Foriegn fruits words places and last names. I have a note pad on my phone where I write them down.

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Varak:You tell the mangy, pointy-eared gortok, in sirihish: "What, girl? You say the sorceror-king has fallen down the well?"Ghardoan:A pitiful voice rises from the well below, "I've fallen and I can't get up..."

Names come easy to me, and I generally don't get hung up on them. Sometimes I even give my character two names, one that their friends call them or a nickname, and then their real name. But sometimes I like letting that happen naturally in game. Ya'll are great at giving people nicknames.

Old Norse Names-------------------AlvidaAsgerAsmundBalderBrandtCalderColdenEerikkiEinarEmblaEricoFiskeFreyGeirGostaGunillaHakonHaldorHalvarHavardrHegeHellaHilleviIngeIngolfInkeriIverJariJerrikJorunnKeldKustaaLathamOlaviOlleOveRagnaRangvaldrRunaSagaSigfridSigneSigrunSolveigSolviSveinnSylviTaitThoraTordisTorilTrygveTyrUlfUnneVidarWelch

Wow, just noticed this outstanding post. I had actually written something similar, and I'll post it below since it's already written, LOL.

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Names

There's been an above-average level of Out-of-Game Reference (OOG-Reference) names lately in game. I don't personally have a problem with this. To me, if you're four RL hours into a Byn mission, and you finally find the cave where the mysterious elf-treasure is suppose to be stored, only to find out......the cave is completely empty, then I don't have a problem with someone breaking character and quipping:

OOC: These are not the droids you're looking forLOL. To me that's funny. Granted, as funny as I find that, the staff may disagree, so you're stuck arguing with them at this point. And for what it's worth, I'm greatful for their intervention. After all if the staff didn't crack down on stuff like this, then everyone would be doing it. If everyone did it all the time, Arm would no longer be an engaging post-apocalyptic simulation, it would be a joke game.That being said, I think that names specifically deserve some attention. Besides the frequency of American names appearing in game, I think the name system is problematic. Let's temporarily put aside my dislike of the policy of forcing people to have their character's name as a keyword. For starters, the requirement to have a unique name for each character is pretty wonky. While I won't exactly call myself a world citizen, most cultures that I've a working knowlege of (e.g. Korean, American, British, Arabic, Russian, French, etc.) all tend to draw from a fairly small list of names. In fact, in the case of five of the above, they all draw from the *same* list of names, even though the pronouciation will vary across language groups. I think it would be handy if we as players (not necessarily with staff involvement) could arrive at a list of common names. While I disagree that names say a lot about an individual, I think names say a lot about that person's parents, and to a lesser extent about their upbringing. It's mildly disruptive to me to meet someone in game and have zero etymology about their name. Sometimes that's a good thing. In any naming system, some people will deliberately eschew conventions, and some will do so accidentally. Moreover, in a fantasy video game filled with elves and dwarves there is no concrete reason to completely standardize on anything.But I myself would like a list of common names, and think that Pre-Islamic, Persian, Turkish and Byzantine might make excellent sources. Obviously if this is to be non-compulsory, other sources might be okay as well with staff approval. Just one word about style - shortish names are kind of an American thing. Bill, Joe, Bob - Americans, particluarly mid-Westerners like short names, but this doesn't really fit Zalanthas. If you feel the need to shorten names, at least please don't treat longer names as strange, longer names are the norm. Three syllables may be a comfortable minimum.

This feels awfully authoritative to me. Where are you getting the assertion that names of Zalanthas should be several syllables? Why do you feel we should be using names that have some basis in real life culture so you can ascertain meaning from them?

This feels awfully authoritative to me. Where are you getting the assertion that names of Zalanthas should be several syllables? Why do you feel we should be using names that have some basis in real life culture so you can ascertain meaning from them?

Good question! Well very few cultures appreciate short names. Short names relate to like American Cowboy culture, which is an almost quintessentially American thing. I think American game designers sometimes have a skewed perspective because America is so very different from the entire rest of the world in a few odd ways. It's odd when Arm is like America in those specific ways, because it makes the game feel weird. People are welcome to debate whether Allanak is more like Byzantium, or whether Tuluk is more like Cairo, or whether Red Storm is supposed to be like Timbuktu...I'd value people's thoughts on this. But the short name thing is just flat out wrong....however the game is mostly played by Americans. And sometimes shorthand is just plain handy. The popular phrase, "Tek's balls!" needs to roll off the tongue, it doesn't have the same ring as "Tektolones testicles!" But if you want to use shorthand, at least giving a nod to longer names is appreciated. Tektolnes is a longer game. Muk-Utep is...at least proper. Bill and Joe and Bob are just too short. It doesn't *feel* right. Quetzelquatl and Narolethotep are much more appropriate.

Should the game use a synthetic language rather than a real one? Possibly, I just doubt personally that the game has the resources to pull it off correctly. At best we could mimic Esperanto or something, but even Esperanto sounds a lot like Spanish. I'd just rather have Spanish at that point, if you see what I mean. I don't think Spanish would be universally acceptable, because a lot of people would be thinking Cheech Marin rather than the Conquistadors or the Inquisition. Spielberg did about the best of anyone at constructing fantasy languages for Star Wars, but he's also a creative genius who had linguists on staff. Arm doesn't have anything like that.

I tried playing with some of the synthetic language in the game, i.e. the SLK language, and it was a wash. I've avoided calling too much attention to this because I'm aware of the hard work that went into this, it just isn't working out though.

Are there times when shorter names and terser communications are appropriate? Sure. I'd imagine that in-game military commands and codes and nicknames would be shorter because of the nature of the communications. I have real life sailing experience, and sailing terminology (which comes from Old English) is terse because a lot of things need to happen at once.

...and sometimes Old Fashioned names are just plain short. If I recall, the Egyptian sun god is Ra. Simply Ra. Why is it so short when a King's name is Tutenkamen? It just simply is.

Names should tell a story. I want to understand the story.

I tried throwing a bit of French into my last character...which I wasn't happy with because I felt that for your average player won't be aware of the brutality associated with things like the French Legion, the gritty parts of French Colonialism, French piracy or colonial-era French prisons. French will likely be too floral for a modern audience. I'm glad that I tried but I don't think French is the way to go.

Lots of in-game references reference the Levant of antiquity, which might be the way to go, not that I think FW's suggestion of Norse names is bad at all. I just wanted to see what other people thought because I'm aware of the fact that some of the playerbase are soldiers returning from Arabic countries, and might not be all that happy with Arabic references. At one time we had a strong Turkish contingency of players, and they might not be happy with a casual treatment of Turkish. Other players opinions are important to me.

The unique name thing is bothersome but can be easily corrected. It's not that Bill and Joe and John are terrible, but it should probably be more Vilhelm and Yoseff and Yonas.

And what about players that have a different idea? Fine, if it passes staff approval it's okay with me. How about people who don't have the time or interest to learn a smattering of Arabic? That's fine too. This would be meant to improve game atmosphere for people who are interested in playing it, not to ruin the experience of people who weren't feeling it.

I'd really be okay with a synthetic language, I just don't think we could do one well. And I'd rather be learning. Armageddon has challenged me to learn a lot, I learned RL horseback riding so I could play more accurately.

Maybe we could put this to a vote? I would be totally okay with a synthetic language I just think a real life language would be better.

EDIT: ...and like maybe there could be a list of names that are common in the north while being rare in the south? I'd rather have my character picked on for having a Northie name than a northie accent, with all respect for the accent code.

I'm just not understanding the requirement that we equate Zalanthan culture with IRL culture. So short names are an American thing. So? Names in earth culture are also based on written language, not primarily spoken language. It seems like a completely different ballgame to me. I can't claim to know how a culture would develop their naming system without written language, but I feel like it might play a part, and you seem to be asserting a lot of your own opinion as if this is the way it should be in the game. It's not necessarily true, and I admit it's not necessarily untrue, either. It's a discussion of opinions.

Having a sense for common names with a flavor for region wouldn't be a bad thing, though. I'm just not sure we need to police name length... at all.

I'm just not understanding the requirement that we equate Zalanthan culture with IRL culture. So short names are an American thing. So? Names in earth culture are also based on written language, not primarily spoken language. It seems like a completely different ballgame to me. I can't claim to know how a culture would develop their naming system without written language, but I feel like it might play a part, and you seem to be asserting a lot of your own opinion as if this is the way it should be in the game. It's not necessarily true, and I admit it's not necessarily untrue, either. It's a discussion of opinions.

Having a sense for common names with a flavor for region wouldn't be a bad thing, though. I'm just not sure we need to police name length... at all.

Thank you. Disagree that it's an opinion based issue.

But yeah, that's one of the things I was worried about, was the idea that somebody would be policing. In fact, staff are already policing names but they're doing so based upon decade-old policy.

I think that if a standard would be developed, it should be opt-in only. Like if there were a list of pre-approved names, you'd be completely free to use one of those names, but if you had something more creative in mind, you just submit your idea to the staff (hint: you already have to do this).

So if anything, it would streamline things and create less policing.

Please, keep the criticism coming - my last two ideas were kind of bombs so I'd be happy if this one got off the ground.

As ever with people trying to bring history in on their side, I want to note that short names really aren't some kind of special American thing. Not even short full names are. Chinese names, for example, have regularly been bisyllabic for millennia now.

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You take the last bite of your scooby snack.This tastes like ordinary meat.There is nothing left now.

As ever with people trying to bring history in on their side, I want to note that short names really aren't some kind of special American thing. Not even short full names are. Chinese names, for example, have regularly been bisyllabic for millennia now.

That's a good point. It's funny, I caught the same thing when I was on my way home from work, but you beat me in.

...looks like something got by you as well , though. I specifically mentioned Korean as a culture that I have passing familiarity with, and they also tend to favor short names, at least for people. Juche!

But I have no excuse either. I'd actually gone for beers with a guy named Lee this weekend. Lee. Which could be shortened to Le, in theory. Two letter word. LOL.

Armageddon as a game has to reference something from Earth though, unless we were playing a *really* abstract game like Tetris. But even Tetris references gravity. Maybe chess? Other than the piece names the game is really abstract. Armageddon isn't that Abstract, it's essentially like a chunk of the Byzantine empire got dropped into the middle of a desert on a bad day in the middle of a drought, plus dinosaurs plus racism plus monsters plus evil mages. Not really that abstract.

I got permission from the staff to explore the issue further, so I'll be making a poll so that everyone can have a say that wants to.

Serious question, though: Do you think people would be happy if I actually made a Mongolian type warrior? I've been wanting to make one for a while but I always assumed it would bother people.