Although I only have records from three interviews with Justin, I've also heard anecdotal evidence from sources of varying degrees of merit. My understanding is he told more of the truth to LE at the beginning. Not that morning, when first asked by Shaver (he insisted he'd slept through) but later.

It's a certainty he was threatened by the killers, which is more than disgusting when the killers include your worthless mom and asshat step-daddy. I'd love to read every transcript- scratch that- HEAR every recorded interview he's done. Again, my understanding is he said more near the beginning, but whatever scare mom and dad put into him was eventually reinforced by LE. I'd like to see what he said and line it up with WHO he said it to. For instance, did he have any clue how tight Marty and mom and the sheriff were? How many times did Crimely turn the recorder off when talking to him?

PS- Loon isn't the only one to state the Justin & Casey recreation story. I know Bo recited the same story, and Marty did talk about it, explaining how he wouldn't let Justin go back to the Seabolts so he hung around outside at the corner.

dmac wrote:Although I only have records from three interviews with Justin, I've also heard anecdotal evidence from sources of varying degrees of merit. My understanding is he told more of the truth to LE at the beginning. Not that morning, when first asked by Shaver (he insisted he'd slept through) but later.

It's a certainty he was threatened by the killers, which is more than disgusting when the killers include your worthless mom and asshat step-daddy. I'd love to read every transcript- scratch that- HEAR every recorded interview he's done. Again, my understanding is he said more near the beginning, but whatever scare mom and dad put into him was eventually reinforced by LE. I'd like to see what he said and line it up with WHO he said it to. For instance, did he have any clue how tight Marty and mom and the sheriff were? How many times did Crimely turn the recorder off when talking to him?

PS- Loon isn't the only one to state the Justin & Casey recreation story. I know Bo recited the same story, and Marty did talk about it, explaining how he wouldn't let Justin go back to the Seabolts so he hung around outside at the corner.

I'm so with you on HEARING the recorded interviews of ALL involved. Read the transcripts and the actual transcripts (recordings you listened to) concerning MB and I thought it was proven via timeline(s) they could not have been present when/if the Justin/Casey 101 acting session took place? Was it part of Loonibi? Got damn I just don't know how ya do it...keeping it all straight.

One sad story is I've talked with a person at the bar that night. The identity is currently of little importance. Saw Uncle Don at a table, and did not see two bitches with one Ho. It confirms, independently, Don was not PAYING that night. It also CONFIRMS he was there, and left to see if his sis was up. It was a birthday or some other, Don and wife were guests.

Facts match up, folks.

We looked hard at Don, at everybody. Don "drove around" because the fucking house was on a loop.

Good to know Don was not lying. You're right about scrutinizing family members--start with those closest to the victims and take it from there. I've wondered how many times he had those "what if" moments of guilt...you know, 'what if I went to Sue's that night I could have prevented the murders'. Poor guy.

'Ol Dee and Tony G best practice holding soap without dropping it. Nothing mythical about what's creeping up behind those two!Oh. Look. A cannoli! Said no inmate ever.

Give some massive PTSD love to Sheila. The biggest "what if" in the entire case is the killers were after Sue and had no fucking clue Tina was home. It was supposed to be Sheila in that bed that night.

Sheila's level of grief is exponential: the loss of family, her guilt at not being there FOR Tina AS Tina. Sheila should be dead, not Tina. Hell the fuck O.

I may seem hostile to Sheila, since she's such a bad liar. I take lying and liars VERY heavily in my day-to-day life, and this case is filled with the worthless bastards. As such, my anger at Sheila stems from her stupid and worthless, lazy lies. They seem geared around keeping family secrets in a closet all, unfortunately, must explore if intent on justice.

What I've always failed to grasp is her position. Not the lying, we've covered that. Sheila and Greg and Rick all have PTSD. So does Justin, as much a victim on 4/12 as the rest. Sheila is a hostile witness according to merit, as is almost everyone else. Justin is a nazi zero on my scale, as he not only knows but was forced to participate ,in my considered opinion. That he's only sorry Mom is in the mix dispels all concerns for sympathy. MOM IS A CUNT. Stockholm syndrome? 'No, appalling fucking joke syndrome. FUCK YOU JUSTIN

I'm not whatsoever sorry I've said some truths about Sheila, as I have a low opinion of liars. This case is about "exposing the truth, one liar at a time" after all. As such, I'm only sorry I don't know better how to deal with her as the deepest victim she is, which is not in question. her exponential victimhood has to do with the guilt of Tina taking her place. That makes her victimhood so f-ing bizarre, even compared to the boys who hid in the closet and heard it all.

The vulgar nature of these crimes extend upon living victims. Even Zonita shined unnatural smiles when finally relenting and discussing the case on-camera. She grins when saying she was too judgmental, that things were NOT kosher at 28. It's her discomfort causing the break. She's very unhappy talking about any of this, even when saying she was "too judgmental" when she actually had solid grounds never to trust Sue to be a parent figure. "Her kids were welcome here". Hell the fuck O

dmac wrote:Give some massive PTSD love to Sheila. The biggest "what if" in the entire case is the killers were after Sue and had no fucking clue Tina was home. It was supposed to be Sheila in that bed that night.

Sheila's level of grief is exponential: the loss of family, her guilt at not being there FOR Tina AS Tina. Sheila should be dead, not Tina. Hell the fuck O.

I may seem hostile to Sheila, since she's such a bad liar. I take lying and liars VERY heavily in my day-to-day life, and this case is filled with the worthless bastards. As such, my anger at Sheila stems from her stupid and worthless, lazy lies. They seem geared around keeping family secrets in a closet all, unfortunately, must explore if intent on justice.

What I've always failed to grasp is her position. Not the lying, we've covered that. Sheila and Greg and Rick all have PTSD.

I've had regret over posting a questionable response about something Sheila stated. The regret I felt wasn't immediate but gradual as I learned more of this case and more empathy towards her began to evolve. There is no way I can ever imagine what she has gone through. The 'what if's' are no doubt endless for her and her brothers. I can see where she would be protective of her family; the memories of her siblings and mother to be honored always. Some people are different in how they handle tragedies, crime, etc. This family has had their share that is for sure. As compassionate as I feel for them, I still agree with you on the finer point you make. Every single avenue must be looked into, even if it makes survivors uncomfortable. There should not be anything to hide or lie about when the bottom line is justice for those who were murdered.

I bounce back and forth. I feel empathy and sympathy for what she's been through, and have some regrets about a few of the things I've said about her, but the fact is I don't have much of anything but disdain for how she treated most members of this forum. Other forums, particularly cabin28.com's, treated her like shit because the admin wanted abusive trolls- he is a child molester, after all, and a fan of the KILLERS. Her problem with us is solely because we, quite rightfully, called her out for being deceptive and willfully dishonest to us when answering simple questions related to the case. It's disturbing, to say the least, she has more issues with us- who actually figured out the truth- than those on another board whose sole purpose (as per the perv who ran it) was to further insult the victims and her.

She came to us, begging for help in finding the truth behind the murders, then proceeded to ignore or lie in her responses to a wide range of questions posed, from the mundane to those concerning skeletons in the family closet. Read her posts and, more importantly, the posts that led to her replies. If you know the case, you'll recognize her failures- and they were more calculated than accidental.

She and her baboon hubby du jour chose, as adults, to make that scene- and they fucked themselves when they chose to go head-to-head against me and others who, in the course of a chat I'd meant to delete, discussed Sheila's distancing herself from answering questions, and her lying about the most basic shit. All I'd said in chat is "She hasn't been truthful", which struck the people I was chatting with as the first time I'd stated such. I could no longer defend Sheila's stories as truthful, as they clearly aren't. They were surprised, and said, "say whaaa...?!", and I repeated, "Sheila hasn't been truthful for a long time."

I meant to delete that chat, as we were just discussing many things in the case, hashing over many aspects and angles, which is how we worked the case together for so long: we'd meet in the chat room, discuss ideas in real time, then I'd delete the chat history. That night I forgot to delete it, someone I know read it and squealed to Sheila that 'dmac finally broke ranks and admitted Sheila has been lying', and Sheila and Baboon du Jour chose to make a mountain out of far less than a molehill: a semi-private admittance of the truth: Sheila was not truthfully answering our Qs and was certainly not helping our investigation. That mountain landslid right on top of them. I have absolutely no regrets about standing up to the horseshit they tried to dish out.

They chose to call me out as a liar for admitting Sheila was far less than truthful about the very basics of the case. They chose to fuck up, right out in front of everyone. That must still sting.

Certainly, her actions have been defensive. They've also been futile, because we've learned much of the truth she's been so actively hiding. And, as expected, what she's been hiding does have great impact in understanding behaviors, reactions, and motives behind the actual crimes. What most bothers me about Sheila is she's been so disrespectful to all she begged for help.

Justin's been lying- and very badly- in order to protect others (mainly a prime killer, MARILOON). He's gone public so many times trying to tease or exploit, so he's signed on for being fair game for disrespect, mockery, vilification. Rick, to my knowledge, has never spoken publicly about what he saw, what he remembers. We get a rare glimpse/taste of it via the 3-part walk-through of 28, in which he relates no personal memories of that night. Does he have memories? Greg was five and likely the most traumatized by that evening and its aftermath. As I've said, genuine PTSD (and major lack of trust in the authority figures who further victimized them) is also reasonably a major factor in their lack of public interest in the case.

However, Sheila actively sought attention, support, help. She also chose to be distant, to cloud her responses in false ambiguity. She also chose to outright lie, with no middle ground for misinterpretation. Her undoing is the result of her own actions. She and her primate husband went down in flames on Josh's forum, then the hubby wrote a book using the results of all our work while, in the same breath, calling us trolls, losers, etc.

A significant contingency of crime investigators equate feeling empathy for victims as tantamount to sacrificing ones duty to finding the truth. One must be brutally inquisitive with everyone, feelings be damned, when seeking the bottom line. While I understand the motives, I believe one can be tactful and treat delicate matters (such as family skeletons... Sue's boyfriends, abuse, incest, etc) well, delicately. It's the approach I've tried (and often failed) to maintain.

dmac wrote:I meant to delete that chat, as we were just discussing many things in the case, hashing over many aspects and angles, which is how we worked the case together for so long: we'd meet in the chat room, discuss ideas in real time, then I'd delete the chat history. That night I forgot to delete it, someone I know read it and squealed to Sheila that 'dmac finally broke ranks and admitted Sheila has been lying', and Sheila and Baboon du Jour chose to make a mountain out of far less than a molehill: a semi-private admittance of the truth: Sheila was not truthfully answering our Qs and was certainly not helping our investigation. That mountain landslid right on top of them. I have absolutely no regrets about standing up to the horseshit they tried to dish out.

.

The "squealing" came AFTER Sheila saw the chat, a full day before I saw it.

She saw it on a Sunday, a day in which I had no access to any computer. I saw it on a Monday, when I could get to a computer.

I remembered this as being on a Monday when I saw the chat. I know you didn't call me out here, but I think most of the forum knew who you were talking about due to a post in 2015. Since I can't find it, you must have deleted it.