The Oilers are deep at forward and light on defensemen, while the Maple Leafs are relatively deep on the blue line but are looking to improve down the middle, which prompted Cox to mention via Twitter that this "persistent chatter" -- no word on who is actually doing the talking -- makes some sense.

Might there be common ground for a deal there?

DOES IT ADD UP?

Often-injured Tim Connolly, who was supposed to play centre on Toronto's the top line alongside Phil Kessel, is out with a bad shoulder and not expected to play in the Maple Leafs first two games, including the season-opener against Montreal.

Gagner, meanwhile, has been nursing a sprained ankle, so there's no guarantee he'd be ready any sooner than Connolly. In the longer term, however, GM Brian Burke might be looking for somebody like Gagner to bolster his top nine. Burke just added face-off specialist David Steckel, but he's a fourth-liner.

The Oilers have Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Shawn Horcoff, Eric Belanger, Anton Lander and Gagner, when he's healthy, as centres. They also have Chris Vandevelde and Ryan O'Marra on the AHL farm.

While there are questions about Edmonton's blue line depth, especially with Ryan Whitney coming off ankle surgery and Ladislav Smid out with a separated shoulder, the Maple Leafs are heavy on the back end.

They have Dion Phaneuf, Carl Gunnarsson, John-Michael Liles, Luke Schenn, Mike Komisarek and rookie Jake Gardiner in their top six, with Cody Franson, Keith Aulie and Matt Lashoff, just sent to the minors, waiting in the wings.

Even if the Maple Leafs are interested in Gagner, as Cox says, it doesn't mean a thing unless Edmonton GM Steve Tambellini sees somebody in that group as a useful part on his blue line.

Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.

A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.

@ DS: You seem to have me confused with QB or something. Never did I recommend nor advocate trading our young players for picks or beans or even unicorns. I simply inquired about the worth of a player in a certain scenario and expressed what I thought his value was or could be. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. A simple question to a person whom I felt could give me a real answer. Like I stated before, I asked because I don't know. There has been a lot more outlandish trade scenarios in this comment section than mine. It's like I love losing? Come on, give your head a shake. Hypothetical scenario man.

And for the record, if I were GM and another GM offered up a real live Unicorn for Samwise... I would take it.

He was on pace for close to 50 BEFORE being sliced open by a skate blade. Moving up to the mid 50's or even the high 50's is NOT as big of a jump as you present it.

And if Gagner at 21 could produce points at the pace of someone who has been playing Pro for 14 years, dont you think that just maybe giving up on him at 22 is a tad pre-mature?

Obviously if the price is right anybody is available, but how long are Horcoff and Belanger going to be able to be 2C's? I look at RNH, Gagner, and Lander and I see the team's future #1,2,3 all set up but with almost nobody coming behind them. I see the wing, on the other hand, and I see kids waiting down on the farm to snatch time away from anyone who faulters.

Combine that with the near certainty that Hemsky has to be moved regardless of what the Oilers do with Sam Gagner and I dont see a need to rush the movement of Samwise.

"I look at RNH, Gagner, and Lander and I see the team's future #1,2,3 all set up but with almost nobody coming behind them"

Ryan Martindale
Tyler Pitlick
Travis Ewanyk

Those guys all have a shot, at least one year away each guy and probably three; However to say there is almost no one behind them is huge mistake.

@ DS: You seem to have me confused with QB or something. Never did I recommend nor advocate trading our young players for picks or beans or even unicorns. I simply inquired about the worth of a player in a certain scenario and expressed what I thought his value was or could be. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. A simple question to a person whom I felt could give me a real answer. Like I stated before, I asked because I don't know. There has been a lot more outlandish trade scenarios in this comment section than mine. It's like I love losing? Come on, give your head a shake. Hypothetical scenario man.

And for the record, if I were GM and another GM offered up a real live Unicorn for Samwise... I would take it.

You might want to check them yourself.
I checked the ten top centers 7(H.Sedin, J Thorton, P Datsyuk, C Perry, V Lecavlier, B Richards, M.Richards) the 5 year rule held true and 3(Crosby, Malkin, Stall) came in right away and scored 75+ points a year with in the five years. so thats 70% of the top ten centers in the league. Gagner isn't a top ranked center yet but he has also played 4 years. And of the 7centers named above Gagner ranked between Thorton at 44.8PPS and H Sedin at 34PPS Gagner at 43.2PPS.

What the?

Those are the top 10 centers?

If we want to pick 75 points as the magical number for a "breakout" the actual top 10 centers broke 75 points in year:

Sedin 5

Stamkos 2

B Richards 4(74 points in year 3)

Stall 2

Toews 4 (69 points in year 2)

Getzlaf 3

Kesler 6

Kopitar 2

Ribero 8 (but it was only his 3rd full season

Thorton 5 (but he had 71 in 72 games his 3rd year)

Not only did some of the guys you listed score 75+ before their 5 year, some of them aren't even centers.

You missed my whole point Year five is generally when centers get it. Year five and there after they consistiently break it as for the first four years I averaged them out to make a point Gagner isn't that far off, You also noticed that I said that the top four on the list did it consistenly. Every player I posted was listed as a Center by the Team so If you want to argue that point go tell the Teams, their roster listing is wrong according to you. I didn't Include Some of those centers listed as they are not generally considered to be in the top ten, Toews would be the closet but is he a better center than any I have listed? IMO no.But other wise TY for proveing my point that first line centers don't magically put up 75 points per season right off. Second line centers (which most agree Gagner falls into) is this season I bet.

You missed my whole point Year five is generally when centers get it. Year five and there after they consistiently break it as for the first four years I averaged them out to make a point Gagner isn't that far off, You also noticed that I said that the top four on the list did it consistenly. Every player I posted was listed as a Center by the Team so If you want to argue that point go tell the Teams, their roster listing is wrong according to you. I didn't Include Some of those centers listed as they are not generally considered to be in the top ten, Toews would be the closet but is he a better center than any I have listed? IMO no.But other wise TY for proveing my point that first line centers don't magically put up 75 points per season right off. Second line centers (which most agree Gagner falls into) is this season I bet.

You don't really have a point because your whole premise is incorrect, top centers usually "get it" far before year 5. So I'm not really sure why you keep stating otherwise.

Even some of the guys you listed that supposedly "prove your point" put up 75+ before their 5th year. B Richards in year 4 and M Richards in year 3. So you don't even have your facts straight.

Also, considering theirs usually less then 10 centers per year that put up 75+ points, that's a ridiculously high mark to put up as your definition.

Finally, Perry is listed as a winger, which is what he is. So I have no idea where you are getting that he is a center from.

The string of 40 point seasons aside, I look at Sam Gagner's game and I just don't see anything special there. He lacks the quickness, intensity and strength to be a top-tier player. Sure, we can keep the guy and he might eventually be a 50-60 point centre, but his total game is just plain mediocre. This is the type of player that gets a ton of ice-time on a non-playoff team. I'm not surprised Toronto is interested in him.

My point is Gagner is going into year five.
it as you have proven differnt centers differnt times to become the 1st-2nd line center on their teams. Last year Gagner upped his F/O% and was on his way to haveing a career year. Year five is when he takes that next step like Ribero, Sedin, Kesler,etc. But if you look at their first four years Gagner is ahead of them.

You don't really have a point because your whole premise is incorrect, top centers usually "get it" far before year 5. So I'm not really sure why you keep stating otherwise.

Even some of the guys you listed that supposedly "prove your point" put up 75+ before their 5th year. B Richards in year 4 and M Richards in year 3. So you don't even have your facts straight.

Also, considering theirs usually less then 10 centers per year that put up 75+ points, that's a ridiculously high mark to put up as your definition.

Finally, Perry is listed as a winger, which is what he is. So I have no idea where you are getting that he is a center from.

Sam's case is a bit more complicated. Those other guys you're thinking about were on teams in "win mode" and given support with actual NHL'ers as linemates.

I'm not going to say that Sam is a #1 forward because I think he still has to earn it. But he would have been far better off in a team system that wasn't so completely screwed up. Hell, on most decent teams he'd only be in his third year.

Travis Ewanyk and Martindale are waiting in the wings. Beware real NHLers, these late rounders with huge question marks are comin for your spots.

Arch,
Beg to differ on your conclusion. While it is true these young guys have not proven anything in terms of being NHL ready, it can be argued their pedigree is better than two of the incumbent centers of which you speak. Martindale and Ewanyk were both 3rd rounders, 61st and 74th respectively. Belanger and Horcoff were both 4th rounders 96th and 99th overall. And the two younger fellows were drafted by the scouting mensch, Stu TBS MacGregor.
While neither player is a lock by any stretch, my only point is they are arguably further up the food chain than 10 and 20, at the same point in their young careers. Ewanyk will never be a big time scorer in the NHL but he is an excellent face off guy, checker, agitator and will drop the mitts at the drop of a hat. In a few years if he continues to develop could be a valuable checking center. Ask the "Nuge" how much fun he was to play against during the WHL playoffs last year. 5 on 5 Nuge did not do much especially when the OKings had last change. Martindale is a bit of an enigma but is a big body with skill. Do not count him out either. Respectfully, JS.

Arch,
Beg to differ on your conclusion. While it is true these young guys have not proven anything in terms of being NHL ready, it can be argued their pedigree is better than two of the incumbent centers of which you speak. Martindale and Ewanyk were both 3rd rounders, 61st and 74th respectively. Belanger and Horcoff were both 4th rounders 96th and 99th overall. And the two younger fellows were drafted by the scouting mensch, Stu TBS MacGregor.
While neither player is a lock by any stretch, my only point is they are arguably further up the food chain than 10 and 20, at the same point in their young careers. Ewanyk will never be a big time scorer in the NHL but he is an excellent face off guy, checker, agitator and will drop the mitts at the drop of a hat. In a few years if he continues to develop could be a valuable checking center. Ask the "Nuge" how much fun he was to play against during the WHL playoffs last year. 5 on 5 Nuge did not do much especially when the OKings had last change. Martindale is a bit of an enigma but is a big body with skill. Do not count him out either. Respectfully, JS.

The odds of 3rd round picks developing into something more then a fringe NHL'er is honestly in the 10- 15 percent range.

Arch,
Beg to differ on your conclusion. While it is true these young guys have not proven anything in terms of being NHL ready, it can be argued their pedigree is better than two of the incumbent centers of which you speak. Martindale and Ewanyk were both 3rd rounders, 61st and 74th respectively. Belanger and Horcoff were both 4th rounders 96th and 99th overall. And the two younger fellows were drafted by the scouting mensch, Stu TBS MacGregor.
While neither player is a lock by any stretch, my only point is they are arguably further up the food chain than 10 and 20, at the same point in their young careers. Ewanyk will never be a big time scorer in the NHL but he is an excellent face off guy, checker, agitator and will drop the mitts at the drop of a hat. In a few years if he continues to develop could be a valuable checking center. Ask the "Nuge" how much fun he was to play against during the WHL playoffs last year. 5 on 5 Nuge did not do much especially when the OKings had last change. Martindale is a bit of an enigma but is a big body with skill. Do not count him out either. Respectfully, JS.

Ask the "Nuge" how much fun he was to play against during the WHL playoffs last year. 5 on 5 Nuge did not do much especially when the OKings had last change.

What are you talking about? In 4 playoff games against Edmonton Hopkins put up 9 points and 7 of them were even strength.

Ask the "Nuge" how much fun he was to play against during the WHL playoffs last year. 5 on 5 Nuge did not do much especially when the OKings had last change.

What are you talking about? In 4 playoff games against Edmonton Hopkins put up 9 points and 7 of them were even strength.

It was well documented and reported throughout the series that the Rebels did everything they could to keep NH away from Ewanyk and they succeeded with last change at home. They could not on the road. All I am saying was NH only managed one ES point when Ewanyk was on the ice. His performance in that series elevated his draft position. Period.

It was well documented and reported throughout the series that the Rebels did everything they could to keep NH away from Ewanyk and they succeeded with last change at home. They could not on the road. All I am saying was NH only managed one ES point when Ewanyk was on the ice. His performance in that series elevated his draft position. Period.

Interesting, because in the two games played in Edmonton he had 4 even strength points. He only had 3 EV points in Red Deer.

OB1
You are making my point. If the chances are 10 - 15 % for a 3rd rounder, what are they for a 4th rounder?, which Horcoff and Belanger both were. The point I am making is do not discount them out of hand because they are 3rd rounders. As I said initially (and I will slow down this time for your benefit) T-h-e-y a-r-e f-a-r f-r-o-m l-o-c-k-s. But obviously neither were Horc and Belanger when they were 18 and 19 years old and based solely on draft position could turn out better than either one. I only make this point as Arch indicated they were late round picks 9and really third round is not all that late.

Hey man. Debate is fine but even fan debates go off the tracks when you start comparing 3rd round WHL draftees to, well, Sam Gagner. That's pulling the thread pretty tight, wouldn't you say? Next people will be talking about that 10 year old kid in Clareview house league who's really rippin' it up.

Fair enough, David S. I did not initiate the Ewanyk / Martindale thread and certainly did not intend to hijack the Gagner trade talk, which I agree is much more relevant - and could be even more pressing if Whitney continues to be out. To be clear, no one was comparing either to Gagner only saying it is too early to say an 18 or 19 year old has no shot to replace Horcoff or Belanger in 3 years.

I just hate misinformation. Speaking of which: Tig u Glass. N-H only had 2 ES points in Edmonton during playoffs. I will shut up now (on this topic anyway).

Hey man. Debate is fine but even fan debates go off the tracks when you start comparing 3rd round WHL draftees to, well, Sam Gagner. That's pulling the thread pretty tight, wouldn't you say? Next people will be talking about that 10 year old kid in Clareview house league who's really rippin' it up.

Kind of missing the point. Arch originally implied that we are not deep at centre prospects and I begged to differ. Mentioning Pitlick and the "3rdies"

Fair enough, David S. I did not initiate the Ewanyk / Martindale thread and certainly did not intend to hijack the Gagner trade talk, which I agree is much more relevant - and could be even more pressing if Whitney continues to be out. To be clear, no one was comparing either to Gagner only saying it is too early to say an 18 or 19 year old has no shot to replace Horcoff or Belanger in 3 years.

I just hate misinformation. Speaking of which: Tig u Glass. N-H only had 2 ES points in Edmonton during playoffs. I will shut up now (on this topic anyway).

Whoops, you're right. I looked a bit too quickly.

The problem is that my point still stands even though I'm off by half... unless you consider *holding* him to a point per game at evens some sort of special accomplishment.

Unless, I got a case of amnesia and don't know about, I don't recall writing anything in CAPS. I have only made 10 or so comments in total, and I am certain none were in CAPS or disrespectful.

If you, or who ever else might have these messages, could please find the time to forward them to my e-mail, I would like to see them. Maybe my account is hacked or one of my friends used my laptop while I was away. I apologize for what ever was said or if anyone was insulted but I can guarantee you it wasn't me.

I think that this is Gagner's year to turn things up a notch or two. Prior to his most recent injury he appeared to be step quicker. He was putting the puck into the corner and going after it. Trading him now would likely be unwise. Maybe re-assess at the trade deadline. By that time the coaches will have a better idea if the young guns are bringing more to the team than him. Maybe the pressure would be more on the offering GM of a contending team to make a better deal for the Oil.

Do you guys really think Gagner is that good ? You do realize your comparing him with good players and using age as the only justification. Try using skill to compare them. Or just use age and forget about that fact the other players can skate, shoot and win draws a rate Gagner hasn't seen. This is why people claim Oiler fans over hype there prospects , rookies and players.

Kind of missing the point. Arch originally implied that we are not deep at centre prospects and I begged to differ. Mentioning Pitlick and the "3rdies"

cheers.

And I still contend we are not deep at centre prospects. All the best ones are graduated to the NHL (at least for opening day).

What we have left is an AHL rookie who is coming off of a middling WHL season, a skilled player whose heart has been questioned and who has some unexplained contract questions, and a WHL 2nd liner needing shoulder surgery just months after being drafted.

You need to do some serious convincing to argue that the Oilers have more depth at C than what is currently on the NHL roster.

OB1
You are making my point. If the chances are 10 - 15 % for a 3rd rounder, what are they for a 4th rounder?, which Horcoff and Belanger both were. The point I am making is do not discount them out of hand because they are 3rd rounders. As I said initially (and I will slow down this time for your benefit) T-h-e-y a-r-e f-a-r f-r-o-m l-o-c-k-s. But obviously neither were Horc and Belanger when they were 18 and 19 years old and based solely on draft position could turn out better than either one. I only make this point as Arch indicated they were late round picks 9and really third round is not all that late.

Just off the top of my head 4th rounders have a 5% - 10% chance.... however just because we have two that beat the odds doesn't mean a couple 3rd rounders have a superior chance of making it.

I won the lottery the other day. My next move was to use those lottery winnings to buy 50/50 tickets at Eskimo games because I had a better shot of winning. Because I won the lottery at lower odds it was assured that I would win multiple times at games with better odds.

It is not what Gagner is, it is what he COULD be. Certainly it is not likely (some would say impossible) he will ever become what the Sedins or a Datysuk currently are. However, the kid (and he still is a kid) has a great pedigree and has showed flashes of brilliance at times. And despite his shortcomings (poor on face offs, not great size, injuries) he has what is potentially the most dangerous quality (to a GM anyway) .... potential. Those of us old enough remember the Oilers releasing Ray Whitney or the Flames trading a Martin St. Louis, both at the "washed up" age of 25 years old. But there are also tons of highly rated juniors who had decent careers but never quite broke out as stars (Jeff Friesen, Pat Falloon, David Legwand, JP Dumont and countless others). Where Gagner (Gagne for you Flames fans, Canucks fans and trout) fits in ..... well that is the rub, isn't it?

I won the lottery the other day. My next move was to use those lottery winnings to buy 50/50 tickets at Eskimo games because I had a better shot of winning. Because I won the lottery at lower odds it was assured that I would win multiple times at games with better odds.

That made perfect sense right?

I've been told it does.

Also, I think people are confusing having centers in the system with beeing deep at center. If people think we are deep at center through the orginization I'd say it's safe to say those people should think that close to every team in the league is deep at center.

i'm not advocating trading gagner, necessarily. what do you suggest we do to fill the holes in defence? are those prospects we have enough? what would you examine as possible to make the team better other than never trading anyone that is young for fear of potential going with.

1) The Oilers are in a bind with Hemsky. The season is about to start, he's a UFA on July 1st, and there hasnt been a word said about them negotiating a contract. It seems like a better than 75% chance that he's going to be traded before the deadline. There's 1 route to get a Dman.

2) The Oilers have much more depth on the wing than they do at any other position. Omark and Paajarvi are playing on the 3rd line right now. I would imagine that one of them could fetch a defenseman. Paajarvi nets a higher end one than Omark but Omark is older and easier for the Oilers to part with emotionally. There is still Hartikainen waiting in OKC and Petrell is warming a seat for Eager before he goes back to Oklahoma too.

Honestly, I think the best bet is a package of Hemsky and prospects for an established defenseman.*

*I am a big Hemsky fan, just reading the tea-leaves with his contract and the need to move guys before they become UFAs

i'm not advocating trading gagner, necessarily. what do you suggest we do to fill the holes in defence? are those prospects we have enough? what would you examine as possible to make the team better other than never trading anyone that is young for fear of potential going with.

Trade picks/prospects + sign free agents.

If a big fish hits the market (Weber/Suter/Burns from this past summer) then proven NHL'ers come into play

Good idea. We can keep replacing veterans for prospects forever and keep the rebuild going for 20 more years.

We have done it your way the last 20 yrs, haven't you had enough of this bullship already? Has there ever been a darker period in Oiler history than the last 20? Yeah, good luck with that then.

The problem is, we keep hanging onto these support players (10 83 89) who've been cast as leaders here. Frack them all, get'em outta here, watch the few first and second yr NHL'ers make them all expendable. It's already a bloody farce that these guys are actually showing these new kids how it's done.

We have done it your way the last 20 yrs, haven't you had enough of this bullship already? Has there ever been a darker period in Oiler history than the last 20? Yeah, good luck with that then.

The problem is, we keep hanging onto these support players (10 83 89) who've been cast as leaders here. Frack them all, get'em outta here, watch the few first and second yr NHL'ers make them all expendable. It's already a bloody farce that these guys are actually showing these new kids how it's done.

??

What we've been doing the last 20 years is actually what YOU are suggesting.

We have in my opinion 5 guys on the big club that can play in the NHL. RNH is got 1C Gags 2C Horc 3C Belanger 4C that is set for years. Lander is knocking on the door and the youngersters mentioned will be looking at the 2-3 C positions soon plus we have guys like Chris Vande Velde, Milan Kytnar and Ryan O'Marra that may well turn into uselful 4Cs.

Is that not depth? I'm not saying trade any of them untill the logjam completes and guys push others out. But it looks very bright at C for the Oil.