This is a discussion on Let's See If We Can Build A Functional ICM Spreadsheet within the online poker forums, in the General Poker section; You wouldn't need any knowledge of spreadsheets to get involved but a basic understanding of the ICM concept is necessary.
I'm thinking that the first thing

Let's See If We Can Build A Functional ICM Spreadsheet

You wouldn't need any knowledge of spreadsheets to get involved but a basic understanding of the ICM concept is necessary.

I'm thinking that the first thing needed to identify all of the concepts that ICM needs to take into account. If we can figure this out we should be able to build the right database to begin the necessary calculations. From there we would have to figure out the sequence of the calculations and hopefully come up a correct answer. Having a functional calculator that came from a group effort would be amazing.

I think that we could learn a lot from breaking things down like this. I only have a basic understanding at this point in time.

Is anyone interested?

Similar Threads for: Let's See If We Can Build A Functional ICM Spreadsheet

You wouldn't need any knowledge of spreadsheets to get involved but a basic understanding of the ICM concept is necessary.

I'm thinking that the first thing needed to identify all of the concepts that ICM needs to take into account. If we can figure this out we should be able to build the right database to begin the necessary calculations. From there we would have to figure out the sequence of the calculations and hopefully come up a correct answer. Having a functional calculator that came from a group effort would be amazing.

I think that we could learn a lot from breaking things down like this. I only have a basic understanding at this point in time.

Is anyone interested?

I find this as very interesting idea! Which games you are aiming to cover/ calculate?

#3

October 21st, 2017, 8:12 PM

kcanuck [12,210]

I was thinking that ICM is most helpful in late game MTTs and shortstacked MTT play. Maybe late game MTT would be the best place to start?

#4

October 21st, 2017, 8:35 PM

AlexTheOwl [860]

Online Poker at: Ignition

I believe ICM does not apply heads-up, and does not apply in winner-take-all tournaments. So I think the most simple case would be three players, two prizes?

Once upon a time I might have been able to puzzle this out, but college was more than 25 years ago . . .

Thanks for that I'll start doing a bit of research later this week.

#7

October 24th, 2017, 1:08 PM

10058765 [6,935]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Mixed

Originally Posted by AlexTheOwl

I believe ICM does not apply heads-up, and does not apply in winner-take-all tournaments. So I think the most simple case would be three players, two prizes?

Starting from scratch that would be the most simple scenario I guess.
Being it a first step it could be worked out to more complex scenarios.
I guess with this first step it's kinda logic to work it out for 6-man sng with 2 places paid, after which 9-man sng could be the next.

I think the most common situations where ICM plays a big role are these 1-table sng's and MTT final tables.

ICM asks for quite complex calculations which are very hard to do on the fly,
(still I think most players by intuition use it in a raw format without realising it's a form of ICM they use).

I remember using an ICM calculator when in a tournament there were negotiations about making a deal.
Guess it would be nice to have the formulas from these calculators , used to calculate the numbers.

If I understand you correctly, the goal is to develop a simple to use spreadsheet which tells us what would be the correct play with certain hands using ICM.

I'm not sure but I thought SnG wizard is a software which does that, but is not allowed to use while playing, again, I'm not sure.

#8

October 25th, 2017, 4:37 PM

10058765 [6,935]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Mixed

Thinking about it and having played with some numbers in some calculators I think you are trying to re-invent the wheel.
Although it's quite interesting to dive into the understanding of ICM, there will always be some variables to add manually, which is about impossible to do while playing.

#9

November 23rd, 2017, 5:19 PM

AlfieAA [10,488]

Poker at: cardschat

Game: NLHE

How did you get on?

#10

November 23rd, 2017, 5:31 PM

kcanuck [12,210]

re: Poker & Let's See If We Can Build A Functional ICM Spreadsheet

Originally Posted by AlfieAA

How did you get on?

Honestly I haven't done anything yet. Guess it's time to take a deep breath and dive in.

Guess I'll start by formulating starting hand equities and see where that leads.

#11

November 23rd, 2017, 6:27 PM

AlfieAA [10,488]

Poker at: cardschat

Game: NLHE

Originally Posted by kcanuck

Honestly I haven't done anything yet. Guess it's time to take a deep breath and dive in.

Guess I'll start by formulating starting hand equities and see where that leads.

Cool..can you teach me how it's done during the process?

#12

November 23rd, 2017, 6:32 PM

kcanuck [12,210]

Originally Posted by AlfieAA

Cool..can you teach me how it's done during the process?

Sure, no problem First step is research, see if someone has already done the work to formulate combos and such.

#13

November 23rd, 2017, 6:55 PM

AlfieAA [10,488]

Poker at: cardschat

Game: NLHE

Originally Posted by kcanuck

Sure, no problem First step is research, see if someone has already done the work to formulate combos and such.

Ok, I'll have a look and see what I can find

#14

November 23rd, 2017, 7:53 PM

mtl mile end [1,806]

Online Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NLHE

Subscribed!

I have nothing to offer to this thread, but would like to see what you come up with.

#15

November 24th, 2017, 11:54 PM

firstcrack [363]

Game: holdem

re: Poker & Let's See If We Can Build A Functional ICM Spreadsheet

Sometimes I think we make things that should be intuitive, and basic common sense, too complicated. If ICM helps with the vernacular in calling attention to an important concept, even more so than say, 'laddering up', then great. Otherwise, I think if you play enough tournaments you can gain a pretty decent internal ICM calculator. As always, I could be wrong.

#16

December 11th, 2017, 11:21 PM

kcanuck [12,210]

I mucked around with this for a while and holy shit there's a lot involved!

I made a of spreadsheet for PF hand strength against a few ranges but even that took a while. Messed around with pay structures and situational odds but haven't been able to come up with any constant that's repeatable in different stages.

Might still be doable? I'll keep revisiting it when time permits.

#17

December 12th, 2017, 2:20 AM

Herkstwin [256]

Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Hold'em

Based on the details of the model presented by AlexTheOwl, it would appear that there are already programs out there that do exactly what you are trying to do.

If the info on this web site (http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipICMCruncher.html) is any indicator of the complexity of what you are trying to create, then you are way out of my league.

#18

December 12th, 2017, 4:12 PM

kcanuck [12,210]

Originally Posted by Herkstwin

Based on the details of the model presented by AlexTheOwl, it would appear that there are already programs out there that do exactly what you are trying to do.

If the info on this web site (http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipICMCruncher.html) is any indicator of the complexity of what you are trying to create, then you are way out of my league.

Thanks for the link

I know it's already out there, there are really 2 reasons I'm interested in doing this...

1. To actually learn (in depth) all of the factors involved...increase in poker knowledge

2. To see if I can actually pull it off

#19

December 12th, 2017, 4:54 PM

10058765 [6,935]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Mixed

Originally Posted by kcanuck

Thanks for the link

I know it's already out there, there are really 2 reasons I'm interested in doing this...

1. To actually learn (in depth) all of the factors involved...increase in poker knowledge

2. To see if I can actually pull it off

Hey Dave, you know ofcourse I'm a spreadsheet dummy and although at some point I learned programming, that's about 2 lifetimes ago.
Though, maybe you can give me a look in what you have sofar, to give me a better understanding about the concept and about what you are working to.
It might help me coming with some ideas.

#20

December 13th, 2017, 1:25 AM

Zzzms [46]

Online Poker at: ACR lately

Game: dramaha

re: Poker & Let's See If We Can Build A Functional ICM Spreadsheet

I find myself doing a lot of make shift icm approximations, in the mid to late stages of mtt's. Im never quite sure if i'm playing some hands too nitty.
For instance
Avg stack
mid mtt, maybe 10 orbits before the the money bubble
in the hj with 33
table is semi agro most of it being to my left
On some tables i open without a second thought
but in some spots i pass without a thought and feel like a nit when the bb gets a walk

#21

December 13th, 2017, 1:29 AM

Zzzms [46]

Poker at: ACR lately

Game: dramaha

Also, utg with small pairs in similar situations.

I play a lot of micro, low, and mid mtts.
and some of the lower stakes games are hard to get a good feel for the game flow, because you never know when someone will go crazy with AJs or something equally marginal. So its hard to make those on the go approximations and then adjust to unconventional styles.