tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post6790019863480940102..comments2018-02-21T23:31:04.688-06:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: What James Holmes and the Colorado Movie Massacre Tell Us About White (Male) PrivilegeLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-41578710780088136652013-04-25T21:56:26.545-05:002013-04-25T21:56:26.545-05:00Completely irrelevant point in relation to the art...Completely irrelevant point in relation to the articlechill213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-6516193892751434092012-07-25T15:58:35.399-05:002012-07-25T15:58:35.399-05:00Lou:
The point of the original article is not tha...Lou:<br /><br />The point of the original article is not that the shooter did what he did *because* he&#39;s white (though it can be argued that *how* he did it may be tied to cultural factors); the point is that media responds to this perp differently, and in much the same way you do, because of his race: as an *individual*. <br /><br />The media reaction to a Black human&#39;s violence tends to insinuate that the violence is a result of a flaw in Black culture (or even genetics); the Black perp becomes the stand-in (or ambassador) for All Blacks. The White Perp is usually treated as an aberration... that&#39;s the &quot;privilege&quot; the original article refers to.Steven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-41064820572258968222012-07-25T14:55:04.152-05:002012-07-25T14:55:04.152-05:00I wish I could say something to this, but I&#39;ll...I wish I could say something to this, but I&#39;ll get blasted for saying anything because I&#39;m white (though I&#39;m Native American) and male. <br /><br />Do African-Americans get treated unfairly? Do Latino Americans? Asian Americans? <br /><br />Yes, they do. <br /><br />But not by everyone.<br /><br />My first boyfriend was African-American. We loved each other, as teenagers think we do (I&#39;m 28 now), and then we drifted apart and he moved.<br /><br />Will I stop dating African-Americans? No. Do I blame the race as a whole? Hell no, that&#39;d be stupid.<br /><br />Should we blame &quot;white privilege&quot; on this? If you wish to so you can have something to blame.<br /><br />But what we have to look at is that he&#39;s one male. White, yes, but one male. He&#39;s sick, whether actually or figuratively and he doesn&#39;t represent <b>all</b> white males. Neither does the KKK.<br /><br />And it&#39;s a shame that it has to be looked at this way.Lou Gagliardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593776892446046970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-49392629322763309032012-07-24T02:52:18.568-05:002012-07-24T02:52:18.568-05:00&quot;lol, I would prefer not to..., &quot;
Doubl...&quot;lol, I would prefer not to..., &quot;<br /><br />Double the LOL and let&#39;s move onSteven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-63285098130545986042012-07-23T23:10:41.443-05:002012-07-23T23:10:41.443-05:00Hey guys - im sure this is just a fake, but some p...Hey guys - im sure this is just a fake, but some people are saying that this youtube video was put up by JAMES HOLMES - the crazy wanna-be Joker Denver cinema Shooter. The video is 3 weeks old, so it&#39;s not some newbie wanna be fake.... It&#39;s pretty wierd, i&#39;ll give it that much - it seems to be trying to explain why he&#39;s so angry, and how maybe the shooting was a way for him to fight the actual source of his rage... doesn&#39;t make much sense to me, but it&#39;s.... interesting. Here&#39;s the link anyway<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdp0QsqYbuYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-76940170180800455762012-07-23T22:00:50.656-05:002012-07-23T22:00:50.656-05:00Hello CD, White male privilege is nothing new in t...Hello CD, White male privilege is nothing new in this country. Therefore, it should be no surprise that this deranged young man did what he did in Aurora. In fact, his behavior is consistent with a group of people who believe that they have an inherent right to destroy other human beings at a time of their choosing. It is also in line with a culture that continues to marginalize and denigrate others who doesn’t fit their own phenotypic makeup. In sum, surely we are dealing with a sick group of people. –Black SageAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-26568688823337189582012-07-23T21:05:54.790-05:002012-07-23T21:05:54.790-05:00&quot;The white man, that landed here; He came wit...&quot;The white man, that landed here; He came with two great weapons. One is the bible and the other was the gun. If he didn&#39;t humble you with the bible, he&#39;d crumble you with the gun. And he&#39;s still praising the lord and passing the ammunition.&quot; - Lewis H. MichauxGrung_e_Genehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01894879088472559055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-28534987971814370972012-07-23T20:32:30.156-05:002012-07-23T20:32:30.156-05:00Now: can you please either connect that to the lon...<i>Now: can you please either connect that to the lone gunman under discussion or admit you were just kinda sorta bluffing...</i><br /><br />lol, I would prefer not to...,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-54292606701055022912012-07-23T19:22:53.699-05:002012-07-23T19:22:53.699-05:00Right. And the blog post you now link to relates t...Right. And the blog post you now link to relates to the &quot;chimp war&quot; article-excerpt you copy-n-pasted, before, exactly how? (well at least you linked instead of pasting, this time).<br /><br />Here&#39;s the essential argument of the &quot;chimp war&quot; thing you posted:<br /><br />&quot;What is the significance of chimp war? It is important in what it shows us about cooperative violence, which usually erupts only as enlightened self-interest. Group aggression confers such a huge winning edge against single competitors that, once it entered the arms race of sexual selection, kin selection instantly forged it into the most seri­ous weapon in any male’s behavioral arsenal.&quot;<br /><br />Operative phrase: &quot;cooperative violence&quot;. Now: can you please either connect that to the lone gunman under discussion or admit you were just kinda sorta bluffing... while borrowing a better rhetorician&#39;s crypto-racist insinuations?<br /><br />Failing that: keep tossing non sequiturs at the wall until one of them sticks, CnU!Steven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-4399098981294536042012-07-23T19:01:19.221-05:002012-07-23T19:01:19.221-05:00Because the &quot;chimp war&quot; paradigm is demo...<i>Because the &quot;chimp war&quot; paradigm is demonstrably unrelated to the disgruntled-loner-with-a-gun-inflicting-random-carnage meme. </i><br /><br />Demonstrably?<br /><br />lol, you&#39;re unfamiliar with <a href="http://whiskeysplace.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/the-dark-knight-rises-movie-shooting-healthy-and-unhealthy-fantasies/" rel="nofollow">the subject and its contemporary behavioral modalities</a>.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-33776332358440165972012-07-23T18:27:42.956-05:002012-07-23T18:27:42.956-05:00I found this on a Google search and thought it fit...I found <a href="http://www.pauahtun.org/6624-7624.F03.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> on a Google search and thought it fit this post. The class is from 2003. Who knows if it&#39;s still being taught.ellemariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05492035574979627874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-15196348456082939322012-07-23T18:12:37.891-05:002012-07-23T18:12:37.891-05:00And there&#39;s always...
MOREAnd there&#39;s always...<br /><br /><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/victims-mom-yells-burn-hell-detroit-area-man-200014493.html" rel="nofollow">MORE</a>Steven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-58714043631763287862012-07-23T17:33:05.134-05:002012-07-23T17:33:05.134-05:00@Meel Sahib:
&quot;But if the racist media is goi...@Meel Sahib:<br /><br />&quot;But if the racist media is going to treat every black killer as an example of the &quot;pathology&quot; of black men, when again he is probably a better example of how humans respond to economic, health, and social incentives, let&#39;s see if treating a typical white criminal as an example of the pathology of whites gives us any interesting ideas to run with. Hence the question posed in the post.&quot;<br /><br />It&#39;s interesting (frustrating) how easy it seems to be to misinterpret this simple thought-experiment. The defensive/hostile reaction to it is a real QED moment.Steven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-72112311116783664242012-07-23T17:24:08.613-05:002012-07-23T17:24:08.613-05:00&quot;lol, stick with comic books and racism chasi...&quot;lol, stick with comic books and racism chasing steven, ethology may just not be for you...&quot;<br /><br />Fine, CnU... but... how about that clarification, after all? Because it looks to me that your &quot;chimp war&quot; insert was a case of someone with not much to add to the actual conversation defaulting to copy-n-paste in lieu of a cogently-argued position. <br /><br />Because the &quot;chimp war&quot; paradigm is demonstrably unrelated to the disgruntled-loner-with-a-gun-inflicting-random-carnage meme. <br /><br />Not trying to embarrass you or anything. Just hoping for an interesting conversation.Steven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-6960785779137623182012-07-23T16:26:39.339-05:002012-07-23T16:26:39.339-05:00Or misuse it.Or misuse it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-14650050456507221392012-07-23T15:50:30.322-05:002012-07-23T15:50:30.322-05:00I think the ape discussion is way out of order ......<i>I think the ape discussion is way out of order ...</i><br /><br />lol, heaven forbid I use the term &quot;niggardly&quot;...,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-4841280048068041902012-07-23T15:48:59.449-05:002012-07-23T15:48:59.449-05:00Uh, sure, CnU, that&#39;s all really great... but,...<i>Uh, sure, CnU, that&#39;s all really great... but, seriously: explain how &quot;chimp war&quot; is relevant here.</i><br /><br />lol, stick with comic books and racism chasing steven, ethology may just not be for you...,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-76913752944654646502012-07-23T15:31:50.443-05:002012-07-23T15:31:50.443-05:00Clearly the profile of a crowd serial killer is th...Clearly the profile of a crowd serial killer is the male and the white male leads the index..<br /><br />It therefore follows that any proposed solution must incorporate the white male in the equation.<br /><br />I like the medical template offered up by one of the posters it will not violate any constitutional related rights and under a public policy model it will be easy to model after a medical threat to the public safety .<br /><br />My concern is will white males in the ruling class tolerate this medical model which would limit their white privilege and master of the universe persona ??<br /><br />I think the ape discussion is way out of order ...Arandinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31738064283667483462012-07-23T15:11:49.892-05:002012-07-23T15:11:49.892-05:00Uh, sure, CnU, that&#39;s all really great... but,...Uh, sure, CnU, that&#39;s all really great... but, seriously: explain how &quot;chimp war&quot; is relevant here.Steven Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-86135628370923517692012-07-23T14:30:39.380-05:002012-07-23T14:30:39.380-05:00rotflmbao...., priceless.comedy.gold!!!rotflmbao...., priceless.comedy.gold!!!CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-26221462655160014382012-07-23T14:15:18.329-05:002012-07-23T14:15:18.329-05:00Of course RACE is rhe issue with acts of domestic ...Of course RACE is rhe issue with acts of domestic terrorism in America..Clearly MALES not FEMALES are the most lethal gender in America and Clealry WHITE MALES are the lost lethal and criminal aggregate in our nation from incest to child pron sites to workplace killings to white collar crimes, spousal abuse, and now this crowd kill syndrome all 95% male aand white males as the trigger..<br /><br />I propose our Surgeon General conduct a national medical inquiry on the specifics of MALE violence in both urban and class related venues..<br /><br />I then propose a complete moratorium of gun sales under the umbrella of medical public policy to pronibit the sales of guns to all males in these venues with a added focus on &quot;white males&quot;.<br /><br />Our Surgeon General needs to publish an index on lethal and violence criminal suspects which all of us can employ 24/7..<br /><br />Our Surgeon General under a martial law medical emergency can the create a state wide mental health force which can the have arrest rights to apprehend and place into custody people that suffered from these pathologies as defined by the SG&#39;s national medical inquiry task force..<br /><br />Let&#39;s start now and write to congress to begi this national medical inquiry and process..PInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-49382165996612161632012-07-23T12:48:01.601-05:002012-07-23T12:48:01.601-05:00@freebones
Appreciating your attempt to ratchet do...@freebones<br />Appreciating your attempt to ratchet down the racial dichotomies happening, but the point of the original post is that if this person were black the media would be coming up with pathological explanations, using him as a symbol of black men across America, rather than a disturbed individual. And I think the idea with the flipping of the script to ask what he represents about the pathology of white men is to see if this way of thinking (pathology of a race/cultural group) has anything to offer as far as understanding this tragedy when we decouple it from its cultural history of being used to categorize black men as inherently violent and criminal. <br /><br />Although something is wrong with the young white men who gun down hordes of innocent bystanders (I would argue MORE than is wrong with the young black/brown/whatever gang members who are acting according to comprehensible economic and health incentives within their professional field), it probably has less to do with the single factor of their race than the bewildering array of specific problems that goes into producing an individual psychology, one of which is undoubtedly race.<br /><br />But if the racist media is going to treat every black killer as an example of the &quot;pathology&quot; of black men, when again he is probably a better example of how humans respond to economic, health, and social incentives, let&#39;s see if treating a typical white criminal as an example of the pathology of whites gives us any interesting ideas to run with. Hence the question posed in the post. And my attempt to respond, positing a racial frame for the killer&#39;s actions (&quot;I&#39;m not a good enough white man, I need to establish my superiority with violence&quot;).<br /><br />@ a white guy<br />I hope you weren&#39;t responding to me with those comments about beating children and blacks committing &quot;just as many&quot; mass killings as whites, because (a) beating children normalizes violence in that child&#39;s psychology as a problem-solving strategy throughout their lives (not to mention fosters a sense of personal helplessness and inferiority, all of which place people of any race, class, and everything else at a higher risk for violent activity later in life) and (b) I never said only whites commit mass killings, but that white men in the US tend to commit this particular type of mass killing. People of color commit mass killings all the time, mostly in Africa, Asia, and South America as a technique of political control. In the US the killings done by people of color tend to be the across-the-board crimes of passion everyone commits or targeted acts of violence based on the professional needs of a violent criminal organization (indeed often badly and broadly targeted, but that&#39;s more a question of resources than psychology, ie it being easier, cheaper, and faster to spray a truck with automatic weapon fire and endanger innocents than it is to stealthily and specifically kill the single person targeted). Psychologically-motivated mass killings like the Aurora shootings are <i>almost</i> entirely the province of white men. <i>Almost.</i> After all, the Virginia Tech shooter wasn&#39;t white, to pick one mostly at random. Though that does kind of expose the lie that is any racial frame in the first place, as race can never be more than a single factor in the multifaceted process of individual decision-making.Meel Sahibnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-20631689189141020622012-07-23T11:49:42.741-05:002012-07-23T11:49:42.741-05:00oh CD i must very much disagree. nothing is wrong ...oh CD i must very much disagree. nothing is wrong with young white men. we don&#39;t need to ask what is. what we need to do is STOP asking what is wrong with blacks. because people at the root of it are just people. nothing is wrong with white people that caused this, just like nothing is wrong with blacks or muslims when members of those groups are the arbiters of violence. <br /><br />although perhaps you were being sarcastic as in your white criminal pieces.freeboneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131233817153602375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-87760855306036441552012-07-23T09:58:30.615-05:002012-07-23T09:58:30.615-05:00As folks have worked through many times before in ...<i>As folks have worked through many times before in the common &quot;what if?&quot; game of race in America, if James Holmes were black or brown this would be one more signal to the existence of a &quot;pathological culture&quot; among said group. </i><br /><br />This incident, and the spate of precursor incidents over the past decade, along continuing high-levels of gang-related violence in the hood - are a clear indication of underlying pathology among young males in America. The highly organized elder psychopathocracy - which formerly worked to channel and check such young male violence - is no longer on the job anymore.<br /><br />By contrast, in Mexico OTOH - the elder psychopathocracy is sufficently well organized that it&#39;s well down the path of building and operating its own competing deep state infrastructure sufficient to dig in for a protracted civil war with Mexico&#39;s incumbent silverback elites.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-57453239156182847552012-07-23T09:47:32.567-05:002012-07-23T09:47:32.567-05:00Waiting for the conceptual link between the atroci...<i>Waiting for the conceptual link between the atrocity under discussion (disgruntled dude with automatic weapons fires randomly into movie audience, over-identifying with Heath Ledger&#39;s Joker) and &quot;chimp war&quot;.</i><br /><br />Would you mind holding your breath too?<br /><br /><i>CNu, I&#39;m really sort of surprised you don&#39;t cite William B. Shockley more often, or, obviously,</i><br /><br />William Luther Pierce would be your forerunner huckleberry fetching around for the killer-ape ignition switch.<br /><br /><i>However, there are several conversations that will likely not occur. It is unlikely that the aftermath of the Colorado shooting rampage will be a moment when we as a country reflect upon the relationship between masculinity and violence. There most certainly will not be a &quot;beer summit&quot; about how accused shooter James Holmes is one more entry in a long list of mass killers who are white, male, and young.<br /><br />When viewed through the white racial frame, there is nothing in his deeds on last Friday night that reflects upon the behavior of white people, generally, or white men in particular. From this perspective, his dressing up as The Joker, and killing more than a dozen people, and wounding many more, are the actions of one sick person.</i><br /><br />lol, the ethological roots of the spate of young male gun violence will not occur - mostly because egg-headed simpletons overly enamored of their own frilly rhetoric - have never considered that steadily escalating young male violence is a natural and expected outgrowth of steadily escalating economic pressure.<br /><br />non-violent, peaceful protest is the cultivated anomalous response.<br /><br />It&#39;s only a matter of time before the killer-ape ethology takes collective hold and prompts collective violent action. <br /><br />the psychopath can serve as a catalyst to the collective eruption, and once that gets underway, serves as the journeyman maintainer of an escalated and sustainable level of collective violent action.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.com