But you couldn't prove me wrong with anything else, is that why you avoided the rest of what I wrote? I guess simple people like to settle for the most tiniest, weak and insignificant victories. As I said.. 4 out of 55 movies.

I guess it's the same reason why you avoided the rest of what I wrote. You comment on my opinion of Keaton, but conveniently ignored the rest of the post entirely.

And whether it was 55 out of 55 or 4 out of 55, the point was proving you wrong...which I did.

Batman 89 isn't overrated, its one of the most groundbreaking films of the last 20 years, Does the film hold up well? Thats another question and is highly debatable, for me personally, no it doesn't. Its kinda like going back and watching Lugosi in Dracula or playing Goldeneye on the N64, great for its time, but VERY dated. I loved Keaton as Batman, loved the dark tone that Burton brought to it (and in my opinion Tim Burton brought Batman out of the 60s in the eyes of the general public) and I loved the score. What I hated was Jack Nicholson's Joker (flame away,) the Prince songs and nonsensical scenes like the batwing eclipsing the moon.

__________________
He's called "The Punisher", not " Family Man".

There is a huge difference between "I want to honor my loved ones" and "I hate criminals, and want to punish them".

I take it your the type of person who takes down one piece in Checkers and considers it the greatest accomplishment in a life time?

If your going to grasp for straws, you could have tried to grab a handful..

Actually if I had to call it, I'm the kind of person that would play Chess over Checkers...since Chess takes thought and Checkers is extremely lame.

And technically it wasn't a 'victory,' as you put it, at all. You made a snap comment and all I did was point out that the comment was wrong. Had I known you were going to get defensive and try to cover yourself in spite of being wrong, I wouldn't have said anything.

Actually if I had to call it, I'm the kind of person that would play Chess over Checkers...since Chess takes thought and Checkers is extremely lame.

And technically it wasn't a 'victory,' as you put it, at all. You made a snap comment and all I did was point out that the comment was wrong. Had I known you were going to get defensive and try to cover yourself in spite of being wrong, I wouldn't have said anything.

CFE

But the thing is, you think that pointing 4 movies out of the 55 movies he has done makes my claims of him carrying the way he preformed as Bruce Wayne into other roles wrong, one of them being a movie that came out before Batman 1989..

But the thing is, you think that pointing 4 movies out of the 55 movies he has done makes my claims of him carrying the way he preformed as Bruce Wayne into other roles wrong, one of them being a movie that came out before Batman 1989..

No you're changing your words around. You clearly stated that he plays the exact same character in every film he does. Now that that's been proven null, you're changing it to "He plays the same character in other roles."

Now THAT statement I'm not denying...

But despite not denying it, I would like to point out that Keaton is a more multi-dimensional actor that you're suggesting. That's all.

Also, I think not only is Batman overrated, so is Jack's Joker. I cant stand the attitude/ego, dialogue, & esp. the dancing.

I think once Jack was on board of course the writing had to change in order to accommodate the actor and don't forget Nicholson was a much higher paid actor than Keaton.

Of course if there is one thing I have to disagree is on Nicholson's casting that aside from the menacing grin and uncanny eyebrows Jack physically (old and pudgy) doesn't resemble Joker from the comics.

So Michael Keaton also acted like he did as Wayne in Night Shift, Mr. Mom, Johnny Dangerously, Gung Ho, Clean and Sober, The Paper, Live from Baghdad and Much Ado About Nothing right?

ummm.... yeah.

While we're at it could somebody please finally explain to me what was unjoker like about Nicholson's Joker performance especially considering that performance within the context of everything Joker related up to 1988. I've always been curious.

__________________I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan.

While we're at it could somebody please finally explain to me what was unjoker like about Nicholson's Joker performance especially considering that performance within the context of everything Joker related up to 1988. I've always been curious.

It was a perfect portrayal of Joker from the comics at the time just as Ceasar Romero was a perfect Joker for his time (Really. Go back and read Batman comics from the early 60's and you will see).
What a lot of fanboys seem to forget, or not understand simply because they are too young, is that Batman '89 was just as big a fanboy dream when it bowed as Begins was in '05....bigger! Batmania was absolutely crazy. And you really have to hand it to Burton. It was his dark quirkiness that showed a public that had mainly grown on the TV show, what a complex Universe Batman exists in. If not for Burton's bizarre style which was a perfect fit, Nolan's take may never have come into existence.

It was a perfect portrayal of Joker from the comics at the time just as Ceasar Romero was a perfect Joker for his time (Really. Go back and read Batman comics from the early 60's and you will see).
What a lot of fanboys seem to forget, or not understand simply because they are too young, is that Batman '89 was just as big a fanboy dream when it bowed as Begins was in '05....bigger! Batmania was absolutely crazy. And you really have to hand it to Burton. It was his dark quirkiness that showed a public that had mainly grown on the TV show, what a complex Universe Batman exists in. If not for Burton's bizarre style which was a perfect fit, Nolan's take may never have come into existence.

Well even though that fact about Nolan's films never existing if not for Burton may be true, that isn't the extent of the legacy of Burton's "Batman" movies. It's honestly not even the primary aspect of that legacy...the real achievement of Burton's films is how it instigated the entire 'dark superhero' movement.

Film versions of "The Crow" and "Blade" would never have been considered without "BATMAN."

Then there's the TV that followed. The "Flash" TV Show. The "Black Scorpion" TV Show. And of course the greatest thing to come out of Burton's work..."Batman: The Animated Series" which in turn paved the way for the DCAU and launched the standard of Western Animation into the stratosphere.

AND as you said, it showed a more mature, complex approach to the character than Adam West had done.

Burton's Batman films actually changed the comic book movie genre, while Nolan's films aren't really as revolutionary as "Batman" and "Batman Returns" were when they were first concieved. In fact they aren't revolutionary at all.

It's common place now for Nolan's films to feature a dark and dingy depiction of Gotham City and a somber Batman fighting psychologically fractured rogues...but that wasn't the case (as far as non-comic media) when Burton was on the job. Hell considering the Last big version of Bats in media were both Adam West and the Super Friends, it was quite the radical change in tone.

EVERYONE expected Nolan to do a darker Batman. But NO ONE expected Burton to...at least initially.

The way I see it...the dark, brooding personality and visual appeal that we all attach to Batman today as opposed to Adam West, Bill Dozier and the 60 series is due to the work of three individuals.

Dennis O'Neal, Frank Miller and Tim Burton.

So is "B89" overrated?

No.

Both "Superman: The Movie" and "BATMAN" did SOOO much. NOT just for Comic Book Movies...but for Comic Books and Comic Book Superheroes.

ok, threw this on the other day just to participate more in this thread. We can go on and on about its faithfulness to the Batman mythos. I still enjoyed the movie as much as ever but if I want to be nitpicky, my issues are more silly things than anything:

- Bruce Wayne being this mysterious man that no one really knows anything about. And how it's a total shock to Vale and Knox to find out Thomas and Martha Wayne were murdered. Nice job knowing the town you cover, Knox!

- In a city with corruption issues, you have the Commissioner and DA throwing dice in Bruce Wayne's living room.

- Billy Dee Williams' Ghost and Goblins line with the cigar in his mouth. I half expected Lando to whip out a bottle of Colt 45 right there.

- Napier blasts Eckhart, Batman just stands and watches.

- Gordon says any man that open fires on Napier will answer to him. Napier has his back turned and the cops just start firing away! You got great command of you troops there, commish!

- Bruce is downing champagne and then off to fight crime!!! (don't give me the DKR cider bit, because he's clearly drinking wine with Vale later in the film)

ok, threw this on the other day just to participate more in this thread. We can go on and on about its faithfulness to the Batman mythos. I still enjoyed the movie as much as ever but if I want to be nitpicky, my issues are more silly things than anything:

- Bruce Wayne being this mysterious man that no one really knows anything about. And how it's a total shock to Vale and Knox to find out Thomas and Martha Wayne were murdered. Nice job knowing the town you cover, Knox!

The Wayne murders did happen many many years ago.

Quote:

- In a city with corruption issues, you have the Commissioner and DA throwing dice in Bruce Wayne's living room.

Everyone needs to have a night off from work occasionally.

Quote:

- Billy Dee Williams' Ghost and Goblins line with the cigar in his mouth.

Exactly WHAT the Batman should be to Gotham citizens is an urban legend. I'm fine with the notion of Gotham citizens not knowing exactly what Batman is. There is fear in the unknown and Batman wants to be feared. And, after all, that is what Batman tries to do by lurking in the shadows. Using exploding gas pellets to make himself appear and disappear and so on.

Quote:

I half expected Lando to whip out a bottle of Colt 45 right there.

Quote:

- Napier blasts Eckhart, Batman just stands and watches.

"A fitting end for his kind."

Quote:

- Gordon says any man that open fires on Napier will answer to him. Napier has his back turned and the cops just start firing away! You got great command of you troops there, commish!

The cops are corrupt in Gotham.

Quote:

- Bruce is downing champagne and then off to fight crime!!! (don't give me the DKR cider bit, because he's clearly drinking wine with Vale later in the film)

It would be out of the Wayne persona to not be seen having a few drinks at social events.

Exactly WHAT the Batman should be to Gotham citizens is an urban legend. I'm fine with the notion of Gotham citizens not knowing exactly what Batman is. There is fear in the unknown and Batman wants to be feared. And, after all, that is what Batman tries to do by lurking in the shadows. Using exploding gas pellets to make himself appear and disappear and so on.

I have no problem with the line itself, it was just Williams delivery and demeanor at that moment. Hence the Colt 45 comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

The cops are corrupt in Gotham.

Well, when your DA and Commish are shooting craps at the local playboy's crib what else would you expect!

My list wasn't so much critiques as much as things in the movie I get a chuckle out of. Just like in Begins, how the only way Batman couldn't be linked to Wayne Enterprises is if Lucius had every engineer, Department of Defense and government official assasinated after the Tumbler project had been shutdown.

Of course if there is one thing I have to disagree is on Nicholson's casting that aside from the menacing grin and uncanny eyebrows Jack physically (old and pudgy) doesn't resemble Joker from the comics.

89 was probably the closest we got to Batman Begins style in the old films. 89 shallowly showed the problems in a city without getting into the minutaea of the whys that Nolan dived into. Burton also had a pinch of camp in his films, which was then manifested further by Batman Returns, which still isnt a bad film either, but further off base.

Overall I feel Burton was too unpredictable for Batman. Nolan is more down to earth with the concepts and he obeys his own set of logic and design through the saga (It would seem so far). Burton is more of a whim guy. If he wants to do something off the wall, hed just do it for the art of it when most just wanted him to stay on the rails.

I grew up on Batman 89 and Returns and adore them, and I proudly state that batman begins is the true sucessor to Burtons suggested directions. While Burton liked a LITERAL gotham more, Nolan made Gotham mean an urban climate, figurative.

I have no problem with the line itself, it was just Williams delivery and demeanor at that moment. Hence the Colt 45 comment.

Gotcha. I love his delivery there. That's my favorite line of his.

Quote:

Well, when your DA and Commish are shooting craps at the local playboy's crib what else would you expect!

They're not always hangin' out at Wayne Manor.

Quote:

My list wasn't so much critiques as much as things in the movie I get a chuckle out of. Just like in Begins, how the only way Batman couldn't be linked to Wayne Enterprises is if Lucius had every engineer, Department of Defense and government official assasinated after the Tumbler project had been shutdown.

I have no problem with the line itself, it was just Williams delivery and demeanor at that moment. Hence the Colt 45 comment.

Well, when your DA and Commish are shooting craps at the local playboy's crib what else would you expect!

My list wasn't so much critiques as much as things in the movie I get a chuckle out of. Just like in Begins, how the only way Batman couldn't be linked to Wayne Enterprises is if Lucius had every engineer, Department of Defense and government official assasinated after the Tumbler project had been shutdown.

Rumor has it that little pothole gets addressed in TDK

__________________
He's called "The Punisher", not " Family Man".

There is a huge difference between "I want to honor my loved ones" and "I hate criminals, and want to punish them".