Tuesday, June 2, 2009

"Missing the Bull's Eye... Originally." A reply to Brother Hamzah's comment on 31st May 2009.

Shalom Bro Hamzah,

Welcome to my blog. I hope it has blessed you in some way. I'm glad this blog has reached out further and further into cyberspace.

Let's get started... : )

To answer your question about the doctrine of "original sin", we must first understand who this doctrine is for and by whom. The doctrine of "original sin" is NOT biblical and it is part of the Augustinian theology created by Augustine of Hippo or widely known in the Catholic church as St. Augustine. You can find a pretty concise study on this matter here: http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/augh_os.html

Now, let's use the bible to intepret bible.Deuteronomy 24:16 says,"Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin."

Now, God is a just God, He will not go back on His words. Therefore this verse immediately nullify's Augustine's theology.

Another verse for reference would be, Ezekiel 18:20"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."

The primary argument for the doctrine of "original sin" comes from Romans 5:12-19. A nice article to read would be found here: http://www.tektonics.org/lp/origsin.htmlProbably the last 3 paragraphs sums it up.

Paul was simply saying that by one man's(Adam) "missing the mark" - [the definition in Thayer's for "Hamartia" - which is the original Greek word for sin], caused death to reign in the lives of mankind. The word "Hamartia" is a noun and amoral in nature. Meaning there is no connotations of emotions or moral values attached to it till the person does something, for example, cursing.Adam missed the mark when he believed Satan about eating the fruit and becoming like God. Adam was deceived. Adam was already like God! Because he was made in the image of God! That's the devil's ploy in our lives. To make us unsure and uncertain of our position with God and in God. The devil made Adam self conscious. Therefore being conscious of his position of missing the mark. When we are conscious of our shortcomings we are actually sin-concious, therefore being sin concious brings about death.Interestingly, through biblical accounts, we can see that before the flood and the Law giving, we can see that Adam's descendants up to Noah lived really long lives! Adam himself lived till 930 years! Why? Though death was the effect of missing the mark but Adam has not seen death around him. The consciousness of death was not a reality for Adam for a really long time. Even missing the mark will not cause death to come immediately if you're not conscious of it(death)!

But what i'm trying to drive at is this, Adam's missing the mark has brought about death in humanity because the federal head of humanity has chosen out of free will to be out of God's glory and protection. Adam being representative of mankind gave up the authority of man's divine position on earth and handed it over to satan. Therefore his progenitors will be born in a world that has already fallen out of God's glory. Thereby being born into the realm of death and not of eternal life.And as Paul mentioned in Romans 5:13-14 "13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,..."

Sin is in the world. But missing the mark is only taken into account for (the word used is IMPUTED) after the law giving (Mosaic Covenant). And as Paul mentions, nevertheless, irregardless of missing the mark NOT being taken into account for, death still reigned. And death here is both physical and spiritual. Therefore physical death would seem now, to be a natural cause of being born into this world. Not so much whether we missed the mark or not but because of the decision of our federal head Adam to live outside the glory of God, therefore we, the progenitors of Adam are born outside the glory of God too. But the imputing of judgement for missing the mark only came later after the Mosaic covenant was given.

But praise be to God, He saw all this coming. He prepared a solution and key for us to enjoy everlasting life and be back in His fellowship. And that is through the shed blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. As mentioned here in Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

We are all now justified unto life! So Bro, enjoy this life! You are now no longer condemned but made righteous before God not by your works but by the finished work of One Perfect Man!

Amen!

And to answer about my statement saying that i'm already forgiven even before i was born. I was making a chronological reference to Jesus' crucifixion 2000+ years ago versus me being born in 1977. I was born in the year 1977, therefore simply put, 1977 years after Jesus' crucifixion. His finished work then 1977 years ago has wiped out ALL sin for everyone on this earth forever! Past, meaning the prophets of old who saw YHVH as their redeemer and Savior, present, meaning the disciples that walked the earth with Jesus during His ministry and those that saw His Truth & Saving Grace, and future, meaning me born 1977 years future to the event of the crucifixion. Therefore, technically, my sins have been forgiven already, way before I was born! : )

4 comments:

Hamzah
said...

Peace to you too Brother Emmanuel!

You know what...I feel so honored to be featured on your blog! :) Really. In my years of doing part time in internet marketing, maybe as how you have put it..I have "missed the mark" somewhere I guess..hehehe, really, it is very rare to see my articles or comments being featured on the front page like this. Thanks also for replying to my comment bro. It shows that this blog is very well alive and kicking. Oh by the way, I really have to admit that this is one fine blog you have here.

Thank you brother Emmanuel for answering my question in a properly structured manner. Judging from it...I think I can safely say now that you're not a Catholic then ya. But maybe you can use this question of mine as your next material content that you can write about...

I'm getting a little bit kind of confused here. Maybe you can help me out with this. I saw you quoted Deuteronomy 24:16 which says,"Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin." Correct me if I'm wrong here bro, but is that personal accountability we are talking about here? If it is, maybe you can help me understand about Jesus' death on the cross. Which states that he has died for all of our sins?

I have also thought about what you've said about Adam being our federal head and has decided to live outside the glory of God and therefore we, the progenitors of Adam are born outside the glory of God too. My understanding maybe wrong (and that is why I am asking for your opinion here) but doesn't that just not being fair to us in relation to what has been quoted in Deuteronomy 24:16?

Thanks bro for your attention here :) Oh yes one more thing, regarding about your sins being forgiven before you're born. I understand your point of view there. Its technically speaking. But what if its tentatively speaking that if you (no offense here but I am just placing the possibilities of what could have happened)have not received him before anything unthinkable were to happen to you bro? i.e. death comes to you before you accepted Christ. Will you be saved in this case bro? Thanks for your attention to my comment here. Hope you will put it up in your next feature article ya.

it is irrelevant and illogical in a human sense to say that the egg came out first without even having the mother to lay it... isnt it the same thing? how could you be forgiven for something that you not even associated with it yet( not yet born ). spare the verses pls... just think logical. simple truth and reason. and thats what christianity is lacking

God is above what humans brand as logic. It is not local that a lady over 90 years can conceive. It was so illogicall that even she laughed when she was told that was going to happen. But it did. This was Sarah, the mother of Isaac. Then again, man has many fold reasons to laugh and say that we've misinterpreted the Scriptures again. All will be revealed at the last day.

the sheep young & old

Need only 1 Shepherd, it's Jesus

For His Glory, His Kingdom and The Coming King.

This blog will serve as a beacon of hope for all my malay brethren out there who are searching and need some assurance that God is there for you, God loved you first before we loved Him and the assurance of our place in Heaven.
John 14:1-4A prepared Mansion for you
1 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
The promise is eternal. We ARE assured of our place in Heaven.
Come to The Way, The Truth and The Life.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
My testimony to share: http://1flock1shepherd.blogspot.com/2007/02/one-flock-one-shepherd.html

Mark 4:39, "Shalom! Be still!"

And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

Fulfillment of Prophecy till the return of The Prince of Peace.

Ezekiel 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. And our Lord shall return, Ezekiel 44:3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.