uh oh (Home sp2)

Was happily using this computer at a site I normally use, when all froze up. tried CAD and nothing. nada would work. Hit the button, no go, had to shut down at the power bar. fired up again, few minutes went by same thing again. CAD again, no go, hit the shutdown button, it shutdown this time and then rebooted and system started to do a chkdsk., did its thing (to level 4) and back again to normal. Froze again...got a message this time
"UNKNOWN HARD ERROR" thats all nothing else. Had to Shutdown AGAIN at power bar. Awhile later, froze again, same message "unknown hard error". Groaaaaaaannn...
talked to the tech where I bought it (who said he had never heard of this error message) he said, to bring it in. Thats a no brainer..I will for sure. This computer is only 10 months old. So luckily is still under warranty.

Has anyone heard of this error message. It wasn't a blue screen, just a message popup with the warning sign and also a warning sign in the taskbar. It also will boot up and stay going for 20 minutes or so...except this time, been on for a whole hour now. <grin>.
Got everything backed up. So now I wait.. <img src=/S/crossfingers.gif border=0 alt=crossfingers width=17 height=16>
Any idea's except for the obvious one that the harddrive is kicking it.
Thanks
Victoria

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

I have a couple Victoria--

Are you getting no number for an error message anywhere? If so I want you to go to Event Viewer and see what's there under Systems at the time this error occurred. Something's going to be. Look under the other category also.

While you're in Windows for the time it's allowing you, I'd try a system restore to 2-3 days back, or you can hit F8 and try Last Known Good. This error often indicates a hardware problem or mismatch or a driver that's wrong--often attached with some of the numbered errors shown in the links below. It can occur when someone ghosted system settings onto hardware it's not matched for. Since last known good deals fundamentaly with Hardware problems, problematic drivers, or a program that has trashed some of the registry data--it may be quick and appropriate to restore to a configuration before the problem. Hit F8, and then select Last Known Good--if that doesn't do it, then do a System Restore. Once stable, I'd run a chkdsk--yoy'll get the best one booting from the CD to Recovery Console and running chkdsk /r but at least run one:

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

From what I'm reading, while searching your problem, the majority of the time it has to do with Drivers. 2 or 3 had to update thier Video Card Drivers and one had to update his VIA 4-1 Drivers. Have you installed any new Hardware lately or changed anything you can think of? Are you getting any other Numbers with that Error?

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

You can get some detailed info from Event Viewer on this incompatibility. Often and maybe a high percent of the time there is a driver problem behind these errors, but not always--some kind of hardware software incompatibility is often going on. More and more I'm seeing people neglect or not think of Event Viewer as a source of error information that isn't on their screen. It may not have any, but it's often worth a look.

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Thanks gentlemen.
Ok, here is a quick (and I hope brief) explaination. Back in mid July, This all crashed. Error messages at that time pointed to either a hardware problem or a boot sector virus (If I recall 1of the err. msgs. was unmountable boot volume something. Another was similar and they both kept referring back to each other, (when I checked them out in my "Windows XP Annoyances" book). Was getting these everytime I booted up. Last boot, BSD reported "no operating system found". Took it to the tech at store (warranty remember) He of course did not know what exactly happened (did a 3 hour diag. for hardware problems, found none). They did a reinstall (factory CD). At the time I also had 256mgs. ram added. Supposedly was compatible ram for what was needed. (had 128) couple days after I got home I was checking in event viewer and came across error in "system" yellow warning with "disk" as flagged word. below is the screen that opened. Called tech. they said Xp yada yada yada is sensitive and yada yada Don't worry about it. So I haven't, till yesterday. FYI: In reviewing all past events. This has been occuring once or twice a day from then till now. (If this was happening prior to the crash, I don't recall, if I had seen that "disk" flag, I am sure I would have remembered and checked it out) Thats the history.
Cowboy: The only thing I can think of as far as a driver would be my printer. (epson 740 stylus, which when installed, windows found driver !!!! If that is of any consequence) But, this i use a lot and never has it (I think) created issues before July crash till now..although yesterday, I had been using it just before this thing went stupid on me.
The only program I have added in the past few days was a download for IE spell check. Prior to that last d/l'ds were just after I got this back and d/l'd diskeeper lite, regcleaner, adaware those types. And all of the critical updates.
SMBP: I have just done a system restore to the 29th. So we will see how long this stays. The error message when it popped up had no numbers, nothing. Checking in event viewer, the only occurrance noted is the same one that I have been getting now from mid July (as noted above). Also, I had to stop print on something, and that is recorded as well. Checking the other viewers for application and security, there is nothing odd in these. FYI I had done a check disk earlier in the week..Mon. or Tues. It appeared to be ok.
Thats about all I can relate. (all!! hah..got a book going on here <img src=/S/read.gif border=0 alt=read width=19 height=33> )

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

SMBP:
Ran the chkdsk again. Not from the recovery console though. Not been there b/4 (and not to sure on how to use the factory install CD) so used what you see below. Don't know if anything was found or fixed though. The blurb at the end disappeared to quickly for me to read. Is it stored somewhere so I can read it?? I cannot find anything on if this is an option or not.
One last thing, This has been up and running now for 2 hours. (since system restore which I did within 15 minutes or so after starting this first thing this a.m. and reading your comments here). I WAS going to take this to the store this a.m., I think I will wait now until Tuesday (tomorrow the store is closed, labour day.) to see what you guys may come up with. (want amunition for when I go there). I am thinking (for what its worth) that its the new ram. Since this disk error flag, it appears, started going on from when they had it at the store in July. I see a whole pile of error flags (different types-system) from the 14th of July..thats the day they worked on it. I got it back the 16th.
Thats the latest update for now.
Thanks
Victoria

<<<Big Fat Edit>>> When I just now tried to shut down the computer, after I did, start, shutdown, clicked on shutdown and icons went off screen, it just hung. Would not shut down. (had to shutdown at powerbar). I guess the system restore and the chkdsk did not do anything..(should not have bragged about it being ok for 2 hours D'oh) I am now using my husbands laptop with 98 and dialup. ugggghhhh... see ya

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Victoria--

Computer's 10 months old-- came installed XP?/probably bios flashed up to date when you bought it--if not you would have/there are a lot of ram incompatibility issues and cbd much more familiar with those but assume your Tech would not have installed incompatible ram. Have read a lot of unmountable boot volume threads, so I'm linking the google for you to scan some.

Doubt your hard drive is really "dying" or was despite that error message. Cbd will probably comment on that. Hopefully the System Restore will hold, and there is no hard disk damage (referencing both the error message you have in event viewer and the last BSD "no OS found").

I want you to run a chkdsk /r from the Recovery Console if I can get you to do that-and so does Microsoft--look at their KB on the Mount Volume Error--because I think it will be the most effect chkdsk and run a chkdks /r because it will imply/i.e. include "f" and "p". Also check the bios to make sure it recognizes the hard disk--your in Windows so I guess it is now. When you see the Firmware screen--btw what kind of computer because I read a number of different "unmountable boot volume error messages" for different manufacturers as you can see on the goolge link below. Make sure the bios has been flashed or upgraded to XP--again if this was not a used computer but a new one 10 months ago, I assume that had been factory done--check your manufacturer's site if you need to for this.

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

To answer some of your questions. Its was a brand new computer. Brand is E machine. I have factory restore CD's. (2) Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the recovery console cannot be installed with these types of CD's. Therefore, I cannot do the type of chddsk that you want me to. I have read over the great detailed book I got with this (sarcasm intended), it appears my only option would be to follow their instructions to restore. AND I QUOTE:
"If you select "1. RESTORE WINDOWS XP" the followijng message will appear in the screen. To continue the procedures, press any key.
RESTORE HDD DISK CONTENTS FROM CD-ROM
IMPORTANT! Please read the following:
This process will restore the contents of your hard drive to the original state when you acquired this PC. This includes repartitioning the harddrive and reformatting the hard disk.
Press any key to continue.....
END OF QUOTE

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Yep, Yep and Yep. God I hate factory built machines. I wished everyone would just take the time to build their own. If so probably wouldn't have half these problems. Most problems are due to {Pardon me} Cheap <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> being used in these Computers. From the Motherboard and Chipset to the Memory and cheap Hard Drives And CD-Roms. And on top of that they don't even give ya Full Blown Windows CD. Stupid <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> <img src=/w3timages/censored.gif alt=censored border=0> Sorry I'll get back to ya. Right now I gotta go kick something.

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

I don't have experience with Emachines, and the quick and easy way around Cowboydawg's laments in factory built machines--and I understand fully the satisfaction he gets building his own--if everyone invested the time in learning the valuable hardware software info cbd has in building machines day to day it'd be a better world--and he's 100% right. But I have a factory built machine, by Dell, and the way around this is simply to by an OS--you have the option not to have them OEM installed with most OEM's now including Dell, and not pay for them and the recovery discs, and the price difference is de mimimus if you compare them--then you have a real CD. I would agree that I'm always going to find a way to have a CD for XP or Longhorn or whichever OS I use--we see a lot of problems here with lack of certain files or lack of the full blown OS CD.

But that said, right now you may be in fine shape and able to get on with life with that computer. Run the best chdksk you can from the dos prompt or the gui-- because you're fixed we hope.

You may be right on the emachine recovery disc Victoria--it may not have the Recovery Console--by the way if you look at all the KB's and instruction--you have the option either to 1) install it from an XP CD or 2) you can boot to the CD from it and in the literature sometimes the RC from one of these methods works when the RC from another won't which is of course strange.

You have another option--you could borrow an XP CD from a friend and boot to the Recovery Console from that CD.

But if not, then you restored to the 29th--you're working now--run chkdsk /r from the command line and let's see how this plays out. A chkdsk reference is in the post above from Technet and it has several over view links: Also see:

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Dell usually builds pretty good machines, and one of the main reasons is, they allow you to pick and choose what you want to a certain degree. You KINDA get to build your own without building your own. About as close as your going to get without doing it yourself, or having it built Custom by someone like me. Years ago I bought a Dell, but I didn't let them Install Windows. I bought the full Windows Version and installed it myself, at that time is was Win98. Of course a few years later the only thing left in the Dell case, was the Dell case. I completely rebuilt it. <img src=/S/read.gif border=0 alt=read width=19 height=33>

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Victoria--

I didn't read the last post. Perhaps I was posting while you were. So right now if I understand you correctly, you are hung in shutdown. Turn the computer off if you haven't with the button if you have to. Can you use F8 on that emachine to go to the Windows XP Advanced Options Menu and access Last Known Good or Safe Mode With A Command Prompt? Try to F8 and use Last Known Good--I recommended it first post for this apparent hardware/software conflict or driver problem. Then if it won't work, and LNK is known not to work, but it might, see if you can F8 to Safe Mode with a Command Prompt and then run system restore from the command prompt--I have had a lot of luck with a number of machines with that. Here's some reference:

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Victoria. From what I am reading, when you took it back to the store they added some more Ram and reinstalled WinXP. So now we have more Ram and a Fresh Install of WinXP. But you are still having problems, which to me points to a Hardware Problem. My questions would be, what speed Ram did they Install and did it match the existing Ram that was already installed? Is Bios setup correctly for that Ram? Is your CPU getting proper cooling? One way to check that is to turn it off for an hour or two, turn it back on and see how long it runs before it starts Freezing up. If it has been off for awhile and seems to run fine and then starts Freezing up again, could be A CPU Heatsink Problem. Also could be that you just got a hold of a bad Motherboard or Chipset. If I had it in my hands I could run some test on these things, but I don't so we will have to go by the process of elimination.
1st thing would be to turn off the Machine, unhook everything not needed to bootup, such as Printer,Fax,Modem, and External Devices. All you need is your Mouse and Keyboard. If you were more familier with the inside of the Computer i would even have you unplug your CD-Roms, but since you are not we will just leave those alone. Now turn the Machine back on and see what happens. Let it run for awhile to make sure there is no overheating problem. Then if everything is working OK. Start by pluging your Modem back in if you have one and reboot. Run it for awhile and then plug one thing in at a time rebooting each time and running it for awhile. The first time you plug something in and reboot and the problem starts, we have found the problem. If that doesn't do it then we will start with Devices under Device Manager ,and do the same thing. We will find the problem this way I can tell you now.

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

Victoria--

BTW--I'm sure you have a backup, but if you don't and can get to Windows, I'd make one. I'd do the hardware troubleshooting cbd suggests--we all know their is probably a hardware problem and it may be the disc and a driver or both, or ram mismatch, but these error messages don't come from one cause all the time. You rate hardware troubleshooting--and I'd try to get them to replace the disc later, but after you do it, you're not going to hurt yourself trying Last Known Good--wouldn've been worth trying. If you can later get into Safe Mode with a command prompt, you can run a lot more commands then you can from the Recovery Console which is limited to 13 dos commands, and I only wanted to run Chkdsk /r from it as your best chkdsk but you can run one other ways, and I can give you a screen shot site that will answer your questions on that gui chkdsk and walk you through it.

Recapping the information we have in error data is:

1)"Unknown Hard Error" 2)Mid July "Messages at that time pointed to either a hardware problem or a boot sector virus" but you may not remember what were the exact messages that did this then 3) "Last Boot BSD reported no Operating System found" 4) "I recall a lot of unmountable boot volume..." messages mid-July 5) Factory re-install of Windows XP plus 256mb of somekind of ram installed to add to 128mb of some kind of ram 6) every two days Event Viewer has had a yellow error in System with disk flagged at least once or twice a day since the crash which reads at Event Viewer Message Properties: "The driver has detected that device has predited that it will fail. Immediately back up your data and replace your hard disk drive. A failure may be imminent." 7) Printer not a problem and using it just before the crash--which may or may not bring in the printer--and it probably isn't printer troubleshooting we need now. You could also check Device Manager to make sure you have no bangs on your drivers and driver properties of key drivers.

Most of the google threads indicate that when you see this error this is the situation: "this is a message indicating that the drive's internal monitoring system (S.M.A.R.T.) has detected a fatal error in the drive. It's dying. After you get it backed up, you can get the DIAGNOSTIC program from the drive manufacturer's web site and run it. This will query the error database and give you a diagnosis. In most cases the recommendation will be "Call us and get a return authorization...". If the drive is under warranty, you'll want to do that. If not, then scrap it out and get a new one. This is a quote from the first thread from X-Pert's Exchange--a very reliable forum when it comes to trouble shooting hardware or software problems or possibly as in this case both.

Annoyances Thread on this error"Your hard drive may be failing, or its microcode may need to be upgraded. In any case, it's reporting to Windows that it has too many permanent write errors. You should run the Windows hard drive surface analysis. Open My Computer, and right-click on the drive in question. You'll find the surface analysis in the Tools. I'd replace the hard drive, and file a warranty claim."

What do we know from the unmountable boot volume error?

We definitely know that the system can't access the boot volume in order to start becaue there is a hardware problem in accessing the physical disc. The reasons: 1) a hard disk is damaged 2) For some of the trouble shooting reasons cbd often finds power is not reaching the hard disk properly or is reaching it intermittently--cable problems, pin problems, ect. 3) Improper disk cabling has been used or it's been made that way and the cabling doesn't support disk throughput.

You see the latter commonly for example, when someone uses older 40-pin IDE cables with newer 80-pin cables. If a disk or controller is capable of 33.3MBps throughput, 40 pin IDE cables are incompatible and you get the error. Making sure the disk's power plug is firmly connected at or near its regulated voltage is a hardware troubleshooting move here.

Re: uh oh (Home sp2)

I appreciate the hardware info I get from cbd who builds these and fixes them day in day out--the software links too. I bet you don't go back to dial up on that laptop. They should make that hard drive new and I'd like to know what they found hardware wise and cable wise in that system. Please let us know.