Weirdly enough, the only Pokémon with No Guard and Close Combat is the Machamp line, which gets STAB on it. Pinsir gets non-STAB Close Combat, though.

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Staraptor also gets non-STAB Close Combat, and it's the reason it got shunted to BL in Gen 4 because Brave Bird + Close Combat nuked the metagame - it was also quite popular in ALL CAP since it was quite adept at wiping out Arghonaut and Collossoil, with the SubRoost Set causing problems for Syclant, Pyroak, and Voodoom. It was even strong enough to be able to threaten Kitsunoh with a 2HKO from Brave Bird.

So yeah, Close Combat has nothing to do with fists/arms. (The Natural/Breed list now even includes Growlithe. Snubbull, Teddiurda, and Zangoose [Level-up] could all get it before)

I wouldn't worry about flavor when it comes to movepools. Most of the movepools that tend to win combine good competitive and flavor elements. Or at least, I always try to balance those in my submissions. I thought Tomohawk's movepool went a bit overboard, but I'm a harsh critic of those things.

Would Air Slash be allowed in Aurumoth?, It's not really great as a coverage move due to it not really hitting anything that Bug or Psychic don't hit SE already bar fellow Bugs, all of which are neutral to it (in OU at least) and it's weaker than most other coverage moves, so it's more of a flavour move for the Moth/Butterfly-like mons than anything.

I dunno, the animation and description for it implies that it's for something that can move very suddenly, and Aurumoth seems kind of a little too floaty for me to picture using it. How about Air Cutter instead? I can picture that one better, as I can imagine it waving its shells in quick succession to create wind.

Would Air Slash be allowed in Aurumoth?, It's not really great as a coverage move due to it not really hitting anything that Bug or Psychic don't hit SE already bar fellow Bugs, all of which are neutral to it (in OU at least) and it's weaker than most other coverage moves, so it's more of a flavour move for the Moth/Butterfly-like mons than anything.

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Nope. It's a VGM and I never specified it as Allowed.

Same goes for Aerial Ace, Hurricane, Drill Peck and pretty much any other half-decent Flying-type attack.

Moderator

My comments about Close Combat never mentioned hands... I'm not even saying that Close Combat on Aurumoth would be a horrible slight on its movepool flavour, nor am I even telling people not to put Close Combat in their movepools due to flavour. I am just pointing out what kind of precedent the move has on similar Pokémon, and people can take that any way they want. That's what I thought this thread "was for".

Also I keep forgetting to say this, but if anyone is worried about how legendary vs pseudolegendary is going to work on Aurumoth in terms of precedent, both already don't fit extremely well. Namely, no 600 BST Pokémon has three abilities.

Am I the only one that think that Aurumoth could be Genesect before it was genetically altered by Team Plasma. You could make a whole game about that.

Team Plasma finds a fallen angel Pokemon and use it's DNA to create their own super being. It's like Giovanni and Mewtwo all over again.

I think we could make vague reference to that in the description, just something like, "Scientists are interested in it's potential". I can totally imagine Aurumoth being encased in armour and maving it's wings removed (That sounds morbid...sorry)

Genesect's description:

"This ancient bug Pokémon was altered by Team Plasma. They upgraded the cannon on its back."
"This Pokémon existed 300 million years ago. Team Plasma altered it and attached a cannon to its back."

Aerial Ace and Acrobatics are not allowed? I think that they would be no competitive reason to use these moves ... But they would fit into the butterfly theme -> flavour. Are at least Bounce and Pluck allowed?

Am I the only one that think that Aurumoth could be Genesect before it was genetically altered by Team Plasma. You could make a whole game about that.

Team Plasma finds a fallen angel Pokemon and use it's DNA to create their own super being. It's like Giovanni and Mewtwo all over again.

I think we could make vague reference to that in the description, just something like, "Scientists are interested in it's potential". I can totally imagine Aurumoth being encased in armour and maving it's wings removed (That sounds morbid...sorry)

Genesect's description:

"This ancient bug Pokémon was altered by Team Plasma. They upgraded the cannon on its back."
"This Pokémon existed 300 million years ago. Team Plasma altered it and attached a cannon to its back."

That could so be Aurumoth

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I can't see that... At all. Aurumoth and Genesect aren't even based on the same type of bug. Even if you could argue that Aurumoth is more of a paleozoic roach than a moth, they still resemble nothing of eachother beyond their Bug-typing. I could honestly go on, but nobody else is likely to even humor the idea, so no. If you want to submit that during the Dex submission stage, though, go ahead and do that.

WAIT WAIT, what? Since when is Aerial Ace in any way a VGM (on Aurumoth) that needs to be restricted? What in the world is Aurumoth ever going to use unstabbed Aerial Ace on?

Furthermore, it fits flavor absolutely fine, and WASN'T disallowed.

There's a difference between VGMs and VGMs for a CAP. For example, is Charge Beam a VGM on Aurumoth? I have a hard time believing it is if the movepool also contains Tail Glow and Thunderbolt. I'm looking for clarification now, rather than later, when my movepool is deemed illegal for speculative reasons.

Aerial Ace and Acrobatics are not allowed? I think that they would be no competitive reason to use these moves ... But they would fit into the butterfly theme -> flavour. Are at least Bounce and Pluck allowed?

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I don't think Pluck fits Aurumoth at all, the description mentions pecking and Aurumoth has nothing to peck with. It's reserved for bird-pokemon (and Rattata/Bidoof for some reason), while Aurumoth doesn't even have visible mouthparts.

Acrobatics also doesn't fit that well - only Flying types, high-speed or monkey pokemon get it. The only ones that don't fit the bill have some playful/tumbling aspect like Volbeat/Illumise making patterns in the sky. The exception is Eelektross which I can't explain, but that does have Levitate so it is like a Flying-type in that respect. It's also a VGM.

WAIT WAIT, what? Since when is Aerial Ace in any way a VGM (on Aurumoth) that needs to be restricted? What in the world is Aurumoth ever going to use unstabbed Aerial Ace on?

Furthermore, it fits flavor absolutely fine, and WASN'T disallowed.

There's a difference between VGMs and VGMs for a CAP. For example, is Charge Beam a VGM on Aurumoth? I have a hard time believing it is if the movepool also contains Tail Glow and Thunderbolt. I'm looking for clarification now, rather than later, when my movepool is deemed illegal for speculative reasons.

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We have an unchanging list of VGMs specifically so we don't get situations like these where people say "but it's fine so who cares" and try to add stuff that wasn't allowed. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference what you think will or will not be competitive because that isn't the point - the point of the whole system is to avoid bloating movepools.

If you wanted it to be Allowed, you should have pointed it out during the Attacking Moves Discussion. As it stands, nobody bothered to do so and as such it isn't on any lists, thus is disallowed.

Note that I had already added Aerial Ace to my list of "which VGMs should be removed?" in the thread on that subject, so very likely it will not be a VGM next CAP if others share your opinion (and to be honest, I am of the same opinion really). But you're not helping anyone by complaining here.

To clarify, you are not allowed to add any VGMs that I didn't specify as being Allowed on the move lists and if you do have one then your movepool won't be slated.

This does seem weird. Surely perfect accuracy moves and non-bird-related Flying moves are great flavour on this CAP. Surely it's only a VGM for Scyther.

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It's not a VGM for Scyther, it's a VGM for... well, last generation some people used it to get a guaranteed OHKO on Breloom and Heracross. It should really have been taken off when I updated the lists last, but for some reason I didn't do so. But abilities do not affect the VGM lists, remember, hence why Dynamicpunch is not a VGM.

It's not a VGM for Scyther, it's a VGM for... well, last generation some people used it to get a guaranteed OHKO on Breloom and Heracross. It should really have been taken off when I updated the lists last, but for some reason I didn't do so. But abilities do not affect the VGM lists, remember, hence why Dynamicpunch is not a VGM.

SECONDING THIS SENTIMENT

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Ahh that explains it. And yes to Scyther-love! I am looking forward to the day when genetic-technology evolves to the point where Scyther can be created by splicing Mantis DNA with Grim Reaper DNA.

And so this post contains something of value I should point out Flash is a cool move for Aurumoth. Also Sky Attack would be nice as it's highest level-up move since it says on the first turn that the user is glowing. Very angelic, non? It's Japanese name is also God Bird, and what is that descriptive of if not an angel? Also, it's not just for birds - Sigilyph gets it, although it does seem to be Flying-type only. Might be a nice semi-legendary mark though - like Hurricane on Volcarona.

I have a question: Given that Aerial Ace is disallowed. If I adhere to the current M-M Guidelines, giving Auru Bug Buzz necessitates that it should have Aerial Ace as well. Which rule should be followed?

I have a question: Given that Aerial Ace is disallowed. If I adhere to the current M-M Guidelines, giving Auru Bug Buzz necessitates that it should have Aerial Ace as well. Which rule should be followed?

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No, the current Move-Move guidelines recommend that it should have Aerial Ace as well. Not quite the same thing.

Am I the only one that think that Aurumoth could be Genesect before it was genetically altered by Team Plasma. You could make a whole game about that.

Team Plasma finds a fallen angel Pokemon and use it's DNA to create their own super being. It's like Giovanni and Mewtwo all over again.

I think we could make vague reference to that in the description, just something like, "Scientists are interested in it's potential". I can totally imagine Aurumoth being encased in armour and maving it's wings removed (That sounds morbid...sorry)

Genesect's description:

"This ancient bug Pokémon was altered by Team Plasma. They upgraded the cannon on its back."
"This Pokémon existed 300 million years ago. Team Plasma altered it and attached a cannon to its back."

That could so be Aurumoth

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Actually if you look at Kabutops and Genesect they actually have the same body type, Genesect is a few inches taller (the cannon), same basic facial features. Although its not a bug type it does have the same look.

I would have to say I prefer Aurumoth as a stand-alone pseudo-legendary, without any ties into former Pokemon.

Thanks for the quick response bmb. So jiust to clarify: the type-move and move-move guidelines are only "suggestions" and not hard requirements? That means a movepool submission not strictly adhering to them can be accepted?

Thanks for the quick response bmb. So just to clarify: the type-move and move-move guidelines are only "suggestions" and not hard requirements? That means a movepool submission not strictly adhering to them can be accepted?

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At the moment, yes. We may look into making the Guidelines back into hard Requirements in the future, but for the purposes of CAP 4 alone, a movepool that doesn't adhere to them is perfectly eligible for the slate.

CAP Head Mod

So... I went into #cap today around 3:30pm and said "let's make a cap :>". People apparently bought it, so we went right into it. We worked for about 45 minutes, then I left to go eat Thanksgiving dinner. After that, we reconvened to finish the final product for about 10 minutes. The final result is as follows. You can check out the pastebin if you like; it's the same information presented here. I'll do a play-by-play at the end. I need to emphasize that this is not an official CAP Pokemon and never will be. It's just something fun we did in the chat to pass the time, nothing more.

Pokedex Entries:
Black: Its fur coat is desired around the world for its ability to be both warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

White: Its genetic makeup changed when its habitat was destroyed by human activity. It now lives only for revenge.

BW2: Froxbite are known to alter the weather on a whim. People avoid them because of their unstable nature.

So, jas61292 say "ok" to my silly request, so the train got rolling. I asked what our concept should be, and Flarephoenix responded with HAILMON. Our discussion was nonexistent; I said we weren't having a bulky attacker (like every other Gen5 CAP does), so we went with that. jas and I determined immediately that we should do Ice/Fire and were met with little resistance. paintseagull suggested we make some sort of "cute arctic fox that is considered an eco-terrorist because it changes the weather." It was hilarious so we went with it. Some of our artists started getting interested, and CBMeadow whipped up a hilarious "artic cat" in MSPaint in under a minute. That served as the basis for Kadew's final draft, which you can see above. Wyverii was working on a sprite secretly in the background and had to do a complete 180 when Kadew posted her speedpaint.

Meanwhile, we were working hard on the competitive side of things. I posted a rough draft stat spread that had big offensive stats and around 80 defenses and HP. jas helped me tone down the defenses to make it less bulky; we made sure we survive neutral Scizor BP or something. We also wanted to outspeed Terrakion at minimum (suggested by Flarephoenix); I went up to 115; jas brought it down to 112 so we had a 555 BST.

After that, we talked about key moves. I pretty much mandated that we have only Fire and Ice-type STABs with a few other moves. We put in Hydro Pump for some fun coverage, but decided we didn't want anything else for the physical side. Flarephoenix also suggested we have a custom move called "Flare Dash" to give us some other priority outside of Ice Shard. It also gives us a fun niche by taking on Scizor and Sun sweepers. No Close Combat and no set up moves besides Swords Dance a la Weavile. And Howl. Aroooooooooooo

The artists and competitive people reconvened to put everything together. I said in the chat that we'd put up the first three Pokedex entries that anyone typed; we went with on by psg, Kadew, and myself. psg wanted us to do Eco-terrorist Pokemon, but I put a wall on that so we'd go for Climate Pokemon. In return, DHR refused to let me have my 10 foot tall arctic fox, so we settled on 3'6" and 80lbs. jas61292 finished up the final movepool, which was a good rough draft. The level up was nightmareish though, so DHR went in and made some edits to make it more manageable. We went Fairy group because Field has Smeargle and that's a headache. Wyverii finished up her sprite, and we were pretty much done! That's the story of Froxbite. If I can get the entire IRC log, I'll post it here.

What do you think? Well, if you've never visited IRC, you should! You can use Mibbit to join #cap and talk with all the CAP greats in real time. We don't usually make Pokemon like this, but we generally have a good time all around. Hope to see you there =)

CAP Head Mod

Im new to CAP and I cant offer art or tech stuff but I have ideas. Lots of them. And I can come up with new ones really easily so if anybody has something I can work with, I'll hear you out

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Hiya! You'll have to keep on the look out for official project threads; we'll be starting on some pre-evolutions for Aurumoth shortly. Until then, you can always share your stuff in this thread. Welcome to Smogon =)

EDIT: Also did a few minor updates. Wyverii refused to settle on the sprite she made, and we decided in #cap to change it to Flare Rush because it's a lot cooler. Sorry SgtWoodsy; Heatseeker was my second choice.

Moderator

Surprisingly, no. However, it depends on the set, and in most practical situations, it is probably taking Scizor out. If we assume 252/0 Scizor, then unboosted 0 SpA Flare Dash does 69.76 - 83.72%. Even with 252 SpA and Modest it does 95.34 - 112.79%, meaning Scizor has a chance to survive. However, as you would expect, items can really help out. With a Life Orb, you only need 100 EVs and a neutral nature to get the OHKO guaranteed.

Though one thing I was noticing after having made this move is that despite how awesome it seems, I don't think it would really get too much use. Beating a Scizor Bullet Punch is the only key thing it does, and while it is frail, one of the few competitive things I did calc while making it was that with 70/63 defenses, CB Scizor cannot KO from full health with Bullet Punch. Now of course, not taking 99% damage is preferable, but in general Froxbite is fast enough that priority might be wasted on it. Who knows though?

While a mod may feel free to correct me if this is wrong, I think that is just the kind of thing this thread is for, so go right ahead. Hopefully I will be getting the prevos started before too long, but, especially until then, there is no better place to talk about them than here.