The way that white people succeed by saying that there is a level playing field between the races is that they convince themselves of this, they convince other white people of this, and they convince non-white people of this.

Then, when the non-white people have to run up a steep grade and kick the ball uphill, so to speak, and the white people have the level field, the white people can say, "see they're inferior'. The white people become blind to the fact that the playing fields aren't equal, really don't even see it after a while.

They can blame all the problems of non-white people on them rather than on the grade of the playing field. They can keep their sense of superiority. I know that you know all this -- I'm trying to think of how I know this or aspects of my knowledge of it as a white person that is somehow different than how you know it as a black person.

I guess what I would say is that when I hear white people blaming problems that to me are clearly caused by WS/R and "niggerization" on the non-white people themselves, I do have the sense that many of them HONESTLY think that, they have been so brainwashed by the system of white supremacy.

Others, I get the sense are saying it but really know the truth is otherwise.

And they hate it when black people are successful despite all this. The other kind of white person, non-racist, me and my friends, feels just the opposite - and there are a lot of us.

In my statement in the definitionary at being unanswered, this is the thread to which I was referring - these are posts made specifically to you promptly in answer to questions. I had been awaiting your reply. I am sorry that I did not understand that you don't always answer right away when you have received a reply. A week had seemed a long time, and I had thought you were dropping the thread, which was painful. I apologize for my misunderstanding of your not replying due to your travel constraints. cloudsong

Joined: 12 Apr 2003Posts: 3083Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: Re:

cloudsong wrote:

Virtual God,

In my statement in the definitionary at being unanswered, this is the thread to which I was referring - these are posts made specifically to you promptly in answer to questions. I had been awaiting your reply. I am sorry that I did not understand that you don't always answer right away when you have received a reply. A week had seemed a long time, and I had thought you were dropping the thread, which was painful. I apologize for my misunderstanding of your not replying due to your travel constraints. cloudsong

No problema. I am in New York on business. I'll get to the posts sometime this weekend when I return._________________What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?

FIRST OF ALL CHECK OUT THE WEBSITE STEWARTSYNOPSIS.COM. O.K
WHITES HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM. THIS PROBLEM IS THE GENETIC INABILITY AND ABSENCE OF MELANIN TO PRODUCE THE DIFFERENT SKIN PIGMENTS SEEN THROUGHTOUT THE WORLD. CHECK OUT THE SITE INDEX-ALBINOS-THE ORIGIN OF THE CAUCASIAN RACE!
FURTHERMORE THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EXCEPTING WHERE THEY COME FROM. OH I WOULDN'T SPEND MY TIME WITH RESPONDING TO IGNORANT PEOPLE. CHECK OUT THE TALKING DRUM.COM YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT kevinward77@yahoo.com LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU. THEY HAVE US THINKING THAT BLACK/ BROWN IS A CURSE OR SOMETHING NEGATIVE. SICK WHITE FOLKS. EMAIL ME BROTHER._________________mr .kevin ward

Highhouse, your post is so offensive even if it's meant as a joke it's beyond the pale. Cotton? Boy?

You've lost any credibility for having good will here. I still respect Conehead because he honestly seems to be trying to communicate. The implications, that black people were MADE to pick cotton, paid NOTHING, families torn apart. You're joking about SLAVERY, and joking about the people you are talking to being descendants of those slaves. That's real funny, right.

And the post to which you were referring had legit points to which you might have responded.

THAT'S part of the problem, your post. Go pick some humiliation. Good boy.

Joined: 12 Apr 2003Posts: 3083Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:21 am Post subject: Re:

cloudsong wrote:

Okay, I'll give you the example of Ashcroft blocking the nomination of that black judge. I'll try to think of his name -- see, even his name has been forgotten while Ashcroft's is more prominent.

When he did that, he did it obviously out of his teeth-gritting hatred of letting even one black man succeed. Frankly I don't know how Ashcroft is even able to work with Powell and Rice, but anyway, so he blocked the black judge successfully, claiming he was soft on crime.

That act of malicious white supremacy and racism caused there to be a white judge installed instead, who would presumably be more sympathetic to ruling against black people or causes that help black people in cases he adjudicates.

The ripples from that will go on and on and on. Meanwhile, Ashcroft did not have to pay for this - he still got to be Attorney General, where he is able to hurt non-white people in ways I'm sure beyond our wildest imaginings and fears. He can also hurt white people who are non-racists, and I'm sure he is and will.

Non-white men right now who are in Guantanamo, and others who are being held with no access to lawyers and no due process, are all outgrowths of all these steps of white supremacy. I think it all began when Ashcroft was born, and was obviously not nurtured and loved, and felt shame that his family was poor, and the roots of that go even further back.

cloudsong

I don't think this is an example of the step-by-step process by which white people benefit from non-white people being harmed. Please give an account, if you are able, of a step-by-step process by which white people benefit from non-white people being harmed and what specific words and/or actions non-white people use to effectively counter the behavior of white people who are acting to harm non-white people.

It would be beeter for me if you would place this information in the Counter-Racist Science Project forum in the scientific format so that I may understand it better._________________What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?

Joined: 12 Apr 2003Posts: 3083Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: Re:

cloudsong wrote:

I think you wanted a more personal example. There was an incident that greatly bothered me. My friend was working at Children's Hospital in another city, in the Child Life department, and I was a volunteer for her.

The hospital got a lot of abuse cases.

A little boy came in, the son of a black family from the poorest area in the city. The doctors thought it was possibly an abuse case, and told the parents that they were going to call in the social workers.

The parents immediately got angry and scared. The white doctors misinterpreted this to mean that they had something to hide. I felt the family's reaction was simply due to a picture they had of social workers, or their knowledge that black people have definitely in the past been accused with no evidence.

The child was treated, and my friend gave him a lot of toys from the toy room to take home. The father reacted with anger and said his son would not accept toys from this 'white institution'. That was seen as the father acting against the child's best interests -- again, an interpretation based on a white paradigm with no understanding of the father's perspective.

The child was sent home - he was diagnosed with a chronic disease that would require a lot of home care. The mother had other children at home and the father was unemployed. My boyfriend at the time and I asked for the address of the family so that we could go and ask them if I could help in babysitting for their other kids at no charge, and to give them some money we had at the time which we knew was a lot of their problem, caused in part by WS/R. We had fallen in love with the little boy.

We were told their address could not be given out. We asked if we could get the money to them somehows. We were told "no".

The way the white people thought they benefitted in this situation was that they got to act as the "professionals", they trivialized the feelings and frame of reference of the black family, and they probably ensured that they would have more "business" for doctors and social workers from this family for years to come, by not truly helping them, but rather really by harming them. Medically, I'm sure they helped him, but not socially or psychosocially.

I must say I disagree that white people ever really benefit from WS/R. That is why I have to qualify it and phrase it "how they think they benefit".

I suspect that this is the crux of the issue . You telling me that you think white people do not benefit from white supremacy (racism) and still calling it white supremacy (racism).

cloudsong wrote:

Now there are a lot more black nurses and child life specialists, perhaps a scenario like this would be less common. It was a combination of the things the white people were saying about the black family including wrong assumptions, combined with their actions which hurt the family.

cloudsong

Do you really think giving non-white people more money or access is the logical mechanics to replacing the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) with a SYSTEM of justice?

Still you have not included what non-white people can do to counter the behavior of being mistreated on the basis of color. I suspect you cannot but I will ask you again to place all of your responses in the Counter-Racist Science Project forum in the scientific format so that I may understand it better._________________What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?

They think they benefit, because they benefit economically, and they benefit power-wise. More access to resources, more options in life, more wordly pleasures. Those don't add up to true benefit in the final analysis. Hurting others can never benefit oneself.

Would you want greater power and wealth if it came at the expense of your remaining true to justice and goodness?

White supremacists may have power and pleasures, but they do not have true benefit. At least, I don't see how they could have since benefit is achieved by correct action and by giving to others.

Every time a person is hurt through your actions, you have blood on your soul.

A white supremacist might be having a ball, but he has blood on his soul. Sitting in a mansion with all the money and power you could ever want, having a grand time wielding power, you're still sitting there with blood on your soul.

They think they benefit, because they benefit economically, and they benefit power-wise. More access to resources, more options in life, more wordly pleasures. Those don't add up to true benefit in the final analysis. Hurting others can never benefit oneself.

Would you want greater power and wealth if it came at the expense of your remaining true to justice and goodness?

White supremacists may have power and pleasures, but they do not have true benefit. At least, I don't see how they could have since benefit is achieved by correct action and by giving to others.

cloudsong

Thank you for your response. I suspect being in POWER is a benefit and a value within itself._________________What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?