Question......my bf is a freeflier and has always been required to exit last......until we came to florida.........I am still a student and he got on the load to jump and watch my exit......he was told while boarding freefliers go out first.......he just shook his head and followed orders.....he was really pissed off about it and won't jump there anymore......any feedback???? would be appreciated....

Just a thought but at my DZ (Elsinore) all experienced jumpers almost always exit before students in the normal progression - belly flyers then freeflyers - with very few exceptions. . .could this be what happened? Just a guess. . .

There are some people out there that perfer to go out first for lots of reasons, not all of them are in the best idea. Some people think the fastest canopy should be first, others thing the fastest faller, still others think the largest group no matter what they are doing.

Play with the freefall tools on Kallends website, it shows why belly is best to go first. I was not happy with freefliers going first at Zhills either.

different theories... a friend also got asked to exit after the groups as he was solo, but he was doing speedskydiving where I jump the fastest jump 1st... but I can still adapt to local beliefs and customs

no....not Z-hills......he is questioning exiting before students..............is it a safety issue???

skygirl1

yes. students open higher also instructors rightly want to minimize risks and complications and having the whole sky with noone around is one way to do that . not to mention trigger happy freeflyers falling through canopies open at 5k.

of course i am not an instructor and could be speaking from the wrong orifice.

The standard exit order is belly largest to smallest group, free-fly largest to smallest, AFF, tandem, birdmen. Vertical seperation does not count for anything. Premature deployments, high pulls, low pulls, etc can quickly erase any planned vertical seperation. Horizontal seperation is the only way to ensure safety. Having belly-flying students and tandems exiting after free-flyers works out because of the long horizontal seperation between the first AFF/tandem and the last freeflyer. AFF take a while to get set up in the door and tandems should be experrienced enough to know to leave a lot of room after the last free-flyer. It also makes sense having the AFF and tandems exit after the belly and free flyers because they pull higher and can therefore take a longer spot than other jumpers and still make it back to the DZ.

Kallend's free-fall simulator is an excellent resource for proving why this exit order is the best.

Z-Hills in the only place that I know that puts Freeflyers out first. I dont like it at all for the obvious reasons . I simply ask for pilot for a go-around to ensure clear air and just go with the flow. Go-Arounds work for me but cost the DZ more !

I do however understand the canopy speed issues! But I think exit orders do not properly address canopy speed conflicts. Two Word.....Landing Pattern. If you want to do a down-wind landing....get out LOW! Just my thoughts. <<smooches>> Tami

Your B/F was right to be pissed. Derek mentioned that Horizontal Seperation was of key importance and this is true. Imagine.

A single freeflyer will cut through the air like a knife as compared to a 8 way RW belly. The 8 way will be more suseptible to drift in freefall (i.e. the upper winds). This 8 way could drift right over the single freeflyer and be dumping all around him...or into him.

By letting the smaller groups, and then the groups less suseptable to freefall drift go next, you allow the aircraft flight to give that seperation properly. And drift in freefall gets less and less as you progress to the smaller and faster groups. (A 2 way RW will drift more than a 4 way freefly)

Students and Tandems pull alot higher than normal, and have experienced instructors (hopefully) looking out.

Raeford, unless this has just changed in the past couple of months, also puts Freefliers out first. I didn't agree with it, but hey, it never led to any problems that I saw. I have never been to a dropzone that puts out freefall students before experienced skydivers (I have been instructing since 1985), so I don't know where that came from.

And everyone else who understands the difference between airspeed and groundspeed and basic principles of freefall drift.

You want slowest fallers out first, with limited exceptions (boards and BirdMen come to mind), with long climbouts first (so the door can be opened early and the plane can advance to the "spot" while the large group is climbing out). The slower fallers will be pushed back more by the wind, increasing their separation from the faster fallers, who will open at a reduced horizontal distance from their exit point over the ground.

I came from another state........and students always exited first.......i am new to this sport so I have no idea really about this.......that is why I came to this board....all the info is awsome and i take it all in....I am just trying to learn......every dropzone is differant and all have thier own rules.....thanx for all the awsome feedback so far.....

GOOD OLD WISCONSIN!!! The cheese head state... seriously.....that is how it is.....everytime I jumped I was out first.........now this is a smaller dropzone where the main progression is static line......and we jump out of a c-182..........but students got out first...

>I came from another state........and students always exited first.......

That's pretty common when you're dealing with cessnas and static lines; that way the JM has more direct control over the student. Cessnas don't usually have separation issues, which is why separation isn't much of a concern when dealing with them.

GOOD OLD WISCONSIN!!! The cheese head state... seriously.....that is how it is.....everytime I jumped I was out first.........now this is a smaller dropzone where the main progression is static line......and we jump out of a c-182..........but students got out first...

skygirl1

See, that is an entirely different scenario altogether. Yes, in a Cessna, you are going to put students out first assuming SL or IAD progression.

Raeford, unless this has just changed in the past couple of months, also puts Freefliers out first. I didn't agree with it, but hey, it never led to any problems that I saw.

Raeford also takes two passes per load right?

That makes a big difference. It lets you get the seperation...the only time I have an issue with putting FF first is if the DZ or pilot gets pissed when I take a go around.....If they let me, then I don't really have an issue.