Thoughts on innovative controllers

As we all know Nintendo revolutionized the mechanics of how to control games with their Wii. Sony and Microsoft soon entered the "innovation race" with significantly less successful results. New methods of controlling games seems like a popular thing among developers and I am not convinced it's being done the right way.

Don't get me wrong, I love innovation and I would not like to see the video game industry stagnate. But... Just consider the Wii controller. Sure it offers some great ways of playing in certain games, but in some games you just kind of wish that you were playing with something less innovative (like a normal controller). That's actually the problem. If a system has a great new controller, every game for the console must be developed with the controller in mind. Instead of "Look what a cool idea I have for a game", it is "Look they have a cool controller, lets develop something for it". It's the controller itself that dictates the ideas, not great ideas for a new great game.

Why instead not make it easier for third party developers to make their own controllers? Think about how Guitar Hero did it. They had their own controller which played their game really well, in a way that a normal controller (or the Wii controller) never could have accomplished.

My point is that too much emphasis is put on the controller that Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft supplies, which no matter how innovative they are always carry some limitations to them. It should not be a question about who develops the most suitable game for the controller, but who develops the greatest game. If that game then can't be played in the way the developers want on the system they're developing it for, then make your own controller. I am actually really hoping for more game franchises that do something similar to what Guitar Hero did. Maybe not a guitar, maybe a gun or a staff or whatever.

We've been driving cars using steering wheels since they were invented. Why? Because it's the best damn way to drive a car. Same with the gamepad. I'm one lazy ass mutherfucker. I want to lay down in front of my TV and not move a muscle other than the ones in my hands (I occasionally move around some to keep the circulation going - don't want to get a blood clot). For that, the gamepad is fucking perfect (joysticks were always wearing out - they sucked).

We've been driving cars using steering wheels since they were invented. Why? Because it's the best damn way to drive a car. Same with the gamepad. I'm one lazy ass mutherfucker. I want to lay down in front of my TV and not move a muscle other than the ones in hands (I occasionally move around some to keep the circulation going - don't want to get a blood clot). For that, the gamepad is fucking perfect (joysticks were always wearing out - they sucked).

We've been driving cars using steering wheels since they were invented. Why? Because it's the best damn way to drive a car. Same with the gamepad. I'm one lazy ass mutherfucker. I want to lay down in front of my TV and not move a muscle other than the ones in hands (I occasionally move around some to keep the circulation going - don't want to get a blood clot). For that, the gamepad is fucking perfect (joysticks were always wearing out - they sucked).

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So if we take the guitar hero example again. Would you prefer to play that sort of game with a normal controller? You might not like the game itself and that's cool, but anyway try to imagine yourself playing it with both a controller and the plastic guitar.

I'm no saying that every game needs a specific controller. I however don't like when you're trying to develop a game based on how the controller looks.

What I don't want? To have top pay $100 a game and have a pile full of special controllers that only work for one game each.

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Which shouldn't be needed with your everyday FPS. The amount of truly innovative games each gen is limited. Lets take a look at the Wii controller. Yeah it works well with a few games, better than a standard controller. However, it does not work as well on your everyday game as a standard controller.

My criticism is actually mostly pointed at Nintendo, since I think that most games works best with a normal controller, but if someone makes a truly innovative game, they could instead supply their own controller.

I'm always for progress. It's like everyone who's shitting on Windows 8 before actually using it properly. Now, not all progress is quality, but at least things change and grow. It's like how Apple changes their shit, and then stands relatively still for the next several years letting everyone else catch up and surpass until Apple jumps ahead again. This is how technology works, and I hope to god it never changes. Consolidation is stagnation.

Some people just hate change, and will die lonely. It happens, life goes on.

I have a problem when companies put out half baked technology that doesn't really work the way it should.
The Wii, especially before motionplus was extremely unreliable compared with a traditional controller. Kinnect is an awful beta being foisted on the public, which could have been a lot better had Microsoft not removed the Kinnect's onboard processor. iOS on the other hand has been a really interesting development scene watching developers take an already pretty elegant controlscheme for general purpose and adapt it for games.

We've been driving cars using steering wheels since they were invented. Why? Because it's the best damn way to drive a car. Same with the gamepad. I'm one lazy ass mutherfucker. I want to lay down in front of my TV and not move a muscle other than the ones in my hands (I occasionally move around some to keep the circulation going - don't want to get a blood clot). For that, the gamepad is fucking perfect (joysticks were always wearing out - they sucked).

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I don't think gamepads really are the best, they're just the most broadly good enough. For an RTS or a MMO gamepads are utter shit. For a flight sim they're very weak compared with a joystick. For a fighting game they're usually considered sub-optimal compared to an arcade stick. Some racing games are gamepad centric some are wheel centric. We could hold a month long symposium on shooters where they fall, personally i prefer a gamepad but i understand the mouse and keyboard people.

I mean make no mistake most of the attempts to supplant, or supplement the gamepad this generation have been garbage but it's not like a gamepad is some end-all be-all method of controlling stuff. It's merely good enough, except for a handful of PC centric genres where it's not even good enough.

The only controls needed for your everyday FPS are a mouse and keyboard.

@sdevito has a point though. Controllers don't tend to be cheap. It's unlikely that third party developers will work together to create controllers that work across multiple games, and I certainly can't imagine any of them making games designed for other third parties' controllers. So the end result would be the occasional overpriced game that comes with its own controller that you use for one game (or series of games) and nothing else.

The only controls needed for your everyday FPS are a mouse and keyboard.

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The only part of your post I didn't like is this. I can't stand the keyboard and mouse combo, mainly just because I guess I don't like laying my hands flat to play a game at all times. I know that's kind of nitpicky, but I just don't enjoy games as much outside of the dual analog setting.

But I'm actually a huge supporter of innovative controls like what the Wii tried to do. It was something different, which gave me a reason to buy the console and have a totally different experience than what I'd have on a PS3 or 360 with more traditional controls. It was neat for its time, but kind of gimmicky in that it's mostly just WAGGLAN until something happens. People can do most of the things required in those games while sitting down and waving their arms frantically.

The Wii U's biggest downfall, even though I'm getting it, is that the GamePad isn't going to truly innovate the gaming world. It's a second-screen experience, sure, but it's kind of been done before, in a lesser extent with the GBA connection cable for the GameCube. Most of what we're going to see is slightly altered derivatives of games that exist on other consoles, and as soon as Microsoft and Sony release their new consoles, we're going to see nothing more than watered-down ports because the Wii U can't be expected to compete.

I'd love for more innovation and such in new kinds of controllers, but as someone who owns a ton of those, and has every obscure controller the Dreamcast hosted, I just know it's not possible. I have a fishing controller, keyboard, microphone, two light guns, and even goddamned MARACAS that take up a bunch of space in my house, and really are only useful for one game. That's not including my peripherals for the Saturn, SNES, NES, an entire Rock Band set, and that 72 button controller that came with Steel Battalion that's been sitting in my gameroom ever since I moved in because I have nowhere to put it.

Tons of additional controllers and peripherals just aren't functional in most cases, and a game really has to hit the mainstream like Guitar Hero to make anything like that profitable for the company. Ultimately, I wish each of the big three companies, or whoever wants to throw themselves into the ring, created an innovative experience unlike the others, rather than a console that packages the same games.

@Solar7 The gamepad is innovative enough that you can access various features on it WITHOUT the use of your TV. Being able to pick, choose and watch stuff on Netflix, play games on it and be able to take that to any place of your home? That is pretty cool in my opinion. Plus it isn't just for maps or choosing items, but controlling your character and looking around the environment too (as seen in some Nintendoland games).

I've never played a FPS with a keyboard or mouse, I have always played them with a regular controller and see no problem with it. I admit that with Metroid Prime 3, which you need a Wii remote, proved to be pretty good so I'm not ruling out the fact that playing it with a mouse can improve your experience (but the idea of playing with a keyboard still doesn't intrigue me).

The gamepad is innovative enough that you can access various features on it WITHOUT the use of your TV. Being able to pick, choose and watch stuff on Netflix, play games on it and be able to take that to any place of your home? That is pretty cool in my opinion. Plus it isn't just for maps or choosing items, but controlling your character and looking around the environment too (as seen in some Nintendoland games).

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Sony tried nearly the same thing Nintendo is doing now with the PSP and PS3. It didn't catch on.

The gamepad is innovative enough that you can access various features on it WITHOUT the use of your TV. Being able to pick, choose and watch stuff on Netflix, play games on it and be able to take that to any place of your home? That is pretty cool in my opinion. Plus it isn't just for maps or choosing items, but controlling your character and looking around the environment too (as seen in some Nintendoland games).

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Sony tried nearly the same thing Nintendo is doing now with the PSP and PS3. It didn't catch on.

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It was really different with the PS3 and PSP. also the PSP is a handheld, not the controller that comes packed in with a consoles. No ones going to buy a 250 dollar handheld with few Good games for pretty limited functionality in a limited number of games.

also I don't remember the PS3 streaming PS3 games to PSP so that you can play the PS3 game on your PSP in another room. PSN/PS1 games yeah, but nothing besides that.

Actually, thanks to kiera, I'm gonna try to play SWTOR with the Xbox controller now.

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I know a bunch of people who play things like AssCreed on PC with controllers, and that makes perfect sense to me. I can't imagine Bayonetta without a controller any more than I can imagine Left 4 Dead without a mouse.

Actually, thanks to kiera, I'm gonna try to play SWTOR with the Xbox controller now.

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I know a bunch of people who play things like AssCreed on PC with controllers, and that makes perfect sense to me. I can't imagine Bayonetta without a controller any more than I can imagine Left 4 Dead without a mouse.

I play Assassin's Creed, Dark Souls, and Jade Empire with a controller on my computer. Most of the rest of my games I play with a keyboard and mouse. My mid range laptop also runs the vast majority if not all of the games out there right now. I have yet to try it with Whitcher 2 or Skyrim, though.

This thread makes me want to go back to playing some old school FPS's that I installed last week. It's obvious my Sunday is now Unreal Tournament (instagib servers of course) and Jedi Knight II day.

good point though kiera, there are some things in some games I just can't imagine doing any other way. I'm too set in my ways. Battlefield started me off with an odd scheme that worked best for me, and I've stuck with it for over 10 years. WASD/mouse setup for normal playing, but when I'm flying a plane or chopper I HAVE to use something like a 360 controller, or earlier on, my Logitech flight pro gamepad.

Now, that's certainly due in part because I was flying real, full-size airplanes before I was playing battlefield, and R/C airplanes with a dual joy-stick setup long before that. I just gotta have my analog control for some things....while the keyboard/mouse is certainly superior in other situations.

I've never really messed with sticks too much....how do you use the rudder? buttons on the base?

I have a pretty sweet flight yoke that clamps to your desk, with some rudder pedals. they're super sturdy, but so old school they use a serial gamepad port....they kick ass but I'll only pull out that setup for a flight sim. And it's been like 5 years since I last played one of those. I learned that the only thing they simulate well is the most boring parts of flying.

a flight stick is definitely more realistic than a gamepad, but i've always loved using a pad with two joysticks and four shoulder buttons. I set it up kinda like an R/C transmitter, throttle on the left stick and aileron/elevator (roll/pitch) on the right. two shoulder buttons/triggers for rudder and the others for machine guns and bombs. the remaining face buttons for slower functions like reverse view, change view, etc.

But The gamecube controller is still my favorite controller ever. that and the Dreamcast controller.

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Never used a dreamcast controller

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I used some dreamcast controllers at a friend's house. They were clunky and weird with only one analog stick and a big slot in the middle for the (cool concept) lcd game/memory unit thing. They had microphones for seaman (that you wore on your head!) and extenders for fishing games. I'm guessing either the NES style d-pad was really sweet or it's nostalgia (it did have some sweet games and forward thinking features) that drives the love of that particular device.

I would say the original X-box controller S was and still is best in it's new incarnation but my dad really preferred the big, clunky original Xbox monster controller.

IRTT

The Wii-mote was a decent gimmick, and I did have fun with Madworld, No More Heroes and the Bleach games on Wii though it lacked 1:1 movement accuracy and could err wildly if turned slightly. As a base concept it was a great idea, although it's like had been seen in arcade cabinets for years (Blade of Honor comes to mind).

So bringing it home was innovative, but not creation and the execution was far from perfect with Nintendo eventually selling a new, and more accurate sensor bar 2.0 (which still had room to go).

1:1 movement is what's missing from all of these "kinetic" controllers. Kinect calibration helps somewhat, but moving too far from you original location puts you back at square one.

I will continue to be a technology and gadget booster but I must admit, you can't beat the tried and true classics. As far as mouse and keyboard go, they're great but there are times when I'd rather just use a controller and avoid having to hunch over a desk/table top with my arms spread apart and craned forward... controllers are also a lot easier on the wrists.

But The gamecube controller is still my favorite controller ever. that and the Dreamcast controller.

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Never used a dreamcast controller

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I used some dreamcast controllers at a friend's house. They were clunky and weird with only one analog stick and a big slot in the middle for the (cool concept) lcd game/memory unit thing. They had microphones for seaman (that you wore on your head!) and extenders for fishing games. I'm guessing either the NES style d-pad was really sweet or it's nostalgia (it did have some sweet games and forward thinking features) that drives the love of that particular device.

I would say the original X-box controller S was and still is best in it's new incarnation but my dad really preferred the big, clunky original Xbox monster controller.

IRTT

The Wii-mote was a decent gimmick, and I did have fun with Madworld, No More Heroes and the Bleach games on Wii though it lacked 1:1 movement accuracy and could err wildly if turned slightly. As a base concept it was a great idea, although it's like had been seen in arcade cabinets for years (Blade of Honor comes to mind).

So bringing it home was innovative, but not creation and the execution was far from perfect with Nintendo eventually selling a new, and more accurate sensor bar 2.0 (which still had room to go).

1:1 movement is what's missing from all of these "kinetic" controllers. Kinect calibration helps somewhat, but moving too far from you original location puts you back at square one.

I will continue to be a technology and gadget booster but I must admit, you can't beat the tried and true classics. As far as mouse and keyboard go, they're great but there are times when I'd rather just use a controller and avoid having to hunch over a desk/table top with my arms spread apart and craned forward... controllers are also a lot easier on the wrists.

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I really liked the Wiimote for games like Wii sports/resort and mario galaxy. Showed off great potential that did not meet its full potential but with Wii u maybe the Wiimote does not have to go away just yet.

I have a pretty sweet flight yoke that clamps to your desk, with some rudder pedals. they're super sturdy, but so old school they use a serial gamepad port....they kick ass but I'll only pull out that setup for a flight sim. And it's been like 5 years since I last played one of those. I learned that the only thing they simulate well is the most boring parts of flying.

a flight stick is definitely more realistic than a gamepad, but i've always loved using a pad with two joysticks and four shoulder buttons. I set it up kinda like an R/C transmitter, throttle on the left stick and aileron/elevator (roll/pitch) on the right. two shoulder buttons/triggers for rudder and the others for machine guns and bombs. the remaining face buttons for slower functions like reverse view, change view, etc.

I've played keyboard and mouse and dual-analog for FPSs, still feel awkward to me.

But the Wiimote point-and-shoot just clicked right away for me, and is the only way I can really enjoy shooting in games. It's my favorite way to play any kind of shooter, Metroid, Conduit, Sin & Punishment, or otherwise, and I wish they'd make more good shooters compatible with it.

In fact, the IR pointer is what I'd consider the number one most enjoyable innovation about this previous generation, and I just really really wish it isn't abandoned in the core genres. It has so many uses, beyond shooting, just being a selecter or a way to interact with the environment in a game better. Like being able to simultaneously use a traditional analog stick and buttons as well as a mouse cursor in the same game, seemlessly.

I don't even give a shit about the motion (and personally I think we can do without it), it's the pointer/IR that's where it's all at.

Of course, the GC controller is still best controller for SSB and games that require traditional controls. Wavebird motherfuckers.

What, you can afford a console but can't afford to spend twenty dollars on a cheap USB keyboard and mouse to plug into it?

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No, I can't afford the $$$$ for a new motherboard, power supply, video card (that may crap out), the faster-than-DSL broadband, and the scores of other things that may break or "go bad", not to mention the time and effort to search for a suitable solution to some hardware conflict crisis when a new game is launched.

No, I can't afford the $$$$ for a new motherboard, power supply, video card (that may crap out), the faster-than-DSL broadband, and the scores of other things that may break or "go bad", not to mention the time and effort to search for a suitable solution to some hardware conflict crisis when a new game is launched.

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Are you being intentionally obtuse, or are you too technologically incompetent to understand me when I say you can plug a mouse and keyboard into your console? There are several different converters on the market that let you do this even for games that don't explicitly support mouse/keyboard controls.

are you too technologically incompetent to understand me when I say you can plug a mouse and keyboard into your console? There are several different converters on the market that let you do this even for games that don't explicitly support mouse/keyboard controls.

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Depending on the game, kb/m may not be supported.

As for the after-market converters, I $pent my share on them back then. I decided I was happier with my money

KB/M is fine for genres like RTS and gallery shooting, but to engage fine/smooth control over a character's pan/zoom. Besides, this is where devs engaged in some enhancements on their own. "Aim snap" is essentially limited/gimped aim-botting. It works fine for COD's various campaigns (and incidentally, Far Cry 3's SP and Co-Op campaign).