i probably more or less self identify as an ecclectic sort of pagan/wiccan and i know there is a difference. i'm just - not sure where the line is... like - if i start practicing herbology and divination and do a little something on the sabbats and spend alot of time with nature, is that wicca or just - pagan?

:P

An ecclectic pagan. I really like that.

Most Pagans are eclectic by definition. ;D

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

Well, being that Wicca is a religion under the Pagan umbrella, then yes. But the titles are not synonymous.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

This isn't to anyone, but just thoughts. Why do we have to BE anyone? What is it that pushes us to belong to something bigger than ourselves? What pushes us to put names on things and people? From what I have seen in my life people are never just one thing, but a collection of ideas and experiences.

I guess my point is do we limit ourselves when we label ourselves? Do we then try to fit that label by adding things maybe we wouldn't add otherwise? Or getting rid of things that don't fit within our label?

This isn't to anyone, but just thoughts. Why do we have to BE anyone? What is it that pushes us to belong to something bigger than ourselves? What pushes us to put names on things and people? From what I have seen in my life people are never just one thing, but a collection of ideas and experiences.

I guess my point is do we limit ourselves when we label ourselves? Do we then try to fit that label by adding things maybe we wouldn't add otherwise? Or getting rid of things that don't fit within our label?

These are just questions I am rolling around in my mind.

The short answer (as well as the long answer) is that so long as we live in a society composed of individuals, we need a method of being able to express our thoughts to others, and so language becomes necessary. In this vein, having words with meanings which are understood by ourselves as well as others is crucial for the existence of communication.

Labels (or words) do "limit" but this is not something which ought to be shunned. Without those "limits" there is no understanding; words become meaningless or only have meaning at a personal level. If people wish to acknowledge that their beliefs have a commonality with others, to the point that they identify with a given group, there isn't anything wrong with that.

I find the idea of this "labels" = bad/constricting/oppressive rather misguided, largely for the reasons I stated above. If you wish to exist as a hermit, shut off from other people, there is no need for words at all. If you, however, wish to be a member of a given society, or even group, you need to be able to convey your thoughts in a manner which others can understand. Humans, being the social animals we are, like being in groups where they feel welcome. The adoption of a given belief system/religion/path/what have you, is a way for an individual to develop their identity, both for themselves and within the context of a larger group.

I am also not sure what 'denomination' of pagan I am; I have finally accepted that I am a witch. I was raised Christian. My Mom was a Methodist; my Dad was a Southern Baptist. As a baby I was christened in the Methodist church of my Mom's childhood. Once my parents divorced, my Mom still professed to be Methodist and that's the church we attended for awhile. I never liked the 'hell & brimstone' sermons that had the preacher screaming from the pulpit we were all damned to hell for this and that and often wondered at why anyone would follow a God that hated everyone so much. My Mom's faiths changed with each subsequent marriage. Her 2nd husband didn't believe, so we didn't go to church at all. Her 3rd husband was 7th Day Adventist, so we started getting preached at by him that Saturday was actually "God's Day" and the actual "sabbath" and I remember thinking as a teen, 'who cares what day is "sabbath"? Why does it matter? If you believe in God isn't everyday "sabbath" so to speak?" As a teenager I dated a boy that was Pentacostal and started attending church with his family. Their services preached about a loving God, not a hateful God. It was okay to listen to 'Christian Rock' instead of just old hymns. I liked that church a lot better and my Mom was terrified it was all a 'cult'. I was 16 at the time. None of it really fit. I've always had 'other' thoughts throughout my life. When I was 15, my grandfather died. I was very close to him. He was the 1st spirit that I saw & it didn't scare me at all; it made me feel peaceful and hopeful. When I told Mom about it, she promptly took me to a Dr & had me medicated. I'm 36 now, with a wonderful husband of 17 yrs & mother of 3 sons, ages 16, 14, and 12. My Mom died 3 yrs ago, but before she died she told me she was a witch. I was terrified! She said I was also a witch, I was born that way & that she had denied her truthful path for yrs & had recently accepted it. She told me we had a long line of witches in her line and she started teaching me. She admitted that I'd seen spirits since I was 6 yrs old & asked if I still saw them. We had just bought a house that was built in 1870 & I admitted that I saw spirits often - some 'old' spirits & some new that seemed rather clueless as to where they were or why. She said it was my 'gift'. She also said the women in her line that were witches were 'healers' & she pointed out that she had noticed I had used 'natural remedies' for a lot of things for yrs. She asked why I did that & I admitted I didn't really know why, that I just always seemed to 'know' what worked for which ailment & had just gravitated towards it over the yrs of my adulthood & motherhood. She died suddenly & unexpectedly & I felt 'abandoned' for the first yr w/o her guidance & friendship. Then I started 'seeing' her & she explained the books were in her things & to keep studying & learning. I went through the boxes of her things that I'd just put in my attic after cleaning out her house & found tons of books on witchcraft & delved into them. My husband finally asked me one day why was I so depressed & angry all the time. I burst into tears & told him because I was a 'freak'! He was shocked & wanted to know what I was talking about. I told him I was a witch & he said, 'okay.' I just stared at him & went into what I believed & how I'd been doing spell work at night after everyone was in bed & that I felt alone because we live in the Southern US - in the 'Bible Belt' & that I couldn't tell anyone what I am or what I believe in because my entire family would disown me & that Mom was the only one I could talk to about it. He said he was okay with it & told me I could tell him anything. Over the last yr I've opened up more to him & he says what I believe sounds 'peaceful' and 'loving' - unlike the churches we visited when we 1st got together. He's from NJ & wasn't raised religious. His Mom got 'saved' after 9/11/01 & now takes our sons to church with her some. My 16 & 14 yr olds have started asking questions about the Baptist faith she is & while I didn't come right out & say I was a witch/pagan to them I've told them some things & they've admitted they see spirits as well. My 12 yr old is a 'Bible thumper' as I call them & is young enough he's buying into the Baptist Christianity a great deal. I'm not pleased with it, but I believe he'll come to his own conclusions one day. Unfortunately, in the area I live in, I'm still in the 'broom closet' because I honestly think my family would try to 'convert' me or burn me at the stake. It's sad that at 36, 3 months away from 37 I still have to hide who I am like a teen. But I know who I am & just knowing that & admitting it to myself & my husband has been very freeing to me.

If I need to have a label, then I choose Pagan Pantheist. I consider it pretty generic. I was wondering for a while if I should consider following a more definite path, but decided that for now I'll just settle with what I feel is right.

Maybe in the future something will come to me that will lead me somewhere specific, but as I am at present going through a pretty heavy emotional upheaval its not the time.