aitomies wrote:It's isn't exactly like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa, but I think the canonical works should have their integrity retained, and off-cuts for the completists should be on a seperate disc.[/rant]

aitomies wrote:Well I'm a bit reluctant to shell out the third time (vinyl, CD, re-master) for the Yes oevre, but when I do, it is for better sound quality, not for bonus tracks. When I listen to [insert album name of choice] it's all build-up to that deep silence at the end - best on vinyl with the rasp, rasp, rasp of the needle going futilely round and round - and I do not want the moment polluted by the start of an additional song that was'nt good enough to be released first time. It's isn't exactly like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa, but I think the canonical works should have their integrity retained, and off-cuts for the completists should be on a seperate disc.[/rant]

But it isn't always a case of the song not being good enough to be released the first time. Make It Easy and It's Over may be the best 2 songs on the Rhino reissue of 90125 but were not included on the original. Why? This is just speculation, but I'm guessing Jon either didn't want to sing them or Trevor didn't want Jon replacing his vocals on these numbers. We also get the a cappella version of Leave It which was not included on the original release. Clearly songs and alternate versions of songs were sometimes left off from the original works due to factors other than them simply not being good enough, which was a shame IMO and I'm glad that Rhino decided to include these.

As part of the newest generation of Yesfans, I have only actually had access to the most recent remasters. Some people say vinyl is better quality; after all a digital recording is only a sampled copy of the original so it's hard to see how the quality could improve. Still, the arguments differ...

As for the bonus tracks, they're not that great, but theres no harm in them being there. Most are poorly mixed with no overdubs, but it gives you a good taste of how the band sound "raw". The highlights for me would be America (obviously), Siberia, and Squire's Amazing Grace.

thehallway wrote:As part of the newest generation of Yesfans, I have only actually had access to the most recent remasters. Some people say vinyl is better quality; after all a digital recording is only a sampled copy of the original so it's hard to see how the quality could improve. Still, the arguments differ...

They can improve because they're taken from the master tapes and not copied from the vinyl. There are lots of divergence of opinion on this - CDs were (and to some degree still are) sonically limited by their sampling rate, but some of those limitations are being overcome. Depending on the master and the quality of the original transfer CDs were from the start often 'cleaner' and therefore apparently more 'detailed' than their vinyl counterparts - but also less 'warm' and some would say clinical and compressed. Mastering digitally has been around a lot longer than CDs themselves, but the best were also mastered at 24 bit [23bit being apparently the limit of human hearing].

As for the bonus tracks, they're not that great, but theres no harm in them being there. Most are poorly mixed with no overdubs, but it gives you a good taste of how the band sound "raw". The highlights for me would be America (obviously), Siberia, and Squire's Amazing Grace.

They're really variable aren't they - some just being raw run-throughs. The earliest cuts of these are most interesting as they give a better insight into song development - ToTC being a good case in point. I also personally like the instrumental fragments attached to the GftO remaster.

As to whether they ruin the integrity of the album... Like many these days most of my listening is via iPod - you can create playlists of any material. You can also [as I do] make two albums from the remastered versions - the original tracks and a second group for the add-ons. Pas de problem...

Chris2210 wrote: I also personally like the instrumental fragments attached to the GftO remaster.

Ditto, I'm curious what else that Moraz had influence over. Surly some of that stuff is there. Montreux is a great example of where Yes was at that stage. Some of the run through's on a few of the remasters I can live without but stuff like The Ancient I love.

For the most part I love all the bonus tracks/run thrus because you get to here new music but from our boys in their prime. Almost like live versions but in the studio. I like the inclusion of single edits and run thrus before they added all the layers because they are more raw and funky like GFTR for example. Not so high pitched but more gutsy even though all the elements are not there. I dont seem to mind that they are not polished and perfect and that is part of their charm to me. I hope they end up officially releasing all that rehearsal footage from GFTO and Tormato sessions. I just love all that stuff. I want that BBC Sounding Out program too. I ordered the Lost Broadcasts and will be getting the other one too I think it is called 70's Rock? Keep em coming and buy them while they last. The most recent "In a Word" box set is now out of print.

Gary wrote:Recently replaced missing and imperfect CDs with new ones. Many of my old favorites now come with 5 or 6 added or bonus tracks. Many of these tracks are just different versions of the prviously released song or a rehearsal studio version.

How do you all feel about theses added tracks?

On the albums that I feel were perfect, such as CTTE, TYA, Relayer, Tales, Fragile, etc., I'm not a fan of them. On less important albums (IMO) I don't care. I like keeping the integrity of the classics.

In A Word is out of print?! Wow! It was only released in 2002. That's strange. But anyway, back on topic here, listening more frequently to the Rhino remasters, some of the bonus material I can either take or leave and I do agree that they would have been better off on a bonus disc, but still they all sound lovely. There was a great improvement on Yes's first album and definitely on Relayer and Going For The One. As far as these remasters go, overall in terms of sound quality and bonus material, my absolute fave is Going For The One. It's almost as if it was made into a double album squeezed onto one disc. I love "Montreaux's Theme" and I had "Vevey" burned onto a CD to be played in the church before my wedding. It's very beautiful and relaxing. "Eastern Numbers" is a great earlier version of "Awaken," although not as good as the version we all know and love, but it's nice to hear it in its embryonic stage. I just love how the album sounds pumped up and all the instruments and voices sound cleaner and clearer. Even though my favorite album is Tales From Topographic Oceans, Going For The One is my favorite remaster-wise.

The bonus tracks can sometimes be a bother when you're listening to an album that you really love and know when it begins and ends, but they're nice to have because it's more value for your money.

I'm still waiting for the remaster of Big Generator with bonus material. We know there are demos and remixes of some of the material off of album. I'd like to know when this is going to happen.

I would agree with your favour on GFTO in terms of remaster quality; the title track especially sounds so vibrant and energetic. I think one of the most impressive individual songs though, would be Perpetual Change. On that bit where the frantic riff in the bridge gradually builds up and turns into the chorus, it sounds so cool! The riff part moves over to the left speaker alone, whilst the chorus theme builds in volume from the right, its rather good. Also Gates of Delirium seems to have a lot more layers.

topographic_drama1980 wrote:In A Word is out of print?! I'm still waiting for the remaster of Big Generator with bonus material. We know there are demos and remixes of some of the material off of album. I'd like to know when this is going to happen.

You can still find In a Word brand new condition on Amazon for under $20.
Regarding Big Generator, I wouldn't count on ever seeing a remaster of this with bonus tracks. Last I heard Rhino was having $'s problems. Rumor was they were going under.

One is the concept of remastering. I personally think it's worth the cash to purchase a beloved album, in remastered form. Rhino did an excellent job with the remasters, and it's sometimes like hearing the songs for the first time!

The other is the concept of bonus tracks. While I'm a "completist" at heart, and enjoy hearing every scrap of music Yes ever recorded, I would prefer that these not just be "tacked on" to the end of an album, but on a separate disc. I realize that economics make the "tacking on" more feasible, and since these albums were originally produced on vinyl, there's oodles of space left on a CD once you've recorded the original album.

I handle this by just listening to the original album, and removing the CD once it's complete, unless I'm just in the mood to hear "bonus tracks" at the time . . .

I've also had the thought of just burning all the bonus tracks to another disc, but haven't gotten that far yet.

Point is, YOU are in control of what you listen to, so if you don't want to hear the bonus tracks at that time, then don't listen to them . . .

On the subject of "extra tracks" I think the Close To The Edge cuts sound a bit better than the finished product as far as sound quality maybe because there is less over dubbing and less handling?Some parts have more punch or depth.

tardistraveler wrote:Seems there's 2 issues here.

One is the concept of remastering. I personally think it's worth the cash to purchase a beloved album, in remastered form. Rhino did an excellent job with the remasters, and it's sometimes like hearing the songs for the first time!

The other is the concept of bonus tracks. While I'm a "completist" at heart, and enjoy hearing every scrap of music Yes ever recorded, I would prefer that these not just be "tacked on" to the end of an album, but on a separate disc. I realize that economics make the "tacking on" more feasible, and since these albums were originally produced on vinyl, there's oodles of space left on a CD once you've recorded the original album.