I always think I have to have the big games released only to find that they just sit on my HD never seeing any action. WitE is a perfect example. Played a few turns but think the sheer scale was just too much for this simpleton. It always seemed hard to keep my units together and that there were so many things 'hidden' that I could never sink into it.

Bought AT Gold and it sat too. I think one of the reasons were what I remember as a very clunky interface. I have to admit that I was turned off very early by it and never played it again. Just what the heck was I supposed to be doing and how do I get there.

Well here I am again with $40 waiting to burn and am unsure if I just like the idea of having a monster game more than actually playing one. Hmmm.

Is the UI the same as AT? Does it feel more modern as opposed to what I considered an outdated UI in AT Gold? Should I just give the missus the $40 to spend at her leisure?

Thanks in advance

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul **A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

three zoom levels. the ui gets a lot of praise. the game is different from AT, there is less micromanagement. i never dared to play WitE, thats too complex, too much work for me. DC CB is more abstract but has still a lot of depth to it. i think it's best to read the aar's or the review on 'Out of eight': that guy also did a long video review.

Yes, you can now scroll with the mousewheel. I think there are 3 levels of zoom.

I never played ATG but find this UI to be one of the best I have used. I was also on the fence, with Case Blue's predecessor Warsaw to Paris. There was no demo and I wasn't sure if I wanted to take the risk. Matrix put a $10 discount on WtP to celebrate the release of CB so I took the plunge, as I am even more interested in the Eastern front than early war and saw it as a chance to try the game at less cost. Now I regret not buying it the moment it was launched. I haven't been able to stop playing it. It brings back the thrill of wargaming for me, like no other game I have played (And I've been wargaming since 1979, computer wargaming since 1981). The AI is unusually competent too. And it definitely has that "Just one more turn" factor. I would even say "just one more move"....ask my wife!!!

CB is a big game though, but it does have a couple smaller scenarios. Maybe you should do what I did and try WtP first while it is on discount (until end of July). It is smaller in scale but just as challenging. And Vic is patching it to include a lot of the improvements from CB (Including mousewheel zooming)

It is always difficult to express a recommendation for players. There are games that go on a hype, each of which speaks of it as they still are great, and I can not even do anything with it.

There are games that have their quirks, their flaws and edges, but I love them.

I also dislike Advanced Tactics Gold. Reluctantly, very reluctantly, I've only, after members of a German Strategy Forum were talking very positive about Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue, took the plunge and purchased the game. I am not disappointed!

The operation and the UI is very similar awkward like Advanced Tactics Gold. You have to get thru this. Then Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue has many good features that you will discover that outweigh the cumbersome operation.

Decisive Campaigns Case Blue is the scope of a big game but not quite as overwhelming as Gary Grigsby's War in the East.

Both games are just for you, if are not a hectic! If you are patience and you'll take the time for each move, for each step. Brain rules!

I can pronounce no recommendation. Look around, explore this forum. Read good AARs. Often they described as good, so well documented and supported it with pictures that you may simply want more, you want this. They will raise in you the desire that “I will do the same – I will act this way!”.

The included action cards and the requirements of the High Command will give you already a sort of RPG feel.

Loved your post. I can relate 100% as far as your reference to not being able to handle/enjoy games that have a ton of units.

Where we differ is that I loved ATG because you could play small scenarios. You need to pick that gem back up right away.

Back to your post. I have been investing a lot of time in Case Blue because I can tell the engine behind it is fantastic (even thought I still do not understand a crapload of it). Therefore I am trying to force myself to deal with a 'large unit' game. I may not be successful, but the fun I have had thus far vs the AI and figuring things out has exceeded the money I spent by about a hundred fold.

Now if you are not determined to force yourself to switch into a large unit player, then it is important to be realistic and steer clear of this one.

perhaps it would be useful if you would tell us which are you favorites strategy game(s)and why?

It would also be helpful if you could say, what you are expecting / hoping for. And what is a No-Go?

Hmmm. Tough question really. And if I was to be completely honest with myself I would say that I must like shiny new things and the thought of just messing around with them. I have way more games that I never played than any that I did with any regularity. I seem to buy almost all new Matrix games and devote a variable amount of time learning them, some more than others. As I have collected boardgames, many that are still unpunched, I seem to relish reading the rules and trying to decipher the flow of the game without ever really playing much.

I actually went through a list of games that I played more than others and came to the conclusion that there is no link between the ones I actually got into and the ones I didn't. I can't put my finger on why some games click for me while others don't. I would put the vast majority of those that I never got into not because they were bad games, but because I never devoted the time to fully appreciate them. There was always that new shiny toy that just got released that received my limited time and attention.

I do know that I think I want the monster games but when it comes time to play, I wildly rush through my turns and don't devote the time to make thoughtful decisions. Pretty soon I seem to move as far as I can and attack as much as I can without considering a clear overall goal. I want to play them better, but I guess my attention span isn't that good. I did enjoy the Decisive Battles series until it became stale to me and that would probably be the closest thing to DCCB that I played with any regularity. But that was then.

In essence I think I just enjoy buying these games because I have the means to and I know I can always at least fiddle around with them even if I don't ever play them much. Must be some kind of sickness as I am looking at a list of about 35 games on my HD that I mess around with and go back to even if I don't stay with them.

So it comes down to if I want to spend 40 bucks to see the new toy. I usually break down and buy them as my willpower is not that strong. I honestly wouldn't have to buy a game again in my life if I would be content with what I own now, especially considering my limited free time.

Hope this makes sense because I've had a few drinks while BB-Qing with the missus.

p.s. I like installing mods and frequent patches that adds new features. Maybe I need to follow Scouseair68s' advice and try WtP first.

Thanks for the consideration but I am afraid I am hopelessly helpless. The toy is still shinning btw.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul **A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

perhaps it would be useful if you would tell us which are you favorites strategy game(s)and why?

It would also be helpful if you could say, what you are expecting / hoping for. And what is a No-Go?

Hmmm. Tough question really. And if I was to be completely honest with myself I would say that I must like shiny new things and the thought of just messing around with them. I have way more games that I never played than any that I did with any regularity. I seem to buy almost all new Matrix games and devote a variable amount of time learning them, some more than others. As I have collected boardgames, many that are still unpunched, I seem to relish reading the rules and trying to decipher the flow of the game without ever really playing much.

I actually went through a list of games that I played more than others and came to the conclusion that there is no link between the ones I actually got into and the ones I didn't. I can't put my finger on why some games click for me while others don't. I would put the vast majority of those that I never got into not because they were bad games, but because I never devoted the time to fully appreciate them. There was always that new shiny toy that just got released that received my limited time and attention.

I do know that I think I want the monster games but when it comes time to play, I wildly rush through my turns and don't devote the time to make thoughtful decisions. Pretty soon I seem to move as far as I can and attack as much as I can without considering a clear overall goal. I want to play them better, but I guess my attention span isn't that good. I did enjoy the Decisive Battles series until it became stale to me and that would probably be the closest thing to DCCB that I played with any regularity. But that was then.

In essence I think I just enjoy buying these games because I have the means to and I know I can always at least fiddle around with them even if I don't ever play them much. Must be some kind of sickness as I am looking at a list of about 35 games on my HD that I mess around with and go back to even if I don't stay with them.

So it comes down to if I want to spend 40 bucks to see the new toy. I usually break down and buy them as my willpower is not that strong. I honestly wouldn't have to buy a game again in my life if I would be content with what I own now, especially considering my limited free time.

Hope this makes sense because I've had a few drinks while BB-Qing with the missus.

p.s. I like installing mods and frequent patches that adds new features. Maybe I need to follow Scouseair68s' advice and try WtP first.

Thanks for the consideration but I am afraid I am hopelessly helpless. The toy is still shinning btw.

mo reb

you are not alone in that sickness my friend. Personally I know a good game because I always return to fiddling with it . There are only a few amongst my unplayed collection which like yours is huge ... Combat Mission from battlefront - any tiller game and Decisive campaigns. thats the highest praise as far as quality goes. You should worry less about not finishing games and appreciate the pleasure they give you whichever way you use them. Sometimes just thinking about them is worth the money on its own.

Sorry Missuri_Rebel but I don't understand exactly your concern about monster games, is it for time constrain or too much stuff to check every turn or because are too long?

Case Blue is not a real monster, yes hundreds of units but with less factors to take in account, i.e. for keep your units in good supply status is enough to check that you are within 100 AP from the supply source, totally a different approach respect to WitE, also the Air warfare is easy to manage.

Vic made a good job with this title and it seems more balanced respect the previous one (WtP).

perhaps it would be useful if you would tell us which are you favorites strategy game(s)and why?

It would also be helpful if you could say, what you are expecting / hoping for. And what is a No-Go?

Hmmm. Tough question really. And if I was to be completely honest with myself I would say that I must like shiny new things and the thought of just messing around with them. I have way more games that I never played than any that I did with any regularity. I seem to buy almost all new Matrix games and devote a variable amount of time learning them, some more than others. As I have collected boardgames, many that are still unpunched, I seem to relish reading the rules and trying to decipher the flow of the game without ever really playing much.

I actually went through a list of games that I played more than others and came to the conclusion that there is no link between the ones I actually got into and the ones I didn't. I can't put my finger on why some games click for me while others don't. I would put the vast majority of those that I never got into not because they were bad games, but because I never devoted the time to fully appreciate them. There was always that new shiny toy that just got released that received my limited time and attention.

I do know that I think I want the monster games but when it comes time to play, I wildly rush through my turns and don't devote the time to make thoughtful decisions. Pretty soon I seem to move as far as I can and attack as much as I can without considering a clear overall goal. I want to play them better, but I guess my attention span isn't that good. I did enjoy the Decisive Battles series until it became stale to me and that would probably be the closest thing to DCCB that I played with any regularity. But that was then.

In essence I think I just enjoy buying these games because I have the means to and I know I can always at least fiddle around with them even if I don't ever play them much. Must be some kind of sickness as I am looking at a list of about 35 games on my HD that I mess around with and go back to even if I don't stay with them.

So it comes down to if I want to spend 40 bucks to see the new toy. I usually break down and buy them as my willpower is not that strong. I honestly wouldn't have to buy a game again in my life if I would be content with what I own now, especially considering my limited free time.

Hope this makes sense because I've had a few drinks while BB-Qing with the missus.

p.s. I like installing mods and frequent patches that adds new features. Maybe I need to follow Scouseair68s' advice and try WtP first.

Thanks for the consideration but I am afraid I am hopelessly helpless. The toy is still shinning btw.

mo reb

You sound more like a collector - not like a gamer. Maybe this is your true nature?

Blind Sniper-I think it is more that I forget what each unit's goal was from turn to turn. I min/max too much.

Templar- I think you are partially right although here are the games that I played a lot of and played through several times;

Forge of Freedom - played a ton Commander War In Europe - a lot Birth of America - some Korsun Pocket - several times Battle In Normandy - most scenarios Conquest- still quite often for a quick little game before bed Achtung Panzer Op Star- The latest game that has taken a lot of my free time. Absolutely love it Combat Mission BO & BtoB- Extensively played 'back in the day' Close Combat- Played a bunch long ago but realized I didn't care for it that much anymore when I purchased a Matrix release Conflict of Heroes- Played it so much that I have burnt myself out on it for a while Hearts of Iron 1 - many many times Hearts of Iron 2 - not as much Hearts of Iron 3 - barely any Distant World and expansion - played through 3 full games or so, the genre is new to me World War One Gold by Ageod - probably my favorite 'larger' game. Just a beautiful and ambitious title imo Battlefield Academy - played every scenario and a bit of MP

Games that got little play

Unity of Command - great fresh game that became a little too puzzle like Panzer Corps - brought me back to my Allied and Panzer General days but again became too puzzle like Battlefront- just not enough content Storm Over the Pacific- liked the game o.k., not crazy bout the graphics

Games that were bought and never played through

War in the Pacific - could never grasp the game, know nothing of the theater which made it nearly impossible War in the Pacific AE - same War in the East - just seems daunting, didn't devote the time Conquest of the Agean - didn't care for the spectator nature of the game, real or perceived Ageod American Civil War - messy map, confusing mechanics yet a period I enjoy Advanced Tactics Gold - seemed dated when bought. Hated the UI and lack of sound effects Birth of America Wars in America - think the ship had sailed by the time I bought it Time of Fury - never devoted the time yet, have fiddled with it quite a bit War Between the States - never devoted the time Tillers Campaign Series - too dated to regain a place in my wargamming heart Op Art of War - too dated to regain a place in my wargamming heart Panzer Command Ostfront - wanted to love it but was not crazy bout the infantry model, the sounds or the platoon style orders

There are others but you get the picture. So I do and have played quite a bit, I think I'm just looking for that next great thing hoping to be sucked right in. By what I have listed here it seems like I prefer squad based tactical games and Grand Strategy the most. It seems like the biggest of games get fiddled with and never finished or even scratched in some cases. I would probably put this game in that category.

But is that truth enough to keep me from dropping the $40 on it? I doubt it.

Thanks again for the replies. I think I have revealed things to myself that I have often wondered about and come to the conclusion that I am both a gamer and a collector. It's comforting to know that I can always just fire up any of these games at any time in the future with the advent of such large hard drives. They are all installed as are many more mainstream games. I also realize that some of the games I listed deserve more of my attention before I cast them aside.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul **A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

If the scale of WitE put you off, then this game might intimidate you as well at the full campaign scenario level. However, there are a few smaller scenarios included (much smaller) and I expect the modding community will add a lot more.

The game is complex, but I find that most of the deeper complexity is completely logical and realistic, whereas WitE had a large number of quirky game tricks (skills?) you needed to master that bore no relation to real life.

Tsk Tsk Tsk. It matters not as it is installing as I type. Willpower schmillpower.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul **A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

It's doing just great. Spent about 45 minutes skimming over it and initial impressions are very good. Love the counters; UI is very intuitive; map certainly functional, good feel and ambiance; prefer the font and various tabs to WitE etc.. So far I like it a lot and I honestly think that this may well be the one that didn't get away. I'm going over the manual now and am excited by the prospects.

I'd love to see a couple more zoom levels, 1 closer to display the multi unit view better and 1 in between the other views, but all is good so far. That and a true zoom to cursor action.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul **A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

Make sure you get JSME installed and enjoy the mods that are available.

Tell me more of this JSME thingy. Is it some kind of mod helper?

TIA

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul **A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

the first post in this link has the link to explain installation of JSME, last post is the download link provided by junk2drive since the JSME site isnt working. Installing and switching mods in and out are breeze with this program. I use it on 6 of my games.