14:57:48 RRSAgent has joined #ldp
14:57:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-ldp-irc
14:57:50 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:50 Zakim has joined #ldp
14:57:52 Zakim, this will be LDP
14:57:52 ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:53 Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:57:53 Date: 28 January 2013
14:58:20 bblfish has joined #ldp
14:58:22 SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
14:58:29 +Arnaud
14:58:40 SteveS has joined #ldp
14:58:58 +??P7
14:59:02 Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:59:02 +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
14:59:09 antonis has joined #ldp
14:59:40 +??P8
15:00:19 Ashok has joined #ldp
15:00:25 SteveBattle_ has joined #ldp
15:00:34 zakim, code?
15:00:34 the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Ashok
15:00:42 +[IPcaller]
15:00:44 +[IPcaller.a]
15:00:46 Zakim, please dial ericP-office
15:00:46 ok, ericP; the call is being made
15:00:47 +EricP
15:00:51 zakim, ??p8 is me
15:00:51 +antonis; got it
15:00:59 zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
15:00:59 sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
15:01:00 +??P0
15:01:09 +Ashok_Malhotra
15:01:10 JohnArwe has joined #ldp
15:01:12 zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me
15:01:12 sorry, dret, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'
15:01:17 +OpenLink_Software
15:01:19 Zakim: [IPcaller.a] is me
15:01:30 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:01:30 +dret; got it
15:01:31 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:01:31 +TallTed; got it
15:01:33 Zakim, mute me
15:01:33 TallTed should now be muted
15:01:37 Zakim: IPcaller.a is me
15:01:57 +JohnArwe
15:02:05 rogerm has joined #ldp
15:02:15 +roger
15:02:18 very quiet on the line
15:02:23 +Steve_Speicher
15:02:26 + +44.754.550.aaaa
15:02:41 zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:41 +SteveBattle_; got it
15:02:46 zakim, Steve_Speicher is me
15:02:46 +SteveS; got it
15:02:54 very quiet, but it seems to work ok.
15:02:56 +[IPcaller]
15:03:04 krp has joined #ldp
15:03:05 zakim, IPcaller is me
15:03:05 +AndyS; got it
15:03:19 +bblfish
15:03:23 -??P0
15:03:32 hi
15:03:39 zakim, who's here?
15:03:39 On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, [IPcaller.a], EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish
15:03:40 pchampin has joined #ldp
15:03:42 On IRC I see krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed, bhyland,
15:03:42 ... oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves, sandro
15:03:57 Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
15:03:57 +sergio; got it
15:03:59 +??P3
15:04:14 zakim, who's here?
15:04:14 On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P3
15:04:17 On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,
15:04:17 ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves
15:04:31 zakim, pick a victim
15:04:31 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Arnaud
15:04:40 +1
15:04:42 zakim, pick a victim
15:04:42 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P3
15:04:44 +1
15:04:55 who laughed?
15:04:59 pick him!!
15:05:11 -??P3
15:05:32 +??P26
15:05:35 zakim, who's here?
15:05:35 On the phone I see Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, antonis, dret, sergio, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, TallTed (muted), JohnArwe, roger, SteveS, SteveBattle_, AndyS, bblfish, ??P26
15:05:39 On IRC I see pchampin, krp, rogerm, JohnArwe, SteveBattle_, Ashok, antonis, SteveS, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, sergio, Arnaud, BartvanLeeuwen, dret, AndyS, TallTed,
15:05:39 ... bhyland, oberger, jmvanel, stevebattle, deiu, trackbot, betehess, Yves
15:05:50 zakim, pick a victim
15:05:51 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P26
15:06:11 Kalpa has joined #ldp
15:06:13 chair: arnaud
15:06:14 chair: Arnaud
15:07:16 +??P5
15:07:45 looked and didn't see any problem
15:07:58 proposed to accept last week's meeting: no objection, minutes approved.
15:08:01 zakim, ??P5 is me
15:08:02 +krp; got it
15:08:21 You can now close my action from last week
15:08:26 please everybody indicate f2f attendance until next mondat
15:08:40 zakim, ??P26 is me
15:08:40 +nmihindu; got it
15:09:03 close ACTION-28
15:09:03 Closed ACTION-28 Access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section.
15:09:05 action-28?
15:09:05 ACTION-28 -- Henry Story to access Control: fill in use cases and requirements and Identity section -- due 2012-11-21 -- CLOSED
15:09:05 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/28
15:09:34 action-36?
15:09:34 ACTION-36 -- John Arwe to [EDITOR] Make changes for ISSUE-42 (moving common props to deployment guide) -- due 2013-01-14 -- OPEN
15:09:34 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/36
15:09:49 discussing ACTION-36, which is 97% complete
15:10:06 +??P9
15:10:19 +Yves
15:11:12 ACTION-36, content has been moved to deployment guide, but some clean-up is required
15:12:23 ISSUE-46 has been raised, rogerm explains the motivation
15:12:49 issue-46?
15:12:49 ISSUE-46 -- services and LDP -- raised
15:12:49 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/46
15:12:54 pchampin_ has joined #ldp
15:13:49 rogerm explains how ISSUE-46 could be closed, which is not quite clear from the issue itself
15:14:15 Arnaud claims that it's not quite clear what the issue is asking us to do?
15:15:08 q?
15:15:09 q+
15:15:18 ack bblfish
15:15:28 q+
15:15:41 q+
15:16:02 "category 1" as described by Arnaud refers to interacting with collections and entries, not about a generic RDF database model of "just managing triples"
15:16:11 ack steveb
15:16:38 SteveBattle says that both scenarios are covered
15:16:40 ack john
15:16:44 svillata has joined #ldp
15:17:32 Issue-37?
15:17:32 ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
15:17:32 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
15:17:45 JohnArwe says we have different audiences, one starting from the bottom, the other starting top-down, and ISSUE-46 is very much related to ISSUE-37
15:18:22 we as a WG are not delivering solutions, we are delivering building blocks for solutions
15:18:26 +??P30
15:18:48 zakim, P30 is me
15:18:48 sorry, svillata, I do not recognize a party named 'P30'
15:18:58 zakim, ??P30 is me
15:18:58 +svillata; got it
15:20:00 bblfish: said that there is a relation to this problem and the use cases document, it is an interesting issue, but not sure if it should be opened. There is definitetly something that should be done as a group to try to solve this. My guess is that one can do this very declaratively, and that there is some new things to do.
15:21:10 I think it is covered by our use case document already
15:22:38 it seems to very unclear what category 1 and 2 even mean, different people have different opinions on what they mean
15:23:14 makes sense
15:24:09 It would always be possible to make this more explicit in the next iteration of UC&R - we did invite comments four this iteration but we had none :)
15:24:16 rogerm is asked by Arnaud to refer to UCR and see whether ISSUE-46 can be reframed in terms of missing UCR issues; ISSUE-46 remains raised for now
15:25:06 rogerm claims that category 2 will be addressed by at least some of the WG members
15:25:36 Arnaud asks what's the current status of UCR?
15:26:47 we need to find out what went wrong with the publication process so that we can avoid it doing it again
15:27:17 TallTed has joined #ldp
15:27:35 email address in the WD needs to be changed to be the public email address (not the -wg only)
15:28:58 Arnaud: our charter asks us to publish a second WD this month (january). should we do this or wait for more substantial changes?
15:29:28 SteveS would prefer delay of about a month, so that changes related to ISSUE-34 and ISSUE-37 can be included
15:30:15 JohnArwe asks about exclusion period (somebody maybe should check); Yves isn't sure that something has been announced yet
15:30:57 Should we not have the relative URL changes?
15:31:01 maybe putting out a WD right before or after the f2f2 would be hit by a publishing moratorium
15:31:09 next publication moratorium is 7-17 June 2013
15:32:01 Issue-37
15:32:01 ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
15:32:01 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
15:32:18 ISSUE-37 was an attempt to clearly write down the assumptions that people have about the (often implicit) model of LDP
15:32:31 q?
15:32:33 q+
15:33:07 so far there is little convergence, the wiki page is mostly the AtomPub model, the ISSUE-37 approach so far does not seem to be working very well
15:33:41 +
15:33:47 q+
15:34:00 if we cannot conclude ISSUE-37 to actually come to (some) description of the model, we probably should focus more on the individual issues, than on the very general ISSUE-37 issue
15:35:14 Issue-34?
15:35:14 ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open
15:35:14 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34
15:35:25 krp has joined #ldp
15:35:31 Arnaud proposes to give us a week for making progress on ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-34, but we need to keep an eye on the timeline and solving specific issues around LDP
15:36:05 ack bblfish
15:36:07 q?
15:36:33 bblfish is impossible to understand...
15:36:33 bblfish, please move closer to wifi base... or type
15:36:35 -bblfish
15:36:39 "in the large hall" sound
15:36:49 ack ashok
15:37:01 willl take time to reconnect
15:37:02 just contine
15:37:06 continue
15:37:17 q+
15:37:20 Zakim, unmute me
15:37:20 TallTed should no longer be muted
15:37:33 Ashok says we'll keep coming back to ISSUE-37 questions, even if we start focusing on more specific issues
15:37:48 q?
15:38:03 +bblfish
15:38:06 Ashok gives example of "container with container" issue, which is a question of the overall model
15:38:11 q?
15:38:28 +??P31
15:38:35 q+
15:38:39 zakim, ??P31 is me
15:38:39 +krp; got it
15:38:52 Arnaud says defining the model "piecemeal" may not be ideal, but maybe more manageable
15:39:13 ack tallted
15:39:23 Ashok says we might just want to discuss the open questions on the ISSUE-37 wiki page
15:40:29 TallTed says we should focus on the important issues, but they may be too big to just close them. just discussing them might be not very productive.
15:41:20 what makes LDP different from what is out there?
15:41:22 ack bblfish
15:42:06 bblfish says that Atom rejected a model
15:42:13 q+
15:42:23 ack dret
15:42:26 Zakim, mute me
15:42:27 TallTed should now be muted
15:42:50 q+
15:43:13 -antonis
15:43:34 Zakim, who's noisy?
15:43:45 TallTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (29%), bblfish (38%)
15:43:59 I muted myself
15:44:13 +??P8
15:44:19 ack bblfish
15:44:28 zakim, ??p8 is me
15:44:28 +antonis; got it
15:44:35 -q
15:44:41 I am thinking I was still found the work on the ontology last week was very useful. For example I now agree with Arnaud that LDPC are sublcass LDPR
15:44:42 bblfish - sometimes Zakim's mute is necessary (e.g., line noise isn't cleared by muting handset)
15:45:28 bblfish says that defining ontologies are very useful exercises when it comes to understanding the issues
15:45:48 zakim, who is making noise?
15:45:59 dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (29%), dret (5%), bblfish (53%)
15:46:17 bblfish sounds like being in a giant hall with revolving doors
15:46:22 why are "defining the LDP spec" and "defining an ontology for LDP" orthogonal?
15:46:27 It's linked data arnaud
15:46:32 they seem unbreakably interlinked
15:46:36 you have to publsih the ldp:Container
15:46:37 q+
15:46:42 and ldp:Resource
15:46:44 ack steves
15:47:31 No just define the datamodel
15:47:31 Yves says there should be a definition for what we can exchange in the protocol.
15:47:54 but the problem is that when you discuss the system, you need to work out what it is that you are speaking about
15:47:55 q+
15:48:13 s/Yves/SteveS/
15:49:15 ack steves
15:49:50 SteveS says that the ISSUE-34 proposal separates the interaction model from the (deeper) data model
15:50:05 Issue-37?
15:50:05 ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
15:50:05 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
15:50:53 ISSUE-37 has a wiki page, which seems to be largely unused (apart from Ashok's still open questions, and SteveS's additions to the page)
15:51:14 Ashok proposes to bring up other questions for discussions
15:51:15 Henry, you said that your understanding of some things has changed based on the discussion, e.g. on the sub-classing. Have you shared those new understandings on the list? I confess I'm not caught up on the generous helping of emails yet.
15:52:52 q+
15:53:19 q+ to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission
15:53:50 http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37
15:53:51 q+
15:54:08 ack bblfish
15:54:10 bblfish maybe unmute?
15:54:25 bblfish you're really hard to understand...
15:54:28 totally breaking up bblfish
15:54:41 ok, next week
15:54:52 ack ericp
15:54:52 ericP, you wanted to discuss resolving with tests a la http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing#manifest_test_description.2C_EARL_results_submission
15:55:41 JohnArwe: I for example started understanding why it makes sense that an LDPC is a sublcass of an LDPR
15:55:50