SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 29, 2013, 14:19:It is kind of hard to find anything to complain about with Sony.

Yep they did pretty much what any video game hobbyist would have dreamed up. I guess we should say great job, but it also is master of the obvious stuff if you pay attention. For Sony this is a huge turn of events, where I made fun of them, now they get it, welcome.

I am hoping this means that this point forward everything will be backwards compatible. That there will be incremental upgrades instead of generational releases. Why not in two years put in a faster BPU/GPU, etc? No need to start anything over, these are closed PC's.

This is how Apple makes their billions, incremental HW improvements, just have to sell at a profit. They could make a $1000 version of the PS4 at release and enough would buy, not saying they should, but it's to my point.

Say the mass market is $400 and below. But in a year make a $750 dollar version PS4.1 that is just stronger, a year after that put the PS4.1 at $400 and introduce another stronger PS4.2 at $750. To say that doesn't work is to ignore what Apple has done.

This is a terri-bad idea that deserves to be shot behind the woodshed before it bites another animal or human and spreads the derp.

Instead of backwards compatibility you now have forwards compatibility issues. AAA dev decides to only publish for PS4.2 while everyone else is publishing PS4.1. If you don't have 700 dollars to spend every year or two you're fucked. Or even worse, you keep selling revisions but one sells *really* well and to maximize sales developers stick with that revision's system requirements and suddenly nobody is using all the new power and toys and sticking with the old revision and you have DirectX 9/Windows XP all over again, with dead hardware revision cycles.

No, 700 dollar yearly or every-two-year lifespans of hardware is a terrible idea. With iDevices, at least you can make phone calls, listen to music, etc... if your device is too old to make use of all the latest apps.

Yup.Part of the appeal of consoles is that you buy it and that's it. Plug it in and you're good to go for years.

The whole constant upgrade thing is part of what pushed people from PCs in the first place. There's a reason why Blues has a fraction of the userbase that console-based sites do - those of us that enjoy screwing around with our systems and knowing what's in them are a minority.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 29, 2013, 14:19:It is kind of hard to find anything to complain about with Sony.

Yep they did pretty much what any video game hobbyist would have dreamed up. I guess we should say great job, but it also is master of the obvious stuff if you pay attention. For Sony this is a huge turn of events, where I made fun of them, now they get it, welcome.

I am hoping this means that this point forward everything will be backwards compatible. That there will be incremental upgrades instead of generational releases. Why not in two years put in a faster BPU/GPU, etc? No need to start anything over, these are closed PC's.

This is how Apple makes their billions, incremental HW improvements, just have to sell at a profit. They could make a $1000 version of the PS4 at release and enough would buy, not saying they should, but it's to my point.

Say the mass market is $400 and below. But in a year make a $750 dollar version PS4.1 that is just stronger, a year after that put the PS4.1 at $400 and introduce another stronger PS4.2 at $750. To say that doesn't work is to ignore what Apple has done.

This is a terri-bad idea that deserves to be shot behind the woodshed before it bites another animal or human and spreads the derp.

Instead of backwards compatibility you now have forwards compatibility issues. AAA dev decides to only publish for PS4.2 while everyone else is publishing PS4.1. If you don't have 700 dollars to spend every year or two you're fucked. Or even worse, you keep selling revisions but one sells *really* well and to maximize sales developers stick with that revision's system requirements and suddenly nobody is using all the new power and toys and sticking with the old revision and you have DirectX 9/Windows XP all over again, with dead hardware revision cycles.

No, 700 dollar yearly or every-two-year lifespans of hardware is a terrible idea. With iDevices, at least you can make phone calls, listen to music, etc... if your device is too old to make use of all the latest apps.

Making the camera a separate purchase is the only real "dumb" thing it has done so far, but they felt it was needed to beat Microsoft on price. Right off the bat, I will not be buying one nor will the majority of players - it will be either a failed or an extremely niche accessory. Meanwhile, every single Xbox One game could be designed for camera and microphone functionality, should it be desired.

These serve such little purpose though, it makes more sense as an optional peripheral. Developers probably won't target something that only a single platform can use anyway, I think we're past the Wii gimmick heyday. Most developers probably won't do much beyond supplementary features like talking to your party in Mass Effect or something equally weird that sounds neat in theory but that no one will use. The only decent thing motion control has given us is dance games and making people pay $100 extra for that should just be an optional accessory.

Yeah, the lack of Eye as a standard peripheral could only be a good thing. Less incentive for shoe-horning shitty mandatory gimmicks in there.

Tangentially related, the other day, I was reading about how Human Revolution Director's Cut uses the screen on the WiiU controller. Apparently, when aiming with a scope, the TV turns into a black hole and you have to hold the controller screen up in front of it to aim. How's that for annoying and completely unnecessary gimmick? "OK guys, we have to use it for *something* more than just inventory and maps!".

Meanwhile, back in PS3-land, I was happy to see Suxaxis-usage all but evaporate after the first batch of failed implementations. No more trying to aim grenades, fly or balance across waterfalls using the silly thing, and games were better for it. The only half-decent usage of it during the life of the system (that I can think of from the ones I played) is occasionally having to shake your flashlight back to life in The Last of Us. Worth the hardware/manufacturing cost? Truly adding something to the game? Uh... I don't think so.

Making the camera a separate purchase is the only real "dumb" thing it has done so far,

Not really, considering how absolutely non-essential Playstation Move has been. There was almost no reason to own one, and I'm guessing right out of the box you really won't need the PS4 camera either.

Cutter wrote on Jun 30, 2013, 00:49:Don't forget a lot of that shit last time out was the whole Bluray vs. HD format war.

Well, to a degree. 360 didn't require it and none of the games really needed it. Meanwhile, MGS4 used all 55gigs on the bluray disc not too long after release and was better because of it(I disagree with the people that don't like the video sequences, because it truly is a story driven game and franchise and you have a cinematic experience with it).

Unfortunately, it really does need it. All of the PS3 games are single disc. A lot of 360 games are multi-disc because DVDs can't store enough data. Add in the 360s absolute shit drive design that will scratch the relatively fragile DVDs if you move the system even slightly while it is on, and the 360 really did need BD drives. They were just pissed because Sony was one of the companies behind Blu Ray.

nin wrote on Jun 30, 2013, 12:28:It's a win for the customer. Not only does it bring the price down, but the consumer isn't forced to use a device they have no interest in. There's no reason/excuse to insist it must be on and connected to the system in order for the console to work, as MS claims.

Exactly this. This crap is why Microsoft wants Kinect on the system and always connected. That video almost makes me physically ill by the way. Anyone who thinks we're going to see a new generation of motion control games is going to be greatly disappointed. VR goggles have a much brighter future than motion control does, user fatigue and the sort of precise input control you need for most gaming are limitations they likely won't be able to overcome.

Making the camera a separate purchase is the only real "dumb" thing it has done so far, but they felt it was needed to beat Microsoft on price. Right off the bat, I will not be buying one nor will the majority of players - it will be either a failed or an extremely niche accessory. Meanwhile, every single Xbox One game could be designed for camera and microphone functionality, should it be desired.

It's a win for the customer. Not only does it bring the price down, but the consumer isn't forced to use a device they have no interest in. There's no reason/excuse to insist it must be on and connected to the system in order for the console to work, as MS claims.

Cutter wrote on Jun 30, 2013, 00:49:Don't forget a lot of that shit last time out was the whole Bluray vs. HD format war.

Well, to a degree. 360 didn't require it and none of the games really needed it. Meanwhile, MGS4 used all 55gigs on the bluray disc not too long after release and was better because of it(I disagree with the people that don't like the video sequences, because it truly is a story driven game and franchise and you have a cinematic experience with it).

We haven't seen much of the PS4 GUI so far but it looks like they've gone to a boxy, simple interface and streamlined most functionality. I really like the presence of the ULP chip for controller recharging and background downloading. I was very disappointed the Xbox One went with batteries again and didn't include a Play and Charge accessory in a $500 kit. Sure include your dumb evil camera but don't include something that matters.

Making the camera a separate purchase is the only real "dumb" thing it has done so far, but they felt it was needed to beat Microsoft on price. Right off the bat, I will not be buying one nor will the majority of players - it will be either a failed or an extremely niche accessory. Meanwhile, every single Xbox One game could be designed for camera and microphone functionality, should it be desired.

These serve such little purpose though, it makes more sense as an optional peripheral. Developers probably won't target something that only a single platform can use anyway, I think we're past the Wii gimmick heyday. Most developers probably won't do much beyond supplementary features like talking to your party in Mass Effect or something equally weird that sounds neat in theory but that no one will use. The only decent thing motion control has given us is dance games and making people pay $100 extra for that should just be an optional accessory.

I am particularly thankful that Sony came to the realization that, since the system is always on, that it could actually recharge controllers and perform downloads while the system is in sleep mode.

Making the camera a separate purchase is the only real "dumb" thing it has done so far, but they felt it was needed to beat Microsoft on price. Right off the bat, I will not be buying one nor will the majority of players - it will be either a failed or an extremely niche accessory. Meanwhile, every single Xbox One game could be designed for camera and microphone functionality, should it be desired.

Otherwise, I hope the PS4 GUI is better than the PS3's was. Relative to the advertising first, player second interface of the 360, it may not be that bad, but it is hardly a winner on its own. We actually picked up a Sony television two years ago and I was slightly surprised that it had a nearly identical layout. Compared to our other televisions (Samsung, Vizio) and those of our friends (LG, Samsung) it is easily the slowest, clunkiest layout. We picked up a Sony Blu-Ray player this past November and it was just as bad. Compared to other competitors, much less what cell phones are pushing, you come away realizing how little attention has been focused on this aspect of the experience. If they are smart, you will have a smart, fun experience the moment you turn on that system.

Originally hoping to flip the Xbox One to pay for the PS4,Ray For limited production runs, X1 systems seem widely available...

Don't forget a lot of that shit last time out was the whole Bluray vs. HD format war. But yeah, it's not rocket surgery to figure out that customers don't like being treated like shit. It was like tonight at work, I screwed up a couple's order. And when it happens, I don't make excuses or blame anyone else - because when it's not my fault I sure as shit let them know that too - but it was a simple, 'You know what? This was entirely my fault, I punched in the wrong thing. I'm very sorry and I'll have what you ordered out in just a few minutes. Can I buy you another round of drinks on me?' And 99% of people are cool with that. Most will even refuse the drinks and still leave a great tip because they appreciate that you were honest and not tried to snow them.

"During times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 29, 2013, 14:19:It is kind of hard to find anything to complain about with Sony. It is like they've traded places with Microsoft from the last gen.Only thing that can save Microsoft now is their exclusives.

Only thing I hope they fix (for PS4) is the speed of store downloads...

But yeah, it has been an amazing change of power, watching these consoles getting rolled out, and the response they get.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jun 29, 2013, 14:19:It is kind of hard to find anything to complain about with Sony.

Yep they did pretty much what any video game hobbyist would have dreamed up. I guess we should say great job, but it also is master of the obvious stuff if you pay attention. For Sony this is a huge turn of events, where I made fun of them, now they get it, welcome.

I am hoping this means that this point forward everything will be backwards compatible. That there will be incremental upgrades instead of generational releases. Why not in two years put in a faster BPU/GPU, etc? No need to start anything over, these are closed PC's.

This is how Apple makes their billions, incremental HW improvements, just have to sell at a profit. They could make a $1000 version of the PS4 at release and enough would buy, not saying they should, but it's to my point.

Say the mass market is $400 and below. But in a year make a $750 dollar version PS4.1 that is just stronger, a year after that put the PS4.1 at $400 and introduce another stronger PS4.2 at $750. To say that doesn't work is to ignore what Apple has done.

MS and EA, they just think we are idiots and follow blindly all the time. Sometimes we do, but it is out of necessity than what we really want to do. That has to suck being a company like that with costumers. But they can look at Sony to see how you can turn it around, if you get your head out of your ass and be humble about it.