"A majority taken collectively is only an individual, whose opinions, and frequently whose interests, are opposed to those of another individual, who is styled a minority. If it be admitted that a man possessing absolute power may misuse that power wronging his adversaries, why should not a majority be liable to the same reproach?" - Tocqueville, Democracy in America

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Friday, October 28, 2011

Compulsion in Islam?

With all due respect to Associate Professor Dr Ridhuan Tee Abdullah - a well known academic, ulamak and preacher in Malaysia - I must admit of being astounded by his remark at a forum entitled 'Hudud: Its dilemma and implementation' organised by Malay-language daily Sinar Harian in Shah Alam on 25th October 2011. (His speech at the said forum can be viewed on YouTube.)

At around the 9th minute of the video, Dr Ridhuan strongly asserted that Islamic law has to be implemented by force and there is no other way to educate the non-Muslims on Islamic laws than by force. Dr Ridhuan added that the most opportune time for “us” to do so was after the 13th May 1969 incident and lamented the fact that “we” had let that opportunity gone.

During the speech, Dr Ridhuan lamented the fact that non-Muslims, especially the Chinese, have a negative view of Islamic state and hudud generally. Speaking from experience, as a Chinese, Dr Ridhuan insisted that he knows the Chinese’s attitude towards Islam and that that attitude has not changed.

Firstly, I must confess that I am more than a little bit perplexed by Dr Ridhuan’s attempt to connect the racial riot of 13th May 1969 with the idea of an Islamic state and the implementation of hudud or Islamic laws in Malaysia.

The riot of 13th May 1969, as far as I know, had nothing to do with the desire by any particular section of our society, including the Muslims/Malays, for an Islamic state or for the implementation of Islamic laws in Malaysia.

If the mainstream version of the riot were to be believed, that riot was caused by the economic imbalances between the Malays and the non-Malays, giving rise to a deep and seething anger between the two sections of the society culminating in racial hatred. This was sparked by the unprecedented victory of the DAP in the general election immediately preceding the riot and the subsequent victory march by the DAP. The whole situation was worsen by the election campaigns which were full of racial rhetoric and overtone and the killing of some Chinese suspected to be communists.

Never have I read about the riot being anything about Islam, Islamic state or the implementation of Islamic laws. Even the non-mainstream version of the riot has omitted mentioning anything about those issues being the possible cause of the riot.

As neither Islam, Islamic state nor Islamic laws was part of the catalyst or cause of the riot, how could Dr Ridhuan surmise that the most “opportune of time” to implement Islamic laws in Malaysia was after the riot? There is an obvious lack of cause, causation and result here. I mean, Dr Ridhuan may very well say that 31st August 1957 would be the most opportune time for all of us to choose Islamic state as the governing model of our nation. I would certainly understand that remark because that was the starting point of Persekutuan Tanah Melayu as an independent state. But to relate the choice of an Islamic state as a model “after” the riot of 13th May 1969 is as perplexing as any suggestion that the most opportune time to implement Islamic laws in Malaysia would be just after the Bersih rally, for example.

Regardless of the lack of any tangible connection between the May 13th riot and the issue of Islamic state, Dr Ridhuan had, by his remark, obviously – or even perhaps, inadvertently – exposed the notion, which could be popular among the neo-right winged-nationalist in contemporary Malaysia that the May 13th riot was “won” by the Malays or Muslims.

Premised on this notion of a “victory” being achieved by the Malays/Muslims during the May 13th riot, Dr Ridhuan quite obviously thought that the Malays/Muslims, as the victors, could have imposed an Islamic state model on Malaysia or implement hudud/Islamic laws as the laws of Malaysia after the said “victory.” Conversely, the non-Muslims, particularly the Chinese, as the “vanquished”, would not have been able to resist such forceful imposition of Islam on them at that point of time.

That, to my mind, would have been the natural conclusion of Dr Ridhuan’s remark.

With all due respect to Dr Ridhuan’s scholarly position, I view that with sadness.

The May 13th riot has no victors. Malaysia as a nation, society and people were all losers on that fateful day and from that dark blot on our history. May 13th 1969 was an absolute failure of all of us as a people. It was a day when we had left our power to reason and rationalise and let our primordial kinship and tribalistic emotions to take over. It was a day when we discarded civility and civilisation and opted for barbarism.

Victory on the May 13th riot and its aftermath, in my opinion, could only be measured by our collective ability and willingness, as a people and a nation, to learn the lessons brought about by the riot and to take measures to address the causes which sparked the riot. Anything else is a failure.

The notion that the Malays/Muslims could have done anything, including imposing an Islamic state model during its aftermath, is a perversion and represents an almost nihilistic view of the riot, its causes and consequences. It is yet another unwelcome addition to the plethora of abuses to which the Malay psyche has been subjected all this while. As a Malay Muslim, I find it absolutely objectionable.

Dr Ridhuan’s lamentation that the Chinese, particularly, has a negative view of Islam and that their negative attitude towards Islam has not changed while at the same time asserting that hudud or Islamic laws must be implemented by force is, with respect, the peak of irony.

It is an irony because one of the main reason why the non-Muslims throughout the world have such a dim view of Islam is answered by Dr Ridhuan himself in his statement that Islamic laws should be implemented by force, regardless of any party’s objection to it.

To many, the attitude of some of our ulamaks and mullahs are reflective of Islam’s supposed intolerance of others, most particularly other faiths and not to mention cultures, breed and creed.

If Dr Ridhuan would stop and think at the repercussion of his assertion as such, he would realise that by making that assertion, he had managed to isolate millions of non-Muslims from the beauty of Islam, a faith that was premised on absolute respect for each other. Dr Ridhuan would do well to realise that the Kharijite-ist approach towards maintaining Islam as the one and only faith does not bode well with Islam’s core teaching of mutual existence, respect and co-operation.

If we were to force the implementation of Islamic laws in Malaysia, by extension, why don’t we, as Muslims, force everyone to convert to Islam then, if I may ask? The answer is provided by God Himself, when in the Quran He says:-

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

Then He says again:

“If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

Dr Ridhuan insisted that as a Chinese coming from a family who are staunch non-believers of Islam, he knew how the Chinese feel about Islam. His disdain for the parties whom he always describes as “ultra-kiasu” is well known. Dr Ridhuan may have his own deeply personal reason for that. It is not for me, or for anybody else, to judge him for that. But surely Dr Ridhuan should not let his disdain prevent him from being just. The Quran says:

“O you who believe! Be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice, and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do.” Quran 5:8)

Muslims and non-Muslims must be made to know and realise that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent as a “mercy for all the world” (Quran 21:107). He was not sent to force or compel anybody towards Islam or Allah. God says:

“Nothing is (incumbent) on the Messenger but to deliver (the message), and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.” (Quran 5:99)

“So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” (Quran 3:20)

Why then do we want to force Islam on anybody? Isn’t that un-Islamic?

The Quran repeatedly tells Muslims not to interfere with the affairs of non-Muslims. It also implored us to always be fair and just to them. Even when we argue with them, we are supposed to be civil and maintain good manners.

“So if they come to you, (O Muhammad), judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, God loves those who act justly.” (Quran 5:42)

“Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.” (Quran 16:125)

Throughout Islamic expansionism, non-Muslims, particularly the Christians and Jews, have always been treated with respect. No effort was made to force them to follow the Islamic way of life. It is exactly this tolerant approach which had driven even Western historian to conclude without bias:

‘The tolerance of Muhammad towards the Jews and Christians was truly grand; the founders of other religions that appeared before him, Judaism and Christianity in particular, did not prescribe such goodwill. His caliphs followed the same policy, and his tolerance has been acknowledged by skeptics and believers alike when they study the history of the Arabs in depth.’ ( LeBon, Gustav, ‘Arab Civilization,’ p. 128)

‘The Muslims alone were able to integrate their zeal for their own religion with tolerance for followers of other religions. Even when they bore swords into battle for freedom for their religion to spread, they left those who did not desire it free to adhere to their own religious teachings.’ (Robertson, as Quoted in Aayed, Saleh Hussain, ‘Huquq Ghayr al-Muslimeen fi Bilad il-Islam,’ p. 26).

Yet, every day we hear of mullahs wanting to impose this and that, not only on fellow Muslims, but also non-Muslims. In Malaysia, in newspapers and on the internet, non-Muslims read all sorts of accusations being made against them on a daily basis by none other than people of high authority. In articles written on blogs and comments made on such articles, curses are thrown at non-Muslims, names are called and various threats are made against them, needlessly.

Civility and dare I say, the way of Islam have been thrown out of the window by Muslims themselves.

Is it then any wonder why non-Muslims all over the world nowadays view Islam with negativity as well as prejudice?

Note to potential commentators: Please be civil and nice in your comments. Inappropriate comments in any way, will be deleted.

82 comments:

I am part of PAS youth, but I dont agree to hudud after thoroughly reading about it. But what can I do about it? or even we do about it? we just have to follow.. for example, if we object it even on FB, we might get kicked out of the Admin.

We give hints to PR that we dont want hudud, like insulting PR, but they seem to not understand it.

Is this Lithuan fella still a Chinese ah? He has disowned his own mother and father so as to accepted as a Malay. He uses "we" or "kita" to show this. Guess he has to SHOW he is MORE Malay or MORE Islam than a Malay to be a wannabe Malay/Muslim?

That Mulut Celupar is definitely helping UMNO to break up Pakatan Rakyat by keeping stirring up emotions and fears among Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. Except now that PAS still refuse to let go of the Hudud bait hook sinker.

This Mulut Celupar has been pouting hatred and kissing UMNO asses since day one, he even compiled all his nonsenses into a book too. He is definitely part of UMNO's 3Rs program-which is to instill racism, religious fallacies and blind worship for monarchs among Malays to consolidate supports for UMNO. So who is the ultra kiasu Chinese Muslim now?

If there is something that is equivalent to PERKOSA, I would say Ridhuan TEE CELUPAR is the right person and maybe he should create a CHINESE MUSLIM of PERKOSA so that he can gathers the muallafs to support UMNO

we don't need this is the type of person in this beloved country. can't we live with the mutual understanding that if you want to be respected, do the same thing to other people. even God himself never force anybody to follow His decrees. this man acting more than God.

I am a non-muslim but during my university days was interested in RELIGIONS, read the Holy book and other religious books to gain better understanding of the different religions of the world. Today someone open my mind that there are two different revelations(Medinian and Meccan)coming out from the HOLY book. I am really confused....!! isn't there only ONE truth as revealed by the HOLY book ? And which one's is the TRUTH ?

I am getting on in years now, and have seen a lot of matters related to such points.

I would not want to presume to tell you what the one Truth is. (Indeed, if you are Muslim, and I expound something which is not according to what the Islamic authorities deem to be their One Truth, they'd likely want to come after ME!)

But there is something which is generally true about "One Truth" issues.

And that is: A great many people will try to claim that they each alone understand and have knowledge of what the "One Truth" is.

I can appreciate that sincere religious scholars can honestly disagree over theological points, and scholars of different religions can hold different views. And they would earnestly hold that other views are wrong; their own being the truth. I have no quarrel with these.

The ones I despise are the charlatans who, with their oratory skills, magnetic personalities or plain simple ampu-bodek abilities, manage to gain traction with sufficient numbers of followers or with influential people, and hence have a platform from which they expound their "One Truth".

May even get to write a column in some rag which claims to be a "newspaper" and invitations to speak at forums. Perhaps rewarded well to help further the vile divisive agenda of a desparate politician.

Some may even manage to believe what comes out of their own mouths; others blatantly lie.

I believe you are reading those verses out of context. Please read the verses preceding and appearing after them to get the real picture. Knowledge of the events surrounding the revelations would also help you to understand them better.

Dear Anon @ 20:43,

There is only one Quran. Some verses were revealed before hijrah ie before the Prophet moved to Madinah and some others were revealed after that. Some verses may appear to implore Muslims to kill non-believers but those verses must be read wiyhin their context. God - and I mean every God in every religion - would not implore His believers to do wrong.

There should be no compulsion in religion and to say that hudud should be implemented by false reflect very badly on muslims. PAS should get a referendum from the people of Kelantan if they want to implement hudud in Kelantan. If they lost Kelantan, then what is the point of implementing it. I won't be surprised that even muslims themselves may not want hudud. PAS just assumed that the muslims want it.

Hi Art,Always a pleasure reading your blog. I am also a chinese muslim convert thru marriage. This was some 27 years ago. I am up for senior citizen priveleges soon heheh. I didnt become an ultra, in fact I am slacking, if going by this shithole Tee's standards. Anyway, who gives a shit. I think, like some commenters have said before, this guy must have had some serious issues with his family/race/whatever sometime ago that melted his conjones. Serious enough for him to turn his back on them. I know for a fact he used to give religious talks to some rich born-again old folks in Damansara Heights about 10 years ago. Life-long muslims listening in awe to a convert..haih. I was invited many times but declined. I am comfortable with what I know and dont need another saudara baru punk telling me what I should do. Amen..

As a Chinese and a Buddhist, this what I have to say opposite Islam, Christainity. Buddha has been telling his disciples that he is a teacher and not a god. His main teachings is what a Buddhist should do is to do good things for peace. As a Buddhist, we do not disturb the beliefs of other religions. Muslims and Christians has their divine beliefs and sometimes towards their extreme end, but this will not concern us, except when we are forced to convert. Look at other countries whereby Islam is the official religion, Middle east a good example. there are so many unrests and problems. One should ask why. The answer is probably what is happening in Malaysia. Religion is being played up politically by the Political parties.Riduan could be right politically about the chinese in Malaysia. The chinese in Malaysia is a suppressed and targeted race by the ruling political party. so being suppressed, the chinese, (excluding the Christians)their main concern is to continue to put food on the table and most important to give their children the best education. So religion comes only third.

Our Dr. Says he knows Chinese bec. he used to be Chinese himself and that Chinese have a negative view of Islam. He may right or wrong about this, as I am in no position to say so. But within my family and circle of relatives and friends, there are many who are Muslims. Some became Muslims thru marriage, some were born Muslims bec both parents were Muslims.

Whatever their feelings are, you do not see the Chinese community riot or foam in the mouth or have a assembly to protest bec some of them decide to become Muslims.

Dr. T is the prime example of this, isn't it ? Imagine if Dr. T is a born Muslim, converted to another religion and started to "hentam" the community, what would happen...? I rest my case.

I’m NO Islamic scholar but I do read a lot. So please do clarify for me about this;

‘There is only one Quran. Some verses were revealed before hijrah ie before the Prophet moved to Madinah and some others were revealed after that. Some verses may appear to implore Muslims to kill non-believers but those verses must be read wiyhin their context.’

& this;

‘Please read the verses preceding and appearing after them to get the real picture. Knowledge of the events surrounding the revelations would also help you to understand them better.’

So how do these explanations jive with the claim of ;

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

????

Isn’t this statement has to be read based on yr two earlier postulates?

Perhaps this lies the inconsistency of the two different schools of Medinan and Meccan Surahs in the Quran.

But then how could that consistency be LOST when there is only ONE GOD?

The Truth cannot be dependent on place, time & people. It should be perpetual & timeless, independent of ALL thing, lest the human thought!

..embarrassing! he expect muslim brother Professor Aziz to support him but instead he disagreed with him.

Recently, he and Perak mufti claimed there many apostates among malays and want anti-apostasy law. If he thinks he is 'so expert' in islamic affair, ask him to point out to us which verse talk about the anti-apostasy injunction in the Quran!!

No vehicle is allowed in any public park. Anybody operating a vehicle in a park shall be guilty of an offence and fined 5k.

A woman who was pushing her baby in a pram was charged under that law.

A man who drives an ambulance through a park in order to pick up a patient was also charged under that law.

The law is clear in its prohibitiom. We think we know the principle. But we have to apply reason in order to find the true purport of that law. We have to see the purpose or the mischief which that law tries to prevent before applying that law. Otherwise that law will lead to injustice and unfairness.

You can't look at the Quranic verses in isolation of other verses or take them out of their context with the circumstances surrounding their revelation.

For eg there is a verse which says smite your non-muslim at the neck. That verse was revealed before a battle. Surely one cannot use that verse to kill all non-Muslims.

Extract from the articles………Freedom is an absolute concept. One cannot be half or two thirds free. One either is or not. This is key to understand when we look into God’s commandment regarding absolute freedom of religion, for all. 2:256 There shall be no compulsion in religion ….Despite this clear command so many people (RT is a good example) compromise this God given right of others if in a position to do so, in smaller and greater ways. History of mankind carries a grave testimony to this fact.This article hopes to encourage reflections on the subject to avoid repeating mistakes of previous generations, who enforced religion on others in various ways.To understand what “no compulsion in religion” really means, we first need to sort out what constitutes ‘religion.'…………….

Maybe the following articles can shed some light. Just one clarification – you will find that the Quran perspectives are TOTALLY opposite to RTA or the prevalent Malay Islam/UMNO/PAS/Jais political agenda.

Sad to say that majority of Muslims are not blessed with deeper knowledge of Allah and tauhid. So they argue or articulate using only their brain. I understand what Dr.Ridhuan Tee was trying to arrive at but majority of Muslims are "scared of death and bedazzled by this world".They won't or can't understand why Allah spared most of the Muslim countries from natural disasters or gave Muslim countries much of the world's wealth.And for Muslims who are afraid of the bad Press for Islam, don't bother. Islam is from the beginning of time and Allah doesn't need anybody to 'spin' for him.

The sisters-in islam complained that PAS k'tan hudud(some of it) goes against human right.Some of the punishments are extra-quranic(not mention in Quran) eg :punishments for apostasy and lashes for drinking are not mentioned in Quran.

Before Dr Ridhuan talk about implementation by'force' ,(since he is also an ulama,) can he verify whether sister-in-islam claims are true or false??

The religion of our parents as preached by scholars, imams and mullahs educates us not to use our intellectual faculties in religious affairs. This education is spread through some false hadiths. Purportedly, the use of the mind in religious matters would lead us astray. The majority of Muslims uphold this sort of belief even though it opposes the Quranic teaching:

Now here lies the dilemma; how to interpret the religious, & for that matter any, laws AS stated!

Interpreting according to contextual-wise &/or in sum total of the rule-book.

Too rigid, we ended up destroy the true essence of the TEACHING.

Too lenient, the TEACHING is been leaded for abused.

& there r many examples throughout the world history, lest of all those recent cases within bolihlands.

Where to draw the line?

There was a talk on TED Talk about how to interpret & manage the rigidity of any laws. (Sorry, can't remember the link, Can someone help?)

The presenter used an example of hospital cleaner to highlight the problem.

Most of the time when a family member suffered some trauma, be it disease or accident, the other family members would most likely 'camped out' at the visitor hall. This happened most of the time, past any visiting restriction & the cleaning schedule. & this can sometime takes up days.

Now the janitor has a problem. Should he/she forgoes cleaning the hall while the patient's family members slept-in? Doing so he/she is not conforming to the roster dictated for the work to be done. If he/she insists on doing the cleaning, then people within the hall would be disturbed.

Where is empathy? Where is common sense?

The choice of using a janitor to cast this example is to showcase educational level is not the issue. The issue is our OWN human instinct of compassion towards others, especially when the others r in distress.

So any rules r make to be bent, but with caveats.

The guiding principle is the compassion of love that we have within our heart towards others, irrespective of colour & believes.

With that, any rules, be they religious, cultural, societal can be overcome.

The ONLY problem is the exerciser of that compassionate principle. What's his/her objective? From the heart &/or 'ada udang di belakang batu'. There r many, especially the political kinds.

Now the tough question, is Islam as practiced by the Malay M'sian has that intrinsic human component? Or has that component been drummed down by the extremists within the pact, such that to fan it would be consider traitor to the religion?

["...The research discovered that the Malays in these sub-ethnic groups were genetically composed of some Proto-Malay (orang asli Melayu), Semang and Indian DNA, with at least 20 per cent Malay and and 52 per cent Chinese DNA. ..."] - Professor Zilfalil Alwi

Since Malays are 52% Chinese, I'm convinced by 'Prop' Ridhuan Tee Abdullah that Malaysias problem is because of Cina like him. There are many more where he comes from! :))

Only God knows the truth. And He has promised us that the truth will prevail.

As human beings, we can only do our best to unravel the truth and to do justice in accordance with His exhortations and injunctions. But we are not doing our best if we do not use the greatest gift that he had given us, human beings, ie the power of reasons.

He is the most compassionate and forgiving. I am sure if we do our best and still we are wrong, He will forgive us.

He takes everybody for a ride, DrM himself is a medical doctor, he knows race is related to gene. He amended the constitution to empower himself. Do you think Dr Ridhuan does not know he is a chinese? he just take advantage of the amendment.Only those who dont use brains believe him.

.. the foreigners are laughing.My iranian student fren say this,.. no matter how much he adopt arab custom or able to speak Arab, a persian will never be an Arab

Personally I don hate any religion. It is the people of that religion that makes me wonder what exactly their religion teaches them. And THAT my friend make me wonder what good is that religion when its people are acting, behaving worse off than those without any believes.

The whole heart of the issue facing Malaysia and cropping up in this affair is NOT Riduan Tee, his genes, character nor any religion.

The key word is COMPULSION and whether a human being (whether you are atheist, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish) can be forced to become more spiritual (or approved of God) if he/she adopts certain outward customs and practices.

The opposite of spirituality is compulsion/tyrany/force/legalism. The law can never make a person a better human being, it only ensures that sins of commission are not committed. Sins of ommission (doing good, giving love, charity) can never be supervised or publicly enforced.

Only the most wonderful human acts are done outside the glare of organised religion. Becoming a Christian for me is an earth-shaking event but for my non-Christian neigbour or relative, it is nothing. What matters is the fruit of my faith. Am i a better neighbour, am i more considerate, more kind?

The Internet is the most effective conversion tool. It is free and it is fair for all to see: A tree is judged by its fruits. Just look at the fruits of all the religions of the world: you will quietly observe wihout any bias that for those religions whose faithful followers can be counted as 70%-80% extremists, confusionists, terrorists, hypocrites in all their personal lives are the religions that preach to a false and evil God/being.

So the question of compulsion is already a sign of confusion about spiritual matters. The consequence (fruit) of confusion is hate, violence and murder.

We all know that the Devil's aim is to kill, steal and destroy. Whether by democratic means or by force, he will try to do it but God has already defeated the devil on his own terms so now he is after human beings. Which is why the world is in such political and economic turmoil.

Being a non-muslim, it is indeed heartening and imformative to note the comments raised, and in the manner it is being raised: mature, civilised even though there are different views...keep this up for sometimes amongst all the darkness, a small flame is always burning...there is indeed hope that all Malaysians can live together peacefully.

All religion teaches good, but somehow the followers are the ones that always, without fail demonstrate the wrong negativity to the rest. It is not that we do not understand or we do not want to understand, just that action speaks louder than words.

anon 17.07. Nobody can beat human being's ingenuity,..not too late to learn from history. In spanish inquisition, they were driven by political and religious reasons to 'purify' the heretics. The protestants persecuted the catholics and vice-versa in the old days, they could come up all sort of excuses

Art Harun,Thank u for ur article. Complex issues made simple. Vague issues made clear and most times crystal. May u be bestowed with wisdom and words that would open the hearts of people like me.Do keep writing and educate the masses.Take care of ur health - body and mind.

It is unfortunate you wrote to mislead and distort. You quoted selective verses disregarding a huge corpus of literature. Please read a tradition of Islamic books. There is no compulsion to force non Muslims to believe and profess islam. It's distinct from imposing criminal sanction. Its has always been the state jurisdiction to impose criminal sanction reflecting the value of majority not withstanding the objection of minority. Otherwise no criminal sanction can be imposed. Traditions from prophetic and sahabah's period to Fatimid period to Andalusian, ottoman and current period like is saudi show that Islamic law being implemented in Islamic states and subject non Muslims to it whether they've assent to it or otherwise.

So stop misleading. Just read the traditions in plethora of Islamic books available. If you can't understand just google Wikipedia for elementary reading. For instance google the crime of apostasy. There's already ijma'. All the sahabah's ulama including Shafii Hanafi etc etc are unanimous on this. But somewhere down the line there's an Ustaz art harun who pick selective verses gave his own opinion believing he holds the whole truth and belittle people like dr Ridhuan. Don't forget that there are hordes who believe and want hudud especially from pas. Hadi even said the first thing he'll do as a ruler is to introduce hudud.

I thought of resting my case, then in come this comment of one pseudo-woman (I don’t even want to spray dirt on the namesake term lady).

The many dichotomical & many a time contradicting Surahs of the Quran r well know fact. Thus, the classification of the different schools of Medinan and Meccan Surahs in the Quran by the later ulamas/scholars(???).

There consist of the many arguments about reading the Holy Text contextually or in sum total. Some even include the surrounding socio-political milieus of that time to interpret the underlying meanings. Many of the so called traditions in plethora of the Islamic books did just that.

But among these ‘man-made’ excuses, the Truth is lost!

The Truth lies within the compassion that The One has built within our mind, by giving us the power of emphatical reasoning.

It's perpetual & consistently simple. Most of all its only guiding principle been our compassionate mind.

With that, any educational background is immaterial. Just do remember, Prophet Mohammed himself was not educated & yet from him, out growth the Islam.

The sanctity of the laws, any laws, is important. But must the set of rules be so rigid such that it becomes irrevocable? Even Prophent Mohammed himself had bent many rules, as claimed to be spoken by Him, to propagate the God's messages.

Here lies Hudud’s dilemma – if Prophet Mohammed can be flexible with the God’s rules, why must his followers so ‘uptie’ about the rigidity of ‘these rules’?

ellesse, wow! now you interpret yr way-.. apply only to non-muslim.Read and understand carefully,dear. why dont you say yr holy book talk only about percepts on non-muslims??.Maybe grand mufti of Egypt is wrong, he say 'there shall be no-compulsion in religion for muslims', maybe 200 million muslims of indonesia are also wrong and you are right, maybe shia belief is wrong and you are right.. go aboard and widen yr horizen

The fact of the matter is that art was selective. He should have followed what his legal training taught him. He should have distinguished the corpus of other verses. Then give a complete balance picture. If he had done that he would have realized that he is incorrect in applying the verses and able to distinct between criminal sanctions and profession of religion. Discussion of religion should be dialectic and not spun for personal or political interest. This is wrong and does not benefit anyone.

I have gotten used to you appearing on my blog off and on to accuse me of being misleading and of distorting facts and whatever. It is also part of your bag of tricks to insinuate that I am a spinner and that I have political or personal interest.

Oh, not to forget, that my write up refelcts my ignorant. Well on this Ellesse, I never confessed to be the cleverest person on earth. But I try my hardest.

If you think that there are other versesin the Quran which Implores the imposition of Islamic laws or way of life on non-Muslims, (which I had, for my political and personal agenda, deliberately concealed and not mentioned them), I would be most obliged if you could enkighten me and my readers of them here. If you please, write an article about them and e mail it to me. I promise I would publish it unedited.

Let's have your take ln the full "corpus of other verses". i am sure all of us would love to learn from you and your knowledge.

Since you also accused me of being selective, could you please show how I was being selective and how had I quoted those verses out of context.

Let's have a discourse on this in a proper manner as the Quran and Allah implore us to do.

To accuse me of misleading and distorting the words pf Allah in the Quran is akin to you accusing me of being a munafik and a kafir. I take that seriously. i am sure you know Allah's punishment for a person who wrongly accuses a fellow Muslim without proof.

But personally I am not too bothered with your accusations. i have gotten used to you and your vile hatred of me.

I have gotten used to you appearing on my blog off and on to accuse me of being misleading and of distorting facts and whatever. It is also part of your bag of tricks to insinuate that I am a spinner and that I have political or personal interest.

Oh, not to forget, that my write up refelcts my ignorant. Well on this Ellesse, I never confessed to be the cleverest person on earth. But I try my hardest.

If you think that there are other verses in the Quran which implore the imposition of Islamic laws or way of life on non-Muslims, (which I had, for my political and personal agenda, deliberately concealed and not mentioned), I would be most obliged if you could enlighten me and my readers of them here. If you please, write an article about them and e mail it to me. I promise I would publish it unedited.

Let's have your take on the full "corpus of other verses", to borrow you favourite phrase and word ("corpus"). iI am sure all of us would love to learn from you and your knowledge.

Since you also accused me of being selective, could you please show how I was being selective and how had I quoted those verses out of context.

Let's have a discourse on this in a proper manner as the Quran and Allah implore us to do.

To accuse me of misleading and distorting the words of Allah in the Quran is akin to you accusing me of being a munafik and a kafir. I take that seriously. I am sure you know Allah's punishment for a person who wrongly accuses a fellow Muslim without proof.

But personally I am not too bothered with your accusations. I have gotten used to you and your vile hatred of me.

Dear Art,I understand this Dr Ridhuan is a Senior Lecturer with the Armed Forces Defence Academy (ATMA). From his wrtings and views it is clear that he has been brain washing the students at ATMA. How in the world can the government alllow this? As an ex serviceman, I know of many senior officers in the Forces have similar views like Dr Ridhuan. In my view this is not Dr Ridhuan's views but that of the establishment and by extension that of the present government.How else do we surmise the complete silence from ATMA or the government.Dr Redhuan who hold this perverted and sadistic views should be given official space to speak. This person surely is detrimental to the racial harmony in Malaysia.

Peace greetings,This is an extremely well written article which goes to the heart of the din. Imposing compulsion removes the freedom necessary for the individual to make that choice freely to surrender to God. If walls are too strongly built between the faiths, how are people to come to Islam if that has been the path appointed to them? May the way be open for you.

good idea, public debate ,Art. Ask Dr Ridhuan in Public about his support for anti- apostasy law and its punishment for apostasy, ask him to point out the exact verse and where it is mentioned. Ask him to explain how human rights are a front to erode the sanctity of islam.

Go to Syeds blog(outsidethebox)entitled 'ayatollah pun tak tahu Quran'....one occasion, a director of IKIM said the sentence of stoning ppl to dealth is found and written in Quran during a 'live telecast'TV talk show.He(syed) ask IKIM director where exactly in the Quran does it mention 'stoning adulterer to death'.The director gave the weirdest answer to mahadzir Lokman (compere)..' it is better to discuss these things behind closed door'..

erm...to mr anonymous who posted on 28 oct 2011 14:09: do you even know what a Chinese ultra is?

To Art:

I first stumbled upon your blog a few years ago and read one or two entries at the most and thought to myself:" This is one of the better blogs and writers we have here in this sad country, but just a bit long-winded though. "

Fast forward a few years into the future, curiosity and boredom(although I don't actually have the luxury of much free time, I just hate going to sleep) brought me back here and again I'm thinking:" This is definitely one of the best blogs we have here in this mess hole, just a tad long-winded though. Must be an old man. "

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About Me

Art Harun believes that he is a failed government experiment, abandoned and left alone to roam the streets after all remedial efforts yielded no positive result. He calls himself a non-governmental organism, practices law for a living and tries very hard to play guitar, sing, race cars and write some stuffs to stay alive.