Stonetalon Mountains Garrosh I would follow to death. Stonetalon Mountains Garrosh is the Garrosh that Thrall saw when he appointed him to Warchief.

"My fellow Horde... the blood haze has lifted. The demon's fire has burnt out in my veins... I have... freed... myself!"

:l

Garrosh. Is. Not. GROM.

And that stonetalon shit is litereally the ONLY THING anyone has in defense of Garrosh.

Ok, let me give another example. In comparison to another bad guy, anyone who ever saw the hunchback of notre dame (disneys) will know the villian in that movie, Judge Claude Frollo. He too was a character who was about racism, violence, greed, lust, and every vice you can think of.
Now Frollo had one scene of him about to kill quasimodo as a baby, but he's drawn back, not because he had a moment of humanity in him, but because he feared for his own soul if he killed a child, how god would look upon him for doing it.
And the character never changed from this experience, he instead carried on his plan of wiping out a group of people, attempted murder, he had already killed an innocent woman beforehand, arson, and in the end, he learned nothing and only gave into his lust, greed and malice.

Garrosh is the same sort of character, but just replace the concept of god with instead Garrosh trying to emulate his father, trying to 'make daddy proud'. Nothing Garrosh has ever done has truly been for the horde, it has always been his attempt to try and validate his existence, try and win his dead fathers approval, and thus making any twisted, nefarious act he committed validated on his personal level, nevermind the damage and death it caused to anyone else.

If I have to read the books to understand the story of the game, that is a failure of Blizzard and makes the entire point unworthy of discussion.

Wow this one is the top. You know that the very reason for which this game have a lot of paper is because a MMORPG is not the best kind of game for telling stories compared to a RTS right? That the majority of the player base are soft-hard-HARDER PvP guys or casual-medium-hardcore raiders that doesn't give a FUCK about the lore? You cannot pretend to have all the story in a game in which most players will simply ignore it.

And that stonetalon shit is litereally the ONLY THING anyone has in defense of Garrosh.

Ok, let me give another example. In comparison to another bad guy, anyone who ever saw the hunchback of notre dame (disneys) will know the villian in that movie, Judge Claude Frollo. He too was a character who was about racism, violence, greed, lust, and every vice you can think of.
Now Frollo had one scene of him about to kill quasimodo as a baby, but he's drawn back, not because he had a moment of humanity in him, but because he feared for his own soul if he killed a child, how god would look upon him for doing it.
And the character never changed from this experience, he instead carried on his plan of wiping out a group of people, attempted murder, he had already killed an innocent woman beforehand, arson, and in the end, he learned nothing and only gave into his lust, greed and malice.

Garrosh is the same sort of character, but just replace the concept of god with instead Garrosh trying to emulate his father, trying to 'make daddy proud'. Nothing Garrosh has ever done has truly been for the horde, it has always been his attempt to try and validate his existence, try and win his dead fathers approval, and thus making any twisted, nefarious act he committed validated on his personal level, nevermind the damage and death it caused to anyone else.

I can agree with this to a point, but another big part of Garrosh's character is that he tries to impress the Orcs by being brutal. He was judged or praised a lot when he first entered the Horde, simply for being a brown orc. Some people saw him as weak, some people saw him as a sign of hope, some people were jealous, and some people only knew that he was a Hellscream and damned him (something that seems to happen in real life discussions of him as well).

It would make sense that, if Garrosh was going to try to impress everyone, he would do things "the orc way" and try to show the might of the orcs. However, it's clear he simply took it too far at this point. Plus, his words have made himself many enemies.

Garrosh is a proud douchebag with daddy issue. That doesn't make him evil, makes him a proud douchebag with daddy issue.

Could he been a better orc? Yes, but Magatha Grimtotem killed the one advisor that could set him right. Since then, the constant pushing back from Alliance led Garrosh more and more to tyranny.

My guess anyway is that Garrosh it is not excatly the type of person that accepts easily honest criticism, especially if a non-orc do so. If an orc try to do so, he will simply ignore him instead of just outright insulting him (as he did with Vol'jin), like he probably did with Eitrigg.

Garrosh's ideal council of advisors would be an epic bunch of "yes man".

Even if people don't like it, say it's bad writing or silly, the guy does have faults and inner conflicts. It's quality is beside the point. It's subject matter on the other hand...

The novel Thrall: Twilight of Aspects I think handled it better. The problem with Elemental Bonds in 4.2 was that it was a glaring case of the writers failing the premise of 'show don't tell' when it comes to character traits. We don't see those flaws affecting his actions or affecting his life. We see them shouted from the rooftop only for Aggra to help him overcome those flaws in the very same questline they're introduced in. Take Garrosh for example. We don't need his subconscious manifesting to tell us that he's ruthless and proud to a fault. For that questline to work, it would have needed to set up those character flaws in advance.

But in the past year they've written him to be despised in MoP, he isn't even the same Garrosh to me that knew of honor and is better off dead.

Summarizes how I feel about Garrosh in MoP. In Cataclysm he wasn't that big of a douchebag, as he's only being aggressive for what's best of the Horde (other than racial leaders' tension between him and Sylvanas and Vol'jin). Now he's being aggressive for superiority through even more immoral means such as 'controlling' the Sha which I dislike.