I do not like this idea. I do not think it contributes to anything. Instead I think the peaceful mode should be improved. No aliens at all, no weapon technology. This requires that weapon research bottle is not needed unless for weapon technology, and that yo move the handgranade feature of destroying forests to explosives.

This immediately reminded me of Age of Empires, when neutral AI would sometimes offer alliances. I think from the start of the game, they should attack you if you get close or create too much pollution, but if, by some midpoint of the game you haven't destroyed *too* many bases, and are careful about how quickly/significantly you impact the environment, you will be given the ability to research a tech tree that only opens up if the natives haven't gone from neutral to hostile already.
Meaning: you can't start off, kill a bunch of bases, then be like "okay, now lets be friends, i spend science packs to make you nice."
But: If you are careful early game, a time frame elapses or after certain research or builds are built, you are able to interact with, tame, or gain prestige/merit with the native alien life ---- then, and only then, can they be of any use to you. perhaps for tokens of some sort, they will trade artifacts (which may be required later in game either for research, other forms of trade, science, or for infusing armor with biological material that heals itself similar to the way biter bases do).

But i think it's important that *IF* it becomes possible to be friendly with natives, that they start off in a neutral state, and if they are angered, it is either nearly impossible, or not possible at all to make them your best friends by just researching a bunch of stuff. i feel like that would make it TOO easy. Either: you are destructive and become their enemy, or you are cautious and are then (and only then) able to research certain technologies and gain certain items. this would FORCE players to choose: do they want to get lots of resources quick, or do they not want to run the risk of generating too much pollution too fast, angering the wildlife, and killing the enemies----irreparably turning the wildlife against them forever. I think that last word *is* important as i've said before: it should be a tactical choice, and there should be consequences for too much pollution or killing biters: they should not forgive at all----or should take tremendous effort to regain their favor if the player was not mindful earlier in the game.

I'd be happy if I could recruit aliens to do work in my factory, either in mining/resource extraction or logistics/moving stuff.

First have tech to transition to green-tech to become a completely non-polluting factory. Restore the environment and absorb pollution.Then have the tech to approach, communicate and interface with biters to team up with them and build things that help biters know what to do for me.

Later, being able to sculp the environment like a bonsai tree once peace and maximal production has been achieved. You know, to build a neat coexisting paradise/utopia city that gives all the resources to fund deep space exploration to make peace amongst the galaxy.

Also having an element of environmental protection of preserving trees could also be added, where the more trees I destroy past a certain threshold (200 trees), the more penalty for movement, reach and max health I suffer, with the character dying to asphyxiation without external life support and oxygen generators if less than 10 trees are left on the map.

For more elaborate suggestion regarding this that suggest a metagame that does not leave the player feeling hollow, see this:viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58404

I feel many games already do the green v dirty thing. It's rare for a game to focus solely on the dirty branch. Factorio doesn't need green tech. I you want to play more with biters it should be in an exploitative manner, like breeding them to kill them for some chemical in their body.

Maybe you can get up to 3 bumper from other planets who scare them, so you can prevent them from atacking 3 circles. Like in Dune.

And you can farm them somethin to eat, so they won´t attack you, if you have enough. Eat the food by yourself from your backpack to be 5% faster or can carry some mor slots of things or give it to the aliens to keep them still for some time - by chance.

You're clearly an evil eldritch abomination that conjures nonsense machinery that shouldn't work but does out of nowhere and rapes their planet for your own amusement.

It's not even about "I have to build a rocket to leave" anymore, it's all about a perverted high score of "how much stuff can I build?" now with infinite science and with you shooting rockets into space to score points that allow you to consume more resources.
Enslaving the natives would make more sense than "peace", but only if it serves your end of building more stuff and getting more spm.

dood wrote:You're clearly an evil eldritch abomination that conjures nonsense machinery that shouldn't work but does out of nowhere and rapes their planet for your own amusement.

It's not even about "I have to build a rocket to leave" anymore, it's all about a perverted high score of "how much stuff can I build?" now with infinite science and with you shooting rockets into space to score points that allow you to consume more resources.
Enslaving the natives would make more sense than "peace", but only if it serves your end of building more stuff and getting more spm.

I think the word your looking for is Automation. Where not evil, were just helping Revolution take place.

Hedning1390 wrote:I feel many games already do the green v dirty thing. It's rare for a game to focus solely on the dirty branch. Factorio doesn't need green tech. I you want to play more with biters it should be in an exploitative manner, like breeding them to kill them for some chemical in their body.

... or breeding a controlled variant that can be unleashed upon the native hordes. Assemblers versus spawner. Productivity versus pollution. And also...

"You know. I have one simple request. And that is to have biters with frickin laserbeams attached to their heads!"

I have to agree with players who say to exploit the natives. Though this goes against my environmentalist real self, it suits the game.

I suggest Biotech. GE. Research into DNA and protein manipulation to turn biter colonies into domesticated creatures for other purposes (food, medicine, beasts of burden) But why you'd need large amounts of such things needs to be addressed. Again I suggest FactoriO2: Colonisation. You are instructed to prepare a colony for the arrival of others. Or a variant off off-world trading as others have come up with...

Genetic engineering is a credible tech path to exploit biters, as opposed to some fantasy nonsense. You be rocket scientists, not wizards.

You could also go the peaceful route by playing God and imparting intelligence in biters over time. Neuronal enhancement therapy type thing. This would mean the biters are still an issue till you can unlock these techs, and then you'd need time to breed the new species, then time to breed out the locals replacing the dumb animals with a more 'useful' neighbor in a perimeter that grows outwards around you.

Dry Hairy Tree wrote:I have to agree with players who say to exploit the natives. Though this goes against my environmentalist real self, it suits the game.

I suggest Biotech. GE. Research into DNA and protein manipulation to turn biter colonies into domesticated creatures for other purposes (food, medicine, beasts of burden) But why you'd need large amounts of such things needs to be addressed. Again I suggest FactoriO2: Colonisation. You are instructed to prepare a colony for the arrival of others. Or a variant off off-world trading as others have come up with...

Genetic engineering is a credible tech path to exploit biters, as opposed to some fantasy nonsense. You be rocket scientists, not wizards.

You could also go the peaceful route by playing God and imparting intelligence in biters over time. Neuronal enhancement therapy type thing. This would mean the biters are still an issue till you can unlock these techs, and then you'd need time to breed the new species, then time to breed out the locals replacing the dumb animals with a more 'useful' neighbor in a perimeter that grows outwards around you.

That would be great! Maybe spitters could make acid ammo. Each base would have different methods of peace making. Small bases would ask for less pollution, whereas large bases(15+ spawners) would ask for walls and turrets. This could prevent ore out posts from being flattened.

cooldu11de123123 wrote:That would be great! Maybe spitters could make acid ammo. Each base would have different methods of peace making. Small bases would ask for less pollution, whereas large bases(15+ spawners) would ask for walls and turrets. This could prevent ore out posts from being flattened.

I imagined an acid ammo production line of spitters hacking up phloem into jars and lol'd

I can see a radar-like entity which emits peaceful waves and toggles biters in its range into "peaceful" state which is already implemented in the game.
Biters in its range do not attack at will and nests do not spawn attack forces when absorbing pollution. Also biter expansion is prevented in the covered area.
This can be a new entity or a Radar MK2 with such capabilities.

I would love to have a more environment friendly approach. Since I do not like to scale my base to infinite extends and optimize everything - specially onward the point you have robots - I also try to avoid removing the cliffs.

However, I basically do not care that much about the biters, but more about pollution, because I love woods, bot only if it has leafs.
So, I wish we could "enslave" them - since spawners absorb quite some pollution, it would be nice to "cage" or "grow" spawners of your own, right mid of your base where it converts pollution into enemies... and goes berserk. So your laser turrets have to be active 24/7 (which comes with quite some energy drain) but your trees at your base have a happy life. So I can have a green city.

Sorry for coming in late on this one but I don't feel like going through gobs of pages before I write this. Yes, I typically speak before I think as well.

What I have been doing since I bought the game is to try and have 0% conflict with the natives. Why? Well I'm not a fan of alien shooting games in general. In fact, it is why I never bought this game before. Then I read something about alien technology and them only getting pissed at pollution. Give it a whirl.

I am so new to the game it is ridiculous but so far here is what I have for assumptions:

ALIEN PEACE:
- So we know that they don't like being charged, killed, or someone coming along and destroying their habitat with pollution. Who does? The first two are easily accomplished but the third is a challenge I've only managed on a couple of sessions.

POLLUTION:
- The goal of the game entails building things. Many of these items can be crafted by hand but many require advanced technology. Which brings us to electricity.

ELECTRICITY: It is possible to generate electricity without burning things and achieve 0% pollution from Energy sources. However, Solar/Accumulators can only be made after using Boilers for quite some time. On rare occasions I have placed boilers where I never got attacked by Aliens. Part of it was random I'm sure as it was a matter of how close a colony/possible colony expansion was to the burner. 99% of the time antagonizing them with pollution from boilers is unavoidable.

PROBLEM #2: To do anything without your head imploding you will need smelted ore. Smelting ore creates manageable pollution, but pollution nonetheless. Time plays into this as well as you are faced with a dilemma: Slower Production/Less Pollution/Evolution Time vs. Fast Production/High Pollution/Pollution Evolution.

SUGGESTIONS: Implementing more technology/gadgets that focus on pollution management could allow a facet of the game with coexisting peace without having to rewire the code. I noticed that there are no Pollution modules that reduce emissions. This could be one example. The main situation though is a way to generate electricity and smelt ore without causing aggravating levels of pollution.

It's ok though I am having fun. I'm getting decent at building Cannon-Fodder-Magnets.

I'd say making the aliens intelligent is a no-go. The genocide of native Americans is a pretty standard sci-fi metaphor, so that would make the choice seem to be "Genocide Yes/No?", which would make the current main mode of play something many people wouldn't consider choosing.

As other people have said, avoidance/pollution management options would be a natural, welcome addition. Perhaps environmental modules to reduce pollution, and maybe a building that sucks up pollution (and consumes stone. This is both somewhat realistic, and provides something to use stone for).

Also when approaching a nest I would like to see a progression from ignoring you -> posturing/ scaring you away-> attacking you. Possibly this progression is dependent on not being too aggressive.

There's also the problem that right now attacking a nest gets you the same reaction as stumbling into a nest. IMHO, exploring should carry significantly less risk that attacking. Yes, we can check the radar in time, but there's a reason you all spent so much more effort on the main screen graphics than the radar.

I'd recommend three potential relationships:

Hatred: Rare, large scale attacks that are a threat even in late game and require personal intervention; perhaps these attacks come with just enough warning to rush over first. Non-polluting non-military structures are the subject of small attacks.

Aggressive: Current normal, provoked by small pollution or coming too close to nests.

I always loved the idea of trading ever since you devs first mentioned it. I'm sure other people have said this but... perhaps the aliens can give you items you can't obtain normally without trading for them?