Below is the proposal passed by the Occupy Oakland General Assembly on Wednesday October 26, 2011 in reclaimed Oscar Grant Plaza. 1607 people voted. 1484 voted in favor of the resolution, 77 abstained and 46 voted against it, passing the proposal at 96.9%. The General Assembly operates on a modified consensus process that passes proposals with 90% in favor and with abstaining votes removed from the final count.

Propuesta

We as fellow occupiers of Oscar Grant Plaza propose that on Wednesday November 2, 2011, we liberate Oakland and shut down the 1%.

We propose a city wide general strike and we propose we invite all students to walk out of school. Instead of workers going to work and students going to school, the people will converge on downtown Oakland to shut down the city.

All banks and corporations should close down for the day or we will march on them.

While we are calling for a general strike, we are also calling for much more. People who organize out of their neighborhoods, schools, community organizations, affinity groups, workplaces and families are encouraged to self organize in a way that allows them to participate in shutting down the city in whatever manner they are comfortable with and capable of.

The whole world is watching Oakland. Let’s show them what is possible.

yeah ok,. "bambi" lets judge people based on the name the choose for a net forum,. good idea.. hows your mom?

"Looks like you all believed this story, too....which turns out to be false" yes the story you link to is false,. it is a lame character assassination attempt, by fearful corporate shills, with a fetish for a military/police state run by corporate bankers.

Fossil fuels are among the greatest blessings upon mankind. And, we just found a LOT more of them in the form of natural gas! We have energy independence coming - another century of progress! Long enough to perfect nuclear energy and move forward.

I don't consider it a blessing, I consider it (and nuclear power) as several of the best energy sources we have right now. Battery technology has not significantly improved over it's lifetime, although I'd prefer it over gas or nuclear, no question.

Battery technology has not improved? Lithium ion, not an improvement over lead acid. You better do a little research on that one. That said batteries are not an energy source, they are a means of storage, so it isn't battery over gas, nuclear. Batteries have to be charged from a source.

What I mean is, just when our society evolves and discovers advanced power generation, we discover vast pools of oil underground just waiting for us. And there seems to be enough of it to last for hundreds of years - long enough for us to move on to the next stage of evolution (fission/fusion).

Peak uranium happened quite a few years ago and today approx 95% of the spent waste sits in the cooling tanks because they don't have a way of disposing of it.

Fission we have and it is unsustainable into the future.

Fusion happens on the sun converting hydrogen to helium amongst other things but is unlikely to ever be a source of energy for humans for many reasons including laws of physics.

Cornucopians talk of many hopes that are without a sound basis.

The energy equation has been very well researched and allowances for many times the energy from known sources, reserves and likely sources have been allowed for, to show we will run out mid century. Even if all that is doubled it makes little difference to the problem.

Meanwhile if the pipeline down the West coast is run to transport tar sand gas then we may as well give up as the CO2 count will be past runaway changes to the biosphere.

America uses a barrel of oil a day for very 15 people, while China uses a barrel for every 175, India for every 416 and Afghanistan 63.000 people.

We emit 17.5 tons of CO2 per capita a year down from 20 tons in 2000. China 4.9 tons up from 2.7 in 2000 whiie Afghanistan less than 0.05 tons.

The answer is so simple. we reduce out energy usage, readjust the economy to include natural resources when balancing the books and redistribute wealth .

The biggest problem is not the science but the baffling ignorance that keeps denying there is a problem.

The 1% drive that as consumerism is how they milk the cow for their own profit.

Energy demand and shortage is but one of many growing problems that will cut human population drastically. The longer we carry on as we are then the smaller the resulting sustainable population will be.

John Wa ; Does anyone else here know about the reality of peak oil? What about peak rock phosphate, not to mention uranium as you mentioned, and many other resources. Thanks for helping with awareness of these issues.

There is a massive amount of information on the dire path ahead. There also is a equally massive amount of lies and BS put out by the 1% and echoed by the timid who don't want to know about what we face with decline.

Human population has increased exponentially since the industrial revolution and now is unsustainable.

It was unsustainable a century ago and serious damage is continuing to our bioshere and the potential for future food production. Forget the Monsanto ( 1% poison – but do watch the DVD “The World of Monsanto” ) hype about improved seed as their legacy has been disaster to many communities. Hydroponic alternative for failed soils is also just rubbish. Water and all the resources needed are greater in sum than good soil carefully managed.

Were alternatives available then growth and exploitation would outstrip them anyway.

On CO2 increase alone ( mainly caused by fossil fuel burning ) the rise in sea level will wipe out nearly all city ports and millions of acres of productive crop growing land. The sea is increasingly acidic absorbing CO2 and coral and other life is dying off.

The fossil fuel industry is not only irresponsible but runs a campaign of lies and corruption creating their profit from destruction. Meanwhile our infrastructure is designed to weld us to the fossil fuel and ultimately catastrophic collapse.

Presently we use 4 tons of oil to produce 1 ton of grain. We have been channeled into doing things the wrong way. The whole of our western civilization is organized to feed oil companies. We are very vulnerable. The 1% rule our existence and our demise.

Countries such as Afghanistan have a much better chance of survival and we should leave them alone. Unfortunately the atmosphere we have damaged has to be shared by all.
The 1% make the profit and the 99% pay the coat. We pay for them. (They must be Commies ha ha.)
The truth is the 1% love socialism because we bail them out; but they keep the profit. If they shared the profit then bailout would be viewed differently and perhaps clamps on gambling out future would also be addressed.

The world is finite.... full stop.

As we use up resources and deposits that have taken hundreds of millions of years to accumulate they will not be renewed in the time of man's future existence. The future of our children and grandchildren has been severely limited by the consumption and needless exploitation that amounts to organized destructive greed.

Some of the world's present population live close a sustainable life style but the Western world do not.

China and India are moving into a phase of emulating the disasterous pathway modeled by the USA.

The 1% are very much involved with this as they invest and control the growth of consumerism in the developing world while stripping resources for profit as fast as they can. Human life means nothing to them as they invade with megabux, mercenaries and corruption, military power and invasion, soaking up massive amount of resources creating weapons and explosives all paid for by us.

Oil, coal, metals, rare earths are prizes for the mega pirates and toxic pollution, desolation and broken communities are left. Deforestation further decimates animal species and further renders our atmosphere and soil less able to cope with repairing the life supporting air, soil, waters and the micro organisms that keep our world productive and liveable.

If we want to eat and live then look after our planet; or have can have cities where cars are needed to make a crazy short term destructive which will limit our future and all food will need to be transported to people there. You should be able to see the weakness and vulnerability we have.

A brief out line here but there are many other more detailed and informative sites.

For a better understanding do look up the 1972 report entitled “Limits to Growth” It has been reviewed many times by the scientific community to be found right on track. Even 40 years later it is right on track. “Beyond growth “ is another search

Beware the myths and propaganda against this report promulgated by the 1%. They do not want profit for now interfered with. They have NO RESPONSIBILITY for future good but are very responsible for massive future misery as they have opposed and diverted every thrust to address our overshoot.

To educate yourself looking at both sides of an argument is fundamental. Just looking for what you want to believe is common but worthless.

No answer remains immutable but weight of peer reviewed independent scientific evidence and thought accepts that the world resources are finite, the laws of physics are the best guiding principles we have and that ignorance and willed misrepresentation are our biggest problem.

The 1% have an interest in keeping us divided and ignorant consumers and we are expendable when used to further their ends.

It is amazing how many opinions and delusions - dressed up as facts - that you were able to cram in such a small space. My hat comes off to you.

I have given up arguing with members of the warmist cult: It is religion and dogma to you, and rational science will not convince you. I don't care what you believe, just don't try to steer public policy in your delusional directions. Your true colors are that you want us all to return to some idyllic (and mythical) past that you have dreamed up. But our path is to consume prodigious amounts of energy: That, in a real sense, is what homo sapiens does. We evolved because we found a way to literally light up our brains with energy. We improved our quality of life in a couple of thousand years because we harnessed more forms of energy. It ain't gonna stop . . . .

Well whatever evidence you have based your present beliefs on do be prepared to change your understanding as you find out more about it. You owe it to yourself and others who also have to put up with the consequences of present and continuing changes.

Learning is possibly more important than arguing so personal energy directed to finding out will be the most productive.

You may not have read the recent extremely detailed most comprehensive analysis of temperature reading going back as far as records pemit. It was commissioned by a well known and leading sceptic. The results have been widely published.

My discussion has not been based on temperature and if you have read the report " Limits to Growth" you will find temperature is not a feature of the finding there either. The changes happening are not solely a factor of temperature. Check out acidification of the ocean as CO2 absorbed increases.

Over shoot of population and exploitation of resources will have consequences that limit such activity and you and I will see those consequences more plainly and restrictions increase.

Scrap metal prices rise as ore is becoming harder to find and more expensive to extract; all energy intensive activities. Water shortages are part of world increasing problems. Soil is becoming exhausted as intensive cropping and use for fertilizers has damaged the microbiotic living organism that make soil fertile.

I can give you endless references but with a search engine you can find your own and have a chance to read both sides. Consistency of evidence along with reliability of recognized scientific authority is something for you to come to terms with.

Mankind have increased population exponentially over the last 250 years. That is a relatively new phenomena and if you have had a chance to look at rapid population growth in most species there are always checks as a result of resource and environmental factors. Nothing new.

The world is finite and there is nothing hard about that.

While there is a lot to find out about I wish you good luck on the journey.

we can easily make free energy using the natural force of magnets (in place of wind) to turn turbines.

Localize these and eliminate energy waste. This would essentially put large energy corporations out of business and is not promoted because of the same principal that pharmaceutical companies never investigate or develop treatments or medicine using natural medicines that people could get or even grow for themselves.

Fossil fuels worked for a while and were the best technology for their times, but we have much better, cleaner technologies now, and we MUST move on from them. Avoiding moving on from them is being completely IRRESPONSIBLE and GREEDY.

We have NOTHING better right now. Wind and Solar are a joke, and we have shut down our own nuclear program in some kind of insane societal dysfunction. So called "green" and "renewable" energy sources are (a) environmental disasters, and (b) not feasible due to energy density and localization problems.

I highly doubt it. I will check out your link. Most "renewable" energy systems have gas fired backup systems with EQUAL output to the "renewable" source. They go on and off (mostly on) to make up the gaps. Absurd, but the people who actually have to produce reliable power can't just talk it into existence.

Portugal relies largely on stored hydro. Solar thermal is much more cost efficient than PV panels. I would dispute your claim that renewables create more environmental impact, but I also know something about "peak oil". I have a feeling you will disagree on that if you have bought into "abiotic oil "silliness.

Peak oil? We are always reaching the limits of oil, right until they find yet more vast reserves. We are not running out of oil. What, then, is the driver for all this "alternative" energy stuff? Why do we need it, and why should we pay more for it?

I agree with FM on this one, Swiss. Nuclear and oil are several of the best means of energy production available to us, especially oil. Once solar hits the sweet spot of cost/power versus oil or nuclear, we'll see widespread adoption. That hasn't happened yet.

The amount of land that would be required to scale up solar power to meet the needs of our civilization would beggar the imagination - even at 100% conversion. It would be an environmental nightmare: Loss of ground cover, huge amounts of water required to clean the panels, huge amounts of concrete to be poured, vast amounts of heavy metals needed to make the panels . . . And after that - no way to store the highly intermittent energy that is produced. It is a force fit boondoggle stimulated entirely by government money.

If solar were ever to hit levels such as 40% or 50% efficiency at a much more competitive cost that we've seen, we could see a far reduced role for nuclear power plants. I'd wager local power production could be done far more efficiently, with solar panels on roofs, even used as paint on the outsides of buildings. That day may or may not ever come, that's why gas and nuke power will be around a long time.

No need to move on. The USA has enough natural gas, oil and coal for hundreds of years. All we have to do is go after it. The world runs on oil. Clean technology? Nice to see you buy into that scam. You're one of the useful idiots.

Whether or not the US has enough natural gas, oil or coal to run for hundreds of years is highly disputable. Also it should be kept in mind that statistics are often given in terms of "at current rates of consumption", not allowing for projected increases in demand.

we can easily make free energy using the natural force of magnets (in place of wind) to turn turbines.

Localize these and eliminate energy waste. This would essentially put large energy corporations out of business and is not promoted because of the same principal that pharmaceutical companies never investigate or develop treatments or medicine using natural medicines that people could get or even grow for themselves.

um... did you even watch any of the videos? if you did then you would know we have already created prototype devices.

we didn't defy any laws of physics, it's pretty simple actually, magnets have natural force, they push and pull. we use that natural force to spin rotors and create energy, for free....

just for a good laugh, what laws of physics did we violate and whose gonna come after us? -- please educate yourselves, are most of you posting here part of the "occupation" -- we would hope there would be SOME intelligent life form, wow

blocade: Well, since you stumbled upon our secret (we start doing this out at Area 51 in the '70's), you should know that you are pumping that energy out of the false vacuum, which connects through filament wormholes to the planet Tralfamadore: You're KILLING those people and their unicorns!!! The energy comes from their biosystems!!! STOP please!!

Here are some guidelines for dialogue in its most basic form
We talk about what's really important to us.
We really listen to each other. We see how thoroughly we can understand each other's views and experience.
We say what's true for us without making each other wrong.
We see what we can learn together by exploring things together.
We avoid monopolizing the conversation. We make sure everyone has a chance to speak.

Do you drive a car, SwissMIss? If you drive an electric, you must keep in mind that nuclear power plants are providing your electric power, unless you are near a hydro-electric facility. It has been proven that the pollution saved by use of an electric merely shifts the production of emissions and pollutants to the power generation facility, so you are technically not really having the effect you think you are.

BS on that one." Electric cars merely shift the production of emissions and pollutants to the power generation facility". Even with today's mix they are significantly cleaner. I notice you offer no documentation.
http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf

more than 90 percent of our green house gases come from the combustion of fossil fuels which is a leading cause of global warming, that and fossil fuels are not a renewable energy source being that it takes millions of years to become.

There is almost no evidence whatsoever that carbon dioxide leads to "global warming". Take this from a physicist who has looked into the matter in some detail. Save the outraged response that "all the top scientists" agree - that is pure bunk. The UN and all the journalists agree, and this about it.

ok. you convinced me, the world of science, god, and the 1%. to think any- (is, thing,the right word?) wrong. there must be a reification / rationalistion, if not, what then of science, god, and the 1%???

folks seem to think business can just abandon oil and nuclear for all this other green technology....its not economically feasible and in the long run will bankrupt companies leaving us worse off. Let the technology develop over time and get more efficient and cheaper....we still have scientists working on this stuff in labs that will one day find a new way for cheaper energy

I'm a scientist, and hence open to all ideas, rather than stuck on in some dogmatic rut like you seem to be. There is some reason to think abiotic oil might be true, and there are other reasons not to. Why couldn't microbes synthesize hydrocarbons - is that a fundamentally radical idea? You folks here think science is "fashion" - a set of beliefs that you must share to be part of your liberal tribe. But that's not the way it works.

Yes,I think it is theoretically possible to synthesize hydrocarbons. All unrefined oil carries microscopic evidence of the organisms it was formed from that can be traced through the fossil record to the specific time periods when quantities of oil were formed. Ironic that you think this is somehow a "liberal" thing when the primary proponent of "abiotic oil" Was Dmitri Mendeleev, a soviet communist and the only place it ever gained any acceptance was The Soviet Union.

Try to get as many on the police force to join the strike as possible. if you could get 51% of the cops to call in sick on Nov 2 it would be a major victory. I suspect many cops all over the country agree with the protesters and yet need to keep their jobs. But if they'd just call in sick one day, Nov 2, it'd make quite a statement.

It would be good to think up actions which are maybe less associated with the left as a strike. The ows movement has garnered a huge support across states, across party lines. Let's be creative about ways of protesting, with good brainstorming session, the assemblies should be able to come up with a range of actions. Even small individual steps can have large repercussions, as the wonderful "slow down" action in Argentina, where on a given day, everyone started working more slowly. Protests were severely repressed but there was nothing they could do about people slowing down.

Yes, please. Make it positive. Try to remember the 1% won't be affected by almost any kind of typical strike. Remember: This is for the 99% of people. You have to understand the diversity in that group and make OWS understandable for them.

You are still in educating mode. Please don't forget that. If you think that some day of rage is going to bring down the system, please consider meds.

I hope people will be creative. The old left strategy appeals to 2 kinds of people--people who unrealistic about political opportunities and want to re-live the past and people who are young and don't know which things have tried before and not worked.

But there are new voices and new people with better ideas coming in here--I hope they will be taking a major role.

Fingers crossed! I trust the occupiers to be smart. They've been so smart about everything so far.

It has NOT garnered huge support across states and party lines. Stop kidding yourself. The liberal media loves it, and will prostitute all of you until something more interesting comes up. For many of the viewers, it's like watching a slow motion train wreck. We know how this will end.

Brilliant idea. So when we have thousands of pissed off workers grouped together, now we have no police to help keep order. Absolutely brilliant! I'm sure no one will end up hurt or killed because all the police are on strike and the mobs will remain absolutely calm, I'm sure!

See, the mistake idiots like you make is to assume we do not already have this many pissed off "workers". I don't know about you, but I work for a living. Why don't you step aside and let the people that made this world great, and run it now, make it even better.

The country is already mob rule, that is a fact. All countries and societies are mob rule because they are ultimately just groups of people. You think the constitution was made and is enforced by some sort of god?

The problem is that the mob that has all the power right now is the wealthiest 1%, and we don't like that. We're changing it whether they agree or not.

The mistake you make is thinking that people won't keep their faith in the system if they think the alternative is chaos.

You have a just cause and you are implying it licenses you to do anything. That is a HUGE mistake. Please look at the history of the left and its failures before you romanticize this tired model. There is an alternative to that method.

The goals I support. The methods have been used and failed miserably. It was people's egos getting in the way. Don't let ideological egomaniacs derail the movement this time.

Dont kid yourself, these guys get a rush from strapping on their riot gear, it takes a different kind of individual to do the job of police officer, didnt you notice the smiles on the faces of the Denver cops, ??
Best to talk to the ACLU before anyone gets too carried away with anything, unless you want to get carried away

Not likely given the Police Union has threatened civil action against OWS if one more officer is injured dealing with the violent amongst you. You best save that 500k to pay the unions. Boy now that I think of it, what a brilliant way to funnel OWS money to the unions though. Coincidence?

Or the provocateurs and false flag agents among us. Besides, they can sue us all they want and the cannot do anything.

Even if corrupt courts side with them, they cannot enforce anything that is not just in the opinion of we the people. They already want to crush us, they already have excuses like tresspassing, the riot act etc. at their disposal, and they cannot use them because people are not fooled.

The police seem like a bunch of uneducated ego maniacs. Most understand what we are protesting against and it affects all of the us the entire world. Stopping us from what we are doing is a clear indication of the general ignorance that consumes American police.

Who exactly do they think they are protecting when they clear us out of parks? Who is giving these orders?

The world must change and we must be focused on bringing about these changes, with as ridiculous as things are throughout the world it is amazing that we haven't stopped what we are doing to fix it.

Especially the US where the population is so consumed with their little make believe world of beauty, popularity and artificial wealth - American consumerism and conscience is pitiful and we are supposed to be bringing this way of life to the rest of the globe? We are creating a world of fools!

It's also their training, they are heavily brainwashed. Many retired or ex-cops can tell you how they slowly woke up and threw off their training that had brainwashed them for all those years, and realized that what they had done was wrong. And in many cases were deeply remorseful, esp. with regards to the war on drugs activity.

But that's not enough - they are still making it that much more difficult to get democracy implemented in this country, and that matters. It is their personal responsibility to obey the constitution and not be evil, to educate themselves instead of wallowing in their ignorance.

Wow, your comment really brought out the Rambo in people! I'm glad that every right winger here is basically admitting how violent their reactionary mentality is. Thanks for doing the work of exposing you guys for us, reactionaries!

And here are some responses to their comments:

Give up the whole "you're all hippies who deserve to be bludgeoned to death" thing. Polls taken repeatedly show that the demographic of OWS includes substantial numbers of hard-working, pro-capitalist Americans who don't see anything "capitalistic" in unhinged-market sociopathology. I suppose these people need a righteous beating just because they caused the reactionaries to react - that's what we get for infringing on their right to be vicious bastards! But just some tactical advice: if you're trying to discredit the movement, you're not going to succeed this way. Since the "normal" people who support OWS probably won't appreciate what you've been saying about them, they're going to spread the real word about the movement if you keep talking trash about them.

Actually, when I was arrested at the Bridge, four out of the five cops who spoke to me said we were doing this for a good cause, and asked me no further questions (which suggests that they weren't just sympathizing to get me to admit something (not that I had anything to admit)). And the fifth, my arresting officer, was more than willing to discuss with us our concerns - he even said that his family was on our side, but that he only had reservations because our chances of success were slim. I wonder what he'd say now that we have such widespread support. Also, I have several cops in my family who have directly expressed support for us, so go figure. I don't think this necessarily means that the police will strike, but I do know that it means they're not all "hard core conservatives."

Way to show once again how tough you are, freemarkets! By the way, you don't need the addresses of the protestors to go do whatever it is you plan. They're going to be at the place where they've advertised they're protesting. Since you're a one-man army, you should be able to take them all out by your lonesome. Good thing those police (who are supposedly all on the side of hippy head-busting) won't be there to restrain you! Now go take care of business!

Yes, but you should always remember that the bosses in the hierarchy can pick and choose which officers do what. When they want to be nice, they will pick the decent cops and send them. When they want to be nasty they will pick the psychopaths and send them in to be violent.

This IMO is what gets people so confused about the police, deciding whether they are good or bad.

That is what you have to remember. When you see a line of police, they may be evil or they may be decent people and you can't be sure which one.

Sure, so when you see a line of police, what do you do? As a movement, we are nowhere near the point where violent resistance is either necessary or useful. We will lose if we attack the police, and we will win if we don't. It's that simple. It's just delusional to think the American people are sitting around just waiting for "the revolution" to begin - they're not, but they are willing to listen to people who talk to them about massive social inequality, so that's what we do. And if people see us attempting to cooperate with non-cooperative police, it looks good for us and bad for them. Not fighting the police is much better short term and long term strategy.

I do not want the type of """""""""""""FREEDOM"""""""""""" that you are suggesting. The gigantic quotes err because freedom is the opposite of why you are suggesting. You are promoting the opposite of capitalism. That is communism. In that wonderful government system the government controls EVERYTHING. Nothing is you own. Explain how that is freedom.

you need to learn more, you vocabulary is limited and so is your scope of understanding, "capitalism and communism are opposite" lol - really? you're too funny... you will lose claim on a tree but inherit the forest. we will all lose something and in exchange we will have gained the world.

what are you afraid to lose? you know we don't particularly need you and you do realize that no matter how much you pout about losing your, whatever, it's is inevitable.

what are you trying to hang on to again, it is a pressure cooker, perhaps a big TV so you can watch cars go round and round or a bunch of guys chasing a ball and holding one another tightly?? lol you are amusing, i give you that.

because you will run into natural forces like free markets and supply and demand. They have run the numbers economically for years and they will tell you capitalism is the best system for equality. Not crony capitalism like we have had for 100 years, but actual capitalism with limited regulation. I would love the idea you propose but every single important economist who runs the numbers cannot find a way economically to do so. It would require massive taxes that send businesses away and leave all jobs government jobs.

My favorite thing about blocadesarcasm is how he thinks he can prove a point to us by sending us to a biased, one sided, opinionated website. Doing so reveals your true evil. Ok it is pretty fun to throw around the word evil.

really? and how do you know this? you'd probably want to jump on board when people start talking about building heaven on earth, it's rather difficult to participate in our current flawed system all by yourself.

We've already started working on our new world government and aim to achieve equality, a true democracy and world peace. You'd have to have a really good explanation as to why you would be against a world peace movement.

easy. societies on earth are interdependent but separate with disparate and conflicting interests. even within individual nation states there are tribes at war. look at afghanistan. individuals form tribes/communities based on mutual interests in order to further those aims and interests. then they compete against other communities for control of scarce resources. the world is too divided. we cant even make rational decisions in single nations because people cannot compromise rationally on opposing interests. Look at greece. im not trying to dissuade you from chasing that dream of yours. But thats all that it is, a dream. Here in the real world we will have to figure out how to make sense of where we go from here.

This conversation alone is enough evidence of the fact that PEOPLE CANNOT AGREE on what is right, who is right, they can't even agree on what facts are facts. The best we can do is to try to create a system where all of these flawed people can try to hash it out. In essence thats what we already have, but obviously there is something wrong with society. We need to try to realistically figure out what changes we can make within our society, which has worked pretty well for us, so well in fact that dozens of nations around the world have modeled their systems of governance on Americas. There are problems with society, but that doesnt mean we can just scrap the whole system. We need to figure out whats not working, figure out how we might improve it, and then most importantly, apply enough pressure to put those ideas into place.

There is a basis for all conflict among humans. We all have an innate need to survive and procreate.

humans are no different from animals. like birds that build colorful nests to attract mates human males are driven to do the necessary to secure theirs as well. Females do their best to attract the most suitable male. Both are interested in producing offspring and securing its survival.

it is all very primitive in fact. human conflict occurs when one group or individual feels threatened by others. like animals, humans will fight over food and resources and for the ability to mate.

current market systems and government capitalizes on human nature and there is no doubt that as advanced as we think we are, we are still using force to seize resources from others.

without realizing it humans have let themselves be manipulated into believing that a few people can actually own all of the resources of the earth.

it doesn't matter who thinks they own what or who believes they are right. we are moving on to something new where the old world does not exist, once we connect, there is only us.

so do you want to work toward world peace with us? are you capable of freeing yourself from consumerism?

Well I think, personally, we should just make sure that the governments of countries of people that say they want democracy, have real democracy, and then just try to work together.

Ultimately good, democratic government is just about working together (in contrast to other forms where the rulers have to impose their will by force) .

So world government of a non-coercive form arises naturally. Leave it to the countries to figure things out between themselves once they have democracy in them.

My gripe with "world government" is that it implies a uniform system of laws, which inhibits experimentation and freedom. Imagine what would have happened to wikileaks if there was a uniform legal code - they would not be able to shop for freedom they way they have. The variety is just not there - but variety has intrinsic value.

I hear you, especially about the brainwashing. There's a debate in the NY Times today where (count 'em) two "Christians" openly argued that Evangelicals should campaign for raising the American defense budget. One went so far as to say that increasing our nuclear arsenal was a good thing. I've read and taught the Bible for years, and let me tell you, there's nothing in the New Testament that endorses that position, period. Jesus was violent one time, when he overthrew the tables of the moneychangers in the temple. One time (!!!!), and it was an act of violence against the abuse of money. On the other hand, there are no less than 1200 statements that helping the poor should be the main concern for the faithful. But somehow American "Christians" have decided that, no, nuclear armageddon is the most Christian option (as Jerry Falwell once said, he doesn't care about nuclear war because he knows he'll be in heaven, uh, despite his enormous wealth). There's no other word for what causes this kind of belief than "brainwashing."

I agree. I don't get how those who are supposed to be holy, religious, whatever they want to call themselves, are the biggest proponents of war, violence, rage, etc. Because of that and many other reasons, I never ever will have anything to do with any religion. Most (if not all) are nothing but cults and brands of mind control and manipulation.

Those who are 'holy,religious, etc.' are sinners just like everybody else. It is the real Christian who admits this. Those who don't are the fake religious persons trying to confuse the good that comes from Christianity. Dont be tricked into thinking that the pious 'fakes' represent the true belief. That would be just like saying that OWS is a movement of the rich 1%, trying to further corrupt the system rather than the 99% trying to change it.Even the religious fakes were the enemy of Jesus. Remember, they killed him in the name of holiness. They were the opposite of holy and tricked the secular (and some of the religious) system into thinking that Christ was demonic, the very thing he came to stand against. "Beware, I [ Jesus] send you out as sheep in the mist of wolves".

"Those who don't are the fake religious persons trying to confuse the good that comes from Christianity." That's mostly who I see being connected with religion. I see very few people who truly are good people and who are really religious. I hear that all the time from people, but it seems to me that the majority of people who are religious are fake.

I didn't say we should have no national defense whatsoever. Saying we shouldn't rush headlong towards armageddon is not saying we should not defend ourselves or our allies when they're attacked, nor is it saying we shouldn't try to stop genocide. For forty years, we've entered anti-nuke agreements, and for forty years we've tried to get around them at every step. There is no sense - period - in having an arsenal that can literally destroy all life on this planet. Total nuclear disarmament is the ONLY reasonable ideal, and you can say that it's impractical, but it's still a reasonable ideal. That's how ideals work: they give you goals that you strive toward even if they're not entirely achievable (like "free markets").

Ask yourself this before you cite WWII. If stopping genocide is a moral imperative (and I think it is - I'm not sure you do, except when you need to sound like you do), why didn't the US intervene in Cambodia, East Timor, Rwanda, Sudan, Turkey in the 90s, the Congo...? Why did the US support all of the Latin American juntas and countless African and Middle Eastern dictators? Why did we invade Vietnam or Iraq? Each of these situations has had a death toll that may not individually reach the level of the Holocaust, but altogether they exceed it, and each is directly attributable to our action or our negligence.

But, hell, we did fight WWII, so that clears us of everything else for the rest of time. God, you're disingenuous!

Other countries have nuclear weapons. What the heck is a "reasonable ideal"? You can't wish away other people's weapons: Disarmament is not only practical, it is immoral. We have an obligation to protect the citizens of this country. "Peace through strength" is not only logical, it is proven to work: We never went to war with the Soviets because they never doubted our ability and intent to counterstrike.

Disarmament treaties were signed with other countries. That's the "agreement" part. Nuclear warfare will not protect anyone except the people who can afford to and have the insane desire to live in bunkers. Yes, no one did anything. No, it doesn't make the ideal less reasonable.

And you know damn well what a "reasonable ideal" is, even if you don't agree on the ideal. People like you only ask semantic questions when they want to dodge the point. A 'reasonable ideal" is a goal for activity that is practicable and just. Since everyone who signed the NNPT agreed in doing so, it seems that all parties to that treaty seemed to think it was both practicable and just. Let me help you with two more words: "practicable" means a plan of action one is capable of undertaking, and "just" means according to each what he deserves (in this case, it was agreed that the final goal of disarmament was something all interested parties - i.e. each person in the world - deserved). I'd keep going, but you wouldn't be asking seriously anyway. Just feel free to react hysterically to the fact that I used the word "plan."

And we have no idea why we never went to war with the Soviets - the fact that it didn't happen can't be used to prove the reason why it didn't happen, and we'll never know the reason because it's far beyond human comprehension.

Every new weapon in history has changed the balance of power - from the hand axe onward. Can you look back and envision any disarmament treaty - perhaps in the Bronze Age, for example - that would not have caused the annihilation of the "gullible" side? It's easy for you to rail against the empire as you live in an unprecedented cocoon of peace and security - like the adolescent railing against his parents. In the real world there are people who respond only to force.

You're not asking seriously, but I'll answer anyway. It's been central to the positions of both the libertarian right and left that, on the whole, humanity has tended toward a more peaceful, ameliatory disposition, which justifies the imposition of the "rule of law" instead of retaliatory punitive measures (including the right's favorite example of unjust retaliation - redistributive taxation). This guy constantly comes on here posting two sets of extremely contradicting claims: one, that there should be no government intervention in anything because individuals can always take care of themselves and, two, we should have an enormous military that invades other countries any time they're (somehow) opposed to "freedom" (that very special and widely unaccepted "freedom" of the libertarians - the "freedom" that mainly consists in justifying an ultimately immoral lack of consideration for one's neighbors, for the extent to which each and every one of us rests on the efforts of others, and that simply repaying them whatever small amount of cash we can use our leverage to extort is enough to cover it...). Basically every serious, market-lovin' libertarian (Herbert Spenser, von Mises, Hayek, Nozick, and the Pauls) have come out against excessive defense expenditure. Their whole position that "markets will solve everything" was predicated on the 18th century idea (Montesquieu, Smith, Hume) that commerce was inherently civilizing. Libertarians who want to keep their guns in order to "secure" their money are missing one of the only decent things their forebears said.

Let's go further. Let's say that it's still a dangerous world, and that "it's human nature to be violent" (which ignores the enormous majority of the time when most people aren't violent). Does this justify a nuclear arsenal? Nuclear war will annihilate not only the vast majority of the present population of the earth, but make it virtually uninhabitable for the rest, and for future generations. This, aside from the fact that most victims will be the very same people who didn't ask for nuclear war, and couldn't afford the Skousen approach of bunkering down with all of your cash. It's, simply, blatantly psychopathic to avoid even trying to reduce the world's nuclear stockpiles in the name of "safety". Most of the threats we currently face (and even R. Paul is on my side on this - it's not a purely leftist position, at all) are small-scale and not something we can secure against with a cold war arsenal. One of the main impediments to nuclear disarmament is the United States. The main reason U.N. sanctions and treaties are inefficient is because we have refused to comply, even when we see other nations complying (I hate it when people tell me to read something they assume I haven't read because I disagree with it, but it's different in the case of the actual historical record - read any book on the history of the US's compliance with the ABM treaty; we were the ones who have tried to get out of it since the 90s, not the Russians). And it's because of the same bullshit Rambo mentality that plagues the right, and makes them oblivious to real facts: we get to have our (neoliberal) toys, and we don't care if we have to annihilate the fucking species to keep 'em.

But let's get to the real point - you and freemarkets assume a lot about your inherent maturity. You probably think you're taking the "practical" position, which you somehow associate with being an adult. We're all supposedly children, simply for disagreeing with you. There's more than enough evidence to support our positions, and when we offer it, you ignore us and retrench by repeating the same tired mantras, generated from nowhere. It's not "practical" and it's certainly not "adult" never to change your opinions in the face of any facts - it's what kids do.

You are wise. It is truly unfortunate that people have been manipulated is such a way. They have been fooled into believing that "God" is some mystical & magical creation and perform mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they are somehow living in accordance with the "way" of the chosen.

It is quite insane.

Rather than building this "heaven" on earth, which by the way, would be quite easy to do once we can relieve ourselves of corrupt leadership and agree to finally become a civilized people, they instead put it off as something we can only get in the "afterlife" -- how convenient for those who wish to maintain power over us.

Seriously, what is it they are even expecting in heaven? That they will meet the rest of the "good" humans and experience total and complete bliss forever and ever? Wouldn't that mean we no longer have free will or emotions? It's almost like being on a constant high, no?

I can't wrap my head around the fact that humans are so gullible. I mean really? They center their attention on this guy "Jesus" who was basically an activist that recognized how the political and economic system was oppressing people and tried to help them.

Now that there are essentially thousands of "Jesus" they get ridiculed and called socialist?? WTF what's wrong with socialism again?? isn't that the creation of a government by the people for the people? Under socialism maybe we can all be guaranteed a 40 hour work week in exchange for basic needs for our family?? We aren't guaranteed that under our current capitalist system, which one would "god" choose.

Yeah, I should have qualified. I definitely don't think all American Christians are so enthusiastic about Armageddon. But there is a huge contingent of them that is; one of the Times respondents said first on the list of things Evangelicals should support is increasing our nuclear arsenal. That said, his view certainly doesn't represent all evangelicals, and many of them are very supportive of us.

no monetary system, aww poo, you can't be better than the Mexicans down the block no more, shucks... it's ok, you already can't be better than the chinese or indians that are talking all the high paying high skilled jobs from your "American" capitalist companies that are fattening their pockets with just a little bit cheaper labor from the evil immigrants across the ocean...

yeah, see how a system that does not use money will solve everything... probably not, you have proven yourself to be rather dense or completely evil. it's ok, we don't need you, no one does. lol

you realize that now Americans have finally become the victims of their oppressive capitalist system and they are completely confused...

"American" companies choosing to do business overseas and hire more qualified and intelligent workforces for less (outside of America) hahahahhaha - the irony... they aren't coming back, they abandon you and now find new tricks to squander your tax dollars, great country, truly blessed, lol

If you think you can build "heaven on earth",you are far too idealistic my friend. I am not defending the status quo, Things do need to be changed. Total equality is an ideal. We can work toward it, but I would stop short of promising or expecting "heaven".

We plan to work on building a true global democracy and bringing about world peace and you are against us.

You are well aware that the current system of rule brought us to where we are, perhaps you are not aware of the history of civilizations and so you are ignorant to the fact the world unification is inevitable and that world peace can be achieved.

To call someone evil is an attempt to dehumanize them. Once a person or group has been dehumanized then all manner of vile treatment becomes possible. By refusing to see those who disagree with you with empathy you debase yourself and your cause.

jesus was just a dude trying to help people out of poverty and oppression. though the situation is the same today the circumstances are different. We don't need to know or do what jesus did, we have to work according to the times.

For the first time in human existence we can connect across the globe as people, free from corruption and propaganda. We will absolutely build a true world democracy and bring about world peace and heaven on earth. To stand against us is to reveal your evil.

We are not buying anything other that what we need to survive. Capitalism needs to oppress the many so that the few can have access to a bunch of garbage they don't need. Technology itself will destroy capitalism as it has already started doing. We will help it end sooner.

We are going to build heaven on earth and we have faith in ourselves and one another, we don't need any make believe gods or corrupt government or officials to help us, we can do this ourselves.

Wow, most Amerian can't go 1 month without working? People work for money, it pays the bills. How do you pay your bills or do you expect someone else to that ?
Capitalism is great. The constitution guarantees equal opportunity NOT equal outcome. What you do with your life is up to you.
America is a success story because of our Constitution and capitalism, NOT in spite of them.

no America is a success story for Americans who used their military might to impoverish and oppress other weaker nations and enslave their people in cheap labor so that we could have access to a bunch of junk we don't need.

America would be nothing without slavery and oppression, that is what capitalism is about and Americans are fools to call themselves Christians, they care only for themselves.

The current system failed and people are waking up to the evil that they have supported.

We are not going to stop until there is global revolution, you should join us now otherwise you'd have a pretty hard time explaining why you were against true democracy, world peace and basically building heaven on earth, especially if you are a right wing Christian fanatic.

Oh, get over yourself miniMarx. Try to conceive what it would look like if the US actually exercised their military might to "oppress" other nations. There would be a huge transatlantic pipeline to the middle east sucking up all their oil, and there would be large smoldering ruins anywhere that resisted us. Quit being such a drama queen.

we are going to build heaven on earth -- to stand against us is to reveal your evil.

Do you know who wrote the last energy bill, or who wrote the code of health in the US? it was big oil companies and biotech/pharma. what does that tell you about your precious little government?

You can try and support whatever it is you think you live in but it won't be around much longer and I guess you don't want to work toward world peace with us, you must fear losing your jewelry, or perhaps you currently oppress others yourself and don't want to lose that privilege... in either case to stand firmly against world peace, unity, freedom and equality is to reveal your evil

To say you want to bring down a great country is to reveal your evil. To do nothing but call people evil is to reveal your evil. I mean, learn a new line. Stop copying and pasting from whatever propaganda site you visit.

it's ok, we're boycotting capitalism out of existence and all plan to work, but instead of picking a dum dum career that involves selling crap to one another or conning people out of their livelihood we will be able to pick and choose what we want to do and actually enjoy going to "work" and contributing to making our world better, not capitalizing the less fortunate, like you want to do. - you are evil but fooled yourself into thinking otherwise.

like we said before, we are doing this and there is nothing any evil doer such as yourself can do about it.

Thanks, but not true if some on Wall Street and elsewhere collectively help create a system which results in making the "their stuff" either already gone or of minimal resale value. (Oh, wait... Maybe that already happened?) The success of robbers is dependent on the economic works in place as well. The course of good and evil are not determined by which jersey or hat you wear, but rather by the many idly allowing new scams to thrive by passing no law with which to thwart them. Redistribution of wealth to the top is the kind of social engineering which permits the few to shout down the masses, making a mockery of liberty for "all" and democracy. Allowing such slight of hand schemes not to be legally "stealing" continues unless we act to make it so. Someone must politely yet firmly speak up about such injustices, or what's a First Amendment for?

I speak up for ending corruption. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. It is we who mandate our New Guard. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as protestors / reps of the public. The public needs to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.

Because I've seen that old movie, the Wizard of Oz, and the line "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" doesn't affect me all that much. Or, as Deep Throat would say in real life, "Follow the money." The guys who drove the economy into the ditch were the people writing billions in CDO's, which of course are not really insurance to rely on in case things went south, and therefore did not protect anything. The real purpose apparently was to collect payments for something that ultimately had no value to the payers. Those people doing stupid things with money are the ones I want handcuffed so they don't do it again, so I'm standing outside pointing out the perp to anyone with eyes. Congress passes law, not the White House.

Thanks, because that's my whole point: to stop a bad torrent of events, you should go upstream to the source of the problem. If you want to dam the Mississippi, your best shot is to do that up in Minnesota, before it can get too far from Lake Itaska and pick up momentum. We should stop bad laws in Congress. Stop destructive uses of money at their source.

Definitely. There are corrupt assholes in the ranks of our police forces, yes; that's true of any profession, it's just a part of life. But there are just as many who are just doing what they can to feed their families as well. If even a few of them stand with us, it'll be a major point. Half the world is watching.

Hold up little signs toward the policemen saying:
"No police brutality, please !"
"I am non-violent, how about you ?"
"We're in this together, so keep cool."
"This is an emergency, please help us."
"We want higher pay for public servants."

Or something in a similar vein. But, keep in mind the fact that the police confronting you is trained not to listen, but to obey orders. Their superiors are certainly painting us as threats. Also some of the police may be quite eager to finally participate in their own little "War on Terror" and let off some steam.

in my opinion the best way to stop police brutality and corruption is to pass laws to end police unions. You wont believe what they are able to do to keep cops who are known bad guys employed. Ask the Fraternal Order of Police and the police unions how they feel about the war on drugs....they will tell you it should be a no go not for morality sake...but because cops will lose jobs! Not exactly liberty lovers.

The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as reps of the public. They need to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.

I have no desire for socialism. I like our democracy. It is not perfect, it is in constant flux, true. However, this is the greatest nation on Earth. The quicker we get rid of Obama, who has spent more money and ran up more debt in the last 3 years, than all 8 of GW Bush. I didn't care for his spending either, but at least I felt like he really cared about America. I get the feeling Obama is trying to wreck this country. On purpose!

Wow all cops, you guys are amazing, no wonder you are so wise and all knowing, I'm so jealous I really wish I knew what all people were thinking all the time. Then I could just go around making decisions for everyone because since i can read everyone's mind I know whats best for them. And then when i go around making large general statements about people based on what I personal now about them because I have taken the pain staking time of reading their minds,please don't mistake this for passing judgement on people I have never even talk to in my life.
I know it looks very similar to prejudging people based on key elements about them that make them unique and easy to group them into a simple stereotype that everyone will easily recognize and instantly despise which will make our job easier to accomplish. But remeber we are special and we know what everyone is thinking cause we are revolutionaries.

Wake up! You have more similarities then differences to the people you so claim you against.

yeah, well they will eventually have to get it. We are changing the government in America and freeing it from corruption. If they stand against us they are against world peace and freedom. They don't need to call in sick, simply assemble with the protesters instead of against them.

With the magnitude of corruption and the need for change being so immediate (and eminent) it is confusing to me how they would dare fight us?

brain damage, fear??? what the ....?

Honestly, once we have changed the government we should put all those who stood against the movement on trial for abuse of office and failure to protect basic human rights.

And seriously, the protesters in Oakland should march over to the police headquarters and demand that ALL of the officers resign. Maybe get to them before they put on their uniforms (when they are people and not evil villans) The cops get paid from public money, so the public should decide whether they stay or go.

Calm down, this is not about the police! I think your red-hot rhetoric is nonproductive, especially "once we have changed the government we should put those who stood against the movement on trial....". Getting a little ahead of yourself wouldn't you say? "March" to a police station and demand all the police resign? This movement isn't about the police, don't be distracted

it should be about the police as much as anything. They have been compliant as our country has become a police state and as they ignore their constitutional duty to only enforce laws that obey the constitution. They are the front line as they help turn us into the highest prison population in the world....most of this violence cause is rooted in the war on drugs. The symptoms they try to treat fail time and again and now its time to go back to the default position; liberty and freedom....even to do bad things to your own body. A police officer needs to be less ignorant and more well read...i have talked to so many who couldnt even name any real part of the bill of rights...so they enforce blindly not knowing their ignorance is part of the problem. I think Oath Keepers need to help with the Occupy movement...true cops and soldiers who know that the Bill of Rights applies to all americans, regardless of color or ethnicity.

Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible.[1] Totalitarian regimes stay in political power through an all-encompassing propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech, mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror.

My ungr8ful brother,
Rufus is correctomundo. Please peruse my post from a few days ago. :)

OK. My turn. I am the 99%. While I live here, was born and raised here, I AM NOT CANADIAN. I cannot be, because I am not in support of the crookedness that Canada fosters and perpetuates.

I'm a 42 year old, 4th year Honours student of Sociology/Criminology with plans of snagging an Education degree en route towards a Masters and PHD in Sociology/Criminology.

The System, does not work. It hasn't worked for decades. The system wants to stay the same, because in failing, it succeeds. ....by increasing the bottom line.

If Crime rises...then that's a failure of our attempt to reduce crime. However, it equates to success for our Governments, because they expand the budget, hire more corrections, policing, judges, lawyers, victims services people, probation officers, counsellors, make everything illegal to widen the net to fill the new prisons! Then they instill fear in everyone by highly publicizing the rare, severe crimes. Most of our little old ladies get scared, and vote for the dude with the biggest crime bill on the platform.

My mom taught school here in Saskatchewan for 35 years. My dad died in 1984. I'm a high caliber athlete and a bodybuilder. I've tried over 50 different jobs from 1987-1997 and got nowhere. I've held 3 jobs since at approximately 5 years each. I'm a highly driven humanitarian, mature, responsible, parent, acquaintance, friend, student, person. I'm the good guy. A monstrous, globally recognizable corporation saw fit to fabricate a conspiracy and terminate me a month before Christmas last year. I'm educated, i'm an elite producer whether in sales or labour. I may win the arbitration, but the corporation will continue to seek out potential firings.

For those of you who have never had to call on the system ( ie. police, family court, criminal court, social services, medical care, educational system, government insurance), I think you'd be appalled at how it really operates.

From police coercion to create crime, and impede decent people...to, pyramid scheming insurance agencies (they don't actually cover you if you're hurt in a motor vehicle accident-my mom paid herself out of her own savings because she, volunteered to be rear ended on the freeway by a 16 year old driver's 3rd accident in her first year of driving.

My mom, who served Canada as a teacher for 35 years, is permanently disabled, yet has been tortured by the rehab facility (that the crown insurance company uses exclusively) denied any insurance coverage, forced to deplete her own savings to compensate. They pit their doctors against public doctors and simply deny reality to keep the money. Try to argue it upwards and you are squashed because they make their own rules.

Levels of Bureaucracy need to GO.

I've had to make several appearances in family court over 8 years for lawyers and judges to take my family's money, and render idiotic decisions that are designed to hinder situations, and perpetuate the problem....so that they can bill us again! JUST TO BE MY SON'S FATHER
I'm a man. I can make my own decisions about what's best for my child.
How come my Fellow Man, the lawyer, the judge, the counsellor, the social service worker, the nurse, the doctor, the teacher..... .....ALL FEEL THE NEED TO FUCK US OVER...EVERY TIME WE COME TO THEIR COUNTER WITH OUR DOUGH OUT?? WHY!!!??

Why do chiropractors twist you into pain...and schedule you for '3 more appointments'?....why do rotten counsellors and psychologists and doctors and psychiatrists and all such leeches, keep scheduling more appointments? Are they incapable of solving the professional issues they face?...or do they simply choose not to help?

FYI, our chiropractic visits were mandated in the last 2 years and increased from $17 per visit to $35 per visit overnight. No wonder the chiropractor wants to injure us....more visits=more dough for him/her/
Here in Saskatchewan, these professions are protected by peer organizations that will cover their asses. Further, these professions, are contracted by our local government....these professions want to bill our government as much as possible...but if they solve your individual problem for you, they won't be able to bill the government for your visit....next week....and the week after.....

We are advanced and educated human beings. We are thinkers. We see how the 1% operates.

Greed is the problem. Bureacracy is the problem. Individual people who keep mistreating their fellow citizens by stealing their money are the problem.

The 1% like Greed. They like Bureaucratic stagnation. They like hiring dummies who can't or won't think for themselves, or for their fellow human. I could go on....but we need MORE ACTION!!!

OWS is right. We need a different system. We need to be more than pawns of the 1%. We are creative. We are feeling. We are not possessions. We are not things.

I sorry you feel like a pawn, But I don't. Was there A time in my life that I did. Hell yes, and i was a very angry young man(I'm 40 now) but then I realize that a large chunk of my problems were based on my bad mistakes , my lack of judgement, at that in reality a small % of my problems were due to the world around me. I have meet people that have been in worse situation then mine and achieved way more then I ever though possible. And I have met people that had everything handed to them and they did not accomplish anything.

Is there any way that you can see where I am coming from. Obviously there are problems that need to be fixed. But can you see how some people find it hard to just jump in and say all our problems are based on other people. For some people like me it goes against their very nature as independent self efficient member of society to be blaming all their problems on someone else.

Whatiswrongwithyou?
Nothing against you my man. Not sure if you have a point there.
The continent I live on, exhibits massloads of people, ripping each other off on every resale possible...make your $34000, make your $150000...at the end of the day...profit seekers want every dollar you earn....if you can't see that on the path you've walked.....shrug....

If at any point in your life you made more than 34 grand, you were the one percent of the world. You opressed the peoples in all the different countries. See how that feels, being wrongly accused of something because of the amount of money you worked hard to make? It not fun, is it?

well, i urge you ungr8ful....to enroll in sociology...read about colonialist settlement, capitalism, industrialization, crime, social control, bureaucracy...after you are done all the reading....look at the world around you...reflect on your experiences....better yet, try to imagine the experiences of others.....who, have been infringed by the ever widening net cast upon our freedoms...and our finances...companies have milked my talent for their profits....not for my well being....next.
OCCUPY!

Are you retarded or something? Marijuana charges result in a some odd 50% of our prison population? So me smoking my marijuana in my back yard is killing all of the kittens in the world? Marijuana a plant that does 1000x more good than bad. A plant that is illegal due to greed and profits and maintained its illegal state because of the same reasons even when people realized it was good. A plant that is arguably the most useful plant in the WORLD!?! I don't see a victim in me smoking pot. And don't come up with some bullshit story about drug running and all the people killed by moving weed. Its not coke buddy its grown everywhere -__- even in my closet. If marijuana being illegal is not a sign of our government's legal system being corrupted to the core then idk what is. have a nice day

Please do not use retarded as a swear word. I have people in my family who have learning disabilities, and such awful prejudice has managed to hurt their confidence and self esteem. We claim to be part of the SOLUTION, not the problem.

WOW I do in fact feel for you, but it was in no mean intentionally used to offend an actual "retarded" person. It may be a bit immature and rash to quickly be offended by what I read and respond in the instinctual way I did, but in the modern world language has evolved and words mean more than their definition.

Thanks very much for your reply. I felt it was necessary to speak up (as I do all the time in conversations). I've realized that "retarded" is the one swear word that even the most educated people feel completely at liberty to use. Even people who'd never use racist, sexist epithets continually use "retarded" and "retard," which only shows the extent of the prejudice (and lack of a movement, for understandable reasons). Remember that remark by Obama that bowling (or some other sport, I forget which) for him was like being in the Special Olympics, because he wasn't any good at it. These prejudices (and those against people with "invisible," mental illnesses) are deeply entrenched. So I do appreciate your understanding and kind reply.

again, perhaps we have a different understanding of crime, victim, greed,exploitation? from my perspective the drug message,whether legal / illegal is the same: take this and pain will go away, and they work short term. long term - destruction. again, i say perhaps we have a different understanding.

We have lots of prisons because we have a dysfunctional welfare state that enslaves minorities in liberal gulags. We encourage them to have multiple generations of fatherless children (the ones that they don't abort), and then we put those children in prison.

smoking weed, doing drugs on your own property, parking on a tuesday between the hours of 11 and 2 on certain streets, check out our gigantic federal law registry and then go check out your state registry.......No victim= no crime. Carrying a gun in your car unconcealed is a no victim crime. Talking back to an officer is a victimless crime. Hurting other peoples feelings is a victimless crime....i can go on and on and on.

enjoy?? perhaps, i have mis-spoke and/or do not know how to communicate here. ( you want to punk me? then say out loud: RufusJFiisk52, or do not ever walk in the same yard with me) i must, admit my communication skills, most deplorable, as they are; you knowing so much about jail / prison; if you are not ganged up now, you will find your reality.

what makes you think i have done any action illegal? because i admit having gone in and out of prison? well i have, on a daily basis, and no, before you jump to conclusions i was not a us-against them, person. there is much more to the prison-world-mentality, than that, but it is like the world we live in, the same- us-against-them, just more intence.

On the police. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. It is we who mandate our New Guard. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as protestors / reps of the public. The public needs to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.

It is confusing to them how we would dare fight them, brain damage? No it is known as conditioning. You can join the army and when they are finished doing a # on you off you go to murder innocent sheep herders you call towel heads.
We cannot change those entrenched in power nor indict anyone. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as reps of the public. They need to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations. They stay with Jason overseeing them.

Our military does not kill "innocent sheep herders." we kill armed terrorists who do their best to blow themselves up to kill innocents. They kill many more civilians than we do. The kill more MUSLIMS than we do. Explain that to me, without the use of cult logic that you have to be insane to understand.

Explain to you how terrorists kill more civilians and muslems than our military? And I have to do this without cult logic? What is wrong with you? I'm talking about providing a new guard for our future security that has no detractors. I can explain this with or without the use of cult logic.

awesome, we are working toward a true democracy, 1 person, 1 voice, 1 vote. guaranteed protection from a capitalist market system and the ability for every person to guaranteed fair work in exchange for the basic necessities of life.

Anyone would have a hard time explaining why some people should have access to basic human rights and freedoms while others do not..

We are a goddamned DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC!!!!! True democracy works until the citizens figure out that they can vote themselves money. That's what the system of checks and balances is for. I don't even know why you brought human rights into this. Every American has equal opportunity and basic human rights. Good luck convincing china I guess. It makes me laugh at how uneducated some people in the world are.

the difference is to found in the public/private dialectic-dialogue: education, health-care, national defence (both foreign/domestic), the defintions of the great/homeless; 'equal opportunity - basic human rights'

ok, how about we start here and then you can go educate yourself on our website.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person - no one has the right to any of those.

life is dependent on access to life sustaining resources. No one can get any food from the earth without giving up number 2, liberty - liberty and right to life do not exist under our current system as is very obvious not all people can care for themselves equally or even sufficiently, even if they were willing to work for it, no one is guaranteed life or liberty, this leads to number 3, because of their inability to acquire numbers 1 or 2 they are left vulnerable and open for exploitation. Exploitation is what capitalism needs in order to function, Americans once prospered under capitalism because they were tricked into oppressing other nations into cheap labor to make stuff more accessible for themselves. This practice still goes on today.

So I assume that you want a perfect socialist government, or no government at all. I hope you see that these things simply do not work. I'm not going to learn anything from an opinion based, heavily biased, one sided website, so let's just end it there.

"True democracy works until the citizens figure out they can vote themselves money." Can you please explain what you mean there?

"Every American has equal opportunity and basic human rights." The first part is simply nonsense. You're saying that a child born to poor people in a poor community has the same opportunities as a child born to rich people in a rich community? I doubt they even receive the same treatment from law enforcement, which calls the second part of the quotation into question.

Wake up and realize that there are real problems in America. Blindly believing that all is as good as it can be is not going to fix them.

I'm not saying that there aren't problems in the world. Reforms are needed, but socialism isn't the answer. Most reform suggestions I've seen reek of socialism, which I don't agree with. Also with the first point, true democracy means mob rule. You need some form of government. That's where the word republic comes into the name.

Greece has a long history of tax evasion, especially by the rich. The reason they have such problems is that tax was not collected as "forecast". Although, it's highly unlikely they didn't know they wouldn't actually collect that much, it looked good enough on paper for them to get loans they now cannot repay. The Greek problem was caused by the politicians, not the people voting for them.

everyone can explain why some have freedom and others are oppressed. Some people want to be in control of others so they know through contrast of what power they have. You lay prostrate before the King so you cannot attack him. You live in luxury on the backs of the poor.

I'm probably on the outside of opinions on this one, but being a small business owner, without "corporate personhood" I would not want to risk being in business where I could be held responsible and/or sued into poverty for something that might happen that is not my fault. I'm not with others on this.

a constitution that would allow this to happen to us is flawed and should be ignored. we need a new world constitution, anything less is uncivilized and it is inevitable, how long we ignore our problems is up to us.

For some darn reason, my reply ended up on the top of this page, so here it is again....

The Constitution didn't allow it to happen, people ignoring it did. A government that has become corrupt with corporatism needs to have it's politicians replaced, and their opportunities to enrich themselves removed. Term limits would be a start.

The Constitution is a great work of genius, the problem is, people have a lot of trouble following rules.... even simple ones, like "don't make any more rules".

Also, a "world constitution" is a fantasy of the highest order. If you think they have problems with the Eurozone now, you ain't seen nothing.... but it will never happen.

blocade I appreciate your passion, but I don't think you know whats best for all of us. I also don't like how your claiming I'm oppressed, yet at the same time you want to get rid of capitalism without me having any say in the matter.
How do you justify this, it's almost like you think you know what's better for me than I do. Is that how you feel. I would like to know what your qualifications are to make these kind of decisions.

And it seems that your on the side of the people who want to take that away based on their personal experiences with free trade.
How does that make you good guys, but the other people who force their agenda's on us are bad. It a legit question and I think we deserve a legit answer.How are you different then those other people that claim they now whats best?
I would also like some proof that I can actually see that getting rid of capitalism will really fix MY problems. Show me some proof that this heaven on earth with out forcing your agenda on me would work. I'm very curious how you plan on handling the people that disagree with your heaven on earth plan.

In fact I want to see some charts of graphs, all I hear is talk, but no actual numbers. Maybe you could put some of those on your site.Some existing proof that this system could hold some ground would be nice.

Are you showing these charts and graphs and proof that getting rid of capitalism actually will work on site. Maybe you guys should draw a giant diagram that covers the street or something so we can all see it. I'm sure you guys could pull something like that off an actual road map that shows how we could go from our society as it is today into this heaven on earth(real proof not just speculation and theories.

Sorry but it would be irresponsible of me to just buy your story because it sounds nice. It is quit a leap, so that could be part of the reason we have trouble understanding were you come from. I think most of us understand that something needs to be changed, but your change is quit extreme and almost impossible(and possibly unwanted)
Which brings up another question.How would you overcome these things without forcing people to do something that they may not agree with, obviously some people do not agree with you. I hope we can at least agree on that.

um... really? ok, you go on supporting an oppressive system, pretty sure you won't have much to work with soon. we'll be building a newer and more perfect system. You might want to try explaining why you are against world peace and essentially building heaven on earth.. though it won't have much of an effect on what we have already started. you are just one person. we are the world.

Blocade, I'm just curious how are old you, I would like to hear your personal story about how you have been oppressed by this system. Not anyone else's, but your personal story about how your so oppressed by USA. Now I want you to tell me where in this world is there any place on this planet that comes close to resembling this heaven on earth you keep referring to. I would like to check out their financial statements and see how there doing with no capital.

that's fine, we are going to build an advanced civilization where there is no crime, hate, corruption or ignorance. You can try and live in the same government where policy is written by corporations and handed to congressmen and women with fat checks and promises of future employment but it simply won't exist as we are going to do away with them.

You can continue to fool yourself into believing that you are in "god's" favor as you fight to protect your guns, support bombing other countries so that the top 1% can claim ownership to their resources and support a failed capitalistic system that must oppress the many in order to produce cheap goods for the few.

You can support it all you want, though it won't exist much longer. We are boycotting capitalism and creating a new world government. We are building heaven on earth, stand against us and you would have revealed your evil.

Dude you are spewing more crap and garbage then anyone else on here. I don't think you would even now how to build a fence around your house let alone a whole society.
And all you do is back it up with this heaven and earth plan that is nothing but 4 paragraphs on a web site. It does not even cover some of those most basic things, like foreign policy or people who are not strong enough to work there fair share.
I know that our current system sucks, but your plan has absolutely no proof of any kind that it would even work or that you could get anyone other then your friends to play along.
So please stop answering people with reasonable questions that pertain to their REAL, life with your empty answers that are solely based on a theory(which means it's not a real (it currently does not exists) so you can't refer to like it is real thing that has premise in a real live grown up argument).

there is no better plan and ours will work, it is working. we are boycotting capitalism and freeing people from ignorance.

we will not be buying any products to celebrate christmas this year, instead we will continue to spread our message of peace and unity.

The reason many Americans respond with fear and anger the way you have is because most Americans don't know anyone in any other part of the world. they simply go by the opinions that they were given through media and propaganda.

We are in many countries and we all want the same thing. we will inherit the earth, you simply will not be able to buy enough to maintain your primitive system of rule

What ever that means???????
I think I am officially done with this. Your wrong I'm not scared in fact the last few years have been really good to me, and my future looks even better.Most of the things that have haunted my life I have found ways to fix and overcome. I just find it strange in the 90's when I was at the worst time in my life everyone was happy cause there houses were worth millions (surplus anyone). And now I'm actually doing good, my hard work is paying off and reaching financial independence without hurting anyone else, and now your telling me you want to take it all away cause you can't make it in our society.

Ok I guess I am scared that in pursuit of your dream your more then happy to squish mine. So let me just point out that maybe I'm protecting my dream from yours(do I still have that right in your heaven and earth to be as prosperous as I can or will i be limited by what heaven on earth will decide). So how do we decide whose dreams are more important? Peoples dream that resemble mine our yours?
I would also like to point out that you can go start your heaven and earth place somewhere else, and maybe after it survives ten years or something then maybe we can talk.

No,I'm asking for evidence to prove that if by some chance your plan was accepted that it
1 could be executed without forcing people like me who don't agree with you, not because I'm evil or ignorant I just don't agree (keep it simple)
2 it would actually work
3 new boss is just like the old boss (this has happened you know)
4 protect us from people seek to hurt us (this also happens even when you have good intentions).
5 how do you plan on taking care of people who don't follow your rules or disagree with you.

Once again I'm asking for real answers, not references to some web site that has no merit of any kind. You are really asking a lot of people and I think we deserve some real answers from this heave on earth thingy.

evidence of something which has not yet ever existed? What you are asking for is solid faith. question whether faith alone can drive anything and you ask a silly question. our economy is based on nothing but faith.

we have broken that faith and we no longer believe in the current system, its leadership or relevance. We renounce all claim by any individuals to any of the earth's resources. We know the only reason they will resist us is if they have something to gain.

By refusing to participate in our current system it will cease to exist. we will continue to utilize the resources available through the system but we will not give back and it will collapse, leaving only us and the earth.

So you think all my questions are silly.
And I'm supposed to put my faith in you.
Also I am currently participating in this system.
I pay taxes,I give to charity, I vote, I'm here debating with you (and many other on your forum, were I know everyone disagrees with me yet here I am willing to hear out your idea).
I just want some clarification since you seem to think I should have no say in the matter(I know another question, is that how you feel, that I should not have a choice due to my poor ignorance).
But you refuse to answer any of my question because YOU think I'M silly.
Is that going to be your response any time anyone questions your new plan.

Now I have been answering your questions, it's your turn to answer some. How are you participating in this current system, what have you done to prove I should listen to you.

sigh the problem with true democracy is that there are no limits. People will eventually figure out that they can vote themselves bigger salaries. That is what government is for. That's is why America is a democratic republic, not a democracy.

Oh god do i have to be a gun toting conservative christian to know crazy when i see it. I guess i dont want peace and happiness for everyone just because i do not want idiots like you having any say in the way the country works. Scream peace and love all you want. There will always be people like me who see through it from day one.

If you are planning a revolution don't expect the cops to be on your side. Revolutions are violent periods of time full of death, anarchy and destruction. The cops generally believe in order and in safeguarding society from anarchy and lawlessness. That is how they motivate themselves to work shitty hours and deal with people that irrationally hate them.

the cops just want to put in their hours and get a steady paycheck. They are paid with our tax dollars. our current capitalistic system is doomed to failure, we are preparing for a peaceful transition to an advanced civilization.

We are going to build heaven on earth and to stand against us is to expose your evil

It is not okay to be so absolute. Your heaven is probably hell for people like me. You do not understand that "heaven on earth" cannot exist. Humans cannot live in harmony with each other like you think. You are offering two final outcomes. Anarchy or total government control. Neither of things ever work. Changing human nature is a feat accomplished only by gods. The first time nature was changed was when civilization was created. It has not been changed since. Good luck in your quest for a perfect society of perfect humans.

Your heaven will be somebody else's hell. Everyone in the past who thought they would build heaven has ended up killing tens of thousands and undermining the societies they pretended to want to advance.

If you come to my house to build your heaven expect a sharply unpleasant welcome.

The cops across the country need to take a look at the Wisconsin police. Their union stood by the teachers,firemen and stateworkers union.If the brotherhood of police officers aren't careful they will be just like many of the police officers in Camden NJ....LAIDOFF!

They will still have them, silly. This is just about us taking back the government. If they are revoked for the wrong reasons we will reinstate them when the democracy has been restored in this country.

we are building a new world government, they won't have their current jobs or pensions in our new system. Instead they will go out each day to help the public in exchange for the same basic freedoms and access to resources as the rest of humanity, they won't have any crime to fight because most crimes will disappear under a system where we are all equal.... why would anyone WANT to have to deal with crime created by a corrupt capitalist system? Is that the kind of job you would want?

It should be stationed somewhere warm. Could be Texas, Arizona, Nevada like Les Vegas... alot of tourist around the world visit there, or whatever. Make the crowd of Woodstock look like a hamlet. Find where accommodation, liking camp sites, cost of living logistics, etc.. It doesn't matter where it takes place, it's the spirit. Maybe someone has private land, like a rancher. Most 1% of people are no different than the 99%, it's the Elite that's the issue. Think about it. Spring Time Relocate to Washington, but much can be accomplished till then.

austin texas is the best place. It is a cultural center with libs, dems, republicans, conservatives, libertarians all rolled into one. A political center in the heart of Texas that is youthful and believes in freedom.

"When those who are bound together by pacifist ideals hold a meeting they are always consorting with their own kind only. They are like sheep huddled together while the wolves wait outside. I think pacifist speakers have this difficulty: they usually reach their own crowd, who are pacifists already. The sheep's voice does not get beyond this circle and therefore is ineffective. . . . Real pacifists, those who are not up in the clouds but who think and count realities, must fearlessly try to do things of practical value to the cause and not merely speak about pacifism. Deeds are needed. Mere words do not get pacifists anywhere."-- Albert Einstein, Two Percent Speech, New York, 1930

Do not do this !
This strike is the first serious blow to 1% from OWS, and if succeeds, similar protests will spread nationwide. This understands everybody. So be prepared that the "government" (the 1%) response will be especially harsh and even brutal. You are not yet prepared for such sort of strike, You do not have technical means to counteract antiriot police (You even don't have personal protection like gas masks and helmets). Psychologically, approximately 90% of your folks are law-abiding citizens, they are not morally ready to counteract to police.
Some users here recommend to demoralize police and make them join the strike--in general it is a good, "classical" advice, but not in your case: it requires a serious preparation and I doubt that the folks in OWS have necessary skills to persuade the policemen and possess necessary agitation materials.

So it is just better to cancel this strike and use legal means for your demands--e.g. organize a socialist party and try to win elecions.

that will only hurt the growing middle class in china who produces those products. They are slowly creeping out of poverty because of American plants over there. As they gradually turn more capitalistic, the pvoerty levels in china have been sinking....its no coincidence folks. peoplelike to say that their are slavery and sweatshop making those products, but that is furthest from the truth. Ask them if they are better off now then they were twenty years ago. Though as the middle class in china grows they will be demanding better wages and working conditions...not much of a bad thing, only natural.

That's if they are allowed to. China is much more willing to gun down people who demand things (see Tienamen Square where college students were shot down in the streets -- just YouTube it for footage).

Okay here it is.... The Super Committee is going to come up with a plan shortly. Now, lets say there are 100 items on the Super Committee's list. As each item on the list is agreed to unanimously by 100% of the democrats and republicans, that one item goes into the WE Party Committee (www.weparty.info). The WE Party only looks at what we do have in common and has nothing to do with what WE don't have in common.

This WE Party Committee is about moving forward with 100% collective consciousness on what we do have in commom and collectively works on ways we can move forward together. The WE Party Mentor is an online volunteer (www.wepartymentor.info) that helps and inspires others online in a variety of ways. The WE Party Mentors (www.wepartymentors.info) often have WE PARTIES (www.weparties.info) to help and inspire others.

In regard to Occupy Wall Street, the WE Party can help here too! Using the same Pass It Forward Philosophy (www.pifphilosophy.info), we can work item for item and one by one create WE Party Committee's to help us move forward.

I support the overall message of the OWS Movement, but a "general strike" is not the solution to the problems of our country. This kind of direct action will never lead to any kind of change in the system - it will never be able to gain enough support. In order for a strike to be effective, it must target a specific institution. Furthermore, inviting "all students to walk out of school" is counterproductive. Our youth needs to be educated, and society can not be reformed for the better unless we promote education and an understanding of history.

Recalls to mind the late 1960s. The red poster reminds me of an ill-fated academic attempt to resurrect the ILL/Wobblies. The movement truly lacks focus. With demands as broad as 'revolution' it will fail and peter out. Without specific focus and program it will be seen in retrospect as a giant happening. We are not Israel, we are not the Arab world. And after every Arabic spring revolution, Islamists have reared their theocratic heads.

Ok, now you've lost my support! I had thought the the communist manifestos and messages was the message spread NOT by you, but by some left wing radicals who tacked on to your ideas. But hwen I saw this POSTER on your main webpage, I know I was wrong. It is a typical COMMUNIST poster, the same patterns, the same colours and aesthetics.
COMMUNISM from before its fall was one of the bigger terror-mongering systems in the history. The victims of communism make up of more people that the victims of all 20th century wars COMBINED. The rule of people was BULLSHIT, it was a rule of an ELITE who pretended to support the masses while it was taking advantage of them. In COMMUNISM tehre are no human rights, no free speech, nobody gives a damn about common people, unless we talk about propaganda materials. I lived in a communist country, I know what I am saying. You have never suffered in a communist country, so you know SHIT about the system. I thought it was bout positive changes in our world. Now I see I was wrong.

Ok, now you've lost my support! I had thought the the communist manifestos and messages was the message spread NOT by you, but by some left wing radicals who tacked on to your ideas. But hwen I saw this POSTER on your main webpage, I know I was wrong. It is a typical COMMUNIST poster, the same patterns, the same colours and aesthetics.
COMMUNISM from before its fall was one of the bigger terror-mongering systems in the history. The victims of communism make up of more people that the victims of all 20th century wars COMBINED. The rule of people was BULLSHIT, it was a rule of an ELITE who pretended to support the masses while it was taking advantage of them. In COMMUNISM tehre are no human rights, no free speech, nobody gives a damn about common people, unless we talk about propaganda materials. I lived in a communist country, I know what I am saying. You have never suffered in a communist country, so you know SHIT about the system. I thought it was bout positive changes in our world. Now I see I was wrong.

Do you not realize that you are the ones losing? This is exactly why you keep wanting things you can't get for yourselves. This harms you more than those in the upper class. Do you truly think they will submit to lost profits before those who work paycheck to paycheck just run out? Don't screw yourselves, you only make it worse for everyone else.
Oh, and you might lose something even more valuable, those jobs that the "1%" gives you.

Do you really want to shut down the 1%? Are you willing to pick up their slack? Are you willing to pay their taxes and do their work? Be VERY VERY careful what you wish for. If the 1% retired tomorrow, you would all be in a world of hurt! Can any of you actually tell me what part of this supposed movement is good? I am trying so hard to understand you guys. I'm all for protesting an immoral cause, but I don't understand any of your gripes, PLEASE help me see this thing through your eyes.

man how i wish i was a citizen of oakland right about now
the 1% dominating the world, making the decisions, controlling global funds and tax payer dollars, influencing the government, approaching the role of marionette.
This concept has bothered me for as long as i have been old enough to understand how the system works.
theres unlimited funds when countries need to go to war, or bail out executive companies, but when it comes down to domestic issues ( schools, jobs, unemployment rate, or simply keeping roofs over citizens heads) budgets are always tight.
POWER TO THE RESISTERS!
ABOLISH SUPERPOWER COMPANIES AND CORRUPT GOVERNMENT!
WE ARE THE MAJORITY
WE WILL WIN

Cool...You guys strike and us business owners will replace your lazy butts with somebody who wants to contribute to this nation...Or better yet, just send the work to another country where the workers are not nearly as whiny or lazy...OH WAIT...we are ALREADY DOING THAT!!!!

Hey, this is a call to all you 1%er's out there. Close your businesses here in America and let’s move them someplace else. Let’s find some workers willing to work. Let’s leave the 99% manby pamby weenies to themselves and see if they have a creative mind between them....

What will they do when we close down the Oil companies...guess they don't own cars, no big deal. How about all the big engineering firms and mega construction companies that design their infrastructure? Guess they can figure that one out for free too. Definitely should close down Wal-Mart....they might be a bit late in the season to start growing their own groceries, but what the heck. Macy's, Penny’s, Kohls, Target and all the other department stores are run by the one percent...no problem...these 99%ers can make their own clothes. Course then there are all the privately held electric and gas Co-ops throughout the country...wonder how many of these folks know how to rub two sticks together? (Might come in handy in New York...I understand the temperature is dropping there). Let’s not even mention the banks that finance all of this stuff for them....

Finally, lets close down Microsoft, Dell and Warner...OH WAIT... if we do that their internet, TV, and pretty much all other media coverage will die...

One thing I don't understand is this. Do you people expect all the corporations to come out and write you a nice little check, giving you the money you feel "entitled to"? Or do you expect humanity to change its ways so that socialism will actually work? Neither of these options seem very likely. Also, your proposals call for an all new constitution. Good luck with that.
"And this is how democracy ends, with thunderous applause."

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GROUP gets to control $7Billion a month , back in to the US ECONOMY.

It's interesting how a handful of Marxists have successfully diverted OWS from going after the financial international and turned this movement into nothing more than a pool of warm bodies for the use of big labor (a VERY well off sector of the population). Here's an email from one of the behind the scenes self appointed leaders/handlers of OWS. Love his paternalistic attitude:

Mark, I agree with you completely. In fact just last night I was
reading the section in Grieder's book on the Fed where he contrasts
the class base and resulting politics of 19th vs. 20th century
populists (progressive and reactionary respectively). (See bottom of
page 265 for his punchline on this.)
That's why I spoke of both left and right wing populists today.
The kids today at OWS who are proworker, antiracist, antisexist,
anti-imperialist, but who think the solution is ending the Fed, or
restoring Glass-Steagall, or breaking up the big banks, or moving our
money to credit unions -- isn't left populist a fair term for them?
And it's meant not in an elitist or dismissive way, but as a sign of
their lack of exposure to basic socialist ideas -- for which we all,
of course, share some responsibility.

Seekin' The Cause he was Dead / he never Live
The Book of Genesis According to St. Miguelito Before the beginning / God created Go
Black Woman With The Blond Wig On Black woman with the blond wig on / you're living an illusion.
La Bodega Sold Dreams dreamt i was a poet / & he was Dead
he never Lived
died
died
he died seekin' a Cause
seekin' the Cause
because
he said
he never saw the cause
but he heard
the cause
heard the cryin' of hungry ghetto children
heard the warnin' from Malcolm
heard the tractors pave new routes to new prisons
died seekin' the Cause
seekin' a Cause
he was dead on arrival
he never really Lived
uptown . . . downtown . . . crosstown
body was round all over town
seekin' the Cause
thinkin' the Cause was 75 dollars & gator shoes
thinkin' the Cause was sellin' the white lady to black
children
thinkin' the cause is to be found in gypsy rose or j. b.
or dealin' wacky weed
and singin' du-wops in the park after some chi-chiba
he died seekin' the Cause
died seekin' a Cause
and the Cause was dyin' seekin' him
and the Cause was dyin' seekin' him
and the Cause was dyin' seekin' him
he wanted a color t. v.
wanted a silk on silk suit
he wanted the Cause to come up like the mets & take the
world series
he wanted . . . he wanted . . . he wanted . . . he wanted
to want more wants
but
he never gave
he never gave
he never gave his love to children
he never gave his heart to old people
&
never did he ever give his soul to his people
he never gave his soul to his people
because he was busy seekin' a cause
busy
busy perfectin' his voice to harmonize the national anthem
with spiro t agnew
busy perfectin' his jive talk so that his flunkiness
wouldn't show
busy perfectin' his viva-la-policia speech
downtown . . . uptown . . . midtown . . . crosstown
his body was found all over town
seekin' a Cause
seekin' the Cause
found
in the potter fields of an o. d.
found
in the bowery with the d. d. t.'s
his legs were left in viet-nam
his arms were found in sing-sing
his scalp was on Nixon's belt
his blood painted the streets of the ghetto
his eyes were still lookin' for jesus to come down
on some cloud & make everything ok
when jesus died in attica
his brains plastered all around the frames of the pentagon
his voice still yellin' stars & stripes 4 ever
riddled with the police bullets his taxes bought
he died seekin' a Cause
seekin' the Cause
while the Cause was dyin' seekin' him
he died yesterday
he's dyin' today
he's dead tomorrow
died seekin' a Cause
died seekin' the Cause
& the Cause was in front of him
& the Cause was in his skin
& the Cause was in his speech
& the Cause was in his blood
but
he died seekin' the Cause
he died seekin' a Cause
he died
deaf
dumb
&
blind
he died
& never found his Cause
because
you see he never never
knew that he was the
Cause.
What did you think

hello there
i would like to highlight that it is becoming clearer and clearer that in order to initiate real change we need to take things in our hand, and not just ask the powers that be to 'right' their wrongs. they will never do so because to really address the enourmous challenges facing the world, from the degradation of the environement to the endless wars around the planet, what we need to do is eradicate the root cause of the problem, which is capitalism itself, which is the economic and political organization of the very powers that be whom you insist on petitioning. instead of asking them, what we need to do is turn to our real friends for support to spread and make our struggle effective, strong, massive, and convincing. these people are those that have the same grievances as yours, they are the oppressed of society, the workers. their numbers and ability to unite and organize can give a tremendous boost to our struggle. a general strike should then be the result of mass meetings WITH the workers, of their involvement, so that the strike does not turn out to be just yet another moment of togetherness, but can pose the question NOT of shutting down the city (which would inconvene a lot of workers and other oppressed) but TAKING IT OVER. i suggest that people read up on the seattle general strike of 1919, to see what possibilities there are when a struggle is massive, unified, and extended. best of luck!

America by consensus, our liberty or death!
That is exactly
what American freedom stands for. "
We the people."
Everyone seems to know this except for t
he bureaucrats in Washington who's ears are deafened by
their own entitlement. Their entitlement manifest itself in self
raises, personal social security, health care and pensions.
And if that is not enough Washington is suppose to reflect the
people. I see only lawyers! Why are there no carpenters or
artists or actors or moms or merchants or clergy in the Senate
or House. That woud be a concensus of the people. Instead
we are being told by a very small elite who are selling us out
to corporations for their own engrandizement, here is what we
have decuded for you. Except now they can't even deide.
More than ever we need a concensus by the people and for
the poeple. We need to be represented by many people's
voices and not just lawyers. We need to affirm that this is our
land, our government, our society. Time and again, we the
99% have given them an opportunity and we trusted them to
fulfill their promise and every time they are elected they disregard
us and make a career out of what is to be a four year job,
not fourty. Nothing corrupts absolutely like absolute power.
In reality the people have the power. United we stand, so do
not divide. Unite! Stay united. Vote with your feet and your
pocket book, Use the internet and social media. In one day we
could all refuse to buy anything and totally stop the US economy.
One email action that we unite on could make the earth stand still.
Look at the response in NY when just a
few weekends ago all took their money out of Bank of America.
This movement is not just an abstract hope because there is action.
We have momentum. We have already reach a concensus world wide and
that is to act together for the benefit of all mankind not just those
few at the top. Remenber it is the base of the pyramid that supports the top.
Take away the base and the pyramid crumbles.Continue today and
everyday take away just one brick from the wall. Wall street.
"Freedom, a government for the people by the people", not just lawyers.
Next time you vote, don't vote for a lawyer for public office, vote for a citizen
and rid ourselves of the promise breakers and of the corporate deal makers.
We have become a CORPacracy. All this ends everyday we stand united.
We are the people of America, get up and stand up for your rights.
Be good to yourself, be part to a concensus.

With the elections coming next year, can those who have set up camps throughout the U.S. in each location begin nominating the best of the best through a vote in each site to elect who our new occupy party believe will serve we the people the best? In New York elect through a vote who the people believe would represent us. In St. Louis do the same, and Kansas City do the same and so on throughout the country. Since the Republicans and Democrats are both owned by the same system, we can through this movement make it the third party in the debate that will once and for all serve the people as the system was initially designed to do. If we can get a few different people of our own on the upcoming ballot--we can finally have a say for a true person of change for us! We deserve this! It is our system that has been stolen--let's take it back! The Republicans and the Democrats--now our party--the Truth Party!

The boycott against capitalism is gaining steam partially because most people across the world cannot afford to buy useless junk but also because we are refusing to buy anything other than what we need to survive.

We are building a true democracy and working toward world peace. By purchasing useless junk such as jewelry, gadgets, unnecessary clothing and shoes, toys, make-up, etc you are not only demonstrating that you do not what to change for the better but you are standing against our movement for world peace and true democracy.

Do not even try to consider yourself a Christian, Jew, Muslim, ETC if you stand against world peace and unity!

This is a movement that is meant to fail. It has been planned to fail from the
beginning.

Since the financial crisis of 2008, many from all walks of life have predicted
social unrests, riots, violence on the streets, all the way to a full-scale
riot. The financiers are especially fearful of these scenarios.
They know when this happens, they will be the targets. They know they will be
easy targets, not having the arms to defend themselves. They approach the
militarists in Pentagon. Those militarists know that if those scenarios become
reality, they will become the center of
hatred if they were to openly defend the financiers. They do not wish to see
full-scale riots happening at all because this would mean sending out the
troops to shoot at civilians, something they want to prevent at all cost.
The financiers and the militarists come together to hedge a plot
against the occurrence of full-scale riots in the streets. They agree on a
simple strategy - start a controllable fire to prevent a much bigger one.
In typical military style, the importance of timing was taken into
consideration. In this case,the season has to be taken into account.
Start a small peaceful protest near to winter. Make sure that it remains
peaceful. This means it will be non-destructive, offering only passive
resistance. They believe such a movement will cause little damage, generate
little interest and gather little support. When it fails, it will dampen the
spirit, if there is any left in the people, to rebel. They expect
the foul weather of winter to douse out the controllable fire they have
started. The movement which starts near the end of autumn will be no more by the
mid of winter.

Look at the details. The way they are organised is based on the concept of a
guy who had worked as a consultant for the Pentagon in counter-terrorism.
It was supposed to Occupy Wall Street, even the New York Stock Exchange. Before
any action was taken towards this, it was announced openly. This prompted the
police to take pre-emptive measures, and all the targets became off-limit to
protesters. Even the Wall Street bull (the real one) is off-limit.
There was no intention to occupy any building or operate from within one. This
exposes the protesters to the weather.

Occupiers are RAPIST that take DRUGS.
This is a great way to put the movement in discredit.
People in Brazil that didn't even know about the movement now are aware that there is a revolution going on in US that rape young women and that they all take drugs.
Are you forgetting the power of mainstream media in destroying reputations?
Be very careful!

The mainstream media is covering RAPES all over OWS in US.
I didn't find any statement from the movement.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND SPEAK UP because there are numerous sites blaming the movement of committing crimes. a teenager rape included.
Still OWS says nothing.
This is not a good strategy.

51% of cops calling in sick? Right. If you get .0000000000099% of workers to join you I think hat would be a shock. When the strike flops, will you all just go home and realize the world has better things to do.

In solidarity NM we will strike and not spend a dime on Nov 2nd. In fact we have been and will continue to boycott consuming as much as possible.
The most money we spent in October was in donating to occupy wall street.
We are the 99% and we are too big too fail!

I am not a camper and never have been so I am SO impressed with you all continuing on your journey during these winter storms/wintering months. Bravo!

Do you have a social worker available to handle the mentally challenged homeless that the police have told to go to your "occupation"? If it's true Bloomberg actually suggested this to the police to do, I hope it's illegal and someone "pays" for this. It's very unhealthy for the mentally ill; not to mention what the police/mayor maybe up to ... i.e. destroy "occupywallstr."

Take care of yourselves .... Continue being mindful and peaceful b/c it is so impressive to the rest of the world and shows we're not all about warring.

You've got the goddamned wrong 1%. The one you should be worrying about is the 1% of Americans who are "social workers" that do nothing and get paid at the expense of tax paying americans. Or maybe you should be angry at the 49% of Americans. You know, the ones who don't pay taxes. They are a drain on the rest of us. Everything on this page wreaks of socialism and "spreading the wealth". Also, am I the only one here who pictures hippies saying "it's the corporations, man."? I mean really. The vast majority of the protestors don't know what they're protesting. Do the expect the big business to come out and write them a check for what they feel they are entitled to? Here read this ". The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare." maybe that will give all of you bottom 50% something to think about. I, as a true American, am a supporter of free enterprise, capitalism, and democracy(well democratic republic). Everything you've said about the "New world constitution" stands against that, and quite frankly, sounds like a hippie commune. It would be nice, if for once, people did some form of research before thinking up plans. Go look at how socialism/communism is working for everyone else in the world, then come back to me.

Oh no... you didn't just use the "h" word... we all know that its important to work very hard building useless things so we can buy more stuff from other people building useless things, until we have a whole pile of useless things and the whole world has a hole right through it.

Of course a social structure based on pure greed is the most natural and efficient system there is; just like Jesus didn't say: The love of money is the root of all evil

Its been over a month since occupy wallstreet. 1% and media is ignoring the voice of occupy protesters. It is therefore time to go beyond protest... Occupy Oakland has taken the lead. I pray to god that strike will be peaceful and effective in getting the voice of occupy heard or known to others in 99% who are still not aware of these protests. Yes it is true lot of people within 99 % don't even know that there is protest happening anywhere in usa.

If you try and shut down the 1% in every city, then the movement will be about more like 10%. Given the economic makeup of the U.S., I would wager that Oakland/Bay area possesses no more that 15% of the nation's top 1%. Henceforth, shouldn't your proposal reflect that your goal is to shut down the 0.15%. Maybe you should call another vote with the OWS delegates...?

We are moving into a confrontation with the 1% without the aid of our queen game piece. This is the New Guard we are to provide as a duty given us by our founding Patrons. At some point depending on how it goes we may have to consider commissioning this guard as 25 OECD nations have over the last 30 years. 99ers in other nations have developed and proven this citizen protector from police abuse for over 200 years and now two of our states have adopted this system. There are no detractors and it goes a long way in opposing the 1%. So lets have a discussion.

We the occupyers who represent the 99ers have decided to go on strike in Oakland to shut down the 1%. Pray that all goes well. If it does not we will consider our Declaration of Independence and commission New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed, tested, refined and proven to work in 25 OECD nations by 99ers over the last 200 years. Two states have already adopted their refinement of our given duty New Guard. They commissioned Jason Bourne to investigate corruption so as to end it. Jason is mandated to pounce on any policeman who abuses a citizen. Any citizen who hurls objects at the police is on his own. Behave yourselves and good luck.

ad-vice to oakland ows: have activist go to the farthest out-reach of bart, the bus syst., all public transport. have leaflists, go one stop - hand out all that will accept, get out, wait - next transport, go on to the next etc; have people tactical available at each stop: legal, witnnes, more leaflets,etc., all get off one stop short of, then march, loud.

I feel the leveling the playing field, addressing the disparity of wealth. But why the communist imagery in the poster? Some people very close to me suffered horribly under communists. Surely you don't want to identify with Stalin, Mao etc.? I hope you don't put that hammer and sickle up next.

Way to go Oakland!!!! This is the ballsyest thing the Occupy movement has come up with so far (besides coming up with the movement itself of course). Can't wait to see what Occupiers here in NYC will come up with to compliment this great feat (sort of like when the Beatles came up with Sargent Pepper after they heard Pet Sounds).

In any event I for one will not go to work on Wednesday, and I hope many other New Yorkers can do the same. Hopefully tonight's General Assembly in Zuccutti will suggest this to all who attend!!!!

How about all of you protesting go get a job? How do you support your families when protesting? Why do you think it is right that you destroy businesses around you and urinate and defecate wherever you please? You are all a bunch of animals that are jealous you get nothing handed to you, yet you want to take away from a successful millionaire who worked hard to get where they are. I saw one protester with a 20 dollar bill plastered to his face, that's why you don't have any success your destroying money. Don't forget to mention students that were in Citibank protesting they Signed a loan for 100+K a year for an education, and now don't want to pay it back, that is stealing right there. I am a working middle class citizen and proud to stand against OWS.

November 2nd will be a good assessment of how much popular support there is for this cause. My guess is that Oakland will mostly function as usual, but who knows. Guess we'll find out in a couple of days....

Seattle artist Duff Hendrickson created a handbill design to protest Bank of America, Chase, Citibank, and Wells Fargo in support of the "Move your Money" campaign. Hendrickson donated it to Public Domain, so you are free to publish it, print it, put it on web sites.

Duff hopes you'll print it and pass it out in front or near the banks as a protest.

HOW DID THIS ALL HAPPEN? >>>> IT started in March of 2000<<<<, Goldman-Sachs Board of Directors = 1Director from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, 1 from intel, 1 from GE, Big Oil, the TOP executives at Goldman-Sachs, where going to collapse the TECH MARKET to level the political playing field so G.W. Bush could have a better chance to BEAT Gore, which is exactly what happened. Bush got in and STOPPED the break up of Microsoft, (Please Read about all of this), Then "CREATED" a needless War "IRAQ" which
supported GE and other weapons manufacturers, BIG Oil got high oil prices because of the Wars, actually prices quadrupled, (SAME thing happen with George Bush Sr, exactly! "LIKE FATHER LIKE SON by design")
NO WALL STREET FINANCIAL INSTITUTION was prosecuted for Financial Fraud, for as the Tops Guys and there Buddies Got out of TECH, the Financial Institutions of Wall Street, lead by Goldman-Sachs told there Mid to Small Cap Investors to keep investing in TECH that = Criminal Fraud, this included Merrill Lynch, and even Charles Schwab! Then Alan Greenspan who was the Federal Reserve Chairman, who came here to Teton County to party with the likes of Dick Cheney = Halliburton, Dan Cook the III = Goldman Sachs & Walter Scott Jr = Level 3 Communications, they all live here in the SUMMER, during this time Greenspan deregulated the financial institutions, which is what Bush & Cheney and their Buddies all wanted, to keep the cash following so they could keep their WARS going. Note Here: Obama once in office never FIRED anyone at the SEC for failure to protect the US Financial System, NO ONE GOT Fired !!! Do you run any business that way ? NO! OBAMA is one of them HE is an absolute
PHONY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once Bush got a free for all going on Wall Street, the Banks, the Mortgage Institutions, Wars going and going......Exxon-Mobil OIL made BILLIONS, the Saudi Royal Family it is estimated made over a 3 TRILLION. GE made
billions in WEAPONS, HALLIBURTON MADE BILLIONS & BILLIONS, GOLDMAN SACHS through selling fraudulent bundled mortgages MADE BILLIONS and the AMERICAN PEOPLE when it was all said and done....were left holding the BAG an empty BAG. IT is absolutely time to CHARGE, CONVICT and in my opinion HANG, them ALL for >>> Financial Terrorism, Financial Treason, War Crimes, the death of thousands of US Soldiers, and families who have lost everything HERE, we were once a Democracy but now we are Totalitarian State. NOW it is TIME to Organize and get ready for Massive General Strikes this Summer!
Until Obama steps down, Goldman-Sachs Executives and Cheney & Bush JR & SR are arrested, convicted and in my opinion Hung for their crimes against Humanity and this Country. James P. Evanhoe jimevanhoe@gmail.com

Occupy Wall S. -- Declaration of Independence -- 2011 Version
OWS Declaration of Independence
IN CONGRESS, 2011.
THE UNANIMOUS
DECLARATION
OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA's 99% .
WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political & Economic Bands which have connected them with, and to assume, among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Reformation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness.
-- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes;
and accordingly all Experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.
Such has been the patient Sufferance of these 99%; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present 1% is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these 99%. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
The 1% have refused Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good.
The 1% have forbidden the 99% from passing Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till their Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, they have utterly neglected to attend to them.
The 1% have refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyranny only.
The 1% have called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.
The 1% have dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness their Invasions on the Rights of the 99%
The 1% have refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining, in the mean Time, exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and Convulsions within.
The 1% have endeavored to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
The 1% have obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
The 1% have made Judges dependent on their Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.
The 1% have erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance.
The 1% have kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the Consent of our Legislatures.
The 1% have affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
The 1% have combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving their Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
--FOR quartering large Bodies of institutional bankers among us:
--FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any fraud which they should
commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
--FOR dispersing our jobs to all Parts of the World:
--FOR discriminating against the majority and lifting taxes only for the rich:
--FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of bankruptcy and Trial by Jury:

For those people who are getting wet feet, a trick from my youth; Use plastic bread bags or shopping bags over dry socks. Do not put them over wet socks. This is a help against non water proof shoes and boots.
Also, for cold hands, squeeze sponges or soft balls for 1-2 minutes to start circulation. Kineetic exercises work well if you can do that.

For those people who are getting wet feet, a trick from my youth; Use plastic bread bags or shopping bags over dry socks. Do not put them over wet socks. This is a help against non water proof shoes and boots.
Also, for cold hands, squeeze sponges or soft balls for 1-2 minutes to start circulation. Kineetic exercises work well if you can do that.

Didn't Joe Bidden accuse Republicans of keeping the "Jobs Bill" from passing thus resulting in having less cops on the street thus leading to more rapes? Is OWS advocating less cop on Nov 2.....more rapes?

To get the police to your side you must show them they are part of the stepped on. Get some signs that are pro-police. Some that show they too are being squeezed by the system. Put that in their faces and they'll start thinking. Put it out there that their jobs and their pensions are at risk. Show them you are on their side too. Show them that Wall Street bankers and the politicians who protect them are not their friends. Seeds of doubt turn into oak trees of revolution. Turn the police, and you turn the military too. Signs, people. Signs facing the police telling them "Wall St. hurts police." "Wall St. hurts 1st responders."

Didn't Joe Bidden accuse Republicans of keeping the "Jobs Bill" from passing thus resulting in having less cops on the street thus leading to more rapes? Is OWS advocating less cop on Nov 2.....more rapes?

I think those of us who support what you're doing think it's time to move to the next step. You have so many supporters who don't want to really "get involved," they just want to help you spread some soundbites.

How about at least throwing around some slogans pointing out that we ARE the government. We elect those guys are making the laws that benefit only the 1%. Something about KNOW WHO IS DONATING AND HOW MUCH TO THE GUY YOU VOTE FOR!

After all, in the long run, that's the only thing that will make any real difference at all.

Yes !!!! Shut them DOWN! Rich people, we don't need them. We can build a better world for ALL of us, not just 1%. We need to do this for us and our kids. We all need a better life than what we now have. We are fighting the rich, we have no choice. But, WE the 99% will win !!!

Just wait. This is the second major step towards an armed revolution here in America (The Oakland Incident being the first). The pseudodemocratic government and corrupt corporations cannot deny the people of this nation a future much longer. Unless there are some serious changes in America and soon, this will lead to an armed Revolution. The people will take back what is theirs one way or another.

Reign of Terror
Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_terror
"a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution[began 1789]"
Once the violence started, France did not settle down until 1804, after 3 coup d'etat, and Napolean established his dictatorship, the Napoleonic Empire.
Napolean participated in all 3 coup d'etat, and didn't stop until he was sole dictator.
Reconsider violence or you can expect "the new boss will be the same as the old boss".
Choose violence and you will only be branded a terrorist. Choose violence and you will only give the government the excuse they need to herd us into the FEMA camps. Choose violence and you become like the corporations and governments we want to change. Choose violence and TPTB will only escalate their ongoing violence.

The peaceful 2nd American Revolution began in NYC on September 17, 2011. A new type of self-government is evolving, peacefully, in the General Assemblies at all the Occupy demonstrations and in the Internet chat rooms. The new paradigm will be created by all the 99%. Participate in it's creation by joining a General Assembly(GA) and learning GA skills. For a humorous look at GA skills, see the Stephen Colbert videos elsewhere on this website( http://occupywallst.org/article/ketchup-and-justin-foil-colbert-optation/ )

I propose that we demand the withdrawal of police from this affair. We are in fact challenging the very corrupt system which controls the police. As serious as our current situation is (millions of people becoming incapable of providing for themselves) fighting with police is a distraction.

Who is telling them to fight us? Why are they not fighting with us? Aren't we the people who pay for their services so that our human rights are protected and not abused??

Boycott the police presence in the occupation, continued police presence equates to opposition to our fight against corruption as the police serve the very people who are oppressing us all rather than protecting us from them.

Call for all mayors and officials to step down if they continue to send police to the occupation.

Shut down the entire capitalist system and work on building a new government.

This is a wonderful idea. Work for its success and produce similar ones. I see the victory getting near day after day.
American Police is ignorant like italian one, but our policemen haven't salarium, petrol and means to catch thr criminals. So they are organizing a strike for the next days.
I hope the same thing can happen to our policemen, too.

I think it's a good Idea to shift more focus on the west coast where it's warmer during the winter months,,awesome idea!! Overwhelm the west coast especially CA where they think life is a beach,,it's not the poor and elderly are suffering...there are financial markets here too! Thunderhands

I hope that Occupy Oakland links up with labor on this and future actions. A general strike is a major step even for a day. Preparation is needed to maximize its impacts and ensure that the media narrative helps rather than hurts the movement. Good luck.

Wall Street is a confidence trick, a dazzling edifice built on paper promises, gambling, bets and rampant speculation. Wall Street doesn’t manufacture or produce anything. The Wall Street however attractive it may appear is built on paper.
Modern day bank robbers are at Wall Street but they wear grey suits and not masks. Rampant speculators, propagandists and financiers of Wall Street are given some unfair advantage over the average consumers and taxpayers and the cumulative effect of the people watching selfishness prevail over the public interest has been an undermining of the public’s trust in the present US government. There’s no question the Wall Street is rigged against the average consumers and taxpayers. The Wall Street has a lot more information. Wall Street jerry-rig the system so that Wall Street always win. If the Wall Street loses trillions, the US Treasury will bail the Wall Street out so it can go back and do it again.
50 trillion dollars in global wealth was erased between September 2007 and March 2009, including 7 trillion dollars in the US stock market, 6 trillion dollars in the US housing market, 8 trillion dollars in the US retirement and household wealth, 2 trillion dollars in the US individual retirement accounts, 2 trillion dollars in the US traditional defined benefit plans and 3 trillion dollars in the US nonpension assets. Greed, arrogance and incompetence created a massive meltdown, cost trillions, and still Wall Street comes out richer and more powerful.
There are trillions dollars of new money taken again from Americans to make deals and hand out outrageous bonuses. And when these trillions run out Wall Street will come back for more until the dollar becomes junk. The value of the US dollar declined very significantly during the last 70 years. The value of the US dollar in 1940 was worth 2,000% more than the value of the US dollar now.
Many big US manufacturers are outsourcing to Mexico and China to increase their profits, adding more unemployment in the USA. Manufacturing jobs in the USA declined 37% between 1998 and 2010. Since manufacturing industries declined in the USA, the US competitiveness in the global marketplace is also declined.
The demise of Glass Steagall act helped spawn the credit crisis by allowing the US Banks to reinvest money that was not theirs; they gambled; they failed; they passed down the burden to the people.
The top 6 US banks had assets of less than one fifth of US GDP in 1995. Now they have two third of US GDP. The financial crisis was created by the biggest US banks to consolidate power. The big banks became stronger as a result of the bailout by the US Treasury. The big banks are turning that increased economic clout into more political power.
Oligarchy is the political power based on economic power. And it’s the rise of the Wall Street in economic terms, that it’d turn into political power. And Wall Street then feed that back into more deregulation, more opportunities to go out and take reckless risks and capture trillions of dollars.
Wall Street only has the lobbyists. Today more than 42,000 Wall Street lobbyists manipulate USA's 537 elected officials with huge campaign contributions that fund candidates who support their agenda. It no longer matters who's the President of USA.
Since the heads of Wall Street and their representatives are afraid because they don’t have the substance or the arguments, they will not come out and debate with the people who occupy the Wall Street.
The political and economical leadership of the US has chosed to cartel profits and transformed the US economy to serve the colluding and unlawful oligarchy. The political and economical leadership of the US is bailing out failed paradigms with trillions of dollars while committing social injustice to its people. The political and economical leadership of the US including the US Congress have now become Wall Street's "Trojan Horses". The US banks are borrowing money at near zero interest from the US government, then lending it back to the US government at even mere fractions higher interest than they are paying. The net interest margin made by the US banks by lending the money back to the US federal government in the first 6 months of 2011 is 210 billion dollars.
Due to the oligarchs’ rapacious looting and their purchase of a politically protected luxurious lifestyle, the people of the US are on the road to permanent serfdom under a police state. The democracy was not given to the people of the US on a platter. It is not theirs for all time, irrespective of their efforts. Either people of the US organize and they find political leadership to take this on or they are going to be in deep trouble.
The failure of governance to address the current critical issues have already produced catastrophic consequences. Now we are experiencing a major global paradigm shift and it is still unfolding.
-Nalliah Thayabharan

Corporations want to get paid and they dont care who bleeds
Thats why my sneakers are made by children over seas
And their hourly wage is not enough to eat,
but companies get away because no one oversees.
man It’s about the G’s, better get em
Because I’ve seen the poor get ignored by the system.
But in reality I see the poor are the Victims
of this cannibal animal called capitalism.
Wheres the lack of division between the haves and the have-nots?
Chance to advance but they plan so you can not.
Get the jail route if you caught with that crack rock
get a bail out.... If your crimes are from bad stocks.
Cant stop trying to find answers
how can they deny coverage when they find cancer.
Tax breaks for the rich while the poor trying to buy Pampers.
You cant prepare for the life after with your Blood Money.

Wall Street ruins lives for that Blood Money
In Iraq soldiers dying for that Blood Money

We ignoring human rights for that Blood Money
The environment sacrificed for that Blood Money

We all going to pay the price for that Blood Money
Thats what they want from me

The Planet gets warmer cuz you filling up your Humvee
the cash from countries where kids going hungry.
Drug war in Mexico is getting kind of ugly
and we support it every time we buy a bag and puff trees.
You must see the terrorist that want to bomb you
get there money off the drugs you put in your nostrils.
And I support that Julian Assange dude
he showed us who we killing when we bring them bombs through!
Do what I’ve got to, I’m just tryna survive shopping that gross product from off of I-95
Because thats how we was brought up, how we was taught to survive
knowing we going to get caught up and locked up for our crimes
i’m from where the greed breed hopelessness
Politicians on the TV they dont think we notice it.
Give me a week of them Wall Street bounces
I’ll take it to the streets and feed homeless kids off of this BLOOD MONEY

I've read a great many of the comments posted here and have come 2 the conclusion that those ppl. want nothing short of a Socialist government. I cannot allow that 2 happen 2 our Republic. I will fight 2 my dying breath 2 keep the freedoms our Founding Fathers envision in our beloved Constitution and Bill of Rights. I did not serve my country 2 c it go down in flames 2 Statists. That is exactly what I fought against during my time in the service. Don't like my attitude, then come hunt me down. Not with words, but with actions. 4 actions has always speak louder than words ever do. U will never shut me up or change my thinking on this. God Bless America and the Tea Party! Hurrah!

What is so bad about socialism? Social security is a form of socialism, so is unemployment. Taxpayer money going to fund public schools for that matter, or going to build highways. Money gets collected from the populace and redistributed for the social good. We already do that in this country. The problem is that too many of the people and companies in power are allowed to become more and more powerful and that precludes a democracy in which every vote counts. Socialist systems don't undercut democracy. Plenty of European countries have socialist systems and are democracies. They take care of their people. Is that so bad?

Socialism as a system of government has always failed. Everytime. Being an older American, I have the perspective of age and experience to know what a free society is and what is not. Why should I be taken care of? That is my responsibility, not the government's. Why should I have u take my hard earned money to give to others who r to lazy to work? Self reliance, accoutability, responsibility and being independent r the hallmarks of being a free individual. And I believe in the individual, not the masses. Those qualities r what made this country, not sucking at the tit of a so-called benelovent government. My money is mine. Not urs 2b redistributed as u c fit. Capitalism is the greatest boon to mankind that there ever was. It enabled people to strive to attain the things in life that they wanted. It gives a person a sense of accomplishment and self worth. The value of such really cannot b quantified by slogans or utopian apirations of the intellectual elite who think they know better than u of what is best for u. I have not even mention the horrors that await those who think, talk, act, or believe differently than those of the State. I've seen it. The ultimate end to that kind of system is the enslavemnet of man. The denial of free will. No, u will not convince otherwise. Nor will u my children who I am raising to have the same beliefs and value system that I have. Which is why I home school them. I'm not blind to the fact that our educational system has been taken over by those of ur ilk. Social Security was pushed thur by 1 of the worst Presidents we have ever had, FDR. A protege of another really bad President, Woodrow Wilson. Ur vision of what America should b and mine r diametrically opposed. There is no common ground for us to debate. The resolution of this conflict will b settled only 1 way, with bloodshed. And we far outnumber u with ppl. and guns. Sooner or later, we'll get po'd enuff not to take any more of ur crap and put and end to it. Count on it. Now go away and try to convince some kid who does yet know the difference between being free and being dependent on the State.

No, it's not. I totally agree. Most people (especially those who are against socialism) don't even know what it is or don't eve stop to think that we already have it here to some extent. They think it's evil, because of what the media and the 1% tell them. Of course, the 1% is against it, because in a true socialist country, like those in Europe, the 1% wouldn't be able to get away with its bullshit (the ones who are the criminals).

I totally agree with the principal of calling general strikes but they produce no results other than group therapy for the oppressed unless they stay out until demands are met. Unfortunately OWS has no demands other than the Declaration of Occupation who's principals I also agree with but until OWS lays down some concrete demands that the public can throw their support behind OWS can forget about becoming a popular movement.

Throughout human history the majority of the public has only shown support for concrete demands in popular uprisings. Recently the American public has been polled at 75% in support of a Canadian style single payer healthcare system just as an example

However, by not taking a solid stand on actual policy positions that will improve the living standards of the American public and claiming that OWS doesn't need a list of demands simply reminds the public of the weak kneed politicians controlled by the corporations that inhabit the white house and congress today.

I can't support an organization that doesn't have serious policy positions. I support the New England Chapter of the Carpenters and Joiners Union because I know exactly what they stand for and they run the only single payer healthcare system in the country by being self insured. My union local has benefited me and son for many years.

So now the call out for a general strike is spreading across the internet and attaching Scott Olsen's name to it, calling for an end to police brutality. Well, though police brutality is a worthy cause the overwhelming majority of Americans have no experience with police brutality but they do with a class structured radically expensive healthcare system that treats the public as chattel.

Successful popular movements that have forced the government to adopt popular policies have coalition building at the heart of them. If OWS does not lay down some solid policy positions OWS can forget about getting the public to stand behind it with any significance that could actually force a policy into law.

Once again, here are the policy positions I support and am proposing that OWS adopt in order to grow support to take back our government from the 1%.

No, Unification and working together, getting people on the same page so we can have their mandate to move forwards, to get past the propaganda the 1% are constantly broadcasting through their media companies, is the bulk of what we need to do right now.

Although in order to get people to unify we do need to have a plan, yes, and while I understand the benefits of a strike unfortunately mostly people don't. So yes, there has to be something more here, less scattershot and more intelligence.

So go to your local occupation and say that, that is one of the great things about the GA, everyone can speak so fringe ideas (like that there has to be a point, apparently) can be appreciated. I have been down to my local occupation and talked to people, and will probably try to help at the GA soon, but I don't live in oakland. They will cotton on eventually, as their thinking moves forwards, and when they do this unification will leave them well prepared to act.

Here is the policy position of 39 other nations who mandated this system. The 99ers will not allow mob rule. Our ows faction represent the 99ers and we need to do a good job of this. We commission Jason Bourne as a duty given us in our Declaration of Independence. We are to provide New Guards for our future security. These guards have been developed by 99ers in other countries 200 years ago. They have been refined, tested and proven to end corruption. Two states have already adopted this system. These plenipotentiaries demand nothing. If there is abuse advancements and pay are halted for 5 years. Any further abuse and they are removed permanately. Same with any other gov. agent or rep. All other untested means have proven to fail. We cannot experiment as reps of the public. They need to know what we are doing has been proven to work in 25 OECD nations.

Not that I support the methods, but the French did not have any specific demands when they overthrew the monarchy; they were just poor, hungry, and really pissed off.

I think the point is the occupation, the system itself is broken; and it will continue to grow so long as it continues to be business as usual; at least for me what I hope to see is a major structural change that actually results in a government for the people.

Specific demands might come after that, but right now I think its more about educating people about why we are in this horrible mess in the first place.

Overcoming propaganda, yes, that is a major, major part. And make no mistake there is a LOT of propaganda.

By getting together with reliable, unbiased communication channels like unmoderated forums (verified) and in person we can cut through the propaganda. But it isn't easy, and takes a lot of time. This is why the 1% really hate these occupations, they are helping people wake up.

That is a complete mischaracterization of the French Revolution. Your pretending the French masses were poor when in fact France was a very healthy middle class society until the French King chose to back the American slave owner revolt picking a fight with the soon to abolish slavery British. Who had a much larger navy which blockaded and raided French trade ships causing the French economy to collapse. And yes, the French revolution did have demands and a plan and the result was called the French Civil Code.

I suggest you read a little french history before you insult the entire nation of France. The French Revolution was a middle class revolution of literate shop keepers, farmers, manufacturers, physicians, engineers and some nobles.

Because it has taken you Americans 211 years to catch up and have your own middle class revolution certainly does not make you experts on how to have a revolution, it makes you absolute beginners.

I really don't think anyone is being insulted by my comment; but rather than make snide analogies I guess I could just been blunt and said that the ruling class can only wage war and starve its own people for so long before the people revolt and make a new system.

I'm no expert in French history to be sure, but if I'm not mistaken the after the "let them eat **" comment, it would seem that the ruling power got its head cut off, and the people took back their country.

“There's a time when the
operation of the machine becomes
so odious—makes you so sick at
heart—that you can't take part.
You can't even passively take
part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon
the wheels, upon the levers, upon
all the apparatus, and you've
got to make it stop. And you've
got to indicate to the people who
run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the
machine will be prevented from
working at all”
― Mario Savio

oh my god you guys totally have to do this! it's a great way to not only show wall street and the "man" how to stick it to them.. but it'll empower you!

when i was 18 i went to university, studied hard, got a scholarship, took out a loan to pay for school! then after that i got a job that pays me really well! holy crap! i continue to work hard and get this, my job keeps paying me more! it's awesome! i even have friends! so instead of occupying wall street. let's occupy classrooms and work hard to achieve something! don't achieve goals tho.. someone posted that goals are for the "man". all this time i achieved goals! how dumb!

i bet all of you are posting comments from your ipad, macbook, or pc! holy crap! did you know those were created by big corporations?! they buy the pieces and labor over in china! let's all destroy our computers right now in protest! yes!

and let's stop recycling! recyclable materials are sent to china! holy crap! the amount of energy it takes to recycle and send things to china means that more pollution is created by recycling then it is if you just bury your trash in the ground! whoa!

ok, so on the count of three, we will all throw soda cans on the ground and then throw our computers out our windows.. one.. two.. thr-..

thank you, oakland; now is the time for veterens, the TRADE unions, to step up. ALL SOULS DAY. no more, shut it down. All Hallow Even (halloween) : 1) to make holy or set apart for holy use.2) to respect greatly: venerate. PROPOSAL; ALL GENERAL ASSEMBLIES.

we want democratic control of our community police.
who is controlling these thugs in police uniforms?
the subprime fraud was an INSIDE JOB nationally organised.
we want our money, future and homes back.
mass unemployment is here to stay. automation has taken the jobs.
the end of cannabis prohibition nationally is the RAPTURE.

Have you known anyone who was harmed by communism? I used to wear a shirt with a hammer and sickle on it in my younger punk days to churches (I liked to make people feel uncomfortable), until I met people who were destroyed by communism (family killed, maimed). Then I got rid of it. Why replace one form of oppression with another?

The poster is soooooo black and red 1950's socialist (in the Soviet or Chinese sense, not the academic sense) looking you gotta admit. That's why people see it as so dramatic. But do we really have to be communist here, or use their style/imagery? Do we want to make people more violent?

While San Jose was praised for being one of the top few lowest crime rate cities, a few hundreds policemen were laidoff this year due to the budget cut. Now the crime rate is cripping up. This can happen to all the hard working policmen in different cities, and they bears no fault for the economy and deficit. It's not about whether it will happen, it's about when. Calling our law enforcement folks of the 99%, join the strike!!!

the crime rate rises due to the main cause of the symptoms...the illegal war on drugs. Personally if we can end the drug war and have sane regulation and treat it like portugal does, we will need LESS cops, and that is a good thing.

No, ideally we don't want a lot of cops or prisons! We need good EDUCATION and sensible systems in all areas to build a safe society. But before making those fundamental changes which god knows how long it takes to get there, we can't do without cops to keep the crime rate low. Also, not everything is about drug, lot more complicated social problems we have comparing to Europe.

I suggest the ows people purchase a tone of hand warmers, body warmers, toe warmers and stick them in their shoes, and through their clothing, in their hats and keep them in their gloves. They last for eight hours at a time especially if you use the insole warmers for shoes. I work outdoors, so I know. That way nobody can say you breaking the law and you would be warm enough to stand out there. Get them online at whole sale price and check out tingly rubber overboots, stuff it with steger, mukluk wool felt insoles, steger mukluk wool felt liners, wigwam wool acrylic socks, thorless heavy wool trekking socks, an ovn abg as a vapor barrier and then polyester dress socks for another liner, sounds like a lot of packing but its better in layers and theses layers unlike expensive winter boots serve to minimize excessive sweatring in the feet that usually freezes against the outer temperature, you want to hunker down for the winter, follow these rules besides what you have concerning you dress warm clothing and other accessories

This must be nationwide. And to OWS, do not settle for any solutions from the powers that be. We must do this as individuals, as human beings. Millions of ideas. Millions. The globalists want to use this to better themselves. Keep it human, avoid the collective. Avoid group-think and order. You cannot an arrest an idea and you certainly cannot stop millions of ideas and actions.

With Brothers and sisters and first time protestors from all over California, angry locals, striking union laborers, students, and teachers, and city workers, I would not at all be surprised to see 50,000 to 100,000 if not more.

A portion of proceeds will go toward the local movement in the form of food and water. If you have a few extra bucks, drop off a box of apples or anything you can to the folks outside in your community!

This is really amusing. You all are dreaming about how many people are with you. Just look around. Your gatherings are really pretty small. The fact is, there aren't nearly as many of you as you think.

Isn't that cute how a bunch of self serving labor activists have turned OWS (warm bodies) into nothing but an extension (tool) for their own use? Well, they (the self appointed leaders of the "leaderless" OWS) have been busy manipulating behind the scenes:

Mark, I agree with you completely. In fact just last night I was
reading the section in Grieder's book on the Fed where he contrasts
the class base and resulting politics of 19th vs. 20th century
populists (progressive and reactionary respectively). (See bottom of
page 265 for his punchline on this.)
That's why I spoke of both left and right wing populists today.
The kids today at OWS who are proworker, antiracist, antisexist,
anti-imperialist, but who think the solution is ending the Fed, or
restoring Glass-Steagall, or breaking up the big banks, or moving our
money to credit unions -- isn't left populist a fair term for them?
And it's meant not in an elitist or dismissive way, but as a sign of
their lack of exposure to basic socialist ideas -- for which we all,
of course, share some responsibility.

Aww, love that paternalistic tone. Now, now, you kids, just put away those silly notions about credit unions, ending the Fed, breaking up monster banks and restoring Glass-Steagal. This isn't about that, after all. This is about you as foot soldiers for somebody else and their cause - namely protecting their paychecks and that means corrupt and wealthy union bosses who are in bed with the very politicians putting the screws to you.

It's not Wall Street. Or Capitalism. It's Washington: The US Federal Government spent $125.4 billion US taxpayer dollars in improper payments in 2010: "For fiscal year 2010, federal agencies reported an estimated $125.4 billion in improper payments, an increase of about $16 billion over the fiscal year 2009 estimate of $109.2 billion." http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-443R

What a lame idea. You're going to be targeting many people who are not part of the problem and will lose their support. Some people have small businesses and a day of strike will really hurt them. OWS has become nothing more than a totalitarian group who wants to push its agenda down the throats of everyone. You should target the problem with a solution, instead of targeting everyone without a clear agenda.

If you can not win over the police, control them.
This is not a game. We are fighting for our country here.
Have 500,000+ volt stun gun on you and a respirator if possible.
No one should be getting arrested, the cops can be controlled.

The hard progressive left in America has been unleashed into the streets by the community organizer in the White House. The current crop of street pawns, the banal cattle of Occupy Wall Street movement, are fed, herded, and coldly led by the professional agitators from ACORN, SEIU, and the Communist Party of America. These hardcore Alinskyites are well-funded and well-organized. Through a series of set-piece street actions and media events coordinated with the White House, the street cattle's drumbeat attacks on capitalism, property rights, and traditional religious and working class values have successfully dominated the news cycles.

Hmm. Exact opposite of what I said. However, if he were not so incompetent at managing, I do believe that this kind of Alinsky-like polarization is right in his ballywick. He just can't pull it off himself, so he relies on his proxies to do it for him.

I'm getting angry just thinking about the fact that we can so easily shame somebody like Anthony Weiner out of office for photographing his underwear and sending it to a consenting adult--something that had no direct bearing on his official capacity; yet THE WHOLE OF OCCUPY WALL STREET HAS NOT SHAMED A SINGLE POLITICIAN TIED TO WALL STREET CORRUPTION FROM OFFICE. Start with Geithner.

The 1% does not have to be in Oakland on Nov 2, just their cronies, so it does not affect them personally. But this does affect the 99% businesses who will be affected, not to mention traffic gridlock, and many interruptions that will affect if not the 99%, the % of the 99% that is in favor of this movement but who cannot participate due to their own particular situation and needs (shutting down one small business might result in someone having less to eat this week).

I completely support the Occupy movement and all that it represents but it has to avoid affectiong others other than the 1% perpetrators.

I've worked in the service industry all my adult life, and one thing I can tell you for certain- if no one goes to work for a day due to weather or any other conditions, they will be stopping in small businesses for one reason or another during the course of the day.

Message to mayors, city councils, police chiefs and street cops of America: It is NOT UP TO YOU whether or not Americans peaceably gather , protest, discuss, play music, use megaphones, or wear masks. It's up to a document called the US CONSTITUTION. Zuccotti Park is no longer just a place- Zuccotti Park is everywhere. You can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down a people's hopes and dreams for a better life...with dignity and freedom....for themselves and their kids. More power to them!

The First Amendment is not absolute, it allows government to regulate the time of protest, place of protest and manner of protest in the interest of the greater good as affirmed multiple times by the Supreme Court as long as it does so in a neutral manner toward all groups.

So yes, government can regulate when and where. The ONLY reason you haven't been cleared from Zucotti Park is that while open to the public under the rules of the owner, Brookfield, Brookfield, not the city, controls the land the park is on. The city can only evict you IF Brookfield requests it. The moment they tire of this you are out.

Don't believe me? Look how accommodating the City of NY has been when you tried to march to and it appeared you intended to occupy Washington or Union Squares.

You have a right to peacefully protest WITHIN the law, your cause does not give the you right to do whatever you want, whenever you want.

we are building a new government with a new authority, we can do that because we are the people and we are the government. we will soon be able to ignore our current oppressive authority that is in fact governed by the 1%.

No, the supreme court says that, not the constitution. The supreme court also says corporations are people and it's okay if they control our country. The people who live in this country and who that decision affects will decide that, thanks.

You can't see the forest for the trees. We are ultimately just a group of people, and laws are just laws, they are not handed down by god.

It is ultimately up to the people. If enough people disagree with the government, then the government is corrupt by definition and the laws they disagree with are invalid.

and the supreme court was wrong....by all indications when you want to protest it is over something that is unpopular....and govt will always have those laws to stop unpopular protest. It was done on purpose to squash decent. Any readings of Madison and Jefferson will clearly laugh at the supreme court rulings we have had. Precedent does not equal true constitutionality. Never has, or Dred Scot would still be around.

Brookfield has wanted us out since the beginning but iirc the city pressured them to deal with it. They've even passed out silly pamphlets with "rules" meant to get us that said things like we couldn't leave our backpacks laying around. We used their rules as toilet paper because Brookfield no longer owns the property formerly known as Zuccotti Park. This land is now known as Liberty Square. It belongs to the people and it will continue to belong to the people.

Our presence is a show of force. We're not protesters, we're a community. While we remain peaceful, the police still know that if they attempt to evict us by violent force, people might choose to defend themselves and their homes. NO ONE wants that to happen. Even if we didn't defend ourselves and let the cops attack us, the public outrage would be so incredible (as we saw with Oakland) that the city government would lose a great deal of power (and power doesn't like losing power.) These are the only reasons why we haven't been invaded despite repeated attempts by Brookfield and the city.

thats why the movement will have more teeth, more space, and more legality with no BS private property loopholes if it is moved to Washington DC. That land is by far 100 percent the land of the people. no private property worries.

Wait, Jart is that true? that Brookfield no longer owns the property formerly known as Zuccotti Park? I am so amazed and impressed that you guys were able to seize private property from people who don't even need it. Well done and this should be inspiration for Occupiers everywhere. Private property only exists if WE allow it and right now we do NOT allow it. And it sound like you are saying you will defend the park that is now yours with force with need be. The cops better beware. RIght on guys and Great Job OWS!

Wait. Everything I just said directly contradicts the individual right to freedom. Now I"m confused. We are for freedom, right?
.

freedom from claims to own parts of the earth we all inhabit, freedom from oppression by a failed capitalist system that does not and will not ever guarantee any person the right to life, liberty and protection.

that kind of freedom, you can't find this is some textbook, it is a product of free thought. unlike most people in the old system, we in the new one are immune to vanity and we do not let others give us our opinions or perspectives through media propaganda.

No you moron, ownership is just a social convention. Of course we have to be careful about changing things too much for fear of unintended consequences, but there are all kinds of limits society has boxed the concept of ownership in with.

You can't own people as slaves anymore, thank goodness, although people like you would have it otherwise. You don't get to destroy land or other natural resources willy nilly whether you "own" it or not.

And don't get me wrong, there are many of these things, like some parts of zoning (determines what you can do with your own land), that do have very adverse consequences, and should be backed off of.

But ultimately the concept of ownership only exists under the assumption that it is beneficial. Brookfield never earned the land. They never worked for it, they certainly did not make it! Denying it to them does not cause any adverse fallout - it does not take away the incentive to earn things to own things.

In contrast to people like you, I have the knowledge and cognitive horsepower to make decisions on a more fine grained basis, to prune away the rotten parts so the tree can be healthy again. Rather than relying on blunt instruments like letting it go rotten and infested with vermin and corruption because I am terrified of harming the tree.

Oh, thanks Genius. I have learned from you several things. 1) I am a moron. 2) I support slavery. 3) Brookfield "buying" Zucotti park does not make them the "owners" of the property. (you are wrong by the way and you should be glad because if NYC owned the park the camp would be gone. and 4) I have no knowledge nor cognitive horsepower, (thus am a moron, see #2). Thank you for the fantastic exchange of productive dialogue and conversation that OWS is supposed to be about. They should put your face on a t-shirt.

If this upsets you then what did you think the word occupy meant? We're reclaiming public/private spaces stolen for the people, democratizing them, using them to rebuild communities and meet the needs of the public. I think that trumps brookfield's "right "to a piece of paper guaranteeing them despot like authority over that land which allows them to use the police to enforce its use as a bougeois park for wall st. bankers.

Others can absolutely reclaim it. Land can only be held by a show of force. It can be a nonviolent threat to state power or it can be the tear gas, tasers and rubber bullets used by police. The question that matters is who will win? Will be it be a fascist government and its corporate overlords using it for the benefit of the 1%? Or will it be the people who'll collectively use it for the benefit of the 99%? You'll get far more utility from the latter. You'll also get more freedom because having such spaces breaks public dependence upon power structures.

You say utilitarian like it's an insult. Also if you think private ownership of public spaces by corporations who deny use of that space to the public while also receiving millions in government handouts is justice then I don't know what to say. Private property is an inherently unjust system.

Yes indeed. Now come the OWS militias, the tribunals, the hangings perhaps? Do they execute spies? What if a pack of accountants comes and seizes a corner of the park - will they declare war? When do they start building infrastructure - power plants, sewage treatment, plumbing . .?

So, you mean you're not only trespassing and destroying private property, but the local government is complicit? I bet anything the city ends up paying a huge fee for the damages in the future... damages that everyone in NY will end up paying.

Wrong. The most important thing of all is that it works. Those who will give up freedom for security (or in your case, mere convenience) will lose both and deserve neither - which founding father said that again?

"You can only protest if you do it in a way that doesn't annoy other people or the government"

What is a protest supposed to do if it doesn't annoy and rattle people? How can you expect to get a redress of grievances if no one cares if you protest? The constitution doesn't say "the people have a right to assemble and petition for a redress of grievances as long as it doesn't annoy, inconvenience or offend anyone."

The Native Americans did not have deeds to any land in North America. Readers will say well, that was not “their way.”

Oh, and what, pray tell, was “their way?”

Violent conquest

In fact, “their way” was violent conquest. In other words, they operated almost exactly like modern-day street gangs. They had their territory. They sought to expand it and did so by murdering neighboring (streetless at the time) street gangs—bashing heads with tomahawks, stabbing, shooting arrows into vital organs. They were also into kidnapping. Just a lovely group of innocent primitives before the evil white man arrived and corrupted them.

That was also the way of our European ancestors. It was “their way” for everybody on earth thousands of years ago when there were no countries, only tribes. Then there became two ways: violent conquest of nations by other nations coinciding with deeds supported by the rule of law within each country.

And that was the situation in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s and 1800s in the whole world.

In other words, the Native American way, violent conquest by tribes, was everybody’s “way” thousands of years ago. And it was their way AND partially our way between when Columbus discovered America in 1492 and around 1900.

When we arrived in the western hemisphere, the only way of acquiring land was violent conquest. That was the Native American way everywhere in the hemisphere. There was no rule of law.

And to the early European visitors to America, that was also their way with regard to foreign lands. When an Indian tribe wanted land, they just took it from another Indian tribe, or tried to. Europeans did the same with regard to land outside the borders of their own rule-of-law country.

So Native Americans have no complaint about how whites took their land before 1900. Those whites were just following the “When in Rome, do as the Romans do” rule.

The real complaint of the American Indians is not that we used violent conquest to take their land, but that we won. Hell, winning is how they got it before we got here.

Here is a quote from Wikipedia about the Five Civilized tribes:

The Five Civilized Tribes were the five Native American nations: the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole, which were considered civilized by Anglo-European settlers during the colonial and early federal period because they adopted many of the colonists’ customs and had generally good relations with their neighbors.

Isn’t that a nice story? You would think a liberal would like it. Among the customs they adopted were working at jobs and buying farms and businesses. In other words, they got deeds.

Socrates is a name coupled with noble thought, but the name alone does not really give an understanding of the culture that bore the noble gentleman.

Very similar to USA in a vital aspect. Socrates lived in a privileged class supported by a much larger slave class. That situation was common also but rules surrounded the culture in respect to the slave class.

Athens and Sparta were city states with their own governance. When war occurred between them the rules concerning the slave class were obeyed by both sides.

When conquest occurred then the vanquished rallied slaves and promoted them to a heightened status to assist winning back the lost ground. The moral is plain enough.

When Sparta conquered Athens and chose to run both cites as one empire , within a generation the Athenians had taken over governance. The rigorous and efficient soldier culture of the Spartans was no match for the greater humanistic depth of open ideas and discussion held by the Athenians.

Ideas won over might to put it bluntly.

Your explanation of historic colonizing and conflict is interesting.

To get the other side of the story and make a democratic compromise or even consensus would also would be interesting. It is of course not a one sided story.

The Quakers certainly went through a hard time as renegade settlers encroached onto land occupied by Native Americans and troubles were inflicted on all.

Justification for killing was little different to some situations in the globe today.

Deeds at that time belonged to Europe, a foreign culture.

The Newland - America

The King of England made a decree thus taking possession of the land after gaining some land in the North ( now Canada) from the French who were at war with the natives for years..

This Proclamation was not made with any agreement by the various native tribes who had many times the population of settlers. ( Imperial arrogance )

The Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763.

This proclamation by King George III reserved title in land to the Indians, subject to alienation only by the Crown

Much later after " Indian Removal" was rampant. unchecked by colonial govt.

The common justification went something along these lines.

God made the land
We are the people of God
So the land belongs to us.

"In the United States Indian title is the subservient title held by Native Americans in the United States to the land they customarily claimed and occupied. It was first recognized in Johnson v. M'Intosh , 21 U.S. (8 Wheat) 543 (1823)."

" It very early became accepted doctrine in this Court that although fee title to lands occupied by Indians when the colonists arrived became vested in the sovereign - first the discovering European nation and later the original states and the United States - a right of occupancy in the Indian tribes was nevertheless recognized. That right, sometimes called Indian Title and good against all but the sovereign, could be terminated only by sovereign act. Once the United States was organized and the Constitution adopted, these tribal rights to Indian lands became the exclusive province of the federal law. Indian title, recognized to be only a right of occupancy, was extinguishable only by the United States. Oneida Indian Nation v. County of Oneida , 414 U.S. 661, 667 (1974).

The usual method of extinguishing Indian title was by treaty"

The history is a sad one . Even the unjust laws were ignored and illegal slaughter was brought about by corrupt practices involving armies, mercenaries and land looters.

A rotten foundation. Things have not changed, but you can't bond a nation together without resolving those long standing differences.

Leadership from enlightened thinking, determined efforts to setting a better path and learning from history all are needed.

Many people have educated themselves and seek a better way that is inclusive for all.

Even though Socrates came from a slave supported state, he developed a legacy of thinking about the ethics of human existence and how man could enhance the human spirit for the common good.

wow, do they actually teach that bs in your history classes? Never heard of the trail of tears I guess... I know it makes people feel better if they think they "civilized" the non-christian savages; but really, it was just an excuse for mass murder. Native tribes respected their earth mother, and each other; they were not violent savages throwing tomohawks, at least not until it became clear that the white man had come destroy their way of life.

True, the Cherokees had their deeds taken away and were forced to leave the East Coast and walk to Oklahoma in the Trail of Tears—even though they sued (very liberal) and won at the U.S. Supreme Court level. But generally, the Indians who switched to the rule of law, rather than the rule of ancient conquest, got to keep their deeded land.

The deeds to reservations essentially recognize, and convert to rule of law, successful violent conquests by American Indians from before the white-man days. Arguably, the various Indian tribes could claim that their lands were stolen from them by other Indian tribes before the White man arrive. Why don’t they? Double standard. We white men know that well. Basically, everyone wants the rule that maximizes their amount of land, e.g., first come first served; high-water mark of their group’s conquests; tribal territory the day before the white men took some of it; etc.

That’s a bunch of pure selfishness and the notion that it is morally superior is equally pure liberal BS

Socrates, I'm sorry but I lost the location of your reply to one of my posts just when I wanted to respond. I think it was about reforms. Is there any way to search for individual comments on this website? I wanted to mention a lengthy one I wrote in reply to someone else, that pretty much summarized my response.

I think we were talking about replacing the state, and I mentioned a talk years ago in the Socialist Workers Party by George Novak, a Harvard-educated member, on Reform and Revolution (also published by Pathfinder Press as a book of the same name). He said there was no contradiction between fighting for reforms under capitalism, because they preserved the right of the working class to organize (I.e., civil rights), mobilized the masses out of passively accepting the status quo, and fought important victories that made workers' lives better.

Novak said that ultimately the reforms we all want cannot be granted under capitalism, and a revolution will be necessary, which will have to smash the entire state apparatus including the army and police. He said that even the leaders of the American Revolution still thought they could win their demands for reforms under British rule, and only went over to the idea of revolution a couple MONTHS before the revolution.

Hi, thanks very much, and I'll go back and look. I might have to get back to you later, because OWS is taking up hours of my time, every day now. My problem, if you could call it that, is I think OWS is the most important movement in a generation and that its success depends on adopting the right political strategies. So I can't resist adding the revolutionary ideas I learned in the SWP, in the service of what I believe is, ultimately, of life-and-death struggle--for politics and, basically, the fate of humanity.

I hope that doesn't sound immodest, but now it looks like I'm not going to be able to keep up with the profusion of ideas on the OWS site--already up to 800-plus for some topics.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your learned comments and a lot of wonderful history, and thanks very much for the information.

Hi thanks for the reply, and I have got to swear off the internet or I'm going to be in trouble. I just want to let you know how I've resolved my guilt over not being more active. I found the website of Socialist Action, which was formed by many long-time members who were expelled from the Socialist Workers Party in 1983, and which you might be interested in reading. (The SWP, which was a great revolutionary force in the anti Vietnam war movement and in legalizing abortion, has since self-destructed, tragically. They have virtually abandoned the class struggle in practice, although they do publish some good articles in The Militant online.)

I was overwhelmingly relieved by what I read on the Socialist Action website. There are two very good articles from the past couple days, one supporting OWS. It's fantastic that they're based in Oakland, which seems to have the biggest OWS following so far.

You're right about learning and understanding, and that's one big reason I'm grateful there are still some full-time revolutionaries, as in Socialist Action. The SWP, descended from Trotsky, always had a core group of leaders who worked full-time for the party. But all the members, even those who had to work at outside jobs, considered themselves professional revolutionaries. They were steeped in studies of history, politics, and economics, though of course from a very different vantage point than those subjects are usually taught--at least before a form of intellectual Marxism became popular in universities.

So I'm deferring as much as possible now to an organization that, although small, can do the kind of work of researching, compiling, and analyzing the current struggles that's essential to being informed--and active. I was very interested in SA's characterizations of the recent Arab revolutions, and of Obama, who they say has done more as a servant of the 1% than Bush would ever have dared. I'm not able on my own to formulate a correct political line in the present, even though I understand a lot about what happened in the past 40 years. So I'm overwhelmingly grateful there are people who have devoted their entire adult lives to revolutionary socialism who I hope can provide the leadership we need.

uh huh... successful violent conquests; my understanding is that prior to the arrival of Europeans, the idea of "owning" land was something they didn't really consider at all; and I'm also quite sure that the violent image your are attempting to portray is entirely a creation of European historians.

The truth is your ancestors were welcomed with open arms, as brothers, and proceeded to stab them in the backs (literally), and take their lands. If you look up "pure selfishness" in the dictionary, you'll find its something a lot closer traditional Anglo-protestant values than Native American values.

Endemic warfare is the state of continual, low-threshold warfare in a tribal warrior society. Endemic warfare is often highly ritualized and plays an important function in assisting the formation of a social structure among the tribes' men by proving themselves in battle.

Ritual fighting (or ritual battle or ritual warfare) permits the display of courage, masculinity and the expression of emotion. Thus one can view the practice as a standard form of conflict-resolution and/or as a psycho-social exercise. Native Americans often engaged in this activity.

Warfare occurs or occurred much more rarely in most other hunter-gatherer cultures, but only some indigenous peoples of the Americas were historically hunter-gatherers

Stuart Banner, a law professor, does not deny that between the early 17th century and the end of the 19th, nearly the entire land area of the United States was transferred from Indian to non-Indian ownership. But in How the Indians Lost Their Land, he offers an avowedly revisionist account of the way this happened. Previous scholars, he claims, have overemphasised the direct seizure of Indian land, failing to recognise that the process of acquisition proceeded mainly through legal forms: namely, purchase by individuals, groups or governments, and the signing of treaties between Indians and the United States. Banner criticises traditional accounts for denying that Indians had their own concept of private property and were tricked into selling land, and for maintaining that whites believed the native inhabitants had no real claim to land ownership. Actually, Banner insists, there were strong reasons to purchase the land and not simply to seize it. The early settlers lacked the power to dispossess the Indian population, and throughout the colonial era, with the French competing with the English for Indian loyalty, wholesale expropriation would have been politically counterproductive.

Makes clear that to avoid constant warfare and ensure legally valid titles and an orderly distribution of land among settlers, the English generally recognised Indian property rights and purchased land rather than simply taking it.

Through large scale mass murder, theft of their lands, and a then coordinated attempt by the government to exterminate their culture?

Its really too bad because the people running the US Government could really stand learn a thing or two from their traditional peaceful, spiritual, and non-wasteful cultural values... or perhaps their ideas about direct democracy.

At least in the last 50 years North American society has evolved to to the point where we only shoot our own citizens with rubber bullets instead of real ones; but point taken, sometimes I forget that neither America nor Canada were founded on particularly democratic principles.

As alexrai points out the history of USA is soaked in blood and not that of a foe but just a people who got in the way of others with metal and guns.

Predators.

The culture that has developed seems to be cheering crowds without much appreciation of the finer points of where we are traveling. Watch any political rally, mass cheering from unthinking mobs. Mobs can be led to go anywhere. Massive atrocities get public backing. We are manipulated against out finer human values.

from my understanding:a part of the 1%of 1776, crafted a list of grief, posted to those that could read (which was maybe 3-5% more), sent such grief on a one way communication gap of 3 mo. . today, is much different: you should be able to talk to clown in metal box, go to window 1 and/ or 2, and get what you want. we are the product of the 1%.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ”

Just because government HAS put limits on 1st ammendment, doesn't make it leagal

Your rights can not infringe upon another person's rights though, and supersede theirs. For example, we can occupy a park but that can't infringe upon other people's rights to use that park. We can drum, but that can't infringe upon other people's rights to a good night's sleep. We we think we can piss on the ground, but that can't make the ground of a park unsanitary for the lady's kids who will come play there. We can march, so long as we don't block traffic for the guy who wants to drive on the road. So yes, we are guaranteed the right to peaceably assemble, but the peaceable ends when we step on someone else's rights (disturbing the peace.) Once we step on someone else's rights, then the cops can come in and take back their rights for them, that we took.

So yes, understand while we are here in this park, we are occupying, and keeping it from use by others. What we are doing is civil disobedience. But we are using it to send a message. Going about our daily lives doing the same old same old, does not send a message. Most cities have been treating with us carefully, allowing our rights as long as we don't step on the rights of too many other people.

no one can claim to own anything anymore, especially public space, we are reclaiming the resources of the earth for the people of the earth...

again, no one owns anything anymore. we do not however intend on evicting people from their homes, that was the old system. we are, however, interested in seizing all foreclosed property claimed to be "owned" and allotting them to homeless people and families in exchange for service to our new system... it's one of our guarantees, what does the old system guarantee?

Now this is what I'm talking about! I have been working on an idea for months now. You can check it out at http://sites.google.com/site/onecompanyatatime. The beauty of it is that you can continue your life as usual, but still strike a powerful blow that will shake things up in the corporate world. They will wonder who will be next. We need to do something besides marching. Marching is great and I’m glad they’re out there, but there will need to be a next step.

Asking students to walk out of school?? So your asking college kids who pay for school to walk out and strike, or are you asking highschool or lower to just leave. Students have a responsibility to be in school not to strike for whatever reason. Don't ask them to walk out. Keep students out of this.

If someone is paying for their own college education, then I think it's up to them and is their right to skip for a day if they want to. No one will hold a gun to their heads to do it. It will be under their own free will.

I think all the 99% should have the opportunity to take part in the people's revolution. Yeah...I think it's the beginning of our revolution. One day out of school to participate in a great movement.....it's worth it. And, students are now, and always will be effected by everything that goes on. They'll be helping to build a new world, where perhaps, education will be free to all.

Quit blaming the government solely. Your view is so shallow, as you continuously refuse to put the blame on all the other guilty parties as well. That tells me you're either a 1% parasite, or you long to be one.

The "other" guilty parties only did what our government allowed them to do. I am fairly liberal... and even I can see that. Protesting the police brutality in Oakland is one thing... but thinking that the entire country yelling at the rich people in their individual city will accomplish anything remotely close to change is silly. Protest the people who write the codes. As long as Wall Street's despicable behavior remains legal, there is nothing, but nothing you, me or anyone else can do.

"The "other" guilty parties only did what our government allowed them to do." So, if the government told you that you could legally kill people and not be punished for it, would you let go of your moral compass and do it..... just because the government allowed you to do it?

That is such a weak argument..... to not hold guilty those who have done wrongly. And as an FYI, the NY State attorney general and other state's attorney generals are investigating and going after those who are guilty.

You know, Negative Nancy, it's that kind of talk that won't win you any 'followers' among the rest of us 99% out here. How about if you get Unicorn Steaks AND a free pony every year (as is your constitutional right in this brave new world that will be created, right?) - would that cheer you up?

Just from reading FreeMarkets' (extremely rational) other posts, it doesn't seem as though he only blames one party. His focus seems to be on the party most likely to be affected by such a movement (since, you know, we VOTE these turds in). CEOs, boardmembers? Not so much. Yell at 'em all you want, but people are going to keep buying their products. They'll keep making money. They'll laugh all the way to the bank.

But then, I'm probably a 1% parasite or long to be one, so what do I know?

Funny... I thought aspiring to be part of the 1% parasites was the American Dream... when did that change? Do we hate Steve Jobs now? Cuz I might have a hard time with that.... I'm a huge fan of Toy Story...

It most certainly is not moot. Not all of the 1% is the problem. That is exactly my point. Using a blanketed figure like the 1% rich number is too broad. It encompasses people it shouldn't and appears to trash the American Dream. Which, if you noticed, was exactly my point

I just would prefer to avoid a new era of Fatcats and Robber Barons. While too much Government is a problem, they should act as referee and rules committee, impartial with no influence from the players. Monopoly laws are all carved to hell right now, Glass Steagall has become a joke, Patent Laws are a mess... but with a true free market these items would pretty much not be there anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I am quite pro Capitalism (With just a hint of Socialism - Fire, Police, AND Health should be public based [with option of additional private added]), I am just anti-Conglomeratism. A true Laissez-faire market become Oligarchal or Facist quite quickly... as with anything there needs to be balance.

Agree there needs to be balance - freedom within the rules, which must apply to all. Tax loopholes must be tightened. 83 of the top 100 US companies have their HQs in tax havens. Of these 83, 74 are involved in Government contracts. How about a rule that states; Government will only procure goods and services from companies that pay federal corporation tax. That should reduce the vast amount of money being siphoned off from the public purse right? Or sounds too simple?

Also, surely you meant to write education in your list of socialist benefits too, at least for minors?

It was a quick example - yes education, also water, a few things that really are a necessity at this point. I did the quick 3 that are usually argued about (Because once you say Socialist - eventually someone screams Obamacare - so I figured might as well just hit that early).

Really the loopsholes need to be removed. Flat-progressive rates. No exemptions, no deductions, etc. Lower the overall rate across the board but remove these items and the net return actually becomes higher - since people would actually be paying the amount owed. Also raise the damned cap - this cap at what is it 150k I think (Not certain - little too busy to go dig the specific atm) for tax is just asinine. It was set when that limit was like making 10mil now - it just never got adjusted for inflation...

I believe Glass Steagall was repealed wasn't it? I guess that makes it nonexistent. Wasn't there some sort of iconic representation of justice that had something to do with scales [balance]?.... I think they already raped her though... :S

POLICE OFFICERS CALLING IN SICK ON NOV. 2ND WOULD BE BRILLIANT!!!! PLEASE DO!!! OUR BEEF IS NOT WITH YOU GUYS. ITS YOUR BOSSES WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH!

Yes what happened to Scott Olsen in Oakland is sad and irresponsible, however I am sure that police officer was not intending to do serious harm to anyone. Following orders made both the police officers and Scott Olsen victims of circumstance. Consider the situation: You have a job to do and swarms of people are crowding around trying to antagonize you. We must be patient with police until they learn they cannot stop us no matter what! The police are not our enemies, they are part of our communities. Many do need to keep their job, so I would understand if they do not strike, but I seriously doubt there are people lining up to be police officers these days in America. I seriously doubt that there are enough people with the integrity to fill the shoes of the good men and women that go out there every day to police the streets.

I particularly don't care much for police because never once were they ever able to help me in any situation, so I have no use for them, but thinking about the danger they face every day on the "beats" in NY, New Orleans, LA, KC, Maryland, Ect.... makes me feel that the job they do is one of the most uncompensated jobs in America when you consider the risk/compensation factor.

The police are the 99% as well! We need to gain their support! The ones that are not corrupt would probably be willing to take a vacation, or join the protests, or perhaps even "look the other way" while events are in motion. Make friends with the police around you, be polite, try to win their hearts and minds..... The truth is THEY DO NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO FACE THE DANGER THEY FACE EVERYDAY. OUR CAUSE MAY BE VERY APPEALING TO THEM ONCE THEY LEARN THEY ARE NOT OUR ENEMY.

I couldn't agree more- cops have it hard, so hard, they have become hardened. Treat them with the respect those in power don't give them. Special note: after Scott Olsen was injured, some cops in Las
Vegas joined their local 99% for a vigil for Scott- the cops were invited back for a pot luck dinner with the 99%. This is what our country needs.

I will also join the Strike, here from the Sahara and I hope the whole world will follow on 2-11! Or atleast look at you in Oakland! I was with you when the police attacked you. I fought ABC7News for putting off there choppercam. I was twittering that they were corrupt journalist. They spoke about going for a refuel (TWO times in 15 min.) and afyer they showed empty streets of Oakland. But I didn't accept that eighter... I fought through twitter and all my messages (i think about one hundred or more) appeared on there own website! It was very nice to see that they didn't liked it and started to film emptystreets! LOL, they are simply corrupt and I saw the prove! My twitteraccount @philip_far_away Stay strong and the first real wallstreet arrest is made bytheway A financial manager Grupta is arrested for some kind of finacial fraud! 10 milj. dollar bail! CU All Stay strong Stay dedicated! Philip...

There is so much to say after so many years of oppression. I feel that this the thought behind the concept of 'we are the 99%'- we can't exclued anyone from the forum- there is too much to say and we have waited too long, wanting to be heard, so we try to say it all at once. Exciting, isn't it? Let's keep our voices out there for the benefit of everyone.

When persistent scientifically based peer reviewed hard evidence is published on the web for several years and yet never appears in the news media then surely that is clearly indicates oppression.

The first casualty when a nation suffers oppression is gross deliberate distortion of information closely followed by organised suppression of factual and vital counter information. All oppression follows these lines. Clearly we have been subjugated to the the devious agenda of war.

Over a million lives have been lost as a result.

It is not a small and insignificant matter and will haunt America long after the perpetrators have made off with their booty.

I respect your opinion. but cannot but hold that this nation is not oppressed.

There are million out their suffering with the effects of corporate and govt enacted injustices which are plain to see BUT little action to redress the poverty, unemployment, shrinking access to education, censorship of media, Govt initiated sponsorship of fear, demonization of whistle blowers and social reform, state backed destruction of the environment, and a raft of other destructive actions that have divided the nation from a fair and democratic hope.

Only 48% vote. Disillusionment and repression of the democratic system by organised megabux have taken over and that is what OWS is fighting.

The oppression is such that there is not other way for voice to be heard.

The will and the power of the people cannot be stopped by a few. The more people get invovled the better. If you work take the day off. If you don't work join in the marches. But most important let your voices be heard and your numbers be shown.

Don't dare speak of government. This crowd is all for bigger government, more government programs, more handouts, more welfare state. Notice they wont criticize wasteful government spending even though the damage dwarfs corporate greed by a longshot.

Why do people always group occupiers together, we all have similar and different views at the same time. Im a conservative, not Republican or Democrat by any means, simply independent and conservative though the ows gets a liberal label. I want smaller government, i want programs to help those truly in need, but tighter regulations on to whom and for how long they are handed out. Ya cant group us all and I know their are many occupiers like myself and many with varying opinions. OWS is all of us having a voice, hoping for a future where the peoples vote and voices count for each and every decision our governing officials make that effect each and every Americans lives. That's my take on it anyway....to each his own. Support OWS or not, let your voice be heard. Go democracy!

There are so many assumptions because OWS refuses to create a message. Period.

So. Those of us wondering what this is really all about... well... we wonder.

There's a lot of information to go on here, you know. And a lot of it is extremely liberal... and socialist. I am liberal, to an extent, but I am not a socialist.

And you are a "group". No matter how disconnected you may seem... you are all "Occupiers" and therefore, you are all share in each other's triumphs and suffer in each other's failures.

If you want to stop being misunderstood, work to create a common theme in this movement. Because if someone else does it for you (and eventually, someone will) you might just find yourself neck deep in something you want nothing to do with.