Does Excess Fat on Males Seem Feminine to Anyone Else?

I've come to view excess body fat as a kind of female secondary sex characteristic these days that certainly doesn't do much to enhance the manliness of those males in possession of it. I encounter a lot of overweight or obese males who seem to view their girth as being mostly muscle, but it's solely the result of sweets, sweetened beverages, breads and other foods that seem to be more in what I at least associate with the female realm. You can't really get fat from gnawing on carcasses and other manly eating practices.

Furthermore, the excess fat enhances the extent to which testosterone is aromatized into estrogen, making these men more feminine from an endocrine standpoint.

Maybe this an angle that could be used to point the uninitiated in the right direction....

It's true that breast - waist - hip ratio is a standard feature of attraction to women. But human sexuality is also highly psychological and cultural, its not all physical or biological. These days, as some men like thinner women, some men like curvy women. I personally like both. But theres still a preference for proportion amongst men, especially in the hips regardless. I think the body composition aims of women, are a little out from what men actually want generally.

I don't really think these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore their body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above.

I don't really these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore their body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above.

I don't really these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore there body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above.

Actually I think the less time thinking about society, or others judgements of you the better. Alexander the great, albert einstein, the early explorers, none of these people gave much weight to these things. They are the ones remembered, the ones who lived big, and didnt worry about it. I see being a social conformist, or a strongly judgemental person as an emotional weakness, something that hold you back in life, and limits you like a cage.

Admitedly, I have sexual physical preferences for women, which are most probably culturely and psychologically determined, but outside of that, I never really think about the appearance of others. I do find that I notice though, a fair bit, when people have a tendancy to frown, rather than smile. I find frowning alot pretty ugly.

i don't see this as offensive. travis may have worded his point a bit oddly, but i don't believe he meant it offensively. i agree with the basic idea here. some guys have man boobs. some things i've read indicate an over consumption of soy in that case.
but although some women are very toned ad muscular, most have the natural ability to be very fit and yet still have the shapely curvy figure that many men go gaga for. in my opinion, men should be fit and muscular, and women should be fit with soft and visually appealing curves.

Probably but I also think some fat seems to give you more energy to work with during a 25 minute title match. It could be that OR it could be that to get to an elite level you have to work your body harder then is healthy and excess body fat could be one of the ramifications. I know that some people say when they cut back exercise from 6 hard days a week to maybe 3-4 days they actually get leaner

It is insulting to suggest that excess fat is considered a female trait. Females have *more* body fat than men, but when it's an excessive amount, it's unattractive regardless of sex. Perhaps "weak" would be a better adjective than "feminine."

I think !Kung women, for example, are routinely 20-something% BF, but hunter-gatherer males would have almost never been up that high. 20-something% BF for a male is ridiculously common and most at that level these days could still be considered "skinny."

agreed! Does that mean I'm "manly" because I love to eat meat? I am a strong warrior woman, but I would not consider myself masculine.
but I think I what you're trying to say...a man with a potbelly makes him look like he's preggers.

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Answers

A curvy woman is sometimes pretty sexy. Body fat in certain places for woman is a marker of health and fertility. In women, fat on the breasts, hips, butt, and thighs is associated with healthier babies and better health outcomes in general. The "evolutionary" ideal women of course might not be as curvy as Holloway here, but she would not be a stick figure. She would have ample breasts, a "big butt," but a flat distinct waste. I see waaay too many women who are either waifs or have an apple shape without a waist. The last picture here is a hunter-gatherer woman displaying Steatopygia, a genetic disposition towards curviness that was sexually selected for in some tribes. Some anthropologists think that many paleolithic women might have had this based on art like that shown below.

Body fat is never a marker of health and fertility in men. I've seen some hunter-gatherer men with round tummies from bloating, probably caused by parasites or high fiber intake.

This is an evolutionary psychology position that I think is fairly well accepted.

It's true that breast - waist - hip ratio is a standard feature of attraction to women. But human sexuality is also highly psychological and cultural, its not all physical or biological. These days, as some men like thinner women, some men like curvy women. I personally like both. But theres still a preference for proportion amongst men, especially in the hips regardless. I think the body composition aims of women, are a little out from what men actually want generally.

agreed! Does that mean I'm "manly" because I love to eat meat? I am a strong warrior woman, but I would not consider myself masculine.
but I think I what you're trying to say...a man with a potbelly makes him look like he's preggers.

I think !Kung women, for example, are routinely 20-something% BF, but hunter-gatherer males would have almost never been up that high. 20-something% BF for a male is ridiculously common and most at that level these days could still be considered "skinny."

Ive noticed that at least in the fight and strength game the most "cut" guys are often not the best. Cain, Fedor, Shogun, BJ Penn and even Anderson Silva look far from a magazine cover model but they all are considered some of the best fighters alive. There are outliers like GSP or Pudzianowski but overall Id say the old sang of "cant judge a book by its cover" rings true.

Probably but I also think some fat seems to give you more energy to work with during a 25 minute title match. It could be that OR it could be that to get to an elite level you have to work your body harder then is healthy and excess body fat could be one of the ramifications. I know that some people say when they cut back exercise from 6 hard days a week to maybe 3-4 days they actually get leaner

I don't really these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore their body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above.

I don't really think these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore their body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above.

I don't really these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore there body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above.

If overweight men look more feminine to you it's probably because women naturally carry more body fat.

If you're thinking about it with regard to sweets, you need to start taking commercials less seriously. Guys eat sweets too. When you mention sugary drinks... honestly I associate women more with diet drinks. Whether that's actually true or not, I don't know, but I don't associate sugary drinks with women so much as with men, kids, and teenagers. And breads I associate with pretty much everything.

Paleo diets are already "marketed" to men as being "manly." I honestly think that's a stereotype and it's not going to do very well in the long run by feminizing overweight men.

Yes Op overweight men carry more estrogen and are in fact more womanly. I LOL at the fat guys who think they are muscular.. they are just deluding themselves from teh fact that they are greater than 20% bf

Yes, in general I agree. (Obviously there are exceptions.) It's not a slam against females, it's that overweight nonathletic males tend to get things like breasts and etc.

This appears to be even more true with the younger generation of males. Many of the overweight older males that I know are in jobs that require physical activity and most younger peoples jobs are not. (The older overweight males that I know are not extremely overweight except for the beer belly.) I can't help but wonder if it's a combination of increased estrogen intake/exposure/pollution (soy & plastics) and a decrease in testosterone enhancing activities.

Your arguments pertaining to feminine and masculine eating habits and appearance are completely and utterly circular. I laud your rather innocent bigotry and do agree with you on the personal view that excess body fat on men make them appear more feminized.

On July 4th we were at a lacrosse game and an individual sat down a couple of rows in front of us. Medium-long hair, fairly seriously overweight, and a pair of breasts that certainly put mine to shame. I had to poll my family, but the consensus was that it was a male. Definitely not masculine. Yecch.