RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 4:57 PM

Tron Unit Wrote:

ChessMess Wrote:Simply put, your a fool to not play Tron 2.0 because of the graphics. But to each his own.

Simply put I was a fool to play Evolution. That game is lame. I know you Troniacs will buy anything Tron that is spoon fed to you but Tron 2.0 is not my idea of what Tron is about. Looks pretty juvenile in its design and approach to the material like Clone Wars is to Star Wars. No thanks.

Well... how does it not fit your ideas and expectations of Tron?

For me, while there are aspects to the character designs I'm not fond of, I found the world of Tron itself executed phenomenally. Part of it can't be conveyed in pictures. You have to see the flickering glow of things and hear the sounds of the environment.

Again, I felt the overall story was a bit flat. I'm not above hearing criticisms of the material, and I absolutely do not embrace all material simply for being labeled "Tron". However, I do think there is some substance and enjoyment to 2.0 that you might be overlooking due to the aspects that offend you.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 5:18 PM

Its functionality was explained throughout the original series. We both know that technology currently does not exist. The writers have to create technobabble or gobblegook as explanation to provide sensible plot logic to serve the purpose of making the practicality of impossibility seem possible. You can argue that Tron is fantasy and I would agree there is some degree of that in ALL fiction but as a writer you must make the impossible seem somehow plausible otherwise when you just make a program like Quorra who exists as binary code even though that binary code acts as her DNA just manifest into our world as flesh it makes absolutely no sense like pulling a rabbit out of an ethereal hat and saying it's magic. Ta-da! Sorry, I just don't buy that.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 5:35 PM

Tron Unit Wrote:Its functionality was explained throughout the original series.

I can't recall any instances of a clear, realistic explanation from the original series. they gave us an episode with Kirk split into his "good" and "evil" sides for crying out loud!

We both know that technology currently does not exist. The writers have to create technobabble or gobblegook as explanation to provide sensible plot logic to serve the purpose of making the practicality of impossibility seem possible.

But that's exactly what Star Trek did. For instance, when people started thinking up plausible explanations for the transporter's operation (around the time of TNG) they realized they had to account for the uncertainty principle. So what did they do? "Oh, they have a Heisenberg compensator". How is a mystical device that somehow manages to work around one of the most fundamental premises of physics not "technobabble".

You can argue that Tron is fantasy and I would agree there is some degree of that in ALL fiction but as a writer you must make the impossible seem somehow plausible otherwise when you just make a program like Quorra who exists as binary code even though that binary code acts as her DNA just manifest into our world as flesh it makes absolutely no sense like pulling a rabbit out of an ethereal hat and saying it's magic. Ta-da! Sorry, I just don't buy that.

But their explanation for the digitizing laser's operation does make Quorra's situation plausible. She has some sort of "biodigital" DNA that, when combined with the stored material, allowed her to be brought to our world. Sure there's a ton of hand-waving in there, but I simply don't understand why it's harder to buy that than the entire concept of a digital universe existing in your home computer.
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RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 5:46 PM

cirlin Wrote:I can't recall any instances of a clear, realistic explanation from the original series. they gave us an episode with Kirk split into his "good" and "evil" sides for crying out loud!

That episode was more of a metaphor for his good and evil duality but I seem to recall Spock or Scotty giving some exposition about how the reintegration of both halves could potentially result in some kind of matter/anti-matter annihilation when re-energized back into the transporter kind of like Clu and Flynn.

But that's exactly what Star Trek did. For instance, when people started thinking up plausible explanations for the transporter's operation (around the time of TNG) they realized they had to account for the uncertainty principle. So what did they do? "Oh, they have a Heisenberg compensator". How is a mystical device that somehow manages to work around one of the most fundamental premises of physics not "technobabble".

I don't understand the point you are arguing. It IS technobabble. That's what I was saying. It serves the purpose of plot logic to make the implausible seem possible. What do you not understand about that?

But their explanation for the digitizing laser's operation does make Quorra's situation plausible. She has some sort of "biodigital" DNA that, when combined with the stored material, allowed her to be brought to our world. Sure there's a ton of hand-waving in there, but I simply don't understand why it's harder to buy that than the entire concept of a digital universe existing in your home computer.

So how does a program who exists ONLY as binary code get transformed into physical matter? The writers gave some B.S. excuse AFTER the film came out that she used Flynn's matter from when it was digitized and suspended in the laser? I call B.S. It was not explained to the audience in any logical or sensible way in the narrative of the story. The ending was cheesy, unconvincing and ridiculously contrived.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 6:44 PM

1. Yeah, it was a metaphor, and completely implausible. Why is that Ok in Star Trek but not Tron? And what Spock said might involve the transporter, but it’s not a plausible explanation for how it works.

2. When you wrote about technobabble is came off as saying that Tron was doing this, but Star Trek did not. Were you trying to say that Star Trek did this, but Tron did not provide enough technobabble?

3. The digital DNA was equivalent enough to allow the transfer I suppose. Heck, maybe Flynn wrote a conversion program when he started seeing the potential of the Iso’s, and that was encoded on his disc! The specifics aren’t really that important, but what I really want to know is why this is a sticking point, but the rest of the idea of Tron is not.
Also, I understand that you wanted more explanation for Quorra’s un-digitizing in the movie. I wouldn’t have minded either, but where do you come off call the explanation they did give “B.S”? What makes it B.S.? We’ll probably just have to agree to disagree on this point as I feel the complete opposite about the ending. I thought it was wonderful to watch her experience her first sunrise, get her wish of seeing the things she’d longed for. It left me with a feeling of great potential for where the story could go from there and what adventures they could have. It’s much like the first movie in that way.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 6:55 PM

How many times in Star Trek does Bones say he hates stepping into the transporter because he hates the idea of having his atoms scattered across the universe? They explain its functionality all the time with that kind of expositional gooblegook. Just like how the Flux Capacitor is used in Back to the Future. It's the missing link to how time travel works. We don't necessarily understand how but it is descibed as being the device that makes time travel possible. We know it requires plutonium to generate 1.21 gigawatts of electricity it needs to achieve a nuclear reaction and 88 mph velocity. Why 88? It's got to be something right? Arbitrary but it makes some sort of crazy sense and we buy it. Flynn's disc is essentially the proverbial magician's hat by which they pull an ethereal rabbit out of. Quorra's biodigital DNA is written in her code but needs Flynn's disc to get to our world... how exactly does it do this? We don't know. It's just the master key, the golden ticket. We're not exactly sure how that is supposed to make a lick of sense but wink wink it works.where to buy abortion pill http://blog.bitimpulse.com/template/default.aspx?abortion-types buy abortion pill online

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 8:21 PM

Tron Unit Wrote:I know you Troniacs will buy anything Tron that is spoon fed to you but Tron 2.0 is not my idea of what Tron is about. Looks pretty juvenile in its design and approach to the material like Clone Wars is to Star Wars. No thanks.

You can't just dismiss a game without having actually played it. At least play the demo and then make up your mind. (Even though the demo is a poor representation of the full game, in my opinion.)

Just like I didn't dismiss Evolution, even though early on I thought it looked pretty bad. I still actually played it, giving it a chance to impress me. (Which it didn't, sadly.)

typicaltronname Wrote:I would love to play tron 2.0, but I can't find a Demo of it anywhere, to see if I would actually like the game.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Thursday, December, 30, 2010 11:07 PM

No, everything just stops. Its an alternate universe, outside ours entirely. It is created by the computer, but is not specifically dependent on the computer for it's existence. Thats why in the TRON world you can have a huge existence represented in a few MB of code on our side of the fence but looks like it would take GB on the other side.

It then starts again from where it left off once you boot it up again. To anyone in the TRON world, they wouldn't even notice it. Programs or Users.

To kill it you would have to format the HDD without backing it up, plus kill the operating system as well (rip out the EEProms and squash them as well). Basically destroy any and all record that the computer ever ran in the first place.

No doubt in a future edition of TRON they will show what this does to the TRON world (the ultimate genocide) and then use it as a plot point.

Plot points abound, like the time someone does a "system restore" back to a few weeks ago, etc etc etc.

You can copy a program or user but in doing so you create two universes - the one he exists in now and the one you just copied him to, and they then both take their own path forward.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Saturday, March, 23, 2013 3:54 PM

Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I am new here and have thoughts on these topics.

Ok. as for the power supply thing. Someone said the the building was an ENCOM building and that the power would remain on being auto paid by the company.
1) Who said it was an ENCOM building?
2) If it were, it was shut down and no longer used, so why still pay for power to be supplied to it?
3) Lets say it is ENCOM owned and power supplied to it, In 20 years there has never been a power outage?
4) Lets assume Flynn's computer is on a separate power supply. Generators require fuel. Who is supplying this? Alternate power supplies like solar, wind, require maintenance. Who is doing that?

The movie leads us to believe that the arcade building has been locked and abandoned for 20 years, yet they then want us to believe that for 20 years this old 1980's computer is still been running non stop.

Now for the topic at hand. What happens to a user when a system is turned off?

Well, we all know that not all programs shut down when you turn the computer off. The clock is always running. So maybe users are constant running.

A bigger question is what happens to programs and users if a System Restore is preformed?

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Sunday, March, 24, 2013 12:09 AM

The basement server and mini-laser lab was Flynn's baby. I would be shocked if Flynn didn't have multiple redundant power supplies and accounts set up at Encom explicitly for upkeep of the arcade property. Accounts for utilities like that can continue automatically if nobody stops them for decades. It happens in real life.

Also, while this is viewer conjecture or "fridge logic" I've always felt that Tron's universe is definitely an alternate universe - in an overall sense, not just the existence of a fictional company like Encom.

In Tron, Encom already had computer technology in advance of what was truly possible in the early 80s. Flynn, boy genius, took over and they began designing ever more advanced computers. I think it's plausible that in the 7 years between Tron and Flynn being trapped in the Grid, he also advanced computer technology in the real world faster than in real life. By performing research and development inside the Grid, and bringing some of the designs out with him. (This may be hinted at due to engineers like "Ram" working with Flynn in his inner circle, helping with exotic projects and technology.)

There's a reason why in the Tron universe Encom is apparently the most advanced computer company in the world, and far ahead of anyone else.

So, I wouldn't really be surprised if the server Flynn installed in the basement was essentially something a decade more advanced than actually existed in 1985-88, and I bet it was built to hardened, military grade specs. His life literally depended on it!

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Sunday, March, 24, 2013 4:35 PM

*chuckles* This topic brings Schrodinger's Cat to mind

The grid isn't self-contained within a single operating system, is it?
I've always been under the impression that a terminal allows users to interact with the digital space.
If shutting down a computer actually kills a user, then why doesn't it shut down the entire system along with the user?where to buy abortion pill ordering abortion pills to be shipped to house buy abortion pill online

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Sunday, March, 24, 2013 6:09 PM

I would think it would have the same effect on a user that it would have on a program, or the rest of that digital world, really.

It seems like Kevin's vision for the future was to allow everyone to utilize this digitization tech to go to into the computer, but as if it were an alternate reality. A perfect utopian world, in a way. You could have people living in these alternate realities exclusively, be able to fit an entire world population's worth of people into a small server farm somewhere where they're living in a utopia.

But the scary part is, like the title of the thread suggests, what happens when the computer gets turned off. Lets assume that they don't die, but lets also assume that a large percentage of people from a given region are living in one of these computer arcologies. Who is there to turn the power back on?

On a related note, the TRON 2.0 Ghost in the Machine comic covers this somewhat:

SPOILER... Mouse Over To Read:

Kevin Flynn, after the events of the first film, reflects on his experience in the computer, and, instead of feeling inspired like in the Legacy canon, becomes horrified at the idea of formatting a hard drive or even shutting down a computer. Jet suffers from the same thing in the comic.

RE: If you shut off the power to a computer with a user inside, would the user die?on Sunday, March, 24, 2013 6:49 PM

I am very active in Second Life. When we are working in a sim and they want to do a region reset, it alerts us. If we remain in the sim, it logs us off. If we log off and later try to log on and that area i snot "online" it sends us to a near by sim. We do not "die". SO maybe if you turn off a server, it just relocates the users to another server.