What do you think about the dumbing down? Is this the age of getting everyone into big trouble? I'm not in much of a position to criticize since the list starts off with Bune and I am with him at the moment. But the way I got to be with him is a long story and it isn't through reading articles like these.

What do you think about the dumbing down? Is this the age of getting everyone into big trouble? I'm not in much of a position to criticize since the list starts off with Bune and I am with him at the moment. But the way I got to be with him is a long story and it isn't through reading articles like these.

I think this is the right attitude with which to in initially approach the grimoires. You see a list of cool things to do, and then say to yourself "I should be doing cool things like that. I want to be rich, fly around, disappear, all of that stuff." If a person did not have such aspirations, I don't really understand what is their motive in messing about with magic in the first place.

What becomes clear, almost immediately, is that your mileage may vary. Different spirits respond differently to different people, and if you're not in a position to actually use the things they do for you, you're not going to get very much out of it. James Bond needs a silencer pistol and an exploding attaché case, but do you? A spirit that helps you raid enemy fortifications helps you do just that, not end a dispute with the neighbor over the way your lawn gnomes clash with their floral color scheme. Part of working with the spirits is becoming the sort of person who can actually make use of their powers.

It appears that most people start with the 26th spirit, Bune, in the hope of getting rich. None of those people, so far as I am aware, and certainly none of the dozens I know, have gotten rich from it. Riches are different than wealth, and I would say that the primary difference is that riches can be appreciated but not necessarily spent. Here I have a pile of gems, literally freezer bags full of them, fossil treasures, coral and ivory, and a comfortable life. I do fun and interesting things, and it's really enough for me, but it's a massive stretch of the imagination to say that I'm "rich" on account of demon conjuring.

Calling "Camio" to understand animals also sounds good, but in order to understand the kind of creatures you specify, you are going to have to spend a lot of time with them. That's great if you own them, live on a farm, etc, but otherwise the singular commonality in all the folks I've seen employ this power is that you end up terrifying the creatures and they flee in panic.

Paimon, one of the more powerful spirits, can be difficult to conjure. The name itself comes from the Pym, the equivalent of a penny back in Biblical times, and it's next to impossible to find someone who is not in some way obligated on account of money, so in turn it is very likely that whoever calls this spirit will be in some way subject to its whims. That makes getting the spirit to cooperate with you somewhat more difficult, but it also makes it easier to convince people who are obsessed with money to cooperate with you.

Zepar is one of those spirits who are called when people can't get over a break-up, and his power in that regard is to make your personal situation so awful that you'll finally be glad to get rid of the person.

Andromalius is one of the few spirits who I can say has done a really good thing for most of the people who call it, that I have known. This spirit resolves persecution, threats, thefts, injustice of all sorts. Make sure that you can stand the cross-examinations if you call for justice.

Forneus, alias Phoroneus, was an ancestral deity of several Mediterranean tribes, and its appearance in the Goetia is blended with the Keto, although for me the apparition was a woman. I have seen this spirit bring a person to linguistic fluency within six months using three sentences a day, and it has helped me navigate business deals in Abu Dhabi and Monaco, where I spent the last week or so communicating exclusively in French which I don't really know.

Foras was one of the first spirits I had conjured, and it had the appearance of some hulking monstrous australopithecine. I had asked it for the ability to sustain injuries, and its agreement was the enchantment of an egg as in the myth of Koschei. I was almost immediately crushed by a large tree limb, which should have squished me like a bug, but which instead only pushed my head instantly to precisely the level of the ground without the slightest bruise. The spirit's power was useful again when I fell maybe eight feet onto a rock, landing on my head, again without the slightest injury besides needing to grab a thorn vine to avoid falling into the river below where I was left hanging.

Zagan is the spirit to call when you have a lot of those "riches" I mentioned earlier, and no cash. Its power is to turn anything worth something into coin. I used this power to sell a large amount of diamonds at a good price, and make a substantial investment. Not having something worth turning into coin might prove problematic with this spirit.

Gaap is a "gateway" spirit to dealing with the Four Great Kings who measure the leash of these spirits in their dealings with you. This is the spirit to call to find out what you need to do to get into the place you need to be in order to actually get those other spirits to work for you. It has also the power to make gifts received in the spirit with which you give them, which was very helpful to me in presenting an intricate work of my Arabic calligraphy to the Saudi royal family last November.

Ose was a very interesting spirit for me but not the most practically useful. I struggle to find ways to convince people that they are better than they think of themselves, and its recipe for longevity has encouraged me to study some alternative research on the subject.

I have not called the spirit Vepar, but expect that it would be very useful if a person had a personal stake in the three-ring-circus of the current war theater.

Ref. Imperial Arts' post: when I said "what do you think abut the dumbing down?" I meant that not everyone would approach this in the same mature way as Imperial Arts, and they could end up putting themselves in danger. Imperial Arts said in a previous discussion that when he first started out the information was hard to find; these days it is being excessively popularized.

Lazarus Benedict, on 04 May 2017 - 11:41 PM, said:

The Goetics are getting a lot of attention in recent times...

.

Yes, they are because at the moment they are asking people to make devotional posts about them on the internet. They haven't asked me to do that because they regard me as a bit of a loose cannon who would l start off saying something complimentary and then add comments like "why on earth are we all getting ourselves into such a lot of trouble?"

Spida, on 05 May 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

@SuccubusSherry

What do you mean when you say you are with Bune? What manifestations do you receive that confirms it is a Goetic Demon, and this Demon in particular?

I haven't worked with Goetic Demons, so I'm just curious. That's all.

Regards

Spida, please don't get me started about spirits I am 'with' because I could go on and on about them until it becomes boring.
What happened was that back in 2014 I was involved in a group project with some chaos magicians which was all about empowering some new servitors, and I was quite excited about it because I'm not usually very good at working with groups and it looked like this time it was going to work out.

A guy came along who said that Bune had sent him. He was one of those who does both ceremonial magic and chaos magic, of which there are quite a few these days, and you CAN mix the two. Apparently he evoked Bune and then channelled Bune's suggestions to the group, and at first the group liked the sound of them. It was just a name to me that didn't mean anything, and yet I felt that I wanted to do my part of the project as well as possible, to impress Bune.

After a bit the project folded up, but I continued to do things that were inspired by it, and several months ago I decided to intensify this activity. My usual way of contacting entities is to use pictures of them and visualizations, so I started to visualize Bune and use his seal. I hadn't taken into account how magnetic demons are (even though I've known some before) and before I knew it I was all enmeshed in........well, let's just say, pacts like those people talk about who make the devotional posts about him on the internet. He is very strong and makes the servitors look insignificant by comparison.

Ref. Imperial Arts' post: when I said "what do you think abut the dumbing down?" I meant that not everyone would approach this in the same mature way as Imperial Arts, and they could end up putting themselves in danger. Imperial Arts said in a previous discussion that when he first started out the information was hard to find; these days it is being excessively popularized.

.

Yes, they are because at the moment they are asking people to make devotional posts about them on the internet. They haven't asked me to do that because they regard me as a bit of a loose cannon who would l start off saying something complimentary and then add comments like "why on earth are we all getting ourselves into such a lot of trouble?"

Spida, please don't get me started about spirits I am 'with' because I could go on and on about them until it becomes boring.
What happened was that back in 2014 I was involved in a group project with some chaos magicians which was all about empowering some new servitors, and I was quite excited about it because I'm not usually very good at working with groups and it looked like this time it was going to work out.

A guy came along who said that Bune had sent him. He was one of those who does both ceremonial magic and chaos magic, of which there are quite a few these days, and you CAN mix the two. Apparently he evoked Bune and then channelled Bune's suggestions to the group, and at first the group liked the sound of them. It was just a name to me that didn't mean anything, and yet I felt that I wanted to do my part of the project as well as possible, to impress Bune.

After a bit the project folded up, but I continued to do things that were inspired by it, and several months ago I decided to intensify this activity. My usual way of contacting entities is to use pictures of them and visualizations, so I started to visualize Bune and use his seal. I hadn't taken into account how magnetic demons are (even though I've known some before) and before I knew it I was all enmeshed in........well, let's just say, pacts like those people talk about who make the devotional posts about him on the internet. He is very strong and makes the servitors look insignificant by comparison.

@Violetstar You have implied several times recently that I can't tell the difference between serious presentations and spoof ones, or theatrical ones. I shall certainly watch out in case I have suddenly lost the ability to tell the difference. What a pity if I have- I'll soon be carried off by men in white coats.

So your manifestations are of a microcosmic context then. If I remember right, I think Crowley placed emphasis in this arena, as far as the Ars Goetia. But it is true that internal mechanisms can cause external manifestations(as within so without), which is common with the Shadow Person Phenomena. So more precisely I was wondering if this has ever been your experience.

I find it common for Entities to manifest subconsciously, although this is quite subjective. But repetition and context lends credence to this, as I am always seeing my focus directed at certain things. Such as repeating number patterns. Of course this has nothing to do with Demons.