NRT and Quit Meters

I received an email question from a newer member who asked about how to set a quit meter considering she had started using nicotine patches five days before actually joining up at Freedom. She had not smoked 120 cigarettes in that time period and she did not feel she wanted to reset her quit meter for it would not accurately reflect how many cigarettes she had not smoked nor how much money she had saved. She also seemed to feel that because she had suffered so much those first five days that they must have to count for something, or that her whole quit was invalid because we seemed to act as if we felt tha the first five days somehow did not count.

I tried to email her back a reply but her email box was full and the message got kicked back to me. So I am posting the response here for in fact the message is important for other people who may have had a similar experience of finding Freedom after they had already had an NRT quit going.

Here is the response I had written:

A high percentage of people I run through clinics have actually tried NRT products in the past-actually over 85% of people who went through my clinics last year had tried NRT products and have now basically written off the experience as a waste of time. They don't try to hang on to past failures but rather now are focused on maintaining current and future success.

I think most people at Freedom are here now too because they are also of the mindset that the day they quit using nicotine is the day they stopped using nicotine. As far as you thinking now that the first few days of using patches is now making your whole quit invalid-your ten-day quit is perfectly valid. The first five days though you just transferred how you delivered nicotine. I think you are somehow working with the idea that the first five days have to be valid and important to your quit because you suffered so much during them. Suffering is not the benchmark that makes a quit valid-getting off nicotine is what makes breaking the addiction valid. People suffocating with emphysema are suffering plenty from cigarettes but if they are still smoking I don't think you would say that the suffering is a good thing or some kind of great accomplishment.

The money saved issue is pretty much a moot point too-you likely spent more on the patches than cigarettes would have cost you-especially considering you probably spent close to $50 for the box of patches and only used a few. So to say you saved money by that purchase is really misleading too.

As far as cigarettes not smoked in the meters, I think our group mindset is not really cigarettes not smoked as much as it is nicotine not used. Cigarettes are just the unit of measure for nicotine. To most of our members counting the time that a patch was used would be like an alcoholic who used to drink whisky exclusively now saying they successfully gave up drinking because all they have daily now is scotch. Alcohol is alcohol and nicotine is nicotine.

Our board is unique. Almost no other site on the Internet would agree with this stand and will gladly welcome you in and allow you to use whatever numbers you want. But people are here because they are done playing games like trying to make themselves feel better about their past ways of maintaining nicotine addiction and are now trying to make themselves actually get healthier by actually taking control of their addiction. I hope you do the same.

If you can come to grip with the concept of measuring from the day you stopped the patch you will likely be happy and successful here, but if this concept is too much of a stumbling block you will likely find yourself happier elsewhere. While you may be happier elsewhere, I am not so sure you are going to be as successful elsewhere-but the choice of what groups fits you best has got to be yours.

One last point, the 120 cigarettes difference is not going to seem important when the number of cigarettes not smoked read 10,000 or 50,000 or 100,000, and maybe more. Those numbers will be real one day if you always remember from now on that to stay smoke free simply requires always staying committed to never take another puff!

The only exceptions to the above are: (1) those who have used NRT or e-cigarettes for at least 6 months, and now realize that NRT or the e-cigarette simply transferred their delivery system for nicotine, and who are now quitting NRT or e-cigarettes cold turkey

It is important to note that as far as for quit meters--We measure cessation not from the date that you changed your method of nicotine delivery but from when all delivery ended.

I pulled a string earlier from a person who wrote her first post at Freedom saying she had recently relapsed and now asking if she should reset her quit meter. Boy did she pick the wrong group of quitters to ask that question. I thought I better bring this one up in case anyone else ever faces a similar dilemma.

For the record, it is said often at most sites that whether or not you reset your quitmeter is up to you. We agree--if you relapse it is up to you whether or not you reset your quit meter. If you want to fool yourself and try to fool the rest of the world that you are successfully smoke free go right on ahead. But don't waste Freedom's time with such foolishness. Post your relapse and your message will be gone in a flash along with your membership.

Also, we hope everyone has read our membership application below. Post 10 in it addresses how important actually reading at our site is before applying to avoid any confusing and awkward situations such as this.

Yup, I don't even look at my quit meter any more. At this point, I'm counting months, and I know that on September 5, it'll be 8. Until then, it's usually too much hassle to bother with exact days, and I just type some form of "more than 7 months" when posting stats.

I terms of gaining freedom from addiction, you'd actually (not that I'm recommending this; I'm not) be better off rolling up oregano in cigarette paper, and smoking it, than you would be using a different nicotine delivery device. Nobody here is addicted to smoking stuff. For that reason, none of us uses rolled oregano as a crutch -- "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that kick", and oregano doesn't.

A heroin addict doesn't celebrate switching from the pipe to the needle. Similarly, in terms of addiction, he'd be better off injecting glucose solution than continuing to use heroin in a different form.

I still occassionally find nicotine gum around the house, and I throw it out, because in terms of my freedom, that gum is as dangerous as a cigarette. If I picked up a piece of nicotine gum, did the requisite 15 chews until I got the tingly flavor, and pressed it as hard as I could against my gum, actually spreading the gum out over my entire gum to give it more surface area to deliver more nicotine (as I used to do when I tried the gum), I'd be right back to square one. My addiction would be reestablished just as quickly as if I enhaled off a lit Marlboro. And 7 + months would be flushed down the toilet.

Don't worry so much about stats. Remember, as far as our recovery is concerned, there's only one stat that matters.... TODAY. Keep yourself free for another today, and those stats will take care of themselves.

Boy, I remember how motivating it was to watch the minutes and hours and days roll off my quit meter! Those first days and weeks, I needed every indication that I was progressing through the rough days I was having. So, I know it can be disappointing to appear to lose ground statistically speaking.

But as Joel so rightly points out, an alcoholic doesn't get to count days s/he only had beer instead of whisky. We nicotine addicts don't get to count the day we had our last cigarette if we keep chewing nicotine gum or wearing the patch ...

Please don't take it personally or be disappointed or be angry with us or yourself. You just didn't understand this bit about nicotine addiction yet ... now you do! This is a good thing!

It's true that before long in your quit, the number of cigarettes you haven't smoked will become academic. You won't keenly be aware of each one anymore. For me, the number I "haven't smoked" is an intangible thing now, except that I know if I hadn't quit I'd have smoked that many or more.

I've got to agree with the policy - being a former NRT user. I don't think I ever truly understood the addictive nature of nicotine until I had entirly eliminated its use.

I had used the patches, took it off, smoked. As long as I was still using nicotine - I was feeding my junkie mind. Eventually, after using patches and lighting up here and there, and reading a lot of information here at Freedom, I decided to go cold turkey. I got sick. really sick! My mind and body had become accustomed to the CONSTANT LEVEL OF NICOTINE in my system. At least when I was smoking I was only getting the nicotine feed when I lit up.

I am an addict. No matter how I feed my addiction - I am an addict.Recovering or Active - I am an addict.

I did not begin my road to recovery until I quit using my drug of choice.

I see we have a few people who found us after starting out with NRT quits. I will bring up a few articles addressing NRT usage--we just want to make it clear that this quit is different because by going cold turkey the person quitting is actually getting nicotine out of his or her system system and will soon be totally out of withdrawal. Then to avoid ever facing withdrawal again is as simple as always remembering to never take another puff!

This post represents an extremely important concept that goes to the very core of chemical dependency upon nicotine and what this forum is all about. It's fantastic when a person spares their lungs by stopping sucking in the 4,000+ chemicals present in every burning cigarette, and that fact is probably worthy of some degree of celebraton in and of itself, but if they did so by turning to chewing tobacco, or by chewing nicotine gum, or any other source in order to obtain their nicotine, what have they really quit?

It's the same with substantially cutting down on smoking and/or nicotine intake. It may be cheaper but the addict is still feeding and fueling a chemical need. Nicotine water and 27 flavors of nicotine suckers are now being marketed in some countries around the world. To say I quit smoking nicotine and started suckering, watering, or chewing it, may be quitting to some but it's not what we celebrate here at Freedom - Freedom from Nicotine!

As we've said many times, if MSN would have allowed us to change our name to Freedom from Nicotine we would have done so long ago!

I am new here and also had to reset my quit meter recently resulting in a loss of a day and a half. Similar to the person above I had used nicotine at the beginning of my quit and so my days without a cigarette are actually 2 days more than my meter now shows. It was tough "losing" those two days because I had only used a very small amount of gum (5pc's one day, then 2 pc's the next) but using is using and so my quit officially began when I quit the gum. As you mentioned Joel, in the long run those first days totals won't mean diddly but boy did it ever sting to lose them so early on. Anyway, I feel better knowing I'm honest with my "actual" quit date and time now and speaking of which my meter now reads...

When I quit originally on 9/15/2002....I used the patch. On 9/20/2002 I woke up and realized what I really needed to quit was nicotine....any and all delivery methods. I have not introduced nicotine into my body since not applying that patch on the morning of the 20th. I reset my meter...then after the appropriate 72 hour time....I joined here. I had no problem resetting my meter to 9/20......I would have had a problem leaving it at 9/15. I really don't pay too much attention to how many cigarettes not smoked......I am really looking at the time nicotine free....and sometimes I really forget that too....I am not counting the minutes or even the days anymore. I have 2 months nicotine free...and I am very happy about that.
Joyce

I am not totally familiar with the Quitmeters in use out there, and this morining I saw an email from one of our newer members pointing out that one of the Quitmeters out there actually had some provision for accounting for slips.

I am going to attach a short comment I made when I first put up this string addressing this issue.

I pulled a string earlier from a person who wrote her first post at Freedom saying she had recently relapsed and now asking if she should reset her quit meter. Boy did she pick the wrong group of quitters to ask that question. I thought I better bring this one up in case anyone else ever faces a similar dilemma.For the record, it is said often at most sites that whether or not you reset your quitmeter is up to you. We agree--if you relapse it is up to you whether or not you reset your quit meter. If you want to fool yourself and try to fool the rest of the world that you are successfully smoke free go right on ahead. But don't waste Freedom's time with such foolishness. Post your relapse and your message will be gone in a flash along with your membership.

Lying to yourself or others will not secure your quit. Constantly reminding yourself of the truth will though. The truth is that the only way that you can guarantee that you will always be able to stay smoke free is to always remember to never take another puff! Joel

Well, I couldn't afford the patch or nicotine gum. But I sure did still want some nicotine to make the quitting process easier. I "quit" two and a half weeks before my February 13th quit, but I still bummed a smoke now and then, and the last smoke I had was a butt from my friend's ashtray. I had a quit meter in my head and was counting the days as if I hadn't smoked, because one little butt didn't count. I even remember emailing Joel about my great quit and how happy I was about his library.

Then I did a bunch of reading and went through incredulity, irritation, anger, and then finally a lightbulb. I hadn't quit at all. Whether you're smoking used butts or putting a patch on your butt, you still haven't quit using nicotine and you still haven't broken your active addiction. NRT is just one more way of prolonging denial of the truth.

Anyway, the quit meter is just icing on the cake of the real celebration--that you made the right decision, and that you aren't puffing.

I see that this one has not been brought up in almost three months now. That is a good sign that our members are all pretty much on the same page now, recognizing that they are here specifically because they finally want to be free from being controlled by nicotine. Its great to want to quit to extend your life but breaking free of nicotine can bring out more more benefits than just living longer. It can improve your overall quality of life that having to maintain an active addiction complicates in many ways. The way to really be free is to permanently end all deliver of all nicotine replacement products and as far the smoked form of tobacco goes, just always remembering to never take another puff!

It's Freedom's position, Rllothringer, that when you boil all the magic cures down and quitting aids to the very basics there is only one way on earth for those dependent upon nicotine to begin adjusting to living without it.

We know that the American Cancer Society's Cancer Facts 2003 report again asserts that that 91.2% of all successful long-term quitters quit entirely on their on own without hypnosis, herbs, acupuncture, extra vitimans, bupropion (Wellbutrin/ Zyban), any nicotine weaning products , or any formal programs such as ours.

They did it entirely on their own, most after a few tries during which they began to appreciate the power of the chemical they were dealing with. It's what this forum is about, teaching their method and the true power of one puff of nicotine.

Statistically I could combine peanut butter and acorns, market it as a new quitting aid and expect to generate a 10% midyear success rate and a 5% one year success rate - the historic on-your-own quitting rates. I could then take testimonials from the 10% at midyear and use them to sell my new quitting technique to thousands. If standing alone a product or program does not increase long-term quitting rates above normal on-your-own rates, is it not a fraud upon smokers to lead them to believe it does?

There is absolutely nothing any quitter needs to succeed but dreams and desires, something I don't think they'll find in a product or pill. In the end, regardless of method, it all boils down to robust reasons fueling patient desire to not use nicotine today , to Never Take Another Puff! John

If you want to fool yourself and try to fool the rest of the world that you are successfully smoke free or nicotine free for any specific length of time go right on ahead. But don't waste Freedom's time with such nonsense. Post about a relapse and an adjusted quitmeter and your message will be gone in a flash along with your membership.For the record, the only quitmeter measurement date that is valid at Freedom is the very last date you administered nicotine.

I wondered about it myself--having stopped smoking 3 weeks before I "got it" and ripped off that patch. When you stop ingesting nicotine, you're free! I don't know about the other many thousands of chemicals in the cigarettes--but you just can't get free until the addictive agent is metabolized out.

I see that this one has not been brought up in almost three months now. That is a good sign that our members are all pretty much on the same page now, recognizing that they are here specifically because they finally want to be free from being controlled by nicotine. Its great to want to quit to extend your life but breaking free of nicotine can bring out more more benefits than just living longer. It can improve your overall quality of life that having to maintain an active addiction complicates in many ways. The way to really be free is to permanently end all deliver of all nicotine replacement products and as far the smoked form of tobacco goes, just always remembering to never take another puff!

Joel

Also from above. Luckily we don't have to deal with these kind of incident anymore:

I pulled a string earlier from a person who wrote her first post at Freedom saying she had recently relapsed and now asking if she should reset her quit meter. Boy did she pick the wrong group of quitters to ask that question. I thought I better bring this one up in case anyone else ever faces a similar dilemma.

For the record, it is said often at most sites that whether or not you reset your quitmeter is up to you. We agree--if you relapse it is up to you whether or not you reset your quit meter. If you want to fool yourself and try to fool the rest of the world that you are successfully smoke free go right on ahead. But don't waste Freedom's time with such foolishness. Post your relapse and your message will be gone in a flash along with your membership.

Lying to yourself or others will not secure your quit. Constantly reminding yourself of the truth will though. The truth is that the only way that you can guarantee that you will always be able to stay smoke free is to always remember to never take another puff!

We always have a few people who found us after starting out with NRT quits or who had previous quits where they utilized NRTs. We just want to make it clear that this quit is different because by going cold turkey the person quitting is actually getting nicotine out of his or her system system and will soon be totally out of withdrawal. Then to avoid ever facing withdrawal again is as simple as always remembering to never take another puff!
Joel

For the record, the only quitmeter measurement date that is valid at Freedom is the very last date you administered nicotine.

The text below from the string Reading at other quit smoking sites really explains why we want our members reporting the time that they are actually off nicotine rather than just off smoking.

For our members and readers who also read or participate at other quit smoking sites

We have members and readers here at Freedom who also read or participate at other online support sites. Recently one of our members posed a question at the board as to why a specific member at another site was still having such a hard time even though the person was off smoking for several months. Actually, we took the post off the board at Freedom because it specifically copied and pasted the post from the member at the other site and we do not allow posts from other sites at our board without prior permission of our managers.

The question though touches on a few important concepts that would be beneficial for us to address for people who do read at other sites. There are some real limitations to reported quit times at most other boards because quit meters at other sites do not often reflect how long the person is actually off nicotine. Some people may still be on NRT or have just very recently got off the nicotine product even though their meters may show a much longer "quit" time.

Then there are the constant discussions that go on at other sites as to whether people should reset their quit meters if they only have a few cigarettes, or one cigarette, or a puff. The debate of what is a slip and what is a relapse is standard and daily fare at most sites. When it comes down to it you just don't know the accuracy of quit time periods from anyone at most sites by simply reading their quit meters.

We have a string at Freedom titled Tell a newbie how many seconds a day you still want a cigarette . This is an extremely important string. If you go back and read through the hundreds of responses from people who are off for weeks, months, or even years and you will get a real appreciation of just how infrequent smoking thoughts really are for people who totally break free from nicotine. If you were to pose the exact same question at other sites that have the limitations of variable interpretations of what it means to be truly quit you would likely see many different answers and a wide variety of responses to this very same question.

The problem of defining what is really being quit can even pose problems to people who are not using any form of NRT or had any "slips" (relapses), for by reading the comments of other people who are "off smoking" for days, weeks, months or years and who are still complaining of this symptom and that craving can set up the expectation that quitting is really a long drawn out battle. This sets the stage for either a self-fulfilling prophecy situation or for easily blaming everything that goes wrong in an ex-smoker's life on the fact that he or she had quit smoking.

If you are you feeling stressed on a particular day weeks into your quit or having a specific physical symptom-it must be because you quit smoking. After all, look at those other people who are feeling stressed or having the same physical symptom the same day who have been off for just as long. We on the other hand try to insure that our readers recognize that if they are feeling stress or are having a physical symptom it is probably because they are just facing one or more stressful situations or are having symptoms to a problem that they had better find the real underlying reason for the cause. The string Life goes on without smoking explores this issue.

Other sites often lack a very thorough educational component helping people to understand important concepts inspiring people to quit or reinforcing their resolve to stay off. We have four major components built into the sites of www.whyquit.com and Freedom. We try to give our readers the understanding of why they smoke, why they should stop, how to stop, and most importantly, how to stay free from not only smoking but from the control of nicotine. The combination of having all of this information and being truly nicotine free gives our readers a real edge in sustaining their quits and of helping them to have a healthier and happier outlook on their life as a non-smoker. We help them to develop a more positive attitude and this will often minimize the emotional adjustment period people can experience when quitting. We also help them to see early on that they are not depriving themselves of a cigarette as opposed to ridding themselves of smoking. We in essence help to speed up the emotional recovery process for many of our readers.

I sometimes worry about our members participating at other sites for the conventional wisdom advice and different philosophies taught can sometimes sidetrack them in their progress. In a way though I think it can also be helpful for some to read at other sites too as long as they read at these sites with an educated and critical eye. Our members will often see people having an extended hard time and may very well be able to recognize just why these other people are in a perpetual emotional or physical withdrawal state and end up feeling more grateful and protective of their own quits. Our members will also see relapses on a regular basis and realize just how important it is to do everything in their power to make this quit stick.

By the way, we have guidelines as to how to behave as a Freedom member when at other sites. I am going to copy comments we have inMissionstring that talks about how we don't want our members stirring up debates at other sites with our materials and philosophies. What we are doing here at Freedom is controversial and we do not believe in stirring up controversies at other sites.

Also I am going to attach a few other links here that I think would be good for people who participate at other sites to read. Again, if you do read at other sites work at developing a critical eye and recognize what you are reading may not be what the person is writing. You may be reading "nicotine free," when the writer was saying "smoke free" or even "smoke free except for that one puff here and there that didn't really count."

Again, read these additional links below, They will help to prepare you to read anywhere and to recognize the real advantage you have in understanding just why you quit and why you are still totally convinced that you want to stick to your personal commitment to never take another puff.