CONFIRMED LINE-UP: Spurs vs United

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143 Comments

@Yup, we can agree to disagree. I did not mention in my respond to you, but I did mention somewhere about the shortage of option on the bench which might limited LVG option in terms of providing a more proper respond. But clearly Pochetino got it right, I almost think he must have looked into our bench today and knew one way or the other that if he could get his tactic right, it would be difficult for LVG to respond.

But I still believe even with some fresh legs I doubt the result would be to our favor if he did not alter the tactic.

Not undermining city but look at their oppositions and look at the oppositions we and chelsea are playing. PLaying burnley , palace at home andthen suunderland are the easiest fixtures. SO city are not doing anything extraordinary. As doe chelsea goes well they are beatable and are boring to watch.

@ashtheking
I'm not sure if I was included in that sentiment :)
If I were, allow me to respond :)

As you pointed out -and I agree with you- shit does happen and it's understandable -to an extent. Shit like, the crossbar hit from Mata's freekick, Van Persie's miss kick for instance. Yes, those are the 'shit happens' moment. But if you are so called one of the lethal strikers in the world today but could not convert from a feet away, that was so unreal. It's kind of like the feeling I got when Diego Forlan's miss a complete sitte (the later was worst I have to admit).

I think Ash, in a way I do want to accept the fact that they are human, human make mistakes. These particular set of humans though were paid handsomely due to their out of this world skills and talents.
Now I'm not berating RVP and Falcao. I support the team with passion and the level of support that is equal to that I showed to Liam Miller. But if we can not seize a moment like this, a regrettable situation such as the title lost to City a few seasons back may happen again. And we only have ourselves to blame. I really don't think it's overreacting. But you might not address it to me :)

@Ash,
When Chelsea play these small teams they dominate possesion and control the game, as do city. I just feel city do it better and seem quit at ease. You will notice this when they meet for the second leg, i bet you city will be the dominant team with chelsea playing counter attack just as it happened in the 1st game. It doesnt mean chelsea will loose, just that when the 2 teams meet, city play as the dominant team.

No issues mate. I also get pissed and I also feel we should have buried those chances but I will take positives and move forward. Let us not forget where were we last season. We are talking about tittles, that itself is signof improvement

NairobiRed

Agreed. City do attack better, you know what every majority team attacks better than chelsea.

Jaysus, only team to gain ground was Arsenal. Surprised with all three draws for the top 3 today... United should have won.... City were 2-0 up at half time... not sure what happened with Chelsea game but didn't expect Southampton to get anything.

Yup thats the worry. We should not forget about arsenal eventhough they are playing some poor football. But 3 points is not that big. But I am sure after the festive fixture we will kick on go on another winning streak.

We can't just settle for top 4 this season with Europa league winners getting a champions spot. The chances of Liverool, Everton or spurs winning the Europa league is slim but we can't take the chance of settling for 4th in the league then one if those teams taking the final spot next season via a Europa cup win. Every goal and every point is vital this season which just makes the last two draws more frustrating.

The EPL is proving to be one tough mutha. People saying the league is now shit are mistaken. It's become tougher. Each game this season is like knockout football. Very tactical and brutal.

That said we should have won the game today. No excuses. Mata should have had at least 3 assists and at least a goal. Sometimes these things happen. You go to Southampton and shoot three times and score twice. You come to Spurs and in the first half alone you have ten chances to score and score zero. It's hard to decipher. It's disappointing. Second half Spurs came out with two effective tactics. Don't let United cross the halfway line. Two. Disrupt. They did this excellently. We couldn't string three passes together and lost all the rhythm of the first half. Bizarre.

Rooney free header. Pass to the keeper. Falcao through on goal. Pass to the keeper. Falcao again. Semi serious shot five centimeters away from keeper. Easy save. Young world class curler top corner. David De Gea carbon copy save. Let's not talk about RvP.

I am once again proud of how my team plays ... Sadly 3 points determine the smile .... But I am loving the way LVG boys are playing ... If it hadn't been so many injuries, we would have not lost that steam in the second half

1) First half was our best away performance since the first hour vs Leicester.
2) Most of the teams around us also dropped points.

I KNEW we wouldn't be able to keep it up in the second half because the game 48 hours before would catch up with us. That's why we had to take those first half chances, to give us a cushion. Unfortunately our forwards fluffed their lines.

It's weird because one of my big criticisms earlier in the season was a lack of ruthlessness, not taking our chances. Think of the games against the likes of Everton, West Ham, Palace Stoke etc - games that we should have won comfortably but we missee chances and ended up hanging on for a nervy 2-1 or 1-0.

Then over the last few weeks we seemed to have become ruthless. Against Liverpool and Southampton we were really clinical and efficient. But today was back to the old issue of not putting the ball in the net.

It's a shame we have so many injuries that the team basically picks itself atm. NOT what you need at this stage of the season, you need freshness. LVG's hands were basically tied - the one error I feel he made was not playing Wilson, even for 20 minutes. His speed and energy could have perked us up and maybe even pushed Spurs back a bit

Looks like it'll be same again vs Stoke. I do expect Smalling and Shaw to come in, and perhaps Wilson/Di Maria up front to give us some speed. But the core of the side will have to remain the way it is I think.

Gotta say in all my years if watching Utd I've never seen us as ravaged by injuries as this season.

As is customary here at least one player has to be UNFAIRLY criticized. I'm not against criticism and some players deserve it tonight. But Rafael? Lol. WTF. There's totally no merit in bashing him. Simple. We played well first half. Badly second half.

Many issues there.

1. The rest of the major leagues take breaks at this time for obvious reasons. Players are not machines. The EPL is only interested in revenue so players will spend every two days of Christmas season playing football in the blistering cold. Second half you could see the fatigue. No one had the legs to run. Both sides. It's a stupid idea by the Premier League. I mean if you see Rooney tired no other footballer apart from Park Ji Sung is gonna be running around.

2. Injuries. As usual. People saying LVG should have changed his team. Fine. And play who exactly? Take off Carrick and play Fletcher. Van Persie off for Wilson. Shaw whom we rushed into worsening his injury against Arsenal in for Young. No. Van Gaal played the only possible team available. The second half substitutions all made sense. For all his pace Wilson is doing a Hernandez Season One &Two. He loses the ball everytime. He has done little to suggest we can depend on him upfront RIGHT NOW. I was actually praying that Van Gaal wouldn't throw him in there because the last thing you need is a clumsy jittery forward. Careful there with the assumptions. I still believe Wilson has got what it takes. Just not yet. Just like McNair. Quite honestly Van Gaal needs to sit him down. The most nervous of a generally nervous back three. Blackett is a better option for me.

3. There was nothing wrong with the formation. Let's not act like we didn't make Hugo Lloris earn his wage and then some. We were totally all over their goal and they hardly did anything of note themselves. It's not the formation. It was the shocking finishing from four of the league's best finishers. Mata Rooney Falcao RvP all missed the kind of goals you would expect them to bury sleepwalking. I dont think we will witness worse finishing and penalty box football like that in a long time. We used the same tactics to great effect on Friday and in the first half today. We just got tired.

Sparkz. It looks like when we have only few chances a game we will take them and when we have plenty are becoming careless. Maybe it is a psychological things, like wasting chances when you are ahead.
We missed luck with our disallowed goal, that's all I think. Players were tired in the second half due to lack of options on the bench.

In other news,Mourinho is a total douchebag. I really can't stand that guy. Now he is saying there is a campaign against his team by the referees. He says they refuse to give his team penalty kicks with Fabregas being the fourth player I think this season to be booked for simulation for Chelsea.

@Mirainashe - Oh yeah, Wilson is still very raw and loses the ball a lot. BUT just his freshness, energy and pace would have automatically made the Spurs backline drop back. Meaning their midfield would have to drop back (giving Carrick and Rooney some breathing space) - or if they didn't do that, then Mata gets an extra few yards to work his magic.

(As a sidenote, let's not forget that when Hernandez replaced Berba two thirds of the way through the 2010/11 season, we played our best football of the season. Purely because he stretched defenders, giving the likes of Rooney and Carrick more room to operate.)

In any case, Falcao and RVP simply couldn't make the ball stick up front, and they're our experienced Number 9's. I think that's maybe the one sub LVG could have gone with that he didn't.

Probably. But I also think Evans and McNair were very close to being liabilities there. In the end the defenders were continuously hitting hopeless long balls to no one. I think funny enough the two front men were completely starved of service. But they completely wasted every opportunity Mata was creating in the first half so doubt they could have done better. Well given that Wilson was the freshest off that bench maybe we could have tried him come to think of it. He might have fluffed his lines but he could've stretched the defenders to exhaustion. I think I'm getting what you saying now. But I'm wondering how a tired McNair and Evans would have done in the latter moments of the game. I hope those two take a rest for a while. They make me extremely nervous

I'm watching the game we played against Chelsea and two things become clear.

1. Smalling and Rojo cannot return sooner. Totally had things under control. I'm not trying to be funny here but I'm thinking this could be our Rio-Rio-Vidic combo. Rio being Smalling for cool defending and icy veins and on the ball composure. Rojo being a combination of Rio and Vidic adding steel and physicality. When more marketable defenders do what these guys do they'll cost £40m. Thankfully both Rafael and Shaw are back. We need natural defenders in there. Young and Valencia have not done badly but I want to see players in their best positions. But they have their work cut out for them to displace the two current makeshift fullbacks.

2. We are missing pace. Di Maria and Januzaj had a mixed game. Di Maria was kinda shocking and Januzaj was no Mata in decision making. But the speed on the counter was a big weapon. Januzaj's duel with Ivanovic was particularly fascinating. Everytime Di Maria was on the ball Chelsea were shitting their pants. The problem with our current lineup is a lack of pace both in running dribbling and passing. Rooney is admirable in midfield but he is no Herrera. He is not in natural territory so tends to be kind of cautious. Herrera moves all over that midfield. Zipping passes and give and gos. Rooney kinda plays a more limited midfield role. He doesn't seek the ball all the time because he is a forward by trade and is kinda waiting for the attack. Falcao Mata and RvP in attack is not the quickest. It's a very Italian attack that relies heavily on technique and efficiency and a great deal of intelligence. But sometimes you need raw pace. Valencia has it but is a bit erratic and one dimensional in attack. Young's final ball is always a lottery. He has been good both in attack and defense but maybe we need more quality out wide. I don't know if Shaw can do better but certainly we hope for better end product on the left from Di Maria.

Van Gaal is also a tactical genius. I know people hate this 5-3-2 formation but the guy knows what he is doing. I honestly think we could be worse off but Van Gaal so far has been on point. A few mistakes here and there but for the most part he has shown that world class ability. The movement between Falcao RvP and Mata is brilliant. Forget the misses. The way they run off each other is world class. The "group defense" system is also impressive.

I have a funny feeling this could be a gradual start of City Imploding. There mini exciting run has come to an abrupt end. The likes of Yaya Toure will only play well if they have motivation otherwise they are big time shit. Aguero is not going to be available for another 2-3 weeks so they could screw things up.

Stoke game has now become kind of important to us. If we had won against either of Villa or Spurs then I would have taken a draw against Stoke but now it would be good if we get the 3 points and move forward. After Stoke we have Soton at Home, QPR (A) , Leicester ( H) so if we get 3 points against Stoke then I think we can have a winning streak in January. Important times ahead.

There's only so many injuries/absences a team can have and play consistently well.
We have done well under the circumstances.
With their strikers out, Kompany catching the manchester relapsing central defence injury virus, and Yaya Toure off to the African Cup of Nations, we'll see what they are made off!

People are blaming fatigue. I agree to a certain extent, but let's not forget this is not an inclusive problem. Pretty much every other teams suffer from fatigue too. Let's not forget that Spurs had a game on the 26th and their schedule was tighter than us.

I notice that the minute the second half got started they pressed us higher and almost immediately. Rooney and Carrick were closed down quicker. The back line They played more aggressively which I think requires more energy to pull off. They did not let the back 3 settled either.

I do agree they were tired, but having a limited option on the bench LVG just could not give a proper respond to Pochetino's change of tactic. The later won in my opinion. Our selection from the bench was simply odd (injuries? yeah I know).

And injury is our main concern too. I think at this point we're so accustomed to hearing a player gets injured, to a point where it just sounds ridiculous. They need to investigate what the problems are and find a solution. Doing a patch here and there, mending those who are injured, ARE NOT the solution to the bigger problem we have which is a constant stream of injuries. It almost feels like you can sense the pattern. They really need to get this fixed asap!

I think you need to look at the gameagain if you have not understood lvgs substitution
Let me hep you

Valencia got injured so Rafa came. After 60th min you could see evans was struggling so LVG btought on Smalling. The thrid sub was very crucial, he did not want to screw up by asking mcnair to deal with the spurs fresh players. So he changed Mcnair, yes he could have brought on Wilsom but looking at last couple of matches Wilson is not a super sub. He doesnt have that big an impact so dont know how it would have worked today.

The problem today was we did not have good subs available. Spurs had good options unlike us. If we had a di maria or herrera then things would have been different. Like you I am unhappy with our missed chances but I wont say Spurs manager did anything special. We just had to stick with what we had. Spurs had attacking options available but we did not.

We've done amazingly well considering our situation. Having said that most teams in the leage aren't that good. Yes they can be difficult to play against and can get the odd surprise result, but those games shuld be three pointers. I think we can get third spot and the following year elevate the quality to that of the others in the unofficial "super league" where we were for so many years under Fergie. LVG is doing a fantastic job. The players are responding well. My only worry is the amount of injuries. It's alarming and holding back even further progress. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

I think people are underestimating teams in the league. This season every team in the league is playing cup finals week by week. You look at Newcastle. We beat them comfortably and people think they ain't nothing. They beat Chelsea properly and have dangerous players. You find a team of Everton's quality struggling. You find Spurs struggling. You find Arsenal competing well in the CL and struggling in the EPL. Man City have given Bayern a run for their money in the group stages and are drawing Burnley. This is definitely the most underrated season in Premier League history. Smaller teams are now getting thinking coaches. It's now very tactical. You look at Koeman at Southampton and how he is playing his team game by game. Very versatile. One game attacking. Another game counter attack. Sam Alladyce making West Ham a team of steel. Hard to break down and dangerous on the break. Sometimes we need to get with the program. The big money is leveling the playing field. Newcastle are fielding World Cup internationals like Janmaat in their defense. We know the likes of Papiss Cisse are nothing to be trifled with. The quality has gone up a notch. Definitely.

As for fatigue. Everyone in the league was affected hence the many dropped points and draws. Playing two high intensity games in less than 48hrs is not ideal for anyone. Spurs were also showing the same fatigue. It's taxing on any athlete because you have to play at your maximum in competitive sport. You lose that sharpness and that edge and you can't maintain the same level of energy. It's a money centered idea by the PL. They get to be relevant at a critical period in TV year with their competitors taking a break

1. Wayne Rooney
2. Robin Van Persie (shocker of the year as he has played more minutes than everyone bar De Gea)
3. Juan Mata
4. Michael Carrick
5. Maroune Fellaini(I'm excluding illness or contact injuries)
6. Ashley Young

So it's basically the same culprits getting injured all the time. Why are other players not getting injured? If it's the training then surely Van Persie given his record should be the first one down. I'm thinking maybe it's the individual players. Di Maria came with a muscle injury record. The likes of Smalling Evans Jones Rafael are permanent crocks. Falcao is simply unfit. Herrera I can't guess. I don't think there's much to investigate. We just have injury prone players. I've watched Di Maria before at Madrid. He can be too excited sometimes. Pulling his hamstring is as common as making assists. He can get too enthusiastic. I think we need to device special training for the weak players/patients. Get them on specialist courses and yoga them or something

smalling, injury prone? hes only had 1 serious injury since he started professional football and that was a metatarsal fracture which kept him out for 15 games in 12/13. other then that its little things like hamstring injuries that keep him out for no longer then a fortnight
jones in his first season of 2011/12 didnt have one single injury. the season after that he started getting moved into places like midfield and that involved him being rotated and thats when the injurys started getting him. how do you know its not the rotation injuring him?
di maria has missed in total 23 games in his entire career due to injury and you now say he is injury prone?
herrera, missed 20 games in total in his entire career, and thats injury prone now?
falcao has had a serious injury recently but looked solid since he has came back into it

and then to top it off you say ashley young is fit all or most of the time? - he has missed 40 games for united due to injury
and even fellaini who has missed 61 games for both united and everton you say he is fine? (and i am only including the injuries that keep him out for 6 games or more so not just illness or contact injuries)
RVP missed 22 games last year cause of injury and you say he is fine?

i would love to know your criteria to call a player injury prone. afterall almost our entire squad has gone through an injury this year so how do you split the injury prone from the apparently always fit players?

i would recommend taking into account there was a world cup this year and all the players are currently getting used to new training methods which seem to be very labour intensive. injuries were bound to happen. wait till next season to judge.

1. I'm not talking about serious injuries or non serious injuries. Over the past few seasons Smalling Jones and Evans and Rafael have been sidelined constantly with injuries. Whether with small or serious injuries. Those are the facts. When people talk about how the injury issue at United is a problem those are the players that are constantly injured. No one can argue against that.

2. Di Maria has always struggled with MUSCLE injuries. Which is what I said. Hamstring in particular. I was merely pointing out that the whole over training card is unlikely because with Di Maria it's nothing new. He is not getting injuries he never got before.

3. Herrera this is what I said. I CAN'T GUESS. I'm also talking about THIS season when it comes to new players. Herrera has been out three times since he came. Di Maria was unfit during the World Cup and even with Madrid towards end of last season. Falcao has been unfit or injured which is why he has not played many games. I thought that was clear.
4. The rationale of my post seems clear. It's the same players getting injured whilst others seem to play every game. Therefore it can't be over training because we would have a more varied list and more frequency. Whether rotation is the cause for players like Jones getting injured is not the opinion. He is on that list because he has an injury record and no one is shocked to see Jones injured because that's what he does. Robin van Persie has not been injured since his recovery so why the hell would I put him on that list?

That list is based on what is transpiring this season. People saying it's the training methods that need to be looked at and I'm saying even Robin van Persie seems to be doing fine with the CURRENT training. Same as Rooney and a bunch of others. So why is it the same people getting injured this season repeatedly? Hence Serial injury.

It's kinda like when you hear that Rio has a back injury and then people say it's over training. No. He does back injuries like Di Maria does muscular injuries. Nothing new. Just like Phil Jones Rafael Evans Smalling have been injured several times before it's nothing new today.