People want this map... Only TWO people say no to it which are DIABLO and Bravo (Not giving you shit for it) but if the rest of the players want to go to I17 then I say we should have a map change. Do you want people to stay on our server? Well then we should start doing what most of the majority of the players want...

/rant

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Citizen(s) :Shea Vegas - DEADPatrick Croke - Trying to start his own business and relaxing in his apartment.Loyalist(s) :Patrick Free - Slowly recovering from his insanity and he is starting to work at the CWU Goods Store and the Hospital again.Enslaved Biotic(s) :Combine(s) :CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.Anti-citizen(s) : Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.

If the majority of the people said they wanted to be given free M249s and .357s on connect, with 3 boxes of ammo each and a head start on getting to D6, would you think we should go with that too?

It's an exaggeration, but the point is going along with what the majority says with the sole reasoning that the majority decided it's a good idea doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. Not everyone who voted had all the facts, or the perspective that Diablo and I have on the whole affair.

____________________RP Characters:Citizen:Steven Davis-UNKNOWN-[STATUS UNKNOWN]New Union:NU-UCM-HC-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.Resistance:Nick Bradford-Alive-Hiding out in a cave

Former Supreme Military Commander of The CrewFounder of The Event Horizon, that we may rise from the ashes.High Command at Flux Theorem, that the story might continue in ways that are new and yet so similar.

General Bravo wrote:If the majority of the people said they wanted to be given free M249s and .357s on connect, with 3 boxes of ammo each and a head start on getting to D6, would you think we should go with that too?

It's an exaggeration, but the point is going along with what the majority says with the sole reasoning that the majority decided it's a good idea doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. Not everyone who voted had all the facts, or the perspective that Diablo and I have on the whole affair.

Free M429s and .357s are not reasonable but a map change is. People have logical arguments and I think you and DIABLO are just being bias about the whole map and not seeing it from the player perspective.

You still haven't said WHY it's a bad idea to switch the map... And people don't need all the facts.... People vote on presidents without all the facts, they vote because they want the person (or map in this case).

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Citizen(s) :Shea Vegas - DEADPatrick Croke - Trying to start his own business and relaxing in his apartment.Loyalist(s) :Patrick Free - Slowly recovering from his insanity and he is starting to work at the CWU Goods Store and the Hospital again.Enslaved Biotic(s) :Combine(s) :CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.Anti-citizen(s) : Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.

Well, I know for a fact few(if any)have any idea how it looks from our perspective. Otherwise, there might be a little less blindly favoring i17 just because it's new and shiny.

____________________RP Characters:Citizen:Steven Davis-UNKNOWN-[STATUS UNKNOWN]New Union:NU-UCM-HC-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.Resistance:Nick Bradford-Alive-Hiding out in a cave

Former Supreme Military Commander of The CrewFounder of The Event Horizon, that we may rise from the ashes.High Command at Flux Theorem, that the story might continue in ways that are new and yet so similar.

Citizen(s) :Shea Vegas - DEADPatrick Croke - Trying to start his own business and relaxing in his apartment.Loyalist(s) :Patrick Free - Slowly recovering from his insanity and he is starting to work at the CWU Goods Store and the Hospital again.Enslaved Biotic(s) :Combine(s) :CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.Anti-citizen(s) : Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.

Because we have yet to have a map switch that was even moderately successful in the longer term, except perhaps C45 2013, and even then that eventually degenerated into only rebels and CCA.

____________________RP Characters:Citizen:Steven Davis-UNKNOWN-[STATUS UNKNOWN]New Union:NU-UCM-HC-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.Resistance:Nick Bradford-Alive-Hiding out in a cave

Former Supreme Military Commander of The CrewFounder of The Event Horizon, that we may rise from the ashes.High Command at Flux Theorem, that the story might continue in ways that are new and yet so similar.

Citizen(s) :Shea Vegas - DEADPatrick Croke - Trying to start his own business and relaxing in his apartment.Loyalist(s) :Patrick Free - Slowly recovering from his insanity and he is starting to work at the CWU Goods Store and the Hospital again.Enslaved Biotic(s) :Combine(s) :CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.Anti-citizen(s) : Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.

When we went to City 8, there was little inherently wrong with the map itself, and yet no one here can say that went well. Sure, we had a REALLY temporary population boost, but then we died.

____________________RP Characters:Citizen:Steven Davis-UNKNOWN-[STATUS UNKNOWN]New Union:NU-UCM-HC-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.Resistance:Nick Bradford-Alive-Hiding out in a cave

Former Supreme Military Commander of The CrewFounder of The Event Horizon, that we may rise from the ashes.High Command at Flux Theorem, that the story might continue in ways that are new and yet so similar.

General Bravo wrote:When we went to City 8, there was little inherently wrong with the map itself, and yet no one here can say that went well. Sure, we had a REALLY temporary population boost, but then we died.

Again you have not answered my question, what is wrong with I17?

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Citizen(s) :Shea Vegas - DEADPatrick Croke - Trying to start his own business and relaxing in his apartment.Loyalist(s) :Patrick Free - Slowly recovering from his insanity and he is starting to work at the CWU Goods Store and the Hospital again.Enslaved Biotic(s) :Combine(s) :CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.Anti-citizen(s) : Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.

BetaThe whole setup of everything is based around the HL2 beta. And this isn't HL2 beta, with conscripts and child labor and Air Exchange and shit. This is HL2.

____________________RP Characters:Citizen:Steven Davis-UNKNOWN-[STATUS UNKNOWN]New Union:NU-UCM-HC-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.Resistance:Nick Bradford-Alive-Hiding out in a cave

Former Supreme Military Commander of The CrewFounder of The Event Horizon, that we may rise from the ashes.High Command at Flux Theorem, that the story might continue in ways that are new and yet so similar.

General Bravo wrote:Because we have yet to have a map switch that was even moderately successful in the longer term, except perhaps C45 2013, and even then that eventually degenerated into only rebels and CCA.

That was because of us doing stuff the way we did things, nothing wrong with the map by-itself.

General Bravo wrote:When we went to City 8, there was little inherently wrong with the map itself, and yet no one here can say that went well. Sure, we had a REALLY temporary population boost, but then we died.

Once again, that was us. Diablo left the server to his admins, which worked for awhile, then you guys dun goofed, people's Rebels died, which resulted in them leaving for irrational reasons. That and a tiny bit of it was blocking off portions of the map.

General Bravo wrote:BetaThe whole setup of everything is based around the HL2 beta. And this isn't HL2 beta, with conscripts and child labor and Air Exchange and shit. This is HL2.

TL;DR "Nothing other than my perspective on the map itself"

Slashraider wrote:Free M429s and .357s are not reasonable but a map change is. People have logical arguments and I think you and DIABLO are just being bias about the whole map and not seeing it from the player perspective.

You still haven't said WHY it's a bad idea to switch the map... And people don't need all the facts.... People vote on presidents without all the facts, they vote because they want the person (or map in this case).

Diablo and bravo aren't that much biased about the map change as opposed to being afraid of the consequences of one, their "Bias" against the map change is reasonable, looking at our history with map changes, I wouldn't be so excited to actually do it either. There's no need to say why a switch to I17 is bad, switching to I17 would be putting on a XLLLLLL pants and a Jacket made out of boulders, and everything being pitch black.

Nothing is wrong with the map, Slash. Stop acting like we are attacking your idea. It may have its Cannon issues, but we have plenty of those. (One reason why we arnt leaving C18 right there)

The problem that I see is that we are not 'ready' for a new map. We as in all of us. Me included. We are not ready to switch because we still have issues to solve. One of those issues is the fact that you cannot accept that I am putting down my fist on this decision. We are not changing maps until Bravo and I can agree we see no reason to stay here.

I would hope that you would trust us. After all, it seems like the population has been going up lately on C18. Does the map really matter? Or is it just what you guys want. Just you guys.

People want a nice polished game to play on. The map is just a bonus. No one goes into HL2RP and says "I came here because I love this map" NO. They come to see how well we can role play and how well they can role play with us. Try to figure out why people don't like our role play and leave, then we can switch maps.

Well, barring just giving half our players CCA whitelist and the other half rebel uniforms and equipment and just telling them to have at it, there really isn't any avoiding that. CitizenRP isn't going to be any more thrilling or exciting or epic than your average day-to-day life. If anything, it'd be less so than your real life because of all the Combine restrictions.

____________________RP Characters:Citizen:Steven Davis-UNKNOWN-[STATUS UNKNOWN]New Union:NU-UCM-HC-CmD.08292-Alive-Searching for APEX, hunting down the last surviving City 18 resistance members, and wiping out everyone who gets in his wayMuch has changed since days of old, but nothing changed what his mind holds.Resistance:Nick Bradford-Alive-Hiding out in a cave

Former Supreme Military Commander of The CrewFounder of The Event Horizon, that we may rise from the ashes.High Command at Flux Theorem, that the story might continue in ways that are new and yet so similar.

What we need to work on is getting the average player to keep their Citizen character for a longer amount of time than the current amount of time it takes for them to either leave or become a rebel/cca.

Its not bad to join sides, its encouraged. But we need to keep Plaza RP alive as much as possible. We know that our Events will soon get stale, like before. We just need to work harder on things Citizens can enjoy. Things they can take part in, or avoid, or be forced to take part in. But after letting them take part in something with you, you shouldn't ask them to join you, or follow you, or meet somewhere. It should end there. That citizen will go back to the Plaza now with the thirst for more. They will need to work to get it though, because how did they get it last time? RP'ing correctly to get there. Right? That's how it should be, am I right? CCA Units should just give points. Citizens will become loyalists after so long. That is something to work for. We should make Loyalists more likable and useful. Not so much giving them a new skin and a gun and calling it at that. But let them actually do something that affects RP, something needed by citizens or at least heavily wanted. Something that changes how Citizens will RP for X amount of time.

If we can get players to enjoy Citizen RP as much as Rebel RP, then I think we can change maps. If we have a big map, we should have a lot of players. Majority being Citizens. Rebels will hide, CCA will patrol, Citizens will roam.

To sum it all up. We need something for each class, something that abides by cannon, yet can allow that class to take part in an activity or simply something that changes how they RP, and that something should also be enjoyable for the player. What ever that is, it is out there. All we need to do is get a new map brain storm.

Well I posted my opinion in a topic that was deleted for some reason. I dont support the map change either (even though I can't even PLAY) but i've seen screenshots. Slash- there's nothing personal here if thats what you're thinking. The majority isn't always right. Look at america slash. The majority helped break everything. MAJORITY OBAMAMA MM GET DAT OBAMA PHONE HEALTH CARE OBAMACARE WELFARE WHATS A DEBT CEILING WHO CARESSS and now america is forever in debt. This has been said before- the majority is trying to get what it wants, the minority *bravo and diablo* are trying to provide what it NEEDS. Sure a pretty detailed big map is fun for a little while, but then it becomes second nature, quickly memorized, and people want more. Then they ask for addons and weapons and things become too complicated and people get bored and leave cause we aren't constantly adding MORE MORE MORE. We need a solid foundation, something we can always have fun with. If we learn to enjoy the basics (default hl2 weps, citizen/cwu/cca/rebel chars, c18 the most basic map ever) then we can experiment with the better ideas. Yeah this is coming from the guy with the "super overpowered" intricate rogue, but if lordy jesus ever lets me play gmod again, I won't be using phantom for a long time if ever. I just wanna get back in and develop a character mostly through speech. When you have a long forced break from hl2rp, you miss the ability to make your character talking and interact, something you cant do in generic shootemup games like battlefield, fallout, skyrim- etc. We need to learn to do that before building up and moving on.

____________________Dubwub is gey.Hipsters are gey.Emos are gey.Attention Whores are gey.Swag is gey.Yolo is gey.#SWAQYOLFKONY2013 is not gey.RK

General Bravo wrote:If the majority of the people said they wanted to be given free M249s and .357s on connect, with 3 boxes of ammo each and a head start on getting to D6, would you think we should go with that too?

Now your overthinking this. It's a map, not weapons and shit.

General Bravo wrote:Because we have yet to have a map switch that was even moderately successful in the longer term, except perhaps C45 2013, and even then that eventually degenerated into only rebels and CCA.

Maybe it degenerated to that because we let it?

General Bravo wrote:When we went to City 8, there was little inherently wrong with the map itself, and yet no one here can say that went well. Sure, we had a REALLY temporary population boost, but then we died.

Maybe because RebelRP was restricted hardcore, way beyond what was necessary?

General Bravo wrote:BetaThe whole setup of everything is based around the HL2 beta. And this isn't HL2 beta, with conscripts and child labor and Air Exchange and shit. This is HL2.

you know, there's this thing we can do about that, by not doing it maybe? We don't need child labor, or air exchange.

Whatever this is going to go nowhere, I might as well go argue with a thunderstorm.

____________________Admin of The Crew.Citizens:Steven Johnson - ALIVE - Spending his time inside his apartment.Duke Dastardly - ALIVE - Looking for an apartment in the CAH.CCA:CORE-DvL.38074 - ALIVE - Doing reports and keeping order.Resistance:Jim Tenma - ALIVE - Tying to find out what happened to Stacy.

"Anonymity brings that element of conflict to the surface. It corrupts. Turns good people horrible and horrible people into something unspeakable." - Arby, "Arby n' the Chief' By Jon Graham

DIABLO258 wrote:What we need to work on is getting the average player to keep their Citizen character for a longer amount of time than the current amount of time it takes for them to either leave or become a rebel/cca.

Its not bad to join sides, its encouraged. But we need to keep Plaza RP alive as much as possible. We know that our Events will soon get stale, like before. We just need to work harder on things Citizens can enjoy. Things they can take part in, or avoid, or be forced to take part in. But after letting them take part in something with you, you shouldn't ask them to join you, or follow you, or meet somewhere. It should end there. That citizen will go back to the Plaza now with the thirst for more. They will need to work to get it though, because how did they get it last time? RP'ing correctly to get there. Right? That's how it should be, am I right? CCA Units should just give points. Citizens will become loyalists after so long. That is something to work for. We should make Loyalists more likable and useful. Not so much giving them a new skin and a gun and calling it at that. But let them actually do something that affects RP, something needed by citizens or at least heavily wanted. Something that changes how Citizens will RP for X amount of time.

If we can get players to enjoy Citizen RP as much as Rebel RP, then I think we can change maps. If we have a big map, we should have a lot of players. Majority being Citizens. Rebels will hide, CCA will patrol, Citizens will roam.

To sum it all up. We need something for each class, something that abides by cannon, yet can allow that class to take part in an activity or simply something that changes how they RP, and that something should also be enjoyable for the player. What ever that is, it is out there. All we need to do is get a new map brain storm.

Well I understand why you don't want the map and I see where you're coming from but I17 has much more for citizen's to do.

City 18 feels empty because there is A LOT of open space... The only thing that citizen's can do is go to CAH when the shops are not open (they are not open that much) with I17 it is more compact and less open which feels like there is more to do not knowing what is around the corner instead of being able to see everything thats going on like how you can see in City 18. In I17 there are more CAHs, hotels, shops, warehouses, and so much more which citizens can do. There are by far more shops where citizens can work, buy, sell, etc. It will making citizen RP much more fun than it is now. Isn't that what we want?

And can we talk about working elevators? I mean c'mon who doesn't want to RP in a elevator??

Edit: Also the citizens are stuck, they cannot do anything, they are watched at all times by the CCA because it is so open. In I17 it is random, there are hotels, people could be hotel managers, bellboys, etc. There are dark allies, anything could go down. You are not being watched constantly so you may be attacked or mugged, and you are always worried. The reason people only get on CCA or rebels on City 18 because CCA can see everything, citizens have no space, thats why they go to the CAH and hide. Rebels have the slums which are not as open and you have more freedom and CCA well do CCA things. This isn't about getting population, this is about increasing it and MAKING CITIZEN RP SO MUCH BETTER. Isn't this what you want all along?

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Citizen(s) :Shea Vegas - DEADPatrick Croke - Trying to start his own business and relaxing in his apartment.Loyalist(s) :Patrick Free - Slowly recovering from his insanity and he is starting to work at the CWU Goods Store and the Hospital again.Enslaved Biotic(s) :Combine(s) :CCA-C45-S2-GHOST-EpU.32789 - Bringing the GHOST division back to life.Anti-citizen(s) : Lucy "Hera" Dellgott - Helping Jenny run the Resistance and maintaining the medical division in the Lambda.

I agree 100% with Slash. I17 is a versitile map and can be used by ALL stereotypes of RP. The nexus is huge, and would allow great RP for CCA. The slums are of good size and have awesome hiding places and alot of dead ends for people to RP in. The area for citizens at general has tonnes of space for RP.The map is great, I don't know why we aren't switching.

Never seen the map I don't think, possible screenshots? Guys, give DIABLO some time, he'll try to give us what we want when he can. We can't just force him to. I just want to see the map and see if it's decent... I feel the current map is... Rather dull?

I'm going to lock this thread. Bravo and I came to a conclusion a long time ago. This is just one of those polls that gets over written by the Owner, you guys.

As for when we change maps, the time will come.

We don't need a bigger map, even if it brings "Better RP", because with out current population we would never be able to fit enough people in there without the map looking empty and boring! We need more people and better RP to start with!