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Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Oh I see. Well that seems selfish enough. It's not an institutional problem because you've never been effected by it.

No, that isn't why. It's not an institutional problem because you cannot identify any specific harm to anyone's else's marriage. Not a single, specific, tangible harm.

That's because the "institution" of marriage is not a specific, tangible thing. It's a concept, and it's a concept that means different things to different people. You can't cause measurable harm to a concept. Someone else's divorce has no effect on my marriage. Now apply this line of thinking to same-sex marriage.

This is one of the many, many fundamental flaws in the arguments made by the anti-equality side. They simply can't wrap their heads around the idea that same-sex marriage doesn't harm them or anyone else. They personally disagree with it, therefore it must harm something, right?

If you can't identify any specific harm caused to anything, then why on earth should I believe there's a problem?

Last edited by Deuce; 08-29-14 at 12:28 AM.

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Originally Posted by Deuce

No, that isn't why. It's not an institutional problem because you cannot identify any specific harm to anyone's else's marriage. Not a single, specific, tangible harm.

That's because the "institution" of marriage is not a specific, tangible thing. It's a concept, and it's a concept that means different things to different people. You can't cause measurable harm to a concept. Someone else's divorce has no effect on my marriage. Now apply this line of thinking to same-sex marriage.

This is one of the many, many fundamental flaws in the arguments made by the anti-equality side. They simply can't wrap their heads around the idea that same-sex marriage doesn't harm them or anyone else. They personally disagree with it, therefore it must harm something, right?

If you can't identify any specific harm caused to anything, then why on earth should I believe there's a problem?

Trouble is you can ask the question a million ways and there is still a deafening silence on 'what harm'.

Goes back to make basic point, nothing to do with rational argument, law, morality..all down to some mystical religious dogma.

...and if someone would actually like to answer (finally) what harm, I would love to hear and debate

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Originally Posted by Ceist

I'm constantly amused at so-called "Christians" who love to throw around cherry-picked verses to bash people they don't like, but don't have a clue about the cultures in which the biblical texts were written..... or have even read the whole Bible for that matter.

Yes...the 'other sinners', like adulterers and fornicators and even murderers locked up in jail...all allowed to marry/remarry. There is no outcry...never was...there are no movements or campaigns to prevent them from marrying...never were.

However SSM? For which they cant even show any harm? (unlike adulterers and murderers) Gotta stamp that **** out because....um, wait...because?

Originally Posted by Bucky

Welfare is a bad thing? It is essentially free money. It is not that bad.

Originally Posted by Bucky

I look at abortion the same way I do Pineapple Pizza.

Originally Posted by applejuicefool

A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

Originally Posted by Navy Pride

You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.

Originally Posted by Wessexman

See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .

Originally Posted by CriticalThought

Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.

Originally Posted by ernst barkmann

It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

I was sat here at home in Thailand reading this whole thread again and got engaged in conversation with my wife and some friends who were visiting. It was amusing and telling the incomprehension they had over why this was even an issue, that I or anyone else would be concerned about this.

Thailand is fairly conservative country on many issues, but gender identity, homosexuality is on their 'so what' list of things to care about.

I tried to explain the religious moral arguments only to be greeted with howls of laughter.

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Originally Posted by Tonic

I was sat here at home in Thailand reading this whole thread again and got engaged in conversation with my wife and some friends who were visiting. It was amusing and telling the incomprehension they had over why this was even an issue, that I or anyone else would be concerned about this.

Thailand is fairly conservative country on many issues, but gender identity, homosexuality is on their 'so what' list of things to care about.

I tried to explain the religious moral arguments only to be greeted with howls of laughter.

I knew there was a reason I liked living here!

That's cool dude! The "religious moral argument" is weak anyway. If this issue offends someone's religious sensibilities, then like anything else, they ought not engage. Just like we resent the notion of Muslims projecting their beliefs, Christians shouldn't be doing it either.

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Originally Posted by Montecresto

Seems too bazaar that it escapes people that divorce harms the institution of marriage. In fact it destroys it, one marriage at a time.

Well, the marriage in question was already destroyed. The divorce isn't the disease, it's a symptom. And "the institution" isn't a thing that can be harmed. My institution of marriage is just fine, thank you.

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Originally Posted by Deuce

Well, the marriage in question was already destroyed. The divorce isn't the disease, it's a symptom. And "the institution" isn't a thing that can be harmed. My institution of marriage is just fine, thank you.

Well I'm delighted for you. In 1900, the divorce rate was 3%, and it is now at 50%, if you can't see the damaging effects of divorce on a society that breaks up the family structure at that pace, I can't help you. But I can assure you that gay marriage will cause no such harm.

Re: Do you support legalizing gay marriage?

Originally Posted by Montecresto

Well I'm delighted for you. In 1900, the divorce rate was 3%, and it is now at 50%, if you can't see the damaging effects of divorce on a society that breaks up the family structure at that pace, I can't help you. But I can assure you that gay marriage will cause no such harm.

It isn't actually divorce though that is the problem. The reason that it was so low back then mainly because women had very little rights or options, particularly outside of marriage. A man in 1900 could have his wife involuntarily committed to a mental institution for however long he wanted (if he or some other male relative didn't come to get her, she was basically stuck in there) just for things like not doing housework or talking back to him.

Husbands ridding themselves of wives via the psychiatric institution was still enough of a problem in the 1930s that the first woman in Maine's legislature, Gail Laughlin, authorized a bill penalizing husbands for bringing false testimony in the involuntary commitment hearings of their wives. I worked with a patient who in the 1960s had been brought to the hospital by her husband. The chief complaint listed on the admitting record was: "Patient does not do her housework."

We traded the illusion of happy marriages for people actually being able to choose to leave a marriage they aren't happy in, which is a good thing. Divorce itself is not an issue. We need to work more on getting people to actually be more responsible in who they decide to marry and have children with to begin with. We need to work on getting people to think about what they want in life and being able to communicate those things to their potential future spouses/mates. We need to work on getting people to compromise on small things and work on big things and be able to recognize if a relationship really isn't going to work out or if there are some issues that can be dealt with with work, possibly even outside help. But divorce in itself is not a bad thing. Bad divorces, particularly those with children involved, those are the things we need to work to reduce.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt