Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by nelson

What about Joshua killing most of the people of Jericho because God told him to do so?

If you read the context of what you just said, and know a little about the history, you'll see that God gave those people over 400 years to repent and leave peacefully...I'd say that's ample time, wouldn't you? Especially since God made...them.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by nelson

I have. It's full of savages killing people because they thought that's what God wanted them to do

Correction. It's what THEY thought THEIR god wanted them to do. The God of the bible, was not their God, that's pretty safe to say. Let me give you a quick illustration; if you were a potter and you made something, then you wanted to make something different from that...you would have the right to do that and it would be fair, right? Apply that to this situation. You, we are not your own, whether we think you are or not, it doesnt change anything. So for you to say what's fair and what's not fair is like the creation of the potter whinning because He started over.

You prolly wont like that explanation, sounds like you already have your mind made up, but that's how God describes Himself from the book from which you're paraphrasing.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by Nitrogenb

Correction. It's what THEY thought THEIR god wanted them to do. The God of the bible, was not their God, that's pretty safe to say. Let me give you a quick illustration; if you were a potter and you made something, then you wanted to make something different from that...you would have the right to do that and it would be fair, right? Apply that to this situation. You, we are not your own, whether we think you are or not, it doesnt change anything. So for you to say what's fair and what's not fair is like the creation of the potter whinning because He started over.

So what makes your God better than their God?

You prolly wont like that explanation, sounds like you already have your mind made up, but that's how God describes Himself from the book from which you're paraphrasing.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by nelson

So what makes your God better than their God?

Are you serious? Is that a real question? Like I said, it sounds like you already have you mind made up, so anyone who says anything contrary to your hypothesis doesn't exist, or will be resisted with re-hashed, connect-the-dot response like the one you just gave. He's better, because He's the only God. Period. You want a to-the-point answer, read Psalms 14:1, then John 14:6; then think about the question you just asked.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by Nitrogenb

Are you serious? Is that a real question? Like I said, it sounds like you already have you mind made up, so anyone who says anything contrary to your hypothesis doesn't exist, or will be resisted with re-hashed, connect-the-dot response like the one you just gave. He's better, because He's the only God. Period. You want a to-the-point answer, read Psalms 14:1, then John 14:6; then think about the question you just asked.

From my point of view-- I don't believe the bible is God's word-- what makes the Bible's account more valid than the Koran?

It's funny you should quote Psalms. It's author--King David--which the Bible calls "a man with the heart of God" last words before he died where an order to take out someone... a hit.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

From my point of view-- I don't believe the bible is God's word-- what makes the Bible's account more valid than the Koran?

Well, from my point of view, I do. So where does that leave us now?

Originally Posted by nelson

It's funny you should quote Psalms. It's author--King David--which the Bible calls "a man with the heart of God" last words before he died where an order to take out someone... a hit.

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're referring to Joab, are you not? If you aren't, I apologize and feel free to correct me. You are referencing 1 Kings 2:29-34 where David commands Solomon to have Joab killed. Well to start this off, Joab was King David's right hand man. Joab first took vengeance into his own hands by killing David's son Absalom against the king's will; second of all he killed Abner against the kings will; he then proceeded yet again to kill, this time it being King David's nephew, Amasa. Unless you or I lived at the time of David, we have no idea how their justice system worked. I'm sure it is nothing like any type of goverment we have today, but I am pretty sure it had some form of capital punishment. You want to know a key difference between David and Joab though? Unlike Joab, David was truly torremted and genuinely repentive of his sins, and faced his consequences like a man.

But I know what you're probably thinking; "Well why didn't David get the death penalty or much worse? He slept with his commanders wife and even fatherd a child, then he placed that commander on the front lines of battle to get murdered." Ah, but David did get punished Nelson. First off he lived in fear of death for the rest of his life from Saul and his own son Absalom, second his family was torn apart by David's deceit, then his kingdom was divided and taken from him. There are worse things than death Nelson.

I respect other people's beliefs, but I don't have to agree with them to respect their rights to believe what they want. If you're going to quote something, please reference the context of the situation next time, that's all I'm saying.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by nelson

"a man with the heart of God."

It's actually, "A Man after God's own heart." You know why God called him that? Because even after David messed up ROYALLY (no pun intended), he was still willing to humble himself, admit it and accept his punishment and consequences. He still sought after God and wanted to do God's will in his life EVEN AFTER he totally screwed up. David had a hunger to serve God like none other. THAT'S why God said that, not because David had people killed.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Your point of view is not back up by any evidence. Have we scientifically received a message that says that God faxed over the 10 commandments to Moses?

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and assume you're referring to Joab, are you not? If you aren't, I apologize and feel free to correct me. You are referencing 1 Kings 2:29-34 where David commands Solomon to have Joab killed.

No. Read verses 8 & 9. It was Shimei. His crime? He told David to fuck off.

Unlike Joab, David was truly torremted and genuinely repentive of his sins, and faced his consequences like a man.

Actually, David, like most politicians in power, only faced their mistakes because they got caught.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

The Bible is God's Holy Word, the Koran is not, that is why the Bible is valid.

I enjoy discussing theology, but I don't believe you can hold so tightly to a truth that you insist it be someone else's as well.

No matter which religious book is read, be it the King James version of the bible or the Koran, no two people come away with the same meaning.

Understanding the ways of others is critical to our future. However, there is also a phrase called "lost in translation" which began when man first attempted to understand what was being presented to them by whomever -- whether it was Moses, Muhammad, or G-d directly. Man is flawed -- he doesn't even stop and ask for directions, so I doubt he'd ask G-d if he understood what was being conveyed, and he's too arrogant to think he got it wrong in the first place.

Nelson, if you get that IP addy, it may have me breaking a commandment -- the tenth.

The one truth I do hold to 100% is that of free will -- we all have it. What we choose to do with it is another tale.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by nelson

Your point of view is not back up by any evidence. Have we scientifically received a message that says that God faxed over the 10 commandments to Moses?

Neither does yours. You cling to evolution, right? I'm just assuming, so again, if I'm wrong correct me please. You show me one scientifically proved fact that backs evolution. It's called faith. Whether you like it or not, it takes just as much, if not more faith to believe evolution THEORY, than it does Creation. Were you there when the first land animal crawled on land and walked into the nearest Starbucks? Ok, thought not. It's called faith.

Originally Posted by nelson

No. Read verses 8 & 9. It was Shimei. His crime? He told David to f*** off.

Again, would appreciate it if you include the context. Shimei was Saul's descendant or close family friend from the house of Saul. Saul was the one who spent his ENTIRE life pursuing David to kill him because he was jealous. Even before David had Uriah murdered and slept with Uriah's wife, Saul hated him for being blessed of God. You are right though; Shimei didn't pull punches and was cursing at David calling him a man of bloodshed. His claim was unfounded though. Keep in mind, since it seems you know a lot about the life of David; David had been in a position about 2-3 times where he had Saul’s life in his hands and could've killed Saul for him hunting David his whole life; but he didn't, he spared Saul's life because he didn't want to kill someone that God had set in power. *Side note: David later had the man executed who killed Saul by the way, David's arch enemy; and adopted Sauls grandson into his own family. And correction, it wasn't David who killed Shimei, it was Solomon, David's son. Even though Shimei antagonized David for days and nights, David never avenged it. Shimei later begged for forgiveness for David for the way he had acted (2 Samuel 19:15-23).

Originally Posted by nelson

Actually, David, like most politicians in power, only faced their mistakes because they got caught.

You might want to read over David's story again, think you might have missed some stuff. David was king; he could've had whatever he wanted. But, he was found out, repented and took his hits like a man. God blessed David by using his lineage to bring forth Jesus, and having his son build the temple. I think it's very evident that he wasn't just another politician who was sorry "cause he got caught."

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by Beej

I enjoy discussing theology, but I don't believe you can hold so tightly to a truth that you insist it be someone else's as well.

I agree. You can only present people with the facts of what you have, so they can't make their own decisions. I'm not about pushing my religion down someone's throat. If they want to follow my God, the God of the Bible, then that's their choice; my only obligation as a Christina is to share what I have learned and how it's changed my life. I think you can do that intellegently without being ignorant or debasing to someone else's beliefs, not saying you or Nelson are .

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Originally Posted by Nitrogenb

Neither does yours.

I'm not the one claiming the Quija board is a satanic instrument that predicts fates.

You cling to evolution, right? I'm just assuming, so again, if I'm wrong correct me please. You show me one scientifically proved fact that backs evolution. It's called faith. Whether you like it or not, it takes just as much, if not more faith to believe evolution THEORY, than it does Creation. Were you there when the first land animal crawled on land and walked into the nearest Starbucks? Ok, thought not. It's called faith.

This just shows your typical evangelical ignorance of evolution. The theory of gravity is "just" a theory, but I dare you to jump of the Empire State building without a parachute. Such goes scientific theories.

When Darwin set out to test evolution, he proposed 2 things: that biological entities adapt to their environments (survival of the fittest) and that they past these traits to their offspring. Both were proved. Evolution happens every day as we speak. The H5N1 virus adapts and becomes more resistant to anti-virus. Don't you see or refuse to see?

Re: PD to do Ouija?

I'm not the one claiming the Quija board is a satanic instrument that predicts fates.

I said nothing of a Ouija board, so you might want to check my replies again.

Originally Posted by nelson

This just shows your typical evangelical ignorance of evolution. The theory of gravity is "just" a theory, but I dare you to jump of the Empire State building without a parachute. Such goes scientific theories.

Wow, evangelical ignorance. That's some pretty strong words directed towards someone you know nothing about. And the last time I checked, gravity is pretty much proven, I don't know anyone who is calling it a theory.

Originally Posted by nelson

When Darwin set out to test evolution, he proposed 2 things: that biological entities adapt to their environments (survival of the fittest) and that they past these traits to their offspring. Both were proved. Evolution happens every day as we speak. The H5N1 virus adapts and becomes more resistant to anti-virus. Don't you see or refuse to see?

Of course adaptation has been proven, I'll give you that. But there's a difference between adaptation within a species, and evolution into an entirely different species. There has not been one viable transitioning fossil found that would link one species to another; that's all I'm saying. Evolutionists get so angry and offended that anyone would challenge their stance, while all we are trying to do is provide a table for civil discussion. Your theory sounds just as silly, if not more, than what you think Creation sounds like. To me, it's simple; no gaps, no glaring contradictions, everything is laid out exactly how I believe it happened. So, Don't I see? Yes, I see very clearly. I see that it takes the same amount, if not less faith, to believe that God created us, than it does to believe that a series of genetic mutations were passed on from generation to generation over billions of years to produce us. That I do see.

Re: PD to do Ouija?

Reminds me of the time someone anonymously filled a guestbook to the coordinators of an Ethiopian Exhibit showcasing some of the earliest known human ancestors, with creationism messages.

Awe, poor Lucy... Dude, talk Dead Sea Scrolls to me. Did the exhibit also have stuff like the pottery inkwell and lamp from Qumran? What about the copper scroll -- real or fiction?

Anybody want to discuss the book of Enoch? Anasazi Indians? The pyramids in Egypt and Mexico... no?

" Then Moses called Eleazar son of Aaron and Joshua son of Nun and said to them, 'Speak all these words to the people...:

Be still, O Israel, and hear! This day shall you become the people of G-d, your G-d. You shall keep My laws and My testimonies and My commandments which I command you to keep this day. And when you cross the Jordan so that I may give you great and good cities, and houses filled with all pleasant things, and vines and olives which you have not planted, and wells which you have not dug, beware, when you have eaten and are full, that your hearts be not lifted up, and that you do not forget what I have commanded you to do this day. For it is this that will bring you life and length of days.' "

I don't have issue with G-d, it's man kind that presents the problems. I believe in evolution, and G-d -- something started the whole kit and kaboodle. Did it all happen exactly as written? Ever hear of creative license? If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage... dang writers.