It is not common on OT to reference or quote any independent information sources
Given the wealth of "real world" data available from the publications listed
(as well as others) I find that curious. The list in the poll are what I read and
I'm interested in sources other members use as well.
Although I put it in the "rifle scopes" thread. please consider it to cover all optics,
guns, ammo, reloading, hunts etc. Thanks for your participation.

I read almost all the above regularly, but I don't base firm conclusions about any product from any of them. All my conclusions about what works for me is based on actual field experience and experimentation. The publications are interesting and entertaining to read, but they should be taken in the context that they have sponsors (advertisers) to be concerned with, which pay their bills. I think it is unwise for anyone to make buying decisions based solely on what some writer had to say in a magazine.

Why should it be a prerequisite for someone to quote a magazine for giving an opinion? If I own a product or have used it extensively, doesn't that qualify me to state my opinion about it?

Edited by RifleDude

Ted

Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.

I had no intention of requiring published information as a prerequisite to offer an opinion.
FYI Gun Tests takes no advertising and they can be harsh.
I think that to infer that advertising shapes the opinions of folks like Boddington, Skelton, Eastman etc. is questionable.

"I think that to infer that advertising shapes the opinions of folks like Boddington, Skelton, Eastman etc. is questionable. "

I don't think it does, and I have a great deal of respect for Boddington especially, but as magazine writers, they live in the very real world where their income directly comes from advertising dollars. I don't think they knowingly misrepresent anything, but they probably adhere to the old "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it" adage with regards to products. Therefore, they're unlikely to strongly condemn any currently made product they test, even though they may offer minor criticisms. Would you if you were in their shoes, armed with the knowledge that you were essentially an extension of the sales dept? There really are few truly "bad" products in the shooting market for which there is no practical use, however limited. There are few brand name rifles, scopes, bullets, etc. that I can't think of at least something nice to say about or that doesn't have a viable use for some application within some budget limitation. For the most part, the gunwriters are going to be testing products that are properly applied for the intended use anyway. Also, say you disagree with something a given magazine publishes... does that make you wrong? What if these published sources don't test products you're personally interested in or what if their criteria for judging the merits of a product aren't the same as yours?

Stated another way, SHOULD it be common for OT members to "reference or quote any independent informational sources?" If I buy a product, use it often, believe in it, and it works for me, am I not my own "independent informational source," and shouldn't that carry enough authoritative weight to make recommendations to others? Is some gunwriter's "real world data" more valuable than my own? If I prefer something, why should I care what someone else thinks about it? There are very few indisputable, 100% etched in stone rules that are applicable to every situation when it comes to gear.

Ted

Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.

Your opinion is of value. But, for example, your opinions on what is required
to hunt Cape Buffalo (gun ammo scope etc) has not the same merit as a PH who has been hunting them for 40 years.
I would expect that OT members, being intelligent folks, would support their opinions with experienced, professional support where appropriate.
FYI, Boddington is hardly dependent on magazine income as he has more family wealth than you or I could dream of, hence no reason to be a whore for advertisers.
I would venture that there are more than a few indisputable, 100% etched in stone rules that are applicable to every situation when it comes to gear. 10X scope to hunt lions in thornbush NO, Kodiak Bear with a 25-35 NO, 16 oz wool pants to
hunt deresrt Bighorn NO and so on. Sound silly? Well people do dumb things all the time because of the lack of good information. Publications as listed above are a source of generally good info even for those of us who have been at it for decades.

i like rifleshooter, and yes boddington writes articles in that magazine, one reason i respect craig is because he was in the military,i enjoy reading his views and like it or not he is respected world wide, another one i respect is layne simpson, he has many years in the field and also many years on the range and behind the reloading bench. craig's last article in rifleshooter covered using 40 caliber rifles in africa i found it a good read not really applicable to me, but intresting anyway. layne simpson is up my alley however, he does a lot of hunting in north america with guns that the average joe uses every hunting season and he shares some of his own handloads.

Your opinion is of value. But, for example, your opinions on what is required to hunt Cape Buffalo (gun ammo scope etc) has not the same merit as a PH who has been hunting them for 40 years. I would expect that OT members, being intelligent folks, would support their opinions with experienced, professional support where appropriate...FYI, Boddington is hardly dependent on magazine income as he has more family wealth than you or I could dream of, hence no reason to be a whore for advertisers.

O.K., but I wouldn't offer opinions on hunting Cape Buffalo to begin with. I can't speak for others, but I either don't comment on topics I have no direct, first-hand experience with, or if I do, I qualify my comments as such. I don't recall anybody ever demanding supporting proof for any statements made on this board on any topic, at least not since our recently departed (and rumored to be resurrected in reptilian form ) ARBITER OF THE TRUTH was invited to provide his expert advice elsewhere.

Your initial premise:

asphunter wrote:

It is not common on OT to reference or quote any independent information sources Given the wealth of "real world" data available from the publications listed (as well as others) I find that curious.

seems to imply that there's something wrong or less credible about OT members' collective experiences unless we're constantly footnoting our posts with reference materials. I've never participated in a discussion board where this was commonplace or even expected. If it were, I for one would find that rather boring and contrived. I come here to hear what OT members think about gear from their own perspectives, not a regurgitation of opinions I can read for myself in magazines. As for Boddington, whom I have tremendous respect for on several levels, he may very well be wealthy enough that he doesn't need income from writing. I don't know. What I do know is his work simply won't be published in magazines if he makes a habit of slamming their advertisers' products.

Ted

Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.

RD, sorry if my intent was misread.You need not be defensive about your opinions because they are not footnoted with attributions from other sources. I find reading a valuable source of information to supplement my own experience(s).
Most of these writers are not put in the position of slamming advertisers because they are using good equipment to start with.
What I do find of interest are their comments on whatever good stuff they are using. For example, Boddington was the first to hunt with the Barnes MRX bullet and gave an in depth report on its performance. He was also first to hunt with the TC 30 in the new ICON. His comments helped me understand why there was an MRX
(shorter than TSX for same weight thus better in 1 & 12 twists and a fantastic BC)and helped confirm my initial lust for an ICON although not in 30 TC as its' a "why bother" cartridge that need special powder to do what a well loaded 308 W will do with cannister powders. (The 308 W is made in the ICON)
If everyone reads everything then there would be little value in sharing other writers' experiences. If that is true then this poll is a waste of time. I don't think we all subscribe to every journal out there so some sharing might provide some valuable insights.
If you want to see some real slamming, subscribe to Gun Tests.
The current issue hammers the new Tauraus 1911 and the Browning A Bolt.

I read a few of the publications above on a regular basis, mainly for entertainment but once in a while to provide a starting point for info on gear I might be interested in. I find it useful to read the opinions of those writers and then followup through researching in other publications or via the internet. In lieu of being able to personally test gear prior to purchase the best most of us can hope for is informed opinion from a variety of sources. If it's possible to also obtain first hand experience from friends/acquaintances so much the better.

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