UNLESS they're willing to pay for people to do the characters right, they're going to continue reaping mediocre film after mediocre film.

What's been really good so far? Spider-Man (the current Sony live-action film series). That's about it.

What's been REALLY good as far as Marvel animated series are concerned? NOTHING.

Marvel has always had the tendency to go on the cheap and let the lowest bidder adapt its characters for television -- and it shows.

The shows are designed horribly. Why they go for literal character designs when time after time has shown that you just can't animate realistic designs well for TV boggles the mind. There's no budget for this, and frankly most animation fans DON'T want to see hyper-realistic designs. They look awful -- especially when they're not animated well.

I'm betting that as the week goes on you're going to see more reviews and impressions like the one I had.

I've already checked out AICN and they pretty much say the same thing I did about the character designs and animation... THEY'RE LOUSY.

Whereas as the AICN guys differ with me on the Ultimate line-up (I hate the cynicsm of the Ultimate line and the wholesale bastardization of the Marvel characters by the Quesadites), they'd agree with me that this DVD probably should have been done as a straight-up Avengers adaptation INSTEAD of the halfway, half-assed middle-of-the-road approach between the Ultimate title and the original Avengers comic (which Marvel isn't even doing anymore).

Face it, Marvel just hasn't gotten it in their heads that they need to hire somebody like Bruce Timm and trust them to do justice to their characters. The current editors and most Marvel writers sure don't have an idea who the Marvel characters are!

Spidey fans got very lucky that the character ended up with Sam Raimi even if the latest rumblings on the third Spidey movie are a bit nervous. X-Men and pretty much every other Marvel "film franchise" has crashed and burned.

If Marvel keeps churning out DVDs like "Ultimate Avengers" there's no question those will head straight to the $5.50 bargain bins at Wal-Mart...

************************************

Another thing you won't hear from most animation sites.

There some unprofessional online snipping at BT's feet some time back by one of the jokers who worked on "Ultimate Avengers."

Considering that ass was proclaiming the new Marvel animated DVDs to be superior to BTAS let alone JLU and Superman: TAS, I'd say early indications are that "Ultimate Avengers" is NOT getting good reviews.

ShyViolet wrote:I think the Dick Tracy film did a good job of balancing the two aspects (brooding Elfman score, bright, cartoony designs, simple/sweet story at heart)

Brooding Elfman score? Do you have the OST CD, Vi? It's actually one of the more "triumphant" and upbeat scores for any of these types of movies, with some overblown Gershwin thrown in for good measure!

Newsarama gave it a positive review (calling it "pretty close to great"). Coming Soon was also positive, though less enthusiastic. IGN gave it a 7/10. ToonZone was very positive, saying it was far better than one could expect, with action that bettered most live action films. CHUD gave it an 8/10. Those are far from poor reviews. And they all actually SAW the movie.

These are all well-known sites, most with better reps than AICN. So let's not pretend that I'm the only one who liked it, eh?

I've been a huge Marvel fan ever since I saw the X-Men series pilot as a kid (X-Men's first season overall is still my all time favorite cartoon series). I've seen every one of their films since Blade and loved them all (especially Hulk and The Punisher) so naturally I can't wait to see Ultimate Avengers. GeorgeC should remember that Marvel is a BUSINESS first and foremost so of course they're going to do whatever it takes to make money. If something works, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't go with it. Look at their movies for instance. Blade made money, so they tried an X-Men film to see if it was a fluke or not. It turned out not to be so Marvel movies came out of the woodwork and most of them have been very successful (Elektra being the only non-debateable exception). Sure the reviewers haven't always been kind, but the best indicator of a film's popularity is the box office and by that measure Marvel is one of the most popular film companies in history, whether you like it or not. So there.

Okay, so I just watched Ultimate Avengers (SPOILER ALERT!) and I have to say that even though they didn't completely follow the comics (no mention of Tony Stark's alcoholism for instance) it was still a good movie that met my expectations. I thought it was interesting that they left Bruce Banner as a loose end that will hopefully be tied up in the sequel coming out in june. I haven't read the comics in awhile, so I suppose I'll reread the comics, then watch the movie again.

Brooding Elfman score? Do you have the OST CD, Vi? It's actually one of the more "triumphant" and upbeat scores for any of these types of movies, with some overblown Gershwin thrown in for good measure!

Do you mean the Dick Tracy theme? I get your point, there is definite triumphant feeling there (it fits the hero) but at the same time there seemed to me to be a darker feeling too. Some parts reminded me of the Batman '89 theme. With all those ghastly-looking villains there HAD to be some kind of dark undercurrent. Also remember the scene in the gearhouse (or whatever that was) when Tracy was facing off against Big Boy and The Blank? That theme was pretty dark, I felt.

Dick Tracy was probably the first movie I was ever truly "obsessed" with (there have been many! ) I know that movie by heart many times over....
Plus I love the Madonna songs too. I had two Breathless Mahoney dolls--one tiny action figure and one Barbie-size (about six inches).

"It is written among the limitless constellations of the celestial heavens, and in the depths of the emerald seas....the world which we see is an outward and visible dream of an inward and invisible reality."

And although Marvel is only trying to cash in on Warner's BatMatrix, and Madhouse thinks they're on a roll--
Over on the anime groups, notions of why "Gotham Knight" doesn't quite seem to be as Batman as the comics prompted discussions about why the Japanese...don't...really...seem to understand the whole costumed-superhero thing as we take for granted over here. 0_o??

Oh, they have heroes, and even some ones with super powers...
But manga and anime culture doesn't really seem to understand WHY Clark Kent needs blue tights and truth-and-justice speeches to fight bad guys, and just treats it as a symbol of western American iconography--
Probably due to the different evolutions of all-genre manga and superhero-only American comics, but images of Superman and Wonder Woman seem to be treated in reference to the US the same way we treat images of geishas and sumo wrestlers in Japan:
Ie., not particularly representative of the country, but good for a "silly" stereotype-icon laugh if you don't happen to know too much about the culture over there.

What makes you think this is the first time Japanese companies have dealt with American superheroes?

A lot of the episodes of Batman and Superman in 1990s were animated overseas at Japanese companies. Japanese companies or their Asian continental partners animated Mask of the Phantasm and Return of the Joker, too. They've had a long relationship with American companies and collaborated on many projects.

It's not quite fair to say Japanese haven't done "American-style" superheroes. There are a number of Japanese shows off the top of my head that I can think of that had superhero themes: Moldiver, which was a parody of superhero shows; and Gatchaman, the most famous superhero-type show produced in Japan. A fair number of people in the States are fans of that show under its American names, Battle of the Planets and G-Force. This isn't even getting into the Sentai Ranger shows which have made it over to the US and exported worldwide as Power Rangers!

(I own the ADV Films release of the original, unedited Gatchaman myself.)

I don't know what people expect. I think half the negative reaction to Batman: Gotham Knight was that it wasn't a continuation of the 1990s Batman animated series and that they DARED to use different character designs. (This is just the comic book geek side of things.

(Anime fans were probably disdainful of the fact that Americans "forced" Japanese companies to work on an American-supervised project! There is, at times, a crazy reverse-racism at work in anime circles.)

That was never the point of the project. It was a tie-in to the Nolan-verse (which I don't care for -- I HATE all the live-action Batman films made in the past 20 years) and scripted by a bunch of different writers. It was supposed to be different and experimental. Frankly, I thought it was a lot better than Superman: Doomsday, The Animatrix, and I felt more satisfied after watching it than even The New Frontier!

Domestic anime fans are hardly ever happy about anything. So many of the brats want stuff for free and are disdainful of anything that doesn't conform to their little fantasy world. Try talking sense to them and it goes out their rear...!

Not true, George. I'm happy that Funimation got One Piece, I'm happy that there's been a movement towards making complete series affordable and I'm happy (most of the time) with the job Bandai does on their dubs.

You haven't been around anime fandom as long as I have and haven't seen what's happened since it became very easy to put everything on the Internet.

There is a whole generation of people who feel entitled to get everything for free and don't care if they violate copyright law. It's too easy to steal and hardly anybody gets penalized for it.

Companies here and in Japan are struggling to survive in large part because of the fact that it's become so easy to digitally bootleg everything. Granted, the Japanese companies don't help themselves and the domestic licensors by enforcing 6-month delays before complete shows get released on video outside of Japan, but in many cases full episodes of shows are up and running on the Net within hours after they're broadcast on Japanese TV!

I really had nothing against people downloading episodes of shows that weren't licensed for the US until recently. It's just become very apparent most people are NOT willing to pay for the domestically-licensed shows on DVD even if they're released at reasonable prices in sets which are generally much cheaper than buying individual DVD releases.

I've seen people cheer the demise of certain companies that licensed anime for the US market. True, they weren't all great companies and didn't necessarily have the greatest business aptitude and all the shows people wanted to buy, but the sheer nastiness of a lot of fans at the downfall of certain long-term companies really took me and a lot of the other older and more mature fans by surprise.

It's a really sad scene and a good example of people eating their own...

I'm well aware that Stan wasn't suing himself, guys... I just think it's nearly hilarious (until THE LAWYERS come in!) that a company named after you that's irrelevant can get away with such a frivolous suit.

There's no question Stan was naive and trusted a crook. It's been a big problem his entire adult life...!

It's sad that people think since he's associated with Marvel that he actually owns any of the characters. He doesn't!

Since he was an employee of the company and lived in mortal fear of being fired (he was a Depression-era kid), he never challenged his boss for a lot of those years (his inlaw by marriage) for ownership rights nor did he really fight for a lot of his co-workers for similar reasons, too.

What he gets paid for what he does now is really kind of a pittance compared to what Marvel has made off of the most popular characters he co-created... He did accept work-for-hire, though.