Patrick Uber Thread - from Vancouver to Sochi

Oh. let's just enjoy the bright side while we can. When Patrick skates as he did at the 2012 Nationals, triumph is tangible, and absolutely glorious. My obsession with him is based on the possibly of him feeling that way again, and this old biddy uber feeling that way again through him, and wishing it for him with all my heart. Negative thinking, even when well articulated, and well reasoned, introduces realism, which is so totally over rated, and so overstuffed into everyday non- skating-fandom life. Other people may believe in provable facts, our ability to break the speed of light, the perfectibility of human nature, or even an after life, I choose believe in Patrick, enough to hope he breaks 300.

However, since you bring training up, he did say, after that transcendent short at the Worlds, now scarcely remembered, that had he trained all season as he trained the last few weeks, his year would have been vastly different. I can't imagine he's forgotten that little lesson already.

Enough elite athletes have done it. It takes a single-minded focus and unbelievable drive.
Given the resources available to Patrick, and his ability to access and pay for them, there is no reason why he can't peak at the Olympics. Especially since he has no need to peak at Nationals.
Of course, it's possible for an athlete to peak at the Olympics but still make mistakes that cost titles.

Click to expand...

I agree with quite a few of the points you brought up including the worry that Patrick won't enjoy his season if he doesn't win the Olympics and it is a valid concern that he may not be in the right frame of mind, the shape, and or the training situation to get there. But as I said above - I will be the first to cheer if that is NOT the case.

However, as far as the part of the post I quoted above, I am not so sure.

I mean - if we just look to 3 other Canadian champions - who are actually fine examples because I truly believe they were all exceptionally hard workers, determined and competitive, you can see it is not that easy. I would say they all had what you said was needed "single-minded focus and unbelievable drive."

I know the reasons are complicated but Kurt Browning and Elvis Stojko were not able to peak at the Olympics and it is arguable that Jeff Buttle peaked at 2008 Worlds instead of the 2006 Olympics or the 2010 Olympics 2 years earlier or 2 years later. I am sure that, given the choice, they would have liked to have peaked , been uninjured - maintained the fire for competition etc to have won gold at the Olympics - but they did not. And they are really good examples because each of them was capable of being the best in the world - just not during the Olympics.

Don't get me wrong - I am not criticizing any of these men whom I admire a great deal (even if I don't particularly love Stojko's skating or comments)

Brian Orser is probably the only Canadian World Champion who WAS able to peak at an Olympics and he did it at not one but 2 Olympics - and because of figures and someone peaking just that little bit better than him still didn't achieve gold.

And then there is Michelle Kwan.

These journeys make me believe it is one of the most difficult things to achieve - peaking at the Olympics.

And we can also argue that of the athletes who have won Olympic gold -- that some of them may have at least partially lucked out with their peaking happening at the Olympics rather than it being a carefully planned and executed journey. Possibly Oksana Baiul or Ilia Kulik? I may be wrong - and they were just that good that they were able to plan it that way - but there is a possibility that their peak years just happened to coincide with the Olympic cycle.

I do think that is only the rarest of skaters and teams that are able to make it happen - and that statistically they are the exception rather than the rule.

I agree with quite a few of the points you brought up including the worry that Patrick won't enjoy his season if he doesn't win the Olympics and it is a valid concern that he may not be in the right frame of mind, the shape, and or the training situation to get there. But as I said above - I will be the first to cheer if that is NOT the case.

Click to expand...

I'll be cheering right along with you.

I mean - if we just look to 3 other Canadian champions - who are actually fine examples because I truly believe they were all exceptionally hard workers, determined and competitive, you can see it is not that easy. I would say they all had what you said was needed "single-minded focus and unbelievable drive."

I know the reasons are complicated but Kurt Browning and Elvis Stojko were not able to peak at the Olympics and it is arguable that Jeff Buttle peaked at 2008 Worlds instead of the 2006 Olympics or the 2010 Olympics 2 years earlier or 2 years later. I am sure that, given the choice, they would have liked to have peaked , been uninjured - maintained the fire for competition etc to have won gold at the Olympics - but they did not. And they are really good examples because each of them was capable of being the best in the world - just not during the Olympics.

Click to expand...

I was defining 'peaking' loosely, in the sense of a high-ranking elite athlete being in the best form possible during the strongest years of his/her career. Two-four years isn't a rare amount of time for a top contender to stay in the running. Yes, there are some flashes in the pan, but I wouldn't count Chan among them.

Perfect 'timing' in terms of being at the peak career-wise at the right time in the Olympic cycle is far trickier, because it is only one competition in four years. Yagudin is one for whom that timing was perfect.

I didn't follow Browning at his two Olympics, but Elvis was on the rise in 94 and arguably peaked in 97, but might have retained form in '98 were it not for the groin injury. I'm not sure when Buttle peaked but the 98 win was a bit of a fluke in that the stars lined up for an usually inconsistent skater.

Also, if Patrick hasn't peaked yet, wouldn't it be the season for it? I feared that he might peak last season, but that didn't happen. Are his best years over and is he on the decline?

And we can also argue that of the athletes who have won Olympic gold -- that some of them may have at least partially lucked out with their peaking happening at the Olympics rather than it being a carefully planned and executed journey. Possibly Oksana Baiul or Ilia Kulik? I may be wrong - and they were just that good that they were able to plan it that way - but there is a possibility that their peak years just happened to coincide with the Olympic cycle.

Click to expand...

I think Kulik peaked at the Olympics. Even a perfect Elvis would not have beat him.

And some skaters not only peak, but also benefit from the mistakes of others (i.e. Lysacek).

Chan has never hidden the fact that had he won gold (or possibly any medal) in Vancouver he'd have been history. Figure skating is his job and he has devoted his young life to being the best that he can be - but he can't approach it like a Kurt Browning, who has kept his love for skating going for more than two decades. Patrick's goal is that elusive Olympic gold medal and the coaching/choreographer choices he makes are made as much to help keep his head in the game as they are to maintain and improve his skills. I can't imagine what an ordeal the last few years have been for him especially given the viciousness of the criticism directed at him. That's why I believe Patrick's the only one who knows what he needs and what is right for him.

Oh. let's just enjoy the bright side while we can. When Patrick skates as he did at the 2012 Nationals, triumph is tangible, and absolutely glorious. My obsession with him is based on the possibly of him feeling that way again, and this old biddy uber feeling that way again through him, and wishing it for him with all my heart. Negative thinking, even when well articulated, and well reasoned, introduces realism, which is so totally over rated, and so overstuffed into everyday non- skating-fandom life. Other people may believe in provable facts, our ability to break the speed of light, the perfectibility of human nature, or even an after life, I choose believe in Patrick, enough to hope he breaks 300.

As I recall, Browning had a serious back injury that knocked him out of Canadians (Michael Slipchuk won) and wrecked his training leading to the 1992 Olympics. That was Kurt's time. Victor Petrenko has his medal 1994 was a whole different ball game. Kurt was 27 years old and while in 1993 he had regained his form enough to get his title back, his jumps were never as consistent as before the injury. He also said his head wasn't really into the 1994 Olympics, but he stayed because it was only two years away. I think age probably factored in Buttle's decision.

As I recall, Browning had a serious back injury that knocked him out of Canadians (Michael Slipchuk won) and wrecked his training leading to the 1992 Olympics. That was Kurt's time. Victor Petrenko has his medal 1994 was a whole different ball game. Kurt was 27 years old and while in 1993 he had regained his form enough to get his title back, his jumps were never as consistent as before the injury. He also said his head wasn't really into the 1994 Olympics, but he stayed because it was only two years away. I think age probably factored in Buttle's decision.

Click to expand...

I think so too, blueglass. A common theme among all these athletes seem to be 'take care of your body'.

Corianna said:

Oh. let's just enjoy the bright side while we can. When Patrick skates as he did at the 2012 Nationals, triumph is tangible, and absolutely glorious. My obsession with him is based on the possibly of him feeling that way again, and this old biddy uber feeling that way again through him, and wishing it for him with all my heart.

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, Corianna. Whatever the outcome, I will take it (quoting Emdee).

Last season is over. Time to put whatever happened last season to rest and look forward to the next seasons programs. Go Patrick!

Chan has never hidden the fact that had he won gold (or possibly any medal) in Vancouver he'd have been history. Figure skating is his job and he has devoted his young life to being the best that he can be - but he can't approach it like a Kurt Browning, who has kept his love for skating going for more than two decades. Patrick's goal is that elusive Olympic gold medal and the coaching/choreographer choices he makes are made as much to help keep his head in the game as they are to maintain and improve his skills. I can't imagine what an ordeal the last few years have been for him especially given the viciousness of the criticism directed at him. That's why I believe Patrick's the only one who knows what he needs and what is right for him.

Well, everyone wants it and someone's going to get it. So I guess it's not going to go well for the majority of the field lol.

Click to expand...

I think that a lot know they are not in the running for an OGM before the competition begins, and I don't mind if somebody wants to fight for the OGM . . . but that word "elusive" coupled with OGM is like setting somebody up for unfinished business. Fighting, competing, striving, etc. for the the OGM is good . . . but feeling like it is all but in your hands is not.

I think that a lot know they are not in the running for an OGM before the competition begins, and I don't mind if somebody wants to fight for the OGM . . . but that word "elusive" coupled with OGM is like setting somebody up for unfinished business. Fighting, competing, striving, etc. for the the OGM is good . . . but feeling like it is all but in your hands is not.

Click to expand...

I think you have misunderstood me - by elusive I meant it seems to be somewhat unattainable - particularly for Canadian men. I don't see where I suggested it was all but his
I remember Browning saying after his first world title that he went into it thinking "well someone is going to win this thing, so why not me?" That's a healthy attitude for a competitive skater. So I hope Patrick is thinking something along those lines.

I think you have misunderstood me - by elusive I meant it seems to be somewhat unattainable - particularly for Canadian men. I don't see where I suggested it was all but his
I remember Browning saying after his first world title that he went into it thinking "well someone is going to win this thing, so why not me?" That's a healthy attitude for a competitive skater. So I hope Patrick is thinking something along those lines.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. I hope nothing more for Patrick but a beautiful performance that wins an OGM. Canada has produced many lovely skaters, and Patrick is not the least of these.

I think that a lot know they are not in the running for an OGM before the competition begins, and I don't mind if somebody wants to fight for the OGM . . . but that word "elusive" coupled with OGM is like setting somebody up for unfinished business. Fighting, competing, striving, etc. for the the OGM is good . . . but feeling like it is all but in your hands is not.

Click to expand...

I don't see the fuss about the word 'elusive'. Contrary to what you perceived, IMO, elusive means 'hard to achieve/attain' as blueglass explained. So how you come to understand that blueglass meant that it is something to be achieved soon is baffling. Perhaps you prefer to see it that way?

I am sure most of us will agree that at least five skaters have equal chance of medalling in Sochi and Patrick is being one of them. So is there anything wrong if he thinks he stand a chance to medal?

Contrary to what you perceived, IMO, elusive means 'hard to achieve/attain' as blueglass explained.

Click to expand...

Of course "what perceived" is different than "IMO", that is "in [your] opinion" . . . and it was discussed and clarified in forum before you posted, and so why it continued to be baffling to you is baffling to me.

I don't think it would be completely wrong to say that five or six skaters have equal chances of medaling at the Olympics. Personally at this point I can see any of Chan, Fernandez, Hanyu, Takahashi, Ten and even Plushenko going home from Sochi with an Olympic medal under his belt. Also, if we look at the results at the last three World Championships, we see that the silver and bronze medalists were different every year, so I wouldn't rule out a surprise medal winner in Russia either.

Patrick is simply too good of a skater not to win at least one Olympic medal. It is nearly impossible to predict who and in what order the medallists will be at Sochi's men's competition but I'll be crushed if Patrick is not in the top three.

I don't think it would be completely wrong to say that five or six skaters have equal chances of medaling at the Olympics. Personally at this point I can see any of Chan, Fernandez, Hanyu, Takahashi, Ten and even Plushenko going home from Sochi with an Olympic medal under his belt. Also, if we look at the results at the last three World Championships, we see that the silver and bronze medalists were different every year, so I wouldn't rule out a surprise medal winner in Russia either.

Click to expand...

These are also the five men I have in mind, VarBar. I must admit I am also a fan of Kozuka and I do hope he can medal too. I wish there are at least five medals to share!

Idk there is so much focus (from Patrick and the media) on winning GOLD that I feel like even if Patrick won silver it would be a disappointment. From the way he's been speaking lately, it seems like Patrick wants gold and nothing less. This could go both ways. On the one hand, he obviously has the drive and determination to reach this goal. On the other, it can also create too much pressure if the focus is on the gold medal and nothing else.

I think that Patrick will be devastated if he doesn't win... so hopefully he does!