sorry drummerBummer....I can't stand it. If you want to write poetry, write it. If you want to sing and have a voice sing. Mouthing lyrics over a beat box is not music to me. I'm sure it has it's place but not on my stereo equipment, computer, or iPods.

I even use full words when I text people on my phone. And I use the correct words.

Ha! I do the same thing. I like to be understood when I communicate...

I don't really like contemporary rap. I do like old rap, like Run DMC, and intelligent rap (look up MC Lars). I even drummed for a small time rapper at my school once.

I used to really hate hip hop, by then I couldn't help but to appreciate it for how skilled it was in taking control of the music scene and staying put. This is probably due to how much it has effected the culture. I mean, I love jazz, but hip hop has 'won', to say, in being the main music of our time. It is really more of a disease than a genre of music...

I think Madlib is a genius along with Dilla and Doom. Dilla's Donuts album never ceases to become tiring. The Unseen is one of the most interesting albums I've listened to and Madvilliany was just a masterpiece.

One Hip Hop producer who I think is one of the most innovative artists in the music industry today is Flying Lotus - he's not strictly hip hop, but his productions have a strong basis in it and it's one of the most organic and original sounds I've heard to this day.

__________________"You can play a shoestring if your sincere." - John Coltrane

Back on the topic though. I'd say for the last year or so I've completely fallen back into hip hop (Peanut Butter Wolf & Charisma got it kickin'), and have kind of given up on rock music. There are several rock oriented bands that I stay up on and a few a few new ones making a name for themselves, but overall I've been let down the last five years or so. I mean it takes a band 1-3 years to put out an album, all the while you've got rappers who can put out a mixtape of new stuff and bypass all of the nonsense. so just on the basis of productivity, hip hop's got the over rock music in spades. I also feel like it's all been done before. Metal however is thriving, although I'm not too big on metal; the cats can PLAY though.

Rap/Hip Hop is in an interesting position right now. A lot of the major labels are still struggling to get hip to the digital medium (i.e. allowing the word to get out on a project or artist as opposed to suing an artist or producer for sampling something), all the while pushing out garbage artists like the seasons change. The underground is what's good though. Most of those cats have dealt with the industry before and are "noticeably" jaded and in turn going indie. Damon Dash for example, former head of Roc-a-fella has been on point getting like minded artists together to put out some very solid stuff.

Jay-Z specifically, can still put out a chart topper, but album wise I think the cat's doing what most of these rappers do; get a couple of chart topping jams and the rest of the album is a flop. Although the Grey Album was doooooooope!!!

J-Dilla; man one of the greatest and most influential producers. If you don't know about him, chances are the cat that did beat on your favorite track is probably, at the very least, very influenced by him.

Madlib is dope as hell!!!, the cat still records solely analog. He still uses 808s and all of those old samplers and gear. Not to mention a workaholic. Check out Oh No, he's related to Lib in some way.

I really like J Dilla stuff, bullshittin' and whatever you want are my two favourite tracks, I randomly heard them in a club. That experience led me onto finding similar styles of music. For instance, Jurrassic 5, Aphex Twin, Squarepusher,

Like any genre of music, it will speak to some and not others.
If you are under 30 and live in the inner city, you will probably love it.
If you're like me and in my 50's who was raised comfortably in the suburbs, it's annoying.
I need a melody. Rhyming is cool and hard to do, but where's the melody? Not to mention harmony. I like steady grooves, but need something more than that, I need a really great drum part for me to take notice. Plus the lyrics are for a different generation than mine.
Trust me when you're in your 50's your kids will be listening to stuff that doesn't resonate with you in the least, and you too will be seen as closed minded lol.

Like any genre of music, it will speak to some and not others.
If you are under 30 and live in the inner city, you will probably love it.
If you're like me and in my 50's who was raised comfortably in the suburbs, it's annoying.
I need a melody. Rhyming is cool and hard to do, but where's the melody? Not to mention harmony. I like steady grooves, but need something more than that, I need a really great drum part for me to take notice. Plus the lyrics are for a different generation than mine.
Trust me when you're in your 50's your kids will be listening to stuff that doesn't resonate with you in the least, and you too will be seen as closed minded lol.

Yeah that's pretty concise summation. Although, one thing that always bothered me was hearing people talking about how you can't understand what rappers say. And it always reminds of Aerosmith's "Walk This Way" (the original version) released as a single in '77. Now in my opinion, Steven Tyler "singing" on that song is up to par style/rhyme wise as most rappers today. As a matter of fact, if you listen to Run DMC's stuff during their heyday, they had to really step up their skills to match Tyler's ability. I remember seeing an interview with Run DMC talking about the collaboration. And they're sitting there listening to the original version, and they say to each other, "what' all of this fast mumbling going on?". Kind of makes me giggle to myself.

If you're interested, give this a listen. It's from a project that just came out from one of my favorite producers, Ski Beatz. It's got rappers Curren$y and Whosane, along with vocalist Terri Walker. There's a very nice soulful sound to it. You might be surprised.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI4chqAaxNo

I like the true storytellers. I don't reaqlly like Jay z, its all about flash and money, its not about immersion into a poetic moment. The music is always pretty good, but I feel Eyedea would have destroyed him in a battle. Eyedea destroyed everybody though.

__________________
"If I became parapalegic I would try to use my forehead to drum, or my tongue or nose." - Myself

there is plenty of melody , try gangstarr. Premier uses jazz samples. It is fine if you don't like it, and as far as not understanding what they are saying...are you listening to hip hop in chinese? Some may rap fast, and amybe words slip by you, but they are speaking english, no offense.

I am from the suburbs and loved hip hop from the moment I heard Gangstarr and Tribe.

Sometimes there isnt as much melody as say in Miles Davis song, sure.

POS has massive melody on a lot og his tracks. Atmosphere uses a full band when performing. The legendary Roots crew IS A BAND!

But if its not for you, that's fine.

__________________
"If I became parapalegic I would try to use my forehead to drum, or my tongue or nose." - Myself

A disease? Seriously? Billy ray cyrus would be more disease like. Or brittney spears and the product that she is..or any plasticized music

I think what the guy was trying to say is this:

Like a virus spreads through our body taking it down and making it virtually inoperable, modern rap and hip hop has spread across the mainstream conciousness and charts with it's "f**k hos, drink crystal, shoot people" ethos (basically, giving kids the thoughts of a life they don't want and make it easy to obtain with little or no talent or work.) and makes society virtually inoperable with text speak, crap music and no message whatsoever.

@fishbones: What you're thinking of is called Blakroc. In my opinion, it's a GREAT album, the only problem is it's too short. Check out the YT link below. They did "webisodes" of the whole thing it's a bout ten or eleven parts long. But it's worth the full watch.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ZedIXD8Zk

They're supposed to be doing another one as well.

Ultimately and it's been said in this thread (and I'm also generalizing here) if you're black or if you're of any other race and about thirty years old or younger there's a good chance that you like at least some hip hop. But it's one of those generational things. It's the same thing with rock music several generations ago.

I myself have always been one to lean on the sample/chopped and looped side because they're actually using instruments and vocals from recordings. I'm very "pick and choose-y" when it comes to the more electronically generated beats.

I'm a little dumbfounded by the fact that there aren't more fans of hip hop on a drum forum though. Considering the core of it is drums and bass. Also considering all of the discussions on the forum about timing, playing for the music, bass drum techniques, and the like. That's literally the basis of hip hop. It's forces you to play as perfect as possible. I mean I've heard lackluster drums being played in rock music and it doesn't really detract from the overall vibe and feeling of the music. I realize the only one noticing it is me, sitting on my high horse, as I look down my nose at those who are still able to enjoy it. But conversely, if you look at hip hop; if one of those beats is off, maybe the quick double on the bass drum is a little slow or you came in too early on the snare, everyone notices.

Also, I find it a little odd just for example. If you were to take the drum beat to Biggie's "Big Poppa", cats are hating the song. However, if you were to take that same beat and put bass and a guitar, maybe an organ, and a couple of horn players or whatever, all of a sudden it's the jam (which would be the Isley Brothers "Between the Sheets"). I don't know it's just a little disconcerting to me.

I used to think people just didn't quite understand how great Rap/Hip Hop is... The freedom to create sounds and grooves has always appealed to me. My first purchased tape was Ice-T Power, that along with my mixed tape of NWA and I was set.

I can barely stand the genre today... people like Drake are so weak and terrible on the mic. Writing lyrics is different from spitting them. I still love certain stuff but overall its terrible right now, Kinda like a lot of Metal when I was younger... I think everything goes in cycles.

Roots, Questlove... great idea & style
Not a Jay Z fan cuz he'd be nobody if BIG & Pac were alive. However, the real band and rapping over them is awesome.

When I think of drums I think of all the killer music from R&B, Funk, Soul, Disco, etc. I grew up loving metal but the genera's I mentioned got me into drums.

Reading through this thread, I found it interesting that alot of the criticisms about hip-hop and rap run parallel to what people were using to criticize guys like Dizzy, Bird, 'Trane, Miles, Sonny 60, 70, even 80 years ago.

Now I'm not saying that rappers are necessarily as talented as someone like Miles (Quincy just laid a brilliant smack down on a journalist that tried to compare Kanye to him), but the foothold hip hop has in pop culture right now is tied strongly to the role that jazz once played during the 30's through the 60's.

Reading through this thread, I found it interesting that alot of the criticisms about hip-hop and rap run parallel to what people were using to criticize guys like Dizzy, Bird, 'Trane, Miles, Sonny 60, 70, even 80 years ago.

Now I'm not saying that rappers are necessarily as talented as someone like Miles (Quincy just laid a brilliant smack down on a journalist that tried to compare Kanye to him), but the foothold hip hop has in pop culture right now is tied strongly to the role that jazz once played during the 30's through the 60's.

Great post!

I've said it a million times. If Miles Davis, Coltrane and Mingus were to show up right now they would be hip hop artists. I'm totally into it... and if Tony Royster were to miss his plane I would be doing everything possible to be in on his JayZ gig. I've also been scratching for years and kept 2 turntables on 24/7 next to my bed in high school, and made side money in ATL scratching at house parties. Some of those Djs are big time serious.

Although I like the old school guys more than the current batch, I still find it interesting that so many continue to diss this stuff with the same 30 year old insults. Sure you can like ot hate anything you want, but I think it's silly to continue to wear out the illiteracy angle when a lot of these guys are some of the most literate people I know.

Besides, why are their lyrics held up within the context of actual language? Would some of you 60s and 70s guys like to go back and justify some of that inane Baby Baby yeah yeah foolishness you used to pass off as lyricism? And yes, the OP used some abbreviated Twitter speak to feign some imagined hip hop coolness.. but again, can none of you former champions of polyester bellbottoms and hair down to your ankles not recall your own secret groovy talk language? I remember watching Billy Jack and not having a clue as to what most of the characters were saying.

I think it's all about the times we live in. When I'm 60 some kid will be playing my idea of jumbled space music and I'll be screaming how he's certainly no Tupac.

Besides that, I am compelled by hip-hop because it is the only genre of music I have heard besides modern classical music that has the power to be truly frightening. Listen to the Marshall Mathers LP and tell me that 'Amityville' or 'Kim' doesn't move you in any way. Music communicates all emotions, and I've never heard real anger and frustration expressed more directly or sincerely. Listen to Immortal Technique. There is no theatre to it, no face paint or spikes. It's real.

I wish I was more open minded. At the same time, I know what I like. Music has the ability to really resonate with people...or not.

It's really the same kind of debate about what foods you like. There are some foods that you just aren't going to like, no matter what anybody says. Should I feel "less than" for not liking beets? Or should I not be concerned with that and extract as much enjoyment I can from the foods I do like? I'm with the latter. Opinions are good. Dislikes are a part of life. I don't know that the person exists that likes every single style of music ever created. So it's OK to not be moved by something that moves others. I don't feel I should force myself to have to like any music just because it's new and happening. If I don't like it, I can't force myself to like it. If it doesn't appeal to me, I just look elsewhere. Music is extremely personal.

Anybody who faults others for not liking a certain kind of music, saying things like,"how can this not touch you?"....To those people I'd ask, Isn't there any music you don't like too? If you have no dislikes in the world of music, then my hat goes off to you. I'm guessing those people would be a tiny percentage. Every person I know has a range of music they like, and a range they don't like or even hate. I know of no one that likes it all. That's what makes the world go 'round. Gotta embrace that. Viva la difference!

Even though I'm not a hip hop/rap fan, there are some hip hop passages I do like.
Just for some lightness at our gigs, I'm learning the rap from the beginning of the "Fresh Prince" TV show to do at our gigs. I have a feeling it will go over great.

I wish I was more open minded. At the same time, I know what I like. Music has the ability to really resonate with people...or not.

It's really the same kind of debate about what foods you like. There are some foods that you just aren't going to like, no matter what anybody says. Should I feel "less than" for not liking beets? Or should I not be concerned with that and extract as much enjoyment I can from the foods I do like? I'm with the latter. Opinions are good. Dislikes are a part of life. I don't know that the person exists that likes every single style of music ever created. So it's OK to not be moved by something that moves others. I don't feel I should force myself to have to like any music just because it's new and happening. If I don't like it, I can't force myself to like it. If it doesn't appeal to me, I just look elsewhere. Music is extremely personal.

Anybody who faults others for not liking a certain kind of music, saying things like,"how can this not touch you?"....To those people I'd ask, Isn't there any music you don't like too? If you have no dislikes in the world of music, then my hat goes off to you. I'm guessing those people would be a tiny percentage. Every person I know has a range of music they like, and a range they don't like or even hate. I know of no one that likes it all. That's what makes the world go 'round. Gotta embrace that. Viva la difference!

Even though I'm not a hip hop/rap fan, there are some hip hop passages I do like.
Just for some lightness at our gigs, I'm learning the rap from the beginning of the "Fresh Prince" TV show to do at our gigs. I have a feeling it will go over great.

I totally agree. I consider myself pretty open minded but they're are just certain types of music that don't reach me. I do understand though, that it reaches others and for that it has immense value. Sort of like using that same food analogy in reverse, just because someone doesn't like l a certain type of food it doesn't change the fact that it is still food - it's likely still made up of the same core building blocks of other things we do like to eat.

There are plenty "musicians' that easily write-off hip-hop/rap as being "less than" music. The reality is that as long as we devalue other artists' vehicles for expression we're a) not doing our art any good and b) we're taking away from our own ability to communicate and express ourselves to others.

There are plenty "musicians' that easily write-off hip-hop/rap as being "less than" music. The reality is that as long as we devalue other artists' vehicles for expression we're a) not doing our art any good and b) we're taking away from our own ability to communicate and express ourselves to others.

Well said. It is not lesser music. It is the music that is part of the modern culture. The newer generations have a right to "their" music just as I did to "my" music. My Led Zeppelin's are not lesser music compared to my father's Frank Sinatra's.

It's when people put down stuff, just because it doesn't do anything for them, that makes them old, closed off and bitter. I have done this myself in the past. It's easy to do. But I don't want to be "that" guy anymore. Where does that get you? We're all on the same team, right? If you can't participate, coach?

Although I like the old school guys more than the current batch, I still find it interesting that so many continue to diss this stuff with the same 30 year old insults. Sure you can like ot hate anything you want, but I think it's silly to continue to wear out the illiteracy angle when a lot of these guys are some of the most literate people I know.

I have no rouble with the literacy part. I'm sure they can sit down and write or collaborate with others to write lyrics, but when they sing it I can't understand it. Call it ebonics or whatever but they are not pronouncing the words they have written down. There are the hand gestures that are just comical. Left hand out if front with the fingers all curled but the thumb and little finger, or grabbing the crotch. Micorphone in the right hand holding it parallel to the ground. Everyone of them does this same thing. there is no variety. How am I supposed to like something I can't stand to watch or listen to. The original question was dyu all like it or ????? My answer is no.

People will always be like this. No matter how open minded one is, they will always prefer what they grew up with, generally anyway. Or at least be more comfortable with it. Like when Miles Davin approached Bran Marsailes to join his new wave group. Branford said no, because Miles didn't understand funk. He grew up listening to earth wind and fire, james brown and curtis mayfield. There was nothing miles could tell him about funk. People might want to move on. But a 60year old today, no matter how good of a musician, will not be as comfortable with, say, hip hop as a 25 year old one. Its incoded in us! :)

There have been so many times where I'd be on a jazz run, non stop jazz listening. And one day I'd turn on 2pac, and forget about all other music. Its what I have been listening to since I was 8 years old. Thats why guys in old folk homes listen to big band music rather than kanye. Both talented, no matter what type of guy he is, Kanye is one of the few genius' in popular music today.

Every AVERAGE person won't want to be explorative with their music, they'll listen to what they know they like, thats why we remain faithful to the music of our youth. Just what I think anyway