Have any questions about the novel? Want to know whether a particular event only occurred in SGYY while not in SGZ? Please ask all your questions related to the three kingdoms era here, and please state whether your question is concerning SGYY (San Guo Yan Yi) Or SGZ (San Guo Zhi)

Starting from today (14/08/05), this beginning post of the questions thread will be edited continuously with links to questions and their answers. The progress may be slow, but eventually we will have an archive of every question ever asked in this thread. The work will be done by myself and several other moderators and administrators. Questions which don't have answers beneath them are those which haven't yet been answered.

Note to moderators and administrators: the current page to carry on from is page number 31.

1)Zhou Yu's plans to <i>help</i> Liu Bei attack YiaZhou. I already know how Zhou Yu's plans were portrayed in SGYY, but I'm not sure of the facts on SGZ and any other historical sources. Reading through the some of the SGZ bio's I only have the limited translations that were found on the KMA site. From the debate with Mengdez New Book, I have discovered there is more to this from what I know. So I would like to know more on this particular subject according to history.

2)The marriage in regards to Sun Shang Xiang. In SGYY she married with Liu Bei in Wu territories, according to Zhou Yu's "fair maiden ruse". But it was said that Sun Quan sent her to Liu Beit to be married. So I would like to know historicially how this marriage turned out.

3)Guan Yu's supposed taking someone's wife while in the services of Cao Cao.

4)Zhou Cang was said to be not in history. So was he someone that LGZ made up or was it in fact some unknown character that was given a name by LGZ or altered.

5)The NanMan campaigns by Zhuge Liang. Was it only something that occurred in SGYY, I have not read much about it on the KMA's SGZ bios.

6)Sima Yi's speech to his sons on his deathbed. According to SGYY his speech went something like this "I have served the Wei house loyally, and I expect you [his sons] to do the same. But as the story unfolds, the ruling house of Wei was overthrowed by Jin. So was Sima Yi's speech only something that was made up to make him more honorable in his death? Because he did set up his family to become the rulers. (Jin replacing Wei, but the actual overthrow was done by his sons, and his grandson Sima Yan became the first emperor)

7)Zhuge Liang's summoning of the winds at Chi Bi. It is easy to see that LGZ overexaggerated when he said Zhuge actually summoned the winds. But in the novel LGZ also stated that Zhuge calculated the approximate time that the winds will blow, so that would contradict LGZ stated with the actual summoning of the winds. Now historically where did Zhou Yu find the actual information for the day that the winds would blow? He himself did know. And I highly doubt that he asked a fisherman or one of the locals nearby. Because wasn't it said that there hasn't been a southwest wind blowing in that area in winter (I think it's winter during the battle of Chi Bi) for a long time. So would the assumption that Zhuge Liang actually did the calculations historically be more correct?

8)The Yellow Turban Rebellion. LGZ overexaggerated on the rebellion, but what about the historical aspect to it? Because there was an actual rebellion that took place that paved the way for the Three Kingdoms event to take place.

9)The love triangle between Cao Pi(ZiHuan), Zhen Ji, and Cao Zhi (ZiJian). The actual tale of the three wasn't directly stated in SGYY, but was stated in the movie series derived from SGYY.

10)Cao Cao setting out to massacre XuZhou in retalion on Tao Qian for the murder of his father Cao Song (I think that was his name)

jiuwan wrote:1)Zhou Yu's plans to <i>help</i> Liu Bei attack YiaZhou. I already know how Zhou Yu's plans were portrayed in SGYY, but I'm not sure of the facts on SGZ and any other historical sources. Reading through the some of the SGZ bio's I only have the limited translations that were found on the KMA site. From the debate with Mengdez New Book, I have discovered there is more to this from what I know. So I would like to know more on this particular subject according to history.

He didn't. It was Zhou Yu's plan to attack Yizhou for Wu via Nanjun commandery, however, he died before the plan could be carried out, and Wu had no commander capable of such a move at that time, so they handed Nanjun over to Liu Bei.

jiuwan wrote:2)The marriage in regards to Sun Shang Xiang. In SGYY she married with Liu Bei in Wu territories, according to Zhou Yu's "fair maiden ruse". But it was said that Sun Quan sent her to Liu Beit to be married. So I would like to know historicially how this marriage turned out.

I'll get back to you on this one once I look it up in GOS.

3)Guan Yu's supposed taking someone's wife while in the services of Cao Cao.

He didn't. He actually asked for a certain women as wife while they were taking Xuzhou(that was Cao Cao in concert with Liu Bei) from Lu Bu(I forget who's wife she was previously), but Cao Cao became suspicious of it because he was so insistent on it, so he checked her out, found her hot, and took her for himself.

4)Zhou Cang was said to be not in history. So was he someone that LGZ made up or was it in fact some unknown character that was given a name by LGZ or altered.

Someone made up, but I don't think by LGZ. I believe he was part of the legends surrounding Guan Yu prior to LGZs writing of SGYY.

5)The NanMan campaigns by Zhuge Liang. Was it only something that occurred in SGYY, I have not read much about it on the KMA's SGZ bios.

Steve(SHZLD told me a lot about this). I'll ask him about it again, and get back to you on it.

6)Sima Yi's speech to his sons on his deathbed. According to SGYY his speech went something like this "I have served the Wei house loyally, and I expect you [his sons] to do the same. But as the story unfolds, the ruling house of Wei was overthrowed by Jin. So was Sima Yi's speech only something that was made up to make him more honorable in his death? Because he did set up his family to become the rulers. (Jin replacing Wei, but the actual overthrow was done by his sons, and his grandson Sima Yan became the first emperor)

No idea, although I have a good idea of who to ask about this.

7)Zhuge Liang's summoning of the winds at Chi Bi. It is easy to see that LGZ overexaggerated when he said Zhuge actually summoned the winds. But in the novel LGZ also stated that Zhuge calculated the approximate time that the winds will blow, so that would contradict LGZ stated with the actual summoning of the winds. Now historically where did Zhou Yu find the actual information for the day that the winds would blow? He himself did know. And I highly doubt that he asked a fisherman or one of the locals nearby. Because wasn't it said that there hasn't been a southwest wind blowing in that area in winter (I think it's winter during the battle of Chi Bi) for a long time. So would the assumption that Zhuge Liang actually did the calculations historically be more correct?

No, Zhou Yu figured it out.

8)The Yellow Turban Rebellion. LGZ overexaggerated on the rebellion, but what about the historical aspect to it? Because there was an actual rebellion that took place that paved the way for the Three Kingdoms event to take place.

LGZ actually left out some of the more significant YT rebel commanders. There were two in GOS that whooped Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun a few times until the two teamed up to defeat them. I'll look up their names and get back to you.

9)The love triangle between Cao Pi(ZiHuan), Zhen Ji, and Cao Zhi (ZiJian). The actual tale of the three wasn't directly stated in SGYY, but was stated in the movie series derived from SGYY.

Highly questionable.

10)Cao Cao setting out to massacre XuZhou in retalion on Tao Qian for the murder of his father Cao Song (I think that was his name)

What about it?

98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.

jiuwan wrote:1)Zhou Yu's plans to <i>help</i> Liu Bei attack YiaZhou. I already know how Zhou Yu's plans were portrayed in SGYY, but I'm not sure of the facts on SGZ and any other historical sources. Reading through the some of the SGZ bio's I only have the limited translations that were found on the KMA site. From the debate with Mengdez New Book, I have discovered there is more to this from what I know. So I would like to know more on this particular subject according to history.

Okay, I can only presume you are talking about Yi Province..so. Zhou Yu proposed a plan to Sun Quan to invade Yi Province together with Sun Yu, Sun Quan's cousin. I don't remember him discussing with with Liu Bei. Zhou Yu died and the plan was aborted.

jiuwan wrote: 2)The marriage in regards to Sun Shang Xiang. In SGYY she married with Liu Bei in Wu territories, according to Zhou Yu's "fair maiden ruse". But it was said that Sun Quan sent her to Liu Beit to be married. So I would like to know historicially how this marriage turned out.

This marriage was probably concluded when Liu Bei went to see Sun Quan about borrowing Nan Commandery. Zhou Yu was dead by then so I guess that answers the other part of it.

jiuwan wrote:4)Zhou Cang was said to be not in history. So was he someone that LGZ made up or was it in fact some unknown character that was given a name by LGZ or altered.

All I know that he has no individual biography in Sanguo Zhi. You can read Guan Yu's too see if he is in there. Doubt it though.

jiuwan wrote:5)The NanMan campaigns by Zhuge Liang. Was it only something that occurred in SGYY, I have not read much about it on the KMA's SGZ bios.

Of course it really happened. Zhuge Liang enslaved the south because he needed manpower and the natural resources from that region. It was common back then to take control over natives like that.

jiuwan wrote:6)Sima Yi's speech to his sons on his deathbed. According to SGYY his speech went something like this "I have served the Wei house loyally, and I expect you [his sons] to do the same. But as the story unfolds, the ruling house of Wei was overthrowed by Jin. So was Sima Yi's speech only something that was made up to make him more honorable in his death? Because he did set up his family to become the rulers. (Jin replacing Wei, but the actual overthrow was done by his sons, and his grandson Sima Yan became the first emperor)

I haven't read Jinshu so I couldn't say for sure. But it sounds like it was made up to make Sima Yi a visionary of some sort.

jiuwan wrote:7)Zhuge Liang's summoning of the winds at Chi Bi. It is easy to see that LGZ overexaggerated when he said Zhuge actually summoned the winds. But in the novel LGZ also stated that Zhuge calculated the approximate time that the winds will blow, so that would contradict LGZ stated with the actual summoning of the winds. Now historically where did Zhou Yu find the actual information for the day that the winds would blow? He himself did know. And I highly doubt that he asked a fisherman or one of the locals nearby. Because wasn't it said that there hasn't been a southwest wind blowing in that area in winter (I think it's winter during the battle of Chi Bi) for a long time. So would the assumption that Zhuge Liang actually did the calculations historically be more correct?

The Zhuge Liang Borrowing the winds story is completely fake. Zhuge Liang didn't do any calculations at all. There is no mention of wind problems in SGZ Wu, and I don't remember seeing much about it in the book of Shu. Sure the area was famous for it's sudden climatic changes, but that doesn't explain much.All the stories around Chibi are most Yuan era dramas. (I will post a collection of those on KMA soon)

jiuwan wrote:8)The Yellow Turban Rebellion. LGZ overexaggerated on the rebellion, but what about the historical aspect to it? Because there was an actual rebellion that took place that paved the way for the Three Kingdoms event to take place.

jiuwan wrote:9)The love triangle between Cao Pi(ZiHuan), Zhen Ji, and Cao Zhi (ZiJian). The actual tale of the three wasn't directly stated in SGYY, but was stated in the movie series derived from SGYY.

As far as I know, Cao Zhi was in love with Zhen Ji, but she was given to Cao Pi because he was the eldest.

jiuwan wrote:10)Cao Cao setting out to massacre XuZhou in retalion on Tao Qian for the murder of his father Cao Song (I think that was his name)

What is the question? Did it happen? Yes. For Tao Qian? Probably not.

He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it.
-孔夫子

I was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference between Lu Xun in the Three Kingdoms Novel, and in actual life. And...what is SGYY anf SGZ? I feel like a horses patoot asking, it seems like everyone knows but me.

Warlord Lu Xun wrote:I was wondering if anyone could tell me the difference between Lu Xun in the Three Kingdoms Novel, and in actual life. And...what is SGYY anf SGZ? I feel like a horses patoot asking, it seems like everyone knows but me.

San Guo Yan Yi is Romance of the Three Kingdoms, the novel written by Luo Guanzhong.
San Guo Zhi is the historical record that San Guo Yan Yi is based on.

Lu Xun's SGZ biography is quite long, but my new biography for Lu Xun can be expected somewhere next month.

He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it.
-孔夫子

The Qiao Sisters:
For one, how do pronounce their names?? They are the only ones I can't pronounce, especially Xiao.
Who is their father?
What did he do?
I know their real names arent Xiao and Da, they mean older and younger I believe.
Which is the older one?

jiuwan wrote:2)The marriage in regards to Sun Shang Xiang. In SGYY she married with Liu Bei in Wu territories, according to Zhou Yu's "fair maiden ruse". But it was said that Sun Quan sent her to Liu Beit to be married. So I would like to know historicially how this marriage turned out.

I don't think much is known about the marriage. Lady Sun was married to Liu Bei, and later returned to Wu when Liu Bei was attacking Yi Zhou.

Fa Zheng's bio mentions Lady Sun being very boyish and had many guards, and whenever Liu Bei went into her room he became anxious,

In ZYBZ in Zhao Yun's bio it mentions Sun Quan calling back Lady Sun; originally Lady Sun wanted to return with Liu Shan but Zhao Yun took Liu Shan away. ZYBZ isn't very credible though, but this story isn't too unbelievable.

Not much else is said about Lady Sun other than I remember that someone else's bio mentioned her returning to Wu after Liu Bei entered Yi Zhou. This kind of stuff usually isn't too important for SGZ bios to elaborate on, since the marriage wasn't all that significant.

jiuwan wrote:5)The NanMan campaigns by Zhuge Liang. Was it only something that occurred in SGYY, I have not read much about it on the KMA's SGZ bios.

Zhuge Liang pacifying Nanman was mentioned in his SGZ bio, only in one line though. Pei's notes in his bios (not included in the translated version) based on HJCQ mentions Zhuge Liang and Ma Su's exchange of wanting to capture the heart of Nanman instead of wiping them out, and it also mentions Zhuge Liang capturing and releasing Meng Huo seven times.

jiuwan wrote:6)Sima Yi's speech to his sons on his deathbed. According to SGYY his speech went something like this "I have served the Wei house loyally, and I expect you [his sons] to do the same. But as the story unfolds, the ruling house of Wei was overthrowed by Jin. So was Sima Yi's speech only something that was made up to make him more honorable in his death? Because he did set up his family to become the rulers. (Jin replacing Wei, but the actual overthrow was done by his sons, and his grandson Sima Yan became the first emperor)

I checked Jin Shu and I don't see any record of Sima Yi saying that, so I'm assuming that he never said that before dying.

Warlord Lu Xun wrote:The Qiao Sisters:For one, how do pronounce their names?? They are the only ones I can't pronounce, especially Xiao.Who is their father? What did he do? I know their real names arent Xiao and Da, they mean older and younger I believe. Which is the older one?

Qiao is pronounced something like "Chi-ee-ow"

Xiao is pronounced something like "Shi-ee-ow", and Da is just pronounced "da".

I don't think their father did anything significant. Zhou Yu's bio refers to him as "Qiao Gong" (喬公) which is a respectful way of refering to him and not his real name. I'm not too sure what his real name is; I think it's Qiao Mao but I'm not certain.