Simpson stated the mill cannot immediately meet new effluent standards for settleable solids, turbidity, total biological oxygen demand (TBOD) and Total Suspended Solids (TSS) standards for bleached pulp, leading the board to also adopt Cease and Desist Order (NO. R1-2010-0039) which establishes a time schedule for bringing the facility into compliance in three years. The order also establishes interim standards to be met as per the schedule.

Two Eureka residents and 10 letters from the public objected to the permit and order.

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Since there is no regulatory limit to the size of a clear-cut targeting “non-merchantable species” I guess we can expect to see an increase in the size and frequency of the largest clear-cuts in Humboldt. The industry calls it “Rehab”, no joke. Herbicide spraying goes hand in hand with this method.

Humboldt Redwood Company is one of the main practitioners of this method, as is Sierra Pacific Industries.

F

July 16, 2010 at 10:22 am

Tanoak and Madrone are both considered “non-merchantable”.

HappyDance

July 16, 2010 at 10:24 am

Yaaaa !!!!!!!!

David

July 16, 2010 at 10:30 am

Best news in 20 months.
Go Freshwater,Go Mr Simpson.
Good luck with the last hurdles.

anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 10:54 am

We’ve got beautiful tanoak floors in our house. Even with dogs it’s wearing well and it’s beauty is the first thing people comment on when they come in. Ask Whitethorn construction if it’s merchantable and if they get a good price for it.

“However, BOD in the Pacific Ocean is not an issue or concern due to the size of the receiving water (Pacific Ocean), and because the ocean constantly produces oxygen through wave action and tidal influence.”

Freshwater is sorry to say a scam. They won’t be making any “tissue”. They will be turning fresh water into sugar soup and the sugar soup will create another dead zone off our coast.

The Samoa Pulp mill has never made a profit since the last time Mr. Simpson ran it.

The only thing it produces is tax subsidies for the people who run it, and a cheap way for timber companies to dispose of their refuse at taxpayers expense.

Will the pulp mill run without government subsidies? I bet not.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 12:05 pm

Attitude ? Its the attitude of people that dont know of what they speak. But run their mouths anyway.
Now thats why you get attitude.

the reasonable anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 12:11 pm

“Two Eureka residents and 10 letters from the public objected to the permit and order.”

That’s all? And I thought I heard that there was this powerful anti-everything crowd around here that was against any kind of economic activity. And then here’s a bit of heavy industry that would provide hundreds of good-paying jobs, and yet there’s no groundswell of anti-everything folks attacking it.

Huh… maybe that anti-everything crowd is mostly a myth created by those who resent the fact that a large segment of the public opposes THEIR particular project…such as the Big Box by the Bay.

Gee, maybe when the opponents of the Big Box by the Bay say that they oppose low-wage retail jobs that will only come at the price of losing many better-paid retail jobs at other local stores, and that what we need instead are more good-paying, full-time jobs with benefits, they actually mean that.

the reasonable anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm

Of course there IS Highboltage, who often talks about the importance of manufacturing jobs, but has already made up his mind that this couple of hundred manufacturing jobs aren’t the ones he wants.

the reasonable anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 12:21 pm

“Freshwater is sorry to say a scam. They won’t be making any “tissue”.”

They will be making pulp, some of which will be made into tissue elsewhere. By the way, they will be making it with a dioxin-free process, one of the cleanest plants in the country. And they eventually hope to expand into manufacturing tissue here.

“They will be turning fresh water into sugar soup and the sugar soup will create another dead zone off our coast.”

Did the pulp mill, when it was functiong before, create a “dead zone off our coast?” First I’ve heard of that. Pulp manufacturing DOES create pollution (water AND air), but I don’t thing the BOD issue is really as serious as you think. Which may be why the Regional Water Board was willing to give them a permit and some time to come into full compliance with the BOD issues.

Or maybe its better to continue producing that same pulp somewhere else, out of sight and out of mind, even though unlike the Samoa plant, most of those plants use a chlorine bleaching process that spews dioxins, among the most toxic man-made chemicals.

We need manufacturing jobs in Eureka. We don’t need government sponsored pollution on the peninsula. West Eureka and the ocean get the pollution. Politically connected union bosses get the big money. A few workers will get union contracts. High paid workers will be imported from Canada or China. Lots of workers will be hired through temp agencies.

Fantasy, not. I am describing what happened last time around. Why will this time be different?

and three years from now we will hear the same old promises and excuses, and the pollution and taxpayer subsidies will go on and on……

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm

No its called Freshwater PULP. look again .
Worked there all my life, What you’ve said so far about who gets hired and whats what.WRONG

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 12:38 pm

Sorry Freshwater tissue Pulp division

Little Buddha

July 16, 2010 at 12:42 pm

We should embrace our own rhetoric and support what could be a groovy, greenish turnaround for our area. Making the perfect the enemy of the good is Neo-Luddite.

Lodgepole

July 16, 2010 at 12:48 pm

“…groovy, greenish turnaround…” You’re totally fucking joking right?

CheeseDick

July 16, 2010 at 1:15 pm

So now our water rates will go down, no?
Really? Why not?

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 1:24 pm

Why should the mill pay your water bill? The dams have already been pay for by them.

CheeseDick

July 16, 2010 at 1:53 pm

Because a large portion of the domestic (treated) water system requires a contribution from the mill(s).

The treated system is too much for our little needs.

When Crown Simpson (et al) bailed on us, we were left holding the bag (the dam, the industrial system, the infrastructure and the staff).

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 1:59 pm

After 40 years ? I dont think So.
Why should a group of investers come to the mill , If they have to pay for your water use . The system has been paid for by the mills already. You guys complain about the goverment subsidizing the mill. Then you want the mill to subsidize your bill. LOL !

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm

And the mill water comes from an intake further up stream and is not treated at all.

CheeseDick

July 16, 2010 at 2:13 pm

I do not disagree with you on the subsidy dichotomy.
I personally thought HBMWD should have abandoned all industrial infrastructure and gave back the rights to the state when the last mill walked.

Let’s cross our fingers and see how long Freshwater will last and what happenes when they eventually walk away.

btw, do you know if they have to uncap the outfall or was it left open?

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 2:31 pm

Its open. It stayed in-use with fairhaven power.

Anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 2:37 pm

Its open because Freshwater is buying water to keep it open. Without that flow Fairhaven Power can’t produce enough to keep it open.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 16, 2010 at 3:30 pm

Is their a “fine schedule” to accomodate the 3 year process to become compliant? What is the penalty for failing to meet cease and desist order requirements?

Don’t get me wrong, I would like to see this business plan work. Yet, it will take 3 years of profits to pay for the needed turbidity and water quality improvements. Anyhow, my fingers are crossed because I still don’t believe that the financial figures pan out with or without the tax deferrment kickback scheme that other businesses did not get too. Fascism is all you need to know.

Simpson is a traitor and a liar- he forged air pollution documents before and can’t be trusted. I pray God works in his life to bring him the great shame he deserves for working with the communist chinese to kill Americans and dump pollution into the bay.

Oldphart

July 16, 2010 at 4:00 pm

Well, Hiboltage, I guess we should all quit sending our shit out to the ocean.
Smoke one for me and ponder that.

oldest fart

July 16, 2010 at 4:52 pm

Black Flag is missing something…. not the brightest bulb in town

Eurekan for a Healthy Community

July 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm

Where were all the progressives and environmentalists?
Embarrassing for Humboldt County to have only two people there to speak against this outrage. No one seems to care. Maybe when the toxic fumes hit them when they open the door in the morning, they will care.

High Finance

July 16, 2010 at 6:11 pm

Maybe “Healthy Community” friends were standing in line at the post office for the SS checks or the welfare office for those checks.

For the rest of us working stiffs, reopening the plant will be the best (maybe the only) good economic news in a long time.

Every worker should all be very worried about the national & local economic news. We are heading for another 5 years of very bad times.

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 6:17 pm

High Fi,
Well said !

Lodgepole

July 16, 2010 at 6:32 pm

“For the rest of us working stiffs, reopening the plant will be the best (maybe the only) good economic news in a long time.”

The stench of cancer causing chemicals is not good economic news.

the reasonable anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 7:15 pm

But as long as those cancer-causing chemicals are happening in Louisiana, or Vietnam, that’s just fine, we’ll keep on using the pulp products and just not think about the impact, because it will remain out of sight and out of mind.

Even though the vast majority of those pulp plants in Louisiana and Vietnam and all around the world use a choline bleaching process that produces lots of dioxin, one of the most toxic man-made chemicals and an incredibly potent carcinogen, whereas the Samoa plant uses a chorine-free process that doesn’t produce dioxin, we’ll still squeal about the pollution here and not give a damn about the pollution our consumption of pulp products produces elsewhere.

NIMBY much?

the reasonable anonymous

July 16, 2010 at 7:16 pm

chlorine.

west side story

July 16, 2010 at 7:26 pm

Living with a view of the mill many residents can tell you where it’s smokey residue drifts. When there isn’t a breeze or wind it covers Eureka. Other times it blows onto Arcata or the other way towards Table Bluff and Humboldt Hill. It is disturbing to know that the plant is allowed to open without being completely brought up to date. Pollution of air, ground water or the ocean should not be accepted.

Lodgepole

July 16, 2010 at 7:31 pm

That’s quite a strawman TRA. I have no idea what “NIMBY much” means, but I reckon you’ll tell me…

really, there is no market for bleached kraft pulp, mills are still closing around the world, any sales of this will have to be heavily subsidized.

this mill’s production will not replace any production around the world, the costs of running this mill would be higher even if the employees worked for free.

this mill has been government subsidized for years, and has been given environmental break after break.

it has failed to pay enormous fines and avoided them by declaring bankruptcy. Now you want to start the cycle over again.

the people of eureka deserve clean air, the fishermen deserve a clean ocean to fish in, we all need a clean planet more than we need more cardboard boxes for cheap chinese imports.

the hearing was held in Santa Rosa for a reason, to keep it hidden and make it hard to attend. Hold another one here in West Eureka and see what happens.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 7:56 pm

High guy;
Wrong again. The market price on bleached is at one of its best prices ever.
Subsidized how ?
Talking B.S

And a NIMBYIST,,,,,
NOT IN MY BACK YARD,,,
Cleanist still isnt good enough for you guys.
And Santa Rosa is the main conference site .
Sooooo , Keep up the lies it helps !

Eurekan for a Healthy Community

July 16, 2010 at 7:56 pm

Evergreen still owes $900,000. They have paid nothing. We continue to subsidize this old toxic mill. Check out the letter from the Office of Enforcement on the Water Board site.

Focke Wulf

July 16, 2010 at 8:04 pm

Millions upon millions of dollars have been spent bringing the pulp mill up to the highest environmental standards applicable in the state of California, arguably the toughest in the nation. Yet this is still not enough for the likes of “peaceful- day Bill”. Why don’t you just chill out, smoke a couple more bong bowls of weed,and let the working people get back to work so that you won’t miss your welfare check.

You want us to shut up so that Freshwater “Tissue” can get its welfare check from the federal government?

This is corporate welfare, just like it was with Evergreen Pulp.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 8:07 pm

West side is a big NIMBYist.

And you get more exposure to cancer chemicals from the the car you drive. Then you get in the air from the mill. We all dont have cancer that worked there all are lives. We employ safety and control ,reguardless of what the NIMBYS claim.

A little stink now and then, NO more dangerous than smelling a skunk.

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 8:08 pm

high ‘
YOU claim it so prove it how and where is the mill subsidized.

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 8:15 pm

Eurekan,
The fines are owed by Evergreen. Nothing to do with Freshwater.
And most of you dont understand that standards change every year. Then your fined .YOU fix it .Then it happens again next year . THATS industry and how it works for all. Look up some other place like PGE. even the city water treament plant . Guess what they have fines also .

Lodgepole

July 16, 2010 at 8:18 pm

It won’t operate within the boundaries of law, that could be considered a subsidy. After all, it would cost money to comply with the law.

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 8:20 pm

Lodge’
Operating with a permit is the law . Guess who has a permit to operate ?

Enterprise zone funding is a direct subsidy. Evergreen Pulp was subsidized through the Enterprize Zone program. Is Freshwater tissue going to turn down the Enterprize Zone subsidy?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Jacqbear

July 16, 2010 at 8:44 pm

First of all, lay off the Chinese bashing. The owners of Evergreen worked really hard to raise the antipollution standard at the mill. And in the early days of imports from Japan “made in Japan” was the equivalent of “cheap and crappy”; now look who has the last laugh. The “dollar…” stores also seem to be doing pretty well.

The stench from the pulp mill isn’t not worse than the smell of skunk. It’s acridly toxic. Prior to the Evergreen incarnation, living in Eureka was warned against because it stinks. Evergreen did slip one day and believe me it was hard to breathe the stench. Let’s hope Freshwater does as well or better so it never stinks.

Apparently we’re about to find out.

In these days of advanced technology and science, it seems to me that there ought to be ways to have industry without pollution. That’s what’s needed and should be demanded. If government subsidies achieve that, then government should pay up.

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 8:50 pm

Deduction of intrest on loans ?
Hiring tax credits ?
Same as most any other business deductions.
And that is nation wide to all buiness.
O did you get a break on your home loan again this year ? I mean was your house, goverment subsidized through tax breaks ?

Freshwater Pulp spokesman Bob Simpson is going to give Congressman Mike Thompson a presentation on the Future of Evergreen Pulp with a business plan/vision this weekend. If you are past worker of the plant with hopes of returning to work there, you should call Mike’s office and let them know you support Freshwater’s plan”

so Plain Truth the question is Did Simpson get some subsidies or not? Is Freshwater Tissue sucking on the teat of federal stimulus money? It seems like he sure is asking for them. At any rate you must admit why I am asking the question, it is not a question in a vaccuum.

I thought all you Republicans were against borrowing and spending government money. I thought government “doesn’t create jobs.”

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bolithio

July 16, 2010 at 9:52 pm

Pollution is debt we all must pay. You cant deny that the way this mill will work, will be way beyond the standards of most states, certainly other countries. Conservative or not, our government subsidizes elements of industry that create things our society requires to operate. Paper while easily taken for granted is one of those things.

Plaintruth

July 16, 2010 at 9:59 pm

high ‘
your high !
Just more blah blah.
you wont admit its all normal tax code stuff every buisness in america gets.
And you wont deny you take those same breaks at tax time also,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

oldest fart

July 16, 2010 at 10:23 pm

Plaintruth….you’re spot on…eventually,Highboltage will have to recognize his twisted mindset.

The cease and desist order is a huge gift to the pulp mill. It has a huge list of deadlines. It will all cost the Water Board and the state of California a huge amount of money and time to administer. And then there will be the missed deadlines and the extensions, etc. etc. It will be an enforcement nightmare. They will not be in full compliance until February 2014 unless of course they ask for more extensions.

dedicated westenderl

July 16, 2010 at 10:41 pm

The reason more enviros were not at the hearing in Santa Rosa is that, in addition to the distance and cost of travel, there was a complete media blackout on what has been going on at the pulp mill this year. We wrote my words and letters to the press but they were ignored and shelved. Additionally, everyone we told about it said that Simpson would never be able to pay his fines and that he has no $$$ to start up. Well, I guess he found a way to get his cake and eat it too. The westenders have a blog that informed us minute by minute and it is full of all the details chronologically if you care to know, at westeureka@weebly.com.

Ed

July 17, 2010 at 12:09 am

“pollution is debt we all must pay” That’s the ideology we have to deal with. Even Nixon new that pollution was somebody’s profit. What’s wrong with corporations being responsible for cleaning up their own messes Bolithio? Is that what you think about BP?

Since you right wing trolls persist in calling social security “welfare” I invite any business in Humboldt who doesn’t want to serve social security recipients to just post up a sign saying “social security recipients not welcome here.”

I promise you we won’t bother you any more.

Go find yourself.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plain Jane

July 17, 2010 at 7:53 am

Good one, Bill. You might also add that right wing business and rental property owners should refuse Medicare, Medi-Cal, food stamps, WIC vouchers and rent subsidies.

Ne'er-do-well

July 17, 2010 at 7:55 am

My prediction: This mill has to compete against mills in other countries that have no environmental restrictions and pay their employees next to nothing. To remain competitive and still provide the level of profit the owners demand, the union workers will have to take major cuts in wages and benefits or be asked to disband and work as contractors with no benefits. That smell is the smell of money, remember?

Bolithio

July 17, 2010 at 8:34 am

First of all, the release of BOD (organic sugars) into the ocean isnt even in the same universe as the failed BP well in the Gulf of Mexico. I cant even belive you guys are trying to compare BP to the pulp mill here. Arguably one of the ‘greenest’ mills by process on the planet, and people are asserting that somehow BOD (that is what comes out the pipe 1 mile out in the Pacific Ocean), a biochemical sugar, equates to the toxic properties of crude oil. (there are over 20 years of studies documenting the effects of this. The so-called dead zone is a flat LIE. BOD basically chums fish. Ask some our fishing fleet about fishing near the out fall)

Pollution is a debt we all must pay. You dont understand that? You, all of you, contribute to this toxic world we live in. Unless you live completely cut off from all of this (which if your blogging you dont), you use oil, plastic, paper, etc… Its not about greed, corporations, or personal philosophy or politics. Its about reality. There are all those negative elements in mankind, but that does not excuse those who dont agree with those bad things. Your philosophy in your view may be superior, but you still contribute. You drive a car. You are typing on a plastic keyboard – made in china by a 8 year old, shipped on a dirty diesel steamer, and trucked here to your convince. Yes, the BP disaster is a burden we all are responsible for.

This statement does not make me some corporate sympathizer, so dont go there. Im not cheer leading for them, nor do I feel BP does not have to be responsible for their liability, being the billion dollar company. Im just saying I acknowledge my part in all of this. You should too.

—-

The Samoa Pulp Mill, is finally coming around. The hundreds of millions of dollars invested into the mill to raise its enviornmental standards beyond any mills on the west coast alone is cause to celebrate. Not to mention the jobs. Not to mention the huge opportunity in restorative forestry a pulp mill will provide this county. If the plan is to make a local tissue product that we can all use, and not acquire from other, less regulated mills and forests, why poo-poo?

NANAIMO — Workers at Nanaimo’s troubled Harmac pulp mill have the opportunity to look south to sunny California for long-term and stable employment.

By Times Colonist (Victoria) November 3, 2007 Be the first to post a comment

NANAIMO — Workers at Nanaimo’s troubled Harmac pulp mill have the opportunity to look south to sunny California for long-term and stable employment.

The Evergreen pulp mill, located in northern California, is looking for experienced pulp mill workers and has begun a recruitment campaign in areas where mills have closed or are in trouble.

Rex Bohn, vice-president of Evergreen, said the mill has an aging workforce and is looking for resumés from new workers with the required skills needed to work in a pulp mill to have on file as its current employees retire.

“We’re reaching out to areas where people have been laid-off and want to get back to work, or are just looking for work in a new location,” he said.

“We’ve hired sawmill workers in the past, but we need people with the skills to operate machines such as bleach plants and digesters that are specific to pulp mills.”

Bohn said the Evergreen mill is owned by a Chinese company and is the second largest producer of cardboard in China, so the work is secure and mill workers don’t face the same uncertainty that workers at the Harmac mill.

Harmac’s owners, Pope & Talbot, are in deep financial trouble and the Oregon-based company is now working under court-ordered creditor protection until it restructures itself or sells its assets.

Bohn said Evergreen’s owners are also in the market for more pulp mills in North America so employment opportunities with the company may increase.

“However, we know it’s not easy for Canadian workers to work in the U.S. so anyone interested should look into the work-visa process,” he said.

They imported a few Chinese engineers to steal the pulp technology before they screwed everyone didn’t they? The whole Evergreen experience was more like technology espinonage and theft than anything else. Enabled by our local right wing Republicans no less.

I seem to remember the paper workers union was upset about it. Maybe I can find an article.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

west side story

July 17, 2010 at 10:29 am

Just what we need to do pollute our air and water and cut down native trees so we can have toilet paper. So a few workers can have a job? This is so backwoods thinking when other businesses retrain workers for other jobs when they have an obsolete business.

U.S. Papermaker’s ‘Black Liquor’ Tax Credit Expired, Other Subsidies Available
The recent expiration of the huge black-liquor subsidy, an alternative fuels tax credit in the 2005 highway bill, isn’t stopping the U.S. forest-products industry from tapping taxpayers’ money in other ways.

Three-fourths of the pulp and paper companies that received U.S. black-liquor tax credits are signed up to benefit from another biofuel subsidy, the new Biomass Crop Assistance Program (BCAP).

Various paper companies are also getting government help to reduce reliance on fossil fuels, using state grants funded by federal economic-stimulus programs. Recently, Maine awarded $2 million to Verso Paper’s Bucksport mill and smaller amounts to five other paper companies for investments in such projects as heat recovery and biomass boilers. Also, Wisconsin made similar energy-efficiency grants totaling about $5 million to four paper companies.

BCAP is nowhere near as generous as the black-liquor credits, and the benefits to paper mills and other buyers of biomass will be indirect and uncertain. Last year International Paper earned more in black-liquor subsidies than it made from selling actual products. Boosted by a $517 million appropriation for the first quarter of 2010, the program provides subsidies to suppliers rather than users of biomass.

By being BCAP-approved sites, biomass users – such as paper mills that burn bark, limbs and sawdust to fire their boilers – will presumably be able to buy at less-than-market prices. As with the black-liquor credits, critics are already complaining that BCAP will distort markets in a way that unfairly hurts some businesses without doing much for the environment.

If Dioxin is so toxic, why hasn’t anybody been poisoned by it during all the years the pulp mills were in operation using the chlorine process? Why didn’t the people croak who ate seafood caught in our local bay and ocean waters? I think this whole dioxin scare is just another made-up media scare story.

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 10:58 am

Highbold’
Your to off on the info you think you understand.
Just like Westend and the Eurekan. Mixed up, half truths full of misleading story telling.

The mills past and present . Did and do things the same as all other buiness in america.(Tax breaks)

This mill however it got there.Is one of the cleanist mills in the world.
And the STATE has permited them to run.That makes them LEGAL By any measure.
There is no conspiracy To poison the ocean or the good people of Humbolt.
I worked there , And were all pretty healthy . Shift work has its own health problems. Butt, whos not tired after a day or night of WORKING for my money.
For a few here. I’m a Dem Leaning , enviro-minded ,American . Rasising family here and loving its beauty. Its health ,your health my Familys health IS important. I wouldnt want to work there if I thought different about what the mill does to the enviroment.
Yes theres a price .
Butt thats just it.
There is a price,life isnt free .
Thats Plain truth.

the reasonable anonymous

July 17, 2010 at 11:01 am

From wikipedia:

“The polychlorinated dibenzodioxins, which can also be classified in the family of halogenated organic compounds, have been shown to bioaccumulate in humans and wildlife due to their lipophilic properties, and are known teratogens, mutagens, and carcinogens.”

“In 1997 it was classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer as a carcinogen for humans (group 1)”

Fortunately, the Samoa plant uses a non-chlorine process that does not produce dioxin. The production of pulp at Samoa will reduce the production of dioxin elsewhere. Of course that only matters if you care whether people elsewhere get cancer and other diseases.

Anonymous

July 17, 2010 at 11:04 am

Peaceful Bill at 7:37 above makes the point so beautifully. People who bad-mouth Social Security shouldn’t do business with people whose money comes from Social Security. Brilliant!

Anonymous

July 17, 2010 at 11:13 am

Well, if Wikipedia says something, it must be so.

Back here in Eureka, none of my friends dropped dead of dioxin poisoning. How can that be true if dioxin is one of the deadliest poisons on the face of the earth, as our wonderful media keeps telling us it is?

O, I forgot, “we don’t need no stinkin’ science” is the motto of the willfully ignorant .

Nope, Anonymous just bases everything on anecdotal evidence that no one Anon knows “dropped dead of dioxin poisoning.” Well, no one I know has “dropped dead of tobacco poisoning” either. But since tobacco contains potent carcinogens, it can cause cancer. Same with dioxin. It’s an endocrine disruptor, mutagen and a carcinogen, meaning it adds to your risk of developing cancer and other diseases.

But I suppose the very concept of carcinogens and the risk of developing cancer is just the result of another sinister conspiracy of scientists, just like the theory that massively increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere causes climate change. If I can’t see it, it must not exist…

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 11:49 am

Yes science good . Me like science.
So look at the science as it relates to this mill only .The research from Humdolt state is a good start
Keep in mind that violations are a tool for improvement of a process. And you will find this mill stands very high in the world for its process and pollution control.
But the NIMBY’s say what ?

Freshwater “Tissue” needs to post a performance bond to reimburse the cost of demolishing the mill and restoring the natural landscape when this government subsidized toxic nightmare collapses once again.

Who will pay to tear it down?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 11:53 am

The comprehensive receiving water study completed by Humboldt State University in 1994 provided Louisiana-Pacific with sufficient data to compel the company to make environmental changes to the Samoa mill. The data ultimately led to an extension of the outfall line, installation of steam stripping, and it revealed the need to make significant changes to the Samoa mill spill prevention plan. The success of these improvements is evidenced by the results of the later two studies conducted by ENSR and CH2MHILL.

1995 John Hopkins Study – Health Profile Of Pulp Workers (2 mb)

Study concludes, “The results of the study indicate that all workers in the pulp and paper industry do not have significantly higher rates of mortality from all causes or from any specific cause of death compared to the US population and, in fact, usually have significantly lower mortality ratios than the comparison population.”

Study concludes, “Evaluation of the available data, including statistical, graphical, and tabular comparisons, indicates that no significant increase in sediment contaminants or bioaccumulation has occurred as a result of the discharges. Furthermore, there is no evidence that benthic infauna or epibenthic fish and invertebrate communities have been adversely affected by the discharge. These findings are consistent with the improvements resulting from the outfall extension and changes in plant processes.”

2007 CHM2Hill Receiving Water Study (8 mb)

Study concludes, “The data collected over the course of this study do not suggest that the Mill’s discharge has the potential to negatively affect DO (a measure of BOD) or sediment quality in the receiving water under the range of typical discharge conditions. This is consistent with the findings expected because of the nature of the discharge, prior receiving water studies, plume modeling, and DO depression estimates.”

I would like to thank those of you who continue to support the reopening of the Samoa mill. To our opposition, we ask you to cast your judgement by our performance and we welcome your comments, even when they are uninformed.

We are doing our best to be transparent. We have posted our business plan and independent scientific studies on our website. We have addressed the concerns of State and Federal regulatory agencies, environmental advocacy groups, labor unions, political leaders and the community. We have stated our position on Biochemical oxygen demand (BOD), C02, and pulp mill odors.

The Samoa mills BOD has never been a pollution issue. In fact, it is a regulatory issue that does not apply to our particular situation. Nevertheless, because the Samoa mill has been unable to comply with the limits set by EPA, Freshwater agreed to take the necessary steps to minimize BOD.

BOD can be an issue in rivers and lakes where oxygen depletion can kill fish. In the case of the Samoa mill, BOD presents no oxygen depletion issues in the Pacific Ocean and scientific studies have proven there is “no” detectable oxygen depletion. In 45 years of operation nobody has turned up with a dead fish linked to the Samoa mill BOD. And for those of you who compare BOD to the recent oil spill, you are polluting this blog with pulp fiction.

It is non-sensical to regulate the Samoa mill BOD dispersed into the Pacific Ocean 1.5 miles off shore at 110 feet of deapth with tidal action, currents and waves to the same limit as an Oregon pulp mill dispersing BOD into the Willamette River (Oregon). The analogy that comes to mind is imposing the same speed limit on Highway 101 at confusion hill to the German autobahn.

The history of violations of the Samoa Pulp Mill is all there in the public records. Each new owner runs the mill until the regulators or lawsuits get to them and then there is a change of ownership or a bankruptcy and then they are gone. Evergreen suddenly reorganized into Worthy Pick. I am not sure how Freshwater bought the plant without paying the $900,000 Evergreen owes the Water board. The fine is supposed to follow the property.

As for toxins, they are also part of the public record. It is not just about BODs and TSS. The mill site is a toxic cleanup site. The water tests are on the Water Board’s Geotracker site. The wells on the mill site have pages and pages of chemicals that are listed by the state of California as known causes of cancer and birth defects. These include hexavalent chromium, nickel, arsenic, manganese, etc. etc. It is all there in the public record. If you look at the
permit, there is a long list of chemicals that Freshwater must test for -especially DDT and aldrin which have been found in the wastewater.

As for cancer, it is tricky to point to an exact cause, but it doesn’t take a too much of a brain to put together the known cancer causing chemicals that are emitted from that mill and people we know with cancer. If you have worked at that mill or lived near it and have not got cancer, thank God, because other people have not been so lucky.

The water permit and the cease and desist order don’t bring the mill into compliance until February 2014.

I don’t know the trick for posting links but the addresses for the info are there.
Dioxins may not be the only culprit but you can bet, based on their toxicity and prevalence in our area, they’re a major factor.

I’m glad Freshwater Pulp is at least doing lip service to a clean operation. But let’s proceed VERY carefully. No industry is worth having your kid or spouse develope cancer.

As to the water, the old mills were paying the cost of the infrastructure needed to deliver HUGE amounts of water. That infrastructure is still there and still needs maintaining and paying for if it is to continue to exist. Part of that cost is shared with us, the domestic users. Simply abandoning that infrastructure does not relieve us from all the associated costs. So with no mill, some costs could go down but others will go up. tain’t fair but it’s so.

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 1:50 pm

Thank you ! Mr Simpson.

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 1:52 pm

West
more blah, blah,
Dont you ever listen to a word said by anyone ?

Sorry for my french ,,,,Fricken NIMBY !

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 1:54 pm

Mouse
NO Dioxins made by the mills process .

oldest fart

July 17, 2010 at 2:03 pm

Bob…thank you for stepping up to the plate… also, for your commitment to be transparent and keeping the misinformed informed. again, thanks

Plaintruth

July 17, 2010 at 3:16 pm

See how much time go’s by , before the misleading NIMBYS come back with some long winded post. All out mixed up truths ,with pure B.S over laying the facts. Is what to expect next. Watch ,,,, NIMBY say what ?

News: Heavy fine likely for former pulp mill owner By John Driscoll The Times-StandardAuthor(s): Eureka Times-Standard
Date: May 05, 2005

On April 22, North Coast water quality officials quietly proposed fining the all but dead company that once owned the Samoa pulp mill $1.7 million for polluting water off the North Spit.

The potentially huge penalty recommended against Stockton Pacific Enterprises — which in February sold the operation to Evergreen Pulp Inc. — is the result of a history of violations outlined by the North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board from August 2003 to March 2005.

The complaint for administrative civil liabilities includes minimum penalties and accounts for the benefit the board says Stockton Pacific received by avoiding the cost of building a secondary water treatment facility.

“There’s been a history of violations,” said water board watershed protection division engineer Robert Tancreto, “but nothing like what happened under Stockton Pacific.”

He said at times the effluent limits in the mill’s permits were exceeded by three, four and five times, largely because the mill began pumping out record volumes of pulp. The production couldn’t be sustained within its permitted limits without a treatment facility estimated to cost $15 million, he said.

Stockton Pacific, a cash-poor investment group, may never have been in a position to fund such an improvement, though former owner Louisiana-Pacific Corp. was long thought to be liable for building the facility. It’s not known if L-P remains liable.

L-P and Samoa Pacific reportedly tried to operate the mill so that its own internal controls largely kept the mill in compliance.

Should the nine-member water board adopt the order — it has significant leeway to increase penalties above what the complaint calls for — it is not clear it could collect the fine. The board can try to add muscle by turning over the complaint to the California Attorney General’s Office.

Stockton Pacific apparently has no officers and no board and no assets not under lien. Evergreen bought the promissory notes secured by Stockton Pacific’s assets earlier this year, but has yet to buy at auction the real estate and major equipment. That’s expected to happen in July. But Chicago bank PPM Finance has a lien on those assets, and it’s unclear if a second lien by the water board or the attorney general would take precedence.

Steve Fleischer, who was CEO of Evergreen, said the mill violated limits for what’s termed biological oxygen demand — BOD — on a number of occasions. But he insists the water board knew this because the company reported it, first on a weekly, then on a daily basis.

Fleischer said Stockton Pacific worked with the water board to reduce its BOD and get waivers on the permit limits.

“The economic viability of the mill depended on that level of production,” Fleischer said. “We had no alternatives.”

Tancreto said he did not know if violations are ongoing under the new ownership. The water board complaint lists March 2, 2005, as the end of the period of violation — after Evergreen took over operations — but no specific violations are listed within several months of that late date.

Asked why such a large potential penalty wasn’t announced publicly, Tancreto said there was no reason for it to be.

Evergreen CEO David Tsang did not return the Times-Standard’s phone call on short notice Wednesday.

Another former CEO and president, Brent Hawkins, who left the mill in January 2004 and was not aware of the water board action, said the mill was always close to its BOD limit, although “sometimes a bad day would put us over for the month.”

He said the mill was working on a project with the federal Environmental Protection Agency to reduce other pollutants to offset its BOD difficulties.. The idea behind it was that BOD levels are set to protect inland waterways like lakes and rivers from being depleted of oxygen, where effluent is far more concentrated than it would be in the strong currents of the Pacific Ocean. BOD can also be an indicator for other pollutants.

Tancreto said that project died for lack of interest.

Hawkins said that a secondary treatment facility would have come with byproducts, like sludge that would have to be trucked out of the area to a landfill.

He also said that the violations were no secret, having been reported to the water board regularly.

“Why did they wait until now to post a fine that they know will never be paid?” Hawkins said.

Water board legal counsel Erik Spiess said it may be possible to put a lien on Stockton Pacific’s remaining assets, and it’s also possible the board could amend the complaint to include individual owners or operators of the mill.

At present, Spiess said, “There isn’t any intent to go after the individuals.”

The water board is expected to hear the complaint in June, though no hearing date has been set. The board’s action is separate from an ongoing investigation by the Humboldt County District Attorney’s Office.

Hi bold tage’
Ahhhh what ?
O thats right . Long winded half truths with a lot of fiction . I get it . A NIMBY dream story .
Keep up the good work( LOL).
Waiting for the next ill-informend ramble. West side thats your que,Eurekan ,or a few kids at the school could jump in now.

“A draft of a Health risk assessment of Evergreen Pulp dated October 2006, never shared with the public in the two years it continued to operate, states: “The modeled cancer health risk at point of maximum impact (PMI) is above the threshold limits established by the California Air Toxics Hot Spots program….The acute health risk exceeds the North Coast Unified Air Quality Management District threshold because of the estimated acrolein emissions from the pulp dryer….Of the toxic air contaminants, hexavalent chromium contributes the most cancer risk….Acrolein [a pulmonary irritant] is the greatest contributor to chronic and acute risks, accounting for 99.6% of the acute hazard index.””

Richard Marks:

“I worked around that pulp dryer for about 10 years. I had no idea that it produced Hexavalent Chromium and sure wish we had it monitored.
I agree that regulatory agencies did not do a proper job at monitoring or enforcing the penalities that may have stopped further violations when Evergreen had the plant. They had over 200 violations of Water Quality waste that will never be collected on since Lee and Man took their football home with them to China.”

How about those folks in Myrtletown who don’t want a legal marijuana dispensary in their neighborhood? NIMBY or not? It is next door to a smoke shop, a liquor store, a bar and a tattoo parlor. Oh and a fast food stand.

Given the comments on this blog, I will commit tonight to creating a Freshwater blog where the public can ask any question, remain anonymous if you wish, and receive our honest answers. This will allow the public to confer with regulators, or any other credible source, and that doesn’t mean your local dispensary, to determine whether you are receiving the truth. In the meantime, keep these blogs coming, as I am truly enjoying Humboldt’s version of Pulp Fiction.

Loan Guarantees are available right now through the U.S.D.A. The guarantee is 60% of the loan with a capacity of $25 million. The problem is, not a single bank will loan against the guarantee. Banks are primarily cash flow lenders today. They don’t want the bad PR of foreclosing. Even though they are guarantee of being repaid they won’t make the loan. Why should they. Banks borrow from the Fed at less than 1% and buy Treasury Bills which yield 2-3%. The banks double their money with no risk, and the Government is able to sell its treasury bills. This results in the devaluation of the dollar, which in turn makes our products more exportable. Didn’t our President say he wanted to double exports within 5 years?

Have you asked the federal government to guarantee loans for you? Have you or your supporters lobbied Rep Thompson for some kind of loan guarantee?

I guess I need to ask a more specific question. Transparency can be slippery sometimes.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Lounge act

July 17, 2010 at 7:11 pm

Hi bold ‘
Witch hunt or real questions ?
You get answers than re-ask . Pretend you dont get an answer , And wow you got some point .
Just like that blog People against the mill. State some half truth pretend its not answered. Then run around repeating BS . It gets answered . THen wait till people fad back then start over with BS,
Sicko’s are worse than wall street or the congress .

Mr. Simpson must be stumped by your question. Good one highboltage !!!!!

Lounge act

July 18, 2010 at 12:14 am

No , were just tired of your never ending circle of jerk off questions.West side and you Highbold . If I new you in person. I’M sure dispite my best attempt, to try to befriend you . In the end I would have to just scream and try real hard to not beat your asses for being such ignorant dunb fuckes

Lounge act

July 18, 2010 at 12:17 am

O have a peacful day.

dedicated westender

July 18, 2010 at 1:23 am

Plain Truth: When you die of cancer, the doc does not know if it was caused by dioxin or some other or a combo of chemicals, bacteria and toxins. Tests may show evidence of high and low levels of some chemicals in the blood or tissues. We are bombarded and invaded by something like 600 chemicals in our bodies that did not get in our bodies before the 20th century. Given all that inside pollution, much of it already identified as carcinogenic or cancer-causing, we are not interested in exposing ourselves and our children to more. Also, children are termed “sensitive receptors” because they are damaged more by carcinogenic chemicals than adults are.

You have asked a fair question. As you know, Freshwater first intended to convert the Samoa mill to an integrated tissue mill that would produce consumer-ready toilet paper. At that time Freshwater was seeking a Federal Loan Guarantee similar to what the Government did for Tesla Auto. Tesla is now building a plant in Fremont, Ca. We were denied the guarantee because we didn’t fit the vision for the new green economy. We gave up on the loan guarantee primarily because banks deem than valueless. If a loan guarantee was a useable instrument, I would acccept it without reservation. For your information, Tesla found the guarantee did not help their cause so they recently launched a public offering. I often ask myself, how many Walmart employees can afford a Tesla?

AIG, Banks, Investment Banks, and auto companies received direct loans from the Government. The U.S. Treasury Department made the loans in return for equity and a secured interest in the company. This action marked the first time our Government has ever taken an equity position in a private enterprise. The government’s response to public criticism was “Too Big to Fail”.

In response to “Westside”, if you tell the truth you are never stumped. Oh my god… I used the word stump. Now the blog will accuse me of clear cutting! We can leave that blog topic for a different day.

Again, my promise is to start a Freshwater blog. It won’t be today, but soon. The blog will not be called Bill & Bob because it isn’t about me or Bill. It is about “community trust”.

You have been lobbying heavily for Rep Mike Thompson to give Freshwater Tissue a congressional exemption from the Environmental Protection Act (or is it the Clean Water Act?). Did Thompson push this through for you and if he did where can we find this exemption.

Without this exemption you can’t run the plant, at least that is what I gather from your website.

“ATLANTA, GA, May 29, 2009 (RISI) – The entire pulp and paper industry is still a buzz about the black liquor tax credit, which is currently teetering on being eliminated. Some pulp and paper companies are continuing to reap the benefits of the black liquor tax credit but President Obama and his administration appear to be prepped and ready to end the billions of dollars of credits and direct payments being paid to the pulp and paper industry.

This tax provision was originally intended to promote alternative fuels for motor vehicles. The alternative fuels provision, which began as part of a 2005 highway bill and later expanded in the 2007 energy bill, said that any company mixing alternative fuels with traditional fossil fuels would qualify for a 50 cent per gallon tax credit. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that it would cost taxpayers a total of $61 million.

So now, pulp and paper companies are being richly rewarded for the long-standing practice of using black liquor, a byproduct of the wood pulping process, as a fuel to run mills since the 1930s. These pulp and paper companies, which had not applied for the benefits before the end of last year, have not needed to modify their existing business practices in any way in order to qualify for the tax breaks.

Companies began filing papers with the Internal Revenue Service to qualify, and payments and credits that were disbursed grew quickly. It was highly publicized that International Paper and Verso received a combined total of over $100 million due to the tax credit. It was also reported that Smurfit Stone could receive a payment of roughly $543 million. It was estimated by the Treasury department that if the energy bill is left unaltered, the provision would cost taxpayers about $4 billion a year, instead of $61 million as originally anticipated, for using “black liquor” as fuel.

As it stands now, the administration has rewritten the alternative fuel provision to exclude the paper industry for the fiscal year 2010 budget proposal. If approved by Congress, the provision will take effect October 1, 2009. “

Pulp Paper Prices Are Falling
And reports suggest that even greater pricing cuts are ahead, according to Deutsche Bank.

PULP PRICING IS DETERIORATING faster and more dramatically than we expected. China is the epicenter of the upheaval. Last week, [Chilean company] Arauco cut July prices by $40-$50 per metric ton on all grades. Trade reports suggest pressure for much larger cuts.

More recently, a major Russian player is reported to have cut prices far more dramatically than Arauco. These latter cuts are so sharp that we expect global reverberations over the next several days. How quickly will producers respond to falling prices? Without black liquor credits, some high cost U.S. mills may react more quickly than in first-quarter 2009. Although visible inventories appear to be in good shape, slower summer demand coupled with restarts in Europe & North America along with the June start-up of April’s Rizhao, China mills suggest a growing market imbalance. Lower prices seem certain. Earlier this month trade reports suggested that U.S. spot Northern bleached-softwood kraft fell $35 per metric ton (approximately 12% of Jun U.S. list price) to $870-$920 per metric ton.

The links to the studies you inquired about are on the main page of our website, http://www.freshwaterpulp.com Click the Icon labeled Environmental Facts. Each of the green lettered topics is linked to an article.

It would be a mis-charachterization to say that I have lobbied Mike Thompson “heavily” for a Congressional Variance from existing BOD regulations. In fact, I made one request to Liz Murguia in March of 2009, and I haven’t spoke to either Liz, Mike, or any other member of Mike’s staff for 7-8 months.

Freshwater doesn’t require a variance to run the Samoa mill. As part of the cease and desist order, Freshwater agreed to install a waste water treatment plant.

Mr. Simpson, it appears that you are paying only #150,000 per year on your $20,000,000 property. Do you think that is fair considering the resources (fire, police and infrastructure) that the taxpayers are paying for?

Maybe the samoa peninsula needs to be annexed into Eureka proper so the city can gain some tax revenue.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Highvoltage

July 18, 2010 at 8:47 am

Bill
I thing $150,000 is more than “fair” for a plant that is not currently generating any revenues. Furthermore, there will be far more paid when it comes time to get ready to operate via sales tax on parts & supplies, jobs (and a host of taxes for each one), and outside work for maintenance vendors. Your $150,000 grossly understates what the pulpmill puts into our community and shows your ignorance of how many ways companies are taxed just to keep the doors open.
I don’t know that Mr. Simpson will be able to get the skilled employees he needs, enough chips to support the operation, or sell the product at a price that is profitable; but those are the risks he takes as a business owner. We’ll never find out if people like you are so opposed to a business restarting, while buying paper products that pollute heavily somewhere else.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 18, 2010 at 8:48 am

Plaintruth @ 8:20 pm,

operating with a permit is not the law!

You have much ado to learn about life, politics and government. Don’t worry, I DO TOO!

For the posters I recognize – this “deal” is a fascist deal, one that says that government officials disagree with their own work. Afterall, the only REASON why a WAIVER would be issued temporarily IS because of fascist tax collection shortages or RECOGNITION THAT A LAW IS OBSTRUCTIONING.

Again, I hope the mill opens LEGALLY within the rules like MOST everyone else has had to do. Special schemes and fascist kickbacks are reprehensible.

The scary thing is this – people other than the employees themselves CARE about the jobs more so than the employees. Why? It is about finding ways to finangle any particular employee’s earnings out of their pockets into the pockets of local elitists and their ilk wannabes. It is not the end of the world if this mill does not last long. Take away the water cost arguments to other users and I bet less people give a fecal crud about re-opening the mill.

Let Freshwater Pulp build a secondary wastewater treatment plant BEFORE they restart the mill. That will create $26 million dollars of “real” jobs for our local construction trades and help the environment also.

Is it true that the Samoa mill is the only pulp mill in the US that DOESN’T have a secondary wastewater plant? Why is that?

I am only a couple of pages into the HSU study that you quote so often in support of the Freshwater Tissue plan, but I do see that the study was done in 1994 for Louisiana Pacific. At that time the 25 meter outfall was under construction, a diffuser was in place but the outfall was still not in use at the time of the study. L-P was of course still using the older shallower outfall but as the study notes no testing was completed in the vicinity of the old outfall.

I asked a simple question, did Rep Thompson obtain any kind of congressional waiver for you and if so where is it in the Congressional Record? Without it your BOD discharge easily exceeds EPA limits, as you yourself have noted.

My simple question deserves a simple answer in this wonderful new era of transparency.

As for the risks mr. simpson is taking, well if he is going after stimulus funding and federal loan guarantees I guess he like Goldman Sachs and Bank of America is taking no risk at all. The taxpayers are taking the risks.

As of course the history of the samoa pulp mill has proven at least 4 times now.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 18, 2010 at 9:17 am

Screw all unions, period.

The workers signed under union contracts are the type of people who can’t stand up for themselves as individuals. So, they pay extortion monies to a board full of mobster mentatlities who live a more fruitful life off the earnings of the union membership than the union members do who are paying the bills. The membership gets – less jobs, less security and no guarantees for future job security. Society gets higher costs that pad profits for the union board and business board/ownership class. In the meantime, costs are defensively propped upwards in society to cover the frauds and make people think they are worth more in economic value….just like what immigration and birth over-population in America is doing – raising costs for tax collection purposes.

Unions are part of the fascist set-up in America. Union members are weak-souled humans. Unions can burn!

Taxes and the IRS – How some of you link the pulp mill kickback scheme to that of a “tax break or credit” like that of a mortgage, etc… is amazing conjecture. This is exactly what the powers that be want you all to focus upon. They either “got you – hook, line and sinker” OR you are part of the scams as a beneficiary business or person seeking to gain monetary transactions or social power based on the monies that will be generated by the employees at the mill.

Social Security IS WELFARE! So, you don’t have to have a job. Now, who will match that SSI stipend that you would also pay out of your gross wages? Yep, did not think so. So, which men out there will impregnate a woman in the hopes of finding an employer who will be mandated by law to pay for 100% pregnancy leave for the female employee? Yep, now no more welfare babies. I can go on without losing any peace of mind.

The reality is to get rid of all the employer/employee tax frauds and make sure as an employee, you don’t work for less than it will cost to live in a society that has been engineered to raise cost for those few to profit from! Hence immigration – American workers are smarter than immigrants who still believe a dream exists. The dream is watered down to a point that which only filler laborers will understand. Then, when they get jacked too, they’ll represent another class of abused who “understand” fascism a wee bit more. Fascists prey on non-understanding laboerers!

I don’t share your sentiment “screw all unions” but I do recognize that unions can be just as corrupt as any other human organization like the political parties etc.

I have worked to unionize workers in the casino industry. I did this in conjunction with the Carpenters Union in Nevada. We actually won two elections at Nevada casinos!

Workers need unions, but of course they have to be relatively free of corruption to do their members any good.

I feel for the laid off pulp plant workers. Some of them have no doubt gone bankrupt, lost thier homes, certainly have health care problems.

Their union did have a lien placed on this $20 million dollar plant that would have paid for pensions, health care and some replacement income for the laid off workers, but alas it looks like thier union got talked into removing the waivers. Too bad.

Workers don’t need unions, period. Workers need not settle for anything less than they as an individual mandate. They will be hired or not, period! Any human being who is part of a union is inferior as a worker – they have no self-confidence in their ability to keep looking for a job that does not require “extortion and laundering payments by mobster mentalities”.

Unions take away from production too, as inefficient as unions are! As if a union job is A JOB. Get serious folks, nothing is being produced except for frauds and graftings of the laborers paycheck. Afterall, government WANTS a 100% unionized workforce for its cush fascist arrangements with industry and retail corporatists.

I am still laughing at unions…………I hope I am offending all union supporters!

to a degree, we agree to disagree. For some reason, every “good thing as proposed” with regard to unions is easily broken down to show opposite results.

Now, I have to ask this sweeping question in general, “do union members lack socio-economic and socio-political forsight abilities in so far as the economic connectibilities to their personal financial situations when lookng back over the years subsidizing unionization with government?”

JL

Mitch

July 18, 2010 at 10:30 am

HoJ,

Have you ever gone to historical worksites from the pre-union era? Say a slate mine in Wales, or a garment factory in Manhattan?

You might gain a different understanding of the purpose of unions.

Things have improved since then, certainly. That’s BECAUSE of unions. Even in non-union companies and non-unionized industries, the threat that a bad employer will end up with a unionized work force is often enough to cause the employer to dole out benefits nearly equivalent to what a unionized work force would get.

The fact that you can look around and think that unions are not needed is just a sign of the massive victories that unions have won for working people. Forty hour work week, sick leave, medical insurance, safer working conditions, on and on.

Having said that, does the existence of unions create new routes for lazy people to exercise their laziness? Sure. Lazy will always find a way. Blame laziness, not unions. If the unions weren’t around, the lazy folks would just be marrying into the boss’ family, or finding ways to blackmail their supervisors.

And one other sad point: the original goal of unions was solidarity amongst labor. There were unions that really worked towards this, like the IWW. (The Limbaughs and Becks of the time made sure the IWW was demonized as commuhnist, and therefore crippled.) But the unions that exist now, for the most part, are more focused on perks for their members than on creating a society that has more decency. But they’re still way better than nothing.

The IWW is still around, there is a local chapter.
There were actually three political bodies/individuals that supported my effort to raise the minimum wage in Eureka. The IWW, the Humboldt County Greens and Richard Marks.

Thanks to all of them for their support.

Later in the summer the Atkins/Clark campaign also added higher minimum wage to their campaign, but did not specifically endorse the minimum wage initiative. But thanks to them also for supporting the needs of low income workers here.

I agree with you Mitch, lots of unions bemoan the loss of membership and influence, but back in the day unions worked for the betterment of all workers, not just their narrow membership. The union movement needs to go back to the roots.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

July 18, 2010 at 10:41 am

Jeff
Most unions were formed many years before most of the current employes were hired in. Thats the general case across the nation. So to be hired in you must join that union . Calling them inferior workers,etc. Because they are in a union. WOW kinda lame.

the 2009 CH2HILL study that is cited here by Mr. Simpson is really funny.

Testing was done on two days, one in June and one in October. It turns out for the June test there was a mistake and the water column and the sediment deposits were tested at a distance of 500- 600 feet from the outfall diffuser. The tests were supposed to be of course on the water and sediment near the diffuser. I will translate for some of you: 5-600 feet is almost two (American) football fields away.

Once they discovered their error, did they retest? No. The October sedimentary test was cancelled due to inclement weather. So we have one sedimentary test from one day that occurred (by error) two football fields away from the discharge. WOW.

Since you project the value of Freshwater to be $50,000,000 plus at the end of five years, why not gift all 200 or so of the former mill workers with 10% of Freshwater right now? That way in five years they will have a cool $5,000,000 to split between them, and you will still have $40,000,000 profit at least.

Right now they have nothing……

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Freshinup

July 18, 2010 at 12:06 pm

“The impacts of pollution have never been more apparent and sickening, than the images televised from Beijing, China during the 2008 Summer Olympic Games. At present, China is willing to overlook pollution to expand its economy. The cost of their decision is unclear.

China is not the only developing country experiencing horrific pollution problems. Virtually every developing country selling products to the United States and other industrialized nations is suffering from environmental devastation. This includes Brazil, Chile, Indonesia, Mexico, Peru, Russia, and Vietnam. The common thread between these countries is cheap labor, unconstrained pollution, and U.S. consumer demand.

For the past three decades, the U.S. pulp and paper industry has struggled financially to comply with forestry regulations, conform to clean air and water quality standards, and absorb rising labor and health care costs. Because pulp and paper products are produced and traded globally, these costs cannot be passed through to the American consumer. In response, U.S. companies are closing operations, and relying on pulp producers in developing countries where inexpensive plantation timber is abundant, cheap labor is readily available, and pollution goes unchecked.

The new business model for U.S. tissue producers is to dispose of U.S. pulp mill assets, and serve as a converter, brander, and marketer of finished products. These converting companies install tissue converting plants around the world. They buy parent rolls of tissue paper from the least expensive supplier for reprocessing and packaging into finished products, such as tissue and toweling. They protect their markets through branding and advertising.

This new model allows U.S. pulp and tissue companies to sell or close their pulp mills, and effectively export jobs and industrial pollution to developing countries. From a purely economic position, this may improve financial results. From an environmental and social perspective, it is irresponsible.

During a recent meeting with Congressman Mike Thompson (D-CA), an executive of the Association of Western Pulp & Paper Workers (AWPPW) cited a situation in Bellingham, Washington, where a paper plant closed, and the employees were informed the mill could no longer compete in the global market. The equipment was sold, and put back into production in China. Everything was exported except the pollution controls!

FPC believes the responsible solution is to preserve U.S. regional markets for forest residuals, maintain a U.S. industrial base, minimize industrial pollution, provide U.S. family wage jobs, and impose global standards for pollution emissions.”

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 12:13 pm

Of course I and WE care about the health of familys. And your right we are your neighbors. Up untill the mill closed. I lived and raised my family on W-Grant. I worked in that mill 15yrs and 15 in another LP mill. I’ve seen NO greater than usual cancers in the mills.
No breathing problems with my kids or grandkids. None with my neighbors ever were expressed. And only on a few occasions were odors even detected. I,m sorry for you and yours health problems. BUT I submit that they are yours and not most others .
There for my statment of the few with complaints real or physco-sematic. Efecting the needs of so many now out of work ,,,STANDS
Most of us will now most likely have to move away to find work.Wich adds up to 1000’s of individuals effected for life.
The mill has been here since 64. ANd if you and yours feel it hurt you so bad. Then if you cared for your family you would have gotten them out of here years ago IF its as bad as you claim it to be . But you stayed WHY ?. But now we move so you can breath . Do I sound mad . Come and tell my kids in person why We are effected so much .when after a life time Working there . We must leave ,,When you didnt seem to care enough to move your family for their needs.

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 12:16 pm

1995 John Hopkins Study – Health Profile Of Pulp Workers (2 mb)

Study concludes, “The results of the study indicate that all workers in the pulp and paper industry do not have significantly higher rates of mortality from all causes or from any specific cause of death compared to the US population and, in fact, usually have significantly lower mortality ratios than the comparison population.”

The AWPPW supports reasonable tariffs on foriegn manufactures to support the domestic economy and I agree with them. Sure the cost of TP will go up a bit but companies will be able to afford to upgrade their factories to modern safe environmental standards and still remain competitive in the domestic market.

Since the pulp industry is highly unionized with workers with good medical bennies (at least up to the last few years) it would not be surprising to find that their general health is better than the average American worker, who of course has very poor health care.

Take the time to read the permit and the cease and desist order. It is all on line on the North Coast Regional Water Quality Board site.

Also of interest is a letter from the Office of Enforcement of the State Water Board dated July 9, 2010. It is also on the Water Board site.

“As you are no doubt aware, the Samoa Pulp Mill has a long history of violations stemming from the facilities inability to meet applicable effluent limitations due to its lack of secondary treatment.”

“Evergreen…defaulted on the liability payments to the Regional Water Board. To date, the regional Water Board has not been able to collect any portion of the liability imposed against Evergreen In addition, prior owners of the Mill also became insolvent when faced with bringing the facility into compliance.”

“The extensive history of violations and enforcement at the Mill underscore the fact that compliance at this facility is not going to be achieved through enforcement alone. It is not clear from the Order that Freshwater has provided the Regional Water Board with adequate assurances that it will be able to finance the costs of the necessary improvements and still have a viable business. In addition, we are concerned that the pulp market is volatile and there is no guarantee that a compliance plan that is feasible with today’s pulp prices will still be possible in a year or two.”

Our new water agreement (option) pays the Board more money than it has ever received from any of the prior owners. I believe the price is $1.3 million per year. You can verify that with the Board. We raised the price to eliminate the variability of the prior agreement.

Politics is a big part of the enjoyment I get out of life, along with music and the company of beautiful women.

Politics is easy, music takes a bit more work, and relationships are difficult for anyone.

But I am enjoying life as I type.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 2:09 pm

Send the mill out of reach of our EPA. Hers what to expect very soon .In our air in our ocean water and from the rains

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 2:23 pm

A new report by urgewald about the social and environmental impacts of the pulp industry

“Over the next five years, the pulp industry is planning to increase production capacity by more than 25 million tonnes. The vast majority of this expansion is planned to take place in Uruguay, Brazil, Indonesia, Australia, China and Russia. The pulp mills are to be fed by vast monocultures of fast-growing industrial tree plantations (or forests in the case of Russia). Even allowing for closures of pulp mills in the North, the proposed increase in capacity is unprecendented. For comparison, over the past decade the industry has increased at about one million tonnes a year.

Twenty years ago, Indonesians were promised that the expanding pulp industry would bring prosperity, that it would provide jobs and that it would save the forests by providing and economic use for wood. The reality is that the industry has brought a few jobs but at the cost of social conflicts, land rights conflicts, pollution and the destruction of vast areas of forests. It also produced the biggest debt default in emerging markets when Asia Pulp and Paper stopped repayments on its US$14 billion debt in March 2001.

The new report, “Banks, Pulp and People”, with case studies from seven countries, documents how industrial tree plantations impact on local communities’ water supplies and cause streams and rivers to dry up. Plantations increase deforestation by replacing forests with monocultures. They increase rural poverty and create few jobs. Pulp mills consume large amounts of energy and spew out pollution into the air and water. The report describes structural problems with the pulp industry: overproduction, overconsumption and a reliance on subsidies.

Building on the work of the Center for International Forestry Research, the report notes that banks conduct minimal due diligence when considering supporting the pulp industry – particularly regarding the source of raw material for proposed pulp mills.

In many countries in the Global South, from Brazil to Thailand, from South Africa to Chile, local communities are protesting the impacts of the pulp industry and the vast areas of industrial tree plantations that provide the raw material for the pulp mills. In Brazil, the world’s largest land rights movement, the Movement of Landless Peasants (Movimento dos Trabalhadores Rurais Sem Terra, MST), has repeatedly targeted pulpwood plantations in its land occupations.

The pulp industry is planning a dramatic expansion of capacity in the South. The result will be increased poverty, loss of livelihoods and environmental destruction. This report is an attempt to hold the financiers of the pulp industry accountable.

Urgewald has also set up a new website: http://www.pulpmillwatch.org, to document the problems caused by the pulp industry’s operations around the world. The website will inform the public, financiers and decision makers about upcoming pulp projects and the problems associated with these projects. We hope it will also be a useful tool for social and environmental activists campaigning against the destruction caused by the pulp industry and its monoculture tree plantations

But I think you are figuratively shooting your argument in its foot when you post up these millwatch postings, because everything he says about the third world is just as true here in Humboldt Bay Colony.

Sixty years ago, Eurekans were promised that the expanding pulp industry would bring prosperity, that it would provide jobs and that it would save the forests by providing and economic use for wood. The reality is that the industry has brought a few jobs but at the cost of social conflicts, land rights conflicts, pollution and the destruction of vast areas of forests. It also produced the biggest debt default in Eureka history when Evergreen Pulp and Paper stopped repayments on its US$ multimillion debt in 2008.

Of course I jest but you must see the irony? And the truth that cuts close to home?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 3:18 pm

Bill

I do support reasonable tariffs on most any competing imports.

And as much as I dislike this NWO idea. More needs to be done to “impose” enviro-standards around the world.

Untill that time. Allowing or industries the chance to compete. While they work at their own costly pollution negation. Would seem a fair stance to take .

And ex-pulper, the links you are putting up are guaranteeing that there will be massive overproduction of pulp in the next few years due to governments and NGOs like the World Bank subsidizing pulp mills all over the planet. At exactly the same time that Mr. Simpson is counting on a high price for pulp.

Ain’t gonna happen and you are not helping your case.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 3:23 pm

Bill
Yes to a degree,,,
My intent is to show argument in support of reasons. This mill should stay close to home and EPA oversight.
I’m not worried about Irony. Truth is the right way to make a point.
peace

“Sixty years ago Eurekans were promised prosperity by the expanding pulp industry.”

Of course this whole article was about Indonesia but wasn’t this sentence true in Eureka as well? Humboldt was talked into building a huge water system with promises of prosperity. But look around. Almost everyone, me, you, right, left, center, we all talk about how shitty the economy is in Eureka and Humboldt. So can’t we all agree that the pulp industry DIDN’T bring prosperity? Just like it didn’t in Indonesia?

And then the next sentence about social conflict, land conflicts, pollution and deforestation. Well really without even bothering about who is right or wrong, we are all of us arguing aren’t we? Me, you, Bolitho, Simpson, et al we are arguing hard. We are having a social conflict, we have seen people sit in trees and we have seen clear cuts. We have seen plenty of pollution. It is all as true here as in Indonesia.

And the debt. Samoa Mill has gone broke what four or five times, each time leaving the workers to the social safety net of unemployment benefits,COBRA, mediCAL, and soup kitchens. Each time leaving vendors and truck drivers unpaid.

Just like in the article except this is Humboldt Bay Colony, California not third world Indonesia.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

oldest fart

July 18, 2010 at 5:03 pm

Bill…I have been reading your BS posts all over the Humboldt Herald the past year…IMHO you seem to want to command and draw attention to yourself reguardless of the topic hotspots each day/week/month…I think you need to get a job to fill the void in your life… and perhaps some outside help…you do seem to be an OK guy….however you need to get a life.

Bolithio

July 18, 2010 at 5:20 pm

Ok bill, lets just all drink the coolaid, because history is going to repeat and all systems will fail.

Sorry, but some of us want to try to do things differently. We see forestry as a viable green resource and a new re-fitted pulp mill is part of this vision. The promises of the 70s seem irrelevant at this point. There were over 200 mills here in the sixties. But that stat is more confusing than relevant due to the changes we have had. Yes we have seen clear cuts and tree sitters. But what are we seeing now? Two proactive companies managing for the future. A new school of stakeholders who will take this industry into the next decades with a different philosophy than the companies of the past. I want to believe this. I want the pulp mill to be a catalyst toward this end. If it fails, well congrats to all the poo-pooers now for making the prediction. Oh, and to all of us who did our best to make a real concrete change in the industry will live the rest of our lives in shame.

Ex-pulper

July 18, 2010 at 5:52 pm

Bolithio,,
Well put,,,, Good things may come,with the past as guide. The future could have some very intresting inter play between eviroment and industry. This mill as seen throughout the world. leads and can improve even further in stewardship.

First of all, several of Mr. Simpsons supporters claimed that I was telling lies, so that had to be refuted.

Then there were the stupid NIMBY accusations, those had to be stepped on too. Usually when the NIMBY is pulled out, it is a professional spin merchant, it is part of the troll toolbox.

Then Mr. Simpson showed up. Mr. Simpson is a genius entrepenuer who has agreed to transparently answer questions. This is his chance to put his genuis on display in front of the community.

It is true that I have 100’s of questions for Mr. Simpson, and I am just waiting for him to answer a couple of the half dozen or so that have remained unanwered at this time. Then I will ask some more.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

tim

July 19, 2010 at 10:34 am

I too noticed that the Green Party has been silent. Are they like others that do not live in Eureka but USE it like a wash cloth? I can tell you that the plume of pollution follows the wind. Arcata you should be concerned when the wind blows North. Humboldt Hill residents have complained for years. Eureka residents are called nimby yet we are overloaded with social services and and homeless. And now the mill. All those outside of Eureka think the mill does not matter because they think it won’t affect them. They are the true NIMBY’S.

Ex-pulper

July 19, 2010 at 10:43 am

8 min,
Watch and enjoy !

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 19, 2010 at 10:52 am

NIMBY is funny in this case because the ocean is ALL OF OUR BACK YARDS!!!

Or, NIMBY has no meaning since very few people live in or on the shorelines within 300 feet of the site (this is a project development site, right; ongoing even for 3 years???)

Yet, land does not flow like water…., so……

back to reading the discussion of “maybe” answering some good questions by HB……

Mitch, on principle, human beings NEVER needed an advocate for themself. In labor, you can’t applaud unions when they were an option only with respect to “forced labor” or “forced societal needs based upon monetary debts”. It is still forced labor, but in different terms. The individual IS STILL considered as an entity which can’t decide for itself (usually not being free causes this trait). So, unions are copycat dictator functions,that’s all, like mobsters. It is true that back in the day, unions ebbed for better and worse, but today, unions are way outta control for those suckers who were looking for future social securities.

Plaintruth – yes, and that is the sucker’s play on the stupid. You tell me WHY IT IS NOT ILLEGAL that a job is either union or not???? The real deal is the fascist arrangement between government and organizations (unions) that gives power, money and control in exchange for more power, money and control. Each union member THINKS that because they get a higher wage and benefits, THAT THEY WILL BE better off in the future. Yet, union members really never grasp the concept THEY CREATE HIGHER COSTS IN SOCIETY, not only upon themselves, but non-union employees. It is this scam that government wants for tax collection purposes. Then, when the union contracts were never legal or actually real in detail, the government uses AMERICAN tax dollars that were generated by non-union members too in order to bailout the union jobless and benefitless when the union dummies lose their lifestyles. So PT, “Do you slightly understand why unions today make people look weak as they are and even worse as individuals?” You wonder why America is bankrupt, gee whiz Opie! Anyhow, as if people living today actually researched their forefathers’ history prior to making such poor personal decisions in life. I bet very few union members today have much in common with union members of yesteryear!

Jeff
It would appear you know little of a unions workings. Only Neo-con talking points.They are a DEMOCRATIC organization.
“Create higher cost” I submit they give a living wage to hard working people.
But my word smithing cant meet your long wind .
So thats all folks

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 19, 2010 at 11:28 am

Plaintruth, Living wages are really offset wages. It is a catch term to cover the fact that society is over-valuated in terms of “costs”! What better way to hide the conspiracy than within unionized functions and tiered structures. Besides, being a hardworking union member blah, blah, blah…as if non-union members are not hard workers too, especially when not having a pillow to rest upon.

Anyhow, there must be a really good reason for Plaintruth to swing haymakers as a moniker rather than an actual real name. I pity the weak souled bloggers too afraid to let be known to the readers “who is exactly who”.

I don’t get it Henchman; you are talking out both sides of your mouth. Blame the unions for unfair labor practices? Trust the billionaire capitalists with our lives? What the hell are you talking about?
The thieves of capitalism have sent the jobs to poorer countries with the help of corrupt government. and you want to blame the unions? Damn them eh? wanting a decent wage for employees. if only they would compete with Chinese prison labor and work for a promise of no execution for one day and a bowl of rice.
Stop parroting propaganda, it’s beneath you.

Freshwater applauds CATS for the pressure they are placing on EPA, and we have no concerns with the impacts should CATS be successful in their lawsuit. We will cooperate with CATS should they call upon us.

I am appreciative of your compliment for referring to me as a genious entrepreneur. In fact, I am just a regular guy with common sense, a solid work ethic and a sense of community. I think I understand how to bring adverse groups together for the betterment of our community. I hope I am able to succeed. Would you like to be part of the solution?

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE""

July 23, 2010 at 3:21 pm

Moviedad,

How so exactly? Your 2-part reference needs something citable that I posted attached to it specifically for me to understand your assertion.

So, a human being has to be in a union to get treated better in the labor market? Seems to me that if you don’t like it , don’t work for them (union jobs or not). Now, I know, I know, the amount of money per hour or salary looks really enticing and all + benefits with a union job; yet, that fictitious raise in wage rates is always offset by costs passed on elsewhere which inevitably will end up harming the same union member, aside from any other consumer (remember, most union contracts are signed, sealed and delivered to the company peers prior to the economic dumping – so convenient for COLA’s and monetary value return rates), who got bamboozeld into thinking they had a long term job with great benefits and pay, yet, what seems to almost always happen -again, society and that union employee gets cheated into higher costs that offset any wage gains, promises (err contracts) broken, government bailouts of company union short comings that get passed on to non-union members of society, etc… yes, one big shell game that favors fascisms and labor manipulations.

BTW, you don’t need unions for labor laws to be followed and enforced, period!

Labor Unions are like pulp mills. They can’t get rid of their past stigma. But both are different today.

The intangible benefits of having a labor relationship are:
1) They are the most powerful lobbying group in Washington.
2) They have the answer to healthcare reform.
3) They have the power to stop the export of jobs.

Environmental advocacy groups and unions can be industries best friend. If a company has 200 workers they can’t afford to be a power in Washington. But if the brotherhood of unions represent 1 million + workers, Washington must listen.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 23, 2010 at 7:38 pm

Bob,

Key word “CAN”!!!!

Now, back to the cba negotiations. I think we’ll file for bankruptcy to void those contracts.

Shucks, because we “CAN”!

JL

the reasonable anonymous

July 23, 2010 at 8:44 pm

Bob, I’m glad to see that you got your permit from the Water Board, and that things seem to be looking good to re-open the mill. I especially appreciate that you see the value of a skilled, unionized work force. I also appreciate that the Samoa mill will be one of the cleanest-running pulp mills on the face of the earth. I thought it was really too bad that we all use pulp products made at far-away pulp mills, many of which have much worse pollution problems, including being a leading source of dioxin (one of the most toxic chemicals made my man), while for the last several years a state-of-the-art pulp mill equipped for a chlorine-free bleaching process (that does NOT create dioxin) was sitting idle right over on the Samoa peninsula. What a waste!

However, I do want to comment that 2 out of your 3 reasons cited for valuing a union relationship seem a bit off base to me:

(1) Unions are NOT the most powerful lobbying group in Washington, Big Business is. Wall Street firms, insurance companies, defense contractors, banks, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and hundreds of industry groups all spend bigtime on both campaign contributions and lobbyists. Unions are a significant player, particularly with a Democratic President and Congress, but they are a long ways from being the most powerful lobby in D.C.

and

(3) If unions had the “power to stop the export of jobs” I suspect they would have used it by now! In fact the influence of unions has declined substantially over the past several decades due, in large part, to the loss of manufacturing jobs to overseas locations where labor is cheap, worker protections and collective bargaining are virtually non-existent, and environmental regulations and enforcement are laughably lax.

Now if you said that unions (along with their allies) have the “potential” to find ways to stop the export of jobs, I would agree with that. But they certainly don’t have the “power,” right now, to stop the export of jobs, otherwise they’d be using that power and the Job Drain problem would already be solved…and it isn’t.

Anyway, congrats again on getting your permit. I hope that we’ll soon have hundreds of local jobs back on line — good-paying, union jobs, with benefits.

When do you plan to start operating? Heraldo’s post implied it was about 3 months away…So you have an actual target date that you’re willing to share?

CATS?

July 23, 2010 at 9:07 pm

I can only assume that this is referring to the federal EPA instead of the California EPA, because almost all of the compounds listed, if not all, were already monitored and controlled at the Samoa mill. If it is the federal limits the suit is about, I expect little to no effect to Freshwater Pulp because the pulp mill was operated under the state limits, which were already more strict then the federal ones. When we former workers say that the Samoa mill is one of the cleanest in America we aren’t blowing smoke. Every time I had a chance to talk to workers of other mills they we surprised to hear the emission limits we operated under and even more shocked to hear that we could meet those limits. The people that want the mill to stay closed have be grasping at straws and using misinformation to scare people into fighting the restarting of the mill. Most of the problems at that mill have been BODs and Particulates, which are overviews of water quality and air quality respectively. They bring up these problems then start talking about some of the more hazardous emissions of the kraft pulping process, which, to my knowledge, never been a problem for the mill to stay under the legal limits and some of which are not even generated at the Samoa mill because of the TCF bleaching process

PlainMe

July 23, 2010 at 9:12 pm

Henchman,,,,,,,,
You are just sorta of a long winded deek aintcha.

the reasonable anonymous

July 23, 2010 at 9:28 pm

By the way, although I don’t think unions make sense in ALL workplaces (particularly very small ones), they do seem to be very helpful and important in many industries, including manufacturing. In my own lifetime, I’ve worked in several settings that had unions, as a union member in several cases, and as a manager in another. I’ve also worked in a number of non-union outfits, some of which were probably not appropriate for unionization, some of which were, but got by fine without one because the employer was already very attentive to the workers’ needs, and then a couple of businesses that could really have benefitted from a workers being more organized and empowered, even though the employer may not have been able to accept that idea.

Here are my Top Four Reasons why it pays to have a unionized workplace:

(1) In a healthy union-employer relationship, unions help workers organize to gain the kinds of compensation, benefits, and workplace rules that are most important to the majority of the workers at that particular workplace. This means happier workers, who feel a bit more secure, more valued and appreciated, and more like they have a “career” (and not just a “job” where they are viewed as interchangeable with any other worker and expendable at any time). Basically this adds up to better morale, more loyalty to the employer, and a sense that they are a stakeholder in the business, all of which leads to people working harder, working smarter, going the extra mile for the team.

(2) In a healthy employer-union relationship, unions help keep employers focused on issues that are important over the long term, such as worker safety and ongoing training — issues that the employer may intellectually understand are important and that they may be committed to, but which nonetheless can get lost in the day-to-day priorities of running the business. It’s no accident (pun intended) that unionized facilities tend to have much better safety records. This also feeds into point #1, because employees who see that their safety is taken seriously are going to be more satisfied with their job and their employer, and more motivated to help make the business a success.

(3) In a healthy employer-union relationship, unions provide a proven structure for dealing with worker grievances, whether they are individual problems with a particular supervisor, or problems the workforce as a whole has with the employer, or whatever. Of course problems are, by definition, problematic, but it is far better to have a grievance procedure, and to have an opportunity for a shop steward or other union rep to try to work things out with management when there are difficult issues, than it is to have a resentful, disempowered workforce that can only express their dissatisfaction by cutting corners on quality or taking sick days when they aren’t sick, taking their anger out on middle-management and line-level supervisors, or whatever other passive-aggressive measures they can come up with. And again, the fact that the employee knows that they are respected enough that the employer has agreed to hear and try to deal with their grievances when they arise adds more to the dynamic outlined in #1 — good employer offering good jobs => happy hard-working employees => good workers => better product => successful business.

(4) In a well-run union, union membership can create a real sense of cameraderie and belonging, and a sense that one’s employment is a meaningful part of life, not just an unwanted chore. (Personal note: My grandfather belonged to the Telephone Co. union for many years, and fellow union members remained some of his best buddies to the day he died He loved to attend “union retiree” events, keep up with what was going on in the union and the telephone company long after he retired, and he loved the fact that union members and retirees would rally to help a member or their family when they needed help, such as a serious illness or a house that burned down.) Again, this feeds back into point #1.

Anyway, Bob, good luck and keep us all posted!

49er

July 24, 2010 at 5:52 am

I would like to question why a few people are trying so hard to interrupt the starting of the Pulp Mill. With the state of the economy in Humboldt and California we need jobs. Bob Simpson has been working very hard to provide those jobs. The Pulp Mill means many more jobs to the county than just the 250 or so that will work at the mill. The Harbor Destruct will be affected, the truckers that drive the trucks to the mill, and the local suppliers that sell to the mill. This mill is the life’s blood of our town and thousands of jobs for the county are a good thing.

the AFL-CIO is currently #5 on the top 10 Washington Lobbyists. I generally don’t pay attention to these statistics until an election year. During our last Presidential year, labor had 4 unions represented at the top of the lobbyist leader board. If my memory is correct, AT&T was #1 and Goldman-Sachs was #2.

Two weeks ago President Obama appointed the President of the Plumbers and Steamfitters Union to his Export Committee. Perhaps we will see some export reform.

Someone previously stated the Samoa mill was amongst the cleanest pulp mills in North America. I agree with you. Our competitors are stunned when comparing their water and air emmissions to ours. Our spill prevention plan is second to none.

The most important issue we have at hand is to unite our community. Ecology and economy can be synonomous. And so can labor and management. What we need is a vision for Humboldt County. I propose that vision be:

Humboldt County is a marine industrial eco-economy. We need to construct a public multi-purpose dock capable of handling many products.

I encourage all of you improve this vision. Who knows where this might lead.

49er

July 24, 2010 at 6:26 am

Bob
I think that your idea of a public dock is a good one. Sometime in the past I heard of proposal to transship containers to the port of Oakland via rail. We all know the railroad is a bust, could we transship via barge? This, I am sure would make many more jobs.

We have had the beetle epidemic, a major down turn in the world demand for soft wood lumber and through it all, the saving grace has been the pulp industry, which has been able to chug along, in many cases propping up the saw mills associated with them.

That all could come to an end and very quickly if the US government continues to subsidize the US pulp industry through a loop hole that allows companies to use a tax credit if fossil fuel is mixed with alternate fuel to reduce the use of fossil fuel.

Pulp mills create black liquor and burn that liquor to recover chemicals and create heat, so it is an alternate fuel. By adding diesel fuel to the black liquor, US companies could see a subsidy of up to $6 Billion a year in a tax credit.

In a recent interview Canfor officials in Prince George pointed out the fact that one pulp company received $70 million in subsidies in the 4th quarter. So you don’t really need to make pulp in order to make money.

Now what is the effect on the pulp industry not only in Canada but worldwide? These U.S. companies will be able to produce pulp at about 75 to 80 cents on the dollar to what it costs a Canadian company to produce. Pulp mills in the USA that have been mothballed for several years are looking at getting back into production. The American taxpayer is providing the bottom line for these companies which are more than happy to take advantage of the offer.

International Pulp and Paper who operate on both sides of the border will not be coming to the table to try and have this subsidy dismissed. Why should they? After all, they will be benefitting from the subsidy south of the border.

Where does that leave a company such as Canfor in Prince George? There will be few options, but if the US government insists on keeping the subsidy then there remains only one other avenue to compete, cut costs.

Now how do you cut costs? The costs of goods and oh yes, the matter of labour costs immediately comes to mind. We could see a move to reduce those labour costs if the US government continues with the subsidy and there will have to be some very serious soul searching by all connected to the industry if it is to survive in Canada.

Prince George could face yet another major blow to its forest based economy and in order for even one pulp mill to survive, faced with the subsidies of US producers, drastic measures would be needed.

The Old Pulp mill in Samoa has more dreamers imagining the impossible…

This new “eco-conscious” company called Freshwater Tissue Company (FTC) claim they are going to annually consume 128 million board feet of timber per year (36,700 log trucks x 3,500 bd ft. per log truck) for the next 40 years. And of course such a massive increase in logging is going to help the forest get healthier right?

But their numbers don’t add up? The amont of overcutting in Humboldt’s watersheds in recent decades has become so severe that the annual production of this amount of additional wood is impossible!

Anonymous

July 24, 2010 at 9:23 am

Bob, you may want to go over to the NCJ blog and explain to Rose your position on the CATs/EPA lawsuit.

All of you folks who are opposed to the container port/ rail fantasy need to understand that the pulp mill is connected to it, and when you support the pulp mill restart you are strengthening the rail port fantasy. The proof is in Arkley’s letter above. I know you the pulp mill workers need jobs. Let’s build up the industrial park in Eureka.

Let’s do something for displaced workers like the mill workers, and I am not talking about “retraining” them to be baristas or motel maids. They need real jobs. The Headwaters fund should be used to create blue collar jobs at living wages, not to produce studies. It has been seriously misused.

Mr. Simpson if you really want to do something for the pulp mill workers why don’t you make good on the promises that Evergreen, Stockton Pacific and Louisiana Pacific has made to them over the years?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bolithio

July 24, 2010 at 9:38 am

And of course such a massive increase in logging is going to help the forest get healthier right?

But their numbers don’t add up? The amount of overcutting in Humboldt’s watersheds in recent decades has become so severe that the annual production of this amount of additional wood is impossible!

LOL First off, that article is full of shit. 100 million board feet is nothing. 128 million feet is not a massive increase in logging, barly even a bump. Over cutting in recent decades? Perhaps the most laughable.

Everyone should not read that article. It is baseless, prepared with a complete lack of understanding of logging, growth and volume. Their poo-poo of forest sustainability is totally off the mark.

These paranoid articles about forestry and logging are always written by people who do not have foundations in forest ecology or enviornmental. They spread the ignorance that groups such as EPIC feed on. Their epic battles ultimately lead to inefficiency here, and third world extraction/exploitation there.

I know you are a smart guy, so you must know Freshwater has no obligation or means to repay for alleged promises made to pulp mill workers.

Bill, why don’t you pay for your ancestors slavery misdeads, or for what your ancestors did to Native Americans. Neither of us can correct past errors, but we can make sure never to repeat the same mistakes twice.

Lastly Bill, sensationalism or pulp fiction doesn’t work. The Samoa mill consumes sawmill byproducts and diseased stricken tanoak timber. Now let me ask you a direct question and I expect a direct answer. Would you prefer to see tanoak harvested and converted to pulp and paper products, or would you prefer to see tanoak trees killed with herbicides and left standing for an eventual forest fires or left alive to continue the spread of sudden oak death syndrome?

Bolithio

July 24, 2010 at 9:46 am

Ya so, starting the mill running isnt a good idea for mill workers? I dont get you all Bill. I dont think the mill workers do either.

Get over it. The mill is going to open. We are going to try to make it work. I can think of thousands and thousands of acres that will immediately become available for really good rehab projects. If Bob’s recipe calls for tan oak, well, I can personally guarantee him a constant supply – assuming he can pay a reasonable price!!! =)

You want manufacturing? You want light industrial here in humboldt? Well f’ing do it then, dont rain on our parade. How can you stand there are tell us to abandon our industry and create some light industrial manufacturing fantasy out of thin air? In case you haven’t noticed, the pulp mill has a long history here with almost 200 million dollars invested so far to make it one the cleanest pulp mills in the world. Not good enough for you? You cant see what a waste it would be to abandon it?

I think it would be a good idea to tear it down and detoxify the site. Although it has reputedly been chlorine and dioxin free since the 90’s it was not chlorine and dioxin free for the 30 years before that.

It is all the taxpayers and the workers who pay the bill everytime this boom and bust pollute and bankrupt cycle turns.

There is no difference between here and Indonesia, the pulp mill never did bring prosperity just a boom and bust cycle of despair.

According to Mr. Simpson the mill is worth $20 million. Your union had a lien on it to pay for your pensions and your medical bills. What happened to the liens? OOPS a couple of smooth talkers pull the tissue over your eyes and now you are left once again with promises.

Why is the pulp industry so cyclical? It is because governments all over the globe subsidize heavily the pulp industry, to the point where overproduction occurs and prices always collapse. It is capitalism on government financed steriods. It is all there in the sources that Mr. Simpson himself uses.

You union workers need to direct some of your anger at the people who have sold you down the river.

Is Freshwater going to hire back all 215 workers who were fired? My bet is not.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bolithio

July 24, 2010 at 10:05 am

Bob, with respect, most the tan oak is not disease ridden. While sudden oak death is creeping it way here, and has been found in only a few places in Humboldt. The tan oak issue is more about unnatural succession in forests. When the old timers hammered the hills in the 50-60s, they did absolutely nothing to reforest. As result, tan oak, which was living in status underneath most old growth stands, immediately released and has dominated the forests.

Now we have thousands upon thousands of acres that are dominated by that tree. The reason this is bad, is that tan oak by its nature puts up many many stems on the acre. Even more than redwood. The tree is not as resilient however, and is prone to wind throw and snow break. Over time, these unnatural tan oak stands develop extremely high fire risk as they pile up mortality while throwing up more stems. Their prolific nature makes it difficult if not impossible for other tree species to re-establish them selves.

There have also been various wildlife implications due to the hardwood-conifer switch. Its a long story, but most agree that restoring as much of this ground as possible will lead to better conditions across the board.

Assuming the price is right, your mill will give us a huge opportunity to clean-up these stands. Thanks in advance!!!!!!!

“But the lake has not always been treated with the same reverence by the authorities. With its pristine waters, which are home to unique flora and fauna, Lake Baikal is perfect for pulp and paper production, a lucrative but highly polluting process. In 1966 the now-notorious Baikalsk Pulp and Paper Mill began to function on the shores of Baikal.

An introduction to Soviet Man’s disastrous experience with making tweaks to nature here and there need go no further than the example of the Aral Sea in Uzbekistan, which has shrunk by 70 percent in the last five decades, ever since scientists reversed the direction of its feeder rivers. Environmentalists say that effluence from the Baikalsk Pulp and Paper Mill has already created a dead zone of 30 square kilometers in Baikal’s south.

By the early 1980s the Baikalsk mill had become a rallying point for protesters. The environmental demonstrations led by Russian writer and activist Valentin Rasputin snowballed into a Russia-wide movement, which would become one of the enduring symbols of Mikhail Gorbachev’s glasnost period. Protestors eventually won a concession that the mill’s operations would be terminated by 1993, but the government’s promise was lost in the chaos of the 1990s. In 1999 a law was finally passed prohibiting the production of paper, cellulose, and cardboard, which in particular discharge effluent into the lake.

After the new law was passed the mill switched to a cleaner, “closed” cycle in late 2008, but the factory could not maintain profit margins. It spluttered to a halt and ceased to operate altogether in March last year. Environmentalists celebrated a victory, although it was probably Russia’s economic crisis that dealt the blow to the mill, majority owned by then-beleaguered oligarch Oleg Deripaska’s Basic Element Holding.

But in January 2010 Prime Minister Vladimir Putin removed paper, cellulose and cardboard from the list of materials banned for production—effectively allowing the mill to reopen. Outraged environmentalists immediately alleged that Deripaska had exploited his close relationship with the premier to lobby for amendments to the law.

Both Putin and Deripaska are now loathed by a section of the local Irkutsk population. Despite the soft touch for animals that Putin has become known for (through a raft of stage-managed encounters with animals “captured” by Kremlin hacks), Russia’s prime minister is currently ranked as “Siberia’s biggest enemy,” a poll by BABR.ru, a local news Web site, found. Deripaska ranks second with 15.1 percent of the vote, against Putin’s 41.4 percent, with 31,000 votes cast.

At the time Putin claimed he was creating jobs in Baikalsk, a town of 16,000 that suffered from the closure of the mill where 2,000 worked. Deripaska, for his part, protested that he would install environmentally friendly technology over the next three years, and then hand over his 51-percent stake in the plant to the local authorities. Environmentalists rubbished Deripaska’s suggestion that he would make any upgrades, asserting that it would clearly be prohibitively expensive for owners who had already once shut the asset down as soon as it couldn’t turn a profit.”

I agree 10:33, but what does that have to do with the pulp mill opening? The mill isn’t preventing those types of things. Nothing against the idea, I just dont understand why that is a talking point against the mill.

We all know, on the right center and left that we are in an era of limited government resources.

It is obvious that the pulp mill cannot run without government subsidies. To believe so requires one to ignore all the evidence.

The question then is with limited subsidies available from government to build the local economy, where should subsidies be deployed?

I think the limited government economic resources should be deployed within the city limits of Eureka, building up the economy of Eureka, creating living wage clean manufacturing jobs in Eureka and the expanding tax base of Eureka, not on a peninsula across the bay. Eureka will get the pollution, Samoa gets the economic benefit.

My apologies to Richard Marks for lifting this whole off his blog but it is pertinent and not too long. It illustrates the corrupt recent history of the pulp industry and should be of interest to workers and the general public.

Saturday, January 27, 2007
Weyerhaeuser tells Evergreen no thanks!
Well that was a surprise. Weyerhaeuser decided to take an offer from another investor to buy their Pulp Mill in Cosmopolis, Washington. The Eureka Reporter – Article Weyerhaeuser instead accepted an offer from another group who are naming the place Cocidus High Purity Cellulose. The Daily World The same people bought a sulfide pulp mill in Port Alice in British Columbia after Lapointe Partners went bankrupt after buying the plant for $1 and sucking profits off into thin air. Oh yes, the same Lapointe people who bought Shasta Paper for $1 and went bankrupt, then Samoa Pacific/Bankrupt and Stockton Pacific/Bankrupt so on & so on.

Almost three hundred workers are now completely confused about their old workplace. The Daily World The Public Utilities Department for Grays Harbor was “shocked” by the news. The Daily World It will be interesting to see what happens.

Evergreen CEO David Tsang held special meetings last week with workers at Samoa and was pretty confident the deal was close at hand. The new mill was to also be named Evergreen, and he was going to personally lead the transition, much as he had successfully done here at Samoa. Guess that is not in the works.

The former union workers or at least the leaders at Cosmopolis have publicly stated that they are worried about the new owners.The Daily World They should be. History shows these people can get nasty in negotiations. They pretty much threatened to back out of the deal to buy the Port Alice Mill if the workers did not accept an sub par offer. The Marxist-Leninist Daily

It must really be unnerving for the long term workers who are now displaced at Cosmopolis. You put years of your life in a place, and it becomes a part of you. I always joke with people at work that I have to stay at Evergreen because after nearly 30 years, I can not do a “real” job. When I put myself in the shoes of the people at the old “Cosi” plant, I wonder if maybe I am hitting closer to the truth than I jest.

Yes, direct questions and answers is a good thing. Now, if it is equivalent by all sides, that would be FAIR. Now, seems to me, HB still has questions he has asked get answered by BS, am I still accurate or not?

Anyhow, being that small businesses make up most businesses, I have yet to hear of a union that represents 100% ALL small businesses or a collection of unions for ALL small businesses and their employees’ needs. Afterall, current structured unions are economically “locking-out” non-unions by way of financial/monetary statuses using wages and benefits that are not 100% SUBSIDIZED BY THE BUSINESSES ONLY. Kinda like pre-vailing wage earners (public employees), private business owners using unlimited, yet limited public tax dollars to yield much higher profit returns than that of within the private sector relationship (this is why the customer or contractor has to wait for the frauds to finish government sponsored work – the frauds could never offer the profit “mark-ups” that bond monies do, etc.) So, what happens is a part of the overall workforce is sponsored over other parts on behalf of public/private profit/benefit kickbacks which are directly tied to maliciously and intentionally raising falsely the societal valuations (like real-estate values, homes, cogs, etc.) AND costs of doing general small business.

WHY?

Power and control for tax collection purposes AND the cyclical nature of slamming economies so those at the top of the pyramid scheme benefit more while more people at the bottom keep coming to America thinking they are going to live the dream or are born into families with no politcal awarenesses or common senses, especially with regard to money!

Sardine lovers – get used to tight quarters and less opportunities. You will “be forced” into a livlihood of work; whereas, focus should be on less work and more life. Too many people work too much. If greed was not what it was, the amount of work needed to subsidize that greed would not be necessary (meaning anti-greed should not pay for greed).

I could give a flyin crud about how much money any person wants to earn, but I have a huge problem when that greed raises the societal costs for everyone (including those who don’t need much money to live life, yet!) who despises greed!

What does it mean when someone comments that “80% of the bearings have already been sold off?”

Anyone?

Does it mean that equipment essential to the running of mill is no longer there?

“Simpson said there has been some interest on the part of potential buyers in converting the mill’s massive boiler into a wood-burning power plant that could produce 46 megawatts, although current power lines only have 30 mw of capacity open. Barring that, it appears the mill’s parts will be sold off; about 80 percent of its bearing stock has already been sold, Simpson said. Currently, it’s costing Freshwater Pulp about $100,000 a month just for basic maintenance of the plant.

If the mill is torn down, groundwater and possibly soil contamination at the site will have to be cleaned up.”

“Freshwater has been unable to identify a substantial enough source of chips to run the mill. Freshwater has been looking to sell the mill in recent weeks, but so far, said one of its owners Bob Simpson, no party has expressed interest in running the mill.

At the same time, Simpson said that the loss of the mill would be terrible for the local community and could devalue area timber by reducing the price sawmills are paid for their waste chips, the raw material pulp is made from.

“The mill should not be torn down,” Simpson said. “It’s short-sighted. You’ll never permit another one in the U.S.”

But Simpson said that his analysis shows that there aren’t enough chips available locally to run the mill for more than seven months a year. Just last weekend, a fire at Trinity River Lumber Co. in Weaverville threatened another 8 to 9 percent of the Samoa mill’s annual requirement, he said.

Freshwater Pulp bought the mill from the defunct Evergreen Pulp in February. Evergreen Pulp, which had split from its original Hong Kong owners Lee and Man Paper Manufacturing the year before, had closed the mill in October, leaving some 215 people out of work.

The mill’s shutdown was actually among the reasons prices for unbleached kraft pulp began to climb in the principal Asian market, said Bryan Smith, an editor for Pulp and Paper Weekly. Since the shutdown, other manufacturers have filled the gap, however, and prices are expected to start coming down, Smith said.

Smith said the pulp market is one of the most volatile on the planet, and that any entity looking to start up the Samoa mill could easily find itself beginning to produce as a downturn sets in.

“The mill was built by Georgia-Pacific in the 1960s, encouraged by plans to build a regional water system that included abundant flow to the Samoa Peninsula. Another pulp mill built on the peninsula shut down in the 1990s as part of legal settlement over pollution. The G-P mill, by then under Louisiana-Pacific, opted to switch from a chlorine-based process to a chlorine-free operation.

Simpson was a general manager of Louisiana-Pacific Corp. in the 1990s.

Louisiana-Pacific sold the mill to a group of investors, and the mill then went through several owners — and several major crises. Each time, said Nathan Zink, president of the Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers Local 49, little regard has been given to the mill’s longtime employees. Still, Zink said, some laid off workers even now hold out hope that the mill might restart.

“We were promised the world and that’s not really how it worked out,” Zink said.

He said he’s been encouraging employees — many of whom are in their 50s and were making good wages at the mill — to move on to something else.”

There are two ways to cause environmental behavioral change. One method is to use the existing laws to bring companies into compliance. The second is to lead by example. I prefer the latter.

Change by example is a difficult task because you start out in a position of public mistrust. But if you succeed in building trust you can permanently change public opinion, which in turn can lead to a better life for our community. My goal is to earn your trust by proving ecology and economy can co-exist.

You could earn our trust by bringing the pulp mill into compliance with air and water laws before you start the pollute and run cycle again.

You take credit for transforming the mill into a chlorine free process but in actuality it was a lawsuit by Surfrider that force Lousiana Pacific to change the process. Or am I wrong about that?

Is it not true that the Samoa mill is the only pulp mill in the US that does NOT have a secondary wastewater treatment plant? You know the treatment plants you call as useful as an outhouse?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bob Simpson

July 25, 2010 at 11:27 am

Bill,

Once again, you are wrong. The fact is we had choices. I could have installed secondary treatment and continued using Chlorine, I could have closed the Samoa mill just like Simpson closed the Fairhaven mill, or I could eliminate chlorine and pioneer pollution prevention equipment. I chose the latter and for many reasons it was the right decision.

The reason EPA and the State Water Board are allowing us to operate is they realize BOD is not a pollution issue but rather a regulator issue. They also know it is better to put people back to work vs. completely eliminating jobs and killing our local economy. Fortunately Bill, EPA uses a holistic approach to solving problems. Perhaps you should to.

I would like to start a feedlot in Eureka, put it down near the 255 bridge. It won’t cost nearly as much to start up as your mill (it will only require some fencing, some rough shedding and some hogs) but it will employ 50 or so American Association of Slaughterhouse Employees at union wages (well at least 25% of them at union wages).

Of course there will be small issues of odor and offgassing and water table pollution (hog feces) but given the current economy I am sure that waivers will be forthcoming from the EPA and the water board. I am confident also that if the Ingomar Club and the rest of the neighbors of my little hog feedlot take a holistic approach then they will enthusiastically support it.

After all who wants to eat pork produced in China? Chinese feedlots are so polluting compared to American ones.

We still don’t know if 80 percent of the bearing stock has been sold off…

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bob Simpson

July 25, 2010 at 3:14 pm

Bill,

Pulp fiction again Bill. You are losing credibility by the minute. Less than 1% of the bearings were sold, and only bearings that were showing corrosion. I think you need to fish off another dock Bill. This spot is clearly fished out.

Did you perchance read my post of 12:48 yesterday where you were quoted as saying that 80 percent of the bearings had been sold? I gave a source for the quote. Allbusiness.com. Was the quote accurate or a fabrication?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 25, 2010 at 3:24 pm

Did the surfrider lawsuit force the choices?

In theory, the EPA should have “some” document that explains why the process was truncated and changed when compared to other PAST applicants who have entertained the process? Therefore, past applicants should have a legal claim too for not being protected under the equal protection laws. Funny how subsidies can be scoffed at by the very same people and entities that accept subsidies – really kinda ironic hypocrisy if you will.

Is the bearing company Borg Warner bearings; or, another industrial publicly traded company.

Bending the rules (subsidy kickback) means that the rules were previously bent or over-burdensome, suggesting that current or anticipated (projected) cash flow and profit, tax collections, other fees, etc.. could never be workable for the business to survive unless publicly subsidized for any amount, terms or period of time.

A private company subsidized by taxpayers is one form of fascism. A private company subsidized by public officials and regulators through changing a “standardized” process or allowing changes or amendments to what previously has been “offered” in any “standardized” process is fascist, especially when considering the equal protection laws of this country.

Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 25, 2010 at 3:32 pm

BS, did not you just “over and out” HB @ 1:42 pm?

Then, you decide to go against your own words @ 3:18 pm.

BS, if there is nothing to prove, then why are you pandering along like a dog in heat? Actions speak louder than words; so, if you can save your breath, then by all means try because you should not lose sanity over something you will guarantee to the community.

As you know, I believe that a private business should pay 100% of its own liabilities while not getting “special kickbacks” to do it. This is where my problem with the permit begins regardless of the environmental impacts. It is “all about the process”.

“HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE” says:
July 25, 2010 at 3:24 pm
“A private company subsidized by taxpayers is one form of fascism. A private company subsidized by public officials and regulators through changing a “standardized” process or allowing changes or amendments to what previously has been “offered” in any “standardized” process is fascist, especially when considering the equal protection laws of this country.”

So is subsidizing a federally illegal road project through Richardson Grove for a few greedy businesses with our taxes…

Ironic hypocrisy? Yes, we both finally agree…

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 25, 2010 at 4:06 pm

JM,

just as I was checking out updates prior to leaving…..

Is the road a “private road”? Nope!

Now, are the courts going to play a part in the final decision, yes!

Let us wait and see because we may also see an appeal or two…..

JL

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 25, 2010 at 4:09 pm

Forgot to mention,

often, I notice other people jump the gun in conversations OFTEN without “THINKING” first.

Try and refrain JM from quick quips because you will read as being more intelligient!

I don’t know your source, but the only bearings sold were as I stated in my blog comment. Now, why are you so concerned with bearings?

My answers are straight forwards and my statements are easily supported by facts. Now, if I invite you in to show you the bearing inventory, and I show you the bearing sale we made, I’ll bet you still won’t believe a word I say. For the record, the bearings were sold to Royal Bearing in Portland, Oregon.

PlainMe

July 25, 2010 at 5:23 pm

Mr Simpson,,,
That Bill And Jeff Are known TROLLS, They will just keep coming with their BS, to just keep you coming back for more .They call it fun.

A-Nony-Mouse

July 25, 2010 at 6:25 pm

Thanks for responding, Bill, even to Henchman and High Humboltage. Even I, the old grey haired progressive, support your efforts to restart the mill, given that you’ll do it VERY CAREFULLY. I HATED the old mills. When I would take my boat down the bay, it was almost impossible to breathe, with eyes watering to beat the band. If you do as you say, it will be a great gain for Humboldt County.

I am a resident of Eureka who is opposed to the restart of the pulp mill, I am posting here using my own name.

Are you going to resort to name calling and thuggery to win your arguments?

Will you tell your supporter PlainMe to stop name calling?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

oldest fart

July 25, 2010 at 7:17 pm

Mr. Highboldtage
PlainMe and B. Simpson are two diffrent people expressing their views/opinions…your request to silence or control a supporter is way over the line.
Again, get a life, peace out, or better still…get lost.

PlainMe

July 25, 2010 at 7:22 pm

Troll is not name calling. Its a personality trait.
And I have followed you and henchman long enough to see your questioning games. Here and many other blogs are filled with your two faced arguments for arguments sake. And thats a fact alot will agree too I”M willing to bet . If I’m wrong then I’ll bow out .

But just a few posts back you condradict that and now you say that only 1 per cent have been sold.

Can anyone explain the contradiction? Mr. Simpson? PlainMe?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

49er

July 25, 2010 at 7:46 pm

Bill,

I have read your posts on this blog and cannot help thinking your problems lay with the government.
If not, then we should all look at our government. We pay all of these different agenizes to protect us and follow the laws of the land.
We should change the leadership of this State and Country, rid all of the corruption, and live in peace

PlainMe

July 25, 2010 at 8:02 pm

High bold ;
Its called a typo Or even an honest misqoute.He’s Mr Simpson has addressed it. And still you go on about it. But I guess you’d rather make a point of bearings and what percent. like it matters.Then the truth of this mill.
And again I say to all .You and Henchy are Trolls

My advice to you is to seek the truth and quit reading about it. I will give the reporter, who I don’t know, the benefit of the doubt and assume they made an error. It wasn’t worth correcting because it wasn’t damaging. But it was incorrect.

Call me anytime and I will personally show you the bearing inventory and the invoice to Royal. After you see how foolish you have been to challenge me on an issue which is truly meaningless and beneath you to even ask about, will you get on this blog and apologize to me for the pulp fiction you have spread and for demeaning both of us for having this discussion? You must have something better to do than waste your time and mine.

You are not protecting the earth. You are seeking your moment of fame by blogging to demonstrate your perseverance and intelligence. But when you take on meaningless arguments you discredit yourself. Advocates such as EPIC, CAT’s, Baykeepers, FOER, Sierra-Club and GreenPeace, are protecting the earth. Get involved and do something fruitful.

I admit I know very little of the mills operations day to day. I admitted that in my original question re the bearings. Go read it.

Do you plan on returning to work there? Were you a prior mill employee?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

oldest fart

July 25, 2010 at 9:03 pm

Bill
Do yourself a favor…spend more time with those beautiful women you mentioned….you will find alot of “peaceful days” in their presence. LOL

PlainMe

July 25, 2010 at 9:15 pm

Highbold ‘
Your question on the bearings was addressed by Mr Simpson I’ve followed this thread from the start.
But you’ll ask again wont you.
And in answer to your questions to me . YES,and YES.
So now does that start your trolling on me ?

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 25, 2010 at 9:46 pm

Plain Me,

speak for yourself please. Personally, I am not into games either, unless actual sporting events.

In fact, I am hopeful it is a success; yet, to pollute for a time period while “making attempts” to become compliant warrants concern – this is fair and Mr. Simpson I am sure understands this.

As well, it is wrong to subvert a “standardized process” for purposes of prosperity when previous “Standardized process participants” would never be allowed to recieve the same “subversive benefit” for a use permit.

What would be nice – if the pulp mill was all non-union jobs where the hourly wage rates and salary wage rates would still match what a union employee would presumedly get. Then, pop in some company stock for the employees and shit-can the fraudulant national healthcare plan by having the employee willingly sign a “healthcare” waiver and release form because workers compensation is fair enough. Go scabs!

Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District

the reasonable anonymous

July 25, 2010 at 9:55 pm

Isn’t the fact that both the employer and the employees would prefer a union shop a little detail that might be worth considering? Or should the Hunchman’s prejudices outweigh the opinions of those actually running the plant and those working at it?

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 25, 2010 at 10:23 pm

I am not prejudice tra; rather, a very fair person who understands sponsored labor over other labor.

If all labor was unionized labor (small businesses too), then why need unions? You don’t silly. All unions are is a tool for govt. too raise societal costs across the board while falsely rewarding those who help them do it.

Conversely, those who are not part of the scheme, must afford the higher societal costs with less money because of the way market economics has manipulated labor and consumers in this country for the alterior purpose to raise valuations that yield higher tax rate returns AND private profits.

Sadly, non-union labor is subsidizing union un-employments, union healthcare plans failed, etc… The U.S. government sold out the honest laborer years ago for one who can’t just decide whether the terms and conditions of any employment opportunity are good enough or not without someone else holding their hand telling them what to do like mommy and daddy only could!

JL

the reasonable anonymous

July 26, 2010 at 12:17 am

Yeah, obviously no prejudices or misunderstandings there!

(I rest my case.)

PlainMe

July 26, 2010 at 9:16 am

Jeff,
Your stand on unions is your right . Thats cool.
As far as the permit go’s.Nothing different was done for Freshwater then would be done for anyother permit.
Thats fact..
Go to the water board site and look at how many CDO’S accompany other permits. Check out willits water treatment plant. Its pretty standard practices employed here.

I understand your view point. But I don’t think you have all of the facts to form an educated view. Unfortunately, the spread of pulp fiction has caused the public to reach the wrong conclusion.

Other than BOD, the Samoa mill’s effluent surpasses all water pollution standards as setforth by EPA and California’s Ocean Plan. Unfortunately, BOD standards have become more restrictive and the Samoa mill’s technology to reduce BOD has not kept pace with EPA’s technology based regulation.

When methanol goes uncaptured and gets released to a “receiving water”, in some cases, it depletes oxygen needed to sustain fish life. That is not the case at the Samoa mill. EPA’s regualtory system pertaining to BOD does not take into consideration a receiving water. The Samoa mill receiving water is the Pacific Ocean. In other words, EPA regulates BOD in all pulp mills exactly the same regardless of where the receiving water (river, lakes and oceans) effluent is discharged. EPA understands the science behind their policy is lacking. But for political reasons they have not changed their one size fits all policy. Several studies, which I have posted on our website, were completed to confirm oxygen depletion was not an issue at the end of the Samoa mill outfall line. Accordingly, EPA and the State Water Board reached the correct conclusion that it would be better to allow the Samoa mill to operate and pay minimum fines for exceeding the mill’s BOD limit while Freshwater constructs a water treatment plant. Had EPA not agreed, the Samoa mill would have permanently closed because it would have been impossible to finance the project and due to corrosive nature of our location, it would have been more difficult and expensive to restart it.

The unfortunate aspect of politics is we lose sight of the science and instead we begin to apply rules based on “social science.” When this occurs, the owners are fined and labeled a polluter. Fortunately, the wisdom of the Water Board and EPA prevailed, and Humboldt County will be the beneficiary of their decision.

I care about public trust and support. If not, I wouldn’t respond to blogs. I also recognize that actions speak louder than words.

As I pointed out earlier in this very thread, the HSU study (1994) with its happy talk about fish species that you cite was done before the samoa mill outfall was even in service, there has been 15 years of outfall since then.

Also the CH2M HILL study consisted of ONE DAY in 2007 and it was performed at a distance of almost 2 football fields from the outfall diffuser. Even though this error was known at the time the study was not redone, not even one time!

Perhaps we have a language barrier. Let me be perfectly clear. Freshwater has not requested nor received any waiver from any governmental body for the restart of the Samao mill. We received an NPDES permit and CDO. Both of which are standard in a situation like ours.

Bill, there is no reason for me to continue answering “your” questions. Regardless of the response I provide you, your objective is to keep the debate going, or is it a conspiracy theory, so that you can become the blogging legend you have created in your own mind. You will have to achieve your goal at someone elses expense. Your motives give me cause to terminate my involvement in this particular blog.

PlainMe

July 26, 2010 at 10:40 am

LOL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
GD Trolls,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sorry but its The truth,,,,,,,,,,

Bolithio

July 26, 2010 at 11:16 am

Advocates such as EPIC…are protecting the earth

LOL!! Again, with all due respect Bob (which I do), EPIC is not protecting the earth.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

July 26, 2010 at 11:17 am

Bob,

facts regarding the “standardized” process or your business model? No pulp fiction there bud!

In a business sense, there exists differences within any process. The problem I have is subsidies that are not 100% private sector. In business, if all businesses were allowed the amenities your business was allowed, then I would not be a critic over the process or processes.

As I also implied above – why waste your sanity if you are going to prove your trust. I hope it works out where taxpayers foot $0 in subsidies, but we both know that is not the case in portion.

Anyhow, this is what I hope you are grasping. Your “social service” statement makes me think you do grasp, so no need to mince other “stuff” to diminish a viewpoint not based on your pulp fiction “one liner”.

tra – rests before adjudicating –> typical loaferism.

Plain Me @ 9:16 am – “would be done or has been done”? Both? Seems to me in the future if the proper process was afforded, would be done would not apply (that which fixes through deviation). It is all about a process that does not shift from applicant to applicant while using taxpayers’ monies to partially subsidize the business model until such improvements/projects are completed after the start-up of that particular business. Keep it 100% private without public tax monies subsidizing the “financial shortfalls and impacts – direct or indirect”. When a process is shifted, it opens the door for legal claims and equal protection concerns when issues like prosperity have been diminished due to poor institutional structurisms and standardizations that took away opportunities for others when they did not get the most recent kickback/exemptions. I understand how it cuts both ways too, but it should not include public tax dollars/kickbacks in a private venture.

The odd time period will be that which separates process final decisons and re-writing the rules of that process as to what is determinable as fact to allow the process to be more perfected based on realities. This too cuts both ways when poplulation loads are configured within the scope of the impacts.

I do have a burning question though for whomever has the facts – How is the MLPA going to affect mill waste discharges? Or, did the process answer that already where as I just have not seen the documentation where it has been debated or discussed.

The MLPA bugs me too!

Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District

Not A Native

July 26, 2010 at 2:42 pm

Like a magician, Simpson specializes in misdirecting the attention of community memberts while he schemes to fleece the mill, again.

Simpson’s “partner” Nolan put out about $200K to get title to the mill property. Simpson put up nothing but fast talk. The mill was overvalued on Lee & Man’s books at $20M and they “sold” it for that only by taking a note back for almost the whole price. Lee & Man were desperate to sell stock and had to clean up their books. The mill was a money pit and their investors knew it.

Its difficult to say the mill’s value but at liquation I’d guess no more than $3M. There’s essentially no market for the equipment for production elsewhere. If the mill is liquidated, Simpson will walk away empty handed just like from his past failed ventures.

Simpson’s problem now is how to “unlock” $50M using $200K of equity and a $3M property. Only by starting the mill can he get on the gravy train of collecting big salary and bonuses and playing the kingfish. He sold off some parts for walking around money but no sane private capitalist or Government is willing to let him leverage his puny stake based on his lack of skills and knowledge and piss poor track record. He also needs to write down the Lee & Man note for a small fraction of its face value. So here’s where that “community support” he’s constantly referring to comes in.

Simpson’s asked for a 90 day delay in the discharge permit and timeline to demonstrate financial capability. In a short time Simpson will be playing the “local” card, coming around asking for grants/subsidies/donations/investments from people and organizations here, like Headwater’s Fund.

Sound familiar? Yeah you’ve recently heard it before from the old Humboldt Creamery. Just remember, when Simpson comes calling, put your hands over your pockets. Those who don’t will be shorn like sheep.

Congratulations… that might be the most ignorant comment I have read. Not a single accusation you just made is even close to the truth. If you seek the truth then call me and we will have you out to our offices this week. Once I prove each of our statements wrong are you going to provide a public apology? I suspect not. Since you portray yourself to be my charachter witness, why don’t you expose your identity? Take us up on our offer or you will receive no further comments to your inflammatory remarks.

Not A Native

July 26, 2010 at 4:12 pm

Gee Simpson, thats the second time you’ve said you won’t comment here any more. Three strikes, you’re out. Just broken promise, its your track record. Your office? Your ass! Just write here the whole truth of your personal contribution to the equuity of the mill and how much Nolan put up. And the terms that “worthy pick” has on the note its holding.

You’ve already been caught red handed lying about the amount of bearings sold off to finance your travel junkets begging for cash. So Bob, tell the whole story here or just shut up, like you promised you would. The question everyone wants to know is when is the secondary treatment going to be built. The water board conditioned the CDO on promises of that but the reality you already know is its not going to happen because it doesn’t “pencil out” of your pencil. So, you want the community to “eat” the pollution just like you made it do in years past. Got an idea for you, get Arkley to buy in to your scheme first. He won’t, but you two deserve each other.

Even the defenders here demand the plant to operate only within the requirements of the discharge permit. It never did under your watch and you’re just playing the same con job now. Oh also they’d like it without the noxious smells that have driven families out of the neighborhoods of West Eureka and made it a sacrifice zone. Eureka is sick and tired of being beaten to a pulp.

Your wrong Not A Native. Eureka is sick of people who poo-poo everything that doesn’t fit in their narrow view of the world.

Why dont all you against people shut-up, and judge by actions, not your biased views based on pieces of the past that fit your preconceived opinions about the mill.

Farmer

July 27, 2010 at 9:53 am

Don’t lose your cool B. Many people have a narrow view of the world, perhaps most.

The problem I see with the mill is that it will likely increase clear-cutting of hardwoods and also give Green Diamond et.al. the opportunity to cut Redwoods for pulp that are old enough to legally be logged but are not big enough to make more than a 4×4 with the butt log. How are we, the public, to reign in an industry like this after the fact? Especially when many, like you, consider throwback practices as clear-cutting and herbicide spraying to be perfectly acceptable?

Bolithio

July 27, 2010 at 10:11 am

How are we, the public, to reign in an industry like this after the fact? Especially when many, like you, consider throwback practices as clear-cutting and herbicide spraying to be perfectly acceptable?

Im not sure if we are at an impasse here. First, I dont think its fair to say that ‘many like me’ are in favor of throwback practices. To me, when I hear that phrase, I think of pre-2000 logging practices/rules. I do not consider a roll-back to that and previous eras as acceptable.

What a pulp mill will do however, is provide an opportunity for real good projects that have needed to happen for along time. You brought up two valid points: hardwoods and clear-cutting.

Our true hardwood stands, that is forests that where hardwood forests prior to historic logging eras are not at risk. These true oak stands are generally black oak, white oak, live oak, etc.. These species are not in the pulp recipe.

Bolithio

July 27, 2010 at 10:24 am

(didn’t mean to submit yet…)

Hardwoods. Tanoak on the other hand pioneered into much of the conifer stands that were logged in the 50-60’s to the extent that the redwood/douglas-fir have not been able to recover. In a world without humans, tanoak stands would grow dense, break in the wind and snow creating fuel ladders and eventually burn giving way to conifers again. In our reality however, we have removed fire from the landscape. So we have a unique situation where for one, we continue to promote species compositions that are out of balance with what once was, and we live in these ares which are becoming serious fire risks to our lives and property. The rehabilitation potential is awesome with a pulp mill!! If we can get into these places and treat them now, the sooner the next generations will have vibrant conifer stands to manage.

—

Clearcutting. Lets not get into good vrs bad here. One fact about clear cutting is that stands that were planted are generally planted at a very high density to ensure stocking. These forests tend to grow into ‘pole patches’ that become very competitive, but ultimately slow the growth potential overall. Pre-commercial thinning is a boon to industrial and non-industrial owners alike, but generally this practice is economically infeasible, and thus rarely happens. This tending phase has been really neglected on non-industrial lands, and shrewd owners out there could really capitalize on the pulp mill in this aspect.

Lastly, fuel break treatments which generally remove un-merchantable vegetation will now have much more viability, and this crucial practice will be actually efficient with a pulp mill (as opposed to just burning the material int he woods).

Farmer

July 27, 2010 at 10:35 am

In the Mattole watershed, Tanoaks were a major food source for humans, as you know, and they were widespread. Most of the big old oaks were killed for their bark during european colonization. I don’t hear the timber industry expressing interest in restoring the old oak groves. In fact, I saw (in several instances) mixed old-growth Tanoak and Douglas fir stands being clear-cut and then replaced with redwood clones by Pacific Lumber. Humboldt Redwood Company continues the same exact practice in neighboring watersheds.

These practices are being done first and foremost to make a lot of money for a few people at the expense of the rest of us. The grand vision being implemented across a million acres of timber land in our area is not yours, I think it’s just your job (and folks in your position) to come up with justifying logic after the fact.

Farmer

July 27, 2010 at 10:40 am

You really give the industry the benefit of the doubt. A boon YUM yarding, I thought so!

Farmer

July 27, 2010 at 10:41 am

A boon to YUM yarding I meant.

Farmer

July 27, 2010 at 10:56 am

To say that tanoaks “pioneered” into conifer stands implies that they came from somewhere else. They were there the whole time.

Native practices in this region include controlled burning that favors tanoak and eliminates conifers. Your theoretical landscape that is devoid of humans is only an academic argument that has not actually occurred. The closest thing to that is when the indigenous people were violently cleared out and the newcomers discontinued or outlawed the controlled burning. That’s when Douglas Fir took over historic Tanoak stands and praries.

Bolithio

July 27, 2010 at 11:17 am

I think it’s just your job (and folks in your position) to come up with justifying logic after the fact.

come on man… Is that what you think my job is? Give me the benefit of the doubt! My job is to manage forests.

Tanoak was always a part of the landscape. Your right. But not to the extent it has dominated in much of this county. When I say pioneer, Im referring to the fact that they were the first species to establish on the site, and eventually dominate.

No matter what the future brings us, you can rest assured that there will always be tan oak in the woods!!

I wont disagree on any of the bad news from the past. While I learn from it, and use past adverse effects as guide for decisions today, the future interests me most. Yes, I give the timber industry the benefit of the doubt, not becuase its my job, but becuase I really believe in what I do.

Real innovation here would be to produce tree-free pulp. Especially since the promoter says he plans to get wood chiips from far away. At one time, Evergreen Pulp started a pilot project with the central valley to test the use of reeds for feedstock. That kind of thinking is waay beyond what the present profiteer/exploiter can grasp.

L0gger

July 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm

Eel River Sawmills sold?
Eel River Sawmills may have a new owner.
August 15, 2002

The company has reportedly come to an agreement, pending a shareholder vote in September, to sell its assets and the assets of Fairhaven Power Co. to Donald E. Nolan Sr., owner/operator of Don Nolan Trucking, a Fortuna outfit.

According to the Humboldt Beacon, a letter explaining the pending sale was recently distributed to workers.

L.E.A.P. is in fact Carol Binder. In fairness to Carol, she was one of two speakers who were present during the water board hearing. Carol spoke in opposition of re-issuing our NPDES permit. Carol’s argument lacks merit, and she has turned down numerous offers to visit the mill to discuss her concerns.

“Our new water agreement (option) pays the Board more money than it has ever received from any of the prior owners. I believe the price is $1.3 million per year. You can verify that with the Board. We raised the price to eliminate the variability of the prior agreement.”

Before you scream the Russians are coming the Russians are coming, I would suggest you do your research. You have once again posted a newpaper article story that is outdated. Ask the HBMWD for a copy of the offer on the table, which was approved by the Board. The price is $1.3 million. Once again Bill, spreading the pulp fiction gets you an “F” for the day.

The point is not the few thousand dollars the point is the cost of maintaining the industrial system.

“District staff outlined well over $1 million in upcoming repairs to just the industrial side of the system. In all, the district also serves about 80,000 residents and businesses via seven municipalities and special districts, whose rates have climbed sharply with the demise of the pulp mill.

That’s because the mill has traditionally paid the costs of its part of the system plus a portion of the cost for parts of the system they share. That portion has long been large compared to the mill’s benefits from the shared elements.

”We want to sell you the water,” said Director Tera Prucha, “but we can’t do it by putting the public and the ratepayers at risk.” ”

“At the district’s meeting Thursday, Bob Simpson of the Freshwater Pulp Co. encouraged the water district to put pressure on Danco, co-owner of the Samoa Pacific Group, and the California Redwood Co., to fix leaks on a pipeline from the mill’s industrial water supply. ”

“The pulp mill’s line pumps water used for fire suppression throughout Samoa through agreements and hook-ups between Samoa Pacific Group and other entities such as the Samoa Cookhouse, the Peninsula School and the Arcata Recycling Center’s plant.

”It appears the only way to get fire water to the peninsula is through the use of our facility,” Simpson said, adding that the group is willing to let the water tank be used for free if the leaks are fixed.

According to Simpson, the pipeline is losing about 24,000 gallons a day and Freshwater Pulp can no longer afford to shoulder the costs. ”

Your challenge is that you don’t know the details behind the Water Board or Freshwater’s comments. Nor have you demonstrated any knowledge of our process. You read the newspape and you take things out of context to help you make your point. If your fiction goes uncontested it becomes fact and Bill builds his legend at the expense of the Samoa mill, our employees and the community. Shame on you!

The last blog you posted was about fire water. The leaks were fixed and California Redwood, Redwood Dock, the Town of Samoa, The Cookhouse, the Peninsula School and the Recycling center are now safe. Prior to Freshwater shutting off delivery of industrial water, we found each of the groups listed above were hooked up to Freshwater’s water tower. In other words, they were getting free water from the mill. Then we found out they had leaky pipes, which caused our pump to run all day to keep the system pressurized. This was costing the mill over $1,000 per month. All of the above users repaired their water lines and they installed their own system to replenish their water system.

Bill, I heard your septic tank was leaking and it is contaminating your neighbors potable water. Your neighbor’s 3 year old child has become stricken with an incurable disease. You knew this was going on for over one year and did nothing about it. What do you have to say about that?

How would you feel if the fiction I just wrote became the subject of a blog? How would you feel if you had to take time away from your family and friends on a Sunday so that you could dispel the fiction spread by someone you has nothing better to do with his time? Let me help you with the answer. You would not like it. Please, stop the nonsense and quit wasting my time.

I would like to read a copy of the HMWD contract with Freshwater Pulp. Its not on the HMWD site, anyone know where to find it?

Thanks

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bolithio

August 1, 2010 at 11:35 am

Bill, isnt it annoying when people answer a question with a unrelated question?

Why should a private for profit corporation get subsidized by common rate payers like a homeowner or small business owner in Eureka, Arcata, or Rio Dell?

Your characterization of the relationship for fire water and the people using the leaky fire suppression system is false.

You hate subsides. Sorry. As long as I can remember, our government has had plenty of liberal policy makers who believe in supporting American business that provide things necessary for the greater good of the society. Ill go out on a limb and say that jobs and paper are two of those things. Pulp is industrial manufacturing. This is something we are loosing rapidly in this country. Our government is doing everything they can (in their own limited vision) to prevent this.

Your hippy model may have merit, but you cant just ignore the reality of the situation. Why do you think Canada subsidies its timber industry? Because they are able to dominate the worlds market share, have incredible efficiency when it comes to fiber production, all while supplying their citizens with jobs and products essential to their society.

It is smart for CA to help keep infrastructure like the Samoa mill alive. Tearing down over 200 million worth of investment is dumb.

It is very possible that in the near future, countries like China and India will have so much demand for all the products we eat up that they wont be able to supply them to us anymore. When that happens, while we have had a few decades without smelling our own shit, Americans while ultimately have to accept some realities about pollution.

As I pointed out clearly, I am a socialist, I am not opposed to the government subsidizing jobs – for a certain time and under certain conditions – but if the government is providing the capital then the people should get the profits, not some Johnny come Lately “capitalist” who is just trying to parlay a very small investment into Big Money.

If we are going to subsidize jobs, they need to be government jobs in government businesses. Once the businesses are up and running, the stock in these business can be given back to the people to do with as they wish, and the government will no longer own the business. Just like the people in Alaska share in the oil wealth of their state.

So if everyone agrees to save these jobs, lets get it on but the government will own the mill, not Mr. Simpson.

If we wanted to re-create a “conservative” paradise here in Humboldt like Sarah Palin’s Alaska we would tax every redwood log cut @ $1,000 and then use the proceeds to cut a check once a year to every resident of Humboldt County.

The old mill is not a “$200 million dollar investment” it clearly could have been purchased in 2008 by anyone with a couple hundred grand in a suitcase.

It may be true that millions of government subsidy monies have been flushed down the toilet at the pulp mill already, but that is another story.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Bolithio

August 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm

Bill, where did the Palin thing come from? Who wants Alaska here? Also, Im not complaining about anything.

Regarding investment. Look at the street in front of your house. How much is worth? Is it worth the amount of money spent on the last paving? The last 10 pavings? The entire history of the road including plumbing and the technological changes over time?

Were not talking about investment in terms of this could be worth this. Im saying the mill represents an investment in energy. Resources, time, people, etc… While as Americans we are programed to throw everything away once we think were done, the millions of dollars, hours, and resources used are the investment – which in the case of the mill would be huge waste to loose – not to mention short sighted the face of a world economy.

Freshwater is not asking, nor will it accept, any State or Federal subsidy. Show me a document that supports your accusation so I can once again disprove your conspiracy theory.

I will post a copy of the memorandum of understanding between Freshwater and HBMWD on our website. After you read it, please post a blog to let the viewers know you made a false accusation earlier. The proof is your earlier comment.

Let’s start at the bottom of your new conspiracy theory and work our way up to the ridiculous pulp fiction.

1) Freshwater acquired the Samoa mill assets. The fine remains the obligation of Evergreen. Call EPA and the State Water Board and they will confirm this for you.

2) In March of 2009 we asked the Department of Energy for a loan guarantee as part of the stimulus package the government was providing. We were denied. Had we received the guarantee we would have had to secure a bank loan and we would have paid principle and interest like any for profit company. The Government would have received a First Deed of Trust in exchange for their guarantee. By definition, a guarantee is not a subsidy. We have never asked the Government for a Grant, nor do we intend to. Oops, another false accusation.

Bill, you better come with more than accusations when you throw out a negative blog. Show me something that indicates Freshwater, or any other prior owner of the Samoa mill, was subsidized. In case you don’t know the definition of the word I have provided it for you.

Subsidy:
1) a grant or gift of money from a government to a private company, organization, or charity to help it to function
2) a monetary gift or contribution to somebody or something, especially to pay expenses

“Benbow said on Thursday that he needed a commitment from the board right away, which led directors and staff to engage in an unwieldy public negotiation. Directors expressed concern about a 10-year fixed-price contract that left the district liable for catastrophic damage or major repairs to district infrastructure.

Board Chairwoman Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap said that Freshwater was asking the district to take a risk that public money might end up subsidizing a private interest.

Benbow said that in today’s lending environment, there would be no way to convince a financial institution to agree to fund a business that might realize large, unforeseen bills.

The $80,000 a month, or $960,000 per year, is less than what the mill averaged in recent years — about $1.1 million.

District staff outlined well over $1 million in upcoming repairs to just the industrial side of the system. In all, the district also serves about 80,000 residents and businesses via seven municipalities and special districts, whose rates have climbed sharply with the demise of the pulp mill.

If you knew what you were talking about we could have an intelligent discussion. Please call Carol Rische and ask her how it works. Have Carol explain variable cost, contribution to general fund etc., etc. You are making yourself look foolish by debating me on a subject you know nothing about.

When you read the water supply agreement we are posting perhaps you will realize the transparency in which I operate.

This is the Socratic Method, where our understanding of the real world is advanced by the asking and answering of questions. I think we are doing just fine.

Even if we never find the “truth” at least some of the darker corners are gaining illumination.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 6:24 pm

Bob Simpson,

I commend you for your patience in continuing this dialogue and attempting to answer questions, even from individuals who are apparently dead set against the pulp mill reopening. I realize it must be quite frustrating, and that you have a lot of other things to do.

Even among those of us who are willing to give you a chance to make a go of it, there are still a lot of concerns about pollution, about the feasibility of actually making your business plan work, about whether most of the jobs will really go to local folks, and about whether all the promises made now will be kept a few years down the line — and I think these concerns are quite reasonable given the troubled history of the Samoa mill. We will do our utmost to hold you to those promises, even as we wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Your willingness to take the time to address these kinds of concerns, even from those who seem unwilling to really listen to you or acknowledge the answers they are given, has not gone unnoticed by the rest of us. Keep up the good work!

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 6:27 pm

Highboltage,

I admire your tenacity and I’m sure you are sincere in your opposition. But from what I have seen in these comments, you seem to be taking the tack of “throw everything at the wall and see if anything sticks.” You never seem willing to acknowledge that a previous question has been answered or that a previous accusation you have made has been shown to be false, you just move on to making a new accusation, or repeating an old one, or posting another out-of-date newspaper clip. In other words, you seem intent on operating your own Rumour Mill, one that is spewing a whole lot of intellectually toxic effluent.

If you have any sense of fairness whatsoever, why not take Bob up on his offer to go visit the plant and meet with Bob and learn more about the pulping process, the state-of-the-art pollution control equipment, and Freshwater Pulp’s business plan. If you still aren’t persuaded, you can always restart your one-man rumour mill.

On the other hand, you might actually find that you are persuaded that re-opening the mill is, on balance a good thing for this community. There’s no shame in changing your mind after learning more facts. It happens to open-minded people all the time.

I’m not “apparently” opposed to the mill restart I AM OPPOSED to it and have publicly said so, and have stated my reasons in a mostly civilized manner. Really. I am not the only person opposed to this polluter. There are at least two groups of Eureka citizens who are opposed to it.

Mr. Simpson has left lots of questions unanswered, and there are lots more to come.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 6:33 pm

In my understanding of the Socratic Method, it is considered good form to acknowledge the answers to questions and concede points as appropriate, not simply change the subject, much less to repeat questions that have been answered or repeat accusations that have been shown to be false. Your approach seems more in line with the approach of Sophists than Socrates. In that sense, you could be said to be engaged in a highly “SOPHISTicated” propaganda campaign.

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 6:38 pm

Bill,

Why not take Bob up on his offer to have you visit the plant and its offices, to help you learn more about the pulping process, the pollution prevention systems and his business plan? What are you afraid of? What would you lose by taking him up on the offer?

Let’s have Humboldt County buy out Mr. Simpson for a million dollars. He gets to walk with more than pocket money. Then we gift the mill to the union, for free. Let them run it.

A million dollars will be cheap, I promise you.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 7:04 pm

Bill,

(1) Have you asked the County Supervisors if they happen to have an extra million lying around and if so, whether they are interested in giving it away?

(2) Have you asked the union members, or their leaders, if they would even WANT the responsibility of running the mill (with all the problems and liabilities you say it has) or if they felt they even had the expertise to do so successfully?

(3) If the union owned the plant, would all your other concerns magically vanish? Or are you proposing to give the plant to the union and then do everything you can to prevent them from opening it?

(4) Have you asked Mr. Simpson if he would even be interested in selling?

Here’s an idea: ideas are fine, but doing a little research before floating pie-in-the-sky ideas is en even better idea.

P.S. “He gets to walk with more than pocket money.” Umm, I thought you said you were AGAINST goverment giveaways to private businesspeople!?

Anyway, the question is, why don’t you want to take Bob up on his offer to meet with you, show you around the plant, help you learn about the pulp-making process, the pollution prevention systems and his business plan. Since, as you point out, you aren’t concerned about anonymity, what ARE you concerned about? And it’s not an either/or proposition…you can take him up on his offer, learn what you can, ask questions and get detailed answers, and still oppose the re-opening of the plant if you choose to. I just don’t understand why you would pass on that opportunity…perhaps you could explain?

Yes, if the union (or the government) owned the mill it would assuage my economic concerns. My environmental concerns would remain. As I said earlier today, my opposition is both environmental and economic.

My philosophy is that if we are going to subsidize a business, then the business should belong to us (the government as our proxy) so that profits as well as risks and costs are socialized.

Once the plant is up and running the ownership interest can be returned to the people (and relinquished by the government) thus preserving and reinvigorating the private sector economy.

Buying out Mr. Simpson for a million is a cheap way to avoid the multimillion dollar subsidies that are inevitably down the road. If there is truly a viable economic model for the mill to operated at a profit in the real world then there is no reason why the union should not want to own it and run it, especially if it will be worth $50,000.000 in a few years, as Mr. Simpson’s pencil has it figured.

Bill doesn’t want his identity known because it is easier to spread pulp fiction when you have no fear because you are not accountable. Bill, are you ready to concede the pulp mill bearings, water supply agreement and alleged subsidie issues?

Speaking of subsidies, I’ll be waiting for you to provide proof of subsidies you accused Freshwater and former pulp mill owners of receiving. Feel free to respond after you read about the new water supply terms soon to be posted on our website. You know….the agreement you stated was $80K per month when it fact it is over $108K per month. Why is it you never admit your wrong. Is that part of the Socratic method?

The difference between me and John Driscoll is one owns the bearing inventory and the pulp mill and the other tries to understand the situation so that he can report to the public what he thinks he has learned from speaking with his source. Many times reporters get it wrong because they don’t understand the subject matter. For this reason, I give John Driscoll a pass. In fact, John might be the most polite reporter I have ever met. And I can assure you, John apologizes when he gets it wrong.

So, Bill, it sounds like you would, indeed, like to “give” the mill to the union, then prevent them from opening it due to your environmental concerns, leaving them holding the bag for any liabilities, site clean-up etc, related to the idle plant. I’m sure they can hardly wait to recieve such a “gift.”

No one has posted a copy of the agreement with the Water District yet, so it is not possible for me to comment on that beyond what has been printed in the newspaper.

You have not adequately explained the huge difference between what Driscoll reported and what you claimed on the sale of the bearings.

You most certainly have been seeking subsidies of all kinds from any government body. The fact that you might not have gotten any yet encourages me that our government may indeed be smarter than I thought it was.

The multi-year waivers you got from the water board on pollution are indeed subsidies, as they defer millions in expenses that you otherwise are legally required to undertake. They are expenses that the polluting mill externalizes to the rest of us.

Louisiana Pacific is liable (and by some accounts willing) for the clean up of the mill site. So no, it would not fall upon the union.

It would only fall on the union to run the plant at least as a break even proposition while obeying the Clean Water Act.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 8:29 pm

“Why is it you never admit your wrong?”

Bill may be operating under the misunderstanding that conceding a point demonstrates weakness. In fact, in real debate between intellectually honest individuals, conceding a valid point made by the other person, or conceding that you were wrong about something when such wrongness has been demonstrated — this actually *increases* your credibility on the remaining points. It’s a dymanic that few folks commenting in these blog comments seem to grasp.

“Is that part of the Socratic method?”

Nope, it’s part of the So-Crap-Stick method, of which Bill is apparently a master. Of course if the approach is just throw as much crap at the wall as possible, in the hopes that something, anything will stick…well then why concede anything? Might as well just pretend that a lot of the crap is sticking, I suppose. (Or maybe it’s just a matter of misplaced pride?)

The person who is posting anonymously is “intellectually honest” and I, using my real name, am a crap stick master?

What part of posting anonymously is “intellectually honest?” I will give Mr. Simpson at least this much credit, he has more balls than you do, R.A.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 8:42 pm

The bearings issue is really a pathetic display of grasping at straws. What exactly is your contention, Bill, that the bearings are gone and irreplaceable? That Bob previously intentionally mislead people into thinking that the majority of the bearings were gone, or that he is intentionally misleading people now by saying that they never were gone and they still have plenty? Anyway, as has previously been pointed out, new bearings are neither especially expensive nor difficult to obtain, so aside from wasting Bob’s time by trying to get him to explain, yet again, that this is a non-issue, what is the POINT of you obsession with the bearings?

Again, this leads back to the question that you, Bill, have persistently refused to answer: Why are you so dead-set against taking Bob up on his offer to meet with you, help you learn about the pulp-making process, the equipment (including your precious bearings) and so on? Are you afraid that if you actually understood the details you would not feel so free to obsess about pointless items, such as BearingGate?

I think the term “willfully ignorant” begins to come into play when people are offered an opportunity to learn more and instead choose to ignore that opportunity and continue to spew meaningless complaints from their position of comfy ignorance. I thought you were an advocate of socialism, but it seems like you are acting more like an adherent of KnowNothingism.

tim

August 1, 2010 at 8:44 pm

This is not about just the water. What about other pollutants such as Styrene, Naphthalene, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Methanol, Formaldehyde, Benzene, Ammonia, Acetaldehyde, Nitrogen Oxides, Sulfur Dioxide, Xylenes, Carbon Monoxide, Particulants like heavy metals, and Hexavalent Chlorine? I know this is about a water permit but I have heard that these are coming from pulp mills.

A real business plan for the Samoa Pulp mill would have to start with a secondary wastewater treatment plant. That is the only way the pulp mill will ever meet BOD limits.

Say it can be built for $25,000,000 like in Mr. Simpsons plan. Assume that the wastewater plant must be a stand alone for profit operation. Amortize the cost of it plus the yearly operation expense plus a profit for the owners and then use that figure to pencil in to the expenses of the mill.

If the math still makes sense then let’s build the wastewater plant FIRST. Let Humboldt County capitalize it. It will yield $25,000,000 in construction jobs RIGHT NOW plus some ongoing good union jobs for operating engineers.

After we build the wastewater plant and get it running we can distribute the ownership to the people of Humboldt County.

If the secondary wastewater treatment plant is built and it is proved that the Venturi scrubbers are working adequately my environmental objections would be erased.

when looking at the environmental costs of the mill, what about the clear cutting of tanoak to be ground into chips? A lot of tanoak forest between Bald Hills road and the Klamath has been devastated in the last six or seven years. Green Diamond is surely looking for a better return to get as much tanoak replanted with redwood as possible. How many truck loads of chips per day will the mill need at full production?

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 8:54 pm

Anonymity has nothing to do with intellectual honesty. One can anonymously opine that the earth is round, or attach one’s name to the claim that the earth is flat. Two separate issues, dude. Logic: Try it sometime.

I do appreciate the additional credibility that ordinarily comes with posting under a “real name” — but the flip side of that is that if the “real name” person continuously posts nonsense, then their credibility suffers just as the credibility of a pseudonymous poster would suffer if they continuously posted nonsense.

But I have my own perfectly valid reasons for posting pseudonymously, which I’m not going to bother repeating here, other than to point out that those of us who work for a living (as opposed to collecting benefits) have additional considerations, and I look forward to the day when I am financially secure enough to run the risk of losing customers for my small business based on opinions rendered on blogs.

And finally, I would point out that “but you’re posting anonymously and I’m using my real name” does exactly NOTHING to address the points raised in my comments, nor does it answer the question about why you have chosen to remain willfully ignorant about the pulpmaking process, the equipment, pollution prevention systems, and the business plan, as opposed to making the good-faith effort to meet with Bob and learn a little something. So anonymous vs. real name approach (assuming anyone ever actually clicks through to see your real name, which I find dounbtful) is a lovely little distraction, but is ultimately meaningless to the point being discussed above. But hey, if that’s all you’ve got…well have at it. Willfully ignorant under a real name…I don’t think that’s something to be especially proud of, but that’s just my opinion.

Really you underestimate the people around here. The vast majority of people would still do business with you even if they disagreed with you. Most people here in Humboldt are pretty nice on a personal level no matter what their politics.

Would you boycott someone elses small business just because you disagreed with them on a blog? I don’t think even you would do that, R. A.

It might be that people would respect your courage and your views even if they didn’t agree with you.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

tim

August 1, 2010 at 9:10 pm

Will someone please give me information about the pollutants I have listed?

You may be right Bill, but then again you may not. Look how quick some folks (Jeff Muskrat & Co for example) were to howl BOYCOTT toward Six Rivers Brewery, Cypress Grove Chevre and others, all because those businesses support the Richardson Grove realignment.

For someone who is supported by entitlements (which, by definition you’re “entitled” to, and can’t be taken away without due process, and certainly can’t be taken away by members of the general public) to crow about how “courageous” they are being by using their own name, well I find that a bit unpersuasive, not to mention rather self-serving.

More importantly, you continue to dodge the question: Why insist on remaining willfully ignorant by refusing to meet with Mr. Simpson and refusing to learn more about the plant, the equipment, the process, the pollution prevention systems and the business plan? I would still like to know why you refuse to take him up on his offer? What do you have to lose by going and taking a look?

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 10:03 pm

Sorry, I meant Lost Coast Brewery. I have no idea if Six Rivers has taken a position on Richardson Grove or whether Muskrat, Inc. has demanded a boycott of them.

Can I take a couple of videographers with me? And a few environmentalists of my choice?

Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 10:27 pm

Ask Bob directly…a phone call would do it. You might be pleasantly surprised — Bob seems to be quite comfortable with the idea of showing people around the mill and answering their questions. I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer was “sure, come on down.”

By the way, I find it rather telling that none of our many environmental groups have come out in oppostion to the mill re-opening. Unless I have missed something, I haven’t heard that NEC, or EPIC or Baykeeper, or Humboldt Bay Stewards, or the Sierra Club or the Green Party or any of the other prominent enviro groups has decided to make an issue out of this. This suggest to me that some of the best-informed envirnonmentalists around have concluded that re-opening one of the least-polluting pulp mills in the country, perhaps in the world, isn’t such a bad idea from a Big Picture environmental standpoint. At least that’s how it looks to me.

Certainly Bob has made it clear that he’s invited Carol Binder of LEAP, but like you, she apparently hasn’t taken him up on the offer. Perhaps the two of you could go together? Maybe even with a few other environmentalists, if you can find some who actually share your point of view on this…

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 10:42 pm

By the way, I DO think you raise a few legitimate points, but that these points are being lost amongst all the many accusations and irrelevant “gotcha” questions you’re tossing around (like the “bearings” issue, which as far as I can tell have no real bearing on the issue).

One place where we agree is that I do think that it’s fundamentally wrong that one owner can rack up a bunch of fines, then declare bankruptcy, sell the assets to a new owner without the new owner also assuming all the liabilities, including fines, moneys owed to workers, etc. At a philosophical level, and on a Big Picture policy level, that just seems wrong to me.

But if that is how the law works (and apparently it is in this case), then I can hardly blame the new owner for not wanting to voluntarily pay off those liabilities of the old owner when they are not required to. This is a problem that’s a lot bigger than just Evergreen and Freshwater Pulp, and from a legal standpoint I just don’t think there’s any traction there.

And as far as moneys owed to the workers or the union, I suspect that if you ask the workers and the union officials if they would rather the issues with Evergreen prevent Freshwater Pulp from re-opening, the answer would be a resounding “no!” I think these folks would rather have jobs going forward, and revenues coming in to the union coffers, rather than cutting off their noses to spite their faces by insisting that Freshwater make good on Evergreen’s debts, even though Freshwater is not legally obligated to, and even though doing so might prevent the mill from being able to re-open.

Anyway, I think you would better serve your cause if you stuck to a few issues where you might be on more solid ground, rather than taking the approach of making as many accusations as possible, even though the great majority of those accusations seem to have no basis in fact. But then I’m mostly on the other side of this issue, so there’s no particular reason for you to take my advice, other than the fact that it may be sound advice.

tim

August 1, 2010 at 10:48 pm

Californian’s for alternatives to Toxics and Center for Biological Diversity are prominent environmental groups.

tim

August 1, 2010 at 10:52 pm

Jobs are great but at what price. The health of the workers and neighbors of the plant should rank #1, I would hope.

Bolithio

August 1, 2010 at 11:03 pm

Can I take a couple of videographers with me? And a few environmentalists of my choice?

oooh kinky!

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 11:11 pm

And have CATs and CBD come out publicly against the re-opening of the pulp mill? If so, on what grounds? If they HAVE come out in opposition to the Samoa plant reopening, perhaps Patty Clary and someone from CBD could accompany Carol Binder and Bill “Highbodtage,” since Bill apparently is unwilling to go on his own…

As far as the health of the workers, I’m certainly no expert, but this comes from the Freshwater Pulp website:

1995 John Hopkins Study – Health Profile Of Pulp Workers (2 mb)

Study concludes, “The results of the study indicate that all workers in the pulp and paper industry do not have significantly higher rates of mortality from all causes or from any specific cause of death compared to the US population and, in fact, usually have significantly lower mortality ratios than the comparison population.”

As far as the health of neighbors, given that this is one of the least-polluting pulp mills in the country, perhaps in the world, utilizing a chlorine-free bleaching process that produces no dioxin, it seems pretty selfish to insist that it stay closed while we continue to use pulp-based products from other, much-more-polluting pulp mills around the country and around the world, most of which spew plenty of dioxin into the environment. Is the health of people near those pulp mills in Vietnam or Louisiana not as important as the health of people here?

It seems to me like it is either a position of extreme selfishness or clueless privilege, which I would sum up as: “We don’t want ANY pollution here, even though it’s one of the least-polluting pulp mills on the planet, but we’ll continue to buy plenty of paper products made from pulp produced in dioxin-spewing plants elsewhere, because those people don’t matter as much as us highly-privileged Humboltians…or because those people are out-of-sight and therefore out-of-mind…or because I’m just going to remain willfully ignorant of my ecological footprint as it extends beyond my own backyard.”

the reasonable anonymous

August 1, 2010 at 11:31 pm

O.K., I looked at the website for Californians for Alternatives to Toxics and the website for the Center for Biological Diversity, and neither of them says anything about those organizations opposing the re-opening of the Samoa pulp mill.

There IS one story on the CATS website about those two groups threatening to file suit against the EPA over its failure to periodically undate pulp mill pollution standards. On the North Coast Journal website, there is a story about it that includes a comments section where Bob Simpson of Freshwater Pulp writes:

“I applaud CATs effort to hold EPA accountable when necessary. We agree with a portion of the claim CATs will likely make should they proceed with filing a lawsuit…”

So it seems that Bob Simpson and Freshwater Pulp are at least partially in agreement with CATs threat to sue the EPA over the need to periodically update standards.

And nowhere in that CATS / CBD story in the North Coast Journal, nor anywhere on either of their websites, does it state that either of these groups have come out in opposition to the re-opening of the Samoa mill.

So, Tim, I would declare a #PropagandaFAIL at 10:48. Thannks for playing, try again…

Anonymous

August 2, 2010 at 4:25 am

Bob was in town this weekend for a party. Maybe he is still here.

Goob

August 2, 2010 at 7:14 am

Simpson, Nolan and Benbow are holding this community hostage like a bunch of Somali pirates. They threaten to kill the mill if they don’t get their way.

Some of us in the community are standing up to them. On the other hand, some of us have Stockholm Syndrome, and we are living in denial. This is a crappy deal for the community, the workers and the environment.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

August 2, 2010 at 7:55 am

Wow, did this thread go stringy……

ANYHOW…,

Unions are no friend of small business owners, nor their employees. (unions create labor and market price fixations)

Question: Can the Pulp Mill employment be 100% non-union? Or, is there a stipulation somewhere in legal, contract jargon that mandates ALL union jobs? In other words, how is Bob Simpson deciding who gets hired or not? Is there some sort of affirmative action crap for unions too? Just curious because I am an anti-union human being who don’t need someone else to hold my hand telling me how to understand economics and finances – especially those instances where that signed, sealed and delivered union contract for those union members “gets busted” ala bankruptcies, contract voidings, etc…! Such the ripple affect.

I love seeing unions go through hell!

Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District

Jack. N.Oftenoff

August 2, 2010 at 8:19 am

More blah, BLAH ,,,,
I HATE THE MILL,,,
I HATE UNIONS,,,,,
Get over it .

There is an apparent agreement between Simpson and the union to rehire 65% of the previous workforce. It is unclear at the moment whether any contract has been signed.

What is clear is that a third of the previous employees will be out in the cold. The union has been delegated the task of deciding who gets the jobs and who doesn’t. Not such a sweet task.

Jeff, I am by no means a union insider but from what I can tell the AWPPW is a decent union, highly democratic and founded originally as a rebel break away movement from a larger union. It is their job to advocate for their members so I don’t harsh them for it. I just disagree with them. Sure the mill start up will be good for SOME of their members, but it will be destructive economically and environmentally for the rest of us.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

August 2, 2010 at 8:37 am

I don’t disagree with those who say unions back in the day used to do the right thing – today is a different story. Government and private fascisms have taken over to juxtapose members’ mindsets regarding unions.

Any agreement may have to do with the previous operations demise!

Question for Bob Simpson – are you allowed to elaborate on any agreements made with union reps with respect to hiring practices for FTPM? I’ll read it if you provide it.

We currently do not have an agreement with the AWPPW. A contract will be in place prior to startup. \

Labor is certainly a key component to the mill’s manufacturing cost, but labor is certainly not what closed the pulp mill. Pulp chips account for 50% of manufacturing costs where labor is about 15% of cost. No disrespect intended, but between our management team, investment banker and accountants, we are qualified and able to determine whether our cost structure is competitive. But I appreciate your concern.

According to the HBMWD the cost of upgrading the industrial system is upwards of a million dollars. According to the framework you will be paying that, is that correct? I assume you will be paying it in advance, given the rancid history of this mill.

Your partner Benbow explained it perfectly when he said that no private investor could tolerate this risk – it would have to be the government (water district) that would shoulder the risk.

You want us (the public) to take the risk and you want to reap the profits. Ain’t happening. We are sick of these bogus “public-private partnerships” that amount to nothing but corporate welfare.

If we the people decide to socialize the mill to provide jobs then we need to own the mill and keep the profits for ourselves.

Please enlighten the blogging community. In your mind, how are Simpson, Nolan & Benbow holding the county hostage? I suspect if you had to sign your real name to this blog you would refrain from participation in a blog.

To all of the anonymous bloggers: I will no longer respond to your questions unless you state your real names. You should be held accountable for your polluting comments just as I will be held accountable if the Samoa mill does not meet the regulations set by EPA and the State Water Board.

The Pulp Mill is a huge piece of the Harbor’s future. Meetings with Freshwater Pulp representatives revealed that product would not be leaving the local dock until October at the earliest. And this is contingent with Freshwater Pulp coming to an agreement/permit with the North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board regulatory agency. The rescheduled public hearing to consider termination of the Evergreen Pulp/Freshwater Pulp NPDES permit, barring anything unforeseen, will occur on April 23 in Fortuna.

If either the Harbor District or the Pulp Mill do not continue operations, both will die. They are now pretty much bound together for survival.
Posted by samoasoftball at 3/04/2009

You are wrong again. I encourage you to blog, email, call or visit Carol Rische of the HBMWD or John Winzler who advises Carol and their Board. Perhaps they can help you understand the issue. I won’t take the time because you don’t believe a word I tell you.

In the meantime Bill, read the Times Standard and explain to the citizens of Humboldt County how “YOU” are working hard to make their increased water rates a permanent increase. This is your moment Bill. Take a bow.

Bolithio

August 2, 2010 at 9:41 am

This may be an ignorant question, but why cant the mill draft water from the bay?

We were told months ago that our water rates would be going up because the mill was closing, now we are being told right here on this thread by your supporters that the mill should not have to pay it’s fair share of system maintenance, thus water rates will stay high even if the mill reopens.

There is a disconnect for sure but it’s not with me. People around here aren’t that stupid.

When is the last time that the Samoa Mill ocean outfall was inspected? We had a major 6.5 earthquake right in the zone in January how do we even know that the outfall is intact?

Maybe it has been inspected lately, please inform us.

“The coastal marine environment is fraught with risk for any exposed or minimally-buried seabed structure such as an outfall. Thus, conduits of this type should be inspected on a regular basis, whether by divers, remotely operated vehicles, or manned submersibles. Small deficiencies may be handled upon detection by the same person or system. Major problems will require a competent marine contractor and an elapse of time. The paper lists a number of outfall malfunctions of various scales and, in most cases, the remedial measures pursued.”

How will the MLPA process affect the outfall of the mill? Why does the city of Arcata care about the Samoa outfall vs. MLPA?

Arcata requests MLPA not impact wastewater outfall in bay

Written by Allison White, Times-Standard
7/14/10 “The Arcata City Council looked into the proposed Marine Life Protection Act’s impacts on the city on Tuesday… During MLPA discussions, it has been suggested that the North Humboldt Bay area be designated as a marine protected area. That designation would likely have a long-term effect on the city’s wastewater treatment plant, as the plant’s outfall lies in the bay, according to city staff. If the designation were granted, it would have to be extended to the Pacific Ocean at great cost to the city.

According to the letter approved by the council, the city “operates a worldrenowned marsh and wetland wastewater treatment plant recognized for its sustainable design and beneficial input to Humboldt Bay.” The letter requests removing the North Humboldt Bay and the south Samoa area from being considered a marine protected area. The council was satisfied with the contents of the letter, but Councilman Shane Brinton requested they add into the text that as a concept, the council supports the MLPA, just not those two potential designations. “

Up until last month, HBMWD had a contract with Evergreen Pulp for industrial water supply in the amount of 15 million gallons/day (MGD). Via this contract, Evergreen paid 45% of HBMWD’s operating, maintenance and overhead costs associated with our community-based regional water system. This resulted in annual revenue contributions of between $1,000,000 and $1,500,000. Given the sale of the mill to Freshwater Pulp Company (previously Samoa Acquisition), and the fact that they are not in a position to resume operations, HBM\VD agreed to a 90-day transition period in which we are providing a minimum volume of water which allows them to maintain the ocean outfall line, at our bare minimum short-term operating costs.

Carol Rische verified to me a few minutes ago that Freshwater is not receiving any water now and for the last several months. One must ask how then is the outfall being kept open? Perhaps it is used also by the Fairhaven Power Plant?

If so, it is not only mill effluent that must be considered, but power plant effluent that is going into the ocean.

Read today’s Time Standard and take your curtain call. Let the rate payers know this is the outcome “Highboldtage” opined for.

The water rate increase would not be necessary if Freshwater reopens and contributes $1.3 million per year. It is pointless to debate this issue with you because you don’t understand the issue or the politics.

I understand the politics all too well. That’s why I call you a genuis, Bob, and I am sincere.

Those of us who oppose the mill (there are obviously a few thousand at least in Eureka) will continue to oppose it.

The Samoa Mill has been every bit as destructive to Humboldt as any pulp mill has been in Indonesia.

It is time to tear it down.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm

Yes, by all means, let’s tear down one of the least-polluting pulp mills in the world, since Bill states, without evidence, that its is every bit as destructive to Humboldt as any pulp mill has been in Indonesia. Yeah, riiiiiiight.

Interesting that not ONE of our prominent environmental groups in Humboldt has come out in opposition to the re-opening the Samoa pulp mill. Not NEC, not EPIC, not Baykeeper, not Humboldt Bay Stewards, not Surfrider, not CATs, not the Center for Biological Diversity, not the Sierra Club, not the Green Party, NONE of them. But I guess Bill “Highbodtage” knows better than all these well-informed environmentalist. Not.

I don’t claim to know “better” than people who have worked in the environmental movement their whole lives.

I merely state that I am opposed to the mill restart on environmental and economic grounds and I have stated my reasons and supplied evidence.

The other side has produced little or no evidence to support their claims. The “scientific” studies cited over and over again by Simpson I have proven here to be completely irrelevant. Of course Mr. Simpson knows this to be true. Draw your own conclusions.

EPIC, Baykeeper et al have their reasons for doing or not doing certain things, and often the reasons are political as opposed to purely environmental. Not my problem. I am in general supportive of EPIC and Baykeeper so I won’t get too frantic if they don’t agree with me on everything.

I feel sorry for you because I actually think you believe the pulp fiction you write. Unlike you Bill, I have actually seen pulp mills in South America and Asia, and I know the facts. FYI, Pete Nichols of Humboldt Baykeepers traveled to China. Pete would disagree with your comparison of the Samoa mill to an Indonesia mill.

Would you take a million dollars and walk away, gifting the mill to the union? What do you think of that idea? If you like it we can start working on it.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

the reasonable anonymous

August 2, 2010 at 12:30 pm

Yes, because Bill wants to “gift” the mill to the union, then oppose letting them open it. Quite a “gift.”

the reasonable anonymous

August 2, 2010 at 12:32 pm

Bob,

While I agree with your overall point (Indonesian and other third-world pulp mills produce much more pollution than the Samoa plant would) there is a bit of a non-sequitur in your last post. Namely, Indonesia is not in China.

Actually RA you are completely wrong as I noted last night. If the union (or the government) owned the mill then my economic objections would be met. If we simply build the secondary wastewater plant first then my environmental concerns would be met. (In addition to creating lots of jobs NOW)

Its simple. Maybe go back and read last nights debate. Refresh your memory.

Pretty big “IF.” Where’s the union going to get the money for that? Out of the same pot of magical non-existent money that the $1 million would come from?

Then there’s the fact that your one post says that simply transferring the ownership to the union or the government would satisfy your economic objections, yet just three minutes later you post that “Mills don’t bring prosperity. They bring boom and bust cycles of despair, social strife and environmental degradation.”

Pulp mills are hideous polluters and wasters of natural resources. Mr. Simpson himself says that there will never be another one built on the West Coast and there are good reasons why he is right about that.

But as I said last night, if we make the social decision to socialize these jobs and socialize this industry I can live with it if either the union or the government owns the mill, not some capitalist or speculator. If it is the government then the government can gift it back to the people in a year or so by distributing shares to the people of Humboldt. If it is the union that owns it, well good luck to them. I hope it works out.

As far as building a waste water plant, well the county of Humboldt can easily afford $25,000,000 to build the plant even if they have to float a bond to do it. Create a business to run the wastewater plant, capitalize it with county money, run it as a for profit private business (yes Freshwater Tissue will have to pay for their services) and then when it is up and running distribute the ownership to the people of Humboldt County. The government will then be out of the water treatment business on the Samoa Peninsula. Private – public balance restored.

Government can create jobs. I just showed you how.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Jack. N.Oftenoff

August 2, 2010 at 1:10 pm

Hi dude,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Your make me ill, your never ending cycle of in-breab thinking. Over and over . You are a troll in the best meaning of the word .
Good god it a simple start up ,of a simple factory.
Simple ,,it aint a big arse polluter,,they see it . Most understand that .,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
See you at the end of the line deek weeds,,,
.

I would not sell the pulp mill for $1 million. If you read our business plan you will find our current valuation of the pulp mill is $20 million. Obviously, if the mill doesn’t run it will be worth far less than that. But still more than $1 million.

A closed pulp mill of less quality than ours recently sold in McKenzie B.C. for $20 million. An operating pulp mill located in Halsey, Oregon, that is smaller than the Samoa mill, just sold for $60 million. Once again Bill, this is a perfect indicator of how out of touch with reality you really are.

To further clarify my earlier comment about Indonesia, I witnessed worse pollution in Indonesia than I did in China. I suggest you look up Asia Pulp & Paper who are headquartered in Jakarta to find out for yourselves. Or you can go to pulpmillwatch.org FYI, AP&P are the new owner of both the Halsey, OR and McKenzie British Columbia mills. AP&P formed a new Hong Kong based company called Denson to acquire the Halsey mill because they owe EXIM Bank in Washington, D.C. for a past debt and they were concerned the asset would be seized if it were in their name.

Read my last email. $20 million is the current pulp mill value. I made an offer to the Pulp Union, and other Unions, to buy in. Due to issues pertaining to the Taft-Hartley Act, it appears they are prohibited from investing their pension funds. I think the majority of the Union prefers I stay involved.

Best you focus on what you know best and leave the pulp mill to those of us who understand the issues and actually want the Samoa mill to restart. You have already stated your views of the mill, so lets not pretend Bill cares when everyone knows he doesn’t.

the reasonable anonymous

August 2, 2010 at 4:16 pm

Bill “Highboldtage” says:

“I think at least some people take me seriously. You do, obviously.”

I only take you (somewhat) seriously as a propagandist/rumourmonger with way lots of entitlement-funded time on your hands and an obvious inability or unwillingness to admit when you have been shown, time and again, to be dead wrong.

And even in that capacity I’m taking you less and less seriously all the time. After all the accusations and gross overgeneralizations you’ve made, your weird obsession with tangential and irrelevant issues like BearingGate, your bizarre pie-in-the-sky plans for union or govenment takeover of the mill, your incredible claim that Humboldt County has plenty of money to buy the plant and build a wastewater treatment plant before operating the mill, and your decision to remaim willfully ignorant by refusing to meet with Mr. Simpson and learn more about the plant and his plans for it…well you really have hardly a shred of credibility left.

Accordingly, I will, for the most part, leave you to operate your ethics-free Rumour Mill and Pulp Fiction Publishinghouse as you see fit. Have fun…

Anonymous

August 2, 2010 at 4:20 pm

Bob, this blog is not full of “listeners” as much as those who just want to gab on about their own opinion, even if it isn’t based on facts. You are nice to try though. It is pretty obvious who knows what about the pulp industry and the politics around it. Of course you are biased, but at least you know what you are talking about.

Thank you for the compliment. I appreciate your acknowledgement of my transparency.

Plaintruth

August 2, 2010 at 7:02 pm

Hiblahtage’
Do you feel the grip on your argument slipping away. Because everyone else does. With a LOL,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ex-pulper

oldest fart

August 2, 2010 at 7:03 pm

Ditto…we appreciate your involvement with this blog..this has taken up alot of your precious time… you will be rewarded for the effort. Good luck with your venture. Alot of the blog readers are now ” better informed”.

oldest fart

August 2, 2010 at 7:07 pm

The previous comment was meant for Bob Simpson.

tim

August 2, 2010 at 7:55 pm

R A Said I can’t play in your game, OK then will you just answer my questions-posts 8:44 and 8:51. Highboltage answered my question about the carcinogen Hexavalent Chromium. I have heard that the mill emits all of these other pollutants that I previously listed. I am just seeking information.

The easiest way to answer your question is to post every chemical the Samoa mill buys and consumes on our website. That will be done tomorrow. The list indicates our daily useage (gallons,lbs. and tons) and quantity. It also shows you how the chemical is stored and what stage of our process it is used. The limits indicated assume we are producing bleached pulp. When the mill produces unbleached pulp our chemical consumption drops dramatically as you will read.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

August 2, 2010 at 9:08 pm

MSDS – Material Safety Data Sheet?

JL

Not A Native

August 2, 2010 at 9:09 pm

Classic case of shooting the messenger Bill. Everyone is welcome to an opinion but the opinion that matters here is the people who Simpson is trying to stick with the debt to finance beating West Eureka and the nearby ocean to a pulp. Even on its face the CDO requires Simpson to show the money within 30 days. He’s already extended that to 120 days and the extensions will contine. He can’t show the money because the Government refused to accept the risk of giving a guarantee. Simpson’s says the guarantee is meaningless because he still has to pay back the loan, thats pure double talk. Lenders insist on a guarantee because any sane person with money realizes its almost a certainty that Simpson won’t be able to pay back a loan because the plant won’t make the numbers to justify refinancing it. He’ll default and the Government would end up paying the tab. Thats where one subsidy comes in. A sane venture capitalist that was interestedin betting on pulp making might loan some money but would want management control and equity which Simpson can’t an won’t give. That leaves only existing papermakers and most of them are closing plants, not refurbishing ones at great cost.

The water board also gave Simpson 3 years to operate a polluting plant in a manner that Evergreen was fined $400,000 for doing. Not charging a fine is a subsidy. But it won’t matter because Simpson’s next trick will be to back completely out the plan he pitched to the water board to build the secondary treatment. At best, the plant will operate just like Simpson used to operate it, and probably go bankrupt again just like it did before (when Simpson was running it). Same ole same ole.

More likely, it’ll get slowly liquidated to pay off Nolan and let Simpson strut around running his mouth off like an urban cowboy before beating it out of town. You know what the difference between a country cowboy and an urban cowboy is? A country cowboy has the bullshit on the outside of his boots.

"HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"

August 2, 2010 at 9:43 pm

I wonder if Developers can attain a Cease and Desist Order for their devlopment projects by not meeting drainage plan requirements, intentional or not? Screw the riparian zones, ….. NOT!

I wonder if homeowners can get a Cease and Desist Order for dumping toxins into the public facility – NOT!

I wonder if ANY process will make exceptions for me compared to another taxpayer or citizen – YUP! I know that the county tax assessor, clerk, supes and more are willing to endorse this unequal protection, so, what about county planning, building, environmental health, public works, etc… Hey, Public Works may except too because they except many non-contractor businesses from attaining and paying for encroachment permits within developed rights-of-ways.

It is all about the process – get it yet, folks?

In a nutshell, so many processes are rigged and fixed for political reasons and advantages. Sad America, sad!

Abstract
OBJECTIVES: A study was conducted to investigate cancer risks in a cohort of pulp and paper workers. METHODS: All male workers with > or =1 years of employment in 14 pulp and paper mills in 1950-1992 were studied. Standardized incidence ratios (SIR) were used to compare the cancer incidence of the cohort with that of the Canadian male population. Record linkage with the National Cancer Registry was performed using the generalized iterative record linkage method. RESULTS: Altogether 1756 cancer cases were observed in the entire cohort. For > or =15 years of work, the entire cohort had significantly increased SIR values for pleural and prostate cancer and skin melanoma; there was also a significantly increased risk for skin melanoma among workers in the kraft process only, rectal cancer among workers in the sulfite process only, and stomach and prostate cancer and all leukemias combined among workers in both the kraft and sulfite processes. A separate analysis comparing workers in pulping and papermaking with those in the pulping process only did not reveal any difference in cancer risk and hence did not modify the results. The SIR values for skin melanoma were not significantly increased in a comparison using the British Columbia male population. Nine of 10 pleural cancers were mesotheliomas, which likely reflect past asbestos exposure. CONCLUSIONS: The results suggest that long-term work in the pulp and paper industry is associated with excess risks of prostate and stomach cancers and all leukemias for work in both kraft and sulfite processes and of rectal cancer for work in the sulfite process only.

Plaintruth

August 3, 2010 at 12:57 pm

Me not play with trolls,,,,,,,,,

God bless the mill !

the reasonable anonymous

August 3, 2010 at 1:17 pm

(1) The study looked at people who worked in pulp mills from 1950 – 1992. How many of those were in dioxin-free mills like the Samoa mill is now? Probably zero. Not really applicable to our current mill workers or the Samoa plant.

(2) Notice you started your boldface right AFTER the statement that “nine out of ten pleural cancers were mesotheliomas, which likely reflect past asbestos exposure.” In other words, also not applicable to our current mill workers or the Samoa plant.

I see that Bill “Highbodltage” is still operating the Rumour Mill, and still practicing the So-Crap-Stick method, where he throws as much crap at the mill as he can dredge up online, in the hopes that something, anything, will stick…and without regard to whether the stuff he posts has ANY real applicability to the Samoa mill. Thus his credibility remains near-zero.

How many children in Eureka Schools have cysts removed each year- blame Bill, the communist traitor for poor air quality.
May God bring shame on his family tree for crimes against humanity.
May those who poison their neighbors for profit have a place in Hell for their crimes.

“In Arcata, half the workers at the Evergreen Pulp Mill have yet to find work since the plant’s Chinese owners closed the facility. Simpson bought it in February with the idea of turning it into the first chlorine-free, dioxin-free toilet paper mill in North America.

He says it was the kind of shovel-ready project the government said it was seeking. He had a business plan and support and was ready to begin, as soon as he found a $400-million loan.

Rep. Mike Thompson (D-St. Helena) wrote a letter to the Energy Department on behalf of the company, Freshwater Tissue Co. Civic and environmental leaders, including Gregg Gold, the chairman of the North Group of the Sierra Club’s Redwood Chapter, and Art Harwood, the executive director of the Redwood Forest Foundation, stumped for the project as well.

But Simpson failed to submit the nonrefundable $50,000 fee required to apply for a stimulus loan. He said it was because he couldn’t get anyone at the Energy Department to clarify whether his project would qualify since it didn’t fit neatly into established categories such as wind power or solar energy.”

“True, Simpson said, he has sold off some old bearings and some scrap that was junking up the mill. But he has not given up. He continues to spend $100,000 a month to maintain the mill. And since February, Freshwater’s been seeking to stick a straw into that big pool of federal stimulus billions that’s being squirted here and there for others to enjoy. But they’re getting nowhere. So Simpson’s pumping up the PR volume by hiring an old friend and a nationally connected public relations expert from Washington, Dale Didion of The Didion Group.

Didion once served as a U.S. Treasury diplomat in Saudi Arabia, and worked on budget and policy in the executive Office of the President. He’s worked for major PR firms, but now has his own, smaller company. But Didion’s clients impress: The Nature Conservancy, Monsanto, AT&T, Warner Brothers, U.C. Santa Cruz, Loyola University and more. Most pertinent to this tale, he has long worked with Louisiana-Pacific — the company that Simpson worked for in the 1990s, and where the two men met.”

“Didion also did work for Timbron, a company Simpson founded, but no longer is with, that recycles foam packaging from computers. Didion’s also on the Save the Redwoods League’s Board of Councillors and, said Simpson, he helped National Geographic with its recent redwood media extravaganza. ”

“Now Didion’s helping Simpson throw a big rally out at the pulp mill next Thursday, Oct. 22, at noon. They’re inviting state and federal representatives and a slew of environmental bigshots.

“We think the Sierra Club will be there, and we’re expecting Greenpeace and Baykeeper,” he said. “We’re asking Carl Pope [president of the Sierra Club] to come. We’ll have union leaders. And we might get Amy Goodman. We believe we’ll have satellite coverage. We’re attempting to get the New York Times here.” ”

“Simpson thinks that if he can get his message out to the people in power, they will leap to his aid in obtaining some of that federal stimulus backing. What they want is to get a federal loan guarantee, which would allow them to get a loan from a major lending institution. If the tissue paper venture failed, the federal government would repay what was left of the loan. There also might be some grants available from the feds. “

I’m not too far off calling scum like this traitors- they will sell out their own people to the chinese for some silver coins.
Only as scumbag would kill children by forged records of emissions- only a leech with something to hide would need to stoop to such levels to as to need to look up at insects that crawl in the dirt.
Once a liar, always a liar- once a traitor, always a traitor-

run the trash down to the dump and move on- the bay is a mess and these clowns will kill off what is left to profit their chinese masters.

I pray God brings wrath on scum like this and makes them pay for generations in shame and wandering in the wilderness without a home. Trash is what trash does….

CheeseDick

August 3, 2010 at 4:18 pm

To all 80,000 residents of Humboldt:
Cough up 250 bucks and we can buy the damn mill and turn it into a frickin roller coaster.

Plaintruth

August 3, 2010 at 8:49 pm

See the mill.
See the mill run.
Run mill run.

Not A Native

August 3, 2010 at 9:48 pm

Bill, you may have missed the later news item. That “party” at the mill was cancelled with no reason given. It wasn’t rescheduled. You’re not the first invitee to decline an “opportunity” to a dog and pony show at the mill. Everyone who does due diligence on Simpson’s qualifications and track record avoids being linked with him in public. Sure, every elected official wants Simpson’s schemes to get a fair “due process” hearing. But none will personally endorse him and risk having their reputation be crushed to a pulp.

starburst

August 4, 2010 at 8:31 am

I heard one former long time pulp mill employee who is skeptical of Simpson say that Simpson is not planning to run the mill – long term he is planning to re-sell the water. The water is the real valuable thing that will be running through the plant.

That would explain the asset stripping and the rush to sign a long term water deal.

Maybe that is far fetched but maybe some of you can opine on it.

Plaintruth

August 4, 2010 at 9:54 am

God lord you fricken morons,,,,,,,,

Plaintruth

August 4, 2010 at 10:04 am

Freshwater Tissue has received Project Support from environmental advocacy groups, forest conservation companies, educators, the Humboldt County Board of Supervisors, foresters and industry experts. We hope you will take the time to listen to the videos provided and to read the support letters we have received to date.

The Responsible Solution
The impacts of pollution have never been more apparent and sickening, than the images televised from Beijing, China during the 2008 Summer Olympic Games. At present, China is willing to overlook pollution to expand its economy. The cost of their decision is unclear.

China is not the only developing country experiencing horrific pollution problems. Virtually every developing country selling products to the United States and other industrialized nations is suffering from environmental devastation. This includes Brazil, Chile, Indonesia, Mexico, Peru, Russia, and Vietnam. The common thread between these countries is cheap labor, unconstrained pollution, and U.S. consumer demand.

For the past three decades, the U.S. pulp and paper industry has struggled financially to comply with forestry regulations, conform to clean air and water quality standards, and absorb rising labor and health care costs. Because pulp and paper products are produced and traded globally, these costs cannot be passed through to the American consumer. In response, U.S. companies are closing operations, and relying on pulp producers in developing countries where inexpensive plantation timber is abundant, cheap labor is readily available, and pollution goes unchecked.

The new business model for U.S. tissue producers is to dispose of U.S. pulp mill assets, and serve as a converter, brander, and marketer of finished products. These converting companies install tissue converting plants around the world. They buy parent rolls of tissue paper from the least expensive supplier for reprocessing and packaging into finished products, such as tissue and toweling. They protect their markets through branding and advertising.

This new model allows U.S. pulp and tissue companies to sell or close their pulp mills, and effectively export jobs and industrial pollution to developing countries. From a purely economic position, this may improve financial results. From an environmental and social perspective, it is irresponsible.

During a recent meeting with Congressman Mike Thompson (D-CA), an executive of the Association of Western Pulp & Paper Workers (AWPPW) cited a situation in Bellingham, Washington, where a paper plant closed, and the employees were informed the mill could no longer compete in the global market. The equipment was sold, and put back into production in China. Everything was exported except the pollution controls!

FPC believes the responsible solution is to preserve U.S. regional markets for forest residuals, maintain a U.S. industrial base, minimize industrial pollution, provide U.S. family wage jobs, and impose global standards for pollution emissions.

I give creds to Richard Marks for trying to get union ownership of the mill, but as you can see documented below, the workers were very much against it. What do they know? That the mill can’t run at a profit without subsidy?

MY WORD-Richard Marks

“Employee Ownership can save Pulp Mill”

“We workers want to buy out our mill and operate it successfully. We can do this successfully through a mechanism called an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP). We need time to develop a feasibility study and we need community support. We need our local legislators to sponsor legislation giving chlorine free pulp and paper products preferential status in state purchasing to assure a steady local market for our pulp. We need the Headwaters Funds and our economic development leaders to get behind and ESOP feasibility study and local ownership of the mill.”

” I believe that an ESOP plan is the best way for direct worker involvement and investment in the future economic viability of this industry. We have a number of excellent models to work from, including the recent ESOP implemented by the Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers (AWPPW) Blue Heron Paper in Oregon, and the very successful union ESOP at Blue Ridge Paper in North Carolina. We have the resources, the people and the desire to succeed.”

” I did pursue it. 4 years ago. You were the CEO at the time. I was almost lynched by my fellow workers at the time for bringing it up. It is most likely too late for the workers to be able to pull off an ESOP.”

You gotta pinch yourself when pro-pulp mill folks lecture you about the environment, knowing full well they are unable to operate the mill within the law.

Not A Native

August 4, 2010 at 1:46 pm

Hey, look under the hood and actually read those “support” letters. They say, yeah we support the mill if it is in compliance with the pollution regulations. The elected officals give just pro-forma support. In particular, Chesbro’s letter is no more than typical support for a constituant. None express support for a subsidy period of operation with excess pollution.

Not only that, but if Bonnie Neely, Rob Arkley, J. Warren Hockaday and Pete Nichols are for reals all on the same page, then the Mayan Calendar is off by two years.

The Apocalypse is now. All the portents are nigh.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Plaintruth

August 4, 2010 at 7:02 pm

The mill will run Brown stock only,,,
Simpley,,,Brown stock is and always has been able to run in compliance,,,,, Argument over ,,,,,,,

Not A Native

August 4, 2010 at 8:01 pm

Sorry, but plaintruth is pure lies. There were continual violations of discharge standards by the pulp plant over the years. The State Water Board’s compliance lettter to the regional board and discharge permit detailed the history of the plant’s ongoing non-compliance with their permit. And the same goes for air emissions too. As a practical matter the plant has $400,000 in unpaid faines for failing to comply with the discharge permit. But the money isn’t the main issue, excessive pollution was discharged causing more harm than is legally permitted, regardless of fines.

Plaintruth

August 4, 2010 at 8:09 pm

From the bleach stock,Sure.
Pure lies ?
Dip shiiit dont know of what you speak,
What I said stands.

cheesedick

August 4, 2010 at 8:23 pm

Starburst: great concept. Already been killed bt eco-dick belknap

Not A Native

August 4, 2010 at 8:54 pm

You can stand on what you said, pt, but its just not true. So stop your silly standing and crawl back under the stupid rock where you’re from.

Bill: Thanks for the props, but our union and other local labor ranks are fully backing Bob Simpson’s attempt as the best realistic option to re-start the Pulp Mill. I do believe Mr. Simpson’s vision to have a tissue converting operation on site will enhance the chance of taking our local raw resources (wood chips) and converting a “real” value added product. (Toilet paper)

I appreciate the transparency Bob has shown on this blog thread. What other prospective pulp mill leader would or has even has attempted this?

(Disclaimer: I am on the executive board of the Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers Local 49 and might be a prospective employee of the pulp mill and I also serve the public on the Harbor Commission. That is why I have limited my comments.)

I mistakenly took you as a person who seeks the truth. Instead, you harbor resentment for a pulp mill that you know very little about; you spread pulp fiction to ignite the uninformed; and you announce the worlds end after hearing environmental advocacy groups don’t share your views. In spite of your short comings, I welcome your help should you change your opinion of the Samoa mill.

In the spirit of transparency I have answered each of your questions openly and honestly. I tolerated your argument about our bearing inventory. I made you aware our water contract with HBMWD was for $1.3 million per year. I laughed at your suggestion we would sell the pulp mill for $1 million; And when Tim asked me about the chemicals the pulp mill consumed I posted each pulping chemical on our website.

After coming up scoreless in our debate, you abandoned your Socrates charachter and showed your frustration by turning to your true personality that defines you. You are a divider of a community and will turn on anyone who disagrees with your view or abandons your view. Perhaps you need to open your heart and soul and become part of the solution to stitch this community back together. Yes Bill, it is possible to have ecology and economy. They are compatible just as you and I can be. The Samoa mill isn’t about you or me. It is about something much bigger….it’s about doing the right thing in the best interest of the environment and the economy. The winner is the community.

Don’t be a spoiler Bill. Join me in advocating for solutions that can change the world. You are a smart guy. But you are on the wrong side of this argument and there is no wisdom to going down with the ship.

There are two ways to advocate for a cleaner environment. One way is to use existing laws to bring polluters into compliance. The second way, which is the path I have chosen, is to build a model that can provide for ecology and economy. You see Bill, we are both advocates. We have just chosen different paths. I know you are a good man and I welcome your help.

Since you advocated for an ESOP on several occasions, can you tell us why your union members were opposed to buying and owning the mill?

And Richard, none of this is personal to you or your fellow workers. I think more should be done for displaced workers who have spent 10+ years in one industry that is now obsolete. Expecting people who have worked all of their lives in a manufacturing context to become service workers is unreasonable and abusive.

Why don’t you join with me in advocating for new, sustainable, and clean manufacturing jobs in the industrial zone of Eureka where such jobs are desperately needed?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

Farmer

August 5, 2010 at 8:25 am

As long as the pulp mill relies on clear-cut oak logs it is not environmentally sound.

The first is of course, your credibility. There is a big difference between the 80% sold that Driscoll reported and the 1% that you claimed in this thread. This discrepancy has not been addressed other than the statement by you that Driscoll must have misquoted you. If Driscoll confirms that he misquoted you then the question will be decided. Who knows, he is a professional reporter, perhaps he recorded the interview.

The second reason the bearings (and the sale of other equipment) is important is that the Samoa Mill is in the Eureka Enterprise Zone and Lee and Mann may have purchased equipment using tax credits (up to $20 million). So equipment being sold off right now may have been paid for by the taxpayers.

Do you know if the equipment you are selling was paid for with Enterprise Zone tax credits?

Speaking of credibility, where is yours? How can you suggest to Richard Marks that he joins you in creating green jobs. You appear to me to be a fox in sheep’s clothing. When you called Carol Rische of the HBMWD and didn’t get the answer you were seeking, you got agressive with Carol and she had to put you in your place. Rather than talk about your losses and licking your wounds, you make up another story about tax payers financing Evergreen’s puchase of the Samoa mill assets. So let’s clear this mess up before the fiction becomes fact. The Samoa mill assets were sold at auction and Evergreen was the successful bidder. The price was paid in cash and there were no tax credits involved in the transaction.

Bill, did you hear Greenpeace purchased the Samoa mill from me for $50 million? Start that rumor. It has about as much validity as your other stories.

Bill, you are wasting my time. When you sincerety I will respond to you. Until then, have a peaceful day Socrates!

When Lee & Mann shipped tens of $ millions of dollars of pulp to Asia and then skipped out on their suppliers, their workers, their environmental fines and the community, owing multiple millions $, that was THEFT. Lee & Mann is a huge functioning profitable company still to this day, with BRAND NEW PULP MACHINES in their Asian plants.

The taxpayers have some claim on the equipment at the mill, if any of the equipment was purchased with Enterprise Zone Tax Credits. Who is representing the taxpayers? The District Attorney? The State Attorney General? Why don’t THE TAXPAYERS HAVE A LIEN ON THE MILL?

The first paragraph of your 8:52 AM blog was nearly right. Unfortunately, the had very smart attorneys who structured the ownership of Evergreen in a manner that protects them from lawsuits.

Taxpayers have no claims because tax payer dollars were not involved. More importantly, when we purchased the Samoa mill assets we followed the California Bulk Sales Statute and went beyond our requirement to notice creditors. All creditors were noticed and given time to make their claims to the Title Company. Once the transaction was completed by the Title Company, the California Statute protects all buyers, in this case Freshwater, from all future claims made by any creditor.

Bill, did Socrates throw random thoughts in the air and hope to trip someone up. Wow, that might actually work if everyone blogging is brain dead.

I partially agree with you. I don’t find it easier to breath but the air doesn’t have the same odor it had when the mill previously operated. While I can’t make all of the odor disappear, I can eliminate a portion of it immediately and I can work to eliminate the remaining odors over time.

The pollution from automobiles, fireplaces and restaurants is far worse than the Samoa mills BOD. Sorry to correct you, but we don’t send Alchohol to the ocean, we send organic wood sugar known as unrefined methanol. If it were in your car you would refer to it as biofuel. I refer to it as fish food.

You have never subsidized the pulp mill.

Do you drive a car?
Do you burn firewood?
Do you flush your toilet?
Do you use deoderant?
Do you have a garbage disposal?
Do you eat in restaurants?
Do you buy groceries shipped in from far away places?
Do you fly in airplanes?
We know your computer is turned on. Therefore, you are using electricity and contributing to global pollution.

Practice what you preach my friend. Please advise me when you invest your own money in a business you believe to be green. Who knows, I might need a job and come to work for you.

Does that mean we can be friends?
Would you like to help me reduce or eliminate pollution while improving our local economy?
Would you like to be part of the solution?
Perhaps you and I can show everyone how two advocates on different paths can unite to blaze one single trail and reduce the footprint we leave on earth. My hand is out to you Bill. Don’t leave me hanging.

Sure. But generally speaking, my friends are open-minded people who don’t get married to an idea before they fully research every issue. I don’t believe you can make that claim yet.

What I have never understood why people complain about one source of pollution but they ignore their own. Automobiles are a perfect example. I guest if it is a convenient pollution it doesn’t count!

Another issue I have is why some people are so quick to accept EPA’s definition of a pollution source. I guess its the same definition the government used to make alcohol legal and marijuana illegal.

I admire your passion my new friend. I just wish you would take a neutral position. If so, I think I can make a believer out of you and our local community will be better for it. Then we can both have a peaceful day!

Paper itself is not obsolete, like parchment for example. But there are lots of things to make paper out of besides hardwood chips.

It is the Samoa Mill that is obsolete. Most pulp making machines in Asia and Europe have been upgraded to new pulp machines that are much faster than the outdated models that are still in many North American mills, Samoa is not the only obsolete mill in North America.

Add to that the fact that just in toilet tissue alone,Americans consume 50% more tissue than Japanese or Western Europeans. We are very wasteful and do not nearly need to consume as much pulp as we do. The environmentally sound thing to do is to cut down on pulp use, not produce more.

And then there is the fact that every pulp plant in the world of any consequence is subsidized in one form or another. It is the elephant in the room that very few here will acknowledge but it is true.

It is obsolete industries that need subsidies, or brand new innovative industries that need subsidies, but profitable mature industries never should need them.

When Lee & Mann was busy stealing tens of millions from the community they were also stealing the future of you pulp workers because they used the millions they stole to buy and install new pulp machines in their Asian mills that are twice as fast as the obsolete machines at Samoa.

I remind you that these thieves were named Eureka’s “Company of the Year” by our tax supported genuises at the Eureka Chamber of Commerce. LOL.

Tsang said it was simply a restructuring by Lee and Man, with the intention of putting Evergreen on better financial ground to continue operating as planned in a projected three to six months.”

“The total purchase price was listed as $200 million Hong Kong currency, which translates to about $25.7 million in U.S. dollars.
Tsang called the sale a necessary internal restructuring to an “associated company” of Lee and Man, one that will bolster Evergreen’s plans to continue operating at full capacity in the near future.”

“Company Vice President and spokesman Rex Bohn attributed the closure at the time to the current global financial pulp market, which is overall facing increased inventory and weak demand.”

“Its efforts to reduce waste and energy consumption, as well as being “good neighbors and members of the community,” as Eureka Chamber of Commerce director J Warren Hockaday described it, were reasons the mill was chosen by the chamber as last year’s Business of the Year.”

Bill, there is a flaw in your obsolete argument. Ill acknowledge your points first. The pulp industry has largely been out-sourced to foreign markets. These places are more effective in their pulping in that they can run faster and more efficiently – primarily due to subsidies and no environmental controls. American culture is wasteful.

I think I can agree on all those points.

Our pulp mill under the proposed plan will produce a environmentally superior product. Not only bleach free, but all across the board pollution controls that are way higher than any other mill on foreign soils. Furthermore the potential for positive forestry as result of a running pulp mill in this county is paramount. Not to mention that the resource (wood fiber) will come from the most regulated timber industry in the world. That and the prospect for jobs in the mill, in the woods, and in the shipping is more than just a economic blip.

Lastly, since we are speaking of efficiency, the amount of energy and resources that have gone into the mill over the past decades, regardless of questions surrounding previous eras of ownership and environmental standards can not be ignored. The mill is not like a damn on the Klamath. Removing it does not have any positive effect on anything. It requires resources and energy to remove it, and really think about that. Thats a huge order.

SO, weigh that with your green life style. Does it make sense to offset our pollution elsewhere? Is it our right as Americans to continue to put pressure of the world to produce our waste? Or, is it better to support a positive change in an industry that could be better here? Remember that our consumption is cultural. The pulp mill is not enticing Americans to use too much and as such removing it does not address that problem. If pulp based products need to be more expensive to reflect a need for increased environmental issues, we should pay for that – not the poor and disenfranchised people of other nations.

You are one of the few here who are honest about subsidies and I think you realize that subsidies will be required here especially in light of the antiquated equipment at the Samoa Mill?

I won’t dispute your contention that an operating pulp mill will make the local forest products industry more profitable (efficient), that is obvious but the question is is it worth the cost of the subsidies plus the environmental degradation? I think not.

If we simply reduce our demand for pulp, then there will be less pulp pollution worldwide, not only here.

I look at the pulp mill like a car. When you buy it brand new everything works and it is as fast and dependable as any car on the market. You have some pride in ownership so you spend money every year to keep all its parts in good repair and you might even through in a new engine or trans once in while.

But then one day the day comes when you cross the tipping point where the car starts to cost more to maintain than it would cost to buy a new one. Sure the old car still has value, but only to some one who will have a smaller capital investment in it. So you sell it. The car still runs fine but even as a used car it is too expensive to maintain. So it is simply run it until it has no value anymore, thus saving the cost of repairs and upgrades. That is what Lee & Mann did, no doubt taking Enterprise Zone tax credits from the State of California as they did so.

Where is Jerry Brown when you need him to investigate the theft of tens of $ millions , anyway? Oh yeah he’s running for office, I forgot.

You were wrong when you stated our water cost was $80,000 per month, you are also wrong about the enterprize zone tax credits. Again, don’t take my word for it. Call the County and they will verify this for you.

Believe me pal, there is no financial model that will suggest you are better off spending $1 billion or more to build a new pulp mill in favor of operating the Samoa mill. You need to go back to school before debating me on this issue.

Bolithio

August 5, 2010 at 1:25 pm

but the question is is it worth the cost of the subsidies plus the environmental degradation?

Did you read my last post? Thats the point man! What environmental degradation are you talking about? The operation of one of the cleanest mills there is – feed by the most regulated forest industry in the world?

Or are you talking about the environmental degradation from the foreign pulp industry with no regulation, no pollution controls, and no logging regulations? Not to mention labor and human rights.

We as Americans are creating the demand – so the choice is yours. Accept a clean running mill and regulated timber, or support third world exploitation.

To me, the subsidy part is not that big of a deal either way. Like by not subsidizing something is somehow going to make a more efficient government. Ya right! lol

Gee Simpson, by your logic the most recently built mills are all huge financial losses with those billions invested. If the Samoa mill is such a money maker there should be hordes of eager venture capitalists beating down your door for the opportunity to loan you millions of $$$. Where are they? Maybe you should save your brilliant fianancial analyses for patsy investors you haven’t yet found. Fact is, you’ve got zero equity and a white elephant plant. Making ridiculous financial claims and beating up on Bill might get by in a rural backwater, but it won’t pass the smell test of due diligence.

tim

August 5, 2010 at 10:47 pm

I want to know what other carcinogens besides Hexavalent chlorine. Such as Styrene, Napthalene, Xylenes,Acetaldehyde, Benzene and Formaldehyde. Also how much carbon monoxide sulphur dioxide, Nitrogen Oxides, particulants, amonia, methanol and Methyl Ethyl Ketone.

the reasonable anonymous

August 5, 2010 at 11:28 pm

Hi Tim,

Maybe you missed this, but in response to your previous posting of essentially the same question, Bob Simpson promised to post (to the Freshwater Pulp website) a list of all the chemicals used in the pulping process during the last period when the mill was open (under Evergreen’s ownership), how much was used each day, for what purpose, etc. He did post this info, here are the two links…

I hope this is helpful to you…if I’ve misinterpreted your question or the info you’re looking for is not on one of those links, you might try calling Bob Simpson directly and asking for whatever details were not available on any of those links.

49er

August 6, 2010 at 7:03 am

I have just spent hours reviewing this blog and I must say that Mr. Simpson has wasted a great deal of time trying to inform Blog readers , Truth is truth and from what I have read there are many people out there that really do not have any idea of what they are talking about. The operation of a pulp mill is very complex and if you do not know the process you can be mislead easily.
I have work in the Pulp and Paper industry for over 40 years and cannot find one untruth in anything that Mr. Simpson has told you.

How much water did Evergreen Pulp use per month? Bob Simpson says $1.3 million dollars worth of water is more than Evergreen ever paid. Richard Marks says Evergreen used $1.8 million per year. Who is correct, Simpson the entrepreneur or Marks the elected official? If Marks is correct then the mill is getting a half million a year subsidy from the HBMWD, is it not? Time for some more transparency.

“Just for the record, Evergreen pulp pays 1.8 million dollars a year for water used. If that was dispersed to users in the district, it would come out to about a $2 rate hike a month. Not cataclysmic to the public.”

“Assuming the facts that water costs run the pulp mill 1% to 2% of the cost to run the mill, and the water bill runs about $150,000 per month, the costs to run the plant is around 180 million to 360 million a year. That means the pulp mill would have to average 600 ton a day and pulp would have to be selling for $825 a ton to make a profit at the low number. ”

“It is unlikely that in today’s economic climate Simpson will be able to generate the funding necessary to restart the mill on his own.

The raw economic numbers just don’t work right now. Pulp is selling for less than the mill’s historic production costs. If Simpson’s effort stands any chance of success, the entire community is going to have to back him in making the mill both cheaper and more economic to operate.

That means that the workers will have to do two things: (1) Take an equity stake (through a pay concession) in the new company in order to reduce operating costs and signal to investors that they are behind the venture; and (2) Mobilize their local government representatives to support the venture through regulatory relief and TARP type funds.

The local lumber mills which supply chips will have to enter into long term supply agreements at some set price that mitigates the chip price risk. That probably means taking some equity stake in the mill.

The regulators will have to agree to some standards that the mill can live with; in the past there has been an element of regulatory capriciousness that will scare off potential investors unless there is some clear understanding of what is expected going forward.

Paul Gallegos needs to reassure investors that the 12/04 environmental raid that he launched won’t be repeated. Gallegos arriving with 50 armed agents representing 11 agencies sent a signal that Humboldt County is a dangerous place to invest. The risk of another grandstanding raid is sufficient to drive off any possible investors.

The Harbor District/pilots need to lower their costs. Without the mill, they are unemployed. With the mill, they earn a good living. They too need to make concessions to bring back the mill.

Washington is distributing money like drunken sailors. Local politicos need to get some of that money to save the mill. Actions will speak much louder than words.

Evergreen needs to be pushed into being a reasonable seller. In my opinion, they turned out to be less than honest; they need to give something back to the community. In return for not being pursued for an environmental cleanup (at least $25 million), they should sell the mill for $1 and agree to buy several hundred thousand tons of pulp at some above market price (a take-or-pay agreement backed by financial guarantees since their integrity has to be questioned). Lee & Man will want to come back into the U.S. market at some time; if they walk now, their ability to ever operate in the U.S. has to be questioned. If they settle their affairs properly, the option of reentering the U.S. remains open.”

“$150,000 October Water bill comes due and DG Energy buys $80,000 logs they claim not need to help Evergreen pay the bill. CR pulls lien temporarily to allow transaction to pay the bill and pay hourly workers 3 weeks pay. They are still owed thousands of dollars to this day. Jim Lund assures water board that David Tsang is still CEO and they are in contact with China. (Lee and Man)”

My opinion of the local HBMWD has actually gone up since I started researching this pulp mill. It looks to me like they are bending over backwards to balance the needs of local employment with the need to cover the costs of supplying water. They have made a political decision that naturally makes no one completely happy because it is a compromise.

have a peaceful day,
Bill

oldest fart

August 6, 2010 at 9:30 am

Mr.49er
Gosh over 40 years at “GROUND ZERO”…according to Mr Bill and Tim the chemical expert you should have been dead long ago…LOL Also, their are multiple surviors that have worked 40-50 years in the industry…How can that be ????

Ignorant Old Phart

August 6, 2010 at 9:55 am

I’ve heard of people living to a hundred who smoke a pack of cigarettes every day! Jiminy Cricket!

49er

August 6, 2010 at 10:17 am

Bill
You ask if the workers should have some skin in the game.
Well I think that every worker has his or her LIFE in the game.

“Pulp mills are almost always located near large bodies of water due to their former substantial demands. Delignification of chemical pulps released considerable amounts of organic material into the environment, particularly into rivers or lakes. The wastewater effluent can also be a major source of pollution, containing lignins from the trees, high biological oxygen demand (BOD) and dissolved organic carbon (DOC), along with alcohols, chlorates, heavy metals, and chelating agents. Reducing the environmental impact of this effluent is accomplished by closing the loop and recycling the effluent where possible, as well as employing less damaging agents in the pulping and bleaching processes. The process effluents are treated in a biological effluent treatment plant, which guarantees that the effluents are not toxic in the recipient.”

Do you think the workers (through their union perhaps) should show their faith in the mill plan by taking an ownership position in the mill, thus showing to the rest of us that the mill plan is viable? Or not?

Men and women, I am not against working people and I am not against working people making a living. I have worked as a union organizer in hostile environments. I am sorry if my arguments against the mill restart are causing you pain.

If there are any of you who need an advocate, (and I don’t care if yu are right or left, Dem or Repub) and you feel like your life has been seriously disrupted by the closing of the mill and the abrupt departure of Lee & Mann, please contact me bill@eurekaworkers.org and I will do whatever I can for you and of course it would be free of charge. If I believe in your cause I will be a tireless advocate for you.

I think that all of you pulp workers, and the community at large got screwed by some sharp operators.

If Attorney General Jerry Brown got 100 letters from unemployed pulp mill workers asking for an investigation of Lee & Mann and Evergreen Pulp and possible avenues for restitution to our community do you think he might respond proactively?

have a peaceful day,
Bill

tim

August 6, 2010 at 11:37 am

I have heard Carbon Monoxide 8 tons per year-Sulfur Dioxide 300 per year-Nitrogen Oxides 61 ton per year-Particulants (heavy metals) 41 tons per year-Acetaldehyde 19000 lbs. per year-Ammonia 75000 lbs. per year-Benzene 4000 lbs. per year-Formaldehyde 4200 lbs. per year-Methanol 100000 lbs. per year-Methyl Ethyl Ketone 3500 per year-Naphthalene 150 lbs. per year-Styrene 1400 lbs per year-Xylenes 1000 lbs. per year. This goes into the air as I understand it.

49er

August 6, 2010 at 12:16 pm

Tim,
Instead of wondering (I have heard) why not go to the EPA and find which of these chemicals and the limits they impose on the Samoa Mill? The standards are set by the EPA and must be complied with, or the Pulp mill cannot operate. This is all part of the permit process. I do not feel that I am qualified to answer your questions or statement. Unlike your old articles which you published in this blog, the EPA has up to the minute data.

Please don’t mis-quote me. I stated that in its current shape, assuming it runs as a pulp mill, the mill is valued at $20 million. This is evidenced by the recent sale of the McKenzie, B.C. pulp mill. If the mill is scrapped it will be worth less than $20 million. According to our investment banker, if the pulp mill operates and achieves our financial forecast it will be worth $100 million.

tim

August 6, 2010 at 1:16 pm

49er are you spokesman or secretary for Mr. Simpson? I am a citizen not a chemist. I want simple answers that we can ALL people can read without spending days on the computer. If you are indeed working in an official capacity you should be able to answer my questions.

49er

August 6, 2010 at 1:53 pm

Tim
I am a member of AWPPW Local 49 and have NO contact with Mr. Simpson.
I used to work at the Pulp Mill and now my interest is seeing information on this blog that is accurate.
I feel that after 40 years working at the Samoa mill, with no ill effects, that it is important to support the people in this area that may benefit as I did, from the operation of the Mill.

Plaintruth

August 6, 2010 at 3:15 pm

Thank you 49er,
But I dont think these guys want answers. They want Just as much mud slung a possible, Keeping as much bad story line about the mill as they can. I’ve seen Mr Simpson answer question after question. Then get called a liar. Or they start right over like they never got an answer.
Whats good is the EPA and so forth understand the real facts about the mill.

tim

August 6, 2010 at 7:21 pm

I want to know if the pollutants that I have listed will still be coming out of the stacks. I want to know how accurate my information is.

Plaintruth

August 6, 2010 at 8:36 pm

Tim ‘
Just like Mr Simpson has stated .
Call the mill and ask and go see for your self.
Solid and simple.Its all there in the wide open to see friend.
Thats why the EPA is on board . Its not the devil out to fool everyone. It is what it is .A pulp mill. And it is one of the finest out in this world. And just think .It could be one of Humbolts finest examples of the “Green Industril revolution”.
But I guess that would take a real leap in education for many.600 ton is a good pace and it has always made a profit. Its all about who siphoned it off in the past few owners. Evergreen did us ok. But burned a few bridges . Most things are paid up atleast for the workers..
Like it or not Most should simpley state just that.
But like dad said. “Pay me now, or pay me later ! Make pulp here with oversight,Or let China Etc,send it to U on the “air waves”,,,,,,,,,The answers have been given over and over. Join us at the mill and learn a bit .Or “pass the buck” to the future anyway way you can sleep.