8 Answers

YES. Brilliant article, I just read it last night. Finally someone who doesn’t pull punches and places the blame right where it belongs…the stupid, uncritical American voter who’d see his country go to hell in a handbasket in order to elect someone more like themselves.

Do you not think it’s possible for reasonable people to disagree on matter of political ideology? Or should we all of us run our vote past you first?

Tell you what, I’m gonna have file an absentee ballot this year anyway… want to send me your mailing address in PM so you can fill it out for me? You being the intelligentandcritical American voter in the know and all.

Oh yah… and how did I miss out on Rolling Stone being the pre-eminent political publication? Stupid me. I guess I better go grab Tiger Beat so I can learn more out this bailout thingamabob all those smart people in Warshingtan are wurkin’ on so gud.

NO robmandu, I’m stating a fact. Not everyone who votes Republican or differently than I do is stupid, uncritical or unreasonable. You KNOW that’s not what I said. What I said is that this article was a stunning indictment of the stupid and uncritical voter in American politics. If you really believe that there aren’t MILLIONS of Americans who vote based on who they’d rather have a beer with than based on issues, I have a bridge in Alaska I’d like to sell you.

Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. It is not only possible, but desirable for people to disagree based on political ideology. What bothers me is what bothers Matt Taibi, writer of this article, that it is NOT political ideology that often moves voters, it is not discourse on issues that we get, it is that there is a WAY too large segment of the American populous who simply looks for someone “like me” when they go the voting booth, and not for “the best candidate.”

I simply don’t understand what in ANYTHING I’ve said, and in the myriad of times in various boards where I’ve posted where you and I have gone back and forth and I’ve said in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, “I think EVERYONE should vote his conscience.” I just pine for an informed electorate.

You have the unmitigated gall to PM me and ask me to scale back the “attacks” on you, then you come right back the next day and put more ridiculous words in my mouth, treat me with sarcasm and act like I’M trying to twist your arm.

I cannot fathom how you can claim facts like that there are “MILLIONS of Americans who vote based on who they’d rather have a beer with than based on issues”.

You’re talking sound bites there, buddy… as pitched by the Democrat campaign machine. That’s no better than someone parroting back that Palin fought earmark spending as part of the Republican campaign machine.

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Are there some people that vote for stupid reasons? Of course.

But here’s my point… you only ever seem to point that out when it’s conveniently pro-Democrat and/or anti-Republican.

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Also, I’d like to point out that the tone of my response in any given discussion has been proportional and commiserate to the one you’ve already started with.

I’m not out to get you. Really, I’m not. I don’t follow you from Q to Q. I am very active on Fluther, though. I just see this debate as moving across a varied landscape.

You know what, this to me is about you coming onto two boards (at least…I haven’t read every discussion on here) today alone, and launching into full scale attacks on me, in one case about something that happened WEEKS ago.

Look, I believe there are millions of uncritical voters, I don’t think that’s a Democratic talking point, I think you talk to pundits on the left or right and they will all decry the lack of information an appalling # of people bring into the voting booth with them. You can disagree with me, and that’s OK. I’ve always valued discussion and disagreement, I think it’s how we come to concensus and understand each other.

But you seem to want me to argue for points I don’t agree with. Yes, I’m very liberal, and damn proud of it. So I argue HOW I SEE THE WORLD. The difference between you and me is, I don’t expect you to see the world the way I do, but you seem to want me to see the world from your perspective. I just don’t, I disagree with you, and I am NOT afraid to say so.

If you read the article and read the opinion I expressed, you would see that I was not talking about everyone in blanket statements. If you’d read my posts on Fluther, you’d find that I’m very open to listening to other points of view, but I argue with them if I don’t agree with them. I’m not going to stop that, it’s my RIGHT to do so. But I believe in trying to be respectful about it, unless a line is crossed.

And you, sir have crossed that line, yet I’m still doing my best to be respectful to you. You have gone on two boards today and as much as said that I don’t listen to anyone’s point of view but my own. That is NOT true. I don’t agree with everyone who expresses his point of view and I’m not shy about telling a person I don’t agree and why, but I defy you to show me ONE EXAMPLE of where I’ve told someone they can’t speak their mind. ONE EXAMPLE of where I’ve said “you have to agree with me.” You will find a myriad of examples of me telling people what I think and using facts AND opinion to make my argument. But I don’t insult people and I don’t tell them they’re not entitled to their opinion. Yet you seem to think that because I don’t ever espouse one of your viewpoints, I’m not allowing people to express themselves.

I don’t HAVE to buy your arguments. I give credit where credit is due. Hey, talk to critter1982, he and I disagree about everything, but he knows that I value the back and forth and have no problem with him expressing his opinion when it differs from mine. I can show you many times where I’ve been thanked for being able to agree to disagree. Indeed, I PRIDE myself on it. So it is a PERSONAL affront to me when I have gone out of my way to make sure that anyone feels safe to disagree with me, only to have someone imply that I’m trying to shut them up. No, sir…I am DISAGREEING with your worldview, but I would defend TO THE DEATH your right to express it.

So please stop putting words in my mouth and please stop talking smack about me wherever you feel like it. I do not do this to you.

It interests me that Senator Obama got points given AND got points taken away in the media for saying he agreed with Senator McCain on various issues. Personally I think being able to do so is a huge strength, because it makes it clear that he’s not just doing knee-jerk contentiousness.
Since I feel this way (and I know, not everyone does), I would love to see each of you guys say one thing to the other that shows you’re not only paying attention but also able to say “Yes, that seems fair and smart to me”. I think both of you are terrific, but you’re hurting each other and it’s making each of you a bit less smart than you are at your best.