Why do we not Dance? - Adventist Online2019-09-15T09:41:22Zhttp://www.adventistonline.com/forum/topics/why-do-we-not-dance?id=1451550%3ATopic%3A794424&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI was trying to get some help…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8038832009-09-11T16:53:37.609ZEvehttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/EvelynFlores
I was trying to get some help here and it has evolved into a conversation about trees...sorry but I was sincere in my request it was not a platform to attack each other. So I am closing the discussions...
I was trying to get some help here and it has evolved into a conversation about trees...sorry but I was sincere in my request it was not a platform to attack each other. So I am closing the discussions... Wait... are you pro-tree or a…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8037762009-09-11T14:25:38.690ZTravishttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/SivartM
Wait... are you pro-tree or anti-tree?<br />
<br />
*is enjoying this off-topic discussion*
Wait... are you pro-tree or anti-tree?<br />
<br />
*is enjoying this off-topic discussion* And your point being ??? I am…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8036822009-09-11T13:30:24.975ZN Himhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/NHim
And your point being ??? I am not sure what this has to do with dancing. I guess I got left in the dark.
And your point being ??? I am not sure what this has to do with dancing. I guess I got left in the dark. I worship God as I am driving…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8036772009-09-11T13:28:42.245ZN Himhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/NHim
I worship God as I am driving my car. Is driving my car and act of reverence? There are many actions that would not be considered reverent. But we still can be worshipping Him while doing it.
I worship God as I am driving my car. Is driving my car and act of reverence? There are many actions that would not be considered reverent. But we still can be worshipping Him while doing it. Just because it was not done…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8036652009-09-11T13:25:40.448ZN Himhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/NHim
Just because it was not done in EGWs days ... does not mean that we can't do it now. God gave us a brain and he expects us to use it. We have become SO lazy that unless Ellen White directly approves of something ... we can't do it. We have become Ellen White robots.
Just because it was not done in EGWs days ... does not mean that we can't do it now. God gave us a brain and he expects us to use it. We have become SO lazy that unless Ellen White directly approves of something ... we can't do it. We have become Ellen White robots. all of it, John, please read…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8028862009-09-11T05:35:16.462ZStephen Billiterhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/StephenBilliter
all of it, John, please read 5T p. 491 and onwards. From the time before and after we enter the sanctuary we should be very reverent. Children 's stories are an irreverent disruption. There are many things that take away from the solemnity and sanctity of the Holy worship hour. Just because the pastor and church board approves, that doesn't mean God approves.<br />
<br />
Business and other announcements could be done differently. All worship in the sanctuary should be reverent, it focuses our mind on the…
all of it, John, please read 5T p. 491 and onwards. From the time before and after we enter the sanctuary we should be very reverent. Children 's stories are an irreverent disruption. There are many things that take away from the solemnity and sanctity of the Holy worship hour. Just because the pastor and church board approves, that doesn't mean God approves.<br />
<br />
Business and other announcements could be done differently. All worship in the sanctuary should be reverent, it focuses our mind on the greatness and goodness of God, instead of leading to the common and profane. Christ never did childrens st…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8028542009-09-11T05:26:58.954ZStephen Billiterhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/StephenBilliter
Christ never did childrens stories IN THE SANCTUARY DURING HOLY WORSHIP HOURS. the children run around collecting money and the people sing nursery rhymes and I've seen it take on a circus atmosphere.I have kids and grand kids, does that mean I advise them to help create gross irreverence in the House of God? I think we should have proper reverence for God especially during the worship hour. Why does worldliness have to keep pressing it's ugly attacks just for two hours a week?<br />
<br />
Children not…
Christ never did childrens stories IN THE SANCTUARY DURING HOLY WORSHIP HOURS. the children run around collecting money and the people sing nursery rhymes and I've seen it take on a circus atmosphere.I have kids and grand kids, does that mean I advise them to help create gross irreverence in the House of God? I think we should have proper reverence for God especially during the worship hour. Why does worldliness have to keep pressing it's ugly attacks just for two hours a week?<br />
<br />
Children not not have the right to disrespect God, they need to be taught by Godly parents, not turned loose like in the playground. They will grow up to disrespect God.<br />
<br />
Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.<br />
<br />
Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.<br />
<br />
This was not done in Ellen Whites day, that is why there is no specific counsel. nHim, I would just suggest yo…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8028362009-09-11T05:15:30.365ZStephen Billiterhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/StephenBilliter
nHim, I would just suggest you read this, and then make up your mind.<br />
<br />
<br />
LEV 19:30 YOU SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, AND REVERENCE MY SANCTUARY: I AM THE LORD.<br />
Behavior in the House of God<br />
<br />
To the humble, believing soul, the house of God on earth is the gate of heaven. The song of praise, the prayer, the words spoken by Christ's representatives, are God's appointed agencies to prepare a people for the church above, for that loftier worship into which there can enter nothing that defileth. {5T…
nHim, I would just suggest you read this, and then make up your mind.<br />
<br />
<br />
LEV 19:30 YOU SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, AND REVERENCE MY SANCTUARY: I AM THE LORD.<br />
Behavior in the House of God<br />
<br />
To the humble, believing soul, the house of God on earth is the gate of heaven. The song of praise, the prayer, the words spoken by Christ's representatives, are God's appointed agencies to prepare a people for the church above, for that loftier worship into which there can enter nothing that defileth. {5T 491.1}<br />
From the sacredness which was attached to the earthly sanctuary, Christians may learn how they should regard the place where the Lord meets with His people. There has been a great change, not for the better, but for the worse, in the habits and customs of the people in reference to religious worship. The precious, the sacred, things which connect us with God are fast losing their hold upon our minds and hearts, and are being brought down to the level of common things. The reverence which the people had anciently for the sanctuary where they met with God in sacred service has largely passed away. Nevertheless, God Himself gave the order of His service, exalting it high above everything of a temporal nature. {5T 491.2}<br />
The house is the sanctuary for the family, and the closet or the grove the most retired place for individual worship; but the church is the sanctuary for the congregation. There should be rules in regard to the time, the place, and the manner of worshiping. Nothing that is sacred, nothing that pertains to the worship of God, should be treated with carelessness or indifference. In order that men may do their best work in showing forth the praises of God, their associations must be such as will keep the sacred distinct from the common, in their minds. Those who have broad ideas, noble thoughts and aspirations, are those who have associations that strengthen all thoughts of divine things. Happy are those who have a sanctuary, be it high or low, in the city or among the rugged mountain caves, in the lowly cabin or in the wilderness.<br />
492<br />
If it is the best they can secure for the Master, He will hallow the place with His presence, and it will be holy unto the Lord of hosts. {5T 491.3}<br />
When the worshipers enter the place of meeting, they should do so with decorum, passing quietly to their seats. If there is a stove in the room, it is not proper to crowd about it in an indolent, careless attitude. Common talking, whispering, and laughing should not be permitted in the house of worship, either before or after the service. Ardent, active piety should characterize the worshipers. {5T 492.1}<br />
If some have to wait a few minutes before the meeting begins, let them maintain a true spirit of devotion by silent meditation, keeping the heart uplifted to God in prayer that the service may be of special benefit to their own hearts and lead to the conviction and conversion of other souls. They should remember that heavenly messengers are in the house. We all lose much sweet communion with God by our restlessness, by not encouraging moments of reflection and prayer. The spiritual condition needs to be often reviewed and the mind and heart drawn toward the Sun of Righteousness. If when the people come into the house of worship, they have genuine reverence for the Lord and bear in mind that they are in His presence, there will be a sweet eloquence in silence. The whispering and laughing and talking which might be without sin in a common business place should find no sanction in the house where God is worshiped. The mind should be prepared to hear the word of God, that it may have due weight and suitably impress the heart. {5T 492.2}<br />
When the minister enters, it should be with dignified, solemn mien. He should bow down in silent prayer as soon as he steps into the pulpit, and earnestly ask help of God. What an impression this will make! There will be solemnity and awe upon the people. Their minister is communing with God; he is committing himself to God before he dares to stand before the people. Solemnity rests upon all, and angels<br />
493<br />
of God are brought very near. Every one of the congregation, also, who fears God should with bowed head unite in silent prayer with him that God may grace the meeting with His presence and give power to His truth proclaimed from human lips. When the meeting is opened by prayer, every knee should bow in the presence of the Holy One, and every heart should ascend to God in silent devotion. The prayers of faithful worshipers will be heard, and the ministry of the word will prove effectual. The lifeless attitude of the worshipers in the house of God is one great reason why the ministry is not more productive of good. The melody of song, poured forth from many hearts in clear, distinct utterance, is one of God's instrumentalities in the work of saving souls. All the service should be conducted with solemnity and awe, as if in the visible presence of the Master of assemblies. {5T 492.3}<br />
When the word is spoken, you should remember, brethren, that you are listening to the voice of God through His delegated servant. Listen attentively. Sleep not for one instant, because by this slumber you may lose the very words that you need most--the very words which, if heeded, would save your feet from straying into wrong paths. Satan and his angels are busy creating a paralyzed condition of the senses so that cautions, warnings, and reproofs shall not be heard; or if heard, that they shall not take effect upon the heart and reform the life. Sometimes a little child may so attract the attention of the hearers that the precious seed does not fall into good ground and bring forth fruit. Sometimes young men and women have so little reverence for the house and worship of God that they keep up a continual communication with each other during the sermon. Could these see the angels of God looking upon them and marking their doings, they would be filled with shame, with abhorrence of themselves. God wants attentive hearers. It was while men slept that Satan sowed his tares. {5T 493.1}<br />
When the benediction is pronounced, all should still be<br />
494<br />
quiet, as if fearful of losing the peace of Christ. Let all pass out without jostling or loud talking, feeling that they are in the presence of God, that His eye is resting upon them, and that they must act as in His visible presence. Let there be no stopping in the aisles to visit or gossip, thus blocking them up so that others cannot pass out. The precincts of the church should be invested with a sacred reverence. It should not be made a place to meet old friends and visit and introduce common thoughts and worldly business transactions. These should be left outside the church. God and angels have been dishonored by the careless, noisy laughing and shuffling of feet heard in some places. {5T 493.2}<br />
Parents, elevate the standard of Christianity in the minds of your children; help them to weave Jesus into their experience; teach them to have the highest reverence for the house of God and to understand that when they enter the Lord's house it should be with hearts that are softened and subdued by such thoughts as these: "God is here; this is His house. I must have pure thoughts and the holiest motives. I must have no pride, envy, jealousy, evil surmising, hatred, or deception in my heart, for I am coming into the presence of the holy God. This is the place where God meets with and blesses His people. The high and holy One who inhabiteth eternity looks upon me, searches my heart, and reads the most secret thoughts and acts of my life." {5T 494.1}<br />
Brethren, will you not devote a little thought to this subject and notice how you conduct yourselves in the house of God and what efforts you are making by precept and example to cultivate reverence in your children? You roll vast responsibilities upon the preacher and hold him accountable for the souls of your children; but you do not sense your own responsibility as parents and as instructors and, like Abraham, command your household after you, that they may keep the statutes of the Lord. Your sons and daughters are corrupted by your own example and lax precepts; and, notwithstanding<br />
495<br />
this lack of domestic training, you expect the minister to counteract your daily work and accomplish the wonderful achievement of training their hearts and lives to virtue and piety. After the minister has done all he can do for the church by faithful, affectionate admonition, patient discipline, and fervent prayer to reclaim and save the soul, yet is not successful, the fathers and mothers often blame him because their children are not converted, when it may be because of their own neglect. The burden rests with the parents; and will they take up the work that God has entrusted to them, and with fidelity perform it? Will they move onward and upward, working in a humble, patient, persevering way to reach the exalted standard themselves and to bring their children up with them? No wonder our churches are feeble and do not have that deep, earnest piety in their borders that they should have. Our present habits and customs, which dishonor God and bring the sacred and heavenly down to the level of the common, are against us. We have a sacred, testing, sanctifying truth; and if our habits and practices are not in accordance with the truth, we are sinners against great light, and are proportionately guilty. It will be far more tolerable for the heathen in the day of God's retributive justice than for us. {5T 494.2}<br />
A much greater work might be done than we are now doing in reflecting the light of truth. God expects us to bear much fruit. He expects greater zeal and faithfulness, more affectionate and earnest efforts, by the individual members of the church for their neighbors and for those who are out of Christ. Parents must begin their work on a high plane of action. All who name the name of Christ must put on the whole armor and entreat, warn, and seek to win souls from sin. Lead all you can to listen to the truth in the house of God. We must do much more than we are doing to snatch souls from the burning. {5T 495.1}<br />
It is too true that reverence for the house of God has<br />
496<br />
become almost extinct. Sacred things and places are not discerned; the holy and exalted are not appreciated. Is there not a cause for the want of fervent piety in our families? Is it not because the high standard of religion is left to trail in the dust? God gave rules of order, perfect and exact, to His ancient people. Has His character changed? Is He not the great and mighty God who rules in the heaven of heavens? Would it not be well for us often to read the directions given by God Himself to the Hebrews, that we who have the light of the glorious truth shining upon us may imitate their reverence for the house of God? We have abundant reason to maintain a fervent, devoted spirit in the worship of God. We have reason even to be more thoughtful and reverential in our worship than had the Jews. But an enemy has been at work to destroy our faith in the sacredness of Christian worship. {5T 495.2}<br />
The place dedicated to God should not be a room where worldly business is transacted. If the children assemble to worship God in a room that is used during the week for a school or a storeroom, they will be more than human if, mingled with their devotional thoughts, they do not also have thoughts of their studies or of things that have happened during the week. The education and training of the youth should be of a character that would exalt sacred things and encourage pure devotion for God in His house. Many who profess to be children of the heavenly King have no true appreciation of the sacredness of eternal things. Nearly all need to be taught how to conduct themselves in the house of God. Parents should not only teach, but command, their children to enter the sanctuary with sobriety and reverence. {5T 496.1}<br />
The moral taste of the worshipers in God's holy sanctuary must be elevated, refined, sanctified. This matter has been sadly neglected. Its importance has been overlooked, and as the result, disorder and irreverence have become prevalent,<br />
497<br />
and God has been dishonored. When the leaders in the church, ministers and people, father and mothers, have not had elevated views of this matter, what could be expected of the inexperienced children? They are too often found in groups, away from the parents, who should have charge of them. Notwithstanding they are in the presence of God, and His eye is looking upon them, they are light and trifling, they whisper and laugh, are careless, irreverent, and inattentive. They are seldom instructed that the minister is God's ambassador, that the message he brings is one of God's appointed agencies in the salvation of souls, and that to all who have the privilege brought within their reach it will be a savor of life unto life or of death unto death. {5T 496.2}<br />
The delicate and susceptible minds of the youth obtain their estimate of the labors of God's servants by the way their parents treat the matter. Many heads of families make the service a subject of criticism at home, approving a few things and condemning others. Thus the message of God to men is criticized and questioned, and made a subject of levity. What impressions are thus made upon the young by these careless, irreverent remarks the books of heaven alone will reveal. The children see and understand these things very much quicker than parents are apt to think. Their moral senses receive a wrong bias that time will never fully change. The parents mourn over the hardness of heart in their children and the difficulty in arousing their moral sensibility to answer to the claims of God. But the books of heavenly record trace with unerring pen the true cause. The parents were unconverted. They were not in harmony with heaven or with heaven's work. Their low, common ideas of the sacredness of the ministry and of the sanctuary of God were woven into the education of their children. It is a question whether anyone who has for years been under this blighting influence of home instruction will ever have a sensitive reverence and<br />
498<br />
high regard for God's ministry and the agencies He has appointed for the salvation of souls. These things should be spoken of with reverence, with propriety of language, and with fine susceptibility, that you may reveal to all you associate with that you regard the message from God's servants as a message to you from God Himself. {5T 497.1}<br />
Parents, be careful what example and what ideas you give your children. Their minds are plastic, and impressions are easily made. In regard to the service of the sanctuary, if the speaker has a blemish, be afraid to mention it. Talk only of the good work he is doing, of the good ideas he presented, which you should heed as coming through God's agent. It may be readily seen why children are so little impressed with the ministry of the word and why they have so little reverence for the house of God. Their education has been defective in this respect. Their parents need daily communion with God. Their own ideas need to be refined and ennobled; their lips need to be touched with a live coal from off the altar; then their habits, their practices at home, will make a good impression on the minds and characters of their children. The standard of religion will be greatly elevated. Such parents will do a great work for God. They will have less earthliness, less sensuality, and more refinement and fidelity at home. Life will be invested with a solemnity of which they have scarcely conceived. Nothing will be made common that pertains to the service and worship of God. {5T 498.1}<br />
I am often pained as I enter the house where God is worshiped, to see the untidy dress of both men and women. If the heart and character were indicated by the outward apparel, then certainly nothing could be heavenly about them. They have no true idea of the order, the neatness, and the refined deportment that God requires of all who come into His presence to worship Him. What impressions do these things give to unbelievers and to the youth, who are keen to discern and to draw their conclusions? {5T 498.2}<br />
In the minds of many there are no more sacred thoughts<br />
499<br />
connected with the house of God than with the most common place. Some will enter the place of worship with their hats on, in soiled, dirty clothes. Such do not realize that they are to meet with God and holy angels. There should be a radical change in this matter all through our churches. Ministers themselves need to elevate their ideas, to have finer susceptibilities in regard to it. It is a feature of the work that has been sadly neglected. Because of the irreverence in attitude, dress, and deportment, and lack of a worshipful frame of mind, God has often turned His face away from those assembled for His worship. {5T 498.3}<br />
All should be taught to be neat, clean, and orderly in their dress, but not to indulge in that external adorning which is wholly inappropriate for the sanctuary. There should be no display of the apparel; for this encourages irreverence. The attention of the people is often called to this or that fine article of dress, and thus thoughts are intruded that should have no place in the hearts of the worshipers. God is to be the subject of thought, the object of worship; and anything that attracts the mind from the solemn, sacred service is an offense to Him. The parading of bows and ribbons, ruffles and feathers, and gold and silver ornaments is a species of idolatry and is wholly inappropriate for the sacred service of God, where the eye of every worshiper should be single to His glory. All matters of dress should be strictly guarded, following closely the Bible rule. Fashion has been the goddess who has ruled the outside world, and she often insinuates herself into the church. The church should make the word of God her standard, and parents should think intelligently upon this subject. When they see their children inclined to follow worldly fashions, they should, like Abraham, resolutely command their households after them. Instead of uniting them with the world, connect them with God. Let none dishonor God's sanctuary by their showy apparel. God and angels are there. The Holy One of Israel has spoken through His apostle: "Whose adorning let it not be that outward<br />
500<br />
adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." {5T 499.1}<br />
When a church has been raised up and left uninstructed on these points, the minister has neglected his duty and will have to give an account to God for the impressions he allowed to prevail. Unless correct ideas of true worship and true reverence are impressed upon the people, there will be a growing tendency to place the sacred and eternal on a level with common things, and those professing the truth will be an offense to God and a disgrace to religion. They can never, with their uncultivated ideas, appreciate a pure and holy heaven, and be prepared to join with the worshipers in the heavenly courts above, where all is purity and perfection, where every being has perfect reverence for God and His holiness. {5T 500.1}<br />
Paul describes the work of God's ambassadors as that by which every man shall be presented perfect in Christ Jesus. Those who embrace the truth of heavenly origin should be refined, ennobled, sanctified through it. It will require much painstaking effort to reach God's standard of true manhood. The irregular stones hewed from the quarry must be chiseled, their rough sides must be polished. This is an age famous for surface work, for easy methods, for boasted holiness aside from the standard of character that God has erected. All short routes, all cutoff tracks, all teaching which fails to exalt the law of God as the standard of religious character, is spurious. Perfection of character is a lifelong work, unattainable by those who are not willing to strive for it in God's appointed way, by slow and toilsome steps. We cannot afford to make any mistake in this matter, but we want day by day to be growing up into Christ, our living Head. {5T 500.2} Dance where? In church? How?…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8028342009-09-11T05:12:05.106ZStephen Billiterhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/StephenBilliter
Dance where? In church? How? Like in the disco? How do you know that God approves of that, where does He say so?<br />
<br />
Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.<br />
<br />
I would say this verse refers to the most impressive Jewish wedding ceremony, All dancing that is referred to in the Bible is never in the temple.To take this verse and use it to justify all…
Dance where? In church? How? Like in the disco? How do you know that God approves of that, where does He say so?<br />
<br />
Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.<br />
<br />
I would say this verse refers to the most impressive Jewish wedding ceremony, All dancing that is referred to in the Bible is never in the temple.To take this verse and use it to justify all dancing, would be to take it out of context.Many times the Bible will refer to things that were done, but that does not mean it has God's stamp of approval. I know of no dancing that is done today that is not of a sexual, sensuous nature, leading the mind and affections away from God.<br />
<br />
David's Dancing Not a Precedent.--David's dancing in reverent joy before God has been cited by pleasure lovers in justification of the fashionable modern dance, but there is no ground for such an argument. In our day dancing is associated with folly and midnight reveling. Health and morals are sacrificed to pleasure. By the frequenters of the ballroom God is not an object of thought and reverence; prayer or the song of praise would be felt to be out of place in their assemblies. This test should be decisive. Amusements that have a tendency to weaken the love for sacred things and lessen our joy in the service of God are not to be sought by Christians. The music and dancing in joyful praise to God at the removal of the ark had not the faintest resemblance to the dissipation of modern dancing. The one tended to the remembrance of God and exalted His holy name. The other is a device of Satan to cause men to forget God and to dishonor Him. {AH 517.1}<br />
<br />
It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. {2SM 36.2} we will not save the trees, e…tag:www.adventistonline.com,2009-09-11:1451550:Comment:8028162009-09-11T04:50:48.595ZStephen Billiterhttp://www.adventistonline.com/profile/StephenBilliter
we will not save the trees, entirely God will destroy those who destroy the earth.<br />
<br />
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and your wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that you should give reward to your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear your name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
we will not save the trees, entirely God will destroy those who destroy the earth.<br />
<br />
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and your wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that you should give reward to your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear your name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.