Monday, November 20, 2006

After returning from Columbus, Benny and I have a lot to share with our readers. But there really were two different experiences for us during this trip -- The Game...and everything else. So we'll talk football here with the rest in the post below this one.

The better football team won Saturday. Plain and simple.

This wasn't about one play, one call, field conditions or any of those other time-tested excuses. Instead, the Buckeyes' offensive firepower overwhelmed a Michigan defense that had been the linchpin of the 2006 team. And Buckeye QB Troy Smith proved he's not just a scrambler as he dissected U-M with precision passes in a performance that surely clinched the Heisman Trophy for him.

Whenever Michigan closed the gap, the Buckeyes and their senior quarterback answered. And in the end, when Ted Ginn, Jr. recovered Michigan's last gasp onsides kick, it proved to be too much.

Yet even in defeat, the 2006 Michigan Wolverines can hold their heads high. They never quit. Down by 14 in one of the loudest stadiums in the country, they fought back time and time again. But ultimately, giving up the big play -- something that haunted Michigan in 2005 but hadn't been seen this season -- doomed the Wolverines as they surrendered three TDs of 40+ yards.

It's interesting to glance over all the comments left on the site while we were away. The thing that puzzles me (and Benny) the most are all the anti-Lloyd Carr rants. So let me be very clear: Lloyd Carr did not lose this game. Period. As some others have even stated, Carr did not cause Chad Henne to overthrow a wide open Mario Manningham for a sure TD when the game was 7-7. Carr did not cause Troy Smith to thread a needle on 3rd and 15 on OSU's first drive, a perfect pass that kept the Buckeyes marching toward their first TD. Carr did not cause Shaun Crable to fail to wrap up Chris Wells in the backfield, resulting in a 52 yard TD instead of a two or three yard loss. And Carr did not cause Crable to go helmet-to-helmet with Smith in the waning minutes of the game, keeping a Buck drive alive instead of giving Michigan the ball with plenty of time left and down only four points.

Yet even with such costly mistakes, Michigan would have beaten anyone else on its schedule -- maybe even the country -- with Saturday's performance. But unfortunately, they were playing the one team with a QB who could thread that needle. The one squad with a running back who could elude a player like Shaun Crable. The one group of football players talented enough to take the Wolverines best shot but still come out on top.

Yes, unfortunately for Michigan fans, the #2 team in the country was up against the #1 team in the land.

RANDOM THOUGHTS:

* Even against the Bucks, if someone had told me before the game that U-M would hang 39 on OSU and get three turnovers (with none of their own), I'd have predicted Michigan would win in a rout.

* Was it just me, or did our defensive guys look like they were barely getting set before each play? It always seemed like Leon Hall was sprinting to get across the field to get in position across from Ted Ginn each play. And was there anything we could have done to counter their spread, some sort of adjustment? I don't really know. In the first half, Troy Smith played as well as a QB can play, in my opinion.

* I noticed in the comment section some Buckeye fans saying that the game wasn't really that close because the Buckeyes made the above-mentioned turnovers. That that was uncharacteristic of the Bucks and, as such, if their were a rematch in January (which is a discussion for another post) they'd surely win by an even greater margin. But, again, as some of our readers so rightly pointed out, the Wolverines to giving up 500+ yards, isn't exactly the norm either.

* As always, Mike Hart proved just how incredible he is. What a competitor. Some have questioned if we went away from him too much. I disagree.

* Credit to the Michigan team for only having one procedure penalty all game as the crowd was as loud as I've ever heard.

* Henne needs to learn, since he's not a scrambler, to throw the damn ball away when nobody's open instead of a taking big sacks. Those were killers.

* #8 for the Bucks, Roy Hall, was a weapon I don't think many Wolverines were familiar with before the game.

* Willis Barringer's injury on the first series was a bigger loss than most Wolverine fans probably realize. Johnny Sears just isn't ready for that sort of stage yet.

91 comments:

Can you really say Michigan made any mistakes? I think Crabel's personal foul was a big mistake, but other than that, that was one of the cleanest performances I've seen in a while.

No turn overs on offense, and the D came up with 3. Hart with 3 TDs and almost a buck fifty on the ground. Henne was money... I think that was his most yardage all year (?).

There were a couple missed tackles/coverage that resulted in Buckeye points, but I gotta say, that was a clean game.

Funny thing is, I'm really not devastated. If you would have told me Friday that we'd lose this game by a field goal I would have broke down crying. But to be honest, I don't feel like that. We played to the best of our ability, but Ohio State won. They deserve the Big Ten.

And I'll tell you what, the Rose Bowl is not a bad consolation prize, even if we don't make it to the BCS title.

It was a great season. Going from 7-5 to 11-1 (12-1?) is a HUGE improvement and we'd be selfish to not be happy with this.

Avery, thanks for the post. There is one part of me that strongly agrees with you, but the other part is heartbroken because I was hoping that our Wolverines could pull off the upset. And there are so many "if only"s in the game which would result in a completely different outcome. Oh God I hate that roughing the passer call.

I'm a relatively new Michigan fan. I'm a senior at U of M, never having followed college football until my freshman year, and my parents went to OSU. After last year's devastating season, I eagerly anticipated September, kept track of recruiting, and brushed up on my football history. I knew that there was tremendous talent on a team that was due for a spectacular season. And when my friends doubted that we would win at ND, I knew that this would be the breakout season that I had been waiting for.

It's just so tough to see a season like this come to such an end. I wanted Michigan to have a championship season that included a win at Columbus. Dammit, I wanted us to beat Troy Smith and the overrated Ted Ginn. And Anthony Gonzales still gives me nightmares (one reason being that catch last year and the other his immense ugliness!) I want to find a way to hibernate from January through August.

I mentioned Roy Hall here a long, long time ago, and was ridiculed for it by some of you people. I've been ridiculed by people at MGoBlog for saying that it was silly to think that Morgan Trent was fast enough to cover Ted Ginn, when it turns out he's not even fast enough to run down Antonio Pittman and Chris Wells.

I was terribly impressed with you guys Saturday; you played valiant, inspired football, especially on offense, and even with our incredible success on offense, your defense was always very, very close to getting a handle on things, but it just never really happened. Your D is much, much faster than last year's, but still not quite fast enough.

On the subject of your defense, some of you might say that it was a poor performance, but I'd argue that what happened was not so much a function of what your defense did or didn't do, but rather what was done to it by the spread formations, Tressel's playcalling, and the best group of skill position players in the country (Also, RT Kirk Barton said in today's Dispatch that OSU's OL had noticed on film that nobody so far had made an attempt to get after your DL's hands, whatever that means, and that was a big reason why we were able to largely neutralize your pass rush). FWIW, if you take Hart's attempts and extrapolate out for Pittman and Wells, you get 177 and 257 yards, respectively. You can say that their averages were pumped up by the long runs, but there's no reason to think they wouldn't have had a few more big gains each given more attempts, given that we ran successfully pretty much the entire game, right down to the sealing first down at the end.

Still, Hart was awesome. Even tougher and quicker than I thought he was (and slower in the open field, but oh well), and I already thought he was plenty tough and quick. But: what do y'all think of his post-game comments? "Plain talk" a la Charlie Weis, sour grapes, classless, or something else? Seriously, if he thinks there's "nothing special" about OSU's defense, what does that imply about Michigan's?

On the subject of rematches, why should we have to beat you twice? Even if you won the rematch, wouldn't that simply mean that we were equal? Why doesn't a one-loss USC or SEC champ deserve their shot against us, now that you've had yours? Isn't that kind of the way college football is supposed to work - that you only get one bite at the apple?

As much as it hurts me to say, OSU was clearly the better team on Saturday. I don't believe that we should get a rematch even if we are the 2nd best team in the nation. If the tables were turned and we beat OSU by 3 in Ann Arbor, would we want to play OSU again? I think not. Last Saturday was OUR national championship game and we lost.

Really nice post and very objective. As a Bucks fan, I enjoyed poking fun at Carr before this game, but I gained a lot of respect for him for how his team played and the way he handled Bo's passing. He seems like a class act.

I hope OSU doesn't have to play UM again so we can prove that we are better than the nation, not just the Big Ten, but hey, it's entirely possible Michigan gets another shot.

I think Lloyd Carr did an awesome job against tOSU and anyone saying otherwise needs a serious refresher in the game of football. I will admit I thought the initial defensive strategy was soft, but otherwise our game plan was perfect. We were agressive, focused, and I think very well prepared. It simply came down to a few errors in execution, which I expect from any team in front of a crowd that loud. Despite the crowd, OSU's dominate offense, and the errors Llyod managed to keep us in it where as many teams may have given up. I mean give the guy a break we competed with the #1 team in the loudest stadium on earth. If not for the screw up by Henne in the 1st, and the bullshit penalty on tOSU's 3rd down in the 4th we could have won. On a nuetral playing field we'd prbably take em. But hey we might not get that chance. Until we find out stop acting like babies and blaming the coach for satisfaction. Suck it up and realize that tOSU for whatever reasons, not Lloyd Carr, was the better team on Saturday. Go Blue!!and Go Irish!!

On a rematch, I am against it. However, the BCS is designed to pit No. 1 v. No. 2. If Michigan ends up No. 2 then so be it. I don't think any other argument can be made. It is what it is. If it happens and people don't like it they can make a simple rule to avoid it in the future.

Matsut-I think it was the safeties' responsibility to chase down Pittman and Wells, and they just looked way out of position. I think Wells and Pittman had those two runs as a byproduct of such a successful passing game- no intended insult to them, but if Tressel hadn't done a great job spreading Michigan out, the middle wouldn't have been wide open. Wells broke one tackle; Pittman was untouched.

I played 10 minutes in a high school game and scored twice before getting injured. If you extrapolate that to a whole season, I would've scored like a 270 goals! So no, I don't think your argument is valid there.

I don't think we deserve a rematch, and I don't particularly want one. I understand Hart's display of perceived poor sportsmanship, but I think he was just incredulous that his defense could get beat that badly. He couldn't believe it so he struck it up to be an anomaly. So no, he wasn't particularly gracious in defeat, but I don't think a kid should be scrutinized so thoroughly for believing in his team.

Good post. As a Bucks blogger, I'm very interested to read the Michigan-perspective breakdown of the game. Well done, good respect of the game and the teams. I have nothing but good things to say about UM. I'd hate to play a tougher team than the Wolverines.

Just goes to show that there are intelligent, respectful opinions on both sides. Sometimes those are obscured by the idiocy of the masses (especially in our case, unfortunately).

If you want to read a (hopefully) intelligent and respectful breakdown of the game from an OSU perspective, check out my after-game post:

How does it feel to once again be owned by THE Ohio State University? Lloyd Carr will never beat Jim Tressel for a second time. Thanks to Jim Tressel the rivalry is now officially dead. The school up north sucks and their fans are losers. Their only wins were over two over-rated teams. If they would have played a real schedule, they would have ended up 8-4. If THE Ohio State University wouldn't have turned the ball over 3 times, the score would have been 49-21. Go Buckeyes.

If you want to see Michigan v. Ohio State rematch....Go watch ESPN Classic on Wednesday at 8:00 PM. All this rematch talk is bullshit. I'm pretty sure everyone will agree that Ohio State is the superior team.

"Yet even with such costly mistakes, Michigan would have beaten anyone else on its schedule -- maybe even the country -- with Saturday's performance."

UM would have beaten ANY other team in the country, hands down.

Before the game, I was patently against a rematch. After the game, I am still against a rematch, although for purely selfish reasons. I don't think we (osu), or any other team in the country, can beat this M team twice in one season.

Whitedawg i love how you tOSU fans are afraid to play us on nuetral turf. Sure your team beat us in Ohio Stadium which is pretty hard to win in as a visiting team. Besides if you Buck fans actually thought your team was superior you would want to play Michigan right? And, dont give me that crap about wanting to play the best competition. All I know is it would be a hell of a game in Tempe, and Michigan would be an entirely different team.

THE Ohio State University would love to play the school up North again. It would be nice to improve Jim Tressel's record to 6-1. Lloyd Carr cannot beat Ohio State anywhere. This time there will not be near as many mistakes and the final score will be THE Ohio State 54, scUM 3. I don't think THE Ohio State will shut them out. I wouldn't want Lloyd Carr to lose his job. Next year Carr will be 1-7 (pending the possibility of a rematch the Championship Game), 1-6 without a rematch. Go Bucks.

There is NO question the Buckeyes were used to playing on their joke of a field. They knew exactly what cuts they could and could not make. The Michigan players and coaches did not make this excuse and won't in the future because they'd be ridiculed as "whiners." But facts are facts: the Michigan players slipped at least TWELVE times in critical situations because they did not realize such cuts were not physically possible. OSU should be embarrassed by that field.Was it the pivotal factor in the outcome? NO. Troy Smith is the reason OSU won the last 3 games against Michigan. God damn I'm glad that fucker is graduating!The Michigan safties' poor play was probably were the other big reason why Michigan lost. All 3 big plays would've been stopped if the safeties were in their right spots.

You said that Michigan giving up 500+ yards isn't normal...but guess what? Us gaining 500 on teams like you is normal. We GAVE you the ball and didn't have any takeaways and you STILL LOST. If Ann Arbor was a real city I'm sure you would have problems too. But you're not, you're boring in your never-ending quest to officially be considered part of Canada. Have fun playing hockey...maybe ESPN 6 will show a game.

You've got to be kidding about the Buckeyes having an advantage by playing on their turf! I think it is well documented that this sod was just layed several weeks prior to the game in order to improve the prior poor sod. Also, it is well documented that they had not even walked on the new sod prior to gameday. The condition of the field affected both teams equally!

You Michigan fans will find any reason to bitch. "If we played on a neutral field" for fuck sake we beat your team in the Big House last year. I can't believe you are now trying to blame the schedule. You have known all year that you had to come to Columbus. This is complete bullshit. If you don't win you don't get a pat on the back and handed a chance to play for the national championship. You know what you didn't beat us and now you blame the schedule, give me a fucking break. You sorry ass losers. You wonder why we have no respect for you. You all bitch about every little detail. Just like your running back Hart. Good game and all but get over it. The game isn't neutral when we come to the big house and beat you although your fans are perhaps the worst in the nation at making noise.

My point is this: your team has played on a shit field all year. By the 12th goddamn game they've LEARNED what cuts they can and can't make! I don't gve a damn if that particular sod was new or not. The condition of that field was the same pathetic condition OSU was having since mid-September AND YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT! Michigan played on good fields all year. Every other school they played at managed to either grow grass successfully or put in artificial turf. So it caught Michigan off guard. Hell, by the 2nd half, the number of Michigan players slipping was WAY down. Guess why. Because they started to get accustomed to the SHIT FIELD like your boys already had! (By pure coincidence, Michigan allowed half the amount of points and yards in the 2nd half.) Buckeyes, just do what Herbie said and get Field Turf. Your inpetitude at growing grass is pathetic and embarrassment to the sport of football.

Anon 9:31.Yes, Michiagn had the same problem with their grass, and it occurred for very similar reasons: the field was lowered during the latest stadium renovation. I don't want to make it sound like OSU is the only one who had this problem. It IS a common problem. SO FIX IT! Look, I don't want to be seen as a whiner. It's NOT why UM lost!2006 OSU IS BETTER THAN 2006 MICHIGAN. PERIOD. TROY SMITH IS THE BEST PLAYER TO EVER PLAY FOR OHIO STATE. PERIOD.I just hate seeing the kids slipping and sliding around on bullshit sloppy fields instead of making plays, that's why I was venting about your damn field.

we are fixing it......and we did spend $100 grand to replace the field for just that one game.

In the off season the entire surface will be ripped out. Then the drainage system will be redone and made better. After that...either field turf of new grass will be put in....still no word on which yet.

Lloyd will beat a Troy Smithless bucks next year at home, take it to the bank.

Real schedule? You mean like beating two top 10 BCS teams (ND and Wisc).

Moreover, when Tress stops playing illegal players like Clarett and TS (500 dollar QB), then maybe you'll see a shift towards Michigan. If you think Troy Smith is an easy replacement, you don't know jack about football.

j tin- You are a great example of a buckeye. Sadly, you have great comments and then the next 4 OSU bloggers are jerks. I am sure you are just as embarassed by them as we are annoyed with them.

This is a UM FOOTBALL bog. yes, the turf, the refs, the players, the plays, etc. will be discussed. And, we will vent our frustration. Don't come on OUR FOOTBALL blog & bitch about us whining. If you want to hear about how sweet you are, go to an OSU football blog.

Great game, great QB, great win. There you go. If you want more praises, go back to c-bus.

Wisconsin doesn't have a win against a top 25 team, and Notre Dame's best win is against Penn State. I'm not sure how either of those teams is top 10 in anything! Enjoy your tie for second in the BigTen UM, that's all you deserve. Also, listening to Hart after the game was embarassing - suck it up man....you are 0-3 against OSU, it's time to shut your mouth and stop hoping for "one more chance". 503 yards of offense = dominance. Why can't you all be happy to be heading to the Rose Bowl, it was good enough for that A-hole Charles Woodson, it should be good enough for the '06 squad, however I didn't see Hart or Henne running around with a rose in their mouth taunting OSU fans - Karma is a b!tch ain't it. HA. We'll send you all a weather report from Arizona. GO BUCKS!

Jesus titty fucking christ! Some of you fuckeye fans are so goddamn obnoxious it sickens me. Never mind the fact that there were fans who had their hearts broken over this one. Who wouldn't give anything for a second chance? There are tons of things that could have been different. But it is what it is. Changing those factors may have produced different outcomes. Just accept the score for what it is. I hate it too, and wish that Michigan could play as well as it did against other teams in the nation.

Hey, if Mich goes to the Rose Bowl and we win, then we'll celebrate and we may even finish the year ranked #2 over the loser of the natl championship game. Goddammit how I wanted to see us beat Troy Smith. He's really good, but I still think that he's beatable.

Let's be honest here. Michigan played as well as they possibly could (no turnovers)while Ohio State did everything they could to keep Michigan in the game. (3 Turnovers, 2 totally unforced botched snaps by a center with an injured hand.) It's not like Michigan forced those turnovers with blindsiding sacks knocking the ball loose. Ohio State scored 6 touchdowns and only punted 3 times. That means Ohio State scored a TD 2 out of every 3 times they had the ball as long as they didn't turn it over. So without the turnovers they probably score 2 more td's on Michigan and the score is 50something to 20something.Let's face it. After all the half time score where both teams had zero turnovers was 28-14. If the turnover battle were 3-0 in Ohio States favor the bucks win by 40 points. Besides, what does Michigan have to gain by playing a rematch? Everyone across the country thinks it is total BS and Michigan most likely gets beat much worse the 2nd time facing more humiliation and "Tressel and Troy own Michigan" talk. Even if Michigan would win everyone says 'so what, you lost the first time' and then you get a split title ? I say go to the Rose Bowl, knock the crap out of ND again or some SEC school and take pride in probably giving an amazing Ohio State team their biggest scare of the year, even with the gift turnovers.

I'm from SEC country so I don't really have a dog in this fight. But it is downright disgraceful for a big time game to be played on a piece of crap field like that one Saturday. I read someone say here that OSU had to play on the same field, but my question is why did I not see any of the OSU people sliding on crucial plays? On one of the TD's I saw the receiver in the corner of the end zone and the Michigan db sliding out of the back of the endzone. Now this might be okay for Podunk U game but this was #1 and #2 the biggest game of the century what the hell? Also you OSU people might want to listen to Trojan Mike because the boys from Troy as in USC are starting to kick it! And for all of you boys from OSU who think you have some good skill players look at USC's receivers, Jarrett, Smith, Turner, Vidal Hazleton, Travon Patterson and on, and on and on. As Trojan Mike said Fight ON Trojans!!!

excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses...You tell Buckeye fans to win with class. How about you learn to lose with class. I would think after the past 6 years you would have learned something about losing to OSU. Guess not? I can't wait to check back in here and see all the posts about how your team should be in the national championship...not going to happen. But I will love watching Notre Dame go down this Saturday and I will think about all you beloved Wolverine fans in Michigan. How about you try beating the buckeyes some time.

The crew has laid new sod twice so far this year. There is some kind of grass disease that has killed it. The sod was 3 weeks old and obviously it was not ready. The lack of good ground also counted for a Buckeye turnover when the center Datish had a bad snap. The ball got caught in a divet. So yeah the ground sucked but it did so without bias, kind of like the SEC teams this year.

The OSU and UM game on Saturday was a good game...but it was not a "great" game as people are making it out to be. Michigan was down for almost the entire game -usually by more than a touchdown. It wasn't like a back-and-forth battle. OSU proved to be the better team and UM didn't convince that they are the #2 team in the country. Now Michigan may be the #2 team in the country but if USC wins out they will be going to the NC. Here is my argument for why there SHOULD NOT be a rematch -even if USC loses.

1. It's not fair to Ohio State. If Michigan wins the rematch will they play another game for best of 3? If there were only 2 loss teams out there, I could see a more valid argument, but it appears as if Saturday's game meant nothing if they are simply going to play again. They might as well have played their second teams and decided to simply keep it a close game. Which brings me to my #2 point.

2. It goes away from a playoff system, which seems to be the concensus on the most fair system. Since we don't have playoffs, we should count on the winners of the conferences to work it out. Who's to say OSU and UM are the 2 best teams? They've played in a very weak conference and OSU didn't even play Wisconsin. They need to play either the winner of the SEC, USC or Notre Dame in my opinion -or even the winner of the Big East if it comes to that, which it won't. Michigan had their chance. They lost. What makes them so special to deserve a double elimination game against the same team? Point 3 is related to the playoff system.

3. The argument that the 'supposed' 2 best teams should play each other in the NC is invalid, if we are thinking in terms of an objective, playoff system. Sinc UM lost to the #1 team, they shouldn't get another chance. In College Basketball, many times the 2 best teams meet in the final four. Now the loser dosen't get to play again in the championship game even if they are considered the 2nd best team -the winner of the other final four game does. I know there's a huge difference in C. football, but without a proper playoff sytem, I see this as fair reasoning.

4. It is completely unfair to the other confernces and this year, specifically, to Florida, Notre Dame, and Arkansas (and perhaps WV or Louiville.) You're going to tell me that the winner of the SEC shouldn't get the shot in the NC after Michigan lost -assuming USC loses??! And if somehow USC wins out and Michigan is still #2 in the BCS that USC is going to be shut out. USC had the toughest schedule in the country! The PAC10 and SEC are the toughest conferences. The Big East is stronger than the Big Ten. Not to mention Notre Dame. As for Dame, why did they play the rest of their games after the Michigan loss...to see themselves maybe win out, beat USC and then not get a shot at Ohio State after Michigan lost? I Understand Michigan handled the Irish earlier this year -but it was at the beginning of the year. Notre Dame has had a tougher schedule -maybe not the toughest- but better than Michigan. If Notre Dame finds themselves in the #2-3 fight, I say Michigan had their chance. Let Notre Dame have theirs.

5. My fifth point is simply Ball State. It's more subjective but it bugs me that Michian got away from any crtiticism (and Ohio State struggling to Illinois.) Michigan struggled againt Ball State- a 3-7 team. Now USC, Flroida and Notre Dame have struggled with less-than-great teams...but Ball State? That alone should be the clincher for them not deserving a 2nd chance.

The sad thing is, I can't see anyone else taking the #2 spot except for USC. of course this isn't sad for me..but if USC happens to lose, I stll don't want Michigan in there. Maybe If Notre Dame beats USC by a large margin? Arkansas has to count on USC beating Dame and losing to UCLA and them taking care of Florida to have a chance. Florida simply has to beat Arkansas. Problem is, It doesn't seem any other team -beside USC- will be able to jump Michigan even if these teams accomplish this- given the current BCS numbers.

To finish my dissertation, it should be mentioned than I'm actually a fan of Michigan. I loathe Ohio State -more than any other team. I wanted Michigan to win. But they had their chance. They failed. Let another deserving team have an opportunity.

You have got to be kidding me? Notre Dame does not deserve to be in the Top Ten. They were destroyed at home by Michigan. Who have they played? You cannot tell me that Army, Navy and Airforce are better than any Big Ten team. Remember last years' Fiesta Bowl when THE Ohio State destroyed Notre Dame? Nothing has changed since then. Charlie Weis and Brady Quinn are over-rated. If they manage to beat USC, let the school up North have a rematch. Tressel becomes 6-1 after that. Go Bucks

Wolverine fan, please don't lump all of us Buckeye fans in together. There are good and bad fans of every school in the nation, just as there are good and bad doctors, cops, lawyers, etc.

It was one heck of a game and lived up to the absurd hype heading into it. I think Buckeye fans are a little upset with Hart's postgame comments, but it's hard to guess what I'd say if I were in his shoes.

Don't get me wrong the game was great,but OSU and Michigan's defense both stunk up the field.The score should have never been thathigh.It was more of a shootout game if you ask me,alot times on Saturday you see this happen great offense nodefense.hit me up on this!!

As far as hart's comments... Some reporter asked him why he was successful running against you guys -- what did you want him to say? he was put on the spot. I don't think either defense showed how good they were -- who would have ever imagined that many points on either end.

Regarding Henne and scrambling, it appeared to me that the Bucks had him scouted pretty well. When they got pressure on him, his instinct was usually to try and run back a few more yards, rather than stepping up in the pocket. Invariably, there were Buckeyes hanging out back a few yards waiting for him.

I can't figure out why I keep hearing that all 3 turnovers were gifts. As I recall, Troy's interception came after he was in danger of being sacked and tried to force a ball into double coverage. Sounds like a forced turnover to me. The two fumbles were miscues by the O.

I think at this point, I wanna see SC get into the championship and see them get pwned. If that's the way it pans out, I'm pullin for the Buckeyes.

I thought it was an amazing game with both offenses sticking it to the opposing Ds, which was a shock. I just wish it could be OSU-SC in the NC and FLA-UM in the Rose Bowl, but we're gonna end up with Cal.

I've seen an awful lot of comments since the game about the quality of the field--Michigan players slipping, that sort of thing. But both teams played on the same field, and players do slip occasionally. A slip by a cornerback in the 1996 OSU/UM game (also in Columbus) may very well have cost the Buckeyes that game and a national championship. It happens.

As far as the issue of a rematch goes, I'm opposed to it. Occasionally you do see rematches in March Madness, but the difference there is that it's a tournament where everyone gets a shot. I don't think there's a clear cut #2 team right now and there's going to be significant disagreement no matter who gets picked, but I think USC or the SEC champion deserves the chance that Michigan has already had.

Great game, Michigan. I gained some new respect for your team (well, and then I lost some after Mike Hart's whinning at the post-game press conference). But anyway, I think I'll be chearing for you in the Rose Bowl. You have a very good team this year. Next year, you should be absolutely scary good. Go Bucks!

nice cut-n-paste job from your comment on MGoBlog. The current BCS scheme does not speak to rematches, 'going away from a playoff system,' or being 'fair' to the #1 team (whatever that means). Whether that scheme should be changed is a question for the offseason.

The team deemed #2 by the combined wisdom of the human polls and the computer rankings in December will get the other slot in the Glendale Bowl, and (by definition) they will deserve it.

And then we'll see what happens when college players have to make cuts on green-painted dirt.

UM was and is better than OSU. OSU was lucky with the pass interference call, or else we would have nailed them. We were on fire the second half. OSU's too scared for a rematch now. Hart is right- bring it on, are ya scared?

UM was and is better than OSU. OSU was lucky with the pass interference call, or else we would have nailed them. We were on fire the second half. OSU's too scared for a rematch now. Hart is right- bring it on, are ya scared?

you OSU fans seem to forget that you had go out get a new coach just to start winning again.Cooper had some teams that were supposed to beat Michigan,but they couldn'twhen Tressel started out with OSU,Michigan was down we were losing about 3 games every year.

Anon 11:40 - if you have never seen a defensive back sliding or lose his footing while trying to cover a WR making moves, then you are certainly not from SEC country. I can honestly tell you I saw more slips and grass failure on Michigan's side of the ball than I did on the Buckeye's. I don't see that as intentional on OSU's part though. Does anyone know any differences in their choice of cleats? How much time did Michigan have on the field in practice prior to the game? I don't buy into the business that OSU players knew exactly how much they could cut on the grass whereas Michigan's guys had no clue not having played there all season. Would anyone piss & moan if a running game team let the grass get taller than normal to slow down a visitng team's fast passing offense? It happens all the time. It's part of the game. It does give an advantage to the home team, but then again, it is called, "home field advantage." Hell, Brett Farve blows in a dome, but does that mean no domes for Green Bay? Sounds like OSU spent a lot of effort and money to try to improve conditions. Hell, they gave grass at Lambeau- what's the problem?

Columbus is a "real city" like Andy Katzenmoyer was a "real student-athlete." And, to anticipate your response, at least Detroit has real pro sports and a decent music scene to offset the urban violence.

Ohio is a much better state than that cesspool up North. Detroit and Flint are two of the worst cities in the country. Oh and those pro sports teams are so good. Detroit Lions = Laughing stock of the NFL. You have to be pathetic to lose to the Detroit Lions; just like if you lose to Meatchicken. Meatchicken blows, plain and simple. The game wasn’t even close. Go back to the UP, eh.

Agreed. Yes that field sucks ass and you'd think Ohio State would have a playing surface worthy of its athletes, but both teams had to play on it so it's not a valid excuse. Ohio State deserves all the praise in the world for finding a way to pile up yards and points against Michigan's defense and take 9 new starters and have such a good defense of their own.

My Random Thoughts

As for Chad Henne overthrowing Mario Manningham, watching the replays of the route, Manningham looked very slow coming out of his moves. I'm not sure if he was slipping or simply wasn't running as fast, but it looked to me like Henne threw the ball to where Manningham was supposed to be.

Yes, Michigan's defense was running around trying to get set before the snap a lot. As for the spread, in the first half receivers were frequently covered by linebackers. It was pointed out at least once that Anthony Gonzales was being covered by a linebacker. I think there was an adjustment made at halftime and although I wasn't checking who was on the field and don't know for sure, I suspect Michigan went to a dime package. I actually think it worked pretty well. I just wish the adjustment had been made sooner, I couldn't wait for that first half to end.

There are a handful of plays where I didn't like the call and I was disappointed that the defense didn't have an adjustment to Ohio State's 20 wide receiver formation until halftime, but Lloyd Carr deserves a huge amount of praise for making the right changes to turn things around this season. It's easy to forget that for a few days, Ron English was a Chicago Bear (that's the 9-1 Chicago Bears folks). And, I don't know what he said at halftime but for Michigan to come out the way they did after being down by 14 points and having no answer to Troy Smith but it must have been something. During most of the game he looked looser than he has in past games, he was smiling more and didn't get at attitude when he talked to the reporter at halftime. Oh, and he had just lost a friend, a mentor, and a supporter the day before.

Are Ohio State fans the only fans in the country that don't whine and make excuses when they lose? When Ohio State went 2-10-1 vs um under cooper, usually with superior teams, NOT ONCE did i ever hear a buckeye fan making excuses about the field, the refs, not anything other than not getting the job done and cooper not being able to beat michigan. When Shawn Springs slipped allowing Streets to score the winning TD i didn't hear everyone screaming that it was the fields fault. people slip, michigan played on the same field, things happen. Now the tables have turned and michigan has some lame excuse every year. This year Ohio State hands you 3 turnovers, you play the game of your life and you still lose. what do you think the score would have been if the turnover battle was 3-0 in Ohio States favor? OSU by 40 or 50? Give it up.

Cowherd nailed it when he said something like...I have already seen the Michigan vs Troy and Tress movie 3 times. I don't need to see it again to know how it ends. I guess if Michigan plays Ohio State enough times they might eventually win one but what does that prove?

There is no need to replay the scUM/Ohio State game. Ohio State would destroy Michigan once again. The final score would be 47-7. Woodley, Harris, Branch, Henne, Hart, Manningham, and Breaston are all over-rated. They wish that they could live in the shadows of Ginn, Smith, Pittman, Gonzales, Wells, and of course Tressel. Go Bucks. Michigan sucks.

Thanks for you kindness to OSU, but we already knew that our football team was the best in the land. We knew scUM wasn't even in our category. Maybe next year, but I seriously doubt it. OSU and Tressel march on to victory and scUM becomes irrelevant and ancient; more importantly a thing of the past.

1. Tressel complained about the poor field conditions as far back as the Penn State game in mid-September. The whole season has been a mad scramble to make the turf playable. I know it wasn't anywhere near ideal but I think that saying the game would have ended differently if field conditions were perfect is rediculous. Most of OSU's big plays were due to good execution of the play called or bad tackling by UM.

2. Anyone who complains about the Crable hit being a bad call had better explain why its OK to hit the QB in the helmet when he's out of bounds but its not OK to push the center standing in the middle of thei field while he's intentionally staring at his shoes.

3. I'm not terribly upset with Hart's comments. He could have been more humble, but he sounds quite complimentary compared to Chris Perry's comments. If you didn't hear Chris Perry's comments, there is a link to them on the front page of this site. Now that the game is over I think Chris Perry sounds like an even bigger idiot than he did when I read them on Friday. Good stuff Chris, now back to the bench.

4. I think UM deserves a rematch. In my oppinion they are clearly the #2 team in the country. However, I hope it doesn't happen. I would much rather see them go throttle someone in the Rose Bowl and show the world how strong the Big 2 of the Big 10 really are.

5. Don't worry about missing out on a chance to play in the NC this year. Next year UM is going to be ranked #1 preseason. They have a great chance of running the table and picking up a Heisman for Hart, much like OSU is going to do this year.

Yost,Glad you survived. While it sounds like you had a rough time, I have to say this was one of the more controlled tosu games I’ve been to in the last few years. However, I stayed away from Lane and High. Most of my tosu friend fans do that as well. The city/tosu have a problem w/ the drinking on Lane. It’s just dangerous, regardless of what you’re wearing.

Away from Lane, I ran into numerous tosu fans who were clearly going out of their way to be polite and friendly (i was decked in blue). Most were older, but a fair number were student age. I caught a few F-U’s, but I don’t pay much attention to it (maybe I’ve become conditioned).

Also, caught many sincere condolences for Bo. He meant a lot to older tosu fans- their last tie to Woody. And they loved to hate him.

Afterwards, the overwhelming majority of tosu fans, while loud, were very gracious, citing how good the game was, how close the end was, and for the most part, how good both teams were. Many went out of their way to shake my hand and talk about how tight and entertaining a game it had been, wishing me luck (sincerely) in the Rose or in some cases, in a rematch. The only F-U’s I heard came from drunks coming INTO the area, not away from the game.

All that said, I find two things predictably humorous about the post game analysis/comments (which may have been posted by the drunks I ran into leaving and not the fans who actually attended).

First, it took less than a day for this to go from a tight, close, “could of gone either way”, 3 pt game into a self proclaimed 3 pt domination, beat down, and rout. Too bad some people can’t be happy w/ what it was and need to try to make it something more than it was.

It was a great game. It was close. They won. But there’s no more to it than that.

Second, while their homo-erotic fascination w/ Tre$$el is odd by itself, what is w/ this compelling need to convince us that Carr is somehow Cooper? It’s like the Cooper years left them so scarred that they need to project it back on us. Which is too bad for them because Carr’s record will never be like Coop’s. He’s already won a NC and too many tosu games, whatever his record against Switzer. Sorry, there’s only one Cooper and tosu “owns” him. The “Carr as Cooper” theme won’t fit, or if you prefer- that dog won’t hunt.

Again, it was a very good, entertaining, well played game. Tosu played better, but it was close and we had our shots. The final score speaks for itself- both ways.

right on...this business about tressel "owning" carr is bullshit. you can chalk the last three victories up to troy smith...he's been the difference maker.

and speaking of smith, did anybody else notice that he looked bored most of the game? honestly, i thought the guy was going to fall asleep he was making it look so easy (especially during the first half)

my biggest disappointment was that the wolverines didn't make a larger effort to establish the run during the first half. mike hart is the closet thing we have to the refuse to lose attitude/ability of troy smith and, although we got it going in the second half, i was craving a clock-eating, grind it out, 12 play 80 yard drive in the first half that keeps smith, ginn & co off the field. sure it slows down the pace of the game, but i'll settle for 21-14 victory any day of the week.

rematch? why not? depending on how things pan out in the next two weeks, if usc, arkansas, & florida all pick up additional or otherwise fail to impress then i have no problem with the wolverines in the championship game. and conisder this, if when it's all said & done, the wolverines have managed to pin the lone losses on notre dame, ohio state, and wisconsin then i would heartily embrace them as national champs (even with the blemish in columbus).

and here's another thing that hasn't gotten much talk yet, but if michigan comes up short in the bcs numerology and doesn't make it to arizona but is still #2 in the associated press poll then it's very possible they could still claim a share of the national title should ohio state lose to either usc, florida or arkansas—thus, presumably pushing the wolverines to #1 in the final ap poll.

< evil thought>...but here's a rather sweet possibility (and probable) possibility for all of us in "that state up north": the detroit lions draft troy smith next april with the top pick in the nfl draft.

i'm already smiling. worst case scenario is that he actually succeeds in getting the lions a few victories. even better though would be watching sweet justice unfold as his career sinks into the agonizing abyss otherwise known as the ford family football dynasty. ooh...i can taste it already< /evil thought>

No, surrounded, it wasn't exactly a "beatdown", but it also wasn't like the Buckeyes escaped by the skin of their teeth, either. I really haven't heard that much of the "it could have gone either way", except from UMers. When, exactly, could it have gone your way? You guys had one possession in the second half with a less-than-one-score deficit. Remember, it's not "almost winning" when you needed to recover the onside and then get another score to tie (and if you think you would have gone for the win, then you don't know Lloyd). You were beaten pretty soundly statistically, and the score was closer than it would have been absent the two OSU turnovers deep in our own end. Not trying to talk smack, just calling it like I saw it.

And I'll say again on the subject of rematches, that it's a bullshit idea. Why should we have to beat you twice to be the champs, but you only have to beat us once?

On the subject of Tressel "owning" Carr, I don't know about that, but I know Tressel's off to one hell of a start at 5-1. Given that Tressel will end his coaching career in Columbus, we'll have to wait another 10 or 15 years to find out who "owns" whom.

matsut,okay. if you're not trying to talk smack, then what would you call it? would you say you "dominated" us by 3 pts? you "routed" us by 3 pts? i think sunday's dispatch stated tosu "thumped" michigan. by 3 pts.

most people would call a 3 pt margin a "close game", regardless of how you got there. why isn't that good enough for some tosu fans? why do you think some of you feel compelled to try to make it something more than a close game?

it was a good game. it was a close game. you won. but seriously,what else would you call it?

and tre$$el is off to a great start. the concept of "owning" seems a tad silly. did woody "own" bo when he went 3-0-1? and did bo then "own" woody went 3-0?

no. it would sound silly.

i do think players have at time "owned" the series. Archie? we couldn't stop him. and vice versa for rick leach. this series has always seen streaks- but the players have always been the key- be it tom harmon or cassidy. i'd certainly add troy smith to that list.

finally, i sort of agree w/ you on the rematch. if FLA/Ark or USC win out, one of them should get a shot at you. we had ours (and let's not pretend glendale will be any more of a neutral field than columbus or the 2003 fiesta bowl).

on the other hand, if usc/ark/fla all end up w/two losses, i would say we are more deserving than flippin' ND.

and if we ever get a playoff system, you'll have a lot of potential rematches. this year, we'd be #1 and #2 seeds. rematch wouldn't just be a possibility, but a likelihood.

Cowherd nailed it when he said something like...I have already seen the Michigan vs Troy and Tress movie 3 times. I don't need to see it again to know how it ends. I guess if Michigan plays Ohio State enough times they might eventually win one but what does that prove?

anon 3:41 PM

cowherd? wonder if he lifted that from a buckeye poster here on the mzone

Matsut:Your team won. They earned it. They were the better team. But it was a close game. Almost everyone outside of Columbus has (accurately) written and said that. I would think that the win would be enough, but if not, go ahead and use whatever terminology you need to make yourself feel better about beating the #2 team in the nation and your top rival to earn a shot in the championship game.

And about that game: The team that deserves to play tOSU is the one that has earned the #2 ranking. If USC wins out, it will almost surely be them. But if Florida or Arkansas wins out, it very well may be Michigan, though like Surrounded I would have no major beef if it wasn't. (I'm not including the ND win out scenario, as their participation has been throuroughly rejected by every credible analyst.) So yes, under very plausible scenarios, Michigan would deserve to play tOSU despite losing to the Buckeyes on Saturday.

It's clear that you have some concerns about playing Michigan again, which is odd considering how--according to you--tOSU so soundly beat the Wolverines.

Surrounded:Excellent points re. the ridiculous notion that Tressel owns Carr. That case could be made if tSOU was some MSU-type team that typically doesn't stack up talent-wise with Michigan. But they're not. tOSU under Tressel (and to his credit) are a perennial talent powerhouse. In three of his five wins over Carr, Tressel's teams were clearly equal to or better than Michigan. Again, for many Buckeyes, winning isn't enough--energy and focus has to be spent on their opponent's losing. For a team with such great tradition, many tOSU fans have quite an inferiority complex.

Puddles: I too have imagined the prospect of seeing Troy Smith in the Honolulu blue and silver next year. But even after all the agony he's caused us, is it really humane to wish a fate so cruel, such as playing for the Lions, on him?

Let's say that the Wolverines go to Pasadena instead of Glendale. Then the Buckeyes absolutely destroy USC and Michigan wins in the Rose Bowl. It would be very possible that Michigan would end up #2 and USC #3. That's another way that Michigan ends #2.

I never said it wasn't close, fellas, but close wins can still be convincing ones, and I think that's what we saw Saturday. It appears to me that the question of who's better was definitively answered. That's all I'm saying. Of course, this notion that I need to "feel better" about this win is kind of crazy - I feel GREAT.

Now: about the potential rematch. I've asked this question a few times, and I'm still waiting for an answer - why should we have to beat you twice and you just have to beat us once to be the champs?Suppose we played and you won - what does that even mean? That we're equal?

The field was bad. But let's look at this from the traditional standpoint, running teams would prefer slower fields, while passing teams prefer a faster field as WRs are generally quicker than RBs. OSU was not looking to gain an advantage by having a bad field, if anything traditional wisdom would say poor field conditions would play to Michigan's strength, running the ball. What no one has mentioned yet is that in the week preceeding the game there was nearly 2" of rain in columbus, including .9" on the 15th and an additional .5" on the 16th. There's just no way to get rid of that much water that fast, especially with November temperatures.

If either UofF or Arky wins out, including the SECCG againt the other, Michigan won't be in Glendale. Michigan played it's last game of the regular season, meanwhile the teams down south still have 1 more big one each (Arky vs. LSU and UofF vs. FSU) plus their matchup in Hotlanta. Michigan's hope is that Arky, Florida, and SoCal each suffer another loss this season.

Maybe at this year's Big 10 football coach's banquet, Lloyd and Tressel can beat some sense into their Big 10 breathren to actually field varsity teams this year instead of their scout teams. Too bad for Michigan who may very well be the 2nd best team (or top team on a neutral field- who knows). BCS sucks.

Now: about the potential rematch. I've asked this question a few times, and I'm still waiting for an answer - why should we have to beat you twice and you just have to beat us once to be the champs?Suppose we played and you won - what does that even mean? That we're equal?

*******************************

That's inherent in any kind of post-season system, even one as half-assed as the BCS. I can already tell that y'all are going to have real problems getting the concept if the Buckeye basketball (that's the one without the points and where the game is played indoors on a wooden floor) pans out this season. If you don't believe me, just ask the 1985 Georgetown team that won three games out of four from Villanova.

Are you joking? You don't have to beat us twice. You don't have to win the first game: apparently you can also get to the BCS game through the backdoor. If Michigan can get to the BCS game through the backdoor, why can't OSU had they lost Saturday's game?

If Michigan ends up in Glendale (which I would absolutely hate), both Michigan and OSU only need to win ONE game to claim the national championship: THAT GAME.

That's a good point. If there were a rematch between Michigan and OSU in Glendale, and Michigan won, which would be awesome, I still don't think it would be fair for Michigan to have the nat'l championship all to itself. It would finish with the same record as OSU and split 1-1. On the other hand, OSU had the home team advantage. Aww fucking hell

To Anonymous Nov.20 @ 10:52: OSU beating USC in Glendale and UM beating whoever in Pasadena may get an OSU #1 UM #2 in the AP poll but not in the BCS. The BCS system mandates that the loser of the NC game be considered #2.

matsut, to answer the question, the entire reason the BCS exists is to create a matchup between the #1 and #2 teams in the country. Criticize the process if you must, but there is no consideration for what is "fair". If it is determined that the 2 best teams in the country play in the same conference, then that's how it is.

That said, I have mixed feelings. I honestly do believe UM is the #2 team. I've watched *a lot* of college football this season, and I don't think anyone else would have been able to keep up with OSU on Saturday. Florida? Horrible offense. Arkansas? One dimensional. USC? Narrowly beat weak opposition for 3 straight weeks before losing to an unranked team. ND? Has slow LBs and CBs with feet of stone, would get torched even worse than last year.

I'm fine with wherever UM ends up. If it's the Bucks again, fine. If it's the Rose, fine. I won't campaign or promote a rematch, but I don't think there's a better team out there.

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