Humans are flawed individuals. Some of us are more flawed than others. Most of us manage to deal with it without telling other people to kill themselves, because we believe that would be horrible, even when we don't especially like the other person. The point I was making by posting the neg I received had nothing to do with diverting blame. It was intended to speak to something deeper. And it's surreal that I have to spell that out. Although I suspect you still won't get it, because there's something quite "different" about our psyches.

If I ever had any doubt about the intent of the original post, that neg would have removed them.

But you log on to the internet and particular websites and email addresses from the same location repeatedly. Big Brother thanks you.

OK, now you're just desperately obsessing. Let's put each other on ignore and go on about our lives before the mods put us in time out.

Last edited by angelatc; 11-29-2012 at 11:47 AM.

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"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won."

"A 2011 belt is probably every bit as good as your 1997 chain. Nothing wrong with those cars, but materials technology has come a long way since 97.[/QUOTE]"

timing belts have to be changed at 75-125,000 miles , i would add the 240sx has a adjustable dist , rear wheel drive , easy to work on , mine weighs 2800# , 170hp , sun roof , auto , leather , all for about $5,000, not $30,000 .

also many new cars have vin specific ecm/ecu ( mine doesn't , 100$ on ebay ) , to flash a ecm on new models is $300-700 , new one about $1,800.

i think car mfr now days are making cars that cost so much to fix at $100/hr that people just kick them under the bus and buy a new car.

i think car mfr now days are making cars that cost so much to fix at $100/hr that people just kick them under the bus and buy a new car.

That's somewhat true, but the new cars diagnose themselves. Put it on a computer, diagnose, swap out a board that costs $400 and you're good to go. In the old days, the $400 would have gone to labor. We're not saving any money, but I don't think it costs more to repair them.

Some people just like new cars. Nothing wrong with that - makes the used car market more affordable.

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"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won."

I find it difficult to even begin shopping for used cars. Given the high prices for used cars, and tiny discounts for even 2-year old cars with 50k miles, I'd definitely be buying new right now if I had to buy a car tomorrow. In fact, my next car will likely be brand spankin' new. Not going to stomach 50K miles for 10% off. It's asinine.

not to make this a car forum , but one of the best things i have bought 2 wks ago was a -ultragauge- , about $80 , it monitors everything , shows codes if any are present , erase bad codes , read up on them , well worth the money .

I find it difficult to even begin shopping for used cars. Given the high prices for used cars, and tiny discounts for even 2-year old cars with 50k miles, I'd definitely be buying new right now if I had to buy a car tomorrow. In fact, my next car will likely be brand spankin' new. Not going to stomach 50K miles for 10% off. It's asinine.

Supply and demand. Hurricanes and cash for clunkers has reduced the supply of used cars.

Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

And on the demand side, people finally bought into the idea that you should "always buy a used car." Doesn't make sense to buy a used car with 50k miles when a new one with 0 miles costs $2,000 more.

Yep, and combine that with decreased income. More demand for used cars.

Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

Except as to the rule of apportionment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

Sub-prime auto lending is back in business so Im not surprised there's an uptick in car sales.

Repeating the same mistakes always yields different results. /sarc

Does the article differentiate between sales figures to the end user or is it based on a widely used method of calculating "sales" by only measuring how many cars the manufacturers ship to the dealers? Channel stuffing has been ongoing so the stat could be misleading without knowing which measure the "sales" figures come from.

Amazing how many cars you can sell if you finance it all and can offload the defaulted loans to the taxpayer.

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

There is no difference. The sentiment is the same. Basically, you started a fight and didn't like where it ended up, so now the other person is at fault. Grow up, you troll.

She's not a troll. Maybe she slammed you harder than needed, but that's not trolling.

Originally Posted by ILUVRP

"A 2011 belt is probably every bit as good as your 1997 chain. Nothing wrong with those cars, but materials technology has come a long way since 97."

timing belts have to be changed at 75-125,000 miles , i would add the 240sx has a adjustable dist , rear wheel drive , easy to work on , mine weighs 2800# , 170hp , sun roof , auto , leather , all for about $5,000, not $30,000 .

also many new cars have vin specific ecm/ecu ( mine doesn't , 100$ on ebay ) , to flash a ecm on new models is $300-700 , new one about $1,800.

i think car mfr now days are making cars that cost so much to fix at $100/hr that people just kick them under the bus and buy a new car.

I will agree that manufacturers could be focused on ease of production. I will agree that manufacturers may not care about ease of repairs if they expect to be the people repairing them. It is short-sighted, but possibly true in either case. That doesn't change the statement I made regarding material engineering.

I've rebuilt more than one motor, more than one transmission, and also worked in an auto factory. I'm not just talking shit I know nothing about. Your chain will need replacement at some point. Your particular car may have been well built from the beginning.

If you made a good purchase on a car, that doesn't refute any of the points I made. If it does, it's not clear to me.

We have allies many of you are not aware of. Watch the tube. Show this to your 30 and under friends. Listen to it. Even if you don't like rap, it has 2.7 million views.

I'm leaning towards buying new in 2014, just before the new CAFE rules begin to bite. I don't want to be part of the public guinea pigs, that beta test new technologies. Cars in the late 70s and early 80s were so pitiful when the manufacturers were trying to figure out how to cope as CAFE was first rolled out.

I'm OK with buying new since it is truly YOUR car and YOU control how it's maintained through it's life cycle. I got 10 years on my previous purchase, 12 on the current one. (I'm sure the manufacturers and the tax men would prefer I do it more often, naturally. )

The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other type of arms. The possession of these elements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to permit uprising, therefore, the heads of the provinces, official agents, and deputies are ordered to collect all weapons mentioned above and turn them over to the government.

Buying old muscle cars is what middle aged people do to recapture their youth. It's just silly.

I got my new G37 at an excellent price and would NEVER even consider trading it for an old corvette, mustang, camero, etc. I can go 0-60 in just over 4-seconds while sitting on heated seats in a car that gets 26MPG on a highway, listening to MP3s and a navigation system, experiencing a comfortable ride and being surrounded by airbags. There is literally no reason to prefer old cars, other than style and vanity. They're inferior to new cars the same way almost all old technology is inferior to new technology.

Indeed and they include the tracker chip for free. Enjoy.

I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,
he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes what you have to do is participate in political
action. -- Ron Paul

"We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

The people of the various provinces are strictly forbidden to have in their possession any swords, bows, spears, firearms, or other type of arms. The possession of these elements makes difficult the collection of taxes and dues and tends to permit uprising, therefore, the heads of the provinces, official agents, and deputies are ordered to collect all weapons mentioned above and turn them over to the government.

There is literally no reason to prefer old cars, other than style and vanity.

There is one reason. Not to "prefer" an old car, but to keep one around, as I do, and as I recommend my family and friends to do as well. That reason has nothing to do with style or vanity. It's purely for serviceability in a SHTF scenario. And when I say SHTF, I don't mean Mad Max. I mean SHTF where a failed currency results in commodity shortages, closed after-market businesses, and the inability to get anything serviced.

I have a couple of old used cars (70's) and an old used pickup. They're all in great condition, with no on-board computers. I can tune them up, do routine maintenance, and have an extensive stock of spare parts collected, all of which were cheap and plentiful, enough to keep each vehicle going for another fifty years. I can take every single part of them apart and put them all back together again in my sleep, with no specialized tools. I have a full spare engine and transmission for the truck, both of which I got for a song, and got a rebuilt blueprinted spare engine for one of the cars.

My cousin is using the truck on his property now. It works fine, lasts a long time, and I wouldn't get rid of it for anything, unless it entailed a cheap, superior replacement--and only along the lines listed above.

It may be nothing, and none of that may ever actually be needed for any emergency. But you never know, and I do like having them, and I do love things that work, and are USER SERVICEABLE. I also like the idea of cocking my snoot at a demand economy that pretends that we will always be able to throw away the old and buy new forever.

Most cars the past 15-20 years are tin can death traps. I'd rather have a 60s-early 70s muscle car with steel frame and body and a motor anybody can work on. If I get in a head on collission with a new car I know which one of us is walking away...probably even driving home still.

Back when I was in the fire service, if I arrived on the scene of an accident with hydraulic rescue tools and had to extricate a crash victim from a smashed up new car, or cut them out of an old car, the guy in the old car is getting out faster.

I don't know what the hell they're thinking, but new cars these days have so many freaking airbags it's almost unsafe, lol. We can't just cut into an airbag because they have pressurized canisters that deploy them. Then you think you've found another point you could get through, but unfortunately the car is a hybrid and there's a high voltage line you have to be careful not to cut. We train and train to keep up with the latest technology but no one wants to be sitting there at the scene of an accident trying to find schematics for the vehicle while the patient is bleeding out inside the car.

I gotta agree with others here. I think older cars are safer (except the Corvair, lol). Newer cars do better on crash tests where they speed up a car and run it into a wall head-on and the dummy lands his face in an airbag, but in the types of situations that actually kill people (like going off the side of an overpass and rolling a few times before coming to a stop, thanks to a tree), I'd rather be in a 40-year-old beast of steel.

Last edited by nobody's_hero; 11-30-2012 at 04:30 AM.

If something bad happens, we will be blamed. If something good happens, we will get no credit. If nothing happens, we will be forgotten.

You answered your own question. You drive a car with low mpg because it is very cheap or whatever reason you love the car. I don't hold it against you, though. You should have the choice to do that if you want.

----According to a recent study from Jato Dynamics, a leading provider of automotive business intelligence, U.S. cars emit 85 percent more carbon dioxide and consume twice as much fuel as European and Japanese cars. The average year-to-date fuel consumption figure for cars, minivans and SUVs in the U.S. market stands at 22.6 mpg, compared with 40.3 mpg in Europe and 40.6 mpg in Japan. Those are staggering differences, and they make us wonder why it will take American automakers until 2020 to reach a mandated average fuel-efficiency rating of 35 mpg, when European and Japanese automakers already do. (That's food for thought, folks.)----

i picked this from my early post , thats what i mean about getting out of big oil grips.

take the isuzu which i have had many , gm owned about 50% of the company , they were made in indiana , now no longer in america , they are being sold in europe and now getting close to 50 mpg .

why not here ?????

as far as the 240sx i have , changing the timing chain vs a belt , the 240 is rear wheel drive , very easy to change the timing chain.

i have had over 50 cars/trucks/motorcycles in my life , now when i see a chev super sport or dodge charger ( both of which i have had long ago ) , i see the front wheel drive on the new ones and they will be in the junk yards while the old ones will still be running.

i will offer a bit of advice to anyone buying a newer car , the timing belts will break , most cars now days have what is called a interference engine , means if the timing belt breaks the engine is distroyed . always buy a car that has a non-interference engine .

do not be fooled by epa mpg numbers , they are taken at 55mph , at 70-75 mph you will get 20-25% less mpg.

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