My friends at the Bureau who keep up on firearms and tactics issues affecting them told me that the agency is seriously considering going back to 9mm (but staying with Glock)

The reasoning they supposedly have are:

1. The difference (in their opinion now) in terminal ballistics between .40 and 9mm is minimal.

2. The 9mm is more shooter friendly (read: for females)

3. The 9mm is a lower pressure round which they feel may alleviate some recurring maintenance/breakage issues they have been seeing.

Its very interesting but to be honest a lot of people right here and other forums who take self defense seriously have been stating this for a while. I don't have a problem with the 40 however I don't really care for the muzzle flip inherit with this round as I like to get as many rounds on target as quickly as I can.

I tell a lot of people who ask me, the following: get the biggest round in the most reliable gun you can become proficient in and train, train, train.

Wouldn't surprise me if they decide to change back to all agents using 9mm. They do have some folks still using 9mm. (Remember their disparate impact suit?)

I remember when my former agency changed over from general issue use of 9mm to general issue of both .40 S&W and .45 ACP. (Some limited numbers of single stack 9's remained in-service, for those small numbers of shooters with smaller hands and more sensitivity to felt recoil, and some more were ordered.)

Now, it appears that when new guns are ordered, issued users will be given a choice of 9, .40 or .45, and they can also once again carry personally-owned weapons chambered in any of those approved 3 calibers (from an approved list of 3 of the major gun companies).

I suspect we'll see more 9's being carried, although there's always going to be the folks who will favor .45 ACP. So far, the reasoning I've heard offered for returning to 9mm is similar to that expressed elsewhere. Specifically, that the 9's terminal ballistics (using any of the premium-type hollowpoints) has demonstrated an acceptable level of performance, and that felt recoil levels & overall controllability are going to be more favorable to a wider range of users.

While I carried both .40 & .45 issued weapons prior to my retirement, I'd have been perfectly content to have continued carrying my last issued 6906 until the end of my career.

I've been a longtime owner & user of .45 pistols, and acclimated myself to the .40 starting back in 2000, but I still own and use a fair number of 9's.

That's certainly different than when I was a young cop, and thought the only semiauto pistol worth carrying was a .45 ACP.

It's been described by different gun companies over the years that 9mm is easier on guns than .45, and .40 is harder on guns than both 9 & .45 ... with .357 sometimes being described as being harder on guns than any of the rest.

My friends at the Bureau who keep up on firearms and tactics issues affecting them told me that the agency is seriously considering going back to 9mm (but staying with Glock)

The reasoning they supposedly have are:

1. The difference (in their opinion now) in terminal ballistics between .40 and 9mm is minimal.

2. The 9mm is more shooter friendly (read: for females)

3. The 9mm is a lower pressure round which they feel may alleviate some recurring maintenance/breakage issues they have been seeing.

Its very interesting but to be honest a lot of people right here and other forums who take self defense seriously have been stating this for a while. I don't have a problem with the 40 however I don't really care for the muzzle flip inherit with this round as I like to get as many rounds on target as quickly as I can.

I tell a lot of people who ask me, the following: get the biggest round in the most reliable gun you can become proficient in and train, train, train.

Maybe someone should remind the FBI about the shootout in Florida some years back when they were using 9mm. If I remember correctly they lost 3 or 4 agents and didn't take 1 bad guy down. They were using cars for barricades and the 9's won't go through car doors. That's when they swore of 9's. But I guess time cures all wounds.

Maybe someone should remind the FBI about the shootout in Florida some years back when they were using 9mm. If I remember correctly they lost 3 or 4 agents and didn't take 1 bad guy down. They were using cars for barricades and the 9's won't go through car doors. That's when they swore of 9's. But I guess time cures all wounds.

It's just a fact that those types of shootings have the FBI carrying rifle-power with them so hanguns will not be in play to the extent they were then. Plus, they have more than enough drones in the air to deal with any citizen whether he be a real threat or not. This ain't the same America it was back when that shooting took place.

Maybe someone should remind the FBI about the shootout in Florida some years back when they were using 9mm. If I remember correctly they lost 3 or 4 agents and didn't take 1 bad guy down. They were using cars for barricades and the 9's won't go through car doors. That's when they swore of 9's. But I guess time cures all wounds.

Two agents were killed, the rest shot up pretty badly. My understanding was the "offending" bullet was Winchester Silver Tips in 115 grain. Supposedly not enough penetration, and thus the initial issuing of the S&W 1006 in 10mm, that not all agents could shoot well. It was a big gun! This lead to the downloading of the 10mm to the .40 S&W.

A couple of things. The Illinois State Police had up until a few years ago, been using 9mm since the late 60's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 115 grain 9mm +P+ considered the traditional load of this agency. I'm sure they've put down a significant number of bad guys with this round. NYC Transit police were using 124 grain Gold Dots in the Mid 90's with effectiveness, and likely one of the reasons that when they got swallowed up by NYPD, the latter would ultimately choose the same load to run through their guns.

There are easily people WAAAAY more qualified to discuss ballistics and bullets with authority than myself. My understanding is that bullet technology has improved tremendously over the last 25 years. For instance my load of choice presently is the 147 grain Gold Dots. Back in 1990 when I first picked up a Sig P226 the "load"I used was the 147 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks. The difference between now and then is that in '90 those Hydra-Shoks were meant to be fired from suppressed MP-5 submachine guns. Out of the P226 I might have gotten good penetration, but expansion was likely to be iffy at best. Whereas today with my Gold Dots, and I expect any quality 147 grain load made today will likely expand reliably.

I highly doubt anyone carrying a 9mm is undergunned.

Best,

Dave

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Two agents were killed, the rest shot up pretty badly. My understanding was the "offending" bullet was Winchester Silver Tips in 115 grain. Supposedly not enough penetration, and thus the initial issuing of the S&W 1006 in 10mm, that not all agents could shoot well. It was a big gun! This lead to the downloading of the 10mm to the .40 S&W.

A couple of things. The Illinois State Police had up until a few years ago, been using 9mm since the late 60's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 115 grain 9mm +P+ considered the traditional load of this agency. I'm sure they've put down a significant number of bad guys with this round. NYC Transit police were using 124 grain Gold Dots in the Mid 90's with effectiveness, and likely one of the reasons that when they got swallowed up by NYPD, the latter would ultimately choose the same load to run through their guns.

There are easily people WAAAAY more qualified to discuss ballistics and bullets with authority than myself. My understanding is that bullet technology has improved tremendously over the last 25 years. For instance my load of choice presently is the 147 grain Gold Dots. Back in 1990 when I first picked up a Sig P226 the "load"I used was the 147 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks. The difference between now and then is that in '90 those Hydra-Shoks were meant to be fired from suppressed MP-5 submachine guns. Out of the P226 I might have gotten good penetration, but expansion was likely to be iffy at best. Whereas today with my Gold Dots, and I expect any quality 147 grain load made today will likely expand reliably.

I highly doubt anyone carrying a 9mm is undergunned.

Best,

Dave

I had a DEA friend that used the Hydra-Shocks by the caseload because as you said...they fed well in his MP5. He then swithed over to the AR platform as an entry wesapon. Naturally...being his friend...during our shooting sessions...I acquired quite a bit of his "surplus" 9mm.

Hydra-Shocks in 9mm are still hard to beat (notice I said "hard"...not conclusively) for general service and realiability of function in a 9mm.