What exactly is mysterious here?
If you want to merely recommend a video, why don't you just do that on YouTube?
Here, we prefer discussion, not television.

originally posted by Dolour
really nice!
did you see the wavelike toolmarks on some of this stuff? :p similar to what we see here
looks pretty much like a milling cutter was at work.

The marks in your pic are the result of pounding stones gouging out material. That's how stone was quarried if it wouldn't cleave along straight
planes. For example, granite vs. limestone, which actually breaks off in blocks and can be split because of that fact.

originally posted by: HarteWhat exactly is mysterious here?
If you want to merely recommend a video, why don't you just do that on YouTube?
Here, we prefer discussion, not television.

originally posted by Dolour
really nice!
did you see the wavelike toolmarks on some of this stuff? :p similar to what we see here
looks pretty much like a milling cutter was at work.

The marks in your pic are the result of pounding stones gouging out material. That's how stone was quarried if it wouldn't cleave along straight
planes. For example, granite vs. limestone, which actually breaks off in blocks and can be split because of that fact.

The marks in your pic are the result of pounding stones gouging out material. That's how stone was quarried if it wouldn't cleave along straight
planes.

thats really illogical, you wouldnt get ANY kind of pattern, but a throughoutly rough shape.
whats with the wavelike structure? how could manually beating poundingstones vs the wall create theese patterns?
those are clearly the marks of a power shovel/hydraulic miller removing rows of material.

For example, granite vs. limestone, which actually breaks off in blocks and can be split because of that fact.

en.wikipedia.org...
they didnt have any means of shaping theese blocks due to the lack of sturdy metals.
its one thing to break off one rough piece, but something compeltely different if you wanna maintain 90° angels...
grab a piece of wood, an angle bracket and a rasp.
if you manage to get the surfaces even close to 90° to each other im impressed.
note that this is a soft material, and modern tools, youll still most liekly fail without the aid of modern maschinery.
leave alone getting this stuff right to a 100th of an inch with primitive tools.

dont underestimate how freakin difficult it is to get those angles correct in relation to each other.
thats one of the things they force you to do during metal-working hours.
it took me well over 40 hours to get a SINGLE piece of 20x20x15cm right, not imagine millions of such "materpieces".
you dont apply that degree of accuracy unless its nessesary, or the maschiene is on its own working with this accuracy.
one thing E-V-E-R-Y engineer will tell you is that you "dont work more precise than you HAVE to"!

the thought alone this would be possible at all, is totally off this worls.
they had neither the tools that are nessesary for such a task, not the means to measure the accuracy to the degree the endresult presents.
and quite frankly, working more precise than your able to measure is just horribly illogical.

allso, how would ancient people have moved things like the 1200ton obelisk in assuan?
ramses statue? collossi of memnon? perfectly(!! so flat our BEST maschienes couldt best it) polished 100ton sarcophagi in the serapheum?
polished(!) working tunnels? (suuuuure, theyd put alot of effort into making the temporary workspace all smooth and stuff. isnt it more logical
to assume that this is the sideeffect of the maschiene used?)
magic?

May want to pick up a book or two on ancient stone working techniques before resorting to incredulity. I think you would be amazed at just what you
can do with a pound stone or hammer stone, and all the other tools they had at their disposal.

a reply to: Dolour
Yeah, sorry but as already stated those are the most classic and recognisable of hammer-stone marks, widely seen on megalithic sites.

The reason for them is simple - as a hammer you choose a harder stone than that which you are shaping for obvious reasons, and you methodically (zone
by zone) bash away to a certain depth and then do an adjacent zone - this guides your efforts and keeps your work fairly consistent and accurate in
depth etc.

I have never seen a power tool that leaves marks like that -they leave far more precise and regular tool marks, you must have noticed that, yeah?

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
a reply to: JamesTB
May want to pick up a book or two on ancient stone working techniques before resorting to incredulity. I think you would be amazed at just what you
can do with a pound stone or hammer stone, and all the other tools they had at their disposal.

part of my education was material science.
one thing i know from that is that if you pound a brittle material like granite, itll burst to bits.
ANY tool used for pounding in ANY way, would NOT be able to shape granite blocks.
this can ONLY be achieved by chip removal.

Yeah, sorry but as already stated those are the most classic and recognisable of hammer-stone marks, widely seen on megalithic sites.

absolutely not, they show drilling marks with tremendous gain per revolution, obvious milling and sawing marks etc...
are you into material science somehow, wich enables you to actually distinquish toolmarks?

The reason for them is simple - as a hammer you choose a harder stone than that which you are shaping for obvious reasons

you DO know that granite is far harder than the tools used?
wtf you think why i linked the wikipage for mohs scale?
MAYBE so even a guy like you who isnt into the topic can look up some reasonable?

It's only Larry Kinsella's site, one of the top primitive technologists alive today lol, perhaps you should read his site and see his work, he'll
leave you in no doubt as to it being done with hammer stones and muscle power.

Rubbish, you can shape Granite with Flint. The flint wears more quickly than the granite but it totally works. You can also grind Granit in to shape
by rubbing on softer stones with water to make a slurry.

Rubbish, you can shape Granite with Flint. The flint wears more quickly than the granite but it totally works. You can also grind Granit in to shape
by rubbing on softer stones with water to make a slurry.

ok so for starters you say, the highly sophisticated institute with focus on construction ive been visiting knows less about how to work with certain
materials, than some random youtube vid?
second: your obviously not the numbers guy, so ill clarify it for you: if they had used STEEL tools, the construction of a single sarcophagus,
taking into account how much pressure can be applied with muscle power only, would have exceeded the lifespan of a human, thus its inconsistant with
the theory its been done in less than 20years.
and they did not even HAVE steel tools, so add another lifetime on top of that.

Well I trained in Archaeology at both Sheffield and Manchester, I flintknapp using granite hammer stones too.

ok, your into archeology and im into engineering.
how come YOU want to teach ME any building techniques?

/edit: as a sidenote mr smartguy, theres something called "edit button" no need for tripple postss.
if thats your average working quality it explains very well how you can blindly believe in nonsense clearly rejected by anyone expirienced in
maschiening parts.

originally posted by: skalla
Granite has no internal structure and will not burst into bits when you pound it, or every hammer stone I use when working flint would be
useless.

quoted from wiki: "When used in materials science, it is generally applied to materials that fail when there is little or no evidence of plastic
deformation before failure"
granite has no elasticity, or plasticity. thats why its used as reference platform for precission measurements, thank you.

from Larry Kinsella's site that your pic came from - he makes, and uses stone celts (axes) and is probably the top guy for this and you should
check his credentials for your self.

and theese puny rough shaped stoneaxes are somehow compareable to polished surfaces, perfectly angled, not off by more than the thickness of a human
hair?

He makes them out of granite you know, by beating and grinding with other stones.

how many samples break before he manages to finish one? flintknapper.com...
that one cracked for example. now do that with thousand of several ton blocks.
hillarious dude, hillarious. thnx for making my day. lol

/edit: just a hint mr esowatch: less clickfarmers!
with the quality of your posts shown in this thread, its far from plausible that you get two stars per post on average, *duh*

As far as the nay-sayers here on ATS, take comfort in the fact today's establishment thinking was once heresy. Sure, a lot of heresy went by the
waysides but it is continued thought and experiment which drives knowledge forward with a healthy dose of humility. And today's establishment-speak
will one day be seen as foolish as new and better ideas emerge.

When it comes to ancient stone working and building, to think we have the whole picture is delusional. We have some parts down pretty well, but
others? It is akin to growing a flower in the kitchen window and then commenting smugly on the intricacies of running an international
agri-business.

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