Notes on Debates, 23 May 1783

Notes on Debates

MS (LC: Madison Papers). For a description of the manuscript of Notes on Debates, see Papers of Madison description begins William T. Hutchinson, William M. E. Rachal, et al., eds., The Papers of James
Madison (7 vols. to date; Chicago, 1962——). description ends , V, 231–34.

Friday May 23

The Report from Mr. Hamilton Mr. Gorham and Mr. Peters, in favor of discharging the soldiers enlisted for the war, was supported on the ground that it was called for by Economy1 and justified by the degree of certainty that the war would not be renewed.2 Those who voted for furloughing the soldiers, wished to avoid expence, and at the same time to be not wholly unprepared for the contingent failure of a definitive treaty of peace.3 The view of the subject taken by those who were opposed both to discharging and furloughing, were explained in a Motion by Mr. Mercer seconded by Mr. Izard to assign as reasons, first that Sr. Guy Carlton had not given satisfactory reasons for continuing at N. York. second, that he has broken the articles of the provisional Treaty relative to the negroes, by sending them off.

This motion appeared exceptionable to several, particularly to Mr. Hamilton, & rather than it should be entered on the Journal by yeas & nays, it was agreed that the whole subject should lye over.4

The Report relating to the Department of For: Affairs being taken up: Mr. Carroll seconded by Mr. Williamson moved that no public Minister should be employed by the U. S. except on extraordinary occasions.5

In support of the proposition it was observed that it would not only be economical, but would withold our distinguished Citizens from the corrupting scenes at foreign Courts, and what was of more consequence would prevent the residence of foreign Ministers in the U. S. whose intrigues & examples might be injurious both to the Govt. & to the people.6

The considerations suggested on the other side were that Diplomatic relations made part of the established policy of Modern Civilized nations, that they tended to prevent hostile collisions by mutual & friendly explanations, & that a young Republic ought not to incur the odium of so singular & as it might be thought disresp[ect]ful innovation. The discussion was closed by an adjournment till Monday.7

1. JCC description begins Worthington Chauncey Ford et al.,
eds., Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774–1789 (34
vols.; Washington, 1904–37). description ends , XXIV, 358. On 23 April Congress resolved that, even before the signing of the definitive treaty of peace, Washington should furlough or discharge soldiers enlisted for the duration of the war, “if circumstances shall” so “require” (Papers of Madison description begins William T. Hutchinson, William M. E. Rachal, et al., eds., The Papers of James
Madison (7 vols. to date; Chicago, 1962——). description ends , VI, 486, and n. 2). By mid-May “the mutinous dispositions” of some of the troops led him to sanction “Furloughs for any length of time they wish; we are better without them than with them” (Fitzpatrick, Writings of Washington description begins John C. Fitzpatrick, ed., The Writings of
George Washington, from the Original Sources, 1745–1799 (39 vols.; Washington,
1931–44). description ends , XXVI, 429–30, 443). Of the 10,399 troops in Washington’s main army, composed of the continental lines of the four New England states, New York, and New Jersey, 6,022 were of duration-of-war status (NA: PCC, No. 137, II, 451).

Another of the compelling circumstances was lack of money. Acceding to a request of 9 May from Robert Morris, superintendent of finance, Congress appointed a committee, composed of Hamilton, chairman, Gorham, and Richard Peters (Pa.), to consult with him. Following their conference six days later, Morris addressed to them a long “State of my Department and the Resources I can command,” supporting his conclusion that the army, except for a garrison at West Point, must be “disbanded immediately.” If the “Army is kept together,” Morris warned, “they will consume as much in one Month as the Taxes will produce in two and Probably much more. To make them three Months Pay will require I suppose at least six hundred thousand Dollars and every Day they continue in the Field lessens the Practicability of sending them Home satisfied.” With his statement Morris enclosed extracts from the records of his office showing that, from 1 January to 15 May 1783, the outgo had exceeded the income by $583,599.78. Of the $941,609.57 in receipts, slightly over one-fourth had come from the seven states which had been able and disposed to pay at least part of their requisition quotas. Most of the rest had been derived from drafts on loans to the United States by Louis XVI of France and Dutch bankers, or from additional drafts on them for money which it was hoped they had made or would make available (NA: PCC, No. 137, II, 433–55; Syrett and Cooke, Papers of Hamilton description begins Harold C. Syrett and Jacob E. Cooke, eds., The Papers of Alexander Hamilton (15 vols. to date; New York, 1961——). description ends , III, 356–61).

2. After remarking that “all the other beligerent Powers have been disarming for months past,” Morris commented in his letter to the committee: “To express Doubts of the Sincerity of Britain on this Subject is I know a fashionable but in my Opinion a very foolish Language. We have the best Evidence of their Sincerity which the Nature of Things will admit for we know they are unable to carry on the War and we see & feel that they are passing every Act and doing everything in their Power to conciliate our Affections” (Syrett and Cooke, Papers of Hamilton description begins Harold C. Syrett and Jacob E. Cooke, eds., The Papers of Alexander Hamilton (15 vols. to date; New York, 1961——). description ends , III, 360).

3. Except for FitzSimons and Wilson of Pennsylvania, all the delegates who favored “furloughing” represented the states providing the troops in Washington’s army. For this reason a sectional distribution of votes defeated JM’s motion, seconded by Carroll, to recommit the committee’s report and, later in the session, the motion to adopt the report. These tallies also reveal that Peters, a member of the committee, had not agreed with its recommendation (JCC description begins Worthington Chauncey Ford et al.,
eds., Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774–1789 (34
vols.; Washington, 1904–37). description ends , XXIV, 359, 360–61).

4. Walke to Delegates, 3 May, and nn. 2, 5; JM to Randolph, 6 May, and nn. 5, 6; 13 May; JM to Jefferson, 13 May; Delegates to Harrison, 20 May 1783, and n. 3. Although Ralph Izard drafted the motion, Mercer introduced it and later wrote “withdrawn” below the text (NA: PCC, No. 36, II, 127; JCC description begins Worthington Chauncey Ford et al.,
eds., Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774–1789 (34
vols.; Washington, 1904–37). description ends , XXIV, 361, and n. 1). Hamilton evidently believed it to be impolitic to make “discharging and furloughing” depend upon the continuing occupation of New York City by the British and their refusal to surrender the slaves there to their alleged owners. Regarding these as three separate issues, he supported the wish of Washington and Morris to reduce the size of the main army; introduced on 26 May a motion protesting “the British seizure of Negroes belonging to citizens of the United States”; and, three days later, a motion informing Washington of Congress’ desire that “the evacuation of New York and its dependencies may not be retarded by a preference to that of any other place” (JCC description begins Worthington Chauncey Ford et al.,
eds., Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774–1789 (34
vols.; Washington, 1904–37). description ends , XXIV, 363–64, 368; JM Notes, 26 May 1783, and nn. 1, 2).

5. Neither the “Report” nor the motion is mentioned in the journal for 23 May. See JM Notes, 15 May 1783, and n. 1.

7. In a letter of 20 May 1783, Stephen Higginson, a delegate from Massachusetts, informed Samuel Adams: “There are those also among us who wish to keep up a large force, to have large Garrisons, to increase the navy, to have a large diplomatic Corps, to give large Sallaries to all Our Servants. Their professed view is to strengthen the hands of Government, to make us respectable in Europe, and I believe, they might add to divide among Themselves and their Friends, every place of honour and of proffit. but it is easy to see where all this will lead us, and Congress I think is not yet prepared for such Systems” (Burnett, Letters description begins Edmund C. Burnett, ed., Letters of Members
of the Continental Congress (8 vols.; Washington, 1921–36). description ends , VII, 167). Hamilton surely was one of “those among us” to whom Higginson referred (Syrett and Cooke, Papers of Hamilton description begins Harold C. Syrett and Jacob E. Cooke, eds., The Papers of Alexander Hamilton (15 vols. to date; New York, 1961——). description ends , III, 351–53). See also JM to Jefferson, 10 June 1783.

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“Notes on Debates, 23 May 1783,” Founders Online, National Archives, version of January 18, 2019, https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-07-02-0040. [Original source: The Papers of James Madison, vol. 7, 3 May 1783 – 20 February 1784, ed. William T. Hutchinson and William M. E. Rachal. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1971, pp. 66–68.]

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