It's ok Upa, all those arts will soon dissapear. MMA is getting more and more credibility. Meanwhile all those arts are deteriorating into utter garbage.

Ten years ago I used to go to a good TKD class. We had a punching bag, did full contact (not olympic or point) sparring, and only learned one form per belt level. Also the instructors back then were a marvel to watch.

Nowadays you have TKD classes with obese or old instructors that are barley Brown Belt level in skill yet hold a BB. Students are bogged down in learning two forms so they can be part of both orginizations. Then there's crappy one steps for countering a long winded punch thrown from a front stance. Even the most credible TKD schools teach olympic point sparring (which everyone knows is utter crap for self defense).

And no I'm not trying to fix TKD. There's no way to fix it in the first place. The people in charge are the ones that have "done it for over 30 years", not the ones that are the most profecient in their art. Maybe if you had a time machine or something or an immortality serum.

* by heard I mean : standing on the mats blinking blankly @ a young (16 or 17 years old ) TKD black belt who was "leading" the hapkido class while my old instructor was away ...

** by heard I mean EVER even in print made as a sarcastic comment to ride along with the kicking people off horses thing ... where the hell did you find that line of Bullshit ?

I came from a very traditional "our master learned to kick from the mysic monk of the misty mountiantop" school of hapkido, and while I was told that flying side kicks where to kick people off horses I have never heard of round kicks for breaking horses' legs. Where DID you get that? Seriously, I wanna know.