Zitat:
Zitat von gschwind11:
got for the first time that special feel when you are breaking the way down with the upcoming pedals... Can you please explain? I am confused about what you are describing. Were you going up or down a hill when you had that feeling?

hi elpueblo, I was talking of the feel when unicycling downwards and
braking with the pedals (with pressure on the upcoming padels)

Does anyone have a reference explaining the body movements needed to ride without using at least one arm for balance?

Here's a gross simplification: Imagine a flexible bar of some length. One end is clamped to a base, and the rest of the bar sticks straight up. Pull and release the top of the bar, and it will vibrate back and forth, with the maximum displacement at the top. That is the first mode of vibration. It corresponds to arms-for-balance unicycle riding.

The second mode of vibration involves fixing both ends of the bar, then pulling and releasing the center-point of the bar. This corresponds to hands-on-handle-bars-hips-shifting riding. The maximum displacement of the second vibrating mode is in the center of the bar.

I don't think a 36er is the best unicycle to learn this form of riding. I don't know to what extent the rotation mass of a large wheel contributes to maintaining balance on a 36er with hands on the bar ends. If you can learn to get both hands on the seat of a 20", doing so on a 36" will come naturally, I'm guessing.

I'm not a particularly good unicyclist, but I've practiced a lot both-hands-on. Keeping both hands on the seat, I can idle, ride forward and backwards figure eights, do a still-stand for 3-5 seconds and ride a curb for more than 50 feet.

Does anyone have a reference explaining the body movements needed to ride without using at least one arm for balance?

Jim

Jim: I think the arm were created so the hands might reach the saddle horn or work the lariat while riding unicycles, not for flailing.

As one improves learning to turn on a unicycle they may want to learn to turn by adjusting wheel contact with riding surface instead of "jerking" the wheel to turn by body movement and outside leg thrusts. Then arm flailing may become not necessary.

A wheel in motion will turn toward the side with an angle less than perpendicular to the riding surface. Increase the angle and the turning force will increase.

Then body movement becomes necessary to "balance" or "unbalance" to maintain, increase, or decrease this angle to turn harder, less hard, or end the turn by retuning the wheel to perpendicular.

Body movement may be any combination of flailing, swimming, leaning twisting, angling of torso or hips, or whatever suits your style or lack of style/skill. I prefer to use as little wasted movement as possible and try to make others think I have some style/skill and gracefulness. If you prefer to look like an albatross landing no need to read any further.

For me as the wheel size or height of giraffe increases the easier it is to accomplish. But these techniques apply to any wheel size.

As I got better at turning and counter turning to start turns I was able to stop flailing and swimming as I ride.

Eventually I also learned to shift the seat between my legs/thighs to "leverage" turning, counter turning, and riding on side slopes (traverses and road camber). That has enabled me to ride 200+ miles in 24 hours point to point road rides all on road camber (often riding 40, 50, or 60 miles with out stopping).

Motorcycles and bicycles turn easiest if the rider counter steers left to go right or right to go left. This "unbalancing" sets up the desired wheel angle for the actual turn and then "balancing" over the wheel maintains the angle until the desired turn is accomplished. Then "unbalance" and over steer to return the wheel angle to perpendicular to the riding surface. You may choose to learn how to apply these same techniques to riding unicycles.

I had to force myself to leave my "comfort zone" and "master" my arms. Then I decided to "master" other things, like juggling on a 36 for several hundred successive catches, or crossing mountain bike race finish lines juggling. Or riding steep downhill mountain bike races in high gear pushing through a squealing brake in tight banked turns with both hands on the saddle horn switching braking hands while being passes by Pro/Open mountain bike racers. Flailing and swimming just had to go!

You are smart to ride on different surfaces. Exposing yourself to different riding conditions will help you discover different muscles, different methods of balance, that you may not have been already aware of. Keep it fresh!

Hi folks,... this is day 22...
So after good 3 weeks of unicycling I am really happy to be able to unicycle a bit offroad too... even if my unicycle isn't made for that... it's a 20" profi from QU-AX with very hard pressure in the tires (no muni unfortunately :-)
However I didn't care and just tried over and over again down that little slope we have just beside the basketball-place.
The cool thing is that I start getting the feel to really lean to the inside of the curves.... it's so much fun.... I attached a photo from todays "workout".... yeah I still call it a workout as I am always totally sweaty after 1 hour

Thank you all for helping me so much during my beginning time of unicycling!!!
Have a good week all of you!.... I will unfortunately be in Sweden on a businesstrip and cannot take the unicycle with me...
Cheers from Zurich

[QUOTE=UPD;1686057....The steering is sort of like skiing or bicycling without poles or use of hands. The steering is upper body isolated and very subtle, with a slight shift of the weight, I believe on the hips. The upper body especially , I train my shoulders to stay still and square......[/QUOTE]

Jim: I think the arm were created so the hands might reach the saddle horn or work the lariat while riding unicycles, not for flailing.

As one improves learning to turn on a unicycle they may want to learn to turn by adjusting wheel contact with riding surface instead of "jerking" the wheel to turn by body movement and outside leg thrusts. Then arm flailing may become not necessary.

A wheel in motion will turn toward the side with an angle less than perpendicular to the riding surface. Increase the angle and the turning force will increase.

Then body movement becomes necessary to "balance" or "unbalance" to maintain, increase, or decrease this angle to turn harder, less hard, or end the turn by retuning the wheel to perpendicular.

Body movement may be any combination of flailing, swimming, leaning twisting, angling of torso or hips, or whatever suits your style or lack of style/skill. I prefer to use as little wasted movement as possible and try to make others think I have some style/skill and gracefulness. If you prefer to look like an albatross landing no need to read any further.

For me as the wheel size or height of giraffe increases the easier it is to accomplish. But these techniques apply to any wheel size.

As I got better at turning and counter turning to start turns I was able to stop flailing and swimming as I ride.

Eventually I also learned to shift the seat between my legs/thighs to "leverage" turning, counter turning, and riding on side slopes (traverses and road camber). That has enabled me to ride 200+ miles in 24 hours point to point road rides all on road camber (often riding 40, 50, or 60 miles with out stopping).

Motorcycles and bicycles turn easiest if the rider counter steers left to go right or right to go left. This "unbalancing" sets up the desired wheel angle for the actual turn and then "balancing" over the wheel maintains the angle until the desired turn is accomplished. Then "unbalance" and over steer to return the wheel angle to perpendicular to the riding surface. You may choose to learn how to apply these same techniques to riding unicycles.

I had to force myself to leave my "comfort zone" and "master" my arms. Then I decided to "master" other things, like juggling on a 36 for several hundred successive catches, or crossing mountain bike race finish lines juggling. Or riding steep downhill mountain bike races in high gear pushing through a squealing brake in tight banked turns with both hands on the saddle horn switching braking hands while being passes by Pro/Open mountain bike racers. Flailing and swimming just had to go!

Joe,
Don't tell me you are posting on this forum and riding the STP at the very same time.

Thanks for the detailed ideas. My current objective is to move from an arm balancing method to the more subtle control method. I did not realize that the road camber would have that much effect. I just need to get out and put on some miles.
Jim

... A wheel in motion will turn toward the side with an angle less than perpendicular to the riding surface. Increase the angle and the turning force will increase.
Then body movement becomes necessary to "balance" or "unbalance" to maintain, increase, or decrease this angle to turn harder, less hard, or end the turn by retuning the wheel to perpendicular...

hi Joe,

this is nearly a lesson in vectorphysics / kinematics... great!
Well, you have been so very detailed in your post so one could nearly print it in a book for pros
I mean this full seriously... great post!

I think I understood your points but when unicycling yesterday I realized that it really is important to have a certain speed to being able to lean inwards so that the wheel / surface-angle gets less that 90 degrees.

I am 1.82m tall and learn to unicycle on a 20" modell... and I sometimes have the feeling that a bigger wheelsize would be better for me... the pedalmovements are getting so incredibly fast when you want to reach a certain speed...
Can this be the case?

Ok, I am only riding since 3 weeks now but I have so much fun on the unicycle so that I already think what unicycle would be perfect for me in the near future... because I absolutely want to get in to muniriding (and crosscountry).
The 27.5" size seems to be a good solution maybe?
What do you think?

I'm 1.70 meters and 66.7 kg. For muni I preferred 24 inch geared for several years. Then forced a move up to 26 geared for two years. But with 26 almost never in high gear on the same downhill trails and events I do. This last year I moved up to 29 inch single speed for all muni (all my Schlumph gears are defective, broke, or wore out).

To me a 29 single speed is faster on muni but I hate the 29 for pavement and anywhere I can ride 36. The 29 is harder for me uphill muni technical climbing. But I am getting good at technical steep downhill muni. It can be harder to "force" around tight turns so I might end up with a hopping turn on real tight switch backs. I don't do "big" drops (I'm 60 years old and the only wage earner) but some who ride 29 do.

The 27.5 wasn't available until I had already move up to the 29. You might really enjoy the 27.5. Everyone's opinions on these forums will be "strongly" voiced now that you have asked. "Serious muni" has no qualifiers here either. Kris Holm is really pushing the 27.5. It will become the go to size for awhile.

Check out this 27.5" Link. The discussion covers a few points: The 27.5" isn't really that, it's a 650B, only 12mm larger in diameter than a 26". Depending on the tire, the outside diameter between a 26" and 27.5" may be minimal. Sounds like the bike industry is moving toward more 27.5" (650B) size rims, which should result in good tire selection for mUni.

Tholub mentioned a lower center or gravity for a 26" compared to a larger wheel. That change is significant for me when comparing my 26" and 29" mUni. I feel more connected to my 26", while I feel more perched atop, and more likely to be knocked off my perch... on the 29". I can ride in many conditions on both my 26" and 29", but I think I would not be able to ride them on the 29"... had I not first learned them on 26". There are still tons of tire choices for 26". The 26" size has been the most commonly ridden on group events, here in Southern California. There are many hills I can ride on 26" that I wouldn't be able to do on a larger wheel.

If you're looking at the Qu-ax 27.5" Muni, they are using a new type of crank/hub interface called "q-axle". The industry standard for unicycles is currently ISIS. While ISIS is not perfect, you will have more crank choices and the ability to more easily swap cranks... if you stick with this specification.

so... I was 1 week on a businesstrip....unfortunately there was no unycycling
However... in the evenings at the hotel I have been looking at many interesting muni videos...
And yeah I really think that the 27.5" would be an amazing size for me (1.82m and 80 kg).... we'll see... I will certainly go on training as much as possible on my 20" Qu-AX the coming weeks.
I have indeed ordered 2 alternative pedals to the original ones:

- Kris Holms DX plastic studded
- Odyssey twisted PC

It will be interesting to feel the difference!
My plan is to also buy a pair of real MTB shoes...
Thought about the FiveTen Freerider pro ... unfortunately they are not available in Switzerland (unless online).... but We will start our vacation in the UK the coming friday.... there I'll be able to buy them..... YES

I understood that a really good pedal feel is a combination of both good pedals and good shoes....

I own 5-10 Impacts and 5-10 Freeriders. They are very different. I use the Impacts for muni and the Freeriders on my 20". The big difference between the two shoes is the stiffness (or lack thereof) of the soles. The Impacts are stiff, good for long muni rides, where your riding style is heavy on the feet. The Freeriders, after a few weeks, were very soft and flexible in the soles. I'm able to feel the pedals underneath the soles of the Freeriders. I am more comfortable adjusting my foot position with the Freeriders. I have accidentally taken the Freeriders on long muni rides. They were comfortable enough, except for one thing: the soles of my feet were more tired after riding, because I had to more actively flex the muscles in the soles of my feet. As a beginner, I had many UPDs (not so many any more) which resulted in me kicking the ground pretty hard upon landing. The Impacts were definitely a better shoe for my klutzy learning stage. To address your quote, above, the Impacts are more of a real MTB shoe, to my understanding, than the Freeriders.

I stopped in the LBS (local bike store) the other day. They had a terrible selection of 26" tires. But there were many 27.5" choices. I normally order parts from UDC (unicycle.com). On the Internet, there are plenty of 26" choices for tires, but I didn't realize, until the other day, how 27.5" is taking over the MTB world. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to go with the 27.5" (650B) size.

Wow... you seem to collect the fifetens .... they are obviously good quality i guess...
Well thank's for this details about differences in the impact and the freerider model. I quickly checked on the fiveten homepage and realized that they seemed to have changed modelnames.
I cannot find impacts anymore.... suppose it is the Sam Hill 3... and the freerider has most likely got the name Hellcat???

I am pretty hard on my shoes. My first pair of Impacts were the older model. Within a year, the sole and the upper were separating. And I tear up the inside of the shoe where it rubs up against the crank. Then I bought a more updated model of the Impact. I had to apply a lot of shoe glue to keep them from falling apart. I still think, despite the problems, that 5-10s are good shoes. When a shoe is made to be stiff, like the Impact, it can tear itself apart over time. My (somewhat newer) Freeriders, on the other hand, are flexible, and they seem to be wearing much more nicely.

I think the older Impacts are still produced. They are, I think, more durable than the newer ones. Good luck!

hi folks,.... today is day 23 since my start...
(had a break because of a 1 week trip to Sweden),

Well, I just came home from my unitraining... and yes, there is new progress which is such a lot of fun for me.
I for the first time managed to ride 1 whole kilometer without stop... and I felt quite relaxed even if the 22" uni just goes at the rpm limit when doing tours like this.... I wouldn't be surprised if I would dream about my desired 27.5 er tonight

It's interesting... I remember having had similar effects in windsurfing and snowboarding... after a break of some days it always got a step ahead on the following training... as if the brain has continued training in the meantime... which maybe is true.

So I'm looking forward to the coming days...
I also started with my first trials on backwards unicycling today... just up to 2 whole weelturns... cool feeling indeed, I'm just a bit unsure about how to easiest get of in case of UPD

I also started with my first trials on backwards unicycling today... just up to 2 whole weelturns... cool feeling indeed, I'm just a bit unsure about how to easiest get of in case of UPD

If you are concerned about falling on your tail bone, there are special shorts you can buy with tail bone protection. Put them under your regular shorts; they will make you look like you have a big butt.

Beginners tend to mount, ride as long as possible, then UPD. Now that you can ride long distances sans-UPD, you might focus more on mounting, riding for short distances, then making controlled dismounts. This should help you dismount more safely while riding backwards.

My favorite place to practice new stuff, where I know I'll be falling down, is on the baseball diamond near my house. If I fall, I will slide a little bit when I land, rather than hitting the ground and sticking.

Glad to hear you improved after a break. I think that improvement would not have been possible, unless you'd already worked hard on the unicycle. Also, the experience you had in other balance sports must have helped. Last year, I took a three week break from unicycling after breaking my toe. When I returned, I wasn't better or worse, but I did have fresh ideas about practicing, and I was happy to be riding again!