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'Zetigeist' the movie

Posted on: June 22, 2008 - 2:43pm

subzeroiq

Posts: 40

Joined: 2008-02-04

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'Zetigeist' the movie

Hi Folks,

I recently watched 'Zeitgeist' the movie and am looking for comment specifically with respect to Part I (all about the origins of the Jesus mythology). I'm not a historian, but I am interested in finding out more.

I personally felt that the film reached some very paranoid conclusions, though I assumed that that many of the 'facts' presented are genuine, since the associated website has many citations.

I am aware that there is a response to Zeitgeist called 'Zeitgeist Exposed'.

Does anyone have any useful information or views on the validity of facts and claims of either film?

There have been a couple posts regarding this movie. The first part of the movie is done by a psuedoscholar named Acharya S(worth google searching the site too). Rook has debunked most of her claims, and the references to the things Horus is supposed to have said and done are not that reliable. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, eventhough, it seems to be three conspiracy theories that make pretty giant leaps from actual evidence to conclusions.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda

Zeitgeist: the Movie, while entertaining, is nothing but speculative hand-waving. Part I is not good scholarship - it's drawing very loose connections without the film's authors doing proper research. Little tid-bits are correct; the Epic of Gilgamesh, for example, is a good example of pre-Christian mythology that the Bible's authors likely borrwed from.

However, the assertions that Jesus was a figure of pagan myth is absurd. Read Rooks articles, and do some looking into the field yourself. The vast majority of scholars agree that the Bible was mostly based on Greek mythology with a lot of Homeric influence. (EDIT: <---I've just been informed that the highlighted text is not accurate. See? It's just that easy to be mistaken about ancient history texts / scholarship when you're a layman. )

The latter parts of Zeitgeist infuriate me. Carl would be disgusted that words from his speech about the dangers of nuclear tensions were taken out of contect like that in order to lend false credibility to a paranoid delusion.

Quote:

"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

In light of the highlighted text from Kevin, scholars now accept the conclusion that the books of the Bible are largely eponymous, edifying fiction written by scribes who used literary models from all over the ancient Near Eastern and Hellenistic world. This included Homeric models, however you do not see prevalent use of Homeric models until after Alexander the Great conquered the region in the fourth century BCE. Even if much of the Hebrew Bible was composed during the Hellenistic period, there is more evidence of ancient Near Eastern influence on those texts than from Hellenistic influence. You do not start seeing Homeric models being used by Jewish scribes in great extent until the last few centuries in the so-called apocryphal books, and early Christians when composing the Gospel narratives and deuterocanonical works, many which were composed in Greek. In the books which were originally composed in Hebrew is it doubtful that such models would have been helpful because models appear to be chosen based on compatibility with composition and emulation. This is why you see much greater use of Greek models in works written in Greek rather than in Hebrew or Aramaic, which would have more utilized semitic literature.

Thanks for that. I'm only sorry that I didn't really understand a word of it. I do have a book on Roman and Greek mythological history, but found it to be of medicinal value only; a great cure for insomnia! I need entertaining writers to keep my goldfish like attention. Any recommendations?

You mean aside from me? I would start with my blog, because I generally cite my sources. This means that if you find a particular historical/biblical subject entertaining or compelling, the outside reading material is easy to be found (just look towards the bottom of the articles). To give you some idea...my most recent article on ancient Israel has some 44-45 endnotes. You can find my blog here. Don't be afraid to read older articles.

By the by...what parts didn't you understand? I would be more than happy to explain things more clearly.

I haven't seen it, but it is advertised on the right side of this page (in my browser anyway). Has anyone with scholarly skills checked this out?

Well two scholars took part in its creation, including Richard Carrier and Robert Price, both of whom are well worth their weight in history and biblical studies. Richard Carrier is a classical historian, while Robert Price was a fellow of the Jesus Seminar. This movie is much better with its presentation of facts, however it has its flaws as well. It is still a heck of a lot better than Zeitgeist. I would still recommend the library to movies though.

Try "101 Myths of the Bible" by Gary Greenburg. He is, or was president of the Biblical Archaeioligy Society of New York. I can't swear to the accuracy of his research, perhaps Rook can provide some insight there. Another good read would be "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Erhman, a former fundy who still believes in god but not the bible.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jeffersonwww.myspace.com/kenhill5150