Wild Nature,
outside commercial civilization,
runs on gift economy
("freely give, freely receive").
Thus it is balanced. Commercial civilization runs on thought of credit and debt ("knowledge of good & evil").
Thus it is imbalanced.
What nation can balance
its own budget or environment?
Gift Economy is Faith, Grace, Love
- the core message of every religion.
The proof is inside you:
Wild Nature is your True Nature,
crucified by commercial civilization.

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Thursday, August 12, 2010

Over the Rockies

We made it back to Moab from our little Colorado excursion.

(I've poached the photos from Roy's blog, since I don't have a camera)

Old Friends and Fam

Mark Sundeen took Roy and me to my brother Doug's mountain cabin in Conifer, Colorado, where we stayed a couple nights (That's when I wrote the last blog post). Then Mark took us to Louiseville, outside Boulder, where we had dinner at the house of my old friends, Tim, Sherry, and their son Daniel. My old friend Joan showed up with her 2 daughters, Charya and Maitri, and an old acquaintance, Bruce. It was good going over old times, but also kind of emotional, talking about my little Mount Evans escapade (see last blog post; Joan had been my room-mate at the time).

Roy and I then went back with Joan and her kids to Thornton (suburb of Denver) and stayed with them and her husband, Sokha, for a week or so. Then Sokha took us out to Arvada to train-hop.

Snitching on Hobos

We spent the first night under a bridge, and the

trains kept stopping in the wrong direction. The next day we walked westward to where the trains went by an opulent neighborhood (which is unusual). Rainy storm clouds were gathering, but there happened to be a horse trailer for shelter right by the tracks and we camped the 2nd

night there. Again, no trains were stopping in the westward direction so we finally decided to walk out to hitch-hike. Funny, I kept thinking

in the back of my mind how things always work out when we're on the

verge of giving up, that a train would stop right as we were walking

away. Sure enough, it did! We got excited and overconfident and loud.

We hopped into an empty scrap car, but a resident of one of the McMansions spotted us, came out with his cell phone, yelling out to us from his back yard. I was feeling attached to our car so wanted to

just lay low and hope for the best, but Roy thought we should get out and

hide in the bushes. We finally did. But another train came eastward

and slowed way down, blocking our way to the westward train. That got me a bit worried we wouldn't be able to get on if we didn't do it now, so we did. Roy was still worried about cops coming, but I, Mr

Over-confident, told him we shouldn't worry so much, that I hadn't

gotten caught by cops in 10 years of train-hopping. But...duh,..the cops came, and they knew exactly what car we were hiding in, and cited us. Totally avoidable. Roy was right. So we ended up hitching out.

I later called up the court to see if I could work out community service and

avoid court. They told me they thought it would be possible, to call back in September, and I could probably write out a plea thingy.

Family and Teeth

We hitch-hiked to to my parents' in Fruita, Colorado, where we stayed almost a week. Roy and my parents got along splendidly. I think my parents fell in love with Roy.

My parents also got me hooked up with an old friend of our family's, Don Adams, a retired dentist who goes to their church, and he fixed up my teeth for free! He has been doing free dentistry for homeless people for years, as well as doing mission trips to Peru and Siberia to do free dental work. He's a quiet, gentle man, and you'd never know all that he does for people - he never talks about it. I didn't want to ask him to do my teeth, but my parents let the cat out of the bag. I feel so grateful.

We had pretty much gourmet dinners every evening at my parents' - most all bargain food (3 for the price of none) from the supermarket "specialty section". The last evening there, my brother Ron, my nephews, Kyle and Wayne, with Wayne's wife, Lila, joined us for a nice dinner.

It feels good being back in Moab. We're here just in time for Ramadan. Carolyn and John and I decided to celebrate it this month.

I am very interested in cob housing!!!!! If you could send me some info on where to find information on that i would be ever so gratefull. i am very excited about this because since i was a child i have wanted to get away from money issues and pack needed items and leave but i was always toemail me sara.near@muskegoncc.edu

Hi Michael, tips for getting food from dumpsters: medium to small sized grocery stores are best and so is after hours, like 9-12 PM. Posh markets often times throw away the most, but you can find heaps of food even from mom and pop shops. Restaurants are usually no good. If you're into pizza sometimes you can get pizza from the chain stores like Domino's, Pizza Hut, Papa John's etc.

I'm guessing you got cited by the Arvada PD, or as we refer to them as "the Hitler youth" here in the Denver metro. I havn't hopped a train in 33yrs. man, does that bring back memories. I'll be passing through Moab wednesday, hope to see you on my way to Hurrah pass. If some guy in a white Ford pick-up pulls over in front of you don't worry it's just a fellow vagabond. Cheers,

Dick, I should be at Free Meal at noon outdoors on Center Street between the library & courthouse. Yup, astonishing how humorless those cops were. It seems we should've been the ones so miserable...and... ...Bentonio, I s'pose train-hopping wouldn't be such grand fun if there weren't the risk of being cited.

Michael, happy diving! Speaking of which, The very day after you commented about 2001 Space Odyssey I was wondering about it and "coincidentally" found the book in a dumpster. I hadn't seen the movie since a kid.

Hi Suelo,Doesn't seem so far-fetched to me that the Blessed serendipitous thoughts and discovery of the book are a kind of vapor exchange of information/energy/matter from a parallel universe. The sentients on the other side really want us to understand and succeed. You seem better connected than anyone I know to this exchange - a powerful example clearing away distractions that weed and test us.

Here's a refinement of the 2001 analogy:http://theperplexity.blogspot.com/2010/08/bible-and-big-black-monolith.html

I have been spending a lot of time in the wilderness. Over 3000 miles of hiking in it over the last couple of years. I've come to the conclusion that you are on to something. I've been able to see that every single thing in our regular lives, every single need we have as human organisms, has been coopted to move money from the bottom to the top and the result is impending environmental collapse and suffering for most people.

There's a whole other world out there and it works perfectly without money, without anyone taking more than they need. Whenever I've plugged myself into it as much as I'm possible, I've been the happiest I've ever been.

I have not been a part of that perfect system, only a witness to it. Like you I still live as part of modern civilization, a bit more within it than you living on its edges. You scavenge off its wastes. I run away from it into the wilderness whenever I can. We're on the edges of where we as human living organisms belong, but not really there yet. The money system has to die before we can return to being human living beings in an ecological niche, free and happy as we were intended by creation.

So thank you for putting your words out there. They ring true for me. The time I spend in the wilderness clears my mind enough that I can see plain as day the things you write just by looking around me.

Piper: great to hear these thoughts. It's really inspiring to see some talk about the need for there to be more to life than just the 9-5 rat race. Life free of material pursuits is what I consider to be true freedom. Good luck on your journey!

Thanks amigos. Piper, I've been reading some of your blog. Beautiful writing, & you make me smile wide, thanks. I toy with the idea of just walking the PC or Appalachian trails moneyless like Peace Pilgrim did.

Judging from your article on the Hazda tribe, I'm guessing you've read Jared Diamond's article 'The worst mistake in the history of the human race'? (Note to others: it's essentially a critique of agriculture, and an insight into hunter-gatherer lifestyles.)One thing that concerns me when reading these sort of debates is the question of population.Diamond himself - despite his criticism of agriculture - seems to concede that large human populations are not possible without it (IIRC).

I would be interested in your perspective on this.I'm very skeptical of agriculture; it seems to be one of the greatest drains upon human resources that was ever devised. And as you have pointed out yourself ... contrary to supposed wisdom, it's not a case of always "reaping what we sow", coz nature very often does the sowing for us.(Not to mention the fact that hunter-gatherer diets seem to have been significantly healthier than that of their farmer counterparts.)But, as I hinted above, it's the question of population that makes me think ... well, maybe we can't reject it altogether.Any thoughts?

davidc, you bring up a good point. i'm a firm believer that eating a paleolithic diet is ideal. however, i think we can have the best of both worlds. maybe more like an early neolithic diet which consists primarily of quality meats,vegetables,nuts,seeds,and minimal fruit BUT with whole grain and legumes thrown in during certain seasons (aka winter)when food was traditionally scare.

likewise, if we can keep our population at a healthy level then it's possible to progress towards star trek like technology but with many of us still living a semi migratory lifestyle.

it all comes down to balance. anyone that has any sound ideas on how this can be implemented then i'm all ears.

Daniel stop living like Jonah in the wilderness. For you have become greedy with the gift God has given you. Share the Fruit of tree, for you will not enter into the Kingdom of God unless this is fulfilled. God said to Jonah, "You regret the gourd, which you called yours; it grew and perished in one night; and do you think I had no pity for so numerous a people, who were perishing, living like the beasts, unable to distinguish their right hands from their left? Your knowledge of the truth was needed that you might have given to those who did not have it." Do not neglect the ones who neglect you, for they know not what they do.

Pretty insightful post. Never thought that it was this simple after all. I had spent a good deal of my time looking for someone to explain this subject clearly and you’re the only one that ever did that. Kudos to you! Keep it up

Daniel was not exiled by society, and nor was John the Baptist and Jonah. It was voluntary. Johnathan was exiled. Daniel's story is different. Jesus came to John and told him to preach the word of god for he wouldn't be able to enter the kingdom of god if stayed in isolation. Daniel act now!

What is truth ? . sigmund freud was only a man . His theory is that we are nothing but animals . many people believe his theories but is it true ?

What premise are all these people you side with comming from ?

What about the premise of Jesus ? Jesus claimed to be god . Is that truth to you ? or do you think you are a chosen one and will become a god ?

Who are you daniel ? Why do you beat around the bush ? If you are of god why don't you proclaim Jesus Christ as "the way " to salvation ?

Of course my premise is the bible . You have every right to alow yourself to be taken over by the darkness . Of course you may not even believe in any of that stuff and thats cool the great thing is that we can believe in any thing we want

"How long do you keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me."(John 10:25)

Daniel tries to put on his bible-interpreter's cap with Eccl 3:18-21 but he stopped only at the first verse. An important thing about reading anything is context. Verse 18 says "I said in my heart, "I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts." If we stopped there, then it could be that daniel has a point. But it is important to read on since it answers the question "why?" or "in what way?"

Ecc 3:19-21 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?

The point of this text is that everything dies, whether man or beast. Even the last verse makes it seem that there is still a distinction. But there is still that similarity. DEATH!

Of course both aimals and humans are living organisms. They are bound to share similarities. But a simple look at the way humans live in contrast to all the animals shows there is a distinction, even if it is metaphysical, spiritual, whatever you want to call i. It is because of the biological similaritie that we are in these days clasified as animals, disregarding the difference apparent in culture and technology.

Daniel , Am I reading your comment correctly? the one about Pontus Pilate's question to Jesus. ARE YOU DANIEL SUELO CLAIMING TO BE A GOD ?

False Prophets Will Appear Most Will Claim to Be the Messiah

In the end times many people will emerge claiming to be Jesus and some will openly declare themselves to be prophets. The appearance of false Messiahs, described as a portent of the coming of the Mahdi in the hadiths of our Prophet, is also to be found in the Bible:

For many will come in My name, saying, “I am the Christ,” and will deceive many. (Matthew, 24: 5)

Then if anyone says to you, “Look, here is the Christ!” or “There!” do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. (Matthew, 24: 23-25)

Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (Matthew, 24: 11)

And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them.” (Luke, 21: 8)

The point of the Ecclesiastes passage was to show that the Bible flat-out says we are animals, which somebody above was denying. Yes, there is more to the passage, but the point at hand is the point at hand, and has been made.

And this ties in perfectly with the subject at hand: We are animals, mere dust, claiming to be somebody.

If there is something more than animal within us, Born from Above, it will be self-evident without our talk. But the deluded mind cannot hear the Name above all names, Word beyond talk, cannot hear past its own thinking. This is why Jesus says, "I already told you, but you do not believe." No Messiah can say in words, "I am Messiah", no Christian can say in words, "I am Christian," as your Bible testifies.

Suelo,well, if you are so sure that we are animals by one scripture in the bible then how sure are you about this scripture .Its says that there is only one way to god (thru jesus christ) . You claim there other ways .

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Some friends I know often ask self-proclaimed Christians: "Can you name even 5 commandments of Jesus?" Do you even desire to PRACTICE them or implore people to PRACTICE them?

"He who does not love Me does not PRACTICE My words" (John 14:21)

He who says, "I know Him," and does not PRACTICE His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4)

Ask yourself who is spinning people away from Jesus' basic teachings, away from the Way, the Truth, and the Life? I challenge you to listen to any televangelist or typical "Bible-believing" church and ask yourself this.

It's written Jesus says he found more faith outside his own religion than within. Isn't the same true today?

The Way, the Truth, and the Life "was hungry, and you fed Me", "was in prison, and you visited Me," "a stranger and you took Me in." Notice how those admitted to Paradise didn't even know they served Christ & those who didn't serve Christ thought they did(Matthew 25:37,44).

Is this a spin?

Is your Christ Omnipresent, in the flesh here and now, in the Form of your Neighbor (the Image of God), or is he the xenonophobic tribal god "Christendom" makes him out to be, gone far in history, gone far in heaven? Is he so petty he cares what label you call him ("Lord, Lord") but doesn't give a caca whether or not you follow his most basic teaching?

Who is doing the spinning?

The Name is above all names that can be named, as your own Bible testifies. Call Him Christ, Krishna, Buddha, Allah, or Joe if you like, but "You will know them by their fruit". Nothing can argue with fruit.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

There's heaps more versus, but that's just a few to set the scene. Anyway, it seems like the way to go through Jesus is by obeying him. Sounds simple right? So what did Jesus say were the two most important commands? Of course loving your neighbor and loving God. Well, good old Pharisees know how to get some controversy going when they see an opportunity. So a Pharisee asked Jesus "well, who's my neighbor?" hoping to trap Jesus in his words.

Here's the real shocker! Who did Jesus single out as being the model example of someone loving Jesus by obeying him? A SAMARITAN! We all know the story of the Good Samaritan. But they were heretics by Jewish law, they were outcasts, not to be mingled with, an evil cult worthy of damnation! Not for Jesus. You can read all about it in Luke 10.

Anyway, Any, what's your solution? Are you advocating Suelo return to a 9-5 working for a lovely company like, oh let's say Lockheed & Martin and be a respectable member of your church? Would that somehow bring him closer to God? Why aren't you out bothering Creflo Dollar who teaches that wealth is proof of spirituality? Which is a big no no according to the Bible. When was the only time Jesus got physical? With the money changers in the temple.

Come on Any, lets see you take that fervor to your local megachurch and drive some no good money loving merchants from God's house. I'll go with you. Live anywhere near LA?

Normally I don't like responding to people like Any, but I had to get that last one off my chest. Has anyone else noticed that they keep changing the subject? Like what does Jonah have to do with Freud have to do with whether or not human beings are animals have to do with Jesus being the only way? They're all separate topics but when Suelo gave answer that Any couldn't respond to he/she just comes back with: "oh yeah? Well what about this[new topic unrelated to last topic]?!"

Anyway, I'm sure they'll nitpick at some little flaw in what I say and totally miss anything relevant. Jesus called it straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

Suelo , Do you feed people who are hungry ? do you go to visit people in prison ? would you realy take "any" person in ? Do you love people "all" the time ? Do you practice his words at "ALL" times ? Do you display fruit Every second of every day ? lets see your hypocritical spin this one .

Jesus taught under the law to show us that we can not live up to the demands of the law and that only he can live thru us . Its jesus living thru us that enables us to bear fruit . We cannot do it on our own . Again context is the key to understanding the letters of the new testament.

Anonymous, Do you feed people who are hungry ? do you go to visit people in prison ? would you realy take "any" person in ? Do you love people "all" the time ? Do you practice his words at "ALL" times ? Do you display fruit Every second of every day ?

But wait... that right, Jesus asked us not to talk about our good works Matthew 6:12. So by asking those questions you were directly asking Suelo to disobey Jesus. Doesn't sound like a very Christian thing to do. Tisk tisk tisk.

Sorry for being so critical with all of this. I get on pretty well with most types of people, Muslim, Agnostics...whatever, but I have a hard to not being annoyed by people that claim to be Christians yet they attack those who are doing a better job of representing Jesus than they are. If Jesus was alive today, Anonymous would be right alongside those crucifying him.

Hey Any, if God can forgive people for not doing enough good works, can he forgive them for doing too many good works? Now that we're living under grace, surely God can forgive us for trying to obey Jesus and not just for not trying.

Suelo , Today it occured to me that we are arguing and I thought to myself ,This is silly . Why am I arguing with this man ? I cannot do anything to help this man see the truth and believe, that is gods business . So Im taking the gloves off and Im walking away . I am tired of religious arguing. I will present the truth when I am called to do so ,but no more arguing . Take it or leave it thats my new attitude . Im done .

Wow, Anonymous is stopping the battle, good work! As far as what annoys me about you that annoys me about me, well I don't totally agree with your observations that it always works that way, but I see some truth in what you say so I'll respond. What annoys me about you that also annoys me about me is when I attack someone who I feel threatened by because they are showing a better example of Jesus in their life then me. Simple as that. I don't know you, so you could be a lovely person, it's just that in your posts here I haven't seen much Jesus. Just my honest opinion.

Jesse , Relax . Lets be friends ! thats of god . Tell me about yourself . Im just a regular guy who loves everybody . sometimes we all try to "make" people see our veiws ,but we realy don't need to do that .Love is the answer ! maby we can just be cyber friends .

What the hell? Is Any calling Suelo a terrorist? Wow, that just goes to show how much hate you have for him, that's low. Looks like that cease fire was just a chance for you to catch your breath and reload your weapon. Sorry Any, I don't make friends with people who treat my real friends like crap.

Anyway, I think I'll just ignore Any for now, no point in feeding the flames.

I didn't hear about those cops getting in trouble, that is interesting though. Suelo, hope things are going well on the farm, I guess those seedlings must be getting close to full grown. Not much longer till harvest!

"By their fruit you will know them." Again, you can't argue with fruit. I can make no claims of being a Christian or Holy or whatever. I could be a total sham. My fruit will declare it or not. Truth becomes crystal clear when mouths are zipped.

BTW, we agree on something! The Ephesians 2:8-9 passage quoted above must be read in context. Any, I dare you to read the next verse 10 and post it here.

No rule says you have to read anything, but it saves embarrassment to read a blog post before commenting on it, like the essay link in this blog about Grace and Works.

To better understand what Mr. Suelo is trying to tell you, understand this my dear brother, Christ in the new testament speaks of two different Laws: One be the mosaic law, and the other being the divine law. Jesus separates them by stating the Mosaic law as "Law and the prophets" and the divine law as "Law, or the Prophets." He often reefers to the divine by itself and never combines it with "the prophets," It is always separated by a comma or a predicate.

What does this have to do with anything you ask? This has to do with the separation of the Mosaic Law and Christ's law, and the misinterpretation many christians have with Christ's teachings. Many Christians think Christ's law and Mosaic law are one in the same, but they are not. Christ didn't come down to earth to fulfill the Mosaic Creed, because the Mosaic Creed follows the laws of men and not of god. Instead He came down to fulfill the divine law, so we as brother's and sister's can live in His example, and not to relay on His example to save us. The kingdom of God only comes to those who seek it...Right? And to seek it, we ourselves must act in his spirit regardless of the consequences that may lay ahead. Christ says that He brings peace on earth (John 14:27); ‘Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you; I give it to you not as the world [Mosaic law] gives."

Jesus driving moneychangers & merchants from the Temple.

Sadhu of India

Call me Suelo

I lived totally without cents since Autumn of 2000 (except for a couple months in 2001) until the Spring of 2016, when I started caring for my aging parents, managing their finances. For 15 years I didn't use or accept money or conscious barter - nor did I take food stamps or other government dole. My philosophy has been to use only what is freely given or discarded and what is already present and already running (whether or not I existed).
I don't see money as evil or good: how can illusion be evil or good? But I don't see heroin or meth as evil or good, either. Which is more addictive and debilitating, money or meth?
Attachment to illusion makes you illusion, makes you not real. Attachment to illusion is called idolatry, called addiction. I simply got tired of acknowledging as real this most common world-wide belief called money! I simply got tired of being unreal. Money is one of those intriguing things that seems real and functional because 2 or more people believe it is real & functional!