NYPD Detective: We need to repeal gun-free school zones

Former NYPD Detective John Baeza says that it’s important to mourn, but we need to take action to see that schools are made safer. And to do it he says we need to repeal legislation making schools gun-free zones so that teachers can properly defend themselves:

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Murders and terrorists! If you were one and wanted to make the most impact where would that be? A place that is not protected where you could go for the best chance for success. Even a locked school didn’t help. This guy wanted in to complete his mayhem. He succeeded better than most have in the past and will be “noticed” for it even in death. It’s sick not to protect our little ones.

BeyondPolls

Locked doors do not equal armed school employees. Where were the men on campus? Why did the women have to face the killer alone?
“It’s sick not to protect our little ones.” I totally agree. That’s why the government isn’t fit to take care of kids anymore and why we should outlaw abortion.

What difference would it have made! You want dead men instead of dead women?

BeyondPolls

That’s not what I said at all. Whatever happened to having men around to protect women? If the teachers didn’t want to carry guns, then there should have at least been some officers or schools officials around.

The school administration and principal thought their “security” system was going to protect them and the principal and students died because of that false belief.I imagine the principal had just enough time to realize that with the security door laying on her floor in shards before Lanza shot her.People who fear guns more than armed sociopaths killed those kids.As long as liberal schools and city government persist in mandating their contrived Gun Free Zones they will be slaughter pens where active shooters will strike without a fear of armed response.Sacrificing our treasure for the liberal agenda will continue until these foolish and deadly zones are voided and repealed.

BeyondPolls

Absolutely. Public school zones are liberalism on display: they are Constitution-free zones. No free speech, no religious rights, no gun rights.

Nukeman60

Wow, someone who actually will stand up and speak truth to power on TV. He will get a lot of flack for this comment from the liberal media, but it’s exactly what we need. Gun-free zones are just free-shooting zones. It has to stop.

Walking into a bullet is a lot different when you are shooting your own at the bad guy. They have a tendancy to be cowards and will only attack that which is defenseless.

It’s only common sense. Let’s get some common sense here.

crosshr

you are right here nuke, although I’m glad he did. we need more to speak up publicly

Orangeone

Everyone that opposes our 2nd Amendment needs to have a sign in their yards stating “Gun Free Home”. Let’s see how well that works out for them.

Nukeman60

Or, as the author of this article stated – “Attention Criminals, the people in this establishment have been disarmed for your convenience.”

I totally agree Nuke. I fear teachers will start to carry guns and crazy students will get their hands on them and really start the mass murders. My gosh, what if there had been guns in that school in the hands of people without training and proper instincts to use them. If people step back and look at the training law enforcement and the military go through with handgun use as well as their other training it might start to make sense.

Nukeman60

We need to take a lesson from both Israel and Switzerland. They train their people to be efficient in gun usage and then expect them to be armed. Training and proper handling naturally has to come first. You can’t just give guns to people who don’t know how to use them.

That would be the lefties solution because they always do things backwards.

Orangeone

My preference is for teachers to be trained to teach the truth and equip students will skills, ethics, morals and discipline and leave defense to law enforcement and our retired military.

Nukeman60

I don’t disagree with that. It’s an excellent idea. My preference would be to have the entire country armed and trained. Our future is trending in such a way that will require that eventually anyway.

Orangeone

Not progressive liberals please……only those of us that pass the sanity test….same for voting rights

Nukeman60

Heh. You got me there.

Orangeone

This is what our great discussion has resulted in and I thank you kindly for that. We have both shared and learned on this fantastic forum.
And I’ll give you this one. Colleges and universities I view differently with professors and instructors carrying and concealing. It’s the K-12 that I would prefer our retired NG vets.

in most cases, the police are less trained than individuals in lets say Michigan who have to be trained to use their weapons before they are free to conceal and carry…some of you put too much trust in police, not to mention the costs of having police on school campus with schools struggling with funding….I find one of your comments to be completely preposterous though…the one where those kids get their hands on a teachers weapon and suddenly start committing mass murders….REALLY? Probably much easier to get a weapon from maybe the streets, vs being able to just get one from a teacher…..ya know, one would think in a learning environment, teachers would be offering firearm safety again…well, liberals won’t stand for that, because they would rather get shot at waiting for the police to show up to take the report and call the coroner

warpmine

I like that but armed teachers would have a side benefit of respect from the thug students at inner city schools where currently they’re defenseless against all kinds of assaults from these thugs. Respect and common sense would return.

Steve: You can’t be serious when you say police in Michigan are less trained than people who are trained to conceal & carry in Michigan. I was in the Vietnam era and I am a vet. I was trained very well and the police are also trained very well with weapons before they become police officers. I have had a C.P.L or C.C.W what ever you want to call it and the training to me in 2012 is a complete joke. You may have issues with police officers but there training is far superior to getting your C.P.L from a gun shop or from a place that offers the training. You get 8 hours of training now a days, seven of it listening to a police officer or lawyer tell you how to keep you butt out of jail by doing the wrong thing, than may be just may be you will get shown how to use your weapon and shoot 60 to 100 rounds. That’s your training now you can conceal and carry a weapon. Is that training to you ?? You got to take it upon yourself to train, train with your weapon, read all the laws that you can and cannot do, what states can you carry in, where you can carry and not carry. I feel teachers should be able to have a weapon on them with the right training and I mean the right training,not what they offer you now.

Individuals have to make a commitment to become proficient with firearms,Law enforcement have no monopoly on training opportunities.Unless they are SEALS,they won’t get unlimited training time or ammo. The shooting at the Empire State Bldg this past year gave an object lesson in the quality of NYPD’s training.A state CHL course is only a starting point.Individuals bear the responsibility to commit to what it takes to become proficient.Armed self defense of yourself and those around you is not something to approach halfassed or halfcocked.Having a pistol doesn’t make you a proficient handgunner anymore than having a piano makes you a musician.As to teachers being armed? Until someone develops a foolproof method to catch sociopaths before they act,armed response by those attacked beats all hell out of any alternatives.

This school & district chose not to have security. CT chose to have severe gun restrictions. I’m glad I live in a school district that addressed this issue decades ago and has armed retired law enforcement. We have NEVER had a violent incident and we have the county Section 8 housing in my city.

THEyardpilot

Just tell the bad guys to wait till the cops get there. That should do it.,

Orangeone

That is not what I suggested. Read before you leap, you are acting like a liberal. I support retired law enforcement and retired vets hired and placed at every school in the district. You can rely on liberal teachers and we’ll continue with a 30-year practice.

serfer62

Orange, I think you’re a lemon
The detective distinctly specified armed teachers & other who qualify & NOT hired gunmen
Strange but a majority of America’s history of massares, 5 of them, happened with Obummer as POTUS. Further it seems he had more military dead in 3 years then Bush in 7 in Iraq,

well orange being in a city that they are closing several of the schools in town because of lack of $$$ who would pay the salary of the retired vets/law enforcement, btw I do honestly believe they retired for a reason and that would not be to go play hall monitor at the local school

Nukeman60

School closings due to lack of many has more to do with the waste the school administrations have caused and the debt the unions have created in unfunded liabilities. There would be plenty of money if it were run properly.

Closing the schools (or laying off police and teachers, releasing murderers from prison, etc) is always the first plan of choice for the liberals who don’t want to reduce the frivolous and unnecessary programs or cut their excessive salaries.

They didn’t hire armed guards to keep terrorists out of airline cockpits. They gave the pilots guns.

THEyardpilot

I read it. Perhaps you need to write more clearly. Evidently you like to leap a little yourself, since you decided to attack baselessly. Kinda lowers the value of what you say. I have no problem with hiring police or other experienced people. I DO have a problem with your claim that all teachers are liberal. Besides, even some liberal teachers might be inclined to protect the kids. Obviously you have no problem advocating that more taxes be raised to support your plan. Pretty elitest, really. FYI, I am quite well trained, military, police and private. Besides that, it would be easier for the shooter to identify your guard and shoot him first. Yes, it has happened. See the guy that shot his way through the metal detector at the Capitol Building in DC. Armed teachers and possibly parents on some occasions, would not be as obvious. The shooter would not know who is armed. That’s why sky marshals don’t wear uniforms. No doubt there are those who would prefer the officer to be in uniform because they think of it as a deterrent rather than as marking the first target. Some schools are quite large. How many do you intend to hire for this project?

They had a sheriffs deputy onsite at Columbine.He retreated after being shot at and the killers had free reign to kill unmolested.Meanwhile Jefferson Counties finest were behind cover gearwhored to the max,just like the CT. SWAT callout securing the area after the fact.Armed response by an adult staff or faculty member would have increased the survivability of those children.Putting the shooter on the defensive makes it rather difficult for them to look for more victims if they are taking fire.

Your comment doesn’t take into account the fact that it is generally madmen who commit these crimes, so all this truth, skills, ethics, morals will not come into the equation. How’s it working so far leaving all the defense to the police and (retired military?)? People have to get used to the idea they have to become more responsible for their own protection. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Don’t forget that. You can see how much damage can be done in a few minutes eh? That makes law enforcement “responders”, instead of “protectors”.

That would be my preference, too. Unfortunately, law enforcement is only there to respond to crimes. I really dislike the idea of our children going to school with armed guards. But, I think that a school staff trained for concealed carry (on their body) would answer both the need for protection and the children not feeling like they’re going to prison instead of school.

It has been proven scientifically that CHL is the only law to cut down murders and violent crime; the thugs go to property crimes where they are less likely to run into someone with a gun. In rural Texas there is little crime in general because crooks know everyone owns a gun and you don’t go on someone’s land. In town? A a whole lot different.

Law enforcement can only respond after a crime has been committed. The Newtown PD did respond, but it was too late. Suppose that the teachers and administrators were armed, this could have been prevented.

ever hear of a well organized militia… teach that in schools… get rid of the fear orangeone… the cops came AFTER THE KIDS WERE DEAD…

charles h

Orange, do you realize that the police have no legal requirement to defend you or anyone else? Teaching truth and equipping students with skills, ethics, morals, ect… and carrying a firearm for defense are not exclusive actions. A person can do both. And as for your statement about retired military…. they have no other rights than anyone else. If they carry a gun into a school for ANY reason, they go to jail…. How does that help the situation?

While i agree with your statement about what needs to be taught…..i do not agree with the defence part….police and military simply CANNOT be there to protect everyone, it is an impossibility. You must become responsible for your own protection, as do the teachers.

How did that work out here? You going to assign an officer to every class room? Wake up! I agree we need more truth in our schools, but that is not going to happen. I have a friend that FB me a photo, it read, “God why do you let so many bad things happen in my school”, the reply, “Because I am not allowed in your school”! You cannot teach ethics, morals, or truth, if you do not have good in your life. You will only have the bad. We are not even sure why we celebrate Christmas, the adults interviewed on the streets, thought it was just so we could be together as families. No mention of the birth of our savior. Wow, see what happens when you systematically remove God. These teachers need to be able to protect themselves so they protect the children. Train them, some will not take the training, but others will, and they at least will be there, going through the motions of their training. It must be an ongoing training, where they must qualify and pass all the screenings our law enforcement go through.

People wouldn’t be given guns willy nilly. Israeli teachers protect their students with high-powered weapons, and they are properly taught how to use them. In every country where there are MORE guns, there’s usually fewer gun crime – because the criminals know the law-abiding citizens will can their asses quickly.

There’s gun crime here in the USA because of all the gun-free zones… basically just murder buffet zones for criminals with the intent.

Orangeone

You cannot discriminate on who would have a gun, the unions would rip you apart and rightfully so. The US should be more like Israel but it isn’t. And I’m glad this country isn’t surrounded by terrorist nations.

There is gun crime in the US because of untreated mental illness, because of the political correctness, because of the entitlement attitude, because Hollywood and the media glorify violence, because of violent video games, and on and on. The gun free zones give them a target.

Well,…..we (do) have a terrorist nation to our South but “Washington” won’t admit it!

retiredvet74

Did you say that the United States of America should be more like Israel> Are you really that stupid. The americans in this country don’t want or need to be like any other country. Thats why we left the other countries to come here. Gun control in this country will be the end of this country. We need to raise our children from day 1 to respect, handle and safely fire a weapon when needed. Canada asked all their people
to hand in their guns and payed them for it. In 3 months the crime rate of home invasions, assaults, and armed robbery went up 68%. Come to my house, try to steal from me and you will leave in a body bag. When the criminals realize that you are armed, the don’t even try. We need more gun education, not control.

Nukeman60

Do you even read anything Orangeone says? She was not advocating for gun control and she believes in gun education. Don’t just read one sentence and then go off the cliff. Saying we need to be more like Israel refers to our need to protect our citizens. There will come a time (and soon) when there will be terrorist attacks in our streets. You can thank the porous southern border for that.

Thanks to President partyboy, we are weaker when it comes to our enemies and we have far too much infiltration into our country (just check out what’s going on in the Mosques around the country). We are a divided nation and there is a civil war on it’s way.

We agree there needs to be more gun education and less gun control.

Benie63

retired vet – you don’t know what you are talking about when you are referring to Canada. Canada did not ask all their people to hand in their guns – the government was trying to create a long gun registry. And as for your stats – 68% increase in home invasions, assaults and armed robbery – think you must have picked those out of the air to make your statement look good – no such stats like that here in Canada

Training should always accompany firearms ownership, but we have to be careful about mandating certain things. Those who decide to take on the responsibility will do best with it, and the gentleman in this video only suggested allowing them to have guns, not mandating it. Security measures for the guns can be taken to ensure their security. Just the presence of guns in a school could be a huge deterrent. If the principle simply had an M4 style AR-15 with a good lazer on it, he could easily keep it locked up in his office, and be able to put a lazer dot on the target without even aiming. The distances needed in a school are generally short, and this word work well. Obviously, being conscious of what is behind the target is critical as well. An AR might actually be too much power for a school defensive weapon. There are many variations of assault weapons that include rounds like the 9mm which have decent 100 yard abilities without too much penetration power. In such a case as this would be needed, at least the principle, or whoever, could divert the attention of a shooter, and possible end the violence.

Teachers carrying guns within the child population of a school wouldn’t be such a big deal at the elementary level, because a child being able to access the gun would not be an easy thing. Some of the inner city middle and high schools would have to be reconsidered for this kind of protection device in the school populations. The best idea for that is to shut down the public schools and allow the private sector to deal with it.

There is never going to be a perfect answer to this problem, but making schools a gun free zone is no answer at all.

THEyardpilot

Frangibles.

patriotcop

I am retired law enforcement. Yes, the police are basically responders to trouble. Officers would give anything to be present while a crime is being committed. The unfortunate reality is what we see daily. I personally would feel that my child was safer if certain faculty were armed and trained. Remember, it only took the shooter around three minutes to complete his mission. Even if an officer was in the parking lot, he or she would probablt not have gotten to him in time. Faculty could step into hall with proper cover and stopped the aggression.

The law enforcement I know gets into this service because they want to help prevent crime, but as you pointed out, that is not the reality of it. Your experience gives you special insight and I appreciate your comments. I would prefer our children do not go to school with armed guards. That says to me the armed guards are there to protect the students from each other, not necessarily outsiders. Unless there is an armed guard in every school wing, their presence wouldn’t be very effective. No, I believe school staff armed after going through a concealed-carry course could be our children’s best defense. The US morality has declined to such a state that we can no longer believe that we will be safe in our homes, and we sure can’t believe we will be safe in public. I lived in Killeen when the Luby’s massacre took place and as a direct result, private citizens are now allowed to conceal carry. In today’s world, there is no other option!

THEyardpilot

You don’t know if someone is carrying a gun unless they tell you. “Crazy students” get their own guns, that’s why you defend against them. Law enforcement people are not as highly trained as you seem to think, on the average, and they are generally not there when you need them. Anyone willing to defend the kids will learn how. Better some chance than none, which is what you offer.

Many smaller depts simply don’t have the money to buy a lot of training ammo.
They might only be able to qualify once a year on the range as compared to 2-3 times for larger, well funded depts.
When I was in the U.S. Coast Guard we qualified twice a year and on full auto on some weapons but “cost” was never an issue.
And yes, hiring Military Veterans would be a good solution as it would be prohibitively expensive to hire two P.O.’s for each school at $40-$60 per hour like many of them make. Again, small school districts simply couldn’t afford it.
And like it or not, some schools are simply going to have to train and arm their teachers.

Orangeone

This is where I think our statewide education tax dollars need to play a role. Our district is large enough to fund but the smaller ones cannot. We have state-share for education and that should include state-share for school security. It’s much better than paying the legal costs and settlements if there is an incident at a school, intentional or accidental.

Now that is a capitol idea.Get federal matching funds and give our returning military an alternative to the dire employment situation they find after separating from the service.They represent a substantial investment in the skills they have to serve and survive downrange.They are trained with small arms and many will have had combat lifesaving in basic training.Give them an opportunity to transition to other employment or education while earning a living to support themselves.

Not all union members are progressive liberals or thugs. I am a union member because of where I work. I could pay the dues and not be a member; however, I would rather have a voice if I am required to pay either way. Fortunately, I live in Alaska today and I was very fortunate to have my grandfather teach me about weapons, weapon safety, and hunting when I was 5 years old. I’ve practiced those teachings all my life and taught the same to my children. I think every school should have training.

KenInMontana

I think you are over-generalizing in regards to educators by covering them all with the blanket description of “progressive liberal union thugs teachers”. I had plenty of teachers during my school years that I would describe as conservative.

You do realize that the vast majority of LEOs are members of a union, do you not?

As to your suggestion of using retired veterans for such a job, allow me to point out (speaking as a veteran) the fact that our military forces are not trained in such tactics. We are trained to inflict maximum damage in minimum time (kill people and break their stuff), only specialized units in the SPECOPS community receive the training required to avoid the deaths of innocents in such scenarios, and these units are rare. Nor do the lion’s share of law enforcement officers receive the type of training to handle this type of an assignment, which is why departments employ SWAT teams, but even SWAT are “Responders”.

The placing in our schools, of armed security, requires that these individuals undergo a highly specialized training, along with a continual honing of that training. Frankly, it would be far easier to train “untrained civilians” to do this type of job, than to retrain Veterans or retired LEOs. In the case of Vets and LEOs you would have to “untrain” them first, in order to change the “mindset” that has been drilled into them.

Most military units have to pull some security duty,before the Army went to contracted private security on their bases, units rotated at manning the Access Control Points.If they can run security at the ACPs what mindset would have to change. The only thing I ever saw that didn’t jive was how each First Sgt. interpreted his orders as to the level of security checks to run on different classes of vehicles.

KenInMontana

Running security in a war zone is a completely different animal, compared to running security in a stateside civilian situation, unless of course you’re suggesting declaring martial law.
We’re talking about two completely different worlds here. Do you believe parents will tolerate TSA airport style checkpoints or Military checkpoints at elementary schools? There is a reason we have laws such as the Posse Comitatus Act, there are “little details” such as civil liberties and individual rights to consider, perhaps you overlooked those as well.

BTW, I have run security in both worlds, military and civilian, they are light years apart.

Nobody is advocating mandating all teachers to be armed.The true Lefties won’t carry because it would invalidate their principles as people of “conscience”. Responsible adults armed with knowledge,confidence in their skills and training and the responsible use of their weapon are the first and best line of defense.As it stands armed citizens are stripped of their rights and means to defend themselves and those in their charge precisely where and when they are needed the most.

not every union member is a thug most are as law abiding as anyone else in this country they organized long ago so that they could be paid a living wage, and now are verbally assaulted for it, I personally have no problems with the teachers getting training and then carrying concealed, out of sight, out of mind, so that the most precious commodity our nation has to offer is protected.

a good example of lack of training occured a few months ago in NY city. Two of NY’s finest fired at an individual who had just shot people as his office. They hit 9 innocent citizens in the process of killing the perp. To be clear all of the 9 people injured were hit by police bullets.

That same rationale was used to say that the theater in Aurora, CO was correct in not allowing concealed carry as innocent people would get caught in the cross-fire. I would rather 9 innocent people get hit, not necessarily killed, than 25 more being murdered.

Sorry, I accidentally omitted the behavior of the union teachers during the WI right-to-work hearings. Fine demonstration of the profession. Teachers are actively demonstrating their nasty behavior across this country for the world to see. Blame your colleagues for they are the ones responsible for the lack of respect.

Orangeone

Conceal and carry is with a target, not humans. Our military and law enforcement are properly trained for dangerous situations. Teachers need to stick to books and teaching the truth, not Allah is God!

MISigster

Yes, training is important. Remember that 3 bystanders were accidentaly shot by police as they were shooting at a murderer in NY several months ago.

Orangeone

And these are professionals continually train to operate in dangerous situations.

Marine1962

Orangeone stop and think what you just said…First of all to get a concealed carry permit you have to demonstrate that you are proficent to handle a firearm…Think about how many could have been saved if the teachers had been trained in the use of firearms and had been armed…

Orangeone

I am very familiar with the “training” for conceal and carry. It is a fixed target, not humans running around screaming in a surprise situation.
And how many more could be dead. Someone just pointed out the 3 innocent shot by trained law enforcement.
How about these teachers with guns? They are teaching (in TX) Allah is the Almighty God, the Boston Tea Party was an act of terrorism. Would you like them to have guns in your kids’ school? Not me.

Matt_SE

If these teachers were as crazy as you make out, we would’ve already heard of THEM pulling the triggers…so I think you’re overstating things a bit.
Also, you can do psych screening on the teachers to see which ones shouldn’t be carrying.

Falcon10driver

Another uneducated statement, the VICTIMS might be running around screaming, but time after time, and in my personal experience, the perpetrator walked calmly about the room, picking his targets, but making himself one for an AVERAGE shot with a CHL. My Grandmother could have shot this clown, and she wouldn’t have any regrets either. BTW, she was a TEACHER!

Everybody has the same opportunity to train the exact same way law enforcement does. And if the teachers have A gun it also means they have had training and classes to obtain that permit to carry..Do some reading and educate yourself A bit before you start making hysterical remarks like that !

Your so stupid, if you had lost a child in this shooting and you thought for one minute that an armed Teacher could have saved your child, you’d be singing a different tune.
to get a gun permit to carry, you have to take instructions on proper use. Maybe if you took the time to look into the NRA, you might better understand responsible use of a hand gun.

Police and military get VERY LITTLE training…. unless they go get training on their own. Look at the shooting at the Empire State building earlier. 9 out of the 10 victims were shot by police. Armed citizens like me and others have VASTLY more training and education in defensive handgun than those who are “trusted” and carry a gun for a living.

That’s a little too sweeping. I sure don’t train as often as I ought to, and I don’t have to meet minimum requirements like a typical cop. I doubt many of my gun totin’ neighbors train very often, either.

We should, but that’s another story.

Rocco11

you think the 15 year old shooter was training like a Navy Seal?

Nukeman60

Are we back to making him look like Trayvon? He was 20. Only his pictures that the LameStream put out showed him as 13.

I am ex military. and an Armed citizen. on a continual basis i help train other in the proper handling and use of weapons. from my experience as a combat arms soldier , i spent hours on combat course ranges and both defensive and offensive combat courses. (as to law enforcement, i have no idea. i guess it depends on the level.)

This is just false. First, I know a good number of the officers at my PD. They have to go through months of CLEET training *and then* they have to go through several more months of training as a probie on our force. Once they’ve actually passed all the training quals and are full-fledged officers, they are also required to train at the range (or other location of their choosing, with approval) regularly to keep up their skills.
Second, my son is a (former) Marine, and let me tell you they were out in the field once at month at a MINIMUM for training. This included weapons training, and they also had range training on various firearms about every other week. My son is quite proficient on a number of weapons, he carries a tactical knife with him (and he knows exactly how to use it), and he goes to a local range to shoot every chance he gets. Don’t tell me our police and military get very little training – I personally know very differently.
BTW, my carry permit is on its way to me as we speak. I will not be a sheep, nor am I a wolf.

then open up more Gun Ranges, offer more training support the sporting end of gun ownership. A gun used at a range in the hands of someone that has taken the time to train is not a bad thing. and I will bet cheeper than police investigations

here is a better idea than “I fear”, make the military MADITORY and everyone get a free college education after fufilling the 4 year military requirement. That way they learn ‘respect’ and obedience to the law and firearms training all in one…..cost effective education and a reality show in life that is full of truthisms….not B-…..

Orangeone

Someone posted earlier about what they do in Switzerland. You’ve got a great idea! And it should be required for all!

We shouldn’t make military service mandatory, because that would go against the grain of the constitution but if you provided the incentive that 4 years military automatically granted you 4 years of free college this would be a good thing as there would be a sharp increase in Americans who have been properly trained to use firearms and have sworn the oath to uphold and defend the constitution.

Gun control should mean knowing how to control and use a gun. Stop making stuff up. Who said anything about “untrained” or crazy students. Dangerous people should be under 24 hour supervision. I live in AZ and many of our husbands sons and grandsons are all licensed to care concealed weapons. And believe me, they are trained. “Oh my gosh, everyone would kill each other with all those untrained teachers and crazy students” is not going to happen with proper training and dangerous people identified treated. More gun control laws will do nothing to stop these horrors from happening. Even a crazy person who runs into a crowded place to kill a lot of people and knows that there are many with training in gun use will stop the fantasy before it gets anywhere will think twice.

Yes, they’ll need CHL training and special training for school (unions will want double overtime) but there is a huge difference between tactical weapon use and self defense…a huge difference.

Falcon10driver

How much training do you think that killer had? He wasn’t a professional, and if at least one of the adults there had been armed it would have been over and we wouldn’t be grieving over the loss of all these precious children and the adults who were slaughtered with the next victim waiting their turn to die. I’ve been in one of those situations, some nut job walked into a restaurant I was dining in and opened fire, I was just lucky he ran out of ammo before he got to me. To this day I will not sit in a restaurant with my back to the door, and I never again will be unarmed like that day. Had I been carrying then, I could have saved at least three or four lives, I will never be able to forget that.

The police never took a single shot. What good was their training. If one person had a gun they had a 50%chance to take out the shooter. with out a gun they had a 100% chance of nothing…

Dana King

You’re an idiot. Most cops do not shoot as well as the average citizen does. I hate to say it, but as a former military marksmanship instructor, who has gone to the range and shot with those in law enforcement, most who are required to carry a gun only shoot when they have to and aren’t proficient. Those who enjoy the sport of shooting tend to shoot often and generally shoot better than those who have to. That’s not an argument for opposing law enforcement but an argument for law abiding citizens.

I disagree in an active shooter has the goal of killing people. Teachers or others even less trained, do not. Rather have a less trained armed person on my side over shooters going unchallenged and nothing but sheep for the slaughter.

No you fear guns more than the sociopaths that use them.Teachers are no different than any other group.They submit to background checks before they can begin employment,those checks are no worse or better than the check given for state licensing for concealed weapon permits.The NRA provides defensive pistol courses and school districts can set certification standards and require regular training.You must assume that everyone shares your foolish and uninformed beliefs. Concealed carry is just that concealed and secure on the carrier’s person.Please educate yourself before making blanket statements about that which you demonstrate no knowledge. Why are armed teachers any more dangerous than any other professional group?Law enforcement and military personnel have no monopoly on training or any magical ability to handle weapons better than civilians.You should probably let others provide for security as you sound like a poor candidate for the mental aspects of armed self defense.Proper instincts?My Gosh! What if a teacher had actually put one between the shooter’s running lights?

The purpose would be to TRAIN those carrying guns in the school. Thus they would have the knowlage AND ability to defend the students, along with themselves. You can see what NOT having armed personal on school grounds, gun free zones, get you.

And before you start on the “If guns were banned it would be better” kick, it is NOT the gun that is the problem. Or Timothy McVeigh would not have killed 168 people and wounded many more with a bomb. Or 22 kids in China getting slashed by a knife wielding maniac. People who commit these crimes will continue to commit these crimes with whatever weapon is at hand, gun, knife, bomb, baseball bat, tire iron, etc.

The only problem with the sign would be some carzy a## liberal would complain about the sign.

RighteousCrow_JustCaws

John Lott made virtually the same statement on Levin’s excellent show Friday night. Trust Mark Levin to have the most pertinent guests to substantiate his most pertinent discourse.

BikerHoop

I have signs on my front and back doors that say “nothing in here worth dying for”… does that count?

Grandadave

What about arming schools with stun-guns like police use, to incapacitate the shooters until they can be coiffed, that would have saved lives at all shootings
at schools. Maybe not all but a lot of them could have been saved.

The knee-jerk reactions of talking heads, friends, and others is to “look at gun violence and gun control”.

I do not own a gun.

I wish that some teachers or administrators in that school had been armed.

Orangeone

So let’s play that out. The principal is armed. She is shot immediately. The gunman now has another loaded weapon. Teachers and principals need to focus on their job, education, and I don’t mean the liberal brainwashing. Schools need armed retired National Guard. Hire a vet & protect students with someone specifically trained to do so and trained to look for dangerous situations.

Nukeman60

Three handguns is no different than one gun and three magazines. The time it takes to reload a magazine is no different than the time it takes to pull another handgun out of your waistband. (he did fire 100 rounds as it was)

The opposite scenario is much more preferred. Instead of walking out in the hall unarmed and being killed execution style, she is well-trained in the usage of a handgun, approaches the scene properly, shoots back and the criminal either is shot himself or runs away in fear. Many lives could have been saved with one person having the training and capability to defend.

Edit: I should have also said I like your idea of a trained retired vet as a security guard. It is a simple solution to a complicated problem. The only downside is if the killer knows this and takes out the only guard by stealth, then your back to the same situation.

Orangeone

We don’t know that the principal and shrink knew there was a gunman. If they did, why didn’t they grab cell phones and call 911? No one with any sense in their head walks out in front of someone shooting.

There is a difference. Take Columbine with multiple shooters. More friends join in the shooting as more guns are found on school premises.

Each state and school district will have to approach this. I know in ours, we have NEVER had a gun in our schools with armed enforcement at the door. I would argue to the end that teachers are incompetent to carry firearms in a school filled with children and by doing so puts students at imminent risk. They already don’t keep order in classrooms, they intentionally close schools for their union protests, bully students with differing political views, sexually assault students, impregnate students and I could go on.

Nukeman60

My purpose is not to arm incompetent teachers with guns (or anybody who is incompetent, for that matter). Our entire country is, by and large, incompetent when it comes to guns. Gun owners far and wide will tell you what it takes to be trained, knowledgable, and effective with weapons. Everybody in ths country should be, including our children.

A responsible gun owner with a conceal-carry puts no one at risk. They are trained not to. I guess we are arguing apples and oranges here. The idea of an armed retired vet (or several) is a good one. We should pursue that then.

As to the Principal and shrink, I suspect they ran out in the hall because they weren’t trained in firearms. Had they been, they would have approached it differently (they certainly heard the gunshots prior to going in the hall). I wouldn’t do that in my own home. There is a set procedure you use when you suspect an intruder in your house. You don’t just go running out in the living room unawares.

Orangeone

We agree Nuke and the discussion has been very inciteful. I’m trained in fire arm use and do teach continuing ed but even I wouldn’t feel comfortable in front of a class packing. I was taught to shoot as a child and have recently gone back through training. I absolutely agree that children need to be trained and am grateful my father saw to it that I was.

Nukeman60

I like the conversation we have had on the subject. Too bad the libs that come here can’t have the same dialogue. Perhaps more would get accomplished.

Too bad, as well, that Congress can’t deal with each other like this. They might have a better approval rating than single digits. 🙂

Orangeone

We can hope by setting a good example. What’s the saying compromise is accomplished when both sides give up a little for the best solution?

Nukeman60

What? You mean compromise does not mean capitulation? Now I have to send another email to Boehner. I don’t think he got the memo.

Orangeone

LOL! And I said a little. That means people have to openly discuss so facts are on the table. Doesn’t sound like Congress to me 🙂

for decades people have pushed the guns are evil crap, so now way too many are scared to even look at a gun.
those that are smart enough to actually look into it and get some training realize how foolish the anti gun people are.
peoples cowardice due to media hype has led to a docile (as a whole) unprotected society.

PicklePlants

I read your exchange with Orangeone and would just add there is one more factor that would play out here. The gunman wouldn’t know who was armed and who was unarmed. I will concede that it may not have made a difference in this shooting, but it would in many others.

Nukeman60

Yeah, that’s a good point. The more confused a shooter is, the better. I’m not sure what the best solution is here, but the idea of well-trained retired vets is an excellent start.

As we move forward, we could trend more toward what Israel and Switzerland do. There are many situations that the Israelis have to deal with, due to their circumstances with the Arabs all around them, that we could learn from (eg, their airport security, the gun usage and training, their drills, etc).

We have a lot of work as this world of terror and turmoil gets closer and closer to our front doors.

It seems to me that because our H.S. has two security guards our students can feel safer from other students who might bring a gun to school. But what about outsiders who take out one of the security guards and the other one is across campus? That’s a lot of students and faculty that can be harmed before the other guard gets there.

i have to interject here. “The only downside is if the killer knows this and takes out the only guard by stealth, then your back to the same situation.” this killer shot out the glass in the security door and reached in and opened the door. (end of stealth option).

kjsheepdog

But this school didn’t have any armed personnel – guard, teachers, officers, retired vets, or otherwise – so he didn’t need a stealth option. Who was going to stop him? There was no barrier between him and hundreds of unarmed potential victims, so he didn’t have to be stealthy until a deterrent was removed – there was no deterrent to begin with.

keninil

You have to remember the school psychologist fired words at the kid like the govt and UN expect heroes to do, but somehow her words were overwhelmed by bullets!!

Orangeone

There is some news coming out that this kid had a row with the shrink. There is a motive, we just don’t know it yet. Given he was the son of someone at the school, he would have knowledge of guns onsite and may have used a bomb instead.

Many retired soldiers suffer from mental problems such as PTSD. I would personally feel much safer training and arming the teachers and staff at the schools instead of relying on shell-shocked commandos.

Not only are there more teachers available should the worst scenarios occur, but their occupations demonstrate a dedication to the protection of our children.

I would have more faith that local schoolteachers would properly defend my children than a stationed soldier. Even beyond the human level, it would require far fewer resources and have a much greater effectiveness to properly train schoolteachers that to hire outside mercenaries.

Orangeone

Given your reply, do you side with the Veterans Administration that they should take veterans guns away?
After watching the union teacher thuggery and brainwashing of children rapidly escalate under Barky Boy, I pray for kids everywhere. A union thug with a loaded weapon is more dangerous than Obama.

i’m the retired vet with PTSD, (50% rating by D.O.V.A.) it seems a lot of people don’t really have a clue what PTSD is really all about. for me the good: heightened awareness (hyper-vigilance), fast reflexes, i think about what could happen and how to deal with it in advance. my adrenalin response doesn’t red line (i don’t panic). the bad : emotional detachment, i live on around 4/5 hrs of sleep per night or less, nightmares, avoidance thoughts and actions. (i avoid things that trigger emotional response), shallow personal relationships (loyalty in place of emotional connection). i read something in another post, the term was “shell shocked commandos” in a way i find this amusing, as the term shell shock goes back a long way, long before i was active army. i guess what i’m trying to really say here is there are millions of veterans in this nation, some would be highly suitable as protectors (as we already know the ropes) and many of these veterans would willingly protect the children/citizens of this nation. we have risked our lives before, and in many cases for the same reason. P.S. @ 99stupid. when i joined the military, i swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution of this country. this goes far deeper to most Vets than you imagine. even us tired disabled vets would still stand and defend you and your kids. even with your prejudice towards us.

You don’t know that she is shot immediately if she is trained to use a weapon. In fact, it’s quite a risk to go up against an armed person who is trained to use it, especially in cases where children are at risk. We’ve already heard of one teacher putting herself at risk to save a child.

The hiring of ‘retired’ lawenforcement personnel is not alway practical or as economical as other solutions, but HAVING PERSONNEL IN THE SCHOOL IS THE CORRECT IDEA. Why do you think the Secret Service is ‘with’ the President? Reaction time to the issue!

Lets play that out. All vets have PTSD and aren’t allowed to have guns because at the first loud noise they flip out and start shooting everyone. Of course I don’t really believe that but I thought I’d paint all vets with a broad brush since you seem to be doing the same to teachers.

State police must to check you very well;
nobody with “bad” past gets the permit, you CANNOT go get the gun like a loaf a bread……libtards lie about that too.
Freaks know nobody will shoot back in a school….once a teacher got a gun from his car and stopped the mad man, but you do NOT read/hear about that in red MSM

I forgot my 3 cents about concealed carry – you need extra training, you are checked from Adam and Eve….even trafic tickets are checked…….it is next to impossible to get it in, say, Chgo.

Nukeman60

I agree with you, Joe, but you bring up a whole new can of worms that should be addressed. Teachers, who spend every day around our children, should always be properly evaluated. The idiotic teachers unions have caused all kinds of problems by forcing schools to hold on to subpar teachers. Only qualified professional people should be influencing our kids, if they are forced to be in public schools.

Orangeone

And now some want these idiots to have loaded guns in classrooms? That is frightening.

Nukeman60

Well, people that wear conceal-carry do have to be properly trained and responsible. That is the first step. Most liberals who hate guns don’t have a clue how to properly and safely handle a gun. That’s what scares them about guns.

Perhaps the teacher doesn’t have to be packin’, but if that teacher who put the kids in the closet and then was killed by the gunman, had been able to unlock a drawer in that closet to get a gun (that she had been trained to use), she may well be alive today.

When a gun-toting criminal can just walk around picking targets, like the one in the movie theater did, people are going to unnecessarily die. But when he confronts a well-armed, well-trained individual, he will lose every time.

I would put my faith in that well-trained, well-armed person when confronted by these types any day of the week.

Orangeone

Agree on conceal-carry. If they had access to long distance pepper spray / mace, it does alot of damage to a gunman and gives you time to run. Why weren’t their panic buttons in the school? Why didn’t someone pull the fire alarms? There is mass panic and only the highly trained will succeed.
Again, if loaded weapons are in a school, kids will get to them. We need to think beyond K-4. Think about Jr. High and High School. We had a terrible mass shooting at a school on a reservation. Kid took dad’s gun, many murdered.
Teachers are not trained well enough to teach let alone to defend others. This country has the funds available to have proper security in schools.

Orangeone

Joe, you and I agree. Too many teachers use their positions to brainwash, bully and terrorize students. Let’s think about Sandusky. How many more sex abuse victims would there be if he had a loaded weapon? What about that crazy black teacher that went off on the student that defended Romney? What would she have done with a loaded weapon?

Once again, I disagree with making the protectors visible. I especially disagree with having them being armed better than the average assailant: if the assassin takes out the guard first (probably a stealth attack), then he’s now better armed than he would’ve been otherwise.

That’s why he MUST be plainclothes dressed like a Painter – Electrician – Custodian –
BUT NOT in uniform

What an awful scenario this is becoming!

crosshr

A teacher and a gun ! What is not appropriate with securities with a gun.

Gun free zone take away the protection of gun ownership 2nd amendment meant to be. Bad people roam and prey on people and places they feel they can muscle through without resistance.

Watchman74

Once again it shows that only law abiding citizens obey the laws.

jrt1031

meanwhile its reported hillary cant testify on benghazi due to concussion…. this smells like another famous clinton lie….

Nukeman60

Arrrggg, I’m watching Indiana on CBS and they just broke in with an update about the guns used. They focused in on the ‘assault rifle’ he had (which I understand was hardly used) and the ‘other rifle’ he had in his car (which also wasn’t used). The report was dripping with “assault rifle ban” implications. Here we go.

Indiana, we have one of the most open gun laws in the country. We even honor other states.

Nukeman60

Yeah, it had nothing to do with the basketball team or the state they came from. It had a lot to do with the liberal propaganda station, CBS.

Orangeone

Having an armed retired National Guard member at every school is not a police state. I would rather see that then putting guns into the hands of progressive liberal union thug teachers. What the heck would happen if a child pulled a loaded gun from a teacher’s purse? Put trained people at schools. My high school has had armed for over 30 years.

snowshooze

I remember back in about ’71 I took my .22 single shot rifle to school for a refinishing workshop… cleaned her all up!

Orangeone

Really???? Time changes things doesn’t it?

bjohnson55

This guy has it absoluetly, spot on, 100% correct.

williamm

Birmingham hospital gunman identified as 38-year-old Jemison man

BIRMINGHAM, Alabama – Authorities have released the identity of a gunman who wounded three people including a Birmingham police officer at St. Vincent’s Hospital early today.

Birmingham police spokesman Sgt. Johnny Williams Jr. identified the man, who died from police gunfire, as Jason Letts, 38, of Jemison. Sources have told Al.com that Letts’ wife was a patient on the hospital’s 5th floor cardiac unit where the gun battle took place.

Letts, police said, shot an officer in the leg, and wounded two members of the hospital staff. He was apparently upset over his wife’s care. All three victims were taken to UAB Hospital and are expected to survive.

there IS someone intelligent in NYC. i was beginning 2 lose hope 4 that city. totally agree with him. gun-free zones only mean unarmed targets to those who are willing to kill for some trumped up reason.

colliemum

Been reading your comments on this and the Open thread – and I’ve come to the point where I agree with Orangeone’s proposal to hire armed veteran military or National Guard people for schools.
Her arguments against teachers packing carry weight, because it will take a generation at least before pupils actually respect teachers so that they don’t attack them, steal their bags – you know the stories.

I also think that having males in authority in the school grounds – those vets, armed – would help quite a few boys to recognise that there are different roles they can attain to. We all know how difficult that is when boys are only ever in contact with female authorities – and we know that this is one reason they drift into gang culture.

But obviously such vets can only be in schools if they stop being gun free zones.

Orangeone

You have such great insight into the additional benefits of role modeling and discipline colliemum.

How do schools in the UK protect students?

How about others from around the world? How do you protect students?

colliemum

AFAIK, inner city schools have very strict entry zones, with metal detector gates pupils must walk through, because the ‘weapon of choice’ here are knives. I think some may have security personnel, but that is of course unarmed, as our whole police forces are unarmed, with the exception of special armed squads.

Touch wood we’ve not had anything like these massacres here, if one disregards the knifings outside school grounds.

I know of gun massacres in German and Finnish schools, where pupils had access to their parents’ gun cabinets. I don’t know what the authorities have done over there, these massacres were a few years ago.
Then there was that massacre on that holiday island in Norway – but there again i don’t know if the authorities have armed security now.

The one thing you can be absolutely certain of is that the metro-leftie champagne socialists here and in Europe are suitably horrified and blame ‘American Gun Culture’ – until some bright spark over here thinks of blowing a school up. Wouldn’t be impossible, we do have school arson, but thankfully that happens during the school holidays.

It is a sad fact that Europeans, who generally don’t bother to learn anything about the American Constitution, have absolutely no understanding of what the Second Amendment means.
Even here in the UK many people are surprised when told about our Bill of Rights of 1689 and what it is that – like, the right to bear arms.
The left has managed to make history, especially British History, something to be ashamed of and to apologise for. So pupils ‘know’ about Hitler, but not about Wilberforce, and certainly nothing about how our Constitutional Monarchy came into being and how it works. Shameful.

Orangeone

Thank you sis for sharing such valuable information! Even here and even now, no one is mentioning the 303 children Jim Jones killed with kool-aid, the Oklahoma City bombing where 19 children died (not from guns), the 9/11/01 attacks that killed countless children in the towers, on the ground, in the planes used as the weapons.
Sad that in both of our countries, history is repeating itself because of poor education and denial and that citizens don’t understand the freedoms fought for that can be so easily lost because of a dictator.

colliemum

Indeed. Perhaps both your and my country suffer from the ‘it can’t happen here’ attitude, because we’re not like the Continentals – but the Germans, French, Spanish and Dutch, and especially the new Eastern European people should certainly remember what a dictatorship was like.

The funny thing is that they all think Switzerland is such a model democracy (which it is is, not least because it is tiny, with a tiny population), but never ever really talk about the fact that there’s at least one military assault gun in every Swiss household. The Swiss men, after their military service, have by law got to attend ‘reserve exercises’ of four weeks every couple of years, until age 55. So they know how to use those guns. And they do have these local clubs where they do target shooting and all that.
Not a word about ‘Swiss Gun Culture’ in the whole of Europe. Odd, isn’t it …

Orangeone

Again, wealth of information colliemum! I did not know that about Switzerland. I’m ashamed of Europe. Our countries fought against pure evil for those countries to be free and they have set themselves up and jumped off the Sharia cliff. This time no one will be available to save them from destruction.

I was chatting with my cousin in France today about the Connecticut murders (I choose not to say shootings because it focuses on the gun), and she said France does not have guns, but still a mean person went to a school and kidnapped a bunch of children. Crime is going to happen and it’s about being ready. Are we going to be reactionaries, or are we going to be prepared?

WhiteGuy2

As long as we have maniacs hell bent on killing, no one will ever be truly safe. Taking lawful guns away wont change that. It will in fact make everyone a sitting duck. If one or more of the faculty had a firearm, they could have stopped this.

Rocco11

As usual, Leftists have it ass backwards. The more guns out there, the better.

Orangeone

Only guns in the right hands.

Rocco11

You sound like Comrade Barack Hussein Onyango Soetoro Obama…

Orangeone

Afraid not! Would you like a convicted murderer, rapist, robber, jihad terrorist released on parole to have a loaded gun near your children? Me either.

Rocco11

If they shoot nutbags like this guy, sure…

Orangeone

You are why liberals want gun control.

Rocco11

I am why they’ll never get it it.

Orangeone

Your ego appears larger than Barky Boy’s. Careful, he doesn’t like to be upstaged.

Rocco11

There are 20,000 gun laws on the books now, how many more do you think we need Lefty?

Orangeone

Laughing all the way down the block. Where the heck did you get the notion that I want to ban guns or that I’m a liberal? I want laws enforced that restrict guns from criminals but you support murderers having weapons so I think you are a lawless loving individual.

Rocco11

Was this guy a criminal? How would “restricting guns from criminals” have helped in this case?

Orangeone

He may very well have been. Juvenile records are sealed. There is evidence that he had severe mental health issues. And that and his age disqualify gun purchase. CT is the 5th most restrictive gun control state. If a criminal wants a gun they will get one. If someone wants to commit mass murder they will find a way. You are the one okay with jihadists having guns, not me.

Rocco11

“He may very well have been.” LOL Strong case you have there.

Kordane

Liberals want gun control because Liberals want control over the individual in general. They don’t give a sod about victims of shootings; they just want control over the individual.

Individuals being free to carry guns is a threat to the Liberals’ agenda, since individuals will have the freedom to resist attempts to control the individual. This cannot be permitted in the Liberal worldview. The individual is something to be controlled, to have its neck held down by the boot of an all-powerful centralized authoritarian government.

Brunodarkhorse

They do have them. That’s why most people don’t want to be disarmed.

Orangeone

And that’s why I said guns in the right hands. Those above are the wrong hands.

Kordane

Whose hands are the right hands? An incredibly sloppy statement such as yours would permit gross violations of the individual rights, and that is something I cannot abide by.

Orangeone

cry me a river today.

Kordane

You don’t really care about individual rights violations, do you? More broadly, I’d estimate that you don’t even accept the validity of individual rights; you’d sooner spit upon and rip up the declaration of independence, if you got the chance.

Orangeone

You are exactly correct. Feel better?

Kordane

Then you’re a hypocrite for complaining about people being shot. To someone such as yourself, there is no wrong doing in shooting people / violating the individual rights of others; everything is permitted.

Orangeone

Why don’t you read my posts. My response to you was as sarcastic as your accusation.

Kordane

I wasn’t being sarcastic. I take these issues seriously, just as many others do here. I don’t see any sarcasm in your reply. For all I know, you’re a stinking liberal who pisses upon my country’s founding documents on a daily basis, just as I have seen many others Liberals do.

Orangeone

The US is your country! I was born and raised in this country and my family fought in both WW, Korea and Vietnam. You are insulting in your posts and are making wild assumptions.

Easy on the language please Kordane. Just to be clear to you and others, Orangeone is Not a liberal, she’s Not a guy, and she’s Not against the Constitution. Thanks.

Marridge

Finally some common sense.

Lastly we must gear up for the big battle. They cannot take our guns away from us, no way, no how, and they have a hell of a nerve saying much of anything when we have a porous Southern border through which armed criminals arrive every day.

snowshooze

Wow…
Words from my own mouth!
I have infant Daughters, and was thinking I would have to consider that the Teachers should be armed. If the Teachers cannot, then does not the Government become obligated to provide each of my Daughters an Armed Policeman?
I think all the Teachers should be trained beyond the basics and put in a bit of range time. Along with the Airline Pilots.
By the time my daughters go to school, they will probably already be familiar with the basics even though my stuff is locked up, they will know they are serious tools, not toys.

How about trickle-down lawlessness as a theory. The current resident of the nation’s highest office has been a poster-boy for thuggery, etc. The Kenyan has shown nothing but contempt for law abiding, hard working citizens of this great nation. Look, I realize that this is not about him, but, he will use this to attack our blessed constitution. No one
here to blame but the shooter, there is no way to make sense of it. One theory is as stupid as the next.

57thunderbird

I think a couple of ccw permits are in order.I agree detective.

68vnamvet

The Arabs were kidnapping and murdering school kids on their buses in Israel. Now armed soldier on all buses…no more trouble.
EVERY man in Switzerland is in the army and armed. Gun crime there? NOPE!
I live in Delaware County NY where almost everyone is armed. (47,000 carry permits)
Our Sheriff published an article that we were the safest county in NY.
They say we can’t afford to pay a full time policeman for every school.
I propose a volunteer system where our veterans will guard our school. Make two slots a day for five days and all we need is ten men each week. We DEFINITELY have the manpower and the will to fill ten slots a week for the entire year. How about it Sheriff?
Principal?

TimeForAnarchy

You touched on the issue, Sir (thank you for your service; I hope you came home in one piece). The Israeli’s have the will to do this: we don’t. When King Bloomie of NYC gets more attention that the real issue, we’re doomed.

68vnamvet

Thank you for the kind words. By the grace of God I did come home in one piece. I fought for my country in foreign lands and now I find I must fight again against enemies within. How in Heavens name can you defend yourself in NYC when Bloomberg won’t even let you have a large soda? I left NYC for upstate NY and NEVER looked back. Be safe my friend…Bob

TimeForAnarchy

You as well, Sir. Merry Christmas.

Orangeone

Thank you sir, I love you! I have been taking that position all day. And before I go further, thank you for your service!!!! I would like to see you compensated for serving the youth. Hire a vet and protect the youth is Win/Win!!!!!

68vnamvet

I love you too. I do not need to be compensated. I offered my life to my country once and I would proudly stand between a deranged maniac and our children today.
Thank you for your support.
bob

#5 on my Arizona Citizens Defense League card says “Always maintain control of your defensive tools”. Most unfortunately, the Principal did not do that and suffered a horrible end. If her legal weopons had been secured, her son could not get them. Having said that, we need to look at our degrading values and disrespect for what is right and true.

snokb04

What are you talking about? He wasn’t the principal’s son!!!!! His mom wasn’t even AT the school!!!!!! They found her elsewhere!!! There has been a parent that told police his mom was sometimes a substitute teacher, but her name wasn’t even on the roster and so far they haven’t found a connection between his mom and the school! Get your story straight!

Our public schools are death centers. They are death centers for the mind as they resemble a small box with no exits. They are death centers for the brain, because schools are pushing psych drugs on the kids, and as much as 1/3 of our children are put on them by the system. They are death centers for the body, because they are wide open to attacks, and make the perfect mass murder target. They are death centers for the spirit, because they deny creation, and teach a religion of science, and they are structured like prisons to control the body and the mind.

Public schools are the biggest tool being used by our human farmers.

Orangeone

And they put them on lockdown. WTHeck is up with that? Trap them inside. The OK plot included bombs.

That is so incredible reasonable. One person, maybe two, trained with a weapon and carrying it at schools. That would make me feel a lot better as a grandparent. .38 cal or .44 bulldog. something small, something powerful, Use hollow points, minimal load.

Orangeone

See 68NamVet’s comment above. He hits it on the head!

Hire a vet and protect the youth. Win/Win.

PAWatcher

Can’t see the liberals going for that idea……….they think our veterans are potential terrorists, I seem to recall a report by Napolitano to that effect, right up there with suvivalists on their list.

Orangeone

We can invite the libs to build their own schools 🙂

Matt_SE

I don’t agree with the retired veteran angle; such a person would stand out, and would be the first target for a would-be assassin. There should be a pool of pre-screened, qualified people (probably teachers, principals, etc.) available to carry. There should be two people designated to carry on a random, rotating basis. This creates uncertainty about who is carrying, and serves as a backup in the unlikely event that one of the two is compromised or incapacitated.

In place of the current “gun-free zone” signs, you put up one stating that there are (at least) two armed personnel on-site at all times.

Orangeone

Our armed law enforcement stands out and is a great deterrent! We have had no incidents in over 30 years. Retired vets is the best answer, trained not only in firearms but dangerous situations. The teachers’ job is to teach, principals is to administer. Neither are or should be in charge of protection from domestic terrorists.

Matt_SE

Deterrents don’t work against crazy or suicidal people, only lethal force does.

Making the armed person “visible” only serves to tell the assailant who to shoot first.

Orangeone

Not necessarily. Ours are not in uniform and rotate. Glad to know you believe armed teachers are more effective than armed law enforcement and armed veterans. I vote we reinstate the draft and send 100% of teachers to Syria to fight the terrorists.

Matt_SE

So you’re saying that the plainclothes officers are INDISTINGUISHABLE from the teachers? Even though they’re wandering aimlessly up and down the halls (instead of being in the classrooms) and might have their weapons visible?

Sounds pretty distinguishable to me.

Orangeone

Are you in our schools? I never said they wander aimlessly up and down the halls did I. They are an outstanding asset and we are lucky that our district made the right decision. long ago. Enjoy your teachers with guns.

Finally, an intelligent police officer. Most of them just start screaming “BAN GUNS” and that sint the answer. Bad people will always find a way to get firearms. The only way to stop them is for an intelligent person to have a gun handy at the right time to stop them.

I agree. This officer knows that the police are out numbered by the criminals. They can’t be everywhere at once. The only sure way to have a chance is to protect yourself and not rely on someone to do it for you. Criminals and nuts with always find a way to get a weapon regardless of what it may be.

Wow someone speaking common sense. I stated the other day we have 1.6 million vets out of work. How about we give them a job and use them to defend our schools. Two birds with one stone. Protect our kids and help our vets. Take 1 billion each year from the 1.4 trillion we spend on our military programs.

tinlizzieowner

“Take 1 billion each year from the 1.4 trillion we spend on our military programs.”

Take 1 billion each year from the 1.4 trillion we spend on our entitlement programs.

dan pierson

its not the the gun its the person behind the gun is whats wrong and we need laws that if you kill in cold blood no court no jail capital punishment

Matt_SE

And how is that going to deter someone who’s trying to commit “suicide by cop?”
…not to mention the ones that just off themselves once they’re done.

not to be cold hearted. but if your planning to commit suicide by cop? problem solved. if to bust into a secure building and attempt to harm people who are protected by armed security.. problem solved. its a pretty simple concept.

Intrinsic

OMG. Someone that actually gets it. Detective I applaud you!!

dave9000

First common sense solution I have heard since the heinous event took place. It would certainly have saved some of those babies and staff. I too retired from law enforcement and completely agree with the NYPD Detective. On top of that I would say, in some schools, there should be armed officers patrolling the hallways and at the entrances to prevent lunatics like Adam from breaking in.

I agree 100%, I’ve been saying it for a while, but all I get is arguements. Front sight near Los Vegas, has said he would train any three staff that are considered safety people free training designed for situations like this. If I could afford to go out there, I would take myself and wife for some of their training, and I used to be a firearms instructor long ago.

They carry CONCEALED you moron. The ideal would be a 1911 in 9mm since most teachers would find a .45ACP to rough. I don’t like the “point and shoot” styles like Glock, Springfield or S&W because they have no external safeties were the 1911 has THREE. The first is “keep the booger hook off the bang switch”, the second it the thumb safety and the third which few people even know about is the grip safety. You HAVE to have a firm grip on a 1911 to fire it. If not you WILL get a jam.

I am so tired of seeing Americans needlessly becoming victims of some wacko. What we need is a fundamental change in the way we view our safety. WE DO NOT NEED MORE LAWS LIMITING THE WAY IN WHICH WE PROTECT OURSELVES! We need laws that allow us as FREE AMERICANS to protect ourselves more effectively.
Imagine if a certain number of Teachers in every school including collage campuses, were allowed to be trained and carry a concealed firearm. Imagine if those Teachers classrooms were located in key areas of each school as to provide the best tactical coverage of that school. How many lives over the years could have been saved?
What if every state in the union was a “right to carry” state? It is a statistical fact that where concealed carry permits are prevalent violent crime is significantly lower.
It is time we start passing laws to help us help ourselves. The police DO NOT PREVENT CRIME, they clean up what happens after a crime has been committed and maybe they catch the guy that committed it. No government bureaucrat is going to protect you or your family from anything! IT IS YOUR JOB TO BE PREPARED TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR LOVED ONES FROM HARM!

I am so tired of seeing Americans needlessly becoming victims of some wacko. What we need is a fundamental change in the way we view our safety. WE DO NOT NEED MORE LAWS LIMITING THE WAY IN WHICH WE PROTECT OURSELVES! We need laws that allow us as FREE AMERICANS to protect ourselves more effectively.
Imagine if a certain number of Teachers in every school including collage campuses, were allowed to be trained and carry a concealed firearm. Imagine if those Teachers classrooms were located in key areas of each school as to provide the best tactical coverage of that school. How many lives over the years could have been saved?
What if every state in the union was a “right to carry” state? It is a statistical fact that where concealed carry permits are prevalent violent crime is significantly lower.
It is time we start passing laws to help us help ourselves. The police DO NOT PREVENT CRIME, they clean up what happens after a crime has been committed and maybe they catch the guy that committed it. No government bureaucrat is going to protect you or your family from anything! IT IS YOUR JOB TO BE PREPARED TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR LOVED ONES FROM HARM!

Grandadave

What about arming schools with stun-guns like police use, to incapacitate the shooters until they can be coiffed, that would have saved lives at all shootings
at schools. Maybe not all but a lot of them could have been saved.

Marine1962

I think about three rounds from a 9mm or 45auto would be a much better deterrent than a stun gun…

So that excuses letting the murderers be the only ones with guns? Why do you hate children?

2riverboat

“I am very familiar with the “training” for conceal and carry. It is a fixed target, not humans running around screaming in a surprise situation.
And how many more could be dead. Someone just pointed out the 3 innocent shot by trained law enforcement.
How about these teachers with guns? They are teaching (in TX) Allah is the Almighty God, the Boston Tea Party was an act of terrorism. Would you like them to have guns in your kids’ school? Not me.”

My reply was in response to this statement from orangeone. I served in the United States Marine Corps, we never shot at live targets during fire arms training. It was always paper targets. The comment was on the idiocy of orangeone’s statement regarding a fixed target.

Your take on the subject however puzzles me. There was no mention of hating children, only sarcasm, which clearly went over your head.

So you think the wacko that shot all these kids had ‘running target’ practice? Hmmm…

Oh, that’s right. He didn’t need it. Since no one had guns but him, he could line them up in a row and shoot them rather than trying to shoot them while he was being shot at.

I see.

If a person is qualified to shoot at a fixed target with iron sights, then shooting a running target (my preferred position for the killer – running away) with a laser sight is a heck of a lot easier.

Keep in mind, your example of the NYC police officers is in one of those liberal states where they don’t like guns and don’t even allow their police officers to have tasers. I suspect the practice time for these officers was minimal, sad to say. Find an example in a open carry state (say, like Texas?). See what you come up with. Don’t cherry pick your stats.

tinlizzieowner

I’ve got an idea.
Lets put an armed guard and a metal detector at every entrance to every school.
Lets put an armed guard and a metal detector at every entrance to every mall.
Lets put an armed guard and a metal detector at every entrance to every movie theater.
Lets put an armed guard and a metal detector at every entrance to every public place.
And when we get done, let’s see if we can distinguish the difference between who is ‘free’ and who is ‘imprisoned’. 😉

The 2nd Amendment, America’s original ‘Homeland Security’.

68vnamvet

How about we just let every citizen who is not disqualified as a felon or mental patient have a CCW. Here in Delaware County NY we have about 50,000 people and 47,00 Carry Permits. Guess how many crimes against people we have here? That’s right NONE!!!!!

white531

Thank you.

tinlizzieowner

We have allowed ourselves to become a nation of cowards. We have been convinced to cower in fear until someone ‘qualified’ comes along to defend us. That’s the thing that has to change.

Orangeone

I believe in armed guards at schools. We’ve had one for over 30 years. It was put in place mainly because of a rash of noncustodial parents kidnapping their children (not in my district but in the metro area). We didn’t have Amber Alert, etc. We have security at federal buildings. The rest listed not so much.

I completely agree with him on this. Instead of saying we need to ban guns he’s saying we need to arm ourselves to help lessen the effects of such situations. No one would want to do something like this if they knew every staff member was armed. They choose places like this because they know that there is no chance of some one shooting back at them. The only way we are going to win the war on this is not by removing the weapons but arming ourselves against them.

I agree 100% There used to be a ARMED officer in our local school until the GOV. cut funding and budgets. now in my area there are two troopers on duty to cover the entire Allegany county in NY on most nights. It is like this all over the country. If you take away the “trained” officers on our streets, you had better open up another type of defense for the american people. Here is a little idea everyone take a paycut and use the money to provide funding back to the police departments, put metal detectors in our schools you already think government building are important enough to have them, are our children not just as important?
You (the government) have already failed to do your duty and protect the american people on many occasions, You knew about 9/11 well before it happened, What did you do to stop it? Then there is Katrina where you were left scratching you heads wondering what happened. Oh, what about Sandy one day before the storm hits NYC Obama is on the news saying. Bring it on, this time we are ready for what ever sandy has to offer, over a month later our fellow Americans are still without the basic needs of life. Now some sick individual commits a unspeakable act and you blame it on us as a society!!! This has nothing to do with the weapon used. This is all about your agenda. I for one will not stand by and watch you further destroy this great nation. Its time to go back to basics, stop sticking our nose into what is going on in other countries and take care of you own “family” first![email protected]http://www.facebook.com/groups/Commonsenseforthecommonman/

Dan Nowotarski

We The People need to vote out all Politicians who attempt to take away not only our 2nd. Amendment rights but any rights We The People are guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. These Politicians who attempt to take our 2nd. Amendment rights away, try to sell it with a false sense of security. They have an agenda. Schools are a Gun Free Zone, guess what, only the criminal had a gun, that’s what criminals do, they don’t follow laws. It would be stupid of me to say what the outcome would have been if a law abiding citizen had a gun but I would guess the chances of survival would have gone up tremendously. God Bless all Real Freedom Fighting Politicians, America needs to vote out all those goof ball politicians who think they know better than our founding fathers.

Here in Texas, We have a police officer in the schools during school hours. I also believe that if the teachers had guns the children would have been protected. I am so glad he went on here publicly and said what most of us in the country are already thinking. Thank you.

Matt_SE

Yet another reason citizens should be armed instead of relying on the police: budgetary problems.
How are we going to pay all these new police when the country’s going broke paying for the welfare state?

Obama says not a problem, he will just get the fed to print an additional trillion to fund more police, and their equipment, 2 per school avg. more for bigger schools. then they can make sure the curriculum meets the agenda as well.

Matt_SE

They had a saying in the old Soviet Union: “The workers would pretend to work, and the government would pretend to pay them.”

If Obama is paying these police with monopoly money, I wonder what the quality of their “security services” will be.

Orangeone

Our school district taxes fund our armed school security.

Fred Nerks

Gun-free zones make it nice and safe for killers because they know nobody will shoot back at them. It makes sense to the libs!

Rocco11

wouldn’t want guns to get in the “wrong hands” dontcha see…

William50

Let me give you a great example: And wished this kind of story would be on National news channels. Just recently a large man, entered a beauty salon, believe it was in Casper, WY., he started to pull out a large gun to rob place, then saw on of the patrons, a lady who started to pull a gun out of her purse. He put his gun back in pocket and left. It could have been someone or a bunch killed there. See what happens when good citizens are armed. Gun bans and all these stupid laws trying to make for gun control. Will only increase these tragedys. Home invasions, roberies, rape, assault, murder, list goes on. Because you are not going to disarm the criminals!!!! Dumb ass politians should be able to figure this out but way to stupid. Read papers and posts on internet, how people have stopped people breaking into their houses. Some have been shot. Don’t you have the right to protect yourself, family and property?????

the form of Ptsd i have is hi-lighted by what is known as hyper vigilance. my reaction times are faster, my actions are more precise. and my adrenalin does not red line like the average person, meaning i keep a cool head and act instead of panic in high stress situations. the down side is i don’t sleep well and i have a hard time relaxing when in groups of people.

Finaly Someone that has the balls to talk to the media and knows what they are talking about! the criminals are not going to give up there guns! (Criminals) get what that means? they dont listen to rules. And a person with a legal conseal and carry gun is a lot faster responce time than a police when they are standing there. Just knowing they might not be the only gun in the room may also slow them down.

It’s nice to see this proposal by an expert in the field. Unfortunately we have too many inexpert leftists using this tragedy to rip away more of our liberty so they can have more control over our lives.

A fellow Moron at the AoSHQ (“RWC”) came up with the term, blood dancing to describe these monstrous egos and their constant warfare on human life, liberty, and dignity.

Spread the term. They earned it.

K.C.

this could not have come from a better source than a seasoned police officer who has the legitimate knowledge in the public eye to make everyone except the most closed minded of idiots actually stop and think about it, and come to the same conclusion no matter how you look at it.

When seconds count, the police are only MINUTES away! We cannot and should not try to legislate that teachers be mandated to carry weapons and become proficient with them. I cannot imagine a scenario where mostly liberal anti-gun teachers would comply with this. There are no doubt a few teachers that might “see the light” so to speak and probably there are a small percentage of them who are not socialist anti-gunners who might actually want to be able to protect themselves and their young students. I say good on them! Get trained and become proficient with the weapon you use and be prepared. Legislation should allow for this to happen. The only other option that makes sense to me is to employ armed security professionals at schools and shopping centers/stores. One thing is undeniable and I repeat it for possible penetration. WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY! Get a grip on it people. Don’t try to do something that doesn’t work, such as legislate more stupid gun laws. It doesn’t work.

Orangeone

Thank you! I’ve been saying this all day despite repeated attacks. I mentioned below as well that federal buildings all now have security. So why not at all schools? My district high schools do and have for over 30 years largely for other reasons but always to protect the students.

I agree in principle. We must be able to protect ourselves instead of dying in the name of anti gun zealotry.

TXLadyPatriot

Notice the statement in the video that said “Staff were trained to lock the doors and hide in the event of an attack.” A lot of good that training did; now we’ve got more than a dozen people dead. I’m probably going to take a lot of heat for this, but it has to be said. The school administrators are just as much to blame for this, and should be ashamed of themselves! I am NOT saying that they put the gun in the hand of the killer. BUT – they are guilty of allowing the anti-gun rhetoric to go on for all these years. I wonder how they will be able to look in the mirror every day from now on, knowing what this sort of b.s. “training” has done! They’ve turned our children into cowards!!

Landscaper

More like state and federal level. I doubt the school admin’s had a say. I do see your frustration and anger, but it’s placed at the wrong people.

TXLadyPatriot

I agree with you that it is a state issue. However, the federal government needs to stop meddling into state affairs. With that said, I lay the responsibility at the feet of the administrators because they themselves have bought into this liberal lie that the government is here to protect the people from the evil guns; and quite frankly – to protect everyone from themselves. I grew up in an anti-gun state, and this sort of mind-control has been going on longer than I’ve been around. It tore my grandfather’s family apart – but that’s another story altogether. Forgive me, Landscaper … I’m so angry about this I can’t think straight. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Orangeone

I am certainly not going to attack you, I have been attacked all day for my own comments. There is a lot of responsibility to be had, including at the state level with their level of gun control.

Giving guns to teachers isn’t the answer either. Schools need proper security. You cannot enter a federal building now without going through security. Most have armed security. Yet when I proposed that today on this thread I was vehemently attacked, they’d rather give guns to teachers who are trained to hide and now train them to kill.

We have teachers molesting students, bullying them for their political views, having sexual relations and getting pregnant. Teachers are going on strike, using students as pawns in their protests, demonstrate clearly unprofessional behavior, use disgusting language. These are societal problems and need to be addressed.

Schools are also put on lockdown. Well the kid in OK with his own plan on Friday was going to kill with guns and bombs.

What next? Arm nurses and doctors because of the recent hospital shooting? Arm paralegals because attorneys are being shot outside of courtrooms?

snokb04

I’m a nurse, and I’m sure I’d feel a little safer if I had some sort of protection. Especially from all the prisoners that come to get their surgeries, especially when their “guards” don’t carry guns and barely watch them. Our signal that someone is especially dangerous is when the guard is allowed to actually carry his weapon. Makes you a little nervous and most of the guards they send are contracted and don’t make you feel at all safe. Most rapists, thieves and murderers don’t get the gun carrying guard. Always makes you wonder what that guy did when you see the gun. Oh, I guess I should clarify…we aren’t allowed to know what they did.

The answer to teachers molesting, bullying, going on strike, using students as pawns, and using disgusting language is simple: only hire people who have clearly demonstrated moral integrity and good character. Stop hiring people who think they have the right to behave however they please and start hiring people who know and respect the fact that they WILL answer to parents, to judges, and to God for how they conduct themselves and live their lives.

This is what a liberal anti-self defense socialist would do to protect themselves. Hide in a corner. I’d give a months pay if I’m wrong. They don’t want to take responsibility for their own defense and think the govt (cops WITH guns that they hate) will come and rescue them in time. NOT. Most if not all cops will tell you they often end up being first responders rather than rescuers to these kinds of situations. This makes sense only in the liberal mind.

Need to turn our focus on the media and how they take these tragic events and glorify the gunman. The media gives cowards a badge of courage. The media needs to not give attention to the perpetrator none zero. And focus on the victims and giving them a shoulder to lean on. This media in America really stinks.

cooooldman

Wow i thought i was watching myself on that video could not have said it better.

Different view then most of the country? Scratching there head? Are you kidding? All most everyone i talk to is in favor of armed teachers and think it would have saved lives in this incident. Only the media, government and a small percent of the people are for gun free zones, they just make it seem like people want more gun control through these comments, its there agenda

did anyone hear Morgan Freemans take on this…it actually shocked me to hear something as sensible come out of a liberals mouth

DavidRobertson

I don’t pretend to have all the answers when it comes to the question “why” we seem to have a pattern of mass shootings in this country. I guess I agree somewhat with folks here regarding gun free zones. I think they are ridiculous. However, I tend to think it is much bigger than that. I really don’t think this guy’s mental state gave much thought about other folks being armed since he turned a gun on himself anyway.
The incremental dehumanization that our society has undergone with abortion, violent media, pornography, secularization, and drugs are further in the forefront of causes in my mind. Couple those issues with improper treatment of the mentally ill, and you have a powder keg.

Since pilots were allowed to carry guns, when was the last hijacking? For these monsters, where there are no guns, there is no fear. What were these think tanks thinking? Gun free zones are safe, right? If guns aren’t allowed in schools, shopping malls and other public places, we’ll all be safe, right? Then there were the 2 people killed with a bow and arrow last week. A gunman wounded 3 and then was shot and killed in an Alabama hospital. He didn’t count on police being there. I guess he thought hospitals were gun free zones?

i was thinking in the same line this morning John. after terrorist used aircraft as weapons? why didn’t the media scream about banning aircraft?

Matt_SE

The answer is obviously because a modern society couldn’t function without aircraft.
However, this tells you something: that liberals feel society CAN function without guns (at least for the citizens). Why? Because liberals always rely on someone else to clean up the unpleasantness in society. It never even occurs to them that they might take personal responsibility for this aspect of their lives.

They’re just a bunch of disgusting mind-slaves.

tinlizzieowner

The 9/11 terrorists had box cutters, have they been regulated yet, do you have to the a ‘permit’ to own one?

detroitheat

John Baeza you are 100,000% right people have to protect themselves and their loved ones and their fellow citizens…..

I imagine Scoop will post this later if it becomes news, but Oklahoma Police evidently thwarted another possible school shooting, on Friday. Looks like this is becoming our national disease. It would be different, if these were enemy combatants, or Muslims on a rampage, or something else that would make you want to pull the trigger, but these were just children. Five to Seven years old. This happened in a Kindergarten class.

I haven’t come to grips with this yet. There is something about multiple child-sized coffins, being lowered into the ground, that says we have failed as a people, failed as a society. There is no other answer. We can’t really pretend there is one.

I have no doubt some good will come from this. It’s just hard to see it right now. But the parents and loved ones of these children will never see it. They are praying right now, for the strength to just get through the next day, and then the day after that, and finally stop crying and shaking uncontrollably with grief and get control of themselves, and be at peace with what happened. And right now, they think they can’t possibly do that. I don’t blame them. I couldn’t do it, either.

We can say we imagine what it feels like, but that’s a damn lie and you and I both know it. No one knows what it feels like, except those parents.

I’m not a crying man, but I have to keep wiping the tears from my eyes, as I type this. I wipe ’em, and they keep coming. I have four strong healthy sons, and I thank God for that. But fate could have made one of those children mine. Or yours.

One of those children might have found the cure for Cancer, or become a President who actually had the ability to lead this nation back to greatness. Or become a minister who saved men’s souls and gave God that gift. We will never know.

Writing this, was in part, a way of getting rid of the grief I feel, at the senseless loss of these young lives. The other part marks the only time I ever agreed with Obama on anything. We have to stop doing this. While I may admit our motivations for making that statement are not the same, the truth of the statement rings clear.

We have to stop doing this.

Orangeone

And the difference was that the OK student was also going to use bombs.

The sad fact is that there is something terribly wrong with some people. But when are other people going to learn that having a “gun-free zone” is simply an invitation to the psychopaths to go there for their crimes? These things don’t happen in Israeli schools, because the teachers (and many students) are all armed.

June Payne

I thought I had already posted my comment. I just wanted to say that guns are used for things other than sport or crime. When I was growing up in the country a gun was often a necessity. However the people who came to hunt from the city often didn’t know a cow from a deer. Some training would be a good thing. Also respect for other people’s property.

sDee

“I just wanted to say that guns are used for things other than sport or crime.”

The young man was hypnotized. He did not own any guns, and had never fired a gun, yet was able to inflicked this much damage in such a short time…..?….then of course ..suicide!

The autistic man ? no, the Australian shooting that lead to their turning in their guns. That was in the 80’s. Wake up America. If the adults in that school, or any school had a weapon, lives would have been saved. And just maybe the bad guy would have been caught alive. Hell with it shoot him !!!

Amen. I am a univ. professor with a CHL and cannot protect myself or the 100 18 year olds who I teach over the course of a day. I am sure their parents would expect me to do this and doubt they think of fact it would take quite a bit of time for armed campus police to arrive on scene on our large campus. A lot of damage can be done in under five minutes.

white531

Gun Control. Sounds ominous, doesn’t it? Sounds like guns are bad, and they need to be controlled. For those of you from Rio Linda, that’s LiberalSpeak.

In every state in this Union, where legal-carry has been adopted, violent crime has decreased. Funny thing about these bad guys. They like shooting people, but they don’t like it, when those people shoot back.

It is a law that our children and grandchildren enroll in school and attend unless home schooled. A school is funded with tax revenue and administered by a government or governmental agency.Therefore I believe it should be protected by our government with armed guards.They passed a law for kids to be in school so they should have to do whatever it takes to ensure the kids safety.Some people argue well are we going to put armed guards in malls,movie theaters,grocery stores and etc.There is no law that says we have to be at these places like there is for schools.I think if you have a place for the public like malls to be at,then it should be a duty to make sure your customers are safe but it is not a law.They have armed cops in the courthouse,a government building.Why do we not have the same protection for a government run school building where our kids attend.Again and I stress,our government passed laws requiring our kids to be in school and so they should protect our kids from something like this ever happening again.

Finally some words of reason! All “gun free zones” are advertising for criminals to come do and take what you want we have no way to stop you.

I agree with Detective John Baeza teachers should be allowed to get their permits and carry it they wish and receive training for situations like what happened in CT. When my daughter graduates college she will be teaching third grade and I want her to be able to defend herself at work, as her firearm does no good on the glove box!

Who are these supposed people around the country? Where did that comment come from? It is just plain stupid to have “gun free zones”. Law abiding citizens need to be able to defend themselves , family, friends and children. Giving criminals areas where they know they will have no resistance is idiotic. This is what happens when you let a minority of the people dictate what the laws should be because they yell louder. With the average of three guns per household our schools should also have responsible adults with conceal carry. The thought of resistance makes it less likely a criminal will go there. It is a proven fact. This “stop politicizing this” statements are from those who want all Americans to be easy targets. There is nothing we can do to make this better but we can learn from it. Gun Free zones are dangerous. We don’t need to fear honest citizens and we need to bring back teaching morals in school. Taking God out of education has made for generations of kids growing up with no moral guide. It has destroyed our country. I am hoping that a lot of what happened will wake up those who are against Faith and the ability to defend ourselves.

proudhispanicconservative

You guessed it “gun free zones” were instituted by Liberals.

tgore

One of the certifications a teacher should be required to take prior to getting a job as a teacher is firearm safety and training and should be allowed to have a firearm in class, un accessable to children OF COARSE but easy enough for him/her to get to in cases such as this. The one and only reason being TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN. GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. TAKE OUR GUNS THEN ONLY THE CRIMINALS WILL HAVE THEM LEAVING US AT THEIR MERCY WITH NO WAY TO PROTECT OURSELVRES FROM THEM. MANY, MANY CONDOLENCES GO OUT TO THE FAMILIES WHO LOST THIER PRECIOUS CHILDREN AND LOVED ONES. YOU ARE IN ALL OF OUR PRAYERS.

emee2

coming from new york… this is right on… the voice of experience … bloomberg is not a happy highly protected with well armed guards… nyc mayor… awe… the truth will set you free.

white531

I have read all the comments. I am not encouraged by their content.

tinker_thinker

I thought I heard Geraldo say there should be armed guards at every school.

This man is correct.. You can’t stop a maniac unless you have the tools to do so.. This tragedy could have been averted if A teacher was armed and trained to handle a firearm.
These gun free zones favor the gunman who is out to hurt and kill people.. The deterrent in most cases will be the knowledge that the would be gunman will not have a chance to commit his heinous crime before being killed or taken out by an armed defender.
And for all you gun control fanatics that think it’s the guns that are doing the crimes, think again.. it’s the crazies behind the trigger not the gun!! So sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, Never mind your mamsy pamsy feel good liberal mind set that if we ban the gun then we will have no killing.. thats not going to happen and you all know it.
So wake up and smell the coffee.. There are bad people out there, Law enforcement can’t get them all, and its up to all us to protect ourselves.. So wise up and quit your belly aching on gun control.

Orangeone i heard enough of your BULLSHIT!!!! Let me tell you something straight up. You are 1 amazing idiot. Sending teachers with pepper spray to a Gun fight now really how stupit does that sound. Moron why do you think cops carry guns instead of only pepper spray. Hell lets give them water guns, Orangeone bet that will stop the bad guy too. If the teacher is a thug then why did they get hired then. Their has to be armed teachers, arm everyone of them. and to set the record straight on trained shooters. Just how much training did the nut job shooter in Ct. have, let me guess none. But he killed well over 20 people in 3 minutes. A 20 year old thug shot over 20 people in 3 minutes do you get the point Orangy. I have a Concealed Carry too, and yes it is training to use deadly force not just shooting targets. If your plan gets followed then the funeral companies are going to be making big money soon. Properly train everyone of the teachers to use firearms to defend the students. Just another point Orangeone about leaving training to the professionals. Im a EMT-Intermediate and have you not noticed every teacher in schools has to be trained to use CPR/AED’s and AED’s they have hanging in schools every where. And guess what the teachers have used both of them and saved many lives by doing it. The teachers are not professional EMT’s or Dr.’s but they used they training the received and saved lives. And with training every teacher like they do with CPR/AED’s and give them all guns. You will see that not only will this deter psycho gunmen, but if it would arise it would be stopped quickly. And you agree the professional police didn’t hit their mark everytime. I have 3 boys in elementary and Im going to the next PTO meeting and demand the teachers all get armed. I would rather my child be shoot by a teacher trying to protect their lives. As to have them sitting ducks in their class rooms for some nut job to use them for target practice. Now you heard it from a concernedn parent that welcomes guns in schools.

This could only happen if teachers are forced to go through a psychological evaluation every 6 months– otherwise you’d see all these stories about teachers shooting kids who were hostile towards them. If we can hire teachers who will sleep with our students, and can be violent towards students (happens more often than you think), then we can hire teachers who wont be able to use a gun appropriately and would also be inclined to carry one. The solution is easy, to require periodic psych evals of the teachers and have resolution systems designed to handle disputes between teachers and students that are neutral to both parties. The states and the fed will never pay for evals like that, and will never pay for a restructuring of their grievance systems. Give this idea up as a dream, without what I suggested it will kill as many kids a day as this one single incident did.

FreeManWalking

If all the teachers are carrying and a “teacher shoots kids who were hostile towards them,, the other teachers carrying would be in a position to see that it stops there.

Sure we might loose a trouble making @sshole or two, but in the long run it might be a deterrent to hostile students.

“without what I suggested it will kill as many kids a day as this one single incident did.”Unproven BS.

Alexis Mauldin

I’m a public school teacher (high school). I, too, believe teachers should be allowed to carry and defend their students. As for getting caught in the crossfire – consider this: I train regularly with an NRA instructor in defensive pistol and we have gone over active shooter scenarios. He has seen my classroom and worked out strategies.

If I can’t use a pistol, then I’m left with whacking the shooter with my 20 lb Teachers Edition textbook or maybe trying to hit for a jewel shot using an aluminum baseball bat – in pink.

Cars are not to blame when a drunk kills people with them. The airplanes are not to blame when hundreds die from pilot error. But as sad as this was it is even sadder that President Obama took the first chance he could at gun control by saying something has to be done no matter politics. It remended me of when he was running for election and most of his followers voted no to putting God back in. But that did not matter they went against what was voted in and did what they wanted to. That was scary to me. I wanted God to stay in and that Jerusalem was the capital. But the way it didn’t matter the way the people voted is what worried me. I do believe normal Americans don’t need AK-47’s or any of the Big guns . But should be allowed to have a pistol for protection and 22’s , shot guns, and normal hunting guns. How far will gun control go? When you speak of gun control they need to say what they will be allowed to have and not let them think we will be left unarmed to protect our families in this mean ole world. Believe me I understand. I was a 15 year old who had a gun held to her head. I was a young mother of 2 young children ages 3 and 4 when a man broke into my appartment. With drugs being so bad and drug carel joining up with gangs in Houston, Texas we are scared. People are robbing houses for TV’s and electronics to sell for drug money. Just be sure and let people know they can have thier protection.

i agree teachers need to arm and defend themselves and our children too!!

grannyto5

I feel safer knowing that my husband carries and that he is also an expert marksman, thanks to his military training, also my son-n law who is a deputy and my daughter who is a nurse. Neither one go anywhere without their DEFENSE weapon! They go to local range regularly to practice and not with still targets. My two oldest grandsons are being trained to shoot starting with their BB and Pellet guns, the youngest two who are only 4 will also be trained when their Papa feels they are ready! They are taught to respect their weapons and only use them to defend themselves or prevent harm to the innocent. Our boys are also being taught Karate. Our neighbors have done the same with their son. My husband will not sit with his back to any door in any restaurant for the simple reason you never know what crazy nut will come thru the door. We say yes! Train educators on weapon use. Make it known that WE will fight back. It may be your loved one they save!

If even one of the adults there was armed, they could have dropped that POS before he killed those kids.

kona1234

Please review closely the medication history of the crimnal . Check all his school doctor and primary care doctors records for prescriptions of psychotropic medications . EACH OF THE CRIMNALS IN SUCH CASES AS THIS ARE OVER MEDICATED … LOOK AT THEIR EYES … THE EYES TELL THE STORY … EACH ONE HAS A HISTORY OF MIND CONTROL MEDICATIONS … I.E . THE DOCTORS KNOW AHEAD OF TIME THE ONES THAT ARE AT RISK FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR !!!!

Josh Grigonis

Every teacher should have 2 flashbangs, a fully auto bushmaster, and a duffel bag full of ammo. That’ll fix things…

tvlgds

Absolutely! I just had that same conversation with my sister and she works in a middle school just outside of New Orleans. I told her Bobby Jindal should pass a law allowing teachers/administrators to carry on campus (with proper training, of course!) Heck, when I was in high school all the “goat ropers” had rifles in the racks of their pick em up trucks on campus. Amazingly, nobody ever got shot!{{{{sarcasm}}}}

this room is full of idiots! the answer to guns is more guns? i guess this is the same group that says the answer to poverty is more poverty. or the answer to ignorance is more ignorance. children are dead and all of you want more guns!!! you are all sick! the 2nd amendment was made when we were occupied by another country and the guns of the time were muskets. if we stop putting high powered ammo and rapid firing guns on the market there will be none to be use against society. most gun owners have their own guns used against them in crimes. look at europe and see how little gun violence they have in a more densely populated area. where as we seem to accept gun violence and try to solve it with arming more people. if you could ask any of these poor children who lost their lives im sure they wish no guns ever existed. children shouldnt have to go to school in an armed fortress. that is not the answer.

a great man once said all we have to fear is fear itself. now this nation is notorious for creating fear and we create our own problems as a result. i dont believe all guns should be banned but there needs to be in end to domestic and foreign distribution of killing machines. no one needs any thing more than either a revolver, shotgun, or rifle. these are actual defensive, protective, and hunting tools. and sorry it shouldnt be every ones right to own a weapon, there should be much more scruples involved. a background check, a psychological exam, a training/educational class requirement, and yearly check ups.

for any one who wishes to respond to this stating im liberal or against freedom, please note, i guarantee i am more fiscally conservative and more socially conscious than any of you, i own a revolver, and i believe in the classic song “dont take your guns to town”. when people start regularly arming themselves it will only result in paranoia, panic, and death. look at history, look at the old west, when citizens were allowed to carry guns constantly, more gun deaths per capita occurred than ever before or since. thats why they banned taking guns into town!

nobody would say we should cure aids, cancer, or greed with more of the same, so why should gun violence be cured with more gun violence?

Joe, remember the shooting @ the mall? It so happens there was a CWP holder close to the gunman, when the gunman saw this man behind a post holding a gun he turned the gun and then shot himself…
Something to think about…. Just maybe the CWP holder saved some lives that day even without firing a shot….. http://youtu.be/BuLgO4wo4xI

The “assault rifle” of the 18th century was the British Long Land Pattern Brown Bess .75 caliber musket. In combat far superior to the legendary long rifle. The Americans didn’t really start to win until the French supplied them with Charleville muskets and European officers like Von Steuben, Pulaski and LaFayette TAUGHT them to fight like their enemies. A trained Redcoat routinely got off 4-5 rounds a minute from his musket AND had that 18″ bayonet on the end. A long rifle, I own and shoot one, takes about a minute to reload. Maybe 45 seconds using every trick in the book and there’s NO bayonet to defend yourself if overrun.

Franklin and Jefferson were gifted amateur scientists. They were also unaccredited engineers. Franklin devised the Franklin stove to heat homes and refused to take a patent on it. He also advocated for a regiment of ARCHERS. Bows will fire in the worst weather every time. If deployed en masse with musket and cannon support they’d have cut a lot of Redcoats down as they did at Agincourt.

Jefferson collected all manner of guns. He knew that the gun had evolved from the Handgonne (a tube on a stick), to the fire lock, to the wheel lock to the snaphaunce and finally to the flintlock. He also knew that Maj. Ferguson had developed a BREECH loading rifle that gave the user the speed of a musket and accuracy of a rifle.

The 2nd Amendment was intended for the people to have protection from tyranny, as the Founders had seen first hand and knew that every government is capable of becoming.
People have a right to protect themselves- yet in places like this school and elswehere, people were not allowed their 2nd Amendment rights and look what happened.
No, more guns might not stop gun violence any more than more cars will stop people from getting killed by car crashes, but people have a right to keep and bear arms.
I can’t help but wonder how many lives might have been saved if someone had have been carrying could have shot this guy, or the guy in a crowded movie theater, or the guy on a crowded street corner, or all the schools which have suffered these tragedies.
Back in the “old days” where boys brought their rifles to school because they were going hunting afterwards, or had gunracks in their trucks- I don’t recall hearing much about these kinds of incidents.

You say there should be more restrictions on getting guns…There are already laws in place, yet will criminals follow these laws? Should innocent people who want to protect themselves and others have more hoops to jump through just so criminals can have laws they won’t obey?

“the 2nd amendment was made when we were occupied by another country and the guns of the time were muskets.” The reason they were using muskets, is because the M16 and AK47 were not available.

Have you ever heard of the expression fight Fire with Fire.

The problem with people who think as you do, fail to realize that bans only work on the law abiding sane citizens. Criminal like this deranged kid will get a weapon regardless of your actions to try and prevent it.

And by the way, we haven’t put a dent in poverty after throwing billions maybe trillions at it for the last 60 years either.

snokb04

Did you know that the WORST school massacre in US History occurred in 1927 and didn’t even involve a gun? Look it up if you don’t believe me. There’s a reason they keep calling the current one the worst SHOOTING school massacre, because it’s not the WORST. What’s that tell you though? If we ban guns, the crazies will still find a way. Case in point, the guy in China this week, who (since guns aren’t available to him) went on a STABBING rampage in school. That’s so much more acceptable, right? IMO, even ONE kid getting killed by a crazy is too many. The number of people killed doesn’t make it more or less significant and neither does whether they used a gun, a knife or a shrapnel-filled car.

Nukeman60

‘this room is full of idiots!‘ – joe

So your answer to a room full of idiots is to add one more idiot? You own a revolver, but apparently know nothing about gun safety. Conceal-carry permits come with the required training and know-how to use the weapon wisely and safely. Criminals are not required to take safety courses or required to know how to be responsible.

Should you ban all guns from responsible citizens, then the criminals will still have guns, as our government likes to hand out weapons to our enemies like candy and then these can be gotten on the black market. You will not be eliminating all guns, just those that we need to defend ourselves from the criminals. Of course that would make sense to you.

Across the United States, you will see that the areas of greater gun crime are those that have banned guns and the states with conceal-carry and open-carry have less crime. Most gun owners have not been involved in gun crimes, therefore your statement about most of them having their guns used against them is as false as it is ludicrous.

That ‘once great man’ that said all we have to fear is fear itself forgot to say we need to fear idiots as well. Take a lesson, here. That man you so fondly talk of was Franklin D. Roosevelt and he was the 1930’s equivalent of Barack H. Obama. Not so great after all. Thanks to him we had a decade long recession that we couldn’t get out of without entering WWII. Obama has followed in his footsteps, utilized his policies almost to the letter and will cause the same conditions (many are already here) that Roosevelt caused.

God help us all from people like you who worship him. You claim you’re not a liberal (because you have fiscal conservative ideals, heh) but you promote liberal values and policies. You claim that you’re more socially conscious than all of us (how you would know that is both a mystery and arrogant). You are not more fiscally conservative nor socially conscious. You are merely more ignorant about guns (among many other things) and probably shouldn’t be able to own that revolver you are so proud of.

What you need to do is get rid of all your weapons, put a sign on your front door reading, “Attention Criminals, the people in this establishment have been disarmed for your convenience.”, and then come back in the future to tell us how that worked out for you.

Rather than worry about fighting gun violence with more gun violence (a most idiotic statement, btw), perhaps you should learn to fight ignorance with less ignorance in the future and save your one sole comment for something more in line with what you can fathom.

There’s another element involved: as the son of one of the teachers, Lanza was an insider, a trusted individual allowed into the complex without the same scrutiny a stranger would have received. He caught them off-guard. There’s no way an unarmed school population can protect themselves from an armed intruder. That’s why we see these tragedies happening over and over.

Properly armed and trained school staff, and properly trained children who know to ‘drop and cover’ on alert, would be better prepared to deal with these emergencies. No one need know which staff are ‘packing heat’. My guess is that the type of coward who kills schoolchildren would steer away from schools with the sign ‘Protected by armed security.’

It may be time for every school to have an armed guard. For the much larger schools (say with about 2,000 students), maybe have two guards. This would be especially useful in inner-city schools. But it may be time to have them. Sad to have to say it, but unless our culture changes dramatically in the near future, we’ll need them.

One armed guard? What if he is busy on the other side of the school, dealing with an out of line kid, in the bathroom, or getting coffee? Arm and train ALL of the adults in the school and things like this won’t happen. How many police station massacres have we ever read about?

I absolutely agree…….thank you for making sense in this ” oh no we couldn’t possibly” mentality. These disturbed people know full well, that our schools are completely defenseless..NO ONE CAN BE ARMED…not even a licensed to carry a conceled weapon adult. This has been proven over and over, how many more of or “defenseless children and teachers have to die until we wake up?

He is 101% RIGHT arm the teachers and staf do away with killing zones.

JungleCogs

We should have a serious talk about guns. First we need to talk about Fast & Furious, the Obama sponsored gun running program and the 300+ deaths he caused. Then, we need to talk about the elimination of “gun free zones”; they are killing us.

Totally agree and he is a brave man to say it! These crazy people only go to gun free zones as they know there won’t be any opposition to their plans. I’ve never seen anyone try this in a police station and if it did happen before there’s no chance that that many people would have been killed.

I agree 100%, the gun free zones are magnets to the criminal.They know they have no opposition, and are safe to enter and do harm. The teachers must be trained in their use, and when it is appropriate to take action. The teachers did what they were trained to do, but hiding in a class room? That is like ducking and taking cover under a table in the event of a nuclear attack. Get real and start looking at this as an act of aggression against your family and darn it, get up and protect those looking to you for help. I agree that there is no need for assault rifles, and clips that hold 50-100 rounds. The problem is, those that commit these kinds of crimes, will have them, if their outlawed or not. The LAPD found that out in the bank robbery that claimed so many of them. They no longer just carry a 38, and they did not hang them up. They were finally issued weapons that gave them a fighting chance, and were TRAINED. The violence that our kids are subjected to in their games, T.V., and lack of Morals in the society, has deadened their hearts, to the point they don’t feel, until the destruction is over and then they have no way out but to take their own life because they finally got in touch with their self, and could not go on living.

Utah does not have a gun free zone. Our schools tried to make them gun free, but it did not work here. Our citizens for the most part have been trained in the use of fire arms by their parents, and grand parents. Our teachers are allowed to carry as long as they have their concealed carry permit. Our law enforcement is aware and happy to have this support. They don’t ask us to help them, but they have a good idea that if they needed it, they would get it. Maybe we are more concerned for one another than most, or maybe, we teach a different set of morals than most.

I like the idea of the VP and the principal having a shot gun to take out any ‘A-hole’ who penetrates our campus !

deb54

Think about it. Teachers are entrusted with our children for their safety and security, having them with them longer then most parents have them in the evening, but we don’t allow them to or care to allow them to have what it takes to protect them!

Let’s start with frickin banning MILITARY HEAD TO TOE FULL METAL JACKET BODY GEAR TO CIVILIANS!! If an individual purchases this gear, do you really think they are going to use it as a display on their fire mantle?!?

at first i thought he was saying that he needs to make more gun free school zones as i was reading see that i was wrong this man gets two thumbs up and congress needs to see that a gun free school zone only keeps those civilians that actually have morals from going on the campus with them but not those dirt-bags like the shooter in Connecticut from comming there to shoot freely at small children if that principle had a gun the killer wouldnt of got so far

A point I made to a relative who said we should abandon the 2d Amendment, and one that I plan to spread around:

If you had a time machine, and could go back 10 years and make any change to the law you wanted, up to and including a complete firearms ban, the chances are you would not have affected the outcome of Newtown’s events at all. Connecticut already has a ban on “assault weapons.” But, apparently Lanza’s mother owned one, as well as two pistols. Reports now are that’s where Lanza got the weapons, after killing his mother.

However, if you used the same time machine, and went back a mere 48 hours (at the moment) and placed a civilian with a legal weapon and training in the school, the chances are high that the outcome would have been vastly different. The probability exists that Adam Lanza might never have made it out of the school office.

As a Viet Nam veteran and a former State Licensed Private Patrol Officer–armed, I DO NOT approve of allowing teachers throughout the entire country to carry loaded guns. I know from personal experience that most people don’t know when to use a gun. It took me at a minimum 1 year of carrying a gun to get to the knowledge of when to shoot. Now is NOT the time to have schools in country to carry loaded guns.

snowshooze

I don’t think it would take a Policeman or Military man to figure out it was time to shoot in this instance.

Alky

I dunno about arming those whacky teachers, they didn’t present a very stable impression of themselves during their assorted union events!

Personally I think they should arm and train the teahers and administration in the school and have an armed guard there too. These sick people that was the minute of fame by doing the most horrendous act will not give a damn if you have a gun free zone. Did this man care and he had to go through locked doors.

Moose_Hunter

Teachers and school staff are trained to deal with all kinds of emergencies save one. They conduct fire drills, flood, earthquake, hurricane and tornado drills, and, over the years, these drills have saved the lives of many children (and adults). But NOOO FREAKING WAY are teachers and school staff allowed to train, equip, and prepare themselves to deal with human violence. The spineless, bleeding heart, goody goody liberals and their elected cretins have all this blood on their hands. I hope their sleep is filled with nightmares.

This whole “gun free zone” obviously isn’t working, and will never work. What did seem to work pretty well were previous laws allowing CCW holders to carry where ever they desired except in airport security zones. If anyone thinks a deranged gunman or even a plain criminal pays any attention do “gun free zone” laws except to pick an area where victims are unarmed, they are quite mistaken. It is because of current “no ccw” laws and societal expectation that these laws are obeyed that we have the problems we have today. I have been to Alaska where CCW and open carry is the norm. I felt perfectly safe in Walmart and other establishments even while seeing other citizens carrying handguns. In fact, I felt safer than in the lower 48. The mere fact that someone is carrying a weapon should not be cause for alarm, but we have citizens who have been brainwashed to presume the carrying of a weapon is horrible and should not be allowed. I firmly agree with the detective.

James Reardon

No, I do not agree with this at all. School a gun free zone.. Yes, it should be. Who should be there? Not no armed teacher or principal. I want to see my tax dollars at work. I want to see these cops stationed in the schools, one at the front door manning the metal detectors and one roaming the halls during school hours. 8 hours a day two cops. Not a lot to ask! For those cops to do their jobs and protect our children in the public schools, not arming teachers. Most cops in our area are just parked in the same place all day everyday.

Or in this case they are shaped like doughnuts making videos telling the public we should arm the teachers so they don’t have to do their jobs.

I don’t see Mrs. Crabtree directing 25 students to safety while in a shootout with a madman. That’s just borderline stupid. Back to the drawing board Doughnut boy.

snowshooze

As this man wandered freely about killing children at leisure, without any concerns of anyone defending themselves…
If you were there, and were armed… wouldn’t you have stopped him?
No Citizen at the school was legally able to defend their lives with the use of a firearm. The government handed those people a potential death sentence before this happened.

John Laigaie III

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, there were 98,817 public schools during the 2009-2010 school year.
That would take almost 200 thousand LEOs. Never going to happen

Running the numbers:
Parameters- 98,817 schools with two officers per school full time.
Utilizing an average annual cost to employ one officer of $40,000 (the cost is more than just the salary due to federal withholding and benefits), the total to employ two officers is $7,905,360,000 or $7.9 billion. This figure is likely well on the low side based upon salaries.

Due to vacation/leave/sick time/training, you never have 100% of your officers on duty, so an allowance would need to be made for this, which could add up to 50% more cost.

One alternative would be to utilize retired and still qualified LEOs that could work for lower cost and no retirement or other benefits. Allowing qualified staff that is desirous of being armed would reduce the cost greatly.

Sober_Thinking

Amen!!!!!

white531

You won’t believe this.

Obama administration let school security funds lapse…

(Washington Guardian) – Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

The town of Newtown, Conn., in fact, took advantage of one of these programs in 2000 when it got $125,000 in funds from the COPS in Schools program, Justice Department records show.

The COPS program has been a Trojan horse since day 1. Local governments are lulled in by the “free money” and hire more officers. The “free money” runs out and the local taxpayers are left with the bill, so they either raise taxes or fire the officers.

It would be far better to not take the money in the first place (IRS) and allow it to be better utilized by the local governments. This applies to many things from housing to law enforcement. The more hands the money goes through the less there is for the need.

white531

I like that explanation, and I totally agree. I want to get as far away from Federal Government control as I can. The States can do far better on their own.

white531

What we spent on Solyndra, would have put security officers in every school in America, and this tragedy would have been avoided.

100% agree, especially after reading this….In the wake of Friday’s mass killing at an elementary school in Connecticut, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said Sunday that she plans to introduce an assault weapons ban bill on the first day of the new Congress.

“I’m going to introduce in the Senate, and the same bill will be introduced in the House — a bill to ban assault weapons,” Feinstein said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

CALL YOUR SENATORS AND SAY “HELL NO” !! WE MUST LEARN TO BE RUTHLESS TOO !!
We MUST STOP THIS WOMAN, NOW!!!!!!!!!!

Libs are gonna have a sh** fit over this. Liberals have blood on their hands for being so stupid to believe that if you ban guns in schools that the mass murderers will say “damn, I want to go kill me a bunch of kids but it’s against the law to take my gun in the school”.

I hope some of you ignorant libs read this, because it’s YOUR fault and you’re creating target zones for mass murderers to go to. Idiots.

I apologize if this is against the rules, so feel free to delete it if it’s out of bounds.

Can you imagine having a sign out in front of your house which says, “There are no firearms at this address”? I doubt if anyone would be that stupid because your home would be a prime target for felons and murderers, yet the liberal anti-gun crowd thinks it’s perfectly fine to do the same thing in front of schools with signs indicating it’s a “Gun-free Zone”.

At the end of a training course, the teachers and administrators would be, for all intents and purposes, auxiliary police or reserve deputies with the power to protect the lives of everyone at the school with armed force and be able to legally detain suspicious characters who entered the premises without permission like the one in Newtown, CT until the authorities arrive. The reason I suggest school officials be made auxiliary officers is for the simple reason of liability. Another important point is parents would have the confidence of knowing these people are not only trained, they have the authority to arrest perpetrators. It is my hope they will never have to draw their guns or shoot anyone. As the saying goes, “You don’t shoot to kill – you shoot to stay alive.” It is my hope this program would save many innocent lives of children and parents working in schools without ever firing a shot.

SoCalCop

This Detective is stating the obvious. Now all needs to be done is for people to actually listen.

2riverboat

My apologies to the readers on this site. I have failed in my first duty as a communicator, I didn’t address my remarks to the audience, dumb it down enough for you to grasp. I think the Detective is absolutely right, gun free zones are kill zones, exactly that nothing else.
I didn’t speak as to the training of the murderer in this case, I have no idea what he knew or even what he thought, he is a murderer.
I don’t believe we should provide guns to everyone to carry everywhere to do whatever. I believe that holders of concealed weapons permits undergo the required training in that municipality to obtain the license to carry. They are trained in deescalation of events, they are trained to avoid situations where possible and when not possible to deescelate the situation and when not possible to handle the situation with deadly force if needed.
We CCW holders do not run willy nilly around shooting everything that moves, that is the murderer’s role in the situation we are trying to defuse.
I believe as stated earlier gun free zones are murder at will zones and any CCW holder present in one of those shooting ranges (gun free zones) will positively effect the outcome. I for one do not go to gun free zones, I don’t go to restaurants that don’t allow guns for the simple reason I will not let someone else decide if I have to right to defend myself.
Yes I carry, everywhere I go, everyday of the week, the weekend and all holidays. I carry because it is my right to have the ability to defend my person and property from any and all situations where those rights are threatened.
I get that we all just want to get along, and live in a society where we all do just get along. But that is not the reality of today’s world, nor at any other time in the history of man as far as I can tell.

white531

Kudos. My sentiments exactly.

SophiaH

Just posted your comment on my FB page
MANY reasoning people among my circles there who will visit here
The more we the people define this issue the sooner reason WILL prevail.
`

Finally, the truth. The policy of gun free zones is guilt for that kind of tragedy. Criminals choose easy targets. Simple as that. And the government uses the tragedy as an excuse to take away rights from the people. But fact is governments are afraid of armed citizens. Ask Kadaff.

Well said. I agree with this. TRAINING and arming those that are responsible with our most precious resource (our children), to react defensively makes much more sense than talking about when, where and how the next tragedy can be avoided. You don’t have to come up with a whole bunch of money, I’ll pitch in to my kid’s school to train and arm a staffer. And I know I can find a dozen more parents willing to pitch in. Tax breaks for teachers that purchase a conceal/carry piece (a Walther PPS 9mm costs $600 for example, get 12 parents to donate $50 to the school). Have them take a firearms course (the guns cost money but how many firearms training facilities can donate an instructor (tax incentive), Have them take an emergency response course (medical and even tactics to respond tactically to a threat.). There are options, and the money can be found somewhere to protect our children.
People are unpredictable. Talking about it doesn’t change that. Yes mental health programs are needed, church or the lack of religion has nothing to do with mental imbalance. No we don’t need to ban weapons from law abiding citizens, (only the unlawful would be carrying guns then.).
This is a tragedy, let us mourn the loss and not turn it into a religious or political argument, but let us take action to make sure this tragedy is no longer repeated in our history. If a psycho steps onto my child’s school grounds with a weapon I want them on the the ground before they have a chance to level that piece at any child or innocent.

Again KEY WORD ‘Trained’ individuals, they don’t have to be teachers, they can be the principles, and other screened staffers.
Enough said.

white531

“On the ground,” being the operative phrase. “On the ground and Dead,” even better.

SophiaH

incognegro wrote: “Again KEY WORD ‘Trained’ individuals, they don’t have to be teachers, they can be the principles, and other screened staffers.
Enough said. ”

THIS is what the screamers keep disallowing. TRAINED and not necessarily teachers
or any who are afraid of guns or hold marxist views on gun ownership.

There are plenty of retired military and law enforcement available who might work for small recompense as part of their communal actions for the protecrtion
of the children and even the surrounding area of the schools befor and aftre school hours and during school events or meetings of parents and school admins on school property.

We need to hit every online thread we can find and keep making these logical points

Find me on FB sharing these forums with those who do pass on reasonable solutions.

SophiaH

If some teachers were trained and armed shooters would not go to schools with guns
If retired militray arms trained patrols were in every school the killers would not not be able to carry out their agenda with ANY means

Maybe gas canisters as in Sarin or explosives strapped to their chests

it AINT guns folks,

its the foundering culture that is defined for us by follywood and MSM

Train and arm school personnel armed while on duty and hire retired military to patrol

soooo simple but not what the controlling entity wants for us and our kids.

they WANT us to rise up so they can openly decree martial law.

take all responsibility into your community and by pass the fed in all your
actions.

DIVORCE THE FED.

PROTECT OUR OWN.

`

white531

Thanks, Sophia. Hope everyone reads that.

SophiaH

Where people still have a modicum of freedom many are doing the right moves:

My friend John makes good points. Public safety is a necessary function of government. The cost to assign an officer to each school would be very high, but we have to ask what the cost of not doing so ends up being. An alternative may be to use retired officers such as John that could work at a lower cost. There are a lot of possibilities here that need exploring.

Arming teachers or civilian staff is something deserving of a lot of thought. I’m sure John has seen officers that struggle with firearm qualifications when no one is shooting back. If there are teachers that are qualified and desirous of doing so, this should be an option to them- and could work well with having local officers at the school. I agree with what others have posted about not making it known that they are present.

As John said, the federal law needs to go- this is yet another one-size-fits-all remedy that hurts us and does not help us.

white531

The argument of who should carry concealed weapons on a school ground, is getting a little tiresome. Everyone seems to have an opinion about it.

Personally, I would like to see off-duty or retired law enforcement officers, but that’s just me. The small town of Harrold, Texas has done it with Teachers, since 2007. You want to do it with Teachers, I have no problem with that, either.

Here’s my point. I don’t care if you do it with the Janitors, so long as you just do it!

I want the bad guys or crazy guys to know, that when you break into a school campus in America, the very first person you meet, is probably carrying a weapon and knows how to use it. IT’S THAT SIMPLE!

not sure why people are so scared when notion is mentioned to them that they defend themselves. if you can’t take up the responsibility and think your life is always somebody else’s job despite america has one of the most sparse population density in the world while covering lots of land, by all means stop living and few would care. hate over grown children masquerading as adults

SophiaH.

President Obama will announce later this morning the creation of a gun control task force led by Vice President Joe Biden to recommend new policies aimed at preventing another school shooting.