Machida does the following:learns shotokan from his father since age four, along with the kata in the curriculum;receives his blackbelt at 13yrs old;competes and does well at pointfighting tournaments;spars regularly at his karate school like he should;trains in sumo,MT,BJJ,mma,etc;goes undefeated 13 times,8 by decision and credits his karate training.

Couldn't it be assumed that he says these things to bring credit or even honor to his father and their way of training? Wouldn't it be better to credit that than to say it's his mma training? I think so and that's probably the case.

Looking through the video's can you see bunkai applications being applied in his mma fights? Let me guess, elbows, knees,etc.. Show me.

Karate is good! Properly trained kata is good!

Trying to apply ONLY your kata and karate training in an mma environment would be....like the early ufc's!!

Sure,some of the things he does could be accredited to his karate/kata training. Most of it is the same as other mma stars.

Now, when some mma guy ko's him, I don't want to hear it.

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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

If you watch his point fighting tournaments and the Tito Ortiz match you will see similarities. The way Machida is elusive and goes in for a quick attack and back out. Just a small portion of karate though, he's doing mma a majority of the time, he wins with his mma tactics. Remember 8 of 13 have went to judges decision.

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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

Quote:Then you would not be looking at the information available from the majority of successful MMA fighters.As far as I know, only 1 person in the UFC uses anything that appears similar to karate to any great effect 1 person in the history of the UFC. Correct me if I am wrong.

Wrong. Chuck Liddell's techniques come from a katacentric system similar to many okinawan karate styles. Its just that after Hack learned the system and how to fight with it he eliminated the kata and called it Hawaiian Kempo. I have seen the similarities first hand since I used to train with a Hawaiian 8th Dan trained by William Chow. I used to help him prepare his one student for his BB.

Quote:Couldn't it be assumed that he says these things to bring credit or even honor to his father and their way of training? Wouldn't it be better to credit that than to say it's his mma training? I think so and that's probably the case.

Wrong Brian. Obviously he is doing so as a deception so that he can sell karate training DVDs and books. That's how it works. See Ed, I'm learning.

Machida is a great fighter with a lot of experience... first in Karate, then in BJJ and now MMA. To attribute his success to his early training in Karate might be a little off mark but I can understand how Karate purists like to see their art being represented (even if mostly only in name) in MMA. He had to learn striking somewhere and it seems like he learned it pretty well. Good for him.

Shonie Carter did well also and put the Spinning Back Fist on the MMA map against Serra. I know a lot of traditional MA people who went thru the roof when that happened.

Fletch, its not just his early training. Machida was competing and training in karate while he was also an MMA fighter. In fact, I believe one of the most recent karate tournaments he competed in was in 2005. I think it is important to understand that not everyone trains in a different art to learn that art. Some do to learn how to use what they already know to fight against it. I'm not saying that Machida only uses karate, but to dismiss his use of it because what he does is different from what you know as karate is naive.

Quote:So then why practice kata at all if not to improve fighting ability?

I've been asking THAT question for years.

Two things; 1) We don't know if he practices kata. 2) If he does, imagine how good he'd have been if he hadn't.

-John

It isn't in the least bit proven he would be better without kata. Has kata made him the great fighter he is? Probably not though the mechanics of Karate techniques have probably helped. The fact is your statement implies that he would be much better without having spent time on kata which is pure speculation. To say what you said is an untested theory not a fact. Probably true though, I've lost much faith in Kata although it's fun sometimes and doesn't really hurt imo.

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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,