tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post4643206798478341190..comments2015-07-09T00:01:19.231-05:00Comments on Gray Matter: Why Genesis Still Sucks.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-74964338681420398522010-08-04T12:47:47.643-05:002010-08-04T12:47:47.643-05:00Ah, I am not implying that Genesis is a strong tal...Ah, I am not implying that Genesis is a strong talent, by any means. I do think it has improved in worth and I also think that it&#39;s not a huge worry for Boomkins at the moment. What I mean by that is, in an ideal world I&#39;d like to see more out of the talent. But as I mentioned, I think there are bigger black holes in our talent tree that need to be considered such as Euphorias interaction with Eclipse while the Eclipse buff is active, Lunar Shower/Blessing of the Grove being too weak, Starfall lacking oomph, Owlkin Frenzy still being shaped as a PvP talent (unless how it procs is significantly changed, Moonkin Form lacking any true interaction, and Fungal Growth having no forseeable PvE application (maybe for fights like Faction Champs...)<br /><br />I gotta say that I think the design goal for DoT spells have changed. I think the fact that they allowed all DoTs to crit and be affected by haste indicates that they are anticipating a higher contribution of damage from these spells. But in reality, any spell that only buffs our DoTs will seem like a small &#39;per point&#39; increase due to the nature of DoTs (the implied cooldown I spoke of earlier). The wording of the Eclipse tooltip at this moment implies that the respective DoT will benefit from the Eclipse bonus as well. This will help our DoTs stay competitive. With so much being pushed on DoTs (or so it seems), they could become too dangerous outside of PvE settings were Genesis to get buffed significantly.<br /><br />On the whole, I&#39;d much rather see Genesis carry over something like Improved Insect Swarm (although I think that should also be inaccessible to other specs, so it&#39;s a bad place for it). A flat percentage on DoT damage will likely always feel small and seem under-represented on a per point value.Relevarthttp://www.relevarts-druid-reliquary.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-12123565055169634022010-08-04T12:08:03.101-05:002010-08-04T12:08:03.101-05:00I think the assumption that the per talent point d...I think the assumption that the per talent point damage budget is going up may be wrong. The way I understood the move to a smaller talent tree was that half of the talent tree budget was moved into mastery (or specialization, or whatever they are calling it now). Thus each remaining talent still has the same budget of ~1%/point. The mantra of &quot;more choice/more fun&quot; further suggested that utility rather than simple dps might consume more of the budget.<br /><br />That doesn&#39;t change your analysis of genesis of course.paperclipnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-65623633732040191872010-08-04T05:46:18.200-05:002010-08-04T05:46:18.200-05:00@Gevlon
Not necessarily. Right now they&#39;re on...@Gevlon<br /><br />Not necessarily. Right now they&#39;re only bigger DPET when they run the whole duration on the target. As in, theres not a single tick of the dot lost. I haven&#39;t actually found any adds in ICC(except Sindra tombs, but they die too fast anyway) that live longer than the dot duration is. So right now for moonkins the smartest thing is to keep spamming nukes.Meikonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-7291963875903085252010-08-04T03:50:19.726-05:002010-08-04T03:50:19.726-05:00At first, I assume you have 56.88 Crit CHANCE and ...At first, I assume you have 56.88 Crit CHANCE and not Crit RATING.<br /><br />Also, the value of DoTs depend on the number of targets. Due to their high DPET, they are preferred when several (but not many) targets are present, for example LK+valky, LK+ghost or Sindy+tomb. <br /><br />We don&#39;t know how much Blizzard will rely on multi-target fights, therefore how much DoTs will be worthy.Gevlonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-83718465207081634502010-08-03T15:32:45.671-05:002010-08-03T15:32:45.671-05:00@Erdluf
I made the same assumption as you, though...@Erdluf<br /><br />I made the same assumption as you, though I am not real worried about the current design of the talent tree. If this tree went live then I would have big concerns, but I think they are still playing with the numbers at this point.<br /><br />@Relevart<br /><br />The trigger for my post was that both you and Qieth commented that the value of our DoTs has increased significantly. Given the context think you are impling that Genesis is now a strong talent because our DoTs are significantly stronger.<br /><br />In my opinion that is an incorrect conclusion because are a relatively small portion of our rotation.<br /><br />I also disagree that using today&#39;s percentages is wrong. I know it isn&#39;t ideal, but it is a good indication of what Blizzards design goals have been historically. Of course, history isn&#39;t necessarily an indication of future design, but so far the only thing we&#39;ve seen that indicates any kind of shift are a few early Beta builds which could easily be untuned and misleading.<br /><br />At this point I think it is a little early to assume that Nukes are going to represent a smaller part of our rotation. They have only just started putting numbers to Eclipse. Mastery Rating was only added recently as well. Not to mention that you can&#39;t level to 85 yet and no testing has happened in actual raid situations as far as I&#39;m aware. Using the current live percentages may not be ideal, but using the current beta numbers is probably equally misleading given the stage of development.<br /><br />I&#39;m not looking for anything out of Genesis actually. As long as our DPS is competetive I don&#39;t really care how we get there. My point is that Genesis should be evaluated honestly and realisticaly. The arguement that DoTs are now strong there for Genesis is now strong is completely incorrect. Stronger DoTs has improved Genesis, but it has been so weak that even doubling or tripling is value does little for the relative value of the talent at least in historical terms. I don&#39;t care if we pick it up or not. I will pick it up if it is the best available talent, that doesn&#39;t mean it isn&#39;t a weak talent.<br /><br />All that said, it is quite possible that my expectations are out of wack. Blizzard could vary well be trying to lower the impact that talents have on player DPS. In such a situation then Genesis may seem more balanced. However, that will be hard to determine until we see a more polished design for Moonkin.Graylohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12928540421337175942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-33974447314536837892010-08-03T14:44:33.047-05:002010-08-03T14:44:33.047-05:00Both of our main nukes have lost significant stren...Both of our main nukes have lost significant strength and when Eclipse is implemented, it will come at a lower value than before. So using todays percentages to talk about the damage distribution is wrong. I&#39;m carrying a static spellpower close to what you have raid buffed over on the Beta server and I haven&#39;t seen a Starfire crit over 16k. Wrath is a horrid spell that has a greater MPCT and lower DPCT than Starfire, making it an even poorer choice. The DPS of both Starfire and Wrath is incredibly poor over on Beta right now and the dev silence in response to our feedback is a cause for concern.<br /><br />With the introduction of Starsurge and a scaling Eclipse model that can be boosted through mastery, I am not expecting our baseline spells to become much more powerful. This is to separate Balance druids from other druids casting offensive spells. <br /><br />I&#39;m not sure what you&#39;re looking for out of Genesis, but there will always be a weakest DPS talent. Currently, I don&#39;t think that&#39;s Genesis. But even if it is, where else would you want to place the points? Frankly, the problem with DoTs isn&#39;t the damage they do, but its the lack of synergy within the rotation. DoTs will always seem to play a &quot;small&quot; role in the overall DPS due to the fact that to get the most out of them, we are required to let them run for a long time, effectively placing a cooldown on them.<br /><br />If I were to focus my ire on a talent buffing DoTs, it would be either Lunar Shower or Blessing of the Grove, both of which are problematic in terms of actual benefit within the Moonkin rotation.Relevarthttp://www.relevarts-druid-reliquary.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3232240169123589462.post-84746078987123230312010-08-03T14:15:03.359-05:002010-08-03T14:15:03.359-05:00When they announced they&#39;d be reducing the tal...When they announced they&#39;d be reducing the talent count, I assumed they&#39;d be making them stronger, point-for-point. That may have been a bad assumption.<br /><br />Furor is stronger (because Int is stronger). Genesis is stronger, but still terrible. BoP is stronger, in a weird sort of way. Solar Beam, Lunar Shower and Fungal Growth are very strong utilities, but are pretty weak &quot;turret PvE&quot; abilities.<br /><br />There isn&#39;t any other Balance talent that feels stronger, point-for-point than its LK version (or something it replaced).<br /><br />I don&#39;t mean to whine. I really hope to have some fun with our new &quot;utility&quot; and other changes.<br /><br />I guess I&#39;m saying that even though a min/max PvE build may include Genesis, I really hope and expect to spend my points elsewhere (sometimes it is good to be a casual player).Erdlufnoreply@blogger.com