#WWJVD: The High Costs of Education

Hey fellow ATSers, I'm back with a new topic of discussion: the incredibly high cost of education.

College graduates today are leaving school with mountains of debt on their shoulders. Most leave with an average of up to $30,000. Now, colleges like
Stanford University are starting to offer free tuition for qualifying students. I weigh in on the high costs of a college education in this edition of
#OffTheGrid.

Do you think college educations costs are too high? What could we do to improve the situation? Let me know what you think and I'll weigh in on some of
your comments.

I personally felt college was kind of pointless....Luckily I profited going to college since the military paid for it all and I did ROTC...so for free
college there is an option. Plus I had a scholarship of some kind to help a little. But even with all that I felt I could have learned 90% of it on
my own. The only real advantage was meeting some really good professors and as my degree was in science I had access to a lab and other tools that id
have never had the funds for on my own.

After I graduated I worked in a field that didn't need a degree anyway. The oddest part about that was they viewed me as a threat for promotions.
The place I worked used to have a policy stating a certain position (promotion) required a BA Degree. Well no one there ever had one so it was always
over looked. Obviously when I read this I jokingly stated "looks like im the next boss". The policy was then changed to you " you have to be working
towards a BA degree" which included taking one course at a Junior College. It was a bit depressing seeing that my degree was working against me.

Another thing I am seeing is colleges offering these weird degrees based on life experience. Lets say you did some career for so many years...they
will turn that into 60 hrs of general education. Now you still need to take 60hrs of 3000 or junior level classes or above for a degree but they have
essentially cut a BA degree from 4 yrs to 2 yrs if you have work experience. Personally I think college should only be 2 years if you dump all the
general ed classes but this was also another slap in my face since I had to grind it out while others are getting a free pass to the more fun classes
and only at half the time investment.

I think college should only be considered if you 1) really really know what you want to do....2) whatever that is is something technical or valuable.

For example: getting a degree in history does nothing but gives you a paper saying you have a degree. You could learn about anything in history
completely on you own. Hell go buy a degree from a non accredited school that offers about nothing to get a degree...how many employers really check
that? It is not illegal nor is it lying.

If you want something in lets say ... science or engineering..then ya...A college is the place to go and you will make great contacts which may be
able to help you move up into your masters or doctorates or find a job.

I also tried grad school and seeing it was just the same as undergrad but more of the same bull# I decided to take a job instead. Oddly I was making
more money than anyone in college I knew doing a job that didn't require a degree.

Damn I talk a lot.

edit on 23-4-2015 by rockpaperhammock because: (no reason given)

Edit: one more thing while im here. I applied for the CIA some time back and what was interesting back then was when you went to pick a college in
the college tab..it only showed the best schools...otherwise you had to click "other". So even going to college any more may not fully get you what
you want if it isn't a top school.

edit on 23-4-2015 by rockpaperhammock because: (no reason given)

Edit: Damn it I didnt even answer you...yes cost is way too high. Ill put it into comparison with two friends of mine. Friend 1 went to a really
good school for 4 years costing him 160k total for an education in computer science at a great school. He landed a decent job but nothing that
amazing. Friend 2 installed floors making about 35 to 40k a year long ago while living with his parents. He spent some money on toys but saved quite
a bit. AT the 4-5 year mark friend 1 was 160k in debt while friend 2 had about 50kish saved and was a journeyman in his field allowing him to start
his own company and do side jobs.

I think that the high cost of college and the huge debt burdens students have after graduating is just a symptom of the whole education system in this
country being broken. There are those who think it should be free, and while that's a noble idea I don't think it's going to solve our problems.
Mostly because then the cost of college education would be passed on to the taxpayers.

After graduating in 2013 with a degree in music and currently attempting a masters and teacher license I can tell you the education system stinks from
the bottom up. We spend tons of money on education to ensure that our children get good jobs. I mean that's the whole point of education right? To
be a functional member of society, to earn a good living?

How come then a person with a High School degree could make a decent living back in the 1950's but now you can barely qualify to flip burgers? The
material really hasn't changed. In fact it has gotten better in some respects. How many High Schools were teaching calculus back in the 1950's?

Jesse, what I think is wrong is we have been sold the lie that higher education equals a middle class job - no matter what. That's not true, maybe
it used to be but not anymore. The truth is you don't need a college education to do most jobs, in fact college gives you very little preparation
for the real working world. Personally I would have been better off not going at all and working my way up through a business or something, gaining
actual relevant work experience. I think the best thing we can give our kids is freedom to choose their path in life and the opportunity to do so.
Not sentencing them to 20 years of school.

Having only a solid 4th grade education (sorry, my grammar probably sucks here) I've been able to own 2 companies and for the most part, self trained
at what I wanted to do in life. At the age of 39, moved to a foreign country, wife started her company and although she is college educated, her line
of work does require a higher lever of education, so yes, in one way one needs to be educated more. But using common sense and your wits, in most
cases this will keep a roof over your head and feed your family. I truly wish I was better educated, but I'm not.

Math, reading, spelling and good English skills should be focused on in schools to meet any child's level to learn it. Some can learn, some can only
go so far. Schools need to face it and then focus on the talents of the students. Whether it be in the trades, arts or just plain survival skills
including on being self employed. "Business skills", it's a winner.

I make six figures without having a college education ( I had a few semesters of community college and dropped out).
In my line of work certifications stand for a lot. Someone with drive and intelligence can utilize those as means to a good career and living. I also
have many friends that work for some type of trade and make equally good livings. ( I'm in California so wages are jacked higher than most areas due
to cost of living).

College and trade schools can be equally expensive though, especially if your looking at the brand association of the college name as a decisive
factor in where to attend. Whether you want just the knowledge or status association and the knowledge should play a big part of the decision. You can
get a great education at a community college if you are there to really learn. There is a unique bit of adolescents that comes exclusively with the
college experience, and you can't get it any where else , there's value in that to a lot of people. I know some who are fine with the cost just for
the experiences during that portion of their life.

I don't think college is worth it for everyone, and I think that it's pushed not for the knowledge students acquire but for the economy it
encapsulates. There are plenty of ways to earn a good living if you take the time to learn, but that's not something most people ever grasp. It's
the willingness to learn that really matters most. To really improve the collegiate system and to bring down it's cost I think we need to educate
the populace to modern society. Stop them from thinking things can only be learned from a select group, and reduce the number of people attending over
all to create far less demand for the system.

Honestly unless your trying to be a doctor or scientist, you're not going to learn anything in college you couldn't readily learn on your own
nowadays.

The U.S. doesn't value education. We would rather spend trillions on the military and overseas bases, instead of investing it in education.
Incompetency and a lack of education will only weaken the economy, reduce innovation and diminish world leadership.

Universities are going to price themselves right out of the market because most Americans will not be able to afford it anymore. There should be a
law preventing landlords from gouging outrageous rents from students. The new thing among real estate owners is to buy a house near a university
(doesn't matter if it's a dump), and than charge 3 to 4 times the going rent by packing college students into it. The same house may rent for 1,000
dollars a month for a single family, yet when you rent it to students they charge $1,000 a head!!!

I believe that if you (meaning the student) are not going to college for a specific targeted career path (Doctor, Nurse, Pharmacist, Chemical
Engineer, Accountant) that has guaranteed employment prospects and realistic expectation of a specific pay band then you (student wasting money) are
an idiot.

Don't go 30K - 50K in debt for a crap degree that will get you a low wage job period.

My kids had those choices. Go for something that guarantees a 10 year ROI (return on investment, debt paid in 10 years with money to spare) or don't
waste time as anyone can spend a few months and much much less money getting Cisco Certifications and make 40-50K easy within 2 years.

College tuition is laughably high because most "higher education" is a scam to employ "teachers" and keep "school administrators" fat and happy at
your expense.

If you want to "fix" the education in this country... Sh1tcan all the BS elective credits necessary for a "certified degree".

If you are going to be a nurse, you should take specific nursing classes and not a bunch of useless crap for credits in subjects that are either a
joke or you will never use in your career. The whole purpose of these "classes" not related to your career are financial for THEIR benefit and not for
your educational benefit.

The problem with making education "free" is that "someone" will end up paying these ridiculous costs (as the schools will boost their prices) and of
course we will then have tons of idiots taking useless classes at high cost to the taxpayer.

We will have a flood of idiots blowing tons of tax money on useless classes and useless degree programs which will not get them a job. I have NO
problem with free or subsidized classes for careers in demand with public service (example: You go to medical school free, you are required to pull 8
hours a week at the VA or free clinic for 10 years, something along those lines).

Do not provide free college for idiots to take useless classes so the "educational industrial complex" can expand. Any free tuition, hell even
subsidized tuition should be in the form of specific targeted areas of need only which will definitely lead to a career.

Now these same idiots complaining they have a "degree" and can't get a job can now be examples for the next generation of idiots to get their useless
college degrees off of someone elses buck (and yes, it has to be funded somehow). This is probably a jobs program for more Teachers with useless
degrees that can't find a job to teach new idiots useless topics so they cannot find a job also).

The U.S. doesn't value education. We would rather spend trillions on the military and overseas bases, instead of investing it in education.
Incompetency and a lack of education will only weaken the economy, reduce innovation and diminish world leadership.

Universities are going to price themselves right out of the market because most Americans will not be able to afford it anymore. There should be a
law preventing landlords from gouging outrageous rents from students. The new thing among real estate owners is to buy a house near a university
(doesn't matter if it's a dump), and than charge 3 to 4 times the going rent by packing college students into it. The same house may rent for 1,000
dollars a month for a single family, yet when you rent it to students they charge $1,000 a head!!!

While I agree in most part...... the USA spends more per student in grades 1 thru 12 than any other country (last time I checked). The American way is
to always throw money at a problem and hope it goes away.

Until discipline is re-established in a class room and teachers are there who actually want to teach, not to mention, worth while text books which can
excite a student and make them want to learn..... IMO for get it getting any better. College is a simple box to be checked for some careers no matter
if the job has anything to do with the major at university.

But, if I had it to do over, I'd have gone into a trade school instead. Now, my expensive degrees are just to get my foot in the door for a job
making way less than I was led to believe while being sold the idea of college.

That's the system we've created. People want to hire what they deem the smartest person for the job. Sometimes, that's the person with the most
education. It's not always true.

You can be street smart. I only went to high school, yet I taught at Harvard. Isn't that amazing? I have no degrees, yet I'm a Harvard Fellowship
Professor.

The point is that you can educate yourself. You don't always have to go to school to be smart. If you're street smart, you can be a success.

originally posted by: asmall89
I think that the high cost of college and the huge debt burdens students have after graduating is just a symptom of the whole education system in this
country being broken. There are those who think it should be free, and while that's a noble idea I don't think it's going to solve our problems.
Mostly because then the cost of college education would be passed on to the taxpayers.

After graduating in 2013 with a degree in music and currently attempting a masters and teacher license I can tell you the education system stinks from
the bottom up. We spend tons of money on education to ensure that our children get good jobs. I mean that's the whole point of education right? To
be a functional member of society, to earn a good living?

How come then a person with a High School degree could make a decent living back in the 1950's but now you can barely qualify to flip burgers? The
material really hasn't changed. In fact it has gotten better in some respects. How many High Schools were teaching calculus back in the 1950's?

Jesse, what I think is wrong is we have been sold the lie that higher education equals a middle class job - no matter what. That's not true, maybe
it used to be but not anymore. The truth is you don't need a college education to do most jobs, in fact college gives you very little preparation
for the real working world. Personally I would have been better off not going at all and working my way up through a business or something, gaining
actual relevant work experience. I think the best thing we can give our kids is freedom to choose their path in life and the opportunity to do so.
Not sentencing them to 20 years of school.

I didn't know you were a Harvard Fellowship Professor. It just goes to show that you don't have to go through the education system to achieve
success. I agree with what you've said about street smart. That's something that's very valuable and something that can't be taught in schools.

I have two degrees, a bachelors and a master in the tech field. I got them on the premise that more education meant moving higher up the ladder of
success. Wow, was I wrong. It all matters on who you know and whether you are a high achiever, education is secondary.

An education can get your foot in the door if you don't know anyone, but advancement is another thing.

Also, I spent 6 years getting an education and many jobs require certification, which can cost thousands. IMO, certifications are a cash cow for
companies that provide the testing and companies that provide the prep courses. The companies that test require a 80% score to pass and the test are
rigged to fail 80% of the people taking the tests. So, if you pay the fee and take the test five times, probability shows you will have a 50% chance
of passing anyone of those five tests.

I've recently found access to a plethora of classes ranging in all studies made available to the public! We can thank the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology for that information ! All courses can be found at the link posted at the end of this thread. No, taking these courses doesn't provide us
with a certificate or a degree, but yet it allows the steps in being able to do so. It's up to you, to decide what you're willing to do with this
information provided!

Education has a big role in this society now. Without education, we can't make new things. I am a a writer from
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In order to make education affordable and available to everyone, the top universities should allow downloadable curriculum, course materials etc and
there should be 'global faculty' who can offer discounted teaching and guidance.. this way students would benefit from freedom of choosing the
courses they want and they can apply that skill and knowledge to real life scenario..This will definitely cut down the administrative and other cost
they have to pay for schools.

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