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I don't think we have been on that subject for some time ....The OP "If dog needs handling on way to mark, gun retired, does the dog learn anything about marking?" Steve S

Ahah!

Ok, so now I think you are saying that maybe no, dog may not be learning about marking, if you have to handle...BUT sometimes you have to handle, and forget about the mark (as others have said), if dog is being naughty?

Howard, if u use the sheep bleat baaaaack out there, it can be made to be heard on the longest of blinds.
Mitty
A permission cast, usually a cast with a specific tone of voice added, when given cues the dog to get out
If he gets a "normal" cast, even right into the shore, he is to stay wet.

Ok, so now I think you are saying that maybe no, dog may not be learning about marking, if you have to handle...BUT sometimes you have to handle, and forget about the mark (as others have said), if dog is being naughty?

Still wondering about the "permission cast"...

Sigh...I sound like Gooser,,,,

Please refer to post #53...Steve S

"Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

To your red comments within my previous comment, maybe it's semantics but I don't like to let a dog show what it intends to do on a 2-down-the-shore setup. I prefer to handle as soon as the dog makes it's first move to the shore while in the water if it is short of the long gun (in the example I gave). And I would do that consistently in training that dog for it's entire competitive life when it encounters a down-the-shore mark. Once the dog has been taught the correct line to a down the shore mark, then I will not only handle but I also eventually nick the dog before I cast, again assuming the dog has been previously taught the correct line to a down the shore bird. But considering that a dog might not remember the mark if retired I have to also consider where the dog is in its level of training.

IF the young dog has been taught to run through cover, then yes I would handle. If the young dog has not been taught how to deal with that factor then I would have preferred to not run where that factor was in play, assuming the mark itself was the focus. To your 2nd question, I can't assume anything. If I handle because the dog avoided a factor then the factor becomes the primary consideration, the mark itself becomes secondary so I would probably use gun help to get the dog to the AOF if by handling through the cover it caused the dog's focus to change. Virtually anytime your handle to get a correct response to a factor, retrieving the actual mark will become secondary.

Thanks for posting this. Sometimes it's hard to take training advice and apply it correctly but this explanation is very clear .