The first time I clicked on this link, I got logged off of my computer (I'm using Firefox 3.6.18 on CentOS Linux). I kid you not. The second time I clicked on it, I got a blank page. Is anyone else having problems with this link?

The first time I clicked on this link, I got logged off of my computer (I'm using Firefox 3.6.18 on CentOS Linux). I kid you not. The second time I clicked on it, I got a blank page. Is anyone else having problems with this link?

That's a highly unsound assumption. These are clearly bugs in Firefox
... an old version for Russ, and ... who knows, for you, since you
don't seem to think the version matters. No amount of testing by a
"web designer" (an odd term in re the Parleys presentation software)
can do away with bugs in old versions of browsers that cause them to
freeze, or even crash a login session, nor can it be *assumed* that
"corporate policy" resulted in inadequate testing of Firefox 3.6 such
that it crashes when running "The Next Generation eLearning Platform"
that may not have even been deployed when Firefox 3.6 was released.
And for all we know, these bugs are only exposed when Firefox is
loaded with certain extensions present in your and Russ's
configurations ... no amount of testing is "adequate" to guarantee
that all combinations of moving parts from different providers will
work, and even when testing does show that some don't work, no
provider can afford to withhold their product until all other
providers fix all bugs that might cause their own product to result in
a malfunction.

The first time I clicked on this link, I got logged off of my computer (I'm using Firefox 3.6.18 on CentOS Linux). I kid you not. The second time I clicked on it, I got a blank page. Is anyone else having problems with this link?

On 07/17/2011 07:44 PM, Jim Balter wrote:
> That's a highly unsound assumption. These are clearly bugs in Firefox
> ... an old version for Russ, and ... who knows, for you, since you
> don't seem to think the version matters. No amount of testing by a
> "web designer" (an odd term in re the Parleys presentation software)
> can do away with bugs in old versions of browsers that cause them to
> freeze, or even crash a login session, nor can it be *assumed* that
> "corporate policy" resulted in inadequate testing of Firefox 3.6 such
> that it crashes when running "The Next Generation eLearning Platform"
> that may not have even been deployed when Firefox 3.6 was released.
> And for all we know, these bugs are only exposed when Firefox is
> loaded with certain extensions present in your and Russ's
> configurations ... no amount of testing is "adequate" to guarantee
> that all combinations of moving parts from different providers will
> work, and even when testing does show that some don't work, no
> provider can afford to withhold their product until all other
> providers fix all bugs that might cause their own product to result in
> a malfunction.
>

I think the people who did the Parlays site forgot about the KISS principle. Over-engineered site that ought to look really nice and flashy except, takes up way to many client-side resources, and fails to work properly on all os/hw/browser combinations.
The idea (suggested somewhere up in the thread) that it would actually be necessary to test all possible os/hw/browser/browser-plugins combinations to isolate a bug is a bad smell. It really doesn't have to be that complicated. At the most, I need a video player with synchronized slideshow. I know that's not trivial, but it's maybe about 1 hundredth of the Parleys "user experience". Infoq pulls it off quite nicely without all the extra fuss.
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:42 AM, richard emberson <richard [dot] emberson [at] gmail [dot] com> wrote:

Firefox 5.0

On 07/17/2011 07:44 PM, Jim Balter wrote:

That's a highly unsound assumption. These are clearly bugs in Firefox
... an old version for Russ, and ... who knows, for you, since you
don't seem to think the version matters. No amount of testing by a
"web designer" (an odd term in re the Parleys presentation software)
can do away with bugs in old versions of browsers that cause them to
freeze, or even crash a login session, nor can it be *assumed* that
"corporate policy" resulted in inadequate testing of Firefox 3.6 such
that it crashes when running "The Next Generation eLearning Platform"
that may not have even been deployed when Firefox 3.6 was released.
And for all we know, these bugs are only exposed when Firefox is
loaded with certain extensions present in your and Russ's
configurations ... no amount of testing is "adequate" to guarantee
that all combinations of moving parts from different providers will
work, and even when testing does show that some don't work, no
provider can afford to withhold their product until all other
providers fix all bugs that might cause their own product to result in
a malfunction.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 7:00 AM, john sullivan wrote:
> I think the people who did the Parlays site forgot about the KISS principle.
> Over-engineered site that ought to look really nice and flashy except, takes
> up way to many client-side resources, and fails to work properly on all
> os/hw/browser combinations.
> The idea (suggested somewhere up in the thread) that it would actually be
> necessary to test all possible os/hw/browser/browser-plugins combinations to
> isolate a bug is a bad smell.

That's a misunderstanding. My comment was in response to the
*assumption* that the reason this doesn't work for some people is a
result of lack *attitudes* toward testing. The notion that the
application may be over-engineered and thus *require* more extensive
combinatory testing than would otherwise be necessary is a quite
different issue. As for that issue: the Parleys app works fine on my
system and provides useful features that I appreciate. I find all
arguments of the form "it doesn't work on my setup therefore [grand
conclusion about software engineering]" to be presumptuous and a bit
silly.

> It really doesn't have to be that complicated.
> At the most, I need a video player with synchronized slideshow. I know
> that's not trivial, but it's maybe about 1 hundredth of the Parleys "user
> experience". Infoq pulls it off quite nicely without all the extra fuss.
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:42 AM, richard emberson
> wrote:
>>
>> Firefox 5.0
>>
>> On 07/17/2011 07:44 PM, Jim Balter wrote:
>>>
>>> That's a highly unsound assumption. These are clearly bugs in Firefox
>>> ... an old version for Russ, and ... who knows, for you, since you
>>> don't seem to think the version matters. No amount of testing by a
>>> "web designer" (an odd term in re the Parleys presentation software)
>>> can do away with bugs in old versions of browsers that cause them to
>>> freeze, or even crash a login session, nor can it be *assumed* that
>>> "corporate policy" resulted in inadequate testing of Firefox 3.6 such
>>> that it crashes when running "The Next Generation eLearning Platform"
>>> that may not have even been deployed when Firefox 3.6 was released.
>>> And for all we know, these bugs are only exposed when Firefox is
>>> loaded with certain extensions present in your and Russ's
>>> configurations ... no amount of testing is "adequate" to guarantee
>>> that all combinations of moving parts from different providers will
>>> work, and even when testing does show that some don't work, no
>>> provider can afford to withhold their product until all other
>>> providers fix all bugs that might cause their own product to result in
>>> a malfunction.
>>>
>>> -- Jim
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 12:23 PM, richard emberson
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yea, I use Fedora and Firefox.
>>>> I get a flash parleys page thats bascially frozen, does
>>>> not redraw of respond to key/mouse events. Though, I
>>>> can kill the Firefox tab.
>>>>
>>>> I assume the problem is the web designer or corporate
>>>> policy that does not do or encourage adequate testing.
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>> On 07/17/2011 11:53 AM, Russ Paielli wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The first time I clicked on this link, I got logged off of my computer
>>>>> (I'm using Firefox 3.6.18 on CentOS Linux). I kid you not. The second
>>>>> time I clicked on it, I got a blank page. Is anyone else having
>>>>> problems
>>>>> with this link?
>>>>>
>>>>> --Russ P.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Pasturel>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> For information:
>>>>> http://www.parleys.com/#st=5&__id=2184
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://RussP.us
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
>
>
>
> --
> There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
> Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
>

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Jim Balter wrote:
> system and provides useful features that I appreciate. I find all
> arguments of the form "it doesn't work on my setup therefore [grand
> conclusion about software engineering]" to be presumptuous and a bit
> silly.

hah! i find all arguments of the form "it worked on my machine" to be
narrow-minded, and devoid of empathy for others, and lacking
understanding of the complexity and thus general shittyness of
computer systems! :-)

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Raoul Duke wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Jim Balter wrote:
>> system and provides useful features that I appreciate. I find all
>> arguments of the form "it doesn't work on my setup therefore [grand
>> conclusion about software engineering]" to be presumptuous and a bit
>> silly.
>
> hah! i find all arguments of the form "it worked on my machine" to be
> narrow-minded, and devoid of empathy for others, and lacking
> understanding of the complexity and thus general shittyness of
> computer systems! :-)
>
> sincerely.
>

An argument contains a "therefore", but I didn't argue that "it worked
on my machine" *therefore* anything. If it didn't work on my machine,
I would be unhappy about it, and I have empathy for those who do ...
but I would be cautious about my assumptions as to why it didn't work
and what wider implications that may have.

Is it really necessary to prolong an already-ended exchange by smugly
asking that on the Scala user list?
Anyway, you should direct that to the original OT post about Parleys'
engineering practices, which have nothing to do with Scala.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Brian Schlining wrote:
> Is it really necessary to have this argument on the Scala user list?
>
> --
> Brian Schlining
>
>
> On Monday, July 18, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Jim Balter wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Raoul Duke wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Jim Balter wrote:
>> > > system and provides useful features that I appreciate. I find all
>> > > arguments of the form "it doesn't work on my setup therefore [grand
>> > > conclusion about software engineering]" to be presumptuous and a bit
>> > > silly.
>> >
>> > hah! i find all arguments of the form "it worked on my machine" to be
>> > narrow-minded, and devoid of empathy for others, and lacking
>> > understanding of the complexity and thus general shittyness of
>> > computer systems! :-)
>> >
>> > sincerely.
>>
>> An argument contains a "therefore", but I didn't argue that "it worked
>> on my machine" *therefore* anything. If it didn't work on my machine,
>> I would be unhappy about it, and I have empathy for those who do ...
>> but I would be cautious about my assumptions as to why it didn't work
>> and what wider implications that may have.
>
>
>