--- Log opened Mon Jul 09 00:00:19 2012
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07:11 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (2 files in 2 dirs): document why omitting a TDep
--- Log opened Mon Jul 09 09:00:33 2012
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09:00 Topic for #fink: See http://www.finkproject.org/ for common questions || Problems? Use http://paste.lisp.org/new/fink instead of flooding the channel || Latest Installers: 0.9.0 (10.5); none for 10.6 or 10.7 yet (use source); 10.8 experimental via https://github.com/fink/fink || Latest Package Manager: fink-0.33.3 (Higgsino)
09:00 Topic set by akh [] [Thu Jul 5 13:07:42 2012]
09:00 # Users #fink
09:00 astrange Craigwd_2000 fangism Jarvis mcp pbn
09:00 azstefano crhalpin fangism1 JensRex mringwal pinson
09:00 brendan cryptmod99 gecko2 jpowermacg5 mtl RangerRick
09:00 CIA-22 djinni getphuture jwhowarth Murr Reidy
09:00 cirdan dmacks_away hive-mind kinlo Nar_ saurik
09:00 conundrum echelog-1 htodd loadbang Necromonger Sjors
09:00 Irssi: #fink: Total of 36 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 36 normal]
09:00 Home page for #fink: http://www.finkproject.org/
09:00 Channel #fink created Sun Nov 26 01:43:05 2006
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09:47 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/inline-files-pm.info: new package
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09:50 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/ (inline-pm.info inline-pm.patch): new version Inline, with lots of i386 fixes (eew)
09:53 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/ (capture-tiny-pm.info capture-tiny-pm.patch): new Capture::Tiny
10:06 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/ (class-accessor-grouped-pm.info class-autouse-pm.info): new version Class::Accessor::Grouped Class::Autouse
10:11 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (6 files in 2 dirs): new version Class::C3 Class::Inspector Class::Mix
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11:25 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (8 files in 2 dirs): new version DB* modules
11:28 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/dbd-pg-unified-pm.info: new version DBD::Pg
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12:20 CIA-22> goatbar * dists/10.7/stable/main/finkinfo/sci/pandas-py.info: pandas version 0.8.0
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13:19 Fingolfin> hi
13:19 * Fingolfin was looking into packaging automake 1.12.1, and discovered some OS X specific regressions in it
13:20 Fingolfin> but also some odd test failures
13:20 Fingolfin> some of them related to our /sw/sbin/install-info
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13:20 Fingolfin> and I was wondering if anybody got any quick insights on that... specifically, to my great surprise, it contains this:
13:20 Fingolfin> $infodir='/usr/share/info';
13:20 Fingolfin> ...
13:20 Fingolfin> $backup='/var/backups/infodir.bak';
13:20 Fingolfin> $default='/usr/share/base-files/info.dir';
13:21 Fingolfin> i.e. the Fink prefix is not being used. This is the cause of several failures in the automake testsuite
13:21 Fingolfin> so I was wondering:
13:22 Fingolfin> a) does everybody else have that at the start of /sw/sbin/install-info, or is something broken on my system?
13:22 Fingolfin> b) if everybod has it, then why? isn't this a serious bug?
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13:42 CIA-22> fangism * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/10.4-EOL/sci/qrupdate.info: fixes -atlas linking
13:44 fangism> Fingolfin: see the automake1.11 in my experimental, I've worked around some test failures before for 1.11 in PatchScript
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13:45 Fingolfin> thanks, although I think I know how to workaround the test failures in automake
13:45 Fingolfin> what I am surprised about here is how broken our install-info is ;)
13:45 fangism> perhaps this thread might be of use: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-automake/2012-04/threads.html#00067
13:46 fangism> oh, getting different test failures?
13:47 Fingolfin> ? I am not talking about automake, I am talking about /sw/sbin/install-info from our dpkg package... :) it hardcodes paths outside the Fink prefix
13:48 fangism> ah, that sounds suspicious
13:49 fangism> guess it depends on whether or not --infodir is passed to it
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13:51 Fingolfin> well, Fink always passed --infodir=%p/share/info -- I really wonder why that was coded, instead of fixing /sw/sbin/install-info to contain the correct default infodir value...
13:52 Fingolfin> BTW, your autoake.info in exp adds "unset AM_UPDATE_INFO_DIR", which is already there in 1.11.5 and 1.12.1; also, I think it wouldn't actually work since it misspells tests/defs.in as test/defs.in ;)
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14:04 CIA-22> thesin * dists/10.7/stable/main/finkinfo/base/debianutils.info:
14:04 CIA-22> New Upstream release
14:04 CIA-22> * Fix list of utilities in long description. closes: #666077.
14:04 CIA-22> * run-parts(8): clarify that run-parts execution order is not
14:04 CIA-22> locale-dependent. closes: #654340.
14:04 CIA-22> * tempfile(1): note that tempfile cannot create directories.
14:04 CIA-22> closes: #457974.
14:05 Fingolfin> hrm, moreover, it would be kind of nice if we installed texinfo's "proper" install-info somewhere, say under the name ginstall-info, like Debian does
14:06 TheSin> that is what me and Sorjs want to do, I think he was working on spliting it out
14:06 TheSin> err Sjors
14:08 TheSin> if we did that we could set it to essential (depending on deps) and add an infofile trigger and remove all that form fink
14:09 Fingolfin> well, but that's a much bigger project with far wider ramifications...
14:09 Fingolfin> this here is a trivial change to the existing dpkg package -- and I am surprised that we didn't make that change 10 years ago...
14:09 Fingolfin> which makes me suspicious -- what am I missing here??? :)
14:09 TheSin> have you looked at my new dpkg max?
14:10 Fingolfin> no
14:10 TheSin> check my exp 1.16.4.3 is there and ready
14:10 TheSin> but binutils/objtools needs to be fixed/resolved and install-info needs to be resolved before it can see the light of day
14:11 TheSin> that and ppl need ot test it since we have NO way to properly testing anything anymore without unstable
14:11 Fingolfin> sorry, I have no interest to test experimental code right now on my work system ...
14:11 TheSin> not saying I disagree with removing unstable just pointing out that things sit in exp and you HOPE ppl will test it, but tha'ts it
14:12 TheSin> I'm using it on all my produciton setups for over a week now
14:12 Fingolfin> of course if your dpkg is going to be made part of Fink tomorrow, then that'll solve all problems, but if that\s not the case, I'd rather get my single-file trivial change into an interim rev of the existing ancient dpkg...
14:12 Fingolfin> s/all problems/my particular problem here/
14:12 TheSin> well I have been asking and begging for a binutils/objtools solution
14:12 TheSin> and I think Sjors is working on install-tools otherwise as fasr as I know it's ready to go
14:13 Fingolfin> TheSin: sorry, I can't quite follow you here... let's take it slow, step by step: "not saying I disagree with removing unstable" -> I don't understand this sentence, for starters
14:13 Fingolfin> we did remove unstable a long time ago already, didn't we? so what is this about?
14:13 TheSin> once in makes it into fink then I'll work on removing our trigger hax we currently have in dpkg and just add a system wide trigger for it in dpkg it's self
14:13 TheSin> which will cut the patch down hugely and make it much more portable
14:14 TheSin> yes
14:14 Fingolfin> TheSin: you seem to assume I know what you are talking about. I don't. For what it's worth, you could be talking chinese to me right now ;)
14:14 TheSin> I'm complaining that there is no way to properly test things like a new dpkg now
14:15 Fingolfin> well, that's why it would be good to move the dists/ tree to git
14:15 TheSin> if I have time today I'll make a long post to core explain all of it and each part of what is holding it up, I was super sick this weekend so i dind't get much done and I'm still not feeling 100%, but I'll try and get something coherent into -core tonight
14:15 Fingolfin> because then you could simply make a "new-dpkg" branch, and people could quickly switch to that to test it
14:15 TheSin> I have a thesin- branch of bootstrap already updated for 10.7, 10.6 is 100% untested though
14:19 TheSin> !seen akh
14:19 pinson> i haven't seen 'akh', TheSin
14:19 TheSin> !lart pinson
14:19 * pinson pours hot grits down the front of thesin's pants
14:19 TheSin> hehe
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16:03 TheSin> oh sure it leaves as I finish up the new texinfo -> install-info split
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16:37 TheSin> how pretty is this? "install -m 0644 %b/../%N-%v/fink/%n.triggers %d/DEBIAN/triggers" :D odd that fink makes %b in a split installscript somethign that doesn't exist :\
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16:38 TheSin> dmacks_away, I can only assume that is a bug? %b in a splitoffs installscript becomes what the %b would be is the child was the parent so it doesn't exist
16:41 TheSin> Sjors, a new texinfo pkg with proper splits and triggers will be in my exp shortly
16:41 TheSin> I'll be adding it to my bootstrap too if you'd like to test it, it requires a new dpkg (no revision change since it's unreleased, so get the new info files and rebuild)
16:56 TheSin> okay I giveup, how the F*$@ do you access %b from a child?
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16:59 fangism> i've never tried to access %b from a split-off, i'm usually done using %b by the end of %N's install-script
17:00 TheSin> well since fink doesn't support triggers yet I have to add triggers by hand to %d/DEBIAN
17:00 fangism> a split-off is just moving a subset of files from %d,%i
17:00 TheSin> so to do that I have to make a VERY ugly workaround by installing the file in %D/DEBIAN then making a child InstallScript to mv it form the %D to %d
17:01 TheSin> fangism, I know that, but I'm working in DEBIAN not %p
17:01 fangism> ah
17:02 TheSin> trying to get triggers into fink and obsolete InfoDoc:
17:02 fangism> ahhhh
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17:04 TheSin> justin@tracer [~/temp/texinfo]$ cat /sw/var/lib/dpkg/info/install-info.triggers interest /sw/share/info
17:04 TheSin> interest /sw/info
17:04 TheSin> so now if anything from a deb installs to those dirs the postinstal script from install-info gets called
17:04 TheSin> aka no need for InfoDocs
17:17 TheSin> W00T!! Processing triggers for dpkg-base-files ...
17:20 fangism> nice work
17:21 TheSin> just need to figure out a few more pieces, I'll nuke dpkg-base-files and move the trigger to fink.info in my bootstrap and it's done
17:21 TheSin> then I'll working addinga Triggers: derective for .info files
17:34 TheSin> actually what dpkg-base-files does it not really good
17:34 TheSin> fink should be doing this before the dpkg-deb call
17:50 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/ (4 files): new version Data::Alias Data::Section::Simple Data::Visitor
17:58 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (2 files in 2 dirs): new versin Data::Dump
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18:34 CIA-22> fangism * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/10.4-EOL/sci/ (arpack.info arpack-ng.info): sync. w/ 10.!4/stable, validated on powerpc-darwin8
18:38 TheSin> akh in my bootstrap I'm removing dpkg-base-files, removing the fink-triggers in lue of dpkg triggers from the dpkg patch and I added a new texinfo with install-info split that has a proper trigger which is obsoleting InfoFiles: as well as adding a new Triggers: field to info files
18:38 TheSin> bbiab
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18:41 CIA-22> danielj7 * dists/ (2 files in 2 dirs): New upstream autoconf-archive 2012.04.07.
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19:22 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Would a Rose::* by any old version smell as sweet?
19:22 dmacks_away> akh: Do you have a 10.5 handy? Could you see if there is a Run.pm anywhere in /System/Library/Perl or in /Library/Perl ?
19:23 dmacks_away> Er, s/Run.pm/Run3.pm/
19:23 akh> Just Run.pm
19:23 akh> No Run3.pm
19:24 akh> Hell, I don't show Run3.pm on 10.7. :-)
19:25 dmacks_away> One more reason I hate system-perl and Provides.
19:25 akh> Yup
19:26 CIA-22> Daniel Macks master * r8ba31dc / perlmod/Fink/VirtPackage.pm : system-perl does *not* supply IPC::Run3 on 10.5 or even still as of 10.7 - http://git.io/73rWwA
19:27 dmacks_away> Luckily there are no reverse-depends on that varianted one (we have ipc-run-pm unvarianted if anyone wants it)
19:29 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Fink::VirtPackage's system-perl:Provides:ipc-run3-pmXXX is bogus
19:34 CIA-22> fangism * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/ (crypto/pidgin.info 10.4-EOL/crypto/pidgin.info): upstream update pidgin 2.10.5
19:35 akh> my power supply magically works again. :-)
19:35 CIA-22> fangism * dists/10.4/stable/main/finkinfo/10.4-EOL/sci/ (fftw.info fftw3.info):
19:35 CIA-22> sync. w/ 10.!4/stable, validated on powerpc-darwin8
19:35 CIA-22> modified to only require gcc4x-compiler (would be suitable for non-EOL, bmaret)
19:35 akh> I underestimated its intelligence, I guess--it actually seems to shut down when not delivering electrons to the computer.
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20:05 CIA-22> fangism * dists/10.7/stable/main/finkinfo/crypto/pidgin.info: upstream update 2.10.5, sync. w/ 10.!7, validated on x86_64-darwin11
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20:37 dmacks_away> I think "What is a power supply when it's not supplying power?" is one of those one-hand-clapping thingies.
20:39 fangism> a brick
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20:41 * dmacks_away throws a brick at cmake
20:41 * fangism makes it rain bricks over cmake
20:41 * dmacks_away hides an anvil in cmake's umbrella
20:42 * fangism installs a lightning-rod extension in cmake's umbrella
20:44 * dmacks_away drives grounding electrode through cmake's foot
20:45 * fangism designates cmake as Wile E. Coyote's stunt-double
20:45 dmacks_away> oooooo good one!
20:46 TheSin> dmacks_away, you around?
20:46 TheSin> nm just saw youa re ;)
20:46 dmacks_away> TheSin: gimme a moment or two, have two dozen packages half-built, better write down what I'm doing:)
20:46 TheSin> I'm reading the postinst in dpkg-base-files, is the only point of it to make all .la files have dependency_libs=''
20:46 TheSin> no matter what?
20:47 TheSin> np dmacks_away it's pretty simpel I think but I don't mind waiting, it's just that changing the .la fiels at install is breaking md5sums and causing issues so I'm working on adding it to fink before the deb and md5sums is made
20:48 dmacks_away> That is its main action, and also it makes sure %p/bin/init.sh is loaded before the "real" PostInst (in the .deb) runs.
20:49 TheSin> right but that doesn't change files after md5sums is made
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20:49 dmacks_away> Right.
20:49 TheSin> using a trigger in the fink.info file will do that easy, but I'm only worried about the .la file hacking ATM
20:50 TheSin> oh wait hehehe a trigger won't fix that, sorry too many meds
20:50 TheSin> I mean your patch will deal with that easy
20:50 dmacks_away> heh yeah, a trigger is just a different mechanism to break the md5 :)
20:50 fangism> cmake makes me trigger-happy
20:50 TheSin> hahaha well can be, but it doesn't on debian at all
20:51 TheSin> changing a file after the deb is made that isn't a config file makes me twitchy and defeats the purpose of everythign I've been working on
20:51 * dmacks_away gives cmake a gunpowder enema and then kicks it in the ass.
20:51 TheSin> I rebuild everythign and all -dev pkgs pretty much are broken according to debsums, makes me nutty
20:52 TheSin> Writing control file...
20:52 TheSin> Reading libapr.la.
20:52 TheSin> Clearing dependency_lib from libapr.la.
20:52 TheSin> Writing new libapr.la.
20:52 TheSin> Writing md5sums file...
20:52 TheSin> that's what I have so far
20:53 dmacks_away> Yup, It would certainly be easy to do the .la cleaning prior to rolling up the .deb, but we'd need a .info control of that rather than a default fink action.
20:55 TheSin> why is that? currently it's a default action
20:56 dmacks_away> No, it's the default action in dpkg-i, so the .deb still has the .la data.
20:56 TheSin> anyhow when and if you have time if you could look at what I did in my fork, I just commited it, it's working but seems insanely redundant but I couldn't seem to get a file to open read/write + trunkate that worked how I wanted
20:57 dmacks_away> The alternative of doing it prior to dpkg-b would need .info controls.
20:57 TheSin> wow that confuses me, what good is that? incase we wanted to change it?
20:57 dmacks_away> .deb must be deterministic, one of the bedrock policies of fink.
20:57 TheSin> cause the only way to get it is dpkg -x and I'm sure like 98% of users dont' know how to do that
20:58 TheSin> I guess I just don't see the difference, but so be it I guess, I need to add a triggers: field anyhow so I coudl add a cleanla boolean
20:58 TheSin> defaults to true and can be set to false, even though it never will be ;)
20:59 dmacks_away> If anyone ever lets even one .la get in with even one piece of data, the whole reverse-depends tree from that point becomes hopelessly fucked, so there's no way we can "just start doing it while we're building the .deb"
20:59 dmacks_away> I will never support a change of default .deb contents behavior.
21:01 dmacks_away> This new action requires a rev-up, because otherwise why bother doing it if users are still going to have old .deb around? Only *forcing* rebuild causes the data to go away. We can never be sure that users will suddenly have all new .la. Therefore, as long as we are in the same distro/ we can never stop doing the postinst .la cleanups even if we do have a newer approach also available.
21:01 TheSin> well then in that case I'm done with debian updates ther eis zero point now
21:01 dmacks_away> It's about 5 years too late to alter the decisions about how .la cleanup is handled.
21:02 TheSin> yup that's the fink way, back our selfs in a corner and say oh well too late can't be fixed now lets keep 10 year old software in stead
21:02 TheSin> there is always a way
21:02 TheSin> a happy medium, but it's always about butting heads here to make any progress at all
21:03 TheSin> aka make the change in fink and keep the current one at the same time
21:03 TheSin> since it's a perl-pi it'll never match and never change newer build pkgs
21:03 dmacks_away> There are certainly alternative implementations, like triggers, but killing off the triggers (or whatever other postinst mechanism) technically doesn't work. We're not MacPorts, we're not in the business of silently having crap break and "oh well, just rebuild all your stuff"
21:03 TheSin> older built will stay the same and nothing changes at all
21:03 TheSin> but newer debs will at least validate
21:04 TheSin> weird I never said to break anything
21:04 dmacks_away> I can certainly support that, with .info control default false. That way we can actually push towards validation over time.
21:04 TheSin> it's removed right now in my fork but only for testing notice it's commented out not deleted
21:05 dmacks_away> A single flag that omits all the UpdatePOD InfoDocs and other crap that's now handlable by triggers and also does .la cleanup, etc. Like debian's policy-version controls.
21:06 dmacks_away> (or lintian, or whatever the heck they call it when they change policy and upgrade the file format)
21:07 dmacks_away> CreateDebForDpkgThatIsntOlderThanDirt:true
21:09 TheSin> since i'm sick and just getting more frustrated as this goes I'll just agree, but since i"m not going to do that it will never happen, fink LOVEs to over complicate things, why not do what I said and keep both default on till a new branch then just drop the old at that point
21:09 TheSin> makes no sense to clutter up our info files MORE and make MORE manual crap that will get missed and need a new fink dep maybe even a new Info 2354498234: <<
21:10 dmacks_away> akh: how much fun is it to help users when .deb contents are not deterministic for a given %v-%r ?
21:10 TheSin> when it won't hurt a thing to just enable it and keep the old one
21:10 TheSin> and makes it easier for maintainers cause it's silent and breaks nothing
21:10 TheSin> but it isn't different, once installed which is the only time a user will use it
21:11 TheSin> how much HELP will it be to have akh say install debsums and run debsums -c and when it returns a modified or changed file we know without further diag
21:12 dmacks_away> Users modifying fink files has not been a common problem we see.
21:13 dmacks_away> It actually *un*clutters .info because it would be a single flag *instead of* a bunch of others.
21:14 dmacks_away> s/InfoDocs: foo.info bar.info; UpdatePOD:true; PostInst:rarian-crap; PostInst gconf2-crap; etc/UseNewDpkgSemantics:true/
21:14 TheSin> well I'm not talking about the updatePOD and InfoFiles: fields ATM again triggers will just make sure on those if they are there or not, someday fink may deprecate those but it won't hurt for them to exist with the trigger
21:15 dmacks_away> Ahhhh I see, I thought we'd be more eager to scrap obsolete things from .info, your focus is in the md5 sanity control.
21:16 TheSin> anyhow, I know I won't win, but for my own learning curve if you could look at my code to help me improve myself I'd appreciate it
21:16 dmacks_away> Certainly. Not sure exactly how soon I can do that, but will put it in my queueueue
21:16 TheSin> and yes for myself I jsut want md5sums to work for my test env ;)
21:16 TheSin> oh for sure you are a super busy guy and I understand that
21:17 dmacks_away> Does the checksum test use the actual .deb archive or the md5sums file saved in var/wherever (pulled from the .deb during dpkg-i)?
21:17 TheSin> just when you get a chance I'd appreciate it, I just really enjoy coding I just wish I coudl have started early and maybe went to school for it so I'd be better at all or get a job at it, but it's a little late for me now
21:18 TheSin> it uses the md5sums file in the info db
21:18 dmacks_away> That opens up a nice and evil solution to the problem...
21:18 TheSin> which is somewhat dumb cause if I wrote a rootkit I'd amke it just updat ethe md5sums file based on the list file
21:19 dmacks_away> yeah
21:19 TheSin> yeah but I just can't do that
21:19 TheSin> I couldn't shower enough to make that feel right ;)
21:19 dmacks_away> hehe yeah:)
21:21 TheSin> specially when I hav eit all working already, well I guess working in my eyes ;)
21:21 TheSin> I was messing with triggers today for fun, and I was trying to get it to do the la fiels there
21:22 TheSin> but ther eis no way to get the name of the pkg that calls the trigger so ther eis no way to get a file list, we'd have to process all .las at that point and it wouldn't fix the md5sums issues
21:22 TheSin> but it was neat to see triggers working, I made a new texinfo pkg today too that uses it and has a proper install-info pkg
21:23 TheSin> it's in my fork if you are interested
21:23 dmacks_away> Upstream install-info has certainly progressed beyond our old crapp thing too
21:23 TheSin> the beauty of adding triggers though is we can do it now, it'll go in the deb and just not be used for anything till dpkg upgrades but it won't hurt
21:24 TheSin> yeah totally, I got it all setup and tested
21:24 = echelog-1 [~echelog-1@95.166.104.217] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
21:29 * akh gets paid the same either way ;-)
21:29 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (2 files in 2 dirs): new module Math::Round
21:30 dmacks_away> akh: causing you to drink less is a form of pay increase?
21:30 akh> Something like that.
21:30 CIA-22> thesin * experimental/thesin/finkinfo/ (texinfo.info texinfo.patch dpkg.patch dpkg.info): Change dpkg patch into smaller patches makes devel easier and also easier for future version ports and knowing why a patch is there. Add new texinfo pkg with splits for install-info and triggers
21:31 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (6 files in 2 dirs): new version Date::Manip DateTime DateTime::TimeZone
21:31 dmacks_away> Thinking of time and drinking; time for a drink...bbl
21:34 + echelog-1 [~echelog-1@95.166.104.217] joined #fink
21:51 CIA-22> dmacks * dists/ (8 files in 2 dirs): new version DateTime::Format::*
22:47 Craigwd_2000> !lart Apple's Installer
22:47 * pinson duct-tapes Apple's Installer to the floor and drools on him
22:48 = TheSin [~TheSin@gateway.bluefalls.ca] quit (Quit: Client exiting)
23:26 = echelog-1 [~echelog-1@95.166.104.217] quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
23:27 + echelog-1 [~echelog-1@95.166.104.217] joined #fink
23:51 azstefano> Who fixed Fink? This latest rev doesn't immediately fail during update. My un-purgeable, unwanted numbered Octave children aren't yet causing dependency loops. Atlas thingies compile. I was thinking I would have to delete /sw and start from scratch. But maybe not....
23:54 azstefano> :-)
--- Log closed Tue Jul 10 00:00:34 2012