I was fortunate to be at the Vermont State Capitol in Montpelier, VT, today, Tuesday, September 8, 2009, when State Auditor, Tom Salmon announced that he was switching from the Democrat to Republican party. The Citizen Wells blog has posted a longer video coverage of the event and here is an article from Vermontbiz.com that provides more background information on Tom Salmon.

“Vermont Auditor Tom Salmon switches to Republican Party”

“Vermont Auditor of Accounts Tom Salmon, who was rebuffed by the Democratic leadership last spring, announced today that he was switching parties and will join the Republican Party. Salmon won the position of state auditor as a Democrat in 2006 when he beat one-term incumbent Republican Randy Brock. That race saw Brock apparently win re-election in a very tight race, before a re-count gave the race to Salmon by 102 votes. Salmon cited the lack of fiscal responsibility among legislative leaders during the debate over the state budget. Salmon had offered to mediate discussions between Republican Governor James Douglas and the Democratically controlled Legislature, but was turned down by Speaker of the House Shap Smith. He said the Republicans are better able to manage the fiscal matters of the state, as represented by Governor Douglas.

Salmon further said he will likely run for re-election for Auditor, but there is “a 10 percent chance,” he will run for governor or lieutenant governor instead. Several Republicans are deferring their decisions on 2010 until Lieutenant Governor Brian Dubie decides what, if any, position he will run for. Dubie has indicated he is considering a run for governor. Douglas has already stated he will not seek re-election and will not run for any office in 2010. Salmon made his announcement at the State House shortly after 11 am on Tuesday September 8, 2009.

Salmon, 46, has served in Iraq for long tours of duty in the US Navy Reserve while also holding the post of auditor. Thomas M Salmon is the son of the former Vermont Governor Thomas P Salmon, who served from 1973-1977 as a Democrat. The elder Salmon served as a surrogate during his son’s re-election campaign because serving military cannot also campaign for office. Salmon met little resistance in being re-elected last year.

“Vermont Business Magazine conducted a Q&A with Tom Salmon December 2007 with Robert Smith. In that interview he explained why he ran for auditor:

“I ran for state auditor, because as a Rockingham Selectman, I had moved from a simmer to a boil about how fiscal management was occurring in the state. I really didn’t think that anyone was taking responsibility for the fiscal management of the parts of the state. Prior to being a selectman, I go back to December 2005. I’m a Navy Reservist, a Seabee, construction battalion, dirt sailors – we’re never on a ship, so when people see us in our greens they say, ‘Look mommy, it’s an Army man!’ I was in Gulfport, Mississippi, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. That situation moved me to want to commit to public service. I decided when I came home that I was going to run for the select board in Rockingham. The finances were a mess, the morale was not good, the divisive situation over buying the dam – you were here so you know.””

Here is a copy of the letter Salmon sent to his supporters:

“September 5, 2009

Dear Friend,

It is an honor to serve as Auditor for the State of Vermont. In 2006, I was elected as a Democrat. In 2008, I was re-elected on the Democratic/Republican ticket. 2010 will be different.

I am changing my political affiliation to align myself with the party closest to my core beliefs. It is my belief that the VT Republican party is closest to accepting the realities of our times; and is therefore the party best equipped to manage the very real and troubling economic and social conditions which confront us not only today, but in the coming decade.

As many of you know, in the face of the enormous fiscal crisis, I have sounded the alarm for new thinking, responsible budgeting, meaningful long-term planning and painful prioritization.

When I returned home from Iraq, I witnessed first-hand a budget process rife with deficiencies and dysfunction. There was little balance in the debate.

As a Certified Public Accountant, I recently completed my required Ethics course for re-licensing. The Professional Code of Conduct demands that I act with integrity, objectivity and independence. As Auditor, I have preached that Vermont is on an unsustainable track we cannot tax ourselves out of.

I believe the majority of Vermonters do not want to see tax increases as a consequence of poor planning. However, without major restructuring of human services, corrections management and public education (which together account for some 75% of our expenditures) we are going to find that situation unavoidable. Removing even greater sums of capital out of our job-creating private sector and the budgets of Vermont families will only hasten the ill effects of the current crisis.

We all watch a healthcare reform movement focused on increased access rather than A) addressing the root causes of the problem B) fixing Medicaid and Medicare or C) promoting incentives and personal responsibility. The big losers are our young people, the vulnerable elderly population and the viability of Vermont’s 1778 motto of “Freedom and Unity.”

I am a believer in the America of hard work and “get oneself upstream” with a combination of personal commitment and external support.

I’m not a believer that all of our future tax dollars should go to interest on debt or “education, medication and incarceration.” In the current form of these primarily government-controlled expenditures, this is a path leading to a dangerous imbalance of our “Freedom and Unity.” Economic freedom is an essential component in achieving and maintaining political freedom. Over the more than 200 years of our nation’s founding, too many of our fine soldiers have died for the protection of these freedoms.

Thank you for the opportunity to serve you with full commitment and transparency. I promise to do my best to perform the job Vermonters have elected me to do.

Thanks Gianni and all.
As many of you know, I still cover the lawsuit initiatives on eligibility.
However, the thrust of my efforts is moving toward and beyond the 2010 elections.
We must continue to make congressmen aware that we are watching and that we can vote them out.

It is very exciting that a politician publicly headed to the right.I am wondering what is Vermont like when compared to New Hampshire. I am from the deep south not faniliar with the North too much. I saw a u-tube with lumbering outdoor types running through the statehouse and hollering at the politicians. Are they like that in Vermont also?
Does anyone know if Orly gets stuck with the suck magistrate judge that she wanted to avoid if its a jury trial the people will hear the case right? I just hate to see her get a bought judge.

Barack Obama will cement the new co-operative relationship between the US and the United Nations this month when he becomes the first American president to chair its 15-member Security Council.
Drudge Report

This speech from Obama makes me so ill, just like everything else that comes from this man’s mouth.
There is duplicity, false sincerity, and a domineering stance because of the person he is, not his words. This text read at face value but not even offend, but a delivery from him changes the context and meaning.

JeffM @ 6:04: and me thinks just maybe HRC’s fine with not being WHITEY POTUS…but will gladly settle for being POTUN, once BHO gets tossed under the bus.
‘whuddayathink about them apples?!’
I used to think Bill wanted that, but she’d have him by the you-know-whats…

Thanks Gianni and all.
As many of you know, I still cover the lawsuit initiatives on eligibility.
However, the thrust of my efforts is moving toward and beyond the 2010 elections.
We must continue to make congressmen aware that we are watching and that we can vote them out.”

Interesting. I hope it’s still o.k. if I post part of the WND article by Jerome Corsi:

“A California judge today tentatively scheduled a trial for Jan. 26, 2010, for a case that challenges Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president based on questions over his qualifications under the requirements of the U.S. Constitution.

“If the case actually goes to arguments before U.S. District Judge David Carter, it will be the first time the merits of the dispute have been argued in open court, according to one of the attorneys working on the issue.

“In a highly anticipated hearing today before Carter, several motions were heard, including a resolution to long-standing questions about whether attorney Orly Taitz properly served notice on the defendants, which she had.

“In a second ruling, Carter ordered that attorney Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation can be added to the case to represent plaintiffs Wiley Drake and Markham Robinson, who had been removed by an earlier court order. Drake, the vice presidential candidate for the American Independent Party, and Robinson, the party’s chairman, also were restored to the case.

[snip]

“But the judge did not immediately rule on Taitz’ motion to be granted discovery – that is the right to see the president’s still-concealed records. Nor did Carter rule immediately on a motion to dismiss the case, submitted by the U.S. government, following discussion over Taitz’ challenge to the work of a magistrate in the case.

“The judge did comment that if there are legitimate constitutional questions regarding Obama’s eligibility, they need to be addressed and resolved.

“Carter ordered a hearing Oct. 5 on the motion to dismiss and ordered arguments submitted on the issue of discovery.

“If the case survives that challenge, a pretrial hearing has been scheduled for Jan. 11 and the trial for two weeks later.

“The case would be the first time, according to Kreep, that the actual merits of the dispute will have been heard in open court. A multitude of such disputes have been rejected out of hand by various state and federal courts. Even the U.S. Supreme Court repeatedly has rejected urgent appeals to hear the evidence.

“The suit alleges Obama is actually a citizen of Indonesia and “possibly still citizen of Kenya, usurping the position of the president of the United States of America and the commander-in-chief.”

SueK—hope you are feeling better.
If you were allergic to the stuff, I fully understand that. Important thing is, as you say,
get yourself checked out. Do you now have to
eat yogurt to get back on track? Take care
and are you taking liquid—maybe flushing
the stuff out would help. Best wishes, Maddie:)

If you have a virus, or viral infection, you can get flu like symptoms very quickly after taking the silver.

The reason: Because the silver is attacking the virus.

There is a name for this, and I can’t remember it, but I read it, and I talked to one of the silver makers on the phone about a few months ago, who told me, if you have a virus, and take the silver, you will get sick shortly after, because the silver is killing the virus, and it shocks the body.

Why hasn’t the MSM demanded that this issue take center stage? Why are all the media dogs burrying this story? He has sealed his BC, College, medical SSR, records, etc.. And now he sits in the most powerful seat in the World …. and he hasn’t been vetted ? What is going on Glenn?

I truly think that my medical conditions prevent me from taking this, but that’s not to say it’s not right for others.

They flushed me out in the hospital (3 bags of lactated ringers!) and gave me pain, anti-clot and anti-nausea shots. I look like a junkie :( . I continue to drink pure water as part of the rehydration process, and yogurt with probiotics to get me back to where I need to be..

Val, I agree, 9/11 conspiracy theories infuriate me.
The building next to the towers that was brought down -had to come down; it was too dangerous. I know the fireman working down there -I’ve heard their stories. The plane that came down in PA -of course it disintegrated.
South, please these theories make no sense.
It would be a lot easier to drill off the shores of Florida or Alaska as opposed to starting a war & killing thousands of our own people. Poppies? they can be grown here.

Not to get *too* personal here, but I’m being evaluated for MS (90% chance I have it, and I’m no kid!) and I do have confirmed lung disease, in addition to previous intestinal surgeries and a cadre of other maladies I won’t get into.

My system is so compromised at this point, that some things that may help actually work to my detriment.

I think my best bet is to stick with the vitamin and mineral supplements I know are OK for me, and check with the medical professionals if there’s something I’d like to try.

Autoimmune diseases react to products like colloidal silver (The South-MS was mentioned in that piece you sent) so in order not to compromise myself further, I’ll stick with the tried and true!

##############################

Thanks to all friends at CW who have been concerned about me. I love you guys :).

They had that 9/11 theory debunking story on Nat Geo a couple of days ago, and I watched the show. The representatives for the truthers had some pretty weak arguments, and some far fetched excuses for missing evidence. In other words, they looked like fools. Totally debunked.

I think my best bet is to stick with the vitamin and mineral supplements I know are OK for me, and check with the medical professionals if there’s something I’d like to try.

===== SueK—-You are right on with this
statement. I hope you are NOT going to
cont. with the silver —Please!!!!!!!!!!
You got the reaction for a reason, now, you
must listen to your body and not repeat it—
just my unmedical opinion as a “friend” on
this blog. Take care and check in with us
OFTEN—that’s an order, Tweety:):)

No, Maddie, done with the silver but as The South says, it may have been doing what it was designed to do; my reaction to that, however, was violent (and I’m sure that the hospital bill will be violent, too..)

There appears to be open dissent within the ranks. That is not surprising, but what is is that those close to this president have yet to figure him out. They say he’s not bold enough, he doesn’t listen to what others say. Really? Oh my!

Bold has nothing to do with it. Neither does not listening.

Obama has a carefully crafted agenda, that is revised daily, hourly, and very carefully. I’m quite certain that no one, including even Michelle knows his full intentions.

Bold would require being guided by core general principles , the strength of one’s convictions, and the preparedness for defeat, as it applies to policy decision making.

Listening would require a temporary suspension of the above.

Obama’s agenda is not about policy making. It is about holding and weilding power, in whatever form it takes.

Decisions regarding that cannot be bold and they certainly do not involve listening to others.

SueK-I think you are correct in sticking with what works. 2 of my girl friends both Irish descent have the same kind of issues that you do. Medication seems to work in reverse with them. Always better to be safe than sorry, and I think once a person gets sick from something it is almost impossible to get it down, even the smell will make you sick.

If it is true, that on Oct 5, if Carter tosses the motion to dismiss, and allows discovery, what will happen?

If that means that Orly will get subpoena powers to get the documents requested, then a lot more is going to happen politically between Oct and Jan, than merely preparation for the trial.

Because we will find out if there is any motive for Obama to be hiding the information…

If it is found out that he used other passports to get student aide at Occidental, Columbia or Harvard…then politically you’ll see his number drop precipitously…

If not, his numbers will rise, as his opponents claim he was maligned and they will try to sweep the NBC issue under the rug…

Personally, I see no reason for Carter to schedule a trial in Jan., the case is too important, and believe that the country is being cleverly manipulated through the courts to keep waiting for lawyers to save us, and thus give time for Obama to put everything in place to sieze total power.

In all, I believe the results are dim and bad…

Carter, as someone said, was appointed by Clinton: anyone with a drop of common sense does not put a case of usurpation on hold for 4 months, while the usurper can do more evil ….

Carter seems to me just a very slick operative: and I predict in the end he will not rule on the NBC issue…leaving Zero in power…

I respect your privacy and have kept my comments in general terms so as to not trigger self-disclosure.

But your medical history supports what I am saying. That is, severe reactions can result from a number of causes. It is not enough to say, the intended purpose of said product is x. It must always be understood in the context of the person consuming it. That is their medical history, their genetic make-up and on and on.

Penicllin saved and continues to save
millions of lives. It also killed many because of the allergic propensities in those who took it. Unfortunately those people didn’t get a second chance.

I am excited, about Judge Carter deciding to get some answers from Obama. Obama will go down in flames, if the judge orders him to cough up a valid BC, along with, passport records, college entry records, etc. The court already has 2 Kenyan birth documents, and affidavits swearing to their validity. The evidence is going to end this nightmare, and the obots know it.

The battle, Obama will stage, to keep his “stuff” hidden, is going to be fun to watch, so will his resignation. Wait a minute he can’t resign, he was never the legal president!

CW, please cover this trial, in judge Carters court. This judge means business, and if he orders discovery Obama’s not going to be the president much longer, his hidden records, will be his death knell.

The thermate charge is unfounded: I read the long “scientific report” the 9/11 truthers put out: on the face of it the allegation can be dismissed because for that amount of material to be trucked to the 2 towers, would require lots of trucks and could not be hidden on the floors where it had to be.

What did happen explains what was found.

You had a structure designed only for the stresses that normally would be experienced; never for an attack by airliners full of fuel.

The resultant fires melted the structural supports enough to begin a catastrophic collapse, which pancaked the initial layers like dominos falling; in the direction down, there is naturall acceleration…so the pancacking turned to demolition and then to a flurry of waterfall like disintegration…

On the way down you had some unique processes take place, with the mixing of so much differentiated material, including live human bodies…the resulting dust has chemical properties not seen before, becasue we have not seen such a process before…and the resulting dust has what one would expect from such a process…its not thermate, its organic material (human bodies mostly) attached to particles of the buiding structure…note that the resulting dust is grey, like the dust of the Moon, this is is a natural result from undifferentiated disintegration in my opinion…

Try to find some objective material scientists and don’t take 9/12’s word for face value…

I’m outside the age range for MS but have been showing some diffuse symptoms since 2003. 5-10% of MS patients show a *negative* spinal tap (I had that &^% test this spring) and I’m in that group. I’m told that a positive spinal tap most often occurs at the outset of the disease and since I’ve been symptomatic for nearly 6 years, the spinal tap was negative.

Since this is a very slow-mover, I’m being monitored closely by the best docs.

So far, my mobility is not severely compromised, but I do have other, sometimes startling symptoms which I can only describe as ‘interesting.’ I’m still able to work and do most of the things I’ve been doing.

Civis Naturaliter Natus don’t forget this is not the only case, there are hundreds more. It also gives time to find more evidence one never knows where that is going to come from. I think the longer it is stalled the angrier people are going to be. Obama’s numbers are in freefall, due mainly to him, the people are fighting back and growing stronger everyday. I saw on the news tonight representatives are coming back from their town hall meetings and are changing their positions on health care. The people are being heard, and the representatives are starting to listen. 9/12 should be very interesting in DC.

Kind of funny if you ask me, how a Boeing could hit the ground, and only leave a 10′x20′ ft hole, and “NO AIRPLANE PARTS” visible anywhere.

For those of you who don’t understand, or better yet, refuse to understand, let me lay it out for you.

There is a shadow gov’t that runs the corporation called the USA. This shadow gov’t consist mainly of bankers or owners of banks. Their main goal in life is power and control.

In 2001 or before, they decided they wanted to take over the poppy fields in Afghanistan because of the opium $$$$$ and they wanted to take over the oil fields in Iraq $$$$$.

They can’t just invade those countries and steel all those resources in plain sight without gaining overwhelming “public support”.

How do they gain public support? They can’t just come out and ask the American people on nationwide news if we’ll let them invade Afghanistan and Iraq to steel those resources now can they?

*******************************************
South—-If the plane went nose first straight into the ground then there would be little debris on the ground….also….I have read a lot of witness statements and stories about this flight….Many brave Americans contacted their loved ones before taking the plane down and told their stories about exactly what was going to happen….this was the plane that was going to crash into the White House…..these Patriots brought it down and it is very possible it left nothing but a huge crater….as to the poppy and oil…..much is still there so I don’t believe that is why we went to war….of course you can believe any conspiracy theory you want…..what you say can’t be proven though so….I’m not buying it and evidently Van Jones couldn’t prove it either….otherwise why did he resign if he signed a legitimate petition!!! This is such a conspiracy theory from the radical left that want to take down Bush and Cheney any way they can!!

BTW…read the book….Let’s Roll by Todd Beamer’s widow….she spoke with him as he and others were plotting how to stop them from crashing the planed into the White House…Todd was on flight 93 as they were deciding what to do….her true story is not a conspiracy and this plane was really taken over by terrorist who don’t like Americans….these 9/11 truthers are just Anti-Americans who want to take our country over with their Communist ways!!!

Guys and gals more good news
Natural Born Citizen ^ | 9-8-09 | Leo Donofrio/UCONN Research Team
[The research team from UCONN – UNDEAD REVOLUTION – have published “Part 1″ of their exhaustive research on the historical meaning of the “natural born citizen” POTUS eligibility requirement. I am republishing their report here as my first guest blog. Please click through to their blog for the full report. I am simultaneously publishing my analysis of an incredible find by the UR team which firmly establishes that Chester Arthur’s British birth was not known to the public while he was President and therefore sets no historical or legal precedent for Obama. Now, for your historical education, the Natural Born…

I sure hope you are right. I think millions are waiting for the right circumstances.

My concern is the timing. It is deferred till January 2010 and the world may be a different place, where such an event will vanish in its importance.

I know I’m not alone when I say I have a looming sense, whether it is financial, political of both of vast changes that could easily establish events such as today with Carter, obsolete. Maybe you disagree.

Yes, I’ve heard that the people who live in the northern climes, especially the British Isles are especially prone, but no one knows why! Lack of sunlight in winter, perhaps?

And yes, medication can work in reverse. I have to laugh each time I fill a prescription and read the little patient info sheet. It usually says something like: ‘1/10 of 1% of people will experience (this) symptom.’ I always seem to be in that group!

I think that those of us with multiple medical issues need to determine what will and won’t work for us after all, even though we all belong to the human race, our bodies are so diverse!

is there any video footage of the court case today? I sure would think with all the advance notice that someone would have filmed some of this. They say Lucas Smith was there …. anyone catch this on film?

I am excited, about Judge Carter deciding to get some answers from Obama. Obama will go down in flames, if the judge orders him to cough up a valid BC, along with, passport records, college entry records, etc. The court already has 2 Kenyan birth documents, and affidavits swearing to their validity. The evidence is going to end this nightmare, and the obots know it.

The battle, Obama will stage, to keep his “stuff” hidden, is going to be fun to watch, so will his resignation. Wait a minute he can’t resign, he was never the legal president!

CW, please cover this trial, in judge Carters court. This judge means business, and if he orders discovery Obama’s not going to be the president much longer, his hidden records, will be his death knell.
+++++++++++++
I totally agree, Bob. There is now way too much pressure on Obama and any of his records
will undoubtedly be enough “discovery” to
lead to his demise and swiftly.

South, et al: correction: 4 parts on Youtube of the Jesse interview…realizing they’re from awhile ago.
I’ve not even been a fan of Jesse, but he asked some pretty reasonable questions, IMHO…and didn’t get anything of substance in response.
——————————————————–
in my book, it’s never ‘who is right’…but ‘what is right’…and the truth seems to always find it’s way in the Light; even when it seems like it’s really dark…or it takes a long time.
——————————————————-
so: what’s up with Alex Jones ‘late breaking’?

Oops forgot to mention. Those not going to D C will be protesting at the News Station in my State. I ask you do the same. We can not stop the fight to save America. We are going against alot of money. We must fight on.

Val-I think they have already done that/or attempted to do it, but there may be people- I’m from Chicago -who have “stuff” saved for just the right opportunity-it is called insurance. Some have been known to get real nutty there copy material like this and pass it around to all their friends. Then there is the group that maybe Obama didn’t pay off enough, or 1 finds out he/she sold out cheap and someone got more. $$$ extortion. The list could go on forever. The guys sitting in Cook County slammer probably know everything and more. They have a hell of a grapevine. Reason: they are in jail for petty stuff compared to what the politicians are getting away with. This gives them a very bad attitude. If they have knowledge of Obama crimes, they would bring him down just for the pure sport of it. Their way of playing “get the government” and they would like a little respect. People think these criminals are dummies, some are very bright, misguided but some have been known to reject that life and become decent citizens. It is called guilt.

CNN – I believe this is good news about Orly. The January scheduling of something that if it gets to discovery will be really big seems reasonable to me. It will take several days/weeks to deal with. Authentication of the documents will take some time. That’s a chunk of time for a busy court in California to come up with. Obama’s people will flood the court with motions, etc. I expect an interlocutory appeal, gag order, any manner of delay tactics etc.

I certainly worry about the time that is given to Obama’s people to scrub the records, etc.

However, the other side is that military men and women are paying attention.

With each step, one more member of the military may become convinced that he or she is following orders that are in all likelihood unlawful.

Listen to yourselves people. Do not leave anything conclusive with this government. Here we have 2 arguments intermixing due to the anniversary timing.

On one hand we have people saying 9/11 was an inside job.

On the other hand we have people saying it was not an inside job, but are say their government is usurping by not vetting a candidate, protecting him with DOJ assistance, stealing money from the American people, and trying to pass bills and endoctrinate their children.

Are you referring to postpartum depression or posttraumatic stress disorder. If its the former, I believe it belongs only to half of the population. Though some men are afflicted with this too (that is when the wife gives birth).

If you’re referring to the ‘Dancing With The Czars’ thing…I only echoed what someone else had posted…it seemed worthy of a ‘re-do’…I thought it was brilliant, but I can’t take credit for it. You’d have to go back some to find the original…sorry. Not mine; but FUNNY!
————————————————-
Val…I think you hit the “daily double!”

Listening to Hannity … someone just said that Obummer should have told the children to … get a good education to get a good job that will pay you over 250K a year, because you’re going to need it to pay the taxes!!!

Venice, if Carter orders discovery, it will be over ,long before January. Obama will have to find a way to keep his history hidden, his lawyers are probably working overtime about now. Maybe he will plead the “fifth”.

Does anyone know what the turn out at the hearing was like? How many people were there? What was the mood of the attendees?

Venice @ 9:53: yeh, thanks…I think that’s the one: only I was only using as an ‘example’ to Val’s humorous banter…
btw: yeh, but the men can just (kudos to those who like ‘bumpa stickas’)
“hava beeya an fuggettabowdit…!”

Over 30 years ago I watched the house directly across the street from me burn to the ground before the FD could arrive (lots of snow on the road in a town with no plows). There were MANY “explosions”…gasoline cans, the water heater, spray cans, a propane tank. How much equipment in those buildings was capable of exploding when heated?

I was an AF brat. I have seen the remains of a high speed plane crash. If I hadn’t known what the hole in the ground was from I would not have guessed it was from a crash.
Just sayin’……..

Val @ 9:55: OR…he coulda told ‘em…
“listen up kiddies…when you’re done here, all ya need to know is how to say, ‘want fries widdat?’…you’ll only need to earn minimum wage, cause rich whitey’s gonna cover ALL your expenses…and, when the boss aint lookin’…y’all can eat all you want for FREE!!…and you KNOW eating that sh** yer gonna need all the medical help you can git!”

Sue K: When we are at our weakest, He is at his strongest. The brain is the strongest organ in the human body; it can heal the body. There is nothing wrong with your thinking, therefore, your brain is strong. You survived because He has work for you to do IMHO. So get to work! LOL. We are all grateful for your contribution to the conversation here, and that was expressed by one after another in response to your pain. God loves you and so do we, and that should be enough to sustain you for long into the future. Peace be with you…Linda

” Judge David Carter refused to hear Obama’s request for dismissal today, instead setting a hearing date for Oct. 5, since Obama’s attorneys had just filed the motion on Friday. He indicated there was almost no chance that this case would be dismissed. ”

Fernley Girl-I agree–you could hear the explosions but God knows what it was from. The buildings were huge, could have been boilers, giant computer systems. You can imagine all the stuff a big building like that might have in it.
We had lots of airplane crashes by O’Hare, each horrible in its own way and all a little bit different.

All from Orly’s blog
The judge, who is a former U.S. Marine, repeated several times that this is a very serious case which must be resolved quickly so that the troops know that their Commander in Chief is eligible to hold that position and issue lawful orders to our military in this time of war. He basically said Obama must prove his eligibility to the court! He said Americans deserve to know the truth about their President!

The two U.S. Attorneys representing Barack Obama tried everything they could to sway the judge that this case was frivolous, but Carter would have none of it and cut them off several times. Obama’s attorneys left the courtroom after about the 90 minute hearing looking defeated and nervous.

JeffM (M, as in “Mr. Sanity”?!): okay…took a look at that…got a ‘timeline for dummies’ version?! that looks overwhelming; got any pointers on how/where to start making sense of it? (I’m still a little stuck in the “Borne Identity” phase…)
grassy us. (that’s Gringo for ‘gracias!’)…

If this interpretation is accurate, it is either staged or there is a change in the wind. Perhaps Obama has disappointed his puppetmasters. After having the entire judicial system under lock and key for over a year, it’s hard to imagine any judge making such statements.

I could get you started but the bottom line it’s like a giant “North and South” novel and to get the entire grasp of complexity of the 9/11 fiasco.

I can tell you this:

1. NIST couldn’t verify their own research on how the building fell in the official analysis
2. No one can correctly explain why WTC7 fell
3. There was too much forewarning of this attack for our government to say “we didn’t know”
4. There are too many holes in the official story to even begin to take it seriously

I can honestly say I don’t know the official story on the attacks 8 years ago. The verdict is still out. But, based on all my research it’s pointing more towards a giant banking heist perpetrated by overseas enemies of the U.S. and utilized more like a modern day Pearl Harbor by certain factions in the U.S. federal government.

One may never get to the root of this. There are too many people involved to get a simple conclusion as to the who, what, and why.

JeffM-just so you know here in Florida there is a terrible problem in the Everglades. People were abandoning their pet pythons in the Glades, so with no natural predators they fulfilled the Biblical injunction and became fruitful and multiplied. They are now being captured and killed due to they are wiping out a lot of native species. That 24 hour fight between the alligator and python was not a joke it really happened. It’s really cool how they find them, those mighty hunters- beagles. This is when people decide to take the law into their own hands, and do whatever they damn well please Obama. This all was prompted by one of the pythons killed a 2 year old.

Blago “talking” on Greta tonight.
Just said getting involved with Rezko was
“boned headed” by Obama — Blago talked about Emmanuel, too. Talked about his book, the Governor. Greta wants Blago’s tapes released
and tells Blago to ask judge for them.

JeffM // September 8, 2009 at 10:19 pm
The South,
[snip]
That’s what intelligence is for. Apparently intelligence was asleep for 5 years.
[snip]
Clinton put the CIA in its coma, and refused to take out Bin Laden. But no one ever asks the question “What did Clinton know, and when did he know it?” Take a look at Clinton’s connections.

Val @ 10:44: “aw…no…Michelle, I’m so sorry; you didn’t put that in the form of a question!”
——————————————————
“…but it’s still your turn, wanna select from another category? Let’s see…there’s
‘Chicago Pals’ and ‘unnamed donors’ still on the board…name your poison…oops…um, I mean; take your pick!”

All-I think this is the person who served Obama the day of or one day before the Inauguration and he had to go throught hoops to do it.
September 8th, 2009 Great Orly. I guess my trip to serve him at the White House paid off. Pat yourself on the back – you deserve it.
I stand ready here in DC if you need my help.
You are a great American!
Sent from my BlackBerry
David A. Turner, Jr.

I’m totally new to the 911 truther stuff. I look at things eyes wide open. The facts of 911 to me seem to raise eyebrows and a puzzled looks. I think bush turned his head on this and took one for the shadow govt. I think it went further than maybe he was told. There are to many crazy things that went on.

I’m not buying it. Even with Clinton tearing down the CIA, it would take an administration in a coma not to take the warnings from nearly a dozen nations an attack was imminent and let it sit on the back burner.

Someone needs to explain to me how the CIA, a multi-million dollar agency with decades of experiance couldn’t follow up on an official warning from numerous international governments.

Wait, perhaps they did. Perhaps in the mid-90’s the CIA was snooping on several of the perpetrators in the 9/11 attacks. Perhaps Al Qaeda informants were spilling the beans on certain operations as early as 1995. Perhaps, just perhaps, this goes deeper than just an isolated incident.

venice – not only has he disappointed his puppetmasters, but he has drawn great attention
to them. Nothing like life in the precarious lane.
May all conspirators and co-conspirators whoever them maybe, wherever they may be be found out. I think you will see a lot of people coming forward. Now that the spotlight is on this people want our entire government cleaned up and fast. They can run but there is nowhere on God’s earth they can hide. Where did the Nazi’s go after World War 2, Brazil? we’re on to that one too.

I and many other concerned veterans and citizens attended the hearing today in Federal Court in Santa Ana in the lawsuit against Barack Obama to determine his eligibility to be President and Commander in Chief. About 150 people showed up, almost all in support of the lawsuit to demand that Obama release his birth certificate and other records that he has hidden from the American people.

Judge David Carter refused to hear Obama’s request for dismissal today, instead setting a hearing date for Oct. 5, since Obama’s attorneys had just filed the motion on Friday. He indicated there was almost no chance that this case would be dismissed. Obama is arguing this lawsuit was filed in the wrong court if you can believe that. I guess Obama would prefer a “kangaroo court” instead of a Federal court! Assuming Judge Carter denies Obama’s motion for dismissal, he will likely then order expedited discovery which will force Obama to release his birth certificate in a timely manner (if he has one).

The judge, who is a former U.S. Marine, repeated several times that this is a very serious case which must be resolved quickly so that the troops know that their Commander in Chief is eligible to hold that position and issue lawful orders to our military in this time of war. He basically said Obama must prove his eligibility to the court! He said Americans deserve to know the truth about their President!

The two U.S. Attorneys representing Barack Obama tried everything they could to sway the judge that this case was frivolous, but Carter would have none of it and cut them off several times. Obama’s attorneys left the courtroom after about the 90 minute hearing looking defeated and nervous.

Great day in America for the U.S. Constitution!!! The truth about Barack Obama’s eligibility will be known fairly soon – Judge Carter practically guaranteed it!

Video from the press conference after the hearing coming soon. Congratulations to plaintiffs attorney Dr. Orly Taitz! She did a great job and won some huge victories today. She was fearless!

That’s what intelligence is for. Apparently intelligence was asleep for 5 years. If you believe that I have some acreage in the Everglades for sale.
*******************************************

Jeff…How about Clinton should have known….it was on his watch when all this was being planned… you don’t think it was planned in just one year do you….Bush didn’t take office until Jan 20, 2001!!!! Put the blame where it should go!!

JeffM,
Obviously there was a conspiracy to perpetrate the events on 9/11. Will we ever know who the players were? No. Could the Clintonistas (Soros, the Chinese) have taken retribution for the “stolen” Gore election? Who knows? Could Bush have taken one for the Illuminati? Or maybe it was just a bunch of Bin Laden zealots with some incredibly dumb luck.
The point is, that by the very nature of a well-done conspiracy, the conspirators cannot be known. Questions asked will never be answered.

Thanks for the link. I’m aware of their research, and they are very intelligent for scanning the dust from the buildings. It’s a proverbial footprint on what caused the buildings to fall.

I have been tracking this conspiracy since September 11, 2001. And I can honestly say the more research I do, the more complicated things get. Anyone basing their conclusions on research done by truthers like Alex Jones or the other side of the fence, the government, is not taking this fiasco at face value.

I could get you started but the bottom line it’s like a giant “North and South” novel and to get the entire grasp of complexity of the 9/11 fiasco.

I can tell you this:

1. NIST couldn’t verify their own research on how the building fell in the official analysis
2. No one can correctly explain why WTC7 fell
3. There was too much forewarning of this attack for our government to say “we didn’t know”
4. There are too many holes in the official story to even begin to take it seriously

That should get you started.
_________________________________

Holes in all the stories especially the conspiracy theory…..Witnesses on the planes made the calls to loved ones before the planes crashed….read the true stories and quit making things up…..some of you are starting to sound like the FRAUD in our house and his cronies!!!

Linda from NY – He is a corrupt South Side thug, he has surround himself with same. He should not lecture anyone on anything at anytime. Did you ever hear that expression “Don’t be a nudge?”, this guy does not know when to quit, or exit stage left.

A new film destroys the official 9/11 Pentagon
crash story. Watch ” National Security Alert ”
online for free.
The original hole was only 16 feet across folks, the
wingspan of the plane was 124 feet, not quite a match….

Obama’s school speech today must have been a
cover for Orly’s hearing. Lucas Smith is really
putting himself on the line with the affadavit.
Rense.com and infowars.com have covered
this story, let’s hope they follow this trial
closely!

I don’t care who’s to blame. What I care about is why the government continues to cling to an official story that has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I want to know why the government wanted to sweep this under the rug, remove the evidence as fast as possible, and provide as little funding as possible to investigation instead of getting down to brass tacks and respond to questions they knew the answers to.

I don’t care if Bush or Clinton or the Pentagon, or whomever else was involved. What I want to know is why our beloved federal regime failed to act when it was their job to do so and they had more than sufficient evidence the crime was about to be committed and who the perpetrators would be.

Everyone is down in the weeds when they
should be up at the 10,000′ level, demanding why it happened to begin with. What are we paying these people to do? How is it they knew so much about the criminals years before and immediately after it was committed, yet not tell us the entire story?

JeffM-another point, this all happened so fast I think everyone in New York City was in a deep state of shock. You wouldn’t notice things, almost too much for the human mind to process at the time. I mean these people were trying to save lives, getting killed, suffering deep trauma. How were they able to think at all is beyond me. All too much at the time, with distance I think things may become clearer. I wonder if the attack was really against the banking industry of the world, with this building just happening to be in New York. What if it was in London or Madrid would they have been attacked. I think it is more about what was in the building as opposed to where the building.

there is much discussion about the technological impossibilities of the calls being made…as a courtesy you may want to read it before you shut everyone down here for their posts. Afterall, these are the same folks that agree with you on the BC issue.

“Holes in all the stories especially the conspiracy theory…..Witnesses on the planes made the calls to loved ones before the planes crashed….read the true stories and quit making things up…..some of you are starting to sound like the FRAUD in our house and his cronies!!”

Have you ever tried to make a cell phone call from 30000′ DA? I have. That was my first personally witnessed tip that that part of the official story was questionable. What I can accept is the fact people can make calls on air phones. What I can not accept is anyone making a successful call with personal cell phones.

But, don’t take my word for it, ask the airlines why they would spend so much money putting cell repeaters in aircrafts if the signal was so good on 9/11:

Again. I am not here to conclude anything. I am merely saying that people on here need to understand they can’t have their cake and eat it too. If the government is too corrupt to even follow the Constitution, then it shouldn’t be trusted, especially on national security issues like the crime that occurred on 9/11.

Moving forward…..I am so use to a Dog and Pony show that I must ask the question, Is there any possibility the hearing will go forwarded on Oct 5th without the motion for discovery? I am wondering in the Legal world if these arguments can be heard in a court of law without discovery, and if so, how frequent does this occur? I am bracing myself for a “we heard your arguments and the case is closed”. Behind closed doors they are saying, we can’t let them see the actual documents of Obama otherwise they will have real proof he is a fraud, so lets let them get a hearing without discovery so we can say, “See the system works and you lost so move on”. Is this possible? Can we do anything to avoid the Dog and Pony show just in-case? I hope the Orly legal team has this in mind. Just wondering, what do you think?

In case anyone’s interested the Healthcare Reform Rally for our Democratic leaders + mayor.The guy talking and calling the Obots commies is who got the footage of Sheila Jackson-Lee on the phone.It takes a minute to get going but it gets funny.There is a second one also. I was there chiding these idiots the whole time….screaming COMMUNISM NOW!

I agree with your premise, that the argument of a government not upholding the Constitution needs internal consistency.

However I wonder if a ceiling hasn’t been breached here. There are degrees of transgression. Many arguments have been made that this administration is more monstrous than the last (funny, I kept telling people if you think Bush was bad, just wait).

Without knowing details it may be a difficult premise to assume that the actions of this administration run parallel to the previous.

venice-I agree he deservedly and finally is getting hit from everywhere. This all should have been handled in the election cycle-the proper place for all this “vetting”. The media was doing THE ONE act. None of the other candidates could get in a word edgewise. They attacked Sarah like a heat seeking missile, and Hillary didn’t do much better. They said Sarah-Republicans spent $150,000.00 on clothes. I’m a girl. She had to come out of Alaska and quickly get prepared for all 50 states, different weather all over the country, multiple events same day, purses, shoes, dresses etc. I wonder how they did it as frugally as they did-Sarah always looked great, she’s a very pretty little girl. I think since it has been all Obama all the time for 2 years now people both parties are just plain sick of him. They insisted he was The Messiah, well just goes to show you how wrong they can be. Way oversold, with no substance to back up anything. I wish the lemon law was applicable here. Understand this it is all the fault of the DNC-I say that as a registered Democrat. This was a very unnatural election cycle due to their attempts to “doctor” it. Jerks it is supposed to be a democracy. The will of the people, not who the DNC or RNC rams down peoples throats.

Ask yourself this. How is it that after the blunders 8 years ago that various people in the FBI and CIA were not only not fired for failing to do their jobs, but were actually promoted into newly-created positions in both the CIA and the all-new DHS???

Doesn’t that strike you as a really bad rub? Regardless of who’s at fault, allowing 3000+ people to be killed and hundreds of billions of dollars stolen due to incompetence should result in immediate termination. Wouldn’t you agree???

We’ve seen this before time and time again. The mass graft and corruption in the federal government needs to end and end soon or we’re in for a total trainwreck where we’re all victims while the conductor gets promoted with a giant pay raise on our dime.

JeffM-one of the things that I remembered later is one of my girlfriends is from London, England and she was there when the banks failed. I remember her telling me how terrible it was, she said the “brown” people lost all of their money. I think she meant Muslim people who live in England. Since they hit the banking/financial industry I just wonder if it was some kind of payback to somebody on somebody.

Without knowing clearly all the details you know, I will defer to your judgement because the “devil is always in the details”, especially when considering complex systems.

If there is a point of contrast here, consider the 3 recently charged in England for planning the explosion of 7 carriers while airborne. The Brits are superb with their investigative techniques, but when the stakes are so high, no more than Americans. And no, I don’t think 9/11 sharpened their vigilance.

I also have this troubling vision (I have great visual memory , for better or for worse) of watching the methodical collapse of the twin towers, seen only with controlled demolitions. I know that point has been investigated and also questioned, but again that image plagues me.

My experience is that when something plagues me, it’ s usually even bigger than I think.

Case in point, I have until this election been a largely an apolitical person. Now this monster is bigger than I would ever have imagined.

JeffM-I agree, it somewhat like the Nazi’s stealing all the artwork and peoples valuables in World War2, and storing it in bunkers. Goering was famous for this. I understand in Germany they are still finding hidden Nazi loot. The Rape of Europa was about the stolen art. In the end it is all blood money and that is cursed money.

Have you ever tried to make a cell phone call from 30000′ DA? I have. That was my first personally witnessed tip that that part of the official story was questionable. What I can accept is the fact people can make calls on air phones. What I can not accept is anyone making a successful call with personal cell phones.

******************************************

Jeff…In fact I have and it is possible….My husband worked for the airlines as a flight attendant for many years and he says it is most definitely possible to make cell phone calls that high up!! The reason you are asked not to is because of the electronic interference of a cell phone or any other device that might affect the flying of the plane….I’m not buying any of this truther BS….it is best to focus on the FRAUD in our White House and what is going on right NOW…we can’t change the past!!!!

there is much discussion about the technological impossibilities of the calls being made…as a courtesy you may want to read it before you shut everyone down here for their posts. Afterall, these are the same folks that agree with you on the BC issue.
*******************************************

I have read the theories and I have read the true stories…..let’s see….which one should I believe….I think the true stories……as I said you can believe whatever…..I am in agreement that the government is corrupt….I’m not buying the truther thing however because there is little proof and nothing concrete!! I do believe that Clinton dropped the ball and that Bush didn’t take up the cause soon enough…after all it was the first major attack on our own soil…..people were so naive and now with the FRAUD we are giving back all of the security we once had under Bush!!!

The MA Libs have been entrenched for so long that it’s difficult to get them out and the voters are sheeples. Even with what happened last fall, the ‘people’ voted Bahney Fwank in yet again. When you keep repeating something, should you expect a different outcome?

Perhaps with the Senate vacancy (oh, woe is me, the Liberal Lion, Ted Kennedy is gone. Sob!) we’ll get someone decent in there to change the complexion of this azz-backwards state. One can hope.

I just hope that CW is spreading the message throughout VT-we need him up there!

He was totally thrilled with the news when it was sent to him (he was unable to make the trip to CA). He urges Judge Carter to take safety precautions; if the Judge has a ‘heart attack’ that would be foolish on ‘their’ part because that’d point to a total setup. Everyone’s on to their tactics.

Not all those calls were made form 30,ooo ft on 9/11, so maybe that is why they got through…

Also someone in the flight deck might have turned off those systems that would interfere with cell phone calls, without the highjackers knowing it, to allow calls to go through…

The South,

Regarding the hit on the DoD building, most plains do make big splashes, because they hit tangentially; the hit onthe Dod was caught on film by a camera nearby, it was on TV some years ago…

That hit was nearly parallel to the ground, the plan litterally came in feet above the ground parallel to the building…the resulting impact was entirely inside the building, with the heavy stone facade absorbing most of the momentum…a plan moving that fast that low that parallel is hard to observe up close, it comes by like a woosh, somethign like a high speed commuter train does, on a commuter line train station; you can’t see it comming…or going…

Our security was greatly compromised under Bush. Don’t know how you concluded that.

Your posts indicate you’ve spent untold hours on the birth certificate/natural born citizen issue. You’re very well versed. If you had spent the same amount of time on the 9/11 issue you would perhaps be where some of the rest of us are on 9/11.

Dismissing us as, and comparing us to, the FRAUD (your words) and his cronies was uncalled for. I don’t believe this site is solely dedicated to the BC issue.

9/11 was pivotal in bringing in the New World Order. Bush simply passed the baton to Obama.

At the beginning of the primaries I had two burning questions I wanted answered (which is why I’m still here).

Who is this extraordinarily noncredible candidated named Barack Obama and why would the powers behind him choose such an inadequate specimen as their frontman, when surely there were many others to consider?

The first didn’t take long to answer. I’m still working on the second. I have to wonder if they finally realize the folly of their choice.

Yes, you can make calls from aircraft, but not at 30,000′. Sorry, the airlines don’t agree with your analysis.

But I agree. 9/11 is an enormous and daunting task to uncover and that our energy should be focused on the current issues.
*******************************************
Jeff…At least we agree on one thing….the cell phone thing is not true though so you won’t get me to agree on that one…..My husband’s family are all AirForce and he was with the Airlines for 20 years as I stated…..I think he knows what he is talking about…..further more you keep saying 30,000 ft. How do you know how high they were up when they were making the phone calls……you weren’t there no one alive can confirm that number…another theory….I don’t think they were high up at all since they went nose first into the ground at a high rate of speed leaving a huge crater!!

Our security was greatly compromised under Bush. Don’t know how you concluded that.

Your posts indicate you’ve spent untold hours on the birth certificate/natural born citizen issue. You’re very well versed. If you had spent the same amount of time on the 9/11 issue you would perhaps be where some of the rest of us are on 9/11.

Dismissing us as, and comparing us to, the FRAUD (your words) and his cronies was uncalled for. I don’t believe this site is solely dedicated to the BC issue.

9/11 was pivotal in bringing in the New World Order. Bush simply passed the baton to Obama.
****************************************

Maybe you didn’t read what I said…..you can believe in any conspiracy you want…I’m not buying it as I believe the true stories by real victims who told what was happening on the airplanes to their loved ones….I’m sure I have read and seen as much about 9/11 as the rest of you as my husband worked with US Airways at this time…..they were told a lot then. You are dismissing me like I don’t know what I believe….I know what I have read and seen….just like you….if anyone is dismissive it is you!!!

Perhaps you are right regarding the calls. But I’ve read the transcripts in the official story and they are questionable at best.

Regardless, we can simple forego the obvious mysteries and go to interesting facts like:

1. The CIA had tapped apartments on the alleged hijackers years prior to the attacks.
2. Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil warned the U.S. and U.N. of imminent attacks, but was ignored (guess you didn’t hear about this one, did you…)
3. The CIA is warned by the Egyption Government in July of 20 operatives and their plan, but the CIA was “not interested”

We could go on and on about this but the “we didn’t know about the attack” excuse was debunked years ago.

Not all those calls were made form 30,ooo ft on 9/11, so maybe that is why they got through…

Also someone in the flight deck might have turned off those systems that would interfere with cell phone calls, without the highjackers knowing it, to allow calls to go through…

The South,

Regarding the hit on the DoD building, most plains do make big splashes, because they hit tangentially; the hit onthe Dod was caught on film by a camera nearby, it was on TV some years ago…

That hit was nearly parallel to the ground, the plan litterally came in feet above the ground parallel to the building…the resulting impact was entirely inside the building, with the heavy stone facade absorbing most of the momentum…a plan moving that fast that low that parallel is hard to observe up close, it comes by like a woosh, somethign like a high speed commuter train does, on a commuter line train station; you can’t see it comming…or going…
********************************************

CNN… Nice try but I think they both have their minds made up without reading the true stories of what went on in the airplanes!!

We could go on and on about this but the “we didn’t know about the attack” excuse was debunked years ago.

********************************************
Jeff…When was this debunked….I thought that is why the 9/11 truthers got a petition going to try and prove it??? Did they ever prove it???

In my research and reading about 9/11 I believe we were still a very naive nation…..most people believed these attacks only happened in foreign countries of unrest and political oppression…I think the communication between the various agencies was so bad that the left hand never knew what the right hand was doing and vice versa….I know for a fact that the Transportation Department was quite naive…..it was after 9/11 that they clamped down some with the security at airports…..if you ask me though….I don’t think it is enough….I am waiting for the next major attack where they just blow up the entrance of the airport or ticket counters with at dirty bomb of some sort! In Vegas no one checks your bags as you enter the airport….only after you check them in…..this is very naive to say the least…..I hate flying anymore….we used to do it on a regular basis because my husband had free flight benefits….I am kind of glad he doesn’t anymore….now I don’t have to fly!!

We don’t know what really happened, however, if we think rationaly, they weren’t flying at reduced speed. Some passengers which I call “Heroes” tried to take control of the plane back. There was a fight in the cockpit, and I’m quite certain that there weren’t flying at reduced speed at all.

I know it’s weird to think that there was just a small hole, but you need to think like this: If on 9/12/01 I would have said to you that in 8 years, we’ll have a new president who will, among destroy this country, sympathize with terrorists, who’ll have a shady past, who’s not qualified, who’s not clear about his religion (even though there are facts out there that he was thought Islam when he was a kid), etc… you would have thought that I was crazy.

They knew it was coming. There simply is no excuse, unless over a dozen nations were simply lying about notifying the U.S. of imminent attack. Did they know who would be involved? YES! Did they know when it was going to happen? Who cares. The bottom line is they knew the criminals were going to attack, yet did almost nothing to trace their movement within the U.S. That’s what we know from the “official” sources.

What we don’t know is if they knew the exact date and time. But, just like Pearl Harbor, our “beloved” government knew it was coming but decided, for whatever reason, to choose inaction over action.

1. All 6000+ events in the 9/11 timeline
2. The 9/11 Commission Official Report cover to cover (twice)
3. The NIST 9/11 Final Report cover to cover

Where are you getting your information from?
*******************************************
It has been a while but I have read some of the same reports you mention here but I have also read some of the books written by the victims families…..there is a lot of good information and stories at firehouse.com too. I haven’t study the documents you mention here as closely as you probably but I have read enough magazines and internet researches in the past to form my opinion….none of which made me buy into the truther thing…..if you buy the conspiracy then that is what you believe….for me…the ideas are not concrete when many things have been written to contradict the truther theories.

When a plane, which is actually very light and insubstantially strong (it has to be thus to fly) hits dirt, and when it hits granit blocks 3 ft thick, different things happen, its part of material sciences…

When light things hit malleable things, you get impact craters: try dropping a cherry tomato in a pile of flour…

When light things hit non-malleable things, you don’t get impact craters: try dropping a wad of chewing gum on a tiled floor….

Elementary, my dear Watson!

————–

As for doing nothing about it, Clinton filled DC with incompetents, and it is very easy to sit in your armchairs in 2009 and said they should have seen it comming; in intelligence work you get 10,000 false alarms every year, so with every tragedy you can always find the alarms beforhand and never quite figure out why they were not heard among the din of the 9,900 other fake ones…

Physics is a funny thing. I can say I don’t have any really confirmation regarding the evidence found at the Pentagon, so I usually leave that argument to others.

Here’s what I know about the buildings in NYC:

1. NIST themselves couldn’t prove their own “pancake theory” regarding WTC I and WTC II.
2. NIST themselves couldn’t explain the unusual deposits on various structural steel in WTC7 and recommended further investigation, not ruling out the possibility of explosives.

Now, that’s pretty bad when the government spent tens of millions of dollars trying to prove how and what caused the buildings fell but yet mysteriously can’t get their theories to work. Then they magically cut the research off due to “budget constraints” (what could be more important than discovering the truth about the worst attack on U.S. soil???)

That’s pathetic. And that’s why no one should ever trust the “official” explanation or the government to do anything right.

“As for doing nothing about it, Clinton filled DC with incompetents, and it is very easy to sit in your armchairs in 2009 and said they should have seen it comming; in intelligence work you get 10,000 false alarms every year, so with every tragedy you can always find the alarms beforhand and never quite figure out why they were not heard among the din of the 9,900 other fake ones…”

That’s a lame excuse. If the government can’t track these threats they aren’t spending our dollars properly. But alas, they were tracking these threats and doing a decent job at it.

But we all let it slide instead of demanding answers to the incompetancy like we are doing with this government regime now. Why is that?

They knew it was coming. There simply is no excuse, unless over a dozen nations were simply lying about notifying the U.S. of imminent attack. Did they know who would be involved? YES! Did they know when it was going to happen? Who cares. The bottom line is they knew the criminals were going to attack, yet did almost nothing to trace their movement within the U.S. That’s what we know from the “official” sources.

What we don’t know is if they knew the exact date and time. But, just like Pearl Harbor, our “beloved” government knew it was coming but decided, for whatever reason, to choose inaction over action.
******************************************

Jeff…You still haven’t convinced me with the time-line….MSM as we all know is corrupt….I wouldn’t believe them….all these official documents would have to be sworn in a court of law and evidence shown…..you can’t just say because someone wrote about it and theorized it that it is true…..I am not convinced….I believe there was chattered and our government and our intelligence was asleep at the wheel……just like we Americans have been for several years…..we let an illegal get elected as POTUS and so far no one can prove it and people are still supporting him….go figure….anything is possible. Our National Security is in grave danger with the USURPER in office…..if we get attacked again on his watch then I believe our government is at fault now because the sleeping giant is awake and has been warning them for months!

You make a fair analysis on many “truther” movements. They tend to do a one-sided scientific approach to the crime. What they fail to do is look at the overall web of “terrorist activity” and how it all interweaves together.

There are only certain truths to this crime of the century:

1. The government couldn’t prove their own scientific theories
2. The government knew it was coming but failed to act
3. The government used this crime as a reason to deploy hundreds of thousands of troops overseas on a “war” against an ideology instead of an enemy

That should sound off the bells in our heads that the rubic’s cube of truth is missing a few squares.

I would just say, to prove or disprove 9/11 claims would require first the removal of Obama, then sweeping the congress and Senate out. Once an established objective group is in place, the federal reserve can be shut down. Once the elite are in check, then these 9/11 questions may see some light. I don’t stand on one side or the other cause I find myself still on step 1. Lets get this done and stay focused, answers will come in time. Agree to disagree, its fun though =)

I’m curious, what is the gist of the stories that went on in the airplane?
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The truth is that real live terrorist took control of some of our US planes and some of the citizens fought back by trying to take over the plane before they could crash into any more buildings killing more Americans…..several of them alerted family members before and during the happenings….read some of the stories written by family members. This was planned by the terrorists…..not by our government! However the last statement is my belief….I am not a TRUTHER like the Jones brothers!!

That’s a lame excuse. If the government can’t track these threats they aren’t spending our dollars properly. But alas, they were tracking these threats and doing a decent job at it.

But we all let it slide instead of demanding answers to the incompetancy like we are doing with this government regime now. Why is that?

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Jeff…I think we are all in agreement here that our government is incompetent……thus very difficult to pull off the truther conspiracy if they are as incompetent as we all believe…..maybe the better word is CORRUPT!

We can only fight battles against enemies we know. Right now our worst adversary is the federal government. Birther or truther or whatever anyone is called, the fact remains. It’s time to clean house and revitalize our nation’s wealth, prosperity, and Constitution.

Justice will be done against all those who have stripped away our rights, our heritage, and most importantly, our future. Terrible crimes are being waged against the people of the U.S. That’s why we all feel violated.

You make a fair analysis on many “truther” movements. They tend to do a one-sided scientific approach to the crime. What they fail to do is look at the overall web of “terrorist activity” and how it all interweaves together.

There are only certain truths to this crime of the century:

1. The government couldn’t prove their own scientific theories
2. The government knew it was coming but failed to act
3. The government used this crime as a reason to deploy hundreds of thousands of troops overseas on a “war” against an ideology instead of an enemy

That should sound off the bells in our heads that the rubic’s cube of truth is missing a few squares.
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Jeff—I don’t agree with your 3 certain truths at all but that is my opinion….I haven’t seen any proof that is beyond a reasonable doubt that verifies what you say here as true…..I’m not easily convinced…..I guess that is why I haven’t bought any of the FRAUD’s BS!!

I would just say, to prove or disprove 9/11 claims would require first the removal of Obama, then sweeping the congress and Senate out. Once an established objective group is in place, the federal reserve can be shut down. Once the elite are in check, then these 9/11 questions may see some light. I don’t stand on one side or the other cause I find myself still on step 1. Lets get this done and stay focused, answers will come in time. Agree to disagree, its fun though =)

We can only fight battles against enemies we know. Right now our worst adversary is the federal government. Birther or truther or whatever anyone is called, the fact remains. It’s time to clean house and revitalize our nation’s wealth, prosperity, and Constitution.

Justice will be done against all those who have stripped away our rights, our heritage, and most importantly, our future. Terrible crimes are being waged against the people of the U.S. That’s why we all feel violated.

We can only fight battles against enemies we know. Right now our worst adversary is the federal government. Birther or truther or whatever anyone is called, the fact remains. It’s time to clean house and revitalize our nation’s wealth, prosperity, and Constitution.

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Jeff—I believe the real enemy is not only the government but also the ignorance and apathy of many of our citizens……some are still going about their business here like nothing is going on ……just like before 9/11……Lot’s of people still have on their rose colored glasses that we are this great power and nothing will ever topple the USA….we all know better because we have educated ourselves and have gotten involved….I was one of those apathetic people a few years back….but not anymore….9/11 is actually what jolted me to reality.

If it is true, that on Oct 5, if Carter tosses the motion to dismiss, and allows discovery, what will happen?

If that means that Orly will get subpoena powers to get the documents requested, then a lot more is going to happen politically between Oct and Jan, than merely preparation for the trial.

Because we will find out if there is any motive for Obama to be hiding the information…

If it is found out that he used other passports to get student aide at Occidental, Columbia or Harvard…then politically you’ll see his number drop precipitously…

If not, his numbers will rise, as his opponents claim he was maligned and they will try to sweep the NBC issue under the rug…

Personally, I see no reason for Carter to schedule a trial in Jan., the case is too important, and believe that the country is being cleverly manipulated through the courts to keep waiting for lawyers to save us, and thus give time for Obama to put everything in place to sieze total power.

In all, I believe the results are dim and bad…

Carter, as someone said, was appointed by Clinton: anyone with a drop of common sense does not put a case of usurpation on hold for 4 months, while the usurper can do more evil ….

Carter seems to me just a very slick operative: and I predict in the end he will not rule on the NBC issue…leaving Zero in power…

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Just sent this to Dr. Taitz:

Congrats on your progress today in Santa Ana.

I just thought of this which you may have thought of as well.

I wonder if there could be an emergency STAY ORDER acquired from the Courts to FREEEZE BO and Pelosi etc al, until this is cleared up by the court. This would protect We The People and the Nation from having any more harm done until the case is decided. Would this harm the case’s chances or enhance them? If BO’s Administration and all his appointees were by emergency order forced to Seize and Desist All actions it would also limit the Dept of Justice from defending BO and aiding and abetting on his Alleged FRAUD.

This would have to be analyzed carefully, most important is not to jeopardize the progress already made BUT at the same time limit any more damage to the country and We The People.

I am cautious by nature an try not to jump to conclusions BUT some things in this issue don;t seem to add up one way or the other.
A lot of these secondary explosions could happen by natural gas in the bldg and other explosive materials. Even electric transformer can do good size explosations.

The thing that puzzles me most is the “Plumber” that should have been totally investigated. No, not Joe the Plumber but the Muslim Plumber that was in the WTC the day before and they found him out of state. Supposedly he was doing work in the spinkler system. Did the sprinklers go off? Or was he setting Bombs like Obama’s Terrorist buddies Bill Ayers and the other one in his Administration from Wheather Underground?

There are too many unanswered and unmentioned issues that make this 9/11 Conspiracy keep smoking……is it blowing smoke in some people’s eyes or making others reflect the mirrors?

Just remember there are those that their job is to do no harm, who will do harm thinking it’ll prevent a greater harm. There are also those that are pure evil and will kill and destroy as you ro I would kill a fly.

Keep in eye on Communist wing of the CIA I would say. They have made it all the way to the White House which would be unimaginable just a few yrs ago.

I had a long talk about 9/11 with my, now late, father, who was a professional scientist with training in material science among other fields, and am pretty convinced that all the evidence is consistent with 2 plains taking down the 2 towers, and the resulting shock waves taking town building 7.

I base this solely on scientific principles.

You seem to have doctrinal objections which are a priori to scientific evidence…

But I will admit this much: it is an entirely other question, whether the preparations for the attack were known and ignored and whether the resulting crisis was used or exploited…

At the beginning of the Bush era we had 9/11, and at the end we had the 9/11 financial collapse which put Barry in office…

These two incidents alone could get a mountain of folks charging conspiracy…

I look at the bigger picture, the NWO infiltration of our government and their agenda…

Whether these 2 incidents were planned or ignored or arranged makes little difference, as the NWO is exploiting them for their agenda…we need to do the opposite for freedom and liberty…

The gold in the building was there as part of a commodity trading company escrow holdings for its customers; it melted in the disaster, but was recovered; saw several reports about it, even pictures of the 900 armour cars that removed it…the insurance company payed out, but recoved what was left….

The wordrpress previews option on your blog, is one of the most annoying contrivances ever invented, as it prevents direct clicks to the link and insists showing the preview, not can I figure out how to turn it off…

What is provided here, is essential “meat.” However, we are only chipping at the tip of the iceberg. I haven’t even mentioned Bill Cooper yet…

Dear People, I am a Ealge Scout and a U.S. Marine veteran. My specialties in the military were communications, intelligence and counter-intelligence holding a top secret clearance. My two American heros. less most of the founding fathers, are Generals Smedley D. Butler, and David M. Shoup. Get to know these two guys, and why they are significant in American history.

Please believe me, when I state emphatically, that ALL of the information that I present above is related to each other, in order to form a nexus of understanding. Pray to your God before you delve into this info. Pray while you are examining the info. Pray while digesting this info. And, then pray some more for wisdom on how to react to this info. I believe we are entering unprecedented times since “the days of Noah.”

Finally, after digesting the above, (or at least attempting to), these are for only the very brave. It will take courage to delve into the following. I only implore, that everyone at least try to have an open mind in reviewing this. Eventually, ALL will have to come to terms with this…

What is provided here (above), is essential “meat.” However, we are only chipping at the tip of the iceberg. I haven’t even mentioned Bill Cooper yet…

Dear People, I am a Eagle Scout and a U.S. Marine veteran. My specialties in the military were communications, intelligence and counter-intelligence holding a top secret clearance. My two American heroes. less most of the founding fathers, are Generals Smedley D. Butler, and David M. Shoup. Get to know these two guys, and why they are significant in American history.

Please believe me, when I state emphatically, that ALL of the information that I present above is related to each other, in order to form a nexus of understanding. Pray to your God before you delve into this info. Pray while you are examining the info. Pray while digesting this info. And, then pray some more for wisdom on how to react to this info. I believe we are entering unprecedented times since “the days of Noah.”

While I respect everyone’s opinion on 9-11, and I understand that with the 8th anniversary just days away, that the topic is out there.

But I also worry that this is taking us off topic – the current issues – and that is one of their strategies – distraction!

With all that’s going on in this country right now … I do worry that we can be attacked again, and this time I would believe it would come from within.

All due respect to those who voice their beliefs, opinions, etc… right now we need to continue to work on the current issues … getting the usurper out of the WH.

After reading all the comments on this thread about 9-11, I will admit, I would be open to reading and learning more. I argued with my son over this topic last year to the point we just couldn’t discuss it. The last thing any American would want to think, is that our Government would allow us to be attacked. I do appreciate someones ( I believe JeffM )comment above that said maybe Bush, etc… didn’t know. Maybe it was foreign banking, etc… I would be more open to that than to think our Government would do this.

BUT, I strongly believe we need to stay on topic … current issues.

Again, as JeffM pointed out, with the anniversary of this tragic, tragic event … it is being discussed. But please … let’s not lose focus and please … let’s not argue too much! This has always been a peaceful and insightful place to visit. Let’s not turn on each other over opposing opinions.

If anyone wants to go back to yesterday’s thread, you will see some of our most respected posters here were extremely offended … Oldsalt77. I have read his comments with great respect. He has served his country well. Please keep this in mind. :)

Have you ever been at the site of an accident involving a large aircraft?The impact dynamics aren’t exactly what you might think. In the old days piston engine birds such as the EC110 Lockheed(Constellation),the Douglas DC 6B were pretty much the workhorses of the industry for long haul high altitude flight. There were a number of unfortunate accidents with both aircraft. Typically,the impact dynamics of the old birds was such that they created a much larger area of surface depression, owing to the 4 piston engines which were two row each having 9 cylinders each for a total of 18 cylinders. These engines weighed over 3000 pounds each with cowlings,and propellers mounted. This weight by itself amounts to six tons of the gross weight of the aircraft. Then consider the weight of over 170 people on board which accounts for another approx, 13 tons,baggage another 1 ton, fuel on board,hard to calculate bit capacity eould amount 1-5tons. Then the weight of the airframe, approx. 15 tons. This accounts for a gross weight of approximately 38 tons. Now lets add an airspeed of an out of control straight down plunge of this 38 ton bird, which if having started from about 18,000 feet would probably reach a velocity in excess of 400 MPH. A 38 ton deadweight at 400MPH creates an impact dynamic force of 15,200 tons this is the actual force exerted upon an approximate 2500 square foot patch of earth. YES INDEED IT IS GOING TO CREATE A FAIRLY LARGE CRATER. iN THE CASE OF THE OLDER BIRDS THERE WAS SOMETIMES A FEW LARGER PIECES LEFT OVER. THIS IS BECAUSE THE FORCE DYNAMICS GENERATED DID NOT ACT UPON THOSE PARTICULAR PIECES IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS IT DID UPON THE MAIN FRONTAL AREAS OF THE AIRCRAFT, AT THE MOMENT OF IMPACT. THE RESULTING COMBINATION OF FUEL EXPLOSION.(GASOLINE THEN) COMBINED WITH OUTWARD, AND UPWARD EXPLOSIVE AIR MOVEMENT, THE GOUGING,AND CRUSHING OF THE AIRFRAME COLLECTIVELY PRODUCES A CRATER PER SE.
IN THE INSTANCE OF A 757 THE ENGINES ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LIGHTER THAN PISTON ENGINES, AND OCCUPY A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT POSITION WITH RESPECT TO THE WING OF THE AIRCRAFT,YET EACH WILL NONETHELESS GENERATE SEVERE IMPACT FORCES. iN THE CASE OF FLIGHT 93 WHICH IS THOUGHT TO HAVE IMPACTED THE GROUND INVERTED, AND AT AN AIRSPEED IN EXCESS OF 500 mph. IT WOULD HAVE GENERATED NEARLY EXACTLY THE GOUGE WE SEE LEADING TO A SUBSTANTIAL CRATER. THE CRATER MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMEWHAT SMALLER BECAUSE THE DESCENT TRAJECTORY WAS NOT PERPENDICULAR TO THE EARTH, RATHER AT A RELATIVE ANGLE TO THE EARTH. THIS SORT OF IMPACT SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCES THE IMPACT FORCES, BUT BECAUSE OF BEING AT AN ANGLE TO THE EARTH LITERALLY GUARANTEES TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE BIRD. lN THE FEW MICROSECONDS OF IMPACT FORCE, COMBINED WITH THE EXPLOSIVE FORCES OF ON BOARD FUEL, THE AIRCRAFT WOULD BE LITERALLY PULVERIZED AS THOUGH IT HAD BEEN DROPPED INTO A GIANT SHREDDER. THAT IS THE WAY IMPACT FORCES BEHAVE. THESE FORCES VARY FROM ACCIDENT TO ACCIDENT, BUT ACCIDENTS INVOLVING SUCH AIRCRAFT AS LARGE PASSENGER JETS IT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THEM. YET IN MANY ACCIDENTS THERE IS SOMETIMES LARGE PORTIONS OF THE AIRCRAFT ARE LEFT INTACT. AGAIN THIS GOES DIRECTLY TO THE SPECIFIC FORCES GENERATED BY THE PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES INVOLVED.
REGARDING THE 757 THAT WAS FLOWN INTO THE PENTAGON, I HAVE TO ARGUE THAT YOU MUST FIRST UNDERSTAND HOW THAT BUILDING WAS DESIGNED, AND BUILT. THIS WAS UNIQUE IN DESIGN. IT IS ACTUALLY SEVERAL ROWS OF SOLIDLY BUILT BUILDINGS WITHIN,AND BEHIND EACH ROW. THAT IS THE PRIMARY REASON WHY THE PLANE DID NOT PENRTRATE COMPLETELY THROUGH TO THE COURTYARD ON THE INSIDE EVEN THOUGH THE AIRCRAFT IS THOUGHT TO HAVE STRUCK THE BUILDING AT OVER 500MPH. AT SUCH AIRSPEED, COMBINED WITH A VERY HARD AND WELL CONSTRUCTED BUILDING, (WHICH WAS BY THE WAY DESIGNED WITH SUCH A POSSIBILITY IN MIND). IT IS CONCIEVABLE THAT LITTLE TO NOTHING WOULD REMAIN OF THE AIRCRAFT. I WOULD VENTURE TO GUESS THAT THE GREATER DAMAGE TO THE PENTAGON WAS RESULTANT OF THE ON BOARD FUEL EXPLOSION, AND SUBSEQUENT FIRE. I AM SURE THAT THE VELOCITY OF THE AIRCRAFT,COMBINED WITH IT’S FULLY LOADED WEIGHT WOULD HAVE GENERATED MASSIVE DESTRUCTION TO ANY OTHER BUILDING. BUT BECAUSE THE PENTAGON WAS DESIGNED WITH SUCH A POSSIBILITY IN MIND THE OVERALL RESULT WAS LESSER PHYSICAL DESTRUCTION,INCLUDING A LESSER HOLE SO TO SPEAK. WHILE EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN THEORIES,AND BELIEFS WHICH I RESPECT, I SIMPLY DISAGREE WITH YOU REGARDING SUCH A CONSPIRACY. I DON’T KNOW IF EITHER YOU OR jEFFM HAVE BEEN IN OUR MILITARY SERVICES. YOU LEARN CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT THE MILITARY, AND OFTEN IT’S VARIOUS CIVILIAN COUNTERPARTS WHICH TOTALLY CONTRADICTS CONSPIRACY THEORIES. THIS KNOWLEDGE TELLS ME THAT THERE WAS INDEED A CONSPIRACY, BUT NOT ONE PERPETRATED BY U.S., OR ALLEGED SHADOW INTERESTS. IT WAS PLANNED AND EXECUTED BY ALQUADA.

jcd–if your specialties were intelligence and counter intelligence (also comms) and you held a TS clearance, AND YOU VALUED THAT EXPERIENCE AND THE SECURITY OF THE US, you would never divulge that information on this blog or any other. That makes other things you write about suspect. I surmise you are a disaffected Catholic, or have some other beef with Catholics, and that colors your outlook. I invite you to really study the Catholic faith, from an adult perspective, with an open mind. I invite you to pray as well.
BTW–the picture on your profile is really strange looking to me. You might want to consider updating it to something a little more personable.