What a crock of ****. I don't think they are sinners at all actually. So spare me the melodrama.

So if you think my stance that I can dislike/disagree with a gay individual and call them out for being an ass and not be homophobic is **** then you must think that disagreeing/disliking with a gay individual is homophobic.

If that is the case then you are heterophobic, sexist and racist for disagreeing with a straight white male. See how stupid that sounds?

Ha, ok. I thought you were LDS. My bad, i apologize.

Still, this issue isn't limited to homosexuals. Race, sex, weight, age, status, etc. are all used to call out people who don't like others, and are used that way all the time. Being called a homophobe for not liking someone who is gay is not limited to gay people. It happeds to everyone, everyday, all the time. Complaining about it just makes you look whiney, besides if it's not true why do give such a huge **** about it?

Still, this issue isn't limited to homosexuals. Race, sex, weight, age, status, etc. are all used to call out people who don't like others, and are used that way all the time. Being called a homophobe for not liking someone who is gay is not limited to gay people. It happeds to everyone, everyday, all the time. Complaining about it just makes you look whiney, besides if it's not true why do give such a huge **** about it?

I am LDS (kind of). That arguement is no more valid than the one you are fighting against. You want to debase and generalize about a demographic while fighting that being done to another demographic. However no I do not see a gay man and think "sinner". I have enough of my own problems to deal with to worry about his.

As for your mention of racist, age, weight...that is why we have included several of those terms through out the thread.

As for the complaining part. If you do not think that gays are sinners then why complain about it if you do not believe it to be true?

Me having a problem with being called a homophobe by someone that does not have the intellectual honesty or capacity to realise the true issue is nonsense and I won't stand for it. (Not singling you out in any way, general statement).

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. " - Edmund Burke

Yes that is an over dramatic quote for this topic but you see the point. Gay marriage, and full equal rights, should be immediately passed. However the attacking of any disagreement with the gay agenda or its members needs to stop as well. Two wrongs do not make a right.

It is also simply a pet peeve of mine. All this political correctness is a sham and a blight upon America. It actively prevents real issues from being discussed in a way that might actually get some results.

Just for the record Pete, I'm LDS, and I have no problem with gay marriage (I certainly don't consider my self the standard, tho...)

Still, this issue isn't limited to homosexuals. Race, sex, weight, age, status, etc. are all used to call out people who don't like others, and are used that way all the time. Being called a homophobe for not liking someone who is gay is not limited to gay people.

Any habitual action, such as eating or dressing, may be performed on the appropriate occasion, without any need of thought, and the same seems to be true of a painfully large proportion of our talk. -- Bertrand Russell

This thread has run its course, and nobody probably cares, but this is my perspective on GM, in a nutshell:

The problem is two-pronged.

1. Rights, privileges, and benefits extended to married couples. If there is inequity in any of these from heterosexual couples to homosexual couples, then one is not being treated equally, as the constitution guarantees. That's a problem. This would really be an easy fix, if it were the only issue. Make every "marriage", in the eyes of the gov't, a domestic partnership and extend the same rights to everyone. But, that isn't the only issue.

2. Essentially, one group is telling another group that the latter must abide by the former's beliefs. Admittedly, I used to think, "Why all the fuss over a title? Give a recognized domestic partnership the same rights as a marriage and everyone stop whining." I have since reconsidered my position. Being told that you can't have or be something that someone else can, because you're different by standards that are not your own, is irrational.

This thread has run its course, and nobody probably cares, but this is my perspective on GM, in a nutshell:

The problem is two-pronged.

1. Rights, privileges, and benefits extended to married couples. If there is inequity in any of these from heterosexual couples to homosexual couples, then one is not being treated equally, as the constitution guarantees. That's a problem. This would really be an easy fix, if it were the only issue. Make every "marriage", in the eyes of the gov't, a domestic partnership and extend the same rights to everyone. But, that isn't the only issue.

2. Essentially, one group is telling another group that the latter must abide by the former's beliefs. Admittedly, I used to think, "Why all the fuss over a title? Give a recognized domestic partnership the same rights as a marriage and everyone stop whining." I have since reconsidered my position. Being told that you can't have or be something that someone else can, because you're different by standards that are not your own, is irrational.

[QUOTE=Stoked;442545]I am LDS (kind of). That arguement is no more valid than the one you are fighting against. You want to debase and generalize about a demographic while fighting that being done to another demographic. However no I do not see a gay man and think "sinner". I have enough of my own problems to deal with to worry about his.[\QUOTE]

Ok, once you figure out whether or not you are LDS you let me know. Until then, do you believe homosexual sex to be a sin?

Yes that is an over dramatic quote for this topic but you see the point. Gay marriage, and full equal rights, should be immediately passed. However the attacking of any disagreement with the gay agenda or its members needs to stop as well. Two wrongs do not make a right.

So what is your disagreement with "the gay agenda"? BTW, if you are using the term "the gay agenda" to homosexuals I can see why they think you're a homophobe. Just sayin, your language is offensive.