I erm work in the erm pharmaceutical industry. It's not like some sort of secret you know.

Louis

Likely story.

--------------"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Nobody who is spouting off their opinion on this (or any other) specific tenure case knows what they are talking about. He's got pubs? Then it wasn't about that. ISU is a research-intensive institution and my guess is he did not obtain sufficient external funding. Yes, that's enough--it happened to me! Alternatively, the very fact that petitions against him have been circulated is enough of a reason to deny him based on collegiality criteria. Even if an institution has hard & fast black & white criteria for tenure, there's always a little weaseling room in the wording to permit the denial of total assholes etc.

If you haven't already done so, see Ed's blog for a good discussion of this, with some very apropos remarks about just how arbitrary the awarding or not rewarding of tenure often/usually is.

Even Heddle says some sensible things:

Quote

One comment: as Sean Carrol's experience points out, tenure always, or almost always, has a political component, and that very well may have played a part on Gonzalez's case. We may never know, because there is enough linguistic wiggle-room in any tenure decision and committee report (And believe me I know, I once served on and chaired the university faculty committee that was the stage before the provost in tenure decisions) to obfuscate political motivations by committee members. A committee member who wants to derail a candidacy need only say things like "I don't think this candidate's track record on acquiring grants is promising enough to award tenure" even when he really means "I don't like this guy" for whatever reason.

And in a sense the ID community, as it always does, will suffer for the ineptitude of its leadership. For given that they see conspiracies with greater ease than John Birchers saw commies, they have desensitized everyone to any future claim of ID discrimination. With Gonzalez, who is by leaps and bounds the best of the marquis IDers, it will be hard for them to champion his case simply because they cry wolf too often.

Tenure is a brutal process, no one denies that. Whether it's a Grand Atheist Conspiracy, as many IDers automatically assume (and as ROB thinks is 'clear'), is a different question.

--------------"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Dr. Dr. Dembski wrote:If I ever became the president of a university (per impossibile), I would dissolve the biology department and divide the faculty with tenure that I couldn’t get rid of into two new departments: those who know engineering and how it applies to biological systems would be assigned to the new “Department of Biological Engineering”; the rest, and that includes the evolutionists, would be consigned to the new “Department of Nature Appreciation” (didn’t Darwin think of himself as a naturalist?).

This whole IDist business of righteous indignation about Gonzalez is a mixture of unwitting projection and bitter jealousy.

--------------Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

Thank you for leading a university that has to courage to stand up for the separation of church and state and deny tenure to an idiot like Guillermo Gonzalez. “Privileged Planet” my gluteus maximus! He made Iowa State a laughing stock – now maybe he can seek tenure at a more suitable environment… like Liberty University.

Thanks again for the truly “intelligent” decision!

--------------Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

Thank you for leading a university that has to courage to stand up for the separation of church and state and deny tenure to an idiot like Guillermo Gonzalez. “Privileged Planet” my gluteus maximus! He made Iowa State a laughing stock – now maybe he can seek tenure at a more suitable environment… like Liberty University.

Thanks again for the truly “intelligent” decision!

Thank you for demonstrating the lack of native intelligence of the opposition.

I find it hilarious that a person who's published nothing (Robert) regularly insults anti-ID people for not publishing enough.

I am surrounded by people who have impressive publication records in mathematics and statistics, and they are my measuring stick.

My point remains unchanged.

--------------"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

--------------"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

I would have made it a Monthly Award Nomination, if it had a rugby reference in it...

Go Cats!

Are you a fan of the mighty mighty Leicester Tigers also?

All I can say is 44 to 16. We've got Wasps this weekend for the Heineken Cup, and if we play like we did on Saturday, we'll bloody murder 'em.

Louis

P.S. For those of an unfortunately foreign disposition (you have my pity for losing life's great lottery and not being born an Englishman) The Leicester Tigers are a rugby union team who have won 2 of the three tournaments that it is possible to win this season We are the best club in the UK and if all goes well this weekend, the best club in Europe.

Yes, Carroll was denied tenure at the University of Chicago. He moved to CalTech without instigating an email campaign about how he'd been robbed or otherwise showing anything but some disappointment that the UoC thing didn't work out.

Yes, Carroll was denied tenure at the University of Chicago. He moved to CalTech without instigating an email campaign about how he'd been robbed or otherwise showing anything but some disappointment that the UoC thing didn't work out.

I'm not sure that Dr. Gonzalez has instigated such an e-mail campaign but I do not fault him if he has. People who are wronged should not roll over.

A friend of mine was turned down for tenure when the department had no money for any promotions. But, they handled it by "alowing" him to withdraw from review. 2 years later with a better $$ picture, he was alowed to "resume" the process. He 1) had not raised a fuss, 2) had received other offers, and was given tenure.

When I was confronted with tenure- I quit. I could not stand the idea of staying in Georgia anymore. I could not stand dealing with medical students anymore. I was even tired of crazy sick people (by far the better part of the deal).

--------------"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

If you haven't already done so, see Ed's blog for a good discussion of this, with some very apropos remarks about just how arbitrary the awarding or not rewarding of tenure often/usually is.

What could Brayton ever know about tenure? He is not eligable, never considered, and never will be.

Gack gack ptuie. Heddle did have a sensible comment. I was rejected for tenure at one college the same year I cleared the same amount of grant $$ as my salary, received the board of trustee's "Commendation for Excellence" and was named "Teacher of the Year." I was told that a single tenured faculty member stopped the application by claiming I "was not very collegal." Translated that means I objected to his habit of giving good grades for blow-jobs.

Sure there is a personality aspect. Anybody here work in any large companies?

Edited by Dr.GH on May 14 2007,21:59

--------------"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

P.S. For those of an unfortunately foreign disposition (you have my pity for losing life's great lottery and not being born an Englishman) [snip, snip, blahbiddy blah]We are the best club in the UK and if all goes well this weekend, the best club in Europe.