I went back and played through them towards the end of TBC I think. But yeah in terms of "In WoW" as far as Outland goes, Vash'j and Kael'thas are definately the 2 antagonists. Illidan? Who's he??

Krekko my guild forum sig is the same as your MMO one. Did I just steal it from you?

Haha, yeah, you see him in a cinematic, and for most people they go the majority of the expansion without knowing who he is, why he's there, why he's bad, and other than him looking really cool, why they should care.

Vashj and Kael'thas definitely have a more prominent effect throughout the expansion, and to most people, despite being mere underlings. You *felt* their presence more and saw it more.

I mean, in theory the build up the Illidan was cool and the build up to Black Temple was awesome, it just didn't pan out, sadly.

Haha, yes you did. Made it when I made this account long ago, maybe even before. Can't remember at this point haha.

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Originally Posted by Drithien

I would prefer for a WarCraft 4 to just pick things up from 3, not WoW. In WoW story has been consistently and thoroughly damaged in favour of gameplay. Plot-holes became more like plot-chasms. Why go to the trouble of fixing all those holes only to end up with just a bit less of a a mess, and not just start over if you can?

Honestly I see nothing wrong with WoW lore, if it were to be flushed out and worked on and finalized.

Like giving us a "This is what happened, this is when it happened, this is the coherent flow of it all".

Fill in plenty of gaps to help make things more cohesive and feel more "real" for some, but also to add depth and complexity to it.

The point of it being was that so many people play WoW but only know Warcraft lore in the bubble of... well WoW. That robs them of appreciation of it, and much like plenty of people didn't know about Illidan, or had reason to care for Illidan, I'd say that a WC4 would be a great addition to the game to help invest and build up what has happened. It's not like you can really just be like "scratch that all".

Illidan wasn't present into much later in the expansion. While this wasn't inherently bad, I think increasing presence is a good thing, and the "looming" feeling of him getting closer and closer and your encounter becoming impending is a cool aspect to have, we were just so far removed and out of touch from him for so long that when we got to that point we did not have that emotional investment in him, unless you played WC3/TFT.

-Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

Illidans behavior has less to do with tyrande and more to do with the fact that he has a huge ass ego and Malfurion keeps unintentionally showing him up. Illidan always felt that he was the better twin, his chosen school of magic was superior to his brothers skill and chosen school of magic. Illidan always thinks he knows better than everyone else and he is willing to do anything to get the result he is looking for no matter how many people tell him that it is morally bankrupt, the ends justify the means. He loves his brother but damn people need to recognize Illidan’s greatness first. Tyrande was just a trophy wife that he lost to Malfurion even though Illidan considered it a sure thing, she should of swooned as soon as illidan told her, “Tyrande, I choose you! Aren’t you lucky?!?”

To sum up

Illidan is a dick.

Originally Posted by Shinra1

Derpkitteh (I typed this with a straight face!), you're being wholly unreasonable here.

it is actually not too complicated to reintroduce Illidan. He devoured demonic magic to an extent that he eventually became a demon himself.
as we all know, vanquished demons return to the twisting nether and can only be killed when slain in their home realm

talking about onyxia, she wasn't revived. it was the old onyxia in the old timeline with her old lore. her improved stats and improved loot was merely a birthday present from blizz to us

as people simply do not seem to know, maiev went insane and tried to killed highborne, worgen, and malfurion. in the end, she escaped and is still out there

twice, once from human to lich, and once again as a lich
both times it was explored and explained in lore
also, his phylactery is still missing. So he's not dead, he's regenerating / chilling / vacation
RETURN OF THE WRATH OF THE LICH KING

I'd say it's a case of what is he going to come back as than if he is going to come back. It would not be the first time the Burning Legion had stopped someone from passing on to move their own objectives forward (Ner'zhul), that is of course under the assumption he did die at the end of Black Temple.

The major downside to the Burning Crusade expansion was that you had next to no face time with the main big bad, after what they had done with Illidan in Warcraft 3 and the frozen throne it was a let down to see how Blizzard handled him in the first expansion pack. I believe Blizzard would miss a golden opportunity if they did not bring him back in some way.

I have no proof to back up my claims, but faith is not based on facts ^^

Well Illidan is classified as a demon on the character bios on the official wow site on battle.net and as a demon/former night elf in the visual guide if I remember correctly.
There were those quests introduced in Cata. The one in Darkshore was a feat of strength, you had to actually be looking for the quest to know to fall in the whirlpool. The demon hunter was a ghost, and there was a comment by either him or some related NPC who said I wonder how many people have found their way and were trained by him or whatever, and when you give that item quest dropped from him to the night elf quest receiver now the night elves have a way to train demon hunters if ever they needed to. I think she said she'd give it to Tyrande or something.

There's the one in felwood, that basically explains Illidan wasn't bad and he always was trying to do good. And the night elves there decide to leave the demon huger alive/alone when they figure out he's doing good and killing demons, not night elves.

The one in the blasted lands shows how demon hunters can come back, and more quests that end with the demon hunter disappearing somewhere.

The monk in the monk training area, the first trainer (I think Cheng or something), says how he wanted to be a demon hunter first. Blizz teasing us.

Maiev has gone evil/crazy from Illidan not being around, maybe she'll bring him back from the twisting nether or something.

There was the stuff in the warlock questline. Illidan had a well in BT, the demons are still around on Outland that he freed (through this well) for some reason, kanrethad returned from some world through a portal and was all demon and had to be banished so he never returned or whatever, and etc.

Metzen's comments during last Blizzcon. When people asked during the two different q and a's, how he'll likely bring Illidan back, he's a sucker for redemption stories, and etc.

Metzen's tweets on who people want brought back, Metzen's tweets that Illidan is still out there and WoE wasn't it, the random polls Blizz did if I remember correctly had Illidan winning, the constant persistence from people asking for DHs also means Illidan would come back

Wrathion basically saying and repeating how the burning legion is coming soon, he seems like the kind of guy Wrathion would like and want
Velen's short story mentioned the kind of things Wrathion's saying, BL is coming and we need to fight back with the army light.
That blank scroll short story mentioned the BL coming (before Azshara basically).
Metzen's comments and the MoP in game tip that Alleria and Turalyon haven't been seen for a while, and will play a big part in the next expac and we'll really need them for what's coming

The people who make all these claims about Illidan add so much fandom based junk to his story in their heads from the WC3 it's not even funny. He was not some super amazing character that outshined any other you played as in the series. The only difference between him and the "good" characters was he was that gray area where someone like Arthas went from the light to darkness etc. He is overrated simply in the heads of people who are delusional about WC3's actual happenings.

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Originally Posted by Frizzlewits

keal'thas was surely killed in TK, well he looks dead to me, but behold!
IT was merely a setback!

how many times kelthuzad was ressed?
and ony

does blizz needs a reason?
or perhaps they think, hey BT was fun, lets rework that like
NAX and the long list of reworked dungeons/raids.

we are not prepaired!

Kael was explained in the very same quest you get when you kill him. How did you not know he was alive if you ever killed him before MT/SWP? He drops the verdant sphere back before anyone even knew SWP was going to happen and you turn it to A'dal and he revives and you hear him telling you both how KJ is coming. This all happens before BT was even released.

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Originally Posted by Demsi

Remember that he is a demon, and when demons die, they dont really die, their spirit just get sent to the twisting nether for a while to chill.

That became a bastardization of the truth somewhere along the line. Only Naztherim, void beings, and pit lords were capable of such and mostly Naztherim. Somewhere along the line players confused that with all demons and the game apparently followed suit except the proof still exists in the in game mechanics. Succubi, imps, felhounds, felguards, gnarg etc all leave a corpse. When they die, they die.

Furthermore Illidan is neither demon nor night elf. That has been flat out stated. So no he is not a demon.

twice, once from human to lich, and once again as a lich
both times it was explored and explained in lore
also, his phylactery is still missing. So he's not dead, he's regenerating / chilling / vacation
RETURN OF THE WRATH OF THE LICH KING

keal'thas was surely killed in TK, well he looks dead to me, but behold!
IT was merely a setback!

how many times kelthuzad was ressed?
and ony

does blizz needs a reason?
or perhaps they think, hey BT was fun, lets rework that like
NAX and the long list of reworked dungeons/raids.

we are not prepaired!

Ony was only brought back lore wise once, for BWL. The second coming during wotlk was a b day present for blizz to us
Kelthuzad.... counting his lore transformation to a lich..... twice including naxx 2.0
kael thas once and if u actually did his quest line after tk... you knew he was alive

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Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking

Did you notice the new toy at Blizzcon is the Lich king? muahahahaha!

for Kels phylatery.... sindragosa did drop one from a nameless lich >.> hes in my chars bank..... damn hes been in an unsubbed chars back for like 4 years now