Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry

David Flynn disparages fatherhood

Australia’s White Ribbon Campaign has continued it’s tradition of feminist inspired male loathing by targeting the release of its latest research paper Fathers, Fathering and Preventing Violence Against Women[1]to coincide with, well naturally, Fathers Day. What better time to blame and shame this tiny minority of men than the day designed to celebrate the positive contribution to their families and society made by the vast majority of good and decent fathers?

Perhaps they were just following the lead of British Prime Minister David Cameron’s notorious 2011 Fathers Day speech where he claimed absent fathers should be “stigmatized” by society in the same way as drink-drivers.[2] Note that in the UK an “absent parent” is a legal term with the same meaning as “non custodial parent” or “non resident parent” in other jurisdictions, so Cameron chose to engage in the ubiquitously popular western sport of male bashing by targeting absent fathers rather than absent parents, with the implication that all such fathers were absent by choice — which is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.

To write their latest feminist propaganda White Ribbon Australia engaged yet another “F” word, in the personage of David Flynn, who now competes with Flood and Fischer for prime status within in the elite ideological feminist enclave that is the Victorian DV Services and Academia. You can see Flynn in action spruiking[3] his misandric nonsense for Vic Health on YouTube. [4]

Here are just a few of the false premises on which this paper bases its necessarily false conclusions.

It adopts a social constructionist’s viewpoint.

While the nature versus nurture debate will no doubt continue for a long time to come, it seems to be only feminists who continue to assert the extreme polar view of social constructionism of maleness and femaleness. Most non- ideologically motivated scholars will agree that both contribute significantly to the human condition and the conflict revolves around the relative contributions of each.

Flynn states “fatherhood is socially constructed, not biologically determined” and that “gender inequalities in the family are maintained and reinforced and any power inequalities are ignored or dismissed as ‘natural’. The prevention of men’s violence against women, however, requires us to name these power inequalities for what they are.”

No mention is made of the “natural” position of power within the family domain, traditionally and still assumed by women, or the sexual, economic (spending) and emotional power they wield over men in relationships.

It is based on the sex based Duluth paradigm

As with all feminist dogma this paper only focuses on “violence against women” and ignores the fact the reciprocal violence has been repeatedly shown to be the most common form of intimate partner violence. Respected researcher Donald Dutton was prompted to call his 2007 paper on the subject “The Duluth model: A data-impervious paradigm and a failed strategy.” [5] Feminists have ignored repeated calls for a sex inclusive approach. One such call was put forward in the excellent recent paper by UK researchers Louise Dixon and Nicola Graham-Kevan in their paper Understanding the nature and etiology of intimate partner violence and implications for practice and policy published in the Clinical Psychology Review in 2011[6].

Flynn however demonstrates a shameful lack of inclusivity that extends beyond ignoring mere male victims, to female victims of abusive same sex partners. Only female victims of male perpetrators are afforded care and consideration under this comprehensively repudiated model.

Flynn maintains, “Most importantly gendered[sic] power inequalities are a key underlying cause of men’s violence against women.” He then of goes on to cite the “gender” pay gap, unequal division of domestic labor, men’s access to power in status in the world of work outside the home and other feminist myths to argue for the so called male privilege and entitlement that is supposedly genetically transmitted on the y chromosome.

“Male privilege’ refers to the benefits and advantages that men receive, purely as a result of being a member of the dominant gender[sic].”

and

“If men have an expectation and belief that they will be dominant over women – a sense of entitlement – then they are likely to choose behaviors that are violent or abusive in order to obtain and maintain dominance, power and control.”

The paper attacks masculinity as inherently evil and denies a need for male role modeling. Flynn falsely states that “Masculine culture rewards men who are solid economic providers,” when he should be stating the majority of women are hypergamous and sexually select such males. Indeed, the need for men or fathers in family life is portrayed as redundant.

“The concept of a ‘male role model,’ therefore, is built on the assumption that femininity is subordinate to masculinity and by implication, that women are inferior to men.”

And

“[…]ideas about masculinity are intimately connected to both physical and non-physical forms of violence against women.”

And

“Some fathers are physically violent to their partners and ex-partners. Many are emotionally abusive and controlling. Many more continue to enjoy the privileges that come with being the dominant gender,”

Flynn would get on well with biology professor Greg Hampikian author of a recent misandric opinion piece in the New York Times, “Men, Who Needs Them?”[7] Which asserted men will soon be unnecessary for the continuation of womanity and concluded that women are only likely to “keep men around” because they are “entertaining.”

Flynn argues forandrogynous parenting rather than mothering and fathering. Conjuring up images of socialist utopias where the state is responsible for child rearing with the nature being nurtured out of children both in the home and via state controlled childcare and education centers, creating a willing, complicit and docile populace.

“There is no ‘one way’ to father and no special ‘male role’ for fathers in the family.”

It goes on:

“Cultural ideas of gender and parenting tend to assume that women and men are naturally, fundamentally and inalterably different from one another.”

“The widespread belief among men, that we do make a unique contribution to parenting, says a lot about us, our sense of entitlement, and our desire to feel ‘important.”

“Perhaps it is a reaction to the unique contribution that mothers are able to make to children – through pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding – that we feel impelled to demand our own comparable uniqueness.”

So women, it appears, are biologically unique but men are a needless optional extra.

It falsely links “violence against women” with child abuse, despite the evidence that violence between parents is most commonly bidirectional and that any violence witnessed by children is detrimental. Suffice it to say that no mention is made of protecting male or female children from the predominant child abusers, women, or the protective value of biological fathers in intact families.

“But by deliberately targeting a woman’s mothering, men are being violent, not just to the women themselves but to their children as well.”

“Exposure to domestic violence is increasingly considered a form of child abuse”

One would have to search far and wide to find a more grotesque and comprehensively demeaning piece of misandric nonsense than this discussion paper, perhaps not unsurprisingly White Ribbon Keeps coming up with such goods at taxpayer’s expense. I call that shameful. So in order to bring some balance to the situation, I suggest White Ribbon also make the following recommendations for women and mothers.

Women can help to prevent family violence by:

1

Being non-violent (This includes in addition physical violence, emotional, sexual and financial abuse, and use of children as weapons to punish non custodial fathers.)

2

Respecting fundamental human rights of the father and the children of the relationship and not interfering with their rights to meaningful and ongoing relationships even after separation and divorce.

Sharing financial decisions and resources equally rather then maintaining the strangle hold on most family spending and coercing your male partner into working harder and longer to support your spending and lifestyle.

5

Promoting gender equality by negotiating the division of labor both inside and outside the home, and realizing the in the end paid and unpaid work balances out for the good of the family

6

Rejecting Feminist Dogma and gendered paradigms of understanding violence and joining with other men women and children and saying in a loud and unified voice, “to family violence, and all violence Australia says NO”

[3]Spruik verb [ no obj. ] Australian informal; speak in public, especially to advertise a show: men who spruik outside striptease joints. Promote or publicize: the company forked out $15 million to spruik its digital revolution.

About Greg Canning

Greg is father, Family Physician and medical educator located in North Queensland, with interests in mens rights and exposing the corrupt domestic abuse industry. He is also the News Director for AVfM Australia.

Very good article. I found this quote from the paper quite interesting:

“Contemporary fathers experience the tension between the competing expectations of
being a good ‘provider’ on the one hand, yet ‘being there’ for their children on the other.
But as this paper explores, when these two demands are at odds, more often than not
it is the traditional ‘providing’ aspect of fathering that wins out. Despite the large scale
social and economic changes that have occurred over the past few decades, fatherhood
has been remarkably resistant to meaningful change.”

During a divorce “the traditional ‘providing’ aspect of fathering [snip] wins out”. Perhaps a first step these people could take to fight “resistan[ance] to meaningful change” is to shame the feminists/government from viewing men as only providers. Perhaps they should get their own house in order before attempting to change others.

Their paper seems to be a bunch of contradictory babel……

keyster

Here in the US of A whenever anyone mentions “absentee fathers” it’s usually in the context of our black urban communities. It’s veiled racism.

Feminists LIKE and WANT fathers to be absent, as long as the checks keep coming.

http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

@Keyster

I agree wholeheartedly Ol’Boy.

@the author of this paper the article is based on; I think my zany ideas are going to be neatly packed in a “article suitcase” and travel to Australia.

Target Locked and aquired. I hate this sort of nonsense.

To our Brothers down unda; keep the faith boys, we are all behind you. No sooner did you get breathing room in 06, these knumbskulls came and ruined it for you. Time to tell the feminist social technicians to put their “tools” back in the bag! And just go home, their services will not be required at the “all male” production plant!

Tawil

Well said, spot on.

Arvy

“Flynn argues for androgynous parenting.”

So he’s really saying that motherhood and well as fatherhood are outmoded concepts?

Sounds to me like an invatation for the state creche to take over all parental responsibilities and thus “liberate” both sexes for exclusive full-time devotion to labour force participation. Mind you, other “androgynous” parenting facilities, such as TV sets and electronic games, already have a very important role to play.

Family?! What family? It’s a brave new world. Welcome to it kids. Please don’t forget to show your androgynous identifiers to your custodial monitors assigned for today’s parenting.

Raven01

It also sounds like Flynn should be advocating for 50% custody awards in divorce for both men and women.
When he, “No, but..”‘s then he leaves himself open to the numerous studies on fatherlessness and female abuse of children.
I’d be tempted to do it myself except that first I have take on a bit much at the moment and, secondly it would feel a bit like teasing a mentally handicapped person about their inability to solve calculus problems.

Arvy

My bet would be on the mentally handicapped person. At least they’re not willfully ignorant.

Yes, Flynn’s “logic” would lead to quite a few self-contradictory conclusions, but that’s inevitable when it’s all rooted in faulty premises. Teaching him elementary syllogisms would be an even greater challenge than calculus, I’m afraid.

BioCan

Great article, Greg. An excellent refutation of feminist dogma that has been repeated ad nauseum.

He claims that fatherhood is an outdated concept. I think he’s entirely wrong about that since he has no proof to show that it is on a steady decline. Millions of families across North America and Australia still have one father and one mother. It is also a preferred relationship for parenting purposes.

Anyway, feminism is definately an outdated concept. This is the same type of feminist claptrap that I see in every single article they always make.

I’ve seen this countless times:

“Male privilege refers to the benefits and advantages that men receive, purely as a result of being a member of the dominant gender[sic].”

They are as willing to change as the Catholic Church or other religious institutions. Then again, they operate just like them. He was just spouting off the feminist commandments again. The next article written by a feminist will do the same thing.

They still rabble on about male superiority as being critical to female inferiority. Evidence of female inferiority is needed there. I recently discovered that young women are more capable of leaving home to find work and become self-determined than young men are nowadays. The times are changing, but feminism always stays the same.

Sting Chameleon

” I recently discovered that young women are more capable of leaving home to find work and become self-determined than young men are nowadays.”

HAHAHAHAHA NO. Young me are unwilling to do so because there’s no real incentive to it, not because they’re unable to do it.

BioCan

That’s essentially it. I didn’t mean that men are physically or mentally incapable of doing so. But, today’s economy has made men less prominent in many sectors, especially the growing service sector. In light of labour leaving North America, the result has been many more millions of men than women who are unemployed and can’t find work. Another growing sector is the public sector. The problem with that is that it mostly employs women (here in Canada it is above 80% for health and public services) and affirmative action makes it an unequal field of work.

Raven01

“Male privilege refers to the benefits and advantages that men receive, purely as a result of being a member of the dominant gender[sic].”
Coming up a photo series on this “patriarchal male privilege”.

And, damn Flickr’s 300MB/month upload limit, I may have to get a premium account.

This board was linked to by an O’shaugnessy with some typical cretin, hateful cunt remark about ‘yeay! females successfully steal children from fathers nearly 100% of the time’..

godspeed

The Real Peterman

All I can think to say is, what an idiot.

Robert St. Estephe

Yes, the guy is an idiot as a human being. But as a paid-for agent of cultural marxism he is spending Australians’ tax dollars just as the ruling elite wants them spent: in anti-family propaganda that will make the next generation of children serfs under the thumb of the financier-owned STATE.

Understand your enemy: or lose the battles over and over again.

http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

Gave this a link on my blog and may on another I write on. Well done.

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

There’s not enough bile in all the world to sufficiently puke on this subterfuge.

7) Do not deprive and neglect the needs of your partner, because that is definitely domestic abuse: Do not withhold sex or deprive your partner of fulfilling his sexual needs for use as an extortive, manipulative tool to control him.

goannagirl

Ah yes, the great “women are the only ones who use sex for power” idea. Sadly it’s not the case and withholding intamacy is so common that sex therapists and marriage councillors have a term for it. “Normal Sexual Sadism.” Both sexes that do it so often as a form of punishment it’s considered every day. It’s not right, but remember guys, it’s not only women who do it.

Why does this article have guidelines for women at the end? if you really want to make it something worth following have guidelines for famalies or partners. non gender specific.

if you really want to make it something worth following have guidelines for famalies or partners. non gender[sic] specific

Duh, are you familiar with the White Ribbon Campaign, Walk a Mile in Her Shoes or any other of the endless stream of campaigns enjoying government, academic and media support that preach at men as the sole source and therefore solution to the problem of domestic violence and other issues?

That is the point of guidelines at the end of the article, cupcake. By creating a parody it illustrates the absurdity of the other sexually targeted guidelines and campaigns.

Get a grip, and a clue while you’re at it.

goannagirl

I’m new to all of this and have not attacked anyone. No, I might be vaugly aware of these campaigns but I’m trying to find out what it they and other issues mean to the guys here. The above were genuine questions and you start off the bat with “cupcake” and “get a clue”? Thanks so much for helping me see your point of view.

Oh do fuck off. You barged in sneering, both at the article and at another who commented here.

Then you had your ignorance exposed (rather, you did it yourself) and now called on it, you want to put your hair in pigtails and paint yourself into the “Gee, I am just trying to understand and got attacked without provocation,” department.

Nobody around here buys bullshit like that.

The proper etiquette would have been to wipe the egg off your face, say excuse me, and start over.

Lack accountability much, cupcake?

go_annagirl

Lol Paul, whatevers. For the record I’m not a chick but wondered just how quickly the “reasoned dialogue” my buddy assured me was on here would degenerate into tedious name calling if I seemed to be. I’m anti extremist from both sides of this little war you are waging. Thought there might be some actual insight and possible friendships to Jain here, but its just the ussual bile I’ve come to expect from both masculine and extreme femenist groups. You choose how to interact with your world. I choose not to waste any more of my time with you.

Bile you dish out, bile you get, whether you sport a vagina or a penis. That is pretty much true everywhere, not just here. You came in insulting people and then acted shocked that you were not treated with respect and offer that as evidence that we are extremists who don’t have reasoned dialogue. Complete intellectual dishonesty. Whatever your sex is, you’re a stupid bitch. Now get the fuck out.

“For the record I’m not a chick but wondered just how quickly the “reasoned dialogue” my buddy assured me was on here would degenerate into tedious name calling if I seemed to be.”

So you basically came in here with the specific intend of picking a fight, and then you start bitching about receiving harsh language because of it?

What did you expect would happen?

There’s a fine line between provocation and reasonable discussion, and you clearly think that we can’t tell the difference.

Stu

In my country, a man withdrawing/withholding affection or sex from his wife, is guilty of domestic violence. At the same time, a man nagging his wife, who is withholding sex, is guilty of domestic violence.

Recently a french court fined a man the equal of 10k US for withholding sex from his wife while at the same time, feminist laws regard him doing the same as abuse.

And you demand we be balanced?

Go fuck yourself. We are here to fuck their shit up, not to be slowly co-opted as yet another voice for women’s rights, that is every other site in the world. We are concerned with men here……nothing else….and that is the way it will stay until the law, the courts, the cops, and all the other institutions become balanced instead of feminist puppets.

Tawil

“Go fuck yourself. We are here to fuck their shit up, not to be slowly co-opted as yet another voice for women’s rights..”

Well said Stu…

http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

Would you care to show where anyone here suggested that only women use withholding sex as a power move?

The person with the attitude problem is generally the new one to the forum who walks in and starts sarcastically telling everyone else what’s wrong with them. Why don’t you try understanding where people are coming from first?

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

Excellent point anna, thank you, thank you, we will get right on that. Now scuttle your little but on over to David Flynn’s domain and unleash your powers of justice and intrepid sense of balance upon his filth. We are counting on you, do not let us down. I’m watching you, Neytiri, I mean it, don’t fail us.. your powers are too great to just waste..

Mercer Williams

Say it with me now:

“DULUTH IS NOT TRUTH!”

Gotta love the two-bit white knights who disparage every other member of their gender, but hold themselves up as “good men” just for some female approval.

Here’s a little food for thought for you types that are reading this:

You’re not the only one who believes he is the “one good man” out of a sea of evil rapist violence bastard men. Turns out, there are many others who think just like you (the exact same men that you condemn, mind you). Guess what? To them, you’re no better than Charles Manson. Basically, all those nasty things you say men are responsible for? You’re not exempt, boyo.

kiwihelen

So much has been made of the relationship and paternity status of MRAs, so this has got me asking a few questions about David Flynn.
Mr Flynn what was the constitution of the household in your family of origin?
Do you have an intact personal relationship with your father or any other male biological relative?
If you do not, at what age did you last have contact with your father?
Are you a father?
If you are, do you spend meaningful periods of time parenting your child?
What gender are your biological children?
Do you believe your child gains no benefit from your parenting that could not be obtained from a female parent?

Honestly, I got the feeling to paraphrase Tarwil “haters will hate”…and that’s one guy who hates himself

Bombay

Yes, this is what I think as well. Children can gain “special” benefit from contact with many people, not just parents. And this self-hater cannot bring himself to recognize that a father can be one of these people. What a looser.

kiwihelen

My male best friend has demonstrated frequently how much value a nurturing non-father role model can have – I am always astounded how kids engage with him and enjoy his sense of fun.
When we were in the shared household with a small boy with physical disabilities, he was far more able to engage this child in necessary physical therapy than either me or his mother could, and he was far more aware of how far to push the wee fellas boundaries. I can remember on several occasions finding the two of them sprawled on the grass watching clouds, having ‘mind and body chill out’ sessions if the wee fella was out if sorts after a tough session of PT. Yet equally he got the wee fella into his first vertical bungee session well before his mother would have considered he was ready. This wee man is now 12 and you would have to be a child development specialist to spot his delays. His mother attributes huge credit for this to my friend who was in no way related to this child.
I do believe gender influences huge parts of our thinking and actions, and the idea that gender neutral parenting is sufficient is BS.

On a more serious note, I think you’re 100% right. I’ve seen it many times myself. For whatever reason, people from outside the immediate family often seem able to engage with kids in ways that their own parents can’t quite manage.

And I think, too, that the benefits are often mutual. It may sound strange, but kids seem to give at least as much satisfaction and pleasure as they receive in such interactions.

kiwihelen

As an auntie/godmother/adult friend I get such joy out of being part of young people’s lives. It’s not a burden for me at all to spend time with kids this way.
Yeah, shocking the idea of non related adults living in a house with a child…but it was a stable and functional living arrangement for 3 years and the bio Dad had the wee man after school and overnight for about 40% of total time. He remains a firm friend as does the Mum even though there has been lots of changes to all our lives since then.
Ya might have guessed I’m not averse to experiments in non-nuclear households as long as the child(ren’s) welfare is centre most in all the adult’s considerations.
But it does take the folk involved to be pretty damn Zeta for it to work!

Zarathos022

” The widespread belief about fathers, that we do make unique contribution to parenting, says a lot about us, our sense of entitlement, and our desire to feel important.”

Wow, nice going Mr. Flynn.

I’m sure that YOUR father must feel so damn proud of bringing you into the world after this.

You fucking prick!

Rper1959

Flynn sees “gender inequality” as the prime “social” determinant of “violence against women” ( conveniently ignoring the well known Bio and Psycho elements of the “Biopsychosocial model” along with unemployment , education, family of origin, drug and alcohol abuse etc ) then proceeds to present a most gender unequal view of this one minor factor, blatant hypocrisy on so many levels, yet one of the defining features of feminist hypocrisy is their blindness to it, and their core belief that their dogma somehow promotes equality between the sexes.

Arvy

I think you just defined a religious cult. Makes me wonder if rational responses could ever prevail.

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

As if sticking a kid’s face into your tit is some kind of meaningfully ‘unique contribution’. Bwahahahahah……….. what a fucking hemorrhoid.

I hate to break it to you, Oprah and all you narcissism drunk cunts, but ‘bearing children’ is largely a passive process. You simply **let** the thing grow. It does all the work without any particular initiative or volition of your own, except for, woe be tide, carrying around the extra 20 lbs for 9 months, which men do every day of their lives by genetic determinism.

If anything, ‘bearing’ children is a free pass to light duty activity, reception of charity, and generally making life relatively easy. The brief period of actual labor is tough, yes, as are all kinds of comparable activities that people regularly perform and are not regarded as heroic or somehow sanctified. The female role in the reproductive process has been over-rated, over-sold and altogether over-glorified, by none other than the narcissists themselves- surprise. As Bill Burr aptly says, “really, bending at the knees to put the DVD in the DVD player, while in your pajamas, the hardest job in the world?.. Really?.. I thought roofing in the middle of July was the hardest job in the world… you’re off the grid for christ’s sake…”

So, of course, we have this shitfuck asserting fatherhood is not a ‘unique contribution’ while curiously void is articulation of any particularly significant, unique contribution of motherhood, aside from amoeboid replication and ceiling expertise. Oh yeah, and the highest rates of child abuse. Go on, gurl.

externalangst

This comment reminds me of a scene in ‘My Name is Earl’ when the frustrated pregnant woman exasperated with some trivial annoyance exclaims (paraphrasing in reference to the unborn child):

“Don’t bother me now I might be working on something important like his brain or weener (penis).”

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

Ha! Classic. The tender, loving sex.. to be sure..
I love Jason Lee, he’s a total classic.

Carlos

Haha.. I read the first paragraph and was thinking that responding with a link to that skit by Bill Burr would fit perfect but you beat me to it.

goannagirl

Largely a passive process? lol. Right. Try it some time.

I agree with a lot of this article but not to dumbass comments like this. Being a parent (male or female) is hard work, demanding, amazing, satisfying, frustrating, lonely, full of camaraderie, filled with wonder and revelations and the biggest learning curve you can possibly undertake. The first four years at least are intensive with no break, and you get to do it under long term sleep deprivation.

To call it easy. Wow. You just have no idea.

Theseus

For the record, I agree with everything you said about parenting ( I am the father of twins). Problem is…that’s not what Perseus was talking about. He was talking about child bearing, not child rearing. And yes, I agree with his point that child bearing is grossly overrated as “the most difficult job in the world”. No, keeping cool in a war zone while bullets are wizzing past your head, and hauling in tuna in the middle of a storm while waves as big as tsunamis threaten to capsize your boat and kill everyone on board, would definitely rank as jobs far more difficult than child bearing.

go_annagirl

So this is where I tell you I’m a male nurse in a women’s hospital and see daily how “easy it is.” It’s not. About 2.45% of pregnancies are “normal.” And birth can and often does leave with woman with long term medical problems. Until you see it first hand its probably hard to fathom.

I agree keeping cool in a warzone is tough, I did 4 years of service. However that’s comparing a zuccini to a car. The basis for true comparison isn’t there. Both are bloody tough.

OneHundredPercentCotton

I’m a woman who has borne three children and find this new age “birthing is as dangerous as searching out IEDs” to be hilarious.

After decades and decades of improved birthing methods, suddenly it seems to have nosedived into “warzone” odds of life and death.

I’ve had feminists assure me I BARELY made it out alive by enduring child birth, I have cracks and fissures, and life threatening hemmies I’m not EVEN aware of!

Bad enough when women engage in the drama, totally obnoxious to hear a man doing it as well.

Kimski

We’ve got 2 people in here who has been employed in your line of work, me being one of them, and I’ve been involved in more deliveries than you can possibly imagine.

I can’t count the number of times when I’ve seen women walk out the door less than 10 hours after giving birth, and in my country here in Scandinavia it is the norm, that are widely acceptet by doctors, patients and medical staff equally.
It is even recommended, and benefits both mother and child.

You clearly don’t know the first thing about this subject, and pampering women that has given birth is primarily an american phenomena, that is only shared with a very few other english speaking countries.

You know why?
There’s absolutely no point in it, if both mother and child are fine, and it basically just takes up bedspace from people who are in real need of medical treatment.

That doesn’t strike me as being particularly life threatening.

Ballast

Its amazing how overstated factoids can be. I’m thankful that I live in a world of modern medicine.

Ballast

@kimski, I read an interesting book, “Birth; a History” about the politics of doctors, midwives and birth. Its still a nessisary thing for women to take 6 – 10 weeks to physically recover to a pre birth (not pre pregnancy) state, assuming nothing went awry, isn’t it? Its facinating reading, the over the top politics but also traditional cultural views of all of it. I should say, lest I be accused of being snide here, I really want to know.

Kimski

Notice, that I only mentioned the utter futility of lying in a bed in a hospital for a week, when you are perfectly capable of normal functioning.

Childbirth in itself is no more stressful to the body than any other surgical procedure, and as such needs the same amount of recuperation.

You don’t see many male patients being operated for prostate cancer or a kidney stone, which is a lot more serious, that gets pampered and cuddled like women do after a childbirth.

Some women seem to expect to be treated as if they have accomplished some great act of heroism, and not simply done what the majority of 3,5 Billion people on this planet will experience at one time or another during their lifetime.

Tina Cassidy’s book ‘Birth: A History’ should be taken with a huge grain of salt, and you need to do some more research on the authors of the books you read, before you take what they write for granted.

First of all, she is a journalist of the modern era, i.e. her research is the kind of research that we see a lot of so-called ‘journalists’ get away with these days, which is to say that their ‘facts’ are basically based on their personal opinions and viewpoints.

Secondly, she’s a self-proclaimed feminist with the usual victimhood-of-women agenda to push, and this book is clearly written for women, and an obvious attempt to push said agenda.

Most importantly, she has no medical experience or training whatsoever, and taking any medical advise from a person like that, is the equivalent to asking your plumber how to make croissants without yeast.

The same thing could easily be said about her claims of inhereted female victimhood due to childbirth.

When was the last time you saw any other species of mammals being hospitalized for giving birth, btw?
Not even elephants get that kind of special treatment, and they’re squeezing out a 1600 pound baby, after almost 2 years of pregnancy.

OneHundredPercentCotton

I had my first child at 2:00 in the afternoon and was home in time for Christmas dinner at 6:00.

I was told to wait for six weeks to “resume relations”.

That was it. That was all there was to it.

The subsequent sleep deprivation and extremely sore nipples from breast feeding was FAR worse, but no permanent damage or life endangerment. I lost the weight within two months.

Same story with my next two, except I didn’t even have labor pain with them. The doc made a small incision to “help” (probably unnecessary), sewed me back up too tight, (as was the popular request back then), and it took about a year to have sex without extreme pain thanks to the perverse doctor.

I’ve helped deliver two Grandchildren the past three years while their Daddy was in Afghan. My daughter had even less drama.

My mother had six kids, I have three sisters who all had a bunch of kids. Not a death or Oprah-esque drama in the bunch.

It’s not a big deal.

No. Really.

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

Kimski here has mentioned that there are two people who have worked in your line of work.

Make that three. That’s right, I have seen countless hundreds of births and even with modern medicine, painkillers and so on, it ain’t an easy ride. However.

When all is said and done – big bloody deal mate. You sound as though cracking ones legs open and cranking out a kid is akin to splitting the atom, or perhaps as tough as lugging the lode stone to cap the Pyramid at Cheops.

So, I have seen it first hand and it’s very hard to fathom the crap you are spouting.

And yes, please go_annagirl.

kiwihelen

I think you are conflating the issue of ‘normality’ with the excessive medicalisation of birth in many countries in the so-called first world.
Healthy, relatively fit women with no structural abnormalities to their pelvis or reproductive organs can give birth with minimal intervention. It might take longer than is ultimately desirable but nature will take its course and mother and infant will be fine.
There are a couple of problems with this picture. With growing rates of obesity we have big problems with macrosomal infants, also the incredible ignorance about the need for ongoing appropriate physical activity during pregnancy means many women go into labour with poor fitness.
In addition, most women have never seen another woman give birth in a normal context, so they have little to no knowledge about labour. Couple that with excessive monitoring which ties many women to the bed rather than allowing them to freely move during delivery and you are setting up for high of intervention, without even considering the idea that interventions will allow babies to be born at convenient times within shifts.
I shared clinical rooms with a cooperative of midwives, and was welcomed to the ‘if you are not delivering a baby we get together to talk shop’ sessions on Monday mornings. This team served a diverse multiethnic community of women. I participated in shared care of several of the patients during their pregnancies when there were strong histories of gestational diabetes and macrosomia. We had a superb proticol for maximising nutrition and minimising weight gain. Their stepped up intervention rate was around 12% and mostly in middle class white women. They used to joke about which one would take me on as a client if I was pregnant as my profile by their experience was likely to have me demanding intervention.
Labour is just that – hard work. Im not denying this. Women could do a lot to help themselves to make it easier, but it requires agency to do so

MenDiscontinued

It’s like no other woman on the history of the planet has ever made it through birthing! “you’re doing it!”

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

Passive. Yes, like your non-argument drivel apparently intended as some kind of poignant response, or something.

Oh Neytiri, little bitch.. because you are special needs, I’m going to tolerate you. But really, could you at least pretend to pay attention?

I was thinking back to when my wife was pregnant, and how she was catered to every five minutes by family, friends, and even complete strangers. I was like “this is tough”? She admitted that she thoroughly enjoyed being pregnant.

The problem is we are supposed to go along with this systematically entrenched political correctness. Back when he used to slam feminists in his material, Bill Maher would frequently point this out. We would all have to march along in lock step, nodding our heads all the while with the “women have the most difficult job in the world” and “if men had to give birth it would never happen” garbage. The last sentiment is particularly offensive as millions of men endure the most horrendous pain and suffering on a daily basis for numerous reasons.

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

Peace be upon you, my brother.

What a joy to come across a fellow Grecian, really, love the name.

Thrilled that you enjoyed the comment, must admit, it felt pretty good to write 😉

It’s funny, I was a big Maher fan, until the red pill. Now he just strikes me as pandering and non-integral. All simple carb, no fiber.

Bill Burr is so good.

Yeah, the ‘feminine’ charade is so repugnant, I can’t even look at it anymore without getting tremors of revulsion. I will forever be indebted to one, Mr. andybob, for allowing me to see the world through the eyes of a truly free man..

le libertad!

Tawil

“What a joy to come across a fellow Grecian, really, love the name.”

With you both there…. but damned if I can find a suitable character/avatar. You got the best one Perseus, although Theseus is a bit of a legend for having abandoned ‘princess’ Ariadne and sailed off into the sunset, a true MGHIW.

Ok, I’m off to get me a Grecian avatar…. I’ll be back.

http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

😉 thanks Tawil.

I get a huge kick out of your Stewie..

If this continues, we’ll have ourselves a bona fide phalanx soon..

I used to have a buddy around here by the name of Atlas…

Kimski

Odysseus?

Remember Circe, the Dread Goddess, not to mention his own wife, when he returned from the odyssey?

Tawil

I had to look up phalanx…. and yep, thats what we need, a phalanx of Spartans facing down the enemy. 😉

Odysseus coming home from a war started by Helen’s slutty behaviour, now there’s a good one. Not only for his meetings with manipulative Helen, Circe and Calypso, but also for his resistance to the Sirens. There are hundreds of famous paintings depicting him lashed to the mast in defiance of the sirens. He’s an image of resistance to gynocentric hypnosis and a MGHOW. Thanks for the tip.

Tawil goes off searching for images of Odysseus.

Theseus

Yeah, Plus, he beat the crap out of a bull/human hybrid with his bare hands! Can’t have a tougher hero than that.

MrStodern

“The widespread belief among women, that they make a unique contribution to parenting, says a lot about them, their sense of entitlement, and their desire to feel important.”

This would earn anyone who uttered it the label of “misogynist”, no question, no debate. And that’s all I need to say.

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

Unfortunately we do have them here in Australia.

Yes, this white-bread-knight has unsheathed his cork tipped foil (safe for kids) and has snarled “Duluth paradigm.”

Safe to say, this man of Plasticine has been kneaded well in the sweet pink hands of someone waving a cheque book at him with a “Smoochy coochy coo.” Oh how well this man sleeps at night (and day), his dreams intruded for a moment as he switches off the alarm clock.

Although you are generally brilliant Dr.F, it seems you flubbed and forgot feminista Cordelia Fine.

Tawil

What an extraordinary hateful screed by Flynn, launched with full support by the government.

This is one of you best articles Greg – you shine a light on each bigoted comment and demolish it incisively, surgeon-like. For me the entire design if his screed can be summed up in one word:

Shaming

My question is, and has always been, what motivates these people- the Floods, Kimmels, Flynns and Fischers of this world?? To say they are purely trying to get sex or status bestowed on them has always seemed inadequate to me, even if those outcomes are fringe benefits. Neither is ‘indoctrination of dummies’ buyable, because these men appear to have reasonable IQs. No, there is something more. But what??

Its obvious these few males hate all men. Hence the motivation for the degree of denigration and shaming, both designed to inflict maximum damage rather than help in any way. Are these males raised by violent feminists and have absorbed the disease? Were thier fathers one of the minority of males who were actually violent, whom they must get revenge on by attacking all males? Were they molested by male pedophiles? Were they mercilessly bullied by boys at school because they were difficult or weird (Flood admitted it was the case for himself, and claimed it as his primary motivation)? Do they have some kind of gender identity confusion leading them to hate thier own maleness like Australia’s leading male feminist Raewyn Connell (who after years of hating on males had a sex change… his name was formerly Robert William Connell)? What’s the psychology in which this mould grows?

I guess its any/all of those things, but bottom line is the degree of hatred seems hardwired into these guys from childhood, it doesn’t appear to be something they merely picked up as adults for the sake of fringe benefits. The shame is that the government sponsors the ‘work’ of these psychological basket-cases to the tune of billions.

Raven01

It is the sexual version of “white guilt” that you see in Liberal circles far too often.

It is a bullshit ideology of self-flagellation over perceived wrongs done by a group which you may involuntarily be a member.

Tawil

“White guilt” is a good explanation for their behaviour. Many non-whites behave the same…. so maybe its a more universally implanted male guilt appearing in extremis in the crusades of these feminist males? Maybe hen-pecked to death by thier mothers to the point where they too grew a beak, one they use to peck their brothers into submission. Mommy’s proxy pecker, daily digging his beak into men like the eagle of Zeus tearing daily at the liver of Prometheus.

Forever shall the intolerable present grind you down
And he who will release you is not yet born
Such fruit you reap for your man-loving ways.
And therefore you must guard this joyless rock —
No rest, no sleep, no moment’s respite.
Groans shall your speech be, lamentation your only words.

Evermore the burden of your present ill shall wear you out;
for your deliverer is not yet born.

Such is the prize you have gained for your championing of man.
For, god though you are, you did not fear the wrath of the gods,
but you bestowed honors upon mortal creatures beyond their due.

Therefore on this joyless rock you must stand sentinel, erect,
sleepless, your knee unbent. And many a groan and unavailing
lament you shall utter; for the heart of Zeus is hard,
and everyone is harsh whose power is new.

The dark-winged hound of Zeus will come, the savage eagle,
An uninvited banqueter, and all day long
Will rip your flesh in rags, and feast upon your
liver,
Gnawing it black.

http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

The division of males by race is a good way of separating them from seeing their common interests. But it’s starting to lose its effectiveness, I think.

John A

It’s self hatred and guilt. They want to blame their past actions and thoughts onto their manhood. Then they seek absolution by repenting and asking forgiveness for their sins, thinking they are a “mini Jesus” allowing their manhood to die on a cross while self-flagellating.

Hugo Schwyzer is a classic case, he argues that the things he did were normal behaviour for American men and explores other men to follow his example and change. The trouble is that most guys are not like him and haven’t done the things he has. Yet Hugo and his ilk want to project their guilt and self loathing onto the rest of us so we can shoulder some of the blame for them.

Raven01

You have a very good point. There is more than Schwyzer that have had skeletons come out of the closet that show these male feminists to be among the more repugnant people on the planet.
Dr.Phil is quite a douchebag if you take the time to research his relationships with women too. Oprah should have done her homework before pimping his ass to the country.

Kukla

Wait…fathers day still exists? It’ll probably be gone soon.

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

Father’s Day will never go.

It has been repackaged in a great big pink box with a lovely ole’ white ribbon on top.

kiwihelen

Argh! I saw a card for sole mothers on Fathers Day, about being so great that the child didn’t need 2 parents. Grrrr!

Tawil

Why am I not surprised…. soon it will be Father’s-Day-For-Celebrating-Mothers.

I raised two kids as a single fulltime dad, they had no contact with (abusive) mother whatsoever. My daughter used to deliberately piss the teachers off at school because when the class would make Mother’s Day cards my daughter would write “Happy mother’s day dad… because my dad makes the best mum”. – Priceless. I still have those cards.

kiwihelen

I was in Tescoes! Cant be seen to grab them and shred them while swearing and yelling…OTOH, if I paid for them I am sure it would be OK

JinnBottle

I think so too, Kukla, given the trajectory. Except perhaps for some of the very very youngest men on this site, all of us have observed how the Feminist Final Solution for Da Mens Problem is not only constantly steaming full speed, but accelerating.

In the 90s the Fems still had to give lipservice to the “Father – or at least a Father-figure in the home”. Now they are all out of the closet, including the president of the United States, openly going for the Fatherless America goal (“goal” = anagram for “gaol” in this case).

Now this fuck-ass Flynn has been inspired, or paid, to make the “no need for fathers” part of the Final Solution into a formal statement.

Flynn, I wish you no harm, since, obviously, you are such a loser that you your self will fuckup everything you are and do and have in life, and it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

Has anyone else but me noticed the correlation of the number of misandrist articles being posted by these sycophant manginas as the fathers rights movement gathers steam and changes laws/custody arrangements and also the MRM as a whole gaining traction in shining a bright light on cases such as Vladic Filler and Gordon Smith?

It seems to me that the mangina’s articles bashing men and fatherhood increase every time we as a whole (MRM) make some headway into correcting a lopsided misandric system. They are fighting back and in my estimation they are getting scared because we are making progress in disassembling their fallacious view of reality.

We need to be ready to address these manginas every single time they pull their heads out of their asses to come up for air.

Arvy

Not just more numerous, but increasingly extreme if that’s possible. The struggle still ahead will be long and difficult beyond doubt, but the latter aspect of their overwrought response should probably be regarded as encouraging.

Jay

Brilliant article Greg, putting some common sense into a report which is not based on any truths, but rather just reinforcing the feminist dogma lies which most of the population believes. This Flynn guy seems to be yet another example of a feminised submissive mangina.

JinnBottle

Seems to me Mr Canning hit on something with potential value for us in the “women abused by same-sex partners” citing.

A little humor (very little) on my former website: “You know when I first heard in the VAWA of the penalties for perpetrators, I thought they’d gone a little too far….

“But then I thought it over more and, yeah, the way those lesbians slap their girlfriends and wives around…they probably do deserve the 35 years in jail, et al…”

It’s nothing personal, but there’s alot of potential being armed with that particular set of stats, I’ll bet.

Joshua Grooms

I don’t even see how a man can actually write things like this,this shit is mind blowingly unreal.Why is masculinity a bad thing?A woman is praised for being independent and embracing her inner “womyn”, but when a man wants to be masculine, that’s where the line is drawn? Damn, some of this stuff literally scares me.

Bombay

Yes. The only reason I can fathom is some deep psychological issue. Perhaps his Dad dropped him when he was a baby. The combination of being dropped and the subsequent brain damage is the only possible explanation. LOL. It is all his father’s fault!

Joshua Grooms

If anything it just gives me stronger resolve to play the shit out of some football with my son,when i eventually become a father.

Robert St. Estephe

Answer: cultural marxism. The guy is a professional cultural marxist. Watch this video.

It has some weak spots, but overall it is an invaluable introduction. (The topic applies to Australia as well.)

Without understanding cultural marxism, these propaganda efforts by Flynn and tens of thousands of others will go misunderstood by MRAs. There is a method to this madness, a highly developed, long term method, and it will keep working its black magic as long as MRAs fail to pay attention to it.

Know your enemy. (Know them thoroughly).

Tawil

I don’t buy the marxist conspiracy theory as an explanation for feminist propaganda generated by people like Flynn. In fact i don’t buy most reductionist theories when it comes to explaining feminism.

Gynocentrism is far older than the 20th century, far older than Marxism, and the modern version of gynocentrism draws its power and inspiration from a multitude of sources.

jms5762

There are many ways to package a product and sell it to the weak minded. Its a pandemic mindfuck. That’s why its so fucking scarey. The cognitive dissonance and the forthcoming release of tension rivals the abolition of slavery in the US. Civil war resulted. Anders Breivik tried to light the powderkeg and failed.

DerickBurton

David Flynn really hates his sex. It’s incredible and horrifying to watch. To think that these people are paid to concoct this poison with taxes raised on the broken backs of the very men they hate and seek to destroy is chilling.

Tawil

There was a Father’s Day article in the Sunday Mail, Queensland’s main newspaper, which emphasised that fathers are the main cause of mental illness in this world:

“Gradually, though, scientists are discovering how much fathers matter. At the University of Connecticut’s Centre for the Study of Interpersonal Acceptance and Rejection, director Ronald Rohner and his team recently reviewed decades of international research on parental acceptance and rejection. What emerged was that in many cases, fathers were more influential on their kids’ development than mothers… behavioural problems, delinquency, depression, substance abuse and general mental health are more closely aligned to dad’s rejection [of the child] than mum’s.”

No, not mothers forstering mental illness in children…. the fathers are more responsible for it by thier rejecting ways. Happy Father’s Day anyway.

Rad

Do you guys really say, “drink-drivers” down under?

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

Yes mate. We do.

Why, what do you lot say, “eat-drivers” or somethin’?

andybob

It’s short for “drink and drive” as in, “Don’t drink and drive”. This was how the first campaigns were worded and the abbreviation “drink drivers’ just sort of stuck.

I have never even considered there may be anything wrong with it, until you just pointed it out. Are you insinuating that Aussie isn’t the most eloquentest form of English? How dare you, sir?

Turbo

Well done Greg.

The White Ribbon Foundation is an Extremist Hate group, and should be treated as such.

Robert St. Estephe

And from the USA, we celebrate half a century of “women’s advances.” The evil days of the nuclear family (“the 50s”) are behind us:

“40 Signs That We Have Seriously Messed Up The Next Generation Of Americans”

Off topic the NUS blog announces :
SORRY EVERYONE. THANKS TO SOME SERIOUSLY UNFUN TROLLING COMMENTS ARE NOT ALLOWED AT THE MOMENT. WE’LL HAVE THEM UP IN FUTURE.

Dah? it not as thought they could not moderate the commments , indeed they did moderate out at least one of mine,

Better still make the site members only screen the members and bitch away till their little feminist hearts are content ( an impossibility of course)

scatmaster

Echo chambering at its finest.

Sasha

They modded out two of mine. Hate-filled bigots the lot of ’em.

blueface

Great article, Greg, and on the money as usual.

Flynn’s work is incredible doublespeak. I also saw the “Baby makes 3″ video he did. Incredible.

“If I just smile as I speak and keep making the appropriate eyebrow gestures to make me look non-threatening, agreeable and caring and whatever else is politically correct then maybe, just maybe, you won’t notice that I’m actually talking shit.”

Your phrase “the nature being nurtured out of children” is exactly what is being asked by Flynn.

The White Ribbon campaign is an abomination.

Gamerp4

“fatherhood is socially constructed, not biologically determined”

So i being a father is actually socially constructed, Why i feel that we as human beings are getting dumber than animals day by day. So my efforts are actually just not awarded with fatherhood even if i want and need to be a part of my child’s life, and my only reason is i am just a sperm donator and the rest is just socially constructed.

DEAR GOD please cleanse this world of all the stupid and idiots because not only they are depressing to endure but they are not a productive part of this world either.

Arvy

I’m afraid that, if your wish were granted, the global depopulation would be tremendous. On the other hand, …

Sasha

I loathe twunts like David Flynn more than I can say. The damage they do to children and families is incalculable. I wonder what his father thinks?

Here’s a more enlightened insight into the historic ‘role of fathers’ from the recent BBC series ‘The Myth of the Tyrannical Father':

Thanks for the link, Sasha.
I know that my husband teaches my son things and understands him in a way that I can’t, and the value of these things can’t be measured.

Anonymous

“The widespread belief among men, that we do make a unique contribution to parenting, says a lot about us, our sense of entitlement, and our desire to feel ‘important.”

“Perhaps it is a reaction to the unique contribution that mothers are able to make to children – through pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding – that we feel impelled to demand our own comparable uniqueness.”

Holly ffing… did this sick piece of crap basically just say, that all men are useless pieces of shit, but the men that acknowledge they’re useless, pieces of shit and praise 3.5 billion women as awesome saintly angels and utterly unique, are merely that, while the men that consider themselves human beings with rights and value as human beings are on top of useless, pieces of shit also vile, evil, abusing assholes?

resurgence

As men we are programmed to not shed our responsibilities towards our children, wife, parents, family, society, nation. The governments around the globe know that men with out responsibilities will have a domino effect on a lot of policies that are currently enforced by them. Lets take a hypothetical situation when men just decide to not take any responsibility in child raising. Calculate the total amount of time, energy and resources saved by men. The figures will be staggering. men why do you want to have kids?

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Mental Health Corner

Drugs that treat ADHD are a great, safe remedy available to help hyperactive children. That is the word from esteemed doctors. That may be true. Or it could be a paid pitch from corrupt doctors like we got from the tobacco companies.