Joined

Last visited

Community Reputation

4 Followers

About BobRyan

There is a hell - John calls it the "Lake of fire" in Rev 20 and it will happen at the end of the 1000 year millennium.
Saints go to heaven.. the wicked will go to hell... in hell there will be both Protestants and Catholics and unbelieving atheists -- and as you point out they do not have the best of characters in this life and probably won't get along all that well at the 2nd resurrection of Revelation 20. But good news for them - Satan will be cruel and demanding task master .. won't put up with nonsense - will muster all the desperate groups into one unanimous army to go against God -- and then be destroyed in the lake of fire including Satan himself destroyed in it. This is the glorious "future" that unbelievers are choosing because "every question in the universe is not currently answered for them"

Since you are calling yourself an unbeliever I assume your "recovering Catholic" means you used to be Catholic and are now atheist?
Jesus loves the unbeliever and the believer - he suffered, was tortured, died for both. How many people have you died for that you did not love? He has set that bar - pretty high.
At the same time - Jesus is also in the business of cutting out the cancer and curing Aids Sin is cancer and Aids all bundled into one You have it and I have it.
We can choose to be Christian and let Jesus cure the aids and cut out the cancer in our lives.
OR we can reject Jesus -- live in rebellion against Him... join Satan.. and self-identify with our cancer and aids such that to get rid of that -- He will have to get rid of us.
And He will honor that choice as well.

Rev 1 "every eye will see Him"
7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
1 Thess 4 'The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God,
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
All tribes of the earth will mourn. All will see the Son of Man on the clouds of the sky Matt 24
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

There are over 1150 New Testament Commands..
Just what exactly is "God's Limit"??
Impossible to "Be your own Savior" that is true.
But Romans 8:4-9 says it is only the lost who "do not submit to the LAW of God --neither indeed CAN they"
Because for the saved under the NEW Covenant - the LAW of God "is written on the heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33
The gospel is not a story about getting Christians to take God's name in vain - and then feel good about it.
And I think we all know that much.

Well it is better to actually read the Bible in context than to wrench a tiny snip as in the case above.
Numbers 28
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Command the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be careful to present My offering, My food for My offerings by fire, of a soothing aroma to Me, at their appointed time.’ 3 You shall say to them, ‘This is the offering by fire which you shall offer to the Lord: two male lambs one year old without defect as a continual burnt offering every day.
... so then "don't be a Christian every day unless you want to offer animal sacrifices every day?" -- we know such snip-and-wrench is not correct.
1. Animal sacrifices ended at the cross - Hebrews 10:4-11
2. Earthly priesthood ended at the cross -- Hebrews 7 - 8:5
3. Sabbath begins in Eden BEFORE sin and BEFORE animal sacrifices - Genesis 2:1-3 Exodus 20:11 Mark 2:27-28
4. Sabbath to be kept by all mankind in the New Earth -- for all eternity after the cross.. no animal sacrifices - Isaiah 66:23
5. Sabbath was for gentiles EVEN in the OT - Isaiah 56:5-8
6. Saints KEEP the Commandments of God Rev 14:12
7. This IS the "Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
Details matter.

Interesting speculation not sure it will hold up to scripture.
Jer 31:31-33 - the "NEW Covenant" -- includes the "LAW of God written on heart and mind"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Eph 6:2 Honor your father and mother which is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN
BTW -- attack whole denominations.. even this-or-that Sabbath-keeping denomination .. is not the same thing as reconciling an anti-Commandment-of-God theology with the Bible.

So then why bother with the Bible when Catholic sources are so happy to 'make stuff up'?? That is the "solution"???
Acts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.
Gal 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
====================================================
Among Protestants there is such a thing as "sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and practice

The problem with that is that both Jews AND gentiles were there and were being evangelized and instead of telling the gentiles "come back tomorrow on the Lord's Day our Christian day of worship" it is continually "next Sabbath" it is continually "Sabbath after Sabbath" and "every Sabbath" in those texts you gave. Rather than getting the believing Gentiles to at least attend a single Sunday service.
That is a historic detail in the text that the pro-sunday position does not survive.
in your own quote below it is GENTILES asking for more Gospel preaching "next Sabbath" not Jews.
Act 13:42
(42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Even in Acts 20 there is no "first day of the week is the Lord's Day" or "we meet every week day 1" rather it is a Saturday evening service and on week-day-1 they plan all-day-travel.

That link says -
" The four which have fallen by the wayside are the requirement not to worship idols, use the Lord's name in vain, to worship no other God, and to keep the Sabbath day holy. "
Such an "instructive contrast" between what some "Christians FEEL" vs what the Bible actual SAYS. More and more these days "feelings are the new Bible"... does not work out so well according to Christ in Matthew 7

This thread is titled "Saturday or Sunday" -- it is about the weekly Sabbath... not yearly feast days.
There is only one Bible Sabbath in terms of a weekly day of rest. We see it in Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 reminds us that it is the same Sabbath that we see in Exodus 20. And in Acts 13, Acts 17:3-5, Acts 18:4-5... it is still the same term for Sabbath.. No change.
What is more Isaiah 66:23 says it is that same Exodus 20 Sabbath that will be kept by "all mankind" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.
This is irrefutable.

A great many Christians believe you should not take God's name in vain once you decide to be a Christian.
Many also believe you should cease with child pornography, prostitution.. working as a hit man.. torturing the saints during the Spanish inquisition... once you are converted.
Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7
James said that "dead faith" is the faith that produces nothing.
We probably both agree on this point.
But the born-again saint in Romans 8:4-9 is contrasted with the lost person this way.. "The mind set on the flesh does NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they"
Thus the saved and the lost are contrasted in that chapter.
Perhaps you agree with this as well.
The Bible teaches that we are saved by placing our trust in Christ, period. Anyone who receives Christ's death, burial and resurrection as full-payment for their sins is saved. Even childlike faith is enough to save a person.
But that does not mean you can live like that devil and "stay saved".
"I forgave you ALL That DEBT!!" - Matt 18
I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

True. The act of obedience to even an animal-sacrifice LAW in the OT on the part of Able was not a sign of "trying to earn heaven by works" rather even Hebrews 11 points out that Noah had a religion of "righteousness by faith" and God points out that the "Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.
God was not giving commands in the OT to get people to sin or to reject the Gospel in any way. Hopefully we can agree on this basic point.
True. True today and true in the OT.
Thus in Matthew 17 we have both Moses and Elijah standing WITH Christ in glory - BEFORE the cross.
Thus in Hebrews 11 it is the OT giants of faith that are held up before the NT Christians as "models".
Thus we find in 1 Cor 10:2-5 "they all drank from the same Spiritual Rock and that ROCK was Christ" speaking of the OT saints.
Nothing in the Bible says "once the Messiah comes don't worry about trying not to take God's name in vain" ..
Also in Isaiah 66:23 we are told that for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth "from SABBATH to SABBATH shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23