The Ultimate Shit Test: Marriage

I’ll be brief – I’m a fan. Game has made my marriage palatable, and I thank you and the rest of the community for that. However, I wanted to submit a sort of “public service announcement” to the community. Hopefully so men everywhere can avoid the mistake I made. Do with this what you wish, but hopefully you’ll post it:

————————————————————————————————————————
I’m like alot of men – probably safe to say “most” men. I’m 35. I’m a handsome fellow. I’m reasonably successful. I’m fit – probably more fit than I should be at my age – due to years of pent up frustration released on various pieces of innocent gym equipment and “recreational” 5Ks. You would probably look at me if you passed me and my family on the street and think I’ve got my shit together. I’ve got a pretty, fit wife who wears stylish clothes, and I’ve got two gorgeous sons.

You’d probably think that I’m a happy man – or at least that I SHOULD be a happy man. You’d be wrong.

I’ve spent countless hours thinking about the uninspired, passionless albatross of a marriage that constantly tugs at my neck. Countless hours thinking about how incredible it would be to actually get to use my dick more than a couple of times a year. Countless hours spent lamenting my shitty marriage with my equally miserable married buddies. I’ve thought about divorce a dozen times, but social pressures and family expectations have always held me back (“grow up – sex isn’t that important!” “but you’ve got such a lovely family!” etc.). I lived in a constant state of crisis for years until one day an old friend of mine introduced me to the CHsphere.

I’ve DEVOURED all manner of PUA/MRA/CHganda with the appetite of a starved child. And I’ve come to some startling conclusions.

I won’t waste too much of your time with my personal story (trust me, it is completely interchangeable with any one of millions of men’s in this country). But I have come away with one priceless gem that I believe all men MUST be made aware of. It’s as common as a McMansion in an outlying suburb, yet its as powerful and menacing a beast as any you’ll ever encounter:

When a woman pressures you mercilessly to marry her, bullying to the point of threatening a break up – this is the shit test of ALL shit tests. Treat it as such – If you fail this shit test, you are RUINED. FOR…LIFE..

For those of you who haven’t lived through it, let me go through the script:

You’ll meet a girl. She’ll seem perfect in a lot of ways. Not only will you get to hang out with your friends whenever you want, go out to bars with your buds, etc. but she’ll encourage it. And she’ll have her own life and she’ll go out with her friends. She’ll be game for the booty call, and she’ll do filthy things in your bed (and out of your bed). She’ll fuck in public bathrooms, she’ll fuck you and blow you in cars. She’ll bend over willingly and she might even swallow. Nothing will be off limits, sexually, and she’ll wake up your neighbors proclaiming how much she loves to get fucked by you.

She’ll watch football with you, maybe even become a fan of your team. She’ll watch movies with you that you know she hates, and she’ll do it with minimal whining. She’ll cook you special meals, pick up random gifts, and generally be a perfect girlfriend. You can leave her to pay the check, shrug at her requests for attention and affection, blow off her birthday, and generally just live a normal bachelor life but with the added benefit of having a consistent and exciting lay.

Then one day it will all come to a screeching halt.

I’m not quite sure what causes it – I suspect its a “special” night out with her yenta friends. A night spent drinking and dreaming about designer wedding dresses, champagne flutes, Pottery Barn registries, and giant rocks. Whatever the case, sooner or later they end up muttering to each other how unbelievable it is that their boyfriend hasn’t popped the question and made the self-absorbed dream that they’ve held dear since they were a little girl into an expensive and soul-sucking reality. They might even become hostile – proclaiming what a “waste of time” it is to date this horrible creature who is so selfish that he’s denying them a $50k masturbatory spectacle that benefits no one but them, and a subsequent life of enslavement and misery. Things will get desperate, and you’ll start seeing the signs.

There will be inexplicable weeping at inopportune times. Cold shoulders for no apparent reason. Sex will dry…up. Blow jobs will be something you only see in pornos. Hints at marriage will drop like snowflakes at first – then like a barrage of hail. Any resistance to the wedding yap will incite riots of rage and tears, and screams of “if you loved me you’d want to marry me!!” and “why am I wasting my time with you?!!”

This is the beginning of the end, my friend. And you should fucking RUN…LIKE…HELL!

You see, there is no winning this fight. I know – I tried. But there is no victory – and there sure as shit are no spoils. I know what you’ll be thinking: “I don’t really want to break up yet – maybe its time to settle down?” and “surely the sex will resume once we get over this hump and get married?” You’ll start wistfully looking at little kids on the street, thinking “maybe I’d make a cool dad?” and “I’m not gittin any younger – maybe this is for the best.” You’ll fall prey to the oldest trick in the book – thinking that things will get “better” if you just cave to this, the queen of all shit tests.

Listen to me – things will not get better. I didn’t really understand at first, but after becoming part of this community, I understand it all perfectly now. Things will not only NOT get better, but they will get much, MUCH worse. EXPONENTIALLY WORSE. To degrees that you cannot imagine. Think that you’ll start having sex again after buying that ridiculous fucking rock? Dream on – it gets WORSE. You’ll be lucky to get laid on your birthday from now on. And when you do get laid it will SUCK. The term “doggystyle” will be like a fucking cuss word in your house. Anything cool and interesting that ever happened in your bedroom will be a long lost memory.

Think your girl will relish her role as wife and cook you up a nice meal from time to time? Fuck that – get used to picking up fast food and frozen dinners. That is, unless you like to cook yourself or take it upon yourself to maintain a healthy diet – in this case, welcome to the role of homemaker, you beta pussy. And you better not have the audacity to leave it up to the Mrs. to plan/cook a meal. You’re on the hook now.

Oh and you’ve still got all of the “man duties” too, didn’t you know? Make sure the oil in BOTH cars is changed, make sure all of the tires are inflated. Want to sit on the couch and watch the game? Fuck you! Cut the grass. And pay the bills when you’re done. Mama needs to go shopping with the girls. Because hey, maybe if she buys herself something nice from time to time (and by “from time to time” I mean “increasingly” until she’s buying EXPENSIVE shit every other day) she’ll be happy again and you guys can get to fuckin again, right?

Wrong. Its over dude. You’re on a sharp, downward beta-slide that will just make her more and more revolted by the day. It was over before you started.

See, if you fail this shit test, you have failed every…single CH tenet in one fell swoop. Worse, your girl is going to have a front row seat to this total and complete collapse of your manhood. She’s gonna watch it in what seems like slow motion – like witnessing the carnage of some kind of disgusting ten car pileup where gas and steel and body parts are spewed out in a violent ballet of carnage. And make no mistake – she will be sickened. She will have to hold back the vomit upon witnessing your more-beta-than-beta act of total surrender. And your dick will be as appealing to her as a fresh turd. You will be completely and permanently doomed from that day forward, and your sex appeal will hit negative digits.

It has a sad sort of snowball effect – you’ll think that the more sensitive, caring and compassionate you become, the more she’ll reward you. But all it does is make you more beta – more repellent. She’ll hate you more by the day, and she’ll mask it less and less.

Whatever you do with your life, to whatever degree you practice game, if you remember one single thing from any of these blogs, remember this – you MUST pass the Marry-Me-Or-Else shit test. Your future depends on it. Its basically like someone holding open the door to a prison cell and cheerfully inviting you in. There’s no earthly reason for you to EVER step into that cell, and ultimately they will HATE you for getting in that cell. Not only that, but they’ll lift up their skirts and get fucked by some bad boy outside that cell – right where you can watch but are powerless to intervene. Its a cruel, beta joke and they know it. Turn it back on them – just say “NO.” The world needs another yenta wife like it needs another stinking landfill.

******

I’ve had a few instances where the girl I was dating began pressuring me for marriage. What did I do? I walked. And I will probably walk again. If a lover told me “marry me or else” I would choose “else”. I would inform her that I don’t heed ultimatums, for that road leads to soul death.

Only weak betas cave at the first hint of pressure. Fear motivates their decisions. The fear of being alone, the fear of going sexless. This fear is mostly a phantom. Remember, gentlemen, no matter how badly the dating market skews against your interests, no matter how much your woman withholds sex, no matter how deviously she threatens to leave you if she doesn’t get the ring, you hold the trump card, the dick detonator, the MOAB in the eternal battle of the sexes — you can walk away, forever.

Exercise your right to walk.

Once you’ve walked you might be surprised to see her come running back to you, suitably chastened.

Timely post. Sometimes we start second-guessing ourselves, thinking we’re deluded or wrong about the state of relationships, then guys like this come back and remind us of what we have to look forward to.

T.A.’s situation mirrors my longest LTR. Everything he wrote held true for me, I’m assuming its the same for most guys. Its funny he wrote this because I had something to say about ityesterday.

is it “shit testing” for a man to put the woman through a bunch of paces proving shes worthy before marrying? such as, seeing if she’ll react well to possessiveness, agreeing to marry but setting a far off date, demand son how she dresses and who she sees and where she goes, etc. homemaking demands.

Why seriously need to change up the game. Have to make woman produce some shit for family before marriage. Even the woman I am with now meets criteria to be able to save 2 g’s a month with me working. So yea before marriage you both save 200 g’s fuck that. Turn that shit around on the woman and do something that will benefit you both. Tell her I don’t know why I am with you we are not beating life and if we can’t beat life there is no point to existance. Then after marriage it doesn’t matter what happens you have something you both worked for in case of split.

I was having the same difficulties until I started having sex outside the marriage. It worked miracles and my marriage lasted another 7 years longer. Frankly, that was best for my kids so they could grow up and understand my predicament.

Once the kids got older, I began to to have many more sexual escapades. Eventually it hit me that I did not need to be in this marriage. I left after 13 years of misery.

Strange thing is that my ex is now a FWB and what my girlfriends don’t know won’t hurt them.

If you want kids, go have kids and get a contract prior to this so you can keep custody. But if you are a man and are attractive and fit, marriage should not be for you.

Kind of but al’s wife actually wants to have sex he doesn’t which I think is the more accurate version. I still don’t get in these guys stories is the wife saying no to sex or is the guy not initiating sex because he doesn’t want to fuck the same woman anymore but covering it up by saying she won’t fuck.

One need not defend insufferable women or women ready to divorce at the drop of a hat to state that this correspondent is probably very wrong.

Here:and I’ve got two gorgeous sons.

This is what it’s all about, fundamentally. Both marriage partners need to put aside their selfishness and their “what ifs” and focus on bringing up the next generation. Properity makes one not just fat but also whiny.

is it “shit testing” for a man to put the woman through a bunch of paces proving shes worthy before marrying? such as, seeing if she’ll react well to possessiveness, agreeing to marry but setting a far off date, demand son how she dresses and who she sees and where she goes, etc. homemaking demands.

or is there another name for this?

It’s different. They’re both proving worthiness but in different ways.

The fundamental concept of the shit test is that the girl doesn’t want compliance to her demand or the man directly qualifying himself in response to her challenge, even if she thinks she does.

Your man wanted compliance, not rebellion or for you to seize leadership on those issues.

____________________
Jennifer Lopez has filed a $10 million lawsuit against ex-husband Ojani Noa, whom she claims is violating a confidentiality agreement in place since 2004 by shopping around a sexy honeymoon video the two made in 1997.

The video, called How I Married Jennifer Lopez: The J.Lo and Ojani Noa Story, reputedly includes Lopez, now 40, wearing skimpy clothing and supposedly being spanked by Noa. It reportedly also contains a fight between her and her mother.

I am reminded of a Roissy maxim along the lines of “more marriages would last if men said STFU to their wives from time to time.”

One question I’m interested in asking TA is, how did you react when your wife started slipping? I mean huge red flags like snapping at you in front of other people; or not making you dinner?

When she had PMS and bitched at you (in private) did you try to placate her, or did you pass the shit test by either leaving the room, telling her to quit being a brat, yelling back, or smothering her in a mock-loveydovey bearhug?

I’m not quite sure what causes it – I suspect its a “special” night out with her yenta friends. A night spent drinking and dreaming about designer wedding dresses, champagne flutes, Pottery Barn registries, and giant rocks. Whatever the case, sooner or later they end up muttering to each other how unbelievable it is that their boyfriend hasn’t popped the question and made the self-absorbed dream that they’ve held dear since they were a little girl into an expensive and soul-sucking reality. They might even become hostile – proclaiming what a “waste of time” it is to date this horrible creature who is so selfish that he’s denying them a $50k masturbatory spectacle that benefits no one but them, and a subsequent life of enslavement and misery. Things will get desperate, and you’ll start seeing the signs.

There will be inexplicable weeping at inopportune times. Cold shoulders for no apparent reason. Sex will dry…up. Blow jobs will be something you only see in pornos. Hints at marriage will drop like snowflakes at first – then like a barrage of hail. Any resistance to the wedding yap will incite riots of rage and tears, and screams of “if you loved me you’d want to marry me!!” and “why am I wasting my time with you?!!”

Game has made my marriage palatable, and I thank you and the rest of the community for that.

I think it would be invaluable if you could indicate what you’ve been able to change in yourself and your wife through game. Aside from the indispensable Dave from Hawaii, we’ve had very little of that. Stories of recovering a marital relationship gone south in an American context through game.

Think your girl will relish her role as wife and cook you up a nice meal from time to time? Fuck that – get used to picking up fast food and frozen dinners. That is, unless you like to cook yourself or take it upon yourself to maintain a healthy diet – in this case, welcome to the role of homemaker, you beta pussy.

So unfortunately true that I can only smile sadly in retrospect.

I maintain that marriage is the human equivalent of ritually mounting — the man.

PA – all i can say is that i had horrible game. i grew up in a family of all boys, and never knew a single thing about women. i never had any sort of game whatsoever. long story short, i was an easy target. i never knew about shit tests so i failed ALL of them. i also grew up a devout fundamental Christian – i don’t need to tell you all of the ways that that robbed me of game. my life was the perfect storm of beta enablers. that’s why i consider it my mission to help prevent this from happening to future generations. i’m starting my kids on the path to Game already – and they’re toddlers…

“I was having the same difficulties until I started having sex outside the marriage.”

This isn’t a palatable option. You will get reamed if the woman finds out. She can get everything. The house, kids, etc *and* completely justify it to herself, her friends, *your* family. She will probably also turn your kids against you.

Without casting judgement on male adultry, it isn’t a viable strategy for keeping the woman interested because the legal/social system has truncated mens options. our options have increasingly become fewer and fewer while womens’ options, while not necessarily ideal, have become less and less punished or frowned upon.

Doug1 – i’m not sure that i’m qualified to give advice on how Game saves a marriage. like i said – it made mine “palatable” but nowhere near enjoyable. in fact i’m planning a divorce in the near future.

what Game has done for me is eliminate the constant anxiety that plagued me for years – anxiety that came from thinking that this horrible marriage was somehow “right” and that i HAD to stick to it. Game showed me that all of that shit doesn’t matter – all of the social pressures and conventions.

likewise, getting to the point where i truly no longer gave a shit and felt like i could (and would) walk away at any time put me in a frame of mind that woke my wife the fuck up. i began ignoring her every request, stoically yawning at her tirades, and generally treating her like the spoiled brat that she is. within days she was eating out of the palm of my hand, and now i do probably about 20% of the stuff around the house. i go out when i want. i make plans when i want. i disappear for hours and reappear as if nothing happened. in general i do what the fuck i want. for a while i waited for the other shoe to drop, but true to Game, it never did – it just keeps getting better in terms of her moods.

sex is more complicated – essentially, i don’t want it anymore. so i’ve been on the prowl – which has been interesting. i haven’t decided if i want to say “fuck it” and wear my ring and brazenly Game other women, or if i want to hide my married status. so far i’ve hidden it and had some success, but i feel like lying is somehow anti-Game. in any case, this is the next step in my journey – hunting down and pounding the asses of 25 year old hotties. wish me luck…

He uses the term “yenta” a couple of times. I wonder if he–and his wife–are Jewish? Jews always wind up on top. This is not because of their pleasing personalities–quite the opposite! Sailer has opined about the possible “bottleneck” in Euro-Jew history,where a relatively smaller assortment of genes wind up being widespread throughout the race. (Interesting that both Jews and Muslems are characterized by lots of inbreeding.Ones IQ pushed up,one down!) Maybe this guy is suffering what lots of guys in various ethnic groups suffer:the traits that define them and their groups…arent a whole lot of fun to live with every day! I would never marry a Jewess. NEVER! I know them too well! :)

There’s this fantastic scene in American Beauty where Kevin Spacey’s character and his estranged, shrew of a wife actually look like they might fuck on the couch for the first time in a long time. He’s got a beer in his hand while he’s working her up into what is almost a genuine desire to fuck him on her part, only she constantly keeps looking at the beer while he’s kissing her and feeling her up. At one point he catches on to what she’s doing and asks her what’s wrong. She snaps out of her lust-fueled trance and weakly says “your beer, I don’t want it to spill on the couch,..” to which her replies “IT’S JUST. A FUCKING. COOOOUCH!” End of sexual encounter.

This is married sex. In fact, I can’t believe a gay guy wrote this screenplay since it’s a perfect grasp of post-marriage sex for women. All of the urgency, all of the organic genuine desire, all of the sexual tension and competition anxiety – essentially all of the motivators that make having marathon sex a pre-marriage necessity – are all removed for women and replaced with a familiarity and comfort in knowing that she can ration her sexuality at will with little or no possibility of a sexual competitor challenging her long term security.

It becomes another chore for her even in the best of circumstances. In behavioral psychology terms it’s called intermittent reinforcement – reward the subject for desired behavior just often enough and randomly enough to ensure further frequency of that behavior. Married sex is just operant behavior.

This is true. My girlfriend did the same thing…I walked…then the sky parted, lights shone down from the heavens, and a voice thundered “I can’t hear your ex-girlfriend praying from the sound of how awesome you are.”

She came back to me – in a virulent rage with insults at me that reached the heights of the gods…and then all went quiet…and her countenance changed to humiliation and complete submission with an intense love for me as she vowed to be my eternal sex slave…

There may be a lesson or two in there T.A. Can you flirt with other women in front of your wife and exploit the jealousy angle, for starters?

The biggest problem here is that once a woman is used to perceiving you as a beta in a relationship, it is V.E.R.Y. difficult to reverse that perception, no matter how hard you start gaming. The results may get better but they won’t be perfect. Learning game and getting side action seems like the only other viable option.

”””””””’Smoking Cigar
This is true. My girlfriend did the same thing…I walked…then the sky parted, lights shone down from the heavens, and a voice thundered “I can’t hear your ex-girlfriend praying from the sound of how awesome you are.”

She came back to me – in a virulent rage with insults at me that reached the heights of the gods…and then all went quiet…and her countenance changed to humiliation and complete submission with an intense love for me as she vowed to be my eternal sex slave…

…and yeah, still not married to her.
””””””””

Dangle the carrot there prob is no limit to what you can get them to do. he he he

if men learned and used game, they’d have happier marriages and and long-term relationships. marriage isn’t the enemy, lack of game is.

Nope not that simple. Game in marriage or live together LTR’s helps yes. But there’s still the enormous unfairness to men of divorce American style. Which marriage enables her to wreck on men, and hold as a power dynamics cudgel. Game may reduce the likelihood and effects, but nowhere near to zero.

As well the mere existence of the security which divorce feminist American style gives married women makes them feel too secure in the relationship, and therefore not try so much anymore. Game helps but there’s still that tidal pull that isn’t there before or without marriage.

What game can counteract is all the terrible media and other programming of both men and women today as to how the relationship between husband and wife should go in marriage. It’s terrible that there so much uphill pulling necessary though. Or should we stick with the contra tidal metaphor? This gets reinforced a little through her direct exposure to American entertainment media, but most powerfully through her girlfriends, who are seeped in the influences. Female friends tended to keep marriages together before 1960 and especially before WWII. They generally are a BIG force pulling them apart these feminist days.

As well American women have this unreasonable expectation that even their alpha husbands will never cheat, however inconsequentially if she doesn’t blow it up, which brings us back to divorce American style. At the same time they increasingly do themselves, only unlike men who rarely leave their wives these days if they have young children at home and it’s even a tolerable marriage, cheating wives often do, whether or not their husband discovers their infidelity. A lot of the “drifted apart” and “just not feeling the love, only affection” kinds of female initiated divorces are due to her infidelity breaking her female pair bonded feeling for her husband. The cheating usually makes them “realize” that they don’t love their husband any more, not just that they want some variety and something new. Besides, they’ve got no fault divorce feminist America style today.

If men what children, like right away, then marriage with a prenup mimicking living together makes sense – after a period of living together. Otherwise not so much. Live together in legal equality instead. Unless and until women agree with men to change back the legal terms of marriage in various ways.

In some cases (especially in the US) divorce with kids is a shortcut to financial doom. There’s also the belief that broken homes negatively affect the kids’ upbringing. Some men just can’t exercise that option.

Well…just goes to show that a marriage worthy woman behaves like a marriage worthy woman from the start, not the “perfect girlfriend”. Perfect girlfriend should stay just that. If she stops being that and doesn’t actually leave, then that is a bad sign that it was all a trap.

If a woman is really okay with things like polygyny, understands a guy needs guy time, and female attention (platonic or otherwise) from a variety of women, then that doesn’t stop being the case when she wants to get serious. If anything, she becomes more serious about these things. If you behave like *you* can’t handle that kind of coolness and actually stick around, then the non trap response from a real cool chick is to leave.

I mean…Why in the hell would a truly man understanding woman suddenly want a guy to start acting like a girl?

You can still save yourself if she reveals her hand before children arrive. Then, it’s harder on you if you love your kids. I speak from experience. Had I known how things would turn out, I would have fled like a man from a burning house. But if you love your children, then it’s not an easy decision to leave.

Still, my broader point is this: You use game on your wife. What’s the point? You might say that one may as well make the best of a bad situation. There’s some logic to that.

Using game takes time and effort. Most wives aren’t worth the hassle.

The best bet is simply to cheat.

Re: Divorce. Most men should prepare from the first day of marriage for a divorce. Start hiding assets.

Handle the personal finances, and discretely tuck away money. The best way to do this: When at a grocery store, request “cash back” at the register. I.e., use your debit card as an ATM card.

It’s much harder to track those financial transactions. An accountant can track cash withdrawals from your bank. The occasional $64.13 grocery store debit transaction will just look like a trip to the grocery store.

Just don’t be stupid by taking our hundreds at a time. Just tuck away $20 here, and $40 there. It adds up.

Then open a safety deposit box. Store the cash directly, or purchase liquid assets that also store value – e.g., gold or silver. If you’re going to insure the items, hide the insurance policy.

I think one of the more tragic realities of the early 21st century is married men (myself included) who came to be enlightened about Game, feminization of society, ‘the community’ if you will, after the fact. Due to the easy connectivity of the internet Men can finally ‘compare notes’ of their own observations and warn future generation of the pitfalls we all now realize, but not so for those of us who didn’t have the community (or even much of the internet) prior to marrying.

For older generations, they’re inclined to make their necessity a virtue and cling to marriage as something ephemeral and lofty no matter how to the contrary their situation’s reality. They simply lack the understanding, potential or options to make any use of Game, so the natural ego-preserving impulse is to ridicule it or deny it. But for those young enough to appreciate it and also possess the potential to use it, it becomes particularly frustrating.

So the decision then becomes one of considering Game’s use in infidelity / throwing off married monogamy, or using Game to improve ones life within marriage. I for one (and apparently Dave in Hawaii) can attest to Game’s effectiveness in marriage, however, as I posted originally, married sex is inherently compromised with regard to genuine desire. For all the marriage counseling or the best Game you can muster, genuine desire is never the result of negotiation. I don’t want robotic, obligatory sex from my wife that’s the result of fear or coercion – I want hot, passionate, lust-driven sex that’s the result of her genuine desire and arousal, ‘gina tingles if you will. I’m not sure this is even possible under the auspices of marriage, and I still have great, regular, sex with a hot wife.

Lurker, I can’t stand you, but I feel you on the response to marriage pressure. If there’s no pressing reason like immigration issues or dad demanding it on penalty of severe maiming or death, then it’s just a scam.

She can have a ring, change her name, or do whatever without getting the government involved in your affairs. So if I were male, and a woman was pressuring me to marry, I’d send that sheep back out to the pasture, probably with some scathing profanity and a boot to the butt.

Mike, another way of doing it is “sending money home to help my mother”. If you have parents or other relatives you can trust with money, you can send them a check every month to keep for you in their name.

Oh, how I loved this post. TA, thanks for sharing. I could insert myself into any one of your paragraphs–at least up until the last couple of years or so.

But for me, once I discovered the “community” something happened. Something snapped inside me. I took the red pill and a light went on in my head such that I began to look at my LTR in a totally different light. I read voraciously and began to apply principles of “game” to my marriage. Shit tests; the principle of a “kid sister” frame (yesterday’s Roissy post); you name it–it all has a parallel in a marriage LTR.

For me, it took a lot of… I don’t know quite how to put it… I suppose… “training” is the right word. And now my marriage is in a much different situation than a few years ago. There are more blowjobs, more home-cooked meals, less defensiveness, sex nearly every day, less extravagant spending, fewer hassles when I spend Saturdays watching college football with my buds, etc., etc. It’s very different picture for me now vs. just a few years ago.

For sure, the process of applying game to my LTR is a march of two steps forward, one step back. She has her spats and issues (as I suppose, do I). But I now more quickly call her on the carpet for her shit. I don’t walk around on eggshells. As a result, the riffs are shorter and less deep. And when they do happen, she’s now much more quick to apologize (dressed in lingerie no less).

It’s true that marriage is a process of betaization. …But only if you permit that to happen. Your wife/gf will only impose as much of a beta frame onto you as you allow. If you don’t resist, you WILL be assimilated.

Moreover, don’t expect miracles if you failed to choose wisely in the first place. If you find yourself chatting up the campus president of NOW, run (don’t walk) like hell. Or likewise, you can’t be a pussy all your single life thereby attracting only women who compliment your pussy frame and then expect marital bliss after the wedding vows. That aint gonna happen.

Early on, if your gf starts going beyond a reasonable line in terms of bitchiness about getting married (or whatever else), tell her to walk. (I did that too.) If she comes back after that, if she invites you over and cooks your favorite meal and apologizes… then maybe, just maybe… she moves into the inner circle of marriage-worthiness.

…and she’ll do filthy things in your bed (and out of your bed). She’ll fuck in public bathrooms, she’ll fuck you and blow you in cars. She’ll bend over willingly and she might even swallow…She’ll watch football with you, maybe even become a fan of your team. She’ll watch movies with you that you know she hates, and she’ll do it with minimal whining. She’ll cook you special meals, pick up random gifts…

My wife does all of those things and we’ve been married twelve years. I had never even heard of game until about a year ago. I’ve just behaved toward women like my dad did. He was married to my mom nearly 40 years so it never occurred to me that he had game. I just thought he was old school and so was I. His rules were basically like this:

1. I’m in charge. It’s my house and my rules.

2. Women talk a lot about everything and most of it doesn’t require a response and can be safely ignored.

3. I have expectations of you. Meet them.

4. This is who I am. If you don’t like it, then why are you here?

I think this is how most men behaved prior to about 40 years ago. It was the norm. A few years ago I was talking to some married friends who were all whining about their shrew wives. I finally got fed up and said to one of them “Grow a pair. She only behaves that way because you tolerate it. Take charge and quit putting up with that shit”. It was like I crapped on their dinner table. One of them said “I’m surprised you aren’t divorced yet”. All three of them agreed that their miserable marriages were the ideal “partnership” and mine was just a fluke because I lucked into finding a woman who wanted to be dominated. Funny, I wasn’t the one at the table who looked like he was ready to hang himself in the garage.

1) People married at 20, and usually died by 50. The wife was still decent-looking for the first 15 years of the marriage, or half of the total married life. Today, marrying at 33 for a lifetime until 80, is totally different.
2) 10-20% of men died on the battlefield or in occupational accidents. Hence, there were always more women than men, and widows were common and visible in their poverty. Thus, women who managed to marry and have her husband continue to survive realized that they were lucky, and treated their status as such.
3) Social shaming, stigma, poverty of single mothers, etc. were major deterrents. It was all but impossible for a woman who was not a prostitute to sleep with 5 different men in her life, given that she married at 20 anyway. Prostitutes, of course, were very low status people.

None of these forces exist today. Hence, marriage is not what it once was.

Separately, I remind everyone that anyone born after 1970 or so has a very good chance of living to be 110 or older, given anticipated medical advances. Keep that in mind regarding the ‘lifelong’ obligation of marriage (or alimony).

My experience the woman wants the dick until she decides to leave for another dude.

Your wife from other things you’ve said is really highly sexed.

Women vary in that a lot. The variability is not just in how alpha a man is and how much he can bring it out in her. It’s on both sides.
”””””

I was referring to my first wife. Never told the second one to leave. Wouldn’t marry a woman though I wasn’t having the magic sex with. Guys are talking about how the woman was wanting sex all the time and then shuts it off. I was saying it was more likely that the guy was the one not wanting to fuck her anymore just from my experience. Second wife stays in shape and she is still sexy to me though. I think bouts of time away help with that. Hence I do plan on continuing to take breaks and implement another woman into the mix so that it stays fresh plus I maximize kid output at some point along the road.

From my view. Woman have the most power before having sex, guys have the power after.

I guess the question would be if woman really are saying no how do you combat that?

I just never had em say no when I grab that ass and start fucking (except 6 months before 1st wife left). I guess I am
a special snowflake yay

i’m committing a horrible sin by re-posting this from an earlier, not-as-active post. i’m sorry in advance, and beg humblest apologies.
###

i’m sorry to post this in this thread, as it’s a situation that is momentary and time-sensitive, and i wanted to gain some insight from ya’ll.

girl coming in to town for 3 nights or so, staying w/ me during the time. we’re on a fuck-buddy arrangement.

i’m taking her to a musical performance. coincidentally, another girl i’ve been talking to for a few weeks (met her a while ago and got good vibe from her but didnt try for kiss… yeah, yeah i know). i have been putting off hanging out w/ her because i’ve been busy, but she saw my name on the invite list and posted on my facebook:

“are you going to the concert on Thursday? Can we finally hang out????”

i replied w/ a cocky “i’ll give it some thought”. basically, i’m concerned that i’ll be w/ the first girl when i will (most certainly) run into this girl. how should i act in this situation, so as to capitalize on future opportunities with both girls?

Just spend the rest of your lives working game on the pretty
but emotionally fcked up girls.

isn’t it funny how almost every piece of self-help literature written by and for women is essentially about getting women to stop sabotaging themselves with poor decision-making, mostly involving the wrong men?

isn’t it funny how almost every love song sang by a woman involves her pining over some bad boy who did her wrong and how she still just can’t stop loving him?

isn’t it funny that almost every chick flick is about some woman chasing after an alpha who is way out of her league, even as numerous “nice guys” prostrate themselves at her feet attempting to be noticed?

and isn’t it funny that despite all of this, people like mary jane still throw out these ridiculous arguments about game only being relevant to a small minority of maladjusted women? open your eyes.

RP-
Those rules are not only what makes a marriage more successful, but the general confidence behind them can make a man successful in life. I feel if American men adopted this attitude, there’d be a lot more stability across the board in relationships and marriages.

The way even that my father and grandfather behaved with women is totally different from guys my age. Seems younger guys are lacking this kind of… backbone.

It’s less game and more of a feeling of confidence backed up by some basic ideas.

If a woman knows you will ignore her silliness and that she only has a certain amount of chances with you, she will try to please you. Continually.

luliov:girl coming in to town for 3 nights or so, staying w/ me during the time. we’re on a fuck-buddy arrangement.

i’m taking her to a musical performance. coincidentally, another girl i’ve been talking to for a few weeks (met her a while ago and got good vibe from her but didnt try for kiss… yeah, yeah i know). i have been putting off hanging out w/ her because i’ve been busy, but she saw my name on the invite list and posted on my facebook:

“are you going to the concert on Thursday? Can we finally hang out????”

i replied w/ a cocky “i’ll give it some thought”. basically, i’m concerned that i’ll be w/ the first girl when i will (most certainly) run into this girl. how should i act in this situation, so as to capitalize on future opportunities with both girls?

own your promiscuity. you didn’t commit to a date with facebook girl, so you have nothing to apologize for. all you said was that you and her might “hang out”. when she sees you with the other girl, introduce them. act as if nothing is awkward about the situation. don’t say you’re on a date. don’t say anything beyond the names of the girls. for all she knows, the girl you are with is a friend. if you’re feeling cocky, invite them both for a nightcap at another bar.

bottom line: use an economy of words and avoid explaining yourself.

if she asks if you’re on a date, smile and say you don’t kiss and tell. or say you brought her along to buy you beers.

@luliov
if the other girl who’s been waiting around for weeks to hang with you sees you with another woman, she will only want you more. she’s thinking about you, hence looking at your name on invite lists, etc. you’ll not lose her interest from being with another woman, esp. if the other woman is attractive.

TA – I was a little surprised that by applying game, you flipped the script on her and now she wants sex and you don’t…especially when you concede that she’s still fit and attractive.

All I have to say is that you really should think about your boys first. Divorcing their mother while they are still young WILL affect them negatively, for the rest of their lives. No matter what anyone says.

Do you no longer want it because you are angry and bitter at her for what you see as her “tricking” you into marriage? That she was your sexual nymph before the vows, and than she cut you off out of spite?

This is the common story…but what I’ve come to realize in my own experiences is this: you need to own up to your own part in that.

She cut off the sex because you beta-ized…and neither of you may have even consciously realized it. Women don’t have intellectual and logical control of their ‘gina tingle anymore than men do over popping an erection at the site of an attractive naked woman.

You may be bitter…but for the sake of your boys, you may want to reconsider your anger, and keep gaming her and start having sex with her again.

Because I went through the exact same shit you describe..and once I flipped the script, I’m the one that occasionally tells her “I don’t feel like it right now.”

I’m now going into my 4th year of being married after having my eyes opened to the realities of gender relations through studying game – and I do have to say my wife is willing and eager to please me sexually and in the kitchen….moreso than before we got married. Far more so.

I look back on my “beta” days, and I realize that while I was angry and resentful towards her for the long dry spells, the lack of blow jobs, the resistance to cooking or cleaning….I have since figured out that my failure to “be the man” was directly related to her desire and motivation to be a good wife.

I’m not telling you what you should or should not do here – but man, you gotta think of your boys first…the things you do out of anger now will have a profound effect on them for the rest of [i]their[/i] lives.

O.K., I’ve read the whole thing now, after getting over the initial unpleasantness. Not bad.

A few thoughts:

Firstly, why the fuck don’t you have a mistress? Look, I’m as honest as the day is long, have never stolen a red cent from anyone…and yet I have cheated on every single girlfriend that I’ve ever had. My first love? Cheated on her. Most recent girlfriend? Cheated on her. And all points in between.

Literally every single one, including the one bona fide 10 that I’ve ever dated (runway model for Victoria’s Secret, no less). I cheated on the 10 with about an 8.5, just on general principles. Didn’t wanna do it…felt like I owed it to her.

Now, I’d like to think that if I got married I could stay reasonably faithful. I’m not really counting on it, but I’d like to think that. But my wife isn’t putting out? Fuck that noise. At that point I’d say to hell with a mistress, and just start banging pornstars for $1000 dollars a pop.

Beyond that, it sounds sort of like you were a jackass during the dating stage. There is good jackass, and then there is just jackass. Boring jackass. It sounds like you were boring jackass. Forget an anniversery over a football game? Boring. Disappear for three days, show up unshaven and drunk with lipstick on your collar and hotel receipts falling out of your pockets, while absolutely denying even the slightest measure of wrongdoing? Now we’re talking. If you are gonna be a jackass, do it right. Kick it old school.

You describe her as super cool, and then it all falls apart when you fail the ultimate shit test. My response to that is…maybe. It could be that she actually was really cool, but you didn’t reciprocate enough, the feelings start to fade and resentment starts to grow. Or maybe it was just one vast con job, I don’t know. But the point is that you can cheat on a girl, you can be a cool jackass, but you still need to be good to her in other ways, assuming she really is a cool chick. My recipe: see the squeeze the day before your girlfriend’s birthday…but remember your girlfriend’s birthday. There has gotta be some passion there. Forgetting something that is important to your girl because of a friggin football game or something like that – boring. Boring as fuck. Far better for her to sense (without actually catching you) that you are fucking hot chicks, but you still remember her birthday and treat her right. Never had a problem with a girl like that.

Also, about the marriage hint thing. I’ll tell you this: if I was ever dumb enough to get married, and made it clear to the girl that I wanted to marry her – and she balked, hedged, or what have you – I’d be done. Fuck that. Talk about a romance killer. So I really don’t blame chicks for that kind of reaction. You shouldn’t have to beg to get married, it’s just going to breed resentment.

Again, my position is this: if you are going to be the cheating arrogant dickhead that chicks desire and love, there has also got to be some real romance there. There has got to be some sense of connection. Otherwise, she’s going to be just waiting to take the upper hand. Marriage will give her that upper hand, legally speaking, all other things being equal.

Gotta throw the dog a bone now and again, but in your situation it may be way too late for that.

Anyway, you’ve made your bed, and its time to man up about it. You’ve got sons now (sans any fucked up adjectives). I don’t say stay together because of your fundy religious beliefs, which are insane, but simply because divorce really does a number on kids. I’m a child of divorce myself, and it wasn’t something that I would wish on anybody (and my parents handled it about as well as it could have been handled, no open animosity, neither ever said a negative thing about the other in the presence of the kids, never saw the inside of a courtroom. They are still friends to this day). It doesn’t matter how well it is handled, it is still bad news for kids.

So where does that leave us? Until your youngest son is solidly into adulthood, you’ve got to content yourself with bitches and blunts. It’s all about the bitches and blunts. Not so bad, eh? Cheat your ass off. Quit thinking “dozens” of times about divorce. That’s pathetic. Spend those dozens of times trying to fuck other women, or failing that to line up some reliable escorts.

Who knows, maybe after you cheat on her solidly for about six months to a year, she’ll sense a power shift in the relationship and improve a little bit. Maybe, maybe not. But for chrissakes, man, don’t get caught. And if you do get caught, just deny, deny, deny, deny. And then, when your kids are grown, either your wife will have improved and responded to your strong pimp hand (still cheat on her, no matter what, just on general principles), or she won’t – in which case you dump her ungrateful ass.

I honestly cannot believe the shit I’m reading in these comments. If you do not have a relationship with a woman in which you tell her its time to have sex and she complies, then you should never have gotten married in the first place.

think about the steretypical relationship involving an abusive man. what you have is a woman who lives in fear because she never knows what’s going to set the man off and get her beat. that’s a miserable situation in which to be. and yet, that’s the exact same situation in which many men live. they live in constant fear of their wives’ next tantrum. they are slaves to their girlfriends’ emotional state.

the first stage to rehabilitating a relationship is to let it be known that you will not participate in her tantrums. if she wants to get pissed off at every minor perceived slight, then let her. just leave or ignore her. women love men because we are not subject to the same emotional rollercoaster that often control their behavior. they depend on us for that stability, they often lack. remember that.

””””’NYCer
I honestly cannot believe the shit I’m reading in these comments. If you do not have a relationship with a woman in which you tell her its time to have sex and she complies, then you should never have gotten married in the first place.

Tell newgirl right away now that an ex is coming to town from for three days and since you two are on good terms, you agreed to let her crash at your place. And that you’re going with her to the performance. You hope to see newgirl there!

I.e. tell newgirl everything except that your FB and you still sleep together. But make sure she knows the relationship is over. You’re just friends now. If she asks friends with benefits, agree and amplify. “Oh yeah and how. How do you feel about threesomes? I have awesome benefits.” The key with newgirl isn’t so much to hide that you might possibly have a FB relationship, as to make her feel sure you’re not still pining after getting back with FB. That’s key.

Then tell FB that you’ve been mildly flirting with this girl and yada yada the truth except for game ineptnesses. Make it she’s maybe after you, you haven’t gotten around to her much yet. Challenge FB to be an awesome sexy FB by playing the non jealous but still coolly affectionate ex lover with ambiguous current situation. Cause after all FB lives elsewhere, sees other guys, you both do, and she’s cool and together. She’s proving herself to you, that she can be. (Cause you never know about the future, etc.) It will also help to make newgirl seem to FB as just a bit of a conquest interest. Not someone you really hope … etc.

I.e. play them both to social proof for the other.

A bit delicate but doable. Depends mostly on the FB and how you game her.

One key to making this work is your feeling no guilt whatsoever about the situation. You shouldn’t. If you project that they’ll tend to buy it.

I learned early on that ultimatums are poor move and the answer should always be what Roissy said: else.

A girl I had considered marrying — before realizing the light at the end of the tunnel was an oncoming train — gave me an ultimatum in the form of choose or do XYZ or we’re over. She would make ultimatums every now and again. I never really bothered to remember what the XYZ is, but it was generally something that required more thought, time, or negotiating than a snap decision. I always chose “I guess we’re over”, then re-framed and disarmed her argument. Pussy never stopped even post-breakup.

If you want change then do something about it. Suffering in silence? That’s your fault! Use your freakin’ words and tell your wife what you need! If she doesn’t care, then at least you tried and have the ‘guilt free’ find sexy time someplace else card. If your wife isn’t doing her job…TELL HER!! Don’t just sit there and take it and then blame her for it.

Tell her what she needs to do, she obviously doesn’t know!!!

If she doesn’t cook dinner for you (ouch) then it’s still your fault for not calling her on her shit. We do things because we can get away with it!! You need to set expectations/boundaries for your wife. If my boyfriend has boundaries and expectations and makes them known to me then I respect them. Sure I’ll test him to see if I can push those boundaries, but he lets me know right away that I can’t. Married men that complain about wives treating them like dirt need to speak the fuck up. People treat you the way you allow them to treat you, stop being so damn scared of your wife! She probably doesn’t even think she’s doing anything wrong, because you’re too scared to tell her. Ugh!

Marriage isn’t all that bad, if you marry a woman that understands what a man needs. Or you know how to get what you want.

But there’s still the enormous unfairness to men of divorce American style. Which marriage enables her to wreck on men, and hold as a power dynamics cudgel.

Excellent point. It’s not an equal playing field–even with game in hand. And tying this to another of your points…

Female friends tended to keep marriages together before 1960 and especially before WWII. They generally are a BIG force pulling them apart these feminist days.

I think in some communities, there still is a stigma of divorce–and more so on the woman–which tilts the playing field slightly back the other direction, though not all the way. But the stigma and positive influence of friends is, as you say, fading fast. Misery loves company.

I don’t think it’s anything men can engineer, but surrounding one’s marriage with a peer group that supports it would be a big help. Perhaps we had this a couple of generations ago when extended families resided in closer proximity. …Or consider this (positive social pressures) as one of the reasons that arranged marriages have greater success. (Though no doubt some feminists would complain that these “social pressure” drivers merely hide or help perpetuate abusive relationships–as if a few bad apples means we should up-end the entire institution!)

By contrast and in today’s world, all I can think to recommend is to choose very, very wisely (i.e., with your upper head, not your lower one) and look for women with strong religious backgrounds. Some recommend cruising Eastern Europe.

If men what children, like right away, then marriage with a prenup mimicking living together makes sense – after a period of living together. Otherwise not so much. Live together in legal equality instead. Unless and until women agree with men to change back the legal terms of marriage in various ways.

I’m no legal expert but have heard that merely living together isn’t bullet-proof insurance against an alimony or alimony-like judgment. Besides, there’s evidence to suggest that living together prior to marriage is actually a correlate of greater divorce! The thinking is that couples who live together use something of a sunk cost argument and slide into a marriage from which they’d truly be better off walking away.

You are so right on with this advice. In fact, I wish you had been around to speak to my uncle BEFORE his wife finally kicked him out. (was a painful marriage for everyone in the family to watch and now his two sons are suffering greatly).

T.A. I am in my 20s, unmarried, and have dated and been friends with many guys whose father’s walked out. Some kept up good relationships with them, one I know disappeared all together never to be heard from again. But even the guys who kept in regular contact with their fathers are screwed up because of it. They blame their fathers and are protective of their mothers. This is even the case when it is clearly the mother at fault (my uncles situation). It doesnt matter. They still take mum’s side. This then sets them up for an unhealthy attitude towards themselves as men. They think that men are people who just cause misery to women and often they end up becoming too feminized as a result. They are also more likely to get in trouble with the law.

But assuming one wants to get married (I guess there is one single decent reason and it is to have kids and have them growing in a decent family), how do you do it and at the same time avoid the total betatization of your manhood?

Is there a way or is it just impossible? Do we have to choose between manhood and having kids in a regular family?

””””””””””gunslingergregi
Why seriously need to change up the game. Have to make woman produce some shit for family before marriage. Even the woman I am with now meets criteria to be able to save 2 g’s a month with me working. So yea before marriage you both save 200 g’s fuck that. Turn that shit around on the woman and do something that will benefit you both. Tell her I don’t know why I am with you we are not beating life and if we can’t beat life there is no point to existance. Then after marriage it doesn’t matter what happens you have something you both worked for in case of split.

on November 10, 2009 at 3:14 pm gunslingergregi
Takes out the what if’s and I hope this happpens and I wish it where like this after marriage. Make the shit concrete.
”””””””””””””””””

Game works in marriage. It has helped me a lot recently. I have strict Catholic morality, and some Beta traits, but I have always had a streak of Alpha as well, which has served me well at times.

Too many of the younger men I see are in thrall to their wives. I heard one young Catholic wife tell – not ask with a please – her husband to do something recently. As far as I am concerned, that is simply not acceptable.

My wife and I went for a country drive yesterday. It was her birthday. We had a dreadful argument on the way out. There were the usual threats, for example no more sex ever. I ignored her rantings and stuck to my guns. It all ended with her asking for and getting a sound off-road spanking and a sharp fucking in the corner of a quiet field. She is now a much happier woman.

Two things. These “Game” techniques work. Like all techniques, they can be used for good (keeping a wife in order) or bad (fucking sluts). Second thing. Sadly, we are stuck with certain roles. It would be nice to be able to relax more often with people, including one’s wife, but the reality is that we play roles and we have to be “in character” most of the time. The “shit tests” come and go, but they never stop.

It’s true. Women like to be dominated. They may deny it. There is no cultural support any more for it (even Reader’s Digest has now gone feminist!). But it’s still true.

God, this is so like my own marriage it’s not even funny. Lack of BJ, etc. Sex has become non-existent. Divorce contemplated. Largely due to betaness on my part. So I can’t even necessarily blame the wife for that, can I?

Dave from Hawaii:

Please, could you send me your e-mail address. I’d like to discuss some issues with you, as someone who has succeeded. My e-mail is nomorebeta at hotmail.com. I would really appreciate your response.

Wow this is so not what happened to me. My Wedding cost $2,500. The engagement ring was a few hundred. In Russia its not so much of a tradition. She was happy to get a ring. I am going on 6 years of marriage and on the second child. Sex, back rubs? When ever I want. Of course I do give her mind blowing O’s so she is looking for me.
I think I know what went wrong. You married the wrong American. My wife also knows I would go over seas to solve all kinds of problems. Its simply not necessary however.

I also have a strict Catholic morality. I know many other young women like me. And I know that every one of them wants a dominant husband. Your method for making your wife happy sounds excellent.
TA has a lot to learn from you.

If your current girlfriend wants to meet up with an ex for reminiscing and you are obviously not happy with such an arrangement, how do you put an end to the plans without appearing Beta-Angry?

“that’s not going to happen while we’re together. your choice.”

this is a huge red flag. women know that meeting an ex to “reminisce” is disrespectful of their current lover. that she would even broach this subject with you is a shit test, and a warning of trouble ahead. nip it in the bud now.

The thing I don’t think your friends (the ones on whose dinner table you crapped!) realize is: their wives actually WANT their men to grow a pair and take charge. Their wives would actually respect it. They might resist/test it at first–as if to confirm the lake ice is solid enough to trust–but they’d ultimately find it both familiar and refreshing.

One of the downright uncanny things I’ve noticed in my marriage since I found game is that my wife actually, fundamentally WANTS to please me. “How can I make you happy?”, she asks me often. That is, she wants to be led.

I don’t think her attitude is some kind of chauvinistic cultural programming that needs some counter-dose of feminism in order to be neutralized. I don’t think it *can* be neutralized. Rather, it’s something darn near-biological and that merely stays suppressed until the man decides to grow a pair, as you say, and actively lead the relationship.

I remember being down at college and I had 3 roommates. We had some people over including my girl friend. She was not into big crowds and said she was leaving a bit early. They all looked at me like it was time to panic. It really is pathetic. I let her go and when I wanted some company, I knew I had it. Women are not the problem if you ask me. Its all the man ho’s that dance around the starlets on MTV.

There will be inexplicable weeping at inopportune times. Cold shoulders for no apparent reason. Sex will dry…up. Blow jobs will be something you only see in pornos. Hints at marriage will drop like snowflakes at first – then like a barrage of hail.

This doesn’t seem right. If the sex began to desiccate before marriage, even by 10 percent, I don’t understand why the man wouldn’t be runnin’ like Eddie Royal on a kick return.

I’ve often heard the plaintive tale of wedding cake’s ability to kill the female libido, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a woman rationing sex to entice a man into marriage. That just doesn’t make any sense.

In Saudi Arabia, men get custody of the kids, the house and most of the assets? The wife has to leave the household. Many Saudi Arabia men also don’t enforce the ex-wife to pay them child support and/or alimony.

People know in the United States women get custody of the kids(92%), the house and most of the assets? The husband has to leave the household but the American women always enforces the ex-husband to pay them child support and/or alimony.

These skanks who say, “you men want a woman who is submissive” oh yeah, so do you skank.

It’s called PMS(Princess Mentality Syndrome) Most American/western women have been spoiled all their lives, the know of no other treatment. They have been conditioned all their lives. Kinda like the Saudi men.

I don’t hate the beta male but maybe they can wake up!

You see many western females complaining, “where are all the good men at”.

That’s like a Saudi man standing in his country screaming at American women, “where are all the good women at”.

It might already be too late, but there are a number of things you can do, which will at least test her to reveal what her intentions are.

Invite yourself to go with her, in a smooth way. Sort of like “So, where will we be meeting him?” If she is visibly troubled by this, she has revealed her intentions. If (unlikely) that she is OK with you coming along, then go along. Make sure your game is tight enough to both befriend the guy and AMOG the guy at the same time.

The worse part of “T.A.’s” letter is not the lack of sex, but the life-long debt service that he describes. A transhumanist friend of mine once described money as “bio-survival tickets”. Money is meant to be used to secure a long-term financial survival for oneself or, at minimum, spent in doing the things one really enjoys doing. “Bio-survival tickets” should never be wasted on frivolous bogosity. Not getting enough sex is one thing, but being married to a women who costs you hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime in frivolous BS represents a serious existential threat to one’s long-term financial well-being. It could even cost you the chance at physical immortality! I regard such women as complete insane.

It is completely irrational to spend $50K on a wedding, when that money could either be an investment nest-egg, or used to pay for 8-10 good beach holidays in tropical paradises. Any woman who thinks this is reasonable use of $50K meets my definition of being mentally ill.

Sadly, “TA’s” situation is common to millions of American men. In one sense he is lucky, his wife does make an effort to keep herself in shape and physically attractive, even if she is not much for the sex. Meeting his sexual needs is not that difficult for “TA”, especially if he works in sales and travels about the country (or, even better, internationally), as long as he is very careful. The financial situation is far, far worse.

Amazing post! Well done, TA. I am 35 and married too, and although my situation is not as bad sexually (my wife is European and she is much more open sexually, to the point that we’ve had a few threesomes, which were super hot), I agree that once you are married, life is not really fair to you.

The truth is that married life with nothing on the side is a raw deal for men. Men live for and love PUSSY over everything else. So giving that up is HUGE and nothing can replace. Not have a home-cooked meal. Not having beautiful children. Not being respectable to your family.

Of course, society does not want to let us in on that little secret because that would cause chaos! And once we are in it, we are ashamed to talk about it, and that’s where the anonymity of the internet comes.

Yes—guys need to develop GAME. Only then can you fuck the girls of your dreams, and not settle for crap (as Mehow says). And only then will you find the girl of your dreams that you might want to marry.

So if you do plan to settle down, only do it with the girl of your dreams. Marrying just an “okay” girl that is just “the best you can get”, that is a recipe for decades of frustration and self-loathing!

That would work, too, but it sets a vastly different tone. The tag of “while we’re together” implies that the relationship is temporary.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it is incompatible with a relationship in which you are the owner and she the property (as should be the case in any good LTR).

remember that women loathe most the idea of accountability. saying “your choice” forces her to confront her responsibility for her decisions. it is a “no” with a psychologically electrifying twist, and that twist is a helpful reminder that there will be consequences for her actions. i guarantee that there isn’t a woman alive who would not interpret such a line as a powerful display of dominance over her, and choose to end the relationship, unless the LTR was already on the ropes.
in which case, ruby wins either way.

Men are powerless before the law. So, not getting married is the only rational choice. Delaying marriage until you are 40 or more is a reasonable compromise between rationality and sentimentality. Just be sure the girl is young. A prenup might help.

But, to the young men out there (40) to marry, you will have more options if you have not wasted your time. And your marriage will be far richer.

NEVER NEVER feel pressured to marry for any reason but your own selfish interests. Most women will be a drag on you.

To repeat, there is just no reason for a vigorous man to marry < 40 years of age.

Invite yourself to go with her, in a smooth way. Sort of like “So, where will we be meeting him?”

this is a good example of “everything she does is cute” game. however, as i wrote in that post, sometimes a woman’s infraction is so disrespectful that a man is better off lowering the boom and laying down the law, minus the bemused grin.
an occasional silverback beatdown keeps a woman tingly and springtime fresh.

Speaking from LTR-land, I also feel compelled to point out one HUGE oversight/incongruity on the part of just about everyone in this community. Namely, the way a lot of people around here view relationships is reciprocal to the way many Western women view marriage.

Specifically:
Lots of women see marriage as a situation in which men must provide X, Y, and Z, but they may or may not provide A, B, and C and sometimes even feel resentful when they do.
That sucks, of course, but a lot of the men here have the same attitude: that a woman in a relationship must provide sex, sweetness, domesticity, etc., but that they may or may not cultivate their Game. On top of this, many men here are deeply resentful of the necessity of Game in a long-term relationship

Guess what folks.

It’s a two-way street.

HER obligations include being your personal slut; filling your stomach with regular (if not necessarily daily) food that you like; being responsible with resources; showing you respect; and making your home a pleasant sanctuary to which you want to return.

YOUR obligations, in return, include turning her into and keeping her as your personal slut; guiding her and keeping her actions and attitude in line without making her feel stupid; protecting her (from others and, sometimes, from herself); and leading the course of the relationship. In other words, Game.

Men should be no more resentful of the necessity of Game than women should be of the necessity of maintaining their looks and femininity. They are equivalent currencies.
While this site is home to one of the most impressive collections of insightful comments I’ve seen, this dichotomy still tends to be a huge blind spot.

Damn straigth Epoxy…and that jibes with my earlier advice to TA – that he’s resentful towards his wife for her frigidity and bitchiness…but he’s gotta own up to his own part in how his behavior contributed to her acting that way.

I’m not asking for myself; I’m asking for a friend of mine who is a former Navy Corpsman who is experiencing matrimonial bullshit held over since his last deployment.

He’s semi-skeptical about “Game” but admits to slowly becoming endeared towards MGTOW/MRA and political commentary parts of the Roissy/Man-o-sphere.

Sadly, he’s been making somewhat morbid jokes about the state of his marriage compared to the much happier sailors and Marines he knows who married foreign brides.

I’m actually going to link him to this and Dave’s thread as a not-so-subtle “Call to Action”.

In Response to Epoxytocin No. 87 :

Speaking of military personnel, the withdrawal of sex pre-and-post-deployment is an insidious tactic utilized by military girlfriends to get bumped up to “military wives”.

Whereas deployments in past wars meant some sensual relief for soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen via native women, our recent military adventures almost ensure a prolonged state of involuntary celibacy for those who are downrange in Southwest Asia.

And don’t even ask about dating women who are in your same base and service… Horror stories abound…

That’s all well and good Etox and Dave, but men (and society) do not lie to women from childhood about what men want from them. But men are subjected from childhood to a lifetime of deception about it. That’s why they are resentful, and quite rightly so.

MNL
It’s funny, my wife asks me the same question all the time. It really does seem biological, like she craves pleasing me. She seems happiest when she is making me happy.

Chi-town
I’ve seen that reaction a lot. A few years ago I was on a business trip with a bunch of married guys. They wanted to go to a strip club one night. Just before leaving to go my wife called. She asked what I had planned and I said “We’re going out to a strip club”. The guys all completely lost it. They looked shocked. As soon as I hung up my boss said “You can’t tell your wife you are going to a strip club!” I said, “I just did”. He asked “What did she say”.

She said “Have fun.”

They were floored. They said they could never tell their wives that. I asked “Why not? Does she think you’ve never seen another pair of tits before?”

Jesus, I just don’t know how guys can live like that when it’s so easy to be happy.

I am in my mid 30s and have accumulated a fair sized “nest egg” due to having no wife, kids or other dependents. I would not get married without making sure that I have a solid prenup and also well hidden assets offshore. Those are the basic requirements but overall men should avoid marriage as much as possible. It’s not really worth it.

I straight up tell them, “If I accept this, you’ll hate me for it and it’s over, if you give in, you’ll hate me for it and it’s over. It’s quicker this way. Goodbye and good luck.”

Naaaah. Just say “that’s not gonna fly. I don’t accept girls using sex as a bargaining chip. If that’s the kind of man you want, look elsewhere.” Then hold your ground and refuse to argue the point. And stop going after her. She has to come to you then and supplicate, or she’s toast. But if she does, she isn’t.

But men are subjected from childhood to a lifetime of deception about it. That’s why they are resentful, and quite rightly so.

Oh believe me, I don’t disagree with you. In fact, I would go further: The fact that George Sodini is a newsworthy exception, rather than the rule – coupled with the observation that the streets are not littered with the bloody bodies of murderously greedy ex-wives – is a testament to the fact that men, not women, are the more civilized sex.
In that arena – the arena of lies, deception, false rape/violence claims, and divorce – men have every reason to be resentful. In fact, men’s single best hope for change in these areas probably lies in less civilized behavior: fighting fire with fire, as it were.

But, there are lots of men here who, if not outright railing against Game itself, rail against the fact that Game is necessary in relationships. That is stupid, and demonstrates the same lack of understanding of basic human nature that pervades women’s resentment of men’s preference for beauty.

TA it sounds like you have not been happy since the point of the ultimatum. You hoped to turn the relationship around by getting married, but it got worse. Then you tried game, and that *has* turned the relationship around.

From what you say it seems like you would have been happy if marrying her had worked, but getting the result with game actually made you unhappier with her, although happier overall.

There is some dynamic in human behavior where sometimes, when somebody submits to you, you get angrier with them. Is it because we now see we could have gotten what we wanted before, and are angry we didn’t?

I think you hate her now because she has showed she will love you as as aggressive, dominating man, but not as a cooperative, giving one. Call me a puking romantic but a woman should love *all* of you.

Yes, men have to fear the law. But what woman is going to say, for example, “Officer, he spanked my bare bottom. My panties are in a lane somewhere. They were red.” Provided you don’t cause her actual physical harm, you can say and do just about anything. Be outrageous. Tell her, don’t ask.

The “everything she does is cute” trick is one I like to call “being patronising”. When she puts dinner on the table, say nothing, or at most say “Good girl”.

Offer her reasonable options. My wife had a habit of making me cups of tea, but leaving them on the stairs for me to pick up. I told her, “bring me the tea, or don’t make it all”. Simple.

Remember, she’s a woman. Not a “goddess”! A woman. It is inbuilt in women to obey. Tell her what you want. Nine times out of ten, she will say no … and then do what you tell her.

A healthy woman is turned on by obeying a man. It’s that simple.

We had another bad argument recently, which I applied “game” too, and she finished the night ironing my shirts as usual.

Epox: “Yeah, and you should still love her just as much if she balloons up to 300.”

Ah, yes, but nobody told her for 30 years that you would love her even more if she did baloon up to 300lbs and try to make her feel guilty if she didn’t do just that, only to find her repulsive when she did so. Also, there is nothing objectively wrong with be cooperative and caring – it ought to be a good thing. Can’t say that about being morbidly obese. I know we already agreed on this, but I’m having trouble letting the issue go, I guess. Man, my wife is gonna pay for this tonight! Her ass is gonna be redder than a tomato.

By the way, my slight bitterness on this has more to do with my first wife, not current. She’s never denied me sex even once. I could wake her up at 3 AM if I can’t get to sleep, and she’d always be willing, sometimes eager. But she does shit test in a lot of other ways that I never used to get. And, having read up on game, I am much more comfortable being dominant and demanding in a way that seems to give her comfort.

TI Countless hours thinking about how incredible it would be to actually get to use my d***more than a couple of times a year

Wow, how coldly selfish. Chic Noir doesn’t have much of a drive but I would at put in some effort.

Danger Never. Tolerate. Shit.

Cosign, it’s what chic noir’s been saying all along.

xxx
It cracks me up when men marry these sluts who do the nastiest kind of sex with them. Who do you think taught her? It sure wasn’t you

It cracks me up too but for different reasons. Why is it necessary that “your” woman do these deviant things with/to you? Our grand and great-grandparents didn’t most of this stuff, so why must we? I, like novaseeker, think too much p*0n is the root cause.

Seriously, you are neurotic. You are suffering from a male form of repressed hysteria, sublimated.

You see, ROSIE; you, VK, rooshv, gmanifesto, obsidian, epoxy, ricky raw, pretty much write about the same thing. The same garbage. What is striking is the tone. VK has a fun, playful vibe to him; rooshv doesnt take himself too seriously either–you see a lot–warts and all, he lets it all hang out; gmanifesto seems just all about having a fun, good time; obsidian thoroughly makes his point but remains cool and collected and “above the fray”; same with epoxy and ricky raw.

You on the other hand, ROSIE, you come across as if somebody just packed a tight, lumen-ripping diamond up your ass. You approach this with a pedantic, fastidious, anal manner of a sore head nun of a covent. Everything is too serious with you when it comes to this(game, marriage, women, etc). I am sure, in fact, i am definitely willing to bet money on it that some of your friends(pua or otherwise) have told you to “take things easy” before.

You are neurotic. Obsessively painting your issues with the florid colors of semantics. It is nothing unique–With the exception of the spaniards and the italians–it is not uncommon that whites(males/women) are more anal, more neurotic than other people in general. This blog serves a therapeutic mode for you.

[editor: three whole paragraphs and not one mention of rape. this is progress! although you did come close with all those anal references. got something you want to tell us, felching beaver?]

Wow!! TA story is exactly like mine. I discovered Roissy less than a week ago, went through most of his posts already — which is what I’ve been doing for the past week, and managed to complete, “The Game,” by Neil Strauss( Roissy’s posts were far far better. The book turned out to be shit except for the pointers to other information and other tactics. And Strauss is such a horrible writer.)

I wanted to write to Roissy about my situation but TA beat me to it. There’s not much to add, except my wife weighs significantly more than me. Sex had stopped almost completely after the baby and I was having beta fits in between and nothing productive happened. Then I heard about, “The game.”

I was feeling exactly the same way as TA, contemplating divorce. Once you are removed from the relationship, you are in so much control. I started seeing, “Shit Tests,” for what they were and had good responses ready. Then I played an out and out asshole game. Now, I’ve always been the nice guy( beta to the core…it brings tears to my eyes thinking how many times I’ve been LJBFed). And the asshole game completely confused her. She thought I was behaving strangely. I kept at it. And suddenly there was change. It was almost dog-like, whimpering, wanting to stay close, petted, etc. Once I saw that, I started to apply other things and the situation sort of flipped. As soon I started doing this, she wanted to have sex, after a month or so dry spell. My situation is probably worse than TA, — at least his wife seems to be desirable. I went through the motions just to not appear like I am doing something drastically, although it was on my terms. I didn’t give a shit about her and she wants hugs and kisses all the time. Sometimes I respond, sometimes I don’t. Keep it unpredictable. Punish bad deeds, but also punish good deeds. Reward very little. I am also thinking like TA, to just get out and see what’s out there. Maybe, there should be a new group for married betas wanting to get out of this sick institution that marriage turned into( especially with American Women). I want to know how to get out without having lifelong consequences. I am regretting the baby ( as much as I love it), because of the asymmetrical relationship.

I’ve read Dave’s advice and it sucks. Not that I’m against cheating. Once you are caught cheating in marriage, the stakes are so bad against men, that everything one worked for until now, and after will be taken from you. Keeping it up for a longtime takes luck and skill. I know kids are screwed in divorce. But I don’t think that should be the reason one should endure a fucked up institution we call marriage. If somebody is starting a different newsgroup, blog or some support group for this kind of situation, count me in. Email at indiefan90 at gmail.

TA – I’m afraid to tell you, it gets worse from here. You see, I’m you – five years from now. I was married to the beautiful, successful woman who, as a girlfriend, was up for any sexual adventure and was never in a bad mood. After I married her, she was never in a good mood! I swear, it was like throwing a light switch – Hottie Jekyll turned Mrs. Hyde. But you know all that. What you may not know is what happens next. More likely than not, it’s divorce. You see, women who fail to honor their most basic wedding vows (like letting you “have and hold” her, etc) usually break the “till death do us part” bit, too. She’ll get the house, most of the assets, alimony for a couple of years, TONS of child support (no self respectin’ family court judge wouldn’t be moved by those cute little faces…so what if the amount you’re ordered to pay quals 4X what it actually takes to raise two kids? A girl hasta have some spending money, wink wink). But don’t worry. In 10-15 yrs, you’ll be back on your feet.

Or, we could’ve been smart like Roissy and just skipped the whole corrupted game to begin with. Some of us need to learn from our mistakes first, I guess…

Yeah…well let me tell you something. The way that the feminist movement has been able to destroy the institution of marriage and warp our culture into brainwashing us all to fall into these pathetic gender roles that foment all of these gender relation problems like you and TA talk about (and I myself fell into), were to appeal to women’s selfishness and narcissism. To consider their own “happiness” above all other considerations.

And that has destroyed countless lives…mainly children, devastated by the divorce industry and the way it cuts Fathers badly needed influence out of their lives.

Yeah, you might be bitter and sexually frustrated right now…but understand that the ultimate purpose of life is to perpetuate your genetic line.

When you are old, and have no sex drive, the only thing you will have left is the life you built with your family – YOUR CHILDREN.

Let me know how that one works out for you when your children have a lifetime of bitterness and resentment because you divorced their mother – justified or not.

I know of too many friends and families personal situations and how divorce irrevocably altered the lives of their children, ALWAYS for the worse.

Hey, if a guy has no kids, and he wants to dump that bitch, I’ll be stomping my feet and whistling my encouragement.

But if you got children, you really should be more concerned with their well being rather than your own.

I have never read a book or magazine article that was of the least help to men in a real marriage. In fact, you would be advised to do the opposite of what they suggest, particularly advice from female journalists. But the recent rash of Internet articles about “game” are of real help. I don’t like the morality of the men who write them, but, as I said above, the techniques work.

Here is what I have learned over the years:

If a woman really wants you, she will do just about anything sexually. Men have real sexual power over women, which a decent man chooses not to abuse. I could have anal sex with my wife whenever I like, but I choose not to, for moral reasons.

Women can be very masochistic. Many like to be spanked. Most of them should be.

Do housework if you feel like it. Otherwise don’t. I have never done laundry. I don’t cook.

Make sure your wife changes her name.

Sit at the head of the table.

If she is talking too much, tell her to be quiet.

Women are not magical.

Women have no special insight.

Apologise only if you have done something truly bad.

Don’t ask, tell.

If she has a slightly insulting nickname for you, call her something worse. All in fun, of course.

Wake her up with a smack on the arse and instructions to make your breakfast. She”ll be annoyed, but she will make you breakfast.

Rub her nose in your dominance. Remind her frequently of her lower status.

Be creative in what you make her wear in the bedroom. Make sure she amuses you. I like to see a woman in a blouse and high heels and nothing else. Amusing you is what your wife is for.

Marriage and monogamy is the hallmark of a healthy society and nation. Once marriage/monogamy begins to fall apart, the society begins to fail as well — hence the increasingly pitiful condition of the modern USA, the UK, and some other Western nations.

Moving away from marriage/monogamy is actually a regressive de-evolution that will ultimately lead to the collapse of all true civilization. As if the utter Judaization of The West wasn’t bad enough, now we have to deal with the return of polygamous Negroid-style barbarity.

—

1. Nature plainly indicates permanent marriage as the true human relation. The young of the human pair need parental care and supervision for a great number of years.

2. Instinct is strongly on the side of indissoluble marriage. In proportion as men leave brutedom behind and enter into the fulness of their human heritage, they will cease to tolerate the idea of two or more living partners.

3. History shows conclusively that where divorce has been easy, licentiousness, disorder, and often complete anarchy have prevailed. The history of civilisation is the history of advance in monogamy, of the fidelity of one man to one woman, and one woman to one man.

4. Science tells the same tale. Physiology and Hygiene point to temperance, not riot. Sociology shows how man, in spite of himself, is ever striving, through lower forms, upward, to the monogamic relation.

5. Experience demonstrates to every one of us, individually, the superiority of the indissoluble marriage. We know that, speaking broadly, marriages turn out well or ill in proportion as husband and wife are–let me not say loving–but loyal, sinking differences and even grievances for the sake of children and for the sake of example.

God, what a horrible yet ho-hum story that I couldn’t even get through the whole thing. The guy is as average as they come. He only pines to be so unique and special in his stupendous suffering. Any idiot can and does do what he’s done with his useless life. Another one bites the dust, but who really cares? Roissy, do you really think this is big news? You need a life dude. We all know what you don’t want, but I don’t believe you have a real clue as to what you really do want, and getting laid isn’t much.

Sounds familiar but I found a way out. I cheat – often. If I didn’t have kids I’d have left the lazy bitch but I do.

If you do not want kids there is simply no reason to get married – unless she is very rich — even then you can still leave if she becomes terrible – and take her money.

Oh, if you are like 70-ish and had your fun and find an attractive, feminine, younger woman with money then that is ok too. Just as long as there is a pre-nup and she knows you will not stand for any feminst nonsense.

Lots of great comments here by the way. One that really hit home is that there are no articles in mainstream publications talking about the real problems that men have with women. I get Men’s Health and they are always yodeling about cooking your wife dinner and cleaning the house. As if I don’t do that already! I like to cook and I like a clean house but my lump of a wife doens’t know how and is too lazy to try.

So, kids are the only reason for a marriage. My burden will be divorced once mine are grown. But for now I game when I can and keep an active roster of girls on the side.

Oh, little to no sex in my marriage but I don’t mind as I am not really attracted to her.

Instead of trying to win his love (back?) by being a perfect wife, she’s being a little b*tchy and resentful about it.

**Bad “Girl Game”**: asking for marriage.

If a man doesn’t bring up marriage 100% independently of any hints or suggestions from outside influences (mainly her), that means he doesn’t want to marry her. I mean right??

If marriage was so important to her (religious or social reasons), she should have left him and found a guy who does want to marry her. Or settle for no marriage with him.

Also, she listened to bad, bad advice and let her friends influence what she should think. And she let the materialistic and consumerist society we live in today shape her views. Bad girl! Stupid girl too, you have such a good man hello??

**Bad “Boy Game”**: letting a woman pressure him into something he doesn’t want. And not walking away from ridiculousness (ditto to Roissy & everyone).

Also bad game for picking not the greatest girl in the first place (a girl who is easily influenced by materialism, friends, and pop culture). Also bad game when he couldn’t “control his own woman.”

Now if he had actually used “Bad Boy” Game… loll ;-)

Marriage should be something the man concludes is right to do, FIRST. Man is the leader, girl is the follower!

Also just a little shout out to the amazing awesomeness of MNL, RP in TX, Dave in Hawaii, Chi-town, Murray Hill, Epoxy, Doug1, David, so many others too… Even as a girl from the girly perspective, these guys are totally right… they get it. And they’re the marrying kind too, yay yay.

All girls who come on this site and hate on Game should read the comments from the above BEFORE criticizing.

And all women should also read LILGRL’s post on Marriage Material, which also carries over to how to act in marriage (love lotsa s*x, make food, don’t nag, etc.). It is one of my favs. :-)

A good smack on the bum as you pass your wife in the house is always worthwhile.

Most women aren’t very bright. Read women’s magazines, if you don’t believe me. Or listen to their conversation with their friends. I love my wife and my mother-in-law is a lovely lady, but I had to leave them talking at the table last night. Women are dull. They don’t have “other ways of knowing”; they are just clueless.

My wife showed me some pretty dresses in a catalogue this morning. I said that I had never seen a dress that didn’t look better when it was taken off.

While you are reading women’s magazines, read a few romance novels. Very enlightening.

I am not quite sure why “game” works so well. Perhaps it is because women look to men for their self-image. If you treat her like a queen, she will rule you. If you treat her like a scullery maid, she will clean your floors on her knees.

Let’s be honest…TA set the script for his future relationship with his wife, capitulated to her every whim, and set himself up for betatude. The “perfect girl” to so may herbs in this country is such a recipe for disaster: has her own life and goes out with her friends all the time, watches football with you and makes a shallow attempt to ingratiate herself with your social circle. Red flags all around. No one wants the cool chick who could be your “friend” for a wife. No one forced TA to assume the cookie-cutter duties of beta-ized husband. What’s the worst that would have happened if the author of this piece would have said “no?” Wives have scripted roles and duties in a marriage…by taking these on yourself, you abdicated any manly control you should have had over your marriage.

Only reason I would ever get married is in a situation like Backdoor Man’s…if you want to bring your foreign girlfriend back with you. I had a sweetheart latina girlfriend when I lived in S. America. Feminine, cooked, very family-oriented, was not a bitch, looked to me to lead in everything. Submissive in a good way–in that she expected men to be men and wear the pants–not that she was downtrodden and oppressed. Never even broached the subject of marriage with me…girls in other some other cultures are not entitled cunts who are trained to bitch and moan for a wedding. Even when I, stupidly, mentioned that the only realistic way she could come to the U.S. was if we could get married, she did get excited but only because “I will be your wife and get to wake up with you every morning!” Shit like that. And she knew I don’t want to get married, upon which she felt bad and said “but I don’t want to ruin your life.” Obviously, we are not married. Freedom is too valuable.

Sometimes I regret not taking a chance and bringing her with me…you cannot find a woman like that in the U.S. I could go on forever writing about how awesome it is that women in “traditional” countries are the polar opposite of Western bitches. However, I’m convinced that this country would have ruined her. Her entire upbringing, social conditioning, and whatever efforts I would have made to shelter her from our corrosive culture…would not have been able to stand up to the tidal waves of bullshit in this country. One or two people can’t fight the tide.

I agree about having a slut girlfriend that does everything sexually with little prodding for you before marriage learned it somewhere else. Warning flag. And RU-TX dude, and David’s list, are spot on. Look at truly successful marriages you’ve known in life…like your fucking grandparent’s, or your foreign girlfriend’s parents. There’s a reason these are the only people who are still fucking married…husband and wife stick to traditional roles and do not deviate. If I were married, I would never do a dish, fold a sock, or any other degrading task. If the wife is so inept and lazy that she will not get the hint and pick up the slack, and do her half of the marital work (the man’s involves making money), then the household will go to hell. Only a moron of a woman would let that happen, and if it does, your marriage will dissolve within a few years and you can get out relatively cheaply.

The root of all these problems is men’s being pussies. They’re afraid of their wives, they’re afraid of (whatever) going wrong. They’re even afraid of divorce. Personally, I would rather lose half of my shit and pay a ton of money than be utterly miserable. Dignity is priceless.

What else…yes, women aren’t very bright. They crave direction and leadership. No amount of “progress” or ambitchious career grrrls out there will change this, or convince me otherwise.

I am not quite sure why “game” works so well. Perhaps it is because women look to men for their self-image. If you treat her like a queen, she will rule you. If you treat her like a scullery maid, she will clean your floors on her knees.

“Plus, as a man, you hold the cards. At 40, you can marry a 30-year old. Why, at 30, marry another 30 year old?”

The interesting part about this is that most people assume that the women in their 30s are more difficult to date because of desperation/wanting to settle down because of their clock…..but I spent some of the first half of my 30s learning that usually isn’t the case.

They ARE a nightmare to date, but much moreso because of either being jaded, way too picky, or some other major reason that no one has married them. I notice these things even before the physical advantages of a girl in her 20s (which, of course, just adds heavily to the list of why any man who can date those is nuts to fight the huge uphill battle needed to find a genuinely desirable 30+ single woman.)

I would like to say that forcing someone into marriage is the worst possible thing that can ever be done. It is not only extremely unfair to the spouse, but to the children who are born to a parent that didn’t want them in the first place. Too many women are selfish to understand this, and more men need to wake up to this reality and stand up to the immoral behavior of marriage ultimatums.

You are not doing anybody, even future children, a favor if you allow yourself to be forced into having children. It will impact on them negatively, and that is if the wife doesn’t divorce you first.

A beta father who is passive in rearing children and does not stand up to the mother is also damaging (though not as damaging as the absence of a father). Children need to be disciplined, smacked around, and have fear of their parents to grow up with good character. Only a father with alpha traits can do this (mother are too mother-hennish).

By entering marriage and children when you want to on your OWN terms, you will raise a happier and healthier generation.

My wife has largely stopped doing this, but she used to embarrass me in front of shopgirls and in social conversations. This kind of semi-public “shit-test” is quite tricky to handle. I didn’t know what to do once. I suspect if she did that now, in front of a shopgirl, I would probably have a snappy response. Women seem to like to see if they can humble a man in front of other people.

Do remember: women aren’t made of porcelain.

She was in a stinky mood recently (it’s usually PMT) and I warned her that if she made an embarrassing remark at the dinner we were going to, I would say something ten times more embarrassing. She wasn’t too bad, although she did “demand” a cup of coffee which I made her say “please” for.

On a happier note, it’s surprising what a woman will do, if you ask her directly, as I implied above. Several times she has gone out with me without her panties. She once asked me to smack her around in a secluded spot. This one really was weird. She hasn’t done that since (spanking, yes) and I didn’t really know what to do. This was early in our relationship.

I have made her curtsey to me a few times and she has called me “Sir” during spankings.

One thing about a blog like this is that some people might get the idea that love does not exist in this environment. I love my wife and, contextually speaking, I would do anything for her. I love her enough not to offer weakness. I love my son as he tries to break the both of us. He never breaks me.

Her only good option is to accept male dominance which in reality is her own feminine dominance; she takes from me, by submission, something she could never have by force. Yet I am driven to posses her and make her submit. Her submission pleasures me like nothing else which is part of what that love is. Hatred or contempt for my women is ever so absurd as she becomes my submissive possession. All the toys I loved in my childhood foreshadowed this.

Yes, I actually like my wife better and do more for her when I am on top in the relationship. No man minds doing a bit of tidying up around the house (I have done dishes, changed nappies, and so on). But no real man will willingly do housework under his wife’s orders. If a magazine contains articles urging him to do so, ignore it. Journalism is a Beta profession. Real men do; other men report. Much of journalism on marriage issues is just written nagging.

My wife is not my “possession” (cf. chi-town). Nor do I see my dominance as her “feminine dominance”. For me, a lot of it comes down to a religious understanding and a clear view of the nature of woman as a fallen being (like the man) and as a being which, though not inferior, is secondary in status by virtue of her being “made for man” and being under her husband’s headship and authority.

Even nature teaches the same thing. Women are weaker physically, less gifted intellectually, their bodies are “made for others” (womb, vagina, breasts) and they are built to be penetrated. Nothing about a woman suggests that she is made to rule. Quite the reverse.

Good comments from Dave from Hawaii and others. I’d agree that the kids need to be first in your mind. I’ve had friends whose parents divorced late and divorced early. Neither were pretty scenes, but the ones with later divorces definitely did better.

I’ve been married nine years, and I’d say they were nine very good years. I look forward to many more. Like someone else mentioned above, I just follow the old school rules. The man makes the decisions. I’ll take input from my wife, and if she has a good idea I’ll go with it, but I get the deciding vote. I’ve noticed that she’s happier that way, too. Women do not like making decisions as they have to take responsibility.

The one comment I would make about TA’s story is that after a year, you should probably be looking to either marry the girl or move on. I never got the ultimatum, because I wanted to get married, so I made the call and avoided having the “shit test.” But if you string a girl along, well, her clock is ticking, and it is unfair to expect her to sit around polishing your dick with no return. Really, what can you expect? If you want to stay single, fine, but let her go find someone else if she wants to get hitched.

i think some of you are missing the point. yes – i am at fault here as well. dually noted. my intention wasn’t to blame anyone for my own unhappiness. the purpose of this post was to possibly open the eyes of the poor bastard who might be on the fence – the beta who might just have started dabbling in game. the guy on the fence who’s holding 3 month’s salary in his hands and is this close to trading it for that ultimate status symbol of modern womanhood. hopefully he will read this post and put that money back under his mattress…

there’s also a larger picture here that i think is being missed as well – the lost soul that is the modern woman. you see, my experience shed a harsh light on the fact that today’s woman is a jack of all trades, but a master of none. society has offered them so many options and access to so many resources that they never get around to actually committing to any of them. what’s especially dangerous about this phenomenon is that they are horribly ill prepared to raise children. our consumer culture has caused women to view men and children as living, breathing accessories that look especially stylish next to the Restoration Hardware lamp and the William Sonoma espresso machine.

ask any woman on the street what handbag Paris Hilton or Madonna is carrying around this season and you’ll probably not only find out in 2 seconds flat – you’ll get a price and convenient location for purchase. yet that same girl probably can’t even scramble an egg, let alone mold the mind of a child. our parents’ generation used to teach their daughters how to at least add value in some capacity around a household – our generation has been taught what size implants would look best and how long one can expect to take to recover from lipo. daycare isn’t as much of a necessity for the working mom as it is a means to get to the Nordstroms sale while the good stuff is still there. look around you at the 25 year olds in the work force – chances are they’re making a great salary, getting fat checks from dad, getting bills paid by dad, and stringing along a beta boyfriend. and they’re probably still left miserable and wanting more (naturally). there’s too much dessert, too many toys, too much sugary sweet indulgence. and now the next step is to procreate – because she can (and because Kendra from The Girls Next Door is pregnant and it looks pretty cool!). this is all a recipe for the most FUCKED generation this nation has ever seen.

in short, having a family isn’t a genuine, selfless act for a woman anymore. its shit to get checked off the list – more adult toys to throw on the pile. and the beta dude who has the unfortunate “privilege” of reducing himself to being one of the check marks on the list is facilitating this mentality by caving in and enabling this lifestyle. are we going to take a stand, guys?

“Plus, as a man, you hold the cards. At 40, you can marry a 30-year old. Why, at 30, marry another 30 year old?

A woman’s clock is ticking. Ours isn’t. Remember that.

If you’re afraid, “What if I should have settled down,” knock that shit out of your head. You have something women to do not – time.

You can always marry later in life.”

Mike, you make a good point. There are so many women in their 30 who are so embittered that they probably treat men worse at that age than they would have when they were in their mid-late 20s. Why should men tolerate shitty behavior from a woman who might not even be able to bear healthy children?

I’m met women who were good looking in their 20 yet are shocked when they hit their mid-30s and men start rejecting them and essentially decide that those women are not even worth the effort anymore.

on another note – does anyone have any research on the effects of divorce on children of various ages? for example – is any age better, or is it equally damaging regardless of age? experiences are welcome too, but i’d really like to see some cold, hard stats.

you see, my experience shed a harsh light on the fact that today’s woman is a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

That’s a good point. A female friend asked about whether she should pursue a career or family. I said, “Quite frankly, you’re a nice girl with a decent head on your shoulders, but you’re no genius. At best, you’ll crack into middle management, work 60-70 hours a week and get a nice rolex watch after 30 years from a company who’ll forget your very existence two hours after you leave. Is that worth sacrificing the opportunity to a be a mother? It doesn’t strike me as a good trade.”

Women aren’t needed in the workforce. Nations can do perfectly well without women working outside the home. The West made excellent progress before women entered the workforce in large numbers a few decades ago. Japan and the other Asian economies have done well with women at home.

Women are not very creative, especially technically. They are not needed for economic progress. A mediocre female replacing a mediocre male in the workplace achieves nothing beside upsetting the mediocre male and his wife.

A few, exceptional women should pursue careers in truly useful areas (medicine for example). But women are mostly second-rate intellectually and make second-rate workers.

I forget the name of the top French Chef who was asked about women chefs. He said that women were better at things like wearing stockings. True.

The real reason academic feminists are so bloody unhappy is that they know enough history to realise that women have achieved practically nothing intellectually. This makes them furious, looking for scapegoats, and determined not to adopt traditional female roles.

To heck with the beta revolution let’s begin a movement to have Game taught to boys starting in Grade 6. What a different place our world would be!

Women need with a capital N a dominant man. After reading the letter (well done) I want to tell men reading here who aren’t married not to do it. If you insist then on behalf of women everywhere learn game if you don’t already have it. Just sayin…

I think for girls sex is “naughty”, and it must be for a lot of girls that, once married ,it’s no longer “naughty” and therefore no where near as appealing and exciting when she was fucking her boyfriend in her room while mummma and pappa where upstairs snoring.

Remember un-married girls are naughty little bitches, and they want to be spanked, fucked, and then hae you blow you mustard all over their ass cheeks………….mostly when the know they “shouldn’t” be doing this “naughty” stuff due to some moralistic code taught by parents, school or religion.

Reading the marrried guys posts here, maintaining the “Gina-Tingle after marriage must be as rare as black pearls.

Avoid materialistic women, there is your first problem. She wants a diamond, she can go to hell. Last girl I was in a relationship didn’t know what Gucci was. I had to explain the idea of women being obsessed with Italian designers to her after I made a reference to Gucci.

You have no one to blame but yourself if you decide it’s a-okay to chain yourself to a status-obsessed, consumerist slore.

David:”Women aren’t needed in the workforce. Nations can do perfectly well without women working outside the home. The West made excellent progress before women entered the workforce in large numbers a few decades ago. Japan and the other Asian economies have done well with women at home.

Women are not very creative, especially technically. They are not needed for economic progress. A mediocre female replacing a mediocre male in the workplace achieves nothing beside upsetting the mediocre male and his wife.

A few, exceptional women should pursue careers in truly useful areas (medicine for example). But women are mostly second-rate intellectually and make second-rate workers.

I forget the name of the top French Chef who was asked about women chefs. He said that women were better at things like wearing stockings. True.

The real reason academic feminists are so bloody unhappy is that they know enough history to realise that women have achieved practically nothing intellectually. This makes them furious, looking for scapegoats, and determined not to adopt traditional female roles.”

David – you make some excellent points in your above comment, and thus I reprinted it in full because it deserved a repeat.

The fact is that the economy of America and the entire West is becoming ‘betaized’ and feminized; with the leveling off of population growth in The West, there is less construction and engineering to do overall (traditionally men’s careers). Also, with the outsourcing of many factory or craftsman jobs, there are fewer decent jobs for blue-collar/working-class males. I’ve seen many blue-collar males have their lives and pride destroyed by outsourcing; whereas before they were building and making things of true value and pulling in a decent wage which supported a family, now they are becoming serfs at low-wage McJobs while their wives are making more than them ‘working’ in some government office or ‘teaching’ idiot NAMs who are breeding like rabbits to replace us in some dumpy (government) school.

All this leaves is crappy service (more like ‘serfice’) jobs in offices, education, and medicine — almost all of those fields are now increasingly dominated by females and all are government supported or at least subsidized. Many men turn to law or banking, but again those are often not very creative or truly constructive occupations because they so often involve ripping people off and spreading misery in society.

The whole Western economy is becoming biased against Western men — White Western men spent the last few centuries laboring in order to build up the economy so that everyone could enjoy a decent standard of living in advanced nations, doing all of the heavy and truly hard work like building roads, logging, farming/ranching, engineering, science, manufacturing, mining, etc — and now that everything has been built very many males are being tossed aside in favor of cheaper foreign or female labor. If women are the “second sex,” men have become the “disposable sex.”

All of this looks to me like a deliberate (even conspiratorial) attempt by a rootless cosmopolitan bankster/plutocratic class to undermine the entire economic foundation of The West and replace it with bottom-of-the-barrel femincentric and anti-White ‘serfice’ globalism.

Women entering the workforce led to dual-income families and a corresponding rise in meaningless consumerism. Look at how real-dollar wages have stagnated since the 1970s, but consumption has increased. Women are now working and there is ever more crap they “need” to buy. It’s hard for a middle-class man to support a family on just his wages now, unlike in the 1950s. Business knows this and likes it, because women working means both men and women have to work harder to make lesser-valued dollars that are then spent on ever-more-expensive things. Whether it’s a conspiracy or not…I tend to think it’s just one of the many, many horrific, corrosive side effects of feminism. Unfortunately, no one will wake up and correct course. It’s almost certainly far too late.

On top of this, women generally are horrible with money. They save and invest much, much less than man. They don’t plan for the future. They struggle with high-interest debt. The vast majority of subprime borrowers were women. Women are the primary targets of advertising and marketing. TV is produced entirely with an eye to tickling more consumer dollars out of women. Women “make the majority of household buying decisions.” (This is often touted as if that gives them power or makes them important–it doesn’t. It just means they blow more money on meaningless bullshit.)

In short, women in the workplace has contributed nothing positive since their entry decades ago. Real wages have declined or stagnated, and their hard-won dollars have mostly gone to far for stupid crap rather than drive investment and further innovation. Women working is like a hamster on a wheel…they work to buy themselves things and placate their materialistic desires, and for basic-level sustaining expenses like food and rent.

I’m in my late 40s, living in CA, where the courts in Sacramento have recently determined there is no due process in family court in our state.

Keep that in mind – if you rob a bank, you will receive more constitutional protections in court than you would if you were to face a judge in a civil divorce proceeding.

Marriage is not for men anymore, it is for the state and for women.

I’m seeing my friends in their 50s and 60s financially raped by divorce in an economy where they may never work again and where, in many instances, they will be paying their ex-wives alimony for at least a decade. This is iun an environment where many of my friends have lost their jobs, and will have a very very hard time finding additional employment.

Unless you really want kids, stay far, far away from marriage.

If you live in a state such as Massachusetts or California, where family law and statute are particularly biased against men, this is especially true.

[…] 2009 by Ferdinand Bardamu Speaking of LTRs and game, Epoxytocin No. 87 left an awesome comment on this Roissy post yesterday: Speaking from LTR-land, I also feel compelled to point out one HUGE oversight/incongruity on the […]

I can’t remember if it was Schopenhauer or Weininger who discussed the following concept, but I’m leaning towards Schopenhauer.

Anyways, the concept was that women go through three phases of “domination” in their lives. The first was when they are young, and are dominated by their fathers, second, they get married and are dominated by their husbands, and thirdly, in old age they are dominated by their sons. And of course, in each case she uses her submissiveness to get what she wants from each of the males.

Also, men and women have different “identity crises” during their life cycle.

Men have a large identity crisis called Mid-Life Crisis – which basically comes down recognizing mortality, as in, you start counting how many years until death, rather than how many years since birth. Of course, the single most dangerous time for a man to start having an affair, or to leave his wife, is during Mid Life Crisis.

Women, however, don’t have a Mid-Life Crisis similar to men. What they have is a series of smaller identity crisis that occur throughout their life-cycle. I described this concept of male “spikes” vs. female “rhythms” here.

According to Schopenhauer (?), the first serious identity crisis a woman goes through happens during the first few years of marriage. This is when a woman transfers from her father’s dominance to her husband’s – already a massive identity shift, if she gains part of her identity through the dominant man in her life.

Furthermore, she is now “off the market” and so, it now becomes socially unnacceptable for single men to “call on her” or to shower affection and praise upon her publicly. This ending of praise from society in general can be a shock to her system/identity, as well, she is now going to be having a baby or two, which is going to change her entire body – twisting, stretching, scarring… and this two diminishes her number one asset, her looks, which are a large part of her identity.

This all coincides with “Rotating Polyandry” urging a woman to find a new mate approximately every four years… is it any small wonder, that if Rotating Polyandry Forces psychologically impact a womn at around the 4 year mark, and Schopenhauer’s first “identity crisis” occurs at around the 5 year mark into marriage… is it any wonder that wives are so friggin miserable towards their husbands – is it any wonder that they initiate so many divorces/become miserable at this stage of a marriage?

And, of course, the Feminist Complex bleats at her constantly that it is ok to cheat, to “find herself”, to demand of her husband, blah, blah, blah.

Can you imagine if the cultural message was aimed at 40-something men, encouraging them to blow their nest egg on a Porsche, leave their wives, and start banging young chicks again… (Hey, wait a minute! Roissy!).

The reason marriage before No Fault Divorce “worked”, was because it kinda forced people to endure through these rough periods of their development/life cycle, until it passed, and other factors again increased the bonding aspect of marriage/family.

“gunslingergregi
Second wife stays in shape and she is still sexy to me though. I think bouts of time away help with that. Hence I do plan on continuing to take breaks and implement another woman into the mix so that it stays fresh plus I maximize kid output at some point along the road.

From my view. Woman have the most power before having sex, guys have the power after.

I guess the question would be if woman really are saying no how do you combat that?

I just never had em say no when I grab that ass and start fucking (except 6 months before 1st wife left). I guess I am
a special snowflake yay”

Of course you’re a special snowflake, once we subtract the hardwired to a particular mindset that drives men to seek a regular source of new (and younger) pussy of course. Your wife seems to be a lucky woman though. Maybe we can talk about recipes and the benefits of having our own money, plus the trust from husbands not to fuck everything up beyond repair that’s been earned not just automatic.

It’s understandable why marriage seems like a hell of one’s own making when the person has made a poor choice in whom they decided to marry. I just don’t think that it’s so impossible in the present time to find one person who is the better option and then stick with them for the long haul, and get married. Anyone should know that pressure to do something or else, whether it’s to get married or to stop leaving the toilet seat up, is a sign that they should keep looking because they can do better. Barring anything illegal or likely to cause serious bodily injury or permanently deprive them of the use of part of their body.

RP-in-TX
…and she’ll do filthy things in your bed (and out of your bed). She’ll fuck in public bathrooms, she’ll fuck you and blow you in cars. She’ll bend over willingly and she might even swallow…She’ll watch football with you, maybe even become a fan of your team. She’ll watch movies with you that you know she hates, and she’ll do it with minimal whining. She’ll cook you special meals, pick up random gifts…

My wife does all of those things and we’ve been married twelve years. I had never even heard of game until about a year ago. I’ve just behaved toward women like my dad did. He was married to my mom nearly 40 years so it never occurred to me that he had game. I just thought he was old school and so was I. His rules were basically like this:

1. I’m in charge. It’s my house and my rules.

2. Women talk a lot about everything and most of it doesn’t require a response and can be safely ignored.

3. I have expectations of you. Meet them.

4. This is who I am. If you don’t like it, then why are you here?

I think this is how most men behaved prior to about 40 years ago. It was the norm. A few years ago I was talking to some married friends who were all whining about their shrew wives. I finally got fed up and said to one of them “Grow a pair. She only behaves that way because you tolerate it. Take charge and quit putting up with that shit”. It was like I crapped on their dinner table. One of them said “I’m surprised you aren’t divorced yet”. All three of them agreed that their miserable marriages were the ideal “partnership” and mine was just a fluke because I lucked into finding a woman who wanted to be dominated. Funny, I wasn’t the one at the table who looked like he was ready to hang himself in the garage.

This about sums it up for me too. It works like a charm. Texas may yet save America.

I was 26 when my parents divorced. It still hurt and I still dreamed they would somhow get back together until my father died in 2001. I was 40 at the time. If I had been a child, it would have been devastating. I think much of what we complain about in this blog has its roots in divorce culture, which is now in its third generation. Feminism is evil.

working a lot lately and unable to comment, so I skipped all comments but DavefromHawaii´s and Epoxy´s,

I make Epoxy´s words mine. A guy who marries a girl who is already denying sex before marriage and gets screwed, deserves that. I do not find TA´s story an argument against marriage, but only against marrying frigid girls

a personal example: a very close friend who is a beta, 27 years old, will marry next year. With a girl who is 32 and already have a child, a boy with 3 years old, of another men. The girl aged well and is an 8, possibly an 8,5 or a 9.

when the shit inevitably hits the fan around 2018-2020, the men´s rights (aka losers) crowd will see him being raped in divorce court and will scream against women.

The role of her friends in husband-hating and divorce cannot be overestimated. Countless times, I have seen wives egged into divorce by the gang of harpies. They’ve all seen the same idiot movies, and there’s always one bitch in the pile who thinks she knows family law and how the wife can most effectively ass-rape hubby in court (good news: often she’s wrong).

Often, the harpies actively encourage on of the group to leave hubby, as a test-case — it’s really insidious, and part of why divorces cluster in groups.

Guys, when you are assessing your bitch, check out her friends closely. If she has some super-close gal-pals, that should be a BIG warning sign up front, even for an LTR (I won’t even mention marriage). The harpies will gang against you, guaranteed. Any woman who puts too much stock in what her “friends” think – this is most US women these days – should get ditched with extreme prejudice. Best if your bitch really has no close female friends, safer and easier for you.

Also: kudos to Roissy for putting TA’s whole email here, it’s excellent; he is pretty much Every Married Man in America circa 2009. It’s all in there, guys … read and learn. If you are contemplating marriage, you have seen the future, and it doesn’t work.

Only exceptions are:

1. She has a ton – I mean a ton, not “she has a great job” – of money. You can lead a life of leisure. Sure, you’re a man-whore, but you’re fat and happy. Ample funds paper over a lot of female sins.

2. She is from Eastern Europe (caveat: this can still end in disaster, if she gets infected by American culture – choose the gal carefully, and run Game constantly to endure freshness and loyalty).

3. She is a very traditional girl out of sync with American life in the early 21st century, ie she’s feminine, traditional, basically a 1950s woman trapped in a time-warp. These gals actually do exist, but they are very rare and precious. And they don’t hang out in bars much (though they are often quite hot and care about their looks, they understand the essence of HBD and Game without being instructed in it) — if you find one, Game her like hell and drag her back to your lair.

Last point, for Beta-Dads who are trapped in bad marriages yet yearn to be Alphas. Divorce is often a bad option for you – though not always the worst one; depends on your state’s laws – due to the child custody/support racket.

You can definitely run Game on even the worst wife, it can help a lot. But you need to get mistresses, note plural. That is where you will reestablish your manhood and rediscover that life is worth living.

However, as your consigliere, I implore you to do it Italian style, ie with secrecy and respect for your family. Be smart, don’t give the wife ammo for the divorce. Some pointers:

1. Choose the mistress carefully; avoid psychos at all costs. Hot-hot-hot sex with Crazy Bitch is not worth what will happen later. Stay off the late-20s/early-30s gals hunting for the husband/victim.

2. Lie, lie, lie about your name, profession, bio, etc; the less she knows about you, the better off you are. Practice your sociopathic mendacity. If she becomes your regular cum-dumpster, tell her a bit. Best to choose gals who have a man, since they will have as much to hide and lose, often, as you do.

3. Communications are the key vulnerability. Get a throw-away cell phone; each bitch needs her own phone. Use different email addresses. NEVER do anything on the home PC. Never tell your buddies specifics about your pussy safaris; there are morons who tell their wives, a total violation of ManLaw that will fuck you over. Be smart, your future may depend on it.

4. Needless to add, but I will: Don’t go whoring near home. Do it as far away as possible. Avoid problems while maximizing pussy. If you travel a lot, this is easy. In any event, planning is required.

5. When you are cornered by any of your women – and it will happen – Remember: Admit nothing, Deny everything, Make counter-accusations. (Repeat that mantra! Repeat it again!) Keep your cool, everything will be fine, because you’ve provided no actual evidence of your massive tom-catting all over the place. Now you are the Alpha of your dreams …

I wouldn’t be so enthusiastic about girls from Eastern Europe. Although there is less feminist brainwashing over there, they have other problems. For example, many of them are liars – this is a Communist legacy – it was difficult to live there without lying. And when it comes to feminism, they are catching up.

T.A., it’s one thing to write in the abstract about the many problems with today’s reigning feminist orthodoxy and its ensuing pollution, but quite another to actually go through with a divorce.

Without extremely good and extremely clear reasons (at the level of cheating), you would be doing a grave injustice to your “two gorgeous sons.” They need an intact family unit. The break-up of your marriage as they grow would be the equal of the death of you or your wife – because it is the death of their stability, and of the metaphysical but very real union of their creation.

Heh, good comments Esqure. Good to see you back. On the topic of mistresses, I watched an Austrian or German comedy back in 1982 or so, about a playboy who coaches beta-husbands on the fine arts of conducting and concealing their affairs.

When asked by one guy on what to do when caught by the wife in bed with another woman, in the act — he replied: “you still deny everything.”

“What!?” asked the friend, “but she SAW you naked in bed with a girl!”

The film then runs a vignette that explains to the incredulous man on how you deny even when caught in flagrante delicto:

The wife walks in, drops her stuff in shock, while the husband just looks at her, and the naked mistress jumps out of bed and starts getting dressed in a panic. The wife is screaming and hollering. The mistress runs out and disappears.

As the wife is freaking out and screaming her head off, the husband looks at her with calm surprise, and asks “Meine Schatz, what’s wrong?”

“Was ist den los?!” screams the wife — “I just caught you in bed with some tramp!”

“What? I don’t understand. What tramp?”

“The one that just got dressed and left!”

“I have no idea what you are talking about. I’ve been feeling ill and in bed alone all afternoon.”

The wife, less sure of herself: “… but, what about the girl… I saw a girl in our bed who just left…”

“Babe, come on, you are worrying me… are you feeling OK?”

At this point, the wife is seriously questioning her sanity and her recollection, as the husband smiles at her with gentle affection and lights his cigarette.

“Only reason I would ever get married is in a situation like Backdoor Man’s…if you want to bring your foreign girlfriend back with you. I had a sweetheart latina girlfriend when I lived in S. America. Sometimes I regret not taking a chance and bringing her with me. However, I’m convinced that this country would have ruined her. Her entire upbringing, social conditioning, and whatever efforts I would have made to shelter her from our corrosive culture…would not have been able to stand up to the tidal waves of bullshit in this country.”

I hear this a lot, and I guess it’s a legitimate concern. But it helps that we don’t own a television and her closest friends are also foreign-born. Sure, she works with American women, but they are either bitter 30-something singles or bitter married women with children. In either case, she doesn’t identify much with them, because during her little free time outside the home, she likes to be with other feminine and happy women, especially those who haven’t been cursed by materialism and the spiritual deprivations that come with an affluent upbringing. For years, I’ve told her she needs a wider circle of friends, but I guess it’s not going to happen at this point. And maybe that’s for the best.

The rule of thumb with EE girls is that the Catholic ones (Pole, Slovak, Croat, W. Ukraine) are a good bet, Orthodox (Russia, E. Ukraine) are not, and atheist ones (Czechs are nominally Christian, but atheism is strong there) are also shaky.

Non-Slavs like Romanian girls are probably the hottest among Eastern Europeans. But within EE they have a nasty rep for prostitution. Perhaps unfairly, on account of Romanian Gypsiy women who worked Poland’s roadsides during the 90s.

As with any girl from another country and culture who leaves her home expressly for the purpose of marriage, mercenaries are overrepresented.

Esquire’s point about a traditional American girl “stuck in a 50s timewarp” is a good one. Those girls exist, and should not be overlooked.

Enzo –
““she takes from me, by submission, something she could never have by force”

This, gentlemen and ladies, is the moral of the story.

[editor: agreed.]”

For more on this, seek out a copy of Marie Robinson, MD’s 1950’s era “The Power of Sexual Submission”. Brilliant and prophetic, this book was directed toward women with sexual dysfunction (aka “frigidity” back in the day). Modern day feminists consider this book to be downright satanic, and, from their fucked up perspective, they’re right.

I am going to put in a word for the Russians. My wife of 6 years is Russian. I was 34 and she was 26 when we met. Her friends tend to be excellent wives, not only in behavior, but in appearance. Note her circle of friends will not be divorce oriented Americans. If I were single, I’d go back without hesitation. The only bad ones were with huge age differences and in once case, a classic omega man.

That said, I see nothing wrong with any of Eastern Europe. I was in Hungry as well and they were good looking people. Its really about you anyway, that just makes it easier.

Chi-town: You know how stereotypes work: in many cases a grain of truth, but they aren;t always the whole truth. My comment above is the conventional wisdom on the subject, not necessarily my experience or an iron law.

Lots of women are liars. However only sociopaths never tell the truth. Get the truth. 9 out of 10 will tell you. Once you find your prize, instead of a gym shoes and sweat pants, you will claim your feminine prize of long hair, high heels and dresses. Take one more whiff of her and then put her over your shoulder.

@david – sounds about right. game for strong marriages or relationships, not for sleeping around, is great. and a woman would be lucky to have a man who gets it.

I might just be a lesser man (doubt it though, hehe), but I really don’t know if it’s working too good for relationships. Either youse guys marriages were way more fucked than mine (not cooking? occassional hot pocket is fine, but seriosly WTF?) or you still didn’t take the blue pill completely.
Here is my “story” – I was clueless greater beta/lesser alpha – getting girls, knowing basics as to not sucking up etc, but was really bad at the game and domination in particular, just going by luck and thus was serially heartbroken etc. I hate being controlling for many reasons (slacker, got authority issues, childhood). So, got married, naturally “gamed” the wifey to a decent extent (nicknames, you’re cute, good sex, not supplicating, shamelessly cheating/chasing girls etc, etc – funny, I used “nose wiggles” line before I even heard of Mystery, learned in principle from a natural buddy like 20 years ago). Well, guess what, she still cheated on me – I guess I just got outgamed. She tells me “revenge” was a big part of it, but I know better. Over the years of course I did become slightly betaized, again not as much supplicating as just becoming uncool and not controlling for the reasons of just not giving a shit.
Anyway, here’s the bottom line about marriage – the sex was never better than at booty calls I was getting from her few weeks after I kicked her out. After she moved back in (I can’t drive right now, live in suburbs, she didn’t get her own place and stayed at her friends for 2 months hoping to move back in) in a fucking less than a week the “respect” Tupac Chopra wrote about went out the window. Watching it with knowledge of the game was just fascinating. I don’t think she even feels sorry for cheating anymore. Of course, on the outside, I guess I still game her enough for her to cook and fuck and give bj’s and smile, but the feeling just isn’t there and I really think we’re rather on the second part of this list here:

The key I think is “be dominating not controlling”, cooler than her, and it’s barely possible in marriage. Controlling guys might look like they got it good on the outside and that’s the 1950’s style worshipped here so much, but it’s all good until a charming rogue comes along. And damn I tell ya, it sucks to be on a sucker hubby side of the that deal, karma’s a bitch in my case I guess =)

I know where that rep comes from. Russia had it the worst in 98. That means old men and betas with money were landing some of them. I can often spot an angry old man who’s 20 year old left him. He could have kept a 35 year old with 2 children but he can’t resist the candy. If you keep it under 10 -15 years and you have personal assets, they stick around.

This might be a little off topic. But this is something that I have learned after my interactions with women:

Women tend to be merciless! Especially if you are a nice guy (which I was until I found the community), you’ll get fucked oiver so many times.
Women play mind games on you, ignore you for no reason and act like they don’t even know you when they find something better elsewhere.
Since they act based off of emotions, I am caring and understanding and tend not to be too judgmental about their merciless actions.

So basically, it is worthwhile to go for what I want as a man and let the women who come into my life join the journey for the adventurous ride or feel free to leave.

And by the way, I can totally identify with “T.A.” I have a decent marriage with a decent woman who is basically under my thumb. The problem is that no matter how good a relationship is, it basically gets old after a while especially for the man.

The situation is a bit unfair because my genes are screaming at me to screw around with other women whereas her genes are telling her to do exactly what she is doing — putting her best energy into raising our children.

well, both me and the wifey are russian through and through and while there definitely are advantages (like cooking issues above or letting herself go), Game principles truly are universal, no matter with who or where.

TA said “…i also grew up a devout fundamental Christian – i don’t need to tell you all of the ways that that robbed me of game.”

Ditto, my friend. It’s like I was raised in a bubble. I had to start learning this stuff at age 28 (I’m 33 now). Had the same shit test you had, but I passed it – NOT because I was smart, but because my job transferred me and she didn’t want to leave her family.

“The situation is a bit unfair because my genes are screaming at me to screw around with other women whereas her genes are telling her to do exactly what she is doing — putting her best energy into raising our children.”

That is the basic dilemma. Of course you want to start banging other women. The problem is that gets old too. Men do have fathering instincts but it does not kick in until later. Women try to get men interested in babies but we don’t care. Once they grow up a bit, then we get interested. Its low/high investment strategy. Do not under estimate this avuncular instinct that can hit you in later years.

You will never have it all. I lived without banging women for a long time and when I didn’t, its really not that much different than jacking off in the shower for me to be honest. I also just can’t get past the STDs which probably means I am nature’s answer to the next plaque. I have those genes too.

The way I look at it is marriage for a man is it is a sacrifice to have a stake in the children. That is why it is an outrage for a women not to sacrifice and submit. Men give at the alter with fidelity. Beta men in marriage is an affront because of this.

Lastly if every man decides to go low investment, this society won’t be here. It will be a pile of SH**.

I’ve spent countless hours thinking about the uninspired, passionless albatross of a marriage that constantly tugs at my neck. Countless hours thinking about how incredible it would be to actually get to use my dick more than a couple of times a year. Countless hours spent amenting my shitty marriage with my equally miserable married buddiesl. I’ve thought about divorce a dozen times, but social pressures and family expectations have always held me back …

Fundamentalist Christianity (I’m “for it” by the way) works when the wife follows scriptural directive to submit to her husband, and the husband is a leader to his wife as Christ is to the Church. The guy’s betatude was limited to sexual fidelity and a tender treatment of a deserving wife.

What happened in many Christian communities is that the men have continued to treat women according to Christian teachings, but those women no longer reciprocated by submitting to their men.

“What happened in many Christian communities is that the men have continued to treat women according to Christian teachings, but those women no longer reciprocated by submitting to their men.”

this is absolutely true. like so many other venues, church has become a place where women can have their cake and eat it too. they can put up a nice display of righteousness at one of these cool, modern churches but then go home and snap on Cougar Town and chuckle at the fat herb who has to beg his wife for sex every couple of weeks. then go out shopping for a new pair of 7s for next week’s service.

No doubt about the imbalance. Women’s materialism is frowned upon with only lip service. Gluttony and fat barely register. However men are pounded mercilessly for having sexual thoughts. Even murderers are forgiven before the deviant, aka a man with normal male sexuality.

Being on a sexual schedule, it just couldn’t happen to me. I don’t have a relationship with a women who refuses me sex in any consistent organized manner. If you are in a church like this then treat it like any other cult. Leave it.

T.A If it’s not to late to turn the tables around, fight that housedragon of yours!
The last thing that will make her feel content is him being more and more apologetic, especially for things he shouldn’t feel remorse over.
T.A, you could take down the sun and put in front of her feet, she wouldn’t be impressed. Nothing he would do would make her happy, she is a great manipulator that needs to be stopped. Best made buy playing her own game back at her.
And the more he is avoiding conflict, the less she will look up to him. And that T.A is so scared of his own wife that he is not even daring to take actions, in one way or another, is a super big mistake, why is it so, that a lot of people that should be the closest to each other, are emotionally miles away.

1) People married at 20, and usually died by 50. The wife was still decent-looking for the first 15 years of the marriage, or half of the total married life. Today, marrying at 33 for a lifetime until 80, is totally different.
2) 10-20% of men died on the battlefield or in occupational accidents.
3) Social shaming, stigma, poverty of single mothers, etc. were major deterrents.

None of these forces exist today. Hence, marriage is not what it once was.

Separately, I remind everyone that anyone born after 1970 or so has a very good chance of living to be 110 or older, given anticipated medical advances. Keep that in mind regarding the ‘lifelong’ obligation of marriage (or alimony).

This is very true and is essentially “game changing” when it comes to the traditional beliefs of a society. The old rules of traditional society are simply no longer valid.

The last comment is key. If you are born in 1970, you’re likely to live to 2080. If you’re born earlier than this, I recommend that you consider cryonics (ask me for contact details). Unless mankind does something incredibly stupid, like an all out nuclear war (which is really unlikely), you stand a very good chance of immortality. Because by 2080 we will most certainly have stem-cell based regenerative medicine, SENS therapies, and synthetic biology. We will have some kind of molecular nanotech as well by this time. The aging process as we know it today is definitely going to be optional.

However (and this is the important part), you need to get from here to 2050 or 2080 in the best possible shape you can because there is no telling from right now when these advances will become available. Your mission in life, if you choose to take it, is to make it through this hurtle to the post-mortal “undiscovered country” that lies beyond in as best of physical and financial shape as you possibly can, while at the same time, having as much fun as you can along the way (after all, there are no guarantees). The worst possible thing anyone could ever do is to limit their life options. The future is going to be far more expansive than you can possibly imagine today. There is absolutely no reason to cut yourself off from it.

“You will never have it all. I lived without banging women for a long time and when I didn’t, its really not that much different than jacking off in the shower for me to be honest. ”

To an extent you are right, but in my opinion, the early stages of a relationship yield a lot more than just hot sex. There is also a feeling of being connected with the other person. Which I still feel for my wife, but it’s just nowhere near as intense.

No matter what way you look at it, marriage is a lose-lose. Women don’t “need it” anymore to have money, to have babies, or to have “security”…..and it’s never been about the sex for women since we can get sex anytime and any place (meaning marriage certainly isn’t necessary for THAT reason)….so really, there is absolutely NO benefit to a woman getting married. Period.

For men, it’s just as stupid because you have the possibility of getting financially fucked by the long dick of the law…..and it definitely does not help men get laid, either…..soooooo what’s the point?

That’s sort of always been my problem with marriage. No one has ever presented even one (non-religious opinion-related) reason why I (or anyone) should do it!

Married Betas,
You are learning LTR Game. You are trying to turn around your marriage. You’ve begun asserting your dominance to restore the masculine/feminine polarity in your relationship. You are passing her shit tests. She is turning around but not as much as you’d like. At some point, you need to play the “I will leave you” card. When you do, I suggest something to this effect:

“I will continue to do everything in my power to transform this marriage, but when the day comes that I feel I have done everything I can do, I’m gone. And I will leave you with no regrets knowing that I have done everything I could.”

It’s not an ultimatum, just a fact. Your woman will respect this. (Props to David Deida).

The affect on my wife was was a little surprising. I noticed a change in her attitude right away. The best word to describe it is demure.

Also, I suggest you adhere to all of Roissy’s commandments of poon, especially #1, slightly modified for marriage, “Never tell her you love her ever again.” During the turnaround you will want to tell her your feelings for her, don’t. Dominate her lovingly, but don’t say it. She wants to feel your love, not hear it.

I know where that rep comes from. Russia had it the worst in 98. That means old men and betas with money were landing some of them.

Unfortunately, the problem is much deeper than that. The Soviet regime lasted for seven decades, and during this time, the requirements for upward social mobility (and often even just for ordinary work and life) strongly selected for sociopathic and hypocritical behavior. Just imagine what it took to prosper (and often merely to survive) under Lenin and Stalin — and even later, when the mass-murdering brutality subsided, the system was still based on all-pervasive pious lies and hypocrisy ineptly masquerading a ruthless struggle for political power and patronage, down to the lowest levels in all aspects of life. In Russia and Ukraine, this has been true to a large degree even in the post-communist years.

Of course, as always, there’s a lot of ruin in a nation, and human nature is resilient even when forcibly pushed in the direction of evil, so large pockets of traditional humanity, virtue, and decency have survived throughout this period. But it’s undeniable that many people have adapted to the general atmosphere of sociopathy and ruthlessness, so it’s unsurprising that many women coming from the ex-USSR are ruthless golddiggers.

Other EE post-communist countries have suffered under similar pathological systems, but in a milder form and for a significantly shorter period, so the ex-USSR really stands out in this regard. (Incidentally, PA is right to single out Western Ukraine as significantly different from Russia and Eastern Ukraine, and this is to a large degree because these areas were incorporated into the USSR only after WW2.)

…regime lasted for seven decades, and during this time, the requirements for upward social mobility (and often even just for ordinary work and life) strongly selected for sociopathic and hypocritical behavior. Just imagine what it took to prosper (and often merely to survive)

If you think that’s hard
try being a white guy
getting an affirmative action job
with the government

My feelings for my wife certainly are not as intense as they were. However that always lasts for maybe 6 months. Doing it again only confirms the illusion. The best that could ever come of it is ending up with someone like my wife. That just means getting a cad fix. A bad marriage is much more than lacking a cad fix.

Ultimately I know one thing. My wife is the last person who deserves to have me dump her after she gave me her youth. I simply could not betray it. She does not have the b*tch gene. She woke me up rubbing my back this morning.

If I were with someone who came back from feminist camp, then I would make another example. I guess I already did a few times.

If you are born in 1970, you’re likely to live to 2080. If you’re born earlier than this, I recommend that you consider cryonics (ask me for contact details). Unless mankind does something incredibly stupid, like an all out nuclear war (which is really unlikely), you stand a very good chance of immortality. Because by 2080 we will most certainly have stem-cell based regenerative medicine, SENS therapies, and synthetic biology. We will have some kind of molecular nanotech as well by this time. The aging process as we know it today is definitely going to be optional.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed that the actuarial science disagrees with you — if I’m not mistaken, the current actuarial tables report something like 35-40 years of remaining life expectancy for the present 40 year olds. Considering that vast amounts of money are invested based on these expected values, why do you believe that you’re capable of second-guessing them correctly? Do you think that actuarial science is hopelessly biased when it considers these developments extremely unlikely, and that the entire insurance industry is living in fatal delusions?

When it comes to SENS, I’m extremely skeptical towards people who reach out to popular audiences with their supposedly grand scientific breakthroughs before they’ve managed to convince any significant number of the actual scientists about the validity of their work, and also before any practical results whatsoever have been shown. The fact that de Grey is a software engineer with an amateur interest in life sciences doesn’t fill me with much confidence either.

No one has ever presented even one (non-religious opinion-related) reason why I (or anyone) should do it! [get married]

They have, including here, numerous times. You just don’t want to hear. I’ll tell you and do so in one word:

Children.

Additional reasons are that even in an affluence society where women can earn enough to raise children on their own, they can enjoy a lot more family income if they’re married. The trade off of this with freedom is a lot more compelling under current American conditions where children are involved or planned soon.

Of course feminists have responded to this by raising child support in the early 90s, that period of heavy feminist lobbying and law making, to be a huge percentage of a man’s after tax (take home) earnings. Like often 1/3 of them for one kid. So hey, have a kid out of wedlock and hit him up for his earnings without giving him sex in exchange if more exciting alpha boys beckon. Girls WIN!

But many women, particularly as round the 30s corner or get close to it, do want a long term stable realtionship for emotional and companionate reasons, beyond the economic and child rearing ones.

But hey, if that get’s old, just divorce him, and stlll get most of his economic support that she got when married, but not with no obligations in return. And hey, he can take the kids on as many weekends as she wants, to free her up for dating. Girls WIN!!

“I don’t know if you’ve noticed that the actuarial science disagrees with you — if I’m not mistaken, the current actuarial tables report something like 35-40 years of remaining life expectancy for the present 40 year olds.”

I would guess that (1) those tables are based on past history; and (2) insurance companies are incentivized to estimate low in life expectancies since it lets them charge higher premiums for life insurance.

That said, I think kurt9 is being overly optimistic. The fact is that technology is notoriously difficult to predict.

Considering that vast amounts of money are invested based on these expected values, why do you believe that you’re capable of second-guessing them correctly? Do you think that actuarial science is hopelessly biased when it considers these developments extremely unlikely, and that the entire insurance industry is living in fatal delusions?

I answer “Yes” to both questions for the following four reasons:

1) Being in the community, not only am I more knowledgeable about pending life extension technologies, there are things that I am doing right now that both the medical community and insurance industries are either unaware of or not possible. This includes stuff like Resveratrol and chelation of Mercury with ALA. These are just two examples of my current regimen.

2) Also, consider that these industries are dominated by large corporations. If you have ever worked for a large organization, you will no doubt aware of how bureaucratic it can be. Bureaucracy is always dysfunctional, the larger the bureaucracy, the more dysfunctional it is. It does not matter if these organizations are full of “experts”. History is full of cases where the experts were wrong. I believe in this case they are wrong again.

3) SENS started out small. However, if you look at the research that was presented at the SENS forth conference that took place this fall, you will note that there are more and more serious researchers joining the field. There is definitely a snowball effect occurring.

4) The other reason why I expect radical life extension by mid century is that we are living in the “bio-tech” century and biotech is undergoing the same kind of “Moore’s Law” improvement curve that the Semiconductor industry is famous for. In biotech’ s case, it is called Carlson’s Curves and it virtually guarantees that R&D that requires millions of dollars and large teams today will be done by individual working on shoe-string budgets in home labs, say, around 2030. DIY biology (crudely called bio-hacking) will become very powerful in the next decade.

In answer to your question, yes. I fully expect to beat the actuarial odds as compiled by those large insurance companies. There is a bit of personal moxie on my part. I’m going to make it come hell or high water and I don’t a flying f*ck what you, the “experts” or anybody else has to say about it.

Anyways, I always have the option of cryonic suspension as a back up if I fail the first time around. So, its just plain tough if you don’t like.

Also, actuarial data is just computer modeling. Garbage in, garbage out. It assumes the standard of group behavior. It does not take into account individual actions on the part of those like myself that allow us to beat the odds.

I don’t walk around on eggshells. As a result, the riffs are shorter and less deep. And when they do happen, she’s now much more quick to apologize (dressed in lingerie no less).

It’s true that marriage is a process of betaization. …But only if you permit that to happen. Your wife/gf will only impose as much of a beta frame onto you as you allow. If you don’t resist, you WILL be assimilated.

””””””Msexceptiontotherule,
once we subtract the hardwired to a particular mindset that drives men to seek a regular source of new (and younger) pussy of course. Your wife seems to be a lucky woman though. Maybe we can talk about recipes and the benefits of having our own money, plus the trust from husbands not to fuck everything up beyond repair that’s been earned not just automatic.

It’s understandable why marriage seems like a hell of one’s own making when the person has made a poor choice in whom they decided to marry. I just don’t think that it’s so impossible in the present time to find one person who is the better option and then stick with them for the long haul, and get married. ””””””’

Exactly earned trust before marriage. Actually go through some stuff in life before you tie knot.

To make the right choice for marriage you have to know what you want to do in life but then I think actually do some of that before marriage. Then hey if they fit the criteria you should be able to work with them to iron out the kinks and make descision to marry for life.

You have to marry the right girl. Then you (and she) can have most things. Life never runs smoothly, but at least you are in it together.

Again, from the perspective of twenty years of marriage, I can offer the following advice to younger men:

Marry a virgin in her twenties. Even if she isn’t a virgin on your marriage day, make sure it was you that deflowered her. You will be her only man. She won’t have other men in her head. There won’t be a whole lot of men running around who can say, “I fucked his wife”. If you marry a woman who has had other men sexually, you are effectively already a cuckold when you marry.

If possible, take her straight from her father’s home. She will be less independent, and used to male authority.

Pursue your career with ambition. It is better for you both if you become and remain the main breadwinner. She will complain if you rise too high, but she would have complained more if you didn’t rise high enough.

Women really aren’t very happy a lot of the time. This is not always your fault.

Don’t do housework out of a sense of duty. That is her job.

If she is not fairly submissive before marriage, don’t marry her. Things won’t get better. If she seems to win all the arguments while you are engaged, drop her.

It is good for her to have an education and a sensible job for a woman (nursing, teaching, librarianship) – but not too advanced. She will be too old after Graduate school, too set in her ways, and she won’t take kindly to the ironing board. Don’t assume that a higher education will make her more interesting to talk to. Women aren’t that intellectually interesting; they pass exams well but they don’t seem to think much afterwards; most of the time a marriage with children is like a small business (there is not much time for deep discussions). As an Ancient Roman wrote: It is better that your wife knows how to cook than how to read Greek.

Women read novels and knit. That is what they do. Nobody prevents them from reading philosophy or mathematics. They just don’t.

Women are good for: a certain amount of sex, bearing children you will love, cooking and laundry, physical if not intellectual companionship. A true saying “Marriage is a long conversation” (though not always an interesting one.)

A cleaning lady once a week takes some of the pressure of your wife. So does your wife working part-time.

“Then it only makes since that society is tolerant of discrete female infidelity as well.”

The problem is that for 80-90% of women, cheating means replacing their spouse sexually.

Roissy pointed this out a few posts back. When a man cheats on his wife, he might be perfectly happy with his marriage and in love with his wife — for him, cheating is a supplement to his relationship with his wife.

For most women, cheating means that they no longer love their husbands and/or want to replace him sexually. So cheating by a wife is best not tolerated, even putting aside the issue of cuckoldry.

Still, for the 15 percent of women who are total sluts and who can cat around while still being in love with their husbands, some degree of discreet infidelity should arguably be tolerated once their child-bearing years are over. In this day and age, a guy probably knows it if his wife falls into this category. Heck, many guys would not mind – or would even approve – if their slut wife sluts it up. Just do a google search for “cheating wives” or “slut wives” and you will see.

“There aren’t enough women to go around for every man to have more than one.”

That’s not true, since a much higher percentage of men than women die young, end up in jail, become seriously disabled, or become homosexuals.

Besides, tolerating infidelity is not the same thing as encouraging or expecting it. If a man cannot find a girl who is willing to marry him, it’s a tragedy. If a married man cannot find a mistress, it’s no big deal.

I’m late to this thread, which had an unusually large number of great insights. I may be one of the few men here who got married a *second* time – the triumph of hope over experience, as the joke goes. Am very happy this time around, because, not to repeat the obvious, but a great partner makes the institution work beautifully and an unsuitable one makes it a living hell. For those on the fence, I recommend getting married later in life, when you are more mature, more self aware, and more desirable. And you can marry a woman much younger than yourself, which we all know here is the way to go. Don’t marry any younger than 40, late 30s at the outside.

Also wanted to second this bit by fedrz:

The reason marriage before No Fault Divorce “worked”, was because it kinda forced people to endure through these rough periods of their development/life cycle, until it passed, and other factors again increased the bonding aspect of marriage/family.

In our instant-gratification culture, in which adolescent patterns of behavior are encouraged to continue well into middle age, people are disinclined to sacrifice or live outside themselves, for other people or for institutions. Remember that marriage isn’t, ultimately, *supposed* to be all about your happiness or her happiness. It harnesses *both* sexes into an institution that is the cornerstone of civilization, imposing sacrifices and contraints on both. Those who have kids know it is worthwhile, though. This isn’t to suggest that people in miserable marriages should just suck it up – I have cheered friends getting divorces from shrewish wives – but it does mean that even with the best partner, there will be times where you’ve gotta suck up and do things you don’t wanna do for the greater good. (As does she.) And this is something men shouldn’t whine about, if understood/ defined correctly.

No one has ever presented even one (non-religious opinion-related) reason why I (or anyone) should do it! [get married]

As well it’s socially advantageous that you and the vast majority of other women are socially and culturally coerced into marriage before and as a condition for having children at least, and that you remain in marriage except for egregious fault while the children are minors, both for the children and hence society, but also to induce a much higher percentage of the male population (betas) to be invested in their own and the societies success. Because they’re getting some on the regular, want to support their families, and hence care about their communities and so on. The two parent, male and female, family as building block of the society.

As well female slutting it up before marriage, if extensive, in most cases severely reduces her ability to strongly pair bond with her husband.

How may girls who marry after 30 and after 30 sexual partners, half or more of them alphas, genuinely ADORE their husbands?

How many 20yo virgins or 2 prior sex partners girls do? (A LOT more, for sure. Particularly in societies when this is the usual case.)

Feminism is terrible for families, and accordingly children, and for both reasons, society. Once it’s had time to rot those societies away for awhile. There’s a lot of built up social capital in countries where feminism has most taken strong hold. I.e. the Anglosphere.

Then it only makes since that society is tolerant of discrete female infidelity as well. There aren’t enough women to go around for every man to have more than one.

Many married men cheat with single or divorced girls. As well some married women do double (and then some) duty.

This is different from the average (as opposed to median) number of sexual partners in a society, men versus women. It mathematically has to in fact be equal (leaving aside couplings with those outside the society which are small in number). This has been convincing demonstrated by mathematicians. (Not that this is like solving the Riemann Hypothesis or anything.)

There are few areas in which a double standard is more justified, contra first wave Anglosphere and here especially American feminists. It has to do with female vs. male bonding, and breaking that bond. It’s been discussed on threats here at length.

As well there’s no such thing as male adultery in the bible. Adultery means female adultery. It’s only later churchmen that said differently.

Being in the community, not only am I more knowledgeable about pending life extension technologies, there are things that I am doing right now that both the medical community and insurance industries are either unaware of or not possible.

I’m not sure what “community” you’re referring to, but the information on which you’re basing your conclusions is public and easily available via Google. What, in your opinion, is the reason for this willful delusional ignorance in the actuarial community? Why are people whose job is to figure out tables of life expectancy in denial about these (according to you) highly probable developments?

Also, consider that these industries are dominated by large corporations. If you have ever worked for a large organization, you will no doubt aware of how bureaucratic it can be. Bureaucracy is always dysfunctional, the larger the bureaucracy, the more dysfunctional it is. It does not matter if these organizations are full of “experts”.

Well, using the same argument, you could argue that Intel, being a vast corporation with lots of bureaucracy, cannot possibly be up to the mind-bogglingly complex and difficult task of making billion-transistor chips. Very large organizations can operate with amazing efficiency and competence if they’re properly constituted and managed. I don’t know much about the insurance business, but I would be surprised if it was so incompetent as you claim.

Your list about women seriously made me almost roll on the floor laughing in genuine tears. Not being sarcastic at all but seriously can you name even 2 women you have EVER met in your life who have ever knitted and/or even know what knitting is????

I realize you’re just trying to make a big show of basically saying “women are dirt and they suck and should do my laundry and cook stuff” but seriously, this is not a Beastie Boys song and we are not 17 anymore, so most of your really strange assumptions about women are so farfetched that I don’t think anyone could take you seriously.

Well I honestly cannot answer you as to “how many women over 30 love their husbands” and all that because as you know I have never been married and have never even considered it.

I like family (which is why I just got a 5 bedroom house for me, my sis, and her 4 kids) but would still never allow some dude to live in my house. I’m the Lady of our household and would like to keep it that way, thank you!!!

Plus my sister and I love to show off our boys. She has all tall, white blonde, blue eyed boys (and one girl) and my son is much the same. I don’t really take “feminism” or lack thereof into consideration when dealing with my family or children. Remember, I was raised that”everyone else is crap except for your immediate family and people just like you”

So a husband is sort of an “outsider” to me…..or a live in boyfriend or whatever the case….not my thing at all.

Game in marriage or live together LTR’s helps yes. But there’s still the enormous unfairness to men of divorce American style. Which marriage enables her to wreck on men, and hold as a power dynamics cudgel.

Well put. A lot of what is said on game forums gets past our P.C. think self-tarding blinkers and puts things in a harsh and useful perspective.

Thinking in terms of power dynamics is one such perspective.

The man must wage war, fight, earn social domination. Relationship is NOT about compromize. It’s about power.

You can still save yourself if she reveals her hand before children arrive. Then, it’s harder on you if you love your kids. I speak from experience. Had I known how things would turn out, I would have fled like a man from a burning house. But if you love your children, then it’s not an easy decision to leave.

After a lifetime of painting oneself into a corner, a man looks around in shock and says “This is not my beautiful house! This is not my beautiful wife!”

The problem isn’t that he didn’t treat the marriage with the appropriate level of game. The problem isn’t that his wife turned on him. It’s that he spent his entire life painting himself into a corner.

Options, options, options. Passport. Portable forms of income. Options with other girls or the ability to get them.

And why not apply that life philosophy to children? Is the nuclear family the only, or even the best way to love kids? Even granting that it could be the best, a strategic approach would be to live a life that is the enactment of planning options. The kids should have an extended network of support, such that if you leave, they can prosper.

Never have a life with only one road in front of you. If you do, it’s your fault, as the driver when there is congestion – not the fault of the other people on the road.

Still, my broader point is this: You use game on your wife. What’s the point? You might say that one may as well make the best of a bad situation. There’s some logic to that.

Using game takes time and effort. Most wives aren’t worth the hassle.

When married my wife would complain “You know marriage takes work. You have to take me out on dates. Keep things fresh.”

I didn’t have the heart to tell her that I didn’t want to keep things fresh.

It took me a while to learn that you can’t tell yourself what to want. If you don’t want it, that’s that. Emotions are not a decision.

People who say that love is a choice and marriage is hard work have a very different notion of relationship than I do.

I follow my passions, I don’t enforce a lifestyle in the hope that passions will follow. Passions don’t follow.

People who plan for an elderly mate to wipe their ass in old age are not following passions, and compromise and wind up with a passionless life. While risk takers live a life of passion. And loss. And renewal. And passion. We get springtimes of love, over and over. And fall and winter. Renewal.

Why indeed work to save a marriage? Work hard for something you don’t even want.

Protecting a marriage is like protecting an alpine forest from fire. It’s ecologically unsound, and you wind up with a raging uncontrollable inferno from all the built up deadwood anyway.

Marriage is like global cooling. At first the winters get longer, then approaches the glacier. How to cope? Build igloos? Roam across the tundra with wife and reindeer? Why cope at all when you can migrate to the places where the brown skinned girls are.

Protecting a marriage is like defending a snow fort. It seems important at the time, but you grow out of it.

Woman objects more strongly to bachelordom than anything else, because she is altogether a match-maker, and this makes her try to get men to marry; but if a man is already married she at once loses most of her interest in him, however much she liked him before. If the woman herself is already married, that is to say, when each man she meets is not a possible solution to her own fate, one would not imagine that a married man would find less favour with her because he was married than when he was a bachelor if the woman herself is unfaithful; but women seldom carry on an intrigue with another woman’s husband, except when they wish to triumph over her by making him neglect her. This shows that the disposition of woman is towards the fact of pairing; when men are already paired she seldom attempts to make them unfaithful, for the fact of their being paired has satisfied her instinct. – http://www.theabsolute.net/ottow/sexcharh.html#nwsu

But it’s undeniable that many people have adapted to the general atmosphere of sociopathy and ruthlessness, so it’s unsurprising that many women coming from the ex-USSR are ruthless golddiggers.

People pointing to this or that culture to find or avoid gold diggers misunderstand nature vs nurture.

Women ARE gold-diggers. Culture only affects how they display their gold diggery.

Imagine if women claimed that men are more horny in some cultures than others. Men ARE horny. Culture only affects how we display this.

There is no group of women who are not gold diggery whores, deep down and in their heart of hearts. It is the nature of woman.

Sure, some women will be more or less so. But not some cultures. Some women are more or less horny. But not some cultures of women. Some women may be genetically more disposed to being horny – the latins or black, perhaps. Some women may be genetically more predisposed to gold diggery – the neurotic jews, perhaps. But take the same genetic stock, and culture will have significant group influence on gold diggery.

Culture is weak. Behavior is mediated MOSTLY by desire and opportunity.

I’m married 18 years. I’m over 40. I was the Beta husband but alpha businessman. One day last spring wife said she wanted out, typical WAW (walk away wife) moment. I panicked and turned more beta than ever. Was pushing her out the door with this change. Her sense of loyalty and kids kept her in the house.

then I discovered sites like this one and the lights turned on.

I can tell you game is the only way to save a marriage. As an alpha outside the house, it was fairly easy to transition this attitude into the house. Although it seemed counter intuitive considering the feminization training I’d received since a kid. It immediately showed results.

I use the 16 commandments with some modifications as I adapt them into my Christian morality.

Now my wife’s friends flirt with me. My wife misses me. She works hard to please me. She is a great woman who was looking for a real man.

Now she has one and there is unity in the universe.

Don’t fear marriage it can be a great thing. Be very afraid of being a Beta.

Women aren’t needed in the workforce. Nations can do perfectly well without women working outside the home. The West made excellent progress before women entered the workforce in large numbers a few decades ago. Japan and the other Asian economies have done well with women at home.

Japanese women have always been the foundation of the Japanese electronics industries. Who do you think assembled all those radios/TVs/VCRs etc?

And now the Chinese and Korean women are fundamental to their electronics industries.

Don’t let your White boy fantasies about submissive, stay at home Asian women get in the way of reality.

Women participating in the economy as workers, consumers, debt carriers are absolutely necessary to the modern global capitalist system.

Beta/omega dorks fantasizing about a world of docile female homebodies will not change anything.

“Now my wife’s friends flirt with me. My wife misses me. She works hard to please me. She is a great woman who was looking for a real man. Don’t fear marriage it can be a great thing. Be very afraid of being a Beta.”

I am afraid some of your commenters mar an otherwise thought provoking blog. The comments about women being walking vaginas, stupid, etc., is just too easy. I say this as a female who thinks plenty of PEOPLE in general are vapid.

The truth is that people (especially you betas!) should really consider NOT having children. Astute women can usually sniff out sexless married men. You make it so painfully obvious. Fortunately, this can work to your advantage if you desire a mistress, but I don’t recommend an affair due to some of the afforementioned reasons.

The truth is children are notorious passion killers. Women know this, too, but motherhood can ameliorate this loss (In order for an erotic life to thrive, there needs to be spontaneity and the privacy to incorporate any kinks you wisht to explore. With children around that is simply NOT possible. By stating that, I have just removed any reason for most people to marry. So, don’t marry. Serial monogamy may be the way to go.

[blockquote] The truth is that people (especially you betas!) should really consider NOT having children. Astute women can usually sniff out sexless married men. You make it so painfully obvious. [/blockquote] – blacksquirrel

I identify with SW. “Game” is useful in marriage, as I am increasingly discovering.

When my wife and I parted in the city this morning, in public, she kissed me. She is not normally very demonstrative. I swatted her lightly on her bottom and told her to “remember your place”.

I look back on our marriage, over the years, and I can see a pattern in retrospect of our being happier when I was more confident and in control. Recently, the more “game” I apply the happier we both seem to be.

Once one becomes aware of these issues, one notices one’s feelings and identifies and names them: “supplicating”, “walking on eggshells”, simply being nervous of one’s wife’s moods, letting her temper control the house, living in emotional fear. It is so much better to go beyong this. There is a sense of confidence and freedom.

Old answer:

Her: Would you like a cup of tea?
Me: If you are making one.

New answer

Her: Would you like a cup to tea?
Me: Yes.

I now think that sayings like this are pernicious: “Ain’t Momma happy, ain’t nobody happy”. And I now think that one of the greatest bits of folk-wisdom I ever heard was “Treat her mean and keep her keen”.

Well, it is usually a constellation of behaviors. This is key: Married men not getting laid on a regular basis at home are hypersensitive to female attention; they bask in it! You can really see this played out in the workplace, grad school, etc. Some beta dudes will not actively troll for an affair which is fine and noble, but the way they try to engage women around them can be even more pernicious because it seems like they are fishing for an emotional affair (even they might not know what that is!) or something, perhaps, ultimately physical. They talk. A lot. Some are decorous enough to not complain about the spouse, but they reveal a surprisingly amount of personal information. Another thing. Men look. A lot. During inappropriate times. At a surprisingly variety of women–even 5’s–despite having a 7 at home!! Of course all men look, but there is a way to do it without the person in your company noticing it. These guys have no filter. Another sign, that sometimes accompanies the first one, is sudden weight gain of about 10-15 lbs. Why? Food is often used as a substitute for a lack of sex. Women do this too, btw.

As much as I think this misogynist talk is pitiful and think some of you should be kicked in the ‘nads if you really live and breathe this stuff, I want to punch out every woman who uses their womb as a form of manipulation. Let me explain. If you don’t know anything about borderline personality disorder, you need to look this up ASAP. Most BPDs are women. Women with BPD are a hot mess–literally, they are often super-hot women. I know of a borderline who entrapped her current husband by getting pregnant. She thought she was infertile. Yeah, right. She flat-out lied. We all have a rough idea when we are ovulating and I suspect he played right into her hand because he wanted to break up with her. Another example, however, this woman is not borderline, just super dominant. The husband says he doesn’t want another child; the one they have is a handful. Wife accepts this for a few years, and as the clock is ticking, she begs and begs until the husband caves in.

I don’t consider the actuarial statistics as generated by the insurance companies to be any more relevant to me personally than I do average per cap-ta income statistics. Both calculations are based on averages drawn from a population consisting of individuals of whom the vast majority I have nothing in common with.

I do not consider people I have nothing in common with to be relevant to my future and what I make of it.

Woman = vagina. Sexual pleasure tools. Nothing more. Can make babies too, but having kids is optional and, in these times, highly discouraged. Wrap it or get snipped.

*The Last Shrieks of a Sinking Ship*

I don’t get what you’re trying to say here. We only have sex with you when we need something. We also can have babies completely and entirely without you.

I agree, though that all men except for a carefully selected few should be snipped at birth to prevent…well….men.

I’ve told you all before that if you would CEASE to be obsessed with sex, the acquisition of sex, watching things related to sex, and of course the fascination with your own penises, you MIGHT have a chance in NOT becoming exactly what you’ve become.

Tongue wagging, shrieking, babies that can’t do anything without a woman holding your hand and practically wiping your asses for you. That is all YOUR faults for not being able to disengage your penis from being attached to your brains.

I’m pretty new to this gaming etc.I was pointed to this blog when I asked a question on a forum.
My problem is my wife gets jealous,I have now found it is more of a shit test than anything so I make fun of it or amplify and escalate etc.
I have recently been going out for beers with the lads etc,started to go to a martial arts class (lose weight) and generally get a life for myself .
We have been married for 4 years and have kids so I want to make the marriage work as best as possible (lots of slutty sex and domestic bliss i.e she cooks for me and breakfast in bed ,massages me )
She has started to wear skirts something she has not done for at least 15 years ,so I think she wants me to notice her more( I read this as she wants more power in the relationship).
I seem to be doing something right
my question is it ever ok to allow/ask a woman to be more dominant in bed,I like her to do this occasionally.

Also she knows I have been reading up on the subject and sometimes mocks me If I’m being more pushy etc
How do I maintain a balance in the relationship of enough sex and domestic bliss without becoming to needy

How do I talk about not becoming too needy do you mean talk to her or something else
getting on top being more forceful dressing kinky ,ball squeezing gently lol.digging her heels in etc nothing extreme.

Dunno about having it worked out, we have been married about 4 years together for about 15-16 and guess what she really wanted to get married and what happens when we do !! yeah the relationship starts hitting problems..

OOOOOO….this is what all the men that cant get laid are doing all the time. This is Wendy Schwartz’s sister actually. Shes been telling me about how all u losers are obsessed w her. Truly funny. Way to take your “man power” back.

P.S. You were all obsolete long ago, you’re just too dumb to know it. Too busy listening w drool comin out the corner of your mouths.

I have to say that, comments-wise, this is the best thread I’ve seen on Roissy’s blog. So many useful firsthand accounts from men who have actually experienced it. Some real good material (at least up to the point the trolls and hags began arriving).

LTR/marriage game is an under-served and important market. Roissy, you should seriously consider doing a book on it. Most guys out there, particularly those over 30, aren’t hanging around bars or picking up women as a hobby but could find real value in learning how to take the reins and improve their LTRs or marriage. Society as a whole would benefit from this.

Spoken like a true man-gina…As an African American “Negro”, I find your remarks incredibly hilarious. Whats more barbaric:

Being stuck in a sexless, passionless, one way marriage…

Or being a MAN who’s respected as such in his home and society; able to have sex with multiple women of your own choosing, who respect your sex needs as a divine right, instead of some special privilege?

Since you come from a ‘morality’ standpoint, you’d do well to go back and re-read the bible…where men are admonished to always be men…not weak wussies who allow women to run all over them!

Marriage IS a wonderful institution, WHEN its done correctly! Do you honestly believe God respects the type of nonsense seen on Bridezilla?! Where’s the morality in that sh!t…?!

You should direct your comments to the female readers of Cosmo, Essence, Red Book, and other magazines geared towards the female audience…seeing that women file most of the divorces in this country.

[…] On his own, he decides that making things permanent (marriage) is the way to go. Note: sometimes he realizes this after she tells him she is leaving him (e.g., as sweetly as possible she tells that she is traditional girl, looks like he doesn’t share her views, so she needs to move on, etc. No matter what she does NOT put him down in any way for possibly not wanting to marry her. She makes it all about her being different and having to go her own way. Girls, a forced situation or ultimatum is always disastrous). […]

How I see it, (and I may just may be repeating things that most people on here already said or know) is that the problem with men getting married is that alot of men have nothing really going for them or have no lives at all. I’m in my mid 20’s, and I remember when I was younger, me and my friends used to hang out all the time drinking, going after women, etc. But after a certain point you get tired of that and most men ask themselves, “What’s next?” They jump into marriage because they are pressured into it and/or “bored with their lives”, and they hate it or cheat later. To me, I live like I’m never going to die, so if you get tired of running around in the street after women, why not take a breather and focus on yourself for awhile and then hit them up later, women are not going to just disappear. Why put yourself in a lifelong commitment just because you feel bad at the moment? Shit, I almost ended up like the guy in the email too, but I walked because I woke up and realized she was running game on me, and I went out and improved myself and got back into my old hobbies, etc. After all that long winded, non paragraph typing, what men need to do is get a real life, get some real value/game, and understand that women shame men into this shit because most women want to get pregnant in the same way men want to fuck. All this perfect girlfriend shit is them running game on you(my mother taught me that). It’s flattery, women only flatter a man if she’s running game on you.

Thought this post was made November 9, 2010 because just got the email.

The new film “Hall Pass” is about this subject, or guys wishing they were single again – their wives getting pissed off at them looking at younger women and saying “OK, fine, I will give you a one week hall pass to do what you want”.

I assume they film’s producers are going to make the guys given a “Hall Pass” for one week from marriage FAIL at that…and thus (be forced by “reality” to) appreciate their wives more.

I only saw the trailer but it sounds like its going to be about guys learning that they can’t handle being single again.