When did that happen? I always assumed he just bought her a dog that looked like the one that passed away :\

In one of the Echo Photos it shows a dead dog behind a car, Harry hit and killed the dog on accident which is why he went and got one that looked almost exactly the same.

That explains it. I could get any echo photos until my fourth playthrough because I never really understood how (the shadows were very discreet, in my opinion)

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the way you take the key the wallet represents Cheryl feeling as if something had been stolen from her, which fits in perfectly with what I think the blood represents: its an exaggerated sign that the rape was probably Cheryl's first sexual encounter.

Her first time was probably forced by Steve.

Yuki wrote:

I could've sworn that there's one echo that insists that they "never meant" for this to happen or for it to go this far or some such thing, and I could've sworn that it came from the stranded category. Could someone please confirm this? I really don't want to play the game a fifth time with my huge backlog of games...

Guys....in my very first post on this subject, I clearly said the blood was exaggerated to symbolize the extremity of the situation.

I know girls don't bleed like the elevators in the Shining their first time, but they do often bleed, and rape is a violent act. So the rape is represented and symbolized in an extreme way--this makes perfect sense considering we're playing in the mind of the person who, according to my theory here, was raped. She would remember it as something extreme.

You guys have played through the entire SH franchise, this isn't the first instance where we've had a past act symbolized in an extreme, exaggerated way to emphasize the impact it had on someone. That's all I'm saying here. Could it be wrong? Sure. But I see way too many clues to ignore it.

Plus, I don't see how "rape = big ass bloody streak leading to a big ass pit that goes down and down and down and down with a sillohoute of Cheryl looking down it like she just saw Samara fall down the well"

Blood and a coat are only sexual symbols if you REALLY WANT THEM TO BE.

Stop trying so hard.

.......

How is this hard, in any way imaginable. Look, I'll even explain it without using complete sentences.

Girl

Discomfort at Party

Drugs (which, you know, hinder judgment? Specifically at parties?)

Girl Now Running Around Naked (if a naked girl isn't a sexual symbol to you, I don't know what to say, but also consider she's now running around at the party where she was just comfortable)

Sleeping Bag (people sleep in these, and people have a tendency to have sex in things they sleep in, so if we have a naked girl running around something people have sex in we're validated in assuming its sexual)

Discarded Coat in the Middle of a Blizzard (because people tend to take off clothes in order to have sex? So now we have a naked girl, a place where people can have sex coupled with the naked girl, and discarded girls' clothing)

=

SEXUAL ACTIVITY

Also, let me add as Exhibit Fucking Z the fact that nearly the entire game involves issues of deviant sexuality, whereas none of it involves murder in anyway that could be considered significant or important.

Now, lets take SEXUAL ACTIVITY and add SHITLOAD OF BLOOD ALL OVER EVERYTHING, and I am going to say: RAPE.

Because RAPE = VIOLENCE + SEX

How that is "trying too hard" I have not a single damn clue, because those dots fucking connect, a lot better than saying a random ass murder happened when there is almost nothing to indicate it.

I really don't care if you agree with me, but don't pull this bullshit allegation that what I'm saying is coming out of fucking left-field, with absolutely nothing to support it other than the asshole claim that I "REALLY WANT IT TO BE THAT WAY."

Uh, parties + teenagers + drugs = fuckery, not 100%, without a doubt, fucking. Hell, parties + ANYONE + drugs = fuckery. I'm not saying that sex is automatically exempt from the equation but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's going to happen every. single. time. Your comments about the removed clothing don't scream SEX!!! to me. It screams people doing stupid shit when they're either drunk or stoned.

And since when is a naked girl automatically a sex symbol? Naked is naked. We're born naked. The only time naked people are sex symbols are when THEY'RE FUCKING. But maybe I'd have to be a guy to get that...?

To be a nitpicker, rape never involves sex as rape and sex are two different things. Rape is a violent act that violates. Sex can include violence but is never a violation since it's consensual. That's all I wanted to say about that :3

Uh, parties + teenagers + drugs = fuckery, not 100%, without a doubt, fucking. Hell, parties + ANYONE + drugs = fuckery. I'm not saying that sex is automatically exempt from the equation but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's going to happen every. single. time. Your comments about the removed clothing don't scream SEX!!! to me. It screams people doing stupid shit when they're either drunk or stoned.

And since when is a naked girl automatically a sex symbol? Naked is naked. We're born naked. The only time naked people are sex symbols are when THEY'RE FUCKING. But maybe I'd have to be a guy to get that...?

To be a nitpicker, rape never involves sex as rape and sex are two different things. Rape is a violent act that violates. Sex can include violence but is never a violation since it's consensual. That's all I wanted to say about that :3

.....oh my God.

I am saying: I came to this conclusion about what happened in the forest stage of the videogame, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. I came to this conclusion using CONTEXT CLUES in this videogame. I have laid out the clues that led me to it. You are welcome to consider said clues however you want, but there is logic and thought that is leading me down the theoretical path I'm heading. Furthermore, I have never claimed at any time, in any way, that said context clues create an over-arcing rule or law that somehow applies to all events, both real and fictional, in all situations.

My annoyance here is stemming from the fact that everyone is acting like I'm just making this shit up. My point is that I'm not, I'm making a deduction from clues I'm finding in the videogame.

Please, tell me where I ever, in any way, shape or form, said, claimed or typed, anything that even resembles the following:

I said in THIS INSTANCE, in this video game known as SILENT HILL SHATTERED MEMORIES, that this one naked girl--who can be assumed to be Cheryl Heather Mason, who know has a history of deviant sexual activity--running around naked near sleeping bags, is something I take as a sexual symbol.

But to that second quote there, even though it was a cheap misinterpretation of something I didn't even say, its been fair game to take naked girls as sex symbols pretty much since:

Naked men and women are OFTEN taken as sexual symbols, even when they're not fucking. Shit, inanimate OBJECTS are often expressed as sexual symbols.

Venus isn't fucking in that painting, but she is still very much a sexual symbol. You arrive at her symbolism of sexuality through the examination of context clues. Some of the clues you have to consider come from things NOT EVEN DIRECTLY DEPICTED IN THE PAINTING--like the fact that the painting was originally commissioned as a wedding gift and hung over the couple's bed, specifically to encourage fertility--or THINGS THAT ARE NO LONGER RELEVANT TODAY--like the fact that sea shells were once considered a symbol of a woman's vulva. But all of those things come together to form the intended message.

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To be a nitpicker, rape never involves sex as rape and sex are two different things. Rape is a violent act that violates. Sex can include violence but is never a violation since it's consensual. That's all I wanted to say about that :3

While I agree with you that rape is not about sex, rape does almost always involve sexual intercourse, or sexual activity. Yes, its violent and it violates, because its not consensual. But you can't deny that it involves the reproductive genital parts of the human anatomy in important and definitive, although yes wrong, ways.

Look, I've really enjoyed discussing things with you guys in my time on this forum, but this is the first time I've had to contend with so many people just plain not fucking reading what I'm saying, and then coming at me with bizarre mis-readings and trying to shove words in my mouth.

So let's clear a lot of shit up before the next one of you decides to take something I'm not saying and use it as if I am:

Things I am not saying, nor have I ever said:

-A naked girl is always a sex symbol-Kids always fuck at parties, 100% of the time-Kids always fuck when drugs are at parties, 100% of the time-Kids always rape at parties, 100% of the time-Kids always rape when drugs are at parties, 100% of the time-Kids always fuck when they take off clothes, 100% of the time-Kids always rape when they take off clothes, 100% of the time-Girls bleed like fucking stuck pigs when they lose their virginity-Rape smears entire buildings in blood-Rape is consensual-Rape is sex-Sex always includes rape-Coats are sexual symbols 100% of the time-Bloody coats are sexual symbols 100% of the time-Sleeping bags are sexual symbols 100% of the time-Blood sleeping bags are sexual symbols 100% of the time

Things I am Saying:

-I think this specific bloody sleeping bag, in this one video game, is an indication that something bad and sexual in nature occurred in this one level of this one specific video game-I think this specific bloody discarded coat, in this one video game, is an indication that something bad and sexual in nature occurred in this one level of this one one specific video game-I think this specific drugged naked girl running around, in this one video game, is an indication that something bad and sexual in nature occurred in this one level of this one specific video game-I think this specific party that made a girl feel uncomfortable and then she wanted to leave but couldn't, in this one video game, is an indication that something bad and sexual in nature occurred in this one level of this one specific video game -I think that the fact that the very next stage revolves almost entirely around Cheryl's deviant sexual history makes this stage and introduction to the subject-I think that the fact that most of the damn game involves sex is another reason that makes my theory here contingent with the rest of the game-I think the fact that murder is a complete non-issue throughout the entire damn game makes it difficult for me to believe that they just threw a random murder that never comes up and is never addressed in any other way throughout the entire game

Good fucking Lord. I am FINE if you guys don't agree. I don't mind that you think this:

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Your comments about the removed clothing don't scream SEX!!! to me. It screams people doing stupid shit when they're either drunk or stoned.

But for the love of Christ, if you're going to come at me with an argument or contend with what I'm saying, at least fucking refer to actual things I'm saying.

Sleeping Bag (people sleep in these, and people have a tendency to have sex in things they sleep in, so if we have a naked girl running around something people have sex in we're validated in assuming its sexual)

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to squeeze two people into a single sleeping bag? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to have sex in one? Do you have any idea how uncomfortable it is to have sex on a rounded rock?

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SEXUAL ACTIVITY

Also, let me add as Exhibit Fucking Z the fact that nearly the entire game involves issues of deviant sexuality, whereas none of it involves murder in anyway that could be considered significant or important.

But it does involve death to a heavy degree.

Also lolMalcolm.

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.....oh my God.

I am saying: I came to this conclusion about what happened in the forest stage of the videogame, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. I came to this conclusion using CONTEXT CLUES in this videogame. I have laid out the clues that led me to it. You are welcome to consider said clues however you want, but there is logic and thought that is leading me down the theoretical path I'm heading. Furthermore, I have never claimed at any time, in any way, that said context clues create an over-arcing rule or law that somehow applies to all events, both real and fictional, in all situations.

My annoyance here is stemming from the fact that everyone is acting like I'm just making this shit up. My point is that I'm not, I'm making a deduction from clues I'm finding in the videogame.

Okay. Our annoyance stems from the fact that you're acting all haughty and acting like your interpretation is better than everyone else's and that our coming to different conclusions means we're missing simple clues like we're fucking retarded or unable to read what you're saying. Knock it off, it's getting real fucking annoying real fucking fast. I laid out my reasoning why I think what I did, and you dismissed it without any sort of actual refutation at all.

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Because I didn't. Ever. Anywhere.

lol lies.

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Girl Now Running Around Naked (if a naked girl isn't a sexual symbol to you, I don't know what to say, but also consider she's now running around at the party where she was just comfortable)

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-I think this specific bloody sleeping bag, in this one video game, is an indication that something bad and sexual in nature occurred in this one level of this one specific video game

The echo message near the sleeping bag is accompanied by giggling. I don't know about you, but I don't think girls giggle when someone is forcibly penetrating their orifices with a penis.

Sleeping Bag (people sleep in these, and people have a tendency to have sex in things they sleep in, so if we have a naked girl running around something people have sex in we're validated in assuming its sexual)

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to squeeze two people into a single sleeping bag? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to have sex in one? Do you have any idea how uncomfortable it is to have sex on a rounded rock?

1.) Yes, I do know. It is possible (about the sleeping bag, not the rock thing). 2.) Just because Harry finds it near a rounded rock doesn't mean that's where it actually was in the real world.

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SEXUAL ACTIVITY

Also, let me add as Exhibit Fucking Z the fact that nearly the entire game involves issues of deviant sexuality, whereas none of it involves murder in anyway that could be considered significant or important.

But it does involve death to a heavy degree.

Also lolMalcolm.

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.....oh my God.

I am saying: I came to this conclusion about what happened in the forest stage of the videogame, Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. I came to this conclusion using CONTEXT CLUES in this videogame. I have laid out the clues that led me to it. You are welcome to consider said clues however you want, but there is logic and thought that is leading me down the theoretical path I'm heading. Furthermore, I have never claimed at any time, in any way, that said context clues create an over-arcing rule or law that somehow applies to all events, both real and fictional, in all situations.

My annoyance here is stemming from the fact that everyone is acting like I'm just making this shit up. My point is that I'm not, I'm making a deduction from clues I'm finding in the videogame.

Okay. Our annoyance stems from the fact that you're acting all haughty and acting like your interpretation is better than everyone else's and that our coming to different conclusions means we're missing simple clues like we're fucking retarded or unable to read what you're saying. Knock it off, it's getting real fucking annoying real fucking fast. I laid out my reasoning why I think what I did, and you dismissed it without any sort of actual refutation at all.

I've repeatedly I don't you to subscribe to mine, because I'm not pushing it as infallible truth. And I repeatedly said that I didn't see enough evidence to call murder--that's not a dismissal of your theory, that's a disagreement. I don't recall ever saying shit like this:

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Plus, I don't see how "rape = big ass bloody streak leading to a big ass pit that goes down and down and down and down with a sillohoute of Cheryl looking down it like she just saw Samara fall down the well"

about your theory.

I'm not acting like its a better conclusion than anyone else's, because I'm not trying to fucking compare it to anyone else's. I laid out my case and got shit about how I'm only seeing this because I want to, and retorts on how much girls bleed when they lose their virginity.

I'm not acting like anyone's fucking retarded, or incapable of understanding, or that this is a grand theory suitable only for my brain. I'm acting like people aren't actually reading the words I'm saying.

Again: I don't care if you agree or not, I don't think my theory somehow beats yours in a dick-swinging contest, and I'm not trying to force mine as truth. But at least listen to what I'm actually saying.

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Because I didn't. Ever. Anywhere.

lol lies.

....alright.

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Girl Now Running Around Naked (if a naked girl isn't a sexual symbol to you, I don't know what to say, but also consider she's now running around at the party where she was just comfortable)

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-I think this specific bloody sleeping bag, in this one video game, is an indication that something bad and sexual in nature occurred in this one level of this one specific video game

The echo message near the sleeping bag is accompanied by giggling. I don't know about you, but I don't think girls giggle when someone is forcibly penetrating their orifices with a penis.

....and I never claimed the echo message took place during the rape that I'm theorizing happened.

Which, again, brings me back to my main frustration here, which is not you having your own separate theory, or me wanting mine to be best in the whole world: its that you're arguing points I never made, brought up or used.

>But for the love of Christ, if you're going to come at me with an argument or contend with what I'm saying, at least fucking refer to actual things I'm saying.

Dude, calm the fuck down. I read your post. I responded to your post. I referred to the actual things you were saying AS I INTERPRETED THEM. That's how shit on a forum WORKS. What, do you think I pulled all those things I said out of my ass? No. I POSTED THEM BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID AND HOW I TOOK THEM.

Caps lock used for emphasis, not RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

Your tantrum kinda swept up all the credibility you garnered for yourself by your previous posts, which is a shame because you really do have interesting things to say when, y'know, you aren't posting novellas of BAWWWWWWWWWW.

1.) Yes, I do know. It is possible (about the sleeping bag, not the rock thing).2.) Just because Harry finds it near a rounded rock doesn't mean that's where it actually was in the real world.

Every other echo message and echo photo correlates to their real world locations. Why would Cheryl manifest a sleeping bag in a space where she doesn't remember it inhabiting? That's completely counter-intuitive to the narrative.

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I've repeatedly I don't you to subscribe to mine, because I'm not pushing it as infallible truth. And I repeatedly said that I didn't see enough evidence to call murder--that's not a dismissal of your theory, that's a disagreement.

You've still been acting extremely rude and pissant-ish. Cut it out.

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I'm not acting like its a better conclusion than anyone else's, because I'm not trying to fucking compare it to anyone else's. I laid out my case and got shit about how I'm only seeing this because I want to, and retorts on how much girls bleed when they lose their virginity.

I'm not acting like anyone's fucking retarded, or incapable of understanding, or that this is a grand theory suitable only for my brain. I'm acting like people aren't actually reading the words I'm saying.

Again: I don't care if you agree or not, I don't think my theory somehow beats yours in a dick-swinging contest, and I'm not trying to force mine as truth. But at least listen to what I'm actually saying.

No, you're only saying other people's theories are without basis or foundation or grounding. Totally different, you see.

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....and I never claimed the echo message took place during the rape that I'm theorizing happened.

Which, again, brings me back to my main frustration here, which is not you having your own separate theory, or me wanting mine to be best in the whole world: its that you're arguing points I never made, brought up or used.

You're using the sleeping bag as evidence towards the rape, by your own admission above. The sleeping bag's "lingering emotions" including girlish giggling and a girl taking drugs and flipping out. None of that equates to rape. Sorry, but at this point you are deliberately dismissing intended connections in order to put your theory together.

Wow, okay, I just read this whole thing. And surprisingly, there's only one thing I really feel the absolute need to comment on.

pj wrote:

how much girls bleed when they lose their virginity.

Girls barely bleed at all when they lose their virginity. We do just enough to get on the guy's penis and freak him out, but that's about it. Some girls don't bleed at all, though, and others are born without hymens. Just gonna, uh, put that out there. If you're basing your argument on the fact that there was a huge trail of blood there, and that it must be from a broken hymen, I wonder when it is that Cheryl became a 70-foot tall giant to produce that much blood in her uterus.

_________________"Remember how people look in "The Ring" after Samara gets 'em? SH2 does something similar, only you get fat, sweaty and belligerent." - pianotheme @ livejournal

If you're basing your argument on the fact that there was a huge trail of blood there, and that it must be from a broken hymen, I wonder when it is that Cheryl became a 70-foot tall giant to produce that much blood in her uterus.

Are there not two different instances of blood out in the woods area? One is a large streak and one is several drops that increase to large pools when you approach them. That's the one with a sleeping bag and jacket on a rock, and seems to be clearly identified with Cheryl. I got a different echo on my current playthrough where approaching the sleeping bag gives you a text message which reads, "I told them not to go too far, but they wanted to mess around with the new girl. No one was supposed to get hurt." Goes on to say the writer is going to burn the trash to cover their tracks and it includes a picture of Cheryl- and she appears to be screaming.

Since you can see trees behind her she cannot be lying down. That and the amount of blood makes me doubt rape, but it makes me consider that something happened to her more likely than she just saw something.