Huh ... looks like HoopsNation was so far off after all. Raps are apparently after Jermaine. :confused2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Smith

It’s all very tentative and quite up in the air but the Raptors have already investigated the possibility of a blockbuster trade that would net them a veteran – yet expensive – NBA centre.

According to league sources, Toronto has had talks with the Indiana Pacers about acquiring 29-year-old Jermaine O’Neal for a package that would include T.J. Ford, Rasho Nestervoic and, perhaps, the 17th pick in this week’s draft.

The talks are not the point where any deal is imminent and a deal is certainly not assured but the source said the Raptors are aggressively trying to move Ford and O’Neal is one of their targets.

Toronto also still has serious interest in forward Boris Diaw of the Phoenix Suns and is in talks with at least three other teams for trades of a similar magnitude.

Man I wish I could find a rumour that really excited me. Does this really qualify as a blockbuster? With all the swirling talk I'm thinking there's a huge multi-team deal in the works.

Superjudge

06-23-2008 11:50 AM

I think you guys undervalue O'neal.

He may have had some injuriy issues, but standing beside Bosh he might not be too bad.

MangoKidHoops

06-23-2008 11:52 AM

If this off-season netted us O'Neal and Jefferson, I'd probably look hard into renewing season tickets.

Superjudge

06-23-2008 11:57 AM

meh.

who knows, I'm sure whatever happens none of us will have seen coming anyhow.

Acie

06-23-2008 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge
(Post 37191)

I think you guys undervalue O'neal.

He may have had some injuriy issues, but standing beside Bosh he might not be too bad.

Do you mean in a suit, during a timeout before he retakes his seat at the end of the bench? :guitar:

Belsius

06-23-2008 12:22 PM

I cant Oneal, I hope we trade for someone else.

fancylad

06-23-2008 12:25 PM

If TJ will be the focal part of the trade from Toronto's point of view, i can't see an Oneal trade being the frontrunner. It's just too risky. It may yeild the biggest gain, but it also clearly involves the biggest risk in terms of injury.

I think if other teams pull out of trade talks, then it may go down, but i can't see BC thinking this is his best option.

jeffb

06-23-2008 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation
(Post 37186)

I wouldn't take the deal unless Indiana threw in their pick(12th).

I agree swap picks then give them #17,T.J and Rasho. But i wouldn't touch O'neal with his huge salary and injury issues!

This guy is scheduled to make 21.3 million next season and 23 million in 09/10 season.His career numbers are 14PPG &7RPG? No way! And the last 4 seasons he's averaged 51GP!!BC would be nuts to pull the trigger on this.

04-05(44 games played)
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06-07(69 games played)
07-08(42 games played)

This is the second time in the past two years the Pacers and Raptors have had Jermaine O'Neal talks. The first time it revolved around the 1st overall pick which Colangelo elected to use in selecting Andrea Bargnani. Now the second time its TJ Ford:

Quote:

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, the Raptors and Indiana Pacers have discussed a deal that would send power forward/centre Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto in exchange for Ford, centre Rasho Nesterovic and one other player to make the deal work under the NBA's salary cap.

Toronto's first round pick (17th overall) at Thursday's NBA Draft is also believed to be in play.

Ok, so here's the deal. During the time of the first negotiations two years ago the hold up was due to O'Neal's huge contract which had four years remaining. Now, two years later that contract only has two years remaining:

So with that said the risk isn't large anymore. Yes, he's owed a lot of money but with only two seasons left O'Neal isn't a long term liability anymore.

Whats more lets look at the time O'Neal's contract expires, at the end of the 2009/10 season. What do the Raptors have going on that off-season? Well that just happens to be the off-season when Chris Bosh can opt out of his contract and become and unrestricted free agent:

When considering this the deal makes perfect sense. The Raptors will have a good idea about whether Chris is going to opt out or not before the end of the 2009/10 season and I know this because the man is an honest straight forward person. With O'Neals $23M off the books that off-season the Raptors will be able to match any offer for Bosh AND have money left over to bring in another nice player or re-sign O'Neal.

The Raptors need rebounding, defense and low post scoring. Jermaine O'Neal gives you all of that and I think he and Chris would feed off each other. It would also take a lot of pressure off Andrea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb
(Post 37229)

This guy is scheduled to make 21.3 million next season and 23 million in 09/10 season.His career numbers are 14PPG &7RPG? No way! And the last 4 seasons he's averaged 51GP!!BC would be nuts to pull the trigger on this.

That's not an accurate set of numbers once you consider he entered the league straight out of high school and hardly played in his first four seasons. That skews the numbers:

He's been more a long the lines of a 20PPG 9REB player since being traded to the Pacers and receiving minutes.

jeffb

06-23-2008 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo
(Post 37241)

This is the second time in the past two years the Pacers and Raptors have had Jermaine O'Neal talks. The first time it revolved around the 1st overall pick which Colangelo elected to use in selecting Andrea Bargnani. Now the second time its TJ Ford:

Ok, so here's the deal. During the time of the first negotiations two years ago the hold up was due to O'Neal's huge contract which had four years remaining. Now, two years later that contract only has two years remaining:

So with that said the risk isn't large anymore. Yes, he's owed a lot of money but with only two seasons left O'Neal isn't a long term liability anymore.

Whats more lets look at the time O'Neal's contract expires, at the end of the 2009/10 season. What do the Raptors have going on that off-season? Well that just happens to be the off-season when Chris Bosh can opt out of his contract and become and unrestricted free agent:

When considering this the deal makes perfect sense. The Raptors will have a good idea about whether Chris is going to opt out or not before the end of the 2009/10 season and I know this because the man is an honest straight forward person. With O'Neals $23M off the books that off-season the Raptors will be able to match any offer for Bosh AND have money left over to bring in another nice player or re-sign O'Neal.

The Raptors need rebounding, defense and low post scoring. Jermaine O'Neal gives you all of that and I think he and Chris would feed off each other. It would also take a lot of pressure of Andrea.

If this guy stays healthy he can help.But at the same time he's still owed 44 million dollars over the next two seasons.This for a guy averaging 51 GP per season over the last 4 seasons and isn't a 20PPG/10RPG anymore.Like i said earlier alot of money for that big a risk.And when you're talking that kind of dough it is a risk.

MangoKidHoops

06-23-2008 01:29 PM

I don't know where Andrea fits in if we deal for O'Neal. That would take away a lot of development. I think Andrea would go in a deal that would net us a swingman.

Apollo

06-23-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb
(Post 37246)

If this guy stays healthy he can help.But at the same time he's still owed 44 million dollars over the next two seasons.This for a guy averaging 51 GP per season over the last 4 seasons and isn't a 20PPG/10RPG anymore.Like i said earlier alot of money for that big a risk.And when you're talking that kind of dough it is a risk.

The thing is he's only 29 years old I don't think Colangelo would pull the trigger on the deal unless O'Neal is cleared by Raptors doctors. For that to happen he can't be damaged goods. So really if the deal does go down then it wouldn't be Colangelo taking a huge risk, it would be Colangelo taking a calculated risk. At the end of the day if it blows up in their faces its not like the Raptors were going to be legit contenders in the next two seasons, the contract expires in two seasons and they will have lots of cap space to re-sign Bosh the max money deal he will command.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation
(Post 37248)

I don't know where Andrea fits in if we deal for O'Neal. That would take away a lot of development. I think Andrea would go in a deal that would net us a swingman.

Some pressure would be off of him, he wouldn't have to play center 25-30 minutes per game and he could go back to being the sixth man coming off the bench. I don't think he regressed last season, I think he was thrown to the wolves at center and he obviously wasn't ready. He would certainly bounce back playing 30 minutes per game at the forward spot off the bench.

Adequate Swag

06-23-2008 01:35 PM

Apollo just summed up everything I was going to say.

This is without a doubt the best option the Raptors have gotten yet.

1) When healthy, JO is a beast. Whoever just quoted his career numbers needs to realize that this guy didn't get minutes when he was in Portland, and multiple seasons averaging close to 0 and 0 will hurt your career numbers. In his prime (which wasn't THAT long ago) this guy was an MVP candidate. Currently, his rebounding and defense (help defense anyway) are still above average, and he can run the pick and roll effectively. In addition, his scoring ability down low would prevent teams from aggresively defending Bosh at the wing or the elbow. JO, health issues aside, brings ALOT to the table in addressing Toronto's on-court deficiencies.

2) As Appolo stated, his contract is, in my opinion, a plus for a couple of reasons. First of all, at the very least, it comes off the books in 2010, the noted big summer for free agency. In addition, an expiring deal that big is a phenomenal trade asset. Teams like the Knicks will certainly be looking to take on deals like this so they can clear lots of room in 2010 for a Lebron run. So if JO shows anything on the court, he immediately becomes a tradeable asset next summer or during the following season.

3) How can you complain about a durability issue when we are trading TJ? You can't expect to trade a guy with significant injury concerns and get back a player of equal value with no such concerns. It's unrealistic. And honestly, I'd rather gamble on a great player staying healthy (or even giving us 60 games) than trade for an average player who has a better chance at playing 80.

The Raptors would be trading their back up point guard for a guy who, when healthy, would start for any team in the Eastern Conference AND fills a need. To those who don't like this deal, please present us with a better realistic option. Is it Boris Diaw? Seriously?

MangoKidHoops

06-23-2008 01:36 PM

If the Raps are gonna make a run for it and still have a boatload of room for the 2010 summer FA, then this deal isn't bad. Yeah, it's a lot of money, it's a high risk, high reward type of deal, but the real work is for that summer of 2010. And if J.O. performs beautifully in 08-09, he could be a HUGE bargaining chip with as a 22 million expiring in the 09-10 season.

MangoKidHoops

06-23-2008 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adequate Swag
(Post 37254)

Apollo just summed up everything I was going to say.

This is without a doubt the best option the Raptors have gotten yet.

1) When healthy, JO is a beast. Whoever just quoted his career numbers needs to realize that this guy didn't get minutes when he was in Portland, and multiple seasons averaging close to 0 and 0 will hurt your career numbers. In his prime (which wasn't THAT long ago) this guy was an MVP candidate. Currently, his rebounding and defense (help defense anyway) are still above average, and he can run the pick and roll effectively. In addition, his scoring ability down low would prevent teams from aggresively defending Bosh at the wing or the elbow. JO, health issues aside, brings ALOT to the table in addressing Toronto's on-court deficiencies.

2) As Appolo stated, his contract is, in my opinion, a plus for a couple of reasons. First of all, at the very least, it comes off the books in 2010, the noted big summer for free agency. In addition, an expiring deal that big is a phenomenal trade asset. Teams like the Knicks will certainly be looking to take on deals like this so they can clear lots of room in 2010 for a Lebron run. So if JO shows anything on the court, he immediately becomes a tradeable asset next summer or during the following season.

3) How can you complain about a durability issue when we are trading TJ? You can't expect to trade a guy with significant injury concerns and get back a player of equal value with no such concerns. It's unrealistic. And honestly, I'd rather gamble on a great player staying healthy (or even giving us 60 games) than trade for an average player who has a better chance at playing 80.

The Raptors would be trading their back up point guard for a guy who, when healthy, would start for any team in the Eastern Conference AND fills a need. To those who don't like this deal, please present us with a better realistic option. Is it Boris Diaw? Seriously?

Thanks Swag. Beautiful post. :guitar:

Superjudge

06-23-2008 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge
(Post 37191)

I think you guys undervalue O'neal.

He may have had some injuriy issues, but standing beside Bosh he might not be too bad.