I have been brought up in America as an agnostic (Believes that man is
too stupid to know which is the -right- religion) and recently
converted to Islam.

There is an Egyptian Muslim woman that I want to marry. She is
divorced, and not living with her parents. I asked her for information
to contact her parents, so after a while she gave me her parent's email
address. Following tradition, I sent her father an email asking for his
daughter's hand in marriage. I told him about myself and asked very
politely.

Several days passed and I got no reply.

So, I asked her again and she gave me their phone number. I called, and
introduced myself, and her mother hung up on me, saying she knew nobody
by that name!

The parents then lied to their daughter about me calling them. They said they never even heard of me.

I found out from AIM (Aol Instant Messenger) That they had blocked me.

I proposed to her formally, thinking that it was the last thing I can
do, and she said she didn't know if any Imam would marry us if her
parents would not give permission.

They keep trying to introduce her to other men, but she always says no
because her last 'arranged' marriage ended so badly. So, if her parents
want her married so badly, wouldn't they at least consider me?

It's all because I am white. Aren't there words in the Quran that relate, "There are no races in Islam!"?

Now that I've explained my problem... I would like any advice or help
from brothers and sisters here. Can a divorced woman get married
without her parents permission? If the parents will not respond to the
man wanting to marry their daughter, does that mean they don't care
(They didn't even tell me 'no', they just didn't talk to me)? Is there
any way to win them over?

Replies: Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 08 June 2005 at 7:37pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

Congratulations on accepting Islam as your way of life, alhamdulillah. I remember your first few inputs a couple of months ago, and I am pleased to know that you have entered into the folds of Islam.

In Islam, a woman must take permission of her father to get married if she is a maiden (ie a virgin). One who is a divorcee, can choose and marry by her own will, even without the permission of her parents.

What I mean is, in case of the lady you propose to marry, if you go ahead and complete the formalities, the marriage is valid as per islamic principles.

The consent of parnets is good for keeping the family ties, and upholding their wishes, as there is great reward in doing so, but technically there is no hitch in your marriage with her, even if you do not receive a consent.

She should have a wali, and this role can be fulfilled by the Imam of the mosque, where you decide to marry. Perhaps you would want to contact an Imam, to know all the details of the legal proceedings in this matter.

Wish you all the best and a happy future in your marriage insha allah.

Nausheen,i would like to say that my conviction was same as yours,but then i came a scholar who told me that whichever way,the lady must seek permission from the father/brother,uncle or any male in that line,whether she is a virgin or not.

So its better for our brother here to find out more from the imam as you said before he does anything.What i mean is that theres ikhtilaf concerning the consent of the non-virgin woman in regards to marriage.

peace

Aus

Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 09 June 2005 at 12:12am

Blimey - doesn't a woman EVER get to help determine her own future? Doesn't she EVER get a say?

Mind you, if I were him, I might start having some doubts just because women often turn into their own mothers.

However, namesdon'tmatter - I wish you luck. You are trying to do the right thing and they are not.

DO the parent live in the US as well, or are they in Egypt? I reckon you should take Nausheen's advice.

Kim...

Posted By: Ali Zaki
Date Posted: 09 June 2005 at 10:57am

Salam alakum to the brother (namesdontmatter),

I am also a revert (convert), and I wanted to give you an answer and a general comment to your question.

FIRST- In matter of Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence), it is very important to NOT depend on the advice of fellow Muslims (even if they are knowledgable. These matter require a specialist (i.e. a qualified Alim)

There are two major schools of Islamic jurisprudence, Sunni and Shia. One this issues (i.e. permanent marriage), there is not alot of disagreement. My Sunni brothers (and sisters) can correct me if I'm incorrect. Here is the Fatwa (ruling) of Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, a respected Islamic Scholar (and now world famous, since the Iraq invastion) on this issue from his website. Here is the direct link to this section; http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/main/index.php?page=3&lang=ara&part=1 - http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/main/index.php?page=3&la ng=ara&part=1

HERE IS THE RELEVANT FATWA

"2386. In the following situations, it will not be necessary for a woman to seek the permission of her father or paternal grandfather, before getting married:

If she is not a virgin.

If she is a virgin, but her father or paternal grandfather refuse to grant permission to her for marrying a man who is compatible to her in the eyes of Shariah, as well as custom.

If the father and the grandfather are not in any way willing to participate in the marriage.

If they are not in a capacity to give their consent, like in the case of mental illness etc.

If it is not possible to obtain their permission because of their absence, or such other reasons, and the woman is eager to get married urgently. "

Marriage is made easy in Islam, and is a mercy from Allah (s.w.a) for us.

Salam

-------------"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)

Posted By: Meedo
Date Posted: 13 July 2005 at 12:02pm

salam

brother ,

Inshallah you proceed with the marriage in The masjid . Islam isnt a religion of hardship. The Opinion that she can marry by her self with a representative of the Muslim community as her Wali ( Guardian) Is correct inshallah , i have heared it before. Just make the marriage in Public and commit to her inshallah.

May Allah grand you Happiness togeather .

salam aleikum

-------------Meedo

Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 7:01pm

Salam,

Like Nausheen sugestion becasue she is widow, there is nothing debatable, so go for it. And congratulations, may Allah give you happiness and bless your marriage.

-------------Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"

Posted By: Henna
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 7:20am

Brother namesdontmatter, If the sister's family is near to you, maybe you can go to meet them. You can introduce yourself and you can talk to them.

Sometimes talking face to face can solve some communication problems.

Our religion doesn't forbid a woman marry without her father's
permission however if you and sister keep try to communicate with her
parents and try to get permission it would be wonderfull inshallah:)