Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

Comments

Here in Northern California the dealers seem to have few of these vehicles. My home town dealerships just got the Envoy and TB this week, and only one each. I have never seen any on the road, and I do a fair amount of driving. The only way to get one here seems to be to order. That will likely change in the coming months.

Here in SE KS, the Envoys are pretty non-existant on the dealer lots. To date, I have only seen 3 of them. Even if there had been a big selection, I usually order anyway because I want my vehicle exactly the way I like it. If my dealer had such a vehicle, I would have bought it. However, I tend to load up a new vehicle because I keep them a long time. Better to get exactly what you want if you are going to have it for 6-8 years, even if you have to wait for it to be built. Also, I find you get a better deal on an ordered unit the vast majority of the time.

No, it's the same up here. AutoTrac is basically part-time 4WD with an auto mode. Upon slippage of the rear wheels, power is automatically transfered to the front wheels. It is a reactive system. SmartTrac is basically the same except that it doesn't have a low range and there is power flowing to all four wheels at all times. It is more of a proactive system than AutoTrac, but it is still not a true permanent AWD system. Both AutoTrac and SmartTrac systems have their pros and cons. SmartTrac is more for people who want AWD for driving in foul weather on roads.

Kay Jarboe is correct in that both systems respond in a similar fashion. However mechnically, both are different.

On my Envoy, the daytime driving lights (only) come on whether or not the wipers are set to delay (rain sense) or not. The headlights do not come on in daylight unless manually turned on. It doesn't matter if the wipers are on or not.

Question for Envoy owners. How do you find the driver seat on a long drive. I test drove both the SLT and SLE and couldn't get comfy. I couldn't pin it down - maybe the seats did not provide enough support (I am 6'). The seats were not unfortable but not as nice as the Yukon.

I am tring to convince myself to purchase the Envoy. Better looking, more toys and better mpg than the Yukon.

In daylight: With the vehicle running and the parking brake off the daytime running lights should be on (I am assuming you have a US spec vehicle.). If you turn your windshield wipers on (to any setting) after about the 45 seconds all vehicle lights (including the dash lights) should come on just as if it were dark. If you have a small green indicator light (I have one on the Bravada), next to the light switch, that should glow. Once the wipers are switched off they should go back to just the DRLs after about 45 seconds.

If yours do not do this then there is a malfunction with your vehicle and you need to have it taken care of by your dealer. Your owners manual should indicate this also.

We have an Envoy SLT and find the seats very comfortable. My hubby is 6'6" and he has no complaints on the seat comfort. His only complaint is the seat belt position. With the belt coming from the seat itself rather than the pillar, it pulls down on his shoulder.

I do not feel that the lack of a manually (mechanical or electrical) switched transfer case (as on the AWD Bravada) is not as good as that on the Envoy/TB. With the Bravada, the rear wheels are driven, 100%, unless slippage is detected whereas power is transferred to whichever wheel(s) have the most traction.

I had a Blazer with the electronic transfer case when I lived in California and made many (nearly every weekend) trips to the Tahoe area all year long. My sister had a Bravada with pretty much the same system as todays(although less refined) than the current system. With the Blazer I always used 4HI when any amount of snow or ice was on the ground. In fact, the only time I ever switched it to 4LO was soon after getting the vehicle just to try it out. I would often drive my sisters Bravada also. Quite frankly, I never noticed a difference, other than not having to push a switch. Several times I would arrive and/or wake up to and have to back out of 6-8 inches of snow on the driveway. Both vehicles performed equally well. The thing I liked about the Bravada is that it actually SAVED fuel because it switched back and forth automatically. I'm sure there were several times that I used the 4HI in the Blazer around town during the winter when I didn't need to.

I live in the Atlanta area now and used the 4HI on the Blazer several times whether it was ice, snow or rain. Now that I have the Bravada I have noticed several times, while it was storming, that the car is much more stable (most likely meaning that it is transfering power when I would normally not have switched to 4HI in the Blazer).

I think of it this way, the real reason we go for 4 or all wheel drive is traction during snow/ice/rain conditions. I don't even remember the last time I heard of anyone actually taking their SUV "4-wheeling". That is the only case where I would say you definitely would want the switchable system.

Just bought a Trailblazer (haven't picked it up yet, later this week) through local dealer (Metro Detroit), I got supplier discount, $1000 certificate from leasing a worthless Alero, and I will eventually get money back from MAC because I prepaid lease on Alero. Anyway, all my friends are engineers for big three and suppliers, so I get quite a bit of info from them. Here is an small clip of what one guy said.

"I only have one piece of advice for you. Don't let the fuel run down to the low fuel light. I have been in some discussions with individuals that are frantically scurrying around in an attempt to write a new fuel gage calibration.It seems that there have been a number of drivers who have run out of fuel before the vehicle ever turned the low fuel light on. They didn't leave good messages with their dealers as they were walking down the freeway to the nearest gas station"

Legalwizard - I am glad you are so pleased with your 1991 Bravada and that it held up to the test of the Minnesota winters! I have had an opportunity to drive in a 1991 Bravada in Minnesota just a few months ago, and was quite pleased with the performance (although it did need a good vacuuming!!) The AWD (not WAD) system in your 1991 Bravada is a full-time system, meaning that you are always sending power to the front axle, so you are always in AWD mode. The 2002 Bravada has an ""On Demand" system. The Bravada monitors axle speed every 48 milliseconds. If it senses slippage, it engages AWD in ¼ of a second to transfer power to the front axle. This system helps to provide better gas mileage and less wear on your AWD components. Buy one - you will love it!

Danfinnxyz - SmartTrak is a combination of the On Demand AWD, the locking rear differential axle, and the ABS brakes. As far as operation of the transfer case, the Bravada monitors axle speed (not the ABS sensors) every 48 milliseconds. If it senses slippage, it engages AWD in ¼ of a second to transfer power to the front axle. This operation is the same as the Auto 4WD found on the TrailBlazer and Envoy. The locking rear differential is standard on the Bravada. When you are driving at low speeds, and one of your rear wheels loses traction, this feature will limit wheelspin to help make the most of available traction. SmartTrak does not have any switches or levers, so you cannot manually lock it into 4WD. It is designed to put the optimum amount of power to the front and rear axles.

We took a 1600 mile round trip the first weekend we had the Envoy. We did the first 800 miles starting at noon (I worked sitting at my desk in the morning) and drove till 2 AM. We stopped for a total of 22 minutes (the ET clock helped with that) for fuel and washroom breaks along the way. We were none the worse for wear.

I'm not convinced that a seat that feels really comfortable for a few moments in a showroom or short test drive provides the support required for travelling comfort.

It's not a matter of getting used to it. I have driven new vehicles, cars, trucks, suburbans, etc. for years and never had this problem. It locked up when I wasn't even in the car. When I went to get in and put my belt on, it would not extend out. It wouldn't even pull out one inch. It was locked in the resting position as if nobody was in the seat.

In my case I've found that the lumbar support simply supports a bit more than it should. Perhaps in time it'll get a little softer. I looked at an SLT model but quite frankly didn't like all the gadgets and buttons. Also, leather upholstery in Souther Arizona in the summer time makes a guy have a tendency to jump out of his car very quickly while rubbing his hindside shortly after getting in. So I obviously ended up with an SLE with cloth upholstery and am quite happy with it. After getting a few miles on the car I checked my gas mileage. 16 1/2 MPG city. I haven't had it on the road yet.

King1079 is pretty close on the low fuel warning. My TB goes down to about 2 gallons (actually I think a little less)before the bells and messages come on. That doesn't leave a lot of time to dill-dally around before refueling. You definitely need to re-examine your refueling habits if you travel on many deserted highways. But then again, you always have that blue button on the rear-view mirror to punish them with.

It looks like I only have two ways to go as far as options go, assuming I want a 4WD Envoy SLT:

Off-Road package and Pro Tow + air suspension + 6 disc CD:If I choose this, I give up rain sensing wipers, travel note recorder and polished wheels.I get the underbody shields and the 3.73 axle that I prefer. I also save about $72.

Premium Package and Pro Tow:I give up the shields and am stuck with the 4.10 axle, but get the rain sense, travel note and polished wheels.

Now, I realize I can add the polished wheels to the off road package, but then I am paying more and getting possibly less.

I don't really care about the travel note thing, but I like what I hear about the rain sense. I have not seen the polished wheels yet. Are they nice?

Help me decide. I think I want the shields because I have them on my '96 Jimmy and belive they protect the truck when driving on forest roads. If you disagree, please explain.

I also think I need the air suspension. If you disagree, tell me why.

If you have either of these packages, tell me what you like/dislike about your choice.

Thanks for the feed back on the seats. I totally agree that sitting in a show room you cannot tell how the seats will be in ownership satisfaction - That's why I asked for experience. Sure is a nice vehicle and I will be trying it out a few more times. Seats are important to me because I do a lot of driving and my current seats (2 cars) are so bad that I am in pain after about 20 minutes (Acura & Honda products), especially the Acura EL (only available in Canada - basically a Civic EX). I have driven a Yukon on long trips and absolutely love the seats.

I love all the toys but don't really like leather in the hot climate. As with most vehicles you can't have one without the other. Decisions, decisions.

Tuesday, received a certified letter from Oldsmobile. In the letter was a Master Card Gift Check for $100.00. The letter was well written and the check was much appreciated. I will be even more happy when the dealer can supply me with the polished wheels that will make my red Bravada look a lot better than the cheap looking standard wheels. If you were at the Andy 500 race they put chrome wheels on the pace car and it looked sharp.

Has anyone figured out a way to vent un-heated, un-airconditioned air in their Envoy? It seems that any time the fan is on, the automatic temperature control kicks in and the air compressor runs the A/C. Some times, the air temperature outside is just right and you don't need it heated or cooled! Also, the constantly running compressor isn't going to help gas mileage.

The polished wheels are so polished that they look almost chrome. They really look nice. Before I ordered, I went to the Tire Rack website to see what aftermarket wheels there were for the Envoy that were better looking than the standard ones. There were NO aftermarket wheels available. This new 17" size with the 6 lug nut pattern must be a brand new wheel that only fits the GMT360 platform. In time, I am sure that some aftermarket wheels will become available. They just are not right now. So, if you want a nicer looking wheel, go for the polished ones. I did and am really happy about it.

Generally speaking, 4HI mode is only good for driving in stuff like mud, sand, or unplowed snow. In other conditions, all P/T 4WD systems like the one you had (and I had in my old '96 Blazer) are better off in 2HI mode when driving in rain and ice.

The reason for this is that in 4HI mode, wheel speeds are locked. This actually gives you worse traction on many surfaces, because in 2HI the front wheels rotate freely - in 4HI they are locked together. AWD is better in those type of conditions. 4HI works best for loose surfaces and pretty badly on most roads.

I'm sure there are other people out there who can explain it better than I can, but I look at it this way:

I tested again, and you are right. When the wipers are on for a short period of time, the headlights do automatically come on. When the wipers are in "automatic" (delay) mode, the headlights only come on when the wipers have been activated. i.e. in the automatic/standby mode, the headlights are turned on only when the wipers have been activated (by rain) and not all the time simply because the wiper switch is set to auto/delay. Once the wipers start (automatically) the lights do come on after a few seconds. (obviously the daytime driving lights are on when the headlights are not).

Ralfo wasn't entirely correct. You can adjust your airflow to any setting but the A/C compressor will remain on unless you push the "A/C" button. At that time, you will see a message (I think it is right above the temp readout) that says "A/C Off". Then, and only then, is the A/C compressor not running.

PS: You probably won't see much of a difference in your gas mileage. I have had automatic A/C for many cars and on all of the ones in recent years ('98 newer) I have tried full tanks of gas, during the winter, with the A/C compressor off. The results were always mixed (sometimes a couple MPG less, sometimes a couple MPG more)than when I just ran it on auto with the a/c pump on.

You see, in todays cars the actual belts that drive the A/C compressor are not as (ratio wise) dependent on the camshaft. Instead of the old serpentine belts than ran all things off of the same belts that was connected to a wheel from the camshaft, there is a much different ratio as to much power it draws from the engine. In short, if you notice any difference in MPG it should be inconsistent.

While browsing the car ads for Orlando today, I saw an ad for an Envoy priced at $26,986. It was an SLE with 1SB and moon roof (MSRP $30620). I thought surely that price was below invoice, so I checked it out and the invoice was indeed $27714! Great deal, right! Welllll, not exactly....Upon inspecting the fine print, that price included a $1000 Olds Loyalty coupon. Remember, this a GMC dealer. They are pricing vehicles as if everyone buying a car has an Olds coupon to cash in. If that were true, Olds wouldn't be going out of business! And car dealers continue to wonder why they have such bad reputations.

Just purchased 2002 bravada, while lurking on this forum since April and reading about all the recalls plus other problems I had mixed feelings.BUT after driving and buying the 02 bravada I must say that I am well pleased, fit&finish are perfect,rides and handles great, no wind,road or tire noise.. got the pewter w/polished wheels-sense wipers-sunroof-3:73 axle- plus lots of bells and whistles.. So far So good.

I am an Olds Alero customer who wants to take advantage of terminating early lease program from GM. I know I can get $1500 rebate off invoice for being Olds customer and then another $400 for recent college grad to-be. Is there any GM rebates on 2002 Trailblazer out there? I know the LT model is Inv. for about $25,800 w/o dest. charge. Realisticly, not sure how GM is acting on selling the new 2002 with rebates, but what does anybody feel a good price would be for LT Trailblazer? I know Chevy has 3% holdback. Figuring in rebates is always tough to get in car dealers...