Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Been very quiet on forums over past couple of weeks, my thoughts are on summer release and anything I can add or remove to make it even better. Still very much on the fence about making ArchBang systemd free, while I want to go down the OpenRC route (and have no problem in doing so) concerned of effect on new users coming to ArchBang.

Will say that i686 version of ArchBang will no longer be available there seems little need for it (and looking at downloads it reflects this).

Might put out an rc update very soon if only to get kernel more up to date.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

I just fired up the Spring Release, CrunchBang 10, and CrunchBang 11 ISOs in VirtualBox. Here's my 2¢, adjusted for inflation:

First, I have no need for 32-bit anymore.

Based upon the name ArchBang, I'd expect to boot into something that looks & feels almost exactly like CrunchBang 10 or 11, but has the greatness of Arch as the guts. Spring Release neither looks nor feels like either, but I think it's an excellent start.

With that in mind, first & foremost I'd strive to make it look/behave like Statler or Waldorf:* the simple & elegant dark grey theme and wallpaper* the cool pipe-menus -- seems they put quite a bit work into those* shortcut keys shown on the background by default, but include a version sans shortcut keys for once the user knows them

I think it'd also be important to include at least a menu item or desktop icon that launches abinstall. #! had Install options when booting the ISO, but not once you booted the Live Session (at least not in the menus).

Then maybe also offer an alternative OpenRC version.

OR, while it would be quite a different project probably, you could create an installer script à la AUI, with the obviously #!-esque options as default, but also give users some choices, e.g. OpenRC or systemd, enable AUR via yaourt, etc.

Could be quicker to update, as you'd be updating a script instead of spinning new ISOs. Worth a thought, I think.

EDIT: how could I have forgotten about the #! Post-Install script? That was also awesome.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Keybinds are in openbox menu, can easily add them back into conky. Installer used to be part of main menu but it was a pain to remove it post install. Again something I could look at for summer release. We did have packer install script (post install) live it is not something I would add as you need base-devel packages.

A fully updateable (if that is the word!) could be done by installing to usb device then simply updating it to have the latest and greatest packages on the go.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Reflector needs python, something we do not ship live. However subject to a network connection do not see why you could not load it live.... need to find or create packer script (aur tools) post install.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

* the simple & elegant dark grey theme and wallpaper* the cool pipe-menus -- seems they put quite a bit work into those

We're not so much interested in looks as the former Crunchbang community. I guess.But why don't you write a howto to see what we are missing and maybe that will convince Mr Green to add this in a later release.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

pablokal wrote:

* the simple & elegant dark grey theme and wallpaper* the cool pipe-menus -- seems they put quite a bit work into those

We're not so much interested in looks as the former Crunchbang community. I guess.But why don't you write a howto to see what we are missing and maybe that will convince Mr Green to add this in a later release.

I was just saying, based upon the name "Archbang" I would think it'd be Crunchbang but with an Arch backbone instead of Debian. Isn't that what this project was initially?

I realize I've only been lurking for some unknown time interval, but Mr. Green asked what people wanted to see, and that's what I thought I'd see, so that's what I want to see.

I could write something more like a list of software & customizations that made Crunchbang unique, but if I could actually write a "howto make Crunchbang on Arch" I could also probably just make it myself.

If that is indeed the goal of this project, I can definitely help figure out what's missing to make it more like Crunchbang was.

Otherwise, if the goal is something else, then I'll stop thinking of it as an Arch-based Crunchbang clone and just take it as it is.

Mr Green wrote:

Downloaded crunch++ see what all the fuss is about, packer install will be added to next release....

Don't forget BunsenLabs, or that other one I forgot. I can't tell the difference between cbpp & bl and have no idea which one to choose if you wanted a continued Debian-based Crunchbang.

EDIT: The third CB continuation is Monara, and doesn't have the look or feel of Crunchbang.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

It has always been a trade off when building iso to keep it within 700mbs. Over the years the iso has grown from around 450 to now 600mbs+. Perfectly aware that with usb drive/sticks there is no real limit but it does take time to build iso and upload it, reducing this helps me quite a bit. With i686 being dropped by Arch my work is halved .

Back on topic....

We can make ArchBang feel more like Crunchbang, it was more the fact that we are based on openbox rather than bigger desktops like xfarce! or mate.

Post-install script does sound like a good idea, what to include?

Tried so hard not to do much hand holding with users, they do need to learn Arch to get the best from it.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Haha, true!

Ok, so just an Arch-based distro featuring Openbox, not necessarily an Arch-based clone of CrunchBang.

Post-Install: optionally choose browser, office suite. Perhaps different kernels? (Trying to remember what was in the #! one)Definitely minimal initial install, optionally bloat it up with the Post-Install Script™.

CrunchBang-Monara is just another of the successors listed on the Wikipedia article for CrunchBang. Main font reminds me of Comic Sans...

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

Reflector needs python, something we do not ship live. However subject to a network connection do not see why you could not load it live.... need to find or create packer script (aur tools) post install.

You are right there and the way you set up the mirrors live works just the same. Little bit more of an advantage using reflector when the system is fully setup, i see improvements in speed having say 12 mirrors to choose from that are the closest to me. Definetly a userland option.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Grabbed the ISO and booted it in VirtualBox, but was unable to successfully install due to some hiccups with the Bootloader installation -- I've run out of time right now to experiment further or provide more info, so more later on that perhaps. :\

Optionally installed via Post-Install Script (fresh-squeezed from the tubes, not on the ISO):* choice of web browser* choice of terminal emulator* pack of themes from the old CB releases -- they had a nice selection, wonder if we can just tar the dir, remove the already installed ones, and use that archive in the script?* enable AUR, install e.g. yaourt* firewall, ssh, ssl* dev tools, git, etc.* choice of Office suite?* choice of kernel?

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Obconf and lxappearance are included live, just not part of main menu (maybe need a sub menu for them!). Not sure if I want to add nitrogen live, it drags in another gui toolkit and does not seem to make much sense live. Post install perhaps? ... not heard of conky-manager again it is worth loading live?

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Might look at a way of adding tint2conf to menu (as it's installed anyway). In a similar light things like obkey and obmenu could be added. Without checking I do not think #! has a dynamic menu.

From my point of view things that add weight but have no real benefit live are what I try to avoid, Firefox is a case in point. It requires both gtk2 and gtk3 toolkits. If I could run say gtk3 only I could lose around 50mbs from iso. This ultimately means more gui goodness

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

(sorry, started a new job this week, been busy)

Yes, tint2config would be good too.

Agree on preventing bloat, for the most part. Firefox is my browser of choice, but I wonder if something like QupZilla (still Qt required probably) instead of FF/Chrome in the Live would be better, and just allow selection of browser in the Post-Install Script.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

I personally think a web browser should be an optional addition or user addition, what would be the negatives on that idea?

In the openbox menu you could link popular web browser choices that give the option to install via pacman, not sure how that would be done but ive seen it before within openbox somewhere i cant recollect at the moment.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Generally we figure that a user either may not have an internet connection or cannot set up wifi for whatever reason. A user can at least set up a disc and install a system without any network connection. This has always been how ArchBang installer works. We do not rely on a network connection to install.

That said Archlinux is very much a network based distribution, simply to keep system bleeding edge and allow a user to install packages.

Shipping with a smaller browser live such as netsurf does save quite a bit of space.

My only other option would be a 'light' version that simply had a desktop with installer and some means of installing 'missing' packages live...

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Anyone else having trouble with the Bootloader setup during installation?

In VirtualBox (1 SATA controller with 1 Optical + 1 Disk), I've tried Grub2 Automatic, Syslinux [MBR] Automatic, and Syslinux [Partition] Automatic; none of which will boot after rebooting. I have some screenshots with more info that I can share here or in another thread or offline, etc.

The rest seems to go through fine, although if you tell it to go through multiple steps and then e.g. mistype the new root password the second time, it'll just show an error message and continue to the next step.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Hi,I just registered to support the ideas joshg253 braught up for the next release. I am a Crunchbang user since several years now - and after CB based on Wheezy would be the last one I found Archbang very interesting - since its a rolling release. But it didn't feel like beeing as ready for desktop usage like CB. Several years ago, I was fine with setting up the looks and configure everything about the window manaher myself. But today I dont want to do that like for hours anymore. I and I guess many others expect a style which is pleasant to the eye and flexible for adjustment. CB did that - and it additionally had those install script, although I didnt need them really. More importantly tools like obconf or lxappaerance, arandr, tint, dmenu, choosing a wallpaper e.g. this very basic stuff is included in the right klick menu and very fast and easy to reach as a newcomer. So thats user friedly although its minimalistic. It offers you customisation of your desktop to something more suitable to your workflow.

I still use Wheezy @ work. And Bunsenlabs (Jessie) I have on my systems @home. Bunsenlabs is the successor of CB. This cb++ leader just migrated the CB distro-specific packages to jessie. Bunsenlabs actually is moving forward. It took the CB packages , migrated and improves them continuously based on community requests. So thats what you call a living disto and thats the future branch of CB.

But Debian in general lacks up to date software. This is why I would very much like to see Archbang to get a little more like Bunsenlabs in regard to having a recognizable desktop theme + customisation options at hand to make openbox more or less swift from a solid basic install to your own.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Adding features adds to iso size. Things like nitrogen which needs its own gui toolkit just does not seem worth the effort live. Post install anything needed are easily installed. Had asked for permission to use arch anywhere scripts to achieve this, but as yet I have head nothing from developer.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Mr Green wrote:

I would seriously look at Alpine Linux Openrc and 32 bit yummy!

I tried it before but gave up due to time constraints. Other concerns are sparse documentation/wiki, quite a few packages I use are not in the repos, lack of support in the forum/irc (the chances of getting a response there are slim).

I just downloaded the latest standard iso and will give it a shot again but I suspect I'm in for a lot of PT. Either way I'll have to find an alternative distro for this laptop before arch drops i686.

Re: Quiet on forums so thoughts on Summer release

Its a shame because it is so easy to install and once you switch to 'edge' you get a very update system.... not sure what packages you are needing. Certainly something I am really looking at at the moment.

On Virtualbox I have done three installs honing each system as I learn..