Zeek

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

trettep

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

Paul

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trettep

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

so do ignorant ones, then have an excuse??

I believe Jesus affirms that when He said this:

Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

I'm editing to add. That I believe they are guilty of sin but not guilty of having betrayed Christ.

Paul

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trettep

I would love to go into that Zeek, but I been informed about lingering sensitivities on the forum by a moderator about teaching and my thoughts on that are very radical as compared to the mainstream and I might risk being banned from this forum. But if you want to contact me privately outside of the forum via email, I would be more than happy to tell you about my thoughts on that.

I would love to go into that Zeek, but I been informed about lingering sensitivities on the forum by a moderator about teaching and my thoughts on that are very radical as compared to the mainstream and I might risk being banned from this forum. But if you want to contact me privately outside of the forum via email, I would be more than happy to tell you about my thoughts on that.

Paul

By all means Your Welcome to share your thoughts and if need be expound on them Paul ,Teaching \preaching per say is when WE INSIST to others ,WE are RIGHT and YOU are wrong.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 10:46:16 PM by Taffy »

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

trettep

By all means Your Welcome to share your thoughts and if need be expound on them Paul ,Teaching \preaching per say is when WE INSIST to others ,WE are RIGHT and YOU are wrong.

Taffy, I have your permission I would like to start another thead on that subject or more specifically one called "Who is the Serpent". I know my remarks in it will lead to many questions that would derail this thread.

By all means Your Welcome to share your thoughts and if need be expound on them Paul ,Teaching \preaching per say is when WE INSIST to others ,WE are RIGHT and YOU are wrong.

Taffy, I have your permission I would like to start another thead on that subject or more specifically one called "Who is the Serpent". I know my remarks in it will lead to many questions that would derail this thread.

Paul

Paul, if youve read the guidelines on the board as you mentioned you would do...THEN PLEASE go ahead

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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Quote Taf; "Teaching \preaching per say is when WE INSIST to others ,WE are RIGHT and YOU are wrong."

Ooh, Taf, good one. . Thoughts/discussion, not insisting...Good definition...you just cut right to the chase...boy did we need you when we were trying to define this earlier! I could have written a whole page and not been so clear...a good word to all (note to self; James, keep this in mind) .

Hey Taf, did you see in the Economy thread about your new job and what all you're now going to be blamed for? You're welcome :laughing7

Hey Taf, did you see in the Economy thread about your new job and what all you're now going to be blamed for? You're welcome :laughing7

Taffy like to stay away from work. That why he became a Christian

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Hey Taf, did you see in the Economy thread about your new job and what all you're now going to be blamed for? You're welcome :laughing7

Taffy like to stay away from work. That why he became a Christian

LOL...Taf will tap both our heads with a 9-iron if we don't watch out...I've just found out that guy was/is a fine golfer...well, he's from the right part of the world...the game began over there...I have a hilarious bit of historical info on golf (goffe) from like the 1600's I will post on the Humor thread.

For me, the purpose for bearing the burden of another, is so that the burden can be released rather than emphasized. That's where freedom manifests . . .at the altar of incense . . . I'll take up your burden, but don't expect me to carry it . . . I'll help release yours if you help me release mine . . .

I would love to go into that Zeek, but I been informed about lingering sensitivities on the forum by a moderator about teaching and my thoughts on that are very radical as compared to the mainstream and I might risk being banned from this forum. But if you want to contact me privately outside of the forum via email, I would be more than happy to tell you about my thoughts on that.

Paul

I'm also interested in that, too Paul.

I would also like to hear your thoughts from a post above as to why it would say in Romans 1:20 that we are without excuse, While Jesus said we know not what we do. I'm not challenging that position, just having trouble wrapping my head around it; maybe your explanation will help me see it clearly...

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God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.

I think your both right, Pierac and Nathan.....in the Spirit He sometimes sends the burden to you, so that truly we bear the burdens of the weak, and travail for that thing to be gone or resolved, birthing out of the Spirit, new life in the person/situation. Blessings....

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

trettep

I would also like to hear your thoughts from a post above as to why it would say in Romans 1:20 that we are without excuse, While Jesus said we know not what we do. I'm not challenging that position, just having trouble wrapping my head around it; maybe your explanation will help me see it clearly...

I'm sorry Doc, but I'm not going to be starting any new threads. I'm going to comment more to existing threads instead of starting new ones at least for now.

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

Paul

so what does it mean by that Adam wasnt' deceived??

Adam knew the serpent was lying. He knew they would die if they ate from the tree. He knew what God had commanded him.

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

Paul

so what does it mean by that Adam wasnt' deceived??

Adam knew the serpent was lying. He knew they would die if they ate from the tree. He knew what God had commanded him.

You might even say he knew the father, and chose to turn away, fall from grace. Willful sin.

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

Paul

so what does it mean by that Adam wasnt' deceived??

Adam knew the serpent was lying. He knew they would die if they ate from the tree. He knew what God had commanded him.

You might even say he knew the father, and chose to turn away, fall from grace. Willful sin.

??

Only if you think he was acting outside of the will of the Father.

20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope...

I believe they were both ignorant as well. How could they know Good and Evil until they took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So they were both ignorant of their crime. This again is why I believe that God is responsible for our sins be we are accountable for them.

Paul

so what does it mean by that Adam wasnt' deceived??

Adam knew the serpent was lying. He knew they would die if they ate from the tree. He knew what God had commanded him.

You might even say he knew the father, and chose to turn away, fall from grace. Willful sin.

??

Only if you think he was acting outside of the will of the Father.

20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope...

--Rom 8

but when did he subject them to vanity??

was it before or after he sinned??

I think these verses hint at this

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God (i'm thinking Adam knew God), they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

It seems like, a willful turning away, so then, they were turned over to a reprobate mind.