Knights of Columbus creepy ceremony

Wow, it's amazing the amount of experts we have here who don't have any firsthand knowledge, yet definetly accuse others of various things with a
certaintiy of "because I said so". Why don't you become a Catholic and join the K of C before you start with your diatribes. Thank You.

Getting back to the OP question, while I can not comment on or tell you details of the ceremonies involved, suffice it to say they teach valuable
lessons that are as true today as they were when the Knights were founded. I honestly think many of you overly conspirital types would be rather
disapponinted with them overall. Not that they aren't good, just your imaginations are much richer than the actual ceremonies, you'd be
dissappointed for sure. You keep thinking we are are either horribly misguided or evil though, after all, you know better than I do.

Originally posted by akilles
The point is, these initiations (the serious ones) are designed to keep you from talking about it. It is an 'experience' that should be felt to be
shared among all those who went through it, and not mentioned to all the rest.

Plus, any time they want to break down your individual barriers, you know there will be nudity involved (or at the least, a uniform/robe that everyone
has to wear). Its tried and true, and you can probably be glad you didn't hear any more from your dad/husband.

And you know this from your VAST amount of personal experience, eh?

A uniform/robe that everyone has to wear at initiation?! Oh the HORROR!!

It's very subtle this time, but I still think you are teetering on the verge of homophobia.

P.S. Rasputin: There are a couple of KofC around here who will probably answer most if not all questions you might have... I wouldn't expect they
would share ritual or cermonies with you, but perhaps can give you an idea of what it's about. Pbrez is one, as is Chief_Counsellor. Hope this helps.

[edit on 5/23/05 by The Axeman]

They shouldn't be answering any questions about their ceremony and anything that is discussed with a non-member would be anything but the information
that is sought after. Much like the free-masons who will tell you all sorts of things that have nothing to do with what is actually being discussed
or done at their meetings.

The fascis
is a symbol of the Knights of Columbus and just about every fascist regime in history (including ours - look for it in the Capitol Building, on
various flags, and even our coin money). The Columbian order of the freemasons is the order which our nation's founders came (hence Washington,
District of Columbia).

The Catholic church is at the heart of many conspiracies and is inclusive in the "New World Order" Freemason conspiracy. I personally believe that
most or all monotheistic religions have been exacerbated and spread purposefully (and perhaps less than truthfully) by the masons throughout history
since they are pretty much a religion of their own (the only requirement being that you adhere to a monotheistic belief). Let's not forget about
Opus Dei. The Catholic Church and its secret societies are up to just as much scrutiny as any other society. Lots of legit members will always step
up, defend their 'group', and disavow any wrongdoings. These people usually aren't privy (and never will be) to the information that theorists
discuss.

A uniform/robe that everyone has to wear at initiation?! Oh the HORROR!!

A robe featuring the satanic "all seeing eye" that is also present on both Mormon temples, the dollar bill, and various corporate entities => yeah,
it is horrible. Self censorship is the vehicle by which they operate with impunity.

Originally posted by useurhead
Lots of legit members will always step up, defend their 'group', and disavow any wrongdoings. These people usually aren't privy (and never will
be) to the information that theorists discuss.

I agree with you utterly and completely, Masons know nothing about the institution they have been initiated into. Only the conspiracy theorist may
know the true 'information' regarding Freemasonry, why anyone would think otherwise is so far beyond me as to be ludicrisly
unexplainable.

Originally posted by useurhead
Lots of legit members will always step up, defend their 'group', and disavow any wrongdoings. These people usually aren't privy (and never will
be) to the information that theorists discuss.

I agree with you utterly and completely, Masons know nothing about the institution they have been initiated into. Only the conspiracy theorist may
know the true 'information' regarding Freemasonry, why anyone would think otherwise is so far beyond me as to be ludicrisly
unexplainable.

Since the highest degree of masonry is one that is secret even from you Blue Lodgers, you know just as much as a Conspiracy Theorist (CT) does. Only
CTers have an unfettered viewpoint, one that isn't tainted by membership and the natural human feelings of camaraderie. Also, if one is to admit
that their association is 'evil' (to keep it simple) at any level is to admit being in league with 'evil' making it equally difficult to be
objective.

Objectivity is the name of the game when the same degree of information is available to both parties. The more objective party is more likely to
obtain more truthful information and disseminate such.

Since the highest degree of masonry is one that is secret even from you Blue Lodgers, you know just as much as a Conspiracy Theorist (CT)
does.

This is incorrect. There is no degree of Masonry that is "secret". The only thing that is private is the *ceremony of initiation* into the degree,
not the degree itself.

All degrees for all Masonic Rites are listed in their Constitutions and Codes, and are matters of Masonic law. Masons cannot introduce spurious
degrees into the system.

Also, just to point an obvious fact, *ALL* Masons are "Blue Lodgers".

Only CTers have an unfettered viewpoint, one that isn't tainted by membership and the natural human feelings of camaraderie. Also, if one
is to admit that their association is 'evil' (to keep it simple) at any level is to admit being in league with 'evil' making it equally difficult
to be objective.

Conspiracy Theorists are generally not objective because they are usually lacking basic knowledge of Masonic law and organization. Your above comments
about "secret degree" are a good example. Throughout the history of Masonry, hundreds of Masonic Rites have popped up, with thousands of degrees.
Their existence is certainly not "secret", and Masonic scholars and historians have written tons of books about them.

Since the highest degree of masonry is one that is secret even from you Blue Lodgers, you know just as much as a Conspiracy Theorist (CT)
does.

This is incorrect. There is no degree of Masonry that is "secret". The only thing that is private is the *ceremony of initiation* into the degree,
not the degree itself.

All degrees for all Masonic Rites are listed in their Constitutions and Codes, and are matters of Masonic law. Masons cannot introduce spurious
degrees into the system.

Also, just to point an obvious fact, *ALL* Masons are "Blue Lodgers".

Only CTers have an unfettered viewpoint, one that isn't tainted by membership and the natural human feelings of camaraderie. Also, if one
is to admit that their association is 'evil' (to keep it simple) at any level is to admit being in league with 'evil' making it equally difficult
to be objective.

Conspiracy Theorists are generally not objective because they are usually lacking basic knowledge of Masonic law and organization. Your above comments
about "secret degree" are a good example. Throughout the history of Masonry, hundreds of Masonic Rites have popped up, with thousands of degrees.
Their existence is certainly not "secret", and Masonic scholars and historians have written tons of books about them.

[edit on 15-1-2008 by Masonic Light]

I am willing to believe this, however, please account for the history of 33rd degree Masons being exclusive to the top most elite, upper echelon,
mega-rich, and ultra powerful.

Also, please explain why the overtly obsessive (and quite frankly, creepy) symbols are built into the infrastructure of our nation's capital as well
as numerous corporations and even religious sects (Mormons). There is way too many correlations and parallels to declare these things
"coincidences". Also, what is the deal with the "New World Order" and the collaboration of modern 33rds with organizations like CFR, Trilateral
Commission, and Bilderberger groups also featuring the planets top elite, mega-rich, and ultra powerful. Also, please explain the step-by-step
following of doctrines from a number of different religious and [so-called] "secret society" doctrines that called for a unified Europe with one
currency (something we already have seen and are seeing the beginnings of).

There is far too much correlation for me, personally, but if you can explain away everything with good sourcing, I'd be willing to drop the whole
theory.

Originally posted by useurhead
I am willing to believe this, however, please account for the history of 33rd degree Masons being exclusive to the top most elite, upper echelon,
mega-rich, and ultra powerful.

Interesting indeed. I became a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason several years ago and I have never considered myself to be of the "upper echelon"
I'm certainly not mega-rich (heck, I drive a Chevrolet truck) and I'm hardly ultra-powerful.

What makes you think that 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons are all these?

Sure, there have been a couple of U.S. Presidents who have held the 33rd Degree, several congressmen, senators etc. But by far the vast majority of
us are working-class people like myself who truly enjoy (and understand) Freemasonry and have been honoured by the Scottish Rite .

By the way, the 33rd isn't given solely for Masonic work within the fraternity itself. It's also given based on community (i.e. "charity" type)
work, work within one's church or synagogue, etc.

Humanitarian-type "things" are highly regarded amongst Freemasons.

As for the Trilateral Commission....well, shucks, I've never been invited to serve. Maybe when I get the 34th Degree

Originally posted by useurhead
I am willing to believe this, however, please account for the history of 33rd degree Masons being exclusive to the top most elite, upper echelon,
mega-rich, and ultra powerful.

Interesting indeed. I became a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason several years ago and I have never considered myself to be of the "upper echelon"
I'm certainly not mega-rich (heck, I drive a Chevrolet truck) and I'm hardly ultra-powerful.

What makes you think that 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons are all these?

Sure, there have been a couple of U.S. Presidents who have held the 33rd Degree, several congressmen, senators etc. But by far the vast majority of
us are working-class people like myself who truly enjoy (and understand) Freemasonry and have been honoured by the Scottish Rite .

By the way, the 33rd isn't given solely for Masonic work within the fraternity itself. It's also given based on community (i.e. "charity" type)
work, work within one's church or synagogue, etc.

Humanitarian-type "things" are highly regarded amongst Freemasons.

As for the Trilateral Commission....well, shucks, I've never been invited to serve. Maybe when I get the 34th Degree

lol. Okay okay. Well said, sir. My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any
degree) likely do not meet in the same lodges that you and your fellow masons meet. Perhaps these upper echelon "33rd degree members" decided to
break away from the official Freemason lodges and form their own form of freemasonry. That, of course, is speculation. But I can't possibly see the
correlation of a call for a "New World Order" in conjunction with all the occult symbols built into our capital along with dozens of other
"coincidences". Similar behavior is demonstrated in historical empires where tributes to their Gods were paid by inlaying symbols of the Gods in
their architecture. It goes way beyond a fraternal feeling when your monument is one of the largest masonic symbols in the world (obelisk surrounded
by a circle) and streets are laid out to form a pentagram with the White House at the pinnacle (Lucifer's mind in the occult). I have no doubt that
normal "run of the mill" masons have no part in this, but a 'break off' sect from centuries ago endures in the shadow of a very legit group (being
you guys).

Whew! Took a good 45 minutes to read all of this, and I must say that it has truly forced me to take a good look at some of my beliefs and
attitudes.
I was raised in an Italian, Catholic family. My dad's mother passed away while praying the Rosary, which she did daily. I've grown accustomed to
people bashing the Catholic church over the years, so this is nothing new. Heck, even the only Catholic President of the US was assassinated! I know
that my church has been feared and hated almost since it's inception.
With that in mind: the phrase "hate breeds more hate" finally makes sense to me.
I'm guilty too, you see. I despised muslims (I blame it on my combat time in Somalia, not 9/11), I loathed Masons (I don't understand them, nor
trust them), and various other groups/minorities/etc.
That's all going to have to change.
My father is a 4th degree Knight, and I have been seriously considering joining. I'm not even that interested in the cheap beer and excellent food
at the "clubhouse". I belong to our local Sons of Italy Lodge, and the majority of our members are Knights as well. I have seen the good deeds
that both organizations do in our community.
The Knights are an honorable and devout service and social organization, and not a secret society bent on the commission of foul deeds. Trying to
"tie in" the naming of the Knights to some pagan roots is ridiculous... Somebody's been reading too much Dan Brown.
On a side note concering Cristoforo Colombo... in my family Columbus Day is a bigger holiday than 4JULY, and I wouldn't have it any other way!
Basically, I want to defend my faith, our service organization, and apologize to all that I may have offended through my OWN ignorance... Most
specifically the Masons that I have flamed on this site. My eyes are now open.
Thanks for all the hate folks.
Chris

Originally posted by useurhead
lol. Okay okay. Well said, sir. My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any
degree)

Clarify that, please. Only members of the Scottish Rite may obtain the 33rd Degree, as that degree is the "property" if you will of the Scottish
Rite. There are many very active Masons who never decide to join the S.R. and therefore will never be eligible. I think you misunderstand our
"degree" system. Higher numbers do not equate with "higher degrees".

likely do not meet in the same lodges that you and your fellow masons meet.

Again, I think you're confused as to how Masonry itself works. The various branches do meet in different "Lodges" "Chapters" "Councils"
"Commanderies" "Consistories" and so forth. As for the 33rd Degree, it is conferred in and by the Supreme Council of the Ancient & Accepted
Scottish Rite. Only 33rd Degree members (and candidates FOR the 33rd Degree allowed to attend) However when the Supreme Council (the governing body
of the Scottish Rite) meets, it meets in the 14th Degree. Confusing? Yeah, a little.

Perhaps these upper echelon "33rd degree members" decided to break away from the official Freemason lodges and form their own form of freemasonry.

IF they were to do that, it would be considered "spurious" and "irregular" and therefore NOT a part of Freemasonry. The penalties of such
actions would be suspension or even expulsion from the Fraternity.

That, of course, is speculation.

Understood.

Can someone here provide me a link to a list of 33rd degree masons?

No. The Supreme Council has records of her members of course, but Masonic membership is not a matter of public record, at least in the U.S.

However when the Supreme Council elects new "honor men" their names are published in the periodical and now on-line. For example here:

is a list of those elected to receive the Knight Commander of the Court of Honour, (I believe Masonic Light and Senrak are both KCCH's) which in the
Southern Jurisdiction is a prerequisite to receiving the 33rd Degree, but NOT a guarantee of receiving it.

Yeah, I know...further confusion. It's really no wonder there's so much speculation and rumor about Freemasonry. It's a very "fluid" thing to
be sure.

Thank you for all your information. I agree that if these one-time true Freemasons were to split off, it would be spurious and against the rules of
the actual establishment of Freemasonry. I, however, do tend to believe that a much more rabid form of Freemasonry did become separated from the
official and well known pack in the mid 18th century at the behest of the Rothschild family. The entity known as the "Illuminati" would most likely
be the candidate for this breakaway bunch.

I will never be able to accept that the calls for NWO and all the symbols and numerology involved with these unscrupulous "Freemasons" are mere
coincidence and that they are just very avid members of the mainstream Freemasons. Unless some kind of explanation can be given with proper
references to lay to rest the symbolic anomalies and disturbing occult parallels.

You guys have laid to rest my theories that the "Illuminati" (unscrupulous other sect of Freemasons) are only part of the mainstream and official
Freemasons. They, most likely, continued their membership in the official Freemasons while at the same time forming their own sect.

Originally posted by useurhead
lol. Okay okay. Well said, sir. My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any
degree)

I meant that it doesn't matter what degree (thanks to you and others on this forum information) they are, but that the upper echelon (mega-rich,
ultra powerful, influential) members [of any degree] may have formed their own sect (an unrecognized and secretly kept sect). While I am still very
confused about the degree system, I have grown to understand that it isn't a ranking system.

Originally posted by useurhead
My issue, then, is that the upper echelon members of Freemasons (who are of the 33rd degree... or really any degree) likely do not meet in the same
lodges that you and your fellow masons meet.

You are correct, but let me elaborate in order to avoid confusion.

Blue Lodges confer the three degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry. In the United States, the Scottish Rite of Masonry begins at the 4th degree and ends at
the 33rd degree.

In most locations, there are Scottish Rite Temples where these degrees are conferred. So you rae correct that it does not always occur in the same
building. However, in smaller towns without Scottish Rite Temples, the Scottish Rite can get permission from a Blue Lodge to use their building.

I am a 32° KCCH member of the Scottish Rite, and we have our own Scottish Rite Temple in my city. So I go to a different building to attend Scottish
Rite meetings than when I attend my Lodge.

Perhaps these upper echelon "33rd degree members" decided to break away from the official Freemason lodges and form their own form of
freemasonry.

That would be unlikely because it would be grounds for them to be expelled (and therefore lose their 33rd degree).

It goes way beyond a fraternal feeling when your monument is one of the largest masonic symbols in the world (obelisk surrounded by a circle)
and streets are laid out to form a pentagram with the White House at the pinnacle (Lucifer's mind in the occult).

You mind this difficult to believe, but there are no obelisks used in Masonic symbolism. Also, the streets of Washington D.C., contrary to what many
conspiracy theorists believe, do not form a pentagram. And the architect of the D.C. street design was not a Mason.

Also, the pentagram has nothing to do with "Lucifer". It was a symbol of the elements used by Pythagoras and Plato.

Can someone here provide me a link to a list of 33rd degree masons?

Most 33rd degree Masons are just regular guys that you've never heard of before. But here's a few famous ones:

Originally posted by useurhead
The entity known as the "Illuminati" would most likely be the candidate for this breakaway bunch.

The Illuminati didn't break away from Masonry, and their leader, Dr. Adam Weishaupt, did not become a Mason until after he had already founded the
Illuminati.

The Illuminati did, however, illegally confer Masonic degrees (i.e., they did so without proper Masonic authority).

I will never be able to accept that the calls for NWO and all the symbols and numerology involved with these unscrupulous "Freemasons"

If you are speaking of the Illuminati, let me add that I have the highest respect for them. They wanted freedom, and were ready to fight for it,
having been inspired by our own forefathers. Although I did not approve of them establishing clandestine Lodges, I certainly cannot disapprove of
their goals.

Originally posted by akilles
Plus, any time they want to break down your individual barriers, you know there will be nudity involved

Terrific! Where do I sign up? All this time I thought it was just my wallet broken down when I went to the nudie bar, but now it turns out that it
was my individual barriers.

Originally posted by akilles
And the Knights are named after a Pagan goddess, so I wouldn't stress the Catholicism aspect, except in which cases Catholicism is also Pagan goddess
worship (for ex. Mary worship)

The KoC isn't named after a pagan goddess, Catholicism isn't pagan worship, and - as near as I can figure from everything I've read or know about
the KoC - the KoC appear to worship insurance. Insurance isn't pagan, it's just boring.

Originally posted by ThePunisher
why would a so called Catholic (Knights of Columbus) Ritual need to be scary?, and why would Catholics need Rituals anyway?.

Maybe it's scary to some.

And Catholics need ritual for the same reason autombile operators need paint on the street.

Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Example: Other organizations or churches don't have an agenda to hide.

Why do the Masons and other cults deem themselves to secrecy ?

If it's not up front something is going on. It's just plain old common sense.

Well, then I think that many - if not all - conspiracy theorists and every poster who believes what you've written needs to investigate every toy
company, software developer, publicly or privately held company in the world. Because all organizations mentioned have secrets that
they don't disclose to the general public.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
So why were the Knights of Columbus named after Christopher Columbus? Or is that not true? If it is true, why would they pick him to name their
organization after, of all people?

Fraternities were very popular during the 18th and 19th centuries.

Why were they named the KoC? Because cool sounding names like Freemason, Lions, Rotary Club, Moose, Elks, Water Buffalo, Odd Fellows, Red Men,
Knights of Pythias, Woodman, and so on were already taken. And because "dudes who meet in the basement of St. Mary's Church" didn't really have
the air of mystery that "Knights of Columbus" did.

Originally posted by akilles
Why? Its like asking why they started in the first place. They were started in 1882, and wouldn't you know it, 2 years later, in 1884 all Catholics
are banned from being Freemasons

Really? 1882?

And here I thought that Clement XII in 1738 forbidding Catholics from Masonic membership under threat of excommunication was when Freemasonry for
Catholics was banned.

The more I read your posts, the more respect I have for you Meat. You carefully research and consider context before you reply. Then you proceed to
shred the ignorance. I agree with this post 100%!

Like I said in my previous post, Catholic-bashing is nothing new. Unfortunately, it's not going to go away no matter how many facts are laid on the
table. I never let the stereotypes or jokes about priests bother me, I just always used it as a guide on who to ignore more adamantly.

That would be unlikely because it would be grounds for them to be expelled (and therefore lose their 33rd degree).

If done in secret, there can be no expulsion.

You mind this difficult to believe, but there are no obelisks used in Masonic symbolism. Also, the streets of Washington D.C., contrary to what
many conspiracy theorists believe, do not form a pentagram. And the architect of the D.C. street design was not a Mason.

My mistake. The obelisk within a circle is occult symbolism.
"The obelisk is critically important to the occultist because they believe that the spirit of the ancient Egyptian sun god, Ra, resided in the
obelisk."

It is not the streets only, but Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Scott Circle, Washington Circle, and Mt. Vernon Square when connected (most with streets,
but not all) create a perfectly even pentagram. The pentagram in occultism symbolizes the "Devil's Goathead of Mendes" and has much to do with
Luciferian beliefs. Connecting the perimeter of these also creates a pentagon around the pentagram (completing the symbol). Also, drawing a line
from the US Capitol building to The White House and another from the Capitol to the Jefferson Memorial creates a perfect compass and two streets in
front form a square. The overall image is the classic mason's Compass and Square. Finally, drawing a straight line from US Capitol to the Lincoln
memorial, and one from one of your Supreme Council 33rd deg. Temples to the Washington Monument creates The Triple Tau and connects all the symbols
together. You can do this using google maps. The Pentagon is the center of the pentagram and also forms a pentagram when connecting the corners with
straight lines.

Most 33rd degree Masons are just regular guys that you've never heard of before. But here's a few famous ones: etc etc

Your list includes many corporate elites and sophisticates. I understand your meaning though and I fully believe that any sort of Masonic group in
collusion with international interest groups (CFR, Trilateral, Bilderberger, Illuminati, etc) would have nothing to do with your order and those of
normal masons. Like I said, maybe a secret break off group.

Originally posted by useurhead
I've read many places that Bill Clinton, Saddam Hussein, and Jimmy Carter were 33rd degree masons as well. Masons are worldwide, correct?

As Masonic Light said, only the two former Presidents held the 33rd Degree. Bill Clinton is not a Mason at all, although he did belong to the Order
of DeMolay for Boys (a Masonic-sponsored youth organization)

Jimmy Carter is not a Mason either, let alone a 33rd Degree. I sort of wish he was though. I think he's a good person and would be a good Mason, no
matter how lousy a President he was.

Hussein, was not (Thank GOD) a Mason at all. He wouldn't have passed the investigating committee. "Friendship, Morality and Brotherly Love"
weren't things he was particularly known for.

As for being world-wide, Freemasonry exists in many places across the globe, but not in every country, per se. Totalitarian Governments, Dictators
and the like fiercely hate Freemasonry. (All the more reason for me to like it)

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