Haj, My name's Bird and since these screens are filled with words (the music's playing through them though), I'd like to start a brainstorm about the dub-phenomenon. You can speak about the effects and the technical aspect of dub, but I think it is also interesting tot broaden dub to a way of thinking...dub as re-inventing the old, as a constant mutation of forms. Maybe some of you have some interesting ideas about dub and like to share them, Let the horizon broaden...

Q dub as re-inventing the old... /Q **** hmmmmm, as I see it: DUB is The Old!

in my mind dub is no-mystery, really. I simply see it as Reggae-Based Musical Production where The Producer acts as Musician/Performer during Production Process. Production Process is pretty much technical, so do you like it or not most talking is and will be about technical aspects. The only I could stress here is that Technical Production in DUB is THE PERFORMANCE (not just a chain of calculated steps and approved presets and applicatins), and thus it is filled with 'mystery'...

Ah...I think I understand what you say. It is possible though to describe technical processes in another language. That's even what is happening when you perform the Production Process. You can see the machinery as a kind of translator of ideas. I'm interested in grasping or taking a glimpse at those ideas which, I think, form the base. You can go on about forms, but I think the Dub can only get more interesting when you dive into other regions. But you do 'ave a point where you just perform and let the action speak louther than words... Create, Bird

Mixing Desk conncted to the source, through effects and feedback in its complex - is like The Beast ready to 'wake up'. Producer starts the reels and The Beast - is Alive. Producer knows that The Beast Is Alive, because when Producer moves one slider 'here' - The whole Organism Reacts. Producer moves the other slider 'there' and The Beast Reacts again. Now Producer Listens To the Reaction and responds by moving another slider. In the next few seconds the Producer and The Beast are actually acting as One Organism, and it becomes hard to draw the line between The Master-Brain and 'The Instrument of Execution'... The Phenomenon of The Deliverance Of The Dub is in present live moment. When the Reels stop - The Phenomenon is gone. Pooffff! If you catchs the above "Event" on tape - You've got the DUB RECORD!!!!

If you hear king tubby's dub they was a inexplicable warm and irie spirit. It's very simple but very dificulte at same time... the rythm and melody are basic but the sounds get with the effects make me fly away. With the dub is possible to sit down in sofa and just listen and think about this babylon system and the zion way. And with the dub is too possible to stand up and dance all the night on the drum and guitar rythm !!

So dub can help to destress and help to dance. it's make all a music can do!

And when i listen to my favourite king tubby's and augustus pablo soung i have shiver in the back... ah yes i love dub!! and Jah Rastafari!!

yeah, that's a good discussion you propose, Bird. "re-inventing the old" .... experimentation. going beyond the limits. why does a guitar have to follow guitar rules? why shouldn't it follow other rules ... percussion, bass, whatever ...? to me, just trying to re-create the sound of 70s dub is losing the philosophy of dub. dub was creative, new. play it now, but put something new into it, some kind of experiment ..... otherwise it's just 70's dub .... and not Dub (with capital D). anyways, i see it as alchemy. as real creation. freedom of movement and expression. what goes wrong becomes "right". just the way life should be seen: with a slightly more artistic eye, and seeking to employ the so-called "errors" (which in reality are not errors .... because there is no such thing as error). highly spiritual. breaking all of the rules they try to impose upon us. laughing away their so-called "science" and all their blind "scientific evidence". you look at a good dancer or an artist or poet .... look and notice that it's not a question of being "better". and neither is it a question of perfection. no, it's about feeling the flow. nothing more nothing less nothing else. perfection is not a result; the results don't count for shit. it's about the process. i could create something and be happy with it, but then a few days later be sad because it gets "destroyed" .... but i'm wasting time in that way; i'm wrongly concentrating on the result. the actual process of creation is that which counts - the spiritual side. to be sure, i ain't gonna be able to take any of my results with me when i die. that which i learn: yes. can't undo the path cleared by the soul.

Dub is all about space. To give each sound its own place. Dat why the bass often get pushed down to sub frequencies. It bubble up ya spine from di ground, forming the ground in ya conshus. Reminding you what is below. Meanwhile sharp hi-hats are cutting in thru ya ears. Feel the contrast, the space between. From the right the snare drum CLASH! then echo off to the left to the left to the left to the left... Uncaptural lightning travelling thru space and time. While the riddim carry on, take you along to a journey beyond. A voice pops up in front of yor face "Jah Jah come..." then it's gone. Appear/dissappear But not to silence as you realise you can hear it in the distance. The melody far away on the edge of your expansive conshusness. Someone is singing out there. You try to contemplate this but BOOM! the lightning flash snare returns. This time it echoes around your head. Spinning around, you try to catch it but it's gone too qwik and you feel alone. Alone in space... except the riddim is still dere, holding you to the Earth, keeping you to your own piece of the Earth. The Peace of the Earth. The pace of the Earth. The place of your birth. An organ breathes it's song in and out of phase. Trying to materialize but never making it. Is it real or is it a dream. The guitar skanks - did you imagine it? A past memory or a future thought? Dub is ephemeral. Liquid music - hard to grasp, easy to imbibe. Why? Why not make something concrete? Good Dub lets the listener dive into his/her sub-conscious to bring what is inherently Oneself to the music. Dub is a journey for the soul. And journey can not exist without space and time. And space and time are not a journey without a traveller. Dub is the path. Dub is the Way. The sonic light to brite up di nite and mek tings right.

The way I see it Dub is all about the music....nothing more nothing less, the rhythm is what moves my whole being....I think to try and philosophise dub as "reinventing the old" "constant mutation" is , for want of a better sentence, complete and unadulterated bullshit, but that's just my oinion and no disrespect is intented. Reading back over that it seems like Bird would be horribly and massivly insulted. Which is not how it was meant to seem...(in the spirit of the internet and in light of the fact that you're not gonna come to my house and batter me, I'll leave it in there). Dub as a way of thinking.....god...I just see Dub as an interpretation of something already created....like seeing a picture from a whole other angle....like if you could go back in time and see Leonardo da Vinci painting Mona Lisa from a different angle.....hmmmmm...If, say the Mona Lisa as we all know and love it was to be represented by, for example, Jacob Miller's "Baby I Love You So", and then another version of the Mona Lisa ( from the perspective of say, somebody sitting behind Leonardo to the left) would be represtented by King Tubby meets the Rockers uptown...(the single, not the album)... y'know King tubby was a genius....an electronic genius. Everyone buy the book Bass Culture (Loyyd Bradley). Its truly brilliant...

Dub Is the manipulation of musical tools and technology... It is the vibratory manifestation of the mixing artist...

Dub is technoligical improvisation... Electronic jazz created and preserved in a virtual music world... The world of audio recording... Further, when reproduced live, the world of live music production...

It is improvisation which utilizes technology to further search the realms of musical manifestation...

Dub is being in the now... The flow of the moment... and aligning it so... That it hybrids itself... Into a new form... Discovering things that were hidden within what was there... Finding that unique perception which raises the moment...

It is the recreation of harmonic resonance... Like a mathematical formula which has functioned... In this alignment, the music comes alive... It reaches toward the upper spheres of the artistic life...

Like an impressionist, the dub artist paints on an audio canvas using mixers as brushes and fx as paint... The artist preserves the moment in form... Art...

Dub music ties a music born through the rythms of the most ancient culture of people (Africa)... from a genre of music otherwise known as "The Music of the King" (reggae) with the technoligical evolution of man. It is the blending of two times, the ancient and the future... unto new forms of art, music, and experience...

Dub is quite the phenomenon... In whatever way we try to interpret it...

Dub is an art with new tech but most keep the old vibes, the vibes from the 70's that make all dance. When you hear a dub it's like see a videoclip with image that transfor, go forward and backward, crash,.... All fx transform the image... so when Dub Clip on MTV ;) it's joke surrely, i prefer hear dub in soundsystem.

I'd say that Dub is about moving in a fourth dimension somehow... moving in sound. Both when you listen to it and when you produce it... to me it always feels like I'm reaching inside a large hangar or room where the sounds are actually physical and moving. The Dub process becomes a hand or an arm witch grabs the sounds and tosses them away or just cuddles and hugs them for a while, but never taking away their movement... it's like walking about in a riot caused by creativity and look at everyone participating as one person or as a group of persons: pairs, threes, fours and armies. Everyone does the same thing: rioting, but at the same time they all do it different, thus creating a riot... I've been fascinated by Dub since I heard it for the first time... love at first echoe. Take Freedom Dub or Long Time Dub, they're fucking lovesongs... to music and to the free space that the dubsounds take for themselves.

Have you ever found yourself in the situation of liking the versions and dubs better that the actual reggae tunes they were made of? I have... it's like i said before: Dub turns these songs, sounds and fx free.

Im only 17 years old, and ever since my uncle left records behind... My big bro of 22 plays them constantly. I have therefore been recently introduced to Dub and Reggae music.

I admit, I didn't exactly pay attention to the soundz of di rythm, but the bass line just got me listening... I am now a true fan of Dub and Reggae music, and I am blessed that I have an enviouse collection of records.

As my media project, I even chose to make a music video for Gregory Isaacs- Rumours. Rumours was the first track that got me interested in the Reggae genre. However, i still contradict my self and say that Dub/Reggae music is to be heard not seen on di TV screen or music video. But I wanted to challenge my beleifs, and I failed!!!

However, I am not black, nor am I white. Yes, I am Indian. I agree with Bird in sayin that Dub music is more than just a state of mind... I would add that it is about your culture and your roots. But, that does not mean that people of other ethnic backgrounds are bound from listening to Dub/Reggae. It depends if the person understands the culture, and respects the Rastafari religion... and I do. Take a look at the following lyrics of Apache Indians, Religion. That's the exact point I'm trying to convey as far as state of mind is concerned. . . ;)

I and I respect all Religion I and I me pray to the Almighty One Me give thanks and praise fe the righteous way But me can't follow...no me can't follow one

Religion bring war and contradiction One god we have one destination Respect each other and nothing can wrong

Me say me learn bout Rama and Hari Krishna Guru Gobind Singh and the height of Allah Me look to the East and pray to Mecca Jesus Christ Christian Messiah Ina Jerusalem was born the saviour King Salassi I down a Ethiopia The conquering lion of the tribe of Judah Natty Rastafari and me pray to Jah Jah Me look and me search and me study Buddha Say nuff mon a talk bout Sai Baba God bless all mon who fight evil doer That's why the angels a fan me with the eagles feather

Apache Indian- Religion (KARMA)

I would like to apologise if I have said anything to offend anyone... Please would you "put me straight" if you agree/ disagree with my comments.

Shortly as I can, here's what I can say just for myself. I'd say: RESPECT HUMANITY and people's freedoms. Well, this is for me something very fundamental. Beliefs are part of humanity, and shall beliefs go free.

I personally disagree with statement, that religion brings war. As I see it: war is always being brought by Agressor and Opressor. Oppression means - NO FREEDOM.

I can say this: We are all ethiopians on our way home, but we just going there our own way. And if you choose not to go, but stay right where you are - you are free to do so.

A word on a subject of black and white and non-of-it Here's what I think. I don't like the idea of 'we should be color-blind'. To my understanding: being 'color-blind' means being able to see the world only in gray color of Universal Soldier uniform, and it's ugly - very ugly. I like seeing colors, because this is what the world is like: different people, different cultures, different beliefs - IT's COLORFUL, and it's sooooo beautiful.

I would also agree that without beliefs, there is not much of a quality life for us humans. I think from my eyes, I would disagree with your statement that religion does NOT bring war. However, this is your beleif and I and I respect that as I respect humanity. The reason I disagree is only because I've seen continuouse violence between two asian religions. It happens whenever the two 'religious' sides are in one place at the same time. It happened in slough (uk) the other week.. where I took a step back and realised there were two seperate sides of the crowd... and then when they interacted together, a fight broke out. So I personally would say that religion DOES bring war, as I see it with me own eyes in my community.

I think that the statement in Apache Indians lyrics about religion is actually referring to the asian community- like me he believes what he see.

Of course, seeing the world in grey is dull, sad and ugly. I would aslo say- RESPECT all cultures, be open minded- UNITE.. Y'kno? After all, a colorful world is a beutiful world!

However my point I was making in my previous message was: that specific music genres can be stereo typically linked with culture. Yeh, it's abit obviouse... Not for me though 'cause music for me, is a universal language, and no matter what ur beliefs, music is for every soul on Gods land. I would like to express my joy for finding finding Dub music...

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