My opinion is that the buffer is not as effective as when connected directly to the pickup selector, so it's always getting the signal directly from the pickups regardless of whether the OBEL is engaged or not. That is how Jerry had it. The buffer is always in the signal.

brian.tele wrote:... My questions is, does the buffer impact the signal when the OBEL is bypassed and the signal goes straight from the guitar to the amp?

If the buffer does impact the direct signal (with the OBEL bypassed), is there any way to achieve that without having a buffer mounted in the guitar?...

Yes, the buffer does change the sound even when not using the OBEL's loop and just going straight to the amp. One of the central aspects of using a buffer in the guitar is that it eliminates the effects of cable capacitance on a pickup's tone. By buffering (blocking, isolating) the pickup from the cable, the pickup then has a smoother, flatter response, more extended highs. And another aspect is that the buffering allows you to use a lower value volume pot. That lower value pot helps contribute to the ability for a buffered guitar to have the exact same tone at any setting of the guitar's volume knob. Tremendous benefits of on-board buffering.

If you don't buffer inside the guitar, you are then faced with that cable length and the high-value volume pot, and it indeed does alter the tone of the pickup. I find that the buffered guitar sound is very, very central to the Jerry sound, that detail and presence and clarity of even the slightest picking nuances and all that goodness at ANY setting of the guitar's volume knob.

And be sure it's a GOOD buffer. There are some less than great sounding buffers out there that, sadly, too many people put in their guitars.

On board is best as Brad said there is no high end no loss from cable capacitance. If on board is not an option put the buffer pedal as close to the guitar as possible and with quality cable. I have seen some buffer boxes attach to guitar strap so as to only have a foot of cable before the buffer. I have a Sarno Music Solutions Steel Guitar Black Box a tube powered buffer and it sounds incredible. It is on the floor before the pedal board with just a 6 foot good quality cable from the guitar.

Diggey wrote:So, can someone explain how the guitar tone reacts to a buffer pedal? Same thing just not "onboard"? Where does it go in the chain? First in the chain I assume from guitar to buffer?

The buffer does not react the same as in the guitar. You will still lose some highs due to the guitar volume pot and your guitar cord unless you have it in the guitar. Has some effect, but nothing like having it in the guitar.

The buffer onboard the guitar makes a dramatic difference compared to both a normal (unbuffered) guitar and a guitar signal chain with buffer on the floor in the first pedal. Now that I've been using the onboard buffer, I prefer not to go without it. It's a whole different experience that's positive in all ways.

I've been having a blast with my Post Wolf with OBEL with Wald buffer. Previously I was playing a strat with stratoblaster (no OBEL). The buffer has helped tremendously with the envelope filter and solved a nasty pedal pop issue I was having with my modded VOX wah. Around the time I received my Wolf I also ordered a Loop Master 10 port switcher to limit tone suck of my daisy chained pedals and to hopefully cure the wah pedal pop by being able to leave the pedal on at all times.

The folks at Loop Master like to take their own sweet time when it comes to building and shipping. It was a few days short of 3 months to receive it. Now that I have it, it's dawned on me that I need 20 patch cables now for the Loop Master pedal board and its a 26 inch long behemoth that will require me to build an new board. I'd like to keep my set up as compact and portable as possible.

My question is - with the OBEL is it worth it to install the loop master? All of my pedals sound fine to my ear in the daisy chain arrangement, but is there still some tone loss in a daisy chain arrangement with the OBEL?

Shall we go, you and I while we can? Through the transitive night fall of diamonds...

I wouldn't use it. With all of the additional cables and internal wiring of the unit, your gonna add capacitance, which will suck tone. Keep it as simple as possible, and if it's a Jerry rig you are after, as close as possible to his set up.

I'm not sure that's correct Searing75. I have done extensive tone tests with my Wald-buffered OBEL axes with and without my 8-channel programmable looper and there is no difference in tone when I engage the 8th pedal ain the chain with all prior 7 engaged vs. the same sequence without the looper. However, the looper allows for some very convenient programming for rapid pedal switches (e.g., Octave + Mutron change to OD1). Plus, the looper eliminates popping when you engage the effects and it allows the pedals to be rackmounted. I made a harness for my looper using a 20-channel cable and I keep it wound up and connected for rapid on stage set-up.

Thanks for the feedback. Given that I don't have any discernible tone suckage and the buffer had cured my pedal pop, I think I'm going to forego the loop master for now for the sake of having as compact a board as possible. I'd like to keep the board to 8 powered pedals given the 8 outputs of my Voodoo labs power supply. The loop master requires power for the LEDs. I'm going to retire my stratoblaster pedal for now as well.