Israeli Leaders Dial Back Iran War Rhetoric After Meetings With US Military Officials

After being briefed by top US military officials, the two top Israeli leaders that have been pushing for war on Iran suggested Obama’s hardline postures and militarism in the Middle East may have eliminated the need for a preemptive Israeli strike on Iran.

Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and National Security Advisor Tom Donilon met with both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak to talk about confronting Iran. Following that on Thursday, they both met with Admiral James Winnefeld, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Citing sources “very close” to Netanyahu, Israeli news said there will be no attempt to attack Iran preemptively provided that Obama sets out his “red lines” and comes through on certain other promises he’s made to Israel.

One television news report quoted senior Netanyahu officials saying an Israeli attack on Iran is becoming “less and less likely.”

“Israel retains its right to make sovereign decisions and the United States respects that,” Barak said. “However, one should not ignore the impressive preparations by the Americans to counter Iran on all fronts.”

“As opposed to the Bush administration, the Obama administration is indeed carrying out steps in the gulf, transferring forces and preparing bases,” another top Israeli official said. “There is an unprecedented US deployment opposite Iran.”

Israel has been trying to pressure the US into backing a military strike on Iran, for a military program it doesn’t even have. But in recent days the fever pitch for war has decidedly lessened following two notable events.

The first was statements made by America’s top military official last week, Gen. Martin Dempsey. He reiterated that the US would not be “complicit” in an Israeli strike, which he also explained would be counterproductive.

The other incident occurred early this week when Israeli press reports came out saying the Obama administration sent a surreptitious message to Iran promising not to back an Israeli strike, as long as Tehran refrains from attacking American interests in the Persian Gulf.

The change of tone seems to have come right when Netanyahu’s cabinet finally realized the US definitely would not back their plan for attack. That they are now dialing back the rhetoric about bombing Iran ‘before it’s too late’ only proves how manufactured the threat they so urgently warned about really was.

While the prospect of an imminent Israeli strike may have been averted, problems on the Iran issue persist. A mix of grand strategy implementations and placating trumped up threats from Israel has prompted the Obama administration to beef up US military presence in the Persian Gulf, militarily surrounding Iran in a virtual garrison. A harsh set of economic sanctions is also crippling the Iranian economy and putting tens of thousands of lives at risk. These aggressive, unjustified policies do not portend future peace.

Author: John Glaser

I wonder if US military officials have finally been shamed into standing up to Israel? I've noticed a lot more stories about how craven and submissive the US government has been towards Israel and I'm thinking maybe this opened some of the generals and maybe DOD officials eyes a little.

Mikw

The endless Israeli interference in American politics as well as the attempt to dictate US foreign policy is truly over-the-top and unbelievably arrogant – the tail acts as if it were entitled to wag the dog.

Sooner or later Americans, and even the Admin., will get truly pis*ed off and put Israel back in its place, and perhaps this has already started – let's hope so!

WTE

You can thank the christian hitler for that. If they only want to survive why don't leave their neighbors alone?

I see you are using your multiple profiles to go from site to site to thumb me down. Funny my points went up today.

How pathetic

WTE

You can't call yourself a christian either. You're evil. What teachings do you follow?
We know you lie, and steal, and don't love your neighbor

Neil

Your gawd is one based on injustice, theft, and racism…Israel is a perfect place for you. You are easily duped, and your attempt at a rebuttal magnifies it! Booo!!

Kevin Stowell

"Your gawd is one based on injustice, theft, and racism"

Funny, I was reared in an extremely adherent Catholic family and I don't remember being taught those things. My oldest paternal uncle was a priest and one of my cousins was a nun.

His actions spoke much louder than his words, as Bon Hoeffer found to his peril.

patriothere

Hitler was of Christian Heritage just like you say Obama is of "muslim heritage". So if it doesn't matter that Hitler was of Christian heritage, then it doesn't matter that Obama is of "Muslim heritage".

Are you still sitting at your work terminal trying to spread hate and bigotry through smears and propaganda? Oh, dummy me. It's all you have, of course you're sticking to it.

Quoting Jesus in a parable telling what a ruler in a story says isn't exactly what I would a direct teaching calling for violence like mohammmed did.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

WTE

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

-Jesus in Luke 19:27

Anyone not conforming to political desires of Hitler would either get executed or imprisoned.

Only was it absurd? I'm not sure… but in any event Christ taught many things but murder and racism wasn't one of them. He even met with a Samaritan Woman and told a parable which an outcast Samaritan being the good neighbor. He even healed the daughter of a Phoenician woman.

No, you showed hitler used the church for his own agenda. You have not shown that Hitler valued anything Christ taught.

I have shown that hitler followedthe mindset of antoher religion.

Hitler lived this:

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in ***** nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which ***** hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."

WTE

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

You lose again roger. Hitler not only believed he did the Lords work, but he thought of himself as a sort of saviour of Germany, and emulated Jesus of the New Testament. His friend Dietrich Eckart told of overhearing Hitler showing off to a lady by denouncing Berlin in extravagant terms: ". . . the luxury, the perversion, the iniquity, the wanton display and the Jewish materialism disgusted me so thoroughly that I was almost beside myself. I nearly imagined myself to be Jesus Christ when he came to his Father's Temple and found the money changers." Eckart described Hitler as "brandishing his whip and exclaimed that it was his mission to descend upon the capital like a Christ and scourge the corrup

You haven't shown anything to back up your position. That's not exactly winning.

And my religion has saved art and science in the dark ages once.

And with militant islam on the march it may have to do that again.

WTE

this kind of Christian apologetic argument fails for several reasons which fall into the trap of several fallacies including: appeal to ignorance (failing to understand the history of Christianity in how it did little to inspire science during the Dark Ages); confusing correlation with causation (just because a scientist accepts religion doesn't mean his science derived from religion); and non sequiturs (it doesn't follow that just because a few scientists believed in God that science resulted from it). The myth also spreads through the bandwagon fallacy (appealing to the popular notion that Christianity began modern science), and confirmation bias (list all the Christian scientists, but exclude their rejection of dogmas that conflicted with their science).

Your argument fails for several reasons that don't need such a long tirade to explain.

The history of the church is filled with flaws and abuses, and the reformation rebelled against them and returned the religion to the teachings of Christ.

Bon Hoeffer understood real Christianity, and died for it. To say hitler was a Christian spits in the faces of the many martyrs that died and struggled to serve Christ, the real test for believers.

You ignore that, and show you don't know the Bible. You ignore that and show you don't understand history, or the religion.

I don't need to reply to the other parts of your comment, they're not relevant to this discussion.

WTE

Clearly, violence, nor non-violence cannot determine a Christian from a non-Christian. Many freethinkers and atheists, for example, live peacefully, but that does not make them, in any sense, a Christian or even Christian-like.

Moreover, the Christian use of the doctrine of sin prevents any meaningful argument against ousting one's claimed Christianhood, regardless of how atrocious the crime. According to Christian interpretation, ever since Adam's fall, all humans live in a 'state of corruption.' Thus all people, including all Christians commit sin. No one in Christian theology makes the claim that Christians subsist in levels of degrees of Christianity depending on how sinless or sinful one lives. Any person, regardless of how much misery he or she has caused in the world, can achieve Christianhood along with an alleged redemption right up to the last second of his or her death. Belief alone determines one's Christianity, not how one acts. However odd it may seem, any conscious human who has the neurological makeup that maps into a belief in God & Jesus, determines his ownership into this belief system.

I have to disagree with you based on history, doctrine and the holy writings of both religions.

And parking in a garage doesn't make someone a car.

Christians stand for something, Hitler stood for something, something totally opposed to the teachings of that religion.

Hitler was no Christian.

WTE

Christianity itself does not create the root problem but rather that the foundations of any faith (reliance on hope and ignorance) creates a defense mechanism that must act to protect itself at all cost, including the slaughter of innocents if necessary. It can come just as well from any belief-set such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, communism, or from any of the Christian denominations. A fanatical believer who gains political control of destructive weapons cannot help but use these instruments to favor his religious and political inclinations. A belief-system that contains violent scripts such as Bibles, Korans or manifestos, can easily create similar intolerances that occurred in Germany in the 1930s. Hitler's faith, his Christian actions, the majority of Christian churches who supported him, his followers who believed in him, and the very Bible with its appeal to superstition, provides important examples of how beliefs can create dangers to society.
Hitler was a chirstian

This is why you don't understand Christianity. islam doesn't have this, but Christianity does. It's about relationship. I am not to feed you pearls, but ask Billy Grahamwho his best friend is. Ask Mother Theresawho her best friend is. Ask any successful Christian who they love and it's one person, the same person.

Hitler never had that, and that's the core of why he was not a successful Christian and why saying Christianity is responsible for the evil in Hitler's life is fundamentally wrong.

Not the gospels, not Acts. Not many of the other materials in the Second part of the Bible.

And it still focuses on the story of salvation, of grace for sinners.

Bianca

What makes one Christian? Isn't it the decison of each individual, not your evaluation? Hitler called himself a Christian, he was steeped in his Catholic childhood when he served as an altar boy, and it is from his Catholic church in Lintz that he took the Nazi cross symbol. It is Vatican that got him going, helping out thousands WWI soldierslike himself from the disintegrated Austro-Hungarian Empire — all devout Catolics. Without Vatican's help, he would have not been able to organize soup kitchens for hungry Germans that suffered one of the most brutal international financial scams of all times. Without the help from Vatican he would have not had the money to organize meetings of Brown Shirts. Remember his motto: if you do not have a shirt on the back, come and get ours. Once he grabbed power due to the feeble German elite that succumbed to the banking speculators — Hitler dialed back his catholic background. He was to become a leader of a country that unlike his native Austria, was mostly protestant. There are many statemenst that he made invoking his personal view of Christian beliefs in support of his policies, including prosecution of Jews.

It's not your call who is a Christian. You call yourself an atheist while defending muslim values. But in any event you have this twisted logic that all violence done by Christians violating the teachings of Christ is bad, and then you ignore all violence done to comply with mohammeds.

I can show other wise. I have shown otherwise, in fact I've shown koran verses that hitler was following, If you want to look at his life he was more muslim than Christian.

WTE

Yes he was.

You can't show otherwise. Not only did Hitler's atrocities remain consistent with God and Jesus' actions in the Bible, but his intransigent attitude parallels many of the fanatical beliefs of Right-wing conservatives of today. Hitler even used his faith in the same way as many mainstream American Christians. It appears clear from the history of Christianity that Hitler brought nothing new to Christianity, albeit he brought its violent nature to new heights.

Like the Biblical God, Hitler created war and destruction.

Similar to the Biblical laws against marrying outside one's group, the Nazi race laws outlawed Jews from marrying Aryan Germans as outlined in Hitler's private notes. Julius Streicher confessed that the race laws got based on Old Testament laws.

Like the Biblical Jesus, Hitler did not live for peace. He created many divisions among the people.

Hitler was no Christian. I have shown and you can't that hitler had any values of beliefs that Christ taught.

And the Biblical Jesus did live for peace. He created the love to reach across the divisions.

Why should you overlook the very things you pretend you hate in islam? Why not just admit to your muslim agenda?

WTE

Hitler was a christian. Although many Christians may want to deny it, there simply occurs no way to honestly avoid the destructive actions by Christians throughout the history of Christianity. Not only did many prominent Christians perform or condone atrocities, but the established Christian denominations supported wars, inquisitions, and exterminations of other faiths and even heretical sects of their own religion. Adolph Hitler simply acted as one of many along a long line of Christians who used his beliefs as a foundation for his actions.

Hitler grew up in the anti-Semitic Austrian/German Catholic culture of his time. A priest baptized him. He got educated in a Catholic monastery under the schooling of Padre Bernhard Groner. On the way to the monastery, Hitler had to pass by a stone arch which had a carved monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika (which some speculate gave him the inspiration for the Nazi cross).

Hitler was not a Christian. The only way muslim friendly people can pretend he was is to ignore everything about Christ and what Christ taught, what His followers are to do, and how they struggled against Hitler who rejected them.

WTE

Struggled against Hitler? Germany was the most christian nation on teh planet at the time and THEY supported him. Hitler could not have come into power without the support of the potestant and ctholic churches and the German christian populace. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him!

And yet you can't show that the evil was a result of Christ's teachings.

I cam show the evil of sharia is a direct result of the teachings of mohammed.

See the subtle difference?

9:14 Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.

Christians of today view the cowards that sat in churches and sang louder as the Jews went by in rail cars as failures, things the Christian history will show as wrong. Bon Hoeffer was the hero, not hitler and Hitler never followed a single of Christ's teachings.

The butcher in Sudan is following the teachings of Mohammed, that's why islam is the bad religion, and not Christ.

WTE

I love how you can can only one claim there was one christian in Germany during WWII, when Germany had more chirstians during that time than any other country

Many Christians were persecuted by Hitler. I love how you pretend the only Christian setting the example at that time was Hitler.

And the Christians following the teachings of Christ were not the ones ignoring the evil of Hitler.

There is a difference between a church and the Christians that might be members. Christianity is about the people, not the power struggles in the leadership of humans using it for political purposes.

Islam? It is. And it uses war like tactics, a reason people here at an anti-war site might be concernced about it's use of violence due to it's core teachings.

WTE

There is a lot of misunderstaning about this. Nobody under Nazi rule was persecuted simply for being a Christian, and Christians were not persecuted as such by Hitler. However, as stated, the Nazi regime did persecute opponents. It also persecuted the Poles, for example. Now some of these opponents were Christians, and in some cases opposition, for example to the euthanasia programme, arose from Christian principles. The great majority of the Poles were Roman Catholics, but were ill treated because they were Poles, not because they were Roman Catholics. It is very misleading indeed to say that 'the Nazis persecuted Christians'. They certainly persecuted people who happened to be Christian, but that is not the same thing.

There is not a lot of misunderstanding about it. Hitler opposed anyone that defied him, and Christian teachings did that, so he went after all true Christians.

Those who followedChristian teachings and helped the Jews escape for example.

It is exactly the same thing. Anti-war behavior is in keepingwith the teachings of Christ.

WTE

He attended the choir. He attended religious services and festivals. An abbot became his idol and he hoped to join the Church as a priest. As a child he used to wear a kitchen apron pretending himself a priest giving sermons. In 1904 Hitler got confirmed at the Linz Cathedral. [Toland] As he grew older, other Christians influenced him, Catholic and Protestant alike. He always paid his church taxes on time. He remained a member in good standing of the Church of Rome until his death. And in 1941 Hitler said:

A person is a Christian after they convert and live a life geared towards and following the teachings of Christ.

Hitler wasn't any of that.

And Hitler would not have been allowed to marry eva in a church, he wasn't a member in good standing. He said many things, but not many of them were true, this is one of those occasions. He used the church for influence when it suited him, nothing more.

WTE

The only evidence we have, or could ever have, about people who call themselves Christian comes from the very confession of those making the claim. And since Hitler makes his claim to Christianity abundantly and clearly, we can only rely on his claim, regardless of whether he actually believed in Christ or not. False Christianity has as just much validity as any claim to Christianity, even if you could prove dishonesty.

But regardless of how you view a person's claim to their religion, to say Hitler used Christianity only for political forces has absolutely no historical basis to back it up. To simply rely on belief or opinion says absolutely nothing about historical fact.

Again you pretend he was Christian.He never followed the teachings ofChrist.

WTE

Like many Christians in the past and today, Hitler aimed to protect the image of the Lord.

Like Christian leaders of the past, Hitler wished to unite the churches. He fought for his beliefs using the Lord as his justification. He created intolerance, divisions, and hatred as have Christians of the past.

Hitler did not protect the image of the Lord by murdering 11 million people.

Don't even pretend it.

And don't blame the things on God that He doesn't deserve. Read Job.

This is one of those times you're not to be fed pearls. You have your muslim friendly agenda, so anything explained to you is wasted effort.

If you want one source for the things hItler stood for and lived for it would be something like this.

9:14 Fight them! ***** will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.

That is how Hitler behaved and lived. And that blanked word isn't from Jesus. And the text is current and used today by one religion. It's not Jews and it's not Christians.

This is why your points are propaganda it side steps the reality in the world as we live in it.

WTE

Hitler lived as a confessed Christian. His parents raised him as a Catholic and he spoke and prayed as a Christian. He believed that the Bible represented the history of mankind. Nothing in his rhetoric spoke against Christian faith. Although he did have a few Christian enemies, they posed a political danger, not a religious threat.

Hitler allowed the destruction of Jewish synagogues and Temples. But if for one moment you still harbor the thought that Hitler acted against Christ belief, then ask yourself why he never ordered the destruction of Catholic or Protestant churches? Why did he not prevent his Nazis from worshiping in Christian churches, but instead encouraged it? And why did he spend so much time in trying to strengthen and unite the Christian denominations into one Christian Reich Church?

Even acknowledging Hitler's most atrocious acts as sinful cannot exclude him from Christianity. Tenets of Christian belief allege that all people sin and only redemtion through faith in Jesus Christ can absolve them.

There is a test, and hitler flunked it. Hitler violated everything Christ stood for. Christianity in it's correct form stands against the things you say you reject, so why do you really attack it?

WTE

Even acknowledging Hitler's most atrocious acts as sinful cannot exclude him from Christianity. Tenets of Christian belief allege that all people sin and only redemtion through faith in Jesus Christ can absolve them.

A Christian, therefore, can never use sin alone, regardless of how horrible or atrocious, as an argument against Hitler. Clearly, Hitler's own words reveal his Christian faith, and Christians must, by their own tenant and upheld by their Bible, not to judge others.

Under all possible conditions then, Hitler lived and acted as a Christian and anyone who does not think so can only redefine Christianity from their own ignorance and denial.

Deliberate sin shows a lack of conversion. Deliberately murdering 11 million people shows a lack of conversion. And without that heart converstion Hitler was no Christian.

Nothing else matters to God, as Christ teaches my religion.

You simply aren't qualified as a closet muslim to decide what my religion has to accept.

Hitler was evil, this kind of evil if you want to pin any ethical standards on him.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! **** is Forgiving, Merciful.

The word I blanked out, wasn't 'Christ'.

WTE

God is evil in the bible.
Hitler was a chirstian and nothing you say or any lies you spew will change that.

Nope, hitler was many things, but a Christian brother? Not even. The blood of 11 million victims cry out that you're wrong.

Yet there is a religion that has at it's core warlike teachings.

Why are you here at an anti-war site ignoring that war like teachings of that one religion?
Do you advocate this verse as acceptable?
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Yes, they suffered from sharia too, but Spain finally managed to throw them out.

Mikhail

Maybe "sharia" learned it from their half brothers that invented it well before the existance of Islam. After all, both half brothers call a man "Father" that cause he heard voices automatically thought that meant go kill a child, a Jewish custom at the time (that Israel still abides by it seems.) Islam IS NOT the originators of "stoning" folks to death for social crimes. Reread that Old Testament you adhere to and pay attention this time.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

It's not about perfect people, it's about a perfect God struggling to reach imperfect people.

And of course how does that fit into your paid comments here?

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

WTE

Why are you even on this site trolling?

Roger 166p • 20 minutes ago
People at anti-war are a different crowd, they just … well, they are what they are.

It's curious how little they know. That's a place where propagandists such as yourself are truly dangerous.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

"9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."

WTE

No more that what your religion teaches, and just because you say OT laws do not apply, they do because the earth is still here.

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Yes, because to muslims if you are born to a muslim father then you're considered muslim.

Can't they find better comments for you to post?

patriothere

No, because to christians, you always have a christian heritage, no matter what. It's been instilled in you at a young age. So hitler is always a christian deep down. He always has the instilled in him.

Even atheists will still have memories instilled in them of their prior religion.

It's, to use your words, "heritage". Your religion is what you were born into. If you were born into a mormon family, when you are young, the mormon religion is instilled in you. If both of your parents were baptist, then you would be baptist and have a baptist heritage.

Your islam is showing. Islam is the religion you are born into. Not Christianity, that's an individual choice. Hitler never made that choice.

Hitler was not a Christian because he never pretended to follow the teachings of Christ.

There is a Christian saying, God has no grandchildren in Heaven. (Either you decide for yourself or you're not there.)

patriothere

Your religion is what you are born into, There is no doubt that if you were born in saudi arabia you would have islam instilled in you at a young age, and even if you became an Atheist in your 30's or 40's, you would still have the memories and experiences of Islam instilled in you.

Just like if you were born into a jewish family, or a baptist family or a seventh day adventist family.

God has many grand children in heaven. He has great great great grand children. We are all children of god so of course god has grandchildren. We are all forgiven for our sins so we all go to heaven.

My point was, before you tried to derail it is that Hitler had a christian upbringing. Nothing can change that because he was rooted in it. You can be the hardest atheist in the world but you cannot take away the memories or the experiences instilled in you when you were younger.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. As a muslim hack paid troll it's all you can do to repeat the talking points. But it's wrong all the same.

And Hitler fails every test of a true conversion into Christianity. You see, you have to become converted into Christianity, there isn't any other way.

patriothere

You are born into a christian heritage. A Baptist background, a seventh day adventist heritage.

If you were born into a catholic family and you were baptized, received communion, confirmation and grow up to be an atheist. The background of the religion you had when you were a little kid is still instilled in you. It is a christian heritage.

Hitler had a Christian heritage. He was brought up in a christian setting. A christian environment.

Stalin was studying to be a priest, he had a christian heritage, a christian background. He was BORN into it. Karl Marx was a jew by birth but he had a lutheran christian background.

It is instilled in people when they are very young.

Your way is not the only way. Your evangelical way is not the only way. You are disrespecting all the catholics and all the baptists and all the seventh day adventists.

Are you baptized? You can't get into heaven if you're not baptized. You have to have communion. Have you had communion?

You would think so, but that's not what islam teaches, you might want to read about the Christian pastor almost executed because he converted to Christianity after being born into a muslim family and was declared apostate. http://www.inquisitr.com/327317/iranian-pastor-re…

That was a random comment not connected to the thread. So, since this is an anti-war site why do you ignore the religion with it's basic teachings of 'force and submission' and that is currently using warlike tactics to create a world wide empire (caliphate)?

WTE

You asked "What morals did I select that are wrong?" To which I replied "Lying, stealing, not loving your neighbor"

In the list of Christ's followers, there is nothing to indicate Hitler is part of that. We can agree he wanted the political force of the church as he seized power. But real Christians sufferedwhen they tried to lead him back to what Christ wanted, like Bon Hoeffer.

Of course He did. Only you muslims try to pretend Jesus was only a good man and prophet.

patriothere

You were born into a family that had a christian background. So even if you got older and decided to be an atheist you would still have the christian heritage instilled in you. I was born into a catholic family and baptized and received communion and I will always have those memories and experiences instilled into my brain and my being.

Just like if one was born into a baptist background or a seventh day adventist family. You were born, you were baptized, You were born into the christian faith. You had no choice in the matter.

Now my racial ancestors were probably indians worshipping sun gods until the conquistadors came and forced them to convert.

So, yes, Hitler had a christian heritage but as he got older, he renounced it and became interested in his racial ancestors pagan nordic aryan culture and customs.

If you had been born into a muslim family, you would be praying five times a day.

A Christian heritage doesn't mean you're considered Christian. Much of the post Christian Europe had this and nobody is stoned for being apostate.

I was not born into the Christian faith. I studied, decided then became a Christian. No one can decide but the convert.

And if the conquistadors went to Iran, then it wasn't because of the teachings of Christ, and will have to answer for that at the judgement. You do realize that the Christian faith had a reformation due to abuses? That's why it's not the violent faith it was at the time of the conquistadors.

Can you say that for islam? It seems every time people want to 'submit' better to allah it leans more towards the surah 9 mandates.

Well, you certainly don't seem to have a problem with the teachings of a certain religion that advocates warlike behavior. I find that strange for someone that keeps coming to post on an anit-war site.

A site dedicated to anti-imperialism and you don't mention the one religion fighting and killing to set up a world wide caliphate/empire.

WTE

Of course I have a problem with what they do. What you fail to understand is I havea problem with all religions

Both sides? Christians for defending themselves as muslims slaughter them? How does that imply both sides being guilty?

I'm anti war, so I'm going to suggest that if Christians lay down their arms and quit resisting they will be oppressed just as the Coptic Egyptians are. If the muslims laid down their arms and aggression there would be peace in the world.

WTE

Yeah blmae it all on the the muliums you giys have done no wrong. It is that kind of arrogance why you morons have been fighting for thousands of years. How about we get rid of religion all together. As long as we have people believing in different false idols we will have war.

Why are you being so nice tro me on here and being a hate filled bigot to me on frontpage?

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

I attack the teachings that lead to violence, that's not bigotry. Thats' common sense and decency.

And you can't show spiritual events leading to changed lives isn't real. You can't. So, you change the language, even if it can't be scientifically proven the life changed in my link was real, and you can't deny it.

WTE

for you to attack other religions that believe different than you do, that's bigotry

The early organization of Rome was a traditional monarchy but the last king of Rome, Tarquinius Superbus, was overthrown and a republic established, in 509 BCE.

It was under the period of the republic that Rome grew to be a mighty civilization. The keys to that growth of civilization include the institutions of law. Secular law. Romans did not make any attempt to infer that their laws were ordained by their gods, or even that their gods cared unduly what the people did. Laws were instituted for the good of the people. The laws came from the senate and people of Rome, and it was the people and their government which applied that law. Government under law, government of the people by the people, for the people. It is a formula that rarely fails to deliver progress.

The fact that hitler was Christian?
That's propaganda not supported by the texts you used.

It's not backed by the teachings of Christ or the scriptures for the modern church.

Why you consider it a fact is curious at best. Hitlers actions can also lead one to the opinion that Hitler admired islam and followed the actions approved of mohammed, even if he kept it quiet. He was none to use spiritualists, a teaching clearly never taught in the Bible.

So, just your pretending it was a fact clearly may be denied by thinking people.

No He slaughtered them because he didn't care about the law of God, he didn't care about following Christ's teachings and it was politically convenient to find a scape goat like he did with the Gypsies and other societal outcasts.

Hitler was many things, but a converted Christian following the teachings of Christ he wasn't. He would have been mroe at home with the religion that teaches this.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

patriothere

No, I'm pretty sure they want WW3. The tomatoes seem to care for its cheese on my taco.

And to think just yesterday on another site you were not happy with censorship.

17 hours ago @ Frontpage Magazine – White Genocide in Sout… · 5 replies · 0 points
"I am a firm believer in Freedom of Speach. I realize frontpage is owned and they can delete as they want. While the comment you reported is worthless I will defend his righ to say it even if I disagree with it (which I do disagree with it) but censorship is not the answer IMO"

When you attack Christianity founded on peace and you ignore the war like teachings of another religion I have to wonder what your agenda is, and how ignoring violence fits in with the purpose of this site.

WTE

I am not happy with it. Of course I am also not reporting you and will even defennd your right to spew your hate speechs. However as on frontoage, anti-war owns this site and can delete what it wants. What I find funny is when you r are noticed by the admin you tone changes. You're a phony

And I'm so glad you're against all religion, does that mean I can count on your scrutiny to be just as harsh against islam as it is against the religion of peace?

I just think it's horrible that one religion teaches war like tactics as it's core teachings and to see that played out daily – yet avoid your notice.

Eyes_Open

RELIGION OF PEACE

Ha. Was Jesus and the fig tree a lesson in peace, no it was a lesson in obedience. Was throwing the business men out of the courtyard a lesson in peace, no it was a lesson in socialism and how to use violence in class warfare. And that is just two examples of Jesus's version of "peace", his followers did worse. And those that have followed since have gotten MUCH worse. The only peace that can be found in that religion is the peace that comes from obedience, just like Islam.

Ricky Michael

fig tree was a lesson on bring forth fruit…no fruit then cut down.

The money changers had no place in the temple. House of worship, not house of commerce.

your bias shows thru in your comments, you just don't like the belief system so you find fault. Both these two arguments are "straw man" ones. If you studied the verse surrounding these two events honestly, you would not use them like this.

Eyes_Open

And your bias shows as you try in vain to make excuses for his actions. Take the fig tree example, he knew figs weren't in season, he knew there was none on the tree, but he hungered, so he commanded the tree to bare fruit, and when it didn't go against nature he destroyed it in anger. Maybe you should read a little closer and with a more open mind.

And "money changers" are the name they gave to merchants, which were not restricted from being in the temple. They were providing an important service to the pilgrim, as your god demanded offerings and it would be very hard to journey a pilgrimage and still keep the live offerings in good enough shape to use as an offering. Besides all the extra food and water that would have to be carried, and these were poor people. The sensible thing to do would be to bring gold and purchase the offerings in the temple, which is what they were doing. But apparently this wasn't enough hardship to place on the faithful pilgrims to show their obedience. They would have to drag their stock with them.

You should reread Matthew, Jesus had quite a few bad days in his telling.

If Jesus commanded you to bring forth fish from the lake, but no fish were biting, would you be ok with being cursed by him for your failed efforts? If you ran a car wash next to a church, and he threw you out and brought your structure down around you for washing cars of the church goers so they didn't have to do it for themselves on Sunday morning, would you feel it was right to have you business destroyed? When you were just trying to help.

Ricky Michael

All just your opinion on the events. Jesus, who is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, can do as he pleases without your consent or permission. If he is in fact, who he and I claim him to be, then by that in itself is justication for his actions.

If he is not who he claims to be, then and only then would you have a good argument. From my POV, he can do as he pleases and its just too bad for those who do not like it.

Eyes_Open

So your blind faith would have you follow him regardless of who he kills, how many he kills, or for what reason. You have told me that you are a scholarly man, that is an acceptance of ignorance to justify any action, not what a scholarly man would accept.

And these aren't my opinions, they are the "facts" written down supposedly by his direct followers.

Your blind faith in paganism shows an acceptance of the warlike actions and violence of previous pagan cultures, like the human sacrifices of the aztecs.

And no person was harmed with that run in with the fig tree.

You harmed more wheat by eating bread.

Anti-war teachings may not make sense, but Christ never advocated violence. You said something about islam and it's peace. I'm wondering just where islam has forced peace? In Darfur? On the Copts in Egypt? On the Christians in Nigeria?

Eyes_Open

I do not have blind faith, so you are wrong in every everything you presuppose. And even if I did, it wouldn't be the one pagan religion you seem to be so enamored with. I guess you like the Aztecs because they remind you of the "good old days" when Christianity could get away with killing people of different faiths.

You keep saying that the fig tree is a parable, as such it is being used to illiterate that if you don't do what Jesus says, regardless of true nature, he will kill you.

I said nothing about Islam and it's peace, you are trying to make things up again just because you have no leg to stand on.

And what word was translaated into fear?With all due respect mr wicca who defends islam, fear means a very strong respect with reverence.

Any otherthings you wantto twist and try to misrepresent?

Eyes_Open

That is a direct quote from your holy scriptures, so I assume you mean to say that your scriptures are mistranslations. But yet you believe in them knowing that they are mistranslated? I guess that makes it easier to twist them to anything YOU like.

Ricky Michael

You are so very smart yet you fail to see the truth.

For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
1 Corinthians 1:18-20

Eyes_Open

I could easily say the same of you. For what you call the truth is just myth that you choose to believe because you have been told to by so many others that you aren't able to see anything else. I came to the truth before my grandmother ever mentioned the old ways to me, as is the custom with those in my tradition. Can you HONESTLY say that you would have the exact same beliefs if someone hadn't fed them to you at some point in your life?

Your opinion of him doesn't jive with the way he really was. If he had been like you say, then he would have destroyed the village in this passage.

54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”[e]

55 But He turned and rebuked them,[f] and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
Luke 9

WTE

Have you noticed that in many cases Jesus is childish and emotional, rather than thoughtful? People who act like this are jerks. Here's an example from Matthew 18:7-9:

"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
This statement is totally ridiculous on several different levels. First, something like a hand cannot "cause you to sin" — your brain causes "sin." Every intelligent person knows that. Therefore, gouging your eye out or cutting your hand off is useless. If you have a problem with "sin" and you are going to amputate something to solve it, you would need to amputate your brain, since that is where all "sin" originates.

No, it's what islam demands. Our lives do become God's when a person gives their heart to Christ, but instead of demanding death He sets us free from eternal death. He doesn't demand we do the suicide dance thing.

You notice only one of these religions is using suicide bombers?

Eyes_Open

Oh, yes, and only suicide bombings are evil, all the other murders, by gun or remote bombs, done by Christian extremist are signs that Christianity is a much better religion. or just more cowardly.

It's not?
Saying this is not defending and putting it in a good light by advocating it as a solution?
Really?
1 hour ago @ News From Antiwar.com – Israeli Leaders Dial B… · The only peace that can be found in that religion is the peace that comes from obedience, just like Islam.

I wouldn't want to intrude on your family dynamics.
With all due respect of course.

Ricky Michael

I'm going to respond to your last comment here so I can read it, getting too skinny down below.

Perhaps if you would be honest in accessing the way the Bible is written, with all types of literary technique, you would finally "get it." Jesus, in the Bible in some cases uses Hyperbole to make a point. When you refuse to accept the way the literature is written, you make yourself look foolish making statements that you just made. I understand what you are doing, just disagreeing with me because you will never, ever, admit that the Bible or Jesus has anything worth while to say.

Hal

You wonder what deal with the devil type was made to get the dogs called off?

Mike

I really hope America stops letting the Zionist warmongers in Israel from getting America into illegal wars.This does not mean America and others expecially Israel are not doing many things that break every Law in the American constitution and international and genva laws.People are sick of seeing people on both sides die in unessasary and illegal wars for prifit,along with all the suicides from young men that are tramatized by the things the've seen and done in what they no were not just wars.One step is good,but we need to see much more like no more drones in countrys murdering people instead of giving them fair trials even Americans.To make all things fair for all people America and the world have far to go,but America stopping an Illegal military attack on Iran is a good start,let's just hope it's not talk and a lie before an attack that will start WW3.

for sight

Does not anyone get it. Israel knows that Obama fears an Israeli attack before the elections. Now what do you think Israel will get from Obama for Not ATTACKING IRAN BEFORE THE ELECTIONS?
How much money, weapons and vetos have been promised. This was no American victory, this was just Israel's way to extort more form the US, and we took the bait. As Mitt said, "It must be cultural"
Israel will take the booty, and after the elections still attack Iran and involve the US anyway.
Consider: What did Obama promise for a two month freeze on settlements? THE F35S FREE, and that was just for a two months freeze befor mid term elections. Boys, this is going to be expensive!!

Neil

Roger is quite the man about hasbara…but not an inkling of truth to be found regarding Obama, Iran, or history for that matter…if one is a supporter of state sponsered terrorism they need to look no further than to sheeple who blindly support the terrorist state of Israel, and the myopic minions who defend it. Israel will either implode, or will be stopped with overwhelming force by the world community, because it knows that Israel's government is both unstable, and suicidal.

Mikhail

Neil….well said. And to speak "Muslim" of Obama who claims "The Greater Chicago Jewish community" as his "adopted parents"………… You would think they would obtain a higher intellect for their "Hasbara" program. Roger's extreme hatred belies his claims of Christianity…….and his so-called adherence to the teachings of Jesus. Israel will eventually cease to exist as Jewish through simple demographics. More Jews leave Israel than immigrate there. At current rate, the Arab/Palestinian citizenry will simply displace Jewish Israelis as the voting majority. Maybe then American taxpayers can finally cease supporting a nation of reigious extremists bent on distruction of their half brothers family………at America's expense.