I don't even know if it's possible to be excited at this point, but Warner Bros. has released the first full Justice League trailer. It looks ... more of the same, really.

There's a bunch of context-free action, there are a couple of jokes, it's all darker than it should be, and we get to see a bunch of the heroes - only two of which have had any significant screen time in previous movies - team up and fight the bad guys.

Missing from it all? Henry Cavill's Superman. Those who have seen Batman v Superman know why, as it appears Justice League will, for at least a while, play up the final few moments of that movie.

The tone is all over the place. The visuals are drab and dull like the previous films, and the plot is most likely going to be very serious. But they've got upbeat music and jokes thrown in in an attempt to make it seem upbeat, like Guardians of the Galaxy. It all clashes, resulting in a film that doesn't seem like it knows what it wants to be. I suspect that there was heavy executive meddling from incompetent WB executives who are trying to hit various demographics and nail whats popular in the moment. The result will most likely be a predictable mess that will inevitably be rebooted down the line.

EDIT: And why does it feel like Zack Snyder still has so much influence when he's released more duds then successes at this point? Studios need to stop letting him jizz his nerdy middle school note book doodles all over the big screen.

This just, for some reason, screams "Michael Bay's Avengers" to me... I dunno why, but it feels like its just all big setpiece boom action and nothing of substance. I'm not saying Whedon's Avengers was deep and full of substance, but it didn't make me feel "meh" after watching the first major trailer...

Also it just hit me, the reason they use so many licensed songs in these movies...WB has a music label or something, doesnt it?

Yes, indeed they do!

They are one of the "Big Three", along with Sony and Universal. Not really all that shocked by how much licensed music they use, really, since they have a lots to pull from.

They abuse that power. I noticed it in Suicide Squad before.

In relation to the forced humor, I think perhaps Guardian of the Galaxy maybe made them think using contrasting songs will make it funny without realizing -why- the music did work in Guardians. I mean, I like most of the music they pick, but the way they haphazardly use it realy takes me out of the movie, and for comic book movies, that shouldnt be easy to do for me (beyond blatantly getting characters wrong).

I don't really know what to think about this to be honest. I'd love to go into it thinking it'll be great but quite frankly after the utter trainwrecks that have comprised the rest of the DC films I fully expect this to be complete and total wank. It's a real shame because I want these to be good but I'm sure not going to see it in the cinema - WB have already taken enough of my money for a set of mediocre-to-trash films so I'll just wait for this one to hit DVD before I see it.

But yeah, not too sure what to think. The enemies are supposed to be something to do with Darkseid I think, but they look pretty generic to me. Because the film hasn't done origins for most of the main cast I expect a decent portion of this film will be spent explaining who they are, which doesn't sound like good film-making to me. I'm not fooled by the one or two wisecracks or fun music in the trailer - Suicide Squad did the same thing and it didn't represent the final product there so why should it this time around? Part of me thinks it might at least be a decent action flick but I dunno. Guess I'll find out when it gets a home release.

Also, does anyone else think Cyborg looks oddly skinny? I've always pictured him (or he always seems to me to be pictured) as a big burly robot-bloke but here he looks practically waifish.

Kibeth41:Jesus Christ. Can you write an article that isn't so fucking jaded the entire way through?

Marter is rather jaded about a lot of things... *gazes in the direction of the Rogue One rant/review*

Hating the trailer because you didn't like BvS is like hating Civil War because the first Captain America movie was lame.

I didn't see any 'hate' in the write-up at all, I see the kind of skepticism and anxiety that comes from someone having watched past Warner efforts to build their DCCU on fast-forward. I quite liked the trailer, but Warner have proved they can craft some catastrophically terrible films, so no one's sure until they actually see Justice League.

And as someone else pointed out; the first Cap movie was well received and a lot of people regard it very fondly (fans and some non-nerdy film critics alike).

Civil War's trailer (we're talking about trailers and responses, here, not films) arrived after numerous films and hits (critical and commercial), so even if The First Avenger had been panned or shunned, Marvel Studios/Disney build up some serious goodwill.

The movie looks dark. Not like in terms of tone, but lighting. Like they just couldn't bother to light the set. Also, the movie apparently now has jokes. I'm happy to see a bit of humor in this, but it feels so out of place. Like someone took the script for what is an "edgy" film and added contextless jokes into it.

And cyborg still looks horrible. Like he's being rendered with a PS2. It's so bad that I almost didn't notice that I hate his character design. Though, I think I hate Aquaman's character design even more.

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to this film. Maybe I'm just too much of a skeptic or a cynic, but I'm not expecting much from this. Then again, BvS and MoS were dumpster fires, and I didn't even bother with Suicide Squad.

Also it just hit me, the reason they use so many licensed songs in these movies...WB has a music label or something, doesnt it?

Yes, indeed they do!

They are one of the "Big Three", along with Sony and Universal. Not really all that shocked by how much licensed music they use, really, since they have a lots to pull from.

They abuse that power. I noticed it in Suicide Squad before.

In relation to the forced humor, I think perhaps Guardian of the Galaxy maybe made them think using contrasting songs will make it funny without realizing -why- the music did work in Guardians. I mean, I like most of the music they pick, but the way they haphazardly use it realy takes me out of the movie, and for comic book movies, that shouldnt be easy to do for me (beyond blatantly getting characters wrong).

Now that you bring it up, the song really doesn't fit with the apparent tone of the trailer or movie. I like the song, but it's just not the right song for Justice League. Sort of seems like someone said, "Hey, this song says 'come together' and the Justice League is forming in this movie! Oh, let's use this song for the trailer!". Which... Yeah, just doesn't work. It's like a really bad AMV.

Also it just hit me, the reason they use so many licensed songs in these movies...WB has a music label or something, doesnt it?

Yes, indeed they do!

They are one of the "Big Three", along with Sony and Universal. Not really all that shocked by how much licensed music they use, really, since they have a lots to pull from.

They abuse that power. I noticed it in Suicide Squad before.

In relation to the forced humor, I think perhaps Guardian of the Galaxy maybe made them think using contrasting songs will make it funny without realizing -why- the music did work in Guardians. I mean, I like most of the music they pick, but the way they haphazardly use it realy takes me out of the movie, and for comic book movies, that shouldnt be easy to do for me (beyond blatantly getting characters wrong).

That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

I don't think it's Warner's fault there, but it might have to do with the marketing team. I mean, why pay for music outside of your company's scope when you can look at their catalogue and pick and choose. Royalty payments are much, much cheaper that way.

That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

I don't think it's Warner's fault there, but it might have to do with the marketing team. I mean, why pay for music outside of your company's scope when you can look at their catalogue and pick and choose. Royalty payments are much, much cheaper that way.

Oh, If I was them, Id only use from my own catalogue unless that truly perfect song was outside of it, but just because you can, doesnt mean you should. Use the right songs at the right times. Dont just use all the songs because you can.

That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

I don't think it's Warner's fault there, but it might have to do with the marketing team. I mean, why pay for music outside of your company's scope when you can look at their catalogue and pick and choose. Royalty payments are much, much cheaper that way.

Oh, If I was them, Id only use from my own catalogue unless that truly perfect song was outside of it, but just because you can, doesnt mean you should. Use the right songs at the right times. Dont just use all the songs because you can.

Oh, totally.

The music in the trailer was garbage, and just didn't fit at all. Which makes me wonder what they're trying to do with the movie, and the Justice League series in general because you know there are going to be sequels.

I mean, it almost made sense for the Suicide Squad because of the angle they were trying to do. Here? Not buying it.

That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

I don't think it's Warner's fault there, but it might have to do with the marketing team. I mean, why pay for music outside of your company's scope when you can look at their catalogue and pick and choose. Royalty payments are much, much cheaper that way.

Oh, If I was them, Id only use from my own catalogue unless that truly perfect song was outside of it, but just because you can, doesnt mean you should. Use the right songs at the right times. Dont just use all the songs because you can.

Oh, totally.

The music in the trailer was garbage, and just didn't fit at all. Which makes me wonder what they're trying to do with the movie, and the Justice League series in general because you know there are going to be sequels.

I mean, it almost made sense for the Suicide Squad because of the angle they were trying to do. Here? Not buying it.

Well, the music was chosen for only one thing really.It's a cover of Come Together by The Beatles. A terrible cover from the sounds of it.They wanted a song that sounded like a call to action, something hype-y and such, and they thought that Come Together fitted.Although I think the original is under licence by Sony, so they had to choose a shitty cover of it from their own stock.

Naturally, choosing a shitty cover of a great and much loved song only makes it more obvious that the movie pretty much will be a shitty cover of another great and loved movie, The Avengers.Sooo ... perfect choice there WB.

Saelune:Oh, If I was them, Id only use from my own catalogue unless that truly perfect song was outside of it, but just because you can, doesnt mean you should. Use the right songs at the right times. Dont just use all the songs because you can.

Oh, totally.

The music in the trailer was garbage, and just didn't fit at all. Which makes me wonder what they're trying to do with the movie, and the Justice League series in general because you know there are going to be sequels.

I mean, it almost made sense for the Suicide Squad because of the angle they were trying to do. Here? Not buying it.

Well, the music was chosen for only one thing really.It's a cover of Come Together by The Beatles. A terrible cover from the sounds of it.They wanted a song that sounded like a call to action, something hype-y and such, and they thought that Come Together fitted.Although I think the original is under licence by Sony, so they had to choose a shitty cover of it from their own stock.

Naturally, choosing a shitty cover of a great and much loved song only makes it more obvious that the movie pretty much will be a shitty cover of another great and loved movie, The Avengers.Sooo ... perfect choice there WB.

I think they chose that shitty version is because, to my knowledge, no one has the rights to the Beatles. I mean, I know both Sony and Michael Jackson owned them, but that fell apart once MK died. So, yeah.

Still, I think that music choice was terrible. They could have chosen a different song for that purpose and not that God-awful song.

Anyways, I think they're trying too hard to get the tone from the Marvel movies of having both serious moments and goofiness. Seems forced to me, but, we'll see.

Yes, indeed they do!

They are one of the "Big Three", along with Sony and Universal. Not really all that shocked by how much licensed music they use, really, since they have a lots to pull from.

They abuse that power. I noticed it in Suicide Squad before.

In relation to the forced humor, I think perhaps Guardian of the Galaxy maybe made them think using contrasting songs will make it funny without realizing -why- the music did work in Guardians. I mean, I like most of the music they pick, but the way they haphazardly use it realy takes me out of the movie, and for comic book movies, that shouldnt be easy to do for me (beyond blatantly getting characters wrong).

That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

I don't think it's Warner's fault there, but it might have to do with the marketing team. I mean, why pay for music outside of your company's scope when you can look at their catalogue and pick and choose. Royalty payments are much, much cheaper that way.

Dude its pretty much a trend that is replacing Inception Horn.

Mass Effect Andromeda has licensed music track for its trailer.

Star Trek Beyond had it with Beyonce.

This is the current thing with Trailers now back than it was Inception Horn sometimes mixed with dubstep, than it was epic Choir Bombing "ho ho ho hoh!!""

Anyway I am gonna bash on Marvel to balance this anti DC shit out, because I am getting tired of people putting Marvel on a pedestal.

My target is the upcoming Spiderman movie and its.....fuckin Poster:

This poster tells me everything what Marvel is gonna do to Spiderman. Yeah Spidey, were some stupid jacket, listen to music head those headphones, not a care in the world, you are totally taking "With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility" thing seriously now aren't you :P

Seriously they are turning Spiderman into fucking Deadpool, fuck you Marvel.

In relation to the forced humor, I think perhaps Guardian of the Galaxy maybe made them think using contrasting songs will make it funny without realizing -why- the music did work in Guardians. I mean, I like most of the music they pick, but the way they haphazardly use it realy takes me out of the movie, and for comic book movies, that shouldnt be easy to do for me (beyond blatantly getting characters wrong).

That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

I don't think it's Warner's fault there, but it might have to do with the marketing team. I mean, why pay for music outside of your company's scope when you can look at their catalogue and pick and choose. Royalty payments are much, much cheaper that way.

Dude its pretty much a trend that is replacing Inception Horn.

Mass Effect Andromeda has licensed music track for its trailer.

Star Trek Beyond had it with Beyonce.

This is the current thing with Trailers now back than it was Inception Horn sometimes mixed with dubstep, than it was epic Choir Bombing "ho ho ho hoh!!""

Well, yeah.

That's the point behind a marketing team. They track trends and use those to sell their stuff. Am I surprised that's the trend they went after? No.

Do I still think it's shit? Yes. But I also think that they are trying too many things, and I don't think it will work in their favor.

Well, it was better than the original one. Still looks bad in terms of lighting/CGI, but the characters feel like actual characters. Which...

Imperioratorex Caprae:This just, for some reason, screams "Michael Bay's Avengers" to me... I dunno why, but it feels like its just all big setpiece boom action and nothing of substance.

Is why I can sympathize with this statement, but not entirely agree. I've seen the latest trailer for The Last Knight, and while everyone is complaining about the "feminist conspiracy" because of the girl character, I'm thinking that it's really telling that the only actual 'character' in the trailer is a human, while the Transformer characters are barely characters at all, but at fighting AGAIN.

So, no, even BvS didn't get to the level of Revenge of the Fallen/Age of Extinction.

Imperioratorex Caprae:This just, for some reason, screams "Michael Bay's Avengers" to me... I dunno why, but it feels like its just all big setpiece boom action and nothing of substance. I'm not saying Whedon's Avengers was deep and full of substance, but it didn't make me feel "meh" after watching the first major trailer...

What substance is it lacking in really?

Hawki:Well, it was better than the original one. Still looks bad in terms of lighting/CGI, but the characters feel like actual characters. Which...

Imperioratorex Caprae:This just, for some reason, screams "Michael Bay's Avengers" to me... I dunno why, but it feels like its just all big setpiece boom action and nothing of substance.

Is why I can sympathize with this statement, but not entirely agree. I've seen the latest trailer for The Last Knight, and while everyone is complaining about the "feminist conspiracy" because of the girl character, I'm thinking that it's really telling that the only actual 'character' in the trailer is a human, while the Transformer characters are barely characters at all, but at fighting AGAIN.

So, no, even BvS didn't get to the level of Revenge of the Fallen/Age of Extinction.

People are acusing Michael Bay of a Feminist Conspiracy? I thought people always wrote him off as a meatheaded right winger?

Fiz_The_Toaster:That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

Did he really act as music supervisor on that as well?

(IMBD apparently informs me Michael Rosenbaum was Nick, and Sean Gunn and Michael Rooker were also in the cast. I should've paid attention to the game's cast list/s... )

I've not seen Suicide Squad yet, but I gather that's a particularly terrible example of how to use licensed music. So far in the DC filmverse, Zimmer's under-used theme for Supes in Man Of Steel is the best they've had, and even that arguably felt like it was scoring a Superman from an entirely different [more hopeful/ideologically coherent] film.

Imperioratorex Caprae:This just, for some reason, screams "Michael Bay's Avengers" to me... I dunno why, but it feels like its just all big setpiece boom action and nothing of substance. I'm not saying Whedon's Avengers was deep and full of substance, but it didn't make me feel "meh" after watching the first major trailer...

What substance is it lacking in really?

For me, what it feels like is WB/DC trying to emulate the success of Marvel but without actually realizing what has made Marvel successful in its shared universe. Note that I'm not saying that MCU movies are all that deep, but they do feel more well put together than the last three DC shared universe films. Even the CW-verse TV Shows do a better job of substantiating the material than the films have for DC's recent output. And this is coming from someone who still enjoyed Man of Steel, BvS and Suicide Squad. Despite enjoying them, they just don't make me feel like I've gotta go see them. I don't really care about the universe. Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow are all leaps and bounds better IMO and I've no idea why WB/DC didn't just pull that universe into the film canon... would have worked out soooooo much better and felt more substantial.

Fiz_The_Toaster:That's because James Gunn was behind it, and that guy knows how to pick songs that match the tone and mood. He did the same for Lollipop Chainsaw, too.

Did he really act as music supervisor on that as well?

(IMBD apparently informs me Michael Rosenbaum was Nick, and Sean Gunn and Michael Rooker were also in the cast. I should've paid attention to the game's cast list/s... )

I've not seen Suicide Squad yet, but I gather that's a particularly terrible example of how to use licensed music. So far in the DC filmverse, Zimmer's under-used theme for Supes in Man Of Steel is the best they've had, and even that arguably felt like it was scoring a Superman from an entirely different [more hopeful/ideologically coherent] film.

Yup, he sure did.

Apparently, he went with older songs to fit the mood in whatever Starlord was feeling or doing, and if a song fits with the scene in some random part. The scene with "Cherry Bomb" by the Runaways is a personal favorite of mine.

I personally think Zimmer is grossly misused in the Man of Steel movie. The score he did for Interstellar was fantastic, and I loved his use of organ in the score. I've seen MoS, and I honestly can't remember a single piece of music from it. Damn shame, really.

Thankfully, he's done with dealing with superhero movies, and he's replaced by Junkie XL in this film. I like him, but I have concerns.

Imperioratorex Caprae:This just, for some reason, screams "Michael Bay's Avengers" to me... I dunno why, but it feels like its just all big setpiece boom action and nothing of substance. I'm not saying Whedon's Avengers was deep and full of substance, but it didn't make me feel "meh" after watching the first major trailer...

What substance is it lacking in really?

For me, what it feels like is WB/DC trying to emulate the success of Marvel but without actually realizing what has made Marvel successful in its shared universe. Note that I'm not saying that MCU movies are all that deep, but they do feel more well put together than the last three DC shared universe films. Even the CW-verse TV Shows do a better job of substantiating the material than the films have for DC's recent output. And this is coming from someone who still enjoyed Man of Steel, BvS and Suicide Squad. Despite enjoying them, they just don't make me feel like I've gotta go see them. I don't really care about the universe. Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow are all leaps and bounds better IMO and I've no idea why WB/DC didn't just pull that universe into the film canon... would have worked out soooooo much better and felt more substantial.

I believe the problem is superhero burn out, we have already seen Superhero team ups beating mooks of enemies a 10 times already.

At this point just stop making Superhero movies and making something new. Like make a Fantasy movie like Lord of the Rings and Warcraft please.

I don't know, I think the trailer looks like the movie will be better than BvS. I'm at least more hopeful for it, if only so Batman has people to play off of, because I fall into the camp that he's better when he's not alone.

Also, Wonder Woman really likes that leg sweep move, doesn't she? She uses it in her movie trailer, and she uses it in this one. Same slow mo effect and everything.

Also, for the love of all things holy, can we get some light in these movies? Seriously, why is everything washed out and/or dark? It hurts to look at sometimes.

I believe the problem is superhero burn out, we have already seen Superhero team ups beating mooks of enemies a 10 times already.

At this point just stop making Superhero movies and making something new. Like make a Fantasy movie like Lord of the Rings and Warcraft please.

For me its not even that. The overall tone of the WB/DC universe is so grimdark it just doesn't feel like a proper translation of the comics. I don't mean the narrative tone so much as the visual tone. Sure, Batman as a comic is dark, thanks to the work of Frank Miller, but even still the palette used in coloring the DC comics is still so much brighter than the Snyderverse. Even Tim Burton's Batman movies had a better visual tone that fit within the comic styling. MCU movies tend to have that more often than not as well, even in their darker stories.BvS, Man of Steel, Suicide Squad, and the trailers for WW and JL all have that same visual tone that just makes it feel awfully dark and depressive, regardless of narrative. That overall makes it feel like there's nothing substantive about it, and also makes me feel like its the whole "we're grimdark because its more adult" type approach to comic filmmaking. And overall that feels wrong for this universe.

I believe the problem is superhero burn out, we have already seen Superhero team ups beating mooks of enemies a 10 times already.

At this point just stop making Superhero movies and making something new. Like make a Fantasy movie like Lord of the Rings and Warcraft please.

For me its not even that. The overall tone of the WB/DC universe is so grimdark it just doesn't feel like a proper translation of the comics. I don't mean the narrative tone so much as the visual tone. Sure, Batman as a comic is dark, thanks to the work of Frank Miller, but even still the palette used in coloring the DC comics is still so much brighter than the Snyderverse. Even Tim Burton's Batman movies had a better visual tone that fit within the comic styling. MCU movies tend to have that more often than not as well, even in their darker stories.BvS, Man of Steel, Suicide Squad, and the trailers for WW and JL all have that same visual tone that just makes it feel awfully dark and depressive, regardless of narrative. That overall makes it feel like there's nothing substantive about it, and also makes me feel like its the whole "we're grimdark because its more adult" type approach to comic filmmaking. And overall that feels wrong for this universe.

Yet when Marvel turns Spiderman into Millenial Deadpool, they say it fits with the comic book aproach and therefore have substance :P

Fiz_The_Toaster:Apparently, he went with older songs to fit the mood in whatever Starlord was feeling or doing, and if a song fits with the scene in some random part. The scene with "Cherry Bomb" by the Runaways is a personal favorite of mine.

Hm, Cherry Bomb's a bit of a cheat for me, given almost any scene could be great with it...

A lot was made of Guardians' choice of tracks, but the devil's in the detail with how they were used, i.e. straddling the non-diagetic/diagetic fence to both affect a very 'cinematic' feel, whilst transitioning to exterior or interior shots and having the track sourced from his speakers in the ship, replete with acoustics.

I personally believe the original score for that film's been overshadowed, too, as it has some great moments.

I personally think Zimmer is grossly misused in the Man of Steel movie. The score he did for Interstellar was fantastic, and I loved his use of organ in the score. I've seen MoS, and I honestly can't remember a single piece of music from it. Damn shame, really.

This is the scene that always stuck with me, at least up to around the 2.40 mark:

I like the melody and most of the arrangement. It had real potential, even if the film didn't make the most of it.

I adore Interstellar so I'm biased, but yeah, I loved that score. Some objected to the, erm, sudden bouts of organ, but for me that film was always '2001 by way of Terrence Malick', and Malick's films have featured organs quite prominently at times (Alexander Desplat for The Tree Of Life, and Zimmer for The Thin Red Line - the very opening scene uses a sustained organ chord). The piece for the launch sequence is one of my favourites, particularly as the music begins and builds across a handful of scenes and days/nights. Phenomenal sound design as a whole, too.

Thankfully, he's done with dealing with superhero movies, and he's replaced by Junkie XL in this film. I like him, but I have concerns.

I would say he's hit'n'miss, but frankly no composer on a mainstream film's ever really going to be a surefire bet. I'm a big fan of the MCU, but their original scores are mostly little more than functional accompaniments. It never takes away from the films, however, so I could never call them bad.

2 disappointing things about this - the casting is excellent, but fuck me, do I not care about the film coming from the trailer. And second, why on earth would you cast Jason Momoa and make him cover up those sweet abs of his? That's like putting a sheet over the Mona Lisa, just let the man walk around shirtless in every scene. God knows I'd go watch this in cinemas then.