Jeff wrote:Agreed. But, those are really not examples of what I meant by a "guru connection".

Then be more precise.

Thought I had been in the guru yoga thread. My mistake seems to have been thinking that the practice of "Tummo" was more common with Buddhists. Common words seem to be challenging.

As to more precise... It is easier to describe in energetic terms, but...

In a true guru connection, a guru extends their presence/awareness/consciousness/light to the "space" of the person being connected. It is non-dual (they do not go anywhere astrally) and they effectively "overlay". In this "shared space", they can transmit feelings, physical sensations, energy and knowledge. The clarity of the "transmission" is dependent on the clarity of the receipiant.

From the receipiant perspective (if they are mature enough to notice), it can feel like they are in a bubble of the guru. This buble can be felt at a cellular level. All "thought" effectively stops and often it feels like their head is in a ball of light. Sometimes it can seem like they see (or are aware of) their guru. Often, if they have the ability, they notice heat or vibrations in the body.

Regarding teachings... See the words of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu in the above posts. Or, meet various "true" guru masters or reasearch guru yoga. It is not my place to try to name masters for others.

Regarding tummo... No, higher levels of tummo allow you be able to "receive" the direct transmission. In the final stages of tummo one gains full control of the "winds" and they come to reside in the heart. Feeling "winds" is called "vibrations" in traditions like Kashmir Shaivism.

Jeff wrote:As to more precise... It is easier to describe in energetic terms, but...

In a true guru connection, a guru extends their presence/awareness/consciousness/light to the "space" of the person being connected. It is non-dual (they do not go anywhere astrally) and they effectively "overlay". In this "shared space", they can transmit feelings, physical sensations, energy and knowledge. The clarity of the "transmission" is dependent on the clarity of the receipiant.

From the receipiant perspective (if they are mature enough to notice), it can feel like they are in a bubble of the guru. This buble can be felt at a cellular level. All "thought" effectively stops and often it feels like their head is in a ball of light. Sometimes it can seem like they see (or are aware of) their guru. Often, if they have the ability, they notice heat or vibrations in the body.

What happens in a Dzogchen master's transmission?

Jeff, are you on hashballs?

Kevin

Last edited by Virgo on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Many people on this forum are students of Norbu. You do realize that right?

You are 100% wrong here, and are merely projecting your own deluded nonsense.

Jeff wrote:Regarding tummo... No, higher levels of tummo allow you be able to "receive" the direct transmission. In the final stages of tummo one gains full control of the "winds" and they come to reside in the heart. Feeling "winds" is called "vibrations" in traditions like Kashmir Shaivism.

Again projecting your own deluded nonsense?

Last edited by SSJ3Gogeta on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

The guru transmitting Direct Introduction does so due to having realized the state and secondly holding the lineage. The ultimate which is realized & develped by his Direct Introduction methods & Guru Yoga is in fact one's own true nature of mind or the rigpa (ineffable experiential knowledge) of the ultimate truth of all kayas inseparable: primordial purity and its adorning infinite possible natural manifestations, non-dual. This is inside one & one has to discover it for oneself after receiving the master's DI & teachings, and to do Dzogchen specific preliminaries which include self pointing out, after initial DI, to discover so. The guru just makes it possible for the blooming of that potential to discover by oneself, by his realization & lineage. Dzogchen has to be learned afresh without pre-suppositions. Otherwise the blessing transmissions of other vehicles & lineages might be more suitable for those inclined so.

Creating syncretic hodgepodges from Dzogchen & other pet concepts into what one likes it to be is one of the worst things one could do. It is best for us beginners to discard all possible associations one would like to attach to Dzogchen & approach it with a total blank mind. Anything else is wishful thinking & not really honest in being open to what it actually is. It is good not to constantly expect results but be merely diligent on its path yet relaxed in body, speech (energies) & mind. We are often told Dzogchen is realized best by having an open & relaxed mind, empty of preconceptions of what one would want it to be or imagine so. And as the Buddha said, "I can not discover the truth for you, I only show you the way, you have to discover it for yourself". The master just proves & makes it possible by his lineage to see: it is inside ourselves & has been closer than the jugular accompanying us in our near infinite life-forms in many world systems without being recognized. The forms of guru yoga help to discover & then to develop the realization of that knowledge further. Good luck on your path Jeff.

A lot of folks here seem to be smoking up ganja sticks. But I am not one to judge. All I'm saying is if your head is floating and you feel "vibrations" you should to see if you are smoked up on hash or not, because that might be the problem. That is all I am aying. That could be the problem.

Btw, no offense Jeff. It was just a joke. But that is some trippy stuff you said.

Kevin

Last edited by Virgo on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Virgo wrote:All I'm saying is if your head is floating and you feel "vibrations" you should to see if you are smoked up on hash or not, because that might be the problem. That is all I am aying. That could be the problem.Kevin

username wrote:The guru transmitting Direct Introduction does so due to having realized the state and secondly holding the lineage. The ultimate which is realized & develped by his Direct Introduction methods & Guru Yoga is in fact one's own true nature of mind or the rigpa (ineffable experiential knowledge) of the ultimate truth of all kayas inseparable: primordial purity and its adorning infinite possible natural manifestations, non-dual. This is inside one & one has to discover it for oneself after receiving the master's DI & teachings, and to do Dzogchen specific preliminaries which include self pointing out, after initial DI, to discover so. The guru just makes it possible for the blooming of that potential to discover by oneself, by his realization & lineage. Dzogchen has to be learned afresh without pre-suppositions. Otherwise the blessing transmissions of other vehicles & lineages might be more suitable for those inclined so.

Very succinct and beautifully said. The guru can only help guide one to the door, but the "shared" experience makes the path easier.

username wrote:Creating syncretic hodgepodges from Dzogchen & other pet concepts into what one likes it to be is one of the worst things one could do. It is best for us beginners to discard all possible associations one would like to attach to Dzogchen & approach it with a total blank mind. Anything else is wishful thinking & not really honest in being open to what it actually is. It is good not to constantly expect results but be merely diligent on its path yet relaxed in body, speech (energies) & mind. We are often told Dzogchen is realized best by having an open & relaxed mind, empty of preconceptions of what one would want it to be or imagine so. And as the Buddha said, "I can not discover the truth for you, I only show you the way, you have to discover it for yourself". The master just proves & makes it possible by his lineage to see: it is inside ourselves & has been closer than the jugular accompanying us in our near infinite life-forms in many world systems without being recognized. The forms of guru yoga help to discover & then to develop the realization of that knowledge further. Good luck on your path Jeff.

There is no attempt to create a hodgepodge between systems. Only looking for the commonality across system frameworks.

A lot of folks here seem to be smoking up ganja sticks. But I am not one to judge. All I'm saying is if your head is floating and you feel "vibrations" you should to see if you are smoked up on hash or not, because that might be the problem. That is all I am aying. That could be the problem.

Btw, no offense Jeff. It was just a joke. But that is some trippy stuff you said.

Kevin

In the practice of tummo and other pranayama related methods the result is "vibrating bliss." Jeff's comments about his own experience are spot on.

Jeff wrote:[ Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

Jeff wrote:[ Does not a senior student feel light/divine love in the presence of someone who has attained Rigpa? (Divine love "feels" more like a combination of "peace" and "joy" than what we normally describe as romantic love.)

A lot of folks here seem to be smoking up ganja sticks. But I am not one to judge. All I'm saying is if your head is floating and you feel "vibrations" you should to see if you are smoked up on hash or not, because that might be the problem. That is all I am aying. That could be the problem.

Btw, no offense Jeff. It was just a joke. But that is some trippy stuff you said.

Kevin

No offense taken. I think you will find the terms/experiences that I am describing are part of many paths.