*sigh* Theirs lots I need from the dailies for. That isn't the point however. Granting tabards that grants EQUAL REP GAIN TO ALL ACTIVITIES doesn't make one option better and hence FORCED than the other. I mean you basically admitted. YOu said of course I wouldn't do dailies if the reward wasn't good, so that just means it's forced. It's not because the content is enjoyable and you like doing them but because THEIRS SUCH A HUGE CARROT. Well ive got news for you dungeons are no fun without rewards for your efforts. Yea yea yea tell me how they're still rewarding because they aren't. It's a big rng crap fest. At least with the fucking daily quest it isn't a huge rng crap fest.

Look I thought my suggestion was reasonable. It doesn't make one playstyle better than the other. The tbarads wil grant you rep wether you do dailies or do dungeons I don't care. I'd love to find reward in LFR but I probably never will. It's apparently to hard now (yet another barrier to access) and is also totally RNG driven. The only way to safely and assure that at some point I will get to upgrade my guy and make him stronger and powerful is through valor gear which means it's currently to good.

I see alot of people in the world to. none of them are stopping to smell the roses. They're on their way to do dailies and then back to org or two moons or whatever. In either case nobody is soaking in the world they are more or less just completing whatever task is REQUIRED of them.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 07:23 AM ----------

I'm sure a vocal minority of you people did on forums. Just like the same people who were calling out for harder dungeons in cataclysm. You recall how that worked out don't you?

No, just because I wouldn't do the dailies if it wasn't rewarded it's not forced on me. That's like saying you're forced to eat something that is tasty, because why the hell would you eat a pizza if it wasn't tasty? Why would you do anything, for enjoyment, if there was no sense of reward from it?

Dungeons are a big RNG crap fest? Excuse me for a second.... WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT! Was that loud enough for you? Just because you can't buy all the gear you need from vendors, that doesn't mean it's a worse system. Buying all the gear you need, is a bad system.

And they are really sodding rewarding, you think 463 gear isn't good enough? What the hell, what kind of gear are you expecting? 500 epics, for what exactly? Oh yeah, farming heroics. That's so sodding hard... And of course random people are going to struggle with LFR at start, they don't even know that fire burns! Wait 4 weeks and you can afk in there again.

The worst moment in the history of his game for me, was a few nights ago when I was going to work on leveling an alt. Then I remembered I forgot to do my golden lotus dailies. Since I didn't want to be another day behind, I went and did that instead. Having your play time dictating by artifical content gating is a poor decision.

"Since I didn't want" being the operative phrase there. Personally, why not go and level the alt. It's not like in 2 weeks you'll be overly remorseful that you did that. It's too bad that this was the 'worst moment in the history of the game' for you personally but really...no one will either know or care in a very short while. Play the game, do what you like, have fun.

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Sturgeon's Law states that 90% of everything is crap. When posting try and be in the 10% once in a while. It makes it better for everyone.

It' simple. Tie rep to tabards EXCLUSIVELY. And make it so that you get rep from almost every activity. Dailies. Dungeons. Pvp. Pet battles. Scenarios. regular quests. Adjusted and alloted for time invested. That makes it even as hell. If you like dailies go ahead and do them you still get rep and gold. If you like dungeons go ahead and do them gear and rep. Pvp. Pet battles. Whatever. That makes rep as painless as possible and makes every activity double rewarding.

Dungeons are already rewarding enough, they don't need to give rep as well.

"If you like dailies go ahead and do them you still get rep and gold."
If you do dungeons you already get VP, JP, gear, and gold. Oh and possibly enchanting mats, and BoE epic drops.

You want rep in dungeons? Then I want 463 gear from dailies. I actually don't even want that, but hey it would give this option you admire so much! Hell, let's give out 463 gear for pet battles as well, options are good right?! Next we can let critters drop Raiding gear, no problems, options.

"Since I didn't want" being the operative phrase there. Personally, why not go and level the alt. It's not like in 2 weeks you'll be overly remorseful that you did that. It's too bad that this was the 'worst moment in the history of the game' for you personally but really...no one will either know or care in a very short while. Play the game, do what you like, have fun.

Except that by their very nature of gating, skipping rep dailies puts you behind-often with no way of making up for it.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 03:31 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Chaozu

Dungeons are already rewarding enough, they don't need to give rep as well.

"If you like dailies go ahead and do them you still get rep and gold."
If you do dungeons you already get VP, JP, gear, and gold. Oh and possibly enchanting mats, and BoE epic drops.

You want rep in dungeons? Then I want 463 gear from dailies.

But you can't spend the vp without doing dailies. You can get valor gear without dungeons, but you can't get valor gear without dailies.

Originally Posted by flick86

It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.

No, just because I wouldn't do the dailies if it wasn't rewarded it's not forced on me. That's like saying you're forced to eat something that is tasty, because why the hell would you eat a pizza if it wasn't tasty? Why would you do anything, for enjoyment, if there was no sense of reward from it?

Dungeons are a big RNG crap fest? Excuse me for a second.... WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT! Was that loud enough for you? Just because you can't buy all the gear you need from vendors, that doesn't mean it's a worse system. Buying all the gear you need, is a bad system.

And they are really sodding rewarding, you think 463 gear isn't good enough? What the hell, what kind of gear are you expecting? 500 epics, for what exactly? Oh yeah, farming heroics. That's so sodding hard... And of course random people are going to struggle with LFR at start, they don't even know that fire burns! Wait 4 weeks and you can afk in there again.

Your pizza analogy is not quite accurate. I mean if I had two food options and Pizza was the tastier of course you'd take pizza. It tastes pizza. It's not that your froced into any one thing, your compelled into one path because it's better than the other. If Pizza wasn't tastier then the other food you had to choose from then you could say it was an equal choice but since Pizza is tastier than a shit sandwhich you take Pizza. dailies are pizza, dungeons are shit sandwhiches.

World of Warcraft became the huge success it was by moving away from bad rng systems. If I wanted that I'd go play torchlight. I never "bought" all the gear I needed in any expansion, that is just hyperbole. I did however buy pieces to combat the rng in dungeons

No they are not rewarding. By any measure. Compared to what you had before most certainly. People leave them after the boss doesn't drop the gear they need. They are not rewarding. They don't drop sufficient quantities of either currency for gear and that gear is less then what you'd get in the dungeon anyway. Dailies are far more rewarding because they will eventually lead to a path that gives you much greater gear and that path is all but certain and not subject to rng. How bout this every daily quest has a chance to give you max rep or zero rep. Or some random number in between. Sounds good doesn't it

I will be able to afk in lfr in no time I'm sure. As soon as they nerf the crap out of it. People failed at DS right up until the end cataclysm. I'm not sure how or why you think putting 25 players together and expecting them to be co-ordinated is a brilliant idea.

Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 07:37 AM.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Until its actually implemented in the game, it's just an idea on Blizzard's plate.

And I'm not really sold on the idea either to be honest. Upgrading gear is nice and all but I've had these same crappy shoulders for awhile now and nothing is dropping. I want to buy a new piece. Upgrading gear is fine but it's not rewarding as getting a new piece. Blizzard is all about the cock blocking or diverting reward this expansion.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

Your pizza analogy is not quite accurate. I mean if I had two food options and Pizza was the tastier of course you'd take pizza. It tastes pizza. It's not that your froced into any one thing, your compelled into one path because it's better than the other. If Pizza wasn't tastier then the other food you had to choose from then you could say it was an equal choice but since Pizza is tastier than a shit sandwhich you take Pizza. dailies are pizza, dungeons are shit sandwhiches.

World of Warcraft became the huge success it was by moving away from bad rng systems. If I wanted that I'd go play torchlight. I never "bought" all the gear I needed in any expansion, that is just hyperbole. I did however buy pieces to combat the rng in dungeons

No they are not rewarding. By any measure. Compared to what you had before most certainly. People leave them after the boss doesn't drop the gear they need. They are not rewarding. They don't drop sufficient quantities of either currency for gear and that gear is less then what you'd get in the dungeon anyway. Dailies are far more rewarding because they will eventually lead to a path that gives you much greater gear and that path is all but certain and not subject to rng. How bout this every daily quest has a chance to give you max rep or zero rep. Or some random number in between. Sounds good doesn't it

I will be able to afk in lfr in no time I'm sure. As soon as they nerf the crap out of it. People failed at DS right up until the end cataclysm. I'm not sure how or why you think putting 25 players together and expecting them to be co-ordinated is a brilliant idea.

Wow, so you always eat pizza for breakfast huh? I mean it tastes better than whatever sandwich you would otherwise eat, right?

No, despite what you belive the moving away from RNG is not what made WoW great. If that was true then either WoW wouldn't have any players left or there wouldn't be any RNG left, yet I see lots of it, even in Cata.

Yes they aren't as rewarding as in Cataclysm, THAT'S BECAUSE, Cataclysm gave you free gear for zero effort! It was TOO rewarding! It was a TERRIBLE system. This great gear you talk about from dailies, require a lot of VP, which means it takes a lot of EFFORT (take notice of that word because I don't think you know what it means), and it's still worse than raiding gear.

Yep more screaming and howling of abuse at blizzard from the howler monkies.

Yuup. And if and when they nerf all this bs into the ground a month or so from now invalidating all that "hard work" what do you think will happen? this system should have never left beta like it was

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

I believe that compensation comes in the form of gold, valor, rep, increased chance at raid loot, and whatever sense of accomplishment and enjoyment a person gets out of it. I mean, if we're being honest, nothing in this game gives "real" compensation, other than [B]the thrill of pvp, the elation at downing difficult bosses, a social network/B], enjoyment of a video game, laughter at trolls, and a sense of accomplishment when I get a new achievement or gain another level of reputation. Also, whatever sexual pleasure people get out of Moonguard. :P

i would basically aim at the highlighted. Ingame elements like gold / equip are just tools and it really doesn't matter how much you have as long it is enough for what you want to do. The daily system is the devs saying "invest alot of extra time in our game and you may get things faster"
If you really follow trough with this it will double your playtime/week as a raider which is another fuck you to time-restricted players
and also a bad time investment in general as doing those dailys wont double your loot chance while it does double your playtime

And I'm not really sold on the idea either to be honest. Upgrading gear is nice and all but I've had these same crappy shoulders for awhile now and nothing is dropping. I want to buy a new piece. Upgrading gear is fine but it's not rewarding as getting a new piece. Blizzard is all about the cock blocking or diverting reward this expansion.

No, they are all about rewarding effort instead of handing out gear on a silver platter. The fact that you even want to buy your gear shows that further...

Cata didn't give you free gear for zero effort. Those roics were quite challenging for LFD groups for quite some time. Stop skewing history for the sake of your own preference.

There is nothing lazy about wanting, after 10 dungeon runs that dropped absolutely nothing, to turn around and use a currency gained to purchase a piece of gear. If anything, the guy who gets lucky and gets all his gear in the first couple runs is the lazy one, by that flawed logic.

Last edited by Shambulanced; 2012-10-10 at 07:42 AM.

Originally Posted by flick86

It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.

I think the system is great for me. I love doing dailys and running scenarios and dungeons. But not everyone does.

I dunno, this kind of causes a bit of a dilemma. If we made tabards that gave rep, we'd have Cataclysm again. Everyone would stay in the city, run dungeons, and that would be it. If dailys remain the only way to gain rep, then people who don't want to do dailys will not have access to VP gear.

Honestly, I think the BEST solution for everyone is to just not have gear that is hidden behind reputation. JP gear AND VP gear should be available at any point, as long as you have the points to purchase them. For people who enjoy doing dailys, the various factions will still have various recipes and schematics and, of course, the mounts and pets. People who are interested in those things will still do the dailys, and people who aren't won't need to. They won't have any right to complain about not having a Shado-pan tiger, any more than non-raiders have a right to complain about not having the mount from doing Heroic Dragon Soul achievements.

Leave the valor gains in the dailys, because getting those and upgrading gear is still important to gamers who don't raid.

Wow, so you always eat pizza for breakfast huh? I mean it tastes better than whatever sandwich you would otherwise eat, right?

No, despite what you belive the moving away from RNG is not what made WoW great. If that was true then either WoW wouldn't have any players left or there wouldn't be any RNG left, yet I see lots of it, even in Cata.

Yes they aren't as rewarding as in Cataclysm, THAT'S BECAUSE, Cataclysm gave you free gear for zero effort! It was TOO rewarding! It was a TERRIBLE system. This great gear you talk about from dailies, require a lot of VP, which means it takes a lot of EFFORT (take notice of that word because I don't think you know what it means), and it's still worse than raiding gear.

No because some days Pizza is less tasty then the other options. Dailies are never less tasty currently. I mean it's a bad analogy because if Pizza paid me out in the real work equivalent of rep (street cred?) I would probably always eat pizza.

Actually yes it is. The general point was that WoW became a much more progressive game over time by introducing things like gear currencly, like being more friendly for solo play, like looking for dungeon and looking for raid. It was moving away steadily from the purist mmo games until some dude decided to make dungeons hard and regressed the game and well we all know how that worked out.

Cataclysm was maybe a bit to rewarding but this system is to unrewarding. Dungeons suck balls in Mists and people are already leaving them and not doing them. I'm not sure why you think dailies take more effort then dungeons. I mean they really don't at all. Their probably easier and I can do them myself and not really on 4 other people. What they require is patience and dedication. Which is poor design.

Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 07:45 AM.

The hammer comes down:

Originally Posted by Osmeric

Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

WoW is a game based on grinding. You farm raids for gear, only to be able to farm the next raid for new gear, to be able to farm the exact same raid on heroic difficulty for new gear to.... you get the point. Whining about having to do 7 dailes everyday, to optimize your chances to progress, is just plain stupid. There's a reason why guilds have different status in forms of raiding. If you don't want to do the dailies, join a guild thats not an extremely hardcore one, and the problem is solved.
I really just see this whine as you being a lootwhore. If you have the time to be in a hardcore raiding guild, you should have the 20 minutes a day to do dailies.

Yuup. And if and when they nerf all this bs into the ground a month or so from now invalidating all that "hard work" what do you think will happen? this system should have never left beta like it was

Your hard effort will always only keep you up to date, if you stop putting in effort, you will stop being rewarded, and left behind. It's a lot like when companies sell products, you can buy a new game at the release day when it's more expensive, or you can wait five years and buy it a lot cheaper. The reason people actually buy it at release day is because playing it when it's new is a reward of itself.