kronicfeld:No, sorry, you can't throw up eleventh-hour barriers to vote and claim that they won't have a substantial impact.

I really think that in general, there should be requirement that new requirements for voting and other election law changes should not go into effect in the next election cycle. If they're such good changes, and not partisan in nature, then that shouldn't be a problem, right? Let the people vote on their representatives at least once before changing the rules about how they can vote.

iheartscotch:The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

CravenMorehead:Voter ID is a fine idea. The problem is that Republicans want to push these laws through as fast as they can making it harder for people that typically vote Democratic. Students, minorities and the poor will all have a more difficult time voting.

Want to do it right? Do the ID part of the law first. Make sure every citizen has an ID (for free) so they can vote. Then put the ID requirement for voting through. That is, if you're really interesting in preventing voter fraud and making sure everyone can vote.

Part of the problem with that is a good number of people are dead set against any form of national id. Damned if I know why. There is no reason you can't issue a single card today that can link all my id's, passport included, and have it be the same on a national level.

As for the cost, I just renewed my drivers license this weekend. $24 for 4 years. and that is in Jersey, I'd imagine other states are cheaper. If you can't make a $6 yearly investment in something that is going to make your life so much easier, well, you probably shouldn't have a say in anything to begin with.

moothemagiccow:Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

DrivingPurchasing a firearmCarrying a firearmCashing a checkOpening a bank accountUsing a debit or credit cardOpening a line of creditBoarding a commercial flightGoing to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)Getting a passportBuying tobaccoBuying alcoholBuying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)Going over the border into Canada or MexicoTransferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Photo ID. Handicapped, elderly and indigent. People you probably don't know or see, but are still citizens with a right to vote.

I already provided adequate ID when I registered to vote. I can vote with my registration card, which lacks a photo.

Then get them a freakin' ID so they can use it in the rest of their lives. Not having that little card more or less screws you over for opportunity in today's world.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Yes because it's Democrats AND ONLY Democrats that commit voter fraud.

Maybe you should try using Google before you say something this asinine.

Voter fraud help whoever has control of the political machine in the area. If Republicans win due to fraud, then throw those bastards out as well. The machine in PA is solid blue, so allowing fraud there helps Democrats out more than it would Republicans.

On any level, from any party, voter intimidation, voter fraud, and voter disenfranchisement are wrong.

If it means paying a little more from the state for a free version of the state IDs that are already issued, that can be used to make sure that one person, one vote means just that, then so be it.

How dumb do states and their legislatures have to be? One state (Indiana) has already provided the blueprint for a Voter ID law that survived a SCOTUS case and came out with a 6-3 majority. Whether or not you oppose or support the Voter ID laws, the sheer amount of party stupidity and ignorance in the state governments is pretty shocking.

bhcompy:Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

State IDs usually cost money which violates the 24th amendment forbidding poll taxes. Interestingly enough, adjusting for inflation, poll taxes were only about $18 in today's dollars. So there was a time that even Republicans were concerned enough about the poor having to shell out $18 in order to vote that it became an amendemnt.

Both parties have the same problem, just in different states.Their cushion of dead voters and corrupted district vote tallies are old and expensive to keep up.There are way too many new young, activated and insulted old, and brown voters showing up.

Bendal:bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Lots of people who are "poor" work at jobs that don't give them time off, or if they don't work, may not have a vehicle, or have to rely on public transportation that doesn't go past whereever the ID office is located and is open. Some states closed ID offices in areas of heavy Democratic populations, others changed the times they were open to very restrictive hours. Other states don't come out with the requirements for the ID's, so someone needing an ID may have to make multiple trips to the office to get all the documents.

/still don't see what the actual goal is, do you?

But, but, but; if the id card place isn't open 24 hours a day, and if there isn't a dedicated bus line; how will undocumented immigrants steal old people's identities?

I'm not being serious; but dems aren't innocent as lambs in all this. Some of the same stuff happens to the 3 republicans in the democratic republic of California.

Depending on the state; it's pointless to be republican or democrat. I think political parties should be outlawed; mainly because of the "us vs. them" attitude that pervades the system.

qorkfiend:Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

DrivingPurchasing a firearmCarrying a firearmCashing a checkOpening a bank accountUsing a debit or credit cardOpening a line of creditBoarding a commercial flightGoing to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)Getting a passportBuying tobaccoBuying alcoholBuying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)Going over the border into Canada or MexicoTransferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.

slykens1:qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

Why don't you read the thread, or any one of the hundreds of other threads on this topic?

fireclown:PonceAlyosha: It is a poll tax and thus violates the constitution. The right to vote is contingent on showing up, nothing else.

The right to vote HOW many times?

That's the issue though. There just isn't much evidence that this actually happens and who it helps. Why it gets overturned is you cannot make sure thousands of people cannot vote because someone MIGHT break the system. Most actual election fraud that has been discovered this cycle is at a higher level than the individual voter (with both parties being guilty). I'm sure we'll find 3 total people on election day who break the rules and say that DEFINITELY means we should make it so that people have to pay for their rights.

Shiat, entire county results can be altered in an instant with the touch of a button or loading of Flash memory on an electronic voting machine or by modification of the centralized results database, and we're concerned that someone may drive around to multiple polling places in person?

Dimensio:A judge on Tuesday blocked Pennsylvania's divisive voter identification requirement from going into effect on Election Day, delivering a hard-fought victory to Democrats who said it was a ploy to defeat President Barack Obama and other opponents who said it would prevent the elderly and minorities from voting.

This claim is entirely without merit. Democrats would have an audience believe that the governor of Pennsylvania was recorded as stating that the "Voter ID" legislation would enable Mr. Romney to win the state.

Nevermind the complete lack of evidence of that being a problem in PA, subby. Simple logic: if the solution disenfranchises more viable voters than the number of fraudulent votes it prevents (by, oh, infinity percent or so), then the law is retarded and is itself a thinly veiled attempt at fraud via the system.

DrivingPurchasing a firearmCarrying a firearmCashing a checkOpening a bank accountUsing a debit or credit cardOpening a line of creditBoarding a commercial flightGoing to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)Getting a passportBuying tobaccoBuying alcoholBuying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)Going over the border into Canada or MexicoTransferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

So, what you're doing is pretending that all the cases of people who couldn't get the requisite photo ID necessary to vote in PA were fictitious.

If you have a PA driver's license, you are automatically registered to vote.

I hated growing up in PA. Its probably the reason why I don't give a shiat about politics. Growing up in a rural area meant that a-hole Rendell would pass legislature to benefit inner-city, then the repubs figure how to rape the land and give jobs such as trucker to the state.

DrivingPurchasing a firearmCarrying a firearmCashing a checkOpening a bank accountUsing a debit or credit cardOpening a line of creditBoarding a commercial flightGoing to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)Getting a passportBuying tobaccoBuying alcoholBuying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)Going over the border into Canada or MexicoTransferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.