(23-11-2015 10:40 AM)jennybee Wrote: I get that God hates what we do and was trying to prove a point in the OT. That makes sense if God was a tyrant. But you can't be a tyrant and then call yourself "just" and "loving." If God loved his creation, he would never do all the evil things he did to the biblical people for disobeying (rape/smiting/stoning/starvation/disease/curses/etc.). Think about how you would feel if it was a person doing those things. What would you think of that person? Think about how you would discipline your child for disobeying? Would you ever even consider doing what God did to them?

God wasn't always filled with wrath in the OT. Sometimes God did shitty things just to see how much people loved him (Abraham and his son/Job).

This is the same God who spent a couple of thousand years plotting the murder of His own Son and called it love! Ya gotta be kidding, right? Dd you catch that wink?

Yes. Because it was a gift to us. It is god's love to us. To give his life as ransom for many. Why cross? Well i mentioned it has anything to do with sacrifice, in old mosaic laws you sacrificed animals to please yahweh the god in heaven, but people didnt want to follow god's commands, so he became wrathful because they followed their own ways instead of his ways. God's gift is this to us, that he didnt send his son to condemn it, but to save us through him. So his son gave his life for us as the ultimate sacrifice so that we may be borned again and saved through him, i call that love. To live a good life in his eyes.

(23-11-2015 07:42 PM)DerFish Wrote: This is the same God who spent a couple of thousand years plotting the murder of His own Son and called it love! Ya gotta be kidding, right? Dd you catch that wink?

Yes. Because it was a gift to us. It is god's love to us. To give his life as ransom for many. Why cross? Well i mentioned it has anything to do with sacrifice, in old mosaic laws you sacrificed animals to please yahweh the god in heaven, but people didnt want to follow god's commands, so he became wrathful because they followed their own ways instead of his ways. God's gift is this to us, that he didnt send his son to condemn it, but to save us through him. Because god loves us so much. so that we may be righteous and be born again through him.

and you think you know this because.....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)

(23-11-2015 07:42 PM)DerFish Wrote: This is the same God who spent a couple of thousand years plotting the murder of His own Son and called it love! Ya gotta be kidding, right? Dd you catch that wink?

Yes. Because it was a gift to us. It is god's love to us. To give his life as ransom for many. Why cross? Well i mentioned it has anything to do with sacrifice, in old mosaic laws you sacrificed animals to please yahweh the god in heaven, but people didnt want to follow god's commands, so he became wrathful because they followed their own ways instead of his ways. God's gift is this to us, that he didnt send his son to condemn it, but to save us through him. So his son gave his life for us as the ultimate sacrifice so that we may be borned again and saved through him, i call that love. To live a good life in his eyes.

But wouldn't agree that it would take a pretty warped God to "Delight in" having animals butchered so the smell could rise to Heaven for Him to delight in it?

(23-11-2015 07:50 PM)Keiya Wrote: Yes. Because it was a gift to us. It is god's love to us. To give his life as ransom for many. Why cross? Well i mentioned it has anything to do with sacrifice, in old mosaic laws you sacrificed animals to please yahweh the god in heaven, but people didnt want to follow god's commands, so he became wrathful because they followed their own ways instead of his ways. God's gift is this to us, that he didnt send his son to condemn it, but to save us through him. So his son gave his life for us as the ultimate sacrifice so that we may be borned again and saved through him, i call that love. To live a good life in his eyes.

But wouldn't agree that it would take a pretty warped God to "Delight in" having animals butchered so the smell could rise to Heaven for Him to delight in it?

If your daddy had decided to have you killed as an act of love would that be neat too?

(23-11-2015 07:50 PM)Keiya Wrote: Yes. Because it was a gift to us. It is god's love to us. To give his life as ransom for many. Why cross? Well i mentioned it has anything to do with sacrifice, in old mosaic laws you sacrificed animals to please yahweh the god in heaven, but people didnt want to follow god's commands, so he became wrathful because they followed their own ways instead of his ways. God's gift is this to us, that he didnt send his son to condemn it, but to save us through him. So his son gave his life for us as the ultimate sacrifice so that we may be borned again and saved through him, i call that love. To live a good life in his eyes.

But wouldn't agree that it would take a pretty warped God to "Delight in" having animals butchered so the smell could rise to Heaven for Him to delight in it?

I don't know - good, grilled meat does have a rather nice aroma. God must be a carnivore.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

(23-11-2015 07:50 PM)Keiya Wrote: Yes. Because it was a gift to us. It is god's love to us. To give his life as ransom for many. Why cross? Well i mentioned it has anything to do with sacrifice, in old mosaic laws you sacrificed animals to please yahweh the god in heaven, but people didnt want to follow god's commands, so he became wrathful because they followed their own ways instead of his ways. God's gift is this to us, that he didnt send his son to condemn it, but to save us through him. So his son gave his life for us as the ultimate sacrifice so that we may be borned again and saved through him, i call that love. To live a good life in his eyes.

But wouldn't agree that it would take a pretty warped God to "Delight in" having animals butchered so the smell could rise to Heaven for Him to delight in it?

Its his methods. If it is so then it is so. Its not to object to it, its simply doing it and obeying it that is the key .
And that was the way of the old covenant god did with the jews.

(23-11-2015 06:54 PM)unfogged Wrote: You are still dodging the question. There IS eternal life for the person who disobeys but it is eternal torture. The "crime" is limited, the punishment is not. Please explain how that can ever be considered moral under any reasonable system.

No wait. You cannot disobey god. Believers are not excused from that. Like if i say i believe but i wont obey, then i am just being hypocritical. If you sin, in this case is best to gain knowledge or to get a better understanding on why its good to follow the path, that way you will avoid sinning. Its where the idea of struggle comes in. To struggle to be good and follow god's word.

Its true that you gain forgiveness by praying. But you shouldn't encourage sin etc. So for a believer rules are important to follow, otherwise its very hypocritical.

Quote: Firstly did you hear Jesus say that? And secondly splicing what Jesus said to what Daniel wrote 1000 years before isn't putting it in contest. look up context in any dictionary.

Its the wordings that makes it good. He says exactly what daniel says here. It is a reason why the high priest gets furious when hears it.

That is not what 'hypocritical' means.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(23-11-2015 07:54 PM)DerFish Wrote: But wouldn't agree that it would take a pretty warped God to "Delight in" having animals butchered so the smell could rise to Heaven for Him to delight in it?

Its his methods. If it is so then it is so. Its not to object to it, its simply doing it and obeying it that is the key .
And that was the way of the old covenant god did with the jews.

I've now read enough of your answers to arrive at the conclusion that you have drunk the Kool Aid and are completely divorced of critical thinking and are perfectly content with it.

Oh well.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce