We know the target for the 2015 Ford Power Stroke was to beat the horsepower and torque ratings of the 2014 Ram Heavy-Duty HO Cummins and the overall performance characteristics of GM's current 6.6-liter Duramax V-8 (offered in both the Chevy and GMC three-quarter-ton and one-ton pickups). But it looks like GM is getting ready to fight back, specifically with a newlytuned Duramax for its 2016 or 2017 HD pickups. Here's what our hot-weather-loving spy shooters have to tell us:

"We caught GM engineers testing several prototypes outfitted with an upgraded version of its Duramax turbo-diesel V-8 engine. We don't have any performance specifications at this time, but the goal must certainly be to bump the current 6.6-liter Duramax turbo-diesel's horsepower, torque and and towing capacity to counter Ford's recently upgraded 6.7-liter Power Stroke V-8 turbo-diesel. Ford's revamped 6.7-liter diesel currently outguns GM's 6.6-liter units — the Ford generates 440 horsepower and 860 pounds-feet of torque versus GM's 397 hp and 760 pounds-feet of torque of the Duramax.

"We don't know exactly what internal changes are in play on these latest GMC and Chevrolet HD prototypes, although our sources have reported that a more potent turbo and software upgrades are on tap for the 2016 model year. This fits perfectly with the evidence now spotted undergoing severe hot-weather testing in the California desert."

Deeper Breathing to Add Power

"We can clearly see that part of GM's strategy is to feed more air into the engine, via a new functional hood air-intake designed into the trucks' redesigned hoods. The new airduct sits prominently near the leading edge of the hood — the GMC gets a circular mesh intake grille while the Chevy appears to get a diamond-shaped interweaving mesh grille insert."

Definitely a Diesel

"You may be wondering how we can be sure that these prototypes were powered by GM's Duramax turbo-diesel engines. Here's how: We caught some of the prototypes tanking up and it was definitely diesel being dispensed into the truck. We also managed to zoom in tight on the fuel door, and it read 'Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel Only.' It's also worth noting that the test group had a Ford F-350 on hand as a benchmark vehicle, fitted with the 6.7-liter PowerStroke turbo-diesel V-8.

"We're hearing that more changes may ultimately be in store for GM's full-size trucks, with some additional, modest changes to the trucks' front fascias joining the redesigned hood spotted on these prototypes."

We'd also note that the diesel exhaust fluid tank, clumsily mounted underneath the front passenger door, looks like it has some bulky padding protecting or hiding something. This is the main piece of information regarding this camouflaged vehicle, meaning GM has tried to make it look like it's keeping the exposed tank in that location when we predict it will be moved to a less-exposed location. We're calling this box a decoy. Also, given the fact that there is no instruction or explanation about DEF on the fuel filler door, we assume GM will keep the filling spout underneath the hood in the engine compartment. We're also guessing GM will want to take the horsepower ratings above 420 and torque to the low-to-mid-800s. We'll know more later.

I hope a 5500 HD cab and chassis model is coming with the new Duramax.

Posted by: Big Bob | Jul 30, 2014 3:50:35 PM

Still got that DEF tank hanging down behind the passenger front wheel, I can see someone driving off a curb and crunch.

Posted by: Joe | Jul 30, 2014 3:51:24 PM

"But it looks like GM is getting ready to fight back, specifically with a newlytuned Duramax for its 2016 or 2017 HD"

The problem is the 2017 GM is fighting back against the 2015, but it will be the new 2017 Super Duty GM will have to fight.

Posted by: Dan | Jul 30, 2014 3:57:42 PM

We dont even know if ford or ram caught up with the duramax yet. Wheres the new hd challenge?GM/duramax may just push farther ahead.

Posted by: MIKE | Jul 30, 2014 4:09:15 PM

GM really has no choice here. But as has been mentioned, they're a day late and a dollar short. By the time these hit the ground, the next Super Duty will be here, or very close. Ram will be close to another update on the Cummins...or possibly going in-house like they did with the 1500?

Seems par for the course for GM though.

I personally can not wait for the HD Hurt Locker results to come out!

Posted by: lray801 | Jul 30, 2014 4:22:00 PM

you guys could make money owning a Super Duty!
I know a guy that tows a 30 foot 5th wheel trailer around the country and he makes $130K a year.
Snow plows, a major snowstorm in a city you can make $3000 to $4000 a day.

Posted by: Tom#3 | Jul 30, 2014 4:22:42 PM

Yeah, last time I checked the 6.6 LML Duramax/Allison combo was running circles around the 6.7 Powerstroke and Cummins with less power. Remember that power to weight ratio Fords bragging about with the new F-150s? Well GM has the advantage here. Less powerful engines, in a truck that weighs less than its rivals.

Posted by: Wake up | Jul 30, 2014 4:29:35 PM

Didn't the current Duramax just beat Ford and Dodge's new diesels in PickupTrucks.com's own 2015 Ford Super Duty F-350: Quick Comparison test?

I'd say the Ford and Dodge boys are the ones who need to catch up.

Posted by: Jason | Jul 30, 2014 4:31:26 PM

Congratulations. Ram won again.

Posted by: HEMI | Jul 30, 2014 4:55:25 PM

Still got that DEF tank hanging down behind the passenger front wheel, I can see someone driving off a curb and crunch.

Posted by: Joe | Jul 30, 2014 3:51:24 PM

Did you even read the story Joe?

(We'd also note that the diesel exhaust fluid tank, clumsily mounted underneath the front passenger door, looks like it has some bulky padding protecting or hiding something. This is the main piece of information regarding this camouflaged vehicle, meaning GM has tried to make it look like it's keeping the exposed tank in that location when we predict it will be moved to a less-exposed location. We're calling this box a decoy.)

@Big Bob There a good chance GM is building a 4500 truck and maybe even a 5500 as Mark Reuss has been throwing out bits of Info on filling a black hole in GM HD line.

@Pickuptrucks.com How come no Info one the new Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra appearance packages on 1500 models

You probably have already heard about how eight-speed automatic transmissions are going to find their way into the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 1500 pickup trucks, along with other features such as the “GearOn” cargo management system and SAE J2807 tow ratings. The slew of updates won’t stop there, or anytime soon, for that matter, as we’ve just confirmed with dealer sources that General Motors will be gracing its breadwinning trucks with a new, black-out appearance package.

(For Chevrolet Silverado customers, this package will be called “Rally.” It’s expected to entail a blackened grille frame, blackened mirror plates, black running boards, black wheels, and a black Bowtie logo. The package will also feature carbon fiber “appearance” decals. Meanwhile, the GMC version will get the “Carbon” designation.

These packages are expected to become available for 2015-model-year Silverado and Sierra 1500 pickups later this year.)

Posted by: johnny doe | Jul 30, 2014 5:00:26 PM

Do these new GM HD come with Black Boxes under the passenger? Or is that some kind of store away box?

Friggin bizarre!!!

Posted by: Frank | Jul 30, 2014 5:03:22 PM

@Joe, I guess you're not very efficient in the reading department.

"We'd also note that the diesel exhaust fluid tank, clumsily mounted underneath the front passenger door, looks like it has some bulky padding protecting or hiding something. This is the main piece of information regarding this camouflaged vehicle, meaning GM has tried to make it look like it's keeping the exposed tank in that location when we predict it will be moved to a less-exposed location. We're calling this box a decoy."

Posted by: Bob | Jul 30, 2014 5:06:43 PM

I personally think these trucks hold a whole brand new Duramax diesel eninge from the ground up. Maybe it is the current old 6.6L that's been out since 2001, but I don't think it is unless GM has figured out a way to squeeze just a little more power and touch more efficient out of it.

Posted by: johnny doe | Jul 30, 2014 5:08:24 PM

Noticed these have the new GM towing mirrors on them that arent chrome either. Glad they finally updated them!

Posted by: Jared | Jul 30, 2014 5:16:22 PM

Who cares with this Obama gov motors pos.Fight socialist vehicles buy a ford.

Posted by: ford man | Jul 30, 2014 5:18:15 PM

These trucks just got recalled. It figures.

Posted by: Truck Crazy. | Jul 30, 2014 5:56:15 PM

I hate to say this, but 2014 Silverado is now the most recalled vehicle in the country.

Poppy GM is getting a little sloppy.

Posted by: Chris | Jul 30, 2014 6:27:25 PM

I predict the 2015 F-150 will be a flop and that bad news will also effect the sales of the Ford Super Duty and Chevy and Ram will pull ahead in sales.

Posted by: Tom#3 | Jul 30, 2014 6:30:32 PM

How about comparing engines based on costs per 100,000 miles? Based on real maintenance data...?

Posted by: madmax3 | Jul 30, 2014 6:38:30 PM

The best is going to get better! The last King of the hill, GM walked away with first place. Who was trying to catch up then? It took Ford and Ram three years before overtaking the Duramax. I wonder how many years it will take you after the next Duramax?

Posted by: greg | Jul 30, 2014 7:48:37 PM

I'm not crazy about GM half tons but the Chev Hd looks kind of mean.

Maybe because the HD`s sit taller?

Posted by: spacetrukin | Jul 30, 2014 8:08:31 PM

Notice how they have a ford on hand and not a ram. The best compliment to ford is the fact that it is always the one the competition compares itself against.

Posted by: beebe | Jul 30, 2014 8:32:26 PM

I offered GM some magic horsepower fairy dust like I supplied Ford. They told me to get lost, "we make real horsepower. " I think Ford is calling, gotta go resupply them with powerjoke horsepower purple pixie dust ciao.... -Tink

Posted by: Tinker Bell | Jul 30, 2014 8:51:49 PM

I predict a whole new ball game here from GM, not just an upgrade of the existing Duramax. Just as the 1st gen Duramax was a game changer for the HD diesel pickup segment when it debut back in 2001, so shall this next gen Duramax set the new benchmark.

Posted by: rick | Jul 30, 2014 9:06:55 PM

Chevy/GMC really need a home run on this one. Climb out of the recall dust and get this one right. In these above pics i like the look of the chevy better than the GMC. It's usually the other way around. The interior has been much improved and is better than Fords fisher price interior with Ram being the best. I think the best vehicle to tow will need more than horsepower to win however that is an important ingredient. Takes a whole package and Ram being the King of the beast is the one to knock off the hill NOT FORD. : (

"This new Ram 3500 HD controls huge amounts of weight as if it were carrying a much smaller load, and you get out of the truck at the end of a long day of towing feeling like you haven't been. What more could you want from your beast of burden?"

A class action lawsuit was filed Monday against GM in federal court on behalf of 658 people killed in crashes allegedly caused by faulty ignition switches. Meanwhile, the company has recalled more than 2.5 million vehicles. However, we wondered how many have been fixed.

Gerry and Jay Gass say their daughter Lara, 27, was killed March 18 while driving a Saturn Ion with a defective ignition switch.

One of the last messages Gerry Gass sent to her was an email telling her to have a safe trip back to Lexington.

"That's what parents are supposed to do is - protect your children, and...they made it impossible for me to protect her," he said.

Complete list of GM recalls this year

But so far, less than a quarter of the nearly 2.6 million vehicles recalled by GM have been fixed. Most remain on the roads with the faulty iginition switch that the company says has led to the deaths of 13 people.

pegues1.jpg
Gerry Gass and daughter Lara
CBS News

We asked Clarence Ditlow, with the Center for Auto Safety if he believed GM has the parts.

"No, I don't," he said. "If you don't have an adequate stock at every dealership in America, you're not going to get this recall done."

We called more than 30 GM dealerships across the country and were told parts are being ordered on an "individual basis." One dealership said it would take two to three months for the part to arrive.

What GM has not figured out is that in the real world customers are not going to care about who has the highest tow rating because the vast majority of HD drivers aren't going to be driving a 3500 dually towing at max capacity.

Yes there are buyers who are influenced by who best numbers, but I believe that most buyers look at other things just as much.

All the big 3 offer a good HD truck. All 3 diesels are more than capable of doing whatever the job demands.

So if GM things they can stay ahead of the market by offering the best tow rating and powerful engine is that strategy really going to work for them?

Just look at what happened with the 1500's. GM supposedly released a class leading product with class leading V8 engines. The response from the consumer has been mediocre at best.

If GM really took the game seriously, the would do well to consider an exterior refresh for the 2016/17 trucks. They just need to follow in the footsteps of the Malibu's "emergency" redesign.

Gotta do something about that DEF tank. Hopefully move beyond it being a clumsy retrofitted add on to an actual part designed for the vehicle.

The hood scoop could be a very good idea.

Have to see what ends up being real. Looking forward to ratings with universal standardized standards but have to wait until the New Super Duty before Ford gest on that program.

Posted by: Clint | Jul 30, 2014 10:08:12 PM

Big whoop. A computer reflash.. Blah. The Chevrolet still doesn't get protective wheel well plastic trim for a so called "work truck". Lol... I'm sure farmers on gravel roads just 'love' that. Has Chevrolet started advertising it's cold rolled steel bed? Um, no. It's only for the GovtMoCo truck. Did Chevrolet do away with it's low slung frame and torsion bar set up in favor of a real mans truck suspension and frame height like Ford and Dodge have? Nope. Did they relocated that dreadful Urea tank? Nope. Nice job GM on killing off Chevrolet. GMC A$$holes.

Posted by: J.Tompson, INC. | Jul 30, 2014 10:20:25 PM

How about getting rid of Bose? Buy Other Sound Equipment!

Posted by: Alex | Jul 30, 2014 11:38:10 PM

@ HEMI

Congratulations. Ram won again.

YUP NUMBER #1 IN CUSTOMER DISATISFACTION, POOR RELIABILTY.

Posted by: RAMJUNK | Jul 30, 2014 11:43:34 PM

THE RAM ARMY JEALOUS OF REAL TRUCKS THAT WORK.....GM AND FORD

Posted by: RAMJUNK | Jul 31, 2014 12:01:51 AM

That thing got a Hemi? No, not really.

By Don Sherman
Share Share

Jun 02, 2004

With the possible exception of FORD, HEMI is the most celebrated set of four letters in all automobiledom. At the mere mention of the word, teens drool, musclecar mavens bow, and mothers draw small children under protective arms. The actor Jon Reep launched his career by uttering, "That thing got a Hemi?" in recent Dodge Ram television ads.

0407_hemi_head_old_800.jpg

0407_hemi_head_new_800.jpg

See all 2 photos

After three decades of retirement, the return of the Hemi engine ranks with the capture of Sadam Hussein as righteous proof of America's unyielding spirit. At least that's what I, as a member of the 1960s Hemi-owning and admiring generation, thought upon hearing that Chrysler was resuscitating its Hemi. But, upon close inspection of the new engine's innards, I was disappointed to find that the vaunted hemispherical combustion chambers are NOT part of the deal.

The HEMI name comes from the dome-shaped ceiling atop each cylinder inside some engines, a configuration that has seen wide aircraft, motorcycle, and racing use since it was introduced by obscure Belgian car maker Pipe in 1905. The key benefit is that the hemispherical dome facilitates extra large intake and exhaust valves, a relatively uninhibited pathway for fuel and air into the cylinder, and an easy means for spent exhaust gasses to escape. The easier it is for an engine to pump its working fluids, the more power it produces.

Chrysler first experimented with Hemi designs for World War II aircraft engine use. The fruit of that research appeared under the hoods of 1951 Chrysler Saratoga and New Yorker sedans. Chrysler's first hemi-headed V-8s produced 180 horsepower versus Cadillac's 160 hp and Oldsmobile's 135 hp, lighting the fuse on the original horsepower war.

DeSoto and Dodge picked up variations on the hemi theme for 1952-58 models. In 1964, when Chrysler needed a hot engine for stock car and drag racing, a second generation V-8 was introduced and a version informally called street hemi was offered to civilian Dodge and Plymouth buyers. My 1968 Hemi Road Runner generated a mighty 425 horsepower and ran over 110 mph in the quarter mile.

To find out how Chrysler's new 5.7-liter V-8 could be labeled Hemi in spite of the fact its combustion chambers look nothing like sliced grapefruit, I met with Bob Lee, Chrysler's vice president of powertrain product engineering.

Lee assured me no deception is afoot. The engineers responsible for Chrysler's new engine had better intentions than merely dusting off Hemis in the back of their closet. Early in the research phase, they discovered a combustion chamber that Porsche used for 1965-97 air-cooled 911s offered the ideal starting point for their new design. Porsche's head happened to be a hemi.

Engineers are not about to leave well enough alone so little from the Porsche design made the long trip to what's now called the 5.7-liter Hemi Magnum V-8. Much of the bowl area of the combustion chamber was filled in to encourage the fuel-air mixture to stir itself prior to ignition. The chamber is shallower than past Hemis so the top of the piston can be nearly flat, thereby saving reciprocating weight. The one vestige from Porsche's classic design is large valves rotated 90 degrees from the most common orientation (in a plane parallel to the crankshaft), and splayed at a 34.5-degree angle in the interests of free breathing.

The natural course of engineering evolution has moved Chrysler's hero powerplant far from its Porsche roots and severed all ties to the Hemis of yore. Even though it isn't a genuine hemi, this engine still packs a powerful punch as a marketing ploy.

The automaker is forced to rely on higher incentives to support the sales of those models, Marchionne said.

“It is something that we obviously intend to remedy,” Marchionne told analysts during a conference call today. “I think we need to become a lot more disciplined on the pricing side of this.”

Posted by: Greg S. | Jul 31, 2014 1:23:43 AM

UPDATE 2-Sales up, but net profit down

MILAN, July 30 (Reuters) - Fiat plans to review its leasing and sales incentive practices in North America to boost margins in the region

The North American operations, dominated by Chrysler, the third-largest U.S. carmaker which Fiat now fully owns, have become an increasingly important profit centre for Fiat

But second-quarter operating profit in the region fell 18 percent despite a 7 percent rise in sales, hit by higher incentives put in place to sell older Chrysler models and a higher proportion of leasing deals, which offer lower margins than retail sales to individual customers.

Despite all the fan boys trashing Chevy/GMC you gotta admit one thing. If you gotta do work, you want to LOOK GOOD doing it. Those are some beautiful new trucks!

Posted by: papa jim | Jul 31, 2014 5:33:41 AM

For those of you that think this websites 'quick comparison' test which showed a few cherry picked mph and actually thought you could figure anything out from that. Get over to some of the other truck sites and you will see the F-350 PSD smoked the Ram and Chevy in that 3 mile pull. Ram at least tried to keep up. There's about 20+ minutes of video to prove it. They had to let off the Ford due to getting too much speed or the gap would have been worse. The GM's have to get a power update and soon. I really like the new GMC HD look. First good looking GM in about 20-30 years in my opinion. Chevy not so much. But the 2015 PSD is the king of power.

Posted by: Your Daddy | Jul 31, 2014 6:35:55 AM

GUTS

GLORY

MOST POWERFUL HD

MOST RELIABLE HD

MOST DURABLE HD

BEST DIESEL POWERED HD

RAM

Posted by: BIG DADDY RAM | Jul 31, 2014 7:02:34 AM

first pic looks like a 2008 HD with a tumor on the hood, downright ugly, again, they will continue to fall behind, when looking that far ahead, like others have said, by 2017 they will again be in 3rd

Posted by: nitro | Jul 31, 2014 7:06:00 AM

@tom#3... J.D. Power and Associates' 2014 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout study. APEAL tries to assess what people like in their cars. This differs from J.D. Power's other major automotive studies, the 90-day Initial Quality Study and three-year Vehicle Dependability Study, which both rate things that went wrong.

To quote that story link correctly you posted, it's the 90 day INITIAL Quality report. Not a long term report that they also do, correct? Longer term, results will be different for many.

Lol, all the truck racers on here commenting about how fast these can tow up a hill, not everybody wants to see how fast they can go up every hill when fully loaded, and when I say fully loaded the Ford and Ram can move a lot more, without screaming the engine.

How many Duramaxs are known for going near a half million miles anyway?

How about some of the other things about trucks? GM is just getting the picture their interiors need work. Their 4x4s are low slung highway cruisers. They need more space to turn compared to Ram and Ford. The joke is, you buy a Allison that comes in a GM.

Lol, Johnny Doe calls GM trucks 1500 breadwinners, more like bread carriers. Low slung, sports car type magazines like them cause they corner good with 55 series tires, that are also crap on any surface but concrete. Bumper and air dam dig into the ground on any place not perfect. They look like bricks.

Talk of 8 speeds? Yeah, just for 6.2 premium burning and high priced trucks! The price on those will go up again...

Aren't you glad Ram and a select few others are sorting most the few small 8 speed problems out before you have one?

About the only thing they can come up with is a cargo security system, bed lights, and a bumper step, in a truck you sit off center to steering wheel in, you must pay to get storage areas behind back seats, small glove box, gotta be 5'10 plus to reach the dipstick, and just made their trucks as quiet inside as the competition, 5 years later, that sell at highly discounted rates and GM went back to high incentives, cause it's the only way they can sell that many....by being low bidder.

Posted by: TRX-4 Tom | Jul 31, 2014 7:49:19 AM

He is probably the biggest RamTard on this site....a 100% pure Ram Troll.

Posted by: TRX-4 Tom Is A RamTard | Jul 31, 2014 7:52:25 AM

@Tom,
Have you ever tried to focus your energy at something other than bashing GM's trucks?
You're Ram guy. Why do you care so much about what GM does or does not?

Posted by: Gregory J. | Jul 31, 2014 8:26:04 AM

I'm a Duramax owner but not a brand guy. I've owned them all (nearly). I hope for GM's sake that they get this new HD right. I think GM finally has a good CEO but these I ignition lawsuits are serious. When the dust settles the lawsuits alone could cost over $1 Billion. Then they have to pay for these recalls. Stock prices will tumble. As long as GM survives this, I'd buy there stock at the bottom.