<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> also i heard last night on bill maher, 42% of americans believe iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks. <p><hr></blockquote><p> At least that number who believed the lies is getting smaller. 65% believed it at the start of the war.<br><br><br><br><br><br>luciferase is a four nineteener

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>You know, I can't think of a single christian parent that has had their unruly child stoned to death, or sold their daughters to slavery. Yet, they consider this book scripture and try to abide by its teachings? How strange. I expect they'll burn.<p><hr></blockquote><p>The Old Testament is an historical account of the basis of many religious beliefs.<br><br>Christianity is firmly rooted in the historical account of The New Testament.<br><br><br>got to let your eyes adjust

Hey Trog, without the OT there's no need, or even possibility for the NT. Why a savior if there's no original sin? Why House of Jesse if the Nation of Israel isn't significant? Why Bethlehem, why the escape to Egypt, why the entire antitypological status of every element of the NT if the OT is irrelevant? Not to say that Slap is wrong in distinguishing the "spirit" of the NT from the "letter" of the OT--but that "spirit" has justified a lot of really really nasty behavior, from burning heretics and witches ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is in the OT, but Christians applied it gleefully) to warfare between contending sects, within the Christian communion. After all, Christ himself says that "I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10.24). And evidence of that abounds. Consider the way that some Christian preachers treat the death of Matthew Shepard, for instance. The Grand Dragon of the PA KKK lives in my town, and he's incorporated himself as minister of the Church of Christ, Savior. I could go on.<br><br>No doubt those folks misinterpret Matthew 10.24 and misapply OT texts to justify their behavior. I know that from the inside of Christianity, so to speak, cause I was raised in the general Christian faith and know the texts of Christianity fairly well, at least historically speaking. I don't see the Islamic texts from inside Islam, however. I can't pass judgment.<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I don't see the Islamic texts from inside Islam, however. I can't pass judgment.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Rest assured, man - lots of others are plenty willing to.... and apparently they don't have to leave thier home to do it, either!<br><br>max<br>Ruralania

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>After all, Christ himself says that "I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10.24).<p><hr></blockquote><p>That would be: Matthew 10:34<br><br>In context:<br><br> 34 Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, I came to bring a sword. 35 I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Your enemies will be right in your own household! <br><br>That would appear to be what "moderate" Muslims, Christians and Others are battling in the War on Terror. <br><br>The answer it seems, is fairly apparent, the "moderates" need to pass judgment. <br><br>The diffuculty it seems, is related to: Matthew 10:24<br><br>24 A student is not greater than the teacher. A servant is not greater than the master. 25 The student shares the teacher's fate. The servant shares the master's fate. And since I, the master of the household, have been called the prince of demons, how much more will it happen to you, the members of the household! 26 But don't be afraid of those who threaten you. For the time is coming when everything will be revealed; all that is secret will be made public. 27 What I tell you now in the darkness, shout abroad when daybreak comes. What I whisper in your ears, shout from the housetops for all to hear!<br><br><br><br><br>got to let your eyes adjust

Wow... no one here can actually argue an ethical point?<br><br>Let me answer your question directly. Torture is wrong both ethically and pragmatically. Psychologists and agents in the CIA have long proven that torture is an ineffective means of gathering information. That point alone makes torture completely indefensible in any modern value set.<br><br>That is why you are seeing so much avoidance in this thread. A question about torture has people condemning the media and religious tenants. Have some freedom of conscience for God sakes!<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>That is why you are seeing so much avoidance in this thread. A question about torture has people condemning the media and religious tenants. Have some freedom of conscience for God sakes!<p><hr></blockquote><p>The awareness of a moral or ethical aspect to one's conduct together with the urge to prefer right over wrong: <br><br>Are most definitely associated with the media and religious tenets.<br><br>I believe that Psychologists and agents in the CIA would agree.<br><br>I agree that "freedom of conscience for God sakes!" is appropriate. <br><br><br>got to let your eyes adjust

I can understand if you are disagreeing with me operationally, but what we are arguing here is whether or not torture by our government bodies can be appropriate or right. Since our government operates along its own code of law and value system totally separate (although not exclusive) from any religious tract, speaking about the relative merits of Muslim and Christian values does not satisfy the original question.<br><br>In simpler language, bringing up the Koran and the Bible is effectively changing the subject.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>

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