§ 27. Uttiya: It would be good, lord, if the Blessed One would teachme the Dhamma in brief so that, having heard the Dhamma from theBlessed One, I might dwell alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, &resolute.

The Buddha: In that case, Uttiya, you should purify what is mostbasic with regard to skillful mental qualities. And what is the basisof skillful mental qualities? Well-purified virtue & views madestraight. Then, when your virtue is well-purified and your views madestraight, in dependence on virtue, established in virtue, you shoulddevelop the four frames of reference... Then, when in dependence onvirtue, relying on virtue, you develop the four frames of reference,you will go beyond the realm of Death.— SN 47.16

reducing the five hindrances (right effort) before satipattana and how it leads to jhana (right concentration)

§ 33. Mindfulness & Concentration. Having abandoned the fivehindrances — imperfections of awareness that weaken discernment — themonk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, &mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & ofthemselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed &distress with reference to the world. Just as if an elephant trainerwere to plant a large post in the ground and were to bind a forestelephant to it by the neck in order to break it of its forest habits,its forest memories & resolves, its distraction, fatigue, & feverover leaving the forest, to make it delight in the town and toinculcate in it habits congenial to human beings; in the same way,these four frames of reference are bindings for the awareness of thedisiciple of the noble ones, to break him of his household habits,his household memories & resolves, his distraction, fatigue, & feverover leaving the household life, for the attainment of the rightmethod and the realization of Unbinding.

Then the Tathagata trains him further: 'Come, monk, remain focused onthe body in & of itself, but do not think any thoughts connected withthe body. Remain focused on feelings in & of themselves, but do notthink any thoughts connected with feelings. Remain focused on themind in & of itself, but do not think any thoughts connected withmind. Remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, but donot think any thoughts connected with mental qualities.' With thestilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters the secondjhana...— MN 125

mindfulness of the body (including the more difficult ones I suppose) are essential for enlightenment

§ 42. Whoever pervades the great ocean with his awareness encompasseswhatever rivulets flow down into the ocean. In the same way, whoeverdevelops & pursues mindfulness immersed in the body encompasseswhatever skillful qualities are on the side of clear knowing.When one thing is practiced & pursued, the body is calmed, the mindis calmed, thinking & evaluating are stilled, and all qualities onthe side of clear knowing go to the culmination of their development.Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body.When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clearknowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, obsessions areuprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulnessimmersed in the body.

Those who do not taste mindfulness of the body do not taste theDeathless. Those who taste mindfulness of the body taste theDeathless.Those who are heedless of mindfulness of the body are heedless of theDeathless.Those who comprehend mindfulness of the body comprehend the Deathless.— AN 1.225,

§ 36. Directing & Not Directing the Mind. Ananda, if a monk or nunremains with mind well established in the four frames of reference,he/she may be expected to realize greater-than-ever distinction.There is the case of a monk who remains focused on the body in & ofitself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distresswith reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on the bodyin & of itself, a fever based on the body arises within his body, orthere is sluggishness in his awareness, or his mind becomes scatteredexternally. He should then direct his mind to any inspiring theme[Comm: such as recollection of the Buddha]. As his mind is directedto any inspiring theme, delight arises within him. In one who feelsdelight, rapture arises. In one whose mind is enraptured, the bodygrows serene. His body serene, he feels pleasure. As he feelspleasure, his mind grows concentrated. He reflects, 'I have attainedthe aim to which my mind was directed. Let me withdraw [my mind fromthe inspiring theme].' He withdraws & engages neither in directedthought nor in evaluation. He discerns, 'I am not thinking orevaluating. I am inwardly mindful & at ease.'Furthermore, he remains focused on feelings... mind... mentalqualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — puttingaside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remainsthus focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, a fever based onmental qualities arises within his body, or there is sluggishness inhis awareness, or his mind becomes scattered externally. He shouldthen direct his mind to any inspiring theme. As his mind is directedto any inspiring theme, delight arises within him. In one who feelsdelight, rapture arises. In one whose mind is enraptured, the bodygrows serene. His body serene, he is sensitive to pleasure. As hefeels pleasure, his mind grows concentrated. He reflects, 'I haveattained the aim to which my mind was directed. Let me withdraw.' Hewithdraws & engages neither in directed thought nor in evaluation. Hediscerns, 'I am not thinking or evaluating. I am inwardly mindful &at ease.'

This, Ananda, is development based on directing. And what isdevelopment based on not directing? A monk, when not directing hismind to external things, discerns, 'My mind is not directed toexternal things. It is not attentive to what is in front or behind.It is released & undirected. And furthermore I remain focused on thebody in & of itself. I am ardent, alert, mindful, & at ease.'When not directing his mind to external things, he discerns, 'My mindis not directed to external things. It is not attentive to what is infront or behind. It is released & undirected. And furthermore Iremain focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & ofthemselves. I am ardent, alert, mindful, & at ease.'This, Ananda, is development based on not directing.Now, Ananda, I have taught you development based on directing anddevelopment based on not directing. What a teacher should do out ofcompassion for his disciples, seeking their welfare, that I have donefor you. Over there are [places to sit at] the foot of trees. Overthere are empty dwellings. Practice jhana, Ananda. Do not beheedless. Do not be remorseful in the future. That is our instructionto you all.— SN 47.10

"Suppose that there is a foolish, inexperienced, unskillful cook who has presented a king or a king's minister with various kinds of curry: mainly sour, mainly bitter, mainly peppery, mainly sweet, alkaline or non-alkaline, salty or non-salty. He does not take note of1 his master, thinking, 'Today my master likes this curry, or he reaches out for that curry, or he takes a lot of this curry, or he praises that curry. Today my master likes mainly sour curry... Today my master likes mainly bitter curry... mainly peppery curry... mainly sweet curry... alkaline curry... non-alkaline curry... salty curry... Today my master likes non-salty curry, or he reaches out for non-salty curry, or he takes a lot of non-salty curry, or he praises non-salty curry.' As a result, he is not rewarded with clothing or wages or gifts. Why is that? Because the foolish, inexperienced, unskillful cook does not pick up on the theme of his own master.

"In the same way, there are cases where a foolish, inexperienced, unskillful monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on the body in & of itself, his mind does not become concentrated, his defilements2 are not abandoned. He does not take note of that fact.3 He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, his mind does not become concentrated, his defilements are not abandoned. He does not take note of that fact. As a result, he is not rewarded with a pleasant abiding here & now, nor with mindfulness & alertness. Why is that? Because the foolish, inexperienced, unskillful monk does not take note of his own mind.4

"Now suppose that there is a wise, experienced, skillful cook who has presented a king or a king's minister with various kinds of curry: mainly sour, mainly bitter, mainly peppery, mainly sweet, alkaline or non-alkaline, salty or non-salty. He takes note of his master, thinking, 'Today my master likes this curry, or he reaches out for that curry, or he takes a lot of this curry or he praises that curry. Today my master likes mainly sour curry... Today my master likes mainly bitter curry... mainly peppery curry... mainly sweet curry... alkaline curry... non-alkaline curry... salty curry... Today my master likes non-salty curry, or he reaches out for non-salty curry, or he takes a lot of non-salty curry, or he praises non-salty curry.' As a result, he is rewarded with clothing, wages, & gifts. Why is that? Because the wise, experienced, skillful cook picks up on the theme of his own master.

"In the same way, there are cases where a wise, experienced, skillful monk remains focused on the body in & of itself... feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. As he remains thus focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, his mind becomes concentrated, his defilements are abandoned. He takes note of that fact. As a result, he is rewarded with a pleasant abiding here & now, together with mindfulness & alertness. Why is that? Because the wise, experienced, skillful monk picks up on the theme of his own mind."SN 47.8

'putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world' -is something to start off with and also the end result- there is sutta not found on the internet (SN) where the buddha visits a lay person and he says he has put aside greed and distress with reference to the world using satipattana- the buddha proclaims him a non-returner.

rowyourboat wrote:there is sutta not found on the internet (SN) where the buddha visits a lay person and he says he has put aside greed and distress with reference to the world using satipattana- the buddha proclaims him a non-returner.

Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.

Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,But never soddens what is open;Uncover, then, what is concealed,Lest it be soddened by the rain.

Jechbi wrote:Can you provide a more specific reference than just SN? Thanks.

I think he probably means the Sirivaddhasutta. It is somewhere in the SN's Mahavagga. Sorry I can't be more specific.

In future, please provide traceable citations for all scriptural and commentarial literature quotations. Please remember that this is a sutta study group.Thank you for your cooperation.

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Hi Row,what is with all the quotes? are you trying to get at something specific or something else? this is a study group and discussion is hard with allot of quotes with no aim to anyone or direction in a particular strand in the discussion, or are you just throwing out several discussions?

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

rowyourboat wrote:there is growth and development in the faculty of sati/mindfulnessat an early weak level it is swayed by everything which is going on- one cannot even say that the faculty (indirya) of mindfulness exists here - only the potential of itat the next level we can be aware of things with out getting caught up in it -some of the time at least- here there is space to look on with wisdom, patienceat even higher levels of it's development it can weaken defilements- I read somewhere that it was equivalent to dropping a drop of water on a hot saucepan at very high levels- maybe it could be said to be one of the 'powers' (bala) here

degrees of development could also be explained in terms of degree of detail detected by sati and/or by duration it can be maintained without dropping it

note that the Buddha calls the four foundations of mindfulness the path to the purification of beings, getting rid of evil states etc so it must be able to do this either via samadhi and/or panna that it generates.

Hi RowI am assuming this is for me directly with our little back and forth discussion going on?I agree with the last 'note' and the line before, although I would not make the distinction if someone asked me how to develop satipatthana practice, I would just say there is the breath, watch it. and I do find it difficult to tell how the first section here disagrees with my view that mindfulness is reactive, against your statement that it isn't

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

just curious what is everyones prefered method mentioned in the satipatthana sutta? (besides Anapanasati), and what method do you use for this practice is it commentary or sutta based ?

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

So I have found the mental contents or Dhamma objects to a good meditation for me.

I have seen this chart somewhere recently? or atleast something similar?

and then I realise it may of helped if I provided my preference!

the whole lot it depends on the circumstances I am in.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

so is your practice based on what is said in the suttas or commentary?or do the kilesas tell you this practice is how it is to be done?

PS mine above is from my understanding of the sutta and relevant suttas to the sections as found in the exploration (link below in signature)

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

oh and what methed do you use? please describe it, or link to the relevant close description

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Hi ManapaI wanted to include in this thread various relevant short suttas which would make the satipatthana sutta hopefully clearer. As for our back and forth, I have said all I can say and dont wish to comment on it any further.