Islam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam any longer.

In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular western liberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusion being that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but is completely western liberal secularism instead.

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam any longer.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular western liberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusion being that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but is completely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538

There are different strands of Christianity, even of Communism andToryism, so why not of Islam?

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam any longer.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular western liberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusion being that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but is completely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538

There are different strands of Christianity, even of Communism andToryism, so why not of Islam?

This strand of Islam is new, different and quite tiny. It is a very good idea indeed and I hope it catches on. It just seemed strange the the BBC should be pushing the idea that today's Islam is ignorant and intolerant dogshit and how nice it would be if it were something else instead. The BBC are quite right of course and are to be encouraged, as are the newly emerging deviant Muslims.

What a pity they had to go all the way to Berlin to find a mosque like that. Why not Birmingham or Bradford?

"Svenne" wrote in message news:6d0ad863-62c8-4eff-85a4-***@googlegroups.com...

Islam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam anylonger.

In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular westernliberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusionbeing that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but iscompletely western liberal secularism instead.

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam any longer.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular westernliberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusionbeing that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but iscompletely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538==It sounds like a good idea .. until it gets bombed:(

There are many tricky theological problems to resolve before we see a modern, reformed Islam that fits into the modern world.

It's going to take a long time before female Imams are commonplace, especially transgender ones. And what about married lesbian Imams? If married lesbian Imams ever do come about, how many wives will they be able to have and which ones will be the "wives"? Will a bunch of them be able to just get married as a crowd? How will they know which ones are the "wives"? Will they wear a different coloured burka? They will make a fine sight in the local Ummah's representation in the Pride parade.

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam anylonger.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular westernliberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusionbeing that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but iscompletely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538==It sounds like a good idea .. until it gets bombed:(

There are many tricky theological problems to resolve before we see amodern, reformed Islam that fits into the modern world.

It's going to take a long time before female Imams are commonplace,especially transgender ones. And what about married lesbian Imams? Ifmarried lesbian Imams ever do come about, how many wives will they be ableto have and which ones will be the "wives"? Will a bunch of them be able tojust get married as a crowd? How will they know which ones are the "wives"?Will they wear a different coloured burka? They will make a fine sight inthe local Ummah's representation in the Pride parade.

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam anylonger.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular westernliberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusionbeing that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but iscompletely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538It sounds like a good idea .. until it gets bombed:(

There are many tricky theological problems to resolve before we see amodern, reformed Islam that fits into the modern world.It's going to take a long time before female Imams are commonplace,especially transgender ones. And what about married lesbian Imams? Ifmarried lesbian Imams ever do come about, how many wives will they be ableto have and which ones will be the "wives"? Will a bunch of them be able tojust get married as a crowd? How will they know which ones are the "wives"?Will they wear a different coloured burka? They will make a fine sight inthe local Ummah's representation in the Pride parade.===I don't know, but once the militant Islamists get wind of it ...

They've got wind of it already and reacted in the way we have come to expect from the Religion of Peace and Love with fatwas and death threats:

"Seyran Ates has been beaten up in the street, received death threats and had fatwas issued against her since she opened her mosque in Berlin where men and women can pray together and explore a liberal version of Islam."

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam anylonger.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular westernliberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusionbeing that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but iscompletely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538It sounds like a good idea .. until it gets bombed:(

There are many tricky theological problems to resolve before we see amodern, reformed Islam that fits into the modern world.It's going to take a long time before female Imams are commonplace,especially transgender ones. And what about married lesbian Imams? Ifmarried lesbian Imams ever do come about, how many wives will they be ableto have and which ones will be the "wives"? Will a bunch of them be able tojust get married as a crowd? How will they know which ones are the "wives"?Will they wear a different coloured burka? They will make a fine sight inthe local Ummah's representation in the Pride parade.===I don't know, but once the militant Islamists get wind of it ...

They've got wind of it already and reacted in the way we have come to expectfrom the Religion of Peace and Love with fatwas and death threats:

"Seyran Ates has been beaten up in the street, received death threats andhad fatwas issued against her since she opened her mosque in Berlin wheremen and women can pray together and explore a liberal version of Islam."

Post by OpheliaI couldn't have put it better myself! It certainly comes as no surprise.I don't fancy that woman's chances of a long life.

She's certainly not a very intelligent woman. Islam is not what she wants it to be, she has nothing in common with it and has a value system that is the opposite of Islam, so what does the idiot do? Instead of doing the intelligent thing, leaving Islam and joining something more in line with her values, she sets out to change islam so Islam lines up with her values.

She's risking life and limb trying to change Islam into something else instead of abandoning the pile of idiot dogshit for something more suitable. There are lots of religions out there and as crazy as a lot of them are, most of them are far better than Islam.

Post by OpheliaI couldn't have put it better myself! It certainly comes as no surprise.I don't fancy that woman's chances of a long life.

She's certainly not a very intelligent woman. Islam is not what she wants itto be, she has nothing in common with it and has a value system that is theopposite of Islam, so what does the idiot do? Instead of doing theintelligent thing, leaving Islam and joining something more in line with hervalues, she sets out to change islam so Islam lines up with her values.

She's risking life and limb trying to change Islam into something elseinstead of abandoning the pile of idiot dogshit for something more suitable.There are lots of religions out there and as crazy as a lot of them are,most of them are far better than Islam.

Post by OpheliaI couldn't have put it better myself! It certainly comes as nosurprise. I don't fancy that woman's chances of a long life.

She's certainly not a very intelligent woman. Islam is not what shewants it to be, she has nothing in common with it and has a valuesystem that is the opposite of Islam, so what does the idiot do?Instead of doing the intelligent thing, leaving Islam and joiningsomething more in line with her values, she sets out to change islamso Islam lines up with her values.She's risking life and limb trying to change Islam into somethingelse instead of abandoning the pile of idiot dogshit for somethingmore suitable. There are lots of religions out there and as crazy asa lot of them are, most of them are far better than Islam.

I imagine she identifies with it for cultural reasons, much as manypeople call themselves Christians even though their beliefs andlifestyle bear little relation to what it teaches. The fact that theydon't attend church and have an emotional connexion with it because theyused to sing hymns at school at the top of their lungs and enjoyChristmas spent with the family doesn't occur to them.

Post by Ophelia===I don't know, but once the militant Islamists get wind of it ...

That's a crucial point -see below

Post by SvenneThey've got wind of it already and reacted in the way we have come toexpect from the Religion of Peace and Love with fatwas and death"Seyran Ates has been beaten up in the street, received death threatsand had fatwas issued against her since she opened her mosque inBerlin where men and women can pray together and explore a liberalversion of Islam."http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/liberal-mosque-seyran-ates-founder-lawyer-burqa-ban-death-threats-islam-muslim-a7861461.htmlSo much for the demented perversity of Muzzlam, a festering boil onthe asshole of humanity.

There are what, about 3 million Muslims in Britain? Of those, maybe 1 in400 could be considered 'radicalised', so that leaves 99.75% that can beconsidered moderate. It seems hardly fair that they should be tarnishedwith the same brush as the extremists.

Post by Svenne"Seyran Ates has been beaten up in the street, received death threatsand had fatwas issued against her since she opened her mosque inBerlin where men and women can pray together and explore a liberalversion of Islam."http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/liberal-mosque-seyran-ates-founder-lawyer-burqa-ban-death-threats-islam-muslim-a7861461.htmlSo much for the demented perversity of Muzzlam, a festering boil onthe asshole of humanity.

Muslim Jihadists have their understanding of Islam. It is very easy for them to have that understanding, Islamic texts lend themselves readily to it. Others have different understandings but it is just plain wrong to assert the Jihadists have "misinterpreted" or "misunderstood" Islam. Their understanding of Islam is just as valid as any other, perhaps even more valid than that of the woman in question who wants a gay friendly and gender inclusive secular liberal Islam.

Post by VidcapperThere are what, about 3 million Muslims in Britain? Of those, maybe 1 in400 could be considered 'radicalised', so that leaves 99.75% that can beconsidered moderate. It seems hardly fair that they should be tarnishedwith the same brush as the extremists.

What do mean by "moderate"? That they don't want to drive trucks into crowds, set bombs off and behead infidels? Thankfully you're right about that, but if they did want to do such things they would find ample support for it in their religious texts.

But the question here is not Jihadism but support for gay, trans and women's rights within the context of a secular liberal world view. I don't suppose that sort of thing is prevalent within the Muslim community. Quite the opposite.

And as for "islamophobia" I am on record as being a resolute, absolute and unconditional defender of the right of everyone to believe and practice any retarded garbage they like, including the pile of idiot horseshit called "Islam", as long as they stay within the law while doing it.

Post by VidcapperMilitant muslims do *not* represent the faith in general, that'sthe point - anyone who claims otherwise leaves themselves open toaccusations of Islamophobia.

Muslim Jihadists have their understanding of Islam. It is very easyfor them to have that understanding, Islamic texts lend themselvesreadily to it. Others have different understandings but it is justplain wrong to assert the Jihadists have "misinterpreted" or"misunderstood" Islam. Their understanding of Islam is just as validas any other, perhaps even more valid than that of the woman inquestion who wants a gay friendly and gender inclusive secularliberal Islam.

It's the selective interpretation of religious texts that is the problem- particularly the omission of the moderating passages.

Post by SvenneAnd as for "islamophobia" I am on record as being a resolute,absolute and unconditional defender of the right of everyone tobelieve and practice any retarded garbage they like, including thepile of idiot horseshit called "Islam", as long as they stay withinthe law while doing it.

As an atheist, I consider all religious texts to be of very dubiousmerit, especially the parts about the supreme being talking direct tothe 'prophet'. After all, Mike Corley says he hears voices in his head,but that hardly makes him a prophet!

Post by VidcapperMilitant muslims do *not* represent the faith in general, that'sthe point - anyone who claims otherwise leaves themselves open toaccusations of Islamophobia.

Muslim Jihadists have their understanding of Islam. It is very easyfor them to have that understanding, Islamic texts lend themselvesreadily to it. Others have different understandings but it is justplain wrong to assert the Jihadists have "misinterpreted" or"misunderstood" Islam. Their understanding of Islam is just as validas any other, perhaps even more valid than that of the woman inquestion who wants a gay friendly and gender inclusive secularliberal Islam.

It's the selective interpretation of religious texts that is the problem- particularly the omission of the moderating passages.

Religous texts tend to be very dubious and contradictory and can be used to justify a wide range of behaviours. But some interpretations are easier to make than others and Islam is particularly open to violent interpretations, especially considering the behaviour of its founder.

Post by SvenneAnd as for "islamophobia" I am on record as being a resolute,absolute and unconditional defender of the right of everyone tobelieve and practice any retarded garbage they like, including thepile of idiot horseshit called "Islam", as long as they stay withinthe law while doing it.

As an atheist, I consider all religious texts to be of very dubiousmerit, especially the parts about the supreme being talking direct tothe 'prophet'. After all, Mike Corley says he hears voices in his head,but that hardly makes him a prophet!

I expect a lot of "prophets" and cult leaders have a bit of Mike Corley about them except they hear the voice of God instead of MI5.

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam any longer.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular westernliberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusionbeing that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but iscompletely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538==It sounds like a good idea .. until it gets bombed:(

There are many tricky theological problems to resolve before we see a modern, reformed Islam that fits into the modern world.It's going to take a long time before female Imams are commonplace, especially transgender ones. And what about married lesbian Imams? If married lesbian Imams ever do come about, how many wives will they be able to have and which ones will be the "wives"? Will a bunch of them be able to just get married as a crowd? How will they know which ones are the "wives"? Will they wear a different coloured burka? They will make a fine sight in the local Ummah's representation in the Pride parade.

Transgender? There is no such thing.Sex is determined by Allah (Peace be Upon Him).Female Imams? No such thing either.Kinder, Küche, Moschee.

Cheers!

RJ (preferred jew aliash)- -

"We CAN hide forever."- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he willNEVER prove where he infests or give his real jew name

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the TradeUnionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a TradeUnionist. Then they came for the jews, and I did not speak outbecause I did not give a shit. Then they came for me and therewasn't a single commie bastard left to speak for me."- Martin Niemöller (1892 - 1984)

Post by Svenneable to have and which ones will be the "wives"? Will a bunch of them beable to just get married as a crowd? How will they know which ones arethe "wives"? Will they wear a different coloured burka? They will make afine sight in the local Ummah's representation in the Pride parade.

Transgender? There is no such thing.Sex is determined by Allah (Peace be Upon Him).Female Imams? No such thing either.Kinder, Küche, Moschee.

Post by SvenneIslam is a beautiful, tolerant and inclusive religion if it isn't Islam any longer.In fact the less like Islam that it is and the more like secular western liberalism that it becomes, the better Islam is. The logical conclusion being that Islam is best of all when it is not Islam at all but is completely western liberal secularism instead.What a strange article from the BBC.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40802538

Religion - where you read a book so as to know what to believe exceptwhen you are told different by people who claim to know different.