ECON: Working women almost certainly caused the credit crunch

Originally posted by soficrow
Unfortunately, anything can be manipulated. And usually is.

FYI - Before "feminism," women were legally prevented from having jobs. So widows and their children, unmarried mothers and their children, the
children of rapists, cads and various other walking dildos were condemned to poverty and slow starvation.

Do you really think it's fair to blame the victims? And create them?
.

Are you talking specifically about America here? If so, I've never heard of this. Can you point me to some sources? I'd be interested to read more
about this.

In England, long before 'feminism', the suffragette movement and social reformers that happened to be women but are now seen a 'feminist'
reformers, women worked in many industries such mining, mill-working, hatting &c.

Plus, I don't know if you've noticed, but women can only do so much housework and definitely need other things to do with their time - which does
include going on the occasional shopping crusade, so where do you expect that extra money to come from with only one income??

No greater example of a woman who must have been raised by the "YOU MUST OWN THIS!" TV. Needs and wants.

and....just how much time do you think a women would have to spend with their children as she washed her family's clothes the old fashioned way, made
the candles, sewed their clothing, baked their bread, tended the garden, weaved the fabric to sew the clothes, and on and on??

if anything, the fact that this is all done for us now has the more negative effect on the kids....back then, the kids were right in there with mom
and dad, working their little tails off to provide the necessities. now, they have lots of idle time to think up new and better ways to cause
trouble!

I said feminism served their purposes; that being purposes of
uncontrollable consumerism driven by corporate masters - a state
in which we all are...

I guess I'm saying that ideas can become a two-ended sword.

...and I said anything can be manipulated - and usually is.

So we agree.

Q: Given that our economy is based on uncontrollable consumerism, do you think that removing working women from the equation will change the driving
mechanism of our economy? Or just slow down the predictable effects and thus, delay the inevitable fallout?

We are to blame for buying into the must have mind set. We are to blame for basing our self worth on wealth.

When I first read the article I was angry, it was my initial reaction as a strong, intelligent working woman. How dare he!

Then after I'd taken a few seconds to calm my emotions I realized that the basic premise of the article is one I agree with.

We can all talk about about how we are equal but the truth is, we aren't. We are different.

We've been encouraged all our lives to to become more "equal" to be like men, to work, to fight, to drink to give up our femininity in the pursuit
of some misguided idea of being equal when biology dictates that we are different.

I have a job. I work mainly with other women. A majority choose to work so they can continue on that destructive mantra of buy buy buy. When I get
pregnant I will quit my job and take on the most important job of all, that of raising children.

Who you are, why you matter, what you are worth has nothing to do with how much money you have, or don't have. Yet we live in a society that says you
are a better person if you come back to work right after you have your baby. We live in a society that says home ownership is the end all and be all
of success, damn the consequences.

I didn't like the tone of the article. Everyone is looking to blame someone, lest they be forced to look at themselves and take responsibility.
However I do agree with the premise that our society took a significant hit when working moms became the norm.

Increased money supply leads to increased demand for goods, without the corresponding increase in supply, which leads to inflation, at least in the
short term.
But I don't see how it causes a credit crunch. People make their own choices to use credit or not. Lots of two income families live debt free with
house paid off and are doing well. Two incomes doesn't have to equal living beyond your means.

I agree with the break down of family values part, but I thought more women started working because they had to. I think as the economy moved from a
more industy based to a consumer based that men weren't able to find the high paying jobs as easiley and so women had to start working. Thats just my
opinion though

Originally posted by whitewave
Perhaps this time we should fire all the men and let them stay home with the kids, clean house, cook the meals, etc. ad infinitum. This will free up
the work force to accept women into "useful" positions like firefighting and arresting people.

How about we at least be realistic? You ever try and carry a 300lb+ person down a ladder? Get trapped in a room with the entire structure burning out
of control and exit through an outside wall with an axe only to find its brick on the other side and then start over on another wall?

We need some reasonable thought into this not some pie in the sky if she/he can do it so can I.

Do I have the same nurturing skill as a mother? Do I have that magic touch mom has to make the bad go away? I can come close and maybe be better than
some but not than most. Can I breast feed? No I don't/cant.

I am not saying women should not work outside the home, but the world would be a better place if more understood the beauty of raising and nurturing
the human race the most noble of all jobs.

Actually, I was being sarcastic. What irked me about the article was the "useful jobs" comment. This lack of valuing "women's work" is one of
the main reasons women fled to the paying jobs in droves.

I happen to consider that raising decent human beings is the most important job on the planet; not a paid position because the work is priceless.

No, I've never carried a 300# person up a ladder through a fire and couldn't if I wanted to. However, if they lived with me, I could keep them from
becoming 300# by regulating their diet and then they might pull their own a** up the ladder.

Your turn now. Have you ever been told you need to be in a hospital or you're going to die; too weak to even roll over in bed when one position
becomes uncomfortable and then have to get up and take care of 3 small needy children? Come up with nutritious, color-coordinated, inexpensive meals
(3 a day) that don't require you to stand up and cook/prepare for hours? Change diapers, wipe snotty noses, referee petty arguments with the wisdom
of Solomon, bathe them, lay out clean clothes (that you had to wash, dry, fold and put neatly away)? Did you do it all with a smile and no
complaint?

Have you ever calculated a Nipride drip so that it will bring down a combative person's blood pressure but not so quickly it will drop their brain
stem while also not getting your teeth knocked out; all while speaking kind and comforting words?

We all have our roles to play, our duties to perform. What I do is invaluable. If a woman's worth is determined by lesser bicep size then the
people making that determination are short-sighted in the extreme.

Last I checked, inflation by it's very definition, was defined as an increase in the supply of money, not by an increase in the estrogen level of a
given workplace.

What I am about to say has been said here a few times but Im gonna go a little more in depth. I think part of the reason our society is in the Shiite
hole is because both parents are working and no one is home with the kids. I feel if you do have kids that one parent should be home with the kids
and the other working. Does this mean it has to be the woman? Not at all but generally the men will have a wider variety of jobs they can do. Its
going to affect your lifestyle sure it is and you'll see your friends who are married with NO kids and both working getting all of the stuff but you
know something, those toys wont be there when they are old. Let them have their "stuff" you sacrificed and you built a family which is priceless.

I think we are in a situation where there are to many people working and not enough jobs to meet this. I think society needs a real big kick in the
arse also so I think it makes sense we get back to basics. One person home with kids and the other at work. We do this at my house and our kids are
much better off for it and yes it is quite noticeable when they play with their friends who have two working parents who are never around. Nice
article amigo.

WOW how many times can you say "I" in a couple paragraphs? Might want to take a look in the mirror next time you're primping your polished self to
explain why you'll probably never find a man you just described. I one of those responsible ones you talk about, and I even stay home with my kids
and love every second of it, own two bars blah blah blah.

Only thing you're missing, is it takes someone who isn't selfish to do all the things you're looking for in a man, and the only way you won't
find the drug abusers, alcholics etc. (which by the way are pretty selfish people) is if you start acting and being the person you want to
find....unselfish

Did you even understand what the OP and the article said, or did you just read the Headline and assume we wanted to hear your man hating rant?

And you have just proven my point about men.

If a man got onto ATS and and said he was waiting to get married and have a family until he could find a woman who was as accomplished and responsible
as he was, he would be called smart. But when I do it, I'm called selfish.

Oh, but yes, I must be selfish. That's why I spend the majority of my free time doing independent research into helping people with mood disorders
and practically give away my time and services to free. But I'm selfish. That's why I pay for homeless vets medicine out my own pocket when they
can't pay for it themselves. But I'm selfish.

How dare I, a mere woman, turn down 3 marriage proposals, because I'm waiting to find a guy who would actually be responsible enough to take care of
himself and a family?? If that makes me selfish, then I guess what "selfish" is, is smart.

You can't even begin to know who I am by my "rant", as you call it. But your response is typical of many men. If I can't find a responsible,
accomplished, emotionally mature man, it must be MY fault....because I'm too selfish.

So why is it the women who are the cause of the problem? I mean, statistically speaking, men and women are fairly equal in numbers. What if we decided
today that the men in the workforce were the cause of the problem, and they should stay home?
This is ridiculous.

bingo. my dad contracted prostate cancer back in the 70's. when he could no longer work, i went to work in a factory to support our family. i
essentially was his replacement for the family income. had i not been able to do so, his last days on the planet would also been fraught with worry
over the survival of his family, finances and ...can you imagine, a man who worked hard all his life, being evicted from his last home because he can
no longer work while stricken with devastating cancer (and the chemotherapy back then was horrible! can you just see that poor man trying to move out
of his home while vomiting up bile from his liver? sometimes men just don't think past 2 minutes from now!)

what a blow that would've been for him in his final days. instead, i worked and was able to keep him comfortable, keep our home and buy him the
only color TV he ever had in his life, which made his last days a bit more pleasant. he'd always wanted one, but had always been too frugal to buy
it. so i bought it for him, for christmas. things like this are just one of the many reasons having women capable of working in society, is a
necessity.

They abolished child labour long ago, did that effect the economy too? Just a theory for now, I bet you can also blame immigration and illegals and
that is down to not looking after your own people first and many countries are guilty of this and I won't mention Zimbabwe as a form of looking after
your own people as an example.

Also computers too, they do the job of many people at once, I wonder who is winning that race for jobs created verses jobs made, the graph is bound to
dip with it some time.

No, I've never carried a 300# person up a ladder through a fire and couldn't if I wanted to. However, if they lived with me, I could keep them from
becoming 300# by regulating their diet and then they might pull their own a** up the ladder.

That 300+ person was a 6'7" Firefighter loaded with gear and muscle and it was going down the ladder not up.

Please lets not miss the point I was making. I already stated my limitations.

By your posts I would say Humility and modesty are good traits to have for anyone.

Somehow I dont think as a woman ...a man will ever be able to come to you for Peace. Piece maybe...but not Peace.

To a knowledgable man ..Peace is the most valuable commodity for which he comes to a woman. Not Piece. Any woman can provide a man with piece. It is
not rare or an endangered commodity in this marketplace.

Peace is the endangered commodity in a high speed,fast food lane, consumer/credit oriented social structure. How many of todays women know of this
concept and factor it in in lieu of what Rockpuck and others illustrate as rampant consumerism.
I am not entirely stating the women are to blame for this as most of the men I know cannot think it through as well. Why should they? The men are so
stupid they are satisfied with NASCAR and the swimsuit edition to even think it through.

Your posts also speak heavily of entitlement thinking..which is also not Peaceful.

It looks to me by your posts that your trend will be to substitute your value systems and thinking for a man's value system and thinking and believe
this is entirely normal even justified. Again..not peaceful.

You will need a male weaker than you to accomplish this goal and justify your frustrations. Congratulations you are doing well. There are lots of
these weaker men out here trying out for approval.

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