I think it is about personal smell/flavor. And I really do believe the ability to detect cattiness and dankness is genetic to some degree. For me, simcoe is all cat-pee and I will avoid using it. In fact, I know of award-winning commercial beers that generously use Simcoe and I nearly gag when smelling/tasting, while the person next to me is in hop euphoria. I am not arguing with those that love the aroma and flavor. I'm sure that's what they experience. So, long story short, use your own judgement. And there are a lot of commercial beers to help with Simcoe research

I agree with the cattiness comments. It smells like a dirty liter box to me…but it is popular nonetheless. I think if you are careful with it and pair it well with some other hops, specifically amarillo and citra as other have said, it can be drinkable. I think it a personal preference. Try it out and see what you think.

I get more of a pine/citrus thing. It's definitely a unique hop and it is strange that so many people either love it or hate it. There doesn't seem to be much of a gray area.

But Simcoe definitely goes well with either Chinook or Amarillo, or both. One of my favorite hop combos I use in my black IPA is Cascade, Chinook, Simcoe. It's nice. Also the same combo as New Belgium's Ranger, come to find out. That's a solid IPA.

As posted earlier I wonder if there could be a genetic thing, like how some people perceive the smell and taste of cilantro. I love it (and Simcoe), but some people perceive cilantro as a disgusting plastic aroma and flavor. Simcoe is definitely polarizing like that.

Seems like some of the discussion I have seen about Summit which can have any onion or garlic flavor/aroma. I enjoy most beers that I have tried which use Summit. I don't know much about Summit but doesn't the adverse characteristics have have something to do with how/when it is harvested? Could it be something similar for Simcoe?

Could it be a "terroir" kinda thing, like the onion/garlic perception of Summit? I have gotten batches of Summit where that was overwhelming and others where it was non existent. The explanation I have been given was that it depends on growth conditions. Could it be the same kind of thing with Simcoe?

How do you know what I smell? And how do we all know we are smelling/tasting the same things? As I said, I don't doubt that others only get awesome smells from Simcoe, but I get a totally different experience. To me,this means there has to be a genetic component. And I am sure that these catty smells will vary from batch to batch, but I have drank the same beer next to others that get zero cattiness, and all I get is urine. Sad, but at lease there are plenty other hops out there for me to enjoy!

Could it be a "terroir" kinda thing, like the onion/garlic perception of Summit? I have gotten batches of Summit where that was overwhelming and others where it was non existent. The explanation I have been given was that it depends on growth conditions. Could it be the same kind of thing with Simcoe?

This might make sense except I believe Simcoe is a proprietary variety and only grown on one farm.

How do you know what I smell? And how do we all know we are smelling/tasting the same things? As I said, I don't doubt that others only get awesome smells from Simcoe, but I get a totally different experience. To me,this means there has to be a genetic component. And I am sure that these catty smells will vary from batch to batch, but I have drank the same beer next to others that get zero cattiness, and all I get is urine. Sad, but at lease there are plenty other hops out there for me to enjoy!

Okay, but if you'd never heard anyone else describe it as "catty" (which that description drives me up the wall), would you have come to the same conclusion on its description? Some descriptions people use are crazy. Bready, doughy, earthy, spicy...I get. But catty? Might be a genetic thing, but there is certainly no ammonia in your hops. And I'm sure they don't burn your nose either when you smell them.But either way, I think I'm complaining to a brick wall here. You smell what you smell. The only constant is the thing you're smelling. Simcoe smells like Simcoe, regardless of what you perceive. This reminds me of the Matrix...

Could it be a "terroir" kinda thing, like the onion/garlic perception of Summit? I have gotten batches of Summit where that was overwhelming and others where it was non existent. The explanation I have been given was that it depends on growth conditions. Could it be the same kind of thing with Simcoe?

This might make sense except I believe Simcoe is a proprietary variety and only grown on one farm.

Okay, but if you'd never heard anyone else describe it as "catty" (which that description drives me up the wall), would you have come to the same conclusion on its description? Some descriptions people use are crazy. Bready, doughy, earthy, spicy...I get. But catty? Might be a genetic thing, but there is certainly no ammonia in your hops. And I'm sure they don't burn your nose either when you smell them.But either way, I think I'm complaining to a brick wall here. You smell what you smell. The only constant is the thing you're smelling. Simcoe smells like Simcoe, regardless of what you perceive. This reminds me of the Matrix...

I don't understand your point. Whenever we describe tastes and smells aren't we always trying to compare it to other things that gave us similar experiences? When I smelled cat pee it had NOTHING to do with other peoples experiences, but the smell to me best compared to times when I have smelled cat pee. In the end, EVERY taste and smell we experience is relative, and so that's the only way we can describe it to others.

Could it be a "terroir" kinda thing, like the onion/garlic perception of Summit? I have gotten batches of Summit where that was overwhelming and others where it was non existent. The explanation I have been given was that it depends on growth conditions. Could it be the same kind of thing with Simcoe?

This might make sense except I believe Simcoe is a proprietary variety and only grown on one farm.

Simcoe is proprietary. It is grown on at least 3 farms according to the Hopunion Hop Variety Handbook. On a video, Vinnie Cilurzo sais he uses Simcoe differently (boil, dry hop, etc) depending on which farm it was grown on.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 11:07:59 AM by hopfenundmalz »

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Jeff RankertAnn Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP CertifiedHome-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Could it be a "terroir" kinda thing, like the onion/garlic perception of Summit? I have gotten batches of Summit where that was overwhelming and others where it was non existent. The explanation I have been given was that it depends on growth conditions. Could it be the same kind of thing with Simcoe?

This might make sense except I believe Simcoe is a proprietary variety and only grown on one farm.

Simcoe is proprietary. It is grown on at least 3 farms according to the Hopunion Hop Variety Handbook. On a video, Vinnie Cilurzo sais he uses Simcoe differently (boil, dry hop, etc) depending on which farm it was grown on.

I don't have a "bow down" emoticon.

How can we know as consumers what farm ours was grown on? Are they all close to each other (same climate, similar soil, etc) or is one in Utah and the others in Washington?

Could it be a "terroir" kinda thing, like the onion/garlic perception of Summit? I have gotten batches of Summit where that was overwhelming and others where it was non existent. The explanation I have been given was that it depends on growth conditions. Could it be the same kind of thing with Simcoe?

This might make sense except I believe Simcoe is a proprietary variety and only grown on one farm.

Simcoe is proprietary. It is grown on at least 3 farms according to the Hopunion Hop Variety Handbook. On a video, Vinnie Cilurzo sais he uses Simcoe differently (boil, dry hop, etc) depending on which farm it was grown on.

I don't have a "bow down" emoticon.

How can we know as consumers what farm ours was grown on? Are they all close to each other (same climate, similar soil, etc) or is one in Utah and the others in Washington?

From memory, the farms are, Carpenter, Loftus, and Perrault. I don't know the exact locations of those. I know that hops are grown near Moxee, Toppenish, and from Sunnyside to Prosser. So different sections of the valley.

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Jeff RankertAnn Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP CertifiedHome-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!