Stink: Dolphins should have known there’s a line not to be crossed

Many have said Martin has broken “the code” and will never be welcomed back in the locker room. What about “the code” that says we love one another? We play hard for one another? We set aside our differences and bond together as one?

What about that fraternity, that code?

It says a lot that Mark Schlereth - at the time, a journeyman scrap-heap signee, and self-proclaimed least confrontational person you'll ever meet - was able to stand up for a young Broncos teammate in 1995. And it says very little for the 2013 Dolphins and their apparent leadership vacuum.

Doug is IAOFM’s resident newsman and spelling czar. Follow him on Twitter @IAOFM

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Dat's funny.

Posted by Ben Duke on 2014-02-18 21:07:50

Braso, if what you're looking for is the words "agree to disagree," you'll recall that we both said those a while back, but then you kept writing. I really don't understand your argument technique. Instead of responding to my points, you just keep repeating your position and saying I don't get it. I absolutely get it. You believe that Martin should have gone to Philbin, and that Martin was running away from his problems. I pointed out the flaws in those positions, but rather than explaining how those aren't flaws, you just keep restating the original position. But let me say it again. Going to Philbin does not make sense when there is a punishment in place for "Judases." Players would be fined for something as minor as pointing out what another player did wrong. But Martin was supposed to perform the ultimate Judas act. You've read the report, so you know the investigators understood why Martin knew this was futile. Second, he didn't run from his problems. He solved his problems. If getting the outcome Martin got is running from your problems, I think most people would love to run from their problems. So now I'll say it again, agree to disagree. If you keep writing, don't blame me.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-17 08:20:45

He could have gone to philbin and let him know the situation. That is 1 of several alternatives to running away. I am done with convo Alden if you can't read and know my position at this point then There is nothing I can say to help you.

I respect your opinion, I am not telling you that you are wrong. At no point did I try to tell you or anyone else they were wrong. Now have some respect for an opposing opinion and agree to disagree.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 22:36:25

1. Even if that's what happened, you proposed no reasonable alternative that made sense with the known facts.2. Martin obtained a thorough NFL investigation that vindicated him, will result in severe punishment for the wrongdoers, and almost certainly will result in him getting a fresh start with a new team. You call that running from his problems; I call that solving them.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 22:27:27

Ok let's make it simple.

I personally do no and will never support running from your problems. Now we can agree to disagree .

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 21:55:46

I'm just not following you. You keep talking about what Martin SHOULD have done, but without doing those things he obtained an NFL investigation that vindicated him and will result in severe punishment against his tormentors. What else could he have gained by doing what you wanted? Second, this whole thing started with you saying Martin was partially to blame. But your only support for that assertion is your belief that he did not follow the steps a lawyer would want him to follow in building a Title VII case. But that doesn't mean he's at fault, particularly since there's no evidence that he wanted to file a Title VII case. Many would probably credit him for NOT being litigious.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 21:25:13

1. Yes it does, look up the definition

2. So it doesnt become he said she said and the amount of evidence is strong enough to suspect incognito types. Or at a minimum start a change in work place environment.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 19:01:09

No, I'm not clear at all. First, does hostile work environment apply outside of the sexual harassment context? Second, building the documentation you're talking about is only important if you're going to sue your employer. It's only the "right" thing to do if that's your intent. All indications from Martin are that he simply wants to return to the league, not that he wants to sue the Dolphins. Why should he do the things you demand if he doesn't want to sue?

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 18:31:41

Last attempt to explain this to you. The punch to the face was in my youth, past 16-18 years old you get to go to jail. As an adult violence is not an option I have stated over and over.

In a hostile work place environment you must build documentation of misconduct and continue to appeal as far up the ladder as possible. Any attorney on the planet would tell you this is absolutely important. According to the report neither he nor the agent let the head coach know there has an issue. Instead he ran and refused to address the situation in any capacity.

I am clear on your position, are you clear on mine, yes or no?

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 18:23:20

I have too. For me, I just can't imagine in a situation in which there is a fine system for "Judases," going over Incognito's head was a reasonable solution. It's telling that Incognito's first reaction was "burn the fine book." Also, there is not a one size fits all solution. Punching someone worked for you; other people can't conceive of ever hitting someone else. I suspect that Martin is one of those people. That's all for me, too.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 18:08:18

No one is talking about rape. Please stay within the context of the conversation, lets not apply or compare bullying to rape. That is beyond slippery slope.

If you read all if my comments you will see my point of building documentation to the highest authority. I offered my own experience as a child because Alden called me out.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 15:34:20

Alden I have read the report in its entirety. If you haven't then you might want to. Either way I have layed out my opinions based on the report, I have nothing further to add at this time.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 15:30:26

Depends on the situation. But in one where power is involved, such as bullying, or the extreme case, rape, no you don't face it head on because the whole situation is about removing power from the victim. I doubt that Martin could have reasonably requested Incognito to stop. This is why in civilized societies we have institutions and authorities to police us. Comes of as PC? Ok, but the alternative is "frontier justice" where people take the law or confrontation into their own hands....that often does not end well....

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2014-02-16 15:29:46

This is from PFT's story about Turner today. This is pretty much how I see it:Turner apparently played the Sgt. Schulz card because the concept of the “Judas” fine helps explain Jonathan Martin’s position that he couldn’t have reported the abuse he believed he was suffering to Turner or others in the organization. “Martin believed that going to his coaches or other authority figures meant risking ostracism or even retaliation from his fellow linemen,” the report observes.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 15:07:23

I can agree with that it was reasoble and understandable and I even stated as much in an earlier post. But I also believe that he didn't handle it in the best manner either.

That is my opinion, I am not stating it as fact, if I would have had the opportunity to advise him or had been his agent I would have recommended something else.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 14:12:59

Given what I know of the situation, I think the way Martin handled it is perfectly reasonable and understandable.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 14:06:57

Man you like to pick and chose dont you...

First you never answered the question whether or not Martin chose the best avenue to handle the situation.

Second I am not blaming him for being victimized, I am criticizing how he handled it.

Third I grew up In a different time that was void of PC righteousness. And offered up the story of my own experience after you questioned how I would have dealt with it, when as a kid I did deal with it for 3 years.

I have personal context to offer from my youth take or leave it.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 13:30:32

Good for you Braso. If you want to sit at your keyboard and type that you would have stood up to Richie Incognito, John Jerry, Mike Pouncey, and Jim Turner, that's your prerogative. After reading that report, I am unwilling to pass judgment on Martin for responding the way he did. You seem to have learned the lesson that violence works. I'm not going to judge Martin for not believing that this is the answer.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 13:19:09

So following standard business protocol is the wrong thing to do?

And even aside from that I was ruthlessly "bullied" as a kid. Constantly coming home with bruises black eyes broken glasses. Through the help of my grandfather I figure that in specific situations like bullying you are victim until you stop being a victim.

I came to the conclusion that we as humans are nothing more then animals, so I decided to be an animal and fought back when that bastard came after me again. Did I get my ass beat again yup, but I broke that kids nose and and was suspended for a week. When I came back from suspension it never happened again and I had all if a sudden made friends I never knew I had.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 12:48:40

I'm simply agreeing with the other commenters here that you're wrong to blame the victim and that the "solutions" you offer are completely unrealistic and would only have exacerbated the situation.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 12:32:16

Ok Alden. What is your solution? How should have Martin handled it? Are you saying Martin handled the situation exactly the way he should have?

Instead of acting as the grammar police and baiting other commenters And lol ing comments why dont you step out and offer something.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 12:14:50

You're right. It didn't give them a competitive advantage.

But, it did cause actual harm to actual people which matters more to me than whether it changes the outcome of a game.

Posted by DragonPie on 2014-02-16 10:38:24

LOL. Yeah, because, unlike schoolyard bullies, Richie Incognito would have reacted with wisdom and maturity after being told on.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-16 09:22:54

Interested to know who the dolphins rep on the Player's Union was. Because whomever it was has failed here.

Posted by Mike Birtwistle on 2014-02-16 04:05:25

I can only look at the evidence out there. The wells report states philbin didn't know, maybe the nflpa's report will say something different. then we can do this all over again....

Totally agree with you on the incompetent thing. If nothing else he didn't create the right environment and culture for "his" team. Lack of institution control From the top all the way down.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 01:25:48

I must respectfully agree to disagree on this. You face confrontation head on. Violence is never the answer, but neither is running.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-16 01:18:57

I'm sure that Daniel Snyder is worried about your concerns.. All the while I sleep fine every night..

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 23:34:42

I'll never go back to dos/windows based computers.. to many issues.. never have to worry about getting hacked, viruses, anti-virus software updates and the graphic on my iMac and auto back up to my airport every hour. I never worry about anything anymore..

IF all I have to worry about is syntax/spelling or grammar on a football site, my life is pretty easy..

I'm not worried about it but have to remind the syntax/spelling or grammar police everyone once in a while..

I love my iPhone except for my BIG fingers on a small keyboard.. which would not change if I did make the move to android..

But thanks for your concern..

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 23:33:14

I'm sure as heck comfortable with the fact that he doesn't exist!

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2014-02-15 23:29:38

Sure, there's plenty of blame to go around. But none of it reaches Martin. I've yet to see a shred of evidence that even implies that he did something to deserve this. And not standing up for himself doesn't justify anything. We all have certain rights, to which we're entitled whether we stand up for ourselves or not. Just as an example, if someone mugs me and I don't try to stop him forcibly, is he no longer guilty of a crime? The "he didn't stand up for himself" argument doesn't work, because by the time he needed to stand up for himself the bullying had already begun; he didn't do anything to start it.

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2014-02-15 23:28:54

Yeah, Philbin said he didn't know, but are we really willing to take that at face value? Or maybe, just maybe, he's following the time honored tradition of an NFL head coach covering himself and letting the assistant coach take the fall?

And if he really, honestly didn't know a thing, given how systematic and pervasive this crap was, then he's incompetent enough that Martin probably didn't have any faith that Philbin could do anything anyway. After all, shouldn't a decent head coach establish a culture that doesn't tolerate this sort of behavior to begin with?

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2014-02-15 23:23:16

You've been bitching about your iPad for years now. Get a damn android already! I never have problems posting from mine.

Or, failing that, stop bitching about your iPad already.

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2014-02-15 23:18:33

Yeah, but they didn't cheat other teams out of Super Bowl victories. What NE did was way, way worse.

Posted by John on 2014-02-15 23:16:32

#1 these are not kids on a playground. #2 philbin should be able to set the culture and rules of his team and lockeroom. If he can't fix issues like this then he has no business leading a team.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 21:40:41

But Philbin is the one who hired that dickhead to be his OL coach. And let's assume Martin did tell Philbin, and Philbin told Incognito to knock it off. What do you think would have happened to Martin then? Every kid knows that the last thing you want to do when you're being bullied is to tell the teacher.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 21:30:17

What?

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 21:06:27

I think I did, but there is plenty of blame to go around outside of incognito.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 19:41:54

Not a big fan of the stand up for yourself thing. That puts the onus on the victim... How about just say Incognito was wrong, plain and simple?

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2014-02-15 19:33:17

Let me also add that because of the elitist corp on this forum, they are smart enough to connect the dots, IF they so chose todo so.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 18:40:01

And yet, it really all means nothing, as you're on record as saying you would have no problem with an expansion team calling itself The Yellowskins. Money and power can't buy a soul.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 18:38:13

iPad/disqus freeze.. Products that sometimes change the syntax and spelling.

Since 95% of said posts are done in either waiting rooms, airports or away from home I care even less. Simply not worth running spell check, as time is finite.

As I said many times before read my stuff or not, frankly Charlotte I do not give a fuck.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 18:37:25

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to krill you.

Last spot in corporate ville I had covered southern California LaX with some 11 managers under me, another 185 employees under them and some quarter of a billion + of assets under my direct control.

Then I walked away to raise my stepson and forthcoming daughter. After realizing that there was more to life (kids and wife) than money and power.

Yes CEP. Like it or not.

As I said when I decided to Internet my thoughts I chucked the grammar and spelling crap as most of it would be over the average poster.

Then I moved even farther away when I decided to do most of my posting via at first Black berry and now apple

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 18:33:54

Boxing ring maybe. Ahahahahah

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 18:22:50

I think most atheists/agnostics/skeptics will tell you that they are comfortable with their "relationship with God", as Gibbs put it. It just shows how well spoken he was.

Posted by iamafreeman on 2014-02-15 18:10:01

Y'all need to get a room

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 17:51:58

Didn't forget. Philbin who is the the Boss of the team said he didn't know. If THE boss doesn't know then how can it be fixed. His agent should have instructed him to or his Stanford education should have taught him to create a paper trail.

It's very similar to sexual harassment in the work place. Once you inform the boss or hr you feel uncomfortable it can no longer happen. Billion dollar companies have hr departments.

Martin ran, his agent is a tool bag for letting this happen.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 17:49:51

But don't forget, his position coach was in on the bullying. And how well do you think it would have gone over in that environment if he had complained to the coaches?

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 17:25:54

LOL. "Corporate executive position."

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 17:23:03

You have to standup for yourself. Whether it's a straight up confrontation or taking it to the coach or gm. He chose to run away with out giving the team an opportunity to fix it. Can he justify leaving yea but that doesn't mean it was his best avenue.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 17:09:47

It's not just sports. I've met programmers who embed scripture into their code comments. I've met truck drivers who proselytize as they drop your packages off. It's peculiar to religion, not to sports.

Gibbs's comments are in fact true: you're defined by your faith, family, and job. The order of importance is up to you -- an atheist could put faith last while a Gordon Gekko might put the job first. But those three facets will determine how you live your life.

Posted by DCJ1 on 2014-02-15 17:09:44

Loss of institutional control. Black eye for nfl.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 17:04:58

Ah now you have become the grammar police. Ask me if I give a crap.

Once I retired from my corporate executive position I stopped worrying about pissant grammar and spelling on the internet.

Hey I have an idea. Don't read my posts, if they offend your grammatical sensibilities.. Ahahahahahaha

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 17:02:14

Makes me proud that Stink is one of the very few NFL players Alaska has ever produced.

Posted by Alaskan on 2014-02-15 16:35:17

One out of three of those is actually a sentence.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 16:35:13

I haven't taken the time to read the whole report and probably won't get a chance for another day or two. In what ways do you believe Martin was to blame?

Posted by Yahmule on 2014-02-15 16:16:06

Unfortunately there are only so many Mannnings, Farves, Elways , Montana's , Gradishers types in the NFL. To go around at anyone given time.

There are however more thugs in the game and unless you have a very strong FO, coaching staff or an outstanding J J watt type leader on them to steer nitwit thugs clear of being stupid.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-02-15 15:41:11

A surprising, but certainly not unwelcome column from Stink. While I will never wonder at the American way of shoehorning God into any and every sports topic this was nonetheless good and honest insight from a good and and honest man.

Posted by Matt Killner on 2014-02-15 15:19:34

Well, I don't know about that. The Patriots cheated, and only had to get rid of one draft pick. What Miami did didn't hurt the integrity of the game.

Posted by John on 2014-02-15 15:14:09

Brief follow-up to the article outlining the Kansas gay discrimination law. Sounds like there was a lot of blowback from businesses and people, and the law is shelved for now in the KS legislature with the governor saying he wouldn't sign it in its current form.

After reading the full report I now have the following opinion if anyone cares. The term epic fail has never been so true then to the entire dolphins team. From the top down everyone including Martin is to blame for this situation. Everyone stinks like crap, some more then others like pouncey and incognito.

The lack of a respectable leader on this team or any other team will have situations like this. The whole thing is screwed and the dolphins as a franchise should be fined money and draft picks.

Posted by BRASO on 2014-02-15 13:53:33

Outstanding column.

Posted by AldenBrown on 2014-02-15 12:37:10

His article included references to religion. Invalid! #sticktofootball - Lonestar