I never had any attachments to the side characters anyway (in the comics/animation). So it never bothered me if we saw the traditional mobsters, cops like Bullock, Holly Robinson, etc or not. Whatever we got was a bonus in my eyes.

Jen was still Holly to me, even though i agree that it didn't matter. Because it's true, these small characters weren't there to serve the fans or for the actual characters themselves. They were there to serve the story. They're almost disposable in this case. You have them serve that part of the story and then it kinda doesn't matter whether you kill them off, lock em' away or leave them hanging. That's not really the point.

Some are given a little more time, some not so much. But these kind of movies always need people to fill up these kinds of roles. I can't walk around thinking "This small side character was useless or not developed enough or should have been called Renee Montoya for the hardcore fans". It is what it is and they served their purpose. I didn't mind any of them at all. Even Modine/Foley.

Batman was the ultimate guy in charge, but even in the previous movies, he doesn't exactly keep check on the folks he assigns to do things. He tells them what he needs and lets them do their jobs. We never really see him pass judgment on those doing work on the ground. Even when Dent is doing that to Gordon's cops in TDK, Batman doesn't say a word, even if he might have reservations.

Of course he can't keep check, he has his own task of taking down Bane, but did he assign Foley to that position? and if so how did that meeting with Batman affect Foley? Did Foley demand to lead the army? How did Batman's theatrics have an effect on Foley on a more personal level? I wanted to see at least a single scene like that. You know, to flesh out his arc. Which was my original point before this debate spiraled out into the minutiae of Batman's commandeering skills.

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I'm still not convinced that Foley gave any necessary orders to the police army. Even when he died, they still prevailed.

Perhaps they were already on the edge of victory as Talia ran him down. I don't know. We see very little of the fight between the police army and the LOS. Nolan rushes through the whole sequence. And why shouldn't he? It's not like he highlighted the plight of the downtrodden the entire film, it wasn't important to him or the film.

The whole point of the police battling the mercs was to be a distraction and to focus all the LOS's manpower in one spot, in order to make the primary task of locating the bomb/placing the signal jammer more attainable. There really was no need and no time for any sort of elaborate strategy in terms of the police's attack. To quote Tony Stark, they had a plan...attack. Their job was simply to engage Bane's men. Even if they hadn't actually won the battle, as long as Batman accomplished the primary objective they'd have still won the war.

Foley joins the fight on his own accord, that's why we see him walking towards the front lines when everyone else is already in position. That has been my understanding since the first time I saw the film.

Of course he can't keep check, he has his own task of taking down Bane, but did he assign Foley to that position? and if so how did that meeting with Batman affect Foley? Did Foley demand to lead the army? How did Batman's theatrics have an effect on Foley on a more personal level? I wanted to see at least a single scene like that. You know, to flesh out his arc. Which was my original point before this debate spiraled out into the minutiae of Batman's commandeering skills.

Perhaps they were already on the edge of victory as Talia ran him down. I don't know. We see very little of the fight between the police army and the LOS. Nolan rushes through the whole sequence. And why shouldn't he? It's not like he highlighted the plight of the downtrodden the entire film, it wasn't important to him or the film.

This was the whole point of Batman lighting up the Bat-sign, and Nolan shows Foley and his family gazing up at it as it's lit. He shows that this act inspires Foley to take Gordon's words to heart and be part of the solution.

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"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle

This was the whole point of Batman lighting up the Bat-sign, and Nolan shows Foley and his family gazing up at it as it's lit. He shows that this act inspires Foley to take Gordon's words to heart and be part of the solution.

Yeah, Foley spends much of the film not knowing what the hell is going on. Not privy to the greater danger. Only Gordon, Bats (to a degree) and Blake understand the ramifications. Foley goes for Bats over Bane. Foley doesn't believe Gordon about the lair. Foley doesn't believe Gordon about the bomb.

And then with months of Batman missing, the signal is lit. I can see why it changes his mind.

Foley is a commoner. A simpler character. Simple traits. Simple resolution. He doesn't need any sort of elaboration. He's a little sparkle in the movie. Not everything needs to overachieve. He fulfills his functions in the narrative. (the only thing i dislike about him his the fast zoom edit with him laying on the ground).

Usually characters like him in movies are reduced to zero. Nothing. They are clear narrative operators. They exist solely to guide us through something , and shape any sort of questions the narrative itself creates. Its really cool he ends up having a little juice in him. I think people talking so much about a simpleton , reveals how well he's written for such a small role.

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Lol, luchas influence Bane's look in the comics/cartoon, Bane's look in the film influences luchas. It's the circle of Bane.

Eheh , now nobody cant say the apparatus doesn't resemble a mask from a wrestler

Perhaps they were already on the edge of victory as Talia ran him down. I don't know. We see very little of the fight between the police army and the LOS. Nolan rushes through the whole sequence. And why shouldn't he? It's not like he highlighted the plight of the downtrodden the entire film, it wasn't important to him or the film.

Unfortunately that's very true!

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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

Poor Foley. I kind of feel bad for the guy. Hes the kind of character no one takes seriously. Even his death cant be taken seriously. I still loved the character, even though im clearly in the minority. Heck, i may be the only person who liked Foley. Poor guy.

Yea I wish Bullock would have been here since Begins and had the same role foley had in tdkr. That would have been emotional.

Bullock is a character, that like Gordon, needs to be in an entire trilogy/series and not just one film because Bullock can be a pretty important character as well. Using newly-created characters in TDK/TDKR(even if they're inspired by actual CB characters) is what I'd have done as well if I didn't end up using Bullock from the very beginning.

Modine wasn't that bad in the role. I'll take him over the guy who played Commissioner Loeb. Modine got a little hammy at times, but Loeb was ham-central. They both had comparable amounts of screen time and they both essentially fill the same "smug, complacent cop" role.

When people say that it took away "valuable screen time", I cringe a little. Because I don't feel any character took away time from any particular prominent character on the film. It seems that the main characters didn't get the time they deserve, when in fact they did.

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A hero can be anyone.Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders to let him know that the world hadn't ended.

Not to mention, it's assuming a lot to say that if there was less Foley there'd automatically be more Batman. There's a lot of places that screen time could have went. Perhaps Batman is in the movie exactly the amount that Nolan wanted him to be? I liked the less is more approach myself. It really made Batman feel like this grand, epic figure, more so than the other two films for me.