They would strike, then strike again 12 hours later, then spend the rest of the millennium bickering about arcana while one idiot bastard alien kept sending messages saying "Hi I'm from earf, you missed one," and "Commander Xeebo is a diddlepeen who eats natalie portman for frosty piss."

The military is still being paid, but they are no longer sending feeds of sporting events ( including the NFL ) to the soldiers.They are however, keeping Camp David and military golf courses open ( which he plays a lot on ).

On other notes. Republicans in the House passed a resolution to keep funding NIH research ( into things like childrens cancer ), but a party line vote in the Senate killed it. They also "shutdown" the WWII monument. This despite the fact that it remained open during other shutdowns. This despite the fact that it is open 24/7 but only manned during working hours. Veterans arriving found the monument blocked off by "Barry-cades". They were not to be stopped and simply went around. So to save the money for the shutdown the adminstration hired people to wire the Barry-cades together.

Oh and the White House chefs are considered essential. They have not been furloughed. Guess they are needed to bake the cakes.

That is some petty, small-minded thinking. Of course the Republicans are going to push for gradually refunding the government in a series of small bills, it alleviates public pressure on the shutdown. If they had their way the shutdown would only pertain to Obamacare.

So they put forth these bills that they know won't pass so they can blame the Democrats on keeping things closed. It riles up their base of narrow-minded twats who get 90% of their daily news intake from ultra-conservative loudmouths on talk radio and Drudge Report.

But that talk radio will conveniently omit the fact:

1) The bill is law. The debate is settled. It's been signed into law. The court has ruled. The president has been re-elected, he has been endorsed by the majority of voting people to be on the right track.2) Conservative lawmakers planned on using "the power of the purse" to get their way -- i.e. shut down government.3) The House is chosing to abide by the "Hastert Rule" and impeding a vote on the senate's version of the bill. That bill would pass, but unless there is a "majority of the majority" likely to vote on the bill the bill will not come to a vote. This means the Republican Party, already fracturing from their reeling defeats in previous elections, is hostage to the Tea Party, a party that holds views dramatically right of most people.

"1) The bill is law. The debate is settled. It's been signed into law. The court has ruled. The president has been re-elected, he has been endorsed by the majority of voting people to be on the right track." - The "shutdown" is also law, signed into law by President Obama himself. The debate here is about a new law authorizing new discretionary spending. The Republicans in the House were also re-elected and endorsed by their constituents while running on a platform of repealing the ACA. Elections have conse

The Hastert Rule is enforced by the majority in Congress. If a majority of Representatives wanted to get rid of Boehner, or change the rule, or even leave him alone and bring anything they wanted to the floor of the House to vote on it [wikipedia.org], they could. The Speaker can be fired anytime you can get a majority of Congress to go along. The Caucus rules can be changed any time a majority wants to.

While some Representatives have publicly said they'd support this bill or that one, that's not the same as actually signi

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the Affordable Care Act is constitutional. There's nowhere to go after the Supreme Court.

You're saying that they ruled it a "tax". That's not their ruling. If they ruled that way, that would imply they could make a law constitutional, but by ruling in such a way, the law is then unconstitutional. They cannot make up a paradox like that, that's not how the court works. Especially not the 9 justices of the Supreme Court.

You're absolutely right. When you have a Honda and want a Porsche, first you trash the Honda, then you try to figure out how to get the Porsche.

Also John Roberts ruled that the mandate was effectively a tax and therefore fell within the powers of Congress to legislate. Where the bill "originated" is an arcane arguement with little clarity... Per the constitution, in the case of appropriations the "Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills,"

You're absolutely right. When you have a Honda and want a Porsche, first you trash the Honda, then you try to figure out how to get the Porsche.

That's a pretty good car analogy for Obamacare since it trashes private health insurance, the "Honda" of this example. I gather the end goal, the "Porsche" is single-payer.

Also John Roberts ruled that the mandate was effectively a tax and therefore fell within the powers of Congress to legislate. Where the bill "originated" is an arcane arguement with little clarity... Per the constitution, in the case of appropriations the "Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills,"

I didn't bring this up, but I really am not surprised that you think this is "arcane" rather than merely "unconstitutional". What's another violation when you've already brushed off so many?

You did bring up the Roberts opinion. And it was the majority opinion, which you seem to imply it was not... And the GOP appears to agree that arguements over bill origin are arcane and not winnable.

The fact of the matter is that the Constitution provides for revisions by the Senate to be sent back to the House, and that's exactly what happened. If your argument is that the bill was "invented" by the Senate, the onus is on you to prove that. Good luck.

There's really no arguing with the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution.

Well, I just did and will continue to do so.

Instead, the legislative branch should be legislating fixes. Instead, the House is refusing to vote on the Senate bill, and therefore blocking legislation, and therefore failing at their job as legislators.

Looks to me like they are. Once again, I find it interesting how easily certain people ignore and brush off fundamental law when it doesn't go their way and want to dot every "i" and cross every "t" when it does. Everyone is doing their job as I see it including the House.

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the Affordable Care Act is constitutional. There's nowhere to go after the Supreme Court.

No they did not. They ruled the ACA is not unconstitutional based on the arguments presented to them. The Supreme court does not deem anything constitutional, it determines if something violates the constitution and infers the constitutionality of it when it is not unconstitutional. Don't let the wording trip you up. When a court's opinion says something is constitutiona

If refusing to fund it- to the point of shutting down the government creates action on it, then maybe so.

However, the government remains shut down largely due to Democrats refusing to take up individual spending bills and refusing to concede on very minor points in the law. The republicans have decreased their demands from de-funding it to removing the medical device tax which is also popular with a few democrats, to removing the special subsidy that Obama somehow created for congress and it's staff that th

However, I still disagree. To me this still sounds like rationalization of an unreasonable demand to defund Obamacare. The House has attempted 41 times to repeal Obamacare, and to my (admittedly limited) knowledge made no serious attempt to remedy the law.

There are so many things wrong with this law, including the premise it provides healthcare when it only provides insurance for a few more people, it is almost unfix-able. This is frustrated in how it was passed and how the supreme court reinterpreted the l

They also "shutdown" the WWII monument. This despite the fact that it remained open during other shutdowns. This despite the fact that it is open 24/7 but only manned during working hours. Veterans arriving found the monument blocked off by "Barry-cades". They were not to be stopped and simply went around. So to save the money for the shutdown the adminstration hired people to wire the Barry-cades together.

The Democrats and Barack Obama did not personally call the Parks department to "shutdown" particular monuments if that's what you are implying. I'm pretty sure the Parks department has a detailed plan for the shutdown that didn't involve the President or the Senate. It doesn't have to make sense to you and me but that's their call as the Parks department is in charge.

What you have really is that the Republicans want to shut everything down but don't want the political blame for shutting things down.

The Democrats and Barack Obama did not personally call the Parks department to "shutdown" particular monuments if that's what you are implying.

[...]

What you have really is that the Republicans want to shut everything down but don't want the political blame for shutting things down.

Let's not get hasty here and claim things that just might not be true. Last I checked the NPS really was going out of their way to close things down which hadn't been closed down in previous shutdowns. Who knows, that might have been due to a direct call from Obama or merely strongly implied in a meeting with the Secretary of the Interior.

Second, Republicans are known to want to shut down Obamacare to the point of forty-something votes to that effect.

Let's not get hasty here and claim things that just might not be true. Last I checked the NPS really was going out of their way to close things down which hadn't been closed down in previous shutdowns.

Please bring up a credible citation other than some GOP website that heard it from someone who overheard from their friend. Something official. I bet you can't. Besides that point, the NPS != Democrats or Barack Obama. The NPS is made of career government employees, many of whom have (and will serve) multiple administrations.

Who knows, that might have been due to a direct call from Obama or merely strongly implied in a meeting with the Secretary of the Interior.

After what you said above, now, you are going to insinuate unsubstantiated rumor or lies? Personally I don't think that the President gets involved with these details. People some

Republicans in the House passed a resolution to keep funding NIH research ( into things like childrens cancer ), but a party line vote in the Senate killed it.

You should be happy the Democrats aren't willing to negotiate with the terrorists (Republicans). The Republicans are trying to do an end-run around democracy itself. That the Republicans are willing to do this should scare the hell out of everyone, no matter what your opinion of Obamacare is.

Democracy would seem to require the input of all involved. Not negotiating would literally be the end run around democracy. Perhaps you meant an end run around what you want?

Calling the republicans terrorist because they are using valid and existing tools of the trade to participate within this republic- and those tools have been used by democrats in the past 40 years as well, is just another symptom of a mindset that doesn't jive with reality.

Actually, the cost of bringing them all home would be VERY expensive. It cost money to get them there, and it costs money to bring them home. But, if you bring them home for long enough then you might save money in the long term. But since the military is paid salary and not hourly, I'm betting the cost savings would take years to reap.

And if you think you'll bring them home "during the shutdown" I can guarantee that you'll definitely be spending more money in the long run. But I don't think this was you

We wanted this. We asked for it by voting in these idiots. And by "We" that just means the majority.

Nope. The Republicans control the House of Representatives despite not having a nationwide overall majority. They are in power solely because the voting districts are gerrymandered in such a way as to amplify their power and dilute the Democrats'.

But its not like we didn't know where the lines were drawn. All of these problems are created by humans, managed by humans, and controlled by humans. If we don't like the situation we've put ourselves in, then we should change them. If we didn't we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

That I think implies that the site is protected by federal police, and in light of the widespread shutdown it seems plausible that they felt it couldn't be properly supervised. They may have their hands full as it is.

That I think implies that the site is protected by federal police, and in light of the widespread shutdown it seems plausible that they felt it couldn't be properly supervised. They may have their hands full as it is.

Right... even though federal police are considered "essential" and are still working? These private business reports are places with contracted leases that weren't closed during previous "shutdown"s. They produce revenue for the government, they don't consume it.

What right do the Interior Department people have to violate their lease and keep them from operating? Because they're trying to throw the biggest bureaucratic temper tantrum possible?

The majority of the ACA is mandatory funding, not discretionary...which makes the Republican's government shutdown all the more moronic.

not if you paid attention to what they want to do. Only portions of the aca is mandatory and they tried to remove the mandatory itself. Now they just want to remove thr medical device tax which several democrats agree with doing, remove the subsidy scheme oboma designrf for congress, and either delay the personal mandate as long as big business is exempt or remove the exemp

What they want doesn't matter as much as the way it's being done. This shutdown is like taking a thermonuclear device to a ping pong match. They are damaging the US economy for what, a minor tweak in health insurance? This sort of crap has to be stopped before it becomes the default option to repeal laws.

I this keeps on going any bets as to when Cruz gets a medal from Putin and Xi?

When the opposite is I will work with you as long as you want to do everything I want to do is often the only other option, I can understand why some republicans thought this might be a good idea. I don't think it was the best idea ever, but it isn't crazy or moronic like the GP implied.

Ultimately, the best option would be for the senate to take up an actual budget and pass it, work with the house to agree on one, and go at it. The continuing resolutions come around every 6 months specifically because the s

Republicans are not the problem, it's the hatching of the cuckoos eggs laid inside that bunch that are the problem. The health care proposal is trivial compared with what Nixon was going with yet these weirdos are doing so much damage in an attempt to stop it. They are prepared to bankrupt America just to stop less than 1% of the population from getting health insurance - how petty is that? The only people that will not be hurt much by it are the 1% at the other end.

Obama is choosing what to close and what not to close. Closing these facilities, national parks, monuments, etc. is pure politics on his part. There are plenty of other things he could cut, and he could have cut a long time ago.

Obama is choosing what to close and what not to close. Closing these facilities, national parks, monuments, etc. is pure politics on his part. There are plenty of other things he could cut, and he could have cut a long time ago.

Without funding from a continuing resolution, how would Obama keep these facilities, national parks, monuments, etc. funded and running?

If this plays out like I think it will, you will devoutly wish for a day when the Affordable Care Act, Obama, or partisan politics was something you might be concerned about. We are headed for a time when such concerns were the good old days.

If this plays out like I think it will, you will devoutly wish for a day when the Affordable Care Act, Obama, or partisan politics was something you might be concerned about. We are headed for a time when such concerns were the good old days.

Oh, you are so right, because the way I think it will play out is that the Democrats win and keep raising taxes and spending more and more on useless federal programs benefiting Obama's donors. And the result will be to bankrupt our nation and destroy our economy. And w

So -- Obama should order even more national park employees to work without pay? You do realize that the folks policing the barricades aren't being paid, right? Congress holds the power of the purse, and for now the purse is closed.

If it were *your* paycheck that was being withheld, you wouldn't call not being forced to work without pay "pure politics".

It's not a matter of Obama choosing to "cut" some things and not others. He can't pay anyone to work, but as president he can order some of them to work no

If you haven't saved a few months worth of income, it's your own fault. You can do that no matter what your income may be.

And it's something every one of us has to deal with; a government furlough certainly beats bankruptcy or job loss, something all of us have to face.

As for what the Republicans want, they use whatever means they have of pressuring the president. I think they are playing this wrong, but their political ineptitude doesn't make Obama's failures any less significant.

I was going to respond "President Obama has NEVER signed a budget", but other people have already made the point for me. The object of "cut spending" would suggest that the NPS should lock the gates and go home. But that's not what they're doing - they are (under Presidential direction!) doing ANYTHING THEY CAN to spite the American people, in an attempt to prod the populace into demanding quick action. When Nixon did that, few reporters called him on it. Now, the entire "press" is Obama supporters and

they are (under Presidential direction!) doing ANYTHING THEY CAN to spite the American people

Source?

I'm old and probably won't need to worry about surviving the civil war that is coming.

Oh, nevermind. You really should take a break from your normal programming from time to time. I would have simply discounted you, but I've seen several posts mentioning the intentional painfulness with no corroboration outside the usual complete nutters.

This is not about approving budgets because there are no budgets. Obama has failed to submit them, Congress has failed to pass them. This is about Obama demanding money willy-nilly and Congress refusing to pay it for equally chaotic reasons.

Budgets..... Aye, THERE'S the rub. By the Constitution, all bills appropriating money from the treasury of the United States MUST originate in the House. The Senate can propose amendments, which then go back to the House for their approval. The President is, officially, "out of the loop" for budgets.

In reality, most presidents in the last 100 years have proposed their own budgets, and an obliging Representative then introduces "his" budget, and then it's off to the races. In this case, Obama has never

Majority of the country favors obamacare. The majority of the country that republicans like to say support getting rid of it are split - 2/3rds actually think it goes too far... 1/3 doesn't think it goes far enough. that 1/3rd of so called group 'against the bill' doesn't want the act repealed... they wanted it expanded. Couple that with nearly 50% that identify as supporting the bill and you have a clear majority.

So I don't really see buyers remorse yet, what I see is 40 odd republican tea party candidates from election proof gerrymandered disctricts that literally cannot lose no matter how braindead they act have decided to hold the entire country hostage.

As an aside, Bill O'Reilly while a guest on the daily show suggested, really, the most sane compromises I've heard.

The US government is so absurdly screwed up -- giving state governers the electoral powers they have was idiotic. All aspects of elections should be run by completely non-partisan groups with no interfering with the state or federal political parties. From identifying districts to running the election itself.

That same episode of the daily show had another good factoid -- 90% incumbency rate, 10% approval rate. It's broken.

The US government is so absurdly screwed up -- giving state governers the electoral powers they have was idiotic. All aspects of elections should be run by completely non-partisan groups with no interfering with the state or federal political parties. From identifying districts to running the election itself.

I nominate myself as the sole non-partisan group needed to carry out this great mission and promise to execute my numerous foes, both real and imagined, as humanely and efficiently as I can given the unfortunate situation.

That same episode of the daily show had another good factoid -- 90% incumbency rate, 10% approval rate. It's broken.

You forget the most important aspect. Everyone votes for a single representation and a couple of senators. The rest of that august body doesn't serve your interests nor should.

And pretty much every poll that asks questions about provisions in Obamacare instead of just whether people like Obamacare shows that people love the provisions in Obamacare. Yes, people are that stupid.

By the Constitution, all bills appropriating money from the treasury of the United States MUST originate in the House

Yes, but the president needs to let the house know what the executive branch needs. That's how the process starts. And the president knows it because when he was a senator, he was complaining bitterly about a lack of leadership.

Barry-caded, haha. Next thing you know, the evil dictator for life will be putting Barry-cuda in all of our drinking water. He'll outlaw Straw-Barry milkshakes, and Barry-cade your local breakfast aisle at the grocery so you can't buy your Boo-Barry Crunch cereal.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the Barrs in the national parks were being outfitted with Obama masks and provoked into killing intruders. Next he'll repeal our right to Barr arms right before the miliBarry takeover!

Imagine an open field with rocks and trees. Now imagine putting up baracades and rangers to guard them. Some have edtimated that it costs more to close them then it did to operate. They are even paying overtime to sit rangers at the entrances of budinesses that get no federal funding at all in order to close them down only because they lease land from the parks or service patrons of the parks.

Was posting from my phone while traveling. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to derive the true wording and meaning from the context they were used in. Do you think pointing out grammatical errors somehow defeats the comment itself?

Interesting, so you decided that what you perceive as personal attacks are superior to arguing facts about what has been said. I guess no matter what you think of me or what I post, I can sleep comfortably knowing I am always a couple rungs higher then you.

I once worked for a company that ran a deficit ten years running, and stayed in business. The secret was that it was growing; income and expenditures were on parallel growth tracks, but income lagged slightly. By the time the bills came due there was cash on hand to pay them.

They should include legislative salaries in the shutdown, that would encourage them. Put in a constitutional amendment - when a budget for the United States is not in effect, Congressional representatives and senators shall not be paid.

That gets brought up every time, and it's a terrible idea. It would feel good, sure, but you gotta remember that most Congressmen are already filthy rich.

Emphasis on most. Some of them aren't, and they would be forced to cave in order to afford their rent. This country is enough of a plutocracy as it is. We'd best not give the rich yet another tool to extract concessions from the people.

They should include legislative salaries in the shutdown, that would encourage them. Put in a constitutional amendment - when a budget for the United States is not in effect, Congressional representatives and senators shall not be paid.

I'd rather defund the salaries of congressional security workers. Let legislators continue, but let them do so while worrying about what some crazy with a gun might do.

This is what happens when people vote with their arshole. The american people get the government they deserve, and right now they have decided to give the keys of the kingdom to a bunch of science hating, bible thumper, retarded tea baggers republicans.Maybe the few intelligent republicans still in Congress should fork the party. Call it Republican 2.0. Otherwise the US of A will be the laughing stock of the world for decades to come (ot at least until the next world war).

Both sides won't compromise so its both party's fault. Meanwhile, there are the funds and staff to update various websites to say they are shutdown, close down parks, blockade monuments, etc. And the healthcare.gov website is dysfunctional for almost a week?

And we are supposed to feel "sorry" for the government and its employees because they are a victim of the incompetence in Washington and they depend mostly on the federal government for funds?

I keep seeing this and it's bullshit. The house won't allow a vote on the senate budget bill because the neo-fascist Tea-Party won't allow the vote to take place with ACA funding in the bill. They're holding the budget hostage because they have failed on numerous other occasions to get ACA repealed using legitimate legislative channels. So now they're resorting to sleazy tactics like this one (and now that they've done it, how much do you want to bet we will see more of this?).

Groups A and B agree that item 1 should be passed. Group B believes that item 2 should be passed. Group B will not vote for item 1 until item 2 is part of the deal.
There is no way to say in this circumstance that Group A is a faulty party, as both groups agree that item 1 should be passed and Group A would pass it immediately.
The only leverage Group B extracts from withholding item 1 is the "gun to your head" sort. Everyone agrees that item 1 should pass, but Group B will not vote for it because they wa

Suppose I'm holding three apples that belong to you. When you ask for them back, I announce that I'm going to keep two of them. By your logic both of us are at fault, because there's a compromise position: I give you two apples and keep one of them. Both of us get less than we want, but more than we might get if we continue bickering until the apples rot.

By *my* logic, I'd be at fault because I failed to do something I ought to have done, nam

"Both sides won't compromise so it's both their fault?"
What a moronic statement. I hope that if you ever get mugged on the street, the police will sit back and declare that it's your fault you got shot because you refused to compromise.

both parties are in the pockets of various large corporations that *make money* from government spending. lawmakers invest on the basis of their insider information and infuence. they pay lip service to the debt and spending, but they really don't want to turn down the gravy spigot.

Science research and development, and related technologies, are what drives economies in the long term. Without doing the things you need to do in space science, medical research, geology, AI, philosophy, mathematics, etc. eventually you will be economic and technolgical sitting ducks -- like the indiginous populations around the world were in times of colonization. Many in the US know this, and it is not as stupid a country as it seems. Worrying completely about internal social problems IMO is self-defeati

But i guess the news didn't report a parks officer saying he got orders to make the shutdown as painful as possible or a top whitehouse official say they were fine with the shutdown because they were winning if obama actually cared about it.

With some thorough research, I have discovered that yes, the news DIDN'T report that, only fundamentalist blogs whose next story was shape shifting reptilians creating the Obamacare Death Panels were reporting anything of the sort.

With some thorough research, I have discovered that yes, the news DIDN'T report that, only fundamentalist blogs whose next story was shape shifting reptilians creating the Obamacare Death Panels were reporting anything of the sort.

I'm sure you think you are doing thourough research. And in your fantasy land, it might be as good as it gets. In the real world, we have this thing called the internet and search engines. Now I will admit that my wording was slightly off as I was posting from my phone about stori

Yeah, because partially funding the government is the way to operate, just like cooperating with extortionists is always the proper way to behave. It's the people who resist such criminals who should be ashamed of themselves!

If they would have taken up a budget and passed it like they are constitutionally supposed to do, we likely wouldn't be in this situation. So lets not act like it all isn't half assed to start with. Yes, partially funding the government is better then the way it was operating- no, it is

In addition to your comments, "partially funding the government" is a misnomer. The government is what has been legally funded by Congress in a appropriations bill that must originate in the House. Unfunded bureaucratic departments aren't "the government" anymore. They might be "what the government used to do", but hey, things change and the funding ran out.

In two weeks when we have defaulted on the national debt you will forget these trivialities. We will have bigger stuff to worry about, like how to feed your family when dollars are not worth the paper they are printed on.

This is why I place high value on firearms, ammunition, and basic supplies. I'm not exactly a "prepper" but I'm certainly not a fool, either. Bad times can happen any time, and people who understand how to find food and water stand a better chance of dealing with circumstances than those who don't.

I have two daughters, a son on the way, and barring mass extinction of wildlife I'll be able to feed the family. The other unfortunate complications of a true economic collapse are factors I'd rather not consider

I'm happy to broadcast it, despite the risks associated with such a broadcast. I'll gladly support anyone subjected to illegal seizure by any means necessary, and for those who would attempt an amateur grab: try it.

I don't get pissed off at public records being made available to the public. I get pissed off at unreasonable legal requirements that lead to things being entered into the public record in the first place, and I fully support every individual's right to make his/her own decision on whether their ownership and use of firearms should be a matter of public record or not.

People who follow the law in this case wind up unreasonably burdened and subject to information disclosure beyond their control. People who do

Actually, most folks don't. About 34% of American households have a gun.

There was a bump in ownership after Sandy Hook, when gun control proposals were in the news. About three million additional guns were sold. If those guns have the same rate of fatalities as existing guns, it will be equivalent to another Sandy Hook every two months. I suppose that counts as an unintended consequence.

In two weeks when we have defaulted on the national debt you will forget these trivialities. We will have bigger stuff to worry about, like how to feed your family when dollars are not worth the paper they are printed on.

This is why i'm planning to borrow millions of $$ from the bank, and stock up on things like Guns and Ammo,
that won't be devalued by the US default on the national debt.

By the way; in the event of inflation, Real Estate, and commodities such as silver, copper and steel, can be expecte

Despite shutdown US decided to extend military training program for syrian terrorists (err... "rebels") stating that only "moderate rebels" are being trained that is propably yet another of its never ending stream of lies. FOMC is still peddling cheap money to stock markets, so all those Wall Street parasites calling themselves "investors" receive their checks. It's funny as they're just recipients of yet another government giveaway, albeit conceived a noth as instead of directly receiving government money