Questions on companions and TDE comparisons

September 25th, 2011, 09:35

Greetings Drakensang players,

After finally picking up this game on ebay, I've just started to get into it over the weekend. I rather enjoyed the wholesome appeal of the original game and spent some very pleasant long hours with it.

However, so far, River of Time hasn't quite given me that same feeling. I'm trying to identify why this is the case. Perhaps I'm expecting too much of it or analysing my experiences from the first game too much. Admittedly I'm only level 4! In any case, I hope it opens up more to the player and that more companions become available. Whilst you couldn't fast travel or return to places in the first game, the areas were generally very large and quite explorable with rewards for that exploration.

A couple of things I've really liked so far:

- The more varied and thoughtful encounter design (I really liked the battle in the tollgate courtyard that required some blockading of entrances, tactical movements and thinking outside of the regular.)
- The focus of the story that was seemingly based upon my class choice. (Origins like in a way…)
- The encounter with the Trolls at the bridge east of Nadoret. At level 1, this really did feel intimidating and gave me a "must come back later" feeling.
- Fast travel has been welcome, though the first couple of areas haven't felt as open/explorable as the demo did in the first game.

Since I played a melee oriented character in the first game, I decided for this game that I would try out a Battlemage/Cleric hybrid kind of build. After playing for a few hours, I have a couple of questions:

(A) Are there more companions to meet in the game?
In Drakensang, you could eventually enlist the services of at least ten NPC's, making party configuration experiments very fun and highly enjoyable. It was one of the quasi-Baldur's Gate aspects that I really liked about the first game.
So far, I've only got access to Jaakon (If he says "Don't do that" again, I'm going to fireball his annoying goatee off) Forgrimm (who I really like from the first game) and Cano (a weaker, more foppish Dranor/Gladys replacement).

Oh and I miss Gwendela.

(B) My general impression from reviews is that there is a tendency to prefer The River of Time to the original game. I'd like to hear some Watchers/Drakensang fan' opinions on which they preferred and why (without spoilers naturally)…

(C) I'm looking for a list of the english voice cast from River of Time. Did John Taylor also voice Forgrimm in River of Time in the English version? For some reason, he sounds different…could be just me though.

That'll do for now. I'll hopefully add some more thoughts as my game progresses.
Cheers

Edit: Just a gentle warning for first time players who are reading: Some spoilers may follow as I reveal events during my game.

Well, in Drakensang you can have only up to 3 (or 4 ?) party members at the same time in your group. The rest waits for you where they were going to after you have dismissed them.

I assume that you aren't very far into the game, so I fear that everything I write might become a spoiler …

- The focus of the story that was seemingly based upon my class choice. (Origins like in a way…)

Yes, but the main story is the same for every character.

You're seemingly in the very first stages of the game. Everything opens up as you proceed with the story.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
I'd like to hear some Watchers/Drakensang fan' opinions on which they preferred and why (without spoilers naturally)

I prefer TRoT over the original by a landslide and consider it to be a pretty much a gold standard for how to make a sequel in terms of addressing flaws of its predecessor.

Compared to the first game, imo TRoT has better pacing, better support for the character system (social skills, crafting), better encounter design including boss fights, better itemization (which also ties to the usefulness of crafting), better puzzle aspect, better quest design - more C&C (mostly minor stuff, but still) and more quests with multiple solutions (including the troll scenario, btw), better and more unique story (for once it΄s not "epic"), better characters, well, better everything, really .
I also like how it handles openendedness/nonlinearity more - you can revisit already visited areas whenever you want and based on your progress through the main quest sometimes new content pop ups (in the original only the main town had this characteristic).
And there΄s a lot less combat filler (with the exception of one dungeon), which is a huge plus.

Just about the only minus compared to the original is, as you already suspected, its limited party customization, since besides the one either/or character, there are only three other joinables. I thought it fit well with the nature of the game΄s main story (which is rather tailored to these three chars and is not of "epic" scale), but 1 or 2 more would certainly not hurt.

I΄m not saying TRoT is without flaws, but I really enjoyed it a lot from start to finish, whereas I΄ve found the first game to be often irritating or boring and overall an unremarkable experience.

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
- The encounter with the Trolls at the bridge east of Nadoret. At level 1, this really did feel intimidating and gave me a "must come back later" feeling.

Do so. And put a few points into social skills if you want a non-violent solution to this.

Since I played a melee oriented character in the first game, I decided for this game that I would try out a Battlemage/Cleric hybrid kind of build.

There is a flaw in your thinking : There just don't exist "clerics" in the sense of (A)D&D in Aventuria. The rules system just doesn't support that.

There are Consecrated Ones (also called "Deonts", which is not the right word in my opinion) who are … well, can become priests, but not necessarily. The God or Goddess decides.

You can be a Consecrated One and still pursue profane things, but you'll *always* be bound to "your" God or Goddess - and there'll be punishment if you cross certain lines, I think ("Mark of the Sinner"). Especially if you chose to collaborate with demons.

For example, you can be following the path of Phex, be a Consecrated One, and still be a merchant.

Or follow the path of Rondra, and still be a warrior. Rondra, for example, demands following some rules, though. No backstabbing ! for example. Honesty and only face-to-face combat !

The case for the other Gods and Goddesses are sometimes much more complicated … Rahja, for example, the Goddess of love, inebritation wine etc. …

Or Boron, God of Death and Sleep - who is followed by people after eithr the Al'Anfa Rites (which come from Al'Anfa, the great capital of the south, not very well looked upon by people from other aventurian realms) and the Punin Rites (after the town of Punin, another capital within Aventuria). Both parties (read : Members of both rites) don't like one anoher. If you want to see how, then listen to the talk at the tavern outside of Nadoret.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

I guess as far as my character build is concerned Alrik, the "cleric" idea was a concept I was using very loosely. Perhaps Battlemage/Healer would have been more accurate, since I simply meant that I was giving my character alchemy/healing oriented talents as well as the general focus on combat spells.

I might come back and read the threads you linked to after my first playthrough and think some more on it - but as to the precise nature of my character's beliefs, they are still in development. I still have much to learn about Drakensang's lore.

I'm currently back in Nadoret at level 5, exploring and tying up some loose ends (doing some more arena fights, revisiting my master) before heading off to try to heal Ardo, after which I think a visit to an Elven Village is next up.. Thus, yes, I'm still very early on in my game.

An odd question: Is it possible to cleanse the dark forest of its population of gray wolves? I keep wanting to fully explore that area of the map, but are overrun by gray wolves and other creatures, including wild boars. I feel as if I'm grinding a little when there and there's a sense of respawn, but it's not totally unpleasant. There's a nice sense of mystery about the area too…

You make a good strong case in favour of The River of Time, DeepO, it'll be interesting to see how much I agree with you as the game unravels. I must say again though, that having the option to make a variable party with a range of dynamics and banter, was one of my primary joys with the first game. Perhaps in this case though, less means more in terms of NPC development and depth similar to the way BG2 did it. We'll see!

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
An odd question: Is it possible to cleanse the dark forest of its population of gray wolves? I keep wanting to fully explore that area of the map, but are overrun by gray wolves and other creatures, including wild boars. I feel as if I'm grinding a little when there and there's a sense of respawn, but it's not totally unpleasant. There's a nice sense of mystery about the area too

The respawn of the wolves, boars and bears is infinite until you reach a certain point in the story (very late in the game). I would not recommend to grind too much XP in the dark forest or you will level up too fast and not gain any XP in other areas from creatures that you should be getting XP from because you were expected to be at a lower level. Once you are a certain level (or levels rather) above other creatures you stop earning XP for kills so if you do not want the game to become unrewarding and overly boring then you should avoid grinding XP.

Originally Posted by Moriendor
The respawn of the wolves, boars and bears is infinite until you reach a certain point in the story (very late in the game).

At that point, make sure to search through this wood for crates and treasure chests - there are a few, which contain a few good things, if I remember correctly.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Another cold drizzly friday night - sounds like a good time to get some more quality River of Time gaming hours in!

I've made some steady progress this week. I polished off the last of the Hammersberg quests last night, which also included the highly enjoyable encounter/sidequest with the spectacular Water Dragon in its own demesne.
This fight was surprisingly less stressful than the drawn out battle with Zant, but that's more a tribute to the party's progress (all about level 10 now) than anything else.

Basically the improvements that DeepO mentioned in his post can be underscored because the game has certainly picked up immensely. The Bosparanian ruins was an excellently designed dungeon from start to finish (I dig the puzzles!) and was a real treat to play. I only wish the Two Worlds 2 designers would take note of how dungeons can be designed right here.

The first part of the dwarven delvings sidequest was also very entertaining. (The game with Bossnickel!) I'll be doing the second part of that quest very soon, before leaving Hammersberg and heading back to see if more of the Hunting Ground quests have become available. I'd just sent workers to clear a tree off the bridge. The arduous fights with the ogres and orcs alll through this section was really fun as well. I had to resort to kiting a couple of times with my two mages to get through.

A couple of questions:

1. I'm interested in hearing about possible differences in the characterisations of the NPCs from the English as compared to the original German. Jaakon's character for instance. He often displays a kind of high minded petulance and irritability with hints of nobility and aristocracy. I'm also thinking he has a hidden agenda, but I could be wrong there. How would the German speakers at the 'Watch describe him?

2. So far I've run into Auralia (Nadoret - Market) Gwendala (Elven Tree - she didn't approve of my Forgrimm sponsored method of piracy elimination much hehe) And Forgrimm and Gladys of course from the brilliant death screens.
Do other NPCs from the first game make an appearance? (Dranor, Jost, Ancoron, Traldar, Nasreddin and Rhulana?)

3. Could someone put a percentage on how far I have remaining in the main game?

4. What's the general recommended level for starting Phileasson's Secret?

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Jaakon's character for instance. He often displays a kind of high minded petulance and irritability with hints of nobility and aristocracy. I'm also thinking he has a hidden agenda, but I could be wrong there. How would the German speakers at the 'Watch describe him?

Just ask him ! Do a right-click on him and ask him !

Do other NPCs from the first game make an appearance? (Dranor, Jost, Ancoron, Traldar, Nasreddin and Rhulana?)

Sorry, but no. The game is set too many years before the main game, I guess.

There is only one NPC you'll meet again - and that is at the "customs fortress", as I call it … After you've tidied it up, of course.

Spoiler

Edit : If you have the newest version of Drakensang 1, then you'll be able to meet the ship and its crew in Drakensang 1 again …

And if you were in Hammerberg : That Dwarven Prince, too …

Edit : There is one thing a German community member has found out :

In Drakensang 1 there is the very first cutscene of when the oracle speaks.
Within the crowd there is one fighter from the Arena …

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Hmm, so you can do an install with German voice overs and English subtitles? I wish more games would give that option that since the English voice acting we get from the Euro-RPGs often leaves much to be desired.

Well, keep in mind that this is a fan-made approach. At least for the German game I can say that it doesn't come with both languages. I assume that you'll have to buy *both* versions before applying this.

But indeed : It is rare nowadays that games ship with several languages right from the beginning …

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Well, keep in mind that this is a fan-made approach. At least for the German game I can say that it doesn't come with both languages. I assume that you'll have to buy *both* versions before applying this.

But indeed : It is rare nowadays that games ship with several languages right from the beginning

Well that's disappointing if you have to buy both. I know the Witcher 2 has additional language packs you can download so if you, say, want to run it in Polish dialog with subtitles you can.

I suppose game publishers and designers don't realize that some people might want to do this, but it would be nice to have audio for different languages, especially the original language as an optional download.

Yes, I know it. I've had times when I wanted another language as well.
For example I own the English-language version of Beyond Divinity only - until it came with a gaming magazine, that is - and I've never played the German-language version because of this.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

The Witcher Enhanced Edition also has a fantastic range of voice acting and subtitle options. I've never tried it in Polish with English subtitles, which would be a logical choice. Maybe before I finally do play the sequel.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Just ask him ! Do a right-click on him and ask him !

I was just interested in hearing someone's characterisation that had only heard Jaakon's German voice acting, as I'd wondered how similar or different he was to the impression given in English. That's all.

In any case, I'm back in Nadoret again now after finishing off the Dwarven Delvings quest and some odds and ends at the Tollgate. Just doing some well overdue shopping and crafting. I've got some 800 ducats to spend on upgrading equipment, skills and spells which is always a nice feeling.

A couple of screenshots for fun

September 30th, 2011, 21:51

Just thought I'd test/post a screenshot of my crew smiling for the camera (except only Forgrimm looked directly at it..) Also note my battlemage's rather deplorable taste in fashion and penchant for wearing effeminate looking attire. (right)
Jaakon meanwhile, prefers leather and as for Ardo, he's probably the straightest of the lot (and is visibly unimpressed with having stop and have his picture taken)

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
I was just interested in hearing someone's characterisation that had only heard Jaakon's German voice acting, as I'd wondered how similar or different he was to the impression given in English. That's all.

Well, in my opinion, his voice-acting was imho well fitting to his "life story". It didn't sound unbelivable.

The Kampfmagie-Seminar of Andergast is I think the only Magic teaching academy entirely focused on combat magic. As such, I think it is at least a Grey academy, if not even a Black one.

The members of this academy are - in Aventuria - the only ones who are regularly allowed to wear the grey cap of the combat magicians. It's like … some kind of brand sign for them. No other magicians are allowed (at least in theory) to wear them.

Andergast and Nostria are two small kingdoms not too far away fom both the Orcs and the Thorwalians (see the Northland Trilogy for that). Sometimes they are invaded by both, but thanks to a few treatises and such, they can live in relatively peace.

Both kingdoms are very traditional. *How* much traditional and conservative can be seen if you ask Jost of Drakensang 1 about his story.

Both Nostria and Andergast also has very strong ties to fairy realms hidden deeply within the surrounding forests. I mean with this that the inhabitants of both countries believe in them quite strongly, as far as I know, and see them as another force that just lives on there. Better not to disturb them, but if they help you, you are really blessed !

Both kingdoms are in kind of an "eternal war" with one another, although it is not really a full-fledged war, but rather some … fights here and there, accusing one another of bad deeds, swearing to let them pay for it, getting together in small battles again, going back home again etc. … I don't know how to describe it, but it is like two grumpy, unfriendly neighbours always bickering over one another.

Both Nostria and Andergast have a tradition in pen & paper TDE playing as so vcalled "beginners' regions". They are are part of what is still considered the "fairy-tale aspect of Aventuria".

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Just thought I'd test/post a screenshot of my crew smiling for the camera (except only Forgrimm looked directly at it..)

A very nice picture !

I don't remember some of this armor … Hardly ever bought some because it is always so much expensive … The red cloth seems to be from the Elves, no ?

There is a single … "set" of armor throughout the whole game, and that is this "Storm Guardians" elven "set". It consists of reddish clothes - and unfortunately the boots (?) can only be obtained by answering a question of the Bisnickel WRONG - he then teleports you (I have read) into a kind of cell, wherein there stands a chests which contains them. So far the community has found no other way to gain them.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

You're correct about the red clothing that my mage wears, Alrik. It's of elven make - the Storm Sentinel Robes. It's probably the best protection that I've found so far for a mage. Hopefully I can find something suitable to match/accompany it also. The soldier's boots just don't look right!

I didn't know about that Bosnickel story you mention. I managed to answer all of his questions correct the first time, using both hints as provided though!

One quest I didn't do correctly however, was for the Archmage Rakorium. It's strange though, as it hasn't come up as "failed" in the quest journal.
It involves his apprentice, Nottel. I completed the ritual, but got the item order wrong. It didn't seem too impactful on my game, so I didn't reload. Perhaps I should have?

The armour that Forgrimm wears is the dwarven plate and was very expensive (500 odd ducats). I'm kind of regretting not taking haggling as a skill now to lower the costs a little!

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
I didn't know about that Bosnickel story you mention. I managed to answer all of his questions correct the first time, using both hints as provided though!

You can only get the boots if you answer ONE of his questions WRONG ! - At least that's what I've read about it. And I don't remember anymore which one (which question) it was …

Regarding the apprentice … You can of course reload the game if you don't get the desired result …

Spoiler

The "good" ending of this quest would be that the apprentice is free again.
The "middle" or "neutral" quest ending is when … all three are in ONE body …
And then there is the bad ending as well …

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

… Was just reminded by the background book that Fayris - an half-elf - is actually 89 years old …

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)