In all fairness Jikan, I entered this forum looking for the differences between theravaden and mahayana buddhism and have found none, just different practicioners. I am personally opposed to having two different forums to discuss the teachings and I think the buddha would have been dissapointed to see this as well.

lowlydog wrote:Hi Astus, I'm hoping that this clip from his book will answer your questions.

Says the same thing as the short quote.

1. Those who believe that their truth is the real truth are wrong.2. The truth is universal.3. The universal truth is what Tolle thinks is the truth.4. Tolle's truth is some sort of essentialism that has not been specified in the quotes.

What is obvious, however, is that Tolle believes that the Hindu's atman is the same as buddha-nature, something that is not accepted in Buddhism.

"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

In all fairness Jikan, I entered this forum looking for the differences between theravaden and mahayana buddhism and have found none, just different practicioners. I am personally opposed to having two different forums to discuss the teachings and I think the buddha would have been dissapointed to see this as well.

To end suffering is my motivation.

That's a good motivation. Whose suffering?

The main question I put to the board (I don't mean to put lowlydog on the spot here) is still open: how does Tolle teach the motivation to practice? Is there anything like a bodhisattva's intention in Tolle's doctrine?

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How exactly can you seperate the lineage from what it delivers? What the lineage delivers cannot exist without the lineage (deliverer), and the lineage would not exist if it did not have something to deliver.

How exactly can you seperate the lineage from what it delivers? What the lineage delivers cannot exist without the lineage (deliverer), and the lineage would not exist if it did not have something to deliver.

Heh, ok. it seems If this were true tradition itself would exist in a permanent state, and it would never change. And yet, every lineage or tradition of anything ever is in a constant state of flux. Why would the yanas even be called "yana" if this was the case, there would be no reason for conventional terms like those, there would be no need for vehicles that take one to the truth of a thing, because the teaching would be the thing itself. If lineage or tradition is of the exact same stuff as what it imparts, why does it ever change, and why is it even needed to have different vehicles to reach the same truth of a thing?

So perhaps my basic answer would be that because the truth of a thing (and not just some ultimate truth, even conventional ones) is difficult to come to, it requires alot of play with falsity and/or artifice to grasped..that is the entire purpose of a 'tradition' of any kind. All the stuff about transcending form after dwelling in form that one finds in Zen and martial arts for instance, is an example of the concept. It's a conventional concept, but as such it's a fine description of the function of lineage or tradition IMO.

Maybe you can explain to me where you believe my thinking is wrong here, so i'm completely positive on what you are asking, and what you are trying to demonstrate to me, other than just to demonstrate (as some of my countrymen might say) that you can be "more-righterer" than me

The main question I put to the board (I don't mean to put lowlydog on the spot here) is still open: how does Tolle teach the motivation to practice? Is there anything like a bodhisattva's intention in Tolle's doctrine?

There is suffering.

When the wisdom of this noble truth has arisen then one understands suffering.

To end suffering is the motivation to practice, in the beginning this may be of a selfish nature but as one progresses on the path the view of suffering changes as does the view of self.

lowlydog wrote:Hi Astus, I'm hoping that this clip from his book will answer your questions.

Says the same thing as the short quote.

1. Those who believe that their truth is the real truth are wrong.2. The truth is universal.3. The universal truth is what Tolle thinks is the truth.4. Tolle's truth is some sort of essentialism that has not been specified in the quotes.

What is obvious, however, is that Tolle believes that the Hindu's atman is the same as buddha-nature, something that is not accepted in Buddhism.

1. At the ultimate level Truth cannot be believed only experienced.2. Truth is God, the law of nature is truth.3. Tolle experiences truth, one cannot think truth.4. Read his books.

Depends on how you interpret words, words have different meanings to different people.

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Heh, ok. it seems If this were true tradition itself would exist in a permanent state, and it would never change. And yet, every lineage or tradition of anything ever is in a constant state of flux. Why would the yanas even be called "yana" if this was the case, there would be no reason for conventional terms like those, there would be no need for vehicles that take one to the truth of a thing, because the teaching would be the thing itself. If lineage or tradition is of the exact same stuff as what it imparts, why does it ever change, and why is it even needed to have different vehicles to reach the same truth of a thing?

This is a straw man, and an extremely flimsy one at that.

...what you are trying to demonstrate to me, other than just to demonstrate (as some of my countrymen might say) that you can be "more-righterer" than me.

I'm not trying to demonstrate anything to you, nor am I trying to be "more righterer", I am just pointing out the fact that lineages exist because they are vehicles for the disemination of practices and practices exist because they have a lineage to perpetuate them. I don't see what could possibly be causing you confusion here??? If there was no lineage of practitioners how would the practice get to you? If there was no practice then what would the lineage be a lineage of?

Never under estimate the power of the truth, A meditator soon realizes the difference between apparent and actual truth: that what appears solid, hard, and impenetrable at the gross level is actually nothing but wavelets and vibrations at the subtler level.

Never under estimate the power of the truth, A meditator soon realizes the difference between apparent and actual truth: that what appears solid, hard, and impenetrable at the gross level is actually nothing but wavelets and vibrations at the subtler level.