Ah Niffweed, so great talking to you. Sadly, I must go, so you'll have to save your obnoxious comments for your imaginary friends "living" with you in your parents' basement.
Thank your lucky stars that twerps like you can hide behind the internet; the real world of people (perhaps you've heard of it) isn't so nice.

All I'm saying is: do what you want, but go about it in a way that is systematic, but (and this will sound weird) open to failure. You're plans are perfectly in tune with what I'm saying. It's just the Socionics justification for playing it overly safe and taking no responsibility for initiative in your life that I object to. I understand why you want to be offensively defensive. I realize you are taking a responsibility to greatly minimize the probability that you will fail, thus placing you in a pretty shitty position from which you'll have to work your way up from again. But, when I did that, I ended up disappointed with myself and where my life was heading, with a huge case of ennui, and consequently, depression. That may not be the case for you, I admit. I don't value stability perhaps because I have never been stable to begin with - even when I was under the financial auspices of my parents.

After reading your post I agree with you to an extent... Your approach is one that signifies you're a step closer to "self-realization" than I am. I know you want us to learn from your mistakes but I think the main thing you're not taking into consideration is that it has nothing to do with the Socionics justification, it has to do with personally building self-confidence up to level that leads to achieving success vs. avoiding failure. I don't think you took this into consideration... I mean that INFps that are just finished school and entering the work force have not yet had the time to build self-confidence up, which is in itself a lengthy process. For example, you can say I should keep my mind open to anything and go for it but I don't even know how to go for whatever it is, I'm still at the point of sending resumees, going through first important interviews ever, I don't know where to get the information on what's available out there yet and so because so much of my future is unknown I'm being overly cautious...

I think that after being in the workforce a few years I'll end up thinking the same way as you. But at this moment, with no career experience, it's reasonable that I prefer to hold back. As an analogy, I feel like a man that's just been blinded... I'm slowly moving around my apartment, scared to go outside because I don't know where anything is, double-checking every step I make so I don't fall. And on the other hand you're the blind guy that's gotten used to the blindness, goes for walks in the park without a second thought, has realized that everything's not as bad as it first seemed through personal experience, and looks back at the first few frightened days of the predicament and regrets not getting out in the world, and realizing it's not as bad as it seemed, sooner.

IEI/INFp - good and bad career choices

Hi,

I've recently done a few tests and consistently score as an infp. A lot of the descriptions seem quite spot on so I've been reading up on it and I came across a peice that said 'blah-de-blah-de-blah but this does not stop them from becoming sloppy mechanics, sloppy engineers, sloppy programmers'. As someone who has been a programmer for over a decade this is both incredibly spot on and worrying. I've been feeling totally miserable in my work for sometime now, I enjoy starting new projects and get extremely excited by the prospects but the actual implementation bogs me down, I get frustrated, easily distracted and the whole thing ends up a mess and this in turn makes me depressed. I currently spend half my day procrastinating and surfing the net and I've got an increasingly impending sense of doom that this will be noticed at some stage and I'll end up getting the sack but I just can't motivate myself. In short, I'm a bit of a mess.

Looking over the preferred career-types for infps there are certainly some that appeal, has anyone else been in a non-suitable career and made a change one more suited to there type and whats been your experiences?

Cheers

Ambition is like a frog sitting on a Venus Flytrap. The flytrap can bite and bite, but it won't bother the frog because it only has little tiny plant teeth. But some other stuff could happen and it could be like ambition.

well i have not changed careers, but i know what you mean about motivation waning. for sure. i've been there for like a year. good thing i'm sooo far off the radar nobody would even notice. then at the last minute when somebody needs somthing from me, i put it together like a pro so it always looks like i'm on top of things. wheew. sounds like you think your type is not well suited to your job. can i ask how old you are? only because the older you get the less motivated for work you get and the closer you head toward a mid life type of crisis about work.

infp's make great counselors i think. i see them all the time in my field (social work).

well i have not changed careers, but i know what you mean about motivation waning. for sure. i've been there for like a year. good thing i'm sooo far off the radar nobody would even notice. then at the last minute when somebody needs somthing from me, i put it together like a pro so it always looks like i'm on top of things. wheew. sounds like you think your type is not well suited to your job. can i ask how old you are? only because the older you get the less motivated for work you get and the closer you head toward a mid life type of crisis about work.

infp's make great counselors i think. i see them all the time in my field (social work).

I'm only 21 and I already hate work so much that it makes me feel ill (granted I've not really had a job I've enjoyed). I guess it's looking a bit bleak for me.

INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

"When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

The Socionics description you are talking about is the "INFp uncovered" description from the Socionics.com website, that is more tongue-in-cheek than anything else. (In fact, pretty much everything on Sergei Ganin's website needs to be taken with a grain of salt... actually better yet the entire salt-lick.) There is a reason you became a programmer. What is it? I think you need to take a moment to recollect why it was you entered this discipline in the first place? What about it attracted you? Imagine yourself as the impressionable, earnest person you were ten years ago. What were your ambitions? What were your priorities? Does your current position in the field allow you to fulfill those ambitions and priorities?

I don't encourage anyone to stay in a position that is causing him/her a "sense of impending doom" and stress that outweigh the benefits of keeping the job. But if you were to enter another career, what would it be? And why? (Don't say "Because that's what INFps are good at." Socionics can help explain phenomena, but not predict it. There's no telling how you'll do in another field. Also, we can't overlook the possibility that you may not actually be INFp. Testing is not an accurate indicator of type.) You don't want to lead yourself down another wrong turn again.

Before you do anything too hasty: plan, plan, plan. Worst case scenario: you DO get the sack. You'll need enough in monetary savings to get your through a period of job-hunting. It is much easier to enter into another subsect of your current field than enter into a whole different one, so don't overlook the possibility of finding another job within the same field. You may want to start thinking of possible intra-field career moves, now.

If you feel you can't continue in programming: You'll first of all need to know what it is you would like to pursue. You'll need an updated curriculum vitae for your new career. (You can't pursue counseling with a programming resume.) You may have to go back to school. (You'll need to consider what sort of school you need to go to, and have in mind a means of paying for it. Perhaps taking on a job within your current field to foot the bill, and go to night-school.)

Good luck. You seem pretty conscientious, so I'm sure you'll do fine with whatever decision you make.

"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

Whatever you do don't victimize yourself and wait for a miracle to save you from the doom. Be realistic. Listen to Baby. If you want more freedom an important thing is to have some savings. In that way you don't have to worry about getting sacked that much. If it happens you have time to make new plans. The best thing for you might be to find a dominant partner. They can make complex things seem simple and energize you. Your real problem is probably not lack of skill but lack of motivation and self confidence. dominant partner might put that in you. You lack the flame within.
I try to think of more practical stuff later.

i have analyzed your writing style and diction thoroughly and have determined that your optimal career is that of a hotel elevator operator. your unique sense of discipline and inter-functionality of associations makes you ideal for punching buttons corresponding to different floors.

i have analyzed your writing style and diction thoroughly and have determined that your optimal career is that of a hotel elevator operator. your unique sense of discipline and inter-functionality of associations makes you ideal for punching buttons corresponding to different floors.

Rofl. I'm a wee bit pissed (drunk) at the moment, but I found that funny.

INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

"When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

baby - my problem is that I don't know what I want to do, as far as I'm aware I've never had any goals or ambitions and I got into programming by following the path of least resistance. I don't know if I'd say it appeals but teaching might be a change that would at least allow me to use my previous experience.

xox - thats all very true but I've been in this position before and I have a habit of pressing the self-destruct button, i just think I need to find something I'll be happy doing rather than base my decisions on finances.

niff - that's what I'm looking for a career where I can get in at the ground floor and work my way up

five - yeah, i guess a better question would be whether it is common for people working outside their type-jobs to feel unhappy in them.

Ambition is like a frog sitting on a Venus Flytrap. The flytrap can bite and bite, but it won't bother the frog because it only has little tiny plant teeth. But some other stuff could happen and it could be like ambition.

Ambition is like a frog sitting on a Venus Flytrap. The flytrap can bite and bite, but it won't bother the frog because it only has little tiny plant teeth. But some other stuff could happen and it could be like ambition.

i have analyzed your writing style and diction thoroughly and have determined that your optimal career is that of a hotel elevator operator. your unique sense of discipline and inter-functionality of associations makes you ideal for punching buttons corresponding to different floors.

baby - my problem is that I don't know what I want to do, as far as I'm aware I've never had any goals or ambitions and I got into programming by following the path of least resistance. I don't know if I'd say it appeals but teaching might be a change that would at least allow me to use my previous experience.

Teaching definitely is a pretty good option that wouldn't be a 180 degree turn for you and wouldn't leave you working up from ground zero. Again, you'll need to do some planning: You may need to update your qualifications if you want to be a teacher. I'm not sure where you're located, but some schools will only hire you if you have the highest degree possible in your field, or at least an additional degree in education.

Thirty years ago, a woman named Barbara Sher wrote an awesome little book called Wishcraft. She's since written many other books dealing with career counseling, but I think that's still her best. It's definitely worth a look if you're not sure where to go from here. I should warn that, as great as the book is, it's not for people who do not have the motivation to put written plans into action. If you're one of these people (though, it doesn't sound like you are), you're probably better off staying where you are.

"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

The Socionics description you are talking about is the "INFp uncovered" description from the Socionics.com website, that is more tongue-in-cheek than anything else. (In fact, pretty much everything on Sergei Ganin's website needs to be taken with a grain of salt... actually better yet the entire salt-lick.) There is a reason you became a programmer. What is it? I think you need to take a moment to recollect why it was you entered this discipline in the first place? What about it attracted you? Imagine yourself as the impressionable, earnest person you were ten years ago. What were your ambitions? What were your priorities? Does your current position in the field allow you to fulfill those ambitions and priorities?

I don't encourage anyone to stay in a position that is causing him/her a "sense of impending doom" and stress that outweigh the benefits of keeping the job. But if you were to enter another career, what would it be? And why? (Don't say "Because that's what INFps are good at." Socionics can help explain phenomena, but not predict it. There's no telling how you'll do in another field. Also, we can't overlook the possibility that you may not actually be INFp. Testing is not an accurate indicator of type.) You don't want to lead yourself down another wrong turn again.

Before you do anything too hasty: plan, plan, plan. Worst case scenario: you DO get the sack. You'll need enough in monetary savings to get your through a period of job-hunting. It is much easier to enter into another subsect of your current field than enter into a whole different one, so don't overlook the possibility of finding another job within the same field. You may want to start thinking of possible intra-field career moves, now.

If you feel you can't continue in programming: You'll first of all need to know what it is you would like to pursue. You'll need an updated curriculum vitae for your new career. (You can't pursue counseling with a programming resume.) You may have to go back to school. (You'll need to consider what sort of school you need to go to, and have in mind a means of paying for it. Perhaps taking on a job within your current field to foot the bill, and go to night-school.)

Good luck. You seem pretty conscientious, so I'm sure you'll do fine with whatever decision you make.

God, Auvi, sometimes I just love you

But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...

for me it was a crisis of meaning and one which revolved around how much of my work was a part of my identity. "it's all been done before." realizing the truth of this idea is anathema to an entp. priorities was the other thing. i'm being kind of vague here, but if you want pm me.

Re: Newbie poster - Bad career choice?

Originally Posted by happs

Hi,

Looking over the preferred career-types for infps there are certainly some that appeal, has anyone else been in a non-suitable career and made a change one more suited to there type and whats been your experiences?

Writing anything (although writing poetry will not make you money), screenplays and such are good as well as fiction. So is advertising.

Politics, but more on the face time, getting people to think what you want/motivating people side than on the should we give seven dollars to China and eight to Japan, or eight dollars to China and seven to Japan side.

Advertising, or anywhere where it's important to be good with words. Being a staff writer for any sort of organization would involve this (you know, someone who writes press releases and such)

Of course, being an English teacher, either at the high school or college levels.

Anything performance-related: IEIs can make great actors, singers, even dancers, although we have to work harder at dance (fewer IEIs have the kind of natural aptitude for dance as they tend to with communication emotion with means besides just the body, in my experience, precisely because dancing is so much with the body and physical). Working in other areas of the entertainment business could be good for an IEI too: producing, even directing (although you have to have a particular style and some sort of generalized power to hire and fire that you refer to occasionally, because IEIs are not so great at forcing people to do stuff by sheer force of will, in general).

An IEI could even be a doctor or such, if he or she really wanted to be, although I don't know that I'd trust an INFp as my surgeon (jk).

Law is another good one, because law is so much involved with language (and the manipulation and twisting thereof).

In general, IEIs are best at doing something creative and artistic, and barring that, something that requires being good with words for other reasons. Also things that rely on affecting others' emotions; an IEI, if he or she is soulless enough (kidding... sorta), can make a great lobbyist or some such. Then IEIs can also be good in areas that sort of "surround" those creative and artistic fields; an IEI can be a good bridge between the purely practical execs in suits (many of whom are SLE, SEE, ILI), and the creatives (many of whom are NFs or Alphas SFs)

i'm double majoring in physics and psychology, i'm planning to get a master's in counseling. then i want to pursue theoretical physics and study gravity; i'll likely teach for the rest of my life. that would suit me.

IEIs would probably enjoy and do well in (in no particular order):
any field of psychology but especially counseling or behavioral analysis
social work
childhood development
teaching
music
art of any sort
religious/clerical work
science (Ni and Ti are a plus, Fe only really helps with the enthusiasm but not with understanding concepts)

personally i think EIIs are more suited for the clerical/religious work, music, arts, literature, english composition and other liberal studies. IEIs have a bit more in common with ILIs than EIIs i think.

Writing anything (although writing poetry will not make you money), screenplays and such are good as well as fiction. So is advertising.

Politics, but more on the face time, getting people to think what you want/motivating people side than on the should we give seven dollars to China and eight to Japan, or eight dollars to China and seven to Japan side.

Advertising, or anywhere where it's important to be good with words. Being a staff writer for any sort of organization would involve this (you know, someone who writes press releases and such)

Of course, being an English teacher, either at the high school or college levels.

Anything performance-related: IEIs can make great actors, singers, even dancers, although we have to work harder at dance (fewer IEIs have the kind of natural aptitude for dance as they tend to with communication emotion with means besides just the body, in my experience, precisely because dancing is so much with the body and physical). Working in other areas of the entertainment business could be good for an IEI too: producing, even directing (although you have to have a particular style and some sort of generalized power to hire and fire that you refer to occasionally, because IEIs are not so great at forcing people to do stuff by sheer force of will, in general).

An IEI could even be a doctor or such, if he or she really wanted to be, although I don't know that I'd trust an INFp as my surgeon (jk).

Law is another good one, because law is so much involved with language (and the manipulation and twisting thereof).

In general, IEIs are best at doing something creative and artistic, and barring that, something that requires being good with words for other reasons. Also things that rely on affecting others' emotions; an IEI, if he or she is soulless enough (kidding... sorta), can make a great lobbyist or some such. Then IEIs can also be good in areas that sort of "surround" those creative and artistic fields; an IEI can be a good bridge between the purely practical execs in suits (many of whom are SLE, SEE, ILI), and the creatives (many of whom are NFs or Alphas SFs)

i definitely agree with all of this. IEIs would make great medical practitioners!

personally i think EIIs are more suited for the clerical/religious work, music, arts, literature, english composition and other liberal studies. IEIs have a bit more in common with ILIs than EIIs i think.

Eh... I dunno. Might not be worth the tradeoff. Maybe if I could do it with a quarter of my brain (metaphorically speaking). But I don't know if I could stand to give forty hours a week for twenty years to something that was actively boring. I want a job that is at least moderately stimulating, even if the pay is only so-so. But then, it is important to me to have time to work on all my whatever stuff. But I don't think I'll ever stop writing no matter what I do. Shrug.

Just wanted to throw this into the mix: The Case for Working With Your Hands by Matthew B. Crawford. He's a really fascinating guy -- a University of Chicago graduate who now teaches at UVA and runs his own motorcycle shop. Also, here you can find his 2006 essay that later became a book, Shop Class as Soulcraft.

High-school shop-class programs were widely dismantled in the 1990s as educators prepared students to become “knowledge workers.” The imperative of the last 20 years to round up every warm body and send it to college, then to the cubicle, was tied to a vision of the future in which we somehow take leave of material reality and glide about in a pure information economy. This has not come to pass. To begin with, such work often feels more enervating than gliding. More fundamentally, now as ever, somebody has to actually do things: fix our cars, unclog our toilets, build our houses.

When we praise people who do work that is straightforwardly useful, the praise often betrays an assumption that they had no other options. We idealize them as the salt of the earth and emphasize the sacrifice for others their work may entail. Such sacrifice does indeed occur — the hazards faced by a lineman restoring power during a storm come to mind. But what if such work answers as well to a basic human need of the one who does it? I take this to be the suggestion of Marge Piercy’s poem “To Be of Use,” which concludes with the lines “the pitcher longs for water to carry/and a person for work that is real.” Beneath our gratitude for the lineman may rest envy.

"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

Yeah, I really liked it. I don't actually know what I want to do beyond the next year, but that article confirmed for me what I don't want to do.

"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet