knowmad wrote:Please don't be morbid jerks.If you don't understand the afterburn report, or media disclosure proceses, or statistics; then, you are speculating.Respect life, even in death.

Real burners will let this thread die (sink).

"real burners"? Really? Barbie Death Camp?! *rolling eyes*

What the hell is that even suposed to mean?Just because I camped with BDV?wtf?

It never dawned on me that you camped with BDC/V but it makes my analogy even better. Where else, but at BM would anyone be able to joke about the Holocaust like BDC does? It is probably the most politically incorrect thing that one could ever poke fun at.

So, what seemed to go over your head was that if we can poke fun and make light of that, it is not very much different than poking fun at death at burning man. Hell, millions of Jews were killed in the 'ovens' that BCD has barbies marching into on the playa. I'm only making fun of a death or two. Small potatoes to elicit a response to the effect of "Real Burners" would let this thread die. Pun intended. And WTF is a real burner anyway???????

If you don't get it now, you never will.

And just to reiterate, I do not have any problem with BDC, it's one of my favorite camps just because of how edgy and irreverent (I think) the whole concept is.

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

We had a 5 hour exit after the temple burn. At 3.30 am getting onto the road, I drove behind (another) foreigner who started driving on the left hand side of the road. I spent quite a bit of time flicking my high beam at him/her to alert them and then dropped right back as I saw a car approaching from the opposite direction. Luckily the other car (which turned out to be an ambulance) swerved off the road and avoided a collision. The car in front of me DIDN'T take the hint and kept on driving on the left hand side of the road. It was only after a second car came towards them on that they finally cottoned on to the fact that they were driving in North America and had to be on the right-hand side of the road.

This was by far and away the scariest (the only scary) thing I saw all week. So pleased they woke up and no one got injured.

I left 45-minutes before sunrise, Wednesday, about 25-miles after hitting the pavement, there was a long line of stopped vehicles, I saw flashing police-lights. When the police let us pass, there was camping debris all over the road, the top (cab) of the pickup truck was gone, truck was on it's side, an ambulance was there. A few miles later, a helicopter flew overhead, to take the passengers? & driver to the hospital . . . hope they're not dead.

I left 45-minutes before sunrise, Wednesday, about 25-miles after hitting the pavement, there was a long line of stopped vehicles, I saw flashing police-lights. When the police let us pass, there was camping debris all over the road, the top (cab) of the pickup truck was gone, truck was on it's side, an ambulance was there. A few miles later, a helicopter flew overhead, to take the passengers? & driver to the hospital . . . hope they're not dead.

Personally, I'm willing to take deaths on 447 during those crucial days as part of the death toll of the event. I guess I can see why the llc doesn't, but I always thought that was spin.~shrug~

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

jkisha wrote:Ya, they thought it was performance art, so he just hung there for awhile until someone realized he was dead. Probably would have realized it sooner, but there are no flies on the playa.

theCryptofishist wrote:No they didn't! Don't take stupid media reports as fact, especially when it comes to the burn. That ugly little inaccuracy is going to follow us around forever. Don't pull it along.

jkisha wrote:I didnt hear that story from the media. It was camp news shortly after it happened. The way the story was told to me, it was totally believable. Though as it wasn't eye-witness knowledge, I couldn't swear to it in court.

It was so long ago, I don't know where I heard it, the media was happy to pass it on. I was disgusted when it turned out not to be true, and 1derful and other Comfort and Joy campers were very insulted. It's basically an ugly accusation, and I'd like it to go away. Sorry for jumping so hard.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I always liked the " Claw Hammer Guy" story He died from a claw hammer blow to his forhead-accidental- self inflicted- while on a three day tear to finish his project- little sleep- lots of pressure- all white knuckles- and while flippin a rant off to his support team -he was trying very hard to NOT FAIL- and as a result- Failed- droping to his death from a height before he hit the ground he was dead. hammered the claw into his noggin bucket dead center on the back swing of his hammer.. The value of the Moral was criticalSLOW DOWN_ REST DRINK WATER- be nice..dont be soooo serious...better yet DONT BE AN ASSHOLE!Thank you Claw hammer Guy- you may have saved my life several times in your memory.And I will never ever use a Hammer at Burningman again..so many other dangerous toolz to fuck up with anyway now that Hammers been done..

jkisha wrote:Ya, they thought it was performance art, so he just hung there for awhile until someone realized he was dead. Probably would have realized it sooner, but there are no flies on the playa.

theCryptofishist wrote:No they didn't! Don't take stupid media reports as fact, especially when it comes to the burn. That ugly little inaccuracy is going to follow us around forever. Don't pull it along.

jkisha wrote:I didnt hear that story from the media. It was camp news shortly after it happened. The way the story was told to me, it was totally believable. Though as it wasn't eye-witness knowledge, I couldn't swear to it in court.

It was so long ago, I don't know where I heard it, the media was happy to pass it on. I was disgusted when it turned out not to be true, and 1derful and other Comfort and Joy campers were very insulted. It's basically an ugly accusation, and I'd like it to go away. Sorry for jumping so hard.

No apology necessary. If it's not true, I don't want to be disseminating false information.

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

AntiM wrote:The Comfort and Joy suicide, and Kathy Lampman falling under the art car trailer, those two for sure. Wasn't there a plane crash one year which killed three or four people? And a guy who ran into the Man's flames but died in Reno? An unconfirmed death in a tent, overdose or heart attack, which didn't make the gossip scene? Deaths in Reno hospitals from incidents on the playa and on the road aren't in the official tally.

More on the way out, but only one I've been told of fisthand. The teller of the tale came on the wreck eastbound I-80 and ran over to help, found the woman's arm first. That stuck with me.

The plane crash was the same year as Kathy Lampman (2003), but I think all those were in the hospital.

The pilot of the plane crash did in fact die, but the passengers survived. He was a friend of a friend who I did meet on one occasion and was a great person. My friends also were eyewitnesses to the Lampman accident as well. Both sad events....

"All the worlds indeed a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers. Each another's audience inside the gilded cage." - N. Peart"SAFETY THIRD" - Some idiot

As far as I'm aware, there were no deaths at this year's event. The Wednesday (post-event) accident on the 447 was serious (victims had head trauma and were life-flighted out), but those involved are alive and in hospital. Next time I'm at HQ I'll check on the statistics.

Savannah wrote:Your short search for information does not equal a cover up.

You want what is known as the AfterBurn Report, Emergency Services Department section. Deaths on playa are recorded. Fatal injuries resulting ultimately in death are also recorded, as are all other ordinary treatments and transports at ESD Stations 3, 9 and Center Camp.

Search "AfterBurn" from the main Burning Man website and choose any year dating back to 2001. There will be a 2012 AfterBurn Report in a few months. If you want the heads-up when it's posted, join the Jack Rabbit Speaks email newsletter. (Search it on the site!) If you feel like your life is lacking sufficient Burn information, and it appears that you do, I promise you that you won't regret it.

Thanks Savannah! This is very helpful. I am on the Jack Rabbit Speaks Newsletter (that is the only way I could keep track of ticket sales this year to make sure I got one!) I'll keep my eyes peeled for the 2012 report.

First on-playa death was in 1996, guy was riding a motorcycle along with a van and ran into it. The rider was drunk. It was one of the events that shook up the original group of founders, mostly in the differing manners of dealing with it. Larry wanted to distance the event from it as soon as possible, some of the others (John Law, etc) saw it as a reason to end the event as it stood. That same year, 3 people in a tent were run over by a car (not an art car, this was before regular vehicles were banned from driving on the playa). One of them was crippled, not sure if he still attends.

The 2007 suicide and the cardiac arrest victim are the only other on-playa deaths I'm aware of. The guy who jumped into the fire died in Reno, but yeah, his injuries happened on-playa. Not a bad record after 26 years, tens of thousands of people in a hostile environment engaging in potentially dangerous activities.

I would guess based on our own experiences (driving after Exodus when we're way, way too exhausted to be driving) that the drive from Burning Man has resulted in more bad accidents and fatalities than all of the fatalities at Black Rock City itself.

Fatigue kills on the highway as fast as alcohol.

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

trilobyte wrote:As far as I'm aware, there were no deaths at this year's event. The Wednesday (post-event) accident on the 447 was serious (victims had head trauma and were life-flighted out), but those involved are alive and in hospital. Next time I'm at HQ I'll check on the statistics.

I am told by a reliable source that there were no deaths this year. Let's try to do that every year if we can.

Sure, Burning Man is the reason you're driving on narrow and dark roads while horribly exhausted. But the responsibility is still yours...drive defensively, don't drive when you're too tired to function, and so on. Get a hotel instead of weaving all over the highway. BMORG can't be held responsible for people making bad decisions off-playa.

Edit: they can't really be held responsible for bad decisions on-playa either....

maladroit wrote:Sure, Burning Man is the reason you're driving on narrow and dark roads while horribly exhausted. But the responsibility is still yours...drive defensively, don't drive when you're too tired to function, and so on. Get a hotel instead of weaving all over the highway. BMORG can't be held responsible for people making bad decisions off-playa.

Edit: they can't really be held responsible for bad decisions on-playa either....

We stayed at the Sands, post burn. It was nice to see burners making bad decisions in the hotel, rather than on the freeway.

After the man burned, I passed through Center Camp before heading to the Jazz Cafe. A bunch of rangers and (I think) firefighters were in there talking about the burn, how it had gone quickly and smoothly and such. A firefighter said that a guy and his girlfriend had attempted to run through the fire some time soon after it had fallen, and had tripped and fell. He said the woman's legs were badly burned... specifically he said that her skin had melted somewhat. I didn't butt into the conversation to ask for details as he seemed to be processing a bit with his colleagues. Didn't sound like it was going to lead to a fatality or anything, just a horrible injury. I didn't see any of it firsthand as I was quite a ways away for this year's man burn.

After the Temple burned, I was worried about someone falling in the perimeter fence to the temple, I even saw some ppl jumping on the coals to get over . . . if they would-have jumped wrong & twisted their foot/ankle . . .

We made an unplanned stop in Reno for a hotel on the way home. Way too freaking tired. On the way up we slept in a parking lot for an hour. Never going to plan to drive through the night again. That blew. But we lived!

"just two indecisive cowboys, trying to play a word game." - piehole"Just apply intelligence and discretion and you should be able to get away with just about anything." - Ugly Dougly

Timezone LaFontaine wrote:After the man burned, I passed through Center Camp before heading to the Jazz Cafe. A bunch of rangers and (I think) firefighters were in there talking about the burn, how it had gone quickly and smoothly and such. A firefighter said that a guy and his girlfriend had attempted to run through the fire some time soon after it had fallen, and had tripped and fell. He said the woman's legs were badly burned... specifically he said that her skin had melted somewhat. I didn't butt into the conversation to ask for details as he seemed to be processing a bit with his colleagues. Didn't sound like it was going to lead to a fatality or anything, just a horrible injury. I didn't see any of it firsthand as I was quite a ways away for this year's man burn.

I believe we saw these two receiving medical attention on the 12oclock side where the burn perimeter had stood. Never good to see people on the gurney, kind of a buzz kill. But at least this way I know it was due to their own knuckle-headedness that they ended up this way.

I'm sure for US drivers, overnighting at Reno is 'sleeping locally', but for the rest of us a 2-3 hour drive (after a 'quick' 2 hours playa exit) in the dark, when tired is a long haul. If we'd had an RV I think we'd have pulled over and slept. There's absolutely no way I'd go any further than Reno on the way out.

My spirits lifted seeing the hotel minorly playafied in all sorts of random places. And seeing other burners doing burner 'random sleeping' in the lobby made me laugh too.

paulo999 wrote:My spirits lifted seeing the hotel minorly playafied in all sorts of random places. And seeing other burners doing burner 'random sleeping' in the lobby made me laugh too.

We got into Reno@ 6am Monday morning and had reservations, when we got there they told us our room wasn't ready and to check back around 11am. We went and grabbed some food and came back to the hotel and fell asleep in the lobby on a couch right by the desk, about an hour later security woke us up and said we had to move, that we couldn't sleep there. My GF got up and went to the desk and magically came back with a room key. Seems once people started to wake up and come down stairs the management didn't want the rib people to see dirty burners passed out everywhere. In the room by 7am, and they had told us housekeeping wouldn't have a room ready for us til 10 or 11, shows how much they know.