Pro and Con 1741

Posted 8-4-13

ANOTHER TYPE OF SILKWORM MOTH

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Patti C (4 Aug 2013) "SATURN AND THE STAR OF DAVID"

I have been reading letters, here on Doves, recently, about the planet Saturn and the Star of David as if these were something a born again Christian should consider as being of Spiritual or Biblical importance. I am not trying to insult or offend anyone, but, I am offended by the idea that God lives on Saturn, or that the star of David is a symbol for the real nation of Israel. I feel a great need to set the record right. Both are satanic and evil, and if we believe otherwise we are believing a great lie! God created the planets, He does not live on one, especially Saturn!!! All one needs to do is look into what both these symbols mean to the occult, and how the materialistic fallen world has adopted these images as logos for their products, and how these images have evaded every aspect of life on this planet.

I feel it is crucial that we really look into what these symbols mean and how they have been used throughout history, both in the Bible and the occult world. The following are some excerpts from the best study I have ever seen on this subject. Even though the web site may not be considered a purely Christian web site, the research and the history are excellent, not to mention the wealth of pictorial proof. After reading this letter, please go to this web site and read the whole article and view the pictures. If you come away still believing that the planet Saturn or the Star of David (hexagram) has anything to do with God and His people, then there is nothing anyone can do the enlighten you to the real story.

Here is the web site: www.worldtruth.tv/secret-occult-of-saturn-worship

Here is a great deal of the written text, as excerpts, to show you what I mean. PLEASE GO LOOK AT THE PICTURE...THEY ARE WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS!

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THE STAR OF DAVID OR SEAL OF SOLOMON

Many Jews and Christians have been deceived by Jewish Kabbalists who would have them believe that the six-pointed star is a Jewish symbol. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is not a Jewish symbol, but an occult symbol. The six-pointed star is a hexagram - a curse mark - no matter what name it may have: the Star of David, Solomon’s Seal, Double Triangle, Shield of David, etc. When the occult practitioner puts a curse on someone, he uses the hexagram!

It is not our goal to condemn the Jewish people, but to condemn the six-pointed star, a curse mark.

The 6-pointed star is not a Jewish symbol, but an Egyptian symbol which Israel adopted in the wilderness due to their apostasy.

Acts 7:37-43 "This is that Moses…to whom our fathers wold not obey, but thrust him from them, and IN THEIR HEARTS TURNED BACK AGAIN INTO EGYPT… And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifices unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the HOST OF HEAVEN: as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to Me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAROF YOUR GOD REMPHAN, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon."
Amos 5:26-27 "But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord..."

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia declares that the SIX-POINTED STAR...according to the Rosicrucians...was known to the ancient Egyptians." (Graham, p. 13)
"SIX TRIANGLES...is the Egyptian hieroglyphic for the ...Land of the Spirits." (Churchward, p. 177)<

"Ancient Egyptian Seal of Solomon" (Churchward, p. 188)
"In the Astro-Mythology of the Egyptians, we find belief in the first man-god (Horus I) ...and his death and resurrection as Amsu"
"This (6-pointed star) was the first sign or hieroglyphic of Amsu"
"Amsu - the risen Horus - was the first man-god risen in spiritual form." (Churchward, p. 3, 65, 38)

The six pointed star is associated with the worship of Saturn. Therefore, the beast is Saturn (Satan) and his mark is the 6- pointed star.
Acts 7:43 - Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR OF YOUR GOD REMPHAN, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Amos 5:26-27 - But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord.

Both Chiun and Saturn are identified as Cain

"The god of time was Chium in Egypt, or Saturn...
N.B. Chium is an alternative spelling of Chiun: "...Chium, Chiunkiyyun, khiyun (Hebrew)..." - Theosophical Glossary (898)

"Chiun is sometimes called Kaiwan, or spelled Khiun, and means star. The star of Saturn was a god... Sakkuth and Kaiwan or Chiun are objects of idolatrous worship and are Assyrian gods. In Akkadian texts both names mean the planet or star, Saturn." (Graham, The Six-Pointed Star, pp. 28-29)

This is perhaps the oldest form of idolatry practiced by the ancients. According to Wisdom xiii. 2, the observation of the stars in the East very early led the people to regard the planets and the fixed stars as gods. The religion of the ancient Egyptians is known to have consisted preeminently of sun-worship. Moses sternly warned the Israelites against worshiping the sun, moon, stars, and all the host of heaven (Deut. iv. 19, xvii. 3); it may be said that the prohibition of making and worshiping any image of that which is in heaven above (Ex. xx. 4; Deut. 5:8) implies also the stars and the other celestial bodies. The Israelites fell into this kind of idolatry, and as early as the time of Amos they had the images of Siccuth and Chiun, “the stars of their god” (Amos v. 26, R. V.); the latter name is generally supposed to denote the planet Saturn. That the kingdom of Israel fell earlier than that of Judah is stated (II Kings xvii. 16) to have been due, among other causes, to its worshiping the host of heaven. But the kingdom of Judah in its later period seems to have out-done the Northern Kingdom in star-worship. (The Jewish Encyclopedia, Star-Worship, p., 527)

The Kenites who claim to have descended from Cain wore the mark of the Tau Cross, the letter of Saturn, on their foreheads.
"In this overlapping form [the Star of David] is the mark of the double messiah: the priestly ... messiah and the kingly...messiah. As such it is the only true sign of Jesus, and it carries the extra meaning as being the representative of the BRIGHT STAR OF DAVID'S LINE THAT AROSE IN THE MORNING. If the Star of David is a symbol of the unified messiah-ship of Jesus, it should be the mark of Christianity. Then the question has to be, what is the symbol of Judaism? The answer is the cross. This is the mark of the 'TAU' and it is this shape of cross upon which Jesus was crucified. The TAU was the mark of Yahweh...the Kenites bore ON THEIR FOREHEADS long before Moses came across them in the wilderness..." - The Hiram Key (162:140-141)
"TAU... [is the] letter of Saturn..." Israel Regardie, The Golden Dawn (153:215)

The Chaldean number for Saturn is 666, suggesting that the mark of Cain was a prototype of the mark of the beast-the six-pointed star received by those who will worship the god Saturn during the Golden Age of Saturn , the occult millennium (which will be shortened to 3 1/2 years). Some Jewish sources also say the mark of Cain was the Seal of Solomon or Star of David. (See: The Six-Pointed Star: It's Origin & Usage)

In ancient pagan mythology, Saturn ruled over the pre-Flood kingdom of Atlantis and became the divine ancestor of all earthly patriarchs and kings.
"Chronos, or Saturn, Dionysos, Hyperion, Atlas, Hercules, were all connected with 'a great Saturnian continent;' they were kings that ruled over countries on the western shores of the Mediterranean, Africa and Spain. One account says: 'Hyperion, Atlas, and Saturn, or Chronos, were sons of Uranos, who reigned over a great kingdom composed of countries around the western part of the Mediterranean, with certain islands in the Atlantic. Hyperion succeeded his father, and was then killed by the Titans. The kingdom was then divided between Atlas and Saturn -Atlas taking Northern Africa, with the Atlantic islands, and Saturn the countries on the opposite shore of the Mediterranean to Italy and Sicily.' (Baldwin's Prehistoric Nations,' p. 357.)
"The period of Saturn's government was sung in later days by poets as a happy time, when sorrows were unknown, when innocence, freedom, and gladness reigned throughout the land in such a degree as to deserve the title of the Golden Age." (Murray's Mythology,” p. 32.)

The Six-Pointed Star is engraved on the Talisman of Saturn which is used in ritual magic TALISMAN OF SATURN

"On the first face is engraved...a pentagram or a star with five points. On the other side is engraved a bull's head enclosed in a SIX-POINTED STAR, and surrounded by letters composing the name REMPHA, THE PLANETARY GENIUS OF SATURN, according to the alphabet of the Magi." (Christian, p. 304-5)

"Theophrastus Paracelsus revived, in the XVIth century, the ancient doctrine of Talismans, which he claimed to be able to use successfully in the treatment of illnesses and accidents. This medical doctrine, derived from the Cabala, or secret tradition of the Jewish rabbis, was said to be borrowed from the ancient occult sciences of Chaldea and Egypt. The talisman (tsilmenaia) signifies an image, a figure, and was engraved in the form of an emblem or symbol on metals consecrated to the genii of the seven planets. This magical task had to be carried out at a fixed time of a certain day, with the firm intention of attracting to the talisman the beneficent influence of the genius which was invoked, whether for health or any other protective measures...

Sri Aurobindo, a Hindu guru well-known in the New Age affirms that SATURN IS REPRESENTED BY THE NUMBER 6... because the planet Saturn is 6th of the nine planets in distance from the sun." (Marrs: Mystery Mark, p. 68)

"This is the sign with which the Magus DECORATED HIMSELF when he has reached the HIGHEST DEGREE OF INITIATION" (Christian, p. 110-111)

The six-pointed star was used in mystery religion initiation rites.

"In an ancient book on numbers the INITIATE is defined as 'the one who has experienced and expressed 666 and found it naught; who has dropped the 6 and become the 66, and thus found himself on the Way; later, again, he drops the 6 and becomes the PERFECTED 6-FORM, the instrument and expression of spirit." (Bailey: Rays and Initiations, p. 80)

King Solomon reintroduced the 6-Pointed Star to the Kingdom of Israel. The Talisman of Saturn became known as the Seal of Solomon.

...Solomon's blatant idolatry had angered the Lord to the point of bringing about the division of the kingdom of Israel. Part of the evidence is the six-pointed star, which was called the Seal of Solomon from then on. Let us investigate those false gods with which he was involved"

First mentioned was ASHTORETH, otherwise called ASTARTE, the word meaning STAR."

II Kings 23:13 is explicit: 'And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.'...
"King Solomon built an altar for Ashtoreth, worshipped her, and also practiced Moloch rituals. It was at this time that the HEXAGRAM OR SIX-POINTED STAR CAME TO BE CALLED THE SEAL OF SOLOMON...
"...the Seal of Solomon or six-pointed star, or hexagram...was considered an ALL-POWERFUL TALISMAN especially when accompanied by the Hebrew Yod...It was also combined with the Tau cross, or Crux Ansanta in the center...
"...How do the dictionaries define 'hexagram'? 'The root word hex is defined as (1) an evil spell, (2) a witch (v.t. to bewitch)' (Funk & Wagnall's Dictionary)...

"Solomon's Seal was accepted as occult by the occult world. King Solomon was deeply involved in witchcraft and occultism. According to The Sorcerer's Handbook, 'King Solomon, traditionally known as an arch magician, used a spell to banish infernal beings sent by the king of demons to extract human hearts… [The names of the demons are then given.]'... (Dr. O.J. Graham, The Six Pointed Star, 24-5, 29, 32)2.

The Seal of Solomon is a graphical representation of 666, the number of the Beast, and Solomon is the man whose number is 666:
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is SIX HUNDRED THREESCORE AND SIX. "(Rev. 13:18)

"Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was SIX HUNDRED THREESCORE AND SIX talents of gold..." (1 Kings 10:14)

Solomon's Seal was accepted as occult by the occult world. King Solomon was deeply involved in witchcraft and occultism. According to The Sorcerer's Handbook, 'King Solomon, traditionally known as an arch magician, used a spell to banish infernal beings sent by the king of demons to extract human hearts... [The names of the demons are then given.]'... (Graham: 24-5, 29, 32)2.

"Solomon's Seal. The symbolical double triangle, adopted by the Theosophical Society and by many Theosophists. ...the pentagram is the triple triangle-the six-pointed star being the hexalp ha (See 'Pentacle'... The way a triangle points determines its meaning. If upwards, it means the male element and divine fire; downwards, the female and the waters of matter; upright, but with a bar across the top, air and astral light; downwards, with a bar–the earth or gross matter, etc." - (H.P. Blavatsky, Theosophical Glossary)

SATURN

You might not know it, but the entire world has been worshiping Saturn for thousands of years. The cult has never stopped and its rites are still present to this day. Saturn, dubbed the "Lord of the Rings", is the reason why we exchange rings at weddings or put halos on the heads of godly people. This article exposes the attributes of the god Saturn and the perpetuation of his cult through corporate logos.

Since ancient times, sages gazed at the stars, admiring their heavenly glow and attributing them godly powers, based on their effect on humans. Before the Great Flood, Saturn was regarded by all mankind as the supreme god and ruler of the kings. Occult researchers affirm that Saturn ruled the kingdom of Atlantis and became the divine ancestor of all earthly patriarchs and kings. The cult has been perpetuated through numerous gods during Antiquity:

Occult researchers affirm that Saturn ruled the kingdom of Atlantis and became the divine ancestor of all earthly patriarchs and kings. The cult has been perpetuated through numerous gods during Antiquity. Chronos, or Saturn, Dionysos, Hyperion, Atlas, Hercules, were all connected with 'a great Saturnian continent;' they were kings that ruled over countries on the western shores of the Mediterranean, Africa and Spain.

Saturn in Semitic Civilizations

In Egyptian mythology Isis is considered Saturn's eldest daughter: "I am Isis, Queen of this country. I was instructed by Mercury. No one can destroy the laws which I have established. I am the eldest daughter of Saturn, most ancient of the Gods". Semitic civilizations referred to the god Saturn as "El". The supreme deity was represented by a black cube. Ancient Hebrews represented Saturn with the six pointed star, which later became the Star of David (it also had many other esoteric meanings).

Saturn in Western Civilizations

In western civilizations Saturn always had a negative, if not evil significance. In ancient times, it has been called "The Greater Malefic" which was opposed to Jupiter, "The Greater Benefic". Saturn is esoterically associated with man's limitations, restrictions, death and decay.

The Greeks and the Romans also worshiped Saturn as a cruel deity. Here's a brief summary of the mythology of Saturn in the western world:

His Greek name was "Kronos", the ruler of time, time being the main factor inevitably leading to the death of mortals. Traditional representations of the "grim reaper" originate from the attributes of the god Saturn, who held the sickle with which he slain his father.

"With the deposing of his father, Saturn became the ruler of the Universe for untold ages and he reigned with his sister, Ops, who also became his wife.It was prophesied that one day Saturn would lose power when one of his children would depose him. To prevent this from happening, each time Ops delivered a child Saturn would immediately swallow it. When her sixth child, Jupiter(Zeus), was born, Ops had him spirited away to the island of Crete. She then wrapped a stone in his swaddling clothes. Her deception was complete when Saturn swallowed it, thinking it was the child. When Jupiter was grown, he secured the job of cup-bearer to his father. With the help of Gaia, his grandmother, Jupiter fed his father a potion that caused him to vomit up Jupiter’s five siblings, Vesta (Hestia), Ceres (Demeter), Juno (Hera), Pluto (Hades), and Neptune (Poseidon)."
-Wikipedia, Saturn (mythology)

Saturn has also been associated with Satan and this, for numerous reasons. First, many authors argue that the word Satan is derived from the word Saturn. Second, Saturn is associated with the color black as well as Satan. Third, Ancients considered Saturn to be the farthest planet from the sun , the latter being associated with the principle of Good. (Note that Pluto never was considered a planet). Saturn is consequently the celestial body that is the less exposed to the sun's divine light and thus associated with the coldness of the principle of Evil. Finally, the "great god Pan". the horned deity, represented Saturn in ancient paganism. This half-man half-goat creature is considered the ancestor of our modern depictions of Satan. Pan was depicted with horns due to the fact it represented Saturn, the ruler of the house of Capricorn which symbol is a goat.

Pan was the controlling spirit of the lower worlds. He was portrayed roaming through the forests, penis erect, drunk and lascivious, frolicking with nymphs and piping his way through the wild. We might say he ruled the lower nature of man, its animal side, not unlike Satan. It is the necessary counterpart of the principle of Good. Masonic authors clearly associate Saturn with Satan. Saturn is the opposite to Jupiter; his symbol is the cross above the sign of Luna. He is the Satan, the Tempter, or rather the Tester. His function is to chastise and tame the unruly passions in the primitive man.

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I am going to stop here, but please go to the web site I mentioned and read all about these occult symbols and what they really are. Also, look at information on the CUBE and how many statues and logos use this symbol and what it is portraying. This stuff needs to be exposed and people, especially Christians, need to know that there is NOTHING GOOD about their usage, and NOTHING GOOD accompanying their appearance at this time....evil is taking over and it is EVERYWHERE!!!! I, personally believe that the, so called, Star of David will be the MARK OF THE BEAST because it the way that Satan twists and perverts things, and has throughout all of history, and this is just one of the BIG DELUSIONS that has been here, and will be magnified during these end times.

God bless you all, and let's get the truth about this stuff out there and not hinder the understanding of what these things mean.

OUR GLORIOUS LORD AND KING IS COMING SOON!!! Patti C.

MY REPLY

> > Here is the web site: www.worldtruth.tv/secret-occult-of-saturn-worship
> > Here is a great deal of the written text, as excerpts, to show you what I mean. PLEASE GO LOOK AT THE PICTURE...THEY ARE WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS!

Patti, the title of that website is "Secret OCCULT of Saturn Worship". Underneath that, it says,

In the first paragraph, we find this:
"the entire world has been worshiping Saturn for thousands of years."

In the second paragraph, we find this:
"Before the Great Flood, Saturn was regarded by all mankind as the supreme god and ruler of the kings. Occult researchers affirm that Saturn ruled the kingdom of Atlantis and became the divine ancestor of all earthly patriarchs and kings."

Isn't this enough to show you that this is dealing with forbidden things? If "Occult" didn't raise a flag, "Astrology" should. Stating what "Occult researchers affirm" should be the third strike and they are out. Why would you even read any farther.

Also, Helena Blavatsky was a devout Satan worshipper. Do you want to go by anything she said?
www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/New%20Age/theosophy.htm

We are not to dabble in the occult or astrology. In the Old Testament, it was punishable by death. Saul had the witch of Endor call up Samuel. The next day, Saul and his sons were dead. It is that serious. We are not to make images of anything to worship them, not of a man, god, star or planet. Images are the hallmark of false religion. By their images, you will know them.

Exo 20:4 says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth".

To get around that, the Catholics have deleted the 3rd commandment and split the last one into two.

1Sa 28:6-19 says, "And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die? 10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

The author of that website quoted the Bible, saying,
"Acts 7:37-43 'This is that Moses...to whom our fathers wold (i.e., would) not obey, but thrust him from them, and IN THEIR HEARTS TURNED BACK AGAIN INTO EGYPT… And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifices unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the HOST OF HEAVEN: as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to Me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR OF YOUR GOD REMPHAN, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.'

Amos 5:26-27 'But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord...' "

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says, "CHIUN (2) ki'-un (Amos 5:26 the King James Version): Called in Acts 7:43 "Rephan" (Rhemphan) the planet Saturn.

We are not to make images, or figures, to worship them, or worship the "HOST OF HEAVEN", not even the planet where Jesus has his throne, Saturn.

The star of our God cannot be worshipped.

Only God, or the God/man Jesus, is to be worshipped.

Ezekiel saw the throne of the God/man Jesus.

In Eze 1:1, Ezekiel said, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God".

In 1:26-28, Ezekiel said, "And above the firmament (i.e., expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets, of which Earth is one, v. 15, was the likeness (symbolic language) of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear, Webster's Collegiate Dictionary): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (the only God/man is Jesus Christ) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness (Saturn's rings) round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Eze 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (lively flying things), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces." Earth is a flying globe. It faces four directions all at the same time. It also orbits around the four compass points.

Flags with the four faces, Lion (east), Man (south), Ox (west), and Eagle (north), were set at the compass points around the Tabernacle when the Israelites camped around it in the desert.

JOSEPHUS, A PHARISEE PRIEST, TOLD US WHAT THE LAMPS ON THE LAMPSTAND STOOD FOR

2Co 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man in Christ (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, and 3. Saturn). 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

At the Rapture, we will be caught up to the third heaven, as Paul was caught up.

Satan tries hard to obscure that fact. We need to be discerning. Pay no attention to his lies. Stick with Scripture.

Rev 4:1-6 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (ginomai, lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (Jesus Christ) sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is both the first and the last, Yahweh and Jesus): and there was a rainbow (Saturn's rings) round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. 5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. 6 And before the throne (i.e., on Saturn) there was a sea of glass (i.e., Saturn's rings) like unto crystal (i.e., ice crystals): and in the midst (i.e., middle) of the throne".

Saturn's rings circle the equator.

We will be in this group of saints before the throne of Christ. Rev 5:8-10 says, ...saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

The Lord has prepared for us a city, New Jerusalem, a globe whose length, breadth and height are equal. It will come down and orbit the Earth like the Moon during the Millennium, which will probably start on Mon. Sept. 14, 2015, the Feast of Trumpets. If the Rapture takes place on Tabernacles, Sept. 19, 2013, we might stay in New Jerusalem even before it comes down to orbit the Earth.

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Agape