Rank em’: Suit, shoe, and watch construction

August 15, 2012 By Joe| Heads up: Buying via our links may result in us getting a commission. Here's why.

Here’s how this works. Look at the options, pick your order, then leave your rankings in the comments section. Feel free to explain why you placed what where. This time around it’s how your suits are made, your shoes are made, and how your watch keeps ticking. Your favorite, what you value the most, goes #1..

Canvassed Suit Jackets

Hard to deny that a canvassed jacket doesn’t move better.

Most affordable (and all cheap) suits are fused. Fusing is the glue that the maker uses to bind the front piece of the suit jacket to the interior cut of fabric. Don’t worry, they use something more advanced than Elmer’s, but it’s still not ideal. It makes for a suit jacket that won’t “drape” or flow over the wearer as well as a canvassed suit. Also, if dry-cleaned repeatedly, there’s a serious risk of melting the fusing during the process, only to have it regather in goofy looking ridges and wrinkles. Canvassed suits have an extra floating piece that the exterior and interior of the jacket are stitched to. Over time, this piece molds to the wearer’s body, making it move much better and feel superior. They’re not cheap though, and many makers like Indochino and SuitSupply use either a hybrid or “half canvassing”.

Stitched/Welted Shoes

Stitches. A good thing for the sole if not for your skin.

Glue also comes into play here. Most affordable shoes have had their soles glued to the uppers. Sure plenty of inexpensive shoes look like they’ve got stitching around their edges… but it’s all for show. Durability can become an issue if they’re worn often and not rotated with other shoes, and when they wear out they wear out. In automotive terms, this would be like having to replace your car’s wheels when the tires get bald. Now, that’s not completely fair, because most of us don’t have 10 sets of tires hanging out in our garage. And like fused suits, PLENTY of us can get by and look better than good with little to no durability problems if we maintain them properly. But a welted shoe like an Allen Edmonds with their Goodyear welt and terrific re-crafting service is great if you can afford it.

Mechanical/Automatic watches

Batteries not included, nor needed. Left: Mechanical. Right: Auto

What is art? Is progress art? Is starting a fire with flint and steel more virtuous than using a match and lighter fluid? Are breast implants, um… less appealing than what nature gives a lady? Lots of convoluted analogies have been applied to the quartz vs. mechanical watch debate and there’s good arguments for each side. A mechanical or automatic watch doesn’t depend on this newfangled thing known as “electricity” to power it. It’s incredibly impressive that man figured out how to keep accurate track of time with devices dependent on nothing but springs and gears. It’s also impressive that man figured out how to get to the friggin’ moon. Which believe it or not, was what helped start the widespread production of watches that depend on electricity.

Your turn. What’s most important do you? Do you drool over canvassed suits? Will you save up for a shoe with a true welt? Shun quartz like it’s a carrier of Ebola? Rankings go below. Explanations encouraged. Top photo credit: Tupps

welted shoes way out in the lead….canvassed suits as a minor, yet largely unimportant, preference, and automatic watches a barely visible third (unless you wear it all the time, it is more of a pain in the rear than it’s worth….don’t want a fleet of winders on my dresser).

Sort of difficult to decide, but I’m going to go with Mechanical watch, welted shoes, and then canvassed suit, as that’s how it fits in with my life right now since I’m still in college and not wearing a suit everyday and keep my shoes toned down as well, but my watches are a constant.

Shoes, suits, and waaaaaaay over to the right is watches. The difference here is that a quartz watch functions just as well (if not better). Cheaper shoes and suits don’t function as well and they don’t last. I have automatic watches and one quartz that’s about 8 years in with only one battery change and keeps better time than the autos.

Canvassed suit (better fit and I love suits), welted shoes (durability hasn’t been a huge issue for me but the ability to get them resoled is nice), then mechanical watch because I’m not a huge watch guy… yet

A well-built automatic watch which is cared for is the only piece of the three that will last a lifetime and beyond. Just learning about the amount of artistry/engineering/patience that goes into creating an automatic timepiece might change a lot of opinions here.
It’s rare to see someone wearing their great-grandfather’s suit or bluchers. Keep in mind that you can have an exceptional suit (jacket) which is unlined, or half-canvassed.
As for shoes – a goodyear welt is paramount, but not necessarily a deal breaker when judging the aesthetic of the shoe (last, dye, broguing/medallion, polish lace-pattern etc. are all equally as important).

But if I may cheat just for a second: All three should be in any adult male’s arsenal.

Watches just don’t even factor into this debate. Quartz are superior to automatics/mechanicals in every practical way. They are cheaper, tougher, more accurate, more resistant to shock and magnetism, cheaper and easier to maintain, and contrary to marketing, there is no reason a quartz watch with regular maintenance won’t last as long as any mechanical watch.

Canvassed suits and welted shoes are an investment precisely because you get a return on your money – that is, you will spend less money in the long run because it is cheaper to maintain and repair a nice suit or pair of shoes than it is to replace cheap ones all the time. Buying a mechanical watch is not an investment because the watch is much more expensive, over time, than a comparatively cheap quartz would be. “Expensive” and “luxury” are not the same as “investment.”

Nothing against mechanical watches. I own and like them. But a practical man, even a style-concerned one, would choose quartz any day.

There is no reason a quartz watch can’t last just as long as any mechanical. I’ve picked up 40-year-old quartz watches from thrift stores and gotten them telling perfect time again with just a new battery.

Mechanical watches, welted shoes and canvassed suits all in a close race. Agreed that quartz watches tell time just as good if not better than a mechanical watch. However, that’s like saying a Honda functions the same way a BMW does. I’ve recently switched over to wearing a nice timepieces, a JLC Dualtime, and I cannot begin to tell you the amount of details that are visible, let alone the details that cannot be seen. My “collection” is growing annually, and the community is extremely nice and educating. There is a certain amount of craftsmanship and ingenuity that is packaged in a fine timepiece that cannot be matched. The quartz watches can be had for 20 dollars, where Chinese manufactures drop in a mass produced “movement” while a timepiece is given life by a watchmaker. I agree that Swiss timepieces are overpriced and a complete luxury, but they do display a sort of refinement you will NEVER see in a quartz watch. You can argue that mechanical watches are a waste of money, but if you have the means to do so, you won’t regret purchasing something that does not require a battery.

I’m going to have to disagree with you on watches not being an investment, because of price of all things? By your definition of an investment, a share of Berkshire Hathaway would not be considered an investment because of its price. Granted, not all mechanical watches hold their value, but there are no suits or shoes on the market that hold ANY value. Your blanked statement of quartz watches being tougher is incorrect in many cases and I don’t find it a coincidence you mentioned “cheaper” twice in your description of quartz watches. I recently sold a watch, for a higher value than it was originally purchased, after about a year of wearing it. Show me a well maintained Patek that loses money, and I’ll show you a suit that is considered an “investment.”

Suit, shoes, watch. Auto watches seem essentially to be a status thing. Both suit and shoes are about durability, but canvassed suits go first for me because they’re about durability AND looks, as they drape better. I just wish I could afford the damn things.

So, SuitSupply are only half-canvassed, huh? Man, I thought they were my way in. Where’s a guy gotta go for full canvas?

1.Shoes. Comfort has to. One before all and well made shoes are a great investment.
2. Suit. The suit can be sub par materials or brand. But a decent suit with a proper fit after a visit to the tailor can look like a 5k suit.
3. The watch I choose last bc it’s really just an aesthetic piece. And I don’t want to spend a ton of money on something I rarely look at and swap out 2 or 3 times a week.

The entry-level SuitSupply models (for $600 and less) are half-canvassed, with relatively little fusing/glue. The high-end ones, which start in the $700’s, are fully canvassed.
You can get Hickey Freeman suits, which are fully canvassed and made in the USA, for $600 or less at discount outlets if you look hard. Otherwise, the hand-made fully-canvassed suits of fame (USA-made Oxxford and HF’s mainline models, and the usual Italian names like Brioni, Kitoni, etc.) will set you back a few thousand per suit. But, they will last you decades with care–same reason why some shell out $500 or more for Allen Edmonds every 3-5 years rather than buying a cheap $100 or less pair of Aldo’s or Kenneth Cole’s per year.

I put it to you that the reason automatics like Patek Philippe are heirloom investments that you can pass down is that they are expensive and rarefied. If it was the case that quartz watches started at $1500 then people would maintain them (which few are willing to do with how cheap most quartz watches are) and there would be a healthy resale market. There is cachet to the old-world craftsmanship of a mechanical watch, but that’s what you’re paying for, the cachet. I think that’s what BenR was talking about – with suits and shoes, more money gets you a tangible benefit, an investment in quality goods that will pay dividends in comfort and aesthetics for years, whereas watches are a luxury good that are expensive because they are seen to have value. The same is true in the world of shoes and suits – you could probably get a suit as well-crafted and good-fitting as a Sevile Row suit for less money, and Jimmy Choo shoes are likely no better crafted than well-made shoes half their price – but you are paying for the luxury and value associated with the brand. It’s just that with watches this luxury pricing effect is most of the market, rather than a few outliers.

Hey Russell, I understand your argument but again I disagree. I used PP as an example, but in actuality, the watch I sold back was a Rolex, which saw a price increase from the time I purchased and the time I sold it. I don’t think you could classify most Rolexes as “rarefied” with an estimated annual output of about 1 million watches. You mentioned that Jimmy Choo shoes are no likely better crafted than well made shoes half their price..and maybe that’s true. However, that’s where your comparisons to timepieces do not find common ground. I’m willing to say the time and effort that goes into making a quality timepiece is exponentially more than what goes into some of the watches with quartz movements. For example, one so called stylish gentlemen showed me his D&G watch and when I politely declined compliment, he said, no, this was $500. Again, the price is not what I’m arguing about…it’s the quality of the product. I’m not saying all timepieces coming out of Switzerland deserve to be praised, but many of them display what true craftsmanship represents. I know watches/timepieces can be argued all day long about if they represent real value. I’m arguing it does. Believe me, I was completely on your side about five years ago, but since purchasing my first timepiece, I can say there is nothing like putting on a nice watch that peaks out from a fully canvassed suit.

after monkeying around with battery changes for years, I searched out and purchased a “timeless” mechanical watch. Shoes next, have a pair that are 28 years old and resoled only once. Still look great with regular cleaning. Suits come in third– I like variety of sportscoats more anyway.

Fair enough. I get your point and think the Honda to BMW is an apt comparison (though I drive a Honda haha). However, I always get stuck on the fact that every mechanical watch zealot sets their watch at some point by battery-powered devices. And many use battery-powered winders. It just seems like a silly argument that one is inherently better when one must use the battery-powered devices to obtain the time originally. Unless they are setting their watches via sundial, that is. Then proselytize away.
Not an argument against you personally, Derrick as you raise valid, level-headed points.

Watch, shoes, suit for me. A quality automatic time piece from a respected manufacturer will often hold its value and over the long run keep up with inflation. Knowing that I can sell the watch on my wrist for what I paid for it is nice. As a shady friend of mine says, if I ever have to go on the run, I can always turn my watch into cash. Also, in the work that I do a watch is essential, as checking the time on my phone is just flat out rude. Sadly, shoes and suits just don’t hold value. However, if you are operating on a budget (can’t afford a luxury time piece), then I would place shoes and a quality suit over a mechanical watch.

Thanks Greg. I’ve never set my watch to sundial, seems like a hipster thing. I set my watch to time.gov, but my JLC runs almost spot on, +/-1 second a day. I’ve had some other automatics that are far worse. My last contribution is that I believe that watches are an accessory, and this is the part of a man’s wardrobe where he can really display status. I think we can all say that when if we want the time, most of us carry mobile phones. Therefore, it’s my contention that men wear watches as a complement to his wardrobe, so why not “peacock” a little?

Shoes, watch, suit.
Shoes because when my feet are happy I am inclined to be moreso.
Watches give me a sense of attainment and grounding in the moment. The sweet burr of an automatic piece provides an objective sort of rhythm.
Finally the suit. A full canvas does make the difference, however it is as much how you wear the suit as how it wears you.

A quartz watch, unless in an ultra-casual or sport/extreme setting, is a joyless appliance and wearing is one equivalent to driving around in and/or pulling up to a business meeting in a cheapo econobox. It got you there but that’s it.

A fine watch is like a fine car – once you’ve enjoyed better there’s no going back.

Amazing how many people will spend all sorts of money on IPhones and iPads but not a few bucks on real value like a fine watch.

I’m only looking at these ‘construction’ questions, because comparing AEs to Stacy Adams shoes mean more than just welted construction.
Canvassing in a suit affects the look and feel, but not the durability. The increase in cost for getting canvas is probably only 20%
Welting in a shoe affects the durability, but really doesn’t affect the look (unless someone is carefully inspecting the soles of your shoes). Going from glued to welted will probably add 50%-100% in cost
Mechanical/Automatic watch movements usually decreases durability and accuracy and doesn’t affect the looks. There are some cheap mechanical movements, so the cost increase can be marginal at first, but most recommend a $200 servicing every 3-5 years.

I splurged on the automatic watch first – I like knowing that there is something complicated that makes it all work. I wear it 6-7 days a week and it brings a smile to my face when I look at it. I also like the fact that I could give it to my son or a grandchild some day. It could happen with a suit or shoes, but I don’t hear of too many people that talk about wearing their late father’s cherished suit/shoes.
I had a hard time with the additional cost for welted shoes, since I was buying decent looking shoes for $30-$45 and I could go through 6-10 pairs for the same cost. I always wear through the center of the sole long before the uppers look bad and welting keeps your feet dryer, so I finally broke down and got a couple pairs.
My last purchase was the suit. I just don’t have the occasion to wear suits (even following the recently posted suggestions) and I struggled with seeing/feeling the difference in fit. I only bought mine because it was an incredible deal.

I love mechanical watches, and my one canvassed suit is definitely my favorite, but welted shoes are a need, not want. I’ve had too many cheaply-made dress shoes fall apart on me after a year or so of use, compared to a pair of goodyear welted dress shoes I’ve had resoled several times over five years for a fraction of the cost of replacing the cheaper shoes outright. I must be hard on my shoes.

Regardless
of the standard of any watch, there’ll doubtless return a time once your watch
needs a repair of some nature. With any quartz sit up for example, at a while
you may need battery replacement while with a mechanical watch, regular pairing
is important so as to keep up correct activity

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