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Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Originally Posted by @llli*mommal

So, how is baby doing aside from poop color and aside from fussiness? Is she gaining weight? Is she showing any symptoms of allergy (e.g. eczema, hives, a red ring around her anus)? Is she developing as expected? Is she generally nursing happily, or is she still being very fussy? If she's fussy, can you describe the behavior that you're seeing?

She has recently developed a nappy rash, but I think this might be a result of being in the same nappy all night. She does, however, seem to have a faint red ring around the anus - is that a sign of an allergy?

re: weight gain, she's consistently gaining about 300-400 g every two weeks. Her birth weight was 3.63kgs (8 lbs) and at 14 weeks she was 6.38 (14 lbs).

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

I started trying different things to increase production: mainly drinking herbal lactation teas, taking fenugreek (2 x capsules 3 times a day) and pumping to have milk for the evening.

This really makes me wonder about oversupply. If you pumped/fenugreeked yourself into a big supply, it's possible that the green poops you're seeing now stem from overproduction or are a lingering effect of past overproduction and the intestinal irritation that can result from lactose overload (i.e. too much foremilk).

Do food intolerances develop over time?

Yes. Most people- including babies- do not have an allergic reaction the first time they encounter a problem food. It takes a few exposures before reactions develop.

The LO is now 3 months and 11 days. She seems to eat roughly every hour (I'm saying roughly because I don't really look at the clock much during the day) and in between feedings she's quite a happy baby, smiles, coos and gurgles.

This is terrific! Her eating frequency is 100% normal. And a baby who was having problems wouldn't be cooing and smiling and happy between feedings.

What concerns me is that she often pulls off the breast and starts crying and it's hard to latch her on again as she pulls away again. If that happens I try to get her upright and sometimes this results in a big burp and I can latch her on again. Sometimes she pulls away and cries until she finally does a poo (so she's probably crying because she finds it hard/painful to make a poo?). Sometimes there is no reason and only carrying her for a few minutes around the house calms her down.

This is very normal behavior for a 3 month old. When she pulls off the breast, she could be done eating. Or, as you have discovered, she may have a burp or a poop that she needs to get out. Babies often find burping, passing gas, or pooping to be rather distressing. There's actually a whole series of muscular actions that babies have to learn in order to coordinate eating and the expulsion of gas or poop- this is a lifelong skill your baby is learning right now!

I know that baby poos tend to be quite loose, but LO's are often quite watery. I'm not really sure whether this is a cause for concern or not?

Not in an otherwise happy, healthy baby.

I have to say I'm quite confused when it comes to switching baby from breast to breast or offering the other breast.
All sources say: wait until baby finishes one breast and then switch to the other one, but how am I to judge when she is truly finished?

I think the way to deal with this is to not worry much about it. Think of the "finish the first breast first" thing as a rough guideline. You don't have to get it exactly right every single time you nurse. Let baby nurse as much as she wants on breast A. When she comes off of breast A on her own, or seems to be falling asleep at breast A, then offer breast B. She may refuse breast B. She may take breast B, but only have a little sip. She may take breast B and polish it off and cry for more, in which case you can swap breast A back in.

I know I should not do block feeding because that's used to actually decrease the amount of milk produced but at the same time I want to switch LO from breast to breast too often as I fear she'll then get more foremilk and not enough hindmilk.

Sometimes I wish that the terms foremilk and hindmilk had never been invented. Because so many moms share your fear- that baby is getting "too much foremilk" and "not enough hindmilk". But the truth of the matter is that all milk contains everything a baby needs for healthy development. If a baby ate nothing but the so-called foremilk, she would still grow totally normally provided she got enough of it. She might be more gassy than average and have a lot of green poops, but those are not health problems. Just variations of normal.

I often have a feeling that LO gets full quickly on too much foremilk and she's not interested in eating more (but I can see that there's still milk there and it's whiter, less translucent than the milk that comes out of the breast at the beginning of the feed). Then, because foremilk doesn't keep LO full for long she is hungry again, so I offer her the same breast she was on before - is that the right strategy?

As long as you are willing to swap baby onto the other side if she finishes the first breast and still seems hungry, there's nothing wrong with this strategy. Just remember that not going long between feedings is 100% normal for young babies- breastmilk digests fast and completely, and infant tummies are tiny!

She has recently developed a nappy rash, but I think this might be a result of being in the same nappy all night. She does, however, seem to have a faint red ring around the anus - is that a sign of an allergy?

A red ring around the anus can signify allergy. It can also be a consequence of life in diapers. In a baby who has few other signs of allergy, I would see it as something to watch, but not something to freak out about. If it gets worse, or baby starts exhibiting other allergy symptoms, then maybe it's time to really start thinking about eliminating dairy or something like that. (Allergies to the proteins in cow's milk are among the most common allergies in babies.)

re: weight gain, she's consistently gaining about 300-400 g every two weeks. Her birth weight was 3.63kgs (8 lbs) and at 14 weeks she was 6.38 (14 lbs).

This is terrific! That means your baby is gaining 5-7 oz per week, which is just what she should be doing.

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Mommal, I wanna hug you and bake you a cake! Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to reply!
Re: potential allergy, what are other signs? I read this article on Kelly Mom: http://kellymom.com/health/baby-heal...d-sensitivity/ and it seems to me apart from a bit of redness on LO's bum and a bit of fussiness there are no other symptoms she's displaying. I guess it wouldn't hurt for me to give up dairy for about 2 weeks (I read somewhere that this is a minimal period after which you could see a change if the baby is in fact allergic to dairy) and see whether it makes a difference.
I suppose pumping and fenugreek and all my efforts to increase my milk supply did in fact lead to oversupply and more problems. I just wonder when the supply situation will stabilise? I've not touched fenugreek and the pump since my first post, so about 2 weeks, but maybe it's too early?

I'm going to my local La Leche League meet tomorrow to see whether I can improve on latch or positioning!

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

The signs of allergy are blood in poop, excema (skin rash other than diaper area that has no other cause) underweight baby, slow gaining baby, miserable baby, baby unable to sleep, breast rejection. I think green poops & diaper rash as well but of course green poops & diaper rash can mean many things including just normal.

Diaper Rash aside- Breastmilk poops are mild and less likely to cause a rash, but Breastfed babies tend to get rashes because they poop so often and all that wiping is a problem. Changing from commercial wipes (even the 'sensitive' or 'natural' ones are too much for many babies as a regular thing) to some thing homemade or just plain water & a soft cloth helps with those types of friction rashes. You can still use commercial wipes for when you are out.

I mentioned allergies because you continue to be concerned that there is something wrong, despite (imo) all signs to the contrary. I believe in mother's instincts, so if you think something is wrong, allergy would be the next place to look after eliminating overproduction/forceful letdown as the issue. Which I thought you had done.

But based on everything you have written, especially with mommal taking you through everything step by step, I, personally, think there IS no issue, and never really was, except maybe a little overproduction which is not really an issue unless it causes breastfeeding interruption due to mother issues (engorgement, plugs, mastitis) or baby issues (baby refusing to nurse, unhappy at the breast, baby clearly in miserable gastrointestinal discomfort.) Your baby does now and always has sounded entirely normal and healthy to me. She sounds a bit fussier than some babies and much less fussy than others I have known. Personality is part of it all.

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Did somebody say cake??!

with you and LLLMeg about the allergy possibility. This just doesn't strike me as a likely allergy, either. Baby is too happy, too healthy, and gaining too nicely! That being said, if you're curious it wouldn't hurt to cut down on dairy and see if there is any sort of change, particularly if you are someone who eats a ton of it. While it can take several weeks for dairy protein to completely leave your system, many people see improvement in just a few days. I'm not recommending that you try this for any reason aside from curiousity, though!

The question about when your supply will stabilize is impossible to answer. Women, babies, and bodies are too different, too individual. But maybe your answers to the following questions will help us figure out where you are now, in terms of supply:
- Do you feel full or engorged fairly often, or only when baby goes a long stretch without feeding?
- Do you leak a lot?
- When you were pumping, how much milk could you get and how long did it take you to get that milk?
- Does your baby ever choke, gasp, gag, cough, splutter, or make a clicking or clucking noise while nursing?

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Thanks ladies!

I went to the LLL meet in my area today and met other mums and the LLL leader, who gave me a leaflet about overproduction which I'm gonna read up tomorrow.
I think there's no harm in me trying to cut down on dairy as an experiment, so as soon as I finish off all the yoghurts and cheese I'm switching to almond/hazelnut/soy or coconut milk

Originally Posted by @llli*mommal

The question about when your supply will stabilize is impossible to answer. Women, babies, and bodies are too different, too individual. But maybe your answers to the following questions will help us figure out where you are now, in terms of supply:
- Do you feel full or engorged fairly often, or only when baby goes a long stretch without feeding?

I think I only feel engorged if LO is not on a particular breast for a long time (about 4-5 hours I would say, so generally at night. I'm not really experiencing much engorgement during the day.

Originally Posted by @llli*mommal

- Do you leak a lot?

I used to leak in the morning in my pumping days after 8-9 hours of not feeding, now it barely ever happens.

Originally Posted by @llli*mommal

- When you were pumping, how much milk could you get and how long did it take you to get that milk?

When I was pumping I was pumping after the last evening feed (when my husband was bottle feeding LO) and would usually get about 50mls (1.6 oz) from both breasts. Then I'd pump in the morning after feeding LO. I'd basically wake up super engorged, feed LO from left breast and later pump from the right one and would get about 100-130 mls (3.3 oz - 4.3oz).

Originally Posted by @llli*mommal

- Does your baby ever choke, gasp, gag, cough, splutter, or make a clicking or clucking noise while nursing?

Hmm, that's a tough one. When she wakes up in the middle of the night and feeds she gulps really quickly and then slows down and calms down. I don't think she ever choked, gagged or coughed (ok, maybe she coughed once). She makes a clicking noise every now and then, but I think this might be due to a poor latch so I usually re-latch her if that happens.

Once again thanks for your patience answering hundreds of my questions!
I definitely think that LO feeds best when I'm lying down, but this might be because there are less distractions for her that way.

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg

Diaper Rash aside- Breastmilk poops are mild and less likely to cause a rash, but Breastfed babies tend to get rashes because they poop so often and all that wiping is a problem. Changing from commercial wipes (even the 'sensitive' or 'natural' ones are too much for many babies as a regular thing) to some thing homemade or just plain water & a soft cloth helps with those types of friction rashes. You can still use commercial wipes for when you are out.
.

I only really use wipes when out and about, at home we use cotton wool balls and water I tried using wipes once and LO definitely had a reaction to them, even though they were supposed to be 'extra sensitive'.

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Thanks for answering all those questions!

Based on your replies, I'm thinking that you probably don't have much, if any, oversupply going on. You're not feeling much engorgement, you're not leaking, your pump amounts were about average, and the baby isn't doing that cough/gag/splutter/scream/click/pull off the breast thing that babies do when they're getting blasted by a firehose letdown.

I guess I'm curious to see what will happen if you take dairy out of your diet.

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Me again! It's been a few weeks now and I've taken all the obvious sources of dairy out of my diet (milk, cheese, yoghurts, butter, etc). The yellow poos are back so I'm pleased, though we still have a lot of green ones. My DD seems a lot happier and less fussy though, which is great.
She's 4 months and 1 week now and I really wanted to pick your brains about naps and sleep without starting a new thread if you don't mind.
I'm going a bit crazy here since DD doesn't really nap during the day. At night she sleeps ok-ish (I think the dreaded 4 month sleep regression started as she sleeps for 2, max 3 hours at a time, usually falls asleep on the boob around 10.30-11 pm and wakes up around 7.30ish) but during the day it's a nightmare. When she was smaller, she managed an hour, sometimes a two hour nap around 10-11 am and then would sleep for 2 hours in a pushchair. Now she 'naps' (if you can even call it a nap) after falling off my boob for 10-20 mins max (I feed her lying down a lot these days as it seems much easier for me and lets me stretch my legs). Literally minutes after I leave the room she wakes up though. Even during the walk she sleeps for only 30 minutes - she wakes up the moment I walk into a shop (so basically unless the pushchair is bouncing on uneven ground she won't sleep). Evenings are the worst. I can tell she's overtired as she gets cranky. I try to feed her before my husband comes home from work and then he takes care of her while I cook dinner. By the time dinner is ready she's hungry/tired/cranky again and I end up eating dinner with one hand while holding her with the other in my lap...

I'm seriously at my wits' end. I feel like somewhere along the line I made a terrible mistake and 'broke' my baby and she'll never nap again. All my mum friends have no problems with getting their LOs to nap. I, on the other hand, now feel like a headless chicken, desperately trying everything and anything to get my LO to sleep during the day. It's not so much so that I can have some 'me' time, but so that she gets some rest during the day and sleeps better at night. She's so wired all the time, squirming a lot and full of energy, it's like she's never tired! Surely this is not possible?

I know some people do sleep training and somehow teach the baby to fall asleep by themselves; I honestly don't know how this works!
Like I said she falls asleep on the boob and in the pushchair or sling but I'd like her to have at least one nap during the day when I can do something for myself, do something around the house, eat something etc.

Re: 12 week old baby has green poos and fusses at breast

Wait, is your baby sleeping from 10-11 pm until 7:30 in the morning, with no wake-ups? If so, then she's not sleeping "ok-ish"- she's sleeping amazing!!! At 4 months, my kids were up from 5-8 times per night. Maybe 3-5 on a very good night.

With such a long sleep stretch at night, it's probably unsurprising that your baby is more wakeful and difficult by day. If she was a great napper in addition to being a great nighttime sleeper, we'd all have to die of jealousy. Anyway, there's nothing you did that "broke" your baby. She's just acting like a baby- unpredictable and needy! Don't fall into the trap of comparing her to your friends' kids- maybe their babies are unusually mellow, or maybe they other issues that your baby doesn't have. Or maybe they embraced some sort of sleep training, which is not as friendly as it sounds. Sleep training basically means teaching your baby that no matter how hard she cries, or how hungry/wet/lonely/uncomfortable she is, you will not come and meet her needs. Her only recourse is to wait until you are ready to come and attend to her, because crying will only be a waste of her energy.

Do you have a swing? If she will nap happily while in motion, that could be a way to have her feel like she's still bumping along without you having to wear yourself out pushing the chair.