Exclusive Interview: Former PM Chretien on 9/11

Mark Kennedy, Postmedia News08.31.2011

Former Canadian Prime Minister, Jean Chretien poses for a photo, after being interviewed in Toronto on August 27, 2011.Jennifer Roberts
/ Postmedia News

Prime Minister Jean Chretien, (2nd left) Governor General Adrienne Clarkson and U.S. Ambassador, Paul Cellucci (right) solemnly make their way down to a memorial ceremony for the victims of the terrorist attack on USA on Parliament Hill in Ottawa in this September 14, 2001 file photo.Julie Oliver
/ Ottawa Citizen

Prime Minister Jean Chretien, Governor General Adrienne Clarkson (left) and US Ambassador, Paul Cellucci (right) bow their heads during a ceremony for the victims of the terrorist attack on U.S.A on Parliament Hill in Ottawa in this September 14, 2001 file photo.Julie Oliver
/ Ottawa Citizen

Former Canadian Prime Minister, Jean Chr»tien is seen being interviewed in Toronto on August 27, 2011.Jennifer Roberts
/ Postmedia News

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OTTAWA — Former prime minister Jean Chretien says the decade after 9/11 has shown that national armies have been replaced by "invisible" soldiers — a change that could see your neighbour counted among the terrorist ranks.

As well, Chretien and some former senior ministers who were part of his Liberal cabinet in 2001 defended their record of seeking a balance between tightening security measures and maintaining civil rights. Moreover, while they said Canada might not face the same dangers as other nations, such as the U.S., too many Canadians are complacent about the continuing threat of terrorism in this country today.

They made the comments in extensive interviews with Postmedia News, as the country approaches the 10th anniversary of the terrorist attack on the United States.

Chretien said in the new era of terrorism, "traditional wars" seem to be disappearing.

"Having a country, having armaments, raising armies to face the other armies, and so on — it looks like the chances of that are less and less," said Chretien. "The difficulty is the next wars . . . will not be countries against countries. It will be fanaticism, extremists and perhaps financed and helped by some countries."

"And this is much more complicated. Because you don't see them. When you have a real war you know how many troops you have and how many generals you have and soldiers and so on. But that, we don't know. They are invisible. They might be your neighbour who is, in fact, a terrorist."

Chretien said this shift has created new challenges for security officials in Canada and throughout the world.

In the months following the 9/11 attacks, the Chretien government implemented a package of measures to tighten aviation security, give police new powers to fight terrorism, and devise better border controls to ensure Canadian exports aren't blocked by the Americans.

Some of those moves were controversial, as people complained about excessive security and an infringement of civil rights.

Chretien said his government worked diligently to fulfil its responsibility to keep Canadians safe, while also protecting their freedom.

"It's always a problem — protection and freedom. It's a delicate balance to achieve. I think that we were quite well balanced."

Chretien, however, acknowledged the anti-terrorism measures drew "some" controversy. "But at the end of the day, nobody felt that we went too far or not far enough, basically."

A decade later, Chretien said it's still a "question of judgment" on how far to extend security measures.

"Perhaps we're a bit complacent, I don't know. You're never sure that you're perfect. But on the other hand, if you go too far on the other side you infringe with the powers of the citizen."

Meanwhile, former foreign affairs minister John Manley said Canadians should adopt a more realistic understanding of the risks they face.

"There still tends to be a degree of complacency or naivete on the part of Canadians that this is really not our problem," said Manley.

In the days following 9/11, Manley was appointed by Chretien to chair the special cabinet committee that devised anti-terrorism measures that autumn.

With the passage of time, too many Canadians have dropped their guard about the threat, said Manley.

He said people live with a false assumption "that this was a long time ago and it was far away in New York and Washington. That it's 'Not us.'"

Manley said the arrests in 2006 of the "Toronto 18" — a motley group of Muslims who plotted to storm Parliament Hill and detonate truck bombs in downtown Toronto — showed a homegrown threat existed.

"I think we continue to be a little bit too complacent," said Manley, who is now president of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives.

"The primary role of government, before everything else, is to enable its people to live in a secure environment. But if you can't have the ability to walk safely or be secure in your home, then we may as well be living in the jungle."

Former justice minister Anne McLellan holds similar concerns.

McLellan was the minister in Chretien's cabinet who, in the fall of 2001, introduced the Anti-Terrorism Act.

"It was incumbent upon us not to scare Canadians but to bring them along and help them understand we had no reason to be smug about any of this," she said. "We absolutely should not live our lives in fear, but as the government of Canada we needed to be doing the things that we thought were reasonable within our constitutional structure to ensure the collective security of Canadians."

Two items in the legislation caused controversy: Police were given broad new powers — and up to three days without having to lay a charge — to arrest and detain people suspected of planning a terrorist attack. As well, people suspected having information about terrorist activity could be compelled to testify before a judge at a secret hearing.

The law required Parliament to re-examine those two powers — known as preventive arrests and investigative hearings — in five years. That sunset clause was part of the Liberals' attempt to strike a balance between public safety and civil rights.

In 2007, with Stephen Harper's Tories in office, the Opposition Liberals and other parties in the minority Parliament banded together to rescind those two contentious powers.

"Fortunately, we have not had an attack on Canadian soil," said McLellan.

"But we've spent billions of dollars. We've upgraded CSIS, the RCMP. We created the Canadian Border Services Agency. We worked more closely with counterparts around the world and sharing information in real time."

McLellan said that while people are more aware that there are obsessive zealots in the world who are prepared to find "creative and destructive ways" to harm others, some Canadians still don't recognize the dangers.

"Somehow, we have been able to distance ourselves psychologically from what happened on 9/11," she said.

McLellan said Canadians like to think of themselves as different from the Americans — as the "boy scouts" and "honest brokers" of the world.

"I think overall, Canadians think we are the good guys and, 'Who would want to hurt us? We are not like the United States.'"

"That psychological distancing, while I understand why people do it — to give themselves a sense of comfort or reassurance — is dangerous in the world in which we live."

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