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The Democrat party is absolutely racist now and then. Don't you know how a plantation worked? Look Chicago, look at Detroit. Can you be proud of these Democrat run modern day plantations? I think it's outrageous. Chris B.

What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue.

That's funny, simply because the accused were Black you assume he would not have called for the death penalty had they been White? Exactly who is the racist here?

I have a bit of relevant info for you. Those that support the death penalty, yours truly included, don't care what skin color the criminal has. When it's time to go, it's time to go and I'd pull the switch regardless of skin color.
Chris B.

One would hope, however, that Trump (and you) would care about their innocence.

The irrelevant BS you're foisting about 60 yr old Dem history is just that -- irrelevant BS in this day and age.

The small office that Trump ran placed the letter C for colored on the applications submitted by black people, which was used to reject the applicants as a matter of policy. But if we call him racist, we get a hissy fit from right wing apologists. Tough luck I say.

__________________

To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

Can I point to this thread in the future when addressing claims that all white Americans are racist? Because if that's the case, then all white Trump supporters being racist follows automatically (as does all white Clinton supporters being racist, all white Obama supporters being racist, and so forth) and there's nothing really to discuss.

The Democrat party is absolutely racist now and then. Don't you know how a plantation worked? Look Chicago, look at Detroit. Can you be proud of these Democrat run modern day plantations? I think it's outrageous. Chris B.

"The Democrat party". Uh huh.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

Is there a point at which turning a blind eye to something stops someone being a good person ?

Sadly, yes. A person is only good when they do good.

A few days ago I was chatting to my brother and discovered that he is a Trump supporter. Tried (and failed) to rebut all the talking points he was regurgitating, and then I remembered that my brother is - a racist. I love my brother, but unfortunately in some respects he is not a good person.

Turn it around. Would it be fair to say that Clinton supporters didn't care about her email scandal? I can tell you that I cared, but that the alternative, a Trump presidency, was too horrible to make that concern a deciding factor.

So you chose the lesser of two evils. But the question is why did you consider one to be sufficiently less evil than the other?

For most democrats the answer is perfectly rational and obvious - racism easily 'trumps' a manufactured scandal in the evil stakes.

But not everyone thinks that way. Most people who hate Hillary don't do so because of her email server or any of the other made-up scandals republicans have tried to stick to her. Their real reasons are far more basic. For many it is a vague feeling of distrust and fear based purely on emotions - emotions that are tainted with racism and sexism. For others it is more overt - she threatens their freedom - to be racist, sexist, and generally selfish and mean.

So when the majority of Hillary haters had to make a decision it wasn't between two evils, but between 'evil' and something they saw as neutral or even positive. The reason they don't seem to care about Trump's racism etc. is that they really don't care. It's not a big deal to them because they don't think it is actually evil.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

Kinda like saying all Trump supporters are racists huh..Chris B.

__________________One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.

What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue.

Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? After NAFTA went into effect the auto makers left the Country. They went to Mexico. Why? Simple, free trade now meant they could make their products in Mexico, exploit cheap labor, then ship those same products back into the US and sell them to US consumers for a premium profit. They fired the Americans, and hired Mexicans. Now back to the unemployed auto workers left behind in Detroit. Most started out by using their unemployment insurance, until that ran out. Then they eventually signed up for food stamps and Government assistance. Any job they found was likely minimum wage and likely part time without benefits of any type. So now they get signed up for medicaid on the Governments tab. Since the only way they have left to make a living are their Government entitlements, certainly they vote for the Democrats, as they rally the low income communities pre-election. Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. If that's not racist I don't know what is. And Detroit is just one example of the impoverished class of Americans that were previously hard working and proud people that have been taken back in time to life on a plantation. Chris B.

__________________One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.

The topic title is, at least, a question (and the answer is "no", obviously).

Agree absolutely. Chris B.

__________________One could choose to be civil though and still disagree. For example, since I know Bigfoot does exist, I don't call others "idiot" just because they're uneducated on the subject and share a different view based on that lack of experience. Chris B.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

Originally Posted by uke2se

Which leaves us with the conclusion that Trump voters are either stupid or racist.

I'm confused. Is stereotyping a good thing or a bad thing now?

__________________"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

__________________All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

Lies that have been pointed out and recognized by others don't annoy me. I get annoyed when people deny those lies, however.

Says the author of the sunmaster14 system of re-scoring Trumps lies in order to upgrade various statements from Pants on Fire to Mostly False. "Good evening. It sure is great to be here in.... uh, York. I was just speaking to my old friend and your most famous son, Alvin York. (deplorables cheer for a pacifist who learnt him to kill) Thank you, thank you. And Alvin told me to keep up the good fight."

Every Other Fact Checker: Alvin York is long dead, so he couldn't have just spoken to him nor at any time in the last half-century. York is the name of the town, and Sgt. Alvin York isn't from there; he's from Tennessee.
Score: Pants on Fire.

Sunmaster14 Protek-Conserv Fact Checker: "Well, you can't say it wasn't a GOOD evening. That's subjective so true. And he was actually in York, and Alvin York was certainly famous. By volume, the words spoken are True or Mostly True with one insignificant teeny little part that's factually incorrect."
Score: Mostly True.

__________________Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

That's the funny thing. The Democrats go overboard to point a finger at Republicans for such things when the Democrat party is the root of racism and bigotry. Isn't that odd. There's a name for such things I believe it's called "projection" Chris B.

Originally Posted by phiwum

Sorry? What do you mean by this?

Root of racism and bigotry? Hardly. In the past, they were the party that was far more strongly associated with racism and bigotry, yes, though. These days, they are not, however. The Republican Party, on the other hand, has been trending a path in somewhat the opposite direction, though, since they decided to increasingly court Christian supremacy groups and anti-science groups.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Do you even know what NAFTA is and how it has affected working class Americans? Do you not know factory workers that have lost jobs because their company closed down and moved to another Country?

The Republican party Ideals are exactly the same today as they were when Lincoln ran.

Is that represented properly by putting explicit opposition to teaching critical thinking into their party platform, like Texas did? Is that represented properly by their attempts to get Creationism taught in science classrooms as if it were even arguably still in line with science, as some versions were in Lincoln's day?

So you chose the lesser of two evils. But the question is why did you consider one to be sufficiently less evil than the other?

For most democrats the answer is perfectly rational and obvious - racism easily 'trumps' a manufactured scandal in the evil stakes.

As a Democrat, I may not be most, then, given that the scandal that you referenced wasn't entirely manufactured. The actual actions that were taken on Hillary's side are rather concerning, after all, whether or not there was anything actually incriminating in the e-mails. Also, racism was a minor issue when it came to why I didn't want Trump more than I didn't want Hillary. Rather, things like how he was constantly claiming that the various elections were rigged, but only until he won, spurred more concern from me. His demagoguery was notably more of a concern for me. His unconstitutional campaign promises were much more of a concern to me. There were a number of things that I took issue with, but indications of racism and sexism barely registered compared to the actually important concerns.

Is that represented properly by putting explicit opposition to teaching critical thinking into their party platform, like Texas did? Is that represented properly by their attempts to get Creationism taught in science classrooms as if it were even arguably still in line with science, as some versions were in Lincoln's day?

Or their embrace of the alt-right (neo-nazi) movement, and their opposition to the voting rights act?

__________________All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

Turn it around. Would it be fair to say that Clinton supporters didn't care about her email scandal? I can tell you that I cared, but that the alternative, a Trump presidency, was too horrible to make that concern a deciding factor.

It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Do you even know what NAFTA is and how it has affected working class Americans? Do you not know factory workers that have lost jobs because their company closed down and moved to another Country?

Which has what to do with NAFTA? Those jobs moved because people in other country can do the same job for far less. NAFTA did not create that situation simple supply and demand did.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? After NAFTA went into effect the auto makers left the Country. They went to Mexico. Why? Simple, free trade now meant they could make their products in Mexico, exploit cheap labor, then ship those same products back into the US and sell them to US consumers for a premium profit. They fired the Americans, and hired Mexicans.

Again, NAFTA had nothing to do with this. Free trade existed before NAFTA and will exist after. If Mexico had been an industrialized nation in the 50's you can bet that GM and Ford would have relocated there sooner.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Now back to the unemployed auto workers left behind in Detroit. Most started out by using their unemployment insurance, until that ran out. Then they eventually signed up for food stamps and Government assistance. Any job they found was likely minimum wage and likely part time without benefits of any type. So now they get signed up for medicaid on the Governments tab. Since the only way they have left to make a living are their Government entitlements, certainly they vote for the Democrats, as they rally the low income communities pre-election. Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance.

Of course this overlooks that Liberals have proposed and tried to implement other solutions. Like retraining programs and making universities more affordable. Things that the Republicans have opposed at every turn.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive.

Except that they are not being oppressed. They are in a very unfortunate situation. One with few answers. The government cannot directly create jobs there and until the population gains new skills they will continue to not be very employable in a global economy.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

If that's not racist I don't know what is.

Well alrighty. I'll say that it isn't racist. Detroit was an economic time bomb. Too large a city built around one industry with too many workers that were all under skilled for other jobs. It was bound to be a disaster from its inception.

__________________

"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com

Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened?

What happened indeed?

US automotive manufacturing is doing pretty well and the top selling models are all pretty much made in the US even though they have foreign sounding names.

Of course it's not necessarily in Detroit anymore. It's Kentucky and Ohio and other places.

And of course modern car plants are just much less labour intensive than the old ones were. So to make the same number of vehicles just takes fewer people.

And of course modern car plants are just much less labour intensive than the old ones were. So to make the same number of vehicles just takes fewer people.

^ This

Even if Trump cuts off America's nose to spite its face and increases tariffs, reduces imports and forces companies to make things in the US (and damn the cost), it still won't require anything like the number of people it used to.

Heck, given that they'll have to use expensive US labour instead of cheap foreign labour, there's even greater incentive to automate, not least so that they can remain somewhat competitive on the global stage.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. If that's not racist I don't know what is.

It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured.

With due respect, the fact that Hillary violated rules by having her own email server, very likely to avoid FOIA requests, is troublesome for anyone who prefers transparency. That she seemed to prevaricate about the presence of classified information is also troublesome.

I think she would've been a decent president. I also think that her (more or less understandable) tendency for privacy was troubling, especially when it leads to apparent violations of rules. We might wonder whether transparency is appropriate for a Secretary of State, but that's another matter.

The email thing bothered me, not because a private server can't be secure or because the gov't does security better, but because it seemed intended to avoid transparency rules.

It's a strange world when having a husband who is a philanderer and alleged sexual predator is disqualifying but being a philanderer and proudly boasting about sexual assualts oneself is not

Whoever said it was disqualifying? What disqualifies Hillary is that she didn't win 270 electoral votes. There were many factors going into that, although I suspect the main one was that most people wanted a change.

Whoever said it was disqualifying? What disqualifies Hillary is that she didn't win 270 electoral votes. There were many factors going into that, although I suspect the main one was that most people wanted a change.

Most people?

__________________The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.