I'll refrain from pointing out how the whole "paint it black" style started because po' boys like me had to actually build our "custom" bikes out of whatever crap parts we could find laying around. Since 30 year old paint and chrome don't always look the best you just rattle-canned it black instead....fast forward a few years and it's High Fashion..

The more it changes, the more it stays the same...

I always knew you were bourgoise!

__________________"Aid to the helpless indigent is civilized. Aid to the irresponsible is socially corrosive." ----- Schizuki (c. 2011)

Meh, change out the handlebars and you've got a softail custom (FXSTC) they've been selling for decades ... Willy G. is asleep at the wheel. Harley needs some healthy competition to spark real change.

Sadly that wont happen because of the "I buy a harley cuz its awezome!" Crowd that couldn't tell you WHY they bought a HD, most of them couldn't even tell you what else exists out there and will just insult non-HD as clones, rip offs, fakers or rice burners.

The sad truth is that like the Kodak company, who still thrives simply by name and the association with Kodachrome and their rule in photographic development, HD will simply exist because they are HD.

It doesn't matter if bikes are running on water, can never fall over or get 200 miles to the gallon with 300hp or do your dishes for you, there will be people that but a HD because of what it is.

The sad truth is that like the Kodak company, who still thrives simply by name and the association with Kodachrome and their rule in photographic development, HD will simply exist because they are HD.

Funny you should mention that. My wife bought a Kodak brand digital camera a few months back. She had to send it in twice for repair... what a piece of shyt. Last month she traded it on a Pentax. No problems yet.

What is it about American companies that they have to sell junk? Haven't they learned the lesson of Dodge and GM? Apparently not.

__________________
"Make no mistake, Communism lost a big argument - one we know today as the 20th century."

Funny you should mention that. My wife bought a Kodak brand digital camera a few months back. She had to send it in twice for repair... what a piece of shyt. Last month she traded it on a Pentax. No problems yet.

What is it about American companies that they have to sell junk? Haven't they learned the lesson of Dodge and GM? Apparently not.

I sold cameras for a living for 5 years, the companies MOST people think of for film and consumer electronics are BS. Kodak, Sony, GE, Samsung. On the other hand Fuji and Panasonic DO make good cameras and of course your Nikon, Canon, Pentax and Olympus.

Its pretty sad really, my grandfather till the day he died used to ask me to "Bring him a yellow box of film" when he wanted film for his 35mm...

I wont dispute that today the bikes that are like harley are clones but if we take a look couldn't we call them all Indian clones? What about the guy that told my old Neighbor that his Bonnie T100 was a HD clone?

Do HD really have some fantasy ownership of the motorcycle market?

The first is NOT always the best and the first deserves nothing but to be know as the inventors. There is no reason that the Soft tail should be held in any higher regard than the M109 unless the HD is really a better bike and of course unless you like the aesthetics of one better.

Far too many people buy things because the feel the have to. I have a couple of friends that felt they needed to drink scotch and smoke cigars because of their.... economic standing. My boss at the camera store bought a BMW because he was the store manager and thought he had to appear a certain way.

If people would drop this crap, buy what they like and appreciate what they have because they like it rather than buy due to others choices and judge what they have on how many other people can attain it then the world would be a much better place. My boss today drives a Toyota SUV because he likes it, even though he makes enough to drive just about anything he would want, because he likes his Toyota. Why can't more people be like that?

I sold cameras for a living for 5 years, the companies MOST people think of for film and consumer electronics are BS. Kodak, Sony, GE, Samsung. On the other hand Fuji and Panasonic DO make good cameras and of course your Nikon, Canon, Pentax and Olympus.

Its pretty sad really, my grandfather till the day he died used to ask me to "Bring him a yellow box of film" when he wanted film for his 35mm...

I wont dispute that today the bikes that are like harley are clones but if we take a look couldn't we call them all Indian clones? What about the guy that told my old Neighbor that his Bonnie T100 was a HD clone?

Do HD really have some fantasy ownership of the motorcycle market?

The first is NOT always the best and the first deserves nothing but to be know as the inventors. There is no reason that the Soft tail should be held in any higher regard than the M109 unless the HD is really a better bike and of course unless you like the aesthetics of one better.

Far too many people buy things because the feel the have to. I have a couple of friends that felt they needed to drink scotch and smoke cigars because of their.... economic standing. My boss at the camera store bought a BMW because he was the store manager and thought he had to appear a certain way.

If people would drop this crap, buy what they like and appreciate what they have because they like it rather than buy due to others choices and judge what they have on how many other people can attain it then the world would be a much better place. My boss today drives a Toyota SUV because he likes it, even though he makes enough to drive just about anything he would want, because he likes his Toyota. Why can't more people be like that?

Because people don't buy products. They buy how products make them feel. Period.

That's why DS400 with the milk crate on the back guy is even happy. He feels much smarter than all of us money wasters.

The Harley clowns get to me some times as well. It doesn't stop me from liking the bikes though. The Blackline looks way cool in person and I could see myself on an orange one.

I wont dispute that today the bikes that are like harley are clones but if we take a look couldn't we call them all Indian clones? What about the guy that told my old Neighbor that his Bonnie T100 was a HD clone?

Ha! Anyone who would call a T100 an HD clone has his head firmly implanted. since Triumph has been around longer than HD it could be the other way around.

As far as the origins of cruisers goes, it's undeniable that all the current cruisers from Honda to Polaris are based on HD styling. However the actual custom chopper look was developed by owners, not HD. Returning WWII vets bought HDs and removed a load of shyt to lighten them up after they got experience riding Brit bikes in Europe. If any one influence really started the custom chopper whole atrocity it would be that overrated bike flick "Easy Rider". HD did not originate the custom chopper look. HD simply offered the Superglide in response to the demands of the market. It all took off from there.

I built a chopper out of a Kwacker WS650. A very large percentage of the chopper riders rode Triumphs and BSAs. In no fashion did HD "own" the custom chopper market when it was the craze. Now they like to pretend that they do but it's BS.

__________________
"Make no mistake, Communism lost a big argument - one we know today as the 20th century."

I sold cameras for a living for 5 years, the companies MOST people think of for film and consumer electronics are BS. Kodak, Sony, GE, Samsung. On the other hand Fuji and Panasonic DO make good cameras and of course your Nikon, Canon, Pentax and Olympus.

I've owned Panasonic DMC series for years, and picked up last year the DMC-TS3 (indestructable camera). Found the only time I actually use a camera was in the worst conditions possible for a traditional setup ... Drunk & near water. LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by newagetwotone

I wont dispute that today the bikes that are like harley are clones but if we take a look couldn't we call them all Indian clones? What about the guy that told my old Neighbor that his Bonnie T100 was a HD clone?

The reason most are considered HD clones isn't because Harley was one of the first makers. It's because after WW2 HD (along with other US companies @ the behest of our Gov) sent tool & die equipment to Japan, most notably. Indian had all but filed bankruptcy by this point.

That's how Honda and, eventually, the other Asian makers were able to start making Harley-style cruisers. Ever since, HD has set the precedent for style while Asia follows willingly.

I don't agree with someone calling British, German or Italian bikes clones because their roots typically pre-date that war.

Also, I would've rather bought a new Vic Vegas 8-Ball (it cost the same as my used FXSTC) but the dealer network, aftermarket & area mechanics didn't support Victory. When it came down to buying a US maker bike; HD was a safer choice.

__________________
"There is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a master plan." - from the film Cube

There was a lot of 750 Honda and Yamaha 650 twin chops too. I remember when the Jammer catalog had a section for Japanese bikes, Amen made frames for them. The whole "HD is the only chopper" is total BS

I've owned Panasonic DMC series for years, and picked up last year the DMC-TS3 (indestructable camera). Found the only time I actually use a camera was in the worst conditions possible for a traditional setup ... Drunk & near water. LOL

The reason most are considered HD clones isn't because Harley was one of the first makers. It's because after WW2 HD (along with other US companies @ the behest of our Gov) sent tool & die equipment to Japan, most notably. Indian had all but filed bankruptcy by this point.

That's how Honda and, eventually, the other Asian makers were able to start making Harley-style cruisers. Ever since, HD has set the precedent for style while Asia follows willingly.

I don't agree with someone calling British, German or Italian bikes clones because their roots typically pre-date that war.

Also, I would've rather bought a new Vic Vegas 8-Ball (it cost the same as my used FXSTC) but the dealer network, aftermarket & area mechanics didn't support Victory. When it came down to buying a US maker bike; HD was a safer choice.

Other than the Ryco (?) flathead copy Japan didn't start making Harley style v twin cruisers until 1980 or so with the Virago, Japan Inc. all started out building mopeds and small two strokes until Honda came out with the CB750 in '69. I think the biggest Japanese bike prior to that was Yamaha and Kawasaki's Bonneville knock-offs.

If anyone "founded" the Japanese motorcycle industry it was Soiciro himself with his love of mopeds. Yamaha strated out making musical instruments, Suzuki I believe built sewing machines and Kawasaki built...well ...everything from bombers, aircraft engines an trains to ships and still do to this day.

Ha! Anyone who would call a T100 an HD clone has his head firmly implanted. since Triumph has been around longer than HD it could be the other way around.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seruzawa

As far as the origins of cruisers goes, it's undeniable that all the current cruisers from Honda to Polaris are based on HD styling. However the actual custom chopper look was developed by owners, not HD. Returning WWII vets bought HDs and removed a load of shyt to lighten them up after they got experience riding Brit bikes in Europe. If any one influence really started the custom chopper whole atrocity it would be that overrated bike flick "Easy Rider". HD did not originate the custom chopper look. HD simply offered the Superglide in response to the demands of the market. It all took off from there.

I built a chopper out of a Kwacker WS650. A very large percentage of the chopper riders rode Triumphs and BSAs. In no fashion did HD "own" the custom chopper market when it was the craze. Now they like to pretend that they do but it's BS.

Very true. It does beg the question of what people feel that HD "Owns" the style and why everyone is a rip off of HD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir_Angus

I've owned Panasonic DMC series for years, and picked up last year the DMC-TS3 (indestructable camera). Found the only time I actually use a camera was in the worst conditions possible for a traditional setup ... Drunk & near water. LOL

I loved the pannys, i have a 4/3 panny/oly SLR...Drunk + cameras tends to end badly... we used to have a camera on the shelf with a martini glass stem jammed into the screen... it fell from this girls hands and shattered the glass. The thing was really cool and stood up on its own... The owner was not amused.