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I feel sorry for both parties on this, but I feel the need to put some responsibility on rrfireblade, I feel like this is one of those things you'd look for when prototyping- he seems to have lost his edge.

I love my PTP cocker and would have loved to have another, but I figured I couldn't go without that kind of money for two years with minimal results again *wince*

Btw, I have always been under the assumption that Proteam Products were never up to AGD specs. There is always something "different" about them. Check out this thread to see what people were doing in 2001 about their Micromags/eMicro's. Check out RobAGD and BlackVCG comments about it. http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...-with-Pro-Team

Btw, I have always been under the assumption that Proteam Products were never up to AGD specs. There is always something "different" about them. Check out this thread to see what people were doing in 2001 about their Micromags/eMicro's. Check out RobAGD and BlackVCG comments about it. http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...-with-Pro-Team

You are right, some people never learn....

I have never had a problem with anything other than the 2009 Micromag (and obviously the 2013 Autococker) and I have owned over 100 markers over the years, purchased both new and used.

It's funny that you mention "AGD specs" being that the Emag frame was a joint effort between AGD and PTP, and that the "AGD spec" for unibody markers by AGD Europe was inherently tied to the PTP design. That thread was from 2001; the Emag frame only came into being in late 2000 - troubleshooting and field testing is a process that almost never ends before a product is released.

You have there two examples of markers where the tolerances were off, and there are thousands of examples of their markers between 1992 and 2004 that worked fine. There are enough variances with any production marker that there will be bad units that make it past QC without being caught... And it seems like they tried their hardest to fix it, and made it right in the long run.

Frizzle Fry: The most interesting part of that thread wasn't the two examples, it was the fact that RobAGD and BlackVCG (AGD Techs from early 2000s) had so many issues with Micromags that they didn't even want to bother with them anymore. I could only imagine how many mags they worked on back in the day....

I'm not trying to troll PTP by any means; I actually really like a lot of their products. It just frustrates me that there are so many people willing to pre-order parts only to have them come out with crappy tolerances or not come out at all... The "people" who never learn are the customers, not the manufacture.

Btw, I have always been under the assumption that Proteam Products were never up to AGD specs. There is always something "different" about them. Check out this thread to see what people were doing in 2001 about their Micromags/eMicro's. Check out RobAGD and BlackVCG comments about it. http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...-with-Pro-Team

You are right, some people never learn....

I just want to nip this in the butt. The thread you linked to is about the MicroEmag and BlackVCG provided 1 example of an Micro RT valve that needed a different length pin.

I currently own 14 Micromags and have owned/ worked on countless more. The classic Micromags DO NOT HAVE TOLERANCE ISSUES. You can take any working AGD classic valve, drop it into any working classic PTP Micromag and have a working marker.

With that said, it's very sad to see the 2k9 and 2k13 projects going so awfully.

MAGgot: I felt like the thread had more information than just the eMicro in question from the OP. First and foremost.... Pro Team actually swapped the broken eMicro for a Tequila fade Emag. It sucks that they had to do it, but they did the right thing in the end. So kudos to them. The reason why I posted the thread was..

Originally Posted by BlackVCG

MicroMags just have sloppy tolerances. I don't like the Benchmark frames that come with them and I don't like the way the body is designed. Almost every Mag I worked on was a PTP MicroMag. We had one MicroMag RT that needed a .765" pin because it was too reactive with any pin that was shorter. This was more than likely due to bad tolerances in the mainbody. They can be okay guns, but I'd much rather have to work on an AGD product.

As soon as I saw the 2k9 issues I immediately thought of this thread. I remember reading it and was shocked that two knowledgable technicians said the same thing about the tolerances of a micromag. Since I live in the archives of AO, its hard to compare 2013 to 2001. It is second nature for you guys to troubleshoot the issue now, but back 10+ years ago people didn't know what was going on.

O ya, it also doesn't help that there are MicroMag knockoffs still floating around...

I would love to outline my thoughts on the issues of Micromag tolerances, eMicro on/off pins sears BODY SPACERS, the 2k9ish mag , and the great recall of 2013, but there seems to be a lot of MicroMag fanatics on the forum right now

By the way, let me clarify something. I have several Micromags. Gen 1 (short fixed barrel), Gen 3, 2000 and a 2K9. I honestly never had a problem with any of them (even though I didn't really use the 2K9 but the valve fit all right). I also have several other accessories from them, be it barrels, trigger frames, expansion chambers etc. What bothers me so much is how they screwed up their own name. I don't think anyone should be blamed other than themselves, especially Tracy, who had such a childish reaction when people started complaining about the products they didn't receive for a couple years and, afterwards, how she never returned anyone's money for the problem they caused. Because of that, I will never buy anything new from them again. Not only it's not worth the price they charge, they also don't deserve my business any more. And that's my opinion, only.

It's awesome that they used rails to attach the feed tube thingy. Picatinny would have been nicer, but whatevs.

They should have attached the feed neck via the exact same mechanism (and that's where the extra beefy Picatinny would be useful). The part could be threaded again, although really the whole idea of (threaded-)feednecks-as-structural-component just needs to go away. Maybe someone will figure it out in the next 30 years. Or not.

See also: SA-17, Empire Trracer, TM-7, TM-15, etc.

Bad design right in that area, and worse execution.

Missteps will happen; it's the response that counts. So now we get to see how PTP responds. Again. As if we needed another example.