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10 August 2017

Sandbox - 10aug17

[Apologies for the delay in providing fresh sand. It is interesting to continue the discussion of the Fat Kid's threats in response to which our Left wants to go through the next cycle of appeasement, so that when another 5-7 years have gone by NK really has the capability to concurrently launch multiple missiles with survivable warheads. The people counseling a diplomatic solution to the current 'crisis' are firing intellectual blanks - they propose nothing new and fully succumb to Einsteinian Stupidity by repeating the same thing while expecting different results. gjr]

Comments

Scenes @4:25 pm.
Oh, oh my. A $2,000 dollar late fee that can be waived? This is too funny. They got themselves a big fish in the inner circle with that one. Well, now we know why the Russians cheered. No more why, why, why? Finally laid that one to rest. :)

AAHHhhhh. Revisionism... Emery style. Wasn't it the LIB Congress that pulled our dogs of war back by the scruff of the neck?( NO! Your NOT going to finish the job!)
Ya. Paul Blame that on Bush. Not the nutless Left who sit to pee.

Nam was too far gone for Nixon to do anything. Besides. All those pissed hippies that somehow believed Commies were not the enemy.( OH Ya... DEMS using the draft to help pull triggers. That was a great idea)

Granada? I was one of those who were sent there.( got the orders and said "What the hell is a Granada? Never heard of it.) So we kicked a banana republic's ass in a few hours. Big deal.
Ike did a fine job. Maybe you would have been happier speaking German today. Come to think of it,, didn't that almost happen? Granny got out just in time. (according to you)

Next time Paul,, work on your timeline, Besides. I already addressed the rest.

OH Paul.. The guy you voted for pardoned a traitor. PVT. Manning.(remember him? uh,, her?,, Naa,,,, It...) Cutting his balls off was good start. Too bad it was on her terms.
Traitors are to be shot , not pardoned. Now the nutless bastard has the brass ones to say "It" changed the face of war"

Screw the nukes! WE have bigger things to worry about.(all of a sudden)
Since AGW grant money is drying up, those "smart guys" need a new money tit to suck on.http://www.sfgate.com/local/science/article/With-8-dangerous-volcanoes-California-has-a-11746331.php
"The volcano threat list was created, Ewert explain, not simply to alert people that the Earth is petulant but too set a foundation for determining which of the country's volcanoes need extensive monitoring.
He said the team used 25 factors to determine a volcano's danger status: What has the volcano done in the past? What's its modus operandi? When does it tend to erupt? What kind of phenomenon does it produce? Lahars (mud slurries of ice, rocks and other debris)? Pyroclastic flows (hot gas, rock and other stuff out of the volcano)? Is it a highly explosive volcano? How active is the volcano right now? Are there seismic swarms? Is it emitting hot volcanic gases? Is the edifice changing its shape "

Walt, you don't think the Sutter Buttes and the Sierra Buttes are likely to blow this week, do ya? That would rock our world. :). Oh my. I feel so uncomfortable, fearful. People will be hurting and they need me to nurture them!
This wood paneling is too masculine, best get rid of it.

The history of appeasement has historically failed.

Exhibit A:

Delusional: "I think there’s some things that [the North Koreans] want from us, and we have to find out whether or not we can work with them on the things that they’re asking for.” —Maxine Waters

I think Trump will wait for the Progs to come crying to him to do something first.
Isn't that how we got dragged into Somalia? Remember the crying Hollywood people on the TV commercials? " We must DO something!" and,, we did. That was the humanitarian's war.
"we all watched with horror as Somali children and their families lay dying by the tens of thousands, dying the slow, agonizing death of starvation, a starvation brought on not only by drought but also by the anarchy that then prevailed in that country."

Bill PLENTY of people forget, or don't even know the buttes was a BIG volcano at one time.
Now down in your neck of the boonies, I leveled off the top of one of those knobs for a house to sit on. I dug up plenty of melted rock seams. Yup, volcanic intrusion even up there.
Now the Guisers over by Clear Lake is another story. Screwing with Mother nature just for geothermal power may come back to bite someday. Humm.. Drill into REAL shallow hot rocks, pump in cold water... What could possibly go wrong?

My, my, my. I see to recall Shit for Brains sending the US Marine Corps into Haiti to be the country's garbage men. Drive those big trash trucks up and down the city streets and pick up trash. US Marines have never been sent to pick up garbage in the shantytowns on foreign soil before in the history of our country, or hopefully ever again. Well, Lord only knows why he made liberals without the ability to pick up after themselves, but that answer is best left to Providence.

The US Marines and fellow jarheads are indeed street sweepers and have a good removal/disposal service, but its a skillset of a different kind. Sounds the same, but different tasks to be accomplished.
Let the Clinton Fountain pick up Haiti's smelly garbage. Shoot, they raked in 13 billion for Haitian relief.

The only Syrian planes that took off from the repaired runway that were cratered by Trump were the ones he had left when the smoke cleared. There is no evidence that Putin is replenishing Assad's aircraft. And all that besides delivering the first strong message to a murderer since Bush2 was in office. Now we've added the even more murderous fat kid to our 'fire and fury' list. Oh, the never ending responsibilities of a white hat hegemon, while everyone else is second guessing with no better solutions to offer, and secretly praying to God that we continue to keep their collective asses safe from the bad guys.

The Sutter Buttes is the only volanco in the valley (the big CA Valley) and is not connected to any known volacano chain. A rugged indivualist, if you prefer. It also may be the smallest mountain range on earth, with the operative word being may. Figure all the rock outcroppings from Spensville to Rough and Ready were just the falling rocks when she blew. You hit that rock just right, and it splits off a big hunk. Very porous. Very volcanic. :)

Oh, the Papa Doc years where when we sent the USMC to do their job for them. I am still pissed at the disrespect Shit for Brains showed the Corps. May be rot in an unmarked grave.

Paul,, you're running out of "But,, b-but but,,,," to grasp on to. I almost feel sorry for ya'.
You still have time to brush up on your Mandarin. China may own Ca. sooner than later.
Trump will just give China, Ca. to cover the FED debt that China holds. HELL. The peanut farmer gave away the Panama Canal. The ground game has been set.

CrowdStrike stands by their initial report [it was the Russin's] (which is why lefties on Twitter are holding onto it like a lifeline), but this new report, says The Washington Examiner, provides reason to doubt their conclusions:

The report says that “forensic investigators, intelligence analysts, system designers, program architects, and computer scientists of long experience and strongly credentialed are now producing evidence disproving the official version of key events last year. Their work is intricate and continues at a kinetic pace as we speak.”

The group found that “there was no hack of the Democratic National Committee’s system on July 5 last year—not by the Russians, not by anyone else.”

The report continues, “Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak—a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system.”

Through all this, Paul has yet to say what he would do if he were in Trump's shoes.
Your great at pissing and moaning about "what if", yet look like an ethiopian who has never scene a candybar when that ball is in your court. Grow a pair Paul. (Let me guess. Let him have all the nukes and missiles he wants. Pay him billions to stay quiet.) How has that worked out so far Paul?(another ? to go unanswered)

Google will now be the gift that keeps on giving a deeper and revealing view into the political correct idiocy of the Left. Google canceled its townhall employees meeting to discuss the latest Damore kerfuffle because it was afraid of their acolytes being exposed in public to questions the answers to which would be more than embarrassing. Local leftwing luminaries are attributing this to Google's fear of "alt-right trolling" for which there is no evidence; but, hey, gotta keep those stories straight, else they'll look behind the curtain.

George. Google is just living by Frisco and Berkeley's rule.
You can say anything you like, just as long a I(we) agree with what you say.
Speak up pal,,don't worry. If I like it, you keep your job.
I guess he didn't like what was on the person's mind.

2) Children starving to death! Do something, anything, but do something now! Blackhawk down. How did that work out, hmmmmmm? Somalia today is the picture of peaceful utopia standing in solidarity with The Higher Good. Rightttttttt.

3). "Distrust of government is manifesting in leadership as cross-cultural apathy. The world watched as Aleppo fell, the screams of children airing through social media and falling on the mostly deaf ears of world leaders.

Even though we have access to a global community, rather than shifting our consciousness to the global well-being, many are choosing fear and living in a world of separatism. The inability to connect and collaborate will only accelerate our world's problems and poverty. Our continual denial that our actions have the potential to have a global impact will only make that impact greater. Our ignorance will not save us." ---- HH 88, Hilary Hodge.

By all means, let's spill blood and treasure because of screaming children. Do something! Do something now!!!!
We lost Syria as well, Hilary, along with Libya. You can hear the Libyan children's screams if you put a seashell to your ear.

Perhaps I missed it while at the Republican fair booth but did the po' ol' fakenewsman have an answer for the left wing mag National coming to the conclusion that the DNC was not hacked? It was an inside job on a flash drive based on the download speeds. DUH! Don't expect any apologies behind the facts of this. ;-)

"A tool of the Muslim Brotherhood (during a stint in Saudi Arabia he says that he grew to admire Islam and the concept of jihad), Brennan refused to take his oath as CIA director on the Bible. His hatred for Michael Flynn and Trump stems in large part from his Islamophilia and his nostalgia for the socialism and the atheism of the Old Soviet Union.

His Russian fable — which was itself a product of his collusion with foreigners from Estonia to England — fed off his disdain for Russia’s turn to Christianity and America’s turn away from Islam."

Hmmmmm. As if we needed more proof that liberalism is a mental disease causing extreme intolerance, irrationality, and hatred coupled with Broken Thinker Sydrome, not to mention severe emotional retardation. What could be worse? A: They also lack a sense of humor. Like giving birth to a Cyclops who is born blind.

Trump quote good grief, this man has no class and is totally delusional.

"“Eddie (Governor of Guam) I have to tell you, you’ve become extremely famous. All over the world, they’re talking about Guam, and they’re talking about you, and I think you’re going to get tourism. I can say this, your tourism, you’re going to go up like tenfold with the expenditure of no money, so I congratulate you.”

As a child and teenager I respected and felt confident with Eisenhower as President. He presided over massive economic expansion, high employment and expansion of Social Security. What kind of example is our Pussy Grabbing Narcissistic President sending out to the youth of America?

Here's a typical Ike quote:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group of course that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few other Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”

The finely honed sensibilities of liberals today have ascended to levels where literally in the same breath they can launch another in the unending critiques of Trump's every word, while reaching back over 60 years to dun a Republican president for negotiating the Korean armistice to insinuate that he still shares blame for today's problems with NK. Such all encompassing breadth is nothing short of remarkable.

That's all you can find to complain about Paul? That's really desperate at this point.
I'm sure you can find three or four words Trump put together to make a sentence in some conversation somewhere that will be the next impeachable offence.

Ever been to Guam? It's a great place to visit when it's not the target of a mad fat kid.
Or is your bitch that Trump used the guy's first name? If you insist on the use of "Mr.",, Then Mr. Emery Cloth it is.(You're just as abrasive.)

Been paying attention to the Left on Left riots? I have to be on the side of the "Southerners". It's the ANTIFA and BLM that are out to erase history. "Tear down Robert E. Lee!!" and anything else "Confederate". Any memorial to the civil war is a target.
So I contend that the radical Left is our own version of ISIS. ISIS has been destroying anything they don't agree with. Crimes against antiquity and history.
Just wait for our county gold miner statues to be targets of the ECO left. It's just a matter of time.

It is it not OK to applaud Eisenhower on some things and condemn him on others? You see things as black and white with no subtleties allowed. As a child I respected Ike's demeanor and maturity something I think young people would have difficulties embracing with our current President.

PaulE 1046am - Please don't confuse 'black and white' with 'clear, complete, and concise' communications. Would love to see some evidence of your contention - you have almost twelve years of my commentary at your disposal.

And how did your logic let you conclude that my 1026am advises against any criticism of Eisenhower?

Damn right Paul, I had family fighting under the stars and bars, as well as the stars and stripes.
So you're in favor of "deleting" history. I'm NOT.
A couple of My Granddads were Confederates. Maybe we should find one or two of your kin "we" didn't agree with, dig them up and throw them in a new hole in a more PC landscape.
I doubt you would take it all that well.

Pau; Emery belongs to the American Talian/ISIS contingent of history erasure? Who would have thought that? And he claime=s to be a Greek? Did the Greeks stop the Persians a couple of times in the BC? Yes, they did. So Since the Greeks beat the Persians I guess using his logic any statues or icons from the era are to be destroyed. Would not want to upset the Turks.

If you'll notice, the unemployment rate trended up throughout Eisenhower's administration. Generally, I'd say that your gut feeling on unemployment rates over time is fooling you. Notice that he began with a historically low point.

(as a side note to everyone else, I don't think that Presidents generally have much to do with the employment rate, but it's always used a proxy for their term. It's similar to the success of harvests in the past I guess).

"You see things as black and white with no subtleties allowed."

lol. That is like the pot calling the shiny white kettle black. I'd suggest that people read back through their own posts before they *ever* accuse that of someone else.

A question for Paul. In regards to Eisenhower, what do you think about Operation Wetback? Good idea? Necessary?

Thanks Scenes, I was wondering which side did the deed. The Fascists. of course.

Paul.. Rallying the troops to blow up the miner monuments around town? We know how the Nevada City types despise us miners, and our forefathers. Hell!! "your side" pulled an ISIS and planted flags at the Miner's theater and foundry, and now claim them as your own.
"Your culture" destroyed MY culture. So much for that "coexistence" crap.

How about we celebrate good ole "Hydrolic Mining days" and wash away a mountain and polute the rivers just to bring back memories. How about we also, symbolically of course, have a ceremony celebrating decimation of the Native population by 90 % in 40 years. Are these the good old days you wish to return to Walt when you say I "destroyed your culture"?

Oh, Paul is just upset today with the news that there was no hacking going on over at the DNC. For all we know, Podesta's emails being hacked was a story made up from by Podesta himself. That would put Punchy a bit more irrational and out of touch with reality than normal.

I cut Punchy some slack for his honestly. Once, in a rare moment of clarity after he got offended at a poster, Punchy explained he does not grasp sarcasm or facetiousness. Nor humor. Ok, I added "nor humor.", he didn't. His exact words were along the lines of "I don't do satire well" or "I have a hard time apprehending satire". My paraphrase, but you catch his drift. It don't come easy, it comes difficult for our off Broad Street denizen.

Poor guy, sarcasm confuses him and facetiousness.....well....he just cannot wrap his head around the whole concept and his facetious meter don't work. Imagine the constant frustration, tension, and turmoil he goes through everyday being unable to keep up and comprehend, interrupt, or recognize such matters. Hard to stay in the flow of things when you have some blockage somewhere. Thus Trump must drive him bonkers. Add to that this the hacking story and his whole narrative and worldview is going down in flames. It would make anyone contraire. Disgruntled, if you prefer.

Oh, life was so good before the pussy grabbing Trump. Punchy wants his life back. I do feel sorry for him. Look in his eyes and you can see all the hurt and pain.
Folks with Trump Derangement Syndrome appear to be getting worse, not better. Who could even imagine that is possible. Learn something new everyday. Come on guys, show a little pity for the poor sap.

The disrespect and know it all attitudes prevalent in today's society reminds me of "...as the days of Noah and Lot," when suddenly...the earth erupts, wipes everything out and eventually a new landscape and creatures began anew. Anyone who has studied ancient history, legends and archeology becomes aware that there's nothing new under the sun. Those who lie, poke fun at, cheat and steal from others may be in for an unfortunate surprise When the earth decides its had enough. Graduation time.http://youtu.be/3krjG5fUtEk

Well why don't we all March up to the Miners Foundry and destroy those old Pelton Wheels and the water cannons known as monitors and just smash then with sledgehammers and destroy all artifacts from the Evil mining Earth destructing history. In fact I know a few Old-Timers that have a monitor in their front yard that we can pay a visit to and maybe burn down their houses and make them pay for the sins of their forefathers. Gets smash the ore carts while we are at it. Then we need to tear down that gawd awful symbol of white colonialism and destruction AKA that horrible Monument to the friggin Donner Party. They ate my people

Going through family archives today and looking at my maternal grandmother's old relatives, most of whom were relics of the 19th Century. Her maiden name was Davis, a cousin of Jefferson. Cousin Jeff and Bobby Lee were on the wrong side of history. Lee was offered the command of the Union army, but chose to go rebel. They were traitors, and worse yet, supported the peculiar institution of slavery.
Now Grandfather Allen came from another branch of American history. He was related to Clan Ross, as in Betsy of flag fame. The last time I saw him in 1978, we had a disagreement over race relations. I suspected he had Klan affiliations, but it wasn't confirmed until my Uncle Ev told me at my mother's funeral in '08.
Well, you can't pick your relatives, but you don't have to carry on their traditions. Mine were traitors and racist scum. I reject everything they stood for. Take those confederate statues and put them in a museum somewhere where you can put them in their true context, not on a pedestal.

Well hells bells. Crabb and my step kids are RELATED! (Ross line)
So you're a "tear it down and bury it" kind of guy.(figures as much)
So hide the history you don't like. Got it. Then your progeny far down the line will be doomed to repeat it. Great thinking.
Now Crabb,, better watch what cartoon you draw today. in 100 or so years, your works just might twist off someone or group. There might be a long line waiting to piss on your grave.
But it's all fine and dandy today.

One of my Grandpappy's was working the mines South of here. On the news of Lincoln's assassination, he slaughtered an ox and threw a party for the mining camp.
That's just the way it was. I don't bury that history I protect it.

You have surpassed yourself with this one Todd. I didn't know it was possible. I mean calling me a traitor that should be tried for treason, desiring pot sellers who sell to minors death in the public square by firing squad and now saying our remarkable cartoonist and social commentary wizard Bob Crabb is an incarnation of ISIS puts you in rare company especially in our little towns where we all know each other. Love to see you run for pubic office again but you never will becaus3 you'll have to face the music on your hate statements.

Calling the Confederates traitors requires one to take a giant step of hubris. The correct name of the 1860-65 conflict is the War for Southern Independence. In a 'civil war' both sides want to become/remain the governing institution for the entire country/territory. The South had no such objective; they merely wanted to secede, and do their own thing with which you may agree or not. But they had no desire to topple the existing US government in Washington.

Un/fortunately it is the victors who write the history books and assign labels to what they deem to have happened. I suppose it takes a mite longer than 150 years to forgive the South for wanting to secede, especially if one faction of the victors today sees a new use for vilifying the Confederacy - namely to create, resurrect, and intensify class schisms so that the country will finally weaken enough to fracture and be ready for assimilation into the brave new global world.

Mums the word from Trump on condemning the white racist groups that instigated today riots because he knows they are part of his "core" supporters. Also no response to David Duke who earlier today said:

"“This represents a turning point for the people of this country,” said Duke in video uploaded to Twitter by Indianapolis Star photojournalist Mykal McEldowney. “We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump. Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do.”

It figures... Punch-E can't use the Russiagate thing or polls today... so instead talk about David Duke, publicity whore, who can always be counted on saying something that is quotable by the left that really has no bearing on national politics. Nothing Duke has ever said has ever mattered except to lazy and/or dishonest Democratic Party leaning journalists and the folks who look to them for talking points.

Regarding the collapsed Russia-did-it narrative... where is Michael P. Anderson? IIRC it wasn't too long after the election he was claiming anyone who wasn't following the DNC lead to delegitimize the election was virtually a traitor

Thanks for the revealing responses. I'm sure Mussolini was a nice guy and a patriot, but they don't really justify his politics with statuary. Same with Hitler, Stalin (although he's making a comeback), Saddam, and other heroes of lost causes.
You guys can rationalize anything.

Seriously, I wonder when that became part of political trash talk. I'll have to look back and see if conservative groups did a ten second countdown and then started bashing Obama for not condemning the occasional beat-down of bystanders by left wing radicals. They certainly can be as stupid as Green Libertarians, so it's quite possible.

I have to admit that the birth of a semi-radical right is an interesting new concept. The Nazis have always been with us, but since they basically were an ethnically-oriented clump of socialists (after all, it isn't like Hitler was against national healthcare) and were always a tiny fringe, they really aren't interesting. To see a group of younger people who are as strong in their belief system as the last few decades worth of college students and Berkeley Communists (and Anarchists...an odd marriage, it's as if they don't know what it all means) is a fresh idea and makes for breathless news cycles.

It does have to feel odd for Green Libertarian marchers to run into a matching passion (and higher testosterone level) for politics.

I'm not sure if there's some great cycle at work here, or it's simply that the heartland of the country has just had enough. Kind of a dramatic way to reach homeostasis.

Polls are there Gregory Down 27 in the IPP, the most accurate poll in the last election. Lots going on in the Russia probe. Just ask Trumps former campaign chief Paul Manifort who had unexpected guests for breakfast a couple of weeks ago.

ISIS tore down statues of those they disagree with and I see no difference with Crabb desiring the same thing. The ISIS wannabees could have placed a plaque on the statues extolling the crumminess of the person they disliked. But no, they have to remove from history the things they don't like. Chicken shits all. What if the other ISIS wannabees hated comics and decided to kll the cartoonists? Oh, that right, they did. So it is a very slippery slope to to start the after Caeser destruction of Caesar statues.

Sort of like YOUTUBE taking down the "free speech" rants on free speech.

Here we go. How dare those people exercise their 1ST amendment rights. You may not a word they say, but this still is America. They have every right to say what's on their mind.
Ever think that far Paul?
Then there is the ANTIFA.. Who are closer to the real fascists than anyone else these days.
Our LIBS need to take a new look at the definition of what a fascist really is. Then come back and try and bitch.
Ya.. You guys with blogs, who "moderate" what is said. Little fascist much?

Thanks for keeping tract of things. I sometimes forget my erudite and accurate statements. You seem to lack a noggin when it comes to why those things were said. But that is what you supposed "news" people do. Parse everything to your own bias. ISIS dstros religious monuments they disagree with. Now do you get it you dolt? An yes drug pushers to kids should be executed in the most public way. Maybe a firing squad? Hanging? They spread their poisin and you support it. Your are a disgusting human being.

Running for office is not something I desire. I beat your candidates and that isenough for me. And there is a brass plaue with my name on it at the Rood Center. Now you can be like ISIS too and go destroy it. What a guy.

The statue fuss is a funny one. During Reconstruction, it doesn't seem to have caused a lot of problems, and that was during and just after an outright occupation of defeated rival. If you'd bother to read any contemporary accounts, you'll notice that these statue and monument unveilings were usually presented as a kind of reconciliation ceremony with important participants from both sides showing up. It isn't like these big pieces of civic art were snuck in during the dead of night by men in conical hats, as much as you might wish this were so. About as close as you'll get to a sneaky backstory on one of the bigger lumps of metal would be Cromwell.

Maybe...just maybe, this is all based on modern politics and belief systems and really has very little to do with the US Civil War.

To our new readers Todd Juvinall is a former NC Supervisor 20 or 30 years ago who lost at every attempt at public office after that and also became a failed developer and is now a bitter recluse emerging only to dangle his worm occasionally at Friar Tucks and sometimes appear at Republican events where he can talk about his glory days. Sad , A local legend for sure.

RL, Mussolini was so loved by his people they hung him for show after they caught him and had him shot.

Looking up some history, even Jefferson Davis was never charged with treason (or any other crime) after being held for two years. After the Confederates surrendered, the order of the day was not retribution but mostly reconciliation.

Washington and Lee College got it's name from Robert E. Lee, who was President of Washington College for five years until his death.

In short, Earl, Mussolini was a hated dictator, as were Hitler, Saddam, not to mention Pol Pot and a few other mass murderers. Stalin had his day ended by Khrushchev's telling the country what their recent history was. Lumping the Confederates with those folk really is revisionist history that is lousy history even for RL Crabb.

Now I don't have any family who were Confederates as far as I know, I do have a Union army belt from a distant relative who ran off to join a Missouri regiment, lying about his age.

As usual, Todd reads what he'd like to believe into my post. I never, ever said the confederate monuments should be destroyed, only put into museums where their history could be put into context. And isn't it nice that Walt is proud that his ancestor celebrated the murder of the president. I acknowledge mine, but not so approvingly.

This whole tear down the statues of Civil War generals and removing names on Ivy Leaugue buildings from founding benefactors because they owned slaves two hundred years and fifty ago is what is happening now in real time. Latest fad. Sanitize and demonize. Rewrite it, make it more multicultural. We were founded on Islamic principles, right?
Nothing is taken in context of the times, how it was in the 15th and 16th Centuries and even in the 19th and 20th Centuries, referencing Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Hilter, the KKK's foundling by the Democrat Party, the Japense rape of Nanjing during the second Sino-Japanese War., Jim Crow laws, pick your outrage.
It's our history and it is what is was. History. US history and World history. Just history. Past history. It's not like anybody is making an amusement park dedicated to General Stonewall Jackson nor Hernan Cortes. Slaves? You mean the Mayan Empire or the Incas? History. Just history. Johnnie Reb was a traitor? Perhaps. It is called the War Between the States. Men fought valiantly on both sides, and there were many fallen heros. You can't take that away from them.....or can you.

Guess no more Civil War reenactments ever to be taken place again. Too bad. I always was intrigued by the Civil War surgeon's tents and primative tools used for amputating limbs and legs. Guess that is where the term 'Old Sawbones' came from. World War One (The Great War to end all wars) had to given us the term 'meat wagon' judging by the photos in museums. Guess it's time we take Thomas Jefferson off the five spot.

Paul Emery Aug 12 1:31pm...Yes Paul, the King James Version is my favorite Bible because it contains the Hebrew and Greek translations and cross references. It's kind of like an ancient computer that requires concentration. The process is similar to meditation turning on the light. A living book where the more you experience the greater your understanding.
Can you imagine what would happen "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land?" (2 Chronicles 7:14).
Reminds me of General George Washington's alleged vision at Valley Forge. Some say that it is substantiated by the fact that a copy of the account is in the Library of Congress, and others claim otherwise using opposing dates. Snopes says it's false, but many people don't always agree with their politics. How easy it is to change anything you want.http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/vision.html
Simple pschycology for the betterment of society, but today's political activists like Yale’s insist that all of history must be made to conform with their current political attitude. I suppose the vandals forgot that if we forget history's lessons, we're bound to repeat it's mistakes.http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450407/yale-erases-history-campus-statue-covered-appeasing-activist-mob

It is what it is RL,, It's real easy to pass judgment on what happened 100+ years ago.
Look at the bright side RL,, Gramps didn't kill the U.S. marshal that was sent to "collect" him for that party. He didn't go to the pokey either.

There is plenty of civil war history from right here. Should that be buried even deeper because you don't like it?

It appears that no one here knows how the VA violence started. Our leftwing readers talk as if the 'Unite the Right' people showed up with the means and intent to attack the counter demonstrators, and did so with gay abandon when the Left arrived. I haven't seen or heard of an account of how the violence started - has anyone?

Since the news was broadcast, President Trump has condemned "the egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence" in repeated statements, none of which are sufficient for the Left (examples above) who read everything except the President's intent into his statements. Witness the dismissive sniff of Bob Crabb's 332pm.

In such street confrontations one side shows up first and demonstrates peacefully until the opposition shows up, then the trouble starts. Is it proper to then argue without further evidence that the first group started the violence? We all recall in these cases, it takes two to tango.

"only put into museums where their history could be put into context. "

Their 'context' is that they were erected as a point of pride and with the full knowledge of everyone concerned. It seems to me that the context is as much putting up the statue as the statue itself.

The nice part about their real context is that they are already there. Sweet. No money need be spent, just leave them alone.

Please, just admit it. The whole point of this statue business is a bit of agitprop against white Southerners. They'll get stuck in a building filled with pictures of slave shacks and underground railroad dioramas. It's all just a tiny skirmish in the ongoing cold civil war.

My understanding is the people of the south that did not want to REL statue demolished organized a protest. How they then got labeled "White Supremacist" has escaped me so far. Probably the media and the left. But I could be wrong. And having been to Berkeley and watched that "Antifa" start the violence, my guess it was they who started it in Virginee.

RL, I read your post just how you intended it. You now want to rewrite what you wrote to mean something else. The removal of artifacts into a museum from their historical place is an ISIS move, plain and simple. Except ISIS had no museum. I saw where ISIS destroyed all the monuments, headstones, in a huge cemetary in Mosul I think it was. Acres of headstones demolished. My guess is you are in favor of moving all those confederate headstones into your museum as well then?

The theft of history continues today.
In one of those monuments that's been taken down, a time capsule was found. The group that originally placed it still exists today. Daughters of the South, or something like that.
They wanted to be the ones to open it. It was "theirs" (so to speak) But No. The "city" took control. (probably the same a-holes that voted to take the monument down) So that group got their history swiped.

Guess it was all too predicable. Punch -E running over here demanding we all join in and condemn David Duke or White Supremacists or the rally in NC. Strike that. Maybe because we did not make that rally the focal point of every comment is what got his goat. Like the time he was screaming about the crickets here because the county has going to craft an ordinance about large private parties with bands that get too noisy for the neighbors' comfort level. Where is the outrage??

When I read about the upcoming rally this morning, I said "this cannot possibly end well." Heck, it was Boardman and a few others running over here the morning after the election calling us David Dukers. Then they cry about painting all Islamics or Snowflakes or Dems with a broad brush. So, being called a David Duker again is nothing new....not by a long shot.

At least Punchy came close to expressing outrage over ISIS today. Close, but something that he remained silent on for months and months. Maybe someday he will express outrage on My Gal's private loosely goosey e-mail server in the basement conducting the lion's share of State business on and deleted 33,000 e-mails that were subpoenaed by Congress. Closest we will ever hear is "I did not vote for her." But why? Because she is from a major party, on which you vowed never to vote for again after Obama let him down? No matter. Non of my beeswax.

People just do not do what I want them to and I don't do what they want me to. And that is a great thing.

Once knew a guy who had a cat. He loved that cat like nothing I have ever seen. One day the cat died and he was devasted. He shared the sorrowful news to his roommate. The roommate just replied something like that is so sad and went about his business. The cat owner went ballistic and tossed his roommate out and railed about him for a week straight. I asked the man why he evicted his roommate (playing dumb) and the answer was classic. "Because he did not show enough grief and sorrow over the passing of his beloved cat." I figured there is nothing to loose, so I replied that it is an unreasonable request to demand others feel the way you do about your cat. He never spoke to me again.

It is an unreasonable request (or expectation) for others to feel exactly the way I do about Benghazi or demand that others express the same outrage over something another is outraged about. Guess we did not express a mirror image of what Paul was feeling at the time. Maybe some here were outraged, but did not express it in the right manner or not outraged at all. Each person's feelings are their own and it's a fool's errand to argue with feelings.
If there was ever a time for Punch-E to say his "I take your silence as agreeing with me", today would have been the perfect time. Ah, heck. He woke up on the Trump rag....again. Slams what Trump said about something last night first thing out of the gate this morning AND then came back to slam (erroneously) what Trump did not say today. Or said it too late or we/he said it the wrong way or....or...or did not express enough of the right kind of justifiable anger and incredulous moral outrage the way he wanted us to. Darn, folks just don't do what he wants them to do in the exact way he demands.

lol. You win the internet for the evening. Maybe GEOTUS can tweet something about the cat, it should smooth everything over with Paul.

re: ToddJ@5:43PM

"And having been to Berkeley and watched that "Antifa" start the violence, my guess it was they who started it in Virginee."

Not a bad bet, mostly because the activist Left has such an incredibly deep bench in street violence. They have both the organizational chops and the manpower to pull off those sorts of things. Up until now, I'd say that the more righteous Right consisted of people who are not only a bit too old for general friskiness in protests, but who have too much to lose to be particularly political. You can see the world changing as we speak.

I guess you would have to have lived in the south to appreciate the legacy of slavery. I did, for three years, and I saw things I could never imagine here in the West. The current trend is not so much political correctness as history catching up to reality. Poor little ol' Scarlett lost her Tara because of her wrong-headed politics, and if she rebuilt, she did it because she was lily white and had cheap negro labor enforced by Nathan Forest and the Klan. Even when I was there, ten years after desegregation, blacks had to be careful where they went and what they said. Can you blame them for not wanting to "honor" those who fought to keep their grandparents in chains?
What is the difference between a dictator and a slave owner?
As for the blow up in Virginia, both sides went there looking for a fight. Stoke the fire. Hate makes good kindling.

Another way to look at this riot, so leave the monument out of this. This is Just a LIB on Progressive family squabble. Wait till Thanksgiving. Then watch the show.
Who are the participants? KKK,(Ol' Granddad) White supremacists( Socialist Cousins from Germany) Black lives matter,( kin from the city) ANTIFA.(Pissed because they are still at the kiddy table.)
So no blaming Trump and the Right for this. It's all Leftists, and leftist by-products.

"Can you blame them for not wanting to "honor" those who fought to keep their grandparents in chains?"

You have to be pretty old to have grandparents that were slaves.

In any case, I get it. It's not really about history, it isn't about 'context', it isn't about art, it's about pleasing the current feelings of a politically important group. I don't think that that's an unimportant thing, just be honest about it.

Maybe we could get the Israelis to tear down all the Roman constructions in their country, you could knock down gravestones from any invading army, just imagine the cultural cleanup you could do in the ex-British Empire. Heck, England itself is probably full of monuments that tick off the locals that have been imported from elsewhere. It's all just part of a new way of thinking.

Funny thing how others feel about such statues. I just returned from a couple of weeks driving around Estonia. There they still have to retain statues and memorials to the Red Army that in 1944 "liberated" Estonia and returned it to five decades of workers' paradise which also included a number of mass executions and deportations about which the west has been silent. The statues and memorials are still there, stark reminders of the ongoing cost of peace - 300,000 Russians in a country of 1.3M can cause quite dust-up if you insult them, especially when their big brother is just across the border. And then there were the centuries of Russian domination of Estonians as serfs before that. I don't have to ask how my distant relatives felt in a bygone era; members of our family were killed and we personally were hunted like game by the communist partisans. Nevertheless, I do appreciate an intellectual discussion about repression and all that.

"I guess you would have to have lived in the south to appreciate the legacy of slavery. I did, for three years, and I saw things I could never imagine here in the West."
So - more wrongs to right the old wrongs? How long does this go on, Bob? Eye for an eye?
How many generations down the road have to 'pay' for something they had nothing to do with?
Why do only some people get to go after anyone who has the same skin color as the person who decades ago may have harmed some one in their family.
Living in the South for three years doesn't qualify you to start your virtue signalling. If this stupidity keeps up, it will be mostly black and brown folks that will be harmed. If Crabb really cared, he'd go back to the deep south and spout his crap there. Go on, Bob - egg them on. More anger, more violence - that's the way to fix things. While you sit there safely tucked away in Nevada County.

Three years is a wisp. I have friends that have lived there all their lives. Most of the big riots of the 60's were in the North and middle and Watts! Segregation was not only a southern thing. But if one does not know history then RL is you eyes on the ground historian. It is not about "honoring" anyone. Each person seeing the statue can decide if they like it or not. The issue is historical fact. TRL represents America's ISIS as all those bad visuals have to be cleansed so a person won't have apoplexy when they see it. I reacll the left putting a crucifix is someone's piss and calling it art and all of the Christians had to bear that. My guess is RL thought it was great. Everyone has a bias. But to ISIS our country and deny people the rigt to decide if something is good or bad is not right in a free society.

The saying "I never owned slaves and you never picked cotton" comes to mind.

Whenever a group of skinheads or some KKK group has its Infrequent little march or just as irregular gathering in some park, it's always a flash point and usually the counter democtrators outnumber the Klan 10 to 1. That says a lot about our country.
Everyone goes looking for a fight. This one was unusual because it was bigger and there was a death on the streets and two more from the sky. Usually a one day event, like it was today. Always inflames passions, which is exactly the point. No rioting in the streets for a week or so, no burning up the hood, no trashing the business district. Passes just as fast as it comes.

Heck, if you need more of that good old Southerner bashing, CA State employees are already barred from traveling to NC on company time because of the transgender thang. If you were born female, use the ladies room. If you were born with a stem on the apple, use the men's room. Boycott! Boycott the whole darn state. Most of us in the peanut gallery don't make Charolette their vacation destination anyway.

With that said, the above was just filler. From segregated dorms (black only) making a come back due to popular demand, to barring whites from campus identity groups, to across the Lefty political spectrum, it is not a one day event. Welcome to the world of Idenity Politics. Tribalism is here. Assimilation is out. Whatever bound us together as Americans, whatever glue that held us together in solidarity, is under assault. The words 'community' and 'citizens' used to be our common bond that made us all 'Americans' . Not no more. We are in deep doo-doo if we continue down this road where one cannot get pass one's tribal Identity, one's gender identify, one's sexual identify, one's ethnic Idenity. Those are just smaller parts of who I am, not who I am.

If one's tribal Idenity is seen as the whole as opposed to just one of the parts of the whole, then there will be no more 'us'. It will be 'us' vs 'them' into perpetuity, no we. No Americans.

"300,000 Russians in a country of 1.3M can cause quite dust-up if you insult them"

Perhaps the borders are in the wrong place. Are there differences, by region, in what languages are primarily used?

Personally, I'm rather in favor of monuments that honor individuals rather than brutalist lumps of stone oriented towards a principle. Wait long enough, and no one cares about the tribal angle to all of this, although Eastern Europeans seem to have abnormally long memories.

A more general question. Did the Soviets tear down nationalist monuments during that last expansion of the Russian state?

When I was done musing about people who had grandparents born in the late 1850's, I was considering museums.

For the sake of argument, let's say we gather up all the heroic CSA monuments, replace them with 100's of Martin Luther King statues (or the like) and decide what to do with them.

The local Sons of the War of Northern Aggression, or whatever it's called, would likely be happy to build a nice war museum, complete with plenty o' artifacts, these statues, cannons, and whatnot. Some beautiful building would be built or bought.

Fast forward two weeks, the protests start. Not allowed. It's the hate museum. Mr. RL could wave his reedy fist at the symbol of southern evilry.

Scotty, I have to laugh at someone who has the gall to lecture me on criticizing the south from California while you take potshots from Idaho.
And George, your perception of what Estonians endure is a perfect living example of what I am talking about. Maybe black people's grandparents don't remember slavery, but they sure as hell remember George Wallace and Strom Thurmond, the hypocrite who hid his own black daughter to keep his racist cred in order. They surely recall Lester Maddox's ax handles, which he sold as souvenirs at a little shop in Atlanta while he kept his day job as Lt. Governor.
What responsibility do we have as the inheritors of past wrongs? To not perpetuate them into the future. If they take Cousin Jeff's statue and put it into a museum along with the others who sought to keep a race they considered animals in bondage, fine by me.

Simple, Bob - you are safe and sound in one of the whitest counties in California while you encourage trouble in another part of the country that will only lead to more violence that will only lead to more injury and death for many, including blacks.
I currently see now in our entire country ugly acts of violent racist hatred. Stop blaming this on the south. Washington owned slaves - do we tear down the Washington monument in DC? I asked you several pertinent questions which we note you cannot answer.
Doesn't matter where I live - I'm critisizing you and the other left wing trouble makers all over the country that engage in virtue signalling, and using the legacy of past wrongs by folks long dead to 'get at' folks you don't like politically. How does any of this materially help the poor black children growing up in the south (or any where else) today?