I'd go for Brett Lee as the McGrath-Lee-Warne trio was the most successful trio of bowlers in the history of cricket. Incidently, the McGrath-Gillespie-Warne trio was the second most succesful and that makes your overall attack even better.

Greg Chappell is really under rated, in WSC he averaged just about the same as Viv and his test career was just spectacular added to his graceful batting was his useful legspin and he was probably the best second slip of all time. He was to Viv as Lara was to Tendulkar, not that far behind and some thought the better player.

Slight correction, Greg Chappell started as Leg spinner but swapped to Medium pace (Swing / cutters) around the start of his Test career. If you have a closer look at Gregs bowling average, it starts high for the first 2/3 years then gets better (with odd bad year)
to 82 then drops again

I'd go for Brett Lee as the McGrath-Lee-Warne trio was the most successful trio of bowlers in the history of cricket. Incidently, the McGrath-Gillespie-Warne trio was the second most succesful and that makes your overall attack even better.

Nothing wrong with selecting Lee, he obviously played an intimidation role with success on many occasions and is batting at 8 will be helpful.

However, I really dislike the reasoning as Siddle had no opportunity to partner the ATG's in McGrath and Warne. I'm pretty sure I've had this discussion with you regarding selecting Haynes and Greenidge as WI openers and some other occasions.

Nothing wrong with selecting Lee, he obviously played an intimidation role with success on many occasions and is batting at 8 will be helpful.

However, I really dislike the reasoning as Siddle had no opportunity to partner the ATG's in McGrath and Warne. I'm pretty sure I've had this discussion with you regarding selecting Haynes and Greenidge as WI openers and some other occasions.

Close. It was Simpson and Lawry.

For me it is a matter of 'proof', for you it is a matter of 'fairness'. That is, let's not punish a capable bloke just because he happened to play in a different decade from the other player(s).

Its very easy for me to prefer Sid, but even looking objectively for a minute (and only a minute) there records are almost identical:

Billy
ave 28.63
econ 3.01
sr 56.9

vs

Big Heart
ave 28.51
econ 3.02
sr 56.6

Records aren't the only thing to consider, its team dynamics and since I've already included a terrific opening ball pairing in McGrath and Gillespie I'm happy to select a bowler used to bowling first change like Siddle and I like how often he takes important wickets.

Its very interesting how similar those figures are. Of course, McDermott's are over a much longer time and cover more than twice as many victims - 291 versus 141. Another difference when one tries to probe further is that Siddle takes 7 percent more of his wickets in the tail (8 - 11) as compared to McDermott who takes exactly 7 percent more in the top order (1 to 3) with both being tied for the middle order. Of course, this has to do with Siddle bowling first change more often while McDermott was the spearhead. But it should have reflected in the middle order more which it doesn't.

Just a small point I guess.

The fact that the figures are similar and McDermott;s figures are for a complete career and twice as many victims would make me give the nod to him. The fact that he was the spearhead should go in his favour and not held against him. He was a good enough bowler to be the spearhead of a major Test playing country. If Sidddle has senior partners above him, it can be an asset for they soften up the opposition before he comes on.

I would tend to give it to McGermott at this stage between these two. Later, when Siddle is through with his career, who knows :o)

For me it is a matter of 'proof', for you it is a matter of 'fairness'. That is, let's not punish a capable bloke just because he happened to play in a different decade from the other player(s).

Why not just settle for Lee, McGrath and Warne in your All Time XI as the proof shows that no other 3 bowlers performed as well together.

@ SJS, I find it cool that Siddle is even being talked about as a legitimate option in this discussion, I clearly picked him as I'm a fan of his work and its my team, the same reason I picked Mark Waugh ahead of say Hussey, Boon, Jones, Martyn or Border (although AB played a large portion of his career before the criteria).

And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

Why not just settle for Lee, McGrath and Warne in your All Time XI as the proof shows that no other 3 bowlers performed as well together.

@ SJS, I find it cool that Siddle is even being talked about as a legitimate option in this discussion, I clearly picked him as I'm a fan of his work and its my team, the same reason I picked Mark Waugh ahead of say Hussey, Boon, Jones, Martyn or Border (although AB played a large portion of his career before the criteria).

By the way, I think Mark Waugh is one of Australia's most under-rated cricketers. I too would rate him ahead of all those you mentioned except Border. who, even though not as gifted as Waugh had other qualities that raised him to a higher level. If Mark Waugh had the tenacity of his brother or put as high a price on his wicket, we would have been talking of him in completely different terms.

By the way, I think Mark Waugh is one of Australia's most under-rated cricketers. I too would rate him ahead of all those you mentioned except Border. who, even though not as gifted as Waugh had other qualities that raised him to a higher level. If Mark Waugh had the tenacity of his brother or put as high a price on his wicket, we would have been talking of him in completely different terms.

Why not just settle for Lee, McGrath and Warne in your All Time XI as the proof shows that no other 3 bowlers performed as well together.

@ SJS, I find it cool that Siddle is even being talked about as a legitimate option in this discussion, I clearly picked him as I'm a fan of his work and its my team, the same reason I picked Mark Waugh ahead of say Hussey, Boon, Jones, Martyn or Border (although AB played a large portion of his career before the criteria).

Because we are comparing Siddle-McDermott-Lee, NOT Lee-Lillee-Lindwall which can't make your team because of the criteria.

As I've said before, the reason for considering a known successful partnership is to help select a player when all other things are equal (Ave, SR etc). Therefore, since I can't split Siddle-Lee-McDermott is terms of individual performance it seems reasonable to bring Lee's partnership with McGrath and Warne into the equation.

But I wouldn't use a similar selection process when trying to decide between Lee and say, Lillee because Lillee is so obviously the better bowler. It would be pointless.

Graveney notes that the pace-attack is too heavily reliant on the ever-willing Kapil Dev, with medium pace support from Umrigar and to a lesser extent Hazare, but makes no apologies for the fact that the majority of India's greatest bowlers have been spinners and that the quicker they are into the attack, the more effective the team will be.

Because we are comparing Siddle-McDermott-Lee, NOT Lee-Lillee-Lindwall which can't make your team because of the criteria.

As I've said before, the reason for considering a known successful partnership is to help select a player when all other things are equal (Ave, SR etc). Therefore, since I can't split Siddle-Lee-McDermott is terms of individual performance it seems reasonable to bring Lee's partnership with McGrath and Warne into the equation.

But I wouldn't use a similar selection process when trying to decide between Lee and say, Lillee because Lillee is so obviously the better bowler. It would be pointless.

That's fine, you think they are equal or close to equal so you found a good reason to pick him which is great. Before it sounded like you picked him solely on the basis of being part of the best trio.

Slight correction, Greg Chappell started as Leg spinner but swapped to Medium pace (Swing / cutters) around the start of his Test career. If you have a closer look at Gregs bowling average, it starts high for the first 2/3 years then gets better (with odd bad year)
to 82 then drops again