Two of my co-workers were discussing how they have to pull back their circumcised sons' remaining foreskin every day (their sons are 18 months) so it doesn't re-adhere. I personally would feel uncomfortable doing that--I feel like it's his private part and not for me to cut off or pull back or mess with. I thought to myself, "Wow, hard to believe people actually think circumcised boys are easier to take care of, considering I've never had to do anything with my intact son's privates."

Good luck.

This...I did that with my oldest. He was circ'd and I pulled the skin down every day because it kept re-adhering. So stupid. So sad. But it's what my doctor told me to do. *sighs* Live and learn...sadly.

"I should add that this doesn't mean the discussion is over! It means that he's open for discussion and that circ doesn't mean the end of our marriage or a huge fight. He wants to make sure I've done the research on both sides so we can discuss it logically."

I think it's fantastic that you can go about this with research though. I had to get past the stubborn "I have a penis, end of argument" argument. At least you can get past that knee-jerk reaction to the real information. That is where you and dh can do your best decision making

Good luck to you! Also, it's never a moot point, because you now have information that might be helpful to other moms too, as they mull over their decisions for future sons. Information is always a good thing when it comes to making any decision

FWIW, my sons are intact and have never had problems. I believe most problems come from improper care, namely forced retraction of the foreskin in young boys when it is still mostly fused to the penis. I don't think it's a big deal for an older boy or man to rinse off in the shower every day. It seems to be a uniquely American rumor that foreskins are really difficult to deal with and require circumcision later in life.

AFWife, good point about dealing with things when they happen. What doesn't everyone think like that?

Circing to prevent future problems is like chopping down your favourite tree because it 'might' catch a tree disease in the future. Or having your cat put down in case it gets sick in the future.

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Apparently he had chronic UTIs as a child and the ped said it was because he wasn't circ'd.

The ped has no idea what they are talking about.

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One of DH's coworkers dated a guy in college that wasn't circ'd and she said that he had CONSTANT infections and that's why she had all of her boys done.

If this story is true (and it may not be as in 'chinese whispers'.) there is a good chance it was iatrogenic: his foreskin was prematurely retracted by one or more adults (doctors, nurses, parents etc.) with who knows what on their fingers.

If this story is true (and it may not be as in 'chinese whispers'.) there is a good chance it was iatrogenic: his foreskin was prematurely retracted by one or more adults (doctors, nurses, parents etc.) with who knows what on their fingers.

Infections don't happen by themselves.

There is also some evidence that infections can burrow deep in the tubes and you can get the same infection over and over. This obviously has nothing to do with foreskin and you need to treat it by going into the tubes. It crazy how many doctors think that circumcision is the best way to deal with reoccuring infections.

Just had to chime in and let you know that I feel for you and that I know how tough this decision must be. My husband and I really struggled with it when our first child was born 15 years ago. Also, I have to say that all four of are sons are not circumcized and have never had even the slightest problem. Ultimately, what sealed the decision for us was the simple fact that the penis has a foreskin by design and for a reason. Kind of like eyes have eyelids. It made sense to us to just let it be. Just remember that both of your kids will be fine, whatever you decide. All we can do as parents is make the best choices we can in the moment. I admire you for being so thoughtful, thorough, and open in your descision-making. Best wishes and hugs to you, mama.

Think of it this way...what is the worst that can happen if you leave your son intact? You know never to retract him or let anyone retract him. That's it. No other care. Nothing bad can happen to him as a result of being intact. There is a tiny, miniscule chance (I believe with proper care, the rate is 1 in 10,000) that your son will legitimately need or want to be circumcised in his lifetime. Other than that...nothing. His penis will be fully functional, unscarred, he risks no wound infection, no death.

Now, what's the worst that can happen to a circ'd son? If you're lucky (or rather, if he's lucky), he will receive proper anesthesia, have a loose circ, minimal bleeding, no adhesions, no infection and he will escape the small number of babies who die. There are a lot of variables there, a lot of things that need to go right.

The fact that circumcision kills over 200 boys a year in the US is more than enough reason to make me an intactivist. There is no risk to intactness. There is significant risk to circumcision. Your first son managed to get through his circumcision without any extra complications it would seem, but there's no guarantee that your second son will. It all comes down to what you can live with. My ex had long term complications from his circumcision that most certainly affected me. I could live with my son being the 1 in 10,000 boys who legitimately wanted or needed to be circumcised. I could never live with myself if I chose to get him cut and he suffered serious complications or died.

ETA: The intact men I know are blissfully happy with their foreskins, regard them as the best part of their penis, and would sooner cut off their arm than part with it.

Another thought I had this morning while getting the kids ready for school.

What is the worst thing that could happen with either:

If left intact he could one day develop an infection either yeast or bacterial which would need to be treated with either abx or a yeast med.

If circed then he could actually loose his life.

The odds of the first one happening are higher than the second, for some boys, I'd take the infection any day.

The only true reasons for a required circ are frostbite, gangrene, cancer and damage that cant be repaired otherwise. And any of those could happen to the circed penis as well and would also require removing part or all of the circed penis. Obviously all of those are very unlikely though.

There is also some evidence that infections can burrow deep in the tubes and you can get the same infection over and over. This obviously has nothing to do with foreskin and you need to treat it by going into the tubes. It crazy how many doctors think that circumcision is the best way to deal with reoccuring infections.

When I first became sexually active with my DH (who is circ'd), I kept getting yeast infections. Every month or so for a couple of YEARS. It was suggested to me by my friends that DH could be reinfecting me, so I talked to my doctor and she gave me a cream for both of us to use, even though it didn't make sense to us because there was no physical sign of infection on him and I knew that it had to be coming internally if it was coming from him--an external cream wouldn't help. So I sent him to his doctor, who told him in no uncertain terms, "It can't be coming from you. You're circumcised." No examination or sample or culture or anything necessary. Desperate, I started collecting Diflucan pills because my doctor had written me a renewable prescription so I wouldn't have to see her every month. I self-medicated with an aggressive treatment for myself (1/day for a week) and I gave some to DH (1/week for a month). I have not had another yeast infection since and it has been 5 years, including a pregnancy.

My ds is circ'd - when he was born nearly 8 years ago it was one of the few things I didn't research and just did because I thought it's what you do. And it was every bit as awful and painful as the videos you can find online - I could hear him screaming down the hall and when they brought him back to me he was in a semi-coma for a day or two. He wouldn't nurse, and when I asked the LC what was wrong - she said, "Did you have him circ'd? That's what happens to so many little boys afterwards" I felt like complete crap, still do (although I've had to let it go and move on) and I WILL NEVER put another child of mine through that again. We are having another little boy in October, and he will be intact. When you know better, you do better - and the best I can do now is learn from my mistake with ds, and not put another boy through that.

Anyway, my circ'd almost 8 year old has had repeat UTIs. Enough that we had to have the urine reflux test done earlier this year. So while I've never posted about it anywhere, the circ'd penis can have issues too.

My ds is circ'd - when he was born nearly 8 years ago it was one of the few things I didn't research and just did because I thought it's what you do. And it was every bit as awful and painful as the videos you can find online - I could hear him screaming down the hall and when they brought him back to me he was in a semi-coma for a day or two. He wouldn't nurse, and when I asked the LC what was wrong - she said, "Did you have him circ'd? That's what happens to so many little boys afterwards" I felt like complete crap, still do (although I've had to let it go and move on) and I WILL NEVER put another child of mine through that again. We are having another little boy in October, and he will be intact. When you know better, you do better - and the best I can do now is learn from my mistake with ds, and not put another boy through that.

Anyway, my circ'd almost 8 year old has had repeat UTIs. Enough that we had to have the urine reflux test done earlier this year. So while I've never posted about it anywhere, the circ'd penis can have issues too.

When I first became sexually active with my DH (who is circ'd), I kept getting yeast infections. Every month or so for a couple of YEARS. It was suggested to me by my friends that DH could be reinfecting me, so I talked to my doctor and she gave me a cream for both of us to use, even though it didn't make sense to us because there was no physical sign of infection on him and I knew that it had to be coming internally if it was coming from him--an external cream wouldn't help. So I sent him to his doctor, who told him in no uncertain terms, "It can't be coming from you. You're circumcised."

I just heard someone claim the opposite and said that she circumcised her son because she kept getting yeast infections from one of her intact partners. I explained how it can burrow or was probably a problem with the urinary tract and that it wasn't the circumcision but no one believed me. I knew this could happen with a circumcised guy too and that the problem was they were just treating with topical antibiotics and not exploring further. They usually explore with females that get re occurent infections but with guys they just assume wrongly that only the foreskin would cause that problem.

... but even in this anti-circ board most of the posts are desperate mothers worried about forced retraction, uti's, nameless boils and cysts, bleeding and infections. All uncirc'd boys, and I can't help but question myself on the morality of the possibility of putting my child through years of pain until he is old enough to tell me that he would like a circumsision... Not saying that every uncirc'd kid has problems. But the number of stories is overwhelming for this first time mom.

Well...you do realize that only the moms having problems really have anything to write about, right? I have two intact boys (ages 6 & 8), and have never had problems with them. They haven't had "years of pain," rather they've had "years of fun" playing with their foreskins.

On the flip side, one of my girl friends who is adamently pro-circ has a son with a buried penis who had to have surgery for meateal stenosis. I dated a guy who had the same surgery, and had a friend years ago whose son also needed surgery for that. I have no clue how many boys that I know had similar surgery, and I just never heard about it. The only boys I know who have had urinary tract infections (a very small number) were circumcised.

So I sent him to his doctor, who told him in no uncertain terms, "It can't be coming from you. You're circumcised." No examination or sample or culture or anything necessary.

Ummm...yeah. I hope you educated that doctor about what you did that cleared up your infection?

My husband is very much circed (born in the early 60's--so its a tight one), and he suffered from recurrent yeast infections about 2 years ago. I questioned whether he could pass it to me, and he said the doctor said that he couldn't because it wasn't on his penis--it was in his crack. LOL. I was nervous about it...but I never did get a yeast infection from him.

Men like to keep their penises clean, especially if requested to do so by their partner and it's also incredibly easy to do so.

Might I also say here that circumcision does not necessarily make a penis clean and odor free? I don't have any experience with an intact penis ( ) , but I've told my husband that if he wants any particular activities...he needs to make sure he washes off right before.

Two of my co-workers were discussing how they have to pull back their circumcised sons' remaining foreskin every day (their sons are 18 months) so it doesn't re-adhere. I personally would feel uncomfortable doing that--I feel like it's his private part and not for me to cut off or pull back or mess with.

Nearly from birth my boys were VERY protective of their penises. I could barely wipe poo off of them during diaper changes--they would be batting my hand away! I thought it was so funny.

Haven't had a chance to read any of the other replies yet, but just wanted to mention that I have SO been in your shoes! We circumsized our first son, but after actually doing all of the circ research the 2nd time around, I just couldn't justify circ'ing my next baby boy.

One thing I was really worried about, and actually felt guilty about, was how to explain it to my older son. Why is he circ'd and not his brother. Also, how to explain to my youngest son why he ISN'T circ'd, but his daddy and brother ARE. Well, my youngest son is only 10 months old, but my 8 yr old has never once noticed that HE is circ'd and his brother is NOT! I was so surprised that he has never questioned it or noticed!

I am going through this same emotional heartbreak, though I have not had a child yet. Our babe is a boy and I have been going back and forth through the positives and negatives of both. I absolutely hate to bring my child ANY pain, especially if it is unnecessary... but even in this anti-circ board most of the posts are desperate mothers worried about forced retraction, uti's, nameless boils and cysts, bleeding and infections. All uncirc'd boys, and I can't help but question myself on the morality of the possibility of putting my child through years of pain until he is old enough to tell me that he would like a circumsision... Not saying that every uncirc'd kid has problems. But the number of stories is overwhelming for this first time mom.

Those worries are all a direct result of living in a circ culture where we have intact ignorant caregivers that are giving out inaccurate info and parents are often the first generation returning to intactness. The normality of intactness won't come without people making the decision to leave their children as they were born. Circing because we live in a circ culture just perpetuates the problem.

I am going through this same emotional heartbreak, though I have not had a child yet. Our babe is a boy and I have been going back and forth through the positives and negatives of both. I absolutely hate to bring my child ANY pain, especially if it is unnecessary... but even in this anti-circ board most of the posts are desperate mothers worried about forced retraction, uti's, nameless boils and cysts, bleeding and infections. All uncirc'd boys, and I can't help but question myself on the morality of the possibility of putting my child through years of pain until he is old enough to tell me that he would like a circumsision... Not saying that every uncirc'd kid has problems. But the number of stories is overwhelming for this first time mom.

I hardly ever visit this part of MDC. I have one son, and he is intact. He has not had any problems at all whatsoever with his penis (he's almost 4). I think there are a lot of parents on this board with intact sons who've never had an issue and don't come around here for that very reason. I truly hope you don't take your son's choice from him based on the posts on this particular forum.

I absolutely hate to bring my child ANY pain, especially if it is unnecessary... but even in this anti-circ board most of the posts are desperate mothers worried about forced retraction, uti's, nameless boils and cysts, bleeding and infections. All uncirc'd boys, and I can't help but question myself on the morality of the possibility of putting my child through years of pain until he is old enough to tell me that he would like a circumsision... Not saying that every uncirc'd kid has problems. But the number of stories is overwhelming for this first time mom.

I wanted to point out here that I've noticed many of the desperate mother posts in this forum are from brand new MDC members, people who were probably led here by a friend or a random internet search for what could be going on with their sons. These aren't women who have had the time to look through all the resources here and pick the brains of the very knowledgeable men and women who post in this forum. Some of these women have been told very scary or unhelpful things by medical professionals, and have found this forum in a last-ditch effort to prevent what they suspect is an unnecessary surgery. Really, it's the lucky ones who find this forum.

With pretty much any other problem your child may have, you can ask your family, friends, or pediatrician. Who can you ask in this country IRL when you're worried about a possible problem with an intact son? You can ask men who are almost all circed, women who have little to no experience with foreskin, or a doctor who was likely given a very inadequate education on care and function of the foreskin. I completely understand when you say you feel overwhelmed by the number of scary stories on this forum, but please realize this forum is one of the few places you can go to get this kind of information. You're ahead of the game already because you know you can always come here if you have any questions at all.

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Originally Posted by AFWife

I thought about this in the shower...if I hadn't had a mom that breastfed me until 14mo the BFing forum would have scared me off because it's full of moms asking for advice about infection and pain and cracks and AAAHHHH...

I KNOW! I have many friends and family members who are currently or have successfully breastfed. I'm 100% committed to breastfeeding this little one on the way, and will do whatever I can to make it work. However, all it takes is 5 minutes of looking around on that forum and I seriously start to fear for my boobs and our future bf relationship.

Boy or girl, I'm not one bit worried about this baby's foreskin. When left alone, it's just not an inherently problematic body part. I'll worry much more about this baby's (and my own!) appendix, gallbladder, teeth, etc., which are all way more likely to cause problems that will warrant their removal.

You feel bad about what happened with your first son, once you understood more what circumcision entailed first hand.

As far as 'problems' I think a lot of times problems are blamed on being intact that aren't necessary so. My husband is intact and has not had a single problem, my son is intact without problems. I don't think circumcision is a legitimate 'prophylactic' procedure.

when he came back hiccuping from the crying I felt bad. When the dressing came off and I SAW the raw wound I broke down and sobbed. He has 2 skin bridges (one in the exact same place as DH oddly enough) and I've never mentioned it to a medical person because I don't want them to go "Oh, well, we'll just cut that" or something.

My mindset is currently: IF it needs to be done later it can be...and usually WITH anesthetic. I can't undo it after it's already done.

Just go back and read what you wrote, your own words.

I'll explain my thought process, but I can't say I was really on the fence:

He was born with it, why remove it? It isn't necessary. It causes pain. I have no reason to circumcise. I've know intact men without any problems (including my husband). I know my FIL's circumcision caused problems that needed surgery later (I don't know the details exactly but that is why my husband didn't get circumcised as a baby).

Honestly I couldn't even watch a circumcision when I was a nursing student. I cried without even seeing it. If I can't handle watching, there is no way I would have that done to my son.

If you leave an intact child alone (NO retraction), problems with the foreskin are very very rare. UTIs are rare, but easily treated with antibiotics. Phimosis isn't common and can't be diagnosed till after puberty and can be treated with steroid cream. There really isn't much to worry about, I mean...nature wouldn't screw this up. Either God got the design spot on or natural selection weeded out any poor penis designs long ago. Men in the UK certainly aren't dropping like flies because they are intact.

Meanwhile, 1 in 3 circs result in complications.

Beyond all that, it's your son's penis. I think everyone should be able to decide what they want to do with their own bodies unless there is some dire medical need for surgery during childhood. I know it's hard when you already have one circumcised child, but circing the 2nd one won't fix the first.

IME INTACT is easier and cleaner than cut. I've been a nanny and DCP for years before and after becoming a mom. All the boys I ever took care of were cut and it was my idea of normal. When I got pg with my oldest, who is 8, I didn't even consider not circing him. But I was confronted on another message board and decided I at least owed it to my child to research it, as I did everything else about birth and babies. I didn't want to though, cause I was afraid of what I might find and tbh, I thought intact would be gross. But I am so thankful I learned the truth on time. All it took was one video to turn me into anti circ, I told my dh no way in hell would I do that to our son, and after watching the video, he agreed. When my son was born I found him to be beautiful and whole, I never realized just how raw and injured all the boys actually seemed that I had babysat. At every diaper change you had to move their cut foreskins because stuff always got trapped in them. With my son, it was just wipe it off like a finger. I have 2 boys now, both intact, and have never had any problems at all.

Research shows that infants have less capacity to deal with pain than adults or older children do. Not to mention, when an adult it circ'd, he is put right under and given all the painkillers he needs afterwards. Babies are given no such humane treatment, they cut them as if they were unfeeling beings- awake and afraid, and send them on their way w/o a bit of pain relief for afterwards, then they have to sit in a diaper of their own urine day in and day out while they are still raw and healing. No question in my mind infant circ is far worse than adult, even if they can't remember it.

Circumcision removes a shocking amount of length. My nephew that is circ'd appears to have almost no penis, just a little nub, while my ds is about 3-4 times longer. I don't understand how our culture can find this acceptable.

My son's penis is his, I have to right to allow a cosmetic surgery upon it.

I would never want my children to think that they must conform in order to be accepted. Yet people always seem to bring up the alleged locker room scenario. If that were to happen to my son, I would except him to turn it around and say something to the affect of "dude why are you checking out my stuff!?" etc.

For many years north america has perpetuated the myth that intact is dirty and must be retracted to keep it clean from infancy. This "medical advice" is bunk and is the cause for many circs that "had" to be done later due to the retraction causing small tears or adhesions- scars basically. Then of course, any trouble w/ an itact penis meant immediate circ, when they could have tried steroid creams first. But ignorance prevails. All you have to do is look at the circ rates after infancy in European countries where circ is not routine, they're intact and they know how to care for themselves, thus their adult circ rate is quite low...

I found this thread when searching for another topic, but thought I would chime in to say that my DS is now 6, intact and has never had an infection. All of the boys around his age that we are close friends with (I can count 6 boys off the top of my head) are intact and 1 of them had an infection 1 time. It was uncomfortable for maybe a day until the antibiotics kicked in, but cleared up quickly.

even in this anti-circ board most of the posts are desperate mothers worried about forced retraction, uti's, nameless boils and cysts, bleeding and infections. All uncirc'd boys, and I can't help but question myself on the morality of the possibility of putting my child through years of pain until he is old enough to tell me that he would like a circumsision... Not saying that every uncirc'd kid has problems. But the number of stories is overwhelming for this first time mom.

Hello, I just wanted to chime in and leave my couple of cents. I am European, live in Europe and don't know anybody who is circed. Apparently my DH has an English friend who was circed when he was 20 because of phimosis, but that is the only case of actual phimosis I have ever heard of. And here (Norway) doctors don't even circ for phimosis - they just cut a small slit to allow retraction.

I have always been surprised by all the questions about suspected foreskin problems on MDC, because I never ever hear about any here, where I have known loads of mothers with sons for over 20 years! (My eldest son is 22 - never had any problems with his foreskin, of course!) I am assuming that it must be because many people in the US lack knowledge and experience with normal penises. So that a slightly red little tip or suspected pain in a toddler is interpreted as a problem, or that somebody has actually retracted and caused some damage.

There is nothing strange or difficult about having an intact son, there is nothing to worry about, just leave it alone.

UTIs are really rare in boys - none of mine has ever had one - and it doesn't have anything to do with the foreskin anyway.

I do realize that it is easy for me to say, living in a culture where it isn't an issue at all, but I really hope you will leave all your future sons intact.