Reply to Terrafirma

Hi Terrafirma,

I think the email alerts die after a certain length of time without an entry. Recently I logged on to see what had happened and saw a few new entries. I get the email alerts again now that I've contributed again.... it's a pity the people interested in the past aren't getting notice something has moved again.

Thanx 4 your encouragement about clear arguments. It's been something of a team effort I think. I get ideas also from the other threads.

Mr P (now PDA I think) has made his real name and address known to Malcolm as a result of my questions to Malcolm and offered to visit him personally.

I don't want to get drawn in on a personal level for various reasons. I do want to see a major org / press take it up, or an individual motivated give themselves to sorting it out. That individual isn't me tho - I've other stuff I'm prioritizing. I think it's a question of enough 'chipping away' until someone does.

Maybe Mr P (PDA) would consider chasing Malcolm a bit now, and repeating my questions as well as his own good questions? Keeping the pressure on Malcolm would seem wise. For example - there's been enough time now so that Angela and TA should have come back to Malcolm.

I'd guess Angela might say, 'I never checked but I trust him'. I guess(?) that the snake passage was given to her as a whole(?) by TA.

TA is, sadly, unlikely to come up with the definitive goods, on past response. In which case Malcolm should press.

Maybe the new owners, when they see the unanswered questions which are being repeatedly asked, will decide to suspend printing /selling. I think keeping up pressure - pressing for responses, not letting a lot of water go under the bridge is a way ahead - but I'm cut out from getting a response from Malcolm. Others are not tho... it's a pity they may not be aware he has offered to find answers if asked... I've emailed the site admin to ask if there's any way old contributors can be told the thread is moving again [doing my bit - smile]

If you stop visiting bullshido the notifications stop, once you visit again, then you will get one update for any new replies, and if you revisit will continue to get them until you stop, that seems to be how it works.

Taming the Paper Tiger

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and a real latecomer to this thread. I'm a Christian who has been appalled lately because some friends from UK and and Australia, who've been influenced by fundamentalists, started worrying that the devil might get me because I practice martial arts. One of them suggested I read Taming The Tiger. Having a background in comparative religious studies, I'm researching for an essay that should put an end to such idiocy. In the process I came to the Tiger book, and was instantly appalled after the first few pages. I'm still in the research phase, but I couldn't resist writing a review of Tiger on Amazon. I'll paste it below, in case it's of interest.

(BTW, anti-martial arts fundamentalists claim that chi (or qi) is a satanic/demonic force. But it's root actually means "breath" and in the Chinese Bible, in the verse in which God breathes the breath of life into Adam, causing him to be a 'living soul,' the word is chi. God breathed the chi of life into Adam. This means that fundamentalists are in the awkward position of believing that the God of the Bible breathed something satanic into Adam.)

Here's my Amazon review:

I believe the credibility of this story totally unravels in the first pages of the first chapter, which begins with a dramatic Nicosia Central Prison encounter. In it, Tony Anthony's prison buddy is violated, mauled, mutilated and beaten nearly to death by a psychopathic inmate who's conveniently named "Al Capone." Anthony, a Kung Fu master who began training in China when he was four, decides to take revenge. "Al Capone" is a raving madman, incarcerated for life, and his favorite hobby is "mutilating and raping other inmates." He's a foot taller than Anthony, but that's no problem since Anthony is like Huo Yuanjia on steroids. Anthony plans his revenge for two weeks. He's bristling with anticipation. Soon, all the inmates (including Al Capone) know that Anthony is going to finish Capone.

But Capone, wily chap that he is, catches Anthony unawares and slams him against a wall. Capone and Antony are "nose-to-nose." "The stench of his [Capone's] breath was sickening." Capone puts a razor to Anthony's jugular vein. Anthony counters by putting his left thumb in Capone's eye, after which "I quickly calculated my moves." Capone's ear "was just inches from my mouth," writes Anthony. He decides to do a Mike Tyson on Capone; he would fully "rip off his ear with my teeth." But just before Anthony takes the first bite, he becomes conflicted by Bible verses someone has recently showed him. Filled with remorse and confusion, he gives up the fight, expecting Capone to finish him. But instead, Capone flees away in terror, which is presumably induced God or an angel.

The careful reader should take note of these details and wonder. Here are a few problems with the narrative:

1. True martial artists (especially champions, as Anthony alleges to be) have a keenly developed sense of awareness. They've learned to feel their surroundings, to feel danger before it strikes. It's a sense of extreme heightened awareness. This is not a supernatural ability; rather it comes through years of mental discipline. Why doesn't Anthony have this ability? Especially since he knows that Capone is anticipating being attacked by him, and is thus, much more dangerous than usual? Why does a martial arts champion, trained from age four, walk around totally unaware in this situation, to the point of getting slammed against a wall by Capone and having Capone's razor against his neck? It just doesn't ring true.

2. When Anthony comes to his senses a bit too late and realizes he's about to get his throat cut, he "quickly calculated [his] moves." His calculations soon get complicated by a series of Bible verses. But this is just not the way martial arts works. Martial artists train repeatedly for decades on end; many different strikes, blocks, kicks, katas, etc. These all become deeply ingrained in their muscle memory and, when an altercation starts, they don't think. Rather, they act instinctively with lightening-fast speed. All that muscle memory comes suddenly into play, and before the martial artist knows it, the fight is finished. Those who calculate their moves and mull upon Bible verses during a confrontation inevitably lose. Once, a deranged man lunged to attack my wife when we were in a public place. Somehow, I blocked his punch while standing behind him, and the next thing I knew he was sprawled out on the ground. I didn't calculate or plan any of it. I was a bit confounded afterward. My first thought was, "Why is he on the ground?" I had to reconstruct what I'd done after the fact, with a little help from my wife. All the successful sparing sessions I've had also worked the same way. And I'm just a mid-level student, not a champ or master!

If Anthony was a Kung Fu master, his encounter with Capone would have ended similarly. Instantaneous instinct would come into play and Capone would have been reduced to a bloody heap in a second or two. (Then, with the razor no longer to his neck, Anthony could have tortured Capone to death as he was planning to do. Theoretically, at this juncture, he could have been conflicted by Bible verses and relented.) All martial artists know how lightening-fast instincts work in threat situations. Why doesn't Anthony know it?

3. Anthony claims that [1] Capone is a foot taller than him; [2] When Capone attacked him they were "nose-to-nose" and he could smell Capone's foul breath; and [3] Capone's ear was just inches from his mouth. Interesting. If Capone was indeed a foot taller, his nose would be about a foot higher than Anthony's (not "nose-to-nose"), and Capone's upper arm, rather than his ear, would just inches from Anthony's mouth. This is the most damaging aspect of the narrative in my view. One doesn't need to know a thing about martial arts to see how wrong this scenario is.

4. Capone, allegedly, was incarcerated for rape and murder, and his favorite hobby was raping other prisoners. This being the case, he would have had a 99.9% chance of being HIV-positive, and/or infected with Hepatitis B and C. Why would anyone with the least bit of common sense want to bite such a person's ear fully off and get a mouth full of his blood? Even if the above-mentioned height problem didn't exist, so that Capone's ear really was next to his mouth, why??? If Anthony was a Kung Fu champion, he would have had a hundred other options to use against Capone that wouldn't expose him to a mouth full of putrid, infected blood. (How about a knife-jab to the armpit or to the hypoglossal nerve; or dozens of other viable options?) Why in God's name, would he (or anyone) want to get a mouth full of frothy AIDS-blood?

In order to properly pull this off, Tony Anthony, Angela Little and Authentic Media should have hired a fiction editor, who would have caught the above-mentioned problems. The fiction editor would also have pointed out that white tigers (which Anthony allegedly petted and played with in the wild) don't even live in southern China, and that the only tiger in that region (South Chinese Tiger) was driven to near extinction under Chairman Mao's extermination program; and that no South China Tiger has been seen in the wild in over 50 years. The editor could also have warned Anthony that if he was going to claim to have lifted red-hot iron objects with his bare hands and arms, he should have the permanent branding scars to authenticate it. Or that people who cross the Arabian desert with only a small bottle of mineral water will die. And many other things... That's what fiction editors are for.

I believe that Anthony owes it to the public to post a page on his website with solid answers to these (and many, many other) credibility problems. If he fails to do so, I think it's safe to conclude that he has gravely dishonored all the martial arts, dishonored Chinese culture; specifically the Shaolin order, and dishonored the far-too-trusting Christians whom he has been deceiving.

If I were ever to meet him, the one thing I would say is, "Learn a little respect, dude!"

Well done to everyone, especially PDA and Concern, for your continuing efforts in exposing the liar and fraud, Tony Anthony.

Some great research has been done since i was last here, and some excellent points have been made.

No surprise to see that Tony Anthony is still squirming his way out of addressing all the issues that this thread has raised. And i see Malcolm Down is continuing to be complicit in Anthony's fraud, by his total failure to give a valid response to so many reasonable questions.

I think a good way to bring this whole sorry affair to a conclusion is to go to the police and report Tony's murder confessions, that are all over the internet.

Im not sure reporting him for murder will do much good because he can simply say to the police that he was lying on camera to dramatise his book.

We know for sure he can lie extremely well and has no quarms about lying to police.

The police would not be able to disclose to us why they where no longer following it up and he would likely use it to spin another yarn of how he is being persecuted.

When we met he said he had shot people but they where "terrorists"?
Terrorists attack a diplomat and a 16/18 year old Kung Fu Champion bodyguard saves him by shooting dead the terrorists and it didnt make the papers/news at the time! The media was obviously too busy covering the release of Michael Jacksons Off the Wall Album.

PDA.

P.S
When I met Tony he mentioned that you had filmed an interview with him (well walked up to him and questioned him camera in hand) , Is this true? If so did you ever post the footage?

I take your point about reporting Anthony's murder confessions to the police. I know full well he would have to admit to them he was lying.

I really just wanted to high-light the issue of Anthony's murder confessions again in this thread to make people think. Especially the people who are quick to jump to his defense. I understand that many of these people consider themselves Christians, and i'm sure a self-confessed murderer who has thus far not faced summary justice for his crimes, is something abhorrent to all right-thinking people.

Again, i would like to quote Tony Anthony's exact words from his TV interview in Canada: 'I should have been put in prison for many more things, cos i killed people in the line of duty as a body-guard.'

As regards the time when i went to meet him (a good few years ago, now), i took a friend with me who used his mobile phone to video-record the short conversation i had with Tony Anthony. I certainly did not walk up to Tony, questioning him, camera in hand!

Let me explain.

At the time i went to meet Anthony, it was the early days of this thread, and i was the protagonist and the most dedicated person trying to get some answers from Tony Anthony. After reading his book, although i knew the vast majority of it was pure fantasy, i didn't know if he may indeed have some martial arts experience, and if so, to what degree. I also didn't know how he would react to me. So i went prepared for anything and with a friend to record any 'interesting' events that may ensue.

As he stepped off the stage, after giving one of his talks, i made sure i was the first to greet him. I said, 'Hi Tony, i'm Stephen Prunetti, i guess i'm your nemesis.'

Tony was incredibly polite, even quite charming. We talked briefly in the hallway outside. My friend, Pete, took it upon himself to start recording our chat, but at some distance, as i'd told him to stay out of anything that may happen. I actually told him to only start filmimg if anything 'kicked-off.' I honestly did not go with the intention of recording my conversation with Tony Anthony, this is something that my friend took upon himself. I just wanted to meet the man in person, so i could sum him up face to face. In any event, due to my friend's distance, most of the conversation that was recorded was inaudible.

As i've said before, he was overly nice to me, but could not give a straight answer to any question that i put to him. I am no expert in body language or a clinical psychologist, but it was blatantly obvious to me that i was dealing with a 'Walter Mitty' character.

It was also obvious that despite his claims about his extensive training and world championship titles, Tony Anthony has absolutely NO martial arts experience of any kind.

This thread is one of the most viewed on Bullshido, and is still on-going. Judging by comments on his Youtube videos and a good percentage of the book reviews on Amazon, many, many, people can see Tony Anthony for what he truly is - a charlatan.

I also find it quite telling that one of Tony's fellow evangelists (Dennis McCaskill - who put a very brief appearance in on this thread, starting at post #341), is no longer associated with Avanti Ministries.

Saying that, the Tony Anthony circus still lurches on. He has a new website - http://www.tonyanthony.co.uk/ - complete with the obligatory bullshit biography of himself. (There is even a link to a forum! Can you imagine?! At present though, this link does not work and i won't be holding my breath).

Anyway, just want to say a big thanks to all that have contributed and are still contributing to this thread. Shame on Malcom Down and Angela Little, and looking forward to any further developments in the charade that is the Tony Anthony story.

The "murder" element is really not worth spending any time on. If he really killed people while in the line of duty as a body guard he would just claim self defence depending on the countries where it took place. Also it depends when these "murders" happened as to what evidence there would be. He also states they are "murders" because his skills were so deadly he had the choice to disarm them by shooting the guns out their hands or using nonlethal strikes and so forth, this again allows him the "self defence" element. This is even assuming he was telling the truth which we all strongly believe he is not.

I would stick with the other elements of his story which are more disprovable, ie who he worked for, where exaclty he trained etc... more chance of disproving what he is saying and thus removing his already thin credibility. The mention of his past court cases in the uk especially helping cover his wifes hit and run speak far more for his character than anything we can disprove.

The "murder" element is really not worth spending any time on. If he really killed people while in the line of duty as a body guard he would just claim self defence depending on the countries where it took place. Also it depends when these "murders" happened as to what evidence there would be. He also states they are "murders" because his skills were so deadly he had the choice to disarm them by shooting the guns out their hands or using nonlethal strikes and so forth, this again allows him the "self defence" element. This is even assuming he was telling the truth which we all strongly believe he is not.

It is an avenue like all of the others. Get his wok history and you can see if these deaths even occurred.

It is an avenue like all of the others. Get his wok history and you can see if these deaths even occurred.

True enough, the point I am addressing is more the idea that has been mentioned of the police being interested in the "murders". So far we have no evidence either way beyond his sales pitch. Even then he insinuates the murders took place internationally which makes it even less likely they will take an interest unless there are outstanding warrants for his arrest/extradition or at the very least outstanding cases and investigations going on in other countries. And given his relatively high profile and his willingness to appear in the public eye it is extremely unlikely this is the case. Either way none of it is likely to come out without first establishing the basics his identity, is tony anthony his real name, what is his actual date of birth, place of birth etc..

I would suggest pursuing these more tangible elements of his claims such as his actual date of birth, where he grew up and so forth as it is more likely to yield results. the deaths and such like will either come to light or not but it is not a very good avenue to pursue at an early stage as there is not enough known or corroborated about him to validate any information we dig up.