I absolutely understand and relate to the desire to share out-of-print material - especially great material! Unfortunately, copying an out-of-print commercial recording is no more legal than copying one that is currently in stock at Amazon. And Instant Live's are commercial recordings.

I received a show last year that was traded as an audience recording and about a month later I ordered the 6 pack Instant Live. After listening to the Instant Live I was amazed at how close the trade sounded to the Instant Live
Unfortunately I can't remember who sent it to me.
It is sad that we even have to bring up this subject and that the rest of our trading is in danger of being terminated.

*I absolutely understand and relate to the desire to share out-of-print material - especially great material! Unfortunately, copying an out-of-print commercial recording is no more legal than copying one that is currently in stock at Amazon. And Instant Live's are commercial recordings.*

This is where things get weird. I would like to know what the ABB/management's stance is over the recent dvd project headed by Denza. Is this supported by them, & the like?

Similar to TanDan, I've transferred things from vinyl, well... b/c it's only available on vinyl. After getting it on cdr format, I HAVE given them to people that were interested. Maybe 2-5 people. However, let's be serious-if hundreds & thousands of people wanted a cdr copy off of me, I probably wouldn't need to do the transfer in the first place>the album would most likely be IN PRINT so I could just buy it. Would've saved me much time & money if this was the case.

There are exceptions though: I think Neil Young figured this out when he finally released "On the Beach" on cd.

I won't get into the studio sessions involving Duane..... yet. Maybe some day. A labor of love that has been betrayed by those LOSERS on ebay.

I don't think copying/transferring OOP (out of print material) to the IL shows is remotely close with the degree of "violations" we are discussing. Is it wrong, & breaking the law? Probably. But let's use our heads here. There is a demand for Instant Live shows right now. They need to be purchased to support HTN, Kid Glove, & the other bands involved.

If they are traded then tapers will lose incentive to go to the shows and tape. They put forth a LOT of effort, friends! Listen to their tapes with pride! Don't sneak around trying to get an Instant Live after the fact.

You could've gotten one from Kid Glove. If you didn't and still get one, then you are betraying the Brotherhood! Harsh words, but fact.

Please, just trade for the audience tape if you weren't cognizant enough to get the IL.

I'm trying to collect all the '04 shows. I have alot of IL's from the 18 '04 shows I've been to and also have alot of audience recordings that I've collected so far. I'll say at least 90% of the audiences are every bit as good as the IL's and in some cases better. Also, some of my IL's have a TAO type gap between tracks which is annoying and for the money paid should not be there. The powers that be are right to bitch about the copyright infringement which has been going on since the IL's were introduced ( you're just noticing now?) but a little quality control of the discs themselves (the TAO gaps go back to the '03 discs too) would be appreciated by this paying customer...

Is this horse dead yet???????????????? This has been beatin into a pile of trebeling slop.........

It's amazing that Rowland needs to step in to CLARIFY what has been said on this forum many many times.......But because it hasn't been said by someone who people think has the knowledge there are some who would actually question the legaity of trading released material......And make excuses like...."Hey I'm ripping of corporations who have been ripping us off for years!!!".........If it has been release at any time and is in print or not you don't have the right to make numerous copies to give out to others who will then do the same thing.......

It really is a no-brainer.............

____________________Believin' is alright just don't believe in the wrong thing....Sonny Boy Williamson

quote:Is this horse dead yet???????????????? This has been beatin into a pile of trebeling slop.........

It's amazing that Rowland needs to step in to CLARIFY what has been said on this forum many many times.......But because it hasn't been said by someone who people think has the knowledge there are some who would actually question the legaity of trading released material......And make excuses like...."Hey I'm ripping of corporations who have been ripping us off for years!!!".........If it has been release at any time and is in print or not you don't have the right to make numerous copies to give out to others who will then do the same thing.......

It really is a no-brainer.............

I don't think there are any who don't get it. There are many, however, who don't care.

Post the rules. [done] If one breaks the rules, they lose their privileges. Seems simple enough to me.

What I'm reading into Rowland's post though, is that if simply banning these abusers is not enough to stop the trend, then one or both of these things could happen 1) shows that are released as IL's will no longer be tradeable (which I believe is the Dick's Picks policy) and 2) this web site will no longer support a trading forum. I'm sure most of us would agree that either of these possibilities are grim. And, while the GD organization can put a policy in place about old shows, it's really up to the integrity of the traders to live up to it. The ABB can give the policy some teeth, however, by enforcing this at future shows: not allowing people to tape any IL show.

If people were not allowed to audience tape IL shows, and then after the IL's of those particular shows were out of print... this would drive demand and prices through the ceiling. It would be like prohibition. A bonanza for the illegal traders. If they forbid audience taping of specific IL shows they would need to make damn sure a massive supply existed for them to not go out of print for a long time. Imagine the most mind blowing ABB show ever. Then imagine no audience tapes existed. Then imagine the 50,000 or so IL's of that show sell out. Those would be on e-bay at unbelievable prices and a certain amount of people would cdr them at unbelievable prices. The only real alternative would be no taping and no IL's. And that most mind blowing show would be gone forever.

Concerning the older IL shows that are no longer available, I think that at some point down the line that the ABB and/or ClearChannel will eventually set-up a website, that for a fee, someone could download some of these "archival" IL shows. The shows are already digitally recorded and if there is a demand for certain "archival" shows, this would be a way for fans to get a IL quality recording of the show and still allow the ABB to be compensated for their work. It's certainly something for the band to think about, which I'm sure some of them may be doing.

Hey does anybody have a feel for what the other bands are doing? The ones that also do the IL thing? Are they more liberal as far as trading, or are they of the same thought as the ABB? I'm just kinda curious of what the norm is?

PEARL JAM has directly said that they do not give a f*ck what anyone does with their IL recordings (the NY show has Eddie Vedder saying to the crowd to trade them all you want).... " If you bought a copy, thank you "

I know for a fact that PEARL JAM is not linked to Clear Channel/Instant Live. It is another company that is doing their shows.

THE WHO doesn't seem to care either.
PIXIES only print up 1000 copies per show. Almost all the shows recordings have been sold out before the show happenes via a pre-sale.

Thanks RON, completely forgot about PHIL LESH...... The live downloads are his gift to his fans for buying his concert tickets year after year without record sales. Just seems right to him to give back to the hard-core fans who have supported him for years.

[Edited on 1/5/2005 by Billy_Kain]

____________________ I will never again consider abandoning my principles to strike a bargain

I don't think the profit from ABB IL's would increase if Audience Tapers were banned from the shows, I mean how many people actually trade... I doubt many that attend concerts..... I could be wrong because there are a lot of us around. Even people that do trade, still buy IL's... I can see if the copy and tradings of IL's continues, I'm sure Tapers will be banned from not only ABB gigs, but all clearchannel gigs... hence, wiping out most of tape traders

____________________We're a winner and never let anybody say "boy, you can't make it!"

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