I personally would jump right this whole thing with gun-ho anti-nationalism, but the fear of getting a bag over my head and thrown into a high-security prison for life is kind of only leaving me with the option to run from all this. I have a long way to go before I'm ready to lose everything.

Now on a different note, they say they are preparing for civil war. Do they actually know what that may constitute? Do they know what could actually happen if US forces are unable to operate properly? All the security that we get from them falls. Your neighbor could easily burglarize your home. Your wife could kill you and not give a second thought about it. The Russians can come into your city and declare Russian military annexation of your area, and if you say no, expect a bullet through your head. And Iran? Just think of the possibilities.

And finally, think about it. Who operates Anonymous? I'd say that their power lies in about 10k regular idiots with nothing to do with their time (of which, only 1k participate actively in any given raid), anywhere between 1k and 100 script kiddies. and probably no more than 20 real hackers and 1 to 5 bot-net operators. Do you really think that they can start a 'civil war'?

WallShadow wrote:And finally, think about it. Who operates Anonymous? I'd say that their power lies in about 10k regular idiots with nothing to do with their time (of which, only 1k participate actively in any given raid), anywhere between 1k and 100 script kiddies. and probably no more than 20 real hackers and 1 to 5 bot-net operators. Do you really think that they can start a 'civil war'?

Just a rant. If you had 20 guys standing outside the white house making shit go down, they'd get their asses kicked, being online however, i think their small numbers aren't as much of a problem. I actually like anonymous in the sense that their hitting their enemies in the one way that they can really beat them, online, and that just pisses their enemies off, tango down, bitches The main plan off attack that i can see for anonymous would be to bring more media attention to their cause and recruit more members, problem is that the media protrays then ass ass holes, which may or may not be fair, though i think bringing up that a hacker smokes pot is irrelivant and just plain defamation and most people that read into this stuff but aren't directly affected or in the know just think their "punks" that "steal" other peoples property or are causing mischeff because their some lame nerd steriotype which is seen as bad. When all is said and done though, the world is ending in 2 months so who gives a fuck?

Goatboy wrote:Oh, that's simple. All you need to do is dedicate many years of your life to studying security.

WallShadow wrote:And finally, think about it. Who operates Anonymous? I'd say that their power lies in about 10k regular idiots with nothing to do with their time (of which, only 1k participate actively in any given raid), anywhere between 1k and 100 script kiddies. and probably no more than 20 real hackers and 1 to 5 bot-net operators. Do you really think that they can start a 'civil war'?

I don't really see anything new in this video...Americans didn't care before so I doubt they'll suddenly start fighting back after some subliminal messages in a silly video on youtube.I think a couple of people need to die first, preferably children, before anyone starts to care. I'd estimate we're still at least 3 years away until its really noticeable for the average American that he no longer has any rights and by then it'll probably be too late.Assuming the military doesn't object to killing its own civilians you guys are horribly outmatched in a real world fight. On the internet I'd like to believe we'd win, if only because of the huge amount of skilled hackers that don't care right now that might be given a reason to follow anon.But none of those internet things would actually change anything. Things might only be changed if people in the real world start protesting and fighting. I don't think anyone would want to start bombing agencies if they're going to be the only person/group doing this, and that would only give justification to all these silly laws.As a foreigner, I have even less rights then you guys but unless nearly all Americans object and are willing to fight to change things back to normal I doubt things will ever be corrected.

So instead of fighting this, I suggest we come up with new terms for fascist regimes. Something more modern.. like fascism 2.0. America already lost its "land of the free" term 10 years ago and is now labelled "land of hypocrisy" in foreign nations. I think it needs something more catchy that we can all agree on.

<Yoda> if someone says something i don't like, i ban him, ban whoever defends him, and then ban the witnesses...

weekend hacker wrote:I think a couple of people need to die first, preferably children, before anyone starts to care.

Please explain what you mean by this, are you saying that until the government starts ruthlessly killing people, no one will even bother to get off their couch for this?

Also, I agree that swinging the internet's opinion won't change much, but a good hack against the government servers and systems would cripple their abilities to coordinate attacks against resistance movements, don't you think?

I hate things like this, I really, really, really hate things like this. I mean, the United States currently has one of the best if not the best legal systems out there in both their fair treatment of the American populous, and their ability to over throw laws that are found unjust, even if they made them in the first place. Not only that, but as Americans, we have the most freedoms given to it's populous. I mean, the very thought that we can talk about our government freely together, right here, right now, is a privilege that most other people take for granted. In North Korea, if we were having a similar conversation, we'd be arrested and killed (or possibly made use as slaves) faster than we could apologize (yes, that is an extreme example, but if you want a less extreme example that still proves my point, just ask).

What is that you say? Internet liberties are different than physical ones? No. They're not. There is nowhere in any law, on the planet (that I am aware of at least) that guarantee's you that you'll be able to go to all the websites you want. No law that guarantee's that you'll be able to do what you want on the Internet, otherwise, I'm pretty sure the majority of site blockers are breaking the law. Besides, if you're hosting your site on a certain ISP that doesn't like what you're doing, you have no right to tell them that they can't do it. It's their property, their servers, and their files -- the fact that you're renting it from them doesn't mean all that much when you're breaking their ToS.

Though, the thing that really ticks me off, is when civilians believe to their hearts content that they know how to run the American Government better than it is going right now. Yes, right now there's lots of shit that is really bad and needs to be stopped, and yes, the government is probably doing stuff that we wouldn't approve of if it were made public. However, as a whole, the government is a huge ass entity (estimated at just shy of 20 million people working for it right now (http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=228)), and as a whole, it's doing its just exactly how it should. But, when you have such a large set of people such as 20 million, you could probably guess that 2 million or so, will be doing shit that's wrong (just a guess). That's about 10% of the government that's doing things that are wrong. That means that 90% of the government is doing things completely right! Sure, we have issues, but those can and will be fixed (look back over the years at the injustices that have existed in America and that were fixed, in comparison to today). (and to those who think they can make a better government, if you can tell me what each position will be in the 20 million jobs, and how every single law and rule will work, I'll believe you. Wait, what is that? You can't do that? You're going to have to borrow some of the practices the US government uses? Then why create another replica of the one you already have)

What it really breaks down to though, is that people are getting their toes stepped on and aren't used to it. People aren't used to not being given everything they want, when they want it, and how they want it. The American populous is pretty much like a toddler right now, and the US Government is giving it a chocolate chip cookie with milk, with just maybe one or two chocolate chips less than the toddler is used to, so what does the toddler do? It want's to flip shit, raise hell, and run away over absolutely nothing. Fuck people like that.

TL;DR: Rant.

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. -Rick Cook

weekend hacker wrote:I think a couple of people need to die first, preferably children, before anyone starts to care.

Please explain what you mean by this, are you saying that until the government starts ruthlessly killing people, no one will even bother to get off their couch for this?

Also, I agree that swinging the internet's opinion won't change much, but a good hack against the government servers and systems would cripple their abilities to coordinate attacks against resistance movements, don't you think?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.And sure some hacks might be useful to get some much needed attention. And skillfull people can definitely help setup secure communications. But down servers will not stop them from cracking down on whoever they want to crack down on. In case of a real fight those skills are perhaps best used in the real world.Ex: secure communications, pointing big ass lasers upwards in an attempt to blind spy sats, disrupting their communications with jammers or other technology, autodail their phone lines to help break down their communications, etc etcSome of these may be internet related but most wouldn't involve getting access to government servers. And when you do have access to some of their servers.. maybe its best to not tell anyone about it but try to use the information you find in the field instead of bringing something down or doing other visible things.I wouldn't advice doing any of these things, and even if you really want to you should wait until a revolution is needed. For now there are other peaceful ways to get your government to listen to you. Stick with those and don't give them an excuse to expand their abuse even more.

centip3de wrote:United States currently has one of the best if not the best legal systems out there

I hate to go there but... you must be an American.Every country in the EU has this, and every country that calls itself democratic pretends to aspire to this.I think the problems mentioned in this video are that the US is moving away from the standard seperation of powers(legislature, an executive, and a judiciary). Shitty laws will not be apealed, you will not have the right to a fair trail(or any trail). All they have to do is use the T word and they can do whatever they want with you. The judiciary branch is being kept out of the loop for as many things as possible.As for internet freedoms, ISPs don't want to block sites. They are being forced to block sites, thats quite a difference.(and a dick move)But not as bad as the huge systematic privacy invasion thats going on. If you use a social network, there are plenty of words that you will often use that'll get you flagged(which means your conversation will get stored in some gov database). If you want to give me a call, our conversation will get recorded, transcribed and then stored for future reference(because I'm a foreigner, so you lose all rights). If you're traveling out of state and have your mobile phone with you, you will get flagged.All those are automatic and already in place. Now if for some reason someone in lawinforcement wants to target you specificly(for instance if you broke up with his daughter) they can, they don't need a warent, and they don't ever have to mention that they did it. And if someone uses the T word, they can simply skip all that and shoot you.These things seem like huge problems to me.And I know you guys have never had fascism, or life under stasi rule. But those memories are still fresh enough here in europe to not want to go there ever again and to always watch out for those signs.

centip3de wrote:That means that 90% of the government is doing things completely right! Sure, we have issues, but those can and will be fixed (look back over the years at the injustices that have existed in America and that were fixed, in comparison to today).

Lets all be happy for this. 10% of evil seems high though, I'd like to believe its lower then that. The problem in my opinion would be that it only takes a very small amount to have some serious consequences(ex: bossman sais spy on civilians, the 99 people working under them are simply doing their job. As seems to be the case in the NSA right now, only its a lot more then 99 people). And if I look at those injustices of the past as you say.. the US has been horrible at fixing those things. It seems to have taken decades if not more for it to correct itself. And right now it isn't moving forward but backwards.. I have no idea how they'll somehow change their backwards momentum. Add to that that the political scene has changed, money talks more then it ever has.

So yeah hate to say it, but you guys are doomed.

<Yoda> if someone says something i don't like, i ban him, ban whoever defends him, and then ban the witnesses...