What would happen if a prospective adoptive parent didn't show up for court....?
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What would happen if a prospective adoptive parent didn't show up for court....?

I'm curious if any adoptive parents or anyone who knows about the legal court hearings in adoption could fill me in on what would happen if an every day joe smoe PAP didn't show up for the ruling on if they could "adopt" a child they've been planning on adopting, or not ?

Would this normally be grounds for a denial to adopt? Can anyone give me any examples of why a judge would refuse an adoption?

In case anyone is wondering, i think its outrageous that Madonna didn't show up to her foster child's third adoption hearing to find out if she can legally adopt him or not.

From MY point of view, (if I were a judge) not having a PAP show up for the court ruling (3 times)would give me grounds to reconsider their dedication to the child. The ruling should be serious. She should be there. LOW.

Unless the PAP had some very good reason (coma, death, etc) then they should defiantly be there if it was required.

MonkeyMama

I think if she really wanted him, she would have been there. Moved heaven and earth to be there.

Jennifer L

Madonna's adoption makes me want to scream, as a parent of a child adopted from overseas. The sheer arrogance of her going to court to get the existing adoption process changed JUST FOR HER and now being "too busy" to see the process through is galling.

You just don't do that. You don't walk into a foreign country and throw enough money at them so that they bend the rules for you. If someone chooses to adopt overseas, understanding and respecting the laws in the foreign country is paramount.

As to what the courts will do, I don't know. If they dissolve the adoption, there goes the money she's pouring into their country. If they don't dissolve the adoption, now the door is open for everyone to just walk in, adopt a child, and walk out. The court becomes a paper tiger.

I was worried from the beginning about the precedent that she was setting. But that probably didn't concern her in the slightest.

I generally feel that the phrase "adoptive parent entitlement" gets tossed around too much on this forum, but I completely agree on it being applied here. Maybe it's more "International Superstar Entitlement" than "adoptive parent entitlement", but the 'entitlement' part works, regardless.

So can we finally say she's British now (with all apologies to Brits out there) so that Americans can disown her?

Shelbi =)

I just wanted to let some of the people know that David's father had no choice but to put him in an orphanage. His mother died and his dad couldn't provide for him. It raises an eyebrow that she didn't show up THREE times, but then again look at her career! Shes a super star. Although I do think Madonna has shown good parenting skills in the past (with her daughter), I think that she should have tried harder to get to court that day. Hopefully everything works out with her and David.

...

OF course the SHOULD be there but it's not always required. the attorney can finalized it on their behalf. I do think however when a petition is enteres and there is the first heiring, the paps are required to show. Our magistrate wanted to ask un question, and my sons parents were also required to be the to answer questions too.

I don't know why anyone woldn't want to go, unless it's just not that important to them.

opedial

Well it is quite different here. The Children's Aid Society places the child on "adoption probation". Then we have monthly visits for about six months and the social worker writes a report. It then goes to the courts. We do not show up to court, we get a letter in the mail one day stating the children are legally ours.

The only person who could really stop the adoption is the social worker if she thought something was amiss. The judge has already terminated all parental rights BEFORE we have even been involved in meeting the children.

I would have loved hte opportunity to go to court, it would feel symbolic. But for sure if we were required to go to court we would have, and not showing up, barring any medical emergencies is NOT a good sign.

aloha.girl59

Unbelievable! I have been upset about Madonna's adoption of this little boy since the media first reported her intentions. David's father is still living and, though I'm not sure of the details, it sounded like he wasn't sure about allowing the adoption in the first place. I feel bad for this boy's father AND for the boy. I wish I could read the article but the link you provided must have expired or something. I will look it up elsewhere...I'm sure I can find it. Interesting question. If I was the judge, Madonna would have to just settle for her two bio kids. David would get to go home to his FATHER.

HappyMomAnna

I can't read the story for some reason the link has failed...

I can say a few things about this subject we were placed pre-adoptive and not foster to adopt because we didn't want any involvment in the termination of the parental rights of any children we adopted. We believe Foster Care is about reunification and that we would adopt children who were not going to be reunified--and who were not going to be adopted by their foster parents.... We didn't want to adopt "Wanted" children.

We were "classified" as Foster parents during the time the children were placed and until the adoptions were final. And there were two foster care hearings we did not attend.

In the US Foster care system by the time a family is placed as "Pre Adopt" judges have already made placement decisions--or placement steps have been made to rule and adoptive parent OUT long before the case is moved to an Adoption Judge.

In our case, there was ONE issue that may have caused the adoption to not be approved--but, it had nothing to do with us. It had to do with the fact their mother said she was Native American which triggered the state to check and Rule it out. This added 6 months to our time to finalize.

The foster hearing courts are not the same courts that "Approve" an adoption... In fact, the reality is that most adoption can be finalized without the adoptive parents or children even appearing in court... However, most adoptive parents want the court ceremony that is Offered when the courts approve an Adoption Petition.

An adoption petition is the legal paperwork that has generally taken a long time to put together. There is supposed to be a number of checks and balances... to be sure everything is done correctly.

In order to have the Adoption Petition even submitted to the court all the "approval" of the parents is way past done... In order to even submit the petition for adoption all the requirements have to have been met. Adoptive parents submitting an Adoption Petition have generally passed all the approval issues--and the Adoption is the final step usually seen as a special ceremony if the family wants to attend.

Foster Care hearings are all about the State--or government and being held accountable for their process. Did they meet the requirements under the law as far as the Child is concerned. These hearings are also about Reunification plans, services that have been offered to the parents, relative searches and their outcomes, the CASA reports, Where the state is in the caseplan... and if the state has found an Approved Adoptive placement.

The adoptive parents don't have much to add to the Foster hearings if they are even asked at all. We didn't attend in person (350 miles away) however we did listen by telephone and frankly there wasn't a lot to it... The caseworkers presented the status of the caseplan and the status of supervision of the children... Made sure they were getting their needs met as defined by the state--in our case that we send our daughter to pre-school and get a doctor and dentist...

Otherwise the Foster hearing didn't have anything to do with us. The steps to take in order to File the Adoption Petition were the places we could have been rejected and unless something big happened by the time the adoption petition is drawn up it is pretty much the same as a court house wedding... as long as the right papers are in order and everything is done according to law it shouldn't even make it to adoption finalization court if it isn't going to work out.

We didn't show up for Foster Hearings... as we were not foster to adopt. We were "Pre-Adoption" Placement which meant we did Not do the work of foster parents--we adopted the children we were placed with knowing (believing) the state had done the foster caseplan ethically and that the children we adopted were not wanted by relatives or a foster family that had them. I never really felt any reason to be all up in the Foster Plan.

We chose to not do foster to adopt because we did not want to be a party to the termination of parental rights. We did not want to have a conflict of interest.... we believe foster care is about reunification and we wanted to adopt children who would not be reunified... we didn't want to be involved in the obligation of Foster Parenting--when we really wanted to adopt.

Maybe in the future I will become a foster parent and attend all the foster parent hearings--because I am not motivated to adopt a child... but to help reunify a family. When I decide to do that work I will be at all the foster care hearings and make sure the children I care for and their parents have every chance the law allows to be reunified....

MamaKate is an Aunt!

I saw this too!! It makes me want to cry for little David. (I really do question the practice of international adoption anyway.)

How can could anyone think he is a priority to her? She asked for not one, not two, but THREE postponements for this hearing and THEN can't fit showing up to make her commmitment to the child in person into her busy schedule! Will she have time to spend with HIM? (One article I read said she barely has time to attend her Kaballah services with her family!) If I were the parent of a child who's PAP didn't show for court on that day of ALL days - I would challenge it right there!!!

Several the judges I have worked with would have denied the adoption because she has not demonstrated commitment to eith the child or her agreement to the father. Not to mention I live in the south and she would be reemed for being RUDE and wasting the court's time and energy! (We don't take kindly to disrespect 'round here! 'Specially when it come to kids!)

One really has to question her motives here! In five years in the Family Court, I have never seen a PAP miss a finalization hearing! All the parents I know presonally who have built their families families through adoption also took the day off to make their family "official".

Shame on her. From start to finish with this adoption; she has shown her selfishness - her illusion of altruism and humanitarianism is delusional.

And another thing : Don't you find it odd, I don't remember Lourdes being paraded for the camera like this poor child and yet everytime I turn on my computer or tv, there she is tucking him under her arm like a Versace clutch.

I hope little David will be ok... :(

Possum

But celebrities can do whatever they want - can't they??

You're so right Gersh - it's disgusting.
She thinks she's above the law - and can do whatever the hell she wants.
Sadly - she'll probably get away with this botched adoption also.
I feel great pain for this wee adoptee.
I bet he's told often that he should be super grateful.
UGH.

cmc

The only hearing for my daughter was to finalize the adoption. I was worried it might get postponed due to some paperwork glitch or something... But it was very laid back. The judge was just immediately congratulating us. So I think if we had not showed it wouldn't have been a big deal, and we would have to reschedule (although I can't imagine doing that). However if we missed the second time I think it would raise some questions, and by the third time I would imagine they would want a full report from our social worker.

momof3boys

It depends on each case because in some cases the PAP aren't always required to attend as some matters can just be handled by the courts. I know in the cases of most adoptions the judge makes his decision and then the lawyers are told the decision and the lawyers notify the Adoptive parents. Now if the courts required the PAP to be there and they didn't show up and it wasn't for a good reason (such as being in the hospital or something) then they could deny or atleast postpone the decision. Denials are giving if the PAP are found to be unfit, if the birth parents come forward wanting to stop the adoption, if one of the PAP dies it can be denied if the agency doesn't allow single parent adoptions......they have reasons but not showing up to court wouldn't always be a reason because like I said in most cases the actual decision isn't even given while the PAP are in court.

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