First, do NOT turn this into complete thread. Please post REAL ideals that they could do NOW to help the game. For example, GIVE US THE CONVENTIAL VEIHCLES RULES!! Sorry, but IIRR, it was said that they were nearly done, or done months ago, and nothing. It looks like the campaign for the vehicles didn't pan out, but you, Palladium could still release the rules, even if might still be some more adjusting that might be needed. Just let us players do it. Right now, I'm going to have to use some ones home rules to use them in an upcoming came. Next, some more characters, even if they are minor ones. Again, someone has done some already. They did some up from the Battlecry game. Palladium should look into seeing if they can to them. Anyone got anything else? And remember, realistic and easy ideals, and lets be civil. ( No wave 2 complaining please. )

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pmPosts: 9559
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.

A way to keep interest alive might be to have a small one or two page feature in the Rifter.Each Rifter could have one minor character or a vehicle or some rules for additional stuff (off the top of my head, advanced rules for 'support fire' from artillery or ships off the board, or the like)Yeah its not a lot, and yes it would be slow......but any official material every three months is an improvement over no material.

_________________

Edmund Burke wrote:

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. -DhAkael

I'd rather see them try taking a page from gw and the data slates/downloads. Every few months release the character rule/card on that download site they've been using for say 2-5 bucks. That way you get the rrt relevant stuff instead of hoping they remembered to put it in the rifter.Definitely agree the conventional rules really need to be released since Wayne has been just sitting on them since last July according to mike. Once again they could try the download thing for 10 bucks but it's just an idea.

A way to keep interest alive might be to have a small one or two page feature in the Rifter.Each Rifter could have one minor character or a vehicle or some rules for additional stuff (off the top of my head, advanced rules for 'support fire' from artillery or ships off the board, or the like)Yeah its not a lot, and yes it would be slow......but any official material every three months is an improvement over no material.

Yeah, I don't think that'd work. In fact, I think it'd cause even more anger. Having the source of new material be a tiny page count of a paid magazine that in all likelihood they don't have any other need for (if more than 1/2 of RRT backers were regular players of PB's RPG's, I'd be surprised).

So, PB charging $12 for a page or two of rules, especially if they were unavailable elsewhere? Yeah, that would likely not work.

Now, if it was a "RRT Edition", where the majority of articles were RRT related, and a decent portion of the remainder were Robotech RPG related, that MIGHT work. There'd still be some people upset, especially if this was the only outlet for stuff, given PB's silence on other stuff. But it MIGHT not be that bad. But 1-2 pages? That'd just raise ire.

I was not complaining, I answered the OP with a way that they could easily and immediately help the game.At this point, it is the best thing they could do to actually help the game -- both in maintaining/renewing/generating interest in the game and increasing sales of currently available products.

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pmPosts: 9559
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.

Jefffar wrote:

Perhaps in concert. Rifter dataslates/scenarios/articles with those just interested in the minis game able to direct download from DriveThru for 2 bucks.

Actually that's not a bad idea...For the RTT crowd it would be simple enough to just down load the file.For the Rifter crowd though....well the bonus material would be good....and might interest a few more people into trying the game.

Especially if there were some way for the causal player to play. Like the aforementioned downloadable paper heroes version of some basic units. That would allow a person to at least try the game with out having to invest several hundred dollars for an entire kit and countless hours of time assembling them (never mind painting!).

_________________

Edmund Burke wrote:

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. -DhAkael

They could take the convention exclusive models of the FPA and MPA and box them into squads of 3, put the cards for them in the box and sell them as Wave 2 models. Have GHQ do new arm poses so the exclusivity of the Con Models is maintained. Easy...and a no brainer. You then get to check off 2 units from Wave 2 as being available...and you lessen the rage. The second thing they could do is adopt my Organized Play PDF and promote it as official. The third thing they could do is make new character cards for other characters. I did some already...and I'm currently working on a few more. You could also get GHQ to sculpt a cat's eye recon in pewter..and create a blister pack with that model and it's rules...and sell it. It's the perfect model to sell as pewter or resin...since you'll only really need one in a 300pt force. Adding some new special rules would be cool too. I'm currently experimenting with a rule for Zentraedi that allows them to Overcharge some of their particle weapons by spending command points. It would allow them to double the range of those weapons for the turn. Expect to see that rule in one of the upcoming characters I'm working on. It will give players a chance to try out the rule.

i'm not sure putting scenario's and cards into the rifter is a wise idea. partky because many RTT players may not want the non-RTT stuff in the rifter, and partly because i do not think the contract with HG allows any robotech stuff in the rifter, be it rpg or RTT.

however scenario's and the like is a good idea. they could be released as PDF's originally, then after a certain number are released, compiled into a print "scenario book" that would be slightly cheaper than buying all of the PDF's separately.make sure each PDF has the current errata added to it as well.

ideally these scenario's could introduce some of the non-mecha figures like the GHQ stuff.. with the cards and rules for them included. so for example, one scenario would have the T-55's in it, and a page of cards for those. and perhaps a paragraph or so suggesting ways you could proxy the tanks if you don't have the GHQ figures (so that players don't feel like they have to go out and buy a bunch before they can play the scenario)

_________________Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)Co-author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter. -Max BeerbohmVisit my Website

They could take the convention exclusive models of the FPA and MPA and box them into squads of 3, put the cards for them in the box and sell them as Wave 2 models. Have GHQ do new arm poses so the exclusivity of the Con Models is maintained. Easy...and a no brainer. You then get to check off 2 units from Wave 2 as being available...and you lessen the rage. The second thing they could do is adopt my Organized Play PDF and promote it as official. The third thing they could do is make new character cards for other characters. I did some already...and I'm currently working on a few more. You could also get GHQ to sculpt a cat's eye recon in pewter..and create a blister pack with that model and it's rules...and sell it. It's the perfect model to sell as pewter or resin...since you'll only really need one in a 300pt force. Adding some new special rules would be cool too. I'm currently experimenting with a rule for Zentraedi that allows them to Overcharge some of their particle weapons by spending command points. It would allow them to double the range of those weapons for the turn. Expect to see that rule in one of the upcoming characters I'm working on. It will give players a chance to try out the rule.

Can't wait to see these new characters! Great ideals evenyone! Now if only Palladium will see this and use them. And keep them coming!

They could take the convention exclusive models of the FPA and MPA and box them into squads of 3, put the cards for them in the box and sell them as Wave 2 models. Have GHQ do new arm poses so the exclusivity of the Con Models is maintained. Easy...and a no brainer. You then get to check off 2 units from Wave 2 as being available...and you lessen the rage.

Lessen the rage? I think it'd exacerbate it. "Hey, people who are owed FPA and MPA (including a set of each in ever BattleCry), we're now selling boxed sets of them for double or triple what you paid for them, plus shipping. Please buy a significantly more expensive version of what you're already paid for."

At this point, asking for more than a nominal shipping cost for stuff people have paid for and been waiting years for, isn't going to soothe anything. That you went and did it, good for you. I just can't see more than a minimal number of people taking them up on it (and they could do it anyways, with a little work). But the backlash would be brutal.

In other threads, several posters (sorry, don't remember who at the moment) discussed PB already has finished files for several PDF that could have been released months ago. That would have helped.

I believe PB could easily help Tactics by incentivizing regional RTT tournaments. They have the data on backers so they know where most backers live. I would target those regional cons, and directly hosting RTT GenCon events. RTT needs public play both to excite the backers and new players.

They don't need to be 75 player mega tourneys. If a regional con could get 20 people, that would be a great start. Especially since players can post pics from cellphones and that would help generate interest.

Also, it would be easy to produce a Missions PDF. Just a PDF with 5 new battle step ups that only use Wave 1 minis. It would be 10 pages and just recycle art from the core book. THAT would make backers feel better that they have a playable game with the stuff they already have. There is a misconception I keep hearing that RTT can't be played as is.

Part of me thinks they are sitting on things for the 'big summer relaunch' which is why finished PDF's aren't available. What they could really do with is getting an online 'buzz' going, assembly videos, painting videos, army showcases. Painting competitions (i.e people submit a pic of a painted battleoid and best painted is picked) Tactics or rules design insights.

long story short if you search for this game online you see only negatives. Getting positives out there to counteract it is crucial. if people see a thread where every post is a model painted by a different person that in it's self would generate interest.

Also, it would be easy to produce a Missions PDF. Just a PDF with 5 new battle step ups that only use Wave 1 minis. It would be 10 pages and just recycle art from the core book. THAT would make backers feel better that they have a playable game with the stuff they already have. There is a misconception I keep hearing that RTT can't be played as is.

+1

Have a few missions that use just the core set, a few that use the contents of a Battlecry pledge and a few that use more wave 1 expansions.

In other threads, several posters (sorry, don't remember who at the moment) discussed PB already has finished files for several PDF that could have been released months ago. That would have helped.

I believe PB could easily help Tactics by incentivizing regional RTT tournaments. They have the data on backers so they know where most backers live. I would target those regional cons, and directly hosting RTT GenCon events. RTT needs public play both to excite the backers and new players.

They don't need to be 75 player mega tourneys. If a regional con could get 20 people, that would be a great start. Especially since players can post pics from cellphones and that would help generate interest.

Also, it would be easy to produce a Missions PDF. Just a PDF with 5 new battle step ups that only use Wave 1 minis. It would be 10 pages and just recycle art from the core book. THAT would make backers feel better that they have a playable game with the stuff they already have. There is a misconception I keep hearing that RTT can't be played as is.

Drachnien wrote:

Part of me thinks they are sitting on things for the 'big summer relaunch' which is why finished PDF's aren't available. What they could really do with is getting an online 'buzz' going, assembly videos, painting videos, army showcases. Painting competitions (i.e people submit a pic of a painted battleoid and best painted is picked) Tactics or rules design insights.

long story short if you search for this game online you see only negatives. Getting positives out there to counteract it is crucial. if people see a thread where every post is a model painted by a different person that in it's self would generate interest.

Great ideals! And maybe also a quick reference page would also help, in PDF form.

Well, I made a list of idea SEVERAL times and sent it to PB. Some of these I did myself. Sorry if this seems a bit slapped together. This was from some stuff I sent over to think on back in later 2014.......

1. Demo Rules, there have been a lot of talk on the importance of the rules and releasing them. Whether the reason truly is HG or something else what would really help here is a reduced rules set that can be a free download. Include only the units in the First Contact box set. That would purposefully exclude units such as the Heavy Arty Pods and Phalanx so Blast rules will not be required. Reduce the number of units to 6. 1. Battlepods2. Glaug3. Recovery Pods4. VT’s5. Tomahawk6. Defender

Add a few Force Cards and Support Cards for those few units. Do not include Elite cards. Also add a reference screen like I created and make it all free to download. This will improve relations, allow stores or possible future players to get a taste. Remove faction cards from the rules.

Personally I would also add some more detailed SKIRMISH rules if possible. The ones in the book can barely be considered skirmish rules, they are badly written and untested and I can see problems with them without even playing them.

This would reduce the Demo book to ~20-30 pages and not have enough units to really be able to play the game unless someone buys the First Contact box set and has a copy of the full rules but gives a taste of what the game is like. This is CRITICAL to regain some fan support in my mind and should be done ASAP.

Most companies and kickstarters have free rules. Heavy Gear, CAV, and others I have on PDF file and got for free. Minis gamers like to know the rules before jumping in. Robotech and Macross fans will buy in regardless unless there is a dark cloud spread over the game.

This will also allow players to critique and be able to offer something that could be used later on towards FAQ’s.

2. Command Rules: I would say make a cover for this and post it up as well as the next couple items to show what you plan to come out with in the next year or so. Many will enjoy it and take it as a good sign, others will point out the release history that PB has but knowing that future support is planned and ongoing will help. Now those FAQ’s from #1 can be used and added to the Command Rules and help us cement them into something really good. These rules will add flavor and detail that might slow down the game but they will be optional and for the players that prefer more detailed combat. Most want epic battles from the series but many will not be able to afford it. I think that this will add to the overall sales but this is not my call. I would also state that these will include a fully detailed set of Skirmish rules. Skirmish rules are what many are hoping for and we will have to do some detailed ones eventually for Cyclones and the New Generation stuff. Might as well bite the bullet and say that a fully detailed set of skirmish rules with be in the Command Rules and that these are what is likely to be used for a different scale New Gen set of minis once we get to that point. We can always change this later but backers knowing that we are looking ahead cannot hurt. The one paragraph for skirmish rules that are in the book is just not going to pass muster.

Things that can be included are:1. Firing torso weapons in Hand to Hand2. Using Command points to turn units around that are in HTH or under attack to eliminate the rear attack bonus3. Detailed Building Destruction Rules Moving through buildingsHow much a building can support before being destroyedBuildings and Fire4. More detailed terrain rules (terrain that is restricted for infantry or really small mecha?)5. Additional Character Abilities6. Elite Special Forces Units like specially armed variation of Veritechs, Destroids, or Zentraedi. 7. Alternate Anti-Missile rules8. Shield Rules for the Jotun, we’ll need them for the Hovertanks and Invid later on regardless.9. I have a bunch more but will need to check my notes.

3. Strategy/Tactical Guide and Scenario Book, on this I was thinking of watching the cartoon and creating some scenarios based off of all of the fights shown from Episodes 1 to 36, came to me when I decided to watch the series again. We could also build a set of strategies to use.

4. Rules for 2nd and 3rd Gen (Obviously a ways out there but partially written up already), this needs to be worked on simultaneously with #1-4 also include counters for them.

7. A cardboard cutout of The Daedalus and Prometheus to scale. While a more ambitious project the sales may be more limited.

8. A cutout of some protoculture tanks and such for Malcontent missions. Objectives.

9. The Theater where Minmei sang.

10. Mars Base Sara Buildings

11. Asteroids and Space Obstacles

12. ARMD platform.....

13. Oberth.....

14. Conventional Stuff, I've done some but these are in no way official. We can work these if for RPG play. Having a protect the convoy scenario with an actual convoy vehicle would be great. There are some already on shapeways. 3D cutouts could be done up pretty easily or full blown minis.

15. Books --> Advanced Rules

16. Books --> Historic Scenarios from Cartoon, I know Tom started working on some.

17. Books --> New Factions UEDF Marines, and more. I had like 6 planned and 2 were almost done. Just a few ideas. Some can be easily made and likely turn some good profit with minimal work. I'll have to find my list. I know I had a few more ideas around.

18. Also with these optional factions very little would need to be done. A small modification pack could be sold that includes some optional GU-11 rifles and missile set-up for the Arty Pods where people could use what they have to build their own sub-faction without buying must more. This will make pledgers happy and also make PB some extra $ since modeling a few new guns and missiles on a sprue should be insanely simple to do. A small production run within the US could be done fairly easily. I can send more info on this if required. I have some pics of some of these done up by fans.

Personally I would also add some more detailed SKIRMISH rules if possible. The ones in the book can barely be considered skirmish rules, they are badly written and untested and I can see problems with them without even playing them.

Well, I made a list of idea SEVERAL times and sent it to PB. Some of these I did myself. Sorry if this seems a bit slapped together. This was from some stuff I sent over to think on back in later 2014.......

1. Demo Rules, there have been a lot of talk on the importance of the rules and releasing them. Whether the reason truly is HG or something else what would really help here is a reduced rules set that can be a free download. Include only the units in the First Contact box set. That would purposefully exclude units such as the Heavy Arty Pods and Phalanx so Blast rules will not be required. Reduce the number of units to 6. 1. Battlepods2. Glaug3. Recovery Pods4. VT’s5. Tomahawk6. Defender

Add a few Force Cards and Support Cards for those few units. Do not include Elite cards. Also add a reference screen like I created and make it all free to download. This will improve relations, allow stores or possible future players to get a taste. Remove faction cards from the rules.

Personally I would also add some more detailed SKIRMISH rules if possible. The ones in the book can barely be considered skirmish rules, they are badly written and untested and I can see problems with them without even playing them.

This would reduce the Demo book to ~20-30 pages and not have enough units to really be able to play the game unless someone buys the First Contact box set and has a copy of the full rules but gives a taste of what the game is like. This is CRITICAL to regain some fan support in my mind and should be done ASAP.

Most companies and kickstarters have free rules. Heavy Gear, CAV, and others I have on PDF file and got for free. Minis gamers like to know the rules before jumping in. Robotech and Macross fans will buy in regardless unless there is a dark cloud spread over the game.

This will also allow players to critique and be able to offer something that could be used later on towards FAQ’s.

2. Command Rules: I would say make a cover for this and post it up as well as the next couple items to show what you plan to come out with in the next year or so. Many will enjoy it and take it as a good sign, others will point out the release history that PB has but knowing that future support is planned and ongoing will help. Now those FAQ’s from #1 can be used and added to the Command Rules and help us cement them into something really good. These rules will add flavor and detail that might slow down the game but they will be optional and for the players that prefer more detailed combat. Most want epic battles from the series but many will not be able to afford it. I think that this will add to the overall sales but this is not my call. I would also state that these will include a fully detailed set of Skirmish rules. Skirmish rules are what many are hoping for and we will have to do some detailed ones eventually for Cyclones and the New Generation stuff. Might as well bite the bullet and say that a fully detailed set of skirmish rules with be in the Command Rules and that these are what is likely to be used for a different scale New Gen set of minis once we get to that point. We can always change this later but backers knowing that we are looking ahead cannot hurt. The one paragraph for skirmish rules that are in the book is just not going to pass muster.

Things that can be included are:1. Firing torso weapons in Hand to Hand2. Using Command points to turn units around that are in HTH or under attack to eliminate the rear attack bonus3. Detailed Building Destruction Rules Moving through buildingsHow much a building can support before being destroyedBuildings and Fire4. More detailed terrain rules (terrain that is restricted for infantry or really small mecha?)5. Additional Character Abilities6. Elite Special Forces Units like specially armed variation of Veritechs, Destroids, or Zentraedi. 7. Alternate Anti-Missile rules8. Shield Rules for the Jotun, we’ll need them for the Hovertanks and Invid later on regardless.9. I have a bunch more but will need to check my notes.

3. Strategy/Tactical Guide and Scenario Book, on this I was thinking of watching the cartoon and creating some scenarios based off of all of the fights shown from Episodes 1 to 36, came to me when I decided to watch the series again. We could also build a set of strategies to use.

4. Rules for 2nd and 3rd Gen (Obviously a ways out there but partially written up already), this needs to be worked on simultaneously with #1-4 also include counters for them.

7. A cardboard cutout of The Daedalus and Prometheus to scale. While a more ambitious project the sales may be more limited.

8. A cutout of some protoculture tanks and such for Malcontent missions. Objectives.

9. The Theater where Minmei sang.

10. Mars Base Sara Buildings

11. Asteroids and Space Obstacles

12. ARMD platform.....

13. Oberth.....

14. Conventional Stuff, I've done some but these are in no way official. We can work these if for RPG play. Having a protect the convoy scenario with an actual convoy vehicle would be great. There are some already on shapeways. 3D cutouts could be done up pretty easily or full blown minis.

15. Books --> Advanced Rules

16. Books --> Historic Scenarios from Cartoon, I know Tom started working on some.

17. Books --> New Factions UEDF Marines, and more. I had like 6 planned and 2 were almost done. Just a few ideas. Some can be easily made and likely turn some good profit with minimal work. I'll have to find my list. I know I had a few more ideas around.

18. Also with these optional factions very little would need to be done. A small modification pack could be sold that includes some optional GU-11 rifles and missile set-up for the Arty Pods where people could use what they have to build their own sub-faction without buying must more. This will make pledgers happy and also make PB some extra $ since modeling a few new guns and missiles on a sprue should be insanely simple to do. A small production run within the US could be done fairly easily. I can send more info on this if required. I have some pics of some of these done up by fans.

Nice list! See, we want this to succeed Palladium! Please, just look and use some of these! And the link don't work.

Games survive on releases. Since I know nothing about this "Summer Relaunch," maybe if theystarted teasing that, since, you know, we are not that far from summer?(Well..actually, we are insummer, since the the Solstice is actually Midsummer's Day/Eve.)

Ultimately, however, they need to be releasing ANYTHING. Scenarios, conventional units rules,anything. Because releases are what generate interest, and keep people believing the game is supported.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right and the need to get someting out there is and has been paramount.

There are a lot a good abd somewhat easy suggestions here - pdf's, standees terrain and so on - but what seems to be lacking is the wil todo something.

Therefore I would suggest the greatest help to RTT att the moment is that Palladium actually proiritise it above all else for a few months and finally deliver on their 3 year plus promises.

There is another game I loved done by another company. The game was about flying battleships just before WW1. It was awesome, but they released the core box and two fleet boxes(for the fleets already in the core box. Only difference was some extra ship cards), and then talked up how they had plans to add these other fleets, even showed snippets of thedevelopment work...and absolutely nothing came out of all of it, and the company that made this game has not put outeven a PDF for the game in LONGER than it has been since Palladium did anything for RTT.

While that is a worse-case scenario, I think getting ANYTHING out would go a long way towards alleviating any fear of asimilar fate for RTT. Confidence that the game will be here and being supported next year is a huge thing for drawing inplayers. Without players, there can be no game. Palladium and Ninja Division need to work right now, when that confidenceis flagging, to show the potential players who are going "Yeah, the initial box is nice and all...what have they done since?"that there is stuff they can buy.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right and the need to get someting out there is and has been paramount.

There are a lot a good abd somewhat easy suggestions here - pdf's, standees terrain and so on - but what seems to be lacking is the wil todo something.

Therefore I would suggest the greatest help to RTT att the moment is that Palladium actually proiritise it above all else for a few months and finally deliver on their 3 year plus promises.

There is another game I loved done by another company. The game was about flying battleships just before WW1. It was awesome, but they released the core box and two fleet boxes(for the fleets already in the core box. Only difference was some extra ship cards), and then talked up how they had plans to add these other fleets, even showed snippets of thedevelopment work...and absolutely nothing came out of all of it, and the company that made this game has not put outeven a PDF for the game in LONGER than it has been since Palladium did anything for RTT.

Leviathans, or "How to screw up a product at launch". Part of the problem with Leviathans was that they promoted it so hard for the convention, then missed that date due to some scheduling difficulties. I believe there was one printed item, and a box insert that wasn't right? And it was never able to recover, because you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. That's IMO where PB are going to have a difficult time with a "relaunch". For GenCon, it was pushed for 2014, missed that, released in 2015 (10 months after retail), didn't appear to sell gangbusters. There's going to be nothing new for 2016. And most importantly, no anticipation of when anything further will be done. And even if it's all ready to go for GenCon 2017, it'll be competing with games that either have an established playerbase due to frequent releases, or are shiny and new.

Sakieh wrote:

While that is a worse-case scenario, I think getting ANYTHING out would go a long way towards alleviating any fear of asimilar fate for RTT. Confidence that the game will be here and being supported next year is a huge thing for drawing inplayers. Without players, there can be no game. Palladium and Ninja Division need to work right now, when that confidenceis flagging, to show the potential players who are going "Yeah, the initial box is nice and all...what have they done since?"that there is stuff they can buy.

While I can understand it's preferable to not announce something, than to announce and miss, at this point, the lack of evidence that there's been significant movement in completing (vague assurances not withstanding), is hard to get around. Five parts breakdowns a year ago, and several 3D prints that may or may not be from files untouched for over a year, do not stiffen flagging confidence. I'll also respectfully disagree that the time is "now". The time was a year ago. Now, it's at best an attempt to salvage anything.

A similar game did a campaign in plastic, and while it's had it's share of problems (dropping two stretch goals, looking to be ten months late, alleged credibility issues), having written about and shown every step of the process has gone a long way to minimizing criticism. The problem Palladium has at this point, is there doesn't appear to be any way that they've either been putting significant work into this project, or that it's not essentially done yet. Four hours a week, from two employees, is almost 800 manhours (counting from when RRT Wave 1 was concluded). A half day a week for Wayne and Kevin, on a project that is this late (that made that much money), doesn't seem like a big ask, yet the lack of movement would indicate it's significantly less than that. I'd be curious how much time has been put into this project since Wave 1 was completed. I don't expect an answer, because no answer would be good. Too low, why so? Too high, where is?

Finally, I'll again respectfully disagree with "the initial box is nice". While I'll admit that some of the figures don't look that bad when properly assembled and painted, and the rules themselves seem adequate enough, I still stand by my initial opinion that it's way too overly complex and fiddly for a starter box. I won't even guess at numbers, but I expect that the percentage of people who passed on it after seeing the sprues is much higher than any other similar game. There's no changing it now, but it'll remain a hinderance PB will have to work to overcome.

I didn't see anyone else mention it, something very small that can be done to increase the health of the game immediately is to assign an official rules representative who can keep a constantly updated and available errata to players as well as go through and answer all of the rules questions in the forums. Some of them have been there for years without any official answers and this leaves the impression that the game itself isn't supported on the most basic level.

That was tried. And the inordinate amount of time it took for the volunteer tasked with it for less than 20 questions, a "formal" RRT Megaversal Ambassador to boot, was ludicrous as it had to be vetted by actual staff at PB.

Palladium has never really supported anything they sell on their own initiative. Very dedicated, devoted, and loyal fans and volunteers did, have, and do and if they are lucky they can get prize support but that is about it by and large.

_________________I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree

I didn't see anyone else mention it, something very small that can be done to increase the health of the game immediately is to assign an official rules representative who can keep a constantly updated and available errata to players as well as go through and answer all of the rules questions in the forums. Some of them have been there for years without any official answers and this leaves the impression that the game itself isn't supported on the most basic level.

It's more than an impression. It's not being supported in any meaningful way. Sure, they're putting out Wave 2 cards finally (at least a year past when it might have made a difference), starting with the least relevant ones for games. But it's been two years, next month, since the product started going out in force. And PB still haven't seemed like they've tried to get an organized play structure in place. There have been a few tournaments organized (but none recently), and a few structured gaming events, but these all seem to have been handled (or handed off to) volunteers, who have pretty much had to organize it all themselves. PB will mention it, but it doesn't seem like anyone at PBHQ wants to do more than hand it off.

Do any of the PB staffers play regularly? Or at all? Have any of the PB staffers assembled their own figures, for play? Have any PB staffers painted their own forces? I'm not talking about volunteers, I'm talking about the 3-4 staffers (Kevin, Wayne, Alex and Chuck?) who work for the company that are obviously gaming enthusiasts. Because while I don't doubt they think (or at least thought) it was a great business opportunity, it doesn't seem like anyone in the company has any passion for the project. Or it doesn't show through. It's just an obligation that they're trying to get out the door, rather than something they care about. And I think it shows.

If you look beyond the vague statements in the PBWU's, an outside observer would probably come to the conclusion that this is a "legacy" game, at best. That it just stretches on into eternity, with no real progress, with no passion, with no support other than the barest mentions. It's not going to take token efforts. It's going to take a major shift in priorities. Or this game line is going to limp along on life support, and many of the people who might have had an interest in it, are going to move on. Every couple of months, there's a new project that is trying to capture the same market. CAV finished their first earlier this year. Heavy Gear are shipping now. And that's just two mecha based games.

And honestly, it may be too late. This was always going to be a niche game, based on a 30yo television show that really hasn't advanced much. Star Wars and Star Trek both have had major recent revisions, that keep the imagination alive. It was always going to be niche, so mistakes like they've made, cut a small target audience even further.

That was tried. And the inordinate amount of time it took for the volunteer tasked with it for less than 20 questions, a "formal" RRT Megaversal Ambassador to boot, was ludicrous as it had to be vetted by actual staff at PB.

Palladium has never really supported anything they sell on their own initiative. Very dedicated, devoted, and loyal fans and volunteers did, have, and do and if they are lucky they can get prize support but that is about it by and large.

Jaymz, I am not talking about having a volunteer do it, I mean an actual company employee who works in game design and is tasked with handling such things.

Reread the second paragraph max. Read it carefully. Especially the first sentence. There is a reason why I, mike1975, and others gave up on RRT over the last year and that first sentence is the primary reason why. We got fed up doing all the heavy lifting while they dragged their feet on everything.

Blast errata. (which i was a part of)Conventional forces rules (which i was a part of, is done, and has been done and in Wayne's hands in its final form since July of last year yet we still wait for it)Paper stand ins for wave 2 which were promised last october and we JUST got recently

Need I go on? The avenues are there. They CHOSE not to take them and leave it to fan volunteers. Why after the last 3 years of this utter fiasco do you think they would do it now when they have shown ZERO desire to do so thus far even when people like me and mike1975 were doing our best to get them too?

_________________I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree

Beast , you may will be right but as for the actual selling, this product has become too toxic for anyone to take a chance on it.

The Wave 2 standees are a start of sorts but why is it always a slow drip, drip , drip of releases? I woud have thought by now PB should be awash in printable material for the game?

However, what is missing is a free quick start set of rules (ala Capt Kattuthers stuff). Another help would be if the downloadable content for RTT, was bundled into bigger packets - it is a pain requesting individual enttries.

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