guidelines for posting:
*post in a civil manner
*stay on topic
*be respectful of the passengers' families- no sleuthing of crew or passengers is allowed
*post only msm tweets and articles with links
*other forum links are not allowed
* for copyright compliance only 10% of an article is allowed to be posted

Members can create topic specific threads for in depth discussion, new developments in the case or as the need arises. New threads will go under mod review and a decision will be made whether to approve and open the thread for posting. Most threads are approved immediately.

Since we now know that the Indian Ocean is rough, and debris could be scattered thousands of miles, I have a question for the airplane knowledgeable and sea knowledgeable.

Could any part that radar could pick up have simply been being tossed in the sea? On one of the videos I've been watching on large plane crashes, one of the videos was thinking a plane crash was because of a missile. (30 years ago, still question as to bomb in toilet or missile.) However, when going through the radar the people looking at it realized that one thing they thought was a fighter plane, I can't remember if they originally thought 3 or 4, was actually a piece of the exploded airplane, not another aircraft.

Could that be what has happened here? Object on radar may be pieces? Possibly in the ocean or still disbursing and headed toward the ocean?

It would make sense out of the upward then downward and outward turn patterns. So would simply losing control and the plane just flying until it could not anymore though.

Jemaah Islamiyah
The al Qaeda-affiliated group, Jemaah Islamiyah, has a presence in Malaysia as well as in the Philippines and Indonesia. But the group has been under sustained law enforcement pressure for more than a decade after it bombed nightclubs on the Indonesian island of Bali in 2002, killing more than 200 people, mostly Western tourists. The group has also carried out bombings at the Australian Embassy in Indonesia and the JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton Hotels in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta. However, the capabilities of the once-potent Jemaah Islamiyah have eroded over time. And would Jemaah Islamiyah, an Islamist militant group, target for attack the air carrier of a majority Muslim country on which quite a number of Muslims were likely traveling? It is more plausible that the group would select a Western airline because Western embassies and Western brand-name hotels have been the focus of their previous attacks and plots.

East Turkestan Islamic Movement
A terrorist group that might have a motive is the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a separatist group in China founded by Uyghurs that has had some historical ties to al Qaeda and the Taliban. The Uyghurs are an ethnic group in western China who are Muslim. The group has conducted a number of terrorist attacks in China.

Uyghur
Uyghur terrorists might have a motive to hijack the Malaysia Airlines flight as it was bound for Beijing and most of the passengers were Chinese. But Uyghur militants have operated almost exclusively inside China. And when they have tried to mount hijackings in the past they have been complete flops. On March 9, 2008, a 19-year old Uyghur woman attempted to set off some kind of explosive device on a flight from the Xinjiang Uyghur region en route to Beijing. The flight crew detained the woman before she could detonate the device. Four year later, on June 29, 2012, half a dozen Uyghur men attempted to take control of an aircraft flying in the Xinjiang Uyghur region using pieces of a metal crutch that had been sharpened to make crude weapons. This plot was also foiled. Bolstering the view that Uyghur terrorists did not hijack the Malaysia Airlines flight, on Tuesday a Chinese official said that background checks on the passengers on the plane produced no evidence that any of the Chinese citizens on board were involved in terrorism.

"The working assumption is that it went south, and furthermore that it went to the southern end of that corridor," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The view is based on the lack of any evidence from countries along the northern corridor that the plane entered their airspace, and the failure to find any trace of wreckage in searches in the upper part of the southern corridor.

Some sources involved in the investigation have voiced fears it could be drifting towards deadlock due to the reluctance of countries in the region to share militarily sensitive radar data or allow full access to their territory.

"These are basically spy planes, that's what they were designed for," said one source close to the investigation, explaining the hesitance of some nations to allow maritime surveillance aircraft into their waters.

If this were a hijacking for political purposes, the hijacking would have been followed by an act designed to send a political message, such as the planes hijacked on 9/11 that were then flown into the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

Or there would be set of demands, as was the case with the Indian Airlines flight that was hijacked to Kandahar, Afghanistan, by militant Kashmiri separatists in December 1999. They demanded the release of leading militants in Indian jails, a demand to which the Indian government acceded.

Or there would be a credible claim of responsibility. The one claim of responsibility so far is from an outfit calling itself the Chinese Martyrs' Brigade. This claim is not deemed to be credible. Malaysian Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein told reporters last week: "There is no sound or credible grounds to justify their claims.'"

The deletions are not necessarily evidence of ill intent: Removing files from a computer is usually an innocent act repeated millions of times a day around the world.

But experts consulted by CNN said it's relatively unusual to delete such data from a simulator: The files are extremely small and are often kept by desktop pilots to gauge their progress, said Jay Leboff, owner of HotSeat, a simulator manufacturer.

"It would be suspicious to me, because there's no need to do it," he said.

"A local councillor on the island of Kudahuvadhoo has told the BBC that about 10 people described seeing a large aeroplane some hours after it disappeared."

" There were two Ukrainians and one Russian on the plane.
Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu also said some data had been deleted from the flight simulator found at captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's home on 3 February, and that investigators were trying to recover the deleted files.

Mr Hussein stressed the captain should be considered innocent until proven guilty and that members of his family were co-operating with the investigation. Deleting files would not necessarily be suspicious, particularly if it were to free up memory space."

If this were a hijacking for political purposes, the hijacking would have been followed by an act designed to send a political message, such as the planes hijacked on 9/11 that were then flown into the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

Or there would be set of demands, as was the case with the Indian Airlines flight that was hijacked to Kandahar, Afghanistan, by militant Kashmiri separatists in December 1999. They demanded the release of leading militants in Indian jails, a demand to which the Indian government acceded.

Or there would be a credible claim of responsibility. The one claim of responsibility so far is from an outfit calling itself the Chinese Martyrs' Brigade. This claim is not deemed to be credible. Malaysian Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein told reporters last week: "There is no sound or credible grounds to justify their claims.'"

"A local councillor on the island of Kudahuvadhoo has told the BBC that about 10 people described seeing a large aeroplane some hours after it disappeared."

" There were two Ukrainians and one Russian on the plane.
Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu also said some data had been deleted from the flight simulator found at captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's home on 3 February, and that investigators were trying to recover the deleted files.

Mr Hussein stressed the captain should be considered innocent until proven guilty and that members of his family were co-operating with the investigation. Deleting files would not necessarily be suspicious, particularly if it were to free up memory space."

Click to expand...

And then this (bbm):

They've received background checks on all nations with passengers on board with the exception of Russia and Ukraine, Hussein said.

Since we now know that the Indian Ocean is rough, and debris could be scattered thousands of miles, I have a question for the airplane knowledgeable and sea knowledgeable.

Could any part that radar could pick up have simply been being tossed in the sea? On one of the videos I've been watching on large plane crashes, one of the videos was thinking a plane crash was because of a missile. (30 years ago, still question as to bomb in toilet or missile.) However, when going through the radar the people looking at it realized that one thing they thought was a fighter plane, I can't remember if they originally thought 3 or 4, was actually a piece of the exploded airplane, not another aircraft.

Could that be what has happened here? Object on radar may be pieces? Possibly in the ocean or still disbursing and headed toward the ocean?

It would make sense out of the upward then downward and outward turn patterns. So would simply losing control and the plane just flying until it could not anymore though.

Click to expand...

You know I was just thinking - what if some country really did shoot the plane down after they saw it on radar? Maybe it was in some remote, unpopulated area so people didn't know.

Now the country is too afraid to admit it.

For example, what if it got into Diego Garcia's radar field? It's in the middle of the ocean at night, would anyone know if it was shot down? Even if it was legimate to shoot it down, certainly it wouldn't look good public-relations wise that US shot down a plane with 239 people, which orginated from a Muslim country. Of course, the plane would have been hijacked in the first place, that's why it was going on the wrong flight path, but how would people know that?? They would think it was just a mistake or something by the pilots, and the US shot it down for no reason. US would get most of the blame, even if there was something clearly nefarious going on.

Or what about the remote Western parts of China? China would certainly not want to admit to shooting down its own citizens! China would have most incentive to keep this quiet.

Or even India or Pakistan, although I think that would be harder due to the dense population. But maybe the northern parts?

The facts don't bear the assertions out. Turkish prof is on the ground in turkey. Guy on plane with same last name is an artist according to reports. Please post info relevant to mr. Annanm being highly trained and a person with these purported skills. Numbers were changed between the blurred manifest and full manifest. It is unclear why this misinformation keeps getting posted.

Sent from my LG-VS700 using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

Thank you!

Passenger 84 on Malaysia's list is NOT the same Passenger 84 on China's blurred list: the numbers are different (probably because of alphabetical differences?).

As far as professors taking flying lessons, I had at least three professors take flying lessons. I think many have the time, the intellect, and off-the-beaten-path interests that may lead them to pursue something like a pilot license.

In reference to the deleted files from the flight simulator, what if he had some not so good landings? Or if he was training what if these were files that students had take offs and landings that were practice. I guess deleting files is not sinister unless you go missing then everything would get looked at. jmo idk