Just when you thought the progressives could not get any dumber, they do! Walker will run his ads, the recall movement will get bogged down in lawsuits and the proponents of the recall will look like the thuggish schmucks that they are. Are all these guys secret republican operatives? What else can account for such apparent stupidity?

Having duplicate signatures is understandable, especially if people are concerned about stolen or destroyed petitions. However, having an accurate count of eligible signatures is the whole point of the exercise.

Delicious pears from Harry and David, or some bread from Zingermans? English Muffins from Wolfermans?

As to catching duplicate names -- how would that be done, practically speaking? You could enter the names into a database, but how would the database know, for example, that Madison J. Man and Mad J. Man -- who live at the same address -- are in reality the same person? My understanding of the petitions -- not having seen one myself -- is that they "just" include name and address.

Hilarious. The law firm bringing a suit against the state's elections board advised the legislature on how to write the very law it is suing over. And the attorney leading the case represented Justice Gableman in 2008 over an ethics charge. These clowns cannot be gone soon enough.

La Crosse County GOP chairman Bill Feehan said he doesn't support recalling Vinehout because he opposes recalls as election do-overs."I think this is a misuse of the recall process," Feehan said. "I don't think we should fight recalls with recalls."

Professor Jacobson said: “Anti-recall forces will have to establish their own database and run checks for duplicates, in other words, do the government’s work for it.”

That is precisely what True the Vote in Houston did prior to the 2010 mid-term elections http://www.truethevote.org/

With 30 donated computers and hundreds of thousands of hours by volunteers, True the Vote compiled, sorted and reported the irregularities to Leo Vasquez, the voter registrar.

“Most of the findings focused on a group called Houston Votes, a voter registration group headed by Sean Caddle, who also worked for the Service Employees International Union before coming to Houston. Among the findings were that only 1,793 of the 25,000 registrations the group submitted appeared to be valid.

The other registrations included one of a woman who registered six times in the same day; registrations of non-citizens; so many applications from one Houston Voters collector in one day that it was deemed to be beyond human capability; and 1,597 registrations that named the same person multiple times, often with different signatures.”

The Harris voter registrar, Leo Vasquez,reported the fraud to the District Attorney. “The outcome of the efforts grew in importance the day after Vasquez made his announcement. On the morning of Aug. 27, a three-alarm fire destroyed almost all of Harris County’s voting machines, throwing the upcoming Nov. 2 election into turmoil. While the cause wasn’t determined, the $40 million blaze, according to press reports, means election officials will be focused on creating a whole new voting system in six weeks.

If some enterprising volunteers will come together, access the recall petitions (which are public records), enter the data in an excel spread sheet, sort and cross check names and addresses, Wisconsin has a shot at shining the bright, disinfecting light of day to the validity of the signatures.

Perhaps, that effort could be “crowd-sourced”, as the New York Times called for crowd-sourcing to comb through Sarah Palin’s e-mails.

Maybe before folks complain about the ability of people to legally sign more than one petition, the right would do better by policing themselves from giving others the incentive to sign more than one petition. With the reported hijinks (or threats of hijinks) around the state, some may want to sign more than once to make sure that their signature is counted once.

BTW, it’s always been the responsibility of the candidate (R, D, I or whatever) to challenge the signatures of their opponent, whether it is for a recall or for nomination papers. There’s nothing new here.

There are other issues that will also need to be addressed. For example, what if someone were to sign my name and address to a recall petition. I have no intention of signing a petition asking to recall either Governor Walker or Lieutenant Governor Kleefisch. Will there be any database where I could determine whether my name/address/signature was fraudulently entered on a recall petition? Then, if I were to find that this happened, is there any mechanism for me to be able to contact the GAB to insure that my fraudulently entered information is not counted as a signature towards the recall total? Likewise, only my wife and I reside at our address. What if other names were fraudulently listed as signers from our address? Would there be any way to determine this and report it?

Will there be any database where I could determine whether my name/address/signature was fraudulently entered on a recall petition? Then, if I were to find that this happened, is there any mechanism for me to be able to contact the GAB to insure that my fraudulently entered information is not counted as a signature towards the recall total?

If the GOP actually wanted to play hijinks, they would challenge each and every signature. The recall would then go forward sometime in 2020.

"And yes, how do we find out if our neighbors for example fraudulently signed our names and listed our addresses?"

Doesn't matter, 'we must count all the votes'. Vote early, vote often. Isn't that how it works?

It is hilarious to watch the projectionists flail. Fen's illustration of liberal justification nails it.

A sad joke, this recall effort, courtesy of democrats. This is what their 'democracy' looks like - it really boils down to a 'grievocracy' doesn't it...funny, it isn't all that long ago we were all marveling at the courageous fleebaggers...

Looking at the recall law, it's up to a challenger of the recall signatures to prove they are incorrect, and it has to be done in ten days. The GOP should hire a firm to enter the names into a database. OCR could be used to do this quickly. Once the names/addresses are in the data base it would be easy to cross reference for duplicates.

You would then have to check other databases that would indicate whether the person is actually a Wisconsin resident, and is a valid voter. That would be a little more difficult. I'm sure there are voter registrations etc, that could be used.

You can't simply challenge every signature it seems (I'm no lawyer, is there one in this blog?) but you have to provide evidence.

Even if there still remains enough sigs after this effort, it could be good material to use in the election to the extent that these ashats will go to recall Walker.

And yes, how do we find out if our neighbors for example fraudulently signed our names and listed our addresses?

After people enter the data and combine it all, someone normalizes it (looks for duplicates and probable duplicates) and then the GOP or somebody who cares posts it as either a pdf or Excel worksheet online, publicizes the link, and asks for people to check and see if their names or addresses were used fraudulently. People check the website, search for their name, search for their address, and notify the contact person of the fraudulent registration.

I would challenge illegible signatures as well.

I'm in KC but I would be willing to help with the normalization. (I can't do data entry due to health conditions.)

Then explain it wise one. Fen certainly cannotThat law firms are BUSINESSES and can act as Ronin? As long as the cheque is good, we’ll take the case? So the fact that a firm supported “A” one day, does not preclude them from supporting “Not-A” the next? Just because they were involved in an issue on one side doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t take the other side? In fact, having been involved on one side means they have an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of their putative opponents, meaning they can charge a premium for their services. This isn’t to complex a set of concepts is it?

Class Factotem: AC Wharton has done an outstanding job for all Memphians--He attends gatherings of our varied community and IMO does a great job for his constituents. A genuinely good and decent man--regretably he has to work with the city council the only prerequisites for that position appear to be being under indictment or have served hard time.

I realize this is highly unscientific, but if you go to the comments sections of the Wisc State Journal or the Milwaukee JS, you realize that there are an a crazy number of....crazies, living in Wisconsin.

Can anyone tell me what's with the bizarre conspiracy theories that dominate the minds of Democrats?

Every story leads into comments about how there is a secret plan to control the state and still money.

Mad Man--after a very mild fall it turned into winter this weekend--there was a bit of snow at the first of the week, but it didnt stick--any hint of snow tends to paralyze Memphis, but we appear to have survived--its now a beautiful late all day with temps in the mid 50s

So the fact that a firm supported “A” one day, does not preclude them from supporting “Not-A” the next? Just because they were involved in an issue on one side doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t take the other side?

They're not taking " the other side". They [hired by Republicans] are suing the state over the SAME law they helped draft [which Republicans signed into law]. The law states the new maps cannot be used until the fall 2012 election. So they want a do-over, presumably because they don't feel good about their prospects.

Hell of a lot of work to scan and check all of those names and signatures quickly, but it has the positive by-product of giving you a definitive database with which to clean your mailing list of potential Walker supporters/anti-recall votes.

I am sure that every locale has its boosters, but I moved to memphis in 2007--it is a dynamic vibrant community. We even have a kosher BBQ sponsored by our large orthodox Jewish community. And we have one of the best symphony orchestras in the country under the leadership of Maestra Mai Ann Chin--I have enjoyed my time in Memphis, and with AC Wharton at the helm I believe he will turn this city around. I do love it here (except for Memphis drivers during bad weather)

Roger J, my husband and I took a trip to Memphis last spring to see my friends there. For two months before the trip, we planned our eating strategy. We started at The Cupboard, hit the BBQ Shop, went to El Mezcal, and returned to The Cupboard. Oh - and the Waffle Shop at Calvary Episcopal.

RogerJ: I grew up in Memphis and when I was there, long ago, I believe there were more BBQ places than there were churches and there were more churches than gas stations. You have fallen apart as a society since then with fewer BBQ joints but can be forgiven because the quality of the offering remains. Great Jewish community there, really outstanding. I went to school with the Jews, or they with me, at CBHS.

Class Factotum--you did well--my lady friend and I live in East Memphis and are in walking distance of 30 great restaurants--property is relatively in expensive; the U of Memphis has a great music program, most of the concert are free--and then we have the Levitt Shell which has 50 free concert a year (may-june and sep-oct)

and Easy Way is down the street from me.

I love it here. It is a great music center, from Blues on the Bluff, Beale Street and every thing in between. And great restaurants including the BBQ but lots of great ethinic restaurants.

Can anyone tell me what's with the bizarre conspiracy theories that dominate the minds of Democrats?

Sure. They need an Emanuel Goldstein. If he doesn't exist, they'll create him. Democrats are at least self-aware enough to recognize they don't live up to their own standards. So the bizarre conspiracy theories help them pretend they are still better humans than those (imaginary) other guys.

We in Memphis have a vibrant arts community--inexpensive for artists to live and work--our restaurants are excellent, and according to my lady, thats so because young chefs can run their own restaurants without having to be sous chefs for major restaurants in larger cities.

Any commentary about checking the validity of the recall petitions signatures?

"Magney noted the GAB will flag duplicate signatures in the event they easily discover them. However, the GAB will not be entering the hand-written information into a searchable database to check for duplicates. The recall committee and the incumbent targeted for recall are the ones primarily responsible for catching the extra signatures, he said."

Fen: You have nailed it. In addition to the fabricated villian(s), the Left is the best at projecting their own vile tactics onto their opposition. Is their an Alinsky rule for that?

Emmanuel Goldstein is a character in George Orwell's classic dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. He is the number one enemy of the people according to Big Brother and the Party, who heads a mysterious and possibly fictitious anti-party organization called The Brotherhood. Despite being a key part of the story, he is only actually seen and heard on telescreen, and may in fact be nothing more than a useful propaganda fabrication of the Ministry of Truth.

"garage mahal said...Hilarious. The law firm bringing a suit against the state's elections board advised the legislature on how to write the very law it is suing over. And the attorney leading the case represented Justice Gableman in 2008 over an ethics charge. These clowns cannot be gone soon enough."

@Roger, I really enjoy the Lorraine Motel -- whatever Museum it's been transformed into. Very very interesting. And yes, the food is good. I've also been to a baseball game downtown -- very nice stadium. Even saw Pau Gasol play back before he was traded (he was the only good player on the team, as I recall).

Professor--as Madison Mentioned, is there a protocal among bloggers about sending traffice to each other's blogs? Assume it unstated if there is but that doesnt obviate informal understandings--Obviously Professor Reynold's blog seems to the linch pin. Professor Jacobson's blog I enjoy but he is a bit more focused on the legal/political side; your blog is much more eclectic--so are there formal understandings about blog references? something like professional courtesy?

So, who in Wisconsin is going to lead the effort to make these recall petitions a matter of public record and smoke out the fraud as True the Vote did in Harris County/Houston? Wasn't "transparency" the clarion call of the 2008 election?

If some enterprising volunteers will come together, access the recall petitions (which are public records), enter the data in an excel spread sheet, sort and cross check names and addresses, Wisconsin has a shot at shining the bright, disinfecting light of day to the validity of the signatures.

Perhaps, that effort could be “crowd-sourced”, as the New York Times called for crowd-sourcing to comb through Sarah Palin’s e-mails.

Here’s the official Harris County Briefing Report dated August 24, 2010, with photocopies of some the actual fraudulent voter registrations.

Republicans are suing the state over the same maps they enacted into law. The same law firm that advised them is bringing the suit against the state. That the state already got billed $400,000 for."

If you are talking about the suit the GOP filed today regarding using the new districts for the recall...what's your beef?

If so your premise is false. The suit has nothing to do with the maps that were drawn under the legislation they advised on, they simply want new the redistricting maps used for the recall. The Dems want the old maps used.

Coincidentally, the day after the Registrar announced he was turning the evidence over to the DA, all Harris County voting machines were destroyed in a fire.

"On the morning of Aug. 27, a three-alarm fire destroyed almost all of Harris County’s voting machines, throwing the upcoming Nov. 2 election into turmoil. While the cause wasn’t determined, the $40 million blaze, according to press reports, means election officials will be focused on creating a whole new voting system in six weeks."

@roger There's no protocol. I just link to what interests me, go back to sites that have been interesting in the past, and click through from Site Meter to sites that have sent me traffic. A good way to get me to check out your blog and try to find something to link is to link to something of mine. It's all about making these connections.

And when the governments list, the Democrat list, and the Republican list do not match, what then? I suggest a pay-per-view steel cage death match a la wrestling. Make some money off that crazed whorehouse you badgers call politics.

The problem with the system we have today is one side plays with no rules whatsoever. Just win baby! The other side is so odious that the ends justify the means.

The opposition is invested in doing things the "right way". They can't admit the system is broken, because doing things the right way is the system.

If you read this post and agree that the other side is cheating then look again I never mentioned which side is which, and THAT is the problem.

The lack of trust in our fellow citizens that is driven by the media is tearing this country apart.

I don't like Obama. Not because he's black, or a Democrat, or even a Socialist. He's not even anti-American. He is just ineffectual. His economic policies fail in the real world. His enviromental policies are childish in their vision. And his leadership is non-existant.

How any Liberal can be happy with him is beyond me. He had a supermajority in the congress, and still could only pass a half-assed health care bill.

Every other thing he has accomplished has been by Presidential fiat, to be overturned with a new president.

When Walker signed the two redistricting bills, they became law. They also changed state law last August that required local governments to draw their ward lines first, because they were so scared shitless of recalls and needed to ram the gerrymandering bills through. So I'm afraid the only one failing here is you.

FTA: “While it is not illegal to sign more than once, we do not suggest people sign a second time unless they have good reason to believe the first petition they signed was somehow fraudulent,” Reid Magney, GAB Spokesman.

I cannot fathom how a dedicated and honorable public servant would ever issue that weasel-worded quote, except for to provide cover for every progressive in Dane and Milwaukee counties.

What he should have said: Don't do it! Signing a petition twice destroys public confidence in the integrity of our elections. It is your obligation as a registered voter to honorably follow our election rules, to preserve public confidence in the legitimacy of our government, that secures the rights of We the People.

It's out in the open now: progressive ends justify any behavior. Any behavior.

So you've got this list. With personal details of where you live. You name isn't just eligibly scribbled. You've also got to PRINT IT. And, add your zip code. What if you're asked for your phone number?

Do you know what a 300,000 people list is WORTH?

Gone are the days that you could win much by generating "publicity" the old fashioned way. By news reports.

Don't live anywhere near Wisconsin. There's not much difference between Pubs and Dems, they are all interested only in taking the people's money and giving it to their friends, which is how they define the public good.

Just pretty much convinced that our governments are completely corrupted. And the agencies, they are so badly led that they have abandoned their missions, and work only for their survival and enrichment.

And if a person compares two recent popular public movements, it's clear only one is law-abiding, and respects the obligations of citizenship and neighborliness.

Not a troll. Just say what I gotta say about something, and then get off the stage and leave it to others to chew the fat. If you want a conversation, convince me I overlooked something, don't ad hom me.

Re Beale Street: a young friend of mine (ok, not so young but a lot younger than I am) plays there frequently with his current band. He and a couple of his high-school buddies first went to Nashville as an Elvis Tribute Band, and played there for quite a while. They're no longer together, but all three are still in Memphis and/or Nashville doing basically rockabilly stuff. Very fun.

Even if the recall petition has enough signatures, fake or real, there will still have to be an election. The Democrats will have to nominate someone. That process should be entertaining. Then, when people actually have to cast a vote, they'll have to show ID and be registered. Absentee ballots will be suspect as usual.

When Walker signed the two redistricting bills, they became law. They also changed state law last August that required local governments to draw their ward lines first, because they were so scared shitless of recalls and needed to ram the gerrymandering bills through. So I'm afraid the only one failing here is you."

I was speaking of the legislation pending to change the rules for recalls of Senators. That legislation has moved the Democrats to file suit, and the GOP has responded in kind.

BTW, this is the same kinda deal that we saw with Gore/Bush...the Democrats sued over the ballots that they approved. 'm guessing you had no problem with that.

But your earlier premise is not factual...the GOP is not saying that the old districts were unconstitutional prior to 2012, but that they are NOW. Redistricting is a constitutional requirement both at the state and federal level. I do see their argument. The new district maps are now being used for representation, but not for an upcoming recall vote?

What I don't buy is this bullshit:

“How is it fair that a municipality can vote in a recall election that didn’t have the opportunity to vote in the general election in the first place?” Erpenbach said. “You are essentially treating these like general elections, not recall elections.”

If Feingold did end up running after clearly stating he would not, I would lose all respect for the guy.

His sponsorship of the un-Constitutional McCain-Feingold "Incumbent Protection" Act (BCRA) soured me on him substantially. And the fact that he's owned lock, stock, and barrel by the teachers unions. From OpenSecrets:

Industry FavoriteRuss Feingold is a top recipient from the following industries for the 2005 - 2010 election cycle:

This is criminally wrong, but stupid. The opponents will do a much tougher job vetting the signatures than the "progressive" POS La Folette. And if they need help setting up the databases to do the checks, they should shoot me an email. I normally charge a lot for such work, but for such a good cause, I'll do it for free.

Database 1: List of all registered voters, with names and addresses.

Database 2: List of validated signatures.

Database 3: List of duplicates, and the sheets they came from.

Database 4: List of signatures / addresses that do not match the registered voter DB, and the sheets they came from.

Process: Get a signature, run the name and address through database 1. If it doesn't match, add it to DB 4. If it does, check to see if it's already in DB 2. If it is, add it to DB 3. If not, add it to DB 2.

You can set the whole system up on pretty much any laptop bought in the last year or two. Every night, you have all the laptops connect to a central system that does another sweep through DB 2 finding more duplicates, every morning you have all the laptops connect and download the latest versions of DBs 1 and 2.

Bonus: the proponents get hit with the burden of proof on every signature where sloppy writing or sloppy data entry by La Folette's temps entered the wrong information. And when they clean up those problems, a good quarter of the time it will probably turn out to be someone who's already in the DB, so they will have wasted their time validating a duplicate. :-)

Look, I'd like to see the recall take place, because I think Walker will crush his opponent (even Russ), and I think it would do a lot of good for Walker to have two months where he gets to point out all the benefits of the law, and all the harms the PEUs were doing that they no longer get to do. So I want the recall to happen.

But that doesn't mean I think we should reward criminal behavior. And that's what La Folette is supporting, and that's what the recall supporters are encouraging.

Nah. Even with millions in property taxes we never get a second look because we don't employee enough people.

Government is incentivizing us to fire our highly paid/fully benefitted employees and re-hire twice the number of low wage staffers, right? Basically, don't get me started on economic development incentives!

The opponents could certainly set up their databases to be publicly accessible (this, however, would require a higher powered computer setup. However, GoDaddy offers those, and for the month or two that it would be needed you're looking at a total cost (including domain registration) of under $200).

The searches I would have that system do:

1: Search valid signatures by name2: Search valid signatures by address3: List of addresses with the most signatures (could be used for data mining looking for fraudulent voter registrations).4: 1, 2 & 3 for Duplicates and for invalid signatures, with a count of how many time the signatures was found

"Calypso Facto said...Government is incentivizing us to fire our highly paid/fully benefitted employees and re-hire twice the number of low wage staffers, right? Basically, don't get me started on economic development incentives!"

Would love to hear the details of this. What government. What program?

CG: Probably a topic for lengthy discussion elsewhere, but let's start with city/regional/state economic development groups so focused on number of employees that they lose sight of capital investment or quality of the jobs. Also the favored treatment of new or from-out-of-state businesses over established in-state firms. Some of our competitors have been given money for being "new" that we're not entitled to. And yes, having built 2 new major projects in the past 2 years and in the middle of a 3rd, this is from my personal experience, not Occupy Madison literature.

I'm not opposed to the Rayovac/Spectrum forgivable loan in specific as much as I think the whole system stinks, but I realize that unfortunately that's how the game is played right now.

Calypso Facto said...CG: Probably a topic for lengthy discussion elsewhere, but let's start with city/regional/state economic development groups so focused on number of employees that they lose sight of capital investment or quality of the jobs. Also the favored treatment of new or from-out-of-state businesses over established in-state firms. Some of our competitors have been given money for being "new" that we're not entitled to. And yes, having built 2 new major projects in the past 2 years and in the middle of a 3rd, this is from my personal experience, not Occupy Madison literature.

I'm not opposed to the Rayovac/Spectrum forgivable loan in specific as much as I think the whole system stinks, but I realize that unfortunately that's how the game is played right now.

12/1/11 12:09 PM"

In general I'm in agreement, there will always be winners and losers in government programs. It is however how the game is played. At least we are playing too now. Look at the jobs we lost with Harley, Briggs, etc.