Back to the OP's question, will Obama live up to expectations? That surely comes down to what you expect?! If you belive that he will shore up the American economy, sort out the health care system, stop bombing poor defenceless 3rd world countries, communicate with the wider world including the so called 'axis of evil', make a positive impact with regards to climate change then i think yes. Any more than that and i think it's too much.

I support the death penalty in some cases. For example, mass murders/serial killers/serial rapists don't deserve to live. They can't be rehabbed. How can we justify wasting resources on these people, whose utility to society has essentially dried up?

You know it's funny Ironman, you're obviously very sensative about the stereotypes and misconceptions people have about Atheists, and yet you're so quick to stereotype anyone who's views differ from your own. I don't remember saying anything about birth control, stem cell research, or gay marriage.

Actually I was talking about the religious right in general. I certainly wasn't talking about you.

I was not stereo typing. I am just telling you what they say. Trust me, I could never even dream up the stuff I said. Those are the kind of things they argue. THEY actually say they believe those things. I am not kidding. Listen to conservative talk radio. You will see what mean.

Now if I had ever said I was a dirty amoral heathen that wants to molest animals and kids and go on a killing spree because I have no god to hold me back, or that I am in league with satan to help unleash god's wrath on the earth. Then I could understand them portraying atheists like that.

They however DO make the slippery slope argument that gay marriage leads to marrying kids. So do you see why I might think that believe that?

I think the problem is, you live in PA where republicans and/or religious people are pretty moderate. That is NOT how it is further south.

As for the bill I refered to ... yes it would legalize elective third-trimester abortions, since it would end all state restrictions on abortion. If I can find the article I'll post it.

I know it would. And that is good since nearly all third trimester abortions are done to save the woman's. People who want an abortion get them done earlier. An elective third trimester is rare. Those women that have those actually wanted that baby, but they faced a medical problem where their probability of dying is higher than they are willing to risk to keep the baby.

In fact there are some cases where the woman is almost certain to die, and the child will not make it more than a day or 2.

I support the death penalty in some cases. For example, mass murders/serial killers/serial rapists don't deserve to live. They can't be rehabbed. How can we justify wasting resources on these people, whose utility to society has essentially dried up?

I read somewhere once that keeping a prisoner locked up for life was cheaper than executing them. The cost of the numerous appeals process including lawyers fees from both sides etc, outweighs the cost of keeping someone locked up for life.

Their utility to society hasn't dried up if you stick them on a bicycle connected to a dynamo which then generates electricity. If they did that for a few hours a day they could then serve some purpose.

Meanwhile, my personal views on abortion are as follows ... Life begins at conception. That isn't a religious belief, it's a scientific fact. Exactly when that life becomes a person is a matter of opinion, so I can understand the argument for allowing abortions in the very early stages of development (although personally I'm against all elective abortions). Elective abortions performed in the late stages of development are another matter entirely. A nine-month-old fetus is a baby, and I don't see how anyone can argue in favor of legalized infanticide.

Actually life starts BEFORE conception. Sperm are certainly alive. Eggs are sort of alive. They are dormant, but still viable genetic material. Every time a guy cums 300 million babies die. The bacteria in my intestines that help digest my food are alive too. My immune system is murdering viruses by the millions too. Yes I know it's silly.

There are a bunch of trees in my back yard. They could become a house, but nobody is going to give me $100K for them.

Abortion in early stages? I think that proves my point about you not understanding because you are from PA. Here in MO any republican voter would think you are total baby killing pinko bed wetting liberal.

I don't agree with elective 2nd trimester abortions personally. But I am not going to tell woman what she can and can't do with her body, or how much risk is too much. Nor do I want to create a black market.

Abortion is NOT a lightly made decision. The girl is going to have to live with that the rest of her life. It is something she will never feel good about. It will always hurt. But it still might be the right thing for her to do.

What we need to do is prevent it with contraceptives and proper sex education. conservatives out here appose that by the way.

By the way. I support the death penalty because after all, is life in prison REALLY more humane then death penalty? Well provided the execution is relatively painless.

I think life in prison is worse. I think a lot of people don't like the death penalty because they want to spare their own conscience rather than a persons life. Life in prison doesn't hurt you. But putting someone to death. That hurts.

Now if you're Catholic it's because the Church said. But I think self interest is a big factor in other death penalty foes.

I see, separate but equal eh? Because apartheid and Jim Crow laws were so cool.

Too bad we don't have he Jim Crow laws I really enjoyed those. :(

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Will there be a gay bathroom too?

I'm all for that to, you must be a mind reader!

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I think in 20 years people will think about what they said and be embarrassed. Kind of like the way people started felling in the 80's about stuff they said in the 60's.

Hey if I'm ignorant for my POV on this issue so be it, I will be able to sleep soundfully tonight knowing I am indeed ignorant when it comes to gay rights. IMO marriage is between a man and women and thats it.

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That's kind of harsh. Sorry. Nothing against you. I just wanted to make that point.

"I read somewhere once that keeping a prisoner locked up for life was cheaper than executing them. The cost of the numerous appeals process including lawyers fees from both sides etc, outweighs the cost of keeping someone locked up for life." - Proper Knob

That's true. However, the most convincing argument against the death penalty (for me at least) that the criminal justice system is imperfect.

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