Monthly Archives: October 2014

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Sunday, October 26, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty and on tonights show we’ll talk with George Hill about riots and what steps can be taken for personal security
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the attack on the Canadian Parliament.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and in one of our DGU’s we talk about a bad guy getting confronted by an armed citizen.. twice in one day.
Gary H: I’m Gary Harpster and we have a discussion about making your car ready for an emergency.
Gary D: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 279 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul Someone hit our pickup. – I love my 1911 and I love my Glock facebook sites. Go Fund Me for GRPC 2015 is now at $550 – thank you to everyone who has donated.

John – I didn’t get a chance to do any dry-fire practice this week. However, I did something even more important. I voted. Early voting started in North Carolina on Thursday and we voted on Saturday. I know a lot of people, gun people even, say that one vote doesn’t matter. They are wrong. I can name any number of major races where a handful of votes made the difference.

Rob- I had a ton of fun shooting IDPA yesterday. I did well. The last stage was taken from a backyard barbecue. The stage started with your hands buried in an ice chest. That was the moment three thugs attacked your guests from behind your back. You had to pull your hands out of the ice water, turn around, step around an innocent guest, then draw from concealment and engage three targets. I scored well and did not shoot the hostage! It was also so hot on the range that the ice-water felt good on my hands. 9 shots, four transitions in 7.4 seconds.

I overheard a father whisper to his son, “I won’t say a thing, but you have to explain to mom that you shot the unarmed hostage.”

For next week- I called a local range and asked for instruction. They asked me if I wanted to rent time in their simulator. I told them I wanted an instructor to help me improve my presentation from concealment. If the simulator is the best tool to do that, then fine, let’s use it. You could hear the light bulb go on in his head. It seems a lot of people want the simulator ride, but don’t really want instruction. I’ll meet with them next week.

I have to check all my mags because I had a failure to feed.

Break
advertisement ABNSeg 2- News
Where to start?
-This defensive gun use is so widely covered that we’re putting it in the news section. The attack on the Canadian Parliament took place a few minutes before our last episode. In that attack, a muslim terrorist attacked the Canadian war memorial where he shot a soldier who was part of the honor guard. The soldier was not armed and could not defend himself. The murderer then stole a limousine and drove to Parliament. The murderer was shot by Kevin Vickers. Vickers is the Parliament’s Sergeant at Arms. The gunmen threatened dozens of disarmed civilians. They were helpless to stop the murderer. Kevin Vickers was both armed and trained. Vickers saw the murderer’s gun stick out past a stone column. Vickers dove across the marble floor and slid on his back around the column under the gun. He fired upward at the murderer until the threat was stopped. Vickers was the former chief superintendent of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
comment- that is a hero.
comment- correction.. that is an ARMED hero.
Gary D- comment- I think that misses the point. The media will use any terrorist attack as a pretense to promote a larger government and limit our rights. The murderer used a lever action 30-30. The media will now treat all long arms as if they are the boogeyman “assault” long gun. A kids daisy bb gun is a long gun for crying out loud. The media will simply use this as another excuse to tell the public gun owners are evil.
John- I own a 30-30.
Rob- I held my friends lever action 45-70 the other day. Gary, let me hear your antacid pills. Breathe in, breathe out.

-An armed student attacked his cousins at a Washington school. The student was too young to own a firearm. He stole it from his father. The murderer took his own life when a teacher grabbed him. The anti-gunners will say we all need to be disarmed. If that is true, then why do they call the police when a crazy killer comes to school? I thought we were safer if we simply kept guns off campus?
Gary D- comment- another failed gun-free zone.
comment- DC city councilmen wanted to disarm the police.

-We do our best to bring you the news, but we missed this one. We had Miko Tempski on with us for the midweek show. He reported on the competing initiatives in Washington State. The initiatives have left some of the anti-rights groups in a passion. Police in Bellevue Washington are investigating a former Bellevue City councilwoman after she stole campaign signs for Initiative 591. That is the initiative that would limit required background checks for gun owners, and require that all background checks meet national standards.. 591 would also require that gun owners receive due process before their firearms are seized. Police submitted a report to the Bellevue City Attorney’s Office for a third-degree theft charge against the former city councilwoman, Margot Blacker. A man called Bellevue police saying he watched a woman stealing campaign signs, and he provided the license plate for Margot Blacker’s car and gave a physical description that matched Blacker.
comment- our betters know how we should live. Margot Blacker must be very frustrated by this messy democracy.
comment – Alan Gottlieb had a good response to it.

-There is always another excuse for the anti-rights groups to disarm innocent civilians. If one excuse doesn’t work, then they will find another excuse. Lead contamination is the latest rationalization to outlaw modern ammunition. We know that government money can pay for an academic study to say that black is white and hot is cold.
comment- you mean like the earth is warming?
Yes, like that. Now we see government money being paid to prove that lead is a danger, and that modern ammunition is the source of that lead contamination. It is a harder sell than you might think because the subject was studied before. Doctor John Lott recently pointed out where the Clinton administration dismissed concerns about lead poisoning from bullets. Lott reference three letters written in 1999 and 2000 by Dr. William L. Marcus. Doctor Marcus was the senior science adviser at the Environmental Protection Agency’s Office of Water. In those letters, Marcus wrote that the “assertion that the use of lead based ammunition is hazardous is in error,” as studies of adult shooters at outdoor ranges have not shown increased blood lead levels and those shooting at “indoor properly ventilated firing ranges have shown no increases in blood lead levels.”
comment- you won’t hear those reports from the Sierra Club
comment- or from a Bloomberg group.

-Drug cartels murdered another citizen journalist in Mexico. We reported where corrupt Mexican politicans ordered the police and drug gangs to murder political protesters. The protesters great sin was to protest a rally where the mayor’s wife spoke. Now, the drug gangs are murdering anyone who reports on such stories. None dare write, tweet or blog.. except with the approval of the narco-cartel. This is another great failure of citizen-disarmament!
comment- Disarmed citizens are helpless against armed thugs.
comment- Armed thugs kill disarmed citizens with ease. Anti-rights groups here in the US want us to adopt Mexican style prohibition against firearms.

-The Ebola outbreak is in the news. Since the new political method is to never let a crisis go to waste, the Ebola outbreak is now our fault. You and I.. and the NRA opposed the Obama appointee for US surgeon general. Doctor Vivek Murthy headed up Doctors for Obama, and he helped get Obama Care passed. Here we have another community organizer who has come out against the right of armed self-defense. Of course the NRA opposed Doctor Murthy’s appointment. Somehow the mainstream media forgets that Senate Democrats had the votes to pass Murthy, but these senators opposed his appointment too.
comment- The so called mainstream media suffered a convenient lapse of memory when they blamed the NRA.
comment- the acting surgeon general really is an expert on infectious diseases, but Obama isn’t interested in appointing him.
comment- Our community organizer rides again.

-Washington DC said it now has laws in place so a citizens can have a concealed carry license. Of course, you can’t get one and can’t use one. Except for that, the DC city council complied with the judge’s order. The district requires that applicants have 18 hours of firearms training. DC has no permitting process to qualify trainers. It also required a 435 fee for the instructors to apply.
The district required two hours of range time. It outlawed ranges in DC.
You could travel to Virginia to train, but DC outlawed carrying firearms on public transportation.
Being a victim of violent crime is not considered a reasonable justification to receive a carry license. Having a stalker qualifies.. but the licensing process is expected to take more than 90 days after you apply.
There is no reciprocity with any other shall issue states.
comment- DC is denying its citizens the civil right of self-defense. I hope lawyers like Alan Gura take the DC city council for millions of dollars in penalties.

The Second Amendment Foundation filed a lawsuit in Illinois federal district court. SAF challenged Illinois’s concealed carry which excludes law abiding citizens from carrying because of the state where they live. Joining SAF in this legal action are the Illinois State Rifle Association, Illinois Carry, Inc., and ten individual plaintiffs. All the ten defendants reside in other states and are licensed to carry in those states. Under the restrictive Illinois statute, only residents from states with “substantially similar” requirements to Illinois may obtain an Illinois carry license. Only four states currently qualify. They are Hawaii, New Mexico, South Carolina and Virginia. None of the individual plaintiffs reside in those states. According to SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb, this situation is not simply unfair, it is untenable and we believe unconstitutional.http://www.saf.org/?p=4451
John – They have a great lead plaintiff. It is Col. Kevin Culp who is stationed at Scott AFB in Illinois. He’s a Pennsylvania resident and a NRA Pistol instructor.

– Yesterday the Corvallis Human Services Committee in Corvallis Oregon voted to bring a ban on loaded firearms to the full city council. Was this decision based on any actual incidents of violence or accidents involving openly carried firearms on public property? Was this the result of a long, reasoned debate that identified a real issue or problem? Nope. This was the result of one member of the committee, Penny York, getting in touch with her feelings.

As the Corvallis Gazette-Times reported; “York, admitted her “decision is colored by my feelings,” described her experience of knowing four people who committed suicide and one who in a hunting incident.” What this has to do with lawful open carry is a mystery. But then, when dealing with anti-rights gun grabbers, logic and reason take a vacation. So the rights of the people of Corvallis, and anyone who visits, are going to be trampled because of Councilor York’s “feelings” Not because of any facts. Not because of any real problem. The council is scheduled to take this up at its 6:30 p.m. meeting Nov. 3 Oregon firearms owners should fill the room. http://www.oregonfirearms.org/gun-ban-moving-forward-gabby-comes-town

-There have been continued protests in Ferguson Missouri. That might have a little something to do with the Open Carry Walk that took place yesterday in Saint Louis. Thirty to fifty citizens carried their firearms through Saint Louis from the city garden to the gateway arch. The walk received some news coverage, but I noticed that the news gave equal coverage to the anti-gun Saint Louis Mayor. I can’t tell who won that battle for hearts and minds.

We will have some interviews about Ferguson coming up next.

Gun Quotes
Our first gun quote was submitted by Mandy Ellen Gibbons on our facebook post last week.
“I do not carry a pistol so I can impose my will on someone else. I carry a pistol so someone else cannot impose their will on me.” -Lynn Givens
Rob- I’ve met her, Hi, Mandy!
The next gun quote isn’t attributable to anyone, however Jason Philip nailed it when he posted- “There are better ways to meet people than the shooting sports, but there aren’t any ways to meet better people.”
Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

advertisement Concealment SolutionsSegment 3 Interviews
Do riots have triggering events?
It is too late to do anything once they start.
You have days of warning now.
Don’t be a target.

Get your car off the street. Get your self off the street. Don’t go into the flow of people. Treat it like a flood. If you rent, then move. If you own a home, then move your valuables.
Tacticool clothes? Should you try to blend in more, or is the carrying capacity of the clothing worth not looking like everyone else?
Gun owners will be blamed if they defend themselves. What can we do to minimize the media propaganda from armed self-defense?

Segment 4 DGUs

-In what is becoming a trend for us, we have another burglar with a knife being trumped by a resident with a firearm. This one comes from Butler County, Ohio where Justin Kugler, 15, was sick and home alone. His dogs started barking and Justin looked out but didn’t see anyone. He then armed himself and looked down the staircase to see if anyone was downstairs. Just then Michael Roberts, who was armed with a knife, broke in the front door. Kugler told him to leave or he’d shoot. Roberts was apprehended by police soon after he left the Kulger house. Roberts had escaped earlier that morning from a police cruiser after being arrested for another burglary. In that burglary, Roberts was held at gunpoint by the owner until police arrived.

Justin’s dad, Jarrett had this to say, “Guns have always been an important thing in our family and he knew what to do when the problem came up.” As to Justin, he’s just glad he could stop Roberts before he broke into anyone else’s home.

–Lt. Joshua Nelson is a pilot in the West Virginia Air National Guard and was in Del Rio, Texas which is home to Laughlin AFB. While shopping at the local Walmart with his wife, they saw a man with a large filet knife threatening to kill a woman. The Nelsons, both of whom were legally carrying, did it right. Mrs. Nelson secured her family at the front of the Walmart and called 9-1-1. Lt. Nelson then approached the knife wielding man and told him to drop the knife. Nelson did not pull his firearm but made sure the attacker knew he was armed. The attacker let the woman go and then threatened to commit suicide. Nelson convinced him to drop his knife and he did. When the cops arrived, they handcuffed the suspect and complimented Nelson for how he handled the situation.

Lt. Nelson is a strong believer in the Second Amendment saying that the number one reason he carries is to protect his family. As the public affairs office at Laughlin AFB notes, Nelson’s life reads like it is out of Hollywood. He started work in the coal mines, joined the Marines, back to the coal mines, went to college at Liberty University, became a pilot in the WVANG, *and* is a Delegate in the WV House of Delegates.

–Victor Peters of Lady Lake, Florida had to protect himself against an intruder on Wednesday night. The intruder broke a window on his porch, trashed his porch, and then started towards Peters. That is when Peters felt he had no option but to shoot the 500 lb. black bear. The bear, it seems, had hit the house the day after dog food. Even though Peters moved the food inside the house, the bear wasn’t deterred. Florida Fish & Wildlife officers are investigating the incident.

– Kenneth and Judy Byrd and their 19 year old granddaughter were the victims of a violent home invasion in Lumberton, North Carolina late Monday night. After beating the Byrds severely, the home intruders forced the three into a back room where they attempted to rape the granddaughter. It was then that Mr. Byrd was able to secure a firearm and trade fire with the home intruders who then fled in Mr. Byrd’s Cadillac. Jamie Lee Faison, 20, was found dead in the car when it was recovered six miles away. Jamar Hawkins, 17, and Brandon Stephens, 28, are being held in jail on a $1 million bond each after being released from the hospital. They face multiple charges including attempted murder and both have prior felony convictions. Mr. Byrd, though suffering 8 gun shot wounds in the home invasion, is in stable condition in the hospital and is recovering. It is thought that the robbers were after cash and prescription drugs.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

Email from Ken in AZ
After what happened today, Friday, at the school in Washington state, I am so angry. The very state where Bloomberg, Balmer, Gates, and other have poured millions of dollars into TV ads to swing a vote, a kid with a gun walks freely into school and starts shooting with horrific results. Why couldn’t those very rich men have done some good with their money. Think of how many metal detectors could have been purchased with all that money wasted on trying to control peoples minds and freedoms and pad the bottom line of Mainstream Media TV and radio stations. It’s sick. I am so angry I am making myself sick.

Ken Silva
Phoenix, AZ

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

John: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, October 22nd, 2014. I’m John Richardson.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we interview Miko Tempski of the citizens committtee for the right to keep and bear arms.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll report on Operation Choke Point and another knife attack stopped by a gun owner.
John, of course we have our weekly stories of self-defense and defensive gun use.
Rob so climb aboard
Rachel strap in
John, and hang on! Episode 278 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
John- Nothing really new since the weekend. I did order scope rings and a mount for my new-to-me (and perfectly legal in California) Marlin 336A rifle which I got at an auction on Saturday. I also bought a set of bullet molds for .30-30 for when I ever get around to bullet casting.

Rachel- I spent the weekend with an eager group of ladies at the Fredericksburg LadySeed – an Appleseed rifle marksmanship instructional event for women only.
how was the weather?
Also..what does it mean to “time out” in a shooting stage at the Zombie Run? Your score is a combination of total run time as well as your shooting time at each of 8 shooting stations. So, the range officer times you and records that time….but each stage has a time limit If you reach that, you have “timed out” and must move on.
Rob- Lots of dry practice. Grip, presentation, and reloads. Isometric grip exercises. IDPA this weekend. Reading a book on propaganda and the mainstream media. (Professor Brian Anse Patrick) I have Brian Aitken’s book on the nightstand.

John- Break
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John -Thirty members of Congress demanded the Department of Justice launch an “immediate investigation” into the agency’s own Operation Choke Point. Representatives wanted to know who was involved in creating and implementing the initiative against enterprises that are out of favor with the Obama administration. Led by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer, R-Mo., the 30 lawmakers sent a letter to Michael Horowitz, the Justice Department’s inspector general, and Robin Ashton, head of its Office of Professional Responsibility. The Congressmen calling Choke Point a “blatant abuse of legal authority.” Six Republican Senators sent a letter to the Justice Department earlier this month demanding that Attorney General Eric Holder release information about Operation Choke Point.
rachel comment- and what will happen when the Obama administrations ignores them or writes a false report exonerating itself?

Rob-Jean-Pierre Robinet owns the Old Forge pub in Knoydart, a town of just 111 in Scotland. This week he fought back tears as a court declared his .300 Blaser rifle and a shotgun that he had brought with him when he emigrated from Belgium were illegal and forfeit. Robinet had legally owned the guns in Belgium and had traveled with Belgioum and Scotland for 16 years. There every autumn in the thick forests around Knoydart, which can only be reached by boat or 18-mile overland hike, he would hunt for two weeks. These hunting trips led the Belgian restaurateur to buy the Old Forge nearly two years ago. However, since he is now a full-time UK resident, the guns are illegally owned and will now be disposed of.
Rachel comment- now don’t we all feel safer.
John comment- bigotry on display

Rachel -Certified firearms instructor Rick Ward knows last year’s big debate in the Mississippi legislature was about open carry. The new open carry laws prompted signs banning firearms on buildings across the state. Ward says the building owners are ignoring the Mississippi citizens who can legally carry a gun. “Cities and counties are imposing standards, laws or ordinances and resolutions that violate state law. That’s where we have the problem.” Another bill passed this legislative session allowing citizens to file complaints and ask those locations to remove the signs. More than 30 have been filed since the law took effect. “In one way you say well maybe it’s arrogance, maybe it’s ignorance,” said Ward. “I don’t really know which is the case. You’ve got cities and counties that are not complying till they’re forced to do so.” Some places like the town of Florence are stilling trying to get questions answered. Their attorney requested an opinion from Attorney General Jim Hood last month. The topics are all about clarifying the application of gun laws. Traffic stops were also mentioned. That’s a point Ward is especially concerned about. “We’re not a threat to police officers just because we carry a gun,” he said.

John -A new law was passed in Pennsylvania that allows firearms owners to sue government agencies for their bigoted firearms laws. Now some Democrats are upset they broke the law.. and have to pay for it. Some of the anti-gun politicians thought they could ignore the Pennsylvania state pre-emption laws, and keep the civil rights protesters tied up in court forever. After all, the politicians are spending someone else’s money for lawyers. Not any more. Now Pennsylvania politicians get to tell their story to the judge.. and pay up.
rachel comment- So now we get to find out if a law is a restriction on the right of self-defense.. or not!

Rob -Are you one in a million.. or one in a thousand? A newly created database of New Yorkers deemed too mentally unstable to carry firearms has grown to roughly 34,500 names. That recently released figure raised concerns among some mental health advocates. The mental health professionals said too many people were being categorized as dangerous to themselves or others. Civil rights activists worried that people who posed no threat at all would have their rights infringed. Mental health advocates also argued that the new laws unnecessarily stigmatized people with mental illnesses. Because the names in New York’s database and the circumstances of their cases are private, it is impossible to independently determine whether the people in the database are truly dangerous. Gun-rights opponents claim a wide net is appropriate because of the potentially dire consequences. Even if just one dangerous person had a gun taken away, “that’s a good thing,” said Brian Malte, senior national policy director of the Brady Campaign. The N R A proposed a separate “process of adjudication” to make sure that “these decisions are not being made capriciously and maliciously.”

John comment- As usual, the New York legislature and the elite New York press ignore that guns save lives. They will never count the disarmed victims who could have defended themselves if the state had allowed them to be armed.

Rachel -A jury of six men and six women acquitted a Norristown, Pennsylvania man Thursday of all charges related to a shooting last year. A drunk man entered Culbreath’s Barbershop. The drunk argued with mister Albert Dudley who works at the barbershop. Dudley has a concealed carry license.. and was carrying at the time. The drunk tried to take Mister Dudley’s gun. In the struggle Dudley fired a round into the floor, and also through the arm of the intoxicated man.

Dudley was arrested and charged by Norristown police. This week he was found innocent of two counts of aggravated assault, two counts of simple assault and one count of recklessly endangering another person.

Rob comment- a gun is not the ultimate weapon. It is a tool among many options. A bigoted prosecutor is dangerous to firearms owners.

John -Matthew Halleck brings his two girls to and from the outskirts of Harriet Bishop Elementary in Rochester, Minnesota every day. “I’m going to protect my children anyway I can,” said Halleck. For Matthew, that means having a concealed carry license and carrying where he can. Recently, a sign went up in a front yard across the street from the school. It has Matthew’s picture on it and reads, “This man carries a loaded gun around your children every day. Since we don’t have a way to stop him, we felt it was important to notify the neighborhood and the parents that there is an armed man in their presence,” said Kimberly Edson, a Rochester resident who put the sign up.
Rachel comment- You are always an ambassador. Sometimes a good one. Sometimes a bad one.
Rob- I’d like to thank Mr Halleck

Rob -Edgewood High School Principal Russ Fussnecker may soon start his work day by strapping on a gun. His Butler County, Ohio school district near Cincinnati allows school administrators to carry a handgun while on school grounds. Fussnecker said he will get a concealed-carry gun license then take the required training from the Butler County Sheriff’s department. They would give him a certificate to carry a handgun in a public school building.

The School Principal said, “If someone wants to come into a school building and create havoc and cause harm, it is hard to stop them (if we’re unarmed). An armed principal “will make the school safer.” Butler County and its schools have been emphasizing building security. School officials credit Sheriff Richard Jones, who has made national headlines since Sandy Hook with some of his safety proposals including using former police and military officers as armed substitute teachers.
comment- good for Principal Fussnecker. It would be better if no one knew who was armed.

Rachel -In Episode 276, we reported on how the Everytown Moms for Illegal Mayors were using an armed robbery at a Kroger store to push their move to have legal open or concealed carry banned at the chain. It looks like they are at it again. In this case, the armed robber was dressed in a black hoodie, carried an umbrella, and had on a Halloween skeleton mask while demanding cash at gunpoint. They say, “These crimes at two Kroger stores in one week should serve as a wake up call to Kroger’s leadership to prohibit the open carry of firearms in its stores. Kroger customers should not be responsible for determining if someone in the store holding a gun is a criminal or making a political statement. “

We are including the surveillance photo issued by the Cincinnati Police in our show notes so that you can make the determination.

John Comment – If I were that teller, I’d already have pressed the silent alarm and readied the exploding dye packet of money. It is that obvious.
rob comment- Mandatory disarmament is a fantasy. They want a no-guns sign as if that will work any better than the no robbery sign.
rachel comment- We will see if Kroger customers and management is smart enough to know the difference between a fantasy and reality.

john – The US Supreme Court has agreed to take a case tangentially involving firearms. It is actually more of a takings case. Former Border Patrol Agent Tony Henderson was convicted of distributing marijuana back in 2007 and sentenced to 6 months in prison. When he was arrested, he voluntarily gave his 19 firearms to the FBI. Henderson later asked to be able to sell the firearms as a felon cannot own firearms and a judge refused. The 11th Circuit Ct. of Appeals in Atlanta affirmed the ruling. The legal question is whether the federal prohibition on felons possessing firearms terminates all ownership rights. His attorney argues that leaving the ruling intact strips gun owners of their property rights for conviction upon an unrelated charge. The government argues that Henderson could have transferred or sold the guns prior to his conviction.
comment Rob- It isn’t clear if Henderson faced full due process.

Our sympathy to the family of Corporal Cirillo. I noticed that the Parliament was protected by armed security. They met violence with violence and saved the legislators. As a counter example, Canadian citizens are asked to wait as disarmed victims until the police arrive.

Rachel – Missouri State Senator Jamilah Nasheed had a gun in her possession at the time she was arrested. She was arrested as she protested outside the Ferguson Missouri Police Department. Senator Nasheed has a concealed carry license, and has an anti-gun voting record. She sponsored several Missouri Bills including a Gun Owner Registry. She also refused to take a breath analysis because the police thought she acted strangely, she was kneeling in the street and she “smelled strongly of intoxicants.”

Rob comment- You or I would be in jail. She goes to trial next year.

John- Gun Quote “One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure — and in some cases I have — that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.” – Jeff Cooper

It’s designed to prevent gun confiscation like we saw after Katrina – without due process. It also prevents state agencies from promoting background checks that are stricter than a national standard. (See full text)

An initiative is just as a law passed by the legislature, but with greater protections (it can’t be changed immediately).

What happens if 591 and 594 both pass?
It’s unclear what happens when two competing initiatives pass, covering the same topic. Possibly, the conflicting portions would simply be cancelled out; possibly, the courts would consider which initiative received more votes.

Why have two competing initiatives, instead of simply opposing 594?
difficulties in educating voters on what’s in 594
additional protections are afforded by 591
Do law enforcement support 591?
Yes. Most do.
Why is initiative 594 particularly dangerous?

It criminalizes non-violent behavior, including normal firearms safety classes. It shuts down the gun culture in Washington State by making it very difficult to take friends shooting or to go hunting with your family. Also, because it’s an initiative, the legislature would not be able to change anything about it for at least two years.

Segment 4 DGUs
Rob – In our last two episodes, we’ve featured DGUs in which someone with a knife is stopped by an armed citizen. In this case, a Flint, Michigan robber brandished a knife and demanded money last Thursday around 7pm. The victim responded by pulling his legally carried firearm while calling 9-1-1. The victim held the robber until police arrived and arrested the robber.

Rachel –The residents of a Bellevue, Nebraska apartment started keeping a shotgun near the front door after a previous break-in. It came in handy after Tyrell Dalia, 21, broke into the home Saturday night armed with a handgun. One of the occupants responded to Dalia’s threats with armed force. Dalia, who was out on bail while awaiting trial on felony charges, was killed.

Rob Comment – Wait, I thought people under indictment for a felony weren’t supposed to have firearms.

John –A home invasion in Sarasota County, Florida turned deadly early Tuesday morning. Fortunately, it was deadly for the home invader and not the residents. When home owner Chris Bane heard the glass break at 5:40 am, he armed himself. Going out into the hallway, he came face to face with Calvin Yoder. After Yoder fired a shot at him, Mr. Bane returned fire killing Yoder. A spokeswoman for the Sarasota County Sheriff’s Dept says no charges will be brought against Mr. Bane as he was defending himself and his 11 year old son. Yoder had been arrested several times and had served time in prison.

Rob – A store clerk in Albuquerque, New Mexico gave the armed robbers $100 and his watch. The Pajarito Corner Store had been the target of armed robberies in the past. When the clerk went to lock the door of the store after they left, one of them turned around and pointed a firearm at him from their Mercedes. That is when he shot and killed one of the robbers. Christopher Garza, 20, was pronounced dead at UNM Hospital. Police say the shooting was justified. His accomplice, Reuben Lucero, also 20, is now being charged with felony murder in his death.

John- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

Advertisement NJ2ASTips and tricksSegment 5 Show close

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

I wrote about our California gun laws. Mental health evaluations don’t work to protect us.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank our guest Miko Tempski for joining us today. Our go fund me page needs some love. We’re raising money to bring you streaming video from next years Gun Rights Policy Conference in Phoenix, Arizona. Rachel and Rob, will you be with us for the weekend show? I’m looking forward to it. So until next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: Y’all please be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Sunday October 19, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Frank Fiamingo of NJ2AS

Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty and I think Cook County, IL is trying to create a gun registry

Gary: I’m Gary Harpster and we have a discussion about gas masks and surgical masks

Gary D: so climb aboard

John: strap in

Gary H: and hang on!

Paul: Episode 277 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – I spent yesterday morning at a gun auction. It was the auction of a guy’s accumulated gun collection. It was mostly hunting guns. The thing I found most interesting is what people would bid up. For example, a Chinese SKS that reputedly was a Vietnam War bring-back with no proof or documentation went for $900. I could see this with proof but otherwise it is just another Norinco SKS that should have sold for $3-400.

Paul – Not much gun related. No recent donations to our GoFundMe page to get equipment for streaming GRPC 2015, but we still have about 11 months to go. I want to say a public thank you to both John and Gary D for making contributions. Lots of planning for next year. confirmed final plans for Citizen First Response with Chaz Murray, Ken Kowalski and Jon Hodoway. Also going to have Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced and Cornered Cat classes next summer. Add that to doing Shot Show this winter and GRPC next fall and trying to arrange going up to the great white north to do the Slam Fire Radio Charity shoot in June and it is looking to be a REALLY busy year next year.

Gary D. – I got to shoot the new guns, both very nice. Because they will eventually be PDFs I will shoot some PD ammo through them before the get put into service in that capacity. I wanted to do a quick follow up from the end of the last show. Rob and Rachel were talking about situational awareness and coincidently at around the same time I was talking to a student about exactly the same thing. This student has his permit but chooses not to carry, and I was explaining Jeff Cooper’s levels of awareness and how if we walk around in condition white we aren’t able to control the escalation of our awareness. We just get surprised by a bad guy and are thrown into condition black. If you are unfamiliar check out the link in the show notes, and be aware whether you are carrying or not.

Break

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Seg 2- News

John –Politico is reporting that in true Rahm Emanuel fashion a group of Democrats are using the current Ebola scare to try and push for confirmation of Dr. Vivek Murthy as Surgeon General. You may recall that Murthy has been held up in the past because of his rather extreme anti-gun views. The Democrats making the most noise about this are members of the house, and since the Senate confirms appointees we don’t have a lot to worry about on this subject right now, but we will keep an eye on it.

Paul comment – a surgeon general has recently been a cheerleader with no real power and as such wouldn’t help much with Ebola, and if the position ever got real power we definitely would have issues with someone like Murthy.

Paul – Shocking as it may sound, CNN actually ran a story illustrating a young shooter in a positive light. They profiled Shyanne Roberts, age 10, of Franklinville, NJ who is a 3-Gun and USPSA competitor. Last year, she was second highest woman in the New Jersey Ruger Rimfire Challenge. Shyanne started learning the rules of gun safety at age 5 from her dad Dan and began shooting at age 6. She says, “”I want to be an inspiration to other kids and be a leader. Kids and guns don’t always mean bad things happen.”

Paul -A few episodes back we mentioned that GOA hadn’t yet released their 2014 voter guide. Well it is out now. It seems to us that it is a little late in the game for this to come out with the elections being just a few weeks out, and early voting already started in several states, but better late than never.

John – Comment – While I generally agree with the grades, it could be better organized. For example, in South Carolina which has both US Senate seats up for grabs, all the candidates are lumped together instead of by each contest.

Gary -We are mostly pro law enforcement here, and actively look for places to promote positive police stories, and it could be said that when speaking of the rank and file officers of the Asheville NC police department that that is the case here. wlos.com is reporting that 44 of the rank and file officers have signed a petition that states they believe that their chief should step down immediately. There are allegations of corruption as well as complaints about short staffing and mandatory overtime.

John – I live in the Asheville area. Chief William Anderson doesn’t take responsibility for when things go wrong. An example recently was a number of radar guns having outdated certification which led to dismissal of a number of speeding tickets. Anderson denied knowing about it which is either a failure of communication or a failure of management.

John -While the last story was about average cops doing the right thing, the next story comes right out of the you have got to be kidding me department. A 5 year old in Alabama was kicked out of class and was forced to sign a contract stating that she will tell an adult before she commits suicide or murders someone. Her offense – holding a crayon and stating “pew pew.” The girl’s mother was understandably outraged and infuriated when the 5 year old was forced to sign the contract without her parent’s knowledge or consent.

Paul comment – in most states a contract signed by someone under 18 years old is unenforceable. In a few instances the person requiring the signature can face criminal penalties.

Gary –MyFoxDC is reporting that DC police chief Cathy Lanier thinks that people who have a carry permit should be able to be arrested without warning if they are carrying in the area of a Presidential motorcade. She thinks that a policemen giving a warning and asking the person to leave the area is too large a burden. “The fact that the event is a gun-free event and is both posted and advertised should be sufficient notice,” she said. She also stated that it was difficult to provide advance notice of motorcades carrying dignitaries through city streets and said it was reasonable for gun owners in the vicinity of such events to be personally warned.

John -Miguel over at the Gun Free Zone Blog had a post this week discussing the story that South Carolina prosecutors are no longer allowing the victims of domestic violence to use the “stand your ground” defense. Here is a quote from that post from a South Carolina prosecutor. “(The Legislature’s) intent … was to provide law-abiding citizens greater protections from external threats in the form of intruders and attackers,” prosecutor Culver Kidd told the Post and Courier. “We believe that applying the statute so that its reach into our homes and personal relationships is inconsistent with (its) wording and intent.” So now you have a law that protects you in your home… except when it doesn’t. Also you can defend yourself… except when you can’t.

Paul (I REALLY want to do this story) – long time listeners to the show know that I have had my issues with Robert Farago and The Truth About Guns. However the story that he posted Thursday has a lot of people up in arms. The police chief of Watervliet NY (water FLEET) is asking for Facebook usernames AND PASSWORDS in pistol permit applications. Robert called the police department and had a conversation with Chief Ron Boisvert. The following is directly from the post

The Chief told TTAG that the sheet shouldn’t have been in the application packet – and won’t be in future. “It’s for internal use only,” he said.

Yes, well, the Chief said he uses the form to gather the applicant’s Facebook deets during a face-to-face interview. Why make note of the password? “We don’t,” he insisted. “We ask the applicant to log on to Facebook in front of us.” So the Chief scrolls through the applicant’s Facebook page searching for . . . ?

“Pages they’re looked at, friends – anything that reflects on the character of the applicant.” I pointed out that there’s a big difference [in terms of privacy] between viewing a Facebook page as a friend and viewing it as the owner. The Chief wasn’t bothered by the distinction.

When I pointed out that checking someone’s Facebook page (in front of them no less) was unnecessary, unfair and unconstitutional, the Chief said “I’m just the middleman here” and “it is what it is.” He said the information gets sent to a Superior Court judge who makes the final decision. The Facebook search is, in fact, the judiciary’s idea. I mean, requirement.

I asked the Chief what would happen if someone refused to log on to their Facebook account. “I’d just note the fact and send it to the Judges.”

Gun Quotes

Paul – We put out a post asking for gun quotes this morning on our Facebook page and we got a LOT of them. So many of them are good so we will be using them over the next several shows. Today’s quote was submitted by Kathy Jackson, (yes THAT Kathy Jackson) “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is you point a gun at him.” – Spartanburg County Sheriff Chuck Wright

Hang on everybody, Our interview with Frank Fiamingo is up right after this.

ROLLINS – It appears alleged burglar Cole J. Johnson was more afraid of the neighbor holding a loaded gun on him than he was of the four cops who showed up to arrest him.

Under the barrel of his neighbor, Johnson, 20, of Lake County, remained still, caught in the act of burglarizing a Rollins-area home in North County. But when the police arrived, Lake County Undersheriff Dan Yonkin said Johnson tried to run.

The incident started about 10 p.m., Oct. 9, when a woman called 9-1-1 to report that her husband and two sons went to her neighbor’s house with a loaded gun, interrupted an attempted burglary and were holding the suspect at gunpoint.

While three Lake County Sheriff’s deputies and a Montana Highway Patrol trooper responded to the scene, another neighbor called dispatch to report they heard gunfire. The first 911 caller suspected Johnson was highly intoxicated, according to the call.

Johnson hid in a dark place inside the house where the gun-toting neighbor could not see him, emergency dispatchers said. But the gun-toting neighbor already saw the broken window and knew he was hiding.

“Don’t move or I’ll shoot,” the neighbor said. According to Yonkin, the gun-holding neighbor was just trying to scare the failed burglar, shot a warning into the air and held him at gunpoint until cops arrived.

When officers arrived on scene they noted that Johnson was “very drunk,” and had an active warrant out for his arrest and he tried to flee when taken into custody, Yonkin said.

Johnson was cited for attempted burglary and felony criminal mischief and taken to CSKT Tribal Jail.

John -Two armed home invaders in Shawnee, Oklahoma ignored the security system sign, the motion sensors, and the alarm system when they broke into Frances and Cardell Banks’ home around 2:30am Wednesday morning. The elderly couple had lived there for 40 year. When one of the armed home invaders broke into their bedroom, pointed his shotgun at the couple, and told them to get on the floor, Mr. Banks responded “You get out of here.” He then shot the intruder in the chest. The intruder along with his accomplice then fled the house. Justin Ray Harjo, age 26, was later found under a truck and taken to the OU Medical Center for emergency surgery. He is in the ICU is serious condition.

There is more to this story. According to Mr. Banks, he didn’t have any experience with firearms. “No! That’s my first time shooting a gun,” he said. His wife Frances said they bought the gun hoping to never need it, but now she’s glad it was there. Mr. Banks also said his gun jammed after the first shot.

Comment – The Banks were lucky.

Gary -A strange DGU came out of Lakeland Florida on Saturday. According to theledger.com Michael Thomas White trespassed on 2 properties on Saturday morning. At the second he encountered the homeowner. When she asked him to leave he brandished a 12 ½ inch double edged dagger. The homeowner then got her husband and his Mossberg 12ga shotgun. When the husband asked him to leave White stated that his sister was a witch and had been burned at the stake on that property and therefore the property was his. He then threw the dagger, at which point the husband shot white in the arm. According to the article White started dancing around and flailing his arms, then exited the property. He was found in a grocery store parking lot a few blocks away and was arrested and taken to the hospital with non life threatening injuries.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Jacob sent in our first email

Last podcast you all had a wonderful debate about the trainer refusing to train Muslims. I enjoyed listening to the responses, and like so many other times when listening to intelligent debate, I could appreciate the opinions expressed, even if I didn’t always agree. I found myself often bringing up counterpoints in my head, only to hear someone bring the very same point up on-air, which was satisfying, to say the least. One point was not brought up, so I felt I should say something about it.

It is definitely a reality that if you soak a crucifix in urine and try and call it “art,” you’ll get a “tsk-tsk” from the Christian community, whereas if you draw an image of Muhammed with a bomb under his turban you may very well have a firebombing at your house. That said, someone (I don’t recall who) said that while it was only an extremist minority committing violence or terrorism, the rest of the Muslim world wasn’t protesting or condemning them publicly, which makes them complicit. This would be true, if the media chose the very condemnations we’re looking for. I remember recently reading a pretty cool point-by-point condemnation of ISIS in an open letter from over 100 Muslim clerics. I’ve included a link to both the text, and a news article discussing it.

“American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.”

It happens, but it appears it gets the same coverage in the American media that is given for attempted mass shootings stopped by CCW holders. That is to say, not very much

Paul – Mike in NJ wrote in a brief email stating that Ah-Ha’s Take On Me was the best music video ever made, not Robert Palmer’s Addicted to Love. I emailed him back and stated that while Take On Me was likely in the top 10 it was not even close to the best ever… Must be something in New Jersey’s water. Bad gun laws and bad taste in music’ videos.

=========================================

Greg in Bremerton emailed this in.

Paul,

Your opinion, is this worthwhile? You can answer in an Email or cover it on your next show.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about? – NOTHING from ME.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, October 15, 2014. On tonight’s show we’ll present an After Action Report on the Zombie Run and we’ll talk about self-defense news

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – Not much in the way of shooting news to report. However, I did receive my invitation to Media Day at the Range for the SHOT Show. It means I can do more than just look with regard to some of the new firearms coming out. I’ll be able to actually shoot them!!!

Rob- Ammo arrived. I felt like a ammunition pusher delivering a package of lead and brass to a friend. One box with a thousand rounds of 45 is heavy!

Rachel- not much. Prepping for a LadySeed I’m shoot bossing in Fredericksburg this weekend. I have a wedding gig Saturday evening so I’m going to have to figure out some way to go straight from the range to a formal event without having range hair…all the ladies will understand.

Seg 2- News
ROB – In California, we recently passed a law that would let a doctor take away your means of self defense. A mental health professional, a cop or a family member could ask for a firearms restraining order. This will be abused. It will also be ineffective. How do we know the new law will not stop the mentally ill? Because some crazy people are evil, and they lie. The young murderer who shot up the Arapahoe High School in Colorado planned his attack. The murderer called himself a “psychopath” in his secret diary. The murderer vowed revenge for slights dating back to elementary school. He was a discipline problem at school and threatened the debate coach. The murderer wrote that he wanted to commit QUOTE “mass murder and be in a place of power where I and I alone are judge, jury and executioner.” CLOSE QUOTE

To the rest of us, that is a clue. The murderer was required to take two mental health evaluations within a few months of his murders. One was a threat assessment by a school psychologist. The second evaluation was by therapists at a private behavioral clinic. They determined he was a low-level threat. Yes, then described him as a threat in their reports. So how did this murderer pass the mental health screening designed to detect sociopaths? The murderer tellls us in his own words. In his diary, the murder said, “Let the record show I lied through my teeth (during) the test.”

The proponents of firearms registration said they will keep us safe. They would take guns from people who are crazy, criminal or corrupt. You’d have to be crazy to believe them. Similar laws are proposed in New York.

RACHEL – Allison Lundergan Grimes is running for political office. She is currently the Secretary of State in Kentucky. She wants to be the next senator from Kentucky. Grimes recently spoke to a board of editors at the Louisville Kentucky Journal Courier. It isn’t news that politicians say different things to different audiences. Now we can find out when they say one thing to one audience and say something else to a different audience. The Weekly Standard has a copy of Allison Grimes briefing notes for the newspaper editors. Grimes was told to say-

support “strengthening background checks,” on firearms

don’t take a stand on “closing the gun show loophole.”

“disagrees with Obama on gun control by saying “We shouldn’t be banning guns based on things like their grips as a bill supported by Obama tried to do.”

Note that Grimes does not have a clear position against banning guns for other reasons. The Democrat Senate Committee has stopped all funding for Grimes in her election bid for Senate.

JOHN- Susan Happ is the Democrat candidate for Attorney General of Wisconsin. On Monday, she called for universal background checks on all gun sales. Perhaps it is only a coincidence but that same day her opponent Republican Brad Schimel received the NRA’s endorsement for Attorney General. In response to her call for universal background checks, Schimel said that criminals don’t fill out government forms. He says the real problem is prosecutors don’t enforce laws barring felons from possessing guns.

ROB – In further proof that keeping university campuses gun-free zones is not a great idea, police at the University of Illinois issued a public safety alert for the Champaign-Urbana campus. This came after four separate incidents of battery and strong armed robbery by a roving mob of black males. They randomly attacked five people for what University Police say was “seemingly no reason”. The incidents happened early Saturday morning. There is speculation that these random attacks were actually part of a gang initiation ritual. Police in the area had noted the rise of street gangs as either affiliates of Chicago gangs or stand-alone gangs that later affiliated with the Chicago street gangs..

RACHEL – How is that gun-free campus working for you in Washington DC? A group of eight students at Catholic University were robbed at gunpoint. This happened in a wooded area on campus thursday evening. Two men approached the students. They drew a handgun and demanded their Phones, backpacks and wallets. The students, two women and six men, were unarmed.

JOHN – The Bloomberg-affiliate Moms Demand Action has been running a campaign against Kroger because they won’t kow-tow to demands to forbid legally owned firearms in their grocery stores. This next story illustrates why giving in to the Demanding Mommies would be dangerous. Champak Rana of West Chester, Ohio went to the Kroger Monday evening to pick up his wife. While using the bathroom, an armed man put a gun to the back of his head and demanded his wallet. Rana complied and the man ran from the store. Police are looking for the armed robber.

The Bloomberg Moms are now perversely using this incident as an example of why legal carry must be banned in Krogers. They said Kroger customers “should not be responsible for determining if someone in the store holding a gun is a criminal or merely making a political statement.”

ROB – On Monday, the US District Court for Idaho ruled that the Army Corps of Engineers cannot ban the carrying of firearms for self-defense on Corps property. The case, Morris v. US Army Corps of Engineers, challenged the total ban on firearms and ammunition used for self-defense. There are limited exceptions for hunting on Corps property. The court said the Corps’ existing regulation violated the Second Amendment under any level of scrutiny and enjoined its enforcement in Idaho. Chief Judge B. Lynn Winmill limited it to Idaho as the plaintiffs only challenged its application on lakes and in campgrounds in Idaho.

RACHEL – Here is what happens if you live in a country where there is no Second Amendment and no Fourth Amendment. The Home Secretary in the United Kingdom issued new guidance to British police regarding firearm regulations for England and Wales. He said that police could now make unannounced home visits to gun owners to check on the security of their firearms. The police can do this if they have a concern that the gun owner might be vulnerable to either theft or terrorism. A dedicated Crimestoppers hotline has been established to report concerns. Given that the Government reports only about 475 firearms (out of a total of 1.8 million) are stolen annually, the British Assoc. for Shooting & Conservation has called this law “unnecessary and inappropriate”. The Countryside Alliance is asking shooters to contact their MPs about the campaign as it ““encourages an untrusting and vindictive attitude from your friends and neighbours”.

ROB – I’m writing an article about Mexico. Some students from a teachers college protested against the corruption of their local government. The police herded them into vans. They were later found in several mass graves. We think the police gave the students to the local narcotics gangs who killed them. Today the students and faculty burned down the state capital.

JOHN – Loudon County (Tennessee) Commissioners voted 10-0 on Monday night to take down the signs banning carry in the county’s office building. The idea to do this came from Loudon County Mayor Buddy Bradshaw. He said the gun ban was outdated. Bradshaw continued, “”What the gun signs in effect did was disarm a law abiding citizen, and I didn’t feel comfortable being a part of that. “I think this makes us safer. In my opinion removing the signs is the same thing as removing a bullseye.” As to the Courthouse and Annex, removing signs there will be up to the sheriff. There remains a “no guns” policy for city employees, but the mayor said that might change too.

ROB – 17-year-old Atiya Haynes, a Michigan honor student, was expelled from school after security guards at a high school football game found her pocketknife in her bag. Her grandfather gave her the knife to protect herself as she biked between southwest Detroit and Dearborn for her summer job, and she’d forgotten she’d left it in her bag. The school is allowing her to take online courses in order to graduate, but because of a zero-tolerance policy for weapons she’s not allowed to physically return to her school.

RACHEL – To me, this story screams out about ceding control of our kids to the government and thereby subjugating them to governmental regulations. Whether we’re talking about guns, self-defense, or raising our kids: if we do not take responsibility, we lose freedom. THIS is why I have chosen to homeschool the brother I’m raising. So I can teach him as I wish, so he can learn about freedom, so he can learn the purpose and use of firearms, so he can be a member of a polite society.

RACHEL – Governor Cuomo must feel confident about owning New York. He has proposed a second version the gun control act called the New York SAFE act. Safe act 2 would include-

All weapons must be stored with a safety locking device or in a safe storage depository.

Requires all semiautomatic pistols must microstamp the ejected case.

Ban all weapons larger than 50-Caliber.

Adds business practices, recordkeeping, reporting and a million dollar liability insurance requirements for all firearms dealers.

Reduces the period of a pistol permit to two years from five years. The period of the pistol permits used to be lifetime before the first safe act reduced them to five years.

This looks like the cultural purge New York Democrats have always wanted.

Gun Quotes – John

“How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual… as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of.” Texas state representative Suzanna Gratia Hupp

JOHN – A man brought a knife to a gunfight at a Northeast Philadelphia [PA] supermarket late Sunday afternoon. The two men didn’t know each other. They were in the parking lot outside the Pathmark grocery store. That is where the younger man started the argument because the older man “looked at him for no reason.” The younger man then pulled a 13-inch serrated hunting knife and threatened to cut the other man. The older man asked the aggressor several times to drop the knife. The younger man refused, and attacked him instead. The older man then pulled out his 9mm Glock and shot the knife-wielding attacker in the groin. The attacker was taken to the hospital in critical condition. The defender has a valid concealed carry license. No charges have been filed.

RACHEL – An Alabama man was walking along a trail in an Alabama park. It was just at sundown when the walker was approached by a man carrying a large stick. The man demanded his money and his wallet. The victim presented his firearm and the robber fled. The victim gave a detailed description of Bobby Dean Hall, age 40, of Sylacauga, Alabama. The police picked Hall up, and the robber is now in the Talladega county jail until he makes bond. The armed man is unhurt.

ROB – 1:30 AM is a strange time to buy a bag of chips. A customer brought a bag of chips to the counter at a British Petroleum gas station in Saint Louis, Missouri. The customer also brought a handgun and pointed the gun at the store manager while demanding the money in the till. The manager drew his own handgun. He shot the robber in the leg, the buttocks and the hand. 31 year old Roosevelt Yancy was taken to the hospital where he remains in stable condition. He is charged with attempted robbery and armed criminal action. A judge set bail at $150,000 cash-only. I noticed that the news already had a police photo of Mister Yancy, so I’d guess he has a criminal history. The 23 year old store manager and a 26 year old clerk were not injured.

JOHN – Pennsylvania State representatives Marty Flynn and Ryan Bizzarro were walking home from the capital at about 11pm. The pair were approached by several teenagers and a teen driving a car. One of the teens pointed a gun at the legislators and demanded their money. Marty Flynn is the representative from Scranton. He is also a former prison guard, a mixed martial arts fighter and a professional boxer. He drew his licensed handgun and fired at the teen. The crew of teens fled while the legislators called 911. The provided a description. The police found them. And the legislators positively identified the teenage robbers. Police recovered the firearm used in the incident. The teens were charged with attempted homicide, aggravated assault, robbery, conspiracy to commit robbery, possession of a firearm by a minor and a curfew violation. I assume these two Pennsylvania legislators are pro-self-defense. I wonder how the democrats, Flynn and Bizzaro feel about the Pennsylvania attorney general working to stop reciprocity with other states.

Segment 5 Email and Show close

Rachel- This e-mail came in from listener William Harvey. Hello, William, and thank you for writing. He says-

Hello all,

In a recent program you responded to an email I sent and it ended up a discussion about revolvers and that they were no longer viable primary defensive arms. Even though I normally carry a semi I do at times carry a wheel gun as my primary carry gun. Just depends on my mode of dress and the situation. I don’t feel under-gunned when I do so either. It is all a matter of how you train and what you practice. With a semi a lot of time is spent practicing doing failure drills. With revolvers you spend your time practicing reloading.

I’m not saying the revolvers are superior to semi-autos and I am not saying they are inferior. Both have the advantages and their disadvantages. (I.E., every cloud has a silver lining and every silver lining has a cloud.) The best choice depends on the situation. Maybe you should try to find a wheel gun expert as a guest. Maybe Grant C., from gun nation.

My question about the defensive gun use refers to the clerk that shot two of the robbers and had the 3rd shoot him and got away. Everyone said he did a great job and I have to agree 100%. When the story first aired, it was mentioned on 2 shows, Rachael asked, “Wonder if he had training?” A good question and something I also wonder. My question comes from what was next said. One of the guys, don’t know which one, said, “I hope so.” I have to ask, WHY?

It would seem from all the comments everyone seems to think he did a great job. He certainly did better than a lot of police in that he was able to hit 2 of his targets and kept a level head throughout, something that training may not instill. So why, after the fact, does it even make any difference if he had training or not? In other words, why do you hope so?

Not intended as a criticism but just curious.
William Harvey

Rob comment- I hope everyone who carries has training because a lethal weapon is the wrong place to learn from your own mistakes. If I remember correctly, the clerk was open carrying a 45. The robbers had hoodies pulled tight around their heads. The clerk was backing out of the store when he bumped into the fourth criminal who was a lookout waiting at the back door. The lookout shot him in the hip.

The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Sunday, October 12, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we talk with Kevin Coyne (coin) about a constitutional militia
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the campaign to stop gun violence trying to get a sheriff in trouble because of his beliefs
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we talk about new research from Dr. John Lott Jr.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and in one of our DGU’s we talk about a domestic violence incident that turned into a DGU.
Gary: I’m Gary Harpster and we have a discussion about Packing your bug out bag
Rachel: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 275 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul – Range day yesterday, 30-30 still kicks and is still fun to shoot, and reasonably accurate. 50 yard shots with a Glock 22 can me made, but aren’t easy. Tannerite REALLY goes boom when you put 15lbs of it under a TV.

Morons at gun nuts radio and gun nuts media (Caleb Giddings) and why I am changing who I do my firearms business with. (I will try to do a better outline later on this topic, but it is going to get ugly. I am PISSED off.)

While getting ready for range day and doing some research for show notes I ran across Robert Palmer on YouTube “Addicted to Love” 45 vs 17 at 45 I realised that the women in the video couldn’t actually play the instruments that they were holding in the video. Still don’t care, the BEST music video ever! (had to do the math to find out how darn old I am.

www.gunownerssociety.com Black Deer Hunter started it and asked if I would help setting up a place for the polite Society Podcast. I have done just a little bit with it and will do more as time allows.

John – I spent yesterday afternoon at the Land O’ Sky Gun Show working at the Grass Roots North Carolina booth. We handed out tons of voter guides evaluating all candidates from state house to US senate on how they stand on gun rights. The guides provide the info but it is up to each individual to make the decision for whom to vote.

Attendance was less than last year at this time but I think the gun buying hysteria (for lack of a better word) is over. Prices are returning to normal though I didn’t price any .22 LR ammo. I was able to pick up some ammo at decent prices.

Rob- Dry practice. Writing. The good news is my ammunition arrived. The bad news is I wasn’t home to sign for it. I get to pick up my shipment on Monday.

Gary D – Show and tell

Rachel- I killed zombies!!! I got to kill ‘em in the burning hot sun on Friday, just under 100 degrees, hot and dusty. Then a cold front blew in and the participants ran in freezing cold rain, sloshing through the mud, on Saturday. I was impressed that everyone still showed up. I grabbed 5 participants for an interview, and we’ll air those interviews soon. Personally, I met my goals for the run – to carry more gear and to improve my overall time. I also learned some helpful things about myself and how I can improve my abilities. One thing I learned: I do WAY better when I quit overthinking everything and just tell myself I’m gonna go kill the zombies!

Seg 2- News
Gary -We’ve left the age of law and entered the age of bigotry. Here is the latest proof. Wicomico (wy-KAHM-ih-koh) County Sheriff Mike Lewis said he would stop an un-constitutional overreach by the federal government if the feds tried to seize firearms from honest citizens in the state of Maryland. The Sheriff said such an overreach could lead to a civil war. The way I read it, the Sheriff was trying to stop such a civil war from starting in the first place. Sheriff Lewis’s direct statements were too much for some Bloomberg Gun Grabbers. The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence wants Wicomico County Sheriff Mike Lewis’ teaching certification to be revoked. Sheriff Lewis teaches and serves on the Maryland Police Training Commission. The only way a certification could be revoked is if the Training Commission calls for a staff review. That staff review would be the result of a request; the review would determine whether the person has violated any commission regulations. Anyone can make a request. We will see if the Maryland Police Training Commission has been so politicized as to silence a sheriff who recognizes the oppressive actions of a federal government and respects the rights of his citizens in Wicomico County.
Rob comment- This is a political hit.

John – CSGV considers Sheriff Lewis a “thought criminal” and they want to be the Thought Police. There is a great way to respond to it. Do as I and David Codrea have suggested. Sign the petition in the name of a famous tyrant.
Comment – You mean like Stalin, Hitler, or Pol Pot.
John – That is exactly what I mean. I used Heinrich Himmler who was head of both the SS and the Gestapo.

Rob- Doctor John Lott writes and researches at the crime prevention research center. Mass public shootings, where the shooter intends to commit mass murder in a public place, have not “exploded” over the last five years, as frequently claimed in the media. The mass murders have not increased either in terms of the number of attacks or the number of people killed. Indeed, the evidence points to a slight decline. When the public shootings involve so-called “assault weapons” the attacks were no more deadly than those attacks involving other types of weapons. Quoting Doctor Lott, the new data from the FBI is so full of errors, “Their numbers should not be relied on for any type of policy analysis.”

Rachel- I’ve criticized county bureaucrats for their political decisions. Now I say thank you and well done to the Board of Commissioners in Lee County, North Carolina. The commissioners recinded a ban on civilians carrying fireams in most county buildings. The vote was 4 to 3. The reason is fascinating. The North Carolina General Assembly passed a law last year that now allows local governments to set firearms policy. This will lead to a patchwork of laws that vary from county to county, and town to town.

Council Chairman Charlie Parks said he supported the measure “to have another layer of security,” because people already bring concealed weapons into government buildings, despite signs on doors that prohibit them. “We’ve already had reports of that – about people who don’t have permits and are actually illegal in what they’re doing. What the signs do – they just tell the criminal that it’s a target-rich environment, where they have the ability to utilize their weapons if they want to.”

Chairman Parks gets it. Thank you, Sir. There are four other counties that have a similar ordinance. The new rules go into effect in 2015.

John -Continuing on in North Carolina, Grass Roots North Carolina will be seeking an injunction against Agriculture Commissioner Steve Troxler’s decision to post the North Carolina State Fair against carry by concealed carry permit holders. This decision flies in the face of a recent change in law that allows concealed carry holders to carry at assemblies that charge admission. The only state properties that are posted against carry are the State Capitol, the Executive Mansion, the Governor’s Western Residence, and courthouses. The State Fairgrounds are not on this list, they are not considered private property, and they aren’t considered a local government. Legal experts has cast doubt on Troxler’s efforts to post the fairgrounds. With the State Fair opening on Thursday, we should know by next weekend if NC judges can read the law.

Paul- We’re told we must restrict the human right of self-defense because that right is simply too dangerous to allow in our modern society. We’re told a lie. The obvious question we have to ask the many Bloomberg funded groups is this- firearms are too dangerous compared to what? Professor AWR Hawkins puts firearms accidents into perspective. We are 69 time more likely to die from accidental poisoning than from a firearms accident. We are 41 times more likely to die in an accidental fall than from a firearms accident. We are 10 time more likely to die from either accidental suffocation or accidental burns than to die from a firearms accident. Despite those numbers, we don’t need a license to have household poisons. There isn’t a 10 day cooling off period to buy matches. We don’t have one-ladder-a-month laws. That means the 23 thousand firearms regulations we have in the US.. are NOT about public safety. Those regulation are about control. Thank you, Professor Hawkins for looking at the data from the Center for Disease Control.

Gary -This next news item will really upset Bloomberg’s moms. A civic group is raffling off a kid’s rifle to help fund playground equipment for a rural school. This one-room school house is so remote that it takes an hour to reach a paved road. The Crown King School in the Bradshaw Mountains has a dirt playground except for the basketball court. Troop 1-A of the Arizona Rough Riders Historical Society donated a Henry Goldenboy model .22 rifle as the grand prize and raised over $300 dollars for the school.

Rob- With apologies to co-host John Richardson and my wife, both of whom worked on campus, some faculty have a strange view of firearms in the real world. The University of Wyoming Faculty Senate voted on a position paper for the Wyoming legislature. Faculty Resolution 325 said there was no need for firearms on campus, and that guns frightened them. The Faculty Senate ignored the statistics that there are a million sexual assaults on campus each year.

Oklahoma’s higher education chancellor, Glen Johnson, spoke for the presidents of the Oklahoma public colleges when he said universities unanimously oppose allowing more guns on campus. Quote “We don’t see a scenario where permitting the carrying of weapons on campus does anything but add to the danger.” Close Quote.

The Chancellor ignores the 11 thousand robberies that happen each year in college dorms where students are supposed to feel safe. It ignores the assaults on and near campus where the chancellor wants students, staff and faculty disarmed.

John- Faculties on most campuses and in most departments have been taken over by so-called progressives who believe government should have the monopoly on force. They remember the facts that support their leftist opinion, and ignore the inconvenient truth that we are our own first responders.
Rachel- facts are stubborn things. These are the people we let teach our children.
Paul- at taxpayer expense.
rob- gun control.. like Mexico.

Rachel-John, you described the political bias of faculty. That brings another article to mind that really shows political bias, but it has a happy ending. In Corvallis Oregon, a subcommittee of the Corvallis City Council held a hearing to discuss a ban on open loaded carry of firearms. Second Amendment supporters showed up and spoke up. It looks like the voice of self-defense was heard. The vast majority of the testimony was for the right to bear arms. One gentleman who testified was a VietNam Veteran. He was the first person to testify, and he was offended by the Cuban flag stuck to the back of a laptop belonging to a member of the city’s sub-committee. The veteran noticed that nowhere in the room was a Flag of the United States on display. The (Police )Chief and the (City)attorney seemed to be trying to say in as diplomatic of a way as possible that the proposed ordinance banning loaded open carry was meaningless. It changes nothing in the way the officers would be able to respond. If no procedural changes, why go forward?
comment- good for Oregon firearms owners. You have to show up and speak up to win.
comment- they did.. so far.

Gary -Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper has flip-flopped his opinion on firearms more times than a fish out of water. After the murders in an Aurora movie theater, Hickenlooper said he was skeptical that new gun regulations could stop criminals. Hickenlooper flopped again after the murders at Sandy Hook elementary school when he agreed to universal background checks. Note that universal background checks would have done nothing in the case of the Sandy Hook murders. Note that the Colorado’s universal background checks in place, they did not stop the 2013 Arapahoe High School attack.

Paul -Well the mayor of Saint Louis Missouri is consistent in his anti-gun position. Mayor Francis Slay called for a federal or state ban on all guns in major US cities. Quote “Our neighborhoods will not be safe until there is federal – or, failing that, state – action to stop the flow of handguns through our cities. I have repeatedly called for that in St. Louis.” Close quote. The mayor said this was necessary after a recent shooting in Saint Louis. 18 year old Vonderrit Myers, Junior, was out of jail from a previous gun charge. He was wearing an ankle monitor to report his location to the police. Mister Myers also had a stolen gun and shot at police three times before the police shot back and killed him. That is why Mayor Slay says all citizens.. except the police.. should be disarmed.
Gary comment- The law says that criminals can’t have guns. That law doesn’t work, so we need more laws?
John comment- you can’t make this stuff up.
Rachel comment- any excuse for an anti-gun press release.

John-Speaking of being disarmed, Chuck E. Cheese is one of the few chains that ban firearms categorically at all locations. So in further proof that gun free zones really aren’t gun free, in comes this story from Charleston, South Carolina. The West Ashley Chuck E. Cheese was hosting several birthday parties Saturday night when an argument erupted and gun shots were exchanged. Two men were taken to the hospital by ambulance. Charleston Police questioned everyone as they left but only found balloons and birthday gifts. They are asking anyone with information to contact police.

Rob – Guns in a gun-free zone, and the couldn’t find a firearm after the event? The suspects must have used a ghost gun to wound those two men.

Rob -We’ve talked about the battling initiatives in Washington State. Now the Washington State Republican Party has endorsed Initiative 591. They did so after a meeting of the Washington Republican Party Executive Board. They also joined the Washington Council of Police and Sheriffs, Washington State Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Association, and 17 county sheriffs in opposing initiative I-594. Bloomberg is putting millions into the campaign. The National Rifle Association launched a video featuring “the 30 cal gal”, Seattleite Anette Wachter. Anette is a member of the U.S. Long Range Rifle Team. Her message focuses on the law enforcement opposition to I-594.

Paul- I tried repeatedly to get a spokesman to come on the show and advocate for initiative 591, but they don’t return my calls.

John- I watched the video.

Gary – Martin Niemöller First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Rachel- Good news from NSSF, in a press release earlier this week they stated that the majority of americans believe that “gun violence” is a criminal justice problem and not a public health problem. In the press release NSSF says that more than 8 out of 10 americans believe that the Centers for Disease Control should not spend any funds on studying “gun violence”, but instead should concentrate on viruses and diseases .

rob- that means that two out of 10 citizens believe my doctor should give me firearms advice.

Gary- ABC7 news in Washington DC is reporting that DC Councilmember David Grusso is suggesting that DC disarm the police, saying that “Officers shouldn’t have guns”. Grusso, speaking at a hearing on the stop and frisk policy of the district police department when he stated, “I think we ought to get rid of guns in the city and that police shouldn’t have guns.” Grusso then went on to state that his staff urged him not to share his opinion.

Paul- They voted for this crazy guy in Washington DC.

Rob- You heard how this joke ends. Citizens should be disarmed because they should call the police. The police should be disarmed because they can call the national guard. The National Guard should be disarmed because they can call the US armed forces. The US armed forces can be disarmed because they can call the United Nations.

Paul- That hasn’t worked any better for the citizens in Syria than it works for the citizens of Washington DC.
Rachel- The non-violent stuff will get you killed.

edit point-

Paul- We told you that Washington DC was going to pass a very restrictive carry law. DC Mayor Vince Gray signed legislation this week that defined who can legally obtain a license. The bill is valid for 90 days until the city council holds public hearings. Here are some of the many restrictions an honest gun owner faces in DC.

The law establishes a 1,000-foot “no-carry zone” around presidential motorcades and other large events involving dignitaries and public officials. That said, you must receive notice of the event and then fail to leave the zone in order to be arrested.

The law prohibits licensed gun-holders from carrying guns into government buildings.

There is no reciprocity. You can apply in person in DC and try to convince them you have a need to carry in the district. Good luck with that. The law is there for their convenience, not yours.

Living in a bad area does not justify demonstrated need to be issued a license. Having a stalker does.

Guns are prohibited on public transportation. We can’t have poor people who use public transportation carrying guns.

The legislation prohibits guns in universities and schools. I wonder what they teach in civics class.

Guns are restricted anywhere alcohol is served, so you can’t go to a restaurant in DC if you’re carrying.

Open carry is outlawed.

comment- Will any of these laws restrict the actions of criminals.
comment- They never have. These new laws won’t either.

Gun Quote

Gary- This comes from our regular guest and prolific author Kathy Jackson. She reminds us what it means to train for self-defense. Kathy said-
“Education is mentally learning what to do.
Training is physically learning what to do under the watchful eye of a coach who can correct any errors you might unintentionally make.
Practice is repeatedly doing the task until it’s second nature.
Testing is doing what you’ve been taught, trained, and practiced, under conditions that allow you to objectively measure how well you can do the task.
Reading a book or watching a video isn’t training. Competition isn’t training. Regular practice isn’t training. All of these are good things, but none of them are training.”

Rachel- Training is physically learning what to do while a coach corrects your mistakes. Practice is repeating the physical action perfectly until it is second nature. Training check! Who needs training?

Paul-Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

advertisement Concealment Solutions

Segment 3 Interviews

Segment 4 DGUs

John –A San Antonio homeowner heard a man breaking into his Jeep at 6:30am on Friday morning and, after he armed himself, he confronted the burglar. He was holding the man until police could arrive when the burglar made a run for it. The homeowner then shot him in the leg but the man managed to get away. The burglar showed up at a hospital later Friday morning with the wound where police arrested him. It is legal in Texas to use deadly force to protect property.
John- Yes but we are not cops and it is not our job to hold people for the police.

Rachel- A man was shot in Ottumwa, Iowa. Clinton Leedom had a history of domestic violence that stretched back several years. He threatened to kill his wife several times. On the day he died, Leedom repeatedly put a knife to his wife’s throat and threatened her. He did it again and his wife shot and killed him. The county attorney ruled Leedom’s death as self-defense.

Paul- some politicians would like to see Mrs. Leedum disarmed. They would prefer a dead victim rather than a dead assailant.

Rob- This next DGU takes place in Boone County, Missouri. William Harper entered a residence looking for someone. The residents said the man Harper wanted wasn’t there. Harper refused to leave, pulled a gun and began beating the residents. The residents shot Harper. He was treated for his gunshot at a hospital and taken to the Boone County Jail. Harper was charged with trespassing, assault, and unlawful use of a weapon and remains in jail until he produces a $5,500 bond. The assault took place at 2AM.
Paul- nothing good happens after midnight.
Gary- this sounds like a midnight debt collection for a drug deal.
Rachel- Why would you open your door to a stranger at 2AM.
Paul- Why would you open to a stranger unarmed?

Rachel- Gun Check? Where is your gun?

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at
Polite Society Podcast.com We hope you’ll share them with a friend.

Hello again, folks – You may remember me as the bisexual who write in some time ago about “coming out” as a gun owner, and how it compares to “coming out” as LGBT. Let me say that I truly appreciate your response – It was very encouraging, and has actually inspired me to take serious steps towards getting a local chapter of Pink Pistols started (It’s a national organization promoting CCW in the LGBT community). I’ve had a chance to take a couple of LGBT friends shooting since I last wrote in, and it’s amazing the change it makes in someone when they realize that guns aren’t just something bad guys can use against them, but also something they can use to protect themselves. I’ve inoculated at least two so far in the past few months, and I plan on more. I’ll have to start etching tally marks in my rifle stock to keep track of how many conversions I’ve caused.

Anyway, I wanted to weigh in on the trainer who refuses to teach Muslims in her courses. While I understand where she is coming from, and (like Paul) support private businesses’ right to deny service to anyone, including the rights of bakers to not bake cakes for gay weddings if they so choose, I am truly torn on this topic. While I do believe the trainer has a right to not do anything that makes her feel uncomfortable, this is religious discrimination, pure and simple, and that bothers me. It’s a civil rights issue, and we wouldn’t tolerate it if she said “No jews” or “No black people,” but because of a number of atrocities committed by a violent and uncivilized minority within the Muslim community, public opinion in the US is so against Muslims that we seem to be okay with this. It’s not actually illegal as far as I can tell, because religious discrimination appears only illegal in the fields of employment, housing, public facilities, and a few others, but I don’t think it’s right.

As much as the rest of the country hates the Westboro Baptist Church, nobody is refusing to serve Christians because they’re technically of the same religion as the Westboro Baptists. Why would we refuse to serve Muslims because they happen to share the same religion as some extremist nutbags like the Taliban? If we have reason to believe that someone is dangerous or extremist, then by all means we should avoid them and definitely not teach them to shoot, but just because someone is Muslim doesn’t mean they’re dangerous.

For the record, I don’t follow any organized religion, and have my issues with almost all of them.

rob- if your religion tells you to enslave or kill me, then no, I don’t have to serve or instruct you.
Rachel- well said, Rob.

Rachel- The next email is from Thomas

Hello
This letter is in response to the instructors who refused teach any Muslim shooter. While l do believe that a business should have the right to refuse to provide products or services to somebody, as long is that refusal is not racially motivated. Most of us have met a few nasty customer that we would love to bitch slap and kick their asses out on to the street! But a refusal based on upon a person’s religious beliefs can be discriminating in nature.

That being said, l refuse to instruct any female Muslim shooter how to shoot!

Now my problem with female Muslims is that l am not allowed any physical contact with them. The husband insisted that l tell him first, then he would address issue. Umm……..no way!

While am teaching a first time shooter, l stand very close behind them and watch them like a hawk. And l stay close until l feel confident that you are following my instructions and being safe.

You must do everything that l am instructing you to do! If your muzzle direction become unsafe, then l have to take control the situation physically at times. If l have to stop your hand or any arm movement, then l will stop it! Or if it is a minor issue, l may tap you on the shoulder as well as a verbal command. Sometimes the noise level in a range may be quite loud and a tap on the shoulder may be required to get your attention. But since l am forbidden to have any physical contact with these students, l lose the ability to safely control my environment.

While this a rare occurrence and it has only happened to me once. My safety concerns for the group, outweighs any respect for a religious belief!
Thomas

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

The organization Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership reposted my old article on armed women. So did author L. Neil Smith I wrote a new article about activism and the Gun Rights Policy Conference. I meet a lot of people who say they support armed self-defense. It is hard to take them seriously if they can’t get themselves to the GRPC. John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

John – I did a post yesterday about the late Marshall Brown. He was a reporter that passed away on Friday. I say reporter and not journalist because that is what he was. The reason I did a post on an old reporter is because he was one of us – a gun guy who believed in gun rights. Though he had received a number of awards from the Associated Press, his most cherished award was the James Madison Award for Journalists from the Second Amendment Society. Given the state of the mainstream media at all levels, it will be hard to find anyone like him anymore.

Link for the show’s Go Fund Me to purchase equipment and shiping to stream GRPC 2015.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, October 8th, 2014. I’m Rachel Malone.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we have a recorded interview with Vik Khanna from the gun rights policy conference.

Rachel- I had a girls’ shopping date with a friend of mine today…..a holster and ammo shopping date, that is. We found her a great holster at GT Distributors that allows her to carry a Glock 23 concealed. For a girl with a smaller frame, that’s pretty sweet.

John – Nothing really to report since Sunday afternoon. I’m waiting for my invitation to Media Day at SHOT Show. I understand that Paul and Susan have gotten their invitations. I hope they will put in a good word for me!

John -The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has a long history. Recently it is a history of corruption and incompetence. There is a website called “clean up ATF” where the field agents complain about their management. Unfortunately, the management retaliates if anyone complains too loudly. They tried to make an example of ATF field agent Vincent Cefalu. Agent Cefalu went to court in his wrongful termination case last week. This week the judge dismissed ATF’s attempt to fire Cefalu. The judge ruled that unfounded charges must be removed from his personnel record, the ATF owes Cefalu for his legal costs, the agency must restore Cefalu’s retirement funds by the end of the month, and they must pay an undisclosed settlement award. After the verdict, agent Cefalu made an open post addressed to ATF Director B. Todd Jones and Deputy Director Thomas E. Brandon.

“You allowed the agency to abuse me and my family for eight years only to admit you were wrong. Nothing in the case changed over the last two years, yet you refused to settle, continued wasting taxpayers’ dollars and precious court time only to do what you should have done years ago.. You still have to reconcile not only keeping the managers responsible for this on your payroll, but promot[ing] them. You have been aware of the perjury, false statements … gross mismanagement and waste, fraud and abuse by members of your executive staff and field managers and have done nothing. In fact you went to heroic measures to defend them.

“My true win comes from the knowledge that the field does not and will not accept your reckless leadership and [is] not afraid to call you out anymore.”

With bad managment like this, no wonder there is a morale problem at the ATF. Yeah, and their agency lawyers are spending time fighting internal lawsuits rather than prosecuting violent criminal behavior.

Rob- There are similar problems at the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa said eleven whistleblowers in the FBI say the bureau is targeting them for termination in retaliation for their revelations about FBI wrongdoing. Senator Grassley is the ranking Republican on the Senate Committee on the Judiciary. The FBI set out to punish whistleblowers in a way the whistleblowers could not oppose. They were served with Loss of Effectiveness orders and warned that their performance is suffering and that they could soon be fired. These letters bypass the FBI’s Office of Professional Responsibility, so the whistleblowers would never have a chance to protest their evaluation. Quoting Senator Grassley, “It’s stereotypical treatment of whistleblowers by the executive branch.” These letters sent to the FBI employees mark the first major case showing how newly appointed FBI Director James B. Comey may react to internal whistleblowers. If these allegations are true, the FBI’s treatment of whistleblowers stands in stark contrast with how it treats agents who have been found by [internal investigators] to have committed actual, disciplinable offenses,” The senator cited the case of an FBI agent who was having a relationship with a foreign citizen and had divulged sensitive information. The agent was never sent a Loss of Effectiveness (LOE) letter, and the agent’s case was handled through the Office of Professional Responsibility, he said.

Rachel- The Indianapolis Star researched violent crimes committed with a firearm during the last five years. They found three thousand of examples where prosecutors bargained away the firearms charges for a guilty plea to a lesser offense. The plea bargains make life easier for prosecutors. The plea bargains also cost lives when violent criminals are returned to the streets to kill again. One such criminal was Leandrew Beasley. Beasley was a drug dealer who shot several people while he should have been serving time in jail for his prior convictions. Many of the criminals studied had a long list of prior arrests. This was particularly true of murderers. Evidently murder takes practice. The report concluded that prosecuting repeat felons under existing laws would save lives.

Rob -Indianapolis is not alone in costing innocent lives. Los Angeles is stuck on stupid and passes more gun restrictions while their crime rate goes up. The LA City Council voted to ban the possession of “high capacity” magazines within city limits. While the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that restrictions on concealed carry had to be eased, the LA County Sheriffs Department refused to comply with the judges’ ruling. The LA City Council lobbied the state legislature to ban “single shot” handguns, a ban which was implemented on the state level. At the state level, California restricted lead ammo, expanding criminal firearm storage rules, requiring safety certificates for owners of long guns, and expanding background checks. All the while, crime rose in Los Angeles. According to the Los Angeles Times, LA’s “overall violent crime rate is up 7.6 percent year to year. Aggravated assaults increased by nearly 20 percent. and the incidence of rape was up 7 percent.

rachel comment- Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

john comment- the politicians will keep selling gun control as long as the voters will buy it.

Rachel- Pro-Mag is a magazine and gun component manufacturer with a considerable share of the market. They moved their business from anti-gun California to pro-gun and pro-business Arizona. General manager Mike Kurvink said that the move was sparked by California’s gun and business laws that made it nearly impossible to do business. They took 200 employees and 40 truck loads of equipment with them as they moved to Phoenix.
comment- well done, Pro-Mag

John -Here is a story of progress for Alabama gun owners. The use of sound suppressors for hunting became legal as of October first. Federal tax stamps are still required. Until earlier this year, the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources prohibited the use of suppressors/silencers. Now Alabama joins thirty other states who allow hunters to use suppressors while hunting.

Several countries consider hunting without a suppressor to be rude since the noise bothers the neighbors. Those countries didn’t have alcohol prohibition in the 1930s and didn’t have our firearms laws that were supposed to control the organized crime that grew out of prohibition.
comment- using a suppressor makes you a good neighbor.
comment- John, are you going to get a suppressor for your pig gun?

Rob -A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth pulls on its pants. Anti-gun activist Mark Kelly lied on national television about how firearms transactions occur without a background check. Kelly said only 60 percent of all gun sales occur with a background check. The statistic is false and misleading. The data comes from a few hundred phone interviews conducted 20 years ago. The limited data includes sales made before background checks were required by law. That is a fact you won’t hear on CNN.

comment-John – And THAT is why we have listeners to the Polite Society Podcast

Rachel -The intolerance of anti-gunners has reached a new high. Nino Ferlaino, a seasonal landscaping employee of the Crown Point, Indiana Lakes of the Four Seasons gated community was fired on July 2nd for merely owning a gun. His supervisor asked him if it was true he carried a firearm to which Mr. Ferlaino replied that he owned a firearm but did not carry it at work. Ferlaino was fired because the gated community had a “no tolerance policy”. Mr. Ferlaino is now suing the Lakes of the Four Seasons Property Owners Association Inc. for actual and punitive damages, attorney’s fees, and an injunction preventing them from taking similar actions against other employees. The homeowner’s association’s are in violation of an Indiana law passed in 2011 which forbids employers from asking if their employees own guns. Moreover, most employees have the right to store their firearm in their vehicles while at work.

john Comment – I hope this group of anti-gunners has deep pockets
rob Comment – and that Mr. Ferlaino takes a lot of their money.

John – With Election Day less than a month away, it is important for gun owners and gun right supporters to know who our friends are, who only pays lip service to the Second Amendment, and who really is after our guns. To find who who is pro-gun, we suggest checking out the NRA Political Victory Fund site as well as those from the many state-level organizations. To make it easier to figure out who pays lip service or hates us, Everytown Moms for Illegal Mayors have released their own endorsements. As Bob Owens of BearingArms points out, Bloomberg didn’t want to be seen doing the endorsements himself. You will find such anti-gun luminaries as Cal AG Kamala Harris, CT Gov Dan Malloy, and NY Gov Andrew Cuomo on the list along with others who pretend to support the Second Amendment like Senators Kay Hagan, Mark Udall, and Mary Landrieu.

Rob -Connecticut got this one wrong. Scott Lazure was a security guard. He had a concealed carry permit in Connecticut. You may not know that Connecticut allows open carry with a concealed carry license, and Scott was open carrying. The police certainly forgot that open carry is allowed. In Connecticut, there is also no requirement to inform the police that you have a concealed carry permit. Police approached Scott, and asked to see his identification. He refused, since a citizen is not required to produce identification unless they are charged with a crime. This went to court and Scott won. The judge told the police to return Scott’s firearm. That is when the issuing authority, the state Board of Firearms Permit Examiners, revoked Scott’s permit to carry. Now that decision is headed to court. It seems likely that Michael Lawlor, the undersecretary for criminal justice policy and planning for Governor Dannel Malloy, sent down word to deny Scott Lazure’s permit. Governor Malloy is in a heated race for Governor against the pro-gun candidate Tom Foley. The police need guidance and leadership. That starts from the top, and Connecticut gun owners should be involved in this race for governor.

Rachel- This officer has his internal compass set and it guides his actions. Officer Ben Hall was going to cite a woman for driving her 5 year old without a car seat. The woman agreed that she needed a car seat, but said her family had fallen on some hard times recently. Her car had been repossessed along with her daughter’s car seat. Now they didn’t have the money for a new car seat. The officer could have fined her and given her a ticket. He’s done exactly that before, but not this time. Officer Hall bought her a car seat instead. Hall said “..what she was going through.. was something anyone could have been going through. Giving her a ticket.. doesn’t solve the problem.. I talked to the mother about different organizations that give out car seats but it was Friday night.. and we needed something right now.”

rob comment- because if we criticize the police when they get it wrong then we have to recognize them when they get it right.

John -Law enforcement understands violence, but the politicians are playing games with people’s lives in New York, Tony Oliva writes at his blog “Bullets First”. He documented a one man crime spree by a convicted rapist in New York. The criminal attempted one abduction in a gun-free zone of a shopping center parking lot. He later kidnapped and raped a second woman at gunpoint. The criminal kidnapped a second man and made him drop him off at a college campus. Another gun free zone. In short, a violent rapist gets released from jail, quickly gets a gun despite the New York SAFE Act, chooses gun free zones to attack victims and is finally caught on a gun free zone college campus about to repeat his crimes all over again. This is as close to proof as we will ever find that firearms restrictions disarm honest citizens and not criminals.

Rob- Gun Quotes- “We shall have lost something vital and beyond price on the day when the state denies us the right to resort to force…” – Justice Louis Brandeis in The Brandeis Guide to the Modern World, 1941.

Rachel -This DGU was sent in by Scott who lives in Texas. Three intruders broke into a home just west of Houston in Katy, Texas. One of the homeowners was jumped and tackled by two masked intruders who taped his arms and feet. They tried to get into his safe. The homeowner played dead when the thieves tried to choke him. Quote “All I could think about was my daughter.” The thieves ransacked the two-story home. At one point the homeowner raised his head and the the thieves said, quote “if you look up again, we’ll kill you.” The homeowner opened his gun safe and waited for the thieves.

John -Despite its western reputation, Texas has some work to do on its firearms laws. Four armed men entered a bar in Northwest Harris County. Most of the crowd had gone home. It was after closing time as the staff cleaned up EJ’s Place. A few customers lingered. One was a regular who routinely walked the female staff to their cars after closing. The four criminals ordered everyone to lie face down on the ground. That is when one of the regular customers shot and killed two of the armed thieves. The other two criminals fled. Under Texas law, even licensed carriers can’t have guns in bars. That could explain why the armed customer who saved lives left the bar before police arrived.

Rob -The police are minutes away when you need them. A Lake Elsinore, California couple called police when an intruder tried to enter their house just before 11 pm Sunday night. The male homeowner retrieved his handgun and shouted to the intruder that he was armed. The intruder smashed in a window anyway. The homeowner fired and the intruder fled. Paramedics took the intruder to a local medical center where he died of his injuries. The police do not expect to press charges against the homeowner.

rachel comment- There is some justice even in California.
john comment- I wonder if the criminal was stupid, or intoxicated.

rachel -A domestic dispute escalated and ended in a self-defense shooting. An unmarried couple in Lima, Ohio argued in front of the woman’s parents. First the man was asked to leave, and then the man was forced to leave. The homeowners called police. The man returned later after the police had left.. That is when the man and a friend, Markquis Hall and Ja’Taven Dukes began shooting at the house. The family called police again and the pregnant woman hid with her 9 month old baby in a hall closet. The woman is recorded on the 911 call saying, ““He’s shooting. He has a gun and he’s shooting on the inside and there’s an infant in here. Can you all please hurry up.” Hall and Dukes, both in their mid 20s, were shot as they broke through a window to enter the home. Dukes died and Hall was arrested by police at St. Rita’s Medical Center seeking treatment for a gunshot wound.

comment- Thank god someone had a gun.

Rob- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.
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(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Rachel: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…

John: stay safe,
Rob: be aware,
Rachel: and we’ll see you down the road.

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Sunday, October 5th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we have some audio from the Gun Rights Policy Conference featuring Massad Ayoob talking about gun-free zones.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about some anti-gun laws that got signed into law in California this week
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have 2 gun quotes for you today.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and in our DGU segment we talk about a young woman in Las Vegas whose stalker wasn’t stopped by a protection order.
Gary: I’m Gary Harpster and we have a discussion about Bug out Bags
Rachel: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 273 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul – 1)Holy cow! GRPC was AMAZING! Talked to a lot of people, got to get to know a little bit some people that I have considered my heroes for a long time.
2)We are partnering with Ammoland (thanks Fredy Reihl) and NJ2AS (thanks Frank Fiamingo) to live stream next year’s GRPC. I have a little bit of equipment to acquire before that happens.
3)Susan got her gun
4)Truck issues AGAIN!
5)Greg in Bremmerton
6)Chaz
7)We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

Rob- Dry practice. I wrote an article defending a woman’s right to self-defense.
GRPC, Tom Gresham (70 hours is easy), NRA board member Maria Heil, Dr. John Edeen, Vik Khanna, Charles Heller, Gary Daugherty and Sherry, Kimberly Morin from Woman’s Defense League of New Hampshire. John Fund from National Review. Chris Bird. Chris Knox. (Jeff didn’t make it.) Eddie Fulmer from ‘Bama Carry, and Paul Valone from Grass Roots North Carolina, Larry Pratt.. oh, and Dr. John Lott. We’ll have them on our show. I also met Rhonda Ezell from the Ezell vs Chicago lawsuit. We almost got to meet Shaneen Allen from New Jersey.

John- Thanks to a suicidal pyromaniac at the FAA’s Chicago radar facility, I didn’t make it to this year’s GRPC but not for lack of trying. My first flight was canceled, I got rebooked on another flight at an airport an hour’s drive away, and then that flight was canceled after I sat at the airport for 3 hours. Next year Phoenix! And in better news, my daughter and her husband announced yesterday at their “gender reveal party” that it will be a girl – Olivia Grace. I need to start shopping for a Cricket rifle in either pink or pink camo!

Rachel- Not nearly anything as exciting or dramatic as everything y’all experienced at GRPC! However, I did sight in my EOTech for the Zombie Run and even got to do some shooting at the rifle marksmanship clinic I helped to instruct last weekend while y’all were in Chicago. It was the first rifle fundamentals training course at Battle Road USA, and it’s designed to help prepare shooters for the more advanced courses we offer (Combat Carbine, Precision Rifle, Camouflage and Stalking, etc.). We pushed shooters hard but they responded well and showed good improvement. One of my favorite parts was the long distance segment on Sunday afternoon – some of the group took centerfires out to the long distance range; I stayed with the rimfire shooters and we took .22’s out to 100 yards. Everyone learned a lot about trajectory, wind, and the importance of being solid in fundamentals.

Rachel- Speaking of Rhonda Ezell, who we met at the Gun Rights Policy Conference; the case of Ezell v. City of Chicago challenged the city’s code by asserting that the regulations involving installation and operation of gun ranges inside city limits are burdensome. This week U.S. District Court Judge Virginia Kendall agreed with the Second Amendment Foundation. The judge found the city’s zoning and requirements regarding hours of operation were unfounded. Judge Kendall quoted Chicago police officials who “admitted that they had no data or empirical evidence that any criminal impact would occur due to the presence of a firing range, or that (the impact) would be lessened by placing ranges in manufacturing districts.” SAF executive vice president Alan Gottlieb said, “our persistence in this issue.. caused the city to actually repeal many of the rules we challenged, even before the court could address them. That’s an indication the city knows there were problems with the code as written, and it demonstrates that when an in-depth analysis of gun laws is undertaken that requires proponents to prove those laws would be effective, they can’t.” SAF attorney Alan Gura added, “Every day on which Chicago loses some of its unconstitutional laws is a better day than the one before. This latest decision brings Chicago that much closer to the rest of America, where responsible, law-abiding people can practically access gun ranges for safety training and recreation.”

Rob comment- we saw Alan Gura at GRPC too.

Rob- I have a lot to apologize for. I’m from California, so let me apologize for my crazy California Senator, Dianne Feinstein. She was one of the original authors of the 1994 “assault weapons ban”. The ban outlawed modern firearms with “military style features” such as pistol grips, bayonet mounts, adjustable stocks, flash hiders or a standard capacity magazine. The senator put out a press release this month that claims her ban reduced crime. Experts who study the use of firearms in crimes say the exactly the opposite. Duke University public policy experts Philip Cook and Kristin Goss wrote that “There is no compelling evidence that (the ban) saved lives.” A report from the United States Department of Justice said, “We cannot clearly credit the weapons ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence. Should (the ban) be renewed, the ban’s effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement.” Those facts don’t matter when you’re crazy like my Senator.

Rachel comment- crazy is right. I tried to explain a few of California’s regulations to my new shooter’s class last summer and the girls thought I was making it up.

John -Guns and Ammo magazine released their list of the best states for firearms owners, and for concealed carry holders in particular. The ranking is based on several factors. They recorded the the issuing scheme for permits, the extent of reciprocity, the amount of training required to obtain the license, the required fees and the use of force in self-defense like stand-your-ground laws.

Arizona ranked first, Utah ranked second and Alaska ranked third. The Washington DC ranked last. I had to list the states where we live, so Rachel, Texas ranked 12th, Paul and Susan, South Dakota ranks 19th, North Carolina ranked 30th, Gary, Illinois ranked 42nd, and Rob, California ranked 50th.

Paul- comment- Arizona won this comparison last year as well. Arizona Citizens Defense league deserves credit. Their hard work year after year pays off.

John – NC got marked down because they don’t issue non-resident licenses. Given we accept all other state’s permits including non-resident ones, what’s the big deal.

Paul- California added to its list of firearms restrictions. California Governor Jerry Brown signed two bills into law. One law allows the police to seize firearms from any legal gun owner with the request of a family member, judge or law enforcement officer. Wait until the divorce lawyers get their hands on this one. The Governor signed a bill requiring all toy guns to be painted bright colors. The bill could make some of our “red” guns illegal. Also, some criminals have started painting their real firearms in bright colors.

Rob comment- California, where your right of armed self-defense goes to die.

Rachel comment- Just wait until the politicians start using the firearms restraining order on each other.

Break

Rachel -New Jersey maintained its reputation for being hostile to a culture of self-defense. The Atlantic City Council passed two measures this week. One outlawed the sale, possession or use of any imitation firearms unless they are colored in bright, fluorescent colors or transparent. Pistols that use metal caps are banned from being sold to minors. The other bill would eliminate the city’s liability for the actions of police when they are working off duty as security guards.

John -Grass Roots North Carolina pays a clipping service to search the media sources for firearms use in the state. It was a year ago that North Carolina allowed concealed carry holders to enter restaurants that served alcohol. The anti gun politicians predicted blood flowing out of the bars and into the streets. It didn’t happen. Not once. They tried to sell a horror show.. and history delivered a yawn instead. This isn’t the first time that politicians and the media said the sky would fall. They told us a chicken little story about carrying concealed in state parks. That was another yawn. Now it is North Carolina Agriculture Commissioner Steve Troxler’s turn to cry wolf. The Commissioner says he will post the North Carolina State Fair against concealed carry even though state law prohibits him from doing so.

Rob comment- politicians sure show their crazy during an election year.

Rachel comment- when is halloween? Could that be the excuse?

Paul comment – Troxler is a Republican proving that gun control is not just the province of Democrats.

Rob -It looks like there is some dirty money at play in Connecticut politics. Democratic Gov. Dannel Malloy and Republican Tom Foley will face each other in a close general election in November. Malloy campaigned on gun control, and Foley opposed it. Civil rights groups like the Connecticut Citizens Defense League support Foley. Someone funded a third party candidate to run with a pro-gun position. Joe Visconti says he is a tea party candidate and his advertisements show him holding firearms. Until he ran for governor, Visconti was not active in gun-rights activism.

They elected the anti-gun Democrat in Virginia when the libertarian candidate siphoned a few percent of the vote from the pro-gun attorney general Ken Cuccinelli. It later turns out that the libertarian was funded by liberal democrats.

Paul- Anthony sent a story link to us in email. Fox news is reporting that the NRA is being outspent in Washington by 7 to 1 on the coming November elections. As we have talked about here before there are 2 competing initiatives in Washington state and it looks like BOTH might pass. Millions are being dumped into the race by people who are certainly rich enough to buy their own armed security, and sometimes their own operational tanks.

Rachel -The California legislature is working to outlaw lead ammunition, and poor academic studies of lead is one of ways they are doing it. That is why honest research is important. A study, out of Iowa State University looked at eagles in the wild. The authors tested fecal samples from nest areas for lead levels. They found detectable lead levels in most samples, but in the majority of samples, the levels were low and within the range of birds in lead-free sites, and within background environmental lead levels. There was no statistically significant difference in samples collected in the winter versus the spring or in those collected near a river (meaning plenty of food sources) or far from a river (hypothesized to be more likely to scavenge gut piles and thus exposed to lead ammunition). There was also no correlation between lead exposure and the number of deer harvested in an area.

John comment- Ah, but will the facts stop the environmentalists and the anti-gun politicians?

Rob- what did you do today, Dad? Son, I tested eagle poop for lead.

Rob-The Second Amendment Foundation has been bringing lawsuits against cities in Utah. These cities violated Utah’s pre-emption laws. For example, up until Wednesday night, it was illegal to possess a firearm or knife with a blade more than 3 inches long in a city-owned park in Santa Clara, Utah. Councilman David Whitehead said, “We’ve used a knife longer than 3 inches to cut cake while having church parties in the park.” The city council said they didn’t know the regulations were on the books.

John –New York City is at it again, and it seems that they are borrowing from the California legislatures playbook this time. New York City Assemblyman Brian Kavanagh has introduced legislation that would allow gun confiscation by just bringing an allegation. This quote is directly from the Assemblyman. “So this is a bill that would permit family members or friends or medical professionals or law enforcement or really anyone who’s concerned that somebody having to access to guns poses a serious danger to go to a court and present evidence of that, and if the court were persuaded, they would be able to issue a temporary order preventing the person from acquiring or possessing guns,” Kavanagh explains. “The person who is the subject of the order would then have an opportunity to appeal that decision.”

Rob- can we get the gun rights removed from these politicians?

Paul -The FBI twists statistics to please their political masters. The latest evidence is in an FBi report released last week. The report claims that active shooters became more common from 2000 to 2013. That claim contradicts the statistic that mass shooters are becoming less common. Note carefully that “Active shooter” and “mass shooting” do not mean the same thing. The FBI statistics include events that no one would call a mass shooting.

The FBI also deliberately excluded killings connected to gang rivalries or the drug trade. Rather than basing its definition on how many people were killed, the FBI report focuses on homicidal intent. If the perp only wounds his victims, or if he doesn’t even manage to do that, he still gets counted. Fewer than half of the incidents in the FBI report qualify as mass shootings.

Dr. John Lott will have a report out soon that untangles the FBI claims. In the mean time, note which networks cite the FBI statistics. Those networks are revealing more about their bias than they reveal about the changing habits of violent criminals.

BREAK

Rachel -In what should be called “News of the Weird”, MSNBC is blaming the NRA for making the ebola crisis worse. Honestly, we are not making this up. In a column published on Thursday, Krystal Ball and Anne Thompson say that the NRA’s opposition to President Obama’s anti-gun nominee for Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy, has made the situation worse because the US doesn’t have a Surgeon General. They say that Dr. Murthy could help ease people’s fears about the disease.

John Comment – This may be why re-runs of The Shark Tank have better Nielsen ratings than does MSNBC.

Rob- We got to hear Vic Kahanna talk about Dr Murthy at GRPC

Rob – With all the attention being paid to restaurant chains that are kow-towing to Bloomberg’s Moms, it is great to read about a restaurant that rewards customers for taking their self-protection seriously. Bergeron’s Restaurant in Port Allen, Louisiana gives a 10% discount to customers who are carrying their firearms. Owner Kevin Cox says, “Target Department stores banned guns and these people are banning guns. Don’t they realize that that’s where people with guns are going to go? I want to take the opposite approach. How can I make my place safer? When we have a gun, we’re all the same size.” Mr. Cox reports giving out 10-20 discounts daily. The discount at Bergeron’s Restaurant started for law enforcement and then they expanded the discount to cover concealed carry holders.

John -Being a police officer isn’t easy. Sometimes the police get it right, and sometimes they get it wrong. Last year, police arrested Sung-Ho Hwang after he entered a movie theater in New Haven, Connecticut. Hwang is an immigration attorney and president of the New Haven County Bar Association. Hwang was originally detained after 20 policemen responded to a call of a man with a gun. Hwang is also a licensed concealed carry holder. The theater was not posted a as a no-gun area. Police were going to let him go until the New Haven police Chief Dean Esserman, demanded Hwang be arrested. Hwang was initially charged with second-degree breach of peace and interfering with police. All charges were dropped.

Hwang said “We can’t live in a society where somebody decided that he has a personal objection to something even though it’s lawful. It’s not right for the Chief of Police to inject his personal opinions when he pursues a case. He needs to abide by the laws.”

Gary D comment- A city in Colorado settled a similar lawsuit this year.

Paul -In the United States, there is a quirk in the law for showing racial discrimination. A plaintiff only has to show there is a discriminatory outcome, not a discriminatory intent. That means Chicago has some explaining to do. The legal restrictions imposed on Chicago residents has resulted in a racially discriminatory selection against black concealed carry holders. Blacks and Hispanics are far less likely than whites to meet the many requirements to legally carry a firearm if they live in Cook county in general, and if they live in Chicago in particular.

We are not talking about a license to practice medicine; we are talking about armed self-defense which is recognized in the bill of rights as a universal human right. This means a judge could ask the politicians to defend every aspect of their restrictions.. and ask if the city and state’s fees and regulations placed a discriminatory and unwarranted burden on the black citizens of Chicago. To quote one of our favorite academics, Dr. John Lott said, “You really need to ask whether or not politicians are consciously trying to disarm certain groups of people.”

John -If you’ve bought a firearm recently, then you know the ATF requires us to disclose our race and ethnicity before we can buy a gun. The ATF says this this data is required by the Office of Management and Budget. OMB says they never required the data. Entering the wrong data or refusing to divulge the information is sufficient reason for the ATF to revoke a gun dealer’s Federal Firearms License. US Representative Diane Black from Tennessee sponsored a bill to remove the race and ethnicity data, or at least make it voluntary. The bill states- “The federal government may not require any person to disclose the race or ethnicity of the person in connection with the transfer of a firearm to the person.” Congressman Ted Poe of Texas said “This ATF requirement is intrusive and unnecessary. As long as the gun is purchased lawfully, race or ethnicity should be irrelevant.”

Gun Quotes
Rob- #1) If you have 10,000 regulations, you destroy all respect for the law. —Winston Churchill

Rachel #2) “You can spout all the anti-gun noise you want. You can tell me guns are ‘macho’ and ‘masculine’, and accuse me of trying to be like the ‘big boys’ if I carry one. I don’t care. I’ve been raped, and I’ve decided that I would much rather defend myself “than sit back quietly and be ‘ladylike’.” – Julie Batson (Found on the Cornered Cat Facebook Page)

Paul- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Audio of Massad Ayoob from GRPC 2014 “Targeting Gun Free Zones”

Segment 4 DGUs

John – Brandy Moreno took out a restraining order against Leo Henry. Henry was her ex-boyfriend. Brandy Moreno was so frightened for her safety and the safety of her children that she also got a handgun. She showed her 11 year old daughter how to use the firearm. That turns out to have been a very good decision. Before 4 AM Tuesday morning, Leo Henry broke into the home where he used to live. He broke into the home despite a restraining order. He stabbed Brandy Moreno several times. The attack continued until the 11 year old shot Mister Henry. Both Mister Henry and Ms Moreno were taken to Oklahoma University medical center for treatment. Court records show that Henry was charged in 2013 in Oklahoma County District Court with a misdemeanor count of domestic abuse assault and battery. The case was dismissed.

Gary commment- what if the young woman had been taught to call 911 instead of protecting herself with a firearm?

John comment- then the news story would probably be about a murder rather than a defensive use of a handgun.

Paul – (I REALLY want to do this one) Grand Rapids Michigan police are investigating a shooting at a bankruptcy court…. Well they are calling it an “accidental” shooting. What most of us would call it is a negligent discharge. a court security officer was “cleaning” his gun when he pointed the gun at his hand and pulled the trigger on a live round. Pulling the trigger is required to disassemble some guns for cleaning, but when I bought my Glock I was told of this by the sales rep ( and of course it is in the instruction book that you get with your gun). You might be asking “why the heck is this in with the DGU’s? Well I think that it is news in that this was someone who is around guns all the time and is paid to work with them. It only takes a second of distraction to ruin your day when working with a firearm. There are more models than just the Glock that require a trigger press to disassemble please take your time and whenever you are placing a gun in your hands to what my friend Charlie Foxtrot once said on the old GRRN forums. think to yourself “ok this is for reals”

Rob – A DGU that has REALLY been making the rounds on the internet. It is the story of a young Las Vegas woman who had a problem with a stalker. The young woman, who doesn’t want to be named, had enough problems that she got a restraining order. Luckily she didn’t stop there. She also got a gun. She was awakened at 1:15 am on Friday to the sound of her door being kicked in. The following quote is directly from her Imgur post “I’m writing this staring at the mess the police left for me, in a bit of a fog. After 6 months of stalking and threats against my life my stalker finally snapped and decided to kick my door in and make good on his promise.

“Out of fear, the past month I had begun sleeping with a chair propped against my front door, to give myself a few extra precious seconds in case of emergency. I shudder to think how differently things might’ve turned out had I not barricaded the door.

“I awoke around 1:15 am to the sound of the door giving way after one kick followed by the sounds of my stalker struggling to dislodge the chair while forcing his way inside. I jumped up and grabbed the gun I’ve learned to do everything even shower with.

“I stood at the top of my stairs and fired twice. Hitting him in the chest, I hear his scream, his disbelief that I’d stood up for myself.. 0 to 100 in milliseconds. I’ve never been so afraid in my life. I do not know if he is living, but I do know the police have him and that’s what helps the most.

“For months of him evading the police I began to question whether he was unstoppable. Untraceable. Houdini, he would murder me and get away with it. As of now I’m in a haze of guilt, surprise, relief and disbelief. I shook as the canines drag him out from his hiding place under a bush. I survived, where so many people do not. Holy shit, I survived.”

John comments- Stalking and rape are about power and control. I’m glad this young woman decided to protect herself.

Rachel – At 4:30 in the morning, a Houston area grandmother was cooking breakfast with her three granddaughters. That is when three armed men broke into her home. Fortunately, an adult son heard the disturbance. The son heard grandma say “please don’t hurt the girls” and grabbed his handgun. He shot two of the intruders. One of the criminals died on the scene and two escaped. The eight family members living in the home were unhurt.

The family runs a construction business, and police are investigating why they were targeted for the break in.

John – A Knoxville, Tennessee home invader found out the hard way that kicking in a man’s door will get you shot. Jeffrey Minor shot the home invader with his shotgun as his door was breached. According to Knoxville police, the suspect then fled on foot but not before shooting at Minor’s house with a handgun and then dropping it. He was arrested when he appeared at a local hospital for treatment for the gunshot wound to his arm. Police say that Minor was in fear of his life but are still investigating.

Rachel – Mark Vaughan recently sold Vaughan’s foods that he started. Mister Vaughan stayed on to help run the place in Moore, Oklahoma. That morning they’d fired an employee. The employee returned and stabbed a female employee working in the office. The attacker then cut off her head. The employee then attacked a second woman before Vaughan shot him. Vaughan was a reserve sheriff’s deputy.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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John Listener e-mail discussion

Email from Ken in AZ,

I heard you need more emails so, here we go.
How do we ensure the security of a Free State? The 2nd Amendment says by keeping and bearing arms, right?

Therefore, doesn’t it logically follow that 2A is saying it’s the duty of the citizen to keep and bear, as well as his right? I mean, if we aren’t keeping and bearing arms, we can’t ensure the security of anything! So, to be a good American, we have to.

It’s a pretty nifty system. The 2nd Amendment protects our right to keep and bear, and in turn, we protect it by keeping and bearing. And ’round and ’round and ’round it goes, each part supporting the other part. It’s an infinite feedback loop of freedom, to coin a phrase.

Ken S.
Phoenix, AZ
Free States of America

PS Thoughts and prayers for Bob Mayne of Handgun World Podcast as he is fighting cancer.

Paul- William emailed this one in.

A short one, plan on other topics later. You mentioned the Ruger LCR in 9mm. Moon clips are very fast for reloading wheel guns. That’s great for competition but don’t forget that moon clips are thin metal plates and therefore fairly easily bent. Carrying reloads that way may be great for speed but if the clip gets bent then you are dead in the water so to speak. I’d rather sacrifice a bit of speed than chance not being able to reload at all. Just my opinion.

Rob -A listener from South Carolina who asked that we don’t identify him on the air emailed this in.

Several episodes back there was some discussion about carry in your own home.
When I am home, I am in the place that should be the most secure. Consequently, I always have a Charter Arms Undercover .38 special in a pocket holster. I have other, heavy duty firearms in the home but the CA .38 is always handy and even when I take shower it is in a pants pocket in the bathroom with me.
Please take a look at this link and see if we qualify as a South Carolina Second Amendment group for your listing.
http://palmettocc.us/
Thanks for all you and crew do to help us stay informed and alert.

Rachel- Marc in Ohio emailed about a DGU we talked about on the last episode that we recorded.

Hello,
I’m sending you a link to a news story about a shooting in a town I work in. I have talked to officers on scene. The store clerk was open carrying a 1911. The thieves were so focused on the robbery they went right past the clerk. The clerk was shooting and walking backwards to a door. The clerk did not know there was a third thief watching outside the doorway. When this thug and the clerk met it scared the lookout and his shot at point blank was at the clerk’s hip. I’m told the clerk did an outstanding job shooting. The clerk even continued to shoot after being shot high in the hip with a hollow point .45 The thief that shot the clerk is the one still at large.
Capacity matters and the clerk emptied his 1911. Open carry did not alter the thieves plan. They had hoodies tied tight around their faces. Maybe the hoodies kept them from seeing the openly carried firearm.
The officer started his story to me by saying, “Did you hear the story about gun owners doing it right?”. No charges are expected to be filed on the clerk. http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/video-store-clerk-shoots-and-kills-2-of-3-armed-robbers-in-gunfight/

Marc from Ohio

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box. They are located by our old name, Politics and guns. Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- I posted two articles since our last show. I live in San Diego County, California. My sheriff prefers disarmed civilians. He says law enforcement will keep us safe. He is wrong. I wrote about the recent victims of violent crime in San Diego County.

I also wrote about some crazy feminists who said women promote rape by protecting themselves. More precisely, women promote rape culture on campus when they advocate awareness, avoidance and self-defense. That hit a nerve since I’ve asked my wife and daughter to practice awareness, avoidance and self-defense. Both articles are up at Clash Daily.. and they will be up at my blog and at Ammoland.

Paul Comment – Love the comment about seatbelts

John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

I did an article on Friday regarding an attorney running for the NC Ct of Appeals. Mark Davis was the lead attorney for the state defending NC’s emergency powers act that prohibited firearm possession off premises during a declared emergency. That case, Bateman v Perdue, was brought by GRNC and SAF and which was won by Alan Gura. My point was that even in non partisan elections we need to check out the candidates because, even with all their endorsements, they could really be anti-gun.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else. Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.