MetagameInheritance

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The event that released that move in question came with Extereme Speed, Thunderbolt, Brick Break, and Grass Knot, so there would be no way for it to have Volt Tackle with it since it would need to use a method that would not let it keep the move.

EDIT: The shiny part has nothing to do with it, as the event mon could be shiny.

I’ve had a lot of difficulty breaking past bulky defensive mons, so I came up with this Magearna set. Mean Look + Perish Song allows Magearna to 1v1 bulky mons including Suicune (Wooper), Celesteela (Emolga and Woobat), Magearna (Comfey), and Ferrothorn (Miltank). Roost is for recovery while the last slot is open. Night Shade allows you to hit u-turn and non-trap-able mons for a decent chunk. Taunt allows you to beak Chansey (Persian-Alola) and other parting shot pivot users while easing up trapping against some set-up users like Bellossom and Comfey inheritors. This set does have some major issues, inviting powerful wall breakers like Marowak Alola and Tapu Koko. Unfortunately, I forgot to save some replays, so I’ve only got one.

The event that released that move in question came with Extereme Speed, Thunderbolt, Brick Break, and Grass Knot, so there would be no way for it to have Volt Tackle with it since it would need to use a method that would not let it keep the move.

EDIT: The shiny part has nothing to do with it, as the event mon could be shiny.

unspecified destination

I've looked at this meta and have still seen no answer on suspects. It's clear that in the community there have been big demands on suspects because of complaints that stall or hyper offense are broken. I figured out a way to calm this in two suspects:

1) Suspect Sableye as a donor.

Sableye inheritors are very frustrating to break. They stop incoming setup, can cripple with Will-o-wisp, and have a move to stop Darks from breaking - Dazzling Gleam. Of course, not all Sableye users use this, but it's a significant enough concern that alternate users can apply it that makes it incredibly hard to break through stall through the likes of Mold Breaker setup when something like that should have an advantage. I'm sure a lot of players have had complaints about Chansey being broken; however, I have seen none of the alternate variants, and none are anywhere near as powerful as Prankster, because they do not have the movepool to actually cripple targets that wish to break it. A simple Fighting-type or strong physical attacker can get past Unaware Chansey; and strong boosters like Garchomp, Landorus-Therian and Tapu Koko can break Magic Bounce easily. This is also why imo, banning Chansey is not the right solution, because the role will most likely be shafted to another Pokemon like Magearna or Tapu Fini, which are equally as capable of outright shutting down attackers, and the role of Chansey as a special tank will most likely fall to a dragon or weather resist like Slowking!Goodra. Simply put, the infuriating counterleading and disruptive opportunities of Sableye as a donor make it insanely unhealthy for the meta as it stretches the matchups far toward stall.

2) Suspect Medichamite.
The issue then becomes trying to check this monster after stall and its niche mons have been given the boot. Not only is Lucario!Megacham broken and capable of sweeping from a single boost if a Ghost-type isn't used, or one of the niche mons like Mega Sableye or PersianA!Tapu Bulu / Mandibuzz are used to wall it. Those mons are quite tough to fit on a team; and the latter two have limited recovery. Doublade deserves a mention here too for hard countering any variant without Blaze Kick. However, for more offensive teams, counterplay like this is too much of a momentum loss and can let in other breakers like Gengar / Magearna / Tapu Koko smash your face. Thus, the only real way to beat Megacham on offense is to either use
1) Faster priority (Mega Pinsir, Comfey!Magearna)

The issue with this is that most of the counterplay here is vulnerable to pivoting from the commonly used checks to Lucariocham.

And then, I get onto alternate sets:

VictiniCham - unwallable except by FF Doublade or Intimidate Hippowdon, however, healthy due to a lack of an offensive matchup

MonfernoCham - more checks to priority but also hard to wall on stall due to +2 Flare Blitz OHKOing MSab with an 81.3% chance without Stealth Rock. Arguably one of the more broken sets.

ZygardeCham - Dragon Dance allows it to escape most of its checks, and Thousand Arrows gives it decent coverage to pair with either one of its STABs (or if a stall matchup is needed, you can drop ESpeed). Also one of the more broken sets, but its lack of setup opportunites prevents this one from being insanely busted.

Megacham gives too much pressure on balance builds due to its insanely hard to wall flagship and alternate sets, making it a very stressful mon to prepare for, alike Sableye. The matchups are stretched so far in favour of offense for Megacham that I would like Medichamite to be suspected next.

I hope action is made before ladder period ends. It would be a shame to have Inheritance be a broken meta at the end and have its high play count smothered by a lack of response.

Men say I taste like sugar but ain't shit sweet

Ok so after a lot of discussion with Pigeons we have both come to the conclusion that stall is still too potent in the current metagame and warrants another form of nerf due to how versatile and impactful it has become. While other suspects were brought into discussion as well, mainly being Mega Medicham and Magnet Pull, due to the lack of time we have to look at all potential options, we have decided to go pursue the most pressing issue in our opinions. That decision was to target defensive teams. There were many routes we considered to nerf stall, whether it be suspecting an inheritance of Sableye, suspecting one of the Unaware mons, or other options, however we both agreed that the best course of action would be to undergo a....

Chansey Suspect Test

Due to its infamous outstanding bulk and access to a plethora of amazing defensive abilities, namely being Prankster, Magic Bounce, Unaware, and even more niche options such as Fur Coat and Regenerator, Chansey is a standout defensive pick for the majority of Stall and Balance teams in the current metagame. While its most notably seen inheriting from Sableye due to it being able to spread priority burns, priority recovery, and abuse its high HP with Metal Burst, we still believe Chansey is a bigger issue as a whole compared to inheriting from Sableye due to its other sets still having a detrimental impact on the metagame. However, Chansey is not unbreakable, as common offensive threats such as Mega Medicham, SD Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and special attackers such as Heatran (once its Eviolite has been Knocked Off) can still cause a huge strain on Chansey's walling capabilities, although physical attackers must always be weary of burns from the Sableye set in retaliation however.

The suspect test will last up until June 30th 11:59 pm (GMT -4). There will be no suspect ladder, in order to achieve reqs, one requires:

An new alt with the tag "ICS" collated in it somewhere.

Reqs will be given to those who acheived a GXE of 77 with a minimum of 30 games.

Make sure to post your proof of reqs alongside what your vote will be, good luck to everyone!

Ok so after a lot of discussion with Pigeons we have both come to the conclusion that stall is still too potent in the current metagame and warrants another form of nerf due to how versatile and impactful it has become. While other suspects were brought into discussion as well, mainly being Mega Medicham and Magnet Pull, due to the lack of time we have to look at all potential options, we have decided to go pursue the most pressing issue in our opinions. That decision was to target defensive teams. There were many routes we considered to nerf stall, whether it be suspecting an inheritance of Sableye, suspecting one of the Unaware mons, or other options, however we both agreed that the best course of action would be to undergo a....

Chansey Suspect Test

Due to its infamous outstanding bulk and access to a plethora of amazing defensive abilities, namely being Prankster, Magic Bounce, Unaware, and even more niche options such as Fur Coat and Regenerator, Chansey is a standout defensive pick for the majority of Stall and Balance teams in the current metagame. While its most notably seen inheriting from Sableye due to it being able to spread priority burns, priority recovery, and abuse its high HP with Metal Burst, we still believe Chansey is a bigger issue as a whole compared to inheriting from Sableye due to its other sets still having a detrimental impact on the metagame. However, Chansey is not unbreakable, as common offensive threats such as Mega Medicham, SD Garchomp, Tapu Koko, and special attackers such as Heatran (once its Eviolite has been Knocked Off) can still cause a huge strain on Chansey's walling capabilities, although physical attackers must always be weary of burns from the Sableye set in retaliation however.

The suspect test will last up until June 30th 11:59 pm (GMT -4). There will be no suspect ladder, in order to achieve reqs, one requires:

An new alt with the tag "ICS" collated in it somewhere.

Reqs will be given to those who acheived a GXE of 77 with a minimum of 30 games.

Make sure to post your proof of reqs alongside what your vote will be, good luck to everyone!

Interesting suspect, however, a few things in which I have an issue with in this suspect. Mainly, that although chansey is a powerful stall member, I cannot see it being broken if it didnt have sableye as a donor. Im going to agree with chazmic here that Sableye was the better suspect, as a chansey ban will likely just see other stall members take up sableye as a donor, but no harm doing a suspect.

EDIT:

Okay looking through the meta, some things become painfully clear. First of all, I cannot see how banning chansey will balance out stall. Chansey, although it is the premier special tank in the meta, there are still going to be quick replacements for this mon. In fact, the core of pex and msableye itself is extremely broken, and I cant think of anymons which can break it

Shadow Ball at +1 priority ruins teams and stall is easily broken by sub w/ +2 shadowball. Just kill muk and it's free win. Offense is also easy. You have enough bulk to eat all the kecleon stuff and set up.

Utility Gyarados. Gyarados causes a lot of switches and plays a good pivot with U-turn. Defog if hazards are a concern (although they seem far less common than in most metagames), Nuzzle spreads status and breaks sturdy/sashes. A little speed outpaces base 100's if you catch a Motor Drive boost. Lum berry is kind of generic, but Gyarados attracts a lot of status and needs a consumable for Acrobatics.
Besides, didn't you always want an electric-immune Gyarados?

The "heir of Kecleon" slot is obviously hotly contested, but why not Regice? Regice has amazing stats but an awful typing, useless abilities, and lackluster movepool. Kecleon solves this, giving a powerful STAB boltbeam and Trick Room, for a great sweeper setup with Nasty Plot. Setting up both Trick Room and Nasty Plot isn't unrealistic thanks to Regice's titanic special bulk and adequate physical bulk. Trick Room on the switch can really upset a would-be counter, as they often cannot deal with what is now a psychic-type faster than them.

I think Rapidash is the best donor for a no-weakness Escavalier, as it's the only Flash Fire user that gets Megahorn. Could be used with Choice Band, but that seems wasteful of the great coverage this set has. Obviously it works best with Trick Room support.

Poison Heal lax is probably the better allrounder, but the possibility of base 160 HP Wishes is hard to ignore. This is pretty effective at stopping setup that isn't Ghost-type, since not much can 2HKO fully invested Unawarelax and Power-Up Punch will eventually break them. It can also pretty much full heal anything with those gigantic wishes.

Nobody expects the scarf Thundurus. Seriously. I can't even count how many first turn KOs I have against a Mawile (Tapu Koko) that's expecting to outspeed. Even when they have a Chansey switch-in to soak an easy hit. The coverage speaks for itself. Modest for extra hard hits. It's not really going to outspeed much more with Timid.

I really like the Celesteela + Suicune defensive core; they cover a lot of each other's weaknesses. Toxic stalling causes a huge pain for a lot of teams. They can take on a lot of common threats like unburden-Sceptile sets, most set up mons, most Lucario-inheriting Mega sets, I run Leftovers over Shed Shell on Celesteela because I've stopped running into Magnet Pull user, mainly Heatran, and Leftovers helps so much. But if Magnet Pull is giving you trouble, you can swap out the items. This core has a problem with Victini-inheriting sets (V-create + Fusion bolt hurts a lot), as well as Specs Torkoal (Chandelure) if rocks aren't up. Scarf Eruption/Solar Beam deals about half vs Suicune, so Recover/Protect can easily PP stall. Banded Inkay (Terrakion) can hurt a lot, and you may need to hope for a miss.

Speaking of Heatran, this set can soak up a Knock Off, trap Steel types, set up Stealth Rocks, and pivot with Volt Switch, all in one set. I like it a lot. I figured it doesn't really need speed since most steel users are slower, and you can potentially get (relatively) slow pivots if you want them against other mons. Feel free to set up Stealth Rocks before KOing a trapped steel type; most can't do anything back to you. Inferno Overdrive KOs most +1 Comfey (Magerna) sets. Even if it doesn't a follow-up Earth Power or Fire Blast should finish it off. I haven't run into any running HP Ground, but that would be a problem.

I love this Buzzwole set so much. It subs in front of pretty much and non-supereffective physical attacker and either removes an item, pivots to something else, or destroys at least 1 incoming mon. Don't be afraid to sub then U-turn immediately; Regenerator + Leftovers heals it up so much. This set can sub against a +1 Garchomp Devastating Drake (as long as it's full health) then hit back with a Focus Punch. And physical Kecleon-inheriting set is a joke to Buzzwole. Beware though, Kecleon sets can be mixed or special. 101HP subs for Night Shade/Seismic Toss users.

Medicham doesn't really see a ton of action since it doesn't have too many opportunities to set up. But when it does, it absoultely destroys teams. At that point you only lose to either priority or missing a move, which unfortunately happens more than I'd like. The Intimidate before mega evolving has pretty good utility.

The team doesn't really have an answer to priority, and the Mold Breaker + dd sets like the Haxorus (Garchomp) can be a huge headache, but it's pretty solid otherwise. Also, I don't know why, but I hate Mega-Venusaur vs this team. Mega-Medicham can deal with it easily, but that's about it to be honest. It's not the best team in the world, but it's mine and I like it. Overall, I like the OM a lot. I ran into a stall team with 5 Regenerator users and Chansey once; that was one of the worst experiences of my life. I almost won, but Buzzwole got burned by a Scald :(

Well that was the best OMOTM in a while. Got some fun sets that I figured I'd share.
Qwilfish (Gengar) @ focus sash
Ability:Intimidate
Evs: 4 Def/252 SpAtk/252Spe
Timid Nature
-Taunt
-Spikes
-Shadow Ball/ Toxic Spikes
-Sludge Wave/Toxic Spikes
Qwilfish is a great donor for Gengar. I ran taunt, spikes and dual stab as a suicide lead but intimidate is useful with toxic spikes if you want a more midgame oriented hazard setter. As a midgame setter, blocking rapid spin and defog with a ghost typing and taunt are pretty useful qualities too.
Accelgor(Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sticky Hold
Evs: 252 Hp/252 Def/ 4 SpDef
Or 4 Hp/252 Def/ 252 SpDef
Bold Nature
-Spikes/Toxic Spikes
-Toxic
-Recover
-Final Gambit
This looks incredibly gimmicky but honestly this thing put in serious work. With such easy access to spikes and rapid spin in this meta I found hazard stacking to be really useful and Chansey does what Ferrothorn does in Ou, comes in on something it walls and sets up spikes. Accelgor gave other useful attributes too. Reliable recovery is always nice and Sticky How was really useful as a Chansey can't afford to lose eviolite. Finally, Final Gambit is more useful than you'd think. Played correctly, I could remove one Pokemon from the opponents team that I otherwise struggled with, in particular mons that chose to set up I'm front of a Chansey that they presumed couldn't hurt them. A gimmick for sure, but an effective one.
Hitmontop(Lopunny) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Intimidate ---> Scrappy
Evs: 252 Atk/4 Def/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Fake Out/ Quick Attack
-Frustration
-Close Combat
-Rapid Spin
Continuing on with our theme of hazards and their removal, here we have Mega Lopunny with my patented Scrapid Spin™. Hitmontop let's you use a pretty much standard Mega Lopunny set except with CC over HJK (which I prefer but it gets HJK too) and crucially, Rapid Spin which allows it to be the only unblockable spinner. While this isn't the most significant of niches but it can do other things too. As a rapid spinner it is excellent, forcing switches with intimidate and the fact that Mega Lop threatens a lot of stuff for free spins. It also does what Mega Lop does in OU, destroying offensive teams without a favourable scarfer as little outspeeds it otherwise and acting as a great cleaner if you save it for the late game. Quick attack can be more useful than fake out but I was running toxic spikes with it and racking up some more poison damage was sometimes too important to pass up. Really useful set that merits the place it has in the VR.
Jirachi(Mawile) @ Mawilite
Ability: Serene Grace ---> Huge Power
Evs: 252Hp/252 Atk/4 Def
Ivs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
-Iron Head
-Play Rough
-Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Thunder Punch
-Trick Room
Trick room Mega Mawile is exactly as strong as you'd think it is. It has an easy time getting trick room up because there's not a whole lot that stays in on Mega Maw and then you've got four turns to wreak havoc. Jirachi gives it dual stab (shame meteor mash is illegal) and elemental punches for some nice coverage. No Swords dance makes it less of a wall breaker and it missed knock off but if you play your cards right this thing will blow a hole in your opponents team.
Golem A (Rotom H) @ Lum Berry/Choice Scarf/Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
Evs: 252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Earth Power
-Magnet Rise/ Volt Switch
A thoroughly obvious but still effective mon with two sets, both of which do one thing: kill Celesteela. Stopping other steel types is a nice boon too but I can't stand normal Celesteela anyway so it's prominence in this meta quickly got on my nerves. It's dual stabs means that even if it's got an ability that makes it immune to one of them, you can still kill it. Earth power is useful against other steel types that may be running an immunity ability like flash fire that you couldn't hit as well otherwise and also Rock/Ground types I guess. Lum Berry helps with sleep powder from Vivillon variants of Celesteela and in conjunction with an immunity to burns and paralysis make it a good status sponge. Air Balloon and/or magnet rise helps with it's ground weakness (which is more useful in other matchups but helpful nonetheless) Choice scarf makes it a better Pokemon outside of it's role as a steel trapper as I found it to be lacking otherwise. Freely accessible magnet pull means a lot of teams don't bother with steel types and I found the scarf version to be less of a dead weight against those teams.

the last two moves are up for grabs. Reuniclus has a surprisingly good physical movepool. I used fire punch (cause I had sun so might as well) and Knock Off (clicked it maybe once,) but take your pick of Trick Room / Explosion / Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Rock Slide / Facade /...

EVs + nature are so it lives Pinsir-M Close Combat except for max roll.

pidge pidge

With Inheritance up for OMotM voting once again, Funbot28 and I felt like we should address some unfinished business from the last time Inheritance was OMotM. First of all, I'd like to apologize for my own inactivity towards the end of the month, as well as our general inability to get settled on a suspect. Hopefully we can fix some of that in the coming weeks but I realize the last OMotM run would've been a lot more successful if we had stepped up more.

Regarding the Chansey suspect, we still intend to follow through with it as both Funbot and I both think it's a bigger issue with regards to stall than Sableye is as a donor alone (as outlined in the original suspect post). That said, we don't intend to ban Chansey based on a suspect test that only got one vote, so we've devised a solution. Over the next week, we will be running Inheritance suspect tours on the ROM server in which the winner and runner-up will receive reqs to vote in the Chansey suspect. The schedule for these tournaments is as follows:

These tours will be announced in the Other Metagames room before they start, signups will run for 10 minutes. The winner and runner-up will get voting reqs unless they have already obtained them.

After the Chansey suspect, we'll see if we can devise a path for future bans or suspects based on community feedback. We'll try our best to be as responsive as we can to what you guys think, even if our options are somewhat limited without a ladder and towards the end of the gen. Again, my apologies for not being as engaged last time Inheritance was OMotM, hopefully this will move us in the right direction.

tl;dr Chansey suspect is still ongoing, you can earn reqs via suspect tours on ROM.

Ok so after listening to some feedback and from general internal discussion between me and Pigeons, we decided that Magnet Pull would be the first thing we would like to address.

This was decided due to the potency of offensive cores such as Heatran + Tapu Koko inheriting from Alolan-Golem and Mawile respectively, where Heatran can be used to neutralize checks to Tapu Koko such as Flash Fire Ferrothorn and Motor Drive Celesteela. From there, threats such as the aforementioned Tapu Koko and others such as Mega Gardevoir, Mega Mawile, and even other notable wallbreakers such as Garchomp can usually clean lategame as their biggest checks have been taken out. Of course counterplay is most commonly seen through the use of Shed Shell, however this is usually counteracted by teams using Magnet Pull strategies in order to secure a Wincon thanks to the utility from Knock Off from severable viable users such as Alolan Muk and Toxapex inheriting from Emolga most notably.

With this in mind we feel that Magnet Pull may have a negative effect on a metagame already filled to the brim with terrifying wallbreakers, and thus we would like to see others opinions as to whether or not action should be in place to ban Magnet Pull as a whole.

We would also like to see discussion on whether or not Stall is still too potent in the current metagame even after the Murkrow ban. This is due to the style having an amazing matchup against most other playstyles due to combination of anti setup, hazard removal, and general tankiness the playstyle has with many viable inheriting options. The main target Pidgeons and I were discussing was a potential Chansey or Sableye Inheritance ban, but we are open to any other suggestions, if there is any action that needs to take place at that.

Was wondering if this is still on the radar, steels are a common glue on already struggling playstyle (thanks to cress, mukrow and soon chansey being banned) and trapping in general being uncompetitive asf

Im not gonna argue much with chazms anti ban argument cause he argues that magnet pull "doesnt even trap the good steels in the metagame" despite having so many different choices to fit your team thanks to the great electric, fighting, ground, fire coverage from golem which gives u tons of freedom when building ur magnet puller.

This isnt ou anymore where we have shitty magnezone and golem alola only. Whats stopping people from running magnet pull infernape, thundurus, or terrakion? Which are all very consistent at removing steels?

Also using shed shell on every steel is pretty dumb because leftovers recovery is crucial on some steels to not get 2hkod and still not foolproof thanks to ez knock off + magnet pull cores

Wondering whats your thoughts abt this

Also when the hell is medicham gonna be brought up for discussion? Is it not on the radar at all?

once upon a time won't last forever

I didn't play a ton of Inheritance before this suspect tour but the tour made it very clear to me that Chansey is insanely strong and should be banned. It is insanely potent with Torn-T as a donor, getting Regenerator + U-Turn and Knock Off, and it enables stall to a disgusting degree.