Well, you may not like Dylan´s voice, or his songs. But obviously he is one of the great rock icons. GG´s comment is one of the strangest I´ve read on this board. If Dylan is not a rock artist, then what is he? Dylan isn´t just about "Blowing In The Wind" and "The Times They Are A-Changing", I don´t care much for those songs either. What about his country albums, or his gospel albums? Dylan was never a hippie or a communist if that´s what you think - reading biographies about him, he comes across as someone living the life of a withdrawn but rather conservative family man more than anything. OK, enough about Dylan from me, I just felt I had to come to the man´s defense here!

Sorry about that Piers, didn't want to take credit for that, but just want to share it with the Elvis world, BTW I copied that article from another ELVIS MB.

Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:54 pm

OK,got ya now....cheers.

Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:56 pm

Hav-A-Tampa wrote:Well, you may not like Dylan´s voice, or his songs. But obviously he is one of the great rock icons. GG´s comment is one of the strangest I´ve read on this board. If Dylan is not a rock artist, then what is he? Dylan isn´t just about "Blowing In The Wind" and "The Times They Are A-Changing", I don´t care much for those songs either. What about his country albums, or his gospel albums? Dylan was never a hippie or a communist if that´s what you think - reading biographies about him, he comes across as someone living the life of a withdrawn but rather conservative family man more than anything. OK, enough about Dylan from me, I just felt I had to come to the man´s defense here!

Dylan is a Folk Poet

there ain't a rockin' bone in his body.

sick of hearing about what a f*** genius he was blah blah

He DOES NOT ROCK

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:14 pm

Hav-a-tampa -

You wrote:

GG´s comment is one of the strangest I´ve read on this board

Oh, take no notice, all his posts are a bit like that !

Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:23 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:

Hav-A-Tampa wrote:Well, you may not like Dylan´s voice, or his songs. But obviously he is one of the great rock icons. GG´s comment is one of the strangest I´ve read on this board. If Dylan is not a rock artist, then what is he? Dylan isn´t just about "Blowing In The Wind" and "The Times They Are A-Changing", I don´t care much for those songs either. What about his country albums, or his gospel albums? Dylan was never a hippie or a communist if that´s what you think - reading biographies about him, he comes across as someone living the life of a withdrawn but rather conservative family man more than anything. OK, enough about Dylan from me, I just felt I had to come to the man´s defense here!

Dylan is a Folk Poet

there ain't a rockin' bone in his body.

sick of hearing about what a f*** genius he was blah blah

He DOES NOT ROCK

I am in no way knocking Dylan, but I have to agree with G.G., how can anybody call him a rock star.

Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:34 pm

Elvis came from a dirt-poor background.

But he was always seeking to improve himself.

He was no fool.

He lacked any great educational qualifications, but made up for this in his constant quest for intellectual self-improvement.

Not an easy task surrounded by those "good ol' boys".

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:17 am

Joe Car wrote: I am in no way knocking Dylan, but I have to agree with G.G., how can anybody call him a rock star.

right Joe.

Dylan is not a rock star

He and that Peter Paul & Mary "Puff The Magic Dragon" crap is not rock-n-roll. Never was!

The original early 1960s record buyers/concert attendees that launched Dylan's career were college beatnicks who regarded Pop and Rock-n-Roll as PIMPLE MUSIC - teeny sophomoric, crude and silly.
Folk/Dylan fans were oh so sophisticated, mature and esoteric.

It's a crime to blend it all together 40 years later and say that it's ALL rock music, and all worthy of RnRHOF.

imo, it is not.

Let a f*rt and it too will be....blowin' in the wind

Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:27 pm

ColinB wrote:Elvis came from a dirt-poor background.

But he was always seeking to improve himself.

He was no fool.

He lacked any great educational qualifications, but made up for this in his constant quest for intellectual self-improvement.

Not an easy task surrounded by those "good ol' boys".

Hi Colin. Did you mean to post this in Maurice's thread on Elvis's intellectual development? If not, please disregard as my misunderstanding.

Eileen

Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:

Joe Car wrote: I am in no way knocking Dylan, but I have to agree with G.G., how can anybody call him a rock star.

right Joe.

Dylan is not a rock star

He and that Peter Paul & Mary "Puff The Magic Dragon" crap is not rock-n-roll. Never was!

The original early 1960s record buyers/concert attendees that launched Dylan's career were college beatnicks who regarded Pop and Rock-n-Roll as PIMPLE MUSIC - teeny sophomoric, crude and silly. Folk/Dylan fans were oh so sophisticated, mature and esoteric.

It's a crime to blend it all together 40 years later and say that it's ALL rock music, and all worthy of RnRHOF.

imo, it is not.

Let a f*rt and it too will be....blowin' in the wind

There's a world of difference between Blowin in the Wind and Like a Rollin' Stone though. Also, Dylan wasn't nearly as pretentious as many of his followers. He was the first to shout down any suggestions that he was some kind of musical saviour and the first to correct often ludicrously overblown interpretations of what his songs meant. Don't confuse the man with his fans.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:46 pm

What is "rock" ?

If rock is rock then is folk rock the same as punk rock ?

pacer wrote:Nice article but a little supprised by this. I am aware that, as we all are, that Elvis was a big influence on McCartney but I thought his favourite artist of all time was Buddy Holly...? I am sure I have heard him say this on many occasions over the years.

I always thought Buddy was Pauls favourite songwriting artist of all time.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:00 pm

Eileen -

Well spotted !

No idea how that post ended up on this thread !

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:11 pm

I liked that Paul quote on "Heartbreak Hotel," and have an extra copy of the terrific all-Elvis issue of UNCUT from this summer
if someone wants to
swap for it. (Most Americans will have missed this UK-mag...)

GG, your dismissal of Bob Dylan is your personal taste, but to define him outside of rock (especially once he plugged in) is ludicrous. Nevermind
that rock'n'roll encompasses doo wop, blues and pop elements, namely
ballads like "Love Me Tender" that don't rock in the head-banging
sense you suggest.

And methinks you ought to take a look at the new PBS documentary
on Dylan's undeniable wish to "rock" -going against the very folkie purists you
moronically throw him in with. The documentary makes plain that
he was a rockin' rebel of sorts, at least by then. And by the way,
he,too, loved Elvis. You have to give him some begrudging respect
for his ultra-cool compliments about Elvis.

I want to say it nicely but it looks like you need to know more about
him before you kick his legacy to the curb, and I'm not even that big
of a fan.

Rock is a big tent. If you make it smaller, be ready for those who want
to define Elvis out of it.

By the way, I've never seen those Gleason /Elvis shots, or at least not
recently! Jackie was into "Big Band" stuff and "mood music" and dabbled in
"conducting" of a sort. It's a generational thing as with Sinatra. He
was a good egg as he'd say and I'm sure he respected Elvis' ultimate
show-biz success with time.

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote: GG, your dismissal of Bob Dylan is your personal taste, but to define him outside of rock (especially once he plugged in) is ludicrous. Nevermindthat rock'n'roll encompasses doo wop, blues and pop elements, namelyballads like "Love Me Tender" that don't rock in the head-bangingsense you suggest.

And methinks you ought to take a look at the new PBS documentaryon Dylan's undeniable wish to "rock" -going against the very folkie purists youmoronically throw him in with. The documentary makes plain thathe was a rockin' rebel of sorts, at least by then. And by the way,he,too, loved Elvis. You have to give him some begrudging respectfor his ultra-cool compliments about Elvis.

I want to say it nicely but it looks like you need to know more abouthim before you kick his legacy to the curb, and I'm not even that bigof a fan.

Rock is a big tent. If you make it smaller, be ready for those who wantto define Elvis out of it.

Oh, Elvis is inside the ROCK TENT
He's rockin' the Rock Tent

but not everything he sang was rock.

I.e. '"Love Me Tender", for example, is not Rock-n-Roll.

Just because 2 million teenage girls bought copies of it, to push it to #1, doesn't make it part of his Rock Canon.

-----

I for one have specific criteria of what Rovk Music is, anbd what a Rock Star is.

and it's a serious castration of the rock animal to regard Love Me Tender and Puff The Magic Dragon and Blowin in The Wind as Rock.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:34 pm

Yeah, but he was rock'n'roll personified. So too with Chuck Berry
when he did "Havana Moon" or when Little Richard did "Send Me Some
Lovin' " or when Fats Domino did say, "Walkin' To New Orleans."

Elvis didn't stop being the "King of Rock'n'Roll" and all that embodied back
then when he tackled "Peace In the Valley" or "Don't."

I think that's a serious misreading of the genre. It was not just
structure of the music (the 12 bars or the beat) but the social and cultural
level that rock embodied.

It was a "youth revolution" and each era's youth effectively remakes
what is rock. I agree the term can get too flexible.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:38 pm

A Rocker can perform something that does not rock.

But I do find it hard to fathom that Dylan could perform something that does rock.

It would take a radical revamping of his material to achieve a rock song.

"It Ain't Me Babe" as done by The Association comes close.

"All Along The Watchtower" as done by Jimi ---

but Dylan himself is over-rated.

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:41 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:A Rocker can perform something that does not rock.

But I do find it hard to fathom that Dylan could perform something that does rock.

It would take a radical revamping of his material to achieve a rock song.

"It Ain't Me Babe" as done by The Association comes close.

"All Along The Watchtower" as done by Jimi ---

but Dylan himself is over-rated.

Well, again, you're letting personal taste (or distaste) get in the way
of evaluating Dylan's rock lineage. The scene where he "plugs in"
and does "Like A Rolling Stone" live (upsetting some of the folkie purists
in the audience) and can be heard telling his band defiantly
"play it loud!" is totally rock, even by definition musically.

I'm not a big Tom Petty fan (himself a Dylan disciple) but he's rock.

I'm not a big Kiss fan (not at all) but they, too, are rock.

That I could have lived without either doesn't change that.

*******************************************

And hate Dylan or think he's overrated, but the guy said
he cryed for a week
when Elvis died or something to that effect.

Re: PAUL McCARTNEY ON - `Heartbreak Hotel' -UNCUT MAGAZINE

Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:51 pm

Funnily enough, I ended up owning the double-bass that Bill Black played on "Heartbreak Hotel." I used it when we recorded "Free As A Bird". Linda bought the bass for me as a present. We knew this guy in Nashville who knew Bill Black's family. At that point, Bill had died and the bass was sitting in his barn. They didn't know what to do with it. So Linda got hold of it.

Actually the bass was bought and owned by Mike Leech in 62. Mike played on Elvis' American Sound sessions later in Memphis. It was in his attic, not a barn until it was sold to Paul/Linda.

I always get this image in my head... Elvis driving his Lincoln down the interstate on a clear night in Tennessee. The stars are twinkling. The air is balmy. They're on their way to a show, Bill Black and Scotty Moore in the back, with Bill's double-bass strapped to the car roof. And now that bass belongs to me. It's my link to "Heartbreak Hotel".

To complete the image, picture Scotty driving the Lincoln (Cosmopolitan) with the bass strapped to the roof in the middle of the night down some old dirt road enroute to another show. All of a sudden an old farmer in a truck pulls out in front of them and they crash. The bass goes flying over head and on down the dirt road in the dark. Elvis and Scotty jump out of the car to check on the farmer, who's all right but then they hear out of the darkness the thumping of the dog house bass. Bill ran out to check on that. Paul was concerned about transporting it to NY in the belly of a plane when he recorded with Scotty in NY. Scotty had to laugh thinking if it had survived that it would've survived the plane trip.