August 19, 2019

RSSB volunteers punch someone in the face at Haynes Park

Hypocrisy is rampant in every religion. When love is preached from the pulpit, hate often is in the minds of believers. When humility is set forth as a virtue, egotism frequently is on actual display.

Here's an example from Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), an Indian religious organization led by a guru that I belonged to for 35 years before I saw the light and deconverted.

What follows is the tale of a frequent commenter on this blog, Osho Robbins. He's a bit of an iconoclast, since he enjoys going to RSSB meetings, including those where the current RSSB guru (Gurinder Singh Dhillon) is speaking, where sometimes Robbins engages the guru in a spirited question and answer session.

But Robbins doesn't subscribe to the traditional RSSB teachings. At any rate, recently he went to the RSSB center in England, Haynes Park, where he was treated in a decidedly un-loving fashion by a bunch of RSSB volunteers, or sevadars.

In fact, he got punched in the face by one of them, as you can read below.

What I find interesting about Robbins' Haynes Park adventure is what it says about Radha Soami Satsang Beas. Where did these volunteers/sevadars get the idea that it was OK to act like jerks? From higher-up in the organization, of course.

The RSSB guru has been accused of making death threats, either directly or through RSSB associates, not once, but twice (see here and here). So I guess punching someone in the face is mild, by comparison. Still, this episode makes me glad I'm no longer involved with RSSB.

Robbins alludes to the fact that devotees of the RSSB guru are absurdly attached to their seva, volunteer work.

Because the guru is considered to be God in human form by the RSSB teachings, service to the guru is viewed as service to God. So members of RSSB take great pride in being allowed to perform volunteer work, often becoming inordinately rigid and dogmatic about their assigned task.

Here's three recent comments from Osho Robbins. I've separated them by dashes. "Baba Ji" refers to the RSSB guru. "Satsang" is a spiritual talk.

BIG news coming up about Haynes Park satsang. I attended Friday and Saturday. In two days I managed to hear exactly zero minutes of Baba Ji's words.

On the Friday it was because certain sevadars took my phone and refused to return it. I specifically said "I wish to leave Haynes Park immediately and would like my property returned to me immediately."

They said I could have it after the satsang. I explained that I am not staying, but am leaving immediately. Still they refused. So I said I would calk the police as this was theft of my phone.

I did in fact call the police exactly as promised. The police explained to them that they have no right to hold onto my phone without my permission.

Anyway, finally got my phone back at 3pm and was told that I am "banned" from Haynes Park and all satsangs. As far as I know, nobody is banned from attending public satsangs. But I guess there is always going to be a first.

Oh I forgot to mention the most important part. I did take the phone into the tent despite the notices. Guilty as charged.

I did also record about 5 minutes of the English speaker who did the satsang before the Q&A. Because he seemed to say some interesting things. Once again, guilty as charged.

Two major crimes that gave the sevadars permission, in their mind, to keep hold of my phone despite my request to have my phone back as I wish to leave Haynes.

One sevadar was forced to tell a lie in order to keep his seva. The sevadars don't care about what is "legal". They have their own rules that are above the law. Why? Because they said so.

-------------------------

The sevadar who originally “clocked me” was asked what happened.

Now the thing was, I’d spoken to him while I was waiting for my phone and he was an okay guy. In fact he started feeling bad for taking the phone and wished he hadn’t. He was very fearful of losing his seva.

So when asked to say what had happened, I was surprised when he said “I don’t want to say it.... “ I naturally asked “ what exactly don’t you want to say, just say it.”

He then said that I had threatened to “kick him in the nuts”.

Not a phrase I would ever use. Naturally I denied it. The sevadar then said “I would rather believe my sevadar than you”.

Of course it was just too obvious what was going on. I had seen the sevadar have a meeting with this higher up sevadar just a few minutes earlier. So he had obviously told him to tell this lie when asked if he wishes to keep his seva.

So that sevadar said it hesitatingly because he was clearly having a conflict about if he should lie in order to save his seva.

If it was me, I would have simply spoken the truth and handed the sevadar my badge and walked away with a clear conscience. To me, that would be the only course of action possible. But that’s because I would not be desperate to keep my seva.

Someone who is desperate to keep his seva can be bribed. Of course if I was desperate, I too could be bribed.

So the sevadar lied to save his seva, and that was predictable and there was a brief moment when he could break out, that would change his life. Stand for truth instead of lying.

It’s not “wrong” as such. He only did what he was programmed to do. Neither is the higher up sevadar “wrong” as he too was only doing what he was programmed to do.

Liars lie. Thieves steal. It’s the way their life has programmed them. So even in the midst of all this happening against me I am saying it was all inevitable and unavoidable. Each person is acting according to the way they are programmed including me.

So all this was all happening perfectly, despite the fact that at that moment it was not in my favour.

Or was it? It was only against me if I am desperate to step this “calamity” from happening

But it’s seriously not a calamity. I was actually quite happy watching all this unfold. It was entertaining watching how it all happens. Only if I have no agenda. In this case I have no agenda, because I don’t care in the slightest about being “banned” as such.

I can’t be hurt by banning me. The sevadar picked on the wrong guy. I just find the whole thing entertaining. Gives me something to write about.

Of course I am not going to “stay banned”. I am going to test this to see what happens next. I am going to see how far this corruption at the top goes.

Obviously the higher up sevadar has a hold on the lower down sevadar that enables him to force him to lie. So the lower sevadar chose that path because he was desperate to save his seva.

There is no free will here. Nobody can break free unless he stops caring to save his seva. The higher up sevadar is just as bound because he wants me to be banned at any cost. Each is doing whatever they are doing to get the outcome they want.

Drop the outcome and it becomes a game. That’s why I found the whole thing entertaining and laughable. Including “me”. I am also part of the entertainment. If I stop, the entertainment stops.

That too is an option. I can stay banned. I am not desperate to go to satsang. My spiritual future is not in satsang. If it was I would be begging him not to ban me.

And that is what is getting to that sevadar. He wants power over everyone. He has it over the Sevadars because they want their seva. He thinks he got “a result”. But he has no idea what that result is yet. Neither do I.

That’s the only thing that makes it worth playing. Because in reality nobody including me is doing anything here of any real significance. It’s all a divine joke that we all take our personal agenda so seriously.

As I walked away from Haynes Park, I was with my cousin. He had patiently waited two hours after satsang for me. I had made it clear to the sevadars that I had a lift with someone to come to Haynes and he has a child with him. I don’t want to put him out.

They probably thought I was lying. But I wasn’t. I have told the truth from beginning to end. I have no reason to lie. I confessed my “big sin” openly from the start. I lied about nothing.

That’s what gives this whole thing credence. I have no agenda that would make me lie. I won’t lie for any outcome because I am not desperate for any outcome.

Am I bothered about “being banned”? Not in the slightest. Just as I had no care in the world when I was banned as a speaker,

My cousin asked me if I was upset about being banned from satsang. “Upset? Do I look upset?” I am about as upset as when I was banned from being a speaker.

In fact I will be the only person who has been banned from both giving satsang and attending satsang.

This “satsang” thing clearly “has it in for me” or so it seems. I hope you all find it as entertaining as I do. Because it’s about to be upped up a notch. I don’t let sleeping dogs lie.

I like a little entertainment. Hey maybe the baba is doing exactly the same, just a thought.

Stay tuned as the next episode unfolds. This was Friday. Saturday was a whole new day with a whole new adventure. Just like every episode of batman I watched as a child ( the one with Adam playing Batman).

“ Tune in tomorrow to see what happens. Same bat-time same bat-channel”. But don’t take it literally as “tomorrow” and call me a liar when it doesn’t happen tomorrow.

Till next time,. Over and out from “The ONE”.

-------------------------

The full story is coming soon. It gets much much more interesting. Ends up in premeditated assault. Instigated by the sevadars.

And when I am saying I want to leave Haynes Park, six people grab me physically and take me where nobody can see and physically assault me by punching me in the face.

They think nobody will find out but don’t realise the power of truth. I am known by many of the old satsangis. I don’t tell lies. If I say it - it’s the truth regardless of if it works against me. And people who know me know this

I am not a violent person. Okay I did accept anami’s challenge to combat in jest . That’s about the extent of any violence in me. Whereas the sevadars in question might have a history of violence, who knows.

The matter will go all the way to the top to the guru himself. I have more than enough support to do this from satsangis who know me and my father and family.

Don’t forget, my father was one of the early uk satsangis from 1963.

-------------------------UPDATE: New comments from Osho Robbins. "Hukam" means divine order or command.

RSSB is meant to be a spiritual organisation and is also called Science of the Soul. I for one have always seen it that way right up to this incident.

Last Sunday, before the national satsang, Babaji said to me in the Q&A that everything always happens “in hukam” and I agree.

This too is in hukam. Nothing happens outside of hukam. Not even this. It was hukam that I get punched in the face. Obviously “The ONENESS” wants to stir things up for me. The Oneness is welcome. Let’s see what unfolds.

-------------------------

There was zero resistance and zero retaliation from me during the entire two day episode. When the punching in the face incident happened I was on the way leaving Haynes Park, and my brother in law saw me leaving.

But the volunteers in question stopped me from leaving and then carried out the premeditated attack.

If anything they will be shocked at my level of nonviolence because apart from asking them to let me go, there was no other resistance from me. Six or seven guys onto one defenceless member of the sangat.

There was no reason for the attack as I was on the way out of Haynes Park. Hardly a sign of great bravery to attack a defenceless person who already wants to leave.

Of course if questioned they may lie but I can prove my position, that I was already leaving. This was a totally unprovoked attack to show me that the sevadars in question had the power to ban me. “Egos on steroids” is all I can say.

The only sevadars I saw were little ladies and old men with cataracts and smiles.

All I want to know is which of the 6 old ladies sorted this trouble-maker out?
They should be given an award for service to humanity, not a scolding.

As for Arjuna and his thousand fists of fury, I’m 99.999999% sure that one slap would put him straight into krav maya neverneverland - maybe a backhander is all the jumped-up excitable wee fella needs.

I always leave 0.00001% chance that Manjit and you lot are not total bullshitters. Much like the tooth fairy, anything is possible but v v v v v unlikely.

I assume you are probably pointing me (or at least including me as I've been discussing/debating with Osho on the current incident), and that I am also one of the commenters who have not revealed their real names, neither I feel it changes anything, we all are real individuals not bots.

however, on this Brian's blog, since last 3-4 years, I have fairly shared a lot of real things including family and personal background and also my experiences to an extent which I found viable to share.

Your comment applies to yourself too, isn't it ?

You mentioned that nobody could understand Osho's love for The One and tagging it wrongly with ego.
No, that is totally wrong, actually you totally misunderstood my feelings just like you pointed me / others there misunderstood Osho.

Just a few days ago I was thanking Brian and Osho for sharing such precious conversations... and admiring Osho for being able to connect with my Master so often and it's so loving that he shares all these conversations with HIM on this Brian's blog.

Why I have been writing all this to Osho is because I felt exactly the same as you felt for him.
I could feel the love inside Osho and I was actually regretting and feeling bad that this sad incident happened with him, I am not pin pointing that it happened due to his ego, everyone has ego, we can not survive without it and it gets hurt too. I was thinking aloud that he could have played the ego better to skip it.

What I meant is that it would have been great if he didn't allow this to have happened to him by tricking the mind instead of getting tricked.

Anyways, Osho, I just hope you will soon be in peace and back into The Oneness business :)

My post did not work out good..so it lost..long story short..,
I tell you I was once banned too..
I know, it does'nt feel fine and also not right.
There must be more more openess over these kind of things.
Misbehavier from sewadars.. I had also in Dera,long ago..but it costed me a lot of sadness
for a long period,because it was difficult to explain to most satsangi's in that time.
So I took the ''blame''..

Well said Manjit. I agree with a lot of what you say regarding Osho’s focus. I enjoy reading his comments about the ‘Oneness’ and I believe he’s always pretty consistent in what he says and the way he says it. He is a truth seeker.
Also while Osho probably does not see it this way - it’s my view that for your average RSSB punter it takes ‘guts’ and clear thinking to stand up there and engage with GSD. So thanks Osho for your past sharings even though it appears most of the folk present do not ‘hear’ what is being said.
Interesting you (Manjit) raise the point about how things changed after GSD’s cancer - you made it once before, not much was said but it did not go unnoticed. Could well be something in it.

A very interesting and thought provoking blog. Plenty of people bring in mobile phones to Haynes park as they are not checked by security at the back of the tent. Generally not a high risk security issue. Although it is against the man made rule at Haynes Park. I personally watched Osho being man handled by 6 sevadars. As Osho agreed to leave in a calm manner, I thought that was the end of it until we left Haynes park and were informed of the event. To be honest this whole episode has really put me off the path and the people ‘in charge’. I believe that the person should be held accountable for their actions. I can’t believe this is the first or final incident with the man being such a bully. The truth always prevails.

I have learnt that 6 sewadars/sewadarnis have been appointed on secret CoC duty and are on their way.
The rules they are going to enforce are: no caps; no talk about one (zero and two are okay expect Sant Mat 2.0 ); no talk about haynes incident; no cell phones/taking notes/thinking.

We need volunteers to form a security ring around Osho.

May Radhasoami shower his blessings on the faithful and the unthinkers

Osho, please do not walk away from this episode. Make sure the perpetrators face the legal consequences of assault and theft, so that these types of issues don't happen again. These sevadars have way too much ego and are so rigid in their behavior and think they are above the law. Sorry that this happened to you, but please be strong and fight for justice. Johnny Singh

"I wouldn't take too seriously at all the skepticism, questions, doubts etc of those anonymous posters who come here, don't share a single fact about themselves, their history, their life etc, using blatantly made up names, initials etc, and expect anyone to care or believe THEM!"

Ahem, yes. If I recall correct, you've told us that you've been to Haynes Park and many satsangs. But in oh so many years, I haven't heard you or anyone else tell a story about being assaulted there. Nor have I heard tell of anyone getting a thumping at any RSSB event, at least since Julian Johnson's putative pummeling by Paul Petzold some 80 years ago.

I feel that I and everyone else here have the right to ask for evidence when someone makes a bold claim. An account of a sevadar mugging at an RSSB event? That's there's a bonafide bold claim. By all means, let people keep making bold claims on this forum. But let the rest of us ask for evidence for those claims.

I don't think anyone here would support sevadars who model themselves on the Altamont security force. At least I hope not. But to suggest we must believe things are now this way just because someone said so in this forum? And there are apparently no witnesses, no police report? It's a bit much imho. In any case, the story could well be true. And I credit Osho for going to the event and trying to make a recording. Just asking for evidence is all. And not for my own benefit, but to encourage said party and everyone who's had a bad encounter with RSSB to put their evidence out there.

On Jesses father and who is he?
Curiosity of course understandable and he will share if he wants to..
.
Folks you shouldnt have to know who somebody is IS in order to guide your comment style out of fears of

Oooops somebody is going to get me.
Be kind benevolent and non attackibg and you dont have to worry about repercussions.
The old saying
If it hurts somebody
If its unnecessary
If its untrue to the best of your knowledge
THEN DONT SAY IT...IN HERE ITS WRITING IT..
IMO..
Chy

"I tell you I was once banned too..
I know, it does'nt feel fine and also not right.". - s*

Thank you for sharing that. Many people get banned for various reasons. After all they DO have rules, and I have broken them on numerous occasions.

I feel fine about being banned and it also feels right.

The only thing that bothered me a tiny bit was that another sevadar had to lie to create a reason for the ban.

The guy who banned me only had to say, " you're banned"

That was more acceptable. Even better would have been if he said that babaji authorised him to ban me.

I came the next day to calmly attend satsang and leave because I really did not think it was a real ban.

Because the grounds for it were based on a lie.

Now I will not be attending any satsang again.

Obviously the incident will be known now to babaji himself and he can handle it as he chooses.

Whatever he chooses, I accept it.

I have dropped the police action. The report was filed but I am not pressing charges.

No point.

I have already apologised and when I apologize its real. I don't do fake apologies made only of words.

I don't need "justice"
Justice has already been
Done. I broke the rules and I was banned. End of story.

I accept the ban. I don't want to be
Reinstated.

The events of the Saturday happened exactly as I have written. The police report will confirm this.

However, I am not interested in taking this further.

I forgive the people involved. The chapter is over.

I believe they were carrying out their seva correctly but got a little carried away.

Can happen to anyone.

After all, I too got carried away.

Literally, by six people. LoL.

In all this happening, I wasn't afraid, because I was confident that they would just talk to me and tell me the ban is real.
I even shook his hand when he came to talk to me with the six guys holding me.
But he refused.
He clearly felt better after the punch because we shook hands at the end.
This time he happily shook hands.

At least some good came from the punch.

No real harm done. No injury to me, just the broken glasses and a slightly bruised ego.

Which I claimed didn't exist but it's obviously there, hiding in the bushes.

He did me a great favour, so "thank you" to the sevadar.

I don't classify it as "wrong". He acted in that moment as he was trained to. Everyone does. The thief, the murderer, everyone.
Including everyone's opinion about what happened.

There are so many opinions because everyone brings their history with them, which they consider is " right"

If you kill (subdue) both brothers, you will enter the house of "The ONE"
And enter sehaj.

So that is what this was all about.

Its all about my old friend, "The ONE"

Nothing ever goes wrong unless I am attached to one side "the good"

The sevadar in question gets caught, is that good or bad from his viewpoint?

Good and bad only exist from a view point. No viewpoint and they both make a hasty retreat.

The real lessons are taught by real life and real punches. Until then its a theory.

This was a tiny little lesson. A mild punch that caused no injury and broken glasses. Only the left lens was broken, in two pieces, that fell on the floor. I told the guys I needed the glasses to drive home.

So if I drop the "wow, this is really bad" perception, nothing happened.

Just a free lesson for me.

People will say things like "god is watching, he knows the truth, he will give Justice"

Yes god is watching, but only for entertainment. Not to create a solution as there is none.

In duality good and bad will interact.
But there is no good or bad.

This incident was not "bad"

It wasn't good either.

Both are perceptions.

Actually it was all happening perfectly. Even the punch was a perfect precision punch. No harm at all.

This is what Nanak was really teaching

When he says "every thing happens in hukam. Don't be attached to any outcome."

Just a week earlier baba said "everything happens in hukam" directly to me.

So while this was all unfolding, it was all in hukam.
So does "God" or The One
Make any mistakes?

If, yes, then you correct them.

O
I'm on the side of The ONE. No mistakes.
You and I will die one day. That too is perfect and in hukam.
Hukam means accept

What would you do if someone was holding a knife to your loved ones. You dont live in the UK do you. Im sure that if your reasoned with them here they would listen to your new age hippy love.

Take is cheap when its others affected. I used to get bullied when I was a teenager but then I joined the forces and the rest is history. I was then a different Arjuna. You see people like you would pray to an imaginary God whereas I would probably put my life on the line by trying to save people.

Jhonnybigbananas you sound like a joker. Are you trying to wind Osho up so that he can keep beating the drums for you? Osho is being made to do and say things here i think otherwise he seems like a knowledgeable man but with his ego getting the better of him. If he has any sense he will let things go and calm down. The most respectful thing he has done here is apologise for his mistakes which will help him in his inner journey. As a Muslim myself I feel he should think about sufism rather than santmat he will have no restrictions there and can do whatever he likes. May peace be upon you :-)

Since you mention think about Sufism rather than Santmat let's hear from you what makes Sufism a better alternate - and let's limit it to the teachings and restrictions (or absence thereof) so long as they pertain to the teachings

SP, I am only saying from restrictions point of view as Osho likes to break rules it seems and here there are no rules as such and he can records all the sufi singers as much as he likes. With regards to teachings santmat has a living master who guides (which again Osho doesn't likes it seems because he keeps talking against him here) sufism doesn't have a master as such as all the singers tends to get respect.

Hi Sufi.
Sufism does not have ( saviour) teachers but there are master teachers to guide people in the sufi way...
Sufi way...as I learned it does teach the inner master and the spirit.
It does not have dhyan and simran the way sant mat does.
No visualization of a persons face in order to gain salvation.
There is chanting of various chants which I know somewhat from experiences in sufi path of the 99 names of God but in sant mat its a bit more regimented with dhyan and simran and then bhajan set time everyday...guru in place to become like your saviour ...not so the sufi masters.
All are just opening to the awarenesses and wherever you start is where you are . nobody is higher or lower just opening from this area to that. No labels as such for achievements.
Opening to the spirit and being aware of ones inner being..
Chy

Osho
Because one day soon there is coming
The "second coming"
The mother of all punches
The punch of God.
Otherwise known as death

Since you have understood Oneness which is beyond good and bad, maybe you need just one more 'punch'.

The Oneness you talk about seems distant, but aren't you that Oneness itself. Truly, the essence of all of us is that unborn, undying, awareness consciousness which is the One in all. But get identified with a body, and we take ourselves to be limited to gender, age etc.
When identified with the mind, we get involved with our emotions, the good and bad, the cause and effect. The Oneness is beyond that body and mind. It is where you can play as God watching the whole entertainment with dispassion in the now.

So, don't wait for (future) that 'one day', 'the second coming' or 'death'. As Oneness you can never die.

Bulleh Shah said something along this line: From here, place it There.

From the body (face) that was punched, from the mind that modulated about good and bad of the whole incident, from the intellectual mind that is understanding One as something different from yourself...place your identity in One - that effortless, inborn, undying , unchanging awareness that you already are and remain as so. All is because of mis-identification.

that was nice to read about the Hukam.
One of the my all time favourite quote in that context:
"Believe in God, but lock your car"

i.e. we shall not consider our stupidity as Hukam.
or shall we?

Dear Arjuna,

This life is a dream too.

Saving people is your profession, and yes it's a noble and respectable one, which has much more dignity than many other professions.
But it's a profession, it gives you a living, it has nothing to do directly with your spirituality.
It gives you more opportunities of being compassionate, if you do, will surely help you.
We can be compassionate in each and every profession and situation which will help us in our journey.

Brother, you are missing and mistaking, big time.
I believe you are not even spending the 5 minutes daily, are you?
You will realise only when you start attending to your meditation.

Cribbing about your teacher that you saw Him on the beach with ladies,
is not an excuse for you not doing your homework.

It is not about RSSB or Babaji.
It is about you it is about each one of us individual.

Why do you try so much to prove that you are a tough guy?
I actually feel the totally opposite for you.
that you are really a soft hearted and gentle person,
who can not see others in pain.

Thugs guised as sevadars. Actually that's wrong too, its one Thug leading a pack of sheep sevadars. The head Thug is past pensionable age but gets his kicks from smacking people who are not likely to hit him back. Why is the RS head allowing known thugs to head up security? Clear sign of ignorance. I'm not advocating retaliation but I'd like to see how the Thug would react in same situation where person who challenged said Thugs ego with equal physical strength and equally if not bigger Thuggish connections? Time to reevaluate who heads up "security"..the Thug is damaging the RS brand!
I respect Oshos stance and understand why he apologised..however what this does is empower Thugs like the RS head of Security to make up the rules as dictated by his over inflated ego..big ego small brain & likely to meet his match sooner than he thinks possible...unless ofcourse the real head of RS kicks the mans ego into touch...to protect his brand that preaches peace.

“When identified with the mind, we get involved with our emotions, the good and bad, the cause and effect. The Oneness is beyond that body and mind. It is where you can play as God watching the whole entertainment with dispassion in the now.”. -HardeepSingh

We all are and will remain identified with the body and the mind and everything else including family, possessions. That will always remain, because this play in maya that I call Unreal, is also happening in this time and space. It is real in the moment. It is maya - it is happening.

How will you ever watch with dispassion? Look at this realistically. If someone is torturing your wife or child in front of you. Can you watch with dispassion?
Will you say “it’s all in hukam and let it happen?”
If you are strong enough to stop it and fight off the offenders, will you do it or will you accept it all as hukam?
Your call. You tell me.

Will you say it’s wrong or right?

Will you take revenge?

My incident I can walk away from and say it was all in hukam and fully accept that position, because it’s not that serious.

I have no injury. Only a pair of broken glasses. My nose hurt for a day but was okay the next day. Nobody else was hurt. It’s a minor incident. I don’t bear any grudge against any of the six sevadars.

A major incident, I would not walk away from. The gurus did, even with major incidents, then after guru Arjun dev, they took up the sword.

Now they decided it was time to fight against all this. That too is in hukam.
Hukam includes the way you act too. It’s not a reason to not act.

Hukam does not exclude any action or any thought.

The tenth guru fought with his sword, but had no enemies, he was not operating from revenge or anger.

One of his own people that he trained challenged him to a sword fight. Guru Gobind won. Now the guy is asking him to finish him off and kill him.
Guru Gobind says “I have never pickup up the sword, I have no enemies. You are my own, why would I kill you?”

This incident is no big deal. It has been brought to the attention of those who can now act accordingly. I personally have no ill feelings towards any of the six. They are doing their duty. If they have opersteped the line, it is up to the people in charge to take action, not my call.
I am part of the solution not part of the problem.
I have apologised and I walk away from it. I will not instigate it further.
I will not be challenging the ban. I will not go to any satsang centre unless I am told I have permission.

Even then I might not go.

I have not publicised the incident for revenge, but to bring it to the attention of the people who need to know. They can decide from there. I am not attached to the result of this.

You wrote
“that was nice to read about the Hukam.
One of the my all time favourite quote in that context:
"Believe in God, but lock your car"

i.e. we shall not consider our stupidity as Hukam. or shall we?”

We shall.
Hukam means everything that happens.
It might be my stupidity to have gone to Haynes on day two alone. But that too was in hukam.
If I was accompanied by a few people, this would not have happened.
I walked into the lions den alone

Everything is in hukam means the doer is the one god. All is done by him.

Your free will is only apparent

You are a puppet thinking you are alive.
But you only live out your programming

Dear Osho,
I like your post,very much so..for yourself,it's happily to see it that way,and it is very true also.
There are more sides to the coin,sometimes we should react and sometimes not..
I wrote a letter to Babaji about it,about my point, and that was beneficial for me to do and also for the sewadar(I think)
So it depends..
It is good to come in peace with things..definitely so..
''Everything has a reason''or ''happens for a reason'',is one of the things Babaji said when he was just
became the master.
That must be true!
To be in peace is a great thing..
I too love the'' ONE..''
By the way I love Sufi's,I go there also a lot.
Peace..
s*

Babaji when asked states that nobody is ever enlightened because he would no longer be alive.

I now agree with him. The fully enlightened person doesn’t even care about holding onto his body.
He has dropped all agendas and attachments. So what will keep him alive?
Any person including me who feels it has happened, is still not there because the let go is not complete.
I am prepared to let this go, only because this is minor.
How far does it need to go before I reach a limit and say, “no more. Now I will not let it go”

Let’s imagine things continued and got progressively worse. I will reach a certain limit.

It’s like Jesus said to peter, forgive seven times.
Okay, said Peter.

The way the said “okay” Jesus got suspicious. Maybe he will count.
So he said “I say forgive 77 times”

Still Peter said okay, because 77 is still a number. At 78 he can get his revenge

Keep ranting about 10 Gurus when you see the history of nations, thousands and even lakhs of soldiers have sacrificed lives for their countries. Now do the homework, in which video is this expression- I met a Sikh man, not sick man. Same applies to Hindus and Moslems, they are not better.

This just sounds like another soapbox - like you want to create another version of sant mat 2.0 or something and to be lauded as a guru in your own right.

Bottomline - No. You. Are. No. Guru.

You got a pop on the hooter because you are a trouble-maker. And I suspect you will get many more.

Accept responsibility for your actions properly. You purposefully disobeyed the rules and so one of the 6 sweet granny sevadars flew into a rage and bopper you one. You should accept it and apologize for being in the wrong, instead of trying to pretend you’re above it all when you are a repeat provocateur.

777 is quite correct on the other thread - he can spot a bullshitter from 777 yards.

George, have a look around, more camera's are watching the people. In China they have coupled the face recognition with an algoritme that turn citizens in good and bad ones.

That wind is blowing all over the earth … big brother watching you

Naturally, there are those who don't care, as … "they have nothing to hide" … what makes it possible for them to ignore what is going on.

That wind blows everywhere, not only In China or Northern Korea and not only in political environments, it blows through every organisation in culture also those that cater for the welfare of humanity.

Things are what they are
bur seldom what they look like
let alone how they are presented by "interested" minds.

There is use and mis-use of legal power
And those who misuse that power use to hide that misuse behind the excuses that this power was legally given to them … so it can never be mis used.

George, one can see the tip of the iceberg, one sees the erupting volcano and the the puss that comes out of an pimpel.

Under the tip is an whole mountain of actions that pushes the tip out of the water so that everybody can see it.
The eruption of the volcano makes terrible things visible that are going on under the earth.
Puss that is emitted by the body shows its disease.

@Haynes Park Mgmt one hopes this is a parody account and not representatives of Babajis management team...
I will say though if it is indeed the head of sevadar Thug himself monitoring and posting here..then you my friend (sic) are in for a very rude awakening of the spiritual and not so spiritual sort. You are a has been throwing your weight around on non violent satsangis. As someone past pensionable age you are no longer able to use that iron fist in the real world so lets wait & watch who kicks whose backside! Not all satsangis are enlightened so we will be forgiven for not forgiving. Unlike Osho some of us don't take to being threatened kindly especially by pensioners with inflated egos and deflated punches.

I do enjoy all the comments here on CofC. I watch my thoughts and reactions to the different viewpoints. Very revealing in my ongoing understanding of who and what I am now and how I felt in the past as a true believer.

Lots of information about the Dera and Baba Ji which I find very interesting. Thanks guys. Its a never ending story of how we see the world, each of us in our own way, believers and ex-believers.

Hearing about Osho being punched is very strange compared to my one and only visit to the Dera in 1998 when it was so peaceful and I really appreciated the sevadars who were so friendly and helpful.

Osho you wrote "We all are and will remain identified with the body and the mind and everything else including "...And you continued with... "this play in Maya is Unreal is also happening in this time and space. It is real in the moment..."

At the superficial level everyone is identified with the body/mind. No denying. But the level of attachment to body/mind for each one is very different. Consider the wave and ocean...(names and form) but both are essentially water. We go to the beach and we get 'see, identified' with the waves and the ocean...and with just a flick of understanding..Wow it is water!

At the battle field Krishna expounded the highest teachings (everything begins in Me, happening in Me and ends in Me, but nothing is effected by Me) to Arjun who had to fight his 'own', but Arjun could not understand so the teachings was diluted to Dharma...so do your duty, he was told. Arjun being a warrior must fight as a warrior. Being 'very identified' to his role as a warrior, Arjun wasted his chance (maybe next life).

What can we do? Churn the milk to butter. As Xsevadar I am thankful to the RS teachings for the seva (where ego/identity can be bleached IF performed selflessly) for the meditation exercises (where mind from multi-pointedness can come to single pointedness)...I.e. milk processing to butter. But, alas, the last process is the jump into the true 'understanding' of Oneness - Just Be It.. that One. In It, the play in Maya which is unreal will continue...and you, the One, will contune spontaneously with actions, non judgementally. If someone is torturing my wife, in that moment I will leave it to that spontaneous action that will spring forth. And it can come out any which way..Hukam. You are right "Hukam includes the way you act too. It’s not a reason to not act." Not to act is also Hukam.

When you can act or not act and 'Know' that you are acting or not acting, it is a beautiful play.

Swami Anubhavana likes to put it "as a man, you 'play' the role of a husband. If the wife dies, will the man die too. Is it not the 'husband' role that dies with the 'wife'. And yet, the man is still alive." Where will you place your true identity? On the role 'husband' or the 'man' that supports the role of the husband. Which is True? If we take husband to be Real, it is the end of hus (laughter) band (ends).

RS - "We ARE spiritual beings having human experiences". But where is our identity? The spirit? The One? Or just the measly human being and its experiences? We all have that highest power to make this choice. It is within the reach of everyone because essential we are That, but with a misunderstanding of our true nature. Admittedly, it is not easy but it is not difficult too. How long does it take a husband to realise he is man? The ego me, to know that I am That? Spiritual journey is the dropping off of all imagined superficial layers..Neti, Neti.

Osho, thanks for your posts...everyone can learn from each other's experiences.

You can fight for revenge and justice because after all you are right.

You can take it so far, then drop it. Forgive and forget. Not so easy because the ego is involved and the ego always wants to win.
That is what is behind the “Do you know who I am?” Expression.

There is the perception that I am important. This is backed by our legal system which gives everyone freedom to speak, act and live as they choose as long as they cause no harm to another.

Farid: jo tuj Maran mukyian......

The non violence route creates a solution not a problem.
Violence never ends, each side continues to react, driven by ego.

The further it goes, the harder it is to back down.
For example if I turn up at Haynes disguised, it’s not so hard to get passed the security. Especially as I have a face mask that completely changes the way my face looks. Now it’s not so easy to stop me. Naturally I would not be alone this time.

So what would happen next?

I am not saying I am going to go. Just speculating as to how far they would go the next time. After all this would be the second challenge of their authority.

Makes you wonder if all this is worth the effort. Why not just officially release recordings of the satsangs and Q&A?

Would save a lot of hassle and extra work. And would clarify his message because then nobody can say “he never said that, I heard it differently “

Osho - Before the event I too was wondering why they had such rules. But that’s immaterial - YOU chose to attend the event, knowing these rules full well, and yet YOU still chose to flagrantly disobey them. Not for the first time.

What is the point of taunting ppl and then complaining when you get your come uppance?

The sevadars don’t want to enter into a philosophical debate with you - they are too ensure the rules are followed, large numbers of ppl are marshalled and that their guru is protected. if someone disobeys the rules, they are ejected ASAP and they are probably all sick to their back teeth of your argumentative trouble-making attitude.

I think there are a number of reasons why those rules exist. The first became pretty obvious to me when I sat down - any large religious gathering is a prime target. Those phones must be a security nightmare. I suspect the other reasons include that the guru believes RS should be a more private matter where you gain more from the direct experience rather than the words being used. I also suspect he and others don’t want a cacophony of calls going off in a tent filled with thousands and for ppl there go want to listen (like me) to be able to do so. And finally I suspect he is a more pvt individual who doesn’t want his teachings quoted out of context, much like the scriptures, which many on this blog seem to have academically studied without truly understanding them.

Yep Jen - it’s completely and utterly different to my experience at the same event also, which I also found very peaceful, pleasant and polite.

So I think it’s either total BS or this guy has been goading Haynes ppl for a while and got some sort of overdue ego equalizer. Who knows what actually happened and what was said. These ‘violent’ run-ins keep happening to the same guy - I mean how lucky can you get. All I got was smiles, tea and schones - wierd.

@hardeepsingh
Excellent comments. I have only read the paragraph yet that I am copying below
“At the superficial level everyone is identified with the body/mind. No denying. But the level of attachment to body/mind for each one is very different. Consider the wave and ocean...(names and form) but both are essentially water. We go to the beach and we get 'see, identified' with the waves and the ocean...and with just a flick of understanding..Wow it is water!”

Brilliant. At the level of living our life we are identified with body and mind. Not just that, also all the “mines”
My family, my money, my house etc even my honour.
All seems very real and it is, in THIS moment. But in the next moment, it’s a memory only.
So when gurbani says this is unreal, it simply means it is going to END. Everything is born, lives, ends. Gurbani says that is unreal because real means forever.
So that instant realisation that it is all water means that the waves are unreal. They arise, they grow to a max size, then they disappear.
Exactly like your and my body.
Hindus have three gods for each one.
Brahma, Vishnu. Shiva. Birth, living, end. Shiva is the god of death.
He is worshipped to ask him to please go right passed my house, don’t drop in for tea, thank you.
All is water. All is god. Formless.

It is within the reach of everyone because essential we are That, but with a misunderstanding of our true nature.

Amazing. The ONE is all there is, that’s why it is called The ONE. All else is just a passing phase.
Identifying with the passing show of maya we begin to think this is reality.
It is, but only in this moment, not ultimate reality. Ultimate reality is that in which there is no time, no space, no boundaries, no me, no you, nothing happens. It is the same state as unconscious sleep. Emptiness.

This oneness stuff has the danger of deteriorating into philosophical nonsense. With such navel-gazing, ppl risk disappearing up their own assholes before getting brought back to reality with a good smack on the hooter.

It’s pretty simple, I am not you and you are not me.
We might be made of the same stuff (atoms), but it’s put together differently. Small differences can mean huge differences. The chimp has 99% of our dna , yet you don’t see any of them designing Saturn V rockets or playing Rachmaninov.

We not only look different, but think differently and independently.
If I were you, I could read your thoughts and you mine. That is not, and has never been, the case.

I am a conscious being with my own senses and mind. I accept that we are all made from the same stuff (albeit put together differently) and I am open to the possibility that there may be a different state of universal consciousness that we can access through practiced focus and stilling our own subjective mind and senses.

The wave and still ocean is made of the same stuff, water, but they are different things shaped by different forces. And as far as I know although both the human body and ocean are made of water - the ocean definitely is not conscious at least in a human sense. The tree does fall in the forest , whether or not it is heard or seen to fall. There are limits to this Oneness claptrap.

Next thing Manjit and Spence are going to flap on about quantum sparrows or some other conspiracy theory, or Osho is going to be giving lectures on SM2.0 . Instead why don’t you just listen to what the guru is saying , it’s far more practical than your own flakey philosophies and enlightenment theories.

A wake up call to all the sewadars. Your mid-term test is fast approaching. Do you have enough points? If not practical test to boost your grades is just around the corner.
Kal is going to attack Hynes Park again. You have been warned. Be ready. Time to get your fists dirty again. Don’t think just act.

Kal is persistent in its attacks and may even disguise as an old lady in pink suit and red bangles to gain entry into the holy hynes park AGAIN where the almighty Radhasoami bestows darshan to the unthinking faithful. Kal will try to sneak in cell phone to record or may even try to take notes with pen and paper. Instead he should first burn old books so he can buy newer books. The old masters were SO wrong. They taught all wrong things. People are getting smart now and many don’t buy the Guru is God-in-Human-Form crap any more. Need to cook up some new fast food type spiritual junk so they keep coming back offering money and free sewa… the footfalls attract businessmen politicians who have deep pockets.

“ These ‘violent’ run-ins keep happening to the same guy - I mean how lucky can you get. All I got was smiles, tea and schones - wierd.”

What violent run-ins?

Can you quote a single one?

Never happened before to me in my life.
Up until now they have always been civil.

That is why this was shocking.

When did I say this was happening all over Haynes? So your argument about what you saw is illogical and irrelevant.

It’s like if I go to an event and someone is knifed and I say, “well I never saw any knives”
That is irrelevant and doesn’t prove anything.
If that is the level of your logic, best if you never apply to be a judge.

Georgy Porgy says the oneness arguments are nonsense but forgets that BabaJi constantly speaks of oneness
One of his favourite quotes is
Paltu these is only ONE, there is no other.

“If I were you, I could read your thoughts and you mine. That is not, and has never been, the case.” Says Georgy.

That’s not even what oneness means.

You have no understanding of the meaning of ONENESS.

Do you understand “non-duality”?

Might be an idea if you actuality listened to what BabaJi says on stage, as you clearly don’t realise he speaks of ONENESS.
Another reason to release CDs then hopefully people like Georgy might actually realise what he is saying.

Hi Osho
You wrote
"The further it goes, the harder it is to back down."
This is when you adopt a fixed point of view. One that gives yourself permission to violate club rules on club grounds. And of course that creates more unnecessary drama when the inevitable response from volunteers (not professional security) happens.

You have the choice to file a charge of assault , because the attention of the police may help the organization pay closer attention to how they recruit, train and supervise their own security team in the future. But a judge will of course scrutinize not only the Sevadars behavior but your own.

Apparently you are trying to get something you want or need from the organization or from Baba Ji. Is it possible that things would become easier, instead of harder, simply lowering your own expectations of that organization and its leader?

It isn't going to supply you with what you want. That seems to be the lesson here, at least from one reader's perspective.

Honestly I am amazed at how despite the years into the philosophy one hasn't been able to understand how RSSB and even GSD views the the One and interprets references to the One by other past masters . Osho takes it a bit to far.

It's pretty simple

Whilst we are no different from the One and have arisen from the One, today we all are in a state disconnected with that One. Each soul has a distinct identity in this creation ruled by Kaal and has its own karmas which need to be cleared/accounted for.

The creation (Kaal's kingdom) is real. So are the stages in the creation and beyond and whilst the One exists in everything in this creation yet he remains unaffected by it. Infact the One sustains the creation. Real also is the journey back ie the stages one has to pass through (and this has been vividly and on numerous instances mentioned by various past masters including Soamiji). But at the same time it's not real (from Santmat perspective for real in Santmat is that's what's permanent).

When Paltu says doosra na koi..... it's contrasting that One with the rest - where the rest being Maya can never be anybody's forever. It doesn't mean that there is nothing except him. Whatever besides him is all Maya and not worthy of human's attention/focus.

Any reference to Ek is to mean that there is only One God and it's only that Ek who is worthy of our worship and not some Master/teacher like GSD or Hazur or Nanak etc who come into this world representing the Almighty to guide and more importantly teach how the connection can be reestablished.

So Georgy on the Oneness bit, I am inclined to you irrespective of what your agenda was for attending satsang.

I am not privy to his interactions with sangat in the west - but I am pretty certain of what he speaks to his sangat here in India - whether in Hindi or Punjabi or even English.

"Shivinder Singh allegedly directed the holding company to acquire debt-ridden firms which collectively lent 10 billion rupees ($140 million) to the family and associates of their guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, according to a complaint filed to the Economic Offenses Wing of the New Delhi police seen by Bloomberg. In return, the younger Singh was promised he would succeed the guru as head of one of India’s most powerful spiritual sects, according to the document."

Investigative agencies are known for being a caged parrot (as the CBI was referred to by the Supreme Court of India) of it's masters ie politicians or over zealous in their charge sheets which often fail the legal test.

Indian media only seeks to improve it's TRP ratings and sensationalize matters with little or no understanding of the issue at hand apart from peddling political agendas.

So it's best to be careful when commenting basis both - the news clippings and filings by the investigative agencies and better still simply wait for the final judicial pronouncement.

Bear in mind the following

- who are the perpetrators of the economic offences? Monies have been laundered out of firms under the management of Singh brothers. Breach of statutes have been caused by their firms and only after the go-ahead of the Singh brothers.
- intent to defraud : on the part of both the Singh brothers and Dhillon family is a key bit that will not only have to be established but proved as well - per law.
- wilful defaulter: whilst Singh brothers fall into this category, am not sure if the Dhillon family members can be similarly categoried
- Ranbaxy has a long checkered history of wrongdoings- much before GSD came into the picture.
- family disputes run long and deep in the Singh clan

Well it appears to me and it may of course have many dimensions...
Some folks on here just hate sant mat want to see babaji fall and smash him in the face cause dissention for everyone .....others love the path and some are intertwining it with whatever they are doing and/or trying to understand better where they are going and if or how RS fits in...
What I dont understand is if people resent RS resent babaji to the extent that they just want to constantly bash !! the whole thing why do they get on this blog? If you hate this entire sant mat..tell us and go away..its ok no one is asking you or judging you to like the path or any path just be a benevolent caring person on here but its not about hate and politics on here. IMO.

IMO this blog is a philosophical area with some news but should be constructive news to help us all and be supportive...Or to learn something.
It seems theres a troll type system running through here as well as general bloggers with differences which is why this is here to open channels help people to grow in their needs.....
So thats my thought for the day..
Chy

Chy wrote
“What I dont understand is if people resent RS resent babaji to the extent that they just want to constantly bash !! the whole thing why do they get on this blog? If you hate this entire sant mat..tell us and go away..its ok no one is asking you or judging you to like the path or any path just be a benevolent caring person on here but its not about hate and politics on here. IMO.”

I have wondered the same thing as you do and my theory is that these people who hate are exers and either they are pissed off that they even got initiated in the first place or they have to hate to prove to themselves that they were right for leaving. It’s what would make them feel justified in their choices.

Profound questions indeed. Shaken me right through to my core despite my over 50 years of association with RSSB.

It's a pity you answered the questions simultaneously. You should have waited for me to place my ignorance of the path and the One on public display.

I take it from your posts your comments are all based on a few PUBLIC question and answers opportunities you have had with GSD and of course your interpretation of what he said.

Better than book knowledge right? Not that I can lay a claim to book knowledge - for I have never felt the need to read a book and so have never read one.

Great you are able to understand the master and his utterances exactly as what He meant.

Now waiting for the day you realise that GSD plays to the gallery and often says exactly what the questioner wants to actually hear.

Anyways Satsangis like me ought to be extremely grateful to you for providing extreme clarity of what Babaji preaches. Will certainly mention your selfless seva to Babaji if and when I meet him next (and I hope he will grant me this request later this year).

Now, the answer to four questions you ask is YES. The Permanent is love, kind, gentle, a source of eternal joy. And a lot more that you haven't listed. The PLM's ran out of words trying to describe the permanent. So don't blame you for your impoverished list.

And if PLM's have used these attributes for the Permanent your views aren't worth two cents ya.

Georgy porgy writes about oneness:
"This oneness stuff has the danger of deteriorating into philosophical nonsense.

It’s pretty simple, I am not you and you are not me.
We might be made of the same stuff (atoms), but it’s put together differently"

You don't understand what oneness is about. Its not a theory. Its what the japji is referring to. Its the realization that only the ONE exists, all else is momentary, a passing phase. But the ONE remains forever.

Its not saying anything about atoms or that we are the same physically

Some if us have lead very moral lives. I grew up without parents and went many a day without much food- as there was no one to look after me. Hence- you join the forces to get meaning and direction.

After this struggle- you realise as Brian did, something is amiss. It's all about money and this may have been the biggest con since the Rosewel Landings yes we have a right to bash. It's a democracy where we are !

Have a think - how much money and the big man and his cronies are generating with all this crap about the One. To keep minds discussing something that cannot be proved objectively - whilst they get away with your money.

I wish you all the best as your posts are interesting to read but on this one - I had to answer.

Babaji appeared for satsang. A lady gave 30 minute satsang in Punjabi. After that Q&A. Most questions were in Punjabi only a few in English.

One man asked Babaji about violence.

He talked about a man refusing to hand his phone over to the sevadars. I understood that the man got violent with the sewadars and the sewadars reacted.

Babaji said that satsang and Q&A are only possible if there is a certain amount of discipline. The sewadars are working long hours and are making it possible for all of us to be here. Babaji stood up for his sewadars.

Hi Arjuna.
That was a nice post to me..
I agree if theres bad business running in RS now it will be looked at and all this scuttle and news etc etc is just brining things out in the open.
My experience in RS dor52 years thats its been in my life has been lovely and there are/were many wonderful people trying to be on a road to higher consciousness and the teachings of the masters are excellent. The life of M. Charan singh was very devoted to the sangat. He was not out shopping decorating his home travelling to party and sight see and collect thibgs to ship home drink drug carouse around. It was all for the development of the sangat.
If we consider him a human then he was an advanced soul here. The teachings are in metaohors and not to all be taken literally. You know this.
Now then the sangat has grown into millions of people wishing for a better souls growth and if you stay positive you will get it as well. Look to the deeper teachings of RS not the pitfalls that have possibly hit this new babaji.
These are there for a reason. The outcome of this whole babaji disaster is not going to be what anyones mind is currently assessing it to be. We do not know. We/ rather some judge that he stole money and now the entire centuries of a spiritual way of thinking is over and done with and so where in fear does everyone go now?
This is a mind trap/game to waste ones time.
Forget about babaji and focus on your own soul growth. Step over this baba issue and just worry about onesself.
Its true there are what appears to be waaay too many satsangis now and no personal time for each one its bloated and overgrown. Thus people get lost and confused with not a stable foundation stress becomes paramount and well its just the times folks.Im truly grateful of my time in the smaller early days.The path was full of richness then. M Charan said...to me the brick and stone of the dera is not the REAL DERA . that is within. Find that atmosphere and take it with you forever.
The lord marks souls and today millions have come why? We dont know all these answers but if we focus on the singh brothers thats not focusing on yourself what will you create? Disharmony within. Babaji may be here to teach us how to focus within by having all of HIS problems. He teaches us.
Try not to lose focus on inner work thats where you will find solace not reading indianews on the crisis of the singh brothers...that is a waste of your attention.
On an old bookmark from the 70s that is faded and bern around here I found a quote written and he said it as well.

MAHARAJ CHARAN SINGH

"MY ONLY ADVICE IS THAT WHATEVER WE MAY DO AND WHATEVER CIRCUMSTANCES WE MAY LIVE, OUR MEDITATION SHOULD BE OUR MAIN CONCERN, AND THIS SHOULD NEVER BE SACRIFICED TO ANYTHING OF THIS LIFE."
Chy

You said it . ....all there... but look at what you said. Now I dont beat on people Im being a friend to anyone I write to on here...
The MIND...not the soul.

The mind is in the field of illusion so anything we experience here is of the mind. The senses all of it is the mind and objectivity is of the mind as well.
Everything being done now with this babaji is to drive the people INWARDS.
You cant get close to him and chit chat grt your tears wiped and cuddled. He tells you hes not the master. Why? So you will find him inside yourself.

Now then different teacher different times and consciousness easier times than now as was with Charan. We had more time to waste to dream to romanticize about life to fall in love with everything...
He was our handkedchief. All love no matter what. He cuddled us all wiped our tears and held our hand....but stressed that its all within our meditation ....not the outer dera or satsangs. Satsangiis opinions. Chys opinions. These are all the mind.
Now then life has twists and turns paths have new information and lessons. we have babaji now with his kink in many lives. Another illusion.
Hes appearing to do everything to throw everyone off the path according to the news...which distorts it all but may have some truths. Time will tell but you keep meditating anyway it suits you just do something!!

So lets give it....
Lets say babaji is all screwed up...IS HE.?
Not for people who need to turn within which may be also nonsatsangiis. Within is a path for anyone who wants to grow beyond this dimension.
If you donated all your money to RS thats ok if it turns you within!. You would have spent it on something else and not learned anything.
You get so tired of THIS ILLUSION OF LIES that you give up and turn within..
Things will get easier if you make that curve perhaps you are but babaji is here to teach us that not to chase him for a hug a darshan a material world boon miracles and repeats of m. Charan.
He is a different soul with a different presentation..
Chy

How could he have seen what was happening to you when:
1.he was scoffing scones
2. Checking the aunties out- who in his words can ass- whip. (Bit wrong but each to their own)
3. Drinking copious amounts of tea - so busy again.
3 he claims people were smiling so clearly he saw what he wanted to see. I can imagine this guy with folded hands and a wall to wall smile. #fake!

Focusing more on content than construct of your post, I won't be surprised if this were to be the official response of the Dera if one were to write to them on hand phones. Little do the likes of Osho realise how disruptive their actions can be to the Sevadars efforts towards ensuring a safe hosting of a satsang program.

Best part the cribbers will act and behave in a similar manner if ever they are honoured with a seva.

This whole incident - why isn't Osho taking it to it's logical conclusion? If he is convinced he was wronged/assaulted, the centre/Sevadars have breached a law, why doesn't he

- put in a written complaint to the Secretary RSSB (with a copy to the UK representative) detailing the assault of course naming the 6 Sevadars involved. Surely it shouldn't be hard for an old satsangi to get the names of those involved.

- make it clear that he expects demonstrable action from Dera on this else he will be compelled to take legal recourse

- highlight that phones are allowed at the backside of the tent and if it's a breach of guidelines why shouldn't the Sevadars responsible be show caused and seek out the action taken. Ask for the Dera's official guidelines on phones on satsang grounds/Dera and inside the tent/shed. If he has supporting evidence that's super

- ask Dera for their guidelines on banning Satsangis from attending Satsangs. Dera has guidelines for almost everything so they should have one for this too.

So it's impossible that everything happens according to my will all the time.

However it is possible to do the next best thing:

Drop "my will"
And replace it with
"Your Will"

Let life unfold and accept.
You still have a desired outcome but
You have only a slight attachment to it.
"Let go, Let go..... Let go......"
Becomes your meditation.

Now cool things begin to happen.

Like getting punched in the face, yet you accept the punch.

Here "punch" means any outcome you didn't want.

So let's get back to the handshake mystery.

Day 1. When I met the guy who eventually punched me, the first thing I did was shake his hand. I had met him before, I had great respect for him. .
He also shook my hand. But of course he had plans to set me up so he could justify a ban.

I had no idea. So I played along not even suspecting foul play about to happen.

When he asked the sevadar to give his version of events, the sevadar said "I don't want to say what he then said to me"
I knew there was not a single thing I said I that was out of order, so I said "go ahead and say it"

He said "he said he would kick me in the nuts" replied the sevadar.

I laughed.

"I said no such thing" and "I never say such things"

Its clearly out of character.

He said "well who do I believe? A sevadar, or you?" Implying the sevadar.

I said "I am telling you the truth"

Then he said he believes his sevadar and tells me "we are not going to get along. You are banned from satsang, local, and national and international"

He handed the phone back to me
After getting me to sign a statement that I have had my phone back.

I shook his hand and left.

I cared nothing about the ban but I was wondering why the sevadar lied.

Then it all became obvious. The higher up guy had called the sevadar over and they chatted for a few minutes before he drove off.

I now knew why. He had told him to say those exact words when asked.

It was a setup. But it was perfect. I wasn't in the slightest upset because coming to satsang was for me interesting entertainment but nothing more.

Naturally I would miss the conversations with guruji but no big deal.......

Day 2. When the 6 guys were holding me, waiting for their boss to come, he finally came.

I extended my hand for a handshake but he refused. "I am not going to shake hands with you" he said.

I was the enemy and you don't shake hands with the enemy.

However I didn't see him as the enemy which is why I offered to shake hands.

"The final handshake"

After he punched me, and as the van was called, I again offered to shake his hand, and this time he shook my hand.

Clearly I had no malice towards him. I did of course report it to the police but I told them not to take any action against him.

The police report confirms it all happened and I reported it immediately while it was still fresh in my mind. I had no reason to make anything up.
The handshake mystery proves I had no malice towards the guy.

@Anami
If I started seeing you in Haynes
When you are in NY
It could means you are a lot more
Spiritually advanced than you are admitting on here.
And that it was the radiant form of Anami that I saw.
And if you deny it, I know you’re just being humble.
That’s how beliefs become formed.

If this is the narrative of what happened then it’s a lie:
“He talked about a man refusing to hand his phone over to the sevadars. I understood that the man got violent with the sewadars and the sewadars reacted.”

The Sevadars already had my phone, which they grabbed from me to delete the files. I absolutely did not get violent, instead I firmly stood up to my legal right to be given my phone back. It was a £1000 iPhone X.
I said I would report it to the police if they did not hand the phone back to me.
Clearly their story cannot be true because if I had the phone, why would I call the police?
They were illegally holding onto my phone and simply wanted my phone back which is my legal right.
They can enforce their rules, but cannot break the law.
They were breaking the law, not just rules.
I made it clear that I wish to leave Haynes Park. What right did they have to make me wait till around 3pm for my phone?
I was firm in requesting my phone back, and said I would call the police.
I only carried out the action I said I would if the phone was not returned to me.
I absolutely never made any threat to anyone. The sevadar was made to lie to fabricate evidence to give the other sevadar a reason to ban me.
The phone incident itself was not grounds to ban me. He had to create something more serious, so he did.

I don’t have witnesses on my side. I have the truth only. He has witnesses but not the truth.

I know the truth, I don’t need to prove it to anyone, as I don’t want any action taken. I reported it to the police while it was fresh in my mind, but I am not taking legal action.

I have no injuries, just broken glasses, which the police photographed.

In Spiritual perspectives vol 3, letter 170 (second to last paragraph) Hazoor states if the atmosphere of satsang is not there, it is much better to sit at home and read santmat books and attend to your meditation, rather than waste your time.
He says it again in the last paragraph.

A month ago I went to a “simran / katha” programme in Walsall. It was arranged in someone’s house. First time I ever went to one.

I couldn’t see anything there to cover my head so I went in without covering my head.

Did all he’ll break loose? Was I assaulted?

No. One person took it upon himself to find a head covering and gave it to me. I am not too good at using it, so I asked him to help and he tied it for me.

No threats, no man handling, no assault.

I was breaking their rule there too.

Here’s the question you need to ask.

Once I said “I am leaving Haynes Park immediately” then what should be their course of action?

The reason I said I was leaving was because I went there in my cousin’s car. He had a child with him. The last thing I wanted was to inconvenience him. If that meant I miss the satsang, I didn’t care anymore.
So I said “I am leaving Haynes Park” and politely asked for my phone back, so I could leave.
I should have been handed my phone back and if they wished they could escort me to outside Haynes Park.
That would have been the legal and civil thing to do.
Instead they refused to return my phone, even to the police.
I had to wait till approx 3pm before I got my phone back.

That is not legal or the proper way to deal with the matter. I am pretty sure that is not standard procedure.

The police involvement was their choice, as I had made it totally clear that unless they gave my phone back I would call the police.

One more very important point. The sevadar who later claimed that I said “I will kick you in the nuts” never said a word to the police even though he came back to the police to take responsibility for the phone.
Why not? Because it wasn’t true and it was only later on that he was instructed to say those words.
Obviously if it was true it made sense to inform the police at that time. After all they were right there, asking questions.

Yes Di
On satsang.
He also says on the RSSB questions recordings I dont know which one but he says M. Charan that is.
Satsang is good to go for some time and as time goes on it changes and we may stop going due to changes and thats ok..WE NEED to learn how TO BUILD THE INNER ATMOSPHERE. That is what we need .
Soooooo yes me talking now.
After sometime many do feel the need to just be with ones own self and try to learn meditate and grow...for me I have brought in other teachings that I have learned from over the 52 years that I have been involved with RS starting at a very early age and an earlier than 20 years old initiation.
Long story...its not that the satsang is no good any more but one can just feel the need to not go and its ok.
If you want to go back....I find the shoes just dont fit but being in the masters presence is another post another day.
Do what you feel YOU NEED not what other satsangiis tell you that you need to do.
They do not know what YOU need most..
Chy

Chy, a couple of weeks ago someone on this blog had asked if it was written anywhere that a master tells disciples not to attend external satsangs.
I came across this letter and posted it.
I agree with you, the path is inside. In our lives we need to create a conducive atmosphere to hear the inner satsang.
I don't think complex policies are needed for external satsangs.
Hazoor in the same letter, I mentioned earlier, states that if you get that atmosphere on a footpath sitting with 4 satsangis, you should go there instead of formal satsangs in beautiful halls.
Di

Chy,
About a week ago someone on this blog had asked if a master had ever instructed disciples to not attend satsangs. I came across this letter a couple nights ago.
I agree with you that the real path is inside and all of our external activities should create a conducive atmosphere, and aid us in attending inner satsang daily.
As Hazoor states in the same letter, if we find that atmosphere sitting on a footpath with 4 satsangis, we should continue it, instead of attending formal meetings in beautiful halls which lack the atmosphere.