Think that CCW permit holder is a safe individual? Maybe not:

October 2, 2006 – Charles Carl Roberts kills six and injures five in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania with guns purchased from local gun stores in
Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania. - Motive is taken from his suicide note, where he claims he is still angry at god for the death of a premature infant
daughter nine years prior. There are no gun stores in Nickel Mines, PA, so i am unable to reliably verify the origin of the weapons, or if they were
legally obtained. Shooter was on undisclosed antidepressants, for an undisclosed mental illness. Not a CCW holder.

March 25, 2006 – Kyle Huff kills six and wounds two at a rave afterparty in Seattle, Washington with guns purchased at sporting goods stores in
Kalispell, Montana. - Motive unknown. No documented history of mental illness or medication. Shooter had previously been charged with a felony for
destroying a public arts project. he was able to avoid the felony charge, and keep his guns, by pleading guilty to a reduced misdemeanor mischief
charge. Weapons were legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

January 30, 2006 – Jennifer Sanmarco kills eight in Goleta, California with a gun purchased from a pawn shop in Grants and Gallup, New Mexico. -
Motive appears to have been ethnic bigotry, in conjunction with severe mental illness. Shooter had a history of mental illness, but was never
adjudicated as mentally defective. Weapon was legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

March 12, 2005 – Terry Michael Ratzmann kills six and injures one in Brookfield, Wisconsin with a gun purchased from a gun dealer in Waukesha,
Wisconsin. - Motive unknown, though the shooter was facing impending loss of employment, and was also said to have been infuriated by a sermon
delivered by the leader of his church two weeks prior. No documented history of mental illness or medication. However, his autopsy revealed that he
had been suffering from Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which could account for his sudden odd behavior. Unable to corroborate origin of firearm. Unable to
reliably confirm that the weapon was legally obtained. Not a CCW holder

July 8, 2003 – Douglas Williams kills seven and injures eight in Meridian, Mississippi with guns purchased from a private dealer. - Motive is
believed to be related to perceived mistreatment at the workplace, and revenge on coworkers who had reported him to management. No documented history
of mental illness or medication. Unable to reliably verify origin of weapons, or that the weapons were legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

February 5, 2001 – William D. Baker kills five and injures four in Melrose Park, Illinois with guns that were purchased from Pepper Sports in Glen
Ellyn, Illinois. - Motive appears to be revenge. No documented history of mental illness or medication. Shooter was a convicted felon, but was able to
purchase firearms with a FOID card that had been renewed before his first felony conviction. Law enforcement failed to confiscate weapons purchased
before his first conviction. Weapons were not legally owned. Not a CCW holder

December 26, 2000 – Michael McDermott kills seven in Wakefield, Massachusetts with guns purchased from gun stores in Massachusetts. - Motive
unknown. Shooter had a long history of mental illness, and was on Paxil, Prozac & Desyrel (Trazodone). Weapons were not legally obtained, as the
shooter's purchaser's permit was expired. Unable to reliably verify origin of weapons. Not a CCW holder. (it's worth noting that when he was
apprehended by police, he believed he had just killed Hitler and six Nazis, telling police that he had been born with no soul, and that he'd been
offered one in exchange for killing Nazis.)

I would like to note at this time, that it is becoming progressively harder to find information on the shooters, past this point. it should also be
noted that the further back we go, the more difference we encounter between current laws, and laws of the time.

December 30, 1999 – Silvio Leyva kills five and injures three in Tampa, Florida with guns purchased from Big E's in Tampa, Florida. - Motive
Unknown. When the shooter was arrested, he was carrying two firearms. One was a 9mm pistol he bought from the Floriland Mall flea market on Jan. 2,
said police Chief Bennie Holder. The other, a .38-caliber revolver, was purchased from Nationwide Sports by an unknown person, he said. This directly
contradicts the assertion by Mother Jones, that the guns were purchased at "big E's in Tampa". Notice one of the guns wasn't even his. Unable to
find any data on mental health history, or medication. Unable to find any information regarding CCW status. it is assumed the shooter did not have a
CCW.

November 2, 1999 – Bryan Uyesugi kills seven in Honolulu, Hawaii with a gun he legally purchased ten years earlier. - Motive appears to be in
relation to perceived imminent termination of eployment. Shooter had a history of mental illness, and light criminal activity, including an arrest for
third degree criminal property damage, after damaging an elevator door by kicking it repeatedly. It is unknown if the shooter was on any medications.
Unable to reliably verify origin, or legality of weapon. unable to verify CCW status. it is assumed the shooter was not a valid CCW holder.

September 15, 1999 – Larry Gene Ashbrook kills eight and injures seven in Fort Worth, Texas with guns purchased from federally licensed firearms
dealers seven years earlier. - Motive unknown. Shooter had an undisclosed mental illness, and had been prescribed Prozac. Unable to reliably confirm
origin or legality of weapons. Unable to confirm CCW status, it is assumed the shooter was not a valid CCW holder.

July 29, 1999 – Mark O. Barton kills nine and injures thirteen in Atlanta, Georgia with guns purchased from a gun store in Warner Robins, Georgia. -
Motive Unknown, though it is suspected that it was related to heavy losses he had recently sustained from day trading. Shooter had previously had a
drug habit. Shooter had previously been arrested, and served time in jail for sabotaging company data, depending on the charge, this may have made him
ineligible to purchase firearms. Shooter was suffering from an undisclosed mental illness, and was on Prozac. Unable to reliably verify origin or
legality of weapons. Unable to verify CCW status, it is assumed the shooter was not a valid CCW holder. (it's worth noting that on july 27th, he
murdered his wife, and on the 28th, he murdered his kids...all with a hammer..how 'bout that?)

March 6, 1998 – Matthew Beck kills five in Newington, Connecticut with a 9mm pistol that he had a permit for. - His motive is listed as him being a
"disgruntled employee". Shooter was mentally ill, and was on Luvox. Unable to reliably verify origin or legality of weapon. Unable to verify CCW
status, it is assumed that the shooter was not a valid CCW holder. (It's worth noting that Eric Harris, of Columbine school shooting infamy, was
also on Luvox.)

December 18, 1997 – Arturo Reyes Torres kills five and injures two in Orange, California with guns purchased from B&E Gun Sales in Orange County,
California. - Motive appears to be revenge for termination of employment, and alleged ethnic bigotry. No documented history of mental illness or
medication. Weapon was legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

February 9, 1996 – Clifton McCree kills six and injures one in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. - Motive is listed as being revenge "to punish some of the
cowardly, racist devils'' responsible for firing him two years prior, after failing a drug test. No documented history of mental illness or
medication. Unable to reliably verify origin or legality of weapons. Not a CCW holder.

April 3, 1995 – James Daniel Simpson kills six in Corpus Christi, Texas. - Motive unknown, suspected to be depression related. The firearms were
purchased legally, however, police would not release any information to the public. Simpson had no criminal record or mental illness history that
would have prevented him from buying firearms. unable to verify origin of weapons. Unable to verify CCW status, it is assumed the shooter did not hold
a CCW.

June 20, 1994 – Dean Allen Melburg kills six and injures twenty-three in Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington. (shooter's name is mis-spelled) I'm
not going to even speculate as to the motive. as can be seen here in the official Air
Force report on the incident, the shooter was very sick. apparently, the gun was legal, no CCW.

December 7, 1993 – Colin Ferguson kills six and injures nineteen in Long Island, New York with a gun purchased at Turner's Outdoorsmen in
California. - Motive is listed as "black rage". Shooter had no documented history of mental illness or medication, though it should be noted that he
was VERY mentally ill, and should have been caught earlier. Shooter was paranoid, delusional, and obsessed with racism. Shooter had constant fantasies
that white people, and other minorities were plotting against him. Weapon appears to have been legally obtained. Not a CCW holder. (It's interesting
to note that the wife of Dennis McCarthy, who was killed in the attack, used her husband's death as part of her campaign for election into the U.S.
Congress. she's well known for her uninformed anti-gun stance, her most memorable quote having to do with her thinking a barrel shroud is "the
shoulder thing that goes up". one would think that if someone wants to ban something, they should at least know what it is.)

August 6, 1993 – Kenneth Junior French kills four and injures eight in Fayetteville, North Carolina. - Motive appears to have been hatred of
homosexuals. Shooter was active duty army, rank of Sergeant(E-5) at the time he carried out the shooting. Being that he was active duty military, it
can be reasonably assumed that it would not have been difficult for him to purchase firearms, however, i cannot reliably verify the origin or legality
of the weapons used. No documented history of mental illness or medication. Not a CCW holder.

July 1, 1993 – Gian Luigi Ferri kills nine and injures six in San Francisco, California with guns purchased at Super Pawn and Pacific Tactical
Weapons in Las Vegas. - Motive unknown. No documented history of mental illness or medication, however the suicide note he left would suggest he was,
in fact quite mentally ill. Weapons were legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

October 15, 1992 – John T. Miller kills five in Watkins Glen, New York with a gun purchased from Mumford Sports in Lichfield, Ohio. - Motive appears
to be revenge. No documented history of mental illness or medication. In 1982, the shooter was convicted of felonious assault for aiming a revolver at
two police officers responding to a domestic violence report at his girlfriend's apartment. This would have made him legally unable to own firearms.
Law enforcement failed to confiscate his weapons. Not a CCW holder.

May 1, 1992 – Eric Houston kills four and injures ten in Olivehurst, California with guns purchased from a local gun retailer. - Motive is listed as
revenge. No documented history of mental illness or medication. Unable to verify origin or legality of weapons. unable to verify CCW status, it is
assumed the shooter did not hold a CCW.

November 14, 1991 – Thomas McIlvane kills five and injures five in Royal Oak, Michigan with a gun purchased from a local gun retailer. - Motive was
revenge. No documented history of mental illness, or medication..unless you can count his reason for being discharged from the marines (purposely ran
over a car with a tank), or his history of violence and threats, as a history of mental illness. Shooter was known to the police for having made
numerous threats, and having been arrested a number of times for fights. unable to verify origin or legality of weapons, though available information
would suggest they were legally purchased. Not a CCW holder.

November 1, 1991 – Gang Lu kills six and injures one in Iowa City, Iowa with a gun purchased from Fin & Feather in Iowa City, Iowa. - Motive appears
to be revenge, mixed with a bit of crazy. Shooter had a history of violent outbursts, but no documented history of mental illness or medication.
Weapons were legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

October 16, 1991 – George Hennard kills twenty-four and injures twenty in Killen, Texas with guns purchased from Mike's Gun Shop in Henderson,
Nevada. - Motive appears to be in relation to loss of employment, and an extreme hatred of women. No documented history of mental illness or
medication. Shooter had been previously arrested for possession of marijuana, i am not familiar enough with the law at that time to be sure of whether
or not this would have been enough to disqualify him for firearm purchase/ownership. Not a CCW holder.

September 14, 1989 – Joseph Westbecker kills nine and injures twelve in Louisville, Kentucky with guns purchased from Tilford's Gun Sales in
Louisville, Kentucky. - (shooter's name is mis-spelled) Motive appears to have been revenge. shooter had a documented history of mental illness
including Suicidal Ideation(a side effect of Prozac), and was on Prozac for manic depression. Weapons appear to have been legally obtained. Not a CCW
holder.

January 17, 1989 – Patrick Purdy kills six and injures thirty in Stockton, California with guns purchased from Sandy Trading Post in Sandy, Oregon
on August 3, 1988, and Hunter Loan and Jewelry Co. in Stockton, California on December 28, 1988. - Motive unknown. Shooter had a long criminal record,
that should have prohibited him from purchasing firearms, however, a technicality made it possible - Purdy was able to purchase the weapons because
the judicial system had not convicted him of any crime that prevented him from purchasing firearms. Shooter was found during one of his
incarcerations, to be mildly mentally retarded. Weapons appear to have been legally purchased. Not a CCW holder.

February 16, 1988 – Richard Farley kills seven and injures four in Sunnyvale, California with guns purchased from different sporting goods and gun
stores in Northern California. - Motive Unknown. Shooter had previously been stalking a coworker. Shooter had a restraining order against him. Shooter
was ordered to attend psychological counseling sessions, by his employer. Weapons were legally obtained, however I'm not sure how the restraining
order didn't stop this. Not a CCW holder. (it's interesting to note that the judge that made the restraining order permanent noted that "pieces of
paper do not stop bullets"....is it possible that she understands how the world works better than about 99% of the anti-gun folks?)

April 23, 1987 – William Cruse kills six and injures fourteen in Palm Bay, Florida with guns purchased from a gun store in Norwood, Ohio and The
Oaks Trading Post in Melbourne, Florida. - Motive unknown. No documented history of mental illness or medication. Unable to verify origin or legality
of weapons. Not a CCW holder.

August 20, 1986 – Patrick Sherrill kills fifteen and injures six in Edmond, Oklahoma with guns issued by the Oklahoma National Guard. - Motive
appears to be revenge. No documented history of mental illness or medication. Weapons were legally obtained, though it should be noted that he did not
own them, and they were not issued to him by the National guard, as the list entry asserts. Shooter was a member of the OANG marksmanship team, and
checked out the two pistols used in the attack. Not a CCW holder. (it's worth noting that this incident was the one responsible for the creation of
the popular phrase "going postal")

July 18, 1984 – James Oliver Huberty kills twenty-two and injures nineteen in San Ysidro, California. - Motive unknown. No documented history of
mental illness or medication, though he did have anger issues. Unable to verify origin or legality of weapons. Not a CCW holder.

August 20, 1982 – Carl Robert Brown kills eight and injures three in Miami, Florida with a gun purchased from Garcia Gun Center in Hialeah, Florida.
- Motive appears to be in relation to a disagreement over perceived shoddy work on a lawnmower motor. Shooter had a history of mental illness. Weapons
appear to have been legally obtained. Not a CCW holder.

Observations

During the course of my research for this revision, report, paper, whatever you want to call it...i have come to the conclusion that anyone can decide
to kill people at any time, and for pretty much any reason...there are a lot of sick people in the world. Despite this, i still don't think the
solution is gun-free zones, more laws, and infringement upon people's constitutional right to keep and bear arms in their own defense.

now then, some of the things i have uncovered while researching these sick som'bitches...

- This list was full of inaccuracies, and unverifiable data.

- Virtually NONE of the perpetrators were CCW permit holders.

- A significant number of the people on this list were mentally ill, and on psychiatric medications with side effects that could very easily have
caused them to do what the did.

- Two of the perpetrators were military, and one of them was even a cop.

- One of the perps used a hammer, as well as a gun.

- In a lot of cases, the ONLY piece of corroborating information for key pieces of data on this list, was this list itself, which i have found has
been bandied about as absolute fact, on message boards, forums, list servers, chat channels, and various other communities across the internet.

- The original source of this list cites absolutely NO sources for it's assertions, with regard to origin of weapons, or their legal ownership.

- A number of the people on this list were prohibited persons, who's killing sprees could have been avoided, had law enforcement did their job
properly.

- Not a single new law would have stopped ANY of these killings from happening, and will not stop future killings.

- A large number of these killing sprees could have been abruptly cut short, had one or more (armed) valid CCW holders been present.

- This took far longer to complete, than i had anticipated.

- This list, IN NO WAY, supports the OP's assertion that CCW holders are blood-thirsty homicidal maniacs, just waiting for a chance to kill
someone.

As we have discovered, laws on the books are not being enforced, (except in NJ, where apparently, according to one poster the penalty for a single
errant round or shell casing is immediate execution at the time of discovery by the officer at the scene) so if those laws were enforced and not
suppressed by the gun lobby, many of those incidents may never have happened.

No law can prevent all crime, but they do help reduce crime and give law enforcement tools they can use to prosecute criminals better.

originally posted by: HauntWok
...so if those laws were enforced and not suppressed by the gun lobby, many of those incidents may never have happened.

How does the gun lobby 'suppress' the laws? Do they have a gun lobbyist in every police department at both the local and state level as well as in
all federal agencies where these laws are supposed to have been enforced?

Explain in detail how this works instead of your usual drive by hyperbole mode.

Someone else noted which show it had been. 1,000 Ways to Die is the one which profiled the .22 bullet story and subsequent Darwin award case for the
driver.

It's fine and good to call it urban legend, except that 1,000 Ways to Die doesn't do urban legends. They have some of the wildest and most
unbelievable mishaps and misadventures for how someone gets themselves killed, but their stories come with a death certificate and a story based in
fact as far as I know.

They take enough creative license to make it entertaining, but still based in fact.

Someone else noted which show it had been. 1,000 Ways to Die is the one which profiled the .22 bullet story and subsequent Darwin award case for the
driver.

It's fine and good to call it urban legend, except that 1,000 Ways to Die doesn't do urban legends. They have some of the wildest and most
unbelievable mishaps and misadventures for how someone gets themselves killed, but their stories come with a death certificate and a story based in
fact as far as I know.

They take enough creative license to make it entertaining, but still based in fact.

As we have discovered, laws on the books are not being enforced, (except in NJ, where apparently, according to one poster the penalty for a single
errant round or shell casing is immediate execution at the time of discovery by the officer at the scene) so if those laws were enforced and not
suppressed by the gun lobby, many of those incidents may never have happened.

And again, for like the hundredth time. How is the "Gun Lobby" suppressing the enforcement of laws?

PolitiFact in March rated as “true” this statement by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg: “In fact, if you go back to 1999, [NRA chief
executive] Wayne LaPierre testified on behalf of the NRA that background checks were appropriate and should be done.

And for this hundredth time. Your full of crap. Not only do you lie, when you present something as proof, it is from sources like Mother Jones and is
blasted apart easily. And when something doesn't conform to your stance, you omit portions.

You really should stick with your day job as the moonlighting Anti-2nd gig isn't really panning out.

So many people seem to go against guns using 'deaths' as a persuader and so many go for guns using 'death' as a persuader.

IMO its not how many deaths made or prevented by guns is the issue, but how a society ended up with such an issue to be in this position in the first
place?

Sorry to say im somewhat on the fence on this subject, I have no connection to USA other than one family member who carries, he does however seem to
be with most of the postings here about 'Its our right' and using the 2nd Amendment as which I feel is fair enough its in the foundations after
all.

So from an outsiders point a view, so many other countries have been invaded in the past and have the risks of being 'self invaded' (a few ATS
members I have seen mention that their goverment wants the people defensless)

Why USA? out of so many that have gone through a very similar timeline with the founding of a new country and placing laws to protect itself and its
citizens, ends up having a debate in the first place about fireams?

It is obvious to me many people are afraid of others having guns and many afraid to not be able to carry.
What happend for USA to be in this situation? Is it really all down to a constitution written up?

I like guns tbh I find them a fasinating tool for many uses more good than bad IMO but what concerns me is so many who get so offended by pro/against
the idea of carrying a firearm around other people. Then again different culture so different views, I never had the slightest feeling of needing any
tool that was designed to relay projectiles in quick succession. Which is the only thing I have against firearms, I can understand self defence but
where some firearms can hold 10+ ammunition and are semi-auto.......

It Boggles my mind someone needs to hunt/defend demselves and need an extra 9 bullets just to be safe before the need to reload. Again, I see it as
fear. For war, however ofcourse the more the better but last I heard, USA is not in Civil War and looks no way close to being like that. Well from my
point of view at lease.

(except in NJ, where apparently, according to one poster the penalty for a single errant round or shell casing is immediate execution at the time of
discovery by the officer at the scene)

Now, now Wokkie.... you know that I never said that the penalty is immediate execution. You also know that I wasn't speaking of shell casings being
illegal. It is HOLLOWPOINT bullets that are illegal in NJ.

That's right, I could get thrown in jail for ten years for possessing ONE HOLLOWPOINT BULLET in the state of New Jersey!

Funny part is, hollowpoint bullets are less dangerous to innocent bystanders.

It's a shame Snopes shows that story as strictly their own unsourced statement. It happens to be true about it being an urban legend, as I discovered
and thank you for the direction to pursue. It just took a bit more than the one check to confirm it.

I like Snopes because they usually back stop everything they say with linked supporting documents. Sad they didn't this time, since it's still
presented in a very confusing way.

This area of a competing Darwin Awards site presents it as factual and a real event, while the
original Darwin Awards site shows it as the hoax you note it turned out to be. The
original Darwin site gives the specific date for the retraction in the Arkansas Gazette, which Snopes forgot, and that helped a great deal to confirm.
(Oct 17, 1997)

Thanks, and I guess that removes the only case I thought I knew of. (sheepish smile)

Perhaps 'people like me' get 'this stuff' from the fact it's presented as fact after running in a real newspaper that is published for a real
audience. I don't receive the Arkansas Gazette and I sure didn't in the mid-90's, so I took what was being presented by other sources in not just a
television show but several other places as being accurate. My mistake and an embarrassing one.

Another member helpfully directed me to where I could confirm the urban legend status. Wikipedia is it's own source of urban legends, but thanks
anyway.

It Boggles my mind someone needs to hunt/defend demselves and need an extra 9 bullets just to be safe before the need to reload. Again, I see it as
fear. For war, however ofcourse the more the better but last I heard, USA is not in Civil War and looks no way close to being like that. Well from my
point of view at lease.

AS for your last bit, normal capacity magazines are necessary in the light of multiple assailants. Here is an article about a man using an AR-15 to
defend himself from a home invasion. Had he been restricted in his capacity, he'd likely be dead.

Not very bright home invading thugs decide to invade the home of a national guardsman vet who owns an AR-15. Had they bothered to notice the pro-gun
sticker on his SUV, they may have gone somewhere else. Epic fail on their part.

It's a shame Snopes shows that story as strictly their own unsourced statement. It happens to be true about it being an urban legend, as I discovered
and thank you for the direction to pursue. It just took a bit more than the one check to confirm it.

I like Snopes because they usually back stop everything they say with linked supporting documents. Sad they didn't this time, since it's still
presented in a very confusing way.

This area of a competing Darwin Awards site presents it as factual and a real event, while the
original Darwin Awards site shows it as the hoax you note it turned out to be. The
original Darwin site gives the specific date for the retraction in the Arkansas Gazette, which Snopes forgot, and that helped a great deal to confirm.
(Oct 17, 1997)

Thanks, and I guess that removes the only case I thought I knew of. (sheepish smile)

LOL. No worries. I got a chuckle out of the story when I first heard it--almost 20 years ago!?!?! Holy #, I can't be that old.

Thanks for the information, never heard of anything like this before. Too right he needed AR-15 in this case and sad to say many more most likely need
and may need in the future for this sort of protection. Shame it's like that.

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