After the 2013 race there will be some modification/reconstruction, Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso, Michael Schhumacher and Niki Lauda will help the designers (who - i hope - will be not Mr. Tilke).

No offense, but not all of us like to see overtaking made easy. Overtaking historically has never been easy in F1. It's just something new to the sport because people whined too much. Good thing most people weren't watching 20 years ago.

No offense, but not all of us like to see overtaking made easy. Overtaking historically has never been easy in F1. It's just something new to the sport because people whined too much. Good thing most people weren't watching 20 years ago.

None taken. Mostly .

Its not just the overtaking element though, its doesn't have any character for me, its in the middle of a featureless dust bowl with bland surroundings, the layout does little for me too, like i said previously its doesn't strike me as a real challenge for the drivers, there's loads of get out of jail free run off areas so although its corner after corner its doesn't make you pay at all if your get it wrong. But thats just me.

Its not just the overtaking element though, its doesn't have any character for me, its in the middle of a featureless dust bowl with bland surroundings, the layout does little for me too, like i said previously its doesn't strike me as a real challenge for the drivers, there's loads of get out of jail free run off areas so although its corner after corner its doesn't make you pay at all if your get it wrong. But thats just me.

Get out of jail free run-off... aren't you describing every circuit on the calendar? Hungaroring does still have some gravel traps. The corner after corner aspect is generally it's challenge. Get the line wrong in one and you're basically losing time for several more. Still a boring track for racing though.

I have never understood the appeal of this place, its like a street circuit with none of the pros but most of the cons. Bores me silly, wish they'd get rid of it.

The track is good for- the spectators near the circuit, because they can see half of the track- the sponsors, because its usually a long race, so you watch the sponsor logos longer- the VIP guests, because the airport are close and there are a lot of hotels/restaurants in Budapest- the FOM, because Hungaroring pay high license price- the teams, because its in Europe

The track is good for- the spectators near the circuit, because they can see half of the track- the sponsors, because its usually a long race, so you watch the sponsor logos longer- the VIP guests, because the airport are close and there are a lot of hotels/restaurants in Budapest- the FOM, because Hungaroring pay high license price- the teams, because its in Europe

you forgot the most important:- for Charlie, because the SC signs are out at every marshal post in about 2 seconds, 3-4 times faster than at the second fastest track.

We had some discussions in another thread about possible changes, and what I'd hope to see is the removal of the final complex of corners where the current second turn will be placed to make a longer straight there and a faster turn 3 too. Then remove the chicane at the back of the track which is a completely unnecessary feature and straightline the back straight all the way into the final corner and make in 90-degree-ish and relatively quick so drivers can make mistakes there - enabling at least a little better chance of overtaking at the end of the straight! It also keeps the laptime up that the turn 2 complex is moved 300 metres to the east.

IMO it's a fantastic circuit for sports and touring cars - FIA GT and LMS events in the past were very entertaining, and in fact so are the now annual WTCC races (if only because of certain Hungarian driver participating - now that's what you call athmosphere).

However, unsurprisingly it does not really suit the GP cars, and wet weather is extremely rare here - and even if it did rain, the repeat of the 2006 would never happen as Charley would call red flag as soon as one of the drivers saw a raindrop on his helmet.

I always thought Hungaboring was unexciting as a race venue. Unless there is bad weather, the races are terribly boring and processional. The track is too narrow, and the layout prevents any sort of wheel to wheel action very much like the old Barcelona circuit.

By making the track more "exciting" for F1 you may destroy it for the other categories that actually CAN race there successfully... and when has Tilke ever actually improved an existing track?!

In a way I wish F1 had stopped going to Spa around ten years ago, then the massive asphalt run offs and other pointless tweakings the circuit now has would have never happened as sub-F1 categories do not require such things (actually, nor does F1 really "need" them, but it is their obsessity to sanitize everything nowadays).

Most of the American, Canadian and Australian tracks still remain as the best on the planet as they have been left virtually untouched since 80's.

I know there's Hungarian posters here that are very proud of their track but personally ... I 've never been able to enjoy a race there ... I just find the circuit to be very bland

Nothing wrong with the circuit, actually a really nice track driving wise, but it's too short for F1 to overtake, which ends in boring races mostly.. If only they could extend the straight by alot, would make the track a whole lot better.

By making the track more "exciting" for F1 you may destroy it for the other categories that actually CAN race there successfully... and when has Tilke ever actually improved an existing track?!

In a way I wish F1 had stopped going to Spa around ten years ago, then the massive asphalt run offs and other pointless tweakings the circuit now has would have never happened as sub-F1 categories do not require such things (actually, nor does F1 really "need" them, but it is their obsessity to sanitize everything nowadays).

Most of the American, Canadian and Australian tracks still remain as the best on the planet as they have been left virtually untouched since 80's.

when watching an ALMS race, i do like watching the cars thread the eye of a needle at high speed between grass and very close concrete barriers. Gives the impression of a real challenge unlike some of the modern car parks

I think that the only "European tracks" (as in rather sterile) in North America are now
* Circuit of the Americas
* Miller Motorsports Park

Some newer circuits such as Barber have some modern-esque features and limited tarmac run-offs but only in the crucial places. Also places like Road America and Mosport have added some of it in one or two corners, but you never really feel bothered. It feels NATURAL

Not really sure what that has to do my comparison of Dubai Autodrome vs Virginia...

and didn't I just declare a few post earlier how dissatisfied I am with the state of European (/Asian) tracks? Not only Grade 1 circuits, most of the Grade 2s have become incredibly sterile as well

The general feeling throughout the thread as been that people don't want the track to change because Tilke will turn it into a boring tarmac carpark like the rest of the modern tracks.

I was just pointing out it they've already done that to this track and nobody seemed to care or have noticed that much, and it hasn't changed the racing at the Hungaroring, it's as boring as it has ever been...

IMO they can change anything they want on this track, none of the corners are memorable or worth saving even for nostalgias sake.

Get out of jail free run-off... aren't you describing every circuit on the calendar? Hungaroring does still have some gravel traps. The corner after corner aspect is generally it's challenge. Get the line wrong in one and you're basically losing time for several more. Still a boring track for racing though.

You misunderstood me (or, more likely i didn't explain myself properly! ) I meant it has too many get out of jail free runs offs to be considered a big driver challenge, which its twisty nature leads some to believe it is. But thats just my view, its never done anything for me but i appreciate that why other do like it.

Anyone actually saw the 2010 LMS night race here? Now that was a proper race in the dark, even places like LM and Sebring are so well lit up nowadays once the sun has gone down that you can hardly appreciate it, but this even was held in almost total pitch dark outside the start/finish straight. And the battles were amazing

I have never understood the appeal of this place, its like a street circuit with none of the pros but most of the cons. Bores me silly, wish they'd get rid of it.

I agree with you.For F1 at least, it produces mediocre racing, and Tilke is not an excuse for it. The only point I see for the track is that many poles, Finns and other countries nearby who don't have races go there. But the best races have been 2006 and 2011, as in washouts.

I agree with you.For F1 at least, it produces mediocre racing, and Tilke is not an excuse for it. The only point I see for the track is that many poles, Finns and other countries nearby who don't have races go there. But the best races have been 2006 and 2011, as in washouts.

And what about epic 1998? Or a year before, 1997? Or Senna being overtook by Piquet in 1986 or by Mansell in 1989? These races have become the Golden Heritage of Grand Prix racing!!!

I agree with you.For F1 at least, it produces mediocre racing, and Tilke is not an excuse for it. The only point I see for the track is that many poles, Finns and other countries nearby who don't have races go there. But the best races have been 2006 and 2011, as in washouts.

It holds a special memory for me as the scene of Button's exciting first win back in 2006

But yes it doesn't always provide the most entertaining races, with 2011 being another exception as a good race.

start/finish line extended by 200m to 1000mstraight between turn2 and 3 extended to 4000mnothern straight extended by 200m to 400+m.nothern chichane and corner 12 would be much sharper, like Oschersleben turn1 with alternate line for bikes.The entrance of corner 14 were also a little bit sharper

And what about epic 1998? Or a year before, 1997? Or Senna being overtook by Piquet in 1986 or by Mansell in 1989? These races have become the Golden Heritage of Grand Prix racing!!!

Valencia and Abu Dhabi have been the best races this year...

And i agree, those races, especially 1998 were very good, there wasn't much other on track action then, and back then it was also easier to overtake.I bet if tracks like Korea were made in the 70s, they may have become hits for overtaking. maybe not for the challenge though.

start/finish line extended by 200m to 1000mstraight between turn2 and 3 extended to 4000mnothern straight extended by 200m to 400+m.nothern chichane and corner 12 would be much sharper, like Oschersleben turn1 with alternate line for bikes.The entrance of corner 14 were also a little bit sharper

purple: (new)sitting placesorange: standing places

^Why would you add in tight chicanes here, chicanes were added to tracks to slow them down in an age when the high speeds were overtaking the safety of the cars and the tracks.They aren't needed in modern circuits and they don't create passing opportunities.

Even Herman Tilke has completely abandoned the use of chicanes in his circuit designs in favor of more flowing mid speed corners.

The last few corners always need to be flowing so that the cars can get close and follow each other down the main straight before passing into turn 1.just look at Barcelona for how adding a pointless slow chicane before the main straight can ruin any passing.