The Joshua and Jason Uber Thread!

USFS bios are being updated for this season and Josh is now listed as one of his own choreographers! I wonder if this means he was responsible for most of the choreography in his new SP? If so I'm very impressed! That's so awesome he helps choreograph at such a young age...maybe he's found his post-competitive career!

I would liken Josh's skating to Abbott's much more so than Lysacek. When Evan was Josh's age, he skated like a robot, no emotion, no finesse, no flow, and Lysacek never became an artist on the ice. Farris is already much more mature than Evan in terms of presentation. I would never compare the two.

As for the choreo thing, I remember reading in an article somewhere that Josh helped Damon choreo Clair de Lune, so it wouldn't surprise me if Josh helped with Bach too.

I agree. Josh/Jeremy is a much closer comparison.

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I agree, as well.
We'll have to see, of course, what direction Josh goes in the future.

Ironically, I wished for years for Jeremy to skate to Bach. Still do. I think Jeremy's purity of style would fit the music beautifully.
All the more interesting to see Joshua going in that direction. The fact that there are no cuts and the music is for unaccompanied cello makes his task quite difficult, but all the more admirable. To make big impact he'll have to perfectly time his spins, time everything to a fraction of a second, which is so hard in competition. Wish him all the luck.

Didn't Jason say he's actually just over 5'6" though, even though he's listed as 5'7"? Josh could be 5'8" and like a half and just not be one to round up his height. In some pictures he just looks maybe 2 inches taller than Jason, plus his hair gives him a bit of a lift. I would have guessed he was more 5'9"-5'10" but 5'8"+ is possible, especially because a lot of other skaters probably round up their heights. His build also adds to the illusion of being taller, like compared to someone like Max Aaron, listed as 5'7", standing side by side they are probably similar in height, but Max has very short, stocky legs while Josh's are long and thin, plus Josh has a slight build anyways, which can give the illusion of being taller. Think about Christina Gao and Caroline Zhang, they are both listed as 5'5", but Christina looks wayy taller because she's thin and long limbed. Idk. Maybe his height will be updated later but I do think it's possible he's just being honest while other's are embellishing.

I think it's awesome he helps with the choreography, and that may have been why his Claire De Lune was so stunning and suited him so well last season, he knows his strengths and how to show them off. I am really excited about the new SP, it was rough around the edges in Vail, but give it a month or two and I think it could be gorgeous and rival Claire De Lune. Definitely give Josh props for selecting such a mature and difficult piece!

I would liken Josh's skating to Abbott's much more so than Lysacek. When Evan was Josh's age, he skated like a robot, no emotion, no finesse, no flow, and Lysacek never became an artist on the ice. Farris is already much more mature than Evan in terms of presentation. I would never compare the two.

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I agree that I would not compare Josh's skating to Evan's at all. But these two can be compared in terms of leg length.

Looking at Josh, I see some elements of his movement style as being somewhat similar to Johnny Weir's smooth elegance. I actually don't see a lot of Jeremy in Josh's skating. I think Jeremy has a very unique way of moving that doesn't really remind me of anyone else. If pressed, the closest skaters that come to mind are Ryan Jahnke and Matt Savoie, as somewhat similar to Jeremy in terms of their sensitivity to music and movement, as well as their creativity, intelligence and emotional depth (Ryan J often had trouble with his 3-axel but he continually worked hard at conquering that jump).

Looking at Jason Brown, I only see Jason Brown rockin' Rohene's fab choreo.

It's wonderful to see how much Josh is developing as an artist, which if he hadn't left Tom Z, I doubt would have happened in quite the same way. Case in point: I was looking at early Ryan Bradley clips and realized that Ryan B displayed much more elegance at age 16, than he ever did later in his career. I think if Ryan B had switched to another coach at around 17 or 18 who could have brought out more of his latent elegance and the artistry that went undeveloped in favor of Z's focus on jumps, Ryan B's career might have reached a higher plane a lot sooner.

ETA: Josh's programs last season (especially Clair de Lune) definitely remind me of the smooth elegant quality of Johnny Weir's skating. Josh's sp this season clearly contains moves reminiscent of (and likely inspired by) what Jeremy wrought last season with Muse Redemption.

Josh reminds me of Robin Cousins, and Matt Savoie, more than Johnny, Evan, or Jeremy. But his style is unique too. It is amazing how long his legs are though, especially if he really just is a petite 5'8". I think an icenetwork article has even made the comparison to Robin Cousins before.

Which raises the question: why aren't other skaters flocking to Rohene for fab choreo? ...

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I wonder how many people are aware that Rohene choreographs for Jason and/ or that Rohene himself is a fabulous skater who for one reason and another never made it in the competitive ranks. Surely the word is getting out by word-of-mouth, and with the recent IN feature on Rohene.

Which raises the question: why aren't other skaters flocking to Rohene for fab choreo? Could it be because very few skaters are able to do that kind of choreo, do you think?

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I've wondered that myself, and I wonder how much Jason's personality has to do with it. Rohene makes fabulous choreography, yes, but it suits Jason down to the ground, and you can see he genuinely loves skating it. I can't imagine some of the other skaters doing so well with it - not because they're not good enough to skate it, but because their personality is just not suited to it.

It's hard to tell, because Rohene doesn't seem to choreograph for many skaters...he seems to enjoy challenges that are unusual, though. For example, Prince would have been the LAST thing on my mind when contemplating music for Jason.

I also wonder if it's Rohene's choice to only choreo for certain skaters. He still has his own professional career, after all, tours and shows.

I wonder how many people are aware that Rohene choreographs for Jason and/ or that Rohene himself is a fabulous skater who for one reason and another never made it in the competitive ranks. Surely the word is getting out by word-of-mouth, and with the recent IN feature on Rohene.

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As a match made it heaven, could it be simply that Jason is an out of this world skater and rock-iteer-in-training, while Rohene is one madly gifted rock-it scientist?

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Every season I get reminded that there's still so much more to learn about skating; I have to confess that I didn't know anything about Rohene until I became a fan of Jason's. I suspect that after this season - and especially once Jason starts getting about as an international Senior - Rohene may be in much more demand.

I don't think there's any doubt that Jason is an out-of-this-world skater, and I certainly think Rohene has a talent for bringing out the best in him.

ITA there is definitely something special about how Rohene's choreo matches Jason's personality and enhances/ highlights Jason's unique movement style.

The IN feature on Rohene included mention of the fact that Rohene works on choreography with the skaters in the professional cruise shows that he has been touring with. Obviously his schedule is pretty demanding right now re his touring and working with Jason, and probably with other skaters at his home rink. Rohene certainly looks to have a bright future in professional shows, as well as in the ranks of up-and-coming young choreographers.

As for Josh, yes he too has his own unique qualities that seemingly were unleashed when he found new coaches. Josh seems to be soaking up inspiration and knowledge and opportunities like a sponge. I think he is still in the process of experimenting and finding his own identity/ personality on the ice.

Yes, comparisons are very subjective. I think that because Josh is going through a process of experimentation and finding himself on the ice, that may be why people are seeing him as reminiscent of various skaters. I don't think Josh is exactly like any other skater, but in his different programs/ choreo, some movements call to mind qualities of a few other skaters. Josh does have long legs in a similar body build way to Evan, Robin C, and even Sasha Abt, altho' Abt and Evan, and Robin are apparently taller than Josh overall. Outside of both having long legs, I don't really see Robin C's movement style in Josh's skating. And I definitely agree with others that there is nothing of Evan's mode of skating in the way Josh moves. Josh has much more style, expressiveness and artistic potential than Evan has exhibited on the ice, IMO.

As for Josh, yes he too has his own unique qualities that seemingly were unleashed when he found new coaches. Josh seems to be soaking up inspiration and knowledge and opportunities like a sponge. I think he is still in the process of experimenting and finding his own identity/ personality on the ice.

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Agreed with this. I can't wait to see the finished product, because the experimental stage is still wonderful.

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First JGP entries are out, and Jason is going to Courcheval again! (with Harrison Choate (sp?))

^^ Yes, I thought it was a good idea for the IN article to be posted here too.

Great to see that Josh and Jason are friendly rivals and I hope they are able to maintain their friendship, respect and camaraderie. Although Evan/Johnny (brought up in the article) were never close friends, they too respected each other as fellow skaters, and admired each other's talents when they skated against each other as juniors and early in their senior careers. It was largely outside forces that created rifts and faux enmity between Evan and Johnny, IMHO.

Very cute re Josh's and Jason's responses to being asked what advice they had for each other for improvement. Love the fact that Josh gave Jason some tips on mastering the 3-axel, and that Jason told Josh he practiced becoming more flexible from watching Josh when they were both younger. Looks like these two are partly as good as they are because they have had this friendly rivalry since the age of 10 and have pushed each other in different ways as a result of having great respect for each other's talent.

^^ It's my impression that Jason was likely attempting to perform a 3-axel in his sp, when he kind of held back too long going into the jump, didn't get enough height and ended up doing only a single axel.

Yes, he should make a point of trying to go for 3-axel, especially early in the season, so that he at least gets it out there (and maybe can dust off the jitters, and give himself a chance to master it in competition). I wonder where Jason's consistency level is with it? Josh tried to give him some tips -- hope Jason is able to work things out in training and start executing that jump. It is such a balance between height and rhythm and confidence. Also, the need to not lose rhythm and consistency on other jumps.

I love this Liebestraum program for Jason! (His sp is very good too, but the sp appears to need a bit more attention to some sections where Jason seems to lose a bit of control when transitioning from movement to movement).

It's so wonderful to see Jason perfoming to Liebestraum (makes up for Johnny not going forward with it during 2005 - 2006). I really enjoy seeing Jason using color with his costuming too (which breaks up the unrelieved black that so many men are wearing these days). This Liebestraum program already has such wonderful nuances -- it can only get better and better throughout the season. It seems that Jason has packed the last half of his program with jumps, but the layout overall appears to be well-paced and designed to accumulate the necessary points, especially if Jason is still not comfortable with performing the 3-axel. Obviously tho' Jason would be winning more comps with a successful 3-axel to combine with his already out-sized musicality, style and artistic expression. JB is such a delight to watch. Having viewed the talented but juniorish-looking winner (China's Boyang Jin) who landed difficult jumps to get the win, it is clear that Jason's overall talent is at a higher level. The protocols also show Jason scoring higher in all categories except TES. I think Jason deserved to be in second over Riyo Hino of Japan after the sp too, altho' Hino was placed ahead of JB there.

Next step is Jason trying to incorporate the more difficult jump revolutions into his repertoire.

ETA:
One report I read stated that JB was marked down for "underrotating 3 of his triples." Attention needs to be paid to that fast -- JB can't afford to lose points that way. Which of his triples and were they clearly underrotated?

He was actually called UR on four jumps - the 3Lo, 3S, and the two toeloops (3T and 2T) of his three-jump combo. I didn't notice immediately (although I twigged the 3S didn't look quite right) but that doesn't mean anything. The tech panel at Courchevel were super harsh on everybody. It's not a normal problem for him I don't think.

Combined with the edge calls on both Lutzes...

All that said, I do love his Liebestraume. His beautiful skating just makes it . I literally zone out of everything else watching it.

His costumes this season are one extreme to the other in the effort to present him as a more "mature" skater. (I can't remember who said that they were trying to do that - Jason, Rohene or Kori. I think it was Jason.) The Prince one is hideous. I cannot believe that his costumer, who he's worked with since he was little, could produce something that in one smooth movement completely destroys his lines and figure and makes him look like "George Washington". But the same costumer has produced that beautiful pale blue shirt, with my favourite high-collar, v-neck combo. THAT makes him look much older and more mature IMO.

(Maybe they decided, well, pale blue with flappy arm worked for Josh last year...?)

I have no idea what went wrong for Jason in Courchevel but the errors in the SP were very uncharacteristic. I would not be at all surprised to see the 3A attempted in Slovenia.

Oh, thanks for your input, misskarne. JB did appear to be attempting a 3-axel in his sp at Glacier Falls, but it turned into a single axel. I actually love those old-style gorgeous single delayed axel jumps that were so high and effortless. Of course, when you intend to do a 3-axel and it doesn't happen, it doesn't look pretty. I suppose they call those kind "waxels."

Anyways, I understand what you mean by JB's sp costume, but I think it is an homage to the rock Prince. I like the edginess of that program, and the costume is okay as long as it isn't weighing JB down. Perhaps they can rethink and make some slight changes to enhance the look and fit of that costume. They might want to take a look (or another look) at some of Prince's designs (ha ha, an image just came to mind of Prince's chest hair ) -- but maybe there is something else that Prince wore/wears that they could be inspired by that would look less heavy on JB, and actually add to and not detract from the beauty and cool edginess of JB's performance.

I too love the sleek refined quality of the fp top, and the light blue color is a gem as well. (At Courcheval, the color of JB's top matched the cloud color backdrop against one wall). You are so right misskarne that his fp costume makes JB look more mature. But in comparison to some of the juniors he's skating against these days, JB already looks and skates more mature, and he obviously is more mature.

Perhaps JB could streamline his sp costume a bit by losing the jacket and overly ruffly shirt, and wearing a sleeker-styled red shirt or purple shirt with tighter-fitting black pants that also still have give for all the athletic moves. I do like the studs down the side of his pants. Just some ideas ...

I took another look at JB's Courcheval sp. On third look, I think the style and cut of the vest (not jacket) he wears is pretty cool. Maybe a more colorful top underneath the vest would break up the drabness of the black (especially since the maroon-colored vest is not bright at all).

Jason's blog was wonderful! He seems so down-to-earth and nice. I'm so pleased that he seemed really positive about the competition. A lot of skaters would get really down about it, but I like that he says he's learned some lessons. at the chocolate brownie thing. Proving he's only human.

Loving the photos and of course will always adore pipsqueak!Jason and tiny!Josh. I wonder how many times pipsqeak!Jason got mistaken for a girl? It's not hard to see how that would happen. Love the tree pic. Jason does love that grey t-shirt.

I took another look at JB's Courcheval sp. On third look, I think the style and cut of the vest (not jacket) he wears is pretty cool. Maybe a more colorful top underneath the vest would break up the drabness of the black (especially since the maroon-colored vest is not bright at all).

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I really don't like the vest. I mean, the colour is okay, even the pattern, but it's too long and the asymmetrical bit doesn't work, because it makes Jason's torso look longer than it is. Jason's body is already quite proportioned, he doesn't have really long legs, so to make his torso look longer (and take away the visible shape, too, making it look straight up and down) is really not flattering on him.

I would probably go for the vest, even the uneven bottom, if it was shorter. That could be a better look.

I don't think Courchevel videos are in sync. And the more musical a skater, the more difference it makes. With Jason, it really bugs me, and I will wait for a competition video that is synched to form an opinion about his LP.
About the short:
It feels like a "grow into" kind of program. It requires not only an attitude, but a certain sensuality and projection. It is the first of Jason's programs where I imagine Rohene more than Jason, though I like the choreography a great deal. Jason has lots of charisma and might grow into his material, or slightly reimagine it to be projecting himself. But the costume, IMO, has to go. It is also "too big" at this point; and the combination of required "in your face" attitude and elaborate costume somewhat drown the treasure that is Jason Brown. I hope his team adjusts a bit.

I don't think Courchevel videos are in sync. And the more musical a skater, the more difference it makes. With Jason, it really bugs me, and I will wait for a competition video that is synched to form an opinion about his LP.

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I did wonder about that. I hope that's all it was. You're right, with Jason's level of musicality, it can be quite jarring.

About the short:
It feels like a "grow into" kind of program. It requires not only an attitude, but a certain sensuality and projection. It is the first of Jason's programs where I imagine Rohene more than Jason, though I like the choreography a great deal. Jason has lots of charisma and might grow into his material, or slightly reimagine it to be projecting himself. But the costume, IMO, has to go. It is also "too big" at this point; and the combination of required "in your face" attitude and elaborate costume somewhat drown the treasure that is Jason Brown. I hope his team adjusts a bit.

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I think you're probably right - give this a few more outings and it will become much better. I noticed (on the theme of sensuality) that the hip-roll mentioned in the Josh/Jason interview and spotted at Glacier Falls was toned right down, almost to the point of no longer being there by Courchevel. I'm not quite sure if that was a deliberate decision or a symptom of his visible unsettledness.

I actually do love the skating, the little details such as the flicking hand in the opening crossover sequence. I still don't like the music and I think most people agree that the costume has to go. If he can plug into the attitude he needs to really pull this off, it will be awesome.

There's quite a few weeks until Turkey, I'm sure they can regroup and I'm sure they've been studying what went wrong in Courchevel. Here's hoping we see an even more awesome than usual Jason in Turkey

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And speaking of 2nd assignments, Joshua has received his - Slovenia. With Han Yan and Boyang Jin. Well, I guess the idea of keeping Jason, Josh and Han apart didn't quite work...