Disc inferno

For you, the cher public and your discerning ears, La Cieca offers the following voice identification quiz. The music is “Brünnhilde’s Immolation Scene” and it is up to you (and I do mean you) to identify the 25 singers involved.

The usual rules apply: you post your guesses in the comments section and the first commenter to identify all 25 artists correctly wins. La Cieca asks that if you attempt more than once, you include in each comment a complete list of singers; i.e., don’t go saying, “I want to change #17 to Veronica Villaroel.” In the unlikely case that no parterrian gets all 25 singers, the entry with the most correct answers at the end of the contest (Saturday, May 11, 2013 at 11:00 am) will be awarded the prize.

And what is that prize, you ask? Why, nothing less than your own copy of Wagner at the Met: Legendary Performances. In case the winner hails from a place unserved by amazon.com, La Cieca reserves the right to substitute another prize of equivalent value.

Ready, cher public? Start listening!

Again La Cieca extends her thanks to her dear friend Donald Collup for his tireless efforts in preparing this audio quiz.

That’s my take on things anyway! I’d also like to remind everybody that I confused Julia Varady with Ingeborg Hallstein on one of these, so to say that I frequently don’t know what the hell I’m talking about would be putting it mildly… ;-)

Hope all are well! And THANKS to La Cieca and La Donald (Collup, of course) for these wonderful quizzes!!

marshiemarkII

Stevey caro, we knew you’d come through. To my everlating shame CammiB I couldn’t have gotten even half of these girls, since I was not even familiar with the existence of some (Bumbry as Brunnhilde????). I have questions for you caro stevey. Is no3 really Eaglen, there does seem to be a consensus about her but I find the voice too dunkel for Eaglen, admittedly heard her only once in the Immolation at the Levine Gala in 96(?). Lubin is obvious because of the French, and how odd it sounds, my most favoritest moment in the entire Immolation erschaut eure ewige Schuld! Meine Klage hör’, du hehrster Gott! Sung en Francais! very odd. Varnay has an odd line too, she is so impressive in the opening lines, so martial!!!! here just passes. Moedl is so absurd, povera. But the one I was most offended by was that monstrosity who was given the glorious ihn zu umschlingen, umschlossen von ihm,in mächtigster Minne vermählt ihm zu sein!. So jerky and out of breath, what happened to the liquid line in von ihm in mächtigster Minne, and then the sublime climb to vermählt ihm zu sein? we know how that SHOULD sound, no? if that is the vaunted Gadski, then I really have to wonder why she is even mentioned as a great Wagnerian, this was awful singing!!!!!!!! You need to put up with bad sound to hear stuff like THAT?

Porgy Amor

A Gadski Bruennie for your listening pleasure (?). I don’t know: sonic limitations of the time, yes, too-hectic tempo, yes, but it sounds like a voice that would have rocked me back on my heels in the house. And it makes a more favorable impression on me than the bit in #23.

marshiemarkII

Sorry Porgysssima, but the mächtigster Minne is THE moment there, and there is no legato, no liquidity in mächtigster and flowing with the orchestra into Minne, that is a MAGICAL moment. She is kind of woofing the syllables, and yet it is really hard to understand what she is singing. So neither word articulation nor liquid legato, just in those two words, that are of course all important. It does sound different from the one in the quiz? or is the sound is yours so much better?
She is also flat (that could be the recording) in the big wieherst and Lohe! she does have a good chest for liegt dort dein Herr. I wonder how big the voice was? it seems like a big top, but she goes off the high notes in a very strange way.

Camille

Gatti-Casazza USED Gadski to get rid of the Immortal Olive, quer vecchiaccio! Much to his later chagrin.

And Nerva, don’t drag out that damned bike because I invoked The Divine One.

And I do NOT mean Miss Bette M., either!

Bianca Castafiore

Scusi, marshieee, but *I* was the first one to identify La Bumbry in this compilation, but remember, like Horne, she only sang this scene in concert (as Jessye and Montsi).

Camille

Stevey. Bravo to tou and I do hope very much you will win this time!

Marschie Meine Gebieterin, ich bin kein wagérienne. Nein, nein!

marshiemarkII

My adorata CammiB I think you misread what I wrote. it seems easy to read “To my everlating shame CammiB I couldn’t have gotten even half of these girls” adn conclude that I meant CammiB couldn’t have gotten, but I really meant ***I***! that is MMII herself could’t have gotten half of the girls
Capisce? you know I would never write such a thing about my most bestest carissssissima CammiB! :-)
even when talking about E-flat major :-) :-) :-)

Camille

Marschie, perdona, but now confusa io son.

Well, no matter. Everyone has tried to turn me into a wagnerian and a new music person for more than forty years, and for forty years it’s been the 3 Be’s 4 me. Beethoven, Berlioz, & Vinnie Bellini.

I was very happy to read good news on Emalie Savoy, since her debut last year at the Met I have been impressed with her and jope good things for this young singer. I think she could really develop into an excellent singer

Now I have to quit as tomorrow I begin rehearsals for luvtennis’s new Ring Cycle and I have to smoke many and many a pack of Gauloises to be anle to sing Have.

HOI HO!

Fallen women must fend for themselves

As Desdemona says, “Buona notte”!

Big kuss
Camille

Camille

Sing HAGEN!

Blasted machines.

marshiemarkII

Carisssima, to the risk of overkill I’ll explain again so there is not even a hint of confusa you. I thought you said you are kein Wagnerian because I might have implied you couldn’t get half of these girls, as I was missing the proverbial ***,*** after CammiB!
I was addressing you, since you set MMII to solve this puzzle on the first page! But the bit about not recognizing half was about me myself, not you of course, I could never be such as boor as to tell anyone “you couldn’t get half of something” as that would be highhanded, and you know MMII is a good gurl and never highhanded :-) :-) :-)
Capisce allora?

Interesting about Madame Gadski, so let me get this straight (no pun), so Madame Fremstad was into bikes but Madame Gadski into cars :-)

Yes I am so happy for la Bellllisisima Emalie, who had a huge success with the War Requiem. She will be singing her first ***Wagner*** on Nov 8th when she does Wesendonck at Bruno Walter Auditorium! I can’t wait!

marshiemarkII

And you know who MY three Bs are: BACH, Beethoven and Bellini :-)

marshiemarkII

Not to mention the fourth one!

marshiemarkII

Where did Nov 8th come from?????? I could swear I wrote MAY 8th!

Nerva Nelli

Is your fourth B “bubble”?

marshiemarkII

No, Buhlerin :-)

marshiemarkII

CammiB Gebieterin???? I thought MMII was the ultimate Buhlerin. Remember the mold for Buhlerin was made from MMII’s wiki page :-)

marshiemarkII

Oh my adorata Bianchisssima, of course you were the first to get Bumbry! and the first to guess Eaglen for no3, which I still have my doubts, but without much foundation, as I don’t know her voice that well. Just saw her one Immolation, one Isolde and the dreadful Norma at Carnegie Hall with Ganassi. You also were the first one to mention the glaring absence of the greatest :-)

Bianca Castafiore

marshieee, I was not the first to guess Eaglen… but thank you so much!!!!

I saw Eaglen in that dreadful concert with the NY Phil. and Mehta, she sang Salome’s last scene and the Immolation Scene, and it was utter filth!!!!! Were you there as well?????

marshiemarkII

No not that Immolation, but the one with Jimmy for his gala in 1996, what was it, his 25th anniversary? It was supposed to be you know who for that Immolation of course, but then she was offered a Ring in Vienna, and was supposed to fly to NYC in between Siegfried and Gotterdammerung, so it was replaced with Dich Teure Halle, first item in concert, and limo waiting and out to airport. As it turned out, she couldn’t make it at all, and Debbie Joy got the Dich teure and Eaglen the Immolation. Oh the memories……

And of course I saw Caballe with Mehta and NY Phil, but that was in what 81 or 82 right?

Bianca Castafiore

Ah yes, Jimmy’s 25th… I saw the whole thing on tv at the time, I don’t recall much of the Immo Scene with Eaglen, I must have gone to the kitchen or taken some other break. Back then Debbie still had a voice…

Caballe’s Immo Scene, I have heard on disk… Ugh…

marshiemarkII

Yes, of course she had a great voice back then. I was never too warm to her Chrysothemis, either in NYC or Buenos Aires, but I thought her Sieglinde in 1997 was really really wonderful! maybe the best I ever saw her do, along with a very early Teco io sto with Pavarotti (at NY Phil I think?) that was really amazing also.

Batty Masetto

By chance I came across this just today. How very sad, seeing her radiant, confident, and in fine voice. And then knowing what would come. How must it feel to have lost such a gift? You can be sure she didn’t do it on purpose…

Quanto Painy Fakor

opens her mouth and communicatese nothing!

Batty Masetto

I completely disagree. It may not be Leonie, but there’s definitely a “there” there.

Bosah

“radiant, confident, and in fine voice”…. and by her own admission depressed, borderline diabetic, feeling sick all the time and always tired.

I think the better question is, “What must it feel to have made a difficult decision and saved her own life?”

Batty Masetto

She was no doubt all that. But there’s a freedom and joy in the performance itself that we haven’t seen from her in a long long time: “Dammit, all those other things may be wrong, but I sure can do this!”

What’s wrong with acknowledging loss? Even if it’s part of a tradeoff that benefited her in other ways -- and we’ll never really know whether the vocal change was caused by the surgery or a basic problem in her technique or hormones or something else or maybe all of them together -- there’s still something very precious that’s gone. Surely nobody is more aware of it than she is. And that’s why I have so little patience with snideness of the “Cacklepuss” variety.

Bosah

Batty -- Very true, there has been a change. That’s undeniable. You’re also right that we’ll never know why -- I appreciate when people don’t automatically jump to weight loss as the only possible reason. But when it comes down to it, I just hope for her the same as I do for everyone -- that they’re as happy, fulfilled and content as possible.

Nerva Nelli

” It was supposed to be you know who for that Immolation of course”

Carla Pohl?
Ingrid Steger?
Janice Yoes?

stevey

Hmm… well, this is certainly causing my OCD to kick into hyper-drive, but in the best way possible!

Greetings Marschie, Cammie, Bianca, and all… Nice to hear from you all on this thread. My God, how I love these things, even if I do torture myself somewhat due to the mental anguish I inflict on myself through all the listening and re-listening, guessing, then second guessing and general shuffling about of order and names. But what can I say- I LOVE PUZZLES!! And God knows these are a LOT more fun, interesting, involving, and pleasurable than any damn ‘Sudoku’ or stupid Crossword Puzzle….

Our doyenne’s recent post updating us as to the puzzles progression with we all sure has served to whet my proverbial whistle. I’m going to pick things apart a little and see what I can make sense out of, here…

Now, she said that TWO posters are presently tied, each having correctly identified 20 out of of the 25 singers. She elucidated further that- of ALL of the guessed singers submitted by we Cher Public, there are TWO singers that NOBODY has yet identified. Hmm…. Well, taking all of this information my thinking cap is on (and ‘Thinking Glass of Wine’ is in hand…) and I’d like to see what I could do with it, and I hope that nobody minds if I hog some space here and kind-of share it with you all as I go along, as maybe together we can figure this out (for me, it’s just about solving the puzzle as opposed to winning the prize!)

Tackling first the LATTER part of the problem- namely, the two singers that none of us have yet included in our prospective guessworks, I thought I’d try and wrack my brain (and the internet, God bless it!!) and come up with as many singers as I could who have recorded (or been
recorded)- somehow, someway, at some time and place- the role of Brunnhilde in Gotterdammerung, or just the excerpt in question (namely, the Immolation Scene). I can’t speak for any of you all, but for me it’s been a lot easier trying to come up with singers that have
recorded/performed-and-recorded the entire role than those who have just sung that one excerpt, if only because there have just been SO damn many ‘recital discs’ put out over the years as singers come and go! Still, this is what I’ve managed to come up with… Now, my INTENTION was to come up with a list of ‘all the suspects, both the usual and the unusual’, so that I could create something of a ‘pool’ of everybody to choose from. Then, from that big pool, I can cross-referenced the posting to eliminate all the singers that have been named and included by someone who posted on the thread.

Anyway, all that cross-referencing enabled me to strike of quite a few Brunnis, but I think I’ve still got a pretty good and thorough Gotterdammerung-Immolation-Brunnhilde pool.
So here they are. This is who I am left with… Brunnhilde’s that we haven’t mentioned yet on that thread:

(and yes, I’m SURE I’ve missed people… as such, if anybody feels like adding anybody I’ve neglected to this ‘pool’, please (PLEASE! (lol)) do so! My hope is that I/we can come up with a good reference pool that we ALL can use as we try and figure this one out….)

Okay, now with the groundwork for figuring THAT out having been laid, let’s see if we can deduce anything based on the OTHER information that La Cieca has given us. Here’s where I’m going with that….:

Now, La Cieca said that first prize is currently held by TWO contributors, each of whom has indentified 20 out of 25 singers correctly (meaning, obviously, each contributor has five singers left to identify). Well, a quick review of any and ALL postings for the ‘Disc Inferno’ up until the time that La C. posted that update reveals that there are actually ONLY TWO contributors who that could possibly be, as they were the only two contributors who ventured a guess that contained at least 20 singers- those contributed by ‘JohnL’ and ‘melziamenighini’ both named only 19 singers and Batty’s, while naming 25 singers, can safely be excluded simply because it’s sheer fabulousness should place it in another catagory altogether (my imagination typically running away with itself, I conjured up a mental image of all of his named singers, all gathered together- perhaps for a publicity shoot- and the image of Kathleen Battle having to sidle up with Petunia Pig, with Marie of Romania on Petunia’s other side… as well as Little Iodine, Celeste Holm, Rosemary’s Baby, Ethel Mertz, Lance Ryan, and Hattie McDaniel all mugging it up together is just too delicious. I was only left wondering who he would have conducting!! :-).
Anyway….
This leaves just two posters left- ‘Etienne F.’, and myself, Stevey, and a quick verification reveals that, yes, we two were the only posters who submitted lists of 20 singers or greater. Ergo, each of us have twenty right, and five spots needing filling or changing. Let’s take a look at both lists and see what we can possibly compare, and/or deduce.

Etienne’s posting allows us to figure out which singers are the ones he needs to fill with certainty, as both ’10’ and ’16’ are vacant. This means that, of his entire list, there are THREE named singers in error. Let’s leave that there for a minute and go over to mine…

I likewise have 5 in error, but seeing as I named all 25 singers we are at a loss as to which ones could definitively be said to be in error, but at least we know that there are definitely five. Now, comparing both lists, let’s see what we have in common:

Now, is there any way we can resolve some of these disputes with a measure of assurity? I’m a determined lad (read: “no life”), so let’s see what we can do!!

Reviewing ‘4’ first, we can happily turn here to YouTube for comparison sake. Now, I won’t post the ‘httpv’ link for each video, (keeping in mind what La C. mentioned on a different posting thread about posting too many videos at once, and subsequently slowing everything down), but I shall post the GENERAL YouTube links to each video, should any of you be interested in ‘cutting and pasting’ and hearing things for yourself.
So, here is Wray- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWmbHqWRo_A (the relevant section begins at 2:18)
and here is Urmana- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqaM7YOpPF8 (the relevant section begins at 1:18)
To my ears, it’s DEFINITELY Urmana!

Moving on, then, to the next selection where we differ, ’17’. Now, I am unaware if Christa Ludwig recorded Brunnhilde’s Immolation scene any more than the one, notable, time with Knappertsbusch in 1962 (a recording which, (FWIW) remains my absolute and very FAVORITE of ALL Immolation scenes that I have ever heard), but I sure haven’t found any.
Here is the link to Ludwig’s Immolation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxXp-A0YD8 (the relevant section begins at 10:48).
Listen to the line “ich geb’ es euch’… with Ludwig the ‘ch’ in ‘euch’ is really pronounced! But such is not the case with our mystery singer ’17’. As well, the sound of the excerpt is remarkably clear- studio sound, perhaps… and (try though I may have) I have never been able to find a copy of the Ludwig/Knappertsbusch Immolation scene that sounds that clear.
Eileen Farrell, mind you, has left souvenirs of quite a few of her Immolation scene performances- 1951, 1957, and 1976 to name three, and all were live. But of note to us here, I believe, is her 1961 recording with Bernstein. Perhaps because it was a studio issue (as opposed to a pirate) I have been unable to find an example of this Immolation scene of hers online that I could share with you, but for those of you who are interested, here’s the CD I am talking about- http://www.allmusic.com/album/wagner-selections-from-tristan-und-isolde-tannhäuser-götterdämmerung-wesendonck-lieder-mw0001558827 and a quick listen to the selection in question will hopefully reveal to you what it did to me, and that it IS, in fact, Farrell.

Now on to 19. Here is the recorded evidence of Shoko Fukuda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urldi5mi4jQ (the relevant section begins right away). To my ears, she seems to be flat quite a bit, and her top notes seem to be (a little) less screamy than singer ’19’. ’19’, to my untrained ears, seems to attack all her high notes dead on… but they’re all pretty much just screams. She also vocalizes the ‘ge’ on the word ‘Loge’ with definite chest voice, which Fukuda does not.
Now on to Bumbry…. I have read that some of our friends on here were unaware that Bumbry had even assayed Brunnhilde’s Immolation but, indeed, she did. It was with Valery Gergiev, in Rotterdam (I think it was early nineties), and I believe the program also contained some ‘Troyens’ excerpts… never let it be said that Ms. Grace Ann lacked ambition. Anyway, unfortunately, there is nothing to be found on YouTube, but please take my word for it- ’19’ is her!

Finally for the last contested singer, ’24’. I was all set to discount Leonie Rysanek right away, believing her tone to be way too distinctive to not be instantly recognizable. I also wasn’t convinced that she had ever even PERFORMED the Immolation scene before (as I would have imagined, if she had, it would have been something we here would have discussed at SOME point in time or other!). I felt that the timbre was very much like Inge Borkh’s- another singer who I know never performed the role in it’s entirety, but DID, in fact, sing the Immolation Scene. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find any aural evidence of Borkh’s Brunni online… but this research here HAS revealed something interesting to me in regards to Rysanek. Namely, that she DID perform a brief, (rather tantalizing) snippet for a Hollywood feature film called ‘Magic Fire’. Furthermore, looking it up online reveals it to be accessible through YouTube, and listening to that snippet reveals that the little bit that she sang DOES contain the same excerpt that contains the mystery piece ’24’ in question, and the two sound exactly the same (again, ‘to my ears’)… Here it is- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3pLACsBMM
So, ’24’- Leonie Rysanek

Now, let’s add these corrections to both lists. First Etienne’s (and, of course, I’m in no way assuming anything for Etienne here… merely hoping that I can use his list with what I believe through what La Cieca has told us contains a number of correct responses to help solve this puzzle…). Here it is:

We have now corrected TWO previously misidentified singers- (’17’ and ’19’), and find that thus, now, there are only THREE spots left that need to be filled- ’10’, ’16’, and one other… unknown! So there is still one ‘odd singer out’.

You will note that with my list as well, we have made TWO corrections (‘4′, ’24’), leaving me with three spots (and singers) that need to be changed. So who to change?? Dare I be presumptuous and take for granted that- seeing as both ‘Etienne’ and I have so many correctly named singers together, and seeing as Etienne DEFINITELY needs to place singers in spots ’10’ and ’16’ (because he hasn’t got anybody there….), shall I then assume that MY ’10’ and ’16’ are also incorrect, and that thus we both still have that one, mystery singer who we have mis-identified…
In the interests of laziness, let’s do that…. then, of course, we still have the one named singer who needs correcting….

Now, about those changes….
Theorin for Hunter. Well, I’ve just been listening to as much of Rita Hunter online as I could find, and there just wasn’t that much vibrato with Rita (to my ears!) than this ‘2’ lady. It was a very pure, ‘feminine’ sound. Theorin (to me), seems to have a piercing quality to her timbre, as well as a quick vibrato, as does ‘2’. I DON’T like the fact that the sound quality is so poor, as of course Theorin is singing in this digital age of ours today, but I had to pick one incorrectly identified singer, so Im guessing my number ‘2’.

I’m also changing my ’16’- Shuard for Austral. I tried to listen to as many excerpts from singers that contained this little snippet as I could find and now my head is spinning. There is a recording of Shuard singing the VERY end of the Immolation under Solti in (I think) 1976, and I thought the voice sounded very familiar, as did the general sound quality., so I thought I’d give her a try.

This ALSO solves La Cieca’s conundrum in regards to two singers (dramatic sopranos), who had not as yet been mentioned by anybody- Theorin, and Shuard!

There is, apparently, still 1 left to change however (I thought, number ’10’, to go by my deductions here)… but, for the life of me, I just CAN’T figure out who the hell it may be. The person it SOUNDS most like is… Susan Bullock! Listening to her, she rolls the ‘r’ on the words ‘trog’ and ‘er’ (in ‘wie er’) to such a degree that I consider it idiosyncratic, and in a way that I don’t believe any native german speaker would, nor any of the other ladies who I tested out (Baird, Watson, Polaski, etc., etc…), Singer ’10’ does this also. This screws up all my math, however… but I’ve been at this long enough so I really DO need learn to quit while I’m ahead… if for no other reason than I’m hungry (and my wine is getting warm…).

Anyway, I hope that this has proved entertaining, useful, enlightening, or interesting to you all… and I look forward- as always- to reading any responses, as well as thoughts and ideas that you may have. My very best wishes to you all, my dear, faceless, Parterre friends!

Siate Felice,

S. :-)

The_Kid

erm, dude, not being a pr^ck or anything, but several of the names you said haven’t been mentioned as yet (Varady, Kappel, Larsen-Todsen, Behrens) have indeed been mentioned. oh, and brigitte hahn should be on your list. of course, my own list (in the other thread) is possibly filled with wrong entries, but y’know, one wants one’s moments in the sun :)

stevey

Aargh!!!!! What happened???? Why did all the bloody videos post?? And in some cases, TWICE! I am SO sorry for this……. :-(