Local, State Reaction to Health Care Ruling

By a 5-4 decision, announced this morning, the Supreme Court has upheld President’ Obama heath care law. Numerous local and state officials and candidates are now weighing in on the high court’s ruling.

Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) called the decision a “blow to freedom.”

Today’s Supreme Court ruling is extremely disappointing for Virginia and for America. The PPACA will create a costly and cumbersome system that will impair our country’s ability to recover from these challenging economic times, infringes on our citizen’s liberties, will harm small businesses, and will impose dramatic unfunded mandates on Virginia and all states. Simply put, this is a blow to freedom. America needs market-based solutions that give patients more choice, not less.

Virginia will evaluate the steps necessary to comply with the law. While we have awaited this decision, planners have been working to identify necessary resources and issues to be addressed to ensure Virginia implements this flawed law in the most effective and least costly and burdensome way possible. In coming months, Virginia’s healthcare leaders will work to develop the best possible system to meet the healthcare needs of our citizens. It remains my hope that we will elect a new President and Senate so that the existing law will be repealed and states will be given the freedom they need to implement healthcare solutions that work best for their citizens. We will evaluate the opinion in detail in the days ahead and determine what policies are proper for the people of Virginia.

Today the Supreme Court reaffirmed what Democrats and President Obama have known for two years; the Affordable Care Act stands on firm constitutional grounds.

People across the country are already benefiting from reforms in the Affordable Care Act, including 6.6 million young people who can stay on their parents’ insurance, 105 million Americans who no longer have a lifetime limit on their coverage, and 5.3 million seniors in the ‘donut hole’ who have saved $3.7 billion on their prescription drugs.

Though today’s ruling provides assurance as the Administration phases in life-saving reforms including a ban on insurance companies denying coverage to individuals with pre-existing conditions, Republicans in Congress will undoubtedly continue their efforts to dismantle critical provisions of the Affordable Care Act. We must continue fighting these efforts in the House of Representatives to repeal ACA.

Passage of the Affordable Care Act in 2009 represented a giant leap forward to not only make our health care system work better for Americans of any age, race, gender, or income level, but to rescue our economy from the suffocating grip of spiraling health care costs. We spend nearly 18 percent of our entire economy on health care – twice what every other industrialized nation pays. The Affordable Care Act will reduce our deficit while improving access to, and the quality of, care for all Americans.

Washington has been struggling to deliver meaningful health care reform for more than six decades. Today’s ruling means the United States can finally see its way closer to delivering on that promise for all Americans.

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli (R), a leading opponent of the health care law, said today is “a dark day for American liberty.” He is planning to hold a press conference at noon today in Richmond to discuss the decision.

This is a dark day for the American people, the Constitution, and the rule of law. This is a dark day for American liberty.

This decision goes against the very principle that America has a federal government of limited powers; a principle that the Founding Fathers clearly wrote into the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. The Constitution was meant to restrict the power of government precisely for the purpose of protecting your liberty and mine from the overreaching hand of the federal government.

This unprecedented decision says that Congress has the authority to force citizens to buy private goods or face fines – a power it has never had in American history, and a power King George III and Parliament didn’t have over us when we were mere subjects of Great Britain. Since the federal government itself could never articulate to the court a constitutional limit to this power, Congress has gained an unlimited power to force citizens to buy anything.

I am disappointed with the court’s ruling and with the unprecedented attack on American liberty the president and the previous Congress have created with this law.

Del. Patrick Hope (D) said today is a “historic day for over 30 million uninsured Americans.”

The United States Supreme Court today issued a historic decision sending shockwaves throughout our country that will affect every American. The decision involves a challenge by opponents of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which seeks to expand access, coverage, and improve the quality of care to nearly every American.

Delegate Patrick A. Hope (D-Arlington) reacted, “This is a historic day for over 30 million uninsured Americans. Never again will the sickest and neediest consumers have to put up with lifetime caps on coverage, or will women have to pay more for health insurance than men, or will insurance companies be allowed to discriminate against anyone with a pre-existing condition.” Delegate Hope continued, “Thanks to Obamacare, the new norm will be allowing young people to stay on their parents’ plans until age 26, free preventive benefits for seniors, and the opportunity for over 30 million uninsured Americans to access high quality, affordable health insurance.”

Since the law went into effect, Virginians have felt the benefits of the Affordable Care Act:

837,645 Virginians with Medicare have received free preventive services; and

84,977 Virginians with Medicare saved money on prescription drugs.

Delegate Patrick Hope concluded, “Now that the courts have finally ruled, it’s time Virginia got to work to fully implement the law. I call on Governor Bob McDonnell to bring the General Assembly back into session this year to make the provisions contained in the Affordable Care Act law in Virginia. Specifically, priority number one is to enact legislation giving Virginia the legal authority to implement health insurance exchanges so that small businesses and individual consumers can access high-quality, affordable health insurance. I can think of nothing better we can do to help prop up our economy than to make health insurance affordable for all Virginians.

Congressional candidate Patrick Murray (R), who will be facing off against Moran in November, said “America is on the brink” as a result of the health care law being upheld. Murray promised to work to “defund and dismantle” the law if elected to Congress.

Minutes ago the Supreme Court of the United States issued a monumental opinion, upholding Obamacare.

Unfortunately for freedom-lovers like you and me, the Supreme Court found Obamacare to be legal and constitutional. The Court said that the individual mandate is essentially another Federal tax that the government can impose on all of us. You know that I vigorously disagree with this opinion (not to mention tax increases), and that’s why this election has suddenly become even more important.

Now, more than ever we need strong leaders in Congress who will stop voting to trample on our liberties. We are not a cradle-to-grave Social Welfare State, or at least that’s not what our Founders intended! But with this ruling, America is on the brink.

Here’s my pledge to you – when I get elected to Congress, on DAY ONE I will vote to defund and dismantle Obamacare.

On top of this massive increase in the form of an individual mandate, this travesty increases numerous other taxes, increases our debt, hurts small businesses and cuts $500 billion from Medicare.

reactions predictably falling along party lines. —— when are we going to rise above this?

charles

If anyone knows about blowing, it’s Governor Handgun McDonnell.

Carmen

I am guessing politicians will never rise above this.

Banksy

Woo-hoo! Suck on it, Cooch and McDonnell!

nunya

+1

DK

It was a very conservative court that made this decision. It’s just sour grapes on the part of the Governor and his attorney general.

Tabby_TwoTone

+1

dk (not DK)

+1.

Cooch: The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

neutrino

Scientists vigorously disagree about the merits and validity of the sky-falling theory.
– The Cooch

true dat!

+1

Ivy

Exactly!

WileE

Thank you, Mitt Romney, for ushering in this new era, one in which all Americans, young and old, healthy or otherwise, can be assured of access to healthcare. And thanks, too, for being marginalized by your recently retracted desire to help uninsured sick people.

Id

And what kind of quality of health care are we going to get? Wait til it takes you 3 months to get an appointment to see a doctor for an illness. Check your budget, because you now have to buy insurance. It’s mandatory for everyone. If you don’t, there are a nice couple of IRS agents (newly hired) to come pay you a visit, if you do not pay the penalty from not purchasing it. You know why the insurance companies did not say a peep? Because their profit margins are now going to go through the roof with a whole new customer base which that did not have before, but now can be sure to get due to the individual mandate.

Ivy

Uhhh……3 months for an appointment??? I would switch health plans if I were you. You are free to select any health care provider you want.

ShirliMan

PPACA already requires that 80% of premium in the fully insured individual/small group markets and 85% of premium in the fully insured large group market be spent on claims expense.

drax

“Wait til it takes you 3 months to get an appointment to see a doctor for an illness.”

No such thing will happen. There’s simply no basis for that claim. This law simply assures everyone has health insurance.

Unless you’re complaining that people who can suddenly afford to get care will be in your way. Is that it?

“Check your budget, because you now have to buy insurance. It’s mandatory for everyone.”

Only if you don’t already have it from an employer or Medicare/Medicaid will you have to buy it, and if you can’t afford it you’ll get subsidies from the government.

What you can’t do is not buy insurance, get sick, and then dump your financial crisis on the rest of us.

nom de guerre

Are you now the subject matter expert on how long it takes to get a medical appointment? I work with individuals who have medicare and/or medicaid and they have problems even finding a provider who will accept their insurance let alone getting an appointment within 45 days.

dk (not DK)

Your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding, virtually every poll ever conducted finds that *Medicare* beneficiaries enjoy better access than the rest of us. They have fewer problems finding providers, have more choice of providers, and have shorter wait times than any other group, insured or not.

*Medicaid* beneficiaries are a completely different story. They have trouble getting in to see providers because the states that pay for their care set very low payment rates. However, ask yourself if these people would have an easier time getting health care if they had no insurance at all.

nom de guerre

Are the polls you referred to nationwide or local? This area is somewhat unique due to the high cost of living and/or conducting business. The current reimbursement rates for Medicare and especially Medicaid are viewed as very low and fewer and fewer doctors, especially specialists, are willing to take on new patients. Medicaid patients have little problem accessing health care now due to the fact that they just go the the Emergency Room.

dk (not DK)

nationwide.

ArmLancestrong

And you may now resume the raping and pillaging of at-risk businesses across the land.

the real drax

Feel free to elaborate.

bubba

Any business that doesn’t take care of its employees sufficiently to ensure basinc health care deserves to be “at risk”…..unless you think it should be public health care – as it is for most of our competitor’s nations.

CW

I’d almost think that a smart business owner would value his skilled employees and the time and money he has invested in their training enough that he’d not want to lose them due to illness and have to reinvest in finding and training new employees. I’d also think that he’d look to the evidence that workers perform better when they feel a personal involvement in and allegiance to their work. But maybe that’s just me out there in lib-rul fantasyland overthinking things again.

the real drax

The conservative response, and it has merit, is that the business owner should decide that, not the government.

CW

Yep, and to complement that, the conservatives would also slash social services, cut educational funding, and take other steps to ensure that all but their landed gentry friends have no choice other than to work for sweatshop-owner small bidnessmen like the aforementioned.

the real drax

I know. I didn’t say I was one.

dk (not DK)

I completely agree that business owners should decide. Which is why health coverage should be provided by the government, not business. But the right-wingers don’t want that either. So the rest of us must move on without them. We’ll let them benefit from health coverage anyway, ’cause we’re nice that way.

D’oh

Yep yep yep. Although I’d guess business would pocket the savings rather than pass them to employees.

Ivy

Yeah. We certainly don’t want the Government to force us to have a child or force us to pray in public schools.

Patrick

I would guess that most businesses will decide it is cheaper and thus prudent to drop coverage and pay the fine.

the real drax

So they have a choice.

KalashniKEV

A lot of us already dropped coverage for dependents when the “Health Care Law” put 26 year old grown men and women eligible under their parents plans. It was very sad.

WeiQiang

It’s a free-market business decision.

Patrick

How can being forced to pay a fine for not providing something to your employees any in way be considered “free market”?

dk (not DK)

ask the conservative Heritage Foundation to explain it to you. It was their idea before it was Obama’s idea.

W Virginia Mine Owner

Right on! It still annoys me that I have to provide f’ing helmets to our employees…have you seen the cost!

CW

Good lord, so let’s just take it back to the 1800’s and let the free market decide; the coal mines whose employees die of black lung or mine collapses in less than 6 months will surely be weeded out by the market, right? Have fun getting compensated when a machine in the factory you work in takes both your arms off; that’s just an instrument of the free market at work.

WeiQiang

first, I would say that paying a fine for not providing safety equipment for your employees is a decent analog.

as for “free market”, there isn’t any … between subsidies [name your industry], local tax breaks, regulations [some legit, some only meant to protect preferred campaign donors], brandwashing, corporate “speech”, hiring political staffers with once and future jobs in the industry being regulated, and the like, there is no free market.

Id

It is public health care. The Government is now in control.

Ivy

Yeah and its about time. The insurance companies have been in charge of health care for years and look at what it has gotten us. The government is not in control. All they have done is passed sensible laws to keep costs under control and give people the freedom to choose their health care (unlike now where you have no choice if the insurance companies don’t want you)

Id

The problem is that it was 3rd party payer system and not consumer based, and a true understanding of medical costs is not made. People pay their 10-20 co-pay and think that’s all to it. A third of medical costs are Medicare patients. Medicare (a Government program in the bottomless red) only pays 20% of those costs. Who the hell do you think makes up the difference? And now the Government is in control of health care? Holy shit . . . we are going the way of Greece ( Our deficit now is 16 trillion dollars).

dk (not DK)

Please check your facts.

Medicare sets payment rates for providers and pays *80%* of the payment. The copayment is 20%. Most Medicare beneficiaries (90%) have supplemental coverage (either through their employer/retirement package, privately purchased, or through Medicaid eligibility) that covers much of that 20% copay.

Many health policy analysts (both liberal and conservative) believe that allowing that copay to be completely covered is a mistake because it completely shields beneficiaries from their consequences of health care decisions. However, good luck getting any legislation passed that prevents full coverage of Medicare copays.

The idea that “consumer” based health care is the answer to our problems is short-sighted at best. It’s true, if we all bore the full cost of our medical decision-making, spending on health care would nose-dive. That’s because virtually no one can afford to pay out of pocket for catastrophic health events like cancer or major trauma. You may wish to live in a world where only the wealthy can afford to receive treatment for breast cancer. I, for one, do not.

D’oh

Ned Stark says: Brace yourselves
Angry conservatives are coming

Mother Of Dragons

you will know them by their blue eyes

Queeny Bald Warlock

I will never forgive you for setting me on fire.

Hodor

Hodor!

WeiQiang

“Queeny Bald Warlock” … clutch, bro!

Conservative Free Market Plan

Bring out yer dead

CW

Murray sounds like a raving lunatic.

How is he going to vote on this on “DAY ONE”? What is they don’t hold a vote on the issue that day? Then he is SOL. What a silly promise.

Is “DAY ONE” the new “PROPER SLICE”??

WeiQiang

I will stand vibrantly on day one.

Hank

He really does sound batsh!t insane. According to Murray, people like us who support ACA do not love freedom. I didn’t realize it was one or the other… I appreciate real ‘Muricans like Murray setting the record straight.

KalashniKEV

So are you pro-dictatorial government, AND love freedom?

Would you describe yourself as anti-tyranny?

Hank

Where do you get “dictatorial” from? Tell me, do you make your tin foil hats from scratch or is there a little kit you can buy?

KalashniKEV

Based on this decision, the government is dictating that I purchase a product.

brif

a product that you will use at some point in your life anyway.

the real drax

Considering that the government can do much worse to you, that’s hardly dictatorial. It may be unconstitutional, but that’s not the same thing. You’ll be forced to have health insurance. Oh, the agony.

Washingtony

You just encapsulated what scares people about this – your attitude that “considering that the government can do much worse to you…” is not a healthy one to have. It should not be as ingrained as it seems to be in many, many people. Yeah, I see the other side in that sometimes people need to be coerced into making better choices. It’s just that I and many others believe that just is not the federal government’s job.

KalashniKEV

I 100% believe that this administration has plans for far worse in the coming years. We ALL need to be prepared for this.

dk (not DK)

Washingtony–and yet, that was exactly what was argued before & by the court–if the government can do this to you, can’t they also make you buy broccoli?!?!?

the real drax

I was referring to the fact that the government can send you to die in a war involuntarily (draft), buy your property without your consent (eminent domain), take a third or more of your income each year (taxes) – stuff like that. I’m not saying it should, just that most people don’t call that “dictatorial” either.

Though Kev might.

Arlingdude

Not really. It’s saying that if you don’t buy the product, it will instead impose a tax on you that you can refuse to pay, with no penalty. (A major flaw in the system.)

Ivy

Just like the government is forcing you to have a child even if you don’t want one

You clearly support the governments ability to legislate your behavior. That doesn’t sound like freedom me.

WeiQiang

Did you wear your seatbelt on the way in to work?

Hank

I sure do! I’m also okay with the government regulating the speed at which I drive, the quality of medicines I ingest, and the safety of the environment my employer provides.

the real drax

Um, Patrick, if you think the government can never legislate the behavior of citizens, you’re really really lost.

sunflower

we have met the government and it is us

Ivy

The real drax: if you don’t feel the government should legislate behavior, than I guess you are not part of the anti-choice and pro-war groups of the right wingers. Talk about wanting to leglslate the behavior of citizens…….

KalashniKEV

No FREEDOM LOVER’S PIZZA for you, comrade!

CW

I don’t know why, but this just reminded me of the Dalai Lama pizza shop joke…

Mitt R Money

I am glad that I provided the template for the Affordable Care Act.

the real drax

Thanks, Etch A Sketch!

JohnB2

I admit I do not understand all aspects and implications of the Affordable Care Act but as someone with a pre-existing condition, I am happy that I will now have guaranteed access to health care. It’s the only part of the law that I wanted. I was repeatedly denied coverage in the 2003-2010 timeframe, even when I was willing to pay twice the usual premiums.

For all I care, they could have made it a completely separate law, independent of whatever else is in the ACA.

the real drax

They couldn’t make it a separate law though, because that would allow freeloaders not to pay into the whole system, but still benefit from the pre-existing condition requirement. They could just go without insurance until they needed it, then sign up as soon as they got sick.

Patrick

Health care and health insurance are different things. This law has absolutly no affect on your access to health care.

the real drax

Um, yes, it’s fair to say that lack of health insurance makes health care less accessible. The word “access” can be used this way.

JohnB2

Yes, I used the incorrect term; when I said I was happy to have access to health care, I meant health insurance coverage. Thanks.

Id

First, when are you going to get this care? Secondly, a bureaucrat, not a doctor will have the right go determine whether it is cost effective to treat you now, despite your pre-existing condition. Look up the flow chart for the decision-making process to offer care to patients. What has the Government ever handled that worked? Social Security is bankrupted. Medicare is a gaping hole in our deficit. Something wicked this way comes. Something wicked this way comes.

Ivy

Id, do you have any clue what the Affordable Healthcare Act is? Clearly you don’t if you still believe the Limbaugh/Palin lies about the Government deciding if you get health care. Come on……learn something for a change and understand the law by reading it yourself and not listening to the Fox News version.

KalashniKEV

HOORAY! More people have access to insurance, more people use insurance, costs go up, plans get expensive, employers drop plans b/c the fine is cheaper, the fine gets more expensive, now everything is expensive, quality of care goes down… I don’t see any other possible outcome, does anyone else?

Kevin Diffily

The uninsured use the emergency room as their primary care. This cost is absorbed by the insured’s insurance premiums. The new law will shift them to significantly lower cost primary care physicians and should result in lower insurance premiums.

KalashniKEV

False.

nuanced rebuttal

True

MC 703

If it ain’t that broke, don’t fix it?

Id

Who wants to be a lower cost primary physician when it cost 500.000 to go to medical school? Doctors are not going to do grunt crap. I know one doctor considering closing their office because of this ruling.

If it were true that greater access leads to higher costs, then 40 years ago–when FAR more people had health insurance–inflation-adjusted costs should have been higher than they are now. But costs then were lower. There was more preventive car and thus less overuse of the ER.

Id

Exactly. Say goodbye to medical care as we know it. I know 3 doctors who are closing shop within the next 6 months after this decision.

so allowing this by calling it tax, doesn’t that open up congress forcing residents to buy cable as a tax?

KalashniKEV

YES.

nuanced rebuttal

NO

Washingtony

Why don’t you try a little more of your signature nuance.

Arlingdude

Theoretically, Congress could in fact pass a law imposing a tax on people who refuse to buy cable TV. Obviously, it would require a 2/3 vote in both houses, plus the president’s signature.

I don’t see this as a big risk.

drax

2/3rds vote? No, just a majority vote, unless there’s a veto override in the mix.

Arlingdude

Actually, it’s 3/5. The 3/5 compromise. Pretty sure that’s right.

(Kidding. You’re right. I forgot.)

Filly Buster

Not any more. Now you have to have 60 votes in the Senate to do anything.

Patrick

Exactly it allows the government to enforce citizens to buy anything they want and to tax those who don’t comply.

not a moron

NO!

dk (not DK)

don’t forget broccoli.

Scott

the oh so compelling broccoli argument

Id

What will stop other mandates? If the Government can make you buy insurance, then what else can it not make you buy?

Suburban Not Urban

Thats the real crux of the issue and what I’ve been saying all along. You can debate the goals and destinations of various parts of the law. But every single congressman that debated this bill on the floor of congress and refused to call it a tax – lied – that’s what the Supreme court ruled and every single voter should hold their elected rep accountable for that.

Id

Whoever voted for this thing, R or D, should be thrown the hell out. The only saving grace is that it was deemed a tax and not expanding the Commerce Clause. This bill has 23 tax increases in it. I thought Obama said he was not raising taxes? We got a tax increase during a barely functioning economy. It’s Carter all over again.

Economist

SCOTUS ruled 8-1 that it’s not a tax.” Only Roberts said it was a tax. Four justices said it’s not a tax and thus unconstitutional; four said it’s not a tax but still constitutional. So what if one justice said the mandate is a tax?

The difference is that, unlike cable TV, health care is absolutely unavoidable. No one can escape the need to seek medical attention. No one. The first medical expense you incur is being born in a hospital! It is unescapable. And this cost continues till the day you die. That’s the premise behind the individual mandate.

If everyone waited until they got cancer to sign up for health insurance, insurance premiums would be even higher. Theoretically, getting healthy people on insurance should bring the cost of insurance down.

did the law specifically state that or is this an assumption (a good one. don’t get me wrong. I see the reasoning.)

D’oh

Also, it’s a tax because of Roberts’ ruling. The other 4 majority ruled it was constitutional via the Commerce Clause. Most legal experts predicted it would stand under the Commerce Clause before oral arguments.

Id

It was found constitutional under Congress’s ability to tax not under the Commerce Clause.

D’oh

That’s what I said. Four justices ruled unconstitutional, four ruled constitutional under Commerce, and ruled (Roberts) said constitutional under tax. Therefore, constitutional under tax.

the real drax

If the government gave you a tax credit for buying cable, would that make it different?

All the Government has to do is get its foot in. What’s next, mandating condoms during sexual intercourse?

WeiQiang

good catch … the administration probably latched on to the transvaginal ultrasound model

John Fontain

Governor said: “infringes on our citizen’s liberties”.

The SCOTUS said this is basically a tax on the uninsured. We have to pay taxes that are used to pay for lots of other things, like contracts with defense contractors. So Mr. Governor, why do you not view mandatory taxes to pay defense contractors an infringement on our citizen’s liberties? Why is it only this one tax that does the infringing?

Patrick

It is really quite simple. This is a tax you must pay if you refuse to buy a product the government says you should have bought. There is no other tax that you have to pay if you refuse to buy a product.

John Fontain

Uninsured motorist. Next.

Gypsy

Only if you have a car. This is a tax or compulsion to buy a product for merely existing. Does such a thing already exist through the fed government? There’s a difference. Next.

Bob

What specific “liberty” does the law infringe? Just curious. Reference to a particular constitutional amendment requested.

CW

2nd – health care takes away from our gun money DUHHHHHHHHH

Bob

Exactly. There’s no specific “liberty” the Tea Party types can point to other than a generalized complaint that this law is oppressive, or unprecedented, or whatever. And these are the same people who claim to be strict constructionists of the Constitution!

Merican

+ 2

the real drax

9th Amendment:

“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

In other words, just because a right isn’t written down in the Constitution doesn’t mean it does not exist.

Bob

If your best argument is that Obama is infringing on a liberty that, although not spelled out in the Constitution, might exist anyway because of the Ninth Amendment, you might as well ditch the whole court system. I think this just confirms that opposition to this law was never about the Constitution or about the infringement of liberty.

the real drax

Why, Bob? That’s part of the Bill of Rights. It’s PART OF THE CONSTITUTION. It was designed to prevent exactly the argument you just made.

The courts have invoked rights that aren’t spelled out in the rest of the Constitution before.

confused

thats about liberties that already existed in common law at the time, not about anything anyone comes up with.

the liberty of life. Of using your earnings in a manner that you see fit. otherwise you do not own your earnings, or work, you are a slave. It is one thing to take out taxes for the community, it is another to force someone to buy a product. instead of public officials having power, you funnel a ton of money to a specific industry. this healthcare law was touted as a humanitarian thing, but in reality, it indentures us to another entity besides the one we have a say in. They play on our emotions, they did it for the patriot act and they did it again with healthcare.

John Fontain

How is this any different from any other taxes you are a slave to paying? Is your family not insured already?

drax

“It is one thing to take out taxes for the community, it is another to force someone to buy a product.”

John, it’s funneling money to an entity outside the realm of public control. it is specific, which sets a precedent. it opens up a lot of corrupt potential, which quite frankly, I would be surprised if no one tried something in the next few years.

Drax, taxes are used to keep the govt and its services afloat. this is keeping a private entity running and there are no checks and balances. you cant vote on anything unless you are a shareholder. all it does is funnel money to the health insurance industry. there is no guarantee that it will get people health care.
I am afraid this is a trojan horse.

Carmen

Are you really trying to compare this to slavery? Seriously crazy. They had no control over their earnings because they did not have any earnings. I paid close to $4000 for health insurance coverage last year. I will pay more than that this year cause my insurance company raises my rate every single year! I am healthy, eat right, don’t smoke and exercise. I do not feel indentured. I am smart enough to know that if something happens to me, i.e. car accident, broken bone, sudden heart attack, etc, that I want to be taken care of without immediately going bankrupt. Hopefully ACA will help lower my insurance rates.. I have given my insurance company way more money then they have ever spent on me. And unlike others, I don’t think my quality of care will suffer just because others have health care insurance too.

John Fontain

boredhousewife, thanks for not answering the questions.

Id

The US Constitution would have never been ratified by the States if they knew such a decision would have been made. This is an expansion of the Federal Government and taxes. Our Country was built with the intension that Government would be limited. This is a sad day for freedom. A sad day for Liberty. You have now been mandated to buy insurance.

John Fontain

Do you not already have health insurance?

John Fontain

“This is a tax or compulsion to buy a product for merely existing. Does such a thing already exist through the fed government?”

This tax won’t apply to those with no or low incomes. It only applies to those with incomes above the poverty line. Are you seriously suggesting that there is no other tax in America that those with incomes above the poverty line have to pay for merely existing? I see the tax every time I get my paycheck. Federal tax, state tax, unemployment insurance, etc., etc. How is this any different?

John Fontain

Another example is property taxes. If you are a resident of Arlington County, you are basically forced to “buy” the services provided by the county just because you live here (i.e., basically just because you exist). You don’t even have to have an income and you still have to pay.

the real drax

Not if you don’t own property, genius.

Gypsy

You can grasp the difference, right John? You owe property taxes because you own property. This is getting boring.

John Fontain

the real drax, whether you own property or not, if you live in the county and pay to do so (via rent, for example) you are paying property taxes (albeit indirectly). To deny this is to not understand the basic economics of rental properties.

Id

And look at the taxes. They keep going up and up. With each increase, you have new “For Sale” signs of those leaving.

Gypsy

You get your paycheck by merely existing? How do I apply for your company? Of course there is income tax–when you earn income. There’s sales tax when you make purchases. I can go on. Those are all actions that you make. You don’t HAVE to buy things and pay sales tax (at least not all the time). You don’t HAVE to work and pay income tax. But if you’re born in this country, by merely breathing air and existing, you owe this tax. I was just responding to “uninsured motorist. next” comment because it was stupid–they are two different things. Argue about the rest of the issues if you’d like, but I haven’t seen a tax that you have just for breathing air. (Unless you’re polluting it, def a tax for that).

John Fontain

gypsy said: “But if you’re born in this country, by merely breathing air and existing, you owe this tax.”

I suggest you read up a bit on this, particularly the aspects that deal with those who are excepted from the obligations. You are incorrect in stating that you owe this by merely breathing are and existing. I’ll even give you a hint, look at other posts in this article that deal with income requirements and you’ll see its no different in applicablity to regular old income taxes (something you don’t similarly voice objection to).

Id

The poor have Medicare and Medicaid. They don’t pay anything. The cost now will be spread to everyone.

jackson

The cost ALREADY spreads to everyone, every time an uninsured person goes through the ER.

dk (not DK)

The wealthy have Medicare, too. That cost is spread to everyone as well.

swattz101

Uninsured Motorist is not paid to the IRS and you only need to pay it if you have a car. You can opt not to drive/own a car and you don’t need to pay insurance. In the case of ACA, everyone will need to have insurance or pay the “tax”.

Washingtony

Uninsured motorist goes to the state residual pool, does it not?

WeiQiang

Not so fast ..

seatbelt … next.

Patrick

Again not forced to buy or ride in cars…next.

WeiQiang

medicare?

Id

By 2016, a family making 30,000 will now be subject to a $2200 increase under Obamacare. That is a lot of money. Welcome, folks.

Id

tax increase.

jackson

Source?

swattz101

There are plenty of laws where you are fined for not doing something, such as not wearing a seatbelt, not wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle, not having car insurance…Probably many others. The difference here is, you don’t have to ride in a car, therefore will non get ticketed for no seatbelt. You don’t have to own a car, therefore do not need auto insurance. You don’t have to ride a motorcycle, therefor do not need to wear a motorcycle helmet.

In this case, you need to have health insurance, or pay a tax…there is no opt out.

John Fontain

And the vast majority of Americans already have health insurance, so for them it is a complete non-issue (no additional tax). For the rest, you only have to pay if you meet certain income requirements. For most who meet the minimum income requirements that trigger the requirement, they’ll already have insurance. So this really applies to a small number of people. Yet we’ve got many saying this is the end of the world.

swattz101

Because it is such a non-issue, and does not affect many people, then why do they need it at all? I’m more afraid of the precedence this sets then the amount of tax I would have to pay if I didn’t have insurance.

There is much that is good in the ACA, but the way it is being forced on us is where I have issues. I have the same issues with other laws, such as the mandatory seatbelt laws, the mandatory helmet laws, New York trying to say I can’t buy anything bigger than a 16oz drink at my favorite fast food joint….The list goes on and on. Don’t get me wrong, I think there are a lot of things that should be mandatory, such as business safety laws to protect your employees. I also think that you are stupid if you don’t wear a seatbelt in an auto, or a helmet when riding a motorcycle, I just don’t think Uncle Sam should tell me I have to.

John Fontain

I agree with you regarding the 16oz bottles and other examples, like preventing McDonald’s from putting toys in happy meals. My understanding of why this insurance requirement exists is to prevent people from waiting until they have a health problem to sign up for insurance given the prohibition on blocking new enrollees with pre-existing conditions.

what happened to the public option? that was dismissed. so here we are forced to pay up to a specific industry. I want people to have access to good healthcare. But in order for that to happen, the costs, standard of living costs, everything is going to have to deflate.

Bender

Supreme Court upholds the greatest TAX INCREASE on the middle class in American history.

That is what people are celebrating?

Yay! Taxes increased on the middle class!!!!

Really?

the real drax

My taxes won’t go up. I’m not a health care freeloader.

Id

Wait until you see what happens to your rates.

Carmen

My rates suck! They are raised every year for no good reason. So hopefully what I will see is them not being raised or going down some. You don’t actually know what will happen to rates.

dk (not DK)

Do you not understand the insurance function? The more people in the pool, the lower the rates.

KalashniKEV

This is the beginning of the end of our once great Nation. Once Obama is done weakening us the Chinese will stop buying our debt and start to release their bonds on the open market. Then, it’s literally the end of the WORLD.

Private James Frazer

We’re Doomed!

Hank

How exactly does ACA weaken the US? And what do the Chinese have to do with it?

Christ, I miss the Cold War.

CW

Except the only reason why the Chinese are in any position of power is because we’re the consumer of their goods. I doubt they are stupid enough to bite the hand that feeds them to the extent that the fearmongerers suggest.

WeiQiang

and they are buying most of the expensive real estate in NYC … i *knew* Bloomberg was a communist

KalashniKEV

Bloomberg is a crypto-fascist megalomaniac. He will get in bed with anyone to line his pockets and increase his power.

WeiQiang

I am, too, but all I use is a suitcase of Miller Lite … right, drax?

drax

We agreed not to talk about that.

drax

P.S. And you can have your stupid chaps back, they don’t fit me anyway.

WeiQiang

Bawdist

KalashniKEV

This assumes that the leaders of Red China care about the dollars and cents of things- they don’t. When the time is right they will pull the rug right out from under us and show the world that “Mao had it right.”

…and it will be worth it, to them.

Lassie

Timmy’s fallen in the well!

drax

There’s a Red under your bed.

Id

The one saving grace is that we are the biggest consumers of Chinese products. If we go down, so does their economy. We are parasitically symbiotic on each other, unless they can build a consumer base other than the US as big as us.

sunflower

quick! loosey goosey! run and tell the king!

dk (not DK)

Mad Max, baby!

R. Griffon

Right. The US will most certainly fall from grace due to everyone having healthcare. Not from the nearly 16 TRILLION dollars of debt with no end in sight, not from the steady erosion of constitutional rights and freedoms, and not from the seemingly unstoppable collusion of big business and special interest in the political process. It’s definitely the healthcare.

KalashniKEV

This certainly falls under there, wouldn’t you say? You just made a statement regarding the macro level. We are discussing one issue, one step closer to the end…

Margrethe II

You know this happened to my country and in Scandanavia as a whole. Now Scandanavia is just one big totalitarian, sicky sick, low quality of life Feces Festival.

Arlingdude

Yeah, I’m sure it really sucks to live in one of the Nordics. Plenty of jobs, free healthcare, free college, clean air/water, wi-fi everywhere–what a hellhole.

Margrethe II

I know, right? I think it started when we let the gays marry.

Id

Work so you can pay a 90% tax rate. What kind of quality of life do you think you would have. The tax rate is to be high to fund all of your “free” perks.

Margrethe II

I know, right? Is it only up to 90%? I thought we had gotten above that already. My subjects are such dolts: they’re happy; they live a long time; they get to travel to the US; they’re very productive; they don’t have to put up with a lot of crime … even the gays can get married. If they only knew how badly they should feel.

Id

If you enjoy being drone, more power to your countrymen.

R. Griffon

Care to substantiate that with a source? Because I’ll bet you can’t. Taxes in Nordic countries (and other OECD nations with a wide range of social programs in general) are often higher than in the US, but not nearly as much as conservatives would have you believe.

90% indeed.

Arlingdude

Yeah, much better to pay 30% and worry about saving for retirement, kids’ college, paying off your own student loans, paying for health insurance after you retire, etc.

I know they pay out the ass for taxes, but then if you have no expenses, that ain’t so bad.

Scott

run for your lives- the end is near!

jackson

Literally?

Sam

Considering that China owns a little more than 8% of the country’s debt, I doubt their “release” will literally cause the end of the WORLD.

The government has now been given carte blanche to interfere in your life and force you to engage commerce. The crux of the decision for me has nothing to do with health care but with the goverment expansion of power it allows.

swattz101

They can’t force you to buy something, but they can tax you if you don’t.

Db

Exactly call a fine a tax so they can force you to make the decision that big brother thinks is best for you. I financial interference from the government no matter what term you use for it is a big government strong arm.

Bob

“Government expansion of power”? Have you given any thought to the mortgage interest deduction? If you don’t buy a house, you are essentially paying a tax that people who buy a house, who get the deduction, do not pay.

This is not about ideas. This is about people not liking Obama. Period.

Id

I love how tax cuts are always painted as to who is paying for them. What about Government cuts, downsizing? You never hear about this. It is a Leviathan that keeps growing when it can, which just sucks the lifeblood out of the earnings of individuals. When does it stop taking from those who produce?

Id

If you are not buying it, then what would make you think you would pay the tax. And if you don’t pay the tax you know have the IRS goons kicking in your front door and seizing your property. Great formula to have, huh.

G Clifford Prout (now moderated for extra purity)

As one who pays for insurance today I hope this does control costs. I do feel as though I’m currently paying for those who pop into the emergency room expecting to be treated yet are unable to pay and are uninsured.

I was thinking the best solution might have been just to turn those people away and have them hurry up and die. My costs would go down and it frees up a bunch of natural resources they normally would have consumed if alive.

Suburban Not Urban

That’s a pipe dream – name one federal program where the same product can be provided at a lower TOTAL actual cost than privately provided. Note this doesn’t mean the cost to the consumer because in those cases the taxpayers make up the difference. Govt regulations, expanded requirements, higher barriers to competion result in higher costs – it’s simple economics. You can argue that we want what the higher costs will bring us – but arguing it will reduce costs is simply unsupportable.

A&P mech

military aircraft maintenance

Suburban Not Urban

I would guess that’s more of a national security issue – if it were true why would we have aerospace contractors instead of built by and for government manf of miltary aircraft.

WeiQiang

first, I said maintenance, not manufacture. second, the answer to your question lies in politics, not in cost.

Opie

You are probably not aware that a lot of military aircraft are actually commercial platforms, and as such are routinely maintained by private maintenance companies who also do commercial maintenance checks.

They do this because it is cheaper.

You’re welcome.

WeiQiang

The post referred to programs, but I’ll take your point. It’s true that commercial programs [small #s of acft] using commercial platforms are less expensive. On military platform programs [arguably the vast the majority of the inventory], my contention remains valid. They do this because it’s cheaper. Thank you.

Opie

“arbuably” the vast majority? Either it is or it isn’t. Maybe you should check the numbers. You might be surprised.

WeiQiang

lol. you won’t find me surprised on this topic. there are small numbers of commercial-based platforms under CLS (C-20, U-28A, T-6, some UAV/UCAV and simliar). the vast majority [please googlize Janes’s or something if you don’t want me to do ALL of your thinking for you] of the US tactical inventory (F/A-18, F-16, U/HH-60 and similar) is government maintained … because it’s cheaper.

back to my original post … there are multiple “programs” (not just one asked for) in which “military aircraft maintenance” is cheaper “than privately provided”.

Debs

Approval of mine safety equipment…much cheaper and better quality than for profit labs.

D’oh

Numerous studies (too lazy to cite them, google for yourself) show that contractors are more expensive than federal employees. Their companies need to charge comparable wages as well as make a profit.

dk (not DK)

The administrative costs of running the Medicare program have consistently been shown to be lower than those of private insurers.

Id

Which is why there is just 90 billion dollars of Medicare fraud a year.

Reality disagrees with you. If this were true, people in countries that offer some form of universal healthcare (read: citizens of every developed nation but ours) would pay far more for healthcare than we do.

Would you care to guess who pays the most for healthcare in the entire world?

Id

It’s expensive, but damn it was good.

dk (not DK)

Exactly. If only people would smoke more. Then they die relatively young and quickly.

THE HEPTONES

Ensuring that millions of uninsured Americans haves access to affordable coverage and people are upset at that?

KalashniKEV

You are glossing over a huge moral issue regarding who pays for what, and what the government can impose upon the citizens.

morals?

I thought you “market knows everything” types eschew the whole concept of morals..you can’t have it both ways mrs Rand! .aren’t morals Vibrant?

jj

This is the first step toward giving up our freedoom. When obama care goes in affect take a look at your pay checks. Nothing is free. Our paychecks will be heavily taxed for this. When do we become a self sufficent nation and leave government to a minimum

WeiQiang

With you, brah! Repeal DOMA!

sunflower

+100!

R. Griffon

I consider myself pretty liberal, and am a HUGE proponent of single-payer universal healthcare, but I also think this was hugely unconstitutional. You can’t tell people that they MUST purchase commercial goods or services from a for-profit business simply because they live and breathe. No way.

drax

And the SCOTUS ruled just that. It said you can’t compel people to purchase a good or service. So you won that part.

You mean the Canada that provides the type of universal healthcare for all of it’s citizens that conservatives hate so much? The Canada that has legally recognized gay marriage for years? The Canada with a lax enforcement of Cannabis prohibition? The Canada that openly embraces French as a second language? THAT Canada?

Odd choice.

LuvDusty

@R.Griffon: EXACTLY! BRAVO! They don’t deserve Canada…send them to Singapore…..

Hank

I was going for irony. I think they have that in Canada, too.

sunflower

i need the accompanying facial expression–being slow on the uptake

Canada

No we don’t have irony… in fact it’s quite quite wrinkly

R. Griffon

*sigh*

Sorry, but irony and sarcasm rarely translate well on the Net. And of course it doesn’t help that so many of these healthcare debates are so overblown, over the top, and full of information that you can’t tell who’s being sarcastic and how actually believes that crap.

I wish you would. And I would love to see you make a doctor’s appointment to see how long it will take you to see one, so that you understand what is going to happen here, as well as the quality of the doctor who sees you.

Healthy Canadian

*yawn* This old saw has been debunked so many times.

Id

Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States. He is expected to be away from four to six weeks.
A decision to leave Canada for the surgery, especially if it is available here, raises questions about the Premier’s confidence in Newfoundland’s health care system.

Id

This is where we are headed.

dk (not DK)

Meanwhile, here in the US, a million people don’t have a prayer of getting the heart surgery they need because there is no way for them to pay for it.

Monica

Big step for civilization. Especially for the narrow minded who are afraid of a change (for better)

Nice try. Problems with the health insurance industry has been an issue for decades now. Clearly, the market doesn’t work and it hasn’t magically corrected itself. While I think the PPACA is not a good piece of legislation, it doesn’t change the fact that the health insurance system is busted.

LuvDusty

@Hank: ok, enjoy the weather, eh?

Honestly folks…the people who don’t see this as a Win are even dumber than I thought.

I am really getting sick and tired, that most of us have to listen to the raving lunatic rantings of a small group of loud people (Tea Party, etc…) who act as though all of us should live in a cabin in Montana, with our arsenal of guns and no health care, pay no taxes, just waiting to overthrow our government at any moment.

Really? It’s 2012, the World is changing and the U.S. has to change with it. The “Free Market” doesn’t work for everything as we’ve experienced over and over as a Nation, so we need to just get real once and for all and join the rest of the developed Nations (and many developing nations) who provide basic health care to their citizens.

Nothing is perfect and ACA will need revision and improvement as time goes on, but it’s certainly way better than what we had before, which was essentially, nothing but wasteful spending every time one of these uninsured a-holes ended up in the emergency bill of our government funded hospitals running up a huge bill on our tax payer backs.

Id

The Tea Party does not want to overthrow the Government. It is a party of limited Government. Let the Government provide roads; secure our borders and don’t take and spend our money that individuals earn. We are a nation built on a Constitution and of Laws. If the world changes, we do not have to change our foundation. A house without a foundation goes to pieces. The US was built on Capitalism. This was what made us a super power. This what allows you to take a credit card and buy a computer to post your note. Show me a government/ economic system that is better?

The Soviet Union tried socialism. Cuba still has it, and its buildings crumbled and the citizens still drive 1957 Chevys from the days of President Batista. If other nations’ basic health care is so good, why do those who can afford it, come here to the US for treatment? Obamacare will make insurance premiums so expensive, government funded hospitals are all we are going to have.

jackson

That’s why all the senior citizens were driving to Canada to buy their meds, huh? Because our fantastic American free market system forced them to choose between rent and drugs or go to a foreign nation to purchase them.

Id

You don’t like the free market system, leave the US. Go tell me how good it is elsewhere.

Jackson

If you hate it so much, YOU leave.

Id

I don’t hate it, I’m trying to save it.

Mitt R Money

Just yesterday, after the abominable Supreme Court decision, I laid out the specific steps to achieve health care security for Americans. Of course, my proposal covered all the same components as the ACA. My proposal, however, didn’t contain one thing that the ACA did: a way to pay for it. Health care is complex, so reform requires a complex system of incentives and benefits, as well as funding sources. The ACA covered all those things, but who would have known that ACA was actually a comprehensive, integrated plan to address the health care crisis. I, for one, was gratified that Congressmen were aping for reporters by punching effigies of Nancy Pelosi – her hair is almost as good as mine – instead of reading the bill. Even now, “Repeal & Replace” is a much better slogan than, “Let’s find out how we can work for the American people to leverage the good things in the ACA to cover legitimate potential shortfalls.” Who wants that kind of 90’s thinking? I tell ya’. If we thought like we did in the 90’s, we might have wound up with something that looks like, well, ACA in the early part of 2000s in Massachusetts.

John Fontain

Id said: “Let the Government provide roads; secure our borders and don’t take and spend our money that individuals earn.”

I know, right. Like look at the money our stupid government wasted on developing the Internet. That money should have either been spent on roads or just not spent at all.

Read it. I can’t see how anyone would get upset with that. Wow, helping people, is a problem?

KalashniKEV

On the upside of this, even if it goes into effect, the level of care in this country will become so miserable (as it is in other countries with socialized medicine) that a lot of the poor people that get great care today out of my pocket will just DIE waiting for an X-ray, MRI, etc…

dk (not DK)

True. The level of health care in other industrialized countries is much, much worse than ours. They have longer life spans and lower infant mortality.

Wait, what?

drax

Is that why the AMA is happy?

“The American Medical Association has long supported health insurance coverage for all, and we are pleased that this decision means millions of Americans can look forward to the coverage they need to get healthy and stay healthy.”

esmith69

I think you need to do 4 things:

1. Do some more research before spouting off these claims about how this is going to make health care in our country “so miserable”, etc.

2. Open up your mind to the possibility that you might in fact be wrong about something. i.e. ;lose the pride and stubborness

3. Try to get your news from a real news source (hint: Fox News does NOT count as news)

4. Move on. The ruling has already been decided. It’s already a law and the law was declared constitutional. End of story. Time for us to move on.

KalashniKEV

No, it’s not over yet. The first person to refuse to pay the tax will have to be compelled by the violence of the government to do so, and then the challenge begins…

Soveriegn Citizen

yeah!

Tre

Can’t tell if troll, or avatar controlled by larger troll…

Hank

Would I be going on a limb to make the assumption you’ve stockpiled canned goods/weapons?

Washingtony

Such wit.

fake drax

It’ll be Waco all over again!

jackson

Stand your ground, Kev! If the government “throws your patio furniture into the street”* then you’re justified at “cutting them in the throat with a kitchen knife”*

*Metaphorically.

drax

And then they’ll go to prison for tax evasion, because the Supreme Court just ruled that it’s a legal tax. And the challenge ends.

Actually, a full 36 of those countries with socialized medicine managed to provide BETTER care for their people than we do here in the United States, and ALL of them did so while spending LESS than we do (and by a wide margin). So maybe you need to explain to us all what is so “miserable” about healthcare systems abroad that outperform ours by nearly every measure on a population basis.

Streetcar

Enough of this analysis, on to more important issues…like how soon can we start digging the Pike up for me? =)

Id

Only if you are a Streetcar of Desire

Jason S.

I’m excited that Medicaid will expand. I look forward to paying more in taxes to support artificially prolonging the life of a American fatties hellbent on eating themselves to death, but lacking the courage to face the consequences for their choices.

Monica

Nice

j

Word.

Id

I’m going to eat a cake just for you. Hell, free medical care for all now. I want a new heart.

Jason S.

I hate people in general. Mostly because the ones I have to see daily are fat, lazy, and incredibly stupid.

mirrorman

you should try not to look in the mirror then

esmith69

oh snap!

Josh

How can the Affordable Care Act be a flawed law (quote from Gov. McDonnell) when the highest court in the land (U.S. Supreme Court) has rule this act is Constitutional? This is a GREAT day in America contrary to Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli’s assessment of the ruling.

“Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

Which you probably also like.

Washingtony

So? What’s your point drax – Kev is ray cessed (I’m trying to skip the filters here)? Ron Paul is? The Tea Party is? I don’t know Kev, I only barely follow Ron Paul’s sayings and writings, and I don’t identify myself as a Tea Partier – and I can still see that this ruling is extremely troubling. You’ve made some good arguments today, but this kind of thing does not lend credibility to the opposite side of Ron Paul’s, or for that matter KalishnaKevin’s arguments.

Buckwheat

Roberts was appointed by Bush, so this really is Bush’s fault!

GC2

Just wait, I think we will find a few surprises in the SCOTUS opinion that can really gut parts of the ACA. I’m giving Roberts the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing.

Lee Perry

Welcome to Arlington. A town where people b*tch about a major overhaul of the health-care system that could extend coverage to about 30 million Americans. Helping people have access to health care, is a bad thing? Man, most of the people that read this page, don’t care about the poor or working class people. So, I am not surprised with some of the comments.

drax

Let’s start a program where the government buys everyone a new car and new house! How could anyone b*tch about that either?

Lee, I support (in general) this health plan, but you’re just dismissing the other side’s concerns instead of considering them. The main issue is that this will cost us money. I think it will save us in the long run, but that’s the discussion.

replytothat

I don’t want to pay for other peoples’ health care. Most of us are fat, lazy, eat toxic crap, no veggies, and then suck the health complex dry with services. What, you have cancer, diabetes, heart disease — what a shock! I’d feel better about us borrowing money to pay for this health care if there was even a smidgen of personal responsibility in this country.