Agreed. It does become tiring to read the back and forth of the same thing over and over, but both sides definitely have their reasons and both are understandable.

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I think we differ in our interpretations of The Joker as well. I found him to be someone who really enjoyed what he was doing. I found him to be doing what he wanted while the other two villains did what they thought was needed (the Bane motivational debate aside).

As soon as Nolan mentioned Ledger's idea of a "murderous clown with zero empathy", that really told me all I needed to know about their take of Joker. He has zero feelings, even if he seems like he enjoys what he does.

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Originally Posted by BatmanGoesToRio

Sorry but you misunderstood me. What I meant was that the people of the Narrows freaked out without even seeing Scarecrow's mask - just because of the fear gas.

They main reason Nolan let Crane wear his mask in BB (the same goes for Joker's white facepaint, green hair and purple suit or Selina's catsuit and domino mask): He had to resemble his comic counterpart. Others than that a simple gas mask would have done the job.

You're right, but to Crane...he used that mask while experimenting the gas on the Arkham patients, so it wasn't really an idea of Nolan wanting to give Crane the mask just to use the mask...Nolan had his Crane using the burlap sack on his patients at Arkham Asylum from the beginning and he just continued to use the mask in TDK, but stopped in TDKR(but at least we got some fan service in by seeing those straws sticking out of his coat).

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Originally Posted by milost

It could have worked with Bane, in the right hands. I don't mind seeing Bane's eyes, I thought that was alright but I didn't like that you could see his balding Mr. Clean head. They should have had some sort of cap or something that meshed well with the actual mask to hide the fact that he was a bald dude. Then maybe have the eye openings sort of be shaped like the comic eyes but smaller, that Spawn/Bane/Venom/Deadpool shape. Then Hardy or whoever played Bane could have still emoted with their eyes and brows.

Now we're saying him being bald was a bad thing? Lol.

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Originally Posted by BatmanGoesToRio

As I said: "Bane is not that kind of a villain".

And, sorry, I am not so much into Star Wars. I have seen Episode IV to VI a couple of times and Episode I once - but that's it. But are you sure that Darth Vader really got sympathy points before Episode I to III hit the theatres (and before the climax of "Return Of The Jedi", of course)? Anyway, maybe the Darth Vader example was not the best. My fault.

At his moment of taking out the Emperor, being unmasked and what have you, I felt that Vader indeed gained some sympathy points with the audience for sure. He finally got out of the darkness and came into the light.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator

@Anno: I like it and I share your sentiments about giving Nolan more time or two films. I would've left the reporters alive until after Bane said "Gotham will survive." I'll add Bruce waiting for the next Joker and thus neglecting his leg to my headcanon for the missing years.

I was thinking about both on keeping the reporters alive until he was done with the speech, but I don't think it would seem to have much sense to have the Blackgate inmates running free while the reporters are still around. If anything, the cameras would still be rolling while the men and women are dead on the street.

And I felt the leg thing was necessary. And not so much as something that keeps Bruce from donning the suit, but a physical injury that resembles his emotional injury since Rachel's death.

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Originally Posted by milost

I know the script of Dark Knight states that he's limping, but in the actual film I don't remember seeing his knee bothering him. Didn't he fall on his back too? Looks like his head and neck are all messed up. He seems to run away just fine (same run and cape flow that he does when he's running towards avenue X at Cicero), seems like shortness of breath if anything else.

I always thought the reason he was so out of breath, struggling, and acting sluggish was because of that shot in the gut and fall (not to mention the beating he took). He's always holding his lower abdomen in the end, not limping on. Unless the cartilage just deteriorated over the time span of the 8 years.

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It looked like he was limping for sure and not just him being out of breath. The way he was running looked crooked.

And I also felt the leg injury only got worse over time. While he was lopsided a bit in the end of TDK, it was nowhere as bad as it was in TDKR, and that's why I liked the idea of a nagging injury becoming bigger as a physical injury reflected an emotional injury as well eight years later. That, I think, it a great reason why Nolan wanted to develop an injury that we saw in the previous film than something that just magically appears during those missing eight years.

Also, I liked how, in the beginning of TDK, we see those developing bruises all over Bruce's back and we finally get an answer on all the injuries that Bruce sustained while he was Batman. Zero doctor visits and only Alfred helping him really put a toll on his entire body. Those kidney problems could have stemmed from knife shots from Joker and the gunshot from Dent.