have you noticed though, that people say other people know nothing, without knowing everything or what that person does or doesnt know? just in general.

for example ive got chinese in laws (well after the wedding), and a chinese Doc who left china only a few years ago(doc) or whose parents left china (in laws, to singapore) for reasons directly to do with the chinese government and how it was to live in china. people dont know that to look at me though.

so for that reason, you cant look at a campaigner and know how that person really feels about what they are campaigning about. Also, REAL campaigners know that if you have a march all the nutters will come out and try to hijack the march for 'fun' and to cause trouble. notice how many people DIDNT try to put out the olympic torch? Also, did you notice in London that it wasnt just the westerners protesting? That there was a significant number of asian people there also, and that one of the people who tried to put the torch out was a monk?

it wasnt just the west who protested either. nor were all the protests about tibet.protests happened in korea also, which was apparently due to Chinas treatment of defected North Koreans. Steven Spielberg pulled out of his role within the Olympic Advisory committee to China because of Chinas (the governments) involvement with dafur. other people (like me) have issue with the selling of arms to mugabe.
so it wasnt communism itself being attacked and certainly not the chinese people. it was specific incidents, involvements etc of the chinese government.

most of the seasoned campaigners usually know more about the situation than you think.
for example, amnesty international among other groups often tend to work on individual cases of human rights violations, where it isnt just random groups of oppressed people and a lot of hear say, but particular individuals that they can gather information about:where they are, what they have apparently done, who their personal contacts are family, friends, lawyers etc. Of course they campaign on a larger scale, but this is needed to raise awareness and also for fundraising purposes.

can you imagine what would be happening in zimbabwe right now if it wasnt in the public eye and being talked about? it actually pisses me off that our troops were sent into afghanistan and iraq but nothing is being done with regards to mugabe. in my opinion most governments are seriously out of whack and have distorted moral priorities. and in the uk most campaigners will happily start on their own government also, not just china's!

also not everyone in the west is a capitalist, we have a socialist democratic government in the uk after all. the party came about as a reaction to capitalism and recognizing the inherant flaws in practising communism, as a way of redressing the injustices caused by the capitalist system, to create a fairer system.
(and we still would have labour after the next election if they hadnt messed up so badly, the knobs!!)

i guess my point in my earlier long post is that, hey, you cant chuck all british people into a group and make assumptions like that. we arent responsible for what our country has done in the past, just as chinese people arent responsible for anything bad their government does. there is no reason to slam westerners because people protest. its freedom of speech and the same reason you can say what you think about the situation too.

also, isnt it a good thing, after everything, that people CARE about what happens to people they dont even know. that they dont just look to their own friends and family and think 'screw everyone else'. its sad that noone can believe that there are genuine people out there. fine, there are people who jump on the bandwagon, but dont look at the marches, look at the organizations and people who do this every day. and there isnt any anti-china propoganda from them, they have issues with the government, but nothing but respect for the chinese people and country and culture.

have you noticed though, that people say other people know nothing, without knowing everything or what that person does or doesnt know? just in general.

for example ive got chinese in laws (well after the wedding), and a chinese Doc who left china only a few years ago(doc) or whose parents left china (in laws, to singapore) for reasons directly to do with the chinese government and how it was to live in china. people dont know that to look at me though.

so for that reason, you cant look at a campaigner and know how that person really feels about what they are campaigning about. Also, REAL campaigners know that if you have a march all the nutters will come out and try to hijack the march for 'fun' and to cause trouble. notice how many people DIDNT try to put out the olympic torch? Also, did you notice in London that it wasnt just the westerners protesting? That there was a significant number of asian people there also, and that one of the people who tried to put the torch out was a monk?

it wasnt just the west who protested either. nor were all the protests about tibet.protests happened in korea also, which was apparently due to Chinas treatment of defected North Koreans. Steven Spielberg pulled out of his role within the Olympic Advisory committee to China because of Chinas (the governments) involvement with dafur. other people (like me) have issue with the selling of arms to mugabe.
so it wasnt communism itself being attacked and certainly not the chinese people. it was specific incidents, involvements etc of the chinese government.

most of the seasoned campaigners usually know more about the situation than you think.
for example, amnesty international among other groups often tend to work on individual cases of human rights violations, where it isnt just random groups of oppressed people and a lot of hear say, but particular individuals that they can gather information about:where they are, what they have apparently done, who their personal contacts are family, friends, lawyers etc. Of course they campaign on a larger scale, but this is needed to raise awareness and also for fundraising purposes.

can you imagine what would be happening in zimbabwe right now if it wasnt in the public eye and being talked about? it actually pisses me off that our troops were sent into afghanistan and iraq but nothing is being done with regards to mugabe. in my opinion most governments are seriously out of whack and have distorted moral priorities. and in the uk most campaigners will happily start on their own government also, not just china's!

also not everyone in the west is a capitalist, we have a socialist democratic government in the uk after all. the party came about as a reaction to capitalism and recognizing the inherant flaws in practising communism, as a way of redressing the injustices caused by the capitalist system, to create a fairer system.
(and we still would have labour after the next election if they hadnt messed up so badly, the knobs!!)

i guess my point in my earlier long post is that, hey, you cant chuck all british people into a group and make assumptions like that. we arent responsible for what our country has done in the past, just as chinese people arent responsible for anything bad their government does. there is no reason to slam westerners because people protest. its freedom of speech and the same reason you can say what you think about the situation too.

also, isnt it a good thing, after everything, that people CARE about what happens to people they dont even know. that they dont just look to their own friends and family and think 'screw everyone else'. its sad that noone can believe that there are genuine people out there. fine, there are people who jump on the bandwagon, but dont look at the marches, look at the organizations and people who do this every day. and there isnt any anti-china propoganda from them, they have issues with the government, but nothing but respect for the chinese people and country and culture.

EDIT: blimey that was longer than intended!

well to be honest with you i didn't bother understanding all the points that you mentioned.

but can you honestly say that protesters have fully analysed the situation? i.e. hear more than one part of the argument and understand all the factors considered with the situation, and do their own research instead of replying on media sources? who's information may not always be correct? have they even visited Tibet?

anyways i can't be bothered to reply to the other ones...not that i don't any any other points to make but i'm not here to cause any controversies or anything.

and yeh, i'm not too fond of the chinese government, its just when people refer to china i tend to see them labelling the whole nation as bad as their government.

err guys...
this topic is getting veery dangerous considering the censorship in china nowadays.
which is really kiling
because i have SO much to say about china. (i live in hong kong btw).

but i would say this. everything that is happening in china nowadays - the poverty, the terrible human rights is NOT the chinese people's fault. it's our government.. and although most mainland chinese people have bad manners, don't blame them. blame the people who deprived them of their education.
chinese people DO have decency. or rather... chinese people DID have decency.

it sickens me sometimes hearing the US and Britain talk about 'human rights' in china, and all these crazy people doing things to stop the beijing olympics:
1) if you're so against the olympics held in beijing, why was nothing said before the dai lai lama came out to cause all this raucus? i didn't hear anything complain a while back when it was first announced. and don't lie by saying no one knew about the human rights issue in china. don't lie about not knowing about tibet. everyone knew. so if no one complained then when something COULD be done to change the decision, if no one protested then when it was first decided, DON'T PROTEST NOW!. geez. i know it's so 'cool' to seem like you're so liberal and into human rights but THINK. don't just join every single human rights campaign or 'lets all fight against evil government etc' group cos it makes you sound good.
2) the BRITISH people weren't exactly all 'human rights' before. the reason why south east asia is so poor and deprived now? western countries invaded us before (if people can still remember), and treated asians like slaves. they took over us and used us for their own economic interests. China was torn apart by foreign dominance. i don't know what that is called, but it SOUNDS like it wasn't exactly a UN agreed thing.
3) tibet WAS part of china. it was ever since the SUNG dynasty. okay we know that the china invaded tibet at the time, but EVER since then it was part of us. okay? that's the same as australia being an independent country before england decided to use it as its own little prison. and now? sure australia is a separate country, but its made up of english people. the indigenous? forgotten and segregated.

1.Why you bitching about Britain? We only had an empire TIME AGO, and people are different.
2.The UN didn't fucking exist try the LofN.
3. The indigenous peoples haven't been forgotten retard, people still study them in History class and feel ashamed for what we did.
4. People were protesting before the whole olympic torch situation, but obviously it just didn't make as much news.
5. People don't protest to sound good. They protest to get their view across and to try and make an impact.

I would like China become superpower than USA. US government are like pest to the East.

Not happening China while full of resources owes much of it's current development to the U.S. While the poverty line has risen the force behind said movement has been American. So don't bite the hand that feeds you. China now is in an industrial area and may stand to become a worldwide provider of resources, however the technological advancements of said country are far behind those of the other superpowers and especially the U.S. China is a great place but surpassing the U.S? Don't hold your breath...Change is upon us, in the next year you'll see a renewed United States Of America....

hey u can say the same about US that america own much of it's developments to china or asian countries and u have to put in the fact that china have the upper hand since america owe china so much debt like around a couple trillions

Actually not in the trillions and this is because a little over 5 years ago, American took on China's full debt, to allow for the progress they enjoy today. The symbiotic relationship was introduced by America, and although few want to admit it, America is still carrying China on it's back. One day soon China will establish itself, however it would never have done so alone. America gave China this opportunity...

if your gonna say something like that then we can mention something about africa here, america gave africa HIV and aids...lol

Africa had AIDS prior to any American involvement, and if I remember correctly Brittian gave the whole world a plethera of diseases: remember small pox or the black plague? An' how can we forget those wonderful ethical relations called the crusades...Know from which you speak, before you speak...

well aids is a man made disease that was created by an american. also so what if britain gave the world a disease, hitler tried to kill rest of the world and he doesn't get any praise, go give your praises to him.

No Britain gave the world many diseases, subjegated and murdered many people. Hitler was horrible but was it not Britain's fear of war that led to his rise in power. Even the country that "god saves the queen" did nothing but allow what would of been a border scirmish become a world war...

i agree about britain, however america is also a shit hole and it should be "god save america" with george bush being your representative

Correction the Bushes are shitholes, George Dubya being the biggest pile of steaming cow dung to ever grace god's green earth. I and much of young America see the old leadership for what it it separatist, prejudiced and outdated. Come the turn of the year and you'll see the beginnings of a new more globally vested America...The poltical climate has changed here, and the change will come whether bureaucrats like it or not. Remember these words, because we will change the status quo because, " Yes We Can..."

i hope so that you young americans(even though your 24 and live about a 3rd of your life) do not follow the path of saluting george bush, however instead you young americans have already supported people like 50 cent and eminem who has not done a thing for america. i mean george bush did not allow gay marriages to be legal and for that he gains my support.

I would like China become superpower than USA. US government are like pest to the East.

Not happening China while full of resources owes much of it's current development to the U.S. While the poverty line has risen the force behind said movement has been American. So don't bite the hand that feeds you. China now is in an industrial area and may stand to become a worldwide provider of resources, however the technological advancements of said country are far behind those of the other superpowers and especially the U.S. China is a great place but surpassing the U.S? Don't hold your breath...Change is upon us, in the next year you'll see a renewed United States Of America....

I think thats not the problem wat i refer to.

I mean they keep harrassing on China about Tibet. And they planned to boycott it. Omg this is East problem not West.Why need West to interupt Chinese affairs. Let China handle the Tibet situation. This is the worst Olympic games ever. Its not about economy or social related and watsoever. Its a world event, why need to disturb China about some small Tibet situation, i pity them much.

me: "here you go and you forgot to say 'please' as were all supposedly, being polite to each other"

you "i'm sorry but heres your food"

also u know thatS JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

it was supposedly to be a joke people,what has happened to people's sense of humor? i mean come on, look at the guy, he couldn't sell that dish even if they were giving it away for free, either way the chinese and japanese lookalike anyway as they all tend to dye their hair outrages colours