According to sources, the NFL showed portions of the ledger during meetings with some of those who have been investigated in the scandal.

"The players clearly knew what was going each week with the payments," a source told Yahoo! Sports. In fact, multiple sources admitted that Saints defensive players would regularly encourage teammates to put money earned from the bounty system back into the pool. It's unclear if that was to increase the potential winnings or eventually use the money for some other purpose.

Regardless of whether the money was paid out or not, the mere implication of a cash payment for such plays is considered a violation of league rules.
NFL Players Association spokesman George Atallah said via text message that the league "made mention" of the ledger in a meeting with the union in April, but that the NFLPA had not seen the ledger yet.

As a result, Atallah called into question the use of the ledger as "evidence."

"I guess it either qualifies as evidence, which means fair due process was violated because [the] players didn't get to see it before they were punished or it is not hard evidence because they didn't get to see it and cross examine the validity of that piece of evidence," Atallah wrote.

This news comes in the aftermath of a declaration Friday by filmmaker Sean Pamphilon that he was encouraged by former New Orleans linebacker Scott Fujita to release an audio recording of former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, first obtained by Yahoo! Sports, in which Williams exhorts players to hurt members of the San Francisco 49ers in a playoff game last season.

Implicit within Pamphilon's 10,000-word description of the circumstances is that players such as Fujita and New Orleans quarterback Drew Brees and the NFL Players Association were attempting to push more of the blame for the bounty scandal onto Williams and the coaching staff.
Fujita, who did not immediately return a text seeking comment, is one of four players who has been suspended for his participation in the bounty scandal.

The ledger could prove to be extremely damning to the players' cause. Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma has filed a defamation lawsuit against NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in federal court in Louisiana, claiming he never paid nor received money for bounties.
Vilma's claim may ultimately be a matter of semantics.

SO AIRTIGHT, IN-FACT, THAT HE EXPOUNDED ON IT EARLIER IN THE MEDIA.
BUT WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN THEN ROGER GOODELL NEEDS "AN EXTENSION"
THIS EVIDENCE SHOULD BE EASY TO PRESENT, IN HARD COLD EVIDENCE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE!

Not speculation from "sources" on a YAHOO blog.
According to Goodell, the light should be BLAZING AFIRE SO BRIGHT EVEN PEOPLE ON THE MOON SHOULD SEE IT! right??

Quote:

It's unclear if that was to increase the potential winnings or eventually use the money for some other purpose.

Why not say that off the cuff. Why title your article slanted to defame the Saints defense?

The ledger could prove to be extremely damning to the players' cause. Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma has filed a defamation lawsuit against NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in federal court in Louisiana, claiming he never paid nor received money for bounties.

Vilma's claim may ultimately be a matter of semantics.

AND IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR GOODELL TO GO OUT IN PUBLIC WITHOUT PRESENTING EVIDENCE AND TRASHING THE NAME OF VILMA!

Even if everything is TRUE, no one who is the head of ANY organisation has the right to go out and re-injure an employee or contractor for a crime they are about to be punished for.

GOODELL USED VILMA TO GRANDSTAND AND WILL NOT GET AWAY WITH IT THIS TIME!!

SO AIRTIGHT, IN-FACT, THAT HE EXPOUNDED ON IT EARLIER IN THE MEDIA.
BUT WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN THEN ROGER GOODELL NEEDS "AN EXTENSION"
THIS EVIDENCE SHOULD BE EASY TO PRESENT, IN HARD COLD EVIDENCE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE!

Not speculation from "sources" on a YAHOO blog.
According to Goodell, the light should be BLAZING AFIRE SO BRIGHT EVEN PEOPLE ON THE MOON SHOULD SEE IT! right??

Why not say that off the cuff. Why title your article slanted to defame the Saints defense?

AND IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR GOODELL TO GO OUT IN PUBLIC WITHOUT PRESENTING EVIDENCE AND TRASHING THE NAME OF VILMA!

Even if everything is TRUE, no one who is the head of ANY organisation has the right to go out and re-injure an employee or contractor for a crime they are about to be punished for.

GOODELL USED VILMA TO GRANDSTAND AND WILL NOT GET AWAY WITH IT THIS TIME!!

Halo......we all know why Goodell asked for an extension. So that he could have enough time to "manufacture" some kind of evidence. Anyone in their right mind knows that they would have ponied up with it by now with pressure from the NFLPA & the lawsuits. But.......after months of speculation & posturing for the media.......Goodell has come up with nothing that could even remotely be held up in a court of law. The best they have is an audio of Gregg Williams using metaphors & talking of testing an opposing players injury.

Beastmode

06-01-2012 06:22 PM

They would have to bring their source in on a private jet, at night, with a disguise and even that might not be enough to protect them. Who in their right mind would agree to that. Eventually you would be revealed and your life would never be the same.

halloween 65

06-01-2012 06:31 PM

I will be glad when it's all over. Hopefully Goddell gets exposed for the crap that he is.

Halo

06-01-2012 06:32 PM

agreed, no evidence, just making it up

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandhi1007
(Post 409472)

The best they have is an audio of Gregg Williams using metaphors & talking of testing an opposing players injury.

oH, YOU MEAN THE ONE WITH - hit 'em low and hit 'em hard!

I remember my coach at Joe Brown Park in New Orleans told me to do the same thing - "hit 'em low and hit 'em hard!"

By all appearances, the NFL finally has released evidence of the bounty program in New Orleans. Not directly, of course, but by leaking it to Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports.

That said, the evidence given to Cole raises more questions than it answers.

Cole explains that the ledger maintained by the Saints identifies three separate $1,000 payments for supposed “cart-offs” during a game against the Buffalo Bills. But Cole doesn’t mention the players from the Bills who were injured.

Presumably, they were players from the Bills’ offense, right?

That’s not the case.

The Associated Press reported that four Bills were injured in the game. Three of them were members of the Buffalo defense: cornerback Leodis McKelvin, safety Donte Whitner, and safety Bryan Scott. On offense, left tackle Demetress (then Demetrius) Bell suffered a knee injury.

McKelvin suffered a broken leg, and he was placed on injured reserve. (It’s not entirely clear based on Cole’s report whether the notation in the ledger reflecting the placement of a player on injured reserve comes from the Buffalo game.)

So how were three $1,000 awards made for cart-offs when only one offensive player from the Bills was injured?

There are several explanations. The most likely is that the ledger isn’t accurate, and thus not entirely reliable. The least likely is that the ledger is fabricated, and thus completely unreliable.

But what if the ledger is evidence that the bounty program crossed the lines of offense and defense, paying offensive players who inflicted injury on opposing defensive players? If there truly was a bounty program, it’s possible that the defense maintained the bounty program, and that the defense would decide to periodically kick some cash to offensive players who exhibited the mindset that the defense was cultivating.

The NFL never has claimed that offensive players were paid. But if the ledger is accurate, it’s possible that’s the only explanation.

And if that’s the case, Drew Brees will most definitely need an explanation.

RockyMountainSaint

06-01-2012 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo
(Post 409478)

oH, YOU MEAN THE ONE WITH - hit 'em low and hit 'em hard!

I remember my coach at Joe Brown Park in New Orleans told me to do the same thing - "hit 'em low and hit 'em hard!"

So.......how is it that Jason Cole from Yahoo Sports has seen this phantom ledger, but the NFLPA has not. Wouldn't this be in violation of the CBA? Also.....if this Jason Cole was presented said evidence so quickly, why does Goodell need an extension before presenting it to the U.S. District Court where he is being sued??? Hmmmmmmmm.........

Beastmode

06-01-2012 09:24 PM

A ledger is a very unstable source of information. It can be doctored or created out of thin air to create any circumstances you want to present. I know it's just a movie, but in A Few Good Men that's exactly what Col Jesub did when he had the flight logs adjusted.

If they did It I accept it but RG has nothing concrete. Now he throws this ledger out after he already stated on ESPN he presented everything he had! What this says to me is he is in fact a liar and any evidence he submits from this point on is suspect.

Rugby Saint II

06-01-2012 09:38 PM

I'm going with completely fabricated.

Halo

06-01-2012 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandhi1007
(Post 409505)

So.......how is it that Jason Cole from Yahoo Sports has seen this phantom ledger, but the NFLPA has not. Wouldn't this be in violation of the CBA? Also.....if this Jason Cole was presented said evidence so quickly, why does Goodell need an extension before presenting it to the U.S. District Court where he is being sued??? Hmmmmmmmm.........

Remember, Goodell is just "Answering" the charges (interrogatories) filed against him. Goodell may present objections and answers to each interrogatory. The defendant usually has 30 days to answer but a court, on motion and notice and for good cause shown, may enlarge or shorten the time.

In his answer he can specify evidence but that evidence will not be worked over until the discovery process begins in full. The court is trying to ascertain whether the plaintiff (Vilma) has a case to proceed, and that the case stands on its own merits to come before the court.

gandhi1007

06-01-2012 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo
(Post 409516)

Remember, Goodell is just "Answering" the charges (interrogatories) filed against him. Goodell may present objections and answers to each interrogatory. The defendant usually has 30 days to answer but a court, on motion and notice and for good cause shown, may enlarge or shorten the time.

In his answer he can specify evidence but that evidence will not be worked over until the discovery process begins in full. The court is trying to ascertain whether the plaintiff (Vilma) has a case to proceed, and that the case stands on its own merits to come before the court.

Why then, has he not shared such evidence with the player's union......as they have already requested such evidence??? Doesn't make sense, since it was so freely given to Mr. cole.

...where they were scamming for orange futures... except this time it is even more auspicious.

Funny how history repeats itself, kinda!

xan

06-01-2012 10:51 PM

So why "release" the information deemed so critical to one NFL mouthpiece and not simply make it public record? Why not show it to the NFLPA or any of the accused?

If you're in the morally and factually superior position, there is little downside to settling issues of those facts. These games suggest there is much to dispute.

Love the Mooninites.

Halo

06-01-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandhi1007
(Post 409518)

Why then, has he not shared such evidence with the player's union......as they have already requested such evidence??? Doesn't make sense, since it was so freely given to Mr. cole.

Separate from this case, that's a very good question and exactly what I was trying to say earlier.

If you ask me, I think Goodell is looking more and more filthy everyday AND I PLAN TO CONTINUE TO CALL HIM OUT DAILY!!!

gandhi1007

06-01-2012 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo
(Post 409527)

If you ask me, I think Goodell is looking more and more filthy everyday AND I PLAN TO CONTINUE TO CALL HIM OUT DAILY!!!

I got your back!!!

RaginCajun83

06-01-2012 11:33 PM

I don't even care at this point, what's Goddell going to do now, make the Saints play with 10 on defense. Screw Goddell and all this "bounty" talk, it's ruined the offseason for me personally to where I'm barely watching anything sports related. I just wish Drew would sign and the season would begin so the "media" would go back to covering actual play on the field

I find it funny that all those injuries in the Buffalo game happened to defensive players.

gandhi1007

06-01-2012 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83
(Post 409535)

I find it funny that all those injuries in the Buffalo game happened to defensive players.

Nothing like a witch hunt,especialy when you can get the media to do the dirty work for you.

Saintswrath

06-12-2012 07:47 PM

Goodell is getting off that he can hang a team by the nuts and aint nothing they can do about it but cry foul, he's trying to flex his power and show the rest of the NFL what a commissioner is capable of, if he loses then the commissioner's power everyone thought was the most powerful in all sports will be diminished, he aint lettin a little market team take his power away..
He's probably a Vikings fan or Favre fan and was part of the "Crying Game" of 2009 after the beat down.