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Religion in Politics

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[url=http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=41015... do american political candidates openly discuss their religion on the campaign trail?[/url]
I wondered about this when bush ran in 2000.
anyone have any ideas on why some do. and as the article points out, it seems that most cadidatesfor this next election are doing the same. i agree with the european thought on it, that it has nothing to do with politics, and has no business being used or discussed in politics.

Democratic presidential front-runner Howard Dean has started awkwardly discussing religion on the stump, trying to shake off a label many European politicians would covet -- the most secular candidate in the race.

I like knowing what religion the runners are, because it tells me how they will lead. I think that religion should have no part in politics, but realistically, they play a huge part in American culture. We are still so young that we haven't dismissed religion, yet.

[i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]We are still so young that we haven't dismissed religion, yet. [/B]

I think it's backwards, we havent really [I]found[/I] religion yet. We still believe ourselves far enough from death so we have an air of invincibility. People getting closer to knocking on heavens door, want comfort in the knowledge of an afterlife.

[i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]I think it's backwards, we havent really [I]found[/I] religion yet. We still believe ourselves far enough from death so we have an air of invincibility. People getting closer to knocking on heavens door, want comfort in the knowledge of an afterlife. [/B]

By 'we' I didn't mean the individuals in America. I meant America as a country.

England, France... most of Western Europe had all sorts of religious wars and persecution, but today they take more of a stance of "meh" on religion. It is not part of the political culture nearly as much as it has been. We Americans, and we are not alone, but we still see religion as a reason to kill and be killed. Religion still dominates our political culture.

[i]Originally posted by alene [/i]
[B]we still see religion as a reason to kill and be killed. [/B]

explain.
I'm not sure who kills over religion.
Unless you count people killing for Charlie Manson, which was kinda like a religion (cult?)
I see everyone as being pretty damn indifferent. I think people kill over skin color faster then God.

[i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]explain.
I'm not sure who kills over religion.
Unless you count people killing for Charlie Manson, which was kinda like a religion (cult?)
I see everyone as being pretty damn indifferent. I think people kill over skin color faster then God. [/B]

Are you serious? We aren't running around on a religious crusade, but I know very few people who are indifferent about religion, and I do not mean just in Utah. Americans will not vote in an athiest president. Look at the religious banter spewed out constantly in America: abortion, prayer, death penalty and yes - politics. Don't take everything so literally, Laz. There is definitely some racism in America, but it is nothing compared to the religious difference.

Well yeah totally there's religious influence out there but is it a major contributor to our actions? Abortion is legal. The Ten Commandments just got banned from somewhere (J. Edgar Hoover building? I cant remember), gay marriages... I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any of these, but I"m saying they go against the foundations of most religions I've heard of. If anything being Christian and supporting abortion wold make you a tad hypocritical, wouldnt it>?

[i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]Well yeah totally there's religious influence out there but is it a major contributor to our actions? Abortion is legal. The Ten Commandments just got banned from somewhere (J. Edgar Hoover building? I cant remember), gay marriages... I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any of these, but I"m saying they go against the foundations of most religions I've heard of. If anything being Christian and supporting abortion wold make you a tad hypocritical, wouldnt it>? [/B]

And are you aware how the majority feels about abortion? Currently the MAJORITY is against abortion and Bush just recently passed a law restricting it. Gay marriage is legal in what - 3 states? Of course we have a religious push-back, but it is by no stretch of the imagination eliminated in our culture. We are still fighting over religion - as are people everywhere - but we are not even to the point where we can get it out of our collective conscience and out of politics.

abrotion is being restricted maybe but still legal. I dont know how many people are against it, but I know everyone isn't against it for simply religious reasons, some people are against it for moral reasons too. When was Roe v. Wade again? 1973? So that's been for awhile... as opposed to gay marriages which became legal in those three states a short time ago. THe people who are really worried about kids praying in schools are sending them to private schools anyway.

[i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]abrotion is being restricted maybe but still legal. I dont know how many people are against it, but I know everyone isn't against it for simply religious reasons, some people are against it for moral reasons too. When was Roe v. Wade again? 1973? So that's been for awhile... as opposed to gay marriages which became legal in those three states a short time ago. THe people who are really worried about kids praying in schools are sending them to private schools anyway. [/B]

How does any of this prove that there is not a religious conscious? Just because people worried about prayer in schools are sending their kids to private schools, does this mean that somehow religion doesn't enter into it?

Ironic, but Ms Jane Roe, Norma McCorvey, has joined a christian group and is a vocal anti-abortion activist. She is sorry that she ever had an abortion, that she ever supported it, and is delighted that she has found god.

There are always waves of religion in culture, and we ride along. Still, it is there, sometimes an undercurrent and sometimes it's crashing on the sand...

The very fact that women have such a minor role to play in politics is 100% because of religion. And that we won't vote in an athiest president. We move in a very liberal subculture, so we don't see nearly as much of the God blinding as is out there. It wasn't until Christianity came about that women were ever even considered to be not equals in society. It is an undercurrent right now, but it runs through nearly everything.

name all of the religious organizations that are openly against abortion, and you can only count all the christian churches and sects as 1.
kids do still pray in public schools, it's just not allowed out loud. gay marrige is a new issue, but it has been brought up for years, this is just the first time it has been considered. america is still holding tight to it's religious beginnings.

before the orientals the paganist worshiped women, saying that they were more intelligent and represented a higher level than men. we can go back as far as you want chief, but yes, christianity took all that and turned it "evil" along with poseidon's trident, the wise old crone's hat and the pentagram (actually it used to be the symbol for the female power). christianity was the first to take women and subvert their status in society and in the family life, FOR THE WESTERN TRADITION. eastern religions are just starting to be introduced to western culture.

[i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]So you're saying that woman were equal until roughly 2000 years ago? You're full of shit, for sure. [/B]

Lazlo, you have no clue, do you? You are so fully enveloped in modern mentality that you cannot even fathom things being different.

Yes, women were equal. Nature was considered balanced with a man and a woman. You weren't complete without one and sex was a union of this equality. Many symbols that you see today, like Trypd mentioned, were symols worshipping women. As a specific example: women in viking culture owned land, voted, and were asked for advice. Women were considered wise and considered a great source of knowledge. They had equal rights in every way. It never even crossed their minds that women should be held down and that they were not equal. Christianity brought about the inequality and worked to erase the idea that women were equal. Look at nature, Laz. Everything is balanced. Isn't it odd, then, that we humans are the only anomaly - we are not balanced.

Try doing some research on paganism. Or on christianity and paganism. Christianity is so interlaced with paganism, you would be shocked.

No, I"m not doubting you in all places. I remember among the native americans for instance females were held in high regard, but this wasnt a universal belief among all cultures and religions before 2000 years ago. I looked real quick on the internet for some kind of supporting or contrasting belief, and didnt find anything, and sorry, if I wanted to sit here and do research, I have more important things to study.

[i]Originally posted by Lazlosdead [/i]
[B]No, I"m not doubting you in all places. I remember among the native americans for instance females were held in high regard, but this wasnt a universal belief among all cultures and religions before 2000 years ago. I looked real quick on the internet for some kind of supporting or contrasting belief, and didnt find anything, and sorry, if I wanted to sit here and do research, I have more important things to study. [/B]

So why come here and argue when you openly admit that you have no idea and aren't willing to research to back yourself up?

Yes it was a universal thought in all the western cultures at one point. They didn't really have the same religious factions that we do now.

you don't have to be for it to not say something about it, you just have to not be openly against it. when was the last time you heard a rabbi talk about abortion? what about a hindu priest?
and native american culture hasn't influenced western beliefs very much. laz, as alene said, you can't say that you just don't believe it and not support your argument. you said you did a quick internet search, that's hardly even close to do any "looking into". the internet may have a lot of good info on it, but you have to know how to look for it.

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