Just to let everyone know, there actually are numerous canonical EO priests that I have met who recognize that one can engage in homosexual acts and remain an Orthodox Christian in good standing. So to suggest that this view is simply my personal distortion that one would find contradicted by all canonical priests is simply erroneous.

Name them.

I've already gone over this once in this forum. I will not name these priests because I do not trust people here to the extent that I think they wouldn't do their best to have these men deposed.

Interesting. If the Orthodox Church allowed sexual activity outside of marriage then these priests could easily be named without fear of being deposed. But since there needs to be secrecy in regard to the naming of these priests we must then conclude that their bishops would have to depose them for teaching that sexual activity outside of marriage is okay.

The only conclusion that can be drawn from that is that there are some authorities in "the Orthodox Church" who believe the contrary.

More than just a few my friend. Try the majority of the Orthodox Church. Only the renegades hold your opinion. That is the reason for secrecy.

Ialmisry, I am not avoiding that post for the sake of entirely avoiding, but simply because I don't have the time to read it this very moment. I'll probably get to it sometime in the next 24 hours.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Ialmisry, I am not avoiding that post for the sake of entirely avoiding, but simply because I don't have the time to read it this very moment. I'll probably get to it sometime in the next 24 hours.

Take your time, you don't answer to me.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Just to let everyone know, there actually are numerous canonical EO priests that I have met who recognize that one can engage in homosexual acts and remain an Orthodox Christian in good standing. So to suggest that this view is simply my personal distortion that one would find contradicted by all canonical priests is simply erroneous.

Name them.

I've already gone over this once in this forum. I will not name these priests because I do not trust people here to the extent that I think they wouldn't do their best to have these men deposed.

Interesting. If the Orthodox Church allowed sexual activity outside of marriage then these priests could easily be named without fear of being deposed. But since there needs to be secrecy in regard to the naming of these priests we must then conclude that their bishops would have to depose them for teaching that sexual activity outside of marriage is okay.

DON"T APPLY LOGIC.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

That is not the Church's doctrine, that is the OCA's, GOAA's, and AOCANA's doctrine. They are parts of the Church, not the Church itself.

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I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

Just to let everyone know, there actually are numerous canonical EO priests that I have met who recognize that one can engage in homosexual acts and remain an Orthodox Christian in good standing. So to suggest that this view is simply my personal distortion that one would find contradicted by all canonical priests is simply erroneous.

Name them.

I've already gone over this once in this forum. I will not name these priests because I do not trust people here to the extent that I think they wouldn't do their best to have these men deposed.

Interesting. If the Orthodox Church allowed sexual activity outside of marriage then these priests could easily be named without fear of being deposed. But since there needs to be secrecy in regard to the naming of these priests we must then conclude that their bishops would have to depose them for teaching that sexual activity outside of marriage is okay.

The only conclusion that can be drawn from that is that there are some authorities in "the Orthodox Church" who believe the contrary.

More than just a few my friend. Try the majority of the Orthodox Church. Only the renegades hold your opinion. That is the reason for secrecy.

I don't particularly care if the majority of the members of "the Orthodox Church" (still wondering what you people are meaning by that) believe this. "The majority" isn't always a proper representation of the actual Church. History has clearly proven that one.

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Why would you advertise a group who stands in direct opposition to Holy Orthodoxy?

I don't think that Axios is in opposition to orthodoxy.

Are YOU the Orthodox Church?

-I don't mean that to offend you or sound arrogant, but seriously...

No, I'm not. That's why I express my opinions and try to perceive what the Church teaches. You all seem convinced that the Church clearly teaches something. I see it as simply a modern phenomenon that has swept the majority of believers and will hopefully fade away soon.

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I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

Ialmisry, I am not avoiding that post for the sake of entirely avoiding, but simply because I don't have the time to read it this very moment. I'll probably get to it sometime in the next 24 hours.

Take your time, you don't answer to me.

I'm aware. But you deserve a proper response.

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LOL so are you the one who decides who is the Church and what they believe? I'm sorry but there is no way I can listen to you if you are like that...

Wait, you actually believe that the OCA is the Church? Do you have no conception of the ecumenical Church?

I am just randomly picking this post to be the one that gets you a warning for that avatar. It was provocative and I don't appreciate this forum being used as an advertisement for a group that seeks to change Orthodox teachings.

Fr Anastasios

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I do wonder about the provocative nature of such an avatar. Is it really necessary to be a source of temptation in this manner,knowing full and well the traditional stance of the Church on this issue? I mean, would it be in good taste for an Orthodox Christian living in fornication or any other sin to flaunt his/her activities before all? In a spirit of shame and concern for others' souls, shouldn't we quietly be trying to overcome sin? Maybe celibacy is deeply painful for most of us, but we don't have the choice to fornicate, but must rather try to somehow accept the fearsome,anguishing cross we must bear.

LOL so are you the one who decides who is the Church and what they believe? I'm sorry but there is no way I can listen to you if you are like that...

Wait, you actually believe that the OCA is the Church? Do you have no conception of the ecumenical Church?

Sure. The OCA condemns homosexual acts because the Ecumenical Church condemns homosexual acts (and adultery, etc.). That is part of the reason why the OCA and the Ecumenical Church are one.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

It's clear he wants the attention and he's getting it... Sadly... But personally, OCNet needs to take a stronger stance on issues such as this. People shouldn't come here seeking answers, but they do. And it's sad if they come here and see the same drivel that exists in much of the rest of society. Hopefully they will realize that the Orthodox Church isn't a slave to secularism and the world like other faiths...

Why would you advertise a group who stands in direct opposition to Holy Orthodoxy?

I don't think that Axios is in opposition to orthodoxy.

Are YOU the Orthodox Church?

-I don't mean that to offend you or sound arrogant, but seriously...

No, I'm not. That's why I express my opinions and try to perceive what the Church teaches. You all seem convinced that the Church clearly teaches something. I see it as simply a modern phenomenon that has swept the majority of believers and will hopefully fade away soon.

The quote I've posted is 16 centuries old, and as true as when St. John spoke them.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

LOL so are you the one who decides who is the Church and what they believe? I'm sorry but there is no way I can listen to you if you are like that...

Wait, you actually believe that the OCA is the Church? Do you have no conception of the ecumenical Church?

Sure. The OCA condemns homosexual acts because the Ecumenical Church condemns homosexual acts (and adultery, etc.). That is part of the reason why the OCA and the Ecumenical Church are one.

So John Chrysostom is the infallible and supreme mouthpiece of the Ecumenical Church?

Not that I'm admitting that he actually sides with you (I will judge that when I get around to reading that), but hypothetically assuming that you are right.

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I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

Why would you advertise a group who stands in direct opposition to Holy Orthodoxy?

I don't think that Axios is in opposition to orthodoxy.

Are YOU the Orthodox Church?

-I don't mean that to offend you or sound arrogant, but seriously...

No, I'm not. That's why I express my opinions and try to perceive what the Church teaches. You all seem convinced that the Church clearly teaches something. I see it as simply a modern phenomenon that has swept the majority of believers and will hopefully fade away soon.

Matthew 16:18"I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

If the gates of Hades shall not prevail against the Church, homosexual advocating will also not prevail against Her teachings.

The episcopate is one, each part of which is held by each one for the whole. [Episcopatus unus est, cuius a singulis in solidum pars tenetur: the quote has become a maxim].

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Why would you advertise a group who stands in direct opposition to Holy Orthodoxy?

I don't think that Axios is in opposition to orthodoxy.

Are YOU the Orthodox Church?

-I don't mean that to offend you or sound arrogant, but seriously...

No, I'm not. That's why I express my opinions and try to perceive what the Church teaches. You all seem convinced that the Church clearly teaches something. I see it as simply a modern phenomenon that has swept the majority of believers and will hopefully fade away soon.

Matthew 16:18"I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

If the gates of Hades shall not prevail against the Church, homosexual advocating will also not prevail against Her teachings.

not matter how much it tries to enter by the back gate (sorry, couldn't resist).

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 10:56:04 PM by ialmisry »

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

LOL so are you the one who decides who is the Church and what they believe? I'm sorry but there is no way I can listen to you if you are like that...

Wait, you actually believe that the OCA is the Church? Do you have no conception of the ecumenical Church?

Sure. The OCA condemns homosexual acts because the Ecumenical Church condemns homosexual acts (and adultery, etc.). That is part of the reason why the OCA and the Ecumenical Church are one.

So John Chrysostom is the infallible and supreme mouthpiece of the Ecumenical Church?

Not that I'm admitting that he actually sides with you (I will judge that when I get around to reading that), but hypothetically assuming that you are right.

He's a lead singer in the Church's chorus. And we are all singing the same note.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I mean, would it be in good taste for an Orthodox Christian living in fornication or any other sin to flaunt his/her activities before all?

I don't believe that heterosexuals in long-term monogamous relationships intended eventually for marriage (particularly in the engagement stage) are committing sin by having sex. I don't think that that is what was meant by fornication.

But what makes you speak of "flaunting activities"? So far I have not at all discussed my sexual lifestyle.

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I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

Why would you advertise a group who stands in direct opposition to Holy Orthodoxy?

I don't think that Axios is in opposition to orthodoxy.

Are YOU the Orthodox Church?

-I don't mean that to offend you or sound arrogant, but seriously...

No, I'm not. That's why I express my opinions and try to perceive what the Church teaches. You all seem convinced that the Church clearly teaches something. I see it as simply a modern phenomenon that has swept the majority of believers and will hopefully fade away soon.

Matthew 16:18"I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

If the gates of Hades shall not prevail against the Church, homosexual advocating will also not prevail against Her teachings.

Are you hearing what I'm saying? I don't see an inherent condemnation of homosexual acts as the Church's teaching, and thus if homosexual advocating prevailed, I don't think it would be the gates of hell prevailing against the Church.

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I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

LOL so are you the one who decides who is the Church and what they believe? I'm sorry but there is no way I can listen to you if you are like that...

The identity of the Church is never really clear. It's up to individuals to determine who they think the Church is. Only after that can they submit to the teachings of that body. I don't think you and I have terribly different conceptions of who the Church is. But for some reason you think the OCA is an absolute representative of the Ecumenical Church and I don't.

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I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com

I don't believe that heterosexuals in long-term monogamous relationships intended eventually for marriage (particularly in the engagement stage) are committing sin by having sex. I don't think that that is what was meant by fornication.

I think the bible makes it quite plain that intimacy is to be reserved for after marriage for the Christian. Why must we ape the secular world's ways? We are called apart to a different standard. Why can't people be grateful for the fact that someone loves them and wants to marry them and, out of gratitude and purity, save themselves for after the church marriage? I don't understand what is so hard about this.

We don't need another thread on homosexuality on this forum. The commonly understood teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church is that homosexual relations are sinful. We've allowed open discussion on the topic for some time, because we are aware of discussion in the Orthodox world concerning this issue, but frankly, I am not personally interested in allowing the forum to be a platform for constant questioning of commonly-accepted Orthodox moral teachings.

I don't intend to close the other threads that already exist, but this one is just provocative. Enough is enough.

It's clear he wants the attention and he's getting it... Sadly... But personally, OCNet needs to take a stronger stance on issues such as this.

Hope you are satisfied. Next time report your concerns to the moderators or bring it to the attention of Fr Chris directly, please.

Quote

People shouldn't come here seeking answers, but they do.

Sure they should. I totally disagree with your reasoning. People always say "talk to your priest for authoritative answers." 1: there are several priests on this forum 2: Priests don't always represent Orthodox teachings, as we can tell from the reports of some who are saying that priests teach them that certain things are not sins.

The following quote by Tamara is transferred from "Communion in the Catholic Church Thread" because it is very relevant to answering the above statement.

"I would take your question to a different Orthodox forum. This forum is set-up as a free-for-all. You will get opinions from all sorts of people with various political views who are not Orthodox clergy or even Orthodox Christians. Some folks who post on this forum are atheist who were once Orthodox Christians and some believe people can engage in homosexual acts and still be Orthodox Christians in good standing. In fact, I think all inquirers or catechumens would do well to go to other sites for Orthodox counsel, information or advice."

I agree, and to get the REAL stance of the Orthodox Church, talk to a real Priest, or even contact a seminary, don't come here for it... Even an official Orthodox-affiliated site such as the OCA or GOA is sufficient. But not a forum or blog...

Totally disagree, for the reasons stated in my post above, but I won't belabor the point, since the thread is locked and you can't respond to me. Contact me via private message if you'd like.