(26-07-2013 09:21 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: I'm not sure I specifically said he was racist. But I certainly said he was at the very least enabling racism.

In the same way that Chik-fil-a saying they did not support gay marriage wasn't them necessarily being bigots, but they provide support for them.

In the same way that people who identify as moderate christians or muslims or whatever, provide defense for the radicals and extremists.

It's being on the wrong side for different, but still wrong, reasons and lending credibility to it by association.

Then I hope it would be considered just as racist for an Indian sushi bar owner to hire nothing but Asians due to the white customers demand for authenticity!

It would be.

It also depends on who is applying and the qualifications. If no Indian had ever walked into that store or submitted an application, then it wouldn't be racist because the opportunity does not present itself.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley

(26-07-2013 09:28 AM)TheGulegon Wrote: Then I hope it would be considered just as racist for an Indian sushi bar owner to hire nothing but Asians due to the white customers demand for authenticity!

It would be.

It also depends on who is applying and the qualifications. If no Indian had ever walked into that store or submitted an application, then it wouldn't be racist because the opportunity does not present itself.

It would be.
Depending on why the Indian is hiring nothing but Asians, he may just be pragmatic. No racism needed to get people to do anything for money. Just money

You know, the thing with racism isn't a cultural thing, it's a human thing. And it actually has nothing whatsoever to do with color.

All races have been "racist" like forever. When you had a small European community, and people barely ever travelled anywhere but just stuck to tending fields and livestock, they were "racist" in the complete absence of other races. They had feuds. It's the same thing - they discriminated against people who were not in their clan.

Same thing in Africa and anywhere in the world.

THAT is the root of it all, not actually races. Regardless of race or origin or skin tone, either you belong in the "clan" or group or you don't.

Looking at it from that perspective, a much broader perspective, we have come a long way in some parts of the world. The races/clans travel now, get exposure all over, and mix and mingle and interbreed. Something that was unthinkable just 100 years ago.

It is part of evolution, races don't make much sense anymore, we all live in houses and are not exposed to the weather like we used to be. Race has a lot to do with weather, exposure to sun and cold etc. That is now gone in many places in the world. It's time for races to melt together and they are doing that, slowly and against some societal hurdles, but more and more frequently.

Looking at the big picture, we are making a ton of progress. It just hasn't trickled down to Joe the plumber's income yet. Women also still don't have equal pay for equal work. Gays are also still struggling to find total acceptance. It's nowhere near perfect. But, it's coming along.

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man

It also depends on who is applying and the qualifications. If no Indian had ever walked into that store or submitted an application, then it wouldn't be racist because the opportunity does not present itself.

It would be.
Depending on why the Indian is hiring nothing but Asians, he may just be pragmatic. No racism needed to get people to do anything for money. Just money

I'd say it would be racist if he excludes people from being hired because they don't meet the racial criteria set up by him.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley

(26-07-2013 09:36 AM)Dom Wrote: You know, the thing with racism isn't a cultural thing, it's a human thing. And it actually has nothing whatsoever to do with color.

All races have been "racist" like forever. When you had a small European community, and people barely ever travelled anywhere but just stuck to tending fields and livestock, they were "racist" in the complete absence of other races. They had feuds. It's the same thing - they discriminated against people who were not in their clan.

Same thing in Africa and anywhere in the world.

THAT is the root of it all, not actually races. Regardless of race or origin or skin tone, either you belong in the "clan" or group or you don't.

Looking at it from that perspective, a much broader perspective, we have come a long way in some parts of the world. The races/clans travel now, get exposure all over, and mix and mingle and interbreed. Something that was unthinkable just 100 years ago.

It is part of evolution, races don't make much sense anymore, we all live in houses and are not exposed to the weather like we used to be. Race has a lot to do with weather, exposure to sun and cold etc. That is now gone in many places in the world. It's time for races to melt together and they are doing that, slowly and against some societal hurdles, but more and more frequently.

Looking at the big picture, we are making a ton of progress. It just hasn't trickled down to Joe the plumber's income yet. Women also still don't have equal pay for equal work. Gays are also still struggling to find total acceptance. It's nowhere near perfect. But, it's coming along.

Agreed. And the reason it is coming along is because it has been recognized as an issue. But the point of my OP (and I am not accusing you of not understanding it, just reiterating my point) is that by trying to pull the "race card" card or cry "reverse discrimination!" The lines are being blurred and the water murkied. Causing people to think it isn't actually an issue anymore.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley

(26-07-2013 09:35 AM)TheGulegon Wrote: It would be.
Depending on why the Indian is hiring nothing but Asians, he may just be pragmatic. No racism needed to get people to do anything for money. Just money

I'd say it would be racist if he excludes people from being hired because they don't meet the racial criteria set up by him.

All this "it" Please tell me you realize that discrimination based on ethnicity can be perpetrated by someone who is not, themselves, racist. The end result is the same, yes, I understand that. But you take restrictions away, and the non-racist picks who he likes. Take away the restrictions from a true racist, they'll make the same decision every time...because they're a racist asshole.

(26-07-2013 09:36 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: I'd say it would be racist if he excludes people from being hired because they don't meet the racial criteria set up by him.

All this "it" Please tell me you realize that discrimination based on ethnicity can be perpetrated by someone who is not, themselves, racist. The end result is the same, yes, I understand that. But you take restrictions away, and the non-racist picks who he likes. Take away the restrictions from a true racist, they'll make the same decision every time...because they're a racist asshole.

I am arguing that there are racist people and racist actions. And yes, someone can discriminate based on race without it being their own race getting privilege. Because they can be using race as a means for personal benefit. They are being racist without necessarily being a racist.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley