you gonna be ok homey? You need a tree to hug? I know that the Broncos winning isn't your highest priority... maybe a wheatgrass enema will help?

This team hasn't got a snowballs' chance in hell of a title. Anyone who thinks Peyton Manning is all that separates this team from being the best in the league hasn't got a clue. And the FO is proving that that's exactly what they think.

This team hasn't got a snowballs' chance in hell of a title. Anyone who thinks Peyton Manning is all that separates this team from being the best in the league hasn't got a clue. And the FO is proving that that's exactly what they think.

If Manning is healthy, and I agree that this is still a big question, absolutely he makes this team much, much better. Following your argument if the Broncos are only let's say 50% there (as their 8-8 record indicates) then bringing in a healthy Manning auto upgrades this team to 12-4. Yes, add a few more pieces, especially on defense and this team is a SB contender.

Just because you want Tebow to be the Broncos QB (and I am a big Tebow fan too but I'm realistic about his ability to effectively throw the ball and a consistent basis) does not deminish the fact that Manning is a massive QB upgrade. Organically speaking of course...

If Manning is healthy, and I agree that this is still a big question, absolutely he makes this team much, much better. Following your argument if the Broncos are only let's say 50% there (as their 8-8 record indicates) then bringing in a healthy Manning auto upgrades this team to 12-4. Yes, add a few more pieces, especially on defense and this team is a SB contender.

Just because you want Tebow to be the Broncos QB (and I am a big Tebow fan too but I'm realistic about his ability to effectively throw the ball and a consistent basis) does not deminish the fact that Manning is a massive QB upgrade. Biologically speaking of course...

Except Tebow's success with this team came largely from turning one of the (if not THE) worst rushing teams in the league to #1.

Acting like Manning comes into that scenario and just tacks onto what was already accomplished is silly. Manning undoes what Tebow accomplished and takes us back to a bottom 10 running game. There's pretty much no debating that.

So 8-8 becomes effectively meaningless. 4-12 and 1-4 more resembles the floor for Manning to build from.

Except Tebow's success with this team came largely from turning one of the (if not THE) worst rushing teams in the league to #1.

Acting like Manning comes into that scenario and just tacks onto what was already accomplished is silly. Manning undoes what Tebow accomplished and takes us back to a bottom 10 running game. There's pretty much no debating that.

So 8-8 becomes effectively meaningless. 4-12 and 1-4 more resembles the floor for Manning to build from.

See, this type of argument effectively tells me you are not a Broncos fan. You are a Tebow fan and nothing more.

The Broncos squeaked out some wins with Tebow, was it fun to watch, yep. Did the ball bounce the Broncos way on some of those wins, yep. What's the old saying--it's better to be lucky than to be good--yep.

You want to credit all those wins to Tebow. Fact is, teams were not prepared to play against Tebow's spread option attack. However, towards the end of the season the Broncos were pretty much shut down. The Broncos went 1-3 in the last 4 games which sucks. The Broncos also got humiliated by the NE twice.

NE b**** slapped the Broncos twice in like 6 weeks. When the Broncos face teams with good QBs, they struggled.

I'd love for Tebow to become the next great Broncos QB but the way this team struggled at the end of the season tells me that Tebow is a lot farther away from being a franchis QB than many fans want to admit.

If you are referring to this arm, there have been multiple reports on this, including one from his former teammate, that he's 100%. He's also brought film of his workouts at Duke to all of the teams.

If you are referring to his neck, doctors have cleared him to play. There have even been posters on this site who have had the same surgery/injury that say he's at the same level of risk than any other person (without the injury) would be.

I know some of you have an agenda and/or have your head in the sand, but Peyton's health isn't even a question here. If the Broncos get him, they get a 100% Peyton Manning.

See, this type of argument effectively tells me you are not a Broncos fan. You are a Tebow fan and nothing more.

The Broncos squeaked out some wins with Tebow, was it fun to watch, yep. Did the ball bounce the Broncos way on some of those wins, yep. What's the old saying--it's better to be lucky than to be good--yep.

You want to credit all those wins to Tebow. Fact is, teams were not prepared to play against Tebow's spread option attack. However, towards the end of the season the Broncos were pretty much shut down. The Broncos went 1-3 in the last 4 games which sucks. The Broncos also got humiliated by the NE twice.

NE b**** slapped the Broncos twice in like 6 weeks. When the Broncos face teams with good QBs, they struggled.

I'd love for Tebow to become the next great Broncos QB but the way this team struggled at the end of the season tells me that Tebow is a lot farther away from being a franchis QB than many fans want to admit.

It was his first year starting and he was killing the Pats the first time around. He was injured the second time. You just pointed out that the defense is the problem, and used it as evidence against Tebow. He just went 8-5, with a playoff win, with one of the worst teams in the league.

It was his first year starting and he was killing the Pats the first time around. He was injured the second time. You just pointed out that the defense is the problem, and used it as evidence against Tebow. He just went 8-5, with a playoff win, with one of the worst teams in the league.

Except Tebow's success with this team came largely from turning one of the (if not THE) worst rushing teams in the league to #1.Manning undoes what Tebow accomplished and takes us back to a bottom 10 running game. There's pretty much no debating that.

So 8-8 becomes effectively meaningless. 4-12 and 1-4 more resembles the floor for Manning to build from.

Because we all know that a HOF QB who can throw darts with pinpoint accuracy all-over the field off of play action and get teams into personnel mismatches all over the field. We all know that's going to do terrible things to a team's ability to run the ball.

You want to credit all those wins to Tebow. Fact is, teams were not prepared to play against Tebow's spread option attack. However, towards the end of the season the Broncos were pretty much shut down. The Broncos went 1-3 in the last 4 games which sucks. The Broncos also got humiliated by the NE twice.

See this is the type of argument that effectively tells me you're not a football fan.

We were not playing a spread option offense. You can't run a "SPREAD" (keyword) offense with 2 receivers on the field. It defies the definition. McCoy's alignments were completely unfamilar to Tebow, who had no offseason and not a single week of reps with his receivers before being thrown in after "Best Chance to Win"

Quote:

NE b**** slapped the Broncos twice in like 6 weeks. When the Broncos face teams with good QBs, they struggled.

Tebow played well in the first NE game. Nearly 300 total yards, some turnovers (1 was his) Offense moved pretty well. The D had no answer for Brady or Gronk/Hernandez. And in the playoff game the O-Line put on the worst performance in years, with a complete meltdown by the D.

Tebow could never have won either of those games. And neither could Manning. The Broncos were plainly and obviously outgunned from top to bottom.

So your claim is that Peyton will upgrade our pass D? Or that he's had so much success beating NE (lulz) that history will surely repeat itself regardless of supporting cast (drenched in sarcasm in case you can't realize it )

nope, never said that at all. I said the Broncos are still a few pieces away, especially on defense.

Because we all know that a HOF QB who can throw darts with pinpoint accuracy all-over the field off of play action and get teams into personnel mismatches all over the field. We all know that's going to do terrible things to a team's ability to run the ball.

We've already been over this. The Colts run game has been **** for a long long time. They basically stopped trying shortly after Edge left.

Yeah, mostly that... and they better not just ice the kid to keep things quiet. Elway would have to swallow his ego, stop with the douchebaggery and stick to his word to do everything possible to develop Tim.

But with Manning, I don't see that happening. I've just got a feeling John thinks he can ship Tim once Manning's here and nobody would care. I think he's waking the proverbial sleeping giant, especially if Peyton looks like anything less than Super Bowl caliber.

I disagree. First, I think tebow fans are waking up a preverbal giant in bronco fans and PM or no PM, a very realistic 2-12 season posted by him as the QB next season would have him shipped out at the end of the year anyway. Tebow should thank Orton and McDummy for the recent lowered standard in Denver, because had the standards that got Shanny fired been in place last year, Tebow would have been ran out of town if not after the Detroit game, definitely after the buffalo game. Because of Orton and McDummy, Bronco fans have lowered its standards a bit; but Elway has not. The Manning move: whether they sign him or not, is genius in that it's waking up the fans to the standard set by him, Super Bowl contenders year in and year out. Once Bronco fans wake up after being asleep the last few years, Tebow's play simply is unacceptable, period!

Second, most Bronco fans love - LOVE - Elway's bold moves to win now. He knows nothing else’s and true Broncos fans know that about him. You need to wake up the realities of the NFL. Tebow has no guarantees. He knows that, and its time Tebow fans realize that. The NFL is business and its business is winning. Even a HOF'er like Manning gets replaced. Wake up.

Lastly, you’re standard for Manning and yet the low standard that you have for Tebow is funny. However, it means nothing. If Manning accepts a $20m+ a year contract, there is no doubt he is "super bowl caliber" so your empty "threats" to Elway is redic. Manning turned down a 100 million contract offered by the colts after his third neck surgery because he didn't want to waste the colt's money or cap space should he not recover. I live in Indy, and have a good vantage point with respect to Manning. He is a class act, and this isn't about the money its about his legacy right now. If he wasn't the Manning that everybody knows, he wouldn't be doing all this right now. If Elway signs him, Denver is a super bowl contender.

Oh and one more thing, If Elway gets this done Tebow fans have a lot more to worry about than simply his hurt feelings or how Manning plays. The way it looks right now, there isn't much of a market for Tebow. Should Denver not find anybody to trade with, they could release him. That means Tebow will not be in the NFL next year, and or could possibly be relegated to a practice squad. His leverage as a 1st round pick is only against the Broncos, no other team would have that. If Denver releases him, every other team would pick him up as a flyer, therefore Tebow had better learn to play QB or accept an H-back move because he will see the field or even be in the NFL if he dosen't.

Because we all know that a HOF QB who can throw darts with pinpoint accuracy all-over the field off of play action and get teams into personnel mismatches all over the field. We all know that's going to do terrible things to a team's ability to run the ball.

I'd guarantee we wouldn't have the best running game in the league under Manning.

Have you seen Tenn's young WRs? The difference between them and Den's is they've actually accomplished what we HOPE DT can amount to.

Larry Fitzgerald? Don't need to even mention anyone else.

Miami MIGHT be worse off than we are in receiving options, but between Bush and Fasano and some young wideouts, I wouldn't bank on that either.

This has been the most hilarious thing over the last few days hearing pundits talk about how much talent the Broncos have and implying Manning fixes the one, major weakness. From Colin, to pretty much every local host, to Griese, and of course the ESPN guys facing Skip- it's like they just can't pass up any opportunity to take a shot on Tim. This is just some of what I've heard this week:

* They have an amazing defense that carried them to wins despite Tebow (The defense did play well during the win streak but they're still with major flaws. Just look at their ranking and play against good QBs)

* The Broncos have a top 5 OL (Really? The same OL that most Tebow-doubters were destroying in their attempts to defend Orton because he didn't have any time? Rev can speak to the benefits a mobile QB gives an OL. BTW, they got destroyed by NE in the playoff game)

* They have the top run game in the NFL (Check their rushing stats before #15 went into the lineup and the zone-read was put in play.)

* Decker and DT are top WR prospects but you can't evaluate them with a QB like Tebow (I like both guys, DT looked pretty damn good with Tebow to me. Decker would probably benefit more from a conventional offense but the fact both guys dropped passes at such a high clip didn't help)

* J.Thomas was drafted with huge expectations but he cant play with Tebow either (So why were so many key passes of Tebows to Fells and Rosario?)

* Mike McCoy did an incredible job morphing a gameplan around his limited QB (I give him credit for not being stubborn but outside of the Steelers and Raiders games that had really innovative playcalling that attacked all areas of the field, did anyone love his playcalling? Especially in the Patriots playoff game?)

It is literally as if these clowns dismiss the team was 1-4 with Orton (or if they don't they just have to throw out that they finished 1-4, so I suppose touche) and the worst team in the league over the last two years before the switch. Tebow took over the same team Orton couldn't win with (minus their only Pro Bowler on offense actually) and at least had SOME success.

Now I'm not a Tebow homer- I have no clue if he's going to be a good QB, I doubt he can overcome an organization that doesn't support him and I completely recognize that they'll have difficulty recruiting players to join him on offense. But the way he's being buryed with facts being distorted is just irresponsible.

See this is the type of argument that effectively tells me you're not a football fan.

We were not playing a spread option offense. You can't run a "SPREAD" (keyword) offense with 2 receivers on the field. It defies the definition. McCoy's alignments were completely unfamilar to Tebow, who had no offseason and not a single week of reps with his receivers before being thrown in after "Best Chance to Win".

The Broncos designed the offense around Tebow homey, not sure what your point is.

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Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis

Tebow played well in the first NE game. Nearly 300 total yards, some turnovers (1 was his) Offense moved pretty well. The D had no answer for Brady or Gronk/Hernandez. And in the playoff game the O-Line put on the worst performance in years, with a complete meltdown by the D.

Tebow could never have won either of those games. And neither could Manning. The Broncos were plainly and obviously outgunned from top to bottom.

Turnovers did kill the Broncos in the first game. In the second game NE just knew what the Broncos were going to do and effectively shut the Broncos offense down.