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i keep reading about Bones length being the reason for his great success - but not one person has brought up Gooses size. The only thing ive read was that they were similar in size/reach so it negated his (jones) advantage. My question is simply this, if Bones size and length is that big of an advantage why isnt Goose who is virtually equal in size minus a small reach being subject to the same sort of criticism?

Would Goose be fighting for a title if he wasnt 6'5 with a 79 inch reach? Your guess is as good as mine, but if its subject to criticism in Jones case how can it not be the same for Goose (the only guy to put up a fight against Jones so far)

Edit:

Originally Posted by KevoOnTheRadio

Well....yea. I don't think anybody is arguing that point. I don't think the craziest, most nut hugging Jones fan would argue that point. Hell, I don't think BonesKnows would argue that point.

Well he would have a 10.5 inch reach on Fedor, and like everyone has been saying hes overally successful because of a massive reach and size advantage so id give Jones a very solid chance in that fight

i keep reading about Bones length being the reason for his great success

I don't remember anyone stating that the only reason for bones' success is length.

I've said he covers significant holes in his skillset with length, which is a very, very different thing than saying it's the only reason he's successful.

but not one person has brought up Gooses size. The only thing ive read was that they were similar in size/reach so it negated his (jones) advantage. My question is simply this, if Bones size and length is that big of an advantage why isnt Goose who is virtually equal in size minus a small reach being subject to the same sort of criticism?

First of all, your mistaking a lack of overhype as criticism. I don't know that I've seen anyone say anything other than Jones being an immensely talented, very young fighter. That's not criticism, that's a compliment. Saying that he's not as talented as he's made out to be isn't a criticism of him, it's a criticism of the hype machine using him to pimp fights, or of fanboys who don't know what they're talking about.

But Goose isn't ranked p4p. He's certainly not misrepresented as the #1 p4p fighter on the planet. If he were, there would be people trying to correct that misrepresentation, just as they are doing with Jones.

I don't remember anyone saying Jones isn't the best LHW. I don't know that I've seen anyone "criticize" him for his length. I've made statements intended to clarify the difference between p4p--as an attempt to measure pure skills if all fighters were the same size--and physical gifts. It's not a new concern. When Georges beat up Penn in the rematch, idiots made a big deal out of it being a great accolade in terms of his p4p greatness. It wasn't. When you have two fighters who are very skilled, the bigger guy is supposed to beat the smaller guy. That's how size advantages work. Again, that's not a criticism of Georges, it's a clarification of the difference between p4p and employing size as an advantage.

Would Goose be fighting for a title if he wasnt 6'5 with a 79 inch reach? Your guess is as good as mine, but if its subject to criticism in Jones case how can it not be the same for Goose (the only guy to put up a fight against Jones so far)

Nobody is criticizing their dominance as LHW's. But Goose isn't mentioned in any serious p4p-elite discussions, and Jones--erroneously--is.

is that concept really so difficult to grasp?

rh

All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

I don't remember anyone stating that the only reason for bones' success is length.

I've said he covers significant holes in his skillset with length, which is a very, very different thing than saying it's the only reason he's successful.

rh

I wasnt suggesting that people were saying Jones was only successful because of his length, but in a few of the threads based around Jones and/or the Jones/Goose fight there have been countless people on the boards here saying that Jones's success is credited to his reach and size advantage over his opponents. Here are just a few of the posts i was referring to in general;

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

What we got to see is a guy who is larger than 90% of the fighters he fights struggle because he wasnt simply bigger.

There is blood in the water, the sharks are coming

Originally Posted by CtGreat

I dont understand why some people harp on "size". Nah, fuck the fact that Gus is an insanely talented fighter; the main reason Jones struggled is because his size advantage wasn't there and Jones is overhyped...

Originally Posted by VimyRidge

I wonder what Jones' record would be if he had a 77inch reach like everyone else in the LHW division? Probably never very good. He still had a reach advantage over Gus, I wonder how the fight would have gone if the reach advantage was switched.

Originally Posted by 1inthechamber

I thought it would be a repeat of Davis vs Gus. I was shocked at his performance.

I've said this about his reach forever. Like I said before, Jones won't make top 5 at HW or maybe even top 10. He has a lot of improving to do, the look on his face was priceless when he kept just "spamming" (ufc 3 lol) those oblique kicks and Gus was still punching him in his face lol.

I think its safe to say we won't see that "Not Quite Human" shirt again.

Where i see it more like this;

Originally Posted by CtGreat

To me this fight was a representation of what happens when 2 colossol forces collide. Goose isnt just sucessful because he is big, hes fuckin talented, so is Jones.

I just see the "hes bigger and has a longer reach so thats why he has dominated opponents" taking away from what Jones has done when the same argument could also be used against Goose. Im not talking P4P or greatness in the LHW division, im simply talking one fighter to the other, how is the length and size argument any different for Goose as it is for Jones?

And also on a side note riv, (and this is an honest question) wouldn't using his size and length be a skill in its own? We see guys with huge reaches and length not succeed like Bones or Goose ex. Struve, Big foot, Kongo, Mitrione - all above an 80 inch reach but dont have the same success.

And also on a side note riv, (and this is an honest question) wouldn't using his size and length be a skill in its own? We see guys with huge reaches and length not succeed like Bones or Goose ex. Struve, Big foot, Kongo, Mitrione - all above an 80 inch reach but dont have the same success.

Spatial recognition is indeed a key tool in striking, yet it is not such an insurmountable skill that it will overcome any other, especially against fighters with different tools that can counter at the correct time. Jones has highly commendable skills but not enough to cross the weight gap or overcome those of a JDS or Cain. Jones would fare well against all of the fighters you have listened baring perhaps Bigfoot.