I thought it might be interesting to bring up the issue of ages with regards to Second Generation cyborg OCs. While I'm rather behind on all the OCs that are out there right now, it seems to me that a significant number of Second Gen OCs were 16 or older when they were converted. I know a few of mine definitely are. Gina's character is in fact reliant on there being a number of older second gen cyborgs around, since she's notorious for hitting on her fellow cyborgs but isn't the type to hit on lolis.

Now to a degree this tendency towards older second gen OCs makes sense. Petra is the main second gen cyborg that's been focused on in canon, and she was sixteen when she was converted. However the manga also indicates that Petra's compatability with the conversion process was unusually high for someone her age. This suggests that most second gen OCs should still be relatively young.

It also seems to me that people haven't made much use of the fact that the appearance of second gen OCs can be heavily customized. I know I certainly haven't made much use of that aspect with mine.

So yeah... are we generally pretty bad at "playing by the rules" with regards to second gen OCs, or is it mainly just me who hasn't done so well at it?

As Piero noted, Petra was implied as being on the upper edge of age for conversion at 16. That being said, the other canon Gen 2s look to definitely be teenagers. As such, I could see Fleccia (the redhead with freckles) being the youngest at, say 14,, but Gattonero strikes me as being 15-16 as does Soni. I would expect Kramman's unnamed cyborg also being 15-16.

Kara was 17 in Pactio and she'll be undergoing adjustments to make her look 21 in my next project.

Rachel was a Second Gen with a First Gen programming. This is because she was able to break the Second Programming because her connection with Fernando was too strong and fell into a First Gen format. All of that is moot since Fernando broke her programming along with Francesca and through Ferro, Claes months later and made them totally free independently operating units. The reason to this was because of the lies being fed to the cyborgs by the SWA would make them fail if they fell into that logic trap - similar to Hal 9000 error when government secrets caused it to kill the crew it had.

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Well, here's the ones I can remember right off the top of my head. I'll leave yours to you, Piero...

Sorry if I neglected to include anyone's OC, I don't mean it as a snub. If I'm wrong about any I'll make a correction.

Aisha is a Second Gen.. . .Ayden is only a few months old, its a cybernetically enhanced clone who's genetic template host died at 8. So Ayden's development in the vat stopped at the Host's development stage, and continued to grew on its own rate after it came out. She is considered to be 8 years old. She is technically a 3rd or 4th Generation cyborg from a biological construct (or lab grown clone).. . .Britney as I remember correctly is a First Gen unit.. . .Rachel started at 13 years old at Solution's Resolution, that part is correct. UN Resolution is 3 years later, making her 16 at this point, and its the merge point with the other OCs' universes with the exception of Danjo's universe where she is 13 along with Britney. Confusing, isn't it? Let me add to it: GumBall Slinger (a story that was started but never finished nor posted), Rachel was 14 1/2, hitting 15 at the end of the mission.

Fernando's original contract with the SWA was for three years, the years Rachel was 13 - 16 in the SWA. An extension to this contract remains to be seen.

Adding to the list the three girls I had for the Milan RPG were 14 (Elisabetta), 15 (Adelina), and 16 (Gina) at the time of their respective conversions. However within the continuity of that RPG their ages were 16, 19, and 18 respectively (Adelina had been around the agency quite a bit longer than the other two).

There's also Rosalia and Marisa, the intended main characters for a fanfic I never got very far with (I published one chapter (or was it a prologue?) and partially wrote another, but that was it). If I remember correctly they were supposed to be eighteen and seventeen respectively.

So I guess the ratio of young and old second gens for the board as a whole if fairly balanced.

So did anyone actually make use of the fact that second gens could be modified to look very different from their hosts? I don't think I really used that at all with the ones I came up with. (It might have been a good idea for Gina's handler to alter her hair colour -that blonde hair of hers makes her stand out a bit more than is ideal for someone who doesn't want to be noticed.)

@Piero wrote:So did anyone actually make use of the fact that second gens could be modified to look very different from their hosts?

I don't know if this counts, but nobody (save for some nuns in Dublin) knows what my Marisa looked like pre-conversion. She suffered burns over 100% of her body, and any photographs of her would have burned up in the same fire so Louis Duvalier had to completely create her appearance from scratch.

Yeah, Monty's a Gen2 and 14 when she was coverted (so 16-ish in years at the time of the story and about 32 in jaded cynicism).

Early on in her development I had her as some weird combination of Gen1 and Gen2 bits, but decided that was silly and eventually settled on her being straight Gen2, with a de-tune to give her longer service intervals.

@Piero wrote:So did anyone actually make use of the fact that second gens could be modified to look very different from their hosts?

From memory, Petra was altered since, as Elizabetha she had appeared briefly as part of a TV doco on the ballet school. The SWA therefore felt she was too recognisable.

I played with it briefly for Monty's hair (more as a sort of side joke than anything), but otherwise I think she probably looks much as she did pre-conversion... something I may use to complicate her life at some point. I think TPS's cyborg was customised to make her look stockier and more adult... at least her handler's official reasoning.

I did have an idea kicking around a little while back for a fratello where the handler had tried to get the SWA to build his cyborg into a perfect doll, looks and personality wise, but it all goes tits-up for him and what he winds up with somehow just doesn't fill the expectations he had.

I do believe that the second gens are basically from early to mid teens whereas the First Gens were toddlers(in Nuke's case...I think) to pre-teens. Personally it just seemed to be a consensus to us fanfic writers.

@boomer_gonz wrote:I do believe that the second gens are basically from early to mid teens whereas the First Gens were toddlers(in Nuke's case...I think) to pre-teens. Personally it just seemed to be a consensus to us fanfic writers.

My personal view is that the Gen2's tend to be older because the new conditioning gives the SWA that option to take more mature subjects with more mature minds (well, I'm sure that's the intention at least). I don't really see there being a lower technological limit.

As to fanfic, I'd agree that early to mid-teen segment seems to be well utilised by fanfic authors. Part of me however suspects that that's a case of people writing what they enjoy writing, and as most fanfic writers seem to fit into that age category or older we tend to write the older age group and hence we write older characters as those which are easier to relate to and create. I mean: I've no urge to write an 8 or 9 year old as my main character, I hate children.

My own two cyborgs (Victoria [converted 16, currently 17], and Mercedes [converted 15, currently 16]) were both made Second Gens for simplicities sake, as i thought it would be difficult to find a reason for two children to go to Iraq and fight with the Foreighn Legion (And 'cos 'Sandro could make them look older easier). That and it was a little difficult writing them as First Gens, i just found it hard to describe things that way a child would see them.

And as far as customising thier appearance goes, I touch very little on thier past, aside form that pre-cyborg-Victoria had everything from the chest bellow crushed, so she's mostly cybernatics. Would that make her more of a FIrst Gen than a Second Gen, you think? (If your trying to find my stories, don't. I haven't finneshed proof reading and edditing yet)

@Alfisti wrote: My personal view is that the Gen2's tend to be older because the new conditioning gives the SWA that option to take more mature subjects with more mature minds (well, I'm sure that's the intention at least).

Kara: Hell yeah! The Agency and indeed the Italian Republic is depending on the contribution we can provide with our mature and sensible minds!

Allison: Hey Kara, I finally figured out how to brew espresso with Red Bull instead of water! We are totally gonna stay up for a 12 hour My Little Pony marathon!

Kara: Ahem...could you possibly have worse timing?

Part of me however suspects that that's a case of people writing what they enjoy writing, and as most fanfic writers seem to fit into that age category or older we tend to write the older age group and hence we write older characters as those which are easier to relate to and create. I mean: I've no urge to write an 8 or 9 year old as my main character, I hate children.

One of the reasons I created a cyborg that can order from the kids' menu and a handler that is eligible for the senior discount. It's a character development challenge.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:And as far as customising thier appearance goes, I touch very little on thier past, aside form that pre-cyborg-Victoria had everything from the chest bellow crushed, so she's mostly cybernatics. Would that make her more of a FIrst Gen than a Second Gen, you think?

My understanding is that "second gen" also has to do with the form their brainwashing and conditioning is engineered. Considering the different sorts of cases the SWA doctors get to rebuild, I'd guess they can create just about any body part to one spec or the other.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:And as far as customising thier appearance goes, I touch very little on thier past, aside form that pre-cyborg-Victoria had everything from the chest bellow crushed, so she's mostly cybernatics. Would that make her more of a FIrst Gen than a Second Gen, you think?

My understanding is that "second gen" also has to do with the form their brainwashing and conditioning is engineered. Considering the different sorts of cases the SWA doctors get to rebuild, I'd guess they can create just about any body part to one spec or the other.

In that case, I suspect mine are Second Gens, especially since i added that little vomiting thing that Petra does when she goes against or disrespects 'Sandro. However, after some... carnage, for lack of a better word, Victoria's conditioning gets changed so that she doesn't do the vomiting thing, and she gets some First Gen style limbs (Strong but slow [relitive to the regular speeds and strenghs of 1st and 2nd]) so I guess she may be a hybrid of sorts, or a 3rd Generation since one of the few similariaties is a fierce desire to protect her Handler.

Last edited by Destroyer of Worlds ;D on Sun 1 Apr 2012 - 6:54; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : rewording)

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:In that case, I suspect mine are Second Gens, especially since i added that little vomiting thing that Petra does when she goes against or disrespects 'Sandro. However, after some... carnage, for lack of a better word, Victoria's conditioning gets changed so that she doesn't do the vomiting thing, and she gets some First Gen style limbs (Strong but slow [relitive to the regular speeds and strenghs of 1st and 2nd]) so I guess she may be a hybrid of sorts, or a 3rd Generation since one of the few similariaties is a fierce desire to protect her Handler.

I was under the impression that the "vomiting thing" was a broad-spectrum reaction the conditioning could give... or more I guess a result of running up against the boundaries of what their conditioning allows. The second gens just have enough leniency in their brainwashing to push said boundaries.

Ah, "3rd Generation"... now there's a subject of much debate

I've got to admit my impression was that the Gen1s were both stronger AND faster than the Gen2s... the trade off being that the Gen2s last longer, have more flexible parameters and are cheaper to produce.

I'd always considered it that First Gens are stronger, and thus can dish out and recive more physical punishment. Whereas the Second Gens was more swift on thier feet. S'pose i assumed this because Petra's a bit of an acrobat and she's the only Second Gen Mr. Aida focuses on.

On a slightly unrelated note, does anone know where I can a pic of pre-2000 Petra? I saw it once but haven't been able to ever find it again .

It's been stated within the manga that one of the goals of the Agency is to make cybernetic enhancement a mainstream medical technology.

It seems clear the hang-up is the machine-to-brain interface. The more developed the brain, the harder it is to work. So they started with young children and have now moved to teenagers. I expect the "third generation" will be young adults (people in their 20's) and it may be something I touch upon with my "Gunslinger Girl: The Next Generation" project.

In my "Original Series" fiction, I did have Claes undergo physical modification to age her from 13 to 19. Kara will undergo the same in my "Next Generation" fiction, though in her case it will be from 17 to 21. Kara will also have her hair color changed from black to reddish-brown (mainly because her physical model - Chiaki Kudou - has changed her hair color as she's grown older).

@Alfisti wrote:As to fanfic, I'd agree that early to mid-teen segment seems to be well utilised by fanfic authors. Part of me however suspects that that's a case of people writing what they enjoy writing, and as most fanfic writers seem to fit into that age category or older we tend to write the older age group and hence we write older characters as those which are easier to relate to and create. I mean: I've no urge to write an 8 or 9 year old as my main character, I hate children.

Eh, I don't like kids very much either, but adamantly and exclusively use first-gen OCs. Part of the allure of GSG (to me at least) was that the initial cyborgs were very young children; the inclusion of the second-gens seems to remove that uniqueness, almost turning GSG into little more than 'Kite/Noir with cybernetics'.

@Piero wrote:So did anyone actually make use of the fact that second gens could be modified to look very different from their hosts?

I don't know if this counts, but nobody (save for some nuns in Dublin) knows what my Marisa looked like pre-conversion. She suffered burns over 100% of her body, and any photographs of her would have burned up in the same fire so Louis Duvalier had to completely create her appearance from scratch.

Petrushka's appearance was altered significantly but she's canon.

Yeah, Petra was altered by a lot. She was made taller and her limbs to match that difference, her face redone differently, hair colored, and programmed to speak Italian. With the red hair, was her eyes changed to green to match?

At this point, I'll throw in Francesca. Though one of the first Gen Zero cyborgs in fanfiction, several things happened to her. During her original training, her facial features were altered to look like her handler so no one would ask questions about the pair. Frankenstein allowed her to keep her red hair and green eyes, but Francesca looked more like Felix's daughter than sister.

Most importantly, on her recovery and rebuilt phase, her original parts were replaced with second gen hardware, making her a 0/2 cyborg. Since she didn't grow as a cyborg but her body matured, her body and cybernetics was adjusted from a child's frame to an adult one. Being on the short side - at 5'4", Duvalier made her into a petite adult model. Fernando suggested this as an option since all the cyborg parts, though adjustable (when Triela protected Roberta), too much of an adjustment would have taken weeks for Francesca to get used too. Then there is the minimal programming she was given, because in her original format she needed none. But they screwed up on this and made her the loving caring ditz that she is.

Francesca is 20 in Solution's Resolution and 23 in UN Resolution.

@Alfisti wrote:I did have an idea kicking around a little while back for a fratello where the handler had tried to get the SWA to build his cyborg into a perfect doll, looks and personality wise, but it all goes tits-up for him and what he winds up with somehow just doesn't fill the expectations he had.

Francesca: Does she close her eyes when you lay her down?

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@Officer_Charon wrote:The pathos of prepubescents is stronger than that of teenagers, making for a stronger story.

Also, Rico blood-punching Padania is better than Petra, or any of the other canon Gen 2s, IMHO

We have always speculated that a first gen cyborg was 10 stronger than an average adult male and the second gen cyborgs five times stronger than an adult male but still more than enough to kill a man with her bare hands. Remember, in the early volumes of GsG, Petra jumped 30ft up and 40 or 50ft out with a computer disk between her lips to meet up with Allessandro. In the crash on the balcony, he complained to her that she was heavy.

As much as I like it that my OC Emilie gets mentioned somewhere, i have to correct some details. She is NOT an 2nd Gen, Emilie is a 1st gen, and by the way the only goth-borg of the agency

Originally planned as replacement for some of the fallen cyborgs of the Turin battle but also kind of test subject for a different medication (which unfortunatly caused her alot of problems).For the facial rebuild and such: Emilie looks more or less exactly the same as before, (perhaps Etienne's wish? who knows). She has the same skin color (a very pale white), the same eyes (sky blue) and the same hair color (ravenblack!).

She was a girl of 13 years before and didn't have been aged during the process, so she still is 13 (visually).

I don't know where it had come from but somehow I developed a pretty dark personality, sarcasm and irony are my friends, torturing and fooling everybody is my hobby and I wear almost only black....am I strange?-Schaschanist-

Je suis juste un petit fille de goth.-Emilie Valerie De Laroque-

Schaschanist

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@Nachtsider wrote:Eh, I don't like kids very much either, but adamantly and exclusively use first-gen OCs. Part of the allure of GSG (to me at least) was that the initial cyborgs were very young children; the inclusion of the second-gens seems to remove that uniqueness, almost turning GSG into little more than 'Kite/Noir with cybernetics'.

Fair enough too. I'll admit I also found the Gen2s a little too "normal" to fit with the mood of the series. One of the aspects I enjoyed of it was the strange artificial childhood the Gen1s seemed to have: childhood as viewed by adults, it made the whole thing quite surreal and unsettleing.

I guess with Monty I went somewhat the other way: pushing her into an early adulthood.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Britney as I remember correctly is a First Gen unit.

Since Britney came after Petra, it didn’t make much sense making her a first generation, so I ended up switching her.

@ElfenMagix wrote:UN Resolution is 3 years later, making her 16 at this point, and its the merge point with the other OCs' universes with the exception of Danjo's universe where she is 13 along with Britney.

Interesting discussion, I'd say Elfen pegged Ayden on just right, the only thing I can say is to expand a bit on what he said because I imagine that it's something similar to the Robocop 2 movie, where OCP was testing different possible future designs. The Agency anticipated greater resistance by the enemy an was trying to stay one step ahead of them by creating what they hoped would be the next-level combat weapon. Ayden was a one off prototype that doesn't quite fit the description of a cyborg, rather she is what could be called a cy-droid, synthetic human right down to the modified DNA so like Elfen said a 3rd or 4th gen classification might be right. Unlike the other cyborgs, she has no organic components, no parents or siblings to wonder about, she was never 'born' only manufactured, patterned after a much altered human which was the secret experiment of one of the SWA engineers who kept his evil pet project to himself. (I love the idea that there could exist monsters worse than the terrorists right smack in the Agency without anyone being the wiser only to be unsettled afterwards when the truth comes out. Then again, some agents might be like: 'heh figures, in this place one never knows what to expect!' ) So basically ditto, right on the money. Oh, an Helen is 10. I guess I consider her a 1st gen design: tougher, (slower maybe? I dunno, I'm not sure myself what to conclude on that score), anyway more conditioning, less life expectancy.

tremec6speed

Forum Posts : 1977

Fan of : Lauro and Olga!

Original Characters : Vinson/Helen/Salvatore + Gunther/Ayden. Baddies are a small group of 'techno-anarchists'

Comments : I hope to include a short illustrated fanfic story of both Mr. Yutaka Aida's characters as well as some I've come up with.