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Ep. isode 48 Highlights & Transcript ▼

Highlights:

How growing up in small-town "flyover country" helped her find her way

Her first show, her heroes, and how she saw early potential in fitness social media

Why she still recommends fitness competitions, even though she doesn't compete anymore

Why she responds to so many comments on Instagram

Is hater-ism toward fit women on the decline?

Why giving away time, effort, and media is underrated

Why she likes five-week fitness challenges—and especially for money

How fitness challenges "ripple" into people's lives

Her new-found love for "functional fitness"

How Instagram sets aesthetic standards for training

How she draws hard limits with her phone use

Her process for turning notes and thoughts into Instagram posts

Why she recently decided to get back on to YouTube

How she landed on pescatarian dieting

Why bean burritos may just be the perfect food

Her changing taste in protein powders, and why she prefers pea

Why Nick only eats bad-tasting protein

How her dreams have changed as her success has grown. "I really want to help girls that want to do what I'm doing. I'm trying to find avenues with that, because so many girls now want to do what I've done."

Nick: She's a personal trainer, physique judge and competitor. And then we also happen to have Paige Hathaway here with us today.

Paige Hathaway: Random... just hanging out.

Nick: Paige is someone that Instagram has been trying to get you to follow for a really long time. So do it. What are you waiting for? She's right there.

Paige Hathaway: I like that.

Nick: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: You're like my hype man.

Nick: Also, popular fitness model, creator of a bunch of popular challenges, Fitin5 challenges...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Five weeks, not five days.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Also, you have a bunch of other stuff going on.

Paige Hathaway: Tons.

Nick: Starting a supplement line, clothing line... you're out there.

Paige Hathaway: Everywhere.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, Paige Hathaway, thank you so much for coming on to do this.

Paige Hathaway: Thanks. That's a really good intro!

Nick: Thank you! So now you're in L.A. these days, right? And by all appearances, pretty comfortable there.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: But you grew up in flyover country...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: ...like us out there in the middle of nowhere, right?

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Nick: So I was curious, since we're in Boise, which nobody cares about, you came from Oklahoma, which nobody cares about. Do you feel like being out there, kind of in the boonies, a little bit where there's not a big fitness culture, necessarily. There's not...

Paige Hathaway: Right.

Nick: A scene. Do you feel like that helped you?

Paige Hathaway: I think it did, you know? I used to not really appreciate as much...

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: ...where I came from.

Nick: When you're there, it's way easier to not appreciate it.

Paige Hathaway: Yes. But now that I live in L.A., I appreciate it so much more.

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: And I do think it helped a lot.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Like how?

Paige Hathaway: You know I think you have to really strive to push harder. No one...

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: Like, starting out, I was like nobody knows who I am. I'm from Oklahoma, you know what I mean?

Nick: Where in Oklahoma?

Paige Hathaway: Outside of the city of Mustang. I'm not sure, you probably don't know where that is...

Nick:The Mustang?

Paige Hathaway:The Mustang, Oklahoma.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: But yeah, you know, I was like no one knows who I am so I really have to make a big impression.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: So, that's what I did.

Nick: Okay. And you're first gym was just a hole in the wall gym...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: ...in Mustang, Oklahoma?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, that's... You know how I got started? I had a guy that was a hairdresser. He was opening a gym...

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: ...and I don't know... he was like Mr. Miyagi. He saw something in me that I didn't see in myself, and he really pressed hard on me to do fitness when I was like, "fitness what? What?"

Nick: Did you have really any...

Heather: Did you wax on and wax off?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I felt...

Nick: Good. Get those rotator cuffs...

Heather: Still one of the best training montages ever.

Nick: Absolutely.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, so I mean that's how I started. Just from him seeing a vision in me and then...

Nick: Were you doing really anything fitness-wise? Lifting at that point, or?

Paige Hathaway: I mean I played sports growing up, and I was someone that did classes every now and then.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: You know I would jump into one of those step classes at the gym every now and then, but I wasn't like going to the gym and lifting weights.

Nick: Okay so then he saw this vision in you and you were like alright that's it. Time to go sling some iron.

Paige Hathaway: Well, first I was like, "I don't really see that vision."

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: "I don't know how you see it. I'm trying to see it and I don't see it." But he was so persistent and he was like, "Just let me train you for a bikini show." And then I was like, "A bikini show?"

Nick: He was just trying to do your hair, though. I see potential in your hair.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: And so I did the biggest state show in the U.S. and got second. And then I kind of fell in love with it. And then that was the end of the story.

Heather: Now did you fall in love with weights, or did you fall in love with competing and then just the weights were the necessary means to the end?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. You know, I learned a lot about myself through competing, the first show especially. I learned that I'm... I've always been a hard worker. But when I started training, I just became... I don't want to say compulsive, but I became... this addiction grew on me with going to the gym and improving myself and living this lifestyle and that's what really... you know what I mean... like, grew on me and I became... I don't even know who I was at that time. I was like, "Who am I?" You know what I mean?

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). But then you'd look at yourself in the mirror every once-in-a-while like, oh, the muscles... they're coming! Was that something you were like, "That's really exciting to me"?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, and at the time, almost seven years ago, having muscle wasn't like a thing it is now. It wasn't as socially acceptable. But yeah, I liked it.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, one thing we ask a lot of people is like, who's the first bodybuilder that opened your eyes to say, "Okay, this is a thing. This is possible. I can look up to this person."

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, well back then, not that it was that long ago, seven years ago. Back in my day, it was girls in magazines. It wasn't social media, because social media wasn't the thing that it is now.

Heather: Right.

Paige Hathaway: So it was the girls in magazines. So, Jamie Eason, Chady Dunmore. Those were the girls that I really looked up to seven years ago. I still do. They're amazing.

Nick: Right. Yeah, they're still out there. That's amazing.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: They're still doing it.

Nick: But they were not only fitness models, they were also people who were fitness entrepreneurs in their own way, too.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: They were strong women.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. They were out there really owning their name...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: ...putting a brand out there. Did that appeal to you at all? Is it like...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, it did but... So, usually when you aspire, like you see someone and you aspire to maybe do what they've done, right?

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: You can kind of see their footsteps of what they've done. But no one had really done the social media thing at that time. So, I wanted to pave that direction.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: Because social media started to take off. So, yeah, they did inspire me for sure.

Nick: Sure, sure. So, was that after you did a bikini show or two and you were like, "You know what? I see there may be something here...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: ...where I didn't see anything before?"

Paige Hathaway: Yeah and I think that's why I am as popular as I am because I was one of the first females to get on social media and to start that trend. That's how it blew up so fast for me and grew so fast for me.

Nick: Sure.

Heather: Right. Got it on the ground floor.

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Nick: But you don't do shows anymore.

Paige Hathaway: No.

Nick: How many did you do total?

Paige Hathaway: I don't. I did three.

Nick: Okay.

Paige Hathaway: And, you know, it was great. I'm so glad I did it.

Nick: You don't look back and say, "What was I thinking?"

Paige Hathaway: No.

Nick: Because some people do sometimes.

Paige Hathaway: Oh, really? Wow. No I don't. It taught me a lot about myself, competing like I was saying before. I just never knew that my mind and my body was capable of those things.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: And it also taught me a lot for when I moved in and molded my business, you know? So, no I don't look back. I'm actually really glad I did it.

Nick: ...that kind of challenge? Because it's a little more abstract at that point, right?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: It's not like here I am on stage next to you, posing off...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: It's kind of alone.

Paige Hathaway: Right. Well you know like I said, me being from Oklahoma, I just wanted to get my name out there...

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: ...because no one was going to know who I was. So, I found anything I could try to enter in. The Bodybuilding.com thing was really cool and come to find out, because I'm friends with Danielle, that works here now. She was like, "Oh, my God, you went so far but you didn't do this and that and this." And I was like "Oh."

Nick: Oh, you could have won!

Heather: Oh.

Nick: You could have been somebody.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I could have! So close! Always a bridesmaid...

Nick: Yeah, exactly.

Paige Hathaway: ...never a bride.

Nick: So, as you started to rise–build your brand a little bit–did you come in contact with your former fitness icons, or people, like... Did you find yourself interacting with all of your heroes?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. You know, I actually... So, it's kind of crazy. Ludwig [Araujo] is now my manager but he was one of the first photographers I ever shot with. And he shot me and Chady together.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Paige Hathaway: And I was freaking out on the inside. And I would tell him, "Oh, my God, this is crazy!" And to her I was like, "Hi." You know what I mean? I had to act like I wasn't so starstruck but I was dying on the inside. I will never forget that.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Was it a positive experience?

Paige Hathaway: So cool!

Nick: Okay, good. Because we've heard from some people...

Heather: Yeah, sometimes when you meet your heroes...

Paige Hathaway: Oh, I've heard...

Nick: I met my hero at an expo, and he just totally dissed me. And it just...

Nick: He was like, "I met one of my heroes and I just had the most terrible experience."

Paige Hathaway: No way!

Nick: But then he met Greg Plitt and he's like, Greg Plitt saw... you know, a lot of people say it about Greg Plitt.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. No Chady's amazing. And we're friends now actually. So it's kind of cool, you know?

Heather: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. Did you have an idea of, alright, when I get this big, this is how I'm going to treat people? At that point?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. You know, I've never lost that mentality because I remember... Like, for Chady, for example, she commented back to me on Instagram like a long time ago and I remember the way it made me feel, made my day.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: And so, now I always try to comment back to people because I know...

Nick: I'm surprised that... you do. You wade into the comments and really just touch each person a little bit.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. Just because I know what it feels like to have that... Even if it's just a flex emoji.

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: You know what I mean?

Nick: Yeah, totally.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: But the difference, I guess, between Instagram and the magazine is you don't have to deal with the hater as well.

Paige Hathaway: Right. That is so true. That is so true. You know it's kind of crazy. I used to, when I first got into fitness, because muscle on female wasn't like a socially acceptable thing. I used to get so much more hate then, because they would be like, "Why do you look like that? You don't look feminine. You don't look like a woman.", you know what I mean?

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: But now, I feel like there's way less hate.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: I actually posted a photo about a year ago. I took one of a box. I got pretty lean and shredded and I took a side photo where I was... I looked pretty yoked.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: And I was actually so scared to post it because I was thinking, "How are people going to take this?" But the picture just went viral. I mean, the Kardashians even re-posted it, saying like, "Is this too much?"

Nick: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: I mean at that point, good publicity is... any publicity is good publicity.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: But I was actually so scared to post that just because I didn't know if I was going to get hate for that. Then I was thinking, "Why am I even worried about this?"

Nick: There's a level of exposure that you have now, that it's pretty severe.

Heather: Totally, yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Right, yeah.

Nick: I imagine you have to be comfortable with it in order to be posting it much as, sharing as much as you do, but were there times you were just up at night like, "I can't believe how many people are looking at me?"

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. Well when I posted that photo, I did get... because I usually don't get... maybe every now and then they'll be something. Obviously, you can't please everyone. But with that photo I did get a lot of, "Oh, my gosh that's too much, why would she do that?" And then I'm kind of... I'm like, "Okay. Wait, stop. Catch yourself."

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: The comments don't matter. I'm human. No one likes to read stuff like that about themselves. It's just how it is. But I just have to catch myself and be like, "Would they say that to your face? Probably not."

Heather: Probably not. People are much braver behind the keyboard.

Paige Hathaway: Yes. Definitely.

Nick: Okay, so let's talk about your story a little bit more. You're still in Oklahoma at this point. But you're trying hard. At what point did you say like, "Alright. Not only is there something here, I need to have squad. I need to be carrying around a camera all the time. I really need to go next level into this."

Paige Hathaway: It took about a year. So, I was doing... I was still personal training in Oklahoma. I was doing that, too. Personal training and just really trying to... I was trying everything to make it work. I literally went to the drawing board and wrote down everything I could possibly do to go get my name out there whether it be Bodybuilding.com spokesperson, if it were shows, if it were going to expos and passing out my cards.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: Which I did at Olympia. I just tried everything I could.

Nick: But were still training on the side.

Paige Hathaway: Yep. Training on the side and then I was starting my online business as well so that was sort of taking off. And then I was just doing tons of free stuff as I could. I'd reach out to magazines like, "Could I write an article for you?"

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: I was just doing... I was becoming like a yes man for a good cause.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: If I could do something and it was going to benefit my name or my career or something I wanted to do, I was all in. I don't care if it was for free. I mean, I still do stuff for free.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: You know what I mean? It's just the name of the game.

Nick: Right. It's hard for people to wrap their brain around that, though.

Paige Hathaway: It is hard.

Nick: You have to give a lot away, sometimes.

Paige Hathaway: Yes. I try to explain that to people when they ask me about business. People just want to assume that you're going to make beaucoups of money up front.

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: But it took so long even to make living off of it. So, yeah, I just tried everything I could. It took me a year before it actually started taking off.

Nick: Hmm. Is that when you started think about, like, "Alright, I'm going to start staging fitness challenges or anything like that?" Like, that's such an interesting...

Heather: Yeah, I'm...

Nick: ...component of what you do now.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, so then I started becoming extremely busy.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: So, then after that year, I couldn't personal train anymore. So I was like, "Well, how can I still train, but not be in person?" That's when I started training online completely 100%... But then through online training, I realized my clients were... it was hard for them to stay accountable.

Nick: Sure.

Paige Hathaway: Because they're not coming to see me, you know, you're got going into a trainer and the trainer's all looking at you like, "Did you cheat on your diet?" You know what I mean? And you're like, "Yes." You know, over the computer, it's just more difficult to stay on track. So, that's why I had the idea to do the challenges and that's how it all began.

Nick: Challenges are ... They're interesting.

Heather: They're interesting. Yeah.

Nick: And yours are ... There's good prize money.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: And yeah, it's a different sort of culture, like we do a ton of challenges around here.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: I don't know, what is it about that, about the five-week timeframe you like, and what is it about that challenge? Was that something you ever did before?

Heather: Yeah, where did the five weeks come from?

Paige Hathaway: Well, I did do like a month challenge for quite some time and I just felt like I needed to do another week 'cause like I felt like people needed that little bit extra time to kind of get mentally prepared in the first week. The first week is the toughest.

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: You know, especially if someone's not used to living a healthy lifestyle. Their first week is really hard, so I was like, I feel like I needed to add an extra week, so then it was five weeks, and then, I don't know, Fit in Five just kind of sounded good, so I kind of rolled with it, and it kind of worked, and now it's that what it is what it is, and then I gave out $5,000, and so it kind of just kind of has a... you know.

Heather: Yeah, you usually see like four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, so it's like, oh, it's different.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, it's different, you know? And a lot can happen in five weeks, and especially when you give out prize money, and people are so like focused on staying on their diet. When they achieve those results in five weeks they're like, "Wow, I did this in 5 weeks. Imagine what I could do in like five months."

Nick: Right. Yeah, yeah.

Paige Hathaway: You know what I mean?

Nick: There's interesting research into financial motivation.

Paige Hathaway: Yes!

Nick: It's so easy to fixate on health. What is health?

Paige Hathaway: Right.

Nick: Appearance, once you get to a certain level of leanness you realize your appearance changes every damn day.

Nick: How big do you... How many people are involved in your challenges?

Paige Hathaway: About 250. I cap it at 250 people every five weeks.

Heather: Okay.

Paige Hathaway: Just because I wanna give everyone, you know what I mean, like, good help...

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: ...throughout the five weeks, and if I feel like if I did any more might sacrifice, what they get. So I just cap it every time.

Nick: What sort of a variety of people do you... Is it just completely surprising to you?

Paige Hathaway: It's compl-

Nick: It's not just people who are like, "I want to look like Paige."

Paige Hathaway: No, no, it's a variety of people. It's so neat, and a lot of the times I'll get people that do like, two or three challenges at a time, and their transformation over that time is like, a completely different person. It's so cool.

Nick: Interesting.

Paige Hathaway: My favorite thing when I have those people on the challenge, and then now they have their kids in karate. It's like really trickled down to all the way throughout their kids and stuff.

Heather: Yeah, it can have ripples where it's like, maybe their spouse is getting in shape, their mom is getting in shape...

Paige Hathaway: I love...

Nick: It's just that discipline that you talked about too just start like... You cannot do something like that and not be disciplined.

Paige Hathaway: Right.

Nick: All of a sudden, yeah, those priorities start to get...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, or like, you know how I was talking about like how it's affected even like my business, how... and I'll hear those stories too, like just entering your challenge has helped me be more determined, and mindful, and now like I started this business, or like, you know what I mean?

So, I don't know, health and fitness just has a huge role on not only your health and fitness, but it can change your life completely.

Nick: Sure, sure.

Heather: Oh, yeah.

Nick: Yeah, but social media is weird though too just because, especially on Instagram. It always does come back to how you look a little bit. Like, Instagram, more than Facebook, more than YouTube, kind of has its own priorities...

Paige Hathaway: It does.

Nick: ... has its own aesthetics.

Paige Hathaway: It does.

Nick: You're one of the setters of that aesthetic...

Paige Hathaway: I know, you know...

Nick: There's a certain sort of, YouTube, muscle woman body right now, right? Did you find that you clicked with that initially... or, I don't know, I'm trying to figure out the Instagram body is.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, so, you know, I did help set that trend, but now that I've done it for... I mean, I've done now Instagram for like five years, like full-time, as like a career type of thing, but now that I'm 30, and I don't say I'm getting away from weight lifting 'cause I'm not. Because I still weight lift every day, but now I've moved more into like functional training, and it has changed my body so much.

I mean, obviously, I still look fine, but weightlifting and functional training are completely different of the aspect of what's gonna have your body look like, right? Weightlifting is you're targeting muscle groups.

Heather: Right.

Paige Hathaway: Right? You're going in working your glutes. You're going in working your shoulders. Functional training is more... I do like more full-body, functional training, so it has changed...

Nick: Full-body training!

Paige Hathaway: Oh, yeah! I know!

Nick: The scandal!

Paige Hathaway: I know, right. It's like aah, but it feels so much better. I just feel so much better, so now that I've gotten older, I've just really incorporated more functional training because I just like the way it makes me feel...

Nick: Sure.

Paige Hathaway: ... but it's not as, I guess, like aesthetically, like... You know what I'm trying to say?

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Like for Instagram, like or whatever...

Nick: They can go together, though.

Heather: They can go together. With functional training, you have to really try hard to get every single muscle group...

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Heather: ... and with aesthetic training, where you're targeting each muscle group...

Nick: Flyes are perfectly fine. But functional training means a lot of things to a lot of people, though.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: When you say that, what do you mean?

Paige Hathaway: Well, I've just been doing more functional movements. I've been doing more like, I guess more... Have you heard of F45? I just started to be the face of the company about a year ago, and I just fell in love with, through that, with functional training, and it just like functional. It's not like going into the gym, and like, deadlifting your heaviest weight, it's more functional movements. You know what I mean?

Nick: Okay, so different planes, more rotation...

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Nick: ...more movement.

Paige Hathaway: Exactly.

Nick: Okay, huh, interesting.

Paige Hathaway: Have you ever done it?

Nick: I haven't done F45.

Paige Hathaway: But functional training.

Heather: Yeah.

Nick: That's more or less what I do.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah!

Nick: I may be the host of The Bodybuilding.com Podcast, but I've never been good at that style of training! It just, like, why would I want to go in and dedicate an entire day to one thing, and making it hurt the next day. That's never made sense to me.

Nick: What do I want to do? I wanna play with my kids. I wanna go rock climbing. I wanna go for a run. That's what I want to do!

Paige Hathaway: Exactly!

Heather: This building is full of like, rock climbers, and, you know, endurance athletes, and all kinds of... It's not just a bunch of bodybuilders.

Paige Hathaway: Oh! Who knew?

Nick: I occasionally have a kettlebell in the baby seat.

Heather: He's a kettlebell aficionado. That's his thing.

Nick: So, if you followed me on Instagram you'd know that, but you don't follow me on Instagram.

Paige Hathaway: Uh-oh.

Nick: Speaking of Instagram, though, I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram because it's so fucking perfect.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: We have filters, Nick.

Nick: Like, Facebook is where people go to complain about stuff.

Paige Hathaway: Beep! Yes.

Nick: Instagram is where you go to be perfect.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I like that.

Nick: And it's a little exhausting sometimes, you know?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I like that analogy.

Nick: Like once a month, I quit Instagram I'm like, "I can't handle you, Instagram," and then I crave it, and I want it back.

Heather: Everybody's so perfect here.

Paige Hathaway: Break up, then you get back together.

Nick: Exactly. Do you find you have a love-hate relationship with any of this, or, that you're like, you know, "I spend too much time on you, I gotta give you up for day," or something like that?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, you know, I used to really care about it, but now I don't as much. It sounds really bad to say.

Nick: You're accepting. That's great, it's your livelihood, right?

Heather: I get it. I think it's funny that it's so perfect 'cause you know it's not.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, but now the thing on Instagram, is like showing like how unperfect...

Nick: Oh, I know.

Paige Hathaway: ... unperfect things are.

Nick: But even the unperfect is perfect.

Paige Hathaway: I know, exactly!

Nick: "I'm so perfectly unperfect." You know?

Heather: I always see the ones with like, "Here's with the filter. Here's without." I'm like, I can't...

Paige Hathaway: That's so true. That is so true. You know, I mean, yeah.

Nick: But you're accepting, like well... Instagram's also like a super time warp. That's the other thing. Like, you could be like, and then you look up, and it's been five hours.

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Nick: Do you do that?

Paige Hathaway: I used to, but I don't really spend that much... I mean, this is what I do, like I'll post. I'll spend amount of time like commenting back to people 'cause it's important to me.

Nick: Sure.

Paige Hathaway: I don't really check DMs unless I have like a, you know, Fit in Five, or something going on, but I don't really spend that much time on it. You know, a lot of people when they hang out with me, you know, I am that person that like, I'm present.

Nick: Oh, that's great.

Paige Hathaway: And they'll even say like, "I'm actually shocked you weren't like on your phone." They'll be on their phone more than me.

Heather: Right.

Paige Hathaway: You know, but...

Nick: Is that... Okay, I like that. Is that something you really intentionally do, or have you had periods where it's like it's a skill you had to learn?

Paige Hathaway: No, I intentionally do it. I have probably 220 unread messages, and that is because when I'm with people, which I am always with people, usually, I'm present, and so then people get mad at me like, "You didn't text me back." And like, it's because like, you know what I mean? I just want to be present when I'm with people.

Heather: Play with the friends that are here.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah! So, yeah.

Nick: When you go to sleep, phone out of the room, all that sort of stuff?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I just, I turn it on sleep mode or night mode, and yeah.

Nick: I'm not available. I like this.

Paige Hathaway: Actually...

Heather: Most of my earliest mentors say... do not have the phone around them on the weekends.

Nick: Yeah.

Heather: I love it.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, it's good.

Heather: People get mad at me too, and I'm like, oh, I don't even know where my phone is.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, if you ask anyone, I'm a terrible texter. Terrible, but it's because I'm not on my phone, so I'm like, "Sorry, I'm so..." And then I'll see them. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I didn't text you back." You know what I mean, 'cause then, yeah, so.

Nick: But, I mean...

Paige Hathaway: Being present is important.

Nick: ... it's social media's ravenous beasts, right?

Heather: Gotta feed it. Yep.

Nick: They want as much of you as they can possibly get, right?

Paige Hathaway: It's a trap.

Nick: Well, but they also, like, it's totally up to you to decide...

Paige Hathaway: Exactly.

Nick: ... how much am I gonna share, how much am I gonna let you in. We had a woman named Cassandra Martin on the podcast who has well over like two million followers. She doesn't post a word. It's her working out...

Heather: Just pictures. Just her, flexing...

Nick: Yeah, and so I asked her like, "Why?" And she's like, "Man, I don't really feel like I have that much to say. You're here, you want to see me work out, that's great. That's inspiration. I don't need to say anything."

Paige Hathaway: Wow!

Nick: You share a little bit more than that, like, how do you find that line?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I like to... I started really writing on Instagram, like when I first started writing, like posting like motivational photos, writing yeah. I would write like motivational captions, and that, 'cause it just really helped me connect to the audience to be like... To really talk about real-life crap, you know, like you're going through. Everyone's been through hardship, and trials and tribulations, and how you can use that for like fuel to get where you are today.

It's why I really love to write on my photos because it really helps connect with the audience, so I actually like it.

Nick: That makes sense, yeah.

Paige Hathaway: It's therapeutic to me, too.

Nick: It's something I tell people all the time like, everybody has to be a writer now.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Once upon a time, you didn't say, "Oh, I'm a writer. I'm a this, I'm a that." But, everybody's a writer.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. Right.

Nick: Yeah. Was that hard for you? Did you like, "All I have to get... this is too much. This is... I'm sharing too much," or do you have to practice that skill, too?

Paige Hathaway: No, it's so strange. I just... I'll write it, or I'll just think of something on a day that I don't have a post, and I'll write it in my notes 'cause I'll be feeling something, or, you know what I mean, or maybe my friend's going through something, and I'll write about it, and I'll just write about it in my notes, and then I'm like... Sometimes, I'll just gravitate towards like posting this, and then it's kind of weird because then I'll have like so many people be like, "Oh, my gosh, like, I'm going through this right now." "Oh, my gosh, I can really relate to that."

So, I don't know, I just kind of let like the universe kind of like "okay, post this today." I throw like, you know what I mean? Someone like needs to hear this. It's so strange, but that's kind of how I do it.

Nick: No, that makes sense. So, you say you kind of have a little notebook or something you kind of keep your thoughts in.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah. Yep.

Nick: I like that. That's the first draft, and the second draft will be on the phone.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: Yeah, you consider it for a couple of days, and then decide if, you know, it's something that needs to go out, or...

Nick: But you also do a little more long-form stuff on YouTube like where it's 10, 15 minutes, even... more personal, also, workout videos. Am I wrong with this, or were you gone from YouTube for a while?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I stopped YouTube for a little while. It's just so hard to keep up with everything. There's YouTube, there's Facebook, there's Twitter, Instagram, website stuff, all your sponsor... There's just like a list of things. I was like, "I don't really, you know, I'm gonna put YouTube on pause." But then, I had so many requests to go back on it, so I just started it like a month ago.

Nick: Okay.

Heather: And you're excited?

Paige Hathaway: No, I love it, actually. I'm actually... It's one of the products right now that I'm excited to work on again because you get to really connect with your audience on a more personal level. As we were saying, Instagram is like this perfect world. Where like on YouTube, I can just make a video like, "Hey, guys. I just woke up, and now I have no makeup on, and this is what it is." Where Instagram, it's like, "ahh."

Nick: Yeah, for that moment...

Heather: You would break Instagram if you do a no makeup one. Unless you do #nomakeup.

Paige Hathaway: Right?

Heather: And then it's okay.

Paige Hathaway: Exactly.

Nick: Okay. No, I like this, so it's for that person who just wants that next level of access, or next level of detail, but also wants to see a real workout.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, or wants to get more personal because like you can't really... Writing a caption is cool and posting a photo is cool on Instagram, but you can only connect with someone so much, so I really want people to just know my personality, and that's on YouTube.

Heather: Yeah, there is a difference when you're actually speaking...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: And eating, and doing stuff like that.

Paige Hathaway: Exactly.

Nick: Sitting around drinking protein shakes a million times. I saw that one the other day. So, speaking of food and things, you are pescatarian.

Paige Hathaway: That's correct.

Nick: Right? So, this was a journey to get to this point.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: We hear from more and more people these days. They're like just stepping slowly away from meat.

Paige Hathaway: I've been doing it for over a year now, and I, being from Oklahoma, I've never, ever in a million years would have thought I would be pescatarian. I mean, I'm from the cattle...

Nick: Right, exactly.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: ...capital. You know, like...

Nick: They don't have fish in that state, I don't think. Not even a fish. Fish is a kind of cow.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, my whole family thinks I'm crazy. But I... This is probably TMI, but as long as I can remember, I've had digestion issues. Now that I'm older, and I moved into the functional training, and I'm just being more health conscious with everything that I'm doing, I was like, "I wonder how I can fix this naturally?" Because I've had it since high school. And a lot of the things said red meat or processed meats...

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: So, I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to cut out meat all together for a month." So, I didn't eat fish at all either for an entire month, and I just ... I couldn't do it. I was like, "Okay, this is way too tough."

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: Maybe, it's because I went cold turkey.

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nick: No cold turkey. No, cold turkey is not allowed.

Heather: Pitiful.

Nick: That was too easy, come on. I can't get...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, no turkey. But I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. I was like, "Okay, how can I not do red meat and processed meat?" So, I just did fish, and I did it. That was like, fits into my lifestyle, and it worked, and I just haven't went back to meat since then.

Nick: During that month, were you still trying, prioritizing protein like a good fitness model should, or what...

Paige Hathaway: I was trying my best. But, man, I don't know, vegan, I don't know how they do it.

Nick: It's tough.

Paige Hathaway: That's tough, right?

Nick: A lot of bean burritos.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: Yep, lots and lots of cans of beans.

Paige Hathaway: That's what I was eating every single day, bean burritos.

Heather: Yup. I do six days a week vegan, and it's a pain. That seventh day...

Paige Hathaway: You do?

Heather: ... is great.

Nick: Yup.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Oh, wow.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: The last day ...

Heather: On the seventh day, I'll have eggs, because-

Paige Hathaway: Oh, wow.

Heather: ... I just miss eggs.

Paige Hathaway: Oh, right, right, right. See that's the thing, too. I was pescatarian, and I didn't do eggs. I missed it so much, because the only thing I was eating for breakfast like smoked salmon.

Heather: Yeah, it gets kind of tiresome, but it is ... It's a lot of beans, lentils, rice, things like that.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, girl, I give you props.

Heather: But then you just switch over, and you're right on the digestive thing.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Heather: People don't believe me, I'm like, "Just try it."

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Heather: You got to get through that first week.

Paige Hathaway: Yup.

Nick: See, people say bean burritos, their digestion... I mean...

Heather: You got to get through that first week, and then you...

Nick: I guess, it's not up to you.

Heather: ... feel so healthy.

Nick: You have to...

Heather: Now we know...

Nick: ... ask the people who hang out with you what you should be eating. But I'm a big fan of bean burritos, I will say. Bean burrito is the perfect food in my opinion. I'm someone...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, it is.

Nick: I like meat. I love eggs.

Heather: Yeah.

Nick: I love bean burritos. They're just the best. You still eat bean burritos?

Paige Hathaway: I do.

Nick: Let's talk bean burritos a little bit. What's...

Paige Hathaway: I love...

Nick: ... your favorite...

Paige Hathaway: ... a bean burrito.

Nick: ... bean burrito?

Heather: Yes.

Paige Hathaway: There's a brand called Amy's. Have you heard of it?

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh yeah, those are good.

Heather: Yes.

Nick: Sure.

Paige Hathaway: They have good bean burritos.

Nick: You have to bake them forever though, bake them for like 45 minutes.

Paige Hathaway: You do?

Nick: Or do you just stick it in the microwave?

Paige Hathaway: I mean ...

Nick: Okay, well, we don't need to get into that.

Paige Hathaway: Then we'll get the people that are like, "You shouldn't microwave your food."

Nick: Right.

Heather: We'll get all comments that this is how you should cook Amy's bean burrito. Never mind the rest of the stuff that we talked about.

Nick: The nice thing about bean burritos, too though, is anywhere you are in the world, Oklahoma, Boise, you're never that far from a bean burrito.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: You can go to a place that you're like, "I would never eat the meat in this dump," and you can get a bean burrito.

Paige Hathaway: There are a lot of cupcake places. I'm like, "How is this even possible?"

Heather: Yeah, it's insane, isn't it?

Nick: Yeah, interesting. So, as you've transitioned toward pescatarianism, what about protein shakes? How has your thinking on that sort of thing changed? Does that feel necessary to you when you're a more selective meat eater?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah-

Nick: ... or is it something that you're like a little...

Paige Hathaway: ... I try my best to get in whole meals.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: But I travel so much that it is really hard to eat five whole meals.

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: It's inevitable to have a protein shake, but I just do vegan, pea.

Nick: Okay.

Paige Hathaway: Pea protein.

Heather: Yeah.

Nick: This is ... I'm a big fan of the veggie protein shake, I have to say. I've been coming around a long time.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Okay. Were you into those before, or is that something that you've also landed on eventually?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I used to just do whey. But now, I don't do whey, because I'm a pescatarian.

Paige Hathaway: Well, I've conquered just chocolate and vanilla so far. Just because I want it to be phenomenal in water.

Heather: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Paige Hathaway: I want you to just be able to mix it in water, and it tastes good. I've conquered that. And now I'm trying to... Now I see where it is tricky, where vegan proteins are having a little bit harder time having flavors and staying natural and stuff like that. Now that I'm doing it. I'm like, "Okay, now it makes sense of why I can't really find... " You know what I mean? The ones that taste like cereal. The wheys that taste like Lucky Charms.

Heather: Right.

Paige Hathaway: You know what I mean?

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: It makes sense now.

Nick: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: I get it. I'm still making it perfect.

Nick: Sure.

Heather: Okay.

Nick: Once it's your business, too, everything is like, "All right, how much am I going to dedicate to this?" It's all out of your bottom line...

Paige Hathaway: Exactly.

Nick: ... after a certain point. It's a big question, but I was wanting to ask you, how has your rise into popularity changed how you view what you want to achieve, your life, your legacy, stuff like that? You were over here, now you're up here. Do you look around you like, "My dreams are so much bigger now than they used to be"?

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I always have to pinch myself, because I'm like this is ... I can't believe the life that I have.

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: I'll get emotional talking about it.

Nick: It's powerful.

Paige Hathaway: Because it's crazy to me that I've done what I've done. Yeah, obviously I want to keep growing and expanding my brand. Now I do want to build ... It's cool that I've built the name that I have, but now what?

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: Because my dream was to do what I've done. Now it's easy to just work on that dream and maintain it, but how do I rise above and become more than I am now. I think that is building brands.

I really want to get into more ... I really want to help girls that want to do what I'm doing. I'm trying to find avenues with that, because so many girls now want to do what I've done. I want to help them, and so there's ... I don't know. There's just so many things now that I do want to do, because I have the platform to do it.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heather: Well, that...

Nick: Yeah.

Heather: ... ties into a question that I like to ask, which is if you could go back and talk to yourself when you were first starting out, what's the number one lesson that you've learned that you wish you knew then?

Nick: Pea protein, pea protein.

Paige Hathaway: I think the number one thing is going through this journey and even meeting so many people, so many people give up too soon. Like I said before, it took me an entire year to even be able to pay my bills with doing what I'm doing. But I didn't give up. Because I wanted it so bad.

I always tell people just if you're doing something, if you're trying to achieve a dream or start a business or whatever it is that you're wanting to do, don't give up so soon. If something doesn't work out, you need to try something else.

Because I tried out for Bodybuilding.com, I didn't get it. You know what I mean?

Nick: Right.

Paige Hathaway: I tried out for so many things. I didn't get it. I did shows. Yeah, I got second on the first one. But, after that, I almost got a last on the second one and on the third one, but I didn't give up. You know what I mean? I tried something else. I just feel like so many people give up too soon.

Just like when you're driving somewhere, you put into Waze your destination. There are so many ways to get there, just like with your goals. There are so many different ways and routes to achieve that, so just don't give up.

Because if you have this ... If you feel like you're supposed to be there, if you have this feeling inside of you ... I just, I don't know, I had this feeling, this fire. There's something inside of you that wants it, it's supposed to happen for you. Whether it takes 10 tries or a hundred, just keep going, and it will happen. Just don't give up.

Nick: No, I like that, and it sounds ... That's something that speaks very well to somebody going to the gym and training, too.

Heather: Yup.

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Nick: It's not something that five weeks is going to be enough...

Paige Hathaway: Right, no.

Nick: ... for your lifetime. You have to do five weeks...

Heather: Yup.

Nick: ... five weeks...

Paige Hathaway: Yes.

Nick: ... five weeks...

Heather: You do constantly...

Nick: ... five weeks.

Heather: ... have to set your goals.

Paige Hathaway: Yes, exactly. Yeah, so I think that's the best piece of advice for anyone. Yeah, whether fitness goals whether it's anything in life. Just keep going and don't give up, and it will happen for you.

Nick: What else do you have coming up over the horizon...

Paige Hathaway: Oh, my gosh.

Nick: ... that people should know about?

Paige Hathaway: Well, I do have the supplement line coming up which I'm so excited about.

Nick: What's the timeline on that?

Paige Hathaway: I just announced it, too. As you know, things...

Nick: Of course.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Podcasts...

Paige Hathaway: Yeah.

Nick: Everything ... The deadlines on everything.

Heather: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: Yeah, I'm hoping in two months. I just finalized on what the brand's going to look like and the packaging and stuff like that, so it's really cool. I'm really excited. It's been a really awesome process to build something like that, because I've never done it, so I've learned so much.

Nick: Yeah.

Paige Hathaway: I have that, but I have a lot of projects that I'm ... I can't really talk about yet.

Nick: Okay.

Heather: But...

Nick: They're evil kind of projects?

Paige Hathaway: I don't want to jinx them either, so I don't want to put them out there and not happen, but yeah, I have a lot of good stuff coming up, so stay tuned.

Nick: Okay, where should we stay tuned? What's the ... Where should we...

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