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Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

I have noticed a few SHB in my hives. I've also read on this forum that you don't want to attract SHB TO your hives, but given that there are already some there, should put traps in the hives? Or put them 600 or so feet away?

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

I took a class the other weekend specifically on hive pests. The instructor said that SHB can detect food aromatics from miles away, so I don't think there's really any way to hide hives from them. She recommended the style of trap that replaces the bottom board and puts a reservoir of oil below hardware cloth. Freeman trap? Anyway, they're on the pricey side, but I'm planning on picking a couple up over the winter and starting them in the spring. I haven't had much luck with the home-made fermented bait traps. She also recommended the hang-between traps that you fill with vinegar and oil, though lots of people report those are hard to remove and often result in spills.

You know, her top piece of advice, not just for SHB but for everything, was to use only the number of boxes that the bees need. She repeatedly said, "Reduce your real estate," so maybe the way we should be looking at this is that hive pests are an indication that there's one box too many on our hives. I'm a first year beek, so hopefully people who actually know things will chime in soon.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

This is my second year in beekeeping, so you can take this with a grain of salt. I have freeman beetle traps and like them. I have seen some beetles and larvae in the traps. Yes, they are pricey but worth while. I also have the little oil traps between 2 frames. I havent caught many beetles in them, and the spillage of oil, sometimes causes dead bees.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

Milky Spore is ineffective against shb. It only works on the youngest, most vulnerable stage of larvae/grub development, which occurs within the hive for shb... placing Milky Spore inside the hives does have an effect on bee brood as well, which leads to the development of brood diseases... it is not a threat to honey bees in their adult state, and as larvae, it can not come into contact with them as a feed because they are confined to the cells... but if applied in the hives, the bees will work to clean it out, and in turn, take it in which leaves spores in their guttural systems which passes them on to the brood during feeding...

Shb can detect 2 ppb (parts per Billion) of pollen from miles away... there is no hiding hives from them... baited traps cannot compare to the attractant of the hives... the purpose of the bait within the hives is to encourage the shb to enter the traps as a safe place to feed, away from the bees...

The best place to install traps is inside of the hives where the beetles will go no matter what..

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

Robert, I think jengalill is thinking along the lines of something that I've thought about trying...once I get my colonies going. That is to build some small "hives" as traps for shb. My thoughts are enclosed boxes with access doors for baiting, etc.,. Vented areas large enough for shb to enter but too small for honey bees. Bait them up with some honey smeared on the inner walls, maybe some lemongrass oil, and plenty of combat roach gel. Place these a distance from the honey bees, maybe into the edge of the woods. The beetles are going to come regardless, so what if they ran into a perimeter of mini-hives baited up for them? For my little bee yard maybe four placed a hundred yards distant from the yard...maybe favoring upwind from the prevailing winds to catch the beetles coming in on the breezes? Just trying to think outside the box.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

Killing them anywhere is good as far as I'm concerned, but as Robert says, you can't keep them out of your hives. In heavily infested areas you have to have in-the-hive traps or kiss your bees goodbye.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

The OPer is from Connecticutt (or however it's spelt). Unless there is a real need to, I wouldn't sweat a few adult SHB in a colony in CT. I wouldn't install traps in my hives or outside my hives. I would not drench the surrounding area w/ chemicals.

All the previous responders are in the South. Conditions in CT are different. At least Climatewise and Seasonally speaking. Y'all down in Dixie have much milder conditions than Up North, which allows the SHB to reproduce and do damage.

jengalil,
have you noticed any damage? How many beetles did you see? Are you certain they were SHBs? There are other beetles that one will find in beehives from time to time. What are CTs recommendations on how to react to and handle SHB? What's good in GA is not necassarily necassary in CT.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

Shb overwinter inside the cluster with the bees, so winter has little effect on them... the shorter warm season does keep them from reproducing as many times as they can in the south, but they do still have time to reproduce many cycles... the sbb traps may be a bit excessive due to the added wear and tear and expense... but some simple cd cases will give the bees somewhere to trap the adults instead of allowing them to hide in the cluster and be fed by the bees through winter.

Exterior traps are not as effective as in hive traps for a few reasons...

1. Shb follow the bees when they see them entering the hives, so a mock hive with no bees going into it will not get the attention that the hives do...

2. Shb are seeking queenright colonies that are bringing in fresh pollen and fanning to counter the heat of large populations... in other words, its the strong, healthy hives that attract them... these colonies are the ones that can provide the best nurseries for their young and thus they are the main objectives... weak or queenless colonies are just easily overrun and thus people mistakenly assume that these are the ones that the beetles were after...

shb are social creatures... they work as a team for the benefit of their species... once a beetles eggs begin to hatch, the slime produced by the larvae is an extremely potent attractant to other shb (and deterrent to bees) that alerts other shb to hurry in and lay their eggs in safety...

The jelly and pollen are what the shb are most after... the jelly is what the adults feed on the most and the bee bread (pollen) is what the larvae will mainly feed on... most shb larvae that are found in supers with only honey take nearly twice as long to reach the next stage of development... they are mainly in the supers because the female found the corners of the honey frames to be the safest place to lay, or the best nutrition for her young in the situation...(such as a honey house where no brood and pollen would be found).

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

I have the backloading freeman traps--love 'em for several different reasons. Today I inspected oneof my hives and saw a small cluster of beetles in the top corner--I smashed as many as I could. But below in the trap were A LOT of shb drowned in oil. I only use a this layer of oil, not a fill to the top of the trap. The reason I like these is because I get a reading of what's going on in the whole hive by what's being dropped. Brood cappings, pollen shb larvae--it kind of gives me another indicator for reading the hive. And since they're backloaded from the back of the hive, I never disturb the bees and have never had a bee drown. I just clean it out every week or so to keep things fresh and clean.
Lisa

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

I love how the Freeman trap works but the construction is as shoddy as can be. They tell me they have improved it but are non-responsive to my request for replacement. Sent pix in showing how the screen extends out to where the reducer sits, a gap at the tray that allows bees to enter and drown and the cross brace at the bottom hangs below the framework - won't sit flat, wobbles. Pitiful. Did i mention no response from customer service? Caveat emptor! Waiting for a competitor's model!

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

I had amazing success with the sticky board in my country rubes screened bottom board, when I painted it with olive oil, and yes, I reduced my real estate. BUT with the drought on, shb probably can't burrow into the ground to pupate, so I would say my success is partly, there weren't many shb to begin with - most I ever caught in one day was 7.

I'm a klutz, the little oil traps and I are not friends. If I went to anything else it would be the freeman.

Gypsi

Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, guess I will teach permaculture in drought. The bees are still alive.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

I bought 2 of the IPK Small Hive Beetle Traps from greenbeehives.com. I guess this is a style of the Freeman trap? I put them in use and I see SHB in the oil, dead and I have not seen one SHB up in the hive. I actually think that the bees are chasing them into the bottom on purpose? I have not seen any larvae in the oil so I do not think they are in long enough to reproduce. The drawback is that there is a lot of pollen that is wasted with the SHB.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

Originally Posted by jengalill

I have noticed a few SHB in my hives. I've also read on this forum that you don't want to attract SHB TO your hives, but given that there are already some there, should put traps in the hives? Or put them 600 or so feet away?

I treat my hives inside with SHB traps, and outside I "treat" my hives placing them in the middle of my poultry run.

I guess chickens, ducks and newly acquired Guinea hens "treat" most bee enemies including ants all right I guess....

This treatment is 100% organic and free.

My birds do not charge me for this treatment, and give me meat and eggs as a bonus.

I kept birds before my beekeeping adventure so I thought I may as well employ them to control bee enemies.

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

o.k
i live in south Mississippi and the shb are very bad down here, the solution i have found to my problem with them, keep in mind i'm a small timer,only 4 hives, is the IPK beetle trap, it replaces the bottom board with a tray, the tray has a tray in side that holds vegi oil. as the beetles come in they fall through the screen and drown in the oil. this has kept my hive's from being slimmed and helps keep the shb under control. i have tried all kinds of things but this is the one thing that has helped me, the only draw back is you need to check it every 2-3 weeks to replace the oil in the tray. if u have large quantities of hives it may not be cost effective. they are a little expensive but the web site shows how u can build it yourself if u like.
kindest regards
brad

God helps those who help themselves, the government helps those who don't want to work!

Re: Treating SHB inside or outside the hive?

On occasion I have found one or two live beetles in my hive running for cover before I squished them. At what point are they a problem to the hive when you live in an area that has sub freezing temperatures? Surely, the beetle traps do not get all the adult beetles and in the south there is no killing temperatures during the winter to curb their populations. So there has to be a minimum population where the bee and the beetle can coexist otherwise there would be no hives in the south.