It's better than what Michaels kids get to see a headstone with a name.

Exactly.

Katherine Jackson told Alan Duke there is not a day that goes by she doesn't think about her son and cries. She also told him that MJs children talk about their father everyday. She said they tell her 'daddy did so and so this way or daddy did that.' :) and she said she sees so much of MJs creativity in his children. They probably give her the strength to go on.

A mother is just not suppose to outlive their beloved children.:heartluv:

peace9274

11-07-2011, 11:33 PM

I keep hearing in my head "Don't Worry."

"Don't worry. The troot shall prevail."

Dum-Dum Sucker

11-07-2011, 11:58 PM

My heart breaks for his mom. Imagine how proud she was when he became a doctor and look at what she had to witness today in court. Her son being handcuffed and taken away to jail.

My heart breaks for Michael's family. They had to witness Michael's casket being being taken away to the cemetery.

TxLady2

11-08-2011, 12:35 AM

Exactly.

Katherine Jackson told Alan Duke there is not a day that goes by she doesn't think about her son and cries. She also told him that MJs children talk about their father everyday. She said they tell her 'daddy did so and so this way or daddy did that.' :) and she said she sees so much of MJs creativity in his children. They probably give her the strength to go on.

A mother is just not suppose to outlive their beloved children.:heartluv:

My heart goes out to Catherine, I just want to hug her. I'm sure she will grieve for her son till her last breath.
My grandmother who died at age 99, outlived 3 of her 9 children, one when he was only 6 mos. old. She once told me that there is no other loss quite as bad as giving up your child, and I'm sure there are some here who would agree.
I feel bad for his children as well, but I am so thankful they have their grandparents and aunts and uncles. Michael will be missed by many, many fans but NONE of them will miss him more than his family will.

borndem

11-08-2011, 12:37 AM

Will Murray be able to get any Propofol to sleep better in the clink?

Well, his GF's house should be full of it. She can pack some in her instrument and bring it to him when she visits. There oughtta be a couple of gallons back home. With plenty of IV tubing.... Now that he knows about the little hang-tab thingie, set-up ought to be quick & easy for him. Enuff for a lotta bunkmates.

One more reason for me not to like MSNBC. If Murray wanted his side of the story to be told; he should have testified.

NBC, MSNBC, Australian broadcaster Nine Network and UK net Channel 4 are among the broadcasters that will rush to air a documentary boasting exclusive access to Dr Conrad Murray (pictured), who was today convicted for the involuntary manslaughter of late singer Michael Jackson.

Michael Jackson and the Doctor: A Fatal Friendship (1 x 50-minutes) and an accompanying exclusive news interview with Murray (1 x 15-minutes) have both been produced by UK indie October Films, in association with What’s It All About? Productions.

The documentary, from director Tom Roberts, promises to explore “the surreal world inhabited by Jackson in the last three months of his life,” while also examining “his fatal friendship with the doctor he handpicked to care for himself and his children.”

My heart breaks for Michael's family. They had to witness Michael's casket being being taken away to the cemetery.

I agree but the most heartbreaking moment for me was hearing the testimony about Paris and Prince entering the bedroom and Paris screaming "daddy". I can actually visualize it. :(

Credence

11-08-2011, 01:06 AM

Well, his GF's house should be full of it. She can pack some in her instrument and bring it to him when she visits. There oughtta be a couple of gallons back home. With plenty of IV tubing.... Now that he knows about the little hang-tab thingie, set-up ought to be quick & easy for him. Enuff for a lotta bunkmates.

I do hope you realize that the search warrant which spoke about the aliases and other doctors were from drugs confiscated in 2004 during MJ's molestation trial. The doctors were all investigated and there was insufficient evidence to charge them. In addition to that as Dr. Metzger testified, he had not even seen MJ in 5 years. After the trial, MJ left the country and when he came back he resided in Vegas until he came back to CA in October, 2008. Murray was his primary physician while he was in Vegas.

Investigators find insufficient evidence against physicians and a nurse who prescribed drugs to King of Pop; Conrad Murray will face trial in the fall

I do, too.
And I've always felt bad for his kids; that he wasn't there for them nor provided for them.

doubt

11-08-2011, 02:04 AM

That is irrelevant to this case.

No other drugs were found in MJs system at the time of his death but what Murray prescribed and said he administered to him.

A lot of the bottles still had pills left in them and some were gotten way back in 2008.

Even the Judge in ANSs case said a doctor must treat someone that has legitimate pain or emotional issues.

Millions of people take meds for insomnia in our country.

IMO

irrelevant? not hardly. wow.

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 02:17 AM

I do, too.
And I've always felt bad for his kids; that he wasn't there for them nor provided for them.

Yes, if one of my sons abandoned his kids and didn't support them, I'd kick his *** from here to kingdom come.

Did anyone see that creep on Dr. Drew tonight, the Houston lawyer, Charles Peckham, who said that David Walgren has blood on his hands for taking Murray away from his patients in Acres Homes? Yes indeed, he said that! I guess he forgot the part about Murray abandoning those same folks while chasing the almighty dollar.

As I've pointed out previously, Miss Ruby said 75 percent of the folks in Acres Homes were on Social Security or Medicaid. Which means they were covered by Medicare or Medicaid. So, all of this BS about Murray giving away all of his services for free was a bunch of hooey. He may have helped some folks who fell between the cracks, but it's not like he was working for nothing in Acres Homes, or Las Vegas for that matter.

And that sleazeball Rickey Brian Oxman is all over the place opining on everything. Rickey Brian has been in and out of trouble with the California Bar for his own ethical problems. http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/72172 I wouldn't be fawning over his words either, Dr. Drew!!!

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 02:20 AM

At least 3 of Dr. Drews celebrity rehab patients have died, and many others have been rearrested. So his method isn't perfect. IMO I don't think anything can stop someone with money, the individual has to want it.

I am only aware of the one guy that died, the fellow who used to be on Taxi. Who are the other two?

Crosby87

11-08-2011, 02:33 AM

Doctor Murray surrendered his passport and medical license to the Court because these were conditions of his bail. Although I don't disagree with the Judge's decision to incarcerate Dr. Murray, I doubt Dr. Murray could leave the country cause he doesn't have a passport or any money for that matter so he wouldn't be able to escape imo.

At the 3:20 mm in this video, Judge Pastor said “even though Dr. Murray is a medical doctor and even though he has been practicing……” BUT Judge Pastor suspended
Dr. Murray’s medical license in January 2011 after he originally stated he didn’t have the power to so as a condition of bail. Dr. Murray was forced to close his medical clinics and afaik he has not practiced since which reduced the risk he would reoffend if he remained free until his sentencing hearing.

I just finished reading some of the posts here, then checked to see what was on the news stns before calling it a day...
and found that "This Is It" is on vh1-HD! It had been on for an hour already, but still had an hour and half left.
I wish I could've seen it from the beginning.

It is so amazing to watch him, now... after thinking about him and talking about him and writing about him
so much all these past weeks. Michael sure does not look drugged, or sick or fatigued. He just looks so fantastic!!!
And so energetic, so healthy. He's talking very coherently and his thoughts and mind seem very sharp.

He's so talented !!! So so so much talent!

I feel so sad right now.

Watching him... and all the other people in the movie - the musicians, singers, dancers, directors & stage crew -
and how he interacted with all of them. How he made them laugh. And they made him laugh. And yet, every single
person who worked with him is so professional and so together.

They all just adored him.

I really really am sad. I could just cry my eyes out right now.

azwriter

11-08-2011, 03:15 AM

Yes, if one of my sons abandoned his kids and didn't support them, I'd kick his *** from here to kingdom come.

Did anyone see that creep on Dr. Drew tonight, the Houston lawyer, Charles Peckham, who said that David Walgren has blood on his hands for taking Murray away from his patients in Acres Homes? Yes indeed, he said that! I guess he forgot the part about Murray abandoning those same folks while chasing the almighty dollar.

As I've pointed out previously, Miss Ruby said 75 percent of the folks in Acres Homes were on Social Security or Medicaid. Which means they were covered by Medicare or Medicaid. So, all of this BS about Murray giving away all of his services for free was a bunch of hooey. He may have helped some folks who fell between the cracks, but it's not like he was working for nothing in Acres Homes, or Las Vegas for that matter.

And that sleazeball Rickey Brian Oxman is all over the place opining on everything. Rickey Brian has been in and out of trouble with the California Bar for his own ethical problems. http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/72172 I wouldn't be fawning over his words either, Dr. Drew!!!

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks Oxman is sleazy. All through this trial and immediately following MJ's death, I got the feeling Oxman loved being in the limelight to talk about His experiences with MJ. He always looked so smug and delighted to be spotlighed to comment on these entertainment/news shows. I reached a point that when he spoke, I mentally tuned him out. Gives me the creeps.
just my O

azwriter

11-08-2011, 03:34 AM

I just finished up reading some of the posts here, then checked to see what was on the news stns before calling it a day...
and found that "This Is It" is on vh1-HD! It had been on for an hour already, but still had an hour and half left.
I wish I could've seen it from the beginning.

It is so amazing to watch him, now... after thinking about him and talking about him and writing about him
so much all these past weeks. Michael sure does not look drugged, or sick or fatigued. He just looks so fantastic!!!
And so energetic, so healthy. He's talking very coherently and his thoughts and mind seem very sharp.

He's so talented !!! So so so much talent!

I feel so sad right now.

Watching him... and all the other people in the movie - the musicians, singers, dancers, directors & stage crew -
and how he interacted with all of them. How he made them laugh. And they made him laugh. And yet, every single
person who worked with him is so professional and so together.

They all just adored him.

I really really am sad. I could just cry my eyes out right now.

Sorry for your sadness Peace. We bought "This is It" the moment it went on sale. And yes it is marvelous.

But, it's also an excellent example of editing.
If you notice the specific numbers where MJ performs, there were many scenes edited in (shown by him wearing different clothing which meant these scenes were compiled from different nights of rehearsal). I can't recall one number where it isn't made up of from different rehearsals.

Of course the people who put out this DVD would want to show MJ only in his best form. And the editing that was done was so on cue it's an unbelievable art form.

After studing the DVD and watching the trial and hearing the testimony, I have come to believe that we really never knew Michael's real medical condition. "This is It" only shows the best moments of his nights on stage.
Knowing what went on in that bedroom, if we know all of it, is indeed very sad. Doctor or not, it's clear Murray did not know what he was doing in giving this drug. If he did, he would have refused to be part of this all and known the dangers of doing this outside a hospital or medical setting.

Sorry for your sadness Peace. We bought "This is It" the moment it went on sale. And yes it is marvelous.

But, it's also an excellent example of editing.
If you notice the specific numbers where MJ performs, there were many scenes edited in (shown by him wearing different clothing which meant these scenes were compiled from different nights of rehearsal). I can't recall one number where it isn't made up of from different rehearsals.

Of course the people who put out this DVD would want to show MJ only in his best form. And the editing that was done was so on cue it's an unbelievable art form.

After studing the DVD and watching the trial and hearing the testimony, I have come to believe that we really never knew Michael's real medical condition. "This is It" only shows the best moments of his nights on stage.
Knowing what went on in that bedroom, if we know all of it, is indeed very sad. Doctor or not, it's clear Murray did not know what he was doing in giving this drug. If he did, he would have refused to be part of this all and known the dangers of doing this outside a hospital or medical setting.

What a great loss to all of us.

just my O

Geez. Cannot sleep again ....... grrr

Anyway have to disagree on the video and rehearsals. The Defense Team actually met with SONY for two weeks to review ALL of the clips from the rehearsals in an attempt to find bad clips to show that he was not in best form. They had boxes of film. They could not find even just ONE. All attorneys agreed that even a "bad" rehearsal was good and wound up not being able to use anything that would show MJ in a bad light. This was discussed in open court in a pre-trial hearing. If he was sick; he was not at rehearsal.

Jurors in the upcoming trial of Conrad Murray will not see unreleased footage of Michael’s final rehearsals, a judge ruled Monday. The defense had conceded the raw video did not depict the singer as sickly. Lawyers for Murray had reviewed 100 hours of outtakes from the Sony Pictures documentary This Is It for video consistent with their theory that a desperate Michael Jackson accidentally caused his own overdose from a surgical anesthetic.

But in comments to the media last week that he reiterated in court Monday, defense lawyer J. Michael Flanagan said Michael appeared healthy in rehearsals. “Even on his bad days, he’s good,” Flanagan said. He argued that jurors should still see four hours of footage that showed Michael was often absent from practice sessions in the 10 days before his death, but Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor disagreed and granted Sony’s request to quash the defense subpoenas.

http://www.legendarymichaeljackson.nl/?p=5528

Credence

11-08-2011, 04:36 AM

Yes, if one of my sons abandoned his kids and didn't support them, I'd kick his *** from here to kingdom come.

Did anyone see that creep on Dr. Drew tonight, the Houston lawyer, Charles Peckham, who said that David Walgren has blood on his hands for taking Murray away from his patients in Acres Homes? Yes indeed, he said that! I guess he forgot the part about Murray abandoning those same folks while chasing the almighty dollar.

As I've pointed out previously, Miss Ruby said 75 percent of the folks in Acres Homes were on Social Security or Medicaid. Which means they were covered by Medicare or Medicaid. So, all of this BS about Murray giving away all of his services for free was a bunch of hooey. He may have helped some folks who fell between the cracks, but it's not like he was working for nothing in Acres Homes, or Las Vegas for that matter.

And that sleazeball Rickey Brian Oxman is all over the place opining on everything. Rickey Brian has been in and out of trouble with the California Bar for his own ethical problems. http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/72172 I wouldn't be fawning over his words either, Dr. Drew!!!

Yes -- I saw that and thought exactly what you said. He sure did not worry about those patients he cared for sooo much that he was leaving the practice for at least 13 months. I also agree with you re: Medicaid and Medicare and the hospital staff and facilities have to be paid for as well. I recall one guy saying he had insurance so perhaps he just wasn't charged the normal co-payment. I would bet that is all that was meant by "free. I also did not hear any of his patients say they received a 2nd opinion on getting those stents either. Seems to me he had a regular "stent' market going on. This should be investigated too when it goes before the Medical Board to determine whether or not he gets to keep his licenses.

Peckham really should be ashamed of himself for making that statement about Walgren too. To people like us who have followed the trial; we know the deal and the truth; but in a national format -- it was very low on his part to make such a statement.

Credence

11-08-2011, 04:43 AM

[/B]

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks Oxman is sleazy. All through this trial and immediately following MJ's death, I got the feeling Oxman loved being in the limelight to talk about His experiences with MJ. He always looked so smug and delighted to be spotlighed to comment on these entertainment/news shows. I reached a point that when he spoke, I mentally tuned him out. Gives me the creeps.
just my O

Yes -- Mesereau got wise to him early on and kicked him off the defense team during MJ's molestation trial as well as Raymone Bain too.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 04:57 AM

Geez. Cannot sleep again ....... grrr

Anyway have to disagree on the video and rehearsals. The Defense Team actually met with SONY for two weeks to review ALL of the clips from the rehearsals in an attempt to find bad clips to show that he was not in best form. They had boxes of film. They could not find even just ONE. All attorneys agreed that even a "bad" rehearsal was good and wound up not being able to use anything that would show MJ in a bad light. This was discussed in open court in a pre-trial hearing. If he was sick; he was not at rehearsal.

Jurors in the upcoming trial of Conrad Murray will not see unreleased footage of Michael’s final rehearsals, a judge ruled Monday. The defense had conceded the raw video did not depict the singer as sickly. Lawyers for Murray had reviewed 100 hours of outtakes from the Sony Pictures documentary This Is It for video consistent with their theory that a desperate Michael Jackson accidentally caused his own overdose from a surgical anesthetic.

But in comments to the media last week that he reiterated in court Monday, defense lawyer J. Michael Flanagan said Michael appeared healthy in rehearsals. “Even on his bad days, he’s good,” Flanagan said. He argued that jurors should still see four hours of footage that showed Michael was often absent from practice sessions in the 10 days before his death, but Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor disagreed and granted Sony’s request to quash the defense subpoenas.

http://www.legendarymichaeljackson.nl/?p=5528

Well, how's that for Karma!

You weren't able to sleep, Credence, because (IMO), it meant
that you were to get up and write that post just for my benefit! :)

I had closed up after "This Is It" was over and went to bed.
But I just kept thinking about the editing of the film, as outofstatelawyer
had described it... and that maybe there was a lot of footage not
included in the film, because of how MJ looked or behaved.

I couldn't get it off my mind and kept imagining MJ being in poor health, physically & mentally.
So I had to get up to shake off all that was racing in my mind. ("Move a muscle, change a thought!").

I came back here to see if anyone else was here and saw your post! It was a great read!!
I'm so relieved I did and I'm so grateful that you told (me) all about the attys going through
boxes of film and that they couldn't find anything that showed MJ was suffering in any way.

So now after reading it, I feel much better about MJ during the rehearsals and I know I'll be able to fall asleep now!! :)

Anyway, thank you for that, Credence!! You'll probably be able to get some sleep now, too... knowing that you sure helped me!!! :)

RayStar

11-08-2011, 06:59 AM

Oh well Dr. Murray will probably get the harshest sentence the law will permit. What a shame. Michael needed some mental help to assist him in his inability to sleep. Fame for him was not easy to handle.

~n/t~

11-08-2011, 07:13 AM

Geez. Cannot sleep again ....... grrr

Anyway have to disagree on the video and rehearsals. The Defense Team actually met with SONY for two weeks to review ALL of the clips from the rehearsals in an attempt to find bad clips to show that he was not in best form. They had boxes of film. They could not find even just ONE. All attorneys agreed that even a "bad" rehearsal was good and wound up not being able to use anything that would show MJ in a bad light. This was discussed in open court in a pre-trial hearing. If he was sick; he was not at rehearsal.

Jurors in the upcoming trial of Conrad Murray will not see unreleased footage of Michael’s final rehearsals, a judge ruled Monday. The defense had conceded the raw video did not depict the singer as sickly. Lawyers for Murray had reviewed 100 hours of outtakes from the Sony Pictures documentary This Is It for video consistent with their theory that a desperate Michael Jackson accidentally caused his own overdose from a surgical anesthetic.

But in comments to the media last week that he reiterated in court Monday, defense lawyer J. Michael Flanagan said Michael appeared healthy in rehearsals. “Even on his bad days, he’s good,” Flanagan said. He argued that jurors should still see four hours of footage that showed Michael was often absent from practice sessions in the 10 days before his death, but Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor disagreed and granted Sony’s request to quash the defense subpoenas.

http://www.legendarymichaeljackson.nl/?p=5528

bbm

If he was absent because he was sick how would that show up on rehearsal video? He wasn't there.

AEG was very concerned about his absence. They had a lot of money at stake here.

~n/t~

11-08-2011, 07:30 AM

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM...oh and his bodyguards, surely someone saw the meds, and the drip and his condition............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

Talina

11-08-2011, 07:34 AM

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

BBM

I'm curious about your stance on the pharmacists. If a person is using an alias to get prescription medications, how does a pharmacist know that is an alias? Of course, the physician knows since he/she is the one that saw the patient and prescribed the drug but how does the pharmacist know it is an alias?

I can see how doctors could be in trouble for this sort of thing but I don't get how a pharmacist is also liable.

IMO

~n/t~

11-08-2011, 07:42 AM

BBM

I'm curious about your stance on the pharmacists. If a person is using an alias to get prescription medications, how does a pharmacist know that is an alias? Of course, the physician knows since he/she is the one that saw the patient and prescribed the drug but how does the pharmacist know it is an alias?

I can see how doctors could be in trouble for this sort of thing but I don't get how a pharmacist is also liable.

IMO

That's a good question. Obviously, the system doesn't work. I don't have the answers. Maybe it will take a few more deaths for someone to say "Hey, wait a sec, there is something terribly wrong here" and then do something about it. Someone was filling his prescriptions. Someone was lying for him.

angelmom

11-08-2011, 07:47 AM

BBM

I'm curious about your stance on the pharmacists. If a person is using an alias to get prescription medications, how does a pharmacist know that is an alias? Of course, the physician knows since he/she is the one that saw the patient and prescribed the drug but how does the pharmacist know it is an alias?

I can see how doctors could be in trouble for this sort of thing but I don't get how a pharmacist is also liable.

IMO

I will admit that I haven't followed this case closely, but I have wondered all along...if the propofol (sp?) is NEVER EVER administered outside of a hospital setting, how did CM get it? How did Michael get it before CM? Was it stolen?

B/c I think whoever was supposed to be in charge of THAT should be in trouble as well.

~n/t~

11-08-2011, 07:51 AM

I will admit that I haven't followed this case closely, but I have wondered all along...if the propofol (sp?) is NEVER EVER administered outside of a hospital setting, how did CM get it? How did Michael get it before CM? Was it stolen?

B/c I think whoever was supposed to be in charge of THAT should be in trouble as well.

Here you go...........

UPDATE 12:00 p.m.: Lopez said that Murray placed an initial order with him for 10 vials of propofol, at 100 ml each, and 25 vials of 20 ml each, which were ultimately delivered to the Santa Monica apartment he shared with Alvarez in early April. Just a few weeks later, in that same month, he reordered a total of 65 vials of propofol—four trays, or 40 vials of 100 ml and 25 vials of 20 ml—were were delivered to the same address. Testimony has recessed for a lunch break and will resume at 1:30 p.m. PT.

UPDATE 11:45 a.m.: Lopez said that he provided prescription creams to Murray for a patient suffering from vitiligo, but did not know the patient's name. He also said that Murray asked him to price and source the availability of propofol for Murray's medical use. Murray then placed a phone order for propofol on

ETA: Lopez is a pharmacist All those meds delivered to a HOME address! Not a clinic. Not a hospital.

Correct but Lopez testified that Dr. Murray told him they were being delivered to his clinic in Los Angeles. He never told him they were going to his girlfriend's apartment. Lopez even offered one time to hand deliver them to Los Angeles instead of shipping them from Las Vegas since he was heading to LA on business and Dr. Murray declined the offer and told him to just ship them as he had in the past (IMO Dr. Murray did not want him to know it was not a clinic).

IMO

Talina

11-08-2011, 08:12 AM

I will admit that I haven't followed this case closely, but I have wondered all along...if the propofol (sp?) is NEVER EVER administered outside of a hospital setting, how did CM get it? How did Michael get it before CM? Was it stolen?

B/c I think whoever was supposed to be in charge of THAT should be in trouble as well.

BBM

As far as we know to this point, MJ was never administered this before outside a clinical setting. Nurse Lee testified that MJ told her that he'd had it before and knew it was safe as long as he was properly monitored while he was getting it. Nurse Lee said she told MJ that no one that cared about him would ever give him this in his home.

I honestly do not think that MJ thought Dr. Murray would not be there monitoring him while he was administering the propofol. Dr. Murray clearly knew what all monitoring equipment he should have since he had listed this equipment as being needed in London. He just didn't have it in MJs bedroom in California. That makes me wonder if MJ knew what all equipment should be there for the proper monitoring or if Dr. Murray convinced him that he'd never leave his side so it wasn't all needed. We'll never know.

IMO

~n/t~

11-08-2011, 08:14 AM

Correct but Lopez testified that Dr. Murray told him they were being delivered to his clinic in Los Angeles. He never told him they were going to his girlfriend's apartment. Lopez even offered one time to hand deliver them to Los Angeles instead of shipping them from Las Vegas since he was heading to LA on business and Dr. Murray declined the offer and told him to just ship them as he had in the past (IMO Dr. Murray did not want him to know it was not a clinic).

IMO

Are you saying Lopez didn't know the address he was shipping to wasn't a hospital or a clinic ?

Talina

11-08-2011, 08:15 AM

That's a good question. Obviously, the system doesn't work. I don't have the answers. Maybe it will take a few more deaths for someone to say "Hey, wait a sec, there is something terribly wrong here" and then do something about it. Someone was filling his prescriptions. Someone was lying for him.

It seems to me like this would be illegal for the doctors to prescribe to aliases. However, the DEA did an investigation into all of this and found that nothing done rose to the level of them filing charges against any of the doctors. So perhaps there are allowances in certain circumstances for a doctor to prescribe and keep medical records on an alias as long as they cross reference to who the actual person is (remember there were references in some of the medical records presented at trial for those aliases that linked them back to MJ)

IMO

Talina

11-08-2011, 08:16 AM

Are you saying Lopez didn't know the address he was shipping to wasn't a hospital or a clinic ?

Yes. That is what I'm saying and that is what the testimony was from Lopez. He did NOT know the shipping address was Nicole Alvarez's apartment. Dr. Murray told him it was his clinic in Los Angeles.

ETA: IIRC Lopez even said that had he known this was not going to a clinic and was being sent to be used on one patient that he would have never shipped the drugs that Dr. Murray ordered.

Thank you for music to wake up to, Peace! I simply never grow tired of seeing such an amazingly talented man.

As I watched him perform it made me think of the terrible impact his knees and body had to withstand for all those years. He later had to be in pain from doing such grueling songs over and over again during his long career.

IMO

angelmom

11-08-2011, 09:16 AM

Yes. That is what I'm saying and that is what the testimony was from Lopez. He did NOT know the shipping address was Nicole Alvarez's apartment. Dr. Murray told him it was his clinic in Los Angeles.

ETA: IIRC Lopez even said that had he known this was not going to a clinic and was being sent to be used on one patient that he would have never shipped the drugs that Dr. Murray ordered.

I'm sorry, but this is a LAME excuse. Google maps, anyone?

I just think there should be much tighter controls on stuff like this. That's what computers are for. Maybe 20 years ago, but not now. You know, the media has made such a big deal about how this drug is NEVER EVER used outside of a hospital setting but, really, how do we know? How many drug addicts OD and no one ever really pays that much attention to why/how? How many other people are pulling this exact same stunt but have so far managed to escape death and/or detection? If no one is really keeping track, then how can they say that?

While I agree that Dr. Murray made a horrible choice, there are so many other people to blame in this situation. And even my 11yoDD knows better.

I was trying to explain it to her and she said, "Well it's at least a little bit Michael Jackson's fault for taking drugs."

I could only respond, "You are a very wise little girl."

oceanblueeyes

11-08-2011, 09:49 AM

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM...oh and his bodyguards, surely someone saw the meds, and the drip and his condition............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

I really think that the media shaped MJ into being something they wanted him to be and he was not and some in society believed it hook, line and sinker. Everything he did was made to look bizarre and sinister by the media simply because it brought them in billions and MJ has always been their favorite cash cow and even photos of his children. That is what is very sad to me. That the media is so powerful and knows it and knows it can sway public opinion even though based on lies for profit.:furious:

Yes, I remember him having to show up in his PJs. Tom Mes. has talked about that several times and they had no choice but to bring him from the hospital to the courtroom in his PJs because the Judge said he had to be there then. For years MJ had suffered from back pain from falls in a couple of his performances.

What is sad is MJ had to cover the faces of his children so their photos wouldn't land on a tabloid or gossip site and splattered around the world.:banghead: He tried to protect them the best way he could.

But even the media can come to the realization that they were bottom feeders and really preyed on a man who was just trying to be the best father he could be to his children.

Michael was thoroughly investigated by FCS and was found to be a competent parent to raise his children. If one thing has been brought out in all of this tragedy is he raised his children extremely well and their love for him is boundless and deep. So while the media made him out to be something else the ones who really knew him knew he was a sweet, loving, kind and gentle soul. That has been so obvious by all the ones that REALLY knew him personally who have spoken out in the last couple of years.

We heard it all for years regurgitated over and over. 1. MJ wanted to be white.:innocent: 2. MJ didn't have a skin disorder.:innocent: 3. MJ wasnt a good father:innocent: and I could go on and on about the media myths put out about MJ. He was their paycheck and the more outlandish they made him seem the more they profited.

However; things have changed, and we know, and the media knows we know, that a lot of what they spoon fed society for years was not true about MJ. Plus the FBI released their long years of investigation on Michael finding absolutely no criminal wrongdoing whatsoever. Hard for the media to refute the FBIs finding when the FBI had no motive to protect MJ nor would they have... had he been guilty of one little thing.

So imo a lot of the media has regrets about how they vilified this gentle sensitive man and really a mind who is able to change when the facts are presented is a wonderful thing. I am finally glad to see the media looking at the real MJ instead of the one they 'invented' for profits.

I think some forget that MJ would have pain and medical issues just like anyone else his age. A doctor must treat legitimate issues. 19 aliases, although those were never verified as all belonging to MJ, wasnt all that much if they started back when he was burned in the 80s. As I have mentioned before even the Judge over the ANS case said it is a common practice to protect the confidentiality of the celebrity.

A guy said on tv yesterday the paparazzi goes through doctor's dumpsters looking for evidence who they are treating and for what. Now that IS bizarre. None of us has to even worry about such exposure.

Walgren said there is absolutely no evidence that another doctor besides Murray.. gave propofol in MJs bedroom. It doesn't make sense that the security guards or staff would see it since they were not even allowed on the 2nd floor of the home without permission.

While he had other doctors in the past 20 years those doctors did not administer propofol in his bedroom and then abandon him leaving him to die.

Murray is NOT the fall guy. He IS the guy that killed MJ. Justice was indeed served yesterday!

Talina

11-08-2011, 10:07 AM

I really think that the media shaped MJ into being something they wanted him to be and he was not and some in society believed it hook, line and sinker.

Murray is NOT the fall guy. He IS the guy that killed MJ. Justice was indeed served yesterday!

Respectfully snipped for space.

Thank you for that post Oceanblueeyes. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.

TxLady2

11-08-2011, 10:23 AM

Sorry for your sadness Peace. We bought "This is It" the moment it went on sale. And yes it is marvelous.

But, it's also an excellent example of editing.
If you notice the specific numbers where MJ performs, there were many scenes edited in (shown by him wearing different clothing which meant these scenes were compiled from different nights of rehearsal). I can't recall one number where it isn't made up of from different rehearsals.

Of course the people who put out this DVD would want to show MJ only in his best form. And the editing that was done was so on cue it's an unbelievable art form.

After studing the DVD and watching the trial and hearing the testimony, I have come to believe that we really never knew Michael's real medical condition. "This is It" only shows the best moments of his nights on stage.
Knowing what went on in that bedroom, if we know all of it, is indeed very sad. Doctor or not, it's clear Murray did not know what he was doing in giving this drug. If he did, he would have refused to be part of this all and known the dangers of doing this outside a hospital or medical setting.

What a great loss to all of us.

just my O

Agree, it's pretty clear that Murray did not know what he was doing as far as giving him the propofol. He could have said No, he could have told him he wasn't trained or experienced in administering a general anesthetic. I liked the analogy from one MJ fan yesterday. She said it's like if someone tells you to rob a bank for them, and convinces you they need the money so bad, that you let them talk you into it and you rob the bank... it's still your fault, because you could have refused.

It's a shame that Dr. Murray was more interested in the money and fame than he was in his patient. It's a shame that he walked away from Michael's bedside just when he needed him the most. It's a shame that he chose to administer a drug that he was not equipped to give anyone, and without the proper emergency equipment needed. EVEN IF he had given it to him for the preceding months and nothing happened, that is no guarantee that it wouldn't happen at some point. He should have been right there beside the bed, ready to do whatever was necessary to save his life, instead of in another room talking on the phone.

TxLady2

11-08-2011, 10:39 AM

Respectfully snipped for space.

Thank you for that post Oceanblueeyes. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.

And SO DO I!!! Very well said!!

CarolinaMoon

11-08-2011, 10:58 AM

Chernoff was right! Flannagan up in 10:00 hour of InSession.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Talina
Respectfully snipped for space.

Thank you for that post Oceanblueeyes. I wholeheartedly agree with all you said.

And SO DO I!!! Very well said!!

OCEANBLUEEYES, I'm third to say I agree with you and that it's very well said!!

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10446/applause.gif

peace9274

11-08-2011, 11:05 AM

Well, how's that for Karma!

You weren't able to sleep, Credence, because (IMO), it meant
that you were to get up and write that post just for my benefit! :)

I had closed up after "This Is It" was over and went to bed.
But I just kept thinking about the editing of the film, as outofstatelawyer
had described it... and that maybe there was a lot of footage not
included in the film, because of how MJ looked or behaved.

I couldn't get it off my mind and kept imagining MJ being in poor health, physically & mentally.
So I had to get up to shake off all that was racing in my mind. ("Move a muscle, change a thought!").

I came back here to see if anyone else was here and saw your post! It was a great read!!
I'm so relieved I did and I'm so grateful that you told (me) all about the attys going through
boxes of film and that they couldn't find anything that showed MJ was suffering in any way.

So now after reading it, I feel much better about MJ during the rehearsals and I know I'll be able to fall asleep now!! :)

Anyway, thank you for that, Credence!! You'll probably be able to get some sleep now, too... knowing that you sure helped me!!! :)

ETA: It's now 5 hrs later and just want to say thanx again to Credence...
I slept very well for those 5 hrs!

CarolinaMoon

11-08-2011, 11:16 AM

Proof positive. Flanagan is in New York. He's spouting off about how Poor Conrad Murray only made a mistake in judgement.

As for not appearing: he's appeared every time. He has no passport and other states can extradite him if he leaves the state!

There's a whole lot of diminishing his role in Jackson's death. He was MJ's friend and only wanted to help him, yadda yadda yadda. CM's helped more people in his life than the average person walking down the street.

More said, but you get the idea. I'm sure IS will re-run this interview. I also wouldn't be surprised if he's making the media rounds.

Wish I weren't so busy! Painting and sanding and all sorts of home repairs are approaching my computer and I'll have to take it down! Thank goodness I have a back-up available.

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 11:25 AM

That's a good question. Obviously, the system doesn't work. I don't have the answers. Maybe it will take a few more deaths for someone to say "Hey, wait a sec, there is something terribly wrong here" and then do something about it. Someone was filling his prescriptions. Someone was lying for him.

Maybe, but we don't convict people of crimes in this country without evidence. None of those drugs killed Michael Jackson -- he died of acute propofol intoxication, and was given benzodiazapenes by one person and one person only: Conrad Murray.

As others have said, the DEA investigated all of this and did not bring charges against any of the people you want charged. If they had found significant evidence of illegal activity, they would have sent it on for prosecution. I have a friend who is an asst US attorney, and he has spent his professional life prosecuting doctors and pharmacists who run pill mills. He's convicted many of them in his day. So, the laws are being enforced.

CarolinaMoon

11-08-2011, 11:30 AM

Wants the contents of the propofol bottle to see if there is lidocane in it. Jean Casarez is doing counterpoint to Flannagan.

Whining about the gag order and how the defense team couldn't get their story out to the media, many of whom didn't tell the whole story, like Jean did!

One interesting note: Flannagan constantly begins to say "my client" and quickly changes it to Dr. Murray. Wonder what that means?

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 11:32 AM

Now Flanagan is not only spinning the facts, but out right mistating them. IMO Grrr.

I missed the first part of this interview, did he mention Chertoff at all?

Thanks CarolinaMoon for keeping us updated. :)

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 11:36 AM

O/T But I wish I had known he was going to be on. I had to run to the store to replace the tootsie rolls I ate out of my GS's halloween bag. (I am such a bad granny!)

peace9274

11-08-2011, 11:41 AM

[QUOTE=peace9274;7329420]OCEANBLUEEYES, I'm third to say I agree with you and that it's very well said!![/QUOTE.]

I hope this link works for oceanblueeyes' post # 792....
The other didn't seem to.

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10446/applause.gif

CarolinaMoon

11-08-2011, 11:59 AM

Now Flanagan is not only spinning the facts, but out right mistating them. IMO Grrr.

I missed the first part of this interview, did he mention Chertoff at all?

Thanks CarolinaMoon for keeping us updated. :)

I didn't catch everything he said, too much whining and complaining about what the judge wouldn't allow in and other stuff we've heard over and over again. There was a bunch of talk about an appeal. The bald attorney was just on as well. Same old, same old. They are spinning out of control right now since the gag order has been lifted.

I have no doubt that there will be a rerun of these sometime today and you may possibly get to hear it all. If not, I'd watch out for interviews on the usual suspect stations' morning shows. But fair warning, you already have heard all the whining they are doing. Poor Conrad Murray time!

No mention at all about Chernoff.

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 12:02 PM

I wonder if CM fired Flanagan and that is why he can't say "my client" ???

Isabelle

11-08-2011, 12:05 PM

Wants the contents of the propofol bottle to see if there is lidocane in it. Jean Casarez is doing counterpoint to Flannagan.

Whining about the gag order and how the defense team couldn't get their story out to the media, many of whom didn't tell the whole story, like Jean did!

One interesting note: Flannagan constantly begins to say "my client" and quickly changes it to Dr. Murray. Wonder what that means?

Flanagan must not have been paying attention to the anesthesiologists who said that the initial bolus dose is given with lidocaine, but the continuous drip via pump does not contain lidocaine since it is not necessary. Anest. will give additional lidocaine IV bolus through y-port if needed.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 12:05 PM

O/T But I wish I had known he was going to be on. I had to run to the store to replace the tootsie rolls I ate out of my GS's halloween bag. (I am such a bad granny!)

You weren't able to sleep, Credence, because (IMO), it meant
that you were to get up and write that post just for my benefit! :)

I had closed up after "This Is It" was over and went to bed.
But I just kept thinking about the editing of the film, as outofstatelawyer
had described it... and that maybe there was a lot of footage not
included in the film, because of how MJ looked or behaved.

I couldn't get it off my mind and kept imagining MJ being in poor health, physically & mentally.
So I had to get up to shake off all that was racing in my mind. ("Move a muscle, change a thought!").

I came back here to see if anyone else was here and saw your post! It was a great read!!
I'm so relieved I did and I'm so grateful that you told (me) all about the attys going through
boxes of film and that they couldn't find anything that showed MJ was suffering in any way.

So now after reading it, I feel much better about MJ during the rehearsals and I know I'll be able to fall asleep now!! :)

Anyway, thank you for that, Credence!! You'll probably be able to get some sleep now, too... knowing that you sure helped me!!! :)

What did the defense expect, Michael had been rehearsing for 6 months prior to his death! I had no idea he'd been working that long on this performance, but know from my experience with piano that I would practice 6 to 8 hours a day for weeks before performing (and that was for a very small intimate group).

oceanblueeyes

11-08-2011, 12:11 PM

[QUOTE=peace9274;7329420]OCEANBLUEEYES, I'm third to say I agree with you and that it's very well said!![/QUOTE.]

I hope this link works for oceanblueeyes' post # 792....
The other didn't seem to.

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10446/applause.gif

Aw shucks :blushing: thanks for the link, Peace.

I came in and got a lot off my chest in my post this morning and then started back on painting the walls. :)

Thank you everyone who hit the 'thanks' button. :)

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 12:12 PM

Peace,
I can't get the link to open.

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 12:14 PM

Wow, Just showed a friend of CM's who says the real killer is out there somewhere.
I guess someone snuck in and knew how to murder MJ with propofol. Now that is goofy. Or other words that would get me a time out. :)

peace9274

11-08-2011, 12:22 PM

Michael Jackson performed at President Clinton's first inauguration gala on 20 January 1993. He gave a short speech about the life and death of his friend Ryan White, emphasizing the importance of supporting research for an aids cure. The song is dedicated to Ryan.

http://wn.com/Michael_Jackson_at_Bill_Clinton_inauguration

Although MJ's style of singing prevented his vocal chords from sounding "manly" or masculine... it shows that he could & did talk "normal".... whatever that is!

Also, if you watch some of the youtube videos of MJ with his precious children, you'll see that he also speaks in a normal voice to them.

oceanblueeyes

11-08-2011, 12:28 PM

bbm

If he was absent because he was sick how would that show up on rehearsal video? He wasn't there.

AEG was very concerned about his absence. They had a lot of money at stake here.

As far as I am aware the only time MJ missed rehearsals were around June 19th when he was not feeling well but he was right back better than ever and gave two of the best performances to date two days straight right before he died.

Randy Phillips did not testify to that. He said they all were looking forward to the tour including Michael. He also said the delay in rehearsals was not because of MJ.

What people don't realize this was a mutual contract between MJ and AEG. Neither one had more power than the other one. The only way the tour could be canceled is if BOTH MJ and AEG agreed for it to happen. (Also testified to by Randy Phillips)

I actually believe the days he was ill it was side affects of propofol.

Of course Dr. Murray's answer wasn't to let AEG really know HE was the one administering drugs to MJ. His answer was to tell all concerned parties to keep their nose out of his business and he was the doctor:innocent: ........not them.

Oh my, now I am really glad I got up early and went out in freezing, snowy weather to get more candy! I won't even confess to the choc. Easter bunny incident. ;)

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 12:40 PM

Tom Messereau is predicting CM will get the max sentence from Judge P. I hope so.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 12:40 PM

Oh my, now I am really glad I got up early and went out in freezing, snowy weather to get more candy! I won't even confess to the choc. Easter bunny incident. ;)

Laughing out loud!!!
:floorlaugh:

peace9274

11-08-2011, 12:52 PM

I hate that InSessions now starts at 10 am!

The only thing on TruTV here is an infomercial for Lifestyle Lift...
with all the reasons for having the cosmetic procedure. How apropos!!

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 01:06 PM

Wants the contents of the propofol bottle to see if there is lidocane in it. Jean Casarez is doing counterpoint to Flannagan.

Whining about the gag order and how the defense team couldn't get their story out to the media, many of whom didn't tell the whole story, like Jean did!

One interesting note: Flannagan constantly begins to say "my client" and quickly changes it to Dr. Murray. Wonder what that means?

Most criminal defense lawyers will refer the appeals to an appellate specialist. Remember in the OJ case, where Alan Dershowitz was on hand as the "God Forbid" lawyer? As I posted a few days ago, in cases of re-trial (whether by mistrial or reversal on appeal), the first set of defense lawyers usually are not around the second time around. Mostly this is due to $$ considerations.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 01:25 PM

I hate that InSessions now starts at 10 am!

The only thing on TruTV here is an infomercial for Lifestyle Lift...
with all the reasons for having the cosmetic procedure. How apropos!!

I just re-watched the verdict and the Judge's speech why CFCM will go to jail before sentencing and why he chose without bail.

The woman host ("Christie") on InSessions just said that Conrad Murray is on suicide watch. Was that said earlier?

peace9274

11-08-2011, 01:42 PM

Charles Peckman is now on. He is CFCM's civil atty.

TrackerSam

11-08-2011, 01:44 PM

Wow, Just showed a friend of CM's who says the real killer is out there somewhere.
I guess someone snuck in and knew how to murder MJ with propofol. Now that is goofy. Or other words that would get me a time out. :)

That's what OJ said. I believe that most celebrities make dr.appts. just like the rest of us. Only a very few have their own doctors and I believe it's for the purpose of have drugs prescribed legally. MJ's constant surgeries are evidence that he was messed up mentally and sooner or later he would have OD'd.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 01:48 PM

InSessions Interview with C Peckman, CFCM's civil atty:

Peckman says it should have been a civil suit all along and gone to civil court (first).

Peckman said that he will call Dr Klein for the civil suit. He should have been called in the criminal suit for all he did to MJ.. the demerol, etc.

Christie: He claims those records are not his.

CP: Of course they're his. Whose else would they be? MJ was shown to go into Klein's office...

The Medical boards will take a serious look at this & will take CM's license, but we're fighting / hoping that he will be able to practice again.

Christie: Is there any way CFCM will not spend time in jail?

Peckman: Well, he's in jail now... but what a horrible cost to the CA tax payers. He should not be in jail. He is not a danger...

(Then there were technical difficulties & the interview ended abruptly.)

I missed some of the interview cuz I can't type fast & keep up. :)

peace9274

11-08-2011, 02:08 PM

Some Brilliant statements by Flanagan during his interview with Christie.

Christie: Was CM expecting this verdict?

Flanagan: Well, uhhh... it could've gone either way.

(Goes on to praise CFCM and what a great man he was in Texas, CA, etc.)

Flanagan: CM was trying to help MJ. It was hard to hear the people cheer outside when the verdict was read.
I don't they should have cheered. It was very inappropriate for them to cheer when this man was suffering. He lost his best friend.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 02:13 PM

More Flanagan Brilliance:

CM saved more lives than.... uhmm... errrr... the average person on the street.

He can't even make a diagnosis now.

He is not a threat ... no more a threat than... ummm... a client charged with a misdemeanor.

This should have been a civil suit only. It should have been just a malpractice suit.

Appellet argument will be about Walgren being very good at convincing the Judge to not allow
a financial statement (MJ's?), for the gag order, for some of the toxicology reports.... (and other stuff)

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 02:13 PM

Some Brilliant statements by Flanagan during his interview with Christie.

Christie: Was CM expecting this verdict?

Flanagan: Well, uhhh... it could've gone either way.

(Goes on to praise CFCM and what a great man he was in Texas, CA, etc.)

Flanagan: CM was trying to help MJ. It was hard to hear the people cheer outside when the verdict was read.
I don't they should have cheered. It was very inappropriate for them to cheer when this man was suffering. He lost his best friend.

OFGS, poor cm killed his best friend and we should feel sorry for his suffering?
:banghead::furious:

peace9274

11-08-2011, 02:32 PM

Jean Casaras: "I was upset about the gag order too, becasuse I felt you did a very good job
and I wanted to talk to you each day and to ask you questions and compliment you... blah blah blah."

Christie: So, what was your biggest hurdle?

Flanagan: "First I want to compliment Jean (Casaras).
She understood the case & did a very good job covering the trial.
She was there and knew what she was talking about, unlike other reporters... blah blah blah.

"We have sentencing on 29th. We may or may not go for another trial."

Goes on to argue about propofol... A.G.A.I.N

Flanagan: "Was it an infusion or was it a bolus? blah blah blah"

Me: I'm sure InSessions will be showing clips of the interviews through-out the day.

And I'm sure you get the idea of what Flanagan said. Same old stuff that a lot of loser teams say!

We've been there - Done that.
Saw the movie - Have the T-shirt.
Have the posters all over my bedroom, in fact.

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 02:36 PM

Dang it, I was watching another channel. If anyone saw the whole interview with Dr. White I would love to hear your impressions. TIA

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 02:43 PM

Holy Moly!

1. Flanagan needs to spend a few bucks and get his teeth fixed;

2. All these defense folks (Flanagan, White, and now the "expert" on addiction) should not be blabbing. You can bet your bottom dollar that old Dave Walgren is recording these interviews. White's interview sure did reveal a lot of interesting stuff: Murray was using saline bags as trash receptacles! OMG. If the unimaginable happens and there is a re-trial, these defense "experts" have caused some problems from themselves. Maybe they have no intention of being involved in the future. Dunno.

Velouria

11-08-2011, 02:44 PM

Horrifying statistic I heard on the CBS News last week:

89 Percent of the Oxycontin scripts written in the U.S. are written in Florida! 89 Percent!!!

and 80 percent of those were written to Rush Limbaugh!!!

J/K :p

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 02:48 PM

Well, Dr. Waldman isn't coming off as arrogant as he was at trial, but then again Walgren is doing the interview.

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 02:54 PM

Vinnie Politan: Dr. are you comfortable with Dr. Murray ever praticing medicine again in this country?

Dr. Robert Waldman: No, I am not.....he should not be allowed to practice, his medical license should be revoked!

Wow, with experts like him, who needs Dr. Steinberg???!!!!

outofstatelawyer

11-08-2011, 02:55 PM

and 80 percent of those were written to Rush Limbaugh!!!

J/K :p

:floorlaugh:

(or Rush's maid)

ges79

11-08-2011, 03:09 PM

Just in case anyone else is curious to know how tall CM is , here ya go:http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/08/conrad-murray-booking-sheet/#.Trl9enJxVqg

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 03:15 PM

Just in case anyone else is curious to know how tall CM is , here ya go:http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/08/conrad-murray-booking-sheet/#.Trl9enJxVqg

But remember he told police he couldn't get MJ on the floor by himself to perform CPR correctly. :furious:

MJ weighed around 135! GRRRR

Credence

11-08-2011, 03:27 PM

bbm

If he was absent because he was sick how would that show up on rehearsal video? He wasn't there.

AEG was very concerned about his absence. They had a lot of money at stake here.

Good afternoon all :)

There is no evidence he was "sick" though. Seems he may have slept through rehearsals from all the benzos and propofol CM was giving him. Ortega described one afternoon where he did not feel well and sent him home (6/19) and Murray basically told him to butt out so seems to me Murray knew exactly what was going on. Ortega just mentioned a couple of days he missed the week before; prior to his death and those were on days he did NOT see Dr. Klein. It was not until that week that AEG became concerned as evidenced by the phone call Frank DiLeo made to CM on 6/20.

"Most every state in the country will recognize that (suspension)," said FOX5 legal analyst Bob Massi.

Murray practiced cardiology at several offices nationwide, including Las Vegas. His medical license in Nevada expired on June 30, 2011 and was not renewed.

Ed Cousineau, deputy executive director of the Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners, told FOX5 that Murray can re-apply for his medical license; however, a felony conviction related to the practice of medicine is grounds for denial by the board.

Prior to the expiration of his Nevada license, Murray was ordered on restricted practice by the Board.

I sure hope the estate lawyers dig into this documentary and if anything relating to MJ's medical issues are mentioned perhaps it can be prevented from being aired or edited:

Q: Who may access a deceased person’s medical records?

A: The patient’s designated personal representative or the legal executor of his or her estate has a right under law to access the records. These are the only people who by law have a right to view or copy the records.

If the patient died without naming a personal representative or executor, state law determines who by default possesses the right. States often establish a hierarchy of persons based on their relationship to the deceased person. Typically this begins with an adult member of the immediate family, such as a spouse, child, or sibling.

But remember he told police he couldn't get MJ on the floor by himself to perform CPR correctly. :furious:

MJ weighed around 135! GRRRR

IMO he never had to perform CPR because MJ was already dead. Everything he did or said was self-serving. I even believe the call made to his girlfriend out of the blue (per her testimony) was staged to make it appear he had only just discovered that MJ had stopped breathing. I believe CM was talking to himself and faked a cough too knowing it would be unidentifiable by her and that is why he left the line open. All was done for show and an alibi IMO

Isabelle

11-08-2011, 04:06 PM

But remember he told police he couldn't get MJ on the floor by himself to perform CPR correctly. :furious:

MJ weighed around 135! GRRRR

Even a skinny 5 ft. tall nurse can get a patient on the floor properly. When it's life or death, you do what you got to do!

Isabelle

11-08-2011, 04:09 PM

I sure hope the estate lawyers dig into this documentary and if anything relating to MJ's medical issues are mentioned perhaps it can be prevented from being aired or edited:

Q: Who may access a deceased person’s medical records?

A: The patient’s designated personal representative or the legal executor of his or her estate has a right under law to access the records. These are the only people who by law have a right to view or copy the records.

If the patient died without naming a personal representative or executor, state law determines who by default possesses the right. States often establish a hierarchy of persons based on their relationship to the deceased person. Typically this begins with an adult member of the immediate family, such as a spouse, child, or sibling.

I surely hope this documentary Conrad plans to benefit from does not use unauthorized photos/audio of Michael Jackson. That would definitely be a violation of confidentiality and punishable by federal laws.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 04:09 PM

Holy Moly!

1. Flanagan needs to spend a few bucks and get his teeth fixed;

Snipped & BBM

Wow. You're not kidding!!!

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 04:14 PM

Even a skinny 5 ft. tall nurse can get a patient on the floor properly. When it's life or death, you do what you got to do!

Yes ma'am, and not hurt the patient in the process.

peace9274

11-08-2011, 04:24 PM

What channel/show is/was the Dr White interview on?

TIA

FYI & BTW & OT: A few minutes ago, I was told an article and photos of my son
Christopher's wedding is featured in the magazine "Style Me Pretty ~ New York". :)

I posted a link to the wedding video several pages back.
Oh, and I was NOT mentioned in the article! :(

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 04:47 PM

What channel/show is/was the Dr White interview on?

TIA

FYI & BTW & OT: A few minutes ago, I was told an article and photos of my son
Christopher's wedding is featured in the magazine "Style Me Pretty ~ New York". :)

I posted a link to the wedding video several pages back.
Oh, and I was NOT mentioned in the article! :(

The interview was with Vinnie on In Sessions, IIRC.

Peace you are a star here. :rocker:

peace9274

11-08-2011, 05:15 PM

The interview was with Vinnie on In Sessions, IIRC.

Peace you are a star here. :rocker:

Thank you, Dah-link :dramaqueen:

This entire group (of rockstars) has been extra special to me. :)
Is it too obvious I'm not ready for us to part & go on with other things?

peace9274

11-08-2011, 05:23 PM

I have a feeling that one of the mods may make us start a new thread pretty soon.

We should think of a new name since we're no longer on a "Verdict Watch".

Since there haven't been too many posters for the CFCM Trial,
it could be something general or simple like ... "Conrad Murray - After The Trial" ....
or anything else you think of. :)

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 05:28 PM

I have a feeling that one of the mods may make us start a new thread pretty soon.

We should think of a new name since we're no longer on a "Verdict Watch".

Since there haven't been too many posters for the CFCM Trial,
it could be something general or simple like ... "Conrad Murray - After The Trial" ....
or anything else you think of. :)

That if a fine title.

I am sure we will have more interviews with the players at least for a few more days.

I am just so happy with this verdict.

octobermoon

11-08-2011, 05:30 PM

BTW, did we ever have a mod on this case? Usually I see their name/s bolded below.

Thundar

11-08-2011, 05:34 PM

I had to go and stay with 4 small people last night because their mommy had surgery so I missed lots of discussion.

I am so glad the verdict was guilty and that Murray got hauled off to jail to await sentencing. It was what I was hoping for but I figured it was too much to wish for.

I also would like to thank everyone for riding the big red justice bus with me during this trial. It was very enjoyable, unlike the last trial I followed.

YAHOO. Guilty...guilty...yeah!!!!!

peace9274

11-08-2011, 06:24 PM

I only caught a few questions of Vinnie P's Interview with Dr White:

Vinnie: You keep calling him Shafer...

Dr White: Dr Shafer, excuse me.

Vinnie: You been through some hard times together, some good times together, very close at school, worked together, blah blah blah...
are you still friends?

Dr White: I dont know that we're not friends. You'd have to ask Dr Shafer. I guess. We're both professionals and we're on opposite sides...

I've always thought CM didnt use proper care when he decided to treat MJ at home and give him propofol, but I dont think
that was what killed MJ.Yes, Dr Shafer and I ... We have a difference of opinion, a different point of view about things.

The DA made some very <nasty> remarks about <me? defense witnesses?> But I certainly think there is enough evidence
for more investigation to be done for the cause of death.

(Me: Not a straight answer at all. Still don't know if they're friends)

Vinnie: Are you saying there wasnt enough investigation? That there were too many unknowns?

Dr White: Yes. Too many unknowns.

Vinnie: What did CM tell you he did that night? What did he tell you about what happened to MJ?

Dr White: I got on a plane & flew out to <CA, Vegas?> . I grilled CM extensively. I talked to him at length about blah blah blah.

I was also doing a lot of investigating about CM while I spent a lot of time with him... He said said yes he used propo for sleep,
but he stopped using it a few days before MJ died.

(Me: Not a straight answer at all. I still do not know what CM told Dr White what happened to MJ; what CM did in the room.)

Vinnie: What was up with the vial of propofol and the split bag?

Dr White: The vial and the bag with the slit... it was used to dilute the propofol with the bag of saline to get a diluted concentration.

(Me: GMAFB)

Dr White: The bag was slit because he gathered the vials and put them into the bag... to tidy up the place.

Me: <<<Rolls eyes>>>

Dr White: Why would he use the slit bag as a hanger when there's a small plastic hanger device right on the vial?
He poured the propofol into the bag to dilute it.

Vinnie: I was very impressed... with every doctor who testified... impressed with all the work that was done.

Dr White: Thank you

(Me: <<<GAG>>> Not a straight believable answer at all. I still do not know what CM's excuse was to Dr White for the slit bag.)

Vinnie: Would you be comfortable with Dr Murray practicing again?

Dr White: This was a very unusual situation. It was CM with a very good friend... that was a breach.
CM was blinded by their deep close friendship.

(Me: Exactly! It's the reason it's not good practice to treat close friends & family members)

Dr White: Dr Murray was never paid for what he did for MJ. CM bought all the equipment with his own money,
he bought the oxygen tanks, IV pole, the medicine all of it himself. He was very blinded because of the deep love for MJ.

It is such a tragedy. A tragedy for MJ and for MJ's family. But it is also a tragedy for Dr Murray.

I was a big fan of MJ's also. I really liked his... uhmmmm... ahhhh.... errr the thriller video.

(Me: Not a straight answer. I still don't know if he thinks CM should ever practice again.
I guess Vinnie didn't either, cuz he asked the question again.)

Vinnie: Yes I realize all that, but you didn''t answer, should CM ever practice.....

Dr White: Oh yes... Practice again. Umm err ahhh.... blah blah - way off topic ....blah blah ...
we as doctors all certainly strive for the best possible care, we all know that all doctors go against the
standard practice of care when treating family members in a hospice situation. Blah blah blah

(Me: I still dont know if he thinks yes or no - if CM should ever practice again.)

"Most every state in the country will recognize that (suspension)," said FOX5 legal analyst Bob Massi.

Murray practiced cardiology at several offices nationwide, including Las Vegas. His medical license in Nevada expired on June 30, 2011 and was not renewed.

Ed Cousineau, deputy executive director of the Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners, told FOX5 that Murray can re-apply for his medical license; however, a felony conviction related to the practice of medicine is grounds for denial by the board.

Prior to the expiration of his Nevada license, Murray was ordered on restricted practice by the Board.

Before Conrad Murray was convicted, his medical license in the State of California was suspended as a condition of bail.

Now that he has been convicted, The Medical Board of California announced they will open an investigation to determine whether or not to fully revoke Murray's right to practice medicine in the state, spokeswoman Jennifer Simoes said.

The main criteria in deciding whether to revoke, suspend or take other action against any doctor is assessing how substantial a crime is related to the practice of medicine.

There is no timeline as to when the board might act regarding Murray, said Simoes.

And, I do also! Great post--said exactly what I was thinking. The only thing I would add is that back in 2009 after Michael's death, both the DEA and the AG of CA thoroughly investigated all the doctors involved with MJ, and found nothing---no charges were brought against anyone.

You weren't able to sleep, Credence, because (IMO), it meant
that you were to get up and write that post just for my benefit!

I had closed up after "This Is It" was over and went to bed.
But I just kept thinking about the editing of the film, as outofstatelawyer
had described it... and that maybe there was a lot of footage not
included in the film, because of how MJ looked or behaved.

I couldn't get it off my mind and kept imagining MJ being in poor health, physically & mentally.
So I had to get up to shake off all that was racing in my mind. ("Move a muscle, change a thought!").

I came back here to see if anyone else was here and saw your post! It was a great read!!
I'm so relieved I did and I'm so grateful that you told (me) all about the attys going through
boxes of film and that they couldn't find anything that showed MJ was suffering in any way.

So now after reading it, I feel much better about MJ during the rehearsals and I know I'll be able to fall asleep now!!

Anyway, thank you for that, Credence!! You'll probably be able to get some sleep now, too... knowing and that you sure helped me!!!

Ohhhh, Woe is Me and I and Myself -

Just read your post, peace, and Credence's above that....

What WILL I do without both of you giving me your little daily boosts to my morale and to my hope for all of us and the world??? And then comes oceanblueeyes with her dose of good sense and fair play, and trying to set our globe of folks straight (in the right way, that is -- nothing having to do whom one sleeps); and bash with her off-the-wall and absolutely good sense and yes, tenderness; and outofstatelawyer with her valuable legal terms and explanations and peeks into the lawbooks; and Talina with her equally good sense of balance and good humor; and bluesky and octobermoom and Isabelle and TxLady and SATA and breathe and Melanie and the Inspector and legalmania and DavisEyes and SAlady and RR0004 and momtective and and and and and....

I am sad about it.

But I am happier than I am sad to have been on this forum with all of you!

I just think that maybe, just a little, we helped the "good guys" in California with this emotional and so awfully sad case. Prayer works. Good thoughts work. Positve thinking works. And honesty above all helps us rise above the lies and the "forgot abouts" and the "it doesn't matters."

I must say, I think we :grouphug: did a good job. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif:eek::laugh::peace::lol::ohwow::furious: :loveyou::hot::coffeews::dunno::websleuther::pullh air::yesss::yuck::shocked2:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gifhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif:maddening::floorlaugh:

peace9274

11-08-2011, 07:53 PM

Ohhhh, Woe is Me and I and Myself -

Just read your post, peace, and Credence's above that....

What WILL I do without both of you giving me your little daily boosts to my morale and to my hope for all of us and the world??? And then comes oceanblueeyes with her dose of good sense and fair play, and trying to set our globe of folks straight (in the right way, that is -- nothing having to do whom one sleeps); and bash with her off-the-wall and absolutely good sense and yes, tenderness; and outofstatelawyer with her valuable legal terms and explanations and peeks into the lawbooks; and Talina with her equally good sense of balance and good humor; and bluesky and octobermoom and Isabelle and TxLady and SATA and breathe and Melanie and the Inspector and legalmania and DavisEyes and SAlady and RR0004 and momtective and and and and and....

I am sad about it.

But I am happier than I am sad to have been on this forum with all of you!

I just think that maybe, just a little, we helped the "good guys" in California with this emotional and so awfully sad case. Prayer works. Good thoughts work. Positve thinking works. And honesty above all helps us rise above the lies and the "forgot abouts" and the "it doesn't matters."

I must say, I think we :grouphug: did a good job. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif:eek::laugh::peace::lol::ohwow::furious: :loveyou::hot::coffeews::dunno::websleuther::pullh air::yesss::yuck::shocked2:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gifhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif:maddening::floorlaugh:

You are so cool!

borndem

11-08-2011, 08:06 PM

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM...oh and his bodyguards, surely someone saw the meds, and the drip and his condition............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

I understand what you're saying, ~n/t~ and want to say that in this vein, I noticed today on our local 6:00pm (prime time here for local and then national evening news) television news station -- they did an article on oxycodone and "Dr. Shoppers." How 'bout that? Hmmmmm. Coinky-dink?? -- nahhhhh, no way, I say.

At least maybe this case -- no matter who "the good or bad guys" are -- has made some folks a bit more conscious about prescriptions and dependency and habitual drug use. Legal drug use. A doctor and a pharmacist were interviewed about physicians participating in a Dr. Shopper reporting drive.

Sadly, many have failed him. Those who should have been there for him were not. It's one thing to come out after his death and support him but where were all his supporters when he was going through some of the toughest years of his life?

Remember the molestation trial? Remember when he showed up in pajamas? He was ridiculed, laughed at. Didn't some radio stations ban his music during this time?

I see some of these same reporters who took pleasure in reporting how bizarre he was and how he treated his children. Remember his children in masks or covered in white sheets? The media was all over him calling him out . Remember when he held Blanket out the window? People wanted him arrested for child endangerment and the kids taken away.

Ahhh the hypocrisy of it all.

Ironically, I'm probably one of the only ones who seeks justice for Michael. All those who did him harm emotionally and physically should be ashamed of themselves.

Posters poo pooed my mention of pharmacists. Well guess what? If he had aliases and was able to get the meds, hell yes they should be held responsible regardless of whether he had those meds in his body when he died. They enabled him with his addiction. His other doctors should also face the same fate as CM...oh and his bodyguards, surely someone saw the meds, and the drip and his condition............I could go on and on and on.

But alas, they got the fall guy. Justice was served. We now have ONE killer.

I don't call that justice.

RIP Michael!

I understand what you're saying, ~n/t~ and want to say that in this vein, I noticed today on our local 6:00pm (prime time here for local and then national evening news) television news station -- they did an article on oxycodone and "Dr. Shoppers." How 'bout that? Hmmmmm. Coinky-dink?? -- nahhhhh, no way, I say.

At least maybe this case -- no matter who "the good or bad guys" are -- has made some folks a bit more conscious about prescriptions and dependency and habitual drug use. Legal drug use. A doctor and a pharmacist were interviewed about physicians participating in a Dr. Shopper reporting drive.

It's a start!!

borndem

11-08-2011, 08:39 PM

Are you saying Lopez didn't know the address he was shipping to wasn't a hospital or a clinic ?

IMO, I think Lopez took the Doc at his word -- but unless it's checked further -- we'll never know. And even if it IS checked further, we may never know the truth... or at least we'll never get it from Murray. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif

borndem

11-08-2011, 08:45 PM

It seems to me like this would be illegal for the doctors to prescribe to aliases. However, the DEA did an investigation into all of this and found that nothing done rose to the level of them filing charges against any of the doctors. So perhaps there are allowances in certain circumstances for a doctor to prescribe and keep medical records on an alias as long as they cross reference to who the actual person is (remember there were references in some of the medical records presented at trial for those aliases that linked them back to MJ)

IMO

This may not be germane, but high-profile individuals are allowed aliases for their names when admitted to hospitals. This was done in a murder case which is to be tried here in Raleigh early next year. The victim's armband had an alias, and so did the name tag on the door to her room and her chart. It is done. Her autopsy did not.

ETA: She was a fairly well-known state official. Brutally raped and battered to death.

The warden threw a party in the county jail.
The prison band was there and they began to wail.
The band was jumpin' and the joint began to swing.
You should've heard those knocked out jailbirds sing.
Let's rock
Everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

Conrad Murray played the tenor saxophone,
Little Joe was blowin' on the slide trombone.
The drummer boy from Illinois went crash, boom, bang,
the whole rhythm section was the Purple Gang.
Let's rock
Everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

Number forty-seven said to number three:
"You're the cutest jailbird I ever did see.
I sure would be delighted with your company,
come on and do the Jailhouse Rock with me."
Let's rock
Everybody, let's rock.
Everybody in the whole cell block
was dancin' to the Jailhouse Rock.

Most criminal defense lawyers will refer the appeals to an appellate specialist. Remember in the OJ case, where Alan Dershowitz was on hand as the "God Forbid" lawyer? As I posted a few days ago, in cases of re-trial (whether by mistrial or reversal on appeal), the first set of defense lawyers usually are not around the second time around. Mostly this is due to $$ considerations.

Same here in NC. oosl --

Within the Office of the State Defender, we have the Office of the Capital Defender, Office of Indigent Defense Services, Office of the Appellate Defender and others.

Yes, appeals attorneys are a different bunch.

This will be interesting to follow, IMO. IF it happens.

If I were CM, I'd wanna do my little time & get the heyell outta the USA.

Inspector Gidget

11-09-2011, 04:20 AM

Before Conrad Murray was convicted, his medical license in the State of California was suspended as a condition of bail.

Now that he has been convicted, The Medical Board of California announced they will open an investigation to determine whether or not to fully revoke Murray's right to practice medicine in the state, spokeswoman Jennifer Simoes said.

The main criteria in deciding whether to revoke, suspend or take other action against any doctor is assessing how substantial a crime is related to the practice of medicine.

There is no timeline as to when the board might act regarding Murray, said Simoes.

Why are they so determined to reward the criminals? In my mind I believe Murray was jealous of MJ.He wanted all the fame and glory that came with being a celebrity.Well I got news buddy,you have no talent and will never see fame as
long as you live.Do all the interviews and books you want.Nobody cares about you except maybe your baby mama's.

RayStar

11-09-2011, 06:33 AM

Can you please elaborate? Perhaps I just need more coffee this morning but I have no idea what you mean. :waitasec:

Try drinking something stronger then you may be able to understand my post as it is as clear as day.

RayStar

11-09-2011, 06:38 AM

Bottom Line MJ wanted to go to see and so he did.

Correction -- sleep not see-- Only MJ went to sleep forever.

joypath

11-09-2011, 07:38 AM

What?? I thought it was already revoked.

:twocents: If I may, most health care providers (licensed) VOLUNTARILY "give up" the license to practice while under a trial involving a related issue, THEN when determined to be "not guilty", the license is IMMEDIATELY & QUICKLY reinstated by the State Board without malice (an "aftertaste", so to speak!). :truce: In other cases, the Court may petition the Board for a TEMPORARY license dismissal OR license practice limitation (ie. revocation of controlled substance 'script authorization). Now that CM's legal status has changed dramatically, his case before the Board (actually, State BOARDS!) will be up for review to determine if it should also be modified. Each of his licensing State may choose to act in a unique manner but hopefully all will communicate and the decision will be the same be revocation for a time period, re-education & retraining, suspension or (gulp) no action at all.

Given some of the testimony I caught, I'd not hold my breath on the last option! :rocker::furious::rocker: