posted at 7:29 pm on June 13, 2008 by Allahpundit

By a 63% to 28% margin, voters continue to believe it is more important to gain control of the border than to resolve the status of those who are already in the country illegally. Democrats are more evenly divided than other voters, but a plurality (49%) agree that controlling the border is the top priority…

Another factor fueling the anger over immigration is the belief that most government officials encourage immigrants to retain the culture of their home country. Overall, 43% of Americans believe this to be true while 32% disagree and believe most officials encourage immigrants to fully embrace American culture. Among those who are angry about immigration, 59% believe most government officials encourage immigrants to retain their home country culture.

Also, please note: 83% are angry at the government versus only 12% at illegals, and Republicans are actually slightly more inclined than Democrats to support a welcoming policy allowing anyone to move to the U.S. except criminals, “national security threats,” and people who can’t support themselves. Just a little factoid to file away for the next time Geraldo warns us of the anti-Latino pogroms or whatever that conservatives are forever supposedly plotting.

He added: “I believe we have to secure our borders, and I think most Americans agree with that, because it’s a matter of national security. But we must enact comprehensive immigration reform.

Granted, not a ringing endorsement, but not quite reneging either.

You don’t have to convince me that McCain sucks on immigration.

But try to imagine the jack-assery that a newly-empowered Obama with whatever mandate he will claim will push for and likely get from Congress. Do you think he’ll even bother with a fence? Or a pretense (at enforcement)?

Its not unrealistic, except politically. It could be very easily done in the practical sense.

aengus on June 13, 2008 at 10:25 PM

I agree, it’s possible but not politically likely… but it also isn’t at all necessary. Historically when nations have told foreign nationals that they are no longer welcome or have placed too many demands on them, they leave, (assuming they haven’t already achieved sufficient numbers that may lead them to believe they can overcome any attempts to force the issue).

German settlers left Czechoslovakia when they were told to after WWII and there was very little trouble that I’m aware of. My ancestors, German settlers in Odessa, Russia, (on the Black Sea in what is now the Ukraine), moved to the area at the invitation of a czar, but when they were later told that they would have to join the official state church and be conscripted into the Russian military, many of them left and came to America instead.

Like electricity, people naturally tend to to take the path of least resistance.

Illegal aliens have reportedly been leaving areas where local jurisdictions have passed various laws making work and entitlements more difficult for illegal aliens to obtain.

It won’t require anything remotely approaching a monumental effort to re-establish our nations sovereignty and could be done in a very short period and in an entirely humane, ethical way. We simply have to put an end the magnets that draw them and keep them here. We don’t even need a double wall; all we need is employment verification and enforcement, which is entirely reasonable and achievable.

Like electricity, people naturally tend to to take the path of least resistance.

Illegal aliens have reportedly been leaving areas where local jurisdictions have passed various laws making work and entitlements more difficult for illegal aliens to obtain.

It won’t require anything remotely approaching a monumental effort to re-establish our nations sovereignty and could be done in a very short period and in an entirely humane, ethical way. We simply have to put an end the magnets that draw them and keep them here. We don’t even need a double wall; all we need is employment verification and enforcement, which is entirely reasonable and achievable.

He added: “I believe we have to secure our borders, and I think most Americans agree with that, because it’s a matter of national security. But we must enact comprehensive immigration reform.

Yeah, the ‘least sucky’ is a horrible criterion, but there it is.

hillbillyjim on June 13, 2008 at 10:50 PM

I respect your position and don’t want to belabor the point too much since that was a different thread, but notice in the quote you referenced that McCain doesn’t say he’d secure the border first anymore, he’s back to just plain comprehensive immigration reform…

So he’s reneged on the security first rhetoric and rather wants to include security provisions as part of the overall comprehensive package—just like they had originally planned to do with Shamnesty. The reason nobody believed them is because these amnesties always include provisions for security but they are never implemented. It’s a ruse. If they meant “security first”, then security would actually come first, but since they don’t actually want to end illegal immigration, just score an amnesty, they’re never going to voluntarily do it in that order. In fact they would rather stick with the status quo than ever implement any effective security.

If they meant “security first”, then security would actually come first, but since they don’t actually want to end illegal immigration, just score an amnesty, they’re never going to voluntarily do it in that order. In fact they would rather stick with the status quo than ever implement any effective security.

FloatingRock on June 13, 2008 at 11:12 PM

One BIG reason why they continually fight against a cost-effective, double-layered, razor-wired fence. It’s still necessary and they know IT WILL WORK!!

Limerick:FloatingRock for VP,hey the rules state,you can
only nominate someone,only on the convention
floor with both said people!

You wrote the rules in a stuper,you’ll have to
get Entelechy to amend the rules!

But,then again you wrote the rules,and according
to the rules,Entelechy can only amend the rules
with(you)and the nominee(FloatingRock),and the
amender(Entelechy)on the Convention floor while
everyone is physically standing on said floor!

Not as bad as the Liberal system,but egads,I’m
bringing this up at the next convention!

flenser, you must, you must believe this – on immigration, amnesty/shamnesty, the legal status, etc. we agree 100%!!!

hillbillyjim and Limerick, with this

I’ll pass. Shamesty or amnesty, CFR or no CFR, I’ll spend my money and use my efforts to fix the flat tire and not wait on that shiney new sports coupe to get me out of the desert.

Hammer away.

Limerick on June 13, 2008 at 9:09 PM

I’m with both of you. There’s also the SCOTUS. The next 4-8 years can have 2-3-4 of them retie, get ill, die,…

misterpeasea, got your note and we’ll continue to observe and talk, but don’t go very far away. Much will happen between now and Nov. It’s a loooong time.

On immigration/amnesty – I don’t understand for the life of me why so many of us focus so much energy on the border, exclusively, when the number one issue is what flenser rightly identified as the illegality of hiring anyone who’s here illegally.

Not respecting our current laws, by all, the politicians, employers, lobbyists, department of labor, commerce departments, etc. is the crux of it all. If the steak is removed the wasps will go away. This should be the driving issue number one, followed by the fence. Whatever fence gets built it will never solve the problem by itself.

We don’t have to pay for illegal aliens to be deported, or to line up buses for thousands of miles end-to-end as George Will said last year. Most illegal aliens can and will leave when our government strenuously enforces the laws that are already on the books. They allegedly all came here to work for better wages than they had in their home countries, primarily Mexico. If they paid their way here on Mexican wages, and have made much higher wages here, then logic dictates that they can, with all of their American dollars, pay their way back. It happened under Eisenhower, but that was a different time when PC (political cowardess) didn’t exist.

We do everything in our power to see that McCain keeps his promise to secure the borders first

Hmm, I think I’ll do everything in my power to stop him being elected instead.I’m not interested in his promise to secure the borders first. It’s not nearly good enough, even in the unlikely event he keeps it. Amnesty is the problem, and he’s as fixated on that as Bush is.

We do everything in our power to see that McCain keeps his promise to secure the borders first

Please don’t be fooled. Check the youtubes on McCain in the debates and on the Sunday talk shows.

(I paraphrase) ” Americans want the borders secure. I will have the governors of the border states certify that the borders are secure. Then we can begin comprehensive immigration reform.”

Thus, he abdicates HIS job of securing the borders and has someone to blame when it is pointed out that they are not secure. “Looky, folks! The governors wrote on pieces of paper that the borders are secure! Whew! Now that that’s done, on to amnesty!”

Any amnesty bill under McCain would be tempered by his participation, from my point of view, in comparison with any such bill under Obama, where the sky would likely not be the limit.

I don’t see that this adds anything. You think a bill with Obama as president would be worse? Why would it be? I’ve seen no sign that he’s as amnesty obsessive as McCain is. He has not spent the last several years introducing amnesty bills.

But try to imagine the jack-assery that a newly-empowered Obama with whatever mandate he will claim will push for and likely get from Congress. Do you think he’ll even bother with a fence?

Probably not. Although if he can see a political advantage in doing so, he’d do it. McCain, on the other hand, is dead set against a fence, regardless of it’s political impact. He’s an open borders true believer. Obama is a corrupt Chicago machine pol.

One last time: Queeg doesn’t care what other people, even in large minorities or clear majorities think.

He’s a maverick!

If he really cared about this stuff, he’d tell Juan Hernandez and the rest of his “Mexico First” compadres to take a hike.

At this point, I think the only way he’ll get the point is if the anti-amnesty/secure borders movement holds a mass demonstration (peaceful of course, we’re not Democrats here) at the GOP National Convention.

Besides, isn’t Queeg getting beaten to death in the Latino polls? Amnesty is all well and good, but Obama, by nature as a Democrat, offers increased social services, driver’s licences, etc…on top of it.

Sorry Queeg. Poor illiterate refugees with no desire to assimilate and the community that supports them, aren’t going to take amnesty when the other guy’s offering all that and more.

I am tired of people taking these polls and reading their own prejudices and mindsets into them. I have no problem voting for McCain and I think border security is a priority. The problem that some hardliners have is that they see a poll like this and they assume that there are two kinds of people: people who look at the issue just like they do and open border fanatics. Not true. That is why they keep losing elections when they use this issue to the exclusion of all others.

Most people are concerned about border security and most people are concerned about illegal immigration in general. They just don’t think that the Tancredo/Malkin approach is the only approach.

And I’m guessing your approach would be to madly support whatever McCain decides to do, whether it was open borders, or a fence made of dead animals, you would find some way to cheerlead it. Rather than waste your time commenting on issues, why don’t you build a temple to McCain and see if he’ll start answering prayers.

McCain-haters!
Amnesty is not
–huge fine (for dirt-poor worker)
–jumping through bureaucratic hoops
–jumping through geographic hoops
–back taxes
–wait, wait, wait your turn
I didn’t like his program (which he has renounced), but it wasn’t amnesty.

jgapinoy on June 13, 2008 at 7:41 PM

McCain Lover/Apologist: yes it is if the end result is that an illegal is allowed the benefit of his/her illegal act!

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO, DEPORT (insert number here) PEOPLE??? That is the main argument from ILLEGAL SYMPATHIZERS. The answer is out WEST in Arizona. We passed an EMPLOYER SANCTIONS LAW. Went into effect January 2008. Have not really been enforcing it to the full extent yet. Two school districts in the metro Phoenix area have reported significant drops in student enrollment already. Our EMERGENCY ROOMS are less busy. Rents are coming down, because vacancies are up. I wonder where all these PEOPLE went??? To surrounding STATES or back to MEXICO would be my guess… Pass a NATIONAL EMPLOYERS SANCTIONS LAW, and ENFORCE IT!!! Dry up the JOBS and the ILLEGALS will self deport… DEMAND this from your ELECTED OFFICIALS and see how fast we get a HANDLE on this COUNTRY again!!!

I wonder what the numbers are for just the border states. I would wager that both those numbers are 30% higher in that case. The pollz are skewed anyway…Rasputin would have a more accurate poll that this twit and his colleagues.

McCain-haters!
Amnesty is not
–huge fine (for dirt-poor worker)
–jumping through bureaucratic hoops
–jumping through geographic hoops
–back taxes
–wait, wait, wait your turn
I didn’t like his program (which he has renounced), but it wasn’t amnesty.

jgapinoy on June 13, 2008 at 7:41 PM

what huge fine it came out to less then 50$ a month over 8 years .

jumping through bureaucratic hoops waaaa waaa waaa they should be doing that before the step on foot in this country .

oh you mean the geographic hoop like jumping the boarder .

back taxes how are they going to figure out what the back taxes are when they work off the books ????

wait you turn that only works if they have to return to there home country and wait untill we call their number and if that takes 20 years then ok but that isnt going to happen they will never go back home.

and yes it was amnesty you can spin it anyway you want but if it walks like a duck and swims like a duck and qwakes like a duck its a duck .