V15:*reworded the losing condition*corrected the 1-way attack arrow from sp-1 to sp-4 and changed the label on it too.*added arrow from as-6 to au-2*increased visibility of the green/blue arrows in the legend.

V12:*instead of adding the "OR" that marshal suggested i preferred to clearly delimit the objectives. they should be perfectly clear now.*added another terit at the North Pole called NP-4 near the old NP-4 which is now called NP-5.*also tweaked the connections in that area and now NP-5 (ex-NP-4) has more connections and it's no longer secluded.*added a blue-ish tint to the arrows. (to be honest i'm not too fond of any of the connections so i'll probably scratch everything at a later point and redraw them. but for gameplay assessing purposes i think they're ok.

V11:*increased the size*made some more connections on the map, however i did not make all the connections requested because frankly i do not want every single base to be the same. i want some to be better and some worse. not by much, but just enough to make people adapt and think of different strategies each time they play. if i make everything perfectly balanced then i'm sure some of the flavour of the map will be reduced.

V5:added a 4th column to each tech treeincreased font size in some placesrearranged the bottom legend to better fit the explanationschanged the text to reflect the addition of a 4th tech columnthe flames light the surroundingsthe world display has a new texturemoved the flames towards the sides a bit to make room for a bigger central legendadded some graphic touches to the top legend boxes as well as the bottom one (some cuts in the frame and some wires)placed some rivetsadded sully's name on the mapthere might be other stuff that i changed and forgot to mention.

Each player will start with either a Human Base (Home symbol) or an Alien Base (Alien symbol) and some random non-important terits. Human base can attack one way any terit it borders on the map plus both ways the first row of Human Tech 1 (i'm still not sure about the one way)Alien base can attack one way any terit it borders on the map plus both ways the first row of Alien Tech 1 (i'm still not sure about the one way)Nuke silo can attack any terit it borders on the map plus the first row of Human Tech 2 DNA lab can attack any terit it borders on the map plus the first row of Alien Tech 2Tech 1 2nd row can bombard any non-umportant terit on the mapHuman Tech 2 2nd row can bombard DNA LabsAlien Tech 2 2nd row can bombard Nuke SilosHuman Tech 3 1st row can bombard any alien baseAlien Tech 3 1st row can bombard any human baseHuman Tech 3 2nd row and Alien Tech 3 2nd row are only used for the objective.

for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

winning conditions:i have several ideas here but i'm not sure which one can be done. also i plan on making the map in such a way that it's impossible to eliminate a player and one can only wi by completing an objective. also it would be great if several objectives could be used and one could complete any of them,1. hold the whole tech 3 for any race - this should be possible2. take all alien labs if you started as a human base or all human silos if you started as an alien 3. hold all nukes if you started as a human or hold all labs if you started as an alien

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list. Secondly, despite all the fancy symbols and tech trees, there doesn't seem to be much gameplay "meat". The first territories of each tech level do nothing but yield an auto-deploy, though the second set of territories in each level at least get bombardment powers as well, but then what's the purpose of there being two rows of territories in each tech level? Why not consolidate? The geographical area seems to have the single purpose of getting to a DNA lab/nuclear silo to get to the second level of the tech tree...which, I suppose, puts more focus on the tech trees/levels and using their respective bombardment powers, but I feel this map may become too systematic, especially being a conquest map. Also, I've noticed the only source of any deployable bonus is via the standard territory bonus - all bonuses sources you've included are solely auto-deploys, which doesn't seem conducive to real solid bonus system, and more importantly, it contributes more to that systematic feel. Perhaps consider including some sort of resource territory that supplies a bonus (possibly via techs, if you so choose). I mean, think about it, the aliens aren't risking their lives fighting on Earth just for kicks and giggles to see if they can best an intelligent (or so I like to think) race. Of course not! There here for something, so why not a particular resource that only Earth can provide? Plus, there seems to be a lack of geographical territories. I particularly think there aren't enough 'plain' territories. I think some, most, or all of the plain territories (particularly/especially if more are added) could stand to not be neutral, so as to, like I mentioned before, make it be less conquest and one-trick-pony-y. As for your winning conditions, they're all certainly possible as far as coding/XML is concerned and I'm fond of the concept of multiple winning conditions, but it is imperative that they are all equally obtainable by all players, so as to make the game be as balanced as possible, which I'm currently not convinced. The losing conditions sound good to me. Graphically speaking, it looks nice, though you could stand to one, make the title more prominent, as it's rather faded, two, cut off a lot from the top and bottom, as the map itself takes up only three-fifths of the image currently, and three, the text looks rather pixelated.

Those are my initial thoughts, anyway. I apologize if they seem disorganized.

And i thought you was gonna throw the towel in...when all the time you was cooking up another storm....you tricked us One thing though right up, it's difficult to read the title, and some of the Tech levels because of the glare.Great graphics idea/start...World 3000. I'll give you more when i see the instructions in the legend.

lol cairns. i haven't been cooking anything. earlier today i was toying around with some tutorials and one thing led to another and i got myself an image, then decided to make a map. i certainly wasn't planning for it. in fact the gameplay is clearly very undeveloped as i didn't bother to work too much on it.i've noted your graphic concerns and i'll attend to them as soon as i get a better/clearer gameplay going on.

“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.

that sucks

Victor Sullivan wrote:Secondly, despite all the fancy symbols and tech trees, there doesn't seem to be much gameplay "meat". The first territories of each tech level do nothing but yield an auto-deploy, though the second set of territories in each level at least get bombardment powers as well, but then what's the purpose of there being two rows of territories in each tech level? Why not consolidate?

so you have bases nukes and labs that autodeploy and the techs that give deployable bonuses.

Victor Sullivan wrote: The geographical area seems to have the single purpose of getting to a DNA lab/nuclear silo to get to the second level of the tech tree...which, I suppose, puts more focus on the tech trees/levels and using their respective bombardment powers, but I feel this map may become too systematic, especially being a conquest map. Also, I've noticed the only source of any deployable bonus is via the standard territory bonus - all bonuses sources you've included are solely auto-deploys, which doesn't seem conducive to real solid bonus system, and more importantly, it contributes more to that systematic feel. Perhaps consider including some sort of resource territory that supplies a bonus (possibly via techs, if you so choose). I mean, think about it, the aliens aren't risking their lives fighting on Earth just for kicks and giggles to see if they can best an intelligent (or so I like to think) race. Of course not! There here for something, so why not a particular resource that only Earth can provide?

see above. there are 12 deployable bonuses in the tech tree that give a total of +30.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Plus, there seems to be a lack of geographical territories. I particularly think there aren't enough 'plain' territories. I think some, most, or all of the plain territories (particularly/especially if more are added) could stand to not be neutral, so as to, like I mentioned before, make it be less conquest and one-trick-pony-y.

more terits could easily be added. in fact i was thinking of adding some terits in the oceans to profit from all the space available. it's the future so i'm pretty sure floating cities will be possible however i do want to keep the bases. i'm not sure if this is possible but maybe have 8 bases and each player gets 1 at start and X other terits that get distributed randomly. can this be done? have random terits but also make sure each player gets 1 base? if this is possible then i clearly like this solution.

Victor Sullivan wrote:As for your winning conditions, they're all certainly possible as far as coding/XML is concerned and I'm fond of the concept of multiple winning conditions, but it is imperative that they are all equally obtainable by all players, so as to make the game be as balanced as possible, which I'm currently not convinced.

if multiple winning conditions are possible then that's all i need to hear. making them equally obtainable will be a tough thing but it will be done.

Victor Sullivan wrote:The losing conditions sound good to me.

great.

Victor Sullivan wrote:Graphically speaking, it looks nice, though you could stand to one, make the title more prominent, as it's rather faded, two, cut off a lot from the top and bottom, as the map itself takes up only three-fifths of the image currently, and three, the text looks rather pixelated.

i will probably make another draft tomorrow with more terits and i'll also try to maximize the space usage.

D'oh! I guess I assumed those bonuses were auto-deploys. Shows how much I'm paying attention, I guess! I suppose that works, though I feel you could tie these bonuses with the whole resource concept like I mentioned before. Right now the techs seem rather...abstract. What are they? Think of R&C - each tech actually is called something, like it's (a) legitimate research/technology.

DiM wrote:i'm not sure if this is possible but maybe have 8 bases and each player gets 1 at start and X other terits that get distributed randomly. can this be done? have random terits but also make sure each player gets 1 base? if this is possible then i clearly like this solution.

Victor Sullivan wrote:D'oh! I guess I assumed those bonuses were auto-deploys. Shows how much I'm paying attention, I guess! I suppose that works, though I feel you could tie these bonuses with the whole resource concept like I mentioned before. Right now the techs seem rather...abstract. What are they? Think of R&C - each tech actually is called something, like it's (a) legitimate research/technology.

it's actually also my fault because i have the image with no working legend.as promised i made a new version which uses the free space much better. gameplay mechanics should be clearer now.and in the meantime i'll work on adding more terits.

Victor Sullivan wrote:

DiM wrote:i'm not sure if this is possible but maybe have 8 bases and each player gets 1 at start and X other terits that get distributed randomly. can this be done? have random terits but also make sure each player gets 1 base? if this is possible then i clearly like this solution.

That's precisely what I meant, actually. And yes! It is possible!

-Sully

perfect.

V2:added more legend space, and lots of text and more terits on the mapimproved visibility of the titlemuted the texture of the earth to make the connections more visible

Click image to enlarge.

Last edited by DiM on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.

If I remember, I think you can work around it by listing Level 3 as a bonus and then requiring all 24 territories as required to receive it. Though it would create a slightly larger file. But eh what do I know, I'm not an XML specialist!

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.

If I remember, I think you can work around it by listing Level 3 as a bonus and then requiring all 24 territories as required to receive it. Though it would create a slightly larger file. But eh what do I know, I'm not an XML specialist!

I think he's talking about Level 3 access not the Level 3 bonus. Thus, it falls under Conditional Borders, which isn't possible at the moment.

-Sully

EDIT: Can I do the XML for this one if zimmah hasn't already called dibs?

DiM wrote:for each race to get to the level 3 tech they must also master the tech of the opponent. for example if i start as a human base i must get to the second row of human tech 2 and i must also get to the second row of alien tech 2. but i'm not sure if this is possible with the current xml.if it's not i'll have to find another way of getting to tech lvl 3.

First off, this is not possible with the current XML. I think this would go under "Conditional Borders" on the wish list.

If I remember, I think you can work around it by listing Level 3 as a bonus and then requiring all 24 territories as required to receive it. Though it would create a slightly larger file. But eh what do I know, I'm not an XML specialist!

I think he's talking about Level 3 access not the Level 3 bonus. Thus, it falls under Conditional Borders, which isn't possible at the moment.

-Sully

for a moment there i had hope. then sully crushed it.

Victor Sullivan wrote:EDIT: Can I do the XML for this one if zimmah hasn't already called dibs?

i haven't talked to anybody about the xml. in fact i actually wanted to do the xml myself but i think i may be in over my head so if you want to do it you're more than welcome. i'll do my own xml on a simpler map

“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku

DiM wrote:1. hold the whole tech 3 for any race - this should be possible2. take all alien labs if you started as a human base or all human silos if you started as an alien 3. hold all nukes if you started as a human or hold all labs if you started as an alien

3 is possible, but only if it's impossable to take each others base (with taking mean assaulting and conquering)because there is currently no way to make winning conditions or continents that accept starting positions as a component.

however if there is no way to 'acquire' another base there is a way to work around that issue by using normal continents for this purpose. and using bombardments, it's still possible to eliminate someone's base.

say for example someone would start as an alien, but takes a human base, he now holds both bases, there's no way to 'tell' the xml if a player started as human or as alien, so that would make 2 impossible. 3 however is possible, as someone with an alien base would then not be able to ever acquire a human base, so any player holding an alien base must have had started with one, or he'd never be able to have one, so if he holds an alien base and all labs, he has the #3 victory condition.

Victor Sullivan wrote:EDIT: Can I do the XML for this one if zimmah hasn't already called dibs?

nope, i only saw this tread just now, so you're first to call. i liked to work with DiM on steamworks, so i'd like to do the XML for him on other maps as well, but i'll let DiM decide if he likes you or me to write the XML.

i also have some more maps in mind i'd like to make, but i need artists, can't find anyone to help me tho

i added neutrals on the map.the gameplay is basically like this. each player gets a base and a few non important terits.from there each player can either expand on earth or focus on technologies. but watch out. tech slots are limited not all people will have theirs and fighting will occur. tech lvl 1 not only gives a bonus but it also allows bombardment of non important terits from the second row (1.4-1.5-.16)to get to texh level 2 you need either an alien dna lab or a human nuke silo. this time you battle more neutrals but also get a heftier bonus and the chance to bombard the opponents' dna/nukes from the second row (2.4-2.5-2.6)and once you have mastered the tech lvl 2 by conquering its second row you can access the first row of tech lvl 3. from there you can either attack enemy bases or you can go for the second row and master the tech to win the game.now i'd like to add 2 more winning conditions:1. hold a human base and all alien dna labs2. hold an alien base and all human nuke siloswould this be too easy to do? on one hand they might seem easier to take than those 6 terits from tech lvl 3. but then again all those nukes/labs are very exposed to attacks from the land as well as bombardments from the tech tree, while the tech lvl 3 is not that hard to defend. thoughts?

V3.added neutralsfinalized the legend and included all attack rules and all bonuses.

Click image to enlarge.

“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku

I'm not too fond of the name though. AYBABTU is an old joke by now, it's been overused ad nauseum... It's not really funny anymore. I'm sure you can come up with a better name for the map.

i resent that. i actually played that game back in the early nineties. if that's an old joke than that means i'm also old... and i'm not with all the human bases and alien bases on the map it was only natural to think of that name. i'm not saying that i will change it or not but i am open for suggestions. if more people think aybabtu is a bad name and i get a good suggestion i'll probably do it.

“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku