The involved houses on Ocean, Fulton and Gotham Walk are completely burned to the ground in Breezy Point. FDNY command at the scene is reporting heavy fire on two of the three fronts they've been able to attack the fire on.

keytronic:I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators.

For the most part its just immature bravado. A particularly desperate response in the face of fear. They will say to themselves that they are "just trolling" but its really just whistling past the grave yard.

Somacandra:BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.

Curious...

with the impending storm coming (and storm surge) could they not be moved to another facility ahead of time that was less likely to go on the blink?

keytronic:I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators. This is one of the worst storms/floods in NY history, and people are going apeshiat because some generators are failing?

The hospital is being evacuated right now, tonight. There may be life lost, but New York is one of the most densely populated cities in the world, casualties are inevitable.

When hospitals in New York start euthanizing patients because there is no one to help evacuate them, then I'll get worried.

If you came to that opinion from this thread, please read backwards.... pretty much one person did that and a whole lot of people, me included (a lot) took the bait and then the thread went sideways because (I need to be careful here so I don't get deleted) that guy was very skilled in the art of seeming like a completely ignorant dick.

cuzsis:Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.

Curious...

with the impending storm coming (and storm surge) could they not be moved to another facility ahead of time that was less likely to go on the blink?

/not snarking

When moving a patient that may die just from the transport you dont do it unless you know for sure you have to.

The problem isn't the generators. It's the fuel supply. Now if you can convince NYC that a few thousand gallons of diesel in an enclosed space inside a hospital building isn't a major fire hazard, well, go you.

The problem isn't the generators. It's the fuel supply. Now if you can convince NYC that a few thousand gallons of diesel in an enclosed space inside a hospital building isn't a major fire hazard, well, go you.

Smeggy Smurf:Seige101: Smeggy Smurf: Typically backup generators fail when the fuel supply is disrupted. Building codes don't allow for the diesel to be stored inside the building without extraordinary measure being taken. Those measures are always cost prohibitive. So the fuel will most likely be in some sort of underground cistern. The likely source of the power failure is the pumps for the generators have been damaged.

There really is no good solution to the problem with current technology. I wish there was but that's not in the foreseeable future.

/architect

How about a propane or natural gas generator?

Neither are stable for long term storage and are highly reactive. You can cause an explosion with either of those fuels with a simple industrial accident. Diesel on the other hand is difficult to ignite in such a manner.

If you're really interested in fuels storage I'd recommend you spend some time researching aviation fuel farms. Most of what I deal with are 500 gallon storage tanks for grocery stores.

Curious to know where you work... 'cause I'm thinking we share a common circle.

Curious... but not expecting you to tell me. 'Cause... of course... I wouldn't tell either.

cefm:This is what happens when you ask someone to install a backup generator instead of asking someone to plan for the appropriate way to deal with likely scenarios that would cause an extended power outage.

The hospital just said "backup generator and fuel? Got 'em!" and thought they were done. What they should have done is asked themselves what scenarios are most likely to cause major power outages, and pretty high up the list would be tropical storm flooding. At that point they might have realized that having the diesel tank below ground level in the area that would be flooded MIGHT not be the best idea.

Also, unless you regularly test generators at full load (actually turn them on and run the building on them) then you might as well not have one at all because it will probably break.

It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.

No_Good_Name:quickdraw: No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?

Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.

No, but I work in a hospital that has yet to fully recover from Ike. That was five years ago, there has been a chance for others to learn from our mistakes.

It's not the same situation at all. Even though its a hospital in a hurricane - they really are completely different. The main problem with NOLA was the delay. It was very odd. Fark was one of the very few places you could get any news about NOLA at all - there was this bizarre disconnect. I remember reading the stuff on fark and being absolutely horrified. A co-worker asked me what was wrong and she didn't believe me because the regular news outlets werent covering it. It took 2 full days for the media to catch up to reality.

During those 2 days a lot of very bad things happened. This is another situation entirely. They did the best they could but you cant keep fuel containers inside a building (fire safety) and you certainly dont want to move them into the open just before a hurricane comes through.

No_Good_Name:It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.

that it is. Afterwards, you can see the little things that can be improved. Small changes... and each one is a dagger. It's trial and error. You don't know what can go wrong until it does.

quickdraw:No_Good_Name: quickdraw: No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?

Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.

No, but I work in a hospital that has yet to fully recover from Ike. That was five years ago, there has been a chance for others to learn from our mistakes.

It's not the same situation at all. Even though its a hospital in a hurricane - they really are completely different. The main problem with NOLA was the delay. It was very odd. Fark was one of the very few places you could get any news about NOLA at all - there was this bizarre disconnect. I remember reading the stuff on fark and being absolutely horrified. A co-worker asked me what was wrong and she didn't believe me because the regular news outlets werent covering it. It took 2 full days for the media to catch up to reality.

During those 2 days a lot of very bad things happened. This is another situation entirely. They did the best they could but you cant keep fuel containers inside a building (fire safety) and you certainly dont want to move them into the open just before a hurricane comes through.

I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

No_Good_Name:It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.

I hear ya. It is very distressing. I too wish there was more I could do.

No_Good_Name:I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.

No_Good_Name:It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.

I felt that way during Katrina and I was 2000 miles away. Having just ridden out this storm here in Philly, I'd say that for the most part, everyone on the East Coast prepped well for it and no one was caught by surprise. The few major problems -fuel getting fouled, the fire in Queens- are things no one ever could have predicted. The hospital was at least prepared and it sounds like the move went without problem.

We're never going to have natural disaster where nothing goes wrong, but the better prepared we are, the better things go, even if it means (as I did) that you prepare for basically nothing.

/spent $2.00 on ice and $10.00 on batteries//because I'm generally stocked up on food in case of emergency anyway///and we've had some BAD winter storms in the last couple years.

quickdraw:No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.

Dumb of me, I agree. It probably would have been worse without what they learned from Katrina. I admit to my frustration at any loss of life that is happening.

Look, if you're in another part of the country there's no point in driving yourself into an angst frenzy about it right now. There is nothing you can do except wallow in guilt to make yourself feel better. Maybe tomorrow they can use some donations. Also no point in second guessing what they could have done better, if anything. What's done is done.