Americandave wrote:It's a shame because they do have a really unique, cool style. To go from not being able to get them to not being able to flip them is a major failure on the company's part.

Seems like they just couldn't stay on top of features that would justify the prices that their early hits reached.

IMO that's a sweeping generalization. If you mean you can't flip them for a profit or for close to MSRP then that's true, but how many watches will return your investment on resale?

I see plenty of Panerais marked 'sold' on watchrecon. I sold my 111 last year for a price that wasn't very much less than I paid several years before. Unfortunately I see lots of delusional sellers asking close to current MSRP for used Panerais and of course the watches sit unsold.

I think your comment about the change in availability of Panerais applies to other brands as well. It was only a handful of years ago that you could not find an IWC Big Pilot in stock at an AD. They were sold before they ever hit the display case. Now every AD I've visited in the past couple of years has one languishing in the case. The watch market simply isn't what it was.

extrapolating the health of the watch market based on the health of two richemont brands that were badly managed, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Forgot about this thread until now. I do agree with Andrew - Panerai essence is the basic stuff - 000, 112, 111, etc. As reflected on the used market, those will sell for closest to their "as new" prices because they are still damned good and simple watches. Some of their earlier more complicated classics do ok as well - such as the 233 and 270. I still have my 366 and 270, they're some of my favorite watches.

However, while every company has horror service experiences and poor resale value (even Rolex is not immune - anyone try selling a sky dweller lately?), Panerai is the only major company in recent times to directly lie to its customers (the same customers who fought to buy some of their more special and limited pieces because , in part, of their value retention). A good example is the bronzo - "we won't make another bronze watch" was a direct quote from Angelo. And soon, the 507 was born. Same with the 448 and 449 - "1,500 pieces" suddenly became 3,000. Let's also not forget Panerai is famous for making those oor pieces, albeit in much more limited (usually sub 20) quantity since the very beginning.

Once the loyal paneristi stopped trusting the brand in protecting its value retention began dumping their watches (and often moving to Patek, Lange, AP, and Rolex), the brand image changed in a very short period. Along with the perception change came the used market crash , all while the company itself seemed oblivious and continue to pump out record volumes and contributing to over supply. This effect is most notable on the serious collector "investment grade" pieces - the 203 at its height was a $100k watch. I wouldn't pay $50k for one now. To a lesser degree, the 127 was trading in the low $20ks three years ago - you'd beg someone to buy one for $12k today. Of course, I still love my 233/270s, but I'm not paying $8k for one anymore .

I love the watches but have to agree about the brand - the price increases and hubris about what they could sell just got out of hand.

If they keep current pricing I'd like to see something like a strap club, where you get both clasps and two straps and then maybe new straps every year for the warranty period. While I'm living the pipe dream if they moved 000 production to Florence and restarted it as a historic type line I'd be all over it in a heartbeat just to get something different to the big Swiss makers.

They're at risk of becoming Hublot at current speed. Funny enough, last I went to check out Panerai it was right next to the hublot display.

Totally with Zack Up until maybe three years ago, Panerai was by far my favorite brand. Now, while I love my 372, and would be a happy owner of a number of the brand's pieces, I just don't care for the brand itself anymore.

blkgsl wrote:Forgot about this thread until now. I do agree with Andrew - Panerai essence is the basic stuff - 000, 112, 111, etc. As reflected on the used market, those will sell for closest to their "as new" prices because they are still damned good and simple watches. Some of their earlier more complicated classics do ok as well - such as the 233 and 270. I still have my 366 and 270, they're some of my favorite watches.

However, while every company has horror service experiences and poor resale value (even Rolex is not immune - anyone try selling a sky dweller lately?), Panerai is the only major company in recent times to directly lie to its customers (the same customers who fought to buy some of their more special and limited pieces because , in part, of their value retention). A good example is the bronzo - "we won't make another bronze watch" was a direct quote from Angelo. And soon, the 507 was born. Same with the 448 and 449 - "1,500 pieces" suddenly became 3,000. Let's also not forget Panerai is famous for making those oor pieces, albeit in much more limited (usually sub 20) quantity since the very beginning.

Once the loyal paneristi stopped trusting the brand in protecting its value retention began dumping their watches (and often moving to Patek, Lange, AP, and Rolex), the brand image changed in a very short period. Along with the perception change came the used market crash , all while the company itself seemed oblivious and continue to pump out record volumes and contributing to over supply. This effect is most notable on the serious collector "investment grade" pieces - the 203 at its height was a $100k watch. I wouldn't pay $50k for one now. To a lesser degree, the 127 was trading in the low $20ks three years ago - you'd beg someone to buy one for $12k today. Of course, I still love my 233/270s, but I'm not paying $8k for one anymore .