Umbriel Levenque: I was in the previous session and we had a good discussion about assumptionsWol Euler: that sounds like a good starting point. I haven't read the log yet, too busy working.Faenik: could beSolobill Laville: me tooUmbriel Levenque: don't think it's up yetWol Euler: ah, that might be another reason.Umbriel Levenque: some pointed out that assumptions are needed to make decisions in timely mannerWol Euler: "heuristics"Umbriel Levenque: I haven't really thought about assumptions that way beforeWol Euler: rules-of-thumb: if rainy then umbrellaSolobill Laville: Did it come up that there are different levels/types of assumptions?Wol Euler: mm?Solobill Laville: in the previous session I mean?Umbriel Levenque: yes, different assumptions... ie about people. how one needs to make assumptions (unavoidable in a way) in order to understand othersWol Euler: call it "patterns", perhaps: assumptions is emotionally (negatively) loadedSolobill Laville: that is true, WolUmbriel Levenque: how one needs to 'wear' these assumptions lightly so that they can be adjusted as one goes alongUmbriel Levenque: yes I agreeSolobill Laville: Or perhaps sends up a warning flagFaenik: indeed?Umbriel Levenque: though... what is the difference between them in that case?Solobill Laville: Maybe a key point is the importance of being aware of the cost of an assumption being wrongSolobill Laville: i.e. not so big if it doesn't rain vs. congratulating a woman on being "pregnant" when she isn't...;)Wol Euler: perhaps only a difference of perception. But that is a huge difference, e.g. between christian sects.

Wol Euler: onigokkoSolobill Laville smilesSolobill Laville: uh oh, there she goesWol Euler: awwww, buncha spoilsports.Wol Euler: stopUmbriel Levenque: yepQuilty Bookmite: Sorry. I wasn't tailed up.Solobill Laville: me neitherWol Euler: unreadiness is no excuse :-/Solobill Laville: I assumed she would do that (see how I stay on topic!)Quilty Bookmite: onigokkoFaenik: ah :)Geo Netizen: Was there meaning to the exhibition?Quilty Bookmite: stopUmbriel Levenque: :-)Quilty Bookmite: *sulks*Quilty Bookmite: None at all, I think.Solobill Laville: I think the meaning is "Play" :)Wol Euler: just wear it :-) say "onigokko" to start and "stop" to, well, stop.Geo Netizen: Of course .... I should have knownQuilty Bookmite: I assumed that Wol would still have hers switched on.Wol Euler: the meaning is probably "I had two glasses of beer and one of Schnapps on top of four hours' sleep"Solobill Laville nods appreciatively

And Unbriel with Herculean efforts brings us back once more...

Umbriel Levenque: do we need to be aware of 'cost of assumptions' or that they are assumptions?Wol Euler coughs and adjusts her facial expresssion.Umbriel Levenque: :-)Solobill Laville: awareness is always goodQuilty Bookmite: We make assumptions all the time. It's difficult to function without them.Solobill Laville: but I'd argue moreso on the potential negative outcome of the assumption being wrongSolobill Laville thinks Wol's expression looks fairly convincingUmbriel Levenque: your assumptions include patterns or are they different things? sorry I'm losing the track a bit hereQuilty Bookmite: Maybe we don't always voice those assumptions. That's what can get us into trouble.Geo Netizen: But I suggest that without some simplifying assumptions … we’d be paralyzed by complexity.Umbriel Levenque: easy to put on an expression in SL while downing beer in RLSolobill Laville: Umbriel, to me, assumptions are assumptions, but they are on a scale of relative impactQuilty Bookmite: Exactly Geo.Wol Euler: an assumption is a prediction based on an observed pattern. "Fred always eats salad, I won't make steak for the group"Umbriel Levenque: yes QuiltySolobill Laville nodsUmbriel Levenque: I find it uncomfortable when I have to 'voice' assumptionsGeo Netizen: Yes even coming up with a menu could be impossible without some assumptions.Wol Euler smilesQuilty Bookmite: So is it better to ask a woman if she is pregnant or is that just as bad as assuming she is?Solobill Laville: defining even basic words requires assumptions at some levelGeo Netizen: Oooo … risky business :)Wol Euler: at some level we _need_ assumptions, we cannot question everything. "Is this still the gas pedal? How do I now that it is still the gas pedal -- just because it was so yesterday"Quilty Bookmite: Maybe better to keep mum.Solobill Laville: To quote Dave Barry, "Never congratulate a woman on being pregnant unless you actually see a baby coming out of her at that very moment."Geo Netizen: We cannot wait to act until we have *all* the factsFaenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.Umbriel Levenque: :-)Geo Netizen: At least our ancestors could not afford that luxuryQuilty Bookmite: Our ancestors were probably less sensitive.Geo Netizen: Maybe .... orWol Euler: ... but they faced problems that we do not.Wol Euler: we can go to the store and trust that everything there is edible,Solobill Laville: They may not have had as much luxury to question assumptions eitherSolobill Laville won't assume the food is edible where he ate lunch TuesdayUmbriel Levenque: :-)Wol Euler: on tuesday it probably was. today is friday.Quilty Bookmite: I guess it's about probability. There is a low probability of buying food that will poison us therefore we assume it's safe.Solobill Laville: ahhhhGeo Netizen: Yes … I would agree that we are in a better position to examine many things.Geo Netizen: But still .... we need to make some assuptions to be functionalGeo Netizen: to be socialFaenik: could beQuilty Bookmite: Yes, otherwise we would have to have all food lab tested before we eat it. :-)Geo Netizen: Precisely Quilty

A visual appeared in my head...

Solobill Laville: I guess I see it as a kind of scaleSolobill Laville: on one side is any one assumptionSolobill Laville: on the other is the weight of its impact if wrongWol Euler: mmhmmQuilty Bookmite: But I don't think we make such calculations all the time.Geo Netizen: We assume restaurant food is safe but ...Geo Netizen: It isn’t always ...Wol Euler nodsGeo Netizen: but the probably that I will be the one to die isGeo Netizen: relatively lowWol Euler: but it's more likely to be safe than eating a handful of berries that you've never seen growing before.Quilty Bookmite: Umbriel mentioned patterns, which I think is relevant. We see patterns in things and assume they will continue in that way.Geo Netizen: The cost of not making that assumption is considered much higherUmbriel Levenque: yes QuiltyGeo Netizen: True, assumptions have the basisUmbriel Levenque: there is cost for not making assumptions?Geo Netizen: Yes ...Wol Euler: effort, delayWol Euler: inconvenienceGeo Netizen: lost opportunitiesQuilty Bookmite: We can hardly function without assumptions.Solobill Laville: TrueQuilty Bookmite: So we've covered that then? :-)Faenik: なるほど^^Geo Netizen: But if we do not allow those assumptions to be questioned … and take the time to reflect …Umbriel Levenque: :-)Wol Euler: hehehehehGeo Netizen: That is when they get us into troubleGeo Netizen: Just to mention the other side:)Geo Netizen: Is Faenik a bot?Umbriel Levenque: well... to be aware of assumptions, one must question them often I supposeUmbriel Levenque: he talks at a random interval GeoSolobill Laville: I think that is a good practice, UmbrielSolobill Laville: Especially about those with large impactUmbriel Levenque: not sure if I do that Solo... I just know I get it wrong almost most of time

Wol recommends a book.

Wol Euler: let me recommend a novel related to questioning assumptions, btw: "The dice man" by Luke Rhinehart.Geo Netizen: It is good for me to be reminded :)Geo Netizen: Thanks WolUmbriel Levenque: thank you Wol. will make a note on my reading listWol Euler: executive summary: He creates a new "religion" of not following any practice or habit or assumption, but letting his every action be determined ty tossing dice.Wol Euler: quite amusing, and thought-provoking too.Umbriel Levenque: sounds itSolobill Laville: Sounds like a reality showWol Euler: hehehehGeo Netizen: I’d think that system would quickly end in deathSolobill Laville: Depends on how the "actions" are determined, I would guessWol Euler: the novel ends pretty abruptly, yes.Solobill Laville: oh, there you go!Solobill Laville: Geez, thanks, Wol, now I don't have to read it ;)Wol Euler: pah.Umbriel Levenque: :-)Wol Euler: I didn't give away any more than you wouldn't have learned on page 4.Solobill Laville: hehe

Here I decided to ask Wol about a log I had just read between her and Storm...but things quickly get crazy!

Solobill Laville: you know, it is so interesting to how folks communicate one on one versus in a larger PaB groupIsen Enzo: yesWol Euler: mmhmm, very true.Solobill Laville: just like RL, methinksIsen Enzo: one on one is the way to go..Isen Enzo: methinksWol Euler: easier than RL in some ways, Cal and Maxine talked about that recentlyIsen Enzo: dokusan!Wol Euler: mm?Solobill Laville: true, that IsenSolobill Laville: one on oneIsen Enzo: well, I'm gonna take my thousand yard stare..Isen Enzo: and awayWol Euler: ahSolobill Laville: but there is a different dynamic of courseWol Euler: bye isen, enjoy the weekendSolobill Laville: OK, bye Isen, maybe I'll make it laterIsen Enzo: Thanks for the Heart SutraSolobill Laville: ywSolobill Laville: I have many more...Isen Enzo: Bye for nowSolobill Laville: ByeWol Euler: mm?Isen Enzo: BlessingsWol Euler: ahSolobill Laville: ty, to you as well, Isen