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View Poll Results: Should the Pacers sit Danny for the rest of the year?

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

There are only two answers to the question. Yes and no. No, it is not time to pull the plug. If Danny can return in one month and give us 10 minutes a game, it will help. The time to pull the plug is pretty soon though. If he's not out there in 3 weeks I think I'd call it.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

This comment sums it up for me. Plus, I'm pretty confident that Granger would be perfectly fine coming off the bench for the remainder of the season AND playoffs.

IF he can even do that. He first has to show his knee responds well. Then he needs to get in game shape. That really takes about a month. We don't want Granger out there in the playoffs trying to get in game shape. He has to be playing by early April or he is likely to be a detriment.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

It's too early to pull the plug. There's still enough time in the season left to usher Granger back in without affecting chemistry and having him be out of basketball shape.

However, it is kind of alarming that he's still having soreness and pain given the mysteriousness of this injury. Starting to look like it may be something that never gets fully right.

I don't know. I don't have what Granger has but I've been dealing with runners knee for 9 months now. It still isn't healed all the way and from everything I've read it can take a year or more for some people. Knee injuries seem to be a slow process. I can empathize with Danny because I know how he feels. It has killed me mentally to take 9 months off from running.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

This is just a bunch of bs. It's not like the Pacers aren't prepared for any and all contingencies. They know exactly what to do if Granger is not available.

Do they? it doesn't look like it, it looks to me like they put all their eggs in the Danny Granger is coming back basket without preparing for the worse.

And they know exactly what they'll do if he is available but not yet ready to start.

Are you sure about that?

They don't have to pull the plug on anything, because there is absolutely nothing that can happen that they haven't planned for.

Give me a break. This horse of a topic was dead a long time ago.

Yeah because their plans have worked out pretty well this year, their plan to have one of the deepest bench in the league have been a huge fail, their plan to make Green a good player have failed, their master plan not to do anything during the trade deadline because the "all star" was coming back have been a huge fail but yeah nobody should question this team plans, give me a break.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

Yeah because their plans have worked out pretty well this year, their plan to have one of the deepest bench in the league have been a huge fail, their plan to make Green a good player have failed, their master plan not to do anything during the trade deadline because the "all star" was coming back have been a huge fail but yeah nobody should question this team plans, give me a break.

And yet, after that COLOSSAL FAILURE of an offseason, we're tied for second in the East and universally regarded as one of two teams that have a chance of beating the Heat.

Re-sign West and we're in the same position next year with an improved PG and Lance.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

I liked it better when Kravitz didn't pay attention to us.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. Ö You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

Do they? it doesn't look like it, it looks to me like they put all their eggs in the Danny Granger is coming back basket without preparing for the worse.

Do you know anything at all about business management? About risk analysis? Or about contingency planning?

i do. The last 15 years of my career, I specialized in all three. You seem to think just because we have not been made privy to these plans that they don't exist. Your entire argument seems to be based on less than stellar free agency signings last summer and the fact that we did nothing prior to the trade deadline.

Perhaps you should wake up and take notice of the team we have. A #1 defense, an emerging offense, and vying for the #2 seed in the East. All probably a good two years ahead of the time schedule that most of us thought possible. The Pacers themselves have stated that this team has taken them by surprise with how quickly they have been able to compete/contend. The counted on West being 100% this year and Vogel stated that he expected great improvement from George this season, although he says he is surprised by how much George has improved.

When you responded, you knew very well that the contingencies being talked about were specifically regarding what to do (from this time forward) to prepare for the playoffs regardless of how Danny's role might be limited. Yet you expands the topic to also include your old wounds regarding last summers signings and what they didn't do prior to the trade deadline.

i fell very confident in knowing thePacers are prepared for the playoffs both with and without Granger. And that TPTB will do a great job planning for the team's future, with or without your support/approval of their deeds.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

Do you know anything at all about business management? About risk analysis? Or about contingency planning?

i do. The last 15 years of my career, I specialized in all three. You seem to think just because we have not been made privy to these plans that they don't exist. Your entire argument seems to be based on less than stellar free agency signings last summer and the fact that we did nothing prior to the trade deadline.

Perhaps you should wake up and take notice of the team we have. A #1 defense, an emerging offense, and vying for the #2 seed in the East. All probably a good two years ahead of the time schedule that most of us thought possible. The Pacers themselves have stated that this team has taken them by surprise with how quickly they have been able to compete/contend. The counted on West being 100% this year and Vogel stated that he expected great improvement from George this season, although he says he is surprised by how much George has improved.

When you responded, you knew very well that the contingencies being talked about were specifically regarding what to do (from this time forward) to prepare for the playoffs regardless of how Danny's role might be limited. Yet you expands the topic to also include your old wounds regarding last summers signings and what they didn't do prior to the trade deadline.

i fell very confident in knowing thePacers are prepared for the playoffs both with and without Granger. And that TPTB will do a great job planning for the team's future, with or without your support/approval of their deeds.

Great response but you still didn't talk about this great plan you are talking about, just because you are so confident about the front office doesn't mean that some of us are going to trust the FO like you because so far they have failed in almost everything since they took over.

By the way I expect the automatic thanks from Sandman21 to your post right about .................. now.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

Great response but you still didn't talk about this great plan you are talking about, just because you are so confident about the front office doesn't mean that some of us are going to trust the FO like you because so far they have failed in almost everything since they took over.

By the way I expect the automatic thanks from Sandman21 to your post right about .................. now.

You can't be serious. The Pacers looked into Redick, but didn't have the juice to land him.

At this time, anyone with an iota of sense can figure out the plan. It's been mentioned in posts several times. Can you not figure out what the plan is for the playoffs regardig Granger? It's not rocket science. After all the Pacers have exactly 15 players available to them, including one who may or may not be available to them in the playoffs.

Look at the options and figure it out. It's not al that freaking hard.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

By the way I expect the automatic thanks from Sandman21 to your post right about .................. now.

Hmm, did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sandman21 For This Useful Post:

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

Pulling the plug on Danny's "comeback" is virtually identical to asking if it's time for the Colts to punt after they only gained 1 yd on first down. Oh no, it's 2nd and 9 and doesn't look great. We could try a couple more times but why risk a fumble or something else going wrong, let's just give up rather than take basically a free shot to make our situation better, especially since we control exactly how we approach it.

The Pacers or Frank can easily not use Danny if he hurts the team. They can put him in whatever role works. But this idea that they are just going to be a mess come playoff time because they start working DG back into some minutes is nuts.

You take whatever Danny can comfortably offer but do so within the structure of the team. If he blows up their flow then the minutes are reduced. If he hurts the starters but works well off the bench then you use him that way.

But don't fold your hand before anyone else has bet. Go take a look first and see how it goes. Sheesh. This subject has been so loaded with paranoia and a misunderstanding of the team dynamics and how Danny fits within them. You saw the team react to his first bucket. You saw his scoring and FG% improve after a few games and how much it helped. You saw him making some strong defensive plays.

Good lord they are still trying to work Green back into some minutes and he's been a disaster for 2 months now. Heck, they had Plumlee in uniform in preparation for a possible garbage time opportunity vs the Magic. All these other guys you try to improve and work into the roster even in mid-March, but Granger you give up on? Green has more potential value in these playoffs than Danny at this point???

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

There are only two answers to the question. Yes and no. No, it is not time to pull the plug. If Danny can return in one month and give us 10 minutes a game, it will help. The time to pull the plug is pretty soon though. If he's not out there in 3 weeks I think I'd call it.

Why call it? What is the benefit?

Either he can play or he can't, and that's true every night. If it's game 4 of round 2 and suddenly Danny feels great and can come in and bust 5 threes in 25 minutes you don't say "nah, we shut him down 3 weeks ago, we'll take a pass on those 15 points, we don't need them".

To me when I hear people discuss this topic it sounds more like "should I give up hope of Danny making a beneficial return" more than "should the team stop monitoring his health and trying to integrate him when he feels healthy".

If we are betting on "will he be able to", well that's a different topic. It would appear he won't be in starter shape the way it's going, but if he is then you 100% put him in there. These guys have been chucking out 15-20 TO games all over the place. They just went 4 minutes without a point in a choke to Boston. They almost choked at home against the Bulls D-league roster. They have been a juggernaut at times but they have also been a pathetic flop at others, and recently.

So let's just be clear about what Danny would be "ruining" on his return. I sure as F would have liked to see Danny in both the CHI and BOS game after watching Paul stink up the gym with his shooting. West fumbled the ball around quite a bit vs BOS as well. That was without Danny. So they already have big problems, even if they are only sporadic. Danny isn't coming into this pristine, perfect machine that can't dare have the slightest imbalance disturb it.

Danny might not be back, but if he can be then they certainly need him because right now they look outmatched by a lot of playoff teams, at least on some nights. It only takes 1-2 to ruin a series.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

First is that if Granger ends up not being available for the playoffs, Orlando Johnson wouldn't be sitting watching Danny try to make a comeback at the last minute. Orlando would instead get more in-game experience which he will need being the first wing off the bench in the playoffs. Also, continuity leading into the playoffs. Tightening up our rotations. These are all factors. With Granger in and out, that eliminates the possibility of the team getting in a rhythm.

There is also the mental aspect. I think it helps the team as a whole prepare mentally knowing what to expect...whether they will definitely be in games.

Finally, a rusty Danny Granger without his legs back attempting to play playoff basketball is not as good as Orlando Johnson.

Also, let's be really clear about something. The Danny Granger we all know and love is not coming back this year. It's simply too late. A fake immitation might be available but that will take some luck and even then he's only a minor improvement over the alternatives.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

First off, I want an opponent spending time to prepare for Granger in the playoffs, especially if internally we would know he has no chance of playing.

But the big kicker in all of this is that by saying it needs to be called is really like saying Vogel is stupid and can't be trusted to make an intelligent decision. Don't you guys think that Vogel is bright enough to recognize that Granger can't make a go of it after he's been on the floor for a minute or two? Or for that matter, do you really think that Granger will make himself available for substitution, whether in uniform or not, if his knee hurts like hell?

Jeesh. Pick your fights better, because this one is just plain stupid and was over with the passing of the trade deadline.

As for being better prepared if they know they might play. BS, these guys are supposed to be pros and prepared at ALL times. If they aren't, frankly they need to be on somebody else's team.

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

I still don't get why you are so mad about this conversation, you can put the thread on ignore and move on.

First off, I want an opponent spending time to prepare for Granger in the playoffs, especially if internally we would know he has no chance of playing.

Prepare for what? did you see the guy trying to play? if I was another team I'll be happy if the Pacers play the guy.

But the big kicker in all of this is that by saying it needs to be called is really like saying Vogel is stupid and can't be trusted to make an intelligent decision. Don't you guys think that Vogel is bright enough to recognize that Granger can't make a go of it after he's been on the floor for a minute or two? Or for that matter, do you really think that Granger will make himself available for substitution, whether in uniform or not, if his knee hurts like hell?

Nobody is saying that Vogel is stupid calm down.

Jeesh. Pick your fights better, because this one is just plain stupid and was over with the passing of the trade deadline.

Nobody is picking anything.

As for being better prepared if they know they might play. BS, these guys are supposed to be pros and prepared at ALL times. If they aren't, frankly they need to be on somebody else's team.

This is not the NFL were you can cut players, and yes the options are pros but neither one of those pros are worth a damn(maybe OJ).

Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

If the answer to both of these questions is 'Yes', then why the hell is it so important to make a call regarding pulling the plug? It becomes a totally moot point.

I understand your inclination to protect your baby, since you started the thread. But then again, you've started a few threads regarding Granger. And, whether you've started them or not, you've posted on a lot of them, usually either either offering posts that are slightly to greatly anti-Granger, or supporting the posts of those who have done the same.

Like everyone else, I post either out of feelings regarding an issue, or when absolutely forced to, I sometimes fall back on something called logic. When I see others unable or unwilling to do the same, that's typically where my emotions get involved.

If the answer to both of these questions is 'Yes', then why the hell is it so important to make a call regarding pulling the plug? It becomes a totally moot point.

Because the playoffs are getting close? you keep thinking that is easy to plug a guy on the run during the playoffs and as we have seen with other teams plugging a guy on the run doesn't work.

I understand your inclination to protect your baby, since you started the thread. But then again, you've started a few threads regarding Granger. And, whether you've started them or not, you've posted on a lot of them, usually either either offering posts that are slightly to greatly anti-Granger, or supporting the posts of those who have done the same.

I'm not protecting no baby so stop with that bs and stop with the anti-Danny bs too, if you don't want to see the writing on the wall then that is on you, by the way so far my "negativity"(common sense) has been spot on.

Like everyone else, I post either out of feelings regarding an issue, or when absolutely forced to, I sometimes fall back on something called logic. When I see others unable or unwilling to do the same, that's typically where my emotions get involved.

OK so lets see your "logic", you think Vogel is the one making the decisions, wrong, you think the Pacers have a backup plan in case Danny can't play, wrong, you think the Pacers have a plan to know how to incorporate Danny during the playoffs, I would like to know what that amazing plan is because the plan didn't look like a "plan" few weeks ago.