Just keep in mind a Resolute-esque mature Transformers shouldn't be about the blood and bodycount, but have adult-oriented writing with complicated subjects you don't want to go into in a TF that's for kids too..of course, if there's next to that some graphic violence..so be it.

How many miscellaneous Cobras were killed? Were there as many Autobots littering the battlefield?

So yeah- lets bring on a resolute-worthy Transformers. It was good then... but hopefully wouldn't be toned down now.

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if your going to make a series as opposed to a 1 off movie your going to need to keep a decent number of bots and cons alive for a fairly long while or you will be constantly be introducing fresh cannon fodder

So people are now saying the pointless death of G1 characters and killing of OP in TF the movie was a 'good thing' instead of documented to be one of the biggest and most devastating mistakes to the transformers franchise pretty much ever?

As much as we all love TF:TM, it was by all accounts a disaster and they were killing characters to shift toy inventory and it backfired. Which is why prime basically will never die again and Rodimus will never be boss hog.

Yeah, TF movie's killing of characters was not well-received or good in any way. Bad thing to compare to.

So people are now saying the pointless death of G1 characters and killing of OP in TF the movie was a 'good thing' instead of documented to be one of the biggest and most devastating mistakes to the transformers franchise pretty much ever?

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Yup. I think you are in the minority of opinion holders.

The bold and gritty nature of TF:TM gave Transformers it's lasting power. I fail to see how it was Transformer's biggest mistake.

It was a terrible thing, they weren't even good deaths nor were they consistent within the series, all of a sudden one shot is enough to kill characters that have taken immense amounts of damage before, and there's no explanation as to WHY they die now. And no Prime saying "We don't have enough Energon to power a full scale assault" does not equal all the Autobots are weak and can be killed instantly.

It was a horribly written, crap, shallow move, done only to get rid of the old characters so the kiddies could like and want the toys of the new ones. Expect no less from a movie that was an extended toy commercial.

I actually think the violent deaths are the sole reason a few people like the 86 movie, nothing more to it. Buckets of blood man!

So people are now saying the pointless death of G1 characters and killing of OP in TF the movie was a 'good thing' instead of documented to be one of the biggest and most devastating mistakes to the transformers franchise pretty much ever?

As much as we all love TF:TM, it was by all accounts a disaster and they were killing characters to shift toy inventory and it backfired. Which is why prime basically will never die again and Rodimus will never be boss hog.

Yeah, TF movie's killing of characters was not well-received or good in any way. Bad thing to compare to.

It never ceases to boggle my mind that there are adults that watch kids entertainment and complain that it isn't "mature" enougth when they could be spending that time watching some of the many high quality shows that are actually made for people with hair on thier parts.

It never ceases to boggle my mind that there are adults that watch kids entertainment and complain that it isn't "mature" enougth when they could be spending that time watching some of the many high quality shows that are actually made for people with hair on thier parts.

It was a terrible thing, they weren't even good deaths nor were they consistent within the series, all of a sudden one shot is enough to kill characters that have taken immense amounts of damage before, and there's no explanation as to WHY they die now. And no Prime saying "We don't have enough Energon to power a full scale assault" does not equal all the Autobots are weak and can be killed instantly.

It was a horribly written, crap, shallow move, done only to get rid of the old characters so the kiddies could like and want the toys of the new ones. Expect no less from a movie that was an extended toy commercial.

I actually think the violent deaths are the sole reason a few people like the 86 movie, nothing more to it. Buckets of blood man!

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I don't think that's quite fair. Yes, it's clearly documented by everyone involved that the deaths were planned for commercial reasons, but that doesn't mean that they were all badly done; all that grief over Prime's death wasn't just to do with the character going away, it was also because his finale was staged, performed and executed in a very dramatic and moving way. Same with Starscream and Megatron's end; both of them got the finales that the characters had always been building to and deserved, so those deaths felt organic and natural.

Once you get beyond those central characters, though, I'm inclined to agree with you. The Autobot shuttle deaths and the end of the Insecticons and Seekers look flashy and dramatic, but are really quite hollow and cynical when you pick away at them; by the time you get to the likes of Wheeljack, Windcharger and Huffer just dying off screen for no reason, then any claims of "mature storytelling" fly right out of the window. But they weren't all that bad, is my point.

So people are now saying the pointless death of G1 characters and killing of OP in TF the movie was a 'good thing' instead of documented to be one of the biggest and most devastating mistakes to the transformers franchise pretty much ever?

As much as we all love TF:TM, it was by all accounts a disaster and they were killing characters to shift toy inventory and it backfired. Which is why prime basically will never die again and Rodimus will never be boss hog.

Yeah, TF movie's killing of characters was not well-received or good in any way. Bad thing to compare to.

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i was seriously unhappy about the deaths of so many valiant autobots in TF:TM and i still am

By "lasting power" I mean that here we are in 2009, on a Transformers fanboy site, awaiting the next live action movie and next animated series.

The serious tone helped audiences take Transformers seriously enough to stick with it.

Otherwise, you have GOBOTS.

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Sorry, but no. The Transformers movie bombed hard to audiences. The reason you're on a Transformer forum in 2009 with a new movie coming up is not because of the succes of the Transformers 1985 movie, or how people took Transformers serious.

Transformers took a deep dive down from that point on, and only got really back onto the radar in the nineties with new shows like Beast Wars, later on the Japanese shows.

Nobody gived a damn about Transformers. Only the hardcore fans sticked with it on a level that is actually noteworthy. Not saying that Transformers sold bad between then and now, but it was definitely not as cool as it was in 1985 and now.

Get your facts straight, please.
The Transformers: The Movie is a cult hit. Held highly by hardcore fans, but made no impact on other people the way you make it sound.

Sorry, but no. The Transformers movie bombed hard to audiences. The reason you're on a Transformer forum in 2009 with a new movie coming up is not because of the succes of the Transformers 1985 movie, or how people took Transformers serious.

Transformers took a deep dive down from that point on, and only got really back onto the radar in the nineties with new shows like Beast Wars, later on the Japanese shows.

Nobody gived a damn about Transformers. Only the hardcore fans sticked with it on a level that is actually noteworthy. Not saying that Transformers sold bad between then and now, but it was definitely not as cool as it was in 1985 and now.

Get your facts straight, please.
The Transformers: The Movie is a cult hit.

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This.

I really don't think people who were not there realise how dark 1988-1992 was. Remember... all of us KIDS who loved TFs were growing into middle/high school. The franchise was producing 'non-transforming' toys with no show or media to promote it so new kids were not picking it up. The franchise was dying and only on life support due to japanese series. It isn't like it was now where there were kids in the core demo keeping the franchise alive.

Then we had G2 which was life support. We went close to 8 years of a really dark future to the franchise until BW hit and Hasbro came back with our first All original standardized toy-line combined with show. Ever since then, Hasbro has been able to capture the core demopgraphic and keep re-capturing the next batch of kids with the transformers brand. This simply wasn't the case during the 'masters' years where we had no show and were getting japanese figures or G2 years.

The movie was a disaster for G1 and transformers in general. By no objective standard is it labeled a 'good thing' in the history of the franchise.

Apparently I am in the minority about wanting something more grwon up. I suppose that's fine... but it doesn't really change the fact that TF:TM 86 DID show what GI JOE Resolute would show 20+ years later. The hows and why's don't matter- they showed it. It was a seminal moment in Transformers at that time: both a blessing and a curse- each person has to decide for themselves which it is for them.

Oh, and BTW- G1 really isn't dead either.

Now, for those who thought that the deaths were wrong and out of place- why aren't you complaining about the Bayverse films?