Location:

Name:

joe

Boat:

Independence

Joined:

Dec 2, 2005

Messages:

Likes Received:

15

I have pulled on the 4x. It's a beast and super light If that's what you are looking for its a great choice. I used the 3x at hurricane this November with great results Loved the fact that it is light as a feather

Location:

Name:

Bill Walsh

Boat:

Red Rooster

Joined:

Jan 12, 2006

Messages:

Likes Received:

134

What do you guys know about the phenix 700 4xh for 130lb string on cows? Any help is appreciated

Click to expand...

I had Monte from M & M rods wrap one up for my June heat. It did a superb job on a 298.7 fish mated with a Accurate 50T loaded with 130# spectra to 150# fluro. I purchased PaBay Titanium Turbo guides from acid rod.com and installed a roller tip top. Very light but very responsive, worked the fish up quick. Bends like the 770XXXH. My view is do not high stick the rod, especially in the end game...

Location:

Name:

Jamie

Boat:

2013 Ranger Z521 with 250 Merc.

Joined:

Aug 31, 2005

Messages:

Likes Received:

181

We did an interesting pull test on the Super Seeker 2 X 4, Super Seeker 6463XXXXH, Super Seeker 3 X 5, Calstar 770XXH, Calstar 770XXXH, Blackhole Cow Special 3rd generation and the new Phoenix 4X with some really interesting results. All the rods have approached the catching of big fish with what I felt are very different approaches.
Interestingly enough the Phoenix was as stiff as the 3 X 5 but with a bit different bend pattern and certainly a lighter and smaller diameter blank.

As Bill noted the Phoenix seems like a great stick but may be a bit more fragile than all the other rods noted. It may also be too stiff for many folks but I liked it a bunch. High sticking or accidentally bending in the wrong direction could result in breakage but we will see as the stick gets more time on the water. Hopefully, we will find that opinion is not correct but I would not bet on it.

My favorite cow stick is still the Super Seeker 6463 XXXXH as I just really like the bend pattern. Those loyal to Calstar, fishing cows, may really like the 770XXXH which I recommend over the 770XXH as I just like stiffer.

I will be testing the new Blackhole Cow special 3rd generation on my trip next month to see how it holds up and plan on fishing higher drags than usual.

Interestingly enough I am hearing from more and more folks, fishing the rail on ultra long range trips, they wish they had gone a bit stiffer on their rods. Once these folks developed their rail rod techniques they were just a bit under gunned on the bigger fish. These folks all felt they could have lessened the time on the fish with a stiffer stick and the rail.

The problem for most folks, as I see it, is trying to bend the stiffer rods in the shops, without benefit of a rail, are feeling the heavier duty rods are "Too Stiff" but for West Coast Rail Rodding I just believe you cannot judge the rod by pulling on it the old fashioned way. I have heard and read some folks are afraid they cannot bend the 3 X 5 but, again, they are not bending it on a rail with 25-35 pounds of drag. Of course the other concern is pulled hooks but I am just not convinced that is entirely a result of a stiff rod.

On other thing to note: for those in not as good a cardiovascular shape as others it could be very beneficial to try and finish a big tuna faster since you know you may run out of gas. Of course getting into better shape is always better than not but it is a little late for that sort of thing once on the boat. Though I do not recommend going to extreme drag settings I do think for these folks starting out with a reasonable drag setting and then pushing the lever forward to a bit higher drag than usual as soon as the fish settles in. As always the choices are angler specific so this is just my opinion for me. It really is fun testing out all the new products.

Jamie

if you are not here today you could not have been here yesterday and I NEVER want to hear.... You should have been here yesterday. When in doubt go fishing.

Location:

Name:

Jim

Boat:

Your boat!

Joined:

Jul 5, 2003

Messages:

Likes Received:

319

Just out of curiosity, when would you high stick a rail rod? I do remember this youtube video a ciouple of years a go of this guy stuffed in the stern corner, sitting on his rod with his fish going one way and the fisherman blowing up his Super Seeker CTSF63XXXH in 2 pieces.
When would you high stick a rail rod?
And I have to disagree, the Phenix 700X4H is closer to the 2X4 and no where near as stiff as the 3X5.

Location:

Name:

Bill Walsh

Boat:

Red Rooster

Joined:

Jan 12, 2006

Messages:

Likes Received:

134

Just out of curiosity, when would you high stick a rail rod? I do remember this youtube video a ciouple of years a go of this guy stuffed in the stern corner, sitting on his rod with his fish going one way and the fisherman blowing up his Super Seeker CTSF63XXXH in 2 pieces.
When would you high stick a rail rod?
And I have to disagree, the Phenix 700X4H is closer to the 2X4 and no where near as stiff as the 3X5.

Click to expand...

Usually when you need that last lift near a gaff. That is where both hands are on the grip, pulling back on the rod for the crew to get a shot.

Location:

Name:

Jamie

Boat:

2013 Ranger Z521 with 250 Merc.

Joined:

Aug 31, 2005

Messages:

Likes Received:

181

Hi Jim,

The Phoenix blank we got was ultra stiff but may have been a prototype. I will double check the designation from Phoenix. It may have only had XXXX or XXXXH on it so I assumed it was the 700. This particular blank was uber stiff. The Blackhole and the 2 X 4 were the softest of the bunch by far.

Jamie

if you are not here today you could not have been here yesterday and I NEVER want to hear.... You should have been here yesterday. When in doubt go fishing.

Location:

Name:

David Tang

Boat:

Intrepid

Joined:

Apr 4, 2003

Messages:

Likes Received:

650

The Phoenix blank we got was ultra stiff but may have been a prototype. I will double check the designation from Phoenix. It may have only had XXXX or XXXXH on it so I assumed it was the 700. This particular blank was uber stiff. The Blackhole and the 2 X 4 were the softest of the bunch by far.

Jamie

Click to expand...

I'll have my xxx on this trip.....doesn't feel that stiff but the that is subjective

Location:

Name:

Jim

Boat:

Your boat!

Joined:

Jul 5, 2003

Messages:

Likes Received:

319

The Phoenix blank we got was ultra stiff but may have been a prototype. I will double check the designation from Phoenix. It may have only had XXXX or XXXXH on it so I assumed it was the 700. This particular blank was uber stiff. The Blackhole and the 2 X 4 were the softest of the bunch by far.

Jamie

Click to expand...

I had Saltydawg Bill Havens install a couple of his Raildawgs on 700X4Hs and by his camparison, since I haven't built a 3X5, they were closer to a 2X4. Side by side with 770XXXH, which I have built, it is stiffer than the Phenix. JMO.

Location:

Name:

Jamie

Boat:

2013 Ranger Z521 with 250 Merc.

Joined:

Aug 31, 2005

Messages:

Likes Received:

181

I had Saltydawg Bill Havens install a couple of his Raildawgs on 700X4Hs and by his camparison, since I haven't built a 3X5, they were closer to a 2X4. Side by side with 770XXXH, which I have built, it is stiffer than the Phenix. JMO.

Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

Sorry for the confusion. I just checked and apparently the blank I pulled on from Phoenix IS a prototype and is the first of its kind. It is rated 80 - Unlimited and is a TRUE MONSTER of a blank yet is light weight and small in diameter. Once you get a chance to try this blank I believe you will agree there is no comparison to a 2 X 4 which I firmly believe is a fantastic 60 - 100 pound stick but not a true Cow rod for those who like and are able to pull hard against giant fish.

Jamie

if you are not here today you could not have been here yesterday and I NEVER want to hear.... You should have been here yesterday. When in doubt go fishing.

Location:

Name:

Jim

Boat:

Your boat!

Joined:

Jul 5, 2003

Messages:

Likes Received:

319

The Phenix Hybrid PHD700X4H is rated 80-200# and you are right, the guys at Phenix tell me that the Phenix Hybrid PHD700X3H, 60-130# is a better rod for cows because of its softer action.
However, I have a couple of 700X4Hs on the Royal Star 12 with an ATD30 and an Okuma 30 targeting cows so its only time to see what they come up with.

Location:

Name:

G

Boat:

50' Modutech: Reel Estate

Joined:

Nov 18, 2011

Messages:

Likes Received:

0

These rods are more "brittle" by design, less glass in them so YES they are lighter in weight, but if you are rail rodding is that truly a big factor. The Calstar and Seeker composite rods have the shock absorbtion and stretch of the older generation all glass rods combined with the superior recoil that graphite provides. In my freshwater bass fishing days I fished numerous prototype baitcasting rods made of high modulous graphite and even boron composite... the blanks were very light in weight (and more sensitive too), but they were very fragile as I broke several of them while fishing and in transport.

LR fishing is brutal on your gear so it remains to be seen if the lighter, thin walled blanks with less glass in them will hold up! IMO, the trade offs for lighter weight (more fragile, less shock resisitant, and less parabolic stretch and strength of the material when rolled into a tubular shape) is just not worth the risk over using a proven Calstar and Seeker glass/graphite composite blank that I know can take the abuse and provide serious bendo lifting power with stiffer graphite butt sections. My Seeker's & Calstars can fall out of the rack without me having a heart attack (don't like it when it happens, but I will still be able to fish them with confidence). Perhaps when Phenix offers a lifetime warranty on material deffects and workman ship is when I may try one (and most likely it will be a casting rod where a lighter weight is a greater benefit to the angler than say a heavy action cow rod resting on the rail).

Location:

Name:

Jim

Boat:

Your boat!

Joined:

Jul 5, 2003

Messages:

Likes Received:

319

These rods are more "brittle" by design, less glass in them so YES they are lighter in weight, but if you are rail rodding is that truly a big factor. The Calstar and Seeker composite rods have the shock absorbtion and stretch of the older generation all glass rods combined with the superior recoil that graphite provides. In my freshwater bass fishing days I fished numerous prototype baitcasting rods made of high modulous graphite and even boron composite... the blanks were very light in weight (and more sensitive too), but they were very fragile as I broke several of them while fishing and in transport.

LR fishing is brutal on your gear so it remains to be seen if the lighter, thin walled blanks with less glass in them will hold up! IMO, the trade offs for lighter weight (more fragile, less shock resisitant, and less parabolic stretch and strength of the material when rolled into a tubular shape) is just not worth the risk over using a proven Calstar and Seeker glass/graphite composite blank that I know can take the abuse and provide serious bendo lifting power with stiffer graphite butt sections. My Seeker's & Calstars can fall out of the rack without me having a heart attack (don't like it when it happens, but I will still be able to fish them with confidence). Perhaps when Phenix offers a lifetime warranty on material deffects and workman ship is when I may try one (and most likely it will be a casting rod where a lighter weight is a greater benefit to the angler than say a heavy action cow rod resting on the rail).

Tight lines!

Click to expand...

Boy I sure am glad there are more people with open minds than closed like yours. . .
The only way "stuff" gets proven is for people to fish them, I am glad there are a bunch of fishermen out there fishing new rods not thwarted by old school thought.

Location:

Name:

mikegooing

Boat:

none

Joined:

Dec 2, 2007

Messages:

Likes Received:

40

i love my super seeker 4x rods. i thought the 3x5 was to stiff ,in the shop. but i love to put the rod on the rail and go all in, with the drag, say around 5o pounds and use the rod like a crow bar. that is an incredible feeling. i love it when you break a big fishes spirit and the crew starts to panick because the fish starts to swim up. that only happens when you use the really heavy rods. thanks for the reminder jamie. i am going to rethink some of my planning for january 22nd.gooooooing

Useful Searches

Bloodydecks.com, the largest saltwater fishing forum on the net, with sport fishing reports from Mexico, California, Washington, Florida, Texas, Louisiana and beyond. Check out our San Diego Long Range fishing forum, hunting forums, Washington, Oregon and Hawaii fishing reports. Our Florida fishing reports forum is now online and thriving as well. Grab a drink, pull up a chair and enjoy all of the fishing reports provided by anglers like yourself.