Tuesday, July 19, 2016

It can't have escaped your notice that the unionist media are trying to present Nicola Sturgeon with a false binary choice - either she has a 'veto' over Brexit, or she will be 'locked in' to an agreed UK negotiating stance by cunning Theresa May. You can see why they want that to be true, because either of those options would effectively preclude a second indyref. But in reality, the truth is somewhere in between the two extremes - the UK government will consult, but won't offer a veto, and there is therefore no guarantee (or even any great likelihood) of the Scottish Government signing off on the UK's negotiating stance. Here is one possibility of what Sturgeon might say at the end of the consultation -

"As you know, I and other Scottish Government ministers have been taking part in extensive discussions with our UK counterparts over the forthcoming negotiations with the EU. Theresa May indicated to us that she would listen carefully to any suggestions we might have about ways of ensuring Scotland's interests are fully protected.

We made two substantive proposals. Firstly, that the UK should reconfigure itself as a decentralised confederal union to allow constituent nations like Scotland and Northern Ireland to stay in the EU, in line with how they voted in the referendum. I regret to say that Theresa May and David Davis rejected that suggestion out of hand. They reiterated that, in their view, "Brexit means Brexit, and when the UK leaves, Scotland must leave".

Our second, alternative proposal was that the UK as a whole should seek to remain in the European Economic Area on the same basis as Norway. This possibility is far from ideal, because it would still involve Scotland being dragged out of the EU against our will. But it would at least address our most serious concerns about Brexit, because Scotland would remain part of the Single Market, and our rights as European citizens, including the right to live and work in other EU countries, would be fully protected. We made clear during the discussions that this is the absolute minimum that would be acceptable to us.

Unfortunately, Theresa May and David Davis indicated that they would be rejecting even this. They felt that they had received a clear instruction from the electorate that free movement of people must end, and that they could not negotiate on that principle.

Let me be clear : I and the Scottish Government fully respect the mandate secured by the Leave campaign on June 23rd. But that mandate is not a UK mandate. It is an England and Wales mandate. Just as we respect that England and Wales mandate, so must the UK government respect the overwhelming Scottish mandate for Remain. For us, Remain means Remain.

It is now clear that, in spite of our best and most strenuous endeavours, there is no formula acceptable to both governments that can reconcile the two conflicting mandates. While we are grateful to the UK government for being true to their word and listening to our proposals, I'm afraid listening is not enough. As they do not feel able to compromise, I must tell you that we will be opposing the UK government's negotiating stance on Brexit. There will be no 'agreed UK negotiating position' that enjoys the support of the Scottish Government. We will instead intensify our preparations for an independence referendum, which is now inevitable, although we remain open-minded about the timing."

Since Theresa May has said that she won't trigger Article 50 until there is an agreed UK negotiating position, and since it is so difficult to see how there can be an agreed UK negotiating position, is this not just a ploy to delay things as far as possible, in the hope that Brexit withers on the vine and everyone forgets about it?

Right-wing Brexiteers are already not amused - see their reaction to the court case arguing that the UK government can't trigger Chapter 50 without parliamentary approval. And their not-amusement is likely to escalate as the complexities grow in the coming months and May appears to prevaricate.

From this viewpoint May's emphasis on her own unionism can be read as a very long-term strategic move. It can be taken to mean "The UK union is crucial, more important than anything else, more important even than Brexit. If those obstinate Scots insist on staying in the EU then - with the greatest reluctance - I will abandon Brexit".

I'm not saying this comes anywhere near the top of May's game strategies. But it's a possible scenario and it could become attractive to May if public opinion seems to move against Brexit and/or there are splits in the Tory party.

Anyone who thinks David Davis, Boris and Fox will be anywhere near a unified coherent position and plan acceptable to all wings of the tory party (never mind NI and Scotland) in 5 months or so are living in a world of make believe with lollypop trees and candyfloss clouds.

They are laughably unprepared with Davis providing some hilarious moments when he talked about his department and 'responsiblities' the other day. Davis admitted he'll have to hire a few hundred or so more people to cope. Sure, sure, and that small army of civil servants/lobbyists hoping for a quick trade payday will all be as top of the line and up to speed as the rest of May's cabinet of third raters, won't they?

Be in no doubt.

There is a reason tory MPs are absolutely desperate to fly away on their hols and forget about the impending disaster and clusterfuck that's been set in motion.

The tories are still trapped in getting past the next 5 minutes just like the Blairites are. Panicking short termism is the ONLY thing we are seeing.

They have no plan which is precisely why it LOOKS like they have no plan and are bumbling through serious legislation with all the care and attention of a chimp in a shit throwing contest.

"Theresa May has said that she won't trigger Article 50 until there is an agreed UK negotiating position," - here's a wee analysis of ll the questions may's statement raises, together with the view that unionists now have to make a decision. Scots and N. ireland nationalists/republicans know what they want - unionists now have to opt for one union (UK) or the other (EU)

Knickerless has locked herself in. The only option for her to stay in the EU is to go for another referendum. The options for the Scots is keep what you have or maybe end up a Greek Tragedy. But at least our young unemployed may be allowed over the border created by the Nat sis to find some work. The English are a pragmatic and generous lot.So what about this Scottish pound the Nat sis are now talking about! No doubt more Nat si propoganda to keep their faithful on board..

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

Those who voted to leave the EU are not'Brit nats ' or right wing. The vote was tipped by Labour Party supporters turning out in droves, hardly right wing . And what about the 38% of SNP supporters who voted to leave, are they Brit nats. The EU is deeply unpopular amongst the working class , and at the end of the day it's those people that count the most

"In truth, if the finger of blame for remain’s defeat is to be pointed anywhere it is better directed at the prime minister rather than Corbyn. David Cameron failed to bring his party with him at all, and in the event that simply proved too much of a handicap for the pro-EU camp to overcome."

The vote was tipped by racism being made acceptable by a group of politicians who should know better. Then we had an inept campaign from the remain side which focussed on threats and effective bullying, when in fact there was - and is - a positive case for remaining in the EU.

I learned more about the way it all works after I voted than I knew before - and I am politicised. What chance did a casual voter have when they have been subjected to years of disinformation because it suited politicians of all sides to scapegoat the EU for everything?

Which group of voters voted which way or not is neither here nor there. For SNP voters who believe in total independence, it is not unreasonable to vote leave. But lets not pretend that the swing votes were anything other than ill informed xenophobes. Unto thyself be true.

Don't want to interrupt this fascinating verbal "tug of war" or anything -- apologies if I seem a little "pushy" or "forward" -- but I felt I just had to point out that there's a certain type of Scots Unionist who finds puns like Jock/Joke just astonishingly (gulp) HOT!!! And I'm not ashamed to say I'm one of them.

It is more than reasonable James. I think seeking a Norway solution though is to overstep what the Scots voted for though. No joint UK negotiating position for Brexit is possible as the Brit Nat Tories and the useless Brit Nat Labour opposition wont agree to such a position in the first place as the loony jack booting Brit Nat Press and Media would crucify them and back would come the Nigel stronger than ever.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

A British vote only in the sense that all of the participants live there and gibraltar. Anyone who knows legal history would understand the nuance created by the

Claim of Right, the Treaty of Union, MacCormick v Lord Advocate, Axa et al v Lord Advocate.So in fact it was a separate vote by each of the constituent nations of the UK and each one needs to be separately respected.So how can Scotland remain in both the UK and the EU? Which would respect the result of both referendums.Answer no Brexit.

If rUK doesn't like this then it would be a simple matter for Westminster to pass an EVEL act to dissolve the Union. No referendum required.

Good to see you back, Nadine, but why are you calling yourself Glasgow Working Class, my love? You've never been farther north than Buxton, you silly thing. Lunch at La Lanterna on Saturday, my sweetness?

I think you are absolutely correct and that Westminster,once they have sorted out their shortage of labour (on the EU exit negotiating front),will plough ahead and ignore Scotland,as usual.A referendum on Scots retaining their rights as EU citizens beckons.However,this time,those Scots who were fooled previously into thinking they were better together with England will have been exposed to the truth that the parliament in England,whose government is elected by English votes and where Scottish votes count for nothing,is England's parliament,not ours.Allowing England to represent Scottish interests has lead us to where we now are and Scots are going to have to decide whether they are happy with that or not.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The threat does change and contracts will change. The naive Nat sis led by the other half of the Krankies is in no position to protect the economic interests of the UK never mind Scotland. And the shysters say they want to remain in NATO.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

Anyone who entertains, even for a second, the utterly absurd notion that May and her hastily cobbled together cabinet of third raters is keen for an election any time soon doesn't have a fucking clue about the sheer scale of the task she has embarked on by putting Boris, Fox and Davis 'in charge' of the Brexit talks/negotiations.

'We'll just put the already cripplingly harsh Brexit timetable on hold for a few months to call a snap election when we didn't have the balls to even go to the tory party membership in case they didn't vote for May.'

Yeeeeeah, not gonna happen.

Any talk of a snap election is out of touch westminster bubble twits who don't know the difference between amusing toryboy hype and reality.

They are in no shape to fight an election and Labour being a shambles does not make them any less of one themselves.

Nothing would delight me more than an opportunity to campaign DIRECTLY against the tories in a GE campaign after the Tory HYPERSHAMBLES over the EU referendum.

Sadly, the truth is even the westminster bubble twits couldn't be so stupid as to to rely on a couple of polls straight after the EU referendum tested their clueless reliance on them and their campaigning 'ability' to utter destruction.

Any talk of a snap election is out of touch tory and westminster bubble twits who have the memory of a goldfish and have somehow forgotten just how colossal a twat the tories made of themselves over the EU referendum.

Hey, I'm expecting her to run til 2020, but some of the news-shits are suggesting it. The Labour Party is not due to elect Jezza until their September conference. Its after that they will melt down. UKIP are not finished yet, but they might be if they do go ahead with Brexit. Both those things are medium term and help increase the Tory majority. So does Scotland leaving the UK btw. Their majority would be unassailable today if 59 Scots seats were not there at all. And thats before boundary changes.

But as to the flat denial of Ms May herself. She's a politician. They speak with forked tongue.

Labour 'needing' scotland to win is a fallacy. It just ain't true as the historical record shows.

The Blairites are doing a fine job of blowing their own feet off and will continue to do so for the next couple of months. IF they attempt to try and form their own party if/when Corbyn gets re-elected then expect a massive chunk of Labour MPs who were backing them to suddenly remember that they were elected as Labour MPs and slink back to the party. (it's already started as you can see from the tweet below)

Certainly doesn't mean Corbyn or Labour will be likely to win any time soon but it does mean that a functioning opposition will return in time.

Which BTW is why so many tories and their media lapdogs are desperately hyping up the Blairite incompetents since the last thing May can withstand is some pointed questioning about precisely what she has 'planned', if anything, longer than 5 minutes ahead.

Kipper polling is as relevant this far out from Brexit as tory polling is. The impossible solution of having your cake and eating it will not fly so something will have to give. If it's the single market the Cameroons and economic tories will soon put a spanner in those works. While if it's free movement and a pie in the sky 'crackdown' on immigration then the Brexiteers and the kippers will go ballistic and the polling will reflect that.

Going to the polls after flatly denying the need for it and claiming that Brexit comes first? Yeah, it might not be quite Clegg level stupidity but it will be a hammerblow when complete uncertainty takes over the country and the markets yet again. As it would.

The troll is a racist imbecile but also a complete irrelevance. Everyone who comes to this blog will know what he is.

The troll advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, praises Theresa May and displays a strange and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

The troll also advocates arming Leave campaigners to "defend democracy", uses racial and ethnic slurs while claiming they're not insults, and displays a strange, perverted and poisonous obsession with the First Minister and her predecessor.

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