Evidence of God in physics , MIND BOGGLING

Originally posted by subject x
That guy doesn't understand percentages.
Just because the odds are astronomically against something, doesn't mean it can't happen.
One chance in a "billion billion billion billion" is still a chance, and can happen.

An example, on a much smaller scale:
What would be the odds, on a 100-sided die, of rolling 3 1s in a row?
I don't know, but I've done it.

One chance, out of who-cares-how-may, is all you need for something to happen.

Lets say that in the beginning there was just absolutely emptiness. One infinite dimension of absolute emptiness. What are the odds of this constant
dimension forming anything by chance?

Since this dimension did form something the odds are 1. You cant say 1 on a trillion trillion trillion because that means the infinite empty space is
not empty.

But what people should concentrate on is how can a infinite dimension of emptiness for something all by it self?
Because there is nothing there to form anything except the absolute empty space.

Wouldn't this space need some kind of ability to form something by it self?

So much intelligent design, i question there was a big bang , followed by a sequence of accidents, then hey presto.

here we are.

Yeah, that just sounds crazy.
Now give me a lonely, invisible, magic man in the sky and that is something I can get my mind around.

I see what you did there..... -.o

Seriously though, I don't think "God" is supposed to be a lonely, invisible, magic man in the sky. I think this is a misconception. Metaphors and
symbolism is heavy in many religions and religious texts/drawings, thus creating the misconceptions we see today.

I believe that there is knowledge in which humanity may not yet possess and would take a long time before we can uncover it. So happy hunting! =)

His argument has several flaws because his logic is built on misconceptions.

I think the first problem here is that he we need to take into account the possibility of an finite time and infinite Universes. Lets just assume for
a minute time had no beginning and there are or have been other Universes besides this one. If that were true, it immediately invalidates his
fundamental point about the staggering odds. Who knows how many other Universes didn't have the correct forces to create life. Perhaps this Universe
is that staggering rarity in manifestation and we simply can't comprehend that process.

And the second thing is that not all forces need to be exactly the strength they are in order for life to exist. Gravity could be a bit weaker and
you'd get wider orbits and larger solar systems. You could have a larger planet with the same amount of gravity as Earth. Life could still exist under
those circumstances. You could also mix the entire thing up, throw in new forces, new dimensions, what ever... there's no reason to assume life
couldn't exist in other systems which have totally different rules to this Universe.

Life adapts to the conditions it gets given, that's how evolution and adaptation works.

Ah yes, the old God can be anything I personally want to define it as and I can still say I believe in God with a capital G. Apparently many people
forgot that God is a proper noun and has a defined origin. If you want to ponder gods that may or may not be anything at all, that is quite different.
But I still do not see how there is any room for a god without an invisible magician.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
It is so inconceivable to the stupid human mind, that we are nothing but a freak accident and our existence means nothing in the bigger scheme of
things, so we create mythology such as religion to explain our existence and why we worthless beings are exceptional. It's funny if you really think
about it.

To me it's exactly the opposite..."it is so inconceivable to the stupid human mind" that there is Perfection in everything...from a strand of DNA
to an "imperfect" human being...a splendid paradox! I do not feel "exceptional," just blessed!

Lets say that in the beginning there was just absolutely emptiness. One infinite dimension of absolute emptiness. What are the odds of this constant
dimension forming anything by chance?

Since this dimension did form something the odds are 1. You cant say 1 on a trillion trillion trillion because that means the infinite empty space is
not empty.

But what people should concentrate on is how can a infinite dimension of emptiness for something all by it self?
Because there is nothing there to form anything except the absolute empty space.

Wouldn't this space need some kind of ability to form something by it self?

You can ponder imponderables all day long if you like, I'd rather not waste my time on a fruitless exercise.
I certainly can't say I know the answers. More importantly, I'm not sure there's a point in asking the questions.
The universe exists. We exist. Knowing how it started isn't going to change that, any more than not knowing.

The bonehead in the video is the one who brought up odds. He's the guy who said "one in a billion billion billion".
I just pointed out that long odds do not mean "impossible without a creator".

Isn't it funny that some people have no problem with the fact that ANYTHING exists. I mean even a molecule, and yet God can not. Think about it
nothing SHOULD exist at all....There should never have been a mass that was the "The Big Bang" to begin with...So to completely deny yourself of the
fact God can exist is just beyond me.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
How about you give us a summary of the video, due to the fact that I can't watch videos on this computer (software issues) and some of us are at
work?

He just goes on about universal forces (gravity and what not), and the odds of them being "set", as he says, to support intelligent life. He claims
that it's just too much of a coincidence to be random, thus proving the existence of intelligent design.

edit on 19-9-2012 by subject x
because:

I'll Argue if everything were slightly off we wouldn't exist to ask the question. So it ( the fact we exist) proves nothing;except the dogs
lined up perfectly at least once..

The next roll of the "cosmic dice" might not be so lucky and not proceed to development of inteligent self-aware questioning life.

Originally posted by kurthall
Isn't it funny that some people have no problem with the fact that ANYTHING exists. I mean even a molecule, and yet God can not. Think about it
nothing SHOULD exist at all....There should never have been a mass that was the "The Big Bang" to begin with...So to completely deny yourself of the
fact God can exist is just beyond me.

It all comes down to your chosen basic assumption:
1) "God":Is was and always will be.
or 2) the "universe and lts laws and mysteries" Is,Was and always will be and we just happened to show up.
#2 is Not real warm and fuzzy but just as valid.

I prefer to think a big demanding"guy" on a fancy throne and all my dead relatives are NOT looking"down" watching my every moment and judging me:
Doesn't rule out God; Just helps me maintain my sanity.

Originally posted by kurthall
Isn't it funny that some people have no problem with the fact that ANYTHING exists. I mean even a molecule, and yet God can not. Think about it
nothing SHOULD exist at all....There should never have been a mass that was the "The Big Bang" to begin with...So to completely deny yourself of the
fact God can exist is just beyond me.

Itall comesdown to yourchosen basic assumption:
1) "God":Is was and always will be.
or 2) the "universe and lts laws and mysteries" Is,Was and always will be and we just happened to show up.
#2 is Not real warm and fuzzy but just as valid.

is it possible for something to understand,direct, organize, create, and control " the universe and its laws and mysteries"?

that is the first problem,,,, i am asking something that does not even know what it is,, where it is, when it is, how it is,,,, if there can be such a
thing as a God,, and then asking them what rules and guidelines this God must obey and follow in order to be considered, by our contrived definition,
a God...

Originally posted by kurthall
Isn't it funny that some people have no problem with the fact that ANYTHING exists. I mean even a molecule, and yet God can not. Think about it
nothing SHOULD exist at all....There should never have been a mass that was the "The Big Bang" to begin with...So to completely deny yourself of the
fact God can exist is just beyond me.

Itall comesdown to yourchosen basic assumption:
1) "God":Is was and always will be.
or 2) the "universe and lts laws and mysteries" Is,Was and always will be and we just happened to show up.
#2 is Not real warm and fuzzy but just as valid.

is it possible for something to understand,direct, organize, create, and control " the universe and its laws and mysteries"?

Why not?

Just as THE DREADED "EVOLUTION"could be "GODS MECHANISM" for introducing change to the ecosystem!. Science and "GOD" DON'T HAVE to be mutually exclusive!
But; strictly speaking: one is NOT proof of the other!.
Nature could be an indepedant mechanical machine and run with or without divine manipulation through its own feedback loops;checks and balances..

ok,,, so wouldnt the existence,, in the past or eventual, of a God, be a natural occurrence,., especially if something like intelligence can exist,,,
especially if abstract concepts such as morals, individuality, will, potential exists.,,.,.

in inifinity is the best of the best and worst of the worst..,,. the highs and lows, bigs and smalls.,,. with all the time existence has existed,.,.,
whats to say that some form of intelligence has not established righteous reign over a section, or part, of a creation,,, as an experiment,, or as a
reality,,,

as our mind is the god of our bodies,.,. as our president/government/kings of past are/were the gods of our lawful and orderly constructed systems.,,
why would there not be underlying code and law,, a God, or guide of reality.,,..,

if there is no god or creator of the universe,.,. can we try to brainstorm and think what the universe might actually be? can we think about if
anything can ever mean anything,, if value exists,., if intent is meaningful or real,,. etc.?

"Nature could be an indepedant mechanical machine and run with or without divine manipulation through its own feedback loops;checks and
balances.."

ok,, so nature is an intelligent technological god,.,. a chemist, a physisct, a biologist, a geologist etc...

no divine manipulation.,,.,. but a massive amount of energy ( which we are made of and part of) split itself automatically into a mechanical machine,
recycling itself,, obeying logical physical laws from the unimaginably smallest to the unimaginably largest scales,, creating all we know of it so far
and can imagine,, creating all we are and can be,, all we can think and feel and do,,, and it did this without thinking, or trying, or knowing, or
seeing,, or caring,,, it is most genius, most smart, most epic, most awesome, most everything,, and it is an "unimpressive series of accidents"...

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