Pension Envy: Who Has More—Obama or Romney?

Yes, Isn't that a Good Question?
Who do you think has a better retirement Plan, Obama or Romney.
Now before you start making inaccurate statements Like,,, Romney has the Cayman Island and Investments in China,,,, True, True,,, But so does Obama
through his Illinois pension fund.
Yes, That's correct, remember Obama has a retirement from the eight years he served in the Illinois Legislature as a state senator.

Now Obama will also be entitled to his Presidential Retirement Payed by the Tax Payers for life if he's Not Reelected the retirement starts
immediately.

OH,,, I forgot,,,,, Romney has No Retirement Plan as a matter of fact,,,,,,,Romney was Governor and Never accepted a Salary has Governor, So. Romney
is not entitled to any Pensions. WOW! Did not charge the people for being Governor.

So,,, who has a Larger Retirement Pension? Obama That's Who! Does he Deserve it? No!!!
OH,,,,, Where did I get my information,,,, Here is the story to the above headlines.

Retirement packages sparked one of a series of confrontations during the Tuesday debate between President Obama and Republican challenger Mitt
Romney.

Romney conceded that a blind trust that manages his money does have investments in China, but countered that he wasn't alone.

My husband has a TSP, that has part of his investments in China and other Countries.

"Mr. President, have you looked at your pension? Have you looked at your pension? Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?" Romney
challenged. In one of the debate's lighter moments, Obama countered, "I don't look at my pension. It's not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long.
I don't check it that often."

"Let me give you some advice: Look at your pension. You also have investments in Chinese companies, you also have investments outside the United
States," he said

As president, he will receive $191,300 annually for life — win or lose in next month's election — and receives a travel allotment as well as
mailing privileges. Should Obama lose, his presidential pension kicks in immediately after leaving office. Given that the president enjoys a normal
life span, the pension allotment would be worth upwards of $6 million.

Well,,,, was Obama worth $191,300 annually for the Rest Of His Life?

In addition, Obama may be due a nice pension for the eight years he served in the Illinois Legislature as a state senator. Illinois is infamous
for its lavish pension plan for former lawmakers. A Freedom of Information Act request for Obama's pension amount submitted Wednesday to the General
Assembly Retirement System of Illinois was not immediately answered, nor was a call to the Obama campaign.

No One Returned that Information,,,, I wonder why,,,,,I'm sure the monies Obama will be Raking in Would Be Very Embarrassing For The Unemployed To
Have Knowledge Of.

OK, Romney,,, What is he going to make from retirement pension plan.

His Individual Retirement Account could be worth in the neighborhood of $87 million, as documented in an extensive report from the Washington
Post.

Read Carefully,,,, His Individual Retirement Account,,,, Not a Public Pension! His Money.

But as for a strictly public pension? Zip, zero.

Romney only served one term as governor of the Bay State and did not take a salary, so he is eligible for nothing. So while Romney appears headed
for a happier retirement financially, he'll be footing his own bill — unless, of course, he wins next month. In that case, his nest egg will be even
that much bigger than Obama's.

Originally posted by buster2010
Comparison is a fail. No one knows how much Romney is worth even he won't admit how much he is worth. His wealth is hidden in blind trust funds
overseas.

It might have help you to read one or both the articles attached as links before you made the above reply.

Miller offered this analysis: "There is no evidence that the fund helped the Illinois pension fund avoid any taxes – in this respect, the
Illinois pension fund would have been treated identically had the fund been organized as a domestic (U.S.) partnership. However, the fact that it was
organized as a Cayman partnership might have allowed some taxable investors to defer some tax on foreign (non-U.S.) portfolio companies purchased by
the Fund." Atwood emphasized that neither Obama nor any other participant in the retirement system has anything to do with selecting investments for
the fund. Miller concurred with that, and added that Romney legitimately can claim that he has similar distance from foreign investments made through
his individual retirement accounts. It’s "entirely accurate" for Romney to say that Obama’s pension plan has investments in foreign companies and
through a Caymans trust, Miller said. Technically, it’s a Cayman-based partnership, but that’s a trivial difference, he added.

Read the words: "entirely accurate" for Romney to say that Obama’s pension plan has investments in foreign companies and through a Caymans trust,
Miller said.

As we noted in reviewing previous claims about Romney’s investments in China, the investments involved are indirect and -- as far as anybody has
said -- made without the knowledge of the account holder.

Just an observation here...but I don't understand why the focus comes on what a U.S. President gets? I get that Romney's investments were made an
issue of..and that was idiotic itself. Any fund NOT investing in China has absolutely no business being involved with investing anything. It's a MAJOR
market that brings returns.. Pretty cut and dry...and I don't know of a major fund which isn't partially invested with the Asian markets.

With the President though.. Well... Heck, look at the job they do as a general statement? $199,700 per year (2011 indexed salary..as it's adjusted
every year) isn't all that much given what is asked of them and what will ALWAYS be asked of them, to the day they die. As I learned in courses on
this, it's an iteresting side area....but they do get paid offices, paid staff, mailing, and the pension of course.

The Offices are, in part, to keep track of the guys. After all, we absolutely CANNOT EVER lose a U.S. President. Not for any reason. Ever. Period.
Full Stop. Talk about the very definition of the worst nightmare our nation could really ever see in that type of event......so, they get carried to
some degree for life and they EARNED the pension, IMO.

As much as it's fun to tear on the guy in Office, it's still a 24/7 job and not a single one of them (Obama included) leave that office ONLY looking
4-8 years older. They ALL leave looking about 20 years older than they entered it. Whoever they may be.

........Now if you want to see something to piss you off, go look up the funds and resources made available to the First Family as a whole and the
First Lady specifically. I can see the President. I DO NOT see the need to treat his wife as an Official Ambassador in terms of GS rank status when
travelling outside Washington and particularly overseas. There are also the annual "slush" or general funds made available, automatically and with no
accountability for how it's spent. THAT part is annoying......... He makes $400,000 a year but will never have to spend a dime while in office,
because 6 figure amounts are dropped in his lap ON TOP OF THAT for each of the 4-8 years spent serving in office.

edit on 18-10-2012 by
Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction.

*For the partisan hacks around here.... The Name inserted in front of the President title is entirely irrelevant for this. 100% beyond any meaning
here. It's the President as an Office and as a position I'm talking about....and the First Lady in the same way. It's treated as an official position
with perks and benefits..and so, I'll be critical of it that way. The last and next ones are just as worthy of the critical attention.

Romney soon switched Bain Capital's focus from startups to the relatively new business of leveraged buyouts: buying existing companies with money
mostly borrowed from banking institutions using the newly bought companies' assets as collateral, then taking steps to improve the companies' value,
and finally selling those companies once their value peaked, usually within a few years.[56][65] Bain Capital lost money in many of its early
leveraged buyouts, but then found deals that made large returns.[56] The firm invested in or acquired Accuride, Brookstone, Domino's Pizza, Sealy
Corporation, Sports Authority, and Artisan Entertainment, as well as some lesser-known companies in the industrial and medical sectors.[56][65][79]
Much of the firm's profit was earned from a relatively small number of deals; Bain Capital's overall success-to-failure ratio was about even.[nb
10]

I can see why its hard to figure his wealth, as consults can be paid crazy sums, especially if he bought into some of the companies/projects he helped
develop.

Comparison is silly actually... Romney chose not to take a salary.. that's his choice, why does it even matter? .. and as has been pointed out.. we
don't even know what his net worth is.. but he's making millions a year by doing nothing because of his investments and other tactics.. so it's safe
to say he will be sitting pretty still raking in profit without any need to work.

Plus as you pointed out.. if Obama loses, his kicks in right away.. if he loses, who wins?... Romney.. Romney will then ALSO be entitled to
presidential retirement upon leaving office.. on top of his millions per year in profits from investment.

but again I ask.. what is your point? ... sounds like just some political ranting points with no actual purposeful meaning if you ask me.

Are you suggesting that this is a point to consider before voting? because it has jack all to do with policy

Originally posted by buster2010
Comparison is a fail. No one knows how much Romney is worth even he won't admit how much he is worth. His wealth is hidden in blind trust funds
overseas.

No matter how big it is the point the OP is making that regardless of its size in relative terms the cost of his retirement to the public is less than
that of Barry O.

Romney has earned all of his money (other than any trusts or inheritance of course) Obama simply sponged off of taxpayers in as a State Senator and
now as POTUS.

The bottom line is that Mitt has never taken personal compensation for a public office - Obama has not only taken personal compensation packages, but
the full retirement package as well as a crap load of shady kick backs and special "loans" from contributors and fans.

He's even getting someone to gift him a 29 million dollar house in Hawaii for retirement - being POTUS is nice if you can send keep your well healed
contributors’ pockets lined with taxpayer money!
.
Obama also has increased his personal net worth since 2004 up from under 1 milion dollars to to well over (based on some estimates as much as 11
million) 7 million. That's some smooth investing don't you think? Why can’t he manage America’s money that well?

Originally posted by buster2010
Comparison is a fail. No one knows how much Romney is worth even he won't admit how much he is worth. His wealth is hidden in blind trust funds
overseas.

No matter how big it is the point the OP is making that regardless of its size in relative terms the cost of his retirement to the public is less than
that of Barry O.

Romney has earned all of his money (other than any trusts or inheritance of course) Obama simply sponged off of taxpayers in as a State Senator and
now as POTUS.

The bottom line is that Mitt has never taken personal compensation for a public office - Obama has not only taken personal compensation packages, but
the full retirement package as well as a crap load of shady kick backs and special "loans" from contributors and fans.

He's even getting someone to gift him a 29 million dollar house in Hawaii for retirement - being POTUS is nice if you can send keep your well healed
contributors’ pockets lined with taxpayer money!
.
Obama also has increased his personal net worth since 2004 up from under 1 milion dollars to to well over (based on some estimates as much as 11
million) 7 million. That's some smooth investing don't you think? Why can’t he manage America’s money that well?

I still find it to be completely pointless... the amount of money that obama will get from the public is extremely tiny when put into perspective of
all the other wasteful government spending.. cutting a single program could fund that .. The point of the topic was comparing one to the other and it
was done with a clear conservative slant.. It's a comparison that has very little value .. Especially when you consider that most in government take
their salary.. most will get a pension.. it's hardly a negative mark on their record.. In fact, public servant or not .. you're entitled to
compensation.. I may love what I do but I'm not going to skip my pay to do it =)

You also have to consider that Obama and Romney are very different people.. Obama does not and did not have the net worth of Romney, by far I am
sure.. a senator's pay is probably like a parental allowance to Romney.. so it's hardly saintly to me that he opted out of it..

Ultimately I am more concerned about political issues.. policy points and things that actually matter.. I'm not going to consider voting based on
who's going to have a better retirement and at what cost to me .. which by the way, is probably extremely tiny when divided among all of the tax
payers in the country.. I can probably pay my share of that with cash I have laying around in the couch cushions.

So again.. I ask what is the point? .. there doesn't seem to be one other than to bicker and deflect from the issues that actually DO matter..

I think you make good points about Net Worth and the pure humor in watching two rich men bitch about who has more and who was rich first or earned it
best. Umm.. Kinda like a couple criminals debating the ethics of Residential vs. Commercial burglary as if there were a difference that mattered to
everyone else. lol....

In fairness though...I'd be shocked to speechlessness if ANY President takes the office and then refuses the compensation that comes as part of it.
No one has in recent memory, if ever. I really doubt we see the very first one here. So...how is a sitting President at fault for receiving what the
Public through Congress has decreed that job should pay? I mean he didn't even pass anything new for the subject that I know of.

The last major change was cutting Secret Service protection to former Presidents so they no longer get it unlimited for life. Clinton being the last
one to fall under that benefit.

Obama also has increased his personal net worth since 2004 up from under 1 milion dollars to to well over (based on some estimates as much as 11
million) 7 million. That's some smooth investing don't you think? Why can’t he manage America’s money that well?

It's estimated that Romney's net worth is approximately 250 million as of 2012.. Obama's net worh is estimated at 11.8 million as of 2010 ( don't
have more current figures ) ...

Originally posted by buster2010
Comparison is a fail. No one knows how much Romney is worth even he won't admit how much he is worth. His wealth is hidden in blind trust funds
overseas.

Romney has earned all of his money (other than any trusts or inheritance of course) Obama simply sponged off of taxpayers in as a State Senator and
now as POTUS.

Only thing I will say to this .. purely out of personal opinion.. I'm not sure how much of the money Romney has "earned" .. his tactics for making his
money and sheltering much of it from tax ( how much is unknown ) .. as well as exploiting loop holes ( but hey.. who wouldn't ) .. makes his economic
practices shady at best.. I don't care much about this when it comes to his elect-ability except for it's moral worth.. however I don't like using
the term "earned" in context with Romney's fmassive bank account because I'm just not so sure it fits completely.

As for Obama "sponging" ... well that's just silly .. he's an elected official who got a salary... most of them do .. he's a president who will be
getting reitrement... guess what? ... I bet most, if not all have taken it .. so it's silly to say that in my mind.. I doubt Bush turned his down...
or Clinton .. or George Sr.... or Reagan ..

It matters nothing to the Obama people here complaining about a thread showing their man Obama also has accounts in the Cayman Islands and China and
his Tax Accountant can also use any and all Loopholes every other Rich Person Uses,,, The biggest point is this, Obama is not what he wants people to
believe he is, Just Like The Average Family Man.

UPDATE: PolitiFact, the fact-checking arm of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, has confirmed that Obama does participate in the Illinois pension
fund, which was organized in the Cayman Islands and has interests in China.

And Romney's Retirement.

His Individual Retirement Account could be worth in the neighborhood of $87 million, as documented in an extensive report from the Washington
Post.

www.cnbc.com...
Romney's Rich and We All Know He's Rich, Wasn't it Obama that told you all,,,,"I Feel Your Pain."
That's B. S. who pays for his vehicles to be fill up? Who pays for his food and drinks? Who pays for his Vacations?

There's a rumor going around, Romney may not take a salary as POTUS like two other Presidents before him, he my donate his salary to charity.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000Kinda like a couple criminals debating the ethics of Residential vs. Commercial burglary as if there
were a difference that mattered to everyone else. lol....

I agree whole heartedly – I guess I’d just say what is worse a criminal who steals from another business through questionable business practices
or a politician who steals from us all through is legislative agenda? The business man has made no oath to do anything other than make maximum profit
for his shareholders, while the politician is supposed to be looking out for us.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000So...how is a sitting President at fault for receiving what the Public through Congress has decreed that
job should pay? I mean he didn't even pass anything new for the subject that I know of.

I don’t hold them at fault at all – I think Obama started the whole thing by stating yours is bigger than mine in the debate. The point is
comparing the two is apples and oranges. Romney invested his earned income and lives off the investments – he already paid his income taxes on his
240 million now he pays capital gains only. I am fine with that.

Originally posted by miniatusOnly thing I will say to this .. purely out of personal opinion.. I'm not sure how much of the money Romney
has "earned" …I don't like using the term "earned" in context with Romney's fmassive bank account because I'm just not so sure it fits completely.

Illegal and immoral or unethical are not always the same thing. I guarantee he never broke the law or we’d have heard about it by now. Anyway what
is “work” to one person not necessarily that to everyone.

Where I am from if you are not working at hard labor no one even considers it legitimate “work”. Work is relative term to what people
understand. My daughter went to “work” with me while I was assigned to the Pentagon. She said “You don’t work all you do is go to meetings
and talk on the phone and send e-mails.” Ah, the innocence of the young. All true of course I explained my day of working from the neck down are
long passed.

What he did to earn a living might not be palatable to me personally – I couldn’t do something like Bain but that doesn’t make it wrong.

Originally posted by miniatusAs for Obama "sponging" ... well that's just silly ..

I personally don’t consider working 100 days a year gainfully employed so I call it sponging. That’s the number of days our representatives
“work” in session. They spend some time of course in research and “networking” which is code for finding the highest bidders for their votes
and pandering to those who will keep them in office. The rest of the time they are wined and dined at someone else’s expense (in very comfortable
places) – they already live the lifestyle of the rich and famous. Why do they need to be paid so much. If I had a part time job I’d expect to
make part time wages. They don’t have to pay for anything I bet.

As for his record while a Senator – Obama didn’t even make a vote other than “present”. He was already trying to be everything to everyone so
he could get the POTUS gig. He didn’t represent anyone but Barrack Obama in the Senate. So yeah he was sponging.

Originally posted by miniatus... the amount of money that obama will get from the public is extremely tiny when put into perspective of
all the other wasteful government spending..

I understand why the POTUS is offered a salary – George Washington struggled with this idea, he personally didn’t want compensation; however, he
saw how not offering any would limit the field of possible candidates to only those who were already independently wealthy. I agree that a POTUS
should be compensated or at least offered especially while in the office; however, when these multi-millionaires take it I feel a sense of shame for
them. They already live the life of rich and famous while in the office on our dime basically unlimited expenses and first class travel wherever he
should desire to go.

Retirement is silly in for a POTUS in this day and age – even the demonstrably inept like Carter command high speaking fees. They can their own
ticket to future wealth in terms of speaking fees. There is no need to nickel and dime the taxpayer for it.

Originally posted by miniatusIn fact, public servant or not .. you're entitled to compensation.. I may love what I do but I'm not going
to skip my pay to do it =)

That is your personal choice; however, I am a retired Army Officer – I spent 24 years in and draw about 45K a year in pension. I also own a small
dairy operation for which I pay myself 70K a year. I have entertained running for local Sheriff – the pay for that job is 50K a year. I have
already decided that if I run I will do so on the promise to take $1.00 salary for the term. I don't need it.

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