Public sector workers across the county are striking today to protest against proposed changes to pension plans.

Schools, police, and council services are all likely to be affected.

Travellers using Stansted Airport have been warned to expect long delays at border control because UK Border Agency staff are among those striking.

108 schools confirmed to Essex County Council that they intended to close fully because of the strike action.

More than 300 schools have not informed the county council of their decision.

Marches were expected in towns across the county including Colchester, Chelmsford, Harlow, Southend.

An Essex Police spokesman said: "Essex Police put robust contingency plans in place on Wednesday, November 30 to ensure that critical services were fully maintained throughout the day.

"As of 3:30pm today there have been no reported problems and all emergency and non emergency calls have been answered and responded to in the most appropriate way.

"Essex Police estimates that under 5 per cent of support staff (including PCSOs) took part in the industrial action.

"Across the county Essex Police has worked with partner agencies to ensure minimal disruption to anyone not taking part in a protest and going about their daily business. At the present time there
are no strike-related incidents to report."

Related links

Councillor David Finch Deputy Leader and the Cabinet Member for Finance and Transformation Programme, said: “Today’s National Public Sector strike has had a minimal impact on Essex County Council’s
services, there were no issues in our adult or children’s social care areas, our libraries were all open and our highways and transport services are all running as usual, although 2 mobile
libraries did not go out and a handful of adult evening classes will not take place tonight.

My impression from being in County Hall today is that most employees attended for work as normal.

Of course we would have preferred no industrial action at all, but we are pleased that our employees as well as local and regional level trade unions have taken a measured approach”

This government will cut anything and everything, make the poor poorer, short change the hard working and make every one suffer.
They would sell their own grandmothers to make a quick buck.

One day the conservatives will look around and wonder what happened to the country, and say, "oh yeah, WE SOLD IT"

This government will cut anything and everything, make the poor poorer, short change the hard working and make every one suffer.
They would sell their own grandmothers to make a quick buck.
One day the conservatives will look around and wonder what happened to the country, and say, "oh yeah, WE SOLD IT"adia789

Have we all been here before? Cameron sad lads are trying to come over as being tough like the dark days of Maggie Thatcher. We all remember when Maggie Thatcher introduced the election carrot to allow social housing tenants to buy their houses at a discount price. Then the Iron lady took on the unions resulting in massive redundancies and thousands of disgruntled voters who found themselves unemployed and their dream houses being repossessed!
This is the reason the social housing stock all over the country has diminished.

I support the strikes.

Have we all been here before? Cameron sad lads are trying to come over as being tough like the dark days of Maggie Thatcher. We all remember when Maggie Thatcher introduced the election carrot to allow social housing tenants to buy their houses at a discount price. Then the Iron lady took on the unions resulting in massive redundancies and thousands of disgruntled voters who found themselves unemployed and their dream houses being repossessed!
This is the reason the social housing stock all over the country has diminished.
I support the strikes.improving road safety

Public sector workers, stop fefin moaning about pensions that is what you get when you are nearly dead, if you are not happy within your job and I bet pensions was on the bottom of your list when you applied, get another one. Try running your own business and I will tell you now pensions will be your least of concern. The government and some public sector workers make our lives hell. And we don't get paid bonuses, holiday, sick pay, and every other pay that we pay for.

Public sector workers, stop fefin moaning about pensions that is what you get when you are nearly dead, if you are not happy within your job and I bet pensions was on the bottom of your list when you applied, get another one. Try running your own business and I will tell you now pensions will be your least of concern. The government and some public sector workers make our lives hell. And we don't get paid bonuses, holiday, sick pay, and every other pay that we pay for.billericay boy

This is just part of the old Etonian government's ideological war against the public sector. It spews propaganda and lies - with the help of friendly fat cat newspaper owners - about 'gold plated' pensions, yet the truth is the average pension for a teacher is less than ten grand a year. Most certainly not 'gold plated'.

This is just part of the old Etonian government's ideological war against the public sector. It spews propaganda and lies - with the help of friendly fat cat newspaper owners - about 'gold plated' pensions, yet the truth is the average pension for a teacher is less than ten grand a year. Most certainly not 'gold plated'.6079 Smith W

billericay boy wrote:
Public sector workers, stop fefin moaning about pensions that is what you get when you are nearly dead, if you are not happy within your job and I bet pensions was on the bottom of your list when you applied, get another one. Try running your own business and I will tell you now pensions will be your least of concern. The government and some public sector workers make our lives hell. And we don't get paid bonuses, holiday, sick pay, and every other pay that we pay for.

Actually when I started work it was accepted that in the public sector you sacrificed pay in return for a relatively decent pension. I don't see anything wrong with employers contributing towards a decent pension. In fact, I agree with it, as I'd rather that than people be condemned to poverty in old age and reliance on benefits. What are you going to do - refuse to shop at Marks and Spencer because an element of the price that you pay goes towards allowing their employees a pension when they retire? There must have been a reason why you chose to run your own business and I assume it was because you felt that you could earn a decent income that way. What I can't see though, is, if things didn't work out so rosy, why that is the fault of someone like a nurse or a midwife who contributes a bit more to society than just the pursuit of a quick profit

[quote][p][bold]billericay boy[/bold] wrote:
Public sector workers, stop fefin moaning about pensions that is what you get when you are nearly dead, if you are not happy within your job and I bet pensions was on the bottom of your list when you applied, get another one. Try running your own business and I will tell you now pensions will be your least of concern. The government and some public sector workers make our lives hell. And we don't get paid bonuses, holiday, sick pay, and every other pay that we pay for.[/p][/quote]Actually when I started work it was accepted that in the public sector you sacrificed pay in return for a relatively decent pension. I don't see anything wrong with employers contributing towards a decent pension. In fact, I agree with it, as I'd rather that than people be condemned to poverty in old age and reliance on benefits. What are you going to do - refuse to shop at Marks and Spencer because an element of the price that you pay goes towards allowing their employees a pension when they retire? There must have been a reason why you chose to run your own business and I assume it was because you felt that you could earn a decent income that way. What I can't see though, is, if things didn't work out so rosy, why that is the fault of someone like a nurse or a midwife who contributes a bit more to society than just the pursuit of a quick profitSPQR01

It will be a normal day at work for me, earning money to pay for the wages and pensions of these strikers. If I can spare the money I will have a pint at my pocal pub after work and life will go on.

It will be a normal day at work for me, earning money to pay for the wages and pensions of these strikers. If I can spare the money I will have a pint at my pocal pub after work and life will go on.Sdapeze

How about a private pension, instead of relying on the company you work for to do it for you. Then you can do whatever you want. Stop wasting our time when it is us non private sector workers paying your wages.

How about a private pension, instead of relying on the company you work for to do it for you. Then you can do whatever you want. Stop wasting our time when it is us non private sector workers paying your wages.billericay boy

6079 Smith W wrote:
This is just part of the old Etonian government's ideological war against the public sector. It spews propaganda and lies - with the help of friendly fat cat newspaper owners - about 'gold plated' pensions, yet the truth is the average pension for a teacher is less than ten grand a year. Most certainly not 'gold plated'.

You go on about facists but at least im not a traitor to my own country like you left wing skum bags. I work bloody hard and all you **** lot can do is to try and bring the country to its knees. You have never worked hard in your bloody life and spend all your time striking and in the pups.

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
This is just part of the old Etonian government's ideological war against the public sector. It spews propaganda and lies - with the help of friendly fat cat newspaper owners - about 'gold plated' pensions, yet the truth is the average pension for a teacher is less than ten grand a year. Most certainly not 'gold plated'.[/p][/quote]You go on about facists but at least im not a traitor to my own country like you left wing skum bags. I work bloody hard and all you **** lot can do is to try and bring the country to its knees. You have never worked hard in your bloody life and spend all your time striking and in the pups.crazy comments

What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.

What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.6079 Smith W

6079 Smith W wrote:
This is just part of the old Etonian government's ideological war against the public sector. It spews propaganda and lies - with the help of friendly fat cat newspaper owners - about 'gold plated' pensions, yet the truth is the average pension for a teacher is less than ten grand a year. Most certainly not 'gold plated'.

You go on about facists but at least im not a traitor to my own country like you left wing skum bags. I work bloody hard and all you **** lot can do is to try and bring the country to its knees. You have never worked hard in your bloody life and spend all your time striking and in the pups.

I've never been on strike in my life. I won't be on strike this week, hardly anybody in my union branch is in the pension scheme. We don't get paid enough to afford the contributions.
But because I'm capable of seeing things beyond my own self-interest, I fully support the strikers.

[quote][p][bold]crazy comments[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
This is just part of the old Etonian government's ideological war against the public sector. It spews propaganda and lies - with the help of friendly fat cat newspaper owners - about 'gold plated' pensions, yet the truth is the average pension for a teacher is less than ten grand a year. Most certainly not 'gold plated'.[/p][/quote]You go on about facists but at least im not a traitor to my own country like you left wing skum bags. I work bloody hard and all you **** lot can do is to try and bring the country to its knees. You have never worked hard in your bloody life and spend all your time striking and in the pups.[/p][/quote]I've never been on strike in my life. I won't be on strike this week, hardly anybody in my union branch is in the pension scheme. We don't get paid enough to afford the contributions.
But because I'm capable of seeing things beyond my own self-interest, I fully support the strikers.6079 Smith W

Citizen 139 wrote: Short memory you appear to have, the previous government have almost bankrupted the country.

This one will finish the job.

No I think you can safefully say the unions will do that, not the tories. This country will finish up broke with no economy or jobs and then people will wonder why.

[quote][p][bold]Boris[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Citizen 139[/bold] wrote: Short memory you appear to have, the previous government have almost bankrupted the country.[/p][/quote]This one will finish the job.[/p][/quote]No I think you can safefully say the unions will do that, not the tories. This country will finish up broke with no economy or jobs and then people will wonder why.crazy comments

6079 Smith W wrote:
'...a bloody good war'. Oh yes, I see now, how wrong I've been all this time! Thanks so much, Crazy, all my arguments have been destroyed with that little gem...

smithy, we cant afford a war can we,
we cant afford the servicemen we still just got!
but you have to ask who started the current drain on the countries wallet..
the smiling viper has his pension sod the rest of you..
I no longer have the worry of work, but I have paid in more than my fair share over nearly the last 40 years.

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
'...a bloody good war'. Oh yes, I see now, how wrong I've been all this time! Thanks so much, Crazy, all my arguments have been destroyed with that little gem...[/p][/quote]smithy, we cant afford a war can we,
we cant afford the servicemen we still just got!
but you have to ask who started the current drain on the countries wallet..
the smiling viper has his pension sod the rest of you..
I no longer have the worry of work, but I have paid in more than my fair share over nearly the last 40 years.My Jaywick

6079 Smith W wrote:
'...a bloody good war'. Oh yes, I see now, how wrong I've been all this time! Thanks so much, Crazy, all my arguments have been destroyed with that little gem...

smithy, we cant afford a war can we,
we cant afford the servicemen we still just got!
but you have to ask who started the current drain on the countries wallet..
the smiling viper has his pension sod the rest of you..
I no longer have the worry of work, but I have paid in more than my fair share over nearly the last 40 years.

Well weirdly enough, Cameron's managed to afford two this year. But of course what Crazy wants is Riccy Boy's and Robert Henderson's German comrades seizing power and dropping some bombs on this country.

[quote][p][bold]My Jaywick[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
'...a bloody good war'. Oh yes, I see now, how wrong I've been all this time! Thanks so much, Crazy, all my arguments have been destroyed with that little gem...[/p][/quote]smithy, we cant afford a war can we,
we cant afford the servicemen we still just got!
but you have to ask who started the current drain on the countries wallet..
the smiling viper has his pension sod the rest of you..
I no longer have the worry of work, but I have paid in more than my fair share over nearly the last 40 years.[/p][/quote]Well weirdly enough, Cameron's managed to afford two this year. But of course what Crazy wants is Riccy Boy's and Robert Henderson's German comrades seizing power and dropping some bombs on this country.6079 Smith W

Now I have to say I am on the fence with this one. Everyone knows the strike will make absolutely no difference, so why have it?
On the other hand the laws of the land mean there is no other way to show how unhappy people are about what's going on.
What I DO OBJECT TO however is the people who simply see it as 'a day off'.
I was appalled by some info. imparted to me by a mate, whose brother & partner are both teachers.
Are they on a demo or picket line on strike day? NO! They have booked a cheap awayday ferry trip from Dover to Calais to go xmas shopping in FRANCE!!!
That's just a kick in the b*ll*cks to the UK workers isn't it?

Now I have to say I am on the fence with this one. Everyone knows the strike will make absolutely no difference, so why have it?
On the other hand the laws of the land mean there is no other way to show how unhappy people are about what's going on.
What I DO OBJECT TO however is the people who simply see it as 'a day off'.
I was appalled by some info. imparted to me by a mate, whose brother & partner are both teachers.
Are they on a demo or picket line on strike day? NO! They have booked a cheap awayday ferry trip from Dover to Calais to go xmas shopping in FRANCE!!!
That's just a kick in the b*ll*cks to the UK workers isn't it?wobblybob

“Unions: the people who brought you the weekend. And capped working hours. And employment rights and protections. And fair wages. And pensions. And ended child labour. What a bunch of greedy bastards." - Priyamvada Gopal

Posted this elsewhere before realising this thread was better read:
“Unions: the people who brought you the weekend. And capped working hours. And employment rights and protections. And fair wages. And pensions. And ended child labour. What a bunch of greedy bastards." - Priyamvada GopalJohn the resonator

A CEO of a top company, a Daily Mail reader, and a shop steward are sitting round a table. On the table there are twelve biscuits. The CEO takes eleven of those biscuits. He turns to the Mail reader and says:-
'Watch that union guy, he's after your biscuit.'

A CEO of a top company, a Daily Mail reader, and a shop steward are sitting round a table. On the table there are twelve biscuits. The CEO takes eleven of those biscuits. He turns to the Mail reader and says:-
'Watch that union guy, he's after your biscuit.'6079 Smith W

This is a strike about greed pure and simple I work in the Private sector and pay into 2 pensions so that when and if I retire I can afford to live I am on not a very good wage so this is painful do I strike no I just get my head down and WORK . Greedy unions bully boy tatics . Labour ruined this country with the stupid policies that they hold so dear started 2 wars and yet its all Camerons fault for gods sake grow up

This is a strike about greed pure and simple I work in the Private sector and pay into 2 pensions so that when and if I retire I can afford to live I am on not a very good wage so this is painful do I strike no I just get my head down and WORK . Greedy unions bully boy tatics . Labour ruined this country with the stupid policies that they hold so dear started 2 wars and yet its all Camerons fault for gods sake grow upCvh

I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.

I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.fatmed

improving road safety wrote:
Have we all been here before? Cameron sad lads are trying to come over as being tough like the dark days of Maggie Thatcher. We all remember when Maggie Thatcher introduced the election carrot to allow social housing tenants to buy their houses at a discount price. Then the Iron lady took on the unions resulting in massive redundancies and thousands of disgruntled voters who found themselves unemployed and their dream houses being repossessed! This is the reason the social housing stock all over the country has diminished. I support the strikes.

read up on the COMMON PURPOSE exposed.Here is the thread:-
http://www.cpexposed
.com/
who is in charge?
not who you think!

[quote][p][bold]improving road safety[/bold] wrote:
Have we all been here before? Cameron sad lads are trying to come over as being tough like the dark days of Maggie Thatcher. We all remember when Maggie Thatcher introduced the election carrot to allow social housing tenants to buy their houses at a discount price. Then the Iron lady took on the unions resulting in massive redundancies and thousands of disgruntled voters who found themselves unemployed and their dream houses being repossessed! This is the reason the social housing stock all over the country has diminished. I support the strikes.[/p][/quote]read up on the COMMON PURPOSE exposed.Here is the thread:-
http://www.cpexposed
.com/
who is in charge?
not who you think!howwhy

6079 Smith W wrote:
A CEO of a top company, a Daily Mail reader, and a shop steward are sitting round a table. On the table there are twelve biscuits. The CEO takes eleven of those biscuits. He turns to the Mail reader and says:-
'Watch that union guy, he's after your biscuit.'

Funny!

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
A CEO of a top company, a Daily Mail reader, and a shop steward are sitting round a table. On the table there are twelve biscuits. The CEO takes eleven of those biscuits. He turns to the Mail reader and says:-
'Watch that union guy, he's after your biscuit.'[/p][/quote]Funny!John the resonator

See it for what it is, a political stunt by the unions and the Labour party to do all they can to try and bring down a government. They support the rioters, they support violent protests by students, they support the mob outside St Pauls. The unions and Labour will support anything that they think will bring this government down. As for the pensions, i'd like 25% of my salary paid into a pension for me. Can they also back date it for 10 years. That should give me about 90 grand. Perhaps they should do this for everyone. I'll even take the 15% they pay outside London.

See it for what it is, a political stunt by the unions and the Labour party to do all they can to try and bring down a government. They support the rioters, they support violent protests by students, they support the mob outside St Pauls. The unions and Labour will support anything that they think will bring this government down. As for the pensions, i'd like 25% of my salary paid into a pension for me. Can they also back date it for 10 years. That should give me about 90 grand. Perhaps they should do this for everyone. I'll even take the 15% they pay outside London.ebagumtrebor

I cant work because of the days strike, I do not have a large pension to look forward to, yet I am being penalised by other people whom dare I say it are selfish, so for all those people affected by this strike just before Christmas especially those with young familys, bahh humbug to you all !!!”

I cant work because of the days strike, I do not have a large pension to look forward to, yet I am being penalised by other people whom dare I say it are selfish, so for all those people affected by this strike just before Christmas especially those with young familys, bahh humbug to you all !!!”HI.GARY

billericay boy wrote: Ps: just be bloody thankfully you still have a job as I know many people that have said I'm indispensable. In one day gone the next.

So the Robert Henderson citing Nazi low-life is back. Trade unionists were of course among the first people Nazis threw into concentration camps, so let's take absolutely no notice of this brain dead numb skull. And no denials this time, 'Riccy Boy'. You exposed yourself with that particular citation.

Godwin's Law...yawn
**
(look it up on wikipedia)
**
Just out of interest who sold all our gold reserves at its lowest price ?

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]billericay boy[/bold] wrote: Ps: just be bloody thankfully you still have a job as I know many people that have said I'm indispensable. In one day gone the next.[/p][/quote]So the Robert Henderson citing Nazi low-life is back. Trade unionists were of course among the first people Nazis threw into concentration camps, so let's take absolutely no notice of this brain dead numb skull. And no denials this time, 'Riccy Boy'. You exposed yourself with that particular citation.[/p][/quote]Godwin's Law...yawn
**
(look it up on wikipedia)
**
Just out of interest who sold all our gold reserves at its lowest price ?OneManOneVoice

wobblybob wrote:
Now I have to say I am on the fence with this one. Everyone knows the strike will make absolutely no difference, so why have it? On the other hand the laws of the land mean there is no other way to show how unhappy people are about what's going on. What I DO OBJECT TO however is the people who simply see it as 'a day off'. I was appalled by some info. imparted to me by a mate, whose brother &amp; partner are both teachers. Are they on a demo or picket line on strike day? NO! They have booked a cheap awayday ferry trip from Dover to Calais to go xmas shopping in FRANCE!!! That's just a kick in the b*ll*cks to the UK workers isn't it?

You've hit the nail on the head there. Bet the pubs will be full of "strikers" tomorrow, & a lot will be out tonight as they don't have to work tomorrow.
This "day of action" is not about public sector pensions or defending workers' rights, it is politically motivated. If the unions really cared about workers (or even just their own members), they would have called strikes & protests when the private sector ceased final salary schemes or just did away with company pensions entirely, they would have marched on corporate HQs when workers had their sick pay taken away, or when they changed pay from monthly salaries to hourly paid 4 weekly wages, but they didn't even approach the government to discuss this.
I understand that people want to keep their rights & pensions, but when they never did a thing when everyone else had these things taken from them, they cannot expect mainstream support I'm afraid.
Oh, & never forget, the paid union officials organising tomorrow's events won't be losing a day's pay or jeopardising their jobs..........

[quote][p][bold]wobblybob[/bold] wrote:
Now I have to say I am on the fence with this one. Everyone knows the strike will make absolutely no difference, so why have it? On the other hand the laws of the land mean there is no other way to show how unhappy people are about what's going on. What I DO OBJECT TO however is the people who simply see it as 'a day off'. I was appalled by some info. imparted to me by a mate, whose brother & partner are both teachers. Are they on a demo or picket line on strike day? NO! They have booked a cheap awayday ferry trip from Dover to Calais to go xmas shopping in FRANCE!!! That's just a kick in the b*ll*cks to the UK workers isn't it?[/p][/quote]You've hit the nail on the head there. Bet the pubs will be full of "strikers" tomorrow, & a lot will be out tonight as they don't have to work tomorrow.
This "day of action" is not about public sector pensions or defending workers' rights, it is politically motivated. If the unions really cared about workers (or even just their own members), they would have called strikes & protests when the private sector ceased final salary schemes or just did away with company pensions entirely, they would have marched on corporate HQs when workers had their sick pay taken away, or when they changed pay from monthly salaries to hourly paid 4 weekly wages, but they didn't even approach the government to discuss this.
I understand that people want to keep their rights & pensions, but when they never did a thing when everyone else had these things taken from them, they cannot expect mainstream support I'm afraid.
Oh, & never forget, the paid union officials organising tomorrow's events won't be losing a day's pay or jeopardising their jobs..........Bosniavet

6079 Smith W wrote:
What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.

I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.[/p][/quote]I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reportedmy brooklands

Gutted to see that the weather looks good tomorrow. A nice thunderstorm would have been perfect.

Still, it will provide some entertainment walking up the high street as the strikers try to hand me leaflets in support of their action.

Two fingered wave will be the reply.

Gutted to see that the weather looks good tomorrow. A nice thunderstorm would have been perfect.
Still, it will provide some entertainment walking up the high street as the strikers try to hand me leaflets in support of their action.
Two fingered wave will be the reply.seasider2010

Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children.
Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?
And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.

Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children.
Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?
And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.Taxpayingidiot

Taxpayingidiot wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children.
Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?
And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.

Did you complain when David Cameron shut the country down for a day for a royal wedding?

[quote][p][bold]Taxpayingidiot[/bold] wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children.
Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?
And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.[/p][/quote]Did you complain when David Cameron shut the country down for a day for a royal wedding?ADucksQuack

ADucksQuack wrote:
How many of those condemning the strikes were in favour of David Cameron shutting the country down for a day for a royal wedding?

To celebrate part of British Culture and be part of it ? Yeah, I think it was a good gesture - had a nice street party and was a change from the doom and gloom.
**
Can't see how that's relevant to this story though.

[quote][p][bold]ADucksQuack[/bold] wrote:
How many of those condemning the strikes were in favour of David Cameron shutting the country down for a day for a royal wedding?[/p][/quote]To celebrate part of British Culture and be part of it ? Yeah, I think it was a good gesture - had a nice street party and was a change from the doom and gloom.
**
Can't see how that's relevant to this story though.OneManOneVoice

ADucksQuack wrote:
How many of those condemning the strikes were in favour of David Cameron shutting the country down for a day for a royal wedding?

To celebrate part of British Culture and be part of it ? Yeah, I think it was a good gesture - had a nice street party and was a change from the doom and gloom.
**
Can't see how that's relevant to this story though.

So people striking to protect their jobs and future income is wrong, but stopping the entire country in its tracks for a frivolous reason like a wedding is ok? You have strange priorities.

[quote][p][bold]OneManOneVoice[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]ADucksQuack[/bold] wrote:
How many of those condemning the strikes were in favour of David Cameron shutting the country down for a day for a royal wedding?[/p][/quote]To celebrate part of British Culture and be part of it ? Yeah, I think it was a good gesture - had a nice street party and was a change from the doom and gloom.
**
Can't see how that's relevant to this story though.[/p][/quote]So people striking to protect their jobs and future income is wrong, but stopping the entire country in its tracks for a frivolous reason like a wedding is ok? You have strange priorities.ADucksQuack

Taxpayingidiot wrote:
No as it was a holiday are you saying that all you want is a day off

I'm saying that it seems an extraordinary hypocrisy to think stopping the entire country for a day - costing the economy billions - for something as trivial as a wedding is ok, but saying people striking to protect their jobs, income, and pensions is wrong.

[quote][p][bold]Taxpayingidiot[/bold] wrote:
No as it was a holiday are you saying that all you want is a day off[/p][/quote]I'm saying that it seems an extraordinary hypocrisy to think stopping the entire country for a day - costing the economy billions - for something as trivial as a wedding is ok, but saying people striking to protect their jobs, income, and pensions is wrong.ADucksQuack

Roll on Christmas day then we can all have a day off with pay or no pay and that smith person who is allways on about nazis can play with is nut crackers whilst watching the muppets Christmas carol.

Roll on Christmas day then we can all have a day off with pay or no pay and that smith person who is allways on about nazis can play with is nut crackers whilst watching the muppets Christmas carol.billericay boy

surely that *is* the whole point of a strike? what's the point of striking to affect no one? no one will care or even notice them striking, so the reason they're striking would be lost.

"Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?"
surely that *is* the whole point of a strike? what's the point of striking to affect no one? no one will care or even notice them striking, so the reason they're striking would be lost.wormshero

It is to protect a pension that is not affordable and the point of a strike is to force a situation via blackmail or force talks to commence to sort it out, but this will not change anything by all of these workers refusing to work and in the current climate there are a lot of people waiting in the wings to replace them.
Bide your time people strike is not the answer

It is to protect a pension that is not affordable and the point of a strike is to force a situation via blackmail or force talks to commence to sort it out, but this will not change anything by all of these workers refusing to work and in the current climate there are a lot of people waiting in the wings to replace them.
Bide your time people strike is not the answerTaxpayingidiot

My full support is for the civil servants, to the teachers, and other white collar workers, in this dispute. Even though these same civil servants did not give any support to to other trade unionists in the past. When the T&G, the AEU, GWMU, ASLEF, the postal unions, and the coal minors all had disputes in the past, we had NO backing from them at all. Maybe if we had, we would still be enjoying an engineering industry, and the coal mining and steel, industries would not have been desimated. Just maybe the UK would be a better place to live. It certainly would'nt be any worse than it is today.

My full support is for the civil servants, to the teachers, and other white collar workers, in this dispute. Even though these same civil servants did not give any support to to other trade unionists in the past. When the T&G, the AEU, GWMU, ASLEF, the postal unions, and the coal minors all had disputes in the past, we had NO backing from them at all. Maybe if we had, we would still be enjoying an engineering industry, and the coal mining and steel, industries would not have been desimated. Just maybe the UK would be a better place to live. It certainly would'nt be any worse than it is today.25414nora

ADucksQuack wrote:
How many of those condemning the strikes were in favour of David Cameron shutting the country down for a day for a royal wedding?

In favour of it or not, I worked that day. Bet you happily took the day off when it was offered to you though.

[quote][p][bold]ADucksQuack[/bold] wrote:
How many of those condemning the strikes were in favour of David Cameron shutting the country down for a day for a royal wedding?[/p][/quote]In favour of it or not, I worked that day. Bet you happily took the day off when it was offered to you though.Bosniavet

I am quite a reasonable person and am employed in the private section.

What makes me different from many of users on this site is I am not politically aligned to any political group.

As a reasonable man I FULLY understand that financially we are in trouble that is obvious to anyone taking into account Europe and their problems.

Therefore any reasonable person must say this is not the time to go on strike.

I also cannot understand how any person can say ' I want more money and I want you to pay'

I understand the demand is for pensions etc BUT that means I still will have to pay.

I have had my pay reduced from 6 years ago, I am expected to work longer my pension has not increased.

So with regard to CIVIL SERVANTS I believe you are completely selfish IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE !!!

I am quite a reasonable person and am employed in the private section.
What makes me different from many of users on this site is I am not politically aligned to any political group.
As a reasonable man I FULLY understand that financially we are in trouble that is obvious to anyone taking into account Europe and their problems.
Therefore any reasonable person must say this is not the time to go on strike.
I also cannot understand how any person can say ' I want more money and I want you to pay'
I understand the demand is for pensions etc BUT that means I still will have to pay.
I have had my pay reduced from 6 years ago, I am expected to work longer my pension has not increased.
So with regard to CIVIL SERVANTS I believe you are completely selfish IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE !!!Brunning999

I understand some of the comments on here about private sector etc, but this is about fairness. How fair is it for people to pay more to get less and to work for longer, when they have signed up for something totally different. Why not implement the changes to new employees that sign up, not backdate the changes to people that have been in the schemes for years! This strike is right and I support everyone on it.

I understand some of the comments on here about private sector etc, but this is about fairness. How fair is it for people to pay more to get less and to work for longer, when they have signed up for something totally different. Why not implement the changes to new employees that sign up, not backdate the changes to people that have been in the schemes for years! This strike is right and I support everyone on it.crash19811

Where were these Union protesters when gordon Brown started looting the private pension pot? Now public sector workers are striking for the right to rob the poor to pay the rich..themselves. like reverse Robin Hood's at least he had the good manners to do it with only moderate violence. These bully boys want an all out punch up.
You want a decent pension public sector workers, do remember your free to transfer to any private scheme you like but seeing as how yours is already gold plated in comparison you just won't. Your strike is just sheer greed at the expense of the really poor.

Where were these Union protesters when gordon Brown started looting the private pension pot? Now public sector workers are striking for the right to rob the poor to pay the rich..themselves. like reverse Robin Hood's at least he had the good manners to do it with only moderate violence. These bully boys want an all out punch up.
You want a decent pension public sector workers, do remember your free to transfer to any private scheme you like but seeing as how yours is already gold plated in comparison you just won't. Your strike is just sheer greed at the expense of the really poor.EthanEdwards

How come there has never been a strike or even a threat of one for the poorest in our community. The strike is orchestrated by the union leaders who are one of the few people that will not be inconvenienced or lose a days pay tomorrow.

How come there has never been a strike or even a threat of one for the poorest in our community. The strike is orchestrated by the union leaders who are one of the few people that will not be inconvenienced or lose a days pay tomorrow.roger bacon

Brunning999 wrote:
I am quite a reasonable person and am employed in the private section. What makes me different from many of users on this site is I am not politically aligned to any political group. As a reasonable man I FULLY understand that financially we are in trouble that is obvious to anyone taking into account Europe and their problems. Therefore any reasonable person must say this is not the time to go on strike. I also cannot understand how any person can say ' I want more money and I want you to pay' I understand the demand is for pensions etc BUT that means I still will have to pay. I have had my pay reduced from 6 years ago, I am expected to work longer my pension has not increased. So with regard to CIVIL SERVANTS I believe you are completely selfish IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE !!!

Hear, Hear!
Sensible & clear argument from a reasonable person as you said.

[quote][p][bold]Brunning999[/bold] wrote:
I am quite a reasonable person and am employed in the private section. What makes me different from many of users on this site is I am not politically aligned to any political group. As a reasonable man I FULLY understand that financially we are in trouble that is obvious to anyone taking into account Europe and their problems. Therefore any reasonable person must say this is not the time to go on strike. I also cannot understand how any person can say ' I want more money and I want you to pay' I understand the demand is for pensions etc BUT that means I still will have to pay. I have had my pay reduced from 6 years ago, I am expected to work longer my pension has not increased. So with regard to CIVIL SERVANTS I believe you are completely selfish IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE !!![/p][/quote]Hear, Hear!
Sensible & clear argument from a reasonable person as you said.Bosniavet

roger bacon wrote:
How come there has never been a strike or even a threat of one for the poorest in our community. The strike is orchestrated by the union leaders who are one of the few people that will not be inconvenienced or lose a days pay tomorrow.

Exactly.......

[quote][p][bold]roger bacon[/bold] wrote:
How come there has never been a strike or even a threat of one for the poorest in our community. The strike is orchestrated by the union leaders who are one of the few people that will not be inconvenienced or lose a days pay tomorrow.[/p][/quote]Exactly.......Bosniavet

Unions: the people who brought you the weekend. And capped working hours. And employment rights and protections. And fair wages. And pensions. And ended child labour. What a bunch of greedy bastards." - Priyamvada Gopal

Unions: the people who brought you the weekend. And capped working hours. And employment rights and protections. And fair wages. And pensions. And ended child labour. What a bunch of greedy bastards." - Priyamvada GopalADucksQuack

No, I don't, but I don't remember bank cashiers, shopworkers, bus drivers, security guards, train drivers, taxi drivers, workers in private care homes, road builders, house builders or charity workers doing it either.
I do rememnber successive governments doing various things, including one that deployed troops to more wars & conflicts since 1945, sold our gold reserves when gold was at an all time low, decided they knew better than other EU countries over the desire of people from the former Soviet Bloc countries to better themselves, allowed all comers to claim welfare benefits & continued to borrow money to pay the welfare bill instead of investing in order to address the underlying problem.

Oh, & of course, they also bailed out the banks when a large part of the population asked them not to...
Maybe it was them?

[quote][p][bold]ADucksQuack[/bold] wrote:
Remember when Teachers, Policemen, Police staff, Ambulance staff, NHS staff, Midwives, Doctors, Social and Care Workers and Firemen crashed the stock market, wiped out Banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax? No, me neither.[/p][/quote]No, I don't, but I don't remember bank cashiers, shopworkers, bus drivers, security guards, train drivers, taxi drivers, workers in private care homes, road builders, house builders or charity workers doing it either.
I do rememnber successive governments doing various things, including one that deployed troops to more wars & conflicts since 1945, sold our gold reserves when gold was at an all time low, decided they knew better than other EU countries over the desire of people from the former Soviet Bloc countries to better themselves, allowed all comers to claim welfare benefits & continued to borrow money to pay the welfare bill instead of investing in order to address the underlying problem.
Oh, & of course, they also bailed out the banks when a large part of the population asked them not to...
Maybe it was them?Bosniavet

billericay boy wrote: Ps: just be bloody thankfully you still have a job as I know many people that have said I'm indispensable. In one day gone the next.

So the Robert Henderson citing Nazi low-life is back. Trade unionists were of course among the first people Nazis threw into concentration camps, so let's take absolutely no notice of this brain dead numb skull. And no denials this time, 'Riccy Boy'. You exposed yourself with that particular citation.

Godwin's Law...yawn
**
(look it up on wikipedia)
**
Just out of interest who sold all our gold reserves at its lowest price ?

You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund. Before trying to sound clever, may I suggest you do some research?
Moan about New Labour from some boring, lazy, wally. Very big yawn.

[quote][p][bold]OneManOneVoice[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]billericay boy[/bold] wrote: Ps: just be bloody thankfully you still have a job as I know many people that have said I'm indispensable. In one day gone the next.[/p][/quote]So the Robert Henderson citing Nazi low-life is back. Trade unionists were of course among the first people Nazis threw into concentration camps, so let's take absolutely no notice of this brain dead numb skull. And no denials this time, 'Riccy Boy'. You exposed yourself with that particular citation.[/p][/quote]Godwin's Law...yawn
**
(look it up on wikipedia)
**
Just out of interest who sold all our gold reserves at its lowest price ?[/p][/quote]You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund. Before trying to sound clever, may I suggest you do some research?
Moan about New Labour from some boring, lazy, wally. Very big yawn.6079 Smith W

6079 Smith W wrote:
What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.

I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported

See my previous comment. If you find me more offensive than the Nazis, then heaven help you.

[quote][p][bold]my brooklands[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.[/p][/quote]I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported[/p][/quote]See my previous comment. If you find me more offensive than the Nazis, then heaven help you.6079 Smith W

Taxpayingidiot wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children.
Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?
And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.

Yup, you said it, you are an idiot. Weirdly enough, you become a Nazi by espousing Nazi ideology. Which is why you need to see my previous posts about our Robert Henderson citing Nazi.
Always quite prepared to have an argument with those that disagree with me, but whether we're for or anti these strikes, for or anti the cuts, etc, we should certainly be against 'Riccy Boy's' race hate.

[quote][p][bold]Taxpayingidiot[/bold] wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children.
Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ?
And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.[/p][/quote]Yup, you said it, you are an idiot. Weirdly enough, you become a Nazi by espousing Nazi ideology. Which is why you need to see my previous posts about our Robert Henderson citing Nazi.
Always quite prepared to have an argument with those that disagree with me, but whether we're for or anti these strikes, for or anti the cuts, etc, we should certainly be against 'Riccy Boy's' race hate.6079 Smith W

This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.

Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.

As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.

This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.
Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.
As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.John the resonator

John the resonator wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.

Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.

As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.

Oh John!
As said:-
"You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.

[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.
Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.
As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.[/p][/quote]Oh John!
As said:-
"You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.6079 Smith W

6079 Smith W wrote:
What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.

I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported

See my previous comment. If you find me more offensive than the Nazis, then heaven help you.

Your a sad case

Says our self-appointed website referee.

[quote][p][bold]my brooklands[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]my brooklands[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.[/p][/quote]I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported[/p][/quote]See my previous comment. If you find me more offensive than the Nazis, then heaven help you.[/p][/quote]Your a sad case[/p][/quote]Says our self-appointed website referee.6079 Smith W

Taxpayingidiot wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children. Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ? And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.

What 'Government set training day'? If only there was such a thing for me I am not a Teacher if I have training I have to make up the missing time for the day job in the evenings - NO I DO NOT GET PAID FOR THIS.

[quote][p][bold]Taxpayingidiot[/bold] wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children. Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ? And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.[/p][/quote]What 'Government set training day'? If only there was such a thing for me I am not a Teacher if I have training I have to make up the missing time for the day job in the evenings - NO I DO NOT GET PAID FOR THIS.crum

Brunning999 wrote:
I am quite a reasonable person and am employed in the private section. What makes me different from many of users on this site is I am not politically aligned to any political group. As a reasonable man I FULLY understand that financially we are in trouble that is obvious to anyone taking into account Europe and their problems. Therefore any reasonable person must say this is not the time to go on strike. I also cannot understand how any person can say ' I want more money and I want you to pay' I understand the demand is for pensions etc BUT that means I still will have to pay. I have had my pay reduced from 6 years ago, I am expected to work longer my pension has not increased. So with regard to CIVIL SERVANTS I believe you are completely selfish IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE !!!

Get real and find the full facts, I worked in the private sector with a gold plated final salary pension at 60, nice bonus payments and other benefits worth some £4000 approx.

I was TUPED into my current civil service job and what do I end up with?

Pension now payable at 65, total loss of my £4000 benefits, three years of pay of no increase in pay AT ALL!

Guess what I am doing tomorrow - yes I AM WORKING!!!!!

Do NOT judge us all on the benifit received by Police, members of Fire Services and the NHS, who all can retire before 65.

I am now earning less than I did 10 years age, Brunning999 - how is this reasonable as my average working week is some 50 hours - no overtime payment so I am giving prats like you 13 hours of my life weekly.

[quote][p][bold]Brunning999[/bold] wrote:
I am quite a reasonable person and am employed in the private section. What makes me different from many of users on this site is I am not politically aligned to any political group. As a reasonable man I FULLY understand that financially we are in trouble that is obvious to anyone taking into account Europe and their problems. Therefore any reasonable person must say this is not the time to go on strike. I also cannot understand how any person can say ' I want more money and I want you to pay' I understand the demand is for pensions etc BUT that means I still will have to pay. I have had my pay reduced from 6 years ago, I am expected to work longer my pension has not increased. So with regard to CIVIL SERVANTS I believe you are completely selfish IT IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO STRIKE !!![/p][/quote]Get real and find the full facts, I worked in the private sector with a gold plated final salary pension at 60, nice bonus payments and other benefits worth some £4000 approx.
I was TUPED into my current civil service job and what do I end up with?
Pension now payable at 65, total loss of my £4000 benefits, three years of pay of no increase in pay AT ALL!
Guess what I am doing tomorrow - yes I AM WORKING!!!!!
Do NOT judge us all on the benifit received by Police, members of Fire Services and the NHS, who all can retire before 65.
I am now earning less than I did 10 years age, Brunning999 - how is this reasonable as my average working week is some 50 hours - no overtime payment so I am giving prats like you 13 hours of my life weekly.crum

John the resonator wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.

Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.

As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.

Oh John!
As said:-
&quot;You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.

I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.
Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.
As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.[/p][/quote]Oh John!
As said:-
"You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.[/p][/quote]I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.John the resonator

Didn't your mother tell you it'll never get better if you picket..............
....

So where was all this industrial inaction when Gordon McDoom was stealing from the private sector pension pot? Nah thought not.

Didn't your mother tell you it'll never get better if you picket..............
....
So where was all this industrial inaction when Gordon McDoom was stealing from the private sector pension pot? Nah thought not.EthanEdwards

the whole sorry affair is to be laid firmly at the feet of cameron and clegg.cameron didn't get a mandate and clegg gave him the extra needed because of the downright lies he told the public.we have a shambolic administration led by muppets.god save the queen, up the u's .open the cage.

the whole sorry affair is to be laid firmly at the feet of cameron and clegg.cameron didn't get a mandate and clegg gave him the extra needed because of the downright lies he told the public.we have a shambolic administration led by muppets.god save the queen, up the u's .open the cage.wellnow

EthanEdwards wrote:
Didn't your mother tell you it'll never get better if you picket..............

....

So where was all this industrial inaction when Gordon McDoom was stealing from the private sector pension pot? Nah thought not.

I agree. Unfortunately the Private Sector doesn't have a Union to rely upon.

The fact is, this is just another part of the elite in this country ripping off the workers of this country.

We should all have decent pensions, not just the Public Sector and for that I hope the public sector get what they want, and then the Private Sector follow.

The elite want to fragment us all so we dont see the money being drained by big business, CEO's and the rich toying with lives.

The fact so many read The Sun/Daily Mail and accept the headline as gospel says more about the readers. Those people want to lower the bar so all get less, rather than raising the bar so all have fairness.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
Didn't your mother tell you it'll never get better if you picket..............
....
So where was all this industrial inaction when Gordon McDoom was stealing from the private sector pension pot? Nah thought not.[/p][/quote]I agree. Unfortunately the Private Sector doesn't have a Union to rely upon.
The fact is, this is just another part of the elite in this country ripping off the workers of this country.
We should all have decent pensions, not just the Public Sector and for that I hope the public sector get what they want, and then the Private Sector follow.
The elite want to fragment us all so we dont see the money being drained by big business, CEO's and the rich toying with lives.
The fact so many read The Sun/Daily Mail and accept the headline as gospel says more about the readers. Those people want to lower the bar so all get less, rather than raising the bar so all have fairness.No! I am Spartacus

billericay boy wrote:
Public sector workers, stop fefin moaning about pensions that is what you get when you are nearly dead, if you are not happy within your job and I bet pensions was on the bottom of your list when you applied, get another one. Try running your own business and I will tell you now pensions will be your least of concern. The government and some public sector workers make our lives hell. And we don't get paid bonuses, holiday, sick pay, and every other pay that we pay for.

It's the fact that the government changes the goalposts whenever they like (despite the fat cats at the top getting ever fatter!) which is DISGUSTING!

What's the betting they wont do the same and shaft all the students who go to uni now, ending up with 50000 or 60000 debt. At the moment they say they wont have to pay back until they earn over 21,000 and the interest rate is capped and whatever they still owe will be written off after 30 years. Who wants to bet their shirt on those terms changing when everyone has been sucked in??? They'll likely be told at some time in the future "we cant afford those terms any more...."

[quote][p][bold]billericay boy[/bold] wrote:
Public sector workers, stop fefin moaning about pensions that is what you get when you are nearly dead, if you are not happy within your job and I bet pensions was on the bottom of your list when you applied, get another one. Try running your own business and I will tell you now pensions will be your least of concern. The government and some public sector workers make our lives hell. And we don't get paid bonuses, holiday, sick pay, and every other pay that we pay for.[/p][/quote]It's the fact that the government changes the goalposts whenever they like (despite the fat cats at the top getting ever fatter!) which is DISGUSTING!
What's the betting they wont do the same and shaft all the students who go to uni now, ending up with 50000 or 60000 debt. At the moment they say they wont have to pay back until they earn over 21,000 and the interest rate is capped and whatever they still owe will be written off after 30 years. Who wants to bet their shirt on those terms changing when everyone has been sucked in??? They'll likely be told at some time in the future "we cant afford those terms any more...."heartbeat

no your not spartacus.your that bloke from the union education school.
the bloke beating his head against a wall.
the bloke who only had one book in his case ,"the ragged trousered philanthropist".the private sector had many unions before thatcher and scargil.
they all used the same outmoded tactic that the public sector are now embarking on.

no your not spartacus.your that bloke from the union education school.
the bloke beating his head against a wall.
the bloke who only had one book in his case ,"the ragged trousered philanthropist".the private sector had many unions before thatcher and scargil.
they all used the same outmoded tactic that the public sector are now embarking on.wellnow

6079 Smith W wrote:
A CEO of a top company, a Daily Mail reader, and a shop steward are sitting round a table. On the table there are twelve biscuits. The CEO takes eleven of those biscuits. He turns to the Mail reader and says:- 'Watch that union guy, he's after your biscuit.'

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
A CEO of a top company, a Daily Mail reader, and a shop steward are sitting round a table. On the table there are twelve biscuits. The CEO takes eleven of those biscuits. He turns to the Mail reader and says:- 'Watch that union guy, he's after your biscuit.'[/p][/quote]Shop steward: 'Those 12 biscuits should have been shared 7 each! Nobody will have biscuits anymore!!'
Daily Mail reader: 'You're both stupid aren't you'.RobWalker

A hundred mugs go to work at Basildon council for £10,000 pa each and their pay is frozen, They hear that a man with a golden pen has been given a £10,000 bonus which shared out would have given them a 1% pay increase. They hear about £25,000 being spent on a Billeicay toilet which could have given them a 2 1/2% pay rise and still they do nothing. They hear about the millions spent on new roofs and kitchens for council houses that privately owned homes seem not to need but still they do nothing.

A hundred mugs go to work at Basildon council for £10,000 pa each and their pay is frozen, They hear that a man with a golden pen has been given a £10,000 bonus which shared out would have given them a 1% pay increase. They hear about £25,000 being spent on a Billeicay toilet which could have given them a 2 1/2% pay rise and still they do nothing. They hear about the millions spent on new roofs and kitchens for council houses that privately owned homes seem not to need but still they do nothing.85Ford

i appreciate comments from both sides of the fence. I have been nursing at broomfield hospital for around 9 years. In this time i have seen many cuts, efficiency drives and poor staff moral.
I SHALL be supporting the strikes today! Not only because our pensions are being picked at and previous promises from government broken but because the NHS as we know it is disintegrating. The more we keep quite and watch as pay is capped and pension payments increased the bigger threat to the bigger picture. Patient care!!!! Public sector workers do a bloody good job! The educators, life savers and protectors are what hold this country together!
Good luck to everybody both public and private sector and lets try to get through these tough times together! x

i appreciate comments from both sides of the fence. I have been nursing at broomfield hospital for around 9 years. In this time i have seen many cuts, efficiency drives and poor staff moral.
I SHALL be supporting the strikes today! Not only because our pensions are being picked at and previous promises from government broken but because the NHS as we know it is disintegrating. The more we keep quite and watch as pay is capped and pension payments increased the bigger threat to the bigger picture. Patient care!!!! Public sector workers do a bloody good job! The educators, life savers and protectors are what hold this country together!
Good luck to everybody both public and private sector and lets try to get through these tough times together! xlocalhealthcareworker

EthanEdwards wrote: Didn't your mother tell you it'll never get better if you picket.............. .... So where was all this industrial inaction when Gordon McDoom was stealing from the private sector pension pot? Nah thought not.

I agree. Unfortunately the Private Sector doesn't have a Union to rely upon. The fact is, this is just another part of the elite in this country ripping off the workers of this country. We should all have decent pensions, not just the Public Sector and for that I hope the public sector get what they want, and then the Private Sector follow. The elite want to fragment us all so we dont see the money being drained by big business, CEO's and the rich toying with lives. The fact so many read The Sun/Daily Mail and accept the headline as gospel says more about the readers. Those people want to lower the bar so all get less, rather than raising the bar so all have fairness.

Well said - I couldn't agree more

[quote][p][bold]No! I am Spartacus[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote: Didn't your mother tell you it'll never get better if you picket.............. .... So where was all this industrial inaction when Gordon McDoom was stealing from the private sector pension pot? Nah thought not.[/p][/quote]I agree. Unfortunately the Private Sector doesn't have a Union to rely upon. The fact is, this is just another part of the elite in this country ripping off the workers of this country. We should all have decent pensions, not just the Public Sector and for that I hope the public sector get what they want, and then the Private Sector follow. The elite want to fragment us all so we dont see the money being drained by big business, CEO's and the rich toying with lives. The fact so many read The Sun/Daily Mail and accept the headline as gospel says more about the readers. Those people want to lower the bar so all get less, rather than raising the bar so all have fairness.[/p][/quote]Well said - I couldn't agree moreDingbat60

Taxpayingidiot wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children. Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ? And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.

Looks like the strike has been timed to coincide with the last day for filing self-certification at tax office. If your declaration is late you can't get fined!

[quote][p][bold]Taxpayingidiot[/bold] wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children. Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ? And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.[/p][/quote]Looks like the strike has been timed to coincide with the last day for filing self-certification at tax office. If your declaration is late you can't get fined!Alekhine

85Ford wrote:
A hundred mugs go to work at Basildon council for £10,000 pa each and their pay is frozen, They hear that a man with a golden pen has been given a £10,000 bonus which shared out would have given them a 1% pay increase. They hear about £25,000 being spent on a Billeicay toilet which could have given them a 2 1/2% pay rise and still they do nothing. They hear about the millions spent on new roofs and kitchens for council houses that privately owned homes seem not to need but still they do nothing.

A 1% rise on £10k pa is £100, or to put it another way

[quote][p][bold]85Ford[/bold] wrote:
A hundred mugs go to work at Basildon council for £10,000 pa each and their pay is frozen, They hear that a man with a golden pen has been given a £10,000 bonus which shared out would have given them a 1% pay increase. They hear about £25,000 being spent on a Billeicay toilet which could have given them a 2 1/2% pay rise and still they do nothing. They hear about the millions spent on new roofs and kitchens for council houses that privately owned homes seem not to need but still they do nothing.[/p][/quote]A 1% rise on £10k pa is £100, or to put it another waycrowny

fatmed wrote:
I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.

Will you feel the same when you lose your 25% anti-social hours payment too?

[quote][p][bold]fatmed[/bold] wrote:
I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.[/p][/quote]Will you feel the same when you lose your 25% anti-social hours payment too?Walt Jabsco

Taxpayingidiot wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children. Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ? And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.

Looks like the strike has been timed to coincide with the last day for filing self-certification at tax office. If your declaration is late you can't get fined!

Well that was very decent of them. What do you think tax payer?

[quote][p][bold]Alekhine[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Taxpayingidiot[/bold] wrote:
Why dont they strike on the Goverment set training days, that way they will be making a statement with no disruption to the education of our children. Or is this about causing as much disruption as possible ? And what are all these people on here talking about Nazi's for, do you become a Nazi when you dont agree with someones politics, very strange very strange indeed.[/p][/quote]Looks like the strike has been timed to coincide with the last day for filing self-certification at tax office. If your declaration is late you can't get fined![/p][/quote]Well that was very decent of them. What do you think tax payer?pamen7

Citizen 139 wrote:
Short memory you appear to have, the previous government have almost bankrupted the country.

at least things were improving..the ConDems have made things far worse for nearly everyone.

[quote][p][bold]Citizen 139[/bold] wrote:
Short memory you appear to have, the previous government have almost bankrupted the country.[/p][/quote]at least things were improving..the ConDems have made things far worse for nearly everyone.andy:)

It is a disgrace that many see fit to criticise people for striking when we are still paying MP's £100k or more for telling us all that we "are all in it together" and that we must tighten our belts.

I don't know about anyone else here but I've yet to see any MP announce they are taking a pay cut, paying more into their pension, working for longer, or that they will be making any other sort of sacrifices as they expect the public to do.

Instead of sitting here criticising those on strike (and I'm not one of them as I'm a private sector worker) we should ALL be supporting them and directing our anger and attacks at those who are sitting on the masses of money we have paid them for telling us what to do.

Cameron is a millionaire - why then is he still being paid nearly £200k for a role he wasn't even elected by a majority to do?!?!

Wake up people.

It is a disgrace that many see fit to criticise people for striking when we are still paying MP's £100k or more for telling us all that we "are all in it together" and that we must tighten our belts.
I don't know about anyone else here but I've yet to see any MP announce they are taking a pay cut, paying more into their pension, working for longer, or that they will be making any other sort of sacrifices as they expect the public to do.
Instead of sitting here criticising those on strike (and I'm not one of them as I'm a private sector worker) we should ALL be supporting them and directing our anger and attacks at those who are sitting on the masses of money we have paid them for telling us what to do.
Cameron is a millionaire - why then is he still being paid nearly £200k for a role he wasn't even elected by a majority to do?!?!
Wake up people.ravenmorpheus

The Tories are as useless as Nu Lab. These "reforms" may well end up costing the tax payer more. I know a number of young teachers who will withdraw from the pension scheme if the retirement age goes up to 68 and contributions go up by £100 per month. I dare say they think they can all claim pension credits like most do in the private sector who never bothered taking out a second pension. I suspect the real reason for this attack on public sector pensions is to run the schemes down. This is to make privatisation more attractive to the private sector speculators whom Cameron wants to take over the public sector.

The Tories are as useless as Nu Lab. These "reforms" may well end up costing the tax payer more. I know a number of young teachers who will withdraw from the pension scheme if the retirement age goes up to 68 and contributions go up by £100 per month. I dare say they think they can all claim pension credits like most do in the private sector who never bothered taking out a second pension. I suspect the real reason for this attack on public sector pensions is to run the schemes down. This is to make privatisation more attractive to the private sector speculators whom Cameron wants to take over the public sector.Marcus P

We are paying the price for years of labours bad housekeeping,this strike is labour backed as they seek to
cause the government problems,there is no money to pay these people,they are lucky to have a job,to any striker i say think about what you are doing,get back to work,save your jobs be happy for what you have.

We are paying the price for years of labours bad housekeeping,this strike is labour backed as they seek to
cause the government problems,there is no money to pay these people,they are lucky to have a job,to any striker i say think about what you are doing,get back to work,save your jobs be happy for what you have.co2

co2 wrote:
We are paying the price for years of labours bad housekeeping,this strike is labour backed as they seek to
cause the government problems,there is no money to pay these people,they are lucky to have a job,to any striker i say think about what you are doing,get back to work,save your jobs be happy for what you have.

Funny. We seem to find money to give to the EU, to India, to Pakistan, to any other country you care to mention.

And we also seem to be able to afford the pensions of MPs.

Not to mention we all of a sudden found money to go fight in Libya, which by the way we officially didn't...

And yet the likes of you continually say that there is no money for nurses, teachers, fire fighters, policemen or anyone else to live a comfortable life when they retire.

Where is the lie?

[quote][p][bold]co2[/bold] wrote:
We are paying the price for years of labours bad housekeeping,this strike is labour backed as they seek to
cause the government problems,there is no money to pay these people,they are lucky to have a job,to any striker i say think about what you are doing,get back to work,save your jobs be happy for what you have.[/p][/quote]Funny. We seem to find money to give to the EU, to India, to Pakistan, to any other country you care to mention.
And we also seem to be able to afford the pensions of MPs.
Not to mention we all of a sudden found money to go fight in Libya, which by the way we officially didn't...
And yet the likes of you continually say that there is no money for nurses, teachers, fire fighters, policemen or anyone else to live a comfortable life when they retire.
Where is the lie?ravenmorpheus

i have no pension as ive had to use up all the money i earn to live on a week to week basis,these striking teachers meant my wife lost a days pay to be at home with the children....money we can ill afford to lose...i hope the strike costs them their jobs...the dole que beckons

i have no pension as ive had to use up all the money i earn to live on a week to week basis,these striking teachers meant my wife lost a days pay to be at home with the children....money we can ill afford to lose...i hope the strike costs them their jobs...the dole que beckonsco2

fatmed wrote:
I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.

If you look at your Union website then you will see that all unions have made an agreement to provide 'emergency' cover on the day of the strike. Under the emergency cover arrangements staff who work on the road treating patients will only respond to the most seriously ill and injured patients and will not go to patients with minor conditions such as upset stomachs or cuts and bruises. Maybe we will see the emergency ambulances being used properly, at least for one day. No doubt usual service will resume tomorrow and emergency ambulances will be responding on blue lights to some people with trivial or non existent ailments demanding that something is done because they can't be bothered to take responsibility for their own health or actions .

[quote][p][bold]fatmed[/bold] wrote:
I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.[/p][/quote]If you look at your Union website then you will see that all unions have made an agreement to provide 'emergency' cover on the day of the strike. Under the emergency cover arrangements staff who work on the road treating patients will only respond to the most seriously ill and injured patients and will not go to patients with minor conditions such as upset stomachs or cuts and bruises. Maybe we will see the emergency ambulances being used properly, at least for one day. No doubt usual service will resume tomorrow and emergency ambulances will be responding on blue lights to some people with trivial or non existent ailments demanding that something is done because they can't be bothered to take responsibility for their own health or actions .dinosaur1

fatmed wrote: I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.

If you look at your Union website then you will see that all unions have made an agreement to provide 'emergency' cover on the day of the strike. Under the emergency cover arrangements staff who work on the road treating patients will only respond to the most seriously ill and injured patients and will not go to patients with minor conditions such as upset stomachs or cuts and bruises. Maybe we will see the emergency ambulances being used properly, at least for one day. No doubt usual service will resume tomorrow and emergency ambulances will be responding on blue lights to some people with trivial or non existent ailments demanding that something is done because they can't be bothered to take responsibility for their own health or actions .

fatmed,well done sir,someone with a thought for others and how their actions affect others,a decent human being who gets my thanks.

[quote][p][bold]dinosaur1[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]fatmed[/bold] wrote: I am a paramedic, I for one will not be taking part in tomorrows strike as I do not believe that punishing the sick as a tool to get a point across is worth it. I am probably going to be a lone responder as most of my colleagues will be on the picket line. The unions stated on my ballot forms they would not be expecting us to strike but still wanted us to register our vote anyway. Now they are calling us out. They lied! Lets hope no one dies as a result of these strikes.[/p][/quote]If you look at your Union website then you will see that all unions have made an agreement to provide 'emergency' cover on the day of the strike. Under the emergency cover arrangements staff who work on the road treating patients will only respond to the most seriously ill and injured patients and will not go to patients with minor conditions such as upset stomachs or cuts and bruises. Maybe we will see the emergency ambulances being used properly, at least for one day. No doubt usual service will resume tomorrow and emergency ambulances will be responding on blue lights to some people with trivial or non existent ailments demanding that something is done because they can't be bothered to take responsibility for their own health or actions .[/p][/quote]fatmed,well done sir,someone with a thought for others and how their actions affect others,a decent human being who gets my thanks.co2

What we have today is the tail wagging the dog. Less than 50pct of the teaching unions membership were 'bovvered' to vote and so the left wing militants who would vote for a strike if a dog in a red coat told them to, got a majority of a minority of the total membership. If 75% plus of the membership had been bothered to vote and a majority had voted in favour then I think this strike would have had some credibility.

What we have today is the tail wagging the dog. Less than 50pct of the teaching unions membership were 'bovvered' to vote and so the left wing militants who would vote for a strike if a dog in a red coat told them to, got a majority of a minority of the total membership. If 75% plus of the membership had been bothered to vote and a majority had voted in favour then I think this strike would have had some credibility.Scoot

luckygirl wrote:
CO2 - I think you will find that the people on strike lose a days pay as well - many of whom probably can't afford to but all they are doing is fighting for what they believe is right.

Here is one for you,my wife is a pay clerk,responsible for getting peoples wages paid to them,if she went on strike for 2 months which meant you did not get paid would you support herr then?Think carefully because you are supporting teachers/hostpital staff who are affecting others.

[quote][p][bold]luckygirl[/bold] wrote:
CO2 - I think you will find that the people on strike lose a days pay as well - many of whom probably can't afford to but all they are doing is fighting for what they believe is right.[/p][/quote]Here is one for you,my wife is a pay clerk,responsible for getting peoples wages paid to them,if she went on strike for 2 months which meant you did not get paid would you support herr then?Think carefully because you are supporting teachers/hostpital staff who are affecting others.co2

Firstly I didn't say anything about supporting anyone in this strike - try reading posts properly before you comment. All I can say is your wife must work in a very old fashioned company if by not coming in for one day means that staff don't get paid that month. I think you will find that the payroll would be run a day early.

Firstly I didn't say anything about supporting anyone in this strike - try reading posts properly before you comment. All I can say is your wife must work in a very old fashioned company if by not coming in for one day means that staff don't get paid that month. I think you will find that the payroll would be run a day early.luckygirl

6079 Smith W wrote: What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.

I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported

I agree, he should have said NAZI labour union leaders eh..

[quote][p][bold]my brooklands[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote: What Nazi boy fails to appreciate, is that a pension is part of the overall remuneration. Employers should be contributing, whether private or public. Don't be fooled by fat cat propaganda, this should not be a race to the bottom.[/p][/quote]I find the manner in which you use the English language really offensive, you will be reported[/p][/quote]I agree, he should have said NAZI labour union leaders eh..My Jaywick

It was good to see this morning barleylands council depot workers were taking there strike protests
(as if the rest of there lives depended on it) by having a good kick about with a football. I bet they won't be having fun tomorrow when they have twice as much rubbish to pick up.

It was good to see this morning barleylands council depot workers were taking there strike protests
(as if the rest of there lives depended on it) by having a good kick about with a football. I bet they won't be having fun tomorrow when they have twice as much rubbish to pick up.billericay boy

Feisty CBC wrote:
I wish that cow in the flat beneath would put the heating on. OK she's on a pension but me toes are getting cold.

What planet do these public sector workers live on?
I'm sure that between 1% and 10% may not get the salaries and holidays that their collegues get so feel the need to. However, neither does the private sector. Teachers,Doctors,Civ
el servants have got it a lot easier than most of the rest of us so stop moaning you greedy bunch of easy train riders.

Look at your neighbour (the one that had a day off because the teachers want more money)
Yes they have had to take cuts so why, just because you work for a government that is on its knees financialy, not have to take a very very small cut to put in your bit to help future genarations.

This is not aimed at all public sector easy train riders as i know 1-10% maybe dont have it as good as us mere private sector workers think.

Whoever the dippy was that put Police,Fire and Doctors are the backbone of this country ive never heard such bull. (i suggest specsavers you short sighted tool)
They are a luxury that is all paid for after taxing the 4rse out of us private mortals.

You sad greedy lot sleep tight.

[quote][p][bold]Feisty CBC[/bold] wrote:
I wish that cow in the flat beneath would put the heating on. OK she's on a pension but me toes are getting cold.[/p][/quote]What planet do these public sector workers live on?
I'm sure that between 1% and 10% may not get the salaries and holidays that their collegues get so feel the need to. However, neither does the private sector. Teachers,Doctors,Civ
el servants have got it a lot easier than most of the rest of us so stop moaning you greedy bunch of easy train riders.
Look at your neighbour (the one that had a day off because the teachers want more money)
Yes they have had to take cuts so why, just because you work for a government that is on its knees financialy, not have to take a very very small cut to put in your bit to help future genarations.
This is not aimed at all public sector easy train riders as i know 1-10% maybe dont have it as good as us mere private sector workers think.
Whoever the dippy was that put Police,Fire and Doctors are the backbone of this country ive never heard such bull. (i suggest specsavers you short sighted tool)
They are a luxury that is all paid for after taxing the 4rse out of us private mortals.
You sad greedy lot sleep tight.beaulocks

You really are a nut case women. My late father fought for this country and was in a japanese war camp. He was proud to be british and fought for his country. Your nothing but a disrespectfull lump of gutter dog S-it . I would not p-ss on you if you was on fire. I would love to see you left wing lot sent out to the war zone and having to walk across the land with bombs planted in the ground.

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
That's not anti-German, just that Crazy's obviously obsessed with WW2![/p][/quote]You really are a nut case women. My late father fought for this country and was in a japanese war camp. He was proud to be british and fought for his country. Your nothing but a disrespectfull lump of gutter dog S-it . I would not p-ss on you if you was on fire. I would love to see you left wing lot sent out to the war zone and having to walk across the land with bombs planted in the ground.crazy comments

Feisty CBC wrote:
I wish that cow in the flat beneath would put the heating on. OK she's on a pension but me toes are getting cold.

What planet do these public sector workers live on?
I'm sure that between 1% and 10% may not get the salaries and holidays that their collegues get so feel the need to. However, neither does the private sector. Teachers,Doctors,Civ

el servants have got it a lot easier than most of the rest of us so stop moaning you greedy bunch of easy train riders.

Look at your neighbour (the one that had a day off because the teachers want more money)
Yes they have had to take cuts so why, just because you work for a government that is on its knees financialy, not have to take a very very small cut to put in your bit to help future genarations.

This is not aimed at all public sector easy train riders as i know 1-10% maybe dont have it as good as us mere private sector workers think.

Whoever the dippy was that put Police,Fire and Doctors are the backbone of this country ive never heard such bull. (i suggest specsavers you short sighted tool)
They are a luxury that is all paid for after taxing the 4rse out of us private mortals.

You sad greedy lot sleep tight.

Police, Fire and Doctors are a luxury !? Are you serious ?

[quote][p][bold]beaulocks[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Feisty CBC[/bold] wrote:
I wish that cow in the flat beneath would put the heating on. OK she's on a pension but me toes are getting cold.[/p][/quote]What planet do these public sector workers live on?
I'm sure that between 1% and 10% may not get the salaries and holidays that their collegues get so feel the need to. However, neither does the private sector. Teachers,Doctors,Civ
el servants have got it a lot easier than most of the rest of us so stop moaning you greedy bunch of easy train riders.
Look at your neighbour (the one that had a day off because the teachers want more money)
Yes they have had to take cuts so why, just because you work for a government that is on its knees financialy, not have to take a very very small cut to put in your bit to help future genarations.
This is not aimed at all public sector easy train riders as i know 1-10% maybe dont have it as good as us mere private sector workers think.
Whoever the dippy was that put Police,Fire and Doctors are the backbone of this country ive never heard such bull. (i suggest specsavers you short sighted tool)
They are a luxury that is all paid for after taxing the 4rse out of us private mortals.
You sad greedy lot sleep tight.[/p][/quote]Police, Fire and Doctors are a luxury !? Are you serious ?dinosaur1

Feisty CBC wrote:
I wish that cow in the flat beneath would put the heating on. OK she's on a pension but me toes are getting cold.

What planet do these public sector workers live on?
I'm sure that between 1% and 10% may not get the salaries and holidays that their collegues get so feel the need to. However, neither does the private sector. Teachers,Doctors,Civ

el servants have got it a lot easier than most of the rest of us so stop moaning you greedy bunch of easy train riders.

Look at your neighbour (the one that had a day off because the teachers want more money)
Yes they have had to take cuts so why, just because you work for a government that is on its knees financialy, not have to take a very very small cut to put in your bit to help future genarations.

This is not aimed at all public sector easy train riders as i know 1-10% maybe dont have it as good as us mere private sector workers think.

Whoever the dippy was that put Police,Fire and Doctors are the backbone of this country ive never heard such bull. (i suggest specsavers you short sighted tool)
They are a luxury that is all paid for after taxing the 4rse out of us private mortals.

You sad greedy lot sleep tight.

Police, fire and Doctors a luxury!? Are you serious ?

[quote][p][bold]beaulocks[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Feisty CBC[/bold] wrote:
I wish that cow in the flat beneath would put the heating on. OK she's on a pension but me toes are getting cold.[/p][/quote]What planet do these public sector workers live on?
I'm sure that between 1% and 10% may not get the salaries and holidays that their collegues get so feel the need to. However, neither does the private sector. Teachers,Doctors,Civ
el servants have got it a lot easier than most of the rest of us so stop moaning you greedy bunch of easy train riders.
Look at your neighbour (the one that had a day off because the teachers want more money)
Yes they have had to take cuts so why, just because you work for a government that is on its knees financialy, not have to take a very very small cut to put in your bit to help future genarations.
This is not aimed at all public sector easy train riders as i know 1-10% maybe dont have it as good as us mere private sector workers think.
Whoever the dippy was that put Police,Fire and Doctors are the backbone of this country ive never heard such bull. (i suggest specsavers you short sighted tool)
They are a luxury that is all paid for after taxing the 4rse out of us private mortals.
You sad greedy lot sleep tight.[/p][/quote]Police, fire and Doctors a luxury!? Are you serious ?dinosaur1

Perhaps us small business owners and the self-employed should go on strike about hi tax rates, vat taxes, corporation tax and every other tax that we are done for. No we can’t we just have to put up with it and it’s the government and public sector workers that make their living from us mugs. Pensions that’s the last thing we think about you lot get paid whatever you do. We don’t.

Perhaps us small business owners and the self-employed should go on strike about hi tax rates, vat taxes, corporation tax and every other tax that we are done for. No we can’t we just have to put up with it and it’s the government and public sector workers that make their living from us mugs. Pensions that’s the last thing we think about you lot get paid whatever you do. We don’t.billericay boy

billericay boy wrote:
Perhaps us small business owners and the self-employed should go on strike about hi tax rates, vat taxes, corporation tax and every other tax that we are done for. No we can’t we just have to put up with it and it’s the government and public sector workers that make their living from us mugs. Pensions that’s the last thing we think about you lot get paid whatever you do. We don’t.

It is wrong that small business owners are paying more tax just as it is wrong that the public sector are paying more tax and taking pay cuts and having their pension cut. The people that should pay are those responsible for the mess that the economy is in ... the bankers. The Government could also close the tax loopholes that the wealthy individuals and companies exploit so that they all pay their share. I agree with most of your comment but I don't agree with your comment that I and other public sector workers are making a living from you. I certainly don't consider I am taking money from mugs, as you put it. The public sector are not your enemy they are ordinary men and women providing a service; not to make profit but to provide a necessary and vital service. Is it too much to ask that they should also be properly paid and compensated and not made to pay for others irresponsible risks.?

[quote][p][bold]billericay boy[/bold] wrote:
Perhaps us small business owners and the self-employed should go on strike about hi tax rates, vat taxes, corporation tax and every other tax that we are done for. No we can’t we just have to put up with it and it’s the government and public sector workers that make their living from us mugs. Pensions that’s the last thing we think about you lot get paid whatever you do. We don’t.[/p][/quote]It is wrong that small business owners are paying more tax just as it is wrong that the public sector are paying more tax and taking pay cuts and having their pension cut. The people that should pay are those responsible for the mess that the economy is in ... the bankers. The Government could also close the tax loopholes that the wealthy individuals and companies exploit so that they all pay their share. I agree with most of your comment but I don't agree with your comment that I and other public sector workers are making a living from you. I certainly don't consider I am taking money from mugs, as you put it. The public sector are not your enemy they are ordinary men and women providing a service; not to make profit but to provide a necessary and vital service. Is it too much to ask that they should also be properly paid and compensated and not made to pay for others irresponsible risks.?dinosaur1

billericay boy wrote:
Perhaps us small business owners and the self-employed should go on strike about hi tax rates, vat taxes, corporation tax and every other tax that we are done for. No we can’t we just have to put up with it and it’s the government and public sector workers that make their living from us mugs. Pensions that’s the last thing we think about you lot get paid whatever you do. We don’t.

It is wrong that small business owners are paying more tax just as it is wrong that the public sector are paying more tax and taking pay cuts and having their pension cut. The people that should pay are those responsible for the mess that the economy is in ... the bankers. The Government could also close the tax loopholes that the wealthy individuals and companies exploit so that they all pay their share. I agree with most of your comment but I don't agree with your comment that I and other public sector workers are making a living from you. I certainly don't consider I am taking money from mugs, as you put it. The public sector are not your enemy they are ordinary men and women providing a service; not to make profit but to provide a necessary and vital service. Is it too much to ask that they should also be properly paid and compensated and not made to pay for others irresponsible risks.?

No, fair comment on what you say but I feel that the unions are pressurising the public sector workers in striking as not all sector workers want to strike and as you all pay into union funds that they are doing this to justify their pay. There is a time and a place to do this and now is not the time especially when everyone is struggling.

[quote][p][bold]dinosaur1[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]billericay boy[/bold] wrote:
Perhaps us small business owners and the self-employed should go on strike about hi tax rates, vat taxes, corporation tax and every other tax that we are done for. No we can’t we just have to put up with it and it’s the government and public sector workers that make their living from us mugs. Pensions that’s the last thing we think about you lot get paid whatever you do. We don’t.[/p][/quote]It is wrong that small business owners are paying more tax just as it is wrong that the public sector are paying more tax and taking pay cuts and having their pension cut. The people that should pay are those responsible for the mess that the economy is in ... the bankers. The Government could also close the tax loopholes that the wealthy individuals and companies exploit so that they all pay their share. I agree with most of your comment but I don't agree with your comment that I and other public sector workers are making a living from you. I certainly don't consider I am taking money from mugs, as you put it. The public sector are not your enemy they are ordinary men and women providing a service; not to make profit but to provide a necessary and vital service. Is it too much to ask that they should also be properly paid and compensated and not made to pay for others irresponsible risks.?[/p][/quote]No, fair comment on what you say but I feel that the unions are pressurising the public sector workers in striking as not all sector workers want to strike and as you all pay into union funds that they are doing this to justify their pay. There is a time and a place to do this and now is not the time especially when everyone is struggling.billericay boy

I dont know why everyone is worrying for . A couple of years time if not less then this country will be like Greece bankrupt and not one of us will be any better of but a whole lot worse. I really do hope it happens big time to teach these thick striking morons the further hardship we will have to go through. Its hard for everyone private or national industries at this moment in time and every one has to take a cut. THEY ARE DIGGING THEIR OWN GRAVES AND THE BIGGER THEY DIG THEM THE FURTHER THEY WILL FALL.

I dont know why everyone is worrying for . A couple of years time if not less then this country will be like Greece bankrupt and not one of us will be any better of but a whole lot worse. I really do hope it happens big time to teach these thick striking morons the further hardship we will have to go through. Its hard for everyone private or national industries at this moment in time and every one has to take a cut. THEY ARE DIGGING THEIR OWN GRAVES AND THE BIGGER THEY DIG THEM THE FURTHER THEY WILL FALL.crazy comments

The comments on this message board are a microcosm of the debate going on in the rest of the country. It has turned into a fight between the public sector and private sector. While all this goes on Cameron, Osborne and the other millionaire cabinet members continue to make deals with Vodafone et al to allow them to avoid paying their due tax. The Chancellor fails to properly close tax loopholes that allow his rich chums to secrete their money in cosy offshore accounts to avoid paying their due tax. At the same time the people and institutions that got us all into this mess in the first place continue to rake in their pay rises and bonuses while the ordinary people in the country, whether they are in the public or private sector are made to pay for it all. The public sector workers are not the enemy of the private sector they are normal men and women that provide services to make the community that we live in safe, healthy and clean. They are asking for their employer (the Government) to honour the terms and conditions of their employment and not be made to pay for the reckless risks made by others.

The comments on this message board are a microcosm of the debate going on in the rest of the country. It has turned into a fight between the public sector and private sector. While all this goes on Cameron, Osborne and the other millionaire cabinet members continue to make deals with Vodafone et al to allow them to avoid paying their due tax. The Chancellor fails to properly close tax loopholes that allow his rich chums to secrete their money in cosy offshore accounts to avoid paying their due tax. At the same time the people and institutions that got us all into this mess in the first place continue to rake in their pay rises and bonuses while the ordinary people in the country, whether they are in the public or private sector are made to pay for it all. The public sector workers are not the enemy of the private sector they are normal men and women that provide services to make the community that we live in safe, healthy and clean. They are asking for their employer (the Government) to honour the terms and conditions of their employment and not be made to pay for the reckless risks made by others.dinosaur1

We are all paying for this mess. There should be no exceptions, the wealthy or people who work in public services.
This is why a public sector strike over pensions would not be successful. To influence government you need to influence public opinion. When most people are being spanked they don't really appreciate seeing others being treated specially.

We are all paying for this mess. There should be no exceptions, the wealthy or people who work in public services.
This is why a public sector strike over pensions would not be successful. To influence government you need to influence public opinion. When most people are being spanked they don't really appreciate seeing others being treated specially.RobWalker

Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs.
Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.

Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs.
Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.EthanEdwards

Well if they do reduce the public service workforce by a further 700,000, you can look forward to paying their unemployment benefits, Housing benefit, optitions/dental charges, council tax, training needs/courses.......
................

Well if they do reduce the public service workforce by a further 700,000, you can look forward to paying their unemployment benefits, Housing benefit, optitions/dental charges, council tax, training needs/courses.......
................pamen7

John the resonator wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.

Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.

As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.

Oh John!
As said:-
&quot;You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.

I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.

You are making no sense whatsoever, and are in serious danger of condoning some very nasty and dangerous views. If you are aware of Henderson et al, than you would know that they use language and terms that would embarrass the BNP. Few neo-Nazis, such as the BNP, would today use words like 'negro', or obsess over scientific racism, it tends to be more cultural. Not Henderson, or the other groups he is associated with, who talk and think in a manner well to the right of the BNP. So how the hell is somebody well to the right of the British Nazi Party not a Nazi?!
I think your ridiculous ignorance actually indicates what others in the north of the county have said before, we get a much better class of contributor up here. When that piece of filth from Billericay chose to spread his filth up here and moan about the fact we had a Malaysian Mayor, both the local Lib-Dem town hall leader and a certain Tory small businessman approved me describing Nazi boy as something excreted from a Rottweiler's anus. It remains a very apt description for this filthy low life.

[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.
Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.
As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.[/p][/quote]Oh John!
As said:-
"You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.[/p][/quote]I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.[/p][/quote]You are making no sense whatsoever, and are in serious danger of condoning some very nasty and dangerous views. If you are aware of Henderson et al, than you would know that they use language and terms that would embarrass the BNP. Few neo-Nazis, such as the BNP, would today use words like 'negro', or obsess over scientific racism, it tends to be more cultural. Not Henderson, or the other groups he is associated with, who talk and think in a manner well to the right of the BNP. So how the hell is somebody well to the right of the British Nazi Party not a Nazi?!
I think your ridiculous ignorance actually indicates what others in the north of the county have said before, we get a much better class of contributor up here. When that piece of filth from Billericay chose to spread his filth up here and moan about the fact we had a Malaysian Mayor, both the local Lib-Dem town hall leader and a certain Tory small businessman approved me describing Nazi boy as something excreted from a Rottweiler's anus. It remains a very apt description for this filthy low life.6079 Smith W

You really are a nut case women. My late father fought for this country and was in a japanese war camp. He was proud to be british and fought for his country. Your nothing but a disrespectfull lump of gutter dog S-it . I would not p-ss on you if you was on fire. I would love to see you left wing lot sent out to the war zone and having to walk across the land with bombs planted in the ground.

I sometimes think that nobody could really be as stupid as you and that you must be a parody. There is something bizarrely entertaining about you!

[quote][p][bold]crazy comments[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
That's not anti-German, just that Crazy's obviously obsessed with WW2![/p][/quote]You really are a nut case women. My late father fought for this country and was in a japanese war camp. He was proud to be british and fought for his country. Your nothing but a disrespectfull lump of gutter dog S-it . I would not p-ss on you if you was on fire. I would love to see you left wing lot sent out to the war zone and having to walk across the land with bombs planted in the ground.[/p][/quote]I sometimes think that nobody could really be as stupid as you and that you must be a parody. There is something bizarrely entertaining about you!6079 Smith W

John the resonator wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.

Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.

As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.

Oh John!
As said:-
&quot;You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.

I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.

You are making no sense whatsoever, and are in serious danger of condoning some very nasty and dangerous views. If you are aware of Henderson et al, than you would know that they use language and terms that would embarrass the BNP. Few neo-Nazis, such as the BNP, would today use words like 'negro', or obsess over scientific racism, it tends to be more cultural. Not Henderson, or the other groups he is associated with, who talk and think in a manner well to the right of the BNP. So how the hell is somebody well to the right of the British Nazi Party not a Nazi?!
I think your ridiculous ignorance actually indicates what others in the north of the county have said before, we get a much better class of contributor up here. When that piece of filth from Billericay chose to spread his filth up here and moan about the fact we had a Malaysian Mayor, both the local Lib-Dem town hall leader and a certain Tory small businessman approved me describing Nazi boy as something excreted from a Rottweiler's anus. It remains a very apt description for this filthy low life.

I have agreed with some of your views in the past but you are seriously losing the plot with these rants and your choice of language. I'm done with communicating with you. You are entitled to your view of my so called 'ridiculous ignorance.' Probably some of my adversaries on here would not even agree with you.

Write anything you like in reply, it's over and out from me.

[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.
Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.
As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.[/p][/quote]Oh John!
As said:-
"You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.[/p][/quote]I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.[/p][/quote]You are making no sense whatsoever, and are in serious danger of condoning some very nasty and dangerous views. If you are aware of Henderson et al, than you would know that they use language and terms that would embarrass the BNP. Few neo-Nazis, such as the BNP, would today use words like 'negro', or obsess over scientific racism, it tends to be more cultural. Not Henderson, or the other groups he is associated with, who talk and think in a manner well to the right of the BNP. So how the hell is somebody well to the right of the British Nazi Party not a Nazi?!
I think your ridiculous ignorance actually indicates what others in the north of the county have said before, we get a much better class of contributor up here. When that piece of filth from Billericay chose to spread his filth up here and moan about the fact we had a Malaysian Mayor, both the local Lib-Dem town hall leader and a certain Tory small businessman approved me describing Nazi boy as something excreted from a Rottweiler's anus. It remains a very apt description for this filthy low life.[/p][/quote]I have agreed with some of your views in the past but you are seriously losing the plot with these rants and your choice of language. I'm done with communicating with you. You are entitled to your view of my so called 'ridiculous ignorance.' Probably some of my adversaries on here would not even agree with you.
Write anything you like in reply, it's over and out from me.John the resonator

John the resonator wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.

Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.

As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.

Oh John!
As said:-
&quot;You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.

I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.

You are making no sense whatsoever, and are in serious danger of condoning some very nasty and dangerous views. If you are aware of Henderson et al, than you would know that they use language and terms that would embarrass the BNP. Few neo-Nazis, such as the BNP, would today use words like 'negro', or obsess over scientific racism, it tends to be more cultural. Not Henderson, or the other groups he is associated with, who talk and think in a manner well to the right of the BNP. So how the hell is somebody well to the right of the British Nazi Party not a Nazi?!
I think your ridiculous ignorance actually indicates what others in the north of the county have said before, we get a much better class of contributor up here. When that piece of filth from Billericay chose to spread his filth up here and moan about the fact we had a Malaysian Mayor, both the local Lib-Dem town hall leader and a certain Tory small businessman approved me describing Nazi boy as something excreted from a Rottweiler's anus. It remains a very apt description for this filthy low life.

I have agreed with some of your views in the past but you are seriously losing the plot with these rants and your choice of language. I'm done with communicating with you. You are entitled to your view of my so called 'ridiculous ignorance.' Probably some of my adversaries on here would not even agree with you.

Write anything you like in reply, it's over and out from me.

You really haven't got a clue. I'll use whatever language I like when dealing with a Robert Henderson citing Nazi.

[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]6079 Smith W[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]John the resonator[/bold] wrote:
This talk of nazis is getting out of hand and I cannot see the relevance. In the same way anyone a bit left of centre often gets called a commie or anarchist.
Naturally a strike such as this will be very divisive but I can't see why people can't debate without this labelling. The House of Commons is hardly the pinnacle of well-mannered debate but you don't even hear that sort of talk there.
As for my opinion on the issue, I am in favour of the strikers on this one, many will disagree with me, fair enough, doesn't make me a commie or them fascists.[/p][/quote]Oh John!
As said:-
"You need to check out Robert Henderson, Steadfast, American Renaissance, The New Century Foundation, and The Pioneer Fund."
They are, just a bit, scary.
Now, take us forward to something more relevant, instead of looking like you're defending this bunch of miscreants.[/p][/quote]I do know about Henderson et al. and find them repulsive. You might not find my post relevant, fair enough but I think you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you invoked the nazi analogy. Why would anyone want to engage in a sensible discussion once that card has been dealt? It is hard to get someone to withdraw such an accusation so the only resort is either to ignore it or answer in kind with equally as offensive statements. Not exactly a triumph for reasonable debate.[/p][/quote]You are making no sense whatsoever, and are in serious danger of condoning some very nasty and dangerous views. If you are aware of Henderson et al, than you would know that they use language and terms that would embarrass the BNP. Few neo-Nazis, such as the BNP, would today use words like 'negro', or obsess over scientific racism, it tends to be more cultural. Not Henderson, or the other groups he is associated with, who talk and think in a manner well to the right of the BNP. So how the hell is somebody well to the right of the British Nazi Party not a Nazi?!
I think your ridiculous ignorance actually indicates what others in the north of the county have said before, we get a much better class of contributor up here. When that piece of filth from Billericay chose to spread his filth up here and moan about the fact we had a Malaysian Mayor, both the local Lib-Dem town hall leader and a certain Tory small businessman approved me describing Nazi boy as something excreted from a Rottweiler's anus. It remains a very apt description for this filthy low life.[/p][/quote]I have agreed with some of your views in the past but you are seriously losing the plot with these rants and your choice of language. I'm done with communicating with you. You are entitled to your view of my so called 'ridiculous ignorance.' Probably some of my adversaries on here would not even agree with you.
Write anything you like in reply, it's over and out from me.[/p][/quote]You really haven't got a clue. I'll use whatever language I like when dealing with a Robert Henderson citing Nazi.6079 Smith W

EthanEdwards wrote:
Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.

OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.[/p][/quote]OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.crum

EthanEdwards wrote: Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.

OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.

Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job?

We just don't need all the non-jobs anymore. Fire the lot!

[quote][p][bold]crum[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote: Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.[/p][/quote]OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.[/p][/quote]Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job?
We just don't need all the non-jobs anymore. Fire the lot!EthanEdwards

EthanEdwards wrote: Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.

OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.

Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job?

We just don't need all the non-jobs anymore. Fire the lot!

You and your ilk really are of low intelligence aren't you?

If you lay people off as you suggest that increases the burden on the benefits system.

This means that you pay more of your income to people who cannot find work in the form of taxes - the more people who are not working, the more we all have to pay in tax to support them.

Meanwhile "call me Dave" is having a laugh at morons like you doing his dirty work for him by railing against your fellow worker (one assumes you do have a job?) in order to further reinforce the class divides that exist in the UK.

But hey, you satisfy your misplaced envy and get some more "scroungers" who take your taxes in the form of JSA to complain about.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]crum[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote: Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.[/p][/quote]OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.[/p][/quote]Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job?
We just don't need all the non-jobs anymore. Fire the lot![/p][/quote]You and your ilk really are of low intelligence aren't you?
If you lay people off as you suggest that increases the burden on the benefits system.
This means that you pay more of your income to people who cannot find work in the form of taxes - the more people who are not working, the more we all have to pay in tax to support them.
Meanwhile "call me Dave" is having a laugh at morons like you doing his dirty work for him by railing against your fellow worker (one assumes you do have a job?) in order to further reinforce the class divides that exist in the UK.
But hey, you satisfy your misplaced envy and get some more "scroungers" who take your taxes in the form of JSA to complain about.ravenmorpheus

moxia19 wrote:
Check the pictures the hermes online shop has posted to see if the photos of hermes sale match the color of hermes handbags you want.

Like it! Thanks for the lighter moment.

[quote][p][bold]moxia19[/bold] wrote:
Check the pictures the hermes online shop has posted to see if the photos of hermes sale match the color of hermes handbags you want.[/p][/quote]Like it! Thanks for the lighter moment.John the resonator

dea Ravenm....
'my Ilk' have a question. Isn't it considered rather rude to burst into a conversation and the first thing you do is start calling people you haven't met Morons?

Second question- Public sector Non Job holders on 40K + a year + pension. Do they get less then JSA claimants? suggest you check your maths. If as your suggesting that is the case perhaps some case for even more cuts. Stay lucky.

dea Ravenm....
'my Ilk' have a question. Isn't it considered rather rude to burst into a conversation and the first thing you do is start calling people you haven't met Morons?
Second question- Public sector Non Job holders on 40K + a year + pension. Do they get less then JSA claimants? suggest you check your maths. If as your suggesting that is the case perhaps some case for even more cuts. Stay lucky.EthanEdwards

The cost of public sector workers has increased from 11.5% to 12.4% of total national income from 1997 to 2006.

Why? Thats a huge amount of cash.

13% more workers 5.1 million to 5.8 million. So according to you every one of those extra 900,000 is completely utterly vital. So prove it.

You only have to see jobs section of the Grauniad to see thats a complete load of cods.

And 76% of public sector workers are on final salary pensions compared with 17% of private. The final salary pension is a thing of the past out here in reality land. Why's that? Because they are utterly unaffordable thats why.

Unless of course you have a bunch of suckers picking up the bill.

Thats where us taxpayers come in isn't it.

These are the FACTS from the Institute of Fiscal Studies. But I suppose that you'll just think they are another bunch of...what was it you said? Oh yes Morons. Then you went into a typical left wing rant about class warfare didn't you.

Well I'm really not interested in your old fashioned views about class thank you very much.

I happen to detest Cameron more than you ever could but for totally different reasons.

I have to get back to work now to keep you lot in your opulent lifestyle.

Up the workers! Right up.

For Ravenm... and Crum.
Data from the 'morons' in the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
www.ifs.org.uk/budge
ts/gb2008/pay.ppt
Some key facts.
The cost of public sector workers has increased from 11.5% to 12.4% of total national income from 1997 to 2006.
Why? Thats a huge amount of cash.
13% more workers 5.1 million to 5.8 million. So according to you every one of those extra 900,000 is completely utterly vital. So prove it.
You only have to see jobs section of the Grauniad to see thats a complete load of cods.
And 76% of public sector workers are on final salary pensions compared with 17% of private. The final salary pension is a thing of the past out here in reality land. Why's that? Because they are utterly unaffordable thats why.
Unless of course you have a bunch of suckers picking up the bill.
Thats where us taxpayers come in isn't it.
These are the FACTS from the Institute of Fiscal Studies. But I suppose that you'll just think they are another bunch of...what was it you said? Oh yes Morons. Then you went into a typical left wing rant about class warfare didn't you.
Well I'm really not interested in your old fashioned views about class thank you very much.
I happen to detest Cameron more than you ever could but for totally different reasons.
I have to get back to work now to keep you lot in your opulent lifestyle.
Up the workers! Right up.EthanEdwards

EthanEdwards wrote:
dea Ravenm....
'my Ilk' have a question. Isn't it considered rather rude to burst into a conversation and the first thing you do is start calling people you haven't met Morons?

Second question- Public sector Non Job holders on 40K + a year + pension. Do they get less then JSA claimants? suggest you check your maths. If as your suggesting that is the case perhaps some case for even more cuts. Stay lucky.

I suggest you check your facts before commenting. As well as your grammar. Normally I wouldn't bother replying to someone who cannot construct a coherent properly punctuated and grammatically correct sentence but I'll make an exception in your case.

The majority of public sector workers, those whom you wish to sack do not earn £40k+ pa, and when you take into account all the benefits those whom you wish to fire will receive when they are unemployed - housing benefit because they will be forced into social housing or forced to rent privately because their homes are repossessed, council tax benefit, child benefits if they have children, free NHS prescriptions if they need them, and many other benefits that can be received, they will in fact cost us, that's the taxpayers, and that includes the public sector workers, but probably not yourself as you seem to be the envious unemployed type, even more than they would if we keep them employed in their so called "non-jobs".

The maths really isn't that difficult. But then you clearly only think in simple terms - "dey unemployed, dur dey only get JSA, don't dey".

As I said - you and you're ilk...

In answer to your first question it's very clear from reading your comments thus far that you are simply trotting out the tabloid misinformation that is banded about - thus I can easily deduce you are a moron, because only morons think the way that you display you are thinking. I don't need to meet you to know that.

Oh BTW don't talk to me about being rude, that's a case of the pot and the kettle mate considering how rude you were being to the person you were replying to previously.

If you wish to have people's lives ruined through sheer envy and greed then direct your anger at those who are actually responsible for the mess this country is in - the politicians who decade after decade have overspent and wasted our taxes by sending foreign aid packages out to countries like India (a country that has a space programme but keeps the majority of their people in poverty), are paying the EU millions per day for very little return, keep awarding themselves generous pay increases and fiddling expenses whilst telling us we must all tighten our belts, and have allowed us to get into a state where we've sold off almost every last bit of this country to foreign nationals, and run down an economy that could have seen us all living in reasonable wealth.

These are the people you should be asking to be fired - not the run of the mill public sector workers you so clearly hate.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
dea Ravenm....
'my Ilk' have a question. Isn't it considered rather rude to burst into a conversation and the first thing you do is start calling people you haven't met Morons?
Second question- Public sector Non Job holders on 40K + a year + pension. Do they get less then JSA claimants? suggest you check your maths. If as your suggesting that is the case perhaps some case for even more cuts. Stay lucky.[/p][/quote]I suggest you check your facts before commenting. As well as your grammar. Normally I wouldn't bother replying to someone who cannot construct a coherent properly punctuated and grammatically correct sentence but I'll make an exception in your case.
The majority of public sector workers, those whom you wish to sack do not earn £40k+ pa, and when you take into account all the benefits those whom you wish to fire will receive when they are unemployed - housing benefit because they will be forced into social housing or forced to rent privately because their homes are repossessed, council tax benefit, child benefits if they have children, free NHS prescriptions if they need them, and many other benefits that can be received, they will in fact cost us, that's the taxpayers, and that includes the public sector workers, but probably not yourself as you seem to be the envious unemployed type, even more than they would if we keep them employed in their so called "non-jobs".
The maths really isn't that difficult. But then you clearly only think in simple terms - "dey unemployed, dur dey only get JSA, don't dey".
As I said - you and you're ilk...
In answer to your first question it's very clear from reading your comments thus far that you are simply trotting out the tabloid misinformation that is banded about - thus I can easily deduce you are a moron, because only morons think the way that you display you are thinking. I don't need to meet you to know that.
Oh BTW don't talk to me about being rude, that's a case of the pot and the kettle mate considering how rude you were being to the person you were replying to previously.
If you wish to have people's lives ruined through sheer envy and greed then direct your anger at those who are actually responsible for the mess this country is in - the politicians who decade after decade have overspent and wasted our taxes by sending foreign aid packages out to countries like India (a country that has a space programme but keeps the majority of their people in poverty), are paying the EU millions per day for very little return, keep awarding themselves generous pay increases and fiddling expenses whilst telling us we must all tighten our belts, and have allowed us to get into a state where we've sold off almost every last bit of this country to foreign nationals, and run down an economy that could have seen us all living in reasonable wealth.
These are the people you should be asking to be fired - not the run of the mill public sector workers you so clearly hate.ravenmorpheus

Neatly sidestepped the FACTS i posted from the Institute of Financial studies then....more of your Morons I suppose.

So you have no answers...just more rudeness but very grammatical.
I mean calling people morons and going into a left wing class warfare rant. You'll be banging on about 'Fatch' next.

Sterotypical Fred Kite.

Neatly sidestepped the FACTS i posted from the Institute of Financial studies then....more of your Morons I suppose.
So you have no answers...just more rudeness but very grammatical.
I mean calling people morons and going into a left wing class warfare rant. You'll be banging on about 'Fatch' next.
Sterotypical Fred Kite.EthanEdwards

The cost of public sector workers has increased from 11.5% to 12.4% of total national income from 1997 to 2006.

Why? Thats a huge amount of cash.

13% more workers 5.1 million to 5.8 million. So according to you every one of those extra 900,000 is completely utterly vital. So prove it.

You only have to see jobs section of the Grauniad to see thats a complete load of cods.

And 76% of public sector workers are on final salary pensions compared with 17% of private. The final salary pension is a thing of the past out here in reality land. Why's that? Because they are utterly unaffordable thats why.

Unless of course you have a bunch of suckers picking up the bill.

Thats where us taxpayers come in isn't it.

These are the FACTS from the Institute of Fiscal Studies. But I suppose that you'll just think they are another bunch of...what was it you said? Oh yes Morons. Then you went into a typical left wing rant about class warfare didn't you.

Well I'm really not interested in your old fashioned views about class thank you very much.

I happen to detest Cameron more than you ever could but for totally different reasons.

I have to get back to work now to keep you lot in your opulent lifestyle.

Up the workers! Right up.

Yeah it's funny how you fail to mention this -

+28% in the NHS.
+24% in education.
+20% in the police.

If they are not vital then please do explain?

What is it? As a private sector worker you don't get so no-one else should?

Like I said. Moron.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
For Ravenm... and Crum.
Data from the 'morons' in the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
www.ifs.org.uk/budge
ts/gb2008/pay.ppt
Some key facts.
The cost of public sector workers has increased from 11.5% to 12.4% of total national income from 1997 to 2006.
Why? Thats a huge amount of cash.
13% more workers 5.1 million to 5.8 million. So according to you every one of those extra 900,000 is completely utterly vital. So prove it.
You only have to see jobs section of the Grauniad to see thats a complete load of cods.
And 76% of public sector workers are on final salary pensions compared with 17% of private. The final salary pension is a thing of the past out here in reality land. Why's that? Because they are utterly unaffordable thats why.
Unless of course you have a bunch of suckers picking up the bill.
Thats where us taxpayers come in isn't it.
These are the FACTS from the Institute of Fiscal Studies. But I suppose that you'll just think they are another bunch of...what was it you said? Oh yes Morons. Then you went into a typical left wing rant about class warfare didn't you.
Well I'm really not interested in your old fashioned views about class thank you very much.
I happen to detest Cameron more than you ever could but for totally different reasons.
I have to get back to work now to keep you lot in your opulent lifestyle.
Up the workers! Right up.[/p][/quote]Yeah it's funny how you fail to mention this -
+28% in the NHS.
+24% in education.
+20% in the police.
If they are not vital then please do explain?
What is it? As a private sector worker you don't get so no-one else should?
Like I said. Moron.ravenmorpheus

EthanEdwards wrote:
Neatly sidestepped the FACTS i posted from the Institute of Financial studies then....more of your Morons I suppose.

So you have no answers...just more rudeness but very grammatical.
I mean calling people morons and going into a left wing class warfare rant. You'll be banging on about 'Fatch' next.

Sterotypical Fred Kite.

No mate I didn't. See above. You hadn't posted those so "facts", twisted to suit your own agenda, until I had finished typing my comment.

Sorry but I have no clue what "Fatch" is, nor do I know who Fred Kite is.

But I don know a moronic individual who can't think outside the box and see the wider implications of calling for public sector workers to be fired.

Perhaps your attitude would be different were the shoe on the other foot. Hmm.

Yeah, good afternoon mate, enjoy your sour grapes and envy pie.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
Neatly sidestepped the FACTS i posted from the Institute of Financial studies then....more of your Morons I suppose.
So you have no answers...just more rudeness but very grammatical.
I mean calling people morons and going into a left wing class warfare rant. You'll be banging on about 'Fatch' next.
Sterotypical Fred Kite.[/p][/quote]No mate I didn't. See above. You hadn't posted those so "facts", twisted to suit your own agenda, until I had finished typing my comment.
Sorry but I have no clue what "Fatch" is, nor do I know who Fred Kite is.
But I don know a moronic individual who can't think outside the box and see the wider implications of calling for public sector workers to be fired.
Perhaps your attitude would be different were the shoe on the other foot. Hmm.
Yeah, good afternoon mate, enjoy your sour grapes and envy pie.ravenmorpheus

EthanEdwards wrote: For Ravenm... and Crum. Data from the 'morons' in the Institute for Fiscal Studies. www.ifs.org.uk/budge ts/gb2008/pay.ppt Some key facts. The cost of public sector workers has increased from 11.5% to 12.4% of total national income from 1997 to 2006. Why? Thats a huge amount of cash. 13% more workers 5.1 million to 5.8 million. So according to you every one of those extra 900,000 is completely utterly vital. So prove it. You only have to see jobs section of the Grauniad to see thats a complete load of cods. And 76% of public sector workers are on final salary pensions compared with 17% of private. The final salary pension is a thing of the past out here in reality land. Why's that? Because they are utterly unaffordable thats why. Unless of course you have a bunch of suckers picking up the bill. Thats where us taxpayers come in isn't it. These are the FACTS from the Institute of Fiscal Studies. But I suppose that you'll just think they are another bunch of...what was it you said? Oh yes Morons. Then you went into a typical left wing rant about class warfare didn't you. Well I'm really not interested in your old fashioned views about class thank you very much. I happen to detest Cameron more than you ever could but for totally different reasons. I have to get back to work now to keep you lot in your opulent lifestyle. Up the workers! Right up.

Yeah it's funny how you fail to mention this - +28% in the NHS. +24% in education. +20% in the police. If they are not vital then please do explain? What is it? As a private sector worker you don't get so no-one else should? Like I said. Moron.

No I didn't ignore those categories and that was because they are too broad brush. NHS okay but that does NOT mean front line medical. Ditto the other two. In fact there are more Managers int he NHS than beds. Every one of these highly paid people is vital then? I doubt that very much. so where is YOUR evidence to the contrary? Your Facts?

Your so quick to brand everyone a Moron that it can only be some inferiority on your part causing you to 'over compensate'. Feeling inadequate? Never mind.

[quote][p][bold]ravenmorpheus[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote: For Ravenm... and Crum. Data from the 'morons' in the Institute for Fiscal Studies. www.ifs.org.uk/budge ts/gb2008/pay.ppt Some key facts. The cost of public sector workers has increased from 11.5% to 12.4% of total national income from 1997 to 2006. Why? Thats a huge amount of cash. 13% more workers 5.1 million to 5.8 million. So according to you every one of those extra 900,000 is completely utterly vital. So prove it. You only have to see jobs section of the Grauniad to see thats a complete load of cods. And 76% of public sector workers are on final salary pensions compared with 17% of private. The final salary pension is a thing of the past out here in reality land. Why's that? Because they are utterly unaffordable thats why. Unless of course you have a bunch of suckers picking up the bill. Thats where us taxpayers come in isn't it. These are the FACTS from the Institute of Fiscal Studies. But I suppose that you'll just think they are another bunch of...what was it you said? Oh yes Morons. Then you went into a typical left wing rant about class warfare didn't you. Well I'm really not interested in your old fashioned views about class thank you very much. I happen to detest Cameron more than you ever could but for totally different reasons. I have to get back to work now to keep you lot in your opulent lifestyle. Up the workers! Right up.[/p][/quote]Yeah it's funny how you fail to mention this - +28% in the NHS. +24% in education. +20% in the police. If they are not vital then please do explain? What is it? As a private sector worker you don't get so no-one else should? Like I said. Moron.[/p][/quote]No I didn't ignore those categories and that was because they are too broad brush. NHS okay but that does NOT mean front line medical. Ditto the other two. In fact there are more Managers int he NHS than beds. Every one of these highly paid people is vital then? I doubt that very much. so where is YOUR evidence to the contrary? Your Facts?
Your so quick to brand everyone a Moron that it can only be some inferiority on your part causing you to 'over compensate'. Feeling inadequate? Never mind.EthanEdwards

EthanEdwards wrote: Neatly sidestepped the FACTS i posted from the Institute of Financial studies then....more of your Morons I suppose. So you have no answers...just more rudeness but very grammatical. I mean calling people morons and going into a left wing class warfare rant. You'll be banging on about 'Fatch' next. Sterotypical Fred Kite.

No mate I didn't. See above. You hadn't posted those so &quot;facts", twisted to suit your own agenda, until I had finished typing my comment. Sorry but I have no clue what "Fatch" is, nor do I know who Fred Kite is. But I don know a moronic individual who can't think outside the box and see the wider implications of calling for public sector workers to be fired. Perhaps your attitude would be different were the shoe on the other foot. Hmm. Yeah, good afternoon mate, enjoy your sour grapes and envy pie.

Well if you have no clue perhaps you should try Google. again you claim ignorance yet brand people who do know Morons. How very odd.

Yes I shall enjoy the fruits of my labours. You go enjoy the fruits of the money taken from the Minimum waged working poor. Though in your position I would find it rather difficult to stomach.

[quote][p][bold]ravenmorpheus[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote: Neatly sidestepped the FACTS i posted from the Institute of Financial studies then....more of your Morons I suppose. So you have no answers...just more rudeness but very grammatical. I mean calling people morons and going into a left wing class warfare rant. You'll be banging on about 'Fatch' next. Sterotypical Fred Kite.[/p][/quote]No mate I didn't. See above. You hadn't posted those so "facts", twisted to suit your own agenda, until I had finished typing my comment. Sorry but I have no clue what "Fatch" is, nor do I know who Fred Kite is. But I don know a moronic individual who can't think outside the box and see the wider implications of calling for public sector workers to be fired. Perhaps your attitude would be different were the shoe on the other foot. Hmm. Yeah, good afternoon mate, enjoy your sour grapes and envy pie.[/p][/quote]Well if you have no clue perhaps you should try Google. again you claim ignorance yet brand people who do know Morons. How very odd.
Yes I shall enjoy the fruits of my labours. You go enjoy the fruits of the money taken from the Minimum waged working poor. Though in your position I would find it rather difficult to stomach.EthanEdwards

Your not very good at this are you? You like to be the dominant person in a "conversation" berating anyone who dares to make a point.

And when someone challenges your point you start slinging insults and then complain when people do it to you.

Funny that.

Oh and I don't need to try Google for something that was a completely pointless and worthless comment aimed at insulting me.

You have as many facts as I do about who those extra 28% are in the NHS (or any of the "extras" in the other sectors), so don't sit there and think you have the high ground because you don't.

All you've done is read a report and jumped on a tabloid bandwagon without actually understanding the report and considering the wider implications of what you are demanding.

You are calling for public sector workers to be sacked because you would rather attack an easy target than sort out the mess that you and your ilk have left yourselves in - with little to no pensions, increasingly squeezed pay packets etc.

You have yourselves to blame for that, you failed to stand up whilst businesses were reducing your pay packets.

You, not the public sector workers.

And yet you berate the public sector for doing what you haven't got the balls to do yourself.

----

"Yes I shall enjoy the fruits of my labours. You go enjoy the fruits of the money taken from the Minimum waged working poor. Though in your position I would find it rather difficult to stomach."

===

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to imply with that comment but I believe you should try again.

I am employed just as you claim you are. So I take nothing from the minimum waged working poor, and I am in fact one of those people so I would be taking from myself.

As I said you are incapable of seeing the wider picture.

Your not very good at this are you? You like to be the dominant person in a "conversation" berating anyone who dares to make a point.
And when someone challenges your point you start slinging insults and then complain when people do it to you.
Funny that.
Oh and I don't need to try Google for something that was a completely pointless and worthless comment aimed at insulting me.
You have as many facts as I do about who those extra 28% are in the NHS (or any of the "extras" in the other sectors), so don't sit there and think you have the high ground because you don't.
All you've done is read a report and jumped on a tabloid bandwagon without actually understanding the report and considering the wider implications of what you are demanding.
You are calling for public sector workers to be sacked because you would rather attack an easy target than sort out the mess that you and your ilk have left yourselves in - with little to no pensions, increasingly squeezed pay packets etc.
You have yourselves to blame for that, you failed to stand up whilst businesses were reducing your pay packets.
You, not the public sector workers.
And yet you berate the public sector for doing what you haven't got the balls to do yourself.
----
"Yes I shall enjoy the fruits of my labours. You go enjoy the fruits of the money taken from the Minimum waged working poor. Though in your position I would find it rather difficult to stomach."
===
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to imply with that comment but I believe you should try again.
I am employed just as you claim you are. So I take nothing from the minimum waged working poor, and I am in fact one of those people so I would be taking from myself.
As I said you are incapable of seeing the wider picture.ravenmorpheus

Well thats more polite. Now you've toned down most of the ad-hominems.

How is the Banking mess anything to do with my vast cadre of Ilk's then?
Since I don't work in Banking or Politics. Nor have I over borrowed and I own my own home outright. So love to hear that one of how my Ilk and myself did that..

However.

Clearly explain why should the working poor subsidise the Public sector gold plated pensions then.

So go on then if your so smart..defend the indefensible.

In your own words begin....

Well thats more polite. Now you've toned down most of the ad-hominems.
How is the Banking mess anything to do with my vast cadre of Ilk's then?
Since I don't work in Banking or Politics. Nor have I over borrowed and I own my own home outright. So love to hear that one of how my Ilk and myself did that..
However.
Clearly explain why should the working poor subsidise the Public sector gold plated pensions then.
So go on then if your so smart..defend the indefensible.
In your own words begin....EthanEdwards

EthanEdwards wrote: Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.

OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.

Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job? We just don't need all the non-jobs anymore. Fire the lot!

No, I am not an outreach worker!

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]crum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote: Well that was no problem. If anything it proves how overmanned the state sector is, time for lots of layoffs. Maybe the world won't end if we don't have any Climate Change Officers, Five a day co-ordinators and other non jobs.[/p][/quote]OK we are overmanned, why have I worked 42 hours this week? My contract is for 37 hours I have worked 42 hours with tomorrow to go!!!!!! NO I do not get pay for the time I put in for free - Overmanned - you TW** speak to the workers that you are intent on having digs at.[/p][/quote]Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job? We just don't need all the non-jobs anymore. Fire the lot![/p][/quote]No, I am not an outreach worker!crum

EthanEdwards wrote:
Well thats more polite. Now you've toned down most of the ad-hominems.

How is the Banking mess anything to do with my vast cadre of Ilk's then?
Since I don't work in Banking or Politics. Nor have I over borrowed and I own my own home outright. So love to hear that one of how my Ilk and myself did that..

However.

Clearly explain why should the working poor subsidise the Public sector gold plated pensions then.

So go on then if your so smart..defend the indefensible.

In your own words begin....

Defend the indefensible.

Your view that the public sector pensions are gold plated is utter crap, you are merely trotting out the media led misinformation, and you have the cheek to ask me to put things "in my own words". They are no more gold plated than you pension is, especially as the government seem to be moving the goalposts as and when it suits them.

And you are attacking people who you should be standing with.

No sorry I won't defend you.

The point is this -

The private sector workers have for generations allowed their pay and pensions to be eroded.

And now when public sector workers rise up to prevent the same happening to them the likes of you attack them.

For what?

For protecting their incomes?

Why were you not protesting when the working poor were being turned into just that by having their pensions and pay eroded?

Too busy paying for that home outright - something that the working poor cannot do.

Yes mate, you're not fooling anyone, when you say "why should the working poor subsidise..." you mean why should you subsidise, and you my good man are far from working poor if you own your own home outright and have never had to borrow to do it.

Come back when you have an argument other than the selfish "why should I" rubbish banded about by the tabloid press.

[quote][p][bold]EthanEdwards[/bold] wrote:
Well thats more polite. Now you've toned down most of the ad-hominems.
How is the Banking mess anything to do with my vast cadre of Ilk's then?
Since I don't work in Banking or Politics. Nor have I over borrowed and I own my own home outright. So love to hear that one of how my Ilk and myself did that..
However.
Clearly explain why should the working poor subsidise the Public sector gold plated pensions then.
So go on then if your so smart..defend the indefensible.
In your own words begin....[/p][/quote]Defend the indefensible.
Your view that the public sector pensions are gold plated is utter crap, you are merely trotting out the media led misinformation, and you have the cheek to ask me to put things "in my own words". They are no more gold plated than you pension is, especially as the government seem to be moving the goalposts as and when it suits them.
And you are attacking people who you should be standing with.
No sorry I won't defend you.
The point is this -
The private sector workers have for generations allowed their pay and pensions to be eroded.
And now when public sector workers rise up to prevent the same happening to them the likes of you attack them.
For what?
For protecting their incomes?
Why were you not protesting when the working poor were being turned into just that by having their pensions and pay eroded?
Too busy paying for that home outright - something that the working poor cannot do.
Yes mate, you're not fooling anyone, when you say "why should the working poor subsidise..." you mean why should you subsidise, and you my good man are far from working poor if you own your own home outright and have never had to borrow to do it.
Come back when you have an argument other than the selfish "why should I" rubbish banded about by the tabloid press.ravenmorpheus

How about this then.
You say that for years the Public sector wages have been eroded right?

Then kindly explain how come they are presently on 8% more than the private sector equivalent.
h/t Institute for Fiscal Studies.

Yet more media hype?

And I truly mean just that. Why should public sector pensions be topped up by taxpayers. This is what is know as the unfunded portion.

Telegraph...10/7/10 says
The Government says total outstanding public sector pensions liabilities are equivalent to 53pc of national income. The IEA/IOD puts the true cost at 74pc of GDP. Towers Watson, a highly-respected group of actuaries, calculates total liabilities as no less than 83pc of national income – more than our national debt.

So they got it wrong too?

Only you are right?

Incidentally I did once have a mortgage but I paid it off. Not that that is any of your beeswax. But still waiting to hear how all of this is my and my ilk's fault.

How about this then.
You say that for years the Public sector wages have been eroded right?
Then kindly explain how come they are presently on 8% more than the private sector equivalent.
h/t Institute for Fiscal Studies.
Yet more media hype?
And I truly mean just that. Why should public sector pensions be topped up by taxpayers. This is what is know as the unfunded portion.
Telegraph...10/7/10 says
The Government says total outstanding public sector pensions liabilities are equivalent to 53pc of national income. The IEA/IOD puts the true cost at 74pc of GDP. Towers Watson, a highly-respected group of actuaries, calculates total liabilities as no less than 83pc of national income – more than our national debt.
So they got it wrong too?
Only you are right?
Incidentally I did once have a mortgage but I paid it off. Not that that is any of your beeswax. But still waiting to hear how all of this is my and my ilk's fault.EthanEdwards

Raven...Let's cut to the chase here.
If you think the public pensions are so very poor. You are 100% free to move your pension to the private sector. Go get a quote and see just how much income you'd get for your present contributions. Or take your present entitlement and work it back to see how much you'd have to be putting in to get your cuurent defined benefit.
You won't move it of course but it will tell you just how gold plated in fact they are.
So quit the abuse, just you go and get a quote. Then come back here and admit your chatting through your hat.

Raven...Let's cut to the chase here.
If you think the public pensions are so very poor. You are 100% free to move your pension to the private sector. Go get a quote and see just how much income you'd get for your present contributions. Or take your present entitlement and work it back to see how much you'd have to be putting in to get your cuurent defined benefit.
You won't move it of course but it will tell you just how gold plated in fact they are.
So quit the abuse, just you go and get a quote. Then come back here and admit your chatting through your hat.EthanEdwards

"How about this then.
You say that for years the Public sector wages have been eroded right?"

No, I said PRIVATE sector.

"Incidentally I did once have a mortgage but I paid it off. Not that that is any of your beeswax. But still waiting to hear how all of this is my and my ilk's fault."

No of course not. You brought up the fact that you own your own home, in relation to your comment on "the working poor".

I pointed out that you are not of the working, at all, and never will be.

Please do keep up, if you are going to troll simply because you wish to attack a section of society for the fun of stirring things up at least quote people and understand their points correctly.

And when have I said I have a pension, or that I work in the public sector?

I'm a private sector worker, I currently have no pension provision, and yet I have every sympathy with the public sector workers because if it was my pension (if I had one) I would feel the same way and I would also be trying to take action to prevent the changes that are happening with the public sector pensions.

You say that private pensions are 8% down on public sector pensions - why then is it that you, and other private sector workers refuse to stand up for your rights and demand an equal pension.

Why must it always be a race to see who can be poorest to soonest?

You've tried taking the stance that you support "the working poor", you've tried quoting figures, you've insulted various people on here who are in support of the public sector workers, it's you who need to quit chatting through you hat.

"How about this then.
You say that for years the Public sector wages have been eroded right?"
No, I said PRIVATE sector.
"Incidentally I did once have a mortgage but I paid it off. Not that that is any of your beeswax. But still waiting to hear how all of this is my and my ilk's fault."
No of course not. You brought up the fact that you own your own home, in relation to your comment on "the working poor".
I pointed out that you are not of the working, at all, and never will be.
Please do keep up, if you are going to troll simply because you wish to attack a section of society for the fun of stirring things up at least quote people and understand their points correctly.
And when have I said I have a pension, or that I work in the public sector?
I'm a private sector worker, I currently have no pension provision, and yet I have every sympathy with the public sector workers because if it was my pension (if I had one) I would feel the same way and I would also be trying to take action to prevent the changes that are happening with the public sector pensions.
You say that private pensions are 8% down on public sector pensions - why then is it that you, and other private sector workers refuse to stand up for your rights and demand an equal pension.
Why must it always be a race to see who can be poorest to soonest?
You've tried taking the stance that you support "the working poor", you've tried quoting figures, you've insulted various people on here who are in support of the public sector workers, it's you who need to quit chatting through you hat.ravenmorpheus

I said public sector wages are 8% higher than the equivalent private sector. No grey area there - they are.

I also said that the public sector unfunded final salary (defined benefit) pension amount is up to 83 pc of our GDI. with source....

Namely that the private sector workers (all of them you included -now) are subsidising the public sector pensions. These are undeniable facts. Every intelligent source backs this up. You however deny it.

I am not of the working?
Odd that here I am at job working. Am I somehow not here is that what your saying?
No I am not working poor but anyone on minimum wage most certainly is and you SHOULD resent the hell out of a system that steals from you to pay people richer than yourself.

That you SAY you do not suggests that your either not what you say you are or haven't properly figured it out yet.

You say you have no pension provision. You have NI contributions so you do have the state pension. Even so this matter affects you. Yes by all means try to improve your lot but supporting those better off than you in a pointless strike isn't IMO going to help anyone.

Thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much as you are yours. I claim mine as being logical and factual whereas yours appears to me to be just emotive.

Nice try but misquoting my post won't wash.
I said public sector wages are 8% higher than the equivalent private sector. No grey area there - they are.
I also said that the public sector unfunded final salary (defined benefit) pension amount is up to 83 pc of our GDI. with source....
Namely that the private sector workers (all of them you included -now) are subsidising the public sector pensions. These are undeniable facts. Every intelligent source backs this up. You however deny it.
I am not of the working?
Odd that here I am at job working. Am I somehow not here is that what your saying?
No I am not working poor but anyone on minimum wage most certainly is and you SHOULD resent the hell out of a system that steals from you to pay people richer than yourself.
That you SAY you do not suggests that your either not what you say you are or haven't properly figured it out yet.
You say you have no pension provision. You have NI contributions so you do have the state pension. Even so this matter affects you. Yes by all means try to improve your lot but supporting those better off than you in a pointless strike isn't IMO going to help anyone.
Thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much as you are yours. I claim mine as being logical and factual whereas yours appears to me to be just emotive.EthanEdwards

I said public sector wages are 8% higher than the equivalent private sector. No grey area there - they are."
---
Misquoting your post? I'm sorry where did I misquote you? 8% down on Private sector is exactly the same as what you've said.

I may have said IF but that is because I don't believe the figures you have quoted because they are invariably manipulated by those providing them, especially if they come from government sources.

And at least I understood your post, you quoted me as saying Public when I in fact said Private.

Trying to twist what I was saying for more trolling were you?

====
"I am not of the working?
Odd that here I am at job working. Am I somehow not here is that what your saying?
No I am not working poor but anyone on minimum wage most certainly is and you SHOULD resent the hell out of a system that steals from you to pay people richer than yourself."
---

What I meant to say is that you are not of the working poor. PC malfunction. So sue me.

And do you want to know why, as a person in the private sector on NMW I don't resent the hell out of the public sector -

Because they provide a service.

One that due to chronic asthma and eczema and various other health issues in my childhood, and a severely broken knee 5 years ago I have had cause to use parts of that service frequently.

If the public sector were not paid what they are paid we would not have an NHS - and I would quite possibly not be alive.

Why do you begrudge them a living and a reasonable pension in retirement?

Why must you and everyone who supposedly on the side of the "working poor" demand the public sector be made poorer, is it some contest to see who can be poorest quickest?

===
"You say you have no pension provision. You have NI contributions so you do have the state pension. Even so this matter affects you. Yes by all means try to improve your lot but supporting those better off than you in a pointless strike isn't IMO going to help anyone."
---

And you think the state pension will be enough to live on in the future?

Dream on. My father was on a state pension, shortly before he died a year ago, he lived in relative poverty, barely able to pay his bills.

Do you think that situation will get better in years to come or worse?

Yes I have no pension provision currently, but I don't intend it to be that way for long, if I can help it, but I don't begrudge anyone who provides a service that I have used trying to protect their pensions.

The majority of public sector workers are not better off than anyone as you think they are - you are falling for clap trap the media and government spin.

You think all the public sector workers earn £40k pa judging by what you've said.

You couldn't be more wrong.

===
Thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much as you are yours. I claim mine as being logical and factual whereas yours appears to me to be just emotive.
---

Yes that is your opinion.

But that doesn't give you the right to attack public sector workers for standing up for themselves, nor does it give you the right to make asinine and insulting comments such as -

"Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job? "

Let me guess though, I've just misquoted what was printed in black and white further up this thread.

Jog on mate, you're no more for the working poor than Cameron is.

Those who do genuinely support the working poor do not advocate making other people the working poor as well.

"Nice try but misquoting my post won't wash.
I said public sector wages are 8% higher than the equivalent private sector. No grey area there - they are."
---
Misquoting your post? I'm sorry where did I misquote you? 8% down on Private sector is exactly the same as what you've said.
I may have said IF but that is because I don't believe the figures you have quoted because they are invariably manipulated by those providing them, especially if they come from government sources.
And at least I understood your post, you quoted me as saying Public when I in fact said Private.
Trying to twist what I was saying for more trolling were you?
====
"I am not of the working?
Odd that here I am at job working. Am I somehow not here is that what your saying?
No I am not working poor but anyone on minimum wage most certainly is and you SHOULD resent the hell out of a system that steals from you to pay people richer than yourself."
---
What I meant to say is that you are not of the working poor. PC malfunction. So sue me.
And do you want to know why, as a person in the private sector on NMW I don't resent the hell out of the public sector -
Because they provide a service.
One that due to chronic asthma and eczema and various other health issues in my childhood, and a severely broken knee 5 years ago I have had cause to use parts of that service frequently.
If the public sector were not paid what they are paid we would not have an NHS - and I would quite possibly not be alive.
Why do you begrudge them a living and a reasonable pension in retirement?
Why must you and everyone who supposedly on the side of the "working poor" demand the public sector be made poorer, is it some contest to see who can be poorest quickest?
===
"You say you have no pension provision. You have NI contributions so you do have the state pension. Even so this matter affects you. Yes by all means try to improve your lot but supporting those better off than you in a pointless strike isn't IMO going to help anyone."
---
And you think the state pension will be enough to live on in the future?
Dream on. My father was on a state pension, shortly before he died a year ago, he lived in relative poverty, barely able to pay his bills.
Do you think that situation will get better in years to come or worse?
Yes I have no pension provision currently, but I don't intend it to be that way for long, if I can help it, but I don't begrudge anyone who provides a service that I have used trying to protect their pensions.
The majority of public sector workers are not better off than anyone as you think they are - you are falling for clap trap the media and government spin.
You think all the public sector workers earn £40k pa judging by what you've said.
You couldn't be more wrong.
===
Thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it as much as you are yours. I claim mine as being logical and factual whereas yours appears to me to be just emotive.
---
Yes that is your opinion.
But that doesn't give you the right to attack public sector workers for standing up for themselves, nor does it give you the right to make asinine and insulting comments such as -
"Very touchy, are you one of these Outreach Co-ordinators? or do you have a proper job? "
Let me guess though, I've just misquoted what was printed in black and white further up this thread.
Jog on mate, you're no more for the working poor than Cameron is.
Those who do genuinely support the working poor do not advocate making other people the working poor as well.ravenmorpheus

"Misquoting your post? I'm sorry where did I misquote you? 8% down on Private sector is exactly the same as what you've said."

Sorry that should say 8% down on Public sector. Lol. Now I'm getting my Private and Public confused.

"Misquoting your post? I'm sorry where did I misquote you? 8% down on Private sector is exactly the same as what you've said."
Sorry that should say 8% down on Public sector. Lol. Now I'm getting my Private and Public confused.ravenmorpheus

The public sector pointlessly striking (and your supporting of it) isn't going to magic into existence bottomless pits of free money to pay for wonderful huge pensions for all. That seems to be the major hole in your position.

If you want everyone to have wonderful pensions (paid for by someone else) thats just pie in the sky.

I'm on the side of the poor buggers who are the someone else - expected to pay through the nose. It's patently unfair and you know it but won't admit it.

Difference between us is wishing something were so, and the reality rarely coincide.

The public sector pointlessly striking (and your supporting of it) isn't going to magic into existence bottomless pits of free money to pay for wonderful huge pensions for all. That seems to be the major hole in your position.
If you want everyone to have wonderful pensions (paid for by someone else) thats just pie in the sky.
I'm on the side of the poor buggers who are the someone else - expected to pay through the nose. It's patently unfair and you know it but won't admit it.
Difference between us is wishing something were so, and the reality rarely coincide.EthanEdwards