"They seem to be solely the stuff of legend, ascribed to folk living in ancient times or distant places, or beings of mythical or near-mythical reputation: dragons, giants, the Elderlings, the Others, pecksies" or so says Fitz. At some other point he also includes unicorns and, I think, serpents in a similar list...

Of course, since Fitz penned these words, we have all come to know that the following are not mythical:

* Dragons - Lords of the Three Realms

* Serpents - dragons prior to their metamorphosis

* Others - considered to be Abominations, dragons over-exposed to humans, taken on human-like qualities

These five we have been introduced to so far are all connected however I can't help but wonder where pecksies would sit on the grand scale of things, alongside serpents, Others, dragons, and Elderlings!

We know that pecksies exist, at the very least, in the region of Tilth, in the north of the Six Duchies. This northern inland duchy also borders the region near the Mountain Kingdom (where the Skill River is located though, certainly, Tilth is some way away).

The silver, pecksie-dust smears they leave behind (on the windows, bucket, eggs etc) screams Skill magic to me, such as what had coated the hands and arms of Verity and Kettle. Also, to a lesser degree, Fool/Amber and even the fingerprints on Fitz's wrist (not only are these two examples of the silver of the Skill magic but both are also evidence that the Skill magic is transferred by touch). Even Jami in WLC knows that this silver stuff from the pecksies is a danger to humans...

While pecksies are small creatures, their eye colours and even the descriptions of their limbs/extremities (long fingers etc) puts me in mind of Elderlings, and even, to a certain extent, Fool.

It sure does make one wonder if Fitz's seemingly "pecksie-nibbled look" after his month caught in the Witness Stones may actually have a ring of truth about it! Hmm, where do pecksies fit?

And, what of those "mythical" creatures/folk that remain unknown in Fitz's list? Are we yet to see giants and unicorns?

"I am the Catalyst, and I came to change all things. Prophets become warriors, dragons hunt as wolves."

I haven't read Words Like Coins so not sure about pecksies, but your post highlights how nicely Robin's different stories tie in with little clues and tidbits everywhere to link them! (for those that can find them!)
Love it!

This could belong here in a comparative respect to dragons/other mythical creatures but it could just as easily fit in with any of the 'Words Like Coins', 'Dragon Haven', ‘cats’ or 'favourite character' threads! What to do? Mervi, I think I need you to reel me in!

Anyhow, in WLC, pecksies are known for their careful use of words, hence the title. I would suggest that their limited desire/need to speak (and hence waste words), is overcome by or due to their ability to regularly use the Skill, or Wit, as a means of communicating with each other. As far as I can remember, nothing like this is even indirectly suggested in the text but is simply a hunch I have had (that could be way off the mark!).

If they have the silver of the Skill on their hands, the next logical step is to also assume that they have Skill ability? That the pecksie hedge-witch in WLC has the capability to work with charms in a similar fashion to the Fool (not to mention Amber's beads etc), I would assume that this was due to her Skill-covered hands, just as it was with Amber/Fool's and also Verity's and Kettle's.

While just now re-reading Dragon Keeper, I have come across the introductory conversation between Thymara and Sintara and it got me thinking. In it Sintara says to Thymara, "I didn't 'hatch' here. I emerged from my case. Are you too ignorant of dragon ways to know the difference?"

Thymara replied, "I'm not ignorant.....To say that you hatched here was just a manner of speaking."

"A careless use of words," Sintara corrected her.

Later on in the conversation, Thymara asks, “Why are you dragons so certain that Kerlinger exists?”

“If you are trying to talk about Kelsingra, then at least name it correctly. You are very careless with your language.”

These are so similar to likely responses from a pecksie in a same situation that I can't help but think that it suggests a particularly strong link or likeness of some kind between the dragons and peckies...they both seem to care so much about 'words', and I am sure that this sort of thing has been mentioned elsewhere by other dragons.

I seem to remember possibly even Tintaglia complaining of it in SOD, when she grumbled about humans and their need for speaking all of the time and also Bolt, who was annoyed at Kennit (I think?) for using the incorrect names of characters in a story re-telling....a story she knew the truth of from her dragon memories.

Hmmm....if pecksies have Others-like qualities, it also stands to reason that they will share qualities with dragons also. And yet, they are also cat-like and Elderling-like, and even Fool-like!

"I am the Catalyst, and I came to change all things. Prophets become warriors, dragons hunt as wolves."

In a different thread I suggested that we may possibly come to learn that the "mythical" gods El, Eda and Sa are all one and the same 'deity' but currently they are just known by different names, by different people, in different regions.

Throughout the books we hear expressions like, "El's balls", "Eda's tits", "Sa's breath" and, my personal favourite, "El and Eda in a tangle". I am still thinking on it all but these words "El and Eda in a tangle" obviously brings to mind serpents winding in a tangle within the Plenty. It also makes me then think of dragons...not unlike a serpent tangle, they do seem to tangle together in the sky (the Lack) during the mating process, don't they?

Is this coincidence or is there a connection? I am sure that Fitz used the saying, at least once, when in conversation with Fool. As the concept of serpents and dragons was/is still fully unknown to Fitz, could it be that it is a saying he has learnt from Six Duchies history, or his own memories as Changer/the foundation of the House of Farseer? Where would such a saying come from without some sort of foundation in RotE truth?

Hmm, would it be a stretch then to assume that there is a possibility that Eda/El/Sa does exist but as a dragon-like divine being, and not the usual human-like god we may be expecting (hence the addition of "in a tangle")?

Could it also be (whatever form Eda/El/Sa takes) that Fitz and Dutiful actually have "touched" Eda/El/Sa during their experience on Others Island? Dutiful's experience of that great presence was that of a fatherly being whereas Fitz experienced a more feminine manifestation. Later, Fitz was of the opinion that this was because they were each drawn to that gender which had been mostly lacking in their lives (Fitz mourned the loss of his mother whilst Dutiful longed for his father). Is it possible that this is a correct assumption on Fitz's part BUT, to take it further, what they actually experienced was the two facets of Sa within the Skill River? That the Skill River is of Sa (especially given the previous discussions we've had concerning the connection between the Skill, priests, Elderlings, artworks etc?).

"I am the Catalyst, and I came to change all things. Prophets become warriors, dragons hunt as wolves."

(May-13-2010, 12:11 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: I am still thinking on it all but these words "El and Eda in a tangle" I am sure that Fitz used the saying, at least once, when in conversation with Fool. As the concept of serpents and dragons was/is still fully unknown to Fitz, could it be that it is a saying he has learnt from Six Duchies history, or his own memories as Changer/the foundation of the House of Farseer? Where would such a saying come from without some sort of foundation in RotE truth?

I never really thought about what 'tangle' meant in that saying!! Yes I think your theory that it relates to dragons/serpents is very plausible. Other people say it besides Fitz don't they? I think it is probably a phrase people have forgotten the origins of, much like many of our own sayings. So Fitz not knowing about dragons/serpents wouldn't matter.

(May-13-2010, 12:11 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Hmm, would it be a stretch then to assume that there is a possibility that Eda/El/Sa does exist but as a dragon-like divine being

Geees and won't the dragons laud it over the humans if they find out!!!!!!! Then again, you'd think they'd know if they have access to such long term memories (although this has been severely damaged), and if so there's NO WAY they wouldn't have mentioned it! Hehehe.

(May-13-2010, 12:11 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Could it also be (whatever form Eda/El/Sa takes) that Fitz and Dutiful actually have "touched" Eda/El/Sa during their experience on Others Island? .....what they actually experienced was the two facets of Sa within the Skill River?

I must admit this would kind of make sense. I can't recall all the details now of all times characters heard the 'divine voice' type thing in the Skill River, but I do remember sometimes it seemed to be a dragon and other times more like some sort of 'god'. Your theory that it could in fact all be a 'dragon like god' would explain a lot!!!!
Opens up a whole lot of other questions though doesn't it! Or am I being too arrogantly human to wonder why the heck "OUR" god is DRAGON like!!! They're not better than us! Hmph!

(May-14-2010, 02:15 PM (UTC))Nuytsia Wrote: I think it is probably a phrase people have forgotten the origins of, much like many of our own sayings. So Fitz not knowing about dragons/serpents wouldn't matter.

Yes, I definitely agree, which is why I think there is more to this saying than meets the eye! That Fitz (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't know the origin of it, but can still come out with the saying in day-to-day conversation, tells me that it has had a long history of usage...maybe from right back to a time when El and Eda, the Skill, dragons and Elderlings etc were all just accepted as existing...since then, the knowledge of it all has been lost but the saying has survived!

"I am the Catalyst, and I came to change all things. Prophets become warriors, dragons hunt as wolves."

(May-13-2010, 12:11 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: Could it also be (whatever form Eda/El/Sa takes) that Fitz and Dutiful actually have "touched" Eda/El/Sa during their experience on Others Island?

That is a fascinating thought! One thing though, IIRC one of the things s/he says to Fitz is; "the others would not even have noticed they'd attracked you". Something like that, anyway, I don't have the book with me at the moment.

So that'd indicate that s/he's part of a group or race, not a single entity. But then it wouldn't be the first time that seemingly more powerful beings were regarded as gods by humans, and as the contact got lost maybe it developed into the belief of two dual-gender entities.

The Outislanders are also a lot more religious then the people of the Six Duchies, aren't they? Do we actually ever see a priest of Eda, El or Sa in the Six Duchies?

I think we can be sure that the religions around Sa, El and Eda evolved from the same starting point seeing as they both keep this duality in gender. That being said it'd be interesting to know which religion they follow in Chalced, as a god with a female aspect usually reflects positively on the attitude towards woman in a society.

Chrischa that's an interesting thing - a pity I don't have the books at hand either!
If the 'deities' (or whatever) ARE a group or race they better not be beings from outer space like SOME fantasy books I could mention. Hehehe, nooooooo!!!
Oooh I was going to say that about 6 Duchies - we never really see any display of religion there (hmmm that I can think of). They don't seem very religious people. eg marriages don't even seem to take place in a church? (do they?)
Then again I THINK that if it weren't for the character of Wintrow we may not hear anything about religion in Bingtown either (??)
Chalced again! Such a mystery that place..... then again maybe that's for the best

The Six Duchies seem to have a somewhat more... organic? view of their deities. Which I suppose makes sense for farmers, heh. What I mean is, they speak of the Witness Stones as being a place where the gods influence the outcome of events or have the power to bind people to their words (marriages) which leads me to believe that the Six Duchies people think of the deities as more or less keeping their own council. They don't seem to have prescribed religious ceremonies, but rather have places they can go that bring their lives more closely into contact with the Gods.

It's possible that there are Six Duchies religious institutions that we haven't seen, but it seems like they would have somehow been involved in the events of The Farseer, because people often turn to religion in times of crisis. Not to mention that with Buckeep Town being basically the capital of the Six Duchies, one would think that there would be priests of Eda there if they exist in great numbers anywhere.

So, here's a question. Almost all of the confirmed mystical creatures seem to come from dragons, or the contact between humans and dragons, somehow. So, where do White Prophets come from? Maybe they're what happens if an Other spins a cocoon. (Just kidding.) Or am I?