I wouldn't worry about that report much, because of some obscure figure from the 30s, supposedly a non-elected Palestinian leader having visited Nazi Germany, all Gazans must be Nazis too, so they deserved it.

I wouldn't worry about that report much, because of some obscure figure from the 30s, supposedly a non-elected Palestinian leader having visited Nazi Germany, all Gazans must be Nazis too, so they deserved it.

^ Obscure??? He was Arafat's Uncle. In August 2002, Arafat gave an interview in which he referred to "our hero al-Husseini" as a symbol of Palestinian Arab resistance. Stop trying to diminish him as some doddering old fool. HE WAS A NAZI! Does that mean all Gazans are Nazis?!?! No, but it does mean that the Palestinian Leadership of PLO, Fatah still exercises those extreme believes of al-Husseini....gladly. Has it worked for the good of the Palestinian people? I would say no. Have the Israelis acted in unreasonable ways? Yes. But if you want to get into war crimes.....let us be fair.....you would have to drag Palestinians in on that same trial. Do these not constitute war crimes??

Using a church as fighting position Using a hospital as a fighting position Using Taxis and Ambulances for weapons transport Fighting without a uniform or emblem

If neither side will admit that they have been a bunch of shitheads and if neither side will allow the other to live a normal life....you will have this until one side becomes more unreasonable than the other. Because from what I see, the only way to fight an enemy without reason is to become more unreasonable...and here we are. So, if the U.N. can admit that the Palestinians have commited war crimes also....what do you want to do about it? What is the answer Meds? Because I am sick and tired hearing about how terrible each side is and not hearing any new ideas.

^ Obscure??? He was Arafat's Uncle. In August 2002, Arafat gave an interview in which he referred to "our hero al-Husseini" as a symbol of Palestinian Arab resistance. Stop trying to diminish him as some doddering old fool. HE WAS A NAZI! Does that mean all Gazans are Nazis?!?! No, but it does mean that the Palestinian Leadership of PLO, Fatah still exercises those extreme believes of al-Husseini....gladly. Has it worked for the good of the Palestinian people? I would say no. Have the Israelis acted in unreasonable ways? Yes. But if you want to get into war crimes.....let us be fair.....you would have to drag Palestinians in on that same trial. Do these not constitute war crimes??

Using a church as fighting position Using a hospital as a fighting position Using Taxis and Ambulances for weapons transport Fighting without a uniform or emblem

If neither side will admit that they have been a bunch of shitheads and if neither side will allow the other to live a normal life....you will have this until one side becomes more unreasonable than the other. Because from what I see, the only way to fight an enemy without reason is to become more unreasonable...and here we are. So, if the U.N. can admit that the Palestinians have commited war crimes also....what do you want to do about it? What is the answer Meds? Because I am sick and tired hearing about how terrible each side is and not hearing any new ideas.

Uncle or not, Al-Hussieni was the Mufti, he is a religious appointee, and not an elected official, and does not speak for the Palestinians, like the majority of the Arab leaders at the time and to this day. He was NOT a Nazi, unless you are claiming that everyone that met Hitler at one point during their lives made them Nazis. He is a typical nationalist who had little understanding about the nature behind the the Nazi rise to power. He assumed that that animosity between Hitler and the Jews in the early 30s would work to thwart the British efforts of settling tens of thousands of Jews in Palestine constantly and illegally. There is no evidence whatsoever that he knew before hand, colluded or encouraged the holocaust. Araft on the other hand was not an Islamist, he was a nationalist with some communist / socialist background. If anything it was Arafat and the PLO that essentially stripped Al-Husseini of his "leader" status and made him largely obsolete.

Did this guy work with Hitler to block Jewish immigration to Palestine? Absolutely. Did he organize raids and counter raids against Zionist organization? Yes. Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that. There is a lot of propaganda that was set around this person just to make him sound like the ultimate justification for the plight of the Palestinians. These are a couple of extracts from Wikipedia with well known author sources:

'The claims of Palestinian complicity in the murder of the European Jews were to some extent a defensive strategy, a preemptive response to the Palestinian complaint that if Israel was recompensed for the Holocaust, it was unjust that Palestinian Muslims should pick up the bill for the crimes of European Christians. The assertion that Palestinians were complicit in the Holocaust was mostly based on the case of the Mufti of Jerusalem, a pre-World War II Palestinian nationalist leader who, to escape imprisonment by the British, sought refuge during the war in Germany. The Mufti was in many ways a disreputable character, but post-war claims that he played any significant part in the Holocaust have never been sustained. This did not prevent the editors of the four-volume Encyclopedia of the Holocaust from giving him a starring role. The article on the Mufti is more than twice as long as the articles on Goebbels and Goering, longer than the articles on Himmler and Heydrich combined, longer than the article on Eichmann--of all the biographical articles, it is exceeded in length, but only slightly, by the entry for Hitler.'

Source: Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American Life (1999) Mariner Books, New York 2000 pp.157-8

"(...) the demonization of the Mufti serves to magnify the Arafatian threat" and that the "[portrayal of the Mufti as] one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry (...) has no (...) historical substantiation."

P.S. "Palestinefacts" is a Zionist revisionist website with bullshit sources. Try clicking any of their supposed links and it only leads you to other pages of their websites. Rarely when it does lead you to outside sources, this is what you get:

http://www.jafi.org.il http://www.eretzyisroel.org/

They don't name any of their "authoritative editors" for obvious reasons.

If you want to use a source, I suggest you look for well known historians, even if they were Israeli, at least we would know who the hell made the claims.

"Using a church as fighting position Using a hospital as a fighting position Using Taxis and Ambulances for weapons transport Fighting without a uniform or emblem"

There are no reports from independent sources (Not the IDF) that Hamas used these tactics during the war. If anything all independent reports clearly note that Israel actively sought to target Palestinian civilians. Just read this report for example. In fact, during the Lebanon War in 2006, all of the reports made by the IDF that Hezbollah used those strategies, thuse justifying their killing of civilians were found to be false by independent sources. Moreover Hizbollah uses a full military uniform when they fight Israeli divisions.

The problem with your way is that you are comparing two acts qualitatively, not quantitatively. Did Palestinian factions ever commit war crimes before? Certainly, Suicide Bombings, and non-specific rocket attacks at Israeli populations come under that. Does any of that justify extermination of thousands of Palestinians in 3 weeks? Fuck no.

The reality is that the Suicide Bombings and the eventual rocket attacks are a natural outcome to the disastrous policies of the Israeli regime. If you want to keep blaming both sides equally and nonsensically, you will get no where.

Uncle or not, Al-Hussieni was the Mufti, he is a religious appointee, and not an elected official, and does not speak for the Palestinians, like the majority of the Arab leaders at the time and to this day. He was NOT a Nazi, unless you are claiming that everyone that met Hitler at one point during their lives made them Nazis. He is a typical nationalist who had little understanding about the nature behind the the Nazi rise to power. He assumed that that animosity between Hitler and the Jews in the early 30s would work to thwart the British efforts of settling tens of thousands of Jews in Palestine constantly and illegally. There is no evidence whatsoever that he knew before hand, colluded or encouraged the holocaust. Araft on the other hand was not an Islamist, he was a nationalist with some communist / socialist background. If anything it was Arafat and the PLO that essentially stripped Al-Husseini of his "leader" status and made him largely obsolete.

Did this guy work with Hitler to block Jewish immigration to Palestine? Absolutely. Did he organize raids and counter raids against Zionist organization? Yes. Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that. There is a lot of propaganda that was set around this person just to make him sound like the ultimate justification for the plight of the Palestinians. These are a couple of extracts from Wikipedia with well known author sources:

'The claims of Palestinian complicity in the murder of the European Jews were to some extent a defensive strategy, a preemptive response to the Palestinian complaint that if Israel was recompensed for the Holocaust, it was unjust that Palestinian Muslims should pick up the bill for the crimes of European Christians. The assertion that Palestinians were complicit in the Holocaust was mostly based on the case of the Mufti of Jerusalem, a pre-World War II Palestinian nationalist leader who, to escape imprisonment by the British, sought refuge during the war in Germany. The Mufti was in many ways a disreputable character, but post-war claims that he played any significant part in the Holocaust have never been sustained. This did not prevent the editors of the four-volume Encyclopedia of the Holocaust from giving him a starring role. The article on the Mufti is more than twice as long as the articles on Goebbels and Goering, longer than the articles on Himmler and Heydrich combined, longer than the article on Eichmann--of all the biographical articles, it is exceeded in length, but only slightly, by the entry for Hitler.'

Source: Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American Life (1999) Mariner Books, New York 2000 pp.157-8

"(...) the demonization of the Mufti serves to magnify the Arafatian threat" and that the "[portrayal of the Mufti as] one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry (...) has no (...) historical substantiation."

P.S. "Palestinefacts" is a Zionist revisionist website with bullshit sources. Try clicking any of their supposed links and it only leads you to other pages of their websites. Rarely when it does lead you to outside sources, this is what you get:

They don't name any of their "authoritative editors" for obvious reasons.

If you want to use a source, I suggest you look for well known historians, even if they were Israeli, at least we would know who the hell made the claims.

"Using a church as fighting position Using a hospital as a fighting position Using Taxis and Ambulances for weapons transport Fighting without a uniform or emblem"

There are no reports from independent sources (Not the IDF) that Hamas used these tactics during the war. If anything all independent reports clearly note that Israel actively sought to target Palestinian civilians. Just read this report for example. In fact, during the Lebanon War in 2006, all of the reports made by the IDF that Hezbollah used those strategies, thuse justifying their killing of civilians were found to be false by independent sources. Moreover Hizbollah uses a full military uniform when they fight Israeli divisions.

The problem with your way is that you are comparing two acts qualitatively, not quantitatively. Did Palestinian factions ever commit war crimes before? Certainly, Suicide Bombings, and non-specific rocket attacks at Israeli populations come under that. Does any of that justify extermination of thousands of Palestinians in 3 weeks? Fuck no.

The reality is that the Suicide Bombings and the eventual rocket attacks are a natural outcome to the disastrous policies of the Israeli regime. If you want to keep blaming both sides equally and nonsensically, you will get no where.

Bullshit!!!, both the israelis and the palestinians target and kill civilians. I am suppose to feel sorry because one side has a higher body count? Stop this shit now, neither the palestinians or the israelis are going anywhere. Either share the land or kill each other their choice. Both sides are committed so called war crimes.

Bullshit!!!, both the israelis and the palestinians target and kill civilians. I am suppose to feel sorry because one side has a higher body count? Stop this shit now, neither the palestinians or the israelis are going anywhere. Either share the land or kill each other their choice. Both sides are committed so called war crimes.

[quote user="cadpig"]Bullshit!!!, both the israelis and the palestinians target and kill civilians. I am suppose to feel sorry because one side has a higher body count? Stop this shit now, neither the palestinians or the israelis are going anywhere. Either share the land or kill each other their choice. Both sides are committed so called war crimes.

[/quote]

Bullshit. According to you as long as one Palestinian kills one Israeli, Israel can kill 1400 in return, and they would be equally culprit. That's the cop out stance and the excuse to just equalize that which can never be equalized. At least the Palestinians don't have smart bombs and cruise missiles, what's the Israeli excuse for TARGETING thousands of Palestinian civilians?

So basically, it was ok for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews if a Jew killed a German?

Nothing but extermination.

cadpig wrote:

Bullshit!!!, both the israelis and the palestinians target and kill civilians. I am suppose to feel sorry because one side has a higher body count? Stop this shit now, neither the palestinians or the israelis are going anywhere. Either share the land or kill each other their choice. Both sides are committed so called war crimes.

Bullshit. According to you as long as one Palestinian kills one Israeli, Israel can kill 1400 in return, and they would be equally culprit. That's the cop out stance and the excuse to just equalize that which can never be equalized. At least the Palestinians don't have smart bombs and cruise missiles, what's the Israeli excuse for TARGETING thousands of Palestinian civilians?

So basically, it was ok for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews if a Jew killed a German?

Damn right buddy. How can those god damn Palestinians in the West Bank not share their water with their poor, poor, European Israeli settler neighbours? Damn ingrates with their huge swimming pools, lush lawns and well watered, blooming, fruitful trees, while the poor, poor, European Israelis have to que for water...makes me mad as hell! Maybe if they stopped stealing land and shared their resources the poor, poor, European Israeli settlers would get along with them just fine...but no, they just keep building and stealing, stealing and building.

Then, as if that weren't enough, they have to go and steal the olive trees from their poor, poor, European Israeli neighbours, leaving them with no form of income to feed themselves....I'm absolutely furious with those damn, greedy, Arabs!

Dont even get me started on those selfish Arabs in Gaza. Do you know that if the wind is blowing in the right direction the aroma of the marvelous feasts them damn Gazans have everyday wafts over into the poor, poor, starving European Israeli neighbourhood of Sderot?..Fucking Harpies!

Once again, cadpig, you've hit the finger right on the nail a jackhammer...Keep up the good work!

@cadpig "Either share the land or kill each other their choice"

Damn right buddy. How can those god damn Palestinians in the West Bank not share their water with their poor, poor, European Israeli settler neighbours? Damn ingrates with their huge swimming pools, lush lawns and well watered, blooming, fruitful trees, while the poor, poor, European Israelis have to que for water...makes me mad as hell! Maybe if they stopped stealing land and shared their resources the poor, poor, European Israeli settlers would get along with them just fine...but no, they just keep building and stealing, stealing and building.

Then, as if that weren't enough, they have to go and steal the olive trees from their poor, poor, European Israeli neighbours, leaving them with no form of income to feed themselves....I'm absolutely furious with those damn, greedy, Arabs!

Dont even get me started on those selfish Arabs in Gaza. Do you know that if the wind is blowing in the right direction the aroma of the marvelous feasts them damn Gazans have everyday wafts over into the poor, poor, starving European Israeli neighbourhood of Sderot?..Fucking Harpies!

Once again, cadpig, you've hit the finger right on the nail a jackhammer...Keep up the good work!

I don't get it!!! You guys just don't get it. The jews aren't just going to pack up and move. It's been 60 years. Either share the land or fight an all out war over it. I never said the arabs are selfish or bad. I don't have 100% support for israel either. They are killing each other over land!!! It has to stop. There are no heros or villians in this. Just two groups of people locked in a circle of violence, hatred and murder. Do you really want to see an all out war?!

I don't get it!!! You guys just don't get it. The jews aren't just going to pack up and move. It's been 60 years. Either share the land or fight an all out war over it. I never said the arabs are selfish or bad. I don't have 100% support for israel either. They are killing each other over land!!! It has to stop. There are no heros or villians in this. Just two groups of people locked in a circle of violence, hatred and murder. Do you really want to see an all out war?!

[quote user="cadpig"]I don't get it!!! You guys just don't get it. The jews aren't just going to pack up and move. It's been 60 years. Either share the land or fight an all out war over it. I never said the arabs are selfish or bad. I don't have 100% support for israel either. They are killing each other over land!!! It has to stop. There are no heros or villians in this. Just two groups of people locked in a circle of violence, hatred and murder. Do you really want to see an all out war?!

[/quote]

You don't get it,or rather trying hard not to get it. Palestinians were in an All OUT war for 60 years. Right now the Palestinians are the ones ever pushed to the brink and being ethnically cleansed, not the Israelis. The Jewish settlers are rapidly expanding in the West Bank and in Eastern Jerusalem, while hundreds of Palestinian homes are being demolished and people are literally forced to pack their bags and leave. Eastern Jerusalem is treated like a dumpster. The Israeli Settlers aren't happy with what they already have, and they are trying to uproot what little land, water sources and dignity left to the Palestinians. That's the reality on the ground. Attempting to show it in a different light as though the Israelis are fighting for their lives, trying hard just to keep themselves on the ground is utter and complete bullshit. I've been there, and I saw it.

cadpig wrote:

I don't get it!!! You guys just don't get it. The jews aren't just going to pack up and move. It's been 60 years. Either share the land or fight an all out war over it. I never said the arabs are selfish or bad. I don't have 100% support for israel either. They are killing each other over land!!! It has to stop. There are no heros or villians in this. Just two groups of people locked in a circle of violence, hatred and murder. Do you really want to see an all out war?!

You don't get it,or rather trying hard not to get it. Palestinians were in an All OUT war for 60 years. Right now the Palestinians are the ones ever pushed to the brink and being ethnically cleansed, not the Israelis. The Jewish settlers are rapidly expanding in the West Bank and in Eastern Jerusalem, while hundreds of Palestinian homes are being demolished and people are literally forced to pack their bags and leave. Eastern Jerusalem is treated like a dumpster. The Israeli Settlers aren't happy with what they already have, and they are trying to uproot what little land, water sources and dignity left to the Palestinians. That's the reality on the ground. Attempting to show it in a different light as though the Israelis are fighting for their lives, trying hard just to keep themselves on the ground is utter and complete bullshit. I've been there, and I saw it.

That's it...Why don't you just come clean and admit it. You want an all out regional war between israel and every other country in the middle east, don't you? You want the jews driven from israel , no matter what the cost. Driven into the sea. You want to stand on piles and piles of dead israelis jews....

That's it...Why don't you just come clean and admit it. You want an all out regional war between israel and every other country in the middle east, don't you? You want the jews driven from israel , no matter what the cost. Driven into the sea. You want to stand on piles and piles of dead israelis jews....

[quote user="cadpig"]I don't get it!!! You guys just don't get it. The jews aren't just going to pack up and move. It's been 60 years. Either share the land or fight an all out war over it. I never said the arabs are selfish or bad. I don't have 100% support for israel either. They are killing each other over land!!! It has to stop. There are no heros or villians in this. Just two groups of people locked in a circle of violence, hatred and murder. Do you really want to see an all out war?!

[/quote]

Share! Share! Share! How the fuck can you share what has been stolen from you?

On another level. You're basically chastising a man who's had his wealth stolen for not sharing his remaining 1cent with the person who stole from him and has millions of his own ( and other ppls ) Your ignorance and pro Israel stance are astonishing.

cadpig wrote:

I don't get it!!! You guys just don't get it. The jews aren't just going to pack up and move. It's been 60 years. Either share the land or fight an all out war over it. I never said the arabs are selfish or bad. I don't have 100% support for israel either. They are killing each other over land!!! It has to stop. There are no heros or villians in this. Just two groups of people locked in a circle of violence, hatred and murder. Do you really want to see an all out war?!

Share! Share! Share! How the fuck can you share what has been stolen from you?

On another level. You're basically chastising a man who's had his wealth stolen for not sharing his remaining 1cent with the person who stole from him and has millions of his own ( and other ppls ) Your ignorance and pro Israel stance are astonishing.

[quote user="cadpig"]That's it...Why don't you just come clean and admit it. You want an all out regional war between israel and every other country in the middle east, don't you? You want the jews driven from israel , no matter what the cost. Driven into the sea. You want to stand on piles and piles of dead israelis jews....

[/quote]

Despite the fact that English is my second language, it's times like these that makes me wonder whether you have it as a third language. I suggest you get an English to .... whatever-language-you-actually-stand-a-chance-at-understanding translator and read what I said again.

cadpig wrote:

That's it...Why don't you just come clean and admit it. You want an all out regional war between israel and every other country in the middle east, don't you? You want the jews driven from israel , no matter what the cost. Driven into the sea. You want to stand on piles and piles of dead israelis jews....

Despite the fact that English is my second language, it's times like these that makes me wonder whether you have it as a third language. I suggest you get an English to .... whatever-language-you-actually-stand-a-chance-at-understanding translator and read what I said again.

^No, the Palestinians only want what is rightfully theirs. In the meantime your country finances the theft and death that Israel, their peace loving poor, poor, terrified neighbour gives them on an everyday basis.

Stop commenting, cad, because you're a fucking ignorant idiot!

^No, the Palestinians only want what is rightfully theirs. In the meantime your country finances the theft and death that Israel, their peace loving poor, poor, terrified neighbour gives them on an everyday basis.

Despite the fact that English is my second language, it's times like these that makes me wonder whether you have it as a third language. I suggest you get an English to .... whatever-language-you-actually-stand-a-chance-at-understanding translator and read what I said again.

[/quote]

If english isn't your first language, you need to giiiiiiit off the internet. The internet is written in english. (invented by american Al Gore).

medfreak wrote:

cadpig wrote:

Despite the fact that English is my second language, it's times like these that makes me wonder whether you have it as a third language. I suggest you get an English to .... whatever-language-you-actually-stand-a-chance-at-understanding translator and read what I said again.

If english isn't your first language, you need to giiiiiiit off the internet. The internet is written in english. (invented by american Al Gore).

Now the personal attack start....What's next my mother is a whore. You always dance around that question, scout... You think the Jews are going to magically disappear?! Pack up and leave for america or europe?! Get some U.N mandate forcing the Jews to leave?! You know that's not going to happen. It's going to take an all out regional war between israel and her neighbours for that to happen. A fucking bloodbath with one clear winner. Winner takes all....

Now the personal attack start....What's next my mother is a whore. You always dance around that question, scout... You think the Jews are going to magically disappear?! Pack up and leave for america or europe?! Get some U.N mandate forcing the Jews to leave?! You know that's not going to happen. It's going to take an all out regional war between israel and her neighbours for that to happen. A fucking bloodbath with one clear winner. Winner takes all....

[quote user="cadpig"]Now the personal attack start....What's next my mother is a whore. You always dance around that question, scout... You think the Jews are going to magically disappear?! Pack up and leave for america or europe?! Get some U.N mandate forcing the Jews to leave?! You know that's not going to happen. It's going to take an all out regional war between israel and her neighbours for that to happen. A fucking bloodbath with one clear winner. Winner takes all....

[/quote]

The Jews should not disappear, the Israeli apartheid MUST disappear. Just because the apartheid in South Africa disappeared, it does not mean that the the white men packed their bags and left or were exterminated. Just because the Soviet Union disappeared, it does not mean that the Russians were wiped of the face of the earth. It's the regimes that should disappear, not the people.

cadpig wrote:

Now the personal attack start....What's next my mother is a whore. You always dance around that question, scout... You think the Jews are going to magically disappear?! Pack up and leave for america or europe?! Get some U.N mandate forcing the Jews to leave?! You know that's not going to happen. It's going to take an all out regional war between israel and her neighbours for that to happen. A fucking bloodbath with one clear winner. Winner takes all....

The Jews should not disappear, the Israeli apartheid MUST disappear. Just because the apartheid in South Africa disappeared, it does not mean that the the white men packed their bags and left or were exterminated. Just because the Soviet Union disappeared, it does not mean that the Russians were wiped of the face of the earth. It's the regimes that should disappear, not the people.

You're absolutely right, i shouldn't have called you a fucking ignorant idiot, it's not your fault that you were born in the U.S of A...But still, it doesn't change the fact that you're a fucking ignorant idiot.

"You think the Jews are going to magically disappear?! Pack up and leave for america or europe?!"

What? Who suggested that? Lemme see, you call for both parties to share, but now you're saying no way are Israel going to share...But still you blame the Palestinians....You're the one calling for an all out extermination buddy...But you're neutral...right?

@cadpig,

You're absolutely right, i shouldn't have called you a fucking ignorant idiot, it's not your fault that you were born in the U.S of A...But still, it doesn't change the fact that you're a fucking ignorant idiot.

"You think the Jews are going to magically disappear?! Pack up and leave for america or europe?!"

What? Who suggested that? Lemme see, you call for both parties to share, but now you're saying no way are Israel going to share...But still you blame the Palestinians....You're the one calling for an all out extermination buddy...But you're neutral...right?

[quote user="mmateri"]Fuck, haven't the jews suffered enough in the last 60 years?

[/quote]

can we please stop using the Holocaust as the excuse for everything Israel does? Oh, and stop calling every critic of Israeli policy an anti-Semitic? I've never understood that term. Arabs are Semites too.

mmateri wrote:

Fuck, haven't the jews suffered enough in the last 60 years?

can we please stop using the Holocaust as the excuse for everything Israel does? Oh, and stop calling every critic of Israeli policy an anti-Semitic? I've never understood that term. Arabs are Semites too.

can we please stop using the Holocaust as the excuse for everything Israel does? Oh, and stop calling every critic of Israeli policy an anti-Semitic? I've never understood that term. Arabs are Semites too.

[/quote]

it was a joke, cuz the last thing I really give a fuck about is the middle east, but your new and would have had to see my history of posts to know that.

Cytokine wrote:

mmateri wrote:

can we please stop using the Holocaust as the excuse for everything Israel does? Oh, and stop calling every critic of Israeli policy an anti-Semitic? I've never understood that term. Arabs are Semites too.

it was a joke, cuz the last thing I really give a fuck about is the middle east, but your new and would have had to see my history of posts to know that.

can we please stop using the Holocaust as the excuse for everything Israel does? Oh, and stop calling every critic of Israeli policy an anti-Semitic? I've never understood that term. Arabs are Semites too.

can we please stop using the Holocaust as the excuse for everything Israel does? Oh, and stop calling every critic of Israeli policy an anti-Semitic? I've never understood that term. Arabs are Semites too.

Not a fucking Nazi huh? Could have fooled me....Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining. Palestinians and Jews used to live side by side until that fucking Nazi cunt came in. The one you are trying to diminish. The man who started the strife BEFORE the Jewish state was ever in being. You seem to want to play a tit-for-tat game. Fine. Al-Husseini was the TIT....and his backwards hateful ideas are still the centerpiece for Palestinian Authority....AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT!!! You guys sit there and try to label the Israelis as "Nazis".....I have CLEARLY shown that the godfather of the Palestinian movement WAS A NAZI!!! There is a saying that schoolchildren use that I think is quite fitting......"He who smelt it, dealt it." Just because he wasn't "elected" means NOTHING. He was and is still listened to as an authority....or as his Nephew Arafat publicly said, "our HERO al-Husseini".

No wonder there can never be any comprimise.....from what I have seen the Israelis have tried to compromise only to have it flung back in there face. But of course......it was all a Zionist plot....just like everything in the world. UNREASONABLE.

"According to you as long as one Palestinian kills one Israeli, Israel can kill 1400 in return, and they would be equally culprit."

So, you would call it "justified" if the Palestians kill one Israeli and then the Israelis kill one Palestinan, then you wouldn't be bitching??? I know why more Palestinians are killed than Israelis....because Israelis don't surround targets with Israeli human shields. The Palestinian "military" leadership is unreasonable......

"(Jerusalem, November 22, 2006) – Palestinian armed groups must not endanger Palestinian civilians by encouraging them to gather in and around suspected militants’ homes targeted by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Human Rights Watch said today.

Calling civilians to a location that the opposing side has identified for attack is at worst human shielding, at best failing to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians from the effects of attack. Both are violations of international humanitarian law."

So.....what happens??? The IDF becomes MORE unreasonable.......

"Human Rights Watch has also reported extensively on the coerced use of Palestinian civilians during military operations, and documented the use of Palestinian civilians as “human shields” and for military purposes during the Israeli military operations in Jenin in 2002. The Israeli High Court confirmed the illegality of using human shields in 2002.

As recently as July 2006, Israeli and Palestinian human rights groups have documented the IDF’s forcible use of Palestinians as human shields in a well publicized incident during military operations in Beit Hanoun. According to the groups, the IDF blindfolded six civilians, including two minors, and forced them to stand in front of soldiers who took over civilian homes during a raid in northern Gaza."

And the wheel of death continues to turn......You are all fucking assholes.

SO.......I will ask the question again....What do you want done?? What is everyone supposed to do? What would bring reason and reality to this situation?? Lay it out for me.......Because to me the only real answer would be threat of mutual destruction. Even if the Russians, U.S., Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al. quit giving money to the fight.....it wouldn't stop anything. You HATE each other that much......

Not a fucking Nazi huh? Could have fooled me....Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining. Palestinians and Jews used to live side by side until that fucking Nazi cunt came in. The one you are trying to diminish. The man who started the strife BEFORE the Jewish state was ever in being. You seem to want to play a tit-for-tat game. Fine. Al-Husseini was the TIT....and his backwards hateful ideas are still the centerpiece for Palestinian Authority....AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT!!! You guys sit there and try to label the Israelis as "Nazis".....I have CLEARLY shown that the godfather of the Palestinian movement WAS A NAZI!!! There is a saying that schoolchildren use that I think is quite fitting......"He who smelt it, dealt it." Just because he wasn't "elected" means NOTHING. He was and is still listened to as an authority....or as his Nephew Arafat publicly said, "our HERO al-Husseini".

No wonder there can never be any comprimise.....from what I have seen the Israelis have tried to compromise only to have it flung back in there face. But of course......it was all a Zionist plot....just like everything in the world. UNREASONABLE.

"According to you as long as one Palestinian kills one Israeli, Israel can kill 1400 in return, and they would be equally culprit."

So, you would call it "justified" if the Palestians kill one Israeli and then the Israelis kill one Palestinan, then you wouldn't be bitching??? I know why more Palestinians are killed than Israelis....because Israelis don't surround targets with Israeli human shields. The Palestinian "military" leadership is unreasonable......

"(Jerusalem, November 22, 2006) – Palestinian armed groups must not endanger Palestinian civilians by encouraging them to gather in and around suspected militants’ homes targeted by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Human Rights Watch said today.

Calling civilians to a location that the opposing side has identified for attack is at worst human shielding, at best failing to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians from the effects of attack. Both are violations of international humanitarian law."

So.....what happens??? The IDF becomes MORE unreasonable.......

"Human Rights Watch has also reported extensively on the coerced use of Palestinian civilians during military operations, and documented the use of Palestinian civilians as “human shields” and for military purposes during the Israeli military operations in Jenin in 2002. The Israeli High Court confirmed the illegality of using human shields in 2002.

As recently as July 2006, Israeli and Palestinian human rights groups have documented the IDF’s forcible use of Palestinians as human shields in a well publicized incident during military operations in Beit Hanoun. According to the groups, the IDF blindfolded six civilians, including two minors, and forced them to stand in front of soldiers who took over civilian homes during a raid in northern Gaza."

And the wheel of death continues to turn......You are all fucking assholes.

SO.......I will ask the question again....What do you want done?? What is everyone supposed to do? What would bring reason and reality to this situation?? Lay it out for me.......Because to me the only real answer would be threat of mutual destruction. Even if the Russians, U.S., Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al. quit giving money to the fight.....it wouldn't stop anything. You HATE each other that much......

not sure if you just researched all that shit or knew of it before hand but heres something you may like or at least is a related book on the subject... Btw you guys have got me interested on this subject, good job :)

Oh and while looking this shit up i found this... "Bosnian Nazi Muslim Flag under Amin Al Husseini - 1943 " -www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/<-This link here has information backing up Al husseini as being very deep in cahoots with the nazis, not just a friend of them....(edited this line in)

and to think my only original fascination with this subject was that the dudes head looked at odds with the pictures he was in... lol

not sure if you just researched all that shit or knew of it before hand but heres something you may like or at least is a related book on the subject... Btw you guys have got me interested on this subject, good job

Oh and while looking this shit up i found this... "Bosnian Nazi Muslim Flag under Amin Al Husseini - 1943 " -www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/<-This link here has information backing up Al husseini as being very deep in cahoots with the nazis, not just a friend of them....(edited this line in)

and to think my only original fascination with this subject was that the dudes head looked at odds with the pictures he was in... lol

Did this guy work with Hitler to block Jewish immigration to Palestine? Absolutely. Did he organize raids and counter raids against Zionist organization? Yes. Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that.

[/quote]

He met with the Nazis? Yes. He lived in Berlin running away from legal prosecution? Yes. Does that make him a Nazi? I don't know does this picture make Rumsfeld a bathist Iraqi?

Oh lookie, Grandpa Bush helped Hitler come to power, therefore, since Bush is a blood relative to his grand daddy, he must be a Nazi too!

Basically that is what you are doing Shanus. Tit for tat it is.

[quote user="ShanusMaximus"]@Meds You guys sit there and try to label the Israelis as "Nazis".....I have CLEARLY shown that the godfather of the Palestinian movement WAS A NAZI!!! There is a saying that schoolchildren use that I think is quite fitting......"He who smelt it, dealt it."

Just because he wasn't "elected" means NOTHING. He was and is still listened to as an authority....or as his Nephew Arafat publicly said, "our HERO al-Husseini".

No wonder there can never be any comprimise.....from what I have seen the Israelis have tried to compromise only to have it flung back in there face. But of course......it was all a Zionist plot....just like everything in the world. UNREASONABLE.

"According to you as long as one Palestinian kills one Israeli, Israel can kill 1400 in return, and they would be equally culprit."

So, you would call it "justified" if the Palestians kill one Israeli and then the Israelis kill one Palestinan, then you wouldn't be bitching??? I know why more Palestinians are killed than Israelis....because Israelis don't surround targets with Israeli human shields. The Palestinian "military" leadership is unreasonable......

[/quote]

Wow. I heard so many fallacies before, but to blame the start of the entire conflict on Al-Husseyni is entirely new to me. Hell even Ben Gorion wouldn't have said that. And you call me a revisionist? Where the fuck do you bring this shit from? Avigdor Lieberman's ass? The conflict did not start with Palestinian Jews living for thousands of years in Palestine. The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in. Israel tried to compromise? When the fuck did it did that? When it raped the west bank with hundreds of settlements? Israeli compromise is a myth. The longer the so called "negotiations" went, the more rights the Palestinians lost. It's all in plain sight.

Did you even bother to read this bloody report in this article Shanus? Or are you here to just bitch nonsensically? This was an independent report by Judge that was the chief investigator in Rowandan and Yugoslavian warcrimes before.

"Goldstone's report, which came at the end of a six-month inquiry and will be presented to the UN Human Rights Council later this month, said Israel deliberately attacked civilians, failed to take precautions to minimise loss of civilian life and cited strong evidence that Israeli forces committed "grave breaches" of the Geneva Conventions."

Israel did not just happen to kill civilians because they were next to militants, it DELIBERATELY killed them. You don't kill nearly a thousand Civilians, mostly women and children because your "smart bombs" had to attack the militants next to them. That's the plain bloody truth.

So the report basically is consistent with the findings of the other human rights organizations, that Israel targeted civilians, Israel targeted civilians who were carrying white flags, Israel systematically targeted the Palestinian infrastructure. The findings were consistent with those of the other human rights organizations: Israel is guilty of a very significant number of war crimes. And also, the findings which were—other reports, the same conclusions,that the Palestinians were not using hospitals to hide Hamas officials. There’s no evidence that the ambulances Israel targeted were carrying Hamas militants or ammunition. And most significantly, in terms of the coverage during the Gaza massacre, the report found, as did Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, there’s no evidence whatsoever—and I would want to underline that—there’s no evidence whatsoever that Hamas was guilty of human shielding.But on the other hand, there is significant evidence, actually copious evidence, that Israel was guilty of human shielding.

""Human Rights Watch has also reported extensively on the coerced use of Palestinian civilians during military operations, and documented the use of Palestinian civilians as “human shields” and for military purposes during the Israeli military operations in Jenin in 2002. The Israeli High Court confirmed the illegality of using human shields in 2002.

As recently as July 2006, Israeli and Palestinian human rights groups have documented the IDF’s forcible use of Palestinians as human shields in a well publicized incident during military operations in Beit Hanoun. According to the groups, the IDF blindfolded six civilians, including two minors, and forced them to stand in front of soldiers who took over civilian homes during a raid in northern Gaza.""

Are you serious? Do you call this "Unreasonable"? If this is not a war crime I don't know what is.

"SO.......I will ask the question again....What do you want done?? What is everyone supposed to do? What would bring reason and reality to this situation?? Lay it out for me.......Because to me the only real answer would be threat of mutual destruction. Even if the Russians, U.S., Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al. quit giving money to the fight.....it wouldn't stop anything. You HATE each other that much......"

It's simple. End the apartheid. There are 1.5 million Palestinians living inside Israel right now. Some clashes do happen based on hate here and there, but by far and large, they did not cause much trouble before despite your claims that Palestinians "simply hate the Jews". The solution must be to give ALL people, form the Jordan river to the Middeteranian sea EQUAL rights to representation, education and resources, the ability to travel freely and without hampering. That's the real solution. The south aftican apartheid ended, and the Israeli one should too.

Finally, I leave you with these precious quotes from famous Israeli and Zionist leaders themselves,

"We must expel Arabs and take their places." -- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

Did you read what I wrote Shanus? I requote myself:

medfreak wrote:

Did this guy work with Hitler to block Jewish immigration to Palestine? Absolutely. Did he organize raids and counter raids against Zionist organization? Yes. Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that.

He met with the Nazis? Yes. He lived in Berlin running away from legal prosecution? Yes. Does that make him a Nazi? I don't know does this picture make Rumsfeld a bathist Iraqi?

Oh lookie, Grandpa Bush helped Hitler come to power, therefore, since Bush is a blood relative to his grand daddy, he must be a Nazi too!

Basically that is what you are doing Shanus. Tit for tat it is.

ShanusMaximus wrote:

@Meds You guys sit there and try to label the Israelis as "Nazis".....I have CLEARLY shown that the godfather of the Palestinian movement WAS A NAZI!!! There is a saying that schoolchildren use that I think is quite fitting......"He who smelt it, dealt it."

Just because he wasn't "elected" means NOTHING. He was and is still listened to as an authority....or as his Nephew Arafat publicly said, "our HERO al-Husseini".

No wonder there can never be any comprimise.....from what I have seen the Israelis have tried to compromise only to have it flung back in there face. But of course......it was all a Zionist plot....just like everything in the world. UNREASONABLE.

"According to you as long as one Palestinian kills one Israeli, Israel can kill 1400 in return, and they would be equally culprit."

So, you would call it "justified" if the Palestians kill one Israeli and then the Israelis kill one Palestinan, then you wouldn't be bitching??? I know why more Palestinians are killed than Israelis....because Israelis don't surround targets with Israeli human shields. The Palestinian "military" leadership is unreasonable......

Wow. I heard so many fallacies before, but to blame the start of the entire conflict on Al-Husseyni is entirely new to me. Hell even Ben Gorion wouldn't have said that. And you call me a revisionist? Where the fuck do you bring this shit from? Avigdor Lieberman's ass? The conflict did not start with Palestinian Jews living for thousands of years in Palestine. The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in. Israel tried to compromise? When the fuck did it did that? When it raped the west bank with hundreds of settlements? Israeli compromise is a myth. The longer the so called "negotiations" went, the more rights the Palestinians lost. It's all in plain sight.

Did you even bother to read this bloody report in this article Shanus? Or are you here to just bitch nonsensically? This was an independent report by Judge that was the chief investigator in Rowandan and Yugoslavian warcrimes before.

"Goldstone's report, which came at the end of a six-month inquiry and will be presented to the UN Human Rights Council later this month, said Israel deliberately attacked civilians, failed to take precautions to minimise loss of civilian life and cited strong evidence that Israeli forces committed "grave breaches" of the Geneva Conventions."

Israel did not just happen to kill civilians because they were next to militants, it DELIBERATELY killed them. You don't kill nearly a thousand Civilians, mostly women and children because your "smart bombs" had to attack the militants next to them. That's the plain bloody truth.

So the report basically is consistent with the findings of the other human rights organizations, that Israel targeted civilians, Israel targeted civilians who were carrying white flags, Israel systematically targeted the Palestinian infrastructure. The findings were consistent with those of the other human rights organizations: Israel is guilty of a very significant number of war crimes. And also, the findings which were—other reports, the same conclusions,that the Palestinians were not using hospitals to hide Hamas officials. There’s no evidence that the ambulances Israel targeted were carrying Hamas militants or ammunition. And most significantly, in terms of the coverage during the Gaza massacre, the report found, as did Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, there’s no evidence whatsoever—and I would want to underline that—there’s no evidence whatsoever that Hamas was guilty of human shielding.But on the other hand, there is significant evidence, actually copious evidence, that Israel was guilty of human shielding.

""Human Rights Watch has also reported extensively on the coerced use of Palestinian civilians during military operations, and documented the use of Palestinian civilians as “human shields” and for military purposes during the Israeli military operations in Jenin in 2002. The Israeli High Court confirmed the illegality of using human shields in 2002.

As recently as July 2006, Israeli and Palestinian human rights groups have documented the IDF’s forcible use of Palestinians as human shields in a well publicized incident during military operations in Beit Hanoun. According to the groups, the IDF blindfolded six civilians, including two minors, and forced them to stand in front of soldiers who took over civilian homes during a raid in northern Gaza.""

Are you serious? Do you call this "Unreasonable"? If this is not a war crime I don't know what is.

"SO.......I will ask the question again....What do you want done?? What is everyone supposed to do? What would bring reason and reality to this situation?? Lay it out for me.......Because to me the only real answer would be threat of mutual destruction. Even if the Russians, U.S., Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al. quit giving money to the fight.....it wouldn't stop anything. You HATE each other that much......"

It's simple. End the apartheid. There are 1.5 million Palestinians living inside Israel right now. Some clashes do happen based on hate here and there, but by far and large, they did not cause much trouble before despite your claims that Palestinians "simply hate the Jews". The solution must be to give ALL people, form the Jordan river to the Middeteranian sea EQUAL rights to representation, education and resources, the ability to travel freely and without hampering. That's the real solution. The south aftican apartheid ended, and the Israeli one should too.

Finally, I leave you with these precious quotes from famous Israeli and Zionist leaders themselves,

"We must expel Arabs and take their places." -- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

Lol@Shanus waxing lyrical about "nazi collaborators/sympathisers. I think you'd best be looking at your own Nation and how your "heroes" of industry/banking financed and supplied Hitler at every level. If this is still going and i have time i'll post up some disturbing facts for you to chew over.

"No wonder there can never be any comprimise.....from what I have seen the Israelis have tried to compromise only to have it flung back in there face. But of course......it was all a Zionist plot....just like everything in the world. UNREASONABLE."

From what you've seen?...lol...you're the guy who claimed Israel is not in the top 10 recipients of US aid....so i think it's safe to assume that you've seen nothing of the reality.

ps, i think you're a closet Nazi.

Lol@Shanus waxing lyrical about "nazi collaborators/sympathisers. I think you'd best be looking at your own Nation and how your "heroes" of industry/banking financed and supplied Hitler at every level. If this is still going and i have time i'll post up some disturbing facts for you to chew over.

"No wonder there can never be any comprimise.....from what I have seen the Israelis have tried to compromise only to have it flung back in there face. But of course......it was all a Zionist plot....just like everything in the world. UNREASONABLE."

From what you've seen?...lol...you're the guy who claimed Israel is not in the top 10 recipients of US aid....so i think it's safe to assume that you've seen nothing of the reality.

"Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that."

I didn't say he did. You are the one who is saying that. I am saying that he actively worked for the Nazi's. He headed up the Handzar division which engaged in ethnic cleansing of Jews, Romas and Bosnians. He used the Nazi rhetoric to solidify Muslims against Jews NOT JUST IN PALESTINE. Denile is not just a river in Egypt, Meds.

"The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in."

Yes and it was headed up by the Arab Nationalist Nazi Al-Husseini. He spread propaganda through hate and fear. I guess it would be cool here in America if we just started wacking regular Mexicans for being forced upon us by our own government.....oh but that WOULDN'T be good....would it?

"Israel did not just happen to kill civilians because they were next to militants, it DELIBERATELY killed them. You don't kill nearly a thousand Civilians, mostly women and children because your "smart bombs" had to attack the militants next to them. That's the plain bloody truth."

So Human Rights Watch just doesn't know what they are talking about eh? Admit it. Admit that Palestinians use human shields.

"Are you serious? Do you call this "Unreasonable"? If this is not a war crime I don't know what is.

I didn't say it wasn't. I said they have battled the Palestinians unreasonability with being more unreasonable and it goes on forever. So if you want to do the whole WAR CRIMES crap. Palestinian authorities are just as guilty. FACT.

"Israel tried to compromise? When the fuck did it did that?"

Israel has trashed settlers towns in the past in compromise. But this is the one that showed me forces within the Palestinian Authortity are disengenous about any real progress towards peace. When the Israelis pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians were supposed to use the Greenhouses and buildings to help forward a Palestinian state, they fucking trashed them. Hamas was rolling around screaming about how they finally had the Jews on the run.....and they started firing rockets into Israel......What about that? That is how you prove yourself to be taken seriously??? Over how many weeks were rockets fired into Israel before they finally had enough shit?

"It's simple. End the apartheid."

What does that constitute? Will the Palestinian authorites recognize the Israeli state? I think there should be a Palestinian and Israeli state......but with people like Hamas buying into Al-Husseinis old rhetoric...and with extremist Jews like Ben Gurion, that is not going to happen.

"There are 1.5 million Palestinians living inside Israel right now. Some clashes do happen based on hate here and there, but by far and large, they did not cause much trouble before despite your claims that Palestinians "simply hate the Jews"."

So....if they didn't cause much trouble before.....it takes somebody to mobilze and matasticize that hate. It takes a person like Al-Husseini. I have admitted that Israel has done shitty things. I just want you to admit that everything the Palestinians do is not always justified and/or makes their own situation worse.

@Scunt

"I think you'd best be looking at your own Nation and how your "heroes" of industry/banking financed and supplied Hitler at every level."

Please you little bitch. You are now deflecting. You are not saying that Al-Husseini wasn't a Nazi....you are trying to use the kindergarten tactic of using someone elses bad behaviour to justify some other bad behaviour. Now why would you do that? Because you know damn well he was a REAL NAZI and you just can't admit it.

"ps, i think you're a closet Nazi."

Lol! That doesn't mean anything coming from you. You throw that word around like so much confetti. (usually based on unsubstantiated feeeeeeeeeeeeelings) Then you get all bent out of shape when I show a direct corrolation to a real Nazi. Not that I feeeeeeeeeeel he is a Nazi....he really was.

@Meds

"Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that."

I didn't say he did. You are the one who is saying that. I am saying that he actively worked for the Nazi's. He headed up the Handzar division which engaged in ethnic cleansing of Jews, Romas and Bosnians. He used the Nazi rhetoric to solidify Muslims against Jews NOT JUST IN PALESTINE. Denile is not just a river in Egypt, Meds.

"The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in."

Yes and it was headed up by the Arab Nationalist Nazi Al-Husseini. He spread propaganda through hate and fear. I guess it would be cool here in America if we just started wacking regular Mexicans for being forced upon us by our own government.....oh but that WOULDN'T be good....would it?

"Israel did not just happen to kill civilians because they were next to militants, it DELIBERATELY killed them. You don't kill nearly a thousand Civilians, mostly women and children because your "smart bombs" had to attack the militants next to them. That's the plain bloody truth."

So Human Rights Watch just doesn't know what they are talking about eh? Admit it. Admit that Palestinians use human shields.

"Are you serious? Do you call this "Unreasonable"? If this is not a war crime I don't know what is.

I didn't say it wasn't. I said they have battled the Palestinians unreasonability with being more unreasonable and it goes on forever. So if you want to do the whole WAR CRIMES crap. Palestinian authorities are just as guilty. FACT.

"Israel tried to compromise? When the fuck did it did that?"

Israel has trashed settlers towns in the past in compromise. But this is the one that showed me forces within the Palestinian Authortity are disengenous about any real progress towards peace. When the Israelis pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians were supposed to use the Greenhouses and buildings to help forward a Palestinian state, they fucking trashed them. Hamas was rolling around screaming about how they finally had the Jews on the run.....and they started firing rockets into Israel......What about that? That is how you prove yourself to be taken seriously??? Over how many weeks were rockets fired into Israel before they finally had enough shit?

"It's simple. End the apartheid."

What does that constitute? Will the Palestinian authorites recognize the Israeli state? I think there should be a Palestinian and Israeli state......but with people like Hamas buying into Al-Husseinis old rhetoric...and with extremist Jews like Ben Gurion, that is not going to happen.

"There are 1.5 million Palestinians living inside Israel right now. Some clashes do happen based on hate here and there, but by far and large, they did not cause much trouble before despite your claims that Palestinians "simply hate the Jews"."

So....if they didn't cause much trouble before.....it takes somebody to mobilze and matasticize that hate. It takes a person like Al-Husseini. I have admitted that Israel has done shitty things. I just want you to admit that everything the Palestinians do is not always justified and/or makes their own situation worse.

@Scunt

"I think you'd best be looking at your own Nation and how your "heroes" of industry/banking financed and supplied Hitler at every level."

Please you little bitch. You are now deflecting. You are not saying that Al-Husseini wasn't a Nazi....you are trying to use the kindergarten tactic of using someone elses bad behaviour to justify some other bad behaviour. Now why would you do that? Because you know damn well he was a REAL NAZI and you just can't admit it.

"ps, i think you're a closet Nazi."

Lol! That doesn't mean anything coming from you. You throw that word around like so much confetti. (usually based on unsubstantiated feeeeeeeeeeeeelings) Then you get all bent out of shape when I show a direct corrolation to a real Nazi. Not that I feeeeeeeeeeel he is a Nazi....he really was.

Ha! The title of the article:"UN: Israel Terrorised Gazans In War" You have yet to respond properly. Instead, you "deflect" from the issue at hand and go on and on about one individuals support of the Nazis in the '30s and '40s as if it somehow excuses Israels war crimes in the present.

Now let's look at your response from the Lincoln article where i called him (Lincoln) a racist cunt.

"He certainly was no abolitionist that is for sure.....however, you are being a retarded absolutist and you are judging from the seat of the 21st century. Without Lincoln, there would have been no way to go forward. I guess we should just tear down the statues and call him a piece of shit. Besides....let us live in the now...let us talk about England and Scotland and Ireland. ANY prominent black politicians? Any one? Any one? You sit there and judge our nation as racist....and yet not only do we have a president of color, we have black judges and politicians. Why don't you look at where YOUR country is at in this 21st century, clean up your own backyard and get the dead squirrel out of your ass.....then call me in the morning."

Your argument, your hypocrisy, your bigotry!

@Shanus,

"Please you little bitch. You are now deflecting."

Ha! The title of the article:"UN: Israel Terrorised Gazans In War" You have yet to respond properly. Instead, you "deflect" from the issue at hand and go on and on about one individuals support of the Nazis in the '30s and '40s as if it somehow excuses Israels war crimes in the present.

Now let's look at your response from the Lincoln article where i called him (Lincoln) a racist cunt.

"He certainly was no abolitionist that is for sure.....however, you are being a retarded absolutist and you are judging from the seat of the 21st century. Without Lincoln, there would have been no way to go forward. I guess we should just tear down the statues and call him a piece of shit. Besides....let us live in the now...let us talk about England and Scotland and Ireland. ANY prominent black politicians? Any one? Any one? You sit there and judge our nation as racist....and yet not only do we have a president of color, we have black judges and politicians. Why don't you look at where YOUR country is at in this 21st century, clean up your own backyard and get the dead squirrel out of your ass.....then call me in the morning."

"The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in."

Yes and it was headed up by the Arab Nationalist Nazi Al-Husseini. He spread propaganda through hate and fear. I guess it would be cool here in America if we just started wacking regular Mexicans for being forced upon us by our own government.....oh but that WOULDN'T be good....would it? [/quote]

You just SAID it. Your OWN government. The British mandate was NOT our government, it was a force of occupation, and I'll be damned if indigenous people don't have the right to fight settlers forced upon them by a government of occupation.

[quote user="ShanusMaximus"]@Meds

"Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that."

I didn't say he did. You are the one who is saying that. I am saying that he actively worked for the Nazi's. He headed up the Handzar division which engaged in ethnic cleansing of Jews, Romas and Bosnians. He used the Nazi rhetoric to solidify Muslims against Jews NOT JUST IN PALESTINE. Denile is not just a river in Egypt, Meds.

"The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in."

Yes and it was headed up by the Arab Nationalist Nazi Al-Husseini. He spread propaganda through hate and fear. I guess it would be cool here in America if we just started wacking regular Mexicans for being forced upon us by our own government.....oh but that WOULDN'T be good....would it?

"Israel did not just happen to kill civilians because they were next to militants, it DELIBERATELY killed them. You don't kill nearly a thousand Civilians, mostly women and children because your "smart bombs" had to attack the militants next to them. That's the plain bloody truth."

So Human Rights Watch just doesn't know what they are talking about eh? Admit it. Admit that Palestinians use human shields.

[/quote]

So the UN fact finding report headed by a well known Israeli is wrong?

You ADMIT it. You are wrong and the UN report REFUTED this.

So the report basically is consistent with the findings of the other human rights organizations, that Israel targeted civilians, Israel targeted civilians who were carrying white flags, Israel systematically targeted the Palestinian infrastructure. The findings were consistent with those of the other human rights organizations: Israel is guilty of a very significant number of war crimes. And also, the findings which were—other reports, the same conclusions,that the Palestinians were not using hospitals to hide Hamas officials. There’s no evidence that the ambulances Israel targeted were carrying Hamas militants or ammunition. And most significantly, in terms of the coverage during the Gaza massacre, the report found, as did Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, there’s no evidence whatsoever—and I would want to underline that—there’s no evidence whatsoever that Hamas was guilty of human shielding.But on the other hand, there is significant evidence, actually copious evidence, that Israel was guilty of human shielding.

On the other hand Israeli soldiers stick civilian palestinians ON THEIR FUCKING jeeps...

[quote user="ShanusMaximus"]@Meds

"Are you serious? Do you call this "Unreasonable"? If this is not a war crime I don't know what is.

I didn't say it wasn't. I said they have battled the Palestinians unreasonability with being more unreasonable and it goes on forever. So if you want to do the whole WAR CRIMES crap. Palestinian authorities are just as guilty. FACT.

[/quote]

They are guilty of MANY things, yes. JUST as guilty? Bullshit. Not even close. But I don't blame you. Reading letters on a screen does not give a sense of the reality on the ground.

[quote user="ShanusMaximus"]@Meds "Israel tried to compromise? When the fuck did it did that?"

Israel has trashed settlers towns in the past in compromise. But this is the one that showed me forces within the Palestinian Authortity are disengenous about any real progress towards peace. When the Israelis pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians were supposed to use the Greenhouses and buildings to help forward a Palestinian state, they fucking trashed them. Hamas was rolling around screaming about how they finally had the Jews on the run.....and they started firing rockets into Israel......What about that? That is how you prove yourself to be taken seriously??? Over how many weeks were rockets fired into Israel before they finally had enough shit?

[/quote]

1) All Settlements under international law in post 1967 borders are ILLEGAL as the ruling said in the international court of justice under international law. ALL OF THEM. What Israel did was remove MOBILE lego houses in the west bank at best. No REAL settlement was demolished, ever. In fact they continue to expand by the minute.

2) Claiming that removing or halting settlements is in "good faith" is like claiming that Israel should give something in return to Hamas stopping suicide bombings. BOTH ARE ILLEGAL and concessions should not be made for halting illegal activities in the first place.

3) Hamas didn't shoot rockets out of some crazy routine. Gaza is under SIEGE. Israel constantly sniped and killed gazan farmers long before the rockets ever went into Israel. Just since the Gaza massacre earlier this year ended, tens of Palestinian farmers, Fishermen were sniped and killed, along with incursions every now and then. Gaza is under supplied, the land borders are closed, the sea ports are closed and the air is closed. The medical facilities were overwhelmed and the 800 thousand refugees were in serious peril. If you are telling me you are willing to sit by and let your occupiers seige your city and not respond, you are deluding yourself. What would you have them rather do? Look at each other and hope for someone to do something after 60 years? I'm pretty sure you would make for a great founding father for the US:

"Hey guys, listen the English are nice people, let them keep taxing us and ruling us and we have no say in it, and we'll just wait for them to be nice and leave us alone". Boy you would have made a great revolution.

In fact I wish the Palestinians were being simply taxed and not represented. It's far far worse than that...

[quote user="ShanusMaximus"]@Meds

"It's simple. End the apartheid."

What does that constitute? Will the Palestinian authorites recognize the Israeli state? I think there should be a Palestinian and Israeli state......but with people like Hamas buying into Al-Husseinis old rhetoric...and with extremist Jews like Ben Gurion, that is not going to happen.

[/quote]

The Palestinian authority ALREADY recognizes an Israeli state. That has been in the past for almost 16 years now. Didn't you get the memo? The real question is whether Israel will EVER recognize a real functioning Palestinian state.

[quote user="ShanusMaximus"]@Meds

"There are 1.5 million Palestinians living inside Israel right now. Some clashes do happen based on hate here and there, but by far and large, they did not cause much trouble before despite your claims that Palestinians "simply hate the Jews"."

So....if they didn't cause much trouble before.....it takes somebody to mobilze and matasticize that hate. It takes a person like Al-Husseini. I have admitted that Israel has done shitty things. I just want you to admit that everything the Palestinians do is not always justified and/or makes their own situation worse.

[/quote]

I already said this:

Did Palestinian factions ever commit war crimes before? Certainly, Suicide Bombings, and non-specific rocket attacks at Israeli populations come under that. Does any of that justify extermination of thousands of Palestinians in 3 weeks? Fuck no.

And you really have a fetish with this Husseini and have to mention him even in arguments that are not related whatsoever. Israel not only did "shitty" things. It is an OCCUPYING force and will always be treated as such until it ends the occupation or it ends the apartheid. Ending an occupation means giving the Palestinians the right to self determination and building their own state, ending the apartheid means creating a single state from all the people equally regardless of religion.

I'll leave you with more quotes from our peace loving Israeli leaders:

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

"The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in."

Yes and it was headed up by the Arab Nationalist Nazi Al-Husseini. He spread propaganda through hate and fear. I guess it would be cool here in America if we just started wacking regular Mexicans for being forced upon us by our own government.....oh but that WOULDN'T be good....would it?

You just SAID it. Your OWN government. The British mandate was NOT our government, it was a force of occupation, and I'll be damned if indigenous people don't have the right to fight settlers forced upon them by a government of occupation.

ShanusMaximus wrote:

@Meds

"Did he encourage the Holocaust or promote it? The is no evidence to that."

I didn't say he did. You are the one who is saying that. I am saying that he actively worked for the Nazi's. He headed up the Handzar division which engaged in ethnic cleansing of Jews, Romas and Bosnians. He used the Nazi rhetoric to solidify Muslims against Jews NOT JUST IN PALESTINE. Denile is not just a river in Egypt, Meds.

"The conflict started when the Brits started to actively ship European Jews and force them upon the Palestinians and settle them in."

Yes and it was headed up by the Arab Nationalist Nazi Al-Husseini. He spread propaganda through hate and fear. I guess it would be cool here in America if we just started wacking regular Mexicans for being forced upon us by our own government.....oh but that WOULDN'T be good....would it?

"Israel did not just happen to kill civilians because they were next to militants, it DELIBERATELY killed them. You don't kill nearly a thousand Civilians, mostly women and children because your "smart bombs" had to attack the militants next to them. That's the plain bloody truth."

So Human Rights Watch just doesn't know what they are talking about eh? Admit it. Admit that Palestinians use human shields.

So the UN fact finding report headed by a well known Israeli is wrong?

You ADMIT it. You are wrong and the UN report REFUTED this.

So the report basically is consistent with the findings of the other human rights organizations, that Israel targeted civilians, Israel targeted civilians who were carrying white flags, Israel systematically targeted the Palestinian infrastructure. The findings were consistent with those of the other human rights organizations: Israel is guilty of a very significant number of war crimes. And also, the findings which were—other reports, the same conclusions,that the Palestinians were not using hospitals to hide Hamas officials. There’s no evidence that the ambulances Israel targeted were carrying Hamas militants or ammunition. And most significantly, in terms of the coverage during the Gaza massacre, the report found, as did Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, there’s no evidence whatsoever—and I would want to underline that—there’s no evidence whatsoever that Hamas was guilty of human shielding.But on the other hand, there is significant evidence, actually copious evidence, that Israel was guilty of human shielding.

On the other hand Israeli soldiers stick civilian palestinians ON THEIR FUCKING jeeps...

ShanusMaximus wrote:

@Meds

"Are you serious? Do you call this "Unreasonable"? If this is not a war crime I don't know what is.

I didn't say it wasn't. I said they have battled the Palestinians unreasonability with being more unreasonable and it goes on forever. So if you want to do the whole WAR CRIMES crap. Palestinian authorities are just as guilty. FACT.

They are guilty of MANY things, yes. JUST as guilty? Bullshit. Not even close. But I don't blame you. Reading letters on a screen does not give a sense of the reality on the ground.

ShanusMaximus wrote:

@Meds "Israel tried to compromise? When the fuck did it did that?"

Israel has trashed settlers towns in the past in compromise. But this is the one that showed me forces within the Palestinian Authortity are disengenous about any real progress towards peace. When the Israelis pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians were supposed to use the Greenhouses and buildings to help forward a Palestinian state, they fucking trashed them. Hamas was rolling around screaming about how they finally had the Jews on the run.....and they started firing rockets into Israel......What about that? That is how you prove yourself to be taken seriously??? Over how many weeks were rockets fired into Israel before they finally had enough shit?

1) All Settlements under international law in post 1967 borders are ILLEGAL as the ruling said in the international court of justice under international law. ALL OF THEM. What Israel did was remove MOBILE lego houses in the west bank at best. No REAL settlement was demolished, ever. In fact they continue to expand by the minute.

2) Claiming that removing or halting settlements is in "good faith" is like claiming that Israel should give something in return to Hamas stopping suicide bombings. BOTH ARE ILLEGAL and concessions should not be made for halting illegal activities in the first place.

3) Hamas didn't shoot rockets out of some crazy routine. Gaza is under SIEGE. Israel constantly sniped and killed gazan farmers long before the rockets ever went into Israel. Just since the Gaza massacre earlier this year ended, tens of Palestinian farmers, Fishermen were sniped and killed, along with incursions every now and then. Gaza is under supplied, the land borders are closed, the sea ports are closed and the air is closed. The medical facilities were overwhelmed and the 800 thousand refugees were in serious peril. If you are telling me you are willing to sit by and let your occupiers seige your city and not respond, you are deluding yourself. What would you have them rather do? Look at each other and hope for someone to do something after 60 years? I'm pretty sure you would make for a great founding father for the US:

"Hey guys, listen the English are nice people, let them keep taxing us and ruling us and we have no say in it, and we'll just wait for them to be nice and leave us alone". Boy you would have made a great revolution.

In fact I wish the Palestinians were being simply taxed and not represented. It's far far worse than that...

ShanusMaximus wrote:

@Meds

"It's simple. End the apartheid."

What does that constitute? Will the Palestinian authorites recognize the Israeli state? I think there should be a Palestinian and Israeli state......but with people like Hamas buying into Al-Husseinis old rhetoric...and with extremist Jews like Ben Gurion, that is not going to happen.

The Palestinian authority ALREADY recognizes an Israeli state. That has been in the past for almost 16 years now. Didn't you get the memo? The real question is whether Israel will EVER recognize a real functioning Palestinian state.

ShanusMaximus wrote:

@Meds

"There are 1.5 million Palestinians living inside Israel right now. Some clashes do happen based on hate here and there, but by far and large, they did not cause much trouble before despite your claims that Palestinians "simply hate the Jews"."

So....if they didn't cause much trouble before.....it takes somebody to mobilze and matasticize that hate. It takes a person like Al-Husseini. I have admitted that Israel has done shitty things. I just want you to admit that everything the Palestinians do is not always justified and/or makes their own situation worse.

I already said this:

Did Palestinian factions ever commit war crimes before? Certainly, Suicide Bombings, and non-specific rocket attacks at Israeli populations come under that. Does any of that justify extermination of thousands of Palestinians in 3 weeks? Fuck no.

And you really have a fetish with this Husseini and have to mention him even in arguments that are not related whatsoever. Israel not only did "shitty" things. It is an OCCUPYING force and will always be treated as such until it ends the occupation or it ends the apartheid. Ending an occupation means giving the Palestinians the right to self determination and building their own state, ending the apartheid means creating a single state from all the people equally regardless of religion.

I'll leave you with more quotes from our peace loving Israeli leaders:

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

[quote user="scout"]Now let's look at your response from the Lincoln article where i called him (Lincoln) a racist cunt.

"He certainly was no abolitionist that is for sure.....however, you are being a retarded absolutist and you are judging from the seat of the 21st century. Without Lincoln, there would have been no way to go forward. I guess we should just tear down the statues and call him a piece of shit. [/quote] Holy fuck, scout praised an American. Why wasn't I informed that hell has frozen over and pigs now fly?

scout wrote:

Now let's look at your response from the Lincoln article where i called him (Lincoln) a racist cunt.

"He certainly was no abolitionist that is for sure.....however, you are being a retarded absolutist and you are judging from the seat of the 21st century. Without Lincoln, there would have been no way to go forward. I guess we should just tear down the statues and call him a piece of shit.

Holy fuck, scout praised an American. Why wasn't I informed that hell has frozen over and pigs now fly?