PalmAddicts has published a new interview with Palm Founder Jeff Hawkins. In it, Hawkins discusses his work at Numenta and Palm's "secret third business". Tantalisingly, he hints at a talk to come at Walt Mossberg's D Conference in May which he says Palm fans "should keep a close watch on".

"We’re going to be announcing something…but I won’t tell you what it is…we will be launching this year, not in the distant future. I’ll give you a much bigger hint: I’m going to be speaking at Walt Mossberg’s D Conference in May. It’s a high-end industry conference. Anyway, I’m going to be giving a talk there, and that would be something for the Palm fans to keep a close watch on."

Other highlights from the interview include Hawkins' thoughts on Palm's foray into Windows Mobile devices, which he basically describes as a move born out of fears of being shut out of Palm OS. He also states that it takes two years to design new products, hence why it will take a little time for the company's new-found control over its "destiny" to bear fruit.

My needs are a Palm TX2. Why? Because I've put the time in with Palm, I'm a Palm user of over a decade now (Pilot 5000, Jan 1997) I put my time in first waiting for a color Palm. Then, waiting for a high res color screen. Then, waiting for high res plus (virtual grafitti) areas. Each of these technology upgrades made me excited & made me run out to purchase the latest & greatest Palm.

So, I'm looking forward to a TX2. I've got the money ready. I just need a product. I thought I would see it last October. Then, I thought I would see it this February. But, Mr. Hawkins I've seen nothing! But, this product... it must be an extension of the Palm line... Not a continuation of the inferior screened, fatter treo line.

By the way, this past weekend I lost all hope. With all the Nokia is about to buy Palm rumors I gave up this weekend & realized that there will be no TX2. Palm will be purchased yet again, and we will enter a period of years of company insecurity.

Now, Mr. Hawkins gives this ridiculous tease. "Hey Palm fans, wait till you see what I've got for May." Ya? Ya? Thats all your giving me? At first I was blown away by this news. But now... Now I fear that your tremendous release is going to be another freaking low resolution treo but this time with wi-fi. So, Mr. Hawkins put up... or shut up.

Remember... When your swimming in information about upcoming products you can easily forget how frustrating it us for us little people who have waited over 2 years for some hope of a product upgrade.

RE: Is he serious?

I still want a Flash-based LifeDrive. With maybe 16-32GB. Yeah, I know that's expen$ive -- right now. They can put out one with 8GB Flash and then let slip on the grapevine that hackers can rip out the Flash card and put in a fatter one.

RE: Is he serious?

Now, Mr. Hawkins gives this ridiculous tease. "Hey Palm fans, wait till you see what I've got for May." Ya? Ya? Thats all your giving me? At first I was blown away by this news. But now... Now I fear that your tremendous release is going to be another freaking low resolution treo but this time with wi-fi. So, Mr. Hawkins put up... or shut up.

Sheesh, it's only two or three months away. You've already waited 2 years, what's a little bit longer? Patience!

However, I seriously doubt this new product announcement is going to have much to do with the Treo or Palm's PDA line. They wouldn't be calling it a "third business", were that the case. So if you're crossing your fingers for a TX2, you're probably going to be disappointed come May.

That's not to say I think Palm will never release a new PDA; just that this announcement isn't going to be one.

TimI apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

Emotion: Grrr, I hoped that Palm would release a TX2 in February (a traditional time in the past for Palm to announce/release new products.) Now that February was over I was ready to buy myself a new Palm TX. Now, I'm upset because I have to wait again. Will this mysterious third product be completely different, or will it have basic Palm organization functionality in addition to the new functions?

Logic: Palm can still release the TX2 at anytime. Michael Mace has speculated that since Palm Inc. now owns the naming rights to Palm OS they are close to announcing a linux based successor to Garnet/Palm OS that they have developed in-house. This would be a great time for Palm to announce a new TX2 or other products.

Logic: Meanwhile, based on my reading, and quotes from Mr. Hawkins logic suggests he is developing some sort of internet tablet ala Nokia 770. More reading suggests that this internet tablet will run a rich assortment of web-apps (hosted by Palm). Logic suggests this product will embrace "zen of palm" and be easy to carry (folding screen patents?), easy to access information etc. Business synergy suggests this product will also be able to manage your schedule & contacts. This will be a very interesting product. Though, despite a several year development process I think that May will only bring an announcement & not a product release. (e.g. Announced in May for September sales & then delayed in September.)

*blink blink*

Has he seen the current product line, and the current OS? Did he notice that Palm is selling WINDOWS FRICKIN' MOBILE devices?

He'd BETTER pull a rabbit out of his hat, because the only excuse for being that deluded about the current state of affairs would be if he's been in a bunker for three years with God's own product development team designing an ansible, or a cold fusion powered brain-scanning PDA.

RE: *blink blink*

^^ Well, no, he doesn't think that at all. His "Palm is healthier than ever" quote:

PJA: I think releasing WinMo devices was a smart move, in any case.

JEFF: It probably was; but here’s the thing: we didn’t have control of our own destiny for the past 5 years. We didn’t have our name, we didn’t have our brand, and we own our OS. We were struggling to get into the smartphone space, while we were losing our traditional distribution channels. It was a difficult time. While all this was going on, Palm kept growing; and, is still growing rapidly. Although there are lots of competitors, Palm is a very healthy company. We’ve been profitable for many consecutive quarters, years really; and, we’re making lots of money; and, we finally feel like we have control of our destiny back in our hands again.

Now, it takes a little but of time to turn that into products. It takes 2 years to design new products, and so you don’t see this control reflected immediately in the product line. In my view, this is a good time at Palm. In terms of viability, we have lots of cash, we’re profitable, and we’re in control of our own destiny. We haven’t been in this kind of shape in a long, long time.

Far from saying WinMob is why Palm is healthier than ever, he all but acknowledges that the main reason they got into WinMob in the first place was because they didn't know whether they were going to get back control of PalmOS or not.

Seems the only crazy person is you, moofie! :P

TimI apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: *blink blink*

**Now, it takes a little but of time to turn that into products. It takes 2 years to design new products, and so you don’t see this control reflected immediately in the product line. In my view, this is a good time at Palm. In terms of viability, we have lots of cash, we’re profitable, and we’re in control of our own destiny. We haven’t been in this kind of shape in a long, long time.**

This sounds more like pump and dump investor talk to me. Jeff's probably thinkin' pump this baby over $30 to the foos and I can at least cash out enough to pay for a yacht and years of brainware.

RE: *blink blink*

So, now that Palm is limping along finally having de-lobotomized itself, they're poised for a comeback! Whee!

I've been a fan of Palm since, well, forever. I've been gnashing my teeth at every boneheaded mistake they've been making over the last ten years, and I'm frankly stunned they're still in business. I really, really hope that Hawkins has a rabbit to pull out of his hat.

I might be the only person in the world who thinks this way, but I won't ever under any circumstances buy a WinMob device. I simply won't do it. If that's Palm's way forward, well, I guess I'll have to hope that the iPhone has enough third party interest to sustain it.

RE: *blink blink*

>>I did PPC. Don't give a damn how early my version was. WinMob 6 still sucks.

Amen. It is typical of MS that after Win Mob crested over Palm OS marketshare level, they stopped revising the OS UI paradign in any significant way. Which is a shame because they never got it right. I *hate* the whole thing and how it feels. It's is so claustrophobic and unintuitive. Yes its alive and healthy, but i can't shake the feeling the Win Mob emperor is wearing no clothes. When i hear WinMob fans presuming that it is 'more advanced' i cringe. yes it has multi-tasking - but what is 'more advanced'? It is not just a list of stock features and numbers - it is about the human interface. And MS never gets that right (amazingly enough after decades in the UI...!). Its contrary to their entire culture.

For 6 years I have worked for mobile software development companies and I have access to whatever device i want to use. I only use Win Mob devices when i have to, even though I can have my pick of the latest; i can't stand those things. Now if Palm really can take control of their destiny now that they have the OS back - they might bring the only usable mobile OS into the 21st century.

The best it's ever been?

Palm is in the best shape it's ever been? I'll have to defer to Hawkins on that. He IS the expert. Since it is in such wonderful shape hurry up and give me my clamshell Zire 73 phone I've been waiting for. The one with the 320x480 screen and G1 input.

I can't even fathom a guess at how his new device's capabilities could be exploited. A PDA that thinks like my brain? That's why I have a PDA--because my brain thinks like my brain. Would I be able to design my own preferences and GUI from the screen?

I'm not sure I'll want it but I am curious as heck.

RE: The best it's ever been?

Well, no one, least of all Hawkins, is suggesting that Numenta has anything to do with any products on Palm's horizon. The release they announced today was called a "Research Release" and Hawkins indicated in the interview that he thought it would take a while before products would emerge for this platform.

Still, it's hard not to think Hawkins doesn't consider the implications of the two companies for each other in the future.

RE: Too little too late.

Well, I for one am going to keep hoping. I would say Jeff has pretty much staked his reputation on the fact that we will like what he is going to offer. I mean he did bring us the original palm and the original treo.

RE: Too little too late.

Thats great - except Hawkins never said that Palm releases a new device every 2 years. He said it takes 2 years to develop and release a device. If Nokia releases a new phone every 9 months (I actuially believe they release a lot more then 1 every 9 months!), that doesnt tell us how long it took to develop each model now does it? You DO understand the difference right?

RE: Too little too late.

Ouch - my dumb. Giggle deserved.But the main point stands: there is no DIRECT correlation between frequency of device releases and the time it takes to release them. I.E. Nokia could release a handset every 9 days and it still might take each of these devices 2 years to get through design stage, prototype, FCC approval, and then to consumers.

RE: Too little too late.

RE: Too little too late.

And don't forget they are generally releasing models likexyz1... 9 day later... xyz2... 9 days... xyz3...All 3 models are the same phone hardware just with a different screen, or this one is dust proof, etc.Development time and costs are cut dramatically when they work like this.

So what's it going to be....

I reckon it's going to be a new Treo with more internal storage ( a la LifeDrive ) but the killer product will be the software.

Palm will introduce a product I'll call LifeManager. This will be quite similar to Nokia's LifeBlog in that it is a record of data sent to and from your phone, only much more. Using Hawkins' AI tools the new Palm device running LifeManager software will sit in the background as you use your device in day to day life. The AI algorithms will pattern match and learn about you from the data you receive and send, the photos you take and your general use of the device. Using this information the device will suggest new information you may be interested in and crucially, record and file you life in a blog type app. Just like LifeBlog, only much much better.

Well... it looks that way to me. In the modern world we are constantly being bombarded with information, unfortunately most of which is chaff. Hawkin's new technologies suggest the ability to effectively mine this data and contextualise it for the user. If that along with Palm's legendary usability isn't a killer app, I don't know what is.

Your comments?

RE: So what's it going to be....

I'm relieved

I so hope this means a successor to the T|X. I was having the same feelings I had just prior to the Tungsten release. If I have to wait 2 years, I'll wait, as long as I know it's coming. For me, the T|X is pretty darn close to perfect. For now, I'll be optimistic.

RE: I'm relieved

How about a Treo 700S! That's "S" for Symbian after Palm gets ingested by the cell fone monstrosity. Hawkins new release is the release of his shares at pumped-n-dumped $30+, in exchange for some caaaaaaaash! Gordy Gecko would be proud of him!

Disclaimer: I am an analyst, so you know this is all accurate. Although the suitor may be other than Nokia, substitutes such as Handera or Tapwave, for example. This post contains forward looking statements which should not be construed as factual, nor as investment advice.

refreshingly positive

I recommend reading the whole interview. I get frustrated (& worse pessimistic) about Palm reading most of the comments on this website but I'm not an insider or a computer whiz & the folks lamenting Palm here seem to know what they are talking about. But I know one thing....Hawkins invented what I've come to rely on for the last 9 years. If he's honestly optimistic....there's no reason for me not to be.

Still holding onto my T3 until I get a something along the lines of a thin, antenna-less, treo-like device that will run EVDO & no keyboard but has a stereo headphone jack. Am I even realistic to want this? Can you even have EVDO without an antenna? Is this anybody else dream PDA/smartphone, etc.

RE: refreshingly positive

^^ It's perfectly realistic to want that. No matter what Palm's Secret Third Business turns out to be, they still need to diversify the Treo line. They're crazy if they don't! And since we know they're not crazy, it's a safe bet we'll see some new Treo designs. When? is the question...

I suspect the STB is not going to be a smartphone or a PDA...

TimI apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: refreshingly positive

PDAs haven't been influential for the past 20 years

I guess I'm risking being flamed here but I was thinking of just what impact this "secret third business" may have on the smartphone and PDA landscape. Then I started thinking of which information technology milestones in the past two decades have had a major influence (and major sales) in our lives:

These have all had a major impact on how we spend both our working and leisure time.

Sadly the PDA is conspicuously absent from my list simply because it has never had the mass market appeal which all the other products had and do, unless you start calling mobiles/smartphones PDAs but even smartphones haven't had the mass market appeal of the other items in the list. I doubt PDA sales have generated revenue which has come close to any one of those items on the list. A good example? Sony stopped making PDAs but they still make cameras and games consoles, they found the money was to be made in selling those items and not in selling PDAs.

The big question is whether this secret third business will be up in this list ten years from now. Another big question is whether it'll put Palm ahead of other smartphone vendors; quite frankly, Palm is very much behind the pack.

RE: PDAs haven't been influential for the past 20 years

I speculate like a dolt

I hope it is a Palm OS based device along the lines of the Sony Vaio UX series with better battery life.

Wouldn't mind the following in no particular order:1) ability to plug in the mobile broadband card of my choice instead of a built in tied to Cingular.2) Wi-Fi3) SDIO / SDHC capable4) Flash hard-drive5) DO NOT REMOVE FUNCTIONALITY THAT EXISTS IN OLDER PRODUCTS

RE: I speculate like a dolt

Hopefully it won't need 3rd party software since most developers have left already.

I want something on the lines of a Nokia N800 with Palm OS backward compatibility. Being able to run either Palm or Linux applications. It would be able to take advantage of Web applications, sync with services like Google Calendar and Plaxo. It would Mount on my Mac or PeeCee as a drive and I could drag and drop MP3's or Vcal files into their repective folders.

Most of all I don't want it to be a freakin' phone! Never had a Treo and never will. If Palm insist on sticking with the Smartphone wave, they will end up going under. I just can't see them keeping up with the Nokia's of the world.

RE: I speculate like a dolt

I am still thinking--if there's ANYTHING concrete at all to this STB "chatter" (other than just pump & dump propaganda) it's going to be something tablet-sized (larger than a LifeDrive, smaller than a UMPC, about on par with a Nokia N800) with BT 2.0, Wi-Fi and EVDO and, possibly, no voice functionality (or at least voice only via BT headset). Integrated camera is a possibility but not the device's main focus. Maybe something Zodiac-sized but with a slightly larger screen?

Think of what would happen if a LifeDrive, an N800, and a Tungsten W merged into a single device.

I expect it to run a heavily modified version of WinMob 6 (with M$' assistance, naturally) and native "tweaked" StyleTap for Palm OS emulation. Palm/Hawkins will make a heavy push for multimedia on this thing (maybe bundle a MobiTV trial or something like that with it). A2DP and a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack will finally make an appearance!

There will be a strong push for server-side apps/services etc. The device itself will be relatively dumb, aside from the now-trendy 8gb of internal flash (still a feeble amount of memory) and a miniSD slot.

Along the same time we'll finally see the release of the underwhelming 700p ROM update along with two new Treos from Palm. They will be the 755p and the 755w, for CDMA networks only. They will basically be the Treo 750 formfactor but with the innards of the 700wx and a "fixed" version of the 700p. Both will have 320x320 LCDs.

I'd expect maybe two of the following features present: 2mp camera, 1.3mp camera w/ flash, 1gb of onboard flash, miniSDHC compatibility, higher-capacity slimline battery, 416mhz CPU. The 755w will have A2DP and/or another small feature or two to separate it from the "midrange" Palm OS version and to justify the $50 price difference between the two at retail. The FrankenGarnet version will be the most stable POS Treo yet and it'll inch forward with more of the same GUI improvements & tweaks introduced with the 700p and 680. It'll also probably be the final POS Treo unless Palm decides to do a low-end POS for both GSM & CDMA in the fall or early next year.

RE: I speculate like a dolt

== "...Anyway - it looks to THIS reader like PalmOne is for SURE== heading to what I mentioned with their redefinition of "converged== device" to allow multiple communicating devices (!!!). As such,== perhaps that "device" mentioned up there will be Coming Soon!== (albeit maybe not so converged that it's piggybacked...)

Think outside the the box!

Are all of you forgetting what Hawkins has said over the past year.Palm has 3 businesses.The PDA business.The Smartphone business.And a Third business.It's not a new PDA or a Smartphone its something else, working on the idea that we “all have a broadband modem in our pocket”.If it is hardware based I'll put my bets on a tablet of some kind but I doubt it UMPC just aren't a high enough growth aria and they would cannibalize even more of Palms already shrinking market.If its software based we will probably be looking at a mix of web hosting and mobile portal of some kind.Hawkins said “we are a mobile computing business” first and foremost.

Don't you just love cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.

Numenta announcement

I just got an email from Numenta (Donna Dubinsky) with some interesting links:

"I am pleased to announce the availability today of the Research Release of the Numenta Platform for Intelligent Computing (NuPIC). In addition, today also marks the debut of our new web site that includes many features focused on building a developer community.I'm sure you're wondering, what does this mean, Research Release?Perhaps you're also wondering, what does this mean, the Numenta Platform for Intelligent Computing??

The Numenta Platform for Intelligent Computing is a set of tools and a runtime engine, including embedded learning algorithms, that enables self-training and pattern recognition based on the theories of hierarchical temporal memory (HTM). I recommend that you spend some time at our web site to read the white papers and see the presentations that explain this platform and this technology in depth.

The Research Release is a no-charge version of the Numenta Platform for experimentation purposes. I invite you to read the note from Jeff Hawkins ( http://www.numenta.com/for-developers/software/note-from-jeff.php ) on our web site that describes what we are trying to accomplish in this release, and who should consider downloading it. I also recommend reading my entry in the Numenta blog ( http://www.numenta.com/for-developers/blog.php ) to explain the license structure. Finally, once you've downloaded the release, be sure to check out our web tools for developers, including a forum, wiki's and a blog written by members of the Numenta team.

We welcome your participation in this community, but we must warn you up front; the tools are new, the platform is young, and the concepts are sometimes difficult. To make real progress, you can expect to dedicate significant time to learning the material, and then applying it to your problem domain. We hope that you will be an active participant, sharing your work, reporting bugs, and contributing to our forums.

There may be great effort required, but we believe that the pay-off will be great as well. We feel confident in saying that HTM technology will provide the foundation for the next generation of computing, intelligent computing. We are pleased that our first generation platform, NuPIC, affords you the opportunity to begin to experiment with the platform, ultimately offering you the opportunity to create powerful, new computing applications.

We look forward to hearing your feedback, your issues, and your successes, as you being to work with NuPIC.

RE: Numenta announcement

Sigh... most of the folks on this forum probably don't even know what New Coke is. We used to drink it while watching VHS tapes of The Breakfast Club that we rented from Erol's or while listening to cassettes of REO Speedwagon and Duran Duran.

RE: Numenta announcement

Ok, now you are scaring me, David. :-)"New" Coke; what were they thinking?!!I bought the Breakfast club on DVD for my daughter. She had pretty much worn out the VHS recording I had made from a TV broadcast 20 years ago. It is now probably her all-time, most-watched movie. Be afraid, be very afraid.

RE: Numenta announcement

"Sigh... most of the folks on this forum probably don't even know what New Coke is. We used to drink it while watching VHS tapes of The Breakfast Club that we rented from Erol's or while listening to cassettes of REO Speedwagon and Duran Duran."

For me it was while playing ColecoVision and watching Friday Night Videos. By the way, the first cassette I ever bought was Reo's Hi Infidelity. Ah yes, that transition from 8-track.

RE: Numenta announcement

RE: Numenta announcement

I for one take it very seriously. Seriously enough to download the SDK and set aside some (pretty expensive) time to work with it. I know others who have already done the same (Palm developers, interestingly). I'm not an AI expert by any means, thought I studied neural nets, genetic algorithms and agoric systems back in my Ph.D program days. Hawkins is not ignorant of the work in these fields and I don't think he's doing this just for the fun feeling of being proven the fool. I don't know where this will go, but the up-side potential and sheer curiosity make it difficult for me to ignore.

RE: Numenta announcement

I think it's more like a couple of old farts with a strange sense of humor doing a little reminiscing. It isn't really about Numenta at all.

But, however cool, revolutionary, and serious Numenta may be, I don't think it will be running my next handheld device. Not unless Hawkins has a lot more magic up his sleeve than I had previously thought.

Waiting till May

I keep putting off purchasing a new POS device. Can't get myself to go in for WinDOHs More_Bile. Now I gotta wait till May to even hear how much longer I should consider waiting. Oh well... Anyway I've been keeping an eye on the Slingplayer for POS as well. The way the beta is going, I suspect that that will also become a public beta in May. Keeping an eye on both of these is making me cock-eyed.

PalmInfocenter.com is not affiliated with or endorsed by Palm Inc. or HP.
Any use of the word Palm is for discussion purposes and is a registered trademark of Palm Inc.
Unauthorized use or reproduction of content is strictly forbidden.