uniftw wrote:Yes, Murray State was left out because there wasn't a suitable 12th according to the university presidents. They are also opposed to 11 for some unknown reason. The B1G ran at 11 for decades. The MWC is at 11. A large part of the issue with 11 is the travel partner issue for VB and WBB. Hideous.

Honstestly 11 with a 20 game conference schedule makes sense right now. The B1G adopted a 20 game conference schedule starting in 2018. OOC games in the upper midwest, even buy games are going to become even more difficult.

Why 11 is such an issue is something I can't figure out.

This. The most important thing should be making the conference as strong as possible in men's basketball. Murray State makes this league stronger. There is no other realistic program out there that can say that. Logistics (and I might add.....manageable logistics that other leagues are already dealing with) should not trump men's basketball conference strength. That would be silly. Sometimes you need to think just a little bit outside the box.

A 20-game schedule would be difficult to work, but I really think it does our league a favor. Most schools are playing D2 and NAIA games anyway, and are having difficulty filling their schedule. This alleviates that problem and allows us to bring in a program that would do nothing but help the league.

You don't announce until the last second - WSU is a rare example of doing it sooner, but even then it happened after basketball season.

By announcing it sooner the conference can/will strip you of the ability to earn an automatic bid into any post season play, meaning you must get an AL in any sport you want to play in the post season on. They will also strip all payouts from NCAA shares.

If we didn't get anything with the STC announcement we won't see anything official until May/June depending on how the baseball/softball teams at the schools joining are doing. It's why Valpo waited until after baseball and softball had been eliminated from their conference tournament before making any comment on it at all. Didn't want the HL to strip any payouts or bids from them. The HL, and everyone, knew Valpo was joining the MVC for about 2 months prior to that but nothing could be done to "punish" them simply because they hadn't acknowledge the MVC even visited them.

Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

uniftw wrote:Yes, Murray State was left out because there wasn't a suitable 12th according to the university presidents. They are also opposed to 11 for some unknown reason. The B1G ran at 11 for decades. The MWC is at 11. A large part of the issue with 11 is the travel partner issue for VB and WBB. Hideous.

Honstestly 11 with a 20 game conference schedule makes sense right now. The B1G adopted a 20 game conference schedule starting in 2018. OOC games in the upper midwest, even buy games are going to become even more difficult.

Why 11 is such an issue is something I can't figure out.

This. The most important thing should be making the conference as strong as possible in men's basketball. Murray State makes this league stronger. There is no other realistic program out there that can say that. Logistics (and I might add.....manageable logistics that other leagues are already dealing with) should not trump men's basketball conference strength. That would be silly. Sometimes you need to think just a little bit outside the box.

A 20-game schedule would be difficult to work, but I really think it does our league a favor. Most schools are playing D2 and NAIA games anyway, and are having difficulty filling their schedule. This alleviates that problem and allows us to bring in a program that would do nothing but help the league.

You don't announce until the last second - WSU is a rare example of doing it sooner, but even then it happened after basketball season.

By announcing it sooner the conference can/will strip you of the ability to earn an automatic bid into any post season play, meaning you must get an AL in any sport you want to play in the post season on. They will also strip all payouts from NCAA shares.

If we didn't get anything with the STC announcement we won't see anything official until May/June depending on how the baseball/softball teams at the schools joining are doing. It's why Valpo waited until after baseball and softball had been eliminated from their conference tournament before making any comment on it at all. Didn't want the HL to strip any payouts or bids from them. The HL, and everyone, knew Valpo was joining the MVC for about 2 months prior to that but nothing could be done to "punish" them simply because they hadn't acknowledge the MVC even visited them.

I found this interview with Jack Watkins (an associate commisioner for the MVC) from the 17th of this month. The discussion of going to 12 starts at the 18:30 mark of the interview. It sounds like we are going to go to 12 for sure based on the way he's talking. When we renewed our contracts with Scottrade, etc, we told them that in 2019 we may very well have 12 teams for Arch Madness rather than 10. Link--> http://www.ktrs.com/the-big-sports-show/

So Murray State is a no brainer #11. He even admitted in the interview that 11 would have been a distaster and that it doesn't really work that well, so I think there is a push to get them in. We all know that they are the team that has a 99% chance of getting added at this point. It's #12 that is the mystery question. We all have our favorite #12 options, but this interview definitely renewed my confidence in us going to 12 for the 2018-19 season, especially at the 20:05 mark when he talks about the tournament for 2019. He says that there would be "back to back days of 12, 230, 6, and 830, then 2 games on Saturday, and the title game on Sunday." Then he says in the next sentence (not sure what the first few words were, maybe something about needing oxygen for you guys),"the year that Arch Madness goes to that, I know I will.

I know nobody asked me but I wanted to throw my two cents in. I certainly understand the motivation for MVC fans to want Murray State. They have had a great run that has turned out several NBA players. The impressive thing to me is that they have done this over several different coaches, so it really leads me to believe that they have a program and not a flash in the pan.

With Murray State being the strong #11 candidate that leads to much debate about the #12 candidate. I personally think St. Louis is the best team that the MVC might possibly target. When I think about the financial and fan impact that Creighton and Wichita State brought to their program I don’t see a lot of teams that can have that type of impact. I think Arch Madness with its prime CBS broadcast on a Sunday only really works with a full arena and a strong alpha program. When I look around it feels like SLU has the best chance of any possible/realistic targets to be a financial, fan and tv player for the league.

I also believe SLU is holding out for the Big East so that gets me to the heart of my post. I know Milwaukee, UIC and Omaha have had their tires kicked by the MVC. UMKC has received some fan attention but they are really far away from being competitive in my opinion and also evaluating their own D1 status. The Dakota schools have been discussed by fans. I wanted to make a case for consideration for my Alma Mater, Green Bay. While it can’t move the needle like SLU can, it compares very favorably to almost any other candidate.

Let me start with the negatives as I am aware that it isn’t all roses in Green Bay. Some of the Olympic sports aren’t good and they sponsor Nordic Skiing which really isn’t a fit for anyone’s profile. The overall budget for athletics isn’t huge but they are competitive financially in hoops but would need an additional bump up. The university has a growing enrollment and endowment but was founded in 1965 so it isn’t a huge school with tons of students and programs. On the financial side the university isn’t loaded. I would submit that the best days are ahead for GB as they are adding programs to turn out really productive undergraduates who over time will make more and donate more. Also, the university is public which I know some won’t like and it doesn’t have a huge graduate program to bolster the academic profile. It isn’t going to be called the Harvard of the Midwest anytime soon.

With the above as a background there is still a strong case for GB. One is branding. Even though the name of the school is the University of Wisconsin Green Bay, the branded name for athletics is Green Bay. Thanks to the Packers pretty much all sports fans know what Green Bay is.

Another is the facilities. The men’s hoops team plays in a 9000 seat arena built in the early 2000’s that has aged very nicely. It is the second nicest in the Horizon League in my opinion. The women play on campus in a university owned arena that is 10 years old and seats 4000 people. This building also has a specific men’s basketball practice gym as well as all of the other amenities you would expect. Right now the university is building a $4,000,000 soccer stadium and updating the softball stadium in the same project. The overall facility package for GB is strong, as strong as any regional mid major.

Let’s be honest though men’s hoops are driving this expansion discussion. Valpo was looked at as a no brainer by most, especially on the outside. In the ten years that Valpo was in the league the teams were 10-10 against each other in the regular season. Valpo did have a 3-1 edge in the post season. Also, GB was 10-2 against Loyola in their last six years in the Horizon. GB is 3-1 against Northern Kentucky. GB has competed well against teams that have been added or discussed.

For additional reference against Butler they were 2-8 in their last 5 years. Against the MVC over the last ten years GB is 3-6. Against high majors over the last ten years they are 4-20 with wins over Wisconsin, Marquette, Virginia and Miami.

The men’s hoops team has finished 4th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 6th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 4th and 3rd in the last ten years of the Horizon League. The 7th and 6th were the first two Wardle years and the most recent 4th was the first Linc Darner year that they did end up going to the NCAA tournament. This is a program that can compete pretty quickly at the MVC level in my opinion.

Fan support has ranged from a low of 2948 to a high of 4086 average attendance during the last ten years. Green Bay does better at the gate as the season moves along, especially when the Packers wrap up and the big conference games start. I think the fan base is strong and they do draw over 5k or 6k for the better conference games. A full slate of better games will only help.

Green Bay men’s hoops have stayed relevant by mostly growing within. They do take in D1 transfers but most of those are regional guys returning home. They do take in JUCO guys to compliment the roster but the core has always been high school recruits. Green Bay has 5 freshmen this year so I would think the trend of sustained competiveness will continue over the next few years.

As an added bonus the women’s hoops team is very good and competitive in the NCAA tournament. They have made the big dance in 15 of the last 20 years and won a game in 5 of those years. Women’s volleyball is competitive now and men’s soccer just won a share of the Horizon League championship.

I know MVC fans want a program that can move the needle of the league and frankly that might be hard to find if SLU doesn’t join. For those fans who will accept a 12th program that can be competitive and build on the MVC brand then Green Bay should be on their radar. In my opinion it is a much stronger addition than most of the schools that have been talked about and I wanted to take a few minutes to share Green Bay’s profile for MVC fan consideration. Thanks for reading and happy hoops season.

Green Bay is a better option than Omaha, UIC, Oral Roberts, UMKC, SEMO, etc. But, I maintain if that's what is out there then wait until someone steps forward. With conferences going to 20 games the MVC might as well follow suit. 11 is perfect for 20 games. I wish they would just add MuSt. and be done with it.

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:Green Bay is a better option than Omaha, UIC, Oral Roberts, UMKC, SEMO, etc. But, I maintain if that's what is out there then wait until someone steps forward. With conferences going to 20 games the MVC might as well follow suit. 11 is perfect for 20 games. I wish they would just add MuSt. and be done with it.

Especially since travel partners are only used in volleyball and wbb. It was a mistake not letting MuSu in this season. (Although I kind of wonder if moving their fb to the MVFC this season was an issue. I think MuSu is in the MVC/MVFC this time next year.)

I think 11, with 20 con games, is the perfect number. Hopefully the MVC and its members eventually see it that way too. There is not a good #12 option out there. Milwaukee would be okay, but I think 11 is the best route to go.

You can make 11 work in VB and WBB because they'd stay at 18 league games. VB can't afford to give up a weekend of tournaments for NCAA at large chances and WBB needs the two extra guarantee games as its a low major league in WBB. You'd have some odd weekends and few more weeknights but its doable.