to bail or not to bail?

Well it seems that this man from Triune Ministries finally talked to my difficult children lawyer. The lawyer said he may go to court sometime this year! So this little man asked him if we could send him to rehab while he waited. The lawyer said sure! So now the bondsman said if we bailed him out and he didnt finish rehab then they would hunt him down and we would not be responsible for the rest of the payment. If we put $250. up and his bail is $5,000. then we would have to pay something surely. Anyway I am now wondering if we should do that or not? I am going to talk to husband - I probably already know what he is going to say! I will also talk to God. I missed my therapist appointment. I called to tell them I wouldnt be there beacause I had a choral program and I didnt call soon enough so they charged me $140. for both times! I just pay $20. copay. Anyway I guess I cant talk to her until I pay. Alanon will be Monday thank goodness. So I wanted to know what yall think! If he bails out or they kick him out - what will happen then - I cant stand the thought of it but at the same time what good is jail doing him. He says he is a trustee. He will have a job of either cleaning up floors or kitchen duty. This is a sad situation. It has been easy on me because I haveant had to worry about what is going to happen next or where he is. Tell me what you think.

Well, jail keeps him away from drugs for a start. I think if he needs to make bail, he should find a way to do it. He's still 24. He's still an adult. He's really done nothing to prove that this rehab isn't more than just a way to stay out of prison -- not that he wants to quit using. As brutal as this sounds, I'd leave him where he is.

As to what will happen if you bail him out, I'd call a bailbondsman and ask.

I think that whatever actions need to be taken, your son is the one that needs to take them. Until he starts participating in his own recovery, he won't own it. He will not be responsible for any failures that he has, and even worse, he will not be responsible for any successes.

Just my opinion, but I think your son needs to stay where he is unless and until he is ready to take the actions he needs to move on.

While he's in jail, you know he's sheltered and fed, and not getting high. The rest is up to him.

How do I know he is not ready? How is he supposed to help hiimself in there if he has no money? These are just questions that I go around and around about when someone tells me this. It all makes sense but I want to know how he is supposed to do it. My husband said basically the same thing. I said to him then how is he supposed to get help if we dont offer a way to help? On the flip side - it could always get worse. Just thinking and I appreciate your thoughts.

When my daughter was ready, she was very vocal about it, very remorseful, and did it without rehab (although I'm not saying that's a plus or not). She had been trying to quit on and off and her biggest obstacle seemed to be her friends. Once she was out-of-state, living with her brother, she no longer took drugs and she got with her straight arrow brother's program QUICK. I think you know if your son is serious or just wanting to dodge jail. It's more than words, it's actions. You don't need money to quit. My daughter had nothing from us and a job at "Subway" (yes, THAT Subway). There must be N/A meetings in jail. Is he attending and seriously working the steps? My daughter didn't do this either--she just quit--but you do need some sort of sign. My own opinion is you'll be out $250 if you do it and your son will be back on the streets. I'd make him earn every penny if he wants rehab. It's very hard to quit. I'd want him where he is so he's off the streets and has a longer time to stay clean. Yes, I know you can get drugs in jail, but if he does, then you'll know he's not serious. I think you notice a serious lifestyle change if your kid is ready to quit and you'd probably notice it even in jail--like he's really cooperative and hardworking (not for YOUR benefit so that you'll dish out cash, but for his own benefit because he hates his lifestyle and wants to change). Trust me, it doesn't cost a penny to get clean. If the person is highly motivated the person will kick it--either with N/A meetings or alone. I wish you luck in your decision. I know my daughter would tell you to make him do the work.

what you are saying makes sense. It wasnt long ago that he told me he had crack in the jail. Maybe he shouldnt have told me but that makes me think he is not ready. He still wants his Xanax. I dont know whether he really needs it or not. I am sure it does calm his nerves. How doyou stop something that you are so used to to help calm nerves when you dont know what else to do?: I know that is where he is but I havea worked the steps more than he has - I have also fallen on my face more than he has and looked up for support and still do. I probably need to look upward more. Thanks for your reply.

If this man wants him out so badly, why doesn't he bail him out? What Trinity says makes a lot of sense.

Here's what I would ask the bondsman, verbatim:

"If I post $250, under what circumstances would I be responsible for the remaining $4,750?"

What you wrote about not being responsible if he runs out on bond doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Since you asked, I would say "no". If your husband does not agree to bail him out, and you do it anyway or pressure him into it, and difficult child runs, you are jeopardizing your marriage. If difficult child were 14, that might make sense. It does not at 24.

I have never had any experience with putting up bail but I always thought that the whole point of putting up bail for someone is that you are guaranteeing that the person will show up or you forfeit the money.

I would definitely check into it more thoroughly before doing anything.

If his bail is 5,000, then I "think" to bail him out you would need to put up 500.00 - if he does a runner, or doesn't show to court, you will be looking to pay 5,000..

My difficult child knows mom doesn't do bail- he is stupid enough to get himself in there, I surely am not going to get him out..last time he spent 4 months - I will visit, put money on his books, but thats the extent of it for me..

I would not post bond. When my difficult child was in jail the last time, I let him sit. His grandfather died and a sympathetic DA allowed him to sign a PR bond. I would not put my name on anything that would cost me anymore money. When my difficult child got out the last time he was responsible for himself. That is what detachment is about--letting your difficult child learn to accept his actions and consequences. There are lots of ways that he can help himself while in jail, if he chooses too. Let him make his own choices. You will be glad you did one day even if it makes you question yourself now....
Hugs...

I have to add, if he can go through this rehab now, he can also go through rehab later. When nothing is holding him back from conning someone into giving him xanax and he goes into rehab instead, that's when you know he is serious about rehab.

The cocaine in jail would be a definite dealbreaker for me. And he doesn't NEED Xanax. My daughter is a very high strung young woman, but she won't take ANY drugs now because she knows she's prone to addiction. Xanax is abused on the streets--I can't believe anyone would give it to an addict. Addicts tend to say, "I HAD to take (fill in the blanks) because of the stress." Guess what? We all have stress. Part of getting ready to quit is learning to deal with stress without drugs. An antidepressant can help with stress too and it can't be abused. Of course, if he's also using recreational drugs, the affects of the antidepressant will be compromised. I agree that he's pulling a con job on ya. That's how addicts are until they get out of that addict mindset...good luck and take care of YOU and your other kids.

How do I know he is not ready? How is he supposed to help hiimself in there if he has no money?

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That's just it, Stands. You can't know. Only your difficult child can know, and right now it doesn't sound like he is. When he is ready to change, it will be clear from his behaviour and his attitude. He will not be asking your help to get him out of jail. He will be asking your help to help himself get on the right path.

My difficult child is showing a similar attitude to yours. He's in a long-term/permanent Residential Treatment Center (RTC), and he's not doing any of the work to learn or improve himself. He's rebelling and fighting against the program rather than working it.

Over time I have realized (my therapist said this was a huge breakthrough) that there's nothing more I can do for him. difficult child is safe, has food and shelter, and 24-hour supervision so that the worst of his excesses will not kill him. The rest is up to him. He gets to choose what he will make of this opportunity, and he gets to own the success or failure of it.

Your difficult child needs to have the same opportunity. If you keep doing things for him, you are denying him the opportunity to succeed. That's not fair to either of you.

When my difficult child got out the last time he was responsible for himself.

That is what detachment is about--letting your difficult child learn to accept his actions and consequences.

There are lots of ways that he can help himself while in jail, if he chooses too.

Let him make his own choices. You will be glad you did one day even if it makes you question yourself now....

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I agree with the good advice you have been given, Stands.

These are the kinds of situations which destroy the moms and the dads. As bad as the using behaviors are, it's the turning away, the not helping our children when their consequences come due ~ that is what does us in, damaging our concepts of self almost beyond recognition.

Nonetheless, until you know in your hearts that not helping is the best help you can give, you will not be able NOT to help.

That is the battle for you and your husband now.

To understand that these are the consequences your son chose when he chose the behavior and to understand that, if you pay the consequences for him now, if you reward him for these behaviors in any way, you are encouraging the behavior.

I'm so sorry, Stands.

There is no happy ending, there is no sense of balance, there is not one good thing that will come out of this.

If it comforts you, know that we all have been right where you are, now.

One day, you will be the one helping the next mom or dad learn to survive the things, the horrible things, we need to face, and make decisions about, and live through, when we are the parent of an addicted child.

But you have us, Stands.

We cannot make the pain go away, but you aren't alone with it, anymore.

You will do the right thing, and you will know what the right thing is, when you are ready, Stands.

If his bail is 5000 then the amount to get out is normally around 500 but some bondsmen will do it for a little less. Corys bond is 11K and he is out on 750. We did sign and if he fails to go to court or runs then we are responsible but there isnt a snowballs chance in hades of him running. We cant blast him out of here with dynamite. He has no where to go.

Over time we recognized that the only thing that would work for him was natural consequences----ie, break the law/get arrested.

We never paid attorney fees either. He always used a public defender and was represented fairly. I realize that he was very lucky to have a fabulous PO and adequate representation, but that isn't the issue here.

Stands, you've already read it many times from a variety of people on this thread....until your difficult child starts taking his future seriously and working towards positive goals, your efforts are, unfortunately, futile.

If you post bond - you are responsible for the entire amount if he jumps it. You will pay a bondsman $250.00 now - and he will have to report in to the bondsman every week. If he misses reporting they will call - they will go to the address given and they will take him BACK to jail. If they can't find him - they WILL make you pay the entire amount they put up to the courts to get him out. ALL $5,000.00

Usually if bail is set at 5000- they want 10% or more to go get him out. I don't know how you are only being asked to pay $250 - I was thinking it would be $500.00 Is someone else putting up 1/2?

Also - IF and that is a HUGE if. IF I were to agree to put him in rehab - it would ONLY be - in a locked down facility. Most rehabs - (Oh gosh didn't think I'd ever have to remember this) but MOST rehabs - also cater to walk in clients - so the inpatient people and the outpatient people can mingle, go outside, smoke, and that means get contraband. ALSO KNOW THIS - ONCE he goes into rehab he goes in voluntarily - meaning WHEN/IF the mood strikes him the rehab can't keep him - they HAVE TO BY LAW let him walk out.

OK I just feel like I should let it go. Sometimes I feel like I am not doing anything but yet I feel like I cant do anything else. I am so tired of it and so is evearyone else on this board. You all have been through this and know how tiring it is. I am just thinking am I making a mistake by not doing it. I dont really think I am making a mistake - you are right in that he needs to start really trying to figure out what he is doing that needs help. The most p eaceful time I have is when he is locked up - I cant go through the unrest knowing he could get thrown out of another rehab. It puts be back into the fire!
I havaae already been burned a thousand times why go back?