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Does make one wonder: Is it assumed that men (gay or straight) simply don't care about sharing their "men issues" out in the open? Are women's issues automatically deemed as more sensitive? If so, why? We guys have discussed erections and anal pap smears and god knows what all on here. Somehow I made the mental leap that living with HIV/AIDS had put us all in a realm a bit beyond that kind of sensitivity, in that dealing with this disease almost necessarily brings about discussions of sexuality, drug abuse, mental health issues, etc. I kind of thought the disease itself, coupled with the relative anonymity of the web had kind of blown those walls down a bit.

I don't begrudge the new forum really. If people feel they need that kind of space...well, whatever it takes to get the talk to happen, I suppose. I'm just a bit suprised to find it was felt to be needed. And also left to ponder the first question: are women just automatically assumed to require additional sensitivity and men just expected to have male topics out there in the general field?

philly ,you`re my man !and thunder you too !I`m thinking about writing a letter to a forum moderators How about that?

Maybe this is why some of the ladies here have asked for the forum, because of flippant remarks like that..they have different needs that maybe some of you just don't understand.

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Insert QuoteThe disease does not discriminate...why make it harder?

Jeff I agree 100%..but this is not about Male V Females per se...it's about the different things a women's body goes through while living with HIV...wether you like it or not we are very different and our bodies react differently to this virus...I think the object is to make it easier for women to talk about these things..not harder.

I have never had any problems in any of the forums, when I have asked for help I have been given it and always with love and respect, I'm very open about my status but would rather keep my personal issues between myself family and off forum friends, but there are ladies out there who are afraid to disclose to friends and family and don't have anyone to talk to about personal "Female" issues and would find this a good place to come to for help and support...what possible harm would it do to give it to them.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Once again the men take the opportunity to make a new women's forum all about men. Spin it out by asking, "well what about Inuit Eskimo line dancers, shouldn't they be represented?" As gay men you would think we would be more in tune to the subtle and not so subtle undertones of sexism. I support the desire for a "positive woman" forum and predict it's success.

This is not a zero sum game. Women can have their forum and things can continue as usual. I don't find it polarizing at all. Not everyone can take the ridicule, humour, sometimes hashed out here. And that's okay, everyone is different, and women do have diverse psychosocial and physical needs from men when it comes to HIV. Not supporting this is in my opinion being unsopportive of a gender that was the most supportive during the first days of this disease. It was women supporting gay men, a large percentage from the lesbian community who took care of people with this affliction, mostly gay men. Let the women have their forum!!!!!!!!!!! This is getting really petty.

My intention was not so ever to discriminate anybody .My intention was only to make things simple to everyone of us.

In fact it has been done in the "POZ mentor" site where you can pick up a theme to discuss incl. little children regardless your sexual orientation , mental issues , exercise , etc, etc...............But it is always better to talk in front of the larger audience and find the right kind of answer quicker............And yes we men regardless our sexual orientation do have some sensitive issues too..............Motherhood ? Where is the fatherhood ?Anal pap smear ?What about sex life when you do not have it anymore because your partner is too afraid ? Isn't`t that theme specific and painful at the same time regardless your status?

I was just happy when I have found this site because only here I could reveal myself 100 % . Yes there have been some answers that I was not pleased of , but it is like in a real life.........but everything was better than an feeling of being despite.( like I was before I have found this site).

Some of sensitive topic themes would be OK for everyone ( children's , mental state .....) and some not , I agree with that , but , my intention was not to put a fire into a oil , ..........

My intention was to help.If I do not know answer to a certain question I would not answer it.................but I would do my best to help and answer to a question that I do know.Or to help at any other way that is possible to me ( pointing to a right person , doctor , website , etc, etc)Yes , we are indeed in this all together , and I was just thinking that it would be much more easier for someone to find just what he needs to if we do have some more thread options...............Again , thank you all for your answers and help.............You all have been of great heplp to me and have literary pulled me up from a dark ,dark , psycho well where I have been justa months or two ago. Al

You were out of line, and so is anyone who does not think that women should have their own forum if they want it. What is the cost in that? Threads that can't be hijacked by the usual suspects? Conflicts that can't be joined by the usual suspects? Get over it now please, and let the ladies have their forum. If you want to start a men's forum, request it. I'm sure the women would be fine with that. Why does it have to be an "I want what she has" issue. Didn't get that barbie as a child? Weren't allowed to enter the little Miss Brooklyn Contest? Me neither, but I got over it. Women are the pillars of civilization, they carried us for nine months...you know the spiel. Give them a little respect please. Why would you want to begrudge them that?

Although I have not found myself "under the spotlight " so to speak , I must say that I respect woman a lot and I do think that they shold have their own forum .My wish was just to enlarge this site with some more specific themes................And that was about all that I was thinking ( and willing to wrote ) to this theme.Again thanks to all............... Al

Be it known and reiterated that I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with a new forum for women's issues on here.

None. Zero. Zilch.

I was in favor when the "Someone I Care About" forum started. I'm in favor now. Like I stated above, whatever it takes to get the necessary dialogue to happen. For that matter, it's occured to me before that this sort of thing might need to occur (although I was thinking more in terms of youth issues at the time). I haven't had a chance to read through all these posts yet, but my anger meter was buzzing. I was sensing some heat. I'll have a look. But as I said, the forum- and some of the responses to it- made me ponder the differences in how men and women are viewed in terms of sensitivity issues. That's all. Period.

Dunno... I just find it a bit "Balkanization" in that the forum is "closed" -- locked unless you place "female" in your profile. Personally I'd find it interesting on a personal level exactly what these unique feminine HIV issues are. Not to make fun of them but purely for edification purposes.

It's a little known fact that philly267 once lived with a girl for 2 years (i.e. co-habitation and continual sex... hell, even got her pregnant) as well as co-habitated non-sexually with another straight girl for 18 years... I know much about women's bodies and issues!)

It strikes me as somewhat elitist. I guess gay men have no "private" issues then. I apologize if anyone takes umbrage at my views, as they seem purely democratic in nature.

I'm all for it, and glad that space has been provided for some of our more shy female members to have a safe place to discuss personal issues.I just don't personally plan on spending much, if any time there. I have always felt completely safe with everyone here. If ever I posted a fear, or concern, I have always been treated with great care and respect.I understand the premise behind the new forum, and I am glad that Peter et al had the sensitivity to make it possible.Here's to hoping for a successful new forum.

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No Fear No Shame No StigmaHappiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Personally, I think it's a pretty good idea. And furthermore, I think it's just fine that men not post in there. The negatrons are barred from posting in the Living With forum... no one complains about that.

I don't think it's going to turn into the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival in there or anything like that.

But I do have serious question to ask.

What about the transgendered? I mean, would a pre-op MTF be barred from posting in that forum?

I am all for the women having a place! Maybe the wife will post more! That being said, this picture is what came to mind with some of the bitching about the new forum.

It's wrong, but damn it's funny.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Whether you are HIV positive yourself, or one of your friends or family is living with HIV, you have come to the right place for support and information. Feel free to ask questions or even just come here to vent if that's what you need. Living with HIV can be a rollercoaster ride of emotions and no matter what you're going through, there's sure to be a forum member - or twenty! - who can empathise.

There is no rule against Scott being here. He has been in my life for over 15 years. What's your point if not a personal attack?

Here we go again, indeed. I want to know why it is ok for your group of cheerleaders to get your pom poms out to practice your routines time and again, but I am somehow inflammatory for merely mentioning scottt? I'm just saying that Living With doesn't seem to have an exclusion against negative people posting. And saying that scotttt is being quite vocal in this forum is not an attack. It's just a statement of fact.

Yeesh.

PS- Absolutely not interested in getting into some fight right now....especially in a thread such as this one. No argument from me on the women's forum. All I have to say.

Dunno... I just find it a bit "Balkanization" in that the forum is "closed" -- locked unless you place "female" in your profile.

I see nothing wrong with the women's forum. I do think we all should at least be able to read it if not actually post so I checked philly's observation. I was able to get all the way to where I could write a post. Maybe when the time comes to post a comment I would have been prevented. didn't go that far. Of course maybe I am more fucked up than I thought and checked female on my profile. Who knows,

woods

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

I see nothing wrong with the women's forum. I do think we all should at least be able to read it if not actually post so I checked philly's observation. I was able to get all the way to where I could write a post. Maybe when the time comes to post a comment I would have been prevented. didn't go that far. Of course maybe I am more fucked up than I thought and checked female on my profile. Who knows,

woods

I really don't either. I think the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I'm already seeing a sprinkling of posts in gratitude for the new forum. That's good enough for me.

I don't think the boards have been set up to prevent us from posting- at least not yet. I just think it is an earnest request being made because I was almost at the point of posting myself before I saw the request not to. Either that....or even the software itself reads us both as big ol' women.

The new section in the Forum is simply intended to create a safe space for women to exchange thoughts, ideas, raise issues of interest and otherwise express themselves. For some reason some seem to take it as an affront or a criticism of their sexual politics.

And that's right, only women are supposed to post in there. How about giving it a chance and seeing how it works (or doesn't)?

..........................IHave, I don't know if you've seen the thread Ann started about not interjecting massive photos into LIVING WITH threads. Even when they maybe witty, (sometimes), in the case of the two you have posted here they just simply become interruptions in the conversation.

I am asking you and others to respect Ann's request that using photos of that sort be kept to the Off Topic section.

I was merely requesting clarification of posting rules in light of the new Women's Only Room?

Philly,

We request that hiv negative people do not post in the Living side of the forums UNLESS they are also living with hiv themselves. That means they live with/care for a lover, close friend, or relative who is hiv positive. We expect hiv negative friends, families and lovers to understand there are subtle limits to their participation on this side of the forum and none of our members who fit this description ever really infringe on those limits.

As for the women's forum, we request that men do not post there. If women want feedback from men on something, they can post in the Living forum - or whatever forum seems appropriate to them.

I'm no prude, but there are plenty of things women don't feel comfortable posting about when they know men might respond. Our monthly cycles are one - and is something I don't like posting about in the general forum, but yet have a lot of problems with. No matter how many women a man has lived with, no man will ever really "get" what it's like dealing with periods and more so when you also happen to be hiv positive. Going to the shop for tampons does not qualify you. Sorry.

If it makes more women feel confident enough to start posting here more often, thereby gaining support and information, then how can it be a bad thing?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I see nothing wrong with the women's forum. I do think we all should at least be able to read it if not actually post so I checked philly's observation. I was able to get all the way to where I could write a post. Maybe when the time comes to post a comment I would have been prevented. didn't go that far. Of course maybe I am more fucked up than I thought and checked female on my profile. Who knows,

woods

I too am in favor of the women's forum, but the "no men" rule (which applies to even the most respectful and sensitive of men, even those who might have useful resource contact numbers or info) also sort of rubbed me the wrong way. This means that women can post in any forum, while men cannot. In other words, our female users can choose which issues are too sensitive for the other gender to comment, whereas men don't have that luxury (and sometimes, given the emotional and physiological aspects of this disease and treatment, including sex drive issues and things like anal pap smears, as was mentioned above, men might feel more comfortable with others who have the same parts). Maybe there should be a men's forum specifically for those sensitive issues. Even if it isn't widely used, at least it'd be there in case someone wants to use it.

I'm no prude, but there are plenty of things women don't feel comfortable posting about when they know men might respond. Our monthly cycles are one - and is something I don't like posting about in the general forum, but yet have a lot of problems with. No matter how many women a man has lived with, no man will ever really "get" what it's like dealing with periods and more so when you also happen to be hiv positive. Going to the shop for tampons does not qualify you. Sorry.

That is certainly true, Ann, but by the same token, no woman will ever really "get" what it's like to be a man. We each have our own concerns and sensitivities, and those should be respected. As I said (perhaps not too clearly) in my post above, what bothers me about the women's forum is that it gives them a specific place just for women, but there isn't a corresponding opportunity (a special safe zone) for men. As it stands, on this board a man can post about prostate checks, anal pap smears, or impotence, and women are perfectly free to comment on it regardless of whether the poster feels comfortable with this. This would seem to trivialize men's own sensitivities and iissues (HIV-related or not), and this type of forum is no place for anyone to feel marginalized.

Are you requesting a place just for men so noboddy feels left out? I don't think it would be necessary. But you can always request that. The only thing is, and Ann correct me if I am wrong, that it never was an issue until the women got their forum. Obviously the women have been expressing this need for some time for reasons already stated.

From my experience on the planning committee for the yearly PLWH/A's state confrence, at the end of the 2nd day we always had support group meetings and the women's group is always the largest attended, and holds the record for lenth of time. We give a set time to 'officially' end the meetings but leave it up to the facilitator's, who all agree if the discussions are on track let them go till when ever.

We found that having female, hetro male, glbt groups, people tend to open up more, are more willing and at easy talking about personal issues.

Applying that knowledge, I think it would work just as well here. The privacy on a forum would be effected but sometimes total privacy hinders one's ability to assist someone with issues they have.

Just my 2 cents when you didn't ask for a penny..

Peace love and health,Ody

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Take a deep breath and forgive yourself, no since in you making it harder, that's someone else's job and you know they are more qualified, just ask um!

I am a supporter of the group, but not if they are going to pick and choose which men are allowed to post. Not that I want to post, but I certainly don't want people to feel excluded. If they are going to have no men posting rules then they should stick to them(a nice guy posted and he was told he could post any time), otherwise it's just another exclusionary club.

However, too many new forums and it will dilute the message? I've seen forums with about 30 sections - too hard to navigate.

Not a comment about HIV, just about forums.

R

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NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

I'm 100% in favour of the "positive women's" forum, I'm hoping it will bring more ladies to the site....and personally I have no problem with any of the guys here offering advise and support there, as long as it is sincere and does not attract any smutty jokes or innuendos, I'm sure there are many here who are understanding of our needs, just as I'm sure there are many who really don't want to know about those monthly visits or anything else to do with vagina's...

To be fair to the guys I think those who have information that will help the ladies of this forum then I see no reason why they can't give their support and post in that forum..as Jake so rightly stated nobody stops us from posting in their threads and supporting them.

How about giving this new women's forum a chance instead of critiquing it before it's even begun?

Men are welcome to read whatever is in there. If a guy finds a topic in there he would like to discuss there's nothing to stop him from opening a thread here. Hopefully it will not become a way of having cross-Forums flaming.

Just as a point of information, a Women's Caucus was formed in ACT UP which evolved into an important part of the organization. And yes, it was women only.