The real problem is the folks in the big-tire-off-road rigs that go up there in the winter and tear up the road. If folks with normal vehicles were the only ones on this road, I think it would be fine.

To me the bad parts seem clearly the result of erosion, not mud bogging yahoos; I'm sure we've both seen the foot-and-a-half deep twin ruts from the latter, and I saw nothing like that. There's at least one place that someone cut a switchback, leaving and ugly scar that is eating into the roadbed, but I cannot think of other signs of misuse. Can you show me on OpenStreetCam the signs that lead to your conclusion?

The real problem is the folks in the big-tire-off-road rigs that go up there in the winter and tear up the road. If folks with normal vehicles were the only ones on this road, I think it would be fine.

To me the bad parts seem clearly the result of erosion, not mud bogging yahoos; I'm sure we've both seen the foot-and-a-half deep twin ruts from the latter, and I saw nothing like that. There's at least one place that someone cut a switchback, leaving and ugly scar that is eating into the roadbed, but I cannot think of other signs of misuse. Can you show me on OpenStreetCam the signs that lead to your conclusion?

Thanks for the link to openstreetcam.org I hadn't heard of it.

I wasn't clear with my statement about the road getting torn up: Yes, erosion is the main culprit but I think that is caused by the water bars being destroyed and I think it's mostly done by "mud bogging yahoos". I've witnessed this happening at least three times in the past. They spin all four tires as they claw their way up the road through snow and eat into the roadbed and cut through water bars in the process. Last winter I hiked up the road and saw a group of five trucks doing just that. Entertaining to watch but destructive.

Well that's a shame. I wonder if these people knew the damage they were doing and if they would care. There are LNT ethics for 4x4's too, and groups that try to spread them, but trucks don't come with a copy and people have to be receptive. Especially with the way trucks and Jeeps are advertised it's easy to forget that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

It sounds like a seasonal gate may be a necessary prerequisite for rebuilding the road, community effort or otherwise.

Thanks for assessing the road, Don. I agree that there is a lot more damage than meets the eye. For example, I have considered what it would take to fix just the first big rut at the first turn.

Ultimately, that rut is caused by the washed-out waterbar around the next turn, almost 600 feet up the road.

The waterbar looks like this:

The situation is made worse by this old ditch that has been filled in and has saplings growing in it on the right side of the road. That keeps the water running down the road.

So we would have to rebuild that waterbar, which probably means removing all the material that it directed into the forest. Then remove the saplings and dig out that old ditch. And then put down gravel in the rut. The utility companies actually do that to their trenches in roadways all the time. They put down a couple inches of gravel, then compact it with a vibratory compactor. They keep doing that in layers until they have filled their trench. So this would all be a lot of work. But I think we could accomplish the prep work in July, and then put down the gravel in October. We would document our work and use it to prove that it can be done in our fundraising efforts. In the end we would have fixed ~600 feet of road and have a compelling argument for people to fund us.

Several farmers have offered the use of their tractors with bucket/backhoe attachments. Might not be able to get permission to use them. But it does prove that a wide variety of people are interested in fixing 4109.

Well, we went on another scouting trip on the 4th. Every time you go up there you see new tasks to complete. Old turnouts where the brush has grown in. Remnants of ditches. I think I will mark work areas with spray paint. Maybe orange for brushout and pink for ditch digging? That way we can hand people the appropriate tool and tell them to find the closest unfinished section in their color.

I brushed out about 70 feet of that first ditch, which brought another problem to my attention. Whenever people have found a tree on the road, they have done the right thing by cutting it into chunks and pulling it off the road. It is then up to the Forest Service to buck the log and remove it from the shoulder or ditch. But that isn't happening. So we should do that too. The thing is, logs are useful commodities. If we can drag some up to that switchback shortcut, we could build a barrier there and keep people from wheeling up it. A 4WD vehicle could do it. But my dad has a tractor with a stinger, which would be ideal.

My wife cleaned some of the ditch immediately above the First Big Rut. She's pregnant, but she didn't let that keep her from working. She placed the material in some of the feeder ruts. When it was damp it looked brown. But once it dried out a bit it was a beautiful gray mix of aggregate fines. So the material in the ditch is usable. We also dug into the spoils from the First Failed Waterbar and found a lot of gravel there. So I am still going to buy 2 yards of gravel. But we have material we can place in other places.

I have rehandled some old shovels so that I will have a few loaner tools for the event. And I am generally looking into logistics. Questions like, who will bring the compactor up? When? When should the gravel be delivered?

We could probably use someone with a midsize lifted SUV to ferry volunteers up and down the road on Saturday.

What to bring: Sturdy boots, gloves, a gallon of water, a sack lunch and any digging or cutting tools that you would like to use. Shovels, pickaxes, tampers, bowsaws, pruners, machetes and hoes would all be useful. Eye protection and hearing protection are also recommended. Domino's pizza will be provided for dinner on Saturday so please let us know if you intend to be there for that.

Communications: (360) 335-4528, FRS Channel 9.

Rough Schedule: On Friday morning I and some others will arrive and start removing brush from the shoulders, ditches and waterbar areas. We will also remove some logs. Friday evening I will camp either up at the junction or down on Copper Creek.

Then, on Saturday morning, some mechanical force multipliers will arrive and we will rebuild a waterbar, clean out a ditch, and place two yards of new gravel to fill a rut. We may accomplish more than that depending on how many additional helpers come up, but those are our minimum goals. After work finishes up around 5, we will eat pizza and toast the day's work. Any of you are welcome to come and go at any time during the event. We will find work for you to do. But most of all, we will leave the road in a better condition than when we found it, and we will have fun.

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