This study aimed to determine the role of DHEA-S in coping against the exercise training mixing aerobic and resistance components. During 5-day successive exercise training, 16 young male participants (19.2 ± 1.2 years) received either a placebo (flour capsule) or DHEA (100 mg/day) in a double-blinded and placebo-controlled design. Oral DHEA supplementation significantly increased circulating DHEA-S by 2.5-fold, but a protracted drop (~35 %) was observed from Day 3 during training. In the Placebo group, only a minimal DHEA-S reduction (~17 %) was observed. Changes in testosterone followed a similar pattern as DHEA-S. Muscle soreness was elevated significantly on Day 2 for both groups to a similar extent. Lower muscle soreness was observed in the DHEA-supplemented group on Day 3 and Day 6. In the Placebo group, training increased circulating creatine kinase (CK) levels by approximately ninefold, while only a threefold increase was observed in the DHEA-supplemented group. This mix-type exercise training improved glucose tolerance in both groups, while lowering the insulin response to the glucose challenge, but no difference between treatments was observed. Our results suggest that DHEA-S may play a role in protecting skeletal muscle from exercise training-induced muscle damage.

PMID: 22588361

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

There probably is some sort of down-regulation of hormone production caused by the administration of exogenous testosterone

I thought the same and recommended the old AD formula to a friend of mine who is 55 years of age and taking the typical Androgel dosage. He's ordering FOCUS now, since the former has been off the market. Side effects such as low sex drive, lack of focus, apathy, etc. were taken care of when the 'super' preg and dhea were introduced.

Another recent study showed it helps prevent decreases in free testosterone following HIIT

Total testosterone and DHEA-S dropped significantly until 24 h after HIIT for both age groups, while free testosterone of DHEA-supplemented middle-aged men remained unaffected. These results demonstrate acute oral DHEA supplementation can elevate free testosterone levels in middle-aged men and prevent it from declining during HIIT. Therefore, DHEA supplementation may have significant benefits related to HIIT adaptation.

yeah i mean a lot of the info on DHEA is all over the place from its proposed neuroprotective effects to muscle mass etc. From what ive gathered from a brief overview is many of the studies will supplement with it but then fail to provide resistance exercise. The research looks so promising in rat studies, which it often does, but then fails to show the same benefits in human trials. I think the research on body composition is lacking but the recent studies that are mentioned in this thread do show some promise.

yeah i mean a lot of the info on DHEA is all over the place from its proposed neuroprotective effects to muscle mass etc. From what ive gathered from a brief overview is many of the studies will supplement with it but then fail to provide resistance exercise. The research looks so promising in rat studies, which it often does, but then fails to show the same benefits in human trials. I think the research on body composition is lacking but the recent studies that are mentioned in this thread do show some promise.

Right on, brother. The notion that DHEA supresses endogenous testosterone is based on the logic that because it can convert to testosterone (in small amounts), must mean that it can suppress it. Maybe this is possible in high enough doses, but not in that of what we use to enhance our health.

Right on, brother. The notion that DHEA supresses endogenous testosterone is based on the logic that because it can convert to testosterone (in small amounts), must mean that it can suppress it. Maybe this is possible in high enough doses, but not in that of what we use to enhance our health.

agree 100% ive actually seen some that showd increase in free testosterone, imo i think its one of the most underutilized supplements on the market

agree 100% ive actually seen some that showd increase in free testosterone, imo i think its one of the most underutilized supplements on the market

As a matter of fact, after stopping a 4-year period of on/off steroid use and abuse (some 12 week back to back cycles of 1,000mg/wk test, 900mg/wk EQ, 900/wk masteron prop, 50mg/day Proviron, 50mg/day tren ace, etc), I was severely feeling 'fatigued' to say the least. I got on AD v3 (FOCUS constituents) and with the 'super' preg and dhea, along with moderate exercise and diet, I was feeling better than when I was 18, keeping and making gains well into 8 months after stopping the gear, and my body was already back in a state of being not just recovered, but enhanced. Without numbers to back it up, I can safely, securely, and surely say that it was THE critical factor in my recovery.

As a matter of fact, after stopping a 4-year period of on/off steroid use and abuse (some 12 week back to back cycles of 1,000mg/wk test, 900mg/wk EQ, 900/wk masteron prop, 50mg/day Proviron, 50mg/day tren ace, etc), I was severely feeling 'fatigued' to say the least. I got on AD v3 (FOCUS constituents) and with the 'super' preg and dhea, along with moderate exercise and diet, I was feeling better than when I was 18, keeping and making gains well into 8 months after stopping the gear, and my body was already back in a state of being not just recovered, but enhanced. Without numbers to back it up, I can safely, securely, and surely say that it was THE critical factor in my recovery.

Thats great news to hear, plus not only does it have possible benefits for recovery body comp etc. it also has had a ton of research coming out about possible neuroprotective benefits. Most of the research Ive read was on rats and how it helps to prevent dementia (alzheimers), and also some preliminary results showing improved cognition in humans with mild cog deficits. That itself is worth its weight in gold

I have access here at work. Thanks though. That drop in Creatine Kinase expression from the 3rd day on is quite a compelling result, IMO. Too bad they didn't look at steroid levels other than T and DHEA-S; would've been interesting to see how those levels changed concommittantly.

yeah im surprised at some of the new stuff coming out, most of the studies in the late 90s and early 2000s showed no improvements in test levels but improvements in cortisol but failed to show sign results in body comp/muscle compared to placebo. I think most used untrained participants tho.

I think the new stuff coming out about exercise recovery and neuro benefits are compelling tho.

I am no chemist either but i believe it has to do with what they are broken down into in the body. I think 4-dhea has a higher conversion rate to test and therefore is more powerful but will [probably] shut you down more. I ve seen different variations of DHEA in prohormone products on the market so I am guessing they can manipulate them in manners to create greater anabolic properties.

It matters, depends on your goals. Your gonna have to do a little homework yourself on this one. If your just interested in replacing low DHEA from TRT then look into just DHEA. If you want something with [possibly more] hormonal infleunce I would suggest examining some of the sponsors on this board and asking them questions as a few make hormonal products based off DHEA.

I've been using DHEA for years primarily because oral DHEA seems to help overcome my tendency toward lethergy. Topical not so much. I typically take 100 mg/day. I personally like Diesel Test Pro because it also contains pregnenealone and DIM for E2 control plus a bunch of other goodies.

I've been using DHEA for years primarily because oral DHEA seems to help overcome my tendency toward lethergy. Topical not so much. I typically take 100 mg/day. I personally like Diesel Test Pro because it also contains pregnenealone and DIM for E2 control plus a bunch of other goodies.

Did you try 4-DHEA?

If so,have you noticed some difference with it compared to your regular DHEA supplementation?

I am going to learn more about 4-DHEA, as it's in one of the Androfactory products, but what I've read from researching on it when looking at PP's products, it converts to androstenedione and androstenediol. At the right dose, I've seen many users report good, quality gains with low, but not 'dry' gains. In my opinion, so long as prolactin is under control, there should be some water retention while gaining mass. Of course, when I'd cycle, I always tried to minimize it by inhibiting aromatase, taking natural diuretics, etc. but vanity can sometimes inhibit gains as well. I'd speculate that with the right delivery system, albeit oral delivery with enhanced absorption complex, or transdermal (reminds me of the 1-T/4AD transdermal that ROCKED), it can do a number on one's physique. Again, that's speculation and mostly reading up on old logs from the early to mid 2000's.

I've used AMS 1-andro and 4 AD in combo. It did absolutely nothing for me.

I looked into their products a while ago and was interested in seeing how the RDe or whatever it was, did. From what I saw from logs of those who weren't seasoned in PH/PS/DS, they did not seem to be satisfied with the purchase at the high end of the recommended dose (for the AD series), as the gains usually didn't pass above the standard deviation of what's typically expected from individual gains on a slightly increased caloric intake along with an increase in workload or volume, based on the prenotion that the hormone would actually work. That being said, PCT was also not a problem for any of the users I've noticed, so it's either a very good, subtle and overpriced 'product' in general acting as mostly an anti-catabolic - or - it did nothing more than placebo.

I've been using DHEA for years primarily because oral DHEA seems to help overcome my tendency toward lethergy. Topical not so much. I typically take 100 mg/day. I personally like Diesel Test Pro because it also contains pregnenealone and DIM for E2 control plus a bunch of other goodies.

I'm with you. For a while after ADv3 was gone, before FOCUS came out I was using DHEA and preg capsules, with lecithin, and a few other absorption 'enhancers' and grapefruit seed extract to increase the elimination half-life. I was happy in that it worked to an extent, but the FOCUS matrix blows it away and at 2 caps daily, it is fantastic.

I'm with you. For a while after ADv3 was gone, before FOCUS came out I was using DHEA and preg capsules, with lecithin, and a few other absorption 'enhancers' and grapefruit seed extract to increase the elimination half-life. I was happy in that it worked to an extent, but the FOCUS matrix blows it away and at 2 caps daily, it is fantastic.

Lecithin caps, I like that! FOG, keepin' it old school.

I still do the same thing stacked with some oil and miscibility promoters (probably similar to your concoction.) All nonGMO these days, of course.

I'm not sure if DHEA improves recovery per say, to any significant degree short of 200+mg/day, but it does discourage general catabolism from my experience.

I still do the same thing stacked with some oil and miscibility promoters (probably similar to your concoction.) All nonGMO these days, of course.

I'm not sure if DHEA improves recovery per say, to any significant degree short of 200+mg/day, but it does discourage general catabolism from my experience.

Dr. D, good to see you, again! That's awesome that you mention non-GMO, as I am working on the site www.monsantomovement.com (just purchased it a few days ago) and www.monsantoprotest.com. Most soy in the country is GMO, but NOW claims theirs is not.

Other than the anti-catabolic effects from DHEA from it's metabolites such as 7-keto-DHEA, it's effects on the brain are very awesome.

I've been using the stack of FOCUS ('super' dhea and 'super' preg *enanthoxylated*), Citicoline, alpha GPC, p-serine matrix (Serinaid 20%), coq10, and a couple others... I wanted to add that recently I've tried a 5 day course of noopept and pramiracetam (15mg noopept and 200mg pram) and I'll be damned. The feeling is indescribable.

I've been using the stack of FOCUS ('super' dhea and 'super' preg *enanthoxylated*), Citicoline, alpha GPC, p-serine matrix (Serinaid 20%), coq10, and a couple others... I wanted to add that recently I've tried a 5 day course of noopept and pramiracetam (15mg noopept and 200mg pram) and I'll be damned. The feeling is indescribable.

I'm glad you guys are interested in the stack and the reasons behind it. FOCUS is the foundation of the entire stack that I am utilizing. FOCUS is a product by Andro Factory that uses 'enhanced' forms of DHEA and pregnenolone, combined with a potent delivery system, that makes for the most effective neuroenhancing matrix that I've ever experienced. I started using the combination of these enanthoxylated forms of DHEA and pregnenolone just over a year ago, until that company that produced that product went out of business and now it is back with a new & improved delivery system, requiring less capsules per serving.
FOCUS by itself is what I would best describe as an 'neuro super-modulator', as it is the premier tool for optimizing the levels of almost EVERY single neurotransmitter in the brain and other hormones as well, ranging from GABA, dopamine, serotonin,... to cortisol, prolactin,... etc. It nourishes the adrenal glands and can be part of even the most advanced supplemental methods in sports nutrition science, including the metabolic overdrive, which utilizes pregnenlone, iodine, and some other compounds to completely 'reboot' thyroid function. I can't say enough about this product. It is also a stronghold for nootropics such as the racetams, as it modulates cholinergic channels and increases choline output.
I'm quoting myself from a post after I purchased FOCUS and started supplementing with it, before I was asked to be a representative for Andro Factory. I have been boasting and recommending this particular product alone for ANYONE and EVERYONE looking for a 'lifestyle enhancement' in all facets, as this product has changed my life.

I ordered a bottle of FOCUS immediately after I saw it was available. I thought it was too good to be true, but it's not. I got my bottle yesterday and I'm not disappointed. The way that I can decipher that it is working is by the way it culminates the effects of the choline I'm taking and some other things like p-serine. I've adjusted my choline intake by lowering the citicoline to 250mg in the morning, 900mg alpha gpc in the morning, and 1000mg p-serine (w/ p-choline in the Serinaid). I take 2 liquid caps in the morning with my handful of choline, p-serine, and coq10. Man, does it wrap up the gift basket and put a bow on top. My clarity of thoughts is razor-sharp, my memory is better with this cocktail than with Androdrive v3 alone, my motivation is sky high, and I find myself calmer and much more collected; Ready to take on the day. I received the bottle Monday afternoon and took 2 pills at around 1:30pm and this morning I took them at wakeup (8:00am). I am able to almost instantaneously recall some old memories, verbatim. Also, the synergy with the choline and the FOCUS gives me wicked, vivid, and lucid dreams while allowing me to operate on less hours of sleep with no decrease in cognitive function, but quite the inverse. I am feeling more on point than without this product. Enough ranting & raving for 1 post - 10 out of 10.

Without FOCUS, other nootropic supplements, other choline sources, etc. have not worked properly and now I can finally attain the benefits that they were intended to give, as FOCUS assures that all systems are running properly.

I'm glad you guys are interested in the stack and the reasons behind it. FOCUS is the foundation of the entire stack that I am utilizing. FOCUS is a product by Andro Factory that uses 'enhanced' forms of DHEA and pregnenolone, combined with a potent delivery system, that makes for the most effective neuroenhancing matrix that I've ever experienced. I started using the combination of these enanthoxylated forms of DHEA and pregnenolone just over a year ago, until that company that produced that product went out of business and now it is back with a new & improved delivery system, requiring less capsules per serving.
FOCUS by itself is what I would best describe as an 'neuro super-modulator', as it is the premier tool for optimizing the levels of almost EVERY single neurotransmitter in the brain and other hormones as well, ranging from GABA, dopamine, serotonin,... to cortisol, prolactin,... etc. It nourishes the adrenal glands and can be part of even the most advanced supplemental methods in sports nutrition science, including the metabolic overdrive, which utilizes pregnenlone, iodine, and some other compounds to completely 'reboot' thyroid function. I can't say enough about this product. It is also a stronghold for nootropics such as the racetams, as it modulates cholinergic channels and increases choline output.
I'm quoting myself from a post after I purchased FOCUS and started supplementing with it, before I was asked to be a representative for Andro Factory. I have been boasting and recommending this particular product alone for ANYONE and EVERYONE looking for a 'lifestyle enhancement' in all facets, as this product has changed my life.

Without FOCUS, other nootropic supplements, other choline sources, etc. have not worked properly and now I can finally attain the benefits that they were intended to give, as FOCUS assures that all systems are running properly.

Very interesting, I would like to hear more about this! Hopefully somebody (that's not a rep) can tell us about their experiance

Very interesting, I would like to hear more about this! Hopefully somebody (that's not a rep) can tell us about their experiance

I feel ya, brother! I need to build a trustworthy status with a representative before I will actually give merit to their experiences. I plan on doing my own write-up for my charity, non-profit project that's for those looking to attain a better life through reliable, healthy means. I look forward to our interaction, Alwaysfirst!