Conservative To The Bone

This was sent to me by a friend on Twitter. It is directed at comments that were exchanged on 08.09.2010. Very good read.

The current controversy over the burning of the Koran seems to have everyone (myself included) in a tizzy, with firm lines being drawn between conservatives. I really am infuriated because of the naivety of some good people-it’s not that I really care if a Koran gets burned (although I would hold the match) but because of the excuses given by some conservatives, some trolls & some outright liberals for not doing it. The liberals I have talked to straight out say, oh they will be mean to us-ah pardon me what world you in, we have had multiple terrorist attacks on Americans all over the world-do you really believe more sucking up will make them like us? Then you have the Troll bunch (here I am so tempted to name names but will refrain but they know who they are) they claim that 1-it will put American military men in danger-that’s BS they are in danger right now-& if you don’t get that you’re a fool, 2nd if anyone is well equipped to defend themselves it is an American soldier (what hurts is the insane ROE they are operating under). I am from a military family so don’t even go there. The other excuse I heard from them sounded just like Obama. In fact the words were identical-“we are better than that.” I have some news for you-that attitude will cost you everything. Look around, how the daylights do you think we got in this mess? Are you really naive enough to think it started with Obama? Over the last 40 or so years (probably longer but let’s focus on things that there are still people who remember the truth) look at our country? American Christian tolerance caused it, oh yes blame the liberals, blame Obama, blame everyone but truth is, we American Christians (this includes me) are the ones to blame. We knew right from wrong and choose tolerance, rather than action. I personally remember starting each day of elementary school with a prayer, and the pledge-these both left without a whimper by Junior High. We didn’t “lower” ourselves to their level, we didn’t fight on their terms, we were better than that. Today we are still using that excuse. Pardon me, burn our books and we will get mad at you, hell y’all these people want to kill us. We, Americans have allowed Muslims to become the schoolyard bully ( please don’t give me religious tolerance I’ll get to that). I learned a long time ago-kindness, courtesy & consideration gets you nowhere with a bully (“oh, please don’t take my lunch money”). All a bully understands is picking themselves up after your stomped the hell out of them. We have given an inch and they have taken a mile-it isn’t just Muslims you can translate that to illegal aliens, and our very own government, by our own unwillingness to “cowboy up” (as my kids would put it) we have created monsters.

Another excuse I heard today from a twitter friend was they were against it because they were a Christian, my first thought was, I beg your pardon? But in 140 characters that loses something. I don’t claim to be an expert theologian but I was raised in a southern Baptist church in the south. I was taught about the love & forgiveness of our Great God, but I was also taught about the wrath of God and fire and brimstone, we had an old preacher who did revivals that could literally conjure up vivid images of hell in your mind. To be blunt about it if you think for a minute God would tolerate Muslims, or that He wants you to be tolerant you worship a way different God than I do. My God is jealous, possessive, and is pretty blunt in his feelings about worshiping false gods-& nowhere in my Bible does it say accept Allah. Mine says put NO other God before me. When we surrender, we are doing just that. Do you really believe in your heart that the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac wants to be replaced by Islam? Do you really think he wants you to be accepting and agreeable? Paul talks to the men of the early churches and he warns of these very things. I had this one TROLL (gawd I want to call this fool by name) tell me I was a Muslim because I told him straight out I believed in an eye for an eye. We are fighting a war – a spiritual one, and everyone better understand that. I do not for one minute believe that God wants his people to “tolerate” everything including false gods. Another argument our Constitution protects their freedoms in this country-no it doesn’t, God’s laws trump man’s laws any day of the week, unless you’re a fool.

I had another conservative friend say yeah, we won (when that so-called preacher canceled the burning). What did we win???? Let’s see we were bullied, intimidated, surrendered, and we won? I love you hon, but your idea of winning is a lot different than mine. Oh, we showed the word that Muslims were intolerant and violent, excuse me only a blind, deaf, stupid fool would not already know this, so that is pretty redundant.

Israel has survived by being tough, they bow to no one, and I don’t mean literally. Everyone has always been somewhat hesitant to mess with Israel, because Israel has always had the attitude you kill one Israeli they will kill 2 of yours. As I said at the beginning, I don’t particularly want to burn books, but I am tired of being pushed. If you burn my Bible I’ll burn your Koran, and so on. My line in the sand is drawn, I ask no quarter and expect none, but I refuse to back up one more inch, and I do not believe God wants me to-I figure he is as fed up with the false religion crap as I am. If we want to stop the destruction of our country we have to be willing to win…..I don’t know where you folks come from, but back home there is no such thing as a fair fight, you fight to win, period (it might be a Texas thing), and none of this “we are better than that”.

The Roman Empire considered Jesus Christ to be a radical in His short public life. His mission was different than ours. His Being flogged is not our paradigm. Giving witness to the graciousness and wonders of God in a free nation is a freedom hard won in America and entrusted to us in Mt.18:10-14 & Mt.28:16ff Handing it over to fear-mongers, be they politicians or violent groups,is not only unconscionable
but cowardice in faith and weakness in patriotism.

Could argue Bible verses all day, but the simple fact is that God has no tolerance of other religions & gods. Period. How long do you believe without God America will be a free nation? The 10 Commandments are as valid today as they were when handed down to Moses. Thou shall put NO other God before me. Period, end of story. God destroyed nations for tolerance of worship of false Gods-that might be handy to keep in mind.

How in the name of christ is the war on terror a spiritual war? it’s a war on terrorism. If it was a spiritual war then nearly the entirety of europe would be at war with the vast majority of the middle east and a lot of northern india – this is simply not the case. The only reason the muslim world is up in arms about ignorant americans publicly destroying their most sacred artifact is because you are generalising the worlds second largest religion as ‘the enemy’, and using their spiritual beliefs as a way of discriminating and intimidation.

Also your God sounds a lot different than my God (I’m a catholic). To be honest, your god sounds like an asshole and I can’t see for a second him being even a similar figure to the one I picture, the all understanding; the all forgiving. You talk of a hate-fueled god who’s only interest is making sure that people worship him and no others. You speak of the ten commandments and then speak of ‘eye for an eye’; you’ve totally missed the point of the bible! You’ve taken hate from a book of good and spewed rancid nonsense in this blog of yours. I hope you find a more positive figure in your beliefs, as worshipping a jealous and possessive god can only lead to paranoia and greed (Your american right?).

I didn’t write this post. I posted it for a friend, but suffer me to respond to this Irishman .

Cal, it is a spiritual war in the sense that Muslims will kill you if you don’t believe the way they demand you believe. The Muslim world is up in arms because of their beliefs, and they will be up in arms as long as they exist. They are the children of Ishmael, and they are “wildmen”. I suggest you open your bible and read Genesis, without looking I believe it’s the 10th chapter. The only God, being the God of Abraham is not an asshole. Some people are perhaps, but not God. I really don’t care what you picture God to be. That is only relevant to you and no one else. You stated my friend “talked of a hate fueled God who’s only interest is making people worship him and no others”. If you replaced the word God with Islam in that sentence you would be totally correct. You need to re-read the ten commandments. God is a jealous God, and He said have no others gods before me. Islam isn’t about God. It’s about a 7th century wildman who advocated, and committed the worst atrocities one can imagine, including raping, brutalizing, and killing anything that breathed, that includes men,women, children, and animals. God is forgiving, but you must repent, and ask for forgiveness. I would think that would be rather difficult for a suicide bomber to do. Yes, I am American, and I am very proud of that. I am also of Irish, and Cherokee decent. Given your warped view of this country perhaps I can now better understand why Ireland was at war with it’s self for so long, and if I remember correctly we awful Americans brokered much of the peace you now enjoy. You might want to consider moving to San Fransisco California-you would feel very much at home.

My god, patriot, A) Ireland were not involved in world war 1 or 2, so that peace you somehow brokered; which war would that be? The war in northern Ireland by chance? I come from the republic of Ireland, which have not been involved in a war since England gained control of Ireland hundreds of years ago – but then again knowing anything about a foreign country is a huge ask for any american, let alone someone with such a black and white view of the world. B) I know plenty of muslims, europe is a nice melting pot for culture too; they do not demand that I (or any of their non-practicing muslims brethren) believe what they want. They are not up in arms, they do not worship a raping, mass-killing devil like you’ve described. They worship a god, a different interpretation to what I’m sure we both believe (however different the figure that we believe in is).

I find it hilarious that you consider the world up in arms about the muslim world. Europe, Africa and Asia have had historical wars with the muslim world over a couple of thousand years; in recent centuries these tensions have died down. The only reason the world is even paying attention to the current controversy is because the enemies your country are making in the middle east have ruptured the good work of diplomacy that have made the last few centuries peaceful between two massive religions (and 3 continents).

Oh and by the way, I am irish and american (yes that’s right, your not the only one who can play that card). My father is an american citizen (from irish origins) and I have been born and raised in a free land, the Republic of Ireland (which has never been in war my life time, or the countless generations before me) which has only struggled in the last few hundred years with removing an oppressive foreign power who ripped the life from my nation and forced us all to speak a foreign language and work for the Empire; this is easily compared to the struggle that the average citizen in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and I’m sure soon Iran have gone through (and will go through), which sickens me as I know how much it has tarnished my country and tarnished the reputation of a once great super power in that of the great British Empire. The only difference between my countries experience and the experiences of the citizens of the fore-mentioned countries is that instead of the British Empire, who were rather open about their ambition of world control, is that your country runs around the world advertising a “freedom” and “democracy” package, liberating the poor doomed souls that inhabit these cursed lands (much like the tone the British Empire toke with Irish, Africans, Asians, Aborigines, Native Americans etc). You obviously know nothing of these struggles otherwise you would see the sheer hypocrisy of your latest post. You are supposedly Cherokee and Irish, yet you talk of every muslim like they were satan worshipers, much like the British Empire talked of the Pagan Irish.

Your paranoid interpretation of the Muslim world is typical of your fellow (average) country man. The uneducated will always fear what they do not know or understand – this is called ignorance. Ignorance can also be attributed to such statements as “I can now better understand why Ireland was at war with it’s self for so long, and if I remember correctly we awful Americans brokered much of the peace you now enjoy”; as it is an uneducated statement on something you obviously know nothing about.

Please, you or your “friend” respond; I’d love to hear what you have to say.

Yes, I was referring to Northern Ireland. This comment ” They are not up in arms, they do not worship a raping, mass-killing devil like you’ve described.” is either ignorance, or a total lack of historical knowledge on your part, which I will not bother to address. I am not in the mood to give history lessens today.

As for WWI, and WWII, if the Americans hadn’t entered those wars you would be saying nothing today, because your freedoms would be gone. There will never be peace between Islam and any other religion. If you believe you can have felicity with Islam, you need to understand who they are, where they came from, and what their objectives are. They don’t want peace. They want domination, and they will fight each other even if they achieve that.

You also said. ” Oh and by the way, I am irish and american (yes that’s right, your not the only one who can play that card).”. You need to re-read my reply. I said ” I am American, and I am very proud of that.” I mentioned which genealogical groups I was my blood line is from (Irish & Cherokee), but above that I am American. The reason I say “above that” is because I am American by choice, not by birth. I did not “play”any card.

As for the countries you mention “Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and I’m sure soon Iran”, stop, and think for a moment which religion is prevalent in each of them. Islam!! There was, within Iran a major uprising recently that was brought to it’s knees by the religious fanatics in power. There is no good answer for their situation because of Islam.
I must say I love this comment by you. “Your paranoid interpretation of the Muslim world is typical of your fellow (average) country man.”. So there is no confusion you where referring to my fellow Americans. Perhaps if a major city in Ireland had been attacked by Muslim terrorists; perhaps if you had almost three thousand deaths in that attack, maybe, just maybe, you would view Islam in a different light.

The bottom line is the United States of America has nothing to apologize for. We have done more good in this world than any country before us. We have freed more people than any other nation in history. After wars we didn’t occupy. We rebuilt countries we defeated. Look at the economies of Japan, and Germany today. We could have occupied both, as Russia did with Eastern Europe, but we didn’t.

You sir, have a victim mentality which is typical of liberals, Marxists, Communists, and progressives, world wide. Oh! Poor pitiful me! If only everyone would be nice! Oh, if only people would get along! We should all share! The sky is falling! People who are so weak, and ignorant that they will fall for all of the liberal garbage are of no interest to me. We don’t have time to waste on that pathetic way of thinking.

I will not change your mind, and you will not change mine. I do appreciate that fact that you didn’t use foul language, because I would have deleted your comment as I had to do with someone else today.

Well firstly I believe the only way to discuss anything with anyone is in a civil manner, but that is neither really here nor there. I appreciate that we are both stubborn and sure our way is right, and for that I do respect you. However, I will say this; Ireland never got involved with an organisation like the taliban, which during the Soviet invasion America armed to further her own agenda. When their job was complete, when the taliban forces stopped the invading red army America chose to ignore their new found geographical allies and let a country that stopped the Soviet progression to meet up with China be ravaged by opium growth, violence (a lot of which was done with American weapons that were gifted to the taliban) that turned the nation into the taliban controlled terror state that it is (or was, depending on your interpretation of that war) today; much in the same way as America arming a certain Sadaam Hussain and Israeli army (who run the worlds largest outdoor prison; granting no human rights to the people inside and expecting them all to be “okay about it”) who also receive huge funding every year for their military operations. Ireland has none of these ties, so we haven’t been attacked and will not be attacked by groups like the Taliban. As for World War 2; great, you guys won! If we were all speaking German right now (we in Ireland have had oppressors change our national language before) I see no reason that Ireland would be the worst place in the world to be. We haven’t harmed anyone, involved ourselves with government changes or armed terrorist groups, financed tyranny’s or invaded countries (as a united nation; unless you want to go back over 1,000 years to tribal irish invading the welsh and english coast). The Irish went around the world with open minds and respectful demeanour, I hope you can appreciate the differences between our foreign policies as Ireland has no enemies or nations with any hostility. So claiming that Islam is the common link, stop to think why they haven’t attacked Ireland? Because they have only attacked nations that have made it their business to stick their nose in foreign affairs and threaten any form of non-cooperation with war (for example threatening Jamaica with war not 3 months ago if they could not successfully present the drug lord “Dudu Cacas”)

To respond to the German and Japanese economies; look at World War 2! Do you think the Japanese OR Germans could have controlled that much without having incredible economies? Germany toke over most of Europe 30 years after Germany was crushed in World War 1! To claim any victory for those economies simply re-developing is silly.

To suggest that there will never be peace between Islam and any other religion is a very defeated approach to diplomacy; the only way to reach a common ground with any group of people that are different is by removing the stereotyping, the insults, the aggression; America has tried none of this and I believe your posts have shown that in its truest form. Not every Muslim nation is aggressive, not all of them have even recently been at war; some of them are American allies (without the use of Turkey, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would have gone very differently), and not every Muslim is “intolerant and violent” like your friends post suggested; they are interwoven into so many modern European countries, and if were intolerant and violent would not have the reputation they do for keeping to themselves, working hard and earning a rightful place in society; a freedom that everyone deserves regardless of religion – case in point Ireland.

In response to the history lesson about the Muslim religion… well, what religion has not been tarnished by history? I mean if you compare the Muslim religion to Christianity you aren’t really looking at any moral high ground for either side – both have done terrible things in the name of religion and the name of a greater message by a divine essence; God (or Allah etc., depending on your belief system)

As for Northern Ireland (which I am not a citizen of), it is a perfect example of how religions can work together; in it’s case a few bad people (like in any country or religion) creating enemies based on difference of opinion; I show no association with this so I hope you can understand that I take no insult to the fact that you see it as war-ravaged country, only taking insult from the fact that you think I am from there and not the Republic of Ireland.

Anyway, my aim was originally to stop generalising a group of people based on the actions of a few; I’m afraid we’ve got terribly sidetracked and gone to international insults for which I apologise. I know Muslims, Pakistani’s (mostly), who are great people; they appreciate everything in life that any Christian or Jew that I’ve ever met have appreciated with the only difference being trivial (like preferring a lamb corma to irish stew, or citar to guitar). Please don’t use the closed minded, generalising stereotype that nut-jobs like the Taliban represent the opinions of a people they are also oppressing and terrorising – they are a terrorist organisation, much like the IRA who caused great grief for the normal Irish man travelling or living abroad, especially living in England, for years through terrorism; think of how this effects a well intentioned Muslim American who works hard and wants to make a new life in the land of the free, only to be labelled as an “intolerant and violent” human being simply because he doesn’t believe the same thing as an American.

Lastly, saying I have a victim mentality is probably true to your cause, but my country was a victim for so long (unlike yours which in comparison was liberated from the British Empire in a weekend). This is a valid mentality as it is a reality; countless peoples have been victim of the exact same thing, literally billions of people. To label me a liberal, Marxist, Communist and progressive isn’t that much of an insult as I would never limit myself to a certain set of beliefs as I think building walls around yourself can only lead to paranoia and the eventual outcome of “us and them” (which I think your friends post typifies)

I understand that Germany, Japan, and others had strong economies before the war(WWII), but after the war they, along with England, and Italy were wiped out. The U.S. could have just said we won-we quite, but we didn’t. I couldn’t be more delighted that there is currently no violence in Ireland. I pray it stays that way forever in the future. I am fully informed on the circumstances of the Russians, and Afghanistan, and I don’t totally disagree with you on that issue. Mistakes were made.

As for the Muslim aspect, the bottom line for me, and many Americans is that we, and others have been attacked repeatedly by Muslim terrorists. The U.S. marines in Lebanon, the World Trade Center in 1993, the USS Cole, the World Trade Center on 9/11, Fort Hood, TX. hostages held in Iran, and the list goes on. We have approx. six million Muslims in the U.S., and other than the mosque issue in New York within two blocks of GZ, I am not aware of any problems that Muslims have with us. The mosque is unacceptable. They are trying to build a monument to allah on what we consider to be hallowed ground. This is the same thing they did in Cordoba Spain in 711AD, and it is an insult of the highest form to every American. Ask yourself how you would feel if a group (regardless of form) flew planes into Dublin and killed almost 3,000 innocent Irish citizens. Ask yourself how you would feel if the same group had attacked Ireland in one way or another for the last 30 years, killing thousands of people, and wanted to build a monument to their attacks on the same spot as their most successful attack.

I don’t hate all Muslims, but I do hate terrorist activities in any form. All Muslims may not be terrorists, but all terrorists (re:U.S.) are Muslim.

I appreciate your comments very much. I respect your right to disagree, and I believe that is the position we are in.
Best Regards
Patriot 1249

On September 16, 2010 at 3:01 pm victoria_29 said:

Wasn’t it Ireland that Catholics & Protestants were killing each other? I don’t care what part of the country it was or is in…point being religious war period. The religion of “peace” has killed more people in just the last 10 yrs than other “religious” wars all together. Ireland has never had a terror attack? They need to thank God, every other country in the world certainly has. Maybe she/he should try picking up a newspaper now & then.

You know what I found interesting, she/he pointed out he was from Northern Ireland. So, what? I say that as an American. The Terror attack was in NYC-that is in the north United States. I was born & raised in the deep south United States, I am about as southern as you can get. But that day when MY COUNTRY was attacked I didn’t give a fig if it was in NYC or right down the road in Montgomery. It was Americans-there was no north or south part of my country. You attack 1 single American it is an attack on all of us regardless of geography.

Well you are talking about two different countries, Ireland and Northern Ireland. I don’t show any association (personally, many of my country men would have the complete opposite stance) with Northern Ireland and stated that I was from the South of Ireland; better known as the Republic of Ireland. Yes protestants and catholic’s fight, but this has happened in nearly every northern European nation; I am a catholic, do I hold grudges against any Protestant for what has happened in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland? no, because the people you are talking about would find any reason to fight with someone; it has so little to do with religion it is not even worth discussing. The minds of a few aggressive people do not reflect the minds of the masses and if they did Ireland would have no relation with England, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Holland (to name but a few predominantly protestant nations). This is simply not the case, these countries welcome catholics with open arms, as do countries like Ireland, France, Spain, Italy (again to name but a few) to protestants. If the fighting in Northern Ireland represented the opinion of every catholic and protestant then Europe would be cast back hundreds of years into a continent of warfare; are we? No, it is not a religious war that is happening in Northern Ireland, it’s two sets of people who have differences who want to literally kill each other – and that is all. If it was a religious war with Christianity and Islam then I’m sure someone would have notified the peaceful European nations and the peaceful Muslim nations of what was going on. We haven’t got that phone call yet and trade and relations between the peaceful nations have probably never been in a better state. I can travel to Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon or Egypt safe in the knowledge that I am as safe. I have rights, embassies, catholic churches (if you are that devoted to religion) to go to. If it was a religious war then I would not be welcome in these nations and they would not be welcome here.

What you found interesting about my post was that I distinguished between being Northern Irish and Irish, well do you consider Canada your country? I mean you guys have so much in common (even though it’s a different country, doesn’t have such a similar name as Ireland and Northern Ireland) that hell, if you expect me to consider Northern Irish people as my own then I’m sure you would be obliged to consider Canadian citizens as citizens of the United States? Would that be fair on the the Northern Irish citizen or the Canadian citizen? that we presume they are part of our own nation simply because they are really close and are really similar? Thought not.

If the Taliban attacked my country, I’m sure there are proportions of the population that would jump to blame the obvious differences between us as people. They are mostly brown, we are mostly white, they are muslim, we are catholic; it’s really not that simple and again as I stated in my latest response to Patriot it is far too simplistic to think that an organisation like the Taliban represent the views of all Muslims. Seriously, grow up. If I (a catholic), go down the road and kill a neighbour, who just so happens to be protestant, for attacking me (let’s say, or robbing my car) one day does that constitute as a religious crime? even if religion has nothing to do with it? No, then how does a group of terrorists (who hate everything btw) attacking a group of Christians (I know there were far more than Christians in the 9/11 attacks, and others that I will mention, that suffered horrible, unjust deaths; but to just round up at least to the predominant religion) in New York, or London (the Underground attacks) or Spain (the attack on the train) represent the beliefs of my muslim equivalent in UAE or Dubai, Albania or Kosovo (to name two predominantly Muslim European countries)?

I am posting this comment in the spirit of fairness, but I believe I have already responded in another reply.
Patriot 1949

On September 17, 2010 at 6:17 pm victoria_29 said:

I was set to post a very scathing comment but instead pity has taken over. The very naive & obviously uninformed beliefs being projected makes me feel nothing but pity. I remember when my country was that naive. Are you really so naive that you can’t grasp that it does NOT matter what you have done or have not done. That it does not matter who you have armed or not armed? What part of the word Infidel do you not get? That means ANYONE that does not worship Allah….All MUSLIMS believe the Koran. Not just radical jihadist. There is no different doctrine beliefs like among Catholics, Baptists, etc. It is ALL ONE religion based on 1 book. It is not even a religion it is really a social/political/economic & religious way of life.

As for your ignorance in comparying North Ireland/Republic of Ireland with Canada & the United States. There is serious flaws in that comparison.b Not only are we 2 different countries we have nothing in common, no common language, no common money, no common government, no common ancestors, no common anything.

The naive and obviously uniformed? It does not matter what you have done or not done? Why in the name of hippidy hoppidy Christ has my country not been attacked by Jihadists? Or Scotland? Or any Scandanavian country? Because we haven’t involved ourselves in the Middle East; we haven’t decided from thousands of miles away who is right and wrong and then armed. We haven’t done this, so yeah Victoria it does matter. Sunni, Shi’a, Sufi and Ahmaddiya; ignorance is bliss, these are 4 different types of Muslim (like “Cathloics, Baptists, etc.”). How can you generalise in saying that it is “ALL ONE religion” and then say “It is not even a religion”; I think this pity you speak of can be shared between us because your either completely uneducated on Islam, are completely undecided on what it actually is or are incapable of presenting an argument.

As for YOUR ignorance in comparing Northern Ireland to Ireland, well I have some news for you; those serious flaws in comparison are neither serious or flawed. Ireland and Northern Ireland do not share the same currency (Euro and Pound respectively), much like the comparison with US+Canada, our primary languages are the same but much like Canada Ireland has a large population that speaks the “other” national language, in Canada’s case French and in Ireland’s case Irish. Much like the comparison of Government, Ireland and Northern Ireland share none. Ireland is an independent state while Northern Ireland is part of the British Commonwealth. No common ancestors, are you joking? Gigantic portions of Americans and Canadians can be simply traced back to 2 ancestral lines, Celtic and Germanic; the exact same as Ireland and Northern Ireland.

I hope you’ve reserved some of that pity for YOUR vastly flawed argument. At least with Patriot there was knowledge of what he was talking about, you just spouted random nonsense.

Regarding your response where you posted in the spirit of fairness, well, it was a response to victoria_29; and as such I addressed the arguements in her post (hence why I might have sounded repetitive).

In regards to your proper response; well yes, I agree that all terrorist attacks in recent years have been by Muslim terrorists, but there have been a fair share of domestic nut-jobs that seem to go postal (Oklahoma bombing, school shootings, college shootings, snipers, etc.) as well; they do not represent the masses and you should never assume that Muslims do either (similarly with the Florida preacher that wanted to burn bibles, he neither represents the beliefs of everyone in his faith or Americans). You do not have any qualms with American Muslims, but that respect should also be shown to developed Muslim nations. They produce their fair share of psychopaths too but comments like “The Muslim world is up in arms because of their beliefs, and they will be up in arms as long as they exist.” are not the way forward for any party, this mentality solves nothing; it neither cures the problems that Americans have with terrorist harbouring states or the problems that these young Muslim Terrorists have with America. The only way forward is to solve the problems of the past, go back to the beginning and start again from scratch.

The Mosque near ground zero is something I agree with you on, though I think rather than a victory shrine it is just very bad taste; the wrong time perhaps. There was no controversy over the mosque in the World Trade Centre (of old), even after the car bomb attack in 1993. I think the reaction from the proposed one 2 blocks away is understandably because of how recent the attack was; though a victory shrine is a bit of a stretch I think. To say it is an insult to every American is a bit pre-mature, consider the feelings of the Muslim Americans who live in down town New York that lost their place of worship; now people are saying “no”, in the land of freedom of religion (which other American citizens have enjoyed for so long), on land that is legally owned, with a project that has been approved by the local authorities, Barrack Obama and Mayor Bloomberg. Again though, I think it is in terrible taste as 9/11 in my opinion is far too recent.

Apart from that I will bid you adieu. I’ve enjoyed debating with you, even though neither of us have changed our stance I think it’s refreshing to gain your insight on what’s happening; I don’t agree with it, but can appreciate the process in which you came to your conclusion.

I have stated my position in earlier replies so I will not repeat them here. I totally disagree with you for the reasons I have stated. I appreciate the civil conversation. In the future on this post I will assume anything you post is directed to Victoria_29.

Maybe & I know this has not dawned on you because it is quite obvious that you have done limited research on what Islam actually is, you haven’t been attacked because they see you as a pushover country. People in denial of facts rarely look at the big picture. Do you really believe that your country ALONE can defend itself? Mine can…& make no mistake no matter what babble obama says My Country will defend itself. Did it ever dawn on your babbling wimps that the reason you are able to do your little critcism & critique of the United States is because AMERICAN SOLDIERS have defended around the world that. You don’t think living under Hitler, Stalin or Mussolini would have been that much different? Your are really historically uninformed & naive. Your worthless butt owes Americans for the ability to sit & be such a condescending pompous ass. Yes, we have been attacked by Islam & you haven’t but if you had done any research or taken time to read the Koran & you might find out what Muslim’s believe about infidels & you might be doing the smart thing & asking yourself some questions. But it is much simplier to sit & enjoy the freedom that Americans have fought & died for you to have & bitch about Americans. Do you really believe they are going to declare war – which for the record they have done on all infidels except in Ireland? You remind me of some of the progressive fools here in our country that believe the same babble that you can kiss butt & they will play nice.

Good luck with your beliefs as insane & dangerous as they are. I truly feel sorry for your country if they all think like you, at least Americans have woke up, it sounds as if your country hasn’t yet. Do not even bother answering back, I only have very limited tolerance with ignorance & I have reached my maximum limit in regards to you. My pity for you is beginning to be replaced by anger. Look around the world you fool, it is always AMERICA that people to turn to, they don’t turn to your country-it is just not all that important. They do not turn to Ireland when there is a major disaster-they turn to Americans because unlike you they are smart enough (as are Islam terrorists) to know that Americans will always do the right thing.