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Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Not going to happen. The Miami Fusion failed there once. If Florida gets another team, it will be based on an owner's ability to show that there is local support for the team. I'd say right now MLS powers that be are monitoring the progress of the Tampa Bay Rowdies and Ft. Lauderdale Strikers in the NASL. Both teams are working to build local support for their teams in hoping to one day get a bid to join the MLS, similar to how Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal got in. The Strikers might even have a soccer specific stadium in the works. Both cities also had a modicum of success in the original NASL. Miami proper has never shown the ability to support soccer and has difficulty showing support for teams it already has outside of the NFL and NBA.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Not going to happen. The Miami Fusion failed there once. If Florida gets another team, it will be based on an owner's ability to show that there is local support for the team. I'd say right now MLS powers that be are monitoring the progress of the Tampa Bay Rowdies and Ft. Lauderdale Strikers in the NASL. Both teams are working to build local support for their teams in hoping to one day get a bid to join the MLS, similar to how Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal got in. The Strikers might even have a soccer specific stadium in the works. Both cities also had a modicum of success in the original NASL. Miami proper has never shown the ability to support soccer and has difficulty showing support for teams it already has outside of the NFL and NBA.

Agreed it isn't going to happen. My money is on Orlando City eventually being an MLS team though.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Not going to happen. The Miami Fusion failed there once. If Florida gets another team, it will be based on an owner's ability to show that there is local support for the team. I'd say right now MLS powers that be are monitoring the progress of the Tampa Bay Rowdies and Ft. Lauderdale Strikers in the NASL. Both teams are working to build local support for their teams in hoping to one day get a bid to join the MLS, similar to how Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal got in. The Strikers might even have a soccer specific stadium in the works. Both cities also had a modicum of success in the original NASL. Miami proper has never shown the ability to support soccer and has difficulty showing support for teams it already has outside of the NFL and NBA.

The Tampa Bay Mutiny also failed, and Tampa (in general) doesn't really support it's current pro teams -- the Bucs haven't drawn since the mid-2000s and the Rays struggle even when the team is playing well.

I wouldn't do Florida at all, to be honest, but that's apparently where Beckham wants to put his franchise that he's been promised.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

The Tampa Bay Mutiny also failed, and Tampa (in general) doesn't really support it's current pro teams -- the Bucs haven't drawn since the mid-2000s and the Rays struggle even when the team is playing well.

I wouldn't do Florida at all, to be honest, but that's apparently where Beckham wants to put his franchise that he's been promised.

I believe the lack of support issue and the failures of the Mutiny and Fusion are exactly why the MLS is reluctant to put soccer back in Florida without fan support. The owners of the Strikers have been trying to get a MLS team for Miami for years and have been turned down every time. And they run the Copa America tournament, so they have experience with big time soccer. They actually started their NASL team in Miami, but moved to Ft. Lauderdale because of the lack of support in Miami proper.

If Beckham had been wise, he would have thrown his lot in with the group that got the second NYC team. That was really the only market the MLS has looked at recently that didn't have a ready-made fan support group in place. All other recent expansion has been to cities where prospective owners could show existing fan organizations who would be ready to pony up for season tickets.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

I'd add that personally, I'd like to see the Rowdies and Strikers make it back to top flight US soccer because 1) I played for teams called the Rowdies and Strikers in youth soccer in the '80s, and 2) they have sweet jerseys from the original NASL.

However, if the MLS wants a team in the Southeast and sticks to their guns on the fan support and soccer specific stadium issue, I think Atlanta, Orlando, and Carolina have a leg up on Miami and Tampa. The only thing Miami has going is that Beckham likes it, and if that's the reason for putting a team there, it will be a big mistake.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

They're going to eventually need to go somewhere in the SE -- with the high rate of population growth, the league needs to tap into the region if it wants to continue growing in profile.

I'd probably target Atlanta, Charlotte or Orlando.

The other interesting question is at what point does the MLS get "too big" -- most other national leagues have under 20 teams competing in their top flight. Is it possible for MLS to grow to 30 or 30+ teams and still be successful?

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

They're going to eventually need to go somewhere in the SE -- with the high rate of population growth, the league needs to tap into the region if it wants to continue growing in profile.

I'd probably target Atlanta, Charlotte or Orlando.

The other interesting question is at what point does the MLS get "too big" -- most other national leagues have under 20 teams competing in their top flight. Is it possible for MLS to grow to 30 or 30+ teams and still be successful?

Atlanta and Charlotte have a history of supporting teams at the lower levels. I think Orlando is in the mix because local fans are organizing support.

I'd say 30 teams is too big, but then the MLS structure of conferences might be flexible enough to handle it. Other leagues are single table and 30 teams would be too unwieldy. I'dlike to see the MLS work more to promote the lower tiers. An Ial structure might be 20-24 teams at MLS and 20 teams at tier 2, where cities like Cincinnati and Cleveland might be better suited.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Atlanta and Charlotte have a history of supporting teams at the lower levels. I think Orlando is in the mix because local fans are organizing support.

I'd say 30 teams is too big, but then the MLS structure of conferences might be flexible enough to handle it. Other leagues are single table and 30 teams would be too unwieldy. I'dlike to see the MLS work more to promote the lower tiers. An Ial structure might be 20-24 teams at MLS and 20 teams at tier 2, where cities like Cincinnati and Cleveland might be better suited.

The problem with Cincinnati and Cleveland (or Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc.) is that, historically, minor league sports have been tough-sells in major league towns. There's like this instinctive thing that enters the DNA of a city when they have a professional sports team (especially an NFL or an MLB team, in particular) that causes the local sports fans to immediately turn their nose up at teams that aren't playing for championships at the highest level.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

The problem with Cincinnati and Cleveland (or Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc.) is that, historically, minor league sports have been tough-sells in major league towns. There's like this instinctive thing that enters the DNA of a city when they have a professional sports team (especially an NFL or an MLB team, in particular) that causes the local sports fans to immediately turn their nose up at teams that aren't playing for championships at the highest level.

That mindset is changing with the younger generations. Soccer also has the benefit of open cup tournaments, where teams from all levels play each other. So even if, say Cincinnati or Cleveland were to play in a different level than Columbus, they could still meet in the US Open Cup. If the second tier got stable and popular enough, you might even see some kind of limited promotion and relegation between the top two tiers. Might put a fire under Chivas and New England to improve their teams. But it's going to require second tier that is stable enough to show top tier owners that they won't lose out on the value of their team if they get relegated. I think it's going to require a decade or two of positive growth.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

The other interesting question is at what point does the MLS get "too big" -- most other national leagues have under 20 teams competing in their top flight. Is it possible for MLS to grow to 30 or 30+ teams and still be successful?

Most other national leagues are in countries considerably smaller than the United States (and Canada).

Re: USMNT: The March to Brazil - World Cup 2014

Originally Posted by reds1869

Most other national leagues are in countries considerably smaller than the United States (and Canada).

Good point. And in many European countries, attendance is surprisingly low for the league as a whole. Most countries other than the EPL and the Bundesliga have a few top teams with big attendance numbers, but most other teams draw very low numbers compared to what we're used to in the US. I looked up the attendance numbers for 2012, and average attendance for MLS games was 18,807. Compare that to France's Ligue 1 @ 18, 869 and the Netherlands' Eredivisie @ 19, 538. Just for the hell of it, NHL was at 17, 544 and the NBA was 17, 274. Of course, those leagues generate more revenues, but I'd guess that those mostly come from having much better local and national TV deals. But actual attendance for MLS has been growing, whereas it's mostly flat for those other leagues.

Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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