i find the visuddhimagga unreadable. it reads like it's half instruction manual and half commentary and can't decide which. and the wording is archaic and hard to follow, oddly enough i have no trouble reading the suttas themselves and find them quite readable and easily understood. i have gotten some good information but overall it leads mostly to frustration with it's writing style.

is there a modern equivalent? or even another ancient book that is written differently? i'm looking for something that condenses the contents and methods of the pali tipitaka into one cohesive book.

alan... wrote:i find the visuddhimagga unreadable. it reads like it's half instruction manual and half commentary and can't decide which. and the wording is archaic and hard to follow, oddly enough i have no trouble reading the suttas themselves and find them quite readable and easily understood. i have gotten some good information but overall it leads mostly to frustration with it's writing style.

It is a matter of patience, learning the to deal with the style of Ven Nanamoli's translation. On the other hand, if you cannot relate to it, don't worry about it.

is there a modern equivalent?

No.

or even another ancient book that is written differently?

The Vimuttimagga, but it is even older and is a translation from the Chinese and is not fully Theravadin.

i'm looking for something that condenses the contents and methods of the pali tipitaka into one cohesive book.

The works of Ven Ledi Sayadaw, but they are in a very traditional style, dealing with practice in a very traditional way. If you are interested Ven Pesala can make some useful suggestions.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

alan... wrote:i find the visuddhimagga unreadable. it reads like it's half instruction manual and half commentary and can't decide which. and the wording is archaic and hard to follow, oddly enough i have no trouble reading the suttas themselves and find them quite readable and easily understood. i have gotten some good information but overall it leads mostly to frustration with it's writing style.

It is a matter of patience, learning the to deal with the style of Ven Nanamoli's translation. On the other hand, if you cannot relate to it, don't worry about it.

is there a modern equivalent?

No.

or even another ancient book that is written differently?

The Vimuttimagga, but it is even older and is a translation from the Chinese and is not fully Theravadin.

i'm looking for something that condenses the contents and methods of the pali tipitaka into one cohesive book.

The works of Ven Ledi Sayadaw, but they are in a very traditional style, dealing with practice in a very traditional way. If you are interested Ven Pesala can make some useful suggestions.

The Visuddhimagga is, indeed, a mixed bag. Lots of collected experience of generations of practitioners, mixed with seemingly impenetrable sections. My advice is to just skip over bits that you don't find interesting.

alan... wrote:i find the visuddhimagga unreadable. it reads like it's half instruction manual and half commentary and can't decide which. and the wording is archaic and hard to follow, oddly enough i have no trouble reading the suttas themselves and find them quite readable and easily understood. i have gotten some good information but overall it leads mostly to frustration with it's writing style.

is there a modern equivalent? or even another ancient book that is written differently? i'm looking for something that condenses the contents and methods of the pali tipitaka into one cohesive book.

as tilt points out the Vimmutimagga is not exactly Theravadin, but it is a good book.I don't think there is another book in the same vein, but "Satipatthana - the direct path" by Venerable Analayo is good, as is the work of Venerable Gunaratana (some of which is available freely online.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Try the Venerable Pa Auk Sayadaw's masterwork Knowing and Seeing - it is a very detailed exploration of the path that lifts heavily from the Visuddhimagga without being nearly as hard to get through. Still a lot of great information, however, especially on Jhana types.

LonesomeYogurt wrote:Try the Venerable Pa Auk Sayadaw's masterwork Knowing and Seeing - it is a very detailed exploration of the path that lifts heavily from the Visuddhimagga without being nearly as hard to get through. Still a lot of great information, however, especially on Jhana types.

i ordered "the meditators atlas: a road map to the inner world" by matthew flickstein. i'll post a new thread about it once i've read it.

it is a guide to a guide. it summarizes and explains the visuddhimagga which is generally accepted as the most comprehensive guide to theravada practice. so i'll let everyone know if it's very good or not. amazon has it for .01 plus 3.99 shipping, can't beat that price so i just ordered it.

everyone is giving me great suggestions! thank you to everyone!

while all of them are wonderful most do not cover as much ground as visuddhimagga, this book hopefully will. it's table of contents is really close to the table of contents of visuddhimagga so that's a good sign.

alan... wrote:i ordered "the meditators atlas: a road map to the inner world" by matthew flickstein. i'll post a new thread about it once i've read it.

it is a guide to a guide. it summarizes and explains the visuddhimagga which is generally accepted as the most comprehensive guide to theravada practice. so i'll let everyone know if it's very good or not. amazon has it for .01 plus 3.99 shipping, can't beat that price so i just ordered it.

everyone is giving me great suggestions! thank you to everyone!

while all of them are wonderful most do not cover as much ground as visuddhimagga, this book hopefully will. it's table of contents is really close to the table of contents of visuddhimagga so that's a good sign.

Alan, I'm looking forward to your review. My absolute favorite "how to" manual so far is Ajahn Brahm's Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond. Really great book. Basically his version of the Anapanasati Sutta. My primary reason for liking it is that it ended up making a huge difference in my meditation. I learned a lot from his book and I'm very grateful.

In any case, I look forward to reading your impressions of meditator's atlas. I have a digital version of the Visuddhimagga and share your impressions about it not being an easy read.

Metta

Sabba rasam dhammaraso jinatiThe flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors

alan... wrote:i ordered "the meditators atlas: a road map to the inner world" by matthew flickstein. i'll post a new thread about it once i've read it.

it is a guide to a guide. it summarizes and explains the visuddhimagga which is generally accepted as the most comprehensive guide to theravada practice. so i'll let everyone know if it's very good or not. amazon has it for .01 plus 3.99 shipping, can't beat that price so i just ordered it.

everyone is giving me great suggestions! thank you to everyone!

while all of them are wonderful most do not cover as much ground as visuddhimagga, this book hopefully will. it's table of contents is really close to the table of contents of visuddhimagga so that's a good sign.

Alan, I'm looking forward to your review. My absolute favorite "how to" manual so far is Ajahn Brahm's Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond. Really great book. Basically his version of the Anapanasati Sutta. My primary reason for liking it is that it ended up making a huge difference in my meditation. I learned a lot from his book and I'm very grateful.

In any case, I look forward to reading your impressions of meditator's atlas. I have a digital version of the Visuddhimagga and share your impressions about it not being an easy read.

Metta

that book pulled my meditation practice out of the garbage. seriously, i was going no where and that book changed everything. then i also got shaila catherine "focused and fearless" which helped a great deal as well with more willful techniques as opposed to brahm's more automatic development techniques. they compliment each other well in this way.

"Bud­dhad­hamma is a com­pendium of the Bud­dhist Pali Canon. It is divided into two parts: part one con­tains the objec­tive and bal­anced truths that are the foun­da­tion of the Bud­dhist sys­tem of prac­tice (the Mid­dle Teach­ing)."

"The Bud­dhad­hamma Foun­da­tion, a non-profit pub­lish­ing com­pany in Bangkok, is presently spon­sor­ing a com­plete Eng­lish trans­la­tion of Bud­dhad­hamma. With Ajahn Payutto’s bless­ing, Robin Moore is doing the trans­la­tion work for this project. The plan is to fin­ish this trans­la­tion before the end of the year 2013."

LonesomeYogurt wrote:If you liked Focused and Fearless, have you read her larger work, Wisdom Wide and Deep? It is essentially Focused and Fearless 2.0 and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

yeah people keep recommending that one. thanks. i'm reading bhante g "four foundations of mindfulness in plain english" then analayo's "satipatthana: the direct path to realization", the catherine book will probably be after those two.