That's not a slight on Cavill who I think could be an excellent Superman with the right material and direction. The biggest waste is that he has natural charm and a great smile and the majority of the time he has the same blank expression. If you'd never seen him in anything else you could be forgiven for thinking he was a very limited actor only selected for his physical remeblrnce to Superman.

It isn't a good film for him, even some of his deliveries and expressions aren't quite right. However he could get better direction, he was brilliant in UNCLE but then he was working with Guy Ritchie on that picture and he's a good director.

Cavill deserves better. We deserve better

__________________You above all should know there's plenty wrong with me

Thanks for pointing that out but I was comparing his Physique from MOS to the one in BVS. I never claimed it wasn't impressive just that it falls short when compared to his Physique in the first movie.

__________________Zac Snyder movies only make sense....................if you force them to.

Umm...a little something called a bomb exploded just as he was about to, killing all those around him to whom he came to speak to.

But this is fiction, where you have every chance to engineer the reality you're building for a desired effect. No one here was a slave to "the little something called a bomb" so much that a shock plot point had to take precedence over important characterization. Many people seem to have seen this scene as an opportunity to fill in a blank, to make up for something that was missing in the character that's being built on screen. Plenty of effective/memorable scenes in moviedom have been dependent on that: filmmakers not failing to squeeze juice out of a moment. If they opted for way B instead of way A, fine. But it takes actual pretending to believe that this was "duh, the only option they had".

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf2

btw, what would you like to hear?

i fight for the truth, justice and the whatever way?
i'm here to inspire hope???

what would you like superman to say to those who suffer / injured due to the consequences of his action?

And that's where writers come in. Seriously. They put words in characters' mouths that reflect personalities, beliefs, intentions. A well-done job on their part will be people believing the opposite of "there was nothing to say".

Thanks for pointing that out but I was comparing his Physique from MOS to the one in BVS. I never claimed it wasn't impressive just that it falls short when compared to his Physique in the first movie.

He's 10kg heavier than he was in MoS and 6% body fat in BvS according to hs trainer. They went for more size because in BvS he was standing next to Batman and given Bruce's naturally larger frame he needed the physique to look like equals.

But this is fiction, where you have every chance to engineer the reality you're building for a desired effect. No one here was a slave to "the little something called a bomb" so much that a shock plot point had to take precedence over important characterization. Many people seem to have seen this scene as an opportunity to fill in a blank, to make up for something that was missing in the character that's being built on screen. Plenty of effective/memorable scenes in moviedom have been dependent on that: filmmakers not failing to squeeze juice out of a moment. If they opted for way B instead of way A, fine. But it takes actual pretending to believe that this was "duh, the only option they had".

And that's where writers come in. Seriously. They put words in characters' mouths that reflect personalities, beliefs, intentions. A well-done job on their part will be people believing the opposite of "there was nothing to say".

You need to look at the Senate scene as a Lex moment (his triumphant victory), not a Superman moment. When you realise that everything in this movie happens because of Lex then you'll see it through a different lens.
Robbing Superman of this critical moment was Lex winning.

He's 10kg heavier than he was in MoS and 6% body fat in BvS according to hs trainer. They went for more size because in BvS he was standing next to Batman and given Bruce's naturally larger frame he needed the physique to look like equals.

There is a line in the trailer for the Ultimate Edition of BvS that got to me. It was from an African woman being interviewed on the news. She is asked if there is anything she would like to say to Superman. She says:
“My family had dreams too. I will look him in the eye and ask him which lives count and which do not.”

tough, tough, tough question...

Zack Snyder took it too seriously... superhero movie is just like any typical commercial pop-culture. why so serious???

see now... they are all grumbling. superman doesn't exist, zack snyder. don't make him real!!! people can't handle reality!!! people watching superhero movie to escape from reality!!! don't you understand!!!??? just show him saving innocents and punching the bad guys will do.

There is a line in the trailer for the Ultimate Edition of BvS that got to me. It was from an African woman being interviewed on the news. She is asked if there is anything she would like to say to Superman. She says:
“My family had dreams too. I will look him in the eye and ask him which lives count and which do not.”

tough, tough, tough question...

Zack Snyder took it too seriously... superhero movie is just like any typical commercial pop-culture. why so serious???

see now... they are all grumbling. superman doesn't exist, zack snyder. don't make him real!!! people can't handle reality!!! people watching superhero movie to escape from reality!!! don't you understand!!!??? just show him saving innocents and punching the bad guys will do.

You need to look at the Senate scene as a Lex moment (his triumphant victory), not a Superman moment. When you realise that everything in this movie happens because of Lex then you'll see it through a different lens.
Robbing Superman of this critical moment was Lex winning.

I get it, but as a mean of building a character, it's pretty unwise. "At the expense of" they call it.

There is a line in the trailer for the Ultimate Edition of BvS that got to me. It was from an African woman being interviewed on the news. She is asked if there is anything she would like to say to Superman. She says:
“My family had dreams too. I will look him in the eye and ask him which lives count and which do not.”

tough, tough, tough question...

Zack Snyder took it too seriously... superhero movie is just like any typical commercial pop-culture. why so serious???

see now... they are all grumbling. superman doesn't exist, zack snyder. don't make him real!!! people can't handle reality!!! people watching superhero movie to escape from reality!!! don't you understand!!!??? just show him saving innocents and punching the bad guys will do.

Yeah because people hate it when you use superheroes to tell a serious story with compelling themes. That's why those Nolan batman films all flopped and were so poorly recieved.
Oh, wait...

I stilk say keep the tone they're doing. It helps differentiate from Marvel. But don't be afraid to throw in more smiles, jokes and levity. Not so much it becomes AoU. But let's say every DC movie should be in the tone of The Winter Soldier at it's darkest.

More than jokes, future sequels need to contain some positivity, and a general air of hope. BVS was just so depressing, it seemed like everyone (except Lois?) only had negative things to say about heroism.

__________________The poster formerly known as RachelDawes

Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters. - Greg Rucka

Yeah because people hate it when you use superheroes to tell a serious story with compelling themes. That's why those Nolan batman films all flopped and were so poorly recieved.
Oh, wait...

maybe Nolanverse is still playing safe and not serious enough?
have Nolan tackled batman in reality, as if he exists in a real world?? what would the real public reaction and police reaction on him??
sorry i can't recall BB, watched it once and didn't like it.

maybe Nolanverse is still playing safe and not serious enough?
have Nolan tackled batman in reality, as if he exists in a real world?? what would the real public reaction and police reaction on him??
sorry i can't recall BB, watched it once and didn't like it.

!!!!!

And there goes your last shred of credibility!

__________________You above all should know there's plenty wrong with me

Not really. They had the perfect chance for Superman to give his answer, but they didn't use it.

Superman isn't God. As for the real God, anyone who cares to have such questions answered can find out.

indeed. but in the movie, almost everybody treating him as one, from batman, Lex, Wallace, the African lady, the news commentators, and the people. asking him all sorta 'god' questions... trying to nail him down...

and the movie shows it. superman isn't God. he is just Clark Kent. a very brave man... and Bruce didn't fail superman in live. he failed Clark Kent in live...

indeed. but in the movie, almost everybody treating him as one, from batman, Lex, Wallace, the African lady, the news commentators, and the people. asking him all sorta 'god' questions... trying to nail him down...

and the movie shows it. superman isn't God. he is just Clark Kent. a very brave man... and Bruce didn't fail superman in live. he failed Clark Kent in live...

Yeah, and they all ended up looking pretty silly. I don't know what it about this obsession with Superman and being a god that some people like to deal with. It pretty much never works.

I don't think it really showed anything about him not being a god. They just throw all these references and whatnot and really do nothing with it. Just questions and ideas they didn't really bother to answer or deal with. Maybe they do a better job with it in the extender version, but I doubt it.

Yeah, and they all ended up looking pretty silly. I don't know what it about this obsession with Superman and being a god that some people like to deal with. It pretty much never works.

I don't think it really showed anything about him not being a god. They just throw all these references and whatnot and really do nothing with it. Just questions and ideas they didn't really bother to answer or deal with. Maybe they do a better job with it in the extender version, but I doubt it.

If a flying man appears in the sky with incredible powers, you don’t think people will regard his as God in real life???

I thought they did an excellent job showing superman is just Clark Kent.

Did you see that he was nervous during the senate hearing. His head was down… the senator had to raise her voice and called him ‘sir’ to get his attention…

he is a flawed character, he has doubts on his dream. he is not perfect, he gets angry, he loves and adores the main women in his life. Without his powers, he is just a regular joe, but a very brave one. he stands up against batman bullying.

I relate to that more than someone saving a helicopter or plane and then giving a dorky line "still safest way to fly". I know people like that, but I just can't relate to someone like that. Or be fond of someone like that anymore.