There is very little funny about "christian scientists" - they are simply flat-out snake-oil hacks. They don't care about facts - only maintaining an illusion of authority among their followers. Its another example of the one-eyed man being king in the land of the blind. The followers are by and large ignorant and will never question what is being shoveled at them.

Scientists can play the devil's advocate and take the position of YEC for argument's sake at which point it quickly becomes apparent there is not a shred of physical evidence/proof for the existence of a Abrahamic god/Jesus/Holy Ghost.

"True" christians on the other hand will almost never allow themselves to even consider that god might not be real or the bible untrue and/or that evolution is real. They surround themselves in a protective bubble and support the voices that echo the bible and reinforce their faith-based knowledge of "what is true".

So we get "institutions" like Discovery Institute whose sole purpose is to bilk religious folk out of their hard-earned dollars and maintain the continual goal-post moving necessary to evolve christianity alongside modern science and its advancements.

Professional creationists are, without exception, liars. They are aware that the things they are saying are false.

The majority of creationists are simply not knowledgeable about the topic, and repeat what they have been told because they have never sought out the relevant information.

If you are a creationist, you are either uninformed (most) or dishonest (the few professional creationists), but either way, you are mistaken. Evolution happens, evolution has happened, and evolution will continue to happen. Natural selection is one of the most significant causes of evolution, and it results in adaptation to local environments. Darwin was absolutely correct about that.

None of this has any bearing on the existence, actions, or intent of any supernatural deities. If God exists and was involved in some way in the existence of humans, He used evolution to do it. I don't know if God exists, that's up to you to decide for yourself. But evolution definitely does exist. Offspring are not all "clones" of their parents; each generation is slightly different from the one before it, and those slight differences are cumulative.

There are several people on Fark who are experts in one or another aspects of evolution (the observed process) and/or evolutionary theory (the explanation for the observed process), so if you're not certain what it's all about, please ask questions.

FloydA:Professional creationists are, without exception, liars. They are aware that the things they are saying are false.

The majority of creationists are simply not knowledgeable about the topic, and repeat what they have been told because they have never sought out the relevant information.

If you are a creationist, you are either uninformed (most) or dishonest (the few professional creationists), but either way, you are mistaken. Evolution happens, evolution has happened, and evolution will continue to happen. Natural selection is one of the most significant causes of evolution, and it results in adaptation to local environments. Darwin was absolutely correct about that.

None of this has any bearing on the existence, actions, or intent of any supernatural deities. If God exists and was involved in some way in the existence of humans, He used evolution to do it. I don't know if God exists, that's up to you to decide for yourself. But evolution definitely does exist. Offspring are not all "clones" of their parents; each generation is slightly different from the one before it, and those slight differences are cumulative.

There are several people on Fark who are experts in one or another aspects of evolution (the observed process) and/or evolutionary theory (the explanation for the observed process), so if you're not certain what it's all about, please ask questions.

Not only that, science has actually, compeltely, *reproduced evolution of a new trait* in a laboratory (which is SERIOUSLY WICKED COOL). That is, a trait that did not even *exist* in the bacteria prior to the experiment (E-coli capable of surviving on citric acid, if I remember right).

error 303:I know a guy with a Master's of Science degree in biology from the University of Alabama who's a straight up young Earth creationist. It's really weird.

Think I found your problem.

CSB:My first non-TA teaching gig was at a university college (halfway between a college and a full university). The very first person to graduate with a B.Sc. from that institution turned out to be a creationist, and he came back to his alma mater with a whole display. They room they gave him was as far from the Science department as possible.

I got my picture in the paper arguing with him. His responses didn't make a whole lot of sense. However, I got the sense that he was probably a nice guy underneath all the willful ignorance (he was Canadian, after all).

The one thing I took offense to was the poster on the wall describing non-believers as "wicked". Well fark you too, buddy.

Elzar:There is very little funny about "christian scientists" - they are simply flat-out snake-oil hacks. They don't care about facts - only maintaining an illusion of authority among their followers. Its another example of the one-eyed man being king in the land of the blind. The followers are by and large ignorant and will never question what is being shoveled at them.

Don't toss all scientists who are Christians (or other religions) in the same pot. I know plenty who are both good scientists, good people, and not hacks and snake-oil sales-people.

FloydA:Professional creationists are, without exception, liars. They are aware that the things they are saying are false.

The majority of creationists are simply not knowledgeable about the topic, and repeat what they have been told because they have never sought out the relevant information.

If you are a creationist, you are either uninformed (most) or dishonest (the few professional creationists), but either way, you are mistaken. Evolution happens, evolution has happened, and evolution will continue to happen. Natural selection is one of the most significant causes of evolution, and it results in adaptation to local environments. Darwin was absolutely correct about that.

None of this has any bearing on the existence, actions, or intent of any supernatural deities. If God exists and was involved in some way in the existence of humans, He used evolution to do it. I don't know if God exists, that's up to you to decide for yourself. But evolution definitely does exist. Offspring are not all "clones" of their parents; each generation is slightly different from the one before it, and those slight differences are cumulative.

There are several people on Fark who are experts in one or another aspects of evolution (the observed process) and/or evolutionary theory (the explanation for the observed process), so if you're not certain what it's all about, please ask questions.

Pretty much this. Also, not all of the best scientists in particular fields are very eloquent, which is a disadvantage. Many of the professional conmen involved in ID, YEC, etc are pretty good at speaking to their target audience. Although we can claim the excuse that it is farking hard to explain science sometimes. If you simplify too much people still reject it because it seems too simple, and they have enough "yeah but what about x?" type questions. Trying to explain the breadth and depth of evolutionary biology takes semesters of course-time...

error 303:I know a guy with a Master's of Science degree in biology from the Univesity of Alabama who's a straight up young Earth creationist. It's really weird.

I know a few as well. It is less weird when you realize you can do entire biology degrees (particularly molecular biology or biochemistry) with only superficial education in evolutionary biology. In a typical intro biology course it is glossed over in one unit, and you might not have to take any sort of specific course in it. If you do molecular work you can then never think about it again and go on experimenting on your particular protein or pathway of interest.

If what you say is true, then why don't we have monkey butlers, hmmmm?

///I don't want to argue with creationists, I just want a monkey butler.

[i105.photobucket.com image 640x478]

Science: 1Creationism: 0

That one looks like it is taxidermied. Please send me a live one at once.

entropic_existence:Elzar: ***snip***Don't toss all scientists who are Christians (or other religions) in the same pot. I know plenty who are both good scientists, good people, and not hacks and snake-oil sales-people.

***snip***

Not to speak for anyone else, but there is a difference between scientists who are Christian and "christian scientists" and would guess the original comment was referring to the second kind.

ManOfTeal:We are supposed to get a new flu vaccine every single year because the flu virus mutates and is different every year. How is this not proof enough that evolution is real?

Because people believe Jenny McCarthy over scientific evidence? Of course before she started spouting off about fake science, I didn't even realize that she could talk, so I may be biased.

TabASlotB:The saddest thing: the creationist nitwit shows up in the comments and digs in his heels.

Owch. The guy is conflating "skepticism about the efficacy of natural selection" with the well-known and not even remotely controversial idea that natural selection isn't the only process involved in evolution. The bits that he quoted in order to defend himself seem to refer to stochastic processes like drift, and sources of variation like mutation. It's a far cry from those to "skepticism about the efficacy of natural selection".

If the contention in TFA is that this guy is guilty of distorting information, he's proving it himself there.

Could evolution be a part of the Creationist plan? Lets say you created something that you wanted to last a really long time. Wouldn't it make sense to allow your creation to adapt in the changing environment that you also created?

Prison Bryan:Could evolution be a part of the Creationist plan? Lets say you created something that you wanted to last a really long time. Wouldn't it make sense to allow your creation to adapt in the changing environment that you also created?

Prison Bryan:Could evolution be a part of the Creationist plan? Lets say you created something that you wanted to last a really long time. Wouldn't it make sense to allow your creation to adapt in the changing environment that you also created?

Just a thought.

And provide no proof or evidence of your great plan? Why not include this information in your "Bible" and let everyone know from the start? Doesn't sound like divine planning to me, sounds more like human planning. Like one group trying to control another group

Prison Bryan:Could evolution be a part of the Creationist plan? Lets say you created something that you wanted to last a really long time. Wouldn't it make sense to allow your creation to adapt in the changing environment that you also created?

Just a thought.

If you've made up your mind to believe in a God (god, gods, etc), then making that sort of leap isn't unheard of. You're hardly the first to suggest such a thing. I will point out though that this is very much a "god of the gaps" type of reasoning. That is to say that God is the part of science and nature that we don't understand.

Currently, that's quite a lot but the reality is that we understand more and more every day and there's no reason to think this won't continue. As our understanding increases, the space that God occupies shrinks. Eventually, as time goes no, God is relegated to smaller and smaller portions of our ignorance until one day he's just... gone.

Felgraf:Not only that, science has actually, compeltely, *reproduced evolution of a new trait* in a laboratory (which is SERIOUSLY WICKED COOL). That is, a trait that did not even *exist* in the bacteria prior to the experiment (E-coli capable of surviving on citric acid, if I remember right).

Correct. Also, the protocols of the experiment allowed the researchers to determine that it took two mutations that occurred over 10,000 generations apart for this to occur.

Until a creationist has a reasonable rebuttal to this, I don't care what they have to say on the issue. Too many simply don't understand what it is they're saying, and don't understand the basics of what they're arguing against.

FloydA:Professional creationists are, without exception, liars. They are aware that the things they are saying are false.

The majority of creationists are simply not knowledgeable about the topic, and repeat what they have been told because they have never sought out the relevant information.

If you are a creationist, you are either uninformed (most) or dishonest (the few professional creationists), but either way, you are mistaken.

for starters

though, from one creationist to another, i was rather amused that you were so quick to agree with him, whether or not you are throwing jabs at him or just patting him on the back, it all sticks the same...