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Bartemius Crouch, Jr.

(I'm quoting a great deal of book text here - more than I personally need - to give some continuity on the matter. If I quote it all, it might be confusing, although I'll delete it if you think I need to)

Originally Posted by Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Chapter 27
Padfoot Returns

"So I give you fair warning, Potter," Snape continued in a sorter and more dangerous voice, "pint-sized celebrity or not - if I catch you breaking into my office one more time -"

Harry stared back at Snape, determined not to blink or to look guilty. In truth, he hadn't stolen either of these things from Snape. Hermione had taken the boomslang skin back in their second year - they had needed it for the Polyjuice Potion - and while Snape had suspected Harry at the time, he had never been able to prove it. Dobby, of course, had stolen the gillyweed.

"I don't know what you're talking about," Harry lied coldly.

"You were out of bed on the night my office was broken into!" Snape hissed. "I know it. Potter! Now, Mad-Eye Moody might have joined your fan club, but I will not tolerate your behavior! One more nighttime stroll into my office, Potter, and you will pay!"

* * *

Chapter 28
The Madness of Mr. Crouch

Bagman hurried alongside Harry as they began to wend their way out of the growing maze. Harry had the feeling that Bagman was going to start offering to help him again, but just then, Krum tapped Harry on the shoulder.

Harry and Krum left the stadium together, but Krum did not set a course for the Durmstrang ship. Instead, he walked toward the forest.

"What're we going this way for?" said Harry as they passed Hagrid s cabin and the illuminated Beauxbatons carriage.

"Don't vont to be overheard," said Krum shortly.

When at last they had reached a quiet stretch of ground a short way from the Beauxbatons horses' paddock, Krum stopped in the shade of the trees and turned to face Harry.

"I vant to know," he said, glowering, "vot there is between you and Hermy-own-ninny."

Harry, who from Krum's secretive manner had expected something much more serious than this, stared up at Krum in amazement.

"Nothing," he said. But Krum glowered at him, and Harry, somehow struck anew by how tall Krum was, elaborated. "We're friends. She's not my girlfriend and she never has been. It's just that Skeeter woman making things up."

"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often," said Krum, looking suspiciously at Harry.

"Yeah," said Harry, "because were friends."

He couldn't quite believe he was having this conversation with Viktor Krum, the famous International Quidditch player. It was as though the eighteen-year-old Krum thought he. Harry, was an equal - a real rival -

"You haff never . . . you haff not..."

"No," said Harry very firmly.

Krum looked slightly happier. He stared at Harry for a few seconds, then said, "You fly very veil. I vos votching at the first task."

"Thanks," said Harry, grinning broadly and suddenly feeling much taller himself. "I saw you at the Quidditch World Cup. The Wronski Feint, you really -"

But something moved behind Krum in the trees, and Harry, who had some experience of the sort of thing that lurked in the forest, instinctively grabbed Krum's arm and pulled him around.

"Vot is it?"

Harry shook his head, staring at the place where he'd seen movement. He slipped his hand inside his robes, reaching for his wand.

Suddenly a man staggered out from behind a tall oak. For a moment, Harry didn't recognize him . . . then he realized it was Mr. Crouch.

He looked as though he had been traveling for days. The knees of his robes were ripped and bloody, his face scratched; he was unshaven and gray with exhaustion. His neat hair and mustache were both in need of a wash and a trim. His strange appearance, however, was nothing to the way he was behaving. Muttering and gesticulating, Mr. Crouch appeared to be talking to someone that he alone could see. He reminded Harry vividly of an old tramp he had seen once when out shopping with the Dursleys. That man too had been conversing wildly with thin air; Aunt Petunia had seized Dudley's hand and pulled him across the road to avoid him; Uncle Vernon had then treated the family to a long rant about what he would like to do with beggars and vagrants.

"Vosn't he a judge?" said Krum, staring at Mr. Crouch. "Isn't he vith your Ministry?"
Harry nodded, hesitated for a moment, then walked slowly toward Mr. Crouch, who did not look at him, but continued to talk to a nearby tree.

"... and when you've done that, Weatherby, send an owl to Dumbledore confirming the number of Durmstrang students who will be attending the tournament, Karkaroff has just sent word there will be twelve. . . ."

"Mr. Crouch?" said Harry cautiously.

"... and then send another owl to Madame Maxime, because she might want to up the number of students she's bringing, now Karkaroff's made it a round dozen ... do that, Weatherby, will you? Will you? Will..."

Mr. Crouch's eyes were bulging. He stood staring at the tree, muttering soundlessly at it. Then he staggered sideways and fell to his knees.

"Mr. Crouch?" Harry said loudly. "Are you all right?"

Crouch's eyes were rolling in his head. Harry looked around at Krum, who had followed him into the trees, and was looking down at Crouch in alarm.

"Get up, Mr. Crouch," said Harry loudly and clearly. "Get up, I'll take you to Dumbledore!"

Mr, Crouch's eyes rolled forward onto Harry.

"Who ... you?" he whispered.

"I'm a student at the school," said Harry, looking around at Krum for some help, but Krum was hanging back, looking extremely nervous.

"You're not... his?" whispered Crouch, his mouth sagging.

"No," said Harry, without the faintest idea what Crouch was talking about.

"Dumbledore's?"

"That's right," said Harry.

Crouch was pulling him closer; Harry tried to loosen Crouch's grip on his robes, but it was too powerful.

"Warn ... Dumbledore ..."

"I'll get Dumbledore if you let go of me," said Harry. "Just let go, Mr. Crouch, and I'll get him.. . ."

"Thank you, Weatherby, and when you have done that, I would like a cup of tea. My wife and son will be arriving shortly, we are attending a concert tonight with Mr. and Mrs. Fudge."

Crouch was now talking fluently to a tree again, and seemed completely unaware that Harry was there, which surprised Harry so much he didn't notice that Crouch had released him.

"Yes, my son has recently gained twelve O.W.L.S, most satisfactory, yes, thank you, yes, very proud indeed. Now, if you could bring me that memo from the Andorran Minister of Magic, I think I will have time to draft a response. ..."

"You stay here with him!" Harry said to Krum. "I'll get Dumbledore, I'll be quicker, I know where his office is -"

"He is mad," said Krum doubtfully, staring down at Crouch, who was still gabbling to the tree, apparently convinced it was Percy.

"Just stay with him," said Harry, starting to get up, but his movement seemed to trigger another abrupt change in Mr. Crouch, who seized him hard around the knees and pulled Harry back to the ground.

"I'll get Dumbledore if you let me go, Mr. Crouch!" said Harry. He looked furiously around at Krum. "Help me, will you?"

* * *

Chapter 30
The Pensieve

The dungeon dissolved again. When it had returned, Harry looked around. He and Dumbledore were still sitting beside Mr. Crouch, but the atmosphere could not have been more different. There was total silence, broken only by the dry sobs of a frail, wispy-looking witch in the seat next to Mr. Crouch. She was clutching a handkerchief to her mouth with trembling hands.

Harry looked up at Crouch and saw that he looked gaunter and grayer than ever before. A nerve was twitching in his temple.

"Bring them in," he said, and his voice echoed through the silent dungeon.

The door in the corner opened yet again. Six dementors entered this time, flanking a group of four people. Harry saw the people in the crowd turn to look up at Mr. Crouch. A few of them whispered to one another.

The dementors placed each of the four people in the four chairs with chained arms that now stood on the dungeon floor. There was a thickset man who stared blankly up at Crouch; a thinner and more nervous-looking man, whose eyes were darting around the crowd; a woman with thick, shining dark hair and heavily hooded eyes, who was sitting in the chained chair as though it were a throne; and a boy in his late teens, who looked nothing short of petrified. He was shivering, his straw-colored hair all over his face, his freckled skin milk-white. The wispy little witch beside Crouch began to rock backward and forward in her seat, whimpering into her handkerchief.

Crouch stood up. He looked down upon the four in front of him, and there was pure hatred in his face.

"You have been brought here before the Council of Magical Law," he said clearly, "so that we may pass judgment on you, for a crime so heinous -"

"- that we have rarely heard the like of it within this court," said Crouch, speaking more loudly, drowning out his son's voice.

"We have heard the evidence against you. The four of you stand accused of capturing an Auror - Frank Longbottom - and subjecting him to the Cruciatus Curse, believing him to have knowledge of the present whereabouts of your exiled master, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named -"

"Father, I didn't!" shrieked the boy in chains below. "I didn't, I swear it. Father, don't send me back to the dementors -"

"You are further accused," bellowed Mr. Crouch, "of using the Cruciatus Curse on Frank Longbottom's wife, when he would not give you information. You planned to restore He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named to power, and to resume the lives of violence you presumably led while he was strong. I now ask the jury -"

"Mother!" screamed the boy below, and the wispy little witch beside Crouch began to sob, rocking backward and forward. "Mother, stop him. Mother, I didn't do it, it wasn't me!"

"I now ask the jury," shouted Mr. Crouch, "to raise their hands if they believe, as I do, that these crimes deserve a life sentence in Azkaban!"

In unison, the witches and wizards along the right-hand side of the dungeon raised their hands. The crowd around the walls began to clap as it had for Bagman, their faces full of savage triumph. The boy began to scream.

The dementors were gliding back into the room. The boys' three companions rose quietly from their seats; the woman with the heavy-lidded eyes looked up at Crouch and called, "The Dark Lord will rise again, Crouch! Throw us into Azkaban; we will wait! He
will rise again and will come for us, he will reward us beyond any of his other supporters! We alone were faithful! We alone tried to find him!"

But the boy was trying to fight off the dementors, even though Harry could see their cold, draining power starting to affect him. The crowd was jeering, some of them on their feet, as the woman swept out of the dungeon, and the boy continued to struggle.

"I'm your son!" he screamed up at Crouch. "I'm your son!"

"You are no son of mine!" bellowed Mr. Crouch, his eyes bulging suddenly. "I have no son!"

The wispy witch beside him gave a great gasp and slumped in her seat. She had fainted. Crouch appeared not to have noticed.

"Take them away!" Crouch roared at the dementors, spit flying from his mouth. "Take them away, and may they rot there!"

"Father! Father, I wasn't involved! No! No! Father, please!"

"I think, Harry, it is time to return to my office," said a quiet voice in Harrys ear.

* * *

Chapter 36
The Parting of the Ways

"Voldemort has returned," Dumbledore repeated. "If you accept that fact straightaway. Fudge, and take the necessary measures, we may still be able to save the situation. The first and most essential step is to remove Azkaban from the control of the dementors -"

"Preposterous!" shouted Fudge again. "Remove the dementors? I'd be kicked out of office for suggesting it! Half of us only feel safe in our beds at night because we know the dementors are standing guard at Azkaban!"

"The rest of us sleep less soundly in our beds, Cornelius, knowing that you have put Lord Voldemort's most dangerous supporters in the care of creatures who will join him the instant he asks them!" said Dumbledore. "They will not remain loyal to you, Fudge! Voldemort can offer them much more scope for their powers and their pleasures than you can! With the dementors behind him, and his old supporters returned to him, you will be hard-pressed to stop him regaining the sort of power he had thirteen years ago!"

Fudge was opening and closing his mouth as though no words could express his outrage.

"The second step you must take - and at once," Dumbledore pressed on, "is to send envoys to the giants."

"Extend them the hand of friendship, now, before it is too late," said Dumbledore, "or Voldemort will persuade them, as he did before, that he alone among wizards will give them their rights and their freedom!"

"You - you cannot be serious!" Fudge gasped, shaking his head and retreating further from Dumbledore. "If the magical community got wind that I had approached the giants - people hate them, Dumbledore - end of my career -"

"You are blinded," said Dumbledore, his voice rising now, the aura of power around him palpable, his eyes blazing once more, "by the love of the office you hold, Cornelius! You place too much importance, and you always have done, on the so-called purity of blood! You fail to recognize that it matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be! Your dementor has just destroyed the last remaining member of a pure-blood family as old as any - and see what that man chose to make of his life! I tell you now- take the steps I have suggested, and you will be remembered, in office or out, as one of the bravest and greatest Ministers of Magic we have ever known. Fail to act - and history will remember you as the man who stepped aside and allowed Voldemort a second chance to destroy the world we have tried to rebuild!"

I was thinking about Barty Crouch, Jr the other day, while thinking about my Epic WIP O'Doom.

We don't know a great deal about him.

We know he was a pureblood (from Dumbledore's statement, and therefore that both of his parents were as well).

We know that he successfully disguised himself as a well-known retired Auror and was successfully able to pull this disguise off right under the nose of Albus Dumbledore, who had known Moody for many years and worked with the real Moody in the original Order of the Phoenix.

We know he broke into Snape's office and Snape's private stores of potions ingredients, which he was using to brew Polyjuice potion for himself.

We can probably assume that, for a change, Harry's assumption about Barty's age was probably reasonably accurate, making him 18 or 19 in late 1981/early 1982. (This would put his birth around 1961-1963).

We can infer, I think, from Bartemius Sr's statement about the twelve OWLs, that Barty Junior was a very bright student.

We can infer from that same statement and Barty's own behaviour that he was VERY ambitious.

I personally think that pulling off the disguise right under one of the most powerful wizards of all time took a *great* deal of cunning, and therefore I'd personally place him in Slytherin.

Originally Posted by The Sorting Hat

Harry's First Year

Or perhaps in Slytherin
You'll make your real friends,
Those cunning folks use any means
To achieve their ends.

* * *

Harry's Fourth Year

And power-hungry Slytherin
loved those of great ambition.

* * *

Harry's Fifth Year

Said Slytherin, "We'll teach just those
Whose ancestry's purest."

* * *

For instance, Slytherin
Took only pure-blood wizards
Of great cunning just like him.

What I'm wondering, and would like everyone's input on, is what house you think Crouch, Jr. was in. I maintain Slytherin.

I also would like to know how old you think he was - more specifically, how likely it is you feel that Snape actually had him as a student. Snape was teaching at Hogwarts by the time of Barty Crouch's trial - probably not MUCH before that. If Barty was still in school in 1981, when Snape started teaching, Snape would only have had him as a student if he took NEWT level Potions, which he certainly had the aptitude for if he actually did get 12 OWLs, and Slughorn didn't teach Polyjuice until 6th year (despite the fact that a question about the effects of Polyjuice is on the OWL . . . although to be fair it doesn't appear that Snape taught Polyjuice *at all* . . . )

Which house do you think Barty Sr. and Barty Junior's mother (Sr.'s wife) were in? I think Slytherin and Ravenclaw, in that order, and am just curious as to everyone else's thoughts on the matter.

I was thrilled to see the dates you were considering for Barty's birth. As I mentioned in the CR I have a fic in mind about him and for me he has to be born in 1961. I plan to have him attending Hogwarts with Regulus. So I'm glad there is some reasoning to back up this year.

Moving on, I also believe Barty was in Slytherin. I think it's the only thing that makes sense. Neither of his parents seem to have any connection to the Death Eaters, yet Barty somehow got involved. And it doesn't look like he was invovled in a small way. He was running around with the Lestranges, who seem to be rather highly regarded Death Eaters.

Considering his age, Barty was most likely not a Death Eater for a really long time. He probably had few chances to prove himself, yet he was with the Lestranges the night the Longbottoms were attacked. In case you don't know, I have wild theories regarding this night and Bella, but I'll do my best to overlook for the sake of this question as they really aren't relevent to Barty's relationship with Lestrange brothers. Anyway, I figure for Barty to be important enough to be recruited by the Lestranges, he must be highly regarded, and I believe that he was therefore introduced to the Death Eaters by someone who was highly regarded, most likely a Slytherin. And in order for him to be involved with Slytherins he was most likely one himself. Personally, I think Regulus brought him in.

Anyway, we need to hardly glance at Barty to see Slytherin traits. He showed ambition in all his involvement with the Death Eaters. He is clearly cunning enough to outwit Albus Dumbledore, although I wonder how difficult that truly is. He seems to make a lot of mistakes and other people tend to deal with the backlash of them. Again, I'm off topic.

So, yes, I think he was a Slytherin,

As for his parents. That's a little more challenging.

For his mother, we know one thing that she did. She took her son's place in Azkaban because she was dying. That action really does little to tell me which house she was in. That stunt shows traits from all four houses. You have to be intelligent to think up something like that. You have to be brave to go through with it. You have to loyal and loving to want to go through with it. And you have to be sly to get away with it.

*Shurgs* Seems more Gryfindor to me. I would put her there. It reminds me of Sirius.

For his father, well he is most certianly ambitious. Actually, I can't think of single act from him that wouldn't land him square in Slytherin, so I'll have to agree with you on him.

Oh and as for Snape teaching him. I don't think so. If Barty is Regulus age (or close to it) and Snape is Sirius' age, there would have to be an awfully large age gap between the two brothers for that to work. Sirius is only three years older than Reg, making Snape only about three years older than Barty. Also, Barty would be finished school before 1981.

There I am guessing this will be very confusing for you to read. I don't generally look up facts, although I have learned that it's best to do dates that way. Anyway, I tend to reason it out from what I know, so this might sound very strange. If it makes no sense, sorries, cm, feel free to pop by the CR and tell me I'm nuts. Good luck with your stroy.

As a whole, I never put much thought on Barty Jr. I think it is mostly because we knew him for too long as Moody.

Slytherin does make sense for the house he was in. His ambition seems to be his overwhelming characteristic. We know he doesn't have the courage of a typical Gryffindor because of the way he begged his father to get off. To me that scene shows the Slytherin characteristic to do whatever it takes to promote himself. We know he was smart because of the OWL statement from his father. That doesn't seem enough to be in Ravenclaw though. We also know that he was loyal, even when almost no other Death Eater was. The thing that makes me totally discount Hufflepuff is that the loyalty came from years under the Imperius curse and being in Azkaban. He hung onto his loyalty to Voldemort because it was the one thing he still had to hold on to.

As for Barty Sr. and his wife, that is a little harder. I would have to go with Slytherin for Barty Sr. He kept climbing at the Ministry and we know he was more for himself then his son. He did give in to his wife, and saved his son in the end. That shows a little more compassion. I would think either Hufflepuff or Slytherin, but Slytherin seems more likely. Mrs. Crouch is a little harder. I think I have to agree with Elle and say Gryffindor. The courage she had to spend her dieing moments in Azkaban is amazing to me. Most people would want to die in comfort.

crouch jr.

It doesn't appear that any of the Crouch family is extremely dumb. The mother managed to disguise herself as her son and get into Azkaban without the Dementor's detecting her. Also, if there are other guards at Azkaban, she got in without them knowing, too. Also, she helped to get her son out, so I think Sr.'s wife is cunning, too. I could see the entire family in Slytherin.

Before I say anything, I will tell you that what I am about to say goes against many things I believe about Slytherin Canon Characters. However, if you simply look at the traits that Slytherins are supposed to have, it makes sense.

Anyway, I don't think there's really anyway that Mrs. Crouch could have been a Slytherin. She may have shown cunning, which I mentioned before, but we have forgotten another major Slytherin trait. A Slytherin looks out for themselves first. I don't see any true Slytherin making the sacrifice she made.

That being said, I can think of three canon Slytherins who I could see doing this.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want to look souly at what the hat has said and what canon has said about Slytherins, Mrs. Crouch was not a Slytherin. However, if you want to look at the canon Slytherin characters and analyze them to death, there is a chance that she could be. I just think it would be hard to convince people that she was a Slytherin. Just like it's hard for me to convince people that Bellatrix isn't evil. It's hard but not impossible.

First of all, my points can only be valid if we go under the assumption that even Slytherins can love their children. Unless they are not human, I think they can.

A Slytherin looks out for themselves first. I don't see any true Slytherin making the sacrifice she made.

I think it is more that they look out for their own interests and ambitions, but we have to consider what Mrs. Crouch would consider her ambition. What did she want above all else? As a mother who clearly loved her son, regardless of what he had done, she wanted him to be safe and not to suffer. Any mother worth her salt would feel the same, but how many would be willing to break the law in the manner in which she did, under the circumstances of Barty, Jr's conviction? After all, he was guilty of a heinous crime.

It was one thing for Lily to stand between Voldemort and her innocent defenseless child, which took courage, but frankly, I see it as also instinctual. But what Mrs. Crouch did was calculated and devious, and quite illegal. Those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends. Now it also took courage and showed daring, nerve and... but did it show chivalry? This implies honor and duty. I don't know that breaking a guilty man out of prison shows honor, no matter if he is your only child. So I hesitate to say she was a true Gryffindor, though we can look at Peter Pettigrew and realize no one always exhibits the qualities of their house.

But anyway, back to Mrs. Crouch. Of course, she may have refused to believe the evidence against her son, but that was clearly allowing herself to be blinded by her feelings. I don't know if that indicates qualities of any of the houses per say. One could argue it was unwavering loyalty (Hufflepuff?), but it wasn't particularly just.

She also managed to get Barty, Sr. to go along with her, which must have been quite a feat considering his apparent feelings towards the Death Eaters and the law. She must have been very persuasive and he must have loved her very much to let her persuade him to do this. I would go so far as to say she seems even more of a Slytherin than Barty, Sr.

She knew she was dying, and I doubt she would have been much more comfortable at home thinking about her child suffering in Azkaban than she was in Azkaban with the dementors. There must have been great guilt in both the Crouches over what happened with their child. With that eating away at her, it would have been like having dementors present anyway. I don't think she saw it as that great a sacrifice. It was the only means of obtaining her goal, the one thing she wanted above all else. I think she fits the Slytherin mold to a tee.

I have to agree with Moony Maniac here. Mrs. Crouch could very easily have been in Slytherin and still had her actions be justified. She was dying. She knew her son would soon die if he didn't get out of Azkaban, and she saw a way of saving him, by convincing her husband to allow them to switch placed. That took a lot of coniving and determination on her part, which are both very much Slytherin traits.

Do you think she knew her son was guilty? I don't have any real canon basis for this, but for some reason, I think she believed him - believed he was innocent.

Were that true, would any of you change your opinions?

I always assumed she believed he was innocent. It's a mother's natural inclinatation to believe the best of their child, a good mother anyway. It's obvious that she loved her son very much and I don't think she would ever be able to believe that he was capable of the crimes he was imprisoned for. I also have my doubts.

So no, it doesn't change my opinion.

And I do understand why people are saying that she could have been in Slytherin. I never said she couldn't. I said it depended on how you wanted to look at it. If you go souly by what is basically believed of Slytherins than she is missing one major piece of criteria. If you want to look at more broadly, looking at canon characters and their actions, it becomes more believeable that she could have been a Slytherin.

Personally, I think she was a Gryfindor, but I could be wrong. She could be a Slytherin.

Most mothers don't want to face that their son's could have done something totally gruesome, and the charges against Barty Crouch Jr. were very gruesome. Using the Cruciatus Curse until the victim becomes mad is a very bad thing to do. I can totally believe that Mrs. Crouch would think her son innocent of that charge. Because of that, she probably would have done almost anything to get him out from under the Dementer's care. The fact that she was sick and dieing made it even more important for her to know he was safe and at home. I totally believe she might have thought him innocent.

I also would never discount that she could have been a Slytherin. I just think Gryffindore is more likely in my way of thinking.