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Straight Outta Supertest: KV-85 with 100/122mm

as you probably know already, the KV-85 (new tier 6 tank, appearing in 9.3 after the split of current KV-1S) will have two alternative top guns: D-25T (122mm) and S-34 (100mm). Here’s how it’s going to look with the 100mm. Stats are for 100 percent crew (in brackets, nominal stats)

Why are you people so exited about this nerf?? The KV-85 still has the same 122 mm gun with the same alpha damage that made the KV-1S OP, the KV-85 will still 1 shot every tier 4 tank and a few tier 5′s and 2 shot tier 5 and 6 tanks like the KV-1S did, so the less DPM because of longer reload speed is useless

Because its not the alpha that’s the issue. Its the combination of alpha, DPM, gun depression, mobility, and armor that’s the issue. The KV-1S is too good at too many things. Imagine a T34 heavy with the mobility of a medium and better hull armor, that would be broken too. The new KV-85 won’t have the mobility, DPM, or gun depression. Rather than doing everything well or good it’ll be required to stick closer to brawling in cities with support to negate the terrible reload or ambushing. Much more like its T6 compatriot the KV-2 but with AP instead of HE (this is all referring to the 122, the 100 is a different beast entirely)

Considering the 105mm derps that the tier 5 mediums get have around 0.53, and can fairly reliably snipe out to a few hundred meters once aimed in…and then add in that it’s a proper cannon, not a derp gun, so higher shell velocity…

I see it pulling off nearly as much mid-range bullshit as it did before, nevermind short range :v

It never had British/American gun depression. British/American gun depression is -10 to -12. KV-1s has -8 gun depression which is more like German gun depression.
Still good nevertheless. The gun depression nerf on KV-1s’s makes me smile.

It still has only -3 gun depression with 100mm gun. It will be very difficult to handle, and if on uneven ground, brawling will be the last thing one would go for in that tank.

It still may be an effective sniper or a tank of choice in low tier clan wars, were you know exactly where you will fight and the terrain may call for high dpm / no gun depression tank.

But for randoms? Very skilled p layers MAYBE will keep it. But average “shoot twice and die” players will abandon it like it’s on fire. And good. It was that plague of 49% wr idiot clickers swarming random games that was a problem to begin with.

Oh come on guys! Did you realy think this tank would be properly balenced! We all hoped, but this is wg, and the kv85 was going to be op in way or another. And 170mm pen is VERY good for teir 6, the vk36.01H only has 130mm pen, and its 100mm amour (front- non weakspot) will not be bouncing this kind of penatration at anything less than an autobounce angle. It will still be op, but just for a different reason. And yep, the dmp also. OP

The best gun (at least for me) is the 88mm L56, good dmg, good rof, and not terrible pen, with the amour the tank has this fits its brawling playstile. The 75mm(s) just dont have enough punch for this tank. And 130mm pen isnt that bad. But 170mm at t6 is waaaaayy to much and basicly makes amour useless. And because the kv85 will have more mobility and dpm, it will just be too powerful.

Well the 100mm also has a -3 depression…. IMO there’s no need to nerf the 122mm in this way. They could just reduce its pen to 160, buff its accracy to 0.42 and give it an aim time of 4s. I mean, why would the 100mm have less pen than the 122mm? It had better pen historically….

They will never reduce the pen of the 122 as it wouldn’t just effect the kv85 but also every other tank that uses ie is3, image trying to grind for the bl-9 with an 160 pen stock gun, in a heavy facing up to tier 10s a good portion of the time, hardly anyone would play it, 160 is only barely adiquiet at tier 6 facing tier 8s, so only way really to nerf such an op gun a tier 6 is to reduce Acc, ROF, aim time and gun depression.

So you either mount 122 and still one shot 90% of tier 5 and lower tanks, of mount 100 and two shot everything while having monstrous DPM, and actually better soft stats (with exception of depression) than before.

Hey guys, remember it’s a fucking slug now, so no more pikaboo. To benefit from this DPM the tank will have to show itself like a real man, and even if it want to runaway with its backspeed it won’t be that easy. And the -3 depression will be really fun for the other tanks around.

Lololo ! Now the tank is even better ! Look at those 100mm stats, that thing will shred everything. 500 dmg every 15 seconds, thats even stronger than current 122mm haha. Oh im so happy, now KV1S AND KV-85 will be vastly OP, not just KV1S xD

Hmm, I so wonder how exactly you got that number?
-
Have you actually counted that in 99% of cases 1 shell is already loaded and in 15 second KV-85 can shoot three, 3 TIMES?
-
It is 750 damage done in 15 seconds NOT 500!!!

M18 and M36, for example, have a higher rate of fire than the M6. T25AT has a better rate of fire than the T29. Su-152 has a (much) better rate of fire with the D-25T than the IS. T49 and M10 have a better rate of fire with the M1A1 than the T1 Heavy.

At almost any point in the game, when a heavy and a TD at the same tier have the same gun, the TD will have a higher rate of fire.

Lets hope they’ll rebalance it after test. For a second there I was hoping that T6 battles will be less of a WoKV-1S. Looks like it will stay the same and the cancer will spread down to T5 which will be even more WoKV what before. Also the less armor factor on KV-1 is somewhat compensated by the autobounce angles on some parts and track uberarmor. Meeeeeeeeeeh.

The KV-1S’s DPM is the same as the regular KV-1 and T1 HT [assuming that the FTR figures accounted for crew/equipment, as they normally do].

The new KV-85 only has marginally better DPM than an M6 and still worse gun handling.

I’m not sure if you’re appreciating just how bad -3 gun depression is.
Chinese mediums can get away with it because they are fast, low to the ground, have excellent camo, and have fantastic alpha strike.

The KV-1S and KV-85 will also have the terrible gun depression only now…
They aren’t fast, they don’t have good camo, they’re tall in comparison, and their alpha strike is completely mediocre.

Its like someone took all the bad parts of the WZ-120 and left none of the good parts.

The gun depression is better on the M6, yes. The gun handling is not much different – the 100mm S-34 is just as accurate and aims two tenths of a second slower. Mobility-wise, if the KV-85 drives anything like the current KV-1S, the KV-1S will have a mobility advantage.

The DPM difference is a marginal difference but it is a difference in favor of the KV-85.

The ONLY thing the KV-85 has going against it is the gun depression. And that’s assuming the gun depression with the 100mm will actually be as bad as the gun depression with the 122mm.

In the notes between Malyshev, Beria, and Fedorenko, comparing the IS-100 to the IS-2, the following comment was made:

“Smaller size, leading to a roomier turret”

That leads me to believe it’s going to have more than -3* gun depression with the 100mm.

These are unpopular tanks, and for a reason. Just because you can out damage someone on an ideal terrain it doesn’t mean the enemy will meet you there and let you do your damage, standing perfectly still, right in the open or a perfectly flat city square. Unless you fight bunch of noobs that is. They could as well be back in their base, afk. In which case it doesn’t really matter what tank you or them drive.

And like I said, that’s assuming it actually has -3* gun depression with the 100mm. Which I’m actually in doubt of considering how much smaller the 100mm is than the D-25T. I’d actually expect to see -5* or -6* out of it.

The IS wit the first turret (IS-85) is getting -5* gun depression with the D-10T

So I highly highly doubt the same turret (essentially) is going to get -3* gun depression on the KV-85.

Are you sure? T1H and M6 has no side armour and derp guns/arty will have nice time on you; and both turrets are not good at hull down so limits the gun depression advantage…

Both US tanks lose to the KVs in terms of DPM and track traverse as well…..
If a tank only has a gun depression disadvantage and everything else is alright it’s no means a bad tank, it just less noob friendly….

Hope you’re not those moaned WZ-111 model5A is too OP and will make T110E5 look shit, which cause WG to change into the UP 113 at patch 8.3, I deeply hate those people who did it.

if they really want to do something right they SHOULD buff the VK 36.01H and give it a gun worthy of a heavy class tank, not this joke 8.8 132 mm. 171 mm pen WITH gold so THINK about it WG balance department, THINK!!! Soviets have enough guns and enough armor for tier VI already, did it really needed the 100mm alternative? I don’t think so, just leave it as it is with the depression nerf and the accuracy/reload nerf, no 100mm needed.

IS3 for ESL and TC’s and everything is good enough , KV1S Shouldn’t be able to also rule everything at tier VI . Give a bit more diversity, not only soviet power!!! Give americans/ brits and especially germans something to compete against it at tier VI without making them look like a joke. not to mention the VK 30.02D 8.8 REALLY REALLY needs a pen buff as well. 7.5 mm simply don’t have the punch in them, they are useless, you have to shoot 4-5 times to do the same damage KV1S does in one shoot and before your 3-4 shots are over they already reloaded and with laser accuracy ( not sure but seems like the new 100mm will be even more accurate than the old 122mm) high pen and slightly less alpha while higher ROF you don’t really “balance” anything. just trying to fool people that you do care. if you cared at all there would be more than ARL 44 heavy french with the same pen/alpha.

stfu!!! this tank only was good with the Konish gun back in the day it had 175 alpha damage. now it’s just a bad joke waiting to be killed and destroyed by everything and everyone!!! come on , enough with this only russian stronk tenks tc companies . every nation should have a role good enough to perform very well in TC’s.

ofc the shitties one of them all. i do not understand why they had to ruin this perfect tank (VK 36.01H) along with VK 30.01H and wait for longer than 1 year only to LIE about nerfing something obviously OP only because it’s soviet. so seriously , buff the penetration of VK 36.01H or at least give us our old VK 30.01H medium back!!! the “for historical reasons” also fails because the VK 36.01H was never a real tank, just an alternative that was scrapped in favor of the Tiger I so WTF is wrong at WG balancing department!?! Why the hell can’t they give a heavy tank a proper heavy tank gun!?! 132 pen with 8.8 is a joke the same way 135 alpha damage and 150 pen is an even bigger joke. 8.6 only gave russian tanks more hits and it ruined the so called accuracy advantage german tanks had so seriously do we really need to wait for 1 year again for a VK 36.01H buff?!?! Or do all players have to migrate to WT just to let WOT and WG know they suck ass when it comes to “rebalancing” a.k.a. nerfing to shit anything that’s not russian but performs.

Yes, we do get new city maps. But also existing maps are being reworked, not only to make them corridors, but also to make the terrain more bumpy or hilly even. That certainly isn’t going to work well with such extremely low depression as -3.

I think some people here are too readily dismissing how big a nerf that gun depression may prove to be but if it happens and I’m wrong and it is manageable … Then I’m very much looking forward to playing with the 100. If the manoeuvrability isn’t too badly nerfed it’ll make the T-34-85 kinda pointless though.

The gun depresion in a tank is allways an important factor…. in defensive, in an agresive vehicle is a lot less problematic specially when KV-1s/KV-85 armor could troll you a lot ummm any info about engine??? or general movility buff???

Ok i find this here
- weight increased from 43,97 to 46,5 tons
- the engine power remained the same, but hp/t got nerfed from 13,6 to 12,9
- forward/reverse maximum speed nerfed from 43/11 to 34/14

The question is if weight affec tank or depend of gun choice (think that 100mm is lighter and i doubt people use it a lot) and speed nerf… well it can retreat faster than hellcat, no coments (and well i doubt they dont buff speed to 40 in later patches i doubt devs leave it slower than T-150 or KV-2 not a lot sense).

Nominal top speed is pretty misleading anyway. Acceleration, turning and performance on rough terrain are much more important. Think of T49 v Hellcat. On paper Hellcat is faster but anyone who has played them know in most situations it certainly isn’t

Is going to be something fun… like the 88mmL71 with worst stats in Tiger II than in Tiger I.

Maybe the model for 100mm is ugly as the hell, i prefer a lot more 122mm model but well you know what gun is going to mount people.

The gun is better than the other similar guns in heavies tier 6…. over american 90mm in ROF and damage a lot over ARL F3 ROF and with more damage, VK suffer from lower pen and the old glorious 107mm is under it to.

I think one thing they can do is buff the 100mm damage by 10 and reduce ROF 1 hit per minute.

PD: the interesting point is going to be how affect gun depresion and aiming time to it… in a hit and run at close range is not a great problem…. but lets see when battle freezes.

God so many frustrated guys about kv1s over here. I was frustrated to see this OP tank running and dodging nerf every patch but hey it’s really a nerf like that.

I think It’s not worthly to talk about it for years, every man who have more than 50 IQ will figure out how bad it is to have less speed, less manoeuvrability, less accuracy/aiming time, (and hell -3 DEPRESSION! TEST THE CHINESE TANKS GUYS!) when he’ll test it on common test…

the 100 mm can still three shot tanks, and its does it in less time than the 122. the gun also apparently has better dpm than the Russian tier 9 meds, and that’s crazy! I’m talking tank companies here, and they can 4 shot all the t6 meds, except the vk 3002M(if it’s wrong, my bad, all I remember is that it had an m), and it can 5 shot heavies. and bc of its rate of fire, it does it in less time than the old 122, so…..either they made a mistake, or made the kv 1s a slow, no gun depression tank, but with a gun that’s op as ****

“and they can 4 shot all the t6 meds, except the vk 3002M(if it’s wrong, my bad, all I remember is that it had an m), and it can 5 shot heavies. and bc of its rate of fire, it does it in less time than the old 122″

Funny, because M6 or ARL 44 could always do that, yet whenever I pointed it out I got flamed…

The picture clearly says it has -3 gun depression. Well, it’s clear if you speak Russian or if you use Tank Inspector and know what values are where. If it is going to change, we don’t know. But that’s what they are working with at the moment.

The difference in penetration is only a minor one.
The difference in damage is negligible.
S-34 has 2.7 aiming time, not 2.5.
The 3° depression is not “being speculated”, it’s like that on the supertest. If you want to call S-34 the better gun because the depression might change, you should also keep in mind that the rate of fire, accuracy and aiming time can be nerfed. If the depression gets buffed, it’s highly likely other stats will be nerfed. The only reason they’re that good is to compensate for the atrocious gun depression.
Current KV-1S is only a tiny bit more mobile than M6. KV-85 is supposed to be less mobile than current KV-1S so it will be less mobile than M6.

“The guns are fairly close. The KV-85 will have higher DPM with higher alpha and higher pen with the same accuracy and 2/10ths of a second more aim time.”
Differences here are pretty much non-existent.
“It’s being speculated that the KV-85 will have -3* gun depression with the S-34, but I’m expecting it to be -7*, since the same turret (IS-85) has -7* gun depression with the D-10T on the IS.”
This is just your speculation contradicting current info, and as such bears no value.
“If the KV-85 is as mobile as the KV-1S is, that’s a clear advantage over the M6″
M6 is as mobile as current KV-1S. According to earlier info from supertest, KV-85′s mobility was slightly nerfed.
“KV-1S is known for it’s trollish glacis and turret. Both deceptively stronk for their thicknesses.”
Just like M6.
“The KV-85 is also a much smaller target than the M6, which is enormous.”
Correct.

So I have to disagree with your assessment: The M6 will stay superior.

what the fuck dude? you posted like 5 comments saying you are “expecting” it to have -6 depression or something. Are you blind or what? The post clearly says it has -3 both with 100 and 122mm gun. So unless they change it (which there is not much reason for them to do so) it remains as it is. Its like saying I am “expecting to get a free T8 premium suddenly in my garage for Christmas” – fucking unlikely)

And the -3 depression is basically a single factor that kills the tank for good, makes it playable maybe on Ensk, Kharkov and Himmelsdorf. Try to play chinese meds, especially 121, and see what im talking about.

Edit: Didnt have upper 2 comments updated, seems like Im late for the party :(

Holy crap that 100 mm is going to ruin the game at T4-T7 (I doubt it will be much of a threat to T8 tanks). Its sickening how much WG is catering to the typical Russian overinflated self-esteem with these kind of cheap tricks.

It’s the same turret as the stock IS. I seriously doubt they’d give it less gun depression than the D-10T in the same turret on the IS. Wargaming isn’t in hte history of giving below-historically-accurate gun depression as a balancing factor. They’ll give MORE than historically accurate gun depression as a balancing factor, but I can’t think of an instance where they’d give BELOW. If something has below historical (like the M36 GMC) it usually gets fixed.

So I expect to see the KV-85 with -5* or -7* of gun depression with the 100mm S-34.

” I can’t think of an instance where they’d give BELOW”
IIRC for a short while near the end of beta T29, T30, T32 and T34 had depression nerfed to -8°. Amusing how everyone went ballistic over that, yet now -3° is seen as “good enough” on Soviet tanks…

The KV-1S at Tier 5 is also going to have -3 degrees of gun depression. It is baseless speculation to think the KV-85 will get more gun depression, especially since it already has that value currently in supertest.

you dont seem to get it. The whole rebalance of the vehicle is obviously around the gun depression. Thats the main factor. If they changed it to even -5, whole so called “rebalance” would be gone and they would have to nerf the gun stats to compensate for it. If they change it more than +1 degree, the playstyle and tank handling in general changes siginificantly.

the 100mm looks really good, aside from the depression.
The vehicle already wants city maps, and has trouble with wide vision-centric hills.
This will increase the variability of the tank. Even better in cities, and even worse on hills.

The depression is pretty low. Compare it to the KV-13, which have -7 depression (correct me if i´m wrong). I played the KV-13, and it is a good tank. But you need to learn to handel certain situations because of that lower depression. When the KV-85 keep that -3 then a lot of people will run into problems with the old playstyle of the KV1-S. They need to look for good spots or expose their tanks longer to get a good shot.
I´m looking forward to that, because the actual KV1-S needed a bigger disadvantage. Maybe a few will ditch the KV-85 for another tank, but i think when you learn to handle that tank properly it is more satisfying and still can give you very good results. Even with that depression this is a strong tank.

Now I play a lot of shitty tanks. Like ALL of them.
I know the horrors of T-44 with a shitty D-25.
It’s NOT something you’d be satisfied with. Yes, you can be good at it. But having fun? Hell no.
And that thing still has more gun dep than KV-85.

IF those are the final values on the 100mm gun the tank will even be more OP as ever.
Currently theres no other choice but the 122mm gun which is pretty damn good already but hell check the stats of the 100mm on future KV-100 compared to the IS