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About Mei's Artificial eye - how the hell is this supposed to work?
Please note how she said that she sees with ther artificial eye.

I actually looked it up yesterday, and there were no signs of an occular prethesis being able to heelp you gain even the slightest ability to see anything, especially not as clearly as Mei does.
A visual preothesis could do that, she wouldn't need a dolls eye for that though, another problem with it is that they have removed her original eye and the only know implant sending electronic pulses directly to the brain is easily identified as a prothesis...

Well, given it's an artificial eye with the paranormal ability to perceive death, I'm not sure how much medical science we can apply to it Given it's essentially a magical eye, I suppose seeing with the help of it isn't out of the question. Sadly, I think reason doesn't really apply to it.

A bit of a shame, because while the setting certainly has supernatural in it, it has been confined to the phenomenon thus far (as far as we are aware of anyway). Feels like a slightly "cheap" way to help them identify the Another so they can just move on with said part and plan how to kill it instead (and finding whether they have the courage to do so), but ah well :/

I'm not bothered much by how mei's left eye's works, but I'm more curious on why the phenomenon, who alters everything, doesn't alter something so relevant as an eye who can see its. Why is Mei's eye over the rules? She has to have some connection with the phenomenon. So I'm expecting some revelation about that, too.

__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.

I'm not bothered much by how mei's left eye's works, but I'm more curious on why the phenomenon, who alters everything, doesn't alter something so relevant as an eye who can see its. Why is Mei's eye over the rules? She has to have some connection with the phenomenon. So I'm expecting some revelation about that, too.

Referring to the part of your post that I put in bold.

You bring up a good point. Now it makes me wonder.. why does the phenomenon leave alone something that's potentially a threat to it like Mei's eye?

Well, given it's an artificial eye with the paranormal ability to perceive death, I'm not sure how much medical science we can apply to it Given it's essentially a magical eye, I suppose seeing with the help of it isn't out of the question. Sadly, I think reason doesn't really apply to it.

A bit of a shame, because while the setting certainly has supernatural in it, it has been confined to the phenomenon thus far (as far as we are aware of anyway). Feels like a slightly "cheap" way to help them identify the Another so they can just move on with said part and plan how to kill it instead (and finding whether they have the courage to do so), but ah well :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya

I'm not bothered much by how mei's left eye's works, but I'm more curious on why the phenomenon, who alters everything, doesn't alter something so relevant as an eye who can see its. Why is Mei's eye over the rules? She has to have some connection with the phenomenon. So I'm expecting some revelation about that, too.

Well you could actually say its a visual implant, then you could assume that technology can still differ real from fake (a camera can do that too as seen on Ritsuko's class picture) . So it would work. Mei's is seemingly just aestethical though. Don't misunderstand; she would be able to see with a visual prethesis too, just not as good as she does atm.(and would most likely need glasses)
Most Fanasy novels with both magic and technology usually render either of them useless by the other - so her eye being a bionic eye might work against the phenomenon.

__________________

Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

I'm not bothered much by how mei's left eye's works, but I'm more curious on why the phenomenon, who alters everything, doesn't alter something so relevant as an eye who can see its. Why is Mei's eye over the rules? She has to have some connection with the phenomenon. So I'm expecting some revelation about that, too.

Hm, I'm not sure if altering a person's vision directly falls within the displayed modus operandi of the phenomenon though, or if it's capable of influencing other supernatural cases. It doesn't seem to be actively preventing people from trying to investigate itself (It could have prevented Akazawa from remembering how she met Koichi ... a memory originally erased, or erasing the tape altogether once they found it), merely doing a one-time alteration of past events (memories and records) to allow Another back in community as if nothing happened.

In other words, anything beyond records and memories (which are a form of records) hasn't been shown as something within the phenomenon's influence. Aside from making people die, obviously. If Chibiki is to believed, it's neither malicious nor sentient/conscious , and as such probably wouldn't do anything beyond providing the initial grounds for Another to exist once again, then running it's natural course.

Yeah, that's the only thing keeping me from getting completely freaked out by the atmosphere. Mei and her legs banzai.

I was so freaked out that I didn't notice the ZR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Spoilers for Kara no Kyoukai:

Spoiler:

Yukito Ayatsuji seems to be a fan of KnK, as Mei's Mystic Doll Eye of Death Perception bears a number of resemblances to Ryougi Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. Mei and Shiki both suffered near-death experiences and returned with the ability to see beyond what normal people can see. The doll eye is not just a placeholder for an otherwise-empty socket, it is actually "mystical" and so grants her the ability to see the color of death in addition to being able to see normally through it. It's not clear if that ability is tied in a physical sense to the doll eye (nor does it matter at this point), for example, if she removed her doll eye and replaced it with another fake eye, does the ability to see the color of death remain within her and work through it or not. In the case of KnK, it's explicitly stated that Shiki's eyes are physically altered from her journey to death's door to give her the ability to see threads of origin, it is not something innate within her.

Hold up. Is it really called "Mystic Doll Eye of Death Perception"? Or is that just a fan coined term? I thought I was original with coming up with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I don't mind that Mei kept the identity of the extra person a secret until now, as was already said, it was doubtful anybody would believe her and she had no idea if knowing the identity of the extra student changed anything anyway. It was better for her to keep her mouth shut. I'm more bothered that her mystic glass eye of the death perception exists in the first place. That makes it all way too convenient. I was hoping Kouichi and his merry gang would have to put some effort into figuring out who Another is, just like we have throughout all these weeks. Nevertheless, their upcoming dilemma shall be very interesting. Will have the spine to kill the extra person -who might be one of their close friend- in cold blood? They can rationalize it by telling themselves they're only putting a dead person back into her grave, but the heart doesn't always listen to what the brain as to say.

I think it's convenient but she did use it to look at Kouichi and then said he wasn't dead. It's not like it was added on in the final volume or anything, it's all one giant novel.

Quote:

By the way, I don't believe anybody has mentioned it yet but based on the way Izumi lamented over his death in her dream (she called him an idiot, as "why did you do that, you idiot!") I think her brother might have been the ignored student who gave up his role half-way through two years ago. It could explain why she was so irritated by Mei, who didn't uphold her role properly just like her brother. Of course, tsunderes like her tend to use the word "baka" often so that may not mean anything

That is a good point. I thought she was doing it because of her feelings towards Kouichi but that is good.

I think it's convenient but she did use it to look at Kouichi and then said he wasn't dead. It's not like it was added on in the final volume or anything, it's all one giant novel.

This and we are supposed to doubt the accuracy of Mei's power. She told us that she sees it strongest in people who are dead and that it is a colour that she can't describe. So it's quite possible that she sees parts of it in people who are about to die as well...it's not like she actively trained and tested this ability. She gained it when she was pretty young and was probably so afraid of it that she decided to keep the eye covered all the time.
Basically it could as well be an optical illusion due to the loss of half of her vision.

That is why she wanted to see the class picture of the 1972 3-3 so badly. It is the only physical evidence of a "dead one" that exists beside the current one. She wanted to be absolutely sure beyond a doubt that she saw the same colour in that person and Yomiyama Misaki.

Hm, I'm not sure if altering a person's vision directly falls within the displayed modus operandi of the phenomenon though, or if it's capable of influencing other supernatural cases. It doesn't seem to be actively preventing people from trying to investigate itself (It could have prevented Akazawa from remembering how she met Koichi ... a memory originally erased, or erasing the tape altogether once they found it), merely doing a one-time alteration of past events (memories and records) to allow Another back in community as if nothing happened.

In other words, anything beyond records and memories (which are a form of records) hasn't been shown as something within the phenomenon's influence. Aside from making people die, obviously. If Chibiki is to believed, it's neither malicious nor sentient/conscious , and as such probably wouldn't do anything beyond providing the initial grounds for Another to exist once again, then running it's natural course.

since I'm speculating a bit, not much, I'll put it under spoiler tags

Spoiler for speculations:

Yes, it would fit well the supposed unconsciousness nature of the phenomenon, even if it is quite scrupulous, for not being sentient, it erases only the relevant part within a whole process of investigation, more like it didn't work in advance, but along the story, as with the Kuoichi's father case, it looked unready of that accident. Even with the tape it erased only the old Another's name and not the whole tape or the memory of it. Like it was not omniscient. But like it was ... sentient. A student would fit well that logic of erasing. I'm stating the obvious here, I know. Ok, sorry I went astray a little. eheh
Speaking of Akazawa dream, it is something that shouldn't have happened, if it was a real Another doing. Or so I think.

Anyways what I was trying to do in my previous post was to connect the two supernatural cases. Because, you know, one supernatural case is cool, two are too much So I'd like to connect them together. But you are right that even if the phenomenon is sentient or not it alters the less he could to go on. It is not bothered by who but by what. It acts like a filter.
Plus we don't know yet what would happen if Mei said that name. But if she should say it for real there is only one way we could think of for the pehnomenon to prevent her to say it aloud . . . . . . . . kill her.

__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.

This and we are supposed to doubt the accuracy of Mei's power. She told us that she sees it strongest in people who are dead and that it is a colour that she can't describe. So it's quite possible that she sees parts of it in people who are about to die as well...

That is exactly what she said – she can see the color in people who are close to death or have a serious (IOW, life-threatening) injury or illness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Either way, it's strongly implied that she didn't know who the dead one was.

I mean, why else would she ask herself "who is the dead one?".

I think that question should be interpreted as: "Who is the real dead one?" Take in mind that she was ignored by the time she was placed behind at desk (it wasn't the one she originally was siting at, after all), she was seen as being non-existent (or, dead). I think that was a question for the others to find out and work with, not Mei herself.

I'm sure she already knew who the dead ones was at the time she wrote it. When Kouichi asked her if she knew who the real dead one is, she said she did. And that was implied several times in this episode and others.

That tape sure brought some light to the whole thing.
Now all that's left is to find the extra student and kill him/her.
That didn't help much 'cause figuring out who it is is the main problem.
There must be something that is different..
Guess that eye could help a lot.
This anime is getting more interesting by the episode!!

Yes, it would fit well the supposed unconsciousness nature of the phenomenon, even if it is quite scrupulous, for not being sentient, it erases only the relevant part within a whole process of investigation, more like it didn't work in advance, but along the story, as with the Kuoichi's father case, it looked unready of that accident. Even with the tape it erased only the old Another's name and not the whole tape or the memory of it. Like it was not omniscient. But like it was ... sentient. A student would fit well that logic of erasing. I'm stating the obvious here, I know. Ok, sorry I went astray a little. eheh
Speaking of Akazawa dream, it is something that shouldn't have happened, if it was a real Another doing. Or so I think.

Anyways what I was trying to do in my previous post was to connect the two supernatural cases. Because, you know, one supernatural case is cool, two are too much So I'd like to connect them together. But you are right that even if the phenomenon is sentient or not it alters the less he could to go on. It is not bothered by who but by what. It acts like a filter.
Plus we don't know yet what would happen if Mei said that name. But if she should say it for real there is only one way we could think of for the pehnomenon to prevent her to say it aloud . . . . . . . . kill her.

Well I think the anime left out or forgot to underline one important term in context of how the phenomenon functions. That word is coherency.

Spoiler:

There is no real thought process behind the phenomenon and the ensuing calamity, it is basically only an event in which elements of our conscious world are altered in order to make everything coherent. But like most events it is not omnipotent as it's effective area and overall power are limited.
In order for the "one person more" to be a believable part of class it's past records have to be altered so far that it creates a coherent picture of a student of the 3rd year of middle school. There are 2 possible examples for this:

Someone who was previously a student of the 3-3 like Asakura Mami. She was 14 (became 15) in 1993 making her born in 1978, but in order for her to be in the 3-3 in 1996 she had to be born in 1981 and can not have previously visited any class 3 of middle school (especially in a country like Japan where repeating courses is simply not done).
For this picture to be coherent there is a great deal of changes to be done.

Someone who was not a student of the 3-3 like Yomiyama Misaki's younger brother. He was the first "one person more" and was simply a new face in school...maybe he even was 13 in 1972 making him a possible student of a third class in 1973 and thus only his death had to be hidden in order to make his appearance in Yomi North's 3-3 coherent.

Elements like families not living together or people actively moving in and out of town seems to be something that is not entirely covered by the phenomenon. You could say that it is partly because of how the circumstances were when the curse started and how life changed.
Then we can return to the metaphor of the "supernatural natural disaster". The event in itself only changes slightly if the sorroundings affect it, but otherwise it's rather the lifes of people that change around a consistent phenomenon. Like an annual flood doesn't change only our reactions toward it, as well as possible countermeassures.

The same applies to the tape. The person that returned in that year went back to being dead which is a state that started in any year before 1983. But it is a fact that something happened which made people die in 1983 as well. People being able to record their experiences is outside the range of the phenomenon's influence. It is merely natural coherency that the dead person's name in the context of him being alive would vanish from 1983.

Mei said that her mother (adopted mother) made her that glass eye. How did it gain the ability to see dead people all of a sudden? (Edit: I mean, she did mention earlier in the series that she was able to see ghosts with this eye but how did she gain that ability to begin?) Does her ability have any connection with the fact that her twin is dead...possibly channeling this spiritual energy to her? (I wonder if ep 0 will answer some of this.)

I don't really buy the suggestion that Mei doesn't reveal her ability because she doesn't think anyone will believe her. I'm more incline to believe that she didn't reveal it sooner because she felt it would have been useless before the tape, and also because she was in denial of her ability for some time there along with her twin's death (she even admitted this herself in this episode). Given the desperate situation class 3-3 is in, and how they all believe in the calamity, any knowledge that would help them survive, no matter how farfetch, would have been wholly or even partially well received. I mean the class of 1993 went as far as climbing a mountain to a deteriorating temple to pray for protection clearly indicates that the students are open to any possible suggestion that would help them resolve this and remain alive.

It is strange how endearing are moments of Mei and Kouichi even in this soulcrushing atmoshepre. Teshigawa topped his last episode moron of the year feat.

I have a feeling someone snaps and starts to lop the heads off of the whole class. I would rule Mikami out since as far I remember she was one of the students of the class 3. If she is another noone should remember her existing. (Maybe i'm baised and don't want her to be hurt. Damn you preview.)
I was certain that it is always a boy who comes back as another reading comments looks I was wrong that is where not watching episodes careful enough comes biting you in the ass.

Izumi's dream is unsettling at first i thought she is having a wet dream. She has been throwing strange looks in his direction during the whole series. That memory alteration thing been bugging me for a while now. Does it mean everybody in town sees not only the another but also place he lives, his parents and so on? Besides what kind of affect would it have if Kouichi's memory of meeting altered? Since as far I understood only fake memory are implanted of nonexisting person and Izumi happen to be the dead meaning Kouichi should have memorized her not Izumi him.

Another questions that is still unanswered is what incident is Reiko trying to remember.

Thank you for that post. You're feeding us some great clarifying information from the novel, and that post makes the conversation Dengar and I were having over the nature of the phenomenon sound silly in retrospect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Please note that Kouichi's name is at the very bottom of the list, so he might have been added at a later time. Whoever edited the list simply didn't bother to change the date.

That seems dubious; it's a printed document with 3/3 written on the top, so someone would've had to reopen the file and add a row for Kouichi without changing the date. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in real life, because it often does (to my personal frustration...why wouldn't you just use =TODAY() in Excel?), but I'm saying that it would be bad storywriting for that to be the case.

If I remember, one of novel readers on AS said that Kouichi's dad had arranged the transfer well in advance. There is no reason not to believe that, as of the beginning of the school year, there were 30 students on the roster. 30 students in the class, 29 desks. I think it's as simple as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

If Ms Mikami were the Other, then, by right, people shouldn't remember that she was the assistant teacher of the Class of 96, since she would have presumably died that year and has now returned.

I don't believe the Another is Ms. Mikami. But, hypothetically, consider this: if a student returns as the Another, all memories and records of them have to erased. Why would a student from 1993 be back in class in 1996, unless they were incredibly incompetent and held back three years in a row? And even then there wouldn't be any memories of them from 1994 and 1995. But, in the case of a homeroom teacher, there's nothing odd about being in the same class in a later year. Ms. Mikami was a teacher in 1996, and then she came back as an assistant teacher again in 1998. Nothing out of the ordinary.

So, the phenomenon wouldn't necessarily have to alter the memory of Ms. Mikami being a homeroom teacher -- it would only have to alter the memory of her dying as a homeroom teacher.

(That sounds really farfetched, but I enjoy hypotheticals.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I forgot to mention, but I thought this episode did a great job humanizing Mei. Her most cryptic words and actions were given a believable explanation. Her reason for brining that doll to the morgue -something that appeared to be damn creepy back then- was even given a touching reason. This episode confirmed once and for all that Mei is just a normal girl. A very moe one.

Agreed to all. She's the deepest and most compelling character of the season.

I think anyone who denies a supernatural component at this point is grasping pretty hard at straws, so in that context, why try and explain Mei's eye scientifically? It's a magic eye. It may not make sense from a medical standpoint, but there's a certain suspension of disbelief in the premise to begin with. And this ability of her eye to see things supernaturally has already been discussed much earlier in the series, so I don't think anyone should be shocked to hear it now.

Alternatively, Mei could have some reality issues and the whole business with her eye could be a figment of her imagination. It's possible.

I think anyone who denies a supernatural component at this point is grasping pretty hard at straws, so in that context, why try and explain Mei's eye scientifically? It's a magic eye. It may not make sense from a medical standpoint, but there's a certain suspension of disbelief in the premise to begin with. And this ability of her eye to see things supernaturally has already been discussed much earlier in the series, so I don't think anyone should be shocked to hear it now.

Alternatively, Mei could have some reality issues and the whole business with her eye could be a figment of her imagination. It's possible.

The main problem here is that we don't know about what kind of artificial eye it is as you have to differ between occular and visual implants.
Other than that it was just something I noticed and looked up for that sake yesterday. Her being able to perceive the trtuh is not necessary to solve it.
You can actually figure the most important part halfway through the story, the rest is just additional hints for everyone having dissmissed it as it got split all over the story.
They even gave us the most essential part of the clue another time in EP 10. - I doubt people will find it though.

__________________

Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

I couldn't agree more with you. My interpretation of Izumi's intentions was exactly the same, that's why I was disappointed in her for acting that way. Her attitude looks even worse from our point of view, since we know Mei has been trying to avoid Kouichi and push him away to no avail. She's done the best she could under the circumstances. It's not her fault Kouichi wouldn't leave her alone.

I can't blame Izumi for needing to vent her frustration (especially since there was a deeper reason behind it like her brother's death) but what she did was still plain wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I think it's convenient but she did use it to look at Kouichi and then said he wasn't dead. It's not like it was added on in the final volume or anything, it's all one giant novel.

Yes, it didn't come out of nowhere so it's not like it's a Deus ex machina. That doesn't mean I have to like it though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreSage

Mei said that her mother (adopted mother) made her that glass eye. How did it gain the ability to see dead people all of a sudden? (Edit: I mean, she did mention earlier in the series that she was able to see ghosts with this eye but how did she gain that ability to begin?) Does her ability have any connection with the fact that her twin is dead...possibly channeling this spiritual energy to her? (I wonder if ep 0 will answer some of this.)

I doubt any explanation will be given. I'm assuming she gained that ability because she came close to death and that it doesn't really have anything to do with the glass eye itself (i.e, it's not the eye itself that's magical, but her eye socket... something like that).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakuromatsu

That seems dubious; it's a printed document with 3/3 written on the top, so someone would've had to reopen the file and add a row for Kouichi without changing the date. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen in real life, because it often does (to my personal frustration...why wouldn't you just use =TODAY() in Excel?), but I'm saying that it would be bad storywriting for that to be the case.

If I remember, one of novel readers on AS said that Kouichi's dad had arranged the transfer well in advance. There is no reason not to believe that, as of the beginning of the school year, there were 30 students on the roster. 30 students in the class, 29 desks. I think it's as simple as that.

Actually, I just realized something: there's no date on the roster

3-3 is the class. San-nen san-gumi.

I'm only going by what we were told (or not) in the anime. I've tried to look for it but couldn't any mention of when Kouichi's transfer was decided. What I do know, however, is that some of the students (like Nakao, he said that in ep 4 when they were discussion Kouichi's transfer) believed it was a "safe year" until Kouichi came. Why would they assume that? If they had known from the start Kouichi was going to transfer, they should have noticed right away that a desk was missing, and yet they apparently didn't.

I doubt any explanation will be given. I'm assuming she gained that ability because she came close to death and that it doesn't really have anything to do with the glass eye itself (i.e, it's not the eye itself that's magical, but her eye socket... something like that).

My personal theory is that Mei's adopted mother might have had it blessed by a priest or priestess to help Mei avoid death. After all if she's as obsessed with Mei as Mei herself says she is it wouldn't be to out of place to this she would go that fare to insure Mei's safety.