Re: [PPLetterpress] Expert fonts for idiots?

... i m sure others will weigh in with a much more detailed explanation, but i d say it depends on the fonts. for example, i have sabon and galliard with o.s.

Message 1 of 9
, May 1, 2003

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>it appears
>that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
>swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
>rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.

i'm sure others will weigh in with a much more detailed explanation,
but i'd say it depends on the fonts. for example, i have sabon and
galliard with o.s. figs as a standard part of the rom font, but with
many other book types i have to do just as you describe. and isn't it
annoying that jobs and wozniak allowed for fi and fl but didn't think
ffi, ffi, and ff mattered? so we have some inthe main font and others
only in the expert. grrrr.

one workaround i've used with great success for longer runs of copy
is to do a search-and-replace in xpress, changing one numeral at a
time, and specifying rom vs ital, point size, etc. with this approach
you can do a 256-page book in just a few minutes, although you have
to be methodical. one of those amazing powers of the computer: you
sit back for a few moments as the machine goes b-r-r-r-r-r-r-p! and
says, "1,278 instances changed."

i only know xpress (and passport) so i'm not sure but i imagine the
other apps such as indesign and pagemaker do this as well

many years ago i also tried swapping the numerals in fontographer,
putting o.s. figs in where the lining figs had been, and thus making
a new font, but i was unsteady enough with that application (or maybe
it was fontmonger) that i decided to just stick with the
search-and-replace thing. too many issues with the font i.d. numbers,
messed up side bearings and so forth, in a case where i knew just
enough to be dangerous.

Katie Yes, this is essentially how you would do that. Except that you are not applying the expert style you are selecting the expert font. Same as you should

Message 2 of 9
, May 1, 2003

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Katie

Yes, this is essentially how you would do that. Except that you are not
"applying the expert style" you are selecting the expert font. Same as
you should be doing, ahem, when you use an italic or bold version of a
font. As much as a pain as this may seem, um, remember hand composition?

Also, PostScript Type 1 fonts (one to another, even in the same
"family") do not share kerning pairs so manual kerning or adjustment of
word spaces is order when you are intermixing fonts and even if you are
adjusting sizes of characters one to another.

I don't find this kind of thing as laborious as a lot of folks might
because I spent a great many years at the composing stand. I really
enjoy working with computer typesetting not because it is easier or that
I can perform whiz bang tricks, but because I can replicate and even
greatly enhance the finer points of hand composition. Plus the really
great advantage is you never, ever, have to distribute!

Gerald

Katie Harper wrote:

>Someone mentioned expert fonts, and I have a question because I think I must
>not be using them correctly. In the case where one is using upper and lower
>case type and wants to use old style (ie, lowercase) numerals, it appears
>that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
>swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
>rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.
>
>
>
>

Katie Harper

Hear, hear! Katie Plus the really

Message 3 of 9
, May 1, 2003

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Hear, hear!

Katie

Plus the really

> great advantage is you never, ever, have to distribute!
>
> Gerald
>
>

Dan Franklin

If you re comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab, you can make super-old-style text fonts by gleaning characters from the Expert set, for

Message 4 of 9
, May 1, 2003

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If you're comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab, you
can make super-old-style text fonts by gleaning characters from the
Expert set, for instance, by substituting old-style figures and
adding ff, ffi, ffl ligatures and ct, st ligatures in unused or
little-used character positions. (Be sure that you always put the
same character (say, ffl) in the same keyboard position (say, ¥) in
fonts that you create.)

If you use Quark, you still have to search/replace the ligatures. You
can do this in Applescript with a fairly simple script, along the
lines of ...

for every text where it is "ffl"
set text to "¥"

With patience and care, you can even create a font with old-style
figures that horizontally align (for numbered lists, etc.). Here you
are changing widths and sidebearings, but being methodical can
produce excellent results.

If you're skittish about using Fontographer but not skittish about
using Applescript, you can tell the Quark document to go to an Expert
font for certain characters, like ...

for every text where it is "ffl"
set text to "Z"
if the font of text is Bembo Bold
set font to Bembo BoldExpert
else if the font of text is Bembo Italic
set font to Bembo ItalicExpert

Such a script can be used over and over by using variables for the
font names and declaring them only once at the top of the script. A
script can execute all these changes in less than a second on a
good-sized chapter. And if you want to decide on a case-by-case basis
whether to use, say, an st ligature (think "Christmastide"--do you
really want 2 st ligs there?), you can pause the script and type Y
for change and N for no-change.

Of course, if you use Adobe InDesign and have OpenType fonts, you can
turn old-style figures on and off at will or whimsy.

Gerald Lange

Dan Thanks for the info about Apple Scripts. ... For folks who are a bit comfortable, I ve put a PDF of a simple FL font modification sequence (letterpress

Message 5 of 9
, May 1, 2003

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Dan

Thanks for the info about Apple Scripts.

> If you're comfortable mixing fonts in Fontographer or FontLab....

For folks who are a bit comfortable, I've put a PDF of a "simple" FL
font modification sequence (letterpress configuration) in the How-To
Files. I'm much more familiar with FOG but would appreciate input from
anyone regarding the FL sequence. It works, but constructive criticism
would be helpful.

Thanks

Gerald

Jessica Spring

Katie-- A trick I ve used for large jobs is to set the text then use the find/replace feature for each numeral. It s much faster than doing them individually.

Message 6 of 9
, May 2, 2003

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Katie--
A trick I've used for large jobs is to set the text then use the
find/replace feature for each numeral. It's much faster than doing them
individually.
--Jessica

> From: Katie Harper <knharper@...>
> Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 21:38:11 -0400
> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Expert fonts for idiots?
>
> Someone mentioned expert fonts, and I have a question because I think I must
> not be using them correctly. In the case where one is using upper and lower
> case type and wants to use old style (ie, lowercase) numerals, it appears
> that the only way to do this is to separately select the numbers (or cap for
> swash, etc.) and apply the expert style. Is this the right procedure? It's
> rather a pain, especially with a large block of text.
>
> From my research, my own guess is that this IS the way of things, and that
> (for one thing) is why Open Type is supposed to be so much better, since the
> special characters are (or will be) accessible automatically...??
>
>
>
>
> Katie Harper
> Ars Brevis Press
> Cincinnati, OH
> 513-233-9588
> http://www.arsbrevispress.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
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>
>

Carole Aldrich

Katie One thing you could do is set up a character style for the expert font, assign it a keystroke (one not likely to be used by anything else, then switch to

Message 7 of 9
, May 2, 2003

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Katie

One thing you could do is set up a character style for the expert
font, assign it a keystroke (one not likely to be used by anything
else, then switch to the style, type the character, switch back to
the text style. I know you can do this in Quark, and believe in
InDesign also. It would be sort of like the old days when fonts and
font sizes and styles were entered from the keyboard with commands in
the old phototypesetting equipment.
--
Carole M Aldrich
Voice 909.625.7722
Fax 909.625.9822carolealdrich@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

funquie

That s the problem with expert fonts. So many bits of type, and only so few ASCII codes to spread them around under. And since most people these days don t

Message 8 of 9
, May 2, 2003

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That's the problem with expert fonts. So many bits of type, and only
so few ASCII codes to spread them around under. And since most people
these days don't like "old style" numerals, it's almost mandatory for
typehouses to include both sorts of numbers (lining and old-style).

I have Expert sets for Poetica, Garamond, and Caslon. In all these
sets, there are lining and old-style figures. And to get the old-style
figs, I must apply a different font to the numbers.

It's a pain, but no more of a pain than hand-setting type in two or
three different styles (bold, ital, roman, old-style, etc.)

We (typographers and designers) have gotten VERY lazy since the advent
of computers, and when a minor glitch like this comes around, it seems
like a MAJOR deal. In the days of lead type, if your font had lining
figures and you wanted old style, you'd have to order them from a
foundry, IF they were available, then sit back and wait for a few
weeks while they shipped, most likely via train...

--Richard Creighton
"Dreamer Press"
Martinsburg WV

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