Strangelove wrote:Yeahno, Sutter would continue to average 17 minutes of icetime on any team in the league...

Very doubtful. A decent and somewhat useful player, but an overpaid one.

He's about as overpaid as Dorsett is.

If he can contribute 20 goals, and admittedly he's only done that twice in his career, then he's worth around $4M, maybe a shade more. If that 20 goals only comes with 10-15 assists then he's worth $3.75M.....regardless of how many penalties he kills or face-offs he wins.

Hard to make a judgement call on how bad the over-payment is until we see him play a full season here. Optimistically he's good for 20 and 20, blocks shots, kills penalties, and plays 80 games.

Thing is he has averaged 30 points a season throughout his entire career getting these 17 min of icetime. He is an average face off guy and a solid penalty killer. Apparently he has played 17 min a game so unless he is going to play 20+ minutes here, I don't see 40 points happening more than once or twice in the life of his contract.

Furthermore based on last years NHL rosters because that's all we have to go with at this point, I can think of a few teams where he is most definitely not a top six guy. Chicago, St Louis, Dallas, Washington, San Jose come to mind right away. I'm sure there are others. Oh he may chisel his way into the top six in icetime due to pk but to me that isn't worth 4.5 million. That's Jannik Hansen or Chris Higgins money.

But yes, Hartnell is playing okay, and he's a Benning type player AND if the goal really is the playoffs he could help.

I'm just not hopeful that Vancouver can deal into a better position, they aren't dealing from strength with the 5th pick when they want the 3rd. Remember how hopeful it was with the draft simulator, those were the days.

Hence, take the pick and run.

Hmmmmm if Montreal really values PLD and trades to ensure getting him ahead of us and Tkachukanucchuks value has ballooned from his Cup run...Puljujarvi could fall to us.....I is more than alrigh' wit dat dere scenario...

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Hey, he takes a shot, he gets one back. Seems fair.

More credence to the above....

The Edmonton Oilers, meanwhile, are believed to be wary of dealing the fourth-overall pick for a player they would then have to protect in the expansion draft. Their likeliest course of action is to draft London Knights winger Matthew Tkachuk, who will be exempt.

Where are called the SN article click bait, or where I agreed that Hartnell might actually help the team make the playoffs?

No worries Mondi, apparently if pig fackers from Coquitlam troll and post non-hockey shyte about you it's OK but if you respond to it you are 'warned' Ewwwwww I'm so scared I will be banned for dat It's like they have a secret inbred society they take a train to and talk about us behind our backs that make them elite and cool yet pretty lame and stupid at the same time...

Hartnell won't only help us make the post-season (we still wouldn't get that far), he would be a great role model/mentor for the young'ns

The best comparison for Sutter ($4.375M aav) is Artem Anisimov ($4.55M aav), both tall two-way centers who won't score a bunch, but are ultra reliable, all they need is some scoring wingers to succeed.

Sutter who had even crappier wingers (Higgins/Burrows/Vrbata) here compared to AA (Panarin/Kane/Hossa) was doing alright in that small sample size in the fall of 2015 before the abdomen, back and jaw injuries, he still got 5g, 9pts in 20 games which equates to pretty much a 20g/20a season had he been healthy.

Imagine a 2017 season line of Dubois or Tkachuk - Sutter - Boeser.

A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

SKYO wrote:
Sutter who had even crappier wingers (Higgins/Burrows/Vrbata) here compared to AA (Panarin/Kane/Hossa) was doing alright in that small sample size in the fall of 2015 before the abdomen, back and jaw injuries, he still got 5g, 9pts in 20 games which equates to pretty much a 20g/20a season had he been healthy.

Sutter played 26% with Virtanen and Burrows. His second most common linemats were the Sedin twins (22%). Hardly chopped liver. I suspect he'd easily surpass 40 points with the Sedins, a fucking fire hydrant could hit 30 playing with them.

Anyways, we'll see where he slots in next year. He was brought in to be a shutdown C, so hopefully he's not lining up with the twins in the fall. Considering Bo Horvat is already a better offensive player, I suspect Sutter will start on the 3rd line.

SKYO wrote:The best comparison for Sutter ($4.375M aav) is Artem Anisimov ($4.55M aav), both tall two-way centers who won't score a bunch, but are ultra reliable, all they need is some scoring wingers to succeed.

Sutter who had even crappier wingers (Higgins/Burrows/Vrbata) here compared to AA (Panarin/Kane/Hossa) was doing alright in that small sample size in the fall of 2015 before the abdomen, back and jaw injuries, he still got 5g, 9pts in 20 games which equates to pretty much a 20g/20a season had he been healthy.

SKYO wrote:
Sutter who had even crappier wingers (Higgins/Burrows/Vrbata) here compared to AA (Panarin/Kane/Hossa) was doing alright in that small sample size in the fall of 2015 before the abdomen, back and jaw injuries, he still got 5g, 9pts in 20 games which equates to pretty much a 20g/20a season had he been healthy.

Sutter played 26% with Virtanen and Burrows. His second most common linemats were the Sedin twins (22%). Hardly chopped liver. I suspect he'd easily surpass 40 points with the Sedins, a fucking fire hydrant could hit 30 playing with them.

Anyways, we'll see where he slots in next year. He was brought in to be a shutdown C, so hopefully he's not lining up with the twins in the fall. Considering Bo Horvat is already a better offensive player, I suspect Sutter will start on the 3rd line.

Hard one IN. Willie thinks Bo needs more time focusing on D. He said playing with offensive players at this point in his career is a distraction. Or words to that effect. I still think they want to shelter Bo on the third line for at least another season. They want him working on his F/O and in a shut down role and not worry about his offence just yet. Something about the pressure he puts on himself to produce points takes away from other key contributions.

I think the pencil plan is same similar to last year. Hank, Sutter, Bo, Granlund. What shakes out at the draft, FA and camp will go a long way to setting the line up though. From last season to the up coming one we have gone from a lot of bodies at centre with just Gaunce as the back up plan. Maybe we draft Dubois and maybe he surprises at camp and becomes the next kid we can't send to Utica and have to keep for the year, experiment.

SKYO wrote:
The best comparison for Sutter ($4.375M aav) is Artem Anisimov ($4.55M aav), both tall two-way centers who won't score a bunch, but are ultra reliable, all they need is some scoring wingers to succeed.

Compared to AA (Panarin/Kane/Hossa) was doing alright in that small sample size in the fall of 2015 before the abdomen, back and jaw injuries, he still got 5g, 9pts in 20 games which equates to pretty much a 20g/20a season had he been healthy.

Sutter played 26% with Virtanen and Burrows. His second most common linemats were the Sedin twins (22%). Hardly chopped liver.

I suspect he'd easily surpass 40 points with the Sedins, a fucking fire hydrant could hit 30 playing with them.

Anyways, we'll see where he slots in next year. He was brought in to be a shutdown C, so hopefully he's not lining up with the twins in the fall. Considering Bo Horvat is already a better offensive player, I suspect Sutter will start on the 3rd line.

You made a good point there, and it's why we don't need to get a winger for the Sedins, like Eriksson, even though it would be nice, it's more of a luxury.

And if you don't want Sutter on the Sedins wing to acquire a player like Stamkos, then you have to do whats best for what we got in Sutter and get him wingers who can score and make plays, just like the Blackhawks have done with Anisimov to be a successful team, it's why I'm comparing those two, as a two-way player that can't produce offense on their own like a Jeff Carter, then you got to surround that center with wingers who can.

So just to reiterate ideally we can put creative scoring wingers beside Sutter next season, rather than burrows and virtanen.

A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

SKYO wrote:
Sutter who had even crappier wingers (Higgins/Burrows/Vrbata) here compared to AA (Panarin/Kane/Hossa) was doing alright in that small sample size in the fall of 2015 before the abdomen, back and jaw injuries, he still got 5g, 9pts in 20 games which equates to pretty much a 20g/20a season had he been healthy.

Sutter played 26% with Virtanen and Burrows. His second most common linemats were the Sedin twins (22%). Hardly chopped liver. I suspect he'd easily surpass 40 points with the Sedins, a fucking fire hydrant could hit 30 playing with them.

Anyways, we'll see where he slots in next year. He was brought in to be a shutdown C, so hopefully he's not lining up with the twins in the fall. Considering Bo Horvat is already a better offensive player, I suspect Sutter will start on the 3rd line.

Hard one IN. Willie thinks Bo needs more time focusing on D. He said playing with offensive players at this point in his career is a distraction. Or words to that effect. I still think they want to shelter Bo on the third line for at least another season. They want him working on his F/O and in a shut down role and not worry about his offence just yet. Something about the pressure he puts on himself to produce points takes away from other key contributions.

I think the pencil plan is same similar to last year. Hank, Sutter, Bo, Granlund. What shakes out at the draft, FA and camp will go a long way to setting the line up though. From last season to the up coming one we have gone from a lot of bodies at centre with just Gaunce as the back up plan. Maybe we draft Dubois and maybe he surprises at camp and becomes the next kid we can't send to Utica and have to keep for the year, experiment.

Or we sign Stamkos

Well I hope someone has a little chat with WD then! Is that true? Did he really say that about Bo?
That's nuts! Bo has been working on the defensive side of his game for 2 years in the NHL and most of his last year in junior.
The second half of this season, we were just starting to see the tremendous potential he has.
Maybe the "short leash" some folks talk about WD wearing should break now before it's too late!
I can't believe that crap..

Why do you call it crap? How many seasons did Kesler play that same role?

They want Bo to keep working on his overall game without having the pressure:

1) to be a top six scorer, yet

2) to match up against the opponent's top six on a regular basis, if they can avoid it. Particularly in the face off circle.

It's called player development. It's not that they don't want production from him and his line its just that they don't want to put him in a position where he has to carry the second line, yet. Not forever, just yet. It doesn't mean it won't happen either. If he continues to develop and take that next step his time will come.

Hockey Widow wrote:
Hard one IN. Willie thinks Bo needs more time focusing on D. He said playing with offensive players at this point in his career is a distraction. Or words to that effect. I still think they want to shelter Bo on the third line for at least another season. They want him working on his F/O and in a shut down role and not worry about his offence just yet. Something about the pressure he puts on himself to produce points takes away from other key contributions.

I guess my thinking is, if we're trying to make the playoffs, let the better players play with better players at the top of the lineup. Sutter is not a creative centre, he doesn't distribute well at all, and he's already geared to that 3rd line role. Horvat has the speed and ability to create offence, something we desperately lack, why not utilize that? Why force a square peg into a round hole?

The only reason Sutter can be categorized as a 2C (as Doc points out) is his TOI. He's fine as a third line C (not getting into the contract). Let him play where he's most effective. Horvat is a better offensive player, and Sutter plays the third-line, straight ahead game well. I don't see why they'd want to force this. Give Sutter the harder defensive matches, let Horvat play with the better offensive players.

SKYO wrote:
So just to reiterate ideally we can put creative scoring wingers beside Sutter next season, rather than burrows and virtanen.

So while we lacked scoring wingers for playmaking Bonino, now we're looking for playmaking wingers for shoot-first Sutter. Seems to me we need to stop trying to force offence to become a plank in Sutter's overall game.