I heard a statistic just last night that said we currently have a ratio of 1 police officers in this country to 400 citizens. With statistics (facts?) like that, natural disasters in densely populated areas becoming more common, gangs continuing to rise, the economy in a spin, and degradation of democracy all over the world, can we afford to lose our 2nd Amendment right and the right to protect ourselves? I would think LEO's all over the country would welcome support, and who says we can even trust all of them?

this is a slippery subject, I was deployed to Katrina since I was with the National guard in Arkansas, we went there to help, and were shot at more than once before we even to our destination, they pulled us back and we had to wait for Kevlar helmets and body armor to get sent to us.

Lesson one, when the cops knock on your door dont answer the door with a gun in your hand, should have that one comming

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nelson96

Knowing the dire situation some had to face (either hunkering down and waiting for people like you to help, or getting out of dodge), do you blame any of them for getting pissed off that their protection was taken away from them?

Just asking, all I saw was what the guy behind the camera wanted me to see.

Personally I dont believe the Gov should have the right to take away your guns, however I see what they were trying to do, that place had degenerated to total chaos, so they were trying to disarm everyone. off course as orders are passed down, things change, those in charge interpret the orders differently, some of the cops I am sure done what they felt like they should do etc. it was a bad situation. and I am glad I was not the one that had to make that decision to disarm the public.

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nelson96

Personally I dont believe the Gov should have the right to take away your guns, however I see what they were trying to do, that place had degenerated to total chaos, so they were trying to disarm everyone. off course as orders are passed down, things change, those in charge interpret the orders differently, some of the cops I am sure done what they felt like they should do etc. it was a bad situation. and I am glad I was not the one that had to make that decision to disarm the public.

Orders smorders . . . What happened to common sense in leaving the people alone that were kegged up in their homes minding their own business and waiting it out. No, they had to go bust in. I am SURE there was plenty of higher priority targets to deal with and people who truly need help. What happened to common sense in reporting to your boss you took down EVERY home on 122nd street when actually you only went to the ones that had signs of looting or what not. There's no way they could have gone to every home anyway, so be selective (smart).

Regardless of how it is justified, it really sucks. When you need the protection the most (be it your own firearm or counting on the police) they let you down in crunch time. I just wonder if by going house to house they actually took firearms off anyone that was using the firearm maliciously?. . . That's some scary stuff.

Unfortunately, the point that seems to be missed is that the act of disarming American citizens is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and ILLEGAL. Whether someone issued orders is irrelevant. It is the duty of military and law enforcement to refuse orders that are either. If my Commanding Officer ordered me to rape a 4 year old, I have just been ordered to commit an illegal act. The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) is crystal clear about what I must do next. Following that order is, incidentally, NOT one of the following actions.

Just because there didn't happen to be a specific Federal Law (which there now is) during Katrina is also irrelevant. An UNCONSTITUTIONAL action taken by a corrupt local government must be resisted, not sanctioned or even debated. There will of course be repercussions and consequences, such as a possible shoot out with cops. Unfortunately, too many people are content to surrender their Rights and bitch about it later.

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nelson96

Unfortunately, the point that seems to be missed is that the act of disarming American citizens is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and ILLEGAL. Whether someone issued orders is irrelevant. It is the duty of military and law enforcement to refuse orders that are either. If my Commanding Officer ordered me to rape a 4 year old, I have just been ordered to commit an illegal act. The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) is crystal clear about what I must do next. Following that order is, incidentally, NOT one of the following actions.

Just because there didn't happen to be a specific Federal Law (which there now is) during Katrina is also irrelevant. An UNCONSTITUTIONAL action taken by a corrupt local government must be resisted, not sanctioned or even debated. There will of course be repercussions and consequences, such as a possible shoot out with cops. Unfortunately, too many people are content to surrender their Rights and bitch about it later.

+1 . . . Man, you always seem to be able to make the point I want to make, but you always find the words to do it so much better.

+1 . . . Man, you always seem to be able to make the point I want to make, but you always find the words to do it so much better.

I don't think that I make my points any better than you man. I've just got a lot of time on my hands here. Consequently the posts come out fairly concise. If I had a real job back in the U.S. like you, my posts would come out likely gibberish.....if I had time to participate at all.

I wish I could adequately convey my fear of finding myself in this situation. I have not come to terms with the idea of shooting a LEO in the act of illegally taking my firearms. My plan is to be sneaky about it and give bait guns, but I know I can’t be the only one with that idea. The .GOV will eventually catch on to this. It will then come down to fight or flight and I still don’t how I will react. You almost know its coming. Sometimes I can almost feel it in the air like a storm.

I feel the same way... and really hope I never have to make that decision.

Look nobody wants to shoot "deputy Jim-Bob" from down the block. But "dang-it"; Disarming good folks trying to protect their own when firearms are most needed(katrina) is evil(and unconstitutional /illegal).

if you are going to enter my home in full battle rattle to put my family in danger. We have a right to respond in kind. Don't want a civil disturbance? quit disturbing us.

How disgusting to see that video and the actions of those police officers. I don't agree with "we were just following orders". Grow a pair and do what's right. Did they have orders to beat up that old lady that was obviously prepared to stay on her own, and posed no threat to them? What about orders to destroy some of the guns they confiscated? I was near Katrina, but not affected by it directly, and if the local government can do what they did on a small scale like that, what do you think the US Government can do on a large scale basis?

Do I agree with people shooting at LEO's? NO. Do I believe they have a job to do? YES. But, you have to use common sense in your job. I run pipelines all over the country at mine. If I thought there was a possibility of a leak should I keep adding pumps and running that line? Common sense says NO. Sorry, but I have no remorse towards stupidity, LEO or not. What they did in those videos was not right and they know it. I agree they were in a tough situation, but it was what it was.....deal with it. breaking the law and disarming those citizens was not the right call no matter which way you slice it.

The discussion has been brought up here at my job as to what one would do if it came down to the government coming to my door and wanting my guns. All I have to say is, if you aint playin fair, then neither am I. I sold those guns a while back officer. Here is a bill of sale. I no longer own them. Have a nice day, and please get off my property.

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nelson96

If you ever thought about getting behind an organization, well here you go . . .

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic , so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution.

The mission(s) of the Oath Keepers is to ensure that if any of the following happens:

Orders to disarm the American people.

Orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people.

Orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

Orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

Orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

Any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

Any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

Orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."

Any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

Any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

They, as military/LEO, will not only disobey said order, but also will do anything and everything, up to and including firing shots, to prevent said order(s) from happening.

Yeah, I have seen them before. To be honest with you, with all that has been happening in this country in the past few months and the direction we seem to be heading, I have really opened my eyes to trying to keep a lower profile. My concern with joining the NRA or Oathkeepers would be that in the even they decided to, that would be the first places the government may go to get lists of people that are not for their cause. It may be paranoid, but I have seen things happen here that I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I have a family and have to think about them as well. Saw an Oathkeeper goingdown the road the other day, he had a huge oathkeeper sticker on his back windshield.

There is no resistance. If they decide to come for your guns, it is not going to be one local deputy. It will be full on riot gear. I don't care what you have or how hard wired you are - they have IR, cell phone taps, night vision, etc - add in flash bangs, tear gas, etc - they will storm the place and if they meet armed resistance, you will get killed. Period.

This stuff already happens when they get an address wrong on a felony arrest. They storm in, shoot your dog, maybe shoot you, handcuff your family. Later, maybe you get a back page of the paper apology.