Appologetic's Bible - Atheist Nexus2017-12-14T02:50:42Zhttp://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/appologetics-bible?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A1147990&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'll have to look into this m…tag:atheistnexus.org,2012-03-08:2182797:Comment:18809242012-03-08T05:32:29.837ZVictoria Vannhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/VictoriaVann
<p>I'll have to look into this myself. Sounds good!</p>
<p>I'll have to look into this myself. Sounds good!</p> In the spirit of my last repl…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-04-24:2182797:Comment:12241672011-04-24T18:17:57.232ZMatt VDBhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/MattVDB
<p>In the spirit of my last reply to this thread, "<span style="text-decoration: underline;">There's enough good arguments you can make without having to use historical arguments which rely on oversimplification</span>.", here I am again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><em>"The bible is clear in that it states that it is meant to be taken literary and in its entirety."</em></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Really? Where does it say that?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Considering the Bible is simply a large collection of different books by…</p>
<p>In the spirit of my last reply to this thread, "<span style="text-decoration: underline;">There's enough good arguments you can make without having to use historical arguments which rely on oversimplification</span>.", here I am again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><em>"The bible is clear in that it states that it is meant to be taken literary and in its entirety."</em></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Really? Where does it say that?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Considering the Bible is simply a large collection of different books by different authors over almost a millenia of Jewish-Christian thought, "the Bible" never refers to "it" as to be taken literary and in its entierity. In fact the Bible never refers to itself at all, because as I said, none of the individual authors were aware that they were writing something which would later be regarded as Scripture.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Besides, the idea that the Bible is meant to be taken literary is a modern protestant invention and one that has little or no scriptural basis; much of the stories in the Bible are clearly symbolic and allegorical. It is unclear to us to what extent Jews and Christians of the time would have actually thought that -say- the miracles of Jesus literally happened and to what extent they saw them as symbolic ways of making a point.</p>
<p>But that it was not regarded as literary in its entierity is beyond dispute. You will have to go to great lengths to find any early Church Father at all who expressed any literalist belief. Most of them (thinkers like Augustine included) quickly gravitated towards the understanding that scriptural texts werecomposed of several layers of meaning (literal, moral, allegorical or eschatological); if one meaning did not make sense or seemed to not tell the whole story, they sought for meaning on a different level of interpretation. The Catholic Church uses these criteria to this day.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hope that reality check doesn't interfere with the polemical point you were making.</p> Hello Alli, One of the things…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-04-23:2182797:Comment:12234222011-04-23T21:20:55.921ZTobyTimehttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/LewisSimpson
Hello Alli, One of the things I do is try to get my religious friends and relatives to compare bible stories where they are told more than once so they can see the contradictions and inconsistencies. With it being Easter I just compiled a list of contradictions from the gospels about the resurrection.<br />
<br />
You can find it here:…
Hello Alli, One of the things I do is try to get my religious friends and relatives to compare bible stories where they are told more than once so they can see the contradictions and inconsistencies. With it being Easter I just compiled a list of contradictions from the gospels about the resurrection.<br />
<br />
You can find it here: <a href="http://arguingidiots.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-happened-on-easter-morning.html" target="_blank">http://arguingidiots.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-happened-on-easter-morning.html</a><br />
<br />
You can also look at the two creation stories, the two different Noah's ark stories, the two very different genealogies of Jesus, the Christmas stories and the two different deaths of Judas as a start. There is another good list of things to look at here: <a href="http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible5.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible5.htm</a><br />
<br />
I would not show them these web sites directly but look at them yourself and use that info as a guide when you study with them and let them discover some of the issues themselves, maybe with a direction from you.<br />
<br />
As for the evil in the bible, it's too abundant to ignore. I wish you the best! Or another tactic of these th…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-04-23:2182797:Comment:12230452011-04-23T16:04:22.264Zpaul babcockhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/paulbabcock
Or another tactic of these theist apologists in dealing with the bible contradictions or bits of absolutely horibly advice is to claim that it doesn't really say what it seams to be saying.<br />
<br />
For example, when it is pointed out to them that it appears to say that it is allowed to heat ones slaves to death under the right conditions, theists will respond with something like how that was meant for them there and then and that that bit is not meant to apply to us here and now. In taking this tact,…
Or another tactic of these theist apologists in dealing with the bible contradictions or bits of absolutely horibly advice is to claim that it doesn't really say what it seams to be saying.<br />
<br />
For example, when it is pointed out to them that it appears to say that it is allowed to heat ones slaves to death under the right conditions, theists will respond with something like how that was meant for them there and then and that that bit is not meant to apply to us here and now. In taking this tact, theists have to ignore that that contradicts what they have said the bible claims in every other instance. Here is something. The bible…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-04-23:2182797:Comment:12224032011-04-23T15:51:27.339Zpaul babcockhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/paulbabcock
Here is something. The bible is clear in that it states that it is meant to be taken literary and in its entirety.<br />
<br />
Taking the bible instead, mearly as a sourse of stories and moral guidance and not the literal revealed word of god begs comparisons to other stories and sources of morality. In these comparisons the bible seems to be lacking. One example is how the bible clearly has no problem with slavery. And it is loaded with bits of advise that are absolutely abominable. No reasonable person…
Here is something. The bible is clear in that it states that it is meant to be taken literary and in its entirety.<br />
<br />
Taking the bible instead, mearly as a sourse of stories and moral guidance and not the literal revealed word of god begs comparisons to other stories and sources of morality. In these comparisons the bible seems to be lacking. One example is how the bible clearly has no problem with slavery. And it is loaded with bits of advise that are absolutely abominable. No reasonable person for a second would think it at all reasonable to stone to death kids who sassed their parents, or people who work on the Sabbath or commit adultery, unless they were directly told to do so by GOD.<br />
<br />
Aesops fables and Shakspeare ate both considered stories with superior morals. Watch my show on YouTube enti…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-03-08:2182797:Comment:11490232011-03-08T03:07:47.359ZJames stillwellhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/Jamesstillwell
Watch my show on YouTube entitled" OpenAiratheist" . I'm an ex open air preacher/theologian/ apologist and I would like to help. Watch my video entitled" the 4 gospels exposed" and other episodes with your parents I think this will help you. Please don't be afraid to ask questions I'm also skilled in the original language of the new testament, church history ,theology ,textual criticism etc.
Watch my show on YouTube entitled" OpenAiratheist" . I'm an ex open air preacher/theologian/ apologist and I would like to help. Watch my video entitled" the 4 gospels exposed" and other episodes with your parents I think this will help you. Please don't be afraid to ask questions I'm also skilled in the original language of the new testament, church history ,theology ,textual criticism etc. Watch my show on YouTube enti…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-03-08:2182797:Comment:11486732011-03-08T03:07:07.627ZJames stillwellhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/Jamesstillwell
Watch my show on YouTube entitled" OpenAiratheist" . I'm an ex open air preacher/theologian/ apologist and I would like to help. Watch my video entitled" the 4 gospels exposed" and other episodes with your parents I think this will help you. Please don't be afraid to ask questions I'm also skilled in the original language of the new testament, church history ,theology ,textual criticism etc.
Watch my show on YouTube entitled" OpenAiratheist" . I'm an ex open air preacher/theologian/ apologist and I would like to help. Watch my video entitled" the 4 gospels exposed" and other episodes with your parents I think this will help you. Please don't be afraid to ask questions I'm also skilled in the original language of the new testament, church history ,theology ,textual criticism etc. Hi Alli,
May I make a sugges…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-03-07:2182797:Comment:11479902011-03-07T21:42:10.077ZAcesLuckyhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/AcesLucky
Hi Alli,<br />
<br />
May I make a suggestion? First, make sure you let your parents know that you love them no matter what they choose to believe (and isn't that true?). And truly, make it okay [ this is a statement about you, not about them ]. You can never have an easy-going dialog with them about these things until your own baggage is out of the way, never mind theirs.<br />
<br />
Second, buy for them perhaps one of the best books ever written on the subject ( and actually recommended by Sam Harris in the back of…
Hi Alli,<br />
<br />
May I make a suggestion? First, make sure you let your parents know that you love them no matter what they choose to believe (and isn't that true?). And truly, make it okay [ this is a statement about you, not about them ]. You can never have an easy-going dialog with them about these things until your own baggage is out of the way, never mind theirs.<br />
<br />
Second, buy for them perhaps one of the best books ever written on the subject ( and actually recommended by Sam Harris in the back of Letter to a Christian Nation, under Ten Books I Recommend ) so it's not just my recommendation.<br />
<br />
It's called "Atheism: The Case Against God", by George H. Smith.<br />
<br />
In fact, get two copies and read one yourself, if you haven't already. Right up front it explains what a god is and why it is impossible (this is before it gets to the Christian god). It's unoffensive and takes the time to be clear.<br />
<br />
In my opinion it is far better than something like "The God Delusion". George Smith takes the time to demonstrate why such things as omnipotence and omniscience cannot exist at the same time, and things of this nature that believers (and some atheists) have likely never thought of! It is a very enlightening and easy read.<br />
<br />
Get it for them, and suggest that they at least educate themselves on both sides before considering themselves informed. They might even agree.<br />
<br />
Peace If they are secular and human…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-03-07:2182797:Comment:11481582011-03-07T20:55:52.525ZProg Rock Girlhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/ProgRockGirl
If they are secular and humanistic (not religious fundamentalists), they're not getting conned by any charlatans, and you otherwise get along with them, maybe let them figure it out on their own. I'm usually suspicious if someone comes off as too eager to persuade me of something. It usually turns me off to it. If they were questioning their faith, most likely this "apologetics Bible" enables them to tell themselves what they want to hear, but faith like that can unravel easily...
If they are secular and humanistic (not religious fundamentalists), they're not getting conned by any charlatans, and you otherwise get along with them, maybe let them figure it out on their own. I'm usually suspicious if someone comes off as too eager to persuade me of something. It usually turns me off to it. If they were questioning their faith, most likely this "apologetics Bible" enables them to tell themselves what they want to hear, but faith like that can unravel easily... IMO, the best thing to do is…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-03-07:2182797:Comment:11479762011-03-07T19:27:39.596ZDennis Smithhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/DennisSmith
IMO, the best thing to do is to allow it to run it's course. The same critical thinking that brought them to where they are will eventually make nonsense out of what they are reading.
IMO, the best thing to do is to allow it to run it's course. The same critical thinking that brought them to where they are will eventually make nonsense out of what they are reading.