In other words , we can't copy well too .That's an art over which you hold undisputed rights as well as expertise .We, the Indian members of IDN , herewith ,solemnly resolve , in view of your sombre conclusion that since we lack the skills your nation possesses , we do not make any such attempt to copy but source such requirements from you .We shall convey your valuable advice post haste to the authorities in charge of the defence of our nation .

Btw - how's the development for the engine to power your stealth FA J- 20 coming along ? Out there on PDF , I've read it's already achieved Supercruise . Or are your efforts hampered given that the powerplant of the SU 35 lacks super cruise abilities ? Must be tough designing something original , isn't it ?

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Well, all the modern science and technology all come from the West, Chinese and Japanese learn fast and smartly. Therefore, China is the second economic power in the world right now. A few years ago, Chinese had to use American CPUs to make supercomputer, right now, the Chinese Sunway TaihuLight with Chinese designed CPUs ranking No.1 in the world. Such fact is hard to swallow for the Americans, let alone for your Indians.

By the way, the latest J-20 has been installed with the Chinese homemade WS-10G turbo fan. However, the further upgrade model of J-20 will be installed much powerful WS-15 turbofan which will be ready for use in 5 years time.

Well, all the modern science and technology all come from the West, Chinese and Japanese learn fast and smartly. Therefore, China is the second economic power in the world right now. A few years ago, Chinese had to use American CPUs to make supercomputer, right now, the Chinese Sunway TaihuLight with Chinese designed CPUs ranking No.1 in the world. Such fact is hard to swallow for the Americans, let alone for your Indians.

By the way, the latest J-20 has been installed with the Chinese homemade WS-10G turbo fan. However, the further upgrade model of J-20 will be installed much powerful WS-15 which will be ready for use in 5 years time.

Click to expand...

Congratulations .But you didn't answer my question . When is the J20 going to be equipped with Chinese jet engines which will Supercruise ? Let me further simplify my question . What are the timelines ?

Since you've already built the fastest super computer in the world , this should be a walk in the park .

(a) Provide Fire Support to Assaulting Forces, when required to do so.
(b) Fire while on the move, accurately.
(c) Fire multiple types of Ammunition, including ATGMs.
(d) Include capability to destroy enemy tanks at ranges higher than he can engage us, in a time earlier than he can fire at us, with very high first round hit/kill probability and acquire targets at a longer range.
(e) Engage low flying manned and unmanned rotary wing aircraft.
(f) Engage enemy massed armour led attacks, when part of a defensive layout.

The foreign OEM is to indicate the basic Design (Base Model) of a proven Armoured Fighting Vehicle, based on which the current design is being proposed along with the names of customer Army to whom the same on similar AFVs (model of AFV) has been contracted or delivered. The MoD is desirous of acquiring ToT, including detailed design manufacturing know-how of the Armoured Fighting Vehicles being offered by the OEM. Armament: 120mm or 125mm soft recoil cannon. Ammunition (i) KE (APFSDS). (ii) CE (HEAT, HE). (iii) Gun tube-launched ATGM. Power-to-Weight Ratio not less than 25:1hp/ton. Powerplant will be a 1,500hp multi-fuel engine with automatic transmission.

From the above it is crystal-clear that the IA & MoD does not ewant to entertain ANYTHING from the CVRDE, which is shocking, to say the least! Second, there’s only 1 country that will qualify to bid,. i.e. Russia. For, first firm indications of the kind of futuristic families of armoured vehicles required for the future digitised AirLand battlespace emerged 3 years ago when, following 10 years of operations analysis starting in the mid-1990s and the consequential 10 years of military-industrial R & D work that began in 2005, the Russian Army unveiled its Ob’yekt 148 T-14 Armata MBT, the Ob’yekt 149 T-15 tracked heavy fire-support combat vehicle (FSCV), the Ob’yekt 693 and Ob’yekt 695 Kurganets-25 tracked ICVs, and lastly the 8 x 8 Boomerang VPK-7829 wheeled APC. Just prior to that, the Russian Army had already developed the BMPT-72 FSCV, which will in future be superceded by the Ob’yekt 149 T-15 tracked Heavy ICV.

So, since Russia will emerge as the sole bidder, it will be unacceptable to the MoD that will prefer multiple bids. But since no one else will bid, this reqmt will die an automatic death & it will be back to the drawing boards for the 3rd time (a hat-trick), mark my words! "

The generals told a defence industry gathering that the mechanised forces would be boosted on three parallel tracks

Army chief General Bipin Rawat and a battery of senior generals on Wednesday explained the details of India's biggest-ever weapons acquisition — the ongoing procurement of futuristic tanks and infantry combat vehicles (ICVs), estimated to be worth Rs 80,000-1,00,000 crore each.

Pakistan already feels threatened by India's vast tank strength. This includes three strike corps, each with hundreds of tanks and ICVs. In addition, eight-to-ten tank-heavy "battle groups", drawn from defensive corps, are poised to scythe through Pakistan in a "Cold Start" offensive. While tanks, with their heavy armour protection and huge guns spearhead an advance into enemy territory, tracked ICVs move close behind them, carrying infantrymen to occupy the captured area. The procurement explained by Rawat, which include new tanks and ICVs, would significantly enhance Pakistan's insecurity.

Justifying the build-up, Rawat said: "Tanks are expected to operate on the western front as well as the northern borders [with China]."

The generals told a defence industry gathering that the mechanised forces would be boosted on three parallel tracks. The first is the manufacture of 1,770 advanced, 50-tonne tanks — termed Future Ready Combat Vehicles (FRCVs) — under the "strategic partner" (SP) policy to replace the ageing T-72 fleet. For this, private Indian firms will bid in partnership with global "original equipment manufacturers" (OEMs) to set up a production line in India by 2025-27.

Last Wednesday, the army floated a global "request for information" inviting global OEMs to outline what they would offer India. Simultaneously, the ministry is shortlisting Indian SPs that will bid in partnership with the chosen OEMs. "This process involves identifying a mature, in-service tank in the world, which can be tweaked to meet our requirements," said Lieutenant General M J S Kahlon, the army's planning chief.

While the FRCV will be a derivative of an in-service tank, the "future infantry combat vehicle" (FICV) will be a brand-new, futuristic system. It will be pursued under the "Make" procedure, with the defence ministry funding 90 per cent of the development cost, and the private firm paying 10 per cent. Six firms/consortia have submitted proposals for the FICV, and the MoD must select two. These will design competing FICV prototypes and build an estimated 2,600 of the winning design.
"The FICV and FRCV will be game changers for indigenous defence industry," said the mechanised forces chief, Lieutenant General Ashok Shivane.

Kahlon pointed out that this would be the first time indigenous production would take care of our armoured requirements. "So far, we bought all our armour on a government-to-government basis — from the west till late 1960s and from the Soviet Union and Russia since then."

That dependence forced the army to adapt its warfighting doctrines to platforms that had never been designed with India's tactical needs, geography and manpower in mind. "We bought what was available and adapted our doctrines onto that," rued Kahlon.

Since the FRCV and FICV projects are time-consuming projects, the army will simultaneously upgrade the existing T-72 tank fleet to remain battle-worthy till the new platforms are inducted. Shivane said T-72s would get more powerful engines, day- and night-vision thermal sights, and improved guns and ammunition.
"The chosen vendors would also take care of life cycle management of his equipment, with indigenous solutions coming from him. This would make good operational sense for us and good business sense for the vendors," said Shivane.

The FRCV is intended to carry out roles other than that of a tank. The RFI states it will be the base platform for a range of additional armoured vehicles, including self-propelled artillery and air defence guns, mine trawls, bridge-layer tanks (BLTS), armoured engineering vehicles, etc.
Looking beyond the heavy, tracked FICV, both Rawat and Kahlon raised the need for a wheeled infantry carrier that could move on roads, and in towns and cities, without damaging infrastructure. "Imagine infantry being able to travel in its own transport, with ballistic protection, wherever it needs to go… say all the way up to Leh," said Kahlon.

(a) Provide Fire Support to Assaulting Forces, when required to do so.
(b) Fire while on the move, accurately.
(c) Fire multiple types of Ammunition, including ATGMs.
(d) Include capability to destroy enemy tanks at ranges higher than he can engage us, in a time earlier than he can fire at us, with very high first round hit/kill probability and acquire targets at a longer range.
(e) Engage low flying manned and unmanned rotary wing aircraft.
(f) Engage enemy massed armour led attacks, when part of a defensive layout.

The foreign OEM is to indicate the basic Design (Base Model) of a proven Armoured Fighting Vehicle, based on which the current design is being proposed along with the names of customer Army to whom the same on similar AFVs (model of AFV) has been contracted or delivered. The MoD is desirous of acquiring ToT, including detailed design manufacturing know-how of the Armoured Fighting Vehicles being offered by the OEM. Armament: 120mm or 125mm soft recoil cannon. Ammunition (i) KE (APFSDS). (ii) CE (HEAT, HE). (iii) Gun tube-launched ATGM. Power-to-Weight Ratio not less than 25:1hp/ton. Powerplant will be a 1,500hp multi-fuel engine with automatic transmission.

From the above it is crystal-clear that the IA & MoD does not ewant to entertain ANYTHING from the CVRDE, which is shocking, to say the least! Second, there’s only 1 country that will qualify to bid,. i.e. Russia. For, first firm indications of the kind of futuristic families of armoured vehicles required for the future digitised AirLand battlespace emerged 3 years ago when, following 10 years of operations analysis starting in the mid-1990s and the consequential 10 years of military-industrial R & D work that began in 2005, the Russian Army unveiled its Ob’yekt 148 T-14 Armata MBT, the Ob’yekt 149 T-15 tracked heavy fire-support combat vehicle (FSCV), the Ob’yekt 693 and Ob’yekt 695 Kurganets-25 tracked ICVs, and lastly the 8 x 8 Boomerang VPK-7829 wheeled APC. Just prior to that, the Russian Army had already developed the BMPT-72 FSCV, which will in future be superceded by the Ob’yekt 149 T-15 tracked Heavy ICV.

So, since Russia will emerge as the sole bidder, it will be unacceptable to the MoD that will prefer multiple bids. But since no one else will bid, this reqmt will die an automatic death & it will be back to the drawing boards for the 3rd time (a hat-trick), mark my words! "