but what is with this sudden obsession people have with wanting to deport foreigners, legally in this country for expressing their views? Would it
suddenly make everyone feel better if he had to wake up at an odd hour to broadcast his piece live at the same time slot? We're not under an iron
curtain (though obviously many are clamoring for us to be) - it doesn't matter where he is located, we have satellites

Well, you are quite right that our freedom of speech does differentiate us say...from the former German empire, or Mussolini's Italy, or perhaps some
Marxist guerilla dictatorship in South American or Africa. Also, Prez Wilson did introduce the Sedition Act.

Most Americans just don't think that condemning the Constitution is cool, that is unless you are far left leaning...

Although, I'm conservative (duh), I do have to say that the country wasn't always too keen to completely leave the 1st amendment alone, think about
the communist scare directly after ww2, freedom of speech was heavily tightened, maybe legitimately......but it's not like the 1st was always upheld
throughout history.

It's a well known fact that the red scare was a tool used by government agencies to take away the rights of it's own citizens. If I want to talk
smack about my own government, what's the problem? Should I be tossed out of the country because people don't like what I'm saying, even though I
have no plans to take radical/extremist action?

Although, I'm conservative (duh), I do have to say that the country wasn't always too keen to completely leave the 1st amendment alone, think about
the communist scare directly after ww2, freedom of speech was heavily tightened, maybe legitimately......but it's not like the 1st was always upheld
throughout history.

I hear what you are saying, truly. I don't think our Founding Fathers mixed up the concept of freedom of the press with the right to do or say
anything without consequences, as we know that even with our focus on liberties, we do not as a general rule have the right to murder people without
it being a matter of self defense. Even then we have to prove our lives were in danger.
Prez Wilson was bordering on fascism and was quite Progressive as Presidents go.
I myself am convinced that leftists and Communist agitators use our own freedoms against us to move their agendas forward, but I am certain they would
like to eliminate them altogether.
Communism is a system, at least as practiced in most countries it has been tried, which employs a method of forcing people to comply in a most violent
and brutal way, whereas socialism attempts to get people to agree with the positions more voluntarily, but still in a forced environment, as with
legislation such as EPA regulations against business to disrupt the free market.

Well to be honest, as much as I am anti-communist and heavily dislike the far left, it is a bit much to say that there is nowadays a bolshevist or
communist broad agenda playing out in the states. I think the lefties are pretty much the only problem in that area. Look at Europe, their own strand
of socialism plus a tad of centrist or conservative policies works just fine, Germany, France, they're all doing just fine. What people have to
understand is that socialism, especially in European form is veeeery far away from communism. But the states never worked and never will work in a
european style, that's american exceptionalism.

but what is with this sudden obsession people have with wanting to deport foreigners, legally in this country for expressing their views? Would it
suddenly make everyone feel better if he had to wake up at an odd hour to broadcast his piece live at the same time slot? We're not under an iron
curtain (though obviously many are clamoring for us to be) - it doesn't matter where he is located, we have satellites

Well, you are quite right that our freedom of speech does differentiate us say...from the former German empire, or Mussolini's Italy, or perhaps some
Marxist guerilla dictatorship in South American or Africa. Also, Prez Wilson did introduce the Sedition Act.

Most Americans just don't think that condemning the Constitution is cool, that is unless you are far left leaning...

Although, I'm conservative (duh), I do have to say that the country wasn't always too keen to completely leave the 1st amendment alone, think about
the communist scare directly after ww2, freedom of speech was heavily tightened, maybe legitimately......but it's not like the 1st was always upheld
throughout history.

It's a well known fact that the red scare was a tool used by government agencies to take away the rights of it's own citizens. If I want to talk
smack about my own government, what's the problem? Should I be tossed out of the country because people don't like what I'm saying, even though I
have no plans to take radical/extremist action?

I don't agree. I wouldn't say the post ww2 administration for the next 20 years did consciously want to take away rights. there was legitimate fear
of the communist, or to be fair to the lefties, stalinist communist ideology sweeping into the states. Even pre ww2! killings, agitations,
assassinations, it all happened, in the name of communism and a bolshevist style revolt. the government at the time only reacted to it, granted, in a
pretty harsh way, but think about what COULD have happened if they weren't tight on the reds.

Originally posted by SpearMint
Think for yourself, the constitution is redundant and outdated.

No it is not, the founding fathers had the fore sight to put in the second amendment to oppose govt tyranny, THATS what the 2nd amendment is about.
They wrote it becasue they knew that all govts get more elitist throughout the ages, they knew that all govts eventually turn on the governed. If
anything the constituition is more relevant than ever before.

Something i just thought of, if SHTF do you think PM will stay in this coutry that he supposedly loves? No, he will be among the first to run off.
Probably saying "i knew the govt would turn tyranical" or some other BS. This is NOT his country, he is not an american citizen. That being said, he
does have a right to his opinion, everyone on this planet has a right to their opinion. But when you are in a foreign country, expousing beliefs that
are contrary to what that country was built on, you should be alot more conientientious (spelling?) of what you are saying. You should not call some
one an "unbelievably stupid man" in THEIR country for stating their beleif in thier governing document.

Originally posted by itbenickp
Something i just thought of, if SHTF do you think PM will stay in this coutry that he supposedly loves? No, he will be among the first to run off.
Probably saying "i knew the govt would turn tyranical" or some other BS. This is NOT his country, he is not an american citizen. That be said, he
does have a right to his opinion, everyone on this planet has a right to their opinion. But when you are in a foreign country, exposing beliefs that
are contrary to what that country was built on, you should be alot more conientientious (spelling?) of what you are saying. You should not call some
one an "unbelievably stupid man" in THEIR country for stating their beleif in thier governing document.

Originally posted by itbenickp
Something i just thought of, if SHTF do you think PM will stay in this coutry that he supposedly loves? No, he will be among the first to run off.
Probably saying "i knew the govt would turn tyranical" or some other BS. This is NOT his country, he is not an american citizen. That be said, he
does have a right to his opinion, everyone on this planet has a right to their opinion. But when you are in a foreign country, exposing beliefs that
are contrary to what that country was built on, you should be alot more conientientious (spelling?) of what you are saying. You should not call some
one an "unbelievably stupid man" in THEIR country for stating their beleif in thier governing document.

Originally posted by itbenickp
Something i just thought of, if SHTF do you think PM will stay in this coutry that he supposedly loves? No, he will be among the first to run off.
Probably saying "i knew the govt would turn tyranical" or some other BS. This is NOT his country, he is not an american citizen. That be said, he
does have a right to his opinion, everyone on this planet has a right to their opinion. But when you are in a foreign country, exposing beliefs that
are contrary to what that country was built on, you should be alot more conientientious (spelling?) of what you are saying. You should not call some
one an "unbelievably stupid man" in THEIR country for stating their beleif in thier governing document.

Originally posted by itbenickp
Something i just thought of, if SHTF do you think PM will stay in this coutry that he supposedly loves? No, he will be among the first to run off.
Probably saying "i knew the govt would turn tyranical" or some other BS. This is NOT his country, he is not an american citizen. That be said, he
does have a right to his opinion, everyone on this planet has a right to their opinion. But when you are in a foreign country, exposing beliefs that
are contrary to what that country was built on, you should be alot more conientientious (spelling?) of what you are saying. You should not call some
one an "unbelievably stupid man" in THEIR country for stating their beleif in thier governing document.

Although, I'm conservative (duh), I do have to say that the country wasn't always too keen to completely leave the 1st amendment alone, think about
the communist scare directly after ww2, freedom of speech was heavily tightened, maybe legitimately......but it's not like the 1st was always upheld
throughout history.

I hear what you are saying, truly. I don't think our Founding Fathers mixed up the concept of freedom of the press with the right to do or say
anything without consequences, as we know that even with our focus on liberties, we do not as a general rule have the right to murder people without
it being a matter of self defense. Even then we have to prove our lives were in danger.

No you dont. As your George Zimmerman case clearly shows, if you aren't black, you just have to be able to convince your arresting officers and those
at the station that you really really were in fear of your life and have a few accompanying cuts and dinks, then you can walk out of the cop
shop within 6 hrs.

Actually, my good sir, the AR is meant to stand for Armalite, which is the company who created the AR 15. It seems like people are hard wired to think
AR stands for assault rifle 15. I dont believe it even falls into that category, which requires it to have the "select fire" capability, which most
civilians with AR's, dont have.

It's a well known fact that the red scare was a tool used by government agencies to take away the rights of it's own citizens. If I want to talk smack
about my own government, what's the problem? Should I be tossed out of the country because people don't like what I'm saying, even though I have no
plans to take radical/extremist action?

It does not make Communist subversion techniques any less real or dangerous. It is fundamentally opposed to our Founding principles. It's just that
the same people who were providing the solutions were also providing the problems.
Immigrants applying for US Citizenship still have to sign an oath saying they have not been a member of a Communist organization for 5 years prior to
application.

Strange how the Left here doesn't view avowed Communists in the administration as a potential danger when foreigners applying for citizenship have to
declare by oath they are not Communist affiliated.

I don't agree. I wouldn't say the post ww2 administration for the next 20 years did consciously want to take away rights. there was legitimate fear
of the communist, or to be fair to the lefties, stalinist communist ideology sweeping into the states. Even pre ww2! killings, agitations,
assassinations, it all happened, in the name of communism and a bolshevist style revolt. the government at the time only reacted to it, granted, in a
pretty harsh way, but think about what COULD have happened if they weren't tight on the reds.

I would be interested to read more about this, sources are quite sparse over here on that subject as we never experienced it due, most likely, to
Labour being voted into power as soon as the war ended.

Maybe as a result of that it has been my opinion ever since that the Red Menace scare was engnineered as a way in which the US Government could
exercise a degree of control and direction over the population, having seen how the people united as one under the govt in order to defeat the
Japanese and German threat, the conclusion being that nothing keeps the citizens in line like a common bogeyman, I noted the rise of the Chinese and
the Muslim menace following the fall of the Soviet Union which is prevalent to this day and this seemed to reinforce my thoughts that the American
Government needs the people to be scared of somebody.

If you can point to contradictory sources I would be fascinated to read them, thank you

No you dont. As your George Zimmerman case clearly shows, if you aren't black, you just have to be able to convince your arresting officers and those
at the station that you really really were in fear of your life and have a few accompanying cuts and dinks, then you can walk out of the cop shop
within 6 hrs.

Really? Are you going to play the race card here, in an off topic way to declare I don't know what I am talking about? Now you have asserted that
Zimmerman did not genuinely act out of self defense. We may never know the whole story but he was in a position to have to PROVE it was self defense.
It was only the press which made it a racist situation. By the way, the Communist Party organized a "hoodie march". I wonder what your true
affiliations are to be making this point here today.

It is lawyers who have corrupted the justice system in my opinion. That should be evidence that even the best system can be corrupted. Lawyers use
their knowledge of the system to get around justice to win cases. I think there is no truly fool proof way to stop corruption entirely.

May I used your own example to prove the point that no gun control laws are going to completely eliminate violence because the criminals will always
find a way to get guns through the black market.

After reading the Wiki about Piers Morgan, I realize that I dont like him either. He has made a pack of enemies.

He was punched in the face 3 times at a British Press Awards event. He openly has ongoing hostile fights with people that rub him the wrong way.
Intercepting private calls (he was fired for that) having people followed, to get any kind of dirt on a person. He does this for months. His rage is
then played out in the media. In ruining people, or revealing things about their personal life. Go read the wiki, he is really a skunk. They have a
huge list of his feuds.

I think we should all ignore him. If we stop giving him an audiance, CNN will surely move on. He is becoming the Jerry Springer of the nightly news.

America has enough hostility and personally I dont respect CNN for hiring a person who openly jokes about his illegal activitys "just to get a
story". I really question this guys ethics and CNNs judgement in hiring this guy.

So, go crawl back under the rock you crawled out from, mister Morgan You stink!!!

My question is what would have happened to this clown PM, a foreigner, 20 or 30 years ago if he had tossed the constitution down in a demeaning way,
as he did in this interview, and what would have happened to the " news outlet" that not only gave him the ability to do so, but did nothing to force
an apology from said clown?

It's not these fools that are to blame, it's the people that do nothing to express their outrage at such actions that allow it to continue.

In a real America, the phones at CNN would have not stopped ringing until this clown was fired.

Remember this crap will continue to happen until the people demand it stops.

Originally posted by SpearMint
Well his belittling of the constitution is quite justified. It's outdated and treated like no one would be free without it. It could be destroyed
today and there would be no difference, if anything it's a hindrance because it blinds people from reality while they protect their "freedom".

If you have a problem with this country and the documents that created it, don't let the door hit you in the azz while leaving it! You are a traitor
to this nation if you believe what you say to be true!

edit on 12-1-2013 by ajay59 because: (no reason given)

Lucky I don't live in the US then isn't it? If I did though it wouldn't make a me a traitor, what I said is true.

The Above Top Secret Web site is a wholly owned social content community of The Above Network, LLC.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.