Mary grew up on the Headfort Estate,
Kells, Co. Meath, where her father (Ned Gurrin) was
groom. She is married to Joe Brady and lives at Climber
Hall. She works with the Simon Community in Dublin.

Interview
with Mary Brady

This
is Danny Cusack here on Thursday 2nd March 2011;
Im here at Climber Hall talking to Mary Brady who grew up
in Headfort estate in Kells .thanks for agreeing to talk to
me Mary perhaps you would start of by saying what your
earliest memories are about your family and growing up on
the Headfort estate.

MB:Well I
suppose my great grandfather would have been the first of my
family who started to work in Headfort estate ..he worked as
a coach man I believe I never had the pleasure of meeting
him ..then it came to his two sons by the way his name
was Michael Logan no Con Logan .and then we came to
his two sons Michael and James, James worked in the farm and
Michael worked as assistant game keeper .both of them died
when I was only a child but have big memories of them.One
of them actually fought in some of the wars out abroad and then
came back to Headfort and worked there.The better history
came from my own immediate family my father was a
groom my uncle Luke was a farmhand my uncle Con was a
gardener...my uncle Michael was assistant game keeper to
retirement and my Aunt was Ladies maid to Lady Rose who was the
famous Rosie Booth, she was a classical singer then it came
down to myself .all the children of the farmhands would get
work in the estate during their summer holidays if they wanted it
so at fourteen I helped out in Headfort House with lord
Headfort .I found it great fun we had a simple life but yet
we lived in a world of our own .we had the woods .we
had the river we had wildlife it was
brilliant we had foxes and rabbits and all sorts of
things we had loads of lofts to climb through and play in
.I suppose we have heard it said my father
often said it to,that the Headforts were great
landlords .they were very kind generous landlords because my
sister was sick when she was young ..she died as a
teenager .. Lord Headfort left a car at our parents disposal
night and day for a month whilst she was in
hospital .very, very kind landlords ..they were
good to their employees .we would get a can of milk every
day and firewood from fallen trees they would plough
up a field to grow our vegetables .it was a great sort of
employment . as I say my father got a medal for long
service from the English Agricultural board ..for long
service he had actually served 45 years with the Headforts.

DC:So
really for generations your family had been part and parcel of
the whole Headfort estate ingrained in the whole life ..

MB:Yes, yes
when you go back to all the different ..my only recollection
would be Lord Terrance and Lord Michael was the last before
that then my Gran-uncleswas working for Lord
Geoffrey who was a great what would you say
botanist ..he collected plants from all over the world and
he is the man who was married to Rosie Booth .Michael was
married to a lady by the name of Elsie Clarke she was ..her
first husband died he was Sir Rupert Clarke they were
Australian

DC:Ah
yes I knew there was some Australian in there somewhere.

MB:They were
Australian, and then Lord Headfort, Lord Michael was married to
Elizabeth Nall-Cain (Brockett) from Carton House .then they
separated and then he married an aunt of Imelda Marcus from the Philippines
Lord Headfort at one stage . Its a funny story
like he decided at one stage that he was going to get rid of
Harold Wilson .he went over there and of course there was a
great ri-raw and they followed them back to Ireland all the
reporters from all over the world and at the same time . the
film The Blue Mouse was being made, part of it was
being made in Headfort we lived at the front lodge where
Sam Holt lives .my father had to stand guard on the gate
with a list of car makes and registrations he was told only to
allow in those people they couldnt let in the
reporters and Lord Headfort was getting out of a bashed up old
mini minor on one of the back roads and was waving at them as he
was going by .that was one of the funny stories.

DC:So
it was a successful decoy.

MB:Ah it was
a great decoy.

DC:Was
Lord Headfort I presume he was in the British house of
Commons, in the House of Lords

MB:He was
entitled to sit in the House of Lords he might have once a
year gone over to keep it going.

DC:It
was purely symbolic; he didnt like Harold Wilson
politically and wanted to get rid of him

MB:He
didnt really like the English monarchy at
all ..because the school that is there is really a prep
school for Oxford and Cambridge and obviously the union
jack went up on holidayswhen you were going on your
holidays or coming back whatever . Lord Headfort went
up and took it down of the flag pole and put up the Tri Colour so
the Union Jack was never flown after that ..he was really an
Irish man at heart.

DC:So
despite his background being Anglo Protestant, he was still an
Irish Nationalist .thats a great story I havent
heard that before.

MB:Some of
the others might have being a bit younger you see my father was
involved in a lot of things because he was on the front gate and
he was a care taker ..we got lots of information

DC:Living
in the front gate lodge must have been a very .lovely place
to live did you feel especially privileged living there
being at the front gate having access to everything

MBWe
didnt really it wasnt until after .it was years
later my friends said do you know we really envied
youI said why did you envy me .they said you
have so much space to play and you were in a special place in
Headfort estate to live there everyone that lived in their sort
of lived in a world of their own because we didnt have to
go out to play with anyone else .there was a group of us who
played together in their ..you could go off and get lost in
the woods and play for hours upon hours and fished ..now
some of them were more adventurous Id say the boys were
more adventurous than me I would have been adventurous
but I wasnt allowed to be cause my mother was always
afraid .there was a quarry between the farmyard and our
place so my mother was afraid to let me go up there in case I
would fall in someplace so I might not have had had as much
fun as the boys.

DC:You
were reined in a wee bit!

MB:I was
reined in a wee bit is right .what else can I tell you
about the history of it all?

DC:Did
you mix .the other families were scattered .some of
them were in the farm yard I know and others were scattered in
cottages and houses around the estate did you mix with
them much those children who were scattered throughout the
estate?

MB:Most of
them were grown up .my sister would have ..lord have
mercy my elder sister would have she talked about all
the different families on the borders of the estate.I
wouldnt have because a lot of them had grown up and
gone I would have been mixing with the people in the
farmyard mainly ..Billy Thompson, Ann Thompson those people
I would have been mixing with .the others were grown up and
gone.They would have been sort of ..my sister
would have been Fred Irelands age group ..cause that age
group .there was lots of them .it was a great place
cause they were at the parties and all that used to go on.We
used to have great Christmas parties in Headfort ..it would
be in Headfort in the ball room at the main house and goodness me
it was a great party ..it would always be the Sunday before
Christmas from 3 O Clock to about seven .Santa would come
and the presents were fabulous ..we got things that nobody
else would get great big dolls or games .that was back
in 1965 ..it was fantastic the things we got.We
didnt have electricity at our lodge it cost too much
for Lord Headfort to get it down there so we had a lamp or a
candle or whatever so .we always had
someone cheiling from somewhere or the story telling or the ghost
stories and all the rest of it ..it was great fun but you
would be spooked out! there would be girls in
and out of Headfort school there were a lot of girls working
there .generally a lot of girls from Cavan that came to work
there .housemaids and whatever .they would be going out
in the evening time or whatever .Billy Thompson and I one
Halloween we got sheets and jumped into the bushes and the poor
girl we nearly frightened the heart out of her .all
for fun.I worked at Headfort house then there
was always great cocktail parties going on there .all the
lords and the ladies ..when you would be serving up the
champagne and all the rest of it ..you would see all these
lords .Lord Longford .yes I have met him Im
just trying to think of some of them Lord
Killallen .Lord Morris the horse trainer his father he
came there

DC:Kilbracken who
died recently?

MB:No Lord
Killallen

DC:Kilbracken
is from Leitrim

MB.Im
just trying to remember you would hear the names you know.

DC:Did
any of them stand out as being particularly eccentric or
characters?

MB:I think
Lord Longford; Id always remember him for that .he was
a bit of an eccentric character I think.

DC:So
really the Headfort estate growing up there was self-sufficient
and self-contained almost

MB:Yeah it
was really .we didnt really have to shop for much
cause we would have hens so we supplied ourselves with
eggs we got meat we had firewood we could fish
down at the river and catch some fish or catch rabbits .then
my mother was a great cook she baked we would go to
Willie Sheridan in the garden .that was another thing the
garden was fabulous .we would get fruit at times that
couldnt be got in Ireland .nectarines and
peaches

DC:So
you were doing well

MB:We got
beautiful tomatoes and nectarines and sure my god we hadnt
heard .and this came from Lord Geoffrey he would have
brought all these things to the walled in garden

DC:They
are very much an Australian fruit  nectarines and some of
the other things you have mentioned.

MB:And
grapes oh that was a very very funny storey .there was
a grape house a vine house I should say of course it was
neglected over the years and falling to pieces but still the old
ones were growing there with a bit of glass around
it Billy Thompson and I decided that we were going to
get some grapes anyway we got green ones .they were
probably green cause they werent ripe anyway .we eat
them the two of us, I dont think Ann did but Billy and I
did ah sure for Heavens sake we had our mothers up all night we
were so sick we nearly died cause they werent ripe.That was another adventure we had.Let me see what other
pieces we can put together ..Lord Headfort himself had a
sister Olivia she is still alive, her aunt and uncle used to come
in, Lord William and Lady Millicent; they were Terrys
brother and sister.(Mary shows Danny a photograph of Lady
Olivias wedding)It was a beautiful wedding .when Lord Headforts first wife Lady Elizabeth Brockett
cameshe was a great lady for the horses. She would go to
the RDS to the horse show and all these things my father
would be with her (Mary refers back to the photographs) Lady
Elsie who was Michaels mother had a son and daughter from
her first marriage to Sir Rupert Clarke.Thats Mr.
Hancock, thats Billy Thompsons grandfather he worked with
my father with the horses in Headfort as well.

DC:What
was your fathers name?

MB:Edward or
he was known as Ned Gurrin.

DC:How
did your mother become to be on the estate or how did they come
to meet?

MB:My mother
was from the far side of Dunshaughlin my father left Lord
Headfort for about ten months they had an argument and he went to
work for Captain Fowler at Dunshauglin thats where
they met.He came back then to Headfort.There was a
very funny storey about my father and one of the men who worked
in Headfort that time when they would be hunting with the
various hunts the ward unions or the Meaths or the
Ballymacad the grooms would ride the horses and bring the
spare horsewith no weights on its back .. there was
no such thing as a horse-box that time .my father and this
other man both of them are dead years now the lord have
mercy on them .they were coming by Fairyhouse racecourse
.it could have been Easter Sunday but it could have been
Easter Saturday it was the evening time .so the temptation
was enormous what would it be like to do the National
Course so the two boys went in and tried the national course
and I dont think it was ever known.

DC:It
didnt get out.

MB:They got
out and everything else, but every trainer in the country was
accused of schooling the horses the night before and it was only
two old hunters that were brought around Fairyhouse
racecourse .they always had the pleasure of saying
that .they did the full course to see what it was
like two old hunters who wouldnt win nothingand every trainer in the place was blamed for schooling their
horsethe night before in Fairyhouse racecourse .but
that is how my parents met as I said my father worked all
them years and then he was sick for seven years before he
died he really was caretaked for those seven years
cause he wasnt able to work ..when he died then my
mother bought this house because it was always customary that you
were asked to leave well somebody else had to come in and
do the work but my mother never went back to the
estate she stayed with my sister .she actually looked at
this house before my father died and I think she wanted him to
live in it and he said no he wanted to stay in
Headfort ..he was only 68 when he died .he said we
could do what we liked after I was only 17 when he died, we
left then after that.

DC:So
the greater part of your life had really been here.

MB:The
greater part was here but the greater love has always been
Headfort as I said all the stories were from there because
all my family worked there...my uncle was the last to leave my
uncle Luke he was the last to leave the farm he worked in it
up to his pension his sister worked as a young girl as a ladies
maid she had great memories cause very famous singers came there
.count John Mc Cormack.

DC:Did
he?

MB:Oh yes he
sang in Headfort with Lady Rose she was known as Lady Rose.

DC:Any
idea of the time I can do a search through the Meath
Chronicle ..but any idea roughly of the year or even the
decade.

MB:Not a
clue ..like my father would be over a hundred now if he was
alive and my aunt would be I suppose would be around ninety if
she was alive ..she would have worked there from somewhere
in her twenties.

DC:I
can work it from there

MB:Probably
about sixty seventy years ago or more .you
know .probably would have been about seventy years ago
.I cant think of a whole lot of things.

DC:Something
has occurred to me ..you lived out there in the Gate lodge
and your life was very self contained .did you interact
much with the town .did you go to school in the town

MB:Oh yes we
went to school in the town

DC:In
Eureka

MB:Yes I went
to the convent first then Eureka ..The nuns would have
permission to walk around Headfort estate every Sunday and of
course I knew if I was naughty during the week they would tell my
mother what I had done so I was in trouble
again!! .several nuns would come and walk around the estate
on Sunday my father and mother lived in different
parts of the estate .my eldest sister was born at the north
lodge .that would have been up that direction .all of
my family was actually born there I was the only one that was
born down at the bridge Lady Elsie who was Michaels
mother was a great one for moving people around at a moments
notice they were in the north lodge that is where the
started off ..my two eldest sisters and my brother were born
there

DC:Was
your father a herd at one time

MB:No,
actually the herd at one stage used to live down in the
middle between the north lodge and the garden it was where
Terrance lived that was the herds house at one
stage .. because he was in the middle of all the fields down
there and when it came to Ned Lynch then he was
put up there .we were moved then to the stable yard because
Lady Elsie decidedshe was going to get hens and she wanted
my mother to look after the hens . and she got a
couple of hundred hens so my mother was in charge of the hens
cause she came from a farming background she was in
charge of the hens .then they decided to move them
into the main house .there were two families I cant
remember who the other family was who lived in the basement of
the main house it was set out into kind of flats.

DC:I
didnt know that.

MB:So then
they were moved again to what was known as the
cottages .that was up on the Headfort road past the lodge
that we lived in .

DC:Is
that the group of six cottages that are now knocked .

MB:Thats
the exact place where Jim Dempsey lived .he would be a man
too who would know the history of it he is a former
guard he lived up there he wouldnt have worked in
it .he could tell you some bits too maybe .and then we
were moved down to the gatelodge .my father used to say the
next move we would get would be out to the road!My sister
used to say they had great fun when they lived in the main house
cause it was so big they could hide .she would have been 12
or 14 years of age and the great fun they had in there ..it
was fantastic in the main house as long as they didnt go up
into the main rooms ..but they had loads of space down in
the basement to play that was great fun ..of course
there was a big dairy farm there .my father didnt have
anything to do with the dairying I think my uncle might
have .my father as I say always looked after the
horses a hugh dairy herd they had I
remember one time there was a terrible thunder storm and a hugh
amount of cows were killed by lighting they went in under the
trees during the storm and they were killed .that would have
probably being in the sixties ..my friends of course used to
love to come out my school friends from Kells .they loved
to come out to get around to play it was a real treat to get in
there to play so it was ..they had great fun again they
didnt go near the main house .you had to stay
away from there but then as I say it was great fun to work in
there cause we got to see all the main rooms ..I remember
one night there was a party in the ball room when I had cleared
up, Mrs Thompson, she was the main lady in the house that
time she had come up to the kitchen .she told me to go
back and switch off all the lights in the ball room .I
switched off all the lights and I must have been missing for an
hour I was in the dark and I couldnt find my way out of
it ..I was wandering around up and down corridors .it
was so big imagine how vast it was I was lost for so
long .I was frightened so I was you heard all these
ghost stories and everything else I was spooked out My
father used to say during the war years .my father often
said that the Headforts hid priests , when the priest hunters
went around that they hid the priests there was a little
what would you say there was a little nook down at one of
the bridges and they hid him there.

DC:This
was probably during the penal times.

MB:Penal
times yes it would go back that far.

DC:You
mentioned living in the basement flat in the big house
.more generally and of course I was told you didnt go
up to Headfort house unless you had a invitation .was their
an enormous cleavage between say you and the Headforts or was
there a certain amount of social interaction or did people keep
their distance and know their place

MB:Oh you did
you always had that respect for them .so you did .I
suppose Lord Michael would have what would have sort of
thawed out a bit because he would stand and speak to
you and whatever else but you still always had a certain amount
of respect for them .the Lord before that now .you
wouldnt go to the front of the house .we always sort
of went around a roundabout way ..like we might have been
going to visit Ned Lynch and his wife or something like that
went up by the back avenue you didnt go
by the front of the house so you didnt ..I
remember my mother telling us the tale .my sister had a
goat she had a pet made out of the goat my mother came from
early mass one Sunday my Parents while the lived in the
stable yard and lived in the basement of the main
house .they did have to come by the front of the
house .there was no other way for them to get in
..there was no other option they went in by the .they
came around by the front and went down by a side path and went
down to the basement from there ..but my mother was coming
from mass one Sunday morning and there was my sisters goat eating
the roses at the front steps and like those roses were treasured
.she had to run for her life and catch the goat it had
broken its tether and had got out .oh my god she
thought they would have been thrown out .at that time
you could be .dismissed over minor things

DC:So
there was that social hierarchy?

MB:There was
that hierarchy to that extent ..like the workers always
said your lordship and your Ladyship and all that .I
couldnt tolerate it, I just could not it stuck in my
throat .to my there was only one Lord and god and that was
it and when I started to work in Headfort house I was just
wondering how I was going to address them and yet respect them
so there was a lady who worked in the kitchen she
cooked she would say Good morning Lord Headfort,
good morning Lady Headfort and that was it for the
day so I thought that was nice and respectful now
..that suits me .so thats what I did .after
three days I was called into the study by Lord Headfort he said
you know you must address me as your Lordship and your Lady as
your Ladyship ..Lord Bective, Lady Olivia and Lady Roseanna
.they were the son and two daughters It is alright for
Miss Sexton to address me as she does because she isnt a
resident on this estate.

DC:That
was certainly putting you in your place

MB:So I
turned around and said I wont call you anything ..so
he stood and looked at me and I looked at him

DC:Youre
very bold

MB:Yeah
Im a rebel

DC:Fair
play to you

MB:So I went
home and my father said Oh my god go back and apologise
your going to get us thrown out on the road and my mother
said No she is right like my mother was a woman
who demanded respect but she never liked this cause my
mother .my father was reared like that but my mother
wasnt ..my mother belonged to a farming family who
owned their own farm and their own house and everything she did
not bow or genuflect to anybody .so she said
no she is right and my father said no no she is
going to get us thrown out she will and I said
I dont care Im not apologising .so
brave old me went back up the next morning to work and I met them
and I just said good morning I never said
Lord muck lord who or anything else and it went on like that and
even after we left the estate Lord Headfort came in here and
asked me to go out and cook dinner.

DC:Did
he

MB:Yeah, I
did a couple of dinner parties and various bits and pieces
.when he was stuck he would call in and asked me would I be
able to do it and I did I was even married and he came
in here one Sunday and he said Im really really stuck and
we havinga dinner party and the person who was supposed to
do it is sick could you take us out of the hobble and I said yeah
I will .I never looked back .I could not do it I
always have respect for people but I couldnt do that
genuflecting.

DC:Fair
play to you .you stood your ground and there was no
backlash or no repercussions.

MB:No.That
particular summer I worked with his first wife she married in
England secondly to a Frank Knight they are auctioneers big
auctioneers in London and she came over to take the old house
Roundstone in Galway, And she came over to take the
children on holidays it was the last summer that I worked
there because I was 17 it was just before my father
died .she asked if she could borrow me for a fortnight and I
felt terrible cause I wanted to go and I did go yet I know my
father was sick he said go on and go and enjoy it
I always remember it she came into the house and
actually sat on his bed and chatted to him .she was
very fond of my father and she knew well she wasnt going to
see him again ..she left the house she couldnt speak
to the rest of us she was in tears .she was a lovely lady
she is still alive I think ..I didnt hear anything
about her dying she was a lovely lovely lady and was very
very kind to my father.I used to entertain the children
quite a bit Olivia, Roseanna and Christopher ..I always
thought it was a great pity that Christopher didnt inherit
the estate because he would go out and work from morning till
night on the farm he loved to work on it I think it
was a great pity that he just wasnt able to inherit it
.all this tax came and all this money that was owed to the
government ..Lord Headfort didnt have an interest in
agriculture.. .I think if Christopher had come a generation
or so earlier it might have been saved because he would have made
a great income from it . Would have made it pay . where
lord Michael had no interest in it all he wanted was his
aeroplane and flew off here and there and everywhere so he
did .he was just wasting money.

DC:Living
the high life ..indulging himself .and then of course
you had the two sales of the estate to Kruger and then the next
sale was subdivided .

MB:It was
subdivided I havent really gone back up to it
much while Thompsons were there I did but when it was
divided I didnt I hadnt gone back because
you dont know whose land you are walking on now.

DC:And
its not the old place that you know so well ..

MB:No
its not the old place even the tree at the front .the
big palm tree is gone that was inside the gate ..I mean my
god in heaven that must have been a 100 feet high, it was before
the big chestnut tree .have you been to the estate.

DC:I
have a couple of times

MB:That
chestnut tree was recorded in some book as been some of the
biggest chestnut tree in the world and there was a palm one there
in front of it .it was so tall it must have been 100 feet
high Billy Thompson and I used to climb that and we would be
fighting about who would get to the top first ..my mothers
heart would be in her mouth in case we would fall out of it and
be killed.Then so many of them are buried on the island.

DC:Yes
thats right Fred Ireland was explaining that.

MB:Yeah
thats the burial ground.

DC:And
then you got the Mausoleum as well.

MB:Michael is
the only one that hasnt come back to be
buried .they reckon that he was cremated and that he
will be brought back there must be something
about that he would stay with her ..Thats
what I gather from

DC:This
is in the Philippines now.

MB:Because I
said it to a certain person its a great pity
that .and this is somebody that would be in the
know a great pity that hes not brought back to the
resting place of the Headforts and he said Well when she
goes it will be different so It would be a
great pity cause he is the only one of them that is missing
they are all buried there.

DC:There
are different families on the estate there would have been
Protestants and Catholics I suppose amongst the families on the
estate ..did everyone mix in well there was no sort of
sectarian undertone ..

MB:No we all
got on very well together ..

DC:That
wasnt an: issue.

MB:No,
religion didnt come into it.

DC:Obviously
the Headforts employed both Protestants and Catholics.

MB:Yes.

DC:It
wasnt an issue for them either in that sense.

MB:You see
the Headforts were always Catholics and married protestants for
whatever reason it was always a mixed marriage until
Michael married the second time his second wife is
catholic they used to have their seat in the church with
cushions.

DC:So I
believe

MB:No all the
families mixed well .all the families on the farm
Hartens were in it .there was Larkins .Tommy
Harten was a gardener with Willie Sheridan .then Thompsons
were in the main house in the corner that was know as the
Stewarts house there were people there by the name of
Larkin .Joe Larkin was the herds man he was from
Kerry none of them around now the majority of that family
went to England .there were Kirwans they lived in
.I dont know the name of that house .I think it
used to be the old herds houseoff out in the
fields they were a long distance away from us .my
sister would have been friendly with some of them, there was none
of them my age .Mr Kirwan worked in the school he
didnt work for Lord Headfort he worked for the school...he
was the caretaker for the school ..Michael Reilly and Joe
Horan they were shared they worked part of the time in the
school .which ever place they were needed by the school or
Lord Headfort .Eddie Hand was the herd ..Ed Lynch was
the herd when I was a child .there is some of them still
around

DC:Mary
Lynch thats married to Tom Moran is a relation of mine so I
hear different stories from Mary she grew up there

MB:Yea she is
older than me.Mary would have fell in between me and my
sisters ..yeah they lived in that lodge and then Billy Hand
came along to live in it then .his wife is still up there

DC:So I
believe

MBRosie

DC:Billy
Thompson mentioned that

MB:Ah he was
a fantastic herd man ..my god you would look at him with his
two collies rounding up the sheep .one would hold the sheep
and then he would tell the other one to gather up the next lot
.and he would count the sheep and check them out
by the time you would get into the next paddock
..the other one would have them they were
fantastic dogs ..fantastic dogs ..there was one time
they had poultry and pigs as well ..where the front
apartments are now at the farm yard .that was known as the
poultry yard .the poultry and pig yard .it was a very
self-sufficient estate cause my mother could go back to a time I
never saw it but my sister did when they made the
butter and all .you could have butter and you could have
eggs so it was very self-sufficient ..you couldnt
pull flowers you werent meant to take any flowersor
touch the rhododendrons orget a Christmas tree we were
always dying to get a tree ..a little Christmas
tree ..we werent supposed to cut any of these things
down we werent meant to take any of the rhododendrons and
there were very rare daffodils, snowdrops, beautiful things
.I actually ..my mother brought some of the snow drops
because we had them growing at our house and I never never saw
ones like it before or since .they were like an umbrella I
have them in my garden still .the daffodils died out over
the years .again their were some daffodils there and
narcissi that I never saw before or since very rare
flowers and its a great pity because Lord Michael cleared
some of the land just got a bulldozer and bulldozed them
into the ditches .beautiful flowers and everything.

DC:No
appreciation

MB:No he
didnt care .he was an awful man he didnt
care he was nice he was a nice man .he was
a very nice man .he just didnt have a clue
.he got rid of beautiful trees and beautiful flowers for to
make more agricultural land and then he wasnt really
interested in agriculture either that was a fad as
well .that was thrown there as well ...you
know he has no interest whatsoever in
horses ..none it was his first wife who had the
interest in horses.

I
cant think of anything more really.

DC:You
have done well really .you have given me a good sense of
what it was like to grow up there cause it is all a
by-gone era now .its all finished

MB:Its
sad really .its sad .its good in one sense because we
all have progressed onto the one level really...

DC:Of course its all egalitarian and democratic and all the
rest of it

MB:Yes we all
have progressed onto the one level and then it was a simpler life
so it was .we all had great fun together .if there
was a wedding or parties or birthdays you know a big
birthday a 21st or something like that .you
would have great crack with all the people on the estate .a
simple life a simple life .but we didnt need to
go outside the estate for entertainment there was so much to do
.there was always pet lambs on the go that was another
one ..we would have our dogs although we werent meant
to dogs either .therewere pheasants that werereared
there so we would be in trouble if our dogs wandered
off or got into trouble ..they reared a

huge
lot of pheasants and Joe Reilly he would be going around and
Bill Ireland and the two of them would be going around for weeks
before hand to incubate the eggs that time they would
be going around to all the farmers or whatever to get hens that
werent hatching and they had little wooden coops and they
put the eggs in under the hens that hatch out the pheasants
.there was no such thing as an incubator that time of
course then they would be staying up at night the biggest threat
that time wasnt the fox it was the badger .because of
course the hen and the chicks were in the coops their
could have been 50 wooden coops and the hens would be in there
with the

chicks
and be closed in at night but they werent a
solid floor, they were sitting on the grass .but the badger
would come along and push with his head .he would be like
the pig ..he would be routing and he would push it over and
of course he would kill the hen and chicks .so somebody
would be stayingup for weeks they would take turns so some
of the gamekeepers would stay up at night to make sure that the
chicks survived so then you had the shoots all over the
estate that was one thing now that I was terrified of .and
to this day Im terrified of guns .I never liked
it, my mother would have to make sure to have all the fire was in
.sticks and water, turf whatever briquettes .while the
shooting was going on at the house .I would lose my life if
she went outside the door ..I was terrified of the guns so I
was absolutely terrified .It was a good life .a good
life.All around Kells .there was a huge amount of
Landlords all around Kells.

DC:There was Nicholsons, Rothwells .and they go back
centuries too

MB:And then
you had Miss Mc Cormack at Williamstown my uncle lived there
she was of the Ted Cassell- McCormacks she was
in a beautiful big house and to see it falling down is very sad
.my sisters were with Bradys of Blackwater .but
the Nicholsons and the Rothwells were very hard to work for
.

DC:Yes they didnt have the best reputation in the world

MB:No they
were very hard, anyone that could help it wouldnt go
there .if they were there they only waiting the chance to
get in to the likes of Headfort everyone was always
waiting and if they got into Headfort they didnt
leave like as I say they stayed on for generations
.Mrs Thompson remembered been in Nicholsons when she
was young .I think they came there cause her father is
English and I remember an old lady here in the town telling me
her parents worked for the Rothwells the same lady died
when she was she must have been nearly ninety .she had
beautiful hair .beautifully curly hair .and she said
she will always remember as a child on a Saturday night her
mother wouldrag her hair to have the ringlets for Sunday
morning .the Rothwells were very Protestant .this lady
was protestant too ..Lady Rothwell came down to her mother
and asked her to cut her hair ..not asked her ..told
her to cut her daughters hair because she was prettier than her
daughter and she had to do it now isnt
that something and then you see one of the Rothwells married a
Nicholson no they werent nice to work for .I
worked one summer holidays for the Nicholsons
and

DC:Different
kettle of fish altogether.

MB:They
werent a bit nice they werent a bit nice now
.we were living her and I was just looking for a summer
holidays job from school and I got a job in Nicholsons but
ah no .they werent nice at all so they
werent .that was a huge house .a lot of that was
knocked during the war but the basement is still in
it

DCIs it?

MB:Because
the immediate part that is under the house has electricity but if
you wander away from that you could get lost because I have
to go down into it to get old silver trays and I actually
wandered off the beaten track and I was down there for a while
somebody had to come get me I forget what happened to
me it was a spooky house it was a horrible place I
didnt like it at all I only worked for the summer holidays
and that was it .Id never go back near it, it was spooky it
was a horrible place didnt like it at all There was great
wealth in Meath, good land that is probably why Landlords came to
Meath .they used to gave great lots of silver and brass and
you would be cleaning .that was one of my jobs in Headfort
house was to do the brass ..and the main stairs had brass
rods that was one of the things I was very sad about when I went
back to see it .it was an open day or something and my self
and my sister went back .it nearly made us cry we sat
down and felt a lump in our throat because she worked in it as
well as my self as I said the employees families got jobs for the
summer ..big velvet drapes and everything were covered in dust
they were in bits they werent looked after the
stairs I remember cleaning the brass rods and I cant even
remember how many brass rods but it was for three stories
that huge mahogany stairs going from the ground floor to the
top ..we brassod all those rods .the carpet was nearly
worn away ,.,it was terrible sad and the brass rods you
couldnt even see the brass .you see nobody would do
that these days ..I like to see things like that the
furniture there was no such think as a spray polish you used
beeswax .the funny thing was I was at a auction in Oliver
Ushers I was having a look at furniture in there .I was
looking at a particular item .I brought the ? over to
see a chest of drawers .there was a beautiful chest of
drawers I could actually smell the beeswax from the wood and
there wasnt a scratch from it ..that was furniture
that was well made ..well made then at night we
used to have to go around and turn down their beds that was the
job before we went to bed to make sure their beds were warm and
turned down a certain way .then I got moved on to ironing
.I had to iron the table cloths and the napkins and
everything they would be perfect and the same with the shirtswe would have to do them like they came out of a shop and hang
them on a hanger like the came out of a shop .then all
the different wine glasses and lots of cutlery .talking
about silver service and everything today I learned every bit of
it and every bit of cutlery and all the different wine glasses
and everything else you could be there until 11 o
clock or 12 O clock ..thats one thing if they were
entertaining they never thought about the staff you were on
call and you stayed there so you did till whatever time it was
that they finished and then you had to wash up and
there was no dishwasher that time .wash up and go home
then .

DC:No
industrial regulations...so no overtime or triple-time and no
trade union either

MB:No I
remember my father worked a six day week you were always off
on a Sunday .a Sunday was a day of rest and then I remember
he got a half day on a Saturday ..he used to think he was
great being finished at one o clock .he never actually
got to the five day week .at time you didnt go off to
your pension till you were seventy ..so he actually never
got a chance to get to his pension either

DC:So
it really was your life .a day and a half off a
week you really didnt have much time to go anywhere
else.

MB:No well my
father was the only one of his family who lived on the estate and
I dont know I d say his grandfather probably did live on
the estate but my gran uncles didnt and they left it to go
.they were in the British foreign legionsor
something like that ..they went away my two gran uncles
and then my uncle and aunt they were the youngest and
the second youngest of the family .they lived in
Carlanstown .they have their own house over at
Carlanstown Dads eldest brother would have
been he was actually one of the first police men in Ireland
the Freestate .they actually carried a gun that
time and he left that and he worked in the Botanical
gardens for a short while and then he came back to Headfort to
work with Bill Ireland as assistant gamekeeper .but he
didnt live in the estate either .he lived out in Miss
Mc Cormacks thats how I know so much about Miss
Mc Cormacks .so that was my uncle Connie I didnt know
he died when I was about two, again he lived with the other
brother and sister .yeah he lived with them and he died I
think I was only about two .he worked in the garden.My
father was the only one to live on the estate .so he was my
grandfather on my fathers side didnt ..the funny
thing was my grandparents didnt work on the
estate .thats a history Im going to have to dig
up I have to go to that history someplace cause I
dont know where my Grandfather came from with that name
they say its either French or German name
Gurrin ..I must go and dig up the history of it
sometime ..he didnt work on the estate he died when my
father was young.They had their own house out at
Normanstown and then my fathers two youngest brother and sister
inherited that house cause my grandfather died when my father was
only thirteen .my sister remembers seeing our
grandmother alright .I didnt see her
..there was a great age gap between my eldest sister and my
second eldest .there would have been about ten years
between my brother and my self so they were a
different era

DCA different era ..ten years makes a hell of a difference
.but even when youre young