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I don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

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Adventure Zones is ESO's form of raiding. I am more of a PVE player but i totally disagree that PVP cant be endgame. Some people dont like FPS type games at all so i am not sure why you compared BF to a MMO. 2 completely different things. And i throw away more money than 15 bucks a month so i could care less about a lowsy 15 bucks a month.

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Originally posted by DesetesI don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

Few things.

1) Not all PvPers enjoy the same games.

2) MMO is a form of PvP that has already proven successful (when done right). Ultima, Lineage, DAoC, Guild Wars, GW2, Eve; to name a few.

3) Raiding, in the traditional sense, has never been a part of Elder Scrolls. However, while they didn't have PvP (being single-player games), it does fit within the vibe of elder scrolls. Not unlike the faction-based conflict seen in Skyrim.

4) The game will have upto 24-man dungeons. Whether or not you consider that 'raiding', though, is upto you.

I've said this multiple times, but I'll say it again. This game plays like an Elder Scrolls game, that is an MMO. If you're looking for an Elder Scrolls version of an MMO, this game is doing that about as best as it possibly can (from what I've seen so far). if you're looking for something else, then you probably won't like it. However, there's probably no reason to be on these threads if that's the case, since this game is primarily for elder scroll fans.

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I'm glad their is no raiding to be honest.

The quicker we get away from running the same raids over and over until your eyes bleed, the quicker devs can come up with something that can evolve MMO's into something that people actually enjoy playing.

I think Timeless isle like in WoW with an ever changing approach to loot is the most fun you can have. There is very high motivation to keep logging if you have a chance each day of finding a uber rare item that makes you the envy of everybody.

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There isn't a gear chase type of raiding in ESO. But there will be large group content. The adventure zones will be for 2 to 12 from the latest info. An open zone with different areas that have mobs for different groups to go after for Veteran points. The same Veteran points that can be earned from Master dungeons, PvP and the solo/small group 50+ and 50++ content.

All play styles will be able to earn end game gear by playing the way they want and earning Veteran points needed to buy end game gear. Crafting is said to be able take any gear and alter it to change the stats based on your crafting level.

I am actually looking forward to a game that let's everyone earn gear, not just the raid or die group. Hopefully the Adventure zones will be updated to be a large number of large group content for those that don't want to PvP. But PvP will be a big end game activity for both the economy with guild keeps selling crafted items and meaningful PvP with rewards and being emperor.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?” R.A.Salvatore

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Originally posted by DesetesI don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry,

None of those games offer persistent massive scale territory control combat.

PvP is absolutely end game. Far more cost effective and interesting end game, generally, if designed well.

EQ/WoW style DKP raiding needs to die a painful death so we can get back to good non instanced non tierred raiding.

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Originally posted by DesetesI don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

Then MMOs should not make the journey so long, as in make development cost and time for something thats not as enjoyable for the target market, and focus more on end game such as raids, and pvp.

The fact that they do not do that, is becuase the raid group is not as large of a demographic... or... just bad development.

Personally, when combat becomes repeititve, and story can't be that much greater... I would rather raid than do class quests... however, repeating raids to me is like repeating class quests... I do not enjoy that... maybe repeating a raid 3 times tops... so if a game were more raid focused just like other games in sand box ones are more pvp... then I think it would do well. Of course it still needs other things to compliment such a game.

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

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See I think instanced scripted progression raiding has been the single biggest design plague on the mmo genre period. I believe it's over credited for the success of some games, including WoW. It adversely affects what could otherwise be good pve progression, good pvp progression, and indepth crafting.

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Originally posted by flguy147Adventure Zones is ESO's form of raiding. I am more of a PVE player but i totally disagree that PVP cant be endgame. Some people dont like FPS type games at all so i am not sure why you compared BF to a MMO. 2 completely different things. And i throw away more money than 15 bucks a month so i could care less about a lowsy 15 bucks a month.

Adventure zones are progressive in 3 layers... and they combine raids with stories.. they are not inside only but mostly outside... and there are 3 times 150 of them... 150 for every faction,,

This will work well in combination with the dungeons and their gear system, gear will have random stats, and every tier of progression will have better stats... even better, you could allways find a better item

People are so underinformed about this game, its just not funny anymore, they base their opinion up on false assumptions and worse..

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Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by flguy147Adventure Zones is ESO's form of raiding. I am more of a PVE player but i totally disagree that PVP cant be endgame. Some people dont like FPS type games at all so i am not sure why you compared BF to a MMO. 2 completely different things. And i throw away more money than 15 bucks a month so i could care less about a lowsy 15 bucks a month.

Adventure zones are progressive in 3 layers... and they combine raids with stories.. they are not inside only but mostly outside... and there are 3 times 150 of them... 150 for every faction,,

This will work well in combination with the dungeons and their gear system, gear will have random stats, and every tier of progression will have better stats... even better, you could allways find a better item

People are so underinformed about this game, its just not funny anymore, they base their opinion up on false assumptions and worse..

I've been saying the same for weeks, unerinformed experts posting misinformation,

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

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Originally posted by TorvaldrSee I think instanced scripted progression raiding has been the single biggest design plague on the mmo genre period. I believe it's over credited for the success of some games, including WoW. It adversely affects what could otherwise be good pve progression, good pvp progression, and indepth crafting.

This

More open world group content please. I don't mind instancing if it fools me into thinking I'm not in one. :)

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Many people seems whine and even like to whine. Its up to you personally to make a game experience funny. You can even play MONOPOLY many times and its still fun when you play, If you are having fun with does you play with. :)

Pvp endgame i dont care that much about pvp. But if people are having fun, then have fun with. :)

Im going to play with many real life friends, explore the game and all the content it brings up. And maybe we going to join a raid guild going to explore the "raids areas and have fun with that".

Help Yourself to get a good solid fun and laughs playing. then you might even get invited to join a guild or be on others friendlist ;)

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Originally posted by DesetesI don't see this game lasting more than a few months, much like every other MMO that comes out these days. PVP isn't end-game content, if people wanted to PVP they'd play BF4, LoL, Chivalry, etc. No one is going to pay $15 a month to PVP when so many free games exist. The reason why WoW has lasted is because of the hardcore raiding endgame.

I really would love to know how some people make such statements and where they get their info.

PvP is a LOT more end game content (to me) than raiding. I would gladly pay my sub fee to pvp.

as far as "when so many free games exist" are you saying that the content and subject matter have no bearing on a person's decision to play a game and the primary deciding factor is a paltry bit of money?

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Originally posted by MoodsorPvp can't be endgame? what a silly thing to say, it seems to work fine in several mmo's.

Some folks cut their teeth on the wrong sort of MMORPG's, and they just don't appreciate what these titles can or should be. Sort of stunted their development.

In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways."I don't have one life, I have many lives" - GruntyStill currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by flguy147Adventure Zones is ESO's form of raiding. I am more of a PVE player but i totally disagree that PVP cant be endgame. Some people dont like FPS type games at all so i am not sure why you compared BF to a MMO. 2 completely different things. And i throw away more money than 15 bucks a month so i could care less about a lowsy 15 bucks a month.

Adventure zones are progressive in 3 layers... and they combine raids with stories.. they are not inside only but mostly outside... and there are 3 times 150 of them... 150 for every faction,,

This will work well in combination with the dungeons and their gear system, gear will have random stats, and every tier of progression will have better stats... even better, you could allways find a better item

People are so underinformed about this game, its just not funny anymore, they base their opinion up on false assumptions and worse..

Where is this info coming from on Adventure zones? Only info I have seen so far said that there will be 1 adventure zone at launch with more to follow. I don't see anywhere that is says there will be 450 zones. I know that each factions questing time is estimated to be 150. So they have said that at level 50 you can play another faction for 150, then a 3rd for 150 hours. That is 3 x 150hrs for questing. But that is the 50+ and 50++ content, not the Adventure zones.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?” R.A.Salvatore

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Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by flguy147Adventure Zones is ESO's form of raiding. I am more of a PVE player but i totally disagree that PVP cant be endgame. Some people dont like FPS type games at all so i am not sure why you compared BF to a MMO. 2 completely different things. And i throw away more money than 15 bucks a month so i could care less about a lowsy 15 bucks a month.

Adventure zones are progressive in 3 layers... and they combine raids with stories.. they are not inside only but mostly outside... and there are 3 times 150 of them... 150 for every faction,,

This will work well in combination with the dungeons and their gear system, gear will have random stats, and every tier of progression will have better stats... even better, you could allways find a better item

People are so underinformed about this game, its just not funny anymore, they base their opinion up on false assumptions and worse..

Where is this info coming from on Adventure zones? Only info I have seen so far said that there will be 1 adventure zone at launch with more to follow. I don't see anywhere that is says there will be 450 zones. I know that each factions questing time is estimated to be 150. So they have said that at level 50 you can play another faction for 150, then a 3rd for 150 hours. That is 3 x 150hrs for questing. But that is the 50+ and 50++ content, not the Adventure zones.

It came from a developer interview, they clearly stated it was adventure zones... And added those numbers, explaining how it would be part of the endgame... Really dont know which website it was tough..