I just thought i would highlight the risks of using these options outside of ebay, especially with someone you dont know or trust.

payment via gift is essentially a free bank transfer, there is no protection at all (as there is no actual goods involved supposedly) so if paypal are going to charge you for gift payment you may as well use your online banking to do it.

payment via goods invoice ect incurs something like a 4% fee, with this you get "seller protection" which is a load of crap, you are protected against non-receipt claims as long as you can prove delivery/signature ect, and we all know that couriers leave parcels unsigned for, give them to neighbours, or the buyer could sign for them with a different name, giving you a headache trying to prove your case.

But the key thing is that there is NO protection against chargebacks, so even if paypal sided with you on delivery, the buyer could ring his card company and reverse the charge, and paypal will not help you, they will deduct the amount from you and thats it.

paypal only cover chargebacks on deals done through ebay, so no paypal payments are protected.

my advice would be ask for cash, postal order or collection, i hear more and more stories of chargebacks.

So a seller can not sell here asking for gift payments only ( I agree with this) but you're saying the seller should "ask for cash, postal order" Aren't you (the seller) protected if you get a Paypal payment if you send an invoice?

I get a lot of the anti-gift sentiment that is going on both on here and FB but it has to be a two way street - I had a chap on FB last night ask me for a load of weapons - I gave him prices and then he wanted a bulk price - which I gave him - then he wanted to do a deal. Yet when I said he could have that deal but I would like gift payment or for him to cover the fees he gets all uppity - 'Oh I don't do gift' - 'Oh I thought PayPal was included'

It annoys me all this 'well the seller should swallow the fees' - that's all well and good but then stop trying to screw the seller down on price at the same time

My reputation is worth more than a few hundred quid and I intend to keep it that way. I will always give people the option of paying fees and have no problem if that is what they want to do. I think the no Paypal gift rule should obviously count to those new to the forums or with very limited feedback but for those of us who have been a while then surely it is down to the buyer whether they chose to trust us or not?

"I'll probably be broke and homeless but I'll have a hell of a collection!"

itfciain wrote:My reputation is one of a pillock and I intend to keep it that way. I will always give people the option of paying fees and have no problem if that is what they want to do. I think the no Paypal gift rule should obviously count to those new to the forums or with very limited feedback but for those of us who have been a while then surely it is down to the buyer whether they chose to trust us or not?

I totally agree with this. It's down to the common sense of the buyer. I will always gift payment those I trust. Those I don't. Then it's my fault if I do so.

aussiejames wrote:So a seller can not sell here asking for gift payments only ( I agree with this) but you're saying the seller should "ask for cash, postal order" Aren't you (the seller) protected if you get a Paypal payment if you send an invoice?

No mate, im just saying its the same protection ie none at all, if you send an invoice thats fine but the buyer can still reverse the charge and lie, still open a not as described case if they are a scammer.

If they are going to scam you they can still do it no matter what so its up to you guys to judge. Paypal is just shit if you ask me.

itfciain wrote:I get a lot of the anti-gift sentiment that is going on both on here and FB but it has to be a two way street - I had a chap on FB last night ask me for a load of weapons - I gave him prices and then he wanted a bulk price - which I gave him - then he wanted to do a deal. Yet when I said he could have that deal but I would like gift payment or for him to cover the fees he gets all uppity - 'Oh I don't do gift' - 'Oh I thought PayPal was included'

It annoys me all this 'well the seller should swallow the fees' - that's all well and good but then stop trying to screw the seller down on price at the same time

My reputation is worth more than a few hundred quid and I intend to keep it that way. I will always give people the option of paying fees and have no problem if that is what they want to do. I think the no Paypal gift rule should obviously count to those new to the forums or with very limited feedback but for those of us who have been a while then surely it is down to the buyer whether they chose to trust us or not?

Totally agree too with this. This rule is mainly aimed at new members. Their is a group of sellers who are 100% trustworthy. Dont forget to Use the feedback secton too to check to check up on the seller. Thats was it there for.

Stay safe guys.

"Ill probably be broke and homeless but I'll have a hell of a collection!"

itfciain wrote:I get a lot of the anti-gift sentiment that is going on both on here and FB but it has to be a two way street - I had a chap on FB last night ask me for a load of weapons - I gave him prices and then he wanted a bulk price - which I gave him - then he wanted to do a deal. Yet when I said he could have that deal but I would like gift payment or for him to cover the fees he gets all uppity - 'Oh I don't do gift' - 'Oh I thought PayPal was included'

It annoys me all this 'well the seller should swallow the fees' - that's all well and good but then stop trying to screw the seller down on price at the same time

My reputation is worth more than a few hundred quid and I intend to keep it that way. I will always give people the option of paying fees and have no problem if that is what they want to do. I think the no Paypal gift rule should obviously count to those new to the forums or with very limited feedback but for those of us who have been a while then surely it is down to the buyer whether they chose to trust us or not?

I'm the same. Whenever I sell on here my prices assume either gift payment, hopefully people know i'm not a scammer, or that the buyer pays the fees. I've had a few people back out of deals over this but that's their choice. I state quite clearly in my listings my prices don't include PP or that the buyer pays them.

Personally, i don't have an issue with gift payments between regulars and trusted sellers. Our, frequently recurring problem, is people sending gift payments to ANYONE on here expecting everyone to be a solid stand up guy. Whilst we don't tolerate scammers it's impossible to vouch for every single member. Even once decent blokes can turn into scammers. Look at Han.

The whole poo pooing of gift payments is basically our way of trying to protect naive overly trusting newbies, or limit the scope for people who are out to scam. If done between long term regulars that's fine. At the end of the day use a little common sense, just check the bloke you're sending money to is actually likely to follow through, if in doubt pay the fees yourself.

Obviously, that does leave a bit of a gray area in terms of what exactly constitutes a "long term regular" or a solid seller. There are guys on here with hundreds of posts who have probably not said more than "bump" and "nice item". Going back to my previous example, Han was also a regular and one time decent guy and he ended up scamming people. As before, it's a case of using your common sense guys.

I sent payment as a gift to a so called trusted seller with pages of good feedback and now lost some 64 gbps. I'd happily cover the fees in the future but will never buy via gift payment again, even if it's a Yak Face for 30 quids.

Some interesting points made here. I both agree and disagree with some of what's been said. Paypal gift payments should definitely only be used if the seller is trusted on the forum and has a good reputation and solid feedback. What I don't get is why sellers nearly always ask for gift payments or expect the buyer to pay the fees. That's not right. There are two parties involved doing a transaction, a buyer and a seller. Paypal is a middleman, there to (supposedly) safely process the payment for both parties so if there is fees to pay the seller should pay half and the buyer should pay half. Why should the buyer pay it? No reason. There is someone selling 12 backs and asking for gift payment or buyer pays the fees. Who's gona send a gift payment for £1300!? If I was buying them which I'm not, there is no way I'm paying 50 quid on top to cover fees.

Some good points here although I've always figured that when selling something off of ebay you have to factor in any fees as part of the price. The seller puts the price up that they want (normally a better deal than ebay) and that's the price they expect to receive. The buyer should have a better deal than ebay even with the fees added (if they don't want to sent a gift payment), and if the price is to high for them then they simply shouldn't buy it.

The one thing about this thread that seems to be the point of it is that the seller doesn't seem to be covered unless they receive a gift payment. I think I'm understanding that the right way? If the buyer sends a gift payment they could get scammed but with a fees payment they could scam the seller with a charge back? Please correct me though if I'm wrong about that but it's a potential problem for both people involved (if I've got that right?).

yes even if you use a goods payment the buyer can reverse the charge with his bank, the bank always rules over paypal, now paypal say they will help fight your corner but i wouldnt put my faith in them at all.Saying that though, the buyer has to account for his actions so the bank wouldnt take it lightly if it was fraud, but how do you prove you didnt send a fake ect, he could say he received a fake in the box, show his bank pictures and get the charge reversed.