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Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

I'm sure he will meet dragon in the new world,and in that moment we will know why the fake-robin was kidnapped at sabaody. perhaps she escaped from dragon,although I don't think dragon tried to stop her being a SH,he should know it pretty well,as he said a rogue town.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

Originally Posted by mattiaildivino

I'm sure he will meet dragon in the new world,and in that moment we will know why the fake-robin was kidnapped at sabaody. perhaps she escaped from dragon,although I don't think dragon tried to stop her being a SH,he should know it pretty well,as he said a rogue town.

Wasn't it the marines/cp9-type agencys that captured fake robin, not the Revolutionaries?

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

I do not think anything more than a brief meeting will take place until shortly before Raftel. At the beginning of the arc leading to Raftel Dragon will lend Luffy the power of the Revolutionary Army to aid him in completing his journey and becoming Pirate King. After Raftel I expect the Revolutionaries to join a coalition, led by the Pirate King Luffy, that defeats the World Government.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

They've always shown Dragon as a rather serious character... So i really doubt they'd fall asleep while talking although I wouldn't be surprised if Luffy did! Besides I don't think they would have a casual meeting as Luffy will probably meet him to give him a hand in some war.
He'll probably reach there to get Robin back as she is a member of the RA

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

Originally Posted by Kyodai Senkan Mora

RA types don't wear suits and hats....that was govt. or cipher pol without a doubt

How many Revolutionarys have we seen already? We can't be sure that they don't wear suits and hats. In fact, it doesn't make sense to send some random trash agents after Robin, because even the best Cipher Pol failed already.

What do you think did the Revolutionaries want from Robin? True History? Dragon didn't need to know the truth to start a revolution. No, they want the antique weapons, the only power that is capable of destroying the World Gov.
I think due to that, Robin broke ties with the Revolutionaries somewhere during the timeskip and has been escaping them since then. This could also be the reason why Robin doesn't tell about her time there at all.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

There is a difference between a Robin being rescued by a powerful crew and Robin alone with the believe that the captain is dead/vanished and the crew being disbanded.

Also there is no way in hell that those guys were RA, why would Oda destroy their build up reputation to us by doing so? She joined willingly with the knowledge that she will leave two years in the future and there is no reason to believe that they didn't know of that deal. Especially if she's a nakama to Dragons son. No way that the guys who have seen her potential would send such wannabes to capture her. Think rational please.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

There is a difference between a Robin being rescued by a powerful crew and Robin alone with the believe that the captain is dead/vanished and the crew being disbanded.

True.

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Also there is no way in hell that those guys were RA, why would Oda destroy their build up reputation to us by doing so?

It is really naive thinking that the RA is all good just from what you've seen. We haven't seen much.

I'm not saying that the RA will be an enemy in the future. Just that they aren't a purely good faction. That wouldn't fit in the world Oda designed. Or in other word, quoting Doflamingo:

Pirates are evil? The marines are Righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history. Kids who have never seen peace and Kids who have never seen war have different values.

I think this quote describes the world of One Piece pretty good. It's not a black-and-white-pattern. It's a grey world and the RA shouldn't be an exception to this.

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She joined willingly with the knowledge that she will leave two years in the future and there is no reason to believe that they didn't know of that deal. Especially if she's a nakama to Dragons son.

And she probably joined willingly without knowing that the RA is after the antique weapons. What else could the RA want from her? As I said, there's no need for them to find out true history, as the present is already filled with injustice. The past wouldn't matter here. No, I believe the RA is after the antique weapons. They need them to overthrow the World Government. We've seen the Whitebeard Alliance completely failing against the Marines and Shishibukai at Marinford. Do you think the RA would do any better when they face the entire world?

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No way that the guys who have seen her potential would send such wannabes to capture her. Think rational please.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

While Oda has worked hard to show that nobles can be good to. e.g. Nefertari and Neptune or even Dalton who was named king after Wapol was gone, I see the RA as an extension of the overall theme of OP, freedom and the option to chose your own ruler/government. If the majority of citizens want to exchange monarchy for democrazy, that's their will and they have every right to do so. They obviously have to force their way through the majority of situations, but how else would they accomplish their goals? That's how a revolution works.

It's just your presumption that they want the ancient weapons, how about all the other knowledge she has stored being the last of the Ohara clan? About the hidden past, knowledge of past events with the nobles, the capability to read every kind of Poneglyph.

The way WB and the RA fight is completly different, the revolutionaries have to undermine goverments, have to convince the the people of their ways, liberating those countries is a long-term process taking months/years. The RA has FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more people working for them than WB could ever imagine to have crewmates, remember we talk about whole countries here. And why would they ever be so dumb to attack the marine/wg HQ quarters head on? That would make no sense thinking about their whole need for secrecy.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

Originally Posted by Schabrak

It's just your presumption that they want the ancient weapons, how about all the other knowledge she has stored being the last of the Ohara clan? About the hidden past, knowledge of past events with the nobles, the capability to read every kind of Poneglyph.

I already said, the past does not matter for the RA, as the injustice is in the present.

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The way WB and the RA fight is completly different, the revolutionaries have to undermine goverments, have to convince the the people of their ways, liberating those countries is a long-term process taking months/years. The RA has FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more people working for them than WB could ever imagine to have crewmates, remember we talk about whole countries here.

We don't know how many soldiers the RA has. And the WG's forces aren't just the marines either. Anyways, One Piece always had quality over quantity. Right now, we know 4 important revolutionaries. One is a brain dead cyborg working for the enemy. Dragons powers are unknown, but even if he's close to Whitebeard, that wouldn't be enough. Ivankov and Inazuma are both quite strong, but Dragon would need hundreds of them to defeat the WG.

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And why would they ever be so dumb to attack the marine/wg HQ quarters head on? That would make no sense thinking about their whole need for secery.

What's the point of a revolution if you can't defeat the previous rulers? The Gorosei and Tenryubito have to be judged for their crimes. And this will happen in the final war once One Piece is found that Whitebeard hinted in his death speech

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

It is really naive thinking that the RA is all good just from what you've seen. We haven't seen much.

I'm not saying that the RA will be an enemy in the future. Just that they aren't a purely good faction. That wouldn't fit in the world Oda designed. Or in other word, quoting Doflamingo:

Pirates are evil? The marines are Righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history. Kids who have never seen peace and Kids who have never seen war have different values.

Are you kidding me

The Revolutionary Army are obviously good guys. The leader is Luffy's father who is quite obviously not a Darth Vader like evil dad. At Luffy's greatest time of need the second in command, Ivankov, came to Luffy's aid. After Marineford Ivankov spent two years personally training Sanji. Kuma, a former revolutionary, saved Luffy and crew twice. The first time he ignored Government orders to kill them at Thriller Bark. The second time he rescued them from a Marine Admiral and sent them to islands where they could best train and prepare for the battles to come. He came to the Strawhat's aid even after being turned into a machine, requesting a special mission be programmed in to protect the Sunny until the first Strawhat returned. Now you mean to tell me it isn't absolutely fucking obvious what side the Revolutionaries are on. GTFO with that shit

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I think this quote describes the world of One Piece pretty good. It's not a black-and-white-pattern. It's a grey world and the RA shouldn't be an exception to this.
And she probably joined willingly without knowing that the RA is after the antique weapons. What else could the RA want from her? As I said, there's no need for them to find out true history, as the present is already filled with injustice. The past wouldn't matter here. No, I believe the RA is after the antique weapons. They need them to overthrow the World Government. We've seen the Whitebeard Alliance completely failing against the Marines and Shishibukai at Marinford. Do you think the RA would do any better when they face the entire world?

And neither would the World Government if you think rational.

Again: what in the plot suggests that the Revolutionary Army has any ill intent? It has been made perfectly clear that the leadership are allies of Luffy's, and it is clear that they are sympathetic to the goals of all the good guys. We have seen more than enough to know they will be good guys, not just the action of their leaders, but dialog as well. Is there some reason you believe they will prove to be less than reliable? To me it seems like fan fiction based on assumption, not an actual reading of the story.

There certainly is a considerable amount of nuance in the One Piece world but to claim that everything is painted in shades of grey would be incorrect. We know that the World Government is corrupt, repressive, and violent. We know that the Tenryuubito are wicked and decadent. Oda has been very clear that both are irredeemable evil. Nuance has been reserved for the Marine and Pirates. The Marine is clearly a corrupt institution, to claim otherwise would be to ignore the plot. They are a tool of government suppression, nothing more. The incident at Ohana and War should make that clear. So should the resignation of such good men as Sengoku, Garp, and Aokiji. The truth is that while the institution is corrupt that does not mean all individual Marines are. Many have been shown as men of justice and honor. That does not make the Marine any better as an institution. Similarly Pirates clearly represent individuality, freedom, and self confidence. They are the hero's of One Piece. That does not make all Pirates honorable men of peace, many are quite evil. But there evil does not change the fact that the hero of One Piece, Luffy, is a Pirate. Nor does it change that the greatest hero of the One Piece world, Roger, is a Pirate. Don't expect the same nuance from the Revolutionary Army. As a literary device they serve the same role as the World Government, just as D. is likely to serve the same role as the Tenryuubito.

Originally Posted by McNuss

I already said, the past does not matter for the RA, as the injustice is in the present.

Yes it does, the story makes that more than fucking clear enough. The World Government is willing to kill women, children, and the elderly to suppress the past. Therefore the past matters.

Oda has made it perfectly clear that the Ancient Weapons are not the only reason the World Government fear the Poneglyphs. Professor Clover was shot dead just for threatening to utter the real name of the Ancient Kingdom. Explain that, if the only thing that matters are the ancient weapons?

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We don't know how many soldiers the RA has. And the WG's forces aren't just the marines either. Anyways, One Piece always had quality over quantity. Right now, we know 4 important revolutionaries. One is a brain dead cyborg working for the enemy. Dragons powers are unknown, but even if he's close to Whitebeard, that wouldn't be enough. Ivankov and Inazuma are both quite strong, but Dragon would need hundreds of them to defeat the WG.

What's the point of a revolution if you can't defeat the previous rulers? The Gorosei and Tenryubito have to be judged for their crimes. And this will happen in the final war once One Piece is found that Whitebeard hinted in his death speech

Revolutions don't work that way

Since when have uprisings used set piece combat to defeat seated governments? Attack peripheral provinces, erode the base of support, conduct guerrilla warfare, disrupt trade, win the hearts and minds of the people, maybe start some riots. Even an idiot would know that the Revolutionary Army lacks the resources of the World Government. The World Government has all the worlds resources at their fingers. That is why the revolutionaries have not launched an attack on Mariejois, instead they have been leading revolts in the periphery of the One Piece world. That is how revolutions work. Wiki the Chinese Civil War if you have any questions about this process.

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

Originally Posted by McNuss

I already said, the past does not matter for the RA, as the injustice is in the present.

I don't see how that disqualifies those to be rational explanations for her invite, knowledge about the past. And as fas as ancient weapons are concerned, Robin has absolutly no reason to give them any information about them. I think that was one of the major topics in the Alabasta/W7 arcs, not revealing information about those powerful weapons, easily capable of mass murder. By the way, that's what I mentioned twice this week already, it doesn't matter what the WG has done before, their current ways are still corrupt, but that doesn't stop them from researching past events to have a better understanding of the world, since she is one of the last persons on earth, if not the last, capable of reading unalterable history[Poneglyphs].

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We don't know how many soldiers the RA has. And the WG's forces aren't just the marines either. Anyways, One Piece always had quality over quantity. Right now, we know 4 important revolutionaries. One is a brain dead cyborg working for the enemy. Dragons powers are unknown, but even if he's close to Whitebeard, that wouldn't be enough. Ivankov and Inazuma are both quite strong, but Dragon would need hundreds of them to defeat the WG.

What's the point of a revolution if you can't defeat the previous rulers? The Gorosei and Tenryubito have to be judged for their crimes. And this will happen in the final war once One Piece is found that Whitebeard hinted in his death speech.

We don't know how many, but we know that it's an army that has already toppled numerous governments, which lead to Dragon being the most wanted man on earth, not some top tier pirate. Also it's all citizens taking part, not just soldiers, that's what revolutionaries are.

The reason the Marines won, was because they have for fortified their HQ/military base with an new alloy, have made one of the trusted pirates backstabbing the strongest asset and had the majority of their forces including the Shichibukai on their side, so please read what I have written again. The RA has a different approach on things than Whitebeard had in the Marineford war.

What you have to consider is that the Marines can't act similary against Dragon, who's planing and fighting at probably a dozen fronts at the same time, has an unknown echelon of commanders, which Oda teased for that very reason ... too late, I hate you Kaiten. :P

Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

Originally Posted by McNuss

How many Revolutionarys have we seen already? We can't be sure that they don't wear suits and hats. In fact, it doesn't make sense to send some random trash agents after Robin, because even the best Cipher Pol failed already.

What do you think did the Revolutionaries want from Robin? True History? Dragon didn't need to know the truth to start a revolution. No, they want the antique weapons, the only power that is capable of destroying the World Gov.
I think due to that, Robin broke ties with the Revolutionaries somewhere during the timeskip and has been escaping them since then. This could also be the reason why Robin doesn't tell about her time there at all.

WTF are you talking about? Why are you making things up? What would lead you to believe that she broke ties with the Revolutionaries. Did I miss something? Do you write One Piece, not Oda Link to some hint that she broke ties with them, proof that you did not just make shit up to win an argument.

Also, please explain why you would think the Revolutionaries only want to know about the weapons. We can assume that they want to know something about the ancient kingdom, otherwise why bother talking to Robin? But there is nothing to assume they only want info about the weapons, or to assume she would even tell them what she knew.

She hasn't said any thing because she's Robin? Do you actually read One Piece or just look at the pictures? She doesn't say anything until the absolute last moment.

What are you talking about with random trash? Nobody was sent to capture her. They asked her nicely, no threats were made. She initially said no, they were very nice to her. After Luffy rang the Ox Bell and she knew that they were seperating for two years she changed her mind and sought them out. Te "random trash" (lulz) were not comparable to CP9, they were not trying to take her by force. They were escorts, sent to politely ask for her company. Please reread chapters 593 and chapter 596 before responding.

What you have to consider is that the Marines can't act similary against Dragon, who's planing and fighting at probably a dozen fronts at the same time, has an unknown echelon of commanders, which Oda teased for that very reason ... too late, I hate you Kaiten. :P

That is exactly right. His location is currently unknown to the World Government, and he has been shown to spend a considerable time at sea. Like any good armed revolt there is no center to attack, much of the leadership is either unknown or has not been seen in years. And they are not attacking major Government installations for the very reasons you mentioned: they are to well fortified, to central, and to well defended. And what if they did attack and seize Mariejois? It would be a symbolic blow but would not necessarily shake Government control. It makes more sense to seize local territories. What good is Marineford and Mariejois if they no longer control any actual territory? Correct me if I am wrong but as of their last appearance the Revolutionaries were not yet active in the Grand Line, even if they are based there.