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Dojo atmosphere

Reading more about the difference between Okinawan and Japanese way of running the dojo, I was wondering how do you run yours? Are you strict, military like Japanese system or maybe friendly and relaxed?

I run my dojo in a relaxed manner, but not overly relaxed. There are rules, ceremonies and order. Drawback of this is that sometimes people take kindness as weakness; benefits are that it is more like a family and have great support between members.

Students coming from other systems sometimes find difficult to get used to our way, especially from Shotokan.

Encouraging people to kowtow to authority figures, and those with perceived physical advantages, can be detrimental to self-defence. It encourages subservience and not the required defiance. They key needs to be personal empowerment so they want to work hard for their own benefit.

Once you have a room full of hardworking people, anyone new to that environment tends to get carried along by it. We like a joke, and even some friendly micky-taking (always done as a form of endearment). Encouragement is given and enthusiastic praise, when earned, is also forthcoming. A loud “Good job!” goes a long way when people are engaged in a difficult and demanding drill.

In some ways, we are way more “relaxed” than most. In other ways, we would be way more intense than most.

Same here. I don’t think it really works in our part of the world. Requesting to be called “sensei” can come over as aloof. That’s not to say that those groups who make use of it are being aloof, and it’s not to say it’s the same the world over (I know it’s definitely not). In other parts of the world using such titles works and has no such connotations. But in the north of England, I feel it is not culturally appropriate. None of my main teachers ever asked to be called "sensei" either.

Just to throw in a point of view from a middle aged dad who is older than his instructor and whose instructor also teaches his young son and other young kids in the same class....

In out club, we do have a bit of light banter, but we respect all formalities like bowing to black belts, addressing instructors formally etc. In the corridor I will banter with our instructors as ordinary lads, when there are no kids around. When kids are around, it's all formal.

Us adults know that respect is implicit. We know that the man up front has vastly more martial arts skill than we do, and we pay him to teach us. We wouldn't pay him to teach us if we thought he was no good. So the very fact we are there should be enough to prove our respect. But kids don't have that much life experience, and they are not paying to be taught. Kids also naturally don't have the life experience to know where a joke ends, and then there's the old saying, familiarity breeds contempt.

Our instructors need to maintain an air of authority. They don't just teach us skills, they also have the experience to spot when we're in danger of injuring ourselves, for example by repeatedly throwing a kick badly and each time tugging away at a tendon, or injuring others, for example in partnered work maybe not paying full attention or using too much force.

I like to know, when my young son is training across the hall from me, that I can concentrate on what I'm doing, safe in the knowledge that our all seeing instructors will promptly bark if they see something dangerous developing, and that because he's 'not a mate' his bark will be enough to immediately stop the dangerous behaviour or lack of attention. So in front of kids, we all kind of portray our instructors as some kind of god like beings, to be obeyed at all times. Then when there's no kids about, our instructors are just good lads and lasses that we can banter with as mates.

Valid point, I dont teach children, but yes for them it have to be more structure. Relax does not mean unsafe, we have formalities too just not as strict as some. But safety is a prioryty

Sorry. I didn't mean to suggest that a less formal environment is any less safe or anything than a formal one. My point was just that I think it almost has to depend on the make up of the class. I think for the very young it almost goes the other way. I used to be involved with a class where they took kids as young as 4. There there was very little that looked like martial arts. Formality was minimal and all the emphasis was on fun. There was virtually no combat techniques and certainly none against a partner, other than kid throws instructor, instructor makes great theatrical show of falling down. But as the class was mostly about rolling onto mats, general physical activity and tai sabaki at that stage, there was little need for the instructors to be too scary and detached. That's a bit different though to slightly older kids throwing kicks towards each other or even against think air, where familiarity might lead to young minds with short attention spans drifting into dangerous territory. And that's different again to a hall full of adults, who are mature enough to know their limits, understand and minimise risks, and recognise the value of what they are doing for themselves without needing to be barked at.

It’s quite relaxed at our club too. We don’t call our instructor Sensei and we tend to have some light banter. All that is asked is that you try to constantly improve yourself and that you don’t give up and carry on when doing the more physically challenging stuff. My personal thought is that this is where our instructor thinks that the discipline should be.

Kids also naturally don't have the life experience to know where a joke ends, and then there's the old saying, familiarity breeds contempt. Our instructors need to maintain an air of authority.

Les Bubka wrote:

Valid point, I don’t teach children, but yes for them it have to be more structure.

Like Les, I don’t teach children these days. I also agree Anf’s point is a good one for those that do. The atmosphere of the group needs to fit those that make up that group. More formality and structure would be beneficial for kids. Treating adults like children through enforced subservience is not good. Equally, treating children like adults is not good either. “Horses for courses” would be a seem to be an apt phrase.

I think it all depends on the practitioner. In the dojo, we have a more formal etiquette where yudansha are addressed as Mr/Mrs and we do encourage students to call their teacher Sensei, not just as a title but as a term of familiarity. We think it helps with the development of discipline, and similarly we encourage please/thank you, using yes sir/no sir, and so on. Off the mat we still encourage the etiquette but don't demand it. I don't get upset if students (especially adults) address me as Mike. If I run into a student at a store or restaurant, I don't expect them to stop what they're doing and bow to me.

That said, we have had some yudansha get a bit silly about it. One takes it to an extreme and calls out even minor infractions in informal settings. Students pick up on this pretty quick. She's had to learn respect should be earned, not just demanded. Fortunately, she's the exception, not the rule. Unfortunately her behavior creates some confusion, too. One of my students is a police officer, and I had to put him at ease by telling him specifically not to bow to me (or her) when he's in uniform or on duty because I don't want to compromise his authority as a police officer.

It's not just martial artists. I make my living in education, and a few people I've worked with have doctorate degrees. I've seen more than one person at a conference demand to be called Dr So-and-so and remind people each time they forget, just like the black belt I mentioned above. Meanwhile, the superintendent of my current district is Dr Peterson, but he simply has everyone address him by his first name. Students call him Mr Peterson rather than Dr. He's just not that concerned about it.

Short answer: Egos abound, and each dojo's atmosphere is going to depend on the attitude of the guy in charge.

It's not just martial artists. I make my living in education, and a few people I've worked with have doctorate degrees. I've seen more than one person at a conference demand to be called Dr So-and-so and remind people each time they forget, just like the black belt I mentioned above. Meanwhile, the superintendent of my current district is Dr Peterson, but he simply has everyone address him by his first name. Students call him Mr Peterson rather than Dr. He's just not that concerned about it.

That’s an interesting observation and it makes sense that this kind of thing will happen in any environment when titles are used.

MikeOliveri wrote:

Short answer: Egos abound, and each dojo's atmosphere is going to depend on the attitude of the guy in charge.

Our adults class contains some people who have come up from the kids class, and some who teach in the kids class. They get so used to bowing before every time single technique that they keep doing it in the adults class, it drives me round the twist, we must loose ten minutes of training in every lesson lol.

Our adults class contains some people who have come up from the kids class, and some who teach in the kids class. They get so used to bowing before every time single technique that they keep doing it in the adults class, it drives me round the twist, we must loose ten minutes of training in every lesson lol.

Reminds me of my early days in my current club, when I was still learning the formalities. I often joked I might have a t shirt made up with the slogan, If in doubt, bow.