I'm diggin those US palm plate carriers. 200 bucks and it includes soft body armor? No wonder they sold out. Would be a great high speed low drag rig

Wow look at all the multicam. That's too elite for me unfortunately.

Yeah, they look like a great deal. When are they going to be in stock? Who is retailing them?

__________________
"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." - Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackston, W. Virginia Board of Education v. Burnette, 1943

Anyone know of any places that has any deals or good prices on Eagle (or similar design/type) Molle vests. I don't need one that has provisions for a plate, since I don't plan on running body armor. I just want something with a full vest, to allow me to have more options.

TAD supports Green Peace and refuses to support any organizations that support our troops. Not wounded warriors, not nothing.
They have openly admitted to tailoring their gear toward the MIL/LE retail market and have openly said they don't support the US/LE. In short, Fudge TAD!

TAD supports Green Peace and refuses to support any organizations that support our troops. Not wounded warriors, not nothing.
They have openly admitted to tailoring their gear toward the MIL/LE retail market and have openly said they don't support the US/LE. In short, Fudge TAD!

WRONG!!!
From Patrick Ma - TAD owner

"the world is a wide and varied place with many varying views. speaking for myself, i will NOT be pigeon holed to any one other's "idea" of who i should support, and some of that attitude is reflected in my company.

as a business owner i stay away from "obvious" or volatile agendas with the affectations of "who some one thinks" i should support, trumped up hype, or the bluntly uninformed and blind reactionaries.

i believe in the golden rule and "do onto those". fighting the "good fight" as how I define it, and for the rest of, as you define yours. i am not going to bludgeon any one with my ideas and think that is the "only way", and if you disagree, then point my finger and say "you're wrong"

several of us here at tad are prior service men and LE. our support thru our products, and donations to orgs such as wounded warriors speak for themselves, but unlike many companies who jump up and down and wave flags to say "look at me!" to further advertise their company and commercialize truly altruistic acts. what we do is matter of fact, we do it because it is the right thing to do. we don't go around tooting our horns about it.

as for my support of various wildlife conservation groups, it is something i believe everyone can benefit from the work they do. tad gear has allowed me to participate in these endeavors and it is something i am proud of and find great interest in. human beings are currently the top of the specieal chain and we have the power to be stewards, be it for animals, or people that need our help when they are unable to help themselves.

just like any group, organization, NGO, non-prof, etc, some operational philosophies i can agree with with, others i don't. as for the various wildlife NGOs listed on our site, i agree with most of their objectives.

autonomy is one of my most important values. as long as i am sane, and don't hurt others out of malice and hate, don't over govern me, don't curtail my freedoms, don't tell me how to live my life. don't tread on me and i won't tread on you.

as for green peace, they have some elements which go over the top. just like some democrats, and some republicans, christians, muslims, jews, whites, blacks, hispanics, native peoples, asians, martians, whatever. i am not going to blanket or generalize an entire "group" from some on the fringe. how small minded and dangerous that attitude is.

extremism exists as and in splinter groups, and almost always have an agenda which does little good to the world and public at large.

i keep green peace on the links list b/c it acts as a small banner to let myopic people know that you can't try and define me, or force your agenda on my company. yeah, its gets a rise of out of some people. i find it amusing. it shakes it up a bit, and maybe it might get some to examine their own limitations and brain capacity.

the rest of the groups have good work to pursue.

my view of the world carrying a m16 around at 18, is very different than now at 44.

the tad gear brand is NOT as 2 dimensional as many of the overtly tactical brands out there. do some of them make good stuff, absolutely. we like to think of ourselves as a bit more studied in our presentation. many folks get it, and many don't. that's ok. i don't expect nor do i want to be all things to all people. that's a very silly way to look at the world and how one affects it.

we value strength and honor. we value intelligence and culture. all of which do not function very well without the other in a balanced and just society. tad gear is about the warrior poet, not the barbarian hun. some brands out there under estimate their patrons and only know how to promote and see the conan view. that's OK too, but its not us.

quality and design are our priorities in what we produce. many styles have a tactical and martial capability which gives our products an edge.

where you use it, from striking down murderous religious extremists, criminals, or saving a baby whale, its cool with me. you're doing good work in my book.

everyone has a context to operate from, where they feel relevant. this is mine. america is about freedom, and the freedom to choose. tad gear is far from the only game in town. we don't ever expect to be the homogenized walmart of field gear, nor is it our intent. if what we do resonates with our customers great, if not, we can agree to disagree. i am proud to know that my customers are intelligent, honorable fighting men, AND that they are also compassionate and extend the helping hand to those who are in need. for our many other customers, who have never carried a weapon under the flag, they too can be honorable in the good work that they do; doctors, scientists, farmers, men of conscience, etc from many walks of life.

i see most of them as men (and women too) who share or at least understand those very values i stated above. they all can think for themselves and turn fear of the unknown around by edifying themselves and employing some of the most effective tools or weapons of all to win any fight, knowledge and information.

cheers,"

__________________We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. Ronald Reagan

It was late at night when I was driving home when he pulled me over. Here is how it went.

Officer shines light into vehicle and then jumps from the shear volume of everything. Walks up to the vehicle with his hand on his holster and asks for my license and registration. The whole time I didn't move my hands from the steering wheel until he told me to do so. I handed him my info with a military id. He then relaxed and asked what I had. I told him and then we sat there and talked for a good 5 minutes about guns. He was a really nice guy. He then walked over to his car and looked me up. He saw I had a clean record and came back and said, "Have a great night!"

I was going 10mph over the speed limit by a hospital. He should have given me a ticket. Only in Montana will guns help you get out of a ticket....

*edit* I should have given him a card and offered the PD a discount on anything they need.haha

__________________Magpul Gear Contact us for the best prices!
406-880-6133 or 406-754-2397
www.mtnarmory.com

It was late at night when I was driving home when he pulled me over. Here is how it went.

Officer shines light into vehicle and then jumps from the shear volume of everything. Walks up to the vehicle with his hand on his holster and asks for my license and registration. The whole time I didn't move my hands from the steering wheel until he told me to do so. I handed him my info with a military id. He then relaxed and asked what I had. I told him and then we sat there and talked for a good 5 minutes about guns. He was a really nice guy. He then walked over to his car and looked me up. He saw I had a clean record and came back and said, "Have a great night!"

I was going 10mph over the speed limit by a hospital. He should have given me a ticket. Only in Montana will guns help you get out of a ticket....

__________________We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. Ronald Reagan

Too all you guys with the Armor plates and chest rigs...Please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you need that? Are you guys LE/Mil, Do you compete in matches, or do you just feel safer knowing you have that gear when SHTF?

Again please don't take offense, I'm just trying to gain some insight into what your motivation was to spend all that money on LE/Mil type gear if you don't do entries, or patrol in a LE/Mil Capacity.

Too all you guys with the Armor plates and chest rigs...Please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you need that? Are you guys LE/Mil, Do you compete in matches, or do you just feel safer knowing you have that gear when SHTF?

Again please don't take offense, I'm just trying to gain some insight into what your motivation was to spend all that money on LE/Mil type gear if you don't do entries, or patrol in a LE/Mil Capacity.

Please don't take this the wrong way...
With that frame of thinking why would anyone need any AR style rifles if we are not in Law Enforcement/Mil? We should all just have 1 pistol and (MAYBE!) 1 pump action shotgun for home defense right?

Have you been hanging out with the Brady bunch????

__________________
"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty;now we bleat﻿ like sheep for security."

Too all you guys with the Armor plates and chest rigs...Please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you need that? Are you guys LE/Mil, Do you compete in matches, or do you just feel safer knowing you have that gear when SHTF?

Again please don't take offense, I'm just trying to gain some insight into what your motivation was to spend all that money on LE/Mil type gear if you don't do entries, or patrol in a LE/Mil Capacity.

Some reasons I can think of:

If you're taking a lot of classes it's not a bad idea to at least wear soft armor. Ricochets are a higher risk as you're often close to steel targets and berms that have rocks. It's not a huge risk, and wearing a vest comes at the expense of comfort in warm weather...but on the other hand, a fragment coming back at you at high speed could ruin your day. Or your life.

Keep in mind that certain types of classes such as CQB and shoothouses may require armor/plates and helmets.

I don't think 3rd party NDs are a big risk in classes or at the range but for people who are extra cautious/extra risk averse, adding plates may make sense.

SHTF? Who knows if that will ever happen. But far be it from me to dictate someone else's plan for dealing with it.

Then there's the whole airsoft and/or "I want to look cool" crowd. I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy and I figure they're helping support the gear makers so I say let them have at it.

If you're taking a lot of classes it's not a bad idea to at least wear soft armor. Ricochets are a higher risk as you're often close to steel targets and berms that have rocks. It's not a huge risk, and wearing a vest comes at the expense of comfort in warm weather...but on the other hand, a fragment coming back at you at high speed could ruin your day. Or your life.

Keep in mind that certain types of classes such as CQB and shoothouses may require armor/plates and helmets.

I don't think 3rd party NDs are a big risk in classes or at the range but for people who are extra cautious/extra risk averse, adding plates may make sense.

SHTF? Who knows if that will ever happen. But far be it from me to dictate someone else's plan for dealing with it.

Then there's the whole airsoft and/or "I want to look cool" crowd. I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy and I figure they're helping support the gear makers so I say let them have at it.

Dear God! Buy body armor PLEASE!! Its dirt cheep in USA.
Preferably, get the police concealable kind (class II) then continue to work on it and get class III A military armor and some rifle plates, just as you do when you start buying guns.

You’ll end up with 2 or 3 sets of armor which are great to have for family members and spares. Just so you know, I got so desperate about body armor I ordered it from USA through internet (bulletproofme.com), I ended up paying a total of nearly 600 USD for body armor that costs 200 USD in USA. Buy it while you still can.

When the SHTF you’ll end up wearing it, believe me. I don’t wear mine all day long but I do wear it when I have to go some place dangerous, deal with people I don’t trust, or when I have to go teach Architecture Representation late at night, and must travel through a much dangerous road at 12 PM.

__________________
‎"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."
--James Madison
'Letter to Edmund Pendleton', 1792

If you're taking a lot of classes it's not a bad idea to at least wear soft armor. Ricochets are a higher risk as you're often close to steel targets and berms that have rocks. It's not a huge risk, and wearing a vest comes at the expense of comfort in warm weather...but on the other hand, a fragment coming back at you at high speed could ruin your day. Or your life.

Keep in mind that certain types of classes such as CQB and shoothouses may require armor/plates and helmets.

I don't think 3rd party NDs are a big risk in classes or at the range but for people who are extra cautious/extra risk averse, adding plates may make sense.

SHTF? Who knows if that will ever happen. But far be it from me to dictate someone else's plan for dealing with it.

Then there's the whole airsoft and/or "I want to look cool" crowd. I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy and I figure they're helping support the gear makers so I say let them have at it.

this made me chuckle. You will never see me telling someone not to spend money on something cool if they can spare the cash.

Personally, being someone who has spent days, weeks, months, wearing body armor, I cannot imagine, nor will I ever, wear it at a public range or class, at home, or anywhere that I am not being told to. Thats stupid. I have spent countless days at ranges, anything from 5m to 800m, in close proximity to literally millions of fired rounds, grenades, 25mm cannons, and have never, ever seen, nor even heard of, any injury caused by ricochet, ND, ect. We wear out plate carriers at ranges, but dont bother putting plates in them most of the time. EDIT: and that is only because RSO's, who are usually civilians or POG's tell us to. A lot of guys just throw on a LBV and hope no one looks closely

I'm glad you did mention the "I want to look cool crowd", because I believe somewhere between 98% and 99% of those who spend their own money on it fall into that crown.

__________________
Jobs I have had, payed for by your tax dollars:
-Sandbag-filler who carries around a 203
-Sandbag-filler who carries around a 249
-Sandbag-filler who carries around a radio
-That guy, who when given a single, normal M4, hides in the Bradley, and sleeps.

__________________
“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” — Robert A. Heinlein

“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds” — Samuel Adams

and have never, ever seen, nor even heard of, any injury caused by ricochet, ND, ect.

I have heard of three, listed below. The first two included pictures so I consider them credible. It's worth noting however that none of them were struck in an area where armor or plates would have helped, which drives home the point that armor is not a 100% guarantee against getting killed or having a life-altering injury if you get shot.

- There's a guy here on calguns who was almost killed by a richochet fragment that hit him in the throat.

- On another forum, a member was accidentally shot in the arm at the end of a class. Another student in the class had brought a semi 1919 to demonstrate, did not follow the proper procedures for clearing the chamber afterwards, and had an ND when he was casing it. The injured student was hit in the upper arm but luckily it was a through and through and missed the bone completely.

- On yet a third forum, a member was shot in the leg at a square range. Someone was uncasing a rifle which was apparently loaded and had an ND. The gentleman on the receiving end was sitting in a chair behind the firing line, observing for another shooter, when he was shot.

In the classes I have taken the instructors have not worn armor or plates other than when they were doing a T&E. That should tell you that the risk is very low. Does that make it a bad idea? No. I have never had my house burn down but I still have insurance for it.

Please don't take this the wrong way...
With that frame of thinking why would anyone need any AR style rifles if we are not in Law Enforcement/Mil? We should all just have 1 pistol and (MAYBE!) 1 pump action shotgun for home defense right?

Have you been hanging out with the Brady bunch????

An AR style rifle has many uses beside LE/Military use...hunting, target shooting, home defense, etc...Body armor has one use stopping a bullet that is fired in your direction(which doesn't happen to most civilians) Hey man sorry if I offended you I was just saying that I don't understand the use an average civilian would have for such heavy duty body armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega13device

Some reasons I can think of:

If you're taking a lot of classes it's not a bad idea to at least wear soft armor. Ricochets are a higher risk as you're often close to steel targets and berms that have rocks. It's not a huge risk, and wearing a vest comes at the expense of comfort in warm weather...but on the other hand, a fragment coming back at you at high speed could ruin your day. Or your life.

Keep in mind that certain types of classes such as CQB and shoothouses may require armor/plates and helmets.

I don't think 3rd party NDs are a big risk in classes or at the range but for people who are extra cautious/extra risk averse, adding plates may make sense.

SHTF? Who knows if that will ever happen. But far be it from me to dictate someone else's plan for dealing with it.

Then there's the whole airsoft and/or "I want to look cool" crowd. I'm a live-and-let-live kind of guy and I figure they're helping support the gear makers so I say let them have at it.

Understood...I guess if I ever start taking classes I will have to consider this

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyRooks

having been muzzle sweep several times during a handgun/carbine class prompted me to buy a body armor.