Wow... He's just going off on how New York has nothing consistent besides the Yankees and Syracuse basketball. He also says they have no decent stadiums of any sort.

He raises a point: Why is the college sports scene so dead in the second most populous state in the country?

MikeO

03-27-2006, 02:15 PM

Wow... He's just going off on how New York has nothing consistent besides the Yankees and Syracuse basketball. He also says they have no decent stadiums of any sort.

He raises a point: Why is the college sports scene so dead in the second most populous state in the country?

He's a fool. I don't know how far he is going back, but the last 10 years or so......I guess the NY Giants haven't won and been in Super Bowls of late. I guess Buffalo going to 4 straight Super Bowls isn't great. I guess the Knicks going to the Finals in 1999 isn't great. The Mets weren't in the World Series??? How about the Rangers Stanly Cup and having a great year this year. The Sabers weren't in the Stanley Cup Finals a few years back?? MSG is a dump? The Meadowlands isn't a decent stadium? Carrier Dome isn't the largest on campus stadium for College Sports? Ok the Islanders play in a dump. One stadium....whooptie friggin doo!

And....incase he didn't know NY is building new stadiums FOR the Yanks and Mets within the next 5 years they will be done. I guess he forgot to bring up that point.

On the college sports scene its easy. You have Syracuse which is the #1 college in the state. But to look at the NYC area, college sports compete with the pro sports. And those schools can't have stadiums on campus or near a campus. They must play in MSG or these huge arenas. You have UCONN which is a stones throw away from NYC that has killed St.Johns (and Seton Hall in NJ). Also, NY State high school football is very poor. Unlike in Ohio, Texas, Fl, Penn....where High School football is a "year round activity" in some sort. It isn't in NY state, which hurts college football in the state/area. Since the schools can't recruit in state and must go outside the state more.

The man is clueless!! I don't know if he expects EVERY NY team to just win championships just because they are from NY or what. To hold those teams to a higher standard is a JOKE. When was the last time a team from CLEVELAND won anything??????? How about San Diego????????? Seattle???

phunwin

03-27-2006, 02:46 PM

Wow... He's just going off on how New York has nothing consistent besides the Yankees and Syracuse basketball. He also says they have no decent stadiums of any sort.

He raises a point: Why is the college sports scene so dead in the second most populous state in the country?

To be fair, we've fallen to third behind Texas.

It's inane to hold NY to a higher standard, I think. No one does this to Los Angeles, for example, which is a massive city, yet is such a terrible sports town that the NFL left, no one cared, and the NFL is in no hurry to come back. (And yes, I know we're talking about states and not cities.)

But realistically, this is a lousy period for sports in the Empire State. SU hoops is consistently good, but no one else is, and there's no college football worth a crap. The Knicks are terrible. The Yankees consistently fail to live up to expectations. The Mets look good on paper but have proven absolutely nothing so far. The Giants are okay, but the Jets are terrible, as are the Bills. There are three hockey teams that no one gives a crap about. So, it's a down period.

MikeO

03-27-2006, 02:53 PM

To be fair, we've fallen to third behind Texas.

It's inane to hold NY to a higher standard, I think. No one does this to Los Angeles, for example, which is a massive city, yet is such a terrible sports town that the NFL left, no one cared, and the NFL is in no hurry to come back. (And yes, I know we're talking about states and not cities.)

But realistically, this is a lousy period for sports in the Empire State. SU hoops is consistently good, but no one else is, and there's no college football worth a crap. The Knicks are terrible. The Yankees consistently fail to live up to expectations. The Mets look good on paper but have proven absolutely nothing so far. The Giants are okay, but the Jets are terrible, as are the Bills. There are three hockey teams that no one gives a crap about. So, it's a down period.

Well, hockey is down all together, but the Rangers are having a great year and will do huge business in the city. I don't see the knock on the Yanks. Look, you could spend $700 mill and not win a championship every year. The Yanks have won the division for 10 straight years, are in the playoffs every year, that isn't failure to live up to expectations. Christ they won 4 rings in 5 years not that long ago! If they spent what they spend and failed to make the playoffs, then rip them. The Mets have had some good runs in 1999, 2000 and 2001 and such. They haven't been awful for decades. Giants were in the SB a few years back. Jets/Bills are playoff caliber most years.

He's a fool. I don't know how far he is going back, but the last 10 years or so......I guess the NY Giants haven't won and been in Super Bowls of late. I guess Buffalo going to 4 straight Super Bowls isn't great. I guess the Knicks going to the Finals in 1999 isn't great. The Mets weren't in the World Series??? How about the Rangers Stanly Cup and having a great year this year. The Sabers weren't in the Stanley Cup Finals a few years back?? MSG is a dump? The Meadowlands isn't a decent stadium? Carrier Dome isn't the largest on campus stadium for College Sports? Ok the Islanders play in a dump. One stadium....whooptie friggin doo!

Interesting.... Had to go back kinda far for non-Yankees/Syracuse glory. All those teams you mentioned in the first paragraph were 7+ years ago. Most closer to 12 or more. And none sustained. Note the key word "consistency" in the first post. MSG may not be a "dump," but it IS outdated, and you take your life in your hands going there some nights. Security is often poor. The Carrior Dome? Large, yes. But, a dump. Sorry. Meadowlands? OK, I guess.

And....incase he didn't know NY is building new stadiums FOR the Yanks and Mets within the next 5 years they will be done. I guess he forgot to bring up that point.

Actually, he did bring that up.

On the college sports scene its easy. You have Syracuse which is the #1 college in the state. But to look at the NYC area, college sports compete with the pro sports. And those schools can't have stadiums on campus or near a campus. They must play in MSG or these huge arenas. You have UCONN which is a stones throw away from NYC that has killed St.Johns (and Seton Hall in NJ). Also, NY State high school football is very poor. Unlike in Ohio, Texas, Fl, Penn....where High School football is a "year round activity" in some sort. It isn't in NY state, which hurts college football in the state/area. Since the schools can't recruit in state and must go outside the state more.

Why isn't a state of 20 million producing a decent cross section of athletes that DO stay in state? I'd blame the athletic departments. There's plenty of allure to NYC, and I'd daresay other parts of NY as well.

The man is clueless!! I don't know if he expects EVERY NY team to just win championships just because they are from NY or what. To hold those teams to a higher standard is a JOKE. When was the last time a team from CLEVELAND won anything??????? How about San Diego????????? Seattle???

Actually, Herd is far from clueless. And I don't believe he said he expects every team in NY to win championships at all. You're saying that. However, I will underscore the very obvious fact that your city has two teams per sport, 'cept for basketball.

Not holding them to a higher standard, but for the No. 1 market that it is, it sure is slim pickings these days. Bills? awful. Knicks? beyond awful. Jets? a mess. Giants? Wildly up and down since 1990. Mets? Yankees? Competitive, I guess, but with a win-it-all-at-all-costs mentality? Largely a disappointment since 2000. Rangers? Finally on track with the new NHL rules, but man have they underachieved since 1994. Isles? Ugh. Colleges? Syracuse, granted.

Not trying to bash on New York sports (well, Ok, yes I enjoy it), but the point of the segment was valid. (1) No pro titles since 2000 for a city/state that demands excellence; No non-baseball title in 12 years. (2) No college presence to speak of besides occassional runs by Syracuse. (3) No modern, enviable venues to really enjoy a game. For a state of 20 million, that must be tough to take.

PressCoverage

03-27-2006, 03:14 PM

It's true you could say the same thing about California's title futility lately. But the Div. 1 college scene there is prosperous, indeed.

King Felix

03-27-2006, 05:33 PM

he doesnt give a ****

Section126

03-28-2006, 12:22 AM

It's true you could say the same thing about California's title futility lately. But the Div. 1 college scene there is prosperous, indeed.

That is the key word...

But USC has been dominant lately....

But you did have the Angels win against another Cali team in the Giants...and of course...the recent mini dynasty of the Lakers.

MikeO

03-28-2006, 03:15 AM

The Carrior Dome? Large, yes. But, a dump. Sorry. .

How many times have you been there? Last event you saw there?

MikeO

03-28-2006, 03:24 AM

And "Herd" is clueless in general. The guy almost lost his job at ESPN for his comments after the death of Eddie Guerrero.

A sign of him being clueless on this topic is the whole "stadium thing". You KNOW the Yanks and Mets are building new stadiums. So, why knock the stadiums. MSG isn't a dump, I'm sorry. And the Meadowlands (not to mention is in NJ) is going to get a face lift as well. Not many if any colleges can compete with the Dome in general for a one-in-all facility.

Sounds like a SLOW NEWS DAY, so "Herd" decided to find a topic (pick on NY) and hope to get people from 49 other states to pile on with him. Whatever.......bring back KORNHEISER!!!!!! That was "real radio"!

PressCoverage

03-28-2006, 10:21 AM

How many times have you been there? Last event you saw there?

Once was enough... For a BC football game 6-7 years ago... . DUMP

PressCoverage

03-28-2006, 10:27 AM

And "Herd" is clueless in general. The guy almost lost his job at ESPN for his comments after the death of Eddie Guerrero.

A sign of him being clueless on this topic is the whole "stadium thing". You KNOW the Yanks and Mets are building new stadiums. So, why knock the stadiums. MSG isn't a dump, I'm sorry. And the Meadowlands (not to mention is in NJ) is going to get a face lift as well. Not many if any colleges can compete with the Dome in general for a one-in-all facility.

Sounds like a SLOW NEWS DAY, so "Herd" decided to find a topic (pick on NY) and hope to get people from 49 other states to pile on with him. Whatever.......bring back KORNHEISER!!!!!! That was "real radio"!

But then, I didn't say MSG was a dump. I said it was outdated and dangerous. So what is your point there? Just because the "Dome" is versatile doesn't make it an appealing place to watch a game.

I'm glad you were able to put a positive spin on the whole thing by smearing Herd as best you could. Regardless, his points were made. The college sports scene is dead as can be in New York, and pros aren't much to sing about either currently.

MikeO

03-28-2006, 01:24 PM

Once was enough... For a BC football game 6-7 years ago... . DUMP

Thanks for proving my point. You speak of what yout don't know. It isn't the same place from when you were last there.

2 years ago they added jumbo trons, field turf, re-did seating. Improved the landscaping outside, improved sound system, added food/concessions (not just hot-dogs anymore) and did some "interior-design" to make the place flat out look better.

You clearly have some anti-NY complex!! But at least get some facts correct before you go off on your inane tangents.

PressCoverage

03-28-2006, 11:31 PM

Thanks for proving my point. You speak of what yout don't know. It isn't the same place from when you were last there.

2 years ago they added jumbo trons, field turf, re-did seating. Improved the landscaping outside, improved sound system, added food/concessions (not just hot-dogs anymore) and did some "interior-design" to make the place flat out look better.

You clearly have some anti-NY complex!! But at least get some facts correct before you go off on your inane tangents.

What point? Yeah, Cowherd mentioned it had been fixed up a bit... and then mentioned it was still a dump... Bad seating, stale, even a bit smelly.

Nope, no complex. But I do enjoy watching them fail. Because most New York sports fans constantly act like they know everything. It's so satisfying when their favorite teams crap out, and then the excuses start rolling.

Quelonio

03-28-2006, 11:49 PM

Another point you seem to absolutely not take into consideration, is that you should see what schools are in the New York Area, most of them are not sports schools, they are mainly schools for education, so that pretty much screws a lot of their chances to compete and have cool stadiums... I mena I remember at NYU the only damn sport that was Div. 1 was fencing... that was exciting.. .not really

MikeO

03-29-2006, 12:36 AM

Another point you seem to absolutely not take into consideration, is that you should see what schools are in the New York Area, most of them are not sports schools, they are mainly schools for education, so that pretty much screws a lot of their chances to compete and have cool stadiums... I mena I remember at NYU the only damn sport that was Div. 1 was fencing... that was exciting.. .not really

very Valid point, but your better off talking to a wall than some people around here.

I would ALSO love to know how Cowherd knows the Dome is smelly. I'm sure when he lived in Vegas and Seattle before just moving to CT about 18 months ago he watched a ton of games there live to make such a statement:shakeno:

Pennington's Rocket Arm

03-29-2006, 01:08 AM

i dunno, it just seems like all the big cities don't have the best sports followings, and it's because there's a lot more going on in those places. it's no coincidence that the more "diehard" places are pretty boring...green bay in the NFL, nebraska in college...

King Felix

03-29-2006, 03:05 AM

very Valid point, but your better off talking to a wall than some people around here.

I would ALSO love to know how Cowherd knows the Dome is smelly. I'm sure when he lived in Vegas and Seattle before just moving to CT about 18 months ago he watched a ton of games there live to make such a statement:shakeno:

and portland.:shakeno:

Boik14

03-30-2006, 03:18 AM

He's a fool. I don't know how far he is going back, but the last 10 years or so......I guess the NY Giants haven't won and been in Super Bowls of late. I guess Buffalo going to 4 straight Super Bowls isn't great. I guess the Knicks going to the Finals in 1999 isn't great. The Mets weren't in the World Series??? How about the Rangers Stanly Cup and having a great year this year. The Sabers weren't in the Stanley Cup Finals a few years back?? MSG is a dump? The Meadowlands isn't a decent stadium? Carrier Dome isn't the largest on campus stadium for College Sports? Ok the Islanders play in a dump. One stadium....whooptie friggin doo!

And....incase he didn't know NY is building new stadiums FOR the Yanks and Mets within the next 5 years they will be done. I guess he forgot to bring up that point.

On the college sports scene its easy. You have Syracuse which is the #1 college in the state. But to look at the NYC area, college sports compete with the pro sports. And those schools can't have stadiums on campus or near a campus. They must play in MSG or these huge arenas. You have UCONN which is a stones throw away from NYC that has killed St.Johns (and Seton Hall in NJ). Also, NY State high school football is very poor. Unlike in Ohio, Texas, Fl, Penn....where High School football is a "year round activity" in some sort. It isn't in NY state, which hurts college football in the state/area. Since the schools can't recruit in state and must go outside the state more.

The man is clueless!! I don't know if he expects EVERY NY team to just win championships just because they are from NY or what. To hold those teams to a higher standard is a JOKE. When was the last time a team from CLEVELAND won anything??????? How about San Diego????????? Seattle??? I totally agree. Colin Cowherd is a moron. I swear there has never been a point that I have ever agreed with him on so I simply stopped listening to his annoying ***. If there's a sports radio host who knows less about sports please point him out. Hes like a more annoying version of Chris "Mad Dog" Russo but much dumber and even more pompous if thats possible.

Cowherd shows how little he knows about NY sports when he starts talking about stadiums. Does he have any idea of how much money it takes to properly run NYC? Plus the overwhelming majority of NYC/Long Island is and has been deadset against public funding for stadiums (see: NYJ stadium protests last year). The only reason the NYM and NYY are getting new stadiums is cause the owners are paying for the overwhelming majority of it, all of it in the Mets case because Fred Wilpon offered to. I think George is getting like $50m from the state if its even that much. But with the insane prices of land in this city how can you build an arena that costs over a Billion and still make money? Plus most of the arena's/stadiums arent that old; i list them with each franchise below.

To further the point I can break down each NY franchise.
The NYK made the playoffs for 15 straight years during the Ewing era and a couple times after. 17 of the last 20 overall. The only reason they dont have at least 1 title to show for the Ewing years is cause of Jordan's Bulls. Every year they finished 2nd. Theyre in a dry spell now and since the NBA seems to be very cyclical its not uncommon.
Finals Appearances: 94 and 99
Arena Status: The new MSG was built in the late 60's/early 70's and has been touched up over the years. Its still "The Mecca of Basketball"....its the best place to watch a basketball game in the world once you get past the corporate fans with tickets.

The Jets..well ok theyre trash but lets face it they still share a nice stadium with the Giants. And no one cares about them anyway.

I cant speak on the Bills or Sabres, I dont know or care about them or their fans. Upstate/western NY is a whole different world from NYC/Long Island. I dont even consider it New York; no one in the city or LI does. No here follows them and they dont get local new coverage. Thats not meant to be pompous sounding (though im sure it sounds that way) thats just speaking from experience.

The Giants: Always an all or nothing franchise. They either finish 1st or are horrible with very little in between. Still very well run and they dont stay down for long.
Sb appearance in 2000.
Arena status: Good (Built in the early 70's) and a new one on the way. A fun place to watch a football game with a very loyal fanbase as evidenced by the fact that season ticket waiting list is 20 years long and growing last time I checked.

The Rangers: Playoff-less for 8 straight seasons because of poor management decisions regarding payroll. poor prospect development hurt them for the last 8 years. The salary cap was the best thing for them because it forced changes in both areas.
Arena status: Its a bad ice rink for the players (always voted poorly in player surveys) but is a good place to watch a game once you get past the $7 watered down beer. As far as the Arena status itself...see NYK.

The Islanders: Playoffs for the last 3 years though its unlikely this year. A younger team after the trade deadline with a good farm and very committed ownership. Charles Wang has lost over 40 million the last 2-3 years while trying to get the new arena (which hes finally getting). He helped resuscitate my hockey team from terrible ownership groups ranging from fraudulent owners (john Spano) to just plain cheap owners. All in all the long term prognosis is very good. And with a new GM on the way (who can be worse then Mad Mike Milbury?) whats not to love?
3 straight playoff appearances
Arena status: The opposition hates the Nassau Mosoleum. Its old (been there since the franchises inception pretty much) and desolate. the scoreboard above the rink has fallen more then once; actually its a once a year occurance it seems. Even though its a little hole in the wall, its very cramped, right on top of the rink, keeps noise in the arena (more of which gets artificially filtered in), and the ice surface is choppy. When the team has its good years it not only gets loud but very difficult to play and breathe in there because its so cramped and so it still provides a real home ice advantage. Tampa didnt like it last year, Toronto absolutely hated it a few years back. New state of the art arena on the way by 2011.

The Mets and Yanks: Ill group them together because in the end Baseball is the biggest thing in NY. Every NY'er knows it, whether they want to admit it or not is a different issue. The Yankees speak for themselves; the most successfully run franchise of any of the 4 major sports in north america. Steinbrenner turned them from just winners to a multi billion dollar industry as evidenced by the fact that in 2004 the NYY accounted for nearly 30% of baseball's total revenue and about 32% of market revenue. The Mets...theyre the stepchild of the city, though I love them, but they may be able to gain a much bigger stranglehold of the NY fanbase if they can build on the young core. Theyve never been able to win over a long stretch of time but theyve done so sporadically. Considering it typically takes 20-25 years for a new franchise to get established they havent done badly at all aside from the initial years and the early-mid 90's which were horrendous. Ownership spends willingly and they finally have a good GM and a chance to establish themselves long term imo.
Playoff appearances...last 10 years for the NYY, 2000 for the mets.
Stadium status: Shea is a poophole that shakes when its packed but its my team's poophole and to be honest i like it. NYY stadium is nice, monument park is something every baseball fan should see. The bathrooms are a dump and its in the south bronx so if you visit get a vest and stay low to the ground cause it is really ugly and impoverished there. Both franchises are getting new stadiums within the next 5 years.

Thanks for playing Colin....anyone have his fax #. I can rip him a new one on this topic.

Boik14

03-30-2006, 03:36 AM

Another point you seem to absolutely not take into consideration, is that you should see what schools are in the New York Area, most of them are not sports schools, they are mainly schools for education, so that pretty much screws a lot of their chances to compete and have cool stadiums... I mena I remember at NYU the only damn sport that was Div. 1 was fencing... that was exciting.. .not reallyExactly! And part of that is because:
A. there's no room anywhere near campus' for stadiums
B. Land in NYC is insanely expensive so schools that are public..or heck even private institutions, can simply not afford it. The Jets stadium last year would have cost OVER 1.3B! The only place these schools can do anything for sports is MSG. And if they build it for basketball or football than we start getting into title 9 which in this city would mean that the athletic budget would be higher then the education budget.

Its not that NY doesnt produce athletes, we cant keep them in state cause there's no where for them for go in major college football or baseball. Hoops we can keep a lot in the big east area but as I said only 1 team can really play in MSG, and thats St. Johns. In the last 10 years though NYC/Long Island has produced plenty of pro talent and this doesnt even include outside of the city/LI region because im entirely unfamiliar with anything beyond Westchester county. Upstate (past westchester) and Western NY are a blur.

Football: Morlon Greenwood, West Virginia's Jason Gwaltny (extremely highly recruited), Brandon Moore (49ers LB - Rob Moore's lil bro, also from long Island), Shane Olivea (charger OL) among many others that its too late to think of.
Hoops: I can create a list that would be nearly 1/5 of the nba. Dont make me do it. There's at least 1-2 NY guys on just about every nba team. Guards especially. We produce those in abundance. Next
Hockey: A sore spot. other then Mike Komisarek (11th overall pick by the Canadiens in the 02 draft) I dont know of many. I just assume all hockey players are russian or canadian.
Baseball: Too many to name; mostly from LI since NYC schools generally do not have baseball teams because there's nowhere for them to play.

pigskinguy

03-30-2006, 12:26 PM

He's a fool. I don't know how far he is going back, but the last 10 years or so......I guess the NY Giants haven't won and been in Super Bowls of late. I guess Buffalo going to 4 straight Super Bowls isn't great. I guess the Knicks going to the Finals in 1999 isn't great. The Mets weren't in the World Series??? How about the Rangers Stanly Cup and having a great year this year. The Sabers weren't in the Stanley Cup Finals a few years back?? MSG is a dump? The Meadowlands isn't a decent stadium? Carrier Dome isn't the largest on campus stadium for College Sports? Ok the Islanders play in a dump. One stadium....whooptie friggin doo!

And....incase he didn't know NY is building new stadiums FOR the Yanks and Mets within the next 5 years they will be done. I guess he forgot to bring up that point.

On the college sports scene its easy. You have Syracuse which is the #1 college in the state. But to look at the NYC area, college sports compete with the pro sports. And those schools can't have stadiums on campus or near a campus. They must play in MSG or these huge arenas. You have UCONN which is a stones throw away from NYC that has killed St.Johns (and Seton Hall in NJ). Also, NY State high school football is very poor. Unlike in Ohio, Texas, Fl, Penn....where High School football is a "year round activity" in some sort. It isn't in NY state, which hurts college football in the state/area. Since the schools can't recruit in state and must go outside the state more.

The man is clueless!! I don't know if he expects EVERY NY team to just win championships just because they are from NY or what. To hold those teams to a higher standard is a JOKE. When was the last time a team from CLEVELAND won anything??????? How about San Diego????????? Seattle???

Of course, The Meadowlands is in New Jersey not New York.....but whatever.