I agree with Fr.Troy. Talks should be initiated immediately with their political representatives.
What’s that you say? They don’t have any political support? Oh well, it seemed like a good idea.

Uriop

Talking? Why not I guess. However there is nothing to negotiate. The GFA is part of UK legislation and the Constitution of Ireland. They do not accept the democratic will of any of,
A) The people of the island of Ireland
B) The people of Northern Ireland
C) The people of the Republic of Ireland
D) The people of the United Kingdom
so on what basis should they be given political traction in the making of any decision?

Unless they are arguing for the secession of some small part of Ireland where their supporters are the majority there is not even any issue of an unfair boundary enclosing an unrepresented demos. What is there to discuss?

TAFKABO

The statement in full.

We don’t know what we want but we’re going to keep killing catholic policemen until we get it.

Signed

Out O’Touch.

Chairman
32 cunty gunmen committee.

picador

Turgon,

As a purist yourself surely you must admire the ideologically uncompromising nature of the 32CSM?

Or perhaps their recognition of the Dublin government rankles – yes, they stayed with Adams back in ’86. In that case it can only be the utterly uncompromising RSF

Jim Allister / Ruairí O Bradaigh – two sides of the same coin. What do you reckon?

Granni Trixie

Surely one of the lessons from NI is that talking to terrorists works? Granni Trixie

KieranJ

In 1922, Eamon de Valera made the following statement following the assassination of Field Marshal Henry Wilson in London :

The killing of a human being is an awful act, but as awful when the victim is the humble worker or peasant, unknown outside his own immediate neighbourhod, as when the victim is placed in the seats of the mighty and his name known in every corner of the earth. It is characteristic of our hypocritical civilisation that it is in the latter case only we are expected to cry out and express our horror and condemnation.

I do not know who they were who shot Sir Henry Wilson, or why they shot him.

I know that life has been made a hell for the nationalist minority in Belfast and its neighbourhood for the past couple of years.

I do not approve but I must not pretend to misunderstand.

Comrade Stalin

I am not opposed in principle to the concept of dialogue, but I am wondering what we would have to talk to the dissidents about. What does anybody think they want to discuss ?

Comrade Stalin

KieranJ, it’s all very well for you over there in the USA, but some of us actually have to live here, and we’d rather do without the armchair lectures, thankyou very much.

KieranJ

That was not a lecture. I simply posted the words of the longest serving elected head of state in history.

NCM

32CSM to Brits: “Get out.”

Brits to 32CSM: “No.”

32CSM to Brits: “F*** you.”

Brits to 32CSM: “No, f*** you.”

Uriop

The BBC are reporting that the 32 County Sovereignty Movement has warned that the conflict will not end unless Britain renounces its claim to sovereignty over Northern Ireland.

But the Republic no longer claims sovereignty over Northern Ireland.

Oh, I get it now, they’re Hugh Ross’s secret army of the Ulster Independence Movement!

Uriop

@KieranJ

I know that life has been made a hell for the nationalist minority in Belfast and its neighbourhood for the past couple of years.

I do not approve but I must not pretend to misunderstand.

I completely missed your point. Made a hell by what? Off duty British squaddies and Polish Pizza delivery men? Dissident Republicans?

sammy bacon

There is only one word for the 32 county s.c. and their murdering brownshirts – fascists.

They are a tiny minority, and if you dont agree with their undemocratic demands – you will be shot.

Also, please stop conning yourself with all this dark ages reterick about the ‘brits are still in ireland’. Yes, about 1 million people in Northern Ireland are British and profess themselves so. (Although it is a spectrum and many profess a combined Britishness/Irishness, or neither). So yes, all those Brits, predominantly Protestants who were born in NI and whose ancestors since 1600AD were likewise born, are still in Ireland. And through the Good Friday agreement they reached an accommodation with Irish Catholics, North and South, that this would remain so through the CONSENT PRINCIPLE. Therefore, Brits are still in Ireland through CONSENT. Deal with it, and don’t shoot.

T.R.O.H.V.M

‘They do not accept the democratic will of any of,
A) The people of the island of Ireland….’

That is seriously some funny shit coming from a unionist.

Uriop

T.R.O.H.V.M

That is seriously some funny shit coming from a unionist.

Have a good laugh then. Glad to be of service. Any disagreement with the substance? Who or what do they purport to represent? The majority in Ireland who really just had their fingers crossed behind their back when they voted in 1998?

T.R.O.H.V.M

Then by extension you must consider the creation of the northern statelet to be the undemocratic and immoral fiasco it most certainly was. It seems you want to have your cake and eat it. Learn to live with your logic.

TCMSOLS

My objective as long as I breath the air that our lord allows me is to take the Northern Estate away from that old royal bitch.

frustrated democrat

The only talks needed are the ones across a table in a PSNI interview room and then in a court room.

We are dealing with fanatisists who have no interest in dialogue, they are blind to the desires of the people in Ireland – North and South.

It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

frustrated democrat

I agree with your sentiment but I think media exposure would do them serious damage in a debating forum e.g. Lets Talk.

Uriop

Then by extension you must consider the creation of the northern statelet to be the undemocratic and immoral fiasco it most certainly was. It seems you want to have your cake and eat it. Learn to live with your logic.

It’s you that needs to take a logic pill. Saying that the 32CSM do not respect the opinion of the people of Ireland says nothing about whether I believe that any of the entities listed, not just that one, should have a veto on the wishes of the people of NI. Hence my listing of different entities.

Look at their statement of what they want,

“What is required to resolve it is an end to British Parliamentary activity in Ireland so that the people of the island can come to their own democratic arrangements as to how we govern ourselves.”

But the people of the island have already come to their own democratic arrangements as to how we govern ourselves. Were the evil British pointing a gun to Gerry Adams head? To Bertie Ahern’s head? To the heads of every man and woman who stepped in a polling booth in 1998? Were they all fed mind control drugs in the water supply?

Uriop

Look at this brilliant one from their statement,

We note the ritual chorus of condemnation emanating from Leinster House. Far from reflecting a unity of purpose it represents a bankruptcy of will from that institution to pursue the objective of a Sovereign Irish Republic. From its inception Leinster House abandoned the Irish people in the Six Counties. It abandoned them further under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

Are they not aware that northern nationalists voted overwhelmingly for the GFA? That their representatives sat down around a table and negotiated the thing in the first place?

How the hell does the GFA represent the southern government abandoning northern nationalists? The convolutions necessary to even try to hold these ideas together is mind numbing.

Turgon

picador,“As a purist yourself surely you must admire the ideologically uncompromising nature of the 32CSM”

Not having a go at you at all and I see where you are coming from. However, the answer is no I cannot admire their ideological purity as it involves killing people. Remember that I have openly and repeatedly stated that if I thought that a united Ireland would have prevented the murder and mayhem of the last 40 years I personally would have acquiesced to it.

Scaramoosh

Three men have been arrested over the Real IRA murder of two British soldiers in Antrim last weekend.A PSNI spokeswoman said the men aged 41, 32 and 21 were detained and taken to the Antrim serious crime suite for questioning.

It was Sammy McNally what done it

Uriop,

The position of the 32County-whatever-they-are-called is pretty simple – although the majority of the Irish Nation (and British mainlanders?) probably believe that partition was wrong they believe the GFA is a good compromise. The dissers however dont agree because it doesnt end partition and they seem to think that anyone supporting the GFA is therfore abandoning ‘republican’ ideals – so these mad feckers want to fight on.

Lets get them on the telly and let the oxygen of publicity do its job in exposing just how isolated they are.

T.R.O.H.V.M

Uriop through your criticism of the 32CSC you have single-handley laid bare the undemocratic nature of unionism and its establishment of the northern statelet. Perhaps you didn’t mean to, but you have, thankyou 😉

Jimmy

People should read Patrick Murphys analysis in the Opinion page of the Irish News, Titled.

”McGuinness Dons Mask of Dev in History Cycle”

Basically he is arguing that what we are seeing is simply History repeating itself, McGuinnes and PSF are acting like Gosgrove 1922 etc and accusing McGuinnes of gross hypocricy ie the same strategy (of the dissidents) was caried out by PIRA for 30 years. Its a very good read and I think sums up I think PSF in Government and perhaps why the so called dissidents exist.
In my opinion the disidents are a reaction to the folly of failure of PSF to deliver and indeed actively pursue the policies of the De Valera nd Cosgrove Policies.

whatabouterer

32CSC –

“If the conflict in Ireland is to end once and for all, so too must the illegal British claim to sovereignty over the Six Counties”

THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT –

“it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by
agreement between the two parts respectively and without external
impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination…

“if, in the future, the people of the island of Ireland exercise
their right of self-determination… to bring about a united Ireland, it will be a binding obligation on
both Governments to introduce and support in their respective Parliaments
legislation to give effect to that wish”

Britain gave up it’s claim to sovereignty 11 years ago. Sovereignty over Ireland is now clearly in the hands of the people of Ireland, and they have exercised it by voting overwhelmingly for the current system. The only people who reject the sovereign wishes of the Irish people are the Real IRA and their psychopathic friends. Isn’t it about time these dissidents dropped the constitutional pretence and admitted that they just really really like killing people?

6 County Prod

Turgon: I have openly and repeatedly stated that if I thought that a united Ireland would have prevented the murder and mayhem of the last 40 years I personally would have acquiesced to it.

I am amazed at such a thought. What are you doing in the TUV? Do Jimbo and Ivor, etc know you think like that? Sounds a lot more Chamberlainian than Churchillian to me!

earnan

“Sovereignty over Ireland is now clearly in the hands of the people of Ireland”

No, it’s not. If 100% of those in the southern state and 49.9% of those in the northern state vote for unity (making about 85% for unity), guess what? It doesn’t happen.

The unionist veto is still there. Although we can both agree taht killing soldiers, policemen, and others will not change that fact now anymore than it did before

Turgon

6 County Prod,
Sorry but it is recorded on this web site on several occasions that I have said that. I am utterly opposed to violence and loathe the death of anyone.

I am afraid that I do not think that accepting a united Ireland in 1968 or whenever would have resulted in less deaths. As a matter of fact I think it would have resulted in more.

However, had acquiescence in a UI by unionists prevented all those deaths I would have acquiesced.

It is a largely (actually entirely) theoretical argument but that is my position.

Incidentally despite being something of a student of 20th century history I am not a huge fan of Churchill.

John Trehame

There is no point in talking to these republican terrorists. I doubt that they ever sat down and debated amongst themselves as to their strategy to achieve their goals.

They have no interest in the ballot, bloodlust is their creed.

If this is the start of another “armed struggle” then there is little to be done. It is difficult for any open democratic state to defeat a handful of people bent on murder. This is no victory for them, merely an aspect of an open society.

After the futile senseless violence ends, as it will, Northern Ireland will remain. This generation of killers will learn what those who went before them learned; the “British presence” in Northern Ireland is not a government, it is not an army, it is a people who are British and who will endure.

The terrorists will cause pain, they will raise the poison between those locally who adhere to Britain and those who are solely Irish. In the end nothing will change, the choice will always be between compromise and conflict.

anne warren

Turgon wrote:
“. . . . if I thought that a united Ireland would have prevented the murder and mayhem of the last 40 years I personally would have acquiesced to it”.
The past is past. Shall we look to the future?

Will you stand by that statement if the tense is changed?
“. . . . if I think that a united Ireland will prevent the murder and mayhem of the next 40 years I personally will acquiesce to it”. ?

Admittedly none of us is a seer but given the past few days . . . .

Turgon

anne warren,
It would be completely logically inconsistent to answer anything but yes. However, do I think that a united Ireland would produce peace: absolutely not.

As I said it is a theoretical argument, but for what it is worth

anne warren

Turgon
Thank you for your reply which I take to mean

“. . . . as I do not think that a united Ireland will prevent the murder and mayhem of the next 40 years I personally will not acquiesce to it”.

Please feel free to correct if I have misunderstood.

You go on to say it was “a theoretical argument, but for what it is worth”
Not very much it seems.

Any suggestions for a more practical approach? Perhaps an exploration of why you think a UI will not produce peace?

Turgon

anne warren,
Fair questions which I will try to answer. To be honest I think the chances of such a peaceful transformation are so unlikely that I do not have a fully developed strategy for it. I do, however, feel that whether this is part of the UK or RoI is not and was never (at the very least not in my life time) worth any deaths. I seem in a substantial majority in that opinion: unfortunately majorities have always seemed to be sidelined on this issue.

As to why I think there would be violence:
I think the loyalists would inevitably start a campaign of terrorism. I doubt it would get that much support but it would get some. I must admit to thinking that the area I was brought up in would rapidly become a sort of South Armagh of South Londonderry.

I also think that many republican terrorists would continue. I do not see the IRA campaign of the last 40 years as an attempt to remove the British army but a campaign against the unionist section of the community: Kingsmills, La Mon, Darkley, Enniskillen etc, etc. The IRA may claim to be fighting for a socialist Ireland. In reality I submit they were and are fighting for an ethnically pure socialist state with the word nationalist inserted at the appropriate point in that last clause.

In a united Ireland I do not think the forces at the disposal of the RoI government would be adequate to stop violence from either side and as such I believe an albeit low key civil war would drag on for years.