Question: Why should you stick to sabotaging the Affordable Care Act at the national level?

Answer: You can only blame Obama if everyone suffers. On the other hand, if Missouri cannot or will not provide decent care while people have no problem across the border in Illinois, Iowa, Arkansas or even Kentucky, it will be pretty easy to figure out who screwed up.

I wish that real people did not have to suffer in order for these idiots to find out why you do not cut off your nose to spite your face.

Speaking of dumb (really, really dumb), a town official (and retired police officer) in Maine is dumbfounded that his three words posted to the world, rhyming with “Toot The Digger,” could possibly be taken “out of context.”

“In three words, this statement incites violence to the level of murder, advocates for the assassination of a United States president, and uses what is likely the most deplorable racial slur in American history — all in one short sentence; all forming such a hateful statement and sentiment,” Town Manager Andrew Gilmore said in a written statement Tuesday. Source

One gets the impression from the article that a change of pants was in order after he was visited by authorities.

I wish that real people did not have to suffer in order for these idiots to find out why you do not cut off your nose to spite your face.

Assumes facts not in evidence, viz. that these assmunches give a damn about what their constituents need, want, or think, and that they’d have the moral and intellectual wherewithal to come around to a better way of thinking even if they did.

@Ash Can: I don’t think that they care about their constituents. I think they care about their jobs. They will certainly come up with some grand Obama conspiracy against Republican-led states to cover their ass, but the written record is pretty clear.

I’m positive that over the coming years, Republicans will be able to convince themselves that Obamacare is a failure, anyway. Healthcare is so complex that there will be all sorts of flaws to point at and say “See? Failure!”

But there’s a much simpler explanation for why they’ll continue to try and sabotage it. Because it’s Obama’s.

It seems to me that the assumption these jokers are making is that the residents of their states aren’t going to be paying all that close attention to what’s going on in neighboring states. When in doubt, blaming the socialist Kenyan in the WH is probably going to resonate with them a little bit more substantially.

But seriously, it’s amazing that these people, who claim to be all about states’ rights, are turning down money for Medicare and insisting that the federal government run the exchanges.

DK had an article yesterday that said that because the ACA expected governors to at least do the right thing for their citizens, it didn’t budget any money for the federal government to advertise the new exchanges that will be set up in states where the Republican governors refuse to. They didn’t think they’d have to run exchanges for 40% of the country.

@NotMax: Every time I see one of those stories, I am reminded of the teenage girl who wrote of GWB on LiveJournal “Will no one rid me of this troublesome President?” and got a visit from the Secret Service.

Backing off to the alternatives Marsters now says he should have used might not have saved him from that visit.

This, unfortunately. We’re talking about people who collect SS and disability but are Tea Partiers, slap “Union Yes” stickers all over their work trucks but vote GOP, call their new in-state ACA insurance programs “better than Obamacare,” and rail against the government to keep its hands off their Medicare. These folks aren’t known for their brains, and the pols know it and take advantage of it.

Having said this, I’m certainly heartened by the recent Democracy Corps poll (h/t LOLGOP at LGF) showing that seniors are becoming increasingly disenchanted with the GOP. And I’d definitely love to see the people of Missouri put two and two together like Tim thinks is likely. I’d love to see my suspicions about how easily the voters in Missouri can be misled proven false.

@Belafon: I complained the other day on, I think, one of the Atlantic comment threads about how the existence of the exchanges isn’t going to be widely publicized in red states that aren’t running their own, and somebody followed up saying “what, are Republican governors going to shut down the Internet?” That’s the response: if you want people to find out about the ACA they can always Google it.

@cleek:Actually a lot of people who really depend on the services know. I’ve heard people in AZ say plenty of times that CA provides better services and Texas provides crap. Nevada apparently provides decent services too. I personally think the feds running the more of the exchanges is a good thing because it makes it easier to turn it into a single payor of some form down the road.

@NotMax: I like how he doubles down on his statement,claims it’s free speech to use a racial slur at and threaten the president, says he would have said the same thing if the president was white, then goes on to deny the POTUS is legitimate. And he serves on 3 commissions. Which does not surprise me. It’s either the olds (they have free time) or those with political aspirations on those.

I’m positive that over the coming years, Republicans will be able to convince themselves that Obamacare is a failure, anyway. Healthcare is so complex that there will be all sorts of flaws to point at and say “See? Failure!”

True. And frankly, if it’s like the public school system, all they have to do is say “it’s a failure!” long enough and it’ll become “true.”

@Chris: This is what really worries me. That we’re going to hear 24/7 horror stories about problems with Obamacare because, goddamnit, healthcare is so simple that everything should go smoothly right off the bat. I just wish the Dems from the beginning of the negotiations, had been screaming about the Repubs having no alternative. Just pounding on that fact over and over again.

@TimF – have you gotten the costs on your plans yet? We have and clearly affordable is different to Washington than it is to me. There’s not a plan available that is ‘affordable’ or wouldn’t bankrupt me if I had a major illness (which, isn’t that the reason you carry health insurance?).

Five out of the 8 statewide offices are held by Dems (2 of the losses were in 2010, D’s won 5/6 in 2012). The problem is that the D’s are concentrated in StL and KC, so it’s easy for the R’s in the state lege to gerrymander themselves a veto-proof majority, even though MO is only barely red at the national level (I still say Obama would have won here in 2008 if we had had early voting like North Carolina did).

If you’ve been a lifetime Republican voter, it can be hard to accept that all the politicians representing you are moustache-twirling cartoon villains. But when you see enough Widow and Orphan Eviction Acts, it starts to sink in. For some of them.

I’m starting to dream about a Democratic Congressional majority after 2014.

I wish that real people did not have to suffer in order for these idiots to find out why you do not cut off your nose to spite your face.

Republicans are taking lessons from Assad (or vice versa); their very survival is at stake. If the ACA works, Republicans go into the wilderness for decades and we all know what that means* for the USA.

@ruemara: The stuff from today is good too. His statement about possibly being removed from his committees is “If they’re going to do it, they’re going to lose a good man,” “It seems like nobody else in Sabattus cares enough. I care about this community more than people living here 30 or 40 years.” and ranks high on the charm. He also says he hasn’t received calls of support: “A lot of people are afraid, I think,”. He doesn’t want to prosecute one abusive call he got (telling him to go home or his head’ll be blown off) unless it continues — but as Marsters posted before Obama’s election “Everyone says he has to go, but guess what. … (he) will be voted in again. So sad that people can be buffaloed by him. Maybe Seal Team 6 should look him up.” the continuing line of violence does rather apply to him too. Doesn’t strike me as a clever man, and he may not be that clued into the local environment either.

I’m positive that over the coming years, Republicans will be able to convince themselves that Obamacare is a failure, anyway. Healthcare is so complex that there will be all sorts of flaws to point at and say “See? Failure!”

We saw this from the beginning of the discussion of health care that led to the ACA: there were all manner of horror stories about health-care rationing in Canada and the UK, how there’s an endless waiting line to see your doctor or have any procedure done, etc.

One thing that helped was, indeed, the Internet: lots of people who actually experienced those systems were willing to jump in and say, first, most of the stories were badly distorted, and, second, even in the cases where you might have a longer wait, being covered by social insurance is a wonderful thing that they would never want to give up.

@Matt McIrvin: You are right, I know lots of people in the UK who were sick of hearing these so called horror stories about the NHS and started fighting back. The I love the NHS hashtag trended for days.

The rationing stories are bullshit as well. My Mum who just had another heart attack had a stent replaced last week. She turns 80 in November, so all these stories about letting granny die have been pretty much made up out of whole cloth.

I loved the story when the Royal Baby was born, comparing the costs. Kate was in a private hospital with the best care in the world and her delivery cost half of what it costs here in the US. You can’t make shit like that up.

Reps did have a “legitimate real equivalent” alternative: Sell insurance across state line.

I’ve heard too many interviews like this (Just pulling Grassley’s name put of a hat, could be any GOOPer as they are interchangeable on interviews since they all have same talking points)

Reporter: Senator Grassley what is the Republican alternative to the PPACA?

Grassley: well first we’ll allow insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines. If the people in Iowa pay less for insurance than in CA, I think people in CA should benefit the same as those in IA…(more on deregulation and free markets)

Reporter: ( no follow up moves to next topic) so what is your position on FAA funding.

@NotMax: I wish one of these bastards were publicly handcuffed, tried, sentenced and sent to some maximum security prison where white males are a prized commodity to the “sisters”. President Obama and his DOJ has been too goddamned nice to these bastards!

Grassley: well first we’ll allow insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines. If the people in Iowa pay less for insurance than in CA, I think people in CA should benefit the same as those in IA…(more on deregulation and free markets)

Insurance companies are already allowed to sell across state lines. Always have been. At issue is the regulations in the other state are different, so they need to develop a new product for that state to comply with the state regs. Further, they need to set up networks in that state. Oh, the competing insurance company has a monopoly there and there’s almost no chance you’ll be able to even break even on that product? Maybe we shouldn’t bother… Repeat 50 times.

When the GOP says ‘sell across state lines’ they make it sound like they’ll repeal some federal restriction. There aren’t any. NONE. What it really means if they were serious about it is ‘we’ll create a federal coverage standard that insurers will need to meet in lieu of the state standards, AND we’ll create a framework of economic incentives (like exchanges) to overcome the effects of local monopolies.’ In short, they’ll create Obamacare.

I wish one of these bastards were publicly handcuffed, tried, sentenced and sent to some maximum security prison where white males are a prized commodity to the “sisters”. President Obama and his DOJ has been too goddamned nice to these bastards!

I wish one of these bastards were publicly handcuffed, tried, sentenced and sent to some maximum security prison where white males are a prized commodity to the “sisters”. President Obama and his DOJ has been too goddamned nice to these bastards!

I expected the horror stories about the NHS and all – it’s in other countries. Enough Americans have never left this one, and when you toss in the American Exceptionalist cult they’re spoonfed from first grade, you can expect a large chunk of the population to swallow anything – after all, they have no firsthand experience to prove otherwise. The remarkable thing that things like the public school debate point out is that even if they do have firsthand experience to prove otherwise, plenty will choose to believe whatever Newscorp tells them instead.

@The Moar You Know: Fuck em!! They started the war, and as General Sherman says let them have all their fill of it!! And since the acquittal of George Zimmerman, white racism has been upped by a power of ten. No more nice talk with them, I FUCKING HATE WHITE RACISTS !!! A DEAD ONE IS A GOOD ONE!! (Sorry for rant, I am a 50 year old person of color who is sick of it)

@The Dangerman: They’re fighting on death ground. The President has given them plenty of opportunities to avoid being pushed onto death ground, but the Republicans keep insisting on passing them up. Assad may be be evil, but there is a terrible sanity to what he does (except for the part where he lets junior figures decide for themselves whether to gas people). The Republicans are evil and insane.

@Matt McIrvin: My favorite one of those stories was about how the NHS leaves people who have the same condition Stephen Hawking has to die.

@Litlebritdifrnt: My favorite real-life NHS tale: my Mum and a cousin each had cataract surgery about the same time. They both scheduled the procedures about a month ahead, they both waited 3-4 weeks between eyes, and they both wound up with successful procedures and 20/20 (or better) vision when it was done. The difference? My cousine (the NHS patient), when she was done, thanked her doctor, shook his hand, signed some papers and walked out of the office; my Mum (the US private-insurance patient), when she was done, thanked her doctor, shook his hand, signed some papers, wrote out a cheque for $6000.00 and walked out of the office. ‘Nuff said, IYAM.

Another healthcare related bomb is coming the Republicans’ way in 2016. Starting around 2016, Medicare will need the Obamacare reforms in order to pay its bills (the extra funding from Obamacare puts the Medicare funding problem off to about 2025). So one more election, and then calling for Obamacare repeal means also calling for Medicare cuts, and that will put the Republicans in a nasty political position.

@Fair Economist: Yet another reason why the 2014 elections are critical: enough Teahadists in the next Congress and they can push something through to keep Medicare on the national credit card, all the while whinging about programs like SNAP.

I found the California website to estimate your coverage (which I don’t think is up to date) and it doesn’t even ask for a zip code, just your income, your age, and the age of your spouse and/or children. But California has pretty strong regulation of insurance (there’s a whole Department of Insurance to keep an eye on all kinds of insurers) and I don’t know if Colorado has the same thing.

You may need to start bitching to your state reps about the lack of choices offered in your state.

The word is going to get around. Not just the internet, how many people have friends or relatives that regularly keep in touch with in a nearby state? This subject is going to come up and people in Missouri are going to start wondering what the hell is going on with their state legislature. Republicans are terrified that the AHCA is going to work and that most people are going to realize it in time.

It has never been most people. Most people are either insured through their job, or on Medicare.
Another large group is on Medicaid. Most of the remaining people will be affected by the new ACA, but that is not most people. I am not saying that remaining group is zero, but it is not actually ‘most people.’

Obama’s primary description of the process was: ‘if you have insurance now, it does not really change’.
Everything was aimed at keeping that promise. Change is not generally popular, and to the extent seniors were worried, it was cast as ‘this new law will affect your medicare’.

From what I understand about Obamacare, one of the things that keeps Bronze level plans from being like current junk insurance is an annual limit on out of pocket costs.

I know insurance companies have gotten a 1 yr extension to comply with annual max out of pocket limits specified on the PPACA, but current plans have max out of pocket limits which may not move as low as the 6k-individual and 12k-family limits in Obamacare, but that should help take the sting out of the deductibles and co-insurance on individual plans under Obamacare.

@catclub: In Massachusetts, an effect of Romneycare that insured people see is a negative one: they have to fill out that additional form every year with their state taxes to prove that they’re complying with the insurance mandate. And it is annoying. Very mildly annoying.

Since I think the ACA is going to do this through the IRS, I could see that extra step in federal tax preparation being a focus of resentment.

On the other hand: Just about everyone in this country has to face the possibility that they may lose employer coverage sooner or later, and have to buy expensive COBRA, go on the individual market or go without. I suppose this is a double-edged sword: on the one hand, the ACA penalizes the “go without” option, but, on the other hand, the exchanges should provide a better option for people who can’t afford the COBRA.

@Ash Can: It’s not only that seniors are becoming disenchanted. It’s also that many who never were enchanted are becoming seniors. We 60’s hippie types are now moving into (or, in case of self, have moved into our “senior” years. I expect this demographic to be at least somewhat less GOP friendly as years go by and people who remember the GOP as a formerly respectable political party die off.

I am on medicare at this point, as is my wife. But we still pay almost $400 per month for what is now our secondary insurance. So I’m watching those costs. One son has insurance through his employer, but my other son does not, so that is going to be a subject of conversation in the future. I realize that the exchanges really only cover a minority of the population, but you also have to add in those who will now be eligible for medicade.

I would definitely call or snail mail your CO state rep and raise a stink, even if s/he is a Republican. I’m in a very blue part of California, but I know the teabaggers are calling my rep 24/7 to raise hell about their issues, so we should definitely be calling about the ones bugging us.

I’m late to the party (as usual) but I got a couple of letters about MNsure, the MN health care exchange, today. We will apparently find out about the plan options on September 6th. The MNsure people have been advertising across the state and working the state fair, etc.

Clearing up something about CA: The state is split into several different regions, with different insurers offering plans in each and different plan costs for each region. The plans are “community rated”, but rated for each region not for the entire state.

@Gene108: Not true (at least in CA). Depending on the income level, the subsidized silver plan has completely different deductible, copay, and coinsurance, to the point it may even cover more than an unsubsidized Platinum plan.