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Granymer (Sp?) vs. Horde Prime

In his appearances in the classic He-Man cartoon, Granymer came across as more powerful than any other being on Eternia. He easily defeated He-Man. However, He-Man taught him some lessons in morals, and Granymer went from the typical arrogant dragon to a more good natured being. Certainly, he had become a force for good on Eternia.

In their shared appearances in the She-Ra cartoon, Hordak was downright snivelling in Horde Prime's presence. Clearly, Horde Prime could have defeated Hordak just as easily as Granymer had defeated He-Man.

So... who would win the one-on-one fight between the most powerful force of good on Eternia, and the most powerful force of evil from She-Ra's show?

"I'm not just crying for Hordak. I'm crying for the saddest thing I know - a wasted life. To be given that most precious gift - the gift of living, to do with as we choose. I'm crying, because this man has chosen to throw it away, and when he goes, nobody will care..." - She-Ra ( "My Friend, My Enemy")

Odd place for this as neither appeared in the new show (I suspect this thread might get moved to the classic forum), but it is an interesting idea. Granamyr has shown that he is immensely powerful in the past, while Horde Prime has an entire empire to back him up and thus far has remained untested. Granamyr is powerful, but he isn't the most powerful being in the universe. I'd probably go with Horde Prime utilising his forces and trickery to defeat Granamyr, but Granamyr would go down fighting and die a noble death.

Granamyr all powerfull in magic and Horde Prime in technology. We don't even know what Horde Prime looks like or what his size or power are. If I had to pick one I would have to go with Granamyr. He is a big dragon so he is a major physical force to deal with and the magic he has is so powerfull as well as his knowledge and wisdom as he is very old.

Here's the thing though, if Granamyr is stronger, why does he let a monster like Horde Prime continue to dominate and harm the universe? More importantly, if he's that powerful why do we even bother with He-Man or She-Ra as our heroes?

Granamyr isn't happy with humans, but he's not a cad who doesn't care about the suffering of non-dragon kind. I think he's annoyed with humans because they cause much of their own suffering (and the suffering of others). Naturally he'd be against Horde Prime, so there'd have to be a bigger reason for why he's not working against such a villain. Possibly he's wise enough to know that HP will destroy himself or that HP's destruction must happen at the hands of the people he oppresses (or else another tyrant will replace him for sure).

Mostly, I think it's like Yoda vs. the Emperor. It can't be a 'no contest' where our favorite hero can easily beat the bad guy. If that happens then there is no story.

As far as the new continuities goes, how about Horde Prime vs Granamyr vs Serpos? Or what about Sortech vs Horde Prime?

Brute strength i would have to side with Horde prime, but knowledge and magic granamyr has horde prime beat hands down.

in a battle i could see horde prime pulling out some weapon where it would neutralize granamyrs magic for a while and then lace some fists of fury into him. unless granamyr was ready and could counter it and just melt horde primes metal frame with his fire breath.

in the end.... it would depend on what type of battle either being physical or magical.

Men who crave power, look back on all their mistakes, pile them all together and call it destiny.- Sorceress

Here's the thing though, if Granamyr is stronger, why does he let a monster like Horde Prime continue to dominate and harm the universe? More importantly, if he's that powerful why do we even bother with He-Man or She-Ra as our heroes?

Granamyr isn't happy with humans, but he's not a cad who doesn't care about the suffering of non-dragon kind. I think he's annoyed with humans because they cause much of their own suffering (and the suffering of others). Naturally he'd be against Horde Prime, so there'd have to be a bigger reason for why he's not working against such a villain. Possibly he's wise enough to know that HP will destroy himself or that HP's destruction must happen at the hands of the people he oppresses (or else another tyrant will replace him for sure).

Mostly, I think it's like Yoda vs. the Emperor. It can't be a 'no contest' where our favorite hero can easily beat the bad guy. If that happens then there is no story.

As far as the new continuities goes, how about Horde Prime vs Granamyr vs Serpos? Or what about Sortech vs Horde Prime?

Granamyr doesn't interfere in the trifles of mortals..thats why we need he-man. as for why he doesn't go after horde prime, Granamyr is on eternia, HP never came to Eternia to threaten Dragon civilization...if he did HP would be toast. if HP was all that powerful then why bother relying on hordak to get rid of the rebellion? just do it yourelf after hordak failed for the umpteenth time.

Granamyr doesn't interfere in the trifles of mortals..thats why we need he-man. as for why he doesn't go after horde prime, Granamyr is on eternia, HP never came to Eternia to threaten Dragon civilization...if he did HP would be toast. if HP was all that powerful then why bother relying on hordak to get rid of the rebellion? just do it yourelf after hordak failed for the umpteenth time.

See, this is the attitude regarding Horde Prime that has always confused me. From my perspective Horde Prime doesn't take on Etheria himself (often anyway), for the simple reason that he has a GALACTIC SCALE empire and conquest to run.

He's DESIGNATED a warlord to take over Etheria (Hordak), and so it's HORDAK'S problem. Etheria might be a really cool world, but there's probably thousands of others in Horde Prime's grip that are equally important.

Etheria just happens to be guarded by a muscle-bound-alien-female-guardian who makes sure Hordak keeps embarassing himself over and over. The Horde WAS sitting pretty on Etheria before she showed up after all, it's not so much that Hordak (let alone HP) is weak or incompotent, She-Ra is just waaay over powered.

Upper management doesn't ever bother with the trival day-to-day details that mid-management and the worker-bees are there to deal with.

D/L

"I am convinced that the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones. For the common folks are like the leaves of a tree, and live and die unnoticed."

-The Scarecrow, The Marvelous Land of Oz.

Not only does it apply nicely to Masters, but is probably a deep truth.

See, this is the attitude regarding Horde Prime that has always confused me. From my perspective Horde Prime doesn't take on Etheria himself (often anyway), for the simple reason that he has a GALACTIC SCALE empire and conquest to run.

He's DESIGNATED a warlord to take over Etheria (Hordak), and so it's HORDAK'S problem. Etheria might be a really cool world, but there's probably thousands of others in Horde Prime's grip that are equally important.

Etheria just happens to be guarded by a muscle-bound-alien-female-guardian who makes sure Hordak keeps embarassing himself over and over. The Horde WAS sitting pretty on Etheria before she showed up after all, it's not so much that Hordak (let alone HP) is weak or incompotent, She-Ra is just waaay over powered.

Upper management doesn't ever bother with the trival day-to-day details that mid-management and the worker-bees are there to deal with.

D/L

And to be honest, aside from Bright Moon, the rebellion don't really free that much of Etheria, so Hordaks not doing that bad a job!

I think people get very focused on She-Ra kicking his butt episode after episode, and forget to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

As powerful as she is She-Ra has NOT freed Etheria (or even made any progress......granted that's because this is an episodic non-serial program ), and certainly has not made in progress against the BROADER Horde-threat.

Poor Hordak seems to have the worst case of love/hate reception from the fanbase (Toy vs Filmation vs MYP)

D/L

"I am convinced that the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones. For the common folks are like the leaves of a tree, and live and die unnoticed."

-The Scarecrow, The Marvelous Land of Oz.

Not only does it apply nicely to Masters, but is probably a deep truth.

To answer the original question I say the following:
Graynamyr is a maximum exponent of both magical and physical power, Horde Prime a tech-lord armed to the teeth. In hand to hand Graynamyr wins hands down...In a battle of arms Horde Prime.

Now as to the second theme that popped up, She-Ra's abilities vs. Hordak's incompetence...This really broils my blood ! A) Hordak isn't incompetent; he's arrogant and over-confident... no more so than Palpatine. So following that vein of logic let us view Adora as his Darth Vader but who reaches redemption earlier than expected. She is the pupil who bests the master, and I think the main is issue is that people of the "Masculine" persuasion cannot accept or logically process that a female pupil can outdo her MALE teacher. Sadly for the latter group Filmation has proven this wrong time and again...

Female characters from this creative force are very strong and capable. Adora's extra powers are simply a mixture of both sides: The feminine, the powerful.
Her sword changing is an expression of creativity and versatility and not an expression of weakness because as we see in "The Stone in the Sword" Adora has no need for them to function as warrior in her own right...however our beloved barbarian prince cannot even fight off Beastman sans his sword...not because he is unable but because he lacks the maturity and EXPERIENCE. Hordak's training gave Adora a valuable weapon against her teacher, Hordak will never best Horde Prime because he lacks that little edge just as he will easily be crushed by Skeletor.
The main difference is that to a male mind a mere "girl" cannot take on a guy physically or mentally without some EXTRA capacities to modify or "masculinize" her.

See, this is the attitude regarding Horde Prime that has always confused me. From my perspective Horde Prime doesn't take on Etheria himself (often anyway), for the simple reason that he has a GALACTIC SCALE empire and conquest to run.

He's DESIGNATED a warlord to take over Etheria (Hordak), and so it's HORDAK'S problem. Etheria might be a really cool world, but there's probably thousands of others in Horde Prime's grip that are equally important.

Etheria just happens to be guarded by a muscle-bound-alien-female-guardian who makes sure Hordak keeps embarassing himself over and over. The Horde WAS sitting pretty on Etheria before she showed up after all, it's not so much that Hordak (let alone HP) is weak or incompotent, She-Ra is just waaay over powered.

Upper management doesn't ever bother with the trival day-to-day details that mid-management and the worker-bees are there to deal with.

D/L

if he doesn't bother than why does hordak get chewed out? anyway it's true she-ra is just a thorne in Horde Prime's side over all, but the argument is about Granamyr vs Prime rather than She-ra/he-man/skeletor - it just lost focus because someone asked why Granamyr doesn't do something about HP. I guess maybe it is why HP doesn't do something about she-ra?? they have their own buiness to deal with. in the end.

Etheria and She-Ra (arguably Eternia and He-Man as well) are all on Hordak's to-do list. If he can't accomplish his job of conquering these two little planets, he's not performing adequately.

Still doesn't mean that Horde Prime is going to do Hordak's job for him, in all likelyhood, if ever HP decided that Hordak really wasn't up to the task, he'd just appoint a different general to do the job. Let's not forget Inspector Darkney etc. etc. The Horde is a bureaucracy, in the Filmation-verse anyway.

So, to bring this back on topic a little, I don't think Horde Prime would EVER bother taking on Granamyr directly (unless he harnessed the X-mas spirit perhaps.... ), and knowing that old Dragon, I don't think he's ever going to get out of the Darksmoke hot-tub unless somebody serious attacks Darksmoke directly.

But these what-if contests need not have motivation or plausibility.

D/L

"I am convinced that the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones. For the common folks are like the leaves of a tree, and live and die unnoticed."

-The Scarecrow, The Marvelous Land of Oz.

Not only does it apply nicely to Masters, but is probably a deep truth.

Etheria and She-Ra (arguably Eternia and He-Man as well) are all on Hordak's to-do list. If he can't accomplish his job of conquering these two little planets, he's not performing adequately.

Still doesn't mean that Horde Prime is going to do Hordak's job for him, in all likelyhood, if ever HP decided that Hordak really wasn't up to the task, he'd just appoint a different general to do the job. Let's not forget Inspector Darkney etc. etc. The Horde is a bureaucracy, in the Filmation-verse anyway.

So, to bring this back on topic a little, I don't think Horde Prime would EVER bother taking on Granamyr directly (unless he harnessed the X-mas spirit perhaps.... ), and knowing that old Dragon, I don't think he's ever going to get out of the Darksmoke hot-tub unless somebody serious attacks Darksmoke directly.

But these what-if contests need not have motivation or plausibility.

D/L

unfortuneatly i'm not familiar enough with she-ra to remember he inspector. ah well, yeah in the reality of the motuniverse prime and granamyr would probably never meet. but theoretically, I still say granamyr wins by a landslide.

Granamyr doesn't interfere in the trifles of mortals..thats why we need he-man. as for why he doesn't go after horde prime, Granamyr is on eternia, HP never came to Eternia to threaten Dragon civilization...if he did HP would be toast. if HP was all that powerful then why bother relying on hordak to get rid of the rebellion? just do it yourelf after hordak failed for the umpteenth time.

He doesn't go after Horde Prime because Horde Prime has mastered galactic travel and Granamyr hasn't? Now who looks less powerful! That's nonsense, Granamyr does care about mortals, he's just so often disgusted with their choices that he doesn't want much to do with them. That's different from not caring that a big bad monster like HP is crushing them under his heel. He'd help in a battle, and most likely he'd use his wisdom more than his brute strength, which wold probably not be enough against Horde Prime.

Of course the real answer is that Granamyr and HP are old Chess players who meet every Thursday night. Now in that fight, Granamyr wins regularly.

I'm looking at this as Granamyr vs Horde Prime not Granamyr vs The Horde and Horde Prime. Why not Darksmoke vs the Horde then?

Anyway...

My vote goes to Granamyr. Horde Prime might be scary, but we don't know very much about him whereas we've seen Granamyr dispell some pretty tough bad guys with a wave of his hand. The old dragon's power was written specifically to be impressive. Plus, we saw Skeletor appear to hurt Horde Prime in the Christmas special so we know Horde Prime is vulnerable to the Christmas Spirit. It's like his kryptonite I'm telling ya!

Right I haven't even come close to seeing all the She-Ra eps but from the comments made it seems Horde Prime doesn't really use his powers that often or at all so my perception is: he hasn't got any (not in the toon anyway). He is just a big hand (well from what we see) that due to his size invokes fear and he also has the most powerful spaceship in the universe but still, without knowing what he can do I can only say Granamyr would win as we have seen him take on Morning Star, He-Man and that Dragon in The Return of Granamyr. He lays the smackdown every time and so he gets my vote

Chris M

I have been honing my movie knowledge while I have been away and watching a lot. Best Picture winners left to watch: NONE. Films left to watch in Empire's 500 greatest films list: ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN

Here's the thing though, if Granamyr is stronger, why does he let a monster like Horde Prime continue to dominate and harm the universe? More importantly, if he's that powerful why do we even bother with He-Man or She-Ra as our heroes?

Granamyr isn't happy with humans, but he's not a cad who doesn't care about the suffering of non-dragon kind. I think he's annoyed with humans because they cause much of their own suffering (and the suffering of others). Naturally he'd be against Horde Prime, so there'd have to be a bigger reason for why he's not working against such a villain. Possibly he's wise enough to know that HP will destroy himself or that HP's destruction must happen at the hands of the people he oppresses (or else another tyrant will replace him for sure).

Mostly, I think it's like Yoda vs. the Emperor. It can't be a 'no contest' where our favorite hero can easily beat the bad guy. If that happens then there is no story.

As far as the new continuities goes, how about Horde Prime vs Granamyr vs Serpos? Or what about Sortech vs Horde Prime?

Great points. I'm not familiar with Serpos, or Sortech (or, at least, their names aren't ringing a bell for me).

"I'm not just crying for Hordak. I'm crying for the saddest thing I know - a wasted life. To be given that most precious gift - the gift of living, to do with as we choose. I'm crying, because this man has chosen to throw it away, and when he goes, nobody will care..." - She-Ra ( "My Friend, My Enemy")

See, this is the attitude regarding Horde Prime that has always confused me. From my perspective Horde Prime doesn't take on Etheria himself (often anyway), for the simple reason that he has a GALACTIC SCALE empire and conquest to run.

He's DESIGNATED a warlord to take over Etheria (Hordak), and so it's HORDAK'S problem. Etheria might be a really cool world, but there's probably thousands of others in Horde Prime's grip that are equally important.

Etheria just happens to be guarded by a muscle-bound-alien-female-guardian who makes sure Hordak keeps embarassing himself over and over. The Horde WAS sitting pretty on Etheria before she showed up after all, it's not so much that Hordak (let alone HP) is weak or incompotent, She-Ra is just waaay over powered.

Upper management doesn't ever bother with the trival day-to-day details that mid-management and the worker-bees are there to deal with.

D/L

I largely agree with that. Also, Horde Prime comes across as not wanting to intervene directly in the affairs on the planets under his control. This could be due to some sort of actual physical weakness with the character (a lack of mobility, perhaps?), or a simple personality characteristic.

In the Christmas Special, I actually had the impression that Horde Prime was a bit like the Devil himself. An unseen evil, who manipulates warlords like Hordak and Skeletor to do his bidding, but doesn't do outright physical assaults of his own, though he theoretically could. I remember as a kid finding it neat that Horde Prime was so worried about the effect that "Christmas spirit" could have on Eternia, and Etheria.

Also, you could say that Horde Prime is a bit like Emporer Palpatine. Palpatine was happy to led Vader more or less run things... until his planet-destroying ship was destroyed. Likewise, Horde Prime seemed to leave Etheria alone unless they were involved in something truly spectacular (such as getting the Velvet Glove destroyed )

"I'm not just crying for Hordak. I'm crying for the saddest thing I know - a wasted life. To be given that most precious gift - the gift of living, to do with as we choose. I'm crying, because this man has chosen to throw it away, and when he goes, nobody will care..." - She-Ra ( "My Friend, My Enemy")

I'm looking at this as Granamyr vs Horde Prime not Granamyr vs The Horde and Horde Prime. Why not Darksmoke vs the Horde then?

Anyway...

My vote goes to Granamyr. Horde Prime might be scary, but we don't know very much about him whereas we've seen Granamyr dispell some pretty tough bad guys with a wave of his hand. The old dragon's power was written specifically to be impressive. Plus, we saw Skeletor appear to hurt Horde Prime in the Christmas special so we know Horde Prime is vulnerable to the Christmas Spirit. It's like his kryptonite I'm telling ya!

Yeah, Granamyr has better showings overall.

Still, I've always liked the idea of Horde Prime as a being that's on Granamyr's power level, to sort of provide a better balance between good/evil in He-Man's universe (I actually start to feel sorry for poor 'ol Skeletor - if He-Man wasn't enough, now he had an uberpowerful dragon messing up his plans! ).

"I'm not just crying for Hordak. I'm crying for the saddest thing I know - a wasted life. To be given that most precious gift - the gift of living, to do with as we choose. I'm crying, because this man has chosen to throw it away, and when he goes, nobody will care..." - She-Ra ( "My Friend, My Enemy")