Friday, July 14, 2006

The following is a news report from yesterday’s Jyllands-Posten, kindly translated for Gates of Vienna by Zonka:

Brother Is Prevented ‘Honor Killing’ His Sister

A courageous big brother — and an attack on him — have possibly put the police in Elsingore onto the trail of a failed ‘honor killing’ within the Pakistani community.

The police opened the case after jailing two friends of the brother’s family. Among other things, these arrests will send a signal to the people involved, and to threatened women, that such behavior is not tolerated.

The older brother told the police that last year in July or August, he was ordered to kill his little sister by his seventy-one year old father because she wanted out of her arranged marriage. He refused and instead allied himself with his younger sister.

“He was subjected to extreme pressure to perform the killing, but he wouldn’t have anything to do with it,” says Henning Svendsen, Crime-Inspector in Elsingnore.

On June 9, he was assaulted in Birkerød by a gang of seven or eight people. The forty three year-old brother was hit with clubs and cricket bats; his wife, who is the same age, was also beaten when she tried to stop the assault.

Within 24 hours, the victim’s father and two brothers-in-law — aged forty-one and thirty-six — were arrested.

Last week another forty one year-old male was arrested for being a part of the gang that assaulted the brother. And with the arrests on Thursday of two more men — ages forty-two and thirty-seven — a total of six people have been detained.

The last three men arrested are friends of the family, and in addition to these the police are looking for yet another man. He is assumed to be outside of the country.

The seventy-one year old father has been charged with being an accomplice to murder, while the others are held on charges of dangerous violence, and all will be held in custody until July 27.

Names and minutes from the court sessions have been kept confidential, and the court sessions have been held behind closed doors (without public attendance).

When Henning Svendsen, the Crime-Inspector in Elsingnore, talks about the case despite its confidentiality, he intends to send a signal to those areas where ‘honor killings’ could take place.

“It is unbelievable that somebody is planning such deeds while the ‘honor killing’ case from Slagelse is running in the media. We also want to send a strong signal to these people that such behavior will not be tolerated. We also want to send the signal to women who could have been subjected to similar threats, that we do not tolerate it,” says Henning Svendsen.

This second example of Danish refusal to follow any longer the Orwellian multi-cultural “tolerance” for cruel and dysfunctional practices among Muslim immigrants may be the tipping point. It may be the death knell for homicidal behaviors in the cultural sink that is commonplace among so many of the Islamic ghettoes that are filling to the brim all across Europe.

Denmark's authorities are saying “Enough!” and they are saying it loud and clear. Loud enough even for the impaired hearing of those Muslims who refuse to learn Danish, who refuse to look for work, who live on the generosity of the Danish taxpayer — the same Danish taxpayer they look down upon with contempt.

See Queen Margarthe’s book. And then look at poor Queen Elizabeth’s once-great island. There, young Muslim women simply disappear and the police look on helplessly. Or they look away. What else can they do without the backing of government and monarch?

It is past time for the Queen of the United Kingdom to insert her age-old magisterial authority into a situation that impinges on Britain’s survival.

Old Peculier (nice idea to name yourself after a Yorkshire ale --? Theakston's?)I can understand your dislike of those who are concerned about the UK’s honor killing problem. However, complaining about our reporting it isn’t going to change the fact that it is dangerous to be a Muslim woman in the UK.

I have two excerpts here, but just google some variation of “honor killings in the UK” or “unsolved honor killings UK” and see what you come up with. It’s not pretty.

Here’s one report, originally from Yahoo news, that aged out and is no longer available as a link:

In the UK, police estimate that 2 Muslim girls per week go missing, forcibly repatriated to their countries to be murdered by relatives for refusing to marry the men chosen for them. Meanwhile, genital mutilation of young girls in the EU continues. Some more troubling stats: in the UK, Muslim women have a suicide rate FOUR times the indigenous average.

Nazir Afzal, director of Britain's Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in west London where there is a large south Asian community, says there have been at least a dozen honor killings in the country in the past year. "And murder is just the tip of the iceberg," he said. "There are other crimes, like rape, abduction and physical violence, which we would consider steps on the stairway to murder." ...Reunite, a charity which campaigns to stop child abduction, estimates that around 1,000 British Asian girls are forced into marriage each year [some brides rebel, prompting the honor killing, RvB]. Between a third and a half are minors. ...London's police [have] set up a task force to tackle the issue and it is re-examining over 100 unsolved murder cases to see if they may have been honor crimes, even though they were not recognized as such at the time. […]…"I've certainly seen more cases of honor crime since July 7 [the day of the London subway bombings]," said Afzal. "When communities perceive themselves to be under threat they tend to turn in on themselves, regardless of whether that perception has any basis in fact. They try to restore and reinforce their own social norms. They put pressure on their own members to conform, and if they don't conform there is sometimes some kind of retribution." Next time you hear a blanket statement about Islam being a "religion of peace," remember Rukhsana Naz, Heshu Yones, and thousands of other young women who were unceremoniously butchered like worthless pigs — utterly abandoned by friends, neighbors, and relatives who, even after the fact, preferred looking the other way to turning in the callous murderers.

In the cases in Britain in which a girl refuses to go to Pakistan and meet her new "husband", she is often bundled off to Pakistan anyway, but never comes back. When teachers become concerned and make enquiries, the parents claim she's "staying with relatives" in some remote village. Most often, she is dead. Exporting Muslim girls to murder them in the comfort of their own culture is not uncommon among Muslims in Britain and saves a lot of bother with the police.But despite the conspiracy of silence, the one-way overseas trips and cover-ups, police estimate that there are 117 "honor killings" still unsolved in Britain. According to London's Daily Telegraph, Scotland Yard, announcing an initiative, said there is "growing evidence that women in the Asian community [British media code for Muslim] are being subjected to violence and sometimes murdered for defying cultural traditions."

And then, there is my main point: the Queen of Denmark has spoken and written forcefully about the Muslim refusal to assimilate in Denmark. Her cousin in the UK should do the same. It would raise the morale of her subjects and of her police officers, who have a rough go of it. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Can you explain to me why Queen Elizabeth maintains silence in the face of this cultural destructon?

Queen Elizabeth does not speak about politics at all. That is not her role. Prince Charles does, however, and I think he is the one who should address these issues.

Yes, there are enormous problems in the Muslim community with their treatment of women. But to imply that the police look away is quite wrong. They do their best. And when these cases come to court, there has not to date been any instance of making allowances for "culture". Honour killings have been treated as murder pure and simple on every occasion.

I think it should go further, and that "honour killing" should be recognised in law as a kind of aggravated murder.

But this is not a matter for the Queen. It is a matter for Parliament.

She made a moral statement. Same as if she said, that people shouldent steal or that we should be kind to other people.

Here on GoW, you are wery kind to the danes, and that is allways nice to read. I do however agree with Old Peculier, as I inteprete what he wrote.

it can get iritating to read, when people say stuff like "England, France or Europe is lost to Islam, Dhimmified or whatever". We all have the same problem or are soon going to get it. All over the west, sensible people are worried.

Its an extra pain to be called out, as having lost allready, just becouse we share space with people, who dont have a clue.

If the west falls, some places will fall before others. There realy isnt any reason for the last places to fall to laugh to hard at those who fall first. I dont meen anyone here is doing that, but it happens.

By the way Old Peculier, what does "Twaddle" meen.? Wonderfull word, that I have never seen before.

Old Peculier wrote: What I dislike is sweeping generalisations made by Americans and other foreigners who have very little knowledge of what they are talking about.

Generalizations happens when you don't have all the facts or is trying to make a point in simple terms... Deal with it it happens all across the board, and if the generalizations are based in faulty facts then help by providing information that will set the matter straight. You have a voice here, use it to make us aware of what we are missing from the picture.

Phanarath - "twaddle" means "nonsense", or "rubbish". It is a good word, I agree.

I'm female, by the way, though "Old Peculier", a beer, is not a very feminine name, so it is understandable that you thought I was a man.

I post at Jihadwatch as "Interested", and also at the New English Review as "Mary Jackson". Perhaps I have been reading JW too long, but I get fed up with Americans saying Britain is lost to dhimmitude, often on the base of a story that turns out not to be true about piggy banks being banned somewhere. Most American posters there confuse what is written in The Guardian and the BBC with what ordinary people think. This is the equivalent of us thinking that you all think like Michael Moore or Ward Churchill, and is perfectly ludicrous. American posters also tell us that the British National Party is our only hope, despite having no knowledge of these neo-Nazis, and they continue to hold to this position when confronted by the extensive knowledge and direct experience of UK posters.

So yes, sweeping generalisations do not help. In this particular case, the implication was that the UK does nothing about honour killings. That is absolute nonsense. As I said above, honour killings are regularly prosecuted, treated as murder like any other killlings with no "dhimmi" allowances for "culture" and the police have recently begun to treat this as a special category of murder and set up a task force to deal with it.

Irritatingly they use "Asian and African" when such killings usually happen in Muslim communities. (They do happen among Hindus and Sikhs too.)

I'm not sure that it is the job of the Queen to speak about this, but there are plenty of other people who should be. Tony Blair for instance. Some do, notably Anne Cryer, Labour MP for Keighley.

old peculier, you're right sweeping generalizations doesn't always work! But as an outsider it is hard to know all the facts and background information and given the stories coming out of the U.K. it is hard to see anything else than a society under a constant Islamic barrage and with politicians, police and other authorities running around without a clue as what to do about the situation other than trying more and more appeasement. (e.g. arresting peaceful anti-muslim demonstrators in a demonstration for support of the Danes, but nothing against the muslims with very vile messages in the anti-cartoon demonstrations. Inviting muslims to be privy to sensitive information in terror investigations. The ongoing blatant pro-palestinian and pro-islam bias of the Guardian and the BBC. Prince Charles flirtations with Islam. The disasterous secret pact between the MI6 and Islamists causing them to have a free haven in Britain without surveillance. and the list goes on). With information like this coming out of Britain it is hard to see anything else than a society that is slowly collapsing and doesn't seem to have a clue about how to get out of the mess it is in.

If I'm wrong, and I would love to be proven wrong... then please enlighten me and others. I would hate for Britain to lose this battle against Islam! The alternative is rather scary!

Generalizations made for the point of comparison are not "twaddle" and to use a reductio ad absurdum to make your point doesn't strengthen it.

Come to think of it, *no one* is as good at sweeping, condescending generalizations about Americans as are the Brits (not even the French). Lord knows I listened to them at the dinner table often enough, and met visitors who all thought they were de Tocqueville come to set us Yanks straight about health care, guns and crime, etc., and how much better things were in the UK.

I take my cue these days from the dysphoric Theodore Dalrymple, who has moved from Britain to France to get away from what he sees as an unhappy and dysfunctional place -- though I am not as severe about it as he is.

The UK site Civitas has a pdf file titled "The Failure of Britain's Police." Civitas is not on the same plane as The Guardian.

I am familiar with the Guardian's slant, given the fact that one of their journalists is a known terrorist and it was he who was the reporter on the Pakistani schoolgirl whose cause Mrs. Blair took up...and the PM's wife's behavior here is just another example which makes my point.

There is no law forbidding the Queen or any member of the royal family from speaking on affairs which affect the country. And the demoralization of the populace is one case where her subjects would be happy to hear from her. It is not making policy to say, as Margrethe did, that people who come to her country should assimilate and that people should help them do so. In fact, M. said that it was her fault, and the Danes' fault, for "being lazy" about making sure assimilation took place. I admire anyone willing to shoulder part of the blame.

Aside from Civitas, or Anthony Daniels or Mark Steyn, there are many outspoken people in the UK who are lamenting the decline...and they often follow it with "but I won't be here to see the final curtain so what does it matter?"

Such an attitude is sad...

And the fact that someone is setting up a "task force" is a sure sign that nothing will change. Having mis-spent my time on a few of these committees, I know the scope of their impotence. They are simply devices for keeping things the way they are...unless of course, this particular task force was given the teeth to actually implement the changes it will suggest...

1. In fact Muslims were arrested for protesting the cartoons. The case against one has been dropped for lack of evidence, but the others are facing public order charges. Non-Muslims were not arrested, though, disgracefully, one was threatened with arrest.

2. Society under a constant Islamic barrage? What does this mean? Nothing.

3. Yes, the BBC and the Guardian are biased against Israel, but the Times, Telegraph and tabloids are not.

4. Prince Charles preaches a woolly multiculturalism and is a left over hippy who, as I have pointed out, believes in coffee enemas. However, there is no evidence of any conversion to Islam.

5. Our intelligence serivices have their faults, but they have foiled a large number of Islamic terrorist plots. You don't get to hear about those, certainly not on your side of the Atlantic.

So yes, while there are problems in the UK that should not be underestimated, the wild generalisations that come out of the US are just plain silly, and, to be honest, smack of Schadenfreude.

*no one* is as good at sweeping, condescending generalizations about Americans as are the Brits

Ha ha. And that isn't a sweeping generalisation?

How do you know that the police task force on honour killings is useless? Answer, you don't. You assume it. If honour killings are prosecuted you assume that there are a lot of them, so it can't be working. If none come to court, presumably you would assume that they were all being covered up.

Either way, the UK is rushing headlong into dhimmitude and there is no hope for us.

Happy?

Has Bush spoken out about honour killings in the US - and they happen there? No? Well that must prove ... er...what exactly?

2. Society under a constant Islamic barrage? What does this mean? Nothing.

It means a great deal, if the society isn't taking proper steps to stop such barrage, otherwise the pressure will increase until society eventually buckles under. And with the British immigration rules more muslims can always be imported to step up the pressure. And what steps are the British authorities taking to stop the barrage?

3. Yes, the BBC and the Guardian are biased against Israel, but the Times, Telegraph and tabloids are not.

Don't know about the tabloids, but the only one that seems to be somewhat consistent in being critical of Islam, muslims etc. is the Telegraph (judging mostly from the editorials).

4. Prince Charles preaches a woolly multiculturalism and is a left over hippy who, as I have pointed out, believes in coffee enemas. However, there is no evidence of any conversion to Islam.

Perhaps not a conversion (that would ruin his chances of becoming King completely) but appeasement galore, and the multiculturalism is a strategy that will break down any society, history have shown that over and over again.

I agree about immigration - in fact I think we could follow Denmark in this respect too - severely restricting importation of foreign spouses. I'd ban all Muslim immigration full stop.

Our Queen does not talk about these things. No law against it, but it is not the way we do things. However, the judge in this recent honour killing case, and judges in other cases have made some robust statements. These reach everybody as we have national newspapers here with wide circulation. But I think politicians should speak out more. And if the Queen did say something it would be good.

The Times is also critical of Muslims, though not consistently so - it depends who's writing.

The Sun and The Mail are not exactly fond of them. You must have read Melanie Phillips.

We should be on the same side. I'm a great supporter of most things American. Not all things, obviously - your football is barmy. I just think that constructive suggestions rather than wholesale condemnation, are the way forward.

Thank god there is one European country that still operates from a context of right and wrong, rather than laissez faire multiculturalism.

As an Englishman, who regards himself proudly first as a European, and is living in the US: I am aghast at what is happening to many countries in my home continent. Tolerance of the intolerant; stigmatization of traditional national values as 'racist' and 'colonialist'; discrediting 'our' religions while protecting 'theirs' from being offended by the mildest of criticisms. Meanwhile a racist and colonialist empire organized around a fanatical religiosity is slowly building power amongst you. Meanwhile, bullies are intimidating those leaders who've lost belief in the legitimacy of defense against cultural attack.

Old Peculier—the reason some Americans think the only hope for the British is the BNP is probably that there is a gaping hole in the spectrum of political parties, between the BNP and the pro-multiculturalist Tories. Perhaps the ordinary British people don't think like the Guardian and the BBC, but in that case these ordinary people seem to lack political representation. (Though this is not a problem unique to Britain.)—Mr. Spog, Canada

the reason some Americans think the only hope for the British is the BNP is probably that there is a gaping hole in the spectrum of political parties, between the BNP and the pro-multiculturalist Tories.

Also the fact that they haven't the first clue what they are talking about.

If I said the only hope for the US was the KKK, would that make any sense?

For the last 6 years, we had a rightwing gorverment in Denmark, while Sweden had a Socialist one. And the differences are becomming more and more clear.

Socialist goverments cant handle muslim emigration, simply becouse they wiew emigrants as culturaly handicapt people who has to be taken special care of. This is especialy problematic with many muslims, becouse it fits with their own idea, of being special people that should have special rights over non muslims.

The muslims will keep screaming for more and more special treatment, and the socialist will keep trying to solve the problems by using more and more resurses on the muslims.

The Socialist are not realy dhimmified. They just look at the muslims, as being sick in a way. Then they try to give them what they ask for, hoping it will make them better.

But when people compare hov different contries are doing, a picture should become more and more clear. Socialism combined with Muslim emigration is a terible mix. Then we will see more and socialist goverments fall in europe, and hopefully things will start getting better.

You're correct that Denmark have had a right-wing government for the last 6 years, but it wouldn't have made much difference if it hadn't been for the Dansk Folkeparti (Danish People's Party), who singlehandedly have been able to put immigration and muslims on the public agenda in a way so that no party in Denmark could avoid the issues without losing at the elections. Without the DPP the other right-wing parties would have ignored the situation and quite likely have acted like most other European politicians. Just look at how a lot of politicians from both the Conservative party and Venstre are pining for a VKR (Venstre-Conservative-Social Liberal) government, which would be a very bad thing for Denmark, because of the Social Liberal's (Radikale) multi-cultural bias.

As for whether the socialists are dhimmified or not it doesn't really make a difference what label you stick on them the end result is the same, their policies end up spending the country's wealth on the muslims, don't force them to integrate, open the floodgates for more to come into the country and press on with harmonizing Danish immigration policies with the lowest common denominator of EU (and hail that as a victory!) So if they walk like a duck, quack like a duck... it really doesn't matter what you call it... it's pretty obvious what it is!

And lastly I don't think that the socialists consider the muslims as handicapped, but they have certainly bought into the victimology of the muslims, and the collective guilt complex of the West... thus obligating them to help these poor victims of Israeli, and Western oppression. And the fact that they share the same arch-enemy USA and Bush in particular makes them the perfect ally (q.v. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”).

In the end analysis the enemy isn't so much Islam, the enemy is the decay in our own societies... The multi-culturalists which goes deep into European right-wing parties, the socialists who seem quite intent on breaking down national states (replacing them with non-democratic structures such as EU) and the dumbing down of the public by the politicians, MSM and intelligensia and the pervasive influence of political correctness! If our societies weren't rotten at the core, Islam wouldn't be a threat to us, now that it is... Islam is a mortal enemy!

Everything you write is very inteligent and well informed. You are right about Dansk Folkeparti. The gorverment couldent have done much without them. I dont think they could have done much had they had the majority alone. They simply wouldent have had the guts to go against mainstream, the way Dansk Folkeparti forced them to.

I think however thats its important to see the differences on the left. What you discribe, is definatly there. But I think it only covers a minority of the left.

I remember with the expansion of EU to the east, there was a lot of trouple with people being worried about losing jobs to workers from the east. As far as I remember, that was mostly leftwingers protesting. And those where the leftwingers, that wasnt covered in your discription. The non akademic left, the traditional working class people.

Those leftwingers have no hatred for USA, Israel or the West. Most of them consider themselves many times better then any Muslim. If they want to help them, and its becouse they consider them to be weak, and unable to handle themselves. And had they been asked they wouldent have wanted them to come in the first place.

The reason why I think this is so important, is that I think a huge part of the left can be won over. But they will not be won over by calling them Dhimmies.

If you tell them, that they are out to destroy the west and that they cant wait to live under Sharia. Then they are going to think, that you are nuts. And then they are going to think, that everything else you say must be nuts also.

Just think about Dansk Folkeparti, they didnt get their voters from the rightwing parties. Most of their voters came from the left. From the part of the left, that I am trying to discribe here.

The akademic-left tried to stop people from going to DF, by demonising them, called them Xenophopic & rasist. But it backfired at them, and they have been pretty much in the defense ever since.

We shouldent make the same mistake. We shouldent demonice the left. Its only going to close the ears of those that would othervise hear us.

The Muslims will whether they like it or not, be a huge help in making people see whats going on. Its in their nature to make trouple. There will be more and more absurdities in the future. More and more people will see whats going on.

The left you discribe is real. But I think it might be less then 10 %. They just make a lot of noise, and have been succesfull in controling the agenda.

I don't think you should demonize anybody, however, you should hold people accountable for what they have done. And I certainly disagree that I'm only describing 10% or less of the left. It all depends on how you define left... if you use US terms the left starts within the ranks of Venstre and Conservatives and continues all the way to Enhedslisten. The remaining parts are populists (DPP) and centrists. The left I'm (mostly) talking about is the Social-liberals, Social Democrats and SF and Enhedslisten (about 47% of votes in last election). Some Social Democrats can possibly be won over, but most of those who could are now found in the ranks of DPP voters... The rest they are caught in the spin of their own ideology... they have been forced open their eyes to some of the problems with muslim immigration, but they are oblivious to the root causes. They see the problem as an internal and domestic problem, in the sense that muslim immigration is not the problem, it is how we treat the muslims once they get here... in other words we have to change to accomodate them, if they won't integrate that's our fault, and who are we to say that our ways of doing things are better than theirs, the list goes on ad nauseam.

So while they might not be dhimmis in the original meaning of the word, they certainly are acting like ones and reaching far into the current government. And I don't think that it will hurt to point that out not to demonize but to explain and put things into the proper context. And as to closing their ears, I think it's too late for that for most as they have already made their mind up... See in their mind Fogh is a puppet of GWB, DPP is a neo-nazi party under influence of some dark unenlightened priests, and Denmark is lost because we're participating in the war against terror in Iraq and Afghanistan... But most of all because they see the problems with Islam as a domestic problem, with the Danes being the problem that is!

We certainly do. Muslims in particular live off the taxpayer. Cutting welfare benefits - and only a right wing government will do this - is a good way to discourage immigration, and also to force the Muslims that are already here to get off their a*se and work, which will give them less time to plot jihad.

Mogens Glistrup is no longer active in politics after having lost too many battles both political and legal. He was the first politician though to warn about the Muhammedan danger, but he was too early and he became the laughing stock of people. And he is now an old man in poor health. Fremskridtspartiet is no more, only the faction with Pia Kjærsgaard that broke away and formed Dansk Folkeparti (DPP).

Mogens Glistrup is still alive, but he dosnt involve himself in the puplic anymore. "Fremskrits Partiet" split do to some internal disagrements, and "Dansk Folkeparti" was formed - About 15-20 years ago, I think. Fremskrits Partiet still being Nationalistic/Ultraliberal, and Dansk Folkeparti Being Nationnalistic/Social Democrats.

About 10 years ago Glistrup went out in puplic and said, that we should get rid all Muslims, and that they where only here to kill us all. Those that wouldent leave by themselves, should roundet up. And some he said could posibly be sold as slaves. F.eks. if a country in southamerika could use a 100 little girls, them we could sell them to them.

Everyone was offcouse shocked by the things he said, and he also served time for saying it. But at the same time it was surreal. That man has said so many wierd things, that he wasnt considered normal in any way, most people considered him to be a sort of brilliant/lunatic. Most people just dismissed it as being crazy talk.

From then on it was like a spell had been broken in Denmark. Suddely people where oppenly saying things that only a very few had dared to speak about before. Its not that people agreed with Glistrup. But the bounderies had been moved. The PC left where groggy, they didnt know where to set in, and ended up attacking in all directions.

Fremskrits partiet finaly went out of influence 6 years ago, while Glistrup was trying to make a political comeback. Since then he hasnt been a puplic figure.

Zonka

Again what you say is true. I think, that what I would very much like to point out, is that: Very few people are as well informed, as you. A lot of people dont see Muslims as a danger, simply becouse they know that they are. they dont have bad will or an evil Maxist plan, they just dont know the danger.

Well it is sort of an evil maxist plan, that they are keept in the dark like that. people better edjucated then themselves, keep telling them, that the only problem is their own Xenophobia. Serius brain washing is going on. People are being told not to discriminate and not to generalise, and are therefore without meens to even think, about what is happening.

When flags and embasies where burning, around 80 % surported Jyllandsposten. That was the gut reaction, when things got bad. Next time; and there will be a next, I can easely imagine that to be 90 %.

maybe I am babling now. As for people who are wellinformed, I totaly share your wiews. But as for all the people out there who dosnt read a paper everyday. I have great faith in them, and it isnt realy something that can be discused rationaly.

I just have faith. Salvation will come from the left ! (hehe)

I realy enjoy dabating with people here. You are so brilliant and wellinformed, its a pleasure.

We will win the conflict with Islam, I'm sure of that! However, unless we find a way for the Europeans to replenish themselves it might all be for nothing, at the moment European fertility rate (children per woman) is about 1.5 which is shrinking, the fertility rate needs to be at least 2.1 for the population to rise.... so maybe you're right that the salvation will come from the left -- “make love not war” or at least make lots of babies... so perhaps the pope isn't so stupid when he thunders against contraceptives ;-)