Annabel wrote:Oh! Ok... I wanted to ask if you think that "crotch-shadowing" was sexual misconduct.

Or if hopping boobs are?

Not in the sense of precept violation, but hopefully this answers your question.

SN 42.2: Talaputa Sutta

On one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel's Sanctuary.

Then Talaputa, the head of an acting troupe, went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, I have heard that it has been passed down by the ancient teaching lineage of actors that 'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas.' What does the Blessed One have to say about that?"

"Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that."

A second time... A third time Talaputa, the head of an acting troupe, said: "Lord, I have heard that it has been passed down by the ancient teaching lineage of actors that 'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas.' What does the Blessed One have to say about that?"

"Apparently, headman, I haven't been able to get past you by saying, 'Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that.' So I will simply answer you. Any beings who are not devoid of passion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of passion, focus with even more passion on things inspiring passion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of aversion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of aversion, focus with even more aversion on things inspiring aversion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of delusion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of delusion, focus with even more delusion on things inspiring delusion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Thus the actor — himself intoxicated & heedless, having made others intoxicated & heedless — with the breakup of the body, after death, is reborn in what is called the hell of laughter. But if he holds such a view as this: 'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas,' that is his wrong view. Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb."

When this was said, Talaputa, the head of an acting troupe, sobbed & burst into tears. [The Blessed One said:] "That is what I couldn't get past you by saying, 'Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that.'"

"I'm not crying, lord, because of what the Blessed One said to me, but simply because I have been deceived, cheated, & fooled for a long time by that ancient teaching lineage of actors who said: 'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas.'

"Magnificent, lord! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has the Blessed One — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. I go to the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Community of monks. May the Blessed One remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life."

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

I think its about time that this thread is returned to topic so that members can memorialise Michael Jackson. This thread is not limited to those who are fans of Michael Jackson and all members should appreciate that there are differences of taste and opinion.

Posts that seek to argue for or against his reputed musical genius, wholesomeness, sanity or some other personal characterstic are considered off-topic and will be removed without warning. Members who repeatedly post off-topic material maybe subject to disciplinary action.

This is also a reminder that the terms of service, particular the guideline regarding right speech, is in operation and members who flagrantly breach the guidelines may attract moderator attention and disciplinary action. Thanks for your cooperation.Kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

As you wish. But,how, Ben are we to "memorialise" Michael Jackson, if we are not allowed to speak about his achievements?

Let's try the Dhamma aproach then.

Let us think of Michael Jackson, who sang songs that exposed greed as the source of suffering in songs like the earthsong.

How dolphins are drowning in nets which catch more fish than others. Greed causes sentient beings harm, and he pointed at that, appealeed to us to make a change and start with th man in the mirror. That was compassion and wisdom.

He reminded us of how elephant mothers and cubs are shotdown to steal their tusks. Greed. Theft. Cruelty, killing, precepts broken, and he showed that it causes suffering ad that we need to stop.

How rainforest trees fall everyday because our greed.

How ethnic minorities die in wars, because of aversion and hate.

How racial discrimination should be overcome because it causes suffering.

"It doesn't matter if you're black or white."

We had a person here whose lyrics contained what the Buddha taught, so, as Christopher::: said, here or elsewhere, we can make a choice, and either focus on the good, on the virtue ,on the inspiration, compassion and wisdom he had, or we can choose harmful negativity and point at his alledged failings.

I always chose to focus on the light he offered, which was obvious, in contrast to the alledged crimes he got aquitted of.

Hope that was a politically correct memorialisation, as I have no idea what should be other than to avoid mudslinging which is what I will always object to. I'd rather focus on the good he gave..

Which I always have, so I guess Ben's red letters were not adressed to me.

Is not so important anyways, if my words are understood by others or not.

'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas.'

If an actor reaches a huge mass of people and appeals to virtue, such as abandoning defilements, impurities, hate and destruction, if he shows them a better way to live, a way that reduces suffering, that teaches to have compassion with sentient beings, and how to tread lightly, then he is teaching dhamma,if you will.

He had good karma, because he was born beautiful.

"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not ill-tempered or easily upset; even when heavily criticized, he/she doesn't grow offended, provoked, malicious, or resentful; doesn't show annoyance, aversion, or bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is beautiful wherever reborn. This is the way leading to beauty: not to be ill-tempered or easily upset; even when heavily criticized, not to be offended, provoked, malicious, or resentful; nor to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.

And with that let's close this topic. Everyone has had their say on this topic. There clearly were some issues with his lifestyle and mental state and as duly noted, there has been some good and charitable activities done by MJ. Let him Rest in Peace as we rest this topic.