For women, it's just when you go to a weekly playcircle, most moms don't want to be discussing the formation of black holes or the impact of greehouse gases on the environment.

No kidding. Very disheartening, and you don't have to go to a kids' playcircle to find yourself among women with banal conversational tastes.

Originally Posted by 21lux

I agree with everything @redherring and @BadOctopus have stated. Gender stereotypes are toxic to male F types. Feeling is seen by our society as "feminine" and being "feminine" is being "weak", so Feeling males who use their natural dom/aux functions are seen as "weak". It's a bit better for women Ts, because being a T is considered "strong" and "masculine" which is okay, but even then, they might get criticized for not being "feminine" or "womanly" enough.

Nobody can ever win.

I did. I've never let any of this get in the way of what I want to do.

If women Ts have it easier, it's only because it is in the nature of T not to care overmuch what someone else thinks of us (or is that just NT?)

I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

I did. I've never let any of this get in the way of what I want to do.

If women Ts have it easier, it's only because it is in the nature of T not to care overmuch what someone else thinks of us (or is that just NT?)

Yeah. I didn't really mean that they have it easier, just that it's more "acceptable". Kind of like how it's acceptable for women to wear men's clothing but "unacceptable" for men to wear women's clothing (ugh). I also have the feeling that for women Ts, people would be more likely to feign acceptance but totally be silently judging you for not being more womanly/ladylike/feminine etc, whereas I feel like male Fs would be more likely to be physically confronted. Am I the only one who thinks that?

Personally I have had problems with friends who expect me to sympathize with certain individuals and their hardships, usually my resonse to this is to point out what the person did to deserve what happened to them, this leads to people looking at me like what??

Lately it is annoying as all hell because I keep getting told off for not being friendly enough with people. I generally just do not like talking to people my own age, especially girls my own age, because generally it is all just drama. I can enjoy drama and gossip to an extent, but they will like cry and everyone will be hugging and I am wondering what the big deal is.

Like the other day the people at work were all talking about their depression and suicide attempts and crying and I was like seriously... I guess I am just not that deep. Society does expect quite alot of women in regards to nurturing.

Do you think that it is harder to be a male F in a society where men are stereotyped as alligning more with thinking traits. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a female T in a country where women are supposed to naturally be more feeling oriented. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a male F or a female T?

Are male Fs less expressive with their feelings than their female counterparts because of societal expectations? Are female Ts more likely to act more nurturing and emotional than male Ts because that is what is expected of them?

These are good questions with complex answers. I think that T traits are an advantage to both genders in professional contexts. Generally it is more difficult for any individual who falls outside the norm, so generally I think it can be more difficult for both, but in different ways. Sensitive men do have a tough time in the world for sure. It can also be difficult for a T woman professionally because the imbalances are especially frustrating for them.

Part of the reason I've avoided what would be my normal professional environments is because I'm not T enough. More than that I'm not male enough. I've observed the women who do get the jobs and some level of success and even their external appearance, dress, haircut, mannerisms have to be masculine. For one simple example, virtually no female music professor I've ever had would have long hair. It is always short, butch, their manner rough, clipped, and masculine. I'd have to consciously change my external self if I ever hoped to get a job. I'm sure people will immediately think of exceptions, and yes, there are exceptions, but statistically it is how I describe it.

Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors. Fear of reality creates myopic moralitySo I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
(from Blue Velvet)

I don't think I'm a feeler, but I do feel like I have experienced consequences for not fitting into certain male roles. In a way, being intellectual and not being too interested in sports is also often seen as unmasculine. I'm also uninterested in pissing contests, and this has also caused problems in the past.

Originally Posted by whatever

It would be nice if people would quit asking me if I'm a lesbian just because I enjoy shopping for power tools but hate shopping for clothing...

Otherwise, I'm generally left alone in my T ways

I think it's pretty obvious that buying tools is the same thing as desiring other women sexually. Because logic.

[Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11

@Jennifer I wish that you were in my mommy play circle. So much of what those women want to talk about are just plain boring to me...
@whatever I love my power tools! I also really enjoy going to Lowes or Home Depot. I am definitely a Feeler, but I love the possibilities that are open to you with home improvement.

I think I have just learned that I need more T women friends.

"ENFJ- The Diplomat Champion (will take on crusades and WILL kill every last mfr in the room!)" ~Xander

For women, it's just when you go to a weekly playcircle, most moms don't want to be discussing the formation of black holes or the impact of greehouse gases on the environment.

I like this. Would it be the same though with a generalized group of men? It seems like sports and politics are common topics of choice. I wonder how the percentages would look for either gender to talk about interesting topics.

Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors. Fear of reality creates myopic moralitySo I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
(from Blue Velvet)

Jennifer I wish that you were in my mommy play circle. So much of what those women want to talk about are just plain boring to me...

yay!

But yes. I can deal for a little bit in similar kinds of circles, then I start to go a little bugnuts.

Originally Posted by fia

I like this. Would it be the same though with a generalized group of men? It seems like sports and politics are common topics of choice. I wonder how the percentages would look for either gender to talk about interesting topics.

Yeah, sports and politics and cars seem pretty typical, although I think it's easier to find guys who fall into a "geek" or "tech geek" category than it is for girls with interests in those areas.

Normally girls with interests like that hang out with guys who talk about them because it's hard to find other women.

There is another woman in one of my gaming groups, but in my other two groups I'm the only girl.

One really nice thing about where I work now is that it's IT/tech, but it's a very diverse force. More than half the people I work with are women (and it seems pretty 50/50 as far as white/non-white goes as well), and whether the woman is a T or an F type, she is typically technically competent and expresses strong analytical skills.

"Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

“Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

Yeah most of my friends are guys. I find them more interesting to talk to and less likely to get offended in general. Women can get really catty. I talk to both, but generally my more interesting discussions are with guys.

Yeah, sports and politics and cars seem pretty typical, although I think it's easier to find guys who fall into a "geek" or "tech geek" category than it is for girls with interests in those areas.

Normally girls with interests like that hang out with guys who talk about them because it's hard to find other women.

There is another woman in one of my gaming groups, but in my other two groups I'm the only girl.

One really nice thing about where I work now is that it's IT/tech, but it's a very diverse force. More than half the people I work with are women (and it seems pretty 50/50 as far as white/non-white goes as well), and whether the woman is a T or an F type, she is typically technically competent and expresses strong analytical skills.

I can definitely see there are more guys with tech related interests. I'm just remembering growing up with my super-nerd INFJ brother, and he almost never had guy friends. He was into theoretical physics and Dr Who even as a child with little hope of finding anyone like minded. It's hard to say which one of us had a harder time finding friends to talk to about interesting things. He wasn't rigorously technical with computers, but proficient talking about it. There's so much macho interfacing between guys socially that is just as subjective and emotionally driven as the giggly relationship and clothing talk women have.

Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors. Fear of reality creates myopic moralitySo I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
(from Blue Velvet)