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Ive been a member here for two and a half years and in the early days of my membership I felt very welcome here. More recently though I too have become dispondant at the elitist and clique attitudes that is becoming more prevelant. Treatment of newcomers has sometimes been less than hospitable and the current trend of ignoring PMs is something that has infuriated me. I guess a low postcoutn makes you a second class citizen around here.

Ive been a member here for two and a half years and in the early days of my membership I felt very welcome here. More recently though I too have become dispondant at the elitist and clique attitudes that is becoming more prevelant. Treatment of newcomers has sometimes been less than hospitable and the current trend of ignoring PMs is something that has infuriated me. I guess a low postcoutn makes you a second class citizen around here.

I couldn't agree more.
I have complained to the mods about this, including naming names ,on several occasions over the last couple of years and either excuses were made or the pm's were ignored completely. It does seem quite evident that despite what some of the mods are saying on the boards several members are protected from upon high. This is the reason I and a lot of members I know are now content to just lurk and not post these days, for fear of unwarrented/unjustified attacks and critisism.

It is a sad day when they appear willing to let the boards be over run by individuals willing to drive out both newbies and the old guard alike.

Skygunbro, its a shame you are leaving and a big loss to the forums, but frankly I can't blame you.

Last edited by webchief; Dec 11, 2007 at 8:38 AM.
Reason: Swearing not allowed per code of conduct.

Didn't this come up when we were on the phone a few months back? Don't shun everyone else because of a couple of bad apples. The time will come when those guys will have alienated everyone around them, and then they'll see the light. Until then, just let them wallow in their own ****.

Leaving isn't going to solve anything. Honestly, theres no reason for you to go. It will play itself out, eventually. I think (in the long run) you'd be happier if you stuck around. Overall, TDH is still a fantastic place to spend some time. <3

What a shame. While I agree with most of what you said SkyGunBro. At the same time a community is made better by folks living up to what you are claiming you want to see rather then leaving because one or two folks spoil the party. There will be highs and lows no matter where you go and I have never seen anything any different on any other board to lead me to believe otherwise. Its sad but just a fact of life that dosnt seam to ever go away.

Whether your on TDH, the RPF, Bikerscout.net, the 501st forums, The another board or any other board for that matter you will get spoil sports, people jumping onto newbies, clicks, elitist selling... ect ect. I believe its standing up for what you believe in and acting how you would like to see others to act that will make where ever you log on to a better place.

Pretty much what Justin said... clearly you haven't been around on the net much because many of the problems we have here are prevalent in every online community. I recently joined a forum, totally unrelated to props and almost had to laugh as I can virtually place names of members from our forum on members from this new forum based on their attitudes and demeanor!

The things with the cliques and elitism lately really has gotten out of control. It is absolutely pathetic to see how some people choose to behave and that some people have such little self esteem and worth that they have to play "god" in an arena like this to make themselves feel like they have some value. The worst part is that it is generally (here and everywhere else I have gone) the most talented among us who feel the need to act the most childishly. However, as long as people condone/overlook those actions, worship those people and give them power, they will continue to misuse it. That is just the way it is. I think it is unrealistic to expect the administration to do something about it. They can't force a certain individual to sell a particular item to a particular person. They can't force people to like one another or be gracious. They can't force people to realize the board and people they continually poop all over is the same board and people who have given them their "celebrity" status in this tiny sliver of society. It is very sad but I have seen it again and again here and in many other places.

In regard to the newbies... there is no reason to be rude to them, but the fact of the matter is that it is pretty arrogant and self-important to come here to TDH and expect to be hand fed the information that is already readily available on this board. If you are too lazy to simply do a search, why should I take MY time to type it all out for you? Again, there is no justification for old members being rude about it, but it isn't out of line to tell a newb to use the search function. It is an inappropriate sense of entitlement to think that and old timer should spoon feed you the things you can easily find for yourself.

On a final note, I really think it is silly for you to leave in a huff because everyone won't play the way you deem they should. If I did that, I could pretty much just shut my internet connection off and never go online again. There will always be those who choose to be rude, unscrupulous, liars, pot-stirrers, and trouble makers. Some are clever enough to stay just below the radar and so they will be here. Just ignore them and enjoy the good things, the positive contributions, the people who are truly trying to help one another. There are still plenty of those people here and this is still a great community. As much as we wish some would just fade away, they won't and even if they do, there will be others who will step in to take their place, but by letting them drive you from a place you love, you only give them more power.

If you are too lazy to simply do a search, why should I take MY time to type it all out for you?

This isn't really my fight or anything, but I felt the need to point this out: if a newbie asks a question, and you reply with a snarky remark, aren't you taking time to reply anyway? Why not use that time to type out something constructive or helpful?

(Not that I'm accusing you of ripping on newbies left and right; I'm using "you" in the general sense).

I certainly understand where you are coming from and agree. There is no need for "snarky" responses to newbies but I also believe in the saying - give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. I believe this saying is absolutely perfect for this situation. Teach a new member how to look things up for themselves and they will be able to for the duration of their time here. Of course teaching them to do this should be done with kindness and in the spirit of helping them out.

I wasnt going reply here again although I do appreciate the support and your kind words.

But let this be said. I knew somehow this was going to get turned around so I was the bad guy or the one throwing a temper tantrum.

Im not leaving because the board doesnt work the way I think it should Im leaving for several reasons.The biggest one is the elitist attititude held by alot of the senior members.And yes I agree no matter what board you go to there are always guys like that there.
And I admit I can be thinned skinned at times and tend to get amped up over things that may seem trivial to others.

The other reason is the deception the certain few priveldged ones that say "poof" look what I made and never have to show WIP pics but are the first to ask others "where are the WIP pics." and basically insinuated you copied it.
These guys are protected because they make cool stuff and if slapped on the hand for their actions they retaliate by not selling their wares to the people that reprimanded them.So what happens...they get away with anything and everything.
Some of these people have attained a GOD complex and all their little minions that follow them around and treat them as such just compound the complex.

I also think that blackballing people all the time from certain for sale items is wrong and should not be allowed.Unless you know its a recaster then all items should be offered to anyone who wants them and not because you know the right people or greased the right palms.

If your doing a limited run and the allotment has been bought up then fine but open ended runs should be offered to anyone who wants them.

Another thing there are some people on here who never help out and only come on here to hock their wares...

And the MR helmet thread isnt what set me off it just added to it.My point was that the MR helmet is the most accurate bar none readily available helmet as compared to the rubies,Don post DP deluxe....Am I wrong???
And dont like being shat on or made out to be a tool because of my opinion. Am I a fett expert...NO never claimed to be I thought that was the point of the board for people wanting to learn...So Ill leave you few "experts" to quibble amonst each other......

The dented helmet is a good place with ALOT of good people and yes it has its issues like anywhere else but until these issues and the people that create the issues get weeded out then I chose not to be a part of it.

MY PM box is shut off . I have no open deals on here with anyone so this is a good time to walk away.Mods and admins you may close my account......

Everything is 2nd best short of having the actual screen used helmet - period.

But lets talk about these plugs and such,
who can say what damage and scratches and wonkiness was caused by poor casting or bad handling? Who is to say that these coveted and quickly recasted "official" copies of one of the alledeged line up of Fett helmets was given kid glove care when molded? Perhaps this had a big impact on the overall pulled piece, I don't know....

It appears they were quickly molded/recasted because it was a no-no.
What about the handling of the costumes pieces over the years. I've seen pics of the ankle spats displayed over the wrists!
Who can say whats completely accurate based on photos from when the costumes were haphazzardly thrown onto old shelving (as seen in the cd pics) and such have caused ?

At any rate, the MR for me is a helmet I can get that was digitally scanned from an official helmet which I think looks really good and with some minor touch ups can be made very screen accurate.

The best part is I (and anyone)can get one without having to confim my alliances/friendships here or having to deal with someone doing a half-cocked background check on me just to get something fan made around here,
by begging for one or having to "kiss up" constantly and hope...or having to deal with secret web sites inside this web site, broken promises, certain people getting stuff then throwing it up in everyones faces who did not, pics that were supposed to be posted "for the community" but were not, ect, ect, ect, blah, blah blah,

You know - Jason had the right idea and I shame myself for not following his lead earlier - good by all......

I prefer to leave here with my dignity not having to begg someone for something...

Skygunbro and pghfett,
I got alot of respect for the both of you and we have even talked one on one over the years about this and many other things in this wonderful hobby. While I totally respect your decision to do what you are doing, again, as some of our fellow TDHers have mentioned, allowing the "cool Kids Club" to have that much power is not worth the effort. We all know it exists, but ignoring them and letting them feel like they are better than everyone else honestly is the best way to deal with them. I've fought this battle before way back when and it never really changed. Heck, I've even been called a "CKclub member" myself, but the fact remains at the end of the day you are what you are. Being "someone" on the net and being that persona in person is worlds apart. I found this out at C3 when I went to TDH get together. Needless to say if you dont recall me being there (for those who are thinking back) I was, but as the cliques broke off into their groups I just went back to my room kinda befuddled and discouraged to find that newbies and or newer members weren't really welcome. Not excluded, just not openly welcome. Even got snubbed by a GREAT contributor to the Clonetroopers.net when I complimented his costume.
No,I am not bothered byit and I contribute it partially to my own inability at the time to justjumping in and introducing myself. I met Seeker and MiraxH, both of which were very cool.

Anyway, my point being, with things like this a thick skin is almost a necessary commodity. It's not that anyone wants to be a jerk (in this community), but it's not an easy club to be apart of outside of the people in the know. We have our fair share of people who do not need to be representative of what TDH is all about,but you'll have that in any club. I'm a proud member of the 501st and if you think there are elitists here...well within the 501st dynamic there are worse people and they don't og out of their way to hide it either.

I'm not defending anyone, but guys you make this hobby and are both major contributors. Let the kids play in the street, they will learn that what goes around, comes around. Karma always wins regardless.
peace bros!

Sorry theres no "cool kids" here anyway, by societies standards were all a bunch of freakn dorks that play dress up. Cool kids on a costuming forum hunh, that's like saying I'm the smartest kid in a class full of children with down syndrome. I know what SGB is saying and it's been going on for years, however TDH is for the most part a wonderful resource for this hobbie. As with anything in life, you just gotta look past the BS. On that note, if ANYBODY ever needs my help (newbe or not)please feel free to PM and I'll do what I can for you.

The biggest one is the elitist attititude held by alot of the senior members.

I have seen this exact phrase thrown around more than I care to think about but the fact is, it is simply a generalization. What does that mean? What SPECIFICALLY is it that senior members are doing that if so offensive? I would like to see a list because people are quick to throw out "elitism" but we never get a clear picture of what specific incidents create this general feeling.

skygunbro said:

The other reason is the deception the certain few priveldged ones that say "poof" look what I made and never have to show WIP pics but are the first to ask others "where are the WIP pics." and basically insinuated you copied it.
These guys are protected because they make cool stuff and if slapped on the hand for their actions they retaliate by not selling their wares to the people that reprimanded them.So what happens...they get away with anything and everything.

This is an issue for the mods to take up so I won't touch it.

skygunbro said:

Some of these people have attained a GOD complex and all their little minions that follow them around and treat them as such just compound the complex.

Can't argue this one at all. I don't think this is a result of inaction on the administrations part... simply that some people have ego's that constantly need stroking and as long as they are providing product there will always be people lining up to stroke them. It is unfortunate but what would you have the administration do about it? What is your solution to this issue?

skygunbro said:

I also think that blackballing people all the time from certain for sale items is wrong and should not be allowed.Unless you know its a recaster then all items should be offered to anyone who wants them and not because you know the right people or greased the right palms.

If your doing a limited run and the allotment has been bought up then fine but open ended runs should be offered to anyone who wants them.

There is a lot going on here but also a lot of deplorable insinuations on your part. Do you have any proof that any palms have been "greased?" Basically you are making accusations that certain individuals have somehow paid to be in the in-crowd so they can get items. Are you just making defamatory generalizations or do you have proof? Comments like these are boarding on libel and are pretty low. Trying to make your point by making wild accusations is a very dangerous thing.

In regard to your belief that a seller should sell to anyone who wants an item, that could be argued either way. In a perfect world it would be nice. However, there is no law that you MUST sell to everyone and wouldn't you be unhappy if the administration tried to force you to sell an item to someone you didn't want to. What is completely pathetic and contemptible are those who more or less hang their products over a potential buyers head in an effort to mainpulate them or won't sell to them because they won't lick the boots of the seller and slander the seller's enemies. And yes... that goes on here, but I would again ask you, what is your realistic expecation of the administration in these instances? Should they force a seller to sell to certain individuals? Should they ban those who won't? Do you really want a board that attempts to exhert that type of tyranny over its members?

skygunbro said:

Another thing there are some people on here who never help out and only come on here to hock their wares...

Yes, there are. And again, those who feed off this board like a vampire are pathetic and little more than leeches... but again, there are people like that on every board.

skygunbro said:

And the MR helmet thread isnt what set me off it just added to it.My point was that the MR helmet is the most accurate bar none readily available helmet as compared to the rubies,Don post DP deluxe....Am I wrong???
And dont like being shat on or made out to be a tool because of my opinion. Am I a fett expert...NO never claimed to be I thought that was the point of the board for people wanting to learn...So Ill leave you few "experts" to quibble amonst each other......

I have never claimed to be a Fett Expert, nor have I pooped on you or made you out to be a tool. Your statement in the MR helmet thread was simply wrong. I corrected you but apparently YOU are too high and mighty to be capable of being wrong. If you really wanted to learn, you would have seen my post as a helpful correction instead of seeing it as some type of attack.

skygunbro said:

The dented helmet is a good place with ALOT of good people and yes it has its issues like anywhere else but until these issues and the people that create the issues get weeded out then I chose not to be a part of it.

So in other words, until the world is made a perfect place by someone else, I am going to go hide in a corner and bury my head or go find another sandbox to play in. Instead of making a big melodramatic exit, if you cared about TDH, perhaps you could try to be a part of the solution and see what you could do to HELP the situation instead of simply wildly pointing fingers in the general direction of those you perceive to be the problem. There is plenty of blame to go around here, but your leaving sure doesn't take us any closer to a resolution. Very sad.

You are right Pennywise and while I used the term "cool kids" more as a term of description/example, its because I dont like the term "elitist". This community has been the best one of all the one's I frequent and while it is a public forum, it also means that people aren't perfect. I think Jason and Mike will be cool after this blows over because realistically this "problem" is not exclusive to TDH it is just the prop community in general and sometimes you can't do anything about how people treat one another.(IMHO)

I can see why you are leaving....and I left for a while because of similar events, and things haven't really changed.

I have gotten in a few tussles on this forum, quite a few times.. Some were completely my fault...and others I was retaliating, and it just got shot into my face. I am actually surprised I was not banned, at least temporarily.

I came here, and I got some of the n00b treatment, but not much. Eventually, I got a "Know-it-all" attitude as well. Looking back at the arguments, I just read and say: "Wow"

Some other things on this forum bug the cr*p out of me...but that is the way it is run, and what the majority believe...oh well.

The fact is, there are many here who are protected by their high post count, and the fact they have been here for a while...while this is saddening, there is not much one can do about it.

And to the post of some who believe that other forums are like this, fact is...that's not entirely true, not one bit.

I am on a few other forums, and a current one I am on...I never see a conflict, as on TDH, you can expect one almost every other day.

Sorry theres no "cool kids" here anyway, by societies standards were all a bunch of freakn dorks that play dress up. Cool kids on a costuming forum hunh, that's like saying I'm the smartest kid in a class full of children with down syndrome. I know what SGB is saying and it's been going on for years, however TDH is for the most part a wonderful resource for this hobbie. As with anything in life, you just gotta look past the BS. On that note, if ANYBODY ever needs my help (newbe or not)please feel free to PM and I'll do what I can for you.

OH MY GOD!!! I JUST SPIT DR. PEPPER ALL OVER MY MONITOR!!! Dang Pennywise, this is the second time you've brought me to tears !!! Thanks for putting this TOTALLY back into perspective! WE'RE ALL JUST THAT KID FROM 'GALAXY QUEST'!

I feel that I have done my fair share of contributing to this board and helping out new members, but I find myself feeling like an outsider.

I can’t even get some folks to reply to my PM’s and e-mails when I want to get in on a run. I have even gotten hate mail accusing my work (templates & patterns) of infringing on their prop business. I just don’t understand the attitudes of some folks.