I'm not sure if this is the exact location for this topic but it is as close as I could find.

I have made an inquiry to counsel but wanted to get an opinion, hopefully not conjecture and speculation based, from the forum members.

As you know getting the military or any government agency to do something is like pulling teeth. There are several of us here at work whom are avid shooters and have various experiences with military installations with regard to the transport of personal weapons/firearms on a base. We have inquired of the local base authorities and have received multiple “understandings” of what the rules are. The answers are not consistent to say the least. There are two variants to the question; first there is a shotgun range on base that we desire to shoot skeet at and the second variant is the desire to convey the weapons in the trunk of the auto to go to a commercial range off base. Both of these would involve transporting the weapon(s) from our residence off base to the parking lot on base then to either the on or off base range after work. We have received a myriad of replies which are incongruous. Finally, we received a reference to Title 18 USC 930. I’m not sure of the currency of the statute on the Cornell website but after reviewing it, it appears that there may be some wiggle room in subsection (d)(3) and the escape clause in subsection(h). In your opinion does the language “or other lawful purposes” in this subsection make allowance for what I have described?

Title 18 USC 930 Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

Quote:

(a)Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States. (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

September 5th, 2008, 01:22 PM

David in FL

Every base at which I was ever stationed had recreational shooting ranges. Rifle/pistol, skeet/trap, heck archery..... I've prob seen thousands of recreational shooters carrying their weapons to and from those ranges in their POV's. I can't imagine how anyone could interpret doing so as forbidden.

Regardless though, your base regs should address the subject. I imagine that there is likely a requirement for the weapons to be unloaded and cased during transport, but I'd bet a paycheck that there's no problem with doing so.

September 5th, 2008, 01:30 PM

SIGguy229

Keep it locked in your trunk, unloaded, with ammo separate.

This was what I did when I was stationed in Louisiana and went shooting on base at the skeet/trap range.

For "official word"--talk to the base security forces/provost marshal. As long as you don't take the guns into your building for safekeeping, you are ok.

September 5th, 2008, 02:00 PM

rolyat63

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Every base at which I was ever stationed had recreational shooting ranges. Rifle/pistol, skeet/trap, heck archery..... I've prob seen thousands of recreational shooters carrying their weapons to and from those ranges in their POV's. I can't imagine how anyone could interpret doing so as forbidden.

Regardless though, your base regs should address the subject. I imagine that there is likely a requirement for the weapons to be unloaded and cased during transport, but I'd bet a paycheck that there's no problem with doing so.

Yes, the base regs should address it. We have requested the reg and have been pointed to a base instruction, the link is dead. We are trying to get a hard copy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGguy229

Keep it locked in your trunk, unloaded, with ammo separate.

This was what I did when I was stationed in Louisiana and went shooting on base at the skeet/trap range.

For "official word"--talk to the base security forces/provost marshal. As long as you don't take the guns into your building for safekeeping, you are ok.

May I infer from the language that both of you use that you were/are military not Air Force :danceban: ? Yep, locking it in your trunk is the prescribed federal method for interstate transport. We have asked the SPs, who told us to speak with the armor, who said the trunk deal. Went by the cop shop to get the reg to have in case the wet behind the ears SP did the gate inspection and chose to err on the side of caution. Desk Sgt said you could transport but must go directly to the range and off the base. Do not pass go, do not stop at work etc... Ask for the reg...no answer. Went back to the SPs, spoke with a Sr. Chief. Got the feeling they wanted to arrest us just for talking about it. Got the Title 18 reference but still no reg. The reg they cited does not contain the paragraph they cited. ...

I am not sure a paycheck would pay the fees to prevail (which, I believe you would) in court.

Gen Norman Schwarkopz would be dissapointed that the skeet range he had put in could not be used.

September 5th, 2008, 02:15 PM

David in FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolyat63

I am not sure a paycheck would pay the fees to prevail (which, I believe you would) in court.

I don't know.....I've been off active duty for a loooonnnnng time now..... :image035:

Easiest thing to do, is call the skeet range and ask them. I promise they'll know how to transport a personal, recreational firearm on base. They'll likely have a copy of the applicable regs in their possession too. Your command will also have a copy of every base reg on hand.

September 5th, 2008, 05:29 PM

Shotdown

Both bases I've been to (Elmendorf and Nellis AFB). The SPs told me that it has to be in your trunk, locked up and unloaded. You have to go directly to the range without making any stops anywhere.

September 5th, 2008, 05:46 PM

PatrioticRick

I'm retired AF and when I go to Mountain Home AFB or Hill AFB with my CCW, all I am asked to do, is unload it and put it in my trunk and keep it there while on base.

September 5th, 2008, 06:23 PM

RETSUPT99

We lived on a military base in the Aleutian Islands for 7 years...kept my weapons at home, had a skeet range, a regular shooting range, and I could take my weapons hunting out in the tundra (still military base land) any time I felt like...never had to register any weapons.

Stay armed...know the rules...stay safe!

September 5th, 2008, 07:48 PM

spooter66

Try going to the base admin office. They are required to keep a master library of every AF reg used on the base and a copy of every base reg. While they are not the security experts they handle the regs everyday and could probably point you to the regs that cover that topic. You would have to do your own searching through the reg though.

September 5th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Recon4Life2

The POW range on FT Knox has MWR cards they give out for civilians wanting to shoot there. That way if the gate guards give you problems, you have "proof" of what your intent is.

September 5th, 2008, 09:17 PM

SIGguy229

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolyat63

Yes, the base regs should address it. We have requested the reg and have been pointed to a base instruction, the link is dead. We are trying to get a hard copy.

May I infer from the language that both of you use that you were/are military not Air Force :danceban: ? Yep, locking it in your trunk is the prescribed federal method for interstate transport. We have asked the SPs, who told us to speak with the armor, who said the trunk deal. Went by the cop shop to get the reg to have in case the wet behind the ears SP did the gate inspection and chose to err on the side of caution. Desk Sgt said you could transport but must go directly to the range and off the base. Do not pass go, do not stop at work etc... Ask for the reg...no answer. Went back to the SPs, spoke with a Sr. Chief. Got the feeling they wanted to arrest us just for talking about it. Got the Title 18 reference but still no reg. The reg they cited does not contain the paragraph they cited. ...

I am not sure a paycheck would pay the fees to prevail (which, I believe you would) in court.

Gen Norman Schwarkopz would be dissapointed that the skeet range he had put in could not be used.

Ask to see/make an appointment with the Operations Officer (usually a senior Capt or Major). They should be able to point you in the right direction. The Point A to Point B method is the safe method--and usually a book answer. You should be able keep it in your trunk during duty hours (i.e. lunchtime shoot)

September 5th, 2008, 09:19 PM

SIGguy229

Quote:

Originally Posted by spooter66

Try going to the base admin office. They are required to keep a master library of every AF reg used on the base and a copy of every base reg. While they are not the security experts they handle the regs everyday and could probably point you to the regs that cover that topic. You would have to do your own searching through the reg though.

Not any more...most of these "regs"--now called "instructions"--are posted online on the base's intranet. The CBPO is no more

September 5th, 2008, 09:46 PM

spooter66

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGguy229

Not any more...most of these "regs"--now called "instructions"--are posted online on the base's intranet. The CBPO is no more

Damn, I'm showing my age again! Sorry, its been a few years. Keep hounding the LE desk eventually they will get tired of seeing you and someone will help you. :blink: :blink: :blink: They do still have a LE desk don't they, or is that on the intra-net also?

September 5th, 2008, 10:00 PM

wjh2657

I spent most of my adult life on military bases (30 years active duty in USMC) but each base had unique rules. If there was a gun club on base, they were tolerant about private weapons going and coming from range. Others absolutely prohibited them. I am currently a serving officer of the Tennessee State Guard, part of the Military Department of the State of Tennessee and a recognized military service. I cannot carry a firearm of any kind onto a military base in Tennessee!This rule is for anybody, including active duty Army and National Guard , unless they are carrying an issued arm in the line of duty. HCP doesn't cut it, no firearms, even for off duty police officers coming on post to stand military duty. a lot of this has come about since 911. I don't know about other states and can't comment on them. When I report to my command on drill weekends, I am gun free, don't even have it in the lock box in the trunk.

September 5th, 2008, 10:34 PM

KG4ZRC

Here on Tyndall (and on Grand Forks while I was there) the rules were/are:

1. Transport your weapons unloaded.
2. If you live on base, and are going to an off-base shooting range, once your weapons are loaded in your POV you are to drive straight off base. Coming home, once you pass the guard shack, you are to drive straight to your residence. No stopping anywhere.
3. If going to on base range, go straight to range, do not stop anywhere. Same when heading home.
4. CCW does not exist on a military installation.

Basically, you can transport your weapons but you must be driving straight to your residence or straight off base. No stopping at the shoppette to get drinks.

I go to work unarmed. I cannot even leave it in my POV. If I plan on going shooting after work, I must drive home to pick up the pistol before going to the range (no exeptions). If I plan on hitting the skeet range on base, I have to drive home to pick up the shotgun after I get off work and then go back to the skeet range on Tyndall.

And remember, technically if you live in base housing and have firearms they must be registered with the base armory.

Have any questions just ask. I work on Tyndall and I am not about to 1. get arrested 2. Loose my job over not knowing a rule.