Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:47:17 -0700 (MST)
-------------- BEGIN bread-bakers.v103.n050 --------------
001 - Reggie Dwork - Wanting sugar-free bread
006 - Joanie001@aol.com - Re: My Mother's Bread (v103.n048.16)
007 - DRogers248@aol.com - Re: Rosemary bread request (v103.n049.19)
008 - Gonzo White - Clear Flour
014 - "Matt"
Subject: no digest Nov 22
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:46:28 -0800
There was no bread-bakers digest the weekend of Nov 22, so don't fret, you
didn't miss anything.
Reggie & Jeff
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.2 ---------------
From: Lobo
Subject: re: flax seed
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:50:54 -0700
I got this quote somewhere I can't remember, but sometimes I use whole
seeds anyway, just because I like seeds crunching in my teeth!
"Whole Flax seeds should never be used in bread. You add no nutrition to
your bread by using whole flax seed as they aren't digested when
eaten. Grind the seeds into meal. If you can't find them, use sesame seeds
or poppy seeds. Flax Seed meal is high in Omega-3 fatty acids."
This is a wonderful recipe and could be made into a loaf. I can't remember
where it came from either, could've been this list.
FLAX SEED LUNCHEON ROLLS
Crusty, nutty, (no nuts) bronze-crumbed. Molasses just to color, not to
flavor.
2 cups warm water
1 tablespoon instant yeast
2 tablespoons flax seed oil or canola oil
2 teaspoons toasted sesame seed oil
1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice
2 tablespoons honey
2 tablespoons molasses
1 tablespoon salt
2 tablespoons rye flour
1 egg
1/2 cup flax seeds
2 tablespoons sesame seeds
1 cup whole wheat flour
1/2 cup natural bran (used All-Bran)
3-4 cups white bread flour
Proof water and yeast. Whisk in oils, lemon juice, honey, molasses, salt,
rye flour, egg, flax seeds, sesame seeds, whole-wheat flour and natural
bran. Fold in 2 cups of white flour and blend a few minutes. Attach dough
hook and knead, adding remaining bread flour or as required, to make a
sticky but cohesive dough.
Let the dough rise until almost doubled, 45-60 minutes. Turn out and gently
deflate. Let dough rest, lightly covered with a towel, 15 minutes. Divide
into 16 portions and shape each into a ball.
Space rolls 2-3 inches apart on the greased baking sheet. Cover lightly.
Let rise 20-40 minutes or until almost doubled. Bake at 375 F for 18-20
minutes or until nicely browned all over.
Makes 16 small luncheon buns, suitable for serving with salad or a main
dish or 12 larger, sandwich rolls. (I made 16 and they're large enough for
hamburger buns-lobo)
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.3 ---------------
From: Lobo
Subject: re: Questions about expiration on yeast
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:45:37 -0700
Anne wrote:
>I just received an order of Nevada Gold yeast from King Arthur. This is
>the first time I have used this product. When the package arrived, it had
>a beginning date and an expiration date. There are only four more months
>until the package expires.
Ikeep my yeast in the refrigerator and have used it past expiration
dates. My friend used to freeze her sourdough starter. Why not try
keeping it in the freezer and see what happens?
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.4 ---------------
From: "rudyeb"
Subject: Baking Technology - Breadmaking Book wtd.
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:00:06 -0500
Does anyone have a copy of "Baking Technology - Breadmaking" that they
would be willing to part with cheap?
Thank you,
Rudy
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.5 ---------------
From:
Subject: Wanting sugar-free bread
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:05:26 -0600
Has anyone had recent success making bread using the sugar substitute
called Splenda? It measures cup per cup, just like sugar. A recipe that
is primarily made of wheat flour as opposed to white flour would be most
appreciated.
Thanks to you all for the fun and recipes we've shared this past year. And
especially to Reggie and Jeff for the hard work they do...and for putting
up with us! I hope you and your families all have a really wonderful
Thanksgiving. For no matter how difficult or pitiful our days here may
seem at times, we are still the most blessed people in the world, aren't
we? God has given us with sooooo much.
Having our first freeze of the year tonight, here in South Texas,
Jeanette in Yancey, TX
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.6 ---------------
From: Joanie001@aol.com
Subject: Re: My Mother's Bread (v103.n048.16)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:08:36 EST
Nice story, and how very true. Someday someone won't be able to make the
bread taste as good as yours. I guess it's as much the love in the
atmosphere that brings out the flavor as the technique.
Enjoy
Joanie
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.7 ---------------
From: DRogers248@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rosemary bread request (v103.n049.19)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:05:43 EST
Richard Boosey writes:
>Does anyone have a recipe using fresh rosemary (the plant is beside the
>kitchen door) and perhaps dried tomatoes that would make a hardy breadstick?
Richard, I search google for Rosemary bread and got many hits. This is a
good way to find recipes. The ones below were found this way. Hope it's a
start for you.
deb*
Fresh Rosemary Bread
This a wonderful herbed, cheese bread to serve with soup. Prep Time:
approx. 5 Minutes. Cook Time: approx. 3 Hours. Ready in: approx. 3 Hours 5
Minutes. Makes 1 - 1.5 pound loaf (12 servings). Printed from Allrecipes,
Submitted by Holly
1 (.25 ounce) package active dry yeast
3/4 cup whole wheat flour
1 1/4 cups bread flour
3/4 cup oat bran
1 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil
2 tablespoons honey
2 tablespoons chopped fresh rosemary
1/2 cup shredded mozzerella cheese
1/2 cup grated Parmesan cheese
1 teaspoon ground black pepper
1 teaspoon garlic salt
1/4 cup vital wheat gluten
1 1/8 cups warm water (110 F/45 C)
Directions
Place ingredients into the pan of the bread machine in the order suggested
by the manufacturer. Select Oat/French or White Bread cycle and the Light
setting for the crust. Start.
Rosemary Bread
This recipe comes to us courtesy of Brenda Hyde, editor of
, a fabulous website dedicated to making
life more memorable (a cause near and dear to my heart).
1 package (2 teaspoons) dry yeast
1 cup warm water
2 tablespoons chopped fresh rosemary leaves
1 teaspoon granulated sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1 1/4 cups whole wheat flour
1 3/4 cups all-purpose flour
olive oil
1 beaten egg (*NOTE)
Makes 1 Loaf
In a large bowl, add the yeast to the warm water, add sugar. Let stand
until foamy. This should take 5-10 minutes. Add the rosemary, salt, whole
wheat flour, and a cup of the regular flour. Stir with a wooden spoon until
it's mixed and forms a loose, sticky ball. Add the remaining flour, then
turn it out on to a floured surface and knead about 8 minutes.
Place in an oiled bowl, cover with plastic wrap, and let rise for an hour
or until it's doubled in volume. Punch down and knead it briefly to remove air.
Shape into a slightly flattened ball. Place it on a lightly oiled baking
sheet. Brush the loaf with oil. Let rise for 45 minutes or so, until it's
about doubled.
Brush it with the beaten egg. Bake at 375 F. until the top is browned,
about 45 minutes, or until it sounds hollow when tapped. Cool on a rack.
*NOTE: is about
beating eggs
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.8 ---------------
From: Gonzo White
Subject: another bread stick request
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 22:37:21 -0600
I read Richards post asking for a hearty bread stick recipe with
interest. I am looking for a good soft bread stick recipe,, preferably
using a ABM for mixing the dough.
Thanks,
Gonzo
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.9 ---------------
From: carolyn taylor
Subject: Re:Pain a l'Ancienne
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:58:00 -0800
Just wanted to say I tried the 80 percent hydration of just the flour
refrigerated overnight and the yeast and salt added the next AM. Sat for
about 5 - 6 hours on the counter with a damp bowl inverted over it, stretch
and fold every half hour or so. Handled with very wet hands. It came out
great! I baked it as ciabatta shape and it's the first time I've been
really satisfied with crust, holes, texture, everything. I can't remember
who suggested this but I sure am grateful.
Carolyn
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.10 ---------------
From: "Brown, Diane"
Subject: Re: kitchenaid motors
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:10:03 -0600
>From: Mary Stackhouse
>Subject: viking stand mixers
>Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:19:50 -0500
>
>The repair people told me that the new Kitchenaid mixers had a different
>kind of motor that in their opinion wasn't very good. The motors are
>stated to have a higher wattage, but they are smaller and overheat
>quicker. They told me that the older models were much better and that the
>new models were basically garbage.
Anyone know in what model year the great motor switch occurred?
Just curious....my 1980-something kitchenaid has never been to the shop....
--diane brown in st. louis
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.11 ---------------
From: Blanche007@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oven spring (v103.n049.8)
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:14:39 EST
For Howard Larson: my best guess is that the culprit causing the lack of
oven spring in your whole wheat bread is the quick rise yeast you are
using. Try it with regular active dry yeast and see if that makes a
difference.
Lora Brody
www.lorabrody.com
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.12 ---------------
From: "Nancy Silver"
Subject: Viking Mixers
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:48:45 -0500
I have no personal experience with Viking Mixers, but I do have a Viking
oven and would never again own a Viking product. My oven, only about two
years old had a burned out element that to 4 months or so to resolve. My
difficulty was in getting authorized service. And I live in a major
metropolitan area where there are a lack of authorized Viking repair
persons. Even the corporate office was difficult and unhelpful. I think
they spend allot of money hyping their product and making it look
"professional" and very little on quality. Since you're responsible for
feeding a lot of people you need to be very certain there are authorized
repair centers near you who will work on the item in a timely manner.
I had the same problem as you and many other people who bought a newer
Kitchenaid. I still have the one I bought 22 years ago and it's going
strong, but I bought an additional one about 6 years ago and the motor
burned out the first day I used it. Relative to the cost of the thing the
repair was expensive.
These days I use a DLC-X plus Cuisinart for bread dough so I can't
recommend a mixer specifically but I will add that allot of people rave
about the Bosch. The Pleasant Hill Grain Company (I'm just a customer - no
affiliation) from who I purchased my pressure cooker and immersion blender
(1-800-321-1073 - pleasanthillgrain.com) also features the Bosch. I'm sure
if you gave them a call they'd be happy answer any questions you might have
about these mixers. Their website also has a lot of detailed info.
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.13 ---------------
From:
Subject: Clear Flour
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:48:46 -0500
In response to Ed's question concerning clear flour several answers suggest
that it is of higher gluten content than whole wheat flour from which the
bran has been sifted out.
But according to George Greenstein in his "Secrets of A Jewish Baker" and I
quote from the book. First Clear or Clear Flour often refered to as common
flour , is the least refined of the bread flours. Lower in gluten content
and darker in color than other flours, it is used primarily in rye breads.
The common flour keeps the desired dark color of the rye while providing
enough gluten for the bread to rise. The lower protein content allows for
the dense texture, which makes it a good sandwich bread and gives it the
chewy bite sought for in rye bread. Use of common flour is one of the
secrets of making real Jewish rye bread. End of quote. He suggest trying
your local bakery, which is where I got my supply of clear flour. Hope this
helps in making a real Jewish of Deli rye bread.
Jess
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.14 ---------------
From: "Matt"
Subject: Re: Whole Wheat--No Oven Spring
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:24:25 -0500
Howard Larson Wrote:
"I have a problem getting oven spring for my whole wheat loaves."
Matt responds with:
I think your problem with your oven spring is your use of Quick Yeast. This
yeast was designed for only one rise I believe. I would mix the dough, let
relax then make it up and put in pans and allow to proof. Basically your
combining your fermentation and your proof times at once in the pan.
I would strongly recommend that you keep the method that you are using and
go to a regular yeast.
I think that your problem will be solved either way.
Regards,
Matt
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.15 ---------------
From: "Matt"
Subject: Re: Why wheat gluten?
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:39:46 -0500
>I wonder if anyone can tell me what wheat gluten contributes to a bread
>dough. I visited Kenyon's Grist Mill and bought some different flours and
>wheat gluten. How do I use it?
>
>Thanks,
>Rose
Hello Rose,
The type of baking that we do at the bakery we have no need to use wheat
gluten. However a while ago we were contracted to make a whole wheat bread
for a restaurant chain and as it was a "no time dough" and 100 % whole
wheat, to make the bread rise correctly the wheat gluten was added I
believe to artificially create what a longer fermentation period does
during that period. Namely to help the protein in the flour become more
pliable yet remain strong. Also, since WW flour has bran in it that cuts
the gluten strands, adding wheat gluten will help to strengthen the dough
to allow the dough to rise to an acceptable volume.
I have forgotten the recipe, but if you use it in a recipe that uses a
regular or long fermentation period add a little to your mix, I would look
up a recipe online to use at a starting point.
I have found that if you match the right flour to the recipe and method
that you won't need wheat gluten. But I am a purist at heart.
Best Regards,
Matt
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.16 ---------------
From: "Barda"
Subject: Crushed Flaxseed in Wheat Bread...
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:54:03 -0600
Wrote:
>Susan Brigden Another flaxseed question
>Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:49:56 -0500
>
>I am interested in trying to add ground flaxseed to bread Does anyone have
>a recipe...or experience...adding ground flaxseed to a regular white bread
>recipe?
Susan, I've been using ground flaxseed in my machine breads for years with
no difficulty. I grind the flaxseed in an electric coffee grinder.
Chellie Barda's Wheat and Flax Bread:
1/2 Cup Oatmeal
1 7/8 Cups Buttermilk (to 2 cups)
2 Tbsp Olive oil
3 Tbsp Honey
1 tsp Salt
3 Cups Wheat flour.
Included as part of this 3 cup amount are:
a.. 2 Tbsp Ground Flaxseed
b.. 2 Tbsp Wheat Bran
(in other words, take out 4 Tbsp. of wheat flour and add the flax and bran)
1 Cup Bread flour
3 Tbsp Vital Wheat Gluten
2 1/2 tsp Dry yeast
Place all ingredients in bread pan, using least amount of liquid listed in
the recipe (1 7/8 cups). Set at Medium Crust, Whole Wheat Cycle. Press Start.
Watch dough as it kneads. After 5 or 10 minutes, if it seems dry and
stiff, or if your machine sounds like it's straining, add more buttermilk
(1 Tbsp at a time) until the dough forms a soft, pliable ball that is tacky
to the touch.
After the baking cycle ends, remove bread from pan and place on rack to
cool. Cool at least one hour before slicing.
Enjoy!
Chellie Barda
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.17 ---------------
From: "Barda"
Subject: Need a recipe for Irish Brown Bread or Wheaten (Wheeten?)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:10:35 -0600
Chellie and I just returned from a 12 day holiday in Ireland. A wonderful
country of delightful people and great food.
We enjoyed Irish brown bread with breakfast every morning - and every other
meal. Anyone have a recipe for it?
BTW: Heard a newscaster use the term "Bone-Idle Lazy" one evening. I
thought of John and had to chuckle.
Joe Barda
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.18 ---------------
From: Roxanne Rieske
Subject: Re: clear or patent?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:25:58 -0700
I wrote to Steven Leof :
*****************************************************
There is very little difference between clear or patent. The difference is
so marginal that either can be used in place of the other. In fact, in some
circles either term is used to mean the same product. Sifting whole wheat
flour made from winter wheat a few times will give you patent flour. Trust
me, it works just fine for rye breads.
Sifting lowers the ash content of the flour as you are removing the part of
the flour that contributes to its mineral content. (Ash is simply a
measurement of flour's mineral composition--which is mostly bran and germ).
*****************************************************
Steven Leof wrote back:
*****************************************************
Thanks for your note Roxanne. But clear and patent flour have different
specs. Clear flour usually has an ash content of approximately 0.75
percent whereas patent flour is extra white, low-ash flour. Surely the
sifting you refer to would result in flour approximating clear flour rather
than patent flour which would require much more effort.
*****************************************************
I wrote to Steven:
*****************************************************
Doing some research I found out that sifting whole wheat flour might be
your best alternative for clear flour. There is no European equivalant for
clear, which is a US wheat product. However, I would go out and find a
Jewish bakery in your area and ask what they use in their rye breads. And
you might be able to buy it from them. My guess is that they blend 2 or 3
different flours together to get the lift and texture they need.
Also, there's 3 different grades of clear flour that I could find at
http://www.theartisan.net/flour_descriptions_and_definitions.htm and the
sifting whole wheat flour technique closely resembles what's called first
clear flour (fancy clear is the "purest form").
*****************************************************
Steven wrote back:
*****************************************************
As far as I can tell Jewish Bakeries in London don't use clear flour,
indeed the few I've approached don't know what it is. I wasn't altogether
surprised at this as the rye breads available here pale in comparison to
those made in New York and other places in America. Hence my search for the
spec for first clear which I've taken to a couple of mills; sifting flour
seems too much like hard work....
BTW is clear flour used for anything other than NY style rye?
*****************************************************
I wrote:
*****************************************************
As far as I know it's not used for anything else. In all the bakeries I've
worked in, it's only been used for rye or other grain breads. But if we ran
out of it (which happened occasionally), we would use high gluten flour
with vital wheat gluten added. I never noticed a difference in the rise or
texture of the breads. So that might be an option to try.
*****************************************************
Roxanne
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.19 ---------------
From: "John Chamberlain"
Subject: obscure (?) italian rolls...
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:45:03 -0500
Hi all---great list; I'm glad I happened onto it!
Question: I'm looking for a recipe for a roll I used to have with just
about every meal while studying in Rome. It's a hollow roll...the ones we
had tended to have a pretty stout crust. At the time, it never occurred to
any of us to ask for a working recipe...and, frankly, we never learned the
proper name---we called them "moonrocks".
After much research, the best reference I've been able to come up with is
one posting to a bakery forum
, which identifies the
rolls as either "botticini" or "rosetti", due to a rose pattern die-stamped
into the top of the roll. (we never thought of it as a rose, per se, but it
makes sense
The posting at the link above lists the following as information gotten
from a Roman baker:
"Dough - 800 gm soft (all purpose) flour, 200gm hard (bread) flour, 10 gm
salt, 10 gm yeast". He said 500 ml water, but this seems too little for the
soft dough.
The characterstic rose shape is made by stamping a piece of risen dough
with a special die which he said can be purchased for about $50. We didn't
see any in the stores.
Baking: The oven temperature is 300C which is 575F. Baking time is 12 to 13
minutes. The atmosphere in the oven should be very humid. You can achieve
this by putting trays of water on the bottom shelf of the oven.
The baker said that the more bread that you bake at one time, the better it
is and no other special technique was used to get the hollow center.
I'm looking forward to experimenting with this, but I'd love to find some
more information before I get too far in...and a little validation that I'm
not completely crazy wouldn't hurt, too...as I recall, these rolls were
*all over the place* in Rome...
Anyone have any familiarity with these?
Side note: when I left Rome, I took one of these rolls with me...they
really were an integral part of our daily life on campus...I figured that
I'd sink it into a block of lucite and make a paperweight out of it. I
never got around to it...that roll has sat, in an unsealed sandwich bag,
for 11 years now. The crust has chipped a bit---which, considering that
it's been packed up and moved 8 times over those 11 years, is to be
expected, I'd think. But, other than that, it looks exactly the same. (so,
if anyone wants to see a photo, I'm sure I could manage it!)
Thanks for any help you can offer!
John Chamberlain
john@mockturtlesoup.com
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.20 ---------------
From: "David Rosenthal"
Subject: Another flaxseed question
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:18:38 +0200
Susan Brigden wrote:
>I am interested in trying to add ground flaxseed to bread, but my husband
>does not like whole wheat type bread. Does anyone have a recipe...or
>experience...adding ground flaxseed to a regular white bread recipe (ok, I
>can sneak a little bit of whole wheat in and he won't notice!).
Hi Susan
I have just joined this list and the following response might be old hat...
The Flax Council of Canada gives some useful guidelines in their website e.g.
"Use flaxseed at a 3 to 1 ratio to the shortening being replaced"
and
"Milled flaxseed may replace 10 to 15 per cent of the flour used in yeast
bread preparations. Increase the yeast added by 25 per cent to maintain the
same proof time, texture and consistency"
I found their web site interesting and informative. Their URL is:
http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/flaxpd6.htm
Best wishes
David Rosenthal
==
Download ringtones, logos and picture messages at Ananzi Mobile Fun.
http://www.ananzi.co.za/cgi-bin/goto.pl?mobile
--------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v103.n050.21 ---------------
From: Reggie Dwork
Subject: Homemade Cooking Spray
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:01:48 -0800
I don't know if this works (probably would) ... but here is a tip that
might be worth trying.
KITCHEN TIP
Homemade Cooking Spray
Instead of "greasing and flouring" pans, use this homemade baker's
magic: Beat until smooth 1/2 cup each vegetable oil, room-temperature
vegetable shortening and all-purpose flour. Refrigerate in an airtight
container for up to 6 months and use as necessary to coat muffin tins, cake
and bread pans, etc.
PS: Here in the US one can buy aerosol cans containing a mixture like this,
hence the name "cooking spray".
PPS: To keep your fingers and brushes clean, Lobo
suggests:
>Wrap a piece of wax paper around your fingers to apply the pan coating.
Reggie
--------------- END bread-bakers.v103.n050 ---------------
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All Rights Reserved