Apple to create a Pandora rival, sources say

Leveraging its mobile hardware and iTunes would make entry into custom radio easy.

On Thursday, "people familiar with the matter" told the Wall Street Journal that Apple is currently in talks to create a custom-radio service, much like Pandora. The same WSJ sources reported that such a service would work on Apple hardware "and possibly on PCs running Microsoft Corp.'s Windows operating system" suggesting the new service might be part of iTunes, rather than a separate app.

The radio-streaming service would not work on devices running Google's Android, sources said.

Apple's bid for a radio-streaming service might be a defensive measure against the growing popularity of Pandora and Spotify, and it may not be a guaranteed money maker for the company. The WSJ notes that Pandora has yet to report a profit despite a revenue growth of 51 percent, largely because royalty costs for streaming music are so high.

But Apple may come out swinging in order to avoid Pandora's struggle. The WSJ's sources indicated that "the licenses Apple is seeking may let it sidestep certain restrictions that typically apply to online radio, including a ban on playing any given song too frequently," and Apple is "negotiating for its own licensing deals with record companies," rather than paying royalty rates set by the federal government, like Pandora does.

Rumors in 2010 suggested that Apple had its eyes on offering a music streaming service, but nothing quite like Pandora has ever panned out for Apple. Instead, in 2011, Apple "clarified" to the Financial Times that it was focusing on making it possible for users to store their music remotely, rather than trying to open a music streaming service that would cannibalize its profit from music downloads.

The WSJ noted that Apple only recently started licensing negotiations, but "people familiar with the current talks say they appear to be more serious than those previous tentative inquiries." Best not to expect any grand announcements at the September 12 event.

The best people can come up with is "Apple's copying Pandora or Spotify"? Come on, put some thought behind it. It would be more like Apple's version of the Zuuuneeeeee Pass. Still a stupid idea, though, on the face of it.

Uhh, the fact that Pandora does not need iTunes alone kills any copycat Apple can come up with... ahh, I forgot, that's what will make it another "Apple innovation", I guess.

As much as I like Pandora, they seem to have a fairly limited selection of music they can offer. At least that's the way it appears to me based on how often I encounter repeats. Honestly if anyone could do a better Pandora than Pandora, it'd be Apple.

Apple is announcing the iPhone 5 on the 12th. The big "5" shadow indicates this.

They're not going to put up another offering to distract people with and reduce the focus on their new phone.

Like the Apple TV set (not the set-top box, the actual TV being rumoured) there's no substance beyond "we think" and I'll bet that the sources are more like internal monologues than actual people who know hard facts.

It makes sense.... but I dont think its a great idea. Because how integrated Apple makes their first party apps makes it VERY hard for others to compete in the same space... This would be way different than Google creating a pandora like application - even though once you install an app like Google Music it is completely integrated with the OS, you still have full control on what music app you want to be your default, etc...

Because of the social integration with Facebook already I wouldn't be surprised if they [Apple] integrate spotify instead of creating their own...

...and then they will get a patent on something related to this project and attempt to sue Pandora.

I can't wait for the news that Apple was granted several patents involving touching an onscreen icon of an equilateral triangle pointing to the right that allows you to play the music and a square (with rounded corners) icon that will stop the music if you touch it.

As a Geek-ish comedian I can only say that Apple is the gift that keeps on giving

Joke aside though: As a closed system and considering the (Apple) company's attitude of banning software that competes directly with their own, will Apple remove the Pandora App from the App Store?

...and then they will get a patent on something related to this project and attempt to sue Pandora.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Pretty crumby and very 1990's MS style move too. Apple is becoming quite the beast. And Wall Street loves it. As they say about flies....

It's not the first time they have ripped the guts out of some Apple 3rd party software company. Does Pandora make an app for Windows7- 8 mobile? I will be upgrading to a Nokia Lumia 920 and I hear MS pays developers too;)

Joke aside though: As a closed system and considering the (Apple) company's attitude of banning software that competes directly with their own, will Apple remove the Pandora App from the App Store?

In the App store, I searched for "mail", "calendar", and "browser" and came up with a few thousand iPhone apps for each. My guess that a few of those are actual mail, calendar, or web browser apps. So, I'd say no.

Poor Pandora. I've been a sub for years, because I think they have a damn good idea and a great product, and they've been shit on by the copyright system since the beginning, and now Apple will either crush them with ubiquity or threaten to sue them out of existence. I don't usually personalize corporations, but Pandora had an earnings report a year or so back that showed that for each additional customer they had, the overall rates would increase. Say, 10k subs = 45%, 50k subs = 50%, 100k subs = 55%. There's just no way to win in a game like that, you can't grow into profitability when your only significant expense increases more quickly than your revenue.

This was the crux behind the move to make satellite and radio stations play the same rates for all their broadcasts: depending on what kind electricity the music moves across, it can either be royalty-free (radio) low-rate royalty of a few percent on your gross (satellite), or 50%+ of your total profits (streaming).The hope was that shoving everyone into the streaming hellhole, something would actually get changed. Looking less likely these days.

I'd be pretty pissed if I was a big iOS developer that contributed to the popularity of the iPhone just to have Apple take my idea and integrated it into the OS.

Lurker deep wrote:

Sixclaws wrote:

Joke aside though: As a closed system and considering the (Apple) company's attitude of banning software that competes directly with their own, will Apple remove the Pandora App from the App Store?

In the App store, I searched for "mail", "calendar", and "browser" and came up with a few thousand iPhone apps for each. My guess that a few of those are actual mail, calendar, or web browser apps. So, I'd say no.

I can't speak for the others, but the browser apps are all just Safari wrappers. Nothing else is allowed

...and then they will get a patent on something related to this project and attempt to sue Pandora.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Pretty crumby and very 1990's MS style move too. Apple is becoming quite the beast. And Wall Street loves it. As they say about flies....

It's not the first time they have ripped the guts out of some Apple 3rd party software company. Does Pandora make an app for Windows7- 8 mobile? I will be upgrading to a Nokia Lumia 920 and I hear MS pays developers too;)

Good Lord, you post this with utter baseless supposition, and tack on the fact, of which nobody gives a shit, about upgrading to the vaporishly presented Lumia 920.

...and then they will get a patent on something related to this project and attempt to sue Pandora.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Pretty crumby and very 1990's MS style move too. Apple is becoming quite the beast. And Wall Street loves it. As they say about flies....

It's not the first time they have ripped the guts out of some Apple 3rd party software company. Does Pandora make an app for Windows7- 8 mobile? I will be upgrading to a Nokia Lumia 920 and I hear MS pays developers too;)

Good Lord, you post this with utter baseless supposition, and tack on the fact, of which nobody gives a shit, about upgrading to the vaporishly presented Lumia 920.

Bravo.

Edit: I've been a huge fan of Pandora since the early days. I've discovered more great music through their service than any other, bar none. And I also appreciate their time and effort to not just corral music by genre, but by actually hiring human beings to vet the music.

I'm typing this on a new iPad while watching a season of Law & Order that I purchased through iTunes. If Apple attempts to proactively eviscerate Pandora, our relationship will end very quickly. (My not small amount of dollars invested in the iTunes ecosystem de damned.)

...and then they will get a patent on something related to this project and attempt to sue Pandora.

I'm about ready for stupid posts like this to get moderated. This is getting tiresome.

Thanks for your consideration.

Why? He's probably right. It's not trolling or anything, they are legitimately that stupid. I was thinking the exact same thing in my head and I wasn't telling a joke to myself.

If it's a joke, it's not a funny one because that horse is dead.

Comments like that need to be moderated heavily. They are nothing more than flame-baits. I mean, the guy was obviously not looking for an intelligent response when he posted it (I doubt he himself is very intelligent). Rather, he was just trying to annoy people.

...and then they will get a patent on something related to this project and attempt to sue Pandora.

I'm about ready for stupid posts like this to get moderated. This is getting tiresome.

Thanks for your consideration.

Why? He's probably right. It's not trolling or anything, they are legitimately that stupid. I was thinking the exact same thing in my head and I wasn't telling a joke to myself.

If it's a joke, it's not a funny one because that horse is dead.

Comments like that need to be moderated heavily. They are nothing more than flame-baits. I mean, the guy was obviously not looking for an intelligent response when he posted it (I doubt he himself is very intelligent). Rather, he was just trying to annoy people.

I agree. If I remember correctly, there was a post by an Ars admin some time ago about more diligent moderation on the front page forums but, IMHO, they have been few and far between.

That said, I do enjoy a good back- and- forth between trolls and informed posters.

"the licenses Apple is seeking may let it sidestep certain restrictions that typically apply to online radio, including a ban on playing any given song too frequently,"

I can't see how this would help them at all in lowering royalty rates. It would mean that individuals would be listening to more variety, different songs from different artists and that would cause the royalty rate per user to be spread much thinner than if they were able to blast the same song as often as they wanted.

No lawsuits here, but really, this is why I and countless others hate the patent system - prior art clearly existed.

Where? Harmonix doesn't have a patent on this, nor is this in Rock Band. The patent is specifically for determining whether a user is on key for a particular note AND using their modified voice to provide feedback if they're off. At its most simplistic, might be comparing FFTs to determine, but the claim is specific to modifying the voice to provide audible feedback.

....and it will be rapidly patented and Pandora will be sued. Or, Apple will launch an offensive against Pandora that will force them out of the market. Any newcomer thereafter will be sued for breaching patent rights.

....and it will be rapidly patented and Pandora will be sued. Or, Apple will launch an offensive against Pandora that will force them out of the market. Any newcomer thereafter will be sued for breaching patent rights.

....and it will be rapidly patented and Pandora will be sued. Or, Apple will launch an offensive against Pandora that will force them out of the market. Any newcomer thereafter will be sued for breaching patent rights.