I'm currently car-lite with my girlfriend for about a year and a half now, we share her car, we both bus and bike to work regularly, and I've been Ubering and Car2Going regularly for social occasions. Works pretty well.

And ride-sharing is booming, we went to dinner at Heyday a couple weeks ago and sat outside. More than half the arrivals/departures that we saw during that time were via Uber. I think a big change is happening as we speak.

I think that's the future, sharing cars and using other modes, rather than having every single adult purchase, insure, maintain, and store their own individual $10,000-$50,000 machine that seats up to five people just for commuting and errands.

I'm sorry but that's just not going to happen. The future being car sharing/transit thing. It is a neat thing for *some* people. And it IS a necessity for others. But it is always going to be The Future, and will never be The Present here unless there is a major economic breakdown where people ultimately cannot afford to buy vehicles. And even then there is a terribly high markup on the price of vehicles that automakers can reduce the price a LONG way and still make a metric shit ton of money. So basically when that time comes we have significantly large problems.

I keep hearing about the mindset that millennials don't want to buy "things"..... yeah because they don't have money. Sorry but that's the truth. Every generation in their earlier years claim something only to be at least lessen their stances on those issues or become completely hypocritical. I didn't want a house at one point in my life too. All I needed was a nice apartment! Married, kids...Next thing I know I have a house and a garage full of stuff. And no not all people live that way but the majority do. But where you have two working adults with kids and activities it's pie in the sky thinking to think this is going to change any time soon. The overwhelming majority of people are never going to work 8 hours a day taking transit both ways and then rely on ride share/transit programs or catching transit to meet their obligations. The sum of money being 10k-50k cited above works out to what using rideshare/transit for a family of 4 for all their trips? So then you start getting into things like reorganizing the way people live. "Do your children REALLY need to be involved in X,Y,and Z?"... "Do you really need to make a couple stops between work and home?"...... it just isn't going to happen.

The overwhelming majority of families are going to own at least one vehicle. And they are going to use them frequently. That is why in addition to good transit systems, which IS absolutely critical to our transportation needs, we need to revisit how the personal vehicle operates on the road.

I generally agree with that, though I think there are economic realities that will drive changes in behavior. But the SOV is not going away any time soon and is still going to be the dominant mode of transportation for a long time, probably long after we're all gone. What that SOV looks like will undoubtedly change a great deal.

Somehow I just can't get myself to try Uber or ridesharing in general. I think it's my general risk-averse nature. There's an aspect to it that's just scary to me. I have nightmares about being held up in an Uber car and so on. Maybe they're irrational but I'll bet other people wonder about that stuff too. There's a sense of security that comes with regulation of cabs. It may be in Uber's best interest to get some kind of certification process going, or make it more visible if there is one.

xandrex wrote:Are we really calling the average commuter in the Twin Cities anti-social?

Yes.

I mean, that's just silly. But carry on.

I got plenty of socializing on the bus today...if you define socializing as standing in the aisle of a full bus, pressed between several sweaty bodies and getting shoved around as people tried to exit. It really made my day.

Coming soon to a bus near you: Transit Police to make people put away their phones and lead passengers in games of Charades, Pictionary, and the Adventures of Baron Munchausen to make sure they're sufficiantly social.

Re: displacing the SOV. My brother and his wife are moving out of downtown to South Minneapolis (they are stalking us). The house they are buying only has a single car garage. They only own one car but are trying to figure out if they can expand the garage to accommodate two. I'm trying to talk them out of it. They are both pilots so they don't do a daily commute and she's about to have a baby so will be on leave for awhile. They're likely not going to listen to me to get a second car so she doesn't have to put the baby in a car seat to drive him to work and pick him up. For two trips a week, they will likely buy another car and build more garage. It's what "normal" people do.

Not that I'm one to talk, as we built a two car garage to store a second car that only gets used maybe every two weeks, and then often just because I try to use it every once in awhile. But at least in my defense, the existing single car garage was falling down and needed to be replaced and we already owned the two cars.

moda253 wrote:I'm sorry but that's just not going to happen. The future being car sharing/transit thing. It is a neat thing for *some* people. And it IS a necessity for others. But it is always going to be The Future, and will never be The Present here unless there is a major economic breakdown where people ultimately cannot afford to buy vehicles. And even then there is a terribly high markup on the price of vehicles that automakers can reduce the price a LONG way and still make a metric shit ton of money. So basically when that time comes we have significantly large problems.

I keep hearing about the mindset that millennials don't want to buy "things"..... yeah because they don't have money. Sorry but that's the truth. Every generation in their earlier years claim something only to be at least lessen their stances on those issues or become completely hypocritical. I didn't want a house at one point in my life too. All I needed was a nice apartment! Married, kids...Next thing I know I have a house and a garage full of stuff. And no not all people live that way but the majority do. But where you have two working adults with kids and activities it's pie in the sky thinking to think this is going to change any time soon. The overwhelming majority of people are never going to work 8 hours a day taking transit both ways and then rely on ride share/transit programs or catching transit to meet their obligations. The sum of money being 10k-50k cited above works out to what using rideshare/transit for a family of 4 for all their trips? So then you start getting into things like reorganizing the way people live. "Do your children REALLY need to be involved in X,Y,and Z?"... "Do you really need to make a couple stops between work and home?"...... it just isn't going to happen.

The overwhelming majority of families are going to own at least one vehicle. And they are going to use them frequently. That is why in addition to good transit systems, which IS absolutely critical to our transportation needs, we need to revisit how the personal vehicle operates on the road.

What's not going to happen?

Notice I didn't say SOVs were going away, just the idea that every "normal" adult has to own one will likely change. Families owning "at least one vehicle" is not inconsistent with my argument.

Last edited by Sacrelicio on July 14th, 2016, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

amiller92 wrote:Not that I'm one to talk, as we built a two car garage to store a second car that only gets used maybe every two weeks, and then often just because I try to use it every once in awhile. But at least in my defense, the existing single car garage was falling down and needed to be replaced and we already owned the two cars.

We're actually in exactly the situation you describe: a falling-apart one-and-a-half car garage with two cars we already have. We've been saving up for a new garage and will probably build one in a few years.

Since we plan to go solar, I've had this crazy idea of designing the garage for maximum solar sq. ft., perhaps like a small saltbox. Anyone know of companies that do this sort of thing? Architects? I'm sure it'd be outrageously expensive but I'm still interested in researching the possibility.

I don't think we can afford to spring for a full ADU. Would be nice but just doesn't make financial sense for us.

The car seat thing cuts both ways. I have definitely walked to places with a stroller further than I otherwise would because it is so damn inconvenient to get kids in and out of car seats. In your brother's situation, is there some reason using transit to commute is not possible? South Minneapolis seems like an ideal place to use transit to get to the airport. Is it a work schedule issue, with buses not running frequently at needed times?

David Greene wrote:That's just a ridiculous strawman. Intellectually lazy.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

If you're referring to my comment, then I guess you don't understand the difference between strawmans and snark.

I was replying to the notion that "social" means interacting with people all the time. When people say transit is social, they mean it's a social environment. People other than yourself. That presence actually is very important.

Notice I didn't say SOVs were going away, just the idea that every "normal" adult has to own one will likely change. Families owning "at least one vehicle" is not inconsistent with my argument.

I think that's the future, sharing cars and using other modes, rather than having every single adult purchase, insure, maintain, and store their own individual $10,000-$50,000 machine that seats up to five people just for commuting and errands.

Sorry it was when you said that you thought that the future would be more ride sharing and other modes rather than having every single person purchase, maintain,.......

I guess I just don't see any of that having a major dent in our transportation systems any time soon for many reasons. Would I support such a shift? Absolutely. Too many conveniences for too many people and the ability for automakers and others to make money off those conveniences tells me that isn't happening.

That reminds me that there has been some progress with solid-state LIDAR sensors. Currently-available sensors use laser beams bouncing off spinning mirrors, which can be bulky and are at risk of damage whenever the cars they're on go through potholes or other bumps. MIT and DARPA have gotten a prototype working -- It only has a range of about 2 meters so far, but they think they can improve it. A couple private companies are working on them too.

DETROIT (AP) — Companies can now test self-driving cars on Michigan public roads without a driver or steering wheel under new laws that could push the state to the forefront of autonomous vehicle development.

The package of bills signed into law Friday comes with few specific state regulations and leaves many decisions up to automakers and companies like Google and Uber.

It also allows automakers and tech companies to run autonomous taxi services and permits test parades of self-driving tractor-trailers as long as humans are in each truck. And they allow the sale of self-driving vehicles to the public once they are tested and certified, according to the state.

The bills allow testing without burdensome regulations so the industry can move forward with potential life-saving technology, said Gov. Rick Snyder, who was to sign the bills. "It makes Michigan a place where particularly for the auto industry it's a good place to do work," he said.

The bills give Michigan the potential to be a leader by giving the companies more autonomy than say, California, which now requires human backup drivers in case something goes awry.