ltdanman44:I wonder what would happen in America if the military stepped in and suspended America's constitution.

Much more effective if you chip away at it over several decades. Nobody seems to notice as much

If they suspended it so they could round up a stadium's worth of bankers, mortgage securities CEOs, and anyone else who heads a company that was granted immunity for being "too big to fail", I suspect the country would be quite fine with it.

IdBeCrazyIf:Seems like only the extremists are upset over the military stepping in, and sounds increasingly like the moderates and liberals are telling them to go farking fly a kite.

Yes and no. The MB actually is the moderate islamist organization in the middle east. Their ouster in Egypt negatively impacts the Brotherhood orgs in Syria, Tunisia, and Jordan. The various jihadist factions are now pointing to Cairo and saying-- "See, democracy won't allow a legitimately elected Islamic org to stay in power. We have to go kill people and seize power if we want it." The tough spot the military has put itself in- Even though they weren't big fans of the MB, they have now given legitimacy to large-scale unrest as a form of political participation and weakened their position for governing /maintaining order going forward. The next civilian branch formed may face the same protests when the economy or social landscape gets rough. Does the military then remove them and further weaken their position? Rinse, repeat every 6 months until the country becomes a chaotic protest culture that devolves into civil war? Democracy is chipping away at the military's control of Egypt. They need a civilian branch they can work with co-operatively and one they are willing to defend in the face of widespread protests and economic stress.

the most frustrating thing about this situation is that every american has an opinion of what happened without actually knowing what happened. 'gee i read a snippet on the news that definitely wasn't missing context or facts! let me tell everyone how wrong/right/stupid this situation/person is'as a note...the military is not at fault here, and are a positive force in this scenario. the fact they stepped-in actually allows normal citizens to stop doing checkpoints themselves. Morsi made his own bed, essentially trying to turn his 'democracy' into absolute power, and voiding many positive things that Egyptians had worked for.

ltdanman44:I wonder what would happen in America if the military stepped in and suspended America's constitution.

Much more effective if you chip away at it over several decades. Nobody seems to notice as much

Hahahahahahahahahah! *pant pant* Hahahahaha!

Wow, you are funny!

The Military has no dog in the fight aside from a stable society. Morssey wasn't giving that, he was giving Islamist tyranny wrapped in the fig leaf of elections, drawn up in haste after the ouster of a long time strong man. The brothers promised something that was so far from what they delivered that it was a full out lie and people are PISSED. I've been pissed at politicians before, but at least I knew when they were campaigning that I'd be pissed and they generally delivered that when in office.

This shiat is complicated, but still, the best thing they can do is get everyone calmed down and have elections that are free from intimidation and fair. The brothers are no longer saviors and will no longer get an outsized influence. If the followers didn't think of themselves as martyrs and willing to kill for their cause, I'd say to let them go. But they are nuts. The last thing anyone needs in this equasion is a weakened Egyptian Military because they seem to be the only people who can maintain order in this shiatstorm.

It's going to be a horrible time in Egypt. Many will die or blow themselves up.

dugitman:Yes and no. The MB actually is the moderate islamist organization in the middle east. Their ouster in Egypt negatively impacts the Brotherhood orgs in Syria, Tunisia, and Jordan. The various jihadist factions are now pointing to Cairo and saying-- "See, democracy won't allow a legitimately elected Islamic org to stay in power. We have to go kill people and seize power if we want it." The tough spot the military has put itself in- Even though they weren't big fans of the MB, they have now given legitimacy to large-scale unrest as a form of political participation and weakened their position for governing /maintaining order going forward. The next civilian branch formed may face the same protests when the economy or social landscape gets rough. Does the military then remove them and further weaken their position? Rinse, repeat every 6 months until the country becomes a chaotic protest culture that devolves into civil war? Democracy is chipping away at the military's control of Egypt. They need a civilian branch they can work with co-operatively and one they are willing to defend in the face of widespread protests and economic stress.

Yes and no. The MB actually is the moderate islamist organization in the middle east. Their ouster in Egypt negatively impacts the Brotherhood orgs in Syria, Tunisia, and Jordan. The various jihadist factions are now pointing to Cairo and saying-- "See, democracy won't allow a legitimately elected Islamic org to stay in power. We have to go kill people and seize power if we want it." The tough spot the military has put itself in- Even though they weren't big fans of the MB, they have now given legitimacy to large-scale unrest as a form of political participation and weakened their position for governing /maintaining order going forward. The next civilian branch formed may face the same protests when the economy or social landscape gets rough. Does the military then remove them and further weaken their position? Rinse, repeat every 6 months until the country becomes a chaotic protest culture that devolves into civil war? Democracy is chipping away at the military's control of Egypt. They need a civilian branch they can work with co-operatively and one they are willing to defend in the face of widespread protests and economic stress.

Yes, but it was an Islamist organization in an increasingly secular country. Egyptians looked around at Afghanistan and Iran and decided that that wasn't acceptable. They tried the democratic process, appealing to the officials in charge and appealing to the courts. They got nowhere so they went to the streets. The military benefits from a stable society and did what they did the last time people went to the streets. The funny thing about the Military in Egypt is that they have no ideology. They simply want everyone to chill the fark out. WHY? Because they are both a military and the largest diversified corporation in the country, running hotels, manufacturing, etc. Unrest is bad for business.

plewis:Yes, but it was an Islamist organization in an increasingly secular country. Egyptians looked around at Afghanistan and Iran and decided that that wasn't acceptable. They tried the democratic process, appealing to the officials in charge and appealing to the courts.

Yeah. I'm not faulting the Egyptian people or military for how this all went down. The MB was the largest(and organized) civilian organization in last year's election. The people took the perceived lesser of 2 evils electing Morsi. When he jogged to the right, the secular factions got understandably nervous and angry. While I'm not sure anything could have been done differently, the result is an even more fractured political landscape in which the military has been weakened. No one within the Tamarod seems to have any traction for widespread support. The next 6 months will determine stability of Egypt for the next decade or more- and I'm becoming less confident the result will be positive.

ltdanman44:I wonder what would happen in America if the military stepped in and suspended America's constitution.

damn, if only we could be so lucky. The military is our only hope against the police state that has been created, and the megacorp dick-sucking government that the police state protects.

That the military culture is pretty hard to change is one of the reasons they've been gutting it for a while, replacing it with contractors. I mean really, why the fark are we hiring outside contractors to be security details for military, at a much higher cost?

plewis:Yes and no. The MB actually is the moderate islamist organization in the middle east. Their ouster in Egypt negatively impacts the Brotherhood orgs in Syria, Tunisia, and Jordan. The various jihadist factions are now pointing to Cairo and saying-- "See, democracy won't allow a legitimately elected Islamic org to stay in power. We have to go kill people and seize power if we want it." The tough spot the military has put itself in- Even though they weren't big fans of the MB, they have now given legitimacy to large-scale unrest as a form of political participation and weakened their position for governing /maintaining order going forward. The next civilian branch formed may face the same protests when the economy or social landscape gets rough. Does the military then remove them and further weaken their position? Rinse, repeat every 6 months until the country becomes a chaotic protest culture that devolves into civil war? Democracy is chipping away at the military's control of Egypt. They need a civilian branch they can work with co-operatively and one they are willing to defend in the face of widespread protests and economic stress.

Yes, but it was an Islamist organization in an increasingly secular country. Egyptians looked around at Afghanistan and Iran and decided that that wasn't acceptable. They tried the democratic process, appealing to the officials in charge and appealing to the courts. They got nowhere so they went to the streets. The military benefits from a stable society and did what they did the last time people went to the streets. The funny thing about the Military in Egypt is that they have no ideology. They simply want everyone to chill the fark out. WHY? Because they are both a military and the largest diversified corporation in the country, running hotels, manufacturing, etc. Unrest is bad for business.

So what happens when a democratically elected Egyptian government seeks to divest the military from its privileged economic position?

IdBeCrazyIf:Seems like only the extremists are upset over the military stepping in, and sounds increasingly like the moderates and liberals are telling them to go farking fly a kite.

From TFA:Mr. Morsi's party, formed by the Islamists of the Muslim Brotherhood, won nearly half the seats in the last parliamentary election, and more conservative Islamist groups known as Salafis won nearly a quarter more.

In our first trip to Iraq in the early 90s, the military was pretty self-sufficient with most things, logistics aside. A mere decade later - not so much. Converting the contractors to regulars is one thing, but why were the regulars turned into contractors in the last 10-20 years in the first place?

IamAwake:In our first trip to Iraq in the early 90s, the military was pretty self-sufficient with most things, logistics aside. A mere decade later - not so much. Converting the contractors to regulars is one thing, but why were the regulars turned into contractors in the last 10-20 years in the first place?

sn0wblind:the most frustrating thing about this situation is that every american has an opinion of what happened without actually knowing what happened. 'gee i read a snippet on the news that definitely wasn't missing context or facts! let me tell everyone how wrong/right/stupid this situation/person is'as a note...the military is not at fault here, and are a positive force in this scenario. the fact they stepped-in actually allows normal citizens to stop doing checkpoints themselves. Morsi made his own bed, essentially trying to turn his 'democracy' into absolute power, and voiding many positive things that Egyptians had worked for.

Excepting yourself, of course. You know exactly what went down, making your opinion the only valid one.