This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.

Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.

At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.

But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.

For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.

In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.

But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!

Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.

And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.

And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.

As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.

Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.

In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.

Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.

Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.

In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.

Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.

In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.

I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.

That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.

Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.

This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.

Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.

But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)

Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.

And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.

And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.

He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.

But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.

In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.

562 Comments on "Is He A Narcissist? Is He Salvageable?"

naw, no slapping around oxy ( there never was) (although i do like the ‘boat reference. 😉 – i was in the house at the time. she never mentioned it to him…all of it took place inside her own heart and mind.

my dad IS a punisher. and i am fairly certain that’s why he took my inheritance. he’s punishing me for refusing to be supply to him and to his father – who i took a very active and ultimately public stand against.

supply people are fear based. not love based. so they capitulate to abusers and do not stand up for those they love. the biggest bark wins.

but we, we get to stop those cycles. they stop with us. unfortunately, many of us don’t get to pass that on as we don’t have kids – and i am sure that i didn’t because of the legacy i was still mired in. that’s a big hurt for me; it haunts me more and more. it’s in my drawer of ‘things to heal, when i am able’.

You know I wanted grandkids even more than I had wanted kids (and I DID want children!!!) NOW, I am sooooo VERY glad I did not have those grandkids to be used as pawns in the psychopathic game of life! I feel so much sadness for people with children that are used as pawns either kids or grandkids, but we even have LESS control over how our grandkids are used as we don’t even have “parental rights.”

Liane Leedom said once that there should be NO such thing as “parental rights’ just CHILDREN’s rights! I agree with her 110%.

Well, I got my meat all packed up and ready to go to the big freezer. I got myself a vacuum sealer for my birthday and it is wonderful! Sucks all the air out of the package and seals it nicely! I wish I’d done that years ago! What I get for being too CHEAP to buy myself something nice! LOL

Used up all the special bags I had for it, so awaiting the post man to bring me more I ordered off the internet. Next big processing will be over 3-day new year’s holiday, weather permitting (not too hot) Rain won’t be a problem as we can work indoors, but don’t want it to be too warm or too cold either!

Well, I hope and pray your mom doesn’t realize at this point just how dysfunctional her life has been, there comes a point that denial is self preservation for the supply victims. They get like old drunks, they can’t let go of the bottle that got them where they are, only the oblivion of dementia or death can release them from the pain.

My egg donor is there–she isn’t going to change, she couldn’t if she wanted to, she doesn’t have to tools or equipment to change, so she is stuck where she is. She isn’t demented per se, but she isn’t able to function in a normal way, can’t do it. All I can do is to minimize the damage she does to me by supplying money to P-son. I don’t wish her an early demise, but won’t be a big grief for me when she does pass, just means that I have to start on the next phase of the “keep money away from P-son” plan. Same with P son, don’t wish Bubba would shove a shiv in his gut, but I won’t grieve if it happened. I’ve done my grieving while they were alive physically, so no more need to do it when they pass away.

One step,
I wish I could tell you what to do about your PTSD, but I have it to and it’s crippling me. Your physical symptoms could possibly improve if you could get rid of the PTSD.
I’m not sure but I wonder if the PTSD is caused from still having things in our WTF? bucket. Maybe it’s just fear and powerlessness. my parents are still in the WTF? bucket. Maybe my body is acting out because I don’t have the words to explain what’s wrong. Just like the P’s need us to feel as bad as they do, I need ME to feel some emotion that I’m repressing so it comes out in my body.
I eat constantly. gained 20 lbs, so I know what you mean about the pregnant look. yuck. maybe I’m trying to calm the butterflies in my stomach, the warning feeling of danger and unease.
Well now my words are just going around in circles and I don’t know what I mean to say.
Does your job end in 3 months because it’s temp work?
What kind of work do you look for?
Do you think that maybe it’s too stressful to know that you will be unemployed soon? Why do you say that you aren’t allowed to look for work right now?
Maybe if you knew that you had a cushion in the future, you would feel better.

hi sky – yes, my job is a contract. i am organizing a march conference at this point. i can’t just up and leave them in the interim, so i can’t take another job until i am done. i won’t have any time to devote to the job hunt in feb or march – i will be working all the time to get the conference off the ground.

sky – i have gained 60 pounds. i know a lot about why i eat. i gained about 40 pounds when i quit smoking in my 20’s. i became a compulsive overeater at that time. i ate the way i had smoked – all the time and to dampen my feelings. i was in overeaters anonymous for a long time and learned a lot and lost all the weight. when we stop eating we figure out why we eat, not so much the other way around. i had to leave program because of the predators there.

i tried to go back when i moved here,but the groups here were very weak and there was little support. I will never go back. so i will have to find some other support – because i know i can’t do it alone. just reading a bit about what oxy has done for herself in the last while is inspiring – i need that to tackle this.

i would feel better if i had a $cushion and a next job. i would feel better if my neighbor’s never smoked again in the building and i could count on feeling safe. i would feel better if i felt safe to walk into any given situation/ building without the fear of reacting to mold or some other damn thing.

what i can do is just let people know i am looking for work in april. i expect i will spend several months unemployed. it’s like that here. i have started stockpiling food, and buying as much medication as i can. and making sure i have lotion and things i did without this year.

Neurofeedback is helping my PTSD. a lot. i spend way less time in flashbacks, and waaaaay less time thinking about the spath. And yes, i think my PTSD/physical problems/environmental sensitivities are symbiotic. one improves and they all do, one gets worse and they all do. i work at it, and i do see some bit of gain in the last couple of months. i have parts of days when my energy is pretty good – even though i am in pain. i have parts of some days, and more lately, when i feel some sense of lightness in my psyche.

we just have to keep trying. one day at a time. it is our choice, a choice for life. i know how deeply valuable you are, and that you are worth every bit of effort you make to become alive and feel beautiful.