Sunday, November 01, 2009

Tories Within 5 Votes Of Repealing Gun Registry

NDP MP Niki Ashton has now officially gone over to the dark side. According to the Coalition For Gun Control, there were three NDP and one Liberal in support of Conservative MP Candace Hoeppner’s Private Member’s Bill C-391 as of late September. So now we have four. If Anthony Rotaisn't the Liberal the CGC was thinking of, then the Tories are within four votes of the Bill's passing 2nd reading on November 4th.

You want to seal a Harper majority, then let Bill C-391 pass. Tories will get a two % bump as supporters angry with them over whatever return to the fold; Libs will lose similarly as people wonder what use the party is anymore. I don't know what will happen to the NDP; they may be able to justify the move with reference to Hegel's dialectic.

You can add Nickel Belt MP Claude Gravelle to the blood on their hands crowd I'm told.

The irony of all this is that the Tories will run against these New Democrats and Liberals as the party that repealed the gun registry. Their adds will point to Layton, Ignatieff and the Bloc's coalition to keep the gun registry.

The the Tories already have all of the anti-gun registry as the ballot question vote. That's not going to change with this vote.

So why would opposition MPs support a measure that (a) the Tories will use as a club in the next election against those very MPs; (b) will cost them support from supporters - especially women worried about domestic violence in their or their friends' home; and (c) have, as a consequence more hidden guns and more dead women and children killed in their homes?

if those MP's break from their party to support their local citizens they will inform their voters in the riding.

The CPC are correct to inform us Urban MP from the other parties are blocking "real reform" and prefer to play games in legislation.

They prefer to go in camera and hide their flip flops.

I am told crime is going down and we are safe, why are we asking the farmers and hunters to pay and support a make work program to make you feel safe about a problem that does NOT exist?

Or do we have a crime problem?

Are those illegal guns from the US being brought into Canada from farmers and hunters in Canada?

Are those criminal gangs who using those illegal gun going to use a registry?

Focus is a serious problem for the left.

Stop blaming rural Canadians for a small organized criminal activity in large urban centres.

Tax residents in large urban centres where "guns" are used in violence.

Won't be difficult to pull those stats, I look forward to an Urban MP propose a $ 50 tax on each city dweller to help register guns in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and signs reminding residents to register their guns.

With respect BCL, I'd argue that you have it exactly backwards. The Cons keep the rural grassroots fired up by saying people have to keep donating/voting so that they'll be able to repeal the gun registry - take away the target, and I suspect a lot of that support will start to erode.

Which is why the Cons are pushing the repeal as a private members' bill which takes a longer, more circuitous route to pass rather than as government legislation: they'd rather see an election before the bill passes than actually throw away one of their main motivators.

take away the target, and I suspect a lot of that support will start to erode.

I'll believe that when I see it. It doesn't take much to keep the rural voters fired up...any issue will do, really. The Conservatives manufacture them all the time. If they can be fired up over their right to shoot critters, anything is possible. In the past, the Conservatives have used the conflict in the Middle East, for example; an issue more remote from the lives of rural Canadians one can scarcely imagine.

But it is heartening to see the NDP uphold the ideal of the rational voter though. Clarity is indeed an advantage for those unburdened by the expectation of ever having to govern a large and diverse country.

The Cons keep the rural grassroots fired up by saying people have to keep donating/voting so that they'll be able to repeal the gun registry - take away the target, and I suspect a lot of that support will start to erode.

In addition to what Ti-Guy said is the unmistakeable fact that the gun registry is just the beginning of the effort to dismantle Canada's gun control laws. If conservatives are successful they'll just move on to the next phase. So keeping the registry actually acts as a guard protecting those other laws.

Hmmm....can the long gun supporters guarantee that a farmer and/or hunter won't get stressed out, drunk and have a domestic problem and not shoot someone - the cops called in without knowing if they have a weapon?

A neighbour of my dad a few years ago - avid hunter, farmer had a jealousy problem. He shot his wife. She was innocent of any of his jealous claims about her - she's dead.

Yup - register your dog, your house, your car....but not a weapon.

You know, with all the H1N1 issues, Afghan war, global economics, etc. - how important is the gun registry? It's important to Harper to try to change the channel on the failure of the important issues.

Hmmm....can the long gun supporters guarantee that a farmer and/or hunter won't get stressed out, drunk and have a domestic problem and not shoot someone - the cops called in without knowing if they have a weapon?

I was looking a while back for a breadown on gun homicide/suicide/violence in Canada to get a sense of which types of guns are doing what to whom and in what context, but then remembered that homicide rates in Canada are the highest in areas of greatest gun enthusiasm. Coincidence? I think not.

The registry is not only a tool for the police but sends these people a clear message...your gun is a privilege. Use it wisely, or we *will* pry it from your hands, dead and cold, if need be. If you don't like that, then move to Alabama.

If those farmers and hunters are NOT in compliance with registering and paying the fees, the Gun Registry sends them?

http://www.lufa.ca/quickfacts.asp

Contrary to what the Liberal government and the media have been telling you for the last five years, the police do not support the mandatory registration of between 7 and 20 million legally owned rifles and shotguns. The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police supports the government’s ill-conceived plan but not all Chiefs of Police support it, nor do the majority of police under their command. The Canadian Police Association (CPA) supports the government’s billion-dollar boondoggle but not the majority of police officers whose views they are supposed to represent.

Every poll ever taken of front-line police officers shows opposition ranges between 75% and 100%. For example, 100% of the 19 police chiefs in the Province of Saskatchewan are opposed to registry, 91% of the serving RCMP officers in Saskatchewan are opposed, as are 76% of the members of the Saskatchewan Federation of Police Officers. http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/990628.html

"The RCMP investigated 88,162 actual violent crimes during 1993, where only 73 of these offences, or 0.08 per cent, involved firearms." In 1996, Statistics Canada reported in Canadian Crime Statistics that there were a total of 291,437 crimes of violence. Of this total, there were 121,291 violent incidents where weapons were involved but only 6,375, or just 2.2%, that involved firearms. Of the violent offences where firearms were involved, 74.9% involved handguns [almost all unregistered] and only 6.9% involved rifles and shotguns.

Wow - relying on quotes from a 10 year old article to prove your point?

Surely, if the majority of rank and file police believe we should scrap the registry. Breitkruz could produce a poll taken this decade at least. Instead he relies on anecdotal evidence.

You are going to have to do better than that if you want to prove your point.

In any event, this:

"Introducing a single story does not dispute the facts this registry why and when it was introduced, it is simply bad policy."

is actually an opinion. You might want to learn the difference between the two.

Registering your gun is no different than registering your car, or your dog, both of which costs you money.

The government knows where I live, where I work, how much I make, the name and occupation of my husband, which political party I donate to and which charities I support. They also have access to my medical information, how many times I go to see the doctor, and what medications are prescribed.

They know I have a dog. They know we have two motor vehicles in our family.

If I owned a gun they would know that too.

If the government were truly concerned about the safety of its citizens there would be no questioning the value of a gun registry.

In Alberta the most corrupt provincial government right? You may have E-health records, not sure bringing that up in Ontario holds any water....(hint bad comparison)

Ignorance is bliss and the lack of hysteria and misinformation about the long gun registry is EPIC.

Since 2006 the CPC have STOPPED collecting the fees!

The LG Registry has NOTHING to do with public safety. Repeating a myth, will not change why it was introduced.

Repeating this "lie" will not stand up in Rural Canada.

How many rural ridings do the Liberals currently hold?

An article from 1, 2, 10 years ago if truthful is no longer valid in your mind. Does that mean all your evidence for AGW is no longer valid? (another example of faulty logic on my use that article)

The LG registry is not working and as long as the CPC are voted for they will NOT allow those millions of law abiding citizens to be used as a scapegoat by the media and the apologists in support of bad policy.

Crime is down than connect the dots.

Best of luck Gayle with your dog ownership story. Most of us believe you own cats and many of them.

Urban cities are more than welcome to post signs about the regulations and laws pertaining to lawful gun ownership.

Don't forget to ask those criminals to keep submitting their applications.

"Crime is down despite the hysteria from Liberals who demand we need to have more taxes on law abiding citizens."

Great. Now can you please send a letter to the conservatives advising them of same. You see, the money that we are about to spend on the pointless "tough on crime" agenda is going to dwarf that spent on the registry.

By even the most conservative of estimates, costs will go up. Why? Well most people who can perform simple mathematical equations understand that if you put more people in jail for longer periods of time, you are going to have to spend more on those people. Even though crime is going down, the CPC plan will put more people in jail. That is the entire raison d'etre of their program. I am surprised you missed that point.

"Invent criminals to house, have the police lock up more people for a make work project?"

Yes, they are doing this. The more things you criminalize, the more criminals you are going to have. Basic math again.

How about Peter Van Loan (although he will not tell us how much it will go up).

Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan, who is responsible for Correctional Service Canada, said this month that the government is in fact preparing for more inmates. The service's budget for prison infrastructure has doubled since 2006 when the Conservatives took office.Mr. Van Loan has said the government has internal estimates showing the expected rise in prison inmates that will be attributed to each new measure, but is declining to make those figures public.