:
Uh, Morde has functioned as a solo laner for a far longer amount of time than he ever has as the supposed duo laner he was pushed into. How does Yuumi make his play pattern any more anti-synergistic than how he works in a solo lane?

What I mean by anti synergy is that Mordes power in his kit to have an ally near him is basically nullified by Yuumi (for example his W is unusable on Yuumi)
Or that Yuumi is the textbook example of a support you don't want to pick with a Morde ADC. I can't think of any other champ in the entire game that is worse when coupled with Morde.
Yes when compared to Solo Morde this lane doesn't make him any more anti synergistic. I don't think there is a champ that gets worse (ignoring xp) when coupled with another champ.

No the lowest winrate ever is release Syndra with like 27%
Also season 2 freshly reworked Evelynn (where they changed the stun to a slow) was so bad that people reported you for griefing when you picked her, don't remember the winrate tho

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8RkrHW9P,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-05-14T13:16:26.184+0000)
>
> Gnar would need to be mentally ill, have no arms, no monitor and would need to have a stroke and a seizure at the same time for him to die to a Tryndamere pre 6
>
> Mao is one of the hardest counters to Tryn right now
>
> Tryn can't deal damage to Malphite since the rework of Conq, he can't deal any damage to any tank since the Conq rework to be honest.
>
> Or better said, he can't deal any damage to anything that has at least 1 form of defensive mechanic in their kit.
>
> CRTL + C
> OP.GG
> CTRL + V
>
> Hasn't a singe game of Tryn recorded what a surprise
Tryndamere doesn't need to deal damage to Malphite. He can literally ignore him and hack away at the minion waves, forcing Malphite to use all his mana to keep it from crashing into his turret. If malphite tries to fight, walk up next to him and E away, use Q to heal any damage taken. Repeat forever - Malphite has extremely high mana costs and very long cooldowns, where Tryndamere has none.
Mao is the same except he actually has CC pre-6 and he can safely sit under turret and farm because Tryndamere can't dive him.
How to play against Gnar, step 1: Walk up to Gnar. Use W as Gnar tries to kite to slow him for 3 seconds. Now Gnar either stands and fights (and dies) or jumps away with his E (where Tryndamere E's after him). Gnar must now flash to survive Tryndamere, whereas he will be safely under his turret and Tryndamere will be largely unharmed.
Now, assuming they have their ults - Tryndamere's dash has a much, much lower cooldown than Gnar's - lowered further by crits. If the wave is frozen near Tryndamere's turret, Gnar can only farm with his Q from outside exp range if he doesn't want to lose half his health for each minion.
Most champions in League of Legends have low winrates because the majority of their players are incapable of grasping the basics of League of Legends. Riot has been nerfing more and more champions based on the elite few that are smart enough to play them to their full abilities, so giving Tryndamere a low-elo buff seems extremely hypocritical when they're simultaneously gutting other champions for high elo play.
You don't even have to be a good player to meet decent Tryndamere players. There are plenty in the middle elos (D4-D1). Naturally low elo (i4-D4) players won't be able to play him to his full abilities and thus lose matchups they should be winning. This is a fault of the players and doesn't reflect the state of the champion.

> Tryndamere doesn't need to deal damage to Malphite. He can literally ignore him and hack away at the minion waves, forcing Malphite to use all his mana to keep it from crashing into his turret. If malphite tries to fight, walk up next to him and E away, use Q to heal any damage taken. Repeat forever - Malphite has extremely high mana costs and very long cooldowns, where Tryndamere has none.
Malphite has absolutely no reason to not let the minions crash into his turret he has a rather easy time farming under the turret. Plus his AOE mana costs are normal, his Q is the only thing that costs a lot of mana.
Also this is basically just begging for the enemy to gank you.
Ontop of that Malphite doesn't have the need to get ahead of Tryn. Just by the nature of his kit he will come online faster than Tryn. So he has another reason to not give a shit about Tryn just perma pushing into him.
Only in the late stages of the game Tryn outscales a Malphite and I'm talking about 4+ items here, which basically almost never happens these days.
> Mao is the same except he actually has CC pre-6 and he can safely sit under turret and farm because Tryndamere can't dive him.
Tryn can't do anything against him in laning phase, Mao doesn't even need to play safe what is Tryn going to do?
He doesn't deal damage to him, none, nada, nothing.
This isn't a point about skill either Tryn is just unable to deal damage to Mao to a point where Mao is in kill range.
And that is exactly what a top tank wants. Just sit there and farm without ever being in danger because they will outscale their laner.
Tanks are the best class at teamfighting. If you can't get a lead on a tank in laning phase you basically "lost" the laning phase.
When tanks go uncontested in laning phase they become the meta. Remember what top was before Conqueror?
Tanks and Poke champs, nothing else.
> How to play against Gnar, step 1: Walk up to Gnar. Use W as Gnar tries to kite to slow him for 3 seconds. Now Gnar either stands and fights (and dies) or jumps away with his E (where Tryndamere E's after him). Gnar must now flash to survive Tryndamere, whereas he will be safely under his turret and Tryndamere will be largely unharmed.
Your plan already failed at step 1
Like said, if Gnar has arms and a monitor he wont let you just "walk up to him"
The first thing he will do is Q-Auto so you already have 2 stacks on you, now lets say you perfectly slow him on the first kite maneuver he does so thats a 30% slow, problem is he will auto you one more time and he will gain a 30% movementspeed buff, so basically he isn't slowed. This means he just slowed you with his Q but he isn't slowed himself.
He generates even more distance and stays in his kite range which either forces Tryn to E away or E into him because he can't just "walk up to him" since Gnar is stacking his shit again.
Tryn decides to be a complete fucking idiot and E's into Gnar which will let Gnar walk forward and double hop over Tryn procing his passive again and generating once again distance between him. Tryn now sits there like a duck while Gnar keeps autoing him.
That is how it will play out if you "walk up to a Gnar"
Maybe play a Tryn game against him then you'll understand.
> Most champions in League of Legends have low winrates because the majority of their players are incapable of grasping the basics of League of Legends. Riot has been nerfing more and more champions based on the elite few that are smart enough to play them to their full abilities, so giving Tryndamere a low-elo buff seems extremely hypocritical when they're simultaneously gutting other champions for high elo play.
Go watch Fogged, one of THE best Tryndamere players on this world
Tell him that Tryn runs over any melee and every tank and he will ask you if you're trolling or joking or bronze.
Also by the way, Tryndamere isn't great at high elo just because of the simplicity of his kit. So him being dogshit isn't the same reason as why Ryze has such a shit winrate in SoloQ.
Ryze is actually good in the hands of a good player. Tryn is shit no matter where you play.
> You don't even have to be a good player to meet decent Tryndamere players. There are plenty in the middle elos (D4-D1). Naturally low elo (i4-D4) players won't be able to play him to his full abilities and thus lose matchups they should be winning. This is a fault of the players and doesn't reflect the state of the champion.
pfffHAHAHAHA
Fogged, the guy with thousands and thousands of Tryndamere games under his belt, the guy reaching challenger season after season while one tricking Tryndamere struggles to find success with Tryndamere right now
But no, gotta find even better players than him to see how Tryndamere can be used to his full potential lol.
Hey how about you start one tricking Trynd and prove us all wrong
Or even better, how about you play at least 1 game of Tryndamere before talking about Tryndamere

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T13:09:51.806+0000)
>
> So your new definition of stat check is
> "if the STRONGEST part of a champion has 0 mechanical counterplay"
>
> In Aatrox case that would be W so an auto attack enhancer, essentially making his autos the stongest part of his kit.
>
> In which case wouldn't that throw 70% of the entire ADC roster in the "stat check" box?
>
> For how I see it, their autos are the strongest part of their kits and those can't be mechanically counterplayed.
>
> Edit: Or basically any auto attack based champion
Its because old aatrox was a pure melee champ with 2 abilities to help stay in range, and one that completely buffed autos.
Then you had the real problem; W basically said "i do more damage than you" or "i outheal your damage".
Because of how he worked, he either won through the fact that his w passive and r steroid outdid anything anyone can do, or he just died.
Yi is similar, but not as stat checky, given his healing needs to either be itemized or he needs to use his w/q smartly to deal with burst/cc. Aatrox didnt have even that level of gameplay.

> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-05-11T15:11:03.729+0000)
>
> Its because old aatrox was a pure melee champ with 2 abilities to help stay in range, and one that completely buffed autos.
He had a slow and a dash? That is rather normal for a melee champ.
This description is basically Camille, a dash, a slow and an ability that enhances auto attacks and nothing else.
> Then you had the real problem; W basically said "i do more damage than you" or "i outheal your damage".
You can nerf it to a reasonable value, like Xin passive or WW passive, or any other on-hit healing / damage amp really.
Riots neglect for the champion is the reason why it was rarely in an okay spot.
> Because of how he worked, he either won through the fact that his w passive and r steroid outdid anything anyone can do, or he just died.
That is again any auto based champion.
Tell me the difference between him and Camille
Any auto based champ has a kit that synergizes with autos. When you synergize with autos you typically have steroids to strengthen the autos.
I don't understand how old Aatrox auto steroids were problematic compared to Vayne or Kai'Sa, both of them have 0 ways to fuck up the important parts of their kit and both of their steroids are on-demand.
Also, the description you just told me is rather dumb, you weren't suppose to straight up facetank Aatrox and hope you won, Trundle will smash your face in too if you do that with him.
Aatrox strength was a dueling champion. It isn't easy to 1 v 1 a duel champion because thats exactly where they are strong at.
> Yi is similar, but not as stat checky, given his healing needs to either be itemized or he needs to use his w/q smartly to deal with burst/cc. Aatrox didnt have even that level of gameplay.
Ok you're telling me that Yi of all the champs out there isn't stat check but old Aatrox was?!
I'm sorry but everything you have just said points at Yi being a stat check too.
"Because of how he worked, he either won through the fact that his E passive and R steroid outdid anything anyone can do, or he just died."
That description is literally Yi.
Also old Aatrox Q was able to block cc if you timed it right, his E was a skillshot he had to aim, his passive was conditional and didn't always revive him, he had to stack it first.
And you're telling me he had nigh to no gameplay elements he had to consider?
Really feels like you didn't play him at all before the rework.

:
> [{quoted}](name=Quepha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8RkrHW9P,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-14T07:03:46.709+0000)
>
> He hard counters all the other tanks? Aside from Sion he still does very poorly against Ornn, Malphite, Gnar, and Mundo; He doesn't do especially well against Maokai or Cho either. Really the only tank he does well against is Shen but Shen is considered pretty weak for solo queue. Tryndamere usually has a very hard time against Juggernauts which make up most of the immobile tanky champions. You seem to have a very backwards understanding of his matchups.
Gnar is not a tank. Just saying. And these changes make tryndamere better against ranged champions, remember? Gnar could farm relatively safe against trynd pre-6 in the past - this is no longer the case.
Cho'gath needs to hit every Q. Every single one. If he misses one, the game is over for him. He will never be able to recover, and trynd can dive him every time his ult is up.
Maokai couldn't really do anything against tryndamere even before all the tanks were gutted. The last time he was relevant would be season 6, with the sunfire + iceborn meta.
Tryndamere shits on Malphite. There's nothing Malphite can do in trynd lanes - he can only sit under turret and pray Trynd doesn't freeze the lane near his own turret, because then he'll get killed if he tries to walk into exp range.
Old Ornn could do decently against Tryndamere. New Ornn has a hard time doing decently against anyone but Nasus. Tryndamere, like Yasuo, hard counters most of the juggernauts (the exceptions being Urgot, where it's a skill / jungler matchup and Illaoi, where she just smashes her face into the keyboard and wins every matchup other than Fiora or Renekton anyway.)
In the past, Teemo and Malphite were prime counterpicks for Tryndamere. Now Tryndamere is a prime counterpick for Teemo and Malphite, because of his spin - which, this patch, got an enormous buff.

> Gnar could farm relatively safe against trynd pre-6 in the past - this is no longer the case.
Gnar would need to be mentally ill, have no arms, no monitor and would need to have a stroke and a seizure at the same time for him to die to a Tryndamere pre 6
> Maokai couldn't really do anything against tryndamere even before all the tanks were gutted. The last time he was relevant would be season 6, with the sunfire + iceborn meta.
Mao is one of the hardest counters to Tryn right now
> Tryndamere shits on Malphite. There's nothing Malphite can do in trynd lanes - he can only sit under turret and pray Trynd doesn't freeze the lane near his own turret, because then he'll get killed if he tries to walk into exp range.
Tryn can't deal damage to Malphite since the rework of Conq, he can't deal any damage to any tank since the Conq rework to be honest.
Or better said, he can't deal any damage to anything that has at least 1 form of defensive mechanic in their kit.
> In the past, Teemo and Malphite were prime counterpicks for Tryndamere. Now Tryndamere is a prime counterpick for Teemo and Malphite, because of his spin - which, this patch, got an enormous buff.
CRTL + C
OP.GG
CTRL + V
Hasn't a singe game of Tryn recorded what a surprise

> He already hard-counters all the other tanks (and in general bruisers) in the game besides Sion and Jayce
Are you joking?
(all stats taken from OP.GG)
He has a sub 45% winrate against
{{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:518}}
Quinn is even sub 40% winrate!! This is fucking sad.
He has a sub 50% winrate against
{{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:112}}
Here is a quick run down against matchups where he has a 50% or higher winrate
{{champion:39}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:43}}
Thats it
Unstoppable and runs down every melee by the way. Tryndamere is a straight up dogshit champion right now.
And even after the buffs he will stay absolute dogshit.

:
I mean, for what it's worth, I played 10 games of Nami mid and had a 60%WR with it...I'm sure if I went 10 games as Ashe top, I'd get 90 reports, but I'd probably have a decent WR by the end of it.
I'm still taking this about 51% seriously. :P

:
All you get in Overwatch via voice chat is "kill yourself / you're a loser / I hope you die".
And the most baffling thing about it is how casually people say that to eachother and how they think it's OK to say that.
Same thing will happen to League when they introduce voice chat, on the NA servers that it.
On EUW noone will ever use the voice chat other than some random spanish kids blasting their spanish techno music through the mic.

> [{quoted}](name=Zac x Me,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=j1xbzXzw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-13T06:38:35.889+0000)
> Same thing will happen to League when they introduce voice chat, on the NA servers that it.
> On EUW noone will ever use the voice chat other than some random spanish kids blasting their spanish techno music through the mic.
EUW would love voice chat what are you talking about?
Also don't talk smack about spanish techno music

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T10:09:04.177+0000)
>
> Would you STOP using CAPS in the MIDDLE of a SENTENCE its ANNOYING
>
> ??????
> Aatrox W gave him damage or healing every 3 autos
>
> You can find a handful of champs with 3 hit passives and when those are not enough you can streamline Aatrox W
> Divide the amount he healed or dealt bonus damage by 3 and you get the on-hit value.
>
> Which would make W just like old Varus on-hit enhancer
>
> Both are free stats, stop trying do pull out mental gymnastics trying to argue that they aren't.
> Jinx attack speed buff is the same as Aatrox W.
>
> Since the Passive is also counted as an ability then most auto attack based champs fall into this category again and because... get this....
> Their kit is based around auto attacking and auto enhancers.
>
> Shocker I know
>
> You are talking random gibberish and make certian words in caps so it sounds right, what you said above makes absolutely no sense
>
> "Gaining bonus stats for auto attacking and having an ability that benefits from auto attacking is not the same"
>
> Like what?! What kind of logic is this by that defintion Tryndamere and Jax are not stat check because they gain their auto strength BY auto attacking and not relying on an ability to auto attack.
I would not put words in caps if you stop being disingenuous.
Again your being disingenuous like come on man whyyy? Aatrox was based around his w whereas varus is not in fact there are builds based around using his q and jinx is not need her attack speed buff to be a champion. Like again why are you being disingenuous? Like none to the champions you listed are based around those buffs like you can build varus around his w but ap on hit varus is not good.
Also auto attacking is not a passive every champion auto attacks. Like again you don't know what a stat check is but your arguing about why?
Again your lying I never said this
"Gaining bonus stats for auto attacking and having an ability that benefits from auto attacking is not the same"
Like why are you making shit up????

> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T10:39:46.666+0000)
> Again your being disingenuous like come on man whyyy? Aatrox was based around his w whereas varus is not in fact there are builds based around using his q and jinx is not need her attack speed buff to be a champion. Like again why are you being disingenuous? Like none to the champions you listed are based around those buffs like you can build varus around his w but ap on hit varus is not good.
Are you deliberately trying to not understand?
"Jinx doesn't need her attack speed buff to be a champion" Yeah sure buddy lets just remove her entire passive and the insane AS buff on her Minigun and see how well she does
Aight you listed Legolas Varus, so what?
Every other champ I listed has exactly 1 build path apart from Kai'Sa
And AP Aatrox was also a thing does that mean he wasn't stat check, after your defintion it is!
> Also auto attacking is not a passive every champion auto attacks. Like again you don't know what a stat check is but your arguing about why?
Ok youre just a troll
> Again your lying I never said this
> "Gaining bonus stats for auto attacking and having an ability that benefits from auto attacking is not the same"
> Like why are you making shit up????
thats exactly what you said
Youre a troll, dont bother responding, talking with you is a waste of time

Black Cleaver is a straight up dog shit item
You only buy this thing if you have absolutely no other thing to buy as a bruiser, Darius stopped buying it Garen stopped buying it.
It's mega trash, you need to give it a melee only bonus if you want stuff like Camille to buy it.

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T09:34:25.572+0000)
>
> "Attack speed buffs are not free stats" - boricCentaur1 2019
> I'm not even going to argue about this
>
> And now we are back at the "when the strongest part of the champ has 0 mechanical counterplay" and I will tell you again that any auto based champ falls into that category
>
> Just admit that Aatrox wasn't reworked because he was "stat check" and be done with it
Again STOP DISINGENUOUS PLEASE. I like it sad that your arguments are so bad you have lie lol.
Again I said BASED AROUND stat buff and not having a stat buff.
Again a stat check is based around a ability giving the stats and not auto attacks so were not back to it your just lying.
Like here is your post "idk what to say since I'm wrong but don't want to say so I'll just lie about that he said and act like I'm right"

> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T09:43:02.636+0000)
>
> Again STOP DISINGENUOUS PLEASE. I like it sad that your arguments are so bad you have lie lol.
>
> Again I said BASED AROUND stat buff and not having a stat buff.
>
> Again a stat check is based around a ability giving the stats and not auto attacks so were not back to it your just lying.
>
> Like here is your post "idk what to say since I'm wrong but don't want to say so I'll just lie about that he said and act like I'm right"
Would you STOP using CAPS in the MIDDLE of a SENTENCE its ANNOYING
> Again I said BASED AROUND stat buff and not having a stat buff.
??????
Aatrox W gave him damage or healing every 3 autos
You can find a handful of champs with 3 hit passives and when those are not enough you can streamline Aatrox W
Divide the amount he healed or dealt bonus damage by 3 and you get the on-hit value.
Which would make W just like old Varus on-hit enhancer
Both are free stats, stop trying do pull out mental gymnastics trying to argue that they aren't.
Jinx attack speed buff is the same as Aatrox W.
> Again a stat check is based around a ability giving the stats and not auto attacks so were not back to it your just lying.
Since the Passive is also counted as an ability then most auto attack based champs fall into this category again and because... get this....
Their kit is based around auto attacking and auto enhancers.
Shocker I know
> Like here is your post "idk what to say since I'm wrong but don't want to say so I'll just lie about that he said and act like I'm right"
You are talking random gibberish and make certian words in caps so it sounds right, what you said above makes absolutely no sense
"Gaining bonus stats for auto attacking and having an ability that benefits from auto attacking is not the same"
Like what?! What kind of logic is this by that defintion Tryndamere and Jax are not stat check because they gain their auto strength BY auto attacking and not relying on an ability to auto attack.

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:57:39.902+0000)
>
> If it's so much of a fact why does everyone have so much trouble defining him as "stat check" without also throwing 20% of the league roster into that same box
>
> Wait are you dumb?
>
> {{champion:498}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:110}}
>
> They all have auto attack enhancers in their kit and those are only ADCs
>
> If that is your defintion then I have to disagree that Aatrox was stat check.
> 50% of his kit (excluding the passive) was able to be directly mechanically counterplayed by any champion in the game.
>
> If that is your final definition of stat check then league has more stat-checks than non-stat-check champions
NO ONE HAS TROUBLE it's just you are trying to be disingenuous and that's it. Like I fucking said BASED AROUND ability giving them free stats but you just listed adcs who have a attack speed buff THOSE ARE NOT THE SAME. Kindred is not based around there fucking q attack speed and it's the same with the rest.
Like like 50% of his kite means nothing since the majority of his power came from his w and not the rest of his kit that's like saying {{champion:429}} is a easy adc since most of her kit is point and click.
Like maybe stop trying to be disingenuous to win arguments.

> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T09:18:09.683+0000)
>
> NO ONE HAS TROUBLE it's just you are trying to be disingenuous and that's it. Like I fucking said BASED AROUND ability giving them free stats but you just listed adcs who have a attack speed buff THOSE ARE NOT THE SAME. Kindred is not based around there fucking q attack speed and it's the same with the rest.
>
> Like like 50% of his kite means nothing since the majority of his power came from his w and not the rest of his kit that's like saying {{champion:429}} is a easy adc since most of her kit is point and click.
>
> Like maybe stop trying to be disingenuous to win arguments.
"Attack speed buffs are not free stats" - boricCentaur1 2019
I'm not even going to argue about this
And now we are back at the "when the strongest part of the champ has 0 mechanical counterplay" and I will tell you again that any auto based champ falls into that category
Just admit that Aatrox wasn't reworked because he was "stat check" and be done with it

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T13:09:51.806+0000)
>
> So your new definition of stat check is
> "if the STRONGEST part of a champion has 0 mechanical counterplay"
>
> In Aatrox case that would be W so an auto attack enhancer, essentially making his autos the stongest part of his kit.
>
> In which case wouldn't that throw 70% of the entire ADC roster in the "stat check" box?
>
> For how I see it, their autos are the strongest part of their kits and those can't be mechanically counterplayed.
>
> Edit: Or basically any auto attack based champion
Are you trolling? Like Aatrox was a stat check that is a fucking fact.
Name me the fucking adcs that are based around a ability giving them stats? The only one that comes close is kog a champion most people would say needs a rework but he is not really a stat check.
Like a stat check COMES FROM THERE ABILITIES AND NOTHING ELSE. Why are you arguing if don't even know what a stat check is?

> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-11T00:49:43.758+0000)
>
> Are you trolling? Like Aatrox was a stat check that is a fucking fact.
>
> Name me the fucking adcs that are based around a ability giving them stats? The only one that comes close is kog a champion most people would say needs a rework but he is not really a stat check.
>
> Like a stat check COMES FROM THERE ABILITIES AND NOTHING ELSE. Why are you arguing if don't even know what a stat check is?
If it's so much of a fact why does everyone have so much trouble defining him as "stat check" without also throwing 20% of the league roster into that same box
Wait are you dumb?
{{champion:498}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:110}}
They all have auto attack enhancers in their kit and those are only ADCs
> Like a stat check COMES FROM THERE ABILITIES AND NOTHING ELSE. Why are you arguing if don't even know what a stat check is?
If that is your defintion then I have to disagree that Aatrox was stat check.
50% of his kit (excluding the passive) was able to be directly mechanically counterplayed by any champion in the game.
If that is your final definition of stat check then league has more stat-checks than non-stat-check champions

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T12:56:25.758+0000)
>
> So a champion with 0 mechanical counterplay in essence
>
> However how do you then justify old Aatrox as stat check when 50% of his kit (excluding the passive) was directly mechanically counterable?
>
> And then looking at his passive, knowing when the revive will be up or not and being able to plan ahead according to that?
>
> I have a really hard time seeing that as "stat check" to be honest
Because you're going by number of abilities, not actual worth.
Aatrox's Q you never really had to land, it was mostly just used to be roughly in range of the opponent and landing the knockup was a nice bonus, and E wasn't really a huge combat thing - it was mostly just some poke and waveclear, and the times you *did* use it in combat you were already in too close of range for it to actually be dodged. W was, by *far*, the biggest part of his kit.

> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T13:03:33.571+0000)
>
> Because you're going by number of abilities, not actual worth.
>
> Aatrox's Q you never really had to land, it was mostly just used to be roughly in range of the opponent and landing the knockup was a nice bonus, and E wasn't really a huge combat thing - it was mostly just some poke and waveclear, and the times you *did* use it in combat you were already in too close of range for it to actually be dodged. W was, by *far*, the biggest part of his kit.
So your new definition of stat check is
"if the STRONGEST part of a champion has 0 mechanical counterplay"
In Aatrox case that would be W so an auto attack enhancer, essentially making his autos the stongest part of his kit.
In which case wouldn't that throw 70% of the entire ADC roster in the "stat check" box?
For how I see it, their autos are the strongest part of their kits and those can't be mechanically counterplayed.
Edit: Or basically any auto attack based champion

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T12:38:44.849+0000)
>
> Can you please explain me the word "stat check"
Sure. A statcheck is any champion who wins fights through simply having the sheer *stats* to win (instead of heavy strategy or skill being required) and this being constantly true. A champion that gets fed as fuck will win through sheer stats, but this does not mean they're a statcheck - just as if you wear a green shirt it doesn't mean you are green yourself.

> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T12:47:09.046+0000)
>
> Sure. A statcheck is any champion who wins fights through simply having the sheer *stats* to win (instead of heavy strategy or skill being required) and this being constantly true. A champion that gets fed as fuck will win through sheer stats, but this does not mean they're a statcheck - just as if you wear a green shirt it doesn't mean you are green yourself.
So a champion with 0 mechanical counterplay in essence
However how do you then justify old Aatrox as stat check when 50% of his kit (excluding the passive) was directly mechanically counterable?
(technically seen 75% but his ult was rather hard to miss)
And then looking at his passive, knowing when the revive will be up or not and being able to plan ahead according to that?
I have a really hard time seeing that as "stat check" to be honest

> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBBuy5mR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-10T12:29:08.048+0000)
>
> My favorite are those who want his old W back, despite it being the biggest problem of his old kit - The part that *allowed* him to be a statcheck.
Can you please explain me the word "stat check"

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6Wd2iKE,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T10:38:41.120+0000)
>
> Seems like you have a problem with reading more than 5 words before typing your response
>
> "Yorick cage is a 4 second snare --> IF &lt;-- the enemy can't get out of it or destroy it fast enough"
>
> Got it now?
> Good
>
> Also at later ranks the wall has up to 4HP
>
> Got buffed recently, he has to hit 1 Q knockup to ensure the W pull.
> If every Aatrox you encountered was pure dogshit than that is not my problem.
>
> If every Urgot you see is pure dogshit than that is not my problem
>
> Maybe climb to encounter competent players
>
> Yes it's also just a slow that gets hard countered by mercs / swifties / any type of cleanse effect / PR
>
> pfffhhaaaHAHAHAHAHA
>
> Nice joke, really made my day!
Right. Tell me how a champion might be unable to aa Yoricks cage twice?
You would have to be blinded, out of flash and have no dash. What is the probability.
BUT EVEN THEN. How would a 4 sec root THAT YOU HAVE TO AIM WITH would compare to a 5 sec 95% slow that is a pointclick.
I know that you feel butthurted cuz someone dares to roast your main, but please don't make a fool out of yourself publicly.
With Aatrox you still have to aim with your W, and you can always escape it with flash in worst case. You cant escape Nasus slow.
Man if avoiding Aatrox W is a challenge for you, you might wanna actually get out of Iron. I guarantee you, you wont find it difficult any longer. The story with Urgot is literally the same. The animation is so fucking slow that I literally have enough time to dash sideways and vomit my whole combo into him, before he finishes the animation xD

> Right. Tell me how a champion might be unable to aa Yoricks cage twice?
>
> You would have to be blinded, out of flash and have no dash. What is the probability.
> BUT EVEN THEN. How would a 4 sec root THAT YOU HAVE TO AIM WITH would compare to a 5 sec 95% slow that is a pointclick.
Mainly mages because their autos suck ass
But if you're looking for specific top lane matchups I would say Vlad / Morde / Ryze / Karma / Jayce / Teemo / Kennen / Ornn / Malphite / Gangplank / Rumble / Neeko / Viktor etc.
All of them have issues getting away from the cage once Yorick hits it.
> I know that you feel butthurted cuz someone dares to roast your main, but please don't make a fool out of yourself publicly.
>
> With Aatrox you still have to aim with your W, and you can always escape it with flash in worst case. You cant escape Nasus slow.
I have played Aatrox maybe 10 times since season 3 but it's my main I guess
Like said, not my fault that you play against apes that have no idea how to pilot the champion
> Man if avoiding Aatrox W is a challenge for you, you might wanna actually get out of Iron. I guarantee you, you wont find it difficult any longer. The story with Urgot is literally the same. The animation is so fucking slow that I literally have enough time to dash sideways and vomit my whole combo into him, before he finishes the animation xD
Thats why Urgot doesn't use the dash before you use your escape xD
Why do you think RG is core on him xD
Because the helmet looks cool? xD
If you have no idea how a champion works maybe don't talk about it xD

Tryn doesn't need a lot of micro, you need to understand macro to use Tryn to his full potential so one tricking him doesn't do much other than learning that 1 combo of his.
I wouldn't go with Shyvana, personally I think she is just a worse Jax unless you play the AP build.
I don't know how you go from Tryn / Shyv to Twitch / Luc / Ezreal but those are ADCs
Lucian is a good lane bully to get an early lead and finish the game ASAP
Twitch is a late game monster, early game is rough though.
I wouldn't go with Ezreal, he is strong in the right hands but he can rarely 1 v 5 it.
Fiora is a really good duelist and splitpusher, also scales well into late game, however has some really hard counters that shut her down in laning phase.
At the end I would recommend Lucian or Fiora to become a good mechanical player
Tryndamere if you want to learn the game as a whole
I wouldn't recommend Ezreal or Shyvana
You can try to OTP Twitch if you like his playstyle otherwise I would stay away from him too.

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6Wd2iKE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T09:40:52.441+0000)
>
> LUL
>
> Yorick cage is a 4 second snare if the enemy can't get out of it or destroy it fast enough
>
> Garen is a joke
>
> Also Darius/Urgot/Aatrox cc is better than Nasus.
> Which leaves him in the 4th or 5th spot out of 8 juggernauts in the game
.... wut?
Yoricks cage aint a snare, you can dash away from it (Renekton, Graves, Yasuo anyone with dash actually) or flash away from it. You cannot do that with Morganas Q which is an actual snare.
Also Yoricks cage dies with 2 autoattacks.... man if you trying to look for counter examples forcefully, stop. You are making yourself look stupid.
Yoricks cc in NOT better than Nasus one.
Aatrox cage/chain thingie is also a joke, since his rework I literally never got pulled by it. You can walk away from it easily. I'd say ts the easiest thing to avoid out of all kinds of cc in entire lol.
Urgots dash is easily avoidable, I dodge it with Graves every time, if you really have some problems with seeing this long af animation on his E, get some glasses.
Obviously that is not the case with Nasus, you cannot dodge it, you cannot avoid it, you cannot dash away form it.
Nasus has the strongest cc beside Darius on toplane.

> .... wut?
> Yoricks cage aint a snare, you can dash away from it (Renekton, Graves, Yasuo anyone with dash actually) or flash away from it. You cannot do that with Morganas Q which is an actual snare.
>
> Also Yoricks cage dies with 2 autoattacks.... man if you trying to look for counter examples forcefully, stop. You are making yourself look stupid.
> Yoricks cc in NOT better than Nasus one.
Seems like you have a problem with reading more than 5 words before typing your response
"Yorick cage is a 4 second snare --> IF &lt;-- the enemy can't get out of it or destroy it fast enough"
Got it now?
Good
Also at later ranks the wall has up to 4HP
> Aatrox cage/chain thingie is also a joke, since his rework I literally never got pulled by it. You can walk away from it easily. I'd say ts the easiest thing to avoid out of all kinds of cc in entire lol.
Got buffed recently, he has to hit 1 Q knockup to ensure the W pull.
If every Aatrox you encountered was pure dogshit than that is not my problem.
> Urgots dash is easily avoidable, I dodge it with Graves every time, if you really have some problems with seeing this long af animation on his E, get some glasses.
If every Urgot you see is pure dogshit than that is not my problem
Maybe climb to encounter competent players
> Obviously that is not the case with Nasus, you cannot dodge it, you cannot avoid it, you cannot dash away form it.
Yes it's also just a slow that gets hard countered by mercs / swifties / any type of cleanse effect / PR
> Nasus has the strongest cc beside Darius on toplane.
pfffhhaaaHAHAHAHAHA
Nice joke, really made my day!

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h6Wd2iKE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-08T09:33:59.344+0000)
>
> It's not a 95% slow over 5 seconds it's a 35% increasing to a 95% slow over 5 seconds.
>
> If it was a straight 95% slow over 5 seconds it would be WAY worse.
>
> Also "Camille slow can be dodged" LMAO
> Yeah maybe because she doesn't need to hit with that stupid ass dash ranging from mid lane to planet mars and that point and click ult where you LITERALLY can't walk away from no matter what you do.
>
> Camille is worse than Nasus ever will be
Exactly what I expected.....
You guys don't focus on the clue, instead you attack me because I dared to say something about ur favorite champ.
I'm not saying Camille is fine, I'm saying that at least her W is dodgeable, because that's the truth, you can dodge her W and you will never be able to dodge a pointclick.
I'm comparing Nasus cc to cc of other juggernauts and highlight that Nasus one is clearly much more superior to cc of other juggernauts, because that's true. His cc is much stronger than Yoricks or Garens.

> instead you attack me
LUL
> I'm comparing Nasus cc to cc of other juggernauts and highlight that Nasus one is clearly much more superior to cc of other juggernauts, because that's true. His cc is much stronger than Yoricks or Garens.
Yorick cage is a 4 second snare if the enemy can't get out of it or destroy it fast enough
Garen is a joke
Also Darius/Urgot/Aatrox cc is better than Nasus.
Which leaves him in the 4th or 5th spot out of 8 juggernauts in the game

:
Eh...it works into some matchups. Most notably Nasus and Darius. If you can keep your range, those two are so easily kited without flash it's laughable, and they cant really do anything to stop you from turning them into hedgehogs.
It's by no means strong though.

Yeah dude I want to see you kite Nasus once he has his Frozen Heart completed good luck with that one
And everything with range kind of works against Darius it's Darius. Problem is if the jungler even has half a brain he will gank you twice and you're done.
Or that once he hooks you, you are dead. Ashe doesn't have any disengage, Darius hooks you and dead.

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7EE1qreu,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T15:29:56.223+0000)
>
> No I'm not jealous since you offered me to buy one too, remember?
>
> https://imgur.com/KRhfJ1t
>
> Also here is a little reminder that you actually actively played 3 v 3 normals with Comet Ghost / Heal on every champ but suddenly switched out of nowhere :(
>
> Damn what a coincidence ey?
>
> https://imgur.com/S6fnXMu
>
> Playing dumb only works in movies and even there it's like a 50/50
If i said i was barrack obama would you believe me too {{sticker:sg-lulu}}

> [{quoted}](name=ShirleyfG,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7EE1qreu,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T15:36:29.192+0000)
>
> If i said i was barrack obama would you believe me too {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
playing dumb still doesn't work

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7EE1qreu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-08T14:53:12.826+0000)
>
> Your account is still a botted account you bought and I don't know what you are doing here
>
> "oh wow a smurf with a high winrate what a god, please teach me so I can buy a botted account and reach these winrates too! OwO"
>
> Do you want to hear that or what?
>
> Hey at least you are right with the last thing you wrote tho!
Thing is i'm not a smurf.
This is the highest rank i ever got.
Now please take your toxicity some where else >:
You're just jealous {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}

> [{quoted}](name=ShirleyfG,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7EE1qreu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T14:54:48.285+0000)
>
> Thing is i'm not a smurf.
> This is the highest rank i ever got.
>
> Now please take your toxicity some where else >:
>
> You're just jealous {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
No I'm not jealous since you offered me to buy one too, remember?
https://imgur.com/KRhfJ1t
Also here is a little reminder that you actually actively played 3 v 3 normals with Comet Ghost / Heal on every champ but suddenly switched out of nowhere :(
Damn what a coincidence ey?
https://imgur.com/S6fnXMu
Playing dumb only works in movies and even there it's like a 50/50

Your account is still a botted account you bought and I don't know what you are doing here
"oh wow a smurf with a high winrate what a god, please teach me so I can buy a botted account and reach these winrates too! OwO"
Do you want to hear that or what?
Hey at least you are right with the last thing you wrote tho!

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T13:52:09.666+0000)
>
> WITHOUT this LP and Promo system
>
> The system you tell me is WITH LP and Promos
>
> Also I genuienly think they are rolling the dice when determining LP gain, I gain 24 per win, promote and boom
>
> 16 per win
>
> Edit: Especially shitty in Diamond 4. You can just be hardstuck with winrates of 65% here.
>
> In R6 you would just increase in rank with that winrate, see the difference?
average elo of p1 2.2k
average elo of d4 2.4k
you go in p1 at neutral elo
you gain 100 lp and win your promos
lets say you won your promos at 3/2
now you are 2320 elo
where the average is 2.4k
you are below the average
and thus are getting lower lp gains
now the moment you reach the 2.4k your elo gains will normalize and if you do shoot up with a fairly high win rate to d3
your elo will be higher than 2.5k which is the average of d3 and thus you will be gaining good lp
now if you go to d3 with 55% win rate and you are on the average 2.5k as you promote
and you go on a 4-5 game losing streak you won't demote due to demotion protection
but your elo goes down to 2.4k while you are at d3 which is below the average of D3
and thus you will be gaining shit lp for a while until you normalize your win rate again
This means that you can be gaining shit elo with a high win % just because you went on a losing streak on a demotion protection
Ie the the new system protects you from your tilt
but no just bash on the system without understanding how it works
The numbers i used are fictional and serve to illustrate my point the actual numbers may or may not vary

> Especially shitty in Diamond 4. You can just be hardstuck with winrates of 65% here.
>
> In R6 you would just increase in rank with that winrate, see the difference?
Now re-read your reply
What is the point in promoting me to an elo where the average elo is higher than mine?!
That by definition just says that I shouldn't be there and it demoralizes everyone that gets there. Why do you think D4 is such a shithole?
"Oh well you were Iron 4 but then you instantly promoted to Grandmaster so your LP gains are naturally +0.1 per win and -500 per lose until it normalizes again, just have to have a 99% winrate lmao good luck"
Pure stupidity
Just remove the promos, and make the whole rank just LP based, you gain XY LP per win and lose XY per lose depending on how well you are doing.
Then put ranks on the LP and you're done.
So you don't hop from 2.2k to 2.4k for no fucking reason bricking your progress in the process which would have been totally fine if you increased the hop by a normal amount.

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T13:43:28.765+0000)
>
> you can just do "1500-2000 elo equals Diamond"
>
> So people can say "hey i reached Diamond" without this LP and Promo system
THIS IS HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS
how do you think your LP gains are decided? riot flipping a coin? have you no sense of logic?

WITHOUT this LP and Promo system
The system you tell me is WITH LP and Promos
Also I genuienly think they are rolling the dice when determining LP gain, I gain 24 per win, promote and boom
16 per win
Edit: Especially shitty in Diamond 4. You can just be hardstuck with winrates of 65% here.
In R6 you would just increase in rank with that winrate, see the difference?

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-08T13:02:57.857+0000)
>
> didn't say it was better
that is the alternative
you being at 1750 elo meant just that

:
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lzzvNh6E,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-05-08T12:32:58.566+0000)
>
> Diamond+ says no
well i guess going from position 1 116 000 to 1 320 000 while you slept was a better system

:
because the system got changed in saeson 3 to give better sense of player position on the ladder since 1600 lp didn't mean much
if you win/lose 20 you are at your division bracket
if you win more you are below your division
if you win less you are above your division

"Double Damage" with that you mean the 175% damage on Q where the 75% damage increase would be the damage of a single auto attack
This is actually bad because you get less DPS on an isolated single target now since you don't care about how long you are untargetable you just care about avoiding that 1 spell you wanted to avoid and then get back to auto attacking.
So this isn't just a buff it can be also seen as a nerf.
The 0.8 seconds untargetable stance is now flat so enemies have an easier time to react.
"Straight up AS buff" looks like you aren't great with numbers m8, the level 11 and level 16 ult gives LESS AS now (btw Highlander changes got reverted for now)
"Cast time removed on meditate" that time was like 0.05 seconds, you wont notice that thing at all, you call that a "massive" buff?
The AD he lost on E isn't just like -3 AD that is -10% AD.
When he has 300 AD that is 30AD he is missing.
And then we of course ignore the Guinsoos nerf on the PBE (because why include that right? Not like it's one of his core items or something)
Then we are also nerfing his main keystone (again why include that right? Not like he uses that thing)
And all of that bullshit is equivalent to a "massive" buff to you