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I've had so much difficulty over the last few days as to how I wanted to address the whole methamphetamine, ecstasy, alcohol, sex, insert substance/act hereÖ, issue that has been cropping up in the forum and yet for some godforsaken reason I feel terribly compelled to.

Perhaps it is because I have used or abused some of the above in the past and I have my own shame about my own occasional but rare use. Maybe it's because like anything else in the world, I believe that there are some beneficial things about the use of the above (INCLUDING METH) that should be explored. Possibly it's a little of both. Or maybe, just maybe I know from my own experience and the observation of so many others that the way we have been dealing with it up until now has in no way diminished it's experimentation and allowed them to continue to plague us. In any event, I won't point fingers at anyone because we are at least creating dialogue with each other about this issue. Some thing to think about is that the only thing that separates use from abuse is legality.

IMHO I believe one of the biggest problems about addressing these issues is that many of you are quick to wag your fingers and pigeonhole certain drugs as the root of all evil and to be avoided at all costs. I also think it is this level of hysteria and negativity that further propagates their abuse. Especially, as regards methamphetamine within the Gay community. It's so very easy for most of us (society) to easily place the blame on the substance or the act of using. One can even carry the argument to those who have lots of sex as being sex abusers. I believe that this marginalizes the issue and the abuser of that substance or act even further and thus compounds the problem.

We also need to define and draw a very clear distinction between those who use drugs, those who abuse drugs and those who have an addiction. Lumping people into the same categories for brevity's sake or so that a moral high road can be taken, alienates us and shuts out the message to be communicated. And worst of all, it allows us to continue to deny the real issues that absolutely must be addressed if we are to finally get a handle on how these drugs/acts damage our relationships, our health and our way of life. Especially for those of us who have HIV.

Am I ashamed of the fact that I was somewhat addicted to heroin and very addicted to coke? No. Not at all... it was a learning experience, and I have some really bizarre stories to tell at bars that make people laugh... but I was also that kid who had to burn himself on the stove and electrocute himself on the vacuum cleaner to figure out what it was a bad idea.

Matty the Damned agrees with you wholeheartedly. He thinks you make good sense with this post. He suspects, however that the Just Say No crowd will be here soon enough to decry your wicked permissiveness.

If or when that happens. Be proud babe. In controversy there is much honour.

I've been an dedicated follower of the Pleasures of the Flesh for years now. I mean, if it's good enough for the Spectacularly Reverend Ted Haggard then it's good enough for MtD.

I've always loved people who condemn speed freaks and heroin addicts between slugs from a whiskey bottle. Or methheads who freebase up a storm but spit venom at anyone who dares to load up a syringe and inject their drugs.

I need a little more definition of "food" and "alcohol" before I flat-out say that I "used" them. Do you mean "as a crutch?" Because some days, food is all I have. Well, that and beer. Which is a food.

I'm a suck it and see, sorta guy.I've even been dumb enough in the past to crush up e's and inject them. We also invented this silly thing called a triple bypass - shoot up 1/2, snort 1/2 and stick one up ya butt. Messy days, indeed.

I'm a suck it and see, sorta guy.I've even been dumb enough in the past to crush up e's and inject them. We also invented this silly thing called a triple bypass - shoot up 1/2, snort 1/2 and stick one up ya butt. Messy days, indeed.

We used to do something rather similar with heroin.

I was no fan of shooting up (because at the time... ironically enough... I was terrified of catching HIV from a dirty needle and could never find one that was unopened... this is probably how I managed to avoid Hep C)... but the couple times I did... it was shoot half, snort the other half.

I'm a suck it and see, sorta guy.I've even been dumb enough in the past to crush up e's and inject them. We also invented this silly thing called a triple bypass - shoot up 1/2, snort 1/2 and stick one up ya butt. Messy days, indeed.

Hey! I've done that! Well....close anyway. Snort some, swallow some and then some for the bum. Triple bypass...I like that tag. That was the only way I could get E to work on me like it did one everyone else. For some reason, just swallowing it wouldn't last all that long. I would metabolize it way fast. Six hours for everybody else= maybe 2 or 3 hours for me. Until the bypass...

Again....good times. Good times.

PS to Basquo: I think he means the getting really bummed out and coping with a whole tub of ice cream kind of experience.

I need a little more definition of "food" and "alcohol" before I flat-out say that I "used" them. Do you mean "as a crutch?" Because some days, food is all I have. Well, that and beer. Which is a food.

The definitions of the above items are pretty clear. Each individual should define his or her own level of access of the items. Try not to think too deeply about what your answers are. "Use" is use. It is not meant to have a value.

There is of course that uncomfortable squiriming for the first 10 minutes or so when you think the one up the butt is surely gonna fall out or something, till that warm glow from below creeps up on ya.

I remember once after the bypass, we visited a friends mum in hospital (what were we thinking). We then drove back to the hospital in the middle of the night and scoured the footpath out the front for hours on end, sure as sure can be that we had lost the last of our pills there.

I'm just wondering why "food" was included on the list--I totally understand alcohol. Food is a necessity, and while I agree it can be the enemy, I thought, "one of these things is not like the others." I doubt anyone here is going to booty-bump an apple slice, unless it's laced with one of the other listed substances. It just seemed a weird option given late discussions.

I'm just wondering why "food" was included on the list--I totally understand alcohol. Food is a necessity, and while I agree it can be the enemy, I thought, "one of these things is not like the others." I doubt anyone here is going to booty-bump an apple slice, unless it's laced with one of the other listed substances. It just seemed a weird option given late discussions.

My ex went from 195 when we met up to well over 350 lbs in nine years. His food problems co-incided exactly with his dependancy on opioids. He once took 85 Percocets in the course of a week-end, too.

It's yet another something to fill the void.

Brent(Who is NOT a chubby chaser)

Logged

Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

I'm just wondering why "food" was included on the list--I totally understand alcohol. Food is a necessity, and while I agree it can be the enemy, I thought, "one of these things is not like the others." I doubt anyone here is going to booty-bump an apple slice, unless it's laced with one of the other listed substances. It just seemed a weird option given late discussions.

Basquo, I dare not say what food items have in fact found their way into my rectum.

But, no...I don't think it is all that weird of an option. When I was a kid, I got picked on an awful lot. I used to binge eat as a coping mechanism back then.

I'm just wondering why "food" was included on the list--I totally understand alcohol. Food is a necessity, and while I agree it can be the enemy, I thought, "one of these things is not like the others." I doubt anyone here is going to booty-bump an apple slice, unless it's laced with one of the other listed substances. It just seemed a weird option given late discussions.

the booty bump thing gave me a smile guy.

Basically, think of the above list as "Pi" just whittled down. Try not to let every answer you would choose be thought of as something you necessarily used as a crutch or support. You just experienced it. In fact substitute the word "experience" for use, abuse and addiction. We don't all define the above items necessarily as good/bad. In other words, don't place a value on it.

Far be it for the Queen to point her finger at anyone or their drug of choice. I have experimented with some such as cocaine, crack, acid, weed but has never been a pill popper. You can give me a half of Valium and I would be out for the count. Snorting coke was cool to a point but I was only in it for the drain. Crack is really what had did me in but I went into rehab for it, went to a few meetings and I chose to stay away from those who still smoked it. Hasn't had a problem with it since. I have yet to see a crack head who doesn't try to sell something to get high, not to say it isn't possible but just saying. I guess most would say I am addicted to weed and to be honest I would say yes I am, been smoking since I was 15. But now I need it to keep myself eating. And it does its job, so no complaints here.

I will say kudos on starting this thread and I like your point of view. Now if you really want to talk about something, how about those idiotic anti drug commercials...I especially like the one with the leeches....Not!!! And of course, weed is the downfall of man....Oh please....And I wonder why they never make any about the hazzards of meth use or heroine....Just saying..If you gonna make the damn commercials at least be fair and talk about all of them.

Have tried weed, ecstasy, acid, speed and cocaine. Cocaine being my drug of choice(snorting) when I was partying years ago and of course alcohol. If drugs didn't have the ability to alter one's appearance, I probably would have developed some serious addictions, but thankfully(I guess), years ago that was a terrifying thought(Ironic, now that I'm on meds that could do just that).

I'm somewhat hesitant to jump in here, because I just don't have experience with anything otherthan marijuana (20 years ago) and alcohol (which I freely admit to imbibing a few times a month).Oh, of course I eat (almost) every day too. Not having experience with anything stronger, I'm not sure I have too much else to add here. But, I think the point of this thread was to have a discussion, not just to have a poll.

I will say that I am surprised at how many folks freely admit to using/abusing/being addicted to some of these drugs. Call me naive -- it wouldn't be the first time I've been called that. I'm also surprisedat the number of folks here whose lives apparently were not "ruined" by drug use (if I interpret theresponses correctly). Though I think I would have expected more responses like that. Maybe I'vejust got sucked in to all the heavy propaganda from the "just say no" crowd.

Still, none of this is making me want to rush out and try some of these drugs to see what if anypossible beneficial effects they might have. My basic approach would be to say that, as long as what you are doing does not hurt you or anyone else, then go for it. But even that seems too "pollyana-ish" to me. I mean, I choose not to eat pork, so aren't I harming hog farmers? Every choice we make has consequences of some kind to one extent or another.

This thread is making me think. Still, I have to admit to a bit of shock as I read it -- think of thescene from the movie "Hairspray" when Pia Zidora's character offers Ricki Lake "loco weed", andRicki Lake responds in horror: "Drugs?". Maybe I need to go iron my hair...

At this point, I'm not even sure where I was going with my post, except to share what is goingon in my mind as I follow this thread. And perhaps learn something I did not know before.It is not my intent to come off as judgemental or high-and-mighty. I think I'm just surprised that I am 42 years old, and still clueless as to how (relatively) prevalent drug use is.

Somehow I feel I might regret making this post. But I might learn something from yourresponses, too. So that would be worth any "face-first fall" I might make with this.

Regards,

Henry

Logged

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

I know you won't understand my words - how sad I feel reading these posts - the nonchalance, the breezy way you talk about things that are so harmful and destructive - yes, I get it, you don't want to be "judged"; but I sense you don't want to take any responsibility for harming others, either.

I only checked off one box. I have had difficulty with sex, having way too much, because I thought I had to, or thought it was the way gay men would like me, love me, be my friend, etc. I'm glad gay marriage is increasingly becoming an option for more gay men, only wish it happened when I was younger and more apt to find a partner.

I find the stabs at humor disheartening. For me, it's discernment, not judgment, but I know people feel attacked/judged when people bring up collective responsibility - I think particularly for gay men this is a foreign idea. I hope younger gay men, in succeeding generations, will have enough self esteem to stay away from these artificial highs - these things that lack wisdom.

I'm somewhat hesitant to jump in here, because I just don't have experience with anything otherthan marijuana (20 years ago) and alcohol (which I freely admit to imbibing a few times a month).Oh, of course I eat (almost) every day too. Not having experience with anything stronger, I'm not sure I have too much else to add here. But, I think the point of this thread was to have a discussion, not just to have a poll.

I will say that I am surprised at how many folks freely admit to using/abusing/being addicted to some of these drugs. Call me naive -- it wouldn't be the first time I've been called that. I'm also surprisedat the number of folks here whose lives apparently were not "ruined" by drug use (if I interpret theresponses correctly). Though I think I would have expected more responses like that. Maybe I'vejust got sucked in to all the heavy propaganda from the "just say no" crowd.

Still, none of this is making me want to rush out and try some of these drugs to see what if anypossible beneficial effects they might have. My basic approach would be to say that, as long as what you are doing does not hurt you or anyone else, then go for it. But even that seems too "pollyana-ish" to me. I mean, I choose not to eat pork, so aren't I harming hog farmers? Every choice we make has consequences of some kind to one extent or another.

This thread is making me think. Still, I have to admit to a bit of shock as I read it -- think of thescene from the movie "Hairspray" when Pia Zidora's character offers Ricki Lake "loco weed", andRicki Lake responds in horror: "Drugs?". Maybe I need to go iron my hair...

At this point, I'm not even sure where I was going with my post, except to share what is goingon in my mind as I follow this thread. And perhaps learn something I did not know before.It is not my intent to come off as judgemental or high-and-mighty. I think I'm just surprised that I am 42 years old, and still clueless as to how (relatively) prevalent drug use is.

Somehow I feel I might regret making this post. But I might learn something from yourresponses, too. So that would be worth any "face-first fall" I might make with this.

Regards,

Henry

Henry-

First: there was no way to seperate having sampled the substances from being addicted to them. I did the majority of my exploration with drugs when I was a kid, ie: before the age of 23. Certainly drugs did not ruin my life.

But second: Don't feel bad about having resisted peer pressure and/or finding life passable enough to not seek an escape from time to time. I see no shame in that, either.

Brent(Who's glad Henry posted his say)

Logged

Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Then if we are discussing these things as coping mechanisms, I would like to submit humor alongside food and drink. I am not trying to be dismissive of anything, but I am not willing to resign myself to only discussing these topics with my head buried in my hands, weeping..."These! These have I done unto myself!"

And an edit for this: I agree with Bucko the Depraved. There is no shame at all in never having a go with any substances. I fully support (nay- applaud) anyone who has managed to walk the narrow way like that. And I personally find Henry's brand of Pollyanna to be quite attractive.

I know you won't understand my words - how sad I feel reading these posts - the nonchalance, the breezy way you talk about things that are so harmful and destructive - yes, I get it, you don't want to be "judged"; but I sense you don't want to take any responsibility for harming others, either.

I only checked off one box. I have had difficulty with sex, having way too much, because I thought I had to, or thought it was the way gay men would like me, love me, be my friend, etc. I'm glad gay marriage is increasingly becoming an option for more gay men, only wish it happened when I was younger and more apt to find a partner.

I find the stabs at humor disheartening. For me, it's discernment, not judgment, but I know people feel attacked/judged when people bring up collective responsibility - I think particularly for gay men this is a foreign idea. I hope younger gay men, in succeeding generations, will have enough self esteem to stay away from these artificial highs - these things that lack wisdom.

Metta,Rich

Personally, I laugh at the things I've done not because of any inherent humor in them... quite the contrary... I laugh at my past addictions because if I didn't, I would have to cry about them.

People are generally a bit more receptive to learning when they're amused... and generally, the message that my life with drugs should send is, "Do it if you want, but you're gonna end up with a bunch of shit to deal with like this."

I think there is a huge difference between sugar coating something, and between making it amusing. One might say that the way a lot of us laugh about having HIV is encouraging others to get it. It's not.

It's a coping mechanism.

All the years of sob-story after school specials and teary-eyed former addicts haven't deterred millions of people... so maybe someone will think twice before doing what I did after I say, "I've sucked dick for coke" and make it funny... instead of a contrite cliche.

How surprising it would be to most that I have been smoking crack for over 15 years.I have never had any problems because of it either financially, emotionally or health related. Despite all indications in the media to the contrary, it is possible to do some of these drugs without becoming anymore "addicted" than a "casual" drinker would consider themselves to be.I smoke maybe two or three times a year and use no other illegal substances.What makes cocaine or marijuana so different from alcohol? Nothing more than an arbitrary line drawn by lawmakers.

What is supposed to be the difference between "used" and "abused"? Isn't that a world apart? For example, if I used something once or twice in my life, how are you differentiating from using once or twice a day? If I purchase over-the-counter drugs every time I have a cold, does that constitute abuse? I find it impossible to answer such a poll without knowing the results would be skewed. This is a completely useless exercise.

Logged

"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

How surprising it would be to most that I have been smoking crack for over 15 years.I have never had any problems because of it either financially, emotionally or health related.

IMHO You're fooling yourself... but I think you will find that out for yourself.I think that posts like this are irresponsible be cause they allow other people to fool themselves into thinking that they will not become addicted. Sorry... that's just my opinion..

No need to apologize. I have met few others who didn't find themselves in some serious trouble over crack cocaine.That being said, I don't think ANY of these substances are inherently evil and I believe that demonization only contributes to the allure for many people.