Auto Insurance is a Fruadalent Enterprise. How do you stop participating?

Originally posted by Monkeygod333
The only way I see insurance as a problem is when government makes it law that every driver has to have insurance cover. Other than that it's
personal choice.

You can stop paying insurance and save up the money to the value of your own car, but then a third party liability clai could cost millions.

Otherwise you can always get pay-as-you-drive insurance, but then they have to install a gps tracker in your car.

I dont see how it is a conspiracy, insurance is a daily need, a nescessity, much like water and sewerage services. Has been since the London burnings
in 1666.

There's no 'system', just cover for when you personal shtf.

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It is a conspiracy though, I think you should read the other thread. And no of those options work for me, I don't want to give them anymore money
than I have too. While my amount of insurance is small, a guy in the other thread payed nearly $100k in insurance and never filed a major claim, while
I'm only starting out, he's what I have to aspire too. Paying $100k out of pocket and having nothing to show for it. That certainly the system could
be designed a little better.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Mass. cops ruined my driving record in 1 year, my insurance went from $400/yr to $3600/year, and after they hiked the rate, they demanded I pay for
the whole year in full up front or they'd cancel my insurance.

I was driving a $400 crap box at the time. I laughed at the insurance agent and told her absolutely no way I can do that. She said then I'd be
driving illegally, to which I said oh well I guess so. Then I moved to NH where auto insurance is optional.

Good to know, I think NH is a little to far north for my blood though. Plus that winter weather would ruin my accident record.

All insurance are a fraud...you just realized that? But unfortunatly there are laws in my area that obligate you to have auto insurance or you
can't renew your plates. I don't know if it's everywhere in the world though.

I probably wouldn't be so bad off, because I would by $20,000 richer. I'm a very cautious driver, I'll take my chances about something being my
fault. I've been driving for 9 years now and have not been in or caused an accident, despite other people trying to hit me at times.

More to the point I'm already in the hole, and not by my own volition. This is one of the arguments disputed in the thread I posted. Read their
points, it will put my view on your point in perspective.

Just throwing this out there.
20K may seem like a lot of money....and it is a lot of money.
But how far would 20K go if you fell asleep at the wheel or swerved to miss a deer and jacked some doctors 100K Mercedes, put his wife in the hospital
and in the process caused 50K in property damage to the homeowners property the accident happened in front of/on?

It wouldn't go very far.

Throw in a lawsuit he the wife died. Medical bills, burial expenses, loss of income, etc....

Insurance can and will pay for a lot more than just your 2000 truck. It can, for a lack of better wording, save your life.

Not really, if all your hypotheticals came true, I'd probably spend 20 years in prison for manslaughter and then Insurance and reparations would be
irrelevant for me and most definitely not save my life. I understand the plan for the worse, hope for the best, idea you're trying to convey to me.
However, this is still not to my point, I'm convinced that there is a more acceptable way to address paying for punitive damages, when you are being
held liable.

On the opposing side of the coin, the thread I posted and mentioned you should read, has a scenario I see myself in in 14 years. Payed $100k to an
insurance company, with no major claims, and absolutely nothing to show for the money "well spent". I feel that what you are trying to convey, is
exactly the mindset they want to place you in, where "this system is the best possible system to address this issue". I call that indoctrination, I
seriously don't mean to be offensive, but that's just how I see, and I harbor no ill feelings towards you. It's just how I see it.

the main question with insurance is that can you afford to pay should you put some 5 year old onto 24x7 critical care costing lord knows how much per
hour, if so then it doesnt matter if you have to spend 2-3 million a year on some poor kid for the next 60-70 years but if you cant afford the costs
then its time to pay the insurance company to take the hit for you

i dont know about american insurance but perhaps a nice bike with a 600-1000cc engine which will eat the miles up and be alot more fuel efficient than
some 20 year old rust bucket that does gallons per mile

Any ideas on how to separate yourself from the racket? Short of moving a great distance. Something immediate and realistic. I agree with your points,
that is how Insurance companies treat their customers as a whole.

The fraud goes way deeper than auto insurance. How is it that any local police or Sheriff's can tow away your vehicle without any seeming due
process of law? How is it that a law enforcement officer can have your car towed away simply because you were caught driving without a license?
Without any conviction, without any appearance of due process of law, law enforcement officers in every state treat your vehicle as if it is their
property and they only let you drive it. Why is that?

That is because technically and legally speaking, if your vehicle is registered with a DMV then they do own it and only let you drive it. Wait a
minute JPZ...wait just a cotton pickin' minute! I have a title of registration right here that I use as proof of ownership. Well, a title of
registration is not proof of ownership it is proof that you've registered your vehicle with the DMV, and that is all.

Try to purchase a vehicle, brand spanking new, or used, from a car lot, and then ask for the bill of sale. A bill of sale is proof of ownership. Car
dealers will not give you the bill of sale and will mutter that they cannot by "law" and that they must send it to the DMV. That's right, the DMV
holds any existent bills of sale on vehicles, and in exchange for that will grant you a title of registration. Technically, they own the vehicle and
simply allow you to drive it as long as they are allowing it, and when they decide they no longer wish to allow it, then they will disallow it.

Have you never noticed all the signs and assertions in DMV manuals that insist that "driving is a privilege and not a right"? When you enter into a
DMV and apply for a license to drive and/or a title of registration, you are signing a contract with a state clubhouse, or country club if you will,
agreeing to abide by all the terms and conditions of that club house. Those terms and conditions begin with "driving is a privilege and not a
right". Your signature is all the agreement they need to make what would otherwise be an unlawful act lawful.

No government within the United States, local, state, or federal, has any authority to deny and/or disparage rights retained by the people. Owning a
vehicle is not criminal. Driving a vehicle is not criminal. Driving recklessly is. Vehicular homicide is a crime, driving is not. What is not
criminal, and outside of defense, what causes no harm is done by right. Yet, the vast majority of people have gone into agreement with this licensing
and registration scam, so by contract, the licensed driver has agreed to play by their rules, not the rule of law, and if the DMV decides you should
do business with private insurance companies, you are contractually obligated to abide by that decision.

This is how the law of contracts work. This is how law works. It is the people who hold the inherent political power, so when governments want to
circumvent Constitutional restraints what they oh so cleverly do is create licensing and registration schemes convincing you to join their special
country clubs...just sign here on the dotted line.

See I like your options, but that's the problem, I'm in the never ending cycle. I can't raise enough funds to realistically do that because every
moment I get out of the red, there is something else I have to pay for. So saving money is a realistic problem. I don't go out and spend it
willy-nilly. I work as a Chef, and I get many meals for free, but I still have to have food in the house, because I refuse to eat fast food. There
aren't sustainable or cheap restaurants around here, unless you want to eat from the bottom of the barrel. Food, Auto-Insurance, Rent, and this
bi-weekly medical payments I have reaching into my pockets keep me from getting away to a more 'sustainable' environment.

However I guess that shouldn't be the problem, should communities and towns be designed to proliferate that kind of lifestyle. I should have to move
half way across the state or country to find a place like that. More importantly I would like to find a place like that with out bumping into a
hipster every twenty feet, but that's really just personal preference.

Also btw, I really don't mean to come off a b*tcher, moaner, & whiner. Honestly I'm not like that, I keep most of my complaints to myself, but this
seems like a good outlet for a topic such as this. So it might seem like I'm complaining, but I'm really asking for different points of view, and
maybe a point in the right direction as to where I should start. Again I'm not just talking about living modestly, I already do that, it's not
enough to continually make ends meet.

Originally posted by Maxatoria
the main question with insurance is that can you afford to pay should you put some 5 year old onto 24x7 critical care costing lord knows how much per
hour, if so then it doesnt matter if you have to spend 2-3 million a year on some poor kid for the next 60-70 years but if you cant afford the costs
then its time to pay the insurance company to take the hit for you

i dont know about american insurance but perhaps a nice bike with a 600-1000cc engine which will eat the miles up and be alot more fuel efficient than
some 20 year old rust bucket that does gallons per mile

The truck is an issue, but I do need it for various work related reasons. Also, I do feel comfortable on a motor cycle and drove an 80cc for almost a
year, it's just too dangerous. Also its not really the answer I'm looking for, because I'm still going to be paying out the ass for insurance.

Once again you hit the nail on the head. I agree with you, and more importantly you articulated what I was thinking far better than the previous
thread did with specifics.

The thing is, I'm looking for a way out of it. Am I doomed to participate until I can get out, which may, potentially be never. What is step 1? If I
want to reach self-sustainability, far enough away, but with minor luxuries like indoor plumbing and air-conditioning, and I'm at this place right
now, Where do I start?

What are the legal loop-holes for the poor to get around these systems, even if it's just temporary. I just need ~6 months of steady saving, minus
systemic payments, before I could realistically take action.

So, if an uninsured driver STILL has to pay damages and/or medical bills when they cause an accident, then why are insured drivers required to buy
extra cover in the event of an uninsured driver hitting you?

Suggestion. Temporarily forgo any unneeded expense, like the medical bills. Pay them off in time when you have the money, of course, but you have to
look out for yourself first. Who else will?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you're in a "never ending cycle" because you think you have no choice. You think that you and the lifestyle you're in
has painted you into a corner that you can't get out of. My advice? Start walking. Don't mind the paint on your feet, that will come off in time.
You're only 25, you really shouldn't be so heavily into a lifestyle you call your own to where it's defined you yet. Know what I mean? You've got your
whole life ahead of you to define yourself. You're not done yet. Let this one change be part of that whole definition.

These are just suggestions that have helped me, and maybe they'll help you. But for starters, look into the laws and see if your state is one that has
mandatory insurance. If they don't, drop it and start driving a lot more carefully. And maybe get a second job if you can.

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