Ask the Readers: How to Face a Family Financial Crisis?

With the arrival of the GRS staff writers, the semi-regular “ask the readers” column has a new home. Look for this feature most weekends. “Ask the readers” is your chance to get (and give) advice about real-life financial dilemmas.

An anonymous GRS reader submitted a question last week that hits close to home:

I have a family member that this past year has been in serious financial trouble. He is one of the most ambitious and intelligent people I know and I would have never imagined him getting in this kind of trouble. His ambition may have been his downfall as he keeps shooting for the stars and has fallen short on some of his business ideas, which may have put him in a more vulnerable position when the economy turned south.

He is now living in debt and struggling to put food on the table for his wife and four young boys. He has had to live on credit cards for several months and they are all maxed out. I have never seen first-hand anyone in this much trouble.

My question to you is, When faced with job loss and depleted savings, how can you avoid going into credit red? At what lengths would you go to to avoid living on credit cards and missing payments on just about everything? In the situation, is credit rating even worth anything?

As I say, this situation hits close to home. Last year, I wrote about my little brother, Tony. (I say “little brother”, but he’s 36 now.) Tony’s family got caught up in the mortgage mess, buying a home in Bend, Oregon at the height of the bubble — and before their home in Portland had sold. Six months earlier and things would have been fine. But things weren’t fine. They couldn’t sell either house. The market went to hell and they lost both homes to foreclosure.

Tony now faces circumstances similar to those described in the question above. He’s learning that there’s no easy solution to a family financial crisis. His father-in-law recommends “earning your way out of the problem”. That’s a fine theory, but not always practical. Tony and his wife work hard, but they’re only able to earn so much. I think that he — and people in similar situations — should also:

Cut spending to the bare minimum. This can be difficult. It can be tough to shift from normal spending to frugality, especially if you’re accustomed to middle-class luxuries and a middle-class lifestyle. But when facing a financial crisis, it’s imperative to reduce spending as much as possible and as soon as possible. You must stop the bleeding before you can treat the wound, before it can heal.

Consider drastic measures. Sometimes it’s not enough to stop the bleeding. To stretch the metaphor, sometimes you need to amputate. If you’re in a financial crisis, you may have to take drastic action, maybe even selling a car — or your home. Most people are unwilling to consider steps like these, which only leads them further into debt. These folks need to…

Be brutally honest. It’s easy to say, “I’m in trouble now, but it’s only for a month or two. I’ll keep doing things as normal by using my credit cards.” If you find yourself in a financial crisis, try to take an objective look at your situation. Get outside advice from friends and family. Be willing to listen to what they tell you. Sometimes others are better able than we are to see the slack in our budgets.

Avoid touching retirement savings. When faced with financial peril, it’s easy to look at the large sums sitting in your retirement accounts and think they’ll provide the life preserver you need. In nearly every instance, though, you’re merely postponing the pain. Your retirement savings are there to provide for you when you’re no longer able to provide for yourself. They’re not an emergency fund.

I’m sure that other Get Rich Slowly readers have family members in similar situations. Perhaps you’re even struggling yourself (or have done so in the past). Based on your experience, what advice can you offer other folks who are struggling in this economy? What can be done to avoid sinking deeper and deeper into debt?

And as an ancillary question, what can we do to help family members in need? What should we do? I’ve told Kris that if Tony and his family find themselves in danger of living on the street, we’ll make room for them in our house. But what about before that? At what point do I loan him money? (Or gift him money?) Or should I just be here to offer advice when he needs it?

GRS is committed to helping our readers save and achieve their financial goals. Savings interest rates may be low, but that is all the more reason to shop for the best rate. Find the highest savings interest rates and CD rates from Synchrony Bank, Ally Bank, and more.

Don't miss out - Subscribe to our newsletter for more articles on personal finance.

Wow, the comments help me put a lot into perspective. Truly, everything is relative. I thought of myself as being in dire financial straits because we are faced with having to fully support my never-worked-but-now-widowed-with-no-money mom for about five months until she can begin collecting my dad’s social security upon her 60th birthday. But I have a home (not the biggest or in the best shape but the mortgage is low), a job, my husband’s job is iffy but for now it’s there, and my 3yo son has everything he needs including his grandma as his caretaker while I work. I am truly blessed and pray for those whose circumstances I am learning about today. Let’s hope for better days soon.

loading....

April

We haven’t hit rock bottom. I still have a good paying job and we’re making our bills every month but it’s getting harder. Here’s what we’ve done this past year:

I have backup plans if I lost my job. My house would revert to the bank and my family would move in with my mother (I’ve already discussed this with her – though the chances are still remote for us). I’d look into social services to feed my family including food stamps, unemployment, and charity if need be. I’d apply for any and every job I could and I would contact everyone I knew from high school through today to put out feelers for me. If this wasn’t enough to feed, cloth, and house my family I would cash in my 401(k) and pray. A lot.

loading....

c holland

The perfect storm hit my (formerly?) middle-class family this year: My brother is in a slightly worse situation than yours (ill wife & job loss in which illness was a contributing factor leading to homelessness, they are now living with my Dad); my father is getting up towards 90 and his executive functioning (ability to make sound decisions) is crumbling which is impacting his financial health; my husband lost his job in December & I’m a stay-at-home mom — in my nuclear family, my sister is the only one with sufficient income at this point.

The good news is that we are relatively frugal & never assumed that things would always go well, thus the house and both cars are paid off and we’ve been buffered thus far by a large emergency fund. What hurts is not being able to take anything out of the pocket for brother or church (still pick up a few things to help Dad out when I visit). And to hear all the “good” advice I gave my brother echoing in my head (I can’t say that we’ve executed all that much of it ourselves at this point).

The three things we did after hearing about the layoff were:
– check into health savings accounts (but then the Cobra subsidy came along — praise the Lord! — and we’re going with that until it runs out at the end of November)
– I picked up a substitute teaching job through a Craig’s list ad (I can take “grunt” jobs without impacting my husband’s unemployment while he looks for another breadwinner job)
– figured out what we had to do to get licensed as a home daycare and have fixed up the house & put in the application for it

My husband is waiting to hear about a job with an old colleague & it’s looking promising (this is after 9 months of looking, mind you, and 9-15 months of looking before landing a job is not uncommon in his industry right now).

Like the family mentioned earlier, we have been maintaining some semblance of our former lifestyle (without the denial — we haven’t kept our situation a secret from family, friends, or church, but we haven’t accepted any financial help yet because we know there are others with equal need but less financial buffer).

But if that doesn’t come through, our next steps will be:
– if you can’t eat it, don’t buy it (I’d like to try doing this for short periods — maybe a week at a time — even when we manage to bring a new income source on tap so that we can rebuild savings)
– check into social services (as mentioned above)
– sell something, anything, maybe even lots of different types of things so that we will know how to do it to keep our savings from eroding further
– look at HSAs again (health care is the financial killer — $1300/mo for 2 adults and a child through hubby’s old company, maybe half that through HSA — will need to see whether child qualifies for state health care even if our savings disqualify us for a while)
– talk to my friends who have more practice at shoestring living to find out how they get by

The sacrifices of getting by on less that enough are real — I know because I lived on less than enough when I first got out of college. Here’s what I would anticipate: less heat, less driving (gas costs too much), less long-distance calls, drop the second phone line and broadband & go to the library to use the internet, more insecurity because of less (or no) insurance, higher anxiety about car and house maintenance, more postponing stuff that it would really be good to fix, or making impossible choices between different needs when something really does need to be attended to right away.

But we would not be alone — we are members of a great church and we live in a caring community (though our state HAS been hard hit and predictions are that things will be getting worse here).

I think the key is to see what you can do to expand your network when you don’t have money — volunteering is a great way to network with generous folk and find a way to continue to contribute when you don’t have much more than time to give.

loading....

Kevin@OutOfYourRut

Sarah (87)–Thank you! You said it better than I did!

loading....

Sarah

Kevin (85)–it’s shocking, isn’t it? A question about the best way to help a struggling family member turns into a festival of blaming the struggling. With the unemployment rate at 10% or more in many states (and that’s the official rate, which is well-known to understate), you’d think people would be less eager to blame others for their misfortunes.

I think offering services is a good way to help out–the use of your printer for resumes, contacts, babysitting for the kids so the parents can go to an interview, having them over for dinner, giving them rides if they’re down to one car or taking public transit, taking them to Costco with you if you have a membership. There are a lot of things like that that you can provide at little cost to you but which are disproportionately expensive if they have to be purchased individually (think taxi ride vs. getting a lift, the cost of Kinko’s vs. the use of someone’s printer). If they have kids, having them over for dinner is a great way to get closer and to take a burden off the parents without making them feel like they’re taking charity.

loading....

Cely

A few other things I thought of, if you’re in survival mode:

1. Check online for “forage” sites that give the location of public fruit trees in your area. Free, fresh produce.
2. Stalk the “free” section of craiglist, find items that need painting or fixing up, then do the work and sell the items yourself. If you have the skills, tools, and time, this could bring in $10-$100 a week. You’d have to balance out the cost of driving to pick up things, or the extra cost of supplies, against the possible profits.
3. Make sure kids are involved. I’m guessing allowances fall by the wayside during survival mode. They can set up a lemonade stand, mow lawns, or bake and sell homemade cookies to earn spending money.

loading....

Kevin@OutOfYourRut

Marie (83)–You’ve hit on a soft spot with the point about contacts–and thank you for going there!

Look at many of the comments on this thread–they put the blame for people’s troubles squarely on the people themselves. Now note that the two examples JD uses in the post are both in trouble because they TRIED! But what ever they were working on didn’t pan out.

This is real life folks–it isn’t always a persons fault that they got into trouble, it’s how things work sometimes especially when the economy is in a free fall.

Personally, I think we all (me included) have an inborn need to blame people for their troubles as a way of convincing ourselves that we’ll avoid the same fate. We think that we’re smarter, stronger, harder working, better prepared, etc, etc, and that bad things won’t happen to us. Some of the people going through hard times are going through paradigm shifts, so they may not behave in ways we think are appropriate, but we can all act that way when things take a turn for the worse.

But back to the contacts idea, rather than pouring salt in the wound, what do any of us do to help? Hooking people up with contacts is the least we can do, and often we don’t do that. People going through hard times could be any one of us; ask: “what would I need if I were down and out?”

A meal, some cash, a reference, a contact, a network, someone making some phone calls. Those are all positive steps to help someone who could be any one of us.

I agree that some people are in a mess by their own hand, but these are hard times. Do people need our judgement, or do they need our help??? And which is more constructive?

From the anecdotal stories I’ve heard of the Depression (from people who lived through it), it was all about people helping people. What causes us to be so hard today???

loading....

DDFD at DivorcedDadFrugalDad

Solid advice– I would add, stay cool and remember that you will get thru the tough times and hits that you take . . .

loading....

Marie

I’ve been out of work for over a year and despite doing everything right, the well is running dry. We don’t have consumer debt and we’ve been frugal, but you can only save so much. Our emergency fund and savings are gone.

What I want help with is CONTACTS. Give me the number of your hairdresser’s brother who needs someone in my field. Talk me up to your neighbors. Help me help myself.

loading....

sandy

If your wife is home with your kids, advertise that she’ll take in a few more. That’s what I did when I was a SAHM…there are alot of folks who may need someone for just a few hours per week…ask around your circle.
Also…what chacha said…if you haven’t started having a family…please do yourself a favor and decide how many kids you can afford before you have them. It will make your life a lot easier to afford 1-2 as 4-5 kids. Good luck.

loading....

Jennifer

Work like you have never worked before, at any and all jobs you can do. Deliver papers at night, work at McDonalds by day, if you can get the job do it. As for the wife. It is hard with 4 small kids, but when I had little ones I worked in my church nursery. I made $8 an hour, but sometimes that money helped us pay the bills that month. Also, try to do some in home childcare or offer to babysit evenings for other families.

As for what I would do if close family members of mine were in this situation I would look into making sure the lights stayed on for them and maybe drop a bag or 2 of groceries off at their house periodically.

loading....

Jane

“these day and ages of who read this blog – who hasn’t cut things to the bare bones?”

Lots of people. I have many friends and family who are unemployed and still go out to eat and have cable. My sister, who is recently divorced, unemployed, and one step away from bankruptcy, thinks that Goodwill is beneath her. Both her children (who are under ten) have cell phones. Yet, despite all this, she still regularly asks my parents and other family for money.

loading....

Shalom

Wendy (@60), I really like your post and your suggestions, and shortly may be using some of them with a family member — thanks!

loading....

Chris

I can’t give any advise beyond what is here. But this discussion is breaking my heart. It sounds as if there are so many people hurting, sometimes because of circumstances beyond their control, sometimes because they bought into a mythological life style that none of us can maintain. Either way they seem to be trying really hard to find a way out.

I suspect for many of these people going to social services, a family mamber, or a food bank is very difficult but I don’t think you should feel bad about doing that.

Take care and my best to all of those who find themselves unemployed.

loading....

Tall Bill

Buy several packages of seeds & plant things for stir fry in free containers & soil from Craig’s List & then get to Costco for 50# of rice. With just a couple more things from leftovers, etc, a family of 4 can get by for LESS THAN $5.00 PER MEAL. While week 3 or 4 may seem repetitive, stick to the plan & be careful about adding extras. Ground Beef has a much protein as steak of the same weight & even Peanut Butter works on many stir fry recipes, How low can you go is the buzz term of this time. Pray for Guidance & God Speed to all.

loading....

mike

JD. Love GRS. I am here because of the quicksand of crises that we’ve gone through. 2001 daughter born 72 days premature. Insurance covered most but not all. Then the dot com bubble burst and I was laid off. Out of work for 6 months. 2004 lost my job because I herniated 2 discs in my lower back. Out of work until I partnered with 2 others to launch a business. Worked at 30% of what I had been making. Did that for 18 months. Survived by doing all the things we shouldn’t do. Credit cards. Retirement money. Refinanced the house.

December 2008 – just starting to get traction on digging out – laid off again. We had started doing the debt snowball. Feb 2009 – daughter hospitalized for 15 days. Insurance – not as good as it once was – doesn’t pay for a lot of it. Thousands of dollars. It’s over. We file for bankruptcy.

Today – still no job. We are stripped down to barebones. 1 car payment. 1 mortgage. Utilities. I work under the table doing odd jobs to pay for my daughters dance class. I sell stuff on craigslist so we can go to a movie once in awhile.

The good news is that there is no going back. Forced to live within our means. We know what debt looks like. Its ugly. Ain’t going back. I will get a new job. It won’t be like the old ones. It will pay half of what I was making. But that is ok. Because most of it will go to rebuilding. And getting secure.

There was no choice. There was nothing left. So – now

loading....

chacha1

I love reading this kind of discussion, people on every side of the question are weighing in with civil and thoughtful comments. Well done!

The initial question is really tough, and my personal experience says “get 3-4 jobs” is not the answer. As many others have written, it’s not that easy.

Ambition and intelligence are not enough when it comes to a choice between staying in your home and feeding your family. I get the idea the troubled person is a homeowner and that the home cannot be easily sold. I’d suggest the family could reconfigure their home (combine kids’ bedrooms, etc) and get one or more housemates.

Something no one has really commented on is the four kids. For all those reading who have not yet embarked on procreation, use this as an object lesson and look at the numbers. Each child is projected to cost around $100K from age 0 to age 18. I understand that people don’t want to wait too long to start a family, but at least wait until you have MONEY SAVED and NO DEBT to start a family.

loading....

Linear Girl

Regarding using retirement funds: As with all else, it depends on your situation. If you own assets and have massive debts and bankruptcy would help you, then it makes sense to leave the retirement accounts alone. If you’re in a position where bankruptcy wouldn’t help you in any way, you’re broke, don’t have enough food, facing eviction, already sold everything, then of course you’d use your retirement savings to take care of your family. There is never a one-size solution to any problem, but it’s still sound advice to not touch the retirement savings unless you literally have no other resources.

loading....

Dana Booth

I was in a similar situation. While I’ve seen very little mention of bankruptcy, sometimes it is what’s needed. As long as one doesn’t abuse the option by declaring bankruptcy multiple times, it is there for such a situation. By the time we declared bankruptcy, our lawyer asked why we waited so long. He said it was pretty much a no-brainer with the amount of debt we had. We are still dealing with it and it can be very frustrating, but we expect to be through with this process by the end of the year (started in the spring). Meanwhile, after cutting what we thought was everything we possibly could, we cut into the food budget even more. Not easy to be sure, but we were able to finally meet monthly expenses. We still don’t have an emergency fund built up, but we’re finally seeing a light to starting one. We have a regular payment to the trustee that should be done by Christmas. Once we’re through with that, we will start the emergency fund with it. It’s not much and it’s slow, but it’s something. I’ve also started selling Tupperware. With my husband’s erratic work schedule and frequent evening meetings, this was my best option. Maybe they can find something with minimal investment to sell. If this doesn’t work, I will look for a graveyard shift job.

The positive of all of this is that we do get a fresh start, even with what now is bad credit and a so-so rental home, at least we have a place to live and care for each other and our kids and have learned a lot about creating a budget and sticking to it. Places like get rich slowly help a lot, too, so I would recommend they read a few good financial blogs.

These are all just ideas. Not one situation or solution fits everyone, but I hope that by telling some of what worked for me (or appears to be working anyway), maybe I can help the anonymous GRS reader. Good luck with everything.

loading....

TosaJen

A lot has been covered with the first question, so I’ll answer just the second. I have 2 kids and a SAH-spouse, so I’m in a similar demographic . . .

At what lengths would you go to to avoid living on credit cards and missing payments on just about everything? In the situation, is credit rating even worth anything?

— Creativity and flexibility are everything in dealing with crises. As soon as the words, “I would never”/”I would hate”/”I don’t want to”/”We can’t” come out of your mouth, it’s time to consider that very possibility, and think about how to make it work. Maybe that idea really won’t work, but I guarantee that you’ll come up with new ideas to consider by just working around the different assumption. We all have unexamined assumptions in the way we live our lives, and most could stand to be poked and tweaked.
— The kids would be full partners in understanding the situation as appropriate for their age and abilities to help. The Sesame Street program shown last week might be a good tool for families to talk about difficult economic times: http://www.sesameworkshop.org/toughtimes.
— I would check the laws of my state and talk to my creditors to see how much flexibility I have to deal with my debts, and follow the letter of the law. I would set up a plan within what I’m allowed to do and what will work best for my family, and work the plan. I think the credit rating is the last thing to worry about in a true crisis.
— Remember that family is supposed to be permanent, and economics are cyclical. Do everything you can to stay afloat, short of neglecting one another and endangering the future of your family. For example, I think it’s better to kill the college savings accounts but ensure your kids are learning what they need to succeed in later educational opportunities and outside your house. Spend time having cheap/free fun together; memories bind the family together.

(I would touch the retirement savings as a last resort. After bankruptcy.)

loading....

Been there Done that

I find the post on here actually reflect real life. It amazes me the out of work, going broke, no food to eat, my family is starving that will find reasons why they can’t work, or cut back, or fail to get hired. One of the best is I’m “over qualified” to be hired for a low level job. I called four fast food resturants and ask if my friend that has a masters degree applied for a job would they hired him. All wanted to know when he would start work. Did the same at Wal-mart and K-mart same answer as above, when can they start work. True I never went into the area that maybe this person could not work on week-ends, only could work between noon, like sleep in, and eight pm because I like to watch my favorites shows at night. Or like Kevin@OutOfYourRut says that the jobs don’t pay a “living wage”, this remark is on the level of I’m too good to work for anything less then union scale. Sorry if your family is going broke and hungry and this is your excuse for not working then the family needs to find a new “head of household”.
Back in the early 90’s, I was on the hiring committee for a company and you could always see through the person that was only appling so that they could get unemployment checks or did not want to work. These people could find every reason for not doing the job, from hours they had to work or did not pay enough. When your broke and your family is hungry then your not much of a person if you find reasons for not working.
I will help a person but I will not support a person.
Yes, I have been broke and the only thing that my family had left to eat by the end of the week was peanut butter and bread and I was working two jobs. Working two low paying jobs at the time made me feel more like a man and head of house hold then sitting at home making excuses for not working.
I think when you apply for unemployment, food stamps and welfare that the paper work is the same as a application for work and this is what they use to fill local jobs that are hard to fill. If you refuse to work then no free money.

loading....

David@DINKS Finance

I’m not certain of this, but aren’t retirement savings safe from bankruptcy? I think I heard it on Suze Orman, but I’m not entirely sure if that’s correct. If so, it’s a HUGE reason not to touch those accounts.

Also, I would have to say getting a job/second job should be a top priority. I don’t care if it’s at a fast food joint – cash is cash. Worst case you are delaying the inevitable, best case it will be a jumping-off point for a total financial turnaround.

loading....

Kevin@OutOfYourRut

I have to disagree with the article on not touching retirement savings. If your circumstances are as desperate as what’s described in the post, the retirement accounts are fair game. You’ve got kids to feed, and that’s a lot more important than planning for a future that may never happen.

A combination of two or three part time jobs, and maybe living with family may be the only salvation in the short run, if no job is available that’ll pay a living wage. Plus as the post says, getting rid of anything, the house, a car, that will bring in some cash and/or eliminate a debt or expense.

loading....

Courtney

When I was a kid, both my parents worked to make ends meet – but they split shifts. Dad worked full time 7:30-3:30 and was home by 4. Mom was a SAHM during the day (so that she was there for us before and after school), made dinner and put it in the fridge before she left, and then worked 5:00-whenever waiting tables. A setup like this avoided the need for a second car and daycare.

loading....

Regular Reader

Kandace,

Your situation has been implied at in other posts. It’s hard to help people who aren’t helping themselves. You don’t want the kids to suffer because the parents make bad choices, but you don’t want to subsidize bad decisions by the parents.

We are in the same boat with my sister-in-law. She and her husband are deadbeats. The occasionally work but I have never known either of them to hold a job longer than 10 months (4-5 months on average). They lose them due to smarting off, slacking off, etc. The parents are subsidizing but now my mother-in-law is out of work (personal problems, not the economy). DH and I have made it clear that we will give their kids a home and support them for as long as necessary, but the parents are not welcome to live in our house.

Tough love is called ‘tough’ for a reason. Some people need a hand up, but others need a swift kick in the butt. That’s why it’s hard to answer the question of how much to do for a family member because what they need is different. I wouldn’t let SIL move in, but my sister and her husband would be welcome to stay for as long as they needed because they wouldn’t WANT to. You would never see people try harder for a better situation if living with family were their only option. Versus SIL would sit on the couch eating bonbons while her husband played video games.

loading....

Kandace

My husband and I are facing this situation with a step-son and daughter-in-law. We let them move into a house we own, rent free, on the condition our son would go to nursing school. The rent was waived in lieu of helping with tuition. Things started okay, but then a criminal charge on his part won’t jive with nursing. The charge also came with court and attorney fees. They have a one-year old daughter and another baby due next week, so a working mom is out of the question right now.

We have tried to help, aside from the free rent. They needed a newer car and we offered an old van for them to use. But they turned it down and got another car, giving them two car payments. Meantime, I drive a 12 year old car.

They are now getting state assistance for food but they have maxed their credit cards for food, etc. However when we visit, I still see cable, Netflix, hundreds of DVDs unused–in short, very little sign they are trying to get out of the situation.

With new baby coming, we are going to give them a few more months free rent, but then put the house on the market. We are enabling their behavior and while it might seem like we are unsympathetic, drawing a line on our giving has to be done. Otherwise the situation will never change. It also impacts our retirement savings. We assume they will move in with a family member until the family member tires of helping them… Sorry for the sour grapes.

loading....

joejoeice

One way to help a family member or friend who is in financial trouble is to join them in going frugal. It will be easier for the person in trouble to do things that don’t cost money if they have somebody with them doing it also. Shopping at the goodwill by themselves may trigger shame, but doing it with a close friend and then both wearing the clothes later may seem like an adventure. In addition, even if you are not in the same danger, you will benefit from scaling back. It is kind of like a group of friends shaving their heads because someone in their circle is getting chemo.

loading....

olga

About “taking the job below”. I mived from Portland, OR to Austin, TX to start a new family and quit my old job. I am greatly qualified and my resume stands out, but…there are simply no jobs right now. Everwhere I go, hiring people look, get impressed and say “we wish”. When I look for “other” jobs, they consider me overqualifiued, not at all qualified in the field. As an immigrant, I always said “I’ll wash toilets”, apparently, to wash toilets you also need experience in washing toilets! Not a great way to start a new marriage, don’t you think? And while I am as frugal as they get, always had been, my fiance (not living above his means by any standards) is not ready to live below those means either. So, I feel like a burden sometimes more than a happy bride. Do we talk? yes. Does it lead much anywhere? Not so far, I just hope everything takes time. There is no debt involved yet (and hope it won’t), even though I had to sell my condo back in Portland so low, I owed almost $20k on it. But being without job with experience in a very specific field (bilogical research) and with 16 years to top it off (too expensive to hire) is kind of gloomy. Never in my life had I being in situation where I couldn’t provide. that is kind of depressing.

loading....

Anon2

I haven’t read all of the comments but one thing I haven’t seen much of is advice on what to do if the situation isn’t that you are hurting but your family member or cloase friend is hurting. My wife and I are trying to tighten everything up right now. But we’re young and have student loan debt and it’s sort expected for us to have loans and things we’re paying off. We make mistakes and we’re learning which frugal choices work for us and which don’t. What worries me and what worries my wife in the back of her mind is her parents. Her dad has been in financial tights spots for a long time now but it’s just him and he is able to works as much as he needs. And fortunately he has a job that he can keep for a long time. Her mom has more stuff but is supporting two parents and a college-age son. Her husband is now working two jobs but they are still taking care of her dad (who has congestive heart failure) and her husband’s dad (who has regular dialysis). That is a major strain both financially and emotionally. Her son has always had a bit of trouble with school so forcing him to get a job isn’t the best idea, yet. And they aren’t on the streets yet either. But they are behind on some things and eventually my wife and I know we’ll be asked for help. It may not be for 20 years when the whole situation has changed. But it may be in 6 months while we are still working hard to get by.
We both know that we may have to just say ‘no’ sometimes or we can only offer what we can. Does anyone have advice for how to do that without straining the situation? We are trying to make better choices than our parents because we have to opportunity to make those choices, but we don’t want to be estranged from them.

loading....

P

It is easy to give suggestions when you are not in their shoes. Sometimes good people get in bad times and misery loves company so things piles up and before you know it, you are in over your head.

I know what I am talking about, because I am there right now. a few years ago, dh and I made good money in tech industry, I got laid off, got pregnant, had a medical condition during pregnancy, had premmie baby, dh lost his job, we did all right things such as bought smaller house before, had no CC debts etc, bought car with cash but now with private health insurance and medical cost for my son’s medical issues (even with insurance) is costing us $15k (for the hospital bills, that insurance did not pay, without insurance bill was $42k. I can not go get a job as I have 2 kids, we sell items and we get like 20% of original price paid, fine but not a income to survive on. We try to sell our cars and house, but price on both has gone down so much, it just makes sense to keep them till it die rather then selling at a huge loss.

Interviews are far and few in between, we have cut down on all stuff, such as cable, eating out, some services, newspaper etc, but there is so much you can do. We had 6 months of emergency funding which is sustaining us now, but not for long. Many times, everyone in money trouble is not a dead beat. System is set up that way that most people fail when 10 things go wrong at once.

loading....

Becky

Anon: (#59)

Consider moving to the area where your son has therapy. Why not? If there is nothing where you live, how could it be worse? It would save you an incredible amount on driving costs and free up a lot of time.

How to come up with the money for the move? I don’t know. Usually it would come from family, yard sale, etc. I suppose it depends on how broke you are. If you are broke, how are you getting to the therapy? Someone has money somewhere to put gas into the car. Is it all on c/c? You have to pay a minimum on the c/c bill or you will be in trouble.

I’d suggest your dh keep putting in his 50 resumes. Try leaving off college. Put N/A where it asks for college if it is a McDonalds job. 😉 See what happens.

I’ve heard of the overqualified problem. My bro-in-law had something similar years ago. He had a BA and they wouldn’t hire him at McD’s because he was overqualified. He couldn’t find ANYTHING. They moved.

loading....

Wendy

When I was growing up, my family was very poor and one thing that really helped us was Sunday dinner at my Grandmother’s house. She cooked an enormous feast of decent, healthy food and sent my mother home with two grocery bags of leftovers every week. To spare my mother’s pride she said, “I don’t know what I was thinking, cooking so much food. Norm and I will never be able to eat all of this before it spoils. Please take it so that it will not go to waste.” As children, we just thought that Grandma could just never learn to cook less. We never knew we were being given charity.

Also, Grandma gave us a complete set of underwear and socks every birthday. It was treated as something of a joke, but we really appreciated it. Poor families can usually get clothing and even shoes for their kids, but you can never find used underwear or socks. And believe me, when you have been wearing underwear two sizes too small for a couple of years, you are really grateful for something fresh that does not bind.

I have a relative who is an out-of-work finish carpenter. After a year, he had run through all of his savings and had to move in with his father. We used the money that we normally give to charity to hire him to do work in our house. Afterwards, we pointed out the lovely work to anyone who came over, telling them that my relative is usually not available to do small jobs as he normally works in multi-million dollar houses, but with the economy the way it is, we were able to snag him and he was so inexpensive. He got four jobs that way.

Most people want to work and want to be independent. The best thing that you can do is help support that. Hire them for small jobs and talk up the quality of their work (if they do a good job). Give them “extra food” that you cannot use. Bring them a gas gift card to help them get to interviews. If you know of job opportunities, pass them along. At Christmas, a nice gesture would be to pay one of their utility bills.

You cannot fix their problems, they have to do that, but small gestures like these can really ease their burdens.

loading....

Anon

Not everywhere has the jobs available though… When you have 10x the people looking for work then there are jobs, only a certain amount of people are going to get them, and it’s the kids in high school, that have almost no job experience that get the jobs because that is what is available.

My husband and I were both working (I had a job and he had two) to support our family, but because of medical/family issues, I had to go on full leave from work back in March. And due to the economy, he just lost both of his jobs 5 weeks ago. So we went from floating, to surviving, to struggling.

Because he has an AA, most places around here won’t hire him, because what is available is all entry level and he is “over qualified” for the position. He’s applied for over 50 jobs in the last month and still can’t find work.

We rent a house that is already too small for us for cheaper then we could get any apartment in this state (trust me, I’ve looked).

We can’t sell either of our two cars because we live in the middle of nowhere and our oldest son has therapy appointments 2 hours away that take up most of the daylight hours in the week and the nearest bus stop is at least a 30 min drive from our house. So between those appointments and searching for work, we need to have both cars.

We don’t have cable, we have free dial-up, we already get food assistance. So does anyone have any suggestions of what might be feasible for the family that’s done everything they can but are still sinking?

loading....

Anonymous GSR Reader

I am the Anonymous GRS Reader that sent in this question and I am so thankful for all the helpful comments. I am here and reading and happy to add any details to the conversation.

Something that I have already taken away from this (and I havent read all the comments yet, quite a response! I should have expected nothing less from such a great blog and community) is that this is survival mode.

I stayed with this family for two nights during a vacation and they were certainly in survival mode as far as purchasing went. They had a garden packed with veggies and fruits obviously planted ahead of time. They made every last thing in their fridge, as empty as it was, stretch to the last drop. But they do have quite a bit of “stuff” that could be sold off (aside from Plasma, they already do that) and I will certainly run that by them and offer to help get listings up on the net and whatnot.

Thanks again for all the comments and to GRS for posting my question.

loading....

elena

For people with children:
Free or reduced fee school breakfast & lunch programs. Fill out an application even if you aren’t sure you’ll qualify.

I found it really awkward to help from far away. I sent cards and called often. I offered to pay to continue child care for a few weeks so my sister could job search and keep her spot. I paid the sitter directly for a couple of weeks.

loading....

Mr. Not the Jet Set

Flat out, this is an income crisis. Selling your stuff, and cutting to the bone are only short term fixes and only address one side of the equation.

And I won’t accept the answer that jobs aren’t out there. I live in MICHIGAN, and there are jobs here. I’ve seen this time and time again – people out of work for over a year, because they won’t take off the blinders. I don’t care what the job is. Start a business – mow lawns, open a day care, house cleaning, start consulting…. do SOMETHING.

Too many people are looking for a quick mechanical fix to this problem. Sadly, it doesn’t exist.

loading....

Nekonemo

Lots of good ideas for saving and prioritizing here. Those who said to act quickly are absolutely right. Continuing to spend as if there’s a windfall right around the corner will lead to just digging a much bigger hole to have to climb out of. The elephant in the corner is that it’s really hard to admit to people (even family) that you’ve fallen on hard financial times. There are so many emotions at play that make it difficult for folks to make the types of changes needed to dig themselves out before hitting rock bottom. So my advice is to send out a mass email or whatever and just say “Times are tough due to X. We’re tightening the belt. Not asking for hand outs, just wanted to let you know that if we turn down the invite to see a movie or meet for a meal at a restaurant that’s why.” Once it’s out in the open, it’s easier to look realistically at what needs to be done (taking a lower paying job, moving, selling cars and houses). Admiting to your friends and family that you have to take drastic measures helps take off the pressure to keep up appearances and helps sweep out some of the emotional baggage that keeps you from acting quickly to get back on track financially.

loading....

amanda

Dan: I think the better way is to re-think your spending if your only options are credit cards and retirement savings.

I went back and looked at the original question:

“When faced with job loss and depleted savings, how can you avoid going into credit red? At what lengths would you go to to avoid living on credit cards and missing payments on just about everything? In the situation, is credit rating even worth anything? ”

And I’m back to the want/need continuum. Because part of the problem is that you shouldn’t be making these calls at the point of depleted savings. When you start spending your savings–that is when you buckle down and start making cuts to your budget. That is part of living in reality.

And … “missing payments on just about everything” smacks of a whole other problem: buying on credit. I get that it is a rare bird who can pay cash for a home but cars, computers, whatever — don’t take on payment plans! It is a gamble you take to push yourself into the appearance of an income bracket you aren’t really in. Live within your means. Save up for the things you want.

loading....

Suzanne Muusers

There are always things you can cut if you need to, but some people push back at the thought of not having a cell phone, not being able to watch their favorite cable shows (even though cable costs them $90 per month!), having two cars is convenient, and working on the weekends, that would mean I wouldn’t get my “down” time. We need to revise our values and determine if all the fancy “must have’s” are really necessary.

loading....

Marco L

@Been there Done that

Thanks for that brilliant post. It has bolstered my dedication to keep my 9 year old car (bought new, stil runs very well *knocks on wood*) and continue to live well below my means. Thanks for sharing.

As for the family of 6, follow everybody’s advice. Cut out everything but the bare essentials. Try to find work – any work. But ultimately, sad to say, the situation has gotten far out of hand. It will be extremely painful to turn it around. Godspeed.

loading....

mary

Two jobs that pay well and most people can do right away…but usually don’t want to. Mowing yards pays about $25 to 40 per hour (at least in the Houston area) and being a housekeeper/maid ($15 to 25 per hour). Every place I’ve lived in Texas, there have not been enough or “good enough” landscape and household help available. You don’t have to buy clothes or pay for advertizing. Just hand out flyers, knock on doors, tell friends and family. These jobs can be done on weekends or after hours. If you don’t have a mower and edger, that’s where family can help. When my son was in this situation, he asked for a loan to buy the mower and paid me back first out of his earnings. Of course, I then used the money to buy him grocery and gas cards. These jobs could add several hundred dollars each month to your income by working only on weekends. Older kids can help.

Other jobs, cutting wood, handyman, computer fixer, typing for college students, temp work, substitute school teacher, home concierge. All can be had by most folks if you have a few skills. Mostly you just have to see the need and be willing.

And for those of you who say but, of course, everyone has already cut to the bone, I has that’s living in a dreamworld. I know folks who are on the bankruptcy cliff and would say they have cut to the bone. But they still live in the 2800 sq ft house, drive multiple cars and pay for cell phones (for all), have cable, netflix. They have cut way back on entertainment, clothing, shopping in general, use coupons for food, etc. But there are still hundreds of dollars a month that are wasted on non-essentials. To me, nothing is as stressful as living in debt, being without a job or income. Living without TV, cell phone, internet, etc. is not fun, but not that stressful either.

To weather the economic crisis in our semi-retirement, we moved from a large inner city townhouse, to a rent house and just recently bought a 40k cabin in the country (payments went from $2000 to $1400 to $336 per month). We live without cable and without landlines. It is not so much that we don’t have the money, but we want it to last in case the economy doesn’t turn around quickly enough. We both increased our part-time work to insure our solvency and so as not to have to depend on credit. Both of us have been poor in our lives before and both of us have dealt with major credit card debt. We never want to have to live with that again.

loading....

malingerer

“Avoid touching retirement savings…” ya, but if the world has fallen apart and the money is there you may have no choice. As it truly is an emergency fund; whether it’s for now or later..

loading....

Brenda

I’d like to throw in some advice about getting a job ‘that’s beneath you’, since I see a lot of folks that assume it’s easy to get a retail job.

Here’s the catch: If you’re a successful business who lost his/her job and are taking on a retail job in the interim to make ends meet to avoid going further in debt, you have to be VERY careful how you word your application and how you speak in the interview. If the retail employer knows your situation, it is unlikely you will be hired at all, because the manager knows you’ll jump ship the instant something better comes along. It’s called being ‘overqualified’, and I’ve seen plenty of my friends not be able to get work due to that and who had to modify the way they applied for jobs.

The best way to word things if you’re trying to get a retail job is to say “you mainly freelance” and “are just looking for some permanent retail work on the side to help make ends meet”. It makes retail employers feel slightly less apprehensive about you jumping ship when things do improve.

Also, don’t expect full-time retail work. It’s really hard to find. Everyone seems to want to hire part-time these days to cut costs, so you’ll most likely have to take on several part-time retail jobs, instead of 1 or 2 full time ones.

loading....

Little House

In the early 2000’s, my husband and I ran into a similiar situation. We were maxed out on our credit cards, I lost my job, my husband’s business wasn’t earning any income. We were in big trouble. We even got evicted in 2001, luckily, that came off my credit report this year!

We learned the hard way, which, sometimes, is the best way to learn. We never mentioned anything to our family members. I worked 2 jobs and we cut our costs. We royally screwed up our credit, but we are now in the process of fixing it. Luckily, we didn’t have children (and still don’t). I would have been panicking if we had children!

Hopefully, your brother will learn from his mistake, take on extra work, and cut costs. Obviously, if things get so bad that they haven’t a place to live, they will need to ask for help.

I truly feel people learn from their mistakes, they need some guidance on what to do, but not necessarily in the form of money, and spousal or family support.

Good luck-
Little House

loading....

Dan

Thanks Suzzane and Frank, that makes more sense now.

Yea if you’re going to go into bankruptcy either way, it doesn’t make sense.

I guess taking out Roth IRA money would still be ok though…

Here is the situation I was thinking about:
My uncle who is approaching retirement age (56) and has saved up a lot of retirement money in IRAs and 401Ks (over 1 million). However he’s been out of a job for awhile and is struggling with cash flow. It hasn’t come to this yet – but i have suggested to him if worse comes to worse he could take some retirement money out early instead of going into major credit card debt. I believe you take money out at 59.5, so he only has to last a few more years anyway. I’m no financial expert though, so there could be a better way…

loading....

Financial Samurai

Dear Anon GRS reader who posted this question. I read your question again, and unless I have poor reading comprehension, why do you end asking how YOU can avoid going deep into debt, instead of asking JD and the readers how you should HELP your family member?

It’s like watching some reporter, reporting on poverty and starvation with a sick mother and child in the background. We’re not sure whether the report, cameraman and crew proceed to help out once the camera stops rolling.

Help your family member!

loading....

mick

Re recommending selling the car…

Sometimes the only thing a person has to sell is a car; may not be able to sell it due to loan or lease requirements and/or acquire a cheaper car or can only acquire a car in questionable running condition compared to the currently held car.

If you live in a local with no public transportation (there are more places without transport than with, including USA cities), what sense does it make to sell your car? No car = no work. Carpooling is not necessarily an option for those people who transferred to keep a job that they ultimately lost. In today’s transient society, it is unrealistic to think that people will automatically have a support network that can help make up the gap.

So you sit at home waiting for the Sheriff to evict you from your rental?

At least you can live in a car if you have to.

loading....

Suzanne

To Dan #7, there are a couple of reasons not to use retirement savings.

First, it’s very expensive to use. You pay a 10% penalty plus taxes. If you’re in a 28% tax bracket, you’ll pay nearly 40%. So if you take out $100,000 out of your account you can only spend $62,000 of it.

Second, as someone already mentioned, if this person is in such dire straits, using retirement savings will likely only be delaying the inevitable bankruptcy. In bankrupty, retirement savings (in an IRA or 401k) cannot be touched. So they may well be spending their future unnecessarily.

loading....

Financial Samurai

If you are a family member consider your loan as a gift and write it off mentally. Sure, your family member in need may say they will pay it off, but mentally expect NOTHING back. Give it to them straight.

loading....

frugalscholar

My sister-in-law, the child of immigrants, has a banking job. But she has said many times that she would “clean toilets” if she had to. I think she’s quite serious. And, if she did all she could, I would be happy to take her and her family in.

loading....

mimi

I don’t quite get panicked emails/questions like the one in this blog posting. The answer is really quite simple and obvious — slash spending and lifestyle and get as many extra, temporary jobs as it takes to stay afloat. There’s no fancy answer or magic bullet. Go get as many part-time jobs as it takes while you are looking for the career-type position. Retail, babysitting, mowing lawns, pizza delivery, whatever…these jobs or others like them are always available if you’re a competent applicant in any economy. In most cases, it’s possible to bring in enough cash to avoid credit card debt in the short-term through less-than-ideal jobs if you’re willing to work a ton, get creative and take jobs that are “beneath” you. And slash spending and lifestyle in small and big ways. I’m amazed by how few people consider selling homes, cars and other big items. It’s as if Americans think that once we obtain a certain standard of living, we are entitled to keep it no matter what. Downscale and shed items that you bought on credit.

loading....

amanda

I have a couple of friends who really struggle with the want-need continuum. Two, exactly. Both are struggling with relatively modest amounts of credit card debt ($5-6K, which for a working adult with no kids ought to be pretty easy to shake) and both know their way around Ikea in a way that I just don’t. They “need” things like organizers for magazine archives; coordinating kitchen hook thingies; more organizers. That is what I notice the most. There are parts of my home that I know would benefit from more thoughtful shelving (the CDs, mostly. I kind of do need real shelves for that teetering towering menace) but the expense seems a little overwhelming in the face of a real estate market where my husband and I can barely afford to buy a two bedroom condo. So that $40 has stayed in the bank.

If you’re living on credit, you’ve already failed to really ask “Can I afford it” (see “should I buy” flowchart …) and the question that you need to be asking is “Can I live with out this for the moment?” and you have to keep stretching that moment until you’re paying cash for everything you need.

I don’t know the right way to be a good friend to someone who is in over their heads, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t about financial assistance. You can help shift their social expectations, though. Invite them over or propose popcorn and a DVD or an afternoon at the park if you want to get together, instead of proposing activities that require an entrance fee.

Offer to take the kids for a day so the adults can have some time alone together — financial crises are hell on relationships. Especially if one end of the partnership was caught unawares by the family’s shifting financial picture..

loading....

ebyt

It isn’t clear to me from the post whether or not the reader’s relative actually has a job or not. If he doesn’t have a job, then he needs to do whatever he can to find one. Make contacts. ASK people. I got my current job as well as my part-time job just by asking contacts if they had any positions open for me. My university degree of course helped show them I am qualified for my jobs, but without asking for the jobs they would not have just fallen into my lap. Be resourceful.

To avoid sinking deeper and deeper into debt, like JD said, some things that are tough to part with must go. If the car is being financed and relatively new, sell it for an older model. If public transport will do, take it, and get rid of the car altogether. Sell jewelery. Sell the house.

Be frugal. No more little luxuries. It’s amazing what you can live without. They say that it takes 2 weeks to break a habit. Try giving up things that you never thought you would, and you’ll be amazed how easy it is after only 2 weeks. In such a dire situation, I would recommend eliminating ALL wants, but typically it’s best to be frugal and allow yourself a small treat once in a while so you don’t go nuts.

Does his wife work or stay at home? Weigh the cost of childcare vs. her working and see if it costs more for her to be at work or at home.

I recommend that he immediately calls his credit card companies so that he can ask if the interest rates can be reduced. Even if the card rate itself can’t be reduced, he probably can switch to a cheaper card.

I am currently paying off debt I acquired while I went to school. A lot of it is stupid debt, and now that I am in the “real world” with bills and potential job loss (you never know!), I am doing pretty much everything I can to get out of debt quickly. I say pretty much because I allow myself little treats once in a while. Once I am out of debt I will save like crazy. I never EVER want to be in a position where I have to resort to credit cards for basic expenses. I lose sleep over my current finances… everything is ok as long as I am employed… but if something bad does happen, I am screwed basically. I am very happy that I will be out out debt in the next 6 months or so. I got my part-time job to speed up my debt repayment process.

I wish the reader’s relative good luck. It is scary to get into a bad financial situation… especially with 4 kids. Hopefully it’ll all work out though, and they will come out of it even stronger. When I’m in a bad situation I like to remember the phrase “this too shall pass”.

loading....

kim

I know this doesn’t answer the question that was asked, but many people seem to be saying don’t help by lending to a family member. I think If you want to help out your family member then maybe instead of lending them money give them grocery or gas cards as gifts, or a family pass to the zoo so they can do something with their kids without having it be a stress on the family finances. Giving these things freely can show that you recognize that they are in a tough spot and are supporting them, without creating a tense money lending relationship. In the past we have given free rent to a friend for 5 months and assistance to a family member via grocery and gas money, knowing we were gifting these and not counting on anything in return. These things were all within our own budget and did not end up straining our relationships.

loading....

brian@FinanceAnswers

I think there are two very important points JD made when faced with this situation:

1. Be brutally honest:
Don’t run from the problem, instead take it head on. If you were the cause, take responsibility and ask yourself, “What can I learn from this?” If it were out of your control, then mentally reframe the situation, ask yourself these questions: Has anyone been in a similar situation and come out stronger? What can I learn from this? What opportunities are hiding in this circumstance? Try to consciously maintain an internal locus of control… this isn’t an easy thing to do and takes constant practice.

2. Avoid touching retirement savings
Do not, do not, do not touch your retirement savings. These accounts, if set up correctly, are creditor protected meaning if you file bankruptcy your creditors can’t come after this money. The same applies to money in life insurance policies, do not cash out your policies, as this creditor protected also. For example, let’s say you have $35k in an IRA and you have $15k in a whole life policy. You have $60k in debt, maybe from a failed business. Say you cash out these so you have $15k from your life insurance and $24k from your retirement. ($35k x income tax of 25% x early withdrawal penalty of 10% = $23,625) So you pay off $39k of debt, are you out of debt yet? No. Are you still at risk of having to declare bankruptcy? Yes. Let’s say worst case scenario, you claim chapter 7 bankruptcy, so after the proceedings instead of having $50k for your retirement you know have $0k. You took protected money and by transferring it out made it vulnerable to creditors. Please don’t make this mistake.

loading....

Linear Girl

Shara – Great plan. I’ve got mental versions of plans, but it reminds me that I need to sit down with my guy to discuss his mental plans to make sure we’ve got similar trigger points for making those kinds of changes. We usually do, but it’s dumb of me to assume we’re on the same page. Congrats on getting through this and having the plan in place to do so.

loading....

cely

I am very fortunate to not be in this situation, but I think about it all the time. I am building up my emergency fund even further for just this reason.

My best friend and I have talked about worst-case scenarios. He owns a house, I own a condo. If things went horribly south for me, I could sell my condo (at a loss if needed) and move in with him. We’ve talked about options for him as well; luckily he has family here with room for him if needed. We’re very open with each other about what might happen, what we could do, how we could help each other. We know many people who have been laid off and are trying to help by providing job ideas, networking, and inviing everyone over for summer BBQs instead of going out for drinks and food.

Other ideas I’ll offer (just brainstorming)…instead of just cutting back on groceries, I would make sure to look around for discount grocers, cheap produce stands, or other “scratch and dent” food stores. I use a local produce stand that gets second-tier produce (delicious but not pretty) and it saves me more than 50% off grocery store prices.
If you don’t belong to Costco, find a friend who does, and stock up on things you know you’ll need (as long as they are really cheaper).
Be sure to use craigslist. Sell stuff, look for jobs, create your own work by listing yourself under the “services” section. You could walk dogs, clean houses, haul stuff (if you have a truck), do sewing/mending, anything you’re good at. Even people with jobs are looking to spend less on services so hiring through craigslist is appealing.

It might be difficult but I would make sure that your circle of friends and family know how serious your position is. Most people are more than willing to help, you just have to ask. I don’t mean that you need to ask for money, but if people know you’re in dire straits they could send you ideas for jobs, even hire you for something they need done; bring over food, babysit for you, proofread your resume, take you places by car if you need to sell your vehicle(s)…I know that personally I would be MORE than willing to help a friend who was going through a financial crisis…these days it could be any of us who might need a hand.

loading....

Shara

I acknowledge that sometimes bare bones budgets aren’t enough to keep you from getting in a deeper hole, but “bare bones” is something people describe differently. To some people bare bones is cancelling the movie channels and eating sirloin steaks instead of fillet. It’s amazing what you can survive if it really means something to you.

I have watched a number of families get in over their heads. Usually it is a logical outcome of bad decisions, I know there is no going back once the bill collectors are at the door, but at the same time we need to acknowledge this fact.

I recently had a mini-version of this. We had renters declare bankruptcy and milk the system (and our ignorance) to live in the house for free for months. When you have to cover two house payments for eight months that can put a huge strain on your finances. I have layers of budgets written. In this case we didn’t have to go beyond the first layer: dropping our 401k contributions to the minimum and cutting all discretionary spending in half. But I have a budget written for more extreme cuts. In that case cable and phone go, food gets cut, daycare gets cut back (my mom is available to help but I don’t like to rely on her unless I have to).

When buying/selling stocks there you can set trigger points. I do the same with my savings. When specific situations happen I will do something. When my savings are down to $X I will sell my car. When I have been out of work for X months I will put my house on the market.

Husbands and wives need to talk about reasonable (and some unreasonable) scenarios of what to do if X happens so you’re not emotional if/when it does. DH and I discuss what to do if one of our parents die (going through their stuff, etc.), if one of us loses a job, and so forth. When something DOES happen we don’t do EXACTLY what we discussed, but we are on the same page.

loading....

Chickybeth

My take on loaning money to people in these situations is that it never does any good. I have been the person receiving the loans and at the time, I thought it was a make-or-break situation and that my life would be ruined without the loan. Now, the person hangs the loan over my head so I will do what she wants. In retrospect, had I not taken the loan and just dealt with the problem on my own, I would be in a much better financial position than I am in today. What I really needed was support, a listening ear, and someone to help me look up information to help me fix the problem by myself.

If you do loan money to people who are struggling to get by, just picture taking the money and setting it on fire. Most likely the people will never truly be able to afford to pay you back and it will kill your relationship, so if you want to give money, then just let it go.

loading....

jj

I would advise in some situations, the SAHM spouse should explore part-time job options. Not easy, I know, but it’s better than having one spouse get 2 jobs to support the family. Plus, if the wife is able to get a job, having 2 people with work skills is a better buffer against future lay-offs.

I know it’s not easy but I saw my mom do it, taking very menial jobs until she worked her way up to management many many years later. It was hard but do-able since us kids were a little older.

loading....

Sam

Most experts advise against lending money to family, but over the years I received loans and gifts from my family and loaned and gifted money back to family. My mom had a business that went south and she kept investing money into the business until she was basically broke. I helped her out (and the money I gave to her was from 0% credit card checks – dumb dumb dumb) but she was my mom and she needed the help. I think now, that I know a lot more, I would require a commitment to change from the family member, I would only lend cash money (not plastic money).

My mom finally gave up the business, she is happily retired with money in the bank.

loading....

april c

The way I see it, if someone in your family is hurting financially you do everything that you can reasonably do to help them. This does not mean tapping your emergency savings to help them keep their house or car. It means letting them stay in your house for free (if you know they are not going to take advantage of you) or a for a stupidly low rent to make make up the difference in utilities and food. Also loaning your car so they can go to job interviews, saving coupons for them on items that they use, and purchasing extra food for them when its on sale for a good price (call them before you buy it if you expect to be paid back). Other options might be letting them use your internet/computer and giving them old furniture that they can sell on craigslist. If you hear about job opportunities that they may find interesting let them know. Also make sure to let friends know about what field your family member is currently seeking work in. I believe the main thing is to help them out as much as possible without it feeling like charity, and without leaving yourself in a venerable position.

loading....

Frank Rizzo

If bankruptcy is looking like it might be an option, retirement funds are protected in many states, so it may make sense to NOT use those (and maybe to contribute even more to them if you can).

Frank

loading....

Been there Done that

I lived beyond my means back in the early 80s and went broke in 1985. Few rules if you want to survive:
1: If you think that some jobs are beneath you, then you deserve to be broke.
2: If you think that your house and car makes you a bigger or better man then others, you deserve to be broke.
3: If you refuse to give up the boat, country club, golf, trips, four-wheelers or any other extras, you deserve to be broke.
4: If you have bank notes on anything other then your house and maybe one car then you are living beyond your means.

This is how I got out of my mess and it took five years to achieve this goal.If you think it will take a few months or a couple of years then you are living in a dream world.
1: Except for your house, sell everything that you own on or let it go back to the bank. Will this hurt your credit, you bet it will but bad credit will keep you from collecting more debt.
2: Here are the bare necessities that you need; one house, water, electricity and one phone – cell or land line don’t matter – and one used car. If you live in the city then walk or use public transportation to get to work.
3: If you can not pay cash for any extras then you can not afford it and trying to live beyond your means.
4: Show your kids how to live without video games and get a life outside of games, the phone and TV.
5: This could be a lesson for your kids to learn how not to live beyond their means later in life. Talk freely about the fact that you can not afford extras.
6: Work 16 hour days until you can afford to slow down. This is about you and your family not what family or friends will think about you working at a fast food or digging a ditch for food money. Work your self to death before you beg. Sometimes family and friends will cost you and your family money if you try to live up to their expectations.
7: Credit card is the same as borrowing money. Only one credit card that you pay off every month. Leave it at home, do not carry on your person for that easy purchase. If you don’t have the cash in the bank to pay for a credit card purchase then you can’t afford it.

How did this work for me? Will it was 1991 before I ever borrowed money to buy a decent used car and now I have one car payment for a 2009 Focus, its hard to look uppity in a focus but it sure does get good fuel mileage, I have a used 98 Ford paid off and a 97 pickup paid off. No boat or four-wheelers. I have enough money in the bank to live on for a year if I had too. I work two weeks and take a week off because my debt is low and I still put money in to savings every pay day. My house and car payment together is lower then what some of my neighbors pay for their house along. My kids keep their payments within reason and live a good life because they learned from my mistakes. I don’t live to make money or live beyond my means, I just live to enjoy live.
A few words of wisdom. Watch your penny’s and the dollars will take care of them self. If you have to borrow for extras then you can’t afford it but it will impress your family and friends until you go broke. Enjoy life while your family and friends work just to meet payments every month. Don’t let money control you but you control the money.

loading....

J.D.

I only marked two “great comments” here, but I actually like the entire discussion. (I marked these two as great because they come from folks who are experiencing this.) This is a difficult issue, and it’s made more complicated by the emotional stuff that goes into it.

I’m one of those who agrees that the standard financial advice — cut spending, work an extra job, etc. — is great as far as it goes, but that it can be ineffective in the face of a crisis. The standard advice is good advice, but what happens when you’ve cut as far as you can? Or you can’t find a job? Or you’ve depleted your savings? Etc.

I don’t know.

I don’t know the answers to these questions, and so my advice is only theoretical. We’ve heard from a couple of commenters who are experiencing these crises now; I’d love to hear from somebody who has faced the situation and managed to overcome it.

loading....

Linear Girl

@Just Watching – Maybe he blames his wife, but he makes the choice whether to work those jobs. She’s a handy scapegoat to excuse his behavior to his family, especially if his family already dislikes her. As for her “huge” retirement account “somewhere,” how on earth is that any of your business, if it even exists? If she’s as image-driven as you describe there is every chance it’s fictional.

Your brother and his problems come with a wife you can’t respect, I get that. But when you decide whether to help him, decide based on who he is, right now, not who you think he might be without his wife.

loading....

Financial Samurai

It’s important to ask yourself why are you asking the question regarding your family member. If the reason is to truly help him/her out, then the answer is simple. Have an open conversation, write out all the liabilities and assets, and help that family member with a interest free loan up to your financial means.

It’s really that simple. If you want to help, you should help.

Best of luck!

loading....

Stunned

Few people could have predicted the true magnitude of this crash. I know of a lot of people who have really cut down to bare-bones living just shy of moving into their 11 year old car. It does no good to tell someone how “stupid” and irresponsible they were. The situation is what it is…finger wagging doesn’t help at this stage of the game.

Personally, if all my “safety nets” failed, credit counseling failed and my MARRIAGE or the health and well-being of my SPOUSE and CHILDREN was on the line I’d bite the bullet, go BANKRUPT and start over.

I realize that this is a financial blog but sometimes there is more to life than maintaining a pretty FICO score, which is NOT more important than a marriage/family. Three or four jobs might be an option if you are single with no children. Would it worth it to bring your marriage and your health (with no insurance) to the brink and never see your children?

loading....

Just Watching and Waiting

My brother is in a similar situation. He lost his job last year but won’t take a job that is “beneath him”. No, I tell a lie, his WIFE won’t let him take a job that’s “beneath him”. He’s been offered opportunities out of state, but his WIFE won’t move. They are now relying on the food bank, which, his WIFE complains, gives out chunk lite tuna versus the solid white they’re used to. She used to be a corporate big shot, but she refuses to get even a part time job – even though their kids are tweens who could care for themselves for a few hours after school if necessary. She has a HUGE 401(k) account somewhere, but already made it clear early in the marriage that he will never see any of it. He would go to work at a gas station, McDonalds, anywhere that would pay him for a days work, but his WIFE won’t let him.

So, I’m also asking myself, as the only person in the family who is not a spendthrift or bankrupt, am I on deck to help them?

loading....

David/Yourfinances101

I would say first, take whatever job is out there that will pay you anything. I think a lot of times people are unwilling to take certain jobs.

If faced with such a problem, I would wash dishes if I had to.

Work two jobs if you can. Once again–desperate times–desperate measures.

Cut, cut, cut. I think the first thing to go would be TV–I could easily live off of local channels if I had to.

Next, do anything you can to cut utilities–run AC or heat less, use less water, etc etc.

I owuld deplete my emergency fund.

I would sell anything and everything I could get my hands on to make a little money.

Hopefully, by the time I did all of this, something would have changed.

Great subject.

loading....

Justin

While I feel like everyone’s advice has been good from a personal finance standpoint, you have to recognize a point when your personal finances could soon fail and you may need public assistance. Especially for someone who has four kids, this is exactly what these programs are made for.

Proactively contact your social services (months before you think you’ll need help) and see what you could qualify for. They’ll tell you at what point of your emergency fund you can receive food stamps. (you don’t need to touch your retirement, 529, or HSA funds to qualify). With four kids you are most likely already qualified for emergency food stamp and mortgage assistance.

These agencies can put you in contact with non-profits that can provide further food and clothing assistance. You may not need this kind of help right now, but contacting your county will help you see the safety net they have available should you need it.

loading....

Linear Girl

The most important part of JD’s advice is to act quickly when the job loss occurs. My step-sister went through this when her husband lost his job during the dot com bust. They had about six month’s of expenses in savings and so weren’t too worried and continued to live the same way they always did, assuming that’s what the emergency fund was for. The problem was that it took 18 months for him to find a new job. They didn’t lose the house, but the debt they took on eventually led to losing the marriage.

In retrospect, they could have made a lot of changes much earlier that would have helped them. Jane was building a business that put her around very wealthy clients all day and she spent more than she could afford trying to be like them, justifying it as part of building the business. She should have examined her spending on Day One and figured out where she should save. Dick figured he’d find real work more quickly than he did and turned down part-time work that would have helped bridge the gap. They chose not to tell their teenaged kids and continued to pay for all the normal expenses their kids incurred. If they’d told the kids, they could have gotten jobs to pay for their own stuff or even contributed to the family. Eventually they took all of these steps, but only after they were maxed out on credit and were barely making minimum payments. Their behavior seems so irresponsible in hindsight, but at the time they just didn’t realize how drastic the circumstance was.

The lesson I took from their experience is that it’s important to act as though your new income is permanent, then to figure out how to make your savings last as long as possible through spending cuts. Once the savings are gone, you may end up having to use credit to feed your kids (and at that point the idea that a credit score could possibly matter is beyond my comprehension). The idea is just to delay it as long as possible.

loading....

No Mortgage No Rent

To flippantly suggest that all the guy needs to do is go out and get 3-4 jobs suggests that the commenter hass never faced financial straights.

However, I agree:
*stop spending. No cable, no netflix, none of that. There’s no shame in soup kitchens
*Move to a cheaper place if at all possible. Sell the house or move to a smaller apartment. The boys can sleep in bunk beds if need be.
*Get rid of as many cars as possible.
*If he CAN get 3-4 jobs, then great.
*If he needs to use credit cards to get interviews suits, go job hunting, put food on the table….if he HAS to, then thats what credit cards are for. If he really is as aggressive and ambitious as he seems, he’ll make money one day and should continue living frugally until he pays it off.

loading....

Dandilyon

I recently came to a similar point where I was going to be homeless in about a month and a half. Recently divorced, I have been job hunting like crazy but the fact that I have been a stay at home mom for the last 17 years has been working against me. I was about at the end of my rope when I had the idea to move into an rv park. Altogether I save $475 a month now, enabling me to support myself on much less job, and that’s including a camper payment (0% interest til May and my only debt). In addition, because I bought an Airstream my new little house will probably appreciate in value so I can resell it later when times are better. I’m detailing the change over to a sustainable life on my blog, and it is turning out to be a pleasure rather then pain. When times get tough the tough get tighter! ^.^

loading....

Nancy L.

Exactly, Emmy. So you have six months of savings in your emergency fund. So you cut back all unnecessary spending. Hopefully that carries you through, but from what I’ve seen, that tends to be when your car falls apart and the furnace dies (in a cold snap) and your kid falls and breaks his wrist. And then after all of that, there’s a potential good job that you have to travel multiple times to interview for, but then in the end they go with another candidate. In other words, when things are bad, they can be *really* bad. It’s easy to think that you wouldn’t need to use your credit cards, but in practice, even if you’ve followed all of the typical suggestions (6 month living expenses, no debt, etc) for being prepared, you still can quickly find yourself in over your head. The only helpful advice I have is to be as creative and open as possible to ways to survive. Like, if you can’t find work, see if you can at least barter services (i.e. yard work) for things your family consumes.

As for helping out a family member in bad straits, I have to say that, from experience, I would be highly cautious about just throwing open the doors to my house and letting a family member move in. There are some relatives that I would do it in a heartbeat, as I know that they wouldn’t ask me unless they were absolutely desperate and that they would be working incredibly hard to get out of that situation. But other family members are the type of personality which would then want to take advantage of my generosity by expecting me to provide all of the food and using all of my entertainment options (computer/tv/etc) while not putting much energy into their job hunt. It’s so much harder to set healthy boundaries when someone is right there in your house. I’d much rather slightly piss off a family member by only offering limited help (i.e. helping them print out and send resumes) than end up completely despising each other because living together didn’t work out the right way.

loading....

Ms. Clear

The total amount of unemployment in this country, counting underemployment and discouraged workers, is up around 16%, so it’s not really possible for many to find 3-4 jobs. It’s often impossible to find one job.

The selling of assets, like a second car and possessions is definitely a way to earn extra money. Odd jobs, cleaning or babysitting could help as well.

loading....

Adrian

Hey Anonymous GRS Reader,

First and foremost — this sort of situation isn’t as uncommon as we would like to think. People are commonly very discreet about their financial affairs, so a key point is to assure your family member that he is CERTAINLY not alone, nor does he have to face this dilemma entirely by himself.

I have the echo the sentiments of comment #1 wherein your family member MUST cut to the bare minimum — for when things get truly tough in life, you have to get TOUGHER.

Secondly, when it comes to not being able to provide food for his family, his credit rating will have to be the LEAST of his concerns for the time being. We’re now talking about basic human survival — credit ratings can be re-established within time, where as care for family and oneself comes first.

Getting back to basics, he’ll certainly have to downsize his lifestyle depending on how long he envisions this situations to last, as well as doing ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to reduce his expenses and to raise his income — pride should no longer be an issue.

The situation may feel impossible for the time being, but being an intelligent, capable and ambitious guy, he has to allow his hope, determination and loving family to help him see things through. Everything comes around, and the light WILL shine again.

Take Care.

loading....

lauren

i’m more in agreement w/ emmy. these day and ages of who read this blog – who hasn’t cut things to the bare bones? cut back the cell phone, the cable, not using credit cards, not eating out – etc. we’ve done all that and more. and still my husband is unemployed. no one has given any real solid answers beyond “oh, don’t end up here to begin with” — not very helpful indeed. as steve mentioned it’s a full time job looking for a job. my husband spends hours every day reinventing his resume for every job he applies for.

loading....

Dan Dan Dan…

Dan,

In response to your comment:

“I don’t understand the “Avoid touching retirement savings” comment.”

It NEVER makes sense to touch your retirement unless there is absolutely no other option. Not only do you lose the 10% – 20% penalty but you also lose the power of compounding over the number of years until you retire. Big mistake!

loading....

Brendan

If you decide to lend them money do not expect to get it back as this way you will keep the friendship that has been built up.

loading....

Marc C

I can relate- too well. In some ways I thought of myself while reading the description of this family member. I will add a better comment later. Right now I will say I have done everything I can to cut and face reality. That is a major part of it- as the first comment refers to it as survival mode.

I would add that for all the comments about “get a job, get several”, for many people it is almost impossible. Someone who is an entrepreneur and “intelligent and ambitious” may even be more handicapped in this job market. I have applied for over 100 jobs and been on 2 interviews. I was hired for one, and worked 2 hours at minimum wage. Those were all the hours I got the first month of schedules. The other job had hundreds of people applying for one opening that was part-time and paid nothing. I used to work 7 days a week and overtime was standard. These days when everyone needs 2-3 jobs many entry level type jobs are limited part time but require 24/7 availability. I would love to work 2-3 jobs. My ideal situation would be a full time day job and a fulltime night job with perhaps a 3rd part time job on the weekends or off-hours. And I would be willing to do that for close to minimum wage. But everything hiring is “be available 24/7 but be scheduled variable hours from 0-whatever at minimum wage” making it difficult to even try to work 2 jobs or even get 1 full time job out of the deal. And forget about anything like “benefits.” “Benefits” means something like get a free uniform no one would pay for or competitive pay of $8/hr when minimum is $7.25. Then you have the places that run ads constantly but don’t appear to actually have openings.

Many jobs that require 5-7 years experience and a degree plus everything else and pay nothing.

Add to that if you are someone who has been self-employed for several years and/or a “thinker” and believe me, it will be a lot tougher. Even if you are willing to work hard 24/7 and do anything for minimum wage.

I cut back all I could but still ended up maxing out cards because I had to eat. now I beg for food pretty much. Extra cars, retirement,etc? Hah. Have none of that. Sold a car for 500 bucks and paid 1 bill last year. Was never an extravagant spender. Just when you do certain work out of necessity and barely getting by there aren’t many options, just trying to live.

FWIW, I take 100% responsibility for my situation. I would love if some suggested options existed, though.

The only thing I can do is cut as much as possible and then keep working for myself 18-20 hours a day and rededicate myself, making sure to invest as much time and little money as possible to get something turned around.

loading....

JonasAberg

When (and how) do I help out a family member? Good question. I’d take a bullet for anyone in my family so this is something I’ve thought about too.
I think for me at least, it boils down to *why* they’ve gotten themselves in debt.

Is it because of a job loss or medical condition or something else outside their control OR is it just plain old stupidity and ignoring financial responsibility?

If someone has gotten themselves in deep debt by buying “stuff” with their credit cards, it’s not going to help if I bail them out with money. Money isn’t the problem, bad habits is.

However, if the situation has arisen because of something outside their control, I’d be more than willing to use my own emergency fund to bail them out from a serious situation.

loading....

Emmy

I think at that point, the second point is the only one that will make a difference. Sell a car. Sell the house. Move into a tiny apartment. Get unemployment. get food stamps. Whatever’s eating your savings, get rid of it. Am I wrong in thinking that people in that situation aren’t exactly having steak every night? Frugality will only get you so far. And extra income is especially hard to come by in tough economic times. You can work every hour of the day and still not make enough money. In fact, I find this piece of advice to be especially useless to those who’ve lost their jobs to a bad economy. When it’s down to not having enough money to feed your family, OF COURSE you’re saving every penny. Of course you’re working every job that will take you.

Let’s assume worst case scenario: you have no savings. You’ve got kids to support, either with a partner or by yourself. Would you really rather starve than use a credit card? I’m not telling people to use credit to fill in the gaps until a magical employer comes around and offers a generous salary, but there has to be something more helpful y’all can suggest other than “don’t spend more than you earn.”

loading....

steve

i agree, the best way to handle financial(or any other) crisis is to be prepared. i am that family member in a tough position so let me tell you want we need from our friends and family…..
#1 encouragement
#2 emotional support (call me to tell me you care about me, I’m not a leper, just unemployed!!)
#3 offer up anything you feel you can do to help(make a meal, babysitting so I can take out my spouse for some alone time, etc)

A Bit About Me:
about 9 months ago i lost my career long position of 15 years due to massive layoffs. i have spent countless hours looking for jobs, revising resumes, creating catchy cover letters, networking, and sobbing out of frustration. i feel fortunate, i had an eye opener about 4 years earlier, i narrowly avoided a layoff by taking a transfer and moving cross country. at that time we cut spending, no cable, cut expensive habits(tobacco, starve-bucks coffee, etc), and started saving everything we could. now, we have cushion, still stinks to be out of work, still wondering what to do about it, but at least we still eat, we are not in foreclosure, etc (not to say we are not stressed out about finding an income source).

an expanded answer to Q #1: How to keep from sinking deeper and deeper in debt: refuse to use credit cards, call creditors and explain your situation so you can try to negotiate a lower rate or get some assistance in the payoff process, seek assistance from any place that may be able to help (food, money, energy, phone bill, etc), sell your junk (it’s just stuff & you’ll buy more when you get back on your feet, hopefully not as much though), downsize your life(smaller car, smaller house or apartment, etc), be realistic about needs vs. wants.

loading....

Dan

I don’t understand the “Avoid touching retirement savings” comment.

So there’s what – a 10-20% penalty for taking some of your retirement money out early? Lets say you have several hundred thousand in retirement savings and you maxed out on credit cards. you might as well take what you need from retirement right? yes, you’ll need to live more frugually in your golden years depending more on social security, but overall I think it can make sense in some circumstances.

Depending on what your APR is on your credit cards it could even make more sense than maxing out credit cards you can’t pay.

I mean yes you’re postponing the pain – but i think in some cases you’ll experience less overall lifetime financial pain if you average it out over a lifetime rather than taking it all at once.

loading....

Karen

I think the classic solution is to move back in with family. Sure, it may be harder for a family of 6, but really, what other option is there?

loading....

robin

I totally agree that a family has to drastically reduce spending, but many people don’t like to change their lifestyle of social activities or spending. Also making goals is important. I make sure that our family sets goals for what to pay and when… highest interest rate to lowest. I also look for better interest rates and shuffle money around . For example, we had a personal loan that was taken our for college and I moved it from Wells Fargo to our local credit union and got a 6% interest rate deduction. That’s going to save our family a lot in interest and we can pay it off sooner.

loading....

kaitlyn

I wish I had an answer to this. My mother lost her job back in March. It really knocked her sideways, coming shortly after divorcing my dad. I don’t want to support her by sending her money when she spent 5 months not even looking for a job, plus her financial habits leave much to be desired (I’ve learned how to handle money by doing the opposite of her…), but at the same time… she’s my mother. *sigh*

If she lost her house, I would take her in, but not her boyfriend (major point of contention for us).

loading....

Sierra Black

My family is just pulling out of the debt we slipped into when my kids were born and we dropped down to one income. My guest post here earlier this week talked about the big changes we made – changing jobs, selling our house in the suburbs, going down to one car – but we also did a lot of very tedious things like:

– learning to track all our spending and become MUCH more frugal
– starting side gigs that bring extra income each month
– consolidating debt where possible to lower interest rates
– sell Stuff and use the proceeds to pay off debt

We’re not totally out of the hole yet, but I can finally see the light at the end of the debt tunnel.

Good luck to your family member! I don’t envy him that tough period. Hopefully when he does get back on his feet, he’ll have learned skills that will put much firmer ground underneath him.

loading....

Gordie Rogers

I think going minimalist would help with being frugal. Sell or donate unnecessary possessions. Move to a smaller place, minimize use of your automobile, exercise at home and outside instead of paying monthly fees at a gym, don’t eat out.

I agree with Mr. Not the Jet Set. The best way is to avoid credit cards if possible altogether.

loading....

Mr. Not the Jet Set

For the first question:
“”When faced with job loss and depleted savings, how can you avoid going into credit red?””

The best offense is a good defense – the emergency fund. Also, one of the best ways to avoid credit card debt is to not have credit cards.

for the second:
“”What can be done to avoid sinking deeper and deeper into debt?””

Get out and get to work. Work 3-4 jobs. Cut to the bone and sell, sell, sell. Something I see a distinct lack of these days is a ‘sense of urgency’. This is survival mode.

Advertiser Disclosure:
Many of the savings offers appearing on this site are from advertisers from which this website receives compensation for being listed here.
This compensation may impact how and where products appear on this site (including, for example, the order in which they appear). These offers do not represent all deposit accounts available.
Editorial Disclosure: This content is not provided or commissioned by the bank advertiser.
Opinions expressed here are author’s alone, not those of the bank advertiser, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by the bank advertiser. This site may be compensated through the bank advertiser Affiliate Program.
UGC Disclosure: These responses are not provided or commissioned by the bank advertiser.
Responses have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by the bank advertiser. It is not the bank advertiser's responsibility to ensure all posts and/or questions are answered.

Disclaimer: Rates / APY terms above are current as of the date indicated. These quotes are
from banks, credit unions and thrifts, some of which have paid for a link to
their website. Bank, thrift and credit union deposits are insured by the FDIC
or NCUA. Contact the bank for the terms and conditions that may apply to you.
Rates are subject to change without notice and may not be the same at all
branches.

Disclaimer:All information provided on this site is for informational purposes only. GetRichSlowly.org makes no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, suitability or validity of any information on this site and will not be liable for any errors or omissions in this information or any damages arising from its display or use.