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I think that he really wants to get a Grayskull, but was burned on the antics from the Hoverboard pre-order.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. Sadly some people here seem incapable of realising that not everything is black and white.

Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

Understandable, but I don't think that stuff will happen here.

1) The Four Horsemen aren't going anywhere
2) MOTUC is the flagship line of Mattycollector.com

The thing is that that's what those of us who preordered the Hoverboard thought the same thing about that too. After having been burned once on giving Matty the benefit of the doubt; I want a straight up answer from Mattel, stating that they're not going to pull the exact same design team switcheroo they pulled on the Hoverboard on Castle Grayskull.

Originally Posted by melmoth666

Not trying to be a jerk, but IS there a back-to-the-future.org? I didn't even order a hoverboard and I feel wronged by "hoverboard gate" because so many threads on HE-MAN.org are now full of hoverboard discussions.

There's a thread on therpf.com discussing it in its entirety.

Originally Posted by mjw41

Yes I am 100% Sure and to back up my Statement that the Four Horsemen are Sculpting Castle Grayskull here is the message from the thread The Four Horsemen started.

~SNIP~

That only tells us the state of play now - not down the track after the proeorder period and Mattel has people locked-in to buying one. As much as I have no doubt that the Four Horsemen want to do this from start to finish; ultimately it's Mattel's call as to whether they're working on this for the duration of the design stage- not theirs.

All it takes is some high enough up exec in Mattel holding the purse strings, to decide that Castle Grayskull isn't "profitable enough" to warrant the Horsemen on it and all the passion the Horsemen have in the world wont change them being replaced with a low grade in-house design team working on it. This was what went down with the Hoverboard (their better in-house designers were pulled from it) and until I get some official statement from Mattel stating that the Four Horsemen will be the design team on this for the duration; I'm not making the mistake of presuming anything again.

Originally Posted by orbles

I know that Mattel produced the hover board, but it is not the same design team as MOTUC is it? If not, then you cant really compare the two can you? If you can, then I can say with pretty good confidence that CG will be awesome, because Mattel has made some pretty awesome Barbies.

You seem to have missed the point here. There's more than one group of designers "in house" with Mattel. Initially, Mattel had a great design team working on the Hoverboard (so great ironically that the initial version shown at NYTF is vastly superior to what we have now) - much like we have the 4H touted to do CG now. The problem is that after the preorder period, Mattel took their better design guys and put them on retail lines, leaving it with a vastly inferior design team.

My fear that's a hurdle to me preordering is that they'll pull a similar stunt and remove the 4 Horsemen from this after the preorder period (remember, the 4H have been shifted from Matty projects before due to cost issues).

Originally Posted by Bonehead

I seriously think, or at least hope, that this will be just like the Club thermometers earlier in the year that "magically" jumped on the last day. By holding out on updating the thermometer, Mattel thinks they will get a surge in sales from people who "cave in" at the last minute and they are probably right.

Contrary to what people might think, I'd also like to see this happen so the deadline blows out, as Scott is apparently on annual leave right now, so I'm not likely to get things clarified before the deadline.

What I'm acutely aware of is that Scott's PR skills aren't always the best. So the canned spin I've gotten is just as likely to be Scott badly answering what should have been a simple confirmation of things set in stone, as it is him being evasive on orders by upper management. However I simply don't trust Mattel enough too make that gamble.

The deadline blowing out would mean that Scott would return from annual leave before the preorder period ends and hopefully I can get the clarification I need to feel comfortable with going ahead and preordering one.

Originally Posted by Jinxieman

I don't think providing Bowspearer with "facts" will do anything to quench his rant...

On the contrary, if Mattel can guarantee that there are no dodgy switcheroos which will take place after the preorder period, my reservations with this go right out the window and I preorder.

Originally Posted by Jinxieman

Besides, I'm really confused Bowspearer, are you trying to convince others not to preorder the Castle or are you trying to justify your reason for not??? Because whenever someone counters your argument you come back with a new argument.

My issue and stance hasn't changed. The problem is that people keep trying to argue points that are irrelevant to that issue. People can scream til the cows come home that the Four Horsemen are working on this now and that everything has been promised now in terms of features.

The problem is that the exact same thing happened in terms of Hoverboard promises - only for it all to be thrown out the window when the preorder period ended and I have yet to see anything from Mattel explicitly stating that the same thing wont happen here.

Originally Posted by Jinxieman

The Hoverboard and the Castle are two very different things. Hoverboard = Movie prop based off actual movie props and very easy to mess up colors on decals, missing Velcro, and misplaced screws. Castle Grayskull = Toy based off multiple previous incarnations and heavily influenced by the toy prototype with artistic leeway in sculpt, color, paint apps and content.

So you're saying that the Ghostbusters figures were the same quality when the in house teams took over them as compared to when the Four Horsemen were doing them? That's the worry with Castle Grayskull, that they decide that Castle Grayskull isn't "profitable" enough to justify this, and they take the Horsemen off the project and put one of their cheaper in house teams on it. Remember that for Mattel, profitable=retail lines.

Originally Posted by Jinxieman

Toyguru has already said the castle will include all elements included in the b-sheet and hopefully more, and the 4 Horseman already confirmed they are sculpting it. The team behind the Hoverboard and the team behind the castle are different teams! All your concerns have been addressed! Lets move on and encourage everyone to preorder what is sure to be the most awesome piece of awesomeness that will be included in any toy collection!!!

Again, that says nothing about Mattel throwing out the game plan and changing it completely after the preorder period when people are locked in to getting one.

Originally Posted by Jinxieman

Very different animals that are NOT in the same zoo! They are on different continents!

Analogously speaking, you're dead wrong. They're both very different animals, I agree. However figuratively speaking, they share the same zookeeper (Mattel), are in the same Zoo (mattycollector.com) and face the same animal husbandry issues (design teams being pulled and switched, quality dropping, etc). It's that figurative animal cruelty and neglect which is the issue here.

The only thing they have in common are they are both pre-orders and they are both sold through Mattycollectors.com.

They also have in common the Same Brand Manager, Digital river, and broken promises. Scott said in this video that there would be a lenticular Hologram sticker on the board, and there is none. This is a fairly important part of the Hoverboard, since it is mostly meant for display. So how can you be sure of anything he says or promises until the final Castle comes out?

Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

The only way Mattel will be able to restore any goodwill is to have an impeccable 2013 with no QC problems, Digital River shenanighans or screwy creative decisions. That's too soon to sell fans on the Castle.

And what in Matty's entire history has ever given you reason that they will change their pattern of complete ineptness and accomplish such a feat in 2013? Wait, you were saying that they would have to accomplish the impossible to get people to trust them with this preorder now... I see. Well, I still say that the "MySubscriptions Page" that has been promised for years, will not be up before the January 2013 items ship. Anyone want to make any friendly wagers on this? PM me! Setting up a page like this would take any e-tailer or web site engineer no more than 2 months to iron out, even taking into consideration numerous billing and internal site logistics issues, but they haven't been able to do this for more than a year after they said they would, even though it would have saved them hundreds of subs from cancelling due to credit card and address changes. Lets not forget that just making this page should not have even been necessary, but for the fact that Digital river was never even meant to sell physical product much less a subscription that would need to bill over the time of a cc expiration.

Now that that rant is over, I am going to order at least one Castle, but all of this business with the Hover Board and everything else with Matty's history has me really on the fence whether or not to order multiples. We are talking more than an average car payment for each one here. I just don't think their promise of a photo figure checklist has me any keener to trust them with anymore money than for one Castle, which is ALL Matty's own fault.

...the SEVERE slowdown in the number of preorder's placed now on, has me more than a little concerned with us still needing 29% sales to hit the minimum goal.

Do you personally think that someone... somewhere... will place a SUPER large order at the last minute an make up 4-to-6 marks? As thats ALOT of $$$ !

Do you think that the general MOTU community seems almost too confident that we will make the deadline and minimum Mattel demands in the sales numbers?

Personal thoughts or opinions on the matter anyone/everyone??

I honestly think the big problem is that Matty's PR approach is its own worst enemy. Sure, some people will be far too burned to trust them again - that's to be expected if you're going to be realistic.

However people are on the fence because of how they've handled preorders of high-ticket items, and how they've handled MOTUC.

Honestly, if they came out tomorrow with a convincing and straight up statement which made it clear that they've learned their lesson from the fiasco of the Hoverboard, that things have been completely costed (it's one thing to claim everything in a list of features will be there when you can ultimately hide behind a disclaimer which says you're not bound to that on a product page- it's another to credibly be able to demonstrate you've costed everything) and some credible evidence of QC improvements where Castle Grayskull would be concerned (including possibly statements from the production heads); I genuinely believe people would leap on grabbing at least one of them.

Steps like that would address people's concerns in a constructive manner, give them the impression they're being listened to, and with reasonable explanations and get people off the fence - maybe even swaying people who appear to be on the other side of a burned bridge. Sadly and ironically as I said earlier, Mattel (or at least Scott), appears far more interested in deflective spin for the most part, than leveling with people, which just alienates people further.

How did they handle the PK Meter and Ghost trap? Those were pretty big ticket items... were they preorder?

I don't remember hearing any weeping and gnashing of teeth with those... It seemed that Matty did a GREAT job with THOSE items... Why can we not assume the same care to go towards grayskull?

Why do we always have to pull out the WORST examples of their business strategy... and forget all the GOOD things they sell us?

Originally Posted by Spitfire

How do you guys feel about CG containing both technology and magic accutrements? The filmation CG seemed to be more magical inside than the vintage playset which had more tech.
I kind of think of CG as where they stored the old magic power that caused problems in the past. Now the kingdom has moved toward using tech. So seeing a lot of tech inside the playsets throws me off. Would you guys like to see more magic related extras inside the playset? A balance?

For ME... MOTUC has always been about Nostalgia. I had the original castle grayskull when i was five years old and it was new on the shelves... nobody even HEARD of He'man when I had that castle...

I had it for a solid 20 years before the final pieces were lost/broke/stolen... But by then it was just a shell.

Seeing the computers and eleveators makes me giddy for accessories I had long forgotten about. I REALLY want them in there!!!

I think the PERFECT solution would be to make sure they are 'seperate' pieces... armor and computers that can be 'placed' in the castle wherever you want... or tossed to the side if you want a more 'magic' based castle.

I love filmation, and want a lot of the portals and gargoyles and things like that in there TOO... but for me it's always about nostalgia and I want as much of the 'original' castle to be included as possible.

^ Schadenfreude. They want to see it fail, so then they can feel self-important and turn round and say "Told you".

This guy gets it--^ People who incessently argue their point of not wanting something so intensely and often that it becomes like that religious guy on the corner holding a sign that says "THE END IS NIGH"- freaking everyone out- eventually become so much noise to the rest of us. Yes, we get that you feel butt-sore over the Hoverboard, the 2013 subs, and just about everything else. It's time to just settle down and give the stage to those who have something new to say or offer. Especially if that something new is support for Grayskull, because honestly that's the goal most of us are trying to get to. Not trying to dissuade honest debate, but the aforementioned folks aren't debating their bashing. They are just holding that sign and screaming from the rafters simply to be heard.... over... and over... and over. We hear ya. Now- as Paul McCartney would say- just let it be.

How did they handle the PK Meter and Ghost trap? Those were pretty big ticket items... were they preorder?

A) I wouldn't class the PKE meter as being a big ticket item and B) neither of them was a preorder deal.

Originally Posted by phantom1592

I don't remember hearing any weeping and gnashing of teeth with those... It seemed that Matty did a GREAT job with THOSE items... Why can we not assume the same care to go towards grayskull?

Different marketing animal. When you have people locked into a preorder; the incentive normally there for something to be done to the nth (ie with no presales; if you screw up, you're stuck with items that wont sell), goes right out the window. If the Hoverboard had've been an upfront sale rather than a preorder, then I highly doubt that what did go down with it, would have gone down.

Originally Posted by phantom1592

Why do we always have to pull out the WORST examples of their business strategy... and forget all the GOOD things they sell us?

I'm not saying Mattel hasn't also done some great work. However their history with preordered items; particularly, their incredibly recent history with preordered items, is a cause for concern with Castle Grayskull. It's certainly one which Mattel can effectively address, but it's one which they actually need to take the step of addressing here if they want to get people off the fence and into a preorder.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Krueger

^ Schadenfreude. They want to see it fail, so then they can feel self-important and turn round and say "Told you".

You mean as opposed to the "us and them" mentality? It's interesting that if you're not blindly rushing into this and have reservations that have yet to be properly addressed which keep you on the fence, then you must be wanting this to fail - judging by the posts of certain people here; no matter how many statements get made to the contrary. It's also highly telling that certain people seem more keen to gag and dismiss points rather than discuss them.

You mean several people insisting on trying to respond to points which don't even address what I'm bringing up to try and shut me up rather than discuss them - resulting in me restating my issue in the blindly optimistic hopes that rather than trying to merely gag and dismiss; they might actually respond to the issue at hand? That would require certain people moving past a "you're either with us or against us" mentality. While I'd like to see it happen, I'm not optimistic about it.

I'm sick of hearing about that hoverboard. Let's go back to Castle Grayskull. Here's a good news. A friend of mine who owns a store said to me he ordered A LOT of castle Grayskulls. He wouldn't say how many but that's really good to hear as many other stores have probably done the same!

Originally Posted by Emiliano

The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

Here's a good news. A friend of mine who owns a store said to me he ordered A LOT of castle Grayskulls. He wouldn't say how many but that's really good to hear as many other stores have probably done the same!

Bought five figures then called it quits. Then I heard about Castle Grayskull.
The possibility of this playset getting a 4H update was such a strong pull that I have tripled my collection in only a few weeks! I love my figures, but the centerpiece is definitely that Castle. I'll be heart-broken if it doesn't happen. What made the original line great was the combo of magnificently imagination-friendly design and the playability and poseability of the myriad playsets and vehicles.

It's just not He-Man without Castle Grayskull.

In my mind, the line itself is for naught without it's addition. These figures demand an equally fantastic playset to live in. You may have your doubts about Mattel's ability to pull it off. You may have misgivings when you look at some of the non-MOTU offerings that have gone awry. You may be all too aware of the frustrating QC issues with a few of the figures in your own collection.

Being a collector can sometimes be jading. We know too much about how these toys are made. The days when we were surprised when we discovered the latest toys on the shelf are long gone, sadly. As nearly as any line has renewed that nostalgic feeling of giddy excitement, MOTU Classics has done that the best. It's such a crime that these amazing toys will, for the most part, not find their ways into children's hands. I remember the visceral delight I had in these toys as a child.

Pre-ordering Castle Grayskull is a gamble. It's the same gamble you take when you re-up your yearly subscription. Every figure is an opportunity to succeed spectacularly or fail dreadfully. I believe the tremendous love and quality put into this line keeps us all here. At your core, if you didn't believe in and love this stuff, you would not be here.

I'm new here. I haven't been in the Classics game as long as most of you,but I cannot shed my enthusiasm for what could be a spectacular playset. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is in a big way. It's going to be great. It's going to be ridiculously amazing. Will it be perfect in everyone's eyes? Oh no. No. NO. But it's definitely the one shot we have at this kind of MOTU greatness. It will never come again. Nobody else will even try. If not now, then most certainly never. With those stakes, I'm willing to take the chance that it won't be perfect. I'm planning on it not being perfect. But it'll still be magnificent.

It'll still be glorious. For the feeling I'll have when the giant box is delivered, I open the box, pull out all the parts, and gingerly start putting together this mammoth toy, then start finding the best spots for my favorite figures, I'm in. 100%.

Oh my days! Ive been that worried that be Greyskull wont be made I desperately ordered another! Lord knows how im gonna paye for 2 postage to the UK but hey had to do my bit for me and the Org.ers. Please get this made guys! We have the Power

Yea I received the email too. I hope it does, why mention posters and box art if it doesnt? Its more important I think to gage interest in playsets. If this goes through with enough support then we have a real chance for future playsets like Snake Mountain, Fright Zone, Point Dread and the Eternian 3 towers..its really important every member orders.

if we meet the 11/12/12 minimum production goal date and production moves forward, every pre-order placed between 10/16/12 and 1/3/13 will include a first-ever exclusive Masters of the UniverseŽ Classics cross-sell poster!