Currently a 2nd Gen CTS owner and looking with interest at the upcoming 3rd Gen CTS, which really is going to be the true replacement for the STS as far as market positioning goes.

Now, the current STS and CTS both ride on versions of the Sigma platform, so they share a lot in common. Yet, the STS was positioned above the CTS in market and price.

Over my years with my car, I've come to realize that GM had to make a lot of compromises in the CTS to hit the price point that they launched it at. Many of us in the CTS forum have developed and either dealt with or lived with a host of squeaks and creeks as the car has proven itself to just not be very tightly put together.

I'm curious what kind of experience STS owners have had as your cars have aged. Were they better built with that extra cost and are holding up better? Or have you guys seen the same kind of issues we CTS guys have had and it is really more an issue of GM build quality, regardless of price?

I'm curious to get a feel of what kind of build quality we can expect out of the new CTS, particularly since it is moving several thousand dollars up the price scale.

Ludacrisvp

07-11-13, 03:02 PM

curtc will likely have a good voice on this one as he had a CTS previously that I know of.
Other members I think have also made that same switch.
Other than sitting in the 2nd gen CTS at car shows I have little to add for direct comparison.
I feel that the STS has a lower interior build quality of cadillacs of the past (comparing to 2000-2005 Deville/Seville) so this makes for some interior noise issues.
That price point did include an overall larger car on the same platform with several additional features and a 3rd engine choice.

curtc

07-11-13, 03:42 PM

To be honest, I don't notice a bit of difference between interior build quality (my 1st gen CTS seats were sure quieter!!) between the 1st gen CTS/STS...I traded my CTS in for the STS at 94k and the STS now has 105k. I just wanted a more luxurious looking interior as the 1st gen CTS interior is just so plain, doesn't look like a Cadillac interior at all...the extra inches in the back seat are a plus too! Now, I did test drive a 2nd gen CTS and the interior looked to better put together, materials used were also of higher quality from what I could tell. I did not like how it drove however, the extra weight kinda killed the CTS experience, I prefer the 1st gen as far as driving experience goes.

As far as the rest of the car goes I think it all depends on the owner...I got my CTS at 46k and it was MINT minus a couple dings in the paint, and it was pretty much in that same state when I traded it in (Except for the new roof that got put on due to a not so bright turkey, shhh I didn't disclose that when I traded it in). The STS was in fantastic shape too when I got it at 71k and I don't notice any difference at 105k...I think the care taker has A LOT to do with how a car holds up over time.

I made the switch for 3 main reasons....1. My 3.6 was starting to clatter on cold starts 2. I wanted the extra interior space/more luxurious 3. I wanted my Northstar V8 back! :cool:

Not mine, not at ALL!!! It actually drives me insane some days...I am going to try tightening the bolts tonight to see if that helps otherwise I'll be splicing some hose to install in between as suggested by the TSB at some point this summer.

Guy.Seminerio

07-11-13, 06:24 PM

Yes I was going to bring up the interior. The cts interior is nicer than the sts interior material wise UNLESS you get the STS-V or a regular sts with the platinum edition. In that case, the quality of the sts interior is tens of thousands of dollars more well done than the cts interior which is reflected in the price of these cars. 1bad cad I haven't forgot about you for the dash.

The sts has a better sound system, and the v8 option over the cts. It's a more mature looking car as well.

Now about the new cts. You are aware it will be built on the alpha platform, not sigma, right? The same one the ats is built on. It is supposed to gain 5-6 inches over the gen 2 CTS, only 1 of these inches being between the wheels. In other words, most of the growth is rear overhang. Kind of sucks, but it will give the car a more "complete" look. Sometimes you look at a car and just get that feeling that something is missing. I've always felt that the cts needed a little more car behind the rear wheels, but don't get me wrong.. One of the most beautiful cars on the road. For me it's the Ferrari 599, Maserati granturismo, and a fully loaded cts (17 inch rims are too small on that car) that are the most beautiful cars you can buy today. The extra overhang will complete the look. Also the new platform is why the new wider, longer cts will be hundreds of pounds lighter than the current one. Very cool. Also lower. Nice.

Compromises with the gen 2 cts? Yeah there were some, but GM knew sts was on its way out the door so they didn't change much on them. Never got the cornering headlamps, never got satellite based nav, never got a USB outlet, or even an auxiliary outlet for that matter. And we're talking up until 2011 when production ended.

When I heard the new cts was going with 13 speakers I was immediately disappointed. We have 15. But in the new CTS's defense, 4 of ours are little ones in the seats. Still, 13+4 in thee seats would've been nice. The Chrysler 300 is sitting on just under 20 I believe.

Also I'm sure you heard that the increase in interior room for the new cts over the old cts is very negligible and disproportionate it its exterior growth. Sts has a much larger interior.

The new cts is going to have an absolutely impressive interior looking at the pics. More porous leather (less treated giving it a less plasticky feel) porous exposed wood like in the Audi a7, leather with stitching on the center of the steering wheel. Speaking of the leather, the seats on the cts v2 have a very hard, plasticky feel to them compared to the sts.

You're absolutely correct in saying that the 2014 cts will be the gen 2 sts. This is why a couple of folks in the sts-v forum including myself have our eyes on a 2015? CTS-V. The current cts v will live on for 2014 while the regular CTSs start with gen 3.

The cts v sport is a pretty enticing thing too. 420-430 HP in a less than 4k lbs car makes it ALMOST as fast as an sts-v.

Build quality issues.. What drove me to the sts was its reliability believe it or not. It's what drove me to the sts v8 (which I've since sold) over the v6. The same DI v6 with questionable reliability that's in the CTSs. It's also what made it ok for me to go with the v. The only thing I can say that could potentially be a prevalent issue is wobbling side view mirror glass at speed, requiring the replacement of the entire mirror. Had the issue on my sts v8 on the left and then again on the sts-v on the right. For the record, parts, labor including painting the mirror (keep in mind it's the blind spot monitoring mirror, not sure if that matters) you're looking at around $550.

The rest of people in this forum who owned a regular sts for longer can tell you of other recurring issues.
Just as the sts was, the cts will be cadilac's flagship sedan, so look for very little compromise, especially in this highly competitive executive luxury sedan segment.

----------

Just to add to this, a close friend has a loaded cts4 3.6 DI 2008 so I'm very knowledgeable on those cars.

1BadCadSTS

07-11-13, 06:44 PM

Can you remind me where you sourced these?
New GM parts? or Salvage?
Did you have wood color matching issues?

Schram auto wreckers. Was $600 shipped for all of it.
I swapped my oem wood over there are screws you can access.

EChas3

07-12-13, 10:00 PM

RPO IL3 Premium Tuscany Leather Seats is available on more than just Platinum Edition STS's.

Ludacrisvp

07-12-13, 10:08 PM

True. Its what I have.

Sent from my One

EChas3

07-12-13, 10:17 PM

We are happy with our STS's. Mine was built 8 years ago; my wife's, about 6 and a half. She has had hers longer, over 5 years. I've had mine about 4 and a half.

Both cars have required repairs costing a bit more than the cost of the CPO/extended warranties. The pace of such repairs has actually slowed over time. I hope that continues... :)

ultimate_ed

07-14-13, 12:34 PM

Yes I was going to bring up the interior. The cts interior is nicer than the sts interior material wise UNLESS you get the STS-V or a regular sts with the platinum edition. In that case, the quality of the sts interior is tens of thousands of dollars more well done than the cts interior which is reflected in the price of these cars. 1bad cad I haven't forgot about you for the dash.

The sts has a better sound system, and the v8 option over the cts. It's a more mature looking car as well.

Now about the new cts. You are aware it will be built on the alpha platform, not sigma, right? The same one the ats is built on. It is supposed to gain 5-6 inches over the gen 2 CTS, only 1 of these inches being between the wheels. In other words, most of the growth is rear overhang. Kind of sucks, but it will give the car a more "complete" look. Sometimes you look at a car and just get that feeling that something is missing. I've always felt that the cts needed a little more car behind the rear wheels, but don't get me wrong.. One of the most beautiful cars on the road. For me it's the Ferrari 599, Maserati granturismo, and a fully loaded cts (17 inch rims are too small on that car) that are the most beautiful cars you can buy today. The extra overhang will complete the look. Also the new platform is why the new wider, longer cts will be hundreds of pounds lighter than the current one. Very cool. Also lower. Nice.

Compromises with the gen 2 cts? Yeah there were some, but GM knew sts was on its way out the door so they didn't change much on them. Never got the cornering headlamps, never got satellite based nav, never got a USB outlet, or even an auxiliary outlet for that matter. And we're talking up until 2011 when production ended.

When I heard the new cts was going with 13 speakers I was immediately disappointed. We have 15. But in the new CTS's defense, 4 of ours are little ones in the seats. Still, 13+4 in thee seats would've been nice. The Chrysler 300 is sitting on just under 20 I believe.

Also I'm sure you heard that the increase in interior room for the new cts over the old cts is very negligible and disproportionate it its exterior growth. Sts has a much larger interior.

The new cts is going to have an absolutely impressive interior looking at the pics. More porous leather (less treated giving it a less plasticky feel) porous exposed wood like in the Audi a7, leather with stitching on the center of the steering wheel. Speaking of the leather, the seats on the cts v2 have a very hard, plasticky feel to them compared to the sts.

You're absolutely correct in saying that the 2014 cts will be the gen 2 sts. This is why a couple of folks in the sts-v forum including myself have our eyes on a 2015? CTS-V. The current cts v will live on for 2014 while the regular CTSs start with gen 3.

The cts v sport is a pretty enticing thing too. 420-430 HP in a less than 4k lbs car makes it ALMOST as fast as an sts-v.

Build quality issues.. What drove me to the sts was its reliability believe it or not. It's what drove me to the sts v8 (which I've since sold) over the v6. The same DI v6 with questionable reliability that's in the CTSs. It's also what made it ok for me to go with the v. The only thing I can say that could potentially be a prevalent issue is wobbling side view mirror glass at speed, requiring the replacement of the entire mirror. Had the issue on my sts v8 on the left and then again on the sts-v on the right. For the record, parts, labor including painting the mirror (keep in mind it's the blind spot monitoring mirror, not sure if that matters) you're looking at around $550.

The rest of people in this forum who owned a regular sts for longer can tell you of other recurring issues.
Just as the sts was, the cts will be cadilac's flagship sedan, so look for very little compromise, especially in this highly competitive executive luxury sedan segment.

----------

Just to add to this, a close friend has a loaded cts4 3.6 DI 2008 so I'm very knowledgeable on those cars.

Yes, I probably should have pointed that out I am aware the new CTS will share the ATS's Alpha platform. I expect that means that when the CTS V and CTS coupe get moved to the Alpha platform, it will be the final nail for Sigma.

I did point out Sigma as the sharing point for the 2nd CTS and the STS as the basis for trying to determine if the several thousands higher base price of the STS over the CTS got a more tightly put together car. Looks like the opinion is mixed on that regard though I feel somewhat of a lean in opinion that, on average, STS's probably were put together better.

I am certainly disappointed that the "bigger" CTS that's coming isn't going to be so in any useful fashion - the back seat and the truck are the two biggest weaknesses of my 09 CTS and the 14 isn't going to fix either of them.

I could have gone with the STS when I got my car, but at that stage, the available infotech was important to me and the new CTS looked much better in that regard. Although, I did make the mistake of buying into this "all new" approach from Cadillac and expected they had learned from Apple and Google the need to continue to update and advance the system. Sadly, the CTS's have rotted on the vine in that regard. I'll be curious to see if CUE turns out more serious in that regard, or if Cadillacs 5 years from now are still going to be rolling with the same interfaces that they are coming off the line with today.

Honestly, as much as I want to really love the new CTS, with the way I drive and what I do with my car, the XTS Vsport looks like it might prove to be a better fit.

curtc

07-14-13, 02:03 PM

Only you if you want AWD/FWD...XTS will never be available with RWD...

Ludacrisvp

07-14-13, 02:06 PM

Only you if you want AWD/FWD...XTS will never be available with RWD...

Correct. And the XTS V-Sport is going to be available is AWD only. It was deemed to have too much HP to be usable in the FWD only version.

Sent from my One

1BadCadSTS

07-14-13, 03:55 PM

Yeah an the CTS v sport is rwd only. Go figure. This defeating the purpose of the V series.

Guy.Seminerio

07-14-13, 06:54 PM

Yeah that was weird to me and I have a feeling that the v sport will eventually get awd. Otherwise cadillac is leaving the midsize awd luxury sedan with the increased power (550xi xdrive whatever the hell and mb e550 4 matic) market alone. Which if you're from the northeast, you'll see is a pretty big market. I think overall the take rate for awd on these cars is about half. Read it somewhere. If you're from the south and this seems impossible to you, relax. I never saw RWD sedans (awd option not ticked) until I left ny.

----------

By the way you might change your mind about the new cts when you see it in person. I'm thinking its gonna have some beautiful proportions. Proportions that the xts can't come close to matching.

turnne

07-15-13, 10:40 AM

I feel that the STS has a lower interior build quality of cadillacs of the past (comparing to 2000-2005 Deville/Seville) so this makes for some interior noise issues.
.

agreed

low points..IMO..being the door panels and the glove box door

They feel like something that would be on a car that is half the sticker of the STS

The interior finishes of my 02 STS( and room) was far higher than on the 05

Warren

1BadCadSTS

07-15-13, 06:13 PM

You can thank bob lutz for rushing the sts to market. Otherwise we would of had the sls style interior here in the states.

curtc

07-15-13, 08:09 PM

agreed

low points..IMO..being the door panels and the glove box door

They feel like something that would be on a car that is half the sticker of the STS

The interior finishes of my 02 STS( and room) was far higher than on the 05

Warren

Agreed, my 2001 STS was of much better build quality...And to the glove box...EVERYTHING ABOUT IT SUCKS! My CTS had the same stupid one...I hate it.

turnne

07-15-13, 08:20 PM

Yeah that was weird to me and I have a feeling that the v sport will eventually get awd. Otherwise cadillac is leaving the midsize awd luxury sedan with the increased power (550xi xdrive whatever the hell and mb e550 4 matic) market alone. Which if you're from the northeast, you'll see is a pretty big market. I think overall the take rate for awd on these cars is about half. Read it somewhere. If you're from the south and this seems impossible to you, relax. I never saw RWD sedans (awd option not ticked) until I left ny.

----------

By the way you might change your mind about the new cts when you see it in person. I'm thinking its gonna have some beautiful proportions. Proportions that the xts can't come close to matching.

you are forgetting the Lexus mid size luxury in your line up with the BMW and Benz

IMO...there is a buyer who demands a V8 in a BMW/Benz demographic....shown by example of the significant amount of V8's of both models I see driving around
the Lexus seems to be 80-90% V6 variants...which makes me assure their demographic doesn't care as much
The last few years of the V8 STS were scarce compared to the V6...so that makes me think the Caddy demographic didnt demand a V8 either

I highly doubt GM is going to engineer a new high performance V8 to compete in the luxury market and they know the northstar had gotten really long on tooth vs the competition

On another the germans still have higher performance 2WD( limited availability) models with twin turbo V8's for their M5 and E55( E65?) mid size performance variants

Warren

Ludacrisvp

07-15-13, 08:23 PM

You can thank bob lutz for rushing the sts to market. Otherwise we would of had the sls style interior here in the states.

Thanks Bob.... :-/

Sent from my One

turnne

07-15-13, 08:45 PM

You can thank bob lutz for rushing the sts to market. Otherwise we would of had the sls style interior here in the states.

yes...without an all new cutting edge V8 and at least a 6 speed trans that all the competition had at the time