the primary definition says that homonyms are the same in sound and spelling, which the two words in question are not.

That is, in fact, not the primary definition at the link Yarko provided. No, really. I know you must have enormous faith in your reading comprehension abilities, but you made the same mistake Yarko made, apparently.

rm wrote:

homophones only sound the same, homnyms both sound and are spelled the same. therefore donut was wrong and yarko right and xebra wrong and usagi both right and wrong. or something.

Nope, try again! I don't want to sound insulting, but honestly, just read the page. It's all there. I know it's more fun to argue than learn, but this is getting ridiculous.

What god has cloven toegether let no man cleave apart._________________Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. -- Frederick Douglass

So the best conclusion, if both are true, is that the proper use of "homonym" is as a subcategory of "homophone" with the same spelling.

Definitions are not simultaneous. Anyway, if you were curious about the proper usage of the words, you could have read the rather lengthy discussion halfway down the page, which, miraculously, agrees with me.

Recap and Summary of Findings

The primary definition of homonym is the primary definition of homophone; that is, both words are most commonly understood to mean words of like pronunciation but different meaning regardless of spelling.

"Homonyms are, in the strictest sense, both homophones and homographs, alike in spelling and pronunciation, as the two forms bear. Homonym, however, is used more frequently than homophone, a technical term, when referring to words with the same pronunciation without regard to spelling. Homonym is also used as a synonym of homograph. Thus, it has taken on a broader scope than either of the other two terms and is often the term of choice in a nontechnical context."

That is, while homophone and homograph are examples of those technical terms Yarko likes to be so anal about, homonym is not, as it has become the term of choice for either or both of the two meanings. In this way does language evolve and life go on.

And with that, I bid you farewell. It has not taken me long to remember why I dislike public forums and most other people in general. Later, gators. Something tells me we won't miss each other.

the primary definition says that homonyms are the same in sound and spelling, which the two words in question are not.

That is, in fact, not the primary definition at the link Yarko provided. No, really. I know you must have enormous faith in your reading comprehension abilities, but you made the same mistake Yarko made, apparently.

yes it is. the linked #1 word "homophone" is not a definition. #2 says, and I quote, "a word the same as another in sound and spelling but different in meaning, as chase “to pursue” and chase “to ornament metal.”

xebra wrote:

rm wrote:

homophones only sound the same, homnyms both sound and are spelled the same.

Nope, try again! I don't want to sound insulting, but honestly, just read the page. It's all there. I know it's more fun to argue than learn, but this is getting ridiculous.

I didn't need to read the page because I actually know what a homophone is, and what a homonym, is. but, just so you get it, here's the definitions provided by wiki:

Quote:

homonym: A homonym is a word that has the same pronunciation and spelling as another word, but a different meaning.

homophone: A homophone is a word which is pronounced the same as another word but differs in meaning.

see? just what I said before. now you may shut the fuck up forever, thank you._________________...

you know, this has absolutely no relevance to anything whatsoever, but MF, i love your location that you provide

It has often perplexed me as Dune is one of the most anti-religious (not just organized religion) series I've ever read._________________Scire aliquid laus est, pudor est non discere velle
"It is laudable to know something, it is disgraceful to not want to learn"
~Seneca

after re-reading all the above nonsense about homonyms and phones and such and then doing some further reading elsewhere, I have come to the conclusion that it is all a bunch of hooey. the precise and most commonly used meanings of those words are as I have given them, and all other meanings and cross-meanings are debatable... as proven in this thread. the point is, they are in no way fixed, nor has, as xebra suggested, the english language adopted one or the other of these variously ambiguous meanings as the rule. indeed, most references disclaim confusion in practice, though authoritative texts give the meanings as stated before: nyms must sound and be spelled the same, phones must sound the same. therefore I stand by everything I have said to this point._________________...