wow rly? how could it RUIN it? i mean,you cant do all that much without, you can make comics and weld stuff together to make a (probably unrealistic) barely working contraption (that really depends on WHAT it is), and most of it really isn hard. wire a thruster to an adv. pod and you can actually CONTROL it, instead of using the numpad. wiremod made gmod better, it didn't ruin it at all. it CAN be kind of complicated, but take 5 seconds to learn it and it makes things WWAAYY better.

I like wiremod, but I don't use E2 for everything which is the problem for most people, I'll rather join a game of multiplayer to make something and see people doing stuff rather then looking at an expression blurting random lines of code at each other.

If I join a server where everyone calls me a noob because I build something not using E2, I piss them off by not using wire at all!

Whosdr: Doing projects with gates isn't much different than using expression2 or expression1. As long as you have the framework down, it's fairly simple to set up. One requires wasting far more time wiring, if that floats your boat.

The important distinction between e1/e2 and regular gates is the number of entities you conserve by condensing everything into a single expression.

What I'm saying is that your respect is not well placed - you are championing inefficiency and waste.

Wiremod greatly improved GMOD, just some people either don't know how to use it, or use it the wrong way and crash the server; occasionally. I honestly, don't see how anyone could think Wiremod made it worse.

WireMod may be a bit confusing at first, but it mad GMOD have a wider choice of creativity.

Whosdr: Doing projects with gates isn't much different than using expression2 or expression1. As long as you have the framework down, it's fairly simple to set up. One requires wasting far more time wiring, if that floats your boat.

The important distinction between e1/e2 and regular gates is the number of entities you conserve by condensing everything into a single expression.

What I'm saying is that your respect is not well placed - you are championing inefficiency and waste.

The only issue with wiremod, and especially with Expression2, is that it makes stuff that would previously take ingenuity and a bunch of trusters only a myamazingentity:movehereanddothatcoolthing(); away. After the challenge is gone people get bored.

The only issue with wiremod, and especially with Expression2, is that it makes stuff that would previously take ingenuity and a bunch of trusters only a myamazingentity:movehereanddothatcoolthing(); away. After the challenge is gone people get bored.

On the other hand, without wiremod Garrysmod starts to become stale. Things devolve to where there's only a precious few ways to do things, or you script the contraption in Hammer.

I'll take apathy induced by infinite freedom over apathy induced by restriction any day.

People need to use a good mix of wire construction and physical construction. I don't want to see a plate with a bunch of chips on it which tells the time, nor do I want to see a fridge with wheels and a thruster on it.

I personally think that wire-mod has ruined Gmod. Before it used to be about the building. Now, 3/4 of the contraptions forum is boring wire-mod shit that half of us don't understand and even if you did, is boring as hell.
Don't get me wrong, I think the people that use wire-mod are smart to understand it, and it is useful for gcombat and the like. I just think people have taken it too far, "Wow, another engine, never seen that before!" I just wish we could go back to the old days where building skill still counted.

On the other hand, without wiremod Garrysmod starts to become stale. Things devolve to where there's only a precious few ways to do things, or you script the contraption in Hammer.

I'll take apathy induced by infinite freedom over apathy induced by restriction any day.

I agree that Wiremod significantly expands GMOD's limits, but I think Garrysmod is pretty stale as of today. Sure there was a contraption boom caused by Wiremod and many smaller ones later on, but these "GMOD golden ages" are short-lived and usually churn out pure step-by-step followers.

Yes there is an abundance of good builders, but there's only a few creative ones that come, go, and come back again.

I'd rather see something innovative that's made with Wire or not over the "this is my fin plane, it's based off of [name]'s design".

Wiremod ... its nice . Nice for people that actually KNOW how to use it . It ruined gmod ! No one uses ''Good old Tool Gun'' ! It's so annoyng when someone joins a perfectly fine server and starts to flame because server has no wire mod ? They are like LOLZ, LOLZ NO WIR3H FUXX and spams server with bunch of Explosive barrels or cargo ship containers !

Wiremod ... its nice . Nice for people that actually KNOW how to use it . It ruined gmod ! No one uses ''Good old Tool Gun'' ! It's so annoyng when someone joins a perfectly fine server and starts to flame because server has no wire mod ? They are like LOLZ, LOLZ NO WIR3H FUXX and spams server with bunch of Explosive barrels or cargo ship containers !

I don't suppose you noticed that Wiremod is used via a collection of "good old toolgun"s?

Imo Wiremod ruined Gmod. Sure it extends its capatability but really wiremod makes stuff seem way too easy. Peeps just copy stuff off youtube most of time. And when they're done. They mostlikely say "DUD LOOK AT WHAT I DID :D :D :D :D" I hate when players always make a same single thing and everytime they show it off to same players. If players used creativity or the buildings people make werent always 85% wire i woulda accepted it. But with the way people use wiremod now, I hate it. I saw people use wire in quite creative ways making huge houses with automated doors and similar. Which made me interested in it. However after i saw that majority just copied stuff from youtube. I lost my interest because they showed it off like it was they'r property instead of something they just copied. Im tired of people complaining when i dont see they'r stuff. Heck in some admin mod with voteban i got votebanned because of reason "nub , jealuz of me skillz" (Serious rephrasing of how the message was)

Imo Wiremod ruined Gmod. Sure it extends its capatability but really wiremod makes stuff seem way too easy. Peeps just copy stuff off youtube most of time. And when they're done. They mostlikely say "DUD LOOK AT WHAT I DID :D :D :D :D" I hate when players always make a same single thing and everytime they show it off to same players. If players used creativity or the buildings people make werent always 85% wire i woulda accepted it. But with the way people use wiremod now, I hate it. I saw people use wire in quite creative ways making huge houses with automated doors and similar. Which made me interested in it. However after i saw that majority just copied stuff from youtube. I lost my interest because they showed it off like it was they'r property instead of something they just copied. Im tired of people complaining when i dont see they'r stuff. Heck in some admin mod with voteban i got votebanned because of reason "nub , jealuz of me skillz" (Serious rephrasing of how the message was)

Hows that any different from downloading a dupe file from garrysmod.org?

(Also, My E2 folder is filled with about 400 expressions I made myself, no tuts, little help.)

Imo Wiremod ruined Gmod. Sure it extends its capatability but really wiremod makes stuff seem way too easy. Peeps just copy stuff off youtube most of time. And when they're done. They mostlikely say "DUD LOOK AT WHAT I DID :D :D :D :D" I hate when players always make a same single thing and everytime they show it off to same players. If players used creativity or the buildings people make werent always 85% wire i woulda accepted it. But with the way people use wiremod now, I hate it. I saw people use wire in quite creative ways making huge houses with automated doors and similar. Which made me interested in it. However after i saw that majority just copied stuff from youtube. I lost my interest because they showed it off like it was they'r property instead of something they just copied. Im tired of people complaining when i dont see they'r stuff. Heck in some admin mod with voteban i got votebanned because of reason "nub , jealuz of me skillz" (Serious rephrasing of how the message was)

This is why noone takes this point of view seriously.

I'm going to crosspost this from another thread to give you an insight as to how I make my expressions, and what most of the more talented wirers tend to do.

Sestze posted:

It depends upon the model that you use.

The initial thought behind any system is to look at it critically and understand what it is trying to do. You look for patterns, look at the "big picture". You construct a bare-bones mathematical model that fits with what you want your contraption to do using the principle of Occam's Razor. You test the model, and then decide whether or not to shave things off or add more complexity.

It's a fine tool, and a difficult one to master. If you pare things down too far, the model loses meaning or doesn't fit with the data. Too complex, and it becomes too much of a burden or loses flexibility.

An example: A recent expression I made was based around constructing a helicopter system that would allow a chassis a friend made to get airborne. By simplifying the model used down to "drag forces from the fin on the local up/down movement, spinning thing's speed determines lift, control established by movement of mouse", I was able to get a crude representation of what a helicopter would work like.

Instead of going through the motions simulating fins on the blades, rotational inertia, gyroscopic forces, and the like, I pared it down to the simple concept of "spinny thing makes helicopter go flying".

Another example was the "Newton's Retarded Cousin" expression that I made that apparently works like a Gyropod. Simple concept, just wanted a stable platform for a zero-gravity flight system. I later incorporated it with fin to allow for flight. From this system I realized what the fins were doing and set about adding things onto the chip (and even rewriting it) to where I could simulate lift and drag forces.

The initial systems are simple, but if I feel something is lacking that should have been there, I make it more complex until I have a decent approximation of what a physical system would have, without a few of the niggling issues that come with source, with the Fin tool, or with any number of other things.

An example of something I've built that benefitted from the use of simulated things was the expression I made that simulates elastics used in suspension. It went from being a very crude approximation to a more realistic model in a rewrite. The benefits I got from this are many - the system can handle absurdly heavy weights, it's flexible, and uses less constraints.

I don't know how to say this, if these things were so simple, if everything was so easy to put together in E2, wouldn't everyone under the sun have done it already? I wouldn't have been the first, I wouldn't be the only one with a walking expression released. I wouldn't be the only one with a simulated elastic suspension. There would be others who could piece this together and construct their own systems.

Indeed I am not the only one, but there's not many who do, I can count them on one hand.

All of this doesn't answer my question, however. Why do you care how I build or what I use to put things together? You're not aware of the complexity (or noncomplexity) of the system I use, you make assumptions. How I build is my own unique style, and the end products are undeniable. If you had legitimate complaints about how the system works and suggestions for improvement, I'd listen.

However, so far I've recieved nothing but complaints about how it's not "right" or not "in the spirit of GMOD". You're talking about a sandbox game, where you can do pretty much anything you like. I'm not competing with you, and there's no endgame, so drop the "GMOD Purity" argument.

The concept of contraption "purity" is a sad excuse to make others fit into your mould.

I'm fine with wire itself. Its the community of it that think of it like some god and that they are pro's which killed wiremod (And took gmod together) to me. Im okay if you are building a thing you want to. But for fuck's sake - Dont force players to see it. If they want to see it, they'll come. Im okay if you guys are good at wire but really, It's tiring when you want everyone to see your thing. Mainly if its just 2-3 props welded together doing something nice via expression 2.

Basicly, What i mean is. Wiremod is okay with me, But like 90% of the users always try to make others see what are they building. And if they disagree they start killing prop pushing , if you try to build something they start shoving props into the building until you decide to watch the fucking thing.

so on any given server people who use wire will force you to watch what they're building on pain of death, prop pushing, or, uh...

yeah I'm not even going to persue this further. You had a run in with one guy and are blowing it way out of proportion. Dicks exist in every facet of the universe - it takes a bit of intelligence to realize a trend versus a single occurrance.

basically, what I mean is, that happened once, and you were so traumatized by the incident that you lost the ability to type.

Wiremod is a must-have for me. Now, I don't just build boring wire shit. I treat wiremod much the same was as I do the Weld tool. It's just another way to make my vehicles do what they do. The most complex wire thing I do is making a piston engine, and typically those are just for show. They're too weak to do anything useful. Hell I don't even use pod controllers on my cars most of the time. I'm fine with numpad controlling them. I have no E2's at all. I have three E1's, and those remain pretty much untouched. One for hydraulic steeing, one selfaware for tachometers and one for engine timing. That's about it. Everything else I do with gates and numpad inputs.

Wire will only ruin Gmod if the player allows it to. Kind of like alcohol and real life.

Not really, the basic components are simple mathematics, and the more advanced ones are borderline programming, if you wanted to make anything with it, you can pretty much rely on the gates and simple maths, you aren't being forced to use things like E2.