And please don't say Bass or CornWash LMAO. We have NOTHING. NOTHING!!!

I am well aware of all the negatives involved in the current Peppers contract situation and I sympathize with the idea of not overpaying an aging former star. I got it. We all know that. Just saying you need a replacement in hand before you burn any bridges. If Emery can sign a quality starting LDE (a REAL DE, not a depth guy) in two weeks then I'm sure Peppers will be cut in a New York minute. Until then, he's not going anywhere.

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I agree 100% MP. I'm not denying any of that. Our defense is a total train wreck and Pep is part of it. There isn't an easy answer here. It would make me sick though, to waste millions and millions of dollars on a player who:

1. Can't play well anymore and,
2. Seems to take entire games off.

I'd rather go a different route, but that's just my disgust over having $18 to $20 million dollars in cap space going to a guy who isn't worth a fraction of that money. Maybe we end up having to pay him anyway....we do kindof have a gun to our head with too many holes to fill. Of course that just makes me even MORE angry with our situation.

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Hall of Famer

I agree 100% MP. I'm not denying any of that. Our defense is a total train wreck and Pep is part of it. There isn't an easy answer here. It would make me sick though, to waste millions and millions of dollars on a player who:

1. Can't play well anymore and,
2. Seems to take entire games off.

I'd rather go a different route, but that's just my disgust over having $18 to $20 million dollars in cap space going to a guy who isn't worth a fraction of that money.

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I'd rather go a different route too. I'd like to magically trade Peppers and his residual huge cap hit to Houston for JJ Watt straight up. That will happen when pigs fly.

Emery has to find an RDE replacement first and its not coming from the draft at #14 IMO. Hardy was franchised by Carolina. Bennett may not leave Seattle. Maybe Lamar Houston is an option. We will see soon. But it would be freakin' dumb to cut Pep cuz we're disappointed in him from last year until we have a succession plan in place.

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Assistant Head Coach

SuperFanDBS Writer

I'd rather go a different route too. I'd like to magically trade Peppers and his residual huge cap hit to Houston for JJ Watt straight up. That will happen when pigs fly.

Emery has to find an RDE replacement first and its not coming from the draft at #14 IMO. Hardy was franchised by Carolina. Bennett may not leave Seattle. Maybe Lamar Houston is an option. We will see soon. But it would be freakin' dumb to cut Pep cuz we're disappointed in him from last year until we have a succession plan in place.

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I understand, and again, don't disagree. I'm not saying cut Pep because we're disappointed in him. Not at all. In the end (and I realize you know this) it's all about making the money work for you to build the best possible team within cap limitations. Taking an $18 million dollar cap hit this year, and $20 million dollars next year, for Peppers.......man, I'd stroke out. That's a chunk of cash. Some folks here didn't like paying that kind of money to Cutler, but at least he can still help the team. I'm not sure Pep can anymore. I'm just not seeing it.

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Hall of Famer

No way Pep is staying at his current cap hit. He would need to accept a substantial pay cut to possibly stay. I don't think Emery is going to even open that can of worms until he sees how FA plays out first. The $18-20m cap numbers are purely temporary. They'll either be renegotiated or made meaningless by Peppers' release.

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Pro-Bowler

I am not pushing to keep Peppers at his current salary. I am merely presenting the case we may be better off if we can tear up the contract (extend) and negotiate a deal in the $5m to $6m a yr range as I stated earlier. We get a cap savings between 8 to 10 million and keep a starting DE, I agree he is on the downside but with other linemen that are NFL quality and not stopgaps like last yr. I think Peppers is still better than many opinions on this board. Its hard to be excited when the other team has a tackle, TE, RB, and a guard all taking turns blocking your every move because no one else on the line deserves there attention. After you get your butt whooped so many times you get tired so maybe he did lose interest and Emery will have to gauge the effort and fuel in the tank. I want a true DE who opponents worry about and I still believe Peppers is better than anyone we would replace him with, especially since Hardy got franchised. Is he worth the current contract_ HELL NO. We gave him a bonus and are on the books for $8MM no matter what we do with him. I just think it may be wiser to tear up the current deal and try to get a new contract in the 5 to 6 million range. Who else you going to get at DE to start that will make the impact Peppers can make. You can argue Bennett but he will cost you 8 to 10 million and another signing bonus. He has never had 10 sacks in a season by the way. 9.5 the best he has had, and is 27 yrs old. I do not see him as the answer. Keeping Peppers in a rotation and draft a DE he can tutor seems so obvious to me. The alternative is no DE pressure and we tried that before Peppers was acquired and we all know that worked out; We thought we had the worst DB's ever. Emery did not make this mess Angelo and his poor drafts did.

Emery did a nice job turning the offense around and maybe we could debate if he put to much into the offense and not enough into the defense but this is where we are at. I asked earlier what your plan is or whats the alternative and nobody seems to have one other than cut Peppers. Seems nobody likes the plan of renegotiating a reasonable deal and clearing up cap space. We need a plan because Wootton will be gone and most want to cut are remaining DE. WE NEED 2 STARTING DE's and if we cut Peppers where are they coming from? Will they do better than Peppers, and how much they going to cost. 6 million to Peppers sounds reasonable, Approx. what Bennett made last yr, and is an alternative better than No Sacks from the DE position. The Bonus money is gone already the dead money no matter what we do so it comes down to signing Peppers and another starting DE or signing 2 starting DE's.

Show me a a better alternative before you cut him, thats all I am asking for?

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Coordinator

SuperFanDBS Writer

What is his walk away money? What does he leave with, what do the Bears need to pay to make him go away? What is the bare minimum the Bears will have to pay to replace him with a serviceable replacement.

Somebody like Bennett probably around 8 million a yr. Which we could do with the savings and have a dual threat at each end. You wont find a DE for 5MM that is a threat, so I guess the question is why would Peppers take it. He wont if he does not believe his skills are on the decline and wants to stay with the Bears. Basically whatever we extend a contract to is what it will cost. The dead money does not change from previous prorated bonus. Maybe he will take a 2 yr deal, and we can get the bonus value (4.2 million over next 2 yrs) or if we cut him dead money value. He still has value, the question is how much?

From over the cap salary cap calculator. first is if we do nothing. I updated hayden and Garza so total cap room should be more accurate then reported in other places

Well done BSB. I was thinking around $5 mil since that's what Bennett got from Seattle as a rotational player at DT and DE but $ 6 mil wouldn't break that bank. I figured if they could get both Pep and Tillman with deals in the $4.5 to $5 mil range for two years but only guarantee this year that would secure two important spots, keeps some on field and locker room leadership in place, and give the Bears time to develop replacements for them.

I believe Peanut has two more good years left in him and if they can platoon Pep and cut his snaps back significantly I think he can give two more good years as well. He may do as much or more damage playing less and even he hinted at that this past year. We all saw how he turned it on in a couple of games and if he's playing less he can probably bring it more often. As a part time player he knows they can't pay him nearly $14 mil but the question is what will he accept.

I'm sure they've discussed some numbers with his agent so now it's all about Pep deciding what he wants to do. His agent is sniffing around to see what his market may be if he is released so the game goes on. One way or another they'll pick up a significant amount of cap space from whatever they do we just don't know yet whether it's $8-$9 mil or $14 mil. But I do think if he'll play for around $5 mil he's worth keeping as opposed to having to replace him.

That's gonna be even more true if they'd rather replace Wootton with a bigger LDE. Anyway this was a great graphic showing the choices that are out there. :13_4_9[1]:

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Hall of Famer

I am not pushing to keep Peppers at his current salary. I am merely presenting the case we may be better off if we can tear up the contract (extend) and negotiate a deal in the $5m to $6m a yr range as I stated earlier. We get a cap savings between 8 to 10 million and keep a starting DE, I agree he is on the downside but with other linemen that are NFL quality and not stopgaps like last yr. I think Peppers is still better than many opinions on this board. Its hard to be excited when the other team has a tackle, TE, RB, and a guard all taking turns blocking your every move because no one else on the line deserves there attention. After you get your butt whooped so many times you get tired so maybe he did lose interest and Emery will have to gauge the effort and fuel in the tank. I want a true DE who opponents worry about and I still believe Peppers is better than anyone we would replace him with, especially since Hardy got franchised. Is he worth the current contract_ HELL NO. We gave him a bonus and are on the books for $8MM no matter what we do with him. I just think it may be wiser to tear up the current deal and try to get a new contract in the 5 to 6 million range. Who else you going to get at DE to start that will make the impact Peppers can make. You can argue Bennett but he will cost you 8 to 10 million and another signing bonus. He has never had 10 sacks in a season by the way. 9.5 the best he has had, and is 27 yrs old. I do not see him as the answer. Keeping Peppers in a rotation and draft a DE he can tutor seems so obvious to me. The alternative is no DE pressure and we tried that before Peppers was acquired and we all know that worked out; We thought we had the worst DB's ever. Emery did not make this mess Angelo and his poor drafts did.

Emery did a nice job turning the offense around and maybe we could debate if he put to much into the offense and not enough into the defense but this is where we are at. I asked earlier what your plan is or whats the alternative and nobody seems to have one other than cut Peppers. Seems nobody likes the plan of renegotiating a reasonable deal and clearing up cap space. We need a plan because Wootton will be gone and most want to cut are remaining DE. WE NEED 2 STARTING DE's and if we cut Peppers where are they coming from? Will they do better than Peppers, and how much they going to cost. 6 million to Peppers sounds reasonable, Approx. what Bennett made last yr, and is an alternative better than No Sacks from the DE position. The Bonus money is gone already the dead money no matter what we do so it comes down to signing Peppers and another starting DE or signing 2 starting DE's.

Show me a a better alternative before you cut him, thats all I am asking for?

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I agree with what you're getting at, BSB. We need a viable succession plan in place before we cut Pep loose. His current contract is way too onerous a cap hit no doubt but....he's under contract. And no one else on the horizon is. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

Pep may refuse a renegotiation/pay cut in which case there's no choice but to release him. Emery can cross that bridge after FA gets going. If he hits on a FA DE the organization wants, then it becomes a moot point and JP is a goner. If not, then he better be thinking about how to retain Julius. I don't want to be heading into the draft with just CornWash and Bass on the roster.

I don't feel too sorry for Emery here because--my one quibble with your post--he put himself in this position by blowing the Shea pick when he could have had Chandler Jones. That was a huge mistake that has left the DE cupboard pretty bare.

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Coordinator

SuperFanDBS Writer

I am not pushing to keep Peppers at his current salary. I am merely presenting the case we may be better off if we can tear up the contract (extend) and negotiate a deal in the $5m to $6m a yr range as I stated earlier. We get a cap savings between 8 to 10 million and keep a starting DE, I agree he is on the downside but with other linemen that are NFL quality and not stopgaps like last yr. I think Peppers is still better than many opinions on this board. Its hard to be excited when the other team has a tackle, TE, RB, and a guard all taking turns blocking your every move because no one else on the line deserves there attention. After you get your butt whooped so many times you get tired so maybe he did lose interest and Emery will have to gauge the effort and fuel in the tank. I want a true DE who opponents worry about and I still believe Peppers is better than anyone we would replace him with, especially since Hardy got franchised. Is he worth the current contract_ HELL NO. We gave him a bonus and are on the books for $8MM no matter what we do with him. I just think it may be wiser to tear up the current deal and try to get a new contract in the 5 to 6 million range. Who else you going to get at DE to start that will make the impact Peppers can make. You can argue Bennett but he will cost you 8 to 10 million and another signing bonus. He has never had 10 sacks in a season by the way. 9.5 the best he has had, and is 27 yrs old. I do not see him as the answer. Keeping Peppers in a rotation and draft a DE he can tutor seems so obvious to me. The alternative is no DE pressure and we tried that before Peppers was acquired and we all know that worked out; We thought we had the worst DB's ever. Emery did not make this mess Angelo and his poor drafts did.

Emery did a nice job turning the offense around and maybe we could debate if he put to much into the offense and not enough into the defense but this is where we are at. I asked earlier what your plan is or whats the alternative and nobody seems to have one other than cut Peppers. Seems nobody likes the plan of renegotiating a reasonable deal and clearing up cap space. We need a plan because Wootton will be gone and most want to cut are remaining DE. WE NEED 2 STARTING DE's and if we cut Peppers where are they coming from? Will they do better than Peppers, and how much they going to cost. 6 million to Peppers sounds reasonable, Approx. what Bennett made last yr, and is an alternative better than No Sacks from the DE position. The Bonus money is gone already the dead money no matter what we do so it comes down to signing Peppers and another starting DE or signing 2 starting DE's.

Show me a a better alternative before you cut him, thats all I am asking for?[/quote]

I'll chime in on this as well and say there really isn't a better alternative that I can see provided they can hack that cap number down to something that doesn't handicap the team signing others. There really isn't another RDE in the draft other than Clowney who even comes close. If Pep leaves we may have RDE by committee using Wootton and Bass or depending on the outcome of FA if they can keep him they may even try Melton at RDE. That's where he started before he gained over 30lbs and moved inside. Trestman says he's lost some weight so maybe he's getting down to more of a DE size to make himself more versatile. At 275-280lbs give or take he's now a DE.

I'd love to say there is a good alternative but here's the list of FA DEs as of today and there's not one guy on there I'd take over Pep. I just hope they can work something out with him because he's a great player to have around but not for $14 mil.

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Coordinator

SuperFanDBS Writer

first of all, we (i) miss u man, i know its offseason and everything but nevertheless... i would say, in what s likely to happen: 2, 1, 3

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Thanks brother. I just needed a break to clear myself of all that went wrong last year and "get over it". Now I can focus on ideas that are a fix rather than repairing what couldn't be repaired. I'm still not a big Phil Emery fan but if he can do with the defense what he did with the offense last year that will go a very long way towards me believing in him again. Sometimes I think he's just as stubborn beyond belief as Lovie was and that's never a good thing in the long run.

He seems to finally be willing to admit his mistakes and that's the first step to learning from them. So he gets another chance but in my world it's HIM whose on a "one year prove it" deal. After deciding to keep Tucker around after that debacle last year if that defense doesn't improve by leaps and bounds they oughta tie him to the Metra tracks at rush hour. Seattle proved once again that defense wins championships and if that's the business he's in then he needs to find one in a big hurry.

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Assistant Head Coach

SuperFanDBS Writer

I'm still not a big Phil Emery fan but if he can do with the defense what he did with the offense last year that will go a very long way towards me believing in him again.

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This is what I'm watching too. By the way, welcome back - I missed your posts a lot too. It's really too quiet here in the off season (and it seems to last forever). But, regarding Phil, I too am watching to see if he knows defense players, like he did on offense. I'm just observing and keeping an open mind here. I remind myself that there was a time when I believed Jerry Angelo was brilliant (seriously). I just wanted to "believe" we had a great GM. But over time I realized he was bringing in too many mediocre players. Now, I'm wanting to believe in Emery. But I'm going to withhold my opinion until I see a few years of his work, and part of that is seeing if he can rebuild the defense.

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