Comments on: Springtime Storylines: Should Athletics' fans be freaking out about the bullpen yet?http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/
Baseball. Baseball. And then a bit more baseball.Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:09:05 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: Melohttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38401
Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:45:38 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38401There are operating costs for teams that go well beyond team payroll. It’s kind of funny that you mentioned Forbes as a source because they have the A’s listed as #26 in revenue and value among all the MLB teams. It sounds to me like the A’s could more than double their revenue if they moved to San Jose with a new stadium. Increased revenue means a higher team payroll, sometimes.
]]>By: scatterbrianhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38400
Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:38:57 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38400The problem is that the 26,000 average in 2005 was 8th in the AL. In 2006, when the A’s won 93 games and went to the playoffs for the fifth time in seven years, the numbers dropped to 24,400 avg. and 12th in attendance. Then three years of losing (which was 76, 75, and 75 wins–losing records yes, but not exactly doormats) results in fewer fans going to games. Meanwhile, teams like the Royals and the Pirates have been comparable attendance-wise yet have a long recent tradition of sucking, while the A’s have had recent sustained success. It seems A’s fans have short memories.
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As for the payroll, I’d like to see the team invest in players too, but there haven’t been many that a) fit the teams needs, and b) fit into a realistic budget. Let’s look at free agents the last two years.
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In the 2007 off-season the big signings were Torii Hunter (5/$90M), Aaron Rowand (5/$60M), Andruw Jones (2/$36.2M), Carlos Silva (4/$48M), Francisco Cordero (4/$46M), Jose Guillen (3/$36M), Luis Castillo (4/$25M).
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2008 had Mark Teixeira (8/$180M), CC Sabathia (7/$161M), AJ Burnett (5/$82.5M), Derek Lowe (4/$60M), Francisco Rodriguez (3/$37M), Oliver Perez (3/$36M), Raul Ibanez (3/$31.5M), Milton Bradley (3/$30M), Adam Dunn (2/$20M), Edgar Renteria (2/$18.5M).
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This year was Matt Holliday (7/$120M), John Lackey (5/$82.5M), Jason Bay (4/$66M), Chone Figgins (4/$36M), Randy Wolf (3/$29.75M), Placido Polanco (3/$18M), Joel Piniero (2/$16M).
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I left out Rafael Furcal (3/$30M), Randy Johnson (1/$8M), Adrian Beltre (1/$10M), Marco Scutaro (2/$12.5M) and Aroldis Chapman (6/$30.25), all of whom had serious offers from the A’s that were rejected. This is why the A’s overspent to land Ben Sheets.
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The A’s could not afford Teixeira or Sabathia, so they aren’t useful for this discussion. But among the rest, many of which are bad contracts, there’s not one player/contract I wish the A’s signed except for Figgins and possibly Dunn. And they’ve clearly made efforts to sign free agents, it just hasn’t happened.
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Personally, I prefer the A’s not spend money at all as opposed to spending it on bad players. Unfortunately there are fans who equate payroll with front-office commitment.
]]>By: APBA Guyhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38399
Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:59:21 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38399The fact is the A’s attendance as recently as 2005 averaged 26,000 fans, more than 50% above last year’s attendance which was 17,000 the same as 1999. That’s what 3 years of losing does, when added to Wolfe’s incessant complaining about Oakland, the venue, etc.
Investigate the revenue numbers for a minute. Overall revenue was
$ 146M in 2007 (Forbes)with payroll of $ 80M. By 2009 payroll DROPPED to $ 56M but revenue had RISEN to $ 160M (Forbes) due to higher ticket, parking and concession prices plus greater revenue sharing income.
Where is the money going? It isn’t to payroll and players. It isn’t to park improvements. That’s all under ownership control. That’s my point.
]]>By: Joey Bhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38398
Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:45 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38398“And this isn’t a recent issue; even when the team was killing it in the early part of the decade, the A’s attendance remained middle of the pack.”
Yup. They’ll always be inequities, since some cities are richer than others, but I’m nor overly sympathetic when fans won’t attend games, whatever the reason. The A’s averaged 89 wins per year for the past decade, 1st four times, and a wildcard once. That’s about as successful as any team not named the NYY or RS.
You can only get what you pay for. Asking the A’s to increase the payroll is like asking a pub that you never go into that they should stock your favorite champagne.
]]>By: Joey Bhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38397
Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:55:43 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38397“Given that there remains a much stronger correlation between homers and scoring and, well, whatever small ball is and scoring, these stories are overstated.”
I never quite got these comparisons. You can play small ball and still have Bay in your lineup, or you can play long ball and still have Ellsbury in your lineup. The way to win is to optimize the individual skills of each player.
“Prediction:Fourth place, AL West. But if it’s any consolation, I think the Athletics will be the best last place team in baseball.”
Still no respect for the Mets? Mets should have a better 4th place record by 5 games (assuming you agree the Mets will beat out the Nats).
]]>By: Old Gatorhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38396
Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:01:25 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38396Funny but we ask ourselves the inverse of that question down here in Macondo all the time. The park is nice, if a bit exposed to the elements – and we have elements – but there’s plenty of money here (not per capita so much, but the high rate of new immigration into Macondo and utter lack of manufacturing jobs pulls the average way down), while the Feesh have one of the highest per capita television and radio audiences of any team in the league. But we hate our ownership and love to spite it so we stay home a lot.
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I’m not sure I grasp how the territory issue plays out in San Francisco, but then a lot of things are strange in the Bay area anyway – you know, like those people out there are really part fish like the residents of Innsmouth in Arkham Parish or the humanoid aliens in The Santaroga Barrier. It can’t just be from neuroses from sitting on a fault network. I mean, if you look at a map San Jose is three or four times as far from The City as Oakland is. And you will notice that just as many cars can use a six lane highway to cross level ground as they can to cross a bay. If the As aren’t sucking fans from the Giants from close enough to be seen with good binoculars, how are they going to impact them from across the curvature of the Earth?
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Having said that, I can’t deny I’d love to see what Billy Beane would do if they filled his playpen with real money.
]]>By: scatterbrianhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38395
Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:45:36 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38395I understand what frustration, but the park is a dump and the city is poor, and fans don’t show up. How is that Wolff’s fault?
]]>By: scatterbrianhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38394
Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:23:58 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38394“When that happens, the last six people in the city of Oakland who actually care about the A’s will abandon the team.”
Careful Craig, those six people are an extremely thin-skinned group. There was a post today on Athletics Nation that got deleted because it was calling out A’s fans for their lack of attendance. I believe they call it baiting at AN, and their over-zealous mods love deleting things like this, which is just silly. Sure the fans on AN are obviously more passionate than most, and even though the details weren’t exactly correct, the writer makes a good point: if more fans went to see the A’s, they’d have more money to spend on the on-field product. And this isn’t a recent issue; even when the team was killing it in the early part of the decade, the A’s attendance remained middle of the pack.
]]>By: APBA Guyhttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38393
Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:47:45 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38393I wonder if Lew Wolfe will be putting his tarp on the lower deck this year.
Every team has its rosy scenario coming out of Spring, but the A’s slide into irrelevance has coincided with the arrival of the current ownership group. We don’t know the real financial situation, but from the outside the owner’s behavior reminds me of the movie Major League: let’s disparage the ballpark, disparage the city and then cry poor when no one shows up so we can justify moving the team.
For me it’s the same distance to San Jose as it is to Oakland. And the Mausoleum is a dump compared to AT&T, etc. But when the sun’s out, and the sky is blue, the field is a damn beautiful sight. It’s never been the stadium that’s kept me away. It’s the owners who keep jacking the price every year while fielding a AAA team. We’ve had the same payroll as the Twins (until this year), and I haven’t seen anyone lately in an A’s uniform who resembles Joe Mauer, or Jason Kubel at least.
Where is the money going really?
]]>By: Melohttp://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/29/springtime-storylines-should-athletics-fans-be-freaking-out-about-the-bullpen-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-38392
Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:32:10 +0000http://localhost/wp/nbchbt/?p=4926#comment-38392Since the Athletics have been averaging 75 wins a season over the past three years and haven’t improved for 2010, what difference does it make. The price of beer, hotdogs, and admission seem more important.
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