Frieda Vizel spent her childhood imagining the world outside of her devout religious community. It wasn’t until she finally left, with her five-year-old son Seth, that she realized she would need to reimagine everything all over again.

This week we are continuing our conversation on how to talk to kids about race and racism, especially when you’re uncomfortable talking about it with grown ups. Writer Eula Biss joins us to help us unpack the complicated forces inside our heads that hold us back.