Berkley, MI: Robert Brown's "School of Chinese Martial Arts"

It took me way too long to get down to this school and check it out for myself. But now that I’ve visited, I can summarize my experience at Robert Brown’s “School of Chinese Martial Arts” in Berkley Michigan in 6 words:

Sorry, I seem to have gone over my word limit. When I first called the school and asked to do an intro I began to get an odd feeling over the inquiry that was quickly launched. The young girl on the phone asked what martial arts I had taken before, where I took them, how long I had been involved in each, and who all of my teachers were. She even asked the whole “What are you hoping to get out of martial arts training” while going into a “we are real, not for sport” speech. Okay. She seemed nice enough though. It might not have been that big of a deal if I hadn’t known that nobody at the school will discuss who Sifu Brown’s teachers were, or what arts he actually is ranked in, or where he trained, etc., etc.

When you first walk into this “Chinese” school, you’ll notice pictures of the founders of Goju Karate, Isshin Karate, and “Okinawan” Karate alongside Ueshiba and Jigoro Kano. There is also a picture of “the inventor of martial arts” (Bodhidharma: more on him in Part 2), a Tai Chi guy, and some Indian dude. All of these pictures, in Brown’s “Chinese” school of martial arts, appear over a fabulous koi pond.

I was greeted and questioned some more. A problem I’ve had with Robert Brown’s students on the Bullshido boards is that it’s been hard to get any straight answers. And, I feel that I got to the source of those vagaries by going directly to the school itself. I could get no straight answers about just about anything:

Me: About how long does it take to go from the beginner to the advanced classes?SCMA Student: Oh, it’s different for everyone.Me: What’s average for a committed student?SCMA: Oh, you never know.Me: What do you have to be able to do before progressing? SCMA: Oh, lots of things.

Me: Do you guys spar?SCMA: Oh yeah. Lots of it.Me: Can you describe how you guys spar? Could I check that out?SCMA: Oh, we do everything. You can’t watch it though.Me: I can’t watch it?SCMA: No.Me: Do you spar in the beginner classes?SCMA: Oh, no, not at all. Not until the advanced classes. We don’t want people hurting each other, so they have to know how not to hurt each other until we let anyone spar.Me: Do you do point, continuous, ground?SCMA: Oh yeah. We do it all.Me: How often do you guys spar?SCMA: Oh, all the time.

Me: You said you guys do ground fighting. What kind or style does Brown teach?SCMA: Oh, Sifu knows Chinese Dog Style Kung Fu, and he’s also learning a style of Jiu-Jitsu.Me: Oh, what type of Jiu-Jitsu?SCMA: A ground style.Me: Who is he learning that under?SCMA: A friend.Me: Where at?SCMA: Oh, not here.Me: So he travels and does correspondence?SCMA: No, they visit each other.Me: Do you know what organization he’s a part of?SCMA: Oh, one of them.Me: What’s Brown’s rank in Jiu-Jitsu?SCMA: Oh, he has so many black-belts.

Me: Who is Brown’s teacher?SCMA: Oh, he’s a student of every person he meets.Me: Well, who is his Sifu?SCMA: Some guy in China.

Me: How long have you been here?SCMA: Twelve years.

Twelve years. TWELVE FUCKING YEARS and she didn’t know who Brown’s teacher was other than “some guy in China”? Twelve years and she’s learning some “Dog Style” and Jiu-Jitsu, but has no clue what it is or where her teacher learns from? I could not get any straight answers from these people. I asked some of those questions numerous, numerous times. What style? Who? How long? How? When? Nothing would get any answers.

I was told to sit outside of class while it began because “Some new people get a little weirded out due to all the bowing.” And I did. As class began everyone lined up to “meditate” and each time a new person came in, they’d have to go up and do a deep bow to the person in “their” spot, and then that person would bow and stand up with a prayer hand out to them, and then that person would go to another person now in “their” spot, and then more bowing would ensue. There were over 30 people there (even some not entirely ugly women). There was lots of bowing. In fact, if you sign up for the school you have to first attend an “orientation” class to teach you how to bow, when to bow, how deep to bow, and all of the other bowing formalities and rules.

When everyone was lined up properly the class meditated for about 5 minutes. Then they did about 2 minutes of stretching. That’s when I got to go in and work with an assistant. I was not “supposed” to watch the class when it was going on, but basically everyone lined up and ran down their row doing snap kicks, then side kicks, then hook punches, then uppercuts, then this-or-that. There was lots of yelling during this. It was definitely a good cardio workout. Ya know, like Tae-Bo. Sifu Brown stood at the front of the class yelling out numbers. He did not work with any of his students. I guess this is where I should mention that I couldn’t bring water onto the mat: “If you really need water, you can keep it in the closet or go to the drinking fountain. But… that’s only if you really need it.”

I worked in the corner with an assistant, “not watching class”. I was shown basic Karate kicks, and some punches. Each time a new move was shown the assistant would yell out someone’s name: “Mr. So-And-So. I need your help with a demonstration!” In fact, there was lots of yelling going on during class. Mr. So-And-So would run over and the assistant would tell him to toss out a punch or kick, and then he’d respond with a move. Then we’d do the move a few times. I couldn’t figure out why he wouldn’t have me do this instead.

One of the “moves” was Bruce Lee’s “one-inch punch”. This was thrown out like a whip. “Fast and relaxed, and then tensing right when you impact.” Um, excuse me, but what the **** are you talking about?

This went on for about 30 minutes. Cardio work. Yelling. Sifu Brown standing at the front of class not working with students. Me “not watching class” and working on basics. More yelling. “Black shirts” help people who are doing moves wrong, while Brown stands at the front of class. Then we did about 2 more minutes of stretching before doing the “self-defense” part of class. This is the first time I saw Brown actually work with a student. When Robert Brown got an assistant, he said “Now, if he throws a punch I could do something like this” and elbowed the guy really hard in the chest. There was a look of pain in the student’s face as Brown aggressively tried out a few other things and smacked him around. We were then shown an Aikido-type throw as a response. Brown then told us to “go easy on each other” and to “keep it simple and light.” So after watching you slap a student in the face we get to go easy?

And then I got to witness the amazing technical abilities of “Dog Style” + “a ground style” of Jiu-Jitsu!!!

Brown demo'ed an arm-bar from guard. He made no mention of hip position, or finger position to keep the thumb up, and did just a simple grab at the wrist with both hands. He sat in a butterfly with his knees spread apart, and showed no general control of the arm positioning. When he told the student to grab his arm to resist, the student simply clasped his fingers. Brown’s response was to kick at the opposing shoulder. Huh? He then said “Now what if that guy tries to bite me?” and he kicked the student in the face. “Now he can’t bite me!”

Then I worked with the same assistant again. "Wow. You have really good arm-bar defense," said the assistant who couldn't really get me to tap at all because nobody there knew how to position the arm. I just twisted my arm up, without the need to even arch, and he pushed his hips into my bent elbow. And I’m a chunner. Like I actually know what I’m doing.

The last 10 minutes were more meditation and some questions. Everyone bowed a bunch. Then Robert Brown took questions and told people such wonderful things as “When throwing a round-house, there should be no weight on the foot on the ground. None.” Or, “If you are not meditating then you are not doing Martial Arts of any kind or style! You might be doing Judo, or sport defense, or martial kinder-care, or Aikido, but you are not doing Martial Arts if you are not meditating.” Let me repeat that last line again for those of you who didn’t realize just how stupid it was:

“IF YOU ARE NOT MEDITATING THEN YOU ARE NOT DOING MARTIAL ARTS OF ANY KIND OR STYLE.”

Class ended and it was time for the Hard Sell and more kung-fu question evasion:

SCMA: So what did you think? Wasn’t it great?Me: Interesting, but I’m really curious what your higher level stuff is like.SCMA: Oh, did you like it?Me: Could I stay a few minutes and watch the next class?SCMA: Oh, no. Nobody can watch. We don’t even let our lower students watch the advanced classes. Too dangerous.

SCMA: What can we do for you? Is this something you want to do?Me: Um… I guess I’m curious what it is you really offer.SCMA: You can decide to sign up, or you can do nothing over the next six months and not get in shape and make your life better.

That’s right; you have to sign up in six-month increments. AND the first six-months are “probationary” so that they can “examine” you. I’m not even making this up. It’s $130 a month for “kung fu”, and $105 for their “tai chi”. You can go to all of the beginner classes that you want until you progress on. That comes out to about 1 hour a day 5 nights a week and 4 day classes.

Me: So the first six-months are so that you can see if I’m a good fit and if you want me to train at your dojo?SCMA: Yes. This kung-fu is TOO dangerous.Me: So… does that actually happen? You have people you don’t allow back?SCMA: We don’t want to teach violent people how to fight. The kung-fu… it’s just too dangerous.

“THE KUNG-FU… IT’S JUST TOO DANGEROUS.”

While I was gathering my things I peeked into the “advanced” class. I only got to see about 5 minutes of this “TOO DANGEROUSNESS” in action, but it included standard responses to basic punches. You know, the standard responses where an attacker throws a hook punch and you duck under it, punch him, step to the side, kick, throw another punch, step in, and then throw. You know, while your opponent is frozen like you’re Sub-Zero and you’re executing a combo?

PART TWO: NINETEEN REASONS OF WHAT THE ****.

PART TWO: NINETEEN REASONS OF WHAT THE ****.

I got a hold of one of Robert Brown’s teaching CD’s. It’s called “Transforming a Temple, Creating an Art”. For lack of a better word, it makes a bunch of “retarded” accusations about the origin of Martial Arts™.

#1: Fighting probably started in Africa.
#2: Martial Arts™ were invented in China, buy a monk named Bodhidharma.
#3: Almost everyone agrees on point #2. No-one can disprove this.
#4: Bodhidharma came from India and brought Zen to China. Some people say he floated to China.
#5: Bodhidharma lived in a small, damp cave for 7 years. Robert Brown has visited this cave, so you should listen to him.
#6: Ta-Mo Bodhidharma thought the monks were lazy, and so he invented a workout routine.
#7: The workout routine was made so that the monks could meditate in everything they did, not just while they were sitting on the ground.
#8: For this reason, you are only doing Martial Arts™ if you are meditating.
#9: Meditation is done to find Paradise, Heaven, Nirvana, self-enlightenment, Pardis, the inner-self, one-ness, or God™. Martial Arts™, as a form of meditation, is done for the same reason.
#10: Bodhidharma invented punches, kicks, throws, trapping, and ground fighting.
#11: People say that others have invented “new moves”, but that is not true as every punch, kick, chin-na, throw, trap, and ground-fighting technique was perfected at the Shaolin Temple. Brown has been there.
#12: Every move with every weapon ever was also perfected at Shaolin.
#13: When a random person on the street attacks you, they are not an opponent. They are a “partner” who is simply helping you to meditate.
#14: Your random partners don’t know this. Win or lose, it doesn’t matter because you win if you don’t create negative karma.
#15: LARP. LARP. LARPity LARPy LARP. LARP LARP.
#16: If you are not meditating when defending yourself, then you are not doing Martial Arts™ of any style, since all styles go back to Shaolin Temple® and were invented as a form of meditation.
#17: You should never “attack” at all, ever, in a fight or in sparring. You should be 100% defense.
#18: LARP LARP LARP.
#19: LARPy???

the artwork on the cd's, lovely. IMO, that's where it ends. Brown and J. Donahue do a "Lessons in Mindfulness" which is now being marketed world wide. it consists of very nicely printed booklets that also have the "weekly address" by Brown on cd. i have no idea if they include the cd's that they gave the students who subscribed to 'LIM', but while i attended the school they gave them to us. (i have a stack of them..) we were told that these 'talks' were included with the booklets being distributed outside the dojo. keep the artwork, use the cd for a coaster, eh?

Ani Di Franco's Fuel touches upon a few points...

people used to make records
as in a record of an event
the event of people playing music in a room
now everything is cross-marketing
it's about sunglasses and shoes
or guns and drugs
you choose
we got it rehashed
we got it half-assed
we're digging up all the graves
and we're spitting on the past
and you can choose between the colors
of the lipstick on the whores
cause we know the difference between
the font of 20% more
and the font of teriakiyi
you tell me
how does it...make you feel?

Dearest dagon akujin,
It seems that from the get go you had a serious hard on to bust this guy. You've written a review with a serious bias, made outlandish claims of what was said( did you even listen to anything that was told to you? Seriously, the art is Yuechia or Yuchia. It's not Dog Boxing( Kuo Chuan?). This wasn't an investigation.....this was a witch hunt.
You also said that you were a teacher and got the summers off. What do you teach? Remind me to avoid such a class. To get a bachelors degree in communications you still have to do research. Journalists have ruined their own careers acting in this manner( unfortunately Mitch Albom still writes:(). Fortunately, your reputation around here is dubious at best. I hope you see the light and cease with all your douchebaggery.

Dagon: I was one of the Black Coats wandering during the Beginners Class you visited, and I was practicing in the Intermediate Class you mistook for Advanced afterward.

I’ve got to give you credit for actually dragging yourself in for the look-see. Truly, I’m impressed that you followed up. If only you had left your prejudices at the door, rather than looking for evidence you could twist to fit your preconceptions, you might also get credit for writing an honest review. Alas, it’s not to be.

I had you pegged from the beginning, and I’m sure I wasn’t the only one. When you started asking about the pictures of Martial Arts masters on the wall as we were stretching I figured we had a visitor from Bullshido. (I’ve never understood the obsession you seem to have with those pictures.) It’s interesting that you mention them here, but you don’t mention that you asked about them, and received an answer. My guess is that you weren’t able to come up with a suitably sarcastic way to twist the response in order to mock the staffer who was trying to help you.

Originally Posted by dagon

Me: About how long does it take to go from the beginner to the advanced classes?
SCMA Student: Oh, it’s different for everyone.
Me: What’s average for a committed student?
SCMA: Oh, you never know.
Me: What do you have to be able to do before progressing?
SCMA: Oh, lots of things.

At least you didn’t ask how long it takes to get to Black Belt. You get points for that much. And I’ve heard this question asked and answered before, so I know you got a straight answer. (There’s a possibility that they had already figured you for a ringer, and were by this point just tired of your schtick.)

Me: Do you guys spar?
SCMA: Oh yeah. Lots of it.
Me: Can you describe how you guys spar? Could I check that out?
SCMA: Oh, we do everything. You can’t watch it though.
Me: I can’t watch it?
SCMA: No.
Me: Do you spar in the beginner classes?
SCMA: Oh, no, not at all. Not until the advanced classes. We don’t want people hurting each other, so they have to know how not to hurt each other until we let anyone spar.
Me: Do you do point, continuous, ground?
SCMA: Oh yeah. We do it all.
Me: How often do you guys spar?
SCMA: Oh, all the time.

While your quoting skills are abysmal, the gist of this seems accurate. Yep, we do spar – some point sparring in Intermediate Classes, point and full-on in Advanced Classes. And, yes, amazingly enough, people have to go to work the next day and work with clients, patients, co-workers and the like, so we try really hard not to disfigure each other when sparring and grappling.

I was told to sit outside of class while it began because “Some new people get a little weirded out due to all the bowing.” And I did. As class began everyone lined up to “meditate” and each time a new person came in, they’d have to go up and do a deep bow to the person in “their” spot, and then that person would bow and stand up with a prayer hand out to them, and then that person would go to another person now in “their” spot, and then more bowing would ensue. . . if you sign up for the school you have to first attend an “orientation” class to teach you how to bow, when to bow, how deep to bow, and all of the other bowing formalities and rules.

You don’t have to attend the Orientation, but it sure helps you to not act like a jerk. It’s a traditional school, which finds value in the traditions of etiquette – you bow to your partners with whom you work, you bow to the teacher. Most students appreciate the instruction, as the etiquette can be foreign to most Americans, and people don’t like to feel like they stand out. I’m not sure where you got the “Prayer Hand” thing. Students line up for class in rank, and a late-comer will “bump” a student of lower rank, sometimes with cascading (and comical) results.

When everyone was lined up properly the class meditated for about 5 minutes. Then they did about 2 minutes of stretching. That’s when I got to go in and work with an assistant. I was not “supposed” to watch the class when it was going on, but basically everyone lined up and ran down their row doing snap kicks, then side kicks, then hook punches, then uppercuts, then this-or-that. There was lots of yelling during this. It was definitely a good cardio workout. Ya know, like Tae-Bo. Sifu Brown stood at the front of the class yelling out numbers. He did not work with any of his students.

Yeah, you were not “supposed” to be watching the rest of the class; you were supposed to be paying attention to what you were doing, and to the staffer who was in effect giving you a private lesson. Too bad you wasted the opportunity.

For your edification: while you were craning your neck, the rest of the class was doing kihon – I think it was two to three-step combinations that night, sidestepping, punches, kicks. The yelling you heard was the count for techniques. It’s a good cardio workout, if you let it be. It’s like Tae Bo if you don’t know what you’re looking at, or if you’ve already decided that you know what it’s all about. In which case you missed the focus of each technique, the emphasis on proper striking surfaces, body tension (and relaxation), rotation and the like. There’s a lot to miss, but that’s one reason why Sifu wanders through the class during this period, correcting technique one-on-one. If you missed his wandering, perhaps that’s when you were actually paying attention to what you were doing.

I guess this is where I should mention that I couldn’t bring water onto the mat: “If you really need water, you can keep it in the closet or go to the drinking fountain. But… that’s only if you really need it.”

Were you really working hard enough to need water? Seriously, though, imagine the mats when everyone has their own water bottle, cooler or lawn chair. Most people find a way to break away from practice for a quick drink, when they’re in dire need.

I worked in the corner with an assistant, “not watching class”. I was shown basic Karate kicks, and some punches. Each time a new move was shown the assistant would yell out someone’s name: “Mr. So-And-So. I need your help with a demonstration!” In fact, there was lots of yelling going on during class. Mr. So-And-So would run over and the assistant would tell him to toss out a punch or kick, and then he’d respond with a move. Then we’d do the move a few times. I couldn’t figure out why he wouldn’t have me do this instead.

Because as some guy who just walked in the door, we have to assume you’re a moron who can’t be trusted not to try something funky. (Especially when you’re not paying attention to what you’re doing, as busy as you seemed to be “not watching class”.)

One of the “moves” was Bruce Lee’s “one-inch punch”. This was thrown out like a whip. “Fast and relaxed, and then tensing right when you impact.” Um, excuse me, but what the **** are you talking about?

Sounds like you don’t recognize a backfist when you see one. The One-Inch Punch is an illustration of tension at the moment of impact, but it ain’t a backfist. Perhaps with all the not-paying-attention you were doing while checking out the hot chicks and clocking Sifu Brown’s wandering miles, you missed the seque from backfist to recussion punch, and you seem to have completely whiffed on the concept of body tension at the moment of impact. That’s okay – beginners aren’t expected to know this stuff, that’s why we start out slow. What’s not okay is that you think your lack of attention is somehow not your fault.

This went on for about 30 minutes. Cardio work. Yelling. Sifu Brown standing at the front of class not working with students. Me “not watching class” and working on basics. More yelling. “Black shirts” help people who are doing moves wrong, while Brown stands at the front of class. Then we did about 2 more minutes of stretching before doing the “self-defense” part of class.

Most beginner classes are broken down; kihon first in groups, during which you had your Intro; then Chin Na, Chokes, Throws and Grappling. What you thought was “self-defense” was this latter part. I’m not sure why you think a stomp kick or front punch, which you were shown during the first part of the class, couldn’t be used for self-defense.

This is the first time I saw Brown actually work with a student. When Robert Brown got an assistant, he said “Now, if he throws a punch I could do something like this” and elbowed the guy really hard in the chest. There was a look of pain in the student’s face as Brown aggressively tried out a few other things and smacked him around. We were then shown an Aikido-type throw as a response. Brown then told us to “go easy on each other” and to “keep it simple and light.” So after watching you slap a student in the face we get to go easy?

Hmm. Missed the point again. And again, it’s okay not to “get it” in the beginning. It’s kind of not-okay to be such a schmuck about the fact that you didn’t get it. Sifu Brown demonstrated the range of responses to a typical attack, such as a roundhouse punch. You can get hit – not so good; block it – better, but not great (this is probably where he whacked his helper); sidestep; or, at the highest level, merge (the “Aikido-type throw”). We’re expected to keep it light and simple in Beginner’s Class until we’ve got enough experience to be able to whack somebody without seriously hurting him.

And then I got to witness the amazing technical abilities of “Dog Style” + “a ground style” of Jiu-Jitsu!!!

I think you’re making that Dog Style part up. Been there nine years, and I’ve never heard it referred to as anything other than grappling. It’s part of Kung Fu, has always been since I started there: sidestepping, harmonizing, punching, kicking, chin na, chokes, throws, grappling. It takes a long time to get good at all of it, and most folks tend to really focus on the bits they’re best at, but that’s human nature.

The last 10 minutes were more meditation and some questions. Everyone bowed a bunch. Then Robert Brown took questions and told people such wonderful things as “When throwing a round-house, there should be no weight on the foot on the ground. None.”

Now let’s think about this statement. Do you really mean to tell us that’s what you heard? Or perhaps it was something closer to “when throwing a roundhouse punch, your weight moves to your back foot (for a front hand punch), bringing all your body behind the punch, so you’re not striking just with your arm”. Paraphrasing, but that’s the kind of thing I remember hearing. I know you’re trying to be amusing here, but you’re starting to make yourself sound silly.

Or, “If you are not meditating then you are not doing Martial Arts of any kind or style! You might be doing Judo, or sport defense, or martial kinder-care, or Aikido, but you are not doing Martial Arts if you are not meditating.” Let me repeat that last line again for those of you who didn’t realize just how stupid it was:

“IF YOU ARE NOT MEDITATING THEN YOU ARE NOT DOING MARTIAL ARTS OF ANY KIND OR STYLE.”

Yep. That’s the message. Incidentally, this is when I knew for sure that Sifu Brown had you pegged as a ringer, because he’s not usually that forceful with this particular message. The philosophy is that Martial Arts is not just about fighting; it’s for strengthening of the mind and the body together, and if you neglect the mind, you’re not a Martial Artist, no matter what style of physical movements and techniques you practice. You may be a Martial Technician, you may be a terrific physical fighter, but you ain’t an artist; sorry.

You don’t have to agree with him. Lots of people don’t. But there it is. So if you’re not interested in the whole package, including learning to discipline your mind, then the School of Chinese Martial Arts is definitely not for you..

Me: So the first six-months are so that you can see if I’m a good fit and if you want me to train at your dojo?
SCMA: Yes. This kung-fu is TOO dangerous.
Me: So… does that actually happen? You have people you don’t allow back?
SCMA: We don’t want to teach violent people how to fight. The kung-fu… it’s just too dangerous.

“THE KUNG-FU… IT’S JUST TOO DANGEROUS.”

The first six months is an interesting period. Some folks come in with know-it-all attitudes, like you did, and decide it’s not for them. Some folks come in with attitudes, realize there’s something they can learn here, stick around, lose the attitude, and have a great time. Some become great partners. Some people come in with attitudes, decide not to learn, and aren’t offered a renewal. Life’s too short to practice with jerks.

And I doubt that anyone said “the Kung Fu . . it’s just too dangerous.” That would be laughable. What they said, or tried to imply more politely than I have to, is that you are too dangerous. There’s no way they’ll allow some guy off the street to free-spar and grapple until they know the guy has sufficient control not to permanently damage his partner or himself. It ain’t the Kung Fu that’s too dangerous; it’s the front punch you can’t control that splits open somebody’s scalp, or the arm-bar you apply too forcefully. There are plenty of guys in the Dojo who can rough you up good if you want; but they won’t if you can’t handle it, because they were patient enough to learn how to be good partners, no matter the skill level of their partner.

While I was gathering my things I peeked into the “advanced” class. I only got to see about 5 minutes of this “TOO DANGEROUSNESS” in action, but it included standard responses to basic punches. You know, the standard responses where an attacker throws a hook punch and you duck under it, punch him, step to the side, kick, throw another punch, step in, and then throw. You know, while your opponent is frozen like you’re Sub-Zero and you’re executing a combo?

As has already been noted, you saw the first couple minutes of an Intermediate Class, not Advanced Class. Intermediate is typically where movement and striking, learned during the Beginner classes, are combined against a moving partner. As with most things, some people are really good at it, some people not so much. If I remember correctly, we were working from a known attack, and improvising responses off of movement.

In summary, it sounds like you didn’t actually learn anything during your introduction to the Dojo. That’s too bad, but from your posts you wouldn’t be a good fit there anyway. What’s worse is in that your “review”, which I suspect you already had composed in your mind before you darkened the door, you didn’t give other Bullshido members an honest assessment of the place. All we got was Dagon, staring into the mirror and marveling at how clever he is.

The School of Chinese Martial Arts is probably not for the bad-ass who wants to compete in MMA tournaments. There are gyms who focus on the sport aspect of martial arts, and if that’s what you’re after, you should go there. The SCMA is for people who expect more from their Martial Arts practice than just punching, kicking and doing damage to one another; who enjoy the variety of learning all ranges of fighting; who like the mental challenge of empty-hand and weapons forms; and who want to do all this in a pleasant, clean and safe environment with other grown-ups.

Real Men Don't Need to Prove Themselves

Dagon, clever name, did you use that in Dungeons & Dragons as well. I happen to know the "assistant" you worked with very well. I can tell you that if he had wanted to hurt you, or place you in an arm bar to the point of tapping you, he would have. What you don't understand, and probably never will, is that most people who want to try martial arts and are too intimidated to do so aren't too keen on being beaten up their first night. The idea behind the intro class is to give new students, and people who have never been in martial arts before, an ease into the culture. So to make someone tap on their first night, doesn't bode too well for a skinny nerd, ie. you. In your case, you came in to the Dojo with an attitude, and wanting an "experience" as I remember overhearing you say. The "experience" was said with such disdain that everyone within earshot could hear you were full of it. It seems to me that you have no other goal than to be better than those around you. I hope that you fulfill this in every way possible so that you may realize how empty your life truly is. When you have an experienced teacher and have studied under this person for a solid number of years I would gladly be willing to listen to you. Until your experience amounts to more than rolling around homo-erotically in a low-lit basement, than you really have no educated comments to add to this site.

P.S. Nathan,
I highly doubt Ms. D. would have given you anything remotely close to the answers you said she had. If you're so interested in who Sifu Brown practices his ground fighting with, find out who Shihan Dunn is of NYC then tell me who's full of S***.