I think that the original Jorus would have been a problem for Palpatine. He was simply too arrogant to control and, as we have seen in both novels and movies, Palpatine wanted his apprentices under his control. A clone would be much easier to control because he could be flash taught everything Palpatine wanted to know while omitting all that he didn't want him to know.

From what I remember, Jorus was a total psycho by the end of Outbound Flight. Seriously an extragalactic trip with a ship full of Jedi, some technicians, and children? What did he think was going to happen? The Outbound Flight, Jorus C'baoth's legacy, is the dumbest mission in Star Wars. As for why he was cloned? Maybe Palpatine liked his midi-chlorine count or something. Maybe Palpatine thought a clone Jorus would be dumb enough to be happy guarding a mountain.

He might have been taking the view that all the old order's traditions- no multiple padawans under one master, no training adults, no contact between Jedi and their families, no wielding of direct political power by the order- were mistakes, but since there was no way of convincing Yoda of that, the solution was to go away and come back later.

Pretty full of himself, certainly. But maybe, while distorted through the lens of his own ego, his vision wasn't far wrong?

Don't get me wrong. I agree with most of his talking points about the flaws of the OJO. The issue is that I have a hard time believing he would make those changes for the betterment of the Order and the galaxy instead of for his personal gain.

If I have to choose betweeen someone whose methods in the Force I agree with, but is out for nothing more than his ego OR someone whose methods in the Force differ from mine, but is solely out for the betterment of the galaxy im not sure who I would pick. It comes down, IMO, to beliefs vs, ethics. Which would you pick?

He might have been taking the view that all the old order's traditions- no multiple padawans under one master, no training adults, no contact between Jedi and their families, no wielding of direct political power by the order- were mistakes, but since there was no way of convincing Yoda of that, the solution was to go away and come back later.

Pretty full of himself, certainly. But maybe, while distorted through the lens of his own ego, his vision wasn't far wrong?

Except that Palpy saw eighteen Jedi (and a craft packed as full as possible with non-Force Sensitives in the higher-bracket midichlorian area) as an irresistable target!

If I have to choose betweeen someone whose methods in the Force I agree with, but is out for nothing more than his ego OR someone whose methods in the Force differ from mine, but is solely out for the betterment of the galaxy im not sure who I would pick. It comes down, IMO, to beliefs vs, ethics. Which would you pick?

Jacen saw himself as "solely out for the betterment of the galaxy" but thanks to The Dark Side's effects on his thinking, everything went downhill fast.

If I have to choose betweeen someone whose methods in the Force I agree with, but is out for nothing more than his ego OR someone whose methods in the Force differ from mine, but is solely out for the betterment of the galaxy im not sure who I would pick. It comes down, IMO, to beliefs vs, ethics. Which would you pick?

Jacen saw himself as "solely out for the betterment of the galaxy" but thanks to The Dark Side's effects on his thinking, everything went downhill fast.

My point is, I disagree with many tenents of the OJO, but we know Yoda was out to help the galaxy...not for his own gain. While I agreed with Jorus on some issues it's obvious he was corrupt. We can't let a persons beliefs and ideas distract us from their true morals and the way they treat other forms of life.

That someone like Jorus C'Baoth could not only remain at large without getting his ass sent to Lola Sayu but be put in charge of Outbound Flight is one of the most shameful moments of the PT-era Jedi Order. The guy was slightly more stable than his clone.

That someone like Jorus C'Baoth could not only remain at large without getting his ass sent to Lola Sayu but be put in charge of Outbound Flight is one of the more shameful moments of the PT-era Jedi Order. The guy was slightly more stable than his clone.

I'm wondering if it was actually the cloning process that sent Joruus loopy, or if the seed was well and truly there beforehand - courtesy of the donor cells.

I wonder exactly what happened between Outbound Flight and Heir to the Empire- (I think someone said that The Guardian was confirmed to exist in the recent SW encyclopaedia, and that The Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook statement had therefore been retconned).

Was C'boath cloned, as Thrawn & Pellaeon speculate, "early in the war"?

How much did he know about the Empire and the Emperor, given that he makes a few pronouncements about both?

think someone said that The Guardian was confirmed to exist in the recent SW encyclopaedia, and that The Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook statement had therefore been retconned).

Interesting, though I would have preferred that the C'baoth clone to have always been the guardian. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for the Emperor to have chosen C'baoth's clone as the guardian.

A typical dark jedi or dark side adept would look at the treasure trove of technology and military hardware in Mount Tantiss and realize he could whip up a clone army in very short order and then go on a conquest spree. Many of Palpatine's minions were competent and deadly but they had a tendency towards disloyalty and self aggrandizement.

But C'baoth's clone had certain unique views on power and authority, actually disdaining dominion over distant worlds he would never see or directly control. Although C'baoth''s clone had enough megalomania to spare, he was utterly uninterested in galactic conquest. But he was also vain and arrogant enough to brutally kill anyone who came to Wayland looking to exploit Mount Tantiss simply because he didn't want anyone moving in on his territory.

How very convenient for Darth Sidious that the person guarding his greatest treasures was a massively powerful dark jedi master who would never in a million years use those treasures against Darth Sidious himself. It seems so elegant, almost as if it were deliberately designed that way...