Vedas are the foundation of birth-based caste discrimination. It is in Vedas – the oldest scriptures of Hindus – that the seeds of casteism were laid. And since then exploitation of certain sections of population became mainstay of Hinduism. The conditions aggravated further later, but the foundation was in Vedas – the ultimate authority for all Hindus. And because Vedas are ultimate unquestionable authority for a Hindu, there was no way for the rot of caste-system to be eliminated from the society.

The above stated belief system seems to be the predominant opinion regarding origin of caste system infecting a wide diaspora of so-called ‘intellectual’ mindsets.

Intellectuals from other religions use this as main excuse to hate Hinduism. So those involved in conversion from Hinduism and justifying the conversions done by them or their ancestors would find a convenient justification in blaming it on ‘Vedic’ birth-based caste system. Its a winning proposition for them thus.

Casteist self-proclaimed Brahmins and so-called Upper-castes use Vedas as the tool to defend their ‘divine’ special rights regardless of their actual deeds. For them, of course, nothing could be more lucrative than an order from Vedas to continue giving an MBBS degree to all future generations of a doctor regardless of whether they actually could even spell ‘medicine’!

Dalit leaders including Ambedkar have used this to explain discrimination in society and further their own political agenda. Who would like to destroy the entire vote-bank by destroying the very foundation of caste-system in totality? So even though Ambedkar admitted that the only means for him to interpret Vedas were works of western indologists since his own knowledge was grossly inadequate, he chose to still ridicule the Vedas even though in other areas like Aryan Invasion Theory he vehemently criticized the western view!

Even someone like Mohandas Gandhi – on whose name the recent ‘Gandhian’ movement against corruption led by Anna Hazare made history -was bugged by this syndrome. Despite his other apparently mature views, with regards to birth-based caste-system, Mohandas Gandhi held firm belief that it was divine and essence of Hinduism. So instead to refusing to accept the very foundation of casteism, he chose to legitimize it further by giving a special name to certain people – Harijan. What could be a greater insult to them than giving them a tag in same manner as Arab looters would put chains over their slaves aka Non Arab Muslims and call them ‘Mawali’? And now they say that ‘Mawali’ actually has a noble meaning! But blood-caste theory was so deeply entrenched that calling dark people of Africa as ‘raw naked Kafirs’ or ‘chandals’ or calling for ‘purity of race’ amounted to service of humanity! (refer http://www.trinicenter.com/WorldNews/ghandi4.htm for some references)

In fact the reason why ‘Harijan’ seemed to be the right word for so-called Shudras is that as per foolish neo-Hindu castiest views, Hari Bhakti was the ONLY spiritual option for Shudras as they were disallowed access to any Vedic literature! So by calling them ‘Harijans’ one can serve votebank of bigoted ‘upper castes’, neutral intellectuals and even ‘lower-castes’. And indeed the trick worked if we were to assess the popularity of this word with a demeaning intent.

We do not deny Mohandas’ contribution to society and nation. We admire his charisma. But for sure there are thousands of more unbiased non-dogmatic minds born in this nation who have contributed as much if not more. So despite all that Mohandas Gandhi is claimed to have done for the nation, we can no way admire someone who supported apartheid – the worst of the crimes – so vocally. Our firm belief is that the over-hype and imposition of Gandhi on India at cost of utter negligence of so many other role models that this oldest civilization of world has produced is driven by reasons that are different from an unbiased analysis of personalities and their concrete contributions. We need not elaborate on views of his protege Nehru whose ‘Discovery of India’ clearly proves his intent and wisdom. But all that is not the focus of this article. The crux is that even so-called reformer politicians could not rise over the myth of Vedic caste system for various selfish and non-intellectual reasons.

(None other Swami Dayanand had the guts to proclaim in clear terms, with evidences and reason, that no one is born Brahmin. A duffer born to a so-called Brahmin is worse than a Shudra, and a scholar born in family of even a so-called Chandal is a Brahmin. So those who call certain people ‘Shudra’ on basis of birth are actually duffers and worse than Shudras themselves.)

We are fully with Annaji on the tirade against corruption but pray that he is using Gandhism as a political ploy but unequivocally rejects the casteist and racist views of Mohandas.

Western indologists, of course, found a golden opportunity in the so-called Vedic caste-system to dissuade Hindus from their foundations. They knew that most Indian intellectuals simply parrot what their white-Aakaas (Lords) utter and that is exactly what is happening even till today. They had to do nothing great when foolish Hindus were still clinging to termite-hill of casteism as their foundation despite all the slavery and downfall it had brought to them over last thousand years and even more. All British had to do was to propagate the garbage works on Vedas by their paid indologists in lingua-franca – English – and make it the predominant view on Vedas worldwide. After all a false marketed smartly becomes a truth! Even a toilet cleaner advertised well becomes drink of success!

Thus we see that there were vested interests of all – the loser, the victor, the lawyer, the judge, the neutral observer of drama – in ensuring that caste-system and the blame of its foundation in Vedas be continued and furthered.

But Agniveer cannot tolerate it

There were from time to time voices raised against this stupid caste system. Those were the great men who did so and Agniveer hails them as role models. But even they could not go to the root and question the very foundation of this hoax – ‘that Vedas sanction birth-based caste system’. So their efforts only led to dissuasion of masses away from their own foundation – Vedas – and helped the enemy forces even more.

If someone calls your mother an indecent lady, you do not expel your mother. You instead explore the truth of the allegation, defend your mother if there is no such evidence and reject her only when there is a conclusive evidence to contrary.

But those who can reject their mother at the very first hearsay are simply acting insane. What other adjectives can be used for them is left to readers. However the crux is that Vedas are mother for entire humanity – the first source of knowledge and wisdom and direction like mother’s milk. Those who neglect the mother or abuse her without any logical basis are bound to perish!

The humanity is facing troubles today because it neglected the mother. And we, the natives of this subcontinent, suffer even more ignominy and ironies and tragedies and problems because we were closest to mother in recent history and yet chose to neglect her, or even malign her. We truly deserved greater punishments and we rightly received them!

However there are no surprises that we as foolish Hindus act so insane. After all we derive our inspiration from fake and bogus stories from dubious texts that glamorize Sita’s exile by Rama and Harishchandra selling his wife! Even God can help only those who desire to help themselves!

And that is exactly why legends like Swami Dayanand and their progeny like Agniveer stand so strongly in defense of Vedas. Even if all other children of the mother choose to harm her or neglect her out of intent or foolishness, that does not grant each of us an automatic divine approval to also neglect her and act even more foolish. The Law of Karma never spares anyone.

Note that the above is not an emotional hyperbole. Because such views if understood without depth may lead to blinded fanaticism. Someone may call Quran or Bible his mother and become defensive, other may consider Somalian piracy as its mother and become aggressive and so on. This would lead only to fanaticism.

On contrary, the above is a well-analyzed viewpoint emanating as a result of a reasoning process. And we are very clear that if Vedas indeed are source of anything illogical, we shall reject even the Vedas in same manner as one amputates his own limb if having gangrene.

The articles on the site would give you ample insights into this reasoning process. With regards to caste-system, we have already covered Vedic viewpoint in detail in several other articles. Readers are requested to specially review http://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/

However one popular issue still remains to be explained to complete the puzzle. This is with regards to one particular verse of Vedas appearing in Purush Sukta that is considered to be mother of birth-based casteism. This is perhaps the ONLY alleged reference to casteism in Vedas. All others allegations are too weak to be taken seriously even by detractors of Vedas. But this one, though equally flimsy, surprisingly became a super hit just like many stupid bollywood movies!

So it does merit some special attention.

About Purush Sukta

Purush Sukta is a hymn of 16 mantras from Vedas that appears in all 4 Vedas with slight variations. More PhDs have perhaps happened on Purush Sukta than on any other intellectual aspect of Vedas. The 11th mantra of the Sukta is the one that carries the blame of birth-based casteism.

To explain the mantra and conduct their PhDs, scholars have used a variety of approaches.

– Some simply translated it literally

– Some used their grammar prowess to justify casteism.

– Others (primarily those inspired by Arya Samaj) use the same prowess to reject it.

– Many other conclude that Purush Sukta is a later addition to Vedas because it is found in last Mandala of Rigveda. In fact they claim that the entire last Mandala of Rigveda is a later addition simply because they suspect so! So perhaps ghost of Shah Jahan lives in Red Fort because I suspect so!

(Its a different matter that they cannot explain why no version of Vedas without this 10th Mandala exists or how Purush Sukta is then found in other Vedas as well, not necessarily at end?)

(Sometimes we do feel that lack of scientific education has spoiled the entire world. Most people leading opinions in areas like history, literature, media etc are those who were more scared of science and mathematics than ghosts. Be it a Romila Thapar, or Wendy Doniger, or Max Muller or anyone else you may name. Thus destiny did not give them the opportunity to master scientific process of thinking and analytical faculty. Perhaps a serious study of Satyarth Prakash can help them compensate the terrible loss they have made!

We are of firm opinion that we need thoroughly scientific and analytical brains in these fields if we are to save our education system. An aptitude and reasoning test should be a MUST.)

About Casteism in Purush Sukta

Coming back to the Purush Sukta, there is this Mantra number 11 who is the culprit.

It literally says:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

Thus Shudras are lowly people born from his feet and Brahmins are greatest ones born from his mouth. Hence the mantra is alleged to insult Shudras and glorify Brahmins. Kshatriyas and Vaishyas are somewhere between.

– As we said earlier, you can find a plethora of literature that critically analyzes this mantra and provides a wide amount of perspectives. Many explain in greater detail how this mantra led to modern day caste system through a chain of events and thought process.

– Others try to prove that the mantra itself is interpolation because no other mantra in Vedas can be used to justify caste-system. As we observed earlier, we are always too eager to drive out the mother so as not to offend any allegation-maker!

– The more sincere defenders of Vedas attempt to provide alternative meanings of the various words used in the mantra to justify why it does not talk of birth-based casteism. They showcase evidence from other literature on the alternative usages of these words and attempt to defend the allegations.

To my mind, even this is a fruitless exercise beyond a point. Because Vedas are much more to do with analysis and introspection and very less to do with grammar and etymology. After all language was derived from Vedas and not vice-versa.

(Swami Dayanand thus laid great emphasis on analytical reasoning. In his proposed educational curriculum, only first few years of educations, when intellectual faculty is limited, were dedicated to mugging up the basics. And rest of it was primarily focused upon developing the analytical and introspective faculty. Unfortunately, modern Vedic scholars spent years in only grammar and neglect science and maths completely. Thus their analytical reasoning is limited and they are unable to derive new insights and researches from Vedas. Like other Arts subject, research in these fields primarily implies inconsequential literature survey (Which may soon become obsolete due to advent of search engine technology and digitization!))

Analysis of the casteist mantra of Purush Sukta

Coming back to the main line of discussion, let us now analyze it deeper but a bit logically.

Let us reproduce the meaning again for readability:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

1. How does the mantra imply that Brahmins are superior and Shudras are inferior? In fact if the mantra be literally true then Brahmins are the most disgusting and Shudras much purer.

Because vomit and sputum come from mouth. After perhaps urine and stool, they are the most detestable outputs of human body.

If a cherry falls on feet, you can still pick it up and eat it after washing. In fact most of the grains we eat may have touched ground or feet in some way or other. But if it gets into someone’s mouth and mixes with his saliva or sputum, you will not eat it for sure even after washing!

2. How can something be born from feet, thighs, mouth or arms? Even for a human being, the organs for reproduction are different. It is thus obvious that the mantra actually means something else. Foolish people take allegories literally.

By this logic, if a son is ‘Aankhon ka tara’ or Gem of the Eyes of his mother, it would imply that he resides in form of a star within an eye of his mother! Perhaps we would send to asylum those who take such similes literally.

3. The same modern ‘orthodox’ Hindu ideology also believes in rebirth of soul. In fact the very foundation of Vedic religion and all its offshoots is belief in rebirth of a soul that is unborn and undying. So the questions are:

– How could ‘unborn’ soul be born from something? And if it is true, then rest of the Vedas and Vedic literature is false.

– What happens after we die? Now it is an established belief that one can change from Brahmin to Shudra etc in next birth depending upon Karmas or actions. In fact this is the lollypop that bigoted ‘Upper Castes’ offer to so-called Shudras – serve us for this birth and then become Brahmin in next birth.

So if migration of caste is possible in next birth, we would like to understand the mechanism. Is it that after death, soul goes back to Purusha’s feet or mouth or arm or thighs, transfer via the blood circulation system to next organ and take birth again?

– And what about animals and insects and birds? From where are they born and how do they change into Brahmin etc?

Does it not all sound stupid if literal translation were to be taken seriously?

4. And in any case, the Vedic Supreme Lord is always formless and omnipresent. So how can He have face, arms, legs in first place? Refer Yajurveda 40.8 which states so in unambiguous terms.

5. Further even if we assume Supreme Lord to have shape and be able to reproduce from His various organs except the one that is used in humans for this purpose, how does that imply birth-based caste system? How can one conclude from this mantra that Brahmins will take birth in family of Brahmins alone and Shudras in family of Shudras? Brahmins or Shudras or whatever should take birth directly from body of Supreme. As per the literal meaning of mantra, if someone takes birth from womb of a mortal woman and NOT directly from God Himself, then he or she can be neither of the 4 Varnas. They are someone else!

6. What more, the mantra is in past tense. So at best one can conclude that Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras were born from various organs of a queerly formed Purusha at inception of creation. But none of them survive till today. The Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras of today are born hardly a few decades ago. But as per literal meaning of mantra, the birth has already happened. It does not say that God continues to run a factory for future production.

Further none of modern human beings actually came from anywhere except mother’s womb. So none of these modern claimants of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra are genuine claimants. They all are fake claimants.

7. Had someone taken birth from some woman’s mouth, we could have still have pretended to act superstitious and assert that ” Since the mother is Supreme God, the newborn is a Brahmin”. But still, the condition of birth from mouth, hands, legs or thighs ALONE constitutes a valid birth to qualify to be called either of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra. Rest of us – normal mortals – who originate from womb of our mothers and not from hands, legs, mouth etc are perhaps aliens from outer universe controlled by some other God as per literal meaning of the verse!

8. Since all births on planet earth happen ONLY from mothers, thus if we are to exist (which we all do!) then all women who give birth should be God themselves as per the mantra. And all men should be something other than either of 4 Varnas. We have no objection to people respecting all women as God. But at the same time, all men should be anything but humans since they did not come from mouth, arms or legs of any woman.

Very clearly, the mantra makes no sense if one were to take it literally.

What is pity that such a level of nonsense held sway over us for centuries, made us harassed paupers and yet we refuse to get rid of the crap!

The proper intuitive obvious meaning of the mantra

However if the mantra were to be analyzed in context of rest of the mantras and more intelligently, definitely there is a whole branch of knowledge pertaining to creation that can be researched from the Sukta.

One can review the Chapter on Creation (Srishtividyavishay) in Introduction of Vedas (Rigvedadibhashyabhumika) by Swami Dayanand for a more logical and detailed contextual analysis. You can get it from Download section of agniveer.com

However an intuitive understanding of the mantra is very simple even for a layman if we are willing to remove the glasses of prejudice and mindset. It means exactly what has been stated by all translators:

Brahmin was his mouth. Kshatriya were created from his arms. Vaishyas came from thighs and Shudras were born from his feet.

The only issue is that Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra do not refer to any souls or humans.

They refer to Varnas or properties that can be chosen.

And ‘He’ refers to not only the Supreme Lord as a whole but any self-enriching ecosystem – be it society, organization, individual or universe. After all everything is inspired by the Supreme Lord!

– So the mantra means that any ecosystem necessarily consists of 4 Varnas or properties or qualities or components – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. Brahmin means intellect and knowledge. Kshatriya means strength and valor. Vaishya means management, balance and stability. Shudra means rest of the qualities including ignorance.

– A smart system would utilize the 4 components in most optimized manner.

So a successful society would have intellectuals or Brahmins as head, Warriors or Kshatriyas as protecting hands, Vaishyas or business managers as stability providers or bone marrow producers (femur or thigh bone is the strongest bone of body) and rest of population would be utilized to provide support and basic infrastructure for the society.

A successful company would also organize itself accordingly.

The Supreme also creates the universe in a manner that these 4 components are balanced.

– As human beings, even we have all these 4 within us. But as they are Varnas (choice) we have option to increase or decrease their magnitude in various aspects of our lives. Note however that there is no binary choice of either having or rejecting a property. All the 4 must exist, only their proportions may vary.

– Our brain represents the Brahmin which should be nurtured to extent possible. We should have strong arms to protect ourselves. A very healthy body and good blood circulation to ensure our longevity and powerful feet to be dynamic.

– There is no human who does not have any of these components or properties within him. And there is no meaningful activity that can be performed in absence of all these 4. After all we are a complete being and not parts.

So when we are even studying Vedas – we use the Brahmin to understand the essence, Kshatriya to ensure we can study peacefully and not be disturbed by every other mosquito or nuisance, Vaishya to manage the procurement of Vedic text and lamp, and Shudra to actually sit down, switch on the lamp and perform all manual tasks necessary to successfully complete the study. If even one of the Varnas is ignored, the task may not be successfully and sustainably completed.

Buddhism focused only on Brahmin and hence perished in Afghantistan to attacks from West Asian looters. Wahabis got exclusively into warfare and made world a dangerous place. Hindus became too much of managers/ Vaishyas or Jugaadbaaz and lost their strength and dignity. Pakistan made Shudras out of its population by neglecting education and training and is nearing a failed state due to dominance of barbarians.

– In society, we, for sake of simplicity, call a person Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya or Shudra based on his predominant profession. However this is only a simplistic approximation.In reality, each of us has a Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra within us or else we would not be able to even survive for a while.

You can clearly see that with this very logical interpretation, the entire Varna system as well as the mantra becomes so comprehensible and easy to understand. Of course, with further introspection and analysis including study of language, we can derive even deeper meanings from this vastly intellectual mantra from one of the most wonderful Suktas of Vedas.

Summary

But the broad essence is very obvious and intuitive, if observed without any baggage of post-dated bias and preconceived notions.

– That the particular mantra is not to be taken literally but as an analogy.

– That these 4 properties are Varnas or choices. Which means that we have a choice to increase or decrease their magnitude in various aspects of our lives.

– That the 4 organs of body – head/face/mouth, arms, thighs and legs – represent the qualities of the 4 varnas. And if we consider the broader meaning of Uru used for Vaishya, it implies the entire central system – digestive system to thighs. In fact in Atharvaveda version of the mantra, the word Madhya meaning Center is used instead of Uru to clarify this better.

– Thus any ecosystem which provides appropriate roles & responsibilities to these 4 properties or people representing these properties is bound to be successful – be it an individual or society. Those who try to use feet for head or vice versa are bound to perish.

And that is exactly what happened through birth-based caste system. Even the most dumb witted were made ‘heads’ or ‘face’ of society merely because they were born in certain families that claimed to be Brahmins. The weaklings were warriors because of family tag. And the most brilliant were forced to be in servile positions simply because they were born in some other set of families. So we were destroyed!

However, we clearly see that by any stretch of sane imagination, one can no way interpret the Purush Sukta mantra to have any meaning even remotely associated with birth-based casteism. Vedas stand for complete meritocracy and equal opportunities for all human beings.

So all these PhDs trying to prove or disprove casteism in Purush Sukta mantra 11 are completely irrelevant. They only reemphasize the need for quality aptitude training and examination of those who indulge in such researches. And speak volumes about intellectual capabilities with regards to analysis and logic of those so-called scholars who conducted such researches in past.

As we have also analyzed in other parts of the article series, the whole hoax of Vedas having anything to do with racism or casteism or discrimination in the name of gender or birth is a figment of imagination of selected few. It is true that for quite a significant period in history, such perverted ideology held sway over the sub-continent causing utter loss to world and country. However events do not justify themselves merely by their happenings. Just because something stupid happened in the era of Ashoka or even Ramayan and Mahabharat does not make that justifiable.

(There is a misplaced notion that ancient India was Vedic and now we are non-Vedic. Or that western world is anti-Vedic and we are more Vedic. All these notions emanate from shallow thinking. Vedas represent the best practices manual and fundamental laws of nature and living. There was never a time when all best practices of Vedas were implemented with 100% perfection and there was never a time when a society completely rejected Vedas. All this varies from time to time in different aspects of life. We benefit when we adopt Vedic wisdom in certain aspects of our lives and face miseries when we refuse to do so in some other aspects. Thus we are far more Vedic in certain aspects compared to Ramayan and Mahabharat era. In certain aspects we lag behind. Similarly, western world is far far more Vedic in certain aspects of life like respect for all humans, while we are ahead in some other aspects like family values. This is a multivariate highly non-linear and dynamic function. But Vedas provide us way to attempt to maximize the value of the function in any given point in time.)

So citing examples from history or present era to claim something to be Vedic or anti Vedic is as foolish as rejecting Vedas. We do not reject the concept of circle in Mathematics simply because a perfect circle cannot be drawn in reality!

Thus all we need to do is to seek opportunities for improvements in true spirit of Vedas. That is what ideals are meant for.

Now this caste system has been an anti-Vedic nuisance troubling us for ages. It has been a prime cause for all other troubles we faced and continue to face for last thousands of year. However today is the most golden opportunity to destroy its very roots and become deserving of greater bliss.

The modern era social patterns make it totally outdated to classify a person simplistically into any one of the 4 Varnas. It is time we adopt a more evolved model – where each human has all the 4 Varnas whose proportion vary in different aspects of life at different times in different situations.

And the foundation as well as inspiration for it should rightly come from our roots – the Vedas themselves. Let us together destroy the myth of casteism in Vedas and take it further to destroy all traces of birth-based casteism from our society as guided by Purush Sukta.

We conclude with our interpretation of Purush Sukta mantra 11 in nation’s perspective, as elaborated above:

May only the intellectuals be allowed to become face and heads of our nation. May only the strong, powerful and possessors of noble character be the strong hands that protect and bring us glory through efforts. May the smart trained managers guide our entire processes and ensure a vibrant healthy effective control mechanism. And may we utilize the rest of us to provide foundation and service to keep the system dynamic and powerful.

May we never allow non-intellectual minds to become heads, weaklings to become hands, untrained incompetents to manage the central control system and waste talented resources in doing less productive activities. Let us never allow mismatch of talents and job role on frivolous reasons like birth, family, favoritism, corruption etc. Let no profession – material or spiritual – become fiefdoms of selected few on the basis of any artificial barrier like caste or gender. And if there be any such existing barriers, let us destroy them completely in order to embrace the Purush Sukta!

Casteism is the father of all corruption and let us work for its total annihilation, in theory and practice.

Disclaimer: We believe in "Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam" (entire humanity is my own family). "Love all, hate none" is one of our slogans. Striving for world peace is one of our objectives. For us, entire humanity is one single family without any artificial discrimination on basis of caste, gender, region and religion. By Quran and Hadiths, we do not refer to their original meanings. We only refer to interpretations made by fanatics and terrorists to justify their kill and rape. We highly respect the original Quran, Hadiths and their creators. We also respect Muslim heroes like APJ Abdul Kalam who are our role models. Our fight is against those who misinterpret them and malign Islam by associating it with terrorism. For example, Mughals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and every other person who justifies sex-slavery, rape of daughter-in-law and other heinous acts. Please read Full Disclaimer.

I am founder of Agniveer. Pursuing Karma Yog.
I am an alumnus of IIT-IIM and hence try to find my humble ways to repay for the most wonderful educational experience that my nation gifted me with. I am also on Quora.

hindu scripture says one born to brahmin mother by sudra father is chandal and budha scripture says one expects respect from others but does’t respect others is chandal . for misraji- there r 5 mohlas in a village each can have representative who subsequently elect head representative for smooth running of administration where is reservation it is representation of all , it has to remain as america alone though may be most powerful/intelligent can’t rule the world so clear ur mind .

Hindu (body) four community: brahmin (head) kshatriya (arm) vaishya (belly) shudra (feet) All these four community called as hindu. We all are parts of one body. Without each part our body is not complete. If we lost one part of our body then we become handicap. The human body is the entire structure of a human being. Human Body is considered so loving that God even wants to have it. Spiritual Yogis have found that after going through the 84 millions species this souls get the most dignified human body. So it is the last step to explore the God or to get the view of almighty father god. We know that the soul never dies it takes birth again and again just like as we take new clothes to wear the soul as it takes new body and it is an infinite process. But the body what we get in next birth depend on our karma that thas been cited in Gita by Lord Krishna to Arjuna. We all here to perform our duties. Our action makes our destiny and nothing else. The result is in the hand of supreme power. Karma is the seed of plant and if the seed is genuine it must be fruitful.

All stupid people living in India that’s why this country cant be develop anymore as the other countries are well developed. Bcoz indian people live in caste-ism and egoist by nature especially who belong to upper class which is created by themselves not created by God.God only created human being..He didnt put any human in high and low category..This cheap things only created by some bastard itself who live in India..and they be proud by called themselves hindu..I am also hindu but i wanna spit on that every person who proudly said they are hindu but their thinking is so narrow minded..now its depend on human what they want to become Devil or Angel..Nobody is lower and higher by caste or religion..they become high and low by their behavior..Reservation should be stop itself when you all leave this stupid casteism..Say no caste and no community..All are hindu who live in hindustaan understood idiot people..

Whenever someone’s ask you about your caste then your answer should be to them is: I am a Brahmin in knowledge I am kshatriya in valor I am vaishya in business I m shudra in service In the end I am just sanatam dharmi hindu and nothing else..Then say you proud to be a hindu..

god is one without secound. god is ajar/amar. whosoever is born or dies is not god. what to say of krishn, ram, parsuram even brahma, vishnu n shiv r not god whose avtars various persons r supposed to be.. everybody is aware that in last of tretayug prsuram 6th avtar(fought with santanu f/o bhisham for protection of brahmans) rebuked ram 7th avtar born to protect brahmans n dharam (in sita swayambar on breaking shiv dhnush) krishan 8th avtar(born to dharam n brahman) came running to lengthen cheer of dropati grand daughter-inlaw of bhisham). if parsuram, ram, krishan etc r born to protect dharam who was there before their birth n after their death. pious scriptures state- u r brahman. i am brahman. he is brahman. knowledge is brahman. every being is self/soul/ atman/ brahman ansh of parmatma parambrahman. satyakama brahman was son of prostitute. regarding srishti n god read geeta/devi bhagwat puran/kabir explaining akshar purush ek ped hai niranjan vaki dar, tinno deva shakha hai pat roop sansar. god parama akshar purush the roots, ped -tana is akshar purush, dar/ dala is niranjan -kshar purush-kail/kal (time)/ sadashiv whose sons tridevas – brahma,vishnu n shiv r branches while leaves v all protected n fed by same mighty one god. tridevas age is described -when 7 brahma die one vishnu dies,7vishu die one shiv dies, 7shiv die one sadashiv dies ie niranjan/ kshar purush/kail/kal is brother as well husband of prakarti/durga as created by god n tridevas by mixing at-varanasi-kanshi-ramya-sudarsana-barahmavardha-surandhana-mahasmasana-anandakanana-avimukta founded by shiv. sadashiv keeps himself hiding never seen by any except durga who has been threatened not to disclose about him. however he apears in form of his sons as durga in form of savitri, laxmi n parvati. once sadashiv apeared in form of pillar when brahma n vishnu fought each showing superiorty over the other shankar too apeared later on. raj sat tam gun jal is by tridevas n their mother n father

[…] have already written in length on how this foolish innovation is against the very tenets of Vedas – the source-book of Hinduism. I have also discussed how this has been the prime culprit for our slavery and all atrocities we […]

The Purusha Sukta was never meant to validate the caste system. Purusha was a hardened volcanic column at the north pole of Mars (Indra), which orbited the Earth 99 or 100 times above Mt. Kailas between 3700 and 700 BC.. The verse was merely meant as a description of the colors, or shades of the column, some 2000 km high, in terms of the skin colors of the Indian castes. The top of this column was brightest or lightest like the Brahmin below that it was less light as the kshatria etc.. I know that for a century Indic scholars studied the Purusha Sukta in an effort reveal the origin of the castes, but they were wrong and it is a great shame to declare that the Rg Veda validates the caste system.

In the Gita it is mentioned that as combination of Guna and Karma the four varnas were created. And one of the critics, Ambedkar had argued Gita was created to harmonise the many parts of Vedas and Upanishads which could otherwise be not harmonised. and that how could 4 varnas be created fronm 3 Gunas[sattva,rajas and Tamas] ?

It doenst matter if ambedkar was anti-hindu or not, we can argue on his work only on merit. In this case the question ambedkar asks is how can three gunas [sattva,rajas,tamas] give rise to four varnanas as explained in the Gita,.. “chaturvarnaya maya srushtya” Chapter 4, verse 13.

what do you mean by gunas? and in that verse Krishna clearly says varna is based on quality and activities not by birth as ambedkar believed I think by guna the shudra and vaisya are similar but vaisya are little higher

@Krishna Ambedkar wrongly assumed that it was a one to one correlation between Gunas and Varnas and it is not. There is a book Krishna I would recommend that is excellent primer. “Hindu Mind: Fundamentals of Hindu Religion and Philosophy for All Ages” by Bansi Pandit. You can buy it online. Google it. He provides an excellent table with the four Varnas on rows and the 3 Gunas on the columns (pages 62-65). Put is simply, the combination of the Gunas results in a particular Varna. It is this: Intellectuals, educators, and creative thinkers (aka Brahmin professions) have high Sattva, low Rajas, and low Tamas. Politicians and administrators (Kshatriya professions) have medium to high Sattva, high Raja, low to medium Tamas. Businessmen, employers, and skilled labor (Vaishya professions) have medium Sattva, high Raja, and medium Tamas. Lastly non-skilled labor (Shudra professions) has low Sattva, medium Rajas, and high Tamas.

He goes on to describe the Gunas in more detail. Consider buying the book. It is excellent.

I am impressed with the spirit of the blog by Agniveer. I have myself writen several articles on caste problem and its relation in Hinduism. It is sad that the so called civilised society is a dishonest selfish society which thrives on the weak. It is here that I call it inhuman and ask – Human = Who Man?

Another interesting point about Varna. Varna is a Sanskrit word which means colour, not the caste or jaati. The very fact that Varna means colour is that it indicates the quality aphorismically. Which again will show its potentials on quality based faculty, instead of birth based discrimination. Unfortunately it has hardly attracted attention.

I read the most of it as being a long post. I however agree on the point that Caste is not a Vedic sanction by birth as far as my information goes. I was aware of the fact that four Varnas are equated to the four parts of the body as stated above. But the interpretation in my mind is slightly different. All four parts in a body e.g. head, arms, body/thighs, and legs are essential parts required to fulfil a designated function. In the same way as mouth and anus are equally essential. It will be naive, nay stupid to humiliate anus by saying that it deals with dirty faeces, hence it must be annihilated. The body cannot do without it. Hence the society need a doctor, engineer, teacher, preacher, tailor, washerman, haircutter, etc and they all have to come from the society itself. Thus the meritocratic system on Varna was recommended and quite rightly engineered. It worked well all over the globe.

The brouhaha today about caste in Hindus is is based on two major factors. Hindus have been advocating its abolition in right or wrong ways but the desire has been there and very intense indeed. The colonial subjugation and the votebank gimicks has kept it alive. Colonial subjugation led to intense conversions by the Abrahamic religionists both by force as well as by peaceful methods of luring into their fold – predatory proselytisation as the Hindu American Foundation calls it, very rightly. This malicious blame gams against Hinduism must be exposed and condemned at every Global fora boldly with no excuse or fear. Only then can one expect its mitigation.

Namaste Agniveer and community. If position in the society is not a birth right how come most of the kings of aaryavarta from before Dasaratha to Rama and also Bharata to the Pandavas and the Yadavas , barring few exceptions were sons of a king rather than the best kshatriya in the Kingdom. IF it was the son was the best suitable how was it decided very few times it has been mentioned.

Lord Vishnu’s foot is considered to be the MOOOOOOST HOLY AND PURE thing in the entire world (nothing else anywhere is purer or holier than Lord Vishnu’s shri-charan). How can something created out of it be impure or bad?

Namakar to all my hindu brothers/sisters,,I think this is not caste system this is the duty of the man,vedas wants us to explain that a society or a country will run if these four duties are performed properly,but i think these things are imposed by brahmin just to escape from hard work,But as per hinduism we must reform,,even today many of us inspite of caste and creed serving in army,,many of us are doing bussiness and many of us are working as peons,cleaners,,I think these are only duties,,hope all our hindu brothers should evolve from this,,but the worst is our corrupt government will never let us evolve for there personal gains hope we win with the help of agniveer,,agniveer please keep your hard,I am working in afghanistan,i am living with muslims here,i dont know about zakir naik,,but because of him people started disrespecting hinduism,he is a real threat,,his videos are shown everyday here in many tv channels,and people are taking him as an example and telling me to convert,,but thanks to bhagwan he showed light in the darkness i did research on my sanatana dharma hinduism,We have to wake all our hindu brothers because western media and seculars,and islamic people wants to destroy us by islamization and christianization,,so please protect us mainly the women/girls by showing them the path,,I am with u,i will visit personally when i will come to delhi,,Dhanyawad

We as humble foot soldiers are spreading the faith to our brothers and sisters, have spirit, have courage, have humbleness, have Karma Yoga as a guide, Lord Krishna: Again in the Bhagawad Gita, sloka 29, Chapter 9, Lord Krishna says,

“I look upon all creatures equally; none are less dear to me and none more dear. But those who worship me with love live in me, and I come to life in them.”

you have explained meaning of 11th slok of purushsukta only. but other sloks from purushsukta describe the same creation of different things from yatpurusha’s organs. please give meaning of other slokas also in present context. otherwise the allegation of 11th slok will remain as it is

you have explained only 11 th slok of purushsukta but all other sloks are describing that various oragns of yatpurusha from which different things were created please give meaning of other slokas with present context

Dear Agniveer, Keep up the good work. Recently, I have come across an interview of Dr. Subrahmanian Swamy. Where he explains the caste system and its rise in Bhatrat(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHwzEnFoRmM). I believe the 11th sloka of Purusha sukta makes sense while explaining this logic.He(Dr. Swamy) explains that the entire caste system arose as a result of a conversation of two maharshis( I don’t remember their names), who were planning on creating an unbiased and balanced society. According to them the society demands 4 major services:-

According to them no one can have a control of the other 3 as it may lead to a catastrophe. According to them:- One who can educate others is a “brahmin”. (Now it makes sense that he is born from the mouth of brahma) One who defends the society is “Kshatriya”. No wonder arms of brahma are a right place for a Kshatriya One who takes care of financial details is a “vaishya”. It is known that in olden days bhatathvanshis used to tie a wallet to their thighs(generally right thigh). Hence a vaishya is born from thigh of Brahma. One who works hard to build/construct the society is a “Shudra”. Hands and legs are equally important for any construction/maintenance work as arms are “occupied” by kshatriyas, legs/feet symbolize the Shudras.

This looks to me as a good logical and philosophical explanation of the sloka. I am sure that you would agree that this classification holds good even today and any government which controls these categories isolated from each other is a good government.

Finally, for those who still say that vedas support caste system, I have to say that Lord shiva lives in a burial ground, eats flesh. Maharshi valmiki born to a hunter turned into a brahmin. Maharshi Viswamitra was born to a king. Dronacharya, kripacharya, Ashwatthama though a brahmin, turned to a kshatriya in kurukshetra.

well said dear. Similarly Vivekanand has explained it in “Rebuild India”. Mind represents Brahman, Arms the kshatriya, Abdomen the Vaishya and legs the Shudra. He further explains that in reality all the four varnas exist in every human being. When he learns/teaches or uses his brains, he is brahman. When he defends himself against any danger/atrocities, he is Kshatriya. When he earns for himself or family and engage in business/profession, he is Vaishya and he is shudra when he uses his legs for movement. Thus everyone of us is composed of all the four Varnas. In some, one is dominant and in others the other varna.

Once Vivekand also said that It is unfortunate that most of Indiand don’t understand the depth of our culture and exhibit non-culture/non-religion in day today life in the name of culture/religion.

Already the title of the article is non-sensical. It is as if you would proclaim that there is a discrimination between apples and mangos only because they have been born differently.

Castes are natural. There is even a saying in English: Birds of the same feather flock together.

Caste is not harmful. That is what makes a society: caste. Mango is one caste. Apple is one caste. Banana is one caste.

The blaming of the Castes serves to many politicians as a cover for their own incapabilities to solve social problems.

All the talk of “equality” is childish. Such a thing does not exist. Even in the USA – the champion of equality – it does not exist. Well, the americans do not want to be a shudra, so they do better jobs, and let the mexicans do the “lower jobs”. Of course, someone has to do them. But then, the Mexicans, because they illegally crossed the border, they sink even to the level of untouchibility. No insurance, no solidarity, anytime ready to be deported – yes, a caste system based on greed. The vedic system is based on birth.

We want to eliminate all the different caste. Who can make and unmake? Nobody can make and unmake caste system. They are a natural phenomenon. The caste system is a natural phenomenon. People are different. The soul of all the people is the same. So something is different. Something is the same.

Caste system is most systematic, it’s a system. It’s a system of society. Without caste there will be a hodgepodge. Nobody would know who is what. Caste system is everywhere. It’s a natural phenomenon. It’s a natural existence. It’s a natural thing.

Those who do not know, they can say anything. Like a mad man, they can say anything. But what does it mean to any sensible man?

Caste system – Eyes, ears, nose, tongue, touch, each is a caste by itself. And all the caste make a body, make a man, make a society, make a country.

Those who want to disrupt the harmony, they come with all these slogans and disrupt the harmony, make the people confuse and all that. But…

The point of the article and many of us posters here is that birth-based division into castes is meaningless. If a White American says he will not pick fruits because he is “white” and he will sit all day in the executive room in AC, while a “Brown” Mexican should alone pick fruits because he is “brown”, THAT is what this article is against. Sure, division of labour is a good idea, but no one can say that he is of “high” birth and hence will not do certain work because of caste, blood lineaage or skin colour. Thats the point.

@ mumbai, therd are more than 100 temples in my city and no dalit pujari i have seen. No single in whole city? No percentage even in points, flat zero. I dont want to become pandit or brahman, i want to show you true religion. Go and make dalit to brahman, they want to become brahman. I havnt seen all temples but i know what is the case. Have u seen all the temples??

LOL Faizi Miyan you are accusing hindus of caste system. WHEN AMBEDKAR HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT MUSLIM CASTE SYSTEM IS WORSE THAN HINDU CASTE SYSTEM. DALIT EQUIVALENT OF MUSLIM IS ARZAL MUSLIMS WHO ARE ALSO CALLED “DALIT MUSLIMS”. ASHRAFIS ARE HIGHER CASTE MUSLIMS. ARZAL MUSLIMS CONDITION ARE MORE PATHETIC THAN OTHER DALITS.

Blessed is He in whose hand is dominion, and He is over all things competent – [He] who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed – and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving – [And] who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return [your] vision [to the sky]; do you see any breaks? Then return [your] vision twice again. [Your] vision will return to you humbled while it is fatigued And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze And for those who disbelieved in their Lord is the punishment of Hell, and wretched is the destination. When they are thrown into it, they hear from it a [dreadful] inhaling while it boils up It almost bursts with rage. Every time a company is thrown into it, its keepers ask them, “Did there not come to you a warner?” They will say,” Yes, a warner had come to us, but we denied and said, ‘ Allah has not sent down anything. You are not but in great error.’ ” And they will say, “If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze.” surah mulk surah no 67 verse 1-12

haha, kal bhairav u have left because u urself said that i am searching a good english translation of veda??? You even not read all veda thoroughly and calling me kid? Ok uncle one sdc uncle was comenting on my comment that in one yoni we bribe Allah will give us another yoni then we cheat then Allah will give us another yoni and keep on changing yoni until we attain moksha. If according to u God wants u to attain moksha what ever u r doing maximum punishment is yoni change then y he needs to send u again and again, can he not give u moksha in one yoni only, who can ask Him? Kal uncle when i asked you that tel me question then u are saying i have left entertaining this kid, truth seker hs given u a website where u can read veda english translation, go and read first then tel me ok. Truth [email protected] i hav told u what is the islamic faith regarding wahi, i dont want to talk u, i have seen ur way of talking, i hav already told u that u r not worthy to talk. So bye

@faizi hA………ha…ha………you. FOOL, even after reading Kuran you are bowing head before stone Kaba. Even after reading Kuran you are reciting human name in Allah prayer. Even after reading Kuran you believe Allah was sitting idol on his throne before this universe creation. Even after reading Kuran Muslim are killing their fellow brothers Ahamadiya & shiya etc in Pakistan, Irak, Afganistan etc. Even after reading of boys are joining terrorist group. Even after reading of Kuran muslim following rituals and superstitions like kissing the black stone & go around Kaba. Even after reading Kuran Muslim worshiping graves.

truth seker brother i am talking to kal, and regarding ur question i am nt agree wid u. Quranic concept is Allah talked to Moses on this world on toor mountain nd gave him torah written on slates . Read quran for detail, just search on quran.com. And also Allah give quran to hazrat muhammad in 23 year period through jibrael alaihissalam(an angel). It is caled wahi(revelation). There are many ways of wahi, Allah can just wahi to any mesangers heart. For other guidance Allah time to time wahi many orders to prophet through angel or directly to prophet heart. Regarding rishis i dnt knw what is ur method to identify that what he is teling u (that it is from God) is right or wrong.

@faizi Why what u find illogical in my comment. Please counter me by one by one like this. Q Is Allah depend on angles or speaking to impart knowledge? _____-No, Allah never depends on them____ Faizi write your argument :- _________-Allah is Almighty i.e., So He needs no assistance to do universal deeds. In human body alive soul resides. And soul is dependent, soul requires mouth to speak, eye to see, hand to write etc., etc. but not Allah. So from His power Allah originates the knowledge of Vedas in the rishis(great souls) without writing, or speaking etc.________

also kal g, no new quran is coming, read quran, every order in quran is helpful for human in this world nd hereafter. Because only creator know what is good for his creation. So regarding ur questiòn if we believe that it is from creator(there are so many ways to prove that quran is from Allah) then their is no need to analyse every order on logic. If it has been ordered that kil child born on saturday then yes every believer wil obey it(but for ur kind information there is no such order in quran, quran is from Allah, he is merciful). Tel me, do u follow veda after analysing it on logic nd science. Most important point is u and your friends hvnt read all veda once with translation, where is the time to analyse veda. I havent met any person( who is not pujari) and completely read any buk except geeta. There is only readable buk in hindus that is geeta.I always request hindus please read ur buks analyse them and read sanskrit. As u claim that vedas are most ancient buk then y peoples were believing in casteism by birth only (and stil believing),if ther was no casteism. Were they not reading veda or not analysing on logic until u came?

Even arabi peoples say others ajami which means gunga(dumb) who cant not speak arabi. There are four pronunciation of z in arabi. Isa alaihissalam has been given miracle in medicine field because that was the field which was on top that time and top doctors and discoveries wer coming. At prophet Muhammad s.a.w. time poetry and literature was on top so quran has been given. The peoples who call themselves arabi & others ajami even they don’t say that there are mistakes in quran what they say it is MAGIC.

@Faizi/ Other scholar Q Is Allah depend on angles or speaking to impart knowledge? Ans. No, Allah never depends on them. Veda is emanated directly from Allah and is originated in the heart of four rishis. Allah is Almighty i.e., So He needs no assistance to do universal deeds. In human body alive soul resides. And soul is dependent, soul requires mouth to speak, eye to see, hand to write etc., etc. but not Allah. So from His power Allah originates the knowledge of Vedas in the rishis(great souls) without writing, or speaking etc. faizi brother, Do you Agree?

Agniveer Mahoday, what you’ve written about Gandhi, well, I fully concur with it!! He was a fake saint and a “duratma”, not a “mahatama”. In my opinion, Sardar Patel deserves to be the true father of the nation, as he was one who forged modern India. Here are a few links substantiating the true character of the racist Gandhi:-

And, here is my personal Youtube video on why Sardar Patel wanted the Partition so badly (remember, the only “allegation” on Sardar Sahib ever was that he was so desperate for getting the Parition done, and thus was chiefly responsible for the immense bloodshed that ensued). Well, all those arse-lickers of the Nehru-Gandhi feudal dynasty out there, hear this piece from a well-known Pakistani journalist Aftab Iqbal and judge for yourself the true caliber of the premier statesman of mother India and one of her most ardently faithful children:-

Agniveer Mahoday, I’ve been reading all comments by this “faizi” (real name farzi) as well as your team’s counter replies and have been noticing that while on one hand, he avoids answering even the most basic questions(while Agniveer panthis adeptly clear all of his meandering taqqiya), on the other hand he accuses Agniveer and co. of lies and hate and inability to answer his questions. Oh well, I guess you’ve dealt with even more advanced taqqiya than this farzi character called “faizi”. Also, great article!

Manu eldest son [Priyavrata] became king, a Kshatriya. Out of his ten sons seven became kings while three became Brahman. Their names were Mahavira, Kavi and Savana. (Ref bhagwat puran chap.5) Kavash Ailush was born to a Sudra and attained the varna of a Rishi. He became mantra-drashta to numerous Vedic mantras in Rig-Veda 10th Mandal. Jabala’s son [Satyakama] born from unknown father became Rishi by his qualities. Matanga became a Rishi after his birth in low Varna. Fa Xian, a Buddhist pilgrim from China, visited India around 400 AD. “Only the lot of the Chandals he found unenviable; outcastes by reason of their degrading work as disposers of dead, they were universally shunned… But no other section of the population were notably disadvantaged, no other caste distinctions attracted comment from the Chinese pilgrim, and no oppressive caste ‘system’ drew forth his surprised censure.”. In this period kings of Sudra and Brahmin origin were as common as those of Kshatriya Varna (Hinduism) and caste system was not wholly prohibitive and repressive. However, British policies of divide and rule as well as enumeration of the population into rigid categories during the 10 year census contributed towards the hardening of caste identities. The government is carrying out caste census for 2011.[36] It will help in verifying the claims and counterclaims by various sections of the society about their actual numbers. It would also help the government to re-examine and even undo some of the policies which were formed in haste like Mandal commission and bring more objectivity to the policies with contemporary realities. Others fear that, given the huge constitutional incentives in the form of educational and job reservations, as well as non-existence of any social stigma at all associated with belonging to a backward caste, a large number of people will falsely declare themselves to be from a backward caste, to avail of the benefits. This will not only result in a marked inflation of the backward castes numbers, but…

@ Faiz: Why did Allah Create us????…. What was his motif behind creating Souls, Universe, Heaven and Hell???… What was Allah doing before he created Heaven, Hell, Universe, Angels and Souls??… one thing is for sure that Allah existed before Heaven, Hell, Universe, Angels and Souls.. Right??… now please tell me What was he doing before he created all this?? And after Judement Day.. that is .. after he has put all the Souls in Heaven and Hell according to their beliefs… what will he do next as he has nothing new to do???… Please explain from Quran and Hadiths (Sahih Galat whatever!)

go and read first 39 verses of surah baqarah surah number 2. u just put in google surah baqrah 1-39 and answer is their, quran is clear cut not like vedas. have you read all the vedas. i have asked mr. kal and truth seeker they dont replied..

@ faizi.. Namaste Brother.. I started reading Surah Baqrah as you said.. but I came across a stumbling block in the very first Verse… it says “Alif lam Meem” … please brother tell me.. what does it mean.. so that i can move on to the Next verse

Agniveer Faizi & Shabeer are kaffir in disguise of Momins. If they really would have read Kuran, they must have answer of these Questions. They are here misguiding the momins. Here is list of very easy questions related of pious Kuran Shariff:-http://agniveer.com/5327/vedas-hatred-2/#comment-36548

@ Faizi. Namaste Brother Faizi…Where are you Brother??? why are you not answering my Question???? you asked me to read chapter 2 from Quran, Surah Al-Baqarah from Verse 1 to 39… but I am not able to understand what the very first verse means.. Please tell what does it mean.. 1st verse only says Alif, laam, meem, ie ALM now what is that??? it also says that Nobody except Allah knows its meaning… if that is the case what was the need to reveal the Ayaah to Human beings?? Brother Faizi.. plz answer my question so that i Can move on to Verse No. 2.. because reading Quran without understanding is Shirk is it not??

kal, if any person belive in day of judgment nd hel paradise then he becom a gud human nd change of yoni faith always make him bad human. If i hv chance in next yoni to attain moksha then i wil do whatever i like, i’l cheat, bribe nd i’l enjoy anyway. U cn believe in such things which make a pesrson bad, u cn believe ajeebo ghareeb veda, ful of myths. But cnt believe in true religion. If it is nt true stil it is making u a gud person. Say “ashhadu al lailaha ilallaha wa ash hadu anna mohammudar rasullulah” nd enter the society of peace of both life.

yes in one yoni u bribe, other u cheat, in other u rape, in oyher u become hitler then moksha but can u imagine what will happen to this world? u will make make it hell, like u can see comments on dr. zakir naik post. your yoni believing person start abusing to prophets to Allah and so on?

no you mr. faizi… listen.. in one birth you bribe.. you go far from moksha… in other birth you rape… you go still farer from moksha… then god will obviously punish you in a way maybe giving a physical impairment that the person is not able to become hitler in next birth .. hence like this god takes care that earth does not become hell! if someone still does more bad deeds he would put him in animal yoni . hence further limiting his capabilities to do any bad to someone!

are rich and prosperous humans are increasing?? no but only poverty stricken, backward, resource less , sick humans are increasing…

say up healthy people increasing or decreasing? say up diseases increasing or decreasing? say up life span increasing or decreasing? say up tensions increasing or decreasing? say up problems in human life increasing or decreasing?

lol!! now say … ! dear mr faizi ,there are very less happy souls on earth why? because sin is increasing! it is infact the proof of past life theory!

kal bhairav; u dont understand so simple thing that if quran is protested then u r saying y bibble is not protected. u chew ur fingr but quran is protected because protection is from ALLAH. u intellegent arya samaji is their any person here who memorized whole veda. u talk veda veda. kal, truth, have u memorized all four veda. i know u even can nt read whole veda wid translation only once, any body try to read his brain start aching what a contradictory book that is. what they r trying to say? from veda u can prove pandit shudra by birth, from same veda pandit shudra by karma,’lol’in quran so simple verses AYATUN MOHKAMATUN- u dont read, ayat related to karm, very simple clear cut. concept of jannat dozakh clear cut. but u want confusion for u in QURAN ALLAH SAID”And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.(2:13-14)”. IF U READ quran in arabi then u will know what the standard nd beauty of quran is. heart filled with joy which cant be explained by words on can be feel. Hope ALLAH give u hidayat to feel that joy in ur heart.

Please solve that challenge and if you cannot convert to a Mormon Christian. Game? (2)There are so many contradictions in the Quran. See the link I posted before. Be careful about visiting http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRationalizer and watching his videos. He is an ex-Muslim and after watching his videos many Muslims have converted OUT of Islam. (3)Adam/Eve story is bogus. So, Judaism/Xity/Islam all crumble down. Islam crucially depends on Adam/Eve story being true. So, to be a Muslim, YOU HAVE to hope against hope that science doesnt crack the Adam/Eve story. (4)If the Quran said it is ok to kill children born on Saturday, would you do it or would you TEST it with outside logic/rationality to see if what it says make sense?

truth sicker or any body i m unable to find veda translation in english or hindi by aryasamaji on web, u can find many translation of quran on web on all big lang. u go first translate nd add it on web or tell me site

Now that you are shouting so much on Vedas being bad and Quran being best and then demanding translations, I challenge you to provide a sensible English translation of Quran. You claim that internet has many translations on Quran. Tell me which one is the correct one and not a bogus translation. Get me a statement from some Islamic authority that recommends a particular translation in English and then we can debate ahead.

First do that and then talk about Vedas. Because Vedas do not demand blind belief in unseen. On contrary it recommends that even if you find a truth illogical because of your bird brain, better reject that truth and focus on increasing the neural connections within your bird brain so that it becomes a bigger bird brain. This is difficult to understand for minds that only mug up without analysis.

But better give reference to an authoritative English translation of Quran first.

Also what are your views on translations of Pickthall, Dawood and tafseer of Jalalyn or Sahih Bukhari/ Muslim of Muhsin Khan as found on internet in all leading Islamic sites? Are they bogus. If yes, instead of wasting time here, raise a movement against banning of these texts. If no, let us debate based on these texts.

@faizi ________kun faya koon- Allah say be as it is nd it is done___________ To whome Allah said this? If all doer is Allah to whom Allah is addressing here & can without addressing Kun Faya Koon, Allah can do? Why Allah need to speak. Is he talking with himself? _____As far as angles r concern Allah dnt need them but is way how He is taking work____ Who is entitled to be angles? What are good deed angles had done that Allah made them angles. ______Like a king has workers it dsnt mean king cant do that work_______ Wordily king need to speak to do something. But king of all God never need to speak anything & things just happened as he/she do wish. ( I say roughly here).

truth sickerrrr, u r not trying to understand, please read quran first. Allah is saying to that thing that be as it is, like ther was no pen but Allah saying to that pen be as it is nd ther is pen. hope u (DONT)understand.

I love how Muslims start spouting nonsense about formlessness of Allah. When Advaita talks about Nirguna Brahman via “Neti-Neti” it is a description of pure consciousness. Brahman doesnt have any unfulfilled wish that it needs to test some poor souls. It just is. Dvaita talks of a personal Brahman which creates the world using Prakriti for souls to attain moksha.

Muslim philosophy [that is an oxymoron] simply requires you to believe Allah can just create the universe out of nothing. If you Momins can believe that why dont you believe that Allah can kill himself? Muslims usually say this question is not allowed, but apparently they arent bothered by an Allah that can create things out of thin air! Not only do you have to believe this, you have to believe Allah needed 7 (or is it 8? depends on how you translate the Arabic word “Thumma” 🙂 ) days to create the universe…You further have to believe Adam and Eve were created out of dust and so on and so forth. You need to believe ALL this LITERALLY to be a Muslim. Ali Sina did a video about how the big bang and creationism as per Bible/Quran are mutually contradictory. Muslims can never learn 🙁

kal u cant never learn because u dont want to learn. dr. israr said that u cant prove GOd by logic, for every logic there is an answer nd u will always woder for truth. quran say”This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah Who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them,”(2;2-3) u have to belive in Allah in unseen IN jannat dozakh, than u can be benifited by quran. ther is evey solution but first u have to belive. quran is Allah words, there are several points that i can prove that quran is Allah word, one is quran is protected, there are millions of hafiz(who pmemorized whole quran by heart). according to aryasamaj u have go to another yoni nd islam is giving u all the solution of life then what is the problem in believing in unseen. i am a student of science whenever study deeply any subject my faith increases on Allah. u just read ur hormonal system, ur eyes, u just read water cycle, u’ill say there is creator. i can give u heap of contradictions in veda, u just tell me approved translation link of veda on web. ther is no contradiction in quran

Watch the following video and see how you guys laughably try to prove the “truth” in the Quran.

I personally am myself trying to get a good English commentary the Vedas. I will definitely let you know when my search is satisfactory. But why do you want to prove the contradictions in the Vedas? Is it that there are contradictions in Quran so you will be more happy if you are able to “pull” the Vedas down?

You are a student of science and you say “Dr. israr said that u cant prove GOd by logic”. So, you being a student of science would like to follow something that is bereft of logic. Now, this is really paradoxical because science itself stands on logic.

I am still to grasp the purport of your question. A phenomenon has to be observed, documented, experimented on, and then conclusions drawn. If in case you are referring to the behavior of matter under different conditions or of different matter reacting differently under the same set of conditions, so, what is it that you are trying to say?

Logic is the ability to think through a problem systematically. Science was born of logic.

truth sicker, U cn never undrstand, u read whole quran u cn find every answer. Allah said Allah dnt need anyone to do anything, kun faya koon- Allah say be as it is nd it is done. As far as angles r concern Allah dnt need them but is way how He is taking work. Like a king has workers it dsnt mean king cant do that work. U r such a sick mind persons that u dnt read quran instead u read from anti islamic sites, u always say koran never say quran u truth sicker. I am very wid happy this site it providing a platform for others to undrstand islam, u cn read cmnts ppls r coming nd saying agni i am going to acpt islam, u plan Allah plan Allah is the best plannar.

SDC ur answer has been given in quran, u can read directly. Allah said this world is for test, an exam, we have choice. we can accept or deny, we can work for jannat or dosakh. u cant understand if Allah forcefully make human muslim(ita’t guzar, submitting his will) like other creature than their is no reward like no reward to animals or trees or moon. ok hope u understand

You are stupid. There is no test or anything. Why all of a sudden does Allah need to create a weird test for non-existent souls by creating a non-existent universe? Not only this, but your Allah creates IMMENSE confusion in the minds of these souls once he has created them out of nothing. Why not preserve the FIRST book he sent to Adam/Eve. Why does he only protect the Quran and not the Bible?

@faizi Do you think if my mind limit or finite, I may start dreaming. I will start to think Allah is just limited to a throne on 7th sky. Allah depends on a throne to sit. Allah does not like to stand much. Allah depends on angles to give revelation to Mohamad & he by his own powers can not fill the heart with knowledge to his devotee. or getting or realizing Allah is not bliss but bliss comes from sex with virgins. Allah is not blissful but blissful are virgins. Are these your vast imaginations?

you are saying right, Islam means peace. But how is jehad is not the part of Islam, In which allah has said it clearly that seaze and kill non- Muslims. If you be leave that their was nothing in the binging. It means he create everything from his hands. when he mad everything then,All made by allah should be halal.Then how pig becomes haram. and if Allah created haram sects then he is guilty. Why he created such animals. Do you accept that it was his mistake. If it was his mistake then he is like human. Because what i be leave Man can do mistake but Allah can not do any mistake.

truth siker, i m nt asking what shuld i tel to my comunist frnd. I m asking u d question bt u r nt answering? Cn u imagine the vastness of this universe? We knw Allah has no image, laisa kamisli shai, there is nothing similar to him. If there is nothing similar then how cn anybody compare wid anything? Our mind has limits Allah has nt limits.

@faizi I suggest you answer to give your friend. Tell him if he thinks Everything means any moral & immoral act or any stupid activity. Then say him No. Allah can not do everything in this sense. Allah can not kill himself/herself. Allah never sits idly before/after this universe creation, there is nothing old and new for eternally exist entity. Allah can not punish eternally to his children. Allah can not change himself. Allah is perfect & unchangeable. Allah Can not make a stone which too heavy to be lifted even by Allah. Allah can not make me/you Allah. Allah can not be depend on virgins to give pleasure to his follower. Allah can not be worship desires. Allah can not destroy soul. If you have doubts ask again.

truth siker, my communist friend asked me that can Allah do everything? If i say yes then he asked can Allah make any thing which He cant destroy? Is there in any answer of this question? If i say yes then i m wrong or i say no then i m wrong? Allah explain in whole quran that Allah has no image. U r picking such verses for which first u hv to answer that question . Cn u imagine that number? Ur mind hs such capability? If yes then i cn answer easily otherwise i wil answer but it wil b long. First tel me ur mental capabality.

@faizi I am also asking you very simple questions before get into debate with you. 1. Which is eternal kalama of Allah? Answer me if you have read Kuran. 2. Why I should believe Allah was sitting idly before this universe creation? 3. Do you think after reading Kuran “Allah is perfect”. Can perfect be changed or Perfect is changeable? 4. If I bow head towards shiva idol, it is just direction for me. Will I be considered as Idolator? & If yes, Why? 5. What is the meaning of Allah sits on a comfortable throne on 7th sky & under his throne a book named Loha Mahfooj has been kept.

Good article that talks the truth but just one disappointment. Gandhiji, being a normal human being and not a well trained/educated yogi could with the war with his will, might have done many mistakes during his time. But his strong belief not to hurt anyone and focus on freedom of people, I felt here, must have been given good respect by calling his name. Keeping one’s head cool even after being physically assaulted shows the power of his will – that conquered not just his/state’s enemy’s heart but all people around the world. I believe, he knew that even the so called ‘enemies’ are the souls from same ‘source’.

Also a kind request if you could publish the English translation of Rig-veda.

@truth seaker, i am answering in the form of question. There r 2 qstn ans me- 1, as 10 to the power 2 is 100, then 10 to the power 2523645868642565842 thousand million is what? Can u imagine it, 2- is, if i say one draw a line or imagine a line which one point in dlhi nd second line at infinite. Can u imagine that line. Our mind has limit. Also i say that “apke sir pe eik neta ka hath h” so is there any hand in reality on ur head. Can u tel me the meaning of hand in this saying. If u can tel these thing than u understand that Allah is formles or formful by quran.

@faizi If I worship an idol of Allah in which Idol of Allah has shown sitting on a comfortable stone & there is book also(Loha Mahfooj) under the throne. I know Idol is not real Allah but it is just direction for me to worship the Allah. Will I be considered Idolator?

kal g, i dnt knw sanskrit then what abt veda, what wil poor tamil, bengali tamil, japani, punjabi etc wil do? original Veda is in every languages of india?? If i cn learn sanskrt then cn i nt learn arabi. Y dnt u undrstand? Any third person tel me what is right answer.

kal g, se the cmnts of ram haha, ur theory nt believed by hindus. First person adam a.s. Was prophet after that in evry buk given to prophets it is mentiond abt hazrat mohammad s.a.w, quran say torah nd injel wer from God. But peoples changed them, nw u cn se thousands bibles. Quran has no change. Previous buks nd prophet were are nt to folow when new prophet come. Quran say that was buk, u believe in it but folow new one, nw it is til the of qayamat. No new buk wil come, it is for forever so it is preserved. Basic principles are same like tawheed, day of judgment. If it is frm God nd it is saying nw believ me nd folow me then hw culd u say no no i’l believe first one. A gud article u cn read http://www.towards-understanding-islam.com, pleas read then u cn ask anything.

it is like exam, as teacher say if u read nd work hard ull pas nd if u nt do hard work uil fail but there is no exam after dat.

But Ah…the analogy doesnt hold because the teacher keeps changing the book all the time. On the one hand the teacher in 100 AD gave a book written in Hebrew/Aramic. Then, all of a sudden in 700/800 AD, the teacher changed the script to Arabic. 🙁 Poor students are all confused. What would happen to those students who only knew Sanskrit/Hindi/Bengali/Tamil/etc.? They automatically failed 🙁

In any case, I think I have discussed quite a lot with you. From going through the posts, you have many many unanswered questions which you keep jumping over not answering. If you want to continue, go back to the beginning of my interaction with you and answer questions one by one.

Well, talking about exam analogy, why only 1 attempt to pass an exam? What if the students falls sick before the exams or has an accident, should he not be allowed a second chance? Is this not be unjust? Even a worldy system of examination seems more lenient than your “most merciful” allah, because they will under compassionate grounds allow you at least more than 1 chance to pass an exam.

What if the students falls sick before the exams or has an accident, should he not be allowed a second chance?

Great question…But alas, Allah is the greatest of disciplinarians! I asked a question about this once to a Momin…he gave me a weird answer about how children, when they die before the age of 10, automatically go to heaven. Then, the next question is, why does Allah allow you and me to grow to 11 years of age and remain Kufrs? It would have been much better for us Kufrs if we died by 10 years of age.

Question to All Momins:

If you die when you are 90 years old, on day of resurrection, how old will you be? Will your “organ” be capable of acting like the way it did when you were, say, 30? Ahem Ahem…

@ Kalbhairav, Can’t you see brother.. if you die at 90 Allah will make you young again yaar… come on use your logic!!!… Allah has also provided facility for you if you want to live with your Family… if all the members of your family attain Jannah then you all can live as a family in Jannah too… that means you will be 33 years old, your dad will be 33, mother will be 33, grandmother will be 33, Grandpa will be 33 , daughter will be 33, Son will be 33… 🙂 … You will have “Hoors” to enjoy, Your son, your dad.. everybody.. no one will commit a sin, you will hear no lies, there will be no Tiredness, you will be given strength of a 1000 men… Although you might hear your Best friend or Cousin or your Favourite Teacher of your Primary School or a Poor man you once saw lying on the footpath growling howling in pain in the Hell.. still your mind will not be affected by it as you will programmed to enjoy enjoy and enjoy… 🙂 This is True Spirituality KB… tumhare bas ki baat nahi hai.. tum nahi Samjhoge 🙁 … you continue babbling about your Disgusting Vedas that teaches Universal Peace, Talks about ‘Shanti’ in each and every atom of the universe.. talks about World as a Family… talks about Women as the ‘Shakti’ the force of life, teaches Self Realization and Self Control…talks about God being within us as our Eternal Guide…… Grow Up man!!

@ Kalbhairav, Can’t you see brother.. if you die at 90 Allah will make you young again yaar… come on use your logic!!!… Allah has also provided facility for you if you want to live with your Family… if all the members of your family attain Jannah then you all can live as a family in Jannah too… that means you will be 33 years old, your dad will be 33, mother will be 33, grandmother will be 33, Grandpa will be 33 , daughter will be 33, Son will be 33… 🙂 … You will have “Hoors” to enjoy, Your son, your dad.. everybody.. no one will commit a sin, you will hear no lies, there will be no Tiredness, you will be given strength of a 1000 men… Although you might hear your Best friend or Cousin or your Favourite Teacher of your Primary School or a Poor man you once saw lying on the footpath growling howling in pain in the Hell.. still your mind will not be affected by it as you will be programmed to enjoy enjoy and enjoy… 🙂 This is True Spirituality KB… tumhare bas ki baat nahi hai.. tum nahi Samjhoge 🙁 … you continue babbling about your Disgusting Vedas that teaches Universal Peace, Talks about ‘Shanti’ in each and every atom of the universe.. talks about World as a Family… talks about Women as the ‘Shakti’ the force of life, teaches Self Realization and Self Control…talks about God being within us as our Eternal Guide…… Grow Up man!!

The 4 Varnas are required for any society to grow. The most modern example applied globally of the 4 varna system is the execution of EPC projects. In these projects, Engineering represents the Brahmin varna or those who give knowledge inputs, the Project management represents the Kshatriya varna who controls and drive all the process to work, Procurement represents the Vaishya varna who take responsibility to reach all the materials to the worksite and the Construction represents the Shudra varna which takes all the inputs from the other varnas and physically contributes to build the project. Without any one of these functions, the project is not going to succeed.

we have tested quran, it is forever, it has every solution of life. Regarding other buks yes we hv writen acording to this century nd trying our best we hv buk on every topic, there is no confusion. I hv displayed it in many book fares nd got the cmnts. 2nd thing aryasamaji dnt belive in other buk except veda, u cn this site only. 3rd if u believe in yoni change then nothing cn stop u doing wrong, taking bribe etc. It is only hel nd paradise concept which stops u.

u r so versed abt islam but dnt knw what believing muslim mean? Ok it separates in muslim nd non muslim it say only believing cn go to jannat. How u got the vedas if there is no messanger(as hindus say it dev vani i dnt what u believe?), what are rishis who give u this veda? R they nt messanger of ishwar? What is geeta u r refering nd who is krishna? Hindu believ he is avtar? If u believ in islam nd ur aryasamaj is right then maxim risk only yoni nd if islam is right nd u r arya samaji u’l get hell agni forever. Y u r taking so big risk? Cn u nt becom gud arya samaji in next yoni?

The Vedas are eternal. The Rishis are not messengers like Jesus or Mohammed who received their message directly from God. The essence of the Vedas are there even today for you and me to discover. Why depend on the ancient Rishis? For you and me to discover the Vedas, we first need to cleanse our mind, practise Yoga, attain Samadhi or the Turiya state. In that state, when all dualities vanish, Brahman will be realized. That is the essence of the Vedas. It is available today for you and me!

As regards Krishna, there are different interpretations. Some of us Hindus hold him to be an Avatar of Vishnu. Some of us look to him as an allegorical figure. It is speculated that Badarayana or Vyasa, the composer of the Mahabharatha, ALSO composed the BG. The BG, as I said before, summarizes the Vedanta.

Regarding the risk thing that you keep talking about, I already answered it saying that it is just a modified version of Pascal’s wager. But this lets you down. Arent you telling me indirectly that it is out of “fear” of eternal hellfire that you are Muslim? Why live in fear?

I think the major differences of Islam and Hindu believes are 1) In Islam Allah is superior and his creations are inferior (to him) while in Hinduism the God itself is the creative force and creation. 2) In Islam, the Moksha means gaining the jannat forever while in Hinduism, its raising oneself to the supreme consciousness and oneness with God. 3) In Islam there were limited number of prophets on Earth and in Hinduism its limitless Gurus and everyone can become a Guru or prophet. Everyone can contact the supreme consciousness and attain any highest level of intellect/spirituality.

It’s true that for a society, Islam is a well structured and simple to follow in comparison with Vedas. It’s a small book which talks very strictly on rules definitely makes a common man’s life easy to rely upon and lead his life. Vedas in other hand is not just for someone to lead one’s life but leads to the ultimate knowledge of self – everything. It cannot be just studied and understood but realize the truth oneself as we cannot really express a sensual feeling – taste, smell etc – to anyone but just make them feel of it – ‘realize’ it.

I think these punishments that you mention are in Manusmriti. I dont hold that supreme. Maybe Arya Samaj does. They can answer you better.

Also, it is unfair for you to expect the answers to EVERYTHING from the Vedas. The Vedas lay the foundations. The Upanishads constitute the end of the Vedas, or Vedanta. The BG summarizes the essence of the Vedas and Upanishads.

I already told you that you will not like my answer because it destroys your notion of birth-based caste system. Now the only option left for you is to state that you will not accept what is said in the BG. What more can I do?

All said, regardless of whatever ANY holy book says, whether it is Vedas, Old Testament, Quran or Guru Granth, we have to apply the rationality test to it. We are in the 21st century. we have made HUGE scientific progress. We need to be able to reinterpret books according to this day and age. Do you agree?

kal g, i hv given my view clearcut, what happen to me after death accordin to u if i am beliving muslim? What wil happen to u a beliving arya samaji hindu? Nd do u believe in BHAGVAT GEETA wow non veda history buk.

Please explain to me what you mean when you say a “believing Muslim”. If as a “believing Muslim” your belief involves separating the world into Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb or US vs THEM,…ie. as long as one perceives duality in the world, regardless of whether one is a Muslim or Christian or Arya Samaji or atheist, there will be cycles of birth and death. Moksha is possible only when one perceives EVERYTHING as Brahman alone. This is the Advaitic answer.

According to Dvaita, one needs to pursue a path of Bhakti or intense devotion. This Bhakti can be directed to any Ishta Daivatam. But this Ishta Daivatam does NOT separate the world into us vs them or doesnt send prophets from time to time.

So, unless we are clear what you mean by “believing Muslim”, I cannot answer my question. If as a believing Muslim you are happy with Allah/Mohammed but dont hold an opinion that non-Muslims are hell-bound, you may ALSO attain Moksha.

This has already been explained to you. But since the answer is not what you want to hear, you keep shutting your ears. Let me explain again.

The surname does NOT denote Varna. A person in Saudi Arabia can be a Brahmin if he exhibits Sattvic qualities. A person in USA can be a Shudra if he exhibits Tamasic qualities. Also, within each of us, at different points in time there are different qualities/gunas. So, at different points in time I have been a Shudra, a Vaishya, a Kshatriya and a Brahmin. The same with you. Did we have to change our names at those times?

For what constitutes Sattva, Rajas and Tamas, please refer to Bhagvad Gita Chapter 18. It is NOT by birth. Let me give you an example. A Christian person who does good deeds in this life in Africa and developed many Sattvic tendencies will continue in his next birth where he can attain more Sattvic tendencies in, say Saudi Arabia, as a liberal Sunni. This continues until he reaches perfection when he unites with Brahman.

kal bhai, please once explain me when a person change to pandit from shudra or vice versa by karma. What wil he ad to his name then? How cld other identify them? These r practical problem u r saying we ALL knw that. Then what, u cn write anything on islam when we ask abt hinduism u say no no give from veda. Practicaly u r molesting shudras nd saying no it is nt in veda. Tel me what is d system of caste in arya samaj. How u pick ppls frm u to clean roads nd garbage? Y here no mandir of arya samaj in my city? Is non arya samaji is non hindu? U r confusing me. In my city these 60 thousand hindu r nt hindu? I knw they wil remain hindu whatever they do.

First, of all your understanding of the caste system is flawed. Caste system not birth based. It was a division of the society based on labor. So, we had brahmins (intellectuals), kshatriyas (protective class), vaishyas (traders), kayasthas (skilled laborers), and shudras (unskilled laborers). A shudra becomes a brahmin only through his efforts.

there so many beliefs in hinduism, whatever u belive u r hindu. I asked many persons due to which act or words any hindu wil b nomore hindu ie he’l become non hindu ? He wil remain hindu whatever he does or say. Normaly i say my friends dat by law of probability there r 50% chance of hinduism right nd 50% chance of islam is right(my belief is islam 100% right), supose hindsm rite than u nd me(being muslim) both wil go to next yoni acrdng to karma. But if islam is right then u hv to live in hell fire forever nd if i m beliving muslim wil b in paradise forever. Whatever yoni wil get(if hinduism is right nd u become muslim) is better than hell. Also i’l read veda translation of these agnis on jamnagar site nd then ask question to them. If nw i.ll post anything frm veda they say no no it is wrong translation.

But if islam is right then u hv to live in hell fire forever nd if i m beliving muslim wil b in paradise forever.

See, this is just Pascal’s wager. There are many responses to it. Here’s one…which version of Islam will land you in heaven? Shia or Sunni? What if Xity is the ONE TRUE RELIGION and everything else false? Unless you prove that Allah exists and Quran is the word of God, your wager is meaningless.

Now, next you talk of paradise forever for you. You also mentioned previously that you have many Hindu friends. Now, heres another challenge for you. In paradise when you are in the garden where beautiful streams flow, you KNOW that these Hindu friends of yours are burning in hell. You may even hear their screams of pain and anguish as Allah provides for them fresh skin as they are burnt and reburnt. Will heaven really be heaven for you when you hear screams of anguish from your old friends? Will you be happy in such a heaven?

akhila sir, u hvnt read previous cmnts of krishna he is saying dat there is no pages on fb regarding islam or websites muslims dnt spread islam or try to convince they only throw bmb. So i said u searched islam nd picked anti islamic site so dat u cn satisfy ur ill desire of molesting islam. Secondly sir r u nt seing contradiction they are one person become pandit by karma, what a joke? It so simple, hv u ever sen any joshi, trivedi or mishra in sc. Or i hv nt listen anyone saying that he born in pandit family nw become sc due to karma. I m nt saying abt auto rickshaw, i m saying abt pandit becoming sc nd cleaning road. If sex slave is gift of islam it shld b cmn practice in islamic world thesedays? Do u find in anywhere in muslim world. I dnt hate hindus. My 60% frnd r hindu, we eat in same plate, roam togather.

SC/ST, etc are legislated by government. Now, a Joshi, Dwivedi, Trivedi or Chaturvedi, etc. do not become Brahmins per the Vedas just by birth. Nobody is born a Brahmin. Those who claim so are abusing the Vedas.

You are confusing the caste system, which is a social/legislative construct with Varnashrama. It is indeed unfortunate that the two have been mixed.

The point of Agniveer and others here is that birth-based Varna system has no sanction of the Vedas. If you disagree please bring appropriate Vedic verses to support your cause. Otherwise you are just regurgitating the problems with India that ALL of us are aware of already.

And faizy come out of the illusion that there are no Islam pages on fb, or no islam sites. We all are here because of the hate islam sites, because of Zakir nayak promoted sites like IslamHinduism, etc..

Dear Faizy, some of ur words impressed me, but some are used just for argument sake. Baba Ambedkar started reservation, agreed, some opposed it, and many still opposing. Reason is not for hate towards some caste, because it is birth based. We support economic backward people to be supported, not a rich one born in SC or ST labelled caste. Secondly, why a pandit or thakur will clean road ? what sin they did ? Some one who did the sin will be punished for his deeds, and we all see this happen. See the past, who ever created discrimination, never died happily, its the truth even for Mahatma Gandhi.

naruto. A comunity by birth forcd to clean shit, nw u r saying it nt in veda, is it nt serious topic?? Dnt we hv any responsibility to uplift them. U hv given lolipop of reservation otherwise balasaheb ordrd them to throw this religion of cast system. U end reservation today dey wil say tata to hinduism. In the name of dr. Zakir u start abusing quran, Allah in this web. If i shw u miror u say discus on serious topic. In my city there r 60thousand hindus no arya samaji mandir here. U urself minority what cn u do to sc. When they were forced to clean d shit were u sleeping? U make this website for injecting islam hate. Ur duty is to tel hindus dat sc are nowhere in veda nd pandit thakur shuld clean the road to wipe their sin, it is debt on pandits.

Much as I appreciate your concern for your fellow human beings faizi , your ramblings are nothing but what a good man would feel at the social injustice of what is happening in the name of caste in India. There are documentaries of people converting to Xtinty, Islam just to escape the social stigma. However, the menace is so strong that they never can escape the stigma fully, and continue their miserable lives in the new religion. I am not talking about all, but a good few, enough to prove that change of religion is nothing but a short term relief and not a permanent solution. What I beleive Agniveer is proposing to do is to UPROOT the caste-by-birth and upper-lower caste menace totally by citing vedic scriptures as proof. Since for all hindus vedas are supreme, the sense of shame that one associates with oneself implicitly thinking he is born in a low caste is removed for ever. And believe me, Arya samaj has done and is stilldoing more in this regard than you could imagine. However, they dont have the petro dollars of the muslims nor the euros pouring in the name of the Joshua project from vatican. The filthy rich Hindus remain just that : filthy and rich, without a care about their fellow suffering hindus. Despite so many adversties, Agniveer is trying to regain the original,discrimination-free vedic society back in place. Cheerios.

There have been wrongs done by people in the past and we acknowledge it. People like Raja Rammohan Roy, Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar, Jyotiba Phule, etc have worked to uplift the status of the poor and downtrodden and stop the tyranny of the privileged class. But, muslims have done worser things to nonmuslims, not to speak of fellow muslims. Are you not aware of the bomb blasts in Pakistan and Iraq where muslims of minority sects are killed on a daily basis. What do have say about the fate of shias, ahmaddiyas, kurds, etc. who are routinely targetted by wahabis and that to in the name of islam? They in fact do not consider the other sects to be muslims even.

but it indeed gets a mention indian constitution… so getting what you wished to ask… i answered that yes a dalit be made pundit this thing is possible and done in arya samaj because there is no one or no word as ‘dalit’ in arya samaj or vedic ideology!

where is the contradiction in mine and vik’s views??????

you are just a person who has been fed up as islam is best!! please scrutinize your claim once!!!

krisna, u dnt knw what i mean to master, u cn check ur level bcz there master refers to God. I hv to talk on this level bcz u ppl either conviniently skip that line of verse which explain the real meaning of that verse, or u urself give it to meaning which suport ur meaning. Many ppls clarified that kaba is only centre, used for direction, we dnt worship that. If u r nice person like other cmn hindus are u shld understand it, hazrat bilal give azan(cal) for namaz standing over kaba, bt u dnt want to undrstand. Have u ever sen any idol worshiper worshiping his idol standing over it.

Muslims and Christians accuses Hindus of phallic worshipers, where as in reality Muslim and Christians have themselves come from phallic worshiping cult of Egyptians and Babylons and there are undeniable proof for that. Muslims and Christians do not know that CIRCUMSCION is phallic ritual of phallic worshipers of Egyptians and Babylon. Minarets and Obelisk are really symbols of phallus that is why Switzerland banned creation of minarets in their country.

Do you know black stone of Kaaba is vagina cum URINAL the black stone with silver casing was used by pagan arabs as vagina of Al Uzza who pagans arabs believed that kissing it gives sexual power of numerous men and that is why mohammad uses to kiss it and the myth of Mohammad’s sexual power equivalent to several men.

Muslims don’t know that black stone that they kisses were destroyed to pieces by invading army and urinated by Qarmatians. They used the black stone as urinal for than 20 years. To Know about Qarmatians see in wikipedia, so poor muslims are really kissing a URINAL and bowing 5 times a day to a URINAL see this link.

the foremost Lingam which is devoid of colour, taste, hearing, touch etc is spoken of as Prakriti or nature.

The nature itself is a Lingam (or symbol) of Shiva. When we see nature, we infer the presence of its creator – Shiva. Shiva Lingam is the mark of Shiva the creator, Shiva the sustainer and Shiva the destructor. It also dispels another myth in which Shiva is considered only as a destructor.

Another authentic reference comes from Skanda Purana where lingam is clearly indicated as the supreme Shiva from where the whole universe is created and where it finally submerge.

lastly wherever i go rss page, bajrangdal page on fb or agniveer, i hav seen them doing anti islamic propaganda. It is their negative propaganda? Y dey need negative things becz they dnt hv any thing positive. Therd is no divorce in hinduism they hv to make hindu mariage act. Samething to all problems of humanity- hinduism hv no solution. Islam hs solution so we do postve propanda. U cn se any islamic or muslamic web page or gp on fb. Comn hindus are nice even very nice bt ppls like u intoxicating them. U r afraid of zakir naik, u dnt knw there are lot of zakir naik who never come on tv. Ask ALLAH for hidayat.

Yes, we will continue to update our customs and practices, but you are still stuck in medieval times.

Common hindus are nice because you can brainwash them with Zakir’s fallacious arguments, but we are the evil ones because we stand as vanguards of our faith and will foil the repeated attempts of you, jehadis.

kal g u knw what i mean u hav no answer. It is caled dalit in india. For ur convinience SHUDRA brahmin PUJARI. hav u seen? I was talking wid my one sc friend, he was saying same thing parhe to pandit hoye. I asked same cn take risk? Nd in ur loving one last rituals u’l cal parhe to pandit hoye type pandit? Can u allow ur real brother to do last rituals of ur mother. He was silent.

yea!! come in arya samaj … there are pandits who are might be dalits etc.. and there are female priests also who carries marriage… if you have never seen paris it does not mean there is no paris!! 😀

——— I was talking wid my one sc friend, he was saying same thing parhe to pandit hoye. I asked same cn take risk? Nd in ur loving one last rituals u’l cal parhe to pandit hoye type pandit? Can u allow ur real brother to do last rituals of ur mother. He was silent——–

and once i asked a muslim about that what will the dead grave of khwaja ajmer would give you? what would that dead whose even body is now over run by insects .. could give you! and he was silent!!

why do you take discussions as low to level that person said me this and that person said me that!! come on scriptures dude! 😀

i knw my cmnt wil be deleted. U can se ppls coming here nd saying i am going to acept islam, agniver u r wrong. Hinduism is nothing but idolworship, worship of penis? Shivling lol, vagina yoni? Lol, nagababa, nanga baba? Lol, girls drink water after pouring to penis of naga baba. How much beliv in arya samaj. U hv never put any arya samaji veda translation in any website, so whatever i quote u’l say no its nt authentic translation. Satya adharma i hv seen u. U r part of agni team. Allah give hidayat who want. If u want gumrahi than its ur choice. Bjp delhis cm contestant elder brother acptd islam when nda govt was in centre. He is phd from howard. He has to refuge fronm here. In quran what u are refering to verses for hate, are for mischievious persons who dnt obey his master.

————-“Lol, nagababa, nanga baba? Lol, girls drink water after pouring to penis of naga baba.”————- and in parts of arab girls are so worried about hiding their face from others that they even lift their skirt up to hide their face.. as per quranic superstitions!! what about worshiping the graves … lol!! graves??? what would a dead person give you who is just sand now?

————-” How much beliv in arya samaj?”———— how much believed earth is round in past ? most people like you believed earth is flat.. because bible said so! similarly you say quran is correct bcoz your father said so! and many many many believe in arya samaj… and further arya samaj is not book that you believe or not! vedas are believed to be supermost by all hindus. then all people follow arya samaj in their marriage and death rites!

———–“U hv never put any arya samaji veda translation in any website,”———— u are just ignorant , check out the arya samaj jamnagar website… all four vedas and darshans also. google “read vedas” — it is on first page results!!

—————-“Satya adharma i hv seen u. U r part of agni team”———— yea everyone opposing you is part of a team… ? no doubt on that sir! hats off!! 😀

————–“In quran what u are refering to verses for hate, are for mischievious persons who dnt obey his master”—– so means quran paves a way for master and slave system and also sets uop the rules for slavery??? so quran justifies slavery !! right?? this is what you have said yourself!!

its funny when u say that no casteism by birth but one becm pundit by work nd knwledge. I hvnt seen any temple where any shudra is head pujari. nobody even agniveer team wil ever ready for his or family person’s antimsanskar done by dalit pujari. For ur every grahdosha or whatever u hv to give food brahmins or cow, nowhere it is mention that anybody can give food to shudras instead of pandits. U knw y sc are stil hindu, becz of reservation. Stop reservation for 1 year nd se the results.

Any Muslim talking of hatred needs to open ANY random page of the Quran. Probability is high that verse provides a graphic description of Allah’s eternal hellfire. How can you accuse Hitler of hatred and pogrom when your Quran surpasses Main Kampf in that respect? Why are you still worshipping a God who promises to torture us in eternal hellfire and to make it more painful will provide us with newer skin each time the old skin burnt? 🙁 Cannot Allah just judge us based on how we have treated each other in this world instead of whether we believe in Mohammad and Abu or Ali, etc.? Why is the criteria for Jannah so random and ad-hoc?

this site is created for hatred. U cn urself see there are three four person comnting in every post ie vik, vajr. Wherever u go everybody defaming islam nd muslim. U cn se rss page on fb. Agniveer playing wid words like on quran nd modern science post he stop cmnts. He has nt analysed clear facts of quran, like skin have pain receptor. Dr. Morice bucaile acptd islam after reading verse in quran regarding pain receptors in skin. Ppls here used to repeat there questions, they have brain but dnt understand. Regarding hadees related to hazrat ayesha they add there words in hadis, u may answer bt they dnt understand even admin delete ur cmnt.

This site is created for hatred, and IRF promoted sites are created to promote world peace, is that right? Dr. Half-mind Bucaile accepted islam after knowing pain receptors, tell him to study Vedas, he come to know of quantum physics from it. Maybe, he will then change his mind.

SLAM DUNK!!!Nothing else describes this post. It is a bit of coincidence. I happened to discuss Purusha Sukta and casteism with a bunch of people in the middle of Ganesh Chaturthi festivities that were organized by people around our house. The topic veered towards lot of attempts being made by local Xtian groups in someone’s neighborhood to convert people based on casteism. I discuss in detail on what Purusha Sukta means and the guy that was being targeted by other converts in his family left a happy man. It is important that this post / parts of it are translated in as many languages as possible and distributed to people that visit temples.

INDOLOGISTS HYPOCRISY CAN BE EASILY EXPOSED BY EXAMINING ONE FACT that is those who have read bible and VEDAS would easily know that one of the important GOSPEL OF BIBLE (GOSPEL OF JOHN) STARTS WITH A VEDIC VERSE. GOSPEL OF JOHN’S FIRST VERSE (JOHN 1:1) IS A COPY PASTE OF VEDIC VERSE. “In the beginning was word …………”

Why did hypocrite Indologist like Max Muller and other Indologist hid this fact, obviously they are Christian Missionary agent and nicely know that if these secrets come to western public christianity will be destroyed, BANK OF VATICAN WILL BECOME BANKRUPT.

Gandhiji though good was HYPOCRITE on many occasions like he used to criticize revolutionaries for using VIOLENCE but never criticized muslims for butchering Hindus in Kerala and also on many other instances.

He also insisted Indian youth to join British Army to slay the Germans in world war (probably WW1) because it was duty of Indians to protect their lords (Britishers)! He kept on criticizing Indian revolutionaries (fighting for their nation) for inciting violence against Britishers but supported butchering of thousands of Germans by British Army. And this gentleman Mohandas is foolishly considered as father of MOTHER land 🙁

You are correct, many historians believe that if Gandhi instead of supporting Britishers in First World War had started Non Cooperation Movement and Quiet India Movement during First world war India would have been free 10-12 years before only instead 1947.

He might have not told something openly which he should have but that shouldnt mean that his intentions were wrong. Anyone can be deceived by one’s own learnig or believes but having a good intention for people and trying hard for it on the path of ahimsa and succeeding in it was his virtue. Many of his stands were not justified but still he could gather and lead the largest group of people by his will. He indeed a great person – a great son of mother India and father of a nation.

Good article. The concept of Varna is decided based on gunas or different aspects of Pradhana which are Rajas, Tamas and Sattva. Sattva is a + force. Tamas is a – force. Rajas is a neutral force. So, a logical question could be HOW can three gunas combine to give 4 varnas? Heres how as explained in the Bhagvad Gita.

1. Sattva as primary and rajas as secondary 2. Sattva as primary and tamas as secondary 3. Rajas as primary and sattva as secondary 4. Rajas as primary and tamas as secondary 5. Tamas as primary and sattva as secondary 6. Tamas as primary and rajas as secondary

Since Sattva and Tamas are radically opposed, options 2 and 5 cannot be and are meaningless.

All other four combinations are valid and are not composed of diametrically opposed components, giving rise to the four varnas.

So, let us work towards improving our gunas or inherent nature which is completely unrelated to the family we took birth in. 🙂

Dear KalBhairav, I like your systematic argumentation but the conclusion you draw from it are not correct. There are very well mentioned the Family dharmas in Bhagavad-Gita. And the loss of family dharmas is very sad and at the basis of society’s ills. To destroy society’s order is the greatest loss for a society. Since 60 yrs. some sections of India try to destroy Varnaashrama system and India is sinking more and more into chaos and division. Birth is not a game. One is born into a family to make some specific experiences acc. to the karma. Therefore one should follow the family dharma to fulfil the family obligations and one’s own dharma. Every section of society has its obligations. Brahmin’s family traditions have preserved Veda and Vedic philosophy throughout all the invasions and occupations. Brahmins do learn Veda, not just some puja here and there. Kshatriyas defend the order, Vashyas create wealth, Shudras create and work too. America’s shudras disappeared and they have to import poor Mexicans who work for almost nothing without rights and always fearing deportation. The western style of society is greed-based, the Vedic system is birth-based.

No Shaas. You are stupid. Varna is NOT based on birth. It is based on gunas. Anyone can develop sattvic gunas. You are completely short sighted if you simply equate manual work with birth. You should be laughed out of polite company for advocating this.

This is your last warning. Please stop advocating caste-system based as this site has a Zero-tolerance policy for this most disgusting practice which we consider even worse than deeds of Osama Bin Laden. Any further post and you shall be banned.

@.Shass Here is list of few who born as a Brahmin but later became Dasyu / Rakshash & Vice-Versa. You can find more details inhttp://agniveer.com/888/caste-system/ Matanga Rishi was son of Chandal but became a Brahmin.

m. Raavan was born from Pulatsya Rishi but became a Rakshas.

n. Pravriddha was son of Raghu King but became a Rakshas.

o. Trishanku was a king but became a Chandal

p. Sons of Vishwamitra became Shudra. Vishwamitra himself was a Kshatriya who later became a Brahmin.

can you provide a single mantra from all four Vedas that support your stupidity???

there is no difference between you and fanatic muslims who lay these allegations on Vedas. All attempts to make Vedas look as they support the caste system has been debunked by Agniveer ji not once, but many times. The proof is this article here and all the previous articles on this site. Moreover, one of the main missions of this site is to annihilate the caste system since we indians have sufferred alot and still are.

people like you are the downfall for our dharma, and I highly disrespect and condemn your views concerning the support for the caste system.

Now, either you kindly apologize for your views and join us in our mission to destroy the caste system or I would request the Admin to ban you for good on this site.

No but I can give you an example for YOUR stupidity. You are, it seems a supporter of non-birth based system of society, just like the american chaotic system that leads the whole world economy to the brink of collapse and exists on the basis of importing intelligence from abroad because their criminal system just doesn’t work. The western chaotic societies are so vocal for equality but sustain themself by importing poor people from outside. Vedic system is based on birth, the western system is based on greed. There is one little but for many victims important difference: Vedic people do not lay bombs – neither to non-believers nor to believers, as it is usual with the fanatics of abrahamic religions. Dear Vik, your “request to the the Admin to ban” me from this forum shows that you are as impatient, as intolerant, as the “muslim fanatics” mentioned by you.

I never said Americans are 100% vedic, even they perform some anti vedic practices which are insults to humanity. Anyways, back to vedas, there is no such thing as a caste system in Vedas. I only support Vedic way of humanity, and as per Vedas every single person has the right to become a brahmin or kshatriya or vaishya. As far as shudras are concerned, we were all shudras at one point in our lives including you. The only difference is that we gained education and became what we wanted, and those who fail to gain any education or training remain a shudra. Shudra is the basic profession for all humanity, not some stupid low caste label that you want to stamp on others. By the way, do you know how many people in India today are suffering due to this stupid caste sytem? People are even getting killed just because they are victims of this garbage. If you want to do something noble in your life, than become a true brahmin educate all those stupid so called brahmins that we should love all humanity and not consider them inferior.

It is unfortunate, but we are forced to ban this supporter of worst form of terrorism – caste-system – in lines of our Zero Tolerance policy for this disgusting mindset. We openly debate all ideologies despite sharpest differences because we still consider them to be human. We consider all humans of all religions and beliefs as our own family even though we may have most pointed debates. But the supporters of discrimination on basis of caste are the Dasyus or Anarya or Rakshasas with whom there is no point of even discussion. We appeal all to destroy this Rakshas within us all that has brought the world to mess and our great culture to such a downfall. And those who still want to live in their perverted delusion are challenged to propagate as much as they can regarding their superior genes and better nervous system. Agniveer promises to destroy their very roots in time to come. Admin

The role of the Brahmin is to preserve the Vedas, but that does not mean a person necessarily has to be born a Brahmin. The role of the Kshastriyas is to protect and govern, but that does not mean one needs to be born into it, same with Vaishyas and Shudras. You are confusing roles with birth.

Exactly! In fact you have quoted almost exactly from the draft of next article on this subject that is yet to be published: “….that does not mean that son of a doctor becomes a doctor merely by taking birth. He has to grow up, give exam and qualify for MBBS to use the Dr salutation. Same is true for every profession or Varna.”

Dear Kathrin, this is a very short-sighted vision. You cannot start to learn Veda when you decide to… after your school when you are 18 or 25 yrs. One has to learn from earliest age. And that is same with all other Varnas. Actually, even in the West “birds of the same feather flock together”. It is a very natural thing. A farmer’s son sees his father working and he learns the laws of nature very naturally. He knows farming by the age of 16 yrs. much better than a man of 20 who decides to attend some farming school. Vedic Varnaashrama system is a system – not a hodgpodge based on greed.

Arya Samaj is to DIVIDE AND RULE The Sanyasi’s holds the highest position in society and the truer he is to his Divine Nature the more will he take pride in sending down rays of light from his resplendent soul to the darkness which envelopes dwellers in palaces and hovels. Pray to the source of All Power to give you strength to perform the arduous task of reconciling your imperative duty as Grihasthis with the supreme duty of maintaining the Arya Samaj on the lofty pedestal which it occupies. Let us pray to the Almighty to grant us strength to bear persecution writhe fortitude, to resist with all our might the devilish temptation to return evil for evil and to trust to OM for the protection of the Arya Samaj.

Hari Om Tat Sat! Nice page. I am brahmacarini ( sadhvi). And I like Yours Page. Nice article. Yes I agree with this topic. A varna , and asrama is convertible. In Bhagavata Purana is write : ”If one shows the symptoms of being a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra, as described above, even if he has appeared in a different class, he should be accepted according to those symptoms of classification.” It is convertible. You are such a varna to which you have a tendency. Through practice and devotion to Ishvara U get a the tendency for the better, and U can change a Varna.

The exile of Rama Sita was. but this is not a simple story, as the history of human beings. It is leela of Srimati Sita Devi and Sri Raamacandra Ji. They had a ” rasa” -mood. We do not need to change their stories. This is their story of love.