The Beatles Bible - Topic: Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/
Simple:Press Version 5.7.5.1LTJX on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-4/#p56792
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-4/#p56792

mr. Sun king coming together said

I maintain that allows cruel and unusual (the wording of the Constitution) to equal excessive punishment. I meant to say cruel and unusual, but i wrote excessive, hoping to get the same point across. Point taken on identity.

Ok, on second thought, I can see "excessive" as being reasonably equivalent in meaning to "cruel and unusual". Your point is well taken.

Sorry if I get shrill at times. Even after so many years, I still tend to see this whole issue through a lens of anger and disgust and sadness at the cold, callous way that ...]]>

Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:20:42 -0500mr. Sun king coming together on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-4/#p56703
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-4/#p56703

meanmistermustard said
Dont make out that Chapman is now being a victim.

I hate that I came across that way. I just can't find any reason that continuing to stay at a medium security prison will make any difference to MDC's willingness or ability to commit another crime (if he has any desire to). The point of a sentence is one of deterring the culprit to not repeat the offence. I can't see how 2 more years will make any difference in that regard.

Sun, 26 Aug 2012 02:54:20 -0500meanmistermustard on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56702
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56702Im sorry but explain to me how this is is a cruel punishment. Because he hasnt been released? The sentence was 20 years to life. Chapman is not a victim. And why is this punishment excessive?
]]>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 02:42:12 -0500mr. Sun king coming together on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56700
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56700

LTJX said

mr. Sun king coming together said
Unfortunately, the US Constitution disagrees. The Fifth Amendment is more important then your petty beliefs

I try not to cultivate petty beliefs, but I don't think the 5th Amendment is even relevant in this case. Chapman was indicted by a Grand Jury, he was not forced to testify against himself (I don't believe he testified at all) and he was not put in a double jeopardy situation. I said he should have been executed, and that has always been an accepted form of punishment for murder under American statute ...]]>

mr. Sun king coming together said
Unfortunately, the US Constitution disagrees. The Fifth Amendment is more important then your petty beliefs

I try not to cultivate petty beliefs, but I don't think the 5th Amendment is even relevant in this case. Chapman was indicted by a Grand Jury, he was not forced to testify against himself (I don't believe he testified at all) and he was not put in a double jeopardy situation. I said he should have been executed, and that has always been an accepted form of punishment for murder under American statute and legal tradition. Chapman ...]]>

Sun, 26 Aug 2012 01:53:45 -0500meanmistermustard on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56690
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56690Not cruel on who? John who was blasted to death yet crawled up the steps gasping for breath and life? Yoko, Julian & Sean who lost a husband and father. The other beatles, his friends and extended family, plus millions of fans?

Fairly quickly? John was alive for many minutes afterwards, still being alive in the hospital operating room when they battled to save him but couldnt due to the fatal damage done by Chapmans actions.

Murder is cruel however it is committed be it slow, fast, clean or horrid.

Chapman knew full well what he was doing, if it hadnt of been John it ...]]>

Sun, 26 Aug 2012 01:02:14 -0500minime on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56683
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56683So are we discussing now if the murder is first-or second degree? He was fully aware of what he was doing, he wasn't schizophrenia as far as I know, he planned it before and admitted being guilty. So it was a murder, no question about that, but I wouldn't consider it a particular "cruel" one- no torturing was included, the death was fairly quick, no bystanders were injured etc. Honestly, most murders aren't this clean.

I do think believe the victim's name is the main reason Chapman is still held captive. I find it very scary that people's social status can affect their ...]]>

]]>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 23:05:42 -0500Little Piggy Dragonguy on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56674
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56674Was the way John was killed that bad? If there was a good way to kill someone, I don't think the way John was killed would be all too far from that. He wasn't tortured first, and it was pretty fast. He also died before getting to the hospital, which, I would think, is much better than him dying in the hospital.
]]>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:58:36 -0500Zig on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56673
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56673OK people, one more time. The length of his sentence and lack of parole to this point is not based on who, but how he killed. Please put those 3 letters in the right order.

H

O

W

]]>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:46:41 -0500mr. Sun king coming together on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56672
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56672

meanmistermustard said

mr. Sun king coming together said
Whether or not who you kill should affect your sentence is a argument to be had (I don't support it, personally), but it is established legal doctrine that all men are equal. Zig said it well when he said he killed a human being who was also John Lennon. That is how he is viewed.

Maybe so but it would be naive to think that all men (and women in case someone gets annoyed by that term) are actually trully equal in society. I suppose it comes down to and depends on ...]]>

Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:31:42 -0500Little Piggy Dragonguy on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56671
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56671I think it was just John's time to go. Like I always say, "death is just God's way of taking out the trash," so if it wasn't his time he wouldn't have died. There was a story in the paper a couple years ago, and some lady missed her plane flight and died in a car crash on the way home, and the flight she missed ended up crashing anyways. She was just destined to die that day. I would have to say the way John had to die is a pretty bad way of going about it (especially ...]]>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:23:36 -0500meanmistermustard on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56669
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56669

mr. Sun king coming together said
Whether or not who you kill should affect your sentence is a argument to be had (I don't support it, personally), but it is established legal doctrine that all men are equal. Zig said it well when he said he killed a human being who was also John Lennon. That is how he is viewed.

Maybe so but it would be naive to think that all men (and women in case someone gets annoyed by that term) are actually trully equal in society. I suppose it comes down to and depends on what you ...]]>

Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:15:47 -0500mr. Sun king coming together on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56666
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56666Whether or not who you kill should affect your sentence is a argument to be had (I don't support it, personally), but it is established legal doctrine that all men are equal. Zig said it well when he said he killed a human being who was also John Lennon. That is how he is viewed.
]]>Sat, 25 Aug 2012 22:05:13 -0500meanmistermustard on Help Oppose John Lennon's Killer from getting Parole https://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56663
John Lennonhttps://www.beatlesbible.com/forum/john-lennon/help-oppose-john-lennons-killer-from-getting-parole/page-3/#p56663Its difficult because everyone should be equal in an ideal world, however that is not the case and it would be ignorant to think so. People are more equal than others. The lower down you are the louder you have to shout to get your voice heard, the harder you have to fight to get your case heard. I dont believe its right but it is the way society operates in my opinion.

Should killing a world famous pop star as influential as John bring a greater sentence than the local nightclub singer if nearly everything else is equal (motive, selection policy)? There is an ...]]>