Paul. People like Mitiades, Tim, Robin and even myself can argue - one way or t'other - that we are directly affected by events associated with Brexit. You however are not. To you it's all entirely academic, whichever way it goes.

Why do you care? Surely it's no more relevant to you than what's going on in Nepal?

Londonrake wrote:Paul. People like Mitiades, Tim, Robin and even myself can argue - one way or t'other - that we are directly affected by events associated with Brexit. You however are not. To you it's all entirely academic, whichever way it goes.

Why do you care? Surely it's no more relevant to you than what's going on in Nepal?

i hold a british passport ,among others ...

this man would have to agree any deal at the WTO for the UK ...

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Britain will have free trade alright right from the start, and is likely to even have some elevated status like thesmart Swiss!

They will also have free trade with USA and Australia.

Yes, but ...

From the perspective of the EU, the treaties largely contain the same content as the EEA treaties, making Switzerland a virtual member of the EEA. Most EU law applies universally throughout the EU, the EEA and Switzerland, providing most of the conditions of the free movement of people, goods, services and capital that apply to full member states. Switzerland pays into the EU budget and extended the bilateral treaties to the new EU member states, just like full members did, although each extension requires the approval of Swiss voters in a referendum.

In other words, they are subject to most EU law and inward free movement. In other words they might just as well be members.

The EU is making it clear that it will give the UK full access to the EU market in return for free movement.

Paphitis: agreed. It is suggested that the EU is a paragon when it comes to international trade negotiations. However, the opposite is the case. Their record's dire. Witness the most recent "success", TTIP. How long have they been around the table with the Australians?

Even at this stage absolutely nothing would surprise me. Nevertheless it's difficult to envisage the UK acceptingfree movement. That would politically be a very neat trick.

I was surprised to read your earlier reference to the Australian/French submarine deal. I worked with the RAAF back in the early to mid 90's. We had the same acoustic processing systems on our maritime patrol aircraft. I got to see some of their development for the Collins class, including elements of the first fitting out in Adelaide. At the time Australia was very keen on building their own subs. I wonder what changed their minds?

They haven't changed their minds.

They are building the Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A. These are a newly Australian/French designed Submarine for Australia's needs and is based on the French Barracuda Class Nuclear Submarines.

Londonrake wrote:Paul. People like Mitiades, Tim, Robin and even myself can argue - one way or t'other - that we are directly affected by events associated with Brexit. You however are not. To you it's all entirely academic, whichever way it goes.

Why do you care? Surely it's no more relevant to you than what's going on in Nepal?

Just a minute. How come this doesn't apply to Paphitis, then? He's an Aussie of Greek heritage on the other side of the planet with no connections of any kind to the UK. The only reason he's a fan of Brexit is because he sees it as being a kind of revenge for the treatment Greece received from the EU and he isn't interested in the issue on its own merits. In my book, anybody is entitled to have an opinion about anything and argue for it, which applies to Paphitis as much as anybody else, but please be consistent.

Incidentally, I have a lot of experience with technical analysis of charts, and there is one chart pattern that you see time and time again: if the price falls through a key support point, it will almost always bounce back to that support point before continuing its downward trend. On the charts for GBP against other currencies, the price has rebounded to just such an earlier key support point that it broke through. If it now falls back and makes makes lows this would in my opinion be a very bearish sign and what was previously a support point will become a key resistance point.

Londonrake wrote:Paul. People like Mitiades, Tim, Robin and even myself can argue - one way or t'other - that we are directly affected by events associated with Brexit. You however are not. To you it's all entirely academic, whichever way it goes.

Why do you care? Surely it's no more relevant to you than what's going on in Nepal?

Just a minute. How come this doesn't apply to Paphitis, then? He's an Aussie of Greek heritage on the other side of the planet with no connections of any kind to the UK. The only reason he's a fan of Brexit is because he sees it as being a kind of revenge for the treatment Greece received from the EU and he isn't interested in the issue on its own merits. In my book, anybody is entitled to have an opinion about anything and argue for it, which applies to Paphitis as much as anybody else, but please be consistent.

That is a little unfair.

Yes I might not be a Brit but I can truthfully say that I wish Britain well. I do this because I respect this move. I am not wishing any harm on Britain. That's because I do not agree with how badly Britain has been treated and even bullied in the EU Parliament for its Euroskepticism. I find the arrogance too much.

As an EU citizen, I see an EU that is behaving increasingly arrogant and cold against other countries like Greece and Cyprus. It is an EU I can't support and as such I wish Britain well. There is no room for failure here. Despite your very biased view, you should also understand that if Britain fails there is no hope for Greece. You should look beyond what would benefit you and look at fairness, egalitarianism, and resist these technocrats and their vile rape and pillage.

I can understand you want a Federal Europe. But this is not a Federal Europe. In a Federation, the rich states support the poor states. This is what happens in America and Australia. In the EU, the rich States don't want to support the poorer states. That is not an EU you should be supporting.

The EU has no merit. I wouldn't call it revenge. It's about justice, fairness and fighting this monstrosity because of the evil it has become. This isn't a UNION!

EU citizenship is something that could be beneficial for my children. But that is no reason to support this political construct that is not interested in helping them. The EU will inevitably even destroy their identity as Greeks or Cypriots and Britain has said it is unwilling to forego its identity. I can only support that.

Londonrake wrote:Paul. People like Mitiades, Tim, Robin and even myself can argue - one way or t'other - that we are directly affected by events associated with Brexit. You however are not. To you it's all entirely academic, whichever way it goes.

Why do you care? Surely it's no more relevant to you than what's going on in Nepal?

Just a minute. How come this doesn't apply to Paphitis, then? He's an Aussie of Greek heritage on the other side of the planet with no connections of any kind to the UK. The only reason he's a fan of Brexit is because he sees it as being a kind of revenge for the treatment Greece received from the EU and he isn't interested in the issue on its own merits. In my book, anybody is entitled to have an opinion about anything and argue for it, which applies to Paphitis as much as anybody else, but please be consistent.

That is a little unfair.

Yes I might not be a Brit but I can truthfully say that I wish Britain well. I do this because I respect this move. I am not wishing any harm on Britain. That's because I do not agree with how badly Britain has been treated and even bullied in the EU Parliament for its Euroskepticism. I find the arrogance too much.

As an EU citizen, I see an EU that is behaving increasingly arrogant and cold against other countries like Greece and Cyprus. It is an EU I can't support and as such I wish Britain well. There is no room for failure here. Despite your very biased view, you should also understand that if Britain fails there is no hope for Greece. You should look beyond what would benefit you and look at fairness, egalitarianism, and resist these technocrats and their vile rape and pillage.

I can understand you want a Federal Europe. But this is not a Federal Europe. In a Federation, the rich states support the poor states. This is what happens in America and Australia. In the EU, the rich States don't want to support the poorer states. That is not an EU you should be supporting.

The EU has no merit. I wouldn't call it revenge. It's about justice, fairness and fighting this monstrosity because of the evil it has become. This isn't a UNION!

EU citizenship is something that could be beneficial for my children. But that is no reason to support this political construct that is not interested in helping them. The EU will inevitably even destroy their identity as Greeks or Cypriots and Britain has said it is unwilling to forego its identity. I can only support that.

Well said Paphitis. That is the way many of those that voted for Brexit felt and it was always the 'Federal' aspect that was of greatest importance.

We see constant reference on here to 'Trade Agreements' but do we really know what they entail? They are not just about trade, they are about ‘a new legal system, open only to foreign corporations and investors’ thus giving large multinational corporations legal powers to negate National law. I am no expert on Trade Agreements but when you look at the background they seem more likely to impoverish the signatory nations than enhance.

This was an interesting read:

Reported Death of TTIP - An Abhorrent Political Deception

(Note; CETA can be used to apply TTIP via the backdoor .... and it has already been signed by the EU Commission)

CETA contains a new legal system, open only to foreign corporations and investors. Should the British government make a decision, say, to outlaw dangerous chemicals, improve food safety or put cigarettes in plain packaging, a Canadian company can sue the British government for “unfairness”. And by unfairness this simply means they can’t make as much profit as they expected. The “trial” would be held as a special tribunal, overseen by corporate lawyers.”

Londonrake wrote:Paul. People like Mitiades, Tim, Robin and even myself can argue - one way or t'other - that we are directly affected by events associated with Brexit. You however are not. To you it's all entirely academic, whichever way it goes.

Why do you care? Surely it's no more relevant to you than what's going on in Nepal?

Just a minute. How come this doesn't apply to Paphitis, then? He's an Aussie of Greek heritage on the other side of the planet with no connections of any kind to the UK. The only reason he's a fan of Brexit is because he sees it as being a kind of revenge for the treatment Greece received from the EU and he isn't interested in the issue on its own merits. In my book, anybody is entitled to have an opinion about anything and argue for it, which applies to Paphitis as much as anybody else, but please be consistent.

That is a little unfair.

Yes I might not be a Brit but I can truthfully say that I wish Britain well. I do this because I respect this move. I am not wishing any harm on Britain. That's because I do not agree with how badly Britain has been treated and even bullied in the EU Parliament for its Euroskepticism. I find the arrogance too much.

As an EU citizen, I see an EU that is behaving increasingly arrogant and cold against other countries like Greece and Cyprus. It is an EU I can't support and as such I wish Britain well. There is no room for failure here. Despite your very biased view, you should also understand that if Britain fails there is no hope for Greece. You should look beyond what would benefit you and look at fairness, egalitarianism, and resist these technocrats and their vile rape and pillage.

I can understand you want a Federal Europe. But this is not a Federal Europe. In a Federation, the rich states support the poor states. This is what happens in America and Australia. In the EU, the rich States don't want to support the poorer states. That is not an EU you should be supporting.

The EU has no merit. I wouldn't call it revenge. It's about justice, fairness and fighting this monstrosity because of the evil it has become. This isn't a UNION!

EU citizenship is something that could be beneficial for my children. But that is no reason to support this political construct that is not interested in helping them. The EU will inevitably even destroy their identity as Greeks or Cypriots and Britain has said it is unwilling to forego its identity. I can only support that.

I think you have misunderstood me. I always welcome your input here. I am objecting to the way London Rake, rather than addressing any of the issues that Paul raises, trolls him and accuses him of being mentally ill or of having no direct involvement in the issue. Yet he does not raise the same complaints about Robin Hood (who the first accusation also applies to) or you (who the second accusation also applies to - not that it worries me because this is an open discussion forum).

I think you have misunderstood me. I always welcome your input here. I am objecting to the way London Rake, rather than addressing any of the issues that Paul raises, trolls him and accuses him of being mentally ill or of having no direct involvement in the issue. Yet he does not raise the same complaints about Robin Hood (who the first accusation also applies to) or you (who the second accusation also applies to - not that it worries me because this is an open discussion forum).

The first accusation is absolutely true, PaulZKTV is a mental case, semi-literate and proves it with every post he makes. He does not live in or have any association with Cyprus as a resident or as someone of Cypriot lineage, so that’s true as well. Incidentally, as a UK pensioner and a Cyprus permanent resident for over 20 years ...... like LR it affects me directly.

The man has no credibility as far as I am concerned and ..... as for TROLLING him ...... get real and read his posts all of which are intended to stir and raise the blood pressure of his targeted victims (Including me)

Tim Drayton wrote:And, incidentally, I see nothing in Paul's posts to suggest that he is mentally ill. I appreciate his wry humour and usually enjoy a smile at what he posts.

Then, maybe you're as barmy as he is? Wry humour?

You see him as a humorist ..... I ,and others, see him as a rather sick individual who adds nothing but unpleasant comments and utter confusion to any thread !