It's a bit more than that, it's a class-action suit. They're usually started by one person whose name is on the suit. Others who are concerned about the situation (and who have a hell of a lot more invested than I do) will join. I don't think it's the wait that has people worried, it's the battle between the people who hold the code and the person who holds the money (that's oversimplifying it) and the perception that the project is not moving as a result. It doesn't help that there has been a stream of stories in which Tezos is cited as an example of a crypto plan gone bad.

It also didn't help that one of the founders said people should consider the BTC and ETH they put into it as a donation, not an investment. A $232 million donation, worth half a billion dollars now thanks to Bitcoin's huge gains. That's some donation.

If it isn't a class action lawsuit, it will become one, and it will be nationwide.

Somebody somewhere (Reddit?) stated that the complainant was ineligible to participate because of KYC regulations and the suit would be tossed out. I don't believe that for a second. The Foundation has the responsibility to determine the eligibility, and not just rubber-stamp the application and collect the coins.

Reuters reports that the Tezos founders want to use the money raised in the ICO to cover any costs they incur in the multiple fraud lawsuits brought against them. I don't see how this can be allowed, since the lawsuits seek refunds from the same source, plus damages.

If they are required to refund investors, it ought to be exactly what was contributed, not cash. If you sent them 1 BTC, you should get 1 BTC back... not the $2500 and change that 1 BTC was worth at the time.

Long John wrote:Reuters reports that the Tezos founders want to use the money raised in the ICO to cover any costs they incur in the multiple fraud lawsuits brought against them. I don't see how this can be allowed, since the lawsuits seek refunds from the same source, plus damages.

If they are required to refund investors, it ought to be exactly what was contributed, not cash. If you sent them 1 BTC, you should get 1 BTC back... not the $2500 and change that 1 BTC was worth at the time.

What is the alternative? What funds should they use? It isn't like all investors want their money back, so they'll be able to afford it, even if investors do win this lawsuit (which I doubt). These investors are hurting themselves. Unless there is real fraud going on, they are just slowing down the team from developing the Tezos blockchain. We all want to see this project a success and some people obviously invested more than they could afford to lose. Never break the first rule of crypto.

SilverDoge wrote:So on 10DEC17, the XTZ price was $3.30. So on 10DEC18 if the USD price of (the actual) Tezos is $3.31 or above I would win, and if it is $3.30 or less I would lose? And I get 10:1 odds, right?

You guys crack me up.

I don't do 10-1. You either win 1 Oz or lose 1 Oz. Price is $3.31 It has to be higher to win on 10DEC2018.

SilverDoge wrote:So on 10DEC17, the XTZ price was $3.30. So on 10DEC18 if the USD price of (the actual) Tezos is $3.31 or above I would win, and if it is $3.30 or less I would lose? And I get 10:1 odds, right?

You guys crack me up.

I don't do 10-1. You either win 1 Oz or lose 1 Oz. Price is $3.31 It has to be higher to win on 10DEC2018.

Is there anyone here who is SO determinedly long that they would not take $5.25 each for the Tezos they bought for 40 cents or so? My little bag, which cost $255 worth of Bitcoin (at the time) is "worth" more than $3,000 if that IOU price on BTC is to be believed. I don't believe it. I think it's a lure to get me to deposit $3,000 worth of Bitcoin with them in order to sell my Tezos to... who, HitBTC? And they only have to give my Bitcoin back if they sell the Tezos at $5.25 or more once it's launched? Is that how it works?

Long John wrote:Is there anyone here who is SO determinedly long that they would not take $5.25 each for the Tezos they bought for 40 cents or so? My little bag, which cost $255 worth of Bitcoin (at the time) is "worth" more than $3,000 if that IOU price on BTC is to be believed. I don't believe it. I think it's a lure to get me to deposit $3,000 worth of Bitcoin with them in order to sell my Tezos to... who, HitBTC? And they only have to give my Bitcoin back if they sell the Tezos at $5.25 or more once it's launched? Is that how it works?

I know people that would absolutely not sell for $5.25. They think Tezos is easily a top 5-10 coin which puts it in the double digit billions. I am skeptical of that, but there are believers out there. One valid point I heard was that Tezos has been in development since about 2014. If you look at what EOS is doing I guess it isn't all that surprising. EOS is probably near the same level of development, still in ICO, has only sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-ish percent of its actual tokens and it is mooning.

I wouldn't call it a lure for an ICO investor. You already have claim to your tezzies. It is a lure for those who missed the ICO, or who weren't in crypto during the ICO but want in now, etc. Would I personally buy at these prices? No, but that is because I have a position already. If I was trying to guess the next ETH though and I got into crypto in the last 6 months, I would likely split up some money and put half in EOS and half in XTZ and roll the dice.

HitBTC is not the bag holder here. These are actual customers exchanging the IOU tokens. The key is that you can't withdraw these yet, so they all exist on HitBTC's exchange. They are coupons for really Tezzies once it is launched because HitBTC mush have bought some amount during the ICO, so that they could create this market. It's actually a decent strategy because now they are currently the only source (exchange) where a person can go and buy Tezos on the market. Therefore if somebody wants Tezos before launch, they have to create a HitBTC account.

Travis, I have no basis to dispute your points about Tezos' upside. I just have a hard time believing the price ($5.64 this morning) given the nature of the news about it since the ICO, and it may be manipulated by HitBTC itself.

I was tempted to sell back when it was much less than this and created a HitBTC account. I got as far as discovering I would have to deposit Bitcoin to cover the sale, to remain there with HitBTC presumably reaping the BTC increases, until Tezos is launched. I backed out of there and haven't been back since. Once Tezos launches, Is only the original cash value of my BTC, not the actual BTC at current value, available for withdrawal? I wish someone here who has done it would explain.

Long John wrote:Travis, I have no basis to dispute your points about Tezos' upside. I just have a hard time believing the price ($5.64 this morning) given the nature of the news about it since the ICO, and it may be manipulated by HitBTC itself.

If you didn't believe that $5 price, how do you like the current price?

Bucketeer wrote:Those are "per-launch" prices, and therefore meaningless. QTUM did the same thing, pre-launch.

I can't wait to hear your price comments after the filings are submitted to the docket. We'll see national TV ads for claimants from lawyers.

Your Ponzi is doomed.

I do love a good battle. I am fully aware that those are pre-launch prices, but the reality is that somebody is paying those prices to get access to the future Tezzies even with the lawsuits and headaches. Sometimes the technical innovations are worth the risks.

You also need to re-look the definition on a Ponzi. While Tezos may be a poor investment in the long run, it surely isn't a Ponzi like BitConnect.