I wonder how easy it will be for Sam to get a job as a starter next season. There is a lot of risk with him.
I think Case and Teddy will be here next season. I think Sam will be in Denver or Washington next season.

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The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." ‪#‎SKOL2017 #BringitHome‬

Whether or not Keenum is capable of leading us in the playoffs to some wins is a separate question of whether or not it's best to let him play the remainder of the in season games.
With 9 wins we could probably coast into the playoffs with Kyle Sloter at QB at this point (not that we should).

I think Keenum played fantastic so far, here is my scouting report on him:
pros
-Elite escapability inside and outside of the pocket
-great mobility
-great ability to make throws outside of the pocket
-excellent reads
-aggressive decision maker but not wreckless
-great at stepping up in the pocket
-can make accurate deep and intermediate passes when he has protection, but has to be able to step into the throw
-not afraid to throw on the run while taking a hit
-has athletism to pick up the first down with his legs
-Can make up for his lack of pinpoint accuracy by manipulating the defense with his legs and buying time.
-Can step up and make a throw outside of the pocket while getting hit or inside of the pocket if the player has defender beat.
-intelligent
cons
-More than adequate but not fantastic arm strength and velocity
-lacks pinpoint precision on shorter passes.
-As a result of the first two may not be able to drive the ball into tight windows between tight coverage.
-lack of armstrength and pinpoint percision begin to show up if he doesn't have a pocket to throw, or ability to find open WRs.
-Has history of forcing things late in games at times throughout his career.

So far Pat Shurmer and the Vikings offense has masked his weaknesses and accentuated his strengths. As long as he has a pocket to step up into or ability to move and WRs are beating defenders by a step or two and the run game is causing LBers and safety to bite on play action, he can be a winning QB for us.

The concern I have is that every time we play another game with Keenum a team has a little more tape with a little different strategy against him and it seems like teams are adjusting late to him. He has made a few counter adjustments, but if an opponent were to eliminate your best 10 plays you come up with your next best 10 plays against the counter strategy and then they try to adjust and so on. This cannot necessarily go on forever unless Keenum is the second coming of Kurt Warner.

What I saw particularly in the 4th quarter vs the Lions was the Lions make an adjustment where they would bring 3 inside pass rushers by either stunting a defensive end to come inside between the two DTs or blitzing a LBer. Rather than try to break through the OL they pushed the OL back into Keenum and made sure he couldn't step up. The cost of this is more time to read the field but with a soft coverage look it also took more time for WRs to clear the zones. I also saw on LB inside blitzes one of the 2 defensive ends would maintain outside leverage and work to contain if/when Keenum began moving as opposed to aggressively trying to sack him. The other end wouldn't worry about breaking contain. When the LBer didn't blitz there would be one side of the field that wasn't containing and one side that on QB movement would begin containing.

The result was VERY effective because Keenum had to sit flat footed as he felt pressure so he couldn't step up and throw which really helps QBs that lack elite armstrength. That pressure wasn't always the type that results in sacks but they mixed some more traditional pass rushes and blitzes in as well.

Given where we were in the game, he opted to be smart with the ball and throw it away rather than force it or take a sack or throw away from the defender even if it was likely to go incomplete but these are the types of adjustments that get on tape and other defenses will try variations of which may diminish our chances in the playoffs as we are forced to make adjustments.

Also, for every Kurt Warner, Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson that lead their team to the superbowl, there are several Brian Hoyers and Matt Schuabs and Mike Glennon's and such that look good in substitution but can't deliver once teams figure them out. Fortunately, there are also Tom Brady, Ben Rothlisberger and Russel Wilson who got it done their rookie year before they were who they are now. There are also several Trent Dilfers in 2000 and Peyton Manning in 2015 when he was a shell of his former self that win because of defenses.

There's plenty of reasons to think the Vikings can win and I'm certainly in the corner of whoever is the guy at the time. Nevertheless, there are several strategic reasons to play Teddy, many of which have nothing to do with being anti-Keenum or thinking Teddy is automatically the better QB.

1)There is a decent chance we may eventually play either the Falcons or the Panthers in the playoffs, so there's serious risk of winning the battle but losing the war here... or more precisely increase our chances of winning the next two weeks at expense of decreasing our probability of winning in the playoffs. It's one thing for the Lions to have tape on how to run a cover 2 or cover 3, some teams will be man coverage teams, others may lack the personnel to pressure the QB despite soft coverage and seeing a team with a gameplan isn't the same as replaying a team that eventually at least figured out how to contain (but not beat) us.
2)We already know Keenum can give us a chance of winning against tough opponents (Rams, Redskins, Lions) as well as some non zero chance of losing (Lions and if you count the Steelers I wouldn't.). There's nothing left for him to gain in terms of our playoff probability IF all things remain equal and no reason to risk injury. Of course, a first round bye means a lot and so it may be worth the risk.
3)There is a mixture between comfort and deception. You want your offensive coordinator to have a good idea of the best plays you have and the player to be comfortable with every possible adjustment, without having to make them. Eventually the defenses figure out what your best plays are and find a way to diminish them. I'd say more Keenum only strains what teams may do to counter him, especially when we have such a good offense surrounding the QB and defense. He could be the next Warner, but you're taking a risk he isn't a handful of other QBs who saw success until they were figured out. Even eventually great QBs often have a sophomore slump after a good first year because of the adjustments opponents make.
4)He may get hurt - Not only is more action increased risk of injury, but you'd ideally like for Teddy to reach comfort within the offense without defenses having a good idea of our best plays with him in a game setting.
5)Long term evaluation. I get everyone saying this is our year and neglecting or at least devaluing this part and that is fine. But practice is NOT in game setting. Many QBs reportedly look fantastic in practice but don't translate and other QBs shine under the lights. Preseason is not regular season and regular season is not the playoffs. The Falcons and Panthers are the next two opponents and the ONLY two playoff opponents left. There's a good long term value to evaluate a recovered from injury Teddy for a potential long term contract. He has never had the luxury of such a good OL, of the reported increased arm strength and deep ball accuracy. Teddy has proven pinpoint accuracy on shorter throws, intermediate throwing ability and mobility and escapability and toughness under (lots of) pressure. We don't know if he is the same in terms of mental toughness because rehab and recover was a tough thing psychologically for him. But if the reported increased velocity and arm strength and deep ball accuracy are added to everything he WAS in 2015 or better yet everything we thought he was going to be in 2016 before the injury he checks all the boxes Keenum checks and then some and you don't have to worry as much about the gameplanning and counters.
6)Bradford may return- Bradford is on IR but may return for the playoffs. Even if Keenum is your #1 heading into the playoffs, you have to be prepared for the event that things change and you want more information.
7)Morbid curiosity - I'd be lying if this didn't play a role for several people that suggest Teddy should be given a chance independent of Case's success. People want to see if Teddy can still be our franchise QB, if Teddy can prove the believers in him right.
8)The perfect storyline- I think an under-rated component is the storyline I could be totally crazy about this. With all other things being equal or even approximately equal, the better story wins. You have greater fan support, more people that are pulling for you and a psychological mindset and unshakable faith that allows teams to move mountains. Teams even subconsciously feel better about losing to a great story and the winning teams feel it is their duty to fulfill this story. It's like the world conspires to make it happen. Not every David beats Goliath, you have to at least have some reasonable chance and skill relative to the other team, but the good stories have the momentum behind them as long as the players don't get too high about their own success. Last year Tom Brady's storyline was that he was against all odds, had a chip on his shoulder, coming to prove the world and Goddell that he was going to get revenge for the suspension, going to prove all his doubters that said he no longer could play at a high level at his age and going to create one of the greatest comebacks in superbowl history and cement his legend as a hall of famer with a hall of fame coach. It was a story of tremendous will and perseverance. Sometimes you remember the good stories a little better. Eli Manning 10 point underdogs vs the Patriots. Greatest show on turf known for the offense coming up with the big defensive play to stop the Titans by a yard. Peyton Manning going out on top. Both Teddy (comeback story) and Case Keenum (Kurt Warner style Diamond in the rough) are a fantastic storyline as well, but the idea that the comeback player of the year that almost had to have his leg amputated could come back from success would be so inspiring to so many millions of people that you almost have to root for the guy.

J. Kapp 11 wrote:We have a thread called the "Sammy-Teddy-Case thread." It's an entire conversation, complete with 181 replies, that talks mostly about WHEN Teddy takes over the team from the capable, yet backup-QB hands of Case Keenum.

I am here to state in no uncertain terms that this team is now Case Keenum's. Or at least, it had better be.

The man has now had five games with a passer rating north of 100, including three in a row. He's not just managing games ... he's winning them. The Detroit game was all Case, a true tour de force of quarterback play. His 22-yard touchdown pass to Kyle Rudolph was as good a play as you'll see a quarterback make. His avoidance of the rush and laser throw to Adam Thielen in the first quarter was vintage Keenum, a play he's now making regularly. The read-option run for a touchdown completely baffled the Lions. The man played like a top-5 quarterback today, and he's played that way for three straight games. The Vikings have won 7 straight with this man at the helm. We have a great chance at the No. 1 seed.

This is no longer about "seeing what we have in Teddy" or "Case can't lead this team to a deep playoff run so we need to get Teddy in there." As far as I'm concerned, this is Case's team now, for as far as he can take them. As Zimmer said in the locker room after the game: ""We're not playing to get in the tournament. We're playing to f--king win at home." And he can talk that way because the Vikings have what every team in the NFL wants ... confidence in who is taking the snaps at the game’s most important position.

If Teddy Bridgewater never takes a snap this season, it's OK with me. That's not a knock on Teddy. It's affirmation of Case Keenum. The man is not just playing well. He's making a late run at MVP.

And let's all remember ... there was a quarterback nearly 20 years ago who was an undrafted free agent, had been cut by one team, signed as a deep backup by another, and won the MVP and the Super Bowl after replacing the injured starter. His name is Kurt Warner. So don't tell me it can't be done. As a matter of fact, I'm seeing a lot of parallels here. Hard as it is to say, Case Keenum might just win the MVP. Yes, Case Keenum.

The floor is now open for debate.

All I can say, Kapp, is I agree that Keenum's earned the right to keep starting without looking over his shoulder. I read in the Star Tribune today that Zimmer still seems to be hedging his bets about the position. I think that's potentially self-defeating because as you wrote above, Keenum has been playing terrific football. He looks comfortable in the offense and he's been turning potentially negative plays into positive (or even huge) plays. Instead of worrying about who will take over for him, right now the Vikes should be doing backflips that they have him and they should be giving as much consideration to keeping him after this year as they give to Bridgewater or Bradford. He's been giving them what they've been seeking at QB. I don't know if he can sustain it or not but right now, they should roll with it. If his performance falls off a cliff at some point, they can always make a move then but it looks to me like he's responded to the challenge before him and more importantly, it looks like the team has responded to him.

dead_poet wrote:Case is now 2nd in the NFL in total QBR and has three of the top-six too QBR games in the league this year. Add in Sam Bradford and the Vikes have four of the top-10 QBR performances. Until this year Case had been hovering in Christian Ponder territory for his career.

Credit to Case but obviously to this offensive line and Pat Shurmer and Rick Spielman.

Yeah I don't think it's a coincidence that Bradford, Foles, and Keenum have all had their best years when Shurmur was the OC.

Zimmer has already named Keenum the starter against Atlanta, 9 days before the game so I think he's in a similar place as everyone else. The guy has earned the job and short of having a big reason to pull him, will be the guy the rest of the way.

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Case Keenum has played great this season. He is the starting quarterback - not the back-up starting.

As much as I love Teddy, Case is here to stay this year. Looking forward to seeing what happens.

I agree with this 100%.

I'm just riding this wave and watching it at the same time...If he keeps starting, that means the Vikings keep winning and he's playing well, so I'll take that. Still a chunk of season left though, so we'll see how this goes.

S197 wrote:
Yeah I don't think it's a coincidence that Bradford, Foles, and Keenum have all had their best years when Shurmur was the OC.

Zimmer has already named Keenum the starter against Atlanta, 9 days before the game so I think he's in a similar place as everyone else. The guy has earned the job and short of having a big reason to pull him, will be the guy the rest of the way.

9 days. I hope it's not enough to make Keenum comfortable. I think he thrives on being the underdog. Bring on Atlanta.

mike2mike wrote:The concern I have is that every time we play another game with Keenum a team has a little more tape with a little different strategy against him and it seems like teams are adjusting late to him. He has made a few counter adjustments, but if an opponent were to eliminate your best 10 plays you come up with your next best 10 plays against the counter strategy and then they try to adjust and so on. This cannot necessarily go on forever unless Keenum is the second coming of Kurt Warner.

The league now has 10 games worth of tape on Case Keenum, and he's getting BETTER, not worse. Nobody in the NFL has played better than Keenum over the past three weeks. Know who the best quarterback on the field was in Detroit? Not the great Matthew Stafford, but Case Keenum, and it wasn't close. Your argument has merit in theory, but in practice, it's simply not working out that way. He is the No. 2 rated quarterback in the NFL according to ESPN's Total QBR. He's converting third downs at a ridiculous rate, and the Vikings have gone from 27th in the league in red-zone efficiency just 4 weeks ago to top-5 in the NFL, thanks in large part to scoring TDs in 12 of their last 14 trips inside the 20 (and one of those two missed opportunities was the kneel-down at the end of the game yesterday, with the other coming when the Vikings settled for a field goal late when they were obviously running the ball to keep the clock moving). If getting tape on Keenum is supposed to be slowing him down ... well, it's just not working.

To my mind, that should lead fair-minded and logical observers to believe that he's closer to the second coming of Kurt Warner than a journeyman riding a lucky streak.

mike2mike wrote:Both Teddy (comeback story) and Case Keenum (Kurt Warner style Diamond in the rough) are a fantastic storyline as well, but the idea that the comeback player of the year that almost had to have his leg amputated could come back from success would be so inspiring to so many millions of people that you almost have to root for the guy.

So "Teddy coming back would be a better story" is a reason to start him over Case Keenum? Are you actually serious?

You know what would be the most inspiring story to me (and I'll go out on a limb and say 98% of Vikings fans)? That would be the Vikings winning the Super Bowl.

S197 wrote:Zimmer has already named Keenum the starter against Atlanta, 9 days before the game so I think he's in a similar place as everyone else. The guy has earned the job and short of having a big reason to pull him, will be the guy the rest of the way.

My question for Zimm (whom I love, by the way) is simple:

Why haven't you named him the starter for the rest of the season?

This is long past the point where it should be week-to-week. I mean, what more does the guy have to do?

^I think that's a in-the-moment thing to do, Kapp. It's kinda in this phase of sit back and watch, cause Keenum's on a roll. It's just as conceivable that Keenum all of a sudden hits a wall and maybe the Vikings lost a couple or barely squeak by in games despite bad QB play from Keenum. Then what? Zimmer would have to go back on his word and look like a fool. This is a week-to-week game and no one knows that more than those that are in the NFL, so naming Case a starter on a week-to-week basis is fine, in my opinion.

Mothman wrote:All I can say, Kapp, is I agree that Keenum's earned the right to keep starting without looking over his shoulder. I read in the Star Tribune today that Zimmer still seems to be hedging his bets about the position. I think that's potentially self-defeating because as you wrote above, Keenum has been playing terrific football. He looks comfortable in the offense and he's been turning potentially negative plays into positive (or even huge) plays. Instead of worrying about who will take over for him, right now the Vikes should be doing backflips that they have him and they should be giving as much consideration to keeping him after this year as they give to Bridgewater or Bradford. He's been giving them what they've been seeking at QB. I don't know if he can sustain it or not but right now, they should roll with it. If his performance falls off a cliff at some point, they can always make a move then but it looks to me like he's responded to the challenge before him and more importantly, it looks like the team has responded to him.

You hit the nail on the head, Jim ... the TEAM has rallied to Case Keenum in a huge way.

I'm not going to do the work for everybody (like I usually do) and post a bunch of links, but I could point to at least a dozen quotes from Vikings players over the past couple of weeks that prove conclusively they are solidly behind Case Keenum as their quarterback. Even Teddy Bridgewater himself has said Case has earned the job. This isn't a broken-down Tony Romo in the twilight of his career telling the media that Dak Prescott should be the man. It's 25-year-old Teddy Bridgewater, who is dying to play.

Read the quotes from the major sources. Go to Vikings.com and watch the player interviews. These guys love Case Keenum. He sets the example of how to be a pro. Joe Buck said during the broadcast yesterday that players had told him the 4-day week was actually GOOD for Keenum ... because he stays so late every night that at least his workaholic ways would only last 4 days instead of 7. The man is winning games. That's something teammates can rally behind.

He's playing at an extremely high level. He's converting 3rd downs. He's led the Vikings to 12 TDs in their last 14 red-zone possessions. He's doing everything we've been CRYING for in a quarterback for YEARS. Yet the biggest question surrounding the Vikings seems to be exactly WHEN Teddy Bridgewater will replace him. Today, one stupid-a$$ talking head on the radio (the substitute on the Rich Eisen Show) said, "Case Keenum is playing well in November, but we all know it's not possible for him to play at this level in January." And how did he back this brilliant analysis? With stats? With commentary from scouts or GMs or coaches? With anything factual? No. He backed his astute analysis with three words: "It's just not."

PurpleMustReign wrote:Good posts, Jim and Kapp. I wonder if Zimmer isn't just playing games with other teams, when inside he knows Keenum is the man from here on out.

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It all seems weird to me. A couple of weeks ago, when Keenum whipped the Redskins and was named Fed Ex Air Player of the Week, Mike Zimmer said he was "carrying a horseshoe" (meaning he was lucky). When he destroyed the Rams, Zimmer said he had "big balls" (I think that's a compliment, but given how much Zimmer values ball security and stout defense, it feels like a backhanded one).

I'm really hoping he's just keeping Keenum motivated. Because if my coach made that "horseshoe" comment about me when I just put up 35 points in 35 minutes against a good opponent on the road, I'd be a bit pi$$ed.

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Why haven't you named him the starter for the rest of the season?
This is long past the point where it should be week-to-week. I mean, what more does the guy have to do?

J. Kapp 11 wrote:Joe Buck said during the broadcast yesterday that players had told him the 4-day week was actually GOOD for Keenum ... because he stays so late every night that at least his workaholic ways would only last 4 days instead of 7.

It was also said, I think by Keenum himself, that he tends to overthink things so the short week was actually better for him.

I think Case still has the mindset of a backup. I also believe that's why Zimmer hasn't anointed him the starter (among other reasons). He's comfortable with someone breathing down his neck from behind. Like we all said before, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Case Keenum has been and is the quarterback for the 2017 Vikings and it shouldn't be a question anymore. I really like Teddy Bridgewater and I'm happy that he's behind Case should anything happen - but that's where he should stay.

I don't know how anybody can argue that at this point. I don't care what Keenum was or what we thought he was when he was signed but it's time to let the past be the past. What he is so far in 2017 is a very very good quarterback that the Vikings are lucky to have.

"Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

He has done a great job and deserves respect. I'm fine with Teddy on the bench. In fact I think it's the smart thing to do. After his injury is there any other team that's eager to steal him away? I would like to see some depth at the QB position for a change. Granted we don't know how a recovered Teddy will play. I hate to be a harbringer of doom but with the way Keenum lunges head first to get extra yards when he runs the ball Teddy will get his shot to prove himself sooner or later.