4

It's sad that porn, or maybe erotica is a better term for this kind of material, has to chase a dollar and go to the lowest common denominator. I like a fairly wide range of porn and my collection has a lot of this 'softer' stuff. I like the more natural feel and timing to it. It has a sensuality to it that the hard stuff (purposely) lacks. There's more than enough hard stuff out there; I hope those of us who appreciate the artcore sites can persuade them to go back to their original purpose.

5

I'm a fan of artcore/glamcore sites too but I haven't joined any in several months. I wasn't aware that Sex Art even existed. I also wasn't aware that a lot of sites I like have been shifting to a 'harder' model. What I like about these kinds of sites is the connection between the models that adds so much sensuality. I also like that the scenes aren't hour-long endurance tests. I hope existing members challenge the site owners and cause them to go back to the softer stuff.

One question - when you say the scenes are 'dark' do you mean the actual lighting or the mood? Or both?

6

WTF do they even mean by "closed mind". Do we go there to discuss some opinion pieces about society, economics, etc., or do we go there to get sexually aroused and relieve ourselves? If I am not excited by things being thrust into crappers and maybe even being turned off by it, no exhorting will make me get excited. What next, introduce TS stuff with guys sucking dicks and ask people to open their minds even wider?

And having a fake model interview is even funnier. Sure, she doesn't want to come to work, do something quick and harmless and go home. She definitely wants to have her asshole pounded "at the office", because of course, these guys are all about her pleasure, they do everything to have each model orgasm ten times per shoot. Sure.

And it's not like they are getting into an empty niche. The vast majority of sites is at least half anal nowadays.

I'm coming from a similar viewpoint: trying to find material that my partner would enjoy. But I'm a virtual virgin when it comes to paid porn. Started with Abby Winters last week, but am ready to move on. So I need some suggestions.

If you happen to read this, Parsnip, or anyone else, I'm looking for a variety of adult material. Not much, maybe an hour or two of 1080P video in each category, and say, 200 stills. Here are the categories:

1. Under 25, amateur, male-female
With a fairly realistic depiction of how a couple in that age group would normally have sex. Abby Winters failed in that regard because virtually all the Girl-Boy videos appeared to be staged. If it's boring sex for viewers, as it probably would be, that's quite okay. My partner and I want a glimpse of what young people do together. You've probably guessed, we're no longer young.

2. Female orgasmReal orgasms, please. I know -- how can you tell? Well, actually, there are involuntary physiological indications, but I won't go into that here. Prefer older than 25 because younger than that, as per Abby Winters again, I get the impression they are mostly copying the mannerisms, mouth contortions, yodelling and yelping that they've seen elsewhere. Don't suggest I Feel Myself. That site is definitely out of the running because of the attitude of the owner in responses on this site, and because of his belief that squirting during orgasm is real.

4. Older women
Older meaning up to retirement age, out on a fling, most likely with a younger partner. A fantasy type of thing showing a mature woman enjoying sex.

5. Professional actors staging realistic sex
Hard to describe what I'm looking for here. Combine the best production values out of Hollywood, with actors playing the part of two people having believable sex. Not hard core, but more intimate than what Hollywood could portray. Imagine passionate sex scenes between Rhett and Scarlett, Rick and Ilsa, Charlie Allnut and Rose.

Any suggestions as to suitable sites would be most welcome. I want to avoid sites that are focussed on, or have a preponderance of:

The sort of thing that a woman who is feeling sexy with her man would not be turned off by. In case the word "woman" is not clear: your partner, wife, girlfriend, sister, mother, aunt. i.e. an ordinary woman who themselves would definitely not want to be seen in such a video, but who, in private, might enjoy watching a respectful portrayal of another sexy woman.

10

I appreciated your review, Parsnip, especially the comments regarding anal. Totally agree. I'm in this for myself and partner for showing in our home theatre (projected on a 3m screen) so the material I download has to appeal to her and be in 1080P.

I'm new to paying for adult stuff, only subscribed to Abby Winters so far, and am on the lookout for the next site. Thus my interest in Joymii.

Abby Winters was interesting (I'll write a full review sometime). A total of 6.7 GB of downloads and I'd seen enough. Cancelled after 3 days. Time to move on. I kept about 50 stills, 3 masturbation videos that looked reasonably convincing, 9 masturbation videos that I consider highly sus or fake (with my partner's help we'll come to a consensus on that), and only one video that I thought worth keeping –- and that will have to be edited from 35 minutes to about 10 minutes. $40 for a short video and a few dozen stills. But worth it as part of my learning experience.

The problem is the tendency, as you've identified, to slip into the depths of porn. The drive comes not only from male consumers demanding harder material, but paid females wanting to satisfy that demand. A woman may start out as the girl next door, or normal, or real, or any of the other euphemisms for non-professional, but when they start getting paid for performance, money almost immediately corrupts them into exaggeration or fakery. I suspect this would be a particular problem for sites that add the additional incentive of paying the woman per view (e.g. I Fell Myself, Make Love Not Porn). What woman could resist adding the extra gyration, that extra yelp, that squirt of urine, if it meant more money through increased viewers?

On a different topic: does Joymii show female ejaculation (read "urination")? That would turn off my partner as does anal.

Here's my take on the subject. I was going to sign up for IFM today. It was on my list from my initial research last week, when I choose AW to be the first. Before taking the plunge I thought I'd check the reviews once again, here and on Rabbits. I'm glad I did. I may have been convinced by IFM's spiel when I was a porn virgin last week. Not any longer. I'm reading Human Sexual Response at the moment (Masters and Johnson), and plowing through the Hite Reports. I was put on alert by IFM's 400 words under Female Ejaculation -- The Truth. The real truth is, in 7500 female orgasms monitored by Masters and Johnson in the lab, ejaculation basically didn't rate much of a mention except during the plateau phase: "Secretion of drop or two of mucoid material [from Bartholin's Glands] aiding in lubrication of vaginal outlet during long-maintained coital connection", p285. None of the Hite Reports say much about it.

AW has at least 20 squirting videos. IFM thinks it's real and, I would suspect, encourages any model who brings up the subject. How prevalent is it in Joymii?

11

If 99.9% never have issue and love what we're doing, and one or two people get caught and then cry out to the public because they're so hard done by and innocent etc.. that makes us the bad guy here? Alright.

If you had any experience running a network of sites, you'd know that it is impossible to please everyone. Thus, we don't try. We do what we do for us. We create the content we want to create, we don't kiss ass of anyone, nor do we ask that anyone kisses our ass. We stand up to people that try and take advantage of us and that bothers some of the people. Sorry it ruffled your feathers.

I wish we could have no limits or issues. I also wish people didn't site rip or steal content and create torrents. Still, it happens. Sites have to protect themselves against malicious users, regardless of your opinion. All sites do this, I'm just saying it out loud and in doing so, that gives you a face. A target at which to voice your displeasure on the topic. I get it.

Read the reviews we have, people love what we do. As for you saying you'll never join, that's cool, I hope you find a site you enjoy. Still doesn't change the fact that if someone is busted doing something and then comes into a board and tries to call us out, we're going to defend ourselves.

For what we offer, compared to what we charge.. sorry, but there simply isn't another network offering this level of quality or updates or exclusivity for this price. $24.95 for access to all our sites, zero upsells for our other sites because they're all included, videos in 4K and 1080P (1920 x 1080, not that 1280 x 720 and calling it HD stuff). Photos ranging from 4000 pixels down,, where most sites offer 1500-2000 and call those 'high res'. We rebill 20% cheaper at $19.95.

Sure I can go to Videobox or other sites cheaper and get assorted porn, but not in this quality, not this exclusive and these aren't real girl next door types, they're porn stars. None of our ladies are porn industry for hire types.

We have regular girls that have appeared in Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler as well as other exclusive college girl types. We're not the best, we're not the worst, but we're good at what we do and we'll keep on doing it.

13

It is all so cheap, and the irony tends to be that there is an inverse relationship between price and quality........the higher the price the poorer the quality in general.

I used to be disappointed by this... now I simply expect it.

Bad webmasters need to charge lots for the few fools who buy their packages since more experienced consumers have learned to not spend that money for a carnival package where the promises fail to deliver once you pay the high fee.

14

I hadn't even heard of this site, but after reading your lengthy comments on Joy Mii and subsequent recommendation of SexArt I've spent time checking it out. I, too, have reached saturation point with anal and dp and the rest of fairly brutal hardcore porn. I do find lovely models but they're almost entirely turned over to anal assaults and trying to find scenes without it is nearly impossible. Comments scream about a lack of anal scenes even at a place like Video Box where there is virtually complete coverage. And, of course, the quality of camerawork, direction, design etc is terrible. I'm culling a high percentage of what I've downloaded over the years realizing that most of it I never watch. I'm giving it a try because it looks wonderful - of course I thought that about X-Art, Joy Mii and Babes at one time or the other, so fingers crossed. Thanks.

15

I realized that there would be some negative feedback with this review given the nature of the site. I've been a member of other Kink sites in the past and I'll admit that these scenes push my limits.

I don't agree with you that the interviews are insignificant. Both the pre- and post-scene interviews are lengthy, detailed and seem genuine and I suspect that a model would have a hard time hiding her displeasure if those were her true feelings. I've also read some independent accounts of Kink and they seem to be held in high regard by most in the industry. It's also worth noting that many of the producers (and I think that's the case here) are female.

Another factor to consider is that Kink is well known so any A-list model would know what she was getting into. Add to that the fact that several A-list models work repeatedly for Kink. Amy Brooke, Amber Rayne and Chastity Lynn all have multiple scenes. These women can get work with any studio so it makes sense that they're okay with Kink if they continue to work with them. I agree that there is an argument to be made that Kink sweetens the deal by paying more, and that's probably true. But consider that if an A-list model had no interest in working with Kink even if they paid double, she could find two more mainstream scenes which would probably still be easier.

Kink also features fetish models who appear in a lot of BDSM material and who do a lot of work for Kink. Most of these models are every bit as attractive as an A-lister so there has to be a reason why those models don't go to mainstream porn. They could make the same money (though may have to shoot more, but easier scenes) but they choose to shoot for Kink over and over. That has to say something, especially when those models are interviewed and continually refer to past shoots as enjoyable.

While this is rough sex, and I think the r@pe thing is too far over the top, it isn't anything like what Max Hardcore or JM Productions used to shoot. In those shoots there was, it seems, a genuine attempt to degrade the model. (Consider that JM Productions actually released a commercial video of Tanner Mayes having a meltdown on the set over her missing cell phone. Jim Powers egged her on the whole time knowing he would be able to exploit her.)

I'll admit that I'm basing most of my opinions on this and other Kink sites on the interviews. But those interviews don't look scripted. The post-scene interview is shot immediately after the scene and the model would have a hard time hiding any discomfort. The models all report that they enjoyed the scene.

I respect your opinion, but given the evidence, coupled with edits (which are likely shooting breaks), I don't agree with your take that this is "violence, brutality and shattering pain." Kink has a good reputation in the business and I think it's more likely that this is part of the atmosphere that the director wants to create.

16

Really 80% B/G vids are anal, whats sites are we talking about, yeah there are anal sites like evilangel but the majority of the American networks like Reality Kings, Brazzers, Porn Pro etc the vids seem mainly straight with the odd anal one. Most sites I've joined are more like 80% vaginal sex and 20% anal if that.

17

I have cut way back on porn purchases, enjoyment in the material is way down, largely due to all the anal, but it's just a part of the problem - a site has to cater to the people who spend the money. If I don't spend my money while all the anal fans do, they get to dictate what scenes are created in the future.

18

I respect your decision to stand up for your beliefs and follow through with your purchasing power.

I can tell you that not all porn companies act the same way. Some treat their performers like animals, and others treat them like kings and queens. Without you being physically present on one of our productions, there's probably not a lot I can do to convince you we have one of the best reputations in the industry in regards to the treatment of talent. If the opportunity was available, would you be interested?

The attention drawn to anal sex, indicates there is sufficient meaning to you in your personal life and how it symbolises the treatment of women. But is it fair to draw assumptions about talent treatment, based purely on a sex act?

Let me elaborate: if you've subscribed to our newsletter, we showed many behind-the-scenes photos of Petra Q, having fun and enjoying our shoot with us. She told us she preferred anal sex over regular sex, and wanted to work with us again.

What if you enjoyed a typical, vaginal sex scene, but discovered that the production for that scene involved the talent being severely overworked, her vagina sore from 4 back-to-back scenes shot that day, the company provided no catering, her passport was confiscated, she is working with people she hates, and at the end of the day, she's paid $50 for that scene - or worse - she's been unpaid for months?

Do you penalise X-Art and Joymii for publishing anal performances the girls enjoyed doing, but reward the other companies for treating their talent like slave labor because their end product did not have anal?

Admittedly, this question is a bit rhetorical because it's quite philosophical. But one I hope all visitors consider if the treatment of talent - both male and female - is important to them.

21

I understand and really appreciate you taking the time to comment and review our site. Could you contact us directly? I would like to extend your membership for free.

I'm hoping you don't judge us based on 2% of our content catalogue. Even if that number rises to 5%, would you be satisfied with the other 95%?

We recognize we can't please everyone. I have personally received angry emails from FEMALE members, expressing their displeasure of NOT having enough anal scenes, expressed just as vehemently as you.

No product is 100% perfect. We merely try to achieve as close to that as possible for our members. If 2% imperfection taints the 98% of the site you are happy with, I regret we can't achieve that, but again I would like to express my thanks to you for providing such constructive criticism. It's users like you, who make us better.

22

You are right.
The scheduling could have been better with a hardcore anal scene immediately following a light, anal-fingering solo.

To be fair, only 5 out of 230+ scenes are anal.
We understand anal is not for everyone. We are sorry to see you go and thank you very much for being a viewer.

Our target audience are couples, or those who appreciate real, passionate sex. Anal sex is the single most-requested non-traditional sex act by males to their partners. A recent Center for Disease Control, multi-year study, also surprised researchers by revealing the prevalence of anal sex among heterosexual couples. Numerous sexual commentary by the general audience, have shown offering anal sex is one of the biggest expressions of love in a relationship.

We pay attention to every comment, and anal sex is the most-requested addition by our members. By that measure, 5 out of 230+ scenes is under-serving of our members' needs. This means we plan to increase the percentage of anal sex slightly, not grotesquely. As always, it must be artistically logical with the overall theme of the site: real love and passion.

23

Fair enough. I guess it's different for me because I watch them on a 24" LCD at 1920x1200, so the resolving power is higher. And certainly a part of it has to do with tastes, as I prefer my videos crisp and with more skin texture (rather than soft and glamorized skin tone). Also it is entirely plausible that SexArt has recently upgraded their encoding methods.

24

25

Really sorry you feel that way. We did have one rendering issue with that specific video. It is also not nice for you to speak about the models like that. We have many beautiful girls and couples from Europe and USA. You can see a small preview of what we have to offer on our blog.

Funny that out of over 425 films on the site and over 715 awesome photo galleries (with new update EVERY day) you pick the only two we had issues with recently to discuss here. How about the good ones? I love this most recent one: x-art.com/videos/good_night_kiss/ you REALLY should watch it...

If you would like to come back for a free trial and see what is coming up I am sure you will not be disappointed. How long were you a member?

I try really hard, but I guess you can't please everyone all the time.

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