I am not an expert in the relationship and background to the IHR and Mark Weber, save to say I know there was some kind of major fall out between various parties there and accusations of malpractice. But I have of course read some of his stuff on the IHR website and seen some videos of his together with joint appearances with David Irving.

In this video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlUkTt ... redirect=1 he talks a lot of sense and repeats the accepted Revisionist position on most of the main issues but..... in the last few minutes of this talk he says that millions of jews lost their lives in the second world war. Really? Does he actually mean this? If he is as I think, a Revisionist who denies the gas chambers and related holocaust death tolls, how can he claim such a thing as millions of jews died?

I could have missed something here but would appreciate any background info on Mark Weber's comments as to what he really thinks and how it can be justified.

'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

Weber just isn't credible anymore, much like the compromised David Irving. It's one thing to say that 'millions of Jews died', it's quite another to produce proof of such empty claims. It appears Weber is trying to play "holocaust-lite", as Hannover describes it, a la Irving, The question remains why he would even make such a statement? Weber must benefit in some manner. I do note that his IHR has regained it's ability to receive credit card payments for ordered materials which previously had been revoked.B.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

Weber. I have no confidence in that person anymore, I'm afraid. But at the time of being a complete newbie, many years ago, I thought very well of him. He even used to answer e-mails sent to him, being very cordial and friendly, but nowadays he doesn't even reply. So I said the hell with it, won't even recommend any of the material on his site, instead I look for it on CODOH and give a link to it. No more visits, support or anything else for Mr. Weber from me.

Did Mark explain how he arrived at this number? Let me try. Quick calcuations.

There were twenty two main Nazi ninternment camps. We know that about thirty-thousand Jews died at Auschwitz. So lets suppose that on the average 15,000 Jews died in the 22 camps. That's 330,000 Jewish deaths. How can we find another 700,00?

How about this? We know that about 150,000 Jews fought for Germany in WW 2. (Mark Riggs) Suppose, for the sake of this argument , that 100,000 of these soldiers died. And suppose that these soldiers all had families who were not send to the camps. Suppose then that there were five million such full, half and quarter Jewhs in Germany during the war. Also let's suppose that about ten percent of them died during and after the war...a not unreasonable per cent. That's about the percent of German civilians who died during this time. That would mean that 500, 000 of these Jews would have died. How many Jews died fighting for Russia? We know that Uncle Joe would not have given these Eastern Jews a free ride. Of the two or three million Jews who fled to Russia, it is not unreasonable to think that a couple of hundred thousand of them might have died on the Western Front. So if we also consider the number of Jews who were killed as partisans, or simply out of Eastern European hate and revenge for the Bolshevik killings from 1914 to 1945 throughout communist Eastern Europe, the number of Jews who died during the war in total could easily be over a million. Add it up. David Irving and Mark may be right.

Barrington James, you posted the same thing 3 times - delete two of them. I'm talking off the top of my head here but I don't find your numbers in any way at all reasonable. BTW, Mark Weber has claimed recently that over 2 million Jews died, and that the AR camps gassed Jews! What a ridiculous piece of work Mark Weber is nowadays - he should be ignored. But let's get back to the numbers you posted. You're first sentence is a wild guess with no logistics in your post backing it up (the same as Mark Weber's recent pronouncements - I wish he would flesh out his opinions or keep his mouth shut on the matter).

The rest of your post I consider even more nonsensical. 150,000 Jews fought for Germany in WW2? No way. I haven't read Mark Riggs book but I was of the opinion that he was talking about 1/8th Jews and the like (or less Jewish). They don't count at all. Your 5 million Jews in Germany figure is a puzzle to me. If you mean under German controlled territory, that sounds about right; but this is just pulled out of thin air. Very few Jews died on the "Western Front" - I'm assuming you mean "Eastern Front". But if you mean "Western Front", it of course is unreasonable to assume "that a couple of hundred thousand of them might have died". How many Jews do you think were in the West? A couple hundred thousand dying would mean practically all Western Jews died. The Eastern territories with large numbers of Jews and large numbers of Jewish partisans and Jews in the Soviet military is where the bulk of Jewish deaths must have occurred. Your reasoning on all the rest needs some backing for me to see it as anything but fanciful musings on your part.

“Mark Weber: …certainly the number of jews who died or lost their lives or were killed, total, is certainly more than maybe 2 million, but it’s less than 6 million.

Caller Jim: Oh really? Uh, but there were no homicidal gas chambers, am I correct on that?

Mark Weber: stammering … bla bla bla … (1:00:55) But I do believe, uh, the evidence shows, that there were gassings of jews at Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec … (1:01:14) but, my views on that are the same as, uh, David Irving and and some others…”

...

According to Matthew Taylor of – The Guardian, the following words came directly out of David Irving’s mouth on or about the evening of Sept. 26, 2007:

“In my opinion now the real killing operations took place at the Reinhardt camps west of the Bug river. In the three camps here [Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka] Heinrich Himmler’s men (mostly Ukrainian mercenaries) killed possibly as many as 2.4 million in the two years up to October 1943.

…

I do accept that the Nazis quite definitely, that Heinrich Himmler, organised and directed a programme, a clandestine programme, for the liquidation of European Jews … and that in 1942-43 alone over 2.5 million Jews were killed in those three camps.”

You're first sentence is a wild guess with no logistics in your post backing it up (the same as Mark Weber's recent pronouncements - I wish he would flesh out his opinions or keep his mouth shut on the matter).

Good point.

Greg Gerdes is offering Mark Weber $700.00 for answering just 7 simple questions in an attempt to get him to flesh out his opinioins.

# 6 – Is it true or false that, in at least one of these four archaeological sites – there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans – during their time of occupation? – TRUE. – or – FALSE. __?__

# 7 – Is it true or false that, in at least one of these four archaeological sites – there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators – after the time of German occupation? – TRUE. – or – FALSE. __?__

Thanks for the reply. Upon reading the replies it would appear that I gave Irving and Weber too much credit for saying that as many as a million Jews , or even more , had died in the holocaust. However as I said above. My argument was that about a million Jews, Jews by Jewish law, may have died in WW 2 by sickness in the camps, or by Allied bombing, or as soldiers in Stalin's army or as partisans, or as the victims of Christian revenge in Eastern Europe for their Bolshevik terror- maybe more. I will further explain.

However part of the problem in trying to come up with the number of Jewish victims in WW 2 is in defining who is a Jew. It's tricky. Since the Jews have long declared that anyone who has a Jewish mother is a Jew then this means that even today an uninterrupted female line of Jews can produce generations of people who are Jews whether they consider themselves Jews or not. Consequently Churchill, for example, whose mother was the Jew Jenny Jerome was by Jewish law a Jew. So was Elvis Presley. His great grand-?mother was Jewish and his own mother, who was proud of her Jewish heritage, was by Jewish law a Jewi, although she considered herself a Christian. She did, however, have the star of David placed on her own tombstone.

To make this problem more complicated, it is a fact that Germany had been a great country for Jews until Hitler. The German Jews had long broken away from the control of the Rabbis; they no longer all lived in Rabbi controlled ghettos as they did in most of Eastern Europe. By 1933 they had long been emancipated in Germany and had all the rights of ordinary Germans for at least three generations. Which means that many Jews had been marrying non- Jews since the 1800's to such an extent that there would have been very few Jews left in Germany within a few more generations. It means that the blood of the 500,000 Jews in Germany in 1933 would , in a few more generations, join the blood of the millions of other Germans who had Jewish blood in their veins at that time. This got to be a very messy problem for the Zionists and the Nazis when they began trying to drive the best qualified Jews out of Germany and into Palestine, and the rest of the less desirable Jews to any other place that would take them.. (Read Edwin Black and Ingrid Weckert.)

Simply put, there were millions of more Jews in Germany than the Nazis ever thought possible. And, if we can believe Rigg, there were at least 150,00 loyal German Jews by the Nazi/ Jewish definition of a Jew, whether they considered themselves Jews or not, we're in the Nazi military, starting with Field Marshal Erhard Milch, creator of the Lufwalfe; Adolph Eichmann, who was born in Palestine; and General Reinhard Heydrich of all people.

So if there were 150,000 Jews in the military, how many such Jews, full, half, quarter and so on were still in Germany in 1939, and how many such Jewish families, and how many such Jews lived in Germany throughout the war? I can only guess. Clearly these 150,000 young men had families.

I also have obviously guessed at the average number of Jews who died in the camps...a better guess would probably be about 10,000. ....and other such guesses.

However my quick guess was to try and give Irving, and Mark some credit for the good they once gave to the truth..

Mr. James, you are certainly making some, IMO, wild statements here, such as:

It means that the blood of the 500,000 Jews in Germany in 1933 would , in a few more generations, join the blood of the millions of other Germans who had Jewish blood in their veins at that time.

No, it doesn't "mean" that at all. That is just your assertion. You seem to be just making things up as you go.you stated:

This got to be a very messy problem for the Zionists and the Nazis when they began trying to drive the best qualified Jews out of Germany and into Palestine, and the rest of the less desirable Jews to any other place that would take them

I have never seen the distinction between your "best qualified Jews" and your "less desirable Jews" made by the NS German government, they simply wanted Jews to leave, period. Again, it seems you are flying by the seat of your pants.then:

Simply put, there were millions of more Jews in Germany than the Nazis ever thought possible.

Simply put, you have no basis for that statement. If so, please give us your sources and appropriate quotes. This forum is straight forward in demanding confirmation of statements made.

I would also like to see the basis for your '150,000 Jews in the Wehrmacht', please provide it. If Riggs claims it, then what is his basis for saying so, what are his sources?

Milch was not a Jew. His mother re-married a Jew after Milch's birth. Please get your facts right.

As for Heydrich, he allegedly had a Jew for a distant grandparent. Allied spy, Wilhelm Canaris said he had obtained photocopies proving Heydrich's Jewish ancestry, but these photocopies were typically never provided. "Photocopies"?

Eichmann was born in Solingen, Germany.

Weber, as has been stated, is now simply sitting in Irving's lap.Thank you. B.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

Barrington James:Please answer the questions directly as asked. If you cannot give specific citations in support of your claims then please do not respond with ambiguous, unspecific replies; chances are they will be deleted. Please re-read our simple guidelines which you agreed to. M1

I think we should use as a definition of a Jew one who self identifies as a Jew (overtly or covertly) for the purposes of these sorts of discussions. Although the speculations thrown around by Barrington James might be interesting, I don't see it as very constructive with regard to what any normal person on the street might want for an answer to what became of what were thought to have been millions of self-identified European Jews before WW2. So, for instance, claiming a figure for how many went covert after the war or simply stopped self-identifying as Jews would of course be reasonable with this scheme; but speculating about who has some distant Jewish blood in his veins and such is a bit off-topic - although interesting of course.

Can I just re-focus this issue a little bit here. Instead of a loose discussion about which Germans were jews, and caught up in the war and which jews died in the war and who had a friend's uncle's sister who once slept with a jew we need to bring this back to what Weber was actually talking about.

The video of Weber's that I referred to is specifically discussing the Holocaust. His comment is relating to Holocaust deaths only as far as I can ascertain from looking at the video once more. The claim he made was that millions of jews died in the war and that was a comment relating to Holocaust and nothing else.

'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

During the Manstein trial "British lawyer Baron Reginald Thomas Guy Des Voeux Paget investigated an alleged massacre by the Einsatzgruppen in the Crimea. 10,000 Jews were claimed to have been murdered in just one day, but the numbered turned out to be nearer 300, and of which a large percentage were not even Jews. Paget concluded that in general the reports from the Einsatzgruppen, were exaggerated by 1000%." (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... nazis.html)

As Father Desbois opened only one mass grave in Eastern Europe (former Jewish cemetry at Busk) and didn't even investigate its content, what enables Weber to state millions of Jews were 'holocausted' by bullets? A few quotes from Goebbels' diaries prove nothing. Assuming those diaries were not forged (at least in part), Goebbels' fierce antisemitism was a secret for nobody. What Goebbels wanted to do to Europe's Jews doesn't matter as their fate wasn't in his hands. He could only pressure his colleagues for the deportation of Berlin's Jews - what he did. The only number of Jews quoted by Weber from Goebbels' diaries is "tens of thousands". Still very far from Weber's 2 million. And nothing is said about how those Jews died. Hard labor and diseases were vasty enough to kill that number of Jews and probably even more.

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans.” – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915