Shalom Modi: India and Israel look to deepen ties following victory of the Hindu right

The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) – the party of the Hindu Right – has won the Indian election with a decisive mandate. The victory itself has everything to do with domestic policy, notably the growth-led strategy by the Congress government that drove inequality upwards and that fostered corruption in business life. The BJP began its career as a party with a programmatic hatred of minorities – mainly the 120 million Indian Muslims – but has since smartly camouflaged that odium behind the rhetoric of good governance. But the anti-minority sentiment is not absent; it was simply well-handled, with the BJP’s leader, Narendra Modi, winking toward that part of his party’s beliefs but speaking fulsomely about the need for economic growth. It is the latter that catapulted his party to its major victory.

The BJP is the electoral heir to a long-tradition of Hindu nationalism that has roots in the 19th century and was consolidated in the 20th century around the ideology of Hindutva (Hinduness). Hindutva intellectuals looked around the planet for examples of other religious nationalisms for inspiration, and, naturally, a few eyes settled on Israel after its defeat of the Arab armies in 1967. In Organiser, the periodical of the RSS – the brain center of the Hindutva movement – Chitragupta asked in 1967 why the Israelis and the Hindus fared better in their struggle against the Arabs and the Pakistanis respectively. He had in mind India’s defeat of the Pakistani armies in the 1965 war, as well as Israel’s triumph in the 1967 Six Day War. The problem, Chitragupta argued, is not in armaments but in the civilizational advantages enjoyed by Hindus and Jews. “The Islamic world is not destitute of genius, or ability,” he wrote, “but it has not been given a dog’s chance because it is under the benumbing control of a rigid theology and petrified dogma.”

This dismissal of Islam came alongside the combined praise of Judaism and Hinduism for “their devotion to the pursuit of truth without blinders.” It is this kind of civilizational connection that roots Hindutva’s very strong pro-Israeli sentiment. Hindutva and Zionism shared a muscular nationalism that developed – because of their context – a programmatic apathy to Islam and Muslims.

Namaste Sharon

In 2003, I wrote a book called Namaste Sharon – it was about the visit of Israel’s Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to India. Sharon was the first Israeli leader to come to India. Between 1948 and 1991, India did not have diplomatic ties with Israel. It placed itself firmly in the Palestinian camp. When the Congress government decided to abandon its national development economic policies in 1991, it jettisoned large parts of its non-aligned foreign policy. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the demise of the Third World project drew elites across the world to seek a new rapprochement with the United States. Congress leaders quite openly said to me that the highway to Washington, DC, would best go through Tel Aviv. Indeed, that was the reason for India’s shift of policy in 1991. It took a decade to cement ties, and then in 2003, Ariel Sharon walked to New Delhi on the new bridge that the two countries had built.

Relations between India and Israel grew as a result of a pragmatic need for the Congress-led government to cement ties with Washington, DC, and its allies. From the very first days of the new relationship, elements that remain intact came into place – commercial ties, particularly in the tele-communications and energy sectors as well as the burgeoning arms trade from Israel to India; military ties, with the two countries collaborating on counter-terrorism techniques; cultural ties, with Israeli tourism transforming places such as Dharamsala and Khajuraho, where Hebrew signs are now legion and shopkeepers have learned enough Hebrew to converse with their guests (who are often men and women recently off duty from their terrible jobs at checkpoints – they turn to Tibetan meditation in Dharamsala as a way to assuage their guilt). These ties increased during the Congress-led government of the 1990s, the BJP-led government from 1998-2004, and the Congress-led government of the 2000s. They have become part and parcel of the Indian business and security infrastructure, with the most recent figures showing, for instance, that Indo-Israeli trade in military goods is now at $10 billion per year. India is the largest importer of Israeli military goods.

Only the Communist Party of India (Marxist) amongst the Indian political parties seeks a shift in the direction of relations between India and Israel. Its manifesto from 2014 says, “extend full support to the cause of a Palestinian state; sever military and security ties with Israel.” There is a mainstream consensus over Indo-Israeli ties.

If that is the case, why did journalist Palash Ghosh write in the Indian business press that Narendra Modi is “Israel’s best friend in South Asia”? After all, much of the Indian ruling class is committed to the military and commercial ties with Israel. Ghosh reflected something that had been pointed out by the Israeli academic Yiftah Shapir (Tel Aviv University) recently. India, said Shapir, is not a reliable ally since it has not fully “given up its non-aligned identity. India’s behavior in international forums does not indicate that it can be relied on to help Israel in any difficult situation. India’s position on all aspects of the Israeli-Arab conflict is not a neutral one, rather is decidedly pro-Palestinian.”

Shapir comes to this discussion with the view that anything that is not 100% pro-Israeli is 100% pro-Palestinian. He does not acknowledge the distance that the Indian ruling class has moved since the 1980s on West Asian policy. Indeed, during the Israeli attack on Gaza in 2012, the Indian statement was so anemic that the Palestinian Ambassador in Delhi, Adil Shaban Sadeq said it was “too cautious.” India was pushed to release a second statement that criticized Israel for its “disproportionate use of force…which resulted in the death of innocent people.” Nonetheless, the Indian foreign policy establishment and the ruling bloc have straddled their interest in deepened commercial and military ties with Israel alongside a remainder of sentiment for the Palestinian cause.

It needs to be underscored that this latter sentiment is also undergirded by India’s reliance upon Gulf oil, which comes at a small political price. If India were to abandon its rhetorical and diplomatic fealty to the Palestinian cause, it is likely that the Saudis – who also maintain this double game – would not be kind to India’s oil needs and its need to send over seven million Indian workers to the Gulf (these workers remit funds to India which helps balance its foreign reserves). In March 2013, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told the Shura Council in Saudi Arabia, “There is no issue more important for peace and stability in the region than the question of Palestine. Far too long the brave people of Palestine have been denied their just, legitimate and inalienable rights, including most of all the establishment of a sovereign, independent and viable Palestinian state.” This is the kind of sentiment that Shapir has in mind.

The BJP does not share this double view – bullish on the commercial and military ties, bearish on the full diplomatic support for Israeli actions. It comes to the project with an ambition to create a new continent of diplomatic allegiances – Washington, Tokyo, Tel Aviv — an axis of countries that wish to constrain China and the “Muslim World.” Two years ago, Modi’s guru, the RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat gave an important address to the Bharatiya Vichar Manch. The main theme was what he perceived as the weakness of Indian foreign policy. “Our image in the international arena is that of a meek nation,” he complained. “Israel and Japan’s vision has made them power nations.” What is needed is a more muscular policy to “effectively counter China,” This policy had to be mirrored on that of the Israelis and the Japanese, two powers that leveraged their national vision to bring disproportionate gains.

What Bhagwat did not mention is that both countries rely on US funds for military aid and a US military umbrella. Their “self-reliance” is utterly compromised by their place in the US military architecture (a Japanese Prime Minister, Yukio Hatoyama, who wanted to remove a US base, for instance, was hounded out of office in 2010 by the US government). Both the Congress and the BJP seem unfazed by their entry into the US orbit.

Modi had been cagey on foreign policy during the election campaign. It is not his strong suit. A denial of a US visa for a decade rankled. He did indicate a turn toward Japan and an entente with China on the outstanding border issues. Modi said little about West Asia, and hardly anything on Israel. The state that he governed for the past decade has close commercial ties with Israeli firms, but that is the case in most of India. It is not itself an indication of anything.

Modi’s Hindutva, however, has a well-worn track record with Israel. It seeks not only commercial and military ties, but a civilizational and diplomatic connection. This would be welcome in Tel Aviv, which is why there is already talk of a Modi visit to Israel – the first Indian head of government to make this trip. Will India be able to make up the fourth vote on behalf of Israel in the UN along with the United States, Palau and Nauru? It is unlikely. India’s links with the Gulf are necessary and would be jeopardized by any shallow diplomatic pivot to Israel. But that is what Modi’s BJP would prefer.

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About Vijay Prashad

Vijay Prashad is the George and Martha Kellner Chair in South Asian history and a professor of international studies at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. He is the author of Uncle Swami: South Asians in America Today and The Darker Nations: A People’s History of the Third World (both published by The New Press), as well as The Karma of Brown Folk. The Darker Nations was chosen as a Best Nonfiction Book of the Year by the Asian American Writers’ Workshop and won the Muzaffar Ahmad Book Prize. In 2013-2014, Prashad will be the Edward Said Chair at the American University of Beirut.

123 Responses

Modi and Netanyahu’s Israel perhaps have something in common – promoting violence against Muslims (where Bibi is concerned, Arabs), still it shows that Bibi will break bread even with those admiring “anti-semitic” behavior, to achieve his devious goals.

It was RSS founder who admired Nazi and Hitler and openly celebrated the Nazi assault on neighboring countries and on Jewish people. His fascination with Nazi was not about the politics but the supremacist racial ideologies, that a Jewish or Roma ( Indian descent ) would have found so galling then nd will find now.
But if the Syrian rebel can establish mutual defenses and Libyan Jihadist could be vetted by Bernard Levy – the French Philopsopher , then anything is possible.

It’s ironic. A neo-fascist Hindu movement that viewed the Nazis with admiration… now Israel’s new BFF.

I guess Israel will take any friend it can get at this point. It has openly and warmly received Christian Evangelicals, many of whom view Jews as defected Chrisitans that must repent before Judgement day or burn in hell for eternity. Not one bit anti-Semitic, there.

Isn’t it strange how they are able to embrace those who admire Hitler and the Nazis, so easily, while folks who call for BDS and mention that Israel is becoming an apartheid state (I think it already has), have been attacked, insulted, and called anti-semitic? The Indians will be naive to invite the monster in to their country, if they took a hard look at what that monster is capable of, once it’s tentacles grip their leadership, like it has in America.
India will never recover from that disaster.

It is funny to read the non sense you have written and the knowledge you have.The modified salute pic you have posted is the pledge that every Indian takes, in each and every school in Indian we take this pledge
and there are different hand signs which people prefer, the pic shows one of the hand signs.
link to prouddesi.tripod.com
The wiki page link to en.m.wikipedia.org .
Note:-Please check your facts before posting
it.

Please do not insult indians and RSS because of your ignorance about indian civilization.
1.Indians have been using swastika and “Aryan” term since 4000 years so it does not make all hindus nazi.
2.RSS has been called the most staunch zionist organisation in India.And now I will directly come to the controversy regarding Hitler sympathesisers in RSS.RSS leader M S Golwalker indeed praised Nazi for their organizational ability and discipline but it does not by any means makes him a hitler admirer.M S Golwalker condemned Nazi for holocaust in harshest manner and fervently supported creation of Israel and India’s alignment with it.

This is current, but I remember this being trotted out a few years ago when the “talks” hit an impasse. Apparently Abbas is a denier when it suits (when he acts relatively independently of Israel’s needs), but not a denier when it suits the process charade/strategy of assimilation.

* I use quotes because it either consistently is a glaring red line, or it consistently isn’t. Changing the gravity and/or currency of the charge from one moment to the next according to needs changes/lessens the meaning.

“According to some articles Modi’s Gujarat considered Hitler a textbook hero”

Rubbish – what a classic example of Godwin’s Law. Contriving some association between someone and Hitler, in order to justify your dislike of them? Pathetic. This type of left-supported ethnic libel is exactly what motivated me and so many others to vote for Narendra Modi, and I’m a lifelong atheist. If my scruples were as low as yours, I’d be posting pictures of Hitler and the Mufti of Jerusalem – goodness knows there’s plenty of those floating around the net.

“Yes, pathetic. Except that the links between Nazism and RSS’s mythological Aryanism is not just historical but current.”

Nope, you’re simply posturing your dishonest fabrications as fact, and cherrypicking any contrived association you can find. Likewise, during WW2, the European allies used to pretend that Hitler was under the grip of “Eastern mysticism and black magic” in order to avoid noticing all the Christian crosses on the graves of German soldiers. The same colonial troops who were used to win the war were kept hidden away from the victory parades, so that Europeans could feel liberated by their own. My Gurkha grandparents fought for your freedom – even while they were denied freedom and voting rights by your grandparents.

“Atheism is not considered heretical within the philosophy of Hinduism (in fact, RSS’s forefather VR Savarkar was an atheist), but that’s beside the point. It’s also amusing how you blame the “left”.”

Which only goes to show that “Hinduism” isn’t exclusivist, in contrast to the caricatures being asserted on this site. Cats find mice “amusing” – I could care less about what you condescendingly find amusing. The word “Hindu” was itself coined by Muslims. The word “Hindu” basically comes from the river “Indus”, which is on the edge of the Indian subcontinent facing the Middle East. “Hindu” is just “Indus” pronounced with a Middle Eastern accent. It was Muslims, both trading and invading, who coined the word “Hindu” and slapped it onto the myriad ethnic groups which inhabit India – it’s no different than how Colombus slapped the label “Indians” onto the Native American tribes of North America. Eventually, as Native Americans became politically awakened, they became fed up enough to do away with the “Indian” label. Muslims in India aren’t a minority – they’re a plurality. They’re the largest ethnic group in a sea of smaller ethnic groups. This is reflected in the unitary bloc-voting pattern of Muslims – which causes the entrenched socialist kleptocracy to go out of their way to cater to them at the expense of wider society. Recently, a minister in the Karnataka govt declared that Muslims shouldn’t have to repay bank loans, because they’re special. Conversely, the fact of Hindus actually being a variety of ethnic groups is reflected in their diverse voting patterns, linguistic diversity, and the myriad of deities, spiritual and cultural practices – which causes the socialist kleptocracy to pursue divide-and-rule by pitting them against each other, colonial-style. Ethnic-baiting by crooked socialist politicians has become the norm. The public are fed up of this predatory gamesmanship, and have realized that tribalism and factionalism are vehicles for corruption, and that nationalism is the bedrock of civics.

It was Muslims, both trading and invading, who coined the word “Hindu” and slapped it onto the myriad ethnic groups which inhabit India – it’s no different than how Colombus slapped the label “Indians” onto the Native American

sanman, could you please try to avoid repeating the exact same argument with the exact same words, in the exact same thread, especially when you’ve ignored the response to your same allegations earlier?

The word Hindu is derived (through Persian) from the Sanskrit word Sindhu, the historic local name for the Indus River in the northwestern part of the Indian subcontinent (modern day Pakistan and Northern India).[2][a] According to Gavin Flood, “The actual term Hindu first occurs as a Persian geographical term for the people who lived beyond the river Indus (Sanskrit: Sindhu)”.[2] The term Hindu then was a geographical term and did not refer to a religion.[b]

So how exactly can you judge how low MY scruples are, by reading a few lines in my comment, linking an article from a credible source, that I did not write? Go ahead an post any picture you like, it does not bother me.
Perhaps you can join Pamela Geller in putting up those anti Islamic posters in subways. Just so you know, you will not like many comments here, and many do try to support their comments with links. If you do not like it, write to those websites and voice your protests. Sometimes the truth hurts when it hits a sore spot.

During WWII leaders of the RSS were open admirers of Adolf Hitler.[32] Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar, who became the supreme leader of the RSS after Hedgewar, drew inspiration from Adolf Hitler’s ideology of race purity.[33] RSS leaders were supportive of the Jewish State of Israel, including Savarkar himself, who supported Israel during its formation.[34] While Golwalkar admired Jews for maintaining their “religion, culture and language”.[35]

nazis were supportive of the Jewish State of Israel too. in the end, it didn’t mean squat.

Mufti of Jerusalem Al Hajj Amini and the Palestinian National Movement
-Philip Mater.Executive Director of the Institute for Palestine Studies and associate Editor of the Journal of Palestine Studies. He taught at Yale . This book does not buy the Hasabra against the freedom fighter and sincere man like Mufti .
Meeting Hitler is not a death sentence for conscience.
Subhas Chandra Bose met.
Many Zionist even sat at the door begging to meet Hitler.
Before Mufti went Germany, he was targeted for assassinations by Zionist . Its time UK refused. Second time the Zionist assassin died in Iraq while trying to kill him.
Mufti was a challenge. He successfully understood and measured the situation. He appreciated the significance of 1916 when UK was less heavy in its presence and Zionist were still asking enemies and friends of imperial powers to help them in the project that nowadays the Hasabara
try to portray as anti-colonial struggle like that of India .
That was the time to mount attack and revolt. Still he did not come to occupy any resistance movement as leader. He came after the actual leaders were killed ,eliminated,and jailed. He offered binational independent,democratic state with no further immigration. But his ideas ran counter to Zionist and so he had to fall, be ridiculed,and now demonized.
He met Hitler. Thank God, he did not meet Balfour or Churchill,or David Niles of Truman administration.

Zionist tried hard to manufacture evidences,supply witnesses,and demand executions . But the British intelligence looked at the forgery and ignored it. Even Eichmann in his trial refused to implicate Mufti for there was nothing against Mufti.

Yes the Zionist had its own Curveball back then and had ran offices like it ran OSP ( against Iraq war) or the way it tried to run Iran Directorate to manufacture evidences and guide the pathways to war.

Hi Folks
Welcome to the “Chat” , give Indians and India a break , it was fairplay and the peoples choice , We could all live in Peace , Please note trying to convert people by money or force power to change there belief system has been practiced by almost all Alien powers who came to rule India.
Why did they come to India ? to help India ……………..or Indians, come on open your ears and eyes , it was organized plundering of wealth, heritage, ideas, philosophy and to impose there ideas of pseudo superiority , remember the “Macualy” principle
Wake up ,history changes and power balance too , wait and watch and be careful what you say about India ,JAI HIND, Malgudi

“09/10/2003 Asia Times
R Maitra
Congressman Ackerman said ” Israel was surrounded by 120 million Muslims
while India has 120 million Muslims” in joint Capitol Hill Forum held between Indian Political Action committee , AJC and AIPAC”. http://www.atimes. com”

while Lantos in the same meeting was opening another line of hate against Muslim.

So…if the Palestinians say they want peace, Israel will:
– halt its 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder;
– withdraw to within its / Partition borders;
– honour its obligations under international law; and;
– enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

– Defensive military campaigns. The other things are lies.
– Yes… Well, I think there will be land swaps. Big “settlements” like Ariel or Maale Adumim will always be a part of Israel, and big Arab tows will be part of the Palestinian state.
– Israel follows International Law much more than the Palestinian Authority and indeed Hamas.
– Israel has entered into sincere negotiations, it’s the Palestinians who don’t, who put preconditions. Israel has released tens of Palestinian terrorists in order to make the Palestinians want to negotiate. What has the PA done? Making an alliance with Hamas, a terror organization that does not recognize Israel’s right to exist.

As Golda Meir (Z”L) said: “There will be peace when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”

Palikari you may have missed it even Kerry, Indyk came right out and finally stated that Israel was far more at fault for recent breakdowns. That Israel’s persistent expansion of illegal settlements were the problem. Come on the truth and facts are out of the bag..do you read the news?

Kathleen, while I certainly agree that the latest round of talks cracked up under the mountain pressure of increased settlement activity, it’s foolhardy to ignored the rejection of the Barak offer in 2000 or the Olmert offer in 2008 (both of which were substantially similar to the Kerry Framework.) The trick is that the current Likud-YB-JH wing of the Coalition has zero inclination to agree to a peace deal.

I think the pressure from the Obama Admin is as much aimed at getting a genuinely and workably pro-2 state Israeli Coalition gathered as it is anything else. It’s why they went to Barnea in YA (a Hebrew paper.) If Netanyahu appears isolated, there’s a chance that the Israeli public (already moving away and towards Lapid-ism as of the last election) follow accordingly.

I do think that Abbas is dedicated to a 2SS and I actually happen to think that Bibi would prefer one, but not at the cost of his Coalition. It’s also important to remember that Abbas, when personally pressed by President Obama, failed to assent to the Kerry Framework even with reservations (unlike Netanyahu.) Yair Lapid (no liberal) supports negotiations with a unity PA. Livni went and met with Abbas in London without Bibi’s permission (Lieberman has tried to waive this away.) Most Israelis and Palestinians support a 2SS because they know the alternative is likely to be unpleasant at best.

It’s also important to remember that Abbas, when personally pressed by President Obama, failed to assent to the Kerry Framework even with reservations (unlike Netanyahu.)

can you link to that ‘kerry framework’ you are referencing please, especially the part that deals with jerusalem and the jordan valley. not the proposal for a framework (which amounted to pushing the final plan down the road a year,nothing about resolving jerusaelm, and leaving israel with the jordan valley) but the actual framework. and what on earth would be the justification for abbas to agree to that which amounted to permanent submission? he hardly needs kerry for that!

and the olmert offer? the one on the napkin abbas couldn’t consult lawyers about over night? surely you jest. and the barak offer was a sham.

A new and highly controversial phrase has entered the sometimes cliche-riddled Indian press: “Hindu terrorism”.

As with the term “Islamic terrorism” and “Christian fundamentalism”, this latest addition to the media lexicon is highly emotive.

It was in the aftermath of the 29 September bomb blast in the predominantly Muslim town of Malegaon in the western state of Maharashtra that the term “Hindu terrorism” or “saffron terrorism” came to be used widely.

That was because the state police’s Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) arrested 10 Hindus following the blasts and has said that it wants to arrest several more.
…..

The trial into the blasts case involving members of Sanatan Sanstha, affiliated to the Hindu Janjagran Samiti, continued in the sessions court on Wednesday with the prosecution concluding its arguments. Special public prosecutor Rohini Salian said that witnesses supported the prosecution’s case and their depositions were in line with the investigations.

On June 4, 2008, a bomb exploded in the parking lot of Gadkari Rangayatan in Thane, injuring seven. A play, ‘Amhi Pachpute’, was to be staged there. Sanatan Sanstha members had protested against the play On May 31, 2008, a bomb exploded at Vishnu Bhave auditorium in Vashi. On February 20, 2008, a bomb was planted at Cineraj cinema in Panvel. Seven persons were arrested in connection with the blasts.

The anti-terrorism squad (ATS) arrested six persons-Ramesh Gadkari (50), Mangesh Nikam (34), Santosh Angre (26), Dr Hemant Chalke, Vikram Bhave (26) and Hari Divekar-in connection with the blasts and booked them for criminal conspiracy, attempt to murder and under various sections of the IPC.

Two of the six accused were sevaks of Sanatan Sanstha. The ATS had claimed to have recovered six batteries, one timer and half-a-dozen detonators from near Nikam’s house. According to the ATS, Gadkari, Bhave and Nikam knew how to make bombs and were present when the bombs were being manufactured.

…The trial in the blasts involving members of Sanatan Sanstha, a sister organization of Hindu Janjagran Samiti continued in the sessions court on Wednesday with the prosecution concluding its arguments.

interestingly, the chief of india’s Anti Terrorism Squad, responsible for solving those crimes, died along with 14 other officers, in what appeared to be an ambush at the beginning of the mumbai bombing. payback?

This is chicken and the egg stuff. Other ethnic groups like the Hindus have needed to push back against Muslim supremacy and terrorism. Their behavior stems from the need to defend their position. In the same way as Israel was always on the back foot – it is only so long that you can do that, it is not sustainable. Eventually you need to assert yourself and stand up for what you believe is right.

>> Other ethnic groups … have needed to push back against … supremacy and terrorism. Their behavior stems from the need to defend their position. … Eventually you need to assert yourself and stand up for what you believe is right.

I’m very glad to hear you’ll support the Palestinians the next time they stand up for what they believe is right.

Strange you said that. That is exactly what the Palestinians say. They say they are pushing back against Jewish supremacy and terrorism. I would say they have a legal right to say that considering they have lived for decades under a brutal occupancy, and have their lands stolen on a daily basis. At least their claims can be supported by documented records released by human rights agencies. Wow, Modi has not been fully installed as the PM, and the apologists for Israel is already trying to link themselves with him, claiming common ground. It seems Israel and Modi have one thing in common – violence against unarmed Muslims.

That’s just plan bigotry. The Ira wasn’t fighting Muslims. The American colonials weren’t fighting Muslims. The idea that other groups resort to terrorism because their fighting Muslims is just a bunch of bigoted bs.

Annie Robbins,
Again, if you keep trotting out weird conspiracy theories as part of your ethnic libel, you’ll only ensure that more of us vote for BJP. I’m a lifelong atheist, but I was more than glad to vote for BJP after seeing the buildup of slander and lies from the Left. Keep parroting the left-wing lies like you’re doing – there are a lot more of us than there are of you, and ethnic libel like the kind you’re trotting out it only making us angrier.

Keep parroting the left-wing lies like you’re doing – there are a lot more of us than there are of you, and ethnic libel like the kind you’re trotting out it only making us angrier.

oh that sounds very interesting. and what will you do when you get angrier?

and what lie? please explain. the information i posted was documented. i hardly think the concept Karkare was ambushed should come as a shock to anyone. it was all over the news back then, as i recall. see my questions to mayhem up there.

“Keep parroting the left-wing lies like you’re doing – there are a lot more of us than there are of you, and ethnic libel like the kind you’re trotting out it only making us angrier.”

I would call that an intimidating comment, stemmed from some frustration that Mondoweiss cannot be controlled, and that the truth hurts. Perhaps MW should have a word of caution for right wingers, hasbara, and apologists, that they may not like what they see here, and are in no way obliged to read these articles, nor make comments, they should feel free to go on to their “truthful” right wing websites, and spew over there.

You can bait me all you like. The fact is that the Congress Party has become the Mubarak regime of India – a ruthless kleptocracy trying to portray the bulk of the population as fanatical, in order to justify a police state to keep its boot on everyone’s necks. The Mubarak regime then further goes out of its way to whisper into the ears of minorities, telling them “The majority here are fanatics! Support our regime because only we can protect you! If we fall, you’ll all be wiped out!” Similarly and perversely, India’s corrupt Congress Party govt does the same thing, trying to sew fear among particular ethnic groups in order to harvest them as loyalists who will fight for the regime to bitter end. Short of raising their own orphans like Ceaucescu did, the crooked ethnic-baiting Congress Party establishment will stop at nothing to cultivate loyalists who can rally to the defense of the kleptocracy. By pursuing this ugly route, the Congress Party has ensured this widespread public backlash that has resulted in that party’s complete downfall.

I would call that an intimidating comment, stemmed from some frustration that Mondoweiss cannot be controlled, and that the truth hurts.

i find it amusing and altogether unconvincing kay. intimidation and accusation is not a substitute for debate. the poster claimed i was lying and refuses to counter mainstream media articles or provide any evidence by way of links to back up his allegations. furthermore, how the death of the chief of the anti terror squad can be considered a ‘leftwing’ issue is beyond me. and now he claims i am baiting him? phfff. let him back up his allegations if he wants to be taken seriously.

and what to make of this:

a ruthless kleptocracy trying to portray the bulk of the population as fanatical, in order to justify a police state to keep its boot on everyone’s necks.

not one supporting link for evidence! and we’re to believe, all of a sudden, india was under a dictatorship like mubarak? it’s somewhat incredulous he offers no source. i know the times of india or even the hindu times must have op eds.

” I can say is it’s a bloody useless tactic – it just makes the person using it look like an idiot.”

Well, that makes it an unintentionally helpful comment. It lets me know that this particular person is given to stupid arguments, and if I want to understand the issues, even from a rightwing point of view, maybe I need to look elsewhere. Unless all the rightwingers sound the same, and then that is in itself useful to know.

i wouldn’t take that seriously. i used to hear that same kind of rhetoric used as a tactic back during the mccain/obama debates. ‘i used to be neutral but hearing the venom from obama supporters now i can’t align with ..etc.’ it’s a tactic to get one to go on the defensive, it’s not actually an argument. i’m sure as “a lifelong atheist”, he was more than glad to vote for BJP regardless of what the ‘left said’ merely because he’s a right winger. besides, what difference does it make if a person goes to the polls ‘happy’ about their vote or unhappy? it all amounts to the same vote.

Annie and Ecru, I think when they are faced with facts and links, and cannot defend the indefensible, they resort to personal insults, and lies. I am familiar with this kind of hostility, their main intent is to silence us, or intimidate us, as you can see by their comments.
I doubt they will change anyone’s mind here, considering the lame attempts, .

This may come as news to you but just because people don’t like the BJP doesn’t mean they support the Congress Party. Life’s a bit more complicated than that.

The Mubarak regime then further goes out of its way to whisper into the ears of minorities, telling them “The majority here are fanatics! Support our regime because only we can protect you! If we fall, you’ll all be wiped out!”

Hmm. Sound like what the Israeli Govt keeps saying to Israeli Jewish people and anyone else who will listen.
“We’re surrounded by a sea of Muslims out to drive us into the sea – so let’s get them first.”

“…sew fear among particular ethnic groups in order to harvest them as loyalists who will fight for the regime to bitter end.”

Sounds a bit like you’re getting your excuses in early for launching a “pre-emptive strike” on those minorities there. And you wonder why the BJP has a bit of a reputation…….

It is not the electoral win by BJP that is unnerving. It was a fair election and it was the democratic expression of Indian.
But one should not miss the ugly truth that Modi was anointed by the corporate and by the media as the only man who can offer India a way out. Money never before have played such a role and media has never been so biased as was this time for months in coverage.
Congress to maintain the control under family rules have alienated many leaders and have removed many skilled politicians . Can one imagine a Modi in this Congress. Party? Congress is populated by loyalists and sychophants. It is dying and no amount of pious utterrings about secularism will bring it back to life. It has used the insecurity of Muslim without ever trying to create a more tolerant society. Muslim politicians have tried to see BJP only through the prism of Hindu extremism and have neglected to appreciate the reason Hindus admire it for.
Here comes the age old Asian tradition of creating barriets and boundaries between communities and societies. It has been the philosophy of the ruling class . Even effort to understand each other will raise suspicion on both sides ,will be ridiculed as some kind gimmick or choreographed dancing that is removed from the reality.
Somehow the system or the society assume that the two are antithetical to each other. There is deep suspicion on both sides. This massive blind spot can’t sustain a democratic process.

Israel sees an opportunity of making a killing, making inroad,and polarizing it further mainly by implicit Muslim attitude to Israel. The polarization helps Israel. It does not help India. By rejecting overt embrace of Israel, BJP can gain Muslim votes and supports. But that is unlikely . It will automatically be termed as appeasement and pseudosecularism. Keeping Muslim away this way also helps to keep the base of RSS within tent.
But BJP / RSS should understand that this argument of securing Indian security through Israel despite objections from Muslims and despite the evidences to the contrary will gradually force Indian Muslim to look outside India to bolster their cases and their arguments and seek legitimacy of a different kind.
Indian Muslims are tolerated not accepted as equal trustworthy. But system based on neglect can’t survive too long .
The fear is that BJP -RSS will be tempted to fall back upon its proven vote gathering skill – creating communal riot

cont–
India has other divides along language,caste,geographical lines. Israel can be seen as enemy of Pakistan and Arab and be accepted as automatic friend of Indian Hindus . But this is a childish view and Israel will prove it
leaving a bitter anti-Semite taste in Indian minds.

energy encirclement is not childish game but a deadly game of survival.one that india and several other large asian countries are playing .oil producing countries like qatar,uae,bahrain and saudi arabia are only 1500 km away straight as the black crow flies.

Gee, I wonder why Israel finds itself the target of “terrorist” attacks, it is not as if they are brutal occupiers, stealing lands, demolishing homes, building illegal settlements defying international laws, sends precision bombs into civilian homes, drops cluster bombs in civilian areas, uses white phosphorous in civilian areas, kills unarmed civilians by their apartheid fences, blockades helpless civilians, kidnaps little children in the night, and have over 700 of them, abused, and languishing in their dungeons without legal representation, and so many other crimes, all documented by international and Israeli human rights bodies. Yeah it should make anyone wonder why there is so much hostility around this beacon of shining light.

Shuki, you sounded very much like your terrorist Prime Minister’s Nazi guest, John Vorster at the time when ironically he was given a tour of the Holocaust Memorial. He used just about the same words as you in describing apartheid Israel and apartheid South Africa being among hostile neighbours, only this time, the dark ones include people of India. It was birds of a feather back then and it’s birds of a feather now with the neo-Nazi in India.

From the Guardian in 2006:

“… Yitzhak Rabin, hailed the South African premier as a force for freedom and made no mention of Vorster’s past as he toured the Jerusalem memorial to the six million Jews murdered by the Nazis. At a state banquet, Rabin toasted “the ideals shared by Israel and South Africa: the hopes for justice and peaceful coexistence”. Both countries, he said, faced “foreign-inspired instability and recklessness”.

Vorster, whose army was then overrunning Angola, told his hosts that South Africa and Israel were victims of the enemies of western civilisation. A few months later, the South African government’s yearbook characterised the two countries as confronting a single problem: “Israel and South Africa have one thing above all else in common: they are both situated in a predominantly hostile world inhabited by dark peoples.”

Another major event was the first-ever joint Capitol Hill forum that was held on July 16, between the US Indian Political Action Committee, the American Jewish Committee, and AIPAC. The event featured nearly a dozen Congress members from across the US, including Republican Tom Lantos (D-CA) and Republican Gary Ackerman (D-NY). Tom Lantos summarized the binding issue of the evening thus, “We are drawn together by mindless, vicious, fanatic, Islamic terrorism.” Congressman Ackerman said that Israel was “surrounded by 120 million Muslims” while “India has 120 millions Muslims [within]”.

Subsequently, visiting Israeli special envoy David Ivry told New Delhi that Israel will assist India in its battle against terrorism. Ivry met with External Affairs Minister Yashwant Sinha, Advani and Mishra. Ivry said that a recent speech by Mishra in Washington implied that India, the US and Israel should cooperate in fighting terrorism. “The US can be the leader and we [Israel and India] can contribute as much as we can,” he said. He added that sharing of intelligence was very important. But that is not all. The traders’ bonding has also become pretty tight.

The Indian lobby that promotes a strong India-Israel business linkage also finds it necessary to justify why Israel should be brought closer. They point out the commonalities that hang these two countries together – India and Israel are both democracies and have survived in a sea of hostility, surrounded by implacable adversaries and a heavily militarized security environment. Both nations have fought wars in nearly every decade of their existence. No other two countries in the world have suffered so much at the hands of state-sponsored Islamic jihadi terrorism as India and Israel,

Well I am not the Edward Said Chair at the American University of Beirut but anyone paying attention can see that ‘nationalism’ is on the rise around the world.
In some countries it is being brought on by resistence to immigration hordes and in others, like some in the EU ,by disappointment with ‘global economics’ and in others like the Ukraine by age old national identities and corruption.
India, whose growth and rise is due almost entirely to foreign companies investments and locations there for cheap wages–and to Isr using AIPAC to secure US trade favors for it, may however be getting to big for its britches–just as Isr has—the rising nationalism in countries is going to affect all other countries—fasten your seat belt boys its going to be a bumpy ride for the world.
If the US goes nationalist and more isolationist in our next election then there’s going to a big big shakeup.

ECRU- “Looking from this side of the Atlantic – has the US ever NOT been nationalistic – to the point of jingoism?”

From the perspective of 21st century globalization, the term “nationalistic” has somewhat debatable meaning. Surely, all of the “free trade” agreements cannot be described as “nationalistic.” Also, the intentional hollowing out of the US infrastructure in favor of globalized production controlled via a globalized financial system surely does not represent traditional nationalism. Yet, within this emerging matrix of globalized control, there is a definite insistence upon an American preponderance of control in which potential rivals are preemptively subdued or destroyed. It is not classical nationalism, but what to call it? A Western-based (primarily US) globalized system of elite control based upon trade interdependencies tied together by the global financial system with some corporations having a national character, others not. Neo-feudalism?

OK fair enough, I was coming at it more from a historic, maybe even Latin American viewpoint but yes I agree – neo-feudalism certainly seems to be the direction of travel, with corporations replacing the state in fact but hiding behind the old national identity to help lull the masses with appeals to base “nationalism.” Where’s there a Wat Tyler when we need one? *

* For those unfamiliar – Wat Tyler led the Peasant’s Revolt of 1381 in England.

I suspect that we are talking about the same thing, differences primarily semantic, however, this is such an important topic that I feel the need to provide additional clarification. First of all, the corporations are not replacing the state per se. In traditional feudalism, the King represented the state, the Feudal Lords represented smaller spheres of power and control. In neo-feudalism, the corporations are not analogous to states, but to smaller, more discreet spheres of influence, demarcated not by territorial boundaries but by functional expertise and market share. The ongoing elimination of public services combined with the privatization of public entities means that the citizenry will have few, if any, rights except those granted by the private corporations to those who provide them with profitable service. Even more than now, governments will manage the population in such a way as to facilitate the achievement of private business objectives, government officials interchangeable. An elaborate network of planned interdependencies will be controlled by the financial system, influenced by a rough consensus among the elites. Powerful states will remain to provide the necessary levels of coercion to ensure control when market mechanisms no longer suffice.

India getting “too big for its britches” is an overly rich statement with the stench od bigotry as well. With over a billion human beings having to be sustained and a landmass almost continental in size the comment is absurd. And crediting Israel as the secondary reason for Indias growth rather then the changes made by Indians themselves is patronizing and small minded. You suffer from the disease of too much Israel in your brain which clouds your path to reason and logic.

The BJP has many resemblances to the American Tea Party movement. It is xenophobic (especially disliking Muslims). It is imbued by religious fundamentalism and often anti-science. It is hawkish in foreign policy. It is an advocate for the business classes and critical of government programs.
…
Many outsiders are celebrating the BJP victory because they assume that it will lead to better trade and economic relations between India and e.g. the US. They don’t seem to realize that India has just elected the equivalent of a Sarah Palin or Ted Cruz.

I see, and Palestinians disliking Jews isn’t xenophobic? Sorry, but you’ve got to face up to facts that Islam has a colonial history of its own, and realize the consequences of that. The word “Hindu” was itself coined by Muslims. It was Muslims, both trading and invading, who came up with the word “Hindu” and slapped it onto the myriad ethnic groups inhabiting India. It’s no different than how Colombus slapped the label “Indians” onto the various Native American tribes of North America. Muslims in India aren’t a “minority” – they’re actually the largest ethnic group in a sea of smaller ethnic groups. They’re basically a self-declared “minority”, in contrast to actual reality.

“It was Muslims, both trading and invading, who came up with the word “Hindu” and slapped it onto the myriad ethnic groups inhabiting India.” but..always worth checking wiki, just in case, as in this case.

“The word Hindu is derived (through Persian) from the Sanskrit word Sindhu, the historic local name for the Indus River in the northwestern part of the Indian subcontinent (modern day Pakistan and Northern India).[2][a] According to Gavin Flood, “The actual term Hindu first occurs as a Persian geographical term for the people who lived beyond the river Indus (Sanskrit: Sindhu)”.[2] The term Hindu then was a geographical term and did not refer to a religion.[b]

The term Hindu was later used occasionally in some Sanskrit texts such as the later Rajataranginis of Kashmir (Hinduka, c. 1450) and some 16th- to 18th-century Bengali Gaudiya Vaishnava texts including Chaitanya Charitamrita and Chaitanya Bhagavata. It was usually used to contrast Hindus with Yavanas or Mlecchas.[6] It was only towards the end of the 18th century that European merchants and colonists began to refer to the followers of Indian religions collectively as Hindus. The term Hinduism was introduced into the English language in the 19th century to denote the religious, philosophical, and cultural traditions native to India.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu

Muslims aren’t an ethnic group. Neither are Hindus. They are both religious groupings. Most Indian Muslims belong to indigenous Indian ethnic groups, with a small genetic inflow from Persia and Central Asia, and an even smaller inflow from the Arabian Peninsula.

No. It’s a natural reaction to being oppressed and ethnically cleansed by Jews. Would you say Indian resistance to British rule and domination was “xenophobic?”

It was Muslims, both trading and invading, who came up with the word “Hindu” and slapped it onto the myriad ethnic groups inhabiting India. It’s no different than how Colombus slapped the label “Indians” onto the various Native American tribes of North America.

And British is in origin a Latin term for the various groups of the island of Britain. Russian is a term derived from Norse conquerors of the area now know as Ukraine. Egyptian is from Greek. So we should all be offended that our various names aren’t “pure” of outside influence? Don’t be so silly.

Muslims in India aren’t a “minority” – they’re actually the largest ethnic group in a sea of smaller ethnic groups

So the majority of India is Muslim? They may well be the largest minority group but that doesn’t mean they’re not a minority. And it’s not an ethnicity – it’s a religion.

Muslims can’t be an ethnic group as Muslim is not an ethnicity. Do you know the difference between ethnicity and religion? I know zionists don’t for obvious reasons but you don’t have the same cultural blinders

One will like to believe that the narrative should change after 11 yrs of marathon fight against Islamic terrorism . But like NSA , Israel continues to use the terrorism threat now against Asian countries -India, Phillipnes,Burma, China – to establish commercial and military sales
From counterpunch.com
“For the first time, in 2014, Israeli exports with Asia will exceed trade with the US,

While opening more trade attaché offices in Asia, the Israeli Ministry of the Economy has closed a number of European trade offices

“Today we have five offices in China, three in India, and we have added attaché in Vietnam and an office in Manila,” he
“‘Pivot to Asia’ is a term that might be applied to Israel,” Roger Cohen wrote in The New York Times on April 24, citing a boom in its trade with China to more than $8 billion in 2013. Israel’s military and technological cooperation with China had once created a crisis in the U.S. – Israeli relations.

Cohen noted that while the US and Europe continue to “huff and puff” about the illegal Israeli colonial settlements in the occupied Palestinian West Bank “Asia does business. …

Writing in Forbes on May 14 last year, professor at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver, Jonathan Adelman, and the acting executive director for Scholars for Peace in the Middle East (SPME), Asaf Romirowsky, had a controversial explanation of Israel’s breakthrough in Asia:

Historically, “Asia largely lacks the anti-Semitism that was so prominent in Europe” and “Israel was like most Asian states … a new state born after World War II after a struggle with a Western colonial power, in this case Great Britain,” they said.

“Geographically, Israel is in West Asia, only four hours by air from India and 11 hours by air from China.

“Economically, Israel’s rapid transition from Third World power to First World ‘start-up nation’ echoes the great transformation underway in such Asian countries as India, China and the Four Tigers.

“Scientifically, Israel has emerged as a high-tech superpower, thereby very attractive to Asian high tech powers.

“Militarily, the Israeli military, a world leader in anti-missile technology (Iron Dome) … is attractive to Asian countries developing their own militaries.

“Politically, the growing threat of Islamism draws many of Asian countries towards a country that is in the forefront of fighting this threat.”

In intelligence matters, Israeli “Mossad, with its strong human intelligence capabilities, is attractive for helping these countries overcome foreign threats.”

Adelman and Romirowsky sound like labouring to produce an academic commercial to “sell” Israel to Asia.

Ironically both of them had nothing to say about Israel being promoted mainly by its US strategic sponsor as “the only democracy in the Middle East.”

Historically Israel was not born after a struggle with the colonial power of Great Britain but was imposed by this colonial power by force on the region and born after military ongoing ethnic cleansing of the native Arab Palestinians of the land.

Politically, the Israeli logistical support of the most extreme among the Islamist insurgents who are fighting against the government of Syria doesn’t vindicate that Israel is “in the forefront of fighting”

I’d like to say this election result comes as a surprise but ever since the destruction of the Babri Mosque in 1992, which is when I first really started paying attention, and the rise since then of Hindu Nationalism, it’s been pretty obvious what the general direction of Indian politics was. And it’s been equally obvious that the destruction of the mosque provides a model for what Israeli Jews want to do to the Dome on the Rock. Ancient temple not used for centuries then a Muslim comes along and builds a mosque on the site and then, oh no, now we want our “holy” site back and are willing to do anything to get it. Because you Muslims don’t belong here anyway.

The BJP and Israel are a perfect fit – much as were Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.

The arguments by Cohen and other above show that emotion ,memory,obligations,and fellow feeling could be a used,misplaced,and distorted by Zionist in explaining the shift of the western attitude to Israel and in embarking on 180 degree changes by itself.

Not that long ago Australia was reminded of the dark side of the presence of yellow races in its midst by Israrl. Not a day goes by Israel reminds the west and self how it is protecting US interest and how it shares the values of the west despite being in the middle of a jungle like a villa.
Israel also promised to be Eastern Belgium against marauding hordes of East and promised to maintain the oxygen tube open for the British empire so that it continued to exhale fire on Indian subcontinent.

In a way , it should give hope to the murderous Al Quida. They also could do business with Israel with quid pro quo – Israel exploiting the neighboring lands and Islamist exerting ruinous regressive destructive influences on the Muslim under its feet along with merciless killings of non Wahabi and non Muslims

oh, thanks. in this instance i agree that salute has been used repeatedly throughout the ages and is not confined to an association with hitler. i recall when palestinians got accused of using it not that long ago. i googled the salute and realized how common it really was.

The current atmosphere in India has led to the withdrawal and destruction (in February I think) of copies of a book by an experienced scholar, Wendy Doniger, who questions the prevalent Hindu view of the history of Hinduism, amid many accusation of falsehood and incompetence. I’ve only just come across a protest by Doniger about this and am absolutely lacking in any ability even to hint at an informed judgement on her views – but this is really another version of book-burning and we know where that leads.

the Israeli shift to east Asia, China and Russia has been predicted for years and it is no surprise that the plans are coming to fruition. The totally hysterical claims by MW posters about the Hindu party being sympathetic towards ‘nazis’ is more then a joke in terms of todays political landscape. There is very little if any ‘hard-wired’ Jew-hatred in India or Asia as compared to the kind of Jew-hatred common to Europe and Russia. Like anywhere-including Israel and India-there are pockets of bigotry but this is completely insignificant in terms of their natural inclination towards friendly coöperation. And lastly-Israel is not a naturally ‘Muslim-hating’ nation as almost all polling statistics have shown. India’s Muslims are not an obstacle to Indo-Israeli relations unless India;s Muslims choose to make it so.

Sure there is no animosity against Jews in India. Why shall be any different?
Hindus lands were not confiscated ,houses destroyed ,Hindus were not expelled,Hindus were not put behind barbed wire,Hindus were not put on diet Hindus were not showered with deleted uranium, Hindus were not paraded in Hollywood as ignorant,primitive,clever,unethical,and not so moral, Hindus were not attacked by US for the sake of Israel This is why.
Hindus were not manipulated by Chaim Weizman, or Ben Guiron, or Rothchild,or attacked in letter bomb or in King David hotel, or by the Hindu PM was influenced by Murdoch or by the entity like Jeiwsh Friend of Labor , or was not asked to toe the line on Israel by any Levy or Sharon. Indian Pasport was not used to kill Palestine leaders. Its FM was not called Chamberlain as Jack Straw was denounced for engaging to Iran.
May be that’s why.

Debate
I forgot to add the pressure and threat Truman faced, deception Kennedy suffered,lies Johnson had to swallow , Lavon and USS liberty America had to endure, planes Kissinger and Nixon had to fly over blackmail, and Bush 1had to scream at the reality of American impotence,the pressure Clinton felt to attack and increase sanction on Libya,Syria,Iraq,and Iran.
Yes then came the spying activities before ,after and around 911, May be that’s why Hindus are not anti-Semite and why we hear that. American policy is ‘ not good for Jews” from Foxman .
Before Iraq blood dried America have started getting pelted with fiery brimstones from same folks who instigated Iraq war, not for starting ears against Libya,Iran,and Syria.
May be that’s why Hindus are not let alone any responsibilities to fork out billions and billions every year.

you seem to be having some sort of mental breakdown. your little hysterical ‘synopsis’ of negativism and bigotry seems to suggest you blame Israel for every bad thing that has happened in the world since its creation and then ypu wonder why anyone would suggest you have a problem with Jews.
You might want to try calming yourself before you blow a gourd. I feel sorry for you that the entire world is not as consumed with hatred for Israel as you and your small clique of compatriots are.

“your little hysterical ‘synopsis’ of negativism and bigotry seems to suggest you blame Israel for every bad thing that has happened in the world since its creation”

We often hear this knee jerk comment from those who support Israel’s illegal activities in other folks territory, when the complaints have been about those things Israel has been shown to be involved in or responsible for. It’s the type of over the top comment common to bullies and domestic abusers

“and then ypu wonder why anyone would suggest you have a problem with Jews”

1st “Israel” then suddenly “Jews”, another conflating switch commonly used by abusers

“You might want to try calming yourself before you blow a gourd.”

Oooops there’s another.

“I feel sorry for you that the entire world is not as consumed with hatred for Israel as you and your small clique of compatriots are”

And another…. Israel is not Israeli Government policies. Everyone should hate Governments who deliberately ignore International Law. Who encourage their citizens to break International Law. Who illegally sell their citizens land in territory that does not yet belong to the state.

Perhaps you missed this, but seems the majority of the entire world DOES dislike Israel…in fact it keeps good company with North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

“BBC poll: Israel among world’s least popular nations
The annual BBC World Service poll finds Germany most popular; only countries less popular than Israel are North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

The world’s opinion of Israel has not improved in the last year: According to BBC World Service’s annual poll, Israel is one of the least popular countries in the world; the only states less popular are North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

The survey, conducted among 26,000 people in 25 countries, found Germany to be the most popular country. 59 percent of respondents, who were asked to rate 16 countries according to how positively they impact the world, placed Germany at the top.

Only 21 percent of participants had a positive view on Israel, while 52 percent viewed the country unfavorably. Iran, in comparison, won the favorable opinion of 15 percent of those who answered the survey, while 59 percent viewed it unfavorably.

In this year’s poll, Germany took the place of Japan, which was downgraded to fourth place. Canada was ranked second, followed by Britain.”

Sorry to burst your bubble. It seems Israel has been in that disliked category for a few years now. Now stay calm and don’t go and blow that gourd. :))

>> I feel sorry for you that the entire world is not as consumed with hatred for Israel as you and your small clique of compatriots are.

I feel sorry for people who are consumed with defending, justifying and even advocating for injustice and immorality simply because Jews are the ones being unjust and immoral. It must be exhausting to be so fervently hypocritical.

kay an talkc: working yourselves into a frnzy trying to prove how ‘hated’ Israel is while everyonbe from the largest to smallest nations in the world (outsoide the few Arab states that observe a physical boycott-though they go through back channels often) are clamouring for Israeli technical, military, medical and agro advancements that help there nations and people live better lives. And of course Israel does all this as part of some insidious ‘plot’ you keep imagining and forever ‘linking’ to (in you on sphere of circular links). It almost the very definition of obsessive ‘hatred’

But what is amusing is not that its surprising you would jump all over an avowed Zionist, such as myself but that the posters that are Indian, trying to explain how they see their own election-decidedly NOT in terms of any vast Zionist conspiracy but in terms of their own lives ar subject on mw to the full ‘nazi/zionist/bigoted/muslim-hating’ treatment that seems hardwired to spew forth.
And the above ‘gaul and umbrage’ taken that a poster ‘threatened’ this ultra-liberal view with “anger’ was pretty ironic considering the 100s of threats I have read on mw concerning that Zionists ‘just wait and see whats coming down the road for them’.

While the world grows smaller in many aspects it would behoove those with regional conflicts to take note that what has been obsessively followed in the US and EU press for decades is nothing more then a small distraction for humans concerned with myriad problems of survival in other far flung area of Earth and the Palestinian problem-though drawing sympathy for the most part-will not draw on the kind of bleeding heart support smothered in deep disgust and hatred for all-things-Israel/Zionist
that eminates from the corners of western marxist/socialist/far-left disappointments of the so-called ‘civil society’ and human-rights groups that mostly are nothing close to civil or concerned with human rights in general-only specific.

Can’t wait until Israel rolls out its next 5-year plan to expand ties with Latin nations in SA and CA. Of course be competing with networks set up by Iran through Hezbollah but there is evidently much room for not only competition but coöperation.

Yeah, so us Gujaratis are fascist, conservative, religious. There is no basis in history to compare Indians to Hitler, etc. We resent the notion that our holy symbol swastik represented a dark period in human history, just because some tyrant decided to steal it.

This is a new beginning. Nearly 10% of the world voted in democratic excercise that was free, fair, observed, and non-violent. Hindu society has spawned great philosophical and spiritual endeavors such as buddhism and yoga. We have much to offer the world, as does the Jewish world. Ancient societies collaborating – what a refreshing idea!

niraj, I wonder if you are a hasbarist. There is ample proof that Modi and his corporate masters have been paying people to peddle his propaganda. No one is comparing Indians to Hitlers, stop diverting and presenting strawman arguments.

“Hindu society has spawned great philosophical and spiritual endeavors such as buddhism and yoga.”

What’s your point? We are talking about Modi.

“We have much to offer the world, as does the Jewish world. Ancient societies collaborating – what a refreshing idea!

“Ancient societies” is a perfect form of patronization either used by imperial masters or (always insecure) ethnic nationalists.

“Hindu society has spawned great philosophical and spiritual endeavors such as buddhism and yoga. ”

And grammar! As far as I am concerned, Panini is as great a figure as Shankara.

But so what? That would still be true if Congress won the election and Israel did not exist.

“We have much to offer the world, as does the Jewish world. ”

India has a lot to offer. The world isn’t Jewish yet, and from my perspective it doesn’t seem that Jewish tradition has much to offer. A few interesting Talmudic argument forms, but what else? (Hostage wil probably give me a sharp answer. He knows that stuff, along with much more.)

“Ancient societies collaborating – what a refreshing idea!”

Israel isn’t ancient, and India is trying to modernise as much as it can.

On Fareed Zakaria, it was mentioned that the US has cold shouldered Modi for years, because of his involvement, or appearance of being indifferent, to the attacks of ethnic minorities, their Mosques, and property, in which many Muslims died, while he chief minister. He was also refused a visa to enter the US, by many administrations. Isn’t it strange, that our only “ally” in the ME, fully supports this man, and is eagerly courting him? Having infested our nation with zionists, controlling our leaders, media and think tanks, perhaps the serpent is slithering into Asian nations, where it will be easier to “control” them.
They have even sent their hasbara types to defend Modi, and attack all Muslims, in some websites, some pretending to be Indians. Tel Aviv is once again scheming, and Asian nations beware.

I agree about the Hindu right-wingers. No evidence of course, just dealing with hasbara types on various websites, including Huffingtonpost, for years, which makes me very familiar with the pattern, language, and how they swarm like locusts into such articles. At one time these minions pretended to be Americans, but they seem to expose themselves in many ways, by how they write.

or:
Balance between India:China, India:Iran(naval) And while some of the die-hard MW commentators may be salivating at the prospects a of a shifting alliance between Israel and the US [while ironically-at the same time-Zionist will likely be accused of extreme disloyalty, ingratitude, betrayal, etc.]

The fact remains that in Israel there is a very strong desire to stay with what 98% of israel;is consider there best and most loyal friend and the nation that shares the most values with its own (or vise-versa). But with an administration in place with 3-more years that seems headed for appeasement of Iran against the wishes of most of its gulf region allies-added to the recent couched threats by Kerry and Obama that “bad things will happen if…..” (which-in case nobody remembers has been a constant refrain by everyone high and low for going on 66+ years) it can come as no surprise that Israel would FINALLY unhitch some of its lines to the US FP model.
While there is -imo-about a 50/50 chance that Iran-no matter what deal it strikes would honour it and there is even less of a chance that once nuclear Iran will NOT use the potential for regional power plays setting of g-d knows what response in the sunni/shi’a divide. That said-the threat of what seems like an inevitable nuke Iran will naturally start a massive re-aligning of regional policy and ot would only make sense that it would be away from US and EU goals.

I try to look down the road to see what wisdom Obama is trying to figure out about Iranian appeasement. Russian appeasement. And a general pull-back in respnse to the Clinton-Bush years. There is the obvious: Russia is too prickly and strategically placed where antagonizing bare-chest Vlad risks far to much danger and pain. And that the Iranian people are no threat to any other nation and of course should have nuclear power but have mullahs that sit on billions and are perhaps the world best
‘negotiators’ in that nothing they negotiate can be counted on. Israel-not being a natural, or strategic Persian enemy-the bomb is probably mostly bluster except for the psy-op it has with Israels war with the proxy Hezbollah.
Take away any feelings one has for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and it is hard to deny that Israel branching out towards China and India,(russia, and Latin America and Canada too) only makes sense politically. And the US military/industrial complex makes too much damn money on the bonds it issues Israel for there to be any real worry Israel wont remain a staunch US ally. And as for the recent ‘spy scandal”? Nothing but anti-Israel clap-trap by a known anti-Israel ex-CIA along with a still ‘mysterious’ congressional aide. uh-huh.
As if the industrial spying France and China committed gaining them stealth and drone specs where not destructive. Or the US own failing dropping a drone into Iran? Or having Chinese ex-pats who worked in sensitive military jobs re-patriating after having worked on the most secretive of US projects. The ‘big’ expose on those “obnoxious” and “can’t be humiliated” Jews was nothing more then a dying(or dead) former news rags last hurrah by scandalizing with a race/Jew/Israel baiting piece that reflects the views of only a few within the dept.

I look forward to the day when an Israeli leader who enjos the kind of stability Netanyahu has enjoyed will advocate a policy of shrinking the amount a aide (mostly in bonds-though Israel-haters love to lie and say its some kind of ‘welfare’ instead of loans. As many in the US would jump up,and oppose this as would certain Israeli hawks) But the fact remains that Israel could easily survive with a massive reduction in US aide.

Add India into this fold and it could easily be a win-win as far as the US is concerned.
with no intractable conflict (xcpt Kashmir-which is definitely NOT an example Palestinians would want to have brought up with tis 3-state solution] that-no matter how ‘political’ always erupts into a religious [muslim/jew/christian] conflagration.

Anyway-its always interesting to see how well MW’sers can contain themselves whenever Israel branches out further into the world body. Anything short of a tight containment and lashing to anyone but the US upsets the status quo and the standard anti-Zionist memes don’t hold much water. (I had to laugh at one of the crowd above kay, or was it? amerc-?- SUDDENLY citing the evidence of how ‘poor poor’ Harry Truman (yes-the Harry that pressed the button on the bomb!) was bullied! -yes absolutely ‘terrified’ of defying the Zionist fighting for partition as if the publication of John Judis book splayed all over MW pages was just a mere coincidence. News flash! Judis’ book will not be a seminal tome)

So-Israel and India -both somewhat born from the same post ww2 world re-alignment are continuing on trajectories not bound by any other script except that which their own majorities have voted. That the world can not be continually held back by one peoples-above all others (links? there is only one group of people on earth who have been given perpetual and retroactive refugee status and I am certain that there are serval dozens of other true and current refugees that would be appreciative of official UN refugee status-eternal or just temporary) quest to have their own state without a treaty that will guarantee the end of the conflict absolutely. It matters not what lands are ceded or switched but only that a mechanism is in place that whatever the treaty accomplishes at its outset is the final and terminal negotiation for an end to the conflict. I imagine Indians, Kasmiri’s and Pakistanis want no less for themselves too but

Don’t forget that British Palestine and British Hindustan were partitioned at about the same time, 1947/1948. In both cases it ultimately served British imperial interests.
Gandhi and others warned against partition; he’d spent time in British built jails in India, just as Palestinians today spend time in British built jails.

Gandhi even offered to make Jinna, the Pakistani/Moslem leader, president of a united Hindustan, obviating the need for the creation of a separate Bangladesh or Pakistan.

In both former British colonies, in the middle east and south asia, Britain’s partitions have been total disasters.

Sandra Samuel (born c. 1964) is an Indian nanny who saved the life of two-year-old Moshe Holtzberg during the November 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks. The government of Israel is considering granting Samuel the title Righteous among the Nations.[1][2]Samuel saved when Nariman House was attacked during the November 2008 Mumbai attacks. Both of Moshe’s parents were killed in the attack. Samuel is currently helping to care for the boy in Israel

What I dislike about this “Righteous among the Nations” thing is it implies very strongly that the other “Nations” are inherently un-righteous and that these people are anomalies. Another example of the Jewish Supremacism at the heart of Israel and Zionism.

Well, That is truly an inspiring story and all good fortune be upon S.Samuel but hopefully-anyone-in any country or ‘land’ would do the same thing. I am sure there are many Palestinians who would save a Jewish Israeli child from harms way just as an Israeli would save a Palestinian child-as they do in the hospitals regularly. Unfortunately-it is the cases where children are not ‘saved’ or ‘helped’ by nearby adults-by either shielding them from harms way when ‘politics’ takes center stage and the ‘children’ are used as political pawns.

In Israel and the West Bank-both boulders smashed on top of passing cars, slingshotted rocks or rubber bullets fired from Israeli youths on their IDF duty do NOT discriminate when they hit their target and in those cases-it is hard to argue that children are not being ‘targeted’ though ALL sides deny that is the case

Indian/Israeli trade appears to be increasing, which is a process not likely to be affected one way or the other by this election result; commercial activity doesn’t come under the UN and it is Israel’s blatant defiance of UN resolutions that will really unite people in active impatience, while Palestine is the most obvious focus there are others including the nuclear business where some believe Israel has already employed a small such device against Syria http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/25/did-syria-sink-an-israeli-submarine/. Conspiracy theory? Heaven knows, but there it is out there. Nations are inanimate, they are like containers, what matters is what is inside and I cannot imagine Indian citizens of any religious persuasion wishing to resist broad condemnation of any nation defying international law.

PS, Much of the 8 billion in trade derives, I imagine, from the infelicitous application of science, much better applied, many may think, to the aid of Mankind, and the custodianship of our ever more fragile environment.

“… with Israeli tourism transforming places such as Dharamsala and Khajuraho, where Hebrew signs are now legion and shopkeepers have learned enough Hebrew to converse with their guests (who are often men and women recently off duty from their terrible jobs at checkpoints – ” (Vijay Prashad)

Not so from the stuff I’ve been reading about Israeli tourism in India. Israeli tourism is already a dirty word in Turkey where Israelis on cheapie 1 week vacations in Turkey are known to thrash the hotels where they stay causing damage far in excess of the room fees. Since the Mavi Marmara, Israelis stopped going to Turkey and are looking for other tourist destinations to wreck.

Getting back to India, Israelis (as well as Russians) are unwelcome in Goa because of their drug abuse. They have laws banning Hebrew and Russian signage by hotel keepers:

A couple of years back, Haaretz had a piece about the bad conduct of Israel tourists in India, something about giving worldwide Jews a bad press:

“… The hotel manager then went on to list some pathetic incidents with young Israelis who were either high on drugs, or had cheated the hotel manager out of some money.

Thousands of Israelis travel abroad every year. Some go after their army service, while others travel later on in life. The culture of travel is one to be respected as an important eye-opening experience for many.

In terms of sheer quantity, the number of Israelis found traveling abroad does not necessary exceed that of larger countries, like the France or the United Kingdom. Why then, do Israeli travelers continuously show up in “worst traveler” contests?…”

NEW DELHI: Three Israeli diplomats allegedly assaulted an immigration officer at IGI airport on Saturday because he was taking a long time to clear passengers.

One of the diplomats is alleged to have slapped the official while his two colleagues roughed him up. The three, believed to be junior-level officials, were charged with assault and questioned by the IGI police. They couldn’t be arrested because of diplomatic immunity, police said.

The young diplomats were at the immigration counter, waiting to travel to Kathmandu. IGI officials said there was a rush and the diplomats came up to the counter of Somveer and asked him to hurry up.

The Israelis reportedly got upset when immigration officers asked them to wait. Soon an altercation broke out and the trio accused Somveer of delaying them. As heated words were being exchanged, the diplomats turned violent and beat up Somveer, police said…”

I remember this incident reported in many websites. Once again Israeli officials showed their usual arrogance, and violence, the ugly characteristics they show time and time again. They have been slithering into Asian countries, and we can imagine what devious plans they must have, including spying and trying to control their leaders.

OMG. You want to hear stories about “worst travellers”? Ask some NYC hostesses at nicer restaurants and bars how ‘Arabs’ are perceived. You want to go down the slippery slope of bad-mouthing Israeli tourists (by siting some sources from articles devoted to IDF recruits in the late teens/early 20s going off the India on some ‘spiritual’ and drug infused decompression as if that is some kind of ‘new’ thing.
Ever heard about all the US an Euro-trash hippies in the late60s/70s taking off for Morocco, Afghanistan, India and South Asia, etc for ‘spiritual’ enlightenment (ahem-Hash, horse, and hemp?) Its like judging all US travellers based on stats from spring break in Miami Beach or Cancun. Not bigotry there huh?
And wander over to places where ‘real’ israelis like to travel like Kenya and other African nations where they are well liked and even loved since these Israelis have seen fit to bring their investment money down and invest in the infrastructure and improvement of many citizens lives. Say what you will about the ‘tourism’ industry-based on hedonism, lifestyle and money but Israel is absolutely no different then any other nation with a middle class willing to explore parts of the earth other then there own. Its very sad if the millions of Palestinians with official UN ‘refugee’ status can not get permission to travel from there host Arab nations but then fighting Israel seems a roundabout way of winning that battle.

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