I decided to do some site-seeing yesterday instead of fishing. Ms. Annie and I drove up to Newfound Gap to see if there was still snow on the ground. I pulled into the big parking lot overlooking NC side of the park, shut the engine off and hit the door unlocks thinking Ms. Annie might want to stretch her legs after all the riding. Before getting out and still seated behind the wheel I grabbed my camera bag and was digging around for my little point-and-shoot when the passenger side door opened!

Now Ms. Annie is a smart dog but she hasn't yet figured out how to open a car door. Besides, she was in the back seat and the front door was opening! I looked up about the same time she starts growling to see this guy start to climb into the car. He had one leg in and was about to ease his rear end into the seat when Ms. Annie goes into full blown attack mode and starts over the console after him. Meanwhile I am reaching for Mr. Kimber in the door pocket thinking if she doesn't stop him I will. I think she stopped him because I never got the gun out of the door before he starts backing out of the car and apologizing something about "Sorry dude, wrong car."

He walked away but never got into another car. My vehicle is a silver SUV; the only other silver vehicle in the lot is a minivan a good 60-70 feet away, in the opposite direction he walked! Young guy, mid twenties, stocky with a black beard. No one was walking with him. I was parked away from other vehicles near grass for the dog to relieve herself on. A few people around but not near me.

Hmmm ... a total moron or a car jacker looking for an easy target in a remote place. I'm convinced he didn't see the dog (tinted windows) until he started in. She's 70 pounds, has big white teeth and was showing most of them to him.

Be careful out there folks. This one caught me totally by surprise. Lesson learned; never unlock the doors until you are ready to get out!

ChemEAngler

02-24-2011, 11:59 PM

Very strange indeed! Crazy times, and crazy people out there.

Knik

02-25-2011, 12:09 AM

Weird people out there for sure, ya never know what people are thinking....... or if they even are.

Thumbs up for Ms. Annie!!! Sure glad you had her with you.

How much snow is left up there by the way?

Bran

02-25-2011, 08:42 AM

What a great thing you had her with you. That is definately strange but just confirms the crazy world we live in.

old east tn boy

02-25-2011, 08:51 AM

No snow at all in the parking area but about a mile up the AT the trail had quite a bit in shady spots. Trail itself was pretty slick in spots from packed snow due to foot traffic.

MadisonBoats

02-25-2011, 09:50 AM

I decided to do some site-seeing yesterday instead of fishing. Ms. Annie and I drove up to Newfound Gap to see if there was still snow on the ground. I pulled into the big parking lot overlooking NC side of the park, shut the engine off and hit the door unlocks thinking Ms. Annie might want to stretch her legs after all the riding. Before getting out and still seated behind the wheel I grabbed my camera bag and was digging around for my little point-and-shoot when the passenger side door opened!

Now Ms. Annie is a smart dog but she hasn't yet figured out how to open a car door. Besides, she was in the back seat and the front door was opening! I looked up about the same time she starts growling to see this guy start to climb into the car. He had one leg in and was about to ease his rear end into the seat when Ms. Annie goes into full blown attack mode and starts over the console after him. Meanwhile I am reaching for Mr. Kimber in the door pocket thinking if she doesn't stop him I will. I think she stopped him because I never got the gun out of the door before he starts backing out of the car and apologizing something about "Sorry dude, wrong car."

He walked away but never got into another car. My vehicle is a silver SUV; the only other silver vehicle in the lot is a minivan a good 60-70 feet away, in the opposite direction he walked! Young guy, mid twenties, stocky with a black beard. No one was walking with him. I was parked away from other vehicles near grass for the dog to relieve herself on. A few people around but not near me.

Hmmm ... a total moron or a car jacker looking for an easy target in a remote place. I'm convinced he didn't see the dog (tinted windows) until he started in. She's 70 pounds, has big white teeth and was showing most of them to him.

Be careful out there folks. This one caught me totally by surprise. Lesson learned; never unlock the doors until you are ready to get out!

Wow! That is very unnerving! Did you report it to the rangers or the police? If not; it may be worth making a report now. I would assume there was something odd in his intentions for such a brazen episode! Glad your dog was with you and took care of you as well!:smile: I believe I would had shown the pistol in a neutral stance and asked that he stay until you could discuss it with authorities. - I say this in hindsight. I just want to help stop and catch these people.

Glad you took the time to share this story and to remind others of these situations! I am very glad you are ok. I wonder if he tried it again later...?

Corbo

02-25-2011, 09:51 AM

My lab would have licked the guy on his neck; if I left him in the truck with keys he would drive off with anyone on the hope that a McDonalds was in his future.

Mr. Kimber is a friend of mine as well, extremely reliable and always handy.

I think that it would have been good to watch the guy for a while so he didn't victimize someone less prepared.

Don't blame you for not messing up the interior of your vehicle or putting a red stain on the Park.

Hoosier

02-25-2011, 10:03 AM

Hope you reported with description to the Park LE Rangers. If not please do. Maybe innocent enough, maybe not. I am sure they could keep an eye out for such a person with your good description.

My lab as well would have lifted her right paw to shake with him.

jross

02-25-2011, 10:46 AM

Something like this, but way less dangerous happened to me this winter.

In my neck of the woods the amish are driven around by "English" van drivers. I was sitting at a pharmacy waiting and at the end of the parking lot was a van waiting. Out walks an Amish man, opens my door, and climbs in! I look over and say "hi". He had a startled looked then began laughing. I wasn't worried at all..... same story but different characters. my encounter was a comedy...your's was not.

Do you think he was just "not too bright" or was did he have malicious intent? Glad you and your dog are ok.... he coulda been a thug, yet I'm glad he didn't get shot. I don't think you'd want to deal with that either.

Trico

02-25-2011, 11:30 AM

It is a sad state of affairs when you can't go sight seeing without watching your back! Back in the 1980's my wife and I use to hunt Montana and camp on a couple of ranches. One night at about 3:00 AM I heard someone and grabbed my S&W M19. Two escapees from a correctional facility in South Dakota were going to steal my truck. I "talked" them out of it and went to the ranch house with them and got in touch with local authorities. It sounds like Ms. Annie is a great companion and having Mr. Kimber doesn't hurt either! Be safe!

No Hackle

02-25-2011, 11:45 AM

Full moon has for sure been extended this month. We always have loons in the store around the full moon but this month has been above average. Still be careful out there, wish the dog would have bit him in the arse. Maybe next time he'll make sure he has the " right " vehicle.
Lynn

whitefeather

02-25-2011, 01:22 PM

Glad you and your dog made it through this without harm. I agree with others that it should be reported, to protect any possible future victims.

You can never know when something like this happens whether it's just an innocent mistake or a well rehearsed ploy to a hijacking or worse. It is known that our NPS has a criminal element that grows and manufacture drugs(meth) in some areas. There have been murders on the AT. This is why I carry my 1911A1 with me when in the park. No expectation of police protection, especially in the wild.

My yellow lab would have taken the guys face off, as he was trained to guard my tractor trailer and attack upon any attempted intrusion. My black lab would have licked him and begged for a "treat."

Crockett

02-25-2011, 02:13 PM

Thanks for the info on this made me re-think where I keep my Bersa Thunder (glovebox) and possibly moving it a bit closer to me in the driver door or elsewhere. You never know where someone will appear I always kind of assumed they would try to get to me through the driver door and I would move deeper into the passenger side whilst retrieving the Bersa.

Newfound Gap does seem like an odd spot for carjackings though. Seems weird that criminals would go that far when there are thousands of easy targets much closer by in town. I tend to think it probably was a mistake but luckily you were ready and didn't have to find out for sure. I wonder how many carjackings happen in the Smokies each year? Probably not too many in Cades Cove cause of the lack of a fast getaway.

Barbara

02-25-2011, 09:03 PM

And I have been wandering thru the woods worried about bears, wild hogs, and snakes.......:eek: Do you think the guys was high on something?

Corbo

02-25-2011, 09:19 PM

Only problem with Mr. Kimber is that if he's with you when you wade fish he might help sink you to the bottom if you slip and fall.... maybe I need a Mr. Kel-Tec?

501

02-26-2011, 12:00 AM

Regarding the intruder, I tend to think it might have been an error. Consider the totality of circumstances........this is too weird. To all of you who carry part time, full time and all the time remember this. To absolutely be prepared you must absolutely carry all the time without exception. This means on your person ready for business. The one time you get lax about it could cost you everything. I know this is harsh and out of the realm of casual. But think about it anyway. The life you save....................

Lee

old east tn boy

02-26-2011, 10:46 AM

After another day of thinking this one over I still can't decide if it was a mistake or intentional. He was pretty casual about it, no big laugh or embarrassed apology like most of us would react with. It was as if this happens all the time and oh well, no big deal. As someone has suggested, he might have been a little bit high? Walked away pretty straight though. But this one sure has bothered me.

I need to restrain Ms. Annie inside the vehicle some way while we travel. Roaming free in the back is simply not safe for her or passengers. However, had she been restrained she could not have gotten to this guy. What to do?

I didn't deploy Mr. Kimber fast enough. I'm right handed, gun was on my left. I am going to relocate it on my right and closer at hand.

I could have done a better job of noticing my surroundings but you can't watch everything all of the time. As someone has posted, you go to the park to relax, not be nervous and suspicious of everybody walking near you.

I will be back in the park early next week and will stop at the Sugarlands visitor center to report this. I'll post their response after I talk with them.

jeffnles1

02-26-2011, 09:47 PM

I didn't deploy Mr. Kimber fast enough. I'm right handed, gun was on my left. I am going to relocate it on my right and closer at hand.

Regarding where to keep Mr. Kimber, one thing I would highly recommend is weak hand pracice. You should be just as comfortable shooting with your left hand as with your right, especially at across the car distances.

Now, if you're doing fine target work of course, you'll most likely be better shooting with your dominant hand and eye (are you also righ eyed?). However, for close up encounters, please take time in the coming months to get to the point where it doesn't matter which hand Mr. Kimber is in.

One of my buddies is a state trooper and he told me that of the self-defense shootings he's known about (very few by the way) they were so close that the firearm was either in contact with the bad guy when the trigger was pulled or the muzzle was inches away from the bad guy.

What I'm getting at is target accuracy isn't as big of a concern as just squeezing off a couple rounds and at those ranges it shouldn't matter which hand the firearm is in.

Also, range time is almost as relaxing as fishing.

Jeff

whitefeather

02-27-2011, 12:02 AM

Jeff, old east tn boy,

Some excellent advice you posted Jeff! But there is a slight bug-a-boo you forgot to mention.

I don't know about Kimbers (sweet guns) or how they eject, but with my 1911A1 US Army .45, shooting left handed, straight on at a target will sometimes get you a hot "smokestack" coming back toward your face, as will a lot of autos, shot left handed.

Firing it "across" your body at a ninety degree angle to the other side of the car with the left hand might be worse. Never had to actually to touch one off. The muzzle of a .45 looks like an oil drum when it's pointed at you and unless someone is "high" they will back off in a hurry, as did one clown that tried to jump in my car at a red light back years ago!

I'm right handed, but back in my younger days I shot better groups at 50 feet with my left hand than with my right. There was that occasionally smoke stack to contend with and it led to a flinching movement after I got the first hot one in the face. Ouch!

But in a emergency situation the possibility of a left hand eject to the face is far outweighed by the benefit of protecting yourself.

My uncle (retired policeman of 37 yrs.) told me that I if I as going to carry a gun, I should eat with it, sleep with it, breathe with it, etc. In other words do everything with it and keep it close at all times, night and day. He said if you do that and always have it with you, you won't be grabbing at thin air when you really need it and get yourself killed. I took his advice!

I have had to draw down on four different occasions in over forty years of carrying. The guy I mentioned earlier, once on a lone mugger, once on a trio of muggers, and once on two drug crazed guys high on dope in a parked car at a gas station, the police thought they were getting ready to rob. Instead they bolted when I drew my weapon, peeled out in their car, and slammed head on into the front of a state police cruiser that was coming into the station, as they were trying to get out. The passsenger (who was a wanted felon) in the front seat of the gold firebird had his hand on a pistol (illegal), but was knocked silly by the impact of his head to the windshield.

I held them at gunpoint while the officer pulled himself out of the cruiser, slightly injured, but expectedly shook up. He called for backup and when they arrived, I gave them my statement and got the **** out of there.

You just never know about these things and if you're still alive to wonder about it, then thank the grace of God and the presence of Mr. Kimber, or Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson, or whoever you choose to be at your side.

Corbo

02-27-2011, 10:02 AM

Well....

I suppose the real message we all should take from this account is to PRACTICE SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!

While I loathe traveling through this world suspicious of everyone, everywhere and all the time... the fact is that we all must be at both a state of readiness and awareness of potential threats.

Several years ago I was the victim of a violent crime; my pistol was in my truck but I was on a sidewalk with my family on Halloween. I didn't know that someone was planning to do me harm.... even if I had been armed it would have made no difference as I was rendered unconscious from behind.

Now I try to practice situational awareness as a normal part of my lifestyle. Only you can watch your own back.

jeffnles1

02-27-2011, 07:52 PM

but with my 1911A1 US Army .45, shooting left handed, straight on at a target will sometimes get you a hot "smokestack" coming back toward your face, as will a lot of autos, shot left handed.

Yep, been there / done that. Takes a few times to get used to it and get over the flinch. It's one reason why I carry a revolver 90% of the time. I figure if I can't stop whatever is about to happen with 5 rounds, an extra 3 (assuming one in the pipe) with a 45 isn't going to make a whole lot of difference.

It's all about what you're comfortable with. I'm totally comfortable with a DA revolver. I have a great deal of confidence that my revolver is going to go bang not only the first time but the second (3, 4 and 5 if needed) times I pull the trigger.

While it is quite rare with a good firearm and decent ammo, I have still seen a few semi autos stovepipe. In my Ruger P90, I can most likely count on one hand with fingers left over the times it has happened (with well over 10,000 rounds through this gun) but if my life depended on the second shot I wouldn't want that to be the time it happened.

Revolvers actions are a bit more delicate but if well cared for and well set up, in over 35 years being involved in shooting sports, I can't recall any revolver (other than ones with mechanical problems) failing to go bang on the second shot.

Nothing against autos, I own a couple of them but I find myself picking up the DA revolver most of the time.

Let's all just keep up the positive thoughts that none of us will ever have to use one.

Jeff

fishndoc

02-27-2011, 08:48 PM

I usually engage in a lot of thinking/introspection/daydreaming when I'm out walking thru the woods, and I can recall at least a couple of times I've walked up to the wrong vehicle --- after reading how many are packing heat, I'm gonna try to be a little more observant before I open "my" truck door.
:smile:

Owl

03-01-2011, 02:36 PM

The reason I never leave home without Mr. Glock .40

Annie might have gotten to him, but if he was on meth or some other drug it's doubtful that it would have stopped him. Mr. Kimber though. Another story.

Proof that National Parks are not "safe zones" any more than any other place in the world these days. Glad you are ok. I'd report him to the Park Service asap - the life you save may be someone else's. And some questioned why we needed to allow carry in the Park. Well, there you go folks. This is exactly why. If the intruder had been up to no good and had a knife or gun, and our fellow fisherman unarmed the outcome could have been alot different....and despite the cries of "blood in the trails" the only thing that has changed is that responsible gun owners now have the ability to defend themselves in the Park. Well, that and we got a little piece of the 2A Rights back.

PS - I aspire to some day own a Kimber. Nice choice in a sidearm, man. I suggest though that instead of just moving it closer to your right hand, that you actually keep it on your person though if you're legally able to do so and make sure you're trained up in drawing it - in addition to firing it. That way you don't have to reach for it further than your hip when a BG threatens to do you harm.

flyman

03-01-2011, 04:15 PM

Hard to say, but I don't think he meant you any harm. If he had, he would have probably shown his hand when he opened the door. Even if I had of been armed I probably would not have shot him unless I had to. My wallet or a car aren't worth a life, or maybe both of our lives. All you pistol packing cowboys that think you are in a Dirty Harry movie need to experience a shoot out or fire fight one time, most of you just have no idea what's it's like to take someone's life. Guy was probably just some dummy on vacation that had a couple too many, or heaven forbid gotten high on something.

jross

03-01-2011, 04:51 PM

Flyman you've taken the unpopular side....but I'm leaning a bit to your side.

Philosophically speaking (as a Christian) I would hate to kill a person. I'm not talking about legality of the issue. Just purely from a spiritual/philosophical view point.

I would hate to walk up to someone on the creek bank just to chat and see them reach for their piece!

to casually discuss killing someone....:eek:

whitefeather

03-01-2011, 07:40 PM

No victim of a violent crime ever had the luxury of "rethinking" his attackers intentions. They all say the same thing. They were pretty much totally surprised and mentally overwhelmed by a seemingly innocent situation. And guess what, the bad guy always plans it that way. He knows the odds are in his favor, easy pickin's!

I for one, absolutely and unequivocally, refuse to be a victim of crime because of the soft, squishy thinking of some people, who think they know how the world turns, but don't. Wishful thinking in one hand and a whole lot of nasty in the other hand, which one fills up first? Accepting being a victim is unthinkable! Preparedness is the best first defense there is. It's not just required, it's demanded!

As for being a cowboy, I do not consider taking the responsibility for my own safety and the safety of my family or friends lightly, as has been portrayed by a poorly illustrated, in bad taste comparison with a work of fiction. I have been to the well and it ran deep with the blood of many casualties.

As for someone thinking I am being a cowboy, how nice it is to sit back and ponder all these bulls#@t liberal philosophies, while men of substance are in the trenches daily, risking their lives trying to defend your right to do just that.

I know what it likes to be shot at by someone, as well as an attempted bayoneting, bludgeoning with a rifle butt, and hopefully (by the enemy) left for dead. But it didn't work out that way for him (sorry about that) and he was the one that dropped, many, many, times.

I know how long it takes to recover your hearing when a "claymore" goes off so close to you, to keep from being overrun by blood thirsty savages.

As General George Patton once told his troops, before a big battle, "It's not your duty to die for your country, it's your duty to see that the enemy dies for his country!"

Paraphrasing the general, I say, "It's not your duty as an free American citizen to accept a certain level of danger from crime, it is your duty to see that crime has a level of danger attached to, and directed at it, that will serve as a serious deterrent to the perpetrators, to make them think twice about their intended deeds.

As a Christian, it is my solemn duty and moral obligation to myself and family to appreciate and protect the life (lives) that the Lord has blessed us with. To shirk that obligation, would be a sin I could not forgive myself of. Even if that means a criminal has to die to protect my own safety.

Praise God, my conscience is clear! Praise God I am alive!

GrouseMan77

03-01-2011, 10:00 PM

I need to restrain Ms. Annie inside the vehicle some way while we travel. Roaming free in the back is simply not safe for her or passengers. However, had she been restrained she could not have gotten to this guy. What to do?

I'm not interesting in commenting on the gun issue. OETB, get a crate to put in your vehicle. It will likely help keep her safe if your ever in an accident.

flyman

03-01-2011, 10:06 PM

I understand both sides, and I respect each individuals right to choose the course of action they would take in this situation. I respect each and every one of your opinions, but I'd like you to understand that I'm far from liberal, I've been in the trench, I paid my dues as a Hospital Corpsman with the 2nd Marine Division, in the IV Corps region of Vietnam in 1970.

My use of the term cowboy and Dirty Harry was probably a poor choice of words, and I can see how it would be objectionable to some. If anyone found that offensive, please accept my apology. My choices and options may appear weak or indecisive to some, I simply believe me killing someone over a car, or over some small about of money that I might be carrying just not worth it at this point in my life.

Just to be clear, make no mistake that if my life or my family's safety was in question, someone else's family would be doing some slow driving and some sweet singing. I learned a long time ago to never mistake restrain as weakness for fear. BTW, keep your doors locked from the time you get into the vehicle until you exit would be a good deterrent.

501

03-01-2011, 11:24 PM

"Dirty" Harry Callahan always gets the bad review. I've even heard police psychologists refer to him as a syndrome. Remember it is a fictional story. If one seriously watches the movies and analyses each fatal shooting Harry is involved in it becomes evident that he is on the right side. He even makes his own case "nothing wrong with shooting as long the right people get shot." This is fiction and for entertainment purposes only. I too have been shot at (and hit too). My bacon has been saved by a handgun before. Still we live in a society that at least partially condones giving the other fellow the "first break". By this I mean we should use great restraint on our trigger fingers. While this may be necessary I can't help but get the feeling (from some of these posts) that shoot first and ask questions later may have been considered. Taking a life is a serious thing and not to be viewed lightly.

Lee

2weightfavorite

03-02-2011, 08:28 AM

I knnow what you are all thinking....Did i shoot 5 times or did I shoot 6...in all actuallity it was more like 14 times!!:eek: But its a movie...so do you feel lucky?

Bran

03-02-2011, 08:55 AM

So much for Fly Fishermen being the cigar and single malt scotch crowd!http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Corbo

03-02-2011, 09:07 AM

Thank you Whitefeather

Crockett

03-02-2011, 09:55 AM

I think that most of the statements on here like “Mr. Kimber was ready” which may sound like bravado are probably more of an expression of nervousness. I don’t think anyone on here wants to be attacked just so they can be dirty harry. I think saying things like “I had Mr. Kimber ready” is more of a way of calming yourself in a very uncertain world. Giving yourself some sort of resolve. Surely no one knows what would happen if they were attacked even if they have been under fire before and no one wishes for that because when it comes down to it as you said flyman even with Mr. Kimber you may just freeze up this time and it’s over. The Mr. Kimber talk is just another way of dealing with that uncertainty I think.

jross

03-02-2011, 10:02 AM

the thing about this issue of guns and vicitmization must be something deeper

My dad, my father in law, uncles, some of my friends, my wife's grandpa (was in it thick in the Battle of the Bulge) are all vets....And I recall none of them conceal and carriers. (some don't own guns!)

My dad was an MP during VietNam, so I know he understands sidearms and conflict....but he never owned a handgun and obviously never carried. So likewise I never had a desire to either.

Be aware of your surroundings, lock your doors, etc. and have a dog with you!

Ky Tim

03-02-2011, 02:01 PM

the thing about this issue of guns and vicitmization must be something deeper

My dad, my father in law, uncles, some of my friends, my wife's grandpa (was in it thick in the Battle of the Bulge) are all vets....And I recall none of them conceal and carriers. (some don't own guns!)

My dad was an MP during VietNam, so I know he understands sidearms and conflict....but he never owned a handgun and obviously never carried. So likewise I never had a desire to either.

Be aware of your surroundings, lock your doors, etc. and have a dog with you!

I don't see how it could have any deeper meaning than people wanting to protect themselves should the situation arise.

I am also confused about your example of your family and friends not carrying. That seems to be a pretty small population sample. Nearly every combat vet I know with the exception of my dad carry all the time.

jross

03-02-2011, 03:44 PM

This is a forum on fly fishing in the Smokies and I don't want this thread spiralling somewhere it shouldn't, yet I will answer the question KY Tim.

Your sphere of friends and family is likely as small as mine.

I was stating that past circumstances, military service, religious views, or political views doesn't have much to do with who wants to carry or not carry.

It's deeper than that! I don't trust mankind! But I don't feel the need to carry a sidearm for protection from thugs. Others feel the same I do and others do not.

I don't believe that carrying a gun will undoubtably keep me and mine from danger.

Knothead

03-02-2011, 04:15 PM

I didn't deploy Mr. Kimber fast enough. I'm right handed, gun was on my left. I am going to relocate it on my right and closer at hand.
OETB, learn to shoot both sides. It's easy. No big deal at that range you are looking at. If you have Mr. Kimber on the right side, you are too close to your adversary. Just make sure that he was armed or you might have to answer a lot of questions.

Corbo

03-02-2011, 06:12 PM

Owning or carrying a firearm will not prevent you from being the target of a person who intends to rob you or do you harm.

What a firearm can do is prevent you or someone else from a serious injury or death..... either by show of force or pulling the trigger.

There is no "bravado" when referring to "Mr. Kimber" .... the whole "MR" thing goes back to Smith & Wesson Colt... Funny how nobody refers to "Mr. Beretta" LOL Maybe because he's ilalian not American.

As mentioned previously I was the victim of crime; I have a permanent "impairment" and to this day my wife wishes she had been carrying that night.

I would hope that none of you ever go through what happened to me.

A while back, November, I was at Nance's Ferry one morning when a couple guys showed up... I was not armed but they sure did a good job "looking scary" and intimidating, fortunately I was next to my vehicle and made a hasty departure.

When you can "flee" a potential threat that is always the best option... when you cannot you had better be prepared for a beating or making it clear you can take care of business and have the resolve necessary.

buzzmcmanus

03-02-2011, 07:52 PM

I ain't afraid to say it. Dances with Trout made a fishing report (sorry to drag you into this), and it had exactly 1 response at this time. However, a "guns in the park" topic comes up and it's currently on page 4!!! Do any of you guys actually fish, or do you just sit around the house, playing on the internet, polishing your guns? Guns ARE legal in the park. Carry if you want. This is a fishing forum, maybe we should pay more attention to it. Lots of us are tired of this subject.

old east tn boy

03-02-2011, 10:05 PM

Buzz, since I started this thread I feel compelled to respond to your criticism of the topic.

My intention was not a "guns in the park" discussion; it is about what happened to me last week and what I wanted others to know since we all go into the park pretty often to fish and thus the same thing might happen to you. I wanted to share this so others might think about this possibly happening to them and how they might react to it. Reading what others have said allows me to reevaluate my thinking and actions and be better prepared should something like this ever happen again. Perhaps others feel as I do and that is why there has been 4 pages of response.

buzzmcmanus

03-02-2011, 10:20 PM

old east tn boy, My original post was not directed at your post. I'm glad you brought this specific situation up. Somebody climbing into your vehicle is a pretty serious situation that others need to be aware of. I may or may not carry myself. What concerns me is that this is a fishing website that many of us used to participate on with regular fishing reports. It saddens me that "guns in the park" threads get more attention than actual fishing reports in a forum titled "Smoky Mountain Fishing".

Isn't this what it's about?
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u51/buzzmcmanus/Fishing/DSCN8173.jpg

Hard to say, but I don't think he meant you any harm. If he had, he would have probably shown his hand when he opened the door. Even if I had of been armed I probably would not have shot him unless I had to. My wallet or a car aren't worth a life, or maybe both of our lives. All you pistol packing cowboys that think you are in a Dirty Harry movie need to experience a shoot out or fire fight one time, most of you just have no idea what's it's like to take someone's life. Guy was probably just some dummy on vacation that had a couple too many, or heaven forbid gotten high on something.

Flyman,
Couldn't agree more. However, carrying a firearm does not make one a cowboy. If someone were trying to do me harm, yes, I can and will shoot. Would most likely regret it the rest of my life, but at least I would have a rest of my life to regret it. I wouldn't shoot some poor joe just because he got in my car and I sure wouldn't shoot him over trying to steal stuff out of my car, but if he were trying to harm me or someone in my family, well then, I'd do what I had to do.

Not a cowboy at all. In fact, I'm a rather peaceful sort. Just a rather peaceful sort who would prefer to live to fish another day.

Jeff

Corbo

03-03-2011, 07:59 AM

The old saying... "nobody likes the cops until they need one"

Any and all of us are subject to violent attack by strangers.... if we knew exactly when & where we "cowboys" would stay home that day.

If I saw a person being assaulted I would intervene whether or not I had a firearm; I don't need a gun to be brave but I'm no longer physically capable of taking on younger doped up guys after five back surgeries...

The armed civilian is technically a "force multiplier" in that the criminal element must always wonder "Does he have a gun?"

Unfortunate many women do not carry and therefore the criminal element feels more secure violating women and children... in most states it's totally legal to shoot someone who is injuring another person.

The victim will thank you.

whitefeather

03-04-2011, 01:02 PM

Buzz,

If I lived down in Maryville I would not even have time to post here! LOL! :biggrin:. I'd be fishing. So I hope you'll cut me a little slack as I've still got cabin fever, but April's coming soon!

Just last week, I was talking to my wife via 2 meter amateur radio on her way home from work and a fella from Maryville, TN (driving I-65) broke into the conversation looking for some advice on an exit to meet up with other family members coming from Indianapolis.

When he told me he was from Maryville, I asked him if he knew about this forum. He acknowledged in the affirmative. We talked a bit about the area around Maryville and I got him headed towards a restaurant and rest area where he could meet his family members. Nice gentleman! I've got his call FCC callsign and will look him up next time I'm down in TN.

Let's go fishing, Buzz! You go on ahead, don't wait for me! Warn them I'm coming and I'll be down in April! LOL

P.S. Nice pics! Keep 'em coming!

Crockett

03-04-2011, 01:09 PM

Hey Whitefeather cool story! I am a Ham radio operator KF4EIX and live in Maryville too. Next time you are coming down here we should do a 2 meter QSO. I am not very active mostly just monitor. Used to do cw a lot on hf bands but don't have a dipole up right now. (Sorry Buzz for talking about ham radio on the fishing forum)

whitefeather

03-04-2011, 04:43 PM

Hey Whitefeather cool story! I am a Ham radio operator KF4EIX and live in Maryville too. Next time you are coming down here we should do a 2 meter QSO. I am not very active mostly just monitor. Used to do cw a lot on hf bands but don't have a dipole up right now. (Sorry Buzz for talking about ham radio on the fishing forum. I did fish this past weekend hope that makes up for it!)

Crockett,

Nice to meet a fellow ham as well as a fly fisherman on the forum!

The wife and I use 2 meter when I'm out fishing in the park. Cherokee has a pretty good repeater at 145.110 on that big hill that overlooks 441 and 19 intersection. I haven't ever heard anyone on it though. We pretty much have the airwaves to ourselves.

I have an all band, remote control rig for the travel trailer and a portable 2 meter/440 antenna that I mount on the roof, along with a HF setup.

A couple of years ago I was talking to a gentleman in Milan, Italy (on 20 meters) who was also a trout fisherman, at the same time I was fishing the Bradley Fork. He was giving me some pointers and they were working real well!

I've made some good contacts all over the world from the park where a cell phone won't even work. France, Russia, Bosnia, Ukraine, Spain, Ireland, Africa, to name a few.

When I come down next month I'll leave a message here on the forum to let you know and when I get close to Maryville I've give you a call on two meter. Just tell me the frequency to be on. Way cool!

Thinking about maybe fishing the Tellico again or maybe the Clinch.
I also need to get some "local flies" for fishing in the park at LRO.

My call is K9REH, the xyl's, KC9IPI.

Thanks guys for indulging me!

Crockett

03-04-2011, 04:53 PM

Wow awesome Whitefeather yeah this is where a PM or meetup board like you guys were talking about on that other thread would come in handy. I have thought about taking my little old Alinco DJ-191 2 meter rig backpacking with me and hitting some repeaters from the backcountry. That might be a cool thing to try. Anyway yeah give me a shout I put my email below.

adam.s.beal at gmail

73s...

whitefeather

03-04-2011, 08:06 PM

Adam,

I emailed Paula and asked her if she could set up a "sticky thread" at the two forums so all could have a place to buddy up and leave messages. Let's hope she has the time to do that for us. I imagine LRO is getting pretty busy these days.

My pleasure old man, meeting you on the forum. When I get my new tower upright, I'm going to swing my A4S/A744 beam down toward's TN and give you'all a howdy!

Hey, there's code on two meter also but I can't find anyone who wants to work it or sideband.

Except for the astronauts and cosmonauts when the shuttle and the ISS come around on the right orbit. Worked them twice now (two different crews) and simultaneous with Houston Space Center, W5RRR, Mike, Director of Astronaut Training.

lauxier

03-04-2011, 10:43 PM

I keep my HK 40 cal. in my truck,most of the time I don't know where it is,usually it is under my side of the front seat.It doesn't hurt to have a good dog along to keep the peace,just in case some dude decides your vehicle and you looks to be an easy target for whatever....I was a shooter in 1971,a shooter in Vietnam in 1971 was officially legal...in 2011,believe me,you don't want to be a shooter.If every hated,disliked,or the subject of jealousy, person was shot as deemed
easy,necessary,and without concience,and if you are vulnerable enough to listen to the loafers,gun lovers,pathological gun lovers,suburban camo-flexers who inhabit gun shops,with lot's more threats than money,then indeed pull the trigger.I detest gun lust.If you or your family are in harms way,then do what you have to do...I would, I would not like it,but if you do like it then you fall through the vanity,inhuman,national socialist cracks,which means terms like Cowboy and Dirty Harry,are 100%,ly,appropriate for this discussion,the truth being,all this "I'll shoot you and I"ll shoot him,are basically shallow threats.There is nothing romantic about a firearm.

whitefeather

03-04-2011, 11:10 PM

lauxier,

I understand your position 100%. I wasn't a "shooter" as you descibed yourself, so I'll leave it at that. That being said, I was there in 1971 also, but as a trained soldier and pilot, not a trained killer, as in sniper. I know what it was like when I got back, man, horrible nightmares for twenty five years afterward, but the Lord got me through it and comforted me. Thanks for answering the call of duty, thanks for your service, and thanks for coming back alive.

MadisonBoats

03-05-2011, 09:57 AM

Well....

I suppose the real message we all should take from this account is to PRACTICE SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!

While I loathe traveling through this world suspicious of everyone, everywhere and all the time... the fact is that we all must be at both a state of readiness and awareness of potential threats.

Several years ago I was the victim of a violent crime; my pistol was in my truck but I was on a sidewalk with my family on Halloween. I didn't know that someone was planning to do me harm.... even if I had been armed it would have made no difference as I was rendered unconscious from behind.

Now I try to practice situational awareness as a normal part of my lifestyle. Only you can watch your own back.

PRACTICE SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!

I hate to hear about this kind of cowardly attack! However; your advice is KEY in my opinion and something we all must work on and maintain. This includes mentioning to our family members and friends when we feel it is needed. Sure; we will sound like the worry-wart. But, practicing this type of consciousness will save yourself a whole lot of worry!

Good Advice Corbo!

Owl

03-06-2011, 01:00 AM

Situational awareness is fine. Having the means to defend yourself once you realize there is a threat AND having situational awareness is best. There may be a fine line between awareness and paranoia, but if seeming a little paranoid saves your life I doubt you or those who love you will care in the end. And an extra extended magazine can't hurt.

Hey, I don't see a washtub for your dinner utensils! Go back and rearm!

LOL! Still laughing!

Flyfishingrookie

03-13-2011, 12:17 PM

Hello all,

This will be my first posting. I am typically just a reader not a poster. I like to just take it all in and learn. Given my screen name and company on the forum I do not have much to offer but questions and you all do a great job answering without me asking.

This seems to be a very passionate topic so I thought I would take a chance and toss in my two cents.

First of all let me say I am a former police officer and am currently a firearms instructor with a government agency. I am not telling you that to be a horn tooter of a self back patter but I think it lends credence to my opinion and it is just my opinion.

I think this is an interesting topic for this forum. I have seen several topics about strangers in the park and other locations having contact with fly fishers. These encounters affected the poster enough to want to talk about it, get it off their chest and send a warning. So, to me, this is a side of fly fishing that most people do not think about, So Kudos to this poster for bringing it up.

There are definitely some varied backgrounds, thoughts, opinions and beliefs here. I really enjoyed reading them all. Some are for carry some are against. These opinions are as varied as the types of flies LRO sells. I think that is great; to me that says you have at least thought about this subject and that in itself is important.

To all those that are posting here that have mentioned their own or a family member’s service in the military, thank you personally or to your family. I pray for what you have done in the past, what they do today and what they will do tomorrow. In my current job I have contact with all backgrounds of military service from truck drivers to Special Forces; they too have varying opinions of the subject. I do not think that there is any comparison between being in DaNang or Fallujah to sitting at a Newfound Gap parking lot. They are two very different situations, different threat levels and reasons for going armed.

Carrying a weapon is a constitutional right and if your state, locality or the Park Service allows it then do it, but do it responsibly. Responsibility lies in training, following the law and oh training. The handgun carry classes that must be taken in TN do not even scratch the surface of what you need to know about the law, carry options, mental training and weapons training needed to carry a weapon.

One thing I definitely appreciate is a citizen willing to take a part in their own security and that of their community. For me that entails not only firearms but also using every option possible rather than taking the life of another human. Being aware of surroundings was mentioned and I second that option. Seeing an attack coming before it happens is paramount to winning this type of confrontation.

In the end it is important for me to be discreet in firearms carry. I also believe the opinions of those that oppose carry are important and I appreciate them whole heartedly. I also appreciate the opinions of those that choose to "reasonably" carry a firearm.

Thanks for the opportunity to post here

Paula Begley

03-13-2011, 12:24 PM

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Flyfishingrookie.

Paula

whitefeather

03-13-2011, 04:37 PM

Flyfishingrookie,

Thank you sir for your thoghtful post, also. You said it all! And thank you for your continued service to our country and our military, as well as your service to your community as a police officer!