JFB expect all those extra toys to appear out of fresh air & run on grass.

This might be the intended balance for your extra capabilities.

Well, i love the idea of an extra challenge! I just don't get , yet, all the consequences of these reductions... Consider that it's my first time as japan, and despite i'm learning a lot everyday ( for example i know think i've completely understood the whole R&D process) the different cause-effect liasons of the economic actions you take are still a bit blured in my mind....

I don't understand if i'm already pushing too far with my industry or if i still have margins to move, expand, explore.....

Now here is what DBB Scenario 30 which is suppose to be Stock Scenario 2 moved over to DBB mod system. Notice the BIG difference in at start Supply and Fuel especially.

Everything is different Micheal...less oil wells, less aircraft factories...less of everything....

Damn! Now i fear i've stretched my economy too much thinking i had the same capabilities of a stock scenatio 2....better to stop investing and start to play more conservatively! No more ship acceleration, no morecrazy R&D stuff....no more engine bonus!!

Need to use this sunday to study my economy and make some decent math....

It is hard to find it out now, instead of at the start of the game. Ofcourse, it can be worked on. Take a close look on your stocks (Supply, fuel, HI etc) and take corrective actions. You know what costs supply, what costs a lot of supply and what doesn't..

You'll be going on the defensive in most areas. This is a good thing for your fuel supplies. It doesn't matter much for supplies as you'll need that for fort building.

The situation could be really damaging if you find it out in 1943. Fortunately it is still early in the game. Enough time to take measures...

If you want help, show us some tracker stuff maybe?

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 10/7/2012 11:52:50 AM >

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AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.” ¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivo

Oh....oh.....oh.....so basically i have the tools of a scenario 2 but the economy of scenario 1????? Was this intended? Was this WAD?

Which are the implications in the long run? I cannot grasp all the consequences....but surely i am scared now...never realized that!

....time to sleep now....tomorrow i'll think about CR's words....

You made two initial mistakes in this game:

- You chose to use someone's pet modification - You chose 2 day turns

You then made the main mistake of all first-time Japanese players - you set up your industry to optimize your attack capabilities instead of for sustaining your basic industries.

Now you have to start scaling back your war-making industries:

- Don't try to stockpile Arms and vehicles - start shutting down those factories until you reach a steady state of availability - Start shutting down the build of transport ships so that you can shut down some of your merchant shipyards - Slow down the build of Aircraft - build only those you need for a major battle and don't fight battles of attrition

You also need to generate more Supply and maximize Resources, Oil and Fuel in Japan:

- Repair HI and LI where you have conquered - Expand LI where you have excess Resources - Max out Ports where you have oil and start oil shipments as your main effort on the water - Use forward oil/fuel bases to supply your forward ships - don't send fuel from Japan

I still think that you are pretty much out-of-luck in this match because of your two initial choices, but if you do what I have suggested you will have a slightly better chance of keeping your economy alive.

Oh....oh.....oh.....so basically i have the tools of a scenario 2 but the economy of scenario 1????? Was this intended? Was this WAD?

Which are the implications in the long run? I cannot grasp all the consequences....but surely i am scared now...never realized that!

....time to sleep now....tomorrow i'll think about CR's words....

You made two initial mistakes in this game:

- You chose to use someone's pet modification - You chose 2 day turns

You then made the main mistake of all first-time Japanese players - you set up your industry to optimize your attack capabilities instead of for sustaining your basic industries.

Now you have to start scaling back your war-making industries:

- Don't try to stockpile Arms and vehicles - start shutting down those factories until you reach a steady state of availability - Start shutting down the build of transport ships so that you can shut down some of your merchant shipyards - Slow down the build of Aircraft - build only those you need for a major battle and don't fight battles of attrition

You also need to generate more Supply and maximize Resources, Oil and Fuel in Japan:

- Repair HI and LI where you have conquered - Expand LI where you have excess Resources - Max out Ports where you have oil and start oil shipments as your main effort on the water - Use forward oil/fuel bases to supply your forward ships - don't send fuel from Japan

I still think that you are pretty much out-of-luck in this match because of your two initial choices, but if you do what I have suggested you will have a slightly better chance of keeping your economy alive.

Good luck -

I think you exaggerate slightly. Greyjoy still has luck in this match, provided he takes the measures you propose. He mismanaged his economy initially for a couple of months, but the situation can be salvaged.

Secondly i think i've already saved my economy after the intial mistakes with the resources (now i have nearly 5 millions of resources stockpiled in Japan, 56 days of production worth!) and i've been monitorating the HI expenditure very closely, almost on daily basis. I've shut down half of my merch shipyards, and halted most of the xAK production (actually i'm building only those xAKs that can be converted to TKs or PBs).

I'm not, since day 1, repairing any damaged LI factory, or resource factory. Only HI factories are being repaired (those at Singa, or Changsha for example). I'm not even repairing oil wells or refineries....this is being done only to save precious supplies!

I've been pushing pretty hard on R&D thou...but i've already stopped producing all those a/c that are not badly needed (Mavis, Emilies, Oscars, Topsies, Kates...all these productions have been stopped in early may, so to save precious HI points)....

My concerns are just for the future...i need to understand if, keeping these levels (3000 HI saved every day and 23000 supplies produced daily) are enough to remain "in match" untill 1944...or, with the arrival of the 1944 toys (meaning air groups, pilots, etc) i'll be out of balance

I think you exaggerate slightly. Greyjoy still has luck in this match, provided he takes the measures you propose. He mismanaged his economy initially for a couple of months, but the situation can be salvaged.

It is quite possible to enjoy the game in a masochistic way if the Japanese economy trashes early. So, for example, in my first Japanese pbem, a scenario 1 match, I attempted to play it like I did Japan in WitP Original. My economy crashed totally in February 1942, I lost all momentum and could never capture the DEI, Singapore or Rangoon, and have been scrambling ever since. But the match is still going on and we are in July 1943, and I can still give the Allies a bloody nose every so often. Essentially I had to go onto 1945-style defence in 1942...

In my second Japanese pbem I learned from my first, played scenario 2, and things are going quite well in January 1943. I haven't conquered the Pacific, but my economy is still working. I just have to tweak it on a daily basis.

Greyjoy's other major problem in this match is that he chose a very good and experienced player as his first Allied opponent. So the opportunities to make up for the Pet Mod differences will be less because his opponent won't make rookie mistakes.

I'm not, since day 1, repairing any damaged LI factory, or resource factory. Only HI factories are being repaired (those at Singa, or Changsha for example). I'm not even repairing oil wells or refineries....this is being done only to save precious supplies!

LI creates Supply. So if you repair LI you get Supplies. You need Resources to feed LI, so repair Resources too.

You need oil and fuel to run HI, so you really ought to repair them.

If that has been changed in this mod, then you shouldn't be playing this mod...

I'm not, since day 1, repairing any damaged LI factory, or resource factory. Only HI factories are being repaired (those at Singa, or Changsha for example). I'm not even repairing oil wells or refineries....this is being done only to save precious supplies!

LI creates Supply. So if you repair LI you get Supplies. You need Resources to feed LI, so repair Resources too.

You need oil and fuel to run HI, so you really ought to repair them.

If that has been changed in this mod, then you shouldn't be playing this mod...

Light industry creates 1 supply point for every LI point. To repair a LI point you need 1000 supplies. Once repaired, that LI point will need 1000 turns to pay the investment back... it's not worth the investment imho.

I do repair only damaged HI. The rest, unfortunately, will be left damaged...

I think you exaggerate slightly. Greyjoy still has luck in this match, provided he takes the measures you propose. He mismanaged his economy initially for a couple of months, but the situation can be salvaged.

It is quite possible to enjoy the game in a masochistic way if the Japanese economy trashes early. So, for example, in my first Japanese pbem, a scenario 1 match, I attempted to play it like I did Japan in WitP Original. My economy crashed totally in February 1942, I lost all momentum and could never capture the DEI, Singapore or Rangoon, and have been scrambling ever since. But the match is still going on and we are in July 1943, and I can still give the Allies a bloody nose every so often. Essentially I had to go onto 1945-style defence in 1942...

In my second Japanese pbem I learned from my first, played scenario 2, and things are going quite well in January 1943. I haven't conquered the Pacific, but my economy is still working. I just have to tweak it on a daily basis.

Greyjoy's other major problem in this match is that he chose a very good and experienced player as his first Allied opponent. So the opportunities to make up for the Pet Mod differences will be less because his opponent won't make rookie mistakes.

So Greyjoy will learn a lot...

I think i haven't trashed my economy (even if i was very close in Jan/Feb 42).

The only way to learn and to improve is to play against a player who's better than you. My plan, as always, isn't to win. Japan cannot win the war. My goal in this match is to give as much headhaces to Qball as possible and, in the process, learn how to play Japan.

You're going for a spoiling attack that you hope will throw your opponent off balance or throw him off schedule (or that's what you should be doing now that you've transitioned over the strategic defensive).

This attack won't accomplish either. Brad will either ignore it or gleefully use it to give his ground troops and airforce some easy targets. He doesn't need New Guinea, though he may ultimately decide it's worth his time. You would be better off having him attack New Guinea than some more important objective. It's farther to Japan's heartland via New Guinea than nearly any other route. You should be praying that he'll attack that way. You should draw him that way (perhaps by exhibiting weakeness when in fact your preparing strong interior defenses.

Also, I don't think you can assume that this is a low risk operation. Any operation against a player of Q-Ball's caliber carries risks. You could well lose ships or get good units marooned.

It seems to me that you think you should be doing something and therefore you've come up with something. But I don't think this is worth it. Either work on your defenses or choose something that will throw him off schedule.

Ok Dan, i thought a lot about what you said. I think you are correct, especially when you say that i THINK i need to do something and i came up with this operation.

Also considering what we discovered about Japanese economy in this scenario, i better limit myself into finishing Luzon, conquering Balikapan, complete the china conquests and stick in building a decent defensive perimeter, thus saving as much supplies as possible.

I've been pushing pretty hard on R&D thou...but i've already stopped producing all those a/c that are not badly needed (Mavis, Emilies, Oscars, Topsies, Kates...all these productions have been stopped in early may, so to save precious HI points)....

Don't know what your pools are but the Mavis is your best set of eyes. Make sure you have some of these in stock for the lean years

Ser Greyjoy, my favorite hedge knight, I have to agree with JohnDill....don't abandon production of the Marvis and/or Emily. Even the one-eyed man in the land of the blind is King. That series of AC has very long legs with which to cast about with that good eye.

Ser Greyjoy, my favorite hedge knight, I have to agree with JohnDill....don't abandon production of the Marvis and/or Emily. Even the one-eyed man in the land of the blind is King. That series of AC has very long legs with which to cast about with that good eye.

+1

In any situation in the South or Central Pacific the Mavis and Emily will give a one day head's up that stuff is coming. All you need are 10 of each a month to stay bare bones. Still a lot with the 4 engines, but worth it.

Check out fcharton's AAR recently for ways to economize. He does it by reducing naval/merchant assets, and is banking ridiculous amounts of HI for half-way through 42. Because of your supply situation and the extra stuff available in this mod, I would consider increasing HI where you can. Mostly in the SRA and China. The only issue is that it takes supply to do that.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

Ser Greyjoy, my favorite hedge knight, I have to agree with JohnDill....don't abandon production of the Marvis and/or Emily. Even the one-eyed man in the land of the blind is King. That series of AC has very long legs with which to cast about with that good eye.

+1

In any situation in the South or Central Pacific the Mavis and Emily will give a one day head's up that stuff is coming. All you need are 10 of each a month to stay bare bones. Still a lot with the 4 engines, but worth it.

Check out fcharton's AAR recently for ways to economize. He does it by reducing naval/merchant assets, and is banking ridiculous amounts of HI for half-way through 42. Because of your supply situation and the extra stuff available in this mod, I would consider increasing HI where you can. Mostly in the SRA and China. The only issue is that it takes supply to do that.

Yes guys, thank you. Actually i stopped Mavis production for a months because i stockpiled more than 20 of them. Now that the Emilies have become available i have a factory producing 10 Mavis (the latest model) and another one producing 15 Emilies. Still don't know if it's worth to have both of them...probably not. So, for the moment, i'm keeping only the Emilies in production, while the mavis will wait... their only problem is their service rating (4), which means they will more or less always be grounded... I'm planning to boost their search abilities using some G3M3s groups...

I really cannot boost my HI at the moment Obvert (Erik, right?). It takes too much supply to repair those damaged factories and i need to start stockpiling as much supplies as possible. Probably the right thing to do would be to halt some more Naval Shipyards (so stop producing subs for example)...

Thinking about what to do with the Nicks now.... The KI-45 is a good bomber killer (armour + 20mm gun) but by mid 1943 it's completely outclassed. Also by that date We should have Franks and Georges arriving in good numbers, along with Tojo IIc ... so the KI-45 will simply become too expensive (2 engines) and too underpowered towards other IJA planes (2 Tojos IIc worth a lot more than one KI-45a imho). Now i'd have A LOT of units that could be upgraded to Nthe KI-45, but i'm refraining to do so... my fear is that once upgraded i'll be stuck with the FB path and won't be able to convert them back into regular fighters... At the moment i have 100 Nicks operating... is it enough?

Yes guys, thank you. Actually i stopped Mavis production for a months because i stockpiled more than 20 of them. Now that the Emilies have become available i have a factory producing 10 Mavis (the latest model) and another one producing 15 Emilies. Still don't know if it's worth to have both of them...probably not. So, for the moment, i'm keeping only the Emilies in production, while the mavis will wait... their only problem is their service rating (4), which means they will more or less always be grounded... I'm planning to boost their search abilities using some G3M3s groups...

I really cannot boost my HI at the moment Obvert (Erik, right?). It takes too much supply to repair those damaged factories and i need to start stockpiling as much supplies as possible. Probably the right thing to do would be to halt some more Naval Shipyards (so stop producing subs for example)...

Thinking about what to do with the Nicks now.... The KI-45 is a good bomber killer (armour + 20mm gun) but by mid 1943 it's completely outclassed. Also by that date We should have Franks and Georges arriving in good numbers, along with Tojo IIc ... so the KI-45 will simply become too expensive (2 engines) and too underpowered towards other IJA planes (2 Tojos IIc worth a lot more than one KI-45a imho). Now i'd have A LOT of units that could be upgraded to Nthe KI-45, but i'm refraining to do so... my fear is that once upgraded i'll be stuck with the FB path and won't be able to convert them back into regular fighters... At the moment i have 100 Nicks operating... is it enough?

That's about what I have, and to tell the truth, they've been only useful in a limited role. Mostly LR CAP over a base out of sweep range for the Allies, or in a layered CAP with a lot of high CAP to protect against sweeps. I've jumped him a few times, but Jocke is very careful and deliberate about his 4Es. Always en masse, always with sweeps and escort if possible. So I would keep those 100, but yes, maybe not more.

Halting some subs, even for a while, is a good move. I slowed everything for a while, halted Musashi, and took a look every few weeks to see what ships I'd re-start. This balanced my production well for a while and built pools even. Your supply will likely improve when your Chinese assets produce more and when the combat there slows. I began to get supply in 6 figures in Tokyo only in the autumn of 42. Then it just kept rising. I know it will be tighter for you, but it should still equalize after your major operations have finished and you're just digging in.

At places like Singers and Soerabaja though you could just occasionally pump up the HI by 3-5 factories. Just a little at a time. This will make a difference eventually. I have Soerabaja at 70, Batavia at 50, Singers at 130, Saigon and Georgetown at 50 each.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

Ki-45 is good because you can convert 1E army bomber groups to it and its fast enough and moderately tough. If you have lownav trained pilots you can send them in as skipbombers and the 2x 250kg SAP (it keeps the 250kgs at all alt as it is a FB) can wreck anything smaller than a heavily armored CA or Battleship. It also functions well as rear area defense from 4E. I would never convert a fighter unit to Ki-45 but its definitely better than the 1E bombers by a large margin and the fragility of IJA 2E bombers means they are pretty useless once the allies start getting halfway decent bombers. That being said as an offensive weapon its very much something you expend going in low and fast against high value targets, (shipping and 4E bases mostly.)

Check out Crufts AAR for example of what to do with the Ki-45. I think the 45-a model is the best in the stock scenarios as the bigger cannons are too inaccurate but I don't know if DBB changes cannon accuracy.

GJ - I'm still hoping to figure out a way to get those convoys to show up with extra supply and fuel at Tokyo. IMO, once the Allied steamroller gets going in earnest in 44 and beyond, you will eat up lots of supply trying to defend against it.

GJ - I'm still hoping to figure out a way to get those convoys to show up with extra supply and fuel at Tokyo. IMO, once the Allied steamroller gets going in earnest in 44 and beyond, you will eat up lots of supply trying to defend against it.

Thanks Micheal. I haven't talked to QBall about this issue yet. But i really hope i can stuck with it without any "on-going modifications". Actually, if i'm not mistaken, it just means i'm playing a scenario 1 DBB game rather than a scenario 2 DBB game... don't see it as a game-breaker issue (not at the moment at least).

Sure i'll be happier with those 2,000,000 more supplies in the bag...but Obvert did manage to achieve a much larger Empire in his scenario 1 game, so i still think it's doable (or maybe i'm just dreaming :-) )

About the KI-45... yes saros, i've read that AAR.... but in low naval anti-shipping role the KI-43 IIba and b is just as good as the Nick (same ordinance) and is much more cheaper (1 engine instead of 2).

In my plan the KI-45 (and only the "a" model) is just a bomber destroyer... however, for what i can tell, Brad will be using his 4Es in mass (he's been massing them since the game start) and with a strong fighter support (sweeps + escort)... and the KI-45 will be very soon too outclassed to be used in front lines. I'll probably keep it on CAP in distant bases only (so out of his P-38 range)....and so the choice not to upgrade any other fighter sentai to FB. I'll live with these 100 Nicks (plus those dedicated FB groups that will arrive in nearby future).

I'm still keeping an eye on those 1E bomber groups. Using them as trainers or ASW for the moment... i'll keep them as they are untill the games develops a bit and see what Q-Ball will do with his future offensives

Obvert... i don't like the idea of enlarging too much the HI plants... Maybe a bit at Shangai and HK (where we don't have that many supply problems) but for sure not at Singa or Java...i've already spent 75,000 supplies to repair the 50 HI factories at Singa and 25 (out of 50) repair shipyard...and this created a shortage of supplies in Malaya that was difficultly solved. I better do these things very slowly... better safe than sorry, right? :-)

Like Olorin said earlier, i have to decide which will be my main area of investment. I decided that air power is the key, and so i'll devote more efforts in R&D and air production rather than building warships or expanding further my pacific perimeter.

The goals remain the same: - have the KI-44 IIc by semptember 43 - Have the KI-84 a by july 1943 - Have the N1K1 by Mar 43

To achive the latter two, iìm boosting the R&D of Ha-45 engine. The idea is to start producing 250 Ha-45 engines/monthly by 11/42, so that by 1/43 i'll be able to benefit from the engine bonus

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Despite my continual sarcasm against JFB who assume they are entitled to non-stop , non historical advantage, I see the situation that you are in as a perfect reconstruction of the dilemna that the japanese empire found itself in.

You have the advantage of knowing history and other gamers experience which helps you to maximise return from the Oil & Resources available in the game.

Look at the IRL japanese economic situation, despite capturing some of the worlds great resource areas they struggled to keep Avgas in their planes and rice in their soldiers mouths.

You are capable of tweaking your ship production and prioritise research into motors and airframes.

The AFB gets nothing, has to fight an ahistorical war against a pumped up japanese OOB with historical forces and suffer withdrawals regardless of the war situation in the Pacific.

I would have thought that those who played the empire would take pride in fighting against these odds as well as against the Allies.

Despite my continual sarcasm against JFB who assume they are entitled to non-stop , non historical advantage, I see the situation that you are in as a perfect reconstruction of the dilemna that the japanese empire found itself in.

You have the advantage of knowing history and other gamers experience which helps you to maximise return from the Oil & Resources available in the game.

Look at the IRL japanese economic situation, despite capturing some of the worlds great resource areas they struggled to keep Avgas in their planes and rice in their soldiers mouths.

You are capable of tweaking your ship production and prioritise research into motors and airframes.

The AFB gets nothing, has to fight an ahistorical war against a pumped up japanese OOB with historical forces and suffer withdrawals regardless of the war situation in the Pacific.

I would have thought that those who played the empire would take pride in fighting against these odds as well as against the Allies.

uhm... sorry mate but i don't understand (due to language barrier that often doesn't let me get irony) if you're critizing or simply stating.

However, yes, i do like this challenge...and i can tell you that it IS a challenge. A different one than playing the allies, but a challenge all the same! It's a good thing to play both sides cause you understands how every side has its weaknesses and its strenghts....and you learn how to respect your opponent's successes (no matter if he's japanese or allied), knowing that he may have good toys at hand, but also that those same toys weren't that lethal when at your disposal....and so on...

Playing japanese for me it's like having suddenly discovered that i can have sex with a man and having exactly the same fun as i have with women... once you play "both sides" you can taste the best of both worlds

Playing japanese for me it's like having suddenly discovered that i can have sex with a man and having exactly the same fun as i have with women... once you play "both sides" you can taste the best of both worlds

Now hold on a second. You just said that because CR has gone missing and you don't think you can be put in front of the Kangaroo Court. Look, it's all good with me but if you have any photos like the penguin photo I urge you to only post when sober.

I would have thought that those who played the empire would take pride in fighting against these odds as well as against the Allies.

Not everyone wants to play an unbalanced game they are doomed to lose in the end. Even with significant "non-stop, non historical" help, Japan will still lose pretty badly. If people want to even things out, why make fun of them? And before you say 'well then play a different game' I will point out that it is relatively easy (and fun) to mod this game to something more equal :)

Playing japanese for me it's like having suddenly discovered that i can have sex with a man and having exactly the same fun as i have with women... once you play "both sides" you can taste the best of both worlds

Playing japanese for me it's like having suddenly discovered that i can have sex with a man and having exactly the same fun as i have with women... once you play "both sides" you can taste the best of both worlds

Pics or it didnt happen.

(DONT DARE TO POST SOME)

Yes - please refrain from any impulse to post below-the-neck pics of hairy humans of either female or male persuasion. It's bad enough for us that the TV keeps doing "Planet of the Apes" re-runs.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth