Q (In progress) of course, talk about Dick Durbin's comments and
the plans -- the suggestions by some Republicans to close Guantanamo
Bay.

The Vice President of the United States, Dick Cheney, with us this
morning. And, Mr. Vice President, thanks for being with us.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good morning, Steve. Good to talk to you.

Q Good to have you with us this morning. Earlier this week, we
had a caller ask about CAFTA, and we decided to go right to the top, or
at least right next to the top to find out about this free trade
agreement. We've got some technical difficulties, I guess -- the Vice
President can't hear us.

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Q Thank you. Appreciate your being with us, by the way, and
have enjoyed visiting with you in the past. CAFTA, this Central
American Free Trade Agreement is one of the things that some of our
listeners are asking about. Ten years ago we passed NAFTA and a lot of
promises of what it would do in terms of growing business, growing
trade for America -- a lot of the good news about NAFTA hasn't got out
there. And it's going to be difficult, I think, for us to sell CAFTA
unless folks really understand what NAFTA has done.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right, well, NAFTA has been a -- I think a
great success in the fact of the matter in terms of promoting trade
throughout the hemisphere. And I think it has gotten a bum rap in
terms of the notion somehow it's been a negative. Employment, for
example, since they signed NAFTA in the U.S. rose over 20 million
jobs. Average unemployment rate has been 5.1 percent for the 10 years
since we signed NAFTA. It was 6.4 percent the 10 years before we
signed NAFTA. Industrial production rose by 35 percent since we've
signed NAFTA. So there's a series of indications there, frankly, that
it has, indeed, improved our overall economic situation.

I think you can find cases out there, I'm sure, where individual
businesses may have been hurt, but the overall impact on the U.S.
economy, I think, has been very positive.

Q One of the things that NAFTA opened up and that CAFTA will do
as well is access for our services, banking industry, insurance
industry, the legal community. We often think in terms of trade with
stuff, raw materials and manufactured goods, but opening up the service
markets in Canada, in Mexico -- with GATT into Europe and with CAFTA
into these markets, that service industry is also important.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's right. In fact, once we knock down
those barriers and encourage the movement not only in goods but, as you
say, in services, as well, too, it's an enormous benefit for
everybody. And American companies have benefited directly from that,
as well as a lot of our business. You look agriculture, for example.
Each day that -- NAFTA parties today conduct about $2 billion in
three-way trade between the U.S., Canada and Mexico. They got $2
billion a year -- a day in trade just as a result of that agreement.

Q Yes, and when we look at extending these agreements into
Central America, we're being told is that we don't have access to those
markets while our borders are already open --about 80 percent of the
goods coming from CAFTA, just as was the case with NAFTA from Mexico
and Canada, our borders were open to their products; it's their borders
that are closed to us. And that's really what's being opened up with
these trade agreements.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's right, Steve. You cited the right
number, about 80 percent of their stuff is coming in right now
tariff-free. What this agreement will do is get us access to those
markets on the same terms and conditions. And remember these are small
South -- Central American countries -- we think about Nicaragua, Costa
Rica, Honduras, and so forth. But all together, those five Central
American countries, plus the Dominican Republic which is included here,
as well, too, come to about 44 million people. It's a pretty good
sized market out there. It's bigger than our total exports to Russia,
India, and Indonesia combined. So it's an important market for us.
Agriculture especially will benefit from this in terms of our
opportunities to trade and sell our products down there.

There's another element, though, that's very important, I think, we
need to focus on. And that's to remember that these are all relatively
young democracies in Central America. It wasn't that many years ago
when we had major problems of Communist insurgencies, for example, in
Nicaragua and El Salvador and a situation down there that was pretty
bleak from the standpoint of their overall economic capabilities, and
frankly also subject to subversion from Cuba and elsewhere. That's all
changed now. They've got democratically elected governments. Their
Presidents have put their political reputations on the line to get this
agreement approved. Having them integrated with the U.S. economy
enhances not only our economic circumstances, but also enhances our
security circumstances in the hemisphere.

Q Critics of the agreement and critics of NAFTA say that it also
imposes a loss of our sovereignty because suddenly you've got world
courts, you've got other trade partners dictating some of our
environmental laws, some of our labor laws. Now, arguably, we're also
imposing some of our views on labor laws and environmental laws on
these countries, as well. But what do you say to those who say we're
losing our sovereignty, we're letting others set rules for America?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, I don't buy that at all. The fact of the
matter is the overall operations will be, I think, of significant
benefit. And any time we can enhance the economic activity and the
exchanges back and forth across borders, I think American workers can
compete, and American businesses can compete anyplace in the world as
long as we got a level playing field out there. And what these
agreements are all about basically is getting that level playing field,
eliminating tariff and sometimes and non-tariff barriers that stand in
the way of increased commerce.

Q Another of the arguments in favor of NAFTA and for CAFTA, as
well, is that by growing these economies, it will help slow the flood
of illegals across the borders that come here looking for jobs and
opportunities. If their middle class, if their economic opportunities
grow, they've got more of an incentive to stay home. Obviously, with
NAFTA -- and a lot of critics of the administration -- it seems that
flood of illegals has continued. Will CAFTA do anything to help that,
and will the administration focus some on that?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: We think it will, Steve. The best estimates
-- I just heard these numbers just yesterday -- out of the illegal
aliens coming across our southern borders now, roughly half come from
Mexico, but about a quarter of them -- 27 percent, 28 percent -- are
estimated to come from Central America and cross the southern border
with Mexico, travel all across Mexico and then cross our border to get
into the United States. What motivates them is primarily economic
concerns. They want to be able to earn some money so they can feed
their families. And they come to the United States because of the --
the opportunities exist here that don't exist down there.

Well, one of the ways we deal with that -- obviously, we got to do
everything we can to secure our borders, but we also need to enhance
their opportunities back in their home areas. I think they'd prefer to
say home with their families and live down there if they could make a
decent living. And when we make it possible for those economies down
there to expand, that helps significantly reduce the pressures, I
think, in terms of the illegal immigration that we otherwise have to
deal with.

Q You mentioned securing our borders, and it's not just a matter
of economics and protecting our borders from a cultural, economic
standpoint anymore, national security is an issue, as well. And
obviously, in this war on terrorism this week, we've had a lot of
attention paid to what's going on in Guantanamo Bay with some of the
terrorist thugs who have conspired against us. Dick Durbin, as you
know, has made some comments comparing our U.S. soldiers to Nazis.
Yesterday, Scott McClellan, the White House Spokesman, called his
comments "reprehensible." How do you take Senator Durbin's comments?
What's your response to his comments?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, this is, I'm sure, a family program,
Steve. I have to be careful what I say. (Laughter.) I thought Durbin
was totally out of line. I watched some of his comments on the floor
of the United States Senate. For him to make those comparisons was one
of the more egregious things I'd ever heard uttered on the floor of the
United States Senate. But he -- the fact of the matter is the
situation at Guantanamo is being very well handled by our military.
Remember what's happened here. We've -- during the course of our
operations in Afghanistan and then the global war on terror, we have
picked up a number of people we call detainees. These are terrorists.
These are bomb-makers. These are terrorist facilitators, members of al
Qaeda, members of the Taliban from Afghanistan. We have them down at
Guantanamo, where they're well treated. They're well housed. They're
well fed. Their religious needs and desires are catered to. They're
not being tortured or mistreated, but they are a major source of
intelligence for us. Plus, we need to keep them off the streets.

Now, a couple hundred have already been released -- that is, been
through a review process. And once it's determined that they don't
constitute a threat to the United States or have no further
intelligence value, then we've, in fact, returned them to their country
of origin. In some cases, about 10 cases, some of them have then gone
back into the battle against our guys. We've had two or three that I
know of specifically by name that ended up back on the battlefield in
Afghanistan where they were killed by U.S. or Afghan forces.

Now, the key here to remember is that the 520 we've got down there,
these are -- hard-core terrorists is the only way to describe them.
They're unlawful combatants. They're out to kill Americans. And if
you put them back on the streets, that's exactly what they'll do. All
the hand wringing that we've heard from Durbin and others strikes me as
totally inappropriate. This is a wide open facility down there. There
have been -- over a thousand reporters have visited it. The
International Committee of the Red Cross can visit it 24 hours a day at
their discretion. We've had 11 senators and some 77 House members have
been down there to visit the facility. There are no secrets in terms
of how it's being operated, and it is being operated in a decent and
humane manner. But we absolutely need to have a facility like that to
house some very violent and evil people.

Q So no plans to close it?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, sir. The President wants us to make sure
we do a continuous review of the cases down there, and that we're
continually updating our policies and so forth. But if we didn't have
a place like this, we'd have to create one.

Q We appreciate your time, Vice President Dick Cheney. And are
you surprised by the way the Democrats are not condemning Durbin's
comments?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think they're swallowing hard. (Laughter.)
We'll see what happens. I watched yesterday. Of course, he had to get
back on the floor yesterday to try to defend himself. But I just -- it
was so far over the top that I'm just appalled that anybody who serves
in the United States Senate would even think those thoughts.

Q Vice President Cheney. We appreciate the time with you, look
forward to seeing you again, and appreciate your spending some time
with us this morning.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right, Steve. Say hello to everybody in
Tennessee.

Q Will do it. Come down and see us. We don't have quite as
good trout fishing as you do out in Wyoming, but we're happy to have
you come down and wet a line sometime.