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https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/52889-legacy-crusade-the-journey-doesnt-end-here/
I just do not see how this isn't the final nail in the coffin for us. The only way this works out for Crestfall is if the realm is released within the year, but I have a feeling IF, it is released it will be near the release of this TBC server and being overshadowed. And thats a big IF they even release Crestfall on elysium anymore at this point.

Does anyone remember if quests you did in vanilla wow counted towards those loremaster achievements added later on?
I recall a guildie I used to raid with in wotlk complaining about the quests she did in vanilla didn't count towards those achievements. It poped into my head the other day so I went looking but I cant seem to find any evidence of that being the case.
I did the loremaster in wotlk so I'm not sure if they count or not. If they don't I think they should. Not sure how hard that would be to implement.

Hello.
So this is about our Progression Through Expansions (PTE) format for Crestfall. Not one for doing things for no reason we started a poll on this about a week ago. You can find the results here:
In this poll we asked a simple question, and we deliberately limited choices. Our poll attracted 139 votes. Lest people complain that 139 is not a decent representative of the members I'll remind you that at that time, we only had 545 members who actively posted on these forums. Therefore 139 represents 25% of potential voters. This is the equivalent of asking 16m people what party they would vote for in the UK for example. So from my point of view, while the percentages would change if everyone voted, they would in no way affect the final outcome. Which is this:
Hmmm. Bit blurry, nevermind.
So here's the critical thing, based on these numbers, only 5.8% of members would stay on the Vanilla realm once TBC becomes available.
Let's put that into context. The devs have said that they are happy to run a TBC and Vanilla realm as long as the numbers work out. For the numbers to work out, and this applies to PvE or PvP realms, my estimation is that you would need a 50/50 split on a realm where the max population on at any one time is about 4000. My thinking on this is that if 2000 head off to TBC, and 2000 stay in Vanilla, leaving us in an ideal world where you would have 1000 toons on either faction at peak time on both TBC/Vanilla realms.
As per the FAQ:
Q. How are you going to handle progressing from Vanilla to TBC? And how far are you going to go?
A. Our current plan is to open a new PvP TBC realm and allow characters to transfer from the PvP Vanilla realm if they choose to. We expect that the number of interested players will be sufficient to keep both the Vanilla and TBC realms healthy. In the case of the PvE realm, the current plan is to directly upgrade it to a TBC realm, so there will be no PvE Vanilla after the TBC upgrade. The reason for this is that our current estimates suggest that splitting the population in that case would leave not enough people in either realm for it to be successful. If the PvE population is larger than we expected, then we can treat that and the PvP server in the same fashion.
Well these votes kill that stone dead. Even allowing for a buffered delay as people transfer their accounts/characters over time, this 5.8% would mean that the sum total peak population on the vanilla would end up being 232. The other 3768 will happily be playing TBC.
On this basis, as per what the devs have said, the vanilla realm will be mothballed after ~18 months with all characters transferred into the TBC version.
Annnnnnnnnndddd it doesn't get much better for TBC. Once the TBC content is exhausted then the total number of players left on the realm - even if we generously include the orphan vanilla players - will only amount to around 990 players at peak. Again, not in anyway a viable number of players.
Realistically, the only realm that stands a chance of being viable would be the WotLK version assuming we progress to Cataclysm. The max pop if we include the vanilla + TBC players would be close to 70% of the player base or 2800.
The great pity about all this is players that find out about Crestfall late in the day. Let's say end 2017 (or 2031) you hear about Crestfall and log on only to find that the realm has only got 4-6 months left before you are forced into TBC. That would be a damn shame. It would also be a damn shame if the fabulously scripted and working vanilla realm was mothballed instead of being admired as a work of art.
And there the matter would have remained except for this thread here by @Xadas
So during the day we've had a back and forwards discussion with Darkrasp and for me anyway, the goalposts have changed slightly. I have to say I was pretty confused/stupid with this until @DeeMarie and @Chickengrease cleared it up for me. The salient point is Darkrasp's comment here:
So here is what I think will happen:
A1: You play Vanilla on the 1.12.1 client, much fun is had and you create multiple characters
A2: After ~16-18 months The Burning Crusade comes along
A3: You can decide which characters get transferred over to the TBC realm and which ones stay.
A4: If you log onto the 1.12.1 client the characters you specified to stay remain there to be played.
B1: When you log onto the 2.4.3 client the characters that you wanted to transfer will be on that TBC realm
B2: As Darkrasp said, if you don't transfer your character over you have the risk that someone will take that name (although you can always leave a placeholder)
This means that the avatar idea I proposed is trashed in my opinion. You can always leave a L60 or whatever on the vanilla realm if you want to play there.
It also means that the population figures I spent a lot of time getting are not as relevant as they seem. It's perfectly reasonable to expect that people will continue to play on both realms. However, such is the dearth of players wanting to remain on vanilla I still think that both PvE and PvP realms will be mothballed as some point after TBC is released. 5.8% just doesn't work for me.
Right. That's it I think. I reserve the right to be completely wrong and look forward to any gentle corrections.

Greetings.
This specific question has not been asked as a poll. We have talked about it in this thread by @Lily here:
And it's cropping up on this thread here:
As a by product. So just to be clear (and I'll edit this if necessary). There will be two realms at launch: PvE or Zul'Dare and PvP or Kul'Tiras. There may be more upon demand but this is not relevant.
What is relevant is that the server will be PTE or Progression Through Expansions. That is, after an undefined period of time (but generally agreed to be 16-18 months), one of two things will happen:
Option 1: If the realm you are on has a healthy population (not defined but assumed to be 5000 peak online at one time) then another realm will be made available for The Burning Crusade expansion. You can then CHOOSE to remain in the Kul'Tiras vanilla realm for as long as you like or.............transfer to the TBC server.
Option 2: If the realm you are on has a low population (not defined but assumed to be less than 2500 peak online at one time) then this realm will progress to The Burning Crusade whether you like it or not. Vanilla will cease to exist for all your associated toons.
Caveats:
Option 2 can apply to the PvE or PvP realms or both. It is population based only.
The devs may allow you to character transfer from PvP to PvE and vice versa and therefore from vanilla to vanilla or vanilla to TBC or any other combination. This may not happen. This may require a payment normally defined as 'a contribution to our running costs'
That this process will occur yet again once TBC content is exhausted (at an agreed timeline) and we progress to Wrath of the Lich King.
That this process will PROBABLY occur once again for Cataclysm but this is not guaranteed and it's a long way off
Therefore:
It is reasonable to put a poll to the members so that all of us (including the devs) get an early idea where people would like to halt progression.
That whatever people vote on it's just a snapshot in time and people may change their minds, so people quoting this thread and results when we are in TBC should start another poll.
That as the players will be spending days/weeks/months of their lives happily playing in Crestfall realms it's only fair that we should have some idea what the end result will be.
For the poll I have NOT included any expansion specifically past Cata other than an option for further expansions as a general option
I have also added in an avatar option. To explain, this would happen if you went from vanilla to TBC but wanted to leave an avatar behind so you could still play vanilla. Or, this would allow the devs to do a proper split as effectively you are keeping some of the population behind. This is my own personal wish list so please vote down if you don't like it.
Finally:
I would kindly ask people not to post the obvious here. That is, it's not helpful to say 'I'm staying in vanilla' that's what the poll is for. Comments should be addressed to the functionality of PTE in terms of how it may work as a mechanism. So for example, what the numbers should be to allow for a realm to spilt to vanilla + TBC rather than just progress automatically.
Please note voter names are public for validity reasons
That's about it. Please vote. If you don't vote, don't bitch.

Greets.
So this topic came about from a number of conversations I had with other forum members, sometimes here, sometimes in Discord. I won't mention any names owing to the fact that I don't want them to be guilty by association, but happy to credit/debit as required.
This is a reasonably serious topic. It's about what the community feels constitutes Crestfall becoming a success story. There's no one answer, there are many. Also, success is likely to be based on a number of different components, not just one. For that reason we have a multiple choice poll. I was doing some experimentation today on that on the basis, but my limited understanding of private servers will ensure I may miss some important topic.
So, if you don't see something that you consider critically important to the success of CF, just drop a post below and I'll add it if deserves inclusion. Just remember not to actually vote until I amend it.
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POPULATION
There's been quite a debate about the population on Crestfall, mostly in connection with population caps. Both revolve around each other. Clearly, for a server to be successful a reasonable population is critical. You really need ~1000 people online on a consistent level to constitute a popular server. This is currently the case with K2 and Elysium. The pop cap at present is seen to be 5000-5500 with 3000-3500 seen as being ''Blizzlike''. High populations mean a number of good and bad things. On the positive side, high populations ensure community, PvP, instances, elite quests, the economy and at a later stage, raids, are functional and successful. On the negative side, too high a population can lead to lag, log on issues, contention on quests/mobs/items and gathering resources. It seems that CF will prevent most of these by clustering and dynamic spawn rates, but the potential for issues are still there.
Now everyone wants a healthy population, so from my viewpoint if you take this as a priority, it's because you prefer Nostalrius-type numbers. So by picking population you are saying that 5000 should be the minimum we aim for on the realm at any one time, and more is preferable.
RAID FUNCTIONALITY
So we all now that raid progression is linear in terms of difficulty. Therefore Molton Core for example is pretty easy for 1.12 talented, equipped and specced toons as MC was never retroactively fixed to take into account these changes. As we move to BWL, ZG, AQ and Naxx, the difficulties increase but not to the point that will cause huge problems for high end raiders with their knowledge, skill sets and min/maxing. But that's just it, these elite guilds want a challenge, they don't expect to be constantly wiping and failing but they do want to see bosses put up a big fight so they can have some fun. This seems perfectly reasonable to me. In addition, on other servers the scripting and functionality of the bosses including loot drops goes from the appalling to the laughable.
For Crestfall to be successful therefore, it needs to find some balance in remaining ''Blizzlike'' and yet provide this challenge. Therefore, changes are proposed in tweaking how bosses function so to maintain the element of surprise and thus provide a challenge rather than taking the easy option of just doubling the hit points. Critically, elite raiders are small in number but large in impact. If the top tier guilds think CF instances and raids are well scripted and challenging, it will be worth its weight in gold in relation to good publicity. For scrubs like me that would like to do part-time raiding, having functional and well-scripted raids is also important.
This is a self-evident priority, but there are those that don't particularly care about end-content and may just give this option a miss
PVP
What do I know about PvP? Not a lot. But there are times that you just want to get to know your toon/class much better and play under demanding and stressful conditions, so I understand the situation only too well. For the record, I like AB and AV. I would love to play the original and best AV. For die-hards, playing real AV and world PVP may be the only reason why you want to play on Crestfall. Unless there is cross-BG's you're unlikely to see me. If we do have cross-BG's then I'll hire myself out as a decoy as I know you all want my head on your mantelpiece. So if functional PvP is your priority vote here.
PATHING
When I was in Nostalrius even a scrub like me saw a lot of bugs, most of these involved pathing for mobs in caves. In nearly every starter zone, there is a cave system where you have to enter to kill x mobs or an x elite boss etc. This is designed by Blizz to challenge your skillsets as you need to be aware of aggro radius, mob respawns , mana/regen etc etc. Not a huge challenge of course but if the mobs don't path correctly you may find yourself in constant combat, or have mobs which pulse other mobs through roofs or all sorts of unwarranted actions. On the reverse side, correct pathing of pets is also an issue for Warlocks and Hunters if their pets exhibit the same issues. You could end up aggroing an entire cave system if your pet doesn't path correctly. This is a absolute MaNGOS issue, so if CF can get this right from the get-go it positively reinforces the perspective that this is an original, new and fresh emulator, better than all the rest. If pathing is an issue for you, it's because you want CF to show how much better it is than MaNGOS or because you play a class that required this as a bottom line.
ECONOMY
This is actually a very complex subject. A functioning economy is based on so many different factors I don't know where to begin. But for example, it includes putting in preventative measures against Devilsaur/Black Lotus cartels, banning of Chinese accounts, modifying bosses in DM to prevent solo farming and so forth. The developers have ensured that the worst proponents for exploits in Nostalrius have been recruited to play test the server to ensure that all the old tricks don't count here. This should make the servers fair for all. What you put in you should get out. If a functioning, fair economy is important for you, tick this box.
BUG FIXING, FEEDBACK, CM's
So we all know the issues with MaNGOS servers because we've all seen this issues before, right? So CF will do away with these issues as it's a completely different core, right? Key thing here, as some wise people pointed out is that CF is likely to have its own unique issues. At server launch, things will not go smoothly. It's the way of things. Even after open Beta and PTR when the realms go live with the population demands, we will find that there are issues unforeseen by the developers and the realm testers.
This is perfectly normal.
What's critical therefore is how quickly the devs respond to these issues. Encouragingly, because the devs have developed their own core and not copy/pasted it from somewhere else, they can identify the issues and resolve them very quickly based on anecdotal conversations. What's critical therefore, is how this works on live realms. Does CF have the staff and expertise in place to deal with multiple bug fixing played out under reddit conditions? The first month of this server will determine it's lifespan and success. As Roy Keane said 'Fail to prepare, prepare to fail'. If you see community response and bug fixing as a priority, tick this box.
PTE
Which stands for 'Progression Through Expansion' or in other words, after 16-18 months we get catapulted into The Burning Crusade either by choice (PvP) or by default (PvE). This in private server realms has never happened before and I think this is the very large Ace card the devs have burning in their back pocket. Let me put this into perspective for you.....to be truly Blizzlike you have to have PTE. We all went through this process in retail so why not do it in CF? Doing this potentially prolongs our involvement to multiple of years. 16-18 months to TBC, 16-18 months to WotLK and then if you have any sense you would stop right there but hey, sense can be in short demand. Just imagine this, the same players, the same friends/enemies/guilds, together for a decade or so. It's awesome, and it's awesome for this server only. Vote for the awesome.
COMMUNITY
Does exactly what it says on the can. Mostly on these forums. Enough said. Proud of being Crestfallen? Vote here....
JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING
So this is for the scrubs like me. On Nost, I could forgive the pathing in caves. I could forgive the DC on the boat to Feathermoon Isle. I could forgive the fact that you would end up 30' above the flightmaster on landing. What I couldn't forgive is that the fishing bobber wasn't working on 35% of the catches meaning you had to guess when the bobber worked. People like me are 'generalists'. It means that we are happy to work in buggy environments but certain things drive us over the edge. So it's that lack of testing that makes the difference between a great server and an also-ran. I talk about the weather in vanilla and people just don't get it. For people like me, having functional weather and fish bobbing is what will make this a proper emulator. But I can understand if others go meh.
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So go ahead and vote. Please be kind so that I can rewind the voting topics if you feel it doesn't include your own priorities