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Kenneth Faried hasn't even been playing good these first two games...The scouting reports are out, and teams are recognizing that he is an undersized PF, and no matter how hard he works--he still has a disadvantage with certain PFs.

I do agree that Karl does need to let the players discover new things, and stop trying to keep them limited to certain fundamentals that he see fits. At the same time, these players are not producing--even when trying to add new facets to their game.

These first two games, have beenn on the players. They need to make them damn wide open shots, and make FTs...Once they do that--than i'll worry about rotations.

so you're telling me the much tighter & better rotation Coach rolled out today didnt have the greatest impact on how much better we played?

Brave Kid, I don't understand why you continue to insist that GK give JHam some time in the rotation. I don't even see the rationale in it. Yes the Nuggets need more perimeter scoring but on the laundry list of needs at the moment it is at the very bottom.

In order for JHam to start seeing significant time he would have to replace Corey Brewer in the rotation and before training camp started I too thought that was what was going to happen until the preseason started where Corey clearly had a better preseason run than JHam and earned his spot in the rotation for now.

There will be an opportunity for JHam as he probably will get the start at the 2 or the 3 when one of the starters goes down with an injury because GK likes to keep his rotations intact and doesn't like to move rotation players into the starting lineup. But when and if that happens he has to take advantage and show Karl that he needs to play him.

I for one would like to see Anthony Randolph see some time at power forward but I think the aforementioned situation has to occur for that to happen.

In the last two games...Nuggets as a team--are 11-44 from 3 pt range.......Guess what Brewer has of that 11-44? ...He's 4-12 right now. ...You can have your opinion...But the FACT remains, that Brewer has been our best 3 pt shooter the last two games <<<<Does that provide any indication on how bad our team is shooting right now? I mean really....Is that GK fault? Or is the team just ****ing cold right now? Because those statistics are pathetic!!

And thats the thingggg....NUGGETS WERE MOUNTING A COMEBACK.....A COMEBACK!???? How did they get in the position to have "mount a comeback" in the first place? Ohhhhh I get it...It was the high turnover ratio and disrupted play from our players missing wide open friggin shots! C'mon mannnnnn

Koufus wasn't guarding Lebron...He was guarding Big Baby Davis and got owned by him. I remember seeing Koufus box out big baby, and try to grab a rebound--but Big Baby jumped right behind him and grabbed the offensive rebound.........was the GK fault? Possibly, because he coulda had McGee out there grabbin the rebound--but it's hard depending on a player who's putting -9 on the +/- chart. Koufus was just un-athletic enough, and McGee was just too low IQ'd.

The players are playing bad...Statistics prove it.

I believe that Brewer took more three pointers than anyone else in the first two games. Moreover, the majority of his threes are uncontested and wide open.

He's never been a shooter his entire career the notion that he's going to suddenly become a sharpshooter is absolute folly and nothing but wishful thinking.

And Jordan Hamilton has barely played this season. I mean I'm pretty sure Brewer has missed more threes than Hamilton has attempted shots.

I didn't say Kofous was guarding Lebron. I was providing you with an example of a bad match up that a player would lose to demonstrate the fact that the coach can put players in situations in which they're unlikely to succeed.

Since that example sailed right over your head, here's another one: What would happen if George Karl gave Ty Lawson the assignment of guarding Dwight Howard? Howard would destroy Lawson, right? Would it be the Lawson's fault that he can't guard a guy who is over a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier than him, or the coaches fault for creating that match up?

Wilson Chandler is not a center and should not ever be playing center.

The Nuggets were down because of poor play and George Karl compounded the problem with idiotic rotations and over reliance on Corey Brewer. Who's poor shooting and idiotic decisions on defense cost the team. Last night against the Heat his idiotic decisions on defense cost the Nuggets the game. Cheating toward Lebron and leaving the guy who has made more threes than anyone in NBA history wide open...and then compounding that mistake by fouling him too?

There's no upside to playing Brewer over Hamilton. Having Hamilton on such a short leash and or not playing is just going to mess with his confidence. The only argument you could have made was Brewer's defense and veteran experience. But he's made horrible decisions on defense and committed rookie like fouls in consecutive games, so that argument is out the window.

SMH...I dont see anything in here that has convinced me that Karl's rotations are to blame for these two losses...His rotations are so ****ed up right now, because everybody is playing like ****--and he's trying to find a rotation that will work! Whatever tho...A team is not going to win shooting 11-44 from 3 PT range, and 23-38 from the FT line--no matter who the coach is!

If you believe that, please make a compelling argument for Wilson Chandler at center.

That lineup to start the fourth against Orlando completely killed any shot Denver had at winning.

But since you want to absolve Karl for any blame for his rotations and put it all on the players, you must see some logic in playing a 6'8 SF/PF at center that everyone else is missing. Enlighten me.

Brave Kid, I don't understand why you continue to insist that GK give JHam some time in the rotation. I don't even see the rationale in it. Yes the Nuggets need more perimeter scoring but on the laundry list of needs at the moment it is at the very bottom.

In order for JHam to start seeing significant time he would have to replace Corey Brewer in the rotation and before training camp started I too thought that was what was going to happen until the preseason started where Corey clearly had a better preseason run than JHam and earned his spot in the rotation for now.

There will be an opportunity for JHam as he probably will get the start at the 2 or the 3 when one of the starters goes down with an injury because GK likes to keep his rotations intact and doesn't like to move rotation players into the starting lineup. But when and if that happens he has to take advantage and show Karl that he needs to play him.

I for one would like to see Anthony Randolph see some time at power forward but I think the aforementioned situation has to occur for that to happen.

What on Earth are you talking about? The blue print for beating the Nuggets is to pack the paint and dare them to shoot. The lack of a shooter is one of, if not the Nuggets biggest needs. The Nuggets would be 3-0 if they had a legit shooter taking all of the wide open 3's that Brewer has mostly missed.

Corey Brewer did have a good preseason. But in the regular season he's missed wide open three after wide open three and made some terrible mistakes on defense. Most notably last night when he left Ray Allen wide open behind the arc and then fouled him too.

"Jordan Hamilton has had 2 3 point attempts and he missed both, obviously that's enough to judge he's not helping us much so I'm not going to play him."

One more time for you...My main point--Corey Brewer was our best 3 pt shooter the first two games--Jordan Hamilton is still unproven, yet I have a feeling he can be our best << I stated that clearly in one of my earlier posts, that "J. Ham is the closest, but he hasnt drained any outside perimeter jumpers either." ...and in the 16 minutes that you keep referrin to, HE HASN'T....Neither has any other player! The team is off...I'm not perpetuating **** with Karl's logic for not playin him. In the 16 minutes, he didnt establish himself as a 3 pt threat, so thats the visual friggin evidence! Regardless on the limited time, it STILL STANDS. I'm not saying J. Ham wont become it, he just hasnt!!! He HASNT!

so you're telling me the much tighter & better rotation Coach rolled out today didnt have the greatest impact on how much better we played?

mY ARGUMENTS revolve around the first two losses...That was my motivation to come in this thread. Last night the nuggets played well...the coaching definitely could be said to have made mistakes last night. Definitely.

Read the last sentence of that post of mines you just quoted! Enough said.

I believe that Brewer took more three pointers than anyone else in the first two games. Moreover, the majority of his threes are uncontested and wide open.

He's never been a shooter his entire career the notion that he's going to suddenly become a sharpshooter is absolute folly and nothing but wishful thinking.

And Jordan Hamilton has barely played this season. I mean I'm pretty sure Brewer has missed more threes than Hamilton has attempted shots.

I didn't say Kofous was guarding Lebron. I was providing you with an example of a bad match up that a player would lose to demonstrate the fact that the coach can put players in situations in which they're unlikely to succeed.

Since that example sailed right over your head, here's another one: What would happen if George Karl gave Ty Lawson the assignment of guarding Dwight Howard? Howard would destroy Lawson, right? Would it be the Lawson's fault that he can't guard a guy who is over a foot taller and a hundred pounds heavier than him, or the coaches fault for creating that match up?

Wilson Chandler is not a center and should not ever be playing center.

The Nuggets were down because of poor play and George Karl compounded the problem with idiotic rotations and over reliance on Corey Brewer. Who's poor shooting and idiotic decisions on defense cost the team. Last night against the Heat his idiotic decisions on defense cost the Nuggets the game. Cheating toward Lebron and leaving the guy who has made more threes than anyone in NBA history wide open...and then compounding that mistake by fouling him too?

There's no upside to playing Brewer over Hamilton. Having Hamilton on such a short leash and or not playing is just going to mess with his confidence. The only argument you could have made was Brewer's defense and veteran experience. But he's made horrible decisions on defense and committed rookie like fouls in consecutive games, so that argument is out the window.

Of course he took majority of threes on the team, because he's the only one who drained them! I already posted the stastistics my man, and as much as it hurts me to say after the **** *** ******** last night from Corey Brewer, he was our best shooter the first two gamnes.

And in no way did I imply that Corey Brewer is going to "become a sharpshooter" ..I dare you to point at any of my posts and show me. I said he was our best shooter the first two games, and how him being our best shooter--speaks volumes for how bad our team is shooting...those FIRST 2 GAMES! So please miss me with the "wishful thinking" accusations, because I dont hold Corey Brewer to no reliable regard for becoming such.

And your example didn't go over my head...The fact remains, we had Koufus out there who matched the length of the other Center--and still wasn't doin ****. ..And then in your example you tyalk Koufus being unable to guard a quicker, faster Lebron <<<==The same thing goes Dwight guarding Lawson! Yeah Dwight might be able to destroy Lawson offensively, but I guarantee Lawson will cause problems by being able to run right by Dwight Howard, and cause chaotic help defenses--leaving guys wide open. So the point of putting smaller players on taller players is to have that balance of advantage and disadvantage. Guess what? It's worked for the Nuggets in the past! It's a gamble that G.K. took and it failed! It's succeeded in the past, and failed other times--**** HAPPENS! We were already down, and playing catchup the whole game anyways!

I'm not going to bother including last nights game into this conversation, because anybody who's in-tuned with the posts in the forum--KNOWS, how much that **** disappointed me last night. My energy is being invested in the first two games of the season--which this thread is built on the basis of. I felt it was just unnecessary to just jump on G.K., because I felt the players wewre overwhlemingly more to blame themseleves--for the terrible gameplay.

If you believe that, please make a compelling argument for Wilson Chandler at center.

That lineup to start the fourth against Orlando completely killed any shot Denver had at winning.

But since you want to absolve Karl for any blame for his rotations and put it all on the players, you must see some logic in playing a 6'8 SF/PF at center that everyone else is missing. Enlighten me.

We were already losing the game! You keep putting emphasis on this, because its the only point you can make about criticizing Karl's rotation--acting like this was the main reason we lost. I dont got to enlighten you about anything, any nuggets fan who was watched games extensively, has seen that smaller lineups have worked in the past for us--and haven't--it's a gamble. Sometimes we can out run teams on the run and gun style with a smaller lineup, sometimes we can't! It's a gamble. Lmao @ killed any shot of winning...We were already losing! Give a damn about momentum or not.

mY ARGUMENTS revolve around the first two losses...That was my motivation to come in this thread. Last night the nuggets played well...the coaching definitely could be said to have made mistakes last night. Definitely.

Read the last sentence of that post of mines you just quoted! Enough said.

fair enough

Faried @ C last night with gallo at pf was a really smart back court to employ last night, and I definitely give Coach credit for that as I think that line-up was really effective and would love to see it some more (as opposed to Kosta (or Moz when he's back) eating up 30 min. lol)

One more time for you...My main point--Corey Brewer was our best 3 pt shooter the first two games--Jordan Hamilton is still unproven, yet I have a feeling he can be our best << I stated that clearly in one of my earlier posts, that "J. Ham is the closest, but he hasnt drained any outside perimeter jumpers either." ...and in the 16 minutes that you keep referrin to, HE HASN'T....Neither has any other player! The team is off...I'm not perpetuating **** with Karl's logic for not playin him. In the 16 minutes, he didnt establish himself as a 3 pt threat, so thats the visual friggin evidence! Regardless on the limited time, it STILL STANDS. I'm not saying J. Ham wont become it, he just hasnt!!! He HASNT!

Once again....

Jordan hamilton has not had a legitimate shot to prove himself as a 3 point threat. Thus making the statement of "not establishing himself as one" completely flawed when the entire Nuggets organization knows he is the best perimeter shooter. 2 perimeter shots that he did take and ended up missing..doesn't mean jack squat. It's called a small sample size. You can't base anything off of those shots.

Being unproven= accurate because of his lack of experience in the league

"He hasn't established himself as a 3 point threat"= due to Karl's ridiculous restrain on him. 16 total minutes and 2 shots from the perimeter is nothing. Absolutely nothing to give any indication that he can't help.

Jordan hamilton has not had a legitimate shot to prove himself as a 3 point threat. Thus making the statement of "not establishing himself as one" completely flawed when the entire Nuggets organization knows he is the best perimeter shooter. 2 perimeter shots that he did take and ended up missing..doesn't mean jack squat. It's called a small sample size. You can't base anything off of those shots.

Being unproven= accurate because of his lack of experience in the league

"He hasn't established himself as a 3 point threat"= due to Karl's ridiculous restrain on him. 16 total minutes and 2 shots from the perimeter is nothing. Absolutely nothing to give any indication that he can't help.

I barely just said the word "ESTABLISH" for the first time in this thread in my last post to you--and you tryin hard to get semantic on it, when my entire point i've been making that he is "unproven". Yet, me saying the word "establish" is flawed--when I used it after the fact that you accused my logic as flawed!

And yes, I stand by it ....He hasn't established himself in the game as 3pt threat yet, and he hasn't established himself as bein a bad streaky shooter either. He hasn't established ****, thats why this whole convo is wasted, because the beginning my J. Ham point was a "small sample size" of the overall point I was making. Stop acting like i'm criticizing J. Ham, i'm pointing out that the whole team shot garbage!!! I never said that J. Ham can't help. I can look at the stats and see what it is--forget trying to add the other dynamics, and what ifs.

Brave Kid, I don't understand why you continue to insist that GK give JHam some time in the rotation. I don't even see the rationale in it. Yes the Nuggets need more perimeter scoring but on the laundry list of needs at the moment it is at the very bottom.

In order for JHam to start seeing significant time he would have to replace Corey Brewer in the rotation and before training camp started I too thought that was what was going to happen until the preseason started where Corey clearly had a better preseason run than JHam and earned his spot in the rotation for now.

There will be an opportunity for JHam as he probably will get the start at the 2 or the 3 when one of the starters goes down with an injury because GK likes to keep his rotations intact and doesn't like to move rotation players into the starting lineup. But when and if that happens he has to take advantage and show Karl that he needs to play him.

Well, it's not just me that insists J-ham to play, Nuggets nation is also wondering that as well and I don't understand why he shouldn't be playing. What reason is there for him not to play?

Our #1 struggle is defense...then it's shooting. If you take a look at our 3 point shooting %, you'll see why.

The thing I don't get is that the Nuggets know J-Ham is the best shooter on the team...so why not give him more shots?? Why does he have to under a microscope ever time he takes an ill-advised shot?

I don't even see the rationale in it. Yes the Nuggets need more perimeter scoring but on the laundry list of needs at the moment it is at the very bottom.

This is highly debatable. The nuggets have been struggling with perimeter scoring for over a year now.

Originally Posted by Go_NUGGETS

I barely just said the word "ESTABLISH" for the first time in this thread in my last post to you--and you tryin hard to get semantic on it, when my entire point i've been making that he is "unproven". Yet, me saying the word "establish" is flawed--when I used it after the fact that you accused my logic as flawed!

And yes, I stand by it ....He hasn't established himself in the game as 3pt threat yet, and he hasn't established himself as bein a bad streaky shooter either. He hasn't established ****, thats why this whole convo is wasted, because the beginning my J. Ham point was a "small sample size" of the overall point I was making. Stop acting like i'm criticizing J. Ham, i'm pointing out that the whole team shot garbage!!! I never said that J. Ham can't help. I can look at the stats and see what it is--forget trying to add the other dynamics, and what ifs.

My main point is on Karl. That's it. There is no "tryin hard to get semantic," no "criticizing J-Ham" my main point is that Karl hasn't given him a legitimate shot. That's it. You say he's not proven, okay, got it. Moving on.

So if the summer league, training camp, all the preseason games and the start that he got in the season opener wasn't enough burn to convince GK to play JHam more, what would be in your estimation?

Getting what has to be about $200 million dollars in future payroll to stop underperforming and live up to their lofty expectations has to be GK's number 1 concern not whether the 11th player on the team is getting his fair shot.

And I've been quoted a couple of times so far on this thread but I am sure I wrote that I too thought JHam was going to be in the rotation as well before the start of the season. I actually have said that Corey Brewer and Kosta Koufus were key players in the Nuggets stretch run to the playoff's last season that were going to be the odd men out this season with all the burgeoning talent on the team. I just was not that surprised or upset when I was wrong.