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Un-American

I saw this beautiful post by Individ about what patriotism really is. From what I gather, like me he’s a trained scientist, and that scientific background informs and strengthens his commitment to classical liberalism/libertarianism. Making him one of the handful of scientists able to apply their methods to political thought.

But worst of all they try to tell us that rather than remaining true to being a country founded upon Freedom From Government, we should become a country that espouses ‘Freedom’ Through Government. They are not patriots, they do not think like Americans. Now, their heart might be in the right place, and in a couple of instances they might even have a point, but that doesn’t change the fact that what they believe in isn’t the America that men have fought and died from 1776 until today. They want to change every principle that defines our country as they vilify those of us who remain true to its ideals. If that’s love, I don’t want to see what hate looks like.

I would’ve just cross-posted it in full but I got all self conscious, being the new guy and all. I didn’t want to have 2 of the 3 newest posts and seem like I was trying to take over the place.

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John Newman

Thank you for a plain English, simple, honest, straight forward post that in a few words says and means so much to those of us that love our country – not this government.

VRB

I wonder if “they” would see your political view as the same. America is what it is. Some point of views of the founding fathers I would say were reprehensible and took over 175 years to change what America is today. I am speaking of slavery and Jim Crow. A classic liberal to whom.

http://www.indiancowboy.net/blog Nick

that doesn’t even make sense. You are confusing personal positions with political ideology.

Classical liberalism by nature is as anti-slavery as you get. And there can be no doubt that ‘progressivism’ denies the sanctity of the individual.

It’s a tired old and perpetually false method of argument to impute personal actions and opinions of men with the philosophies they espouse.

EX: I’m a buddhist. I whole heartedly believe in the philosophy of it. Of attachment, of loss, of everything. Of the importance of keeping an even keel etc.

Yet I cherish my Mustang, I mourned when my dog died, and I’m one of the most preternaturally angry men you’ll ever meet. That doesn’t mean that somehow buddhism reflects my materialism and anger. It just means I’m a bad buddhist.

VRB

Those personal positions are what shaped America.

http://www.indiancowboy.net/blog Nick

along with the ideological positions. Don’t be intentionally obtuse here.

What is America the ideal? It’s the classical liberal ideal. What is America in reality? From the beginning it was the most classically liberal society ever founded. But it, like all real things, was imperfect. Today, it is rapidly becoming a collectivist/socialist state, not even remotely resembling its ideal, unlike the 1789 version.

VRB

I was not intentionally being obtuse. I got screwed up writing the comment and totally lost my thought.

http://www.indiancowboy.net/blog Nick

Sorry, I can get impatient at times. My apoliges.

I do understand your point, don’t think I don’t. The transgressions and foibles of the Founding Fathers are one of the reasons it’s become very hard to get leftists to acknowledge the inherent justness of classical liberalism. ‘Slaveowners telling me about freedom? HA. Right.’

It’s kind of similar to shooting the messenger, in a way. Only it’s more judging the idea based on the messenger. But adulthood is supposed to confer upon us reason, judgment, and understanding. i.e. the ability to separate the two.

http://www.killerisme.com James

The founding fathers had their flaws but what they gave us was the framework for the best governing system know to mankind. I think sometimes their goals and aspirations in framing the Constitution were too lofty for even them to attain. However, they saw it as worthy to strive for as do I.

America will always have flaws but the Collectivist state we are becoming should be unacceptable to all who love freedom. Republican and Democrat these are only detail oriented ideologies both based on Collectivism. They have their point of view and want to use the state as a battering ram to make others conform or shape a Utopia of their own imagining.

They tout the glory and efficiency of a democracy when we were never given a democracy. A lynch mob is a democracy how appealing is that. No that is not what they had in mind.