Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

My thoughts on this:

1. I am extremely skeptical that this report is at all valid. I find it difficult to believe that (a) the Rams and Bucs are talking about a concrete deal of this type this early in the process, and (b) if such talks are occurring, the story has been leaked with such specificity.

2. I don't like the trade idea very much. If it were Johnson and a third round pick, I'd say no freakin' way. Johnson and a second round pick... maybe, though I can't say I'm sold on Johnson at this point.

3. If such a deal were to take place, the guy I'd give the following odds of who the Rams would take at #3: C.J. Spiller - 50% chance; Dez Bryant - 20 chance; Derrick Morgan, Eric Berry and Joe Haden - 10% chance each.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE)

The "wasn't good enough to QB tampa bay" is drastically simplifying the situation. He was fielded after Leftwich wasn't getting it done QB. In his 4 starts he fared admirably with a very bad offense that lacked in just about every area. He made plays and was benched simply because he was only warming the seat for the head coaches poster boy Josh Freeman and they were continuing to lose games. He was essentially a rookie given the keys to arguably at the time the worse team in football and forced to throw an average of 30+ times a game due to the lack of what was supposed to be a potent running game.

What other rookie or sophmore Qbs wowed you this season? Do you think Bradford will come in and learn this offense and fair better? Will you miss Suh once we've been forced to pass on him for Bradford?

Bradford first has to learn how to master getting the ball from under center, pass his shoulder evaluation, somehow prove he isn't a Chad Pennington in terms of durability, and answer questions about his arm strength (which admittedly i don't have a problem with).

Peoria, would you rather the Rams not try to find that gem on other teams and explore all avenues or would you rather they just draft all the guys ESPN tells them to and hope they pan out. Seriously, you'd think people would be concerned if they WEREN'T evaluating all talent instead of worrying about if they are doing it too much...

The NFL is full of talented guys, otherwise they would not be in the NFL. All that is needed is a guy with the hard work, talent, and smarts for an unheralded guy who isn't given a chance to become a star.

When one problem is fixed they just move on and complain harder about the next one....

Johnson put up Keith Null numbers with the Bucs offense. That is not, and never will be, "fairing admirably". That is "PeoriaRam is going to be drinking Kristall straight from the bottle during games if the Rams trot him out as the franchise QB of the future." Those numbers are unacceptable for a franchise quarterback, and to pretend otherwise because he looks good is doing this team a tremendous disservice.

We aren't exploring all avenues. That's the problem. We're only looking at everybody else's rejects and sloppy seconds. That is not how you build a winner. Forget the egalitarianism. Forget the phony blue collar work ethic. This team needs genuine talent. We need to try to prise actually skilled, young starters from other teams-and failing that, build through the draft so we can be confident we have the best we could get.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

Man, Peyton Manning put up Keith Null numbers his first year. Don't judge a QB in his first year, especially coming out of the god awful Bucs offense. Antonio Bryant was barely healthy the entire season, and we know the tale of their RBs.

Josh Johnson is so freaking exciting. Coming out of the draft last year he was the number one player that I was looking forward to seeing in the NFL. He was spectacular in college, tho for a very small cool, and was praised NOT for his running ability like people have mentioned, but his inherent and innate passing ability. Peter King talked about him a ton last year, and I think he has the intangibles to be great. I'm 110% onboard with this, tho I think it is purely gossip. Wish it wasn't tho.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

Originally Posted by PeoriaRam

Johnson put up Keith Null numbers with the Bucs offense. That is not, and never will be, "fairing admirably". That is "PeoriaRam is going to be drinking Kristall straight from the bottle during games if the Rams trot him out as the franchise QB of the future." Those numbers are unacceptable for a franchise quarterback, and to pretend otherwise because he looks good is doing this team a tremendous disservice.

We aren't exploring all avenues. That's the problem. We're only looking at everybody else's rejects and sloppy seconds. That is not how you build a winner. Forget the egalitarianism. Forget the phony blue collar work ethic. This team needs genuine talent. We need to try to prise actually skilled, young starters from other teams-and failing that, build through the draft so we can be confident we have the best we could get.

Every rookie Quarterback this decade have put up below "Franchise Qb" numbers in their first starts in the NFL, first round or not. Like the guy above me said, even Peyton Manning in his first ENTIRE YEAR threw more interceptions than touchdowns with a better offense, offensive coordinator, and offensive talent (marvin harrison and marshall faulk), so don't give me that crap cause it doesn't fly. Only guys that came in their rookie season and put up good numbers were Matt Ryan and Ben Roethlisberger, who had a very good supporting cast from the running game, team leadership, and defense.

I'd hardly call Johnson a "reject" and even if he was, some of the best QBs in league history were "rejects" that if the Rams had stuck with your strategy of only get starters they'd have never found and would have less draft choices and players because they had to their trade their own starters and draft choices for other teams'.

The fool looks at numbers before evaluating the situation and ability first.

When you look at EVERYONE as a possibility and evaluate their on the field ability, intangibles, potential, and personal situation (surrounding talent); then your exploring all avenues. I don't know what you would call it but it sounds like "look at other teams starters and try to get them, or get guys in the draft" which is being more narrow than what im saying. The reason teams like the Patriots (besides cheating ), Saints, and Colts have been so successful is because of late round gems, "team rejects" as you call them, great talent evaluation, and trading down in the draft. That's what builds a great organization, not simply taking the surface player all the time.

So if you think a trade for Josh Johnson using a 5th and a 7th is stupid, get ready for some hard liqueur cause it seems like a hell of a lot cheaper for a franchise quarterback than the 1st, 3rd, or 33rd overall pick....

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

I will bet anything you have Av that the rams dont take cj spiller with a top pick. I LOVE spiller (i am a georgia tech season ticket holder and have watched him kill tech for years), but given that the one star the rams have is at running back, i do not think its feasible that wiht all of our holes, we are going to use a top pick on another back, regardless of his other skills.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

If this happen I'm getting the feeling this will be one of those what in the H*** was the rams thinking. Suh becomes 9 time pro bowler Josh Johnson who I amit I know nothing about become a severable # 2 and the 3 round pick want be on the roster 3 years from now. But If it works they look like geniuses.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

Originally Posted by Bralidore(RAMMODE)

Every rookie Quarterback this decade have put up below "Franchise Qb" numbers in their first starts in the NFL, first round or not. Like the guy above me said, even Peyton Manning in his first ENTIRE YEAR threw more interceptions than touchdowns with a better offense, offensive coordinator, and offensive talent (marvin harrison and marshall faulk), so don't give me that crap cause it doesn't fly. Only guys that came in their rookie season and put up good numbers were Matt Ryan and Ben Roethlisberger, who had a very good supporting cast from the running game, team leadership, and defense.

Manning had a much, much better 26-28 TD-INT ratio, a 6% better average completion rate, and nearly 100 more yards thrown per game on average than Johnson, so that is not comparable at all.

I'd hardly call Johnson a "reject" and even if he was, some of the best QBs in league history were "rejects" that if the Rams had stuck with your strategy of only get starters they'd have never found and would have less draft choices and players because they had to their trade their own starters and draft choices for other teams'.

The Buccaneers have apparently pulled the developmental plug on him. That makes him a reject.

And we can't keep counting on getting lucky with rejects. Lightning will not strike twice.

The fool looks at numbers before evaluating the situation and ability first.

When you look at EVERYONE as a possibility and evaluate their on the field ability, intangibles, potential, and personal situation (surrounding talent); then your exploring all avenues. I don't know what you would call it but it sounds like "look at other teams starters and try to get them, or get guys in the draft" which is being more narrow than what im saying. The reason teams like the Patriots (besides cheating ), Saints, and Colts have been so successful is because of late round gems, "team rejects" as you call them, great talent evaluation, and trading down in the draft. That's what builds a great organization, not simply taking the surface player all the time.

Raiding scout teams got us downgrades at several positions. My patience for prioritizing that is at an all-time low.

There are two surface questions that have yet to be answered. 1) How did a guy who is as talented as you claim to be slip through the grasp of more than 200 collegiate football programs to end up playing for a school that does not even give its football players athletic scholarships? 2) Why did the Buccaneers draft Freeman last offseason? Those two questions are red flags to me.

So if you think a trade for Josh Johnson using a 5th and a 7th is stupid, get ready for some hard liqueur cause it seems like a hell of a lot cheaper for a franchise quarterback than the 1st, 3rd, or 33rd overall pick....

Burning the higher pick on a drafted quarterback gives you better odds of finding a starter than having several late round picks sitting around your roster and you hoping one of them might hit their "upside". We have our late round super small school project, and his name is Keith Null. Lets not build a collection of them comparable to Scott Linehan's rightly reviled Tight End collection.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

From the chat going on @ stlouisrams.com

Bert, Spanish Lake
12:39 PM CT
With Tampa Bay proposing a trade for our 1st overall pick, and we would receive their 1st and 3rd round pick and Josh Johnson. I feel we should trade with Tampa and then propose a trade with Washington for their first round pick( Since they want Bradford). We need all the help we can and this would free up a lot of salary space. What do you think?

BD:
I am being completely honest when I say I have not talked to anyone in Tampa Bay. I'm not saying that won't happen at some point but to date there is absolutely nothing going on.

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

This sounds like a smoke screen to me. The Rams may be attempting to flush out any interested takers in a trade. All told this Johnson kid is not the real deal to me at this point. The Rams need to play poker and wait for the FA market to shake out and then determine where things go. My instinct still says to take Suh, who's going the combine with very little to gain, but some to lose. This kid is a dedicated football player who will be an asset to us for many years. TAKE HIM!

Re: Bucs and Rams Talking Trade?

If The Devaney & his scouting dept thought Johnson was such a diamond in the rough, why didn't they draft him in '08 ? He was there when they picked Schuening, a developmental tackle/guard. Johnson has taken on very little polish in two years on an NFL squad to justify such a huge gamble & I don't see how The Rams are in position to stockpile inexperienced QBs.

I think AV is right; this is just a manufactured rumor.

Incidentally, I'd hate that deal if I were a Bucs fan as well. They have major pass pro issues; Johnson who is supposed to be pretty mobile was sacked 11 times in that 5 game stretch last year, and also badly need holes filled elsewhere. Why not stay at #3 & take a player who is much more likely to help fill one of those holes & preserve your precious picks in a gutted FA off season?

Until the Combine & pro days are done & some clues to teams' approach are to be gleaned from their FA moves, I doubt such proposals are anything more than a mad twinkle in some fan/pundit's maniacal eye.