Devil505 wrote:My bottom line is this Richard: Republicans had complete control of both the White House & Congress through 2006. Why didn't they reign in the Macs then? (my answer: Because their corporate buddies were making tons of $$$$$ while their Congressional hearings distracted us with investigations of steroid use in baseball & Terry Schiavo)

In my opinion, the data you provide shows that both parties were getting pretty significant money from these home mortgage giants, but only one party had complete control of our government for most of the last 8 years & was therefore in a position to actually do something about it, if they really wanted to.My opinion is that neither party is blameless here, but the weight of the blame always has & arguably always should fall on the party in power.

Yes it is true the Republicans have had control of both houses for six years. I will give you that credit. However as soon as the Democrats got both houses they spent money faster than the Republicans. That is when the s--- started to hit the fan! I don't see any evidence at all that the Democrats are doing anything at all to stop this melt down. except what they do best, point fingers and scream enough to have people think they are innocent. I have an idea. Lets take a recession and do what FDR did, Tax the living daylights out of anybody who makes money. Lets also tax the small buisneses and we can turn a recession into a full blown depression mabey it will only take 10 years to get out of it. Or hopefully not ww III.

Duengeon master wrote:However as soon as the Democrats got both houses they spent money faster than the Republicans. That is when the s--- started to hit the fan!

Actually if you look at graphs for foreclosures they spike after the Clinton administration and then slowly fall during the first part of the Bush Administration. It was only in the last 2 years that they have started going up. Whether there is link between this recent spike and Democrats taking control remains to be seen, I haven't gotten that far yet.

Richard S. wrote:You have any number or facts that will point to this theory of yours?

I'm not sure which theory or opinion you are referring to here Richard. If it's who (historically) gets blamed for disasters, who got fired after the Pearl Harbor attack on 12/7/194?...Admiral Kimmel & General Short...The commanders at the scene.Who always gets the blame for the inflation, high gas prices & failed Iran Rescue operation of the late 1970's & early 1980's......Jimmy Carter. Who gets the blame for the Great Depression....Herbert Hoover.....I could go on ad infinitum.It's a long established TRADITION in this country to blame the one who had the power to stop the calamity.

Richard S. wrote:It's interesting you're always railing about Bush being in the pocket of industry but those figures show a different tale at least comparing McCain to Obama.

Where have I ever said that the Democrats don't have some culpability in this? (I'm so angry at the Democrats this year that I'm voting for Ron Paul) My argument is against those who try to lay all or most of the blame for our present economic crisis at the feet of the party out of power & unable to even control the legislative agenda for Congress for most of the last 8 years.

Duengeon master wrote:Yes it is true the Republicans have had control of both houses for six years. I will give you that credit.

OK....So then, with over six years of total control of the government, why didn't they fix Fannie & Freddie???? (You simply can't logically find a way to pin this on the Dems but hold GW Bush & the Republicans blameless)You can say the words, but no one is buying it.

Dick, you can't keep burying your head in the sand... Jimmy Carter started this mess with his attempt to get banks and lending institutions to give mortgages to higher risk borrowers..

Bill Clinton and Janet Reno put 'teeth' into the ruling and liberal government demands that they give loans to bad risk borrowers.. so the lenders just 'sold' the lousy loans to FAnneMaie, and FreddieMac..

Bush and McCain both tried to enact legislation.. and AS YOU VERY WELL KNOW.. regardless of WHO is 'in control' of the congress,, there is NEVER a 'rubber stamp' of any legislation... everyone tries to add some 'pork' for their district and this often makes the best legislation into a real turd.. and it can't get passed because of the way the 'system' works..

SO FACE IT: The Liberals democrats voted in easy loan requirements, and when that wasn't good enough, then they made it ILLEGAL to NOT loan to a poor risk borrower. Then the Republicans.. slightly more conservative, and infinitly more responsible TRIED to reverse the mess and get us on a safer path.. FACE UP TO IT !!! Bush and McCain at least TRIED... but the LIberals shouted them down...

AND NOW THE WHOLE MESS IS AT THE FEET OF THE LIBERALS and Dev, you buy the BS hook,line and sinker that it is somehow the Republican's fault? For God's sake open your eyes...

LsFarm wrote:AND NOW THE WHOLE MESS IS AT THE FEET OF THE LIBERALS and Dev, you buy the BS hook,line and sinker that it is somehow the Republican's fault? For God's sake open your eyes...

Greg L

So you really believe that this administration & the Republican controlled Congress (from 2000-2006) are blameless in all this? Jimmy Carter was to blame for everything that happened on his watch but GW Bush is a victim of liberal evil?You & I are just never going to agree on anything political Greg. I can accept that & wish you would realize that my eyes are, in fact fully open but that I just "see" the world differently than you do.I can separate a person's political views from their value as a human being. I only hope you can & wish John McCain would stop viewing his political rivals as his enemies!

Republican's, due to the need for 60 votes to overcome filibusters by the minority in the Senate, did not have practical "total control" of the congress at any point in the past 8 years. Stop peddling in this misinformation, please.

Republicans had "total control" of the House. They passed, I believe, two bills on this out of committee and off the floor to the Senate. The Senate, though a Republican majority from 2003-2006 and part of 2001-2002, was not a filibuster proof majority at any point and so they didn't have practical "total control" in this chamber. Senate Republicans initiated two bills (I think) of their own on this issue. One never made it out of committee because at the time Democrats were the majority and had control of what passed out of committee on party line votes. They did another in 2006 (the one McCain talks about) and it got out of committee, but was filibustered on the floor, killed by the democrat minority.

Besides these legislative efforts, Greenspan and the former Treasury Sec both testified before congress warning of this problem in the making and asked for needed reforms.

George W. Bush is guilty of pushing for increased national housing goals in the absence of these needed reforms, but the fact is his administration did see the problem, warned of the problem, and pushed for the necessary reforms and the Democrats were energetically opposed in both chambers. GWB tried to have it both ways and deserves some of the blame as a result, but his role in this was split, and regardless he and the last 4 congresses certainly did not create the problem as that groundwork was laid in the 70's and 90's.

Congressional Republicans were not split as a group and were in favor of reforms on this pending problem and Democrats were almost uniformly opposed to such reforms. House Democrat opposition is telling and a clear indictment of the party in their intransigence, lack of concern, and covering for the fraudsters at Fannie and Freddie and in the rest of the industry that handed us this mess, but it didn't matter in a practical sense since the reform efforts made it into bills and were passed out of the House and into the Senate by the Republican majority in that chamber. Senate Democrats, however, either killed bills in committee or they killed them on the floor via filibuster. In both chambers Democrats were steadfastly against these reform efforts. They didn't acknowledge a problem, they voiced support for at least some of the private and quasi-private sector perpetrators, and they used short sighted, despicable rhetoric (largely based in false, latent racism) against those who were trying to stop this problem before it got out of control.

Correction, the 2005 bill McCain cosponsored was reported to the senate committee, but may not have made it out. I'm looking into the details.

edit: Okay. It was indeed passed out of committee. It never got a floor vote though. It is not clear why. Possibly because it was known there would be a filibuster, thus why waste the time with other things on the plate. I've read that the version that came out of committee had been "watered" down to the point that proponents didn't believe it would accomplish what was needed, so enough support dried up that it wasn't put up for vote. The bill also called for a new, non-government regulator with broader authorities than OFEHO (or whatever it is called) had and there was reported to be broad dislike for that on the democrat side (because they were against the non-governmental aspect and they didn't want Fannie and Freddie regulated, not even acknowledging a problem) and some few on the republican side (weary of the non-governmental oversight).