Certainly not intended. Just looking at all sides. Mulling over other perspectives. You know.

No offense taken. I'm pretty easy going. And too tired. lol

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:10 AM

I would be thrilled if she's alive. I just can't believe that she's dead. So far, they haven't shown that Casey did anything to Caylee.

That's right. Thank heavens.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:10 AM

Would they really bluff something like this? Gosh, that'd be pretty sick. Anyone know if LE bluffs to media about someone being dead or not?

This what I don't get one news channel made claims and another one says something totally different.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 02:11 AM

This what I don't get one news channel made claims and another one says something totally different.

I think it is called RATINGS

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:11 AM

This what I don't get one news channel made claims and another one says something totally different.

Maybe they caught Casey syndrome.

nnglas

09-01-2008, 02:12 AM

This what I don't get one news channel made claims and another one says something totally different.

More then one news channel made this claim. Only 1 made the claim that they wouldn't confirm Caylee is dead, but several reported that it was confirmed.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:12 AM

I think it is called RATINGS

You could be right!

mkath59

09-01-2008, 02:13 AM

Also interesting that this flip is posted late at night while the Caylee is dead flip comes out prime time. Let's see what tomorrow brings.
I could definitely be wrong, as it does happen every now and then, but I've always thought that the DNA was inconclusive. I think they're bluffing now and releasing a bunch of maybes and not facts. I can't buy the body farm tests showing decomp without a source for the decomp. It there was decomp "air" in the car it stands to reason there was a direct source and I don't think hair is going to cut it.
Even if Caylee wasn't in the car, she could still be dead, but then we'd also know they were basing their investigation on their perceptions and not fact.

When/where did they flip? I don't see it on any of the media threads??

That would be horrible if they're bluffing about the death of a child.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:13 AM

More then one news channel made this claim. Only 1 made the claim that they wouldn't confirm Caylee is dead, but several reported that it was confirmed.

Please show all the ones that made the claims. Thanks!

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:13 AM

More then one news channel made this claim. Only 1 made the claim that they wouldn't confirm Caylee is dead, but several reported that it was confirmed.

You know I could be delusional, but I could have swore earlier they reported the same as the other channels.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 02:14 AM

I'm sorry but IMHO it would as though it is your mind is made up...not ON the fence at all. It sounds as if you are doing exactly that, trying to "convince others to believe what you believe" despite the FACTS. It is a very hard thing for all of us to accept the fact that Caylee is dead, I can only imagine how hard it is for the GP. I have lost a child many years ago of SIDS and I somehow convinced myself all the way up until the time that he was embalmed, that he was in a coma or something and would wake up. It was only after that had taken place that I knew he wouldn't wake up, and I was forced to accept the truth that he was gone. At some point denial only prolongs the agony. Sorry, didn't mean for all that to come out, just somehow felt it needed to.

I'm very sorry for your loss and your pain, Pondering.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 02:15 AM

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- For the first time on the record on Sunday, Orange County investigators acknowledged that recent FBI lab tests confirmed that Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead. "The information we've gotten back from the lab that she was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead is certainly something we take seriously," said Orange County Sheriff's Office Sgt. John Allen.

Pondering Mind

09-01-2008, 02:15 AM

For Pondering Mom :rose:

TY:blowkiss: I appreciate that. There is nothing wrong with holding out hope-but I just feel sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees.

Did we ever hear from LE (not LE said)? I want to hear them say it or see documention directly from them.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:15 AM

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70013

so help us out, seagull -- provide us some of your ideas instead of "trolling".

Looking forward to your posts.

I beg your pardon?
Well, since you are a fence sitter too, why don't you provide us with the different theories that you still think are possibilities? I've already talked about some of mine.

Mama Bear

09-01-2008, 02:16 AM

They are not basing their results on just a hair. When a body decomposes it releases chemicals into the air. And whatever these chemicals they where testing for have shown up in that trunk. Remember there was a stain in the trunk too.

I'm not sure what all the names of chemicals are that are released in decomposition. But i do know one of the chemicals is called cadverine. sorry not sure if I spelled cadaverine right it's late. I was once told years ago by a family member in law enforcement that this is partly why they call them cadaver dogs.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 02:16 AM

Please show all the ones that made the claims. Thanks!

AutomaticAuttie: has been posted already!!! ALL Orlando media outlets but local6 is reporting the confirmation of Caylee decomp in Casey trunk

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:16 AM

First let me say that I will post on any thread on this website that I see fit. I have been registered on this site since 2006 and will not bow down to people who have been her for only this case. We are supposed to be able to discuss all possibilities. And that is what I am doing. Don't get upset because I don't agree with you. I understand that this thread is for other theories. The problem with your theory is that it has no factual basis whatsoever. What makes you think that DNA evidence is limited and or debateable. Not one person has said that the sample was degraded. I'm not talking about the sniff test. If you discount the sniff test then fine, but how can you discount the DNA. There is no proof that anything was wrong with the test or the sample.

So what is your limited and debateble evidence?

Cadaver dogs hitting on the trunk
Sniff test saying decomposed body in the car
DNA test saying Caylee decomposed in car
The fact that there is no live Caylee being produced
All of the contradictory statements made by mother
Mother's lack of trying to find or help find Caylee

And with that you believe that she isn't dead? Or is it like an earlier poster said, people just want to be contrary.

LE won't confirm she's dead and the GP's whom I'd assume have some inside knowledge of what's going on insist she's alive.
I need more than hair and air.
I've spent my whole day thinking she was dead because of the news reports only to find an article posted an hour ago on channel 6 that LE isn't confirming it. Come on, it shouldn't take this long.

JBean

09-01-2008, 02:17 AM

Also interesting that this flip is posted late at night while the Caylee is dead flip comes out prime time. Let's see what tomorrow brings.
I could definitely be wrong, as it does happen every now and then, but I've always thought that the DNA was inconclusive. I think they're bluffing now and releasing a bunch of maybes and not facts. I can't buy the body farm tests showing decomp without a source for the decomp. It there was decomp "air" in the car it stands to reason there was a direct source and I don't think hair is going to cut it.
Even if Caylee wasn't in the car, she could still be dead, but then we'd also know they were basing their investigation on their perceptions and not fact.
I am anxious to get definitive word on the test results. IMO, based on the smell being decomp and being as bad as is reported, there is no way that significant material would not be available for proof positive results.

So, imo and iow if the smell is from decomp then the evidence has to be there.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 02:17 AM

I beg your pardon?
Well, since you are a fence sitter too, why don't you provide us with the different theories that you still think are possibilities? I've already talked about some of mine.

Here is a few i can dig up more. And btw it is FBI results that are claiming that. So much for i dont believe in body farm ect.

nnglas

09-01-2008, 02:18 AM

1) WESH-Channel 2 trumpeted that it had broken the news. Anchor Amanda Ober said, "For the first time, Orange County investigators go on the record: They tell WESH2 that recent FBI lab tests indicated Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead. It's a story our Bob Kealing broke on WESH.com this afternoon."

2) WFTV-Channel 9 on Wednesday reported that the child was dead. WFTV promoted that coverage in an early evening newscast Sunday. WFTV also offered Allen on camera saying, "There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car and that body was Caylee."

3) WOFL-Channel 35 reported that Sgt. Allen would say, off camera, that the evidence suggests Caylee's dead body was in the car.

So, three Orlando stations apparently have LE confirming forensics . . . I bet video is on their sites.

There you go.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:18 AM

Did we ever hear from LE (not LE said)? I want to hear them say it or see documention directly from them.

This has been my point all night. No one has actually heard it yet. Praying I don't.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:18 AM

AutomaticAuttie: has been posted already!!! ALL Orlando media outlets but local6 is reporting the confirmation of Caylee decomp in Casey trunk

3 pages back?

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:20 AM

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- For the first time on the record on Sunday, Orange County investigators acknowledged that recent FBI lab tests confirmed that Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead. "The information we've gotten back from the lab that she was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead is certainly something we take seriously," said Orange County Sheriff's Office Sgt. John Allen.

Then an hour ago this comes out...

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Orange County sheriff's deputies said Sunday they are not ready to confirm that missing Caylee Anthony is dead or that her body was in the trunk of her mother's car.

http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

Actually it was 45 minutes ago.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:22 AM

More then one news channel made this claim. Only 1 made the claim that they wouldn't confirm Caylee is dead, but several reported that it was confirmed.

I think this is the newest.
Ch 9 reported she was dead first and I'd heard someone describe them as more of a tabloid than a respectable news source.

EastSideOfSaddness

09-01-2008, 02:24 AM

Did we ever hear from LE (not LE said)? I want to hear them say it or see documention directly from them.

I heard it come directly out of detective Allen's mouth today when he was down at the search tent. This was on the news 2 times (repeat). It wasn't quoted from the media it was straight from the horses mouth.

Gnight all, I have a search to attend later.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:24 AM

I think this is the newest.
Ch 9 reported she was dead first and I'd heard someone describe them as more of a tabloid than a respectable news source.

Here is a few i can dig up more. And btw it is FBI results that are claiming that. So much for i dont believe in body farm ect.
This is from your link:

Allen told the Orlando Sentinel Sunday night that the evidence suggests that the body in the back of the car was "likely to be Caylee." He would not disclose the type of evidence that was returned from the federal lab and would not confirm whether the child was dead.

ETA: I believe in all likelyhood that this is Caylee's DNA and decomp. But there are still reasons for others to hold out for confirmation and I respect that.

jd_martin

09-01-2008, 02:27 AM

I know exactly what they are trying to say. They are saying yes there was a dead body in the trunk but we cannot confirm its caylees. Just covering their butts till more results come in.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:27 AM

I just want to say one thing. We have lots of evidence (some circumstansal, some scientific) that says that Caylee is dead. Is there any evidence that says she is alive? Because I would really like her to be and I would love to be shown wrong.

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:28 AM

When/where did they flip? I don't see it on any of the media threads??

That would be horrible if they're bluffing about the death of a child.

I think they'll say whatever is necessary to solve their case. By using words like seems, appears, indicates they have wiggle room and can later say that while the evidence "indicated" Caylee was dead the final test results weren't conclusive.
IMO, they've had the DNA back for weeks.
They want Casey to talk.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 02:29 AM

TY:blowkiss: I appreciate that. There is nothing wrong with holding out hope-but I just feel sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees.

And sometimes they see them but just enjoy being contrary. I've heard of forum trolls. People who go into forums and for the sole purpose of riling people up. Awful to do in the section about poor little Caylee, in a forum full of very caring people.

I held onto a thread of hope for Caylee for a long time. More than I realized I had. When I saw LE had confirmed her death, and that it was indeed this precious baby's body in the trunk of her own mother's car, I haven't been able to stop crying all day.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:29 AM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

I have to say you really did sound like Cindy there. But I agree.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 02:30 AM

I heard it come directly out of detective Allen's mouth today when he was down at the search tent. This was on the news 2 times (repeat). It wasn't quoted from the media it was straight from the horses mouth.

Gnight all, I have a search to attend later.

Bless you, EastSide. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow. Thank you for searching :blowkiss:

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 02:31 AM

I wonder if the media DID get the info but was asked to sit on it.

It's very likely LE is still hoping to use any & all leverage they can to get Casey to accept the "limited immunity" offer.

I really don't think LE will be in a rush to release an official statement about Caylee's death UNTIL the Tue. deadline passes & maybe even longer IF it's in their best interests.

Of course, they can still tell the family in private what the "official" results are that would have nothing to do with how they choose to handle a public announcement.

IMO.... all the people directly involved ALREADY know the results.... (we've all known the preliminary results for a long time now anyway) whether or not they believe it, that's a whole other story.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:31 AM

And sometimes they see them but just enjoy being contrary. I've heard of forum trolls. People who go into forums and for the sole purpose of riling people up. Awful to do in the section about poor little Caylee, in a forum full of very caring people.

I held onto a thread of hope for Caylee for a long time. More than I realized I had. When I saw LE had confirmed her death, and that it was indeed this precious baby's body in the trunk of her own mother's car, I haven't been able to stop crying all day.

I realy hope this is not at all directed towards me. Because if so that couldn't be further from the truth.

LiveLoveLaughLiza

09-01-2008, 02:32 AM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

All the above help Casey and her defense. What about Caylee?

This poor innocent child's body needs to be found. She needs to be laid to rest in a proper way.

I am praying very hard that her body is found soon, God Bless that precious baby girl.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:32 AM

I wonder if the media DID get the info but was asked to sit on it.

It's very likely LE is still hoping to use any & all leverage they can to get Casey to accept the "limited immunity" offer.

I really don't think LE will be in a rush to release an official statement about Caylee's death UNTIL the Tue. deadline passes & maybe even longer IF it's in their best interests.

Of course, they can still tell the family in private what the "official" results are that would have nothing to do with how they choose to handle a public announcement.

IMO.... all the people directly involved ALREADY know the results.... (we've all known the preliminary results for a long time now anyway) whether or not they believe it, that's a whole other story.

If that's the case they didn't sit on it very well. Gotta love the media

BeanE

09-01-2008, 02:32 AM

You know I could be delusional, but I could have swore earlier they reported the same as the other channels.

Link please

jd_martin

09-01-2008, 02:32 AM

This is from your link:

Allen told the Orlando Sentinel Sunday night that the evidence suggests that the body in the back of the car was "likely to be Caylee." He would not disclose the type of evidence that was returned from the federal lab and would not confirm whether the child was dead.

ETA: I believe in all likelyhood that this is Caylee's DNA and decomp. But there are still reasons for others to hold out for confirmation and I respect that.

"We clearly have evidence that indicates that there was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car, and that that body was Caylee," Allen told WFTV-Channel 9 in an interview that aired Sunday evening.

He also said that in the previous paragraph. I guess im as confused as some.

Ladytazz

09-01-2008, 02:33 AM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

I hope this is all JB has.

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 02:33 AM

Lack of motive? Says who?

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:33 AM

You are walking a tight wire, seagull . . . but you are IGNORE able

But you were the one who asked :waitasec: That's okay, though.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:34 AM

Link please

Told you I could be delusional. I can't find it. LOL

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:34 AM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

The more time that goes by the worse it looks, but I agree with your post. Something that struck me, was that those that heard Casey reprimand or "yell at" Caylee said she did it when Caylee was headed for the stairs or too close to the pool. So Caylee mainly got in trouble for doing things that could hurt her. It doesn't make sense. 'Stay away from the stairs so you don't fall before I can kill you' ????

LiveLoveLaughLiza

09-01-2008, 02:34 AM

I heard it come directly out of detective Allen's mouth today when he was down at the search tent. This was on the news 2 times (repeat). It wasn't quoted from the media it was straight from the horses mouth.

Gnight all, I have a search to attend later.

Bless you, I can't help in the search, but I am with you in heart and mind. Be careful and THANK YOU:blowkiss:

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:35 AM

lack of motive because her mother really wanted the child back at her house, if Casey didn't want to be saddled with her she could very easily take her back there. No motive to "get rid of" the child.

Talison

09-01-2008, 02:36 AM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

There was no sighting in the airport. Detectives followed up on the information given to them by the woman who claimed she saw Caylee, and it all turned out to be false information. No child of Caylee's age or description flew from Orlando to Atlanta that day, nor did the woman who reported the sighting, even though she SAID she flew to Atlanta that day. Her story didn't check out. It's all in the 400 page document, did you read it?

Ladytazz

09-01-2008, 02:37 AM

lack of motive because her mother really wanted the child back at her house, if Casey didn't want to be saddled with her she could very easily take her back there. No motive to "get rid of" the child.

That would be true for an intentional murder but what if it was an accident?

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:38 AM

"We clearly have evidence that indicates that there was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car, and that that body was Caylee," Allen told WFTV-Channel 9 in an interview that aired Sunday evening.

He also said that in the previous paragraph. I guess im as confused as some.

The evidence in the trunk is not clear. If it was clear there would be no immunity or holding off to make a statement.

JBean

09-01-2008, 02:38 AM

"We clearly have evidence that indicates that there was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car, and that that body was Caylee," Allen told WFTV-Channel 9 in an interview that aired Sunday evening.

He also said that in the previous paragraph. I guess im as confused as some.Exactly.
They are wording things in such a way that it is very confusing. So that's why we must respect those thatwant it defintively confirmed. LE does not have their story straight yet.
Like I said, I think in the final analysis this will be Caylee but understand why some remain unconvinced.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 02:39 AM

This has been my point all night. No one has actually heard it yet. Praying I don't.

awwwwww, you josher, you! We have posts in this very thread. People saying they indeed saw the news reports on TV of Sgt. Allen of OCSO saying that 1) there was a body in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car, and 2) that the body was that of Casey Anthony's daughter, Caylee.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:39 AM

The more time that goes by the worse it looks, but I agree with your post. Something that struck me, was that those that heard Casey reprimand or "yell at" Caylee said she did it when Caylee was headed for the stairs or too close to the pool. So Caylee mainly got in trouble for doing things that could hurt her. It doesn't make sense. 'Stay away from the stairs so you don't fall before I can kill you' ????

Yeah, all those interviewed said that she showed the normal kind of concern for her safety, don't get too close to the stairs, etc, that she cared for her well in terms of feeding her healthy meals, keeping her bathed, put to bed at a good bed time, routine of tucking in her little animals with her, etc. And that Casey never showed a temper toward her or anything like that.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:39 AM

The evidence in the trunk is not clear. If it was clear there would be no immunity or holding off to make a statement.

100% agree. We would not be having this conversation if they were 100%

LiveLoveLaughLiza

09-01-2008, 02:41 AM

awwwwww, you josher, you! We have posts in this very thread. People saying they indeed saw the news reports on TV of Sgt. Allen of OCSO saying that 1) there was a body in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car, and 2) that the body was that of Casey Anthony's daughter, Caylee.

MommaShark,
Please go and read Post #278, from Eastside, she heard it from Sgt. Allen when they were both searching for Caylee today with TES.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:42 AM

awwwwww, you josher, you! We have posts in this very thread. People saying they indeed saw the news reports on TV of Sgt. Allen of OCSO saying that 1) there was a body in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car, and 2) that the body was that of Casey Anthony's daughter, Caylee.

That's all fine and good. But I will hold off for the hard evidence. Especialy now that it's being reported they are not sure. Plus I think that if they were 100% they would have a briefing and not just tell some of the media one thing and the others another.

nnglas

09-01-2008, 02:43 AM

I do want to make a point in saying that people on this board heard the statement from LE, also the news that is reported has quoted someone. They have not said sources close to the investigation but gave an actual name.

wildflowerTN

09-01-2008, 02:43 AM

Yeah, all those interviewed said that she showed the normal kind of concern for her safety, don't get too close to the stairs, etc, that she cared for her well in terms of feeding her healthy meals, keeping her bathed, put to bed at a good bed time, routine of tucking in her little animals with her, etc. And that Casey never showed a temper toward her or anything like that.

She had Caylee sleeping in a bed with her and a new boyfriend. She also had her at adult parties..Those are not things a good mother would do.

nnglas

09-01-2008, 02:43 AM

That's all fine and good. But I will hold off for the hard evidence. Especialy now that it's being reported they are not sure. Plus I think that if they were 100% they would have a briefing and not just tell some of the media one thing and the others another.

So you want to see the DNA report?

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 02:43 AM

If that's the case they didn't sit on it very well. Gotta love the media

Do they do ANYTHING well? lol

But seriously, I think this is what happened.

And frankly, I would NOT put it past LE & FBI Profilers to be manipulating a whole lot behind the scenes so they can locate Caylee.

It's pretty obvious by the methodical way LE has been releasing tidbits of info or charges that they are working from a well thought out plan.

Even creating some UNCERTAINTY about whether or not the 'leak' was accurate could be effect to motivate Casey to make a decision. A goof or intentional 'leak'.... we'll never know.

It's hard to believe NO OTHER sources would be picking up the story.... they're avoiding it for a reason.

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 02:44 AM

lack of motive because her mother really wanted the child back at her house, if Casey didn't want to be saddled with her she could very easily take her back there. No motive to "get rid of" the child.

Sadly, I believe the investigation in this case points to a different conclusion.

jd_martin

09-01-2008, 02:44 AM

The evidence in the trunk is not clear. If it was clear there would be no immunity or holding off to make a statement.

They are not offering immunity because they dont have clear evidence. They are offering PARTIAL immunity in hopes Casey will lead LE to Caylee. By promising they wont use any information she gives in locating caylee to prosecute.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:45 AM

There was no sighting in the airport. Detectives followed up on the information given to them by the woman who claimed she saw Caylee, and it all turned out to be false information. No child of Caylee's age or description flew from Orlando to Atlanta that day, nor did the woman who reported the sighting, even though she SAID she flew to Atlanta that day. Her story didn't check out. It's all in the 400 page document, did you read it?

I read it, I think it said that the mother and son both said they had been waiting for the Atlanta flight together with this child who called herself Caylee Marie and who said she was 3 and then 2. That they'd sat talking with her for about 10 minutes before the flight. That the little girl looked to them just like Caylee, and she was with a woman that they didn't think appeared to be her mother. They insisted that the woman and child were on the plane with them in about row 10. But when police checked the records, the report says that there were only two young children listed and neither had Caylee's name. One was a girl who was on someone's lap, no seat ticket (you can do that for age 2 and under usually, right?). Different name. No one by Caylee's name.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:45 AM

So you want to see the DNA report?

I would like to hear it with my own two ears. A dna report would be nice though. You have one. jk

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:45 AM

So you want to see the DNA report?

I would like to!

krimekat

09-01-2008, 02:46 AM

They are not offering immunity because they dont have clear evidence. They are offering PARTIAL immunity in hopes Casey will lead LE to Caylee. By promising they wont use any information she gives in locating caylee to prosecute.

totally agree

Pondering Mind

09-01-2008, 02:46 AM

And sometimes they see them but just enjoy being contrary. I've heard of forum trolls. People who go into forums and for the sole purpose of riling people up. Awful to do in the section about poor little Caylee, in a forum full of very caring people.

I held onto a thread of hope for Caylee for a long time. More than I realized I had. When I saw LE had confirmed her death, and that it was indeed this precious baby's body in the trunk of her own mother's car, I haven't been able to stop crying all day.

Very true! And it does rile me up, (I have a grandaughter that was 3 in June and one that will be 3 this month) we all held out hope. Even though most thought that she was not with us anymore ...having it confirmed is just the kick in the gut. And the idea that this precious little girl is tossed aside like trash just is more than we can bear. So very sad!

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:47 AM

Do they do ANYTHING well? lol

But seriously, I think this is what happened.

And frankly, I would NOT put it past LE & FBI Profilers to be manipulating a whole lot behind the scenes so they can locate Caylee.

It's pretty obvious by the methodical way LE has been releasing tidbits of info or charges that they are working from a well thought out plan.

Even creating some UNCERTAINTY about whether or not the 'leak' was accurate could be effect to motivate Casey to make a decision. A goof or intentional 'leak'.... we'll never know.

It's hard to believe NO OTHER sources would be picking up the story.... they're avoiding it for a reason.

Absolutely. Nothing about this case has made any sense. That's why I can't say that she is Dead.

magiemay

09-01-2008, 02:48 AM

Yeah, all those interviewed said that she showed the normal kind of concern for her safety, don't get too close to the stairs, etc, that she cared for her well in terms of feeding her healthy meals, keeping her bathed, put to bed at a good bed time, routine of tucking in her little animals with her, etc. And that Casey never showed a temper toward her or anything like that.
for gosh sakes she was so concerned she took her to the grown up beer parties and when the baby woke up Casey was outside yeppers buddy I really think she did all the motherly things. Don't know why but there are sworn statements to that.

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 02:48 AM

There was no sighting in the airport. Detectives followed up on the information given to them by the woman who claimed she saw Caylee, and it all turned out to be false information. No child of Caylee's age or description flew from Orlando to Atlanta that day, nor did the woman who reported the sighting, even though she SAID she flew to Atlanta that day. Her story didn't check out. It's all in the 400 page document, did you read it?

Yup - another reason why people should remember that circumstantial evidence is often times more conclusive/reliable than eye-witness testimony.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 02:48 AM

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69973

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 02:49 AM

She had Caylee sleeping in a bed with her and a new boyfriend. She also had her at adult parties..Those are not things a good mother would do.

Now, THAT'S something I can not think of ANY possible 'defense' for. It's SO appalling, it makes my head spin.

It also makes me wonder if any of her friends spoke up & told her it was no place for Caylee? I mean, even the boyfriend can't be too happy sharing a bed with his girlfriend and a baby!

Could THAT have been the beginning when she realized Caylee was starting to interfere with her social life.... if her friends started sounding just like her PARENTS???

nnglas

09-01-2008, 02:49 AM

I would like to hear it with my own two ears. A dna report would be nice though. You have one. jk

I don't know if one would help. It seems that LE saying it isn't helping at all. Like I said earlier they directly quoted someone in LE, and I don't think the press would do that in this case. Also, the report that Caylee's death couldn't be confirmed came from "sources close to the case" that could be the Anthony's.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:49 AM

totally agree

Or just a thought they could be offering limited immunity because she was involved in something highly illegal.
And she knows if she tells what she knows she is going to jail either way.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:50 AM

So you want to see the DNA report?

I want to know the source of the decomp smell.
What was the stain? blood or decomp fluid and was it Caylee's ?
They've talked about air and hair and I'm not sure I trust either of those sources.
After all this time, even I have given up almost all hope that she's alive.
It still doesn't mean she was ever in the trunk of that car.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 02:51 AM

I realy hope this is not at all directed towards me. Because if so that couldn't be further from the truth.

Wow! I never think posts are directed towards me unless the person does a quote or uses my name. I really hope I don't have to go back through this whole forum looking for posts that might be directed toward me even though they don't say anything about me.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:51 AM

She had Caylee sleeping in a bed with her and a new boyfriend. She also had her at adult parties..Those are not things a good mother would do.

Oh, I agree. It definitely would have been a more stable, and safer, environment, to be back with her grandparents than going from here to there staying with friends with the 22year old mom. But no reports of her mistreating Caylee or anything remotely like that.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:51 AM

I don't know if one would help. It seems that LE saying it isn't helping at all. Like I said earlier they directly quoted someone in LE, and I don't think the press would do that in this case. Also, the report that Caylee's death couldn't be confirmed came from "sources close to the case" that could be the Anthony's.

Okay my question is... Did you hear them say it? Because I have not. And now you have other sources saying something diferent. You could be right but I choose to hope not.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:54 AM

I don't know if one would help. It seems that LE saying it isn't helping at all. Like I said earlier they directly quoted someone in LE, and I don't think the press would do that in this case. Also, the report that Caylee's death couldn't be confirmed came from "sources close to the case" that could be the Anthony's.

That's not what I read.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Sunday they are not ready to confirm that missing Caylee Anthony is dead or that her body was in the trunk of her mother's car.
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

Unless they've made Cindy a deputy.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 02:54 AM

Wow! I never think posts are directed towards me unless the person does a quote or uses my name. I really hope I don't have to go back through this whole forum looking for posts that might be directed toward me even though they don't say anything about me.

In your post it seemed you were directing your post towards others in the forum. Not a big deal. At that point in time Seagull and I were under fire. Just checking. That's old news now.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:54 AM

I want to know the source of the decomp smell.
What was the stain? blood or decomp fluid and was it Caylee's ?
They've talked about air and hair and I'm not sure I trust either of those sources.
After all this time, even I have given up almost all hope that she's alive.
It still doesn't mean she was ever in the trunk of that car.

You know Isabelle from here was going to contact the body farm I think she is a chem major or has her major and ask them some questions because as far as she could tell the same chemicals are let by off animals and humans alike.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 02:55 AM

That would be true for an intentional murder but what if it was an accident?

I still consider that a possibility. I'm hopeful that didn't happen but you never know. It's hard to believe she would try to hide the body, not take the child to an emergency room or whatever, if an accident occurred, but you never know.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:56 AM

You know Isabelle from here was going to contact the body farm I think she is a chem major or has her major and ask them some questions because as far as she could tell the same chemicals are let off animals and humans alike.

It would make sense that they were the same.

wildflowerTN

09-01-2008, 02:56 AM

Oh, I agree. It definitely would have been a more stable, and safer, environment, to be back with her grandparents than going from here to there staying with friends with the 22year old mom. But no reports of her mistreating Caylee or anything remotely like that.

I consider having a 3 year old sleeping in the same bed as a man I am a "fun buddy" with mistreatment. IMO taking her to adult parties the same. I believe she very well could have been putting up a front for her friends. Ohh look Casey is such a great mom! people started seeing through this.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 02:57 AM

It would make sense that they were the same.

I'll find her posts!

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 02:57 AM

Oh, I agree. It definitely would have been a more stable, and safer, environment, to be back with her grandparents than going from here to there staying with friends with the 22year old mom. But no reports of her mistreating Caylee or anything remotely like that.

And there were no reports that Scott Peterson had ever mistreated Laci.

Pondering Mind

09-01-2008, 03:00 AM

Oh, I agree. It definitely would have been a more stable, and safer, environment, to be back with her grandparents than going from here to there staying with friends with the 22year old mom. But no reports of her mistreating Caylee or anything remotely like that.

Seagull, do you think that the GP's would have taken custody of Caylee if Casey would have agreed? Or do you think that they wanted her to take responsibility for her daughter? Just curious about your thoughts on the family dynamics.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 03:03 AM

That would be true for an intentional murder but what if it was an accident?

I don't think that's true for intentional murder, Ladytazz. There are a plethora of cases of murder where a family member would have gladly taken the victim, but the perp killed them anyway. And not just murders that are crimes of passion (rage) either, but planned murders.

In fact, Casey's motive may have been just that - that her mother wanted to care for Caylee.

Also, looking at the other things going on, such as Casey telling a number of people that in a week, her parents were giving her their house and she would be taking over the payments, Casey's motive may been complete autonomy. That is, no parents as well as no child.

Cayley was stealing money from her parents, her grandparents, her friend, and who knows who else. Money could have been a motive. No child, fewer expenses.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 03:03 AM

um, HN just showed the video of OCPD confirming DNA in the car's trunk -- replaying NG from Fri nite

nnglas

09-01-2008, 03:04 AM

That's not what I read.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Sunday they are not ready to confirm that missing Caylee Anthony is dead or that her body was in the trunk of her mother's car.
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

Unless they've made Cindy a deputy.

Excuse me you are right. However "sheriff's deputies" is a very general statement. However Sgt John Allen is very specific.

pregodego2

09-01-2008, 03:04 AM

1 dog and possible human handler error.
2 dogs in the backyard, and did they find anything back there?

We don't know. Le doesn't offer everything in their hand right away, as we all know by now. Here's some food for thought:

1. The day the police were originally called, George was back there moving around the playhouse and looking under the slabs for any signs of "foul play" and Cindy was looking in the shed.

2. The dogs hit by the sandbox and it was later found out that Cindy had taken toys from the car and put them back in the sandbox.

It is VERY possible that either
a. caylee was buried back there then moved.
b. caylee's decomp dna or scent was on those toys from being in the car with her and caused hits.
c. George touched anything in that car that had decomp fluids on it and then went in the backyard and was touching the playhouse and the slabs - therefore transfering the scent.

I just wanted to help you out with #2 - wether or not LE found anything in the backyard after the dogs hit back there. I was showing you that there may not have been anything to find back there, but instead it was transfered fluids and smell.

Hopefully they took tests of the dirt back there, does anyone know?

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 03:05 AM

That's not what I read.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Sunday they are not ready to confirm that missing Caylee Anthony is dead or that her body was in the trunk of her mother's car.
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

Interestingly, they don't say "They CAN'T confirm" which I believe is what they were officially saying up until very recently.... now they say they "are not ready."

JBean

09-01-2008, 03:08 AM

Excuse me you are right. However "sheriff's deputies" is a very general statement. However Sgt John Allen is very specific.
But to be fair, he also says:

Allen told the Orlando Sentinel Sunday night that the evidence suggests that the body in the back of the car was "likely to be Caylee." He would not disclose the type of evidence that was returned from the federal lab and would not confirm whether the child was dead

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 03:08 AM

I found it! It was on the general caylee tread #158 I only copied her first post. There are more to back this one up from her.
Putrefaction aka decomposition:

Just did some research on this and found some interesting information. Main components are putrescine and cadaverine. These molecules are produced by decaying animals. Yes, you read that correctly, animals. Nothing that I found reports anything unique to human decomposition as compared to any other animal that is decomposing.

I have been thinking about the air test. Being a Bio/Chem major, I couldn't quite understand the importance or urgency of the air test, since to me an animal is an animal.

I see a problem here, at least until confirmed final forensics unrelated to air testing is received. What do you think?

BeanE

09-01-2008, 03:09 AM

I consider having a 3 year old sleeping in the same bed as a man I am a "fun buddy" with mistreatment. IMO taking her to adult parties the same. I believe she very well could have been putting up a front for her friends. Ohh look Casey is such a great mom! people started seeing through this.

There are also more than one report in the 400 page document that Casey had Caylee sleep at those parties, while Casey used marijuana, drugs, and alcohol, thereby diminishing her ability to take proper care and responsibility with Caylee.

There's a report of Caylee having bruises.

No one has been able to determine who, if anyone, was caring for Caylee at times when Casey was known to be out partying, and her parents known not to be watching Caylee.

MommaShark

09-01-2008, 03:10 AM

Well all it has been very stimulating conversation. Hope I did not offend anyone tonight. It has been nice to actually hear what everyone thinks. I myself will go to bed sitting on the fence. I know the chances don't look good for Caylee, but I still can not be 100%. So I will hold on to hope for one more night. And I thank all off you for your insight. Goodnight!

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 03:11 AM

After Tuesday, I expect we will hear more from LE. Much more.

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 03:12 AM

Just did some research on this and found some interesting information. Main components are putrescine and cadaverine. These molecules are produced by decaying animals. Yes, you read that correctly, animals. Nothing that I found reports anything unique to human decomposition as compared to any other animal that is decomposing.

I have been thinking about the air test. Being a Bio/Chem major, I couldn't quite understand the importance or urgency of the air test, since to me an animal is an animal.

MAIN COMPONENTS doesn't mean ALL components. Obviously there are far more factors considered.

Otherwise how would DOGS be able to distinguish between a dead human & a dead raccoon????

JBean

09-01-2008, 03:13 AM

After Tuesday, I expect we will hear more from LE. Much more.
I agree DT. I think LE is trying to say it without saying it. That leads to understandable doubt and hopefully it will be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 03:13 AM

Seagull, do you think that the GP's would have taken custody of Caylee if Casey would have agreed? Or do you think that they wanted her to take responsibility for her daughter? Just curious about your thoughts on the family dynamics.

That's a good question. My impression is that they were pressuring Casey to move out but that Cindy was very unhappy when Casey took Caylee with her (judging from that post that Cindy put on her myspace or facebook), especially when she then didn't hear from them, no visits, etc. She wrote her post asking basically "why have you taken the baby away when I supported you during your pregnancy and raised and fed this baby with you" (I'm paraphrasing there, not exact quote.) I definitely think the grandparents would have taken Caylee, I think Casey was getting back at them a bit by saying, okay, if that's the way you want it, you can't have Caylee either, she and I are going to start our own life and have some bonding time together. Earlier in this case I even thought maybe Casey had had friends hide Caylee from the grandparents, either because (a) she was afraid they wanted custody or could win custody, or even (b) I wondered what if the child had had an accident like a black eye or broken arm, or anything like that, would Casey possibly have friends hide her until it could heal rather than face her parents with it... especially if there was any chance of a custody issue.

nnglas

09-01-2008, 03:14 AM

I found it! It was on the general caylee tread #158 I only copied her first post. There are more to back this one up from her.
Putrefaction aka decomposition:

Just did some research on this and found some interesting information. Main components are putrescine and cadaverine. These molecules are produced by decaying animals. Yes, you read that correctly, animals. Nothing that I found reports anything unique to human decomposition as compared to any other animal that is decomposing.

I have been thinking about the air test. Being a Bio/Chem major, I couldn't quite understand the importance or urgency of the air test, since to me an animal is an animal.

I see a problem here, at least until confirmed final forensics unrelated to air testing is received. What do you think?

Honestly I don't put too much stock in the air test. As I don't know much about it. That being said, it seems this post indicates that there could have been a dead animal in the car. Who puts dead animals in their trunk? And why has nobody said, hey we had a dead animal in the car. I mean really.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 03:14 AM

MAIN COMPONENTS doesn't mean ALL components. Obviously there are far more factors considered.

Otherwise how would DOGS be able to distinguish between a dead human & a dead raccoon????

I sure that was covered over there #158 I did want to cut and paste all of them.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 03:19 AM

hey, there is OCPD on Headline News again, supporting the decomp evidence in the trunk . . .

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 03:20 AM

Excuse me you are right. However "sheriff's deputies" is a very general statement. However Sgt John Allen is very specific.

Before Sgt Allen ever made a statement "indicating" Caylee's body was in the trunk, there were quite a few articles that referred to "inside sources" saying Caylee was dead.
Let's see what they say tomorrow.

Pondering Mind

09-01-2008, 03:20 AM

That's a good question. My impression is that they were pressuring Casey to move out but that Cindy was very unhappy when Casey took Caylee with her (judging from that post that Cindy put on her myspace or facebook), especially when she then didn't hear from them, no visits, etc. She wrote her post asking basically "why have you taken the baby away when I supported you during your pregnancy and raised and fed this baby with you" (I'm paraphrasing there, not exact quote.) I definitely think the grandparents would have taken Caylee, I think Casey was getting back at them a bit by saying, okay, if that's the way you want it, you can't have Caylee either, she and I are going to start our own life and have some bonding time together. Earlier in this case I even thought maybe Casey had had friends hide Caylee from the grandparents, either because (a) she was afraid they wanted custody or could win custody, or even (b) I wondered what if the child had had an accident like a black eye or broken arm, or anything like that, would Casey possibly have friends hide her until it could heal rather than face her parents with it... especially if there was any chance of a custody issue.

I had hoped that in the beginning too. Just Casey being obstinate, I have a 23 y/o son who I love dearly, but he knows how to push my buttons! (we are alot alike actually) But do you think that the GP thought Casey would move out with Caylee?

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 03:23 AM

I sure that was covered over there #158 I did want to cut and paste all of them.

I wasn't really buying the argument the first time. lol

I still say, I think this air test will make it's premier in American Courts during the Casey Anthony trial.

The scientists will present their data & their knowledge & a jury will decide whether they think it has merit. Just like DNA Evidence had a first trial... so will this new technology.

AutomaticAuttie

09-01-2008, 03:24 AM

MAIN COMPONENTS doesn't mean ALL components. Obviously there are far more factors considered.

Otherwise how would DOGS be able to distinguish between a dead human & a dead raccoon????

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2591421&postcount=496

start here and read on.

Tate

09-01-2008, 03:24 AM

Oh, I agree. It definitely would have been a more stable, and safer, environment, to be back with her grandparents than going from here to there staying with friends with the 22year old mom. But no reports of her mistreating Caylee or anything remotely like that.

Up for a midnight tinkle and thought I would see how this thread was progressing... Good grief!! :)

So Seagull65, I would love to hear what you think about Cindy's July 3rd post on her MySpace blog as quoted below:

"She came into my life unexpectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankful for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant; the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies and more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"

BeanE

09-01-2008, 03:29 AM

That's a good question. My impression is that they were pressuring Casey to move out but that Cindy was very unhappy when Casey took Caylee with her (judging from that post that Cindy put on her myspace or facebook), especially when she then didn't hear from them, no visits, etc. She wrote her post asking basically "why have you taken the baby away when I supported you during your pregnancy and raised and fed this baby with you" (I'm paraphrasing there, not exact quote.) I definitely think the grandparents would have taken Caylee, I think Casey was getting back at them a bit by saying, okay, if that's the way you want it, you can't have Caylee either, she and I are going to start our own life and have some bonding time together. Earlier in this case I even thought maybe Casey had had friends hide Caylee from the grandparents, either because (a) she was afraid they wanted custody or could win custody, or even (b) I wondered what if the child had had an accident like a black eye or broken arm, or anything like that, would Casey possibly have friends hide her until it could heal rather than face her parents with it... especially if there was any chance of a custody issue.

Cindy heard from Casey every day by phone, text messages, and emails, with the exception of a couple days where she could not reach her by phone.

That was Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

Do you have a link to information that disproves what Cindy said?

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 03:30 AM

I had hoped that in the beginning too. Just Casey being obstinate, I have a 23 y/o son who I love dearly, but he knows how to push my buttons! (we are alot alike actually) But do you think that the GP thought Casey would move out with Caylee?

IMO, the fact that Casey did NOT abuse Caylee while she had her parents as a safety net was exactly WHAT allowed Cindy to feel like she could take the gamble that Casey having Caylee 24/7 might be just what she needed to open her eyes & start to APPRECIATE everything her parents did for both of them.

A little experiment to see if Casey would grow up & start to become more responsible.

I think that's why Cindy was able to resist chasing after Casey for a month.... even though she WAS broken-hearted AND missed Caylee, she figured Casey was just not letting her speak to her out of spite & Cindy didn't want to give Casey the reaction she probably expected.... to have her parents come get her & embarrass her thus confirming to all her friends how mean they were & how they always controlled everything she did.

Ooops.... sorry, you asked seagull. I'll shut up now. lol

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 03:33 AM

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2591421&postcount=496

start here and read on.

Bad link but as I said... I read it when it was happening.

I'm going to wait to see how they present this evidence at trial. I'm sure it's MUCH MORE complicated than we know.

unravel

09-01-2008, 03:34 AM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

Lack of body, for me, is a non-issue. There was DNA evidence in that trunk that proves Caylee's body was in it, and that her body was decomposing at the time. I trust the FBI labs, and I'm assuming that the OSCO labs have tested it as well.

What Casey believes is irrelevant. She's a POI in her daughter's disappearance, has been nothing but dishonest and unhelpful throughout the investigation. GPs are NOT reliable for so many reasons -- they are grieving, and denial is usually the first step in that process. We have -through their own actions- reason to question how rational they are at the current time.

The sighting in the airport does not help. It came from Cindy -see above- rather than LE, and when LE did look into it, they found nothing to validate the claim (no video footage, no pictures, no recollection of Caylee from ANYBODY other than the woman who had made the claim -- not security, not other passengers, not airport employees, not people who were there to pick up/drop off passengers). There have been NO confirmed sightings of his child since 6/15.

As for there being no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate towards Caylee,

We have at least one person who has stated to LE that Casey did not want Caylee when she was pregnant.
IIRC, in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child
Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate]
Letting your 2 year old sleep in the same bed with you and your boyfriend [when the relationship isn't serious] is, IMO, sortakindareally creepy, and _not_ normal
Dragging your two year old to poker parties, and putting her to sleep on the couch while people drink, smoke and do god knows what? Not normal.
Lying to people about who cares for your child? Not normal.
Waiting 30 days after your child "goes missing" -and all the time living it up and feeding people a steaming pile about how she's just fine and in the care of a nanny or her grandparents-, reporting her "disappearance" to authorities ONLY when forced to? Not normal. Not affectionate. Doing nothing but feeding the investigators who are pouring time and energy into locating your child, lies and hostility? Abnormal and cold.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 03:35 AM

Crap I'm in trouble because when we get to that hurdle, I will probably sit on this uncomfy fence again. :eek:

Thanks, this made me smile. I will be sitting on the fence, too. Trying not to fall off. :crazy:

seagull65

09-01-2008, 03:37 AM

IMO, the fact that Casey did NOT abuse Caylee while she had her parents as a safety net was exactly WHAT allowed Cindy to feel like she could take the gamble that Casey having Caylee 24/7 might be just what she needed to open her eyes & start to APPRECIATE everything her parents did for both of them.

A little experiment to see if Casey would grow up & start to become more responsible.

I think that's why Cindy was able to resist chasing after Casey for a month.... even though she WAS broken-hearted AND missed Caylee, she figured Casey was just not letting her speak to her out of spite & Cindy didn't want to give Casey the reaction she probably expected.... to have her parents come get her & embarrass her thus confirming to all her friends how mean they were & how they always controlled everything she did.

Ooops.... sorry, you asked seagull. I'll shut up now. lol

I agree. I can picture it going like that.

Pondering Mind

09-01-2008, 03:37 AM

Well, I wish I could say that I was as optimistic as some of the folks here. While we all have our own opinions, none of us here know everything there is to know....yet..and we probably never will. My personal opinion is that Caylee is no longer with us..and Oh How I Wish I Was Wrong! Going to bed now and saying a prayer that tommorow little Caylee will be brought home.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 03:40 AM

Well, I wish I could say that I was as optimistic as some of the folks here. While we all have our own opinions, none of us here know everything there is to know....yet..and we probably never will. My personal opinion is that Caylee is no longer with us..and Oh How I Wish I Was Wrong! Going to bed now and saying a prayer that tommorow little Caylee will be brought home.

me too, Pondering Mind, thanks for your posts

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 03:41 AM

Cindy heard from Casey every day by phone, text messages, and emails, with the exception of a couple days where she could not reach her by phone.

That was Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

Do you have a link to information that disproves what Cindy said?

Cindy's concern was being out of contact with Caylee.

It's very obvious that Casey used Caylee as a weapon to hurt her mother & her mother responded by laying a little guilt trip on her ungrateful daughter.

I bet she even knew that it would have NO effect on Casey except to make her enjoy knowing how much she was hurting her mom but Cindy probably felt better after she vented at least.

Pondering Mind

09-01-2008, 03:42 AM

IMO, the fact that Casey did NOT abuse Caylee while she had her parents as a safety net was exactly WHAT allowed Cindy to feel like she could take the gamble that Casey having Caylee 24/7 might be just what she needed to open her eyes & start to APPRECIATE everything her parents did for both of them.

A little experiment to see if Casey would grow up & start to become more responsible.

I think that's why Cindy was able to resist chasing after Casey for a month.... even though she WAS broken-hearted AND missed Caylee, she figured Casey was just not letting her speak to her out of spite & Cindy didn't want to give Casey the reaction she probably expected.... to have her parents come get her & embarrass her thus confirming to all her friends how mean they were & how they always controlled everything she did.

Ooops.... sorry, you asked seagull. I'll shut up now. lol

No worries! I think you are right. The GP IMO could never have imagined any thing like this. I don't think as some do that they had anything to do with this. All I had to do was listen to that last 911 call to hear the anguish in Cindys voice. Now that was REAL. JMHO

seagull65

09-01-2008, 03:46 AM

Cindy heard from Casey every day by phone, text messages, and emails, with the exception of a couple days where she could not reach her by phone.

That was Cindy's testimony at the bond hearing.

Do you have a link to information that disproves what Cindy said?

No, I agree with this, that is what I recall from the hearing also. It doesn't conflict with what I was saying about Cindy posting on her myspace or facebook essentially 'why have you taken the baby away' and how distressed she was to be separated from Caylee. I was answering someone else's question there about did I think the grandparents would have been happy to take Caylee back if Casey had wanted to be free of the child, etc. I do think they would gladly have taken her back. my opinion only

seagull65

09-01-2008, 03:49 AM

In the hearing Cindy was asked to clarify that exact point, and she said she had always had text messages or emails though not always phone contact from Casey. In her 911 call it had sounded a bit more like Casey had really been missing for a month, though.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 04:00 AM

re: Casey "not wanting" Caylee:
Kiomarie (?) said that when Casey first found out she was pregnant she was not sure if she wanted to have the child, her mother urged her to have the baby. She obviously decided to have it. Kiomarie said she approached Casey and expressed an interest in adopting her baby. Casey did not take her up on it.

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 04:03 AM

Does anyone know when Lee moved out?

I'm wondering if Casey started to spiral out of control only after she didn't have someone in the house who could take her 'side.' Did she change when she became the 'only child' in the family.... did she become more & more manipulative & demanding without someone else to balance things out?

Did she LIKE being the only child & then start to resent Caylee for taking her place?

It's obvious Cindy is a controlling person.... not that this makes her BAD.... just that she's headstrong & seems to be rather unbending once she's made up her mind (in some ways she reminds me of my mom)..... I bet there was a lot of conflict with her daughter once she hit the teen years.

I still want to know more about Casey's behavior BEFORE she had Caylee. Was she just a typical teenager who maybe had a little rougher time than the average teenager growing up... or was she ALWAYS showing signs of abnormal behaviors?

I find it very odd that Casey had NO history of counseling that we've heard of yet... Cindy's a nurse.... IF as a child Casey was having serious problems, I can't see her NOT taking steps to get her help. Cindy took good care of Caylee, I'm sure she took good care of HER children's needs also.

If Casey's abnormal behavior problems started AFTER Caylee's birth, I can definitely see Cindy being befuddled & not knowing how to force her (as an adult) into counseling & being afraid to alienate her & make a bad problem worse.

Man! What a mess.

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 04:08 AM

Lack of body, for me, is a non-issue. There was DNA evidence in that trunk that proves Caylee's body was in it, and that her body was decomposing at the time. I trust the FBI labs, and I'm assuming that the OSCO labs have tested it as well.

What Casey believes is irrelevant. She's a POI in her daughter's disappearance, has been nothing but dishonest and unhelpful throughout the investigation. GPs are NOT reliable for so many reasons -- they are grieving, and denial is usually the first step in that process. We have -through their own actions- reason to question how rational they are at the current time.

The sighting in the airport does not help. It came from Cindy -see above- rather than LE, and when LE did look into it, they found nothing to validate the claim (no video footage, no pictures, no recollection of Caylee from ANYBODY other than the woman who had made the claim -- not security, not other passengers, not airport employees, not people who were there to pick up/drop off passengers). There have been NO confirmed sightings of his child since 6/15.

As for there being no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate towards Caylee,

We have at least one person who has stated to LE that Casey did not want Caylee when she was pregnant.
IIRC, in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child
Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate]
Letting your 2 year old sleep in the same bed with you and your boyfriend [when the relationship isn't serious] is, IMO, sortakindareally creepy, and _not_ normal
Dragging your two year old to poker parties, and putting her to sleep on the couch while people drink, smoke and do god knows what? Not normal.
Lying to people about who cares for your child? Not normal.
Waiting 30 days after your child "goes missing" -and all the time living it up and feeding people a steaming pile about how she's just fine and in the care of a nanny or her grandparents-, reporting her "disappearance" to authorities ONLY when forced to? Not normal. Not affectionate. Doing nothing but feeding the investigators who are pouring time and energy into locating your child, lies and hostility? Abnormal and cold.

Well said Unravel. There's so much "not normal" in this case it seems positively surreal - until I look at this picture of Caylee to remind me why I hope so much whatever happened to her, she didn't suffer.

IIRC, "in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child"

seagull responds: this would not surprise me for any parent, much less a 22 year old. Sometimes you have to miss things when you have a young child.

"Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate] "

seagull responds: Casey was just a teen when Caylee was born and still lived in her parents' home. Her parents provided care and financial support for for both of them. There are no reports of any lack of affection on Casey's part.

LI_Mom

09-01-2008, 04:14 AM

Does anyone know when Lee moved out?

I'm wondering if Casey started to spiral out of control only after she didn't have someone in the house who could take her 'side.' Did she change when she became the 'only child' in the family.... did she become more & more manipulative & demanding without someone else to balance things out?

Did she LIKE being the only child & then start to resent Caylee for taking her place?

It's obvious Cindy is a controlling person.... not that this makes her BAD.... just that she's headstrong & seems to be rather unbending once she's made up her mind (in some ways she reminds me of my mom)..... I bet there was a lot of conflict with her daughter once she hit the teen years.

I still want to know more about Casey's behavior BEFORE she had Caylee. Was she just a typical teenager who maybe had a little rougher time than the average teenager growing up... or was she ALWAYS showing signs of abnormal behaviors?

I find it very curious that Casey had NO history of counseling that we've heard of yet... Cindy's a nurse.... IF as a child Casey was having serious problems, I can't see her NOT taking steps to get her help. Cindy took good care of Caylee, I'm sure she took good care of HER children's needs also.

If Casey's abnormal behavior problems started AFTER Caylee's birth, I can definitely see Cindy being befuddled & not knowing how to force her (as an adult) into counseling & being afraid to alienate her & make a bad problem worse.

Man! What a mess.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 04:29 AM

some mental illnesses do have their first onset in the early twenties a lot of times, you never know...or drugs could have been involved, or simply the extreme pressure of trying to survive out in the world with a baby in tow, and no job and no preparation, all of these could have taken a toll on Casey. my opinion only p.s. or it could have been that absinthe

seagull65

09-01-2008, 04:41 AM

You are so right about the surreal feel of this case. Just because there are so many unanswered questions.

In response to the waiting 30 days to report it, acting detached and unconcerned, not seeming to realize she's gone, only stating and restating that she left Caylee with this nanny.....one person posted, I think it was here, that they believe that Casey was traumatized somehow, either that Casey discovered Caylee after a tragic accident, or that Caylee was taken from her, whatever the case, that something happened which left Casey traumatized and in shock, to the point that she won't let herself remember anything except that she dropped Caylee off at the sitter on a normal day (all the way back when she used to work at Universal). Interesting theory.

seagull65

09-01-2008, 04:42 AM

I wish I could remember who said it to give credit.

poco

09-01-2008, 05:37 AM

I, personally, don't want to wonder, speculate, second guess, hypothesize, even read this whole thread.... I believe Casey, whether accidentally or on purpose, killed that child. I believe Caylee was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead. I also believe Casey is a sociopath or a psychological liar or whatever you want to call her. If different evidence comes up that STRONGLY points elsewhere I may change my views, but for now I stand where I stand.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it is in all PROBABILITY A DUCK!!!

I say it's a duck with no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Misfit76

09-01-2008, 06:15 AM

Me too! I know & see what everything points too but I'll be darned if I am losing hope. My fragile heart cannot allow me too. I am extremely jaded after having a child. I cannot fathom what happened so I choose not too.

I couldve written your post!

ThoughtElf

09-01-2008, 06:54 AM

Fence Sitters,

Since you are very much doubtful that Caylee is gone, can you let us know that you're all putting this same amount of energy into either searching with TES, supporting the search in some manner or another, or launching your own efforts to search for Caylee?

Please do respond with details on this thread for all who are following.

Thanks in advance.

AZRiverRat

09-01-2008, 06:55 AM

Yep, Casey is one fine example of a responsible parent!
She made the right choice when she moved out of the home her parents provided for her and her daughter. This is a much better environment to be raising a child in, dont you think?
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/SeeDooXP/caseylovenest.jpg

Notice the extra body on the floor?
WHERE IS CAYLEE!!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/equalizeyou/2718633865

poco

09-01-2008, 06:57 AM

Yep, Casey is one fine example of a responsible parent!
She made the right choice when she moved out of the home her parents provided for her and her daughter. This is a much better environment to be raising a child in, dont you think?
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/SeeDooXP/caseylovenest.jpg

Notice the extra body on the floor?
WHERE IS CAYLEE!!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/equalizeyou/2718633865

When was this taken RR - do you know? Very interesting!

yolorado

09-01-2008, 07:11 AM

You are so right about the surreal feel of this case. Just because there are so many unanswered questions.

In response to the waiting 30 days to report it, acting detached and unconcerned, not seeming to realize she's gone, only stating and restating that she left Caylee with this nanny.....one person posted, I think it was here, that they believe that Casey was traumatized somehow, either that Casey discovered Caylee after a tragic accident, or that Caylee was taken from her, whatever the case, that something happened which left Casey traumatized and in shock, to the point that she won't let herself remember anything except that she dropped Caylee off at the sitter on a normal day (all the way back when she used to work at Universal). Interesting theory.

Has Casey, or anyone else, ever furnished a verifiable location of where she actually left the baby? Has Casey or anyone else ever come up with a verifiable location where Zenaida ever lived or ever cared for children, a place where Casey EVER left Caylee with anyone remotely related to Zenaida? My understanding is no. The apartment at the Sawgrass had been vacant for months. The police SAID to Casey at Universal that there was a security cam which gave no support to her dropping Caylee off as she said she did. The other houses where Casey told police that Zenaida and/or her mother supposedly lived over the years were duds as well, an old folks home, a place where Casey 'forgot' the specific address because she'd come their so many times but couldn't remember the specific apartment. Nothing there either. If Casey had ever dropped Caylee at Zanny's, could she tell police where? Apparently she couldn'd. In fact Casey admitted at Universal that all those addresses were lies, yet she never seemed to come up with a location where she did drop Caylee. Did she? If you want the police to find your child, shouldn't you tell them accurately where you last saw your child? She doesn't do that.

Where the heck did she leave her child? How in the world can anyone blame anyone else for 'not looking for Caylee' when her own mother won't even tell them where to start. I suppose she could have been zonked and forgotten, awakened somewhere at one of her parties, or in bed with one of her boyfriends, to find Caylee gone, but then why wait THIRTY DAYS to call the police if you're a good mother? If you woke up to find the baby gone, why not tell the police that- if you really wanted to find your child? Why waste time with wild goose chases when your child could be being raped or murdered as you sent searchers off in the wrong direction? No matter what the threat, you HAVE to get help if you really cherish your child, don't you? Don't forget, also, that it wasn't Casey who reported Caylee missing after 31 days, it was Cindy. For all we know, Casey, if undiscovered by her mother, would still not have reported Caylee 'kidnapped' after 60, 90 or 120 days. Reading her interview with the police, she doesn't seem to want the police to help. She lies. She admits every place she took them was a lie. She doesn't come up with any truthful information about a real location where she did leave Caylee, never has. How can that be? I would like to believe Caylee is alive. I would even like to believe that if she's not, it was an accident, but how can I believe either of those things when Caylee's mom won't provide any information to support either supposition?

Rose Mom

09-01-2008, 07:17 AM

I just wanted to add a quick thought

Casey was lying and stealing BEFORE Caylee went "missing" so the trauma/shock theory doesn't sit right with me

LadyBugz60

09-01-2008, 07:18 AM

When the family grieves I will grieve, for now I still believe Caylee was alive on July 5th and still is.
Feeling the urgency in CA's voice to 911 and the urgency in her voice when she called me about the tip, I cannot forget.
For me, WS has been so helpful, Thank you all even though the ones who slammed me on my first post, I'm greatful. Encouraged me to stay with WS to prove ME wrong.
So still on the fence, I guess, with very few, wish it were all over, till then everywhere I go I still look with much more awareness than ever before.
Thank you for this Thread!

Rose Mom

09-01-2008, 07:19 AM

For all we know, Casey, if undiscovered by her mother, would still not have reported Caylee 'kidnapped' after 60, 90 or 120 days.

This statement is true and bothers me to this day.... Was she EVER going to tell anyone?

poco

09-01-2008, 07:20 AM

When the family grieves I will grieve, for now I still believe Caylee was alive on July 5th and still is.
Feeling the urgency in CA's voice to 911 and the urgency in her voice when she called me about the tip, I cannot forget.
For me, WS has been so helpful, Thank you all even though the ones who slammed me on my first post, I'm greatful. Encouraged me to stay with WS to prove ME wrong.
So still on the fence, I guess, with very few, wish it were all over, till then everywhere I go I still look with much more awareness than ever before.
Thank you for this Thread!

Not sure I follow you or what I missed but are you saying Cindy called YOU???
What exactly makes you think that Caylee is still above???? What is your theory on where she is or who has her? Does Casey know where she is?

poco

09-01-2008, 07:22 AM

This statement is true and bothers me to this day.... Was she EVER going to tell anyone?

NO!!! I don't believe she was. I believe she was heading out to California and, while continuing to party, I think she would have cut off ties from her parents, telling them they were in California, but wished no further contact with them.

Rose Mom

09-01-2008, 07:25 AM

NO!!! I don't believe she was. I believe she was heading out to California and, while continuing to party, I think she would have cut off ties from her parents, telling them they were in California, but wished no further contact with them.

Exactly my thoughts she was going to California.... I would be curious to know if her computer turns up information on her looking at flights and their costs, I think the computer forensics are going to shed light on her plans

poco

09-01-2008, 07:26 AM

Exactly my thoughts she was going to California.... I would be curious to know if her computer turns up information on her looking at flights and their costs, I think the computer forensics are going to shed light on her plans

Too much information my brain is full, but as I recall or think I recall, she was driving out there with someone - can't remember who, though.

Rose Mom

09-01-2008, 07:30 AM

Too much information my brain is full, but as I recall or think I recall, she was driving out there with someone - can't remember who, though.

Oh wow... I missed that... my brain is on overload with this case

yolorado

09-01-2008, 07:35 AM

NO!!! I don't believe she was. I believe she was heading out to California and, while continuing to party, I think she would have cut off ties from her parents, telling them they were in California, but wished no further contact with them.

Pretty much agree. Casey doesn't seem to have had a plan to cover the disappearance at 31 days. Like you, I'm starting to think that maybe her long-term plan was just to party on out of state, hoping never to be discovered-- which isn't much of a plan and probably wouldn't have worked any better than what she came up with after 31 days....but then I don't think she's much of a planner.

AZRiverRat

09-01-2008, 07:40 AM

When was this taken RR - do you know? Very interesting!

Additional Information
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Pretty much agree. Casey doesn't seem to have had a plan to cover the disappearance at 31 days. Like you, I'm starting to think that maybe her long-term plan was just to party on out of state, hoping never to be discovered-- which isn't much of a plan and probably wouldn't have worked any better than what she came up with after 31 days....but then I don't think she's much of a planner.

July 15, 2007 or 2008????? If it was July 15, 2008, it was the day before she was arrested. Other events from July 15 are listed on this thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69953 post #20.

MBS

09-01-2008, 07:57 AM

IMO, sadly, Caylee is most likely deceased, and her death was most likely the result of Casey's actions. However, I recognize that this opinion is based solely on information I've gotten from the media and online forums, which may or may not be accurate. The LE have not released actual test results to the public, nor should they, and we really don't know what they have. LE have been known to release information that was maybe not inaccurate, but slanted towards the prosecution, to put pressure on suspects. Not saying that has happened in this case, just that it sometimes does. I haven't seen a statement that specifically said the hair found in the trunk was found to be Caylee's through DNA testing, and was also found to have definitely come from a deceased body. The statements I've seen say that the sniffer test determined that a dead body was in the trunk, and the LE are relying on the hair to conclude that the body was Caylee's. There is a subtle difference between the statements released and the conclusion that hair must have been determined to come from Caylee's dead body, through conclusive scientific testing.

Also, I don't know if this sniffer machine is always 100% accurate, and there are experts who disagree that it can be determined a hair definitely came from a dead body. Like I said, I have my opinions, but they are based on news reports, and are subject to revision. I recognize that I could be wrong, and surely hope I am.

websurfer

09-01-2008, 08:03 AM

I am asking
anybody from FLORIDA
Georgia
anywhere near there if anybody has gone missing or presumed dead from the area during that time?
Other than Caylee?
Has anybody whose body could have ended up in the car trunk gone missing ?

If so please list date they went missing or were presumed dead.

Within this timeframe..
surely if somebody else ended up in that trunk
and if it was not Caylee then who the heck was it and where is that person buried now?

LaLaw2000

09-01-2008, 08:49 AM

Not always a case of *believing* it or not. Can be a case of denying it. Even consciously. Some people enjoy being contrary. Some people enjoy jerking other people's chains. Some people particularly enjoy it in relation to a charged situation.

Disgusting when that situation is beautiful little 2 year old baby who's dead.

I just have to agree with you on this one, BeanE! We are talking about an innocent, sweet little Caylee here. Not defending Casey and her obvious lies.

I think you have sized up the situation quite nicely!

:)

LaLaw2000

09-01-2008, 08:58 AM

I, personally, don't want to wonder, speculate, second guess, hypothesize, even read this whole thread.... I believe Casey, whether accidentally or on purpose, killed that child. I believe Caylee was in the trunk of that car and that she is dead. I also believe Casey is a sociopath or a psychological liar or whatever you want to call her. If different evidence comes up that STRONGLY points elsewhere I may change my views, but for now I stand where I stand.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - it is in all PROBABILITY A DUCK!!!

I say it's a duck with no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Very well said, poco. As much as we hate it, sometimes we just have to identify the duck.

Given the overall facts we do have right now (even knowing that is not all LE has), it is a duck.

LaLaw2000

09-01-2008, 09:04 AM

Additional Information
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Anyone can see this photo

Taken with a Canon PowerShot A75.
More properties
Taken on July 15, 2007
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Supporters for the theory that Caylee is "alive and well" are more than welcome on this forum. It might be a good idea for them to start their own thread and discuss where they think she is is and/or how they can go about finding her. If they truly believe this, they need to get it together and start looking for her, too, and not just give us posts that indicate that they think she is still alive. It is their right to believe how they want to believe. I, however, do not agree with them and do not intend to change my mind.
__________________

BeanE

09-01-2008, 09:59 AM

No, I agree with this, that is what I recall from the hearing also. It doesn't conflict with what I was saying about Cindy posting on her myspace or facebook essentially 'why have you taken the baby away' and how distressed she was to be separated from Caylee. I was answering someone else's question there about did I think the grandparents would have been happy to take Caylee back if Casey had wanted to be free of the child, etc. I do think they would gladly have taken her back. my opinion only

Indeed it does not. Only with what you stated about Cindy and Casey having *no* contact during that time, Slick.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 10:11 AM

Cindy's concern was being out of contact with Caylee.

It's very obvious that Casey used Caylee as a weapon to hurt her mother & her mother responded by laying a little guilt trip on her ungrateful daughter.

I bet she even knew that it would have NO effect on Casey except to make her enjoy knowing how much she was hurting her mom but Cindy probably felt better after she vented at least.

No reports or evidence of this other than Cindy's facebook comment on July 3, and her 3rd 911 call on July 15.

Unless I missed something. Did I miss something?

BeanE

09-01-2008, 10:17 AM

Very true! And it does rile me up, (I have a grandaughter that was 3 in June and one that will be 3 this month) we all held out hope. Even though most thought that she was not with us anymore ...having it confirmed is just the kick in the gut. And the idea that this precious little girl is tossed aside like trash just is more than we can bear. So very sad!

It shakes me to my soul when children's bodies are tossed like garbage.

Hugs to you, Pondering.

RhondaIL

09-01-2008, 10:18 AM

Statement from John Anthony re: looking for a body - Time Stamp: 1:21 into video

http://www.wftv.com/video/17358012/index.html

amethyst221

09-01-2008, 10:20 AM

Lack of body, for me, is a non-issue. There was DNA evidence in that trunk that proves Caylee's body was in it, and that her body was decomposing at the time. I trust the FBI labs, and I'm assuming that the OSCO labs have tested it as well.

What Casey believes is irrelevant. She's a POI in her daughter's disappearance, has been nothing but dishonest and unhelpful throughout the investigation. GPs are NOT reliable for so many reasons -- they are grieving, and denial is usually the first step in that process. We have -through their own actions- reason to question how rational they are at the current time.

The sighting in the airport does not help. It came from Cindy -see above- rather than LE, and when LE did look into it, they found nothing to validate the claim (no video footage, no pictures, no recollection of Caylee from ANYBODY other than the woman who had made the claim -- not security, not other passengers, not airport employees, not people who were there to pick up/drop off passengers). There have been NO confirmed sightings of his child since 6/15.

As for there being no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate towards Caylee,

We have at least one person who has stated to LE that Casey did not want Caylee when she was pregnant.
IIRC, in recent months, Casey had complained to somebody about how she could not go out and party b/c she had a child
Casey did very little, if anything, to provide for Caylee at any point in Caylee's life [unemployed since 2006. Per Cindy's blog on 7/3, Cindy fed, sheltered, clothed that child AND provided for her with medical care. Taking no responsibility for your child and their needs is anything but normal or affectionate]
Letting your 2 year old sleep in the same bed with you and your boyfriend [when the relationship isn't serious] is, IMO, sortakindareally creepy, and _not_ normal
Dragging your two year old to poker parties, and putting her to sleep on the couch while people drink, smoke and do god knows what? Not normal.
Lying to people about who cares for your child? Not normal.
Waiting 30 days after your child "goes missing" -and all the time living it up and feeding people a steaming pile about how she's just fine and in the care of a nanny or her grandparents-, reporting her "disappearance" to authorities ONLY when forced to? Not normal. Not affectionate. Doing nothing but feeding the investigators who are pouring time and energy into locating your child, lies and hostility? Abnormal and cold.

So agree with your excellent post, but I guess it's also minimally interesting to see that the trial balloons floated by the defense are pretty much the expected. It's not difficult to persuade people to remain hopeful, even against hope, that Caylee might be alive, but getting any support for the defendant and her actions, or reaching so hard to find excuses for her, is going to be a really hard sell.

BeanE

09-01-2008, 10:26 AM

That's all fine and good. But I will hold off for the hard evidence. Especialy now that it's being reported they are not sure. Plus I think that if they were 100% they would have a briefing and not just tell some of the media one thing and the others another.

Shark posted that no one had seen Sgt Allen's video news statements. I responded that people right in this forum had seen the statements.

This post appears to be an attempt to distract from him/her posting an untrue statement as if it was fact.

Posting pattern noted.

jbar

09-01-2008, 10:29 AM

It is the ONLY Orlando media outlet reporting this . . .

Just want to point out that local6 is the ONLY Orlando media outlet reporting that weird myspace email/12 yr old girl hospitalized story too. They seem to report a lot of stores that are a bit "off".

jbar

09-01-2008, 10:49 AM

MamaShark, please watch this video. Near the end, Detective Allen, lead investigator on this case says (this is not a direct quote - but close) "Clearly there was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car, and evidence shows through DNA that it was Caylee."

http://www.wftv.com/video/17358012/index.html

ETA new link http://www.wesh.com/video/17354638/index.html

susiemc

09-01-2008, 10:49 AM

Very well said, poco. As much as we hate it, sometimes we just have to identify the duck.

Given the overall facts we do have right now (even knowing that is not all LE has), it is a duck.

The duck did it...

librarian_mama

09-01-2008, 12:09 PM

I thought the definition of a fence sitter was one who had not made their mind up either way.......you and a few others are only stating one side, not both.

By definition, are you sitting on the fence?

ETA: sit on the fence
to delay making a decision when you have to choose between two sides in an argument or a competition

Just got here today...ITA! I've been accused of having my mind already made up (guilty as charged!). The OP is just as guilty!

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 12:23 PM

Also check out the CHILDS pillow case!

I zoomed in on this picture and it doesn't look like Casey to me.

Tate

09-01-2008, 12:24 PM

When the family grieves I will grieve, for now I still believe Caylee was alive on July 5th and still is.
Feeling the urgency in CA's voice to 911 and the urgency in her voice when she called me about the tip, I cannot forget.
For me, WS has been so helpful, Thank you all even though the ones who slammed me on my first post, I'm greatful. Encouraged me to stay with WS to prove ME wrong.
So still on the fence, I guess, with very few, wish it were all over, till then everywhere I go I still look with much more awareness than ever before.
Thank you for this Thread!

Um, you must be a family member or very close friend???

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 12:30 PM

Just want to point out that local6 is the ONLY Orlando media outlet reporting that weird myspace email/12 yr old girl hospitalized story too. They seem to report a lot of stores that are a bit "off".

The 12 year old girl's mother made a statement and said that she'd called Cindy when her daughter was hospitalized and heard Casey crying in the background. I don't remember the exact words but she said she was disgusted by casey now. I got the impression because Casey showed more emotion for the 12 year old than for her own daughter.

JBean

09-01-2008, 12:52 PM

Um, you must be a family member or very close friend???
Not necessarily. Could be someone that phoned in a tip.

Tate

09-01-2008, 01:13 PM

Not necessarily. Could be someone that phoned in a tip.

"Feeling the urgency in CA's voice to 911 and the urgency in her voice when she called me (she being Cindy) about the tip, I cannot forget."

Is anyone else reading Ladybugz60 post the way I am? Why is Cindy calling Ladybugz60? Are you/is she a friend or family member, or just a devoted follower?

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 01:19 PM

You are so right about the surreal feel of this case. Just because there are so many unanswered questions.

In response to the waiting 30 days to report it, acting detached and unconcerned, not seeming to realize she's gone, only stating and restating that she left Caylee with this nanny.....one person posted, I think it was here, that they believe that Casey was traumatized somehow, either that Casey discovered Caylee after a tragic accident, or that Caylee was taken from her, whatever the case, that something happened which left Casey traumatized and in shock, to the point that she won't let herself remember anything except that she dropped Caylee off at the sitter on a normal day (all the way back when she used to work at Universal). Interesting theory.

What's surreal is how this case has unfolded revealing a web of deception that truly boggles the mind yet shouldn't because tragically, it is a common denominator or "marker" in so many other cases.

JBean

09-01-2008, 01:22 PM

"Feeling the urgency in CA's voice to 911 and the urgency in her voice when she called me (she being Cindy) about the tip, I cannot forget."

Is anyone else reading Ladybugz60 post the way I am? Why is Cindy calling Ladybugz60? Are you/is she a friend or family member, or just a devoted follower?
I was just guessing that the poster called in a tip, left a message and Cindy called her back. I have no idea just my impression.

Also, it is against TOS to try and reveal someone's identity so please be careful.

Tate

09-01-2008, 02:22 PM

I was just guessing that the poster called in a tip, left a message and Cindy called her back. I have no idea just my impression.

Also, it is against TOS to try and reveal someone's identity so please be careful.

I never asked for their identity... Only if they were a family member, friend, or follower, so please don't put words in my mouth... Also curious where, as you say "it's against TOS to try to reveal someone's identity?" I know it's against the rules to post first and last names, but if someone wants to reveal who they are, what's wrong with that? Link, please...

SuziQ

09-01-2008, 02:25 PM

Evidence Supporting Caylee is Alive thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70013

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:26 PM

I was just guessing that the poster called in a tip, left a message and Cindy called her back. I have no idea just my impression.

Also, it is against TOS to try and reveal someone's identity so please be careful.

In her first posts she said she called in a tip and she thinks she saw Caylee July 5th.
She called the Tips line and NOBODY CALLED HER BACK so she called Cindy.

Tate

09-01-2008, 02:29 PM

In her first posts she said she called in a tip and she thinks she saw Caylee July 5th.
She called the Tips line and NOBODY CALLED HER BACK so she called Cindy.

Thank you, Chicana. :)

JBean

09-01-2008, 02:32 PM

I never asked for their identity... Only if they were a family member, friend, or follower, so please don't put words in my mouth... Also curious where, as you say "it's against TOS to try to reveal someone's identity?" I know it's against the rules to post first and last names, but if someone wants to reveal who they are, what's wrong with that? Link, please...
It is not against TOS to reveal who you are. It is a violation to try and reveal who someone else is. I only asked that you be careful. You seemed as though you were trying to uncover personal information as to the identity of a poster. . We all value our privacy here. This information was offered in good spirit.

JBean

09-01-2008, 02:33 PM

In her first posts she said she called in a tip and she thinks she saw Caylee July 5th.
She called the Tips line and NOBODY CALLED HER BACK so she called Cindy.
Oh hey I got one right! Thanks Chicana.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 02:36 PM

Allen also said this yesterday...

"At this point, we are trying to hold some information close to protect the integrity of the investigation," Allen said. "But clearly, out job is to find her whether she is dead or alive."

http://www.local6.com/news/17354989/detail.html

I thought he just said she was dead.
So many flip flops, I think he'd make a fine presidential candidate.

Theonly1

09-01-2008, 02:52 PM

We don't know. Le doesn't offer everything in their hand right away, as we all know by now. Here's some food for thought:

1. The day the police were originally called, George was back there moving around the playhouse and looking under the slabs for any signs of "foul play" and Cindy was looking in the shed.

2. The dogs hit by the sandbox and it was later found out that Cindy had taken toys from the car and put them back in the sandbox.

this site has great stuff! http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

Are the facts for #1 and #2 in the discovery docs? If so, I think I might be missing a few pages! Also, like you mentioned, if Cindy took toys (reeking of decomp) and took them from the car to the sandbox them the dogs would hit on the sandbox!!!
T

Tate

09-01-2008, 02:59 PM

It is not against TOS to reveal who you are. It is a violation to try and reveal who someone else is. I only asked that you be careful. You seemed as though you were trying to uncover personal information as to the identity of a poster. . We all value our privacy here. This information was offered in good spirit.

Again, I only asked if the person was a family member, friend, or follower because the poster indicated Cindy called her. What's wrong with that? I didn't ask for their name, so your assumption that I was trying to uncover personal information as to the indentity of the poster is wrong. And, yes, we do value our privacy here. But thanks for offering your information in good spirit.:bananapowerslide:

Theonly1

09-01-2008, 02:59 PM

The lining of the nose and mouth oozes out in a fluid substance between 4 and 7 days after death as it "breaks down". In "tropical" climates this can occur more quickly...like in the trunk of a car in the Florida heat.

And the contents of the stain was precisely the lining of the nose and mouth (as reported).
T

JBean

09-01-2008, 03:01 PM

Again, I only asked if the person was a family member, friend, or follower because the poster indicated Cindy called her. What's wrong with that? I didn't ask for their name, so your assumption that I was trying to uncover personal information as to the indentity of the poster is wrong. And, yes, we do value our privacy here. But thanks for offering your information in good spirit.:bananapowerslide:
you are very welcome. :)

Theonly1

09-01-2008, 03:17 PM

[B]
[snip]
And with that you believe that she isn't dead? Or is it like an earlier poster said, people just want to be contrary.

Just a general comment here:
Some people still believe the earth is flat and that the USA did not go to the moon. A lively debate here is nice. Questioning evidence is acceptable. But arguing with someone who has a vastly different and entrenched opinion here is useless (imho). Those who tend to believe in science can calmly point out its strengths (and its weaknesses). Those who believe in fairy tales can do the same.

jbar

09-01-2008, 03:22 PM

That's a very good point. Some people still believe that dinosaurs are a myth and not proven as well.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 03:24 PM

That's a very good point. Some people still believe that dinosaurs are a myth and not proven as well.

Some people still like to wait for official confirmation instead of indications and beliefs before stating something as fact.

If it were fact I think we'd see murder charges right now.

krimekat

09-01-2008, 03:25 PM

Some people still like to wait for official confirmation instead of indications and beliefs before stating something as fact.

If it were fact I think we'd see murder charges right now.

I bet we will tomorrow . . .

jbar

09-01-2008, 03:26 PM

When LE is stating from their own mouths what FBI tests confirm - it's both FACT AND offical confirmation.

jbar

09-01-2008, 03:27 PM

I bet we will tomorrow . . .

Exactly. There is a deal on the table. You won't be seeing any charges until that has expired.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 03:30 PM

When LE is stating from their own mouths what FBI tests confirm - it's FACT.

Then it changes the next day.
I'm waiting to see if that's confirmed by any other new's sources.

I'm not saying she's dead or alive, I'm just not convinced they have what they're "indicating" they have.

jbar

09-01-2008, 03:33 PM

I'm waiting to see if that's confirmed by any other new's sources.

It's been confirmed by ALL news sources, other than local6. The other news sources named the deputy giving the comment and put him on video. Local6 did not name any officer.

jbar

09-01-2008, 03:36 PM

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange Sheriff’s Office said again Monday that “there is a strong probability” that Caylee Anthony is dead, noting that investigators have “additional evidence that has not been made public.”

Theonly1

09-01-2008, 03:36 PM

Does anyone know when Lee moved out?

I'm wondering if Casey started to spiral out of control only after she didn't have someone in the house who could take her 'side.' Did she change when she became the 'only child' in the family.... did she become more & more manipulative & demanding without someone else to balance things out?

Did she LIKE being the only child & then start to resent Caylee for taking her place?

It's obvious Cindy is a controlling person.... not that this makes her BAD.... just that she's headstrong & seems to be rather unbending once she's made up her mind (in some ways she reminds me of my mom)..... I bet there was a lot of conflict with her daughter once she hit the teen years.

I still want to know more about Casey's behavior BEFORE she had Caylee. Was she just a typical teenager who maybe had a little rougher time than the average teenager growing up... or was she ALWAYS showing signs of abnormal behaviors?

I find it very odd that Casey had NO history of counseling that we've heard of yet... Cindy's a nurse.... IF as a child Casey was having serious problems, I can't see her NOT taking steps to get her help. Cindy took good care of Caylee, I'm sure she took good care of HER children's needs also.

If Casey's abnormal behavior problems started AFTER Caylee's birth, I can definitely see Cindy being befuddled & not knowing how to force her (as an adult) into counseling & being afraid to alienate her & make a bad problem worse.

Man! What a mess.

I think when Cindy took to the Internet on July 3rd, CREATED herself a myspace and posted her message that she was telling it like it was. Cindy, if I am correct, references JEALOUSY as the reason Caylee was taken away--mentions jealousy twice.
For whatever reason, Casey was jealous of Caylee, or at least jealous of Caylee's relationship with Cindy.

cjcord

09-01-2008, 03:36 PM

I'm sorry, but this link: http://www.wesh.com/video/17354638/index.html at about 1:38 in, tells me all i need to know. That's FROM THEIR MOUTH, and it's good enough for me.

sweetmop

09-01-2008, 03:38 PM

Some people still like to wait for official confirmation instead of indications and beliefs before stating something as fact.

If it were fact I think we'd see murder charges right now.

The offer of immunity is still on the table until 9am tomorrow.
After that, well I think the process will start rolling.

cjcord

09-01-2008, 03:39 PM

Are the facts for #1 and #2 in the discovery docs? If so, I think I might be missing a few pages! Also, like you mentioned, if Cindy took toys (reeking of decomp) and took them from the car to the sandbox them the dogs would hit on the sandbox!!!
T

Fact #1 was indeed in the disc docs, LE asked to check the backyard and George allowed it, stating they had checked the playhouse and other areas for foul play. (that's when the depression was found near the pool- George agreed it was odd) #2...I cannot recall, but it does not sound familiar to me.

Theonly1

09-01-2008, 03:41 PM

Yep, Casey is one fine example of a responsible parent!
She made the right choice when she moved out of the home her parents provided for her and her daughter. This is a much better environment to be raising a child in, dont you think?
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/SeeDooXP/caseylovenest.jpg

Notice the extra body on the floor?
WHERE IS CAYLEE!!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/equalizeyou/2718633865

With all due respect, I don't think that is a picture of Casey in the bed (I could be wrong). Further, if partying after beer pong, or whatever these teens were doing, I would rather them crash on the floor that drive around Orlando.
T

SUR

09-01-2008, 03:45 PM

And the contents of the stain was precisely the lining of the nose and mouth (as reported).
T

"reported" where?

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 03:46 PM

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

“If any evidence to the contrary is provided, it will be vigorously pursued,” the statement from Capt. Angelo Nieves said.

How can there be evidence to the contrary ? Dead is dead. The only thing that contradicts dead is alive.

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 03:55 PM

Sources also confirmed that a stain in the trunk was not what clinched the decision that Caylee was in the trunk, but it was the strands of hair that investigators suspected all along were Caylee's.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

Does that mean the stain wasn't decomp and this confirmation is based on air and hair ??
I don't think hair causes decomp odors. This isn't the DNA evidence I was waiting for.
If the air showed there was decomp there has to be a source. Something has to cause the odor in the car for it to be conclusive. It's been almost 2 months, if there's something conclusive they would have it by now.

Theonly1

09-01-2008, 03:55 PM

"reported" where?

On one of the local news broadcasts (not recent). I will try and locate it assuming it has been uploaded somewhere (but it may take awhile). The technical terms for nose and mouth lining was used and I thought "Hmm, cells from the nose and mouth" and then the broadcaster then said, "from the nose and mouth"...that's why I remember the information.
T

impatientredhead

09-01-2008, 04:13 PM

Sources also confirmed that a stain in the trunk was not what clinched the decision that Caylee was in the trunk, but it was the strands of hair that investigators suspected all along were Caylee's.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

Does that mean the stain wasn't decomp and this confirmation is based on air and hair ??
I don't think hair causes decomp odors. This isn't the DNA evidence I was waiting for.
If the air showed there was decomp there has to be a source. Something has to cause the odor in the car for it to be conclusive. It's been almost 2 months, if there's something conclusive they would have it by now.

The smell in the car is from the gases the body releases during breakdown. You can research it but most of the gases are heavier than oxygen molecules and permeate and cling to everything around them. That is why you cannot get rid of the smell where a body has been without getting rid of most permeable surfaces.

The stain, which I believe they have said was blood, would not show whether it came from a dead body or not as the blood would begin to breakdown on its own regardless of its source.

Shavaun

09-01-2008, 04:21 PM

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange Sheriff’s Office said again Monday that “there is a strong probability” that Caylee Anthony is dead, noting that investigators have “additional evidence that has not been made public.”

The statement came a day after investigators for the first time on the record acknowledged that recent FBI lab tests indicated that Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead.

Officials did not say what additional evidence they have, saying the investigation is ongoing.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 04:24 PM

Casey is truly at the crossroads. She's already looking at a sentence of up to 17 years if convicted on the current charges. That's no small consequence but not nearly big enough in my eyes given the 31 days Caylee was missing without anyone knowing except her mother who still hasn't told LE what they need to know in order to find Caylee.

Will Casey take the State's deal? Personally, I'd be surprised if she did.

JBean

09-01-2008, 04:26 PM

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange Sheriff’s Office said again Monday that “there is a strong probability” that Caylee Anthony is dead, noting that investigators have “additional evidence that has not been made public.”

The statement came a day after investigators for the first time on the record acknowledged that recent FBI lab tests indicated that Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead.

Officials did not say what additional evidence they have, saying the investigation is ongoing.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html
I wonder if someone got their hand smacked for confirming and that is why they seem to be backpedaling somewhat. I am not implying that the test results are not positive for Caylee, but rather Allen revealed it prematurely.

tabbykiki

09-01-2008, 04:26 PM

I just have to say this thread reminds me of the Laci Peterson case. There were a few folks out there that didn't want to believe she was killed and that her "perfect husband" did it. That is, until the bodies washed up. It didn't matter about any of the circumstantial evidence, etc. they just wouldn't believe it. Then, they wouldn't believe Scott did it. It was devil worshipers or some other stupid theory.

This case has a lot of the same parallels. Here we have the "perfect girlfriend" whom her mom calls a psychopath to a friend. The FBI / LE have said the tests show decomp and it's Caylee's DNA.

It doesn't matter to some of these "fence sitters". They won't ever believe it until little Caylee is found. If and when that ever happens, we'll have a few come out and say there was no way Casey did it. I guess she's too pretty or something. Or they will say that it was an accident.

Why on earth is it so hard to believe that this woman killed her daughter intentionally? The facts we know point to this. It's a horrible world, but there have been cases where mothers kill their children. It happens. Why people can't come to the realization that's probably what happened here and Caylee is dead is beyond me. :waitasec:

jbar

09-01-2008, 04:39 PM

I wonder if someone got their hand smacked for confirming and that is why they seem to be backpedaling somewhat. I am not implying that the test results are not positive for Caylee, but rather Allen revealed it prematurely.

I think you are reading that different than I am. I don't see the implication that anyone had their "hand smacked" or that anythign was revealed prematurely. I don't see any sort of backpeddle.

I see the same statement they were making yesterday. They are not going to speak in 100% absolutes without a confession or body. There is a deal on the table - and they still want BOTH a confession AND a body.

I think some may be dissecting and picking apart the words used a bit too much. For them to state ANYTHING with 100% certainity, it could damage the prosecution and JB would have means to ask for a different venue. You will only see the trial lawyer/prosecutor doing so during the actual trials - not LE during an on going investigation. Tests confirming death, decomposition, etc does NOT mean they are done and ready for trial.

They have to hold some of their cards, they are still waiting for/working on a confession... if they point the finger with absolutes, they will seriously damage that. You have to listen to what LE IS saying... it seems that some here want it all right away. That's not the way and investigation, and prep for trial will work. They really don't have to tell us anything.

JMO

impatientredhead

09-01-2008, 04:48 PM

Casey is truly at the crossroads. She's already looking at a sentence of up to 17 years if convicted on the current charges. That's no small consequence but not nearly big enough in my eyes given the 31 days Caylee was missing without anyone knowing except her mother who still hasn't told LE what they need to know in order to find Caylee.

Will Casey take the State's deal? Personally, I'd be surprised if she did.

The limited offer requires her to produce Caylee.

She either can't because the body is in a landfill and she can't lead them to her or leading her to them would give them forensic evidence that she intentionally killed her child. This "deal" has been out there since late July, she has no interest in it and appears to be willing to play the odds that they either can't charge her, or that she might be able to beat it in court. And she might.

I think we will see an indictment tomorrow after the offer officially expires.

Without a body they will have to use motive and behaviour afterwards to show intent, but in most cases without a body they show intent by motive, they have to. In the Laci Peterson case they had the bodies and cause of death was undetermined, still got murder one based largely on his behaviour after the fact. He was clearly moving on with his life, had told Amber his wife was deceased before she was. Casey's friends have said she didn't want to keep Caylee, that her life would be easier without a child, they can easily show that Casey was tied to her controlling mother because of the child and Casey wanted out (She also seemed to want moms house- she may have wished she could get rid of them all).

SleuthyGal

09-01-2008, 04:48 PM

I just have to say this thread reminds me of the Laci Peterson case. There were a few folks out there that didn't want to believe she was killed and that her "perfect husband" did it. That is, until the bodies washed up. It didn't matter about any of the circumstantial evidence, etc. they just wouldn't believe it. Then, they wouldn't believe Scott did it. It was devil worshipers or some other stupid theory.

This case has a lot of the same parallels. Here we have the "perfect girlfriend" whom her mom calls a psychopath to a friend. The FBI / LE have said the tests show decomp and it's Caylee's DNA.

It doesn't matter to some of these "fence sitters". They won't ever believe it until little Caylee is found. If and when that ever happens, we'll have a few come out and say there was no way Casey did it. I guess she's too pretty or something. Or they will say that it was an accident.

Why on earth is it so hard to believe that this woman killed her daughter intentionally? The facts we know point to this. It's a horrible world, but there have been cases where mothers kill their children. It happens. Why people can't come to the realization that's probably what happened here and Caylee is dead is beyond me. :waitasec:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

yes, thank you for articulating exactly what's in my head. There are some who will never believe Caylee is really deceased unless her little lifeless body is placed at their feet. They might even question how people can determine that a lifeless body is 'really' dead afterall. There's hope and there's denial, and then there's this whole other level of denial that heads into outer space, not just a river in Egypt.

Caylee is dead and has been dead since June sometime. She just is. No other body was in that car trunk; no one at the tow yard put a body in the trunk; the fluids, hair, DNA, smell, air test all confirm a death AND tests show it WAS Casey....even if that thought is horrible and untenable for many. It is her. And playing mental/emotional games like "well the sheriff didn't come to me PERSONALLY and tell me himself" doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I'm sorry, but Caylee is deceased. She was never kidnapped.

SewingDeb

09-01-2008, 04:52 PM

ImpatientRedHead,

I think you're on the right track about her wanting Mom's house. I think Casey's parents were in danger but I guess they will never believe that.

JBean

09-01-2008, 04:53 PM

I think you are reading that different than I am. I don't see the implication that anyone had their "hand smacked" or that anythign was revealed prematurely. I don't see any sort of backpeddle.

I see the same statement they were making yesterday. They are not going to speak in 100% absolutes without a confession or body. There is a deal on the table - and they still want BOTH a confession AND a body.

I think some may be dissecting and picking apart the words used a bit too much. For them to state ANYTHING with 100% certainity, it could damage the prosecution and JB would have means to ask for a different venue. You will only see the trial lawyer/prosecutor doing so during the actual trials - not LE during an on going investigation. Tests confirming death, decomposition, etc does NOT mean they are done and ready for trial.

They have to hold some of their cards, they are still waiting for/working on a confession... if they point the finger with absolutes, they will seriously damage that. You have to listen to what LE IS saying... it seems that some here want it all right away. That's not the way and investigation, and prep for trial will work. They really don't have to tell us anything.

JMO
I only mean that yesterday they were speaking in absolutes and today not so much. I agree with your premise entirely and I am of the mind that the tests will tell the tale very clearly.
I think you just said it in your post and are kind of making my point when you said:
>>For them to state ANYTHING with 100% certainity, it could damage the prosecution and JB would have means to ask for a different venue.<<

Yesterday they said it IS Caylee's, today it is strongly probable or they cannot confirm. So, when I say hand smack, I meant along the lines of what you are saying that they shouldn't speak out in absolutes.

Themis

09-01-2008, 04:54 PM

The information that Casey told people her mother was giving her the house and Casey would take over mortgage payments bothers me. Since she and Amy were going to live there, it appears George and Cindy would not be living there. Where were they going to go? If it didn't have a shred of truth, what are Cindy's or George's responses to this? If the question has not been asked by reporters, why not? If George and Cindy were not going to move out, what did Casey intend to do with them? Casey implies it was already in writing but Cindy had 30 days to revoke and did revoke it. Where's the writing? All transfers of rights in real property are required to be in writing. If there was no writing and no deal between Cindy and Casey, was Casey planning something to make the house vacant? Is this some evidence, however slight, of Casey's capacity to entertain thoughts of premeditation?

SewingDeb

09-01-2008, 05:02 PM

The information that Casey told people her mother was giving her the house and Casey would take over mortgage payments bothers me. Since she and Amy were going to live there, it appears George and Cindy would not be living there. Where were they going to go? If it didn't have a shred of truth, what are Cindy's or George's responses to this? If the question has not been asked by reporters, why not? If George and Cindy were not going to move out, what did Casey intend to do with them? Casey implies it was already in writing but Cindy had 30 days to revoke and did revoke it. Where's the writing? All transfers of rights in real property are required to be in writing. If there was no writing and no deal between Cindy and Casey, was Casey planning something to make the house vacant? Is this some evidence, however slight, of Casey's capacity to entertain thoughts of premeditation?

How much life insurance do George and Cindy have and is Casey a beneficiary? How about their will, do they leave the house to Casey?

DAWN TREADER

09-01-2008, 06:28 PM

The limited offer requires her to produce Caylee.

She either can't because the body is in a landfill and she can't lead them to her or leading her to them would give them forensic evidence that she intentionally killed her child. This "deal" has been out there since late July, she has no interest in it and appears to be willing to play the odds that they either can't charge her, or that she might be able to beat it in court. And she might.

I think we will see an indictment tomorrow after the offer officially expires.

Without a body they will have to use motive and behaviour afterwards to show intent, but in most cases without a body they show intent by motive, they have to. In the Laci Peterson case they had the bodies and cause of death was undetermined, still got murder one based largely on his behaviour after the fact. He was clearly moving on with his life, had told Amber his wife was deceased before she was. Casey's friends have said she didn't want to keep Caylee, that her life would be easier without a child, they can easily show that Casey was tied to her controlling mother because of the child and Casey wanted out (She also seemed to want moms house- she may have wished she could get rid of them all).

Agreed. The state is playing its cards one at a time backed up by the findings of a multi-task investigation. Gonna be an interesting week, that's for sure.

Misfit76

09-01-2008, 07:54 PM

I am really bothered at how many people are insulting those who hold hope Caylee is alive. I chose to come to this site to discuss this case because it was supposed to be held to higher standards than the other similiar sites out there and that you could speak your mind and offer opinions without being belittled. Im not seeing that lately.

I have stated I STILL have hope that shes alive and I have my reasons. Let me expand on that because it prob wont make sense to alot of people but I do know theres a few others that feel the way I do.... I think Caylee is dead, and I think her mother killed her. I dont want to believe that shes dead, but I feel that thats the most likely situation and even more so now with more dna evidence coming out. I do believe science and that the tests done will prove it one way or the other. But I am a mom of a toddler, and I love my son more than life itself, I would die for him in a second. It makes me physically ill to think of a child being hurt or murdered and its very hard for me to accept. This is my own emotional issue and it causes me to have a hard time dealing with the death of a child under any circumstance. So, it is easier for me personally to keep hoping and praying that theres some mistake, something overlooked, that she is still out there. Do I feel deep down shes dead, yes, but I keep grasping at every little straw hoping thats not true and I cant help it. So for people to insult that or make snarky comments about those like me that cant help but hope shes alive even now, it is upsetting. I hate Casey with my whole being and feel that shes responsible for whatever happened to Caylee but being haunted with mental images of a dead child in my head, maybe its my way of coping with that to hold a glimmer of hope till I know her body is found.

Gram2

09-01-2008, 08:55 PM

Slowly sliding off the fence, and it's breaking my heart.

Boston

09-01-2008, 09:47 PM

Well the fact that no body has been found obviously helps a lot. The fact that the grandparents and Casey believe that the babysitter took her helps. The sighting reported in the airport helps. The fact that there was no history of Casey being anything other than normal and affectionate toward Caylee, according to the friends and acquaintances and family, that helps. The lack of motive also helps. Also the way the dogs alerted somewhat differently in the back yard...

LE has DNA & other evidence-They don't need a body

The Airport Sighting was checked-it was not Caylee

Casey did have a motive to kill Caylee-she was a burden to her lifestyle

Casey was not a normal parent-she brought Caylee to adult parties

The babysitter does not exist

And as far as the dogs alerting differently in the backyard - the only person who says that is Cindy Anthony

imo

CHICANA

09-01-2008, 10:01 PM

Slowly sliding off the fence, and it's breaking my heart.

I'm right there with you.
Why can't there for once be a happy ending ?

JBean

09-01-2008, 10:48 PM

I am really bothered at how many people are insulting those who hold hope Caylee is alive. I chose to come to this site to discuss this case because it was supposed to be held to higher standards than the other similiar sites out there and that you could speak your mind and offer opinions without being belittled. Im not seeing that lately.

I have stated I STILL have hope that shes alive and I have my reasons. Let me expand on that because it prob wont make sense to alot of people but I do know theres a few others that feel the way I do.... I think Caylee is dead, and I think her mother killed her. I dont want to believe that shes dead, but I feel that thats the most likely situation and even more so now with more dna evidence coming out. I do believe science and that the tests done will prove it one way or the other. But I am a mom of a toddler, and I love my son more than life itself, I would die for him in a second. It makes me physically ill to think of a child being hurt or murdered and its very hard for me to accept. This is my own emotional issue and it causes me to have a hard time dealing with the death of a child under any circumstance. So, it is easier for me personally to keep hoping and praying that theres some mistake, something overlooked, that she is still out there. Do I feel deep down shes dead, yes, but I keep grasping at every little straw hoping thats not true and I cant help it. So for people to insult that or make snarky comments about those like me that cant help but hope shes alive even now, it is upsetting. I hate Casey with my whole being and feel that shes responsible for whatever happened to Caylee but being haunted with mental images of a dead child in my head, maybe its my way of coping with that to hold a glimmer of hope till I know her body is found.
So you can probably imagine how the grandparents must be feeling.

You should be able to speak your mind here; whatever your opinion is. As long as we stay within TOS we can have any opinion we want and feel free to discuss. Just scroll by anything snarky or report.
welcome.

AlishaGail

09-01-2008, 11:02 PM

*hugs* all around...

Personally I believe that Caylee has died. I do hope that the end of the case will give us one of the biggest unsuspected endings of all time and she will be found alive and well. If that happens, I will love to give every kudos for stating their belief that she is alive--and more for truly believing it.

As far as the whole accidental versus intentional thoughts--I'm inclined to believe that an accident happened, and that's what I HOPE to believe. I have always hated to consider what babies go through when their parents intentionally hurt them, so this is the belief that I want to hold onto--that a terrible accident happened, and afterward Casey totally screwed up and has no idea how to fix things.

Anyway, I just wanted to jump onto this thread to see the theories and feelings. I have to say that there are definitely some good points in here, and in the end, it doesn't really matter what we all believe--the truth will simply exist, no matter how terrible...

Lisha

Cagney

09-01-2008, 11:12 PM

I agree that George and Cindy were both in danger. I have a feeling that was the catalyst for the entire abduction circus. Caylee was abducted and the kidnappers killed G and C and they leave everything to Casey. /jmo

TakingALook

09-01-2008, 11:36 PM

I think there is alot of things pointing to her NOT being alive. I try to hope that in some way that she is out there somewhere with someone.......but nothing we have heard points to that theory (except Casey's stating that she dropped her with the 'Nanny')

And this is something that I have wondered about for some time ........ The friend whom she said introduced her to the Nanny (forget their name....also this friend had a son) ??? Has this ever been verified from that friend? I have never seen it in a post.......thanks for any answers you might could send my way........ Did this friend really use Zany the Nanny and refer her to Casey????? I pray to God everyday that little Caylee can be found(alive or dead) and returned to her family.

Boston

09-02-2008, 03:17 AM

I agree that George and Cindy were both in danger. I have a feeling that was the catalyst for the entire abduction circus. Caylee was abducted and the kidnappers killed G and C and they leave everything to Casey. /jmo

As crazy as it sounds that thought entered my mine as well

Maybe thats why she was telling everyone that she would be getting the house soon.

Who knows.....She must have been planning something because she had to have known that sooner or later she would have to account for Caylee's whereabouts.

imo

CHICANA

09-02-2008, 08:40 AM

I am really bothered at how many people are insulting those who hold hope Caylee is alive. I chose to come to this site to discuss this case because it was supposed to be held to higher standards than the other similiar sites out there and that you could speak your mind and offer opinions without being belittled. Im not seeing that lately.

I have stated I STILL have hope that shes alive and I have my reasons. Let me expand on that because it prob wont make sense to alot of people but I do know theres a few others that feel the way I do.... I think Caylee is dead, and I think her mother killed her. I dont want to believe that shes dead, but I feel that thats the most likely situation and even more so now with more dna evidence coming out. I do believe science and that the tests done will prove it one way or the other. But I am a mom of a toddler, and I love my son more than life itself, I would die for him in a second. It makes me physically ill to think of a child being hurt or murdered and its very hard for me to accept. This is my own emotional issue and it causes me to have a hard time dealing with the death of a child under any circumstance. So, it is easier for me personally to keep hoping and praying that theres some mistake, something overlooked, that she is still out there. Do I feel deep down shes dead, yes, but I keep grasping at every little straw hoping thats not true and I cant help it. So for people to insult that or make snarky comments about those like me that cant help but hope shes alive even now, it is upsetting. I hate Casey with my whole being and feel that shes responsible for whatever happened to Caylee but being haunted with mental images of a dead child in my head, maybe its my way of coping with that to hold a glimmer of hope till I know her body is found.

This was a great post. Exactly how I feel but couldn't express. I heard the DNA evidence and I cried. I heard LE wasn't confirming and a little glimmer of hope crept back in, that maybe they were bluffing to get Casey to talk.
I see the pics of Casey and caylee smiling and happy and it doesn't fit with the Casey walking out of the house showing no emotion whatsoever. I watched that and thought, what a !#!#!, then I think, wait a minute, the only way she could act like that is if she thought her child was alive.
I really thought that after she got out, Caylee would be home w/in a week and if she wasn't she was dead. That week's up and still nothing.
I almost want them to give her full immunity or a short sentence, short enough that nobody has the time to forget because I think there are some people that are PO'd enough to take the law into their own hands.

I'd be happy to help with the alibi.

amethyst221

09-02-2008, 08:42 AM

I think there is alot of things pointing to her NOT being alive. I try to hope that in some way that she is out there somewhere with someone.......but nothing we have heard points to that theory (except Casey's stating that she dropped her with the 'Nanny')

And this is something that I have wondered about for some time ........ The friend whom she said introduced her to the Nanny (forget their name....also this friend had a son) ??? Has this ever been verified from that friend? I have never seen it in a post.......thanks for any answers you might could send my way........ Did this friend really use Zany the Nanny and refer her to Casey????? I pray to God everyday that little Caylee can be found(alive or dead) and returned to her family.

If you look at the discovery documents, you will find information about this. The Jeff person who supposedly referred her to the nanny, who supposedly kept his kid, has no children, never heard of Zanny, didn't refer her, and hasn't worked where CA says for years. I believe there was also no Juliet Lewis who was working with CA, or where CA said, since of course CA wasn't working anywhere. So it was all fabrication.

CHICANA

09-02-2008, 08:43 AM

I think there is alot of things pointing to her NOT being alive. I try to hope that in some way that she is out there somewhere with someone.......but nothing we have heard points to that theory (except Casey's stating that she dropped her with the 'Nanny')

And this is something that I have wondered about for some time ........ The friend whom she said introduced her to the Nanny (forget their name....also this friend had a son) ??? Has this ever been verified from that friend? I have never seen it in a post.......thanks for any answers you might could send my way........ Did this friend really use Zany the Nanny and refer her to Casey????? I pray to God everyday that little Caylee can be found(alive or dead) and returned to her family.

No. They interviewed the friend and he didn't know ZG and didn't refer her to anybody. I have no idea if he has a child.

tuppence

09-02-2008, 09:05 AM

I agree that George and Cindy were both in danger. I have a feeling that was the catalyst for the entire abduction circus. Caylee was abducted and the kidnappers killed G and C and they leave everything to Casey. /jmo

I wonder about this too. I think it's very creepy that she was telling people that her parents were letting her takeover the house.

I also wonder about Cindy warning Casey's long time friend Ryan very recently that she was a socipath. Those are strong words and suggest that Cindy was pretty freaked out about things.

ScoobyDoo

09-02-2008, 09:32 AM

I am really bothered at how many people are insulting those who hold hope Caylee is alive. I chose to come to this site to discuss this case because it was supposed to be held to higher standards than the other similiar sites out there and that you could speak your mind and offer opinions without being belittled. Im not seeing that lately.

I have stated I STILL have hope that shes alive and I have my reasons. Let me expand on that because it prob wont make sense to alot of people but I do know theres a few others that feel the way I do.... I think Caylee is dead, and I think her mother killed her. I dont want to believe that shes dead, but I feel that thats the most likely situation and even more so now with more dna evidence coming out. I do believe science and that the tests done will prove it one way or the other. But I am a mom of a toddler, and I love my son more than life itself, I would die for him in a second. It makes me physically ill to think of a child being hurt or murdered and its very hard for me to accept. This is my own emotional issue and it causes me to have a hard time dealing with the death of a child under any circumstance. So, it is easier for me personally to keep hoping and praying that theres some mistake, something overlooked, that she is still out there. Do I feel deep down shes dead, yes, but I keep grasping at every little straw hoping thats not true and I cant help it. So for people to insult that or make snarky comments about those like me that cant help but hope shes alive even now, it is upsetting. I hate Casey with my whole being and feel that shes responsible for whatever happened to Caylee but being haunted with mental images of a dead child in my head, maybe its my way of coping with that to hold a glimmer of hope till I know her body is found.

Thank you for posting that, Misfit76. That is exactly how I feel. I was really hoping to read this thread to find other theories about what may have happened. Unfortunately, I read through 20 pages of arguing and people being rude to each other.

MommaShark

09-02-2008, 10:28 AM

I am beginning to think that the hair that they collected from the trunk did not have the root attached. And I think they are still waiting on results for the stain. I continue to sit on the fence in hopes of a shocking revelation. Regardless we know there was a dead body in the trunk. Unfortunately or fortunately at this time we can not say that it was for sure little Caylee's. Please God send us an answer and a miracle.

jbar

09-02-2008, 10:28 AM

Finally local6 indicates that Caylee is dead, according to detectives. They name sources, and offer confirmation. This was the last hold out of news media sources. All media sources are now reporting the same - that Caylee is dead, and she was in that trunk.

http://www.local6.com/news/17362634/detail.html

ScoobyDoo

09-02-2008, 11:17 AM

Here is the exact quote:

"(FBI) laboratory evidence, along with additional evidence that has not been made public, leads investigators to the belief there is a strong probability that Caylee is deceased," the Orange County Sheriff's Office said. "If any evidence to the contrary is provided, it will be vigorously pursued."

The Associated Press. (2008, September 2) Police: Body was in car driven by Fla. girl's mom. CourierPost. Retrieved September 2, 2008 from http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080902/NEWS01/80902008

Poki

09-02-2008, 02:53 PM

I would like to point out that many statements reportedly made by LE have qualifiers, none of these statements have been made without leaving a way for them to backpeddle if in fact the little girl is not dead. Also, many headlines will read as if it is fact that the lab results are conclusive, yet the body of the article will have something like, indicates, strong probability, suggest that... LE imo is spinning things as much as the Anthonys. All involved with the exception of the search groups, are losing credibility in my view. I just cannot be certain, must be nice for some of you that can be so certain even when the experts are not putting their reputations on the line to say without a doubt the child is dead.

"We have scientific evidence back from the FBI lab,” Commander Matt Irwin with the Orange County Sheriffs Office said. “We have other evidence we have not yet released publicly, all of that evidence at this point in its totality leads us to believe Caylee is deceased.

Sgt. John Allen from the Orange County Sheriffs Office said,” There’s evidence to suggest there was a body in the trunk of Casey’s car and that body was Caylee’s”

and somewhere in the midst of it all we have a reported possible sighting said to be from Tim of the TES search but we have no link to read that report as yet that I know of.

jbar

09-02-2008, 03:45 PM

and somewhere in the midst of it all we have a reported possible sighting said to be from Tim of the TES search but we have no link to read that report as yet that I know of.

NO - let's stop the madness before it starts. That tip has been deemed NOT credible and it came from CINDY! The thread was closed.

CHICANA

09-02-2008, 04:04 PM

I would like to point out that many statements reportedly made by LE have qualifiers, none of these statements have been made without leaving a way for them to backpeddle if in fact the little girl is not dead. Also, many headlines will read as if it is fact that the lab results are conclusive, yet the body of the article will have something like, indicates, strong probability, suggest that... LE imo is spinning things as much as the Anthonys. All involved with the exception of the search groups, are losing credibility in my view. I just cannot be certain, must be nice for some of you that can be so certain even when the experts are not putting their reputations on the line to say without a doubt the child is dead.

"We have scientific evidence back from the FBI lab,” Commander Matt Irwin with the Orange County Sheriffs Office said. “We have other evidence we have not yet released publicly, all of that evidence at this point in its totality leads us to believe Caylee is deceased.

Sgt. John Allen from the Orange County Sheriffs Office said,” There’s evidence to suggest there was a body in the trunk of Casey’s car and that body was Caylee’s”

I agree. There is no positive confirmation. In fact Casey's delay in reporting Caylee missing, the lies and the fact she is still missing suggests Caylee may no longer be alive. They could say this without hair and air.

tttterri

09-02-2008, 05:13 PM

Here is the exact quote:

"(FBI) laboratory evidence, along with additional evidence that has not been made public, leads investigators to the belief there is a strong probability that Caylee is deceased," the Orange County Sheriff's Office said. "If any evidence to the contrary is provided, it will be vigorously pursued."

The Associated Press. (2008, September 2) Police: Body was in car driven by Fla. girl's mom. CourierPost. Retrieved September 2, 2008 from http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080902/NEWS01/80902008

That IF is putting me back on the fence. There could not be an if unless there was an if to the part they did reveal! jeepers...getting tired here. It's no wonder Cindy is having such problems.

DAWN TREADER

09-02-2008, 05:24 PM

The DA and Police being accused of a "rush to judgment" is a typical defense tactic. The cadaver dogs and their handlers will also be put on trial. Anyone that ever knew Casey and/or Caylee is also at risk of having the finger of suspicion pointed at them. It's called building a case of Reasonable Doubt. "My client didn't do it" SODDI (some other dude did it). I think the state and LE are awaiting the results of further testing to collaborate what they clearly believe the preliminary results show: Caylee's decomposing body was in the trunk of Casey's car.

MOO (my own opinion)

DT

JBean

09-02-2008, 05:24 PM

Here is the exact quote:

"(FBI) laboratory evidence, along with additional evidence that has not been made public, leads investigators to the belief there is a strong probability that Caylee is deceased," the Orange County Sheriff's Office said. "If any evidence to the contrary is provided, it will be vigorously pursued."

The Associated Press. (2008, September 2) Police: Body was in car driven by Fla. girl's mom. CourierPost. Retrieved September 2, 2008 from http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080902/NEWS01/80902008
the bolded sentence is quite interesting.
I guess that would include out of state sightings.

AutomaticAuttie

09-02-2008, 05:34 PM

the bolded sentence is quite interesting.
I guess that would include out of state sightings.

JBean,
What did you think with the LE questioning in the reports?

jbar

09-02-2008, 05:35 PM

"If any evidence to the contrary is provided, it will be vigorously pursued."

Of course they are going to say that! However, to this minute, not ONE. SINGLE. PIECE of evidence has been brought to light that would allow them to do so. But evidence is mounting HEAVILY in the other direction...

SUR

09-02-2008, 05:40 PM

I would like to point out that many statements reportedly made by LE have qualifiers, none of these statements have been made without leaving a way for them to backpeddle if in fact the little girl is not dead. Also, many headlines will read as if it is fact that the lab results are conclusive, yet the body of the article will have something like, indicates, strong probability, suggest that... LE imo is spinning things as much as the Anthonys. All involved with the exception of the search groups, are losing credibility in my view. I just cannot be certain, must be nice for some of you that can be so certain even when the experts are not putting their reputations on the line to say without a doubt the child is dead.

"We have scientific evidence back from the FBI lab,” Commander Matt Irwin with the Orange County Sheriffs Office said. “We have other evidence we have not yet released publicly, all of that evidence at this point in its totality leads us to believe Caylee is deceased.

Sgt. John Allen from the Orange County Sheriffs Office said,” There’s evidence to suggest there was a body in the trunk of Casey’s car and that body was Caylee’s”

IMO all the "suggestions" coming form LE are only meant to try to get Casey to confess to something. Let them suggest away but in court they will have to prove it and all their suggestions are going to make them look foolish when or if they can't prove it.

seagull65

09-03-2008, 01:23 AM

So far, despite the media constantly repeating that "the DNA proves there was a body in the trunk and it was Caylee", the authorities have not come out with anything stronger than "the evidence suggests", "there is a strong possibility that Caylee could be dead", "the hair is very likely Caylee's", etc. Tonight on that horrible Nancy Grace show that I may never watch again (used to like her), the forensics expert consulting on the show was trying to explain to Nancy that an air sample test is a long way from any kind of conclusive evidence, that it would be a "long leap" to go from that evidence and say that Caylee was dead or had been in the trunk. He also spoke about hair evidence, he said that "banding" (the dark bands that can form on decomposing hair), which is actually air pockets in the hair shaft, can begin forming in hair on a corpse beginning about 8 hours after death and continuing to darken for about 3 days. He said it is not known what other conditions may cause banding to form in hair shafts. He is not sure that it would only occur on hair that was connected to a decomposing body, it might also form on hair exposed to other conditions. He said he has also not heard yet whether it's been proved that the hair is Caylee's. While he was trying to explain this, Nancy Grace kept angrily interrupting and insisting that the hair has to be Caylee's because it has bands on it. She simply won't listen to anyone anymore. Like other experts, he wasn't saying that it's not possible that Caylee did die and was in the trunk, he's just saying that whatever evidence has been gathered, he'd have to see it admitted as evidence in court and hear all the details about it before he could know what it means at all.

seagull65

09-03-2008, 01:33 AM

Any evidence certainly will have to be scrutinized in court--not least of all the "cadaver dog" evidence. Who says there is any scientific accuracy in that at all? I know it's a popular notion and nice to believe, but who says how accurate it is at all? I mean, the dogs alerted on areas of the back yard. There wasn't anything there. So then, the rationalization that's applied is that the corpse must have been there but was moved, or someone touched a corpse and touched that area, etc, etc. There's some explanation regardless how the dogs alert. Well if it goes to court, hopefully we will hear what, if any, research has been done to determine the rate of accuracy of cadaver dogs noses. It's funny how quick some people are to just accept whatever new technique is used, though, no questions asked.

seagull65

09-03-2008, 01:37 AM

IMO all the "suggestions" coming form LE are only meant to try to get Casey to confess to something. Let them suggest away but in court they will have to prove it and all their suggestions are going to make them look foolish when or if they can't prove it.

Thank you for posting that, Misfit76. That is exactly how I feel. I was really hoping to read this thread to find other theories about what may have happened. Unfortunately, I read through 20 pages of arguing and people being rude to each other.

I couldn't agree with you more. I started this thread hoping this would be one thread where alternative theories could be discussed without harassment. But people got on the thread for the first many pages (just a couple of people or three people, but they post enough to bog the whole thread down), endlessly harrassing and not wanting any discussion to occur that doesn't conform with their view. (The one obvious theory that keeps being repeated in the media.) I was like, can't you let us have just this one thread that we can discuss on? Maybe now that this thread is off the front page though, folks can use this page for alternative theories now. We did get some really great posts on here though, where people with science background were discussing the actual chemicals involved in decomposition and whether there actually is any difference between the "decomposition smell" of a human or other animal body.

Post away with all your alternative theories, everyone. We want to hear them here.

AND, a whole lot of us are still hoping and praying that Caylee is alive and well. God bless her and may she be found very soon.

Oakley

09-03-2008, 01:44 AM

Any evidence certainly will have to be scrutinized in court--not least of all the "cadaver dog" evidence. Who says there is any scientific accuracy in that at all? I know it's a popular notion and nice to believe, but who says how accurate it is at all? I mean, the dogs alerted on areas of the back yard. There wasn't anything there. So then, the rationalization that's applied is that the corpse must have been there but was moved, or someone touched a corpse and touched that area, etc, etc. There's some explanation regardless how the dogs alert. Well if it goes to court, hopefully we will hear what, if any, research has been done to determine the rate of accuracy of cadaver dogs noses. It's funny how quick some people are to just accept whatever new technique is used, though, no questions asked.

Seagull, your observations are very astute. Wondering if you have background in forensics or law or medicine?

AutomaticAuttie

09-03-2008, 01:46 AM

Did anyone hear the question that was asked on NG tonight?

Oakley

09-03-2008, 02:01 AM

Did anyone hear the question that was asked on NG tonight?

Sorry but I missed NG tonight. Hear Cindy Anthony called in.

racegirl72

09-03-2008, 02:06 AM

I wonder about this too. I think it's very creepy that she was telling people that her parents were letting her takeover the house.

I also wonder about Cindy warning Casey's long time friend Ryan very recently that she was a socipath. Those are strong words and suggest that Cindy was pretty freaked out about things.