Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

We argue about this before every summer, so I thought I'd beat Jennifer to the punch and post first.

Have to say, the topic came to mind because I saw far more shorts on Mexicans tonight in the San Miguel Jardin than I did on gringos! Men, women, young, old, thin, fat, many more were in shorts than I have seen in previous years. Even a few middle-aged Mexican mothers wore shortish shorts, not just ones a little above the knee. their kids also in short shorts.

Still not the majority, of course, and more "hot" young women prefer miniskirts so short they barely cover the crotch, wide nude swath of skin revealing belly buttons and midriffs and hip bones, sometimes their blouses almost backless, worn with stiletto sandals. (Whenever Norma and I see a young woman dressed that way we say to each other, "At least she's not wearing shorts.')

But I was surprised to see so many shorts worn tonight, and the hottest months of April and May aren't quite here yet.

Probably many were tourists from Mexico City who are flooding SMA for Holy Week. San Miguel is still considered a more conservative town, at least in dress. We're not a beach town.

Earlier in the evening was one of the most formal processions of the year, women in black with black mantillas covering their heads, wearing white gloves, carrying the heavy floats displaying the Virgin of Sorrows and other figures of Holy Week, the procession lit by lanterns and candles. The Mexican tourist attire was quite a contrast.

The first time Jennifer asked the question I was astounded that anyone would tell me what to wear. Women had fought too long and hard for the right to wear comfortable clothes.

Last year I noted that I wasn't wearing shorts, it felt better to wear loose cotton slacks and what we used to call clam diggers, a few inches above the ankle. I told Jennifer she'd made a convert. Tourists in shorts looked obtrusive. Loose cotton slacks were actually cooler than sweaty skin in shorts.

But also last year it never got much over 90, while our first year it edged over 100 a few days. If it gets over 100 this April and May, I may break down. Norma can whip up a pair of shorts in an hour, and muslin she can dye any color is very cheap. I'm going to be ruled by comfort.

If I were going to church or to a luncheon with middle and upper class Mexican older women I would certainly wear a skirt.

I'd like to know if any of you oldtimers notice that shorts are being worn more often by Mexicans in your areas on the hottest days, too.

Well Carol, you have finally given me the opportunity to comment on short pants before there are a jillion posts about never seeing a Mexican man wearing them. None of my comments here apply to tourist areas, especially the costal tourist areas. They don’t represent typical Mexico much, until you get away from the tourist attractions. While men wearing shorts will always be in the minority, I see many men wearing them on our rare hot days here in Cuernavaca. Most of the times I see them they are in stores shopping, but I have seen well dressed men wearing shorts in dinner houses too. If they know how to dress in shorts, they do not look out of place. They are always well dressed Mexicans wearing a nice shirt, and footgear. I wear them sometimes too, as does my Mexican wife, and her mother. Because of the hot summers up there, I used to wear them in Alaska sometimes too. Yes, like the rest of me, I do have good looking legs. I have never seen another American or Canadian wearing them here in Cuernavaca. After you have been here awhile, you can spot a Yank or a Canadian two blocks away.The secret to appearing well dressed while wearing shorts, is don’t be cheap, buy well tailored shorts. If you buy 5 Dollar shorts, you will look like a man wearing 5 Dollar shorts. Wear a nice shirt. Never go without socks and just wear something like sandals, or huraches on your feet. Wear nice looking socks that match your pants, at least mid-calf length. Wear appropriate shoes. I favor open mesh fabric slip on shoes, or light colored slip on leather shoes. What a man in shorts is wearing on his feet leaves a bigger impression than anything else.We had guests this week from Mexico City. One of my wife’s uncles was wearing shorts every day. He wears them frequently in Mexico City too, he never looks ill dressed. Before anyone posts anything about Cuernavaca even remotely resembling Mexico City, I will say that nothing could be further from the truth. I have lived in both places. The people of Cuernavaca don’t hold the folks from Mexico City in as much disdain as many Mexicans do, they seem to feel more sympathy for them. They know we have less crime, less traffic congestion, lower prices, no pollution, and a far better climate. We all know many people in Mexico City that would love to move here, but their jobs keep them chained to the city. In the time we have lived here, I don’t think it has ever gotten lower than 13º to 14º C (56° to 58° F) in the winter, or higher than 34° C to 35° C (94° F to 96° F) in the summer, most summer days are around 22° C to 24° C (72° F to 75° F). There have been times every winter when my wife is at her mothers house in Mexico when she will call me at night and tell me that it is snowing there. It is usually cool at night here when it is snowing in Mexico. True, it doesn’t snow all over the city, and it melts almost as soon as it hits the ground, but it does snow there almost every winter. It never gets anywhere near freezing in Cuernavaca.The online temperatures for Cuernavaca are always several degrees higher or lower than the actual temperatures are. That’s because the readings are taken at the airport here, I think. Our airport is about 25 miles south of town, and we all know who lives at the airport.Anyway, wearing shorts is a matter of taste, if you don’t have any, don’t wear shorts.Rex "The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Now, now, Ms. Schmidt. How do you know those folks wearing shorts in the Jardín were Mexicans? I´d lay good money that they were just more SMA gringos dressed inappropriately. Did you hear them speak Spanish? Remember that just because a person has a moustache and/or a good tan doesn´t necessarily mean he or she is Mexican. Perhaps you are stereotyping. If so, tsk, tsk. It´s a subtle trap, and many fall into it. I hope you did not.

On another matter you brought up: Women "fought long and hard for the right to wear comfortable clothes"?! Exactly when and where in the past century or so (i.e. in your lifetime) in the Western World have women been ordered to dress uncomfortably? How silly. I´d like some details please. Enlighten us with a single example. Gracias.

Of course, failing to provide a single example will prove that none exist. From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."_______________________________________

The police uniforms have long pants, everyone else wears shorts. Even my dentist treats me while wearing shorts, a flowered shirt, and sandals.

This past week I noticed that some Mexicans visiting here were attending movies, restauraunts, and shopping, in miniscule thongs that would probably get them kicked off of every beach in Florida except for the gay/nude ones.

Re: [palomares] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

Palomares, I don’t know where you were in the last century, but all businesses used to have a dress code for female employees. It always dictated dresses, usually below the knee. I had a female friend that worked for Sears, she was sent home to change clothes as recently as 1970 when her supervisor deemed the one she was wearing was too short. You had to be awake to notice things like that though.As for mistaking a well tanned American for a Mexican, that is possible, but it should be noted that Mexico was not entirely populated by Spaniards marrying Indians. While there are many Morenos where we live, the majority of people in Cuernavaca are fair skinned.My wife is a Moreno, but there are many members of her family that are fair skinned, and some of them have blue eyes, and naturally blond hair. You could drop some of her cousins in Sweden and they would not look out of place. Better be careful if you bet money that someone has mistaken an American for a Mexican. Dressing inappropriately in one part of this large country may be quite the norm in another area."The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Looks like the postings in reply are from the guys so far. Interesting. Yes, I do remember the "dress codes", but be it noted that men had the same requirements, and any man will tell you that the shirt and tie were not comfort clothes either. Question for today's shorts enthusiasts: is it a good idea to expose more skin to the effects of the sun than we have to? For myself, I prefer loose, covering clothing on warm days. Especially when I sit down on a hot bench.

Re: [gringal] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

It's amusing to see ethno-centric expats arguing over appropriate dress in Mexico - especially the question as to whether or not it is considered appropriate to wear shorts in an urban environment. Those of you who follow the Mexican media know that there are societal norms here as elsewhere and some follow while others scoff at those norms without giving any thought as to the norms of the expats among them. A couple of weeks ago, the travel section of Guadalajara's daily newspaper MURAL, had an article entitled "How to Avoid Looking Like a Chilango (their word, not mine) While On vacation". Along with the normal advice such as not flashing money, jewelry or maps, the article advised Mexico City residents not to wear shorts and black knee socks on the beach. It seems that, in Acapulco and elsewhere capitalenos congregate to play, there is much derision directed at them for inappropriate dress.

I have no doubt that many arrogant capitalenos in such weekend and vacation haunts as Queretaro and San Miguel lack respect for local dress codes required of permanent residents who wish to remain in town while retaining a modicum of personal self-respect. Therefore, it would not surprise me that San Miguel is overrun with dressed-down Mexican tourists from the capital who would never dream of dressing that way at home.

Re: [Bubba] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

"...shorts and black knee socks on the beach." Yow! Did you check for pocket protectors?

When I was a kid and we visited family in DF, we females didn't leave the house unless we wore dresses, sweaters or light jackets, shiny shoes, and purses with a scarf tucked inside in case Tia Lolita wanted to stop at a church to pray. Of course, when I was a kid we also wore white gloves to go shopping on Market Street in San Francisco. And in the mid-70s, when I wore that first pantsuit to work, the other women on the floor called all day long to find out whether I'd been sent home to change.

That thought has been driving me crazy for the past two months, ever since my doctor told me I have to wear support hose for the rest of my life. I always wear shorts (actually knee-length cutoffs) in the summer. I don't usually have hang-ups about how I dress, but knee-length cutoffs with knee-high black support hose is a bit much even for me. I may just stay home all summer -- or to hell with the hose in the summer.

The annual answer: No. Except at the beach, for sports activities, and working in the yard. At least in my part of the country. Of course, tourists of all nationalities tend to wear certain tribal gear outside of their home territority. And there are natives, mostly men, who wear shorts as a matter of style, not unlike those who wear bowties.

While the dress codes of today might not get a student kicked out of school for wearing a too-short dress, dress codes still exist on a more subtle plane. Anyone who wears a chador or the payess in these parts would look at much out of place as Rolly in a hula skirt.

Cultural norms would dictate shorts only appropriate of the beach and your back yard. However as has been observed the rules are changing. Some of the credit must go to music videos which go past observed cultural norms and change them. At least for the young who revel in their newness.

Re: [RexC] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

Of course, businesses have dress codes for women. They have them for men, too.

None of which is remotely related to what I said about what Ms. Schmidt wrote. A dress code requires a certain style of dress. It doesn´t mandate discomfort.

Ms. Schmidt said that "women have fought long and hard for the right to wear comfortable clothes."

I challenged Ms. Schmidt to come up with even one example of women being forced to dress uncomfortably. We´ve seen no response, and we won´t. No example exists.

My point with Ms. Schmidt´s silliness is this: Militant feminists of a certain generation tend to use phrases like "we have fought long and hard" and then attach them to whatever comes floating through the mind, in this case "the right to dress comfortably."

That right has always existed. Even those poor Arab women, who are directed as to their attire, get to throw a nice, loose (comfy) sheet over themselves.

There are, of course, many women who dress uncomfortably. High heels, tight skirts, etc. But nobody is ordering them to do that. They are doing it on their own to attract men´s attention. And it works. Always has. Always will.

And it always will get militant feminists´ drawers in a twist, a good thing.

Your wife is morena? Great! Mine too. We share good taste.

PS. Isn't it fantastic that we have this forum to fuss at each other? I think so. From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."_______________________________________

Re: [Bubba] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

I think whether or not to wear shorts is just about the greatest non-issue I ever heard of. If you like them and it is hot, wear them, if not, don’t. Simple?I think the Mural reporter was using a big dose of poetic license. Black knee socks on the beach? Get real. We were in Acapulco in January, it was 84° F. It’s hard for me to imagine someone wearing knee socks in that heat, and I never have seen anyone wearing any kind of knee socks there. Virtually all the tourists there, mostly Americans I think, dress weird anyway. I don’t check what anyone is wearing, but I don’t believe I have ever seen an adult in Mexico wearing knee socks, maybe some school kids.I have come to the conclusion that tourists everywhere dress weird. You should see what they wear when they visit Alaska. Safari jackets with zip off sleeves, cargo pants with zip off legs, boots suitable to climb Mount Everest. All this while staying in a fine Hotel in the center of a modern American city or town. It seems that many people in Mexico make a habit of criticizing everyone, especially anyone from Mexico City. My wife’s Mexican girl friends in Anchorage used to always tell her she dressed too high class ??? Maybe they wanted her to wear gravy spots on her blouses ???I do wear my Sam’s Club 5 Dollar specials around the house in the summer. The dogs don’t seem to mind. It does get a little lonely eating in the kitchen by myself when I’m wearing them though."The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Re: [palomares] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

Well, here's an example for you. Stockings or pantyhose. They are horribly uncomfortable in a hot climate and they have been required of women in my lifetime. When I was in high school, girls were not allowed to wear sleeveless blouses or skirts above the knee and bare legs were not allowed. This was in a southern California beach town and it was pretty darn hot and uncomfortable.

If you think being forced to wear a chadra is comfortable in 100* heat, then try throwing a floor length black sheet over your head and wearing it in Sonora in the summer. Along with it, you can enjoy the inability to see except through a small window.

You may like to think that women dress for men but in fact, they usually dress more for other women. Men rarely notice if they have on the very latest style or if they have worn that dress before of if those heels don't quite match. It's a competitive sport, mainly enjoyed by young women but sometimes carried over into other ages.

Whether you give a sh*t or not what the prevaling customs are in appropriate clothing is a personal decision and has more to do with maintaining status and social approval than respecting other cultures - at least in Mexico. Of course, in some countries it has to do with not getting stoned, beaten and raped.

As to mexicanas supposedly more conservative attire, I think that is fast disappearing. I see more skin and skin tight clothes on mexicanas in Mexico than I do on young anglos in LA. I also see shorts in Mexico on both young and old, men and women, and in inland cities as well as beach towns. Since I can hear an accent and they are speaking spanish, I'm pretty sure they are mexican.

Re: [palomares] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

Balderdash. Unless you have had to dress as a woman, you have no basis on which to promote those rather emphatic statements.

Corsets. Stiffly underwired brassieres. Girdles, for the love of Pete. Three- or four-inch stiletto heels with nasty pointy toes. As stated above, pantyhose. For all the years that women and girls were required to wear dresses or skirts outside of the house in cold weather -- well, ever get a blast of frigid winter air up your pant legs? Multiply that by about 30. When I was coming up, girls were required to wear dresses or skirts in school, regardless of the weather or physical activities -- ever tried to do the 50-yard dash in a dress and Mary Janes? Are you old enough to remember when "cabin attendants" were called stewardesses? Many were required (yes, required) to wear girdles so that their stomachs wouldn't pooch out at altitude. The ridiculous garb that cocktail waitresses are required to wear to keep their jobs. You think what you see at Hooters is comfortable? It's comparable to wearing a jock-strap for 18 hours a day.

Go dress as a woman for a while. Strut your stuff in professional or social situations. Then come back here and talk about requirements for uncomfortable clothes.

Ah, yet more misunderstanding. Like the RexC, youÂ´re missing the point entirely. I was merely responding to the silliness put forth by Ms. Schmidt there in San Miguel.

And what she said was that women had been forced (forced! mind you) to dress uncomfortably, implying those days were in the past. WomenÂ´s Rights struggles and all that.

IÂ´ve never worn one, but I imagine corsets are dreadful. But, nobody ever forced a woman to wear it. Nor high heels either. Women do that to themselves. Still do.

IÂ´ll grant that skirts on a wintry Wisconsin night might be less than a joyful experience, but IÂ´ve never seen a rule requiring that it be done. Social convention, of course, and IÂ´ll bet that an intelligent woman could have thought up a good way to warm herself under that skirt with something or other if sheÂ´d given it a momentÂ´s clear thought.

OK, youÂ´re right. Some schools have dress codes. Sometimes, theyÂ´re dumb. But, weÂ´re talking about kids here. They have to suffer all manner of indignities, boys and girls. If girls were doing 50-yard dashes in a Mary Janes, why, that was silly. But not because of the clothing. Why does a girl need to do a 50-yard dash in the first place?

I grew up in Florida. We young lads had to wear long pants to school in 95-plus weather! And we could not wear sleeveless shirts either! Boy, I recall my suffering. Youngsters of both genders suffer at the hands of their elders, as it should be.

And, sure, I remember when stewardesses still were stewardesses. And if their tummies were pooching out, well, maybe a little more exercise and a better diet would have been a wise decision for them. Then they wouldnÂ´t have had to wear the girdles. So, who was at fault ultimately on that? The women themselves.

And the ridiculous attire women were required to wear to keep their jobs as cocktail waitresses? If they found that an imposition, other jobs were available. Anyway, ridiculous attire is not necessarily uncomfortable attire, which is our issue here.

And, indeed, I do think what Hooters waitresses wear is comfortable. I know theyÂ´ve always got those big smiles on their faces. TheyÂ´re almost naked! I always find that comfy and nice. I wish we had a Hooters where I live here in PÃ¡tzcuaro, MichoacÃ¡n. Maybe itÂ´ll follow the WalMart weÂ´re praying for. WeÂ´ll have to get a petition going.

And men face dress requirements with their jobs too. And what do you know about wearing a jockstrap for 18 hours a day? You mentioned that. Have you told your husband? IÂ´ll leave aside the point that jocks are only worn during games. Nobody wears one for 18 hours. Actually, theyÂ´re quite comfy. Not much to them really. Like a Hooters getup.

Back to pantyhouse. I canÂ´t imagine itÂ´s comfortable. I also doubt its often a written rule. Women just do it (to themselves). I do know itÂ´s one of the ways intelligent women stay warmer in cold weather when theyÂ´ve got a skirt on. Bravo to them.

And, I say yet again: Ms. Schmidt there in San Miguel wonÂ´t be able to back up her remark with clear examples.

But, IÂ´ve enjoyed our chat, Marta. What are you doing up in California anyway? Better down south. Enjoy the day. From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."_______________________________________

Re: [sfmacaws] Annual thread: Appropriate to wear shorts in Mexico?

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Hi, Ms. Sfmacaws,

Odd name.

I think I addressed some of your concerns in my response above (or below) to Marta in California. Chisnmarta, it is.

Actually, I do believe you are mistaken about the chadra. Why do you think those Arabs and Lawrence of Arabia wear those flowing robes in the sweltering desert? From everything IÂ´ve ever read, itÂ´s because itÂ´s the best way to stay cool. Yep, sounds odd, but apparently it absorbs your sweat or something like that.

And, of course, stylewise, women are dressing often for other women, not men. But when theyÂ´re tottering about on high heels and have their tushes wrapped tightly with Spandex material, well, I hate to tell you this, but theyÂ´re doing that for guys. Works too.

Enjoy the day. From Tzurumutaro, Michoacan, "The Village of the Darned."_______________________________________

I would direct you to the Living, Working, Retiring forum, to the thread titled "Do I Need A Car to Live in Mexico?". The photo attached to the first post in that thread will give an answer to the shorts question--not the answer, but an answer.