Hey jacks1071, just last week I used Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease http://www.belray.com/where-would-we-be-without-waterproof-grease on a friends cone and ball Alex hubs. Amazingly his hubs went from grinding to completely smooth. I was completely surprised by the transformation and I thought that this grease was noticeably better than Dura Ace grease that I have

I am thinking of using this grease in the future, what do you think of this grease

KL. wrote:Hey jacks1071, just last week I used Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease http://www.belray.com/where-would-we-be-without-waterproof-grease on a friends cone and ball Alex hubs. Amazingly his hubs went from grinding to completely smooth. I was completely surprised by the transformation and I thought that this grease was noticeably better than Dura Ace grease that I have

I am thinking of using this grease in the future, what do you think of this grease

Never used it sorry but have used Belray products on my motorbike and they up there with the best, I'm sure their grease would be no exemption.

I did re-grease a freehub tonight using Shimano grease, the freehub is MUCH quieter if you use the Rock N Roll Red Devil. If you want a well lubricated but not so quiet freehub then use the Shimano stuff, if you want it to be quiet as well as well lubed then Rock N Roll Red Devil is what I've tested and recommend.

KL. wrote:Hey jacks1071, just last week I used Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease http://www.belray.com/where-would-we-be-without-waterproof-grease on a friends cone and ball Alex hubs. Amazingly his hubs went from grinding to completely smooth. I was completely surprised by the transformation and I thought that this grease was noticeably better than Dura Ace grease that I have

I am thinking of using this grease in the future, what do you think of this grease

Never used it sorry but have used Belray products on my motorbike and they up there with the best, I'm sure their grease would be no exemption.

I did re-grease a freehub tonight using Shimano grease, the freehub is MUCH quieter if you use the Rock N Roll Red Devil. If you want a well lubricated but not so quiet freehub then use the Shimano stuff, if you want it to be quiet as well as well lubed then Rock N Roll Red Devil is what I've tested and recommend.

I've regreased the hub twice now with red devil as recommended by Deon. It's silent when done to the point that I can't use the freewheel clicking to alert pedestrians on a psp of my presence as I used to

It's a good grease, and I'd recommend it.

Quick question Deon, when putting everything back together, how tight do you do up the alloy thingies that go on last? I think I did them too loose the first time and after a while (about 2,000km) they came loose (in combination with me not tightening the qr correctly ).

Ozkaban wrote:I've regreased the hub twice now with red devil as recommended by Deon. It's silent when done to the point that I can't use the freewheel clicking to alert pedestrians on a psp of my presence as I used to

It's a good grease, and I'd recommend it.

Quick question Deon, when putting everything back together, how tight do you do up the alloy thingies that go on last? I think I did them too loose the first time and after a while (about 2,000km) they came loose (in combination with me not tightening the qr correctly ).

We call the alloy end pieces that go on last "cones" - do them up firm, then nip them up pretty tight. Probably about 8Nm if you want to put a torque wrench on them. You can locktite them if you have trouble with them comming loose but I have never had to do this.

If they are loose, you'll have trouble with the wheel slipping in the drop-out.

KL - if you want to send me a packet of the Belray grease I'll give it a go so we can compare it to Shimano and Red Devil. So far, Red Devil is the quiest.

The video you referenced looked pretty good. I like the bit of pipe he used to set the bearings. I didn't like the hammer directly onto the axle - use a rubber mallet or a block of timber between the axle and the hammer when you are hitting it out if you don't have a rubber hammer. Don't use a ball pein hammer straight onto the axle!. The guy in the video overall did a very good job, he was just a little faster and a tiny bit rougher than I'd be but he got the job done.

jacks1071 wrote:We call the alloy end pieces that go on last "cones" - do them up firm, then nip them up pretty tight. Probably about 8Nm if you want to put a torque wrench on them. You can locktite them if you have trouble with them comming loose but I have never had to do this.

I didn't do this

jacks1071 wrote:If they are loose, you'll have trouble with the wheel slipping in the drop-out.

It did do this

Second time I nipped them up firmly. I will go and check again though.

jacks1071 wrote:KL - if you want to send me a packet of the Belray grease I'll give it a go so we can compare it to Shimano and Red Devil. So far, Red Devil is the quiest.

The video you referenced looked pretty good. I like the bit of pipe he used to set the bearings. I didn't like the hammer directly onto the axle - use a rubber mallet or a block of timber between the axle and the hammer when you are hitting it out if you don't have a rubber hammer. Don't use a ball pein hammer straight onto the axle!. The guy in the video overall did a very good job, he was just a little faster and a tiny bit rougher than I'd be but he got the job done.

I will make a video next time I need to do bearings on my own set.

Hey jacks1071, the Belray grease was my friends so I don't have any but where you get your motorbike serviced they will likely have some. It's only $10 to $15 for a large tub. I was quite impressed with it and how it made the dura ace grease seem/feel a little ordinary, so I plan to get a tub ...

Thanks for looking at the video and excellent that you will make a video next time you do your Bracciano bearings

PS: Hey jacks1071, when I get some Belray waterproof grease, and you still don't have any, I will definitely send you some for comparsion

jacks1071 wrote:KL - if you want to send me a packet of the Belray grease I'll give it a go so we can compare it to Shimano and Red Devil. So far, Red Devil is the quiest.

PS: Hey jacks1071, when I get some Belray waterproof grease, and you still don't have any, I will definitely send you some for comparsion

Hey jacks1071, I finally got some Belray waterproof grease. Did you manage to get some from any Motorcycle shops in your area ...Here's a little more info about it ...

This aluminum complex grease is a high performance general use grease. This staple product of the Powersports line is widely considered as the best in the industry and can be found on workbenches around the world.In addition to the typical uses, you can spread a thin layer on the threads of bolts to ensure correct torque specs and even “paints” a thin layer on the flange of the associated nut. This allows for an accurate feeling when the nut is tight and doesn’t offer a false sense of security.

One way of extending longevity is by doing the proper initial set-up. While you may want to ride that new machine as soon as you roll it off the showroom floor, it would be better for the long term health of your vehicle to spend the first weekend in the garage doing some pre-ride maintenance. The 100% salt waterproof properties of this grease and the high temperature stability mean this grease will not wash away or melt off.

Last edited by KL. on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey Rex, since I've serviced my rear hub, as per jacks1071 instructions and the video, the wheel is now running beautifully and the freehub is running quite quietly. I have done about 300kms since then and I am feeling quite happy with everything

I am not completely happy with the Dura Ace grease, although the hub/wheel is performing excellently and quietly, so I will soon service the freehub, ratchet and pawls with the Belray grease and let you all know what I think of it

If jacks1071 would still like me to send him some Belray Waterproof grease to compare to the Rock N Roll Red Devil grease then I will gladly do that also It's only $13.95 for a 16oz (500ml) tub from a motorcycle shop. I have also seen Nulon Extreme Performance Grease which also looks good. Both resist water washout, bearing contamination, and improve seal function

All Good and the rear wheel is like new again. The front wheel has always been perfect and spins for ages

Deon, is there any rolling difference between Bolzano hubs and Ezo? Any real benefits of the Bolzano's over the Ezo?Just thinking ahead at my next wheelset.

Pro-Lite use Japanese EZO bearings in all their hubs which use sealed bearings.

Bracciano & Bolzano (aka Gavia) hubs use the same bearing brand.

Is there an advantage of the Bracciano hubs vs the Bolzano (aka Gavia) Hubs - this is difficult to quantity. I like the Bolzano hubs on wheels like the Gavia P2V Volante, this is a 22mm deep rim. The wide flanges on the Bolzano hub help to make the shallow rim into a very strong wheel. I have built the 22mm Gavia Volante rim into Bracciano hubs for testing and they flexed a lot - I wasn't happy with them and we didn't release them for sale. That same rim with the Bolzano hub is a lovely wheelset.

I havn't gone the other way and built a Bolzano hub onto say a 27mm alloy Bracciano rim - I doubt there would be much noticeable difference since the rim itself is very strong, it would be difficult to improve on the bracciano stiffness without adding spokes or going to heavier gauge spokes, neither of which are required.

The Bolzano hubs Pro-Lite will argue transfer power better than a standard hub, difficult to quantity although I'm sure there is no disadvantage to the design.

jacks1071 wrote:I haven't gone the other way and built a Bolzano hub onto say a 27mm alloy Bracciano rim - I doubt there would be much noticeable difference since the rim itself is very strong, it would be difficult to improve on the bracciano stiffness without adding spokes or going to heavier gauge spokes, neither of which are required.

The Bolzano hubs Pro-Lite will argue transfer power better than a standard hub, difficult to quantity although I'm sure there is no disadvantage to the design.

Whats more important is matching the right hub to the right rim.

Hi jacks1071, using the Bolzano hub with the Bracciano rim should definitely produce a laterally and radially stronger/stiffer wheel than the Bracciano wheel. This is due to better DS bracing angle resulting from the larger Bolzano DS (driveside) flange diameter. This should also produce a slightly better NDS (non driveside) spoke tension which will also help in producing a laterally and radially stronger/stiffer wheel.

If the Bolzano hub produced a stiffish wheel with the Gavia P2V Volante 22mm deep rim, then it will produce a much stiffer wheel with the Bracciano 27mm rim. The larger Bolzano DS/NDS flange diameter will also produce better NDS (non driveside) spoke tension. Better DS bracing angle and better NDS spoke tension will produce a wheel that is laterally and radially stronger/stiffer. The better NDS spoke tension will produce a wheel with better control of DS torque effects due to sprinting and climbing The above (and perhaps the hub is a little stiffer) is why they will transfer power better

The question is a wheel with Bolzano hub/Bracciano rim necessary ... - No for a weak 60kg/70kg sprinter or climber- probably Yes for a strong 60kg/70kg sprinter or climber- definitely Yes for a strong 80kg/90kg sprinter or climber- Yes for a weak 90kg/100kg sprinter or climber- Yes for touring (should it be used for touring)- and this wheel should be able to handle a heavier rider

I guess you mustn't be interested in trying the Belray grease ... no worries. I will let you know what I think of it. I will also get some RnR Red Devil grease to compare i will also try a 25mm rear tyre All good

KL. wrote:The question is a wheel with Bolzano hub/Bracciano rim necessary ... - No for a weak 60kg/70kg sprinter or climber- probably Yes for a strong 60kg/70kg sprinter or climber- definitely Yes for a strong 80kg/90kg sprinter or climber- Yes for a weak 90kg/100kg sprinter or climber- Yes for touring (should it be used for touring)- and this wheel should be able to handle a heavier rider

I guess you mustn't be interested in trying the Belray grease ... no worries. I will let you know what I think of it. I will also get some RnR Red Devil grease to compare i will also try a 25mm rear tyre All good

I don't recommend the Bolzano hub for riders much heavier than 80kg. They are heavily machined and I've seen a few failures with 90kg+ riders.

You don't need the Bolzano hub for a Bracciano, it'd make it heavier for no reason. The Bracciano is pleanty strong enough to handle up to a 100kg rider, past that weight you are better served by something like the Merano or Como which have heavier rims & spokes.

If you care to send me some grease I'd be pleased to try it and give you a comparison.

jacks1071 wrote:I don't recommend the Bolzano hub for riders much heavier than 80kg. They are heavily machined and I've seen a few failures with 90kg+ riders.

You don't need the Bolzano hub for a Bracciano, it'd make it heavier for no reason. The Bracciano is plenty strong enough to handle up to a 100kg rider, past that weight you are better served by something like the Merano or Como which have heavier rims & spokes.

If you care to send me some grease I'd be pleased to try it and give you a comparison.

No worries re the Belray grease Please PM where you would like the grease posted to and how many mils you think you will need ...

Where did the Bolzano hub fail? Was it around DS flange or flange spoke holes or ...

Tried out the Belray waterproof grease, its not the best stuff for the Bracciano freehub. The grease is too heavy and made the freehub pawls "sticky" - if you use it sparingly you might not have an issue with it but I like use the grease pretty liberally in that area.

The best stuff to use is still Rock N Roll Red Devil or Shimano Dura-Ace (green) grease. The Rock N Roll gives a much quieter freehub than the Shimano grease - both should offer the same protection. So, if you like it with a little more noise use Shimano, if you like it quiet which is my preference then Rock N Roll.

Hey jacks1071, excellent video, although you didn't show/mention details about the inner freehub/hub seal, but still excellent ... thanks

Shame the Belray waterproof grease didn't work so good in the Bracciano hub, but it worked really well in this old cone and ball hub

Hey jacks1071, do you know if the RnR Red Devil and RnR Super Web grease are similar ... thanks

The inner seal rarely comes out with the freehub so I didn't mention that, if it does come out it says on the freehub - as long as you don't pull it out and re-install backwards its all good.

I'll re-do the video sometime when I have a little more time and I'll cover that.

Sorry I don't know about the Super Web grease.

The Belray waterproof grease would be acceptable in headsets and cup and cone bearings like the Como for instance, better to use something lighter in the freehubs.

I use the Rock N Roll Red Devil in every bike we build, the only place I don't use it is the bottom bracket where I use copper anti-seize and the seat post where we generally use carbon assembly compound.

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