NEW YORK  The problem of birds living near some of the nation's busiest airports is coming under renewed scrutiny after two emergency landings in a week and more than three years after the famous ditching of a jetliner in the Hudson River.

U.S. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand on Wednesday proposed making it easier to round up geese from a federal refuge near Kennedy Airport and kill them, an idea that's meeting opposition from wildlife advocates.

A JetBlue plane bound for West Palm Beach, Fla., made an emergency landing at Westchester County Airport north of New York City on Tuesday. A Los Angeles-bound jet made an emergency landing at Kennedy Airport after a bird strike on the right engine a week ago.

No one was hurt, but Grant Cardone, a sales training consultant who was on the flight out of Kennedy and was filming video from his window in seat 1D as the birds hit the plane, said it was scary.

"I felt like the plane was going to roll over on its right side," Cardone said. "Those five or six seconds were terrifying."

Cardone, 54, said he texted his wife that the flight was in trouble and added, "I love you and I love the kids." Afterward, the pilot managed to stabilize the plane and land.

Gillibrand's bill would empower the U.S. Department of Agriculture to remove Canada geese from the Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge during June and July when they are molting and can't fly.

Any tree worshiper that opposes this should be required to fly in and out of JFK 5 times a day,every day.JFK is,perhaps,the most important airport in the world and every day it handles everything from the biggest commercial aircraft in the world (the A380),dozens of 747s (probably more) and other jumbos from all over the world.

3
posted on 04/26/2012 5:05:06 PM PDT
by Gay State Conservative
(Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)

U.S. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand on Wednesday proposed making it easier to round up geese from a federal refuge near Kennedy Airport and kill them, an idea that's meeting opposition from wildlife advocates.

Canada geese are rats of the air. Getting rid of a few dozen or a few hundred near an airport has zero effect on their population.

Actually, the solution to the problem is pretty simple. Airliners just need the right technology to see when birds are on a collision course. If you can see them, you can avoid them. I know. The buzzard I hit at 500 knots was the one I hadn’t seen. I easily managed to miss all of his buddies that I did see. BTW, the collision put a 2-3 foot hole in the canopy of the F-4 I was flying. And the canopy on the F-4 is about 1/2 inch thick.

The co-pilot flying the USAir flight that went into the Hudson saw the geese, but he didn’t have the presence of mind to put some G on the plane, and pull up to avoid the floxk. Didn’t want to scare the passengers you know. But if he had known early enough, he could have started a gentle pull and missed them easily.

7
posted on 04/26/2012 5:12:57 PM PDT
by LukeSW
(The truth shall make you free!)

Actually, the solution to the problem is pretty simple. Airliners just need the right technology to see when birds are on a collision course. If you can see them, you can avoid them. I know. The buzzard I hit at 500 knots was the one I hadn’t seen. I easily managed to miss all of his buddies that I did see. BTW, the collision put a 2-3 foot hole in the canopy of the F-4 I was flying. And the canopy on the F-4 is about 1/2 inch thick.

The co-pilot flying the USAir flight that went into the Hudson saw the geese, but he didn’t have the presence of mind to put some G on the plane, and pull up to avoid the flock. Didn’t want to scare the passengers you know. But if he had known early enough, he could have started a gentle pull and missed them easily.

8
posted on 04/26/2012 5:13:26 PM PDT
by LukeSW
(The truth shall make you free!)

Kirsten Gillibrand can go f____ herself. Not only is she just a Schumer Mini-Me rubber stamp, without a brain to call her own, but she doesn’t know what she is talking about. The Federal preserve that she would just so casually exterminate the geese out of is Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge. It’s one of the gem birding spots of the East Coast.

It utterly breaks my heart, to the point of real tears, that after the July molting season, Bloomberg (may he drop DEAD VERY SOON, the b____d)has the then helpless and flightless Canada geese rounded up out of every NYC park—fathers, mothers, and their babies of the year—and stuffed into metal boxes which are then pumped full of carbon monoxide. It’s not the painless death you read about. You can hear the poor frightened frantic birds beating around inside. And then the parks are ghostly quiet until the fall, when more Canada geese migrate in. I want to shout out to them, “No, don’t make your home here, the Mayor will have you exterminated”, but of course, I can’t. So the only Canada geese one can see then are in the Jamaica Bay preserve. Which she wants to kill.

I have not heard that any program using Canada geese as food for the “homeless” has been successful. That’s just a pathetic way to try and justify the deaths of the geese.

If they didn’t want a bird problem, why did they build airports right near the migratory flightways of millions of birds? Duh. Then they’ll have to kill not only the geese, but starlings, sparrows, pigeons, and any other species which is unfortunate enough to be overtaken by a speeding jet.

Hey...you're the pilot and I'm not so I guess I have to accept what you say.I must admit that it's hard for me to imagine something a big as an A380 or 747 being able to avoid something like that when they're,say,50 feet off the ground.

14
posted on 04/26/2012 5:20:55 PM PDT
by Gay State Conservative
(Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)

You might not believe a 707 can do a barrel roll. But it can. Test pilot during development did it.

Normal airline operations don't allow extreme manuevers. But one hostile environment landing in a airliner being used for a troop carrier lets you know that they can do a whole lot more than we ever see in airline operations. I needed to change pants after the first one.

Said the animal rights whacko: “The killing just doesn’t work,” she said. “We have to focus on learning to coexist with these birds.”

Says the Guru: In all known cases, dead birds killed in airport avian population reduction programs were never found to be impacting aircraft.

As for coexisting with birds, mankind has, over the centuries, developed numerous and time tested methods of “coexisting” with birds. Recently, the microwave oven has opened new vistas in human-avian coexistence.

Yummers!

21
posted on 04/26/2012 5:58:42 PM PDT
by GladesGuru
(In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)

Border Collies are an excellent choice for scaring the 5hit out of these big birds. Borders can run all day, they’re obedient, they are incredibly smart, and they love to please their owners. These big birds will are far more likely to land if they see other birds there, but if they see borders, they won’t land.

The faces behind the names have hooked beaks. Their toes are flesh-piercing talons.

They are falcons, hawks and one nasty bald eagle named Ivan. They work at Pearson International Airport, from one hour before sunrise until one hour after sunset.

As employees of Falcon Environmental Services, they are charged with frightening away nuisance birds, eating them if necessary, so they dont wind up in airplane engines. Their payoff for a job well done? A tasty hunk of raw quail served by hand. ....

Interesting stuff, as far as it goes, but but near the end of the article...

For larger nuisance birds, such as geese, Shevalier relies on a five-year-old golden Lab, Tucker. Even as big as Ivan is, even the bald eagle wont take on an aggressive goose.

When I was still working at U of Dayton we had a big bird-strike project.

Part of the project was to develop computer models for predicting the effects of bird strikes on aircraft windscreens. That was funded by the Air Force. Our design of windscreens saved quite a few pilots lives.

My part of the project was funded by the FAA. It was in two parts. One involved developing statistical models to predict the likelihood of a bird being sucked into a jet engine, as a function of season, time of day, etc. The other was to develop a model for the likelihood of damage to the engine, as a function of bird weight. We had data available to us on literally hundreds of bird ingestions, world-wide.

That was nearly 20 years ago. I have no idea what the current situation is.

What an utterly STUPID reply. Yeah, and why don’t we just pave over everything so we won’t attract any birds? That would make it so worthwhile to take a nature hike through the woods to relax. There are other ways to reduce the goose population in a much more humane fashion. You can oil their eggs, which then don’t hatch. You can use border collies to make certain areas not pleasant for the geese. You can cut the grass in certain areas so as not to attract them. Etc. Etc.

“All birds in flight behave in a single manner when scared: the tuck their wings and dive. It isnt a matter of turning. It is a matter of altitude.”

Agreed, but from flying a Republic RC-3 in Florida where there are all too many buzzards, seagulls beyond number, and other avian pests, I agree with you about bird behavior when collision is at the SPLAT stage.

One flies below the avian pests at the risk of a batch of bird through the plexiglas. However, the flock can, and often will, turn into an approaching plane with no warning.

“Birdbrain” became proverbial for a reason. Hence, I am for hunting avian pests because it works, it brings to those deserving trough feeders in the gubbament hunting fees to keep their trough filled, and it provides small arms opportunities for the citizenry.

Besides, where else can one obtain fowl with bits of shot embedded at random intervals?

;-)

33
posted on 04/27/2012 4:00:01 AM PDT
by GladesGuru
(In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)

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