The Connor Hawke Green Arrow and Steel were on Morrisonís JLA at the same time, no? Although artists kept forgetting that Connor was mixed-race. If you drop the men qualifier, Black Lightning and Vixen were on Meltzerís JLA together.

Blonde Connor Hawke (are we ever going to see him again? I wonder) kept reading as White, for the reason to just mentioned.

True about Vixen and Black Lightning on the JLA during Meltzer's run, which I didn't read, because I hadn't forgiven him for INFINITE CRISIS, and still haven't, though his contribution to ACTION COMICS #1000 is quite good.

The thing that bothers middle-of-the-road to hard right type of people is that media -- comics, network news, TV, Hollywood, late night TV, comedians, etc are over-saturated with strong left leaning views that act like "the right can do no good" and should have no space to exist, or come off that way at least. Clumping everyone into a racist umbrella, etc.

This is just one of the factors that got Trump elected, people were sick of it.

I would prefer comic characters to be more fair on individual issues, leaning right on some, and left on some, just like regular folks. Not lumping everything plus the kitchen sink into a bag that can be labeled.

I think if you are going to have a character in anything express an opinion it's generally a good idea to have someone with a different view shown along with it for balance... I'm thinking of the new Roseanne show here more than say All In The Family or 'Til Death Us Do Part where one side is a caricature. If as a writer you can't write from multiple viewpoints you are maybe in the wrong business in my opinion.

I'm not sure about making statements in the format of a super-powers, or otherwise fantasy, scenario; even at best it's not quite playing straight after all. I kind of found Art Spiegelman's Maus a bit uncomfortable for reasons other than the family history shared in it (with talking animals, um, er, why?). It's a bloody tricky thing to pull off such things and have the respect of a majority of readers/viewers. Gene Roddenberry might be a best case scenario. If I have something capital 'I' important to say, or a War And Peace in me, why would I have colorful costumes and a lot of fantasy elements? I guess I'm a skeptic still on comic stories being fully mature... maybe Joe Kubert's Fax From Sarajevo?

Did the title get changed?======No the title didn't change.Simply pointing to the behind the scenes mess about Meyer's video commentaries about Marvel comics being used as a social and political manifesto. Waid seems to have taken exception to it.

I followed that story and even agreed at times with Diversity & Comics but he went way over the line with some things. The pros that he is arguing with are not much better but the personal attacks on both sides is pretty sad. The idea that someone does not want you to read their comics because of how you vote is ridiculous. The idea that a comic is not to your liking so you want the talent fired all the way up to the editor-in-chief is equally ridiculous maybe worse. It shows that lack of maturity among the fans and people working in comics. We almost expect it from a certain number of fans but the fact that the pros are stooping to that level is bad as well.

Shawn, the core of Meyer's argument about an SJW movement beyond diverse characters is one I agree with. I find a good chunk of the dialogue to have contempt of the straight, white, male portion of society.

Like you I think Meyer has crossed a line on a few occasions. My theory is, if you want to criticize creators to get better product, don't stoop to childish name calling.

Dan Slott tweeted him to make his own comic, and create the content he wants to see. So, he did. His online funded book got over 6500 buys and a quarter of a million dollars in funding. This caught the interest of Antarctic Press. They decided to publish the book after the online campaign was honored. Then things got stupid.

Here is what I know to be fact after seeing screen shots.

Mark Waid, who is also a store owner, got together with other shop owners, on Facebook to block ordering Meyer's book from being ordered. The group also decided to not fill orders of customers who directly asked for the book.

Meyer published a list of stores that wouldn't carry the book. He did ask that the stores be left alone yet store phone numbers were on the list.

Waid admits via social media that he personally contacted Antartic Press.What was said is not completely known.

After this phone call, Antartic Press releases a statement saying they have changed their minds. They are backing out of their agreement and are not publishing the book anymore.

All of Mark Ward's social media accounts have been shut down. Facebook, Twitter, everything.

Meyer has filed a suit against Mark Waid with the Federal Trade Commission.

Other things have been said but I haven't anything to back it up. The rest is he said/He said.

This went from people talking ugly to each other, to something that feels a bit more sinister.

To be fair, Meyer throws gas on the fire because his valid points are often overruled by his obsession with calling out pros who he disagrees with. He and others couldn't let Heather Antos post a dumb picture on Instagram without him first mind reading and trying explain that's why Marvel comics are big sellers. Granted there's a difference between today's editors and the more professional editors of the past but that's more of a sign of the times. Remember how Marvel treated JB under the Joe Q Regime?

Bloggers and the Twitter-verse call out Marvel for not employing female or black writers and all of the sudden, a tidal wave of new books come out with press releases touting the hiring of female and black writers. Marvel is called out for not having female-led comics and we get swamped with every B-level and C-level female character in their own book.* The thing I always appreciated about Christopher Priest/Jim Owsley, Louise Simonson, Keith Pollard, Ann Nocenti, Dwayne McDuffie, Mark Bright, June Brigman, Darryl Banks and Mary Jo Duffy is that they were professionals working on comics. I never thought "It's great that a woman is writing Power Man and Iron Fist" or "It's great that an African American is writing Spider-Man". I don't begrudge Marvel hiring people but I do feel it's insincere when they have to follow it with a press release to show how diverse their talent roster is. You were denying people the opportunity to begin with (since they do the hiring), possibly discouraging people from trying to enter the field and now we're supposed to gush at how wonderful Marvel is now?

*I remember blogs making fun of Squirrel-Girl for the longest time when she was just linked to Steve Ditko but now she's the greatest find of the decade because someone with a Tumblr thinks she's cool?

When the books they produce sell under 19,000 copies, you hope there will be an industry for the pendulum to swing back on.

Champions #17 released in February sold 18,600 copies. It was written by Mark Waid and drawn by Humberto Ramos.The books features the new Ms. Marvel, the new Hulk, the newish Spider-Man and the newish Nova, Ironheart (female Iron M an) and the n ew female Vision. These are the characters they've been promoting.

The Heather Antos milkshake photo wasn't just Antos. It wasn't really about having a milkshake. It was all of the Asst. Editor hires that were brought in to quiet the masses. All females who unfortunately didn't seem to be doing a very credible job. Most of them have moved on or have been let go. But, while there, the Asst. Editor's were running the day to day issues with the books and the talent. When the photo dropped on Antos' Twitter account, it got blasted by angry fans as they saw a collective of what they felt was the problem with Marvel. Meyer was one of them. I only post this because most of the reporting at the time never gave it context.

I agree that Meyer has been over the line, but not as often as his detractors would have you think. Meyer isn't the only voice on YouTube either. There are at least a half a dozen channels devoted to the issue and the number is growing.

I never knew this existed until the report came out that Waid want to square off with Meyer at Baltimore-Con last year. So, i started to research the subject from both angles. Now it seems that a communication Waid (and rumored others) had with Antartic Press could possibly be beyond the petty gripe-fest, and actually breached into criminal activities.

"you hope there will be an industry for the pendulum to swing back on."

H*ll yeah. Just as records are being set by the movies, comic books are teetering on no longer being a mass-medium, more a glorified collectable fanzine community. When you hear of twenty 'alternate' covers of an issue #1 you might get a hint why... never mind inclusivity or diversity at all costs. Seeing character X as a female or supposed 'minority' really isn't grabbing me in the least. You know what would though? I mean aside from good writing and decent non-exteme muscles and boobs art? New creations!!! And as for the old ones, you can follow up the movies with accessible (non-multiple tie-in crossover milking of fans) and recognizable comicbooks. Comic books are not future-historically-important burning-issues-addressing graphic-sequential-narratives. They are affordable light melodrama usually, but I really liked them and am prepared to like them again like all those people paying to see the recycled movie versions of them. Melodrama not good enough? Go write your fourteen part, three title masterpiece with super powers elsewhere. Who looks to comic books for all this extraneous social jazz and where has that actually paid off?

Green Lantern/Green Arrow by Denny O'Neil & Neal Adams did not actually sell well, it was shifted to the back of The Flash and then brought back as more basic adventure by Mike Grell. I know they meant well and were trying to 'deal' with issues and the times and all, but it was continually preachy cutting into the entertainment aspect. I might even be 100% in agreement with the poilitics and sentiments of such things, but too much of it and it kills the motor of these concepts which after all were mostly dreamed up with 8-12 year old readers in mind, sorry.

I think it's great that there are diverse characters , there have been for quite awhile, but if it is white males mostly buying super hero comics... well, do the math. No problem here. I still have read about them, and read about female characters written by men, black characters written by white people, and vice-versa.

Missing: solid involving stories, new characters, and art that is not more suited to fringe interest undergrounds.

Missing: general audience accessible distribution.

Missing: actual business people as opposed to dream fulfilling fans turned pros.

Missing: f u n.

Comic books were affordable, fun to read and collect, they were colorful, unpretentious, friendly, and they sparked creativity beyond tracing or wanting the ego boost of seeing your name on something already famous. How could all that be an anachronism or so out of fashion? The only one stopping anyone from making such comics is ultimately themself.

Financially, the industry to a nosedive last year. Meltdown Comics closed. I repeat Meltdown Comics Closed! As big as it was, it diversified it's income with a stage space for comedy and open Mic nights, the sale of original artwork and podcasting. They were one of, if not the largest comic shops on the west coast. They are gone.

I don't condone many of Meyer's tactics, but his notion that comic companies, especially Marvel tend to look at themselves as social clubs that produce comics where everyone needs representation And the books need to discuss it as opposed to a business selling fun adventure stories seems pretty on the nose.

No the title didn't change.Simply pointing to the behind the scenes mess about Meyer's video commentaries about Marvel comics being used as a social and political manifesto. Waid seems to have taken exception to it.

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Oh, I wasn't trying to be snotty, when I got an email on the thread it looked alien to me, even though I posted on it, so it made me think the tile may have been something else before.

I got into a debate with a guy in the comments section at the Beat who proclaimed that no one had a problem with how "Reaganized" Marvel Comics were in the 80's. He basically said that JB, Stern, and Simonson were writing comics from a right wing point of view! I personally don't feel they came down on one side or the other in their stories but they allowed you to think.

I got into a debate with a guy in the comments section at the Beat who proclaimed that no one had a problem with how "Reaganized" Marvel Comics were in the 80's. He basically said that JB, Stern, and Simonson were writing comics from a right wing point of view! I personally don't feel they came down on one side or the other in their stories but they allowed you to think.

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Comics seemed pretty neutral to me back then, but I was a young punk. I think as the years have gone by, media has fanned the flames of division to the extreme.

I guess the biggest thing, that is being frowned at now, is women were drawn super hot. I don't think that was a right wing thing back then, but it seems to be now.

I guess the biggest thing, that is being frowned at now, is women were drawn super hot.

I blame the 90's Image style. Look at how JB, Neal Adams, John Buscema, John Romita Jr., and Walt Simonson among others drew women. Their women were attractive but there was a variety of body types not contorted and exaggerated the way that many drew them in the 90's. One could go in the same direction with males and their muscles. JB's Namor looked like he was a swimmer, the 90's Namor would sink pretty fast!

CHARACTERS should be left wing, right wing, liberal, conservative, etc. Stories should be situational, but not consistently one aspect or another.

Both sides of the political spectrum will claim that Captain America should be either right wing or left wing. I feel he represents everyone, wearing the flag doesn't mean that he has to be overly political. There can be political stories told (and have been told) but the motivations of a character should never be dictated by the writer's personal philosophy. Unfortunately, today's "pro" does that a lot.

Cap is a product of the New Deal era. He's a "take care of the common man" type. That's just who he is. Pushing him further left than that would be out of character, but so would turning him into "privatize everything in existence" conservative.

If you take Green Arrow's left-wing views (or at least verbiage) away from him you end up with a pretty boring character.

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