I stumbled upon this blog accidentaly last week and was amazed by the amount of information put by GG and the enthusiasm of everyone.

I have a small terrace garden in Bangalore (behind IIMB) and have mainly been growing roses. Fell in love with them a few years back when I was staying in Jayanagar. Now have about 50 of them in pots. They seem to love the light that the terrace provides. Its been fully organic; haven't used a pesticide or a fertilizer in 4 years. Also, experimented a lot with container types and soil. Can't say I have found the right mix.

A few months back tried chillies and tomatoes. Had one crop, but now the plants are all dead. The chilly continues, but a little weak; guess it needs a larger pot and better feed.

regards

kvs

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geekgardener

Bangalore, India

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December 6, 2010 - 5:16 pm

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Hello KVS,

Welcome to this forum and I am very happy to hear about your experience with roses. I am sure you will be helping us out with our rose queries.

Its a very small world. I stay behind IIMB as well(actually near vijaya bank layout).

See you around.

GG

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madhavi

hyderabad

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December 6, 2010 - 6:06 pm

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Hello kvs

maybe you can send us some tips on organic rose growing. I have few in soil but not doing so good planning to shift them on to pots - no pest but inconsistant flowering, all the leaves seem to fall off. the suckers see to grow faster than the actual plant. I kep cutting the suckers off but they keep comming back

thanks for your help

madhavi

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geekgardener

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December 6, 2010 - 6:56 pm

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Sorry to hijack your question to KVS. Sometimes suckers are confused with Basal canes. Basal canes come from or above the graft/bud joiint. Anything that comes beneath that is sucker.

There is a post I have written with pics. Search for Basal canes in this site.

I will now let kvs answer your question.

GG

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terraceroses

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December 7, 2010 - 10:24 am

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Hi Madhavi,

There is tons of information on the net about rose growing but pretty much a lot of it is not relevant to Indian conditions as they are tropical. Hence, I had to try and figure out what works best. I tried to summarize my observations below and if you have more suggestions, welcome. I think my learning is quite incomplete

Soil

- I have tried mixes of vermiculite, cocopeat and compost but did not have much success with this. Adapted from Mels mix, but somehow the roses did not like this too much.

- Malis or gardeners prefer to use only cow/horse manure and red soil tightly packed in with some sand for the base. I found that this causes the pots to become very heavy and also when it is time for repotting, it means that you really need some rippling muscles. I have some pots like this but they are quite difficult to manage. Over time, the red soil tends to become hard and aeration is a problem.

- Going fully with cocopeat. This makes the pots quite light, but then I don't have a drip irrigation system set up. Some roses do quite well. The problem is that as the rose canes shoot up, it becomes top heavy and the pot can tip over.

- The mixture that I now use for most roses is a mix of red soil, compost(or manure if it is fully composted) and coco peat (1:1:1). The mixture does not become that hard and its quite a good weight and tends to hold water for a good period (2-3 days on max a mug of water).

Feeding

- Roses are very heavy feeders. In pots, they tend to use up the nutrients quite fast. You need to supplement the soil with some feed. The commonly available Rosemix in many shops in Bangalore (including lalbagh) is quite good. Another one is Rose Grade that is a liquid feed which I found quite good but is fairly expensive. Since the recommendation on packet is generally for a ground planted rose where they don't loose nutrients through leeching, I tend to feed more frequently (weekly) but in smaller quantities. Too much feed can kill the plants. Also, if the plant goes into shock due to lack of water, it will take some time to come out and only when it is healthy, it will start producing flowers.

Sunlight and Air

Roses need both of these to flower. At least 6 hrs of sunlight. Thats why the terrace is such a good option. Lots of sunlight.

Diseases

- I found white and light colour roses more affected by pest problems and that too mostly in summer. Removing the leaves and pruning was enough in most cases. Sometimes, plants experience die back,ie, the whole stem turns brown. Depending on how healthy the plant is and the variety, it either fights back or dies. I have a "Rhapsody in Blue" rose that fights back almost every month, whereas the "Eureka" rose just dies.

Pruning

I do it quite lightly. Resort to a little heavy pruning only when a plant has not put out new growth for some time. Most people recommend pruning to the first 5 leaflet below the flower improve flowering. My observations are the traditional method of just picking the flower itself, leads to more shoots. The larger the plant, the more chances it will have of flowering as there are more leaves producing food. I found that although many roses are not expected to grow more than 3 ft in height, in Bangalore conditions, they can grow as much as 10 ft. I have two on the ground that are at least 10 ft in height and are quite vigourous. In pots, the largest I have has grown about 6 ft.

Growth habits

Each plant/variety is different in its flowering pattern and the way it adjusts to our environment. There are some that flower almost continously through a specific period of the year, while there are others that flower in flushes (flowers every 6-8 weeks). The local rose varieties such as the paneer rose are hardier and rarely have any problems. I like these because they can be grown on their own roots are won't have sucker problems. If someone wants a cutting of these roses, I can provide. Best time is before monsoon.

Suckers

The suckers come from the native rose plant on which the hybrid is grafted. These native plants are hardier and more vigourous than the graft and given a chance would set forth shoots. There is no other way other than removing the suckers to force the grafted plant to grow. GGs post shows pictures of basal canes (the good ones). In many roses, these will be red in colour. Suckers will tend to have 7 leaflets and can grow very fast; these need to be nipped in the bud.

Check for sunlight and neighbouring plants. Sometimes more vigourous roots from other neighbouring plants can take off all the nutrients and hence your rose does not grow.

Thanks a lot for this exhaustive and very informative write up on growing roses. It speaks a lot about your expertise in growing roses.

With your permission, I would like to make a post out of this and put it up on the front page of this blog. I thikn It will be useful to many.

It will be great if you could put this info in a document with relevant pictures in it and send it to me @ admin@geekgardener.in.

I will put a post and attribute due credits to you whereever necessary.

Thanks

GG

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Raman

Bangalore

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December 8, 2010 - 2:04 pm

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terraceroses said:

Hi folks,

I stumbled upon this blog accidentaly last week and was amazed by the amount of information put by GG and the enthusiasm of everyone.

I have a small terrace garden in Bangalore (behind IIMB) and have mainly been growing roses. Fell in love with them a few years back when I was staying in Jayanagar. Now have about 50 of them in pots. They seem to love the light that the terrace provides. Its been fully organic; haven't used a pesticide or a fertilizer in 4 years. Also, experimented a lot with container types and soil. Can't say I have found the right mix.

A few months back tried chillies and tomatoes. Had one crop, but now the plants are all dead. The chilly continues, but a little weak; guess it needs a larger pot and better feed.

regards

kvs

geekgardener said:

Sorry to hijack your question to KVS. Sometimes suckers are confused with Basal canes. Basal canes come from or above the graft/bud joiint. Anything that comes beneath that is sucker.

There is a post I have written with pics. Search for Basal canes in this site.

I will now let kvs answer your question.

GG

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Raman

Bangalore

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December 8, 2010 - 3:02 pm

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Hi Folks,

The organic way of growing roses or for any
flowering plant as given under:

Put the above mix in a bucket of water so
that all the cakes get mixed up and submerged in water. It will start to froth
in 4 days time.Cover the bucket. It will be smelly and put it away in balcony or
terrace or garage. Sometimes you may see lots of worms if you don't use
insecticide. you can add insecticide as and when you see the worms. Don't
bother. It will die as you mix it up with soil later.

Filter the frothy mixture into another bucket with a cotton cloth.
This filtrate will be the concentrated mix. You can dilute the concentrate with
water (1:10).

You can also use the un dissolved cake mix.

This mix is very good for roses and other
flowering shrubs. You can store the concentrate and use it once in 15
days.

These cakes are also available
in New Tharangepet, near city market area of Bangalore. But I don't know
whether it will be fresh or not. Always use freshly crushed cakes because it
contains residual oil which is very essential for rapid growth and soil texture
is improved. The above mix will encourage lots of biological activity in soil
which will eventually fuel nitrogen fixing bacteria.

I am sure it will increase number of blooms
and it's size.

Overall if you use inorganic fertilizer the soil life is reduced,
no biological activity and expensive. Using organic fertilizer the soil texture
is improved and lots of bacterial activity will fuel the healthy plant and soil and it is cheap.

Thanks

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terraceroses

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December 9, 2010 - 12:15 pm

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Hi Raman,

I will try this out. Can you give the share the name of the oil mill in Hoskote (maybe some directions would help). Do you know of any other alternatives within Bangalore where we can get these cakes fresh? The local names of cakes would be helpful too. How much do you pay for them?

Thanks

kvs

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Raman

Bangalore

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December 11, 2010 - 12:35 pm

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Hi,

The name of the mill is Venkateshawara Oil Mill. Avery small shop with crushing machine. A crew of 3 people only. This shop was referred to me by our pest control guy. Go near Hoskote bus stop then ask for this shop. I think, it is not very difficult. I don't know any other shop apart from this. Please let me know if you find one, I am also searching for near my place. Good luck to you.

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terraceroses

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December 14, 2010 - 9:50 am

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Hi Raman,

Found Neem cake and Pongamia cake (Honge) in Varsha enterprises. He prices it at Rs 20/- kg. These are dried cakes not fresh ones.

Thanks

kvs

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madhavi

hyderabad

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December 14, 2010 - 11:09 am

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Hello KSV and Raman

Thanks a ton for all that information, was down with cold and repair work at my house. hence the delay in my thank you note.

I have recently been adding 5,15, 15 fertilzer very weak solution once a week. Now i have lots of new growth so lets see. I do have lots of other plants like IXora and hibiscus, parijath jasmine and few more long the same line - the bed is about 2 feet wide and 15 feet long, so maybe the resources were not enough - I have only used organic manure so far and once in 6 months rose mix - so keeping my fingers crossed for a good bloom now.

Regarding the cakes not sure where to even begin to ask in HYD - so have to wait for now.

one question - old roses ie once that have single petals and also great fragrance - does any one know where to get them - if they are available - and climbing roses - will they grow in the plains like HYD.

thanks again

madhai

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Raman

Bangalore

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December 14, 2010 - 2:47 pm

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Hi KVS and Madhavi,

Glad that you got hold of oil cakes. Freshly ground cakes and dried one makes lot of difference but it doesn't mean that dried one will not work. But you can't hold to cake for long time like 6 months since you have already bought a dried one and if you hold on to another 2 or 3 months it will degenerate further. Previously there was lot of oil mills around bangalore but with the development of city some of them pushed to outskirts and some closed down. It is a sad thing to happen. Will you please check around Ulsoor because there used to be one there. If I happen to know any definitely I will let you know and meanwhile I will check my pest control guy who referred to Oil mill near Hoskote. In Hoskote I bought oil cake 2 years ago for Rs.12/- per kg(pongomia/gingely).

For madhavi's query you can add 1/2 teaspoon magnesium sulphate so that you will get lots of basal canes in addition to cakes or rose mix. I have not tried so far with magnesium sulphate (Epsom Salt).Do you get oil cakes in your city if so use it, you will see the difference for yourself. Also you can collect all your kitchen vegetable peels,fruits skin,dried leaves and flowers etc, put it in a waste drum add little earthworm and cover it with sand and soil. Keep on adding till the drum is 75% full. Once in a while stir it and spray little water to keep it moist. Place the drum in a shady place. In 2 months the above mix will decompose to 50%. You ready to use a very rich home made manure.

Not necessary you should use only compost drum it can be little masonary built holing tank or even big flower pot.If possible try to remove some of earthworms for your future use.

Anything to hold on the above mentioned organic waste will do.

Regarding the single petal rose flowers, only thing that closely resembles as to my knowledge is panner rose. It can be grown easily in climatic conditions of Hyderabad or chennai. There are other varieties of fragrant roses like double delight and some of Hybrid Teas but i don't remember the name. I don't know these can be grown in hot climate. I don't have any idea about climbing roses.

Very soon I will post my homegrown roses and hibiscus. Photos being captured from 2007 to 2010.

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Revathi

Gurgaon near Delhi

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December 14, 2010 - 6:59 pm

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Hi all

Interesting thread and lots of info about growing roses. But one small doubt - what is pongamia cake called in Tamil or Hindi? What nutrients do these different cakes have? I know that neem cake is a natural pesticide. but do not know much abt groundnut, gingelly and pongamia cake.

Thanks

Revathi

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geekgardener

Bangalore, India

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December 14, 2010 - 7:00 pm

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Just to add, I have tried using Magnesium sulphate and it works wonders. YOu get plenty of Basal canes and the plants look lot greener.

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VS

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December 14, 2010 - 8:53 pm

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Raman & KVS ,

Thanks a lot for your very informative posts. Started with some rose plants in pots couple of months ago. As of now they seem to be doing well. Your posts would be very helpful to me in future.

Madhavi,

I know of some old oil mills in Hyd, but the probelm is they are more then 20 Kms away from our location ( in sultan bazar, kachiguda areas). Moreover not sure if they wud have these cakes. Will check with them if I happen to be visit that part of the city.

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Raman

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December 14, 2010 - 10:15 pm

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Hi GG,

I am giving below the links for more info on Pongomia cakes. These trees are quite common in bangalore. The seeds are little oval in shape and taken to mills for crushing.