0:00:01 J.de.Dieu : My name is Uwamungu Jean de Dieu. My dad was born in Butamwa, which is currently in Kigali City but used to be in Rural Kigali

province. Currently I live with my uncle in Kiyovu.

Manu : Where were you born?

J.de Dieu : I was also born in Butamwa, but I didn't used to live there. The war started while I was at my grandpa's.

Manu : Where is that?

J.de Dieu : In Shorongi.

Manu : That means that everything that happened found you at your grandpa's?

J.de Dieu : No. Most of the things happened when I had left. I immediately escaped.

Manu : You are currently a student. In which year are you?

J.de Dieu : Yes I am a student. I am in secondary four in the accounting section.

Manu : What was your father's name?

J.de Dieu : Dad…? He was called Gatsimbanyi Emmanuel and my mum was called Niragire Laurence.

Manu : How many were you in your family?

J.de Dieu They were six, plus me we were seven.

Manu : And how many survived?

J.de Dieu : I am the only one who survived.

Manu : Does that mean that they all died?

J.de Dieu : All! besides those who were not around. The only reason why my uncle survived is because he was living in exile; he wasn't in Rwanda.

Manu : Tell us something about your parents and your family; what they used to do, how many were they…?

J.de Dieu : My dad was an employee of SOMIRWA [the associatin that was in charge of selling minirals] that is where e was working. My mum was a farmer and
the children … well since my dad was … I was the oldest among those we shared a mum, because dad had another wife but later they got misunderstandings and ended the relationship. She left two
sons and they were older than me. Then there were four others who were younger than me.

Manu : Where were you living?

J.de Dieu : We were living in Butamwa.

Manu : In which year were you born?

J.de Dieu : I was born in 1985.

Manu : So how old are you…?

J.de Dieu : 19.

Manu Tell us about your life before the Genocide. How were things then?

J.de Dieu : Life before the war! I didn't like living with my parents. I only wanted to live with my grandfather; my grandfather was the person whose company
I enjoyed the most. I reached an extent of refusing to go to school just because I wanted to stay with my grandpa. I moved in with him and we lived together. When my parents realized that I
didn't want to live with them, they let me go to my grandpa's. I was happy because he had cattle and I would spend the whole day with him grazing the cows. Later, he started to narrate me
stories of the past. Sometimes he would give me examples of some of our neighbours who were still alive. He told me how in 1959 they would come and loot their properties; take their cows, kill
them… kill their cows, sometimes eat them or take the rest. But during those days they didn't used to kill people, it was rare. He used to tell it to me live…! He also gave me another example
of a man called Nshaka who was our neighbour and I think he was arrested after the war and released because he was aged. There were other children at grandpa's; they were his sister's
grandchildren. Therefore, they were his grandchildren too. They are the ones we used to be together. Only one of them survived, the rest died. We used to play together on the streets. What I
talked about is my life before the war. I didn't know much, I was simply interested in grazing cows, eating and playing on the streets.

Manu : What was your grangfather's occupation?

0:06:29 J.de Dieu He was a farmer. But he had cows too because we used to graze them together.

0:06:38 Manu Q …

J.de Dieu : Yes. I remember it was in 1991… between the year 1991 and 1992. I was coming from grazing the cattle, I remember I had fought with Nshaka's kids
who were also looking after cows. When he asked me why I fought with them, I told him they had hit a cow with a stick in the ears. And when they hurt the cow, I had to fight them. We never used
to hit cows; we would just caress them while saying soft words and the cow would go where you want it to go. We never used to beat them because almost all cows were peaceful. So, when I faught
and after telling grandpa all that, he decided to tell me all about his past. I didn't know it then. He gave me another example of how one time they came to loot them and they refused to live
the house. The same Nshaka was leading thea group of attachers and when they reached our home… I guess he told me that it was in the year 1973; they came to my grandpa's house, grandpa told
them that he was not going to leave the house. "Maybe you burn me inside", he told them. Therefore, they took away cows and his harvest since he had refused to get out of the house. They did
not burnt him, they just left him there in the house and took everything. From then, I started developing hatred towards them. I started hating even the people who were looking after his cows.
I wouldn't want to come close to them and whenever I would see their cows, I would feel like hitting them to death.

Manu : When was that?

J.de Dieu : It was around 1992.

Manu : Why would you do that?

J.de Dieu : I … I loved my grandpa so much, I cannot explain it. Maybe because he used to give me total freedom. There was a place that used to be close to
the main road, I used to like sitting there at the road. And again he would let me graze the cattle while at home they would want me to just sitting there. Yet there were no kids to play with.
Generally, I used to like my grandpa's place. I was happy there.

Manu : Your grandfather died?

J.de Dieu : My grandfather died.

Manu : Any of his cows?

J.de Dieu : There is no cow. You cannot even find one. They are all finished.

Manu : From your point of view, when do you think change occurred in your life? When did you notice the changes?

J.de Dieu : I … normally I didn't… whenever I would see such things, I would never understand what it meant. Because I used to enjoy it myself. Whenever I
would see the militias coming … we never used to call them Interahamwe.There were political parties such as M.D.R but at the time, in Shyorongi commune, I only knew of M.R.N.D. because I would
hear them animating, singing loudly… It's only in 1993 that I understood they were political parties and why they were created. When I would hear of Inkotanyi, I thought of them in a negative
way because I believed what was said about them. I was not aware of what was coming next. In 1993 my grandfather told me they might have resumed their mission, the one they had in 1959 and
1973." I would think that … he didn't think people would kill others. We thought it would be as usual; taking cows, looting properties, demolishing houses and that would be all. I never thought
that the things that took place here in 1994 would happen. I was really surprised. I didn't have a clue.

Manu : How did it start? How did it start in 1993…?

J.de Dieu : In 1993 in Shyorongi, I was … we were living in one part… It was like one part of the cell. All our relatives were living in that area. There was
a road from Gisenyi and Ruhengeri going to Kigali. People would pass waving flags, seated on top of mini buses… In our neighbourhood, there never used to be much people … the only people that
used to be there were that old man's family. That old man also had a very big family. If one said that there were only two families in that area, one would be almost true. Almost everyone was
related to that old man called Nshaka and the rest were related to my grandfather. That was the only type of people you would find there.

Manu : Which cell was that?

J.de Dieu : It was called Nyarurama.… then later, I would see people going to Shyorongi stadium, which was called Nyakabingo. Even people from other sectors
would go there and dance and drink and then later they would go home. Me too, I would go there to dance because I used to like it. Although I would go to dance, I could see that some people in
my family were not happy with it. I would sense something but it would be so unclear to me. Later in … 1993 when I really knew what political parties were. The year was ending, I remember I was
in primary three and that is when I quit school. I just stopped studying. I remember there was a war but the war hadn't reached our area. We used to hear that there is a war in Ruhengeri and
Byumba.

Manu : Why did you stop studying?

J.de Dieu : Well at school, even my teacher was my relative. But I used to hate being beaten… one time I went to school late, and when I was caned I just
walked out of school and to hell! I didn't see any importance of studying. Even my grandpa had never gone to school and when I told him about it, he never had any reaction. Therefore, I stopped
studying. From then, I didn't go back to school. I went back to school only after the war.

Manu : When you went back, which class did you join?

J.de Dieu : I went back to primary three after the war. Up to now I am still in school.

Manu : Did you go back in 1994, immediately after the war.

J.de Dieu : No. I went back in 1996.

Manu : Q …

J.de Dieu : I went there … I completed primary during the school year 1995-1996.

Manu : Why did you go back to school?

J.de Dieu : They told me to go back to school because they realised that there was nothing else I could do with my life. I wasn't mature enough to look for a
job. I just went to school up to now.

Manu : Tell me how the war … how did you face 1994 personally?

J.de Dieu : Well, when the war started… personally I used to like soldiers very much. But…during the first months of the year 1994, I had an uncle, he was my
mum's brother; he was a son to the big brother of my grandpa [In Kinyarwanda, cousins whose fathers are brothers are considered as brothers and sisters]. He had joined the Inkotanyi army. Many
people used to come saying, "In your family, some people joined the Inkotanyi." Even me, whenever I would hear of Inkotanyi I would imagine that they were very bad people. Generally, I would
hate the Inkotanyi so much. Due to the way they would talk of Inkotanyi, I also would believed that Inkotanyi were very bad

J.de Dieu I think the war started in February 1994. That is when my mum's cousin came home. But he did not spend the night there; he went back on the same
day. And then soldiers came home to look for him. They searched in our house but they did not find him. In April, I remember it was at night around… between 8 p.m and 9 p.m if can remember. We
heard from the radio that Habyarimana was dead. Then followed cries; people crying and shootings… soldiers shot so many bullets. We didn't know what was taking place. We were so frightened. In
the morning on the radio they said that no one should leave his or her house. It was declared that people shouldn't walk in twos. 0:18:09 J.de Dieu But I did not obey that law. I just went out.
They were soldiers who were camping around there. When they were going to shift to Ruhengeri, I went and stood somewhere near the place where they were packing their luggage. When they were
living I left with them. When I reached Ruhe … they did not go straight to Ruhengeri, they first went to Tare. Tare is also in Kigali-Ngali [Rural Kigali Province]. They camped there. I used to
enjoy watching them using their guns, there is nothing I enjoyed more than that. As I was standing … in the morning, there are some people who came there where we were camping and said, "There
are some people who are killing others." And when the soldiers were about to go and help them, a soldier who had a higher rank came and said, "Leave them!" Then I don't know which other soldier
said, "You too, go and work." And because some of them didn't know what was taking place, they would ask; "What work are they talking about?" He responded, "The Tutsis have killed Habyarimana;
the Inkotanyi killed him. Therefore, you have to kill all Tutsis and wipe them out." After he said so, I recalled everything grandpa used to tell me. Immediately I went back with the car that
was going back to the camp. The camp was near our home. When I got home, I found when they would hide during the day and come back at night. And whenever I would inquire what was going on, no
one would answer me.

J.de Dieu : One night we came back and while I was sleeping with my grandpa, I asked him, "Why are we hidding all the time?" Then he told me, "You remember
what I once told you. They have resumed it, but this time it is even worse." I immediately understood that the looting of people's properties, the killing of cows and the destruction of houses
was about to happen. Well, around the 12th of April… my uncle [mum's brother] had married a Hutu lady…her brothers took her with her kids and said that the rest should be killed. They took them
all on that day; a troop came and took them all. I left for Butamwa at home. I left thinking that maybe things were safer back home. 0:21:16 J.de Dieu But when I reached there… I was shocked. I
did not find a single person there; the house was widly open with no one inside. It was around 6:00 o'clock in the evening, I looked for them but I never found anybody. As I was still … I went
to grandma because it was not far from there but when I reached there I did not find anyone neither. I went back home. Since it was on the hill, I had to descend. I heard people,… people who
were maybe from attacking some place… maybe they were across the hill; I couldn't tell where they were from. They came running; I heard a crowd of people and it was getting dark. When I heard
people making a lot of noise, I climbed a mango tree and sat there. They came and went around the house and entered inside but they didn't find anybody. Then they started saying, "They've gone
to hide, they will come back in the night or maybe someone else has already taken them."

J.de Dieu From then, I got the confirmation that my people were still alive. Then I thought, "They haven't died yet, maybe they are hidding somewhere." As I
was still in the tree, at night, at about 7:30 p.m…. I got hungry and started eating mangos. When I finished the first one I grabbed the second one. I suddenly heard someone coming through the
banana plantation. Immediately I … I left the mango waited to see who it was. The I found out it was grandma. Therefore, I came down the tree and greeted her. She was very surprised to see me
alive. And she told me that, even the others were still alive. Then she took me to … there was a place where they used to mine cassitérite, in deep holes and that is where they used to live;
they would spend the whole day in those holes and come out at night when they were going to sleep

J.de Dieu After showing me where they were, we went home to sleep at night. The following day, as we were preparing to live at 3:00… In fact, we used to go
home to sleep at 3 a.m and then at 4:00 a.m we would go back to the holes to hide. Immediately they found out that we would hide and come back to sleep, a very big group of killers came, the
people who were in that attack were our neighbours, we were living in the same cell. They came and shouted. They surrounded the whole house and soon after all doors were open. Dad slammed the
door and locked it, they hit it hard and it fell inside... I had a sister who had been born lame. Dad asked her if he could carry her, but she refused. And when she refused… They had ordered us
all to get out and while dad was still arguing with them, they beat him up and he just carried the kid on his shoulders. I was holding a mattress on the head, when they started pushing us
forward, saying they were taking us to kill us with others. They asked us to choose between putting us in a bus and taking us to Arusha. That is what I heard but I didn't understand which bus
they were talking about. I thought it was a normal bus but I checked around and I didn't see any. Well as they were still talking, putting people in front, I slightly bent. I was very small, it
seemed like I was sleeping under the mattress. Then, I sneaked away and left the mattress there. They thought I was under the mattress. I went and hid in the bushes around and when they checked
below the mattress, they didn't see anyone. However, they did not mind much about it, they just got confused and left. Until today, I don't know how they were killed

. 0:25:58 J.de Dieu But I am sure they all died. They took them and then … in my mind, I couldn't think of nothing, neither could I feel anything. While I
was hiding there, [I cannot find the right way of describing how I was feeling] I sat and thought for a while… it was around 11:00 a.m. I got out of the bush because there were dogs passing all
the time, trained to search for people during the day. I went into a certain hole where we used to spend time and in the evening, at around 7:00 p.m I left the hole. The I thought, "If they
took my whole family at home, maybe at grandpa's they are still there. Maybe they hid and came back to sleep." When I reached there… I was very dark almost in the morning, it was at around 3:30
or 4:00 a.m. I found nobody at home [his grandfather's home] and the house had no doors left. I looked for people but I couldn't find anyone. I checked at the road … I went to look for them at
the road but I didn't find them. I met soldiers walking around. There was a lady called Françoise who lived in Shyorongi. She looked older than her age. - A certain soldier asked me, "Aren't
you Françoise's brother?" - I said "Yes I am." Then he took me and said that Françoise was his friend. He took me and then I went to live together with the soldiers. Later, all the soldiers who
were there were taken to Jari, where there is a radio antenna. I continued to live with soldiers but I had never seen people being killed; I thought it was just chaos and that things would
change with time. The following morning, they brought other Tutsis people… The first person I saw being murdered was a lady whom they got and cut with a bayonet; they cut her neck open and
blood spread all over. I was so scared; it was my first time to witness murder. I had never seen her before. She was living in Jari but up to now I don't know her name. I just saw her there but
I still remember her today

J.de Dieu : The war went on, the soldiers were fighting against the Inkotanyi in the hills. Meanwhile, the Interahamwe would take local people and kill them
in the camp just where there is a football field that used to belong to the state police. One evening some cooking oil was brought for the soldiers. Then they said that, there is no logic in
eating good food while their father has died [President Habyarimana]. Then they filled several drums with oil and put them on fire. Then they would choose the short Tutsis and dump them in it
and burnt them alive. I was terrified! Therefore, I decided to move forward, towards where the war was taking place. When I got there, I didn't know how to move on my stomach like I would see
others doing… when I saw some of the people I was with being shot dead, I decided to go back. When I got there there, I found so many kids who had come from their homes in the neighbourhood to
join the army. Then some Interahamwe came to investigate on all the kids. They picked all the kids, me included. Since the soldier [who had taken me there] was there, he talked on my behalf
telling that I don't come from that area when they were almost taking me. Then some people said that I was born there, that they even knew me. I remember there was a certain Interahamwe who
said that he knew me that I was Kayiranga's son but I didn't know who Kayiranga was. He told them that they got me from Byumba when the Inkotanyi had killed all my parents, and that the
refugees had taken me there. Immediately they took me out and took the rest of the kids. One kid escaped them but unfortunately, he took off through a place full of land mines and they killed
him. And all the rest were murdered.

J.de Dieu Then I left; there was a small court that was next to the camp before you reach the antenna. All the people who were caught were burnt there; they
would pour petrol on them while they were standing and they would burn them. That was the place where they would train Interahamwe how to use guns. They ordered others to use pickaxes. Next to
that place is where the local counselor was living; we would call it ‘at the counselor's." But I didn't know him; I just used to hear that it was at the counselor's. They made people dig holes;
once one would dig a pit of his or her height, he or she would enter into the hole and they would just put soil above when someone is still alive. Meanwhile, some Hutu kids who had come from
Byumba accused me of being a Tutsi. I overheard them saying they were going to call the Interahamwes to come and kill me. They went to call them [the Interahamwes] at night. In fact, I
overheard them saying it through the window. I immediately run away and when I got in the middle of where the Inkotanyis and the soldiers I was with were fighting, I sneaked inside the house of
the ‘counsellor' of Jari. When I got inside, there were dead bodies all over the place, that's where they were keeping them. Since I didn't have anywhere else to go, I hid in the middle of the
corpses. When they came, they could not see me. Then they closed the door and went. I spent about 4 hours lying down with those corpses. Then I decided to leave the house after realizing that
it was calm. I stayed in the area where the soldiers were fighting. I would hide at the frontline. And that is where I was staying.

J.de Dieu : There was an old woman they had refused to kill; I used to see her whenever we would be going to harvest fruit, maize and sugarcane. I would
always take some to her before I would take them to the soldiers. They ended up killing her two days before we left the place. In that area the Inkotanyi had blocked the roads used for taking
food to the soldiers in the camp. When they realized they could no longer get any food or bullets delivery, they decided to leave. The following day, we spent the whole day without hearing any
shooting until 8:00 p.m when they told us to leave. As we were going the soldier who had taken me with him had a bag full of money. He said he was taking it to Françoise; I mean the Françoise
who lived in Shyorongi. Since he had a gun, he went in front of us then I followed him. We bumped into the Inkotanyis and he was the first one to be shot dead and everyone else was killed. I
looked around but I couldn't see a single living person, they had all died. Therefore I sat down to try and pull myself down as I didn't even know where I was.

J.de Dieu : One Interahamwe came behind me and explained to me that he had lost his gun and that if he went back to the camp without it, the soldiers may
kill him. He asked me to accompany him while he was looking for it. I told him it was okay as long as he went in front and I followed him which he agreed. When we reached in front I heard
people talking. I quickly hid myself behind a tree trunk that was around. It was about 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. He moved forward and I heard them shooting him with many bullets; he screamed only once
and died. I turned and took off. Because it was at dawn, when I got far back, I was able to see two other soldiers; they were from the other group. I continued walking with them and we passed
through the Inkotanyi's camp; we passed there while they were cooking and they just saw us running. Therefore, they got hold of their guns and ran after us. We entered some trench that was
covered by long grass and laid there. One of the two soldiers got a grenade and said, " In case we hear them coming, I will explode this grenade and we shall all died together." Because they
had told us that when an Inkotanyi gets hold of you, he tortures you to death by cutting off your ears, your figures… slowly until you die.

J.de Dieu : Since I had no alternative, I agreed and we sat there. Fortunately they didn't see us and at night we left the place. We went and reached a place
called Mbogo where we found other soldiers of Habyarimana. They took us to Muhondo which is found in Shyorongi but it is in Zenga sector next to Ruhe towards Tare. At night they told us that we
were going to Shyorongi. They took us there and we camped just in front of where my grandpa used to live. We got there… I never thought they killed them. I just kept thinking they ought to be
there. They never … in my head I never thought they had died. Therefore, I decided to leave the camp and go there and when I reached my grandpa's house, I found only ruins; all houses had been
demolished, one couldn't tell which one was the bedroom. That day I went back and the whole day I was just thinking about the situation and I was so confused. The soldiers sent me to the
station where refugees were camping, to go and buy some food. When I reached there, I met all the other Interahamwe whom we were neighbours. But no one could tell me anything because I was in
the combat uniform shirt. Then I thought some of my family members would be there. I went round expecting to see them. They had asked me to hurry up, so I quickly went back and found a
roadblock set up by the Interahamwes, with a man who was supervising it. However, I don't remember his name but all I know his older brother was called Kanamugire; and Kanamugire is still
alive. That Interahamwe had a gun, then he asked me, "Aren't you ashamed of moving around yet we killed all your family? You will be the last one to be killed." He made me sit down at the
roadside. And then he hit my back with the gun's butt. I even went to hospital due to that injury and I am still suffering from it today.

J.de Dieu : Then… as I was still sitting at the roadside, a military lorry, which was taking water to the camp, came. They saw me sitting there; they asked
me why I was sitting there yet they had sent me a while ago. Then a certain soldier got out and told me to enter the car. That is how I escaped them. Then in the morning they came and said that
my whole family had died and that I was a Tutsi too; they were wondering why I joined the army. When they found out details about me, I escaped them and joined the refugees. When I reached
there… because I had refused to join the refugees whose origin was Shyorongi, I joined those from Byumba. When they started asking me where I was coming from, I told them that I was coming from
Byumba and that the Inkotanyis had killed both my parents using clubs. Some women liked me very much and treated me so well. Then I joined the refugees who were heading to Byumba.

The oral testimony of UWAMUNGU Jean de Dieu, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi,recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early
memories of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsi before Genocide, the worst atrocities during Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving the
Genocide, life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda, and English and French transcripts are available.