Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

I think you are overstating what an AHC team needs to do to get an at large. Remember, last year there were plenty of scenarios that gave the AHC 2 teams in the tournament. It didn't happen but it was close.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

The biggest influence on the PWR is the league's overall out of conference record. That's because the RPI essentially counts twice. It's one of the criteria, but it's also the tie breaker. The PWR tracks the RPI almost exactly, with a position or two switched because of head-to-head or common opponents.

RIT getting a win or two in these last three OOC games would help itself and the league both.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by komey1

I think you are overstating what an AHC team needs to do to get an at large. Remember, last year there were plenty of scenarios that gave the AHC 2 teams in the tournament. It didn't happen but it was close.

Exactly. Those scenarios involved either Robert Morris or Canisius getting in as an at large. RMU finished third, but still didn't have a great enough conference record to augment the impressive OOC record of 4-0-2 to warrant an at-large. Canisius had a fantastic conference record, but the 1-6-1 OOC record put an end to that. Air Force, on the other hand, had a great conference record and 3 OOC wins, earning them a 3 seed in the NCAA's, so likely could have been an at-large if they had not won the AHC tournament (depending to whom they may have lost).
I don't believe I overstated anything. I acknowledge the possibility of at-large bids, but am just clarifying that AHC teams need BOTH a top notch conference record and a decent OOC record in order to have a chance of a top-10 or top-15 finish. AHC games alone just don't get them enough credit in the PWR to get them in unless they win an overwhelming majority of them.
If RIT goes 0-5-1 in OOC, they are going to be hard pressed to get enough conference wins to earn a top-15 ranking. 3-2-1, on the other hand... then we're talking.

Last edited by TigerFan86-87; 11-15-2017 at 12:59 PM.

Can't we all just get along?
Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by TigerFan86-87

Exactly. Those scenarios involved either Robert Morris or Canisius getting in as an at large. RMU finished third, but still didn't have a great enough conference record to augment the impressive OOC record of 4-0-2 to warrant an at-large. Canisius had a fantastic conference record, but the 1-6-1 OOC record put an end to that. Air Force, on the other hand, had a great conference record and 3 OOC wins, earning them a 3 seed in the NCAA's, so likely could have been an at-large if they had not won the AHC tournament (depending to whom they may have lost).
I don't believe I overstated anything. I acknowledge the possibility of at-large bids, but am just clarifying that AHC teams need BOTH a top notch conference record and a decent OOC record in order to have a chance of a top-10 or top-15 finish. AHC games alone just don't get them enough credit in the PWR to get them in unless they win an overwhelming majority of them.
If RIT goes 0-5-1 in OOC, they are going to be hard pressed to get enough conference wins to earn a top-15 ranking. 3-2-1, on the other hand... then we're talking.

Air Force could have gotten in last season even with a loss to Robert Morris in the championship, but there were some other combinations that also had to happen.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by komey1

I think you are overstating what an AHC team needs to do to get an at large. Remember, last year there were plenty of scenarios that gave the AHC 2 teams in the tournament. It didn't happen but it was close.

The point is, it was close ... on the wrong side of the fence. And when it comes to playoff selections, close means bubkas.

Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?

Hi Turk, I actually met you at the HFH before a game, might of been last year when RIT visited. Anyway, in my opinion I’d say no but others might feel different. I look at the two schools being more like siblings than rivals as they compete for the same type of student. I think watching the two bands meld together at RIT kind of shows that. Smart nerdy kids for the most part at both schools. I do think that RIT’s co-op program is a big draw for many students and I wonder if it had anything to do with RPI starting this ARCH program to get more of their students out in the industry before graduation. Anyway that’s my opinion, I’m sure other fans here have other experiences.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by Downstate_RIT_Fan

Hi Turk, I actually met you at the HFH before a game, might of been last year when RIT visited. Anyway, in my opinion I’d say no but others might feel different. I look at the two schools being more like siblings than rivals as they compete for the same type of student. I think watching the two bands meld together at RIT kind of shows that. Smart nerdy kids for the most part at both schools. I do think that RIT’s co-op program is a big draw for many students and I wonder if it had anything to do with RPI starting this ARCH program to get more of their students out in the industry before graduation. Anyway that’s my opinion, I’m sure other fans here have other experiences.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by turk181

Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?

I do not recall hearing RIT being referred to as "RPI" too often. The more-common error is made by less-knowledgeable broadcasters/journalists referring to R.I.T. as "rit" (same pronunciation as writ). This error occurs frequently, as recent as a week ago when "espin" featured Mallory Rushton's OT/Penalty Shot winner over BU (yes, B.U. ... as opposed to "Boo" ) in a top-10 highlight segment. RPI is fortunate in that regard... I do not ever recall hearing RPI being referred to as "rippy", "erpy", "arpy", or any other 'lazy acronym' by a broadcaster.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by turk181

Question for any RIT fans, RPI has been referred to as “RIT” by so many broadcasters, journalists, etc. over the years, is RIT referred to as “RPI” as often?

No, but have had western fans see RIT on my hat / jersey and reference Albany in some way. To be fair, this was back in our D-III days. How do you follow college hockey and not have at least heard of RPI enough to spell it correctly?

Can't we all just get along?
Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by LtPowers

But what is it that makes five OOC losses worth more than five conference losses?
Powers &8^]

- More likely to be top-20.
- More common opponents with non AHC teams battling for the top-15 rankings.
- Usually better SOS and opponents' SOS (depending whom you put on your OOC schedule, of course).
- Big-4 conferences have better (in some cases much better) overall OOC records.

AHC usually occupies at least 5 to 6 of the last 10 to 15 places in the PWR for a reason.

Granted, all of these differences are not as large as they used to be between AHC/ WCHA and the Big-4, but for the most part they still exist. Baby steps. AHC may get there some day, but not yet.

Can't we all just get along?
Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

No, but have had western fans see RIT on my hat / jersey and reference Albany in some way. To be fair, this was back in our D-III days. How do you follow college hockey and not have at least heard of RPI enough to spell it correctly?

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by TigerFan86-87

- More likely to be top-20.
- More common opponents with non AHC teams battling for the top-15 rankings.
- Usually better SOS and opponents' SOS (depending whom you put on your OOC schedule, of course).
- Big-4 conferences have better (in some cases much better) overall OOC records.

Okay, the first two make sense, but the second two are only affected by who's on your schedule, not what your result is against any given team. In fact, losing to those teams helps their SOS.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

But what is it that makes five OOC losses worth more than five conference losses?
Powers &8^]

Think of it this way:

- Lose five conference games and when it comes time to compare in PWR against your conference-mates those are just a sub-sample of twenty-some games when doing PWR against conference-mates.

- Lose five non-conf games (say one against each conference, so you're 0-1 against that conference) when it comes common-opponents time in PWR you lost to a team from say the WCHA and any team in the WCHA that has a better record against that same team wins that PWR category against you.

Yes, not scientific, more of a thought exercise, but that's how it effectively plays out.

The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Think of the "opponent's opponents" segment of the RPI. If RIT loses to Air Force, Air Force is an "opponent's opponent" to every other conference team on our schedule. A loss to them actually helps RIT's "opponent's opponents" portion of the RPI because all of our other conference brethren also play Air Force who now has a slightly stronger record. If RIT plays just 1 team from another conference (additionally say that no one else from our conference plays that team) and loses, then the win for that team does not affect our "opponent's opponents" segment of the RPI at all because we don't play anyone else that played against that team.

Sorry if this isn't very clear. I'm having trouble getting the wording correct for clarity's sake here. Another way to look at it is that the overall conference record of all in-conference games is going to always be .500. The only way to improve the overall conference record (a big component of both opponent's record and opponent's opponents record) is for the teams in the conference to win non-conference games.

Originally Posted by The Sicatoka

Think of it this way:

- Lose five conference games and when it comes time to compare in PWR against your conference-mates those are just a sub-sample of twenty-some games when doing PWR against conference-mates.

- Lose five non-conf games (say one against each conference, so you're 0-1 against that conference) when it comes common-opponents time in PWR you lost to a team from say the WCHA and any team in the WCHA that has a better record against that same team wins that PWR category against you.

Yes, not scientific, more of a thought exercise, but that's how it effectively plays out.

Common opponents actually never comes into play unless you have a head to head meeting against a team as well. The only way to lose a pairwise comparison to a team that has a worse RPI than you is to both lose a head to head game AND lose the common opponents tiebreaker.

Look at the current pairwise: it literally tracks 1-61 in RPI rank. As (I think) Ed said earlier, RPI is by far the most important component of the pairwise. Get a top 10-15 RPI, and you will be in the discussion.

Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

Originally Posted by blazer777

How gassed was the team in the third period?
I shut off the broadcast in the second but it seems they hung close

Based on Coach Wilson's quotation in the RIT press release, they didn't play well. Though the release itself says they fought hard for the equalizer with the extra attacker but couldn't get the puck in.