Since you brought that up, what if I was to walk around with a fart machine spraying fart gas all over? That certainly wouldn't be allowed, right?
A key difference though is farting is a natural body function.. just like breathing air.

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I consider myself a very respectful smoker. When ever possible I move away from others even when outside, but what you describe will leave almost no place to smoke, especially with the NY sidewalk example as that is how most NY sidewalks are with hundreds of people walking at most times.

NY is filled with office buildings. I think if each building had a designated area where smoking was permitted, that would be fine - people wanting to smoke would have a place to do it and those not wanting to smoke could avoid it.

When its allowed everywhere, its very difficult to avoid it. When it was allowed in restaurants, bars..etc, the answer was simple - don't go if it was a bother.

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The smog and car exhaust fuses are overpowering to me in NYC, so the auto fumes example is very relevant to my point. I only drive less than 3,000 miles per year and could give up driving more than I could give up smoking.

The point is that car fumes are doing MORE damage to both individuals AND the environment than smoking could EVER do. The gov't has made smokers out to be lepers so that non-smokers would accept the ridiculous 600%+ cigarette taxes with the politicians losing the majority of votes. Just watch what happens when non-somkers get their wish and smoking becomes a thing of the past. Then the non-smokers will be crying because they have to pay so much more in taxes because of that lost revenue. Gov't does not reduce expenses, so that revenue will be replaced with a new tax that everyone pays.

I don't disagree with that. I do think if we compared the two and said which could society do without, smoking would be the answer.

The only real answer to NY would be to stay away - While I like visiting occasionally, Its not a place I'd want to spend a lot of time - its gross when its really hot out, too populated and can smell (not just car fumes!).

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One of those... "Be careful what you wish for" types of things for non-smokers I think. Me. I will be laughing my ass off when my clients ask me why they pay so much more in taxes AFTER smoking is virtually eliminated and that revenue gets allocatted to the non-smokers.

Even if i quit smoking, NO ONE should find taxing a minority at 600%+ on ANYTHING! This country was founded on this very same issue back with the Boston Tea Party.

Taxing at such high rates is just plain WRONG and that is NOT my opinion but just common sense. Anyone who thinks it is justified better be ready to pay it for ANYTHING they do in the future and they can just smile and say thank you then. Who would work if they paid $6,000.00 in taxes on $1,000.00 of wages?

I can't argue that. I do think as a society it is fine to limit activities that have an undesirable impact on others. Smoking happens to be one of those. Drinking and driving, another.. etc.. It doesn't make it right to tax it like crazy though. If we need more "tax" money, I think they really need to start at the top and cut the fat out of the state and federal government.

The can't smoke in public law means no smoking in enclosed public buildings like office buildings, restaurants, bars, churches, funeral homes, etc.. It doesn't mean no smoking in a public park, outdoor baseball game, etc..

They've had that law in MN for a while now.

You can still smoke in the casinos in MN which kinda sucks. If you're playing a machine anyone can sit down next to you and light up a cigarette, blow smoke in the area and there's nothing you can do about it except get up and leave.

The thing someone brought up about comparing car exhaust to cigarette smoking is pretty funny.

Since you brought that up, what if I was to walk around with a fart machine spraying fart gas all over? That certainly wouldn't be allowed, right?
A key difference though is farting is a natural body function.. just like breathing air.

The difference would be someone who did that with a fart machine, it would be intentionally trying to create problems. In the case of smoking, this has been done in this country for hundreds of years and was a major source of commerce, and smokers pay dearly to smoke no with the 600%+ tax rates.

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NY is filled with office buildings. I think if each building had a designated area where smoking was permitted, that would be fine - people wanting to smoke would have a place to do it and those not wanting to smoke could avoid it.

Ahhh, but the problem is that the gov't has said smoking in public buildings is illegal so the only place to go is outside now come rain or snow. So where else is left but the moon to smoke?

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When its allowed everywhere, its very difficult to avoid it. When it was allowed in restaurants, bars..etc, the answer was simple - don't go if it was a bother.

I have no problem with SOME reasonable limits on it at this point, but now YOU are saying not even outside in public, so that leaves NO WHERE left but the moon right?

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I don't disagree with that. I do think if we compared the two and said which could society do without, smoking would be the answer.

So is the reason for making smokers who pay an unfair portion of the taxes a matter of convenience or health reasons? If it is health reasons, then autos should also be banned. Period.

Shouldn't health be more important than convenience? Afterall, the whole basis is BS about second hand smoke for the most part especially outside. Those crackpots who say second hand smoke is more dangerous than actually smoking is just that. BS!!!!!!

It is BS because it defies logic and common sense. Second hand smoke is filtered by the filter AND much more by the smoker's lungs BEFORE others even have a chance to breath it in. Lighting a fire in a fireplace is MUCH more dangerous than smoking 10 packs of cigarettes, but this "research" (gov't funded) was necessary to justify such high taxes of 600%+ on cigarettes.

The whole public outcry about smoking has been a 10 year campaign by the various gov't to justify amazingly UNFAIR taxes on a group that is now in the minority. It is purely a revenue quest they have been on. Why do you suppose the ACLU will spend millions of dollars to defend a persons "right" to have a web page that promotes Man with Boy sex (an illegal activity) and arrainging such meetings through that web page, but they refuse to defend smokers who are clearly a persecuted minority at this point? Heck, Taxachusetts has been running ads on TV that basically show it is AOK to treat smokers like lepers. Imagine if they actually showed a minority race in such ads, but they only show white people in such ads so that the ACLU or other organizations will not complain.

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The only real answer to NY would be to stay away - While I like visiting occasionally, Its not a place I'd want to spend a lot of time - its gross when its really hot out, too populated and can smell (not just car fumes!).

Everyone has a choice except for smokers now. Smokers have been able to smoke for hundreds of years in this country and even as little as 10 years ago most everywhere. I accept a fair amount of limits but I just cannot afford to move to the moon right now.

If we cannot smoke ANYWHERE in public, then they should just make it illegal and then i will get cigarettes cheaper on the black market since the gov't has shown itself to be greedier than such organizations.

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I can't argue that. I do think as a society it is fine to limit activities that have an undesirable impact on others. Smoking happens to be one of those. Drinking and driving, another.. etc.. It doesn't make it right to tax it like crazy though. If we need more "tax" money, I think they really need to start at the top and cut the fat out of the state and federal government.

Lets see them tax alcohol at 600%+ like they do with cigarettes and see all the non-smokers cry out who drink. Heck Taxachusetts has been trying to pass a Snack Tax on all fast food, cokkies, crackers, candy, etc because they say it costs the state more money for health costs because people who eat this unhealthy food.

Where does it end? Where do we have ANY rights left and freedom of choice? By condoning and justifying such actions and playing into the gov't 's campaign, you and others are just relinquishing your future rights on ANYTHING the gov't wants to tax at an unfair rate because THEY want to villify it to justify unfair tax rates and to control and limit our own freedom of choice. Is this what we really want? I know I do NOT!

The can't smoke in public law means no smoking in enclosed public buildings like office buildings, restaurants, bars, churches, funeral homes, etc.. It doesn't mean no smoking in a public park, outdoor baseball game, etc..

They've had that law in MN for a while now.

You can still smoke in the casinos in MN which kinda sucks. If you're playing a machine anyone can sit down next to you and light up a cigarette, blow smoke in the area and there's nothing you can do about it except get up and leave.

The thing someone brought up about comparing car exhaust to cigarette smoking is pretty funny.

Why? Do you want to selectively use "health reasons" as an argument?

Let me ask you this. Would you rather be in a sealed garage with ONE car running for 3 hours or in a garage with 10 people chain smoking for 3 hours?

Let me ask you this. Would you rather be in a sealed garage with ONE car running for 3 hours or in a garage with 10 people chain smoking for 3 hours?

I had to choose one or the other and you'd be in the garage as one of the chain smokers I'd pick the ONE with the car running for 3 hours. I'd be dead in less than 3 hours I'm sure but it would be better than being in garage with you.

I had to choose one or the other and you'd be in the garage as one of the chain smokers I'd pick the ONE with the car running for 3 hours. I'd be dead in less than 3 hours I'm sure but it would be better than being in garage with you.

I had to choose one or the other and you'd be in the garage as one of the chain smokers I'd pick the ONE with the car running for 3 hours. I'd be dead in less than 3 hours I'm sure but it would be better than being in garage with you.

What got your twat in a knot?

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I had to choose one or the other and you'd be in the garage as one of the chain smokers I'd pick the ONE with the car running for 3 hours. I'd be dead in less than 3 hours I'm sure but it would be better than being in garage with you.

I could swear I read that you said you tried to quit before, but you'd rather smoke than breathe?!?

Am I going crazy & seeing things?!?

No. You are not going crazy. I have tried many times but this is one thing I just cannot seem to quit. I do love to smoke but hate the cost and what it does to my body though. Every time I take a drag it is like those York Peppermint Patty commercials. Each drag is like a little escape from the stress of the job, etc.