He is pretty obnoxious, threatening to 'order the Shado pan to purge the horde from the vale', why the heck didn't he order them to kill the Thunder King? Oh yeah, because they spent the entire expansion being useless, and Taran'zhu is the most useless of all for allowing himself to become corrupted by the Sha when he is supposed to be in charge.

Unlike the Mogu, we sleep. In-lore, the Shrine of Two Moons isn't a fortified military base full of troops and adventurers. It's full of exhausted refugees huddled together for shelter and warmth with, at best, a skeleton crew of guards. If Taran Zhu sent in the Wu Kao to kill everyone in their sleep, the Horde in the Vale wouldn't have stood a chance.

Also, if you spent any time doing the Isle of Thunder leadups, you saw how Taoshi assassinated a ship full of Zandalari, snuck us in past their sentry totems, assassinated the gatekeeper, and even Jaina and Lor'themar admit she did an entire army's work with just one adventurer's help.

And, yanno, grand job missing how Lorewalker Cho--someone who's life's work is recording and understanding history--even goes out of his way to point out after the battle at Serpent's Heart that Sha of the size and power we encounter had no historical record. We caused the problems in Pandaria by allowing Anger to drive the yaungol mad, Fear to corrupt the Mantid empress and force a swarm 100 years early, and the other five to infest the rest of Pandaria. We were the ones that empowered the Sha enough to allow them to infect the Temple of the Jade Serpent and the Shado-Pan Monastery. We are the villains here, and saying that we were decent enough to clean up our own messes doesn't excuse the fact that what we did was the equivalent of Crips and Bloods storming into someone's house, shooting each other over who gets to stay there, then calling foul when the homeowner threatens to pulp their heads with his shotgun.

Unlike the Mogu, we sleep. In-lore, the Shrine of Two Moons isn't a fortified military base full of troops and adventurers. It's full of exhausted refugees huddled together for shelter and warmth with, at best, a skeleton crew of guards. If Taran Zhu sent in the Wu Kao to kill everyone in their sleep, the Horde in the Vale wouldn't have stood a chance.

Also, if you spent any time doing the Isle of Thunder leadups, you saw how Taoshi assassinated a ship full of Zandalari, snuck us in past their sentry totems, assassinated the gatekeeper, and even Jaina and Lor'themar admit she did an entire army's work with just one adventurer's help.

And, yanno, grand job missing how Lorewalker Cho--someone who's life's work is recording and understanding history--even goes out of his way to point out after the battle at Serpent's Heart that Sha of the size and power we encounter had no historical record. We caused the problems in Pandaria by allowing Anger to drive the yaungol mad, Fear to corrupt the Mantid empress and force a swarm 100 years early, and the other five to infest the rest of Pandaria. We were the ones that empowered the Sha enough to allow them to infect the Temple of the Jade Serpent and the Shado-Pan Monastery. We are the villains here, and saying that we were decent enough to clean up our own messes doesn't excuse the fact that what we did was the equivalent of Crips and Bloods storming into someone's house, shooting each other over who gets to stay there, then calling foul when the homeowner threatens to pulp their heads with his shotgun.

Yeah, and like I said, it was always there regardless of us. They had it contained, and that was it. Should they have just kept stagnating like they were forever by your logic? There was no peaceful way for the sha to be taken care of. The only way to get rid of it is to bring it out and kill it. Rip out the roots. All the celestials and even Emporer Shaohao knew this was going to happen one day. The alliance and horde(rebel horde at least) aren't the heroes or the villains in this. They're just the spark that was eventually going to fall on the continent of kindling.

Also on Zhu's threatened purge of the horde owned temple, if he's willing to do that, why not just purge the freaking horde dig team that desecrated the vale before they got so much work in on it??

.... And now we are quite busy destroying it again - we are complete idiots.

Garrosh and the Kor'kron are. Not everybody else. They are pretty much to blame for most of the shit that hapened in Pandaria (except Jade Forest i guess, there that was just both the Horde and the Alliance being morons.).

Also on Zhu's threatened purge of the horde owned temple, if he's willing to do that, why not just purge the freaking horde dig team that desecrated the vale before they got so much work in on it??

Probably because he was busy with the event in the Isle of Thunder at that time, when patch 5.3 and the discussion with Dezco come out Taran seems more frustrated that angry tbh like "o ffs I was not paying attention for fucking second and see what happen"

Yeah, and like I said, it was always there regardless of us. They had it contained, and that was it. Should they have just kept stagnating like they were forever by your logic? There was no peaceful way for the sha to be taken care of. The only way to get rid of it is to bring it out and kill it. Rip out the roots. All the celestials and even Emporer Shaohao knew this was going to happen one day. The alliance and horde(rebel horde at least) aren't the heroes or the villains in this. They're just the spark that was eventually going to fall on the continent of kindling.

If the Alliance and Horde had done so with the intent of permanently purging the Sha, you'd have a point, but they didn't. They couldn't have cared less about it until they unleashed the Prime Sha, at which point the armies kept merrily killing each other while adventurers excused themselves to clean up the factions' messes, freeing the Shado-Pan up to send other troops to trouble spots until further backup could arrive. The entirety of Townlong is basically you helping them send backup from A to B to pick up their losses when they got stretched thin by the swarms, yaungol rampages, and Sha outbreaks.

Also on Zhu's threatened purge of the horde owned temple, if he's willing to do that, why not just purge the freaking horde dig team that desecrated the vale before they got so much work in on it??

Judging by voice files and quest chatter/scenario gossip, it happened while the Shado-Pan were tied up at the Isle of Thunder and I don't doubt that if Taran Zhu had gone through with purging the Shrine, he'd have done so at the digsite as well (for what good it would've done; Malkorok had already left with the Heart by then). That's why he was so shocked--he returns after Lei Shen is dead only to find out that Garrosh sent Kor'kron into the Vale to dig it up and retrieve anything of value. Then the digsite went to shit like we see in Dark Heart of Pandaria.

I actually enjoy someone mentioning all the crap our "heroes" have been causing for years now^^
We are like the most shizofrenic mass murdering psychopaths ever.
And I always felt a little bad, when, after a session of mass murder for the forsaken, someone praised me, because I rescued a kitten in the next area

I was disgusted with the quests in the undead area, and some of the forsaken quests are about mass murder of innocents... Disgusting, and leaves you with a horrible taste if you choose to do them. That's not war, just fiendish slaughter of innocents.

But generally speaking I'm happy about how honorable my "character" is, he/she has always done what's right for the given moment, or at least what the circumstances allowed for besides simply keeling over and dying. Our characters are extremely powerful, but also extremely far from omnipotence, thus their decisions will always be anchored in how much they can do, the things they can't "capture" or "isolate" they will kill/finish off, the choice to keep someone alive despite them wanting to kill you is only reserved to the infinitely powerful...

Anyway, many of the decisions were made for us by the NPCs that actually lead the story ahead, there's no branching story in WoW based on player decision so one would have to say those damn NPCs are the ones leading us down the path of chaos and destruction.

I'm not sure if it's a coincidence but it's one more occasion which shows that the Horde playerbase is much more immature than the Alliance one. Every Neutral Faction leader who has taken action against the Horde is immediately a bad character and should die. Don't know if anyone else considered it. Just mentioning it.

On a more serious note now it's no wonder the Horde have made enemies of all of Azeroth again.

Garrosh and the Kor'kron are. Not everybody else. They are pretty much to blame for most of the shit that hapened in Pandaria (except Jade Forest i guess, there that was just both the Horde and the Alliance being morons.).

Yeah they're doing most of the destruction. Not counting what Garrosh is doing, the alliance and horde have both destroyed parts of pandaria. And I don't see the alliance leaving so you're certainly not helping. You can't blame everything on the horde.

Excuse me but this excuse has to stop. The Horde pretty much supported Garrosh's destruction until the part where he decided to act alone. Until then they didn't had any problem attacking Neutral Factions, Taking Weapons from Enemies we both cooperated to destroy and of course damaging everything in their path. Wrathion, Jaina, Taran Zu are just a fraction of what Azeroth thinks of the Horde. They are much more even though they are not shown in game. Any NPC who's life was damaged by the Horde they will not blame Garrosh only as he is not acting alone.

If you do the horde intro into Pandaria and the proving to Xuen, Taran Zhu seems like an asshole. If you read "Vol'Jin: Shadows of the Horde" however, you find that, while cryptic and reclusive, Taran Zhu becomes kind of a badass when he spearhands a zandalari through plate armor and thick troll muscle. In one shot, I might add