Go to page

Go to page

Go to page

TIA Regular

They're not cover though. How much has Lovren and Matip played between them? With a top CB around he would play loads. Gomez misses games and covers RB. If it was someone like Romagnoli you might find he could play pretty much every game appropriate taking into account missed games and rest. We really need to get past a starting 11 and cover players. It's not the reality anymore.

If they are here to play Lcb/LB then they are not starting ahead of VVD and Robertson.

Gomez is our starter at RcB. The incoming player has to be convinced that there will be a chance to dislodge him otherwise again he will be cover. Its not me you or the club have to convince about the importance of cover - its the incoming player who has a firm idea as to where he should be in the pecking order.

Well-Known Member

If they are here to play Lcb/LB then they are not starting ahead of VVD and Robertson.

Gomez is our starter at RcB. The incoming player has to be convinced that there will be a chance to dislodge him otherwise again he will be cover. Its not me you or the club have to convince about the importance of cover - its the incoming player who has a firm idea as to where he should be in the pecking order.

Well-Known Member

If they are here to play Lcb/LB then they are not starting ahead of VVD and Robertson.

Gomez is our starter at RcB. The incoming player has to be convinced that there will be a chance to dislodge him otherwise again he will be cover. Its not me you or the club have to convince about the importance of cover - its the incoming player who has a firm idea as to where he should be in the pecking order.

In 33 games Gomez has managed 18 so far. Two of them from the bench. He's also played 5 of those 18 at RB. VvD has had no injuries and hardly been rested (always a bit of a risk) and Gomez hasn't covered Alexander-Arnold as much as Trent maybe needed it. It would be incredibly easy to persuade a CB they were coming in to be a starting option. Especially if being bought for big money and seeing an established senior CB move on like Lovren or Matip.

Well-Known Member

If they are here to play Lcb/LB then they are not starting ahead of VVD and Robertson.

Gomez is our starter at RcB. The incoming player has to be convinced that there will be a chance to dislodge him otherwise again he will be cover. Its not me you or the club have to convince about the importance of cover - its the incoming player who has a firm idea as to where he should be in the pecking order.

Well-Known Member

Yet again Google is your friend. You are telling people they are wrong for widely known facts why don't you look into it before telling others they are wrong. And no. No that very rarely happens as conflicts in interest are USUALLY discouraged.

The position Gill took on the board of Directors at the FA (not the league, but the FA) was a position specifically allocated to representatives of the Premier League clubs. It was one of, I think, 4 such seats. So no, the perceived conflict is not remotely discouraged.

It is also important to note that he did not get the position until 2006. So, if we're going to allocate a significant portion of Utd's success to Gill's influence because of his position with the FA, how do we explain their prior 15 years?

TIA Regular

In 33 games Gomez has managed 18 so far. Two of them from the bench. He's also played 5 of those 18 at RB. VvD has had no injuries and hardly been rested (always a bit of a risk) and Gomez hasn't covered Alexander-Arnold as much as Trent maybe needed it. It would be incredibly easy to persuade a CB they were coming in to be a starting option. Especially if being bought for big money and seeing an established senior CB move on like Lovren or Matip.

That case is much harder to make should Gomez return early next month and have no problems for the remainder of the season. Especially, if the club decide to no longer play him at RB (wasnt he playing RB when he picked up his most recent injury?).

Well-Known Member

That case is much harder to make should Gomez return early next month and have no problems for the remainder of the season. Especially, if the club decide to no longer play him at RB (wasnt he playing RB when he picked up his most recent injury?).

In all fairness, as much as I want it to be true, that's two massive "IF" points there. He's still seemingly Klopps second choice RB until a change is made and acknowledged. And I don't think any CB goes a third of a season without missing a single game anyway. Even Van Dijk is already set to miss one in the Champions League and he's the least likely outfield player in our squad to be rested and rarely picks up injuries. I'd guess, best case scenario, Gomez will play 75% of our remaining games. Most but not all at CB. That leaves Matip and Lovren covering up to half our games for Gomez and any Van Dijk misses too between them. Even if a new CB is coming in under the belief he will be behind Gomez in the pecking order he will probably be thinking he can potentially get 30-40 starts at CB in all comps. If we are spending big on an established CB though they are likely to believe that Gomez will be the one covering for them not the other way around. What happens after they've arrived will depend on performance and availability though. Lovren and Matip already have 27 appearances between them this season. There's easily enough room for another top class CB.

We'll go again!

Can I repeat Wilf Zaha? We know JK admires the player. He literally has two defenders hanging on him every moment of every game and still creates chances and scores goals. The space he’d get with us because there are others that would occupy opposing defences...he’d rip them to shreds!

Well-Known Member

The position Gill took on the board of Directors at the FA (not the league, but the FA) was a position specifically allocated to representatives of the Premier League clubs. It was one of, I think, 4 such seats. So no, the perceived conflict is not remotely discouraged.

It is also important to note that he did not get the position until 2006. So, if we're going to allocate a significant portion of Utd's success to Gill's influence because of his position with the FA, how do we explain their prior 15 years?

Money. Miles and miles ahead of everyone else the first 10 years or so of that 15 years. Arsenal won the PL a couple of times but that was before they had to start paying for the new stadium. Then Roman bought Chelsea and they could challenge United in the transfer market.

Many referees also admitted that they got bullied by Ferguson but was to scared to report it. They probably won a few titles because of that. Ferguson also admitted that the bullying was a part of his tactics. He wanted to destroy referees and make them scared of him. He screamed a lot at the referees during the games.

TIA Regular

Can I repeat Wilf Zaha? We know JK admires the player. He literally has two defenders hanging on him every moment of every game and still creates chances and scores goals. The space he’d get with us because there are others that would occupy opposing defences...he’d rip them to shreds!

I think there are still doubts about his overall workrate particularly in regards to his defensive side and his numbers - doesnt get as many assists/goals that would probably be needed for the price he would cost given his age.

Well-Known Member

Money. Miles and miles ahead of everyone else the first 10 years or so of that 15 years. Arsenal won the PL a couple of times but that was before they had to start paying for the new stadium. Then Roman bought Chelsea and they could challenge United in the transfer market.

Many referees also admitted that they got bullied by Ferguson but was to scared to report it. They probably won a few titles because of that. Ferguson also admitted that the bullying was a part of his tactics. He wanted to destroy referees and make them scared of him. He screamed a lot at the referees during the games.

deeply superficial

I like Ake quite a bit, but probably wouldn't want to spend the money it would take to get him in as a reliable 3rd CB option. I think he'd do fine next to VVD or Gomez if one was out though. He has a calmness in his game that is reassuring.

I'd prioritize a youngish LB we can bring in to groom as an understudy, and depending on how klopp views Wilson, a winger to compete/ back up with mane or shaqiri. Hopefully Wilson will tick that box, but if not id spend about our entire budget on Zaha or the like. Moving Salah to central striker, I'd like an option besides shaq to come in on the right.

If we can find a good, reliable (usually healthy) CB for not outrageous money, I'd do that as well, but I'm fine having Matip be fourth choice CB. Has to be about the best 4 choice CB in the league.

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers

I like Ake quite a bit, but probably wouldn't want to spend the money it would take to get him in as a reliable 3rd CB option. I think he'd do fine next to VVD or Gomez if one was out though. He has a calmness in his game that is reassuring.

I'd prioritize a youngish LB we can bring in to groom as an understudy

Think the reason why Aké gets mentioned so often is the fact that he can also cover LB - on the same level Joe Gomez plays at RB IMO. I don't know if there are other CBs who could also cover LB.

-not as good as Lovren or Matip at the moment
-for a CB he is 'small'

+can cover LB
+faster and more agile than Lovren and Matip
+high potential and he would improve massively under Klopp and next to VvD

Aké would be an interesting choice but he is not a 'no brainer'. Probably wouldn't come cheap and i'm pretty sure Chelsea have still something to say about his future (matching right/return clause/sell on clause).

Well-Known Member

Think the reason why Aké gets mentioned so often is the fact that he can also cover LB - on the same level Joe Gomez plays at RB IMO. I don't know if there are other CBs who could also cover LB.

-not as good as Lovren or Matip at the moment
-for a CB he is 'small'

+can cover LB
+faster and more agile than Lovren and Matip
+high potential and he would improve massively under Klopp and next to VvD

Aké would be an interesting choice but he is not a 'no brainer'. Probably wouldn't come cheap and i'm pretty sure Chelsea have still something to say about his future (matching right/return clause/sell on clause).

I've mentioned Romagnoli before. I'm not sure AC Milan would sell at all but if they did I could imagine him being around the same price Ake would be if sold. Maybe even cheaper. And the Italian is a captain, full international, probably as good as Lovren/Matip and still a tall player. I think Ake simply gets mentioned so much because of familiarity. If he'd been a Roma youth player ended up at Genoa instead of Chelsea and Bournemouth we probably wouldn't even recognise his name based on ability and performance.

Fighting like beavers.

I doubt we'll go for another versatile player like that. On paper it sounds nice, but I don't think Ake at LB or CB brings improvement. I like the kid, but more progress is needed. With the lack of a proper lefty on the left in front of Robbo, suddenly having to play Ake (who's now more of a CB) instead of Robbo if he's missing, it changes completely how we have to attack. I could understand when Rafa in more of a lack of money and more of an organized system wanted Heinze (a solid, experienced LCB/LB), but I doubt we'll do it here now. We might tolerate it on one side like with Gomez (and that's also probably short-term before we finally have 4 proper senior full backs), but with our full back play, how much they're involved, I don't think Klopp would go in next season with Gomez (let's not forget how well he's played at CB this season, but I agree that we have to see if there's another quality CB option out there that's better than Lovren/Matip) and Ake as our full back backups.

Left wing.

With Solanke gone, Sturridge in the winter of his career, and Origi, well stalled, it looks to me that we'll be getting a striker in the summer. Hopefully one with established credibility. I'll have to leave it to you guys to moot who that should or might be, but there is an obvious gap in the squad here.

Spreading the word of St Igor

With Solanke gone, Sturridge in the winter of his career, and Origi, well stalled, it looks to me that we'll be getting a striker in the summer. Hopefully one with a established credibility. I'll have to leave it to you guys to moot who that should or might be, but there is an obvious gap in the squad here.

I think from next season Brewster will be stepping into Solanke's role as young, development striker to mostly come off the bench. But I think we do have scope to bring in a more senior player who can rotate with certainly Firmino and ideally at least one other member of the regular front 3... I can see why Werner is the name being mentioned regularly given that he could play either up front or (afaik) in Mane's role on the left of the attack, while seeming to have the quality to push for a starting spot. On the whole I could live with that scenario.

Caradoc

Guest

Ake has played most of his senior matches for The Netherlands at left back. I think he'd be an excellent squad signing as he can also play CDM. I suspect we’d see a much better player if Klopp got his hands on the lad.

TIA Regular

We need a new CB in next summer to replace one of Matip or Lovren. I'm not concerned about Gomez long term from this leg break. Breaks are complicated as everyone heals differently, but breaks do heal well, and are not susceptible to recurrence like joint injuries are (which of course Gomez has suffered in the past).

But thinking about what I'd like to see squad depth wise for the CB positions, it's got to be 4 fit and ready CBs. VVD would be the main in our case, with two good options rotating for the 2nd berth (Gomez and hopefully a new CB). Then Matip/Lovren is the 4th choice. Bit too soon for Ki Jana I feel, and I think we can rely on Fabinho, however he's creative and able to orchestrate the games from No.6 so that should only be a back up option.

No idea who could fill the spot of one of Matip or Lovren, should they leave. Ake an interesting one, but would cost a lot, and as covered earlier, Chelsea probably have some option clause. Signing one of the top CBs would always be nice - but don't see us doing a another 50m+ CB.

Anyways, came in here to say the recent murmurings from Keita and Mane, although probably a result of journalists questions, see his name being mentioned once again. What's not to like at the prospect of Werner joining. I'd be happy to see him replace Sturridge in the squad.

Also saw that Icardi has been stripped of his captaincy at Inter. He seems to have a bit of history with falling out with people and being in the news for the wrong reasons - he's very skillful and might be another option that will attract the interest of the usual suspects in the PL, Spain, Italy and Germany. Werner over Icardi for me. He's younger, and fits the style of play better - if we are in the hunt for a striker. All down to Brewster?

Well-Known Member

Why not? He is not falling apart like Sturridge did. He just keeps getting wacked. Carra suffered a season ending knee injury in 2001-02 and then lost half a season to a broken leg in 03-04, because he wsa just unlucky. It did not make him injury prone or unreliable.

deeply superficial

Why not? He is not falling apart like Sturridge did. He just keeps getting wacked. Carra suffered a season ending knee injury in 2001-02 and then lost half a season to a broken leg in 03-04, because he wsa just unlucky. It did not make him injury prone or unreliable.

I agree with you but if you are looking for similarities to Sturridge, you can point to setbacks in recovery from all his niggles (or...borken legs, depending on what counts as a niggle lol) so he stays out longer than is usually forecast. But that seems overly harsh.

TIA Regular

I agree with you but if you are looking for similarities to Sturridge, you can point to setbacks in recovery from all his niggles (or...borken legs, depending on what counts as a niggle lol) so he stays out longer than is usually forecast. But that seems overly harsh.

Well-Known Member

I agree with you but if you are looking for similarities to Sturridge, you can point to setbacks in recovery from all his niggles (or...borken legs, depending on what counts as a niggle lol) so he stays out longer than is usually forecast. But that seems overly harsh.

He has had one "set-back" to one injury (a result of a bad tackle), and that has, allegedly, not even extended his absence. It has only pushed it out side of the window that was stated by non-club sources.