I just joined this site, and m very relived to find that there can still be civil debate. I want to start by saying that yes I am a liberal, but have some conservative views as well. I am so sick of seeing this country being taken hostage by hateful fear-mongers.Yes there is intolerance on both sides, but from my research, and from watching all the different party"s and their rally's I find that most of the hate, intolerance, misinformation, ignorance, and fear-mongering have been coming from the new conservative party. I call it the new conservative party, because there was a time when conservatives would work with liberals, understand that together things get done.

I have tried to join in on debates with conservatives trying to understand what their logic is, and all I have been met with is hate, and ignorance. I hope that here I can find some answers, and maybe even have an open dialog with some conservative brothers and sisters.See the thing is that I think is being lost in all this mess is the fact that this country is not red states and blue states, but the united states. Honestly think about it, we're not conservatives, or liberals, but Americans first.

Here are a few things I have tried to understand, and have yet to get answers with facts to prove them.

1. Conservatives keep saying that the "libtards/democraps" as they call us, defended slavery, and founded one of the worse hate groups in America. Now the fact is, they are only half right. Democrats did defend slavery, and yes it was democrats who were the founders of the KKK. What conservatives do not understand is that back then Democrats where the conservative right-wing party. Lincoln, the majority of the republican party were liberals.

2. I don't think conservatives understand what conservatism means. Conservatives by nature do not want change, do not want progress, they are set in their ways and want to conserve traditions. The moment a conservative excepts certain facts, like slavery being wrong, civil rights being a fundamental right for everyone, they then cease to be conservatives, but the very nature of the definition.

3. Conservative vs Liberal: This is something I have started to see over the past few years. And that is the rising hate in the conservative party, and I would challenge anyone to show me any videos of liberals acting this way, but you have hate groups forming to battle liberals, like the Tea party, and yes they're a hate group, they can't tell you what part of a bill they do not agree with, just that it's wrong, they have showed signs, chants, and a number of other hateful speech against not only our PotUS, but anyone who doesn't agree with them. Here are just 2 videos out of the hundreds to show this, now there is no reason for this, nobody can explain this level of hate and be taken seriously.

These are just a few things I would love to get answered, the last one would be this whole gun control debate, to be honest I would love and welcome any conservative who can give me factual proof showing how our rights are being taken away, or our rights being infringed upon.

Thank you for your time.

"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 7:35:31 PM, Izayah003 wrote:3. Conservative vs Liberal: This is something I have started to see over the past few years. And that is the rising hate in the conservative party, and I would challenge anyone to show me any videos of liberals acting this way, but you have hate groups forming to battle liberals, like the Tea party, and yes they're a hate group, they can't tell you what part of a bill they do not agree with, just that it's wrong, they have showed signs, chants, and a number of other hateful speech against not only our PotUS, but anyone who doesn't agree with them. Here are just 2 videos out of the hundreds to show this, now there is no reason for this, nobody can explain this level of hate and be taken seriously.

That's anecdotal evidence, the actions of a few in no way reflects upon the entire movement. The tea party movement as it started was a good movement, one based on a limited Constitutional government, a view which many Americans hold and a view which the country was founded on.Youtube videos in themselves do not constitute an argument nor do they allow you to condemn the entire movement.If all you really want is to post back and forth videos of people on the left and the right behaving poorly then have at it, but a better use of time would be arguing their positions on the issues and where the balance of power in our republic should be. That is between the people, the states and the fed.

"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 7:35:31 PM, Izayah003 wrote:3. Conservative vs Liberal: This is something I have started to see over the past few years. And that is the rising hate in the conservative party, and I would challenge anyone to show me any videos of liberals acting this way, but you have hate groups forming to battle liberals, like the Tea party, and yes they're a hate group, they can't tell you what part of a bill they do not agree with, just that it's wrong, they have showed signs, chants, and a number of other hateful speech against not only our PotUS, but anyone who doesn't agree with them. Here are just 2 videos out of the hundreds to show this, now there is no reason for this, nobody can explain this level of hate and be taken seriously.

That's anecdotal evidence, the actions of a few in no way reflects upon the entire movement. The tea party movement as it started was a good movement, one based on a limited Constitutional government, a view which many Americans hold and a view which the country was founded on.Youtube videos in themselves do not constitute an argument nor do they allow you to condemn the entire movement.If all you really want is to post back and forth videos of people on the left and the right behaving poorly then have at it, but a better use of time would be arguing their positions on the issues and where the balance of power in our republic should be. That is between the people, the states and the fed.

Very well said my friend. point well taken, so i will not just restrict myself to just YouTube videos, this was just an example. You are correct, a few people should not condemn a whole group, so let's shed the videos of the few and i will just broaden my point.

read their views, the people's comments, but more importantly do some fact checking as well. You will find the video i linked earlier isn't just a few people who think this way, but the majority of supporters. So my point still stands.

"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 8:11:30 PM, Izayah003 wrote:read their views, the people's comments, but more importantly do some fact checking as well. You will find the video i linked earlier isn't just a few people who think this way, but the majority of supporters. So my point still stands.

That's the problem with a movement like the tea party, it's too broad and undefinable. You can find whoever saying whatever, local tea party groups saying different things from eachother. Members expressing different views but none of whom speak for the movement as a whole. The movement as a whole only has one unifying message, that is that of a smaller government. The tea party is mainly a part of the Republican party that was fed up with Republicans acting as statists more than Constitutionalists. The Neo-cons and Religious right have tried to coop the large force that is the tea party but has been largely unsuccessful, that proof by Mitt Romney failing to ever gain the enthusiasm of his Republican base. Also proof was Rand Paul, a libertarian Republican, gaining office despite opposition by the establishment Republican party.As I said, you can hurl claims of racism, bigotry and hypocrisy at the movement but by the nature of the movement itself the claims don't do anything but unify the Right against those making the accusations.The only thing you can say for sure about what the Tea Party stands for is that of a smaller government held accountable and restrained by the Constitution.

"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 8:11:30 PM, Izayah003 wrote:read their views, the people's comments, but more importantly do some fact checking as well. You will find the video i linked earlier isn't just a few people who think this way, but the majority of supporters. So my point still stands.

That's the problem with a movement like the tea party, it's too broad and undefinable. You can find whoever saying whatever, local tea party groups saying different things from eachother. Members expressing different views but none of whom speak for the movement as a whole. The movement as a whole only has one unifying message, that is that of a smaller government. The tea party is mainly a part of the Republican party that was fed up with Republicans acting as statists more than Constitutionalists. The Neo-cons and Religious right have tried to coop the large force that is the tea party but has been largely unsuccessful, that proof by Mitt Romney failing to ever gain the enthusiasm of his Republican base. Also proof was Rand Paul, a libertarian Republican, gaining office despite opposition by the establishment Republican party.As I said, you can hurl claims of racism, bigotry and hypocrisy at the movement but by the nature of the movement itself the claims don't do anything but unify the Right against those making the accusations.The only thing you can say for sure about what the Tea Party stands for is that of a smaller government held accountable and restrained by the Constitution.

Very true, but as you know, when you have vast amounts of people acting like this, without the base trying to stop them, in time the base starts to look like these people. I think come mid-terms, the tea party people will be out, and democrats will take the house again. i don't think that because I'm a liberal, but after this last election it shows that people are tired of the GOP.

"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln

Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Didnt Ann Coulter say that McCains daughter should be killed?

It doesn't count. That is self-hate coming from within the republicans own camp.

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Didnt Ann Coulter say that McCains daughter should be killed?

Link? Maybe. Of course there are hateful people from both groups. The question is though which one is more hateful towards one another.

At 4/11/2013 8:44:47 PM, Izayah003 wrote:Very true, but as you know, when you have vast amounts of people acting like this, without the base trying to stop them, in time the base starts to look like these people. I think come mid-terms, the tea party people will be out, and democrats will take the house again. i don't think that because I'm a liberal, but after this last election it shows that people are tired of the GOP.

The midterms will be the real test, I think it swing even more to the right than the last mid term, I don't think conservative/libertarian/tea party wing of the Republican party will be any less vocal.I highly doubt Democrats will turn out any more voters than they did in 2010, Simple fact is that a lot of straight ticket voters don't care enough to go vote when Obama isn't on the ticket.

"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Really? so now protesting is Hate marches? Like what was said about the Tea party, which i have now agreed with, the same can be said for the Occupy, which wasn't just a liberal movement. the actions a very small few, can't be viewed as liberal hate.

As for Olberman, have you ever watched a few of those, he gave reasons (valid reasons) for putting them on the list, not if you think that is hate then my friend you must be forgetting Glenn "I see Nazi's in my sleep" Beck

"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln

MSNBC is more biased than FOX now , they see the ratings and try to out FOX FOX. FOX still has some relatively balanced daytime news reporting with people like Shep Smith. MSNBC has said hell to that and now their entire lineup is left wing talking heads.

"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Really? so now protesting is Hate marches? Like what was said about the Tea party, which i have now agreed with, the same can be said for the Occupy, which wasn't just a liberal movement. the actions a very small few, can't be viewed as liberal hate.

Protesting isn't. Disrupting trade, sh1tting on cars, occupying land that isn't yours and ruining, and blocking traffic for people to get to their destination is.

There's a huge difference in how occupiers and tea partiers present themselves.

As for Olberman, have you ever watched a few of those, he gave reasons (valid reasons) for putting them on the list, not if you think that is hate then my friend you must be forgetting Glenn "I see Nazi's in my sleep" Beck

I find it amusing that u really can't see ur own hypocricy here. When the right does it, they're being hateful. When the left does it, they're using reason to justify their hate. Pathetic.

As for Olberman, have you ever watched a few of those, he gave reasons (valid reasons) for putting them on the list, not if you think that is hate then my friend you must be forgetting Glenn "I see Nazi's in my sleep" Beck

I find it amusing that u really can't see ur own hypocricy here. When the right does it, they're being hateful. When the left does it, they're using reason to justify their hate. Pathetic.

It's the nature of the emotion. Everyone convinces themselves that their hatred is justified, and it's the first step towards justifying most atrocities.

"I thought about the Paschal Candle. Wounded in its wax, wounded in its wick, wounded in its light, having the Passion of Christ in it and having therefore the woundedness of the world in it, it was there at our cradle, going before us and guiding us in time, and now again, there it is at our coffin, going before us and guiding us into eternity."
- John Moriarty -

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Really? so now protesting is Hate marches? Like what was said about the Tea party, which i have now agreed with, the same can be said for the Occupy, which wasn't just a liberal movement. the actions a very small few, can't be viewed as liberal hate.

Protesting isn't. Disrupting trade, sh1tting on cars, occupying land that isn't yours and ruining, and blocking traffic for people to get to their destination is.

There's a huge difference in how occupiers and tea partiers present themselves.

As for Olberman, have you ever watched a few of those, he gave reasons (valid reasons) for putting them on the list, not if you think that is hate then my friend you must be forgetting Glenn "I see Nazi's in my sleep" Beck

I find it amusing that u really can't see ur own hypocrisy here. When the right does it, they're being hateful. When the left does it, they're using reason to justify their hate. Pathetic.

There isn't anything hypocritical about that comment me friend. The big difference is when facts are used to support your claim, it is not hate, when BS rhetoric is all you have to back your claim, it is. Now to prove my point, show me one of Olbermans Worst persons, and then tell me how he was not factually accurate. i will show you 10x that amount on how people like the Tea party and conservatives have not been.

"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." - Abraham Lincoln

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

It was also quite often peaceful--and often it was on land that was allegedly for public use. That was one of the reasons why there was a big fuss about the evictions.

As far as defecating on police cars, I would point out that the police regularly reacted with violence or otherwise inappropriate conduct towards Occupy protestors, even peaceful ones. If you want citations, I'll deliver. How about these for starters:

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Really? so now protesting is Hate marches? Like what was said about the Tea party, which i have now agreed with, the same can be said for the Occupy, which wasn't just a liberal movement. the actions a very small few, can't be viewed as liberal hate.

Protesting isn't. Disrupting trade, sh1tting on cars, occupying land that isn't yours and ruining, and blocking traffic for people to get to their destination is.

There's a huge difference in how occupiers and tea partiers present themselves.

As for Olberman, have you ever watched a few of those, he gave reasons (valid reasons) for putting them on the list, not if you think that is hate then my friend you must be forgetting Glenn "I see Nazi's in my sleep" Beck

I find it amusing that u really can't see ur own hypocrisy here. When the right does it, they're being hateful. When the left does it, they're using reason to justify their hate. Pathetic.

There isn't anything hypocritical about that comment me friend. The big difference is when facts are used to support your claim, it is not hate, when BS rhetoric is all you have to back your claim, it is. Now to prove my point, show me one of Olbermans Worst persons, and then tell me how he was not factually accurate. i will show you 10x that amount on how people like the Tea party and conservatives have not been.

Not just this country. The US has historically been more civil than other countries, when it comes to ideological tolerance.On the floor of the British House of Commons there are two red lines. The distance between each line is 2 sword lengths, because sword fights use to break out on the floor.

"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

It was also quite often peaceful--and often it was on land that was allegedly for public use. That was one of the reasons why there was a big fuss about the evictions.

Peaceful, yes. But they were hypocritical and ignorant in demanding public space to "occupy" by stating they have a right to it.

As far as defecating on police cars, I would point out that the police regularly reacted with violence or otherwise inappropriate conduct towards Occupy protestors, even peaceful ones. If you want citations, I'll deliver. How about these for starters:

I didn't read/watch them, but often I side with the police on the videos I have seen.

The officer that casually sprayed while walking video that was so prevalent, was justified. Notice, he only sprayed those who were on the sidewalk.

There was the video of the cop who punched some woman in the face, but that was after she put her hand on him while he was arresting some dude who jumped the railing (I think he was dancing on it to be an a$$, then fell).

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

As far as fvck Bush, I would say that "Obama = Hitler" is about the same. And Obama is getting about the same number of death threats as Clinton and Bush (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...).

I find much of this to be tit-for-tat, except one group willfully overlooks the actions of their group. Typical human behavior (self-serving bias, I think).

I would only say that the left are more hateful to opposition than the right, simply because I think the left are more emotional than the right. But, one side being worse than another is ultimately irrelevant, as both sides have major flaws in their followers.

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:Are you serious with the accusations that conservatives are more hateful then liberals?

The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

Or take the protesting of Bush. There were plenty of "fvck Bush" and "Kill Bush" posters.

Hell, Keith Olberman has his "Worst person in the world" segment. How much more hateful can u get.

Really? so now protesting is Hate marches? Like what was said about the Tea party, which i have now agreed with, the same can be said for the Occupy, which wasn't just a liberal movement. the actions a very small few, can't be viewed as liberal hate.

As for Olberman, have you ever watched a few of those, he gave reasons (valid reasons) for putting them on the list, not if you think that is hate then my friend you must be forgetting Glenn "I see Nazi's in my sleep" Beck

To help prove this hypocrisy, notice how you site Glenn Beck. People do; he can be kind of crazy.

Why is this hypocritical?Because no one cared about Mr. Beck when he had only a radio show, nor when he was on CNN Headline News (he even filled in for Larry King once or twice). People only cared about him when he started on Fox News. Then and only then did my collegues at work start talking about him. Same goes for John Stewart, Mike Papantonio (Ring of Fire), and Media Matters.

Glenn Beck, while on CNN, aired an expose on Muslims (I don't remember much of this, but I remember showing a clip of a soap opera where the Jew, natuarally the villian, needed the eyes of children for his Matzo soup).

After this, he hired a security team. No one talked about it, anywhere that I heard. No one seemed to deem the expose as hate-filled or conspiretorial. It wasn't until he got that chalkboard at Fox that people started listening to him...

At 4/11/2013 8:50:50 PM, darkkermit wrote:The occupy movement was quite violent in nature. Hence why its called "occupy". They basically occupied land that was not there's and trashed it. There were cases in which occupy movements disrupted ports, thus directly harming trade. You can also find pictures of occupiers taking dumps on police cars. There was also a youtube video of a bunch of occupiers blocking the entrance for a conservative blog conference.

It was also quite often peaceful--and often it was on land that was allegedly for public use. That was one of the reasons why there was a big fuss about the evictions.

Peaceful, yes. But they were hypocritical and ignorant in demanding public space to "occupy" by stating they have a right to it.

How is it hypocritical to occupy a public area? How is it ignorant?

As far as defecating on police cars, I would point out that the police regularly reacted with violence or otherwise inappropriate conduct towards Occupy protestors, even peaceful ones. If you want citations, I'll deliver. How about these for starters:

I didn't read/watch them, but often I side with the police on the videos I have seen.

You side with the police in such videos? Why?

The officer that casually sprayed while walking video that was so prevalent, was justified. Notice, he only sprayed those who were on the sidewalk.

So it's justified to spray someone with police-grade pepper spray (which basically makes your skin feel like it's melting, especially if it's in the eyes)for blocking a sidewalk? Civil disobedience does not justify that kind of force. The same with how they treated a professor and a student at Berkeley (https://www.baycitizen.org...).

You do not beat and pepper spray people engaged in civil disobedience. It was completely unethical when done to the Civil Rights movement, and it is unethical now.

There was the video of the cop who punched some woman in the face, but that was after she put her hand on him while he was arresting some dude who jumped the railing (I think he was dancing on it to be an a$$, then fell).

My my, she put her hand on him. Clearly worth being punched in the face.

I would only say that the left are more hateful to opposition than the right, simply because I think the left are more emotional than the right. But, one side being worse than another is ultimately irrelevant, as both sides have major flaws in their followers.

We're more emotional? I would disagree and say that both are about as emotional; they're just motivated by different emotions.

In Glenn Becks defense he seems to be coming around on some issues like gay marriage, I think he's still a war mongerer that thinks Muslims are trying to bring sharia law, but on social and fiscal issues he's getting there

"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln