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Author
Topic: Frottage risk with positive partner (Read 15019 times)

I had a risky exposure about 3 weeks ago. I am a gay male, who met another male of unknown status - although he said he was negative, I am not sure that is correct as I don't have a way of verifying that.

We had had protected sex, then later on in the night, he had a lot of lube on me, and basically I ended up inside him (the insertive partner) unsafely for a short time. I took myself out, and then he did it again, about 3 times total. Each time was very short and I told him we had to use protection if he wanted to do that. I have read that the insertive partner is at a lower risk, but I am still freaked out. There was a lot of lube on me, which made it easier to go in, whether that means it would reduce any tears in his anus is another question I have.

Anyway, today I have started getting a sore throat and feeling a little under the weather - this is at 20 days. I still have an appetite though, and according to the thermometer I have, my temperature is normal. Could this be the start of ARS?

I am feeling very ashamed that I allowed myself to get into that situation, and this waiting for the time to pass before I can take a test is really hard.

First of all, your decisions about safer sex should never be based upon what someone tells you about their HIV status. Even well meaning people don't always know their status accurately. So the best thing to do for your own health is to always, without exception, use condoms when anal intercourse is involved.

As to your specific incident, there was risk to you for having unprotected anal. As the insertive partner the risk is lower, but a real risk nevertheless. The odds are in your favor that you will test negative. You need to get tested at 13 weeks past the most recent such incident in order to have a conclusively negative result.

Don't bother beating yourself up about having slipped as far as safer sex is concerned. Just learn from the experience and don't do it again.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately the other person kept doing it even though I said no - I was under the influence of alcohol - again a stupid choice.

Normally is there a fever when you have ARS? I only have a sore throat right now, but still have an appetite. I'm hoping that it's because I flew yesterday that it could be the reason why I have a sore throat.

Neither symptoms nor the LACK of symptoms will ever tell you a single thing about your hiv status, ONLY testing will. For that reason, we do not discuss symptoms in this forum. If you feel unwell, see doctor. And remember, sometimes a sore throat is just that - a sore throat.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I had a possible exposure risk 6 and a half weeks ago, where I was the insertive partner in anal sex, and the condom slipped off, meaning there was some intercourse unsafely. I had an HIV test yesterday, and it was negative. Do you think that is a good indication of me being negative at the 12 week mark?

I've merged your threads here. Please follow our rule and keep all of your entries in this same thread.

As to your latest concern, the negative result you received is a very good indication that you will test negative again at 13 weeks. Yours was a single and very brief possible risk. The condom protected you until it broke. All but the smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after a possible exposure to the HIV virus.

For future reference make sure you are using fresh condoms that fit you properly and enough water-based lube.

I have posted a question before but want to ask you about my possible infection.

I had a few possible exposure risks recently within the last 6 weeks where I was the insertive top unsafely. This week I have developed really weird symptoms including very sore lymph nodes, pain in my legs, arms chest, back, neck, hands and all at different times. The under arms and groin have been hurting all week.

To you does this sound like sero-conversion? I can't think what else it could be. I know my body pretty well and have never felt this before.

I had a viral load test done on thursday and am waiting for my results.

No, it doesn't sound like seroconversion. It could be anything. If you feel unwell, see a doctor.

I hope the test used was an RNA PCR and not a DNA PCR, as the DNA ones are NOT approved for diagnostic purposes as they have a high rate of FALSE positives. Let's hope you don't get one of those.

PCR testing is not really a short cut to diagnosis unless you are actually positive with a high viral load - and an RNA test has been used. Any PCR result must still be confirmed with antibody testing.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thank you Ann for your kind words of reassurance. I can't imagine what else it could be, but these are weird sensations. Today I've had soreness, throbbing in the insides of my elbows, back of calves and knees plus the continued lymph nodes pain. I thought that when all lymph nodes hurt it is very indicative of ARS?

I think they did a RNA test - that is what I asked for. Any other places I can go to for help?

Lymph nodes swell when there's an infection in the body, ANY infection. If you're concerned about yours, GO SEE A DOCTOR. You could be missing something important in your assumption that it could only be hiv. It could be anything.

Other than your doctor, I don't know where else you can go for help. To diagnose or rule out hiv takes time and there's nothing any of us can do to change that. You're just going to have to get productively busy until the time is right for you to get some answers. Let us know what your test result is and make sure you find out what sort of PCR was used. Good luck.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Is it possible that the aches etc could be flu like symptoms that haven't turned into full blown flu/ars because I had the flu shot? I'm much achier everywhere tonight and my throat gas started playing up. Thanks

So I just got my RNA HIV test back and it was negative. I'm feeling quite relieved to say the least, but wanted to ask if this test is pretty conclusive? According to what I've read, the RNA test covers anything from 2 weeks ago backwards, and I haven't had any risky exposures since then. Also, as I went to the doctors with symptoms, they told me that the viral load would be have been very high and therefore would have showed up on this test.

They have suggested I get a follow-up antibody test at the 3 month mark.

The PCR was never designed to be a diagnostic test. That negative result is encouraging but as Rod (and your doctor) have indicated, you do need to re-retest at 13 weeks for a definitive result. I expect you will continue to test negative but you need that result to be certain.

So I just got an antibody test today which was negative - hurrah! This is at 10 weeks post the most risky exposure and then 6 weeks since the most recent exposure (very quick insertive anal). As I was also negative on the RNA test (3 weeks ago) and another antibody test (4 weeks ago), my counsellor today said it is a very very good sign that I am negative. He said I could come back in another six weeks for piece of mind. Any thoughts?

I have to say thank you for people's support and comments on here - so great to have these resources available.

I am posting this here as well as my new thread that I started - hoping that I can get some feedback. Thanks

Last night I had a potentially risky situation - I am a gay male, and another guy tried to penetrate me anally. He didn't get very far in at all from what I could feel, and it didn't last very long. He was not wearing protection and there wasn't any lube so therefore it could have been a potential risk for me.

So I have two questions:

1. How risky was this encounter?2. Should I go and get PEP tomorrow which will be just over 30 hours from exposure risk.

This sounds like a case of dipping. The slight insertion of a cock into your backside. The risk here, if at all, is theoretical but given you weren't sure what was going on back there you might want to test at 3 months.

Let me clear one thing up: YOU CERTAINLY DO NOT NEED PEP AS A RESULT OF THIS INCIDENT.

What you do need is to start taking condoms with you when you go out fucking around with other guys. Unprotected dipping can easily lead to unprotected fucking and unprotected fucking can lead to HIV infection.

After the palaver with your last incident you should know this by now.

So I recommend that you get tested at 3 months just in case. I don't believe you'll test positive as a result of this incident, but you should be tested all the same.

And before you go turning this into an enormous drama and posting endlessly about how stressed you are remember that we don't put up with that sort of crap around here. Just get tested in 3 months and start using condoms.

Thank you for your reply - I appreciate the information. It was case of bad judgement under the influence of alcohol and I am very annoyed with myself. I will get tested at the 3 month mark as you suggest.

CH, mixing excessive drinking and casual sex is a very dangerous combination. I can't count how many I have known to become infected because in an alcoholic haze they lost the ability to negotiate safer sex and using condoms.

You need to stay awake to the harsh reality that even low risk is not the same as no risk. The pleasure of a sexual experience is fleeting but once you are infected HIV is forever.

Becoming aware of how you put yourself at risk in this most recent situation is a good opportunity for you to stay committed to protecting your health in the future so that you don't become another statistic of carelessness.

Taking PEP is no walk in the park. It should only be done in cases where there is a serious risk for transmission. In order to be effective it must be instituted within 48-72 hours after an exposure, the earlier the better.

In your situation the risk was virtually nil as you reported it so it just wouldn't ordinarily be recommended.

Ultimately each individual has to decide if they feel strongly enough about it and a doctor agrees to prescribe it.

Thanks Andy for your reassurance about my risk. I did decide to get PEP as the doctor I saw said it was low to moderate risk, and I felt it was better for my piece of mind than waiting for the window period to pass. He prescribed me Truvada, which he said was not as strong a PEP as some due to it not being a high risk. I'm still very anxious about everything, so am struggling a little bit with getting through, but I appreciate the support of this site.

OK, having made the decision to do PEP you need to know that you can't get a final all-clear until 13 weeks after the completion of the PEP regimen.

You can test initially at 6 weeks after the completion of PEP. Assuming you get a negative result at that point then the likelihood is that you will continue to test negative.

In re-reading your various entries, I again want to note that at least twice you have been in situations where either you were penetrating or being penetrated without protection with alcohol playing some role in the incidents. This should be a very big red flag to you that you are on a very slippery slope (no pun intended), and these situations put your life and your health at risk.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Why does taking PEP extend the window period by one extra month? I'm now wondering whether PEP wasn't warranted based on my risk and your comments. But I didn't know what to do and thought taking it would be for the best.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Yes, I think your situation is very low risk. Taking Truvada is overkill. With it or without it, you're unlikely to end up positive over this very brief, possible dipping incident. You said yourself you aren't quite sure if he actually penetrated you. I think you would have known if he did.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Do yourself a favour while you wait out the window period and don't spend time reading about hiv and stressing yourself out. Get on with your life and keep productively busy and the time will go by faster than you think.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

A quick question for you. As you and I both think that my risk was low, what if I stopped the PEP medication (I have only taken 2 days so far) now, would that be good? I was thinking I can then test sooner, and in fact do the RNA test as an indicator in a couple of weeks.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

So I talked to a nurse at my doctor's who has been on nPEP themselves for an exposure and he suggested I stay on it. As they told me my risk was low to moderate from a one-off short exposure, taking nPEP he said will also help reduce the risk factor. Would you agree with this? I am not having any serious side effects, so can cope with the medication.

The anxiety though is quite debilitating. Are there any support groups on here for people like me who are suffering from the anxiety that comes with not knowing?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

It only makes your risk higher if the gonorrhea was pre-existing in you and only if it is rectal gonorrhea.

If it is penile gonorrhea, you could have gotten it while being blown. Oral gonorrhea is fairly common and commonly undiagnosed. Penile gonorrhea would have had no impact on your dipping risk.

As we always tell people, the other STIs are MUCH more easily transmitted than hiv could ever hope to be, so you need to test for them regularly as well. Things like gonorrhea and chlamydia often have no symptoms, so you need to be tested for them even if you have no symptoms.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Finally got the results back from the rectal culture and it was negative for any stds which is a big relief. My question Ann is if the penile gonorrhea was pre-existing would that raise the risk of the 'dipping' incident or is it only if it had been rectal gonorrhea that would have increased the risk?

I have asked the doctor if he can ascertain when I got the penile gonorrhea as I had no symptoms prior to this exposure.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

A theoretical question - is there a higher risk of transmitting hiv through being the insertive partner when they are a gonorrhea carrier? The reason I ask is that I did have some memory lapse that night, and don't know if I could have gotten it that way. I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything like that, but wanted to ask.

I've been having a headache for a few days and some weird feelings in my body, but the nurse I spoke to sounded like they are unrelated to ARS or seroconversion.

Based on what the nurse said and you kind people on here, it sounds like my risk remains low/moderate, and I am feeling better mentally, so will continue with the PEP until the end of the 28 days, and then test after that.

The insertive partner is more likely to transmit hiv if he has another STI.

You most likely got penile gonorrhea through unprotected intercourse where you were the insertive partner or through getting a blowjob. It is quite possible to have gonorrhea in your throat and transmit it to anyone you blow.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thanks Ann. I still want to clarify one thing in my mind. You say I could have gotten penile gonorrhea from unsafe anal sex, which I haven't done prior to that exposure but could have done on that night. So two questions relating to that:

1. Is it possible to be infected with penile gonorrhea and HIV at the same exposure and does it make HIV transmission more likely this way?

2. If I already had penile gonorrhea and had unsafe insertive anal intercourse would this increase my risk for HIV transmission.

I really don't think I has insertive intercourse thar night but just crossing all possibilities.