Posted
by
timothyon Saturday March 19, 2011 @05:41AM
from the first-you'll-need-this-fake-antidote dept.

An anonymous reader writes "UK Internet users were on the receiving end of a large drive-by web attack at the end of February, which attempted to push fake antivirus at least 750,000 times on a single day alone, security company AVG has said. According to a company analysis, on Sunday 27 February, detection levels for the previously obscure Russian 'Blackhole' exploit kit suddenly spiked to 900,000 globally from a few tens of thousands that would be typical for such kits, before dropping back again. Unusually, almost 750,000 of these detections were for UK PCs, which offers a baseline for what must have been a sustained attack several times that size against mainstream web servers frequented by users in the country."

What the hell are you talking about? 99.9% of the viruses affect Windows and only Windows, which, correct me if I'm wrong, last time I checked was LESS open than OS X. And if you want a totally safe, totally open OS, go with Linux. Your post contains lots of words but about 0 actual content.

No OS is totally safe.
Much of the safety of linux comes from its small market share and because the people that run linux are often more security conscientious than those that run other operating systems.

I think what people here are getting at is not IF something can be done (it obviously can), but whether "The Bad Guys", actually are willing to go through the effort to do it. It's a simple business choice:

1) You try exploiting a system that has MANY documented holes and that its users are more than likely less security conscientious than other tighter systems; ergo, unlikely to cancel credit cards in time or change passwords.

2) You try exploiting a system where it's generally harder to implement a successful exploit and where its users are more likely to reset their security in a blink of an eye if they smell foul play.

That's not what I mean, that is what everybody mean with that term. And no MS was never fined for preinstalling software. They where fined because they tried to use their monopoly in market to gain market shares in another market, is that still so hard to understand? It's not like it hasn't been discussed and explained before...

And no MS was never fined for preinstalling software. They where fined because they tried to use their monopoly in market to gain market shares in another market, is that still so hard to understand?

Then what's the rule distinguishing one instance of preinstalling, which is abuse of monopoly, from another instance of preinstalling, which you claim is not abuse of monopoly? Including an SSH client would help Microsoft gain market share in the market in which VanDyke Software and Tectia compete.

Well such is the life of having a monopoly, then you are much more limited in what you can do. Which is naturally. But that don't change the fact that MS cannot include preinstalled software, they include a lot of preinstalled software.

With Windows Media Player they where fined because they included it not to enable people to play media, but to use their OS monopoly to sell streaming servers for media (since the WMP out of the box didn't play any other formats than their own and it was impossible to licen

It also helps that most Windows computers are used by people who have little idea of how a computer works or good security practice. This can't be held entirely to blame - after all, OSX is targetted at users with a similar level of knowledge - but it does go a long way towards explaining why linux is so much more secure.

I like to fiddle with computers as much as anyone else, but oddly enjoy having an iPhone that just does and is locked down. So perhaps the way forward is to ship products that are, by default, locked up tighter than an iPhone but with the option to incrementally relax restrictions. This way the average user who couldn't care less about what is going on under the hood and is susceptible to drive-by attacks is fairly safe. But then those who would like to fiddle and are probably a lot more security conscious have the freedom they need. I also think that continual updates don't help much. The average user does just want a machine that they can use to browse the internet, type the odd letter, and so on. Continually pushing new versions of this and that gets them into the habit of updating and installing stuff they don't understand. It might be better to encourage these people to take their machine in for a regular service to someone who knows what they are doing, same as a car.

It might be better to encourage these people to take their machine in for a regular service to someone who knows what they are doing, same as a car.

It would be better just to do silent updates. Many people don't take their car for regular servicing, and even if they waited a couple of days, their machine could be pwned by then, credit card/banking info stolen, etc..

I like to fiddle with computers as much as anyone else, but oddly enjoy having an iPhone that just does and is locked down. So perhaps the way forward is to ship products that are, by default, locked up tighter than an iPhone but with the option to incrementally relax restrictions. This way the average user who couldn't care less about what is going on under the hood and is susceptible to drive-by attacks is fairly safe. But then those who would like to fiddle and are probably a lot more security conscious have the freedom they need.

That's much like Andriod behaves together with the Google store. The Google store provides the safety catch and you can get around that if you want to. A difference is that it does not rely on code inspection, so there is more chance of bad programs getting through. It also does not protect as much against programs that are just badly designed or are careless regarding security/privacy. The access conditions make sure that applications cannot just access any API even if you use another store or direct download. E.g. a game would require me to allow it to use phone functions.

I also think that continual updates don't help much. The average user does just want a machine that they can use to browse the internet, type the odd letter, and so on. Continually pushing new versions of this and that gets them into the habit of updating and installing stuff they don't understand. It might be better to encourage these people to take their machine in for a regular service to someone who knows what they are doing, same as a car.

I'm sorry, but that's a very bad idea. Even applications that are not susceptible to buffer overflows and other low level memory management related attacks are vulnerable to other kinds of attacks. If I would have a banking application on my mobile, I would like to make sure that it is up to date. Hey, maybe there is a bug in the SSL handling where they allow third party certs to be accepted.

The trick is to let the OS handle the updates, and make applications resistant against these updates. Again, with Android you get continuous messages that your application update won't harm your user data (and configuration, most of the time). That said, Android 2.1 has only been given auto-update functionality some time ago, and users need to activate it themselves. It would be a good idea to make that a access condition/setting as well for security relevant applications.

The problem with updates is that many people associate it with the (old) windows way of doing updates. Some kind of application specific updater (within the app itself or as a service/tray icon) indicates that there is an update. The user then has to go through X steps for the update to take place, shutting down all the required applications. Then the user may even be asked to do a restart, and should pray that the update went successfully. It's just so stupid if you have an operating system that does not even reliably let you manage your applications, it's just beyond belief.

Unfortunately, developers will immediately require people to disable all those security features. People will say Yes to anything if it makes the messages go away.

When a game demands admin access and requires me to restart my computer after installation, the first thing I ask is, "why?" I don't run those kinds of games on my work computer, knowing full well why a stupid game wants total, unrestricted control over my system. I'd rather buy software that "just works."

I have had to remove several viruses lately. It wasn't by "drive-by web attack", it happened by people getting phone calls or letters through the post, some were even sent CDs and told to install the "AV software". Quite odd, but I have fixed several PCs where people have followed the 'advice' given to them.

I know I have several others to fix because they received phone calls pretending to be their ISP for example.

More and more people will be attracted to the Apple closed garden model.

Only the non creative types who don't care or want to know how computers actually work. Oh wait - fancy that - PC users will end up developing the software for the Mac sheeple that just want to doodle in paintshop all day while telling everyone how wonderful their expensive Macs are.
The problem with the closed garden is that it's a closed garden. That's all well and good if you have no idea what a computer is. But if you want to innovate and write, say, the NEXT clos

No easier, or harder, with gcc or Visual Studio - well, Visual Studio does have the annoying multi-tiered pay for your software model, that's a bit of a time sink, but otherwise, all are competent tools.

Is there a future for open platforms, and what can the FOSS community do to keep them both 1) open and 2) safe?

1) It already is open, so nothing to fix there. I don't run any time wasting virus scanner processes in the background, as I don't need any virus scanner on Linux, not because it more secure, but because I download my apps from an official Ubuntu repository, not random webpages found on the Internet. That doesn't stop bad things from happening, but if they happen that way its unlikely that any other local measurement would have prevented them.

Most people never asked to have a computer. They just want their emails, facebook, youtube and video games. They will be happy with their iPhone iPad, etc...

I long for the time where computers will become a nerd-only item again. Then, maybe, governments will stop making silly laws about silesharing, reverse engineering and DMCAs and will just force Apple or Google to put his or that limitation in their sandboxed mobile operating systems.

I'm not trying to imply that end users need to go all the way and install GNU/Linux on a PC or buy a GNU/Linux based phone or PDA such as the N900 or Pandora. But at least they should buy devices with the option of turning on the equivalent of Android's "Settings > Applications > Unknown sources". Ask anybody who had an idea for a PS3, Wii, or home theater PC game but had to retool it for Xbox 360 (with all its flaws [pineight.com]) because PS3 and Wii have no indie developer program and HTPC penetration is next to

Does it seem to anyone else that the background tasks (like preventing malware) you have to perform in order to use computers have increased to the level where computers aren't fun any more?

Computers have always been un-fun when they don't work. Right now my fancy low-power nVidia card is locking up on me during heavy use... but only in Windows, not in Linux. Hilarious. Trying a beta driver that says nothing about my problem now, because nVidia often fixes problems with nary a mention in the release notes... just like everyone else.

They largely are. These offers of protection tend to download.EXE's since these fake antivirus companies don't waste time on anything that's non-Windows. In addition, a large majority of Mac users don't bother with Antivirus so they simply ignore these. Last but not least, they tend to be less gullible than Windows users.

Last but not least, these types of attacks tend to be fear driven and Windows users simply have more to fear from Viruses than Mac users at the moment. After years of sustained attacks, they are simply much to jumpy and easily frightened to pass up.

I think a lot of people would disagree that Mac users are "less gullible" than windows users. Considering Apple is lauded for being "such a good marketing company that can get people to pay significantly more for a product that the competition charges a bit less and also provides more features" would actually scream to me that "apple buyers are more gullible".

Not trying to say my "fact" is more truthy than yours but hopefully you see the problem with that statement now that is supported by bad statistics fr

I've spent the past month clearing up the fall out of this explosion of Fake AV... It's the most common issue I see on computer in my repair shop these days, and has been for a few years now, but this confirms why it's been so hectic the past couple of weeks!

I am amused that AVG are going on about it when, like the rest of the mainstream antivirus products, AVG itself cannot prevent or remove these Fake AVs- by the time the user brings their computer to me, AVG, or any other antivirus is broken and crying in the corner of C:\Program Files, or just gone completely.

Had a typical midwesterner conversation this morning in college. It wasn't over exactly this antivirus fakeout, but it led up to the flaws behind the antivirus system, namely the symbiotic relationship between virus/antivirus. But the reason the antivirus companies make so much money, and the reason why fake virus attacks work, and so on, is because people are educated from the wrong directions.

This morning, after somebody realised I was a computer programmer they asked if I could hack into computer systems. Once we got past my incredulous phase where I can't believe somebody would ask something like that out in the open in front of other people, it came down to, "no, I can't, or if I can I don't want to".

Do you walk up to people and say "could you jack a car?" "Could you murder somebody?" Just right out in the open, not even meeting them? Try it out like this: do you tell them, "yeah, oh yeah!" You know how much federal time that is, right out the gate? By the time you affirm something like that, it's not the other person's liable time, either, it's yours. Even if it's also illegal to ask in the first place, seeking to conspire over these things and soliciting such skill through such a line of questioning.

But if it's computer hacking, well everybody feels that's a great thing. Everybody wants to know a hacker, see a hack going on. This is why it's very lucrative to make games where a person believes they are hacking a computer system, but never to make it very complex: they wouldn't know a hack if they were one, but they love the idea of trumping all this new-fangled computer nonsense that puts knots in their brains and makes them feel inferior. Oh, if only they could hack the machine and get it out of the damn way and just get down to brass tacks and business.

So I had to weather wave after wave of this guy begging for the reality of the grey-hat market. That maybe it's okay to commit computer crimes because if you get caught, you won't go to jail, the NSA will show up with the men in black and hire you into the upper, upper, uppity echelon of secret dream, top-level, wish fulfillment and instant gratification the real world won't let you have.

He promoted himself as some kind of brilliant business person, because he's spending money to go to college for business. He didn't even know to bring cash with him to do the printing he needed for this uppity business class trip of his, and wasn't independent minded enough to put it together on his own. I explained to him how to put the scanner and the printer together through the computer and pay for it off his printing account instead. I didn't even get a thanks, just a frankly indifferent, self-scolded, urban-culture "yeah that'll work that's cool".

So, when he got on me about where's all the grey hat money money, I told him, it's not supposed to be like that. The systems should be installed properly and used properly the first time. You don't go around giving your housekey away to strangers all in order to sustain the police records filing level industry, do you? You keep your shit secure because you want it. You do that because that's what your instincts want, is security. That's exactly what an employer is thinking, too. They aren't saying, hey, I want holes in my security to hire a grey-hat, so I'm going to go buy a security system, have it installed properly, and then have a mad hatter at the front desk surfing the web from an admin level unpatched windows desktop and taking bathroom breaks with the system password post-it noted over the keyboard numerical pad. That way I can hire a cool-sounded thing, like, the rugged individualist down on his luck who got caught stealing my wife's credit card number and now has been hand-picked by the NSA to come to me to charge me twice for my security: once to point out how I screwed it up and again to install the whole new system.

When I put it to him like that, he said, well, ha-ha, it's obvious you don't know biz-niss. I explained as well as I could that, in fact, he doesn't know bu

But it was another conversation with another one of those potential Jerry Springer guests or what the rest of America refers to as "midwesterners"...

I was born, raised, and currently live in Missouri. Not only that but I drive, get this, a 4 wheel drive truck and own a rifle. Somehow, in spite of all that, I was able to read and comprehend your entire rambling post. I must truly be a diamond in the rough out here in the vast wasteland of drooling idiots that exists between Los Angeles and New York City.

I can almost answer my own question. I've run into too many people who don't WANT to know anything about their computers. Sort of like that old Barbie "Girls aren't good at math" thing, except it's "I'm not a computer person so I'm not GOOD at computers" and they're doing it to themselves. My gut does tell me that this is worse with older people, but not 100%.

This is a complex world, one cannot know about everything. Why would users be interested in the inner workings of anti-virus engines? Even I cannot grasp why *I* am interested in all this while the weather is just beautiful outside. How many people know about the inner workings of their car?

Sorry, but it is the job of the OS and applications to make sure that their users are safe. A good setup certainly should not require any anti-virus applications. Virus scanners are just a patch up job that is required w

At the end of the day, a computer to most people is intended to be a tool for productivity. The device itself is secondary to what I actually want to accomplish.

They don't want (or care) to be "good at computers", they'd just prefer the computer did what they wanted with the least hassle. They just want to print something, look up a recipe, or, apparently, play Farmville.

Similarly, I fly on business... I have no interest in being "good at planes", I just want the damned thing to work, and get me there.

I send this link [youtube.com] to anyone whose computer has been infected that I have been tasked to clean up.
It is a fool me once, shame on me kind of situation. (You would have to be pretty ignorant to fall victim multiple times.)

Hi – I'm the education, right here. I worked as a tech in a mom-and-pop service shop for a bit over two years. People would come in with spyware-infested machines, and rogue antimalware products were often involved. They'd ask why it happened, and we'd explain. And they'd have questions, and we'd explain. And they'd act like they understood, and thank us, pay their bill, and head on their way.

Several times, they came back in again with more of the same problems a few months down the road.

I don't give credence to anything AVG says, since I caught its version 9.0 product red-handed denying me the ability to format any of my disk drives so long as it was installed. It maintained continually open files/folders on every drive, such that Windows would refuse to allow formatting any of them, and not just the boot drive. I uninstalled it and never looked back. The day an AV product denies me the ability to use a fundamental feature of the operating system is the day that product gets the boot.

This happened to my sister, who isn't really a dumb person. After talking with her I've come to establish the profile of an individual that would fall for these kinds of attack:

1. They are very trusting of something when they do trust it. This behavior is often associated with people who do well at school and follow their parents advice/beliefs2. They don't use their computer much anymore, mainly relying on their phone instead3. They own a computer that came pre-installed with an antivirus brand they don't recognize, so all they know about is that they wouldn't recognize it if it gave them a pop-up4. Their anti-virus is expired and they falsely believe an expired anti-virus would detect viruses but refuse to to clean them5. They get this fake virus full screen banner when they visit a trusted website. In my sister's case it was hotmail.com. This leads me to suspect it could had been either a rogue banner or she has a virus on her machine prior to the incident6. Money is not an issue for them so they would rather throw money (and their credit card information) at an immediate problem ("YOUR COMPUTER HAS A VIRUS") than stop and think about the situation they aren't familiar with and try to deduce what is really happening7. They don't read the newspaper in detail much anymore so they miss the millions of columns that have already warned about this scam

Fortunately she called me within minutes of installing the software and realized it all started to be very suspicious. We then got a new credit card number, disputed the charges, and used system restore (which is apparently all that is needed to get rid of this particular fake anti-virus).

Normally you get rogue banners and as JimboFBX has said "5. They get this fake virus full screen banner when they visit a trusted website. In my sister's case it was hotmail.com. This leads me to suspect it could had been either a rogue banner or she has a virus on her machine prior to the incident".This happened to a friend yesterday and I went around to his place to fix his PC. Thankfully it was not a huge issue as I made him buy Malwarebytes a few months ago which is set up to monitor in real time and ha