...18Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons

Again, just trying to look at these verses with a bit of a different eye but try this on...

What is idolotry? Placing anything or anyone above God. What were the idols they were speaking of? Images created by the human mind, statues carved by human hands....vain human imaginings. No one can drink of the Lord's cup and also be led by or in love with vain human imaginings.

Deuteronomy 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do

So all these people are playing with their own minds?

good find and good point. I agree. The mind can be deceitful for sure. Of course it's part of the equation, as documented in the scriptures. But it's a roaring lion, seeking whom it may devour? nah...

I actually believe that is a terrific description of the mind that is enslaved to sin. Self seeking, loud, abusive, hateful, slanderous, libelous, lying etc are all descriptions of the mind which is enslaved to sin. That kind of mind can't love anyone, and hurts anything and anyone in their path.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think this is what the verse is primarily describing, or that there is no external adversary as some maintain. One thing in the scrip I forgot to mention is, "roaming around"...

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

I believe it's often influenced by external factors...as Molly said earlier, that's why we're to put on armor.

Roaming around sounds like a predator.

Seeking whom it may devour--again a predator.

Whatever this is describing, it is taking the active role of the predator.

Deuteronomy 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do

So all these people are playing with their own minds?

good find and good point. I agree. The mind can be deceitful for sure. Of course it's part of the equation, as documented in the scriptures. But it's a roaring lion, seeking whom it may devour? nah...

I actually believe that is a terrific description of the mind that is enslaved to sin. Self seeking, loud, abusive, hateful, slanderous, libelous, lying etc are all descriptions of the mind which is enslaved to sin. That kind of mind can't love anyone, and hurts anything and anyone in their path.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think this is what the verse is primarily describing, or that there is no external adversary as some maintain. One thing in the scrip I forgot to mention is, "roaming around"...

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

I hear ya Jab, and as I said I'm undecided on this subject. But, I often think we over-literalize the imagery of the Bible. I think roaming around could be looking for opportunity to harm, control, manipulate, corrupt etc. And I see this daily. "Stronger" minds preying on the weaker minds in order to obtain possessions, affirmation, opportunity or just someone to sign off on all their bull. I see this not just as an internal issue...I see it as an external force that enslaves, and abuses mankind. When you lock your doors at night, you do so in order to keep that force from coming into your home and harming your family. Some don't have the television in their home in order to do the same thing. It's tangible and intangible...it's visible and invisible...it's is truly a principality at work.

Deuteronomy 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do

So all these people are playing with their own minds?

good find and good point. I agree. The mind can be deceitful for sure. Of course it's part of the equation, as documented in the scriptures. But it's a roaring lion, seeking whom it may devour? nah...

I actually believe that is a terrific description of the mind that is enslaved to sin. Self seeking, loud, abusive, hateful, slanderous, libelous, lying etc are all descriptions of the mind which is enslaved to sin. That kind of mind can't love anyone, and hurts anything and anyone in their path.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think this is what the verse is primarily describing, or that there is no external adversary as some maintain. One thing in the scrip I forgot to mention is, "roaming around"...

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

I believe it's often influenced by external factors...as Molly said earlier, that's why we're to put on armor.

Roaming around sounds like a predator.

Seeking whom it may devour--again a predator.

Whatever this is describing, it is taking the active role of the predator.

Are we being attacked by our own minds? Wouldn't that make us insane?

Or are we being attacked through our minds?

What would you consider most of the garbage on television, in movies, on the radio?

Deuteronomy 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do

So all these people are playing with their own minds?

good find and good point. I agree. The mind can be deceitful for sure. Of course it's part of the equation, as documented in the scriptures. But it's a roaring lion, seeking whom it may devour? nah...

I actually believe that is a terrific description of the mind that is enslaved to sin. Self seeking, loud, abusive, hateful, slanderous, libelous, lying etc are all descriptions of the mind which is enslaved to sin. That kind of mind can't love anyone, and hurts anything and anyone in their path.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think this is what the verse is primarily describing, or that there is no external adversary as some maintain. One thing in the scrip I forgot to mention is, "roaming around"...

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

I hear ya Jab, and as I said I'm undecided on this subject. But, I often think we over-literalize the imagery of the Bible. I think roaming around could be looking for opportunity to harm, control, manipulate, corrupt etc. And I see this daily. "Stronger" minds preying on the weaker minds in order to obtain possessions, affirmation, opportunity or just someone to sign off on all their bull. I see this not just as an internal issue...I see it as an external force that enslaves, and abuses mankind. When you lock your doors at night, you do so in order to keep that force from coming into your home and harming your family. Some don't have the television in their home in order to do the same thing. It's tangible and intangible...it's visible and invisible...it's is truly a principality at work.

I believe it's both; the carnal/fleshly part of our mind [the part that's not the mind of Christ] - the "natural man", and outside influences of the adversary.

A robber with a gun doesn't just represent evil. He can really shoot you.

I certainly agree with that last part. We know some people controlled by the carnal mind abandoned to depravity and/or subject to addiction won't hestitate to come into your home and steal, kill and destroy. And looking at this from both sides I don't feel that Scripture is 100% clear one way or the other on the subject. I believe you can make a case for both...or merely the accumulative effect/force of the carnal mind in society.

Is your mind natural? Or spiritual? Maybe if we start there this would be easier to digest. Paul says my mind is at enmity against God . . .but he adds a little more to it that just that.

Romans 8 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Where does temptation begin? Does it not first start "in your mind"? It does not have the capacity to comprehend spiritual truth on it's own strength. Everything is based on alignment . . .flesh over spirit leads to death . .. spirit over flesh leads to life both here and here after.

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

of course your entitled to disagree James ~The Roar- Ing means the VOICE,

Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.

Job 4:10 The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.

Job 4:11 The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad

Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion.

Likened to very whispered Voice of the Serpen , the seed which EVE birthed~ , the very Serpent who was Cursed to CRAWL upon His Belly[ mind] in the Dust, for he shall consume DUST all days of HIS LIFE~ to fed By carnal Reasoning~as is the Apple[ KNOWLEDGE] from the TREE~## we do Not feed from that TREE# we feed from HIS Tree~ # so Be aware and Vigilent to whos VOICE you HEAR~

The sheild of Faith is the PROTECTION from Spears[ arrows] #but here we go again More metaphors~~ You may find Arrows Speard are words~ His sheild protects us from serpents Lies~

Our Lord Killed By the SPEAR [ LIES]

Stan the man is about as Real come entity as the Tooth fairy IMO~

Shalom~

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 12:35:32 AM by Taffy »

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

of course your entitled to disagree James ~The Roar- Ing means the VOICE,

Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.

Job 4:10 The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.

Job 4:11 The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad

Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion.

Likened to very whispered Voice of the Serpen , the seed which EVE birthed~ , the very Serpent who was Cursed to CRAWL upon His Belly[ mind] in the Dust, for he shall consume DUST all days of HIS LIFE~ to fed By carnal Reasoning~as is the Apple[ KNOWLEDGE] from the TREE~## we do Not feed from that TREE# we feed from HIS Tree~ # so Be aware and Vigilent to whos VOICE you HEAR~

The sheild of Faith is the PROTECTION from Spears[ arrows] #but here we go again More metaphors~~ You may find Arrows Speard are words~ His sheild protects us from serpents Lies~

Our Lord Killed By the SPEAR [ LIES]

Stan the man is about as Real come entity as the Tooth fairy IMO~

Shalom~

Yes, I do disagree. I don't believe the adversary is just the mind. The mind plays a huge role, but that ain't all there is to it, IMO. I don't believe it was Job's mind (or anyone else's) which approached God to visit calamity on Job. I don't believe that at all.

I also don't believe satan is a man. I believe it is an entity created by God to use as His tool to accomplish His purposes.

Again, I agree the mind is part of the equation, but IMO, just a part..

of course your entitled to disagree James ~The Roar- Ing means the VOICE,

Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.

Job 4:10 The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.

Job 4:11 The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad

Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion.

Likened to very whispered Voice of the Serpen , the seed which EVE birthed~ , the very Serpent who was Cursed to CRAWL upon His Belly[ mind] in the Dust, for he shall consume DUST all days of HIS LIFE~ to fed By carnal Reasoning~as is the Apple[ KNOWLEDGE] from the TREE~## we do Not feed from that TREE# we feed from HIS Tree~ # so Be aware and Vigilent to whos VOICE you HEAR~

The sheild of Faith is the PROTECTION from Spears[ arrows] #but here we go again More metaphors~~ You may find Arrows Speard are words~ His sheild protects us from serpents Lies~

Our Lord Killed By the SPEAR [ LIES]

Stan the man is about as Real come entity as the Tooth fairy IMO~

Shalom~

Yes, I do disagree. I don't believe the adversary is just the mind. The mind plays a huge role, but that ain't all there is to it, IMO. I don't believe it was Job's mind (or anyone else's) which approached God to visit calamity on Job. I don't believe that at all.

I also don't believe satan is a man.

Now, the tooth fairy? hmmm...left some money under my pillow once.

so the ROAMING lLION is a Literal LION who goes about EATING PEOPLE~~~ do you not cross check how scrpture WORKS? or do you take Just One verse Come MANS hear says and picture this entity who Now is a LION not a Dragon , or serpent or Satan or the devil or even Pharoah AS LITERAL?]] now wonder folk believe in Dantes Hell~

OH AND it was Probably ya Mum who was the Fairy you believed~

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 02:23:06 AM by Taffy »

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

I believe it's both; the carnal/fleshly part of our mind [the part that's not the mind of Christ] - the "natural man", and outside influences of the adversary.

A robber with a gun doesn't just represent evil. He can really shoot you.

I certainly agree with that last part. We know some people controlled by the carnal mind abandoned to depravity and/or subject to addiction won't hestitate to come into your home and steal, kill and destroy. And looking at this from both sides I don't feel that Scripture is 100% clear one way or the other on the subject. I believe you can make a case for both...or merely the accumulative effect/force of the carnal mind in society.

I could almost go there at times too Shawn re: "making a case for both". But IMO, there are places in scripture where "the mind" as the adversary just doesn't work. It may sound like a nice symbolic assertion, but again, scriptures as satan approaching God to test Job, and that being someone's "mind" just doesn't ring true to me. I believe it's both..we're influenced from without, and the "workings" of it are within.

I believe it's both; the carnal/fleshly part of our mind [the part that's not the mind of Christ] - the "natural man", and outside influences of the adversary.

A robber with a gun doesn't just represent evil. He can really shoot you.

I certainly agree with that last part. We know some people controlled by the carnal mind abandoned to depravity and/or subject to addiction won't hestitate to come into your home and steal, kill and destroy. And looking at this from both sides I don't feel that Scripture is 100% clear one way or the other on the subject. I believe you can make a case for both...or merely the accumulative effect/force of the carnal mind in society.

I could almost go there at times too Shawn re: "making a case for both". But IMO, there are places in scripture where "the mind" as the adversary just doesn't work. It may sound like a nice symbolic assertion, but again, scriptures as satan approaching God to test Job, and that being someone's "mind" just doesn't ring true to me. I believe it's both..we're influenced from without, and the "workings" of it are within.

please dont kep us In suspense James~

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

so the ROAMING lLION is a Literal LION who goes about EATING PEOPLE~~~ do you not cross check how scrpture WORKS? or do you take Just One verse Come MANS hear says and picture this entity who Now is a LION not a Dragon , or serpent or Satan or the devil or even Pharoah AS LITERAL?]] now wonder folk believe in Dantes Hell~

OH AND it was Probably ya Mum who was the Fairy you believed~

Back up a second. Is this how this works? When someone makes a case, either direction, do we just hear what we want to hear?

Do you honestly believe I believe the roaring lion is a real lion? Also, the rest of what you've written here Taffy is nowhere close to what I either said or believe. Please don't jump to such extreme conclusions and maybe we can communicate.

I believe it's both; the carnal/fleshly part of our mind [the part that's not the mind of Christ] - the "natural man", and outside influences of the adversary.

A robber with a gun doesn't just represent evil. He can really shoot you.

I certainly agree with that last part. We know some people controlled by the carnal mind abandoned to depravity and/or subject to addiction won't hestitate to come into your home and steal, kill and destroy. And looking at this from both sides I don't feel that Scripture is 100% clear one way or the other on the subject. I believe you can make a case for both...or merely the accumulative effect/force of the carnal mind in society.

I could almost go there at times too Shawn re: "making a case for both". But IMO, there are places in scripture where "the mind" as the adversary just doesn't work. It may sound like a nice symbolic assertion, but again, scriptures as satan approaching God to test Job, and that being someone's "mind" just doesn't ring true to me. I believe it's both..we're influenced from without, and the "workings" of it are within.

1Sa 17:37 David said moreover, The LORD that delivered me out of the paw of the lion, and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said unto David, Go, and the LORD be with thee.

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Psa 7:1 A psalm of David, which he sang to the LORD concerning Cush of the tribe of Benjamin. I come to you for protection, O LORD my God. Save me from my persecutorsórescue me! Psa 7:2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending [it] in pieces, while [there is] none to deliver ~ They\he ?~~whos THEY ?these are MEN James~

« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 02:07:02 AM by Taffy »

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Beware of the seed[ word\mouth\voice]~ like a Roaring LION , who comes to deceive you}Do Not let your MIND be fed with LIES~cometh the WORDS of Men in their carnal state~be the simples James, come the Voice of the Lion of men~

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.