On the heels of Circuit Judge Waddell Wallace finding the city violated the Sunshine Law during pension talks last spring, another lawsuit could have an even bigger impact on a 30-year agreement that spells out benefits for police and firefighter retirees.

That lawsuit by the Concerned Taxpayers of Duval County contends the city has had a years-long history of negotiating pension benefits in private, dating back to the talks that produced a 30-year agreement approved by City Council in 2001.

The lawsuit seeks to toss that pact on grounds the city violated the Sunshine Law by not holding public meetings when the city and the Police and Fire Pension Fund were hashing out the agreement before it went to City Council.

The lawsuit is set for trial in April in Circuit Judge James Daniel’s court.

Meanwhile, the Jacksonville Pension Reform Task Force is striving to finish its work this month on recommendations that would make changes in the 30-year agreement, which runs through 2031.

Mayor Alvin Brown and City Council President Bill Gulliford have both called pension reform a top priority and are looking to the 17-member task force for a solution.

“What we don’t want is for the Retirement Reform Task Force to lose momentum,” Brown’s chief of staff Chris Hand said this week during a subcommittee meeting of the task force.

Wallace’s ruling sided with Times-Union News Editor Frank Denton’s argument that the city and the Police and Fire Pension Fund violated the Sunshine Law during talks last spring about amending the 30-year agreement.

Wallace determined the Police and Fire Pension Fund acted as a representative of the police and firefighter unions, meaning the fund was engaged in collective bargaining on pension benefits. According to state law, collective bargaining sessions must be done in public.

Wallace’s order states that any meetings involving the city, the Police and Fire Pension Fund, or the unions must be done in public meetings if the topic is pension benefits.

Scheu said that provision means his hope of reaching a global settlement is “dead in the water” because it would be impossible to have productive discussions in a public forum with John Keane, executive director of the Police and Fire Pension Fund, about what the fund would accept.

Keane said Friday he agrees that public meetings make it hard to reach compromise because both parties would just be second-guessed about changing from their original positions.

“All it does is turn productive meetings into sideshows,” he said.

Keane said if Scheu doesn’t think it would be a good idea to meet in public sessions, “I would go along with Mr. Scheu’s recommendation. He’s served our community in a number of important, responsible positions over the years, and I would defer to his judgment.”

He said the Police and Fire Pension Fund remains committed to comprehensive pension reform and he hopes the task force can accomplish that aim.

“I think most of the people involved in it think the judge’s order prevents that from happening,” he said. “If you’ve got four people standing in four corners and they’re all willing to agree to meet in the middle and nobody takes the first step, how is that going to happen?”

Jacksonville attorney Robert Dees, who represents the Concerned Taxpayers of Duval County in its lawsuit, said other cities manage to negotiate pension benefits with their unions in public meetings.

“Why should the Police and Fire Pension Fund be different from every other union in the state?” he said.

The lawsuit filed in 2011 by Concerned Taxpayers and Jacksonville resident Curtis Lee resembles the Times-Union suit in contending the city violated the Sunshine Law. It raises the stakes by asking the judge to find the original 30-year agreement failed to conduct public meetings during negotiations between city officials and the Police and Fire Pension Fund.

“The clear implication is that to be valid, a contract for pension benefits negotiated by the city has to be done in public,” he said.

He said if the judge voided the settlement agreement, all the benefits in the contract would remain in place until the city entered collective bargaining talks with the unions representing police and firefighters. The results of that collective bargaining would be a three-year agreement.

Retired city attorney Steve Rohan, who was involved in drafting the 30-year agreement in 2001, said Friday that the city had always regarded the Police and Fire Pension Fund as advocates for retirees, but not as an agent of the police and firefighter unions.

“At no time did we believe that we were engaging in collective bargaining,” Rohan said.

He said based on that belief, the city didn’t apply the Sunshine Law requirements, such as posting public notices and allowing the general public to sit in on the discussions that led up to introduction of the legislation.

He said Wallace’s judgment is “very forceful of what does and doesn’t violate the Sunshine Law.” He said in regard to the Concerned Taxpayer’s lawsuit, he thinks it was filed too long after the 2001 settlement agreement for the group to strike down the agreement.

“I find it hard to believe that after so many years, the Sunshine Law would be the basis for overturning it,” Rohan said.

In court papers, the city and the Police and Fire Pension Fund deny violating the Sunshine Law. They also argue that there is a four-year statute of limitations on filing a lawsuit, which would prevent a challenge to actions done in 2001.

Open government does indeed expose many, we'll say ... facets... of government which is the point of the law in its protection of the people as a whole.

When it is said "We inherited this mess" that is indeed true that this city of today inherited the "sins of our fathers"

Johnc you know as well as I none of this should have ever happened ... but because of the arrogance of "a few mayors" and such who thought themselves untouchable because of Charter now hopefully will be exposed for what they have done to this community.

Charter never trumps Statute and those that manipulate the law and put themselves above the law will eventually be made to pay for their self serving sins. And rightfully so.

"Rebel" (John Keane aside), you touch on an important point. I agree with you regarding Steve Rohan. He is a very capable attorney, who I would not hesitate to have represent me. It will be interesting to see if he and several other City attorneys, as well as a few mayors, and numerous City Council members now contend that they always felt that the settlement agreement was illegal. In fact, it may be that one of the City's expensive outside labor attorneys stated that in open negotiations with the fire fighters' union a year or two ago, as perhaps did yet another expensive outside attorney in an "opinion" letter.

The contention now by attorneys who negotiated that agreement, that it was illegal, could raise its own legal action and professional concerns for them.

Careful what you ask for. "Success" here could explode COJ debt even more, with city having to pay back both original debts from the settlement agreement immediately AND the accrued debt now owed to employees over all these years. Rendering the settlement agreement illegal doesn't erase the accrued debt.

Perhaps sunshine was violated. But unless you believe a federal judge was in on a conspiracy to help out PFPF to violate sunshine law, it's a mountain out of a molehill. Parties were acting in good faith, both recently and in the 30 year settlement agreement. I also feel a little bit like when the FTU inserted itself into the story with the sunshine lawsuit, that colored its reporting. There has literally been no conversation nor editorializing about the fact that two other COJ pension funds are also massively in debt nor about the pending $400million-plus liability for excluding some COJ employees from enrollment.

Would it not be ironic if a sunshine law violation gets the 30 year deal thrown out and explodes the debt even more?

Some of us would have expected a bit more "concern" regarding budget proposals which would have reduced police, and fire and rescue protection levels, despite a number of studies which indicated how ill-advised that was. Citizens in my neighborhood, especially the older ones had those "concerns".

Those "brave men and women of the police and fire fighting forces" get to elect or un-elect their union leaders, pension trustees, and pension advisory committee members. Their membership numbers and names are a matter of public record, as are the names of those elected leaders. That is not the case with all parties involved in these lawsuits and issues.