Yes, I really hope this will be removed. However as others have already stated, if you are going to do this, please improve the tiered spenders. 50 NT clays on tier 1 is good, but most other tiers are simply not enough.

On logging multiple accounts rule...

There are two major problems with running dungeons with alts;

1- Way too much gold is added into the game by every single person.

2- This absolutely kills party runs, as you can make 4-5x more gold by running a dungeon with your alts.

For these reasons, I really hope running dungeons with alts wont be a thing anymore. Party runs should be back, and people shouldnt be able to make 20k+ gold every 30 mins.

That being said, this rule should only be restricted to making gold in dungeons. So people should be allowed to;

Also, please consider increasing the gold reward from lvl 86+ dungeons if you are going to implement this rule.

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Tell me, on the multi logging to run alts through dungeons rule, if I can't run my alts anymore and I can solo the dungeon in under 2 minutes why should I join a party of people who will just slow down the run? This isn't going to help people who couldn't find a party because the only people running alts through dungeons are speed runners who would never join regular parties to begin with. And if I have to sell runs to non guild members I'm going to charge 90% of the MO gold to make up for my time. This rule helps no one.

Tell me, on the multi logging to run alts through dungeons rule, if I can't run my alts anymore and I can solo the dungeon in under 2 minutes why should I join a party of people who will just slow down the run? This isn't going to help people who couldn't find a party because the only people running alts through dungeons are speed runners who would never join regular parties to begin with. And if I have to sell runs to non guild members I'm going to charge 90% of the MO gold to make up for my time. This rule helps no one.

In most MMORPGs, when you can "easily" solo a dungeon, you move on to the next one, you dont just open multiple clients to make more money in that dungeon. People dont really do that in this game cuz dungeon gold rewards do not really scale. Thats why I'm suggesting an increase in gold rewards for high lvl dungeons. Also this is supposed to be an MMORPG, it should be played with other people, not with your alts.

People need to stop crying about the fact that removing AP selling will "hurt the economy". Not necessarily, here's what will happen.

I will dumb it down as much as I can for those who are not enlightened on this topic regarding economics and what not.

Because now most players effectively have less gold due to the fact that they can't sell AP (and no multi clienting), items will naturally drop in value. What we need to do here as players (and Aeria) :

A. is beg Aeria to improve their tiered spenders (AND THEIR CLAY TABLES) to improve the flow of items into the game

B. increase the flow of gold into players' (not drastically) pockets from the game itself, since you guys removed multi clienting (which is basically why everything was so expensive in the first place), look for ways to improve gold flow from dungeons and other pve based events to support some of the loss of gold income.

My final point will just be a summary.

C. since everything will become effectively cheaper (as it should), those who use to sell AP cards will now need to start selling clays (or use, depending on the quality of tables) and tiered spender items like they use to way back, however, Aeria has to step up and seriously improve their clay tables and tiered spenders. Those who use to multi client will not really be hurt as they were the ones inflating everything in the first place since they could grind for insane amounts of gold in relatively short periods of time (if you consider the amount of gold they were making it was worth the effort). Doing dungeons normally, considering everything should become cheaper, they will still be able to afford items. Finally those who use to buy AP will likely just have to go back to merching (buy low sell high).

I think in the long term this is a much better move but Aeria has to play it right, and judging by the past its hard to trust them on that lol.

I'm sorry how will items become less valuable. The way I see it items will become more valuable, because ppl are not going to spend hundreds on ap. The less items there are the higher the price. The demand will stay the same but stock levels will fall because there will be no one to provide it. Providers are going to milk every last copper they can out of people, banning duel logging just makes the situation worse because people won't be able to afford necessities, due to the inflation that will happen.

You make a very fair point with this Jets how ever it CAN also swing against us in the short run. You're thinking very long term and IF the game can with stand exactly what SilkyDevil said. There will be a massive inflation before any pricing comes down. But again Aeria needs to really consider improving tiered spender by either better rewards for the high spendage or lower the actual spendage needed to claim rewards. This has often been an issue and never came to fruition so i dont feel the game can realistically last the inflation of prices. HOWEVER the more i think about the idea of removal of AP trading though Pins the more it makes sense and I really feel the Aeria team needs to consider listening to GSDark on the idea he mentioned in discord. Its a safer much more realistic way to trade AP points. If people are cleaver they will only get the 'item' of AP points not pins which should theoretically bring down the issues with scammers but this wont bring down the prices in AH/trade on items straight away.

Summery of this:

-I think Jets view is the long term result

-I think SilkyDevil's view is the short term result

-Aeria needs to review tiered spender to either lower the cost of ap for each tier/make the high ap spend worth it by better/more sort out items

-Please listen to GSDark's idea about making an AP item to allow for some form of trading instead

- it would be safer all round, (reducing people being scammed)

-encourage people buying ap to use ap to buy/change these ap items,

-limit how many of these AP items can be changed over per account to reduce AP selling,

- Still allow for AP Pins to be banned from being sold

On the topic of accounts, I've again had a rethink on how this could be effective as long as they talk to those who work with the portal and instead of banning multi-client out right (except for trading/banking), consider allowing only TWO windows being open at any given time and still allow for players to plvl their alts/ use alts for buffs/lover buffs. One major reason people prefer to lover up with themselves is to prevent waiting on another person to be online AND some people don't always view the lover/marriage system as something for buffs/titles but as a way of saying 'We're an item now, we're a couple' so they see the system as an actual dating system. Which is fine to an extent but does cause issues for some of us who just want the buffs/titles and then later on get harassed cos we're are told 'yes just buffs' and then the person decides to make it more than what it is. Personally i need to lover myself for that reason as i feel safer and more able to play the game. Not only that not many people willingly play healing classes and trying to get buffs can be really hard especially when we need them most, being able to buff myself instead of waiting hours to try and convince another to help me is way more efficient for me and i know i can help others if they can't/don't wish to duel client for buffs. Not only that paying someone to help me lvl isn't affordable for most people, id much rather help myself than relay on people who may AFK in the middle of a dungeon run/plvling especially if the are charging me for this. 90% of plays do not use the multi-client system to gain gold, and to 'punish' the majority for what a few do is still silly to me. There must be a middle ground that pleases all. And as a company, Aeria should be considering a middle ground to reduce the number of people leaving. I've heard more people saying when 1st march comes round they are leaving game, or have already left because they feel the new rules are constraining their game play too much. Limiting the accounts will drastically reduce people farming for gold, but will effectively still force people to have to party with others, and again still encourage some trade of gold too. And also it would be wise to consider Mission Order limits to further stop issues with the gold farming.

Again, going back to the AP trading ban, if GSDark's idea is implemented, and you listen and put a restriction of how much AP can be converted to these items, it will still reduce the amount of AP that is being traded, still keep AP flowing, and slowly cause a drop in prices after only a small inflation. These would be a much gentler way to see results without losing too many players. Because lets face there will still be players that won't even accept a middle ground.

Summery of these paragraphs.

- Allow for only 2 clients at any one given time

- Allow players to multi-client with one other alt for buffs/lover buffs

- Allow players to plvl themselves (even if its only on non-restricted pve maps) to save the player some gold

- Consider a mission order limit to prevent people using two accounts to farm gold

In most MMORPGs, when you can "easily" solo a dungeon, you move on to the next one, you dont just open multiple clients to make more money in that dungeon. People dont really do that in this game cuz dungeon gold rewards do not really scale. Thats why I'm suggesting an increase in gold rewards for high lvl dungeons. Also this is supposed to be an MMORPG, it should be played with other people, not with your alts.

Not true, in 'most' mmorpgs there's atypically a time limit on dungeons so that problem doesn't occur in the first place. People still do lower level dungeons when necessary. If a dungeon is easy to do and unlimited it's only going to be natural to solo that instead of levelling into a dungeon that you need to gear for more and takes more time.

Just an increase in gold rewards (unless they're really substantial) still won't be good value for time for players to solo together. Of the endgame dungeons only DD is one that's easy enough to spam. Prismata is annoying because of the massive ass path and annoying requirements despites it's bosses being easy, Blazing Kaslow isn't bad but it's also quite tedious.

They'd need to change the endgame dungeons, which somehow i don't think will happen.

The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

I play this game with my dauther and my son-inlaw and we always play together on the same internet so i assume same ip so if this rule passes that would meen that we can never play together Gand Fantasia any more and that is something i do not want to happen.

The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

I play this game with my dauther and my son-inlaw and we always play together on the same internet so i assume same ip so if this rule passes that would meen that we can never play together Gand Fantasia any more and that is something i do not want to happen.

Presumably it would need to be same IP and Mac address for it to compromise your account. So I think you're fine.

I have a question for the GMs about the rule regarding multilogging. It states that we can't multi log alts to farm gold or power level them. Can I still multi log my alts and use all of them at once to collect mats and craft with my sprites?

I have a question for the GMs about the rule regarding multilogging. It states that we can't multi log alts to farm gold or power level them. Can I still multi log my alts and use all of them at once to collect mats and craft with my sprites?

no i dont want you to do that because then you would have an advantage that normal players without alts dont have !!!! *sarcasm off*

Regarding the increase of MO rewards, I agree that it should be done. I really think Prismata and Distorted Dimension should give more money for doing them.

Here's my suggestion and why I think so, starting from ACV:

ACV - 100g

ACV is the highest lvl dungeon worth doing before reaching lvl 68 (as shown in the next dungeon). This is important because, as we all know, 61+ is very expensive in terms of skills, especially 66-68 due to lots of new skills from class change. 75g per run is really low imo for a dungeon which takes a considerable amount of time to do as a party of not OP people.

SMF - ???

The reason I put ??? for this dungeon is because it's absolutely stupid imo. The difficulty of that dungeon for a new player plus the time needed to just run it and kill just the bosses even as an OP char is really extremely high compared to the return. The dungeon would have to give 200g+ to be at least somewhat reasonable to run regularly.

PT - 150g

To start off, I really don't see why the reward was reduced to 135g anyways. The 10% reward decrease really did nothing in terms of game economics or anything at all for that matter. It just made some people quit PT and move on to BFR leech buying. 150g is a good amount of money to set a standard, as PT is the most commonly ran dungeon in a regular party.

BFR - 200g

BFR is about as long as PT when running, or even faster if parties split. But it also has the last 2 bosses which require a specific party setup for regular runs, plus the burn DoT is really strong from the lions, so a 50g increase from PT is reasonable.

FT - 225g

I know, 225 is the old reward. The reason I think it's fair is because FT isn't really hard. It's kinda like a bit buffed up PT, and therefore shouldn't have a significant increase from the previous dungeon.

As you can see, I believe old rewards were ok, except SMF which is unreasonably long and difficult for its lvl range. But the reward itself isn't the point I'm making, as you'll see with the next dungeons.

CS - 275/300g

Can we take a moment to see how long CS would take even with an OP party? Having to kill all mobs, then break specific map objects (which can't be broken using AoEs mind you), then more mobs, all of that just to get to the bosses. And the reward for all that is about 25g more than FT I think?

CI - 350g

I remember doing this dungeon with a party of a 91 destro, me (88 DK), a 91 AA and a 94 Druid and it was still hard. And it can't be split ran due to the dungeon mechanics. You get to the first boss after getting magic spammed, burned and I believe armor-cracked all along the way, just to get thrown around by mobs pulling you in all possible directions if you tank them. You finally kill the first boss, go through the minefield, kill the second boss, all the guards etc, and you get to the third boss. Now if you don't have high enough DPS to kill her before her def and dmg reduc skyrocket, you're stuck trying to survive her magic AoE which give you an annoying as hell debuff (can't remember what it was exactly) and have to wait for the right time to use the white xtal. So you finally kill her and go for the final boss, only to get killed by it from god knows what (might be magic or reflect, I really don't know). And after you're finally done, you get a 200-ish reward. Which is a bit higher than the ticket you needed to enter.

Prismata - 400g

Now Prismata was always a pain in my butt. All the debuffs that you get spammed with are just annoying. The dungeon itself isn't that hard though. But it's annoying from the debuffs and it's a lvl 91+ dungeon (I think it's 91+). I really think getting anything less than 350g for this dungeon is stupid and just not worth it.

DD - 500g

Now I personally haven't tried DD. I just heard that it's cancer. Like, worse than the new map which is for reincarnated chars only. And that place really is cancer. Also, it's the end-game dungeon which will be end-game for a long time, as lvl cap isn't getting higher any time soon. We'll get second reincarnation before getting a new lvl cap increase. So it really should be rewarding for the players who worked hard on reaching those high lvls.

Also, if higher lvl dungeons had better rewards, people would be less inclined to multi-client low lvl dungeons, and implementing the dual logging rule would be much more logical then. It'd also be a smart move as it'd give people more incentive to head for the higher lvls, making them spend more money on getting gear for the higher lvls, ultimately making people buy more AP. It should be quite obvious how it'd corelate.

Senhaken i like your general ideas but the amount of some dungeons seem to be a bit random.

For CS 300g if you still need 3-5x time of ft ? even if 1 run yields 75g more than ft you would get a small amount compared by time. So CS should be around 900-1.000. Seems high right ? But it takes 5-10 minutes per run if the party knows what to do ( you dont need to kill all mobs just a few of a certain kind ).

Prismata should get first the removal of the tickets to enter. A system for a dungeon that not even need it ( earlier it was useful but when BK was released prismata was unneccessary ). Then you can do split runs in this dungeon. Gold yield should be same like CS 1k-1.2k per run because you still need some time for the run and for lvl 88+ its ok to get this amount.

DD hmm the dungeon dont take so long for good parties so i guess 500g is ok for that.

But everyone forgets about the dungeons on timeshifted maps. The lvl 85 CM dungeon is really nice but 2xx g isnt worth doing it. Maybe raise it up to like 400-500g ea run.

First of all i want to thank everybody for writing here, it's very nice to see the community so active and interested.

Sencondly, I want to apologize for the way the rules were published. The launch of the forum was accelerated due to technical reasons and this rushed the whole process, forcing me to bring up the new rules bofore I had planned. I understand this is not the way we all want the important changes to be implemented and I can only promise to try to improve the communication in the future.

This said, I've read the whole feedback you posted here, all what anybody wrote to me on Discord, we were talking in the team and I we decided the following:

- About the Prepaid, Rixty, AP card trade:

I would like to explain first the reasons of this measure. We can see this trade is a useful tool for players to reach the higher levels of the Loyalty Programs and/or to gain access to AP content without a big spent of money. However, it is also a terribly useful tool for botters, scammers and all kind of exploiters, since it makes it relatively easy to take the money out of the game and convert it into real money.

As we regularly see, exploits and account security are two of the biggest concerns for most of the players (just last week we could see the Phishing attack and how fast scammers can loot an account for gold, with the hope of converting this gold into real money or into AP they can try to convert in other Aeria games), so we can't take this issue lightly.

I have seen the feedback about this rule is mixed, ncerns being mainly about the game balance and the potential rise on the prices of the high-tier TS items. We do share your concern about this, and we will monitorize the evolution of the prices and think about ways to adapt the Loyalty Programs to re-balance this difference, but the necessity of this rule feels too big in this moment to remove it. Another concern is the difficulty of tracking this trade and the possibility of this rule to lead to a witch hunt on the server. I can only say about this that I always try to get enough evidence about an infraction before sanctioning an account and I will be extra careful about these reports since it's a new topic and it will be really easy to report players wrongfully during the first weeks/months.

- About the Multiclienting rule:

Again, the reasons of these rule are fundamentally two: in the first place, the constant increment of the ammount of gold in the server is creating recurring issues, raising the prices of all utility items and making the game very difficult for new or casual players. Second, again, a multiclienting ban would be a very useful tool to fight exploits.

The feedback in this case has been generally against the measure, which has made me reconsider this rule. I understand that this rule combined with the one concerning AP trade can make the differences between spenders and non-spenders too big and prevent some dedicated players to gear to the top level. Moreover, there is the risk of a general drop on the played hours and on the interest in the game for many players, a risk big enough to make us reconsider this decision and work on finding alternative ways to decrease the ammount of gold in the server.

tl;dr

Multiclienting will be permitted, AP trading won't.

Thanks a lot again for your help here and your engagement with the game,

First of all i want to thank everybody for writing here, it's very nice to see the community so active and interested.

Sencondly, I want to apologize for the way the rules were published. The launch of the forum was accelerated due to technical reasons and this rushed the whole process, forcing me to bring up the new rules bofore I had planned. I understand this is not the way we all want the important changes to be implemented and I can only promise to try to improve the communication in the future.

This said, I've read the whole feedback you posted here, all what anybody wrote to me on Discord, we were talking in the team and I we decided the following:

- About the Prepaid, Rixty, AP card trade:

I would like to explain first the reasons of this measure. We can see this trade is a useful tool for players to reach the higher levels of the Loyalty Programs and/or to gain access to AP content without a big spent of money. However, it is also a terribly useful tool for botters, scammers and all kind of exploiters, since it makes it relatively easy to take the money out of the game and convert it into real money.

As we regularly see, exploits and account security are two of the biggest concerns for most of the players (just last week we could see the Phishing attack and how fast scammers can loot an account for gold, with the hope of converting this gold into real money or into AP they can try to convert in other Aeria games), so we can't take this issue lightly.

I have seen the feedback about this rule is mixed, ncerns being mainly about the game balance and the potential rise on the prices of the high-tier TS items. We do share your concern about this, and we will monitorize the evolution of the prices and think about ways to adapt the Loyalty Programs to re-balance this difference, but the necessity of this rule feels too big in this moment to remove it. Another concern is the difficulty of tracking this trade and the possibility of this rule to lead to a witch hunt on the server. I can only say about this that I always try to get enough evidence about an infraction before sanctioning an account and I will be extra careful about these reports since it's a new topic and it will be really easy to report players wrongfully during the first weeks/months.

- About the Multiclienting rule:

Again, the reasons of these rule are fundamentally two: in the first place, the constant increment of the ammount of gold in the server is creating recurring issues, raising the prices of all utility items and making the game very difficult for new or casual players. Second, again, a multiclienting ban would be a very useful tool to fight exploits.

The feedback in this case has been generally against the measure, which has made me reconsider this rule. I understand that this rule combined with the one concerning AP trade can make the differences between spenders and non-spenders too big and prevent some dedicated players to gear to the top level. Moreover, there is the risk of a general drop on the played hours and on the interest in the game for many players, a risk big enough to make us reconsider this decision and work on finding alternative ways to decrease the ammount of gold in the server.

tl;dr

Multiclienting will be permitted, AP trading won't.

Thanks a lot again for your help here and your engagement with the game,

The GF team.

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Thank you for such a detailed explanation on the reasons behind the rules and I cannot stress enough thanks for the decision to remove the multi clienting rule. I can get behind the ban on AP card selling as the reasons do make sense. Overall I'd say well done. May not have pleased everyone but I think this was the best possible outcome.

First of all i want to thank everybody for writing here, it's very nice to see the community so active and interested.

Sencondly, I want to apologize for the way the rules were published. The launch of the forum was accelerated due to technical reasons and this rushed the whole process, forcing me to bring up the new rules bofore I had planned. I understand this is not the way we all want the important changes to be implemented and I can only promise to try to improve the communication in the future.

This said, I've read the whole feedback you posted here, all what anybody wrote to me on Discord, we were talking in the team and I we decided the following:

- About the Prepaid, Rixty, AP card trade:

I would like to explain first the reasons of this measure. We can see this trade is a useful tool for players to reach the higher levels of the Loyalty Programs and/or to gain access to AP content without a big spent of money. However, it is also a terribly useful tool for botters, scammers and all kind of exploiters, since it makes it relatively easy to take the money out of the game and convert it into real money.

As we regularly see, exploits and account security are two of the biggest concerns for most of the players (just last week we could see the Phishing attack and how fast scammers can loot an account for gold, with the hope of converting this gold into real money or into AP they can try to convert in other Aeria games), so we can't take this issue lightly.

I have seen the feedback about this rule is mixed, ncerns being mainly about the game balance and the potential rise on the prices of the high-tier TS items. We do share your concern about this, and we will monitorize the evolution of the prices and think about ways to adapt the Loyalty Programs to re-balance this difference, but the necessity of this rule feels too big in this moment to remove it. Another concern is the difficulty of tracking this trade and the possibility of this rule to lead to a witch hunt on the server. I can only say about this that I always try to get enough evidence about an infraction before sanctioning an account and I will be extra careful about these reports since it's a new topic and it will be really easy to report players wrongfully during the first weeks/months.

- About the Multiclienting rule:

Again, the reasons of these rule are fundamentally two: in the first place, the constant increment of the ammount of gold in the server is creating recurring issues, raising the prices of all utility items and making the game very difficult for new or casual players. Second, again, a multiclienting ban would be a very useful tool to fight exploits.

The feedback in this case has been generally against the measure, which has made me reconsider this rule. I understand that this rule combined with the one concerning AP trade can make the differences between spenders and non-spenders too big and prevent some dedicated players to gear to the top level. Moreover, there is the risk of a general drop on the played hours and on the interest in the game for many players, a risk big enough to make us reconsider this decision and work on finding alternative ways to decrease the ammount of gold in the server.

tl;dr

Multiclienting will be permitted, AP trading won't.

Thanks a lot again for your help here and your engagement with the game,

The GF team.

Display More

First of all, thanks a lot for the detailed response! Really appreciate it personally.

I'm also glad that it's visible that you really read through the feedback, or at the very least most of it.

Now to throw in my own 2 cents regarding the response.

I understand the AP trading ban and, after reading this, I agree with it. However, I think that more rewarding Tiered Spenders are a must in order to counter-balance the almost certain rise in item prices. But, as long as you're keeping an eye on it and are ready to take counter-measures, I'm fine with the decision.

As for reducing the major flow of gold into the server, maybe putting a limit on MOs would be a good idea, but if it's made as an account limit. Let's say each account can only do 20 of a certain dungeon per day. You could also make something like a MAC address filter which makes it so that any MAC addresses which have more than 2 accounts logged in are automatically disconnected. Or maybe edit the game itself so that if there's more than 2 processes named "Grand Fantasia" running at the same time on a PC, it crashes. I think these are certainly some options worth looking into.

First of all i want to thank everybody for writing here, it's very nice to see the community so active and interested.

Sencondly, I want to apologize for the way the rules were published. The launch of the forum was accelerated due to technical reasons and this rushed the whole process, forcing me to bring up the new rules bofore I had planned. I understand this is not the way we all want the important changes to be implemented and I can only promise to try to improve the communication in the future.

This said, I've read the whole feedback you posted here, all what anybody wrote to me on Discord, we were talking in the team and I we decided the following:

- About the Prepaid, Rixty, AP card trade:

I would like to explain first the reasons of this measure. We can see this trade is a useful tool for players to reach the higher levels of the Loyalty Programs and/or to gain access to AP content without a big spent of money. However, it is also a terribly useful tool for botters, scammers and all kind of exploiters, since it makes it relatively easy to take the money out of the game and convert it into real money.

As we regularly see, exploits and account security are two of the biggest concerns for most of the players (just last week we could see the Phishing attack and how fast scammers can loot an account for gold, with the hope of converting this gold into real money or into AP they can try to convert in other Aeria games), so we can't take this issue lightly.

I have seen the feedback about this rule is mixed, ncerns being mainly about the game balance and the potential rise on the prices of the high-tier TS items. We do share your concern about this, and we will monitorize the evolution of the prices and think about ways to adapt the Loyalty Programs to re-balance this difference, but the necessity of this rule feels too big in this moment to remove it. Another concern is the difficulty of tracking this trade and the possibility of this rule to lead to a witch hunt on the server. I can only say about this that I always try to get enough evidence about an infraction before sanctioning an account and I will be extra careful about these reports since it's a new topic and it will be really easy to report players wrongfully during the first weeks/months.

- About the Multiclienting rule:

Again, the reasons of these rule are fundamentally two: in the first place, the constant increment of the ammount of gold in the server is creating recurring issues, raising the prices of all utility items and making the game very difficult for new or casual players. Second, again, a multiclienting ban would be a very useful tool to fight exploits.

The feedback in this case has been generally against the measure, which has made me reconsider this rule. I understand that this rule combined with the one concerning AP trade can make the differences between spenders and non-spenders too big and prevent some dedicated players to gear to the top level. Moreover, there is the risk of a general drop on the played hours and on the interest in the game for many players, a risk big enough to make us reconsider this decision and work on finding alternative ways to decrease the ammount of gold in the server.

tl;dr

Multiclienting will be permitted, AP trading won't.

Thanks a lot again for your help here and your engagement with the game,

The GF team.

Display More

After explaining the AP thing, it makes sense. I'm glad we're keeping multi-clienting and I am really glad you mentioned the consideration of changing tier spenders. If they're made cheaper I'm sure the server will stay in balance.

Wanted to add if no consideration in changing tiered spenders at least make the ITEM MALL cheaper? The prices that are in item mall never correspond to the actual economy. 60$ for a pair of wings? skrrrt.

First of all i want to thank everybody for writing here, it's very nice to see the community so active and interested.

Sencondly, I want to apologize for the way the rules were published. The launch of the forum was accelerated due to technical reasons and this rushed the whole process, forcing me to bring up the new rules bofore I had planned. I understand this is not the way we all want the important changes to be implemented and I can only promise to try to improve the communication in the future.

This said, I've read the whole feedback you posted here, all what anybody wrote to me on Discord, we were talking in the team and I we decided the following:

- About the Prepaid, Rixty, AP card trade:

I would like to explain first the reasons of this measure. We can see this trade is a useful tool for players to reach the higher levels of the Loyalty Programs and/or to gain access to AP content without a big spent of money. However, it is also a terribly useful tool for botters, scammers and all kind of exploiters, since it makes it relatively easy to take the money out of the game and convert it into real money.

As we regularly see, exploits and account security are two of the biggest concerns for most of the players (just last week we could see the Phishing attack and how fast scammers can loot an account for gold, with the hope of converting this gold into real money or into AP they can try to convert in other Aeria games), so we can't take this issue lightly.

I have seen the feedback about this rule is mixed, ncerns being mainly about the game balance and the potential rise on the prices of the high-tier TS items. We do share your concern about this, and we will monitorize the evolution of the prices and think about ways to adapt the Loyalty Programs to re-balance this difference, but the necessity of this rule feels too big in this moment to remove it. Another concern is the difficulty of tracking this trade and the possibility of this rule to lead to a witch hunt on the server. I can only say about this that I always try to get enough evidence about an infraction before sanctioning an account and I will be extra careful about these reports since it's a new topic and it will be really easy to report players wrongfully during the first weeks/months.

- About the Multiclienting rule:

Again, the reasons of these rule are fundamentally two: in the first place, the constant increment of the ammount of gold in the server is creating recurring issues, raising the prices of all utility items and making the game very difficult for new or casual players. Second, again, a multiclienting ban would be a very useful tool to fight exploits.

The feedback in this case has been generally against the measure, which has made me reconsider this rule. I understand that this rule combined with the one concerning AP trade can make the differences between spenders and non-spenders too big and prevent some dedicated players to gear to the top level. Moreover, there is the risk of a general drop on the played hours and on the interest in the game for many players, a risk big enough to make us reconsider this decision and work on finding alternative ways to decrease the ammount of gold in the server.

tl;dr

Multiclienting will be permitted, AP trading won't.

Thanks a lot again for your help here and your engagement with the game,

The GF team.

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Thank you for giving us an explanation to the new rules. I absolutely agree with the AP but I don't believe it can be stopped completely, people will do what they want despite rules. I still feel you should try finding a safer way to allow for some sort of AP trade to avoid people doing it in secret and getting themselves in to trouble, on the other hand maybe it will work out when people understand the risks. Hopefully the tier spender stuff gets sorted out soon and at the very least lowered as people are not going to have the money or the trading to get to the top tiers.

On the second point about multi clienting, its wonderful to hear that this has been reversed. This will help keep the game alive and i suppose a good starting point as a middle ground. What you should consider and it was mentioned before and after you're post is having a mission order limit but you could also consider limiting the number of accounts that can be opened on a single computer. This will help reduce the amount of gold on the server.

I understand keeping multi clienting is what everyone wanted, but I am willing to bet a whole lot that keeping multi clienting was a poor bandaid solution to them not being able to just increase MO gold on dungeons as a whole.

Sad to see multi clienting as one of the only sufficient ways of making gold in this game, takes away from the whole MMO aspect tbh, the fact that people have to make alts upon alts is funny lol.

You could have taken a long term, healthy approach to fixing your game but again, you resort to short term rushed solutions and refuse to take risks.

I guess items will stay expensive and judging by this response I doubt any changes will be made to the tiered spenders.

I understand keeping multi clienting is what everyone wanted, but I am willing to bet a whole lot that keeping multi clienting was a poor bandaid solution to them not being able to just increase MO gold on dungeons as a whole.

Sad to see multi clienting as one of the only sufficient ways of making gold in this game, takes away from the whole MMO aspect tbh, the fact that people have to make alts upon alts is funny lol.

You could have taken a long term, healthy approach to fixing your game but again, you resort to short term rushed solutions and refuse to take risks.

I guess items will stay expensive and judging by this response I doubt any changes will be made to the tiered spenders.

Edit : Spelling

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Your logic isn't really strong I see... if MO rewards get increased, do you SERIOUSLY think prices will stay the same? You'd have a sudden inflation in a week, all prices being multiplied by around the same factor as MO rewards increase. Let's say all MO rewards get doubled. Clay prices would also get doubled by people, and with that all other prices too. And you're still in the same spot, just made it harder for new people to get enough money to be strong enough to do the dungeons which matter.

Also, a lesson in economics. The reason some currencies are worth more than others is because of how common a single unit of each currency is. 1 dollar will get you a loaf of bread, while 1 yen will get you literally nothing. Yen is counted in quadrillions probably in Japan, maybe more, but those quadrillions are worth only a trillion dollars. Now to draw the lines for you, dollars are what we currectly have in-game with gold, you're literally suggesting we switch to yen. All our current money will be worth less than now and all items will cost higher amounts of the "new currency".

And before you ask what the hell I'm talking about with new currency and stuff like that, I'm talking metaphorically. The "new currency" is the new "worth of a single gold coin" in the game.

First of all i want to thank everybody for writing here, it's very nice to see the community so active and interested.

Hi there! You're welcome. That's what happens with a game as old as Grand Fantasia. The community rallies, and is passionate in their views on a game they've invested so much time and (in some cases) money into.

Alikar wrote:

[Secondly], I want to apologize for the way the rules were published. The launch of the forum was accelerated due to technical reasons and this rushed the whole process, forcing me to bring up the new rules [before] I had planned. I understand this is not the way we all want the important changes to be implemented and I can only promise to try to improve the communication in the future.

Quite understandable, and apology accepted. However, for the future, I would request that you please take the time to rehash, again, before making such broad announcements that have the potential to cause a dumpster fire on the forum. We understand that things happen, and they can happen beyond our control. However, the one thing we do have control over is our ability to choose to make inflammatory posts/comments or not.

Most of us here know the general rules to begin with. While there may have been a rush to get the forums up and running, rushing to post the new rules was not a necessity. Posts can be edited. Even new posts can be made to introduce new material. I only ask that you please take your time for the next time.

Alikar wrote:

[Stuff about AP code trades]

I can appreciate your thought process on this rule. However, it seems as though it's more proactive than reactive. When it comes to protecting your consumers' accounts from fraudulent activities, there is only so much you can do. To be frank, most of the responsibility falls on the account holder to make sure their in-game belongings remain secure. Regularly changing their password, not sharing account information with someone they don't implicitly trust, and simply being aware of obvious scams (and learning how to be keen on the not-so-obvious ones) are things that only the player themselves can do.

I strongly suggest that if this is going to be a rule (which, it obviously is; you said so yourself) then you should look at the trading of items between the Sanctum and Siwa servers (i.e. trading items on one server for items on the other.) In the announcements that go by regarding that, you're forcing the players involved to take responsibility for their decision; stating that there will be no reimbursement from Aeria if something goes awry. That exact same standing was in place for the trading of AP codes for years. To be honest, I find the risk of cross-server trading to have the potential to be even greater than single-server AP code trading, if you're worried about scamming; as there is no guarantee that both players play on both servers.

Alikar wrote:

[Stuff about multiclienting]

I'm glad you reconsidered this rule for the following reasons:

Inflation in a game, especially one as old as Grand Fantasia, is inevitable. Even with a new server like Siwa. People are going to come (and several have) from Sanctum with tricks up their sleeves on how to make the most gold in the fastest amount of time. The more people with this knowledge, the more potential gold flooding into the server. Some people will (and probably have) share this with their friends and guildies whom may be struggling to make gold. Which makes more gold.

Grand Fantasia is an ingenious game in the fact that just about everything you do is designed to be a gold sink. The largest one being sprites and their gathering and crafting (have you actually seen the cost of some of those yellows and purples to craft!?) It's a game based on RNG luck of the draw between success and failure; similar to Roulette, except you don't get to place the bet while the wheel spins. However, with the influx of legacy armors, SKB's, and MFI's, someone is capable of becoming decently geared on the handful of a few thousand gold with little to no risk (assuming they SKB and MFI for every craft/fortify step.) That, my dear Community Manager is something that you would need to work out on your end, in conjunction with the developers.

It would literally be impossible to tell whom is violating that rule. Let me give you a worst-case ticket report scenario:

I decide to run PT with 5 characters: "Lanoran", "Lanoren", "Lanorin", "Lanoron", and "Lanorun". Each are different classes, decently geared, and capable of running the dungeon solo. They all come out of the dungeon together, with full HP and MP, and turn in the Mission Order. Which one actually ran the dungeon, and which ones all did nothing but reap the benefits?

Take a moment to think on that. I'll wait.

Some would automatically assume it was "Lanoren", as that matches the basic name I go by. But, the reality of it is that it would be impossible to tell. Even looking at your records of each character and account, you wouldn't be able to tell. So, you arbitrarily ban all 5 accounts. You just lost a player, paying or not, based on a blanket hunch.

Back when I was a GS, many moons ago, we went through a similar scare and paranoia. Except, instead of people playing on multiple clients, it was people whom were using botting programs. It was assumed that if you were in crappy gear, and your sprite was completely unevolved, you were a bot. Even whispering wasn't a reliable way to tell, as some of these bots had subroutines specifically for basic conversation. Many accounts were banned during this time, and it's impossible to tell how many of them were truly botters, or were simply players that didn't know basic English, or any better on how to gear their character, or evolve their sprite.

Overall, I'm happy with how this all turned out. However, I still think you should continue to rethink the discrepancy with the first rule.

Your logic isn't really strong I see... if MO rewards get increased, do you SERIOUSLY think prices will stay the same? You'd have a sudden inflation in a week, all prices being multiplied by around the same factor as MO rewards increase. Let's say all MO rewards get doubled. Clay prices would also get doubled by people, and with that all other prices too. And you're still in the same spot, just made it harder for new people to get enough money to be strong enough to do the dungeons which matter.

Also, a lesson in economics. The reason some currencies are worth more than others is because of how common a single unit of each currency is. 1 dollar will get you a loaf of bread, while 1 yen will get you literally nothing. Yen is counted in quadrillions probably in Japan, maybe more, but those quadrillions are worth only a trillion dollars. Now to draw the lines for you, dollars are what we currectly have in-game with gold, you're literally suggesting we switch to yen. All our current money will be worth less than now and all items will cost higher amounts of the "new currency".

And before you ask what the hell I'm talking about with new currency and stuff like that, I'm talking metaphorically. The "new currency" is the new "worth of a single gold coin" in the game.

lol.

Name 3 popular MMO's that use multi clienting as a way of making gold through dungeons.

Furthermore, you don't have to increase MO gold across all dungeons. You can increase them at lower level dungeons which are literally irrelevant in terms of gold flow at the moment.

What Aeria did by removing AP selling and keeping multi clienting is essentially shooting themselves in the foot.

Who use to AP sell?

1. Low level players

2. People who can't multi client

3. People short on time

There are probably more categories, but you get my point.

Now you have effectively removed one of the only methods these people can make gold at a decent rate (you can talk to me all about selling clays and using the tiers but I doubt that would compete with the amount of gold you could make just by selling AP) and you left the players who were originally inflating the prices in the first place as is.

You really think multi clienters would sell AP with the gold they were making?

My point is, increase MO gold at lower level dungeons so that people who were not as geared, or newer to the game could actually compete with other players in the game, especially those who can multi client.

Also, increasing the gold on lower level dungeons and removing multi clienting will never result in the amount of inflation casued by multi clienting. Multi clienters make insane amounts of gold and everyone knows it.

Multi clienting is the major source of this games inflation but with how many of you rely on it no one is willing to admit it.

How do you expect to bring new players into the game when most of the sources of gold are locked out at end game and lower level content provides nothing to them? It's insanely hard for new players to progress at the moment.

Just to finish off, I am not one of the players in those 3 categories, I can multi client but geared enough to just rely on things like selling MPT or MBK, but there are players who cannot do any of those.

Name 3 popular MMO's that use multi clienting as a way of making gold through dungeons.

Furthermore, you don't have to increase MO gold across all dungeons. You can increase them at lower level dungeons which are literally irrelevant in terms of gold flow at the moment.

What Aeria did by removing AP selling and keeping multi clienting is essentially shooting themselves in the foot.

Who use to AP sell?

1. Low level players

2. People who can't multi client

3. People short on time

There are probably more categories, but you get my point.

Now you have effectively removed one of the only methods these people can make gold at a decent rate (you can talk to me all about selling clays and using the tiers but I doubt that would compete with the amount of gold you could make just by selling AP) and you left the players who were originally inflating the prices in the first place as is.

You really think multi clienters would sell AP with the gold they were making?

My point is, increase MO gold at lower level dungeons so that people who were not as geared, or newer to the game could actually compete with other players in the game, especially those who can multi client.

Also, increasing the gold on lower level dungeons and removing multi clienting will never result in the amount of inflation casued by multi clienting. Multi clienters make insane amounts of gold and everyone knows it.

Multi clienting is the major source of this games inflation but with how many of you rely on it no one is willing to admit it.

How do you expect to bring new players into the game when most of the sources of gold are locked out at end game and lower level content provides nothing to them? It's insanely hard for new players to progress at the moment.

Just to finish off, I am not one of the players in those 3 categories, I can multi client but geared enough to just rely on things like selling MPT or MBK, but there are players who cannot do any of those.

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Nothing is locked to new players except maybe pvp. The amount of gold you get in early dungeons combined with all the quests that hand you free crafting materials are more then enough for low levels to get started and make all their gear. If they can't get gear it's because they are too lazy to put time into crafting, and are too anti-social to band together for low level dungeon MOs if they are having trouble. Now days everyone just wants instant gratification, high level high forts and they don't wanna grind it themselves.

Source: the multiple alts I've made for funzies where I don't use any resources from my main at all or AP and just do all the starter quests and train my sprites. It's perfectly possible for a level 35 necro to solo CM in level 30 crafted gear.

I agree with Harlequin. Lowbies don't really need much at lower levels if they want to play. Also im not trying to get into this conversation and start arguing with any1 here i just think if people want to dual log for gold let them. They have to take there time on plvling there alts anyways. its there choice. i remember when i use to buy AP when i first started i didn't even know u can sell the AP card or i didn't even know there was a tier spender i just simply bought clays and sold them lol, and it worked fine for me. So people who use to sell AP just use and buy clays or something. ur not gonna get crazy gold like before but its better than nothing. sorry for bad spelling had to rush this..

Jets
You're mistaken here and we can already see how players can succeed at lower levels without needing extra gold as we've seen on Siwa. The only AP I'd spent there is the 399 free ap I did from surveys for that -def cap. I wasn't the only player who was able to otherwise progress in the game without spending actual money. Siwa started suffering after the levelling rewards were changed.

If anything low level players mostly need guidance not to be duped by a higher level who wants to resell ap cards for cash. Having others to play made gearing much easier.

Although they've deleted the last forum I have there previously already outlined how you can make more actually using your AP over the 5 account limit you have rather than selling it. Card selling was at best an option if you have no time to even sell your tier items on auction house (and if you're at that level why even bother playing?).

3.8 Every account is linked to one specific e-mail address. The number of accounts the User can establish is restricted to five. A separate e-mail address must be used for each of the accounts. One account can be used for all games.

I know the Terms of Service is long but yeah best to give it a review!

What does this mean then on the new rules? shouldn't it have said 5 on that post from the GM? i asked world chat and they said i can have as many accounts i want? what if me and my lover have 3 accounts each on the same internet, because we live with eachother.

What does this mean then on the new rules? shouldn't it have said 5 on that post from the GM? i asked world chat and they said i can have as many accounts i want? what if me and my lover have 3 accounts each on the same internet, because we live with eachother.

That's fine it's not like you're playing on the same computer. They can tell if people are living together because even if the IP is the same the mac address will be different, the name attached to the account will be different and the service email will be different and most likely the cards you use to buy ap will be different also.

Take what people say on World chat with a grain of salt especially if it's in contradiction with the terms of service.

Literally i feel everyone is missing the point and only maybe one or two have literally grasped about the rule change means. As it stands a lot of people use maybe 2 accounts tops at one time, just so they can buff themselves. The issue with this game is not about just gold farming or not (though this is a big issue) its the fact that 90% of the time if your not in a large active guild that's been going years and has max lvl, you're likely going to need to help yourself to get stuff done! People are all gold grabbers in this game, if they cant farm gold though dungeons, then they will extort low lvl players for dungeon runs even if they grab every quest and the MO once for the title so they can run the dungeon once, and people will still charge that lowbie 90% of the gold they earned from the MO if not more. People even charge for buffs! Plvling isn't simple any more its a business, everything in this game is 'how can i make money fast' and again its down to prices being high and low player base and greedy people not thinking. No matter what you implement it will take months if not years to drive down the prices because people are always scheming and trying to find short cuts.

On the topic of Jets mentioning that GMs are making 'quick' fixes they have to, to some extent. The game would die long before anyone would reap the benefits of only allowing for one game client at once and other rules that would reduce gold on the server, and drive down prices. There are ways around this! I've said this a few times now, several people have said this. And to be completely fair there is nothing wrong with mutliclienting to help yourself. BUT if there is such issues then there needs to be careful consideration of implementing a system that only allows for x amount of accounts though the client on one computer, there needs to be a SLIGHT rise of mo gold on ALL dungeons as well as an MO limit per account. This will massive reduce how much gold someone is earning, as well as forcing people to work together, and eventually reducing or ridding the need to charge each other for help. For me the biggest concern in this game is lack of socialisation between players and the greed present.

Multi clienting wouldn't be needed if people actually helped without forcing charging, however I also understand currently that people feel the need to make some quick income and that wont happen until GMs make some serious and needed changes. Respectfully tier required spend needs to be reduced to make it more worth while for a player to buy ap than look for someone to buy from, not only that making items more available will drive down prices, while its not an ideal solution it is one way to drive down prices if things are more available then things will ultimately be cheaper to move them. People like to believe they are getting a bargain as well they will also buy more than they realise and again would keep prices down as they might then try and sell them on or trade them away. There are loads of ways that you can drive down prices but ultimately it will still take time.

There is a lot to consider here and people should also try to understand that there is no quick fix, and while we all may not agree with the GMs decisions they are still trying to make a bad situation something that wont kill the game but still do some good with the server. Not everyone will be pleased with the decision, BUT the idea is to please as many players as possible to keep money flow to keep the game alive and GMs to get paid while trying to fix problems. Be patient, be understanding but always be respectful when giving feed back.

Sorry for the lecture but it seems that its a common thing here about people not understanding both sides only seeing their side then being harsh rather than showing they understand all points.