Having been a lurker (due to a slow dial-up connection at the time), I can attest to the damage penguin afflicted on the Americas section. I n fact I left in disgust myself, until I got high speed and found this site. The .net site is a waste and retains all of the penguin garbage. My experience here and on other forums is that there is a very small interest in mesoamerican history and archeo. Nevertheless:

Lakota Warrior
Societies

Among the Lakota there existed several Warrior
Societies. From some of these, prominent men were chosen to serve in the
aAki'cita, a tribal police force, or guard unit, if you will. They also were
responsible for the order of the annual Buffalo hunt.The main function of
these societies was for the training and development of fighting skills and the
warrior ethos. Moral character was also cultivated and
taught.

Kangi'yuha, Crow owners society- Were a prominent group who was
eligible for service in the Aki'cita. Members were proven warriors who emulated
the crow, in that they strove to be first in striking in battle, as the crow was
first to fall upon dead warriors on the field. With arrows that flew straight,
as the crow and with a stuffed crow worn around the neck in battle. They also
were chosen to search out winter camps.

Toka'la, Kit Fox Society- another
prominent Aki'cita society, wore a fox skin around the shoulders, head hanging
in front and tail down the back. Warriors were expected to pledge bravery,
generosity and honor, in all affairs. They were renowned for concern and good
acts within the tribe in peacetime and in war. They were noted as volunteers for
whatever the tribe needed done.

Cante'tinza, Strong Heart Society-Members
pledged self-control in ther thoughts and actions. Emotional stability as well,
and to care for the poor and needy. Often seen wearing a feather headress with
buffalo horns on the sides. Another Aki'cita eligible society.

Ino'ka,
Badger Society-Also Aki'cita eligible, the order was founded by a man who
dreamed a badger, and pledged to take on th aspect of the fearless badger. So,
the society was renowned for extreme ferocity in battle, and fought fearlessly
despite the number of the enemy. They displayed crooked lances wrapped in wolf
skin and otter fur on the wrists and around the neck. It is said they embedded
mirrors in the otter fur to reflect the sun and blind the enemy in battle.

Wi'ciska, White Marked Society-They wore feathered headdresses, trailing
to the ground and the members were hardened veterans. They collected white,
black tipped eagle feathers, as honors in battle.

Sotka'yuha, Bare Lance
Owners Society-Often comprised of younger warriors, the bare lance was symbolic
of a warrior waiting to collect war honors in battle.

Miwa'tani, Mandan
Society-Also called the owl headdress society. Admission was difficult in that
each member pledged to sacrifice his life, if need be, to save a wounded
comrade. They wore a long sash which they would stake into the ground, pinning
themselves so they could not retreat in a desperate battle. They would fight to
the death and not submit. They could only move from the spot if a fellow Mandan
member released them.

Sunk'ska akan'yanka, White Hose Riders
Society-These were battle veterans who made markings on their white horses to
display their valorous acts to enemies. They also fed the families of
incapacitated warriors.

Oma'ha. Grass Dance Society-the traditions
originated with the Omaha tribe. They danced ceremoniously, the Grass dance, for
healing, and the Horse and Kettle dances.

It was not uncommon for
warriors to belong to more than one society as he progressed in life, but was
only a member of one society at a time.

Being a highly militarized state, warrior societies
played an important part in the social structure, as a way of achieving status
and improving ones place in the social order. All male children, beginning at
age 15, were given organized military training. Commoners received their
training at the Telpochcalli school. Youths who did well there were taken on
campaigns by veterans as shield bearers and other tasks. At the age of 20,
successful young warriors were taken into the ranks of the infantry as warriors
and were sponsored by older veterans. Young Nobles received more advanced
training at the Calmecac school. They began their training from the ages 6-13.
They were also trained in intellectual pursuits and Priests also trained there.
The sons of Kings entered at the age of 5.Like commoners, training ended at
age 20. They had the advantages of better equipment and weapons as well as
continued cultivation from Elite veterans. For a commoner to advance in rank
and status, he was required to perform acts of valor and capture prisoners for
sacrifice. Enough of these and he could be allowed into one of the warrior
societies. A commoner who captured enough foes and exhibited the valor to be
admitted were called, Cuaupipiltin. 'roots remembered'. Now nobles, they were
ranked below Nobles by birth. This was a relatively uncommon occurrence however,
as the training and weaponry of the Nobility were far better and ensured better
results in battle.

Admission for commoners to the order of the Eagle or
Jaguar, the two largest of the orders, required the taking of 4 or 5 captives,
depending on the status of the captive. Nobles could be admitted as soon as
training in the Calmecac was finished.Warriors of the eagle society wore a
feathered helmet with an open eagle beak. The Jaguars wore a full suit made of
jaguar skins, and their faces protruded from the open Jaguar mouth. Members of
these orders were exempt from taxation and paying tribute. They attended War
Councils, were allowed concubines and participated in cannibalistic feasting.
The Otontin were an Elite order that required the taking of 5 or 6 captives
to gain admission. This was a fierce group that was battle hardened and was
often used as shock troops.The highest order of all were the Cuahchicqueh,
'the shorn ones'. They presented shaved heads with only a short braid wrapped in
red ribbon that hung above the left ear. They painted half of their head blue
and the other red or yellow. They were the elite of the warrior castes and
pledged to never retreat in battle until victory or death. It was from this
society that the highest ranking commanders were chosen. To gain admittance to
the order one had to take many captives and perform more than twenty acts of
valor. These were the Elite of Aztec society.

Many cities of the Yucatan Maya, and other sacred
sites, were connected with a network of raised stone roads. Remnants of these
Sacbeob or 'white ways' can be seen today at the Maya cities of Chichen Itza,
Coba, Uxmal and others. Some of them have been incorporated into modern
roadways, but most of them have been covered with jungle and are hidden from
view. The roads were mostly built with limestone blocks and rubble fill, coated
with a white limestone stucco. They generally are elevated from 1 to 1.5 meters
and were leveled, which must have taken intense effort and seems to highlight
the symbolic aspect of them. Used heavily for commerce and travel, the roads
were also very sacred to the Maya. Spanish chroniclers left records of these
roads, Diego Lopez Cogolludo recorded in 1688, "There are remains of paved
highways which transverse all this kingdom and they say they ended on the east
on the seashore...so that they may arrive at Cozumel for the fulfillment of
their vows, to offer their sacrifice, to ask for help in their needs, and for
the mistaken adoration of their false Gods".Considering that the Maya had no
beasts of burden or even used wheeled carts, the spiritual importance of these
labor-intensive and carefully built roads, is easily highlighted. At the ends of
some roads, such as at Labna and at Kabah, large arches were built with
religious iconography. Having walked one of the sacbe at Coba, which runs 62
miles to the city of Yaxuna, I can assert the amazing aspect of these ancient
highways.

Having been a lurker (due to a slow dial-up connection at the time), I can attest to the damage penguin afflicted on the Americas section. I n fact I left in disgust myself, until I got high speed and found this site. The .net site is a waste and retains all of the penguin garbage.

I studied Mesoamerican archaeology along with pre-roman Britain as my two main subject areas. After a while I stopped bothering to post on the topic as every time someone tried to say something sensible Pinguin either spammed them out immediatly posting two full pages of pictures or deliberately made a post attacking them for saying something completely different to what they said. He was a racist moron, a nd had no concept of theory or putting argument forward to add information, if someone said, there is a theory, he would reply to them as if they were a devout believer word for word of what they said, only a fundementalist nutjob can do that. A lot of racist morons join forums and get banned in days, with him the mods let him go on for months seeing nothing wrong with him. I tend to blame the mods not him.

Having been a lurker (due to a slow dial-up connection at the time), I can attest to the damage penguin afflicted on the Americas section. I n fact I left in disgust myself, until I got high speed and found this site. The .net site is a waste and retains all of the penguin garbage.

I studied Mesoamerican archaeology along with pre-roman Britain as my two main subject areas. After a while I stopped bothering to post on the topic as every time someone tried to say something sensible Pinguin either spammed them out immediatly posting two full pages of pictures or deliberately made a post attacking them for saying something completely different to what they said. He was a racist moron, a nd had no concept of theory or putting argument forward to add information, if someone said, there is a theory, he would reply to them as if they were a devout believer word for word of what they said, only a fundementalist nutjob can do that. A lot of racist morons join forums and get banned in days, with him the mods let him go on for months seeing nothing wrong with him. I tend to blame the mods not him.

I warned everyone when he first showed up. I had done a quick google on and found he'd been banned for racism on 2-3 other forums. There seemed to be an attitude of support for him from certain mods from the start.

There were certain mods who actually encouraged him, and protected him when the fecies hit the fan. As he began to realize this, he became outrageous. He even suckered in somone of reasonable intelligence, Edgewaters. He became as much of an a*****e as Pinguin. And I might mention, was made a mod after I left.

I blame both Omar and the Staff, beginning with Seko. He was as much of a supporter of Pinguin as anyone else.

Controversey and opposing points of view is what a forum like this is about. To sort out and discuss. When you have someone like Pinguin, their refusal to even consider an alternative opinion and resorts to ad hom attacks and other devices, it stifles a free exchange of ideas.

People also get damn tired of seeing "It's a Hoax" and quickly lose interest. While I was still a mod, I know of at least 8 good posting members who were lost because of his garbage. Sander was one of them.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.

We didn't have much of a problem amongst the moderator team where Pinguin was concerned. We were pretty much unanimous in our view that he had to go.

The problem we were confronted with was when a handful of newbies joined the forum and immediately set about attacking every thread he posted in. We received several complaints from long standing members in regards to the bully-boy tactics being employed by these outsiders/newbies.

I was of the opinion that it was these attacks that resulted in Pinguin's growing popularity amongst the membership of Historum.

For obvious reasons, the moderators couldn't be seen to be backing down to a lynch mob. Otherwise it would have led to other members employing the same tacticts at a future time when a member they didn't approve of ? joined the board.

Hence, our decision to deal with the lynch mob first and then deal with Pinguin.

We contained/isolated Pinguin to the time out room or St. Helena as it came to be known and over the course of time, his popularity started to fade.

In short, rather than stringing him up. We gave him enough rope to hang himself.

Imo. the mods at Historum dealt withe the situation very intelligently and with as few casuaties as possible.

Actually I was refering to another forum he infected. But your insight into the past of this forum is appreciated.

That may be true, but the behavior you described is identical to what he displayed here. Insight? It wasn't insight, it is experience.

Pinguin was the cause and catalyst for me resigning from All Empires in Nov. 2009. Lets be real clear about that. He wasn't the instigator but he was used by a certain group of Mods. So we will just let that part of the story go by. Not appropriate now.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.

We didn't have much of a problem amongst the moderator team where Pinguin was concerned. We were pretty much unanimous in our view that he had to go.

The problem we were confronted with was when a handful of newbies joined the forum and immediately set about attacking every thread he posted in. We received several complaints from long standing members in regards to the bully-boy tactics being employed by these outsiders/newbies.

I was of the opinion that it was these attacks that resulted in Pinguin's growing popularity amongst the membership of Historum.

For obvious reasons, the moderators couldn't be seen to be backing down to a lynch mob. Otherwise it would have led to other members employing the same tacticts at a future time when a member they didn't approve of ? joined the board.

Hence, our decision to deal with the lynch mob first and then deal with Pinguin.

We contained/isolated Pinguin to the time out room or St. Helena as it came to be known and over the course of time, his popularity started to fade.

In short, rather than stringing him up. We gave him enough rope to hang himself.

Imo. the mods at Historum dealt withe the situation very intelligently and with as few casuaties as possible.

Of course. I am somewhat biased here...

I believe the time frame you speak of was when Pinguin was suspended from .net. It was supposed to be a year, but the staff renigged and let him back after 4 mons. During this time he showed up her as "Pachuatooey" or whatever. I knew immediately who it was. We even let him post for awhile, until the same strange effect started. People started to support his BS. I even got nasty PMs when I banned him after 2 weeks.

But going back to the original subject, Paddy, Pinguin joined AE about the same time I did. So he was an established member at the time. That made it difficult to control him under any circumstance. However it became clear eventually that Seko and his "Aussie Hit Squad" didn't want to control him.

You folks did an excellent job of dealing with him, however you didn't have the resistance I dealt with.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.

You figured out that Pinguin and Pachooatooy, or whatever ? were the one and same..No way man, gimme a break !

Seriously, we had been watching what was happening here and had some idea of what to expect.

Having said that, he was still a difficult customer to deal with.

Well, it wasn't a hard one to figure. I think it was about 2 hours after he joined I got a bunch of PMs all cheerfully announcing his arrival. Knowing fully who he was, I still pmd him. Basically stated if he behaved himself he could stay. Cyrus and I have this unofficial "amnesty" policy. We will let someone like that in, but it's up to them to show us they have earned the right to stay. With Parachute or whatever his alter was, Omar only took about 2 days to show me he had no intentions of behaving. But his behavior wasn't noticeable immediately to others. So it took a couple of weeks, more than fair, for his true self to come out. I actually like some things about the deluded little maroon. To be fair, there are some things he's very knowledgeable about. It's the spells he has where he uses the old "if you can't dazzle them with Brilliance, Baffle them with Bulls**t" routine that always starts trouble. That, plus his racist crap and his blatant hatred for anything "Nord Americano" [his spelling] would be enough for most forums to give him the boot.

But he seems incapable of understanding that if he could abide by the basic rules of debate, the first being mutual respect, we would have allowed him to stay.

Edited by red clay - 27-May-2011 at 19:15

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.

Well, it wasn't a hard one to figure. I think it was about 2 hours after he joined I got a bunch of PMs all cheerfully announcing his arrival. Knowing fully who he was, I still pmd him. Basically stated if he behaved himself he could stay. Cyrus and I have this unofficial "amnesty" policy. We will let someone like that in, but it's up to them to show us they have earned the right to stay. With Parachute or whatever his alter was, Omar only took about 2 days to show me he had no intentions of behaving. But his behavior wasn't noticeable immediately to others. So it took a couple of weeks, more than fair, for his true self to come out. I actually like some things about the deluded little maroon. To be fair, there are some things he's very knowledgable about. It's the spells he has where he uses the old "if you can't dazzle them with Brillance, Baffle them with Bulls**t" routine that always starts trouble. That, plus his racist crap and his blatant hatred for anything "Nord Americano" [his spelling] would be enough for most forums to give him the boot.

But he seems incapable of understanding that if he abided by the basic rules of debate, the first being mutual respect, we would have allowed him to stay.

I know, I know.

Round about 2006? I joined a forum which eventually merged with AE. I can't remember the name of the forum, but you were the moderator. There was a guy called Stuart (I think? he was a Glaswegian) who kept posting current affairs articles ? To fill space on the board, which is why I left and went to Historum.

Anyways, I found you to be an exceptionally fair moderator (no BS here) so there is no need to explain yourself to me. I was merely trying to explain why the mods at Historum took so long to ban the Pinguin.

I don't want to mention any names here, but at the time we were trying to deal with Pinguin, we were also trying to deal with an other member who was causing the board even more problems than Pingy. This other member was the best BS'er I have ever met and had the membership completely suckered. So, we were trying to deal with two big problems, back to back...

At the time, the admin and mods also took the view that every member was a cherished asset to the forum and we were very reluctant to ban anyone. Banning Pinguin may have lost us some valued members. Not banning Pinguin may have lost us some valued members. In other words, we were walking on eggshells..

Sometimes the members aren't aware of all that is going on behind the scenes and assume that the mods are completely incompetent or whatever. So basically, what I'm saying here is that banning Pinguin wasn't as simple and straighforward as some may think.

I would just add here, that if you're mod team were devided over the Pinguin fiasco, then you're problems would have been even greater than ours. Just want you to know that I understand that.

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