Berlin, a city torn apart by war, is the perfect setting for an American president preaching peace. Ronald Reagan famously stood metres away from the Brandenburg Gate and called on the Soviet Union to tear down the Wall dividing Europe. And President Kennedy used a Cold War visit to the once and future German capital to declare: ich bin ein Berliner!

Now Barack Obama, the presidential candidate, wants to grandstand there too. But a simmering row between the German Government and the local Berlin authorities could rob the Democratic politician of a photogenic moment at the Brandenburg Gate and derail his flagship tour of Europe this month.

The plan, Obama advisers have told Der Spiegel magazine, is to use the visit on July 24 to signal an imminent improvement in the transatlantic relationship.

"The Senator was criticised in the primaries for showing insufficient interest in Europe," said the unnamed adviser. "This visit is an answer to this criticism ... the memories of John F. Kennedy's 1963 speech are still very fresh  Berlin is a bridge between East and West."

his chutzpah reigns supreme - like his presidential seal he put on the podium in front of him - that quickly disappeared in the uproar - this further example of his acting like he was already POTUS instead of just a candidate, is crass.

This man’s arrogance is colossal...

6
posted on 07/08/2008 5:38:51 PM PDT
by maine-iac7
(No trees were killed in sending this message but a large number of electrons were terrible agitated)

his chutzpah reigns supreme - like his presidential seal he put on the podium in front of him - that quickly disappeared in the uproar - this further example of his acting like he was already POTUS instead of just a candidate, is crass.

I've heard Germans who've taken it both ways. Strictly speaking, “Berliner” in this context should be taken as an adjective, as in “I am American” (German, “Ich bin Amerikaner.”) However, “I am an American” is perfectly grammatical.

“Ich bin ein Berliner” is, at worst, ambiguous and somewhat awkward. It's hard to think the listener would have construed the noun “Berliner” to mean a pastry in context. I remember seeing the speech on TV news at the time and the crowd went wild.

By the way, JFK didn't say he was a Berliner, he said that the proudest words a person could say were once “Sum cives Romanus.” but today they were “Ich bin ein Berliner.” He was praising Berlin for being in the forefront of the struggle for freedom.

Mrs. Clinton is sharpening her claws as we speak. And just who is going to come hear the messiah give his big speech? Will Germans get the day off? Will ex-pats be bussed in from other European cities? Will there be swooning...fainting?

I am Barack Obama...your Messiah...and the next leader of the free world.

“Berliner” could be a noun, a resident of Berlin (or a kind of pastry, sometimes translated “donut”) or it could be the nominiative singular masculine form of the adjective describing a person from Berlin. That’s why I deliberately chose “American” in my analogy, it could be a noun or adjective and works both ways, with the noun taking the indefinite artcle “an” just as in German it would take the article “ein”. With Dane/Danish the noun and adjectives have distinct forms.

Like I said, I’ve heard both takes on it from Germans. In the event the crowd absolutely loved it, especially in his nasal Boston accent. Or is that Bostonian accent? Or Bostoner?

I was thinking about what the strategy session must have been like to come up with this one...I can just see it now:

MEETING TO DISCUSS CAMPAIGN STRATEGY

YOUNG ADVISER 1: We have a problem. When Barack tries to talk about military related issues on the campaign trail, people snicker at him. Veterans openly laugh at him. He is viewed as a black Michael Dukakis.

YOUNG ADVISER 2: We need to show the American people that he is just as staunch and reliable on national defense as...Ronald Reagan!

YOUNG ADVISER 3: (Projectile vomits into nearby trash can)

YOUNG ADVISER 2: Sorry dude! No, I am serious! All it takes is imagery, and if we put Barack in the same settings that strong presidents were seen in, then regular voters who are as stupid as sheep will automatically make a mental connection!

YOUNG ADVISER 1: Hmmm. I think you are on to something there. Lets see...we could get him in a flight suit and fly him out to the USS Ronald Reagan...

YOUNG ADVISER 2: No. The officers, who are the bourgeoisie obviously hate him. The proletariat love him, of course, but due to rigid class distinctions, lack of trust and desire to keep them from rising to any well paying jobs, the proletariat are banned from flying the planes. We cannot trust the pilots from the privileged class to fly him safely. They might fly their planes into the ocean on purpose. No that wont work. Besides, only the Bushchimphitler wore a flight suit.

YOUNG ADVISER 3: (Timidly) And I think the flight helmets would all be too small to fit over his ears...

(YOUNG ADVISERS 1 & 2 turn and glare at him)

YOUNG ADVISER 2: How about if we set up a meeting between Putin and Barack in Iceland, the way Reagan met with Gorbachov...he could wear one of those dark overcoats...they could have the wind blowing through their hair...

YOUNG ADVISER 3: But...Barack doesnt have any hair for the wind to blow through. And Putin doesnt really either.

YOUNG ADVISER 2: The dimwit has a point. Maybe we could have Putin take off his overcoat and shirt, grab a pole...a fishing pole, and...

YOUNG ADVISER 1: Stay on focus. This is not about Putin, no matter how much we admire him. I admit he IS attractive without the clothes...er...shirt, but...we have to find some way to fool the American voters into thinking Barack is strong on defense.

YOUNG ADVISER 2: Heres an idea! How about having him appear at the Brandenburg Gate as Reagan did...

YOUNG ADVISER 3: (whines) But...Reagan was EVIL! He wanted everyone with AIDS to die! He cut all the money for AIDS research from...

YOUNG ADVISER 1: Can it. Not everything is about AIDS. We will pander to no constituency before its time. Now is not the time. Hows this: We get one of our writers to rewrite the speech that JFK gave at the Brandenburg Gate to address current issues...

YOUNG ADVISER 3: Like AIDS! And Racism! And Big Oil! And Corporate Greed!

YOUNG ADVISER 2: Yes! And we can have Barack make all the same hand motions as he speaks, the same way JFK did...(chops with his hand)

YOUNG ADVISER 3: Im on it! I have all the JFK DVDs back at my penthouse in Manhattan. This is great! Itll be just like when JFK said Mr. Khrushchev: Tear down this wall! (spoken in heavy gay Boston accent)

“All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Berlin. And therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words: Ich bin ein Berliner!”

And you´re right that his words are not understood in a “pastry context”. A jelly-filled doughnut is called “Berliner” only in West Germany. In Southern Germany it´s called “Krapfen” and in the East they name it “Pfannkuchen” - all three words describe the same thing.

27
posted on 07/08/2008 11:58:19 PM PDT
by Michael81Dus
(I believe in the One-China-Policy: One China. One Taiwan. One Tibet.)

The reaction of the german government shows where the problem is Obahma will get great campaigning pictures at least if the weather is fine.

At the historic Brandenburger Tor in front of many many celebrating people. He is very popular here in germany and will get what he wants. I have no doubt that this would be a great success for his campaign.

On the other site we as germans should not play a role in a US presidential election campaign. He can visit germany as many before but this speech has just one goal: great pictures to show the american people how popular he is and how great and easy foreign policy will be after a really unpopular president Bush

Thanks, I’m sure you’re correct. I heard the speech contemporaneously and in context, though I knew almost no German or Latin at the time. The Latin and German meaning was obvious, in context.

Kennedy made an explicit analogy of Berlin to ancient Rome. I don’t think the German crowd understood half of his Boston accented English, but they went wild when he spoke those words, “Ik (sic) bin ein Berliner.” (Kennedy clearly said “Ik”, not “Ich”.)

Like I said, Germans whom I’ve spoken to are divided, but I suspect the ones who claim he said he was a pastry are carping.

Actually, Kennedy said the phrase two times. The first time, he made the analogy to Rome: “Two thousand years ago ... (repeating because of the noise) two thousand years ago, the proudet boast was: civis romanus sum. Today in the world of freedom, the proudest boast is ´Ich bin ein Berliner´” and as he finishes his speech he said it again in the context of “all free men”.

31
posted on 07/09/2008 6:27:35 AM PDT
by Michael81Dus
(I believe in the One-China-Policy: One China. One Taiwan. One Tibet.)

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