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Enough PC Talk About Working Women

With “Rosengate” virtually gone from public discourse, as I knew it would be, there remains one related item that still gnaws at me. On HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher”, Maher, a blunt, rude, confrontational SOB if there ever was one, made the following comment:

What she [Rosen] meant to say, I think, was that Ann Romney has never gotten her ass out of the house to work.

No one is denying that being a mother is a tough job. I remember that I was a handful. Okay, but there is a big difference in being a mother, and that tough job, and getting your ass out of the door at 7am when it’s cold, having to deal with the boss, being in a workplace, and even if you’re unhappy you can’t show it for 8 hours, that is a different kind of tough thing.

Now, I won’t get into whether or not Maher’s (or Hillary Rosen’s) comments actually apply to Ann Romney. I don’t know enough about Ann Romney to discuss her work history. But if we take Ann out of the picture, what Maher said is 100% dead on accurate.

As this debate about “working” women has gone back and forth there has been a politically correct bit of foolishness that has bothered the crap out of me.

Work in common parlance is defined as an effort that is rewarded with remuneration from another party, typically called an employer or a boss. By that definition women who earn money doing something at home, work at home. My wife works at home. Women who are not compensated for what they do at home, do not work at home. Do they expend lots of effort? Sure they do. Is raising kids, cooking and keeping a house clean hard “work”? Of course it is. But it ain’t a job and it doesn’t pay the rent and no amount of politically correct talk will make it any different.

So why do we tie ourselves in knots talking about what used to be called housewives, working at home? The feminist movement is largely to blame for this. They fought for equal access to the workplace and equal pay, both lofty and righteous goals, but along the way they passed judgment on women who did not want to enter the “rat race”. By the way, that is a concise way of describing the world Bill Maher referred to. It’s the rat race. Women who chose to stay at home and devote most of their effort toward raising children and “keeping house” were judged sell-outs, or not living up to their potential. This of course, is nonsense. Being a housewife is as valid a choice as sitting in the corner office sixty hours per week.

So now, when housewives hear that they don’t work, it is equivalent to hearing that they don’t contribute and that understandably gets them angry. Well let’s set the record straight. Housewives don’t work, in the sense of earning a living. They do contribute beyond measure. In fact I think it’s high time the old-fashioned word housewife returned to its former prominence. Women who steer the family ship deserve a title that rightly distinguishes them.

Working women and housewives are not the same. One is not better than the other. They are simply different. Why can’t we acknowledge that difference without a volcano of debate erupting?

Postscript: We won’t even touch the fact that most working women must pick up the housewife role at the end of the work day, adding to the complexity and resentment attached to these issues. That is for another post on another day.

Rutherford: I think there is a false dichotomy here. It’s not like women (or men) have a choice between working outside the home on the one hand and taking care of the house and the kids on the other. People who work outside the home STILL have to take care of the house and the kids — cook, clean, do laundry, help with homework, take the kids to doctors’ appointments, play with them, read to them, etc. Unless, of course, one’s job allows for hiring a staff of caretakers, but that isn’t possible for most of us. Lots of people are upset by the implication that housewives don’t work — yet they turn around and suggest, quite ridiculously, that women who “sit in the corner office sixty hours per week” do no work in the home.

Dude. Have you seen the cost of day care, lately? Add in the price of gas to get to work. The price of carry out food. Make no mistake about it. Women who work from home make a tangible salary that can be realized on an Excel sheet.

As for your comment about scary black guys brandishing clubs at an election site being much ado about nothing cracked me up. You even refer to them as “scary”. Most old school liberals who got their skulls cracked over protesting the intimidatiom at elections were aghast

Amused, welcome to the blog. Yes, my postscript went in exactly the direction you intended I think. Lots of working women don’t come home to a martini, dinner waiting for them, etc. etc.

In addition, something I didn’t address in my piece, in this economy the notion of free choice is out the window. Many women must work to help with the bills while still maintaining parenting and household responsibilities.

So your point is well taken. I focused on the semantics of “working women” but didn’t delve deeply into the reality of women working in 2012.

Amused is correct. Women who work still bust their ass at home. However, due to there not being enough time in the day, there are things just don’t get done.

For many working mothers, having a job baffels me when you add up the opportunity cost. They end up opting for a professional career for McDonalds pay, when you do the math. For what? Cable TV, a bigger house and stress from hell?

Dude. Have you seen the cost of day care, lately? Add in the price of gas to get to work. The price of carry out food. Make no mistake about it. Women who work from home make a tangible salary that can be realized on an Excel sheet.

Sorry Rabbit, I don’t get your point. My entire thesis is that the women you just described DO work from home and that those who don’t make any sort of salary DON’T work from home. My wife earns a great salary and never goes to the office. However, she does deal with some of the sh*t that Bill Maher referred to … sh*t that housewives don’t have to deal with.

Read the piece again, Either you’re confused or I need to clean it up a bit.

Shallow materialism is also a catalyst. Heaven forbid a family enjoys life in the lower middle class instead of the middle class. Make 38 grand, pay 15 in child care. But you have one of those cheaply built colonials and live in some card board subdivision close to the strip mall and Olive Garden. Weeeeee!

You have one kid. A brilliant little girl I may add who is of school age. You would be singing a different tune if you had more then one in diapers. If your wife works from home like mine does, it would be impossible without daycare. Thus, the Rabbits have to figure out what to do upon the birth of our second.

Rabbit, you’re right on your subsequent comments. As I told Amused, I was really getting tired of the semantic argument about housewives wanting to be called “women who work at home” when they don’t. That was the focus of my piece.

As for women who do, like your wife and mine, I get everything you say. Our daughter was in day care as soon as we thought she could handle it. At that time, my wife and I worked from home and a kid in the house was a distraction from work, to say the least. Plus, there was only a minimum of tolerance from co-workers for kids background noise while you’re on a business call.

I also agree with you about lots of people trying to live above their means. I was guilty of that and it nearly lost me my home. I was very lucky to be able to sell my way out of it.

You can tell Maher must never have had a children – because apparently Bill Maher doesn’t understand that being a homemaker means getting up a hell of a lot earlier than you do in a corporate job – kids have to be at school, don’t they?

See, I bring a unique perspective as a male, because I cared for my two children minus their mother during the week for the last four years of their high school before either started driving, and I walked into a corporate job every cold morning for 20 years. So I have an experience neither you or Maher have.

And I can tell you walking in to receive pay in a job is a hundred times easier than caring for children – and my children were practically grown.

If I ever get the chance and I run into Maher, I will be going to jail. Because I promise you I am going to beat the living hell out of Bill Maher and most of the world besides your shit world is going to stand up and cheer when I do. That is a sacrifice worth making. I mean, I’m going to beat the living shit out of him for being a fucking, mouthy coward hiding behind body guards and a TV.

The day somebody shoots that mofo in cold blood or Maher dies some horrific death and the more horrific the better, I am going to come to your blog and cheer, and razz, and lay a big steaming pile on this very blog in celebration.

I would rather have shaken Osama Bin Laden’s hand that Bill Maher’s. I am actively rooting for his grisly death. And I don’t think much more of his fans.

Tex, I don’t think I know anyone more capable of missing the point of a post than you.

Working women and housewives are not the same. One is not better than the other. They are simply different.

What about that sentence did you not understand? When you say housewives (or househusbands in your case) work from home, you are engaging in politically correct bullsh*t. If they don’t earn money, they ain’t working in the commonly accepted sense of the word.

I DO agree with you on one point though Tex. Bill Maher is an arrogant prick who has never married or had kids but seems to know a whole lot about marriage and children.

This is a case of getting the message without necessarily endorsing the messenger.

P.S. I have a love/hate relationship with Maher. Every now and then he says stuff that really resonates with me. But overall he seems a very cynical and unhappy man. Not someone I would likely make friends with. (I also love how he lectures about healthy foods while he poisons his lungs smoking dope.)

I agree, in many cases, economics don’t support a woman’s job outside of home. But every situation is different. We would have lost the farm during the depression had my wife not taught school. We had baby sitters three times. Otherwise the children were with us or their grand parents.

My wife cared for them during the summer, and I had them in winter. We let the children know we were one unit and everyone had a job to help our family survive. For example, our son and later daughter, sat in the truck with my wife before he was three His job was to tell my wife when I was approaching to unload the combine.

You are lucky to have had that time to warp your childrens’ minds as I did, Tex. Few fathers get the chance to be so close to their offspring. It was hard, but one of the best times of my life.

I hope someone someday tells Bill Mahre what Niles told Frazure after he was fired. “You’re not famous any more.” That would hurt Bill more than a fist to the jaw.

Rutherford, you are as superficial and insincere as Maher. No wonder you suck his cock.

But if we take Ann out of the picture, what Maher said is 100% dead on accurate.

No, he is not accurate. Maher is an enabler and sorry excuse for living. This post is about as sincere as the quality of Hilary Rosen’s “apology.”

Work: Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

Dumb fuck.

One thing that always pissed me off about Todd Palin. We didn’t he challenge this coward Maher to fight? Todd Palin could kill Bill Maher and that would be worthy of a national holiday. Kill that mofo Todd. Choke the life right out of that bastard, and then we’ll hang him in effigy and dance around his broken body.

Raising a child is THE most important responsibility a parent has. And it is the hardest thing to do right. Often it is easier to assign them to the day care or a nanny or to private and public schools.

Work has little to do with monetary compensation, although that is often the incentive. If you mean a job slot or career, then yes, some are home-based.

Women’s lib was a plan to tear up the families. Mom traditionally held the fort. In some cases, dad. Some folks who would prefer a career over kids had new opportunities. But framing those as greater successes than raising the next generation is ridiculous. I cannot think of anything more critical than sacrificing one’s time and energy to benefit the upcoming generation.

If more parents stayed home and raised their kids, we would not have near the psychotic behaviors we do, IMO. With many men losing their jobs, the child-raising has fallen into many of their laps. Many have taken the job seriously and the families will be better for it.

Obviously Tex you’re not interested in an intelligent discussion if the best you can do is urge Todd Palin to “kill Bill”.

Work: Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

Any “dumb f*ck” can quote the dictionary. You know damn well what the commonly accepted concept of work is.

I’m forgetting that I’m dealing with someone who has his own “stay at home Daddy” issues. If you’re telling me that adjusting from corporate life to kid/home care didn’t make you re-evaluate your priorities and your values system then you’re a liar.

Stop being defensive. Your contribution in staying home with your kids was worthwhile, not better or worse than your corporate contribution. But when you were a stay-at-home Daddy, you weren’t working in the commonly accepted sense of the word. You’re fooling yourself to say otherwise.

By the way, before you go there, my status is far more fuzzy. I have a business that makes no money. Technically I’m not working since I have no income. The amount of “effort” I expend is pretty damn irrelevant when rent time comes. :-(

No Rutherford. I understand “work” completely and I know exactly how difficult the work of raising children is. Now multiply by 250% Ann Romney’s job, plus boys, and you’re the one that is completely clueless.

I’ll guarantee the TV, politics and money are your life in about that order, and everything else is secondary.

Tex …. puhleeeze. You protest too much. Calling a housewife a housewife if that is what she truly is does not denigrate her. No where in the post do I say that full time parenting and homemaking are easy. No where. As usual, you construct an argument I haven’t made so you can enjoy the jousting.

You don’t have a clue about my priorities. FYI: they are my wife and kid in equal measure … then money .. yes I DO care about money, it is the life blood of survival in modern society. Everything else (TV and politics) is a diversion. If you told me I had to choose between my family and TV/politics, my choice would be clear. If you don’t know that, you really are a horse’s ass.

This post was not about the virtues of raising a family. So the lectures on that topic are …. off topic.

My mom stayed home and raised 5 boys. After we all left the house she went back to school and became a nurse. If you asked her which was more challenging and harder work, raising 5 boys or her nursing, job she would bust out laughing.

Rutherford, This post reminds me of your comments regarding the woman who “found herself pregnant”. You are arguing semantics over the concept of women’s work just like you did in the above comment. In Leave it to Beaver, Housewives “found” themselves pregnant and “worked” in the home.

So Maher is 100% dead on is he? How does that imagine fit the woman who earns a salary staying at home. She is not “getting her ass out the door at 7am when it’s cold”. In your opinion work is work only when it produces income. What about work that saves income? If you can service your own vehicle and save the cost of a mechanic, is that not work? What do you consider the work that countless volunteers do?

I am certainly not going to debate the pros and cons of what constitutes a working woman. In todays world husbands and wives both work and not necessarily to provide a better level of living but to assure that at least one will still have a job when the other has been laid off. Maintaining a home is just that, maintenance regardless of whether or not it is the man or woman. Maintenance of a homesite is necessary to maintain the value of the home or increase it’s value. That in it’s self will produce income at the time of sale. Do you not consider that work?

I understand the point you are trying to make about all this so called being politically correct stuff but ” Me thinks” you have stepped in deep shit on this post.

I’m okay with Bill Maher, as a comedian. Much of his stuff is vulgar and a lot of it tasteless. He is often clever and usually condescending. That is his act. He has made millions doing it. He has many fans.

If you don’t like his shtick, ignore it. If he is making “news”, then, like the Nuge, take it for what it’s worth.

R, I believe you have discovered a Tex “green bean”. Or do you think Jesus will be in the front row clutching a bucket of popcorn during the Maher-Tex UFC match? ;)

“If I ever get the chance and I run into Maher, I will be going to jail. Because I promise you I am going to beat the living hell out of Bill Maher and most of the world besides your shit world is going to stand up and cheer when I do. That is a sacrifice worth making. I mean, I’m going to beat the living shit out of him for being a fucking, mouthy coward hiding behind body guards and a TV.” – Tex

“Currently, 12 FORTUNE 500 companies are run by women, down from 15 last year, as three left their posts and were succeeded by men. Beth E. Mooney of KeyCorp, joins this year, though, as the first ever woman chief of a top 20 U.S. bank.”

If it’s clear that women who stay home “earn” something material and that it is hard work, what’s the fucking point of this conversation? I don’t get it.

The fact that you had to put earn in quotes is the point of this conversation.

One of the consequences of the Rosengate kerfuffle was this notion of women who work outside the home vs those that work in the home. BUT they didn’t mean women who earn money at home. They meant housewives. To me saying housewives work at home is politically correct bullsh*t. They don’t do what we commonly call work. That doesn’t mean what they do is of less worth. But we don’t need to call motherhood and homemaking by a different name to make it sound worthwhile. It has worth all on its own.

Read my upcoming response to Raji because I did make one key mistake in my piece. Stay tuned.

No one is talking about “helping”. What you say is true but it doesn’t address what I wrote about. Providing a service that an employer gives you money for directly pays the rent. Does that exist in the absence of a support system (the “help” that you’re referring to)? Of course not. But that’s not the point.

Raji, I plead guilty as charged. I DID make a mistake on that because Maher specifically talked about getting your ass out the door at 7am. I can’t speak for him but I assumed he was thinking in 1960’s terms and not accounting for the growing number of men and women who earn money from home offices.

So no, I don’t believe you have to literally leave the home every day in order to be considered a “worker”. But much of the other rat race stuff that Maher references does apply to work-at-home women. They have to teleconference with assh*les they’d rather not be bothered with, They have to participate in projects that are doomed from the start, mandated by dumbass executives with skewed priorities. Those are obligations not faced by housewives.

On the other hand, housewives (and the rare househusband) are at the beck and call of their young children. They have to juggle house making, cooking, “morale management” for the family. I have no illusions about how difficult it is to stay at home and raise a family.

Again, I return to my primary thesis …. a housewife and a worker are different. Neither better, but different.

” Me thinks” you have stepped in deep shit on this post.

LOL … well in a prior thread I warned everyone that I was going to write two posts that would piss off two different constituencies. The first was the NRA post and the second was this one. I didn’t expect this post to win me any friends. But I do have to laugh at the die hard conservatives who have suddenly turned into Phil Donahue simply to debate with Fantasy Rutherford. Just about everyone here, with the possible exception of James, thinks I wrote a post about how housewives are worthless. Again we either have a reading comprehension problem or folks have constructed an argument made by Fantasy Rutherford that has nothing to do with the post, just for the pleasure of having a debate.

Thor, I swear if you are an example of God’s work, I may have to become a believer after all

:lol: You don’t understand, Rutherford. You already are.

So Thor, if by chance I happen to refer to your wife as CUNT or TWAT on this blog and elsewhere, speak of her stupidity on a constant basis, make fun of your autistic boy, and generally insult everything you hold dear, I can hold you to that standard of turning the other cheek, hey?

I’m not being coy, I don’t understand Rutherford’s point of this blog. Is it merely semantics over the definition of “working”?

Oh, Rutherford’s contention is easy to read Brother Rabbit, if you simply understand the motive and what Rutherford holds near and dear.

This is to tacitly excuse the Rosen comment, and minimize the damage of what she said in a rare moment of liberal honesty, realizing that opinion didn’t go over well in the general populace.

Liberals hold homemakers in contempt, as they hold Christianity in contempt. If you doubt me, read Media Matters stated purpose, first paragraph, provided:

Media Matters is a non-profit liberal watchdog group that has the ear of not only the mainstream media, but also the Obama administration.

As part of its strategy, Media Matters frequently targets Christian organizations in an effort to counter what it views as pro-Christian “bias in news reporting and analysis by the American media.”

“It is common for news and commentary by the press to present viewpoints that tend to overly promote…a conservative, Christian-influenced ideology,” the group said in its application for non-profit status with the IRS.

Thor’s m.o. is straight out of the Alinsky rules for radicals, Part IV and V:

the fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

…the fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.

When you understand what they cherish above all else, every post and reply is completely understandable.

The Congressional Budget Office said Thursday that 45 million people in 2011 received Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits, a 70% increase from 2007. It said the number of people receiving the benefits, commonly known as food stamps, would continue growing until 2014.

Another Obama 2008 loving rube self identifies. Make sure to market these statistics when one of the 2012 Obama rubes touts Obama’s strong record of saving us from the Depression (Thor):

Mort Zuckerman: President Obama’s Economic Programs Have Failed

For the 80 percent of Americans born after World War II, this is their Depression. They have 5.5 million fewer jobs than at the recession’s start in 2008, despite the most stimulative fiscal and monetary policy in our history. Employment has been below the pre-recession peak for over 50 months. It’s the longest time since the Great Depression that payrolls have not made a new high. The 120,000 new jobs for March make no dent (and adjusted for the peculiarity of warm weather, the number of real net jobs created was 76,000); we need at least 125,000 jobs each month just to provide for new entrants in a rising population.

Discouraged workers dropping out of the labor force make the unemployment rate look fractionally better, but the 8.2 percent headline masks the misery. It is a reflection of the U-3 statistic, which counts only people who have applied for a job in the last four weeks. Among the jobless army, a staggering 42 percent of them are long-term unemployed, without jobs for six months or longer. Look instead at the more relevant U-6 statistic, which counts the number of people who have applied over the last six months. U-6 also includes those who are involuntarily working on a part-time basis. That U-6 unemployment is now in the range of 15 percent. Since 2008, some 3 million people have dropped out of the job market. If they hadn’t, the unemployment rate would be about 10.8 percent. In March, the unemployment rate seemed to fall a tenth of 1 percent, yet the number of people who are actually employed dropped by 31,000. Why? Because the number of people who looked for a job dropped by 164,000 and they are not considered unemployed. Not to mention that half the new jobs are in temporary help agencies.

Heh! Rutherford, this is going to end very badly for one of your former chosen – your hero before he fell into disrepute amongst the breathren. Other than Maher, I can’t think of a nicer guy it happening to: :smile: And when it does, like Maher, I’m going to come in here and cheer…

Congratulations Libs. I scolded this Eurowienie the other day here, not recognizing our “Intercontinental Railroad” President has been so successful at creating debt, we actually have surpassed Europe.

As you like to say, Rutherford, it’s a distinction without a difference. Money is fungible. Whether a household member earns a paycheck and uses part of it to finance daycare or actually does all the child-rearing herself, it’s all the same.

Whether we are talking about husband, wife, child who lives at home and contributes part of his paycheck – or part of his labor – to the household, it doesn’t matter. Each brings value to the table, whether $ or labor – and that benefits the family unit, increasing their net wealth.

The elephant in the room is, why do today’s Americans feel that they cannot make it on one paycheck? One of the janitors at my hospital – a black gentleman in his late fifties – came by yesterday to wish me well and we had a long talk. He is making $7.45/hour, he said. You think he can live on that and pay the kind of taxes we all pay – including the Bernanke-tax? (inflation) After he pays for all the GSA parties and the fifteen year-olds’ obstetrical care, think he has anything left to eat on?

No, my friend, he does not. And IMHO the once-and-forever bottom line leads straight to that particular group of bastards that get their mail in Washington, DC. Fix THAT and you have fixed the problem.

You’re right Rutherford, I didn’t think you were denigrating housewives. However, homemakers also “have to teleconfrence with asslles they would rather not bother with… they have to participate with projects that are doomed from the start…”

Homemakers do not work in isolation. Many must use their organizational skills if for nothing else the education of their and other children.

Bake sales, volunteering at school and other fund raisers, are comparable to similar projects at a paid job.(I agree, they are not exactly the same.) Home makers are active in politics, churches, or other activities which help keep a community together. If you want to meet self interested assllls, work on a year-long fund raising committee for prom and post prom. Field trips are another chore requiring organizational skills interpersonal skills.

I believe we condescend toward homemakers in part because the liberal agenda has made it even part of our culture to denigrate work at home women because feminists were fighting discrimination in the work place.

A local television news story demonstrated the economics of working outside of the home. In many cases, it is a wash or the job costs more than working at home. Sometimes, the job carries psychological value worth more than the lost money, but that is another issue.

I agree with Pfessor. Yes, the bottom line leads to Washington, but it stops with all of us who put those people in office.

And that is what terrifies me, James. It’s not as simple as Barack Obama is President.

What scares the bejesus out of me is after three plus years of experiencing abject failure, broken campaign promises, massive debt, one boondoggle after another, a debt downgrade, 50MM on food stamps, racial division and class warfare, radical/unelected czars, oreign policy disasters, and the worst economic recovery in the history of the States, there’s millions of people that want to continue down the same path. :shock:

Git them Obamastash dollars – trading in their birthrite for a bowl of porriage.

We have reached a tipping point. Half of our country has become dependent on the government. Most people don’t have the time or inclination to learn more than what the media tells them. They generalize from what they know. If they are fine, the country is doing well. If they are struggling, their lot would be so much worse without our benevolent government to protect them. As people believe working away from home is an economic necessity it becomes a higher calling,

The end is coming. Even the CBO tells us so. Ted Nugent may be right.

Listen carefully to “Fast Car” by Tracy Chapman. It is one of the saddest songs I know, and I believe it is a metaphor for the civilization which nurtured us.

“So Thor, if by chance I happen to refer to your wife as CUNT or TWAT on this blog and elsewhere, speak of her stupidity on a constant basis, make fun of your autistic boy, and generally insult everything you hold dear, I can hold you to that standard of turning the other cheek, hey?” – Tex

Consider the cheek turned. The tragic thing is that you think such talk hurts me and my family, when the only damage you have done is to yourself. Sad really.

Enjoy your time with the Missus. Someone told me the other day that all marriages end in divorce or death and that gave me some pause.

I managed to get my lords and masters to cut my required notice period from six months to three. (“How long do you want to stay in a bad marriage?” did the trick.) I am ecstatic over the possibilities to spend some serious time with my spouse and kids and explore some ideas for medical inventions. You are a lucky dude; I hope to join you in getting a life soon.

“Employment has been below the pre-recession peak for over 50 months.”

And Obama has been in office 39 months, so the economy was in free fall almost a year before he took the oath. However, the “Job Creators” have had their tax cuts for 128 months, and look at the robust economy they have created. Feels so good to be trickled on. ;)

An economic parable: A bus sits at the top of a hill, empty. A man releases the parking brake and the bus starts downhill, headed toward a crosswalk full of people going to work. Halfway down the hill, another man jumps on the bus and attempts to stop it, he eventually succeeds, but several pedestrians lay dead in the street.
Who’s to blame, the man that released the brake or the man that jumped on the bus?

And make no mistake, Romney has every intention of towing that bus right back up to the top of the hill and releasing the brake again.

Pretty good analogy, Thor. I would only add that Romney has no intention of towing the bus back up the hill, but he does have a tassel of excavators poised to dig the bottom down much deeper to extend that hill. :grin:

http://www.economica.ca/ew09_1p2.htm
An Alternative Method for Assessing the Value of Housewife Services
by Douglas W. Allen
This article first appeared in the spring 2004 issue of the Expert Witness.

“In this article, he argues that a widely-accepted theory of the manner in which individuals choose their spouses can cast light on the implied value that couples place on the value of housework. Specifically, he notes that many theories of spousal choice predict that individuals will choose mates in such a way that the contributions of the two spouses will be equal. If this is the case, then if the husband is working in the labour market, where he earns $50,000 per year, and the wife is working only at home, the value of her contribution to the marriage must also be $50,000.”

Thor’s comments would sound good if they were true. The job creators did hire hire people after the tax cuts. The unemployment rate was as low as 4.5%. The New York Times wrote about the unexpected windfall arriving at the US Treasury.

I like and respect what I know of you, thor, but you are repeating a lie made by people I don’t respect.

Our crash didn’t just happen. The government and lenders let people use homes based on dreams which became nightmares. Much of the blame rests in Democrats and some Republicans who still hold power.

Obama did not directly burst the housing bubble, but he helped create it. No one man or woman released the brake, but since he is president and his policies have placed us in economic danger, Obama is as good a representative as any. People have already “died” thanks to Obama, but as in the old Pete Seeger song, “the big fool said move on,” Bus driver, Obama lets the bus speed toward the cliff.

Good old wishy washy Charlie Brown (Romney) is prepared to jump on the bus and stop it. He will not take the bus up the hill and do it again. Your analogy breaks down there. Time will prove me right and you wrong.

Look at Video:The 2012 National Debt Road Trip for another analogy on Hot Air. Bush was helped create the problem, but Obama has taken it to a new level.

“Time will prove me right and you wrong.” is what helped get me in trouble on two other blogs. I am not as snarky and clever with put downs as Pfessor, or Tex. I will even admit when I am wrong. But if I KNOW as opposed to think I am right, I don’t back down, and I have the poor grace to say “I told you so.” I don’t expect anyone else to retreat either.

I made ten predictions on a blog we know shortly after Obama won the election. At the time, Honolulu Sally and I agreed time would tell. It did.

I agree with Ragi’s post.

Good luck Pfessor.

A link to the Drudge Report says the NAACP supports the Stand Your Ground Law in an abuse case. It could slightly relate to this thread. An allegedly abused woman was convicted for shooting her husband. The court refused to grant the woman immunity under the law, and a jury convicted her.

The NAACP has asked the court to reconsider evidence showing the woman feared for her safety before sentencing or to hold a new trial. Using SOG for domestic disputes is something I never considered.

National Journal “In Nothing We Trust” lets us meet one of thor’s bodies hit by the bus. Johnny Whitmire’s case is tragic enough, but the slow death of institutions is in my opinion partly attributable to long-term government policy.

Consider the cheek turned. The tragic thing is that you think such talk hurts me and my family, when the only damage you have done is to yourself. Sad really.

That comment was neither meant to hurt or help. It simply is the same standard your party holds. I intend to follow suit with you and your PDS.

See Poolman, Thor? That’s who you keep company with – a paranoia and hater of country, a mooch and a parasite who lives off the dole and walks from his mortgage; who likes to reference James but never learned the 8th Commandment; who sees ominous signs in Simpson cartoons. That’s who you keep company with – rah rah.

You like the Book of James, Poolman? Try this one on for size…

But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

You and your philosophy in a nutshell, Poolman. Rules for Radicals, dedicated to Lucifer, Rule #4.

Pretty good analogy, Thor. I would only add that Romney has no intention of towing the bus back up the hill, but he does have a tassel of excavators poised to dig the bottom down much deeper to extend that hill.

Really? Well tell me, Mr. Poolman, resident hemispheric giant. How exactly is it applying the brake when you’ve spent $5,000,000,000,000 you don’t have?

It would appear to me your hero applied no brake at all, and in fact though Romney has never driven the bus so yours sheer speculation what Romney might do, America has complete and undeniable proof Obama not only didn’t hit the brake, but slammed the accelerator to the floor and headed straight for the crowd, while promising to apply half the brake.

Can either of you deny this, or are you going to continue to lie through your teeth about who is accelerating the bus?

I think Poolman, you would find if you reread the Book of James, everything said is premised on one fact – something neither of you hold.

This is to tacitly excuse the Rosen comment, and minimize the damage of what she said …

Oh Tex you are quite the loon. What truly gobsmacks me is that as I wrote this post I thought at least two of my readers (you and Rabbit) would be the first to applaud because I know both of you despise politically correct speech. Just goes to show there is no predicting your reactions.

I don’t even understand what your point is. I think your passive aggressively trying to say that stay home moms and working moms are apples and oranges. You then blah blah about people who work from a home office. Thanks Captain Obvious. Working from home can suck too. Ultimately, I’m not offended by your puffed out chest as you pretend you are being politically incorrect. I think you slept in your Harvard economics class. Housewives do labor that can realize profit in cold cash. End of story, you butt dart.

Pfesser, I don’t argue with this. In my household in particular the “rule” has always been all money either of us makes is family money. No separate bank accounts, no hidden funds.

Again, you, like the others are arguing something I’m not dealing with. I’m simply dealing with the politically correct language of saying housewives have a job. They don’t.

I cross-post my articles to OpenSalon.com and a woman took a shot at me for my comments on feminism (comments by the way that none of you have addressed …. I really have to wonder if any of you actually READ what I wrote). She said that feminists were so supportive of housewives (or as she called them domestic workers) that they wanted to get them compensated.

My reply to her was, that is the very insult feminists gave to housewives. Housewives wanted respect not money. The feminist movement defined worthwhile contributions in men’s terms, i.e. not worth crap without remuneration. That isn’t support of housewives … that’s just compounding the value statement that undermines them.

By saving on child care for example? Fine. Doesn’t change the premise of what I wrote. You found my premise obvious? Apparently not everyone does since I heard a number of folks on the boob tube referring to full time housewives as “women who work at home”. They don’t and THAT is why I wrote the piece.

Really? Well, it wasn’t two weeks ago you were saying at BICs just how predictable all we Conservatives were, Rabbit and me most of all. Need a reminder? Are you a liar or just that forgetful?

Thor’s parable was not only wrong, it was diametrically opposed to the truth as I happily demonstrated. Only in a lib world of idiocy would $5,000,000,000,000.00 of overspending with absolutely nothing to show for it be considered putting on the brakes. You sure you were a math major, because last I looked spending $4,000,000,000.00 more a day then you took in wasn’t putting on the brakes. No wonder you don’t drive, because you’ve got the pedals ass backwards.

By the way, the community activist Obama only took 37% of the time to create as much debt as Bush did that you mathematically challenged used to berate Bush about.

I suppose since the Great ‘O’, the man of Hope and Change, the profundity of ‘Yes We Can’, promised to halve the deficit in his first year, that’s a topic that is taboo on “YOUR BLOG.” :wink:

You’re in assh*le mode again Rabbit. Stay off the Android and go lift some weights to deal with it. I wasn’t trying to be scary … just pointing out to old Tex that criticizing Thor’s blog on my blog is useless and stupid.

Since you’re so eager to take a piss at me today Rabbit, why don’t you turn some of your attention to your buddy Tex who likes to throw it in people’s faces when they walk away from their mortgage? You see, he’ll level it at Poolman but wouldn’t dare say it to you cos he knows you’d give him a cyberpunch to the balls that would keep him doubled over for the rest of the weekend … so much for that conjugal visit from the Mrs. :neutral:

The fact that I pointed out to Rabbit, who would have deciphered its intent eventually, that the purpose of this post was to minimize the damage of liberal stupidity only to display you’re one of the stupid, must have miffed you.

Poolman the parasite walked without paying, stiffed the light company, trailed on the phone bill, caved on the business.

Ummm, no. The mortgage company still owes me a grand. Cash for keys. But yes, I did leave because they were not willing to make a loan mod. I did get a couple years of “free rent” while they were playing their games. But they asked me to leave or they would evict me.

And the light company is the same as the one I still pay at my new place, along with the phone company. I don’t know where that “memory” came from, but it is wrong. Not surprising. The “light company” always get theirs or the lights don’t work. :smile:

Oh, and the business is actually getting busy again, so much so I can’t stay here and adequately keep slapping you back in your place. The others will have to step up their game. :lol:

I will spell it out again. thor’s parable is a lie. I’m not accusing him of lying. I am showing how he turned a lie into a parable. President Bill Clintons’ home ownership strategy which reduced down payment and other requirements to make it easy to own a home added 5.8 million new home owners to the economy. Janet Reno and others sent governnment officials to banks to pressure them to reserve some loans to low income people.

Banks and other companies sometimes colluded with prospective home buyers to make their ballance sheets look better than they were. Banks which held the bag turned the loans into other forms and sold them to others which polluted the world economy.

This artificially created demand and took the median home value to increase from 2% per year in 1994 to over 10% by the end of the Clinton administration. Before the bubble started to leak in 2006, the annual median value increase was up to more than 14%.

Corruption at Fannie and Freddie contributed to the problem, and a Democratically controlled Congress refused to regulate Fannie more strictly. The CBO also issued a warning. Bush attempted to create a regulatory body in the Treasury Department in 2003. Neb Senator Chuck Hagel submitted the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Act on Jan. 26, 2005. but it failed.

Obama, Dodd, Frank, and others contributed to the inevitable crash. As early as his Chicago days, Obama did legal work for ACORN to pressure banks to loan more money to poor people who’s repayment chances were below average.

Republicans share the blame too. The bubble made the economy look better than it was, and Republicans also believed expanding the number of families who owned homes was good for the country.

I could give you more, but you should have already known this. You and thor are smart. Why didn’t you do some research before reaching such conclusions? Rutherford and anyone else, please don’t insult our intelegence by calling that parable “smashing.” It is a lie. My supporting facts prove it. If you disagree, prove me wrong, but don’t tell me rain got my leg wet when it is sunny.

James, you’re more polite than I am. I am either calling Thor a bald-faced liar and farce, or an abject rank Moby shilling the Obama tune for reelection, under the guise of some abstract piety he’s drummed up.

Rutherford is a lackey to any left wing dogma and secondary toady on his own blog.

The minute some Yahoo comes in with an opinion averse to me, Rabbit, BIC, or Tigre, – Rutherford, no matter how farcical or stupid the nonsense, resorts to mental masturbation in a skirted cheerleader outfit.

I used to think Rutherford an independent mind – he’s got dependency issues. :lol: Kind of a Poolman lite with superior vocabulary.

I accused Tex of having little imagination in the past. Regarding that, I have to recant.

Somehow now I was graced with THREE years of no mortgage payment and was on the government dole, or role, or rolls… something like that. What a maroon!

AFA them owing me a grand… The mortgage company signed an agreement with me to leave the place “broom clean” and they would give me a grand. They sold me on it as money to help in my relocation expenses. It was incentive (their words) for me to not trash the place and just hand over the keys. The program is called “cash for keys” and came about as a result of the many folks tearing copper out of walls and punching holes through the sheetrock and doors, pouring cement down the toilets, stealing ACs, etc. They figured it would be beneficial to them and save them money in the long run.

They sent someone else’s check to me last year, after the person told me it was over-nighted and gave me a tracking number, minus the first digit. I always repeat these tracking numbers, confirmation numbers, etc., and take meticulous notes.

I even recorded all my conversations with these people after the loan went to default. So they intentionally messed with me. After I turned over the keys and passed their inspection, she said it would take 30 days to release the check. I told her, “How was that supposed to help me relocate?” She didn’t have an answer. Obviously, that was just a marketing ploy.

I had to initiate the contact every time after that. Finally, she called back and said the check was in the mail and gave me the incomplete tracking number. When the tracking number proved bogus, I tried calling back. I could only leave her voice mails that were not returned.

Several days later a check showed up, cut to somebody in Yuma. I tried contacting this person in Yuma with the address provided on the check to find out if maybe they got my check and I got theirs. The person and the address did not seem to exist.

I left a message with the gal from the mortgage department and told her I would be filing a complaint with our attorney general, and not to bother contacting me personally.

A few days later another gal from the mortgage company called and told me they could issue a new check and overnight it to me. I said, “Oh really? Let me think about it.”

Then in January I got a letter with that same info. It’s getting close to a year, so I need to decide whether to file a complaint or blow it off. I’ll probably just blow it off and call the mortgage company and get that check. Time to move on. They already sold the house and a family is living there.

So THAT explains the grand they owe me.

Now, I know your reading comprehension is not always so good. I don’t know if you needed the entire explanation, but there it is. Try to keep it accurate when you later use it against me. :wink:

The minute some Yahoo comes in with an opinion averse to me, Rabbit, BIC, or Tigre…

Hey I’ve been quite transparent that I get tired of “carrying the torch” alone. So, damn right, when a GypsyKat or a Fakename2 or a Thorsaurus stops in, I celebrate and I celebrate hard.

The fact of the matter is you and yours are in no better shape than Obama — you can’t prove a negative. I say Obama pulled the economy back from the brink of total disaster. You say he didn’t. You say John McCain would have done better. You can’t prove it. So we’re at a stalemate.

Yes, farmers are employed– self employed. We make our own plans and schedules within the constraints of necessity. We answer to ourselves with our work exposed for all the neighbors to see. We do not collect a regular pay check. Customers pay us for our product.

Housewives or house husbands are also self-employed They run their households and budget time or spending based on income and need. If they are parents, they send a more or less civilized product into the world as farmers provide their crops. Even if they don’t have children, they help carry the load for their spouses which helps make them more efficient at work. Many make civic contributions and when most wives worked at home, they were the traditional glue which held communities together.

A homemaker’s contribution, and pay are less tangible than a small business person’s or a volunteer agency but they are no less real.

“j say Obama pulled the country back from total disaster…” I say he did too by following and expanding the plan Bush started. However, his failure since then is demonstrable.Compare his policies with other presidents’ during past recessions.

We can also test our judgement. Travel back to the beginning and review how you interpreted the information you used to make assumptions about the present and the future. It can be the Obama administration, OWS, the Tea Party, or the Zimmerman-Martin shooting. Then remember what the press told you and how much you believed.

Return to today. Were your assumptions good predictors? For example did you assume three years ago that we would still be in a dire condition, or did you think our economy would be on a roll? Did OWS become the political force the Tea Party was? Did you believe it would?

Assuming you predicted different conditions than now exist, ask yourself why conservatives were right more often than you. What did they know that you didn’t know? Heh heh…

What we have here is a failure to communicate. I guess it depends on what your meaning of employed is. Does it mean bringing in the coin of the realm to the household? Sure. But that coin is turned into goods and services for the house: food, food preparation (eating out), paying for lawn mowing, paying for child care (daycare, babysitters, etc.), laundry. Some of it is hopefully saved for old age, but what is done with it then? It is turned into the exact same goods and services.

Which is of course exactly what the missus does: child care, food preparation, housecleaning, laundry – all things you would have to pay for if she did not do them.

Read some Thomas Sowell economics stuff. He states it perfectly: Physical money is merely an artifact that sets the relative value of various goods and services: it’s not of any real value in any real sense. Read that again. Its only function is to set relative value, so that you can efficiently trade your good/service for someone else’s good/service.

Which leads to the inevitable conclusion that the spouse who does not work *outside the home* is employed in every way equivalently to her/his husband who does.

Rutherford, I walked a way from my mortgage, screwing society over. I didn’t cause the Titanic to sink but I sure went Billy Zane on the life boats. I made a choice to screw Americans over for the sake of my family. Requiring said Americans to applaud my desicsion is a bit much. Conservatives don’t require perfection. They merely ask for a little acknowledgment of where our lunch truely comes from and a little responsibility. I will never get suckered into a government/dead beat bubble market again. This coumtry was born on the notion of second chances.

I think BiC used the term “wish-casting” to define the popular liberal view of reality. It’s a good one. When the intended outcome never occurs or is proved dead wrong, the justifications and pleas of “good intentions” and “you wouldn’t have done any better” are heaped on in ample measure.

I saw a portion of a documentary on what happens to doomsday cult members “the day after.” It’s no different.

Despite Obama’s pathetic record on growth and unemployment, and more importantly his unforgivable failure to even address the devastating debt crisis ahead, guys like Thor and Rutherford see him as a success. :roll:

On the events that libs think prove all of their beliefs in unexamined racism, right-wing hate mongering, and social injustice, they are universally wrong. They are so predictably wrong that it’s about all I need to know of Zimmerman to know he’s probably innocent. And the MSNBCers will label the whole thing a rounding success even if Zimmerman is acquitted, never pausing to see that they themselves perpetrated an incredible injustice.

Rutherford do you have anything deeper than the housewives don’t work thing?
I think you parrot something that you don’t fully explore,nor do the original speakers.
It is either that or your posts point is the simple stressing of word definitions.
Toss me something here R

fwiw: DR for you,whom I like, and even Pools,who I don’t like, I don’t bang either of you for the mortgage foreclosure stuff. Seems to me you both represent fairly textbook screwings from the system. I am not up to speed on the econs of poolmans zip but for you….it really is an ever evolving modern anthropology thing. America should be really concerned about how Detroit and a number of the Rust Belt communities are in the deep.
I didn’t like some of the POTUS’s ideas on modifications but on the other end I am a fervent supporter of the “ownership” society. I don’t know where the answer lies.

Alfie, I am confident Tex got it right. This is an inchoate effort to excuse the Rosen comments. Couching it as the right’s version of PC with a “move on, nothing to see here” is as thin as it appears.

There’s no other reason I can see that is raised as a topic of discussion, nor what possible response to it could be expected other than what was said. It is deja vu of Hillary’s “stay home and bake cookies.” The left would like to hold on to the premise (most appealing to it’s self-determined enlightenment), without having to stand behind the narrative that follows its revelation.

Of course, R seems to insist it’s something more. Although I’ll wager R will tell you “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,” he is capable of proving us all wrong if that is not the case.

Just a total aside here.
The media has jumped all in for Team Obama this weekend. I can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a half truth laden story that slants or fully and overtly drives pro-Obama.
Some jewels include how the Romney v Obama budgets are so different (ultimately they’re not) how unemployment rates in the “swing” states have improved (much like the national avg. we’re not counting those that have abandoned hope) and are good tidings for the O.
I honestly don’t care if you love or hate either of the candidates, either one is likely to be elected secondary to allowing complete fucking morons who buy into blatant lies cast votes.
Alas poor America, I knew ye well…

Actually sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Discussion of politically correct speech is always about SEMANTICS.

How this got interpreted as an attack on conservatives or a defense of Rosen shows what paranoid f*ckups a few of you are.

And specifically to PF, my landlord doesn’t view money as an abstract representation of value and she expects to get it top of every month. If my wife didn’t WORK we’d be out on the street and all my “househusband” duties would not be worth two cents.

THAT’s what this post is about … getting beyond the intellectual bullsh*t and talking about reality. Politically correct language obscures reality. It’s as simple as that.

Rabbit you don’t need to offer me any explanation about your mortgage decision. It’s none of my business and I’m not the one on this blog selectively taking potshots at folks who made your choice.

Not everyone is like Alfie who can put personal feelings aside when he evaluates your choice. For Tex, when folks he likes make the choice it’s bravo! If Tex doesn’t like you suddenly the choice is lousy.

R, I do have very big paws. I just can’t type on a touch screen. Sometimes I cant see what I am typing becuase the keyboard takes the whole screen up. The whole set up stifles my ability to express myself. I’m going to buy a new computer.

Rabbit I truly think you’d like the iPhone keyboard better. Go to an Apple store and try one out. Keyboard only obscures bottom half of screen. When you touch a “key” the letter gets bigger above your finger so you see for sure what you hit, and of course you can see what you’re typing in the text area. Last but not least, it’s got some pretty decent auto-complete/auto-correct features.

Well I don’t understand your ire R and not clear if anything has been aimed at me but I will tell you this. Comment #109 has been cut and pasted and filed to my desktop for future reference Rutherford. I dare say it smacks of a future live by the word die by the word scenario.

Phew. Now we know you have abandoned it. My introduction here was met with a charge of racism in the use of the term “black community.” All from the whitest guys I’ve ever encountered: Rutherford and G-chin.

So Limbaugh is off the hook and so is Juan Williams and those that dare utter a non PC comment.

Frankly, I was rooting for something more profound. But damn, this will be liberating.

Rutherford, you’ve got from the secondary toady to the ridiculous dupe. Are you starting to see subliminal messages in Simpson episodes too?

What do you mean you don’t have a liberal axe to grind? LOL! Buddy, you couldn’t pen a post that didn’t have a liberal axe to grind. You don’t say good morning without the intent of it being political. Everything you write is so transparently political. Like my religion and my wife are important to me, so is politics important to you.

What’s more, you can’t make a claim that Obama saved us from the brink either. By the time Bozo took the helm in January of 2009, it was abundantly clear, the financial talk of collapse was over. TARP or no TARP, there was no threat of run on banks, Lehman was four months old. The threat was over before even the election took place in October of 2008.

These are the facts:

From the day Obama took office, there has been a shrinkage of 3.4 million jobs. That is an easily measurable fact attested to by coordination of CBO and GAO .

Now, the only way that you can give Obama credit for saving us from the brink, is you’re going to have to convince each of us that 3.4 million working Americans have somehow volunteered not to work, their jobs were eliminated at termination of employment, and there has no influx/immigration of working adults into the system for 3 1/2 years. But that can’t be possible, because for the American economy to sustain a break even level of employment, about 290,000 jobs have to be created each month. The last 22 months, Obama has created about 143,000 private sector jobs a month. So the only way our unemployment rate could be going down would be either voluntarily retirement and the job eliminated, or we’ve been adding approximately 150,000 public sector jobs. But according to Obama and his lackeys, we’ve been eliminating public sector jobs over the last year. Obviously, the numbers aren’t jiving.

The reason the market is up, the reason the unemployment numbers are down is very simple – it’s called $5,000,000,000,000.00 in deficit. A large part of the cash driving the market is an influx of funny money; the unemployment rate is dropping because people are obviously falling off the rolls.

So Obama, wiping the slate clean from the day he walked into office, has added over $50,000.00 of debt to your real family net worth.

That’s not saving us from the brink. That’s a recipe for default. And that is the biggest reason Obama the Magnificent is in huge trouble.

So pal, if you want to win this election, you better find something Obama can actually brag about – because it is certainly not Obama’s record on the economy. And the next six months, I’m going to be giving as many people as possible a lesson in how really big failure Obama has been in ways the layman can understand.

Most people don’t understand $16,000,000,000,000.00 in debt. But like they can understand it now costs $80.00 to fill up their care, they they can understand they owe and additional $17,000.00 per person under Obama’s 3 1/2 year regime.

Rutherford, what this post is really about and what drew my ire was the fact that Maher, and to a lesser extent you (which surprised me), when you pull the curtain and the “wizards” are flipping their switches, both believe Ann Romney is a lesser woman for not working in a corporate job; a silver spooned, entitled woman.

That’s the unvarnished, liberal gospel – you liberals hold what used to be known as homemakers as lesser person and in contempt. Don’t tell me you don’t.

Bill Maher is a lowlife and frankly a highly paid dolt, who knows less about raising kids than he does Christianity. Maher preys on superficial, stereotyped, frankly stupid people who think themselves worldly. That’s laughable that you think Maher right about anything.

Ann Romney’s job was far more difficult than any 9-5 walk in the office. The whiter the collar, the easier the job has been my experience, especially when pay vs. effort measured.

So Limbaugh is off the hook and so is Juan Williams and those that dare utter a non PC comment.

Well that depends on what they say. Being politically incorrect simply for the sake of being rude is not what I’m talking about. I don’t recall what Juan said that got him fired from NPR but I do remember thinking he got a raw deal at the time. If I listened to Limbaugh on a regular basis I probably would find some of the non-PC things he says to be right on the money and I’d give him credit for the courage to say them. Since I don’t listen to him, the only time I hear about him is when he sticks his ample size foot in his ample size mouth.

I don’t think the original piece is full of “ire”. The thread is full of ire because some of you have been too thick to acknowledge the simple truth of the orginal piece, primarily because you’re dead set on making this another lib vs conservative debate.

Rosen’s comments were an epiphany about the differences in receiving a paycheck and being a “work at home” mom housewife.

Just to be crystal clear I fixed it for you. And no, I got no epiphany from Hillary Rosen. As the Rosengate debate went on, I just got tired of hearing housewives referred to as “women who work at home”. They don’t. It ain’t better, it ain’t worse … it’s different. Again, simple concept.

And for the record … for you reading-challenged dolts (you know who you are) I’ve made it clear in this thread that Bill Maher is no hero to me AND as I said to Raji, I should have tempered my support of his comment by saying that loads of women (and men) don’t leave the house at 7am and still work their ass off from a home office (earning money), so his comment was NOT 100% on the mark. I gave him a pass because I think he was focusing on traditional workers, not home office workers.

“when you pull the curtain and the “wizards” are flipping their switches, both believe Ann Romney is a lesser woman for not working in a corporate job; a silver spooned, entitled woman.”

Point well made, Tex.

Lesser woman, huh? ………I can see that. If homemakers’ work – having babies, for example – stops for ONE generation, all of humanity and all its works since the species began crumble into dust, and in a relatively short span of time (astronomically speaking) there will be no record on the earth that we ever existed.

That work could NOT possibly be as important as drawing a corporate paycheck.

My sympathiy for your friends El Tigre. A reminder of the tornadoes came this weekend when Joplin high school students had their prom in a building away from their still under construction school. Katy Perry contributed and raised money for the high school students.

The Democrats know their record of success is as flimsy as Obama’s resume when he ran. They wittingly or unwittingly are using Saul Alynsky rules to isloate Romney and his allies by portraying them as different from the rest of us. Ann Romney was supposed to look like a pampered woman so rich she couldn’t understand problems of average people.

Sarah Fluke illustrated the Republican non -existent “war against women”, while the only war is liberals attacks against conservative women. The Zimmerman-Martin case would enflame blacks and keep them in the fold. It would also be an opportunity to weaken the Second Amendment since Fast and Furious was afailure.

Democrats used the Romney’s dog to illustrate a rich family’s un caring attitude, but a blogger found Obama’s account of eating dogs. Montana’s governor saying Romney’s father’s being raised in a Polygamious comune in Mexico fell flat when another blogger wrote that Obama’s father had multiple wives and the family practiced polygamy for generations.

Democrats largely failed because of the internet, the press’s overplaying their hand, and unknown Romney campaign retaliation. I believe they will attack Romney’s religion eventually. If they do, I am sure the opposition will cite the racist, black separatist Reverand Wright and the racist profssor Obama defended when he was in University.

They tried the silver spoon theme, but Ann Coulter countered with a silver affirmative action spoon.

Bush deserves most of the credit for approving measures to save our economy. Obama continued the Bush policy. After he became president, he as Tex wrote implemented policies for short term gain and long term destruction.

I give you the benefit of the doubt, Rutherford. You heard the Rosen statement and the reaction. You remember the debate which fired up during the highth of the feminist movement and thought “what am I going to write about next? I know, I will write about the home maker-job holding woman dichotomy. That will start an argument.”

Dr Ernie Goss a University of Nebraska economist said on KFAB that the real unemplyoment rate is about 16 to 17%. We won’t default because the government can print money. States like California may default.

Iowa’s unemployment rate at 5.1% is the fifth lowest in the nation, and Nebraska’s is even better. Moreover the football Lingere League has franchised a team in Omaha.

“The thread is full of ire because some of you have been too thick to acknowledge the simple truth of the original piece, primarily because you’re dead set on making this another lib vs conservative debate.”

No. We’re all scratching our heads. Everyone is looking for a point worthy of discussion. You are most vociferous if all you want is the first and last word on something you claim is a just an observation/truism.

Nothing. Because the daughters are 3/4 black, they experience prejudice and no power. Therefore, because they are 75% black, the daughters are by default achievers – with or without work outside the home, because work inside the home doesn’t count as work; probably experiencing hate crime too. :wink:

Dear leader should have his inspirational platitudes printed and handed to school kids and others as gifts. The book should be small enough for a pocket or purse. It should be easy to see, maybe red with a catchy title like “Thoughts of President Obama.” “It would catch on in a flash.”

Bush deserves most of the credit for approving measures to save our economy.

This is too rich. The small gains our economy has made, plus its not going off the cliff is now the good work of the man who destroyed the economy with two unpaid for wars and a huge tax break for the rich? James, you cannot be serious!

Is it your position that the point of this post was to simply state the difference between housewife and employed wife?

Essentially, yes. I got tired of hearing this constant (and ultimately condescending) meme of pure housewives “working at home”. Quite frankly,when you redefine what a housewife does, you invalidate what a housewife does. What she does has value without distorting her actual contribution.

Are you really so amazed that folks (specifically from the Right) have an issue with the Lefts overall framing of the topic,both as it has currently been put forth let alone historically?

I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here in terms of framing but I have acknowledged from the start that Hillary Rosen stepped in it big-time. The beautiful thing about Romney is that he shows his disengagement with “the common man” every time he opens his mouth. There is NO need for liberals to go there. It’s self-evident. Women, for the most part, tend to be more empathetic. Ann is Mitt’s good-will ambassador to the human race. :-)

And before anyone else goes there … NO, Obama is NOT God’s gift to populism. Obama is fairly self-involved. I think one of the funniest things to come out of this rivalry will be the realization of just how similar these two men (Obama and Romney) are.

Rutherford, you are repeating a lie. Were you not paying attention when we descussed how the economy crashed? Bush approved of TARP and Obama continued the program after he was elected.

I repeat, Bush did not crash the economy. Democrats, including Obama share much of the blame. Our recovery is the most anemic since the Great Depression for a reason. FDR also failed.

The Omaha economist I quoted earlier this morning says the effective unemployment rate is 16 to 17%. Half of our college graduates are unemployed or under employed.

Obama plans to gut Medicare Advantage a year after the election, but he will use an $8 billion slush fund to be spent as a pilot project to maintain the programs until late next year to hide his malfeasance from old people.

Is Bush Obama’s puppet master?

Its true a lie told often enough is accepted by the gullible and ignorant, but don’t tell me the sky is green when it is not.

Obama also shows his disengement with the common man when his teleprompter and writers desert him. His background and associates are at least as exotic as Romney’s but the press covers for Obama. Neither man is one of “us.”

That is a seperate issue from who can best lead this country. Both men have records as administrators, and who has a plan more likely to succeed is what matters.

The only thing the Bush/Obama governments did to destroy the economy was to look the other way. Our unregulated financial industry had free rein in tumbling down this “House” of cards. Apparently no one in government knew how to put Humpty Dumpty back again.

“No. We’re all scratching our heads. Everyone is looking for a point worthy of discussion.’ – R

No you’re not, you are looking for me. So here goes.

James, no one was forced to give anyone a loan. They were simply restricted from denying a loan purely by address. And the rate of default on lower end loans was lower than the rate on higher dollar loans, because that is where the speculation was.

Now, Sarah promised me that Obama’s only past experience was as a community organizer, a do-nothing know-nothing position. Now you are telling me that he actually was in the catbird seat, driving a diabolical plan for global economic meltdown?

James, my parable was not a lie. And I have researched it, intently. The man that took the parking brake off represents everyone in DC that could have changed how investment banking was infecting the rest of our financial structure. This includes Clinton and Newt (Glass-Steagal), Bush (SEC restrictions loosened), Republicant’s that controlled the House and Senate for 12 years 95-07, including McCain, Boehner and McConnell. The Dems that took control in 07, (all they wanted to talk about was Rumsfeld and the war) plenty of blame to go around. The point is looking forward, Romney wants to take us right back to the way it was done before, and he expects a different result with no explanation why.

But if you don’t believe me, read this report and see for yourself. The excerpt below is their conclusion, but please read the whole thing. I’ve offered it to these guys before, but just like any fact that doesn’t fit their opinion, they ignore it.

“Two key points emerge from all of our analysis of the available data. First, only a small portion of subprime mortgage originations are related to the CRA. Second, CRA- related loans appear to perform comparably to other types of subprime loans. Taken together, as I stated earlier, we believe that the available evidence runs counter to the contention that the CRA contributed in any substantive way to the current mortgage crisis.”

Raji I slightly disagree. Iraq and Afghanistan were costly and not budgeted. To make matters worse, if I am not mistaken, for the first time in history we were at war and we CUT taxes. In fact, we were told to go shopping at the mall. No sacrifice was expected of anyone. That approach cannot be laid at the feet of Obama.

Yeah, that’s what Obama is. Our good shepherd. And Michelle is our example of the Good Samaritan. When she’s not jetting off on the taxpayer dole to Monaco. A truly exemplary “christian” couple with Rev. Jeremiah the Levi priest. They don’t allow the appropriate emoticon on WordPress.

I think that comment, without intending to, pretty much summarizes why I truly do find liberalism a mental disorder.

Perhaps that is why Obama is always comparing himself to Lincoln, Roosevelt and Reagan.

——

Raji is right. The real crime of our government concerning the economic meltdown was its encouragement and complete lack of accountability. And the biggest benefactors of the meltdown from the housing industry – mortgage donors. Virtually everyone a big Dimocratic donor. Every one Thor. Why do you continue to ignore that little fact?

And I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt men like Chris Dodd and Barney Frank played a large part in that encouragement. Neither was Republican.

I’m also tickled that Rutherford and Thor have bought into the Obama saved us from the brink. Like “jobs save” and “citizens” touched, we’ll see how that plays here in about six months.

We are in the year four of our lord, when darkness was made light, the seas gently receded, and the planet cooled. In the space of 24 hours in January 2009 the world was turned upside down: massive deficits were no longer “unpatriotic”; 5% (heck, even 9%) unemployment was no longer to be seen as a “jobless recovery”; $4 plus gasoline no longer would become “intolerable.” Filibusters suddenly became ossified obstructionism. Recess appointments were now quite legitimate; lecturing the media about the myth of objective fairness was salutary. Pay-for-play time with the president was consulting; attacking the “unelected” courts was progressive. Voter fraud was not thugs eyeing polling monitors with clubs, but officials asking voters to present a picture ID—and mentioning any of these inconsistencies or writing about the Trostkyzation of American life was either racism or Palinism.

Around March 2008, the Ministry of Truth had issued new edicts about campaign financing, big Wall Street money, and the supposedly pernicious role of contributions: all bad if Bush trumped Kerry, all now good if Obama trumped McCain. So when Obama became the first candidate in the history of the law to renounce public campaign financing in order to shake down $1 billion, there was silence. The Left never really worried about Big Money, but only if more Big Money went to conservatives than to themselves. (Consider the current shameless money grubbing of Jon Corzine to raise cash for Obama after Corzine’s looting of thousands of individuals’ lifetime investments, or the shrillness over Mitt Romney’s supposed mansion in La Jolla juxtaposed to the prior silence about the Kerry mansions, the multiple Gore residences, or “John’s room,” as in the huge and crass Edwards estate.) What was interesting about Hilary Rosen was not her stupid thoughts on Ann Romney, but her cursus honorum that led to hired-gun riches by parlaying political contacts into commerce ~ VDH

Thankyou, Rutherford. It is one of my favorite songs too, and too sad for me to be in the mood for arguing. We all know people in that song.

thor, I’m sorry I don’t have the time or inclination ( I should have read your post before listening to the song.) to argue with you now. I have work to do, but I will do it later. I also haven’t read your link, yet.

I misunderstood you earlier. I thought the bus driver was Bush.

The original intent of the law was good–to stop redlining by neighborhood. Greed and unrealistic expectations spread through the system from the borrows on up.

I witnessed first hand how people were persuaded by bankers and circumstance to borrow on dreams instead of reality. Free will let them borrow, but their unrealistic views of the world persuaded them to place themselves in untenable positions. My experience was with the farm depression of the seventies and eighties. As in John Melencamp’s “Blood on the Plow, ” our county court house lawn had crosses for the farms which went broke. There seems to be little difference between what happened then and the fate of the housing bubble.

The government did pressure banks to loan money to vulnerable clients. Men in black suits visited every bank in our county and perused the books to determine how many poor people had loans. One bank owner objected. He said he knew better than the government who were credit worthy and who were not. The men in black suggested he travel with them to Omaha and discuss the matter in more detail. That happened. Our banker had no reason to lie to me.

I didn’t say Obama was in the cat bird seat orchestrating a plan to destroy our economy. He was a hapless rube who like many others didn’t know what he was doing. Obama helped ACORN in a lawsuit for a change in loan policy, and he trained the organization on how to organize and put pressure on banks and other entities. He also voted to withhold extra over site of Fannie and Freddie. Obama and his allies didn’t realize the potential danger. They were trying to help poor people while helping themselves.

Bush and the Republicans recognized the danger, and they tried to stop it, but the bubble also benefited Republicans.

Maybe your link witl change my mind, but the parable as I understand it is still a lie. “Walking on a Wire” expresses my opinion well. “you told the truth, but you’re still a liar.” Not you personally, of course. I also got carried away. I didn’t plan on such a long post.

It began when we turned the responsibility of our lives over to others.

Today we call it government and made it a science. There are course studies in it, with degrees and experts, even. The more we make of it, the more convoluted it gets. We keep trying to patch over and fix what we have, thinking we can’t possibly scrap what we’ve created. Like it was a worthy investment. :roll:

Yeah it’s the liberals fault. Or the conservatives. They’re the culprits. Truth is, too many of those in government profit from it just like it is. It’s a gravy train and we (dems, repubs, indies) keep laying track.

It’s human nature, folks. Unless we simplify and make it transparent, the psychopaths will keep riding us until we drop. Then they mount our kids. It’s slavery. Call it any other nuanced noun, and you are only defining its degree.

Right now the folks that are enslaving us are printing more dollars to inflate the value of the euro so they can get paid for the debt they marketed to the Europeans folk. WE, you and me, are paying their debts and making the billionaires richer.

Who really gives a shit if that’s liberal or conservative. It’s fucked and we need to change it. Pronto! The sooner the better.

thor, you have given us a speech by Randal S. Kroszner, and his purpose was to defend the Federal Reserve System. Do you really expect me to change my mind after reading a biased speaker?
No empirical evidence? Come on. I just cited empirical evidence government minions who pressured our local banks. I respect your intelligence, and that effort is beneath you.

The speaker correctly said many of the failed loans were by middle and upper class families. They suffered from the same misconceptions as the poor. The speaker said a majority of the loans were safe. It only took a relatively small number of loans to ruin the system, especially when they were converted into other financial packages and unloaded repeatedly around the world. We had a multiplier effect which drove emotions. Greed turned to fear and dispair which sent the market down.

That parody is still a lie.

You want more empirical evidence? Here it is. .

Stanly Kurtz researched the crash in 2008. One of his articles is titled “Planting Seeds of Disaster” for National Review on line 2008.

“You’ve got only a couple of thousand bucks in the bank. Your job pays you dog food wages. Your credit history has been bent, stapled and mutilated. You declared bankruptcy in 1989. Don’t despair. You can still buy a house.” April 1995 in the Chicago Sun Times. The writer directed prospective home-buyers with bad profiles to a group of community organizers called ACORN.

“I’ve already told the story of Obama’s close ties to ACORN leader Madeline Talbott who personally led Chicago ACORN’s campaign to intimidate banks into making high-risk loans to low-credit customers.”

“ACORN was no side show. On the contrary using CRA and ties to sympathetic congressional Democrats, ACORN succeeded in drawing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into the very policies that led to the current disaster. ”

You say you have heavily researched the crash. If you haven’t read Stanley Kurtz’s study you aren’t finished yet. He worked very hard to get documents the various organizations didn’t want publicized. Once you have looked at Kurtz you can compare it with sources you already know.

I agree with much of what you wrote Poolman. We are on owr way to a king if we don’t stop our tragectory. Conservatives and llberals have gotten us here, but there is a difference this time.

Obama’s allies are not conventional liberals. They are leading us to perdition, and we need a Romney victory to slow them. For example, if Obama wins, Medicare Advantage will likely be gone or decimated within a year or so. I told you about it in a previous comment. Obama has little taste in curbing spending.

A paralle race in France has forced Sarkozy into a run off with a socialist. Many voters are so disgusted they don’t believe there is much difference between the two men. Financial markets disagree. If Holland the socialist wins France may suffer economically and the rest of us would too. A growing rightist party showed surprising strenghth and an unknown number of their votes will go to Sarkozy.

James, do you think the banks reluctantly made these loans becuase of guys in black suites?

I don’t buy it.

The banks loved making all those crazy ass loans. What did they have to lose? If things go south, (which they did) they all held grenades to the neck of global finance. Win. Win. Mutually ensured destruction ensured a bail out.

While I know for a fact the idiot liberals loved this unsustainable charade, I highly doubt clandestine government pressure was a root cause

Well, I was a little reluctant to post the third, but I really couldn’t find a Simpsons’ clip that expressed the same thing. Sorry. I am betting, though, if it was Magilla posting you wouldn’t have said dick.

Conservatives and llberals have gotten us here, but there is a difference this time.

You do realize NATO pretty much runs us now, right? They were given the full reign last administration and this one has only aided the transfer of power. Panetta pointed it out. They don’t take orders from the POTUS or Congress.

Banksters are the root of all evil. They are the ones bribing our “leaders” and taking this nation and all the rest of them down. They pay off dems and repubs all the same. The conned us into establishing the FED and income tax so they could steal from us, just as they have continually been doing for the past century.

Dead rabbit. Speaking only for our region, “no.” They were burned during the farm recession. Without the recession, my answer would be “yes.” Our bank fit the desired; lending profile, but most of the banking people resented the government intrusion. I suspect the implied pressure did influence some loans.

The seventies were a different story. Bankers were practically giving money away. Our banker and my father in law told me I MUST buy a farm for sale. After all, I fit the profile of what writers called “young tigers”. I rented some extra land instead.

I asked for a $70,000 line of credit. Our bank official said surely I needed more. Why not $100,000 or even $125,000? Before the bubble burst, old junk oil cans sold for $5.00 or more apiece. A neighbor bought a nice combine at auction for $90,000 when it was worth $45,000. it took him under.

I made a similiarly stupid purchase on a smaller scale. I paid $800 for a tractor cab at auction when it was worth $350.

According to Kurtz, banks were pressured into changing lending practices if they planned to merge. They, their customers, and realtors took advantage of easy money and false assumptions. Only a relatively few were truly bad loans, either purchased under duress, deception or false hope. It only took a few.

I’m sorry to for such a long trip down memory lane, but I believe what I saw mimiced the psychology leading us to the housing bubble.

James, I never really thought of a regional aspect to it. That is an interesting take.

That being said, what teeth did this intrusion have? The banks’ choices are dictated by law and profit. It just seems unreasonable to me that a couple visits by fed goons would have any effect. These are institutions so brazen they hired firms to falsify documents. They did everything they could to make sure the refi legislation was a joke (not that I blame them)

In fact, as I have said before here, the housing crisis didn’t cause the finacial collapse.

It was the credit defualt swaps that made something akin to the dot com bust into a catastrophe.

I’m only taking our banker’s word for it. There was no direct duress, and no teeth, only gums. “We think you might consider loaning money to someone like that. They need a chance too.” A government representative’s actions even without words by taking the trouble to visit little podunk banks would have exerted some encouragement on banks to loan money, even if there were no direct orders.

The recession had thinned the herd of plunging borrowers and it also wiped out some banks. Many became chains as larger ones purchased them after they failed. Ours is the only independent bank remaining in our county, I think. Few were willing to make the same mistake twice. The same attitude predominated with implement dealers and farm Cooperatives during the nineties and oos. .

Agriculture is in another bubble. Land- owning farmers are multi- milionaires on paper, but their balance sheets are not over blown with debt as they were before our crash. Auctioneers are having trouble finding farms to sell, and when they do, many farmers make the down payments in cash. Balloon contracts were the downfall of many borrowers, and I don’t think they are used as often as they were around here. Profit margins have slipped a little, and that is a good thing.

Our part of the country was largely spared the worst of the recession, and one reason is rememberance of times past. Another is that bi coastal extremes usually pass us by.

On the other hand, had we and our bankers not lived through the hard times, I suspect those visits and other pressure would have encouraged bankers to loan more money than they should have. After all, the rules of economics had been canceled, and there was no way down.

I agree, the housing crisis didn’t cause the financial melt down, but it contributed to it. I also agree about the credit default swaps. I believe their effects reached through Europe too.

Realtors also contributed. They lied to their clients and themeslves while buyers lied to them. It was a mutal lying society ruled by greed.

The craziest thing about the financial meltdown was the lack of rule of law. TARP was implemented outside the rule of law. The massive concerted effort to falsified documents went completely on punished. Deadbeats were stripping homes ripping all the copper. Motherfuckers living rent free for years. amazing.

Magilla Gorilla. I don’t know if G’s posted here since James has, but that’s my pet name for him. He use to post multiple videos, often more than 3. I know the more videos that are posted, the slower it is to load. It makes for cranky conservatives. :wink:

Quick update on The800lbGorilla … his lack of presence here hasn’t been for a lack of trying. He’s written me offline indicating that WordPress is giving him major heartburn not letting him login to my site for comments or even his own site to post blog articles. I’ve tried to help him but to no avail. I don’t know what’s going on.

I also pointed him toward Alfie’s Twitter address so he might reach out to Alfie for help. I know the whole WP password thing threw a lot of people for a loop. Everyone but Gorilla seems to have survived.

I have posted on only two sites at a time. The other one is a message board which was replaced by an alternate site after server problems. I had stayed logged in so I didn’t need to remember my password. The alternate site wouldn’t let me in, and it wouldn’t give me a new password.

The only person I have e mail contact with tried to help. She wondered if the new pass word was in our spam box. Something happened with our computer, and the dates end at 2007. She said several people had to register under new names to get in. It didn’t work for me.

My brother registered and he has presumably taken my place. However, I have been too busy and distracted to try a new e mail address or to even visit the site for months.

Tex – thanks for the link. I have a running email battle with a friend of my wife’s that started with the cartoon of the two racial ambulance-chasers’ disappearing when they wished for an end to racial strife. Your link this morning put her over the edge. Now she’s mad at me.

Limbaugh is absolutely right about the Left’s having no sense of humor. She’s a good egg, but it is baffling how rigid the Left’s thought processes are. I can only gouge her a little and she’s furious with me, with thinly veiled – and overt – references to my racism, etc. I shouldn’t poke at her I guess…

Funny, really. Once one gets a worldview, it is amazing how one can distort ANY data to fit it, while distorting any irrefutable opposing data as showing what a low-life the holder of that view is.

Tex, the only big change I’ve noticed is the comments box and that does indeed suck. I’m also noticing that my spell check which always used to be on has to be turned on manually almost every comment. :-(

No there really isn’t. We are all trapped in the prison of our personal experience.

Brief anecdote: many years ago when I attended one of my college reunions, I ended up hanging out with some folks whom I knew back in the day but never socialized with. We had a pretty good time and I thought to myself later would my life have gone in a different direction had I been friends with these folks back in college instead of the folks I chose back then?

Our personal experience puts us on a certain path, both in thought process and in future experiences. The more different types of people we know the closer we can get to the “truth” about our fellow man. The more boxed in our social life, the more limited our view. I’m not preaching here …. my view is very limited. The college reunion experience taught me that and unfortunately not much has changed since then.

Hate transference and acts of “street justice”, isn’t a new phenomenon. We saw it after 9/11. It “justified” our bombing Afghanistan’s countryside and killing thousands of civilians and our overall violence toward all things Muslim. We recently saw it there in the killing and burning of civilians, mostly women and children.

It was common in Vietnam and during WWII with our government even providing internment camps for Japanese and oriental citizens.

Acts of vengeance. Payback’s a bitch.

The media owns this one. Anything that occurs to “get justice for Trayvon™” needs to point back to the media and its whores that made this a controversial and international case.

This latest case in Mobile apparently only has the one witness, Owen’s sister, so it can’t be corroborated by multiple sources. And apparently Owens instigated it with whatever he told the “kids” playing basketball in the street. It’s likely we will never know what really ensued. Mobile is notorious for racial tension and violence, even before Trayvon™.

“thor, you have given us a speech by Randal S. Kroszner, and his purpose was to defend the Federal Reserve System. Do you really expect me to change my mind after reading a biased speaker?” James

James, James, James. This is not a political speech. This is the summary presentation of a study commissioned by the FED and Kroszner, as a Board Governor, gave the presentation. The study itself was conducted by staff at all 12 Fed banks. Surely you at least made it through the first two paragraphs where that information was given.

You give me anecdotal evidence of men in black. I give you an in depth study with facts. Please read it, again if necessary. And BTW, Kroszner was appointed and signed of on by Bush and a Republican controlled congress, hardly a minion of ACORN or the left. I know you believe what you are saying, here is your chance to correct your perception. Please don’t be a Tex, take the opportunity.

R – don’t worry about being a bit cloistered. You have a pretty broad view, to my eye, even if it has all been gleaned from experiences on the Internet.

It is hard to get that open view of the world that makes one willing to admit flaws in his thinking and accept a better argument made by someone else. Hope to be able to freely do that one day. I have to tell you though, I’m no friend of the hardshell conservatives, but I find them far more willing to listen to opposing views than I ever found liberals. Maybe it’s just me; I could be wrong.

“The point is looking forward, Romney wants to take us right back to the way it was done before, and he expects a different result with no explanation why.”
Back that up. – ET

Romney endorses extending the Bush tax cuts, eliminating regulations, and propping up the DOD by ending Medicare and cutting into other social programs, all while still not eliminating the deficit. (Ryan budgets 1 and 1.1) He actually goes beyond Bush in endorsing the end of collective bargaining. Remember, he’s not just conservative, he’s severely conservative.

“Corporations are people my friend.”

BTW, didn’t Romney get a little flack for firing an illegal? That wasn’t someone that was hired to “help” that awesome, worn-to-the-bone, don’t-tell-me-it-isn’t-work, keeping-it-in-the-real-world Ann was it?

There ET, I connected it to the housewife thingy so you won’t have to blow any more coffee out your nose. ;)

You keep count Tex. Lord knows we wouldn’t want you to start thinking that most blacks are decent law abiding people.

The last time I heard of a black man being lynched by a group of white thugs, they sentenced the three white men – two of them to death and one to life in prison.

Just pointing out the double standard that exists, and pointing to the boiling cauldron.

There’s a widely known fact about my “European” people, Rutherford. Those “European-Americans.” Either you have failed to recognize it, or choose to ignore it. You know, the white civilization that formed the Western world you live?

For the most part, they have been far and away the most civilized, peaceful, innovative people on the planet – as peaceful as fallible people can be anyway. There have been millions killed in thousands of wars through time, but their record of humanity still exceeds all.

However, reading from the historical record, when they have been pushed to the brink and threatened, when they’ve run out of patience or feel they’ve been injuriously aggrieved, they also have the most barbaric, atrocious. ingenious means of facilitating the most brutal, inhumane forms of punishment – from holocausts, to torture chambers, to Roman legions. And they generally don’t quit until everything lay in waste.

That’s not a threat – it’s a fact. And I see a time coming when pinky says, “Game on mofo – we’ve tolerated this shit about long enough.” It’s getting pretty close from what I’ve gathered, though I can’t say for sure.

Most blacks? Perhaps half are decent and law abiding. Some like you are law abiding. :smile: But there’s quite a few really bad apples from the looks of it in my corner of the house and the prison yards. White guilt looks to just about have run its course. If you know what I mean.

Don’t fret. There’s going to be a lot of white liberals joining the ass kicking. :twisted: They are the ones I’m most interested in administering due justice.

thor, I know Kroszner was giving an oral report. I have been in his position on a much smaller scale, and I know nuance when I see it. I have used it to down play disagreeable information without ignoring it. In that respect politics were involved.

I like Tex. I think he has a way with words few do. But I will never be Tex. I like you too. I will irritate you with my stuborness at times, but I will always be myself.

You know some of my past. Authority figures like Kroszner lied to me and put me in harm’s way. Therefore, I don’t trust him. I barely trust myself, because I repressed a memory until June 23, 1973. I am physically and economically alive due to lack of trust, and it is too late for me to change now..

I am a speed reader and reached the bottom of the page.

“We found that delinquency rates were high in all neighborhood income groups, and the related CRA-related subprime lending and other subprime lending cannot lie at the root of recent market turmoil.” That sounds reasonable to me. But why were the delinquency rates high?

60% of the loans went to high income customers. No problem there either. We know many home owners were using homes as ATM machines and flipping them as fast as possible. Many of the 40% were low income people who didn’t have a chance but filled an agenda. They were only numbers to banks and the government.

Only six percent of the higher priced loans extended to poor people came from the CRA. So, that puts them in the clear. But what about the rest?

The study showed that a large number of loans by all income groups were delinquent. That cast further doubt that the CRA could have contributed to the sub prime crisis. That was a subjective conclusion and it didn’t address the other loans not directly associated with the CRA.

“… many neighborhoods that are currently not the focus of the CRA are experiencing great difficulties…” Why? Kroszer didn’t suggest reasons because they were not the CRA’s problem. His main goal was to exonerate the CRA, and he did a good job, but he did not address the other bad loans.

The men in black may have been a local phenonimon or nation-wide. I don’t know. I do know they made a big impression on our local banks though no one ordered them to do anything. They also fit with Janet Reno’s and others in the Clinton administration who allegedly pressured banks to ease their loan requirements.

“… I believe the CRA is an important model for designing incentives that motivate private sector involvement to meet community needs…” Exactly.

A network television show interviewed people who had lied about their incomes to get mortgages and relaters who had lied on applications to get loans approved.

The speech is dated on December 3, 2008, A lot happened after that time. Many more people lost their homes.

I don’t fully trust the Stanley Kurtz articles either, but they fit better with other information about the lax loaning practices I’ve read about. Thus, I still believe the overly simplistic parable is still a iie.

Next, Thor will be telling us that Countrywide Financial Corp. was tied to the hip of Phil Gramm and the Republican Party, and Fannie was a victim of circumstance.

Oh, and HUD Declaration of Fair Lending Principles and Practices was the greatest thing since sliced bread, opening the door to vast numbers of unfortunate being homeowners – and that’s always a good thing.

Thor suffers from congenital perception and confirmation bias. Don’t believe me, peruse his feckless blog and count the distortions, deflections, mendacity, and skewed stats – a virtual smorgasbord of failed liberal finance held up as a national monument.

Tex is right. I made the point when I first arrived. Asians Caucasions from Arabs to Scandinavians have directly and indirectly caused more people to die in recent history than any other race. They have also been responsiblle for much of the civilizatioin we now enjoy.

Public radio had a discussion about a possible cooling trend around the Atlantic if global warming diverted the Gulf Stream. A man said there is nothing more dangerous than irritable armed Europeans who are hungry.

50% is the best you can do? OK since we’re mixing apples and oranges (decent and law abiding), let’s separate them. If we take the false measurement of incarcerated people, whites appear to be more law abiding. Let’s throw that one out.

Let’s limit ourselves to folks who keep themselves out of jail. You’re now telling me more whites proportionately are “decent” than blacks? Do you know you sound more like Archie Bunker every day … and hell, by the time All in the Family ended, even Archie became a bit enlightened.

Note to Alfie … I’m an idiot .. sorry wasn’t following links which is why your CRA went over my head.

Now that I’m on the same page … and maybe this is not what you’re asking … I support the notion of removing ridiculous barriers to home ownership. The question is … what is ridiculous. What is the benefit of giving a home loan to a family that is a high risk in terms of payback?

Home loans should be granted on a purely mathematical basis that optimizes the odds of the loan being repaid. Race, gender, sexual orientation need to be out of the picture. Stick to the numbers and render the decision based on that.

I’m not familiar with the in’s and out’s of the CRA but I assume it was not as numbers driven as it should have been.

This really isn’t rocket science folks. HUMANS are violent when they perceive a threat. Skin color has not a damn thing to do with it. Nor does nationality. You never hear about the Swiss or the Canadians cracking heads but I’m quite sure under the right wrong circumstances they’d try to beat the crap out of “the enemy”.

His deal was that the Beatles’ song, Helter Skelter, foretold of a race war. He planned with his murders to trigger it. The blacks, hippies and others would rise up and take over the country from the oppressive majority, as I recall…

Ah, here we go. I was a little fuzzy in my recollection.

“In its final form, which was reached by mid-February 1969,[6] the scenario had Manson as not only the war’s ultimate beneficiary but its musical cause. He and the Family would create an album with songs whose messages concerning the war would be as subtle as those he had heard in songs of The Beatles.[3][7] More than merely foretell the conflict, this would trigger it; for, in instructing “the young love,”[8] America’s white youth, to join the Family, it would draw the young, white female hippies out of San Francisco’s Haight-Ashbury.[6][9][10] Black men, thus deprived of the white women whom the political changes of the 1960s had made sexually available to them, would be without an outlet for their frustrations and would lash out in violent crimes against whites.[10][11] A resultant murderous rampage against blacks by frightened whites would then be exploited by militant blacks to provoke an internecine war of near-extermination between racist and non-racist whites over blacks’ treatment. Then the militant blacks would arise to sneakily finish off the few whites they would know to have survived; indeed, they would kill off all non-blacks.[12][13][14]
In this holocaust, the members of the enlarged Family would have little to fear; they would wait out the war in a secret city that was underneath Death Valley that they would reach through a hole in the ground. As the only actual remaining whites upon the race war’s true conclusion, they would emerge from underground to rule the now-satisfied blacks, who, as the vision went, would be incapable of running the world; Manson “would scratch [the black man’s] fuzzy head and kick him in the butt and tell him to go pick the cotton and go be a good nigger….” — Wikipedia…

I just read a great description of people explaining whether Obama is simply incompetent, impotent or both. And I read this description:

Omniincompetent Obama. :lol:

————-

Pfesser, I can only speak for my little world which stretches across a handful of red, South and Southwest states, but even before Obama was elected President, I sensed that white America had pretty much given up on Black America – the olive branch offered since the 70s had became (for the most part) a club in which white America was beat over the head with a host of demands and accusations. That’s a very broad statement that naturally doesn’t apply to the Rutherford’s of the world – but facts are facts – Rutherford is not the norm.

Demands for reparations, false charges of bigotry, affirmative action, quota impositions, abrogation of personal responsibility, race pimps as national spokespersons, abject stupid and obvious black racism of the Black Caucus and NAACP, double standards and duplicity, political correctness. You know and understand so there is no need to delve further.

Ironically, I think Obama was looked at by many in White America the last best hope for honest dialogue about race and division which I believe helped him immensely in his election of 2008. Little did many whites realize Obama wasn’t the cure but a large part of the problem. Why White America didn’t realize that after the truth of Obama’s past, his closest association, his community activism in the bluest, most corrupt city in the nation, his church affiliation led by a clear black racist who baptized Obama’s own daughters, I never could understand and attributed to cognitive dissonance and a measure of “hope.” Perhaps I was wrong – I wasn’t.

I had told Rutherford before Obama ever took office that my biggest fear of a black President, wasn’t that he succeeded which would benefit all of us, but that he failed. Obama has been an EPIC failure. Worse, his appointments have demonstrated a personal pent up disdain of large swaths of this country – Eric Holder and Van Jones being only two of the more prominent voices that are clearly anti-American and anti-white.

This is only my opinion, but I have come to the conclusion Obama is doing exactly what he intended – radical transformation. Only the transformation hasn’t been for the better and possibly irreparably damaged the country and reputation which has at least in part surfaced a tension I always suspected there.

I go places now where discussion of Obama was hushed or off limits four years ago. Even in my dentist office today, politics was being discussed, Trayvon Martin was being discussed, Obama was being discussed and harshly criticized. The utter disdain for what is going on, at least the perception of white, mostly professional community believing Trayvon Martin is simply an excuse is troubling to say the least and palpable.

It’s as if Obama has decided his only path to victory must come at such division, the entire nation is distracted from his record and looks to him to bring some peaceful solution to a simmering war.

Let’s face it. Obama can not run on his record for anyone being the least bit objective. And since I have concluded long ago, Obama a malignant narcissist unable or unwilling to cope with defeat, I do not put one thing beyond or beneath him to win at any cost.

Trayvon Martin made for a convenient excuse to push all the buttons.

Not Charles Manson – but ironically, it might end with the same conclusion.

You’re now telling me more whites proportionately are “decent” than blacks? Do you know you sound more like Archie Bunker every day … and hell, by the time All in the Family ended, even Archie became a bit enlightened.

:lol: Point taken, old friend.

But Rutherford – after Obama, I’m beginning to feel more like Archie Bunker every day. Ever given thought to the chance Archie was right?

Come on Rutherford. Let’s be honest and talk like men. People associate with those they are most comfortable. There’s a handful of blacks in this world (you would be one) that I wouldn’t feel guarded about the subject of conversation at hand. But that certainly wouldn’t hold in generality.

Come on, man. Look at the spokespeople of Black America who have freely been elected or chosen to lead and convict of for lack of a better term. You mean to tell me that you find Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, Je$$e Jack$on, and the Black Caucus anomalies?

If so, give me their Good Samaritan, Jesus loving equivalent in good standing.

For everyone you can provide, I’ll provide an equal number of Conservative blacks like Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Thomas Sewell, Walter Williams that are vilified in the most insidious ways possible – not by White America but by Black America.

Rutherford, judging from the Omaha and Sioux City far more than 50% of blacks are decent and Christian people. Their society has deteriorated as the white culture has also begun to fall apart. The bad seeds intimidate the others into forgetfullness after crimes.

Canadians and Swiss have been violent in the past. Blacks and Asians have slaughered each other with millions killed. Several thousand years ago, whites were beseiged and in retreat as Asians advanced into Caucasian strongholds.

Technology and an aggressive culture turned the tables. So, you have a point that caucasian violence may be situational.

This doesn’t mean much, but I have to tell someone. Time Magazine reported that heavy metal is most popular in Scandinavia because their Viking and pagen cultures are in tune with the music.

If any “wars” break out in this country it will be over economics, not race. The big question is if Romney is elected and goes the full throttle austerity route, will we see what happened in Great Britain? Will there be riots in the streets?

Let’s face it, there’s been tension between black and white forever in this country and but for the occasional isolated Rodney King race riot, things stay relatively calm. What our country hasn’t seen yet is a Fed forcing them to sacrifice. When that happens, selfish bastards of all colors and creeds will throw a sh*t fit to end all sh*t fits.

Rutherford, you minimize the obvious. Let me ask you a fair question. As an educated an intelligent black man, does the following video embarrass you in the least? Do you find it intellectually honest and stimulating? Is this an appropriate spokesperson for the black community?

If so, give me their Good Samaritan, Jesus loving equivalent in good standing.

You’ve mixed apples and oranges there. Rev Wright and Lou honestly don’t belong in the same league as Sharpton, and Jackson. As for the Congressional Black Caucus, the only thing dopey about them is they band together over the superficial quality of being black. I don’t know how this works but I’m curious … if you’re an identifiably black congress critter, do you automatically become a member? Or do you get invited? Taken as individuals, I’m sure some members of the caucus are stand-up and some are assh*les. What else is new?

For everyone you can provide, I’ll provide an equal number of Conservative blacks like Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Thomas Sewell, Walter Williams that are vilified in the most insidious ways possible – not by White America but by Black America.

Off topic: today I am involved in a project that goes against every instinct in my body. I’m a pack-rat by nature. Today I’m going through my hard drive and deleting crap I haven’t looked at or used in years. Every time I hit the ”delete” key, a little voice in my head says you’re gonna need that some day. :-(

Well, actually you don’t if you feel those men constitute the 50% I find decent. They are rare birds and getting rarer best I can tell.

Believe it or not, I actually stood lab partner in anatomy with a husband and wife team (both black as the ace of spades) who I found quite decent, became friendly with, bought their lunch even a few times, and they actually voted for Obama (gasp). I actually find you “decent” most of the time, though I can’t tell you that here.

That above is about 5% if you are to believe personal preferences. But neither did I try to lead you to believe that voting for Obama makes you indecent. Confused perhaps.

Voting for that miserable failure like that twice might make you indecent. :wink: Truth be known, I do not find Obama decent. I find him personally abhorrent and a closet racist.

I tip my hap to you Rutherford (well..I would if I wore one). How you manage to get so much debate (I’m being polite) out of every-single-post is beyond me! Granted the debate does seem to take a winding course…a bit like a spider on speed…but still, impressive :-)

WAY OFF TOPIC:
In cleaning up my hard drive I ran across a stash of emails I sent way back in 1994 (yes I said I was a pack rat). In one of them I rave about a song by the Talking Heads that I had completely forgotten about.

Since a recurring theme in the blog comments section has been “stop whining and get over it”, I thought I’d share this 1977 nugget:

No CompassionIn a world where people have problems
In this world where decisions are a way of life
Other people’s problems they overwhelm my mind
They say compassion is a virtue, but I don’t have the time

So many people…have their problems
I’m not interested…in their problems
I guess I’ve…experienced some problems
But now I’ve…made some decisions
Takes a lot of time to push away the nonsense
Take my compassion…Push it as far as it goes
My interest level’s dropping, my interest level is dropping
I’ve heard all I want to, I don’t want to hear any more

What are you, in love with your problems?
I think you take it…a little too far
It’s…not so cool to have so many problems
But don’t expect me to explain your indecisions
Go…talk to your analyst, isn’t that what they’re paid for
You walk, you talk…You still function like you used to
It’s not a question…Of your personality or style
Be a little more selfish, it might do you some good

In a world where people have problems
In this world where decisions are a way of life
Other people’s problems, they overwhelm my mind
They say compassion is a virtue, but I don’t have the time

I hadn’t seen the Krauthammer article, Tigre. But I had heard Dr. Charles talk about this. The Buffett rule is a joke – worse, it’s a sham to raise capital gains taxes. Last I heard, they had talked about as much as 44%. Obama’s grand plan is a disgrace and statism by another name.

And to prove liberals are both liars and clueless, let’s consider their crowning achievement: Social Security. Remember they’ve been promising us at a minimum, 75% of it was GUARANTEED to be there through 2037? I never could figure out how they could make that guarantee because there is nothing in the Trust Fund. It’s empty, backed by $2 trillion worth of notes coming due in 2017.

Obama care will gut Medicare Advantage, but the administration will spend $8 billion on what they call a pilot plan to preserve Medicare until after the election. Many old people depend on Medicare Advantage, and if they knew the future, they would vote for anyone but Obama.

Anyone notice how the dems build time-bombs into everything to avoid their days of reckoning until another election cycle? Gawd. And we’re being lectured to by R and Thor about emergency brakes? Disgraceful.

Preaching to the choir here. The explanation for Rutherford and Thor believing their parables quite clever instead of parody, is clearly the malady of delusion.

Since they are much too young I believe to have dementia, their mirage of reality, their clouded judgment, their sordid recall of fact and recent history, Thor’s penchant to bend facts and make up statistics, and their selective memory can only be explained away by something like Occam’s razor.

Leave it to rabbit to turn it back to abortion. :roll: What took you so long?

This was a pretty good article. These national stories serve the purpose of the oppressors. Always have, always will.

Ultimately, though, the suspicion, desperation and fear that lead to violence and loss of life largely have their roots in the dysfunction and alienation that are byproducts of the social dynamic in this country. And much of that has to do not with race but with economic opportunity.

Regarding 243, you sure are gullible. I’m certain you WANT to believe…

To set the record straight here, the people partying on Fort Mason Green last Saturday would hardly identify themselves as part of any particular group that promoted anything other than getting drunk on cheap beer. There was no organized Earth Day celebration, and (perhaps more to the point) the partying occurred on April 21st. Which would be the day before Earth Day, for those keeping score at home.

This kind of blatant fabrication has become something of a trademark move for Fox News and News Corp in general, who seem to base much of their reporting on making outrageous claims and hoping no one calls them out on it. Why, just this morning Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy admitted that he made up part of an Obama quote, so it would sound like a dig at Mitt Romney. And climate scientists recently called out the News Corp-owned Wall Street Journal for printing BS about global warming.

This is a good article regarding Romney’s greatest skill. The convincing lie…

In Romney’s previous career – as a corporate raider – lying may have been a part of the job, in lulling a company’s long-time owners into complacency or convincing some well-meaning investors that massive layoffs won’t be necessary. Then, wham-o, the company founders are out, their loyal workforce is on the street, and the company can be “reorganized” for a big profit.

Arguably, Romney learned his skill as a liar from those days at Bain Capital – and he has put it to good use as a politician, taking opposite sides of issue after issue, from abortion rights to global warming to government mandates that citizens buy health insurance to whether stay-at-home mothers “work” or not.

Indeed, as New York Times columnist Paul Krugman noted on Monday, Romney’s whole campaign is based on a cynical belief that Americans suffer from “amnesia” about what caused the nation’s economic mess and that they will simply blame President Obama for not quickly fixing it.

To illustrate the point last week, Romney staged a campaign event in Ohio at a shuttered drywall factory that closed in 2008, when Bush was still president and was watching the collapse of the housing market which had grown into a bubble under Bush’s low-tax, deregulatory policies.

Poolman, you’re not gullible. You’re stupid – real stupid. Perhaps that explains your lot in life. I find it hard to believe anybody could be that unlucky. :twisted:

I suppose it never occurred to a cerebral giant like you that upon being busted, some off the wall greenie organization went looking for excuse and penned that? Which raises the question? Why didn’t the SFIST green organization pick it up anyway? Every night I walk my Mickey, I pick up trash. Is that beneath you environmental phonies, I mean environmentalists?

Here, for old times sake, Rube. The post apocalyptic wasteland of Barack Obama’s inauguration…

Robert Parry is best known for getting run off by of all places Newsweek – the bankrupt magazine for being a crazed loon. You’ve got to be completely cocked to get shit canned from Newsweek! :lol:

Traitorous endeavors? But, but, but Poolman, you’ve been telling us the last two years you were died in the wool Conservative in the ’80s! Remember that line shit for brains? Damn Poolman, you’ve gotten even weirder, wilder and worse since my sojourn from here for a few months.

——–

Everyone want a good laugh? Check out Poolman’s Romney authority in this interview. Almost a spitting image of Herr Adolph. Starts about 1:39. :lol:

You believe every anti-authoritarian, leftist dogma currently playing, the more far out, the more alien, the better. You run over to your loon boards like Chatty Kitchen and Stone Kettle Joes (or whatever that Bluto lookalike is called), as you’ve never had an original thought of your own, you read the tilted meme for the day, some progressive screed that sounds outrageous to the normal mind, but in your lunatic reality, it’s Heaven’s Gate solid gold.

So you run out to find something, anything, on the net to justify its existence. And this time, you link some Adolph Hitler last days look alike and Newsweek flunky as gospel authority.

So I busted your tilted ass just for grins to provide a day’s reprieve from your nonsense. No harm, no foul.

But Poolman – just because you’ve learned to cut, paste and parrot Auntie Jean’s or Helen Kettle’s lastest conspiracy rant, doesn’t make you any less of the twisted leech.

Political Capital, thanks for the compliment. You may have noticed this is more of a social club (or dare I say anti-social club) than any actual debate inspired by what I write. In fact, as the current thread indicates, sometimes the denizens don’t even read what I write. ;-)

Trying out a new keyboard application . I think I could make this one work. We will see.

That, in a nutshell spells out the difference between Android and iOS. My keyboard is built into the OS and I don’t think there is any way of changing it (I could be wrong). Apparently from what Rabbit has been writing, the native keyboard that came with his phone can be overridden.

Ollie North came and spoke at our church back in the day. A real hero and saint, they all claimed he was. He soaked it up.

Now anyone can read the declassified truth. We are way too lazy, though, and have very short attention spans, except when it comes to eating, drinking, or porn. We loves us some self-gratification. :grin:

“Besides, who’s talking Romney? You said the BUSH tax cuts had no impact on the financial crisis and I countered with … but they had an impact on the deficit. Your Romney comment is a red herring.”:roll::roll::roll:

If you’re going to jump in on an exchange, at least know the topic Mr. Reading Comprehension. This is getting tired.

I like the “social club.” It pretty well describes the blog, and that is a good thing.

This is from memory.

The Soviet Union aided insurgencies in an attempt to defeat the West. One of those battle grounds was in Nicaragua. The United States was helping fund and train the Contras as it did in Africa and other parts of the world.

Danial Ortega was an attractive man our leftists swooned over. Peter, Paul, and Mary were especially impressed by his charms when he visited them in New York City. They didn’t care that his government was mistreating Indians opponents . The man was a photogenic leftist, and liberals wanted him to stay in power.

Contras were as brutal and corrupt as the Sandinistas and Democrats were appauled. Congress passed the Boland Amendment forbidding any agency of the United States government from helping the Contras.

I don’t know how Ollie North and his cohorts felt. Maybe they were like the Airman who knew the Montinard tribesmen in Vietnam. After we abandoned South Vietnam, The Viet Cong overran their positions and killed many of them. A man I talked to said they desperately radioed for air support, but all he could do was to end radio contact and cry.

I think the same feelings of frustration and betrayal motivated North and his allies. He was not a traitor, but he broke the law in a way potentially dangerous to our republic.

The hapless Democrats planed to hang North and his allies, and they expected the country to turn against them during testimony. Unfortunately for them, Ollie was a charasmatic and sympathetic figure. they were too liberal with immunity, and much of his testimony was forbidden in the trial.

The notoriety made North popular enough to become a talk show host. It also led to one of William Shatner’s great post Star Trek triumphs. He was the Mute Marine in a Saturday Night Live skit.

I wouldn’t bet on a war with Iran. The boycots are working, and the Iranians are sounding more reasonable. The US and Isreal have unwittingly been playiing Good Cop, Bad Cop.

These are no longer Bush’s wars. They are Obama’s wars. Democrats supported them also.

The preoccupation with Bush illustrates the Democrats’ ideological bankrupsy. They hope we are like Poolman’s labradors. “Lie down. We’ll play again tomorrow. Good boy. I’ll turn on” MSNBC, ABC or the other Obama lap dogs.

For Rabbit, Tex, and others who dabble in stocks: that crunching sound you hear is the AAPL short squeeze.

When are people going to learn that Ben Graham was right? Over the short term, the market is a voting machine. Over the long term, it’s a weighing machine. Technical analysis is voodoo and over the long term will do you just about as much good. Cup-and-saucer, head-and-shoulders, momentum my ass.

I’ve been out of the market for about a year now – at least 85% out. Drawing 1-2% interest, because I keep thinking this house of cards is going to crumble – and if Obama should win, guaranteed to crumble.

Of course, I’ve lost about a 10% return of the market in the process since? :mad:

Whoops!

Any of you tech heads have any idea what the next big tech gimmitry will be? I”m sitting here on this all-in-one PC that I purchased with warranty for less than a thousand bucks and wondering, “where can we go from here?”

Rumor is that AAPL is planning a new iPhone that is a metallized glass in its entirety – pretty gimmicky, don’t know what the other advantages are, and they are planning a TV where you can pick your individual channels rather than paying for a package that includes twenty channels or more that you never watch.

The iPad has revolutionized flying. I dumped my subscription to Jeppesen IFR charts; I spend about a half-hour per week taking old charts out of my notebooks and putting new ones in. There is an app that uses external solid-state gyros (like model airplanes and helis use now) along with maps of your position to generate a virtual sunny day even if you are in the clouds. It shows a computer-generated view of the terrain below as you fly, along with identifying obstacles. When you go to land you just fly the plane to the airport and land, as if you were on a clear day. Absolutely revolutionary. And the iPad runs off the plane’s battery or if that fails, seven hours on its own. Pretty sweet.

Pfesser, when I went to Hawaii last summer, I was astounded at what my daughter’s Android phones did – my oldest daughter directed me around a tropical island with some free app that was frankly better than the Tom Tom I’ve used in my car. Incredible technology.

They’ve got Androids because we’ve got the T-Mobile Plan. Don’t worry, both daughters already been indoctrinated into their MAC equipment at college. They dropped their PCs like a hot potato two years ago and never looked back.

Tex, right click the comments box and you should be able to enable spell check (sadly for that comment alone). (Then again, rarely I find the box already spell check enabled … completely unpredictable.)

Yeah “R”, I’ve heard about these Google glasses…do you really think that will be that advantageous?

By the way Pfesser, my father-in-law gave his Cessna to Wings of Hope last weekend and retired as weekend pilot. Several surgeries on the back did him in. :sad: I guess my days of flying at 5,000 feet are over with.

James, James, James, my good man:
You’re making your life way too complicated. To post a YouTube video just copy and paste the web address (URL) into the comments box. No quotes, no brackets, no nothing. Just the URL … and make sure not to have any leading “blanks”.

I would love to get away from Cable TV. And I could do it to if I could figure out how to get ESPN. I could care less about the talking heads anymore. ESPN has about taken over college sports and that’s all the sports I watch anymore.

Tex I was actually just being obnoxious about the Google glasses. Call me old fashioned but I think it’s the dumbest idea to come around in ages. I don’t want sh*t floating in front of my eyes while I’m doing stuff.

I’m using Google Chrome and the spell check is automatically enabled. It could be a characteristic of Chrome. I also had no real issue with WP since they changed everything. My only complaint is the puny comment box always shrinks and makes it tough to proofread and edit.

The problem with the spell check is it sometimes doesn’t recognize some real words or certain tenses. I am still not above incorrectly spelling some things, especially when in a hurry.

Re: Alfie @206. Are you making reference to whether or not the CRA was the catalyst behind the crash of 2008? IMO, it was not. Even if the banking industry had fully complied with CRA and as a result provided mortgages to people unable to afford them those mortgages in themselves would not have caused the crash of 2008. Bank failures would have been restricted to regions not country to country.
The crash was a result of SIVs which carried a rating of AAA to BBB and considered a safe investment in a volatile market even though many of the securities that were bundled were high risk. Blame Moody’s if you want to point a finger.

“A structured investment vehicle (SIV) was an operating finance company established to earn a spread between its assets and liabilities like a traditional bank. The strategy of SIVs was to borrow money by issuing short-term securities, such as commercial paper and medium term notes and public bonds at low interest rates and then lend that money by buying longer term securities at higher interest rates, with the difference in rates going to investors as profit. Long term assets could include, among other things, residential mortgage backed securities (RMBS), auto loans, student loans, credit cards securitisations, and bank and corporate bonds. Because of this structure, SIVs were considered to be part of the shadow banking system.”

Invented by Citigroup in 1988, SIV’s were popular until the market crash of 2008

In 1988 and 1989, two London bankers, Nicholas Sossidis and Stephen Partridge-Hicks launched the first two SIVs for Citigroup, called Alpha Finance Corp. and Beta Finance Corp. In 1993, Sossidis and Partridge-Hicks left Citigroup to form their own SIV management firm, Gordian Knot, located in the ritzy Mayfair district in London. “Alpha Finance was created in response to volatility in the capital markets at the time. Investors wanted a highly-rated vehicle that would yield more stable returns on their capital, said Henry Tabe, a managing director for Moody’s Investors Service’s London office.”

“The speech is dated on December 3, 2008, A lot happened after that time. Many more people lost their homes.
I don’t fully trust the Stanley Kurtz articles either, but they fit better with other information about the lax loaning practices I’ve read about. Thus, I still believe the overly simplistic parable is still a iie.” – James

I liked the Kurtz piece. I didn’t know acorn used the CRA to hold up and prevent bank mergers. More power to them. The consolidation of banks is what makes them too big to fail. TARP added to the problem.

I don’t understand your point about the date. Your piece was from October of 2008, when we knew even less.

I guess I have no sense of humor. I found the idiocy of the lyrics almost as bad as the shell game of Obama’s policy. Keep college affordable? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Where you been the last ten years Brack? Gawd, TV has sunk to a new low.

What Barry should have said is, “College is outrageously overpriced, overrated, and there are no jobs to pay back your Stafford loans. I’ve been negligent as hell as your President but now I’ve come up with a new gimmick to get you shills to vote for me. Get the hell out of college you imbeciles while you still got the chance…”

Interesting take on the college thing: Charles Murray (of The Bell Curve fame) did a book a couple of years ago that basically suggested college was the worst deal on the planet, with statistics to back it up, of course. Bearing that in mind, I took my not-too-academic son to take a look at a machine-shop program in the town where he now lives – which also happens to be where I did my medical training a long time ago. I actually had taken that very class at night when I was in radiology residency (a lot easier then than now) and came out with decent training in metalworking and machining. Too much time on my hands, I suppose.

When we went to check on it, it turns out that class at the vo-tech in this sizable town has been closed for years. Why? Lack of interest. Everybody is doing the easy shit like “medical assisting,” “office manager,” “office computer management,” – other fluffy stuff. No machining, no welding, no mechanics or bricklaying or plumbing or carpentry. Not available.

I keep saying, we are well and truly intercoursed in this country. I see nothing to disabuse me of that feeling.

I am with you Pfesser. If I had sons, or if I had my life to do over again, I might very well give thought to heading to Vo Tech or perhaps the military.

It’s a shame when I was younger, for some reason machine shop type of work, plumbing, electrical, landscaping, gardening, metal or woodwork – either all beneath me or didn’t interest me. Remember, I wasn’t college material either according to my high school counselor – and she was right. Too immature, too dysfunctional – I thought I was an athlete until physics caught up with me. Not much fun getting hit by a guy that can run 4.5 and outweighs you by 50 lbs. So I said screw that.

Now that I’m 50+, these trades are the only things that interest me. I’ve become a decent self taught electrician, gardener, trim carpenter, and plumber. Never could get the hang of welding, though. But I would love to try again now that my interest piqued.

Ideally, what would be nice is to bust my ass like you did, stay in a job 15 years that paid enough and if you lived fairly frugally, you could retire and still travel and spoil the grand kids. Do what you did and take up flying. I’m frankly jealous of you in a way. At least with radiology, whether you liked it or not, you made it big time. I never made what you did, but I made pretty good money but couldn’t handle the office politics and never achieved what I was capable because I was either too truthful, or didn’t want to play fraternity cheerleader – turned my stomach. I had to get into medical school, wasting a small fortune to figure out I didn’t want to be a doctor. Life is too short to learn by the school of hard knocks, and I had no mentor.

What I’m doing now, believe it or not, is planting my first real vegetable garden.

I consider myself a physically fit, well educated homemaker, blog philosopher, and unseasoned, wannabee gardener. :smile: Just bought my wife a dogwood (we lost one in an ice storm) and am going to plant it for her Mother’s Day.

I did marry right.

But if it weren’t for an absolutely wonderful immediate family, two great kids and perhaps the best wife in the world, I would tell you I would feel completely lost anymore. I’ve given up hope of being able to change the world for the better and it would appear to me it is getting worse.

I’m to the point of trying to become as completely self sufficient as possible. Let’s just hope the body holds out to get there.

It took for me to turn 50 years old to recognize just how much we’ve taken for granted all these years. Jeeze, I’ve had it pretty easy. What I thought was busting my ass (going to college) looking back is almost sissified. Ever tried to roof a home? I did. Once was enough. I’ve also come to the conclusion, without hardships, you never mature and you never grow.

Perhaps that’s why America is struggling…maybe a collapse is what we need to restore our manhood.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Sounds like you have been and still are a great husband and dad. I am a little down on myself for being such a dog-ass in the spare time I have after work and on my occasional week or weekend off. My biggest problem is priority; I do stuff that is urgent but not important – things like fixing the light in the garage bathroom that we never use, but failing to do other things that are a lot more important. My buddy Joe calls it “polishing the doorknobs” – something to do to avoid doing unpleasant but far more important jobs that you don’t want to tackle.

Hope to fix that when I quit. I’m just so damned tired after work and it’s so hard to keep all the balls in the air. I don’t know how the real execs do it. My prioritizing sucks.

Hell, I’m going to be in your shoes soon; we ought to talk about some kind of joint project to get our dead asses moving – just getting physically fit if nothing else. When I’m in shape – rarely – it completely transforms my world. I get a potful done when I feel good.

Poolman, I like the Ollie North cartoon. It is hilarious. We don’t have cable, so I had forgotten North was on Fox.

One inaccuracy is that Reagan may not have known the details to give him deniability. It is also possible pre Alzheiners was setting in. I
read that Reagan was not the same man in the last of his term. As I mentioned before North “got off” because he was given immunity too many times.

I’m glad my stiff neck doesn’t bother you thor. Yes, I am a speed reader. My future wife and I took a course in college. The machine had a bar which moved down the page and our eyes centered on the center of the line and used perfieral vision. you could probably do the same with an imaginary line if you wanted to read faster. The head of the class worked up to 10,000 or 12,000 words per minute if I remember correctly. At that speed, you are not reading many individual words, you are getting impressions.

Stanly Kurtz had a problem getting the information about some of the committees Obama served on because the principals didn’t want to release it.

My thought about the date is conditions became even worse after December 3, 2008. I would have liked to read a report a year or two later. Kurtz was explaining a process which had begun much earlier and in my opinion, the state of the economy was less relevant to his message. His articles and the speech had expressed different goals.

I agree about too big to fail, but we knew the term a long time ago. My father-in law’s feed customer met with his loan officer who told him he was finished. The farmer produced figures showing he was too big to fail. It would cost the bank more to forclose than to give him time to dig himself out of his hole. The bank agreed, and he kept his farm while slowly repaying his debt.

I agree with Ragi, the CRA and the weak mortgages contributed to the crash but as she wrote the principle cause was what happened to the bad paper which was converted to other financial packages and sold around the world. Once the crash began and confidence fell, no one could be sure which assets were worth their stated values and which were not.

Public Television’s Front Line discussed the Crash of 1929. Ths scenery was familiar.

I agree with Tex. Our priorities are wrong.We have been taught to regard someone without a college education as inferior. College was worth it all to me because my wife and I met in college.

Rutherford, Obama has jumped the shark hasn’t he? “Can I hear an amen?” I hope my problem with posting the Middle East video didn’t cause too much extra work for you. I hope someone watched it.

This administration wants to forbid children under 18 from working on farms. A strict interpretation would mean they couldn’t even wash a tractor. 4H would be crippled, and detassling corn would no longer be a source of money. 14- year olds can work earn up to $2,000 for clothes and fun. Congress people from rural areas are of course fighting it, but the president can ignore legislation and issue an exutive order.

An Omaha talk show is discussing it now. Several callers think this is a ruse to find jobs for immigrants. Someone else asked what would stop the government from forbidding children in the suburbs from mowing the lawn or shoveling snow.

I believe European countries like Germany use apprenticeships, and we need more here too. Physical work does give a sence of accomplishment. It is counter productive to kill one of the best rural apprenticeships in the country.

You were in college for quite a while, Poolman. You must have learned a lot.

I’ve also come to the conclusion, without hardships, you never mature and you never grow.

I’ve voiced this theory before and been dismissed by just about everyone I told it to but I say, Tex, that our generation, the first without a draft in many years, has never HAD to go to war. As a result, I think 90% of us never grew up. When the government pulls your number and sends you to a foreign country with a gun, you grow up damn fast and you come back home with a sense of gravity and purpose.

What have we ever had to fight for? Not a damn thing. We send about 1% of our nation (the volunteers) to do our dirty work for us while we sit on our ass and watch TV.

James, I took a speed reading class either in college or high school, don’t remember which. It was just as you described, parts of a sentence made clear while the rest was “fuzzy” and the parts that were made clear got bigger and accelerated as the class progressed. I hated it … and failed at it.

To this day, I read one word at a time, and with one eye to make matters worse (the right eye is “lazy”) … therefore very slowly. If I really get absorbed in a book I can go through it at a decent clip but still much slower than most folks. I envy those who read “photographically” taking in entire sentences at a time.

Poolman, it is interesting that your degree was going to be in advertising art. Advertising is of course manipulation and bullsh*t which you abhor. How different would your outlook have been if you had completed that degree and pursued that career?

Are you kidding me? You couldn’t handle the power structure in corp America and told them to f*ck off. You think you’re capable of surviving one week in the military?

Good grief, Rutherford. Are you just obtuse or that thick? First, there is a big difference in attitude, wisdom and naivety between being 18 and being 43. Second, the military provides both discipline and structure. While I may have struggled with the first through my life, I never had the latter. Structure was something I desperately lacked and while I was quite confident in some things, believe it or not, I was terribly shy at 18.

Unfortunately, when I was 18, it was three years after Vietnam and the fall of Saigon. The military never even entered my mind and very few of my peers. Perhaps I was born at the wrong time. :smile:

Lay off the brownies. Will make your tilted ass fat and you’re getting hyper.

You will be shocked when you walk away, how you can fill your time. And if you’re like me, you will wonder how you got all the things done you did when working full time.

Today, I cut and stained some slats for antique furniture we inherited, purchased and planted a dogwood for my wife, walked the dog early, read the paper, bullshit here for 20-30 minutes, and helped a handicapped gal get her tomatoes in the ground, including crawling around in her attic to get the stands out. Actually, its kind of rewarding and much appreciated – but these people are 20 years my senior.

But let me forewarn you now, so you don’t make the same mistake I have. When you leave, soon thereafter no matter how well liked at work, you will be out of sight, out of mind. Since my wife is gone most of the time and the kids are grown and gone, I have allowed myself to become quite isolated. That’s why I have volunteered in the neighborhood so much – but those aren’t my close friends either, and probably why I’m wasting time here more than I should.

Don’t do it.

A couple of my buddies have asked me to help them build homes for Habitat for Humanity – but I’m not ready for that yet.

I agree with you especially on 299. There is nothing like the first week of basic training to focus your attention. We need rites of passage to mark transitions from one phase of life to another. I agree, many of the generation never grew up. I also believe some people secretly wonder how they would have behaved if they had been tested.

A group of men felt guilt because they had evaded Vietnam. Some were on the Donahue Show during the ’80’s. They said they felt incomplete, as if they had missed the defining event of their generation’s lives.

You WERE handicapped as you speed read with a lazy eye, weren’t you. I don’t need glasses because I am near sighted in one eye and far sighted in the other, so that isn’t the same as your problem.

Back in the days before a car accident made my brain swell, I had editic (photographic memory). I could read fast and retain it. The combination during my first two years, gave me far too much time to play in college. I’d have flunked out without my edge.

I can move through a book pretty quickly, but if I really like the book reading slowly is more satisfying.

You seem to have lived a pretty good life. What would you have done differently if you could start over?

Rutherford, re 301, you hit on the very reason I got out. We were learning to MANipulate™ the public with words and imagery. It is a science. I decided I could not go there and do that. I determined to transfer my degree to Fine Art, but decided it was not really a marketable degree or a guaranteed profitable field. I got tired of the college politics and needed to earn money instead of just keep spending toward classes and materials.

Artists are strange. I know plenty. Some have made a name for themselves and do well. Others are still struggling and haven’t found a market for their work, others haven’t found their niche.

I love to paint huge canvases. I haven’t done that in many years. The cost of materials is quite high. I prefer working with acrylic over oil. Watercolors are fun, too, and not so pricey. Maybe someday I’ll splurge and get back into it.

For now it’s pools and CAD as my outlet. I am working on a very fancy project in Paradise Valley right now, with 3 vanishing edges trickling down 3 stair-stepped glass tile walls, an all glass tile spa, and a 15 foot wide rain curtain with a raised firepit next to a huge Baja bench. When finished, I’ll add it to my website and I’ll try to post a picture somewhere where you all can see. It probably won’t finish until late summer or fall.

You seem to have lived a pretty good life. What would you have done differently if you could start over?

I don’t know if that was directed at me but I’ll answer anyway.

At Harvard we had to “comp” for certain extracurricular activities. In other words, you didn’t get to participate JUST cos you wanted to. You had to audition and qualify. One evening I went over to the dorm room of my classmate who was working at WHRB (Harvard’s radio station) to see about comping for the station. I knocked on his door and he didn’t answer and I took it as a sign (a bad omen of sorts) that this was not for me. Yes, I was just that foolish (and scared of trying new stuff).

So, if I had it to do over again, I would have pursued a position at WHRB and parlayed that into a radio career. Before my tracheotomy, many folks told me I had a great voice for radio. As much as I loathe him, what I wouldn’t give to be Rush Limbaugh … wake up every morning and spend three hours on the radio spouting off … and get paid serious money for it.

They don’t have disc jockeys any more. If they did, that would be my second choice. The problem with a career in radio is that to progress you have to move around a lot as you get jobs in more competitive markets … that is until you become a Rush Limbaugh and record in your home studio and get syndicated all over the country.

Poolman, I seem to recall seeing some of your work from an email you once sent me. I’m no pool expert but it looked like fine work indeed. As much as Tex likes to shoot darts at you, I think he’d have to begrudgingly give you props on your chosen profession.

Rutherford, I think you underestimate your current radio voice. I think its bad ass. Its edgy, man. Now its too bad your show absolutely sucks. That chick on there is so boring. It’s like listening to some dullard nag politics from an office cubicle . Want ratings? Get the motherfucken Rabbit and make it the early morning zoo. I would instantly double your ratings, bringing your Neilson Rating to 6 rubes.
Leaning Left….
It’s like your goal is to ensure nobody wants to tune in and get a bland dose of watered down MSNBC talking points.

Pfessor, if you also have a kegarator in your garage, I am inviting myself over to make fun of the nose piercings at the upcoming summer solstice Celtic pagan party and staying until I see the business end of one of your assualt rifles.

Ha. Fuck yeah. Poolman was tripping his balls off when he and the old lady saw the flying robotic insect. This was all a few years ago too. Can you imagine catching such an apparatus? Far out man. Poolman is lucky the Decepticons didn’t end up fighting Optimus Prime for control of his arid Arizona parcel .

This “bug” flew into her as she came around the corner of the house. She thought it was just some big, clumsy beetle until she got a closer look. It just backed up, dropped down, and then flew around her. When we started to follow it, it went up and over the house.

I look very closely at all bugs, especially the ones that fly just a tad different. We have plenty of weird insects out here, but most are the real deal.

I’m sure it’s all pretend, rabbit. Fantasy. If they really had such things, they surely wouldn’t use them domestically. Surely not our nice, friendly uncle, who ALWAYS has our best interest in mind.

Leaning Left….
It’s like your goal is to ensure nobody wants to tune in and get a bland dose of watered down MSNBC talking points.

LOL it’s only going to get worse as we move the show to Tuesday afternoons. This old bastard is too damn tired on Sunday night to keep this stuff up. Besides, I like my weekends free. So starting next week, the show moves to Tuesdays 2pm CDT (that’s 3pm on the East coast and noon on the West coast).

If no one was listening on Sunday nights, damn … I may actually achieve negative ratings on a weekday afternoon.

I’ll say this, Rabbit … with Sandi it’s real predictable. I throw the pitch and she hits it in the same direction every time. Makes it fairly easy for me. Now if YOU were my co-host I’d have to be on my toes every episode. It would be exhausting. :-)

P.S. A little behind the scenes — I structure the show each week (choose most of the topics and upload supporting sound bites). Sometimes Sandi doesn’t even know what the topics will be until we hit the air.

P.P.S. I’ve been told I sound like a cross between Demi Moore and a Jewish grandmother. :neutral:

Damn Pfessor you have a bathroom in your garage? That is fucking awesome.

I never gave it much thought but with my Irritable Bowel Syndrome that might come in damn handy for me!!! I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to rush from the car into the apartment to do my business.

He ought to consider wearing a brown shirt to honor his ideological ancestors. So should The EPA’s Al Armendariz . The Labor Department officials who have already sent people to farms and cited a few for letting their children do unapproved jobs.

“Pfessor, if you also have a kegarator in your garage, I am inviting myself over to make fun of the nose piercings at the upcoming summer solstice Celtic pagan party and staying until I see the business end of one of your assualt rifles.”

No kegarator. I do have a ‘fridge with extra stuff in it and of course I keep a case of cold beer, too. I have never kept a car in a single garage I have owned. Covered, somewhat-heated space is just too valuable. I keep my tools there and my big-ass work bench.

I don’t know WTF the prior owners were thinking about, putting a bath/shower in the garage. They were Filipinos, the woman was a pediatrician and her husband a stay-at-home who worked on the landscaping all day every day as near as I can tell. It is beautiful in the spring when everything blooms. Maybe they put in the bath so he could shower before going into the house. Donno…

And any of you would be quite welcome to visit and hoist a brew any time.

I was up for the draft when there were no deferments; you got a low lottery number and you were gone, by God. I was shitting razor blades, two of my friends had already been killed; I had ALREADY been shot at and found it most disagreeable.

I will never forget that phone call from my older brother. No hello, how are you doing, have an apple. All he said was, “Congratulations, 310!” I could have kissed him, right through the phone lines.

I don’t know if you read the article, but the militant queer, big mouth and rabble rouser was at a “bullying” conference. So what’s he do? Offend students, bully students, mock students, and then call them pansy.

We have an old refrigerator in our garage. it is for storing machinery parts. Our machine shed has an old ice box for the same purpose. Thanks for the invitation, Pfessor. Wouldn’t it be fun for us all to meet together?

I was before the lottery. My letter came on April Fools Day. “Greetings, you are hear by inducted into the United States Army. You will report to,,,” I had already talked to the Air Force, so both branches fought over me for two weeks before the Air Force won.

Besides the gullt- ridden men on Donahue, two female friends told me their husbands watched “Platoon” because they felt guilty for not going. I read that Lee Greenwood and Billy Joel each wrote a couple of patriotic songs because they felt guilt at not serving.

An airman I knew enlisted with his friends under a friends’ service program. They died in Vietnam and he didn’t. He did drugs to ease his guilt. I never understood it.

The president is creating a false issue with student loans to fight a battle of fear. They were included with Obamacare to earn some money. Now, Obama wants to block the increase. I don’t think anyone opposes maintaining student loans at the current rate. . Young people are not so enthusiastic about the light master, and Obama needs to make them afraid.

“We would be remiss in our duty to you and our students if we did not challenge your continuing misuse of Catholic teaching to defend a budget plan that decimates food programs for struggling families, radically weakens protections for the elderly and sick, and gives more tax breaks to the wealthiest few,” said the letter by 90 faculty members and priests to the Wisconsin representative.

The letter adds: “In short, your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

I guess the Catholic Church and Georgetown University are “fear mongers” too.

I am also stiff- necked about most college professors. Yes, they are fear mongering from their little cloister because they are blind. If they are such experts, let them give us a plan to save our economy. Those profesors would have us spend our birthright until it was gone, and that is unbibical..

Of more interest, were the links to other articles, including the one about glaciers’ being out of balance with their environment. The earth warmed faster than the ice could melt, and now that the climate has stabilized for awhile, the ice still melts rapidly. I figured it out a long time ago by watching snow melt on 40 degree days.

The other articles about growing ice fields in Asia and shrinking glaciers in Chili and Europe.

Reutors now says George Zimmerman, the “white Hispanic” who shot Trayvon is really a quarter black through his Peruvian roots. Now what will the race baiters do? Those professors deserve as much respect as the press. They needed a blond German and got a black, white Hispanic. Wouldn’t it be funny if he also had Indian or Asian blood. .

PF, I wasn’t suggesting that any of us who did not serve have anything to feel guilty about. I was simply saying that mandatory service turned many boys into men and we don’t have an equivalent rite of passage today, resulting in a lot of “grown up boys”.

I know I had to “register”, whatever that means. I also knew I was an immediate 4F so there would never be a Private Rutherford. :-)

Time for a quick off topic rant: PF and Tex who both have experience with the medical profession will get this better than most.

I sleep connected to a respiratory ventilator at night. It isn’t a “life sustaining” type of thing … I just breathe so shallow at night that CO2 builds up and I wake up a bit sick. If I didn’t have a trach, I’d simply use a bi-pap but alas my doctors don’t think a bi-pap works well with trach users.

So that’s the background. Turns out my ventilator is going out of style and won’t be supported anymore so they’ll have to replace it with a new model. The home health provider is insisting that I give the new one a test run in a hospital overnight. I said this is pure BS. I know how to operate this type of equipment and worst case scenario if I encounter a problem, I just sleep with supplementary oxygen and no ventilator for one night until things get sorted out. I asked them to let me sign a waiver for the hospital stay. Provider said “no can do.”

Reading between the lines, obviously sometime in the past some dude got transitioned to a new vent and died so my provider is covering their legal ass with a requirement for a test run in a hospital.

I’m definitely pissed. But truth be told, this is probably the best home care provider available so I don’t want to switch just cos I’m in a funk about one night in a hospital.

I see your point on the one hand, but WTF – just do it. I know from my limited flying experience and other things that a new piece of equipment in a novel environment may turn up problems that nobody thought of, despite acceptance testing and passing two dozen govt gauntlets on safety.

The biggest problem is that low O2 levels don’t register in your brain and you could die and never know there was a problem – look what happens in high altitude aircraft accidents. If you are in hospital, say with a pulse oximeter on, and something happens, you are golden. If you are at home you could be dead. What the hell; give then a night of your time.

“Yes, they are fear mongering from their little cloister because they are blind. If they are such experts, let them give us a plan to save our economy.” – James

Catholic bishops and priests are blind? Didn’t seem to be the sentiment around here a few weeks ago when we were talking about pills and whores. ;) [Not you James. You were quick to admit Rush had stepped in it.]

PF I do get your point. In fact, the low O2 is what got me trached in the first place. Long story short, I went to the ER six years ago with bad congestion. They decided to admit me but had “no room at the inn” so I had to stay in the ER overnight. I wasn’t in the best of shape and neglected to tell them I needed a bi-pap. Result: I went to sleep … real deep sleep … and it wasn’t until morning when my PCP visited me in the ER and found me unresponsive that they attempted to intubate me to get me breathing again. Intubation attempt failed and emergency tracheotomy commenced. While I lay in ICU, they told my wife that until I woke up they wouldn’t know if there was any brain damage.

Well of course, the result is obvious to all here. I went into the ER a conservative that night and the next morning I woke up a liberal. :-)

Thor, in case you’ve already forgotten, and memory doesn’t seem to be your bag, Georgetown is home to the lovely Sandra Fluke.

And that is who you want to use as authority of Gospel, hey?

You don’t understand that much of the Catholic Church has been indoctrinated with a bunch of socialist wannabees – or rather you would ignore the obvious. Why do you think the Pope has declared time to clean up the house?

I’m not a Catholic, thor, and I’m not disrespecting the Church. We are all blind in one way or another, including Rush on that day.

Many church people and accademics are so liberal their minds are closed to altenatives. The Church was on the “right’ side when it was battling for freedom of religon. When it condemns abortion it is also a hero of the right.

Let the Church oppose the death penalty or support a liberal spending program, it becomes the liberals’ best friend.

Those professors were voicing their opinions and they mentioned their Catholic beliefs to add power to their statement. I don’t care if it is the Pope or the leader of our Methodist Church. They are blind if they believe the professors’ statement.

Yes, we are all mutts, Rutherford. In fact, Europeans and Asians are part Neanderthal. Take care of yourself and do what you think is best. .

Rutherford, I agree with Pfesser. Low O2 is something that needs monitoring. It’s doubtful you would realize hypoxia. Pfesser’s example is a good one. Remember Paine Stewart, the golfer?

It’s like the one in hundred chance when you think you might be having a heart attack. They’ve got a 75% chance of reviving you in the hospital, a 5% chance if you’re at home.

I hate to use you as example, but this is why medical care is so high. The threat of litigation drives up everything. Unnecessary? Probably. But its threat of suit that drives defensive medicine. No Lib wants to believe me because they don’t understand it’s not what doctors and manufacturers have paid – it’s what they could pay that drives the equation.

Talk about politics at play. All this talk about Congress doubling student loan interest is so much BS and playing on the minds of students and their parents just to win votes and create a atmosphere of fear.

As stated below the 3.4% interest rate is short term for undergraduates as normally no payments are made until graduation. The rate increases to 6.8% when the loan becomes long term after graduation. Does no one ever stop to check facts? My daughters have been paying 6.8% for the past ten years regardless of the prime rate which is why this information raised a red flag to me.

“Democrats on the House Education and the Workforce Committee this week released a document detailing the increased costs to borrowers if interest rates on Subsidized Stafford loans increase from 3.4 to 6.8 percent, as they are scheduled to for loans issued as on or after July 1st, 2012

It is important to note, that in most states, loans at the 6.8 percent interest rate had longer repayment periods than loans at the 3.4 percent interest rate

Another caveat: The 3.4 percent interest rate applies only to undergraduates, but we are unable to determine the total loan volume only for undergraduate students.”

Great point, Raji. I had a loan with Sallie Mae that I paid in full after I had discovered the interest rate of 6.8% after I left med school. That is absolutely correct. Damn, I wished I had thought of that yesterday when ODumbo was making the rounds.

My first experience with oxygen deprivation, where I was really aware of it, was my first trip as an adult to Colorado. The very day we arrived, my co-worker and I ventured into the mountains. We stopped at three tourist areas each a higher altitude than the prior. With each successive stop, I noticed I was getting shorter and shorter of breath. By the time we reached “the top”, I could only get one word out of my mouth per breath as in “GET … US … BACK …. DOWN”.

I once watched a Dennis Miller concert from Colorado on TV and he had a small oxygen tank on stage with him. I honestly don’t know how so-called healthy people live there!

I skied in Colorado years ago; my suite-mate had just run a marathon in Hawaii a month ago, but had stopped cold turkey afterward and said he had gained a “pound a day” for the past thirty days. I took him at his word; he sure did not LOOK like a marathoner. We stayed at Dillon – around 10K altitude. This guy who was 30 days out from running a marathon was so short of breath I had to put his ski boots on for him.

We had a local doctor in this town who died from HAPE about ten years ago, climbing some mountain or other. (K2 maybe?) He was in top shape. Hypoxia is nothing to trifle with. Some say the most humane form of execution is to put the prisoner in a high altitude chamber. Absolutely no sense of air hunger or distress – just a little euphoria.

We went to the top of Mt Evans in Colorado, and I squatted down to take a picture. It was hard to get up. We hiked to the top of Medicine Bow Peak in the Wyoming Snowy Mountains. Once again, my legs felt pretty heavy.

People adapt over time. We were told not to over exert for a few days. People in the Andies and other high elevations have evolved adaptations to high altitude.

No, Tex (#368), I only glanced at the academics on the list. Figures though. Did you check out the only “priest” they could get to represent the entire Catholic Church? Solid bio of the self-written sort.

Next they’ll tell us Father Mulcahy finds Ryan to be a big old meany pants.

“My first experience with oxygen deprivation, where I was really aware of it, was my first trip as an adult to Colorado”-Rutherford

Geez R, that was my first and last experience. I found out that what I had was altitude sickness so don’t just put it down to your medical problems. I was told if I ever want to go back I needed to include a week in Denver to acclimate before heading up the mountain. Apparently this was not an unusual situation for people who lived in Florida.

Rutherford, regarding the new equipment that you need, I agree with Tex and PF that you should spend the night in the hospital. However, a word to the wise since you are in overnight just as a precaution, the staff may not be as careful as they should be regarding washing their hands moving from room to room. Do ask each staff member to sanitize their hands before working on you or your equipment. You do not need to get MRSA just because of an overnight stay.

Ooooo Raji, been there done that. Got C-Diff in a rehab hospital six years ago and got MRSA on my stay in the hospital this year for pneumonia. Suddenly everyone who entered my room had to be in full smock and mask including my family. It had zero effect on me. If they hadn’t told me I tested positive for it I would not have known.

What I love is how friggin cavalier the hospital staff are about this stuff. When I contracted C-diff six years ago, their attitude was “oh yeah, lots of people get that here. It’s highly contagious.” Now where I come from, you go to the hospital to get better, not to leave with something you didn’t have in the first place. :-(

This is what passes for profundity in lib circles, like Yes We Can! and “WE ARE THE GENERATION WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!”. Not hearing those anymore, are we.

Obama took the messes from a majority Dimocratic Congress, and you’ll note things started going south about time the American public put these shit-for-brains back in power in 2006, and cleaned the messes up by burning the house down and bragging about by picking his gigantic turd up by the clean end.

Robert Gibbs was so bad, Obama fired him. What are you quoting that bespectacled douchebag for, Rutherford? :lol: I sense a tinge of desperation and sadness for a better day. Why don’t you recall some of those hope filled fireside chats from Winter 2009 to soothe the sting?