This is not mean't to sound like a ledge post, and I'm admittingly a novice, but just watching the last two games with us getting dominated by the Magic and the Whiz in the inside, we're not winning the NBA Title with the current roster. Hate saying it, but without a Dominant Big, we're sort of stuck behind Boston and Orlando. This isn't a diss towards Ben, Z or Andy as I think all three are great, but they just cannot get it done against the Dwight Howard, Leon Powe or Garnett.

My question is there anyway we can make a move in 2009-2010 for a player that fits that mold?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Triple-S wrote:This is not mean't to sound like a ledge post, and I'm admittingly a novice, but just watching the last two games with us getting dominated by the Magic and the Whiz in the inside, we're not winning the NBA Title with the current roster. Hate saying it, but without a Dominant Big, we're sort of stuck behind Boston and Orlando. This isn't a diss towards Ben, Z or Andy as I think all three are great, but they just cannot get it done against the Dwight Howard, Leon Powe or Garnett.

My question is there anyway we can make a move in 2009-2010 for a player that fits that mold?

No team is flawless, we can certainly win a title this year and if we aren't the favorite we should be next in line. We played like absolute dogshit tonight, so bad in fact I quit even watching, is the game even over? We can beat Orlando, Boston, and LA in a series... but I certainly don't think it is a sure thing.

Bill the Butcher wrote:LOL, I think the Cavs are one great big man away from being virtually invincible. Can we agree on that?

We're dominant right now. You cannot deny that. Our 61-15 record isn't a joke. Today's game was a joke. LOL. Boy o boy, yes it was.

Have to get a big at some point. I agree we'd be pretty damn close to unbeatable if we can get that, but as of now, we're gonna have trouble handling the likes of ORL and LAL (and probably Boston and Houston if it comes to that) without one. The only equalizer could be homecourt advantage, which now seems imperative if we want to win a title.

If by some chance we get Amare or Bosh (I doubt it happens) this team is freakin invincible. Man, that'd be amazing...I wonder what is in store for us this offseason. I'd like to think Ferry will do SOMETHING even coming off a 60+ win season, it's LeBron's final year and he has to put all the money in to make sure LBJ has no reason to leave because the team is not only stacked for present but for the future too.

The Wiz won because the Cavs got bored and decided to try to win the game by hitting 3s - and the Wiz used it as their Super Bowl. The Magic won because the Cavs got in at 4 a.m., the Magic wanted to make a point, and they played a game that you can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE they will NEVER. EVER. EEEEEEE-VER. repeat. It was their Perfect Game and they hit the Cavs at the right moment for them.

But, the Celtics are hurting beyond Garnett, the Magic haven't proven they can win playoff series consistently, and the Lakers have a Hell of a gauntlet to run just to get to the Finals -- you do realize that if the Suns were in the East they'd be pushing to be the 4 seed, right? -- and the Cavs have the MVP, will have motivation, and will at the very least have home court through the Eastern finals if not longer.

61-15 is as dominant as you're going to get in the regular season, and the home court will be big, but the Cavs have shown in the last three seasons they know how to turn it up several notches, especially on defense. The Magic are gonna be tough but they still haven't shown they can play that kind of defensive-minded basketball (and teams that rely on jump shooting -- especially long-range jump shooting like the Magic does -- generally don't do as well come playoff time).

So again, OFF. THE. LEDGE. NOW. It's a whole different game in three weeks, and the Cavs can play that game.

Somehow ... Someway ... Give us JUST ONE VICTORY ... and we're on our way!

The Wiz won because the Cavs got bored and decided to try to win the game by hitting 3s - and the Wiz used it as their Super Bowl. The Magic won because the Cavs got in at 4 a.m., the Magic wanted to make a point, and they played a game that you can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE they will NEVER. EVER. EEEEEEE-VER. repeat. It was their Perfect Game and they hit the Cavs at the right moment for them.

But, the Celtics are hurting beyond Garnett, the Magic haven't proven they can win playoff series consistently, and the Lakers have a Hell of a gauntlet to run just to get to the Finals -- you do realize that if the Suns were in the East they'd be pushing to be the 4 seed, right? -- and the Cavs have the MVP, will have motivation, and will at the very least have home court through the Eastern finals if not longer.

61-15 is as dominant as you're going to get in the regular season, and the home court will be big, but the Cavs have shown in the last three seasons they know how to turn it up several notches, especially on defense. The Magic are gonna be tough but they still haven't shown they can play that kind of defensive-minded basketball (and teams that rely on jump shooting -- especially long-range jump shooting like the Magic does -- generally don't do as well come playoff time).

So again, OFF. THE. LEDGE. NOW. It's a whole different game in three weeks, and the Cavs can play that game.

I don't see much ledging going on here. Too say we need to shore up the interior (see our record vs. ORL, Boston, LAL, and Houston) or that we match up poorly with Orlando isn't ledging, its just the reality of the situation. This was evident many times during the 13 game win streak, but the Cavs overcame it with stellar play by LeBron and the team as a whole in the clutch.

It certainly doesn't mean we can't win the title, and I fully expect us to be very focused come playoff time.

Only when we are lazy. They got over confident... and now got their comeuppance. They will be a different team on Sunday and for sure when the playoffs start.

I expect this team to increase the amount they drive to the basket by 300% come playoff time. If they do so they will pencil in the Finals If they try to jumpshoot their way there....may get there, may not.

buckeye319 wrote:I don't see much ledging going on here. Too say we need to shore up the interior (see our record vs. ORL, Boston, LAL, and Houston) or that we match up poorly with Orlando isn't ledging, its just the reality of the situation. This was evident many times during the 13 game win streak, but the Cavs overcame it with stellar play by LeBron and the team as a whole in the clutch.

It certainly doesn't mean we can't win the title, and I fully expect us to be very focused come playoff time.

No, it's ledging. NBA playoff history tells you that. The Celtics are old and hurting. The Lakers won't have an easy series, even against an 8. And the Magic simply haven't shown they can run the playoff gauntlet -- and the NBA is the one league where it's all but impossible to win a title without losing several times in the playoffs first. (You could argue the Celtics did that, but only because Garnett/Pierce/Allen did their losing in the playoffs before they got to Boston - they still went through that baptism).

The Magic are 1-2 in playoff series the last two years. The Cavs are 4-2. I'll take the team with the proven record and the young superstar over the unproven team with the younger (by playoff record) superstar in any playoff -- IF, that is, the Magic make it that far. (And the Cavs, too, of course.)

Somehow ... Someway ... Give us JUST ONE VICTORY ... and we're on our way!

buckeye319 wrote:I don't see much ledging going on here. Too say we need to shore up the interior (see our record vs. ORL, Boston, LAL, and Houston) or that we match up poorly with Orlando isn't ledging, its just the reality of the situation. This was evident many times during the 13 game win streak, but the Cavs overcame it with stellar play by LeBron and the team as a whole in the clutch.

It certainly doesn't mean we can't win the title, and I fully expect us to be very focused come playoff time.

No, it's ledging. NBA playoff history tells you that. The Celtics are old and hurting. The Lakers won't have an easy series, even against an 8. And the Magic simply haven't shown they can run the playoff gauntlet -- and the NBA is the one league where it's all but impossible to win a title without losing several times in the playoffs first. (You could argue the Celtics did that, but only because Garnett/Pierce/Allen did their losing in the playoffs before they got to Boston - they still went through that baptism).

The Magic are 1-2 in playoff series the last two years. The Cavs are 4-2. I'll take the team with the proven record and the young superstar over the unproven team with the younger (by playoff record) superstar in any playoff -- IF, that is, the Magic make it that far. (And the Cavs, too, of course.)

Well of course, no team is going to have an easy series - It's the NBA playoffs. I just don't see how discussing a couple shortcomings of the Cavs is ledging, but whatever.

I thought we were so good we were taking fake pictures before the game and just rolling opponents because we needed to loosen up?

This team has been flawed all year. Joe helped a little, but that flaw is still very real. I don't care how much fun they have, they have a lot of work to do.

Damn, what is with the harboring of the picture. I'm sorry I defended it, they need to knock it off now. In the words of Denny Green (paraphrased) "this team is, who we thought they were." I was hoping we'd get killed by 60 tonight, b/c tonight was a wake up call. It don't matter when you're getting your asses handed to you and I think they needed to feel that. Especially after loafing around last night, then tying it at 86, only to have another team run away on them. Two nights in a row that should inspire humility (as well as flat pissing them off) could pay dividends in the playoffs.

Last edited by OSU819903 on Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

I thought we were so good we were taking fake pictures before the game and just rolling opponents because we needed to loosen up?

This team has been flawed all year. Joe helped a little, but that flaw is still very real. I don't care how much fun they have, they have a lot of work to do.

I honestly thought maybe, maybe we were good enough this year. I admit to overlooking the flaws a bit, but I did see them, but the flaws don't matter when you get the "W".

The Big losses I've seen have come at the hands of Houston, LA, Boston and O-Town, all of which have a All-Star Caliber big man and just have pretty much dominated the paint.

Unless Roker isn't wanting to show his cards right now, and we just show up and dominate in the playoffs, we are going to have to make a play to get that big man in some way, shape or form. We are going to have to make a move this offseason to get Bosh or someone of his caliber in order to avoid June, 2010 as a time that would live in Cleveland sports infamy.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Having flaws does not equate to not good enough to win the whole thing.

Every team in the L has flaws. The Lakers cant even seem to beat the Bobcats, a team im confident we would roast in the playoffs. Shit happens.

I agree that we shoot too many jumpers. I also think things will change a bit when you get into a 7 game series, and can gameplan for one team. This team, this coach has always shown an ability to play above their heads in crunch time. Well this year, we are one of thebig dogs. Lets see what happens.

We are beatable enough that winning a title isnt a foregone conclusion. We are good enough that winning one wouldn't be a big surprise at all. Just like the Lakeshow, The C's and the Spurs. (Still dont see Orlando as a championship team...they gotta prove it to me when it counts.)

It used to be that around this time, the team would have ALOT less wins, and we would go into the playoffs hopeful, just knowing that somehow, some way LeBron would help take us to where we wanted to go. If only we had a supporting cast in place...

Now, the pieces are there. Whether we win the title or not, this is a championship level team. Moreso than any team in the LeBron era. Yet I see alot of that hope replaced with pessimism when the Cavs take a loss. When we were the underdogs, we believed that a miracle was possible. Now when we are the favorites, our faith seems to waver much more easily. Life as a Cleveland fan I guess?

alexp wrote:Having flaws does not equate to not good enough to win the whole thing.

Every team in the L has flaws. The Lakers cant even seem to beat the Bobcats, a team im confident we would roast in the playoffs. Shit happens.

I agree that we shoot too many jumpers. I also think things will change a bit when you get into a 7 game series, and can gameplan for one team. This team, this coach has always shown an ability to play above their heads in crunch time. Well this year, we are one of thebig dogs. Lets see what happens.

We are beatable enough that winning a title isnt a foregone conclusion. We are good enough that winning one wouldn't be a big surprise at all. Just like the Lakeshow, The C's and the Spurs. (Still dont see Orlando as a championship team...they gotta prove it to me when it counts.)

It used to be that around this time, the team would have ALOT less wins, and we would go into the playoffs hopeful, just knowing that somehow, some way LeBron would help take us to where we wanted to go. If only we had a supporting cast in place...

Now, the pieces are there. Whether we win the title or not, this is a championship level team. Moreso than any team in the LeBron era. Yet I see alot of that hope replaced with pessimism when the Cavs take a loss. When we were the underdogs, we believed that a miracle was possible. Now when we are the favorites, our faith seems to waver much more easily. Life as a Cleveland fan I guess?

To say nothing of those (and I'm not saying anyone on this string - but if you feel guilty, you feel guilty) who are now willing to throw away a season's worth of games on the performance of one abnormal game on both sides.

I'll repeat what I posted on the string during the game: the Cavs will NEVER play a game that bad again, and the Magic will NEVER play a game that well again. That was the perfect storm for the Magic -- they played at their absolute best and hit the Cavs at their absolute worst. Losing hope on the basis of something like that is just dumb.

Somehow ... Someway ... Give us JUST ONE VICTORY ... and we're on our way!

Typical, somebody says he we have a flaw and they get slammed with "stop ledging" JFC.

JB was so damn right.

Anyway Orlando is a legit concern. They play as good a D as we do most often, and they match up against us well and really D up on us well.

Maybe getting in @ 4am contributed to losing by 75 pts but make no mistake about it Orlando can ball with us. Up until last night I was very confident we could take them in 6 or 7 games, now I am a bit worried that if they happen to steal one early we go down. I've watched our last 5 games v them this past week and there is a very consistent theme/problem. It starts with the match up but also MB gets out coached by Ron in many of the head to heads and basically Orlando isn't afraid of us.

I hope Ben really makes the difference but the previous game he has been on the floor v Orlando he hasn't made that significant of one.

[fingers crossed]

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Tha Cavs are pretty fucking good. No team is truly dominant this season. At least not in the Chicago Bulls sense. But I do believe we can and will win the championship this year. It's going to be a long road. Full of ups and downs, highs and lows. But hey, this is Cleveland. You KNOW it won't be easy. And it won't be for the faint of heart.

Go Cavs!!!

"If I sell a lil' crack, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I die in Iraq, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I take you fo granted, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

jamesownsdet wrote:Tha Cavs are pretty fucking good. No team is truly dominant this season. At least not in the Chicago Bulls sense. But I do believe we can and will win the championship this year. It's going to be a long road. Full of ups and downs, highs and lows. But hey, this is Cleveland. You KNOW it won't be easy. And it won't be for the faint of heart.

Go Cavs!!!

Agreed. Two games does not a season make. Let's see what they bring tomorrow against the Spurs. Play-offs are a different ballgame and they still have LeBron.

i'm completely fine with all the pre-game picture taking, and the little half court horse games with superman, but you can't do that shit and then go out and get waxed. believe me i've learned, when your winning you ca fuck around a whole lot, but when you get embarrassed like that 2 nights in a row, its time to buckle down and focus. no more pre-game jerking off till the playoffs

lets go Cavs!

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

jordan kramer wrote:i'm completely fine with all the pre-game picture taking, and the little half court horse games with superman, but you can't do that shit and then go out and get waxed. believe me i've learned, when your winning you ca fuck around a whole lot, but when you get embarrassed like that 2 nights in a row, its time to buckle down and focus. no more pre-game jerking off till the playoffs

lets go Cavs!

To be honest I hope they don't do all that stupid picture shit during the playoffs. Now that they've lost 2 straight they need to come up with a new routine. Preferable just high fivng and taking the court and whoopin asses.

"If I sell a lil' crack, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I die in Iraq, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

If I take you fo granted, aint nuthin to it, gangsta rap made me do it...

Chris wrote:If by some chance we get Amare or Bosh (I doubt it happens) this team is freakin invincible. Man, that'd be amazing...I wonder what is in store for us this offseason. I'd like to think Ferry will do SOMETHING even coming off a 60+ win season, it's LeBron's final year and he has to put all the money in to make sure LBJ has no reason to leave because the team is not only stacked for present but for the future too.

Bosh or Amare is very unlikely. Acquiring O'Neil from Phoenix this off season is alot closer to reality and somewhat likely to happen. If it happens and the Big Diesel plays as well next year as he has this year, I think the Cavs would be a dominate team maybe looking at 70 wins.

Chris wrote:If by some chance we get Amare or Bosh (I doubt it happens) this team is freakin invincible. Man, that'd be amazing...I wonder what is in store for us this offseason. I'd like to think Ferry will do SOMETHING even coming off a 60+ win season, it's LeBron's final year and he has to put all the money in to make sure LBJ has no reason to leave because the team is not only stacked for present but for the future too.

Bosh or Amare is very unlikely. Acquiring O'Neil from Phoenix this off season is alot closer to reality and somewhat likely to happen. If it happens and the Big Diesel plays as well next year as he has this year, I think the Cavs would be a dominate team maybe looking at 70 wins.

So acquire more 35+ year old guys? That's is pretty much the opposite of what we want to do.

Chris wrote:If by some chance we get Amare or Bosh (I doubt it happens) this team is freakin invincible. Man, that'd be amazing...I wonder what is in store for us this offseason. I'd like to think Ferry will do SOMETHING even coming off a 60+ win season, it's LeBron's final year and he has to put all the money in to make sure LBJ has no reason to leave because the team is not only stacked for present but for the future too.

Bosh or Amare is very unlikely. Acquiring O'Neil from Phoenix this off season is alot closer to reality and somewhat likely to happen. If it happens and the Big Diesel plays as well next year as he has this year, I think the Cavs would be a dominate team maybe looking at 70 wins.

So acquire more 35+ year old guys? That's is pretty much the opposite of what we want to do.

No thanks.

It's a rental in the best sense: Shaq has a mega-expiring contract and will undoubtedly retire after next year, meaning the Cavs would then have LeBron and the ability to sign someone to replace Shaq at Shaq-like money.

Think Amare or Bosh would like to make as much as Shaq while playing for LeBron?

Somehow ... Someway ... Give us JUST ONE VICTORY ... and we're on our way!

Phoenix wanted to move Shaq for expiring deals this year to save money next year. Why do they want to move Shaq next year when it is literally impossible for them to save any significant money doing so?

Why do we think Shaq will be healthy if he leaves the desert and the Suns trainers?

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Chris wrote:If by some chance we get Amare or Bosh (I doubt it happens) this team is freakin invincible. Man, that'd be amazing...I wonder what is in store for us this offseason. I'd like to think Ferry will do SOMETHING even coming off a 60+ win season, it's LeBron's final year and he has to put all the money in to make sure LBJ has no reason to leave because the team is not only stacked for present but for the future too.

Bosh or Amare is very unlikely. Acquiring O'Neil from Phoenix this off season is alot closer to reality and somewhat likely to happen. If it happens and the Big Diesel plays as well next year as he has this year, I think the Cavs would be a dominate team maybe looking at 70 wins.

So acquire more 35+ year old guys? That's is pretty much the opposite of what we want to do.

No thanks.

It's a rental in the best sense: Shaq has a mega-expiring contract and will undoubtedly retire after next year, meaning the Cavs would then have LeBron and the ability to sign someone to replace Shaq at Shaq-like money.

Think Amare or Bosh would like to make as much as Shaq while playing for LeBron?

JB wrote:The front line has some depth and matchup issues that keep us from being the 1985 Western Conference all star team, but I think we're nothing more than a day off from being "dominant", Homie.

What if in the playoffs were weretho put Bron defesnively on Howard? Think about it hard before you kneejerk LyAO at me.

I've thought about that, even if LeBron stepped up and made a difference on Howard IMO the amount of energy it would take from LeBron to do so wouldn't be worth it. That would be a very draining match up for James.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

JB wrote:The front line has some depth and matchup issues that keep us from being the 1985 Western Conference all star team, but I think we're nothing more than a day off from being "dominant", Homie.

What if in the playoffs were weretho put Bron defesnively on Howard? Think about it hard before you kneejerk LyAO at me.

I've thought about that, even if LeBron stepped up and made a difference on Howard IMO the amount of energy it would take from LeBron to do so wouldn't be worth it. That would be a very draining match up for James.

And that's the matchup I'm actually scared the most of, for that exact reason. Howard is a beast, and if given the choice to have anybody in the league to put on our roster w/lebron at this very moment, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Boston granted is no picnic, but if we get home court and play them in the ECF we can maybe get it in 7.

Unless Roker has a plan to beat the Magic that he's hidden in Andy's hair, I'm pretty terrified of them at the moment.

Again, I'm praying to God I'm wrong, and this thread gets bumped up after game X of the ECF, when we clinch our spot, and you guys have a good laugh at me. I'd much rather be happy than right.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

JB wrote:The front line has some depth and matchup issues that keep us from being the 1985 Western Conference all star team, but I think we're nothing more than a day off from being "dominant", Homie.

What if in the playoffs were weretho put Bron defesnively on Howard? Think about it hard before you kneejerk LyAO at me.

I've thought about that, even if LeBron stepped up and made a difference on Howard IMO the amount of energy it would take from LeBron to do so wouldn't be worth it. That would be a very draining match up for James.

And that's the matchup I'm actually scared the most of, for that exact reason. Howard is a beast, and if given the choice to have anybody in the league to put on our roster w/lebron at this very moment, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Boston granted is no picnic, but if we get home court and play them in the ECF we can maybe get it in 7.

Unless Roker has a plan to beat the Magic that he's hidden in Andy's hair, I'm pretty terrified of them at the moment.

Again, I'm praying to God I'm wrong, and this thread gets bumped up after game X of the ECF, when we clinch our spot, and you guys have a good laugh at me. I'd much rather be happy than right.

Since the game was a MFin' joke, I wanted to keep watching Howard closely.

You know, he's neither a step out and pop center, nor is he a "I'm getting you on my hip and gonna back you in with my big booty and make my move on the block." he's just different... He's athletic. he moves inside. He plays like a college center in some ways to me.

I looked at them together and he's not that much taller than Bron. He's strong, but is he stroner than Bron? Is Atlas? Lord knows he can't me MORE athletic.

I get the don't expend all your effort on D argument, but who else matches up on howard? He's too quick for Ben, too strong for andy, and Z is a 2 guard.

The relevant snippet: "David Thorpe was recently in Chicago, catching up with a lot of NBA players. He asked them who they thought was the strongest player in the league. Thorpe voted for Craig Smith. One guy said Dwight Howard. Everybody else said LeBron James. A wing player!"

So yeah, LeBron is strong enough.

We can live with Dwight having a game like he did last time. The key is holding Lewis and Hedo in check at the 3 point line and not letting their size bother us on defense.

I just hope LeBron plays against the Magic like he does because he realizes the game doesn't matter so much in the regular season and there is no reason to drive at Dwight. If he is scared to go to the hole in the playoffs against them, we are in trouble.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

aoxo1 wrote:The problem with LeBron on Howard, which he could do, (in addition to DU's point about him getting worn out) is that he is really the only guy on the team that can guard Hedo or Lewis.

That's the question to ask in trying to defend the Magic: do the Cavs shut down Howard and then work on the perimeter guys or work on the perimeter guys and make Howard go 30/20 each night. Given the horrific height advantage their perimeter guys have (Rashard, Hedo and the annoying-to-the-Cavs Courtney Lee), I think that would determine the best way to use LeBron.

My hunch: play a zone, make them work for the 3, and force Howard put up LeBron-esque numbers each game. In a 7-game series with critical games on the road and Howard not yet playoff-hardened (not to mention his free throw issues), I don't know if he can pull it off. I know LeBron could if the situation were reversed.

Somehow ... Someway ... Give us JUST ONE VICTORY ... and we're on our way!