Memeorandum

December 23, 2012

CIA Acting Head Agnostic On Enhanced Interrogation

The acting CIA chief declared his agnosticism on the efficacy of enhanced interrogation in a letter to CIA employees discussing the new Bin Laden film:

The acting director of the C.I.A., Michael J. Morell, has criticized a new movie about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, saying it exaggerates the role of coercive interrogations in producing clues to the whereabouts of the leader of Al Qaeda.

In a message sent Friday to agency employees about the film, “Zero Dark
Thirty,” Mr. Morell said it “creates the strong impression that the
enhanced interrogation techniques that were part of our former detention
and interrogation program were the key to finding Bin Laden. That
impression is false.”

In fact, he said, “the truth is that multiple streams of intelligence
led C.I.A. analysts to conclude that Bin Laden was hiding in
Abbottabad,” the city in Pakistan where a Navy SEAL team killed him in
May 2011. “Some came from detainees subjected to enhanced techniques,”
Mr. Morell wrote, using the C.I.A.’s euphemism for harsh and sometimes
brutal treatment that included waterboarding. “But there were many other sources as well.”

He said that “whether enhanced interrogation techniques were the only
timely and effective way to obtain information from those detainees, as
the film suggests, is a matter of debate that cannot and never will be
definitively resolved.”

So there were many information sources, including some based on enhanced interrogation. And since these were not controlled experiments, we have no way of knowing how the prisoners subjected to enhanced interrogation might have responded if treated differently.

The NY Times pretends there is no news here:

The message from Mr. Morell, who is considered a top candidate for the C.I.A. director’s job, comes days after a similar statement from three senators, including Dianne Feinstein,
Democrat of California and chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence
Committee, which will consider the confirmation of whomever President
Obama selects as C.I.A. director.

"Similar statement"? Here is the statement and the Times coverage. I don't know how you read either one and come away thinking enhanced interrogation provided anything useful. Here is the Times lead:

WASHINGTON — In an unusual Congressional critique of Hollywood moviemaking, three United States senators on Wednesday lambasted “Zero Dark Thirty,” the new fictionalized film about the hunt for Osama bin Laden,
calling it “grossly inaccurate and misleading in its suggestion that
torture resulted in information that led to the location” of the
terrorist leader.

And a bit later:

Some human rights advocates have described the film as ambiguous on the
question of whether torture was useful, while others believe it implies
that torture produced some early clues.

The senators take the latter view and say the movie is “factually
inaccurate” and “has the potential to shape American public opinion in a
disturbing and misleading manner.”

So the impression that enhanced interrogation provided "some early clues" is "factually inaccurate" and may be "misleading" to the American public.

And that is really similar to the current admission that there were many clues that led to Bin Laden, some of which came from the enhanced interrogation program? Who is zooming whom?

Comments

Is he also agnostic about whether enhanced interrogation played a role in preventing acts of terrorism, disrupting their plans, forcing them to relocate or otherwise breaking down their organization. Limiting inquiry into only its role in getting UBL does not address the issue it purports to address.

The post I wrote before the LUN of Continuing Our Conversation . . . on the intentional cultivation of false belief systems is so pertinent to the IPCC report and Education for Sustainability and CAGW generally. And biodiversity once the schemers get traction.

The on-going left wing fantasy world just gets weirder and weirder. "Enhanced interrogation is torture, therefore it couldn't possible be helpful. Drones are cool. It's fine for the president to use drones, and detain Americans without a trial. Spending is not a problem, the only problem is rich people. If we get rid of guns criminals won't kill people."

Actually Bowden gave up the last part of the puzzle, in the Finish, pointing out Slahi, was the first to give up the courier, his lawyer Couch complained,but the Schmidt/Furlow report basically poored cold water on the claim. Slahi had been with the Hamburg cell that included Jarrah, who was on United 93, the plane that Quahtani was supposed to complete the hijacker complement for, so it's logical they would know of the Courier.

I posted that link on the other thread, in other jackanapes news, some no latent 'wise Latina' Alisaa Valdez, in the Post, does a gratuitous slam at Sarah, subsequently we find out her new husband, has stepped out on her.

This is what we wanted to do in this country, re Prairie Fire, and Grathwold's testimony, Captain,
if you saw from the early morning thread, the Slate columnists doing an extra round of Vizzini, describing Ellie Goulding's voice as 'Cyborgian' that's just full of epic fail,

I see that she writes on sports for the New Yorker, which must be some great parody material. Maybe she, Selena Roberts and Jemele Hill should have a contest to prove which of them is the most ignorant bint when it comes to sports knowledge.

IMO, we lost the country when we allowed anti-American Marxist "liberals" to infiltrate and dominate the MFM, academia, Hollywood/entertainment, and government bureaucracies.

We failed to stop them when we could, before they controlled the major institutions which indoctrinate, brainwash, and spread their propaganda, values, and version of history to generations of American children and immigrants.

Until we're ready to change that, nothing will change for the better in this country and we'll continue to march toward the Left's dystopian utopia.

@NFLhistory: Peyton Manning now has 9 12-win reg seasons, most of any starting QB in @NFL history. Brady & Favre tie for 2nd w/6

In fairness to some of the old timers (Unitas and Otto Graham come to mind) the 16 game schedule didn't begin until 1978 and Goodell is still spanking his tiny monkey to increase it to 18. That said, it's an incredible accomplishment by Manning.

We failed to stop them when we could, before they controlled the major institutions which indoctrinate, brainwash, and spread their propaganda, values, and version of history to generations of American children and immigrants.

Other than the government bureaucracies, I'm not sure how we could have prevented it. How could we have prevented the leftist takeover of academia, the MSM, and Hollywood?

What can we do now? We can hope SCOTUS does a number on affirmative action. We're stuck with the Dept of Education for at least four years, but presumably more, ditto for the Civil Rights Commission, Labor Department, the now federalized student loan industry, and all the other bureaucracies that push academia to the left. This will be a 100 year war.

I'm not sure what we could have done before to prevent the Left's take-over of these institutions, but if we really don't want to let them take the country there, and if, as I do, you don't have the time - and even if you did, you no longer have any confidence in the electoral system - then something more drastic than simply "hoping" that the SCOTUS will do "something" will be necessary.

It will stop. Unless they can figure out how to steal the natural gas beneath our feet, they're going to run out of cash. Of course , at that point, they will show their true colors and try and steal what they need.

Not to be pollyannish about it but it comes down to "something that can't continue won't". Media for the most part is on the fast track to bankruptcy and higher education is going to come to a reckoning as well as student loans can't be funded (because of budget pressure at the federal, state, and local level) and all those fake degree programs and bloated administrations have to be scuttled. It won't take what is happening in Greece or Spain (both with 20%+ unemployment) either. We still have alot of advantages in this country, and at this point, everything else (higher taxes, more regulation, more government) has been tried and found lacking. The only solution that hasn't been tried is real smaller governmemnt and real tax cuts.

Rich, we are so FUXED that NOTHING will be funded. Medicare and S.S. are so bankrupt that we are in deep trouble. That is what makes me despise Obama. He doesn't care. He wants our collapse. No matter HOW MUCH we STOLE from the RICH, it could not be enough, and that confiscation WILL HARM the economy. HE DOESN'T CARE. Or rather, that is what HE WANTS.

Don't forget, there's a real affinity to avoid any governmental involvement in any business transaction, from the large to the farmer's market.

The grey economy is just minutes away, where ever you are. It's a fascinating subject that I've followed for years. The Romantic countries are masters of it, at lower levels. No wonder, they've been trained to avoid taxation for thousands of years. It's growing here.

I hope you're right ... I certainly hope things will change peacefully and relatively civilly.

However, I think there's a danger that we may underestimate the cultural impact of the Left's 30-40 years of indoctrination and brainwashing here in the US. I do worry that we will experience some of the same violence and upheaval that Greece and Spain are experiencing, though I know they have had more extreme Leftist governments and instability than we have experienced yet, thankfully. I just don't think we can take it for granted that it won't happen here because it never has before.

And because of the indoctrination and brainwashing, where the Left has proven successful in ridiculing Republicans and conservatives and blaming us and our philosphy of smaller government, lower taxes, and fiscal restraint for the state of the economy now, I don't really share your belief that people will actually embrace our policies to get out of this mess.

I used to have more faith and confidence in the American people, but that was before 2008 and 2012. LOL

Even at the depths of WW1 and WW2 things were funded at both the federal and state level (granted government was much smaller then). The deal that will get passed as we go over the "fiscal cliff" will be an IMF-lite structural adjustment program, which unfortunately, will make things worse. The problem I see is that with such weakness at home, countries and groups around the world are going to take advantage turning a financial crisis into a national security crisis.

Now for the pleasant OT stuff - finally got most of the Christmas decorations up. Don't know why I'm so late this year - usually it's decorations first, then tree, but this year it was the reverse.

Made my first batch of gingersnaps. Santa must be bored of these. I don't care - they were my Nana's recipe and my grandmother (her DIL) called them (affectionately) "sh*tballs." We thought Nana brought them from Sweden, but turns out it's just the recipe from the Brer Rabbit bottle.

Thanks so much to our Janet for the sweet Chick Fil-A ornament. You really know how to brighten a gal's outlook, Janet. xoxo

Shaping up to be a nice, if quiet, Christmas with just the immediate family and no guests.

Yes, but it can go on for longer than you might think, and end more badly. The longer the entitlement fiasco is kicked down the road, the worse it will be, either by slow deterioration or by a big meltdown. Western Europe has been teetering down the road to destruction for the better part of 80 years, whether by war, fascism, or socialism.

I guess my point is this: Something that can't continue won't, but what will take its place? I wish I could be optimistic.

Merry Christmas. Wanted to let you know (I posted it on the other thread too), I got into George Mason for EE. Thanks, one of your comments got me to clean up my application and sit down with the admission's officer. Got my acceptance letter on Friday (my dad read it to me over the phone). Hope your Christmas is enjoyable and quiet.

jimmyk-

Something that can't continue won't, but what will take its place? I wish I could be optimistic.

The promises that governments are making to their electorates are not just misleading: they are unforgivably dishonest. It will not be possible to go on as we are, or to return to the expectations that we once had. The immediate emergency created by the crash of 2008 was not some temporary blip in the infinitely expanding growth of the beneficent state. It was, in fact, almost irrelevant to the larger truth which it happened, by coincidence, to bring into view. Government on the scale established in most modern western countries is simply unaffordable. In Britain, the disagreement between Labour and the Conservatives over how to reduce the deficit (cut spending or increase borrowing?) is ridiculously insignificant and out of touch with the actual proportions of the problem. In the UK, the US, and (above all) the countries of the EU, democratic politics is being conducted on false premises.

Had a very fun time last night going out with old friends for dinner at the outdoor Night Market in Hong Kong. Was quite chilly, and todays South China Morning Post says that tonight will be the coldest Christmas Eve in 12 years.

At the Night Market, as with everywhere in Hong Kong, it is simply masses of people you have to weave through, (for instance here's Nathan Road at Christmas) but finally we found an empty street-side outdoor table, and you sit on little plastic blue stools and order wonderful little dishes like garlic bokchoys and spicy prawns, etc. .

It is fascinating to see how so much of the rest of the world enjoys extravagantly decorating for Christmas. Many of the Paris restaurants were very Christmasy, and even in Dubai there were Trees and decorations in the Hotel Lobby and at the Irish Village outdoor Sports/Restaurant complex. Bangalore was decorated as well, especially the hotel, but that is not so surprising as the local legend is that Bangalore is Saint Thomas Territory (the Apostle Doubting Thomas).

But the coastal cities of China are where Xmas Decorations really are done proper. Hong Kong is completely lit up at night like a Christmas tree, with large Plastic trees all over
and snowflake decals on almost all the shop windows.
And choirs like these were passed as we did the 20 block hike down Nathan Road to then turn left to the Night Market.

In a hour or two we are off to Shanghai which likewise is usually decorated to the 9's with Santa stuff, so I'll hopefully enjoy a Christmas lunch at the Blarney Stone, then zip home to Alaska, and because of the Date Line change, I''ll arrive about noon there for Christmas Dinner as well. Momma says she will immediately stuff me with Turkey on arrival, then send me to bed, so I can wake up and take the dogs out at night. Merry Christmas.

Having my parents and inlaws over for Pasta Bolognese tonight. Have to triple the recipe so there should be more tomorrow.

Have a bottle of Duval Leroy chilled for whenever hubby and Red get done working. We love that on New Years and had a bottle Thanksgiving. Completely ruins anything served on campus as being something Red will touch. Which of course is part of the calculation.

And Red just called me to remind me what she wanted under the tree. I reminded her that never again can she come home on fall break and under the words "I need it now and it can be my Christmas present" and have me believe her.

Oh Ext, we always wanted to try the Feast of 7 Fishes and even planned it a few years ago. Cioppino was to account for some of the 7 fishies. But, alas, there was some shortage of crab that year right on the cusp of Christmas Eve, so back we went to our traditional Prime Rib.

My Italian in-laws back in the day always prepared Baccala, so we always had fish represented. Alas, that is one recipe none of us thought to write down!

The JiB clan (all 3 of us) will be spending Christmas like we have as a family since Victorian times. A short Christmas eve, watching The Nativity Story (a break from Dickens:), enjoying a glass (or two) of Champagne then to bed. Wake up to Santa's deliverance, open presents, go to 10 O'Clock Mass and then walk the course for a little Christmas golf. For dinner its a "joint" aka Roast Beef with Yorkshire pudding, roast potatoes, parsnips and Brussels sprouts, Pumpkin and Mince meat pie. (No pudding this year as I forgot to start it back in the summer).

On the 26th we do Boxing Day and open the house up to friends and neighbors for a little Christmas cheer, some poached salmon, jumbo shrimp and clam dip with home made chips. Yummy. Can't wait.

On the 27th we are off to Southampton with a side visit to The Big Apple on January 2nd to the 4th. Back to Florida on the 6th.

Following Santa on NORAD's Santa Tracker. He is now in China and there over 1 billion gifts delivered so far. Busy guy.