Get married when you are ready to have kids. No sooner.
Go in assuming it will be till death do you part, but prepared for it to end well before then.

I sure wouldn't even plan on having kids without being married, but I haven't seen any reason not to get married when kids aren't immediately in the picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by in stitches

If you have the right woman, without a doubt yes it is worth it.

That would be my summary so far. The "finding the right woman" part is key, and I think a lot of guys disproportionately weight the wrong variables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

I married a good deal earlier - 27 - and knowing what I know now I would have waited until I was past 30.

I got married at 28 and I'm 30 now So far working out ok for me. No kids in my case though. Did anything particular change in your case, or did you just miss some considerations when you made the decision at 27?

I don't think men and women will ever be equals as viewed re: society/law. Just my opinion, and I hope to someday be proven wrong, but for now I'm skeptical.

i will agree with this. because they are not equal. neither is better or worse, they are different, and therefor not equal. each gender has its advantages and disadvantages. making them exactly equal will never work imo.

i will agree with this. because they are not equal. neither is better or worse, they are different, and therefor not equal. each gender has its advantages and disadvantages. making them exactly equal will never work imo.

We're different, and should embrace that. Imho one of the biggest mistakes of the feminism movement was the evolution from campaigning for the same rights (with which I agree), to campaigning for the same treatment/positions? (not sure if its the right word).

We definitely realize that. However, currently any woman you marry in the Netherlands could walk into a wall and claim you hit her, which would result in you paying 13+ years of alimony for both her and the kid, without the chance of seeing said kids ever again. The reverse just isnt possible. The law revision that is incoming would have the maximum years of alimony down to 5(allthough I'm not sure for the kids), and would result in shared custody that would be very hard to change. Therefore significantly reducing the "perverse" incentive for women when they are not happy in their marriage to file for divorce.

I'm certain that stuff doesnt work the same in the states, but its probably comparable.

I do feel quite strongly about the subject, having seen my parents divorce twice each, and now living with a woman with whom I could easily see myself spending the rest of my life with. However, having seen how an I'll meaning person could abuse the law to obtain a carefree life for a decade (and no, not even a prenup would protect you in this country) has left me very distrustful on this issue.

OT - even though I've seen a lot of marriages crash and burn, I do still think its worth it, just be sure you know the person you're marrying.

Always classy, Jan.
Despite all the change that has happened to SF in the last year or so, there's one thing we can always count on: If someone starts a thread about women, there's a near-one probability that JLib will stop by to spew some hateful misogyny.

More simply the voice of experience. Really, I don't have much to add about women that wasn't said by old Hesiod 2,700+ years ago.

On reflection, though, I suppose women have a considerable right to hate us as much as they do: After all, when you cut through all the romantic BS, our fundamental, basic interest in them is to stick our horrible, purple-veined cocks up inside them and force them to submit to our animal lust and brutality. We are beasts, they are bitches.

More simply the voice of experience. Really, I don't have much to add about women that wasn't said by old Hesiod 2,700+ years ago.

One doesn't have to look too hard to find other men your age with the same amount of experience, just in the other direction. I'd suspect a lot of us who are happily married have some in our families.

Quote:

On reflection, though, I suppose women have a considerable right to hate us as much as they do: After all, when you cut through all the romantic BS, our fundamental, basic interest in them is to stick our horrible, purple-veined cocks up inside them and force them to submit to our animal lust and brutality. We are beasts, they are bitches.

Just sayin', maybe that summation has something to do with your shitty relationships. Chicken and egg problem, perhaps.

Not to overly retread this road, but...
One doesn't have to look too hard to find other men your age with the same amount of experience, just in the other direction. I'd suspect a lot of us who are happily married have some in our families.
Just sayin', maybe that summation has something to do with your shitty relationships. Chicken and egg problem, perhaps.

Well, when I am talking about "animal lust and brutality, etc." I am talking about a very primordial, basic ape level of consciousness. I suspect if I had, as younger man approached relations with the opposite sex with such brutal cynicism, I would have fared much better. Instead, I bought into the whole fallacious underlying mythology of modern heterosexuality: that women, in general, are quite a bit nicer than us--gentle, caring, compassionate, loving, etc., and that a good woman is Life's Ultimate Prize; that if you treat a woman (a normal woman, anyway) with kindness, generosity, tenderness and love, she will repay you in kind, and very probably with interest. And it's all crap! The irony here is that I am quite certain that everybody who meets my present wife must think I am luckiest man in the world--warm, outgoing, caring, fit, youthful, attractive. I (and her son) know the private reality is very different...but in fairness to my wife, in comparing notes with other close friends, I don't think she is probably any more odious than most women.

On reflection, though, I suppose women have a considerable right to hate us as much as they do: After all, when you cut through all the romantic BS, our fundamental, basic interest in them is to stick our horrible, purple-veined cocks up inside them and force them to submit to our animal lust and brutality. We are beasts, they are bitches.

I'd also add that my interest is someone who could cook me a nice meal and go with me to the movies. how ya doing, jan?

I don't think women are any more or less trustworthy then men. However the legal system gives women huge advantages. I do not think any group could be trusted not to abuse this. Counting on a woman who you just divorced to be trustworthy enough to not fuck you over seems a bit risky (counting on a man would be equally risky imo).

You guys are making some mistakes. First, no such thing as "the one." There are at least 100 million women each of us could be happy and contented with. Really, you just have to find one of many good women and put in the effort.

Second, how many times do I have to tell you guys to find a pretty engineer? It seems to be I keep hearing how women think so differently than men and this is the single biggest part of most relationship problems. Simply marry a pretty lady that has been trained in a discipline that facilitates thinking similar to yours.

Not to overly retread this road, but...
One doesn't have to look too hard to find other men your age with the same amount of experience, just in the other direction. I'd suspect a lot of us who are happily married have some in our families.

Last weekend I saw my aunt and uncle who have been married for 67 years. They are a charming couple at age 88, and in great health.

We're different, and should embrace that. Imho one of the biggest mistakes of the feminism movement was the evolution from campaigning for the same rights (with which I agree), to campaigning for the same treatment/positions? (not sure if its the right word).
We definitely realize that. However, currently any woman you marry in the Netherlands could walk into a wall and claim you hit her, which would result in you paying 13+ years of alimony for both her and the kid, without the chance of seeing said kids ever again. The reverse just isnt possible. The law revision that is incoming would have the maximum years of alimony down to 5(allthough I'm not sure for the kids), and would result in shared custody that would be very hard to change. Therefore significantly reducing the "perverse" incentive for women when they are not happy in their marriage to file for divorce.
I'm certain that stuff doesnt work the same in the states, but its probably comparable.
I do feel quite strongly about the subject, having seen my parents divorce twice each, and now living with a woman with whom I could easily see myself spending the rest of my life with. However, having seen how an I'll meaning person could abuse the law to obtain a carefree life for a decade (and no, not even a prenup would protect you in this country) has left me very distrustful on this issue.
OT - even though I've seen a lot of marriages crash and burn, I do still think its worth it, just be sure you know the person you're marrying.

Also, be sure that you really know yourself, what you can/cannot put up with, and if you are really ready for marriage.