Nothing against the change, but we could've taken advantage of this and also make it secular by taking God out of it too.

Quote:

The national anthem is now officially gender neutral after legislation altering the lyrics received royal assent Wednesday morning, Heritage Minister Mélanie Joly told reporters.

Joly, standing alongside Catherine Bélanger, the wife of the bill's original sponsor Liberal MP Mauril Bélanger who died of ALS in 2016, said the line "in all thy sons command" has now been officially replaced with "in all of us command."

"His long advocacy for the subject has actually changed the course of our history. Now, women across this country will be well-reflected in their own national anthem," Joly said as she looked at Bélanger's widow.

"This is a wonderful day. My granddaughters and I are on cloud nine and I am sure Mauril is smiling," Bélanger said.

Joly said she has instructed officials in her department to change the lyrics on the government's website and alter materials the federal government distributes to schools. Joly said no new money would be made available to promote the change, but existing departmental funds would be repurposed to make the public aware of the new lyrics.

The bill received royal assent this morning, and was signed into law by the Governor General's secretary, Assunta Di Lorenzo, as Gov.-Gen. Julie Payette is in South Korea ahead of the Olympic opening ceremonies.

Joly said Canadian Olympians in Pyeongchang already sang the altered version of the song this morning during a flag-raising ceremony at the athletes' village.

Members of Parliament traditionally sing the national anthem each Wednesday before the start of business, and Joly said she would proudly sing the new lyrics. She said she hopes Conservative MPs will also sing the gender-neutral anthem.

I am a Liberal Party member but I disagree with Justin Trudeau on this issue. A national anthem is a song that honours a country including it's history (yes, I know that women are an equal part of history). We can not let the precedence be set that any Prime Minister can simply change the lyrics to try to take a stand against certain issues.

And let me correct you on the religious aspect. Canada is a country that was founded on Christian principles. It only mentions God. Most religions have at least one God. I have no idea where you were going with that. Why not just write a whole new song if we're gonna butcher our current anthem?

I am a Liberal Party member but I disagree with Justin Trudeau on this issue. A national anthem is a song that honours a country including it's history (yes, I know that women are an equal part of history). We can not let the precedence be set that any Prime Minister can simply change the lyrics to try to take a stand against certain issues.

And let me correct you on the religious aspect. Canada is a country that was founded on Christian principles. It only mentions God. Most religions have at least one God. I have no idea where you were going with that. Why not just write a whole new song if we're gonna butcher our current anthem?

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Going around altering a country's history, symbols, and identity, regardless of cause, should not be done. Especially at the purview of a single individual, and especially over something so minor as some overly sensitive people being offended because your national anthem makes reference to "sons" instead of some gender-neutral term.

This is about as petty and dumb as insisting on "peoplekind" (a word that doesn't even exist) instead of the long accepted "mankind". Oh...

Nevermind that, a more apt comparison would being on the same mental level as opening up your maple syrup glazed borders with open arms to ISIS members, a group that sees pushing gays off roof tops and drowning Christians in giant cages as just another Friday. Yep, it's that dumb.Wait, what? Seriously? Darn-it

Let's try that again! The best comparison would be that this is about as petty and dumb as praising brutal dictatorships like Communist Cuba and China, where speech is heavily regulated, people are throw in prison for opposing party dogma, and there is perpetual poverty among most individuals. No sir-eee, that is so dumb, there is no way that Trudeau has actually said anything to praise dictatorships or dictators, that would be just ridiculous.

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Going around altering a country's history, symbols, and identity, regardless of cause, should not be done. Especially at the purview of a single individual, and especially over something so minor as some overly sensitive people being offended because your national anthem makes reference to "sons" instead of some gender-neutral term.

This is about as petty and dumb as insisting on "peoplekind" (a word that doesn't even exist) instead of the long accepted "mankind". Oh...

Nevermind that, a more apt comparison would being on the same mental level as opening up your maple syrup glazed borders with open arms to ISIS members, a group that sees pushing gays off roof tops and drowning Christians in giant cages as just another Friday. Yep, it's that dumb.Wait, what? Seriously? Darn-it

Let's try that again! The best comparison would be that this is about as petty and dumb as praising brutal dictatorships like Communist Cuba and China, where speech is heavily regulated, people are throw in prison for opposing party dogma, and there is perpetual poverty among most individuals. No sir-eee, that is so dumb, there is no way that Trudeau has actually said anything to praise dictatorships or dictators, that would be just ridiculous.

Despite the fact that you agree with me on the issue in question, as a Canadian, I am offended by your arguments.

Just because our national symbol is something as unique as a maple leaf does not mean that are boarders are "maple syrup guzzled". Syrup is not even on the list of largest Canadian exports.

Let me explain something to you about Castro. He was a revolutionary that overthrew a far worse Cuban dictatorship. Just because his beliefs are different than yours does not make them wrong. I don't believe in Communism either, but Cuba is the best communist state in the world. Best education and healthcare in the world. The Trudeaus and Castros have been friends for several generations. I would much rather be Castro's friend than Putin's. But then again, I guess that's why the USA is doomed.

I think I've made my point. Since you clearly believe in many Canadian stereotypes, I would imagine that you know how willing we are to accept apologies. Unless that's what you plan on doing, out of respect for the poster plz do not respond and let this post be about the anthem issue, not your own person ideologies.

I am a Liberal Party member but I disagree with Justin Trudeau on this issue. A national anthem is a song that honours a country including it's history (yes, I know that women are an equal part of history).

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlasmaHam

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Going around altering a country's history, symbols, and identity, regardless of cause, should not be done. Especially at the purview of a single individual, and especially over something so minor as some overly sensitive people being offended because your national anthem makes reference to "sons" instead of some gender-neutral term.

In the original translation of the song by Robert Stanley Weir, the lyrics was ''thou dost in us command'', it was later changed to ''in all thy sons command'', so why is it so bad when the change just basically going back to what the original version was?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewLeafsFan

We can not let the precedence be set that any Prime Minister can simply change the lyrics to try to take a stand against certain issues.

That's what happens when the results of an election is not representative of what the people voted for, but hey that's what your party wants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewLeafsFan

And let me correct you on the religious aspect. Canada is a country that was founded on Christian principles. It only mentions God. Most religions have at least one God. I have no idea where you were going with that. Why not just write a whole new song if we're gonna butcher our current anthem?

In the original translation there was no mention of God or religion even though the French version mentions God like 40 times. Yes the country was founded on Christian principles, but we are now an inclusive country with large portions of the population originating from all over the world and practicing all kind of religions and a rapidly growing number of people being Agnostic and Atheist, it only makes sense our national anthem reflects that by being secular, and while were at it we could take God out of the constitution too. Sure all religions have Gods, but when you say God, everyone knows which one it is. If it was Allah instead of God we wouldn't say its just the Islamic translation for the word God, we would say its the Muslim God we should probably change that. Finally the line is ''God keep our land glorious and free'' that doesn't really make sense considering how repressive and restrictive the Christian religion is.

So the Serbian anthem "God of Justice" should be altered too? The song which marked Serbia's official independence, the words that were on the lips of fathers and sons as they marched into battle and returned from war, the song which was played whenever we would win a medal at a sports event, or when we would represent our country abroad... Should we get rid of it just because it mentions God and doesn't have gender neutrality? Should we get rid of the anthem that followed our people in good and bad just because it lacks gender neutrality and is not secular? I am not a believer, but that anthem stirs a fire in me, even though God is in the name.

Male/Serb nationalist/CentristAuthoritarian /Straight/Heliphobe

VT's most likely to become president of 2017

VT's leading expert on Slavology and anything Slavic-related, if you have some questions of Slavic nature, just send me a VM or a PM

So the Serbian anthem "God of Justice" should be altered too? The song which marked Serbia's official independence, the words that were on the lips of fathers and sons as they marched into battle and returned from war, the song which was played whenever we would win a medal at a sports event, or when we would represent our country abroad... Should we get rid of it just because it mentions God and doesn't have gender neutrality? Should we get rid of the anthem that followed our people in good and bad just because it lacks gender neutrality and is not secular? I am not a believer, but that anthem stirs a fire in me, even though God is in the name.

If does are important values of your country, it would probably be a good idea to make the change. Now, if its just a minor change like in this case were you change one word or if a line if we were to take God out of it, you can keep the same song and continue with the new version. If its more like the UK national anthem ''God Save the Queen'' where God is mention every other word probably better to pick a new song.

In the original translation of the song by Robert Stanley Weir, the lyrics was ''thou dost in us command'', it was later changed to ''in all thy sons command'', so why is it so bad when the change just basically going back to what the original version was?

In the original translation there was no mention of God or religion even though the French version mentions God like 40 times. Yes the country was founded on Christian principles, but we are now an inclusive country with large portions of the population originating from all over the world and practicing all kind of religions and a rapidly growing number of people being Agnostic and Atheist, it only makes sense our national anthem reflects that by being secular, and while were at it we could take God out of the constitution too. Sure all religions have Gods, but when you say God, everyone knows which one it is. If it was Allah instead of God we wouldn't say its just the Islamic translation for the word God, we would say its the Muslim God we should probably change that. Finally the line is ''God keep our land glorious and free'' that doesn't really make sense considering how repressive and restrictive the Christian religion is.

The original lyrics that you have mentioned are not what the lyrics have been changed back. I'm sure that the original writer did not do that intentionally to be gender equal.

As far as God being mentioned more frequently in the French version, it is not mentioned 40 times. It is mentioned because the French language is more strongly connected to religion. If you've ever heard a French person swear, you know what I'm getting at.

Despite the fact that you agree with me on the issue in question, as a Canadian, I am offended by your arguments.

Just because our national symbol is something as unique as a maple leaf does not mean that are boarders are "maple syrup guzzled". Syrup is not even on the list of largest Canadian exports.

Let me explain something to you about Castro. He was a revolutionary that overthrew a far worse Cuban dictatorship. Just because his beliefs are different than yours does not make them wrong. I don't believe in Communism either, but Cuba is the best communist state in the world. Best education and healthcare in the world. The Trudeaus and Castros have been friends for several generations. I would much rather be Castro's friend than Putin's. But then again, I guess that's why the USA is doomed.

I think I've made my point. Since you clearly believe in many Canadian stereotypes, I would imagine that you know how willing we are to accept apologies. Unless that's what you plan on doing, out of respect for the poster plz do not respond and let this post be about the anthem issue, not your own person ideologies.

If does are important values of your country, it would probably be a good idea to make the change. Now, if its just a minor change like in this case were you change one word or if a line if we were to take God out of it, you can keep the same song and continue with the new version. If its more like the UK national anthem ''God Save the Queen'' where God is mention every other word probably better to pick a new song.

God is mentioned in the beggining and at the beggining of every refrain. But why change it? I do not understand. It's a song which was used for so long and the tradition behind it is strong, like I mentioned in my previous post.

I mean I would get it if it had some racist or jingoistic overtone, like the initial German anthem had, but it's a song calling for God to justly protect the Serbs and to bless their brotherhood and strives for bettering ourselves.

Male/Serb nationalist/CentristAuthoritarian /Straight/Heliphobe

VT's most likely to become president of 2017

VT's leading expert on Slavology and anything Slavic-related, if you have some questions of Slavic nature, just send me a VM or a PM

In terms of that actual change, I don't really think it HUGELY matters. Sure, everyone will have to learn to say the new lyrics but 99% of the anthem appears exactly the same so I doubt even the most hardline Conservatives will realise too much of a difference.

The original lyrics that you have mentioned are not what the lyrics have been changed back. I'm sure that the original writer did not do that intentionally to be gender equal.

It is closer to the original translation than what we use to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewLeafsFan

As far as God being mentioned more frequently in the French version, it is not mentioned 40 times. It is mentioned because the French language is more strongly connected to religion. If you've ever heard a French person swear, you know what I'm getting at.

You know I'm French right?

40 times was an exaggeration, the original version which is in French, sounds a lot more like a prayer than a song. It was suppose to be a replacement because French people didn't want to sing God Save the Queen, that and the fact the Catholic church was pretty much controlling everything back then is the reason the French version is so religious, and even after all the changes that were made it is still a lot more religious than the English version. If were to take God out of the national anthem, and we should, the French version would be a lot more different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShineintheDark

This is getting off the main topic of the gender-neutral change.

If its mentioned in the OP its on topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShineintheDark

In terms of that actual change, I don't really think it HUGELY matters. Sure, everyone will have to learn to say the new lyrics but 99% of the anthem appears exactly the same so I doubt even the most hardline Conservatives will realise too much of a difference.

Its literally one word. One small three letter word being change to a two letter word. There is more outrage on the Conservative side on how it was done than the change it self.

40 times was an exaggeration, the original version which is in French, sounds a lot more like a prayer than a song. It was suppose to be a replacement because French people didn't want to sing God Save the Queen, that and the fact the Catholic church was pretty much controlling everything back then is the reason the French version is so religious, and even after all the changes that were made it is still a lot more religious than the English version. If were to take God out of the national anthem, and we should, the French version would be a lot more different.

You know that I am also French, right?

So it is more of a religious connection than a French one, either way it is there. French Canadians are often Catholic, so there is a religious connection to their culture. Either way, I still don't see the problem.

So it is more of a religious connection than a French one, either way it is there. French Canadians are often Catholic, so there is a religious connection to their culture. Either way, I still don't see the problem.

If as a country we value equality and multiculturalism there is no reason why our national anthem shouldn't reflect that by being secular, plus there is that the government is not suppose to favour one religion over another.

If as a country we value equality and multiculturalism there is no reason why our national anthem shouldn't reflect that by being secular, plus there is that the government is not suppose to favour one religion over another.

You are literally running this debate around in circles. As I have already mentioned, a country's national anthem is based largely on the countries history. Historically, French Canadians are known to be Catholic so it mentions God in the anthem. Now you are arguing that we need to change our anthem to value multiculturalism and equality? That is a more recent issue. Are you suggesting that we change the anthem every 10 yrs or so so that it matches our country's current values?

I had never heard of a feminist, atheist, or anyone else that was offended by the national anthem until it was a political issue. And I'm sure that the same is true for you.

@mattsmith48, are you really saying that you are so offended by the terms "God" and "sons" that you want to rewrite a 100+ year old anthem of one of the most notable democracies in the world? Do you realize how petty that sounds? You are now in the midst of a debate with someone where your argument basically consists of, "Any mention of God should be removed from the public... because I and a few vocal others find it offensive, and because of "Multicularism(TM)" and "Inclusivity(TM)", and just because its (insert current year)."

This is the most non-issue ever. I doubt you ever even cared about the anthem until it become politicized and thus an easy way to gain diversity(TM) points. Honestly, this whole debacle is just showing the world how petty 'Social Justice(TM)' has become that they want to rewrite historical documents just so the world will fit their twisted view.

You are literally running this debate around in circles. As I have already mentioned, a country's national anthem is based largely on the countries history. Historically, French Canadians are known to be Catholic so it mentions God in the anthem. Now you are arguing that we need to change our anthem to value multiculturalism and equality? That is a more recent issue. Are you suggesting that we change the anthem every 10 yrs or so so that it matches our country's current values?

I had never heard of a feminist, atheist, or anyone else that was offended by the national anthem until it was a political issue. And I'm sure that the same is true for you.

This is not about being offended, this about making a small change to reflect what we have become, an inclusive, multicultural society, and move away from what we were, a country run by an oppressive religion responsible for the death and suffering of millions of indigenous people.

Since I was old enough to understand it, I always found it weird that God would be mention in the national anthem, it as nothing to do with the thing becoming a political issue.

@PlasmaHam Like I said at the beginning the song as been changed multiple times and the current versions is not even close to the originals.