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Man shot to death in Soulard

This was my wife's cousin, he was enjoying a night out at a club called Social house in Soulard. As he was leaving witnesses stated that two black males dressed in all black clothing, came from around the corner and started shooting. He was shot six times for no reason, they did not rob him they just shot him and ran off. He had his CCW but was unarmed because he was drinking, I am sorry but this law about drinking and carrying is BS, he may have survived had he been armed. I can only hope that these cowards get what they deserve, and people wise up and finally see that they need to be armed at all times.

This was my wife's cousin, he was enjoying a night out at a club called Social house in Soulard. As he was leaving witnesses stated that two black males dressed in all black clothing, came from around the corner and started shooting. He was shot six times for no reason, they did not rob him they just shot him and ran off. He had his CCW but was unarmed because he was drinking, I am sorry but this law about drinking and carrying is BS, he may have survived had he been armed. I can only hope that these cowards get what they deserve, and people wise up and finally see that they need to be armed at all times.

First off, let me say my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family at this time. The loss of a family member never comes easy.

with that said, HFA380, KYLEMOUL, and myself were sort of discussing this in the Salem /Licking thread. Long story short, I believe under Missouri state law it is not illegal to be intoxicated and in posession of a firearm.

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

(2) Sets a spring gun; or

(3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, AND handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner OR discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

Now I went back and added emphasis/capitalization in # 5, and this I think is the one that will clarify my reason for posting. The two word I refered to (AND/OR) makes all the difference in the world in how this law is interpreted. Posession of a firearm while intoxicated in itself is not illegal. A person has to also do one, of the two other things to be in violation of the law. Handle and use in negligant and unlawful manner OR discharge in a non SELF-defense situation. This became law in August 28 2010.

Yes , after a other discussions on this same topic on this form i also am of the opinion that it is not illegal !

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"The shores of history are littered with the wrecks of civilizations, where once free men trusted their rights and liberty to a wholly centralized government"

I don't mean to upset anyone ! But my opinion counts as well and I'll have to disagree. From the Law Enforcement and Fire/EMS side of things I do not believe one should be allowed to carry while intoxicated. People make poor decisions when drinking and having a firearm would make those decisions worse. That's the reason I do not drink anymore. I am armed 24/7 !!!!

I don't mean to upset anyone ! But my opinion counts as well and I'll have to disagree. From the Law Enforcement and Fire/EMS side of things (I do not believe) one should be allowed to carry while intoxicated. People make poor decisions when drinking and having a firearm would make those decisions worse. That's the reason I do not drink anymore. I am armed 24/7 !!!!

While I respect your opinion, and your right to express that opinion. I was trying to inform someone of the law as it was explained to me, not an opinion.

Upon reading the the law in Mo statutes: I am very interested in knowing if you disagree, based upon your opinion of the law, or your interpretation of what the law says and means, from a law enforcement/fire/EMS viewpoint.

Now my condolences go out to the family members and friends of the man who died in this tragedy.

Having said that definitely had to know this discussion would go south in a hurry!I in no way advocate or promote drinking+ carrying but i will play the evil twin brother on this one.

I understand and value that each person has a right to choose what they will and will not do. But that’s why we have the option to choose not to drink, not to carry, to carry, or to carry and drink.

Each person is different and while you view obviously people who drink as poor decision makers others may not. While I do see lot drinkers as the common idiots that do repeatedly do stupid things. I do believe that we should give each person a chance before we start convicting them and taking there rights away.-I think you should actually have to break the law before you go to jail, I also think that we should not take peoples options away.

While it’s one thing to go out and get falling down drunk and stupid and entirely another to go out and have a glass of wine or beer with dinner but, you sir seem to be putting them all in the same category.

The right to self defense should NOT be limited because someone chooses to have a glass of wine & before it was a felony as I recall.

Second off I also do not believe that as a Law enforcement/Fire EMS or whatever your professional capacity you should even have an opinion. As a civilian regular person sure everyone is entitled to theirs.

Question---DO they ban cars because there are car crashes? While there are many people out there that seek to protect us from ourselves. I for one believe in and support one’s ability to make choices and only you know what choices are best for you. If you don’t drink that’s fine! But, you limiting my rights because you don’t do them------Normally I would enter one of my “YOU MIGHT BE A DEMOCRATE IF” but maybe I won’t quite go that far…………………………….

I firmly believe that those people that will go out and get drunk and do STUPID things! They will not have that or their rights very long and they will weed them self’s out. It’s called ----NATURAL SELECTION-LOL

While I understand you outlook and that the possibly of having a sidearm at ready available while you were partaking in a few adult beverages (after all we are adults) right? A good case could be made the same way for being mad. Shall we take your wife away because you may get mad and hit her? No let’s let you make that mistake first and you can deal with the consequences.

Statistics have shown that a weapon is merely a tool take away one in a given situation and someone will find something else to go in its place.
The root problem is not the Alcohol it’s not the gun! It’s the PEOPLE! it a fact of life there are BAD people out there. SO what do we have to our guns! This man attempting to follow the very rule you advocate died without the possibly of a chance to even defend himself.

As many people throughout history have found out relying on law enforcement to protect us the help is just not there when it’s needed.

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"The shores of history are littered with the wrecks of civilizations, where once free men trusted their rights and liberty to a wholly centralized government"

THE ONLY OPINION THAT ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER SHOULD HAD SHOULD BE THE LEGAL ONE PERIOD! People start injecting there opinions into there official capacity and all hell breaks loose and next thing you know things are ANACHY

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"The shores of history are littered with the wrecks of civilizations, where once free men trusted their rights and liberty to a wholly centralized government"

I am not going to participate in a legal or moral debate in a thread containing such information. Your wife's cousin was a free man making free choices he thought best, and the thugs whom killed him are the problem, not him or his choices, may they find themselves in the darkest of all places soon.

John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

I am not going to participate in a legal or moral debate in a thread containing such information. Your wife's cousin was a free man making free choices he thought best, and the thugs whom killed him are the problem, not him or his choices, may they find themselves in the darkest of all places soon.

+1

I mean no disrespect to XD, his family, or Mr Clavin. Those who killed him are the ONLY ones, responsible for this atrocity.

My comments were only to try and clarify a possible misunderstanding of the law. And by all means, I would rather kill the thread than anyone taking offense, as to the intent of my comments.