King Crimson's album was released in 1969 and Black Sabbath's first 1970. Although Black Sabbath (a band I very much like in it's context) maybe were the first to play that style. Fripp may have been the first to record that guitar tone. Maybe Jimmy Page was first the to use that guitar tone on a album? It's what came first the chicken or the egg? The tone or the genre?

jtmack wrote:King Crimson's album was released in 1969 and Black Sabbath's first 1970. Although Black Sabbath (a band I very much like in it's context) maybe were the first to play that style. Fripp may have been the first to record that guitar tone. Maybe Jimmy Page was first the to use that guitar tone on a album? It's what came first the chicken or the egg? The tone or the genre?

what has me confused, is there are several definitions of "Tone", so just wanted to clarify it a bit. and even with the several definitions, I'm having a hard time connecting the two, especially as a Genre definition. so, just looking for YOUR definition we got working here.

jtmack wrote:King Crimson's album was released in 1969 and Black Sabbath's first 1970. Although Black Sabbath (a band I very much like in it's context) maybe were the first to play that style. Fripp may have been the first to record that guitar tone. Maybe Jimmy Page was first the to use that guitar tone on a album? It's what came first the chicken or the egg? The tone or the genre?

what has me confused, is there are several definitions of "Tone", so just wanted to clarify it a bit. and even with the several definitions, I'm having a hard time connecting the two, especially as a Genre definition. so, just looking for YOUR definition we got working here.

A musical tone is a steady periodic sound. A musical tone is characterized by its duration, pitch, intensity (or loudness), and timbre (or quality).[1] The notes used in music can be more complex than musical tones, as they may include aperiodic aspects, such as attack transients, vibrato, and envelope modulation.A simple tone, or pure tone, has a sinusoidal waveform. A complex tone is any musical tone that is not sinusoidal, but is periodic, such that it can be described as a sum of simple tones with harmonically related frequencies.[2] Their guitar sound/tone is not a pure acoustic guitar sound their guitar tone/sound is heavily distorted which I believe stated a genre the way they used it... Shit Indy now I'm getting confused!

I think it's that distorto fuzz guitar tone that made "21st Century Schizoid Man" jump out at the time. I've often heard it referred to as "proto-heavy metal," since that guitar sound became such a big part of metal, complete with the "power chords" Fripp used (actually not a chord at all, just an open fifth). But Black Sabbath featured that sound through the whole album, before the metal genre existed. I loved the first KC album, and I liked the first Black Sabbath album a lot too. I was a young guitarist who wanted to make rude noises like that!

MarkSullivan wrote:I think it's that distorto fuzz guitar tone that made "21st Century Schizoid Man" jump out at the time. I've often heard it referred to as "proto-heavy metal," since that guitar sound became such a big part of metal, complete with the "power chords" Fripp used (actually not a chord at all, just an open fifth). But Black Sabbath featured that sound through the whole album, before the metal genre existed. I loved the first KC album, and I liked the first Black Sabbath album a lot too. I was a young guitarist who wanted to make rude noises like that!

according to a friend of mine on FB, "the first to use Fuzz and distortion on their guitars was "The Kinks" and Dave Davies". and their album came out in 1964 predating KC and Black Sabbath by several years. so how does that fit into the equation?

and several people agreed, all referring to the style of the guitar playing as a forerunner to Heavy Metal. with this as an example.

""You Really Got Me" was an early hit song built around power chords (perfect fifths and octaves),and heavily influenced later rock musicians, particularly in the sub-genres heavy metal and punk rock. American musicologist Robert Walser wrote that it is "the first hit song built around power chords" while critic Denise Sullivan of Allmusic writes, "'You Really Got Me' remains a blueprint song in the hard rock and heavy metal arsenal."

To me The Kinks sound more like aluminum foil rather than heavy metal. They may have been the first to use those chords but they didnt have that rich, full powerful sound like Sabbath, Zeppelin, King Crimson.

Krimzep wrote:To me The Kinks sound more like aluminum foil rather than heavy metal. They may have been the first to use those chords but they didnt have that rich, full powerful sound like Sabbath, Zeppelin, King Crimson.

Yes once again here comes that word tone. The sound the kinks use is more of a reverb sound than the heavily distorted sound of Black Sabbath or 21csm... Not to say that Kinks weren't rock innovators of sound and style and really original...

Indyrod wrote:""You Really Got Me" was an early hit song built around power chords (perfect fifths and octaves),and heavily influenced later rock musicians, particularly in the sub-genres heavy metal and punk rock. American musicologist Robert Walser wrote that it is "the first hit song built around power chords" while critic Denise Sullivan of Allmusic writes, "'You Really Got Me' remains a blueprint song in the hard rock and heavy metal arsenal."

I used to cover "You Really Got Me," and I always used full barre chords. I'm pretty sure that's the sound. Even that had precursors: think of "Louie Louie." That was a loud guitar, but it didn't have the kind of overdrive that Fripp used, or later metal bands. It certainly had a lot of attitude. But trying to fix origins like this is ultimately pointless. There's always something that came before, and it's just a matter of how far back you want to go.