Happy New Year, all! I’ll be putting up a “Lessons learned in 2011” post soon. In the meantime, here is a taste of things to come.

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I can come across as anal retentive, even severely Monk-ish. One reason for the madness: with rare exceptions, I’ve come to believe that how we do anything is how we do everything.

I’m not alone.

The following is a short excerpt from The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande, also reprinted by Tehelka magazine in India. In it, we learn the logic of David Lee Roth’s famous obsession with brown M&M’s:

Listening to the radio, I heard the story behind rocker David Lee Roth’s notorious insistence that Van Halen’s contracts with concert promoters contain a clause specifying that a bowl of M&M’s has to be provided backstage, but with every single brown candy removed, upon pain of forfeiture of the show, with full compensation to the band. And at least once, Van Halen followed through, peremptorily cancelling a show in Colorado when Roth found some brown M&M’s in his dressing room. This turned out to be, however, not another example of the insane demands of power-mad celebrities but an ingenious ruse.

As Roth explained in his memoir, Crazy from the Heat, “Van Halen was the first band to take huge productions into tertiary, thirdlevel markets.

We’d pull up with nine 18-wheeler trucks, full of gear, where the standard was three trucks, max. And there were many, many technical errors — whether it was the girders couldn’t support the weight, or the flooring would sink in, or the doors weren’t big enough to move thegear through. The contract rider read like a version of the Chinese Yellow Pages because there was so much equipment, and so many human beings to make it function.” So just as a little test, buried somewhere in the middle of the rider, would be article 126, the no-brown-M&M’s clause. “When I would walk backstage, if I saw a brown M&M in that bowl,” he wrote, “well, we’d line-check the entire production. Guaranteed you’re going to arrive at a technical error… Guaranteed you’d run into a problem.” These weren’t trifles, the radio story pointed out. The mistakes could be lifethreatening. In Colorado, the band found the local promoters had failed to read the weight requirements and the staging would have fallen through the arena

Do you have any similar tests that you’ve found helpful in business, hiring, life, or love?

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223 Replies to “No Brown M&M's! David Lee Roth and the Power of Checklists”

Love the story and a great example of a simple way to check for the important things. Here are two I have used.

1. My wife and I owned an upscale inn and fine dining restaurant for 10 years. When interviewing for front desk, house keeping or hostess positions, we would leave a small piece of trash, such as a candy wrapper, right by the front entry to the inn. The interviewee would have to step over it to enter. Most would not bother to pick up, the ones that did we generally hired. We were a high-end property, and aesthetics and cleanliness were paramount. This was a simple way to test if applicants had an eye for detail and also cared about appearance. My wife was the one who devised this test, so can’t take full credit.

2. This ties into the Pareto principal from 4HWW. In my law practice I learned early on that the clients that haggled the most about price, also required more time yet were the slowest to pay. I always offered a free consultation and provided substantial information during the consultation to point that some, if so inclined, could pursue advice independently. However, if clients haggled on the price I would generally thank them and wish them luck. Every time I made an exception to this rule, I ended up with more headaches, less money, and wasted time and energy pursuing them for slow payments, and in some instances never received payment at all. If you can ascertain traits of the 20% that create most problems/work or pay least, develop some filter to avoid engaging them. I think this is as equally as important as defining characteristics of the 20% that generate the most return and duplicating them as Tim explains in 4HWW.

This is interesting. I had heard this story before but I never considered that it could be a test to see how serious the venues were in supporting David Lee Roth, to ensure they had a great show, therefore David Lee Roth could keep his brand elevated.

I’m wondering how I can use this lesson to my benefit. Right now I’m not sure, but it does make me think I better make sure I’m taking care of all the little details with my clients and not just writing off little things like brown M&Ms.

In hiring, I’ve intentionally misspelled words in job ads to find out which candidates are forthright to test character and grammatically sharp.

Another (even better) hiring story from a personal mentor of mine. Heard this gem after surveying friends and colleagues a few years ago on hiring stories… from her own words

“We were looking for a new operations manager, and because we had “failed” at the last two hires (no one could get along with the new guy), we devised a plan to see what the REAL person was behind the interview façade that people normally put up. Instead of our regular receptionist, warehouse crew and phone support people, we populated those positions with the office manager, the sales manager, the CEO and the CEO’s mother! During the first interview, the candidate was given a tour of the facility and introduced to the bogus staff people, who paid close attention to his attitude towards the “less important” people in the company.

Most of the candidates did well, and were polite and respectful. However, one man was borderline rude and condescending to the men – but the worst thing was his attitude towards the women. He couldn’t get his eyes above the breasts of our CEO’s mother; she reported that he never did make eye contact while being introduced to her. When he was finally brought into the interview room, the management team confronted him with the truth. I thought he was going to have a stroke. It was sublimely funny and satisfying to listen to him backpedaling and trying to explain himself.”

Thought this was an insanely clever idea…. and thanks to all the people who created the need for clever trickery in order to cut to the chase 😉

Tim, I know this is buried in the comments so you may never read it but I still wanted to check back in and tell you how grateful I am for the Kindle Fire. I use it all the time and it’s a conversation starter that always leads to talking about “Four Hour”. Thank you!

When I worked as a Customer Service Manager, we had all our employees take a Disc personality test as part of a team building training. I found out that my three top performing Customer Service Reps had the same profile and my worst three had the same profile. After that during the interviewing process, I would only hire new employees within that profile. The performance of my group dramatically improved in the measurement of customer satisfaction.

In my karate business, when new student call, I make them ask for the tuition three times by redirecting the conversation. If they ask the third time, I give them the tuition and hang up the phone. From experience, I found that people who ask three times before coming in to try our program are more interested in price then quality. I found from experience that these prospects if they join our program complain more, cause more billing problems, and are the parent’s of the most difficult and distruptive students (apple does fall far from the tree).

I completely agree, the only thing that keeps me focused and on task in the age of the internet is a handwritten to do list. Toggl is also a handy tool to track your tasks on your computer, but I love handwritten lists first of all.

The advice and tips behind comments in this thread are great (I’ve been adding them to Evernote), but seriously, we’ve heard the salt story and the car lock story… and the add a line to the email response story.

But I must admit, I didn’t read all the comments before I first pressed submit. There wasn’t a direction that told me I had to wait and read before commenting 😉

This is an interesting anecdote but the corrolation between the lack of attention to the M&Ms and the safety issues seems like a big jump to me.

Could one argue that, while the staff worries about checking the details of the contract or removing the M&M, they are not spending the allocated time to worry about the ‘real deal’? (setting up these concerts venue is typically a lengthly process and it helps to be detail oriented about the right things I would think).

I was asked to do a technical interview when we hired a new support tech. I told each candidate that I had recently encountered a problem and asked them how they would provide phone support while I played the customer. My goal wasn’t to solve the problem, but to see how patient they were over the phone, what kind of questions they would ask, how long they would keep working on the problem, and how they would leave the problem if it was still unsolved. We got a good candidate and eliminated a dud.

Are you familiar with “Muscle Milk?” Tons of protein. Can I drink this stuff on the diet? What did you make the pizza crust out of? Can you use white flour – I’m guessing wheat flour is best. What about whole wheat bread?

Table Rock is one of the highest peaks in the Upstate of South Carolina. A fairly easy climb for anyone semi-active… I used it to determine “girlfriend material”. The ones that bitched, complained, wore gobs of makeup on the climb, etcetera got cut from the roster the next day.

The test worked – my wife made it to the top and we’ve been together 12 years.

I’m a Conscious Lifestyle Coach and no doubt this awareness will provide the space for powerful breakthroughs for some of my clients.

Also, I’m developing a “Vision Creation” process at the moment and this insight alone has opened up a myriad more. Key among them, and related to your quote, is the philosophy of acting/creating from the grandest vision of ourselves, instead of from a smaller limiting version of who we often perceive ourselves to be. Without exception.

It is a useful mantra when disciplining oneself. However, it is a very dangerous concept when judging others. Ultimately, the quote is incorrect. It is only a mind-trick, which uses the human tendency to stereotype for efficiency.

I’m sure even Tim Ferriss does things in a way that he hopes the world doesn’t judge all of his doings on. Just because he recklessly experimented stem cells on himself, should we assume that he is reckless on every thing he does? Is he suicidal? Of course not.

“How we do one thing is not always how we do everything.” Just because you screw up at work, does not mean you screw up with your children.

I find that some people get too excited by Quotes. They seem to be very susceptible to the feeling of false justification and superiority that Quotes bring. Somehow reciting these quotes see to give people authority who dare to go against it. of course that is ridiculous .

Famous people have said many things over human history and not all of them are good. In fact many of their quotes are contradictory to each other. Some quotes comes out thin air and linger because “it sounds good:.

I think it will be important to explain to your clients the clear difference of using this quote on themselves oppose to others.

I agree that the distinction between internal evaluation vs. external judgement needs to be made. For me, and in my line of work, it’s always about self-reflection. And I don’t believe it’s ever about judgement in any way, shape or form…not of others and certainly not of self.

On the note of quotes, they’re written based on someone’s experience of a situation/person/object, so they’re going to be subjective. It’s not about making them either right or wrong, but rather, looking at how much they resonate with you. In my opinion, quotes are open to interpretation. If they speak to you, great. If they don’t, leave them and move on. Not all quotes will be relevant to all people all the time.

This particular “How we do anything is how we do everything” quote resonates strongly with me. I see it simply as a phrase to reflect on, and see what comes up. I think we all establish patterns for doing things to varying degrees, not just literally, but emotionally/psychologically too. Avoidance is a pattern. So are things like fear, procrastination, rebellion, subservience, defensiveness, people-pleasing, perfectionism. Even judgement. Often, these patterns operate under the radar and show up in different ways, in more than one area of our lives, without us seeing them. So yes, sometimes this quote does hold true. And I think there’s value in bringing these patterns into our awareness, observing them in action and asking: “What patterns have I subconsciously established? Where else in my life do these patterns show up? In which areas do they serve me and in which areas are they holding me back? If they’re holding me back, how can I do things differently in order to move forward?”

I am in agreement that it can be dangerous to take quotes like these at face value and blindly subscribe to them without question, especially if an individual is prone to making assumptions or generalisations to begin with. It comes down to being conscious of how you’re using them and what you’re using them for.

Sometimes we need checklists to be able to get to where we want to go with ourselves and our lives. I think that can make these beneficial when we are getting ready to get started with automating or eliminating things from our lives.

The Problem is, what if you are the concert promoter and KNOW the band’s expectation regarding to the M&M’s? All you have to do is put the black ones out… the rest of the quality of the ENTIRE live-concert backstage building job is secondary.

In my opinion, that’s what Audi plays in their cars. The interior is of superb quality, but the technical parts are not any better than these of the other (german) competitors. Why? Because they understood that all you have to do is take effect on all parts that are directly expecianceable by the customer (per eye, ear, nose and touch), which is the interior and the exterior, but not the things “inside” the car. People will experience with their senses and say, wow, if that’s of good quality, the whole rest of the car MUST be also like that.

I’m in the middle of reading your book right now. I’m on the section of creating a “muse” to test out your business processes.

I thought it’d be cool to see if I can use you and your website as the “muse”

The goal for me will be to create a business model with that drives traffic to your website (or promotes something else you are doing) and use the criteria that you outline in the book to do so.

I think it’d be a great way to show your readers how these principles really work in practice and it’s a way to say thank you for giving us this information, as you can benefit directly from someone putting your methods into practice.

Hi Tim nice to meet your blog !!!!!!- I was hoping hoping you could join me in participating in a cyber blog project.

Not sure if you have heard of Craig Harper from Australia.

in 2012 Craig is committed to making me-dot-com a much more practical (as opposed to purely theoretical) and interactive place to hang out.

The Objective of the Project

This project is all about doing something different to create something different. A different result. Mindset. Expectation. It’s about creating momentum. And emotional shift. It’s about opening a new door. Breaking down a barrier. Or two. Stepping out of those familiar and comfortable habits and patterns. It’s about commitment. It’s about finishing something. For once. Turning down the cerebral noise. Learning something new. And, it’s about having an experience that you (otherwise) would not have had. Bottom line; it’s about growth.

Dave’s M&Ms reminds me of Jim Collins’ piece years back “Turning Goals Into Results: The Power of Catalytic Mechanisms.” Was in Harvard Business Review and easily found. An excerpt:

“Most executives have a big, hairy, audacious goal. One dreams of making his brand more popular than Coke; another aspires to create the most lucrative Web site in cyberspace; yet another longs to see her organization act with the guts necessary to depose its arch rival. So, too, most executives ardently hope that their outsized goals will become a reality. To that end, they write vision statements, deliver speeches, and launch change initiatives. They devise complicated incentive programs, formalize rules and checklists, and pen policies and procedures. In other words, with the best intentions, they create layer upon layer of stultifying bureaucracy. Is it any surprise that their wildly ambitious dreams are seldom realized? But companies don’t have to act that way. Over the past six years, I have observed and studied a simple yet extremely powerful managerial tool that helps organizations turn goals into results. I have recently codified it; I call it the catalytic mechanism. Catalytic mechanisms are the crucial link between objectives and performance; they are a galvanizing, nonbureaucratic means to turn one into the other. Put another way, catalytic mechanisms are to vision what the central elements of the U.S. Constitution are to the Declaration of Independence—devices that translate lofty aspirations into concrete reality. They make big, hairy, audacious goals reachable.”

Awesome story with a great message. I have occasionally put requests for action on a powerpoint slide during speeches and presentation to see if people are actually reading or seeing what’s up there. Not only does it remind people to pay attention, it’s a nice little break in the nice especially if it’s a longer session.

I found a lot of anecdotal evidence in my life for “the way you do anything you do everything”

As far as checklists go, I used to fly and I can admit…those checklists are damn important. We would have them for safety checks, pre-flight checks, landing checks. A useful trick was to use an acronym to remember the steps in the checklist.

Am I the only person who disagrees with the “how you do anything is how you do everything” mantra?

I am in grad school and once had a professor tell me that there are some people who are making C’s when they should be making A’s. They are simply wasting time playing x-box when they could be studying. There are other people are making A’s when they should be making C’s. These are the students who have a spouse, family, and a business to take care of and must be neglecting one of those to put in the necessary work to make an A.

I totally agree with this and commonly write a quick “C” paper because I think that my clients are more important than a grad school paper that the professor won’t read anyways.

Would one then look at me and say, he performs at a B or C level in grad school, therefore he must perform at a B or C level in life and business? By no means. Would they look at the detail and excellence I apply to my business and say that I must probably perform at an A level in school as well?

Does one look at the many college dropout entrepreneurs and say, “they’ll be quitters the rest of their lives?”

To me, the whole “a messy car means a messy life” is a great idea, but it really breaks down in application.

There’s some items on my “prospective girlfriend” checklist, that I compiled from experience. I check nails, hair and adequate odor and clothing. By adequate, I mean not too little, not too much.

Then I’ll go for the crazy tests. I’ll talk about my cat to check if she hates cats (we’ll not get along very well in this case.) I’ll check her degree, if there’s none, or if she did something that is boring (like liberal arts, social science, administration, economy), or if she’s not excited about her degree, I’ll raise a flag: time waster’s are not the most desirable persons. I’ll check for repeated substance abuse or drug use. I’ll check for kids; having is not really a problem, not wanting is a deal breaker, and if she uses the “freedom” excuse I’ll puke on her: it’s the lamest excuse ever. I’ll check the calligraphy: too perfect is a sign of something hidden, too ugly is a sign of plain psychopathy, hard too read (with the exception of Med Students) is a sign that she doesn’t want to be understood. I’ll cancel a date to play video games or go to the gym to see if she allows some time for myself. I’ll test for condom use (details omitted :)). I’ll ask to go to the park and check if she goes with comfortable shoes.

Sounds like a lot, but it isn’t. I’ll not commit to stay (maybe for life) with a woman that is controlling, boring, doesn’t want to have kids, has something to hide, doesn’t take chances, lacks self care or may destroy herself or myself.

Kind of revolting being rejected by the shoes or calligraphy, huh? Let’s make this point more explicit: the idea that someone can know someone else by the shoes (“You can know a lot about a man from the shoes he’s wearing” kind of story), or whatever else, is the same as I’m saying to someone that my star sign is Aquarius and hearing back that I’m “air headed”. The single fact that someone can extract my star sign is that I was probably born in February, and certainly not between March and December. Any other information inferred from that fact is a reflection of that person’s beliefs. My worn out All Star pair will only say for certain that I use it a lot. I would certainly not like to be rejected because of one pair of shoes, but it would be for the better. Too much futility in the mind is not for me.

As you can infer now, I don’t do some of the checks in that list. I certainly check for future kids, drug abuse, and cat hating, and not actively, this information usually appears naturally (also, I’ll use the condoms myself). My real checklist is more focused on myself. If I’m feeling fine with what’s going on, that a good sign. Otherwise, I would check with myself what created the bad feeling and correct course.

Great list btw, it’s cool checking back in on your blog after a while and finding lots of great posts! Will definitely be checking the book recommendation out, your book recommendations are almost always good and insightfull!

One I’ve used to great effect as a female property developer is when dealing with potential builders or engineers (males that is) for a project. The first thing I say after swapping contacts is ‘strictly business – do not call for anything else at all’. Some get it and we have a great working relationship and others don’t and within days are calling on any and everything but business – these types are swiftly blocked and never again contacted (quite a few have missed out on 10’s of thousands of £’s in work as a result).

It basically shows a distinct lack of regard or respect for my boundaries – who knows what they would be like on an actual site.

I have a client who uses an M&M test of sorts. Hes a Swedish tour operator called Per Gunnar (Im a jungle lodge operator in Peru) and he visits hundreds of hotels a year to inspect their quality. Instead of checking elevators, pools, beds, toilets, and the myriads of things you could check, he only looks at three:

– Clothes hangers in the closets: if they dont match then the hotel doesnt have maintenance and / or attention to detail.

– Smells the pillows: if they smell bad what difference does it make that the rest of the bed is good?

– Looks at the holes in the showers: if their dirty it means housekeeping is not looking where they should.

I am a scientist and director or a research laboratory. Before taking a hire to the level of an interview, I engage the candidate in an exchange of five emails. I look carefully at the quality of writing. Most people think that science and writing are distinct, but actually a person’s ability to think analytically and creatively is displayed quite transparently through writing. As a trivial example with regard to carelessness: applicants generally carefully check the first (intro) email for typos and spelling/grammatical mistakes, but their natural levels of meticulousness and English fluency become evident with a bit more correspondence. I’ve learned the hard way that a minimal investment on my part with regard to those five emails can save me valuable time later in vetting a candidate. Out of roughly 200 applications, I normally only interview 3-5, and my success rate with those hires has increased dramatically.

again, great read and AMAZING comments…and only 1/3rd of the way thru them!

I still offer 1on1 coaching from time to time, on the very short and simple sales page on my blog, I list a few questions and then my email address (written out, not a link) and tell them to email me the their info

You can see on the lower part of the page in the comments section who clearly missed that part

I put that in as a test so guys who don’t pay attention to the small details (it’s all small details) don’t waste my time.

HA This trick was used in college as the professor said ‘follow the instructions’…. the first instruction was to read through the test…. 3rd to last question was skip question 1. Ingenious! Ive always loved that brown MM story!

More on this topic; here is a recent story from the Fox station in Detroit. Also a five minute video from the very source for the subject of this thread: David Lee Roth talking about the brown M&M rider and some myth perpetuated by it.

My interview technique is to ask the usual questions simply as a way to get the candidate to feel comfortable with me and the surroundings.. get their shields down a bit so that they will open up a bit for the *zinger* question.

The zinger is that I ask them why they are who they are. It’s usually prefaced with something that I learned about them … “Given your past accomplishments, you are a very talented individual. You could be doing a number of things with your skills. Why did you pick ___ as your career?”

Either they

1. Stumble around and never give a satisfying answer. These have immediately disqualified themselves.

2. Have never thought of that before, but within a few minutes have been able to articulate their passions.

3. They know EXACTLY who they are and why they are there and explode with enthusiasm.

After this question, it’s immediately clear to them and to me if theirs a match or not. The 2 & 3s know that (based on this unusual question), this is going to be a much more thoughtful and engaging job than others they might be considering. I end up not only knowing their strengths, but knowing why they are strong and therefore how I can leverage their strengths in other areas.

What an amazing read the Checklist Manifesto was, loved it. As for creating tests to see if people can follow directions we see this all the time in the investing world. People promising to send something, do something or “take care of it” when really they’re just paying lip service. As our world gets more and more complicated the only way to decipher between who’s ‘good’ and who claims to be good is to test them. I think it’s a brilliant idea. Great post.

where creative requests landed me a prom date . I was attending a nation business competition conference going home with a couple of top ten medals but no date. I noticed two gals(one introverted, one extroverted) going on the same bus to the same plane as i.smitten by the introvert, i whispered to the more outgoing type, “if your friend says a whole sentence, i´ll take her to prom at my school ´´ she encouraged her pal with giddiness. The lady complies and is flabbergasted to learn why she did what she did. On the plane back, a chess knight’s move away, she writes on an airline sickness bag a /maybe/ while making the bag look like a kitten. at least i have her phone #. I texted back asking her for her favorite colour. simple request. mine was royal blue, hers was teal.

Later on we agreed to meet each at her corresponding school( same district as mine by the way) for a volunteer activity. I met her father, a network and programming specialist , who affirms that i am acceptable on account of being tech savvy and courteous.

One more test date: Great gatsby movie. We both read it and we are both fans of the 1920s so it should be suitable. BUT i asked on thing just as the opening lines came: “Everytime the phrase ”old sport” is spoken i will *kisses cheek” and you alternate on evens. with every 5th *quick 1 to the lips*” she agreed! old sport is mentioned 35-45 times but we liberally applied the complex rules(and by liberal i mean we just directly on every instance after a while …..you know how teens are). prom lived up to its name for me, an Enchanted Evening. her promenade dress? shades of blue near royal/navy .And i am still seeing her. good luck old sport ~Jesse

This may not fit in as a test, but feels similar to me. I used to be a civil engineer. My engineering designs would be reviewed by several older engineers before being given the go for construction. Often each reviewer would mark up my designs with alterations, many of which felt arbitrary to me. I felt they looked for things to comment on, just to show they were doing their job as a reviewer. So….. I would intentionally put in an obvious mistake. One that would require me the least amount of effort to change, such as making the north arrow on a set of plans pointing west! My designs would come back from everyone with the west pointing north arrow circled in red with notes to correct it. This strategy cut way down on my time spent reworking my designs. Just two minutes redirecting the north arrow and I was done!

Uh… Van Halen was not the first band to take mega-productions into tertiary markets (back in the day everybody played those shows), they didn’t invent the nitpick rider, everybody already knew this is why the rider said “no brown M&Ms,” and most of what DLR says about anything is bullshit. Hope this helps.

When I would interview new bartenders, I would first ask them to make me a “virgin” rum & coke, if they didn’t laugh immediately or paused at all, they didn’t get a second question. “Sorry, you’re just not going to fit in here.”