Post by Kate on Nov 12, 2008 17:16:01 GMT -5

We have a 2 year old boer/kiko cross doe who had scours in October from which it took a long time to recover. She is down to seventy pounds, which is a loss of about half her weight. Based on earlier advice we have been giving her senior equine feed and a children's chewable vitamin. She has free choice hay as well which she is eating.

She is avoiding the rest of the herd and we finally put her in a quarantine pen away from them. With the arrival of freezing temperatures we also put a heat lamp in one corner of her stall.

She is VERY weak, and stumbles and falls in the short walk from the stall to the waterer.

If anyone can tell us what we should do for her, we are getting a little desperate for help. She's definately one of our better does, we would really like to save her if we can. And I guess at this point we're wondering at what point we're simply torturing her and should let her go.

Post by silverthorn on Nov 12, 2008 18:20:38 GMT -5

What vitamin are you giving her?

Give her a hefty dose of injectable B-complex and A&D, and make that routine. I had a goat that lost a ton of weight, and this is what I did to put it back on.

Alfalfa pellets. Lots of alfalfa pellets, and daily drenchings with Power Punch. I gave her Posture-D and vitamin C tablets, and that worked enormously. Most goats are somewhat calcium deficient by default, but sickness and or pregnancy only excaserbates it. Basically, I gave Power Punch and any major vitamins that weren't in, such as E, C, and calcium. Equine feed does not have enough protein in it, not even the senior stuff, which usually has 12-14%. Goats need a ton of protein, and especially when you're trying to put weight on them. Alfalfa pellets have 17% protein and good goat feeds have 16-18%.

Also give her Probios to get her rumen working well.

How are her eyelids? How long ago was she wormed, and what did you use?

My doe took five months to put on 15-20 pounds. She was about the condition that your doe is now. Unless there is another underlying problem, it's just going to take a long time. Even if you don't give the Power Punch (it can get messy :P) then give a good 18% protein goat feed, alfalfa pellets in mass quantity, vitamin C, Posture-D (better then the calcium-vit D tablets), and vitamin B-complex.

My doe was getting to where she didn't want to stand or move around, and she was starting to reject her food. If you're in a place that gets really cold at night, you might want to get one of those goat blankets too.

Post by silverthorn on Nov 12, 2008 18:58:09 GMT -5

The irritating thing about goats is that vitamins and minerals fly through them like nobody's business. We can assume by her continued decline that the children vitamins are not sufficient. To get my doe back into shape, this is the vitamin regiment I had to do. Daily.

I am 98% sure that two of your children multivitamins do not have that much in it. It may contain a lot of different vitamins and minerals, but children's supplements are not designed to have a great deal of them. Continue to give the multivitamins, but give her increased doses of B-complex, calcium, and vitamin C. Give her 4-5 cups of alfalfa pellets a day.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but your goat is incredibily vitamin/mineral deficient, and unless you give her 2-3x the average doses for a healthy goat, she's going to die. And it'll be because you weren't willing to stuff her with vitamins and protein. She's going into ketosis. Unless you break the chain, her body is going to continue taking energy from its own fat reserves, and it will kill her. I know from personal experience. To break ketosis and start recovery, you need MASSIVE amounts of protein and vitamins. She isn't getting it. You asked for help. I'm giving it.

Post by Brandywine on Nov 12, 2008 21:42:08 GMT -5

What minerals is she on? Is she still scoured? How is her appetite? What type of hay are you feeding? She is a young doe and probably not beyond help, have had several that have pulled through, but you must get aggressive with the corrrect vit and minerals. Careful with the vit A&D, there are different strengths of it. I would absolutely get her on some, just be sure of the dose your bottle calls for. Bose is another must have for her. Calcium, I disagree with, if she needs calcium something else is missing to cause the calcium not to be absorbed. Vit D and Magnesium are two things that pop up first. Is this doe bred? As much as I SWEAR by vit C be careful if she is still scouring off and on. It will just make it worse.

Post by Kate on Nov 12, 2008 21:53:52 GMT -5

She's on purina goat mineral, still scoury, will eat but isn't exactly rushing over to the new hay. We feed a grass alfalfa mix hay. She was supposed to be bred, as of about two months ago, but she certainly doesn't look like it is possible now at all.

Donnie: we called the vet after I posted this and got some cocci medication set up for her. We pick it up tomorrow morning.

We used ivermectin, and then sowlax after that. We have also used safeguard and other equine brand names in the past with her, but we rotate them as needed.

Post by Donnie on Nov 12, 2008 22:33:45 GMT -5

If you can get a fecal done , I would treat for cocci and e-coli I treat for both when a goat gets the trots, some will say it is wrong but it works for me. I give meds in the A.M and drench with yougart in the P.M , the trots can also be due to worms. a fecal will tell what you are dealing with. but when a goat gets sick worms can take over quickly , even if you wormed her I have had one doe it took three worming treatments every 5 days to get them under controll. I am not saying she has worms just putting that out there. A fecal will tell .

Post by silverthorn on Nov 12, 2008 23:40:12 GMT -5

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was throwing your advice out. I didn't mean anything that way, was just answering your questions.

We used ivermectin, and then sowlax after that. We have also used safeguard and other equine brand names in the past with her, but we rotate them as needed.

I apologize also. I was just being snippy and got rude for no reason. My apologies. ^_^

Have you tried Ivomec PLUS? Is the condition of her skin and coat bad? Have you had a lot of rain recently? She might have liver fluke. Only I-PLUS kills liver fluke.

Brandywine said:

Careful with the vit A&D, there are different strengths of it. I would absolutely get her on some, just be sure of the dose your bottle calls for.

Calcium, I disagree with, if she needs calcium something else is missing to cause the calcium not to be absorbed. Vit D and Magnesium are two things that pop up first.

Another reason to not give too much is that other then vitamin K (and another one-E I think) vitamin A and D are able to be stored in the body and may eventually become toxic. With her condition, I doubt that would ever happen, but it can happen. Vitamin B however is cleaned completely from the system every day, which is why nearly everybody is deficient in it to some degree. Theoretically, you can have as much B as you want and be fine.

Which is the exact reason why I am so fond of Posture-D. ;D It has both vitamin D and magnesium. Vitamin E I think also...which of course, is good for skin and hair, among other things.

Kate said:

will eat but isn't exactly rushing over to the new hay

You might want to tempt her appetite with something mildly sweet. I use the cheap Frosted Mini-wheat knockoff cereal to get my goats to eat their vitamins and stuff. It's not bad for her, and two or three wheaties as a treat won't hurt her any. Anything to keep them eating, right? ;D

Post by missourigal on Nov 13, 2008 0:03:37 GMT -5

Yes I would get a fecal done.. I would get some Red Cell & give this to her if her eyelids are pale pink.. If she is anemic, I dont think it will hurt her because it has alot of Vit. in it also..Vit. B- complex would not hurt, BoSo, Vit A,D,E, it comes in a jell form..I would also give her some Cinnamon for her tummy... and also yogurt in the p.m.For her splats I would give her some keopectate, BUT I would get a fecal done by vet to see what is causing the splats......You need to keep her well hydrated.. Is her splats a black and has a very strong odor?????Does she have Bottle jaw?????If she is down I would keep a close eye on her because she may get pneumonia....Does she have a fever????Here is a Recipe for a Electrolyte Solution5 quarts warm water8 tablespoon sugar4 teaspoon salt1/4 teaspoon baking sodamix well and serve, If she wont drink drench her with it... to keep her hydrated... I would give her at lease 1/2 quart every 2 to 3 hours.... Iwould give her some corn, this will help faten her up. BUT alot of people will disagree on this one if too much it will cause it to fermint in gut and cause bloat.. So not too much at one time...

Post by Kate on Nov 13, 2008 21:50:08 GMT -5

UPDATE!

Today we started treating her for coccidiosis. When my parents returned from getting the medication, they found her lying on her side, crying, laying in her own filth, unable to get up. They moved her over, cleaned her off as best they could, and lay down fresh straw. They helped her drink and get a little to eat, treated her with BoSe and the cocci treatment and then left her alone. Later, she was eating and drinking on her own, and she seems to have perked up a little bit. We have her under a low heat lamp and a blanket.

So for now, I think we may have caught up with her. But I'll keep you up to date.