silent surburban girl releasing her voice, not yet knowing what all she wants to say about her life and the things that make it spin. do you have to be 18 to be here? you'll know when i know.

Tuesday, July 17, 2007

how come you're here at like the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers?

I've learned a great deal in my years of marriage. How to compromise on decisions (Check that. How to make a decision when no one else steps into one). That it's better if we don't share a bathroom. Always have a book to read when there's 12 episodes of "Farscape" on the DVR and his itchy trigger finger is on the remote. That even though someone says they believe they'll die if they eat onions, they won't actually do so when you cook with them anyway (case proven time and time again).In all I've learned, however, there seems to be one thing I've forgotten.How to date.Of course, this is good news for my husband, what with the vows we exchanged and all. He's forgotten how to date, too, so props to us on that whole marriage thing working out so far.But the gist of this is that in our amnesiac state - not necessarily brought on as a result of marriage, but perhaps contributed to - it does seem we have forgotten how to date each other.Being a reader with a magnetic core that propels me toward the self help and sexuality sections of every bookstore I enter (I leave it at home on the nights I'm scheduled to work because aside from shooing away the silly 11 year old boys giggling over a drawing of boobs in some sex book, it really gets in the way of accomplishing anything), I'm well versed on the whole idea that dating your spouse helps keep the romance in marriage alive. It sparks conversation and makes you eager to be around each other. And, of course, these marital dates often result in sex, so you skip past that whole awkward "do you really make that face when you eat?" stage of getting to know someone. You know they already do. They also dig lots of science fiction television and you can live with that. Because you have a book.Anyway, before my husband and I created heirs to our substantial pop bottle redemption fortune, we'd often go out. We'd go for drives in the middle of the afternoon simply to spend the time together. We'd make out (that's code for "not just make out") at a drive in. We made those faces.Fast forward a few years. The kids are little and cute and the grandparents loved to oogle over them, so we could visit them and then sneak out of their houses and have a couple hours to ourselves before they ever realized we were gone. Dating and swooning still well in place.Hit the brakes on the present. We still rely on the naivete of the grandparents to care for our children (they've never had childcare other than a family member because honestly, I have to figure out a way to pay for my kids to go to college and I can't afford to be giving beer money to the teenage girl down the street on a regular basis). The grandparents are a bit older. The kids are a lot more responsibility. They're noisier and require a bit more entertaining. So we don't tend to foist them onto them as much. We wait around and hope that one of them will call and offer to keep them for a few hours or (jackpot!) overnight.My mom offered to do just that this past weekend and I was ecstatic. I love these boys with everything I have, but sometimes I need to recover my house and restore my ability to mother them by not having them around for a few hours. Plus, I'm eager to spend some time alone with my husband. We do much independently of the other these days, just by the basis of schedules and abilities, I felt it was important we connect.So Friday night, he returns from dropping the boys at my mom's. We're broke in the sense that cobwebs grow in our pockets, so we cooked a nice meal at home and ate it outside. In silence. Except for when my husband would talk about the boys. Or work. Or work the boys could do around the palace."We're on a date here..." I'd remind him. Then we'd go back to eating quietly.Granted, we're both stressed. We don't have the money to capriciously go out and do fancy things (or cripes, even not so fancy things). There's lots of things coming down the pike here that never make just relaxing and giving it all up that easy to do. But the goal of the night was to do just that. So my hopes were raised a bit when we ended up on the couch in our darkened living room. I've done some quality dating on a couch.However, an hour later, we were still each on opposite sides, the sun has set and blackened the room completely, and we're debating (complete with eye rolling) the existence of hell as spurred by an episode of "20/20". Jealous yet? "20 - freakin' - 20"! I've not seen an episode of that since I was 12 years old. An hour later, he goes to bed. I'm up flipping past the 12 episodes of "Farscape" on the DVR, and I'm thinking just show sucky the night was. Completely. That I should have just worked, as I typically do on Friday nights, that I'm irritated at the inability to have a conversation, and that I just simply miss knowing how to date.Perhaps I put too much pressure on the idea of this rare time we get alone. Maybe I expect entirely too much. I may acquiesce to some of that. But not entirely, and not just because I enjoy debating things aside from the existence of hell. What do you think? Do you still comfortably date your spouse? Do you find that I lost my point in this entry about the middle of the third paragraph? Do you think we put too much pressure on the other person to be the one who comes up with stellar ideas? Do you believe in hell?I do, just a little bit. At least it felt like last Friday night was a little like a low rent version of hell. And I believe the kitchen uses onions there, too, so you still can't get away with that whole "I'll die if I eat another onion" argument there, either.

26 Comments:

I don't believe I have ever dated. Even before my husband was my husband. Although it could very well be because I was already in a long term relationship when I met up and when that ended up poorly, I just fell into a relationship with him (when in a sudden epiphany I realized, holy crap! I am in LOVE with this man!). Maybe that is why I love doing simple things with him... going for a drive, wandering aimlessly around the mall (not shopping, because neither of us like to shop, just wandering). We recently went to the zoo. It was a crappy zoo, but we had a great time together. I just love being with him.

Which is why I am thrilled to have this week off from work. You see, he's been on night shifts for the last 7 weeks. 5PM - Midnight. And I work from 8:30-5:00. He gets up in the morning and drives me to work, not only to spare me the crowded public transportation that is so close and easy to use, but because otherwise? We don't see each other. So we're happy with our 30-40 drive in the morning. Then he comes home and goes to sleep. :)

This week I get to spend day time with him. So far our exciting week has consisted of him driving me to and from my Barium Xrays. Wheee! Do we know how to rock it or what?

Good lord... I never write this much in comments on blogs. You have this weird power over me. I apologize for all my rambling!! You have a beautiful way of writing and I thank you for entertaining me. :)

I know exactly what you mean!! I don't know how to talk about anything other than my kids or work or my desperate plans to somehow rig the lotto and realize my dreams of vast fortune. It occurred to me a few times when we were out last week (for the big 10th anniversary) that maybe we should talk about something other than the kids, work, etc. Except that we're both so enamored with our amazing kids that we both really just like to talk about them! I'm sure we'll get over that as they get older. We didn't have to discuss who gets our preordered copy of Harry Potter 7 first when it shows up on Saturday because we ordered two copies -- that, my friend, is the key to a happy marriage.

Oh, I know what you mean here, DKG. Molly and I have gotten to the point where we just like to spend time together, any which way we can. Gotta run out for milk at 10PM? Hey, let me go with you. And maybe, if we're feeling adventurous, we can wander down the 'Health' aisles at Meijer's and check out the new lubricants. . .

Honestly, any more, we'll just go for walks together, or to Home Depot, or whatever. Our kids are old enough, tho, to either watch themselves, or for the older ones to look after the younger ones. That was a watershed moment, when we got to that point, let me tell you. . .

Of the two of us, Molly is far-and-away the more talkative, so I can usually get away with letting her set the conversational agenda, and it usually turns into something interesting. Eventually. We talk a lot about the kids, but these days, (*cough*teenagers*cough*) that's a more 'interesting' topic than we wish it was. . .

Eh, dating is over-rated. Time together, however, is precious. IMHO, too precious to set rules like no kids or work or church talk. Soon as you set such rules, all you can think of is that very subject (or subjects) and the silence you experience becomes the only alternative.

I'd like to date, have tried to date, but she'e been convinced (by Mum and by friends) that playing hard-to-get is still a valid technique. Thusly if I propose a date night she'll initially say yes, then anything (and I mean ANYTHING) that might come up will veto that date. Kid have the sniffles? 20% chance sister may call? Hang nail? You name it and I find myself having to either give up or insist but if we do go out the subject of the night will be what she gave up to be with me. Sad but true, if I plan 10 dates we'll go on 1-2. If, however, I make a spur-of-the-moment invite (which works now that we have teens) the odds suddenly go up to 7-8 out of ten. In fact, just 90 minutes ago we returned from one such spur-of-the-moment outting. And it was good. And we chatted about work, kids, church. Oh, and eventually, us. It was all good. But there will be nothing happening later, which is another guideline. There's only so much 'intimacy' she can stand in a single day. Too much might spoil me. You know how it is. I can tell.

It's been so long since we have "dated" that I don't know what the hell we would do. No kids to scream at to behave, no cutting up someone elses food, no taking multiple trips to the restroom because "I have to Peeeeeeee Momma!". But even though we don't do the dates, I like the fact that at night, after the kids go to bed, we still sit in bed together and watch a little tv. Then after the lights go out, we just sit and blab. Granted, most of the time it's me doing the talking, lol, but hey it's conversation. We even play 20 questions sometimes. Or that stupid game "If you could choose to die by shark or lion, which would you choose and why?" game. lol. I know, it's silly, but I love the fact that we still can play little games together. It's fun. But in public, at a resteraunt or movie, I think we'd be clueless on how to connect! lol

Ok. This is driving me nuts! First FTN steals part of the post that I was going to wrtie about our weekend.

And now?

Now YOU have to go and write the second half of my post. What is it with you people?!?!

Ok. Mini rant over with now.

Anyways your post rings so true. In short I had an excellant time with Summer on our Reno weekend. I really did. The thing is that we didn't talk very much at all. The time we spent together was very much needed but it's like we have forgotten how to be alone together and how to carry on a conversation. The rest is just going to have to wait for me to find the time to put it on my own blog.CH

I think the element that changes things for ME, is the fact that we don't have any kids. We've been together for almost 9 years and married for nearly 5, and always have a fine time on dates. We are still able to make conversation, usually about our plans for the future, or laughing at one of our 19,394 inside jokes. Unfortunately, we don't get to go out nearly as often as I'd (we'd?) like due to time and finances. Our sex after dates ratio is about 2:3 in favor of sex after dates.

that being said, I had to completely revamp the way I think about date nights. Granted the time is a bit easier because my kids are teenages and can stay home alone whenever we want to go out, and we do actually go out more than the average couple, I too would get frustrated with the "quality" of the dates for lack of better word. It didn't matter where we go or what we were doing, but there was always talk of things that would bore me to tears, still do. Stocks stocks stocks, investing, sports investing, work, investing, stocks, sports, blah blah blah. But you know what, he probably felt, no, I KNOW he felt the same way when I talked about the things that interested me. We had to set up some ground rules. I pretend to listen about stocks and maybe even make a comment here and there about investing so it looks like I'm interested (and this is REALLY hard let me tell you!) and he in turn nods his head when I talk about turtles, hiking, kayaking, flowers, and crafts. and I know it's not easy for him either. We still struggle thru all of that, but what I think it comes down to, is each of us wanting to be heard, our thoughts and opinions valued, and someone to connect to. We do talk about the kids too, but for the most part, we save all of that for non date nights.

There was a point in time when one of us ALWAYS went to bed alone while the other stayed up on the computer or tv or whathaveyou, and that's another "rule" we've established for the health of our marriage. We go to bed together. this took some time to actually put into effect, but we've got it pretty well worked out now. for the most part. Sometimes our dates are not at all about going out to dinner or movies or anything that requires admission. Sometimes it's a walk in the park, on a beach, going hiking, going kayaking, tour the winery, free concerts in the park, etc. fortunately I've always lived somewhere where there's LOTS of things to do, but my alltime favorite dates are just sitting on the deck in my own yard, next to each other on the bench, listening to the sun set and watching the radio (he usually has a game on and I comment on the bats flitting overhead) each of us in our own element, but still chitchatting here and there and holding hands all the while. Those are the nights I like the best because we listen to each other and every once in awhile, we find something that we're both interested in to talk about. I guess that's one of the curses when you marry someone who is your exact opposite in every way.Damn....I should have just written my own post.

Especially the part about going to bed at (at least roughly) the same time. That's not always easy to pull off, but the 'bang-for-the-buck' is amazingly high, in terms of keeping the two of you in touch with each other.

It is hard. I like the "going to bed together" idea. Otherwise, someone (usually me) has fallen asleep and it makes for a quiet bedroom :o) Other than that, I think that xi summit has it right...if these topics are off limits, that's what ends up being in your thoughts ("Hey, did I tell you.....ummm, never mind...."). I also liked Stacie's comments. Keep working at it but try not to stress. Last of my unorganized thoughts....TV is a killer of conversation, intimacy and romance!

Thank you Desmond and yes...that going to bed at the same time was HUGE for us. Too bad it took us so long to get that. Our marriage is far from perfect, but we are working at it and I think that's key. We both realize that's something we need to do and those are a couple of the things I've learned along the way.Stacie

Such wonderful comments! It took me longer to respond than I think it takes me to post an entry. This probably will come as no shock to anyone, based on how I've been popping them off here lately.

Thanks to everyone...

Cat – No need to worry about lengthy replies or rambling around here. I built this city on my rambling. Ask anyone. They’ll gladly tell you, I’m sure! In my same rambling breath, let me add my appreciation for your kind words on my writing. Because this has been my first outlet in many years, I sometimes drop with the rambling, but if it carries some weird power, I should consider doing some type of good for the world!

And now you see just how rambling I can be, thanks to that first paragraph…

I, too, don’t have a vast dating experience background. I went from one long-term relationship into others, and even those involved nothing too terribly exciting. Concerts, drives, never leaving the apartment for other reasons. And obviously, it was a much different time in my life. I’m pretty sure my husband and I have no qualms spending time together; we just have this point where we look at each other when we get time alone and have to remember who the other one is sometimes!

Kelly – I wish you luck on rigging the lottery to amass your fortune. I only caution that you get that accomplished soon, for I believe my efforts will soon be paying off richly…once I scrape together enough one dollar bills to make it worth my while to even buy lottery tickets, that is. When I read about you winning, I will shake my fist in the air and yell your name! Then write you a letter, posing as a long lost cousin…

I do enjoy talking about my kids with my husband because in our interaction with them, we both get different things from each of them, so we like to share that with each other. Then after we’ve done that, one of us will eventually say, “Remember when we didn’t have kids?” and then we’ll look wistfully toward the horizon and recall sleeping more, not throwing away uneaten food, fewer odd smells around the place. And then we’ll start talking about them again. My goal in aging is to find some balance toward appreciating science fiction programs so I can at least share that with him as we sit in our Lazy-Boy recliners at the nursing home.

FTN – Kickboxing. Sport of the future.

Any truth to that rumor?

Rug’s – I, too, am in love with Lloyd. Lloyd pretty much set the bar for boys for me, I think. Besides, I like a guy who can operate under the thought that “…if you start out depressed everything's kind of a pleasant surprise.”

My husband and I pretty much pass each other at night due to our work schedules. We’ve done the whole really odd work schedule in the past and I’m pretty sure it would have meant the end of our marriage had it not changed by the time it eventually did. So it’s not as bad now, but no way can I get myself programmed for sleep at 10:30 p.m.!

Elizabeth – Glad you stumbled upon me, and that you kindly left a comment. My boys are nearly 10 and 5. My 5 year old is the king of this castle and my 10 year old and I are trying to overthrow his reign.

Desmond – I imagine my husband and I are at that point where we do like to spend time together (I don’t say that with the thought that I mean “ugh, I suppose if you *have* to” kind of way), but when I wrote what I did, I realize that by circumstance and by some degree scheduling, we spend a large chunk of our week apart. He’s never expressed an interest in lubricant shopping with me, though, so maybe I should press that more so he doesn’t wonder why I’m coming home with yet another bottle of that minty flavored one again, or why I have a $7 off coupon for KY Intrigue. Hmm…

Let it be known, however, that I won’t ever reach a point where I say “HEY! Let’s go to Home Depot!” I hate hardware stores, for many a reason, not the least of which is the gross men who would ask me “Hey! Wanna screw!?” when I worked as a cashier at Menard’s one summer while in college. As much as I quite obviously love to talk, I can only roll my eyes at that kind of thing!

XI – Oh, I don’t know that dating is overrated, necessarily. I can see the value in spending time with your spouse, one on one, simply to know that the other person is in synch or to catch up. But perhaps that goes toward your whole thought behind spending time together. When my husband and I spend time together as opposed to “having a date,” the kids are usually very much involved. So are strangers, other couples we know and rooms full of people.Therefore, we don’t necessarily “connect” in all the ways I think both of us wish to when all is said and done.

I don’t know how long you’ve been married or the such, but I can’t see the value in the whole “playing hard to get” thing. But then, in the event I’ve not made it quite terribly clear in my writing here from time to time, I’m not altogether skilled at the art of playing coy. And when the opportunity has arisen for me to let my children spend time with a grandparent so my husband and I can spend time together, I’m literally counting down the hours until the moment arrives sometimes.

Which, as a sidebar, I feel I should clarify that I hope my excitement at getting time alone with my husband doesn’t come across as “YIPPEE! The kids are gone, the kids are gone!”As for the intimacy thing. I’ve read that last sentence a few times, and I feel the need for some clarity. I don’t think I spoil my husband with too much intimacy. I am quite touchy/feely and flirty with him on a pretty constant basis and while he doesn’t necessarily always reciprocate (as is his personality), I don’t think he thinks I’m smothering him with it. I’m intimate with him on a variety of levels. His approach is far different from mine, however, and while I know he is showing me his love and appreciation, I don’t think it’s on such a level that I feel spoiled by it, either. In fact, I’d gladly take more of it.But as I said, I don’t know that I was really reading that last sentence of yours the way it may have been intended, so I’m not sure I’m responding the way I could…

Choppzs – I still sometimes sit at the table when a piece of meat is on the plate and wait for someone to reach over and cut it for me! But by then, everyone else is done eating and I’m sitting there! I think if I didn’t work nights, we’d spend a lot more time together, my husband and I. As it is now, I get home around 11 p.m. and he’s ready to collapse for the day and I’m still wide awake for hours. I’ve been busy moving and talking to people at work about things that don’t revolve around bills, the house, other jobs, kids and worries and, to be quite honest, it rejuvenates me to such a point that I am practically starting a new day over by the time I get home. I’m pretty sure listening to pounding rock music at a volume level of 65 or greater on the ride home doesn’t help matters much, either!

Additionally, I’ve tried that whole question/answer routine with my husband. The curse of my being a talker and his being not so much of one is that he often sits there silent or pondering for three days how to answer things, even simple things, because he fears (I think) that any question (“The sky is blue during the day, right?”) will eventually lead into a debate, which is surprising since I never debate him for this very reason.

CH – Have you ever *actually* seen FTN and I posting at the exact same time? Do our replies ever seem to be scarily alike? Does the fact that I like to inject little double entendres in my post comments seem marginally different from his well thought out and intellectual remarks? (When I call his remarks "intellectual and well thought out" do you laught like I do?) Do you think that is because there is an effort underfoot to throw readers off? Because for all anyone knows, we may very well be one person.

That or we stay up late at night, giggling and plotting and having pillow fights, and then he’s always going on and on about my kick ass rack and I’m like, “Seriously, you have to stop talking about my BOOBS! all the time. People will think you’re obsessed or something.”

And then I whisper to him that I was just kidding about that last part.

Nanette – We’d not expect each other to put out on the first date, would we? Because that would take some of the pressure off! But I will compliment you on your fine knife skills when you reach over and cut my meat!

We (my husband and I, though I imagine you and I would be, too) can be terribly goofy much of the time. I mean I let the man have sex with me even after he quotes the poetry of Beavis (eh, “let”…like I wasn’t going to, anyway)

Taja – Finances are a huge thing for us right now. A huge gaping hole of blah. Not that we spend a lot when we do go out with the intent to have a “date.” So I suppose it’s a good thing the sex is free!

It is a far cry different when you don’t have kids. We used to never be home when we didn’t have them. I’d not give that up, of course, and sadly, I realize they will not always be here, but I want to be in a place with him that when the boys are both gone, we still have something in common to talk about and do when we wake up in the morning and realize that the other is still around. So that’s our mission now. However, I’m taking future episodes of “20/20” out of the options.

As for what I’m doing with Lloyd Dobler? He and I, well “we're gonna watch the movie "Cocoon." I've never actually seen it, but I heard its very good, it makes you happy. It’s about a group of people who go to outer space... hope I didn’t give anything away there.”

Stacie – In the time I’ve been reading you, I’ve immediately gotten the sense that you and your husband bend to meet the interest of the other person, and I think that completely rocks. I love that you each can go on about your own loves and the other plays along. When I read your comment, I was thinking what, exactly, are my husband’s interests outside of work and such (not that work is an “interest” mind you, but you see where I’m going) and I honestly can’t think of any. That’s not to say I have never asked him, because I have. He would tell you he couldn’t think of any, either, if you asked him. If he took up fishing, I’m afraid I couldn’t even feign an interest in that because seriously, I’m not touching a worm and I am definitely not touching a fish.The curse of the person you marry –my husband and I are so very much alike that it’s scary. We even look scarily alike (a fact I never realized until we got our wedding pictures back. Alas, my rack is much hotter). But in situations we’ve been in, I’m going to be the more outgoing one, the one willing to explore different things or to branch out a bit more. I don’t know what else I planned to say here…but I’m sure it was profound. Much as your comment was. You rock, girl!

Desmond – Stacie is wise and wonderful.

I’ve mentioned elsewhere the whole going to bed at the same time thing. When we were early in our marriage, we’d go to bed at the same time and we’d hold hands and fall asleep (everyone say “awwww” now. Just get it out of your system). Then we had kids. Then he worked a god-awful job that put him to bed at 8 p.m. and out of the house at 4 a.m. And now I work nights and totally can’t sleep when I get home. Even if I went up there to read when he went to bed when I got home, I’d be laying there for three or more hours and he’d want the light off and it would be a cycle. So I see the value in it, but it’s not something that works for us at this time.

Jamesmommy - Thanks for stopping through. Love having the new visitors. I do agree with what you reiterated - that having off limits topics only makes them more glaring. I'm not opposed at all to sharing about the boys, but I do have that whole desire of "Yeah! I'm with a grown up!" thing when my husband and I are together alone and I put a lot of hope sometimes on having grown up talks.

"I can see the value in spending time with your spouse, one on one, simply to know that the other person is in synch or to catch up."

See, you got it and didn't even know it! My point was, it doesn't take a date to connect and, in fact, often times a date will inhibit the connection because the thoughts and focus are elsewhere. When we need time alone together I work to clear some time of clutter (and maybe send the girls to bed early) and just make some coffee and ice cream and start talking. About work, which'll force her to change the subject to something she wants to talk about and we're off. No money spent! Oh, and the distractions thing? Twice when we (I) was desperate for chat time I admit it, I disconnected the cable so'ze she couldn't watch TV or surf the net. Cause we needed it. It was all fixed the next day before she called for service.

Been hitched over 21 years no and she still thinks Mum and such were right about plaing hard to get, that if she just gives in and enjoys and reciprocates then the 'magic' will be gone and the courting will be over. It's all a bunch of pure bunk, in our case the opposite is true. She plays soooo hard that often I find it not worth the effort. And so we both lose.

The intimacy thing was a test of the emergency intimacy system. Had it been a real emergency there would have been begging and whining and general carrying on. Seriously, in many relationships I've been in or witnessed there is an intimacy disconnect between the parties, one wanting/needing more and the other not so much. The crypticality of my statement was to try and elicit where it stands in your marriageness. In ours, Queenie is intimacy-phobic. On nearly all levels. Which is why I find myself contriving situations to trick her into a bit of it now and then. But once she's hit intimacy on one level (connecting) she can't be tricked into it on another level (say INTIMACY. You know what I mean) anytime soon.

Sorry to have to have tricked you that way but it was oh so much fun to lead you on.

Kelly - I suppose with one season left, I could suck it up and give it a shot. But I'm afraid I'll get hooked and he'll be all "I told you so!" when I have to go out and hunt up the previous seasons on DVD!

XI - Goodness, my husband knows if he disconnected the internet, the wrath of god would reach from the heavens and he'd regret the day he ever thought of such a thing!

But then I'd give him a kiss when he reconnected it and then whisper a threat akin to "if you ever do that again...." in his ear.

"Goodness, my husband knows if he disconnected the internet, the wrath of god would reach from the heavens and he'd regret the day he ever thought of such a thing!"

which explains why Queenie doesn't know about it. She just knows I jiggled the connector the next AM and all was well. Hey, I was in the same room as honesty!! And kinda close to it. Cut me a break already ...

XI- This type of intrigue will have me keeping an even keener eye on my husband, which will just make him think I'm coming on to him even more, so I suppose in the end, it's a win-win for everyone involved!