POSTGAME NOTES: Puig, Dodgers drop Giants back to .500

There’s no shame in getting run over by Yasiel Puig, a force of nature at the moment who had Buster Posey mentioning the likes of Mike Trout and Bryce Harper. Puig is on an absurd run, but he wasn’t the problem tonight.

The Giants had eight hits and drew four walks against Hyun-Jin Ryu. They scored one run. It’s a trend against Ryu — the Giants have eight runs against him in three starts despite totaling 26 hits and six walks. It’s a trend in Giants losses, too.

The Giants were 4 for 32 with runners in scoring position while dropping three of four to the Marlins and they twice left the bases loaded tonight against Ryu.

The second failure came after Buster Posey slipped on the grass while rounding third. From the press box, it looked like Posey surely would score. Posey and Bochy felt the same way. It was an unlucky play, but don’t tell Madison Bumgarner that the Giants’ luck has turned after a run last postseason that included a stream of bizarre breaks.

Bumgarner spoke in a visiting clubhouse that all of a sudden hosted a fourth-place team, one that throws a rookie on the mound Tuesday night and faces Clayton Kershaw on Wednesday. The Giants have lost four of five and they lost Angel Pagan to the operating room on Monday and Chad Gaudin to the disabled list. They lost Joaquin Arias to a strained left hamstring, although the infielder believes he will just miss a couple of days.

How many more body blows can this group take?
“I hope we don’t have to take any more,” Bumgarner said. “It’s been a tough one so far. It seems like it can’t be this bad for us for too long. I think it’ll turn around.”

— The game story has the final word on Pagan and summarizes a busy day for the organization. It also includes this fact: This is the first time the Giants have been .500 or worse at the 76-game mark since 2008.

— I guess they were right about Puig. Bumgarner thought he had a good plan against the player who has seven homers in his first 20 games. He came inside with a cutter and then went further inside with a cutter. Then he threw a changeup to the outside corner. Puig lined it into the right field seats.

“That didn’t make much sense to me,” Bumgarner said. “I felt it was out there on the edge of the plate. You don’t see many guys do that.”

The National League hasn’t solved the riddle yet, but the Giants and the rest of the division will need to. The Dodgers have dealt with more injury problems than any team in the West but they’re still just four games behind the Giants in the loss column. They’re far from out of it.

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— Andres Torres’ issues in left field have largely been on easy plays. There was a line drive right at him that he flat-out missed, a grounder to left that bounced right past his leg, a ball that he held while Didi Gregorius took second. But the Giants haven’t wavered in their backing of Torres, publicly or privately. Bochy continued to insist that Torres was a good defender (a couple of defensive metrics tracked by FanGraphs backed that up, too), and the left fielder made a pair of great plays tonight.

— In the discussions I’ve had with Giant officials, it’s become clear that Bochy isn’t the only one who feels that the bullpen is the biggest problem area. The Giants will get Santiago Casilla back at the end of this road trip or at the beginning of the next homestand, and they expect Jeremy Affeldt to turn it around. That’s crucial, absolutely crucial, for this team. You’ve seen Bochy manage differently in recent days, starting with the decision to use Sergio Romo in the eighth inning on Saturday. Bochy sent Bumgarner out there for the eighth at 107 pitches. (For the record, I have no problem with that. Bumgarner was the best option at that point.)

“I knew he was getting close,” Bochy said. “But he’s our guy.”

The problem came when Bumgarner faltered. In the past, that Puig at-bat is certainly a spot for Casilla. In the past, maybe you just turn the entire eighth inning over to Affeldt. But Casilla isn’t available and it’s clear that Bochy isn’t comfortable throwing Affeldt back into those spots, which is why I’d be shocked if the Giants didn’t go out and add a right-handed reliever or two.

— There were injuries and then this loss, so it wasn’t going to be a great day for this organization regardless. And then the San Jose Giants got no-hit …

— Arias said he has had this issue (a mild strain) before and only missed a few days. He expects to be fine and Bochy said this isn’t considered a D.L. situation yet. Still, given how these situations have played out all season, Nick Noonan should probably wait a couple of days before unpacking in Fresno.

“In the discussions I’ve had with Giant officials, it’s become clear that Bochy isn’t the only one who feels that the bullpen is the biggest problem area.”

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Giantc

Of course Alex P. had no problems with any of
Bochy’s moves. Has he ever?

SurfCity

Giants used to live by their bullpen in the Good Ol’ days. Bochy looked extremely smart using all the might weapons they had in their relief corps. Whether you think he’s good at handling the bullpen, or not, he does not have the same killer pen that he has had in the past here.

dj

Boch and Sabean have been very lucky. Sure he is good manager but was he responsible for making Ross, Burrell, Huff, etc..into great players? Definitely not. Luck has been a big part since 2010 and now maybe the lucky charm is wearing off

dj

oh btw, Scutaro is hitting 60-70 points above his career avg, Is Boch feeding him good vitamins ?

pacman68

Baggs talking Brown and Hembree for Nolasco.

Would you guys give up Crick for Stanton? Not that would happen but I would love that.

The Oracle

This is definitely a frustrating run, but they’re still only 3.5 back. The bats are slumping, but the starting pitching is suddenly much better. Adding a starter who is not a pending free agent is a good idea no matter what, because they’re going to have holes to fill next year. Getting Casilla back and adding another competent big league reliever could make a huge difference.

I don’t know whether the Giants will end up tanking or not this season. Maybe they will, but I think their spirit and toughness will prevent that. In any event, panic and hysterics are ridiculous responses to what’s happening. What’s the worst thing that could happen? They finish last in the west, I guess. They would still have 2 WS wins in four years and a lot of talent on the roster for the future. That’s not so bad.

It’s part of being a fan to have opinions, offer criticisms and question managerial and front office decisions, but I laugh at the level of anger displayed by some here. If its that painful, why follow the team? I’m sure that a few are here because they’re pathetically seeking attention through trying to irritate the actual fans. But if you really are a fan, how about a little perspective? No one enjoys what’s happening right now, but there are worse things than being a fan of the defending WS champs who are just 3.5 back.

I’m entertained by the journey. I’m interested in seeing what happens, this season and into the future. We Giants fans have been pretty lucky lately. Maybe this isn’t the year, but that remains to be seen.

Foothills Brian

Poor pitch planning by Posey and Bumgarner. If there’s a weakness, you attack it. You don’t pitch towards the strength just to mix it up. Attack it until the hitter makes the adjustment. Posey and Bumgarner are supposed to know this. Brain lapse. Hope they learn their lesson.

Otherwise, good game by Bumgarner. It’s a team effort and the team ain’t got much going for it right now. Better luck tomorrow or by next week?

===

I’d say Baggs is talking out of his A. Sabes should not have to give up much to acquire Nolasco and pay the remainder of his salary.

Foothills Brian

Baseball Gods are capricious. One year they giveth, the next they taketh away.

It’s hard to repeat for a number of reasons. Baseball gods intervening from high above are a major culprit.

SurfCity

Great post, Oracle:

“but the starting pitching is suddenly much better.”

And how. I was even mildly encouraged by Lincecum’s pitching in his last start.

And I agree with you — a starter and a reliever could really jump-start this team. Not just for the value they bring individually, but for the carry-over (trickle-down, whatever your word choice). Every pitching position down the line will be strengthened, some will get some more rest, and a couple will leave the team.

Shore up the pitching, and the hitting will be good enough. That’s been the Giants winning formula, when they’ve won in the last few years.

chikentorta

this will be the bipolar giants year. Everyone will jump off the cliff when they sink a little lower, they will ride the euphoria of an opium addict on the random 20 game stretch, but like most years it will be viewed as whether the giants are buyers or sellers at the trade deadline. Not a bad place to be in, in late June. Yes, they look very mediocre. Yes they are very mediocre. But s little kink here and a little oil there and this is a world series team. Welcome to the world of no powerhouse teams. Where a mediocre bunch of over achievers can win 3 world series in 4 years. Yes. And you know it’s true.

Just wondering

Bum is the man. “Make your own luck” is exactly what they to try to do. More speed, more motion, more of something besides exactly what the opposition expects.

It’s called playing the game right, and a team that famously “outbaseballed” opponents has mysteriously declined to employ all facets of their game. No team . .. none … with this much speed and contact ability should be so helpless. But you have to try to make your own luck.

Doughnut

I really can’t fault Bochy for leaving Bumgarner in the game. How many games has our bullpen lost in the last week and a half that were tied. A bunch. The bullpen has been losing games for us, i don’t mind keeping our best pitcher out there instead of Sandy Rosario or whoever the heck would have to do it. In hindsight it didn’t work but in hindsight Just Wondering would bunt every at bat.

MLBSF

Well Marty was right about a couple of things on the postgame show:

#1. The Giants can’t let this get out of hand much longer. Yes, yes if we listen to The Oracle, we are only (in air quotes) 3.5 back.

However, it could be 8 or 9 very quickly by the 4th of July. Two more in L.A., three in Denver and four in Cincinnati. Yea, can you say disaster. I can.

Sabean will need to stop the bleeding before his normal later season deals because the Giants are digging a hole.

#2. Marty is right. Bochy has to stop going to the Kontos’s and the Machi’s and the Rosario’s and start using Romo and Lopez IMMEDIATELY to stop things before they get out of hand.

Now true, if you bring in Romo and Lopez to stop the bleeding, the offense may never score again anyway. So what’s the difference.

But that boneheaded move of pitching Kontos against Puig was unbelievable. Dude has some success against some crappy AAA hitters at Fresno and all of a sudden he is good enough to face the hottest hitter in all of baseball?

smh

MLBSF

I will critique Marty’s Show since I forgot yesterday and since he is doing postgame this week:

MARTY PREGAME USUALLY FROM THE PUBLIC HOUSE: A-

The only reason the show doesn’t get a straight A is because Marty let’s people go on and on and at times it’s excruciating. Plus the shows veers off topic.

But I can’t tell you the number of times Marty has talked me down from the ledge since about 2009. He is really my personal Dr. Phil. As much as I complain about the Giants, I am actually so much more mellow and patient with them than I was before we won the first world series.

I have completely bought into the Marty mantra of every season is a story with ups and downs and that’s just baseball (in Marty’s voice). He said the Giants had a chance to win it all in 2010 and I didn’t believe him. But I think back at everything he said throughout that summer when I listened every weekend and damn if he wasn’t right on about it all.

His point about just win in your division is hard for me to take because I hate losing period, but he’s right. Just take care of your division.

So point is I have this weird trust in him like he is going to make sure everything turns out okay for the Giants. (But he is starting to get worried, so so am I).

I will say all the talk about how people got their first glove and how people became baseball fans, and people going down memory lane about this player or that player……..good God make it stop. It bores me to tears. (I can name at least half a dozen people on this blog who I am sure love those long boring stories. smh).

And when Marty lets certain regulars who are morons ramble on, if you notice, Marty gets in little sarcastic digs at their personalities and reputations as callers. The can be very subtle comments, but I pick up on all of them and I laugh.

I have to say I love the show when it stays on topic about the Giants and how to improve the team.

Hopefully this glowing review doesn’t harm my reputation.

smh

ClutchUp

The heck with Marty.

What the Oracle wrote at 1230 is spot on.

Nice job O! The rest of the loser comments=find another team!

H-Boston

When I lived in the Bay Area,
I always used to think that Larry
Krueger of KNBR, thought he
was the Branch Rickey of Football,
and Marty(Lurie) thought he was
the Branch Rickey of Baseball. Both
are very knowledgeable about their
sports, but sometimes they push the
envelope.

Lance Newberry

Trade the Panda for some TOP pitching, and when/if Vogelsong comes back and does well then move both Tim & Gaudin to the ‘pen.

And maybe this has been discussed, but why does Bochy insist on having very slow runners batting 3rd?

I understand that Panda & Posey are their best hitters and the #3 hitter should generally be the teams best hitter and will at times get more ABs, but lumbering runners clog the bases and with Panda being so grossly obese especially this year and now with the slow-footed Posey, along with their sporadic hitting after #5 their station-to-station base running has hurt them often. We saw it again today.

I think Pence is the better overall player for #3 because he can run and would also get better pitches, with Posey 4th and Panda swinging at everything as usual hitting 5th.

But despite the significant hit the greater Bay Area food industry would take, trading Sandoval now (like RIGHT now before he gets hurt again – and again – and again) while his value is at it’s highest is really what needs to happen, to bring in the real top quality pitching they need and also to be rid of this amazingly talented but totally undisciplined child who will be gone after next season anyway.

GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

408svl

REPORT CARD: THE INEPTNESS OF THE GIANTS AND THEIR INABILITIES TO SCORE.
GRADE: C+

SIDE NOTE: MAD BUM SAID, ” I DON’T BELIEVE IN LUCK “. I BELIEVE IN CREATING YOUR OWN LUCK “. THE DUDE IS RIGHT. WHAT’S UP WITH ARIAS? IS HE HURT TOO NOW? GOOD. SO WE CAN KNOW WHAT MR. SABEAN WILL DO TO IMPROVE OUR BELOVED GIANTS BASEBALL TEAM.

totalfan62

The Oracle says: June 25th, 2013 at 12:30 am

——————————————————————-

+++ spot on assessment, sir.
———————————————————————

“It’s part of being a fan to have opinions, offer criticisms and question managerial and front office decisions, but I laugh at the level of anger displayed by some here. If it’s that painful, why follow the team? I’m sure that a few are here because they’re pathetically seeking attention through trying to irritate the actual fans….”

@MLBSF: are your ears burning? Should be.

totalfan62

The Oracle says: June 25th, 2013 at 12:30 am

——————————————————————-

+++ spot on a$$essment, sir.
———————————————————————

“It’s part of being a fan to have opinions, offer criticisms and question managerial and front office decisions, but I laugh at the level of anger displayed by some here. If it’s that painful, why follow the team? I’m sure that a few are here because they’re pathetically seeking attention through trying to irritate the actual fans….”

@MLBSF: are your ears burning? Should be.

E-B

mornin’ all.

The Oracle, June 25th, 2013 at 12:30 am, has spoken: + + +

totally agree w/ all points.

also believe that BP help will make a big difference.

today’s a new day, so rootin for r guys to spin a good one, and to remember to have some fun playin’ a game they luv.

3Kings

La vs san fran

THE BATTLE FOR THE CELLAR!

We suck

Hurry up football season, go niners

Pagan2Lanier

Living in New York is torture given the hype and rave reviews of Wheeler. It was a true fleecing especially given the constant whispers re: Beltran being a cancer in the Met’s clubhouse. In my opinion, it’s worse than Baby Bull for Sadecki given Wheeler’s age and upside!

Baggs went out of his wat today to say Nolasco is coming…..and soon. Then he went right in with Footy and threw Stanton in the deal….. Oh boy!

In my mind that has to include Crick…. and I might be there for Stanton.

Vote for Posey!

Foothills Brian

MLBSF,

Great review of Marty. Shaking my head it was so good. I appreciate your candor. Of course he’s not perfect (let Clutch and his Marty antipathy know this ), but he’s pretty darn good at what he does. Understand he was a good defender in the courts too.

Oracle’s post had a touch of Marty to it. It’s a journey, it’s a story, and sure they are in a dark place, but that’s when someone does something heroic, or better yet, the team bands together and plays good baseball.

It’s not over until the DBacks are pouring champagne on each others heads.

In the meantime, you know our boy Sabean (the guy on the phone above) is going to make something happen. Sure, he should have done more in the offseason, but let a brother enjoy the fruits of his labor and catch up on some rest. The time is now! What will he do? Who will return his phone calls? Who will be available at his price? Which prospects will he forsake?

I know the Zach Wheeler trade hurts, but imagine if you were the Angels. In the past few years, they have traded away Jean Segura (Greinke rental), Patrick Corbin and Tyler Skaggs (both for Dan Haren).

shaking your head?

The price of business is steep at the deadline. And that’s why it’s better, when payroll allows, to spend more $ up front in the offseason than to sit around and pay the premium rates later.

Could be time for Sabes to pay the piper sooner than later. Here we go again. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the game. Woooooo hooooooooooooo !

Matthew

Good morning all…. Another day and another chance. Ah, baseball.

I still disagree with Alex – either start the inning with Kontos or any right hander. Starting the 8th with MadBum was a predictable disaster.

Woj, yes, I am still glad Kontos is here. He was not the guy to be brought into that specific situation. He is an inning starter, not a firefighter.

Bochy seems out of ideas, and I think it is permeating the confidence level on this team. Perhaps a bit of an overstatement, but the whole crew seems shaken, including Bruce.

Oracles post was well written and I agree. I, for one, haven’t given up. I am beginning to worry about this season more than I have all year. But, these guys have pulled through strong in recent years, and they have a belief in themselves and their teammates…which mean much more than our paranoia out here.

TF62, when word spread in the dugout that you were going to bed, the wheels fell off. We really need you to stay up late tonight, so let us know if we need to talk Mrs. 62 to allow for an afternoon nap.

Foothills Brian

Stanton will never happen for the Giants. Not enough ummph in the farm system to come close. The Pirates could get that done and that would be a bold move. There’s some others that can pull it off too (like sending 2 top 50 prospects, and a couple 50-150 prospects). The Giants have one in the top 100 a few around 150 and beyond. Not enough quality to get it done.

But I think the Marlins will hang on to Stanton. They are not that far away. There’s is so much parity in the league that teams can rise and fall from year to year based on good or bad luck. So long as your team keeps stockpiling talent, they are going to be in the running, someday. Giants are moving in the wrong direction when it comes to amassing talent. Trades and questionable draft strategy will pull this team towards mediocrity in the coming seasons. At some point, they have to bring in talent outside of the June draft.

http://3renfrews@comcast.net robin

When was the last time the Giants secured the free agency of a Cuban Player? Have they ever? They might want to increase their scouting of those young players because the A’s and the Dodgers have never been happier with there recent moves. Puig makes a misplayed fly ball exciting.Could you imagine a young Giant outfielder with this kind of promise. When did the Giants have a five tool outfielder that they drafted and brought up through their farm system? I know someone will know but I would guess that Johnson was in office and gas cost 29 cents

hari

Giants will surrender finally and go under .500 – with all our DLs -
and who know before all is said and done, Dodgers are up there challenging D’Backs for top billing.

This season is going to be torture… and bit more of it…

Foothills Brian

“I still disagree with Alex – either start the inning with Kontos or any right hander. Starting the 8th with MadBum was a predictable disaster.”

It was only the beginning of a disaster when Posey called for the hittable dookey on the outer part of the plate to Punto. That pitch is a heck of lot more hittable than the cutter in on the hands. Pitch to the pitchers strength. Not away from it.

Mo P

Of course Alex doesn’t have a problem with anything. He doesn’t want to bite the hand that feeds him.

So the problem wasn’t Puig who single handedly beat the Giants yesterday. The majority of the post game comments from the media was to not let Puig beat them. Gee, just a day late are we? Puig is coming off a 3-11 series with 0 XBH and 0 RBI against the Pads. Looks like they know how to pitch to him.

Bochy and the entire organization thinks the pen is the problem. Guess what. It is cause and effect there. The starting staff put the pen in such a hole exhausting them by May that they have nothing left in June. The numbers prove this as the pen was #1 in the NL in May (for the season). The starters cooked the pen.

The offense isn’t doing so well, this might be a reach, but the offense was doing just fine when Posey is hitting cleanup. They’ve won two WS with Posey at cleanup. And everyone knows Pence is not a cleanup hitter. Not in Houston, Not in Philly, and certainly not in SF.

Mo P

There was a report floating yesterday that a rival GM that’s trying to pursue Nolasco fears that Sabean will outbid everyone.

Sweep upcoming. Baseball does sometimes have a cyclical nature. The Giants swept the Dodgers in May, so it looks like the Dodgers will return the favor. Kickham’s 15 ERA vs. Fife who has been pitching very well lately. And then Kershaw will finish the deal.

On to Colorado where Zito’s impressive road ERA takes on the Rockies.

Polioptila

Most people overcome their adolescent clumsiness as they leave their teens behind. The Busted Poseur, apparently not.

Mo P

A note about Pagan: He’s essentially done for the year. 12 weeks put you at the early-mid September, then comes conditioning, and of course rehab assignment…

Polioptila

“Puig is coming off a 3-11 series with 0 XBH and 0 RBI against the Pads.”

Actually, the Cuban homered off Jason Marquis in his first AB at San Diego.

Polioptila

“A note about Pagan: He’s essentially done for the year. 12 weeks put you at the early-mid September, then comes conditioning, and of course rehab assignment…”

But, in any event, his team won’t be playing again until spring 2014.

Mo P

Pagan2Lanier: Your problem is that you live in New York.

Wheeler’s 5 walks in his debut is a huge red flag. His 3.93 ERA in AAA ball isn’t eye-popping.

Sabean has dealt a ton of arms over the years… a ton. I can only think of four guys that did something. Aarsdma for a short stint, Nathan & Liriano obviously, and Grilli.

I’ve never had any pitching coach ever tell me offspeed pitches speeds up a hitters swing. Ever. Why? Because they don’t. Fastballs do. Maybe you can tell me why not?

Foothills Brian

Here’s the kind of work some of the potential starting pitcher trade targets have put up over their last 5 games. This list includes 4 Californians FWIW. Sabean has his work cut out for him.

IP , H, BBs, Ks, ERA
———————–
31.1, 30, 11, 21, 3.73 (Ricky Nolasco)

32, 32, 8, 28, 3.38 (Bud Norris)

33.1, 29, 7, 25, 4.32 (Matt Garza)

32.2, 24, 9, 25, 2.76 (Yovani Gallardo)

30.2, 30, 5, 17, 3.52 (Kyle Lohse)

Slide Dog

MLBSF, thanks for a fair review of Marty. When things get a little tiresome I try to keep in mind that he’s doing a live show, so the content is going to vary … a lot … in quality. But you have to admire that he keeps things clean, positive and relatively interesting. I like that he focuses on stories, how baseball affects people’s lives and the part baseball plays in American history. He’s also getting better at cutting short the dud callers, but he does attract some thoughtful calls that other shows don’t get.

My only complaint is about the sidekick, P-Con .. not much value add there. Who’d be better? Maybe a statistics wonk to flesh out Marty’s historical ramblings or maybe a female voice to bring a fresh perspective to the meaning of baseball. If Kate Scott’s a baseball fan …..

Mo P

Polioptila: Sorry, I thought it was a 3 game series… didn’t include Thursdays game.

Correction: 3-11 from Friday to Sunday.

Slide Dog

… or Lefty, Marty, give’er a call!

Mo P

Slide: Agree… pcon might be the second worst host at KNBR, behind Radnich.

The pen alone isn’t the problem, but an obvious sore spot. I just think this is not the year, too many mistakes over the years with free agents and $$ ill spent and not enough to have arms ready in minors. It’s mind boggling that we haven’t produced an outfielder since Jack Clark and keep picking smallish outfielders and infielders in the draft. Also the lack of attempt at guys like Cespedes and Puig is alarming. I guess guys who can hit the cover off the balls are over the giants brass heads.
Giants will most likely come in 3rd in division. Still have a nucleous for a few years but the pitching will need the year to regroup. Move Lincecum to pen because he will never be an all star starter again, however could be the pen stud we need to bulk up staff. Get a few arms a bar and try next year again from scratch.

I’ll skip the editorializing about the present front office’s inability to draft and develop outfield talent. The problem predates Sabean, but he certainly hasn’t rectified the issue.

Slide Dog

It’s not just one thing wrong with the G’s, it’s a combination of issues that tend to make each other worse. Like … your back goes out so you’re out of balance … causes hip strain so you limp along and damage your knee. Starters, relievers and lack of offense are kicking each other around in a circle.

Even after the back gets straightened out it takes a while for the other parts to heal up. Question is whether there’s enough time and willingness to acquire some ‘cure’ and get all the parts healthy. Good thing that the division is cooperating and no one’s running away with it.

Will the team spend the money and talent necessary to turn this thing around?

MLBFAN36

I really hope Giants do not trade for a starting pitcher. The Giants starters have pitched very well o late. Madbum has been madbum all season, Cain has pitched much better over his last 4 starts, Linceucm’s era in the month of june is in the 2.00′s and that’s over his last 4 starts, Zito will be Zito and we just have to see how 5th spot goes.

giantc

Clutch at 4:05 a.m. (may need more sleep) “Nice job O! The rest of the loser comments=find another team!”

Some take their fustrations out on Bochy (me) others rip the players (See Panda and Belt comments), and other take them out on other fans they perceive as overly negative.

I see that Clutch has defined the only proper way to be a fan is with a blindly love it or leave it mentality. I am fine with the eternal optimist being a fan — others may take a more pessimistic view at times and they certainly do not need to find a new team — ridiculous to say that only those with a pollyanna outlook on the team are real fans.

Ty

Kontos just looks bad. If his slider isn’t locked in he doesn’t have a plus pitch.

giantc

The Giants should not trade much for Nolasco who is an okay pitcher — although he has had great success AT&T. He is a rental and does nothing to solidify their rotation next year as he is a free agent.

Gamertude

Love the Pollyannas on here that sound like delusional Little League parents, “don’t worry little Johnny, we’ll get ‘em next time!” This is the worst this team has been since 2008 and it’s whack-o-mole type problems. Tons of injuries and when the team was hitting the starters were terrible, now the starters are coming around and the offense is terrible. Now the bullpen has fallen apart to the point where it’s even a debatable move that you put your 23 year old lefty back out after 107 pitches coming off back-to-back 200 IP seasons.

I don’t agree with those saying season’s over, pack it up and get ready for football but the Pollyannas need to pull their collective heads out of their rectums because I don’t know what team you’re watching. Giving up the farm for an expiring contract and mediocre pitcher in Nolasco is not the answer either. This loss was mostly on Brandon Crawford, those were two pitiful ABs when the team needed to produce a run the most, and yes Posey also needs to stay on his own two damn feet when running the bases.

giantc

Kontos was put in a ridiculous position — instead of letting him or Rosario face Punto and Ellis (average hitters), Bochy put him in his first game back with runners on first and third and no outs against the hottest hitter on the planet. Pretty tough to say come in and strike out Puig.

Sam

Stanton is 23, under team control with arbitration for 4 years after this season is done. It will take a minimum of 3 top end prospect to get him. Miami was willing to pay Nolasco 11.5 mil this year so Miami can hold on to Stanton for another 2 years for about 20-25 mil total and still deal him after 2015 and still get 2-3 top end prospects.

Af far as Nolasco goes, I read that he will be a 1 WAR player the rest of the way which is worth 5 mil. Nolasco has 6 mil remaining, so Miami should kick in money to get a better prosspect. Read that it would be a B- level prospect, along the lines of Brown or Panik.

giantc

I believe batters hit over .300 off of Bumgarner after 75-80 pitches. I saw that stat pop up on gameday the other day. If accurate he was not the best option as he had started to struggle with location the inning before. The bullpen very well might have done the job if they were not put into an impossible position.

TrainWreck

Over 30 years since the Giants have produced a quality big league outfielder with power, and just so you know, there’s absolutely NOTHING and NO ONE in their farm system who’s going to change that, or who’d be in any way attractive as trade bait. So no, Stanton ain’t coming.

Panda Puffs Are Delicious

The Giants need pitchers in 2014 and beyond. Nolasco already said he would love to play for SF. Giants should take on all the remainder of his contract so they can send a lower prospect and then sign him to an extension. Whether they need him now or next year they should do something to bring a guy who already seems willing to sign long term (my speculation) and pitchers well at AT&T

orangeandblack

Bullpen has been gassed since May. Interesting to see how Boche, Rags, and Gardner turn it around, because those late inning leads the Giants have coughed up mean they are not playing Giants ball and a .500 team.

Lefty

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Giants get Nolasco and sign him to an extension, and I think that would be a good move. With the exception of Kickham, Heston, and Surkamp, none of whom are expected to be the Giants’ best pitching prospects, none of the young pitching talent will be ready until 2015 at the earliest, I’d think. They need another pitcher for 2014.

As for Stanton, if the Marlins are willing to shop him now, they will get a premium package of top prospects. Not that I care what the Marlins do, but they absolutely should do that because I think there is NO chance they can retain Stanton long-term, and they are not going to be competitive between now and when he’s a free agent. They’re in a multi-year rebuilding phase. As we saw this weekend, they have a couple nice pieces in young pitchers like Turner and Eovaldi and in Ozuna. Add some blue-chip prospects, and they’ve got something for the future.

But it sounds like there are many teams that could offer the Marlins a better prospect package than the Giants can.

So back to Nolasco. I wonder if the Giants could also shake loose Justin Ruggiano while they’re making a deal. Ruggiano might not be too pricey, and he’s got a bit of pop. He could help in the outfield along with Blanco, Torres, and Perez this year.

SFG303

“The National League hasn’t solved the riddle yet, but the Giants and the rest of the division will need to.”

Since I’m out of market (Denver), I had to watch the ESPN feed last night. In the pregame, their guys were saying that the league was starting to figure out that Puig needs to be busted inside. So…..what’s the third pitch he sees? Outside breaking ball. BAM!

Great game plan, guys. Just fantastic.

avwh

Stanton is cheap and under the Marlins’ control for several more years. His value will only go up as he gets closer to FA. So I’d deal him later, not sooner, if I were the Marlins.

Marlins’ owner Jeffrey Loria would be committing PR suicide to deal Stanton this season, after the salary dumps they did this past offseason, making a PR fiasco out of the public funding of their new park.

Cannot see it happening, and in any event, we have nowhere near the prospects the Marlins would require to deal Stanton, IF they’d even entertain such a notion.

I’d bet Sabean eventually works the waiver wire for OF and bullpen help, probably deals soon for a starter and a reliever before the waiver wire gets active, and prays the Giants don’t fall out of contention in the meantime.

Foothills Brian

I saw boxes of Panda Puffs at Costco the other day and I actually thought of the commenter here. I did not purchase 2 LBs of puffs, but instead got a big bag of Muesli. Muesli is delicious.

This blog is full of angst. Not really much reading and responding. Just venting from their own agenda and pounding away at convenient meme.

So Panda Puffs,

Yes, the Giants need pitching now and ahead. Nolasco just feels kind of pedestrian. Sure he may have a nice track record at AT&T but the major issue with the rotation is that it goes from Cain and Bumgarner (who have been good but far from great) to 3 pedestrian wings that don’t eat up a whole lot of innings. Their best bet is an innings eater.

I posted 5 targets and their last 5 starts, but nary a comment, because there’s not a lot of reading and processing going on.

What’s the endgame for having Quiroz around? If Sanchez isn’t going to be dealt they need to cut bait with Quiroz and bring in someone who will be more useful. He hardly plays anyway and with Sanchez “rounding” into shape, is playing even less. If they insist on having a 3rd catcher around, they may as well bring up Monell. I guess he is not very good defensive at catcher, but he can also play some first base.

This team is desperately lacking a power batter off the bench. Monell is hitting .317/.380/.606 with 14 HR in 218 AB in Fresno. He hit .476 in the spring. Why not bring him up for Quiroz, even if its for 2 or 3 PH appearances a week.

Polioptila

Even though Zito has stepped up to be the No. 1 starter again, the rotation still has problems. It’s rare to find a credible No. 2 guy at this point in the season, but last night at Albuquerque a guy named Jonathan Sánchez stepped up to prove he’s just what the Gnats gneed. I’m not sure Sabean has enough to pry him loose from the Isotopes, but they do need a backup catcher and, if The Busted Poseur appears healthy after his clumsy spill last night and Sabes could throw in a AAAA position player like Brandi Clubfoot, that might work. Get it done, Sabes!

Lefty

avwh: I know he does…but you never really know how that will translate playing not only in AT & T but a lot of games in the NL West. I know the Marlins’ park is pretty spacious, too, but some of the other NL East parks are more hitter-friendly.

I saw Ruggiano’s name on a list of possible trade targets yesterday, and that got me thinking, especially after he hit two homers at AT & T on Sunday. He’s 31 and only broke into the majors last year. Making just about ML minimum. He could be a good add and maybe not too expensive(?).

Larry

Sabean shouldn’t have let Nolasco leave town last week. Who to trade him for? Pill can be in the mix, and Peguero.
Well, you don’t load the bags twice in a game, NOT SCORE, and expect to win. If Crawford can’t get a hit, put down a suicide squeeze bunt. And with the Giants unable to get a clutch hit, why not? On one of those loaded bags situations, Belt was on third. He can blow up a catcher. Yeah, too bad Posey fell down. It happens. and to the poster, dj, implying, like an East Coaster, that 2012 and 2010 were flukes: get stuffed!

Sam

BrAAAAndon Belt in the 8 hole last night.
Bochy realizes Belt is a AAAA player. You see what I did?

Polioptila

“Stanton is 23, under team control with arbitration for 4 years after this season is done. It will take a minimum of 3 top end prospect to get him.”

The problem is that Sabean doesn’t even much in the way of bench player prospects. The only way the Gnats get Stanton is through incriminating photos of Jeffrey Loria.

Polioptila

“BrAAAAndon Belt in the 8 hole last night.
Bochy realizes Belt is a AAAA player. You see what I did?”

Like Bochy, you have overrated BrAAndi Belt.

dj

@ Larry:

You think Scutaro is a fluke or Boch is feeding some real good vitamins?

Foothills Brian

I wholeheartedly agree with Marty Lurie when he says the Giants don’t need to be playing Fresno Grizzlies, they need to be playing major leaguers.

There’s just too big a jump from AAA to the bigs. A prospect better be kicking down the door for him to come up and contribute.

====

I’m with you Paul (thank you for RSVP btw -enjoy your sense of humor, you’re one of the best character’s on this island). He has good stuff. Averages about 92 FB. Garza close to 93 on average. Why the importance off stuff? It’s nice to have when hitters bats slow down in dog days of August.

====

Ruggiano seems a player the Fish should hold onto – along with Stanton. Like I said, they aren’t as far off as you think. Closer than Houston – who will also be good in a few.

So in other words, keep just about all the top pitchers in the minors and dump all the position players. I agree but this Offense is putrid right now on the Giants and it appears there is NO help in AAA or AA to rectify it.

I’m baffled at the draft selection of Arroyo and the other – singles and ducksnort slapper hitters. Add Arroyo to the long list of slappers percolating in the minors now. I guess SF brass simply looks at a 6’2 200lb and up power hitting young guys and says Nah, this guy is projected to hit > 10 HRs a year, he’s not our type of player and don’t draft him.

Foothills Brian

Ruggiano’s 31??

My bad. I thought he was young. Yeah, sell high on that guy.

Polioptila

“You think Scutaro is a fluke or Boch is feeding some real good vitamins?”

BALCO is still just down the Peninsula.

Woj

@Sam says:
June 25th, 2013 at 9:43 am
….Why not bring Monell up for Quiroz, even if its for 2 or 3 PH appearances a week.

Answer: Monell has HR power, Quiroz does not. Q is thus Sabean’s type of offensive player and Monell is not. Sabean seems averse to signing or promoting and ‘sticking with!!!’ call up guys with HR pop. Pill can hit a HR more than once a season but Pill struggles with the breaking stuff. So why not teach the man to hit breaking stuff and keep him on Giants. He can certainly rake on the fastballs.

Foothills Brian

I see Ruggiano had 13 Hrs and a .374 OBP last year. Only 298 OBP this year, with a K-rate over 25 %.

Mo P

Woj: When the entire country questions our draft, not just giants fans, you know it was bad. It would be like taking a punter with our first round pick!

Stratton is looking like a huge disappointment only in low A after playing college ball. Meanwhile Paco who shut down the giants yesterday was drafted last year. Wacha taken a pick before Stratton has also made the majors for a stint. We can’t even get our first rounder to San Jose!

Panda Puffs Are Delicious

Foothills I can’t believe you didn’t buy any Panda Puffs, your life would have been better for it.

On your list though I have personally been intrigued by Garza, I brought him up a month or so back and think he could be a decent fit for the Giants. Though Nolasco isn’t the most exciting name out there I am intrigued by a guy who says he WANTS to play here. Does that translate to performance, who knows, could be an interesting study. But I have to imagine it helps when coming to signing a contract and/or the “hometown discount”

I am also just holding on to the strongest of hopes that one of these Single A guys develops into a serviceable 2 or 3 guy in the rotation (Crick, Stratton, Agosta, Blackburn).

Mo P

Giants can’t develop bats. This much is certain. So they must acquire them.

For now, I actually think the offense is ok. Move Buster back to cleanup, Pablo up to the 3 hole…

With Pagan gone for the year, they’ll probably need a more consistent outfielder instead of three platoon players (Perez, Blanco, Torres)

Lastly… the pen has faltered yes, but last time I checked the starting staff is ranked 23rd in baseball out of 30 teams. The pen ranks 10th. The starting staff is the one that put the pen in this position in the first place. The starting staff is the one with three guys making 20 million each.

fan grapher

Yovani Gallardo is the best pitcher on that trade target list, but I don’t think the Giants have to pieces to get him either. Nor should they overpay for him. If Milwaukee sells, somebody is getting an ace caliber pitcher.

@Lefty

I saw Silver Linings Playbook and thought it was very good. I was not overwhelmed with Jennifer Lawrence’s work. Certainly not good enough for best actress. It must have been a down year in film for women. I was more impressed with Bradley Cooper’s work.

Mo P

Genius Pavlovic Question of the Day:

“How many more body blows can this group take?”

Awww wow is me… as if no other team is battling injuries. Just take a look at the last place Dodgers.

I didn’t ask the question, genius. — Alex

Foothills Brian

Speaking of Miami,

There is an article in Rolling Stone about Miami becoming apocalyptic in the not so distant future.

Who cares about the Giants, how about the human race?

SMH

In the meantime….

Go Pirates!

Anti-Lasorda

Guys,

I don’t personally think the G’s have the juice for Stanton, but this is one of the teams Beat reporters suggesting it. And the one that is at least 1/3 on the teams payroll (as opposed to Haft who is 100% on the teams payroll.) It something worthwhile to bring up.

Would you be willing to take some of the ‘untouchables’ like Crick and Agosta and lump them in a deal for AT LEAST 3 years of Stanton.

I think you should at least entertain it. As brought up by several members, the G’s have absolutely nothing resembling Stanton even in A ball nevermind at higher levels. Guys with Stanton’s characteristics are HUGE money and commitments to obtain in Free agency (see: Pujols, Albert / Hamilton, Josh / Fielder, Prince).

I think as a responsible GM, you would at least entertain it, and if that means making the ‘untouchable’, touchable, then you do it.

And if your willing to make the untouchable, touchable, are they really untouchable?

Everyone has a price. You just have to decide what yours is.

Reminds me of the old joke:

Man: “I have a question for you, would you sleep with Brad Pitt for a million dollars?”

Woman: “For Brad Pitt, I would sleep with him for $5!”

Man: “Okay, now that we have established what your are, all we need to do is negotiate a price……”

Matthew

Footy, you bailed on the Nats and went Pirates awfully fast…are you now actually Foothills Brian Giles?

avwh

“Giants can’t develop bats. This much is certain. So they must acquire them.”

Mo P:
Posey, Crawford, Belt, and Panda are all bats the Giants drafted and developed.

What we’re lacking is developing any OF bats with pop. Haven’t had a homegrown OF bat with pop (who also was an everyday player b/c he hit enough for average, too) since Chili Davis, I think.

Think of all the busts who passed through the Giants’ OF since (many were high draft picks, too): Ted Wood, Armando Rios, John Bowker, Dante Powell, Calvin Murray, Todd Linden, Tony Torcato, Dan Ortmeier, Darren Ford – not one of them could earn/keep a starting job, and most were more speed than power types.

Anti-Lasorda

If not us I’m rooting for Pittsburgh….

But let me add, the Nats have a better team if they ever hit a lick. I’m surprised the hitting coach hasn’t been canned yet. Or maybe even Davey to fire up the troops.

No bigger disappoint then the way they are playing.

Matthew

A lot of pitchers named on here…one I haven’t seen mention of …yes, diva alert, but still….Cole Hamels. any interest by all of you Fake GM’s?

Gamertude

Note to all those on here suggesting a trade for Stanton: The Giants DO NOT have the prospects to deal for him. They could offer the Marlins their entire farm system and that is not enough to get him.

He is a dynamic power bat under team control, the Marlins can virtually get any package they want from any organization, and ANY package from the Giants, one of the WORST farm systems in baseball is not enough, period.

So enough with the Stanton bantering, get a grip on reality, move on and hope this team improves in other areas.

Anti-Lasorda

From Jayson Stark on the world wide losers speaking on Miami as sellers:

Can we cool the Giancarlo Stanton chatter, at least for a while? Officials of three different teams that drool over Stanton have told us, in the past week, they’re convinced Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria has decided this isn’t the time to deal him. “I don’t think they’re going to trade him,” an AL exec said. “I think Jeffrey is totally dug in on that. They control him for three years. They like the young players they’ve got coming. I don’t think there’s any chance they trade him. Not this summer. Not this winter. Maybe ever.” Well, we don’t know about “ever.” But for now, readjust your trade-vision goggles and get back to those Nolasco, Mike Dunn and Juan Pierre rumors.

pacman68

Do all that don’t want another starter. You are wrong. Getting another starter enable Gaudin or Timmy to move to the pen.

Let’s say we get Nolasco … that gives instant relief to the bullpen. Now our rotation is

Cain
Madbum
Nolasco
Timmy
Zito

When Volgie comes back. He can move to the pen and get his chops back. And remember Casilla is coming back. Now the bullpen is

Clubs with starting pitchers to deal report the Giants have taken on a whole new fervor in the last week in their hunt for another starter. With their rotation down to 22nd in the big leagues in quality starts, with Barry Zito and Tim Lincecum scuffling and with Ryan Vogelsong still about a month away from exiting the disabled list, the Giants have told clubs they’re not waiting until the deadline to deal for a starter if something presents itself sooner. So any rumors that erupt connecting them with Nolasco, Garza and Feldman make total sense.

Foothills Brian

Good Fake GM’s are well aware that Hamels just signed a Cainian contract.

Matty, if you not with A-L and I, you’re against us (and he’s pushing 3 bills and I throw 75+). If the Giants ship sinks, hop aboard the pirate vessel. Plenty of citrus aboard, so no worries about scurvy.

I’m amazed that Nats haven’t put together a run yet. They throw Strasburg, Gonzalez and Zimmerman at you. They have to have a run in them. I suppose the Giants do too, but they need more help.

Polioptila

“Posey, Crawford, Belt, and Panda are all bats the Giants drafted and developed.”

Since when has anybody called Brandi Belt or Brandi Clubfoot “a bat?” The other two are a little better, but likely to have short careers because they’re injury prone or for other health reasons (i.e, morbid obesity, leading to hear disease and/or diabetes).

Mo P

Yeah, Brandon Belt will be a bat, but hasn’t been yet.

I’m forgetting what year and round the Giants “drafted” Pablo Sandoval… I can’t seem to find him on draft lists…

Crawford wasn’t a bat they developed. He was a sensational fielder…

So basically it’s just the 5th pick in the draft Buster Posey… over the last what… 30 years? Or since Matt Williams?

I still grazed 72 with the FB last time out. I was mighty proud of myself. In my prime I only hit 81 with the wind blowing in.

I guess having the extra mass help the old velocity a little.

Threw most of the BP around 63-65. Went 50 pitches… paid for it for 3 days.

Soooooo worth it.

Mo P

pacman: I don’t know many who don’t think they need a starter. I thought they needed a starter in the off-season…

Liriano was cheap… Lohse was not.

Anti-Lasorda

Dr Lefty and I were on Liriano last offseason, he wanted a rotation spot and there wasn’t one here.

dj

Bochy has been careful when to play Belt. He looks at matchups, type of arms on particular days etc….If Belt plays everyday, he will struggle, intermittent starts help mask the holes. Do you really believe Bochy is that stupid with the offense can’t score more than 1 run at a time? Sabean has not given up yet bcuz they have nothing in A, AA or AAA. Belt can pick, better than avg but the bat is suspect. He is like many big dudes passing thru the farm in the past, look good on paper, imposing size etc…but can’t hack it on daily basis. They all look the same, btw. Sabean is hooked on his types.

Lefty

fan grapher says:
June 25th, 2013 at 10:09 am

Lefty

I saw Silver Linings Playbook and thought it was very good. I was not overwhelmed with Jennifer Lawrence’s work. Certainly not good enough for best actress. It must have been a down year in film for women. I was more impressed with Bradley Cooper’s work.
———-
I was very impressed with Bradley Cooper, and I wonder if “anti-Hangover snobbery” scuttled him. I thought he was just terrific in SLP. Also loved Hugh Jackman as Valjean. It wasn’t surprising that Daniel Day-Lewis won for “Lincoln,” but that was kind of a yawner pick for me–Day-Lewis had already won two Oscars, and probably anyone who played that role would have been a favorite.

As for Best Actress, many thought Jessica Chastain should have won for “Zero Dark Thirty,” and she was very good–there was some political backlash against that movie that seemed to harm the chances of people involved with it, including the director, Kathryn Bigelow.
——————–

Foothills Brian

I wouldn’t mind getting gunned, A-L.

My catcher told me a few years back I was throwing low 80′s and occasionally touching 85. I think the gun in his mind was hot, but I was definitely able to pop the mitt harder. I guess I’m sort of hoping I can at least touch 80 sometime this summer. My catcher said I’m probably mid to upper 70′s. BP if it’s straight.

but who cares about heat. It’s all about location and movement. And a changeup that has them coming out of their shoes.

Matthew

Footy, I am against you… As a wee lad, Bob Robertson broke my heart in 1971… I was sure Juan, Tito and the Willie’s were headed to the World Series until that oaf somehow found a way to crush us… I mean, he had the dance moves of Randy Elliott…?

So, I cannot find it within myself to root for the Buccos, pal.

Giants or bust. period.

avwh

Crawford has the 5th-best OPS at SS in the NL. Yes, he was drafted as a glove, but wouldn’t you have to admit (last night aside, failing twice with the bases loaded) his bat has been a pleasant surprise this season and much stronger than expected? And 250+ ABs into the season, it’s almost certainly not a fluke.

If we’re going to trash the front office and/or the team for its shortcomings and mistakes, surely we can give them some credit for the upside that’s materialized, too?

avwh

Lefty & FG:

Jennifer Lawrence’s range required in Silver Linings was extremely limited, IMO; she essentially played a sullen teenager widow who was anti-social.
Not a Best Actress role or performance.

But then, I didn’t like that movie as much as almost all critics – thought it was very emotionally manipulative and had plot holes you could drive several trucks through.

Matthew

avwh, you must be lost…this is the Land Of Extremes here… No logic is used when hammering home points.

Mo P

Am I the only one here that thinks the giants acquiring Stanton is a pipe dream???

Who’s next Mike Trout?

avwh

Mo P:

No, if you’ve read some if not most of the posts here, you’d see there are several of us pointing out Stanton isn’t likely going anywhere for a few years. And if he were, the Giants don’t have anywhere near the prospects it would take to even be in the hunt.

Anti-Lasorda

See I’m too young to have the hate Pirates: Matthew.

I remember Parker, Stargell, Sanguillen and the Sister Sledge Buccos. My Little League team that year was the Pirates down to the old school 1890s hats. I even started throwing submarine style trying to be like Kent Tekulve much to my fathers Chagrin. I didn’t have the true back door break on it till I was 11 or so.

Bucco roots back there, and hey at least they have one of the colors right and I could not stand the Orioles who they slayed in that World Series! I hated Jim Palmer prancing around in his underwear on TV, and I had plenty of fellow haters of the O’s growing up in Anaheim in 1979.

The only team I hated more in 1979 was the Dodgers, with that fat pig Lasorda slurping down his Linguine in Clam sauce and telling me how much I had to love Steve Garvey. Guess what Tommy, I hate Steve Garvey, and I don’t care for you much either!

Herbs Cane

I’m not sure Crawfords fingers have healed to grip bat.

Any updates?

giantsfan2

MO P: Sandoval was not drafted, was signed as a F/A out of Velenzuela when he was 16?

I realize that I am not a GM, scout, manager, etc. Just a fan of 45 years.

But this team is going nowhere unless Sabean brings in a decent starter (Gallardo) a decent set-up man (KRod) and a LF with some pop. He can get two of those from the Brewers. The problem is that the Giants have no one at AAA, AA that anybody wants. No one from the current roster, unless it is Posey or Panda, Cain or MadBum. They have some pitching talent in Hembree, Crick and some of the lower minors. They cannot seem to draft decent position players (Posey was not developed, same as Lincecum) They were already studs in College. They need to reinvest and give attention to the draft and develop position players in the minors.

giantc

Giants OF’s taken in the first round and/or supplemental first round since Gary Mathews in 1968 (last good OF drafted in first round):

Now the odds are that most draft picks will not hit, but this is an amazing run spanning several GMs of not hitting on OF prospects.

I still have some hope for Brown — his power is getting better and he is a notorious slow starter.

Anti-Lasorda

Given the events of the past year, am I the only one who thinks Carnival Cruise Lines need to sponsor the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum?

Keep’n It Real

This team needs a injection of energy from somewhere. I can see why they might hold off on Hembree (if they think they’re trading him), but is it time to give Gary Brown a look? I honestly think more runs would make the pitching look/feel better…especially as we start getting guys back from injury.

Peter

Cubs released Carlos Marmol today……let’s see how desperate the Giants are.

Gooser

Thinking outside of the box here, or maybe it is always seeing the glass half full. If the Giants keep losing, it might not be such a bad thing. Many here keep mentioning the lack of talent in our farm system. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if they were sellers at the deadline rather than buyers. Restock the farm a little. The Giants have a few relievers, a couple of starting pitchers, and a RF whose contract is up that we could sell.

To me the worst case senerio is if the Giants, with all those injuries continue around .500 with nobody running away with the race. Then you get another Wheeler trade and still finish out of it.

Now if they get on another roll and start playing good baseball again, then by all means become buyers. But only if they are getting healthy and the pen becomes trusted again. I am hopeful that they will let the situation play out before deciding how to move.

Sam

@LOLKNBRCallers: BREAKING: Salty Balty in Clovis has moved to Sacramento. Henceforth, he shall be known as “Salty Sac.”

Kyle Perizi

A – L @115 :

Tommy Lasorda is a male human being and has never ever been a , ” Fat pig.”

I’ve done my research on this matter and feel that my statement is 100% accurate .

Foothills Brian

Salty Sac !!

Brilliance! Salty and The Dawg have become Giants icons. Salty less so, but still.

Gooser,

That about paints the picture. Nice.

avwh

They showed Lasorda behind home plate last night on the TV broadcast – he’s gotten big as a house again. Just wish I could see Panda and Tommy side by side to see who has the bigger boiler [insert moderated smiley here].

http://www.na.com orngendblck

The Giants may need to regroup instead of trying to make the big trade this July. Some of the other teams in the NL have passed them by in terms of talent and every team seems to be very determined to win when they play the Giants.

While the bullpen could use some help, the starters have not been as dependable on the road as they have been in the past 3 years. There is no shame in planning for next year and beyond instead of going all out to repeat this year. Sometimes stuff just happens.

It does not look like a wild card team will come from the NL West so there are 4 teams playing for 1 spot. It might make more sense to punt on this year and prepare for next year.

CAB

Gooser- i completely agree. Let’s see this season for what it is. In 2012 and 2010 we hit the no injury jackpot + players exceeding expectations. 2011 and 2013 have been completely different. In fact, the worst move the Giants brass has made in the last 3 years was selling Zach Wheeler for Beltran. We should have seen the writing on wall at the time, and i hope management sees it this time. Time to sell off some pieces and re-stock if we can. Not deplete an already depleted farm system so that we can win 83 games instead of 81 games.

pacman68

Lefty.

I thought Silver Lining Playbook was the best movie from last year. And I totally agree with you about Lawrence. Cooper stole the show in my book. Go watch Lawrence in Winters Bone. She was outstanding.

Polioptila

“The only team I hated more in 1979 was the Dodgers, with that fat pig Lasorda slurping down his Linguine in Clam sauce and telling me how much I had to love Steve Garvey. Guess what Tommy, I hate Steve Garvey, and I don’t care for you much either!”

Somebody here has miscategorized his envy as “hate.”

Woj

I thought it was comical that Arroyo was publicly stating he was ‘considering’ going to college and foregoing the 1st round $1.8M signing bonus. Considering he was drafted several rounds early by just about website and mag. that covers MLB, the G’s did him a favor by drafting him so early and I knew this guy would sign.

Several websites called the Giants ’13 draft one of the 5 worst in MLB. Disappointing in that the ’13 season has uncovered gaping holesin the bullpen, starting pitching and the continued weakness with power hitters. And FA power guys don’t want to sign with SF due to the AT&T difficulties.

I just look at Arroyo’s bio and stats and think the best upside he’ll ever be is a less than Crawford who is coming into his own. Crawford to me has SS nailed down for 5 years why draft his potential backup now? The team needs power hitters in the worst way and they drafted a skinny utility IF in the 1st round and a pitcher in the 2nd round.

Polioptila

“Several websites called the Giants ’13 draft one of the 5 worst in MLB.”

And they were being charitable.

ClutchUp

UCLA is one win away. Plays Will Clarks Mississippi State in game two today in Omaha NEB.

@Gooser-
… If the Giants keep losing, it might not be such a bad thing. Many here keep mentioning the lack of talent in our farm system. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if they were sellers at the deadline rather than buyers. Restock the farm a little.

Well said. That’s not going to sell Panda and Giraffe hats and may indeed end the sellout streak in September and personally doesn’t make me happy b/c I’m on the hook for a NYC trip already to likely watch glorified exhibition games vs. Mets and Yanks but it makes sense.

Pence is not a $20M / year guy IMO. He’s a 10-13M/yr. guy over 3 years and if he doesn’t want that then its’ best to trade him in mid season to get some good prospects back especially power hitters or starting pitchers. I’m about done with Affeldt too – trade him for prospects and Lopez is too specialized and expensive potentially for a .500 or worse team that .13 SF is. Recent drafts have not panned out and a serious influx of top end talent is needed in the farm system.

Trying to turn lemons into lemonade here with the ~.500 team the 2013 Giants are.
There is so many holes it’s hard to know where to start plugging them.

avwh

On twitter:

tweet to Henry Schulman: “any chance the Giants make a move on Marmol?” (who was DFA’d by the Cubs today)
Schulman: “You mean, with a weapon?”

[insert moderated double smiley face here]

avwh

CU:
I still don’t trust it. We were told that once before, then posts got moderated again.

Besides, I want the NSA to have to work at reading my posts, not give them the shortcuts.

ClutchUp

From last year June 25th – Heh Heh – Same kind of HeebeeJeebees thought process of injuries, overwork, lack of hitting.

40,000 a night and $10 beers says it won’t happen. Two world series have generated some lofty expectations and put an immense amount of pressure on the front office to, at the very least, create the perception of a winner. If the Giants did “secretly” become sellers this season, they would never publicly admit it, and they would never make trades that would tell their fans “not this season, guys”.

pacman68

Woj

Giants could trade the following.

Timmy – not coming back. He’s going to Seattle.
Lopez – He would be a great chip for someone needing a lefty specialist.
Jeremy – See above
Brown – What’s this guy like 45 now? Get rid of him and get something while you still can.
Pence – Get some prospects back.

You sell all of those and rebuild the farm system.

Woj

Thunderskull -
Most of those tickets are already purchased and more woeful performances at home like against Marlins may sell more $10 beers not less. Besides SF Fans are loony at times for the promotions and giveaways even though dynamic ticket prices are jacked up for those games so in essence you are buying your freebie.

pacman68

Anyone who doesn’t think that Lincecum would be a hot commodity with a playoff team. Doesn’t really know baseball. Teams will want him bad.

Woj

Yeah, Timmy is untradeable. He’s a FA in 2014, he’s expensive as heck as a half year 2013 bullpen rental, & he’s a below avg. starting pitcher with a high pitch count and reduced gate draw due to that stubborn ~4.5 – 5 ERA.

Mo P

Gooser & CAB: I threw out a random question about a month ago to Hank asking if there was ANY circumstance in which the Giants would be sellers at the deadline. He said NO… then five monkeys that follow him laughed/ridiculed/name called…

I guess my questions to Hank have been enough for him to “block” me… maybe I should go to my room and cry…

I don’t think the Giants will be sellers, even though, this might be the best year to do so.

It’s baseball and anything can happen, but I’ll be rational. I don’t see the giants winning a single game in LA. Kickham won’t go long, and that means our weak pen gets to pitch most of today. Which weakens them tomorrow. Also Fife has been pretty darn good lately. That leaves it up to Kershaw to finish us off. Zito at Colorado scares me, so we are left with Bumgarner/Cain in Colorado to help salvage this road trip.

If the Giants can’t beat the worst Marlins and the last Dodgers, how will they fare against AVG Colorado and Superior Cincinnati?

Mo P

pacman: I’m having this same argument on twitter. At this point in the year, you have at least have an idea on what you are planning to do with Zito, Tim, and Pence. Logic suggests you keep Pence, and maybe lose one or both of the other two.

So lose Tim for nothing or get something for him. The Giants traded Conor Gillespie for crying out loud… they got something for him.

It doesn’t have to be Wil Myers or Oscar Taveras… CJ Cron in LA would be nice.

Foothills Brian

Sabean could definitely get calls on Lincecum. 2 WS rings: one as a starter, one as a super reliever. A team making a push would offer better prospects if money was scarce.

Sandoval and Pence could fetch calls. But people would be calling on these Giants if they were playing well. And if they were playing well, chances are the Giants would not be selling on them because they’d still be in the hunt.

So it’s really hard to see the Giants selling.

Buying? Yes. Something is in the works. There talking, not necessarily negotiating. It’s a process. The predictable pick is Ricky Nolasco.

I’m going to offer another predictable Sabean pickup:

David DeJesus.

giantc

Dejesus — just sprained his shoulder, is on the DL, getting an MRI and he is not better than what they already have. I would say no thanks.

giantc

Schierholtz is mostly playing against righties but he has a higher OPS than anyone on the Giants and would be second in homers.

I am not a big fan of his game and his numbers are much better at home. I am surprised though that he has an OPS over .900 in 200+ ABs.

channelclemente

I’d never really noticed how many ex-Giants are in that dugout. At times, they outnumber the players. Maybe a little less ‘old days’, and little more tomorrow would be a good move.

Pacman 68

Dodgers making hard push for Marlins pitcher. They don’t want Pads or us to get him.

DPassovoy

Is this what Boston felt like after winning 2 WS?

This is what being cheap gets the fans- no room for injures. Don’t give me top 10 pay roll or the mortage. You have to spend to get good back ups, guys that could start elsewhere have to be compensated to sit on the bench.

Being cheap means not taking chances like Piug, Solares, Cespedes, because the team scouts have found guys like Torres, Blanco, and Arias, relatively cheap decent players.

Good luck selling any of this team for anything worthwhile. Lopez really? He only pitches to lefties. Timmy? Right, is there an knucklehead out there that would give someone of potential?

The only gamble Sabean got right this year is Romo, cause there aren’t going to be many save situations.

ClutchUp

avwh says: June 25th, 2013 at 12:39 pm 136..CU:I still don’t trust it. We were told that once before, then posts got moderated again.

*** I/we all still get moderated with double ss’s after the letter a, although I typed a$$igned the other day w/out the dollar signs and it went through.

The Umpire named Cliff Faygan still gets 86′d and last I looked the Cy Young Winner from the Jays via the Mets still falls into the filter.

The IT department isn’t necessarily undermanned, it’s not staffed at all during various hours of the day.

San Jose Mercury News’s Mac Tully has left for Denver and Steve Rossi is now filling Tully’s duties.

srossi @ mercurynews . com

Randall Keith is responsible for all digital news content found on mobile apps and websites.

IMO, the way you beat Puig is the 2 seam, and cut FB. If someone dredged up his minor league results, he wasn’t superman there.

Herbs Cane

DPassovoy says:
June 25th, 2013 at 1:50 pm
Is this what Boston felt like after winning 2 WS?

This is what being cheap gets the fans- no room for injures. Don’t give me top 10 pay roll or the mortage. You have to spend to get good back ups, guys that could start elsewhere have to be compensated to sit on the bench.

“Yeah, Timmy is untradeable. He’s a FA in 2014, he’s expensive as heck as a half year 2013 bullpen rental, & he’s a below avg. starting pitcher with a high pitch count and reduced gate draw due to that stubborn ~4.5 – 5 ERA.”

Damaged goods due to unsustainable delivery, a light that briefly burned brightly is fast fizzling out.

Polioptila

“IMO, the way you beat Puig is the 2 seam, and cut FB. If someone dredged up his minor league results, he wasn’t superman there.”

Probably the best way to beat him is to have good starting pitchers and Mariano Rivera in the ‘pen, but the Gnats have gneither.

Coaches and staff members of NCAA Division I sports teams will not be able to scout future opponents in person following a vote of NCAA membership.

The ban had been voted in by the NCAA Division I Board of Directors in January, but it was subject to an override vote. The NCAA reported that 154 of 375 (55.2%) schools and conferences voted to override the ban on live scouting, short of the needed 62.5% majority for an overturn.

The cessation of live scouting originally came out of the organization’s Rules Working Group, which had cited improved technology as a reason for a reduced need for live scouting. Coaches still will be allowed to scout future opponents live if they are competing at the same site in a tournament or doubleheader setting, such as those that occur early in the college basketball season each year.

The legislation was one of the only aspects of a large deregulation package was adopted in January that actually introduced regulation. The majority of the package will go into effect Aug. 1.

Polioptila

¿Verdad que Panza está embarazado?

Keep’n It Real

Someone mentioned it earlier, but twitter is blowing up that the Dodgers are going hard after Nolasco.

The Oracle

I’m not completely sold on Nolasco. He’s pitching pretty well this season, but his numbers for the prior few years are very Zito-esque. For me, it depends on the cost. Of all the starters being discussed, I like Garza the best, but he’s a pending free agent, so no.

H-Boston

The Belt haters are starting
to come out of the woodwork
again!, for a fifth round draft choice
who’s getting paid chump change,
I don’t understand it, Zito and Lincicum
are both making around 20 mill each,
with north of 4.0 era’s come on!

What’s the medical prognosis on Jake Peavy? I think someone said around the A-S break? He would be a GREAT fit for this pitching staff, IMHO, and he’s under contract through next year. Good old southern boy who would fit right in with Cainer and MadBum, proven veteran pitcher who would step right into the #3-#4 spot next year and give us a good bridge to the young guns, ETA 2015.

H-Boston

I meant 3years/12,000,000

totalfan62

Clutch: thanks for the 411 on Passavoy. Just reading his bio makes me puke–SoCal all the way. Explains the attitude.

The Oracle

My mistake…I thought I’d been reading here all along that Nolasco was signed beyond this season. Now I’m reading he’s going to be a FA after this year. If that’s the case, he’d better be very cheap. There are better rentals.

ClutchUp

Doughnut says: June 24th, 2013 at 10:43 pm
Two bad pitches called. The pitch to Puig obviously. But I didn’t like the pitch they went with to Punto at all. A new hitter off the bench and you speed his bat up with an off speed pitch. He likes to go the other way and you try and throw a strike with the curve there? I just think sometimes Buster is over thinking it. Pound his weakness. He can’t touch bum’s cutter. Almost nobody squares up Bum and you give them a chance when you throw that to a cold player off the bench.
________________

The Nose Knows says: June 24th, 2013 at 10:44 pm
Uh, no…you slow the bat down with off speed and speed it up with fastballs.
________________________

ClutchUp says: June 24th, 2013 at 11:17 pm
1044 nose knows your statement is 100 percent false. You feed a hitters swing when you throw an off speed pitch rather than a fast ball. Never throw a hitter an off speed pitch who can’t hit a fast ball. “It speeds up his swing”
________________________

The Nose Knows says: June 24th, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Cu…you’re so very wrong…throwing off speed slows the swing. So on 2 strikes for example, the most effective pitch is the inside fastball. Hitter is already cutting down his swing and you don’t feed breaking ball to him because it’s pitching to his swing. You have a little league mentality if you think otherwise.
__________________________

The Nose Knows says: June 24th, 2013 at 11:24 pm …and whoever is talking about throwing a breaking ball to someone who can’t hit a fastball? You’re creating a false argument.
_____________________

ClutchUp says: June 24th, 2013 at 11:25 pm Not going to argue with you. Ask some baseball people. You are incorrect by a large margin!
____________________

The Nose Knows says: June 25th, 2013 at 7:33 am “….CU, you don’t make sense and here’s why:

Let’s say you start a hitter with a fastball and by his swing, he cant catch up to it. I, as the pitcher, am thinking I’ll throw him another. So the next pitch he fouls off to the opposite field. He’s catching up but still way behind. Then the next pitch he fouls it straight back. HMMM. He’s on it. The next pitch, fouled deep to the pull side. You think he’s catching up to me by speeding up his swing as I continue to feed him 92 mph fastballs? So maybe I should throw something off speed? In other words, in this very elementary example, it’s clear that throwing fastballs speeds up a hitters swing, does it not? Breaking balls do the opposite so that if I have a 2 strike count on the hitter who might be thinking to cut down on his swing, why would an off-speed pitch (again, generalities here), be the best pitch? Why slow it down? And you have to be quicker as a hitter to hit the inside fastball than outside. Right? So therefore, the best pitch in that situation is an inside fastball. I’m not speaking in any strategic way. I’m simply speaking to the one point that Doughnut-hole mentioned about what pitches speed up or slow down a hitters swing.

________

OK – The Nose Knows: Here is my last attempt to bridge the gap between the fact that you disagreed with Doughnut and then I regarding what I am now going to call a “Baseball expression” that has been around since the beginning of time.

When I played Babe Ruth through College and then later coached at the same level – all my tutors or mentors in both playing and coaching used the expression “Don’t’ speed up his bat”.

So it’s possible I am using it “counter to what you are saying” which is OKAY.

However I called my JUCO baseball coach who is in the college HOF to see what was the real deal. He sent me an old article from the Tampa Rays organization. (Personally I love Joe Maddon and Clint Hurdle and a lot of current Skippers are ex catchers)

Somewhere in this article a Bobby Ramos the Rays catcher uses an expression that I’ve heard all my life around my experiences in baseball. I also heard them in Foster City Baseball camps put on by Rob Andrews, Bill Laskey, Terry Whitfield, Kirt Manwaring and current Giant catching coach Billy Hayes.

Ramos goes on to say: “You really got to know your stuff. If a guy’s late on a fastball, don’t speed up his bat with an off-speed pitch. If he’s chasing curveballs, (throw) lower and lower, wider and wider. And hitters make adjustments. So you got to pick up on that.”

Those on this site that have played: Anti-Lasorda and Matthew probably know what I meant when I said: “Don’t ‘feed’ his swing” – “Don’t Speed Up his Bat” It’s OK if that expression means something different to you, I don’t mind that it does, but in the Universal World of baseball, many use it and many know what it means and ALL it really means is: If any hitter at any level can’t handle VELO – don’t do him a favor and feed his swing by throwing him something less velo that he can then “get to”. Some sub tier hitters see a non-fast ball and that “becomes” their fast ball in a sense.

Hank: Let’s be clear the name calling started on yours and Alex’s part. I won’t bring the “quote’s” up. If you can’t effectively reply with an educated comment, then just say so, no need for name-calling.

I apologize for stooping to your level and withdraw the “moron” part. But I’m still stupid and a tool right?

Yet Alex’s article clearly states Puig isn’t the reason why the Giants lost. And there isn’t a writer that’s discussed Puig or the lack of strategy against him. That’s fine. It is irrelevant. The giants are sinking, and they’ll need a major slump buster to get out of it.

I still think looking at the pen as Bochy has done is misguided. The starters rank 23rd the pen ranks 10th.

CU…all is good…THANKS! We’re on the same page, just from different directions.

Mo P

Thanks for the heads up Alex.

I wasn’t angry after last night’s loss b/c i didn’t watch. This is probably the best formula for me… I’ll pick back up on the giants when Cain goes against Colorado… healthier for me, less annoying for the beat writers and any twitter associated with the SF Giants.