I have a question that I think will help me. The short of it is - how long does the "new normal" last? I mean how long does the WS stick to the new rules/restrictions/boundaries set forth from the news of the A. I know this seems obvious - the new normal implies this is FOREVER. Duh. However, here's my basis for the question.

Part of the rules that are currently set for me include no traveling for work, no going out for "girls night out", not spending time with certain friends, not having much time alone where I leave the house, etc. That's fine. I can put up with that as long as I know it's not permanent. However, I'm not willing to give up those freedoms forever.

I told my BH this last night and it understandably caused a lot of problems and a lot of hurt to him. He sees how selfish I'm being.

Part of this is because of IC. I'm learning that a big factor that played into my A is a lack of identity for myself. I still don't have that identity, but especially back then I had 2 small kids, I lost my identity as a person and only knew myself as a mom, a wife and an employee. That's it. Part of me stepping out of my marriage was in defiance of those roles.

Yesterday in IC I started to explore the fact I do want to discover myself and my own, real identity. I told my counselor I'm willing to risk everyone in my life to make that discovery - including my BH.

If you've been reading my posts you'll know I'm not a remorseful wayward yet - I'm working on it but I'm just not truly there yet, no matter how hard I try to be. I'm struggling with whether I want to remain in this marriage. To me if I know that the "new normal" really "should" be a new set of boundaries that I will adhere to for the rest of my life, it leads me to believe I cannot stay in the marriage since I'm not willing to permanently give it all up. However, if once trust is rebuilt (even if it takes 1 or 2 or however many years) I can look forward to the reward being I get to do those things again, I know I can tough it out for the mean time.

Hopefully that all makes sense and thank you again for your time and thoughts.

ETA: some other examples of my current "rules" are that I have to share everything discussed with my IC and basically every conversation I have with another person. This makes me feel like I have no safe place. Even if I were to journal, I'm expected to share that journal with BH (which is why I'm not bothering to journal). Is that really "fair" for him to ask or does it sound like he's asking too much of me?

Gently, if you're just "putting up with it" for now, it doesn't seem like you're really internalizing the reason for the request.
It sounds like you're just biding time until he gets over it so you can go back to your "real" life.

Your identity doesnt necessarily need to include the behaviors from your wayward past.
This would be a good time to start identifying things that you can do/be that are healthy for yourself and your marriage.

Gently, if you're just "putting up with it" for now, it doesn't seem like you're really internalizing the reason for the request.
It sounds like you're just biding time until he gets over it so you can go back to your "real" life.

Really, that's what I'm doing mentally. I feel like the person who I was in the past is the person he wants back. Actually I know that's the case - he's told me so many times.

My problem is with my new "identity" that I think I'm finding, I realize I want MORE freedom than I ever had before and more autonomy than ever before which is the exact opposite of what I'm supposed to be asking for as a WS. That's what makes me think I've got it all wrong and we have no hopes to make it all work.

Why do you need to have girls night out at the bar in order to find yourself? How does traveling for work add to finding yourself? I believe that you learn who you are just fine inside of the guidelines that your BH is asking of you just fine. Will these last forever, probably not. When you have shown yourself to be a safe and trustworthy person he will probably feel that and loosen the reins, but right now you are asking for something that is unreasonable as you are not safe.

Learn who you are inside of these guidelines and you will have no problems when things open up for you, at that point it won't even matter if you have done the work correctly.

Me 46 Him 46 Hardlessons DS 26,24,21
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5856 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

seethelight♀ 43513Member # 43513

Posted: 2:20 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

Part of the rules that are currently set for me include no traveling for work, no going out for "girls night out", not spending time with certain friends, not having much time alone where I leave the house, etc.

That's fine. I can put up with that as long as I know it's not permanent. However, I'm not willing to give up those freedoms forever.

I have set similar boundaries with my wayward as a condition of reconciliation.

My wayward used those freedoms as a cover to cheat. He took advantage of the freedom I gave him.

Even sometimes he would claim to be at home depot for five hours and he was really using it as an opportunity to meet with his OW on a Saturday afternoon.

For me, the new boundaries have to be permanent. There are plenty of married couples who never go out alone or travel for work, and they do just fine.

My IC and MC send there is a trend in society today of married people living as if they are single, with completely separate lives and too much time apart.

She says the psychologists call them the "married singles".

My husband is willing to comply because he truly wants reconciliation.

He realizes he can either be married or be single again, and have all the freedom he wants. He chose marriage.

ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014

StartingFreshNow♀ 44224Member # 44224

Posted: 2:50 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

Why do you need to have girls night out at the bar in order to find yourself? How does traveling for work add to finding yourself? I believe that you learn who you are just fine inside of the guidelines that your BH is asking of you just fine.

Wow, I actually had not even considered that - that those things aren't necessarily me finding myself, but rather some freedom that I WANT, not need.

I have set similar boundaries with my wayward as a condition of reconciliation.

My wayward used those freedoms as a cover to cheat. He took advantage of the freedom I gave him.

That's exactly it - those freedoms were a cover for cheating which is why they are a big NO right now. I can see how/why my BH would need that permanently but I guess I'm just hoping that's not the case. I suppose he's the one I have to ask to know that though - not "a bunch of strangers"....

Also, you're right - I'm looking for more of a "married singles" lifestyle than married. That's something I need to determine what I want and convey that to my BH so he knows what I'm willing to do or not do.

Actually I think you need to determine why you want that inside of being married? If that is the lifestyle you want, then maybe you need to be divorced.

Me 46 Him 46 Hardlessons DS 26,24,21
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5856 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

StartingFreshNow♀ 44224Member # 44224

Posted: 3:07 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

Actually I think you need to determine why you want that inside of being married? If that is the lifestyle you want, then maybe you need to be divorced.

I'm starting to become terrified I do want a D. I'm also terrified I'll regret it if I do and maybe me feeling this way is just a rebellion against all these new "rules" set upon me. I'm not good with giving up control or having rules on me in general.

How about instead of seeing this as rules, you view it as you protecting you, your M and your family. Because that is what you are doing. You are not giving up things. You are working towards something.

Me 46 Him 46 Hardlessons DS 26,24,21
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5856 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

Lovedyoumore♀ 35593Member # 35593

Posted: 3:28 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

Looking at boundaries as rules is a very immature way of thinking. Maybe you should figure out why boundaries set to preserve your marriage make you push back like a teenager towards a parent. Throughout our marriage my H looked at me like a parent because I expected him to act like a mature man with a family. What happened in my H's life to create that dynamic? Because he had already forged an adult emotional bond with his own mother that left me out. The only place to put me was the parent role, which he struggled against because I expected him to act like my husband, not his mother's emotional husband.

Why are you struggling against your H? I would look and see where you emotional bonds are.

Me 50's
WH 50's
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.

Posts: 2081 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart

StartingFreshNow♀ 44224Member # 44224

Posted: 3:28 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

That's a really good reminder for me and a very healthy way to look at it - thank you!

Why are you struggling against your H? I would look and see where you emotional bonds are.

You may have hit a depth here I haven't yet hit with my counselor. We've only had 2 sessions of IC but he did focus for a moment on the fact that I did not closely emotionally bonded to anyone while growing up. I don't have close emotional bonds with people. I have some close friends, yes, but only 2-3 people (including my BH) know the real me. So now my question I'm asking myself is why don't I have a closer emotional bond with anyone, including my BH? What is so scary about it that I won't go fully there and fully give myself? That goes back to being abandoned by my father I think. I don't know for sure but it makes the most logical sense - if someone like a parent can just leave me and "stop loving" me, then anyone could. However, I deep down believe my BH loves me so why wouldn't I be fully emotional and fully myself with him? It doesn't make sense....

It makes perfect sense. And it will be something that you will need to explore fully in IC. There will be a lot there to uncover. I knew that this was the problem and why you were fighting your H so hard on it, and why I suggested you look at it a different way. I had the same problem, so I have to reframe things in my head so they don't look like rules to me. Otherwise, I am looking to break them.

Me 46 Him 46 Hardlessons DS 26,24,21
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5856 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

TheWorstCase♀ 44085Member # 44085

Posted: 3:47 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

I challenge you to make a list. On one side, list the things you are giving up by staying married and trying to reconcile with your husband/kids. On the other side is what you gain by giving up your escapism behaviors.

You seem to still be in the fog of thinking that by escaping from the bounds of your relationship, whether it be with friends or simply by yourself, that you will be happier. I felt that I needed time and space to be happy. But that simply wasn't true. Once I was fully honest and had told several friends and family members, I began to question why I was running and what I was running from.

4 months from d-day, I no longer feel very strongly about being away from home to be "myself". What are you able to say and do while away from home that you cannot say and do at home? Are these things really that important to you? Are they worth sacrificing your marriage and your children's sense of safety/security? The decisions you are making now will affect them forever. Maybe by trying to act like that at home, you will realize that those things aren't as important as they seem right now. Maybe not.

I'm learning that just by being myself at home, I'm pretty comfortable with myself and with my husband. Not always, but I'm still working on being a better person. The times when I am uncomfortable, I am learning that it is because I am not living up to the vision I have for being the best version of me. I rely on cues from my husband, because I think he is a decently good judge of character. I thought I was incapable of saying "I'm sorry" without it sounding cheap and insincere. I was wrong. It just takes practice and time to realize that you can do this.

I don't think you will find lasting contentment with yourself even if you do D. You chose to get married and have children, and need to accept the responsibility you have to your husband and children. No matter how much time passes, this is still your life, and you can still make the choice to examine why you have been coping in such destructive ways. You can still do the right thing here.

I personally don't believe that actively wayward spouses are happy for long at all no matter who they are with. Once we realize that it is our own insecurities that leads us to lie, bend the truth, exaggerate how good we feel in certain situations, seek the attention and comfort of those who we feel are more accepting/intellectually stimulating/creative/passionate/funnier than our spouse/family...and once we acknowledge that we can be better if we try to be compassionate one decision at a time...we are a step closer to committing to a spouse we never fully did to begin with.

Stop lashing out at the rules. Start making rules for yourself. You deserve the opportunity to have standards for your own behavior.

I hope your identity doesn't involve constantly prioritizing others over your family. Perhaps if you prioritize being more present and compassionate, your family life will be shaped into a space where you feel happy and safe.

You're right, I'm still in the fog and I don't know how to get out of it.

I think you're also right that I need to try acting "like myself", whatever that means at home more. I feel like I can't do it there but if I can't, then where can I. My kids are 3 and 5 - they aren't going to judge me. My BH is the one I want to be with so if he really loves me for the person I am, he won't judge me either. The thought of being able to just be myself at home sounds wonderful and scary all at the same time. How sad.

share everything discussed with my IC and basically every conversation I have with another person. This makes me feel like I have no safe place. Even if I were to journal, I'm expected to share that journal with BH

While I agree with the others on all the other boundaries your BH would like you to live with I have to say I disagree with the quoted statement. Even as a wayward I needed somewhere to vent, to cry and to just let it all out. I had to have somewhere where I could work out my thought process solo and really explore me. There were time I would share with xSO and if he asked I would tell him but he did not want to because he wanted me to have a place way for me to heal as well. Others may disagree but I feel disclosure of IC conversations is a bit much, conversations with others on the other hand not so invasive.

Madhatter. Separated.

"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace." Ernie Banks

Posts: 3315 | Registered: Oct 2012

WalkinOnEggshelz♀ 29447Member # 29447

Posted: 7:35 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014

Have you ever given your children consequences when they act out? Do you attempt at demonstrating to them that valuable lessons can be learned from the choices they make? Or is your view that they need to be punished for being naughty?

It seems to me that these new "rules" are being treated by you as a punishment. When in reality they are simony consequences to your behavior. Behavior that is dangerous to the well being if your BH. He is attempting to create an environment that he can feel just a smidgen safer because he is literally living with someone who holds very little regard for his safety.

I understand that it doesn't create a warm fuzzy feeling for you. You aren't being given the affirmation that you desire. He is hurting too much to fill your bottomless bucket of validation so you are trying to escape to find that validation elsewhere. So what happens when you leave? The cycle starts all over because you haven't addressed the real problem. That problem isn't having freedom. That problem is discovering why you are willing to hurt other people for your own gain. What is it within you that has allowed you to have an affair. Why aren't you remorseful?

Perhaps spending more time at home will allow you to take the time to look inside yourself. Become more introspective. Like Tired Girl said, going out with your girlfriends has nothing to do with finding yourself. Pick up some books. Go ahead and journal. You said no one knows you like your BH. So share what you are learning about yourself. He should be a part of that. I'm not saying you should hand the journal over to him, but share the general process. He should have some sort of inkling of who he is married to so he can begin to make decisions about his own life. After all, does he know how many times you have flipped about wanting to R with him? Or is he under the impression you are all in? Or does he know you are struggling?

You can leave the M at anytime. You can't leave you. So why not fix you first?

Me: WS 42
Him: BH 44(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 14 and 11
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 1739 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas

StartingFreshNow♀ 44224Member # 44224

Posted: 8:07 AM, August 21st (Thursday), 2014

Unagie - thanks for that. I thought that part was particularly overboard (hence me mentioning it) so I appreciate your feedback on that.

WOES - he does not know how rocky I am about the R. I hate rocking the boat and that would do just that. That would make his life more volatile and that seems wrong given how much else I've done to him. I'm trying to do the right thing, I just am really uncertain what it is usually. I don't know why I'm not remorseful, I really can't figure that out and it bothers me that I can't. I agree I need to look at the boundaries not as rules - that's a major concept for me and is already proving helpful. I also like your idea of journaling and sharing the general idea with BH but not having to show him the actual journal. I wonder if he'd agree to that.....

You can leave the M at anytime. You can't leave you. So why not fix you first?

Really well said.

Like many people pointed out here, if you think these boundaries are punishment or rules to follow, they are not going to last very long.

If they are internally motivated, they will. Figure out if these things lead you down the path to the person that had an A. I mean that generally. Going out with the girls doesn't mean that you will hooking up with a guy. But does it mean that you are practicing the attention seeking, external validation needing, dangerous behavior that got you into this mess in the first place? I know that it absolutely would for me. You need to answer that for yourself.

I am realizing that becoming the genuine, honest and intentional person that I want to be takes more than just not doing the bad things that I used to do. I have to replace those things with positive thoughts and actions. Every time I do something that I used to do for external validation, I am making it more likely that I'll repeat the whole sequence. Every time I do something right, I move closer to creating good habits. It's really like exercise -- the more you use it, the stronger it gets.

SFN, maybe you need to think of it a different way. Instead of pushing against the things you cannot do, you need to think about living in a way that is healthy for you.