Slipping below the 20K mark for the first time since Diamond started providing the current set of figures in March 2003.

Overall, there are 15 “New 52″ books selling fewer than 20,000 units in June, versus 18 in April, the month before the first six were axed and replaced. Of those 15 titles, three are cancelled with their “#0″ issues in September and replaced in October. At the current rate, it looks like these books are approaching critical numbers faster than DC can cancel and replace them — particularly since one of the ones that’s in cancellation territory now was just launched as a replacement for another failed title in May.

I think it's time for a few of the Legion fans out there to finally admit that screwing Mark Waid over and bringing in the neo-classic Legion has been a disaster. This has been one of the worst re-launches in DC history.

Slipping below the 20K mark for the first time since Diamond started providing the current set of figures in March 2003.

Overall, there are 15 “New 52″ books selling fewer than 20,000 units in June, versus 18 in April, the month before the first six were axed and replaced. Of those 15 titles, three are cancelled with their “#0″ issues in September and replaced in October. At the current rate, it looks like these books are approaching critical numbers faster than DC can cancel and replace them — particularly since one of the ones that’s in cancellation territory now was just launched as a replacement for another failed title in May.

I think it's time for a few of the Legion fans out there to finally admit that screwing Mark Waid over and bringing in the neo-classic Legion has been a disaster. This has been one of the worst re-launches in DC history.

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."

cheese

You can't be seriously saying that the Legion isn't selling because Mark Waid's vision didn't take with the old-schoolers?

Bottom line: Some books do better than others in relaunches/reboots. I don't pretend those numbers are pretty -- they aren't. But here's the thing: Whatever delusion you hold of going back to some era of the Legion that lasted fewer than 50 issues -- sorry, man. That ship has sailed.

DC made the right decision in restoring the original timeline. Either they'll figure out a way to get this thing fixed, or they won't. But it has nothing to do with "Neo-Classic Legion." It can EASILY, and I mean EASILY, be argued that the reason the Legion has been damaged so severely is because of what they did to the original Legion's timeline, way back when.

No version has ever sold better than this one. NONE. Is it struggling now? Sure. But, again and for emphasis: NO VERSION OF LEGION HAS EVER SOLD BETTER THAN THIS ONE.

cheese

You can't be seriously saying that the Legion isn't selling because Mark Waid's vision didn't take with the old-schoolers?

Bottom line: Some books do better than others in relaunches/reboots. I don't pretend those numbers are pretty -- they aren't. But here's the thing: Whatever delusion you hold of going back to some era of the Legion that lasted fewer than 50 issues -- sorry, man. That ship has sailed.

DC made the right decision in restoring the original timeline. Either they'll figure out a way to get this thing fixed, or they won't. But it has nothing to do with "Neo-Classic Legion." It can EASILY, and I mean EASILY, be argued that the reason the Legion has been damaged so severely is because of what they did to the original Legion's timeline, way back when.

No version has ever sold better than this one. NONE. Is it struggling now? Sure. But, again and for emphasis: NO VERSION OF LEGION HAS EVER SOLD BETTER THAN THIS ONE.

Period.

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

Bottom line: Some books do better than others in relaunches/reboots. I don't pretend those numbers are pretty -- they aren't. But here's the thing: Whatever delusion you hold of going back to some era of the Legion that lasted fewer than 50 issues -- sorry, man. That ship has sailed.

The fact it didn't last has to do with DC's mishandling it by a)Undermining it with the Lightning Saga and John's use of the "old" team in Action. b)Handing the book over to Shooter, which was a bomb.

The fact remains that DC's decision to go back to the "old" team didn't work.

DC made the right decision in restoring the original timeline. Either they'll figure out a way to get this thing fixed, or they won't. But it has nothing to do with "Neo-Classic Legion." It can EASILY, and I mean EASILY, be argued that the reason the Legion has been damaged so severely is because of what they did to the original Legion's timeline, way back when.

I won't argue with you with how DC handles LSH after COIE. That has a lot to do with Levitz not really willing to fix continuity issues with Byrne's Supes in a logical way (like having Clark involved with the team between the time he left Smallville to his first public appearance), or Giffen and the 5YG (which reportedly led to the directive from Carlin to remove Supes from LSH continuity altogether.)

No version has ever sold better than this one. NONE. Is it struggling now? Sure. But, again and for emphasis: NO VERSION OF LEGION HAS EVER SOLD BETTER THAN THIS ONE.

Period.

That was then, this is now. This version has failed to A) Bring back large numbers of old fans, and B) Bring in large numbers of new fans.

Comparing what the sales numbers were at the peak of the Levitz-Giffen years of 82-84 is easy. The direction the book went afterwards (both in story, art, and format) has failed.

One of the reasons I believe this current series has bombed is because of the Levitz and DC's unwillingness to make the necessary tweaks to make the title work. Instead, it's compounded continuity issues, cut the book off almost entirely from the Superman titles, and just not being up to the quality of the "classic era."

What does DC need to do now? Get Levitz off the book, get a writer with a good handle on SF to take over, and get an artist who has a style more in like with Grell or pre-vacation Giffen, and be willing to fix continuity issues or just do a "soft" reboot that retains continuity, but de-ages the team a little bit to where the old guard is in the college-age years or younger.

Bottom line: Some books do better than others in relaunches/reboots. I don't pretend those numbers are pretty -- they aren't. But here's the thing: Whatever delusion you hold of going back to some era of the Legion that lasted fewer than 50 issues -- sorry, man. That ship has sailed.

The fact it didn't last has to do with DC's mishandling it by a)Undermining it with the Lightning Saga and John's use of the "old" team in Action. b)Handing the book over to Shooter, which was a bomb.

The fact remains that DC's decision to go back to the "old" team didn't work.

DC made the right decision in restoring the original timeline. Either they'll figure out a way to get this thing fixed, or they won't. But it has nothing to do with "Neo-Classic Legion." It can EASILY, and I mean EASILY, be argued that the reason the Legion has been damaged so severely is because of what they did to the original Legion's timeline, way back when.

I won't argue with you with how DC handles LSH after COIE. That has a lot to do with Levitz not really willing to fix continuity issues with Byrne's Supes in a logical way (like having Clark involved with the team between the time he left Smallville to his first public appearance), or Giffen and the 5YG (which reportedly led to the directive from Carlin to remove Supes from LSH continuity altogether.)

No version has ever sold better than this one. NONE. Is it struggling now? Sure. But, again and for emphasis: NO VERSION OF LEGION HAS EVER SOLD BETTER THAN THIS ONE.

Period.

That was then, this is now. This version has failed to A) Bring back large numbers of old fans, and B) Bring in large numbers of new fans.

Comparing what the sales numbers were at the peak of the Levitz-Giffen years of 82-84 is easy. The direction the book went afterwards (both in story, art, and format) has failed.

One of the reasons I believe this current series has bombed is because of the Levitz and DC's unwillingness to make the necessary tweaks to make the title work. Instead, it's compounded continuity issues, cut the book off almost entirely from the Superman titles, and just not being up to the quality of the "classic era."

What does DC need to do now? Get Levitz off the book, get a writer with a good handle on SF to take over, and get an artist who has a style more in like with Grell or pre-vacation Giffen, and be willing to fix continuity issues or just do a "soft" reboot that retains continuity, but de-ages the team a little bit to where the old guard is in the college-age years or younger.

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."

DANG!

Zechs wrote::smt017 Why post this when there's a thread for this already?

That thread asked a question that no longer needed to be asked.

This thread needs to be more about what to do to go forward.

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."