E3 Interview: Nintendo’s Shigeru Miyamoto

Today’s E3 interview is perhaps the most desired sit-down in the games business: Nintendo’s head of game development, Shigeru Miyamoto. I’ve had the chance to talk with Miyamoto on several occasions over the last five years and have yet to have an interview that I didn’t consider revealing.

With a scaled-back E3 this year, there was less for Miyamoto to talk about, but his comments on game design as pertaining to Wii Fit and Super Mario Galaxy are a must-read.

The main advantage of playing on globes or spheres rather than a big open 3D space is that the camera becomes less of an issue, to always see what you’re doing. It’s much easier for people who have a hard time with 3D space to navigate.

The full interview, after the jump.

Wired News: I was just playing Super Mario Galaxy, and I was really interested in the two-player mode. Could I hear about why that came about?Shigeru Miyamoto: One of the driving forces behind it was that we felt that since Mario 64, a lot of people have had a hard time playing the Mario games because of the move to 3D. So this time, we really wanted to create a Mario game that everybody can play — but we still wanted to do something in 3D. So that was really the genesis of the idea.

The other thing is, with the Mario games, if you’re playing and there are people sitting next to you, they’re always saying, "Oh, go over here, go look at that thing." And so we thought that with the Wii remote and the pointer we would be able to make it more interactive for the people sitting on the couch next to you, who could guide you along the way pointing at different objects.

WN: It’s really interesting because at last year’s E3, New Super Mario Bros. had only just come out and we didn’t know it would be one of the best-selling games on DS. Did that success end up delaying the development of Super Mario Galaxy when you realized that a lot of people were going to be looking to this game?SM: No, not at all. We’ve kind of had this idea for a long time, that we wanted to, from the very beginning, have it be something that everyone can play. And the core idea, actually, in terms of the gravity and running around on different spheres, were things that we were experimenting with back when we were working on Mario 128, and the 100 Marios demo, immediately after Mario 64. A lot of it was ideas that we’ve had for a long time. The main advantage of playing on globes or spheres rather than a big open 3D space is that the camera becomes less of an issue, to always see what you’re doing. It’s much easier for people who have a hard time with 3D space to navigate.

WN: What else is going on? What else is new and exciting right now in the life of Miyamoto?

SM: Other than this, I’m working very hard trying to finalize Wii Fit.WN: And that’s actually coming out this year in Japan, right?

SM: Yes. We’ve already started manufacturing the Balance Boards.WN: What drove you to get into this? Wii Sports is still very much a video game, but Wii Fit is taking things in a different direction.

SM: It really goes back to our core concepts for when we were first designing the Wii. Originally, the plan was that Wii would be a device that would be placed in the living room, and as such we wanted everyone in the house to be able to use it. And the concept really ties in to Wii Channels: we wanted the Wii to become an additional set of channels for everyone in the family to use, and the only difference is that these channels, which happen to be on your TV, are interactive channels. And as long as those channels are a fun entertainment experience, then everyone in your family can sit down and take advantage of those. So the idea is that the Wii would be a device that you would not necessarily have to sit and play for hours on end, but that you could play for just a little bit of time every day.

And that’s kind of in line with the ideas behind Wii Fit, and Wii Fit fits very naturally into that concept. So whether it’s kind of strange, too, because it’s something you could play for just three minutes every day or go in for a workout and do one hour every day. So in that sense it’s really more about the interesting ways in which we’re using this vieo game system to try to provide new experiences that everyone can enjoy.

WN: Do you think there’s more of a barrier to entry now because you’re making people buy this second controller, or do you think that Wii is successful enough now that this won’t be an issue?SM: First off, talking about say, for example, the Zapper and the Wii Wheel, these were two peripherals designed to be as inexpensive as possible. Because if you have games that require those and there’s a barrier to picking up those devices, then people can’t play those games. So in that sense what we’ve done is we’ve tried to make the devices as inexpensive as possible using the technology in the Wiimote. So the Wii Zapper, we’ll be able to provide that at a very low price point. The Wii Wheel, we’ll be able to pack that in with the software. And that will really help build the install base for those peripherals.

In regards to the Wii Balance Board, we had a different concept for that. And really, I think it’s not so much about comparing the cost of the Wii Balance Board and Wii Fit to the cost of a video game, but comparing it to the cost of a health or exercise device, and thinking, what is the real value of this product? And what is the price that consumers are willing to pay? So in our minds it’s a slightly different approach to what we’re going to do.WN: Getting off this subject, can you tell me what’s going on with Wii Ware? It’s been announced, but we haven’t heard any details.SM: Wii Ware is something that we’ve had planned all along for the system, so even though we’ve just announced it it’s not something that’s very new for me. But, our group isn’t specifically focused on developing any Wii Ware. But we have in our internal development teams who are constantly doing different experiments and will have different ideas about games. And oftentimes a lot of those experiments can’t be fully fleshed out into, say, a Mario game or something like that. But those individuals will often want to find a way to take those ideas to market. So it’s possible that we might be able to take advantages of some of those resources and turn them into small and compact Wii Ware games.

But really, I think the advantge of WIi Ware is that it allows a lot more freedom — they can take something that’s a much smaller concept or idea and turn it into a game that they can present to the public. So I think it adds another layer of freedom for the developer.WN: We’ve been seeing a lot of game designers who have moved up the ladder and away from game design, and more towards the business aspect of things, stepping back and doing some kind of smaller project on their own. Have you considered that at all, creating a small game on which you’re the lead designer?

SM: This isn’t a very good answer, but I’ve always felt like I’ve done both at the same time. The thing about packaged goods is that it’s a very good model, but the challenge is that when we were making cartridge-based games, it’s difficult to release a lower-priced cartridge. And even with the disc-based media, if you release one disc-based game that’s much less expensive than all the others, that affects the consumer’s perception as to how much they should be paying for a disc-based game. And then of course you have retailers and distributors who all have to be able to make their profit off of the process and how they’re distributing the software as well. So there are some challenges to it but it’s a system that works quite well.

And then on the other side you have these producers and creators who are faced with the stress of having to manage teams of 100 people or more, and rising budgets, and tight schedules, and, you know. It can become very difficult for them to, in that kind of environment, to come up with ideas and pursue the ideas that they want to pursue. So I think that something like Wii Ware is there, that just offers more choices for people to take their ideas and bring them to market, I think that’s a good thing.

WN: Do you guys struggle with making global products at this point? Because I think there’s a lot of stuff coming out for the DS in Japan that hits that territory very specifically, with the expanded audience, but in America it seems like we’re mostly getting that stuff from Japan, third parties here aren’t leaping on to it, and it doesn’t seem like there are a lot of opportunities to translate some of those titles and bring them over because it doesn’t really work over here — are you trying to get titles like that more globally?

SM: Speaking for me personally, the only Touch Generations games that I have worked on are ones that are geared for a worldwide market. But it is true that there have been games from Japan that are very much geared towards the Japanese market. Like the kanji training game, which is something that would be very difficult to put into English. Or the Common Sense knowledge training game. But what I can say is that I think that it would be perfectly suitable for American developers, along those same lines, to come up with Touch Generations type titles that are suited towards the American market and geared towards American culture. And actually, we’ve been sharing information with third party developers about the types of markets that we’ve been able to create and expand by way of the Touch Generation titles in Japan, and I think that because of that, that’s why you’re seeing companies like EA and Ubisoft start to focus on the Touch Generation style of gameplay, and in the near term, we’ll start to see a lot more American Touch Generation games appear on the platform.

WN: Have you played Guitar Hero or Rock Band?SM: I haven’t played them very much. And of course, I play guitar myself. And I find that when I have played them, I want something more complicated, because I know how to play the guitar. But I do think that those games feel very good, because once you start playing those games and getting into the rhythm it feels very good indeed. Really, because we’re still working on Wii Music, I try not to pay too much attention to other music games because I don’t want to be influenced by them. WN: Tell me more about Wii Music. I thought maybe that game would be a shoo-in to get shown at E3.SM: We had a few too many titles to show off this year at E3, so we decided to hold that one back. I think it will be another big step forward in terms of Touch Generations style games for Wii, so you’ll just have to wait until we can talk about it.

WN: Is that still on for this year in Japan?SM: I kind of focus on games in order, one by one. I’m focused on these right now. So I’m thinking Wii Music might be good for next year sometime. Mario Kart, as well.WN: This is the first E3 at which Nintendo is doing very well in both the handheld and the console arenas, so what is it like being here and doing very well after years of people telling you you were crazy?SM: Well, really, we’re part of the video game market too, so we can’t turn our back on the video game market and the people who have made the video game market what it is up until now. But the thing that we really noticed was that the video game market had become too focused on itself, where you had people who played and talked about video games, but video games hadn’t become a topic of mass, popular culture for a long time. And that was where we wanted to focus our attention. And we found that with the DS and the Wii, things are once again taking on this cultural phenomenon type status. And overall I think that’s very healthy for the video game market in and of itself. So for us the challenge is to think about, what can we do to continue that and support that. So whether it’s coming up with new hardware, new interfaces, or revolutionary new games — my job is now to think about how we’ll continue that. I don’t know what it will be, but we’re working on it.

Up until now, the biggest question in society about video games has been what to do about violent games. But it’s almost like society in general considers video games to be something of a nuisance, that they want to toss into the garbage can. And so really what we feel is that rather than answering the question of what to do about violence in video games, we can, through the games that we create, once again make video games a topic of popular discussion and popular culture, then gradually you’re going to see society come to understand video games better and understand what they’re all about. At that point, once that understanding is there, people will become able to address their concerns about violent video games from a position of understanding rather than a position of being on the outside looking in.

And so I think that Nintendo’s role in that is not to answer the question of what to do about violence in video games, but to expand the overall market in an effort to expand people’s understanding of video games.

WN: In general, have you been happy with how people have picked up on this new type of video game design? It seems like third parties are just copying Nintendogs and Brain Age.SM: I think that the entertainment industry itself has a history of chasing success. Any time a hit product comes out, all the other companies start chasing after that success and trying to recreate it by putting out similar products. But with Nintendo DS I think developers are finally starting to understand the system. Additionally, Nintendo has its own third party support group. And that group has begun making concerted efforts with third parties, providing them with the same level of support that they provide our own internal developer teams. So from a technological standpoint I thinkthat developers have a better understanding of things, as well. And because of that we’re seeing third parties who have people who are developing the games and creating the games coming up with ideas. And because of that we’re starting to see many more unique and creative ideas coming out. I’m very excited about all those products and really looking forward to those. And it’s coupling that with getting the third parties to use their best development teams and designers to create the best, most unique products that they can.