I did my qualification shoot for my AR State CHL today, so I have up to 120 days to wait now. But I used the CZ 2075D Rami subcompact 9mm. At 7 yards all 15 rounds were on target (6") with a definite chewed out hole about 1-1/2" across about 1/2" low and left. Works for me.

My wife was on the NJROTC shooting team in high school, won several trophies for the team too. Point being she shoots right handed, but is left eye dominant. With handguns it's not nearly as hard to shoot right handed and aim with the left eye.

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The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.- Marcus Aurelius -

My wife was on the NJROTC shooting team in high school, won several trophies for the team too. Point being she shoots right handed, but is left eye dominant. With handguns it's not nearly as hard to shoot right handed and aim with the left eye.

There are always exceptions....For "some" maybe it's not an issue...For MANY, it is! :)

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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." - Ronald Reagan

My wife was on the NJROTC shooting team in high school, won several trophies for the team too. Point being she shoots right handed, but is left eye dominant. With handguns it's not nearly as hard to shoot right handed and aim with the left eye.

There are always exceptions....For "some" maybe it's not an issue...For MANY, it is! :)

I intended to compare it to shooting a rifle, which is danged near impossible. With handguns while it's "easier" to do, I didn't go so far as to say it was easy in itself. Just that it could be done.

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The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject.- Marcus Aurelius -

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... I like the idea of seeing the hammer, not just a little rear dot indicator on some striker fired guns. I am very visual and seeing that hammer is comfort and feedback that I think will serve me well in being a safe shooter...

Maybe look at the H&K USPc. It's a little large for concealed carry, at least with summer clothes, but it's arguably the best combat handgun available.

First, VIBE congrats - not meaning to leave anyone out - good accomplishments as well as your wife - nice!

About Gunbroker, seems like an incredible service - it's fun to watch and if I weren't set on renting the weapons before trying (and I'll settle for shooting a P226 thru P229 for feel and general handling in the 9mm caliber "if" my one gun range, with a good collection doesn't have the M11-a1 - BUT after that, I will certainly take advantage of a great Gunbroker Auction - like the three I have seen this last 2 days.

The M11-A1 lists at $1200 and seeing three sell with no reserve at right at or below $700 is something I'll only pass up so long. If it ends up in my FFL dealer for 2 months, so be it. But it isn't like there is a run or limit on this gun, so such deals will come again and again - I plan on patience cause NJ likes to drag this whole process out as long as it can.

Reading so many comparisons of the Sig P228 to the M11-A1 is an apples and oranges thing. The history of the P228 is cool, having something to a Navy Aviatiors Pistol (since I launch Jets like the F-16, F-18 A/E, the awesome F-35 (Strike Force jet) and to know these men (sorry in 24 years of Civilian Service, never seen a female pilot here at Lakehurst) but to have a very much replica with several major upgrades seems very cool to me. BTW today July 5th) is my 24th anniversary working at Lakehurst, that day was without a doubt the hardest rain I likely have ever seen in my life - instructors in our week long orientation class could not yell over the pounding of rain noises for nearly an hour - literally I think it rained 5 inches that hour - 24 years ago today - okay, it's still the 4th here, but by time most read this it will be the 5th :)

Here is a description for you spec geeks (I like to think of myself as one, generally speaking with anything I research for purchase)

Description:

Sig Sauer M11-A1 9mm

PISTOL, COMPACT, 9MM, M11 Issued to US Naval Aviation and key units in every branch of the Armed Services, the M11 is proud to serve. Upgraded with a stainless steel slide, a Short Reset Trigger and three 15 round flush fit magazines, the M11-A1 variant features the same phosphate coated internals, SIGLITE® night sights and MIL-STD UID label of the standard-issue M11.

Please enjoy the forum, and if it has helped you in any way, we hope that a small donation can be made to support our FULLY member supported forum. You will never see advertisements here, and that is because of the generous members who have made our forum possible. We are in our second decade as a beekeeping forum and all thanks to member support. At the top right of every page is a donations link. Please help if you can.

I did not wade through all the post but go with the revolver. I just purchased a Ruger LCR .38 +p yesterday. You pull the trigger it fires. A pupm shotgun is definitely the home defense weapon for the novice. Loaded with about #4 as larger buckshot may cause problems for others in rooms through walls.

Kel-tec is only an hour away from me. I've got the .32, the .380, and the 9mm. I had the same problems with the .380 at first but the factory fixed it up while I waited at their walk up window. I found that the ammo you use has a lot to do with double feed on the older models too. I always have the 32 in the small of my back and can't tell it's there. Moots, let me know what you want for yours!

John, as Kathy suggests, go to the gun shop and handle everything they've got. You'll soon find where your tastes lie. Don't shy away from walther either...the p22 is the most comfortable grip for me although a small caliber.

Scott

I have and still do holiday a lot in Florida albeit now with the grandchildren but it un-nerves me that you seem to think it normal to walk around with a gun stuck in your trousers! Methinks its time to rethink my holiday destination. To change the subject, just watching 'Queen' in Budepest, on BBC 4 what a loss to rock music that man was! leaves the Beatles/Stones in the shade.

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Whats good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?The Ladies could still teach the Borg a thing or two!....and maybe us too, so long as we don't go too far to the left or right and fall off the edge...

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Yes, I've been throwing the thought to get my Permit to Purchase (NJ Jargon) for getting a weapon. Basically, the permit is to purchase, up to two weapons, the permit is good for three months, but can be extended another 3 months.

No, my victim being a victim of mild road rage did not sway me over the top, it has been coming a long time, well beyond the year I have given it more thought. Remember, this is a big deal to me and the State of NJ who has had background checks, no conceal carry (except in extreme cases) and surely no weapon accessible in an automobile.

That said, here is where you all come in: I want the weapon for home protection, I don't want a revolver, nor a pistol with excessive noise, flash or something overkill for home protection.

I don't need lists of your armory, just a description of your favorite hand-helds and why they are your favorite, especially keeping in mind my wife and I have little to no experience.

After a few dozen Youtube videos, I like a double-action/single action combo, just seems a bit safer before firing and fast re-fire after that. I also like a rubberized or composite material, both the look and the feel, I love the bright colors alignment guides too.

Again, I'm just window shopping for what I might like, I'll be taking coworkers who have a good selection of weapons to the gun-range to get the final feel for what is right for me and her. We will both go obviously.

The wait time is around 2.5-3 months, lots of time to learn what I can and to find out from owner what is their favorite handgun and why. Oh, I also like the conceal carry sized weapons, not the super small, but something that fits nicely in smaller hands but gets the job done if ever needed. I was told by my most savvy gun owner - a great hunter from crossbow, to flint rifle to a miriad of stockpiled weapon that a 38 special is a good all around weapon because of multiple ammo options, size and recoil - all important things.

A BIG consideration too is I'm left-handed. I want a semi-auto and wondering if the shell expeller (sic)is an issue - are there left-handed guns, does it really make that much difference to even consider this point. I just know there are a thousand questions I don't know enough to even ask.

But for reference, I plan on two handguns, on in the living room safely stowed to the rear of a stand besides my comfy chair and the second in the bedroom. Ideally, I want to rounds in the chamber, I want a full clip and just a slide away from being armed and very ready if needed.

As always, I'm a rookie seeking out your knowledge, I know I'll learn some things with this post. A question that bugs me, is why does the Glock barrel seem to point upwards rather than parallel - is that an illusion?

Lastly, keep in mind ammo cost and availability, I expect to spend some time at the range and I know that can get expensive quickly.

For less expense don't buy a gun! start a new trend. :) you know it makes sense.

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Whats good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?The Ladies could still teach the Borg a thing or two!....and maybe us too, so long as we don't go too far to the left or right and fall off the edge...

For less expense don't buy a gun! start a new trend. :) you know it makes sense.

It's not a "new" trend....But it worked so well for Poland in WWII that it only took 3 days to be over run.Did you know that the Pols got their rep for intelligence because they were called "dumb" for attempting to defend against German infantry with pitchforks? Some of the bravest people ever born - just under equipped. But have a nice day.

I appreciate the links - I have watched many of GUNBLAST'S videos, he being a lefty too gives me a bit of insight to how I'd likely maneuver gun features, decocking, mag release, slide lock, feeding mags, etc. I mentioned that I believe I could do very well shooting right handed, we'll see about that of course. I do know I am left eye dominate, so we'll see how all that works out.

I now have a gunshop less than 2 miles from me, I went there but they were just opening, but had a good hour long talk with them, making a friend of your FFL dealer is always a good thing I'm sure.

I have about a 12 mile drive to the nearest range/gun store where they have dozens of handguns to rent, a good enough selection that I can get a taste of what is best for me. I know if I can't test drive the M11-A1 I'm looking hard at, at least I can use a P226 or similar gun to get a bit of the feel.

No, it isn't the same as using the gun I want to get, but similar weight, same maker, similar sights and grips and chambered the same will either give me a thumbs up for the design or a serious thumbs down and eliminate it if nothing seems like what I'm looking for. That's like I think now with a weak dominant arm, do I want a 32 ounce gun that will go nearly 3 pounds loaded? Or go with a polymer that weighs in at half that.

I've been fortunate enough to save and invest enough where the difference of a few hundred bucks is not an issue, so whether a $500 Glock of a $800 Sig, what counts id that I leave knowing the gun I get fits good, is ergonomic in my thinking and something I can live with. Remember, I have 2 handgun permits coming and I don't believe I will be getting additional permits in the future. Only because, I think indoor range has its limits in fun shooting: great practice for handling your weapon under different scenarios, but you really don't have many options here to competitively shoot, running from target to target in competition. So, if not at the range, my guns will be be kept near by, unless I'm dry firing and practice breaking it down for some real good cleaning.

In NJ you have three things you can do with a handgun; clean it, transport it locked in your trunk away from ammo as you drive the SHORTEST ROUTE to the practice range, third is shoot it at the practice range. Of course then you lock it safely away from your ammo again in your trunk, drive the shortest way home and reclean it. OKAY, maybe that is 5 things, but you get the point.

The great link of Chuckhawks is new to me, very handy where nearly anything you could think to ask is covered, thanks Steve.

Please enjoy the forum, and if it has helped you in any way, we hope that a small donation can be made to support our FULLY member supported forum. You will never see advertisements here, and that is because of the generous members who have made our forum possible. We are in our second decade as a beekeeping forum and all thanks to member support. At the top right of every page is a donations link. Please help if you can.

I usually lurk in the bee areas...first time in the Coffee House and was surprised to see a handgun post.

The tool of choice for me is the Glock. I didn't read all six pages, so I apologize if that's been beat to death.

You can't really go wrong with a Sig, but I never did learn to use the DA/SA thing. I really wanted to love the HK USP and owned four over the years. Also had a P220. I never could get used to that long, initial pull followed by a single action pull. Manual of arms is important, particularly in a stressful situation, and Glocks are easy to use, easy to maintain, and all of mine have similar trigger pulls, sight pictures and feel.

I have guns that are a lot more interesting and are a lot more fun to shoot, but for self-defense purposes, I use a Glock.

Well... Update time on getting Fire Arms ID / handgun permits. But first, an interlude from the pathetically ran Air Force.

First, the furloughs end next Friday 6 weeks earlier than expected after the Pentagon realized that cost of literally shutting the government down every Monday and Friday (splitting the days furloughed in an attempt to have a 4 day work week) did NOT go as planned. Yes, people had Monday off, so all meetings to plan meeting with contractors, etc., were delayed until Tuesday, making the actual meetings at least Wednesday and often because of now back logged meetings cause of the short week, many meetings happened on Thursday, just in time for the Friday furloughs.

In the end, 6 weeks of "Savings with 800 thousand Fed employees didn't save the half a billion expected, but cost $2.5 Billion - in six weeks. So, we received the letter stating after next Friday, back to 5 days a week.

So, were are at work, here is where the gun id comes in. I applied roughly May 30th, had my finger printing done of June 6th and a week prior my two references received and returned their evaluations of me to my local PD. TODAY, my boss received the letter of employment mailed JUNE 3rd - 8+ weeks ago, the PD is only 2 miles from my military base. 2 miles and nearly 9 weeks to get the paper to my boss, it traveled about aimlessly or sat in a pile for months ON OUR BASE and finally delivered today. This is the Air Force Today, at least how much they care for the ex-Naval staff that was swallowed up by the AF three years ago.

So I called the PD, asking if this had held up the process at all, and the detective I was connected to (she handles all gun IF stuff) said that it didn't make a difference, she is just into MARCH requests now, so June is 3 months after that, so at least I assume 3 more months wait time.

Interestingly she said a man who filed in February called and asked when he should be expecting his ID card, she looked up his file and it was missing the finger print info which he had a receipt for and she verified it and had it sent to her. But in handling his file, she made no attempt to notify him that his info was incomplete. He of course had done everything required, so maybe now he will be processed.

It is a cluster mess and the detective said that 2 murders in our township contributed to the influx but that the re-election of the President caused a mass barrage of fire arm ID applications. I said "I'm glad I didn't blame it on Obama" she laughed understanding the wrong person on the phone could have taken that statement and though very differently of it. So my claim and it isn't just me, that the Obama administration single handed is causing the largest arming of the people in American history.

So, I will be surprised if I see my ID come before Christmas, and meanwhile (stupid me) checks the home phone for a message from the police station just in case things had settled down.

More than the time to process these documents is the issue of the Air force can't deliver a letter in under 2 months - the application state my bosses name, and building number and a phone contact number was included - as a tax payer, I'm PO'ed at this, and if my application were halted or rejected due to incomplete forms, I surely would not be happy and make it a mission to see why it takes so long to deliver main on a AF base. That isn't out of the question, I have no idea who to contact concerning that issue, but I could have a cockroach drag a letter that far in a 10th the time, that is inexcusable.

Please enjoy the forum, and if it has helped you in any way, we hope that a small donation can be made to support our FULLY member supported forum. You will never see advertisements here, and that is because of the generous members who have made our forum possible. We are in our second decade as a beekeeping forum and all thanks to member support. At the top right of every page is a donations link. Please help if you can.

ya know...as much as i dislike the air force, i think your anger is a little misplaced. you are jumping though all these nutty hoops in the first place because your state requires it. i can't imagine putting up with that to exercise a constitutional right.

what if you had to do all that to be granted the permission to speak in public, or go to church?

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Please enjoy the forum, and if it has helped you in any way, we hope that a small donation can be made to support our FULLY member supported forum. You will never see advertisements here, and that is because of the generous members who have made our forum possible. We are in our second decade as a beekeeping forum and all thanks to member support. At the top right of every page is a donations link. Please help if you can.

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....