Jovankat wrote:There are absolutely people who think that they are more important than anyone else regardless of race and it's not a person's race that makes them less valuable just that they aren't that person. If however you scale out and see a trend in that the people who tend to think that way are privileged in a number of ways, including race then what you're quite probably looking at is structural racism. I think lots of people think that racism is only something an individual does deliberately and that is simply not true.

I recently enjoyed a great discussion with a co-worker who objected to the use of the term "race" at all. Said coworker felt that the term "race" was nothing more than an illegitimate term that was introduced by those in power (white folk) in effort to subjugate those not in power (at the time mostly non-white folk). The coworker, quoting a number of publications (which I immediately sought out and read), went on to say that biologically and genetically (you should all take note that I am clearly not a biologist, nor a geneticist) speaking there are more significant differences between certain different ethnic groups than there are between black and white people and to group humans into different "races" held no scientific weight.

And just to tie this back into the thread topic ... I think many of those feathered headdresses are absolutely breathtaking pieces of art (it's probably safe to say that one bought online might not fall into this category) and regardless of their potential offensiveness, they remain beautiful.

Cheers

Last edited by smilemore on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I'm fucked. I've caught the dusty virus ... and I want to spread it around.

My objective is to meet interesting strangers and curate some into my long term network. I'm all about conversation.

On the other hand, some people are performers and their objective is to see the response of other people, and some even aim for an offended response. Then there are people who use costuming to get into a mental state that is not very interactive or conversational, especially costumes that obscure the face.

BM is an experiment in throwing over 60,000 mostly strangers together in a dense city for a few days. If you are going to connect with people, you have an instant and people will be drawn into that connection, or move on, based partially on costume. And the right costume-clothing for you ideally puts you in an outgoing and optimistic mood.

Of course we have demonstrated Godwin's Law here, but if you look up the numbers, the number of indigenous Americans who perished as a result of the arrival of Europeans surpasses what happened in Europe. It's just that it is not taught in school here, and it is not generally acknowledged in society. And where it is acknowledged, the offensiveness of appropriation may not be acknowledged. Which this discussion demonstrates. From a brief visit to Australia, I think they are ahead the US, and Canada is behind the US in their thinking.

Personally, I'm not planning at a BM or anyplace else to converse with any Nazis, people wearing headdresses, people with faces covered, or zombies and clowns for that matter.

smilemore wrote:I recently enjoyed a great discussion with a co-worker who objected to the use of the term "race" at all. Said coworker felt that the term "race" was nothing more than an illegitimate term that was introduced by those in power (white folk) in effort to subjugate those not in power (at the time mostly non-white folk). The coworker, quoting a number of publications (which I immediately sought out and read), went on to say that biologically and genetically (you should all take note that I am clearly not a biologist, nor a geneticist) speaking there are more significant differences between certain different ethnic groups than there are between black and white people and to group humans into different "races" held no scientific weight.

I'm not fully cognizant of the particulars of this position, but I am aware that it exists. Unfortunately, we assign people differences based on things like skin, hair, and eye color, that are very visible. (If we assigned people to group based on blood-type, just imagine how hard it would be.) Further, these things are usually "skin deep" (as are the cultural differences that also serve as markers of in or out groups.)

I'm kind of a hard ass. I think that we all have (or at least the americans amoung us) racist scars as a result of growing up in a very racist society. That stuff can rear up in odd ways, unpredictably. It doesn't make us bad people, but it does mean that we should maybe look at our reactions and interactions with people from out groups and see if we're seeing stereotypes or people.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

^ the dude dressed as a Nazi was most likely with Gate.I forget his name,...Hans, Hienz,...obviously something German and he drove a VW rabbit too, I think...played the part really well and stuck with it. A total dickhead and he was basically in charge of D-lot. He was the D-lot Nazi and I was very very glad to get outta D-lot and laugh about how sucky a situation it was. ...but just like a movie when you just HATE a character, you realize you hate the character because the actor succeeded.

thirt33n wrote:^ the dude dressed as a Nazi was most likely with Gate.I forget his name,...Hans, Hienz,...obviously something German and he drove a VW rabbit too, I think...played the part really well and stuck with it. A total dickhead and he was basically in charge of D-lot. He was the D-lot Nazi and I was very very glad to get outta D-lot and laugh about how sucky a situation it was. ...but just like a movie when you just HATE a character, you realize you hate the character because the actor succeeded.

I love that town

Indeed, he might have been with Gate (I thought so) but I questioned my memory. I've never been to D-Lot, though, and I still had the misfortune of meeting him twice in one Burn (and he was still in the costume several days later). Really one of my least favorite people on playa of all my years there.

I didn't hate him because he succeeded at anything. He seemed kinda clueless, actually.

I hate him because he wanted me to enjoy his schtick, and I found that odd.

*** 2017 Survival Guide ***"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger

I can see the point he's trying to make, but it doesn't much matter. I've said this before, but my first burn, when I happened by Barbie Death Camp, it's hard to convey my rush of thoughts. So disrespectful, insulting to some maybe? And certainly not politically correct in the least. But, I loved it. It sort of codified the whole spirit of burning man. Nothing's sacred, and nothing should be taken seriously. I think I talk about that camp more than any other. (And the founder is Jewish BTW)

Savannah wrote:

Bless wrote:

Savannah wrote:A guy dressed like a Nazi messed with me at Greeters a few years back; I thought he was an irredeemable creepy asshole. Oh well, right?

What's more offensive/racist/insensitive: wearing Nazi regalia or wearing a Native American warbonnet?

Why do you care what I think?

Why would we compare the two? Does something happen to the loser?

JKhttp://www.mudskippercafe.comWhen I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

Jovankat wrote:There are absolutely people who think that they are more important than anyone else regardless of race and it's not a person's race that makes them less valuable just that they aren't that person. If however you scale out and see a trend in that the people who tend to think that way are privileged in a number of ways, including race then what you're quite probably looking at is structural racism. I think lots of people think that racism is only something an individual does deliberately and that is simply not true.

I recently enjoyed a great discussion with a co-worker who objected to the use of the term "race" at all. Said coworker felt that the term "race" was nothing more than an illegitimate term that was introduced by those in power (white folk) in effort to subjugate those not in power (at the time mostly non-white folk). The coworker, quoting a number of publications (which I immediately sought out and read), went on to say that biologically and genetically (you should all take note that I am clearly not a biologist, nor a geneticist) speaking there are more significant differences between certain different ethnic groups than there are between black and white people and to group humans into different "races" held no scientific weight.

And just to tie this back into the thread topic ... I think many of those feathered headdresses are absolutely breathtaking pieces of art (it's probably safe to say that one bought online might not fall into this category) and regardless of their potential offensiveness, they remain beautiful.

Cheers

A few months back my boss asked me to apply for a spot on the governors council on mental health. The application asked me what race I am. I wrote "human". I have not heard back yet

Jovankat wrote:There are absolutely people who think that they are more important than anyone else regardless of race and it's not a person's race that makes them less valuable just that they aren't that person. If however you scale out and see a trend in that the people who tend to think that way are privileged in a number of ways, including race then what you're quite probably looking at is structural racism. I think lots of people think that racism is only something an individual does deliberately and that is simply not true.

I recently enjoyed a great discussion with a co-worker who objected to the use of the term "race" at all. Said coworker felt that the term "race" was nothing more than an illegitimate term that was introduced by those in power (white folk) in effort to subjugate those not in power (at the time mostly non-white folk). The coworker, quoting a number of publications (which I immediately sought out and read), went on to say that biologically and genetically (you should all take note that I am clearly not a biologist, nor a geneticist) speaking there are more significant differences between certain different ethnic groups than there are between black and white people and to group humans into different "races" held no scientific weight.

And just to tie this back into the thread topic ... I think many of those feathered headdresses are absolutely breathtaking pieces of art (it's probably safe to say that one bought online might not fall into this category) and regardless of their potential offensiveness, they remain beautiful.

Cheers

A few months back my boss asked me to apply for a spot on the governors council on mental health. The application asked me what race I am. I wrote "human". I have not heard back yet

Exactly!

I'm fucked. I've caught the dusty virus ... and I want to spread it around.

Head of the Cherokee Nation in the 80's was a guy named John Ross , he was 1//256 cherokee and was their Chief. He could wear a headdress at one powwow andpeople who didnt know him would give him shit a bout it. So ya never know if someone has the right to wear something or not. People that were offended by him are just plain simple racist . They judged him by his skin color without knowin the man.

First, I could give a squat about politically correctness, I think it is ruining our country with everyone being over sensitive.But the what to wear question--- 2014 was my first burn. I am 70 years old, married 50 years and have wanted to go to Burning Man for years. I got the chance last year to go. Daughter,soninlaw and others I knew were there. Wife isn't into stuff like this and didn't go.I too had worried about what is acceptable to wear, especially as an old guy. To cut to the chase, I spent a lot of time in afghans my wife made from sheets. I also spent time just me as I was born. I had been to nude camps, so didn't mind being nude around others. The whole time there I never got the impression anyone was disapproving of what I wore or didn't wear. I even went to enter camp nude once. If people disapproved at least they were (politically correct) enough not to say anything or show it. I never felt judged by my age, what I wore, or my personal beliefs.So in my case I experienced the burn as it is supposed to be. So of all the worries you can have about Burningman, the way you dress should be the least of them.Do It. Your way. People will love you for it.Ps, I have a ticket for this year too. Now I just have to figure out what to wear.

I tend to wear jeans and t-shirts in the default world. Fairly bland. At Burning Man I wear very bright colored tie dye shirts, mismatched socks, painted shoes and a colorful buff. Chance to be something different. Last year I heard someone say "Look how colorful that guy is." Had the effect I wanted. Unfortuately I will probably be wearing jeans and a t-shirt this year UNLESS I'm able to get a ticket. No luck on the 18th

You know it's going to be a bad day when you jump out of bed and miss the floor.

So Middle-Eastern headgarb like that is OK? Good. I have several of those I bought when I was working in Turkey 25 years ago, and I bought them because they were highly practical for going sightseeing in the desert, not because I was trying to make a political statement (the several is so I could launder the sweaty ones and still have clean ones to wear). Given the reported weather at BM, it would be nice to have garb that has been proven functional for hundreds of years in such climates. Of course, I don't dare use them in defaultworld these days (no matter how hot the summer sun gets).

I wear a keffiyeh almost every day out there - great head covering, and when tied the UAE way it's a quick dust-mask as well (it's my go-to daytime dustmask). It's also one of the few duskmasks that works with my beard. There's a reason they're worn all over the Middle East - they work. Plus Burners just won't care.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist