Marcellus Wiley’s Response To Jason Whitlock’s Black KKK Piece

Received an email from Marcellus Wiley’s management that contained a response to Whitlock’s superficial, devoid of solutions, pandering once again to the masses, get that money piece. I asked if I could post the reply on TSF and fell asleep before receiving an answer. Marcellus sent me a text this morning stating: “Yes. Please do. Put it everywhere.”

There are folks who admittedly love Jason Whitlock. He does the work for those sick of racism claims by Blacks. “He says what we think but can’t express ourselves because we’ll get called racists,” they conveniently say. Maybe it’s because you are racist. You ever think of that?

Don’t be scared to speak or speak ’cause you’re scared. Offer solutions. Do something besides patting a money grubbing journalist with an agenda on his back.

Blacks are sick of this BS! Jason Whitlock does not speak for US. He speaks for himself. Blacks want solutions. There are all kinds of church services, tributes and megaphone led marches going on in ‘hoods across America that don’t get publicized. We do not want to hear blame hip hop, the ‘hood or nonsensical Michael Vick comparisons when a 24 year old father lay on his death bed and eventually passes. Really Jason, what does your empty rhetoric solve? How do we get pass this? If you or anyone else in the media doesn’t have anything constructive to offer, then shut the hell up until facts are presented. Let the people sort out information. Be responsible in your reporting instead of going after the money. Don’t most of you criticize athletes for the same damn thing? How are we as Americans going to get pass this cancerous and potentially harmful racial dichotomy if all this BS continues? The timing of Whitlock’s piece smacks of opportunistic this should get us some hits boss nonsense and devoid of reverence and sensitivity for Sean Taylor. The man saved his family and should be applauded for providing the ultimate sacrifice–his life. The masses will never be affected by Black tragedy and for whatever reason, this is who Whitlock loves tospeak to.

Thanks Marcellus for giving us a professional athlete’s perspective. Marcellus has literally been in the competitive trenches and because of his engaging personality, has encountered a myriad of people throughout his career. If anyone knows the true pulse of what’s happening on and off the field, trust it’s Dat Dude. There is a need for more current and former pro athletes to chime in when the media attacks their collective credibility. We don’t see this type of reaction from those on the playing field because some are concerned how being outspoken might affect their playing status as well as their endorsements. Someone has to step up and face media cynicism and fortunately Marcellus Wiley has offered relevant words when they are truly needed.

Dat Dude’s response:

Sean Taylor WILL Rest in Peace!!!

I thought it was impossible to kill the dead…

The loss of a human being, father, son, boyfriend, teammate, and friend should make any heart-beating homo sapien reflect on their own mortality and thank God for the blessing and gift that accompanies every breath of life. Underlining these humbling moments of reflection on the deceased should be offerings of sympathy, honor, and homage for the victim. All of us must be respectfully cognizant of the family that has to live with an irreplaceable void in their lives and hearts.

Despite an individual’s heights or shortcomings; people traveling down the road of life need to always respect other passengers on the road. Respect should especially be given to those who have crossed their destiny’s finite finish line. To mentally use a highlighter in hindsight to solely show previous indiscretions in search of judicial direction or public understanding during a time of remorse and healing throws a lower blow than Andrew Golota, to say the least.

Unfortunately, this week I have witnessed such heartless acts being woven into the reporting of the Sean Taylor slaying. Before pertinent details and facts began to unfold, some of the most trusted members of the media intellect decided to give a post-game report on one human beings life. To attempt to sum up his life with accolades, achievements, and police reports is as senseless as saying you saw the Super Bowl when truly you only read the newspaper the next day. Jason Whitlock of FoxSports.com lead this charge into an abyss of mystery and speculation, solely supported on rap sheets and insensitive opinions. Opinions that attempted to correlate the KKK with the social ills that are creeping into our professional sports culture. Do you hear of a CEO’s death from lung cancer and immediately tally up the number of cigarettes they inhaled over their shortened life in condemnation, before they are buried? Despite the glaring correlation, the absence of tact in this style of reporting is more striking than the enlightenment and judgment you strive to receive from the reader and/or viewer.

No more negative attention should be mis-appropriately placed on another victim, especially one apart of my professional sports fraternity. I will not partake in it. That will be left up to the reporters who stress fame first and facts second, shock value before sensitivity.

My question is why inject that lack of compassion into this arena, at this time…in the hopes of waking up Black America?

I was described by Whitlock as ‘singing the tune’ when I mentioned on Espn’s First Take and the Mike Tirico radio show that “athletes are targets”. Without knowledge of the facts of Seans’ particular case mounting in support of my argument, I made the statement based on the intelligence of being a 10-year veteran of the NFL. I have not only studied my sport in regards to the X’s & O’s, but more valuably, I lived in it! I didn’t need to interview sources to state the facts of the sports culture and the ills that surround and permeates through it. My only homework needed was recollection.

So it deeply troubles me when speculation motives in sensationalism in regards to the sport and the people that are members of my fraternity. Simply stated, it collides directly with my life and my circle of concern.

Sports were a means to an end for many of the players we currently celebrate nightly on Sportscenter. Being born in Compton and raised in inner-city Los Angeles, I’ve lived a first-hand perspective of the subtractions that gangs, poverty, drugs, and violence has on the human race AND black culture. Oh yeah, back then they called us “Boyz-n-the Hood”.

Sean Taylor is not the first football player that I have played against that has died by the hands of another person. Sadly, I’ve had teammates miss seasons in the past, and not because of injury, but because of their own death. Murdered! I’ve personally had to lay terrified on an open grass field for a half an hour before one of my football games during warm-ups while the spray of bullets came to a halt. How should I rationalize this? A wise-woman once told me, “You can’t make sense out of non-sense.”

So the attempts in correlation of Seans’ past and this incident seemed to me untimely. If you thought you were going to solve his murder by reading off his misdemeanors or felonies over a loudspeaker for the crowd of public court to jeer, we’ve all been proven assumingly wrong. This case has sadly turned out to be an armed-robbery gone tragically wrong. It was committed by four youths, who in a flash turned Sean Taylor from a hard-hitting safety into a homicide victim. And they weren’t the haunting ghosts from his ‘criminal past’ that everyone feared. Instead, these young kids’ mal-intentions placed a bulls-eye on Sean’s success, wealth, assets, and absence from home. Yes, he was a target!

I guess Whitlock is right. Taylor’s death, like his news headline stated, is “a grim reminder for us all”. Yeah, it’s a reminder all right. It reminds me that not only are there villains in this world who unfortunately put their energy into destruction, but there are also still people who are thoughtless enough to destroy the lives of the living and memory of the deceased with an inept justification such as a checkered past, a zip code of residency, or a skin color.

But, since I’ve been avoiding the so-called ‘Black KKK’ for 33 years, and not just reporting on it, please, please keep the reminders to yourself next time! Trust me, I would much rather report and read about the life of the glass that’s half FULL. The Taylor family and I both agree that the EMPTY glass reminders are too painful!

Perhaps this tragedy will be the begining of the end of not only Jason Witless and his cadre of “superheads”, aka “massa can I massa can I?”, bojanglers, but it will also start serious public blacklash (blacklash?) against all the irrisponsible journalism which is shaping the minds and enabling the haters in America Inc.

Now if more prominent atheletes can be encouraged to do the same? I can only imagine the possibilities.

Hopefully the modern black althlete would do what they did in the 60’s when Ali was criticized for rejecting enlistment in 1967, black players from various sports like

Willie Davis
Bill Russell
John Wooten
Hank Aaron
Bobby Mitchell

and many others talked to Ali and made a joint statement together (Check that out on Jim Brown All- American) and formed an united front that they weren’t going to be divided by the white media or the black apologists. Mr. Wiley if the modern black ballplayer in various sports said that we were going to boycott the sports media for the rest of the season(and postseason) in Print, T.V. in response to Sean Taylor’s death and the constant sterotyping of Black Althletes in sports and the American Public, maybe 40 years from now kids and adults will still wear your jersey like they do Aaron, Ali, Russell, and Brown who were not only known for their greatness on the field, but took a stand for the right thing.

That would truly be “keeping it real “instead of worrying about endorsments and keeping the media well- fed. Remember O.J. he did that FOR NEARLY 40 years and look at him now like a dog begging white folks for their love and money when they have truly rejected him.

Eric…I keep the photo of that moment (Ali rejecting the draft, surrounded by his brothers in the struggle) up in my cubicle at work. That one, and the pic of the 68 Olympic “black power” moment……needless to say, I haven’t been bothered much since they went up…wonder why??

Frankly Miranda and Sanfoka, the media treats black ballplayers even worst before they stood up in the 60’s and challenged the media on their racism and media bias against them. People who hated those “rabble rousers’ and so- called reverse racists are admired and even more respected today for taking a stand as MEN.

Gotta a lot of respect for what Marcellus Wiley as a person and a ball player. My understanding, the Ivy leagues does not give athletic scholorship, that tell you all you need to know about Marcellus Wiley. Hopefully his voice will become louder.

Eric add to your 60’s list, Arthur Ashe and Curt Flood, whose famous quote to Howard Cosell “a high paid slave is still a slave”

More of us should have the conscious daily inspiration in their workspace Miranda. Whatever works. Did that brotha resemble Uncle Ruckus (no relation)?

Like I posted in another thread, I’m going on Chuck’s show tonight at 11:30 EST XM Radio 157 or Air America. Link in the blogroll (One the Real Off the Record). Had a very informative conversation with him earlier about the issues we discuss here daily and he agreed wholeheartedly with our approach. Interviewing him sometime this week. If anyone has specific questions you want asked, shoot me an email (about page). Trying to connect the dots people. Our voice needs exposure on all levels to help our children sustain a confident well being throughout their lives. Like Mos said, I’m trying to burn through their argument with action.

I put Wilbon in the same ‘sell out’ category with Whitlock simply because he (Wilbon) refuses to acknowledge truth when socializing with his MSM peers. I’ve lost count of the times on PTI when Wilbon didn’t challenge Tony Kornheiser on some of the bias and ridiculous comments he made as it relates to Black athletes. It’s like he’s afraid to get the white folks upset. I was looking for the ‘Ralph Wiley’ to manifest from his person but all i got was ‘Ralph Kramden’. In other words, all i got was an attempt of humor from him. As a result, i banned PTI from my television viewing.

I want to like Wiley, but as a fan I keep remembering the bad Charger years. As a fan it is hard to separate the athlete from the word sometimes, especially when they played for the team you rooted for.

Anyway, off topic, but was wondering something about Chuck D and other musical genres. As noted in another thread, Public Enemy has a quite a few songs with a heavy guitar influence, especially the last CD. Did he have any interaction or influence from a group like Bad Brains? I know hardcore punk is a predominately white thing, but Bad Brains is definitely not white, and the punk/reggae mix affected how I personally began to relate to music (they did this way back around ’79, though I am not old enough for that). I wonder stuff like this, please excuse if it isn’t really what you were looking for in the way of questions.

origin, it was found that he was joking with the other announcer. He was just making fun of USC, not Lendale white. Its no different than a Michigan alum making fun of a OSU friend by saying his team is filled with thugs.

If Wilbon’s ego can’t allow him to admit that his commentary on Sean Taylor was mean-spirited and just plain wrong, then he is more of a coward than I thought. This one act of non-contrition will wipe away anything positive I thought of his past writings. An egotistical coward is just the worse.

I agree with you on Wilbon. But the signs have been there for quite a while. As a general rule. When black media members start basking in the glow of the celebs with whom they come into contact because of their position, it’s only a matter of time before they sell out in every way. Scoop, Whitlock, Scrapplin’ lips, JA, SAS and certainly Wilbon.

Any chance of getting the house Negro here? Or is he too much of a coward. Give it to your gilr Jemele. She stepped up and came here, several times and took the wrath. And it seems we did make a small difference with her. I suspect Wilbon doesn’t have nearly the courage to step to us proper like.

Folks at the risk of pissing people off, we have to allow people to say what they feel and think. We can’t silence a MF because we dont agree. How are you going to stimulate thought and conversation if everyone agree on the same shit. We not all going to think alike, and agree on the same things, and we have to allow for that. Fact is though we share the same ancestry, we don’t all share the same degree of struggle.

From my perspective, I see wilbon and witlock differently. I’m not real familir with either of their work. I’ve read two coloums from witlock and nothing from wilbon, and I’ve never seen a full pti. So, i don’t have a tenor as to how wilbon respond to his blackness. witlock, i think he cares (he has a funny was of showing it) when he speaks, the thing that stand out to me is his concern for our young men and shootings. Becasue I share the same concern, I don’t lump him in as a sellout. Just because a brother is saying all the right things, and have all the cool phrases, that don’t mean he is not cutting a deal with the devil.. See the Vick saga.

I think where these brothers (wilbon & witlock) have fallen short, is that after the facts came out about Taylor’s death, these brothers had a golden opportunity to set the record stright, and to give Taylor the righteous honor he deserved, and bring perspective to the poor media reporting, and they failed to do so. Becasue there has been no retraction of their position, then ok… sellouts. But we should always let a MF speak his /her piece.

I just caught the last part of Out in the Open…..I am so sick of this “cutting ties” mantra…I really am. I am so sick of this diatribe about the friends or acquaintances or whatever. I am sick of that conversation being bought up in regards to Sean Taylor when, for goodness sakes, just stop it….please just stop it.

I don’t share your sentiment regarding monolithism in the black comunity. At this point it has become a war and every black person who garners white approval by criticizing us in their faces is, IMO, a traitor and a fool to boot. I have absolutely no evidence that Whitlock cares, his viscious attacks indicates to me just the opposite, that he hates the people who look like him and wishs they could be more like those who hate them at every turn.

Wilbon’s bully pulpit makes his treasonous behavior even more jarring. You may not feel comfortable with calling him a house Nigga. I don’t share any of those reservations.

You know…I can feel how many people might not like Wilbon because of what he said about Taylor, but calling him a house nigga is going to far.

He was wrong to try and paint Taylor the way so many others were doing, and he was wrong for not apologizing, but still some posters may be going to far.

I have read and heard numerous times where Wilbon has piped up and challenged the status quo. One of my favorite PTI moments was when Wilbon and Tony were talking about some usual baseball game that turned into a fight. Wilbon questioned why these fights are seen as a needed part of the game, while if two NBA players fight everyone labels them as thugs who need to be thrown out of the league. Tony wiggled his way around it, but Wilbon kept going. This is just one of the times I’ve seen him bring up such topics.

As I said, I feel like Wilbon was wrong for saying what he did. For that matter, ESPN’s coverage was ridiculous period, and they tried to make up for it with televising the funeral. But to lump him with Whitlock is a bit of a stretch…

kev,
Malcolm is quoted as saying that the worst thing that happened from our situation is that we learned to hate ourselves, so the self hatered that you see in wilbon and whitlock, well the problem is much greater that them. You see wilbon’s act of ommission as treasonous, I don’t have a quarrel with that. Given his public forum, and that I have never heard him accused of using the race card, I see your point.

Whitlock is our point of contention. I agree, whenever the white media come running to you to get a quote to support their racist points of view, that’s a problem. And when the white man says see, I told you so, and here is a black man to support me, thats a problem. Now, if there is something is what the brother is saying is valid, then I got to pay attention. Our young men shooting each other is a problem. Certainly the media distort this problem, but we can’t act like it’s not an issue. This is a great threat to our community, becasue it robs us of our future, and by the hands of someone that looks just like us. Now that’s some self hate for you!

I’m aware of the conditions that bring about this result. But when a young black man look at another young black man, and thinks it ok to take that life… We need to talk about that, and I don’t care who is listening.

To believe that fratracidal mentality comes from a void is to accept the fact that there is an inherent pathology within the genes of the African male…and increasingly the female.

No, we have to investigate the conditioning from 1492 to 2007. While your environment shapes you, one must overstand that to move from a negative environment, one must be strong in the desire to make a better life for oneself. But what if the emotions are manipulated in such a way that one becomes a lab rat, scientifcally conditioned for self destructive behaviours.

A study of pavlovian behaviour modification entails that the subject suffer the sge old reward and punishment metered out in equal measures. Eventually they do the bidding of the Dr. Frankensteins in the medical, pharmaceutical and media world. This is a deep subject to get into, but if you read Gunner Myrdals book, for one, you will see the blue print.

As for solutions? It will be harder to implemet based on the stage we enter the rescue mission, but none the less the solutions are there.

The only time I get to see PTI these days is IF I have time to watch it while I’m changing in the locker room during lunch time. I generally have mixed feelings about Wilbon, however, if he said what I’m guessing he said I’m done with him.

I hate to generalize, but I believe that Whitlock is from Indiana. I have lived in Chicago my entire life and I know for certain that black people from Indiana tend to be very color struck and tend to be very “Uncle Tomish” or “House Niggarish” Remember the KKK was founded in Indiana and they have to do whatever it takes to win white folks approval. I mean look at Whitlock. You know that white folks can’t stand fat people. They are laughing at him behind his back while he is shuckin’ and jivin’ for them and I really wish he would clean his greasy neck.

I have a question for the gentlemen on the site. We talk about solutions. One of my main problems are the people talking out of both sides of their mouth. I’m a black woman and when I see guys like Barkley speaking about racism I can’t help but be puzzled sometines. By this I mean his lack of dating black women. We have these black men and raise them, then some how we become a non factor when it comes to choosing a mate. I have many beautiful professional friends that can’t get a decent date because many of the eligible black men on their level won’t go out with them. Now I know I’m switching gears here but I would like to know your opinions on this subject and how it relates to raising our kids. I’m gonna tell you many young black girls suffer from low self esteem as a result of being rejected by young black boys. This leads to them acting out just trying to be noticed for all the wrong reasons. Or puts pressure on them to look more white with all the hair weave and hair straightning products. Just wanted to know your thoughts. Don’t get me wrong I really don’t mind dating a variety but when you reject your own race that spells self hatred. This is a huge problem in the black community.

I’m bi-racial (mom’s black, dad’s white). And I didn’t reject my own race when it comes to who I date socially. But if someone connects wth me on a emotional level then it doesn’t matter what their skin color is.

I dated several african-american (and one Afro-Canadian) girls when I was in highschool and college. We never could co-exist as anything other than 2 people who looked alike because the things I liked she thought meant I was selling out my race. Eventually… I decided ojust look for a person who fit with me, and that’s why my current girlfriend is a farmer’s daughter from Minnesota. Because she lkes what I like, knows references I make to stuff, and doesn’t think liking the Clash is akin to having a Swastika tattooed on my arm.

Then you are not who I’m talking about. I think I said men who are black that don’t date black women but then turn around and scream about racism. Listen the blackout in professional sports is not just limited to coaching and management, it also should include professional cheerleaders but it seems that even black men ignore this. I’m sorry but if a NBA team is majority black then why is it that out of maybe 30 cheerleaders there are only 5 who are people of color? We ,and by that I mean black women some how become invisible in the racism debate. Why? What I’m gonna say may not be popular but what Don Imus said is no different then what black women hear from black men everyday. Now I felt justified in my slamming of Imus. Cause when a brother is being mistreated in any areana I come to his defense. This is the question. If you don’t have a problem with the issues that black women face then how can you slam Imus? For many I don’t think it was about defending the sistas cause, since no one does that. I think it was more about getting another white dude that made a racist comment. Questionable motives perhaps? I’m asking us all to look in the mirror.

When it comes to Jason Whitlock, most of you are being kind. My significant other, who is a sportswriter, says a lot worse.

Also, if he had ever associated with anyone from the KKK, Whitlock would know that no matter how murderous we can be with each other, we’re no match for them. In my days as a reporter, I’ve run across the Klan. We could never be that vicious as a people.

On a totally unrelated matter, if being a fan of the Clash means that there’s something less than black about you Okori, then I’m right there with you, pal. I cried like a baby when Joe Strummer died and “London Calling” is still one of my ringtones.

I was a pretty hardcore punk in the 1980s, mohawk and everything. I caught some flack for that, but what I told the folks who stepped to me was that black folks created rock and roll music, we just allowed it to be taken away from us for some reason that I’ve never quite understood.

Fortunately, I managed to find a brother who shares those interests. In fact, he’s turned me on to some 60s rock music that I never even thought to listen to. There are more of us sistas who rock out there than you think. You just have to be patient and take the time to look for us.

The thing about Whiltock and Cosby and Oprah is they act like the only way for black folks to work for the betterment of us all is to publically align themselves with those who hate us at every turn. And 100% of the time their analysis is slipshod, superficial and lacking in critical thought. Also 100% of the time, they refuse to call out white America for it’s continued racism. You see, the best they offer is something along the lines of “Black folks need to better themselves and stop trying to blame somebody else for their problems.” But they NEVER, EVER, NEVER say in no uncertain terms that whites need to stop being so racist and need to stop blaming black folks for THEIR PROBLEMS.

Whitlock simple-mindedly places blame on a culture, that being Hip-Hop. But he never places blame where it truly belongs, on an American culture forged in the caldron of violence and racism and tempered with the steel of self-denial and willful ignorance.

Nah man, none of us, and I mean NONE of us needs to see Whitlock play David Duke while having the gall to call any black person KKK. I honestly think he needs to be shot for what he said last week.

Black folks may have created rock music, and Elvis may have stolen from Chuck Berry. But I’ll tell you this, on his BEST day, Berry never posses the musical genius of Elvis. In the first 5 years, dude was a monster.

More disclosure, for a good time, until I was 35 or so, I refused to date non-black women.

Even more disclosure, I was tired of being lonely and afraid that I’d never find a wife if I kept my dating base so small.

I fully understand the frustrations of black women in this matter. Hell, I’d be pissed off too. Thing is with me, once I decided to expand my base, and stop being a hypocrite, it was mostly a matter of time and place and situation. it happened the way it did and if I were to suddenly become single, simple numbers and my attitudes indicates I’d probably marry someone black next time.

As to a general consensus on how to go about things, I don’t think excluding any people on the basis of race only is wise, nor fair, nor justified.

Thanks. FYI my husband is white. I guess my problem is the lack of black female faces being seen while viewing any sporting event. I see so much blonde hair swinging from the beer commercials to the cheerleaders that I find myself pulling blonde hair out of my popcorn. LOL. But seriously it has to in some way lower the self esteem of young black girls. Who are certainly as beautiful and are definately better dancers. It just bothers me that no one talks about this. It seems that only racism that relates to black males gets attention.

I’ve dated black men all my life and honestly prefer them. My husband just would not accept no as an answer and pursued me into submission. The racism I see has magnified times 1000 since we’ve been together. Sadly I trust white people less and less as a result. My marriage has been tested as a result of this. My girlfriends find themselves dating white men not because they prefer to but because they show interest.

My wife knows exactly how I feel and she believes my feelings to be completely justified. I wouldn’t have married her if she didn’t. I wouldn’t marry any person, black, white, yellow or purple who didn’t understand exactly where I am politically.

I hear what you are saying sista Michelle as far as the cheerleaders. I tell my wife all the time I can’t stand watching that racist mess. So I’m suppossed to believe that they can only fined 2 sistas out of 15 cheerleaders that can dance. Man get the he11 out of here.

Plus if you ever notice there is a quota system when it comes to black cheerleaders. Even if a team has more then 3 black cheerleaders, there can never be more then 2 or 3 at a game. (Now I know that there are about 15 on each team in sports and that they rotate girls).

As far as the other things sista Michelle I undertstand where you are coming from
Reminds me how a dude told me how he worked at a white strip club (women) in Las Vegas and they basically had a quota on how many black strippers could work there a shift. So if there were 4 hour shifts no more then 4 black women could a shift.

As far as the Imus stuff………I was pissed because a lot of folks didn’t address the fact that basically he was calling the sistas who were dark ugly and the light skin sistas as being pretty. This color struck racism is something no one addressed.

A study done awhile back said that whites were more likely to feel comfortable around blacks that were lighter then blacks that were darker. Supposedly because that the lighter they were they felt that they had white ancestry.

Also last year they did a study that said dark skin black men were more likely to be convicted by a jury and do more jail time then black men who were light skin.

I also want to add that the cultural differences is a factor. When I come home after dealing with racism I want to conversate with somone who understands what I have been through. I think a lot of people mainly black men allow themselves to become Jason W. in their marriage. It’s like their white wife becomes the slave master not wanting their children exposed to black culture,( but she wants the money from that successful black man) even though in the eyes of America they are black. I have a child from a previous relationship and her father is black. Due to the racism she has faced being out with her white stepfather she has zero interest in dating white men. We live in the suburbs and she also is pissed at the fact that many young black men in her enviorment are only interested in dating white girls. She plays her PE loudly.

nba cheerleaders are chosen by management. beer commercials are geared towards young white adult males. where i live, the rural south, black men dating white women is rather rare. however it does appear to me that there are some brothers who do pursue white women solely

Ding, ding, I to was a cheerleader in high school. The best on my squad because during the dance routines the other girls couldn’t move like me. Most professional cheerleaders did not cheer in college. Most of them are wanna be models and actresses. Professional cheerleading doesn’t pay well and I had no desire to become an actress so I never tried out for one. I did actually call a professional basketball team and asked the dancing director what was the ratio of white, black, hispanic, and asian girls who come out and try out? Needless to say I was very disappointed with her answer since there were only 5 girls of color on the squad. She told me about even black and white, and a small number of other races.

Your welcome and I feel you completely. I just hear this from other interacial couples. Sometimes people want the person in front of them but not the black culture and everything that goes with it. If my husband looked like he would ever disrespect a person of color he would be divorced. He says he married Sista Soldier.

AWW, Okori this is were we part ways. I can’t stand soccer. I guess you misunderstood me. Blacks women tried out as much as white women did. I said other races asian,latino,etc. came out in small numbers.

The guy on the show who is black is saying how at their wedding reception all the white people separated themselves from the black ones. Okori the MI and Ohio State game was even brought up. LOL! KevDog this is the stuff I’m talking about.

In this subject I don’t have anything to add from the interracial perspective.

However I’m on record has having to be restrained from throwing a “friend” off a subway platform for basically saing he dated white women beacuse “black women are …..”. Just insert all the useless invictives that asses like him would use.

I personally have an issue with a African or a knee-grow justifying dating another ethnic person by putting African woman down. I even find myself appaled hearing European female Justyfying their choice of African males by dissing European males, there’s something very wrong with that.

But, like I said my perspective is different. As for the cheerleading, sorry I can’t get into that.

I have to disagree. Saying that means the black women aren’t qualified. That’s a joke. Have you seen the blacksploitation on vh1? It shows black women with to die for bodies being exploited by the music video industry. Not I doubt that any red blooded American male would not want to see these women dance. Beautiful women who aren’t paid half the money of their white counterparts.

Sista Michelle you make some very good points. I also agree about the white men not liking black women. Thats a myth. Now I have known in my day a few white dudes who were crazy about black women but have siad that they wouldn’t date one for fear of what family members or friends would say. Sadly when the subject came to just having sex with the answer was always yes. But they wouldn’t want anyone to know.

Now I have also heard black men say the same thing when refering to white women.

And Brotha Sankofa I have also almost slapped a few c@@ns for talking abd about sista. On the whole I don’t date them because “Insert ignorance”.

I think i know your feelings on this subject. I do agree with much of what I think you feel on the subject. I guess chearleading was just something that everyone could see so I used it as an example to make my point. Black women are discriminated against all the time. It just seems that no one cares to discuss the subject as if we don’t matter. We come out in full force for the brothers as we should. The same cannot be said for the sista’s I’m afraid.

It seems that since we have been in this country we have been objects of sexual desire but thats where it stops. It’s that fact that sickens me. I have a beautiful daughter and I don’t want anyone viewing her that way. It’s like we are not seen as beautiful in the media but we are seen as sexual toys. Remembere it wasn’t until Halle Berry was getting humped by Billy Bob Thorton that she received an Oscar. She’s played much more powerful roles. Same can be said for Denzel playing a corrupt cop. It’s like a subliminal message was being sent. He palyed Malcolm X like a champ but oh no they would never give him an oscar for playing a Muslim. That really pissed me off.

Very true sista thats one reason I can’t stand to watch TV or go to the movies. Even when they see us as beautiful(especially black women) it has to be a person that is beautiful in their eyes (I.E. European features and what not). Even the black females body has to be altered to be considered beautiful. Look at Serena, I have heard plenty of brothas who think her shape is out of this world. Yet I remember how on a few white sports talk shows they talked about how they didn’t like how her behind was so big and how that hse needed to lose weight. I called in and gave them SOBs a piece of my mind too.

but what i meant re the cheerleader thing is that if you don’t try out, we’ll never know if you’re qualified. Like if there’s a job interview, and you don’t go to it, how are you gonna complain to me that a less-qualified candidate passed you over?

and my girl thinks Serena is cute too. although, seeing as my girl is a personal trainer, it’s probably more to do with being thrilled to know how much Serena squats.

How is Chuck a hypocrite for calling out prejudices and dating white women. I think its a matter of preference. As a black man, I’m just looking for a woman who can connect with men, and race isn’t a part of that, I think it is limiting to close out a large portion of the population around you because of their skin color, it is also racist.

It’s interesting that you brought this up. Because I’m kinda dealing with the issue now. There’s a woman that I work with whom is white that I’m really interested in. However one thing that is stopping me from talking to her is my attitude towards white people. I wont lie, it has gotten worse since I entered college and a PWI, and since graduation I’ve come to realize more and more what type of world we live in.

Still though when it comes to love and a mate, I would rather hope that I could change my outlook. I’m African American and Puerto Rican, but you can tell by looking at me. I can honestly say that I’ve never limited my dating preferences, but I’ve never had an urge to date outside those two races until now.

I have a friend who isnt a big sports fan, but she can name a LOT of Black athletes that have white wifes and it just pisses her off. Why? She says that they should be able to find a black woman that makes them happy. I se the issue that is there with seeing all these marriages, but at the same time, I think it is unfair to group all these people together and judge them. That’s basically the same sterotyping tactic that is always used on us. These guys are individuals and have individual reasons for marrying the person that is in their life. Sometimes we may wonder, but at that same time I don’t think we know enough to say they “sold out” in a sense.

I understand that people “believe” that is it limiting to reject another race as potential mates, but what I don’t understand is the lack of sympathy some black men have for the plight of black women. It is not the black women who are acting like complete fools on the news (sports or otherwise). That ‘s why I was sooo upset with Marion Jones. Black women are the ones that defend these people. That whole Don Imus situation opened my eyes. D.L. Hughley and Damon Wayans got on white shows and said that he was right. That makes it easier for me because then I know who to support and spend my money on. Black women have there faults, as do white women. I truly believe this issue is soooo important. Do you guys realize that Obama is having a hard time getting black women to support him??? We are getting tired of being taken for granted. I was soo glad when Halle Berry finally got a white dude. I have a 9 year old daughter and I believe with my whole heart that my son-in-law will be white. I believe white men are tired of that shit too. After having said all of that, I dont mind the white woman having to put up with the same shit that black women have to put up with, i.e cheating, no child support , it’s kind of nice. (mass generalization, I know).

What plight do black women have, seriously. You don’t have anything against you than what other women have. If you want to say the plight is having to support black men, well by all means stop supporting black men, looking at the rise of marriage rates black men have to non-black women I would say in general black men will find a way to manage.

Trust me when I say this that there’s brothas out here dyin for some Black girl juice.

I’m thirsty now!

Throat all parched and shit lol

Seriously, there’s a reconnection that needs to be made for all of us as people. I could care less who you date. Just make sure you love them and give them what they need to love you as well. The children deserve a foundation of love that their parents are solely responsible to give them.

Fathers you are the first men your daughters love. You make an lifelong impression on their hearts and they’ll seek someone who commands respect. The same goes for mothers.

Mom’s stop letting your sons run over you, because it will come back to haunt them later in life.

There’s too much competition going on that transcends genders. The soul goal of a relationship is love one. It’s people out here using their spouses as steppin stones and ultimately get crushed when they paper they chase never loves them back.

Runnin around on their loved ones and then have the audacity to wonder what is missing. Honestly, I’ve been on both sides.

Whassup with simple happiness? Find it in your spirit people. It’s not a privilege to be in a relationship. It’s a responsibility. You gotta work on that shit every gdamn day until ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Be strong! I’ve never seen so many insecure folks as I see out there right now. Set aside the bs and love the one who gets lost in your eyes when they see you.

The plight that black women have are: raising black children on their own (especially black boys), being constantly embarrassed by the stupid actions of some black men, rap videos, womanizing, down low brotha’s who spread HiV and other sexually transmitted diseases, domestic violence……. I could go on and on.

Of all the possible things you could have said, you went with rap videos. Domestic violence isn’t just a black man problem. Trust me I know. I see the sheets. Everyone can be stupid, regardless of color.

and NICOLE trust me when I say that the person I am referencing…. you’re not fit to wash his boots.

I never realized that the “black boys” had such hypotizing powers that they could make a woman open up her legs and have sex with no protection so that she had a high chance of having a kid.

Cut the victim crap, that right there is why I sometimes find myself keeping away from some of the black women I meet on campus.

Black men on videos don’t embarass black women, it is the whore women on the videos who embarass themselves. DL dudes embarass themselves, domestic violence has no race boundaries. I could go on, but you seem to be suffering from the blame game disease and collective labeling syndrome.

Why don’t you stop generalizing and just look at the people you are with on a person to person case.

Are you kidding me? If the numbers weren’t so outrageous then I would agree with you. Problem is many black women are being left alone. I remember when I was a little girl watching tv. The Eagles were on with their wives and girlfriends. ALL the white men had white wives but so did many of the black men. Eric Allen, Seth Joyner,(He’s now married to a black women) Antoine Davis, and Wes Hopkins,to name a few. The other stars were single and the only black player with a black wife was Randall Cunningham. Why can’t you understand this. Please read my prior post. Like it or not in many situations problems arise when the children arrive. There are racist family members, it can really be a mess. Which is why I chose not to have anymore children. No other woman in this country faces raising children alone more than black women. Why is it if a black girl tries to date a ball player shes a gold digger but these white girls who otherwise wouldn’t look in the direction of a brother pursue them, live the high life divorce them and then take a lot of their money calling them niggers in the process even though they make sure they have that black baby for insurance?

@michelle
I really don’t understand why as a female its hurts you or you care though? I mean really I look at famous black women or other ethnic women and see they only do movies with white leading men, I don’t care. You know. I think relationships are so intimate that it is unfair to try to find why someone is with a person, you don’t know what connection those two people have. As for family members, you are right you could have some family members who hate you and that can be rough on the kids, but that is no different than having a family member who is the same race and is a career criminal in my mind. You marry the person, not the family.

As for raising children on their own, again no one makes women have sex with guys before they are married. Having a baby is a two-way street, to take an irresponsible woman out of the equation is unfair.

As for gold digger stuff, I’ve never looked at a black chick as a gold differ for going after a black guy, its only if she is going after him because he now has money, and that applies to white women too. They are no different in my eyes and from the guys I hang out with gold diggers of all colors are definantly a problem.

Look all I’m saying is we want eqaul support when sh.. goes down. Like when the black women was held against her will raped, beaten and forced to eat animal waste. If that was a white girl the media would still be talking about it. The story was in the news for 5 min. That’s not right and again my original point was, what does that teach our children about loving themselves? Young black girls need to feel pretty and wanted to.

“What plight do black women have, seriously. You don’t have anything against you than what other women have.”

Honestly, this should end the discussion. Michelle, DM is either being deliberately assinine or he’s so rigid in his thinking that further conversation on these matters is useless. Honestly, I wouldn’t waste any more time on him.

I was conversing with an Irish-immigrant co-worker and the subject of marriage came up and she said and I quote “I would never marry an Irish guy, all they do is get drunk and want to fight”. I guess that’s where the relationships between black males and females are headed. Having said that, all the hostility is somehow liberating.

I would say the most important source of a positive self image is going to come from the immediate family. If you instill that into your kids and filter the crap that comes on tv and the radio, you can bypass a lot of the negative image problems kids can develop.

As for in-laws they only cause problems if the person related to the meddlesome in-law allows them to. Sometimes you have to cut people off. I know my cousin married a white lady, his mom didn’t like it, so he cut off communication with his mom, he choose his family and he has been married for 10 years now. You choose the amount of power in-laws can have.

Ok white women get pregnant and have abortions, what do black women want a cookie because they actually have the kid? I dont understand the problem. If you do not want kids, do not have sex without protection. That goes for everyone and unless black women are being raped I don’t see why I should have sympathy for them for having a kid and getting ran out on. What do you expect when you engage in such behavior, half of these girls sleep with guys with no protection because they think having a baby will make the dude stay with them.

@Kev Dog
Like they say disension is the salt of life. This place would be boring if all everyone did was say “Amen”, you need someone here with a different viewpoint, one which they actually believe and are not getting paid to mouth off, as well.

Wow RIP PIMP C………….also well said Mizzo there are a ton of brothas out here who date and marry black women.

Please ignore Oprah and all the ignorant media. While they talk about black women that are single or single mothers.

They ignore the black men that many sistas (like myself), they ignore the black men that takes care of their kids (like myself) and they ignore the brothas that adopt and take care of children (like myself) that aren’t their own that their mates had by men that are no longer there for many reasons.

I as a black man know a lot of brothas that aren’t only married to sistas but have married black women that were single mothers and have adopted and raised the children as their own.

So while some of you are bashing brothas please take the time to throw a shout out to the brothas that I have mentioned. Some of you were raised by these brothas or have family members who are like these brothas.

We talk about sistas giving other sistas their props and I have no problem with this.

But do the brothas I mention ever get props?

I mean does the brotha who adopts and raises a child that isn’t his get any respect? You can see these brothas in every walk of life. Yes their are sistas who are raising children on their own. But what about the brotha who marries those same ladies and accepts her kids as his own.

I love my brothas and support them. I support them on this site on the regular. I’m just saying that sistas can feel like they haven’t been defended at times. That’s all. I appreciate those brothas who are doing the right thing. I don’t want to be viewed here as bashing brothas.

This entire conversation stemmed from Michelle wanting black women to get some love too. Of course there are many, many, black men who are stepping to the plate. I am extremely proud of those men. I am excited for those women who find those men. I have a wonderful black husband who is a great breadwinner, an extremely good father, sexy as hell and is sweet as pie. I also tell him that frequently. I love black men in general. Their intelligence, strength combined with their vulnerablity. It is just hurtful sometimes when it appears that the love is not reciprocated.

I hear you Michelle and it wasn’t really directed towards you. But we can go back and forth with this. I have known triffling heffas that were sistas. But I never let them to change my attitude of black women as a whole. I just looked at them as triffling women thats it.

All I want is people to acknowledge that their are good brothas out there.
The brotha bashing has gone on too long whether its on Oprah or in the MSWM. Just tired of it.

Nicole realize there will always be fools and self-haters.
Look at it the way I look at the media. For every c@@n @ss Wilbon there is a Mizzo. For every c@@n @ss Whitlock there is Dwil.

But the media puts more emphasis on Whitlock and Wilbon because its negative it sells. Yet you have to dig in the crates to find the Mizzos and dwils of the world. We as people…all people love negative even though we say we hate it. Think about it what do you remember more in a day. The person that held the door for you being nice or the person that gave you the finger on the highway.

As a journalist, I can understand everyone’s frustration when it comes to how black men (and black people in general) are portrayed. There are a couple of former editors of mine who are really glad that I’m out of the business and persuing a life of academia.

As a black woman, I have no problem with folks going outside the race if it’s purely a feelings thing. Hell, the man I was with before my current significant other was a nice, Jewish boy from Long Island.

Where I have a problem is when brothers tell me that they’re doing it because white (or Asian, or Latina) women are somehow “better” than black women.

That’s the kind of crap you use to fertilize your lawn. Especially when you take into consideration that some of us support brothers to our own exclusion at times. Back when I was much younger (and a whole lot more stupid), I damn near put a man through college. As soon as he got on his feet, he not only stepped out on me, he stepped out on me with more than one chick.

There are lots of good black men out there, just like there are lots of good black women out there. Where we begin to have problems is when we talk in generalities instead of specifics. If someone’s trifling, call them trifling. Don’t disparage everyone by painting them with the same broad brush. It took me a long time to learn that lesson, but now that I’ve got it, I live by it.

I can’t tell you how many times I have talked to mexican, asian, indian and white women at my job who say men in my race don’t know how to treat women. I’m gonna date or marry someone from another race.

I guess its the grass is greener on the other side belief. You always are interested in something that is foreign or different to you, and in the end you find out that despite the little differences everything is pretty much the same.

Yeap so true DavidMac. I remember growing up hearing black kids tell me that their moms were mean and thinking yeah my mom is mean too. Maybe all black moms are mean. Then I would go hang out with some of the white kids in my neighborhood and some of their moms was meaner then any vblack woman knew.

Origin,
I don’t know the Latina women you work with but all the Latinas, primarily Mexican, at my job hate on their own Latino men all damn day. I’m always like damn, don’t you all have something more to talk about it.

Secondly, in regard to mean moms, I can tell you right know my white grandma (my mom) didn’t use “a timeout”, she was mean as hell and didn’t ever hesitate to smack silly whether at home, in public, even in Church!

I am telling you, I got to college and I was in some class where students were talking about how White parents are all nice and do things like time out and whatever. I finally raised my hand and said, look I don’t know what you’ve seen on T.V. but my Grandma ruled the house with her hand and some big-ass costume jewelry rings that added that extra sting when she hit you.

Good comment about the fact that relationship problems are universal, black problems just get more hype. Really, considering the things black people have to deal with in the world, is it any real surprise that we struggle to make relationships work at times? Relationships take so much energy, so much attention, and when you are spending that on trying to figure out if your boss is racist and if the bank cheated you on your interest rate, well things tend to fall apart.

I also hate people who must justify their desire to date other races by putting down black people.

Thanks. That’s all I was really trying to say. Bottom line is all children need to feel loved and important in order to grow up with a healthy view of themselves. For God sake will someone please take Maury and his you are not the father show off network tv. That is some of the most ignorant sh.. I’ve ever seen. Just exploitation.

Any baseball fans out there? What do you guys feel about the Willis, Cabberra trade. I know I spelled his name wrong.

That is a killer line up the Tiger’s have now. Offense will not be a problem for them. Willis added to the pitching staff is nice to. I think your White Soxx will be bad for a minute. Look on the bright side. You guys did win a World Series a few years back. Cherish the memories!GOOOOO TIGERS!

But, and this is all I’ve got to look forward to, Miguel has what can safely be described as a bit of a weight problem. Maybe he balloons up to the size of Hell (an actual town in Michigan, go look it up.)

But yeah the Sox are gonna be bad for a little while. Although whenever the drunkards in Wrigley get out of line I just show the ring.

I read about 8 words of Whitlock; one can anticipate the nature of his column (if you mean by column, words put together in such a manner as to satisfy the myopic social outlook of large numbers of people who own stock in that company). Really, Whitlock should be ashamed of himself although it’s pretty obvious one has to have self-respect to have shame and he certainly doesn’t have that.

in his dec. 4 column on sean taylors funeral. washington post sports writer thomas boswell seemingly takes a shot at michael wilbon and other members of the sports media who rushed to judgement on sean taylor`s life and death.

Whitlock is just doing what he is told from captain boss. Malcolm X once taught, that to understand things like this, you have to look at history, and history teaches us that there once were 2 types of slaves. 1 that worked in the fields from sun up to sun down, and 1 that worked in the big house with is master.

The one in the house loved his master. I say he LOVED his master, more than the master loved himself. If the boss felt ill or got sick the house-negro would say ‘what’s the matter boss? We sick?

Notice the house negro said WE SICK, and we still have a lot of house negros running around.

People’s dating habits have always fascinated me, and I’m late to the party, oh well.
And for the people that brought up the Clash, how can you not like Bad Brains? They damn near created hardcore punk, though the Clash wasn’t exactly hardcore.

Floyd can handle pressure, he handled it from Zab, who hits harder than hatton, Castillo, before he was washed up, Ndou, another tremendous power puncher, and hell Oscar De La Hoya at Jr. Middleweight. There is going to be no pressure that Hatton can throw at him, that Floyd hasn’t experienced before and from far busier and more powerful boxers.

Hatton on the other hand has been terrible at 147. He was given a gift decision when he fought Collazo, because Collazo had him hurt numerous times with uppercuts, plus he showed at 147 he can’t sustain his pressure. The next guy he fought at 147 was Urango, Urango killed him with uppercuts again and had Hatton hurt, and Hatton couldn’t hurt him. Plus he ran out of energy again and started all his huggin bs. He beat a way past prime Castillo and that is it at 147.

So what do we know, Hatton has no stamina nor power at 147, so his pressure will fade drasticlly into clinching, and in LV they don’t tolerate that crap. So you will have hatton jumping at Mayweather and getting picked off all night. It is going to be a boxing clinc.

Let me help you out Okori, don’t buy the fight. Wait until Floyd whoops this nobody, and then get ready for the Mayweather vs. Sugar Shane or Cotto match.

Since we are talking about welters, how about a write up on the potential fight between Kermit Cintron and Paul “The Punisher” Williams.

GMP: I like Bad Brains too. But I think the Clash was more consistent. They put out more good albums, and didn’t dissolve as often as Bad Brains did.

first off DavidMac…. Ricky Hatton isn’t a nobody. When you’re the legit undisputed Jr. Welterweight Champion of the World, with victories over Jose Luis Castillo and Kostya Tszyu (who he handed only his second-ever loss) and are undefeated, you aren’t a nobody. Secondly… he beat Castillo and Urango at 140, not 147. His only fight at 147 was Collazo. Thirdly….. before Zab faded out (as he has in every big fight he’s ever had) he was giving Mayweather trouble,as was De La Hoya. Look I know people want to imagine Mayweather as god in boxing gloves, but let me ask you a question. Has Floyd EVER had a win as big as Hatton’s over Kostya Tszyu, a guy who incidentally Floyd ran away from like his shorts were on fire?

Igave Hatton 12th-round TKO because of sustained pressure. In order to get Hatton off of you you have to hit him with a shot he respects. Name me the last knockout Floyd had at 147. At 130, 135, and to a lesser extent 140 he was a man apart. But now…. this could be different. Should be fun though.

Hatton is a nobody, outside of Kosta he fought no one, and looking back on that fight, seeing how Kosta arrived in the country late for training and was said to have been terrible in training leading up to it, it is no surprise he won the fight.

Castillo was washed up, he shouldn’t have won the qualifier to meet Hatton, that was a gift decision and everyone saw that, plus the fact tha the gets no money from any of his fights because of the lawsuit with Coralles has taken away his hunger.

He beat Urango at 140, my bad, and that hurts him even more, because he couldn’t sustain his pace at 140 either after the 147 Collazo fight.

Zab did give him problems, he never hurt floyd though, and last time I checked Floyd won the fight. Now tell me how Hatton is going to pressure Floyd harder than Zab in the first 4 rounds, when he can’t even mount effective pressure on Collazo or Urango before going for the clinch?

As for the De La Hoya fight, Oscar never gave Floyd trouble in that fight, Floyd was on auto-pilot the whole fight, wheter he was rolloing punches or just dodging everything Oscar was throwing and breaking him down. And floyd did this coming in at 147 in the ring, again Oscar at 154+ in the ring. He can take Hatton’s power or lack thereof and he can take the pressure, he always does.

So lets compare their pedigree, Hatton beats a washed up Castillo and ready to retire Kosta.

Floyd beats, Sharamba Mitchell, Deigo Coralles, Castillo (TWICE), Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir (who Vernon Forest almost go knocked out by at 154 this year), and Oscar De La Hoya, and lets not forget the clinc he put on Gatti.

Are you serious, are you really saying Hatton has faced better competition. Then you try to throw out Mayweather ducking, tell me why Hatton didn’t fight Paulie Mallenaggie this year when Floyd had said he was retired?

If Hatton can’t score a flash knockout in the first 3 rounds, this fight is going to be a UD or TKO.

Hindsight’s 20-20. Did you honestly think, at the time the fight was announced, Ricky Hatton had a chance at beating Kostya Tszyu? I know I didn’t. Kostya Tszyu was a borderline hall-of-famer with one career loss, and Hatton handled him. Kostya (who would have given Floyd all he wanted by the way) beat Mitchell IN HIS PRIME twice, KTFO’d Judah in one round and destroyed him forever, and cleaned out the division. He made Kostya Tszyu, one of the greatest champions of the last decade, quit on his stool.

Secondly DavidMac you’ve got your competition all out of order. at 130, 135, and 140 he beat Corrales, Castillo (although I thought Jose won the first fight), and Gatti and an equally past-his-prime Mitchell. At 147 he did beat Baldomir in one of the worst fights I have ever watched, and Judah who has never had the mentality to be great, and De La Hoya. Now though Mayweather, who used to be a boxer with good power but bad hands, is just a boxer…. and his hands are still bad.

Oh one more thing. Next time Floyd knocks someone out at 147, a naturally bigger guy by the way who’s stronger than him, let me know. If Floyd wins it will be by UD, SD, or MD.

I’m not basing the names off weight class, I’m just talking about competition in general. Floyd fought better opposition, period.

As for power, Floyd definantly had it at the lower weight classes, it is not there now Welter, but at Jr. Welter and lower he still has it, he also has brittle hands and that stops him from really committing with punches, but speed and technique trumphs power everyday.

Also when did I say Floyd would knock anyone out. I said UD or TKO from Floyd if Hatton didn’t knock him out in 3.

The fact is the promoters are doing a heck of a job boosting up the fight, the problem is it is one-sided as hell. Floyd has superior technique, greater speed, fought better opposition, is 2 inches taller, and has more reach.

Judah was coming off of a choke-job so epic against Baldomir that words can’t do justice to it. He beat Mitchell when he was past his prime. No one in the world thought Baldomir had a chance. And I, and a whole bunch of other people, think the first Castillo fight was super-super-super close. Their opposition is about equal.

Look I’m not saying Ricky Hatton is Chavez or anything, but he punches hard to the body, never gives up, and is tougher than Mayweather. There has not been a fight, not one, where Floyd had to answer questions about his guts. I guarantee you this will be that fight. We’re gonna find out whether Floyd has huevos to go along with his money. By the way Floyd…. Shut up about being the best fighter ever. When you’re the World’s Best Welterweight, the World’s Best Middleweight, invent the term pound-for-pound, and have more knockouts than some people have fights, get back to me.

If I’m not mistaken Floyd whopped Baldomir first then came back for Zab, and its not like Zab has been garbage since, he put up a hell of a fight against Cotto. That was a legit big win. Baldomir is a hell of a fighter as well, again this guy took a beating from Vernon Forrest and almost started an upset, Floyd beat him hands down. I agree the first Castillo fight was close but he proved himself the second one. He has simply fought the better opposition though, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Can you agree with that?

Hatton is a nobody, he is no Joe Calzaghe. He has fought nobody opposition, and got his fight with Kosta at just the right time. Since he has fought in the states he has struggled greatly against mediocre AT BEST competition. He never gives UP! He quit fighting Urango and hugged the dude for a win, he got his assed whooped by Collazo and huged him to a controversial decision win. Hatton doesn’t have the motor any more to sustain his attack and is vulnerable at 147 in that his power is not there and his conditioning is not good.

There is nothing to find out about Floyd. He went in the ring 147 on a 154+ Oscar De La Hoya, withstood his pressure and outboxed him and hurt him enough, where the body shots he gave Oscar had Oscar closing up.

Floyd has shown his chin and heart in fights, Hatton never has, the one who has to prove that he can step up is Hatton not Floyd, and I don’t see it happening at all.

As for Floyd’s legacy, he will go down as one of the best fighters EVER to step in the ring. His technique is legendary his defense impeccable. He is a legend. As for knockouts, they aren’t need, its about the Ws not the KOs.

It was Baldomir-Judah (greatest gag job in the last 10 years), then Baldomir-Mayweather, followed by Mayweather-Judah. And if you really wanted to include tough competition you would have included Emanuel Augustus, Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, and Genaro Hernandez…. not Baldomir, a blown-up Gatti, a past-his-prime Mitchell, and a blown-up De La Hoya.

Legends aren’t made until they get in rough fights for 12 rounds. The only time he fought a guy who swarmed him and crowded him for 12 hard rounds he almost lost the fight. No there is something to find out about Floyd. Is he getting soft? Watch 24-7. And watch him talk about how much his body hurts, and how much money he makes. Floyd can’t be called a legend because legends clear out divisions. Somewhere Stevie Johnston is waiting for his shot, and so is Joel Casamayor, Kostya Tszyu, Acelino Freitas.

This isn’t Arturo Gatti. This isn’t Carlos Baldomir. Floyd better be prepared for a war.

Joel Casamayor? Are you serious, the dude who lost his Ring magazine belt or barely lost it because of such a poor showing against a nobody. Nope Casamayor is done, I would have expected you to name “baby bull” diaz.

Kostya is done. He quit after he lost, thats not the mark of a true great.

Acelino Freitas, the guy who got killed by “BB” Diaz and quit on his stool. Nope

Legends don’t have to get in 12 wars. Thats how you end up brain dead.

Pretty boy fights the sweet science in its highest form. He hits and does not get hit. He circles around he and picks you apart. That is boxing, not that mexican pride BS, you hit me , now I hit you crap.

Yeah Floyd had a rough fight against Castillo, but why aren’t you bringing up the rematch where he showed his superior skill to the fullest and hands down won.

I really can’t believe you have the nerve to throw Jesus Chavez out ther, that kid is still a prospect.

Come Okori.

Hatton is outclassed physically and technically. Floyd definantly has heart and has shown it in the ring. Floyd has an underrated chin, and underrate power. Hatton is overrated in every way possible. I will say he does talk a good game, but I haven’t seen it in the ring since he stepped up in class.

no. Floyd fought Jesus Chavez (super-tough jr. lightweight) on the way up, and beat Carlos Hernandez on the way up (crowd-pleasing bleeder and swarmer) too. Not Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. Come David. If you’re gonna try and school me know the difference.

Joel Casamayor at 130 was a defensive genius, and a terrifically artistically dirty fighter. Freitas was a tremendous power-puncher at 130. Stevie Johnston was the equal of Mayweather in technique at 135. No one wanted to fight him…. except Castillo. Kostya Tszyu beat everyone in front of him until Hatton, and cleaned out his division.

And i said 12 hard rounds. not 12 wars. You misunderstood me. Every great fighter, team, or athlete sooner or later has a night where they have to dig down deep and pull the win out. Even the best (Ray Robinson, Michael Jordan, 1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers) had a few.

Dmac didn’t you just say Mayweather didn’t have power at 147? So how can someone not have something and then have themselves be underrated for that very thing? Look I know you don’t want to respect Hatton because he’s white and english. But these are the facts, and they are indisputable: Floyd’s first title was at 130. Hatton’s first title was at 140. Thusly Hatton’s bigger, and thus stronger. Secondly Floyd has been talking a lot about how his hands and his back hurt. So Hatton’s coming in fitter. Thirdly…. We’ll see Monday Morning who won.

I will agree that Casamayor and Kostya are legends. Stevie Johnston too, bit what does that have to do with Floyd?

As far as I’m concerned Floyd had his watershed moment the first Castillo fight and he hasn’t looked back since. He has been elite since he asserted himself on Castillo in the 2nd fight.

As for Floyd, yes he doesn’t have great power, but he isn’t as feather fisted as Paul Williams. Floyd can hurt you and back you up, he just doesnt use his power that much. I hope you understand what I’m getting at. He doesn’t have flat I’m going to bruise you up and break you down power but his punches do hurt and sometimes people do not notice that or look over it.

Being a Brit and white has nothing to do with my dislike and contempt for Hatton. I respect the hell of of Joe Calzaghe and told my friends he was goign to whoop Jeff Lacy’s ass. I disklike Hatton because he is a manufactured piece of fluff. He has not faught anyone. He has no technique. The biggest gripe is that he can no longer sustain the fighting style that made him famous and resorts to doing nothing put throwing one punch and clinch for dear life. Plus the fact that he stole the belt from Collazo.

Also since when does your starting weight class mean you are naturally bigger? Hell look at Tommy Hearns, Paul Williams, Margarito, and Bernard Hopkins. Either way that point is irrelevent.

Hatton is 5’6″ and Floyd is 5’8″. Floyd has a longer reach, Hatton has shown he can’t hurt anyone at 147, Floyd has taken on power 147 punchers and not been phased. Hatton is not going to outmuscle Floyd. Sorry

Floyd always talks about how he hurts, everyone knows it, its nothing but gamesmenship. Hatton is coming in fitter, that is great, hopefully it hasn’t drained everything out of him to do it. You are right we will see Monday what time it is.

Yo, I just want to say that I completely enjoyed DM and Okori’s debate on boxing even though I know nothing about the sport. Very good discussion, and both of you supported your points well. Here’s what I learned.

Pretty Boy apparently beat this Castillo dude twice, but Okori appears to only focus on the first fight.

DM minimizes Hatton’s fight against the Japanese dude by saying that cat quit and was washed up, but apparently nobody knew this before he lost.

Floyd apparently has problems with his hands (explain this please) while Hatton has stamina and technique problems.

Floyd has calcium deposits in his knuckles that never fully healed, which apparently cause crippling pain and prevent him from throwing the type of combinations that he used to. This is the equivalent to a basketball player having a chronic knee condition or a pitcher having a torn rotator cuff. It truly is a testament to Mayweather’s talent that he has done what he has with hands that are that bad.

And D-Mac: Hopkins was a 160-pounder for the balance of his career, and when he moved up to 175 pounds, he had the benefit of a: facing an absolute gatekeeper in Antonio Tarver and B: hiring Mackie Shilstone to get him into pitch-perfect shape. Hearns isn’t a fair comp. He’s a freak. 6-1 at 147? Come on. that’s unfair.

And you’re right Castillo lost the second fight clearly and cleanly. But the way Mayweather reacted to the 1st fight, and the way he’s talked and then fought since, makes me like Manny Pacquiao more than “Money”Mayweather. If you want to act like you’re the best fighter in the history of the sport you do what the greats do. When a guy’s ready to go, you get him the hell out.

Stevie Johnston is a guy that the true legends face. If you want the best comp available you fight Johnston instead of Victoriano Sosa, Freitas instead of Philip NDou.

And the reason I focus on the first fight is that’s the sort of fight Hatton wants, and Mayweather didn’t do well against it. Plus boxers never deal with pressure. They need room to move.

oh and Allen: Kostya Tszyu is Australian by way of Russia, not Japanese. And he was a serious, serious BMF. Like he doesn’t look it but he was for a while the toughest guy in his weight class for a decade. http://www.boxing.net.au/images/Tszyu2.jpg.

Sorry I had to go to work. You like the Rangers. Good pick to come out of the East. I like San Jose in the west. Both teams are strong in goal. What’s up with Ottawa? Did Ray Emery lose his job to Gerber? Emery is struggling this year and Gerber is doing quite well. Just wondered.

Okori,
Absoulutely, I watched them in the playoffs last year. They played well until the finals. Heatley did his thing though. Ray really struggled in game 5. I’m sure that’s was a factor in him losing the starting position.

Very interesting stats. The purpose of showing these are for what reason?

“You can draw your own conclusions as to what this means”.

What does that mean? Does it mean African people are inherently savage, barbaric and fratricidal, or due to the inherent cast system in America Inc. which disappropriately and directly affects us we act out both the projected and self full filling expectations of ALL segments of society in America Inc.?

I am always sceptical of statistics when delivered without specific context. Such as Africans are 13% of the American Inc. population. Based on what survey and who is classified under what criteria. Go down to places like Ft Lauderdale, Harlem, Atlanta or South Central for example and you’ll see a lot of African people. Take note of the numerous “darkies” crossing the border over to Canuckustan due to Bushes new immigration policies, all so called undocumented workers.

Anyway the above is beside the point. Yes we kill each other a lot. All other ethnic groups kill us a lot…just Google incidents of failed grocery store hold ups and you’ll see how while America Inc. is inherently violent, it tends to eat the African young more than any other in this caste system.

One final note. Google the number of Europeans who kill each other, compile your own stats and you’ll see that places like Columbine, V Tech and other places are not isolated. Road rage, suicides, spousal and children killings all add up to a different statistics than the kool aid the media gives us to drink. Violence is not an African community phenomena, it is as American as apple Pie, baseball, the KKK and the misunderstood “right to bare arms”.

I’m a Republican and I’m not a Klansman or step and fetch it. Those numbers are valid though. But the term black on black is overused. Most crime is commited against people who are the same race. Whites are most likely going to get robbed by a white person, blacks by blacks, hispanics by hispanics, asians by asians, and native americans by whites.

DavidMac I often don’t agree with you, but I also have no aversion to agree with positive statements.

“….the term black on black is overused. Most crime is committed against people who are the same race. Whites are most likely going to get robbed by a white person, blacks by blacks, Hispanics by Hispanics, Asians by Asians, and Native Americans by whites.”

This I agree with. They numbers are sobering I question the context of the numbers if they are out of context then it invalidates them in my eyes.

Plus traditionally African people are for the most part social conservatives. I don’t see you as a Klansman, I see you as misguided because you confuse your conservatism – which is not a bad thing – with Republicanism which is a bastard child of the original Republic philosophy. No African should call themselves a Republican because that’s a horse you can’t win with. Not with the number of White Supremacist, misogynist’s serial murderers and religious infidels that claim to represent that fan base.

Since Tyson went down the rabbit hole, I haven’t really followed boxing except on the periphery.

As a former boxer and wrestler, I will go with the skilled boxer if he is allowed to box and not get into a wrestling match. Floyd can’t afford to win ugly, not with the sentimental favourite being Hatton.

Tyson getting rid of Rooney is what caused his fall, period. If he would have stayed with him, he would definantly be a Hall of Famer. All he is now is a would have been.

As for being a Republican, I agree whole heartidly for what the party stands for, and it has lost direction, but there is a movement that is pulling us back to where we need to be. As for nothing liking Republicans because of the people within it, the Democratic party has its share of the same people you hate in the Republican party.

True about the Democrats, I am of the mindset currently that liberals are as insideous and dupicious as the Republicans. That’s why it’s dangerous to be involved with either party as is.

As with Tyson, while Rooney an Da’Matto (however his name is spelt) were good for Tyson professionally, they were only interested in putting a performing animal onto the stage to enhance their reputation.

Mike Tyson was/is a fucked up individual who need psychological help. He was a victim of neglect and abuse, this was why it was easy to channel is rage into his fists. They probelm was he was never taught to deal effectively with his rage outside and even inside the ring.

I don’t think Rooney or D’Mato intentionally ignored Mike just to fight, especially D’Mato, he cared for him like a son.

I think none of them knew he was bipolar, they probably thought he was just a kid acting out and didn’t connect the dots that he is actually ill and needs medication.

@Mizzo
I like Mike Tyson and wish I could have saw what he could have become, but every time he stepped up in opposition he was beaten. The only exception I have is Lennox Lewis, Mike had him beat and pulled his punch back that would have knocked him out. He took a dive in that fight, and that fight most certainly would have gave him a HoF nod.

Perhaps my choice of words for his condition was the wrong one. I too feel Mike is at heart a good person, but in his case we have a conflux of the brutish Mandingo and the Eurocentric lusts for battling slaves, the notion that an African man can behave a sensitive and fragile psyche.

The only difference between Mike Tyson and most other boxers who have been cast aside on the trash pile of his-story was his potential and the hype.

Still I would prefer we as a community reach out to him and give him some love and support, as well as others, instead of throwing our hands up and say he is lost.

I don’t think people have thrown mike awy. I know Mike has no money, now but there are alot of people out there helping him get money to pay off his debt, either by giving him jobs to train or just showing up. There is a lot of public good will towards Mike, black and white, even if the news ignores it.

As for Mike’s opponents, well through no fault of his own when he was getting his push there was really no big names out there for him, then he went to jail and when he came back out it was down hill even more.

I mean if you think about it the fact alone that he lost to Buster Douglas shows he was never an elite fighter. Elite fighters don’t lose to Buster Douglas. Also lets not forget he ducked away from Big George when he was making his comeback.

Mike was an elite fighter. Buster Douglas’ win was inspired by the death of his mother. I will admit that Mike was caught up in super stardom, but up until that point Mike proved to be invincible. I’ll never forget where I was and who I was with when Mike was clawing for his mouthpiece.

SEC. 899B. FINDINGS.
`(8) Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents.

@Mizzo
How can you say Tyson was elite, who had he fought. I mean lets list it out. Look at real HW HoF guys, Joe Louis, Ali, Norton, Holmes, Foreman, Lewis, Fraiser, Schemling, Moore, Patterson, and the like. They fought the best and dominated, who is the highest ranking win on Tyson’s win list, a old washed up coming out of retirement Holmes, who got beat because his hands got caught in the ropes.

Tyson was a beast, but he faught absolutely nobody. When he finally did face tough guys, Holyfield and Lewis he got beat unamiously.

exactly DMac. Boxers are held to a different standard. They are judged against the men who shared the era with them. So while he was a terror he did lose to the two other universally recognized greats of his era convincingly. he wasn’t outpointed. he was beat the hell up by Holyfield in the first fight, and quit in the second fight. and Lewis beat him up too.

I read through this comment thread and you commenters have managed to take the issue of black-on-black crime and the loss of human life and reduce it to a discussion about out-of-their-prime boxers…nice work…way to stay focused on the issue at hand.

My favorite part…

When someone posts that 8000 blacks were killed in one recent year versus 3900 military personnel over the course of a multi-year war…and one or two people dismiss it with rhetoric about how statistics are flawed and that the poster was republican. Nice work…black-on-black crime solved with a simple dismissal…Idiots!

FYI – the reason that I’m not posting my thoughts/beliefs on how to begin to solve the issue……it doesn’t appear from this thread that anyone really wants to hear/talk about that…you’d rather talk about “Black Power” work-cubicle posters, the who’s who of “sell-outs” and out-of-work boxers.

The two great fighters of my time were Ali and Tyson – each for their own unique abilities. In a sport where the aggressor is usually viewed as the more talented fighter, Ali could out-point and beat his opponents senseless while moving backwards – unheard of in the heavyweight division. Tyson, on the other hand, was simply a well-trained, well-oiled fighting machine who punched with his entire body. More importantly, his opponents feared him. Re-watch Tyson vs. Spinks or Tyson vs. Holmes and watch their faces when the opening bell rings. Buster Douglas beat Iron Mike – no argument there. However, I will always believe that night to be one of extremes. Buster had the best night of his career while Mike, for whatever reason(s), had the worst.