xit-vono said:
I don't intend to give this any more tries in the near future as I still expect map08 to be difficult, so I will attempt some other things. Most likely I'll go back to rn14 attempts, but if I feel like trying something different, I may attempt 11-20 nighmare secrets, or a nightmare secrets on map02, either by itself or as part of a movie.

I suggest you should fill up some of the -respawn tables as well. Since you've made a lot of NM runs for certain levels without those holes filled, they should be easier. Good examples of these levels that you could do are ar22, ar31, rr22, rr23 and m216r. Since you have already done these levels on NM with 100% kills and secrets, it should be easier and shorter here since you don't have to worry about fast monsters.

Nice to see theres still people submitting demos to this thread, altho I cant say I'm able to enjoy Kimo's recordbeaters since they might as well be cheated as far as I'm conserned. When a player openly admits to cheating, there should be alot of skeptics involved when short "optimized" runs occour down the road, regardless. Not great...

That aside...

Picked up doom after 5 years of inactivity cus of Altimas entertaining run on av29. At first glance I was wondering why he managed to avoid all the spawning traps (thus making the map far more surivable on Nightmare - but its completely doable in either case, just more of a pain in the ass with the traps activated). I had a look in the editor and realized one need to straferun over the linedef in the red cave where you find the SSG, since the monsterspawns are connected to that area. Its an easy linedef to pass with dooms quirks, 1 outta 10 tries usually gets it, sr50 is helpfull but not needed.

The rest of the map is fairly easy, this 2:20 required very little effort, but at least its below the 2:30 mark Altima mentioned in the txt, and its a nice round number. I'll leave the polished run for someone else, now that we know how to replicate the trapdodge (how about it altima, 1:59 next?)

TimeOfDeath said:
Top of the page. It's basically a max, but the exit cyber killed him :( Would've been under 5 mins :)

I remember when I checked the time, I thought "It would have been 4:50" or maybe 4:51, so I played more. Aim was 4:49 but I had bought new computer, which just arrived and it felt really strange to play with, so I took a break (with nomonsters running :p) and lost interest. I didn't make successful demo (except low 5mins), but that map really taught me how to use BFG.

I agree, and when that trust is breached through cheating (discovered or admitted whats the difference...) there should be zero tolerance in regards to accepting new runs as records from the given player, in my opinion. Anything else is a slap in the face to someone who spent 50 hours on the "beaten" record.

Indeed, every demo posted in this thread is a mere Compet-n entry. Without any admins for Compet-n, there can be no official rulings on such things*. Who knows, maybe there would have been a decision to impose a lifetime ban on people who have cheated, or else a closer investigation into any new demos from them. Or maybe not.

j4rio said:
I believe there is no way to verify if some TAS tools were used so it's all down to trust.

Quite a lot of things are detectable, or can be shown to be so statistically improbable that a demo could not have been recorded normally.

* Well, if someone uploads demos that are shown to be against Demos Forum rules, we'll take appropriate action.

Well there was a case a good while ago when pretty much everyone accused a guy of cheating. But his runs were mostly around 20 or more minutes long. :p Despite that he recorded some mindblowing demos with ports that have no TAS tools invented for them or coop demos. I'm quite sure some guys around still believe okuplok's demos are cheated.

I'm sure kimo would be able to reproduce his demos while other people spectated (there are some ports that have such features, I think...). Or he could as well use a webcam or whatever to prove himself, but I trust everyone here so I don't really care at all.

Paska said:
I remember when I checked the time, I thought "It would have been 4:50" or maybe 4:51, so I played more. Aim was 4:49 but I had bought new computer, which just arrived and it felt really strange to play with, so I took a break (with nomonsters running :p) and lost interest. I didn't make successful demo (except low 5mins), but that map really taught me how to use BFG.

I also watched your "maxkill with a failed exit", and, seriously, it's one of the most impressive maxes I have ever seen, with thoroughly optimized weapon damage distribution almost all the way through. It's just what I call "modern-class perfectionism", as I doubt if anyone could push it below 5:00 before 2010 :-)

Though you could get even under 4:40 with quicker ways of killing some of the monster groups (like two PEs and the following imps).

__________________Here are my latest Doom speed demos, and here is the archive of my records done in 2005-2016.

Andy Johnsen said:
I belive theres at least 10 players who could have broken 5 minutes on this one even back in 2003.

Well, already in 2003 there were some Doom Gods strong enough to break the 5:00 mark in theory, but at that time they didn't know many of the modern optimization methods (which are needed for getting such low times). Even the famous 2-shot cyber killing method (which was seen already in Yashar's PL31-425) wasn't used by leading slaughter players like Vile. You can see that Vile's last few demos (done in 2010-2012, starting from SC23-134 and ending with PL32-306) are done with a higher skill level (both in terms of movement smartness and strategic knowledges) than his older demos.

__________________Here are my latest Doom speed demos, and here is the archive of my records done in 2005-2016.

Killing cyberdemons with two bfg shots was a known trick at compet-n many years prior to it being utilized in maxkills. The early plutonia map32 maxkills utilize it, but so does a number of other runs I've seen through the years. Thats not new knowledge at all - and the way its used in the av29 attempt is pretty much old standard. The fact that more players are using it now just means its more established in my opinion.

Theres nothing groundbreaking in this demo, its just a skilled performance from a stx-vile caliber player, but you can track even better runs many years back in time from various players. I dont think theres been a revolution the past year or two :) I think I could beat this run if I spent some hours on it tonight, and I havnt updated anything since 2003... :)