Originally posted by popsmayhem
An article pointing out a few of
the lies the media has been making
up and feeding to people keeping
this story so filled with BS and people
are point to what the media has said
as *evidence* against zimmerman
when this is not evidence of anything
but a media spin making zimmerman
sound already guilty based on BS.

Originally posted by rom12345
The only factors about this case that are relevant on a societal level are the mechanisms that would polarize people to passionately.
Why the media, politicians and talk show host would ride this for all it worth.
A truly disgusting expose of society rubbernecking at tragedy.

so the death of a young man is Irrelevant?

It is relevant, but so it a car accident. It is not necessary to gawk with macabre delight, and impose fetish on it.

Originally posted by cdesigns
This is for you who say Zimmerman didnt have any injuries, WHY the police officer is looking behind his head? that particular granny video might not
show his injury but the police is clearly looking at something behind his head. The injuries were reported on the police report and on the EMT
records.

DEAL WITH IT

(1) It's quite a jump of illogic to assume that because a police officer is looking behind Zimmerman's head to assuming there is an injury there.
If I told you I had a gold bar in my briefcase and you looked, your looking would not be proof that there was a gold bar there. In fact to me it
looks like the police officer is shaking his head "no" after looking.

This does not prove or disprove anything, what would be conclusive is a medical report or affidavit from either the EMTs who treated him or the
hospital he claims to have been treated at. Which brings us to...

(2) I have yet to find any reference to an EMT report anywhere. What I do find are references to a call between EMT and dispatchers that cancel a
second ambulance. It is true that we do have the police report, but there is no evidence the police did an examination or followed protocols when
there is blood. What would settle it once and for all is either the medical report or a statement that one was not filed because there was no
injuries. Since you say there is one, then please help settle this by providing a reference to it. Thank you.

Oh really? Read the police report we have had for over a week
use the search function and you will find in this thread anything
and everything

Just like they would tell me as a police officer. "You are not a medical doctor." What did the paramedics say? (apparently they just left and didnt
bother to mess with Zimmerman). Where are the bandages? What were the nature of his injuries? Did Zimmerman go to the hospital the next day? (he said
he did) Did he really have a broken nose? (the police saw blood on the nose and mentioned it in the report but did not describe) Why are the police
treating him as if there was no pathogen? (assuming he had a broken nose there would be blood all over the place. My partner had a broken nose and he
had to go to the hosipital because his nose would not stop bleeding...it was a mess) Was Mr. Zimmerman knocked out? If so...there seem to be no side
effects to getting his head bashed in ... he walks around fine in the police video...and why did they leak the police video? (was someone at the
station angry? a disgruntled police officer?)

If there was a struggle, why didn't he fight back? Apparently Mr. Zimmerman was a bouncer at one time. He had no problem attacking women so why not
this kid? Did he just lay there and take it? Now we have doubt that the screaming heard on the audio was Zimmerman. If you take that into account, why
was the boy screaming? If it was Zimmerman screaming...well how did he get the chance if he was getting his head beat in within that short time frame?
(ever been in a fight?)

Was his gun out or did he have to reach for it at the time? What does Zimmerman's written statement have to say? Who is Mr. Zimmerman's witness?
What does he have to say ? Does that witness need to be questions more? At what range and angle did the kid get shot? Did the police even look into
that in an autopsy? If not...why?

Far too many questions. I am sure there are plenty more that I have not even touched. (There are some great questions raised by forum posters) The man
should not be free. He should be in jail or charged and bailed out. Who is protecting him and why ? (you see I didnt even mention race). The
officer/detective on scene wanted to charge him, thought they had enough evidence and was stopped. Why?

I dont see why you think this is cut and dry. Ive heard some many lame reasons ... "it was what he was wearing" "He should of never been there" or
"Zimmermans stalking was justified." Stupid...just Stupid.

I saw two men on the ground, on top of each other, obviously thinking, okay something really horrible is happening. And at that point, not looking
out the window, I heard a yell for help, and then I heard … another excruciating type of yell. It didn’t even almost sound like ‘help,’ it
almost sounded so painful. But I wasn’t watching out the window. [...] Next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, on
top of each other [...] I couldn’t see a lot of movement because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard gunshots,
which to me, were more like pops.
he said, he’d guess Zimmerman was the man on the top, but he could not say for sure since it was dark outside. Both struggles, he said, were in the
same location on the grass
At first I heard the voices with my window closed. And pretty much in that area, people walk their dogs, and you’ll hear people talking, and you can
hear them very clearly even when they’re not talking loud. So I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window (because it started
raining) ….

Originally posted by SeriousIndividual
The police report claims Zimmerman said he was calling out for help, but nobody came to his aid. Now why would he admit that right away to the police
if it wasn't true. He had no idea someone was recording audio nearby and we know on that audio you can hear someone yelling "Help" so how on Earth
would it make any sense to come the conclusion the person yelling "help" on the audio is Martin? Do you really think Zimmerman knew the audio of the
fight was somewhat being recorded? Do you think he had some sort of master plan to get away with murder? He's just some overly concerned guy. Clearly
the person on the audio is Zimmerman yelling "help". The only witnesses to the incident point to Zimmerman's story as they say he appeared to be
losing the fight. The voice on the audio does sound somewhat like a teenager, but if you listen to the 9/11 call from Zimmerman then you'll notice
his voice isn't very deep at all. It's actually somewhat high. The voice yelling "help" on the audio definitely could be his and the evidence
points to it being his.

edit on 2-4-2012 by SeriousIndividual because: (no reason given)

I wonder if Treyvon would dispute Zimmermans saying he was screaming? Guess we will never know since Zimmerman decided he was judge, jury, and
executioner that night.

Originally posted by hdutton
I have not taken the time to read all the other replies to this post but there is one question which I have got to ask.

Under Florida's "Stand your ground law" is it not possible That Trayvon Martin had a right to stand his ground if he felt treatened by someone
following him as he walked through the night?

Where do you draw the line between someone standing their ground by being aggressive with their bare hands, fists, and defending themselves by
carrying a 9mm handgun?

Would not the actions of someone following you make them the "primary aggressor" and open them up to your defending yourself by whatever means you had
available?

If a stalker where to be considered an agressor, it may be a good thing for Zimmerman that Martin did not have a gun.

edit on 2-4-2012 by hdutton because: (no reason given)

Ok, well then treyvon stood his ground with an armed man.

If your dumb enough to stand your ground against an armed man
who did not lay a hand on you and HIT THEM when they did not touch you
make sure they don;t have a gun.. Starting a fight with someone
who never hit you is wrong.
That armed man can stand his ground and shoot you.
Treyvon should of had a gun he was going to stand his ground..
If they both were standing there ground treyvon lost the fght
sore loosers?

Originally posted by SM2
a couple of things i would like to point out and clear up.

1. the second ambulance was called off. Ok, why was that? they had one (allegedly) injured person and one dead person. Why would they need 2
ambulances. That would require one ambulance and one coroner. So the calling off of the second ambulance is not even remotely evidence of anything so
stop bringing that up.

2. Mr.Zimmerman was arrested. He was not charged, but he was arrested. If you are handcuffed and detained, you are arrested. If you can not leave of
your free will you have been arrested. Now the police have 24 to 48 hours depending on local and state laws to be charged or released.

3. the fact that the lead investigator wanted him charged means that he was doing his job. The investigator always wants to arrest and charge a
suspect. That makes the case closed quickly and makes his/her numbers look good.

4. the fact that the State attorney declined to press charges shows that the amount of evidence present was not sufficient to disprove the suspects
statement. To break it down for the thick heads around here, there was not enough evidence to secure a warrant on murder or manslaughter charges.

5. People keep mentioning if a large man was following you with a gun you would have been scared. ok, great, I see your point. But it was dark, Mr
Martin had no way of seeing the gun. He did not know that Mr.Zimmerman was armed, unless Mr Zimmerman brandished the firearm. If that is the case,
then Mr .Zimmerman would have been charged with the crime of brandishing a firearm and if I am correct Assault. Assault if I am not mistaken is the
threat to use force or violence against another person. If that was the case, then Mr.Zimmerman is guilty as he started the altercation. If however,
he did not brandish the weapon, and was indeed on his way back to the vehicle, that confrontation is now over, if, Mr.Martin then proceeded to follow
him to the sidewalk or wherever and begin a physical altercation, that make Mr.Martin the legally responsible aggressor.

now, that being said, what we are left with is a bunch of hearsay and contradicting eye witness statements. I believe this case should go to a grand
jury and ALL of the evidence, police video, 911 recordings, etc be presented, which I am sure it will. If the evidence does show that Mr. Martin was
shot in the back, then Mr.Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter and sentenced to prison. Bear in mind, that murder is premeditated, they would
have to prove he had the intent from the beginning of the scenario to kill Mr.Martin. So the charge would be manslaughter. If the evidence supports
the statement of Mr.Zimmerman, then well, Mr.Zimmerman is innocent and alot of people owe him a lot of apologies.

Good things to point out. Nothing more then speculation though...."if he was pointing a gun?" Who would know that but Treyvon and Zimmerman ... and
Zimmerman would never tell if he did.

The idea that there were contradicting eye witness statements were enought to cause doubt on the entire situation. Do you actually think because I
went to the police and said I shot my wife in self defense and some witness said they may have saw something while other witnesses say something else
... that I would walk out of it free and still carrying my weapon? Really?

Originally posted by SM2
a couple of things i would like to point out and clear up.

1. the second ambulance was called off. Ok, why was that? they had one (allegedly) injured person and one dead person. Why would they need 2
ambulances. That would require one ambulance and one coroner. So the calling off of the second ambulance is not even remotely evidence of anything so
stop bringing that up.

2. Mr.Zimmerman was arrested. He was not charged, but he was arrested. If you are handcuffed and detained, you are arrested. If you can not leave of
your free will you have been arrested. Now the police have 24 to 48 hours depending on local and state laws to be charged or released.

3. the fact that the lead investigator wanted him charged means that he was doing his job. The investigator always wants to arrest and charge a
suspect. That makes the case closed quickly and makes his/her numbers look good.

4. the fact that the State attorney declined to press charges shows that the amount of evidence present was not sufficient to disprove the suspects
statement. To break it down for the thick heads around here, there was not enough evidence to secure a warrant on murder or manslaughter charges.

5. People keep mentioning if a large man was following you with a gun you would have been scared. ok, great, I see your point. But it was dark, Mr
Martin had no way of seeing the gun. He did not know that Mr.Zimmerman was armed, unless Mr Zimmerman brandished the firearm. If that is the case,
then Mr .Zimmerman would have been charged with the crime of brandishing a firearm and if I am correct Assault. Assault if I am not mistaken is the
threat to use force or violence against another person. If that was the case, then Mr.Zimmerman is guilty as he started the altercation. If however,
he did not brandish the weapon, and was indeed on his way back to the vehicle, that confrontation is now over, if, Mr.Martin then proceeded to follow
him to the sidewalk or wherever and begin a physical altercation, that make Mr.Martin the legally responsible aggressor.

now, that being said, what we are left with is a bunch of hearsay and contradicting eye witness statements. I believe this case should go to a grand
jury and ALL of the evidence, police video, 911 recordings, etc be presented, which I am sure it will. If the evidence does show that Mr. Martin was
shot in the back, then Mr.Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter and sentenced to prison. Bear in mind, that murder is premeditated, they would
have to prove he had the intent from the beginning of the scenario to kill Mr.Martin. So the charge would be manslaughter. If the evidence supports
the statement of Mr.Zimmerman, then well, Mr.Zimmerman is innocent and alot of people owe him a lot of apologies.

1. the ambulance did not know treyvon was dead until THEY pronounced him dead at 730. So did Zimmerman wait around for them to finish on Treyvon?
2. Whether he was under arrest or not is one question his attorney has brought. that is yet to be determined.
3. Lead Investigators want to charge when there is enough to charge. This lead investigator knew there was enough to charge and he didn't believe
Zimmermans account.
4. Can you give me another example when a State Attorney came to the crime scene and/or police station within hours of a killing and overruled the
lead investigator. Please show me examples of why you think this would be normal procedure for the State Attorney to get involved within hours.
5. How do you know Zimmerman didn't show his weapon? Do you think he would have just volunteered that information?

If it is shown Treyvon was shot in the back Zimmerman needs to be charged with Murder, not manslaughter. What reason at all could he have possibly had
to shoot him in the back, if he was. That would be murder for sure, there are different degrees of murder.

If goes to trial and he is found guilty than lots of people owe Treyvon an apology.

If I had to guess at what really happened that night, since no one really knows, I would imagine it went something like this:

After getting off the phone with 911 and being told it was unwise to follow, Zimmerman, fed up with the recent break-ins, decided to follow Martin
until the police arrived.

Fearing that the police would not come in time he decided to stop Martin and find out what he was up to.

Upon being confronted, Trayvon most likely told Zimmerman to shove it up his ass and continued on his way.

At this point Zimmerman became enraged and a shouting match ensued.

Filled with rage, Zimmerman either told Martin to wait there while he got his gun, pulled it out, or went for it in his truck.

At this point Martin attacked not wanting Zimmerman to either fire, or get a hold of his gun.

As they fought and Zimmerman thought he might lose, he discharged his gun.

And here we are.

Judging by Zimmerman's past arrest for domestic violence and assault on a police officer I find this a very likely scenario. However, since only
Zimmerman is alive to tell his part of the story, we will never know.

As of now I'm going to have to side with the police department who wanted to have Zimmerman charged with manslaughter; however, when you have a family
relative who is a judge sometimes you get away with things that others do not.

I saw two men on the ground, on top of each other, obviously thinking, okay something really horrible is happening. And at that point, not looking
out the window, I heard a yell for help, and then I heard … another excruciating type of yell. It didn’t even almost sound like ‘help,’ it
almost sounded so painful. But I wasn’t watching out the window. [...] Next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, on
top of each other [...] I couldn’t see a lot of movement because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard gunshots,
which to me, were more like pops.
he said, he’d guess Zimmerman was the man on the top, but he could not say for sure since it was dark outside. Both struggles, he said, were in the
same location on the grass
At first I heard the voices with my window closed. And pretty much in that area, people walk their dogs, and you’ll hear people talking, and you can
hear them very clearly even when they’re not talking loud. So I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window (because it started
raining) ….

Lines up with the kid who was walking his dog also.

edit on 2-4-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

By this eye witness statement it seems that Zimmerman was on top when the shots happen and in the grass not on concrete as his family has stated. That
contradicts Zimmermans story. You sure you want to use this witness?

I saw two men on the ground, on top of each other, obviously thinking, okay something really horrible is happening. And at that point, not looking
out the window, I heard a yell for help, and then I heard … another excruciating type of yell. It didn’t even almost sound like ‘help,’ it
almost sounded so painful. But I wasn’t watching out the window. [...] Next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, on
top of each other [...] I couldn’t see a lot of movement because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard gunshots,
which to me, were more like pops.
he said, he’d guess Zimmerman was the man on the top, but he could not say for sure since it was dark outside. Both struggles, he said, were in the
same location on the grass
At first I heard the voices with my window closed. And pretty much in that area, people walk their dogs, and you’ll hear people talking, and you can
hear them very clearly even when they’re not talking loud. So I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window (because it started
raining) ….

Lines up with the kid who was walking his dog also.

edit on 2-4-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

By this eye witness statement it seems that Zimmerman was on top when the shots happen and in the grass not on concrete as his family has stated. That
contradicts Zimmermans story. You sure you want to use this witness?

If you read it he did not see
let me point the part out for you

he’d guess Zimmerman was the man on the top, but he could not say for sure since it was dark outside.

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