We are a global thought center operating an executive MBA program, as well as open and custom corporate learning programs, for leadership in the creative industries. The Berlin School of Creative Leadership serves top executives and creatives in advertising, design, entertainment, marketing, media, publishing and technology. With faculty and students from around the world, the school gives a unique global view into leadership and management issues for creative industries. The school has a special vantage point into building creative cultures and delivering innovation for companies big or small, with the goal of helping achieve creative excellence and business success. To learn more, check out To learn more, check out @BerlinSchool and http://www.berlin-school.com/

Great Minds On Music: An Interview With Sir John Hegarty On Music In Advertising

Hegarty: I wanted to put “I Heard It Through the Grapevine” on it, even though people told me it was too fast, it wouldn’t work. I insisted because I wanted to say to the audience: “There’s a message about this brand that I want you to listen to.” There was a loose connection with the lyrics, but not too obvious. And it somehow found the rhythm of the film. So: find the connection between the music and the story, then find the rhythm of the piece. But having said all that, it’s elusive.

Reese: Did you ever sit down and write an audio style guide for Levi’s? Was there a set of rules about handling music on the brand?

Hegarty: No – we didn’t. We talked about it, because we used to burn our brains out trying to get the right music for each film. But we always wanted to be surprising. The problem with 501s was that we were in the fashion business, but we were selling a product that stayed the same. So each ad had to be a new fashion statement. In a sense, when you bought a new pair of 501s, you were buying the ad. It worked like a fashion show: this is the new look. It had to be a different story, expressed in a new way, with a very different piece of music. If we had written a style guide, we would have fallen into a formula. And then we would have been dead.

Reese: The formula was that there was no formula.

Hegarty: The formula was to surprise ourselves. Sometimes we had to fight for our ideas. For a film called “Swimmer” we put on “Mad About the Boy,” a Noel Coward song sung by Dinah Washington. Levi’s were concerned that it wasn’t fashionable enough. But we told them: “You’re the trendsetter. If you use this song, it will be fashionable.” I remember there was a great concern in France, where the ads were primarily shown on MTV. Later we heard that Levi’s was getting amazing results in France – because kids loved the ad on MTV. We had to constantly push the envelope. If we had decided, “It always has to be R&B”, the whole thing would have collapsed.

Reese: There is no question music can affect consumer behavior and positively impact a brand. We have the quantitative data to prove it. But putting a monetary value on music…really knowing how much it’s worth…continues to be a question. Should there be a way of defining return on investment when it comes to music? So that the right budget can be devoted to it?

Hegarty: Fortunately, with Levi’s we had a client who realized that they had to invest in music – we won that battle. In fact we got to the point where record companies knew that if their track went onto a Levi’s commercial, they would sell huge amounts of CDs. We could almost negotiate a cut of the extra sales.

Reese: So everyone was on your side.

Hegarty: You have to say to the client, “Give us the time and the budget to get the music right.” I’ve had many clients who balked at going over budget for a track – even though it was going to make the film 10 or 20 times better. Bear in mind they’ve already spent half a million making it, and they’re then going to spend another $10 or $15 million getting it out there. Why wouldn’t they spend a bit more on a piece of music that will make it brilliant? It’s because most clients want communication to be a science. If you could give them a precise formula that would guarantee a certain result, they would love it. They don’t like the fact that salesmanship is an art.

Reese: So you have to sell it to them first.

Hegarty: You can tell them that, based on your experience, it should work, but you can’t show them the ROI figures in advance. All you can do is say: “This track will make the film brilliant.” But even though it’s a paltry amount within the overall budget, they won’t spend the money. Because they don’t feel that difference. And it is about feel.

Reese: If I could offer you a way to measure the return on investment on music in a branded environment, predictively, would you want that?

Hegarty: Yes, but I’m not sure I’d really believe it to be absolutely honest. I’m always trying to do something different – I believe in the power of difference. And the problem with measurement is that it looks backwards: “We did this and this, and the result was this – so we should do the same.” But life changes. The world changes. The piece of music that was perfect back then may be irrelevant now. A lot of successful companies fail because at a certain point they just keep on doing the same thing.

Reese: Do you believe that brands should develop a recognizable sonic identity? Like McDonald’s and Intel, for example?

Post Your Comment

Post Your Reply

Forbes writers have the ability to call out member comments they find particularly interesting. Called-out comments are highlighted across the Forbes network. You'll be notified if your comment is called out.