Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_thread?p_l_id=&threadId=18408285 Bhavatanha and VibhavatanhaSun, 07 Jun 2020 09:26:13 GMT2020-06-07T09:26:13ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18497292 <div class="quote-title">Konstantin Freiberg:</div><div class="quote"><div class="quote-content">It does seem to matter if one finds nonexistence preferrable to existence for, as I don&#039;t believe in rebirth, there is a possibility to get out of existence. I think that&#039;s why my mind won&#039;t drop the question: It may not be redundant thought. </div></div><br />There is no such thing as rebirth/reincarnation. <br /><br />Existence means &#034;<strong>I </strong>exist&#034;. Non-existence means &#034;<strong>I </strong>won&#039;t exist&#034;. Its all about the &#034;<strong>I</strong>&#034;. <br /><br /><img alt="emoticon" src="https://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/huh.gif" >Mon, 03 Feb 2020 01:00:16 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18497292Nicky2020-02-03T01:00:16ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18493697 <div class="quote-title">Konstantin Freiberg:</div><div class="quote"><div class="quote-content">I am wondering how you guys relate to the question of existence being worthwhile vs. existence being unworthwhile. My mind keeps on coming back to thinking there is no meaning to life, but a bunch of pain (and suffering, which I hope one can eliminate), so why bother at all? Even when I feel well and tend my mind toward this question there comes no good answer. I am especially wondering how those with the higher stages of awakening may relate. </div></div><br />This seems fairly normal. You&#039;re trying to reconcile with the first and second of the four noble truths perhaps unknowingly. I would therefore direct the momentum of this curiosity towards those truths but do so consciously, mindfully. It will spread out the momentum and maybe defuse the need to know conceptually. However, sometimes we have to explore these things on an intellectual level and come to understand for ourselves the futility in such a task. In doing this we discover a most perplexing paradox that mind is the source of that very suffering. Maybe you need to do a few more rounds with yourself before the knockout finally comes. There are many rounds but one eventually learns to stand down and stop fighting.<br /><br />This is suffering<br />This is the origin of suffering<br />This is the cessation of suffering<br />This is the way leading to the cessation of suffering.Sun, 02 Feb 2020 20:29:12 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18493697Bardo2020-02-02T20:29:12ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18492888 <div class="quote"><div class="quote-content"><span style="color: #111111">I guess buddhism screams that this assumption is not true, right?<br /></span></div></div><span style="color: #111111"><br /><img alt="emoticon" src="https://www.dharmaoverground.org/dho-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif" ><br /><br /></span>Sun, 02 Feb 2020 20:03:27 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18492888Chris Marti2020-02-02T20:03:27ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18492876 <div class="quote-title">Chris Marti:</div><div class="quote"><div class="quote-content"><div class="quote"><div class="quote-content"><span style="color: #111111">My mind keeps on coming back to thinking there is no meaning to life...<br /></span></div></div><span style="color: #111111"><br />Your mind will always try to do stuff like that. One question Buddhism asks you to try to find the answer to is, &#034;Why do I believe that having some over-arching meaning to my life is necessary?&#034; Why does having a meaning (which you probably won&#039;t pay all that much attention to) make such a huge difference? Or does it? Why can&#039;t life be what it is - a series of moments stacked on each other, each with its own import, stemming from the chaotic interplay of the forces around us all?<br /><br /><br /></span></div></div><br /><br />After reading this post again, this came to my mind (which was a relief!), that, let&#039;s say there is/was a meaning, what is that meaning? &#034;That meaning&#034; itself is empty and meaningless! I guess the assumption behind looking for meaning, is that probably we assume that there is something (a meaning) that is not empty. I guess buddhism screams that this assumption is not true, right?Sun, 02 Feb 2020 19:45:02 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18492876Siavash2020-02-02T19:45:02ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18491989 I&#039;m urging you to explore that deeply.Sun, 02 Feb 2020 19:09:07 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18491989Chris Marti2020-02-02T19:09:07ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18491983 It does seem to matter if one finds nonexistence preferrable to existence for, as I don&#039;t believe in rebirth, there is a possibility to get out of existence. I think that&#039;s why my mind won&#039;t drop the question: It may not be redundant thought. Sun, 02 Feb 2020 19:05:49 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18491983Konstantin Freiberg2020-02-02T19:05:49ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18468250 <div class="quote"><div class="quote-content"><span style="color: #111111">My mind keeps on coming back to thinking there is no meaning to life...<br /></span></div></div><span style="color: #111111"><br />Your mind will always try to do stuff like that. One question Buddhism asks you to try to find the answer to is, &#034;Why do I believe that having some over-arching meaning to my life is necessary?&#034; Why does having a meaning (which you probably won&#039;t pay all that much attention to) make such a huge difference? Or does it? Why can&#039;t life be what it is - a series of moments stacked on each other, each with its own import, stemming from the chaotic interplay of the forces around us all?<br /><br /><br /></span>Sat, 01 Feb 2020 16:03:42 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18468250Chris Marti2020-02-01T16:03:42ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18463831 Yes, there is really no meaning to life. It is just generation after generation of reproduction, working, eating, struggling, etc. For example, the Buddhist scriptures report Gotama lost intoxication with life when he was living in the palaces, here: <a href="https&#x3a;&#x2f;&#x2f;www&#x2e;accesstoinsight&#x2e;org&#x2f;tipitaka&#x2f;an&#x2f;an03&#x2f;an03&#x2e;038&#x2e;than&#x2e;html">https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.038.than.html<br /><br /></a>However, when <strong>self-view</strong> or <strong>self-reference</strong> ends in the mind, the dilemma ceases; the suffering ceases. T<span style="color: #111111">he higher stages of awakening means the ending of self-view or self-reference. In fact, the word &#034;bhava&#034; refers to &#034;<strong>self-identity</strong>&#034;. &#034;Bhava&#034; does not mean &#034;life&#034; or &#034;physical existence&#034;. &#034;Bhava&#034; means the sense or feeling &#034;<strong>I exist</strong>&#034;. Its all about &#034;ego&#034;. <br /><br /></span><div class="quote"><div class="quote-content"><span style="color: #111111"><span style="font-family: Verdana&#x2c;&#x20;Arial&#x2c;&#x20;sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 16px">The craving that makes for further becoming &#x2014; accompanied by passion &amp; delight, relishing now here &amp; now there &#x2014; i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This, friend Visakha, is the origination of <strong>self-identification</strong> described by the Blessed One.<br /><br /></span></span></span><a href="https&#x3a;&#x2f;&#x2f;www&#x2e;accesstoinsight&#x2e;org&#x2f;tipitaka&#x2f;mn&#x2f;mn&#x2e;044&#x2e;than&#x2e;html">https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.044.than.html</a><span style="color: #111111"><span style="font-family: Verdana&#x2c;&#x20;Arial&#x2c;&#x20;sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 16px"></span></span></span></div></div>Sat, 01 Feb 2020 10:51:16 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18463831Nicky2020-02-01T10:51:16ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18409215 A purely intellectual attack will not work. That&#039;s like treading water in the middle of the ocean. Meditation and its sister methods are life buoys to get outside the context in which those questions are asked.Wed, 29 Jan 2020 21:13:59 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18409215Milo2020-01-29T21:13:59ZRE: Bhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18409162 (Not an awakened one here!)<br /><br />But I have spent a long time with those questions and looking for a meaning in life to make it bearable, and often I have come to this conclusion that I should not pay much attention to these questions. Often they are a result of overthinking and are not helpful.<br /><br />On the other hand, what makes life worth living for me (and I guess it should be the same for many others), is the curiosity and the joy of discovery. Always there are many things to learn and discover that keeps the curiosity active and fulfilled in this mysterious life and world, and if there aren&#039;t enough interesting things to be curious about, then probably some changes in life style is needed.Wed, 29 Jan 2020 20:30:49 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18409162Siavash2020-01-29T20:30:49ZBhavatanha and Vibhavatanhahttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18408284 I am wondering how you guys relate to the question of existence being worthwhile vs. existence being unworthwhile. My mind keeps on coming back to thinking there is no meaning to life, but a bunch of pain (and suffering, which I hope one can eliminate), so why bother at all? Even when I feel well and tend my mind toward this question there comes no good answer. I am especially wondering how those with the higher stages of awakening may relate. Wed, 29 Jan 2020 20:08:09 GMThttps://www.dharmaoverground.org/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=&messageId=18408284Konstantin Freiberg2020-01-29T20:08:09Z