Rather than clog up Zahru's forum battle threads any more, here's a new brainstorming thread for "Leader" units.

The problem: everybody keeps using their Heroes to give speeches to give "inspiration" to other troops so that the troops can do all the combat while the Hero sits around doing nothing. This is super un-Heroic. But leadership and inspiration feats are something cool that I want to preserve elsewhere, probably in one or more units who are more suited for it. There are three things I want to look into for chapter 11:

6. An Officer unit. This guy will be pretty common, not limited by Ego the way Heroes are; his job is to hand out those kinds of inspiration bonuses automatically. The current plan is that any Squad with at least one Officer will get a +1 die size Skill boost to everyone in the Squad automatically, up to 1d8. But this could be more varied - maybe they can choose between a +1 Skill size, a +2" Move, a +1 Momentum, etc. Maybe any Squad with an Officer gets an Instant Benny every turn, although those are better suited for individuals than for squads.

7. A Leader unit. As opposed to Officers, this role will be exclusive - only one guy can be Leader at any time, although maybe there would be ways to pass on the role if a Leader is killed. His job would be to hand out the kinds of general inspiration bonuses that we're currently getting from Heroic Feats, available to anyone, not just his own squad. He would be able to grant inspiration to one action per turn, but there's no limit to how many units might participate in that one action; this makes a Leader's bonus most effective when applied to a bunch of people working together rather than an individual action. (Examples: Everybody fire on that entry hatch, everyone brace for impact, everyone double-time it to the latrines, etc.) I don't like idea of making a new class of Leadership Feats - it just sits wrong with me for some reason - but that might be an option; I would also look at granting Blessing-style rerolls.

8. A Banner equipment item that serves to inspire nearby units, either within a certain range or within the squad that posesses it. Any inspiring symbol will do; holy relics, artifakt weapons, giant drums, whatever. These would be much more likely tied to specific bonuses - a trumpet of +1d6 attack damage, an icon of +1d6 Armor, a Leonidas's Mom of +1 Skill, etc. The bonuses are handy but, because it's an equipment item, it can be stolen and then you get the equivalent penalty when your enemies parade it around all desecrated or whatever.

So those are the very rough ideas I have on the table, but I'm looking for any thoughts anyone has for making these units feel unique and specialized for their roles, and not just like Heroes with a different paint job.

There should be a politician/diplomat stat card, for people who do order withdrawing from combat safely, negotiating more diplomatically, and surrendering more sweetly. I would but I can't bring myself to pirate photoshop.

That's a good idea. Your army would get a Skill or Damage penalty or something as long as the Diplomat lived, but then you'd get a pile of Instant Bennies on whichever turn you decided to kill him. The longer he lived, the more Instant Bennies he would save up for you to spend after his death, kind of like Bennies of Inevitable Betrayal.

GENERAL COST: 24 cpSkill: 1d6Move: 5"Armor: 6special: BOOST!A general has 5d6 to boost all units around him. He gets an automatic 10" radius to units he can easily boost. He can roll 1d6 or more to boost skill, armor, or roll by that much. The unit boosted keeps these new stats until the end of a turn. Leaders can be red shirted.

8. A Banner equipment item that serves to inspire nearby units, either within a certain range or within the squad that posesses it. Any inspiring symbol will do; holy relics, artifakt weapons, giant drums, whatever. These would be much more likely tied to specific bonuses - a trumpet of +1d6 attack damage, an icon of +1d6 Armor, a Leonidas's Mom of +1 Skill, etc. The bonuses are handy but, because it's an equipment item, it can be stolen and then you get the equivalent penalty when your enemies parade it around all desecrated or whatever.

I really like this one. The items can end up being as stupid, hilarious, awesome, or serious as the players want, and then they add sort of a tactical decision making when your opponent steals it. It probably should be something like a 5" radius for its AOE. Then you can get rid of squads completely.

I like the idea of having a dice pool that the unit can tap into every turn. Let's say, for example, that he has a Command pool of 3d6. He can distribute these however he wants, whether it be all on one squad, one on three separate squads, or a 2-1 split. That way, it becomes more difficult to boost more units, and he can focus his dice more on a single squad.

There would definitely have to be some sort of Ker-Bolster! table, but it's just a thought.

aoffan23 wrote:I like the idea of having a dice pool that the unit can tap into every turn. Let's say, for example, that he has a Command pool of 3d6. He can distribute these however he wants, whether it be all on one squad, one on three separate squads, or a 2-1 split. That way, it becomes more difficult to boost more units, and he can focus his dice more on a single squad.

There would definitely have to be some sort of Ker-Bolster! table, but it's just a thought.

aoffan23 wrote:I like the idea of having a dice pool that the unit can tap into every turn. Let's say, for example, that he has a Command pool of 3d6. He can distribute these however he wants, whether it be all on one squad, one on three separate squads, or a 2-1 split. That way, it becomes more difficult to boost more units, and he can focus his dice more on a single squad.

There would definitely have to be some sort of Ker-Bolster! table, but it's just a thought.

aoffan23 wrote:I like the idea of having a dice pool that the unit can tap into every turn. Let's say, for example, that he has a Command pool of 3d6. He can distribute these however he wants, whether it be all on one squad, one on three separate squads, or a 2-1 split. That way, it becomes more difficult to boost more units, and he can focus his dice more on a single squad.

There would definitely have to be some sort of Ker-Bolster! table, but it's just a thought.

The dice pool would work, but it's just equivalent to what he would have if he were a SuperNatural unit. It means that there'd be no difference between killing an enemy Leader or killing some random enemy 3d6 wizard. It doesn't make him feel particularly important.

stubby wrote:The dice pool would work, but it's just equivalent to what he would have if he were a SuperNatural unit. It means that there'd be no difference between killing an enemy Leader or killing some random enemy 3d6 wizard. It doesn't make him feel particularly important.

Maybe have the same dice pool as a penalty? While the leader is still alive, they grant the bonus dice. If they die, then the opponent who killed them gets to use those dice to penalize units however they see fit. So let's go with the 3d6 example, and say the opponent (after killing the leader) rolls a 5, a 3, and a 1. Again, I haven't read up on SuperNatural Dice, but I assume 1s are crit fails as always. So the player uses the 5 to stop a unit of regular minifigs from moving (-5"), the 3 to make a tank gunner miss (-3 to skill, assuming the skill roll is low enough), and the last die does nothing.

It would be pretty cool to see a player scramble to enough units work together to make it so that at least one unit could avoid a negative effect. It's the kind of desperation you'd see if an army lost their most valuable commander.

Last edited by aoffan23 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

Just thought about how overpowered that effect could become, but I think I know a way around it. On the first turn after the leader dies, the opponent can use the full dice pool. Every turn afterward, they remove one die from the pool until there are none remaining, and the force has successfully regrouped. More powerful leaders will have much more dire consquences, and the player will feel it for more turns.

Officer and Leader use the same ability in different ways, so you could save yourself some work and put them on the same card. Just offer the ability to use the bigger targeted area (in the original example, the difference between squad and army) as a CP Upgrade.

The Banner idea is really neat. Reminds me of the relationship between Heroes and Heroic Weapons. Perhaps Banners and Leaders could have a similar relationship? Where Banners wielded by Leaders or a member of a squad they're currently joined to boost the Leader's abilities. Doesn't make much sense as stands but its a thought for if you decide to go another direction.

I get the sense that each specialized unit has its own system. Supes have dice pools, scouts have stealth rules, gunners have cooperation, mediks have ker-triage table, so on. I feel like those differences are what makes them interesting and worth including in games.

Quantumsurfer wrote:The Banner idea is really neat. Reminds me of the relationship between Heroes and Heroic Weapons. Perhaps Banners and Leaders could have a similar relationship? Where Banners wielded by Leaders or a member of a squad they're currently joined to boost the Leader's abilities. Doesn't make much sense as stands but its a thought for if you decide to go another direction.

I get the sense that each specialized unit has its own system. Supes have dice pools, scouts have stealth rules, gunners have cooperation, mediks have ker-triage table, so on. I feel like those differences are what makes them interesting and worth including in games.

Ironically I was thinking about giving the Briktoid Astromek's something similar to the Banner idea, having been inspired by my time in Planetside 2.

Since Briktoid Astromeks are suppose to be the "Glorious Leaders" of the faction, they would give +1 Skill and +1 Range Damage bonuses to EVERY unit within range.And by EVERY unit, I mean every unit, be it friendly, enemy, or unaligned.

The logic is friendly troops will fight harder when they are in the presence of prestigious leaders hoping to receive recognition, while enemy troops will hound them to obtain glory.In essence, you could say it turns a leader into a mini-objective, successfully capturing one alive could allow you to use those bonuses to decimate his army, but if they get close enough to rescue him you could be screwed.