your entire beef is with God, bible and Christians but don't want quotes?-sorry but typing/writing is one of my personal least favorite activities,
love reading interesting subjects though and could draw/paint a Last Eve(Mona Lisa is taken-lol, and prefer colored pencil/water but hope to take up
oil during retirement)-

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books
that would be written.-John21.25

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you
refuse to come to me to have life.-John5.38

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"-John8.58

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.-1Cor15.45

I heard an audible voice one night as if sitting to my left as soon as I began to open the cover of a small green Gideon NT that a woman had left on
the bar a few days earlier, say-"my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish"-I stood to my feet turned towards
the voice and said yes Lord, did'nt know the scriptures and was'nt raised churched either

I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.-John5.25

For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.-2Cor5.14

" 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?-Jer8.8

For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.-Gal3.21

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.-John3.16

John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He
will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.-Luke3.16

"Is not my word like fire"-Jer23.28

He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him-John7.18

The first thing that gets me about the biblical god is the fact that for one god seems so HUMAN???

.............He created man in his own image, but he's obviously a spirit being so that brings up the question was he once human? Who knows? Only him
and those who've seen him. We as human beings are supposed to be resurrected into a spirit being, if we're lucky, so maybe he was a human also at
one point. So then how'd he get to be God??

Why would god be jealous?? that's such a primitive emotion.
..........Apparently he doesn't permit the worshipping of false gods. Can't blame him, after all it's his gig.

why would a supreme being have its creation jumping through hoops like a bunch of circus clowns????
...........It's our job to find the Truth about him. Belief is why we're here.

and why is more than half the world NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS???
..........Nobody cares. Most people put more thought into buying a car than what they believe. There's no clue and no desire to get one. The devil
likes our complacency. It keeps him in business running false religions to brain wash those who think they believe, while the false religions convince
the rest of us that God doesn't exist at all. It's a win win situation for the devil. What devil? He doesn't exist.....................

are they that satisfied with the answers they get?
.............Yeah they are, although almost none of them actually believe what they believe. And again that works out quite well for Satan. And
considering we believe what we see,he has a nice little plan lined up that should take religion out once and for all. Stay tuned.

or are they too proud to admit they got sucked in and scammed?
.............Again, they have no clue, and they don't want one.

why would god who is supposed to be all knowing put adam and eve to a test and be surprised with the outcome??
.............Do you really think an all knowing God didn't plant the tree of good and evil for a reason?

how in the hell can anything surprise god??? doesn't that defeat the purpose of being all knowing??
...........He isn't surprised. All things work together for good in the end. God even creates bad people to suit his needs. In
the end every thing comes out exactly as he planed it to. You'll see.............................

oh and please dont copy and paste bible verses to me.
........Ok,,,,,,,,,, Nice to see you use your mind to think. Most people don't.

The God of the OT (Jehovah/Yahweh) is a cultural, tribal God. He was the God of the Israelites---"their" God---hence, all those OT scriptures about
(paraphrased) "I shall be their God, and they shall be my people." The Israelites were in bondage, enslaved, and repressed for eons by countless
empires; the Babylonians, the Egyptians, and the Romans (just to mention a few). From this standpoint, it seems only natural that "their God" would
be a deliverer, one who would rescue them and lead them to the "promised land"...their God would make them His chosen people. Such a belief would
give them some semblance of hope in the midst of despair, persecution, and slavery. Their God would provide a messiah, a new King of Israel, and
would ultimately free them from bondage; karmic retribution, if you will.

Along the way, in order to achieve this deliverance, "their" God would allow them to do whatever was necessary to attain this promise of
deliverance. This has been discussed ad infinitum here, the atrocities allowed or commanded by Jehovah, the God of the Israelites. After all, He is
"their God", and they are "His people." Also, their God demanded allegiance and (especially) blood sacrifice...ideas picked up and absorbed from
the pagan concepts and religions of their various dominators.

Now, along comes Yeshua/Jesus, a Jew, one of "their" own, descended from the lineage of the great King David. Yet, Yeshua speaks of a "different"
God; a broader, all-encompassing God. He is not just the God of the Hebrews, He is everyone's God! This had to be quite shocking, and perhaps quite
unsettling for some, especially the religious leaders. In that sense, the God of Jesus is NOT the God of the OT. Jesus refers to God as "The
Father" (Abba)---a loving, forgiving parental figure. This is a totally new concept to the Jewish people! "Their" God is also the God of the
Gentiles, the Samaritans, the Romans, etc.

The "Father" God of Jesus is not just the God of the Jews, He is the God of the whole human race. The only time Jesus referred to the OT concept of
God was when quoting the OT scriptures; otherwise, He spoke of "The Father." The various parables of Jesus are full of this Universal God. Is it
any wonder that both the religious leaders (Pharisees, Sadducees, Sanhedrin, etc.) and the disenchanted zealots were threatened by this new message?
It was readily apparent to the hardcore types that Jesus had no interest in being an earthly King of Israel, so how could he be the messiah? He was
telling them to love their enemies, the non-Israelites! How could the Temple leaders keep the people in line, when this new guy was threatening the
very foundation of their authority? Thus, Jesus had to die. He Himself knew it was coming, based on OT prophecy. He would be the "sacrificial
lamb."

I have often thought that it is highly ironic that "orthodox" Christianity views Jesus as the Messiah based on the beliefs and theology of the
Israelites and the OT, when the Jewish people (as a whole) rejected Jesus for essentially the same reasons. Constantine (and thus, the original
Catholic Church) rejected the philosophy and teachings of Peter, and chose the theology of Paul. (That battle is evident in the NT, and that doesn't
even include the Gnostics.) Yet, they chose to pattern the structure and hierarchy of the Church after the Jewish system: a ritualistic system, led
by an authoritative class of priests, bishops, cardinals, etc. (Think scribes, priests, high priests of the Jewish system, right down to the clothing
and vestments.)

I have heard "orthodox" Christians (church-goers) try to explain this seeming-contradiction between the wrathful, vengeful God of the OT and the God
of Jesus by saying God somehow "changed"...this strikes me as ludicrous, and certainly not backed up by the Bible itself.

The Bible itself says that God is unchanging, always the same. I am a Christian with an interest in the mystical and metaphysical qualities of
spirituality ("The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."). I like to say that the God of Jesus is the God of Metaphysics: The Creator, The First
Cause, First Substance, Ultimate Mind of The Universe, etc.

In that sense, the concept of God as the loving Father that Jesus spoke of represents a quantum leap in the spiritual development of humanity, at
least in the western world (don't mean to lessen the impact of Krishna and Buddha in the eastern world). He is not a tribal God, and that (to me) is
the difference in the OT God and the true "Christian" God, the God of all humanity. Makes sense to me, anyway...

P.S. Notice I didn't rely strictly on scripture-quoting (though many are applicable)!

God wasn't surprised by Adam and Eve disobeying him. God gave them freewill to choose his way or not, it was their choice. If you believe the Bible,
as I would hope all Christians do, you will recall that from the creation in 6 days, God knew his plan. This is further explained in the final book
Revelation. 6 days represent the 6 thousand years of rule that Satan has been allowed, with Gods sabbath, the 7th day, representing the 1 thousand
year rule of Jesus on his return. It is clear from this that the whole plan was known from creation week.

Without freewill, you can't experiance true love, you would just be a puppet. If you consider every breath you have taken and will take to be a gift
from God, that everything you value is a result of him, it is easy to love and praise him.

Unfortunately the gullible people 'scientifically' explain this by claiming that nothing exploded into everything, which somehow came to life, and
continually became more complex all by itself based on physical laws which also arose by mystical means.

Also the lack of belief in the end times is also foretold in the 2000 year old book.

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books
that would be written.

Were you there? did you see these other things ?

Give it up mate, no you were not there and there is not written accounts of anyone that was, not a scribble not an artifact not even a mention by
ntable historians of the time about the Godman raising the dead and walking on water.

If thousands of poor jews could be fed with a handful of fish and bread, water turned into wine and the dead climbing out of their graves and walking
into town don't you think the Romans would have noticed for goodness sake ?

Main Entry: fic·tion
Pronunciation: \ˈfik-shən\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English ficcioun, from Middle French fiction, from Latin fiction-, fictio act of
fashioning, fiction, from fingere to shape, fashion, feign — more at dough Date: 14th century

1 a : something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically : an invented story b : fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c : a
work of fiction; especially : novel

2 a : an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth b : a useful illusion or pretense

I heard an audible voice one night as if sitting to my left as soon as I began to open the cover of a small green Gideon NT that a woman had left on
the bar a few days earlier, say-"my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish"-I stood to my feet turned towards
the voice and said yes Lord, did'nt know the scriptures and was'nt raised churched either

As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul,
Saul, why do you persecute me?"
"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus-Acts 9

Originally posted by The Stache
Hey gang, here is my take on the whole Old Testament God vs. "Christian" God discussion; strictly my understanding, my opinion.

Along the way, in order to achieve this deliverance, "their" God would allow them to do whatever was necessary to attain this promise of
deliverance. This has been discussed ad infinitum here, the atrocities allowed or commanded by Jehovah, the God of the Israelites. After all, He is
"their God", and they are "His people." Also, their God demanded allegiance and (especially) blood sacrifice...ideas picked up and absorbed from
the pagan concepts and religions of their various dominators.

No where in the Bible does God EVER say he'll alow the Israelites to do "what-ever" to "attain promise of deliverance" where are U getting this
from?

The "Father" God of Jesus is not just the God of the Jews, He is the God of the whole human race. The only time Jesus referred to the OT concept of
God was when quoting the OT scriptures; otherwise, He spoke of "The Father." The various parables of Jesus are full of this Universal God. Is it
any wonder that both the religious leaders (Pharisees, Sadducees, Sanhedrin, etc.) and the disenchanted zealots were threatened by this new message?
It was readily apparent to the hardcore types that Jesus had no interest in being an earthly King of Israel, so how could he be the messiah? He was
telling them to love their enemies, the non-Israelites! How could the Temple leaders keep the people in line, when this new guy was threatening the
very foundation of their authority? Thus, Jesus had to die. He Himself knew it was coming, based on OT prophecy. He would be the "sacrificial
lamb."

Pharisees, Sadducees started thier own tradition not countined Jewish tradition.

I have often thought that it is highly ironic that "orthodox" Christianity views Jesus as the Messiah based on the beliefs and theology of the
Israelites and the OT, when the Jewish people (as a whole) rejected Jesus for essentially the same reasons. Constantine (and thus, the original
Catholic Church) rejected the philosophy and teachings of Peter, and chose the theology of Paul. (That battle is evident in the NT, and that doesn't
even include the Gnostics.) Yet, they chose to pattern the structure and hierarchy of the Church after the Jewish system: a ritualistic system, led
by an authoritative class of priests, bishops, cardinals, etc. (Think scribes, priests, high priests of the Jewish system, right down to the clothing
and vestments.)

Where in the Bible and Christian History did Peter/Paul "contradict" each other?

I suggest you check out hidden_hand's (window of opourtunity) thread very interesting IF you have a OPEN mind.

a part of the thread, read all of it for more info really opens your mind, well written aswell.
Yahweh thought that his ‘Children’ would still choose to obey him, and when he discovered they did not, he became angry. As he himself describes
in his scriptures, he is a “Jealous God”, and he did not like it that his ‘children’ had chose to disobey him, and follow our advice. this was
about the tree thing its mentioned in the thread aswell if you want the full thread with the actual flow of questions and answers you can get it from
here

how can god be jealous of man worshiping another god when there is only one god. how does that work? are there other gods?

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1 Corinthians 7:36

I answered your question.

Will you please answer mine?

Would it be wrong for the man (in my earlier post) to be jealous?

first of all how can there be other gods? there is only one god. i dont know what you define as god but as far as im concerned there is only one
original creator. none of these lesser gods?

and to answer your question it would depend on the ego of the man and his perspective. he might view the wife's infidelity as a sign that they were
never meant to be, and as such wouldnt be jealous and might even thank the other guy. a limited mind can only see a limited view. so i dont know the
answer to the question as i dont know the specifics of the person in question. i need more information on the man and his psyche to make an accurate
assumption.

let me get one thing straight i have NO BEEF WITH GOD. what i do have beef with is YOUR CONCEPT OF IT. im very grateful for everyday in this reality
and the gift of life.

secondly please dont waste your time with bible quotes. not only do they mean nothing but gibberish designed to confuse and obfuscate the point they
have no relevance to the points i have raised. just stop and think about it for a second. if i believe the bible and the stories in there are not
factual accounts and are metaphors and paraphrased stories with no historic backup how can you use the very text to prove the validity of the
text?????? that makes no sense at all.

if i believe the bible stories are flawed then everything in the bible loses its divine power. its all or nothing dont you get that?? it cant be half
right. it has to have no flaws from start to end. that is the nature of truth and fact. ITS NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION.

The first thing that gets me about the biblical god is the fact that for one god seems so HUMAN???

.............He created man in his own image, but he's obviously a spirit being so that brings up the question was he once human? Who knows? Only him
and those who've seen him. We as human beings are supposed to be resurrected into a spirit being, if we're lucky, so maybe he was a human also at
one point. So then how'd he get to be God??

Why would god be jealous?? that's such a primitive emotion.
..........Apparently he doesn't permit the worshipping of false gods. Can't blame him, after all it's his gig.

again my point is if god is all how can humans worship other gods???there cant be other gods. unless god is schizophrenic??

why would a supreme being have its creation jumping through hoops like a bunch of circus clowns????
...........It's our job to find the Truth about him. Belief is why we're here.

and why is more than half the world NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS???
..........Nobody cares. Most people put more thought into buying a car than what they believe. There's no clue and no desire to get one. The devil
likes our complacency. It keeps him in business running false religions to brain wash those who think they believe, while the false religions convince
the rest of us that God doesn't exist at all. It's a win win situation for the devil. What devil? He doesn't exist.....................

are they that satisfied with the answers they get?
.............Yeah they are, although almost none of them actually believe what they believe. And again that works out quite well for Satan. And
considering we believe what we see,he has a nice little plan lined up that should take religion out once and for all. Stay tuned.

or are they too proud to admit they got sucked in and scammed?
.............Again, they have no clue, and they don't want one.

why would god who is supposed to be all knowing put adam and eve to a test and be surprised with the outcome??
.............Do you really think an all knowing God didn't plant the tree of good and evil for a reason?

how in the hell can anything surprise god??? doesn't that defeat the purpose of being all knowing??
...........He isn't surprised. All things work together for good in the end. God even creates bad people to suit his needs. In
the end every thing comes out exactly as he planed it to. You'll see.............................

if everything always works out for the good how can anybody do wrong?

oh and please dont copy and paste bible verses to me.
........Ok,,,,,,,,,, Nice to see you use your mind to think. Most people don't.]

you seem to have missed like my testimony before I read anything, but was synanomous with beginning to open the cover of a NT, then of course there
was the qoute where Jesus says the scribes tampered with it, but cleary says no matter they all sum up to being a witness about Him-whose voice I
heard before knowing any of those or that, but I also realize He was right in front of their very eyes and they said well come done off the cross then
we will believe...so

you seem to have missed like my testimony before I read anything, but was synanomous with beginning to open the cover of a NT, then of course there
was the qoute where Jesus says the scribes tampered with it, but cleary says no matter they all sum up to being a witness about Him-whose voice I
heard before knowing any of those or that, but I also realize He was right in front of their very eyes and they said well come done off the cross then
we will believe...so

what are you talking about? your not making any sense. its like your having a conversation with yourself. what statements are you replying to and what
points are you trying to make?

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