Branching off from the "Favourite Sports" thread, a good number (well 2 or 3 ) of us enjoy mma and rather than take over that thread I thought we'd better get one of our own. Thought I'd throw out a couple of topics to discuss and see what sticks... feel free to post on all or any.

What does everyone think of "Greasegate"? (GSP supposed deliberate use of vaseline in his bout with BJ Penn?)

Did anyone catch the 1st round of the Sengoku FW tournament? Any early favourites?

Now that Strikeforce have EliteXC's assets (including the Showtime and possibly CBS spots) will they do any better than the ill-fated first attempt?

What does everyone think of "Greasegate"? (GSP supposed deliberate use of vaseline in his bout with BJ Penn?)

I only know the rought outlines of the story, but it's hard not to get the impression that this squabble has gone on far too long. It's not like GSP got oiled up like a Hellenic wrestler, for cryin' out loud! How much can a few smears of residue on the chest of a guy who's already pretty sweaty do?

I tend to agree... GSP got towelled extensively after the comission noticed, so it would have only really been an issue for the first two rounds... after that GSP continued to pass guard with ease.

On the other hand, if you believe BJ Penn's side of the story than several fighters told him before the bout about GSP being very slippy (Hughes and Sherk) and mayhem re-posted his blog about his fight with GSP (although he's doesn't name him in the article) where he accuses him of greasing, which pre-dated the Penn fight by years.

The worst thing would be if it leads to a third match... leaving Alves and Florian in limbo with their title bouts.

Although hopefully it leads to clearer rules on what's allowed. The strangest thing to come out of it is that while certain athletic commissions can turn a fight from a W to an NC for smoking weed or doing coke, if it's proven after the fact that you were greasing, they can't change who won. Which is probably the first ever example of Japanese mma (as a whole... Shooto have always been top notch) having stricter and more logical regulation...

As for Strikeforce - if EliteXC couldn't make any headway on one of the big three networks, even with Gina Carano (Gina freakin' Carano!), one begins to wonder whether any promotion, for lack of a better word, is going to have much luck on not-cable.

EliteXC fell apart for a number of reasons. One of the main ones was when they bought several of the lower level orgs (including their debt) which came to millions of dollars. Further, they opened the cheque-books for the Orgs to bring in top fighters. Now as a fan I was far from upset that Cage Rage got to bring Vitor, Ninja, Sperry, Imanari, Shaolin and Fickett, but they don't come cheap... and attendance didn't really go up. Likewise EliteXC apparently spent over $3m on their website and 10's of millions on a lavish headquaters and apparently had a very bloated organisation. They wasted a whole lot of money, and were nearly entirely dependant on getting good ratings for their CBS shows. This in turn came down to Kimbo... the difference in the ratings between the shows he fought in and those he didn't was huge. Having him lose, then the controversy over possible match fixing and EliteXC's creditors suddenly weren't so happy and recalled their debt.

Scott Coker and Strikeforce have been the picture of responsibility, a direct contrast. They have never come out with the big "We're going to crush the UFC" comments others have, because they're smart enough to realise they couldn't. They became a regional power, main based around San Jose, concentrating on building local ticket attractions and putting on interesting bouts. Everything they've done so far has been responsible and nearly risk free. I don't expect them to suddenly jump out there, but I expect them to slowly and surely build themselves as a real consistant alternative to the UFC in the US.

A lot of people also forget the good EliteXC did... notably the ShoXC: Elite Challenger series which had some of the best match-making of any org I've seen and gave great exposure to unknown fighters.

Thats actually the last Sengoku show, but totally agreed... Gardner didn't exactly cover himself with glory right there. A lot of fighters d get away with a lot of clowning, but when you've got Aoki on your back it almost certainly isn't the best move... led to a new catchphrase as well...

Yeah, it was pretty incredible... and entirely in keeping with the way the card went. I was almost watching it out of duty as opposed to really looking forward to it, but as the card went on it just got better and better. Upsets, wars, german suplexes, great subs, backflip double stomps/knees. Just an awesome night of fights.

You'll find that a lot in Japanese mma... the whole "I'd rather die than submit" thing and a bushido fighting spirit... it's why they always match up undersized Japanese fighters with monsterous foreigners. I mean, Saku made his name post-Gracie by fighting (and sometimes beating) fighters much bigger than him. Then look at W. Silva's PRIDE run, and nearly the whole careers of Otsuka, Oyama, Kanehara, Yamamoto, Shoji and matsui.

For an example of a refusal to give in to a nearly suicidal level watch this fight: Igor Vovchancyn vs Enson Inoue (who embodied the death before surrender thing about as far as humanly possible)

It's why I try to avoid bitching about an early stoppage too much... even when he was mounted and getting poinded on Enson was defending himself (slightly) and the ref let it go on... the guy pretty much suffered brain damage (IIRC) from that fight.

Fighting hurts... too often people forget that. I'd much rather have a thousand fights a punch too early then one end that punch too late. We've had our first fatality in sanctioned MMA... we don't want another.

To be fair, it's probably better than the Condom Depot patch that most fighters seems to have there.

I think that fight (and Silva) are getting an overly bad rep. Yeah, it wasn't Cyborg/manhoef 2, but it was the fight you'd expect when a nervous BJJ guy and a counter striker line up. Silva's at his best when he's got an opponent coming at him and Leites has a dangerous enough BJJ game that it would be stupid of Silva to push the issue when he's clearly winning the bout.

Disappointed in Prof X... really thought he stood a good chance of ending Kang's run as a top 185lbs fighter. The guy just can't win his big bouts... first Ninja now Kang. Happy to see Shogun back to something resembling his earlier form, although he's still not as quick or precise as he was in his heyday.

Shields is a really good fighter... pretty underated really because of his lack of exposure in the US. I've been a fan for a long time, first watching him in Shooto in his bouts with Kikuchi and then the relatively well known ROTR/ICON 175lbs tournament before his recent run with Elite/Strikeforce. His style has changed recently, becoming much more aggressive; he went from a guy who was infamous for always going to decision to a man who has finished his last 8 opponents... many of which were top guys.