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Gabriela Robin (lyricist) [NB: this English 'translation' is straight out of the booklet]:

Quote:

Truth of abyss, where a finger tracing the outline of emptiness reaches. "Wanting to die" equally means "Wanting to live"

Iwasato Yuho (lyricist):
A song I wrote whilst trying determinedly to feel with all my five senses. (The rest of this comment is about how it was really raw {emotionally - at least, that's what her comment sounds like to me: lit: 'scratchy' and 'bare'} and 'painful' to sing - but May'n pulled it off brilliantly).

(Kanno's comment is similarly about the difficulty of the song - she wonders if May'n is an amphibian, i.e. doesn't just breathe through her mouth and nose)

May'n:

Quote:

Sheryl, who struggles and suffers in the midst of the conflict. Even though she wants to sing, no one listens to her. I've cried through lots of Sheryl's songs, but I think this was the one where I cried and yelled the most. Yelling out (my) feelings whilst crying. It really hit home that Sheryl, who needs someone* to this extent, is just like any other normal girl.

(*this "someone" isn't referring to any particular person in the series, IMHO, May'n's just talking about how people need others around them - people whom they are connected to)

Bah, last time I checked, the love triangle was as done as a well-done steak. But I guess we still have our "own fanonical views on canon"/air quotation marks.

It also doesn't help that one certain individual is still trying to convert our views to an overstated, overcooked, over-burnt, and certainly over-emphasized point of view that we by now have rejected multiple times.

It also doesn't help that one certain individual is still trying to convert our views to an overstated, overcooked, over-burnt, and certainly over-emphasized point of view that we by now have rejected multiple times.

On a different note: I just wrote a reply to one of my AruRan friends which some of it actually applies to my thoughts on the movies in general and discusses in more depth about their character changes in the movies and my person demons towards the movies being produced verses the series.

(It mostly centers on the 1st movie with SOME mentions of the 2nd movie.)

Her thoughts:

Spoiler for Her thoughts:

Yeah I know your right but what I meant is that it wasn't such a drastic change. Yeah movie 1 could be compared with DYRL but not movie 2. Plus what I focused on mostly was how the characters acted like in the series and in the movies. In DYRL and SDF Hikaru and Misa + their relationship (yeah it went faster but it started the same way), Minmay changed but not much. She was made cuter and less selfish + she liked him from the beginning, but it wasn't such a big change or was she mimicking anybody (or I didn't notice it).
Sheryl mimicked Ranka and became more cute + she got scenes like ranka + got injected into their scenes + her story overshadowed everything. The Vajra, Alto's acting and family, Ranka and he missing memory were all just nice filler info but that's about it. She's the heroine and the star and so got the man (they always do -_-). Ranka changed some but I didn't really notice it to be honest I thought she had stayed the same until people had pointed out that she'd changed. And Alto was more open, but his character flung itself back and forth.
One minute he's all "I was no longer able to tell if I'm a boy or a girl" next minute he puts down his hair and tries on Sheryl's earring (because all guys usually do that right *sarcasm*) and POSES in front of the mirror...HOW THE HELL DID THAT MAKE SENSE!! Plus his attitude towards Sheryl made a complete 360. In the series even after the date scene and what happened after when she first gave him her earring, he was still sort of ambivalent with her (Sheryl episode 8: this is just like the first time we met *_*/Alto:Can we go back now? -_-/Sheryl:Nope *ignores his face* ^_^/Alto: -_-') This time around she trips him, takes him to the forest, kisses him, and he is all
Hikaru did not do this with Misa. He loved Minmay and it showed, just like in the show, but it took half of the movie till he stops acting ambivalent towards Misa. They could have done the same with Alto and Sheryl but instead they changed him instantly and made it seem unrealistic. Yes I know they were going to do a second movie but they should have had it towards halfway. After he knocks her down would have been perfect! Because he would have seen then how she isn't as strong as she looks and acts, but whatever it's hard to beat the fan favorite.
Aw seriously? Oh well as long as I get to read aruran fanfics i'm cool with it (yeah i've read your fanfic just don't have time to comment XD)As for that idea...it sounds right since that's what I expect to happen. Idk Sheryl and Alto's personalities have never meshed well with me so I can't see them long-term. Maybe it's because I don't like tsundere characters very much. I've just never met a couple that is constantly bickering (and they would constantly bicker) and stays together for long periods of time. Maybe in anime but in rl that doesn't work.

My reply:

Spoiler for My thoughts on BOTH movies vs. TV series:

Well, actually, in DYRL, there were a lot of similar parts that were re-edited. One of these scenes was Minmei’s rescue from Ep.1, which this time played without Misa. In the Frontier movie, they did this the opposite way. Since Sheryl didn’t come to know Ranka until Ep.3 and didn’t truly come to befriend her until after Ep.8, they had to insert scenes into the movie so she could actually get to know Ranka sooner. So AruRan moments had to share with Sheryl for this since the movies run faster than the series. THAT I understood. It was when Sheryl got to spend more time alone with Alto and flirt with him that just seemed to push this “getting to know each other” over the top. They also gave Sheryl a past she didn’t have in the series: that she originated from Galia 4 and lived with Ranka’s family aboard 117, even knew Aimo. We who watched the series know that was NOT her past and she DIDN’T know Aimo. This pissed me off. That was one thing that belonged entirely to Ranka – memories of 117 and Galia 4, even Aimo – now was shared evidently with Sheryl. That being said, I liked one thing about Sheryl in this movie, she stated outright that she was only “playing” with Alto and gave Ranka a chance to own his heart. Sheryl understood that Ranka was in love with Alto and decided to step aside. That made me like her just a little in the 1st movie. It was ALTO who made me upset by choosing to trust someone he barely knew instead of choosing to protect Ranka even if Sheryl wasn’t a spy. His character just fell apart there. In the series, he chose to distrust all who neared Ranka and were suspicious, like Brera.

Alto having the gender problems in the movie turned me off him altogether for a while. It would have made better sense had he just worn the earring and saw her in the mirror. Instead, he posed as well. Earlier, he told Ranka that he “didn’t know if he was a man or a woman” anymore and then he goes and questions that. This gives me more ground to say that Alto and Sheryl don’t mix, because he becomes the woman in the relationship.

I noticed how alike Sheryl became to the TV series version of Ranka's cuteness and shy attitude. Her phone scene and especially her time with Alto in the field was moments that mimicked Ranka from the series. This made me dislike her more to the point of flaming. Because I knew instantly: THIS IS NOT SHERYL’S CHARACTER!!! Her story also ruled the whole movie to the point where it WAS her story and both Alto and Ranka were secondary main characters. Kawamori was lying when he said her story always finds a way into the plot… no, it OVERSHADOWED the whole story. It dominates the storyline to where you think she alone is the main character and the hell with the others. All of Ranka’s accomplishments in the series like remembering her past and her time on Galia 4 were written out. Alto dealing with his past and Yasaburou was written out. Michael’s sister’s death and his feelings for Klan were also written out. It was to the point where Sheryl was the ONLY character that was important out of the movie and that just disgusted me altogether.

Also, Sheryl is not the MAIN character, Alto is. He is supposed to be the heroine with both girls backing him up. Ranka, however, is the one tied mostly to the plot, so she instantly becomes the main character and our supposed heroine due to the fact she can stop the enemy. Sheryl, however, has no tie to the plot except to Grace, the person on the verge of wrecking everything. But otherwise, without her new memories of Galia 4, she holds no tie to the plot and therefore is a bystander to the plot.

Alto isn’t missing his memory but rather doesn’t WANT to remember his acting days. So when it comes to Sheryl, this gives me the impression that he didn’t want to remember HER either. Granted, I wouldn’t want to remember being given flowers and hearing “I want to be like you” either. I want to be myself not have someone copying me or following in my footsteps when I hate my job.

As for Alto being more open, I didn’t really see THAT. With Ranka, it seemed like they’d known each other since Alto left his family household as a rebellion against his father’s wishes. So his open character towards her read off as “we’ve been dating for a while so it’s time you know more about me.” Honestly, Michael made it pretty obvious to Alto that Ranka is his “girlfriend” and seeing him with Sheryl hurt her feelings. Alto, in the clip, seemed to comprehend. But in the second movie, when he takes her on an official “date,” he becomes the same Alto from the series: dense and indecisive. THAT did not make a flick of sense for his so-called “character change.” Of course, the hug in the second movie also did not make sense to his character because he returned to being the new “open Alto” after being the “dense Alto” from the TV series. Two characters blended together over the course of the second movie and did not work.

Alto and Sheryl’s attitude was complete rearranged. Since both are tsundere, they should be bickering constantly. But instead of doing that, they act like they’ve been married for years. This doesn’t didn’t read off as their characters OR Macross in general. Maybe if they’d been friends like Alto and Ranka throughout the story, it would’ve made better sense, but this just seemed to awkward for someone like me who’s watching them meet for the FIRST time (as they only met for less than five minutes when they were younger). The flipside of said “kiss” was that Alto turns to see Ranka and freaks out like “shit, I was caught cheating!” THAT made my day. Because, in the series, he lied to her outright even though she KNEW the truth.

Sheryl being the fan favorite definitely tore me off Frontier altogether for quite a while to where I was just trying to find reason to even keep going on Watashi no Kare wa Pilot. People keep making excuses for why Sheryl won and that being a fan favorite didn’t help her; but it did. Back when the original Macross was made, of course Minmei didn’t win, because Kawamori went with his heart. When it came to Sheryl in this modern age, he chose to go with the more sexy idol instead of Ranka. Just look at the fact Basara won the love triangle in Macross 7: the most famous idol. No it didn’t directly end with Mylene and him getting together but her heart set on him; and that was the important end to that triangle. With Frontier, a similar end to the triangle: famous idol with famous actor; both professionals. This did not help my love for Frontier at all.

One thing I despised about the series altogether was that Ranka was said to have needed encouragement from BOTH Alto and Sheryl to actually stand up and sing at Formo and in the Miss Macross pageant. This was NOT true. In Formo, only Alto was needed with his paper airplane. In the Miss Macross pageant, Alto’s message was enough. Sheryl actually just came out at the wrong time then and decided to speak her mind – which isn’t always needed, people. This is why I think Watashi no Kare wa Pilot has become such a success, because it shows the story how it SHOULD have happened. After all, in SDF, Hikaru was the only one encouraging Minmei seriously, Misa was not there. It didn’t seem right that Ranka was being encouraged by Sheryl when Alto was the only one she needed.

Other characters deserved to be the fan favorite more than Sheryl. One thing I hated about it was that Ranka and Sheryl now share a common past. Ranka originally had the worst past of the two: she couldn’t REMEMBER it. Sheryl only couldn’t remember her mother because she was too young. When Ranka remembered her past, she took the blame for something that wasn’t her fault. Sheryl had no tie to that plot and shouldn’t have been given such.

It just seems to me that if Sheryl had held the concert on Frontier and then left without flirting or hanging out with Alto and Ranka, Alto would’ve helped Ranka become an idol on his own with his encouragement. That’s another reason why Watashi no Kare wa Pilot is so liked by readers. People don’t seem to see that Alto DOES encourage Ranka by giving her support, someone to lean on who KNOWS the business. This reads off to them as “he’s running from his past by placing the burden on Ranka, by channeling his own problems into Ranka.” He can’t just encourage her, there has to be a REASON, a SELFISH reason behind it. Well, in that case, Sheryl is ALSO selfish for encouraging Ranka to become an idol, to OUT BEST her so she has a REASON to stop singing. That became very clear from both series and manga view of Sheryl’s thoughts towards Ranka wanting to sing.

Sorry if I wrote a book but I put paragraphs. If any of it seems like flaming, it's just because of the way I centered on the bold printed words. No flaming was intended.

Gabriela Robin (lyricist) [NB: this English 'translation' is straight out of the booklet]:

Iwasato Yuho (lyricist):
A song I wrote whilst trying determinedly to feel with all my five senses. (The rest of this comment is about how it was really raw {emotionally - at least, that's what her comment sounds like to me: lit: 'scratchy' and 'bare'} and 'painful' to sing - but May'n pulled it off brilliantly).

(Kanno's comment is similarly about the difficulty of the song - she wonders if May'n is an amphibian, i.e. doesn't just breathe through her mouth and nose)

May'n: (*this "someone" isn't referring to any particular person in the series, IMHO, May'n's just talking about how people need others around them - people whom they are connected to)

I always thought May'n was an extremely talented singer, it's why she's actually tied for the top spot of my favorite/best singers of all time because she can sing with such an emotional range and it really feels like she feels the song every time. Sure I don't know Japanese and I didn't understand a word she said, but I could feel the feelings the song exuded through her voice. All singers do that to some degree, but I always felt like it was deeper with May'n. I just felt it more, I didn't have to reason out anything.

Spoiler for Some of what LMK was talking about and I do talk about the movies slightly:

On the characters as presented in the movies, I have always felt the movies were somehow an odd sort of reset because the main trio felt closer to how they were at the end of the series rather than the beginning, like everything reset but their character development. At the beginning of the series Alto was temperamental, Sheryl could be a jerk, and Ranka felt younger than she did in the movies. Ranka herself to me felt less shy, less like she needed a confidence boost. The big moment to me that says this is her singing at Formo. In the series, she sees the paper airplane and she knows it was from Alto and filled her with confidence. In the movies, she sees the plane again, but at the same time it's not actually there, she instead remembered what Alto told her and drew her own confidence from that more on her own. It didn't need that happenstance of a paper airplane going by to get her to sing this time around. Sheryl there was one very big difference I saw and that's that she was sadder in the movies. Sadness was only something we got very slim inklings of when she talked about Galaxy, but in the movies she was introduced this way in a rather startling contrast. Ranka and Sheryl both were singing Diamond Crevasse, but while Ranka did so with a smile, Sheryl looked sad. And at least I feel that this all leads to the three of them being reset history-wise, but not character wise. Sheryl, Alto, and Ranka were at the beginning of the movies largely as they were at the end of the series. Not exactly, but many elements that were developed later are already present.

One thing I have to agree with LMK about is that Sheryl does steal the movies, at least that's a bit of how I felt about the first one. Why exactly this is is hard to say, it feels somewhat subtle in how it does seem to focus on her more so, even though the other two are present and they feel like they're there and that it's meant to focus on all three, it just seems like there's a slight Sheryl bias. The telltale for me was always the very last shot of the first movie, with the three of them in the snowfall: a closeup of Sheryl panning out to see the other two behind her and then all the way out. I haven't seen the second movie yet, but I'm not expecting a different feeling when Alto's own actor suggested much the same of the second movie. I always found it vaguely odd. I mean don't get me wrong, I love Sheryl and I totally don't mind this bias, but I do see it. It's kinda like what happens when Sean Connery is cast in a supporting role.

I should really put more characters in there, but I couldn't come up with places to put them on such short notice. Scale ranges from Badass to Die In A Fire, but... really only Threesome makes me think Die In A Fire, the rest is okay by me. Well Sheryl/Ranka still makes me twitch slightly, but I could accept it if done tastefully. I'm still not entirely certain of all this, and I find it questionable that I put the YF-29 in second even though I haven't even seen the movie in which it appears. It just looks so badass and makes me weep for the sheer fact that it retains its full combat ability in an atmosphere, the lack of which always me sad when I thought about the VF-25. I also feel like I should put the Wings of Goodbye (the song) somewhere high on this list because I've listened to it a few hundred times and I still adore it to everloving pieces. To me it is just epic.

I was going to post a response to some stuff LMK was saying earlier, but after she opened a whole new can of worms with another post it seems kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to just state that Sheryl wanting to encourage Ranka to sing so that she could beat her and stop her from singing is complete and total BS and leave it at that for now.

Here's to hoping this doesn't turn into such a mess that the discussion on Northern Cross gets drowned out by it.

I was going to post a response to some stuff LMK was saying earlier, but after she opened a whole new can of worms with another post it seems kind of pointless. So I think I'm going to just state that Sheryl wanting to encourage Ranka to sing so that she could beat her and stop her from singing is complete and total BS and leave it at that for now.

I was actually quoting something she said in the Kiss in the Galaxy manga about wanting someone to surpass her. In all means, it would mean she has a desire for someone to beat her so she can realize her fulfilled dream. I wasn't meaning it in a bad way even if it came out that way.

I think I may have misread that as "Sheryl wants to build up Ranka then crush her" rather than "Sheryl wants Ranka to surpass her so that she has a reason to stop singing herself" but regardless I still think the idea that was Sheryl's goal in the anime is just wrong.

I think I may have misread that as "Sheryl wants to build up Ranka then crush her" rather than "Sheryl wants Ranka to surpass her so that she has a reason to stop singing herself" but regardless I still think the idea that was Sheryl's goal in the anime is just wrong.

It was how I interpreted it because later once Ranka was a famous singer, Sheryl expressed that she wanted to quit singing, perhaps as not to contend with Ranka. Ep.16 and Ep.19 began to show that Sheryl was jealous of Ranka's singing ability so much so that she became envious in Ep.14 when Grace showed her a poster of Ranka. It isn't unnatural since Sheryl thought herself the best Songstress in the galaxy and then this so-called "nobody" comes out of the woodwork with her help and suddenly nobody knows who she is anymore. Don't take it so harsh but in the manga, it seemed like Sheryl wanted that, but in the anime, it seemed like it was the opposite. But in the end, in the anime, it seemed like Ranka really was her way out of singing, as she'd accomplished everything she wanted, which she expressed to Alto in Ep.18, and now that Ranka was a big idol that had surpassed her, that was her dream come true.

It is not entirely the fact that she wanted someone to "beat her" but rather "take over for her."

Stop being so judgmental over something that transferred in an argument between us months ago. You know, the burn has faded and all I'm doing now is discussing things that happened during the series and giving my opinion.

No no Miss. I-See-True-Pairing, not us. There is no us. Its You against everyone else. There is nothing exclusive between you and I. Unless Cheesy or Natsuki somehow acquired you as a recent attraction to my harem and didn't tell me about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

That was the only part that made me like Nakajima Megumi's version of What 'bout my Star, because her English fit better. But that's just my opinion.

As far as I am concerned, they are both bad at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

On another note: May'n's English, sadly, is not very good.

Neither is your Japanese, but somehow that didn't stop you from telling us what Japan is supposed to be like while fabricating statements about Japanese culture. What, you didn't ever think we'd get offended, too? Shit.

No, no, not that time she sings Diamond Crevasse, the one right smack at the beginning of the first movie when Sheryl is just arriving and she's singing it in Griffith Park or whatever it is. I'll have to take a screenshot thingy later though. For the rest, yeah, I think we both kinda arrive at the same conclusion with regards to the movies and characters.

For that bit on Sheryl and Ranka and Sheryl hoping Ranka might surpass her, I don't think it was for any of those reasons actually. Neither did she want to quit nor did she want to build someone up just so she could crush them. I always felt what Sheryl wanted was someone who could compete with her at her level, someone who would inspire her to do better, because right then she was at the top with nothing else even to threaten her position as Most Popular Artist. Someone who would raise the bar so to speak and gauge her own improvement against, and that's ultimately what she got in the series, and through all the other adversity she faced she finally ended up singing again and becoming better for it, as Klan and Alto note in Northern Cross.

Yes, Megumi's English was better than May'n's on so many levels, but I explained why above, because her voice allows her to sing it better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancel

No, no, not that time she sings Diamond Crevasse, the one right smack at the beginning of the first movie when Sheryl is just arriving and she's singing it in Griffith Park or whatever it is. I'll have to take a screenshot thingy later though. For the rest, yeah, I think we both kinda arrive at the same conclusion with regards to the movies and characters.

To be quite fair, neither had met and that was more of an introduction than them actually singing. Plus, Sheryl isn't singing with her. When both Ranka and Sheryl sing together near the end, they are both wearing sad faces.

But the one you're talking about was an introduction of the three characters. At that time, both Ranka and Sheryl were smiling upon their introduction to the storyline right after Alto was introduced.

I do have to admit the explanation about the Northern Star standing in for Ranka does seem to fit awfully well. (Though if someone else offers a good alternate explanation for the lines I might change my mind.) I kind of dislike the implications of the word “snatched” in that context. I probably would have been more comfortable with “pulled.” The bit about “away into the sooty darkness” also seems a bit strange in that context.

I always interpreted the Northern Star bit as a nod to Alto's love of the sky. In a bygone era, someone with a lust for adventure might, rather than flying in the sky, be pulled out into the sea, seeking adventure as a sailor. Polaris would be the guiding star for such sailors, "leading" or even "pulling"/"snatching" them from their beloved. Especially folk songs from the British Isles use this motif, like The Dark-Eyed Lady. But there are plenty of examples all over anime where Space is an Ocean, as well, so the idea of a woman pining for a lost lover seeking his adventure in the stars would be a low-hanging fruit for a woman writing songs in a place like Galaxy, filled with flyboys who presumably left lovers behind when they took to the skies.

Quote:

If the lyrics were written to refer to Ranka, then there’s no way it could have been written early on. The best fit would probably be that she wrote it after the bomb shelter scene but before the scene with Alto that preceded her actually singing the song.

I’m not sure if the lyrics should logically reflect Ranka’s current situation given Sheryl’s limited knowledge of it. It makes more sense for them to reflect earlier events. But who is to say the writers didn’t take some liberty?

If the lyrics do refers to Ranka then the song is a bit of an odd choice since I don’t think Sheryl had any doubts that Alto would stay with her in the immediate aftermath of his promise. But hey, if she’d already put a lot of work into the song, wouldn’t it be a shame to let it go to waste? (Though that does seem a bit wrong from a storytelling perspective.)

Sheryl came to the Frontier already a star in her own right from Galaxy. I assume, unless otherwise stated, that the songs she performs in the content of this story's timeline were already written, and just deemed poignant for that moment in the story.

Remember where this song is really featured in the series: in the eponymous episode in which this song really figures prominently, SMS is "abandoning" Frontier, striking out on their own much as a lover might leave his home, causing sorrow and sadness for the family. Made all the more poignant because Luca and Alto were part of the SMS "family," as well.

Quote:

As far as Sheryl’s possible doubts –I’m not entirely sure what to make of them at times. I think what she’s thinking in some particular scenes late in the series is probably a matter worth discussing. In general however I would say that she seems to have some, although she also seems to have times where she seems more sure of things. But then isn’t it natural for people to worry about whether a person they like likes them back? And one should really remember that Sheryl is shouldering a lot of responsibility and facing her own demise –I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s a royal mess on an emotional level at that point in the series. Heck, it wouldn’t overly surprise me if she was a bit back and forth on the issue of whether she thought Alto truly loved her or not.

Facing (apparently) inevitable death does tend to make one reconsider everything about their life, that's for sure. So Sheryl had a bit of an existential crisis. The scene where she passed out drunk with Alto is a good example of her living like she were dying.

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I’m a bit interested in hearing what some of other members have to say on the meaning of Northern Cross, particularly those members who have some understanding of Japanese.

My Japanese is not that great, but just from the perspective of someone who looks at musical motifs a lot, and is experienced in the criticism especially of musical symbolism, it's not hard to imagine that this is about a woman losing her beloved not to another woman, but to adventure.

But who knows. "Northern Cross" is a raw song, and gripping in a way that surpasses, for me at least, every other song in the series ("Diamond Crevasse" gets really close, though; I totally cried during the bunker scene, no lie). So whatever it's about, it's some emotional stuff. May'n's performance of this got the waterworks going for me before I could understand more than 1/5 of the lyrical content. That's some incomprehensible, but certainly tangible, emotion, whatever target it's directed to.