. (Unsaid: How they kept contradicting earlier plotlines and character arcs, but why get nitpicky now)

To sum up BSG seasons for the unitiated, I've put it like this:

Season One and Two: Awesome, some of the best sci-fi ever committed to film.Season Three: Uneven, cracks in the facade starting to showSeason Four: Ran completely off the rails. Very disappointing finish for a once great storyline.

The Final Five story arc was not necessary as depicted, it felt like it was hammered down our throats for no good reason. My personal view is that once the stunt casting was done with Lucy Lawless and Dean Stockwell, they felt like the final five had to be "Big." Truth is, they didn't. It just needed to be good, which it wasn't.

I hope that all made sense.

I agree with your analysis. I'm a SciFi junkie. Not necessarily the TV Network SciFi, however. They get fantasy and Science Fiction way too confused with each other.

The first season and a half were outstanding. Great Directing, great scripts, great acting. An enemy you could easily despise, good guys you could easily love. Then, after the writers strike, they got all goofy on us. Introducing whacko spirits and super natural this, that and the other, conflicting morals, and just generally screwing with a plot that didn't need screwed with.

When are TV writers going to understand -- We would much prefer to be entertained. We're not at all sure we're interested in the morality plays coming from the minds of young, never been anywhere, never gonna be anywhere, writers whose toughest challenge in life has been to decide on Pepperoni or Sausage Pizza.

I watched every episode except the one where Helen came back. Not sure I missed anything.

Great show. Great acting, great directing, great producing. Really, really, really bad story line.

B5 was great, too. But they ran out of money and ideas near the end. Far superior to BSG in writing and ideas. Inferior in acting and directing. I'd watch B5 ten to one over BSG again. Not even close.

I agree with your analysis. I'm a SciFi junkie. Not necessarily the TV Network SciFi, however. They get fantasy and Science Fiction way too confused with each other.

The first season and a half were outstanding. Great Directing, great scripts, great acting. An enemy you could easily despise, good guys you could easily love. Then, after the writers strike, they got all goofy on us. Introducing whacko spirits and super natural this, that and the other, conflicting morals, and just generally screwing with a plot that didn't need screwed with.

When are TV writers going to understand -- We would much prefer to be entertained. We're not at all sure we're interested in the morality plays coming from the minds of young, never been anywhere, never gonna be anywhere, writers whose toughest challenge in life has been to decide on Pepperoni or Sausage Pizza.

I watched every episode except the one where Helen came back. Not sure I missed anything.

Great show. Great acting, great directing, great producing. Really, really, really bad story line.

B5 was great, too. But they ran out of money and ideas near the end. Far superior to BSG in writing and ideas. Inferior in acting and directing. I'd watch B5 ten to one over BSG again. Not even close.[/quote]

The last season of B5 was a little uneven, but that was due to a lot of behind-the scenes stuff. The important thing was it ended on a high note the way JMS intended to end it. I have all of B5 on DVD and usually watch it about every 2-3 years all five seasons. While the FX are clearly dated, the storyline holds up great

Sorry to drag this off the scrap heap, but I just finished watching the series.

First, I thought the first 2 seasons, and the beginning of the 3rd, were fantastic. I thought the 4th was good, but not great. I'll agree with others that the final 5 were needlessly shoved down our throats.

I also thought the series could have ended after "Revelations", in which they found Earth. It would have been unbelievably depressing, and it would have pissed a LOT of people off, but I personally would have loved it.