Re: Shocking news!

Originally Posted by DavidBond007

i wonder what the fragrance he stole that was to die for

It was Joop!

While this is horrible, questions come to mind. For example, why did the other three guards not restrain their fellow guard? Are they charged with complicity? Were any of the guards injured in the scuffle?

While the article presents a horrible picture, I am not sure it is sufficiently complete.

Re: Shocking news!

Originally Posted by scentsitivity

It was Joop!

While this is horrible, questions come to mind. For example, why did the other three guards not restrain their fellow guard? Are they charged with complicity? Were any of the guards injured in the scuffle?

While the article presents a horrible picture, I am not sure it is sufficiently complete.

Re: Shocking news!

This is clearly a creature who enjoys a uniform and the little bit of power it gives him. He is a vile squalid sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth who should go down for life!!!!!

I believe the term is deindividualism which basically means that, in a state of anonymity people are more likely to do more extreme radical actions. The guard also did have a uniform which adds furthur to the anonymity and feeling less of his own identity. Often times feeling the need to conform to listen to authority as well. Also possibly the guard rationalized his actions by dehumanizing thieves and therefore felt justified in his actions. According to Philip Zimbardo's famous Standford prison experiment, ALL people are capable of becoming "evil" based on his experiment which caused a group of smart, standard standford students to become sadistic prison guards and torture and abuse other peers of their same age. It is not so much ALWAYS due to dispositional attributions within an individual but sometimes due to the situational attribution. However, most of society today seems to make the fundamental attribution error and commonly blame the disposition. Just a thought, for all I know he really could be a "sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth" haha

Re: Shocking news!

Originally Posted by Slushiex3

I believe the term is deindividualism which basically means that, in a state of anonymity people are more likely to do more extreme radical actions. The guard also did have a uniform which adds furthur to the anonymity and feeling less of his own identity. Often times feeling the need to conform to listen to authority as well. Also possibly the guard rationalized his actions by dehumanizing thieves and therefore felt justified in his actions. According to Philip Zimbardo's famous Standford prison experiment, ALL people are capable of becoming "evil" based on his experiment which caused a group of smart, standard standford students to become sadistic prison guards and torture and abuse other peers of their same age. It is not so much ALWAYS due to dispositional attributions within an individual but sometimes due to the situational attribution. However, most of society today seems to make the fundamental attribution error and commonly blame the disposition. Just a thought, for all I know he really could be a "sadistic fascist piece of subhuman filth" haha

Youtube Ted talks - Zimbardo does an interesting presentation all about that. basically stating that context/situational factors are more/as important then disposition or what's learned.

Re: Shocking news!

I'm appalled. People are paying £35 for Joop!? What's the world coming to...

As for the guard. Excessive force? Yes, but it might not be out of malice. Security guards are paid to use their strength prevent people stealing and making trouble. Wise judgment and careful thinking are not job requirements to be a mall cop; there's no guarantee the guard was the sharpest melon baller in the kitchenware shop, if you catch my meaning. He could have just been doing what he thought of as his job.

Re: Shocking news!

Originally Posted by Sugandaraja

I'm appalled. People are paying £35 for Joop!? What's the world coming to...

As for the guard. Excessive force? Yes, but it might not be out of malice. Security guards are paid to use their strength prevent people stealing and making trouble. Wise judgment and careful thinking are not job requirements to be a mall cop; there's no guarantee the guard was the sharpest melon baller in the kitchenware shop, if you catch my meaning. He could have just been doing what he thought of as his job.

Exactly. It's like these idiots who commit crimes and then get tased and have a heart attack and then their family tries to sue the police for murder-- despite the fact that they were high on cocaine, pcp, etc, and had a history of heart problems...Or situations of air rage where somebody freaks out on an airplane and has to be restrained and then dies--same thing. It's like the Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on any time somebody attacks a cop with a knife and gets filled with lead-- you always see a bunch of know-it-alls saying "well, they could have shot him in the leg" or something. Come on.

None of us were there-- I doubt the security guard tried to kill him, he could have had health issues--also, I believe the article stated that the thief tried to physically resist being apprehended. It's sad that the guy died-- no doubt about it-- but if it's in anyway "tragic", it's only tragic that he only considered his own life worth $35. The thief was only a victim of his own poor judgment. I'm anything but heartless, but people have to be responsible for their own behavior. Nobody thinks we should live in the times of the Bloody Code, but seriously, criminals shouldn't expect the red carpet either.

Re: Shocking news!

I think that everyone needs to take a moment and take a deep breath .... I think it was a case of accidental death as opposed to heavy handed cold blooded murder . No it should have never happened , but then again it wouldnt have had the bottle of perfume not been stolen in the first place ...

.... Its not like his children were starving and he stole food to feed them with .

Re: Shocking news!

So it seems even the manager was clueless about inappropriate ways of restraining. Did that guard have any actual, proper training, I wonder? Or was he just hired muscle?

If objecting verbally wasn't enough to save this man's life, what should bystanders ideally have done?
I asked myself what I hope I would think to do if I saw this happening, and I've concluded that calling 911 as soon as it became apparent that the guard was choking the man would be the best action, although help might still not have arrived quickly enough.

Re: Shocking news!

This is very unspeakable act!Kill someone for stealing a perfume !Can't bear the thought of it!
My sympathy to the victim's family !!!

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Re: Shocking news!

JamieB wrote: The Irish poet Brendan Behan said it best, and sometimes it seems sadly true: “There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”

Wow, a lot of hate on these boards today. This thread no longer has anything to do with fragrance, does it? I think the actions of one civilian department store security guard in England do not represent the law enforcement profession. Police are asked not to stereotype, why is ok to stereotype the police? Perhaps I'm ultra sensitive because I am cop, or because my father, a cop, gave his life protecting someone whose name he didn't even know. Jaime, spend a day with me--an hour--answering 911 calls. You may encounter a few people whose lives are not made more miserable by my presence.

Re: Shocking news!

JamieB wrote: The Irish poet Brendan Behan said it best, and sometimes it seems sadly true: “There is no human situation so miserable that it cannot be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”

Wow, a lot of hate on these boards today. This thread no longer has anything to do with fragrance, does it? I think the actions of one civilian department store security guard in England do not represent the law enforcement profession. Police are asked not to stereotype, why is ok to stereotype the police? Perhaps I'm ultra sensitive because I am cop, or because my father, a cop, gave his life protecting someone whose name he didn't even know. Jaime, spend a day with me--an hour--answering 911 calls. You may encounter a few people whose lives are not made more miserable by my presence.

Yes, & it was a security guard who killed the guy, not a cop! lt was a cop who tried to revive him, unfortunately too late. You boys in blue do a great job in very difficult circumstances & l for one am glad you're there.

​​"What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

Re: Shocking news!

Originally Posted by teardrop

Yes, & it was a security guard who killed the guy, not a cop! lt was a cop who tried to revive him, unfortunately too late. You boys in blue do a great job in very difficult circumstances & l for one am glad you're there.

Re: Shocking news!

@ MikeNY, I've been thinking about this incident and am wondering what the best action would be for a civilian who saw something like this happening. At first I thought, "call 911" but as the police were already on their way, this wouldn't have helped.

Re: Shocking news!

Originally Posted by 30 Roses

@ MikeNY, I've been thinking about this incident and am wondering what the best action would be for a civilian who saw something like this happening. At first I thought, "call 911" but as the police were already on their way, this wouldn't have helped.

What say you?

This is a tough one. The security guard is clearly not playing with a full deck and was a threat to everyone there. Apparently his partners tried to intervene unsuccessfully. Could the bystanders have assisted the others and pulled him off? Possibly, but not without risk of getting injured or killed themselves. I feel that one should weigh the totality of the circumstances and act accordingly while considering their own safety. But the victim was clearly dying and one might have had to put their own safety on the line to help another. Purely a judgement call which needed to be made in an instant and not having been there, I can not judge anyone's actions.

And thanks to indie guy, sugarandaja, teardrop, and gmmcnair!

Can we go back to talking about fragrances now? I come here to escape all this!

Re: Shocking news!

I hope this is not too much off-topic, because I don't want to argue the point. I accept that others may disagree with me, no problem there.

It was not my intention to offend, I was merely quoting something that came into my head. I have known many fine policemen in my day, especially back in my New York days. I probably posted rashly and ill-advisedly. I hope anyone who felt offended at my remark will be kind enough to recognize it wasn't meant to be hurtful, and be gracious enough to forgive me.

But I do wish that people would get my name right; It's JaimeB, not JamieB. The name is Spanish, not English, but it is my name. Thank you for at least trying...

Last edited by JaimeB; 25th September 2010 at 12:51 AM.

Yr good bud,

JaimeB

"Why spend life seeking that which does not satisfy? Why remain a slave, when freedom waits? Let your life shine; illumine the world with your truth!"