With my hopes to go fire looking to hopefully come true with the current itemized gear I wanted to start looking at trinkets. So with what I got out of these trinket values a few things come to mind:

-Light of Cosmos is so good.

-The vision of Lei Shen I assumed with 40% crit, a fire mage is more likely to be over 50%+ on fireball to nearing 60% on Pyroblast meaning that the current estimated crit will be climbing down.

-Lei Shen will be amazingly good for Spriest and Warlocks assuming the few tests done on PTR were correct, those classes seemed to have their crit percent snapshot in contrast to Boomkins which did not.

-Wushoolay looks like it will be the powerhouse trinket especially if you can line up the perfect alter at 14 seconds in.

-Breathe of Hydra seems like it could be far more forgiving with a 20 second duration compared to Cha-Ye's but the infrequency of Hydra's proc could also work against it. Assuming Cha will be a fire BiS it has a more frantic style in contrast with Hydra which will be calmer overall, it just seems interesting to see a variance in trinkets like that.

-Trying to lose hit in forming your gear will be important if you want to use Wushoolay which will probably be a pain to manage.

2/14
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Updated Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance with new Crit based RPPM coefficient.

2/17
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Changed Non-RPPM trinket calc, need better way to figure out expected time to proc

I have different number from WoWhead. Were did you found these one. Maybe, we need to check them on live. But I have only check 535 trinket.

For your calculation, it's a good job (not really readable).
The ppm system isn't this simple.
An interesting number is the proc rate at 10s (from the previous proc). With it, you can make at sheet to show haste influence on it.
There's also what can proc what. (dot, spell, crit, etc). I have tweet GC to know if Wushoolay can be proc from Waterbolt ...

For Lei-shen, the power of the trinket came from the 100% crit. As fire, it's a guaranteed free pyro and an huge ignite. As Frost, it's nothing interesting.
But Cha-Ye is very powerful for Frost, especially if crit capped and for Fire because of the huge crit rating and multiple DoT to proc it.

edit> I will take my time for calculation (they can change rapidly).
But the proc rate at 10s for 0%/25%/50% haste are :

removed because of error in my formula !!!

I think that 10s/0.5 ppm is very low for trinket.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 11:51 AM ----------

Interesting things:
For a 10s duration, the proc rate at 10s is equal to the uptime.

And the number of spell that can proc it also have an influence.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 11:52 AM ----------

Interesting things:
For a 10s duration, the proc rate at 10s is equal to the uptime.

Can confirm that Warlocks and Shadow Priests get crit% snapshot upon application. Boomkins and Mages don't.

Lei Shen will still be strong for Fire due to 4s being turned into 8s with Alter Time (at least on pull). Don't even *need* (obviously better) to have HU/Pyro! up when you AT it, as during the duration you have 100% crit anyway. This allows for potentially maximum-damage Combustions if you can line it up with other trinket procs; as you can get 4 Guaranteed crit Pyroblasts! off during this time.

That is where the strength for Fire will be; yes it's slightly diminished returns considering Fire is massively stacking crit anyway, but the interaction with Alter Time and Combustion still keeps it strong.

I think it is a very powerful trinket which used in combination with AT (like Serene said) would give us around 7-8 pyro crits. I would wait until I get a Pyro!+HU proc then proceed with casting a fireball which I would end with a macro containing the trinket + AT + Pyro at the end. So I get 8 seconds of 100% crit in which I squeeze as many pyro's as I can out of which all will crit. Dunno if I should use Combustion after the 3rd Pyro or I can squeeze in a 4th before the ignite from the first pyro falls.

Shame it drops off Lei Shen
Fortunately(?) the proc is identical between Normal, Heroic and LFR

This could potentially see it fall behind other trinkets in their HC versions, but for Normal/LFR (LFR wtf -.-) it certainly incredibly strong. Get it off LFR and while you get diminished Int gain the proc is pretty ridiculous

1.30 * 0.84 / 60 = 1.82% chance to proc for the first hit and therefore 18.2% for the tenth?

Got my formulars and numbers from research via google, if they are wrong, a little guide would be nice, how to math out proc chances. Because, I would like to have a proper addon to track my trinkets (it´s bread and butter for a proper damage dealer imho).

Based on my knowledge, RPPM is a complete nightmare for a damage dealer (mage).

The choice of the trinkets will have a influence on how to reforge stuff.
A fire mage with Lei-Shen/Hydra could prefer less crit for more haste and NT over LB. But the same mage with Wushoolay/Cha-Ye will maximise Crit.
The same will be true for Frost mage with a haste/NT build for Hydra, and a crit caping build for Cha-Ye.

I'm thinking of they're influence for Arcane.
If Hydra will be limited to NT user, Lei-Shen can do monstrous burst at 4-stack/full mana.

My question is about cooldown and trinket proc.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 02:29 PM ----------

Originally Posted by citizenpete

Hey guys, I wanted to do some math with Sinister Primal Diamond myself, but I think I missed the whole RPPM discussion. My formula looks like:

1.30 * 0.84 / 60 = 1.82% chance to proc for the first hit and therefore 18.2% for the tenth?

Got my formulars and numbers from research via google, if they are wrong, a little guide would be nice, how to math out proc chances. Because, I would like to have a proper addon to track my trinkets (it´s bread and butter for a proper damage dealer imho).

Based on my knowledge, RPPM is a complete nightmare for a damage dealer (mage).

Thanks in advance

There's the formula that I use:
For proc rate :

[proc_rate] = [ppm]*[haste]*[time_since_last_proc]/60

with [time_since_last_proc] capped at 10s maximum
with [haste] in the 1.xx form (for xx%)
with [proc_rate] in %

With ppm, the proc rate change with the time since the last proc. So at the start, you will have 1.82% chance and 18.2% after 10s. It's the maximum.
So every hit after 10s will have the same proc rate.

In theory, you can chain proc but it's rarely the case. Except under Bloodlust,

Thank you Nathyiel, your formula is saved : ) So it´s seconds and not hits with a cap of 10s. It puts RNG to the table, doesn´t it? Addons like ExtraCD are useless then, you will never now, when it could proc and save Cooldowns like IV, Pots, Mana Gem or whatever.

That is wrong. It is [time_since_last_chance_to_proc] which is quite different from [time_since_last_proc]. Your chance does not increase the longer you go without a proc, it increases the longer you go without casting (to a max of 10 seconds).

That is wrong. It is [time_since_last_chance_to_proc] which is quite different from [time_since_last_proc]. Your chance does not increase the longer you go without a proc, it increases the longer you go without casting (to a max of 10 seconds).

Sounds right, but wouldn't that mean that if I spam FB with ~1,9s (18% haste), the proc chance with 0.5 RPPM will never be higher than

0.5 * 1.18 * 1,9 / 60 = 1,86833% per FB hit?

Seems quite low for me! (And if dots also trigger the trinket, it would be even lower due to more frequently damage dealing = more proc chances with low percentages)

That is wrong. It is [time_since_last_chance_to_proc] which is quite different from [time_since_last_proc]. Your chance does not increase the longer you go without a proc, it increases the longer you go without casting (to a max of 10 seconds).

Good catch !!!
It explain why I have so high proc rate. It buzz me all day.

@Smakaii: yes, ppm proc rate have to be very low. A 0.5ppm is design to proc every 2 minutes.
Example for a "proc on dot" trinket with "Firmage", a fire mage with NT:
Firmage is dealing in 3s a lot of "proc event" : 3 from NT, 1 from pyro's dot, 3 from ignite. It's 7 proc event in 3s, with 0 haste (for more easy calculation). For making simple, it's ~2 dot by second. 1 proc event every 0.5s.
So we have proc rate = ppm*haste*t_since_last_chance/60 = 0.5*1*0.5/60 = 0.42%.

Now, with Arcmage (a arcane mage with NT). He only have 1 dot per second with NT. It's proc rate is 0.5*1*1/60 = 0.83%
And we have Frosmage (frost mage with LB), with 1 tick every 3s. It's proc rate is 2.5%

On 12s, they have, respectively, 24, 12 and 4 proc chance. It give them 10.08% in 12s, 9.99% and 10%. (proc chance is really so easy to math but it's for the demonstration, and it's a good approximation)
It explain why all spec, even with only 1 dot, can use "proc on dot" trinket with good result.

but why dot class have always better result with this type of trinket ?
Simply because, they much more dot than other with only 1 dot. Even with a lower proc rate, the more proc event you have, the more chance to proc there is.

It will e the same with the glyph of Icy veins and the "proc on crit" trinket. W/o the glyph, it will proc on IL/FFB with the shatter crit (~80%) with a 2s/3s time_since_last_chance. With the gllyph, the 3 minibolt will give 3x80% chance to crit and even if the 3 crit, the first will have a good proc rate with the 2s/3s time_since... and the other two will also have a chance to proc but with a time_since of 0.2s.

Conclusion :
The number of proc event have a influence on the uptime but limited in comparison of haste. Just keep in mind that haste increase the proc rate but decrease the time between proc event.

Why blood/TW/hero boost so much the proc rate ?
because the GCD cap is at 1s and because you launch every thing you have (combu, frozen orb, missile, etc).

Finally, a big thanks to Tickspoon for showing my mistake.

proc rate :
[ppm]*[haste]*[time_since_last_proc_chance]/60

approximated interval :
60/([ppm]*[haste])

approximated up-time :
[ppm]*[haste]*[duration]/60

personal note : the dev that design the ppm system is a genius !!

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 07:56 PM ----------

GC announce some chance to the trinket is more likely to happen, especially Cha-Ye who can made scaling with crit.
It will be interesting.

Can confirm that Warlocks and Shadow Priests get crit% snapshot upon application. Boomkins and Mages don't.

Lei Shen will still be strong for Fire due to 4s being turned into 8s with Alter Time (at least on pull). Don't even *need* (obviously better) to have HU/Pyro! up when you AT it, as during the duration you have 100% crit anyway. This allows for potentially maximum-damage Combustions if you can line it up with other trinket procs; as you can get 4 Guaranteed crit Pyroblasts! off during this time.

That is where the strength for Fire will be; yes it's slightly diminished returns considering Fire is massively stacking crit anyway, but the interaction with Alter Time and Combustion still keeps it strong.

Any reasons why the crit would be snapshotted for warlocks / shadow but not boomkins and mages? Odd behaviour...if true.

Do you have proof because Crit% in the game, World of Warcraft, does not snapshot for any classes. Why would a trinket make a class work 100% different from how the game has for 7 years unless it's a bug. Crit is a dynamic stat, when the buff goes away so does extra %. Haste and SP/Int are snapshot, but maybe you're thinking about the interaction they have with extending their dots?

The hover tool tips are broken but if you click on each trinket you can see the current stats.

Originally Posted by Dominian

Do you have proof because Crit% in the game, World of Warcraft, does not snapshot for any classes. Why would a trinket make a class work 100% different from how the game has for 7 years unless it's a bug. Crit is a dynamic stat, when the buff goes away so does extra %. Haste and SP/Int are snapshot, but maybe you're thinking about the interaction they have with extending their dots?

You can confirm it by getting the lucky do crit buff from the red jars along the Burlap Trail and clicking it off, warlocks and spriests are definitely keeping the crit chance for dots casted with it.

Do you have proof because Crit% in the game, World of Warcraft, does not snapshot for any classes. Why would a trinket make a class work 100% different from how the game has for 7 years unless it's a bug. Crit is a dynamic stat, when the buff goes away so does extra %. Haste and SP/Int are snapshot, but maybe you're thinking about the interaction they have with extending their dots?

Well I know for a fact Mage DoTs are vastly different from Warlock ones, so I wouldn't be surprised if Crit worked differently.

For instance, putting NT on an add on Sha of Fear and then going back to the center will make him deflect the DoT. (NOT referring to the "arcane fish")