Dan Wetzel and his Yahoo investigative team have broken more investigations open in the last year than anyone in the history of the NCAA. I HIGHLY doubt this source wasn't vetted intensely. These guys have a rep as the best investigative team out there, not going to throw that away to rush to print.

FWIW: OSU was informed of the story by Yahoo 30 min before publishing and said they will have a response tomorrow.

Since the poster above me was a YSU recruit back in the day. What was Tressel and his staff's reputation as far as running a clean program versus the rest of D-I FB schools out there?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Wetzel is a good reporter. I believe that he wouldn't have published without something credible.

I dont know what the source showed him, but my gut says it was something.

Absolutely makes me sick to say it, but I think it makes LESS sense that Wetzel would come out with this story without proof, than it would that Tressel found something out in April and buried it to take a run at the NC.

Don't want to believe JT did anything out of bounds, but I'm not naive enough to believe it isn't possible. If this proves to be true I want the appropriate punishment and in a timely manner. No hypocrite here.

Come on, I knew he knew when the story came out. In a community like that there is always a little birdie chirping.

If you didn't think he knew, the blinders are working well. Now it is a matter of can "they"(who ever that is) get some type of proof or confirmation from a "credible" source. How long did he know and to what degree.

If anything goes down it will hurt him and the University. The program shouldn't get dinged too bad. More of a fine and probation offense I would believe. Maybe a suspension for him of some type hopefully only Marshall.

He is a god fairing man but he is not god. He too will make some bad choices.

Actually they could very well take the regular season back if they played knowing the violation. Giving the big ten championship back would suck, but as long as they don't have to play the future with post season penalties(not being bowl eligible) they will be fine long term.

They shouldn't be able to take away the BCS money from the conference, they knew of the violation and still let the kids play in the post season. Well, the NCAA can make some crazy rulings so maybe they can. I am still trying to figure out how a guy's dad can auction him off and the kid get away with the I didn't know card.

This seems too weird. I was just talking to someone about this the other day. What struck me about the initial decision was its harshness for selling memorabilia. It made me, at least, wonder if there wasn't more to the story. I figured this might be the NCAA's subtle way of telling tOSU that dirt was being swept under the carpet, leave it alone and shut up about complaining of the game suspensions. Couple that with the hypocrisy involved in the players being allowed to suit up for the bowl game and you have an exasperating pile of muddle. All you need is someone to stir the pot and..........................here it is. This isn't good for tOSU, not good at all.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

If we don't wanna call it "cheating" like we do when referring to SEC teams, let's call it "head turning."

And all the things in between.

It's happening EVERYWHERE.

Say it till I'm blue in the face, the key is avoiding a major investigation, not being "clean," cause none of them are.

Ask the "paragon" of coaching cleanliness how Corey Maggette aquired all that he ran around with on the Duke campus. Did Coach K cheat, or did he turn his head? What's the difference?

And yes, there are certainly different levels, not everything is as egregious as Auburn, for example, but something like this - if this is the least bit suprising to you you've had your head in the sand far too long. I'd be willing to bet, in Tressel's tenure, there's been dozens of violations worse than this that have gone undetected. Violations that Tressel was aware were going on, cause that's the way the game works.

leadpipe wrote:If we don't wanna call it "cheating" like we do when referring to SEC teams, let's call it "head turning."

And all the things in between.

It's happening EVERYWHERE.

Say it till I'm blue in the face, the key is avoiding a major investigation, not being "clean," cause none of them are.

Ask the "paragon" of coaching cleanliness how Corey Maggette aquired all that he ran around with on the Duke campus. Did Coach K cheat, or did he turn his head? What's the difference?

And yes, there are certainly different levels, not everything is as egregious as Auburn, for example, but something like this - if this is the least bit suprising to you you've had your head in the sand far too long. I'd be willing to bet, in Tressel's tenure, there's been dozens of violations worse than this that have gone undetected. Violations that Tressel was aware were going on, cause that's the way the game works.

There is little to nothing in the world of sports that is shock worthy anymore.

leadpipe wrote:If we don't wanna call it "cheating" like we do when referring to SEC teams, let's call it "head turning."

And all the things in between.

It's happening EVERYWHERE.

Say it till I'm blue in the face, the key is avoiding a major investigation, not being "clean," cause none of them are.

Ask the "paragon" of coaching cleanliness how Corey Maggette aquired all that he ran around with on the Duke campus. Did Coach K cheat, or did he turn his head? What's the difference?

And yes, there are certainly different levels, not everything is as egregious as Auburn, for example, but something like this - if this is the least bit suprising to you you've had your head in the sand far too long. I'd be willing to bet, in Tressel's tenure, there's been dozens of violations worse than this that have gone undetected. Violations that Tressel was aware were going on, cause that's the way the game works.

There is little to nothing in the world of sports that is shock worthy anymore.

I've heard grumblings of much worse.

You mentioned that to me a couple months back. Hopefully this is the only turd in the punch bowl.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

Poor Tress (and all other high profile coaches). One of his kids could give his old spikes to his brother in the off season and his HC job and good name might be at risk. What a pain in the neck job.

New reality: It's a super clean world. Teflon doesn't work anymore. You hear something second hand, you probably ask the guys directly, they probably lie, you think you can avoid unnecessary headaches and move on. You get spiked.

skatingtripods wrote:All depends on who this "source" is. Could be some big booster or could be some hoax. Who knows.

Agree. I'm waiting until an objective souce like mark may weighs in.

This seems to explain his light "discipline" on the matter. Probably will result in a loss of a few schollies and maybe a bowl. A hiccup. If anyone thinks this sullies the rep of tSV, they were probably eagerly awaiting the arrival of the easter bunny as well.

leadpipe wrote:If we don't wanna call it "cheating" like we do when referring to SEC teams, let's call it "head turning."

And all the things in between.

It's happening EVERYWHERE.

Say it till I'm blue in the face, the key is avoiding a major investigation, not being "clean," cause none of them are.

Ask the "paragon" of coaching cleanliness how Corey Maggette aquired all that he ran around with on the Duke campus. Did Coach K cheat, or did he turn his head? What's the difference?

And yes, there are certainly different levels, not everything is as egregious as Auburn, for example, but something like this - if this is the least bit suprising to you you've had your head in the sand far too long. I'd be willing to bet, in Tressel's tenure, there's been dozens of violations worse than this that have gone undetected. Violations that Tressel was aware were going on, cause that's the way the game works.

Very well witten as usual Piper. All these complience officers have to do is moonlight as the parking lot attendants and check pinks at the palacial workout centers if they didn't want to turn heads.

I'll wait till I hear from the school before getting out on the ledge.

It certainly doesn't sound like a "fireable" offense even if 100% true though.

Purely speculating...maybe he heard reports or rumors, but players denied it and there was no clear proof of violations.

During the investigation back in December (when the US Attorney discovered the OSU merchandise in the course of their dealings with the tattoo parlor operator and brought them to the attention of the university), it came out that several months prior, OSU staff had approached the team to "clarify" or "emphasize" the NCAA regs regarding such things...and to ask all players to come forward if they had been involved with anything of this sort...and all the players reportedly denied any involvement.

As I understand it, that's why the suspensions were for five games instead of four. There was precedent for a 4-game suspension for similar violations (Green from Georgia got a 4-gamer for selling a jersey) but a fifth game was added to the suspension because it was shown the players had lied about their involvement when first confronted.

Not sure how the timetable for all this jibes with "April" as reported by Yahoo, but we'll see.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

skatingtripods wrote:All depends on who this "source" is. Could be some big booster or could be some hoax. Who knows.

Agree. I'm waiting until an objective souce like mark may weighs in.

This seems to explain his light "discipline" on the matter. Probably will result in a loss of a few schollies and maybe a bowl. A hiccup. If anyone thinks this sullies the rep of tSV, they were probably eagerly awaiting the arrival of the easter bunny as well.

danwismar wrote:Purely speculating...maybe he heard reports or rumors, but players denied it and there was no clear proof of violations.

During the investigation back in December (when the US Attorney discovered the OSU merchandise in the course of their dealings with the tattoo parlor operator and brought them to the attention of the university), it came out that several months prior, OSU staff had approached the team to "clarify" or "emphasize" the NCAA regs regarding such things...and to ask all players to come forward if they had been involved with anything of this sort...and all the players reportedly denied any involvement.

Agree that this sounds really, really plausible Dan. It makes perfect sense. The rumors and whispers strated, they followed up internally and in that sense JT prbably "knew". Those involved like TPeezy2 seem like the sort of selfish little characterless shits who'd lie to JT and the administrators' faces. So on one hand, they should have gone more formal earlier since they "knew". They will be accountable. OTOH, it sounds more like the kind of head turning that Piper describes happens absolutely everywhere. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit that those involved were unable to Man up. For anyone to even feign disbelief of it at tOSU is laugable.

Mostly, I agree with you. Not a fireable offense. If 2010 get forfeighted, that'd be the best "punishment" AFAIC. I always thought that was a ridiculous cop out. The kids who sell the gold pants don't give a shit, but the good team-first kids clearly would.

The real solution is to up the suspension of those who cheated to a full season for lying and sustend JT for a game for not moving fast enough or thorough enough if they can prove he sniffed anything. Do it after the NFL supplimental draft. Then ding 'em for a few schollies and call it a day.

In the end, I hope that JT learns a lesson about the TPeezy's and Claretts of the world. They just aren't worth it.

Last edited by jb on Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

danwismar wrote:I'll wait till I hear from the school before getting out on the ledge.It certainly doesn't sound like a "fireable" offense even if 100% true though.

Purely speculating...maybe he heard reports or rumors, but players denied it and there was no clear proof of violations.

During the investigation back in December (when the US Attorney discovered the OSU merchandise in the course of their dealings with the tattoo parlor operator and brought them to the attention of the university), it came out that several months prior, OSU staff had approached the team to "clarify" or "emphasize" the NCAA regs regarding such things...and to ask all players to come forward if they had been involved with anything of this sort...and all the players reportedly denied any involvement.

As I understand it, that's why the suspensions were for five games instead of four. There was precedent for a 4-game suspension for similar violations (Green from Georgia got a 4-gamer for selling a jersey) but a fifth game was added to the suspension because it was shown the players had lied about their involvement when first confronted.

Not sure how the timetable for all this jibes with "April" as reported by Yahoo, but we'll see.

All depends on whats true Dan.

Thanks for some additional info. If it was as you wrote, there shouldn't be a big issue.

But if it was that easy to see, shouldn't Wetzel know what you just wrote, and if all he had was the word of one person saying there was more to it, do you believe it makes sense for him to put his name on that article?

"Reports saying that Ohio State Athletic Director Gene Smith will not be at March Madness TV presentation in NYC this AM as scheduled. Darren Rovell, a CNBC sports reporter, has been told he has been called back to campus."

Thanks for some additional info. If it was as you wrote, there shouldn't be a big issue.

But if it was that easy to see, shouldn't Wetzel know what you just wrote, and if all he had was the word of one person saying there was more to it, do you believe it makes sense for him to put his name on that article?

Not ready to put Mr. Wetzel on any kind of journalistic pedestal. I've seen some "reporting" by him that was fairly fact-free. He's looking for page clicks, and this gets him there.

I do suspect that the action the staff took months ago to confront and re-educate the team on these particular rules could be enough to mitigate the damage to JT. Hope so.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Thanks for some additional info. If it was as you wrote, there shouldn't be a big issue.

But if it was that easy to see, shouldn't Wetzel know what you just wrote, and if all he had was the word of one person saying there was more to it, do you believe it makes sense for him to put his name on that article?

Not ready to put Mr. Wetzel on any kind of journalistic pedestal. I've seen some "reporting" by him that was fairly fact-free. He's looking for page clicks, and this gets him there.

I do suspect that the action the staff took months ago to confront and re-educate the team on these particular rules could be enough to mitigate the damage to JT. Hope so.

I still find it hilarious that people want to chastise OSU for holding off on the suspensions until next year. They completely ignore how much power the BCS had in lobbying for the players to participate in the Fiesta Bowl.

Either way, again, still no word on who this source is. If there's one thing that universities are good at, it's damage control.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:I still find it hilarious that people want to chastise OSU for holding off on the suspensions until next year. They completely ignore how much power the BCS had in lobbying for the players to participate in the Fiesta Bowl.

Either way, again, still no word on who this source is. If there's one thing that universities are good at, it's damage control.

True. JT has taken much heat for putting off the suspensions, and little attention has been paid to the fact that he was doing exactly what ALL the rest of the people affected by his decision wanted him to do....the BCS officials....the Sugar Bowl officials...Petrino and the University of Arkansas, who clearly would not have wanted an empty win over a depleted OSU team...the OSU players, obviously...

...even the NCAA was said to have been pushing for them to allow the TatFive to play on New Years Day (though the NCAA's financial stake in the Sugar Bowl is way overstated...it's the BCS, a separate private institution, that makes the money on that, not the NCAA...the "NCAA sold out principles for $$$$" claim is bogus, IMO)

I thought JT made the best of the situation by requiring all five to commit to returning in 2011 (so they would not avoid punishment for their violations) as a condition of being allowed to make the trip to New Orleans. No one required him to do that (and it was not binding on the players...though all five honored their commitments, and did not enter the NFL Draft.)

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

When the penalties were announced in December, here's part of what A.D. Gene Smith said at the time (bold emphasis mine) This is from Tim May's article in the Dispatch, linked here: http://bit.ly/et8JUJ

---

Gene Smith, associate vice president and director of athletics at Ohio State, said the university will “further enhance” its rules education in the future based on this situation.

“We were not as explicit with our student-athlete education as we should have been in the 2007-08 and 2008-09 academic years regarding the sale of apparel, awards and gifts issued by the athletics department,” Smith said. “We began to significantly improve our education in November of 2009 to address these issues. After going through this experience, we will further enhance our education for all our student-athletes as we move forward.”

The standard withholding condition in cases like these involving the five student-athletes is four games, or 30 percent of a season. A fifth game was added to the penalty because these student-athletes did not immediately disclose the violations when presented with the appropriate rules education, Lennon said.

---

This tells me that as early as Nov. 2009, they probably had information that something had happened....hence the realization that they had not been "as explicit...as they should have been regarding the sale of apparel, awards..." and they set about to correct that with additional sessions with the team about that stuff. The part about the penalty going from four to five games is also in there....though I love the way it is phrased..."athletes did not immediately disclose the violations when presented with the appropriate rules education" (read: they lied and denied)

What else seems clear is that Tressel did not withhold information from the AD at the time...Smith was involved from the get-go, it would appear.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

danwismar wrote:When the penalties were announced in December, here's part of what A.D. Gene Smith said at the time (bold emphasis mine) This is from Tim May's article in the Dispatch, linked here: http://bit.ly/et8JUJ

---

Gene Smith, associate vice president and director of athletics at Ohio State, said the university will “further enhance” its rules education in the future based on this situation.

“We were not as explicit with our student-athlete education as we should have been in the 2007-08 and 2008-09 academic years regarding the sale of apparel, awards and gifts issued by the athletics department,” Smith said. “We began to significantly improve our education in November of 2009 to address these issues. After going through this experience, we will further enhance our education for all our student-athletes as we move forward.”

The standard withholding condition in cases like these involving the five student-athletes is four games, or 30 percent of a season. A fifth game was added to the penalty because these student-athletes did not immediately disclose the violations when presented with the appropriate rules education, Lennon said.

---

This tells me that as early as Nov. 2009, they probably had information that something had happened....hence the realization that they had not been "as explicit...as they should have been regarding the sale of apparel, awards..." and they set about to correct that with additional sessions with the team about that stuff. The part about the penalty going from four to five games is also in there....though I love the way it is phrased..."athletes did not immediately disclose the violations when presented with the appropriate rules education" (read: they lied and denied)

What else seems clear is that Tressel did not withhold information from the AD at the time...Smith was involved from the get-go, it would appear.

COLUMBUS, Ohio—Officials with the Ohio State University and Department of Athletics will be available at 7 p.m. Tuesday (3/8/11).

E. Gordon Gee, Ohio State University president, Gene Smith, vice president and director of athletics, and Jim Tressel, head football coach, will address the media at the Jack Nicklaus Museum (2355 Olentangy River Road, Columbus, Ohio 43210).

COLUMBUS, Ohio—Officials with the Ohio State University and Department of Athletics will be available at 7 p.m. Tuesday (3/8/11).

E. Gordon Gee, Ohio State University president, Gene Smith, vice president and director of athletics, and Jim Tressel, head football coach, will address the media at the Jack Nicklaus Museum (2355 Olentangy River Road, Columbus, Ohio 43210).

My initial thought is that the NCAA has not learned anything in the last 24 hours that they did not know before.

Pryor and others among the TatFive said repeatedly in Dec., 2010 that they were being punished for indiscretions committed "two years ago", so like I said, this goes back way further than last April.

Also, in the Dispatch article linked above, was the acknowledgment by the NCAA at the time that the players may not have been aware of the regulations at the time the violations occurred, and that they took this into consideration when they decided on the penalties:

---

...the student-athletes will be eligible to play in the bowl game Jan. 4 based on several factors.

These include the acknowledgment the student-athletes did not receive adequate rules education during the time period the violations occurred, Lennon said.

NCAA policy allows suspending withholding penalties for a championship or bowl game if it was reasonable at the time the student-athletes were not aware they were committing violations, along with considering the specific circumstances of each situation.

---

It's pretty clear to me that OSU officials knew, or at least had been alerted to the possibility, before November, 2009, that violations had occurred, because that is when they began their "re-education" process with the team, and asked guilty players to step forward.

More importantly, it is also pretty clear that the NCAA knew about all of this in December.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

COLUMBUS, Ohio—Officials with the Ohio State University and Department of Athletics will be available at 7 p.m. Tuesday (3/8/11).

E. Gordon Gee, Ohio State University president, Gene Smith, vice president and director of athletics, and Jim Tressel, head football coach, will address the media at the Jack Nicklaus Museum (2355 Olentangy River Road, Columbus, Ohio 43210).