59 comments:

Jesse
said...

Hi my name is Jesse. I am 13 years old and i listen to my father a lot about subjects like this. From everything i haved learned, i believe that God hated Esau because he chose to hate him...it had nothing to do with what Esau did...If you read Romans 9:11, it says "Even before they had been born or done anything goood or bad..." then Romans 9:13, "...I have loved Jacob but Esau have i hated"...Clearly these verses are trying to make a point that Esau and Jacob had nothing to do with gods love, It was God chosing who he would love and who he would hate. Some people think its because Esau was an evil man, but Romans 9:11 clearly says that before they had done ANYTHING...God loved jacob and not esau...it was not up to them...it was up to God.

I hope this helps some people if they dont understand why god hated esau. But one thing i know, is that many people HATE it when i say god doesnt love everyone. Too bad people, he doesnt love everyone...so pray and ASK for acceptance FROM God...only way to heaven is through him, not us...we are nothing.

If god's love or hate is so completely unfair, why should I care at all what god thinks of me? I could kill babies and god would love me best then Mother Teresa just because.Even if such a god existed, everyone with any sense of morality would be moraly obligated to ignore him. Few things have ever felt better to me than finally concluding that all religion is at best fairy tales and at worst evil-intented lies.

Love the presence of an emotion, hate is the absence of love. Since God did not love Esau (relative to Jacob) this might be all you need to understand the passage.Clearly believers understand that grace is wonderful, but what would grace mean if it were dispensed equally. There is a vast philosophical literature on the desirability of equality. This theology (a special form of philosophy) is clear on the undesirability of equality. There are degrees of understanding which have to be acknowledged. The biblical literalists will have a hard time justifying hate as the presence of an emotion. But this gets added to wrath and other anthropomorphic qualities which are assigned to God. It may be possible to believe in the New Testament (as a theology / philosophy) without accepting that the book of Genesis is literal. A similar claim about the New Testament would be devastating to any person of faith, so that would not be allowed. So in the case that the stories of genesis are a basic of common lore, the allusion to Esau as the one that God hated merely stands in for the comparison between the ones that have grace and do not have grace. Since faith is considered here as all that is needed for salvation, it becomes queerly deterministic. The major loophole in the logic comes when Paul explains that we cannot understand God, which we use human language and ideas, but that the meaning which is being approximated is not accessible by us. It is either really deep, or a major dodge. If it is not deep, it is not worth worrying over, but people of faith must believe it is deep or find something else to occupy them.

God does not hate in the sence that we see hate. When you read the bible you much read it as a whole not just a verse here and there.

In Mark 10 there is a man who walks away from Jesus. He rejects Him because he loves his possesions more than the truth, yet it says Jesus loved him.

Will He save him? No, but God will not take joy in that. He is, "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9

I believe hate here is just contrasting how great his love for Jacob was. Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Is He realy saying it is a requirement to hate these people here? No, absolutly not, He is saying your love for Him must be so great that your love for others seems closer to hate in comparison.

When you read the bible you much read it as a whole not just a verse here and there.

Reading it as a whole give only more attention to all the discrepancies, continuity errors, moral stances most people either religious or non-religous would consider ludicrous today, as well as a good dose of scientific inaccuracies.

Easiest way out of all this would be if God used his omnipotence to simply travel back in time and knock that darn apple out of Eve's hand. Or use his omnipresence right then and there to achieve the same. 8)

I think you are mistaken in your view of God and the Bible. The Bible does not have any discrepancies when read together and each passage is put into its right context. Furthermore I don't think that God hates anyone. In this passage about Jacob and Esau, what is being pointed out is that God chose to use Jacob rather than Esau to father his people that would eventually lead to Jesus. This had nothing to do with what they did, but God simply chose Jacob. This does not mean that God hated the person Esau, but rather he is using this word as a contrast in choosing Jacob over him when tradition was to choose the older son for this kind of thing. Also, looking at the life of Esau, there were no indications in the way he lived to show that God hated him.There are other parts of the Bible where the word "hate" is used as a means of contrast and not actually to mean hating the person.

I think that whoever it was who said giving up on God is just taking the easy way out. When you truly study and keep an open mind about what is true you will find that the evidence for Christianity is overwhelming and that almost all questions can be answered.

Lastly God did not use his omnipotence or omnipresence to change what Adam and Eve did because he has given us free will. We have the choice to follow God as well as the choice to turn away from him.

I have struggled with this passage but not as much why God hates Esau but why did He love Jacob. Jacob was a scoundrel, an unattractive momma’s boy. Esau was apple of his father's eye; a man's man. Why would God tell Rebecca two nations dwell in her womb and the greater will serve the lesser? What did Jacob possess to receive God's favor and what can I learn from this? Is God unfair? God says there are seven things God hates and arrogance is at the top of God's list. When I look at Jacob's actions I don't see a lot to be admired but can say arrogance is not one of them. Jacob sought his father's favor even to deceive him to receive his blessing; he worked 14 years for the love of his life; he was crippled by God when he wrestled God for his blessing. From his birth he sought to be blessed no matter how. As despicable as he was it is clear he wanted God's favor. In Esau there is no evidence of him seeking God. Esau despised his birthright; Esau broke his father's heart with women he sought for himself. Esau was strong, ruddy, self-sufficient and arrogant. He was his own god and the father of a nation of godless Edomites. King Harod was an Edomite probably the last of his line. He jailed and later killed John the Baptist for exposing his wickedness. He feared what he had done but was too arrogant to repent or seek after the kingdom of God. His kingdom was for now and he lavished on himself. He knew John's ministry and the prophecies of Christ and feared who Jesus could be. He asked Jesus if he was the Christ but Jesus never responded to him. This is the only recorded example of Jesus refusing to respond to anyone. Jesus despised the house of Herod. Today I have met many decedents of Jacob, but I have never met an Edomite but I have seen many arrogant men and nations like Esau and his decedents. Does God hate? I think so and for very good reasons. God will not be mocked.

From where I stand, it seems that a God who is omnipotent and omniscient has the right and the means to love or hate whoever he wants. And to judge someone that is all-knowing seems a little arrogant to me, Starets, doesn't it? It seems that only someone with ALL the facts-- to the point of even knowing motivations behind actions-- would be able to form a pretty solid opinion of someone's character.

God reveals himself in the Bible and in creation. And he puts forth to us that there is no formula for winning his love. If you know him, respect him, and love him for who he is, then why wouldn't he love you, too? I've never read anywhere in the Bible where there was someone who truly loved God and God returned hate. Overall, I'd say that is pretty reasonable.

So if you want to judge the God of the Universe, go ahead. Seems a little silly, though, to me-- you're basically saying that if there is a God, he or she is not as good as you. Now THAT'S hard for me to believe.

I can believe that there is a creator of the Universe who created me and cares for me and is beyond my understanding. If he's smart enough to create everything I know and keep it all going, he's way smarter than I am and smarter than anyone I've ever met. It just makes sense. And if he says he hates someone, he's probably got a good reason.

Jesse made a point but in his youth missed one thing. Good job Jesse but heres what you missed.

Because God knew you before you were born means he literally knew you, talked with you and knew your very soul. It also means that God knew the direction you would take and already harbors hate because you will not change due to your very nature. He knew you were a rebellious soul and already knows you are going to rebel in the future (after being born in human life). In the Garden God said to someone and the simple Preachers who have no real love of God claim it was Christ, but they are wrong, he was talking to the serpent, Satan. he said Let's make man in our image. This is a very important line that 99% of people miss or pass over. Ask your self this, other than Adam, Eve and God there was ONLY one other that had conversation and it was the Serpent with Eve. Theres a hint Who God was talking to.

God hated Esau because Esau was in rebellion BEFORE being born from a spiritual being into flesh.

God is spirit.

Satan is flesh

Mankind is the evolution of spirit and flesh.

God knew when Esau became both flesh and spirit his rebellion would worsen as it did. Thus he hated him. Today the sons of Esau ravage the world with evil, they have inter married with all races and work to steal back the birthright Esau gave up in his rebellion. If you study this long enough and hard enough you can see them and see how they deceive others. The Edomites are lived in the past 2000 years in the very halls of power. Many of them both believers and NON believers both hate and mistrust. Problem is the Non believers often fall victim to the Edomites. I would challenge a non believer to make an exhaustive study of who they are from a biblical perspective and you may find out who they are today, by their fruits (actions).

To answer tour question. First I need to clarify things as to not make my answer too confusing or complicated.

Jrich is right, but think of it this way, if your dog deliberatley poops on the carpet right in front of you in defiance most people will loose it. I have seen that happen. Now they did NOT create that dog. God not only created man, but he is the mastermind of evolution, the literal creation of "matter" and is the one who turned pure energy (spirit) into other forms (matter) yet we as rebellious people have no problem putting a boot to a dog who is defiant, but when we are defiant want to say God is harsh for doing the same. Yet we blunder through life committing acts of evil and think that THE Creator has no right. If I build a shed outside with my own hands, I have the RIGHT to destroy it, yet how can I say that God has NO right to hate me for me being evil?

God does not hate read heads Moses was a red head. Read the bible.

God hates those who he gave life to and they poke their fingers in his eye and tell him where to go. God hates those who destroy other human beings souls. leading people away from salvation violates the simple laws of the Universe. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, this law every man accepts so why not accept GODs laws, he made the other ones we accept.

Man tends to pick and choose what laws he wants to obey, we already know that ignorance of the law is no excuse, and we accept that when it comes to MANS law, but refuse to accept GODS Law.

The Bible plainly says why God hated Esau. It was because Esau sold his birthright for a mere bowl of stew. By selling his birthright just because he was hungry and exhausted, he was showing he despised God. God and evolution do not go together.

Don't you think its kinda scary how Christians can read the Romans 9:11-13, (right in the new testament!) where it bends over backwards to stress that God choose to hate Esau just to prove he could hate whoever he wants and STILL insist that God is Love?

Unlike us, He can not turn on Himself. We are known for self-mutilation and hatred. It's impossible for God to hate.

I am clearly unable to explain why that scripture reads as it does. Like many others in the bible: One as an example would be (from memory) about Joseph and Mary. It says, Joseph did not know Mary. Of course he knew her! It means in a sexual way, he did not know her until after she'd given birth to Jesus Christ.

The Bible is full of mysteries. Our ways are not His and neither are our thoughts like His. His ways and thinking are far superior to our own. That is one reason there is grace and mercy available to us because we accept it all by faith.

So, I try very hard not to lean on my own understanding about many things just acknowledge Him as my Lord and Savior.

Another thing I do is try to be a light and good witness but let everyone work out their own salvation. Man does not own a heaven or hell to put me in but I know who does. I would rather err on the side of heaven and believe.

I believe God is love and is incapable of emotional hatred. How do you spell relief? B-e-l-i-e-f! I believe!

In the Bible, the word hate is often used to mean 'love less' rather than the opposite of love. For example, Luke 14:26 - "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Hold on everyone. I used to struggle with this very scripture myself until someone who had studied this gave a group of us the translation of what God was actually saying here. It was simply this. God saw that Jacob's heart could be worked with and Esau's heart could not be worked with to accomplish what he wanted through future generations. God did not literally hate Esau but saw where Esau could not have any place in his heart for what God wanted in his life. And remember that even though Jacob received the BLESSING his leaning on a staff to walk was a symbol that to receive this blessing he must lean on God all the days of his life. Does God hate his Children the ones whom he created? No he doesn't. That's not what the word hate means hear. It could be possibly said like this. I hate that Esau's heart is the way it is and I can not use him for my purposes therefore I choose Jacob for he will make a place for me.

Hold on everyone. I used to struggle with this very scripture myself until someone who had studied this gave a group of us the translation of what God was actually saying here. It was simply this. God saw that Jacob's heart could be worked with and Esau's heart could not be worked with to accomplish what he wanted through future generations. God did not literally hate Esau but saw where Esau could not have any place in his heart for what God wanted in his life. And remember that even though Jacob received the BLESSING his leaning on a staff to walk was a symbol that to receive this blessing he must lean on God all the days of his life. Does God hate his Children the ones whom he created? No he doesn't. That's not what the word hate means hear. It could be possibly said like this. I hate that Esau's heart is the way it is and I can not use him for my purposes therefore I choose Jacob for he will make a place for me.

We have to look at what Jacob and Esau represent. Esau on the outside looks as one who is a godly man. On the inside he was a wicked man who held no value to eternal life and so he sold his birth rite for a bowl of soup. On the other hand we have Jacob who so rightly sought after the birth right Esau traded him that he wouldnt let it go. He did sin by tricking his father but it was for his eternal inheritance. He so wanted eternal life with God that he put everything in this world on the line to get. He even wrestled with God over this issue and won for he was after Gods heart and Esau was only after the things of this carnal world rather than seeking to know and have a relationship with God. God loves those who seek after the spirit and seperates those from him or makes enemy of those who seek after the flesh thus doing evil. If you look up hate in the orginal hebrew you will find this defination: saw-nay'A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

So yes God loves us all and wishes that we all seek him in the spirit but he gave us free will and when those of us decide to reject Him, His Son, or His Spirit we make ourselves an enemy of God and condemn ourselves in eternal seperation from God. SO I ask all of you, repent (change your sinful ways) and accept Jesus as your saviour and be baptised in the Holy Spirit and make not yourselves desolate as Esau.

And to respond to everyone else who comments on predestination... God hated Esau before Jacob before they did anything is because God stands outside of time. God is the beginning and the end forever more.. Time only belongs to those in the physical realm. God has total wisdom and knows what we are going to do before we do, yet he allows us to do it and allows us to run our course in the name of free will. We still make our own choices however God already knows the choices we will make for He is the only one with true total knowledge. In Gods eyes "It is done"

God loves all in a sense. He has allowed man to live in a sinful, disobedient state; neglecting God, and living depraved.

However He has a special love for His saints. Romans 8:28 can be used to show this. God does not love all equally, and Jesse is pretty much a beast little kid.

Also, hate is not the absence of love. Indifference is. Hate is a form of love, some emotion towards someone is better than none at all.

Finally, to claim that religion is a fairy-tale shows only one thing. One who claims this is misinformed and ignorant, as well as close-minded.

To sum, God DOES love everyone, in a sense. The fact that we are allowed life is an act of love from God. However, deuteronomy 2 is clear that God takes delight in destroying those that oppose him, and in John he explains that His wrath abides on those who reject him. His act of "love" towards the world is that of allowance to live. His greater love towards His saints however, is that of saving grace, and only for his saints. This is His actual love, not just an act.

And heres the part that YOU missed mah boy. If God knew you already and what you would do in advance before you were born or became this mesh of spirit and flesh... then free will is OUT THE DOOR and being "saved" is now pointless. You have no choice in the matter no matter how good your heart may be or how hard you try. It wont matter. Tough titty. See how that works? Pretty stupid eh? Whats the POINT to Christ then and aiming to please God if in the end you will fail Him anyway just as He knew you would. LMFAO Its all rediculous. ALL OF IT.Trust me... I know... ive tried for YEARS to have faith and believe and be a good person worthy of Him all my life since I was a little one. It seems He has turned a deaf ear to my pleas and my kindness and my faith before I finally gave up. Why should I bother anymore if He never cared at all. If He ever EXISTED at all. Its HIS problem now... maybe He should have listened and should have been there for me to give me the chance He blatantly REPEATED in His "good book" that He would. Guess Gods a liar like all the rest of us. And a DAMN good one. ;)CHEERS

To GolduckSilverblade. I am so sorry that you have stopped in your search for Christ. I know the predestination/free will thing might be confusing. I would urge you to please take some time and think about it...with an open heart and mind. God sits outside of time. When He made this universe, when he created space, he also created time and set it in motion. So time is bundled with space and matter (the world that we can physically see) But God sits outside of time. That is where eternity starts...and never ends. It just IS. Its all about perspective. From his perspective "our world" is over. Heaven has already been established and the people are there who chose to be when they were inside of time.

Think of it this way: When someone dies, there soul leave our universe...they exit time. Lets say this person is going to heaven. When they get there and and look around they will see people that they just left on Earth. people that from our perspective are "still on Earth"...weird isn't it? So when your Mother dies and goes to Heaven, from our (worldly) perspective you two are separated. But when she gets to Heaven you will be there too!

We do have free will. Because we are caught in a world with time. I have the choice to choice to follow Him or live for myself. But he already knows what I will chose even if i'm unsure. Does it make it any less of a choice? NO! Right now...while I'm stuck in time... I have the choice. And sometimes it seems so much easier and all the more tempting to do the live for myself. After all if theres nothing after this life then why wouldn't you? Life is hard. We are all imperfect. Life not easy for anyone and walking in Faith is not easy for anyone. You will have second thoughts. You will have doubts. Its what we choose to do with those thoughts that determines our future...and ultimately our eternity. I really don't want to say that to scare you away. I feel like too many people use the scare tactic. That just pushes people away.

I know it can be hard to try to do your best and do good works and try to be a good person to live for God and not feel any closer to him. That is because our works (actions,words,motives) DO NOT get us any closer to God. We can not work our way to him. If we could get there by our works then we wouldn't need Jesus. We wouldn't need a Savior. Our best works look like filthy rags in Gods eyes. It is by Faith and Faith alone that we are made right with God.

Lastly I BEG you to please comment back. If you would like to talk personally about problems, concerns, anything i would be more than happy to give you an email. I am not a know it all religious person. Far from it. I am so full of imperfections and problems. If you or anyone out there has the need to talk to another imperfect sinner i will gladly be that person. We all have problems, doubts, questions, concerns about this and many other theological questions. Lets minister to each other.

Why do so called Christians insist that when someone dies they go directly to heaven despite the Bible saying otherwise? No one goes to heaven and no where does the bible say this. You are in the grave till that day of Judgment.

I see your point. But again its all about perspective. When someone dies they pass into a world without time. Into eternity. So the day of judgment is right then. And everyone is there. They don't have to "wait" in the the grave. Waiting is an implication of time passing. They are outside of the law of time. They die, and boom, the Day of Judgment. And people are there that they thought (from their perspective) they left on earth.

When Jesus said to the thief on the cross who put his trust in him. "Today" you will be with me in paradise. He told him "Today", not 2000+ years from now.

When that thief died he was passed into eternity(no time) and we are all there. me and you. On one side of God or the other. But from our perspective we are still here. The end has already been decided.

This is a very complicated topic because its so difficult to picture a No time. It just IS. I hope i have helped depict this even just a little. I'm sorry if my explanations are not the best.

Be careful not to complicate the word of the Father. he made it clear that when one dies he/she is in the grave till that time of Judgment. To say otherwise is blasphemy. The dead have no sense of time, yet they will be in the grave till that time of Judgment. The thief on the cross we know nothing about other than what the Savior Yahushuah said. We can take this one incident at face value or assume he also waits judgment. But to imply that we still technically go straight to heaven contradicts and complicates what the father said, and this crypto Romanism is a dangerous walk for anyone.

Just as Esau whom the Father hated earned this hat by his throwing away that gift of the birthright, a arrogant act of disrespect and disobedience to the laws of the almighty Father and to the Father.

Christians today lipsync the Anti-Christ Roman lies as if they were facts. The bible shows us otherwise. Ones soul is in danger is one disputes the Word of the Father.

I see. Like I said I am not an all knowing Christian person. Actually new to the faith. Can you please give me the bible verses where it talks about how you're in the grave till that day? was just going off of what I've been thought in my walk so far. What are the anti-Christ roman lies that you're talking about? Any information and help is much needed and appreciated Thanks.

1Corinthians 15:20-23 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. According to this verse, the dead in Christ will remain in their graves awaiting the order of resurrection. What is that order you ask? Jesus is the "firstfruits of them that slept" And then those that are believers in Jesus will "be made alive". But when will they be made alive? According to the Bible, they will have to be made alive in the order that the Lord set up. Jesus, the "firstfruits" and then those that are His followers, "at His coming" ...Rather blunt is it not?

• John 11:23,24 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Martha, the sister of Lazarus understood the biblical truth about the state of the dead. She knew Lazarus wasn't going to awaken until the last day when Jesus splits that eastern sky at His second coming. The book of Job also mentions the length of sleep for the dead. • Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.Notice the word till in that verse. This means the dead will not, or cannot awaken until the last day as Martha calls it in the previous verse shared.

here he questions how long shall he lie in his grave waiting to again know GOD and his savior. he fully acknowledges he knows he will have no memory, thought and existence till the second coming and resurrection.

• Psalms 6:3-5 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

It appears MR Wells has not the knowledge to discern or understand the difference between Pagan Roman Cult pseudo Christianity and the relative unknown of real Christianity. I once was just like him, then I discovered the truth hidden by Rome. Me Wells has asked us to take it elsewhere so if Mr Wells would indulge me and forward my email address to Steve it would be greatly appreciated. If Mr Wells would allow me I will also leave a URL http://inquisitionupdate.org/

Mr Wells might also find it interesting and in more agreement with his thoughts than he could imagine. The site owner and I are friends.

Not only you are dwindling in unbelief, but if you die in your unbelief you will end up in a place call Hell. Your question is not genuine. It seems to me you just want to mock and ridicule the Bible which is the Word of God. The same Bible states:

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him (Proverbs 26:4).

And I love this one from Jesus Christ whom you hate steve:

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you (Matthew 7:6).

God knows the future before it happens. I dont agree with Jesse (sorry Jesse no slight intended here) telling people He dosent Love everyone. I believe that God knew ahead of time what Esau would choose to do! Esau had free will, and sold his birthright for a bowl of porrage. God knew ahwad of time what Essau would do! Simple.

God knows the future before it happens. I dont agree with Jesse (sorry Jesse no slight intended here) telling people He dosent Love everyone. I believe that God knew ahead of time what Esau would choose to do! Esau had free will, and sold his birthright for a bowl of porrage. God knew ahwad of time what Essau would do! Simple.

@ william...do you follow pastor arnold murray?? if you do, that answers a lot about why you believe what you believe! :/anyway, God knew who would follow him and who wouldnt....who He wanted to carry out His "plan". He knew the descendants of Esau would not follow Him and therefore He loved Jacob and his descendants. I don't believe God hates anyone but he "hated" the fact that Esau and his descendants would not follow Him and would be a down right sinful people. But like someone else mentioned, Paul says that no one can understand God's ways....Im planning on asking God when I get to heaven....until then, He's God and Im not arguing with Him!

Oh what knowledge this young one has. He has been taught to believe what the bible says, and not what we think it should say. God is God, He made us, so why should we try to tell Him who He should love. His word tells me that He gave eternal life to as many as the Father gave Him.

I believe since GOD is all knowing,that GOD already knew that Esau would reject him.

You must learn about Esau's nature.

GOD's Love is not like our, Jesus explains GOD's love as it being far greater then our's.

I have seen many men who were deeply in love with a woman hate a woman when the woman rejects that man.

Not saying that GOD is as weak as a a man to hate in a childish way, I think that because he so passionateconcerning us he hates the fact that we would rather reject and lose ourselves then to receive him and be blessed.

Some people who do not understand may say that they are in their right to choose,not so especially if we were made for him and him alone.

So if you make a child and that child rejects you and heads towards something that will lead to a nasty outcome you would hurt.

You would hate the act and not necessarily the individual.

Also we know that Esau sold his birth right for a bowl of soup something GOD already knew would happen.

#3 When Esau changed his mind and wanted the blessing, there is no indication that Esau tried to restore his own relationship with YHVH--but preferred to murder his brother instead!

Gen 27:41 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing where...his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

#4 Did Esau's nature continue within some of his decedents? Who are Esau’s decedents?

During YeShua's life, Esau’s descendants included King Herod the Great and his descendants. They had the children less than 2 years of age killed, John the Baptist beheaded and several members of their immediate family killed. They threw out G_d’s chosen priests and installed their own puppets.

#5 Also, it seems like Esau's decedents will be judged for what they will yet do as the end of the age progresses.

Oba 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount (high places) of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S. (Yet future.)

If Esau’s descendants ever try to murder you or any of your innocent loved ones, you may understand very clearly why it is recorded that G_d hated Esau.

For Free Help on How to Receive the Blessings that Jacob so Craved, See: www.4step.org

as a christian we are to inherit the earth and eternal life! Esau gave his inheritance away for a bowl of pottage or( soup ) I don't think it's very wise to give your inheritance up for such a meaningless thing as a bowl of soup or anything else, for what will it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:26) now I am aware that not everyone believes in the Bible or God but you asked for an answer, and i'm just trying to answer your question, not to get into a debate with anyone so I'll just leave it at that!

To Phils comment, yeah Jacob tricked his father and tried to convince Esau to trade his birthright for HIS eternal inheritance, doesnt seem a bit selfish? Dont see why God could hate Esau for being stupid but yet love Jacob despite being a selfish deceiver. Now if Jacob only wanted the birthright to serve God I guess that would be different but if it was only to gain something for himself, yeah, selfish..

I always find it amusing how so many 'christians' find a way to ignore exactly what the verse says. God HATED Esau... there are no ways around this. I have heard so many people try to deny this but the verse is very plain. God does HATE. Any other interpretation is quite frankly unbiblical. Most 'christians' don't accept this because their denomination has drilled in their own dogma for so long that they refuse to read the verse for what it actually (and very bluntly) states.

I have ready many comments and it seems that some people just havent grasped it quite yet. Lets put it in simple statements.

God and the choice...

its almost like parents and children.You place a cookie and veggies in front of little bobby. You know whats going to happen. Yet you gave him the CHANCE to do the right thing.God is ALL KNOWING. He knew that Esau would come to hate the Lord. Just like many on earth today. You wonder why you should care if it sounds like destiny? Its because God has hope in his people. He has love for his children. Please understand he wants to give you the chance to love him and accept his love in return. He wants to give all his children the chance to live with him.

Clarence I am sorry for any repetition,but was unable to read all. God is light and in him is no darkness at all, and he will not tempt any person to sin. He did not tempt Essau to sell his birth right as the first born. To satisfiy his stomach or earthly passions he sold his birth right and could not get it back even by strong repentance. I beleive God had a stong affinity to the blessings of the first born because it was pointing to Jesus was the first born resurected into heaven where we are to follow. So I beleive what is meant by hate is that Essau, our example in the new covenant blessing is resurected life of the first born. For those who chose to sell their birth right of the resurected life, for the appetites of the flesh, God has no choice but to hate. And altimately not spending eternity in heaven, so for those who comment that the scriptures are folklore, you may want to dig a little deeper, because few will be that walk into the narrow gate.

When Romans 9:11 says "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." You must keep in mind that the Bible is literature. The language of this passage does not speak to love and hate, rather to the lineage of Israel. Jacob was the one God chose to be Israel, not Esau. If you read the story, God blessed Esau as well, just not with being the ancestry of Jesus. Hope this helps.

Here is a possible answer to the question at hand wich does make sense to me. It is up to you to decide whether it sounds feasible to you. I am not saying this is the offical answer because nobody but God knows that oficially but it does make sense.Here is the link should you choose to read it for yourselfhttp://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2009/05/25/does-god-really-hate-esau/And and here is the copy and pasted version.Does God Really Hate Esau?Many Christians are shocked when they read Romans 9:13: “Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’” Since when does the God of love hate people? This verse, coupled with the rest of Romans 9, has led many to believe that God does not love all people, at least with regard to their eternal salvation. He seems to arbitrarily choose some people for salvation and some people for damnation. But must we interpret this verse in that way?I think the answer is “no.” A more careful reading of this passage indicates that the subject is not individual salvation, but Israel’s national role in redemptive history.Paul is actually quoting from Mal. 1:2-3, and a reading of those verses in the context of Malachi’s book clearly indicates that Malachi is using the word “Jacob” to refer to the nation of Israel and the word “Esau” to refer to the nation of Edom.This makes perfect sense because Romans 9, 10, and 11 are all about national Israel and her role in redemptive history. Romans 9 refers to Israel’s past, Romans 10 refers to her present, and Romans 11 refers to her future.It is a serious exegetical mistake to interpret Romans 9 to be referring to individuals’ salvation. According to Norman Geisler, “the election of the nation was temporal, not eternal; that is, Israel was chosen as a national channel through which the eternal blessing of salvation through Christ would come to all people (cf. Gen. 12:1–3; Rom. 9:4–5). Not every individual in Israel was elected to be saved (9:6).”God works through nations to accomplish his will, just as he works through individuals. Just because Israel was the chosen nation to bring forth the Messiah did not mean that every Israelite would be individually saved. Individual salvation has never been and will never be based on a person’s nationality. Paul is talking about the nation of Israel in Romans 9, not individual salvation.Finally, it is also important to explain that the word used for “hate” in Malachi 1 is a Hebrew idiom which actually means to “love less.” Norman Geisler explains: “This is evident from Genesis 29:30: The phrase ‘loved Rachel more than Leah’ is used as the equivalent of ‘Leah was hated’ (cf. also Matt. 10:37).”God does not hate anyone, but he does bless some nations more than others.

1)Curiously, we don't see God in the Old Testament hating Esau in practice as a person. Esau even speaks to Jacob as if he was well off, blessed. In general, the descriptions of Esua's life seem pretty good. This -to begin with- should make us think about how the word love & hate are used in Romans ch.9 and Mal.1.2) I believe that they are used to denote favour, that is love means to favour, and hate means to not favour the same. E.g. discern this passage:Gen 29:30-31 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.-So, in comparison we realize that the hated party here is the lesser loved.3) In practice, this lesser favour towards Esau was, that **the people that came from him**(the Edomites) would not be favoured by God, but even opposed to make the point that the people that came from Jacob are the one's favoured by God. Notice, that the lack of favour (hate) towards Esau did not affect Esau himself directly, but his offspring. I found no other negative affect towards Esau himself.4) God is portrayed all over the Bible as being just. This we should not forget. But doesn’t this mean that He had a just reason to favour Esau less and Jacob more (even way more)?? We should not jump to hasty conclusions especially about the God of the Bible Who over and over is described to be the personification of justice. If we accept that God sees the future, as if we exist there as well (won’t get into that…), He of course does things considering factors we cannot be aware of. This being the case Paul is saying: God is just, He knows what He is doing, and we are not in position to judge Him properly.-And let’s not forget that Paul himself did not know everything about God; he says so himself: 1Co 13:9,12 / I say this because maybe even Paul’s words about Esau and Jacob may be just one side of the story and there could be another side he was not aware of, or not to the full extent.5) Even when God favours a group of people less then another group of people, He will do it in wisdom and with care/control. We must be carefull and ask to learn more about Him and His ways.

As I read all of Romans 9, it is clear to me that God does according to the counsel of His own will. When Paul states that there is no injustice in God, I believe this to be a rhetorical statement. God is just, indeed. But He is the one who defines justice, He defines good and He defines evil. He does what He wills and there is no turning in Him. I am extremely humbled by these passages. If God chooses to hate, to love, to bless, to curse, in order to make His power known... so be it. I am his obedient slave. If God sees fit to include me among His elect, it is by grace I am saved. If God chooses not to include me among His elect then God's justice will have been served. The incredible struggle between the Sovereignty of God and the free will of man will never be understood until He brings all things to understanding. While I have assurance of salvation there can be no certainty of it. But until that day, I will walk in obedience to His word and strive to do His will all the days of my life. I believe I echo the statements of 13 year old Jesse above.

I found a good biblical answer for the question if God loves everybody.

Here it is.

Question: "Does God love everyone or just Christians?"

Answer: There is a sense in which God loves everyone in the whole world (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; Romans 5:8). This love in not conditional—it is based only on the fact that God is a God of love (1 John 4:8, 16). God’s love for all of mankind results in the fact that God shows His mercy by not immediately punishing people for their sins (Romans 3:23; 6:23). God’s love for the world is manifested in the fact that He gives people the opportunity to repent (2 Peter 3:9). However, God’s love for the world does not mean He will ignore sin. God is also a God of justice (2 Thessalonians 1:6). Sin cannot go unpunished forever (Romans 3:25-26).

The most loving act of eternity is described in Romans 5:8, “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Anyone who ignores God’s love, who rejects Christ as Savior, who denies the Savior who bought him (2 Peter 2:1) will be subject to God’s wrath for eternity (Romans 1:18), not His love (Romans 6:23). God loves everyone unconditionally in that He shows mercy to everyone by not destroying them immediately because of sin. At the same time, God only has “covenant love” for those who place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:36). Only those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will experience God’s love for eternity.

Does God love everyone? Yes. Does God love Christians more than He loves non-Christians? No. Does God love Christians to a different extent than He loves non-Christians? Yes. God loves everyone equally in that He is merciful to all. God only loves Christians in that only Christians have His eternal grace and mercy and the promise of His forever love in heaven. The unconditional love God has for everyone should bring us to faith in Him, receiving in thankfulness the great conditional love He grants all those who receive Jesus Christ as Savior.

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson.

As a Christian whose sons have rejected Christianity and who have questioned the validity of the Bible, whenever I run across a difficult passage such as this, I become obsessed with finding an answer. In my search, I ran across a sermon by Charles H. Spurgeon that really answered this better than any of the answers given here. It's rather lengthy, but must be read in its entirety in order to fully understand. If you read just part of it, you will go away confused and discouraged, so read the whole thing. www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0239.htm

In the context of this holy Word one must compare scripture to scripture before jumping to conclusions.

First off, God is a God of love not Hate. He wants ALL sinnners to come to Him, so He can forgive them and mold and shape them into His likeness.However, we all have free will, so please invite and let Jesus Our Lord and Savior, to come into your heart and soul before it is too late.

Now on to the topic at hand of God (Supposedly)hating Eassu.From alot of responses I have read on here so far Your definitions of love and hate aren't quite correct.The language of the times in the Old Testament was Hebrew.

So Knowing that you must check on what the Hebrew meaning is especially in a difficult English translation such as this.So, The Hebrew definition for hate (שנא - sane) is: to 'turn away from another'. It is the opposite of grace (חן - chane) which is: 'beauty' implying to look upon or to show favor. The problem comes in when use the English definition of these words to understand the Word of God. That is unfortunately the English translation and why we must study, especially when it comes to difficult passages such as this.

So a better translation would be God "turned away from" Essau because He knew that Essau would sell His BirthRight for a meal. The BirthRight is very very important to the Hebrew for God chose to come through the Jewish people, and to sell your birthRight was like saying I don't believe in God and breaks the perfect lineage.

And the lineage that Jesus Christ was and did come through was unbroken and perfect in God's eyes.So God "turned away from" Essau, knowing what he was going to do.

God does Not hate. He is a Holy, Righteous and Loving God, who wants to have a daily personal relationship with you because He loves you so much He came and died for your personal sins....Imagine that?? A Perfect Holy God so loving, that He sent His Only begotten Son here Jesus Christ to die in your place for the sins you committed. Sure sounds like a perfect Loving God to me. Come to Him and confess your sins, and He is Faithful and Just to forgive you.

So use your free will gift from God wisely and Don't keep "turning away from"....Him.

This is not complicated. God knows the nature of every human being before they are born. It is not fundamentally about blood lines (although that is significant) it is about a mentality, ideology, religious philosophy, and cultural/tribal grudges. Esau and his descendants (the majority) carry the spirit of their patriarch - as do the descendants of Jacob...of course Jacob was a conniving cheat, but hey, nobody's perfect.

maybe it's as simple as God was not pleased with Esau's attitude. God knows the inclination of our hearts even before we are aware of them in certain areas, our words and actions reveal them over the course of time. Esau's giving of the birthright was but a reflection of what was already true about him deep inside. (Perhaps) some of the things like 'God changing His mind or God Repenting' are only showing a lack of understanding on the writers part, not God's. It shows how 'spiritually evolved' those in Christ can come to Understand the Nature of God. Additionally, we do not know exactly how the Holy Spirit of God 'operated' at that time as opposed to after the Crucifixion.. some of the replies to this post though, so antagonistic, they too, reveal the nature of their hearts, they could well be just like Esau. Remember Cain killed Abel, yet God said he'd be protected. There seems to be a 'separation' or a parting of the ways evolving from the beginning going from Cain to Esau, a 'distinguishing' between two kinds of humanity. Those who are willing to be reached and those not, who desire in their hearts to get what they want, when they want it, and how they are going to get it. This 'age of entitlement' speaks for itself. Just look around. It's instant gratification more than ever. Not that that has not always been true, it just that in today's age of growing technology of faster faster faster man now how the opportunity to express what has always been true anyway...and in doing so, is actually in some ways condemning himself and proing himself to be what he is. No one is different from anyone else in that aspect, it's a matter of those who are willing to pay the price in order to no longer be of that nature. Those who don't want to pay the price will simply make excuses for themselves. It's called self-justification and self-righteousness which obviously is a lie. What is righteous to one is not righteous or moral to another necessarily. Man loves to believe his own comforting lies and will cling tot hem like a security blanket rather than let go of all preconceived notions and ideologies (ideas and theories and philosophies which are mere ways of avoiding the truth) and face Reality. It might also be as simple as the Esau, in his heart, did not believe God and did not have faith by his own self will. It would in that case represent man's plight..it's a symbol and a sign for those in the future. At the time of the writing, inspired by the Spirit, they wouldn't have known that.

Is amazing how Christians pick and choose to believe only the things that suit them. God said he loved Jacob and hated Esau stop trying to justify it and change it God is about the truth either you like it or not. The bible is contradicting why would a loving God who supposedly loves all of his children good or bad now is saying that he Hates one of his own creations? The bible says God is fair and Just yet that does not sound very fair. We have to ask ourselves is the bible really the true word of God? I don't believe it is, would a perfect God write such an imperfect book? I don't believe the God of the bible is the true God, the bible has been changed, added, mistranslated so to call it the true word of God is insane, anyone with half a brain knows there is something wrong with the writings in the bible. God does not have a religion neither did Jesus therefore all religions have been created by men and all religions are lies invented by men, to create fear and to subjugate people to their own believes. Open your eyes people...

Hi Steve,That is an excellent question.God "loved" Jacob as the father of his chosen people, the Israelites. He didn't love his deceptive actions. In fact he allowed Jacob to be deceived by Laban to teach him the pain of this.God "hated" Esau as the father of his chosen people. So the Israelites were God's chosen people rather than Edomites.Malachi 1 speaks of this.All this pointed to Christ. Jesus was in the lineage of Jacob, not Esau. (And awesomely he was in the line of Leah, not Racheal).

Hebrews 12:16-17 warns us to not be with our souls and eternal inheritance how Esau was with his life and earthy inheritance. He was acting godless when he impulsively traded something precious for a simple bowl of soup.How much more should we not trade our precious eternity for the temporal pleasures of this world. What does it profit us to gain the whole world but lose our souls?

Just as Esau could not make Isaac change his mind about the inheritance, we cannot make God change his mind if we choose the world over Christ and then hope for him to pardon us when we meet him.

As per God hating Esau personally, I don't think the context of the whole Bible supports that. Even he was at peace in Genesis. When Jacob came in fear to meet him, Esau had plenty and didn't need all his gifts, and he had also forgiven Jacob.