At a university, hm? Well, say you're walking to the bathroom or another certain location and a group of thugs decide to corner you and begin to become physical? How do you defend yourself if you are outnumbered?

Being outnumbered may be a little advanced for the students just joining the class, but I'll bring it up during our next class. I agree that it's a very good situation for a self-defense class to prepare for.

Situational awareness is something that we've been working on as well, but I think that reiterating the point, how to look around, and so on is always going to be helpful.

Did that happen to YOU with the car? That's crazy man, I'm glad you're okay if that was you.. or whoever that was.

Three hours. That just blows my mind, but I believe it. Anyway, I digress again.

No I was just ... not even a witness so much as a bystander after the fact. I had to talk down the witness (a close friend of mine ) from going vigilante on the culprit's ass. We went and saw movie and were back in time to see the cops finally show up. One of them was dumb enough to say "he can't of gone far" while standing beneath a bus stop sign. It was like something out of satire.

edit: I appear to have goofed the quote tag here by using the spoiler tag. I apologize for that... I've attempted to manually fix it as much as I can.

It's true that a surprise attack puts you at a disadvantage (by its very definition), but some surprise attacks can be defended against.

Our sucker punch scenario had the attacker grab our shoulder, yank us around, and throw a punch at the face. The defender didn't know which shoulder would be grabbed nor when the attacker would do it. There was no audible or physical warning. The defender simply stood waiting for the attacker to move, and they did so quickly.

There is, of course, still the small advantage of knowing that an attack is going to come at some point, but the effect was still fairly good in that you're standing there not knowing when the attack will come or from which side.

As it turns out, this attack was easily defended against by bending the knees (in a sort of squat) while throwing both fore arms up at an angle next to your face. This deflected the blow from the attack and had the.... benefit ... of occasionally elbowing the attacker at a sensitive location on their arm. In fact, I nailed the attacker at the same spot on the arm that another defender had struck, and I'm twice the height of the other defender. Impressive, but unfortunate for the attacker.

This didn't provide much time for the defender, but it did provide enough time to attack the face or throat, which were the easiest targets from this position, or the solar plexus or groin area. I don't recommend the last two locations though.

As we say in class, it doesn't look pretty but it works.

edit: I'm still tired from work and I can't seem to type straight. Typos are to be expected at this point.

Situational awareness is something that we've been working on as well, but I think that reiterating the point, how to look around, and so on is always going to be helpful.

Did that happen to YOU with the car? That's crazy man, I'm glad you're okay if that was you.. or whoever that was.

Three hours. That just blows my mind, but I believe it. Anyway, I digress again.

No I was just ... not even a witness so much as a bystander after the fact. I had to talk down the witness (a close friend of mine ) from going vigilante on the culprit's ass. We went and saw movie and were back in time to see the cops finally show up. One of them was dumb enough to say "he can't of gone far" while standing beneath a bus stop sign. It was like something out of satire.

edit: I appear to have goofed the quote tag here by using the spoiler tag. I apologize for that... I've attempted to manually fix it as much as I can.

It's true that a surprise attack puts you at a disadvantage (by its very definition), but some surprise attacks can be defended against.

Our sucker punch scenario had the attacker grab our shoulder, yank us around, and throw a punch at the face. The defender didn't know which shoulder would be grabbed nor when the attacker would do it. There was no audible or physical warning. The defender simply stood waiting for the attacker to move, and they did so quickly.

There is, of course, still the small advantage of knowing that an attack is going to come at some point, but the effect was still fairly good in that you're standing there not knowing when the attack will come or from which side.

As it turns out, this attack was easily defended against by bending the knees (in a sort of squat) while throwing both fore arms up at an angle next to your face. This deflected the blow from the attack and had the.... benefit ... of occasionally elbowing the attacker at a sensitive location on their arm. In fact, I nailed the attacker at the same spot on the arm that another defender had struck, and I'm twice the height of the other defender. Impressive, but unfortunate for the attacker.

This didn't provide much time for the defender, but it did provide enough time to attack the face or throat, which were the easiest targets from this position, or the solar plexus or groin area. I don't recommend the last two locations though.

As we say in class, it doesn't look pretty but it works.

edit: I'm still tired from work and I can't seem to type straight. Typos are to be expected at this point.

If you know that an attack will come in some certain form, that doesn't constitute itself as a surprise attack at all. The sucker punch scenario is thereby a moot point, when you're habituating yourself for just that scenario with yourself training for just that reaction. I would rather eliminate any and all unforeseeable element for a surprise: blind-spots that are created by predictable patterns.

I'll formulate a surprise attack scenario based on just that principle, and see if you can devise a defense strategy for such an attack: your attacker will be close-in on you from the outskirt of your own peripheral field of vision:
The attack will be aimed at any exposed vital part of yourself in relation to your body position, you'll have no prior warning sign for the timing of such attack, and your attacker's goal is to stop you by any means necessary to do so.

I am not a big fan for woman to use, karate for defense it more used as an offensive weapon. Weight plays a huge factor in this type of martial art and many years of training hard training to over come this obstacle. For a woman I would recommended Kong-Fu is better suited and takes advantage of the weight difference between men and women. Now I have used a the Basic of Kong-fu to use it as a offense attack just by goat-ting a male to come at me. Making a male losing his temper and judgment him far more vulnerable to be taking down and you can walk away.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have worked in male dominated industries all my life I never saw another woman in my field until ten years ago. And that was in home repair work. But times change and many women are in the fields that I was in. A woman should learn self defense no matter what they do or how they live.

In our karate class we have been tasked with coming up with real world scenarios in which you will need to defend yourself. We have covered being grabbed from behind or by the shirt collar, getting sucker punched from behind*, and someone (probably a drunk?) throwing a hay maker.

Before someone mentions guns, all scenarios related to guns are out of the question. Short of wearing specialized gear and / or having advanced military training, there isn't much that you can do against a gun. If someone pulls a gun on you then you do what they say, or you get shot. It's really that simple.

The setting:

This particular karate class takes place on campus at our university (though they do have the option of going to the dojo should they wish, but I digress).

The goal:

We will present our self defense scenario to the intermediate level class. We will then choose a scenario and practice defending against it. Then, during a different class, we will present the scenario to the beginning level class.

The situation should be realistic and plausible. The goal is to teach everyone - including absolute beginners - how to handle a situation that may actually happen to them.

This is a small university town with a lot of parties but very little serious crime, but that's not to say that bad things don't happen here.

Thank you for any thoughts that you share. :)

So you want self defense sitatutions? Ok then, Having someone on top of you (on the ground). Some guy (bigger/stronger) choking the crap out of you from the front. One guy choking you from the back (rear naked choke). Be put in a full nelson. Side head lock. wrist grabs. Also try just a straight up fight (like sparring, because sometimes you cant run).

I also attend a self defense class on campus (its jujutsu and Taekwondo). We mainly learn jujutsu (japanese wreslting), cause fighting and being offensive is really the best self defense you can learn. A strong punch to the face, kick to the nuts, eye gouge, and good background in grappling will take you far in basic hand to hand combat. But u also need experience which is the most important key factor. If u have never been in a self defense situation/fight, you dont know how u will react. Though if you train with some maliciousness and aggressiveness then you will be better prepared for a malicious and aggressive attacker. And i wont even get into the phychological aspects of it, if you dont have mastery over your fight or flight response- you are screwed reguardless of what you know. peace over war

At a university, hm? Well, say you're walking to the bathroom or another certain location and a group of thugs decide to corner you and begin to become physical? How do you defend yourself if you are outnumbered?

OP would easily say, "I put my back against the wall so no one would jumped me from behind. Then, immediately disable whoever is in front of me. Since I'm in the karate class, we have skills where we could defend and attack enemies with one hand."

I really don't like people who got a little exposure in a fighting gym and now they think they know how to fight properly. Everyone has a [fight] plan till they got hit in the face.
Since OP is a karate boy, take out his comfortable fighting stance by tackling him on the ground then ground and pound.

In my case, facing the same scenario, I'll be, "oh crap. oh crap oh crap." I'll curl/shrink to a turtle then defend and protect my face and organs.
I might forget to shout for help. That would suck. =T

"Someone tackled you on the ground and either do a kimura or a neck crank on you?"

Though she called it a "karate class", its really a self defense class that might be using "karate". (though i think its just a self defense class, Karate is used as a general term for martial arts to the ignorant masses.)

The average thug, robber, or drunken asshole isnt going to do a judo take down on you, pass your guard go for a little ground and pound until he can pull off a Kimura on you. This isnt the UFC. In the streets, the ground is the last place you want to be, because his 6 friends will come and kick the crap out of you. Fights arent always going to be one on one, and you might not have enough room to roll around either (not bad if u start out on top, but get taken down yourself and not have enough room to turn over and your screwed).

I really don't like people who got a little exposure in a fighting gym and now they think they know how to fight properly.

I dont think thats the case here. I honestly believe she was just asking for help on her self defense project. peace over war

1. Being sucker punched is often a game over situation. Unless the person misses or has the muscle mass of a 2 year old, one clean hit to the chin or face is lights out, no matter how big you are.

2. The idea of talking about self defense in a karate situation is pretty lol. Karate, like most martial arts classes, won't help you in any real life situation. Fights go along this line: Person throws a punch. Opponent dodges or gets it. One of them will attempt to grapple and get the other person on the floor. Mad rage, which looks like gayness, ensues.

3. For the individuals who claim "Carry a gun, knife, taser, etc", you guys have a higher chance of coming out of your fights unscratched, but you also have a higher chance of facing death. If your opponents know that you possess a weapon of sort, they'll either back down or fight harder (even possibly using your weapon against you) which leads to a higher chance of death compared to just being knocked out.

4. If you're outnumbered, you should basically say "GG". You have only two options at this point: run or get your ass beat. If there is no escape, your best bet is to brace yourself to protect your vital organs and head. If you can run, just run.

5. If you win a fight, congratulations you look cool in front of your friends. Now, try to look cool in front of the judge in your trial for assault and battery.

6. Self defense classes that claim "Only practice this in life or death situations" are bullshit. In life or death situations, you shouldn't even fight. Give the guy holding the knife/gun your Iphone, wallet, and watch. The person mugging your don't want to have to use the gun - it's a scare tactic to keep you from fighting back. Sure, there is a chance you may beat up that person and even send him to prison while you maintain your possession, but you also have a chance of dying in slow and agonizing pain.

7. If someone is angry/crazy enough to want to kill you just for the sake of killing you, again, it is basically good game. Unless luck is on your side where you get the opportunity to run or call for help, you will pretty much die no matter the situation.

8. The only way you can really utilize your "Martial arts moves" is when you're defending someone else and you have the jump. However, at this point, someone who simply knows how to punch will be just as effective as your fancy kung-fu moves.

9. Girls, your chance of getting raped by a mad rapist stranger is slim to none. You should be instead be more worried about your boyfriend or friend raping you. Your self defense moves are moot because a kick to the balls will drop any male instantly.

Tell this to your sensei, who is not very bright and only want his students to fantasize about situations they should not be: Don't carry weapons with you and either avoid fights, run, or brace yourself. Better yet, print this and give it to him.

1. Not really. I've been smashed a few good times in the face without being knocked out. Given the fact that they have to punch upwards to hit me, but still one clean punch doesn't equal knockout. Especially in a fight, hits are rarely clean.
2. Yes most martial arts nowadays are sport competitions with nice little rules about clean hits etc, but there are martial arts that will help out in a real fight. And most martial artisits will probably be in far better shape then your average person.
3. Um no. If you carry a taser, gun or pepper spray. Use it? One hit from a taser anywhere is bringing the person down and pepper spray is even worse if it hits properly. Gun is just.... gun... Most people will back off if you pull a weapon on them and they're unarmed unless they're stupid.
4. Yes if you're facing a group best plan is to run. But if you have to fight, it's not even close to GG. You're assuming that this group of people have actually fought before and are at least semi organized and not just a bunch of douchebags bunched together cause they're afraid of one on ones. I've seen it before, hell I've beaten a group before, it's honestly not that hard. Granted I was massive compared to them and they were idiots, but still I'm just saying.
5. Yeah no ever heard of something called self-defense? I'm not sure where you come from, but if they start the fight and you end it (non-leathily and without maiming of course) you get off a lot easier then they do.
6. True
7. Or if they're a dumbass and have no weapon you could beat their ass in, but say they have a gun, then your point is valid.
8. No, not really. Judo can be used readily in a fight along with shit loads of other martial arts.
9. True
Meh.

1. Being sucker punched is often a game over situation. Unless the person misses or has the muscle mass of a 2 year old, one clean hit to the chin or face is lights out, no matter how big you are.

2. The idea of talking about self defense in a karate situation is pretty lol. Karate, like most martial arts classes, won't help you in any real life situation. Fights go along this line: Person throws a punch. Opponent dodges or gets it. One of them will attempt to grapple and get the other person on the floor. Mad rage, which looks like gayness, ensues.

3. For the individuals who claim "Carry a gun, knife, taser, etc", you guys have a higher chance of coming out of your fights unscratched, but you also have a higher chance of facing death. If your opponents know that you possess a weapon of sort, they'll either back down or fight harder (even possibly using your weapon against you) which leads to a higher chance of death compared to just being knocked out.

4. If you're outnumbered, you should basically say "GG". You have only two options at this point: run or get your ass beat. If there is no escape, your best bet is to brace yourself to protect your vital organs and head. If you can run, just run.

5. If you win a fight, congratulations you look cool in front of your friends. Now, try to look cool in front of the judge in your trial for assault and battery.

6. Self defense classes that claim "Only practice this in life or death situations" are bullshit. In life or death situations, you shouldn't even fight. Give the guy holding the knife/gun your Iphone, wallet, and watch. The person mugging your don't want to have to use the gun - it's a scare tactic to keep you from fighting back. Sure, there is a chance you may beat up that person and even send him to prison while you maintain your possession, but you also have a chance of dying in slow and agonizing pain.

7. If someone is angry/crazy enough to want to kill you just for the sake of killing you, again, it is basically good game. Unless luck is on your side where you get the opportunity to run or call for help, you will pretty much die no matter the situation.

8. The only way you can really utilize your "Martial arts moves" is when you're defending someone else and you have the jump. However, at this point, someone who simply knows how to punch will be just as effective as your fancy kung-fu moves.

9. Girls, your chance of getting raped by a mad rapist stranger is slim to none. You should be instead be more worried about your boyfriend or friend raping you. Your self defense moves are moot because a kick to the balls will drop any male instantly.

Tell this to your sensei, who is not very bright and only want his students to fantasize about situations they should not be: Don't carry weapons with you and either avoid fights, run, or brace yourself. Better yet, print this and give it to him.

I half way agree to some of these points, but the other half are over generalizing.

1. Being sucker punched is often a game over situation. Unless the person misses or has the muscle mass of a 2 year old, one clean hit to the chin or face is lights out, no matter how big you are.

It takes more than a "Clean hit" to the chin to KO someone. You to hit it with enough force and speed that the brain slams against the head. And if you aren't trained to do that, only a lucky rare clean shot will KO your opponent. Most of the time it will just leave a bruise or a swollen eye.

Now being stabbed/shot or grabbed from behind in a rear naked choke is a Game Over situation. there is very little time to recover or even break out of a good choke hold. You have about 5 seconds and its lights out. If the defender knows what he's doing, you have about 7 seconds, if the attacker knows what he's doing you have about 2 seconds.

2. The idea of talking about self defense in a karate situation is pretty lol. Karate, like most martial arts classes, won't help you in any real life situation. Fights go along this line: Person throws a punch. Opponent dodges or gets it. One of them will attempt to grapple and get the other person on the floor. Mad rage, which looks like gayness, ensues.

This is one of those kind of yes and no questions. I will be the 1st to admit that in a college course of one semester, you wont learn anything of any real valuable in martial arts, and if you dont practice it throughout your life, you will not remember it. I take a self defense course in jujutsu in college. I learned what i learned by practicing it every day and took the class 4 times as well as cross trained off and on campus outside of class. Basicially spent hours outside of class doing this stuff. And its the only real way to learn it (still do).Plan to take it throughout my life, even when i join the miliatry (they train in jujutsu as well).

For the second part of that statement, most martial art classes are not geared toward self defense situations. They may skim over the material, but most are either for sport/fighting, or just traditional practice of technqiues. Which can all be essential in a self defense situation, but never fully prepare you for it (because self defense isnt fighting).

And fights can go along many lines, it really depends on whos fighting. I have never been taken to the ground in my fights outside of jujutsu class. And i have never taken guys to the ground in a street fight. The ground is the last place you want to be in a street fight.

3. For the individuals who claim "Carry a gun, knife, taser, etc", you guys have a higher chance of coming out of your fights unscratched, but you also have a higher chance of facing death. If your opponents know that you possess a weapon of sort, they'll either back down or fight harder (even possibly using your weapon against you) which leads to a higher chance of death compared to just being knocked out.

The best argument for not carrying a weapon is the legal reprecautions (sp?) that may come with it. If you have a weapon on you, there's a good chance you know how to use it. I even talked my mom into learning how to use her gun. A weapon vs an unarmed man gives the weapon user a huge advantage if they know how to use it. You dont even need that much training. Pick up a knife and fool around with it. I promise you its just an extension of your hand. If you can punch, you can use a knife and deal some serious damage to a guy dumb enough to attack you unarmed. If you are willing to hurt or even kill your attacker, there is very little he can do about it unarmed. And the same is true vise versa. If you are unarmed fighting a guy with a gun/knife. You cant do anything but buy time or risks your life for a disarm.

4. If you're outnumbered, you should basically say "GG". You have only two options at this point: run or get your ass beat. If there is no escape, your best bet is to brace yourself to protect your vital organs and head. If you can run, just run.

True enough, but if u have a weapon on you, it can also be of some use. Most people arent going to risks thier lives to take yours. Even a gun with only 6 bullets will scare off 30 unarmed people trying to hurt you. Because no one wants to die just to kick your ass.

5. If you win a fight, congratulations you look cool in front of your friends. Now, try to look cool in front of the judge in your trial for assault and battery.

Assuming it ever reaches the court. In a life or death fight, its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. If you feel your life is endanger, kill the asshole. Deal with what ever comes next later. Some times in life you have to choose between death and jailtime.

6. Self defense classes that claim "Only practice this in life or death situations" are bullshit. In life or death situations, you shouldn't even fight. Give the guy holding the knife/gun your Iphone, wallet, and watch. The person mugging your don't want to have to use the gun - it's a scare tactic to keep you from fighting back. Sure, there is a chance you may beat up that person and even send him to prison while you maintain your possession, but you also have a chance of dying in slow and agonizing pain.

No self defense class i know of argues with that point. They mainly are talking about the druken asshole at the bar armed with a wine bottle trying to hurt you. He doesnt want your cash, he wants to beat your ass and you have to return the favor.

7. If someone is angry/crazy enough to want to kill you just for the sake of killing you, again, it is basically good game. Unless luck is on your side where you get the opportunity to run or call for help, you will pretty much die no matter the situation.

It could be, then again if you are armed- a shot to the head kills all- angry, crazy, or sane. You can also eye gouge to blind or just fight to kill him. Be that angry or crazy guy who wants to take HIS life. I bet you would if you were protecting your kids or your mother. Why not do it for yourself?

8. The only way you can really utilize your "Martial arts moves" is when you're defending someone else and you have the jump. However, at this point, someone who simply knows how to punch will be just as effective as your fancy kung-fu moves.

I dont really get what your trying to say here, but every move is a "martial art move", including a punch to the face. Or as Bruce Lee put it "A punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick". In the end its effectiveness boils down to the individual and the situation. A simple punch to the face will end a lot of conflicts that you get into. Using proper technique and having the ability to follow it up will send a lot of attackers running away looking for an easier target. Martial art style isnt as important as who uses it and where.

9. Girls, your chance of getting raped by a mad rapist stranger is slim to none. You should be instead be more worried about your boyfriend or friend raping you. Your self defense moves are moot because a kick to the balls will drop any male instantly.

A kick to the balls is a "defense move". And it doesnt work on everybody, just most guys and girls.

Tell this to your sensei, who is not very bright and only want his students to fantasize about situations they should not be: Don't carry weapons with you and either avoid fights, run, or brace yourself.

I agree with all of it except the weapons part. You need to have a legal weapon on you. Even if it is as simple as mace or a flashlight with jagged edges. It will save yur life as long as you know how to use it. Because you may not be able to avoid or run from every fight/fighter. And its better to fight back rather than bracing yourself. Bracing yourself is like saying you're going to curl up in a ball and hope they stop hitting you b4 you die. I wouldnt put my life in the hands of 5 assholes who couldnt give a dam about weather i live or die. If i cant run or avoid it, im going to fight it. And there's a good chance i will be having a knife on me at least. peace over war

People are trying to knock you down...best move...DEMON MODE...use your teeth finger nails anything...RAGE !!!!!!!!
bite a guy's nose off and eat it to invoke FEAR. Focus your fingers into a centered point and jabb the person in the stomach which punctures the skin and rip his guts out. Then go completly insane and vomit on the other guy. Go ahead if you have some sh*t in ya, throw it at the attackers' faces, chances are they will be so grossed out they will run,Then run because you are trying to defned yourself.

That should work.
Please tell me if this is too insane, but hey it works, your trying to save your life.

People are trying to knock you down...best move...DEMON MODE...use your teeth finger nails anything...RAGE !!!!!!!!
bite a guy's nose off and eat it to invoke FEAR. Focus your fingers into a centered point and jabb the person in the stomach which punctures the skin and rip his guts out. Then go completly insane and vomit on the other guy. Go ahead if you have some sh*t in ya, throw it at the attackers' faces, chances are they will be so grossed out they will run,Then run because you are trying to defned yourself.

That should work.
Please tell me if this is too insane, but hey it works, your trying to save your life.

You can't predict a real self defense situation, anything can happen but its really good practice to make them up in the dojo and work out techniques. 14 years of experience in Karate and Taekwondo, and I can safely say anything goes whatever comes to mind at the time (have been in a number of real SD situations) my brain just reacts and tells my body what to do and what techniques I should use. It comes with a hell of a lot of time to drill techniques into your mind.

You can't predict a real self defense situation, anything can happen but its really good practice to make them up in the dojo and work out techniques. 14 years of experience in Karate and Taekwondo, and I can safely say anything goes whatever comes to mind at the time (have been in a number of real SD situations) my brain just reacts and tells my body what to do and what techniques I should use. It comes with a hell of a lot of time to drill techniques into your mind.

When you're habituating yourself for just that scenario with yourself training for just that reaction, you're developing a predictable pattern. I would rather eliminate any and all unforeseeable element for a surprise: blind-spots that are created by predictable patterns.

I'll formulate a surprise attack scenario based on just that principle, and see if you can devise a defense strategy for such an attack: your attacker will be close-in on you from the outskirt of your own peripheral field of vision:
The attack will be aimed at any exposed vital part of yourself in relation to your body position, you'll have no prior warning sign for the timing of such attack, and your attacker's goal is to stop you by any means necessary to do so.

The real beauty of my approach is to hide your attacker in plain sight; you'll see it there, but you have no idea just how close it gets until it's too late for yourself to react. What's more, your martial arts experience alone doesn't change the fact that you're still human with limited scope of depth around the edge of your peripheral vision. And my aim is to exploit that human weakness of yours.

You can't predict a real self defense situation, anything can happen but its really good practice to make them up in the dojo and work out techniques. 14 years of experience in Karate and Taekwondo, and I can safely say anything goes whatever comes to mind at the time (have been in a number of real SD situations) my brain just reacts and tells my body what to do and what techniques I should use. It comes with a hell of a lot of time to drill techniques into your mind.

When you're habituating yourself for just that scenario with yourself training for just that reaction, you're developing a predictable pattern. I would rather eliminate any and all unforeseeable element for a surprise: blind-spots that are created by predictable patterns.

I'll formulate a surprise attack scenario based on just that principle, and see if you can devise a defense strategy for such an attack: your attacker will be close-in on you from the outskirt of your own peripheral field of vision:
The attack will be aimed at any exposed vital part of yourself in relation to your body position, you'll have no prior warning sign for the timing of such attack, and your attacker's goal is to stop you by any means necessary to do so.

The real beauty of my approach is to hide your attacker in plain sight; you'll see it there, but you have no idea just how close it gets until it's too late for yourself to react. What's more, your martial arts experience alone doesn't change the fact that you're still human with limited scope of depth around the edge of your peripheral vision. And my aim is to exploit that human weakness of yours.

I'm quite aware of my mortality, I'm just saying, in the past its been like second nature to me and it should be to all fighters, what you're showing there is a diagram, not a real scenario, its all in my mind where it belongs and I honestly cannot predict what I'll do until I do it. However, spar with me and I'll be able to give you an answer.