October 6, 2008

Althouse throws out some red meat for her hysterical rightwing base. A mindless feeding frenzy ensues. Good stuff, Althouse!

My response:

My point is -- call it red meat if you like -- that Palin did not grovel at the accusation of racism. She just went right for the point that she had to make... which was never racist. What's new is that she didn't bother to respond to the charge. She wasn't cowed by it. It was utter bullshit of course, and her response treated it as the bullshit it was.

Cyrus:

It's new that Palin is unresponsive to questions from the press? Really?

Meade:

Unresponsive to the charge of racism. Think about that, Cyrus. It is Palin, not Obama supporters, who is post-racial.

Well, it starts off with CNN claiming the remarks had a racial undertone. Then it goes to a scene of Palin responding to a shouted question on a runway in California.

PALIN: The Associated Press is wrong. The comments are about the association that has been known but hasn't been talked about. And I think it's fair to talk about where Barack Obama kicked off his political career, in the guy's living room. And he, of course, having been associated with that group, a known domestic terrorist group, it's important for Americans to know. It's really important for Americans to start knowing who the real Barack Obama is.

CNN then goes on to quote the Obama campaign's talking points, and downplays Ayers as merely having old "ties" to the terrorist group he founded and designed bombs for. The usual, basically.

If John McCain goes after Obama and his lies and incompetence tomorrow night like he did today, he will turn this thing around.

Obama is responsible for the economic mess we're in now. McCain tried to stop it in the last several years, but didn't have the votes, especially with the Democrats in Fannie's and Freddie's pockets. Why should we trust Obama's economics going forward?

For those who can't see the video, a reporter shouts, 'The AP called your remarks about Barack Obama yesterday are racially tinged. What do you think about that?"

She said the AP is wrong, and comments are about an assocaition that has been known, but hasn't been talked about and that he kicked off his political career in the living room of a man who had ties to domestic terrorist group and the American people have a right to know who the real Barack Obama is.

The CNN annoucer says, the Obama campaign said that when he kicked off his career in the living room of Bill Ayers he did not know,(he repeats) did NOT aware of Ayers past ties with the radical group the Weatherman.

I love how the CNN annoucer goes to bat for Obama accentuating he did NOT KNOW. Has "ties." So freakin in the tank.

And that Obama would like us to believe, that he had NO idea who this guy was. Unbelievable.

The question, on the tarmac: "The Associated Press called your comments about Obama yesterday racially tinged (on the repeat, includes: and unsubstantiated). What do you think about that?

Palin is signing autographs; the reporter repeats the question. It is very windy there.

Palin's response: The Associated Press is wrong. The comments are about the association that has been kown but hasn't been talked about. And I think it's fair to talk about where Barack Obama kicked off his political career, int he guy's living room. And he, of course, having been associated with that group, a known domestic terrorist group, it's important for Americans to know. It's really important for Americans to start knowing who the real Barack Obama is.

(According to CNN's captions, which match the dialog well.)

The anchor closes the segment by noting that the Obama campaign maintains that in 1995, Obama was unaware "of Ayers' past ties with the radical group, the Weathermen".

Sen. Clinton couldn't push the issue because her husband pardoned two Weather Underground lunatics on his last day in office. Susan Rosenberg and Linda Evans. A pair of stone-cold killers. Look 'em up.

The GOP has held back on this until now because it knows that it will take the story several weeks to peak. Most people have only started to pay attention to the race. Now--tomorrow at the debate--this is going to be the issue everyone's buzzing on.

If you think about it, the GOP's doing guerilla warfare against the mainstream media.

Any minute now some TV reporter is going to chase down Ayers and get him to say something stupid. Or, even better, is there anyone in Chicago with a video camera? Just go to the guy's office and do a Mike Wallace ambush....

The FBI is still hunting Weather Underground lunatic Elizabeth Ann Duke who skipped bail in 1985. Here's the Wanted Poster.

Elizabeth Ann Duke wanted by the FBI for UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF UNITED STATES IDENTIFICATION; CONSPIRACY; UNLAWFUL STORAGE OF EXPLOSIVES; UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARMS AND DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES; STORAGE AND CONCEALMENT OF STOLEN EXPLOSIVES; UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIVE OR MORE FALSE IDENTIFICATION DOCUMENTS; POSSESSION OF COUNTERFEIT SOCIAL SECURITY CARDS; AIDING AND ABETTING; UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF DOCUMENT-MAKING IMPLEMENT

Wouldn't you think so? The media has sought out everyone they can think of when it comes to stories about Palin. Somehow, it never occurs to them to check out Barry's Ayers connection. The lack of curiosity is just stunning.

If John McCain goes after Obama and his lies and incompetence tomorrow night like he did today, he will turn this thing around.

Maybe, Host. I am hopeful but think it might be too late.

Carmela: Abt that anchor.

That's JD Roberts, now known at CNN as John Roberts. My BF is Canadian, and so is Roberts. He used to be a music veejay, apparently. He was at CBS, because I recall he was the colour-commentator during John Paul II's funeral (he did well).

To anyone who doesn't believe in "liberal media bias", I give you as evidence Rick Sanchez, the old local Miami news anchor.

I have a friend who's related to him, and I was invited to a BBQ party when he, his wife, and kids arrived.

One of the most right-wing Cuban guys you can imagine. But since he joined CNN, he's become unflinchingly liberal.

I wonder how that happens. Is it an editorial line that you kind of pick up, and you go along, because you want to please your bosses? Or is it a personal transformation?

They had a business together for years. "Guy in the neighborhood" is a ruse. Obama consorts with known terrorists then plays stupid. Thank goodness he has a willingly blind and stupid group of disciples.

Reporter: It said your comments about Obama yesterday were racially tinged and unsubstantiated.

Palin: The Associated Press is wrong. The comments are about an association that has been known but hasn't been talked about. And I think it's fair to tak about where Barack Obama kicked off his political career, in the guy's living room. And he, of course, having been associated with that group, a known domestic terrorist group, it's important for Americans to know...

[Reporter tries to interrupt]

Palin: It's really important for Americans to start knowin' who the real Barack Obama is.

He's up by 10 in the 4th quarter, he's got a decent running game, but other than that, no plan past counting on the other guys' incompetence and biased refs.

I'm sure I don't need to mention. the media are the biased refs.

BTW, McCain deserves to lose based on how he has handled his campaign. Except for a moment in late July to mid August, where he used Obama's hubristic trip around the world against him, he has run a ridiculously neutral campaign.

The only political move was choosing Sarah Palin as his running-mate, other than that, he's been a boy scout. Ugh.

More Americans appear to have an unfavorable view of Gov. Sarah Palin, and that may also be helping Obama in the fight for the presidency. Forty percent now have an unfavorable view of Palin, up from 27 percent a month ago and from 21 percent in late August, when McCain surprised many people by picking the first-term Alaska governor as his running mate.

"A majority of Americans now believe that Sarah Palin would be unqualified to serve as president if it became necessary, and her unfavorable rating has doubled," Holland said.

The Savings and Loan scandal was the predecessor to today's financial crisis. How McCain handled himself and what he learned speaks volumes to how competent and ethical he would be if granted the power of the White House.

For sure, not. In classic Marxist style, they saw a willing, and able front man.

This is what he has been the whole of his life. The front man of men who know their words and actions are alienating to people. From Ayers, to Wright, and now to Soros, they all realise he's a pliable man, because he's internationalist by disposition, and has an overweening ambition to be validated.

VB - I am with you on that point - McCain deserves to lose if he can't beat a known Marxist who sits in an anti-American, racist church for 20 years and hears nothing, who wasted millions of dollars on "organizing" while working with a terrorist. If you lose to Obama you have earned a degree of political ignominy that is stunning.

As for liberals knowing nothing of their Beloved Leader, go do your own research, you close-minded fools. Read something other than Kos.

"But Michelle could also frustrate her supervisors. Quincy White, the partner who helped recruit Michelle and who headed the marketing group, remembers finding her a challenge to manage. White, who is now retired from the firm, says he gave her the most interesting work he could find, in part because he wanted to see her advance, but also because she seemed perennially dissatisfied.

She was, White recalls, "quite possibly the most ambitious associate that I've ever seen." She wanted significant responsibility right away and was not afraid to object if she wasn't getting what she felt she deserved, he says.

Strong, ambitious women are always accused of trying to want too much, too soon. But whereas some women go up the ladder themselves, like Palin did in her career, Michelle Obama wanted the juiciest plums as a matter-of-course.

"He's not the Bill Ayers I used to know and respect. In fact, for 21 years, I didn't know the guy at all...or he did something despicable when I was 8 years old. Now let's talk about our plans for these 57 states of ours..."

The anchor closes the segment by noting that the Obama campaign maintains that in 1995, Obama was unaware "of Ayers' past ties with the radical group, the Weathermen".

Okay. Let's stipulate that in 1995, Obama had no idea that Bill Ayers was a founding member of the Weathermen and that Ayers declared war against the United States in 1970 while John McCain was in prison. You're aware of it now, Barack and all you can say is he was just some guy in your neighborhood? Yyyeah, and Ted Kennedy just forgot he had driven his car into the ocean

Um, Bill Ayers considers himself a communist (with a small 'c', mind you) and yet he lives in the expensive Hyde Park neighborhood in Chicago. In fact, almost every American I've ever met that considers themselves a "Marxist" was carrying a Prada handbag. Have you ever heard of "cognitive dissonance"? Oh right, you're still working on the "cognition" part.

Do you think that if McCain loses you've heard the last of Sarah Palin? Think again, missy. Hehehe.

Exactly.

Obama will take office next year. The economy will be heading downhill. It will keep heading downhill for years afterwards. Taxes will go up; government benefits, down.

Obama could try his usual political stunts. He could accuse the economy of being racist, for example. He could claim not to have heard that the economy was bad. He could blame George Bush, in 2009... and 2010... and 2011... and 2012. Odds that the American people will be interested in hearing a 100% Democratic government complain about Republicans four years from now: approximately 0%.

While the fact that Obama is a clueless newbie with no managerial skills is a downside for America, it is an upside for Republicans in 2012 (and possibly 2010). The Magic Negro won't be so magic anymore, and there will be a dynamic and charismatic two-term Alaskan governor heading the Republican ticket. :)

Furthermore, I know a communist when I hear one. Barack Obama lacks the basic understanding of capitalism and how it informs a market economy; of taxation and how changes to it can either uplift or degrade the lives of the people functioning within an economic system; of the role of government as the Founding Fathers envisioned it—not cradle to grave.

I replied:

I've been around very genuine, very scary Communists to know the difference between someone merely influenced by Marxism, as would include the majority of politicians in the world today, to a real one)

I mean, after all, I was also surrounded by History professors who were to a man, Marxist. And I escaped unindoctrinated.

In Obama's turn, his world view is anti-establishment. Patriotism. Religion. Capitalism. Anything that advances that cause, is suspect.

In fact, almost every American I've ever met that considers themselves a "Marxist" was carrying a Prada handbag.

Champagne socialists. Limousine Liberals.

That's why I respected the hippie doctoral students who would slog up Rio's most violent, putrid favelas, when I lived there. They dressed like bums, and stank of pitsweat, but they lived the same life as the people they studied for their Ph.D's. That's part of walking the walk.

Give me those activists over the phoney baloneys who live in rarified Chicago and New York neighbourhoods any day.

What Kind Of Campaign Is McCain Running?The sort of campaign in which a supporter can apparently yell, in response to the central question of McCain's speech today -- "who is the real Barack Obama" -- "terrorist!" The sort in which a crowd responds to McCain's portrayal of Obama as an alien outsider with a kind of visceral roar.

---

WHO THEY ARE, WHAT THEY'RE ABOUTSo we have McCain today getting his crowd riled up asking who Barack Obama is and then apparently giving a wink and a nod when one member of the crowd screams out "terrorist."

And later we have Sarah Palin with the same mob racket, getting members of the crowd to yell out "kill him", though it's not clear whether the call for murder was for Bill Ayers or Barack Obama. It didn't seem to matter.

These are dangerous and sick people, McCain and Palin. Whatever it takes. Stop at nothing.

Do you think that if McCain loses you've heard the last of Sarah Palin?

What so many of you fail to realize is that it is partly because of Palin that McCain is losing. The more people see her and hear her, the lower the McCain poll numbers go down.

The truly crazy thing is that Palin has been and would have been a popular pol had she not have been handled so horrifically by the McCain people. After being re-manufactured by McCain, she's totally toxic. The only way she'll have a future in national politics is if she goes away for a long time and re-emerges as her own person.

I disagree. She handled that as anyone could or would. The bar is so low now that "average" is "well"? What is this, something like ivy league grade inflation?

vbspurs:

But why does everyone ignore John McCain?

This is sweet. For 3 weeks, liberals complained that Sarah Palin was being sequestered.

(1) The "liberals", the "liberals." Like it's one huge identifiable mass? You shoul maniacal when you put everything you see that you disagree with in one blanket category.

(2) The jokes about Palin being everywhere and no one knowing anything about McCain have been around since the very beginning. Palin what's-his-name jokes (jokes he's used to, after all, the minister at his OWN WEDDING didn't remember his name when he announced the married couple!)

(3) The complaint wasn't that she wasn't around. The complaint was that she wouldn't be interviewed. Her comment wasn't made in an interview.

alphaliberal said...Well, I find the faux outrage over the Ayers connection to be a joke in light of the way Republicans dismiss Sarah Palin's much stronger connections to the Alaska Independence Party.

A wee bit hypocritical and it gives the lie to your claim to actually give a damn over Obama's tenuous connections to Ayers.

I forgot this one: "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

It was very unpatriotic for Sarah and Todd Palin to support an anti-American political party whose founder openly hates America.

Give me those activists over the phoney baloneys who live in rarified Chicago and New York neighbourhoods any day.

This was one of the things I hated the most about a great many of the students at my undergraduate institution in New York City. As Palladian says, "cognitive dissonance" indeed. I was up to my nose in it there. The stench was awful, and I very nearly choked on it.

Rev, I wish I had your optimism. Just check out the media response to McCain tonight. They are in full court press mode to protect Barry. Do you really believe they will give up once he is elecgted? Don't worry, no matter how bad things get, new narratives will be invented as necessary to keep him in office.

I once had faith that Americans could see through such emptiness. I don't believe that anymore. Once we have all become dependent victims, there is no turning back.

John McCain's candidacy is as much a casualty of Wall Street as Lehman or Merrill. Like those once vibrant institutions, McCain's collapse was stunning and quick. One minute you are a well-respected brand. The next you are yelling at the messengers of your demise as all around you the numbers start blinking red and stop adding up.

As Palladian says, "cognitive dissonance" indeed. I was up to my nose in it there.

Lorelei (great ID, BTW), I know the feeling. They are Leftists not because just because they believe in that ideology being better, but because it purifies them by extension.

Unfortunately, history has always shown that the rich Lefties are usually the first to get whacked when the various revolutions come along.

In 1917, the Liberal Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovitch led his Imperial Marines wearing red kerchiefs on their lapels and bayonets, down St. Petersburg's streets. He and his mother and brothers had long agitated against Tsar Nicholas II and his wife, and even planned to assassinate the Empress.

His cousin, Grand Duke Nicholas Mikhailovitch was an noted Historian of renowned Liberal political views. He befriended many Bolsheviks, and even allowed Maxim Gorky to hold clandestine meetings with them in his Palace. He greeted the Revolution with glee and appealed to Lenin to allow him to become the "Official" Marxist historian.

1 year after, Grand Duke Kirill was lifting his pregnant wife over a fence to escape by miracle to Finland, with Bolsheviks minutes away from slaughtering them.

Grand Duke Nicholas didn't become Official anything. They killed him along with the most conservative of his brothers.

Victoria, you live in a city full of those. They would deny it now, but many of them were indeed useful idiots. Search Miguel Angel Quevedo, director and owner of Revista Bohemia. I posted his suicide letter the other day.

Would the media go so far as to falsely accuse McCain/Palin of inciting violence against Obama for merely pointing that his friend was a terrorist?

Darcy, considering that many journalists have dropped very broad hints that there will be riots in America if Obama isn't elected President, I would say they are not in any position to insinuate anything.

I seriously think the commenters here are among the most informed that I've seen anywhere.

Thanks, Victoria. The thing is, before I went there, I fancied myself a liberal. I always knew there was a difference between liberal and left, but until going away to school, the difference was largely academic to me.

Of course, I knew I wasn't really a conservative either, though I'm probably more conservative than liberal. And I don't think of liberal as a dirty word like a lot of other conservatives. It was mostly the hypocrisy that bothered me, and the fact that the hypocrites were in so deep that they didn't even notice their hypocrisy.

Wonder what Israel will do vis-a-vis Iran if they think Obama is going to win or if he does win? Would Israel strike before Jan. 20 or before the election; if Israel hit Iran before our election, would Iran attack the U.S.?

No one knows much about what she did with Mossad in Paris. It involved "taking out Arab terrorists." Hot dates, guess.

"Both her parents were arrested for terrorist crimes in the 1940s. Her mother Sarah, who died recently aged 85, was a leader of Irgun, the militant Zionist group that operated in Palestine at the time of the British mandate and whose exploits included train robbery.

“I was disguised as a pregnant woman and robbed a train carrying £35,000,” she said in an interview shortly before she died. “Then we blew up another train en route from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv.”

Livni’s father, Eitan, was sentenced to 15 years in jail for attacking a British military base. He escaped."

After her convention speech, this is the Palin I thought we were going to see. Then she kind of fell apart. She's rebounding now, but I still maintain it's too late for her to make any real difference in this election now.

However, I think she is doing well to rehabilitate her image and solidifying a future for herself in national politics.

BTW Michelle O is going to be on Larry King tonight, for one of his hard hitting interviews. Can she hold on to her sweet persona for an entire hour? Every time I see her now, I think of Dr. Strangelove trying to hold his hand down...

Michelle's assigned roommate and her family at Princeton working to get a new roommate because they didn't want their daughter in the same room as a black woman.

Actually I don't care. This is uninteresting, and unworthy of blogging. But, vbspurs silliness is even less interesting.

And, I can't tell if Althouse is serious about her praise of Palin. This is the same line of attack that Palin's been repeating (almost half a dozen times) since Saturday.

And, nobody in the comments has fleshed out the Althouse comment. What is revolutionary? Does Althouse know about Palin's factual manipulation? If she does, what is revolutionary about deceit. If she doesn't know about Palin's manipulations, why is it revolutionary to repeat attacks?

Maybe Althouse didn't know that Palin has been saying this in fundraisers and in public for a few days.

I couldn't play the clip. So, I read through the comments looking for someone with a transcript, and I was expecting something impressive. Then, I read the statement; total let down.

Maybe my problem is that Althouse over-hyped the comment. I certainly was expecting more than Palin's already trite comment that she's been repeating for several days.

Not to mention that this blog is saturated with these types of comments. I have no idea why Althouse built up expectations here. I must be missing something.

Whether you agree with the commenters here, there is no denying that they are both informed and intelligent.

Then again, since you offer nothing by way of support for your position other than derisive laughter, perhaps I should amend my previous statement to say that some of the commenters here are among the most informed I've seen anywhere. Others are obviously not.

I mentioned it yesterday and I'll reiterate: I think Palin's foray is an attempt to bring Michelle Obama out of hiding. She engaged against Hillary in the primary and she will be unable to stay happily on message like Axelrod and her man.

Unfortunately, history has always shown that the rich Lefties are usually the first to get whacked when the various revolutions come along...

And this is, of course, something completely irrelevant to the discussion of an election in the United States or any other modern Western democracy. But, irrelevant comments and pointless asides are the stock-in-trade of Vicky, after all.

No surprise to see that the conservatives posting here, who are always going on and on about mean liberal incivility and oppression don't have much to say about people calling Obama a terrorist at a McCain rally, with McCain just nodding along, other than to try and change the subject.

"McCain seemed to pause, and didn't denounce the epithet. I'd argue that there's no way to arrive at a conclusive answer as to whether he heard it or not, short of asking him and getting a frank answer. McCain could have been pausing to admire the pith and artfulness of his smear, or to bask in the adulation it brought. And McCain is not responsible for what some whackjob yells at his rally."

I'm not sure how a stock response and recitation of talking points by Palin constitutes a new era. On the other hand, if you meant that we are entering a new era because Obama will be the next President, I'd say let's not get ahead of ourselves here. But, yes, that would be a new era, and a good one, if that's what was meant.

But the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”

And, the Associated Press:Her reference to Obama’s relationship with William Ayers, a member of the Vietnam-era Weather Underground, was exaggerated at best if not outright false. No evidence shows they were “pals” or even close when they worked on community boards years ago and Ayers hosted a political event for Obama early in his career. Obama, who was a child when the Weathermen were planting bombs, has denounced Ayers’ radical views and actions

CNN Factcheck:CNN Fact check wrote about Palin’s claim that Obama is palling around with terrorists, “Verdict: False. There is no indication that Ayers and Obama are now “palling around,” or that they have had an ongoing relationship in the past three years. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Ayers is now involved in terrorist activity or that other Obama associates are.”

And, from the Sun Times:Obama has said he ‘‘deplored’’ what Ayers did in the 1960s and that ‘‘by the time I met him, he is a professor of education at the University of Illinois. We served on a board together that had Republicans, bankers, lawyers, focused on education.

Sarah Palin lied through her teeth when she said Obama "palled around" with Ayers.

I actually was listening to Berlusconi the other day in Italy. The right-wing bastard that used to run Italy. And Berlusconi said people criticize us because we have so much power. But the truth is we don’t have the schools, and we don’t have the economy. And that’s very much what’s true in America. You know, if you look at a place like Chicago or if you look anywhere around the country, the right wing—it’s not just conservatives, it’s probably the most reactionary cabal of ideologues I’ve ever seen, operating with a very, very clear ideological purpose—control all three branches of the federal government, control many state governments, control the media—the kind of bought priesthood of the media that does nothing but bow down to them and kowtow to them. And yet, if you hear them talk, they’re whining about how little power they have, how marginal they are, how under attack they are. And on the one hand, you could say, oh that’s just demagoguery, those guys are bullshitting. But the truth is they see something that they know that we maybe don’t know so well, and that is their power is tenuous and short-lived. I think the reason we’re going to see the bombing of Iran is because they know that they have a little window here to do all the bad things that they’ve wanted to do, or in their view, to set the conditions for all the things that they would like to struggle for over the next decade. And they are going at their agenda with a fierce single-mindedness. And whether they are thrown out of power, the one public space that still irritates the crap out of them is education. And it is one of the public spaces that’s left to fight about.

Rev, I wish I had your optimism. Just check out the media response to McCain tonight. They are in full court press mode to protect Barry. Do you really believe they will give up once he is elecgted?

I don't think the press has that much power. Yes, they've been shamelessly promoting Obama's candidacy, but I don't think it has had a large impact. The main power of the press is the ability to refuse to cover stories -- e.g., the total lack of media curiosity about Obama's decades-long support of racist religious nuts. But the press can't "not cover" a bad recession; it can't "not cover" incompetent foreign policy. The main benefit Obama has enjoyed from the press -- its aid in maintaining his "blank slate" status -- evaporates the day he takes the oath of office.

You are certainly welcome, lorelei leigh. Thank you for your very funny joke!

Whether you agree with the commenters here, there is no denying that they are both informed and intelligent.

Compared to what? There are a few intelligent commenters here. However, there are far more partisan hacks who do little more than regurgitate the latest talking points that Rush has fed them. If you are impressed by that type of commentary, it says far more about you than it does about the quality of the comments.

Then again, since you offer nothing by way of support for your position other than derisive laughter

You mean you were serious?Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

perhaps I should amend my previous statement to say that some of the commenters here are among the most informed I've seen anywhere.

Maybe so ElcubanitoKC, but one can also draw the opposite conclusion. Perhaps someone should ask McCain about it, in the hopes he actually does give a frank answer. And that sort of rhetoric is pretty standard among conservatives these days, and I'm not seeing too many people here denouncing the comments in question.

Oh, and Darcy, the "terrorist" comment is on video, so your little media conspiracy theory won't work for that one.

Am I safe to say that in 2001, Obama had dealt with Ayers, having launched his career during a meet-and-greet at Ayer's house? Had he served with Ayers on the Wood Funds and Annenberg Challenge boards?

And you tell me that a guy who stepped on his country's flag, and claimed to be sorry he didn't go "far enough" in his terrorist activities, never shared these views with Obama, or that the latter wasn't aware of these sentiments, and didn't distance himself immediately?

No surprise to see that the conservatives posting here, who are always going on and on about mean liberal incivility and oppression don't have much to say about people calling Obama a terrorist at a McCain rally, with McCain just nodding along, other than to try and change the subject.

I'm only sort of a conservative, and I don't generally go on and on about mean liberal incivility and oppression (any more than I go on about conservative incivility and oppression, at any rate), but I'll bite anyway.

I don't like to hear these things. And I'm even more disturbed by the reports of someone shouting "kill him" in reference to Obama. I wish everyone would be a bit more civil. I was at an event this weekend with some very conservative friends, and the conversation turned to politics. The suggestion was made that Obama will probably be assassinated if he's elected. I was shocked at this, and even more when no one seemed to be too bothered at the prospect. I know these people well, and they're not bad people, but I found myself staring at them, wondering if these were the same people I thought I knew. It was truly illuminating.

I am big on civility on all sides. I do like the elections to be tough and I don't mind the negativity or ramping up of the rhetoric on both sides, but the kinds of things you're talking about do go beyond the pale. And you're right: conservatives don't jump up to condemn them, just like liberals don't jump up to condemn Sandra Bernhardt when she suggests that Palin should be gang raped or some such nonsense.

I'd like to think that even the truly partisan can be civil, but perhaps the fact that there is so much at stake in this - or in any - election makes that difficult. I honestly don't know. I do think that the ones yelling "kill him" or calling him a terrorist are in the minority, though. Perhaps it is best to just ignore them, and hope that once the election is over, regardless of the outcome, they'll return to resembling humans once again.

"And later we have Sarah Palin with the same mob racket, getting members of the crowd to yell out "kill him", though it's not clear whether the call for murder was for Bill Ayers or Barack Obama. It didn't seem to matter."

Compared to what? There are a few intelligent commenters here. However, there are far more partisan hacks who do little more than regurgitate the latest talking points that Rush has fed them. If you are impressed by that type of commentary, it says far more about you than it does about the quality of the comments.

And if you think that most of the commenters here are simply parroting Rush's talking points, then that says more about you than it does about the quality of the comments. And if you don't think the commenters here, even the conservative ones, are more informed than your average freeper, then the issue isn't really worth discussing any further.

I do not think people are unintelligent and uninformed simply because they disagree with me. I am sorry if you feel differently.

My point is -- call it red meat if you like -- that Palin did not grovel at the accusation of racism. She just went right for the point that she had to make... which was never racist. What's new is that she didn't bother to respond to the charge. She wasn't cowed by it. It was utter bullshit of course, and her response treated it as the bullshit it was.

Perhaps those of you who were not around in the '60's should read John Murtagh's "Fire in the Night" in City Journal.

During the April 16 debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator George Stephanopoulos brought up “a gentleman named William Ayers,” who “was part of the Weather Underground in the 1970s. They bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and other buildings. He’s never apologized for that.” Stephanopoulos then asked Obama to explain his relationship with Ayers. Obama’s answer: “The notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was eight years old, somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn’t make much sense, George.” Obama was indeed only eight in early 1970. I was only nine then, the year Ayers’s Weathermen tried to murder me.

This was not "protest" or civil disobedience, it was a criminal act.

Does anyone really believe that older progressive elites in Chicago don't talk about the '68 convention?

I know those of us who were at Cal in the '60's often retell events at gatherings, who sat in and did what to whom, it's a natural thing people do and there are younger people in the mix who know the history of the times.

I find it entirely unbelievable that Ayers and Dohrn do not reminiscence with friends in their home.

Palladian - missed the commie star on the t-shirt. Just in case we were confused about Ayers.

The McCain rally is on C-span. They were playing it on the radio and it's all over. McCain was hittin Obama hard.

And I did not hear someone say "Kill him." There were a lot of shouts at points. If that was said, to pretend that McCain would condone that is delusion.

Randi Rhodes and others who discussed/acted out assasinating Bush never lost their jobs (pointing their fingers like a gun and pretending to shoot Bush in the head). They weren't strangers in a crowd. Where is the outrage their lefties. Yeah, thought so. You only condemn it when it suits.

That's only because she didn't have a programmed response for that charge.

Althouse, you give Palin way too much credit. How in the world do you know what Palin is thinking? I remember you also saying that she didn't bother to answer Katie Couric when asked about Supreme Court cases because she simply didn't need to.

So, let me get this straight. When Palin doesn't address a question or provide an answer, it's only because the question is beneath her, not because she has no idea how to respond.

(And that AP charge, by the way, wasn't racist, but instead good old fashioned fear mongering. Old McCain is going to have a lot to answer for tomorrow night. Can't wait.)

Judging by the vitriol that passes for thinking in some places, it looks like the leftnutz are out in full force again. What an odd bunch, untainted by reason as they are. Pretty sure a couple of them are on the Obama dole, stirring up shit for the One Great Cause.

I haven't witnessed any conversions here, so I'd bet against the effectiveness of ranting and stupidity from the far left as a persuasive tool.

The term "race baiting" is often a critique of anti-racist actions and communications implying that those who criticize apparent racism are themselves guilty of either a form of racism or of simple manipulation

Nowadays Obama pals around with Warren Buffet and Robert Rubin. He accepts their analysis and advice about the nature of American capitalism and how to fix it. Ayers has never outgrown his youthful radicalism, but Obama has outgrown Ayers....I really want to believe this. I really want to believe that Obama had large areas of himself veiled from the harmful rhetoric of his mentor the Rev. Wright. I really want to believe these things.

How long before a MSM reporter "Hears" a McCain-Palin supporter use the "N word"?

And very convenient that the man only "proposed" killing Obama instead of yelling or screaming it. Less likely to be heard - or not heard - on tape.

BTW, I was at a "Vote For Obama" rally and someone suggested Gang raping Palin. But don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting *all* Obama supporters want to do that. I just want to keep everyone informed.

Nowadays Obama pals around with Warren Buffet and Robert Rubin. He accepts their analysis and advice about the nature of American capitalism and how to fix it.

[...]

I really want to believe that Obama had large areas of himself veiled from the harmful rhetoric of his mentor the Rev. Wright. I really want to believe these things.

Step 1: The Estabishment reeks. It's anti-black, anti-minority, anti-poor. It sends young men to their deaths for wars specifically made for that purpose. It gobbles up young women by allowing them to get pregnant too early and then prevents them from aborting their children.

Call this step, "Enlightenment"

Step 2: Fight the oppressors. Align yourself with people who have been there before you. They will give you the needed connexions. They will support you when things get tough with the government or with haters. Community is everything. Do what you need to do to advance the cause.

Call this step, "By any means necessary".

Step 3: Infiltrate the Establishment. Leave no paper trail of your earlier activities. Deny. Denounce. Counter-attack if caught. Reach your goal by making even those who once supported you, doubt you. Start to slough off the people who got you to where you are.

Call this step, "Almost there".

Step 4: Arrival. You are the part of the Establishment. Do not antagonise anyone by coming on too strong. Reach out your hand in charity to old foes. To those you denounced recently, make a big show publicly of reconciliation. Get rid of your stronger lieutenants. Start to surround yourself with more hardened men and women.

Call this step, "The Noble One".

Step 5: Pounce. Do what you were going to do, what you sacrificed your whole life to do. You have power. Use it. The people will be with you.

Call this step, "Mission Accomplished".

...what? You think Communists at my University didn't try to recruit me?

I don't care who wins this election, but Obama is full of shit claiming he didn't know Ayres was a proud domestic terrorist and that Rev. Wright was a lunatic.

And Obama should bring up the Keating 5 (can anyone name the other 4 without looking them up?) or the Alaska secessionist party or Cindy McCain's drug habit or anything else he wants. Let's roll it all out: Joe Biden's plagiarism and hair plugs his son's lobbying on behalf of banks, Michelle Obama's hatred of America and cushy job at the hospital Barack got some pork barrel money for.

Folks, Obama's from Chicago. He's as dirty as the rest of them, so save your t-shirts, slogans, and bumper stickers because he's as full of shit as they come.

I think that you can tell when someone is parroting DNC talking points when they try to skirt an issue the same way that the Obama campaign is doing. You see that these days with Alan Colmes on Hannity and Colmes, and you see it here with AL.

Stating that Obama was 7 or so when Ayers was seriously involved in bombings, or that they just happened to live in the same neighborhood either ignores the question, or ignores evidence that has become ever more available over the last month or so, in particular, their close working relationship during the time that Obama was involved in the CAC.

At one level it really doesn't matter who Obama was working closely with, and who got his public career going with that CAC gig, since Ayers is unlikely to have any relationship with an Obama administration.

On the other hand, like Wright, Ayers does show the sort of people whom Obama is comfortable with, and who helped his early career.

But as importantly, it puts the Obama campaign, at least a little bit, on the defensive, and that isn't pretty. In response to the Ayers connection, we have seen overt racism, attempts to prevent disclosure of public information, and thuggish attempts to prevent those investigating it to go on the air, all on the part of Obama supporters or his campaign.

Don't mention Robert Rubin to Citicorp stockholders. The bloom is off his rose among those people. That bank bet big on those mortgage backed instruments, and when they went south, Rubin said "don't blame me."

He was also one of the big supporters of repealing Glass-Steagel, now deemed to have been a evil plot masterminded by Phil Gramm. In fact, just days after he got it through Congress, he went to work at Citibank and oversaw its merger with Traveler's Insurance -- which wouldn't have been legal before the repeal.

I realize we live in two parallel universes, one where Rubin gets a pass and is considered a sage, and the other where Gramm is reviled and scourged (along with his brother in all but name, John McCain) for personally destroying the stock market for advocating the same things Rubin did. But it's worth mentioning for the record.

"[Obama] barely knew the guy" --- but Ayers gave him several million dollars to distritubute from the foundation $$ he was controlling.

How come the rest of us don't have people we barely know bestowing such $$ on us?

How did Barack and Ayers sit on the same board and not know each other?

If Barack barely knew Ayers why did Ayers host that political launch at his home?

How come there's a video on Barack and Ayers sharing a stage in 1997?

Only in ChicagoPoliticsLand --- and in the conveniently moral muddle inside Alphaliberal's skull.

As for this de-reg misdirection: Freddie and Fannie are Government Sponsored Enterprises, not private companies. The idea of Republicans wanting to de-regulating government organizations is an oxymoron. Conservatives want to control or limit government, not give it freer rein!!

I also find interesting that it is only from those on the left that you hear that Palin is done, that if she and McCain lose this time, she won't be back in four years.

I would suggest that this is a combination of wishful thinking and deliberate propaganda and misinformation.

I think that there is a large chunk of the conservative base, and I go well beyond the religious part of that here, who are fed up with politicians like John McCain who really don't want to rock the boat and upset their Democratic colleagues and the MSM. And they cheer every time Gov. Palin does something like this.

We just got through a historic bailout caused in great measure by the exact same Democratic politicians who took credit for solving it. The same Sen. Dodd and Rep. Frank who led the bailout were the ones leading the defense against oversight of Fannie and Freddie over the last four or five years, all in the name of providing affordable housing. Dodd was, of course, first in Fannie and Freddie contributions. But who was second? In only three years? Where was the reporting of that? Instead, he got a 5 or so point bump.

So, there is a lot of anger on the right at the Republicans who cannot or will not stand up to the Democrats and the MSM and won't play their game. Gov. Palin is showing that she knows this, and is willing to do something about it. Every time she does something like this, she gets the attention and approval of people like me who are tired of the get along type of Republicanism.

So, no, she isn't going away. If she loses this time, she will be governing almost as far away from Wash. D.C. as she can be, and thus be uncontaminated by Wash. D.C. as usual that will only get worse, much worse, with the Democrats in charge of the two elected branches.

Why is it going to get so much worse? Because Obama's economic and tax policies are sheer idiocy, and he has bought into both big government and corrupt governing. Expect pork barrel and earmark spending to skyrocket as taxes and government spending do likewise. And the economy? In the tank. His policies are close to the worst thing that we could to do bring our economy back.

She's so monumentally stupid and incompetent that her ability to speak TWO SENTENCES coherently is cause for Ann to rush to her keyboard and declare "she handled that well!" and proclaim the dawning of a new era.

what other politician who you've ever seen in your life would need such a response to simply speaking two sentences?

It really blows my mind how desperate you conservatives are to believe in this woman.

And it blows my mind even more than Ann can still be pretending to be neutral while posting this kind of stuff.

I've been on a bunch of these. Everyone I know in business (at higher levels) is on these things.

It's not like you hangout with the board. It's not like you go on or off these things because you like hanging out the other members.

Never in a million years would I connect my service on a board to the history of the other folks on the board.

It just doesn't work like that. Not in any way shape or form. These boards are how white collar folks "give back to the community." You're not there to attack others on the board, you're there to do the work of the board.

If you haven't been on a bunch of these things you probably can't fully understand how they work. (At least, I know that I wouldn't understand the dynamics w/o my own firsthand experience.)

I'm surrounded by folk whom when asked say they won't vote for Obama because he's :

1:black2:Muslim

Obama is gonna get curb-stomped on nov. 4th yet the 86% majority can claim that means we've entered a new era. Never before has a white women been able to gin up fears about a scarry nigger! Truly, a new dawn for America.

Only post-grad ivory tower living in liberal meccas surrounded by educated elites could think that there isn't deep rural white hatred of blacks. The clintons tried to warn the democratic party but no one listened.

Victoria: Did you go to Cambridge with the Apostles? I don't think that Obama is all that diabolic. My big fear is not that his ambitions are sublimated to some hidden agenda but that he has no agenda except the fufillment of his ambition....The criticism of both Bushes was that they were born on third base and thought they hit a triple. My criticism of Obama is that he has hit a home run and thinks he invented the game....Obama has had a run of luck, and it is the easiest thing in the world to mistake luck for Destiny. (All those Lehman bankers thought that a few consecutives passes at the table proved their brilliance.) I don't want a Man of Destiny as President... He assures us that he is modest. That's another thing I really want to believe.

The trouble with trying to tar Obama with his Ayers-Dohrn associations is that as tenured professors they are as respectable and establishment figures as our gracious hostess. Particularly because, like Ann, Ayers is a full Professor at one of the state's two flagship universities. Further, his wife is a professor at one of our country's top ten law schools. And, as I think Paul Fussell once said, in our classless society, academics are our equivalent to the hereditary nobility.

Unconvicted and unrepentant, Ayers has yet been rehabilitated by the State of Illinois, which has granted him tenure, full professorship; named him Distinguished Professor and Senior University Scholar.

How long before a MSM reporter "Hears" a McCain-Palin supporter use the "N word"?

You've heard of Marianna (Fla) Middle School teacher Greg Howard, right? He thought he would explain Obama' message of CHANGE to his seventh graders. So he wrote "C.H.A.N.G.E: Come Help a Nigger Get Elected" on the blackboard.

But Howard didn't get fired. After a ten-day suspension the school district transferred him to their adult ed program.