Why Creationists Say There’s No Proof

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64 Responses to “Why Creationists Say There’s No Proof”

Steve – All of that is moot anyway because he’s using physics (incorrectly) to descredit biology. Talking about the “iron line” to disprove evolution makes about as much sense as using the bible to disprove… oh, wait… nevermind.

Sorry, this is sort of a hot button issue for me. I find the whole notion of nuclear synthesis to be one of the most beautifully elegant components of modern cosmology. The fact that it plays right into radiometric dating (and many other powerful pieces of evidence for a naturalistic origin of the universe) only makes the picture clearer as far as I’m concerned.

Beyond your (humorous and correct) observation, I’ll point out that “Prove This Wrong” is almost certainty one of the typical post and run fundie kooks. He’s gone never to come back, and arguing with his ilk is a waste of electrons.

It’s beneficial to refute their claims, even though the original poster will never see it. Other people will read it and wonder. I had never heard of the iron line. I surprised that they’re still able to come up with claims I haven’t heard yet.

It doesn’t surprise me so much. When everything they claim is thoroughly refuted by even lay-people such as myself, out of necessity they have to find something new that might trip some of us up for a few minutes since it’s outside our sphere of knowledge. Thankfully, in this case, we had Another Steve to quickly and succinctly discredit the bogus garbage spewed forth by the fundie. My dumb joke didn’t contribute anything to the argument, but it felt good to post it, never-the-less. 😀

Hi, all – I’ve been gone awhile (busy with school). It’s good to be back! It’s especially good to see the fine, well-thought-out arguments made for reason and science by Ron, Brian, Parrotlover, Sarah and others. And it always gets my fingers itching to type when I read the jaw-droppingly moronic fundie posts!

For instance, this “Zandovise”. Better spelling and punctuation than some fundies, but still – WTF?? “Organic cell particles spin to the left, while inorganic particles spin to the right” – ?!!? Okay, I just finished a majors Biology course (2 years of the subject), and nowhere did I ever hear of, much less see, any spinning “cell particles”. Organelles of cells do move around in the cytoplasm (visibly) but by no stretch of the imagination can they be said to spin. No electron microscopy that I’m aware of has revealed any spinning particles in any cell. Are you talking about ATPase in the electron transport chain, Zandovise? It’s a rotary “motor” that uses the hydrogen ion gradient in the mitochondrial matrix to power ATP production. Or maybe you’re talking about electrons. Well, electrons don’t really “orbit” the atomic nucleus – it’s more of a cloud – so they’re not “spinning”. I’m assuming everyone who’s taken inorganic chemistry or elementary physics knows that. Real courses from real schools, that is – not creationist home-school classes or Liberty University crap.

Sorry about the diatribe – I just couldn’t resist. I just can’t get over what passes for “education” in some circles these days.

To add to the above – my husband has just informed me that – since nuclear fusion could not have formed the heavier elements, and supernovae are just optical illusions misinterpreted by astronomers and physicists – all the heavier elements beyond Fe must have been farted out of the ass of God. This is the only explanation, according to the Flip Wilson Church of What’s Happening Now. Word.

Not only are supernovae optical illusions, they are also: radio, infrared, ultraviolet, X-ray, and gamma-ray illusions as well. What a clever god the fundies worship!

Or, maybe the devil makes supernovae to make us doubt our faith.

When I talk to fundies, I’m frequently reminded of the Charlie Brown comic where his kite is up in the tree, and he’s got his head down against it’s trunk. The thought bubble over his head is filled with scribbling.

And thus it is that with cunning evil Satan tried to destroy the faith of the faithful and seduce the holy man into godless deeds, and he destroyed the stars also.
—Hypotheticallenisis 1:16

Wow, if the devil creating supernovae isn’t even mentioned in the Bible, I guess it shrinks into nothingness compared to the fact that he is trying to rob our faith from us, he manages so well! I’m convinced now! The Bible is the only truth!

On a less sarcastic note, Sue Blue:

I think Zandovise refers to the right-handedness (they are right-, not left-handed) in the helical structure of the chain of amino-acids a protein consists of (the protein’s secondary structure, the alpha-helix). Pretty weird he calls that an ‘orbit’ because it’s actually more like a spiral, but it’s the only logical explanation I can find.

Now, I don’t know enough about the advantages of right versus left-handed proteins, but I think the fact that organic molecules (except for bacteria apparently) solely consist of the right-handed ones is a pretty neat example of evolution. If you want your cell to function properly you don’t want anything from outside messing it up, so it’s logically to your advantage to have a clear distinction between particles that belong to the cell and particles that don’t. Therefore, any cell that had less of such a distinction, by having more relatively much left-handed particles and only a little bit more right-handed ones, are easily screwed by a cut in the membrane, and they won’t end up being selected by nature. In the end, because micro-evolution CAN be extended to macro-evolution, you only have right-handed molecules left, pardon the pun.

It’s only logical.

(Marvel at my cunningness, I have tricked the fundies by spouting a fake Bible verse into seeing the evidence for evolution! Mwuhahaha!)

While we’re talking about divine inspiration, did you know that spiritual experiences can be induced by Temporal Lobe Epilepsy? It somehow relates to the molecule dimethyltreptamine, which has been shown to give you a divine feel an hallucinations.

So there’s too probable explanations for Jesus’ behavior around now: he either outrightly lied or he had a disease in his head.

jesus was a lucky bastard. i had (or have since it could recur at any time despite being seizure free for 20 years) temporal lobe complex partial seizures. it was frightening as hell. so traumatic were my hallucinations that it scared me from ever doing drugs ever (not a bad thing) because i was worried about having another seizurific bad trip!

i can buy that explanation thoguh. if i was born 100 years ago, i would have been thought to be possessed. the experience is very real…

Bart – you could be right about Zandovise’s intent with the “spin” thing, but he’s too vague and just comes off as crazy. It’s my understanding that the alpha helix, the beta-pleated sheet, as well as the tertiary and quaternary protein structures, are the result of the molecular bond angles between the individual amino acids, not any form of magical intervention like Zandovise is implying. Then there’s the whole “isn’t it wonderful that this system (whatever the system may be) just happens to work out so well?” line of thinking. I’m reminded of a biology teacher of mine who, at the end of one class, chirped out something about “it’s just so cool that our planet just happens to have the right conditions for life”. I cringed, but said “Couldn’t it just be that life evolved to fit the conditions, not the other way around?”

PL – that must have been scary! I once saw eyes staring out at me from way up in a tree (human eyes) at an impossible angle. Scared the hell out of me; I thought it had to be some sort of supernatural monster. Turned out it was just an optical illusion caused by the pattern of light and leaves, but it had me going for awhile. I can’t imagine how scary it would be to suffer from hallucinations – especially if you don’t know they are hallucinations.

Some of my family are Seventh-Day Adventists. The Adventists’ founder was a woman, Ellen G. White, who was whacked on the head by a rock as a child, spent time in a coma, and claimed to have visions of Christ after she recovered. These days she would have been diagnosed with brain damage, but back in the 1840s, it was chalked up to the divine – and there you are.

sorry to be a spelling nazi, but it’s dimethyltryptamine , not dimethyltreptamine.

DMT, for short. The stuff occurs naturally in all kinds of organic material, as well as in the brain in a smallish amount. It doesn’t take much of this stuff to induce strong hallucinations, and in reality, it’s the cause of near death experiences. It can be injected or smoked, and the experience is reported to be something like “load universe into cannon, aim at brain, fire”

If we could get over our stupid puritanical drug law BS, and actually research psychedelics and other psychoactive substances, we might actually unlock many secrets of the brain and neurochemistry. And maybe, finally, remove the God complex from our species for good.