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Well I can give you examples of films that are "good" - but whether they are good in absolute quality or merely good for their time remains to be seen. After all, if the movies are modern we still are in their time and only time will tell.

Though it is an interesting debate - take for example my "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" example. That might have been a groundbreaking and scandalous thing to say in its time, but in a modern setting where culture has changed so drastically, it is kind of lame. That's why it bugs me so much when people set it on a pedestal among the absolute greatest lines ever. When you consider all the movies and all the lines that have happened since then, it doesn't even rate in the top 100.

Well I can give you examples of films that are "good" - but whether they are good in absolute quality or merely good for their time remains to be seen. After all, if the movies are modern we still are in their time and only time will tell.

Though it is an interesting debate - take for example my "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" example. That might have been a groundbreaking and scandalous thing to say in its time, but in a modern setting where culture has changed so drastically, it is kind of lame. That's why it bugs me so much when people set it on a pedestal among the absolute greatest lines ever. When you consider all the movies and all the lines that have happened since then, it doesn't even rate in the top 100.

I don't know, it might just be that I love Gone with The Wind more than any other film, but that line is still quite badass to me. Well, badass isn't really the right word, but you understand what I mean, yes? I'd be horrified to hear that the person I wanted most in the word said that they didn't give a damn about me.

OK, let's reverse it then. Can you give some examples of 'good' films that were made before 1990? (As opposed to 'good for their time' films.)

Brazil is a good film, I think, as are other Terry Gilliam films like The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. And the Monty Python movies, of course. People can, and do, still quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail and get laughs.

There's also Jaws, Diabolique, and lots of Hitchcock's films which will keep you in genuine suspense. Then there are old movies that you think will be throwaway, typical films from their time which manage to surprise you. That happened when I watched The Teahouse of the August Moon which was rather good (even if it did have Marlon Brando in yellowface). Not great, but still good.

Brazil is a good film, I think, as are other Terry Gilliam films like The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. And the Monty Python movies, of course. People can, and do, still quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail and get laughs.

There's also Jaws, Diabolique, and lots of Hitchcock's films which will keep you in genuine suspense. Then there are old movies that you think will be throwaway, typical films from their time which manage to surprise you. That happened when I watched The Teahouse of the August Moon which was rather good (even if it did have Marlon Brando in yellowface). Not great, but still good.

Brazil was good. It has its merits. Dunno if I'd watch it repeatedly.

I really did not enjoy Munchausen though. Might have had a different effect if I knew the source material.

Ergh I have been so damn busy these last few days. Kramer vs Kramer was the example that immediately sprang to mind (I finally saw it the other day, after buying the DVD months ago and it was fantastic) and the only other one I can think of is Shirley Valentine which is not something I think anybody would have heard of.

I think good for their time films are things that were influential and popular at the time, but now just aren't as enjoyable. Films like Casablanca and Gone With the Wind will always be timelessly enjoyable. What always springs to mind for me is Citizen Kane, influential yes, but it is just not enjoyable at all and I would definitely not watch it again. I'm always disappointed when it tops "best of all time" lists, or if modern film makers cite it as an influence. It was influential for years afterwards yes, but still? It's like how every single band in the world say they were influenced by The Beatles just for the sake of it.

Things like Psycho or And Then There Were None as well I think, would have been scary at the time, now they're more like an unintentional comedy.

Brazil is a good film, I think, as are other Terry Gilliam films like The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. And the Monty Python movies, of course. People can, and do, still quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail and get laughs.

I'm not a massive Python fan, but I absolutely love Brazil. So madcap and witty and it goes against everything one would expect in a futuristic sci-fi movie with its art direction. It's been a while since I've seen it, but it has a special place in my heart.

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Originally Posted by Scarf

There's also Jaws, Diabolique, and lots of Hitchcock's films which will keep you in genuine suspense. Then there are old movies that you think will be throwaway, typical films from their time which manage to surprise you. That happened when I watched The Teahouse of the August Moon which was rather good (even if it did have Marlon Brando in yellowface). Not great, but still good.

I know what you mean about 'throwaway' films from a bygone era. For me, the best example of that would be something like Holiday from 1940. Despite being light and frothy when watching, it has a real staying power that lingers long after one has ejected the DVD from the computer (in my case, at least...)

Ugh, Psycho never interested me at all. I've seen it... but it just never thrilled/shocked me or even got close to living up to it's legendary film status. I saw it just so I could say that I've seen it and to be honest, I almost regret seeing it.

Nick and Greg are the only two original characters that are still around. I think Sarah came back but I haven't been following CSI at all since Grissom left. :c It just hasn't been the same since to since then I've moved on to Criminal Minds and Psych.

Speaking of Criminal Minds it's great that it was renewed! Now I just hope they don't have any problems with the actors like that did last season.

The only one of those renewals I care about is The Good Wife. In another year, I might have cared about HIMYM or BBT, but I've just lost interest completely in both those shows, so I don't anymore. But still... yay Good Wife!

So back in the day I used to be into a lot of indie pop/rock type stuff (I guess that's what you would call it) but I kinda stopped keeping tabs on it lately.

Does anybody know of some good, kinda unheard of, upbeat pop/rock?

An example of music i'm looking for would be Vibe by Coyote Theory, which is a band I just recently heard of:

Key word here is upbeat. I'd rather not hear the sad, heart broken songs. :P
I need something that's going to keep me pumped while i'm working on art!

I love these guys! This is my favorite song. c: Um, if you go in Rise Records channel on YouTube, you might find some good Pop Punk, don't know if you're looking for that. Try Transit, they're pretty good, even though I don't really listen to that kind of music.

Hands Like Houses just released their full-length album and I recommend it to EVERYONE! Don't worry, they don't scream. ;)

Here's my favorite song off the album (Matty Mullins from Memphis May Fire does guest vocals; 0:45 - 1:00):

That's the basic crux of a lot of American TV, so it shouldn't be too difficult to see why people would stop liking a show. Most shows go on until the ratings no longer merit the continued production, and this is usually because the stories and characters have become so diluted that they no longer have the spark that originally captured people's interest in the first place.

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In another year, I might have cared about HIMYM or BBT, but I've just lost interest completely in both those shows, so I don't anymore.

HIMYM has been bothering me so much this season. I was like the only person in my group of friends that somehow didn't think Robin being sterile was sad. It's hard to feel bad for her when she's literally dancing about the fact that she isn't pregnant just minutes earlier in that episode. Not to mention going back to the Robin and Ted story yet again, it's just redundant at this point. Though I do like that for once it seems we might be getting a major development as far as that story goes, even if it should have come a season or two earlier.

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What always springs to mind for me is Citizen Kane, influential yes, but it is just not enjoyable at all and I would definitely not watch it again. I'm always disappointed when it tops "best of all time" lists, or if modern film makers cite it as an influence. It was influential for years afterwards yes, but still?

It strikes me as a pretty good film in general, not even just as a "for its time" sort of thing. I know there are a lot of folks who don't see Citizen Kane because of its reputation, and I was kinda one of those folks, but it's a pretty cool film.

I mean, yeah, there's the context of this movie essentially being a sort of trolling of a mogul who controlled most of Hollywood at the time and it also sort of gives you a window into Orson Welles' life, but I think it's still a fairly solid and enjoyable film beyond that. Visually it's just this very dynamic piece of work that has shots (the arching down shot for instance) that continue to be impressive even compared to a lot of films today, there's a craftsmanship in there that's been lost. The opening of the film is something I could see people getting a little lost with, but it actually does a fairly good job of pulling you in. To me it's not a really good film in the artistic art house sense, it's quite an entertaining film in general and I've always found that it stands the test of time pretty great.

Either way, it can continue to be an influence because it influences film makers who influence film makers who influence film makers, so a lot of it sort of ties back to it. And in general, a lot of people do go and watch it and still find themselves being able to draw influence from it. Yeah, you shouldn't like a film just because it's a classic and it's forced on you, but at the same time, I think a lot of them are classics and influential for a reason. I think people should just watch those films whenever they get the urge to because then the perspective is probably going to be their own, not marred by bias of having people tell you it's a classic you should love.

There are a ton of classics I don't like, Casablanca, The Wizard of Oz, and Gone With the Wind that I don't find myself enjoying a lot while I think something like Black Moon Rising can be considered classic, but I think Citizen Kane is probably the definition of what a classic film should be.

I mean, yeah, there's the context of this movie essentially being a sort of trolling of a mogul who controlled most of Hollywood at the time and it also sort of gives you a window into Orson Welles' life, but I think it's still a fairly solid and enjoyable film beyond that. Visually it's just this very dynamic piece of work that has shots (the arching down shot for instance) that continue to be impressive even compared to a lot of films today, there's a craftsmanship in there that's been lost. The opening of the film is something I could see people getting a little lost with, but it actually does a fairly good job of pulling you in. To me it's not a really good film in the artistic art house sense, it's quite an entertaining film in general and I've always found that it stands the test of time pretty great. Either way, it can continue to be an influence because it influences film makers who influence film makers who influence film makers, so a lot of it sort of ties back to it.

Definitely agree with you on a lot here, it just isn't what I (and a lot of people) look for in a lot of films. When I watch a film most of the time I'm looking for a balance of entertainment and artistic quality, when a film tips over the fence into one of those categories too far I just can't enjoy it. I can understand other people enjoying it, but would you say it's the #1 best film of all time?

I just feel at the time it was obviously so much more important. Now I can watch films like Persona or To Kill a Mockingbird and enjoy them so much more; those films were inspired by Citizen Kane, definitely, but when it comes to choosing a classic film to watch when you're in the 21st century, these films just seem to stand the test of time a lot better.

Going back to my Beatles analogy, it's like people grabbing the first Beatles album, because it is the first Beatles album. It's good, but everyone's real favourite is still Abbey Road or the White Album. And for an art analogy, it's the Mona Lisa of the film world; not many people would hang a replica of the Mona Lisa on their wall, but everyone appreciates it.

People look at media of the past and see in such a better light than those of the past. If Citizen Kane didn't turn out to be as important was it was, it would have been forgotten amongst a sea of countless films out there. It's also possible that half the innovative ideas credited to CK were even done beforehand, CK was just the first film to use those techniques and be recognised at the same time. This is just baseless speculating here, but it is not very unlikely seeing as such things happen often.

I still don't see how people can lose interest in shows. When I commit to a show it's til death do us part.

Lord forbid people coming to a realization that the show they're watching is crap, or that they just don't have the energy to watch it anymore. I had that with LOST. At first I loved the show, but after the third season I just couldn't handle it anymore and got tired of trying to keep up with it's crazy plot line.

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