I would rather play a hooking player than you. At least all they are trying to do is to win a tennis match...

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I don't know how you extrapolate that my standing up to a blatant cheater means I'm bitter or a bad person and that you prefer to play with cheaters then me--you have some weird stuff going on in your kielbsa yourself. Here's a situation from just yesterday's match. I hit a serve ace that hits two lines. The guy, you say you would love to play more then me, (and I granted you your wish), calls it out. I've played with him on numerous occasions at the club and knows he makes bad calls--always in his favor--NEVER giving any doubt to his opponents. I know this from having played with him and against him. His partner, who I know to be fair, overrules him saying he saw it hit the line. My partner agrees. His partner gives me two. The perp says nothing, no apology, no nothing. In his mind he thinks he's the big man on campus, he's a bully, and should get everything his way even if all three other people on the court saw things differently--that doesn't matter to him--he has no shame. How does that make me bitter and a bad person in your mind?

So I extrapolate, you are a moral relativist, your reaction would be "Just let go of it, maybe he had a bad child-hood, try to understand him." Sounds like a good rationalization to not step up to the plate and challenge the bully or the egomaniac--in other words be a coward.

And this guy is not even a blatant cheater like the OP was talking about-- just your run of the mill minor league everyday cheater. So once again I ask you, how does my having the balls to challenge a bad call mean that I'M the bad person in your eyes and you prefer to play with the cheater--or let's just say someone with less then good vision?

How old are you, just curious? Your name is game-BOY so I'm assuming you're a junior, just wondering what they're teaching in schools today?

Interesting update. Two or so years ago, Bad caller was kicked off her USTA team because no one on the team would play with her because her calls were so embarrassing. She is obviously still finding teams to play on, but it's evident she has a pretty solid reputation as a cheater.

Interesting update. Two or so years ago, Bad caller was kicked off her USTA team because no one on the team would play with her because her calls were so embarrassing. She is obviously still finding teams to play on, but it's evident she has a pretty solid reputation as a cheater.

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Nice job USTA of not policing your USTA League system, probably would't want to offend the perp by not taking her money. Maybe when she runs out of desperate teams needing to fill out their rosters, she'll form her own team and rise up the ranks of the league bureaucracy.

Nice job USTA of not policing your USTA League system, probably would't want to offend the perp by not taking her money. Maybe when she runs out of desperate teams needing to fill out their rosters, she'll form her own team and rise up the ranks of the league bureaucracy.

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Remember, win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat, cheat, cheat!

I don't know how you extrapolate that my standing up to a blatant cheater means I'm bitter or a bad person and that you prefer to play with cheaters then me--you have some weird stuff going on in your kielbsa yourself. Here's a situation from just yesterday's match. I hit a serve ace that hits two lines. The guy, you say you would love to play more then me, (and I granted you your wish), calls it out. I've played with him on numerous occasions at the club and knows he makes bad calls--always in his favor--NEVER giving any doubt to his opponents. I know this from having played with him and against him. His partner, who I know to be fair, overrules him saying he saw it hit the line. My partner agrees. His partner gives me two. The perp says nothing, no apology, no nothing. In his mind he thinks he's the big man on campus, he's a bully, and should get everything his way even if all three other people on the court saw things differently--that doesn't matter to him--he has no shame. How does that make me bitter and a bad person in your mind?

So I extrapolate, you are a moral relativist, your reaction would be "Just let go of it, maybe he had a bad child-hood, try to understand him." Sounds like a good rationalization to not step up to the plate and challenge the bully or the egomaniac--in other words be a coward.

And this guy is not even a blatant cheater like the OP was talking about-- just your run of the mill minor league everyday cheater. So once again I ask you, how does my having the balls to challenge a bad call mean that I'M the bad person in your eyes and you prefer to play with the cheater--or let's just say someone with less then good vision?

How old are you, just curious? Your name is game-BOY so I'm assuming you're a junior, just wondering what they're teaching in schools today?

The real question is why do you continue to "play with him on numerous occasions at the club" when you "know he makes bad calls" on purpose?

Treat the cheater like the pariah he is - ignore him and don't play tennis with him.

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I'm liberal, I'll play with anyone who calls me, treat it as practice. I educate him like yesterday and observe if there's any "human" evolution occurring. He's pretty much the norm at club/rec level, combinations of poor eyesight, wishful thinking, merlot or chardonay the night before. If you're too picky there's not gonna' be much out there to practice with. For real tennis, I sign up for a Senior Age Group tournament, just played three of them.

Anti-social psychopathic cheaters like the OP was talking about are fairly rare, they're the ones you have to cheat-back--that they understand. They count on opponent's being timid and not calling them on it. I think they relish the control they feel when opponents go along with their agenda--like politicians and all other egomaniacs.

Like I said before. I would rather play a cheater than a guy constantly looking for trouble.

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Not at all boy, I love it when tennis is played properly, according to the code, the rules and the unwritten rules--but I don't shy away from confrontation if it's no longer tennis--maybe that's you. You have NO clue about me, please keep being ego fodder for the cheaters.

You seem to know a lot about people after reading a couple of paragraphs,. You'd make a good instant shrink, hang up a shingle like Lucy--"Psychiatric Advice 5 cents".

This cheater in question seems much more worse than the "norm at club/rec level". You said (in your own words) that the cheater:

* "knows he makes bad calls--always in his favor--NEVER giving any doubt to his opponents."

* "never says nothing, no apology, no nothing. In his mind he thinks he's the big man on campus, he's a bully, and should get everything his way even if all three other people on the court saw things differently--that doesn't matter to him--he has no shame."

How does that seem like the "norm at club/rec level" to you? Your continuing to play tennis with a cheater of this magnitude only serves to legitimize and perpetuate his cheating ways.

That's why I think the best course of action is NOT to confront such blatant cheaters but to ostracize them and treat them like the pariahs that they are.

Unlike golf, tennis requires opponents to play at its most effective levels. When cheaters find that they can no longer get anyone to join them for a match, then they MAY start to change their ways.

I'm liberal, I'll play with anyone who calls me, treat it as practice. I educate him like yesterday and observe if there's any "human" evolution occurring. He's pretty much the norm at club/rec level, combinations of poor eyesight, wishful thinking, merlot or chardonay the night before. If you're too picky there's not gonna' be much out there to practice with. For real tennis, I sign up for a Senior Age Group tournament, just played three of them.

Anti-social psychopathic cheaters like the OP was talking about are fairly rare, they're the ones you have to cheat-back--that they understand. They count on opponent's being timid and not calling them on it. I think they relish the control they feel when opponents go along with their agenda--like politicians and all other egomaniacs.

That's why I think the best course of action is NOT to confront such blatant cheaters but to ostracize them and treat them like the pariahs that they are.

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Yes, and I really don't know why more people don't do this. This is what I believe is the key difference between when I used to play years ago and now. For some reason people have become more tolerant of this behavior.

I am out playing tennis to enjoy my time and can't stand when people cheat, but I think I might dislike the people who play games or are confrontational about the same. I might even like the latter less as then it adds real stress to your day. I won't play with either unless forced.

The truth NEVER hurts, your enemy who tells you the truth is a better friend then your friend who lies to you. (Jeez, I can't believe I'm responding to this a "game boy".) A real cheater would not bother trying to educate anyone here he would try to keep you as dumb as possible for future fun and profit. He would be busy 24/7 cheating in a every aspect of his life to make an easy living off the rubes.

I don't know how you extrapolate that my standing up to a blatant cheater means I'm bitter or a bad person and that you prefer to play with cheaters then me--you have some weird stuff going on in your kielbsa yourself. Here's a situation from just yesterday's match. I hit a serve ace that hits two lines. The guy, you say you would love to play more then me, (and I granted you your wish), calls it out. I've played with him on numerous occasions at the club and knows he makes bad calls--always in his favor--NEVER giving any doubt to his opponents. I know this from having played with him and against him. His partner, who I know to be fair, overrules him saying he saw it hit the line. My partner agrees. His partner gives me two. The perp says nothing, no apology, no nothing. In his mind he thinks he's the big man on campus, he's a bully, and should get everything his way even if all three other people on the court saw things differently--that doesn't matter to him--he has no shame. How does that make me bitter and a bad person in your mind?

So I extrapolate, you are a moral relativist, your reaction would be "Just let go of it, maybe he had a bad child-hood, try to understand him." Sounds like a good rationalization to not step up to the plate and challenge the bully or the egomaniac--in other words be a coward.

And this guy is not even a blatant cheater like the OP was talking about-- just your run of the mill minor league everyday cheater. So once again I ask you, how does my having the balls to challenge a bad call mean that I'M the bad person in your eyes and you prefer to play with the cheater--or let's just say someone with less then good vision?

How old are you, just curious? Your name is game-BOY so I'm assuming you're a junior, just wondering what they're teaching in schools today?

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Hate to tell you, but there is no two. They made a bad call on a serve and his partner corrected the call. That's your point right there. He cheated you again by forcing you to play a let.

I find sometimes funny remarks makes is a little easier in confronting cheaters. If the line calls are pretty bad and I have asked if they are sure repeatedly, I will call one out and say, oh wait sorry that was in I just couldn't get to it and laugh. I have even on the change over said, my bad with that call just wanted it to be out and smile.

Some people cheat, not just to win, but to get into your head. I don't generally game people, but if they start it why not give it back?

You can ask the bad caller "are you sure?"
You can ask the bad caller's partner "how did you see it?"
If bad caller is not sure, or bad caller's partner saw it in, then the point is yours.
Otherwise, you have to accept it, as frustrating as that might be.

Your only other recourse in unofficiated USTA league matches is to ask your captain to appoint a linesperson for the remainder of the match. The linesperson can be anyone who is there, but needs to be agreed to by both captains.

I have seen a lineperson requested on a couple of occassions but still it is quite rare. Things have to be pretty bad for that to happen.

I have a couple of comments and a question. I play doubles, and the bad calls that really annoy me are the ones that are made by the opponent who is across the court from the ball, calling a down the line shot out from her vantage point near the other sideline, while her partner is lined up on the sideline with me and "doesn't see the ball because she was trying to hit it." That said, I did overrule my partner when she called a DTL out from across the court.....I know either player is allowed to make a call, but I don't call across lines (especially sidelines) unless it's obviously out.

A few years ago, in an attempt to make players more "honest," the USTA allowed players to overrule their partners and be able to play a let as long as their team had returned the ball. Sometime later, my USTA captain said the rule had been changed back and an overrule results in losing the point. We have playing that way for a while now, but I just checked The Code for something else and saw that the ability to play a let still stands. Was my captain wrong? (Yikes!)

As far as retaliation for consistently bad calls is concerned, I've considered taking a tip from baseball and calling a tight "strike zone," but I haven't actually tried it.

You may have been looking at an old version of The Code. This, from the 2013 version:

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12. Out calls reversed. A player who calls a ball out shall reverse the call if the player becomes uncertain or realizes that the ball was good. The point goes to the opponent and is not replayed. However, when a receiver reverses a fault call on a serve that hit the net, the server is entitled to two serves.

Thanks, Cindy, I knew you would know! The funny thing is that I clicked on a link to the Southern California USTA site, then searched for "The Code," and that's what popped up. There's no date on it. Relieved to know we've been doing the right thing...would hate to have given away points for nothing.