My mother didn't have enough time to do anything for me ( she was a chronic house cleaner) & I was basically was on my own when it came to getting a ride to the unemployment office to apply for my first job. It was not a safe ride either. Russell a hood from Chicago who was living up the street with a family was good enough to drive me up to St. Paul to the employment office. I took a bunch of tests while he waited for me & then he drove me back home & he skipped out of town because the police wanted to talk to him. I ended up going to my first job interview by myself (took the city bus this time) & got the job. I was a whole 18 years old then.

Anyhow it can go either way in my book. You can do everything for a child & they may not learn a darn thing, or you can do nothing & hopefully they will learn something.

Ummm, It's none of my business but, What happened to Russell the Hood and do you ever think/thank him for what he did for you?

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When I first got out into the workforce, my drama/spanish lit teach pulled me aside and said, "Do you need a job for the summer, I know the EEO coordinator at a hospital up the street, go talk to her....."

I went in and spoke to her and said, "Mr Duran sent me over to talk to you about a job."

She told me that I was the only one from my high school who had come by and I was hired, show up on July 5!

I could have gone to work as a laborer taking bricks off a conveyor belt or as a stockperson in a toy store - my parents both could have easily got me a job, but I was so proud and happy that I did it on my own, I never looked back and made sure that I hustled to keep my job.

I'm not saying don't help your children and advise them. But like LH said there is a spectrum of assistance and some parents (IMO) go too far one way ("Son (or daughter)...you're on your own!") or the other, as in the OP's example.

...
I could have gone to work as a laborer taking bricks off a conveyor belt or as a stockperson in a toy store - my parents both could have easily got me a job, but I was so proud and happy that I did it on my own, I never looked back and made sure that I hustled to keep my job.

That's been my experience too. When is "helping" really not being helpful in the long run? My example: We have a friend who is a single parent of twin girls. When they were children she "helped" them with every task. She had them on a strict schedule of school, homework etc. She set a timer and they had to brush their teeth or brush their hair or do their homework until the timer went off. She had them start their homework over if they made a mistake because she didn't want it to be messy with erasure marks. She said it was her job as a parent to make sure they did not make mistakes.

They grew up to be frightened, insecure, nervous wrecks. They were so afraid of making a mistake that they didn't even know how to think for themselves. We had them to our house for a sleepover when they were 10 or 11 or so. They did not know how to play. They needed us to give them specific instructions on what to do every moment or else they freaked out. We asked them to put on a play for us. They looked at us like deer in the headlights. They asked us what the play should be about. We told them to make it up. More startled stares. Finally, they gave up and said that they couldn't think of anything on their own. I thought their spirits and immagination were crushed and would never recover.

But, there was some determination left in them that their mother hadn't managed to damage. So, they went off to college as far away from their mother as they could get. They made huge, life changing mistakes because they had no experience in making little mistakes and recovering from them. They had no ability to recover from mistakes at all. They did not have the confidence that comes from making mistakes, dealing with them, recovering from them, etc.

They are getting out of college now. They have no relationship with their mother. They blame her for their obsessive/complusive disorders. Their eating/food issues. Their paralyzing fear of trying something new. Their lack of confidence.

I do see glimmers of hope, though. One of the twins has applied to become a police officer. (She is obviously drawn to rules and structure). She gave us the affidavit paperwork to fill out as character witnesses. She said she was not giving it to her mother because she had "helped" enough and made her life a real misery.

This example may seem extreme, but my point is, don't help and save your children from making mistakes. Let them make mistakes as children so that they can learn, recover and grow from them. Don't rob them of the chance to make mistakes and gain self-confidence and self-assurance. Let them have successes on their own -- without your help and interference. That momentary childhood pain could help save them from a lifetime of unhappiness if they become insecure and frightened adults.

I hope that in time the twins will see that their mother did the best she knew how to do.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my Mother (Cathryne) and Father (Donald) for letting me make mistakes, get dirty, screw up, take my punishment and learn from my mistakes. You gave me such a wonderful gift even though I may not have thought so at the time. You showed your confidence in me by letting me fail at times. And because of that, I gained confidence in myself and my abilities. Thank You!

Ask your vet about microchipping. ~ It could have saved Kuhio's life. And it cost Halo hers.Ask your vet about Polycystic kidney disease ~~ Rest in peace WillyLoved by Lisa

And I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my Mother (Cathryne) and Father (Donald) for letting me make mistakes, get dirty, screw up, take my punishment and learn from my mistakes. You gave me such a wonderful gift even though I may not have thought so at the time. You showed your confidence in me by letting me fail at times. And because of that, I gained confidence in myself and my abilities. Thank You!

What a great tribute.

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I remember hearing the old line about 'This is hurting me more than it's going to hurt you......'

I thought, "Yeah right, I am the one getting me arse polished....."

It wasn't until years later that I figured it out.

It hurt my mom that she had to correct my stupidity.

It hurt her because I was a 'product' of her parenting. She had to correct that 'malfunction' because it reflected on her parenting skills and she wasn't going to to let me run about like a little savage.

Last edited by RICHARD; 09-12-2013 at 09:01 PM.
Reason: I type too fast.

Ummm, It's none of my business but, What happened to Russell the Hood and do you ever think/thank him for what he did for you?

---------------------

When I first got out into the workforce, my drama/spanish lit teach pulled me aside and said, "Do you need a job for the summer, I know the EEO coordinator at a hospital up the street, go talk to her....."

I went in and spoke to her and said, "Mr Duran sent me over to talk to you about a job."

She told me that I was the only one from my high school who had come by and I was hired, show up on July 5!

I could have gone to work as a laborer taking bricks off a conveyor belt or as a stockperson in a toy store - my parents both could have easily got me a job, but I was so proud and happy that I did it on my own, I never looked back and made sure that I hustled to keep my job.

I never saw Russell again. Yes, I thanked him. I was grateful Russell gave me a ride up to the unemployment office & back home safely. I never did ask him what he had done to have the police looking for him. I hope he made it back to Chicago safely & life has treated him good because he was good person. I have run into a lot of great people in my life who have helped me along the way & Russell was one of them. I bet your drama/spanish lit teacher has to be one of those great people in your life too.

The frost is on the pumpkin & I've been BOO'D by two pet talk ghosts.
Thank you Fritz & Cassiesmom

"I always felt that when someone introduces you to the outdoors, you come to feel like you owe them something. ‘Cause what they really gave you is a lifetime of memories, and a lifestyle you’ll always love. Of course I suppose the best way to pay them back is to be that person for someone else. "

Maybe part of my opinion comes from my experience with the young kids we work with at preschool. It is very obvious which children have involved parents and which ones don't and it's sad. We get kids whose parents just open the door upstairs and just send them downstairs on their own and we rarely see the parent and usually those are the kids who don't know the beginning of their ABC's or counting or even how to interact.

On the flip side, we do have those parents who hang around way too long and actually end up upsetting the child more than helping them but overall the child is bright and well rounded.

I think the issue we have here is we are being very black and white ... If you help your child you are a helicopter parent who is ruining their spoiled child and if you encourage "do it yourself" then you are neglecting your kids. Neither is true most likely and there is a lot of grey area... And what works depends on the parent but more so depends on the child you have. There is no one size fits all for child rearing and you may think you have the market cornered but faced with a child with different needs or personality... You may be up a creek lol

I think the issue we have here is we are being very black and white ... If you help your child you are a helicopter parent who is ruining their spoiled child and if you encourage "do it yourself" then you are neglecting your kids. Neither is true most likely and there is a lot of grey area... And what works depends on the parent but more so depends on the child you have. There is no one size fits all for child rearing and you may think you have the market cornered but faced with a child with different needs or personality... You may be up a creek lol

I absolutely think there are many levels of grey area! How much help is too much has likely been debated since the dawn of parenthood!

I think the issue we have here is we are being very black and white ... If you help your child you are a helicopter parent who is ruining their spoiled child and if you encourage "do it yourself" then you are neglecting your kids. Neither is true most likely and there is a lot of grey area... And what works depends on the parent but more so depends on the child you have. There is no one size fits all for child rearing and you may think you have the market cornered but faced with a child with different needs or personality... You may be up a creek lol

Black and white? Huh???????

Funny, I've seen many shades of gray mentioned here.

The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.