Thanks to the esteemable Dallas Robbins (see comment number 9), for the past two years or so mine has been the email of choice for folks interested in finding out whether Cain is actually Bigfoot.

This has not been entirely a bad thing. Gmail’s pretty good about spam, and I’ve made a few interesting acquaintances. Their ranks, with one notable exception, are rather less wacky then you might expect. (I found the same to be true of the MUFON people, who asked me to present the paper at one of their Salt Lake City conferences.) They are also somewhat more numerous. Fortunately, the paper is now published,* and I can simply refer my new friends there (after assuring them – to their occasional disappointment, that I cannot provide them a smoking Bigfoot gun).

In any case, because I enjoy blogs that reproduce primary sources, I’ve decided to reprint my correspondence with one such investigator below. I’ve removed his name and everything he wrote, so what’s here are my words, slightly edited.

This hopefully will also provide interested readers with a survey of the paper.

On August 31, 2007, at 10:46 AM, Correspondent notes that he saw my email on the above link, and requests a copy of the paper.

On August 31, 2007,at 1:15 PM, I wrote:

Hello –

I’m overwhelmed by the interest I’m getting in the paper. Unfortunately, I’m not distributing it right now because it’s in the publication process – it’ll appear in the next issue of the Journal of Mormon History.

I can, however, summarize it:

The paper is based on David Patten’s story of encountering Cain, whom he described as very tall and covered in dark hair, in 1835, as described in a letter published in Lycurgus Wilson’s biography of Patten. Spencer Kimball copied the letter in Miracle of Forgiveness. I found evidence, including a poem referencing the event by Eliza R. Snow and records of Quorum of the 12 meetings, that this story was widely circulated in the 19th century. In Church Archives I found a similar story; a page marked “from the papers of E. Wesley Smith,” mission president in Hawaii in the 1920s and brother of Joseph Fielding Smith, describing Wesley’s meeting with Cain, and explaining that his brother told him of David Patten’s encounter.

I tied all this evidence, together with numerous folktales about Cain, into 19th century Mormon conceptions of evil, arguing that a physical, embodied Cain represented the very material conception of the struggle between good and evil that Mormon leaders expounded upon then – Heber Kimball being harassed by demons in England and such. More recently, however, particularly after the ban on African men holding the priesthood has been lifted, such conceptions of evil have shifted; Cain is no longer seen as literally the father of the African race, as folk doctrine once held, and evil is now experienced as wrong action rather than in terms of demonic, physical confrontation. Thus, Cain’s identification as Bigfoot has provided Mormons with a way to assimilate the claims of folktale with new conceptions of what Cain, the embodiment of evil, should be like.

Thanks –
Matt

On August 31, 2007, at 2:35 PM, Correspondent asked three follow up questions – first, he wanted further information on the E. Wesley Smith story; secondly, he inquired whether I’ve read Seth Lester’s Clan of Cain; thirdly, he wondered if Cain, in any of his appearances, had made claims to being translated, and further, why those he appeared to would take any such claims as truth (him being Cain, Master Mahan, son of perdition and all).

On August 31, 2007, at 3:18 PM, I replied

1) I indeed have read Clan of Cain, and mention it in the paper. Lester begins the novel by fictionalizing Patten’s story in a prologue, then jumps forward to the present day. He bases his bigfoot mythology on the Patten story, and gives Cain a family of other bigfoot-type creatures. It was published by Booklocker, which is an internet semi-vanity press. You can order it via Amazon or booklocker.com.

2)As to Smith – I don’t have the materials on hand, but the gist of it is as follows: the manuscript I cite is in Church Archives; it describes Wesley being attacked by a huge, hairy creature, whom Smith drives off in the name of Christ and by the power of the priesthood. He then goes to Joseph Fielding Smith, who tells Wesley that it was Cain, and gives him a copy of Patten’s own story, which would seem to imply that Fielding believed it, if the manuscript is to be believed.

Anyhow, I’ve purposely avoided making my own judgment calls about truth claims here – indeed, I avoid making arguments about it in the paper in favor of merely discussing the ways Mormons have thought about the folklore. However, none of the sources I’ve dug through describe Cain as being translated; rather, they discuss his state as a “curse” – Cain himself, in the Patten story, describes himself as a “very miserable creature, who could not die;” JFS, in the Wesley Smith story, uses similar wording that I don’t want to try to reproduce from memory. It is true that virtually all assume Cain has a body; there’s some minor theology going on about his relationship to Satan because of that. The state of that body, though, would lend credence to the curse rather than translation theory – he’s warped and animalistic, universally describes as hideous and almost subhuman. Far from a translated body.

I haven’t read your article yet, so I’m not sure if you cover this, but I came across a reference to the mark of Cain in Pratt’s Auto, 231.

Lilburn W. Boggs is dragging out a remnant of existence in California, with the mark of Cain upon his brow, and the fear of Cain within his heart, lest he that findeth him shall slay him. He is a living stink, and will go down to posterity with the credit of a wholesale murderer.

Thanks, folks. Dave – I’ve not seen that quotation, but the emphasis on the mark branding a murderer does resonate with Eliza Snow’s poem, referenced in the paper, in which she emphasizes Cain as first murderer, and thus “king o’er all the murd’rous hosts.”

As to the UFOs – my favorite line from the AP story is: “The Air Force no longer investigates UFOs.” Obviously, the plans of Majestic-12 are proceeding apace, as the recently released papers of the famed, deceased UFOlogist Bob Pratt revealed. That’s Bob Pratt, people. Think about it.

Although I have been aware that these stories of Cain have had folkloric currency among early Latter-day Saints (and perhaps continue to have such), I can’t remember whether of the early accounts — Patten, W. Smith, or others — actually make a connection with Bigfoot, or is that just an inference we make today given legends of Bigfoot?

It is interesting how Pratt relates the mark of Cain as a spiritual manifestation that hangs over Boggs.

John – the early stories do not. As best as I can determine, the explicit connection to Bigfoot arises around 1980 in Davis County, Utah. At that point in time, you have a conjunction of two things – 1)the publication of The Miracle of Forgiveness, which reprinted the original Patten story; 2)a rash of Bigfoot sightings. By the mid-1980s, the two strains of folklore begin to fuse, and the story gains resurgence, particularly on Utah’s college campuses. That’s why I’m not terribly surprised you’ve never heard it, anne.

John – Read more closely. I’m studying religious folklore from an academic perspective. What you call ‘mythology’ and ‘everyday life’ are in fact cultural constructs conditioned by worldviews you’ve been taught to accept as ‘reality.’ We all have our biases.

[…] Whatever the answer to that question is, we can only wish that such association between the curse or mark of Cain and some racial or other physical characteristic had remained in the realm of epic poetry and bigfoot legends. […]

I do believe that Bigfoot IS Cain.How else can you explain the fact that Bigfoot has been seen for hundredes of years all over the world?
I have never seen him and don`t want to.From what I`ve been able to piece together he is totally insane and in leagues with satan.The people that have come face to face with him probably did`nt survive to tell the world their story.It makes me laugh at the fools in the scientific community that keep trying to find a small family of bigfoot(bigfeet?) supposedly roaming the forests of north america!If there were a small group,there would be ten times the accounts of sightings,one of them would defenitly be caught or killed by now.
Yes,if you were fool enough to kill Cain you would take his place and be cursed to walk the earth forever too!

Bigfoot/Sasquatch is Cain? I think not. Do either exist today? I don’t know.

WWW. BFRO.net has Bigfoot sightings nationwide. By region: http://www.bfro.net/GDB/ I found it surprising with 47 reported in Arizona alone, from the Navajo Reservation to the Phoenix and Tucson areas.

I found the site from a bookmark in Google Earth indicating two Bigfoot sightings near a popular camping area on Mt. Graham, a high forested mountain near Thatcher/Safford which is the hometown of Pres. Kimball. Maybe local stories of a large creature intrigued him to include Patten’s story in his book Miracle of Forgiveness – but pure speculation on my part.

BFRO.net indicates a sighting in the 1950s by a rancher on horseback on Mt. Graham and the story was well known in the small-town area at the time.

After reading some of the stories on BFRO.net, I recalled the Patten Mormon folklore story and came across this site.

Cain Bigfoot because there are too many sightings of male, female, smaller/younger Sasquatch and mulitple sightings at a time.

I suspect IF Bigfoot exists, it’s a member of the simian or ape family, similar to the Yeti legend of Asia. The accounts I’ve read on BFRO.net all report very similar characteristics such as tall, large, covered with hair, cone-shaped head and unable to articulate outside of grunts, yells and whistles. Yet, Patten’s visitor spoke to him.

Using Patten’s story and current day sightings at BFRO.net, (if either is credible), sorry, if Cain is cursed and wandering the earth, he’s not Bigfoot.

I’m not a fan of Green or anyone else regarding Bigfoot. I don’t know who John Green is. I know of the Red Green show! [grin]

Because of a planned summer outing, I came across the Google Earth bookmarks on Mt. Graham (Riggs Flat Lake) and its related site bfro.net. I thought the reported sitings unusual because they were in AZ. I assumed BF was only in the Northwest USA. I showed them to a friend, he recalled the Patten/Cain story, I googled it and came across this site. I concluded from the bfro.net site – if many of its over 1000 reported BF sightings from different persons around the country were true – the reported BF creatures wouldn’t be the same creature as Patten’s visitor. That’s my opinion. Patten’s visitor sounds similar in appearance to BF sightings, but it supposedly talked to Patten and understood Patten’s later reprimand. Both bfro.net and Patten’s account could be frauds, but if you compare the two, frauds or not, IMO they’re dissimilar creatures.

When I lived on the Navajo reservation, I heard a very brief outline of a Hopi story… supposedly, when the Hopi first went into the land they occupied (including parts of what is now Navajo reservation) they were met by a “huge” black man who told them he was the “Master” (specific word usage is in question here) of this land and if they wanted to live there they had to worship him…
EC

Wow, I feel like I’m responding WAY late to a topic long dead. Eh, I’ll humor myself.

After doing a lot of research regarding Cain, (I’m not demonic.. there was actually a purpose behind it) I have honestly come to a couple of conclusions.

In response to Elsie, Cain really would have referred to himself as Master because he is the Master of Mayhem. He is the Son of Perdition who actually holds more power than Satan (being that he actually gained a physical body whereas Satan did not.)

He is a vagabond who roams the Earth, never able to find a home for people will hunt him and seek to kill him. There was a mark upon him so that all who see him would not kill, that if anyone did the consequences would be sevenfold. So Patten’s story of a miserable creature truly would make sense. The thought of immortal life is rather tempting, so long as there are other immortals. To be the only immortal man among a world of mortals, and to be shunned, constantly fearing for your life… wouldn’t you be miserable too?

As for the bigfoot theory… it fits. Think about it. If my husband were to be constantly on the run, never to place himself anywhere close to civilization for any amount of time, the hair would be unthinkably thick and uncontrollable. Eew. lol.

Dre, I think that it’s safe to say that Cain is an altogether fictional character. His story is from a different narrative tradition than the one that includes the flood. Cain’s 4th great-grandkids are Jabal & Jubal. We’re told that Jabal was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock and that Jubal is the ancestor of those who play the lyre and pipe.

The person relating the history is talking at a much later date about cultures that are contemporary with his own, and describing them as descending from a discredited line of the same ultimate progenitor as his own culture. This “bastard cousin” notion is a common superstition held by cultures about neighboring cultures. We also see the same kind of thing develop with Jacob and Esaw and with Isaac and Ishmael.

But going back to Cain’s descendants, and whether they are really the folks who live in tents and play the lyre: Noah and his family were the only ones who survived the flood, and none of Cain’s descendants are included in their genealogies.

One must conclude (a) that the story of Cain’s descendants and the flood story are separate and mutually exclusive oral traditions that have been combined into one book, (b) that Cain’s descendants were killed off by the flood, (c) Cain’s descendants survived and there was no global flood, or (d) these parts were not “translated correctly,” or (e) some combination of the preceding possibilities.

Personally, I despise Cain. If he were here right now, I punch him square in the face. If I had the opportunity, I’d choke him and kick him a few times, too. But he has the ontological status of Darth Vadar.

Hello my name is Merle Dean Shamblin and I would like to be your new friend. I sure could use somebody to chat with. I am a 47 year old long haul truck driver who currently lives in Duncan Oklahoma. Dec 8th 1960 I was born in Fairview Oklahoma. Moved to Caddo and Washita counties where I attended school at Colony Hydro and Weatherford. My parents Malvin and Wanda Shamblin were cotton and peanut farmers. Dad died in 99 from lung cancer. Graduated from SWOSU with a business degree. My two sisters are LaDonna Hubert and Malva Burrahm. Dennis is my brother. I have been a truck driver for 14 years and have driven 2 million paid miles. I have received many safe driving awards over the years. I am single and have never been married. I have a wide range of interests and am pretty much an open book. Currently I drive a 2006 Freightliner for a major carrier. I dont go to Canada very often. I dont have a dedicated route so I run the entire lower 48. I enjoy reading cinema music sports travel etc.

There is some good debate going here and coming from England I was particularly interested to read about Heber Kimball being abused by demons in the UK. In terms of the origins of these theories we have to rely to some extent on the papers and scriptures handed down to us over generations given the quality of evidential formats which owing to the times are not available. That said, I guess it comes down to a matter of faith as to what sources you believe doesn’t it….

I was led to believe..somewhere…by someone?… Cain’s descendants survived “the flood” through the lineage of Ham…Noah’s son, anyone else here of such….I had an encounter w/BF in the woods of Wa. state 9/2007…

I am an artist ( not trained…do not support myself as such ) whilst ambling down a rural road I crossed a bridge and thought I’d paint the river/bridge…took left onto dirt road, parked 100 yds or so, got out and walked into woods…20yds(+/-),while gazing @ river felt? presence and looked to my right, I recognized a personage? standing in tree line, I spoke “?” and entity walked away, moving undergrowth and low-hanging branch. I turned to pursue? and stepped through brush to unexpected elevation drop-off upon which I noticed low-hanging branch was approx.8-9? feet above ground and I realized it had moved when person passed underneath…got the creeps and shagged it outta there…Maybe it wasn’t BF.Perhaps, it as “Wilt the Stilt” but it was weird. I can now be counted among the believers? tho’ I actually SAW nothing verifiable, something was there…..”CAIN?” I hope I was not that unfortunate. By the way I don’t believe in anything excepting we are all a big mistake…if ya doubt me just look around…Pheel

Hi! I’m new.There’s something i want you all to check out and read on the matter of “cain” Go to MaritimeMormon.blogspot.com and find and read “is cain still alive” posted friday nov 16 2007 and tell me what you think. I think this opened my eyes to a few things on the subject.

This is a true story that happened sixty-two years ago. I was about ten years old and was walking with my sister through the woods. We suddenly stopped dead in our tracks when we encountered Bigfoot face-to-face. I shall never forget it! I am not lying, and I don’t care if anyone believes me or not! I KNOW the creature exists and could easily spend half and hour talking about my experience(s). Incidentally, when I turned twenty, I joined the LDS Church, but I can tell you one thing: Bigfoot is NOT Cain!

I have had a fascination with “Bigfoot” for 35 years. I have spent many hours/years conducting personal research on the matter. I have come to a few conclussions as a Christian apologist (non-mormon Protestant).

The first question that comes to mind is whether I believe Bigfoot is a product of evolution? No, I categorically think macro-evolution is even more out in left-field than Mormonism.

The next question is whether the Almighty would have created such a beast? I believe all that our Creator made was good, but Bigfoot seems to fall from that category, so I do not think he was made with the other animals in the creation account. He seems to be more than animal, less than man, but maintains super-human qualities.

Now, I must ask myself if Bigfoot is a product of the Nephilim’s genetic tampering, such as was seen prior to the flood of Noah. Again, I do not believe this because all those freakish creatures were killed by the flood which was meant to purge the Earth of such freakish beasts along with the wicked mortals.

Next, one should examine whether or not Noah would have allowed such a beast upon the ark. Again, I do not. I do not believe Bigfoot was a product of evolution…I do not believe he was made by the Almighty “In the beginning”, and even though there were many genetic freak-shows roaming the earth prior to the Flood of Noah, I don’t think Bigfoot was one of them and even if he was, I certainly do not think he could tread water for a year.

The Holy Bible states that the Nephilim (“Fallen Ones”) were present on Earth before the Flood of Noah and afterwards. So, could they have meddled with DNA once again after the flood? I don’t think so. It seems that The Almighty put the kabosh to their genetic tampering, probably by sending most of them into the abyss and by giving them the order to cease and desist all genetic tamperings.

So, what is left? Interesting question, but I believe I have found the answer after all these years.

Bigfoot is nothing more than an original inhabitant of Babylon some 5,000 years ago. More precisely, he was present at the construction of the Tower of Babel. There is evidence from Scripture that a curse was put out among those building the Tower, but you will not find the answer from the Holy Bible sitting on your lamp-stand. The answer comes from the ancient Hebrew book of Jasher, which is mentioned as a reference point in both the book of Job and Joshua in the Old Testament.

There were 3 factions of people building the Tower of Babel. Jasher 9:26 “…the first said, We will ascend into heaven and fight against him (The Almighty); the second said, we will ascend to heaven and place our own gods there and serve them; and the third part said, we will ascend to heaven and smite him with bows and spears; and God knew all their works and all their evil thoughts.”

Jasher 9:35 “And the Lord smote the three divisions that were there, and he punished them according to their works and designs; those who said, We will ascend to heaven and serve our gods, BECAME LIKE APES and elephants….”

Now, I believe the people who wanted to subplant The Almighty with gods, made by their own hands, many of which were in the likeness of wild amimals, were thus cursed to look and act like that which they worshipped. So, did they become apes? No, they became “like” an ape, but they were also human. Now, add in the curse from The Almighty and you get the superhuman qualities that come with being a cursed creature and this would explain why all manner of wildlife fear these damned creatures, even 1,500 pound West-coast Grizzlies run away at the slightest smell of a “Bigfoot”.

So, what do you have lurking in the forests and mountains of North America? You have a creature whose ancestors were humans, perhaps 5,000 years ago, and these humans received a curse from The Almighty that made them like an ape…not an ape, but “like” an ape. They, therefore, have both qualities of man (certain facial features, intelligence, reason), but they also have the form of an ape and carry the curse, which would explain the para-normal aspect often associated with these creatures.

Once these people were cursed and transformed, they sought comfort from others of their own kind and essentially were driven out of the Middle East and everywhere else, until they migrated across the Bearing Straight land bridge into Alaska and then proceeded to disperse across North America, most likely reaching North America ahead of the “Native Americans”.

I believe the first generation of these cursed man-apes were more human, but their offspring became more like the wild beasts that they are now, probably lacking the soul that the first generation of the “damned” still held onto by a thread.

So, is Bigfoot “Cain”. No. Cain was accidently killed by Lamech and Tubal Cain. Lamech was legally blind and his son, Tubal Cain, told him to lift his bow and shoot his arrow at a figure that, from a distance, looked like an animal crossing the field. It turned out to be Lamech’s grandfather, Cain. Upon killing Cain, Lamech was overcome with grief and thusly killed his son, Tubal Cain, for his grievous error in judgment.

Besides Cain being killed with an arrow, he would have never been allowed on the ark of Noah, had he lived that long and there is no Biblical evidence that part of Cain’s punishment was to live forever wandering across the globe.

Cain probably would have had a longer life if he was not struck down by Lamech, but I doubt he would have lived long enough to see the flood. Even so, he was not authorized to go on it because only Noah, his wife, and their 3 sons and their wives were invited aboard the mighty ship by The Almighty.

Church marriages are falling apart, our youth are being assailed, and you people care about this ineffable crap?

Satan has many ways to distract. You all have fallen victim to one of them. Who gives a rat’s about bigfoot, Cain, or the Easter Bunny? Tend to your families and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I know nothing of you, your background, beliefs, or otherwise, yet I have to imagine if you found yourself and your political interests on this site you must hold some level of interest in either the biblical character Cain, the mythical creature “Bigfoot”, or the more random facets of (non-doctrinal/non-endorsed) curiosities of Mormonism. While I as an individual that was raised and spiritually educated in the ways of Mormonism find your comments regarding Mitt Romney very curious on this site (and by curious I mean that I don’t really see what Mitt and Bigfoot have to do with one another considering this is all heresy and based on inexplicable bible stories as opposed to actually documented religious beliefs of a politician.) if your comment is meant to undermine Mitt as a political candidate (whom I am not endorsing by means of this post) then I suggest you use your “deep” insight and understanding of all things Bible related to comment in such forums rather than in one of fringe observations and curiosities. Knowing nothing of you I would not “google” your religious affiliation and read an obscure blog or two and make accusations that you were unfit for the job to which you might be applying on the basis that I found a non-factually based blog delving into some of the more obscure curiosities and unanswered mysteries of generation upon generation old stories from passed members of your religion. Why don’t you keep politics to politics and old tales of hairy creature encounters to themselves. These are old stories of multiple-generation old members of a religion, not doctrinal beliefs of said religion.