“Could thrive supplements and patch be the cause of Chris Watts’s Rage?”

I highly recommend watching the THRIVE promo video above to get a sense of the glossy, glitzy spiel they’re selling.

The short answer to the above question is no. I recall someone made a claim that elevated Vitamin B in the Thrive patches could have caused mood swings in Chris Watts. This idea and all permutations of it are patently ridiculous. It’s comparable to soaking a band-aid in alcohol and then claiming you were driving under the influence not because you were drinking, but because of the band-aid.

I suspect the folks who’ve started discussing this idea that the Thrive products “caused” Chris Watts to lose it and murder his pregnant wife and two children on August 13 misheard or misinterpreted someone saying effectively: “I’m telling you, the Thrive shit drove him nuts.”

That part may be and probably is true. Shan’ann was a network marketer, which basically means she turned her whole life [including her family] into a series of sales pitches. Meals become sales pitches. Holidays are all about peddling products and the “Thrive” lifestyle. Literally everything becomes subsumed by it. And to get a sense of this, one simply has to look at Shan’ann’s Facebook page. She’s a brand ambassador and pretty much all her marketing is done on Facebook. Those who cheerlead her efforts are other network marketers.

So, revisiting the question: “Could thrive supplements and patch be the cause of Chris Watts’s Rage?” In the sense that he became tired of the endless rah-rah that’s part and parcel of network marketing, the tireless always-on selling, literally day in and day out, it’s a valid question.

Very likely he was very put off by it, and let’s face it, someone like that who is selling your home life constantly on Facebook, putting a little jingle on every moment, over time isn’t going to tug at your heartstrings. It’s not romantic it’s mercenary. It’s not genuine moments, it’s financial desperation.

Although the Thrive business had a significant impact on Chris Watts’s disillusionment, it clearly wasn’t the main driving force in his motive to commit murder. It’s an important part of the puzzle certainly, but not the biggest part. Did it feed, in some way, into the motive? Absolutely.

To determine the extent of his disillusionment with her one only has to trawl through Shan’ann’s social media to get a sense of the sheer volume of the promotion. It’s difficult to come across a single picture of her without one of the patches featuring prominently. She also has her husband and kids posing endlessly to sell the Thrive lifestyle.

It looks exhausting. In her video feed she has 357 videos posted over a two year period. That’s almost a video every two days.

Her Facebook profile photo shows her prominently lifting her arm and displaying a patch. This is her version of her identity. This is her version of who she says she is.

Shortly after her death, after posting a few initial messages of support, her Thrive pals reverted to more endless, breathless promotion on Facebook.

It’s maddening, and if the social media of her closest friends and their mercenary attempts to sell sell sell so soon after her distressing death, then her own content clearly portrays something similar – there’s a mechanical sense of a brand and product eclipsing almost all the family stuff on her Facebook. She has two small children and had recently become pregnant, so for the product placement to eclipse the kiddie and family stuff takes some doing.

There’s also an irony in the endless promotion of Thriving while they – as a couple – were dying. They were bankrupt, Shan’ann had an autoimmune disease and her husband was actively cheating on her. But it was all being sold and packaged as a shiny fairy tale.

The real question is did she know how bogus it was beyond the financial ruin side of things? Did she know the family was a fiction, but was selling it anyway? Based on a few early accounts by friends that have come forward, she did know/suspected her husband was cheating on her, and still sold him as the best thing since sliced bread.

57 thoughts on ““Could thrive supplements and patch be the cause of Chris Watts’s Rage?””

We don’t know how the stimulants in the shake and the pills affected any of the players. There are many sites out there which look at the stimulants involved and how they work, side-effects & withdrawal from them. Obviously none of them will drive anybody to murder. Could they make a user irritable or affect mood via use or cessation? It’s possible. Plenty of websites out there discussing this, before these tragic murders

I agree re multiple triggers and I don’t think anything he might have been taking causes anyone to kill entire family. Even if he was on some meds/drugs, would it work as mitigation in sentencing? Probably not but it might still become a defense theme. It’s also been striking, across social media, the number of company reps out there to take the focus off of anything related to the company’s practices & products and controversies around them. Major damage control operation going on.

You may well be correct, but doesn’t matter bc Watts plead GUILTY, so that’s it. He’s in for life, no parole. So unless some bona fide expert comes up with irrefutable evidence that THRIVE causes mentally well people to kill their spouses, it’s over. Stick a fork in him. He’s done.

I am so glad you mentioned this, even though you really have not done due diligence in researching this stuff. ( directed towards author of this story)
these products contain MASSIVE amounts of caffeine & caffeine containing herbal supplements such as guarana, ginko baloba and many other products.
this poor woman finds her magic bullet to lose her weight, and her narcissistic husband started taking it immediately, of course I am sure he made it look like it was to support her business. the reality was he was a competitive POS who felt insecure with his wife & her success. Her personality could handle massive doses of stimulant, what effect did the drugs have on him? Started having inappropriate sexually deviant affairs. Sick POS!
you want to know how these garbage supplements affect someone who already has a personality disorder, ie: covert narcissist, its well documented back during the 90s Herbalife craze. Look up the lawsuits.
Frankly his defense should of went after this company IMO because a good defense attorney could easily say these MLM herbal companies are destroying lives by marketing these products as saviours to overweight overworked women & men. Why do you think Cocaine was so popular in the 70s and meth is so popular to the poor people in rural areas? its highly touted to push your sexual side into overdrive.
RIP Shanann & babies. To anyone on THRIVE…. beware if you’re marriage is on shaky ground.

I’m not even sure where to start with you, whether it be your complete lack of respect for Nick and the research he’s done, your grammar, your spelling, your conceived notions about this case, or your uneducated comments, but I’m going to give it a shot.

“I am so glad you mentioned this, even though you really have not done due diligence in researching this stuff. ( directed towards author of this story)”

Nick has for his research quite thoroughly, the discovery documents alone were about 2000 pages and barely scratched the surface, and he did more than his due diligence when researching the case. He has two blogs and his written over 5 books on this case where he pours over every conceivable aspect of Shanann and Chris Watts’ lives. This gentleman has caught errors and contradictions that the wide stream media didn’t even pick up on, and has delved deep into issues other people have glossed over. If anything, the one that appears to have a superficial view of the facts related to this case is you. You seem to know not much about it, and what you do know is either wrong or incomplete.

“these products contain MASSIVE amounts of caffeine & caffeine containing herbal supplements such as guarana, ginko baloba and many other products.this poor woman finds her magic bullet to lose her weight, and her narcissistic husband started taking it immediately, of course I am sure he made it look like it was to support her business. the reality was he was a competitive POS who felt insecure with his wife & her success.”

These products? You mean the products that Shanann thrust upon every person in her household, children included, because she believed (yet again) that this would be her “Get Rich Quick!” Scheme, her next road to riches. This was just one of the multiple MLMs this woman joined and sunk thousands of dollars into to only get a negative ROI while furthering her family’s terrible financial position. She had done ItWorks!, Amway, Oragami Owl and 31 to name a few, all of which she dumped tons of money into to not get anything back. Instead of getting a real work from home job or doing shift with that alternated with her husband’s schedule, she kept throwing away money into a pyramid scheme while pretending it was making get rich while it was bankrupting the family further. She was losing money, the numbers reported were what her team was making in sales, and it wasn’t even her team. Chris was her downline and maybe Nicole, that’s it, and that’s how you make money in these impossible shills. Truth is, Shanann was someone’s downline and while she was making someone else money, she was putting herself and her family into the poor house. They were about to be foreclosed on and were in 6 figure debt only 3 years after bankruptcy.

Regarding the ingredients in Thrive, caffeine and guarana are found in many other supplements not regulated by the FDA. They exist in high levels in many energy beverages like RedBull and while I believe they can make you uppity or irritable, they’re not the reason for this murder or the terrible things Chris did. That’s on him. Plenty of people take that garbage and don’t annihilate their families. Furthermore, there is no magic bullet (as you say) to lose weight, counting calories and eating below your TDEE is most important, then exercise. As they say, you can’t outrun a bad diet and weightloss starts in the kitchen, so if you monitor what you eat and eat less, you’ll lose weight. Guess what? That’s free! It does take discipline however, and it’s not as easy as some would like it to be, but it works. She had more than enough free time to meal plan, instead she forced non FDA regulated, sketchy MLM products on herself, her husband and her kids. Yep, she was giving it to the children as well.

You talk about Shananns success, yet it is widely known all that was fabricated. When they filed bankruptcy her monthly take from the MLM she was in was barely $100 and it was $150 to stay active, she was losing money. She hadn’t brought in a paycheck since she quit her call center job. She lied about her success in that MLM, it’s been shown none of that was true and she was coming up negative every month. Chris was the only one bringing in money and they lived way beyond their means. As for Chris’s “sexual deviant” behavior, sure having an affair is a shitty thing to do, but let’s not forget Shanann did the same thing to her first husband. If you’re referring to the actual sex acts between him and Nicole, it may not be the boring vanilla activities you’re used to but plenty of people engage in those same acts and lead productive lives while not harming their loved ones.

If you were looking for a website that does “puff pieces” so to speak, this blog isn’t for you. Nick looks at all angles of a person’s life an goes deeper than most in an attempt to uncover why a person did what they did and what led to their inconceivable actions. He doesn’t try to excuse them; His goal is to to examine all the facts before him and say “This was his line of thinking at the time, and this was the cause and effect of it”. That’s how you find the motive, which conveniently, everyone has ignored in this case and is yet to talk about what led him to this life of messed up thinking. He had never displayed violence or outright aggression towards his family, then one day… this occurs. It’s easy to say “he snapped” but that’s the cheap artificial answer that explains nothing and is an excuse for people who don’t want to put the work in. Simple as that.

You don’t have to agree with his views, but to say Nick isn’t educated on the topic when you are the one that thinks Shanann was making money off a pyramid scheme, one of the first myths dispelled… Well it speaks to your ignorance in this case. Not one person here is excusing his actions, they’re just trying to figure out what the catalyst(s) of the explosion were. Perhaps you’d be better off picking up a tabloid and reading about the murders, that seems more your speed

I also wanted to add, cocaine and meth aren’t “pushed” anywhere, they’re drugs and they get people addicted. Meth is cheap to make and produce and thus you’ll find it to be more prevalent in rural and suburban areas where there isn’t much money. Boredom is a factor as well, and when there’s nothing to do and life becomes redundant, often humans will use drugs as an escape. Although cheap to make meth is highly addictive and only takes a few uses to get you hooked, it also keeps you awake longer so people who work tedious long shifts doing manual labor will utilize it just to get through. Cocaine is a party drug, and while addictive it is highly expensive. I grew up in an extremely wealthy family and there was no shortage of cocaine being used at ritzy country clubs where the average members salary was nothing short of $10 million a year, that being on the lower end. These country clubs had memberships that started at $100,000 USD and up, and I’ve never seen more of that drug in my life. If you think cocaine is a drug for the poor and forgotten, you’re quite frankly out of mind and again, not educated on the subject.

I’m late to the party I know….. The capsules contain PEA Phenylmethylamine which as I understand it is a hormone like substance that occurs naturally in our bodies. PEA in the chemical form functions as a nuerotransmitter which helps with mood and can give more focus in brain. PEA is also a stimulant which has the same chemical make up as MDMA and amphetamines. Those with low PEA occurring naturally in their body can benefit from the supplement but in people with high PEA such as those with conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia and elevated depression taking a PEA supplement can intensify their symptoms/ disorder.
All supplements especially the use of PEA should only be used under the direction of a doctor

Most people who join MLM companies are convinced by the the guy/gal promoting the product that having your spouse join as well will kickstart their downline. The sell line is if you have 20 friends and your spouse has 20, then you’ll be executives in no time at all…And you’ll get big discounts on your personal products. I was backed into a corner 3 different times by my own spouse trying to sign me up to a new MLM each time we failed at one and quit. The sign up fees are huge, and then all the products, and his and mine came out of MY accounts because he said this was the easiest way to make sure the memberships and products got paid for. Then I’d go to my regular job to make my real salary only to discover he hadn’t gotten anyone signed up for 6 months except me. Both of us had tons of product and we had to start stashing it in the cabinets. (I still have products even 10 years later). He told me to get promoting to my friends and clients so I’d get sign ups but I’m just not a salesman as CW said himself in the Feb 2019 interview. I said “well you want to do this business then YOU go do it but you have to pay for your own stuff if you run your own business.” I’m sure CW pay check disappeared as quick as mine. I could see, myself, that the bills were getting difficult to pay, and it got to the point I had to start cutting services such as insurance for the house and car. The stress of my spouse spending my paycheck got too stressful and I began getting sick. After 8 years of in and out of MLM, and being penniless, I had to save myself and the kids. That was the end of us as a family. Heartache and climbing back out of the hole took 3 years, and yes, he came back asking 3 more times for me to join a new MLM but I just laughed. .. Same old story. He was just keeping himself busy with someone else’s money, never ever could get a real job. SW was desperate to get her downline and CW knew it was for the family and since he loved her and the kids (as I did my own family), he went along with the “charade.” Until someone else convinced him otherwise (he was feeling freer with NK). I also started to go out, no affairs, but just to have a few drinks with friends without my spouse because I was super burnt out. I began to tell people and ask advice and most people were literally shocked at how much I let my spouse take advantage. Most said “leave him, save yourself and the kids from complete ruin.” I was equally shocked to hear the reality of it because I had married for love and this was the dream life with a family I had always wanted. I was lucky to have been strong enough to make it on my own after the big blow out. He even whacked me with the back of his fist almost breaking my jaw, but I still escaped and rebuilt my life before being penniless and homeless. “Thou shall not kill” should be followed by all despite being in dire circumstances. Save yourself and the kids before its rock rock bottom and someone ends up dead!!

I was always told never mix prescribed meds with any herbal products. I have an autoimmune disease rheumatoid arithritis & I make sure of what I mix together. I do believe thrive contributed in every way to what happened. Shannon life revolved around it & used her family to sell it. It became an addiction to make money, get free holidays & etc.A far as Chris was concerned this was not the life he wanted. The less people that came into his life the better for him. He just couldn’t be himself, & do the things he loved & never spoke his mind to make Shanann happy. I will admit she was controlling & like one crime reporter said he loved cars & while Shanann was leasing her Lexus he drove a run down truck. She controlled the finance & yet flipped at the very last receipt which he spent. When the police were searching the house it was massive & you wouldn’t believe that someone with debts could afford it. It wasn’t his world & the fact that shanann wasn’t speaking to his family & didn’t even attend the wedding which I would like to know why yet he married her he must of loved her. If should truly loved him she should have accepted his family. That would have added more sadness concerning him yet it had to be her way. Imagine taking constantly photos , being on Facebook, & dragging the family into it. Not to mention the many times she had to travel & he had to babysit. Didn’t that cause spending so much money. In a marriage there is always 2 sides to a story & we don’t know exactly how they were as a couple. Apparently he didn’t sleep much cause of too much energy caused by thrive. So how do we feel like when we don’t sleep. Horrible , frustrated, irritable , & angry. Chris reached the point of a break down, & being with Nicole was the most comfortable , free spirited person he ever felt. . He came across as a loving father but all he wanted was a new life with Nicole. I don’t believe it was premidated instead they broke into an argument & the unthinkable happened. Unfortunately it didn’t go his way of just divorcing. What I don’t understand is why kill your kids & dump them in crude oil when he loved them so much. Why can’t the police , physiologists etc find out about this. I’m not defending Chris purely cause of how he murdered his family but he reached the point that he hated Shannon so much that didn’t think of his actions, & didn’t have any empathy. This is why he never cried a tear even after with the police cause he just didn’t care no more. God bless shaman Bella & Celeste. As far as thrive is concerned I’ll be glad to see you go bankrupt

This comment was blindingly stupid. “He just couldn’t be himself.” What, a family annihilator? “He drove a broken-down truck while she was leasing her Lexus.” Boo hoo, she EARNED that car, what was their family supposed to travel with, a skateboard? “O, poor Chris couldn’t sleep, he had no energy!” He had enough energy to stick it in Kessinger’s butthole every night. If that’s what a “free spirited” woman is, no thanx. ‘Sides, if she was “free-spirited”, it’s because she didn’t have a family to take care of, DUH! But he was a married husband and father, so fucking WAH. And she ruled over Watts, too; he’s a pussy. That’s why he did everything he did, he’s a pussy, just like his piece-of-meat-with-eyes dad. Listen to his bitch mom, damn! You realky believe Thrive killed his family. Yah, so did Twinkies. Did your mom fall down a flight of stairs when she was pregnant with you? And, “She should have accepted his family”??? They were total cunts to her and her fam, and tried to murder Celeste with pistachios! Well, he corrected THAT, didn’t he? “It wasn’t premeditated, why can’t the police, physiologists, etc find out about it?” How is that supposed to happen, when all he does is lie? Hey, look, YOU believed him. Yah, you yourself need to stay away from Thrive, Twinkies, and anything with caffeine, because they all contain ingredients that make you feel sorry for Chris Watts.

He could have been taking steroids. I have a hard time accepting their marriage was a sham. They had issues, lots of marriages do. Her selling thrive was her way of earning a living. Those videos and pictures were just a short piece of her day. She was a wife, a mother, a friend, a sister, and a daughter amongst other things. Could her focus on selling Thrive take away from her attention to Chris? Doesn’t matter – the bottom line is Chris chose to strangle them. Nothing made him do it. Even in a rage he chose to do it. He had other options. We would like to understand the motive to possibly prevent it from happening again. Maybe how to look for signs of it in someone else? Shanann believed in her family and marriage. It wasn’t a sham to her. Chris is the sham. He was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Was he always a wolf? Or was he a sheep that morphed into a wolf? I just keep asking why did he strangle them? And I keep coming back to he did it because he chose to. There will never be a good reason for why.

It’s not that I’ve made up my mind, it’s that I feel like I’m in a vortex going in circles. I try to “figure it out”, but I’m stuck in a circle. I realize it wasn’t one thing, it was several things that added up. But I get stuck at the fact that all the things added up to his choice. He CHOSE murder. It’s sickening and I wonder why he chose murder. Why not divorce? Why not faking his own death and disappearing? Why did he choose murder? Did he think it was the easy way out?

What Carlotta makes sense. Are angry because you watch too many youtube videos by those men who say they don’t want women, but instead of leaving women alone to have hero gentlemen, they spend their time trying to make women feel bad?

I’m sorry Carlotta but you are wrong. They weren’t a normal functioning family, it’s obvious in all their videos. Her life was thrive in every way.
Everything had to be way or no way. A very controlling abusive woman with a serious condition of lupus which she shouldn’t have taken thrive at all. Even patches are a danger as they go through your system. I have an auto-immune disease which is rheumatoid arithritis & also fibromaglia. Believe me it’s not just the pain but the fatigue is so bad. The only way I got better was by eating healthy & exercising. Is you notice shanann always look pale, tired, & breathless at times. She was brainwashed & obsessed with this company but she loved the money & attention. Chris on the other hand was reserved, & hated all this attention & the shit she couldn’t stop taking about. She used Chris in every way. Do this do that. In one video she’s doing her hair & makeup & says Chris does the laundry like everything else. I got sick of listening to her repetivi videos , so imagine him. He did it to please her. Sometimes in life we hold our anger & sadness within our selves, but the bubble has to burst eventually & that’s what happened. He asked for a divorce she couldn’t handle it cause she always got her way & eventually he snapped. Of course no one should murder anyone even your own children but this man ‘s anger blew up like a volcano & committed the most haunting evil act. No one ever knows what goes on behind closed doors & all the photos in the world that she had couldn’t bring her happiness. The simple things in life are the best, unfortunately she was unbearable with thrive

I don’t feel that those that were trying to plug a health product should be bashed on here. You speak of Thrive…so talk about the product! There were more than Chris and Shan’ann Watts using the product.

She believed in it! Like someone who follows the Wrightwatchers Diet plan, or Slimmers World, it’s okay for them to create vlogs about their daily recipes or routines? Let’s not forget The Watts family did things together too!

I can’t believe that this whole product has turned into the Chris Watts against Shan’ann Watts show. She is dead..along with her three children (including unborn baby Nico in this).

Thrive gave him the confidence, the body he wanted. A zest to go out and show it off. He found someone who caught his eye, gave him a new lust for life…and new life in general! And this new piece of skirt and the live he wanted with her was more than any love that he had for his own children and wife. Not happy? He had the option to divorce!

After reading the case reports, and what has since followed. Shan’ann was a devoted mother and wife. She promoted Thrive because it was her job! She (thought) and made us believe Chris was supportive of her, he was there most of the time.

He gave a testamony through a video chat with Thrive of the product in the days leading to his family’s ‘disappearance’.

People…do your homework…don’tbash a woman who is no longer here to defend herself.

In the #metoo age, this stance is sheerly expected if not completely cliché in its usage. And oh look its from a woman. With just a little tinge of offense intended, the mob is going to mob right Carlotta (that names sounds way to porn star if you ask me.)? At any rate, the mob is solely blinded by the fact that this is a “white woman” who is rather attractive. Attractive for most, but definitely not for many gay men. And that seems to be a huge dichotomy that a lot of women seem to running over in the mob to judgment in the CO vs. Watts affair. But “straight women” and “gay men” aside, and this discludes lesbians (sorry ladies) for all intents and purposes, Chris Watts is bisexual. So this nonsense of cheating men and loving wives really needs to be sent packing.

Watts admitted to sexual experiences when he was young man in school, and we can all be sure that there’s a lot more story in that vein from then to now that hasn’t been discussed under the watch of counsel. Watt’s story is multi-faceted, and it isn’t one thing over the others that brought about this tragic situation. And Watt’s story is a gay story, when compartmentalization comes with the closet-space. For those who commit murder, they reach that apex in their life for so many reasons, but the one thing that is clear, is that whatever happened before or after in their lives, the murder/murders is the defining factor for each and every perpetrator. Chris Watts is no different. In fact, he practically was born for such an outcome considering serial killer profiles always describe white men between the ages of 20 and 35 with a high intellect and charming nature, and Watts is a prime demographic at 33.

Let’s talk about other factors. Watts liked rough sex, and this can be on account that he grew up in a very homophobic paternal environment. Which is an awful characteristic because science not only says that all men have the preponderance to be gay from the get go, the gay gene can be said to be passed down from the mother’s dynamic moreso, to which the elder Mr. Watts may not have had to suffer through, so he suffered his son. And thus, the elder Watts’ poor son had to search for a meaning in a bisexual fog with a super straight father, and his very own manipulative wife. I am sure that he found meaning in his family, and his picture perfect Colorado tract home, until the picture frame broke.

People have debt. Its the cornerstone of our culture in America. To have debt is to be American. But the nature that brings on that debt is about as clichéd as blaming men for matrimonial troubles. The Watts were nearly half a million dollars in debt – Chris Watts was on the line for over 450k at the age of 33. Colorado does that to people. People move to Colorado hoping to make a life, and when they arrive there, people are already profoundly rich, whether from ancient gold rushes, to California transfer of gold to Colorado, the fancy life Colorado enjoys as a given, is often not a given for those who arrive late and are yet forced to compete in the rat race that is Colorado high life. McMansions abound the front range, and they aren’t cheap – but they are all somehow filled. Perhaps, filled with the millions of Coloradoans who are in debt up to their ears, just like the Watts. And just like the Watts, perhaps no one told them that the real millionaires in Colorado live in modest homes in aged neighborhoods like Englewood and Littleton. In turn, this young couple, trying to be a wealth that the Denver metroplex demands from everyone, found massive and endless debt and tax and something to bury their head from. Death from taxes.

This is all aside the late missus, who herself was a very curious individual. Could it be naiveté? Or could it be a case of a helicopter mother and wife emasculating her mister? Watts’ father was said to have called him a “girlie boy” once or twice, and it could be surmised that the missus dared say what only a father could. We’ll never know, because the details skipped the open trial. The pictures are great for low information voters, but to the details found by a photo editor, the pictures don’t paint a thousand words, they elucidate the hell of what can be determined to be an uber-superficial life, encased in a castle of mounting debt. The lovely wife drove a Lexus, jetted to Scottsdale resorts, whilst complaining about the price of a beer and burger in a city that charges twice as much if the beer comes from Breckenridge. There is so much that is being ignored in the background of this wife, precisely because she is a white woman. If this were a story about a black or a Latino, IF! the press covered those that happen regularly you’d know the gory dirty details of the missus’ life would be plastered right along the juicy details of Watts’ dalliances in Wyoming same sex love. They say ‘don’t ever stick your d*&# in crazy”. The late missus was already on her second marriage with Chris Watts, and a forthcoming divorce most certainly could have sent her reeling without the help of the chemicals in the thrive patches.

So all in all the cliché that Carlotta is, is what is truly blinding us from knowing the real reality for this tragic family. Whilst the mob circles the wagons around a woman who could do no wrong, we are left to demonize a young man whose life got away from him, and then went on to find himself a demon for real. Pity.

COcounsel you sound as if you’ve been snorting those patches the Watts family displayed so prominently in every single photograph. Good Lord-you’re all over the place. Mostly with run on sentences that sprinkle some moderately ‘big words’ but ultimately lead nowhere. I guess your “point” is Colorado is really expensive and Chris and Shanann ran up massive debt trying to keep up with the Joneses!? And, while it’s obviously true Chris killed more than one person he doesn’t even fit the commonly accepted definition of a serial killer…which, in general, is defined as someone who murders three or more people with an extended period or periods of ‘cooling off ‘ in between. So your barely amateur serial killer profiling is pointless here. If ever there was a perfect post for a TL;DR it’s gotta be your’s here. It would look something like (or exactly like) this:
COcounsel’s Post = TL;DR Lots of words (several misused) that when added together make little if any sense! Significant amounts of ranting and raving about ummmm….nobody has any idea 🤷🏼‍♂️😳🤷‍♀️

A pre-meditated murder doesn’t peculate and fester in a vacuum. We have to take a look at all of the people involved, even the victim(s). There may not be a “good reason” for why, but there is a reason, Carlotta. What I always wonder though is afterward. Does the killer think his or her situation has improved? Are there any regrets, any remorse? Do they really think they can get away with it? I’m sure they practice their stories but how the story is received is dependent on who’s listening and who’s questioning them about it – be it family members, police, kooks.

I agree with you Pauline. How is Chris feeling now under suicide watch? 23 hours a day with nothing to read or watch? He snuffed out the ones that loved him. Reading up on psychopaths and sociopaths tells me they either have no feelings, no remorse, or make up lies in their minds that they believe to mak themselves the victim. If this is Chris, he’s feeling nothing or believes the law has it wrong? Can you rehabilitate someone like that? Like I said before, was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, or was a sheep that morphed into a wolf? Was he born this way, or did he become this way, or was it something else? If he can become this way, then that would mean any of us can become that way if circumstances were just right? Everyone has the possibility of doing good or bad. We all have choices. Would you make the choice to murder your family? Why did Chris make that choice? Oh man, I feel like I get sucked back into the vortex trying to figure it out. Help! Please give me understanding!

I see that LeVel is promoted as making “real money” by bringing in other “promoters.” Or in my organization I was involved in, “recruiting.” Over time they changed their language to “sales associates”, have no idea what they are calling them now but it’s recruiting. And, you are only as good as your last month, each month it starts over. People constantly see they can’t sell and drop out. Then they are stuck with thousands of dollars of merchandise. There is a time limit as to how long you can wait to return it to the company, but when you do you can supposedly “never come back into the company” and your sales director (the one up the pyramid higher than you) will get her commissions docked. Your hopes and dreams are dashed as well. Deal with that! One of our mantra’s was “Capture the Vision.” It’s very possible Sha’nann saw this opportunity to help get her family out of financial hock, maybe her husband believed, initially, it would too.

The part that is easy to miss is that for whatever reason Chris started to hate and despise Shan’ann, and his life. It’s not an unemotional crime, it’s the opposite. The key to figuring it out is to look at Chris Wattss’s true identity and true nature vis-avis the family dynamic [the true nature of the family dynamic]. An easy way to start, a first step, is to look at the worst arguments you’ve ever had with the opposite sex, and why.

I noticed a lot of men in the USA spend a lot of time whining on about women, and also some women about men, as if men and women dislike each other there. So how is killing his children anything to do with arguments with the opposite gender? I know lots of males are easily led by all the weirdos on yout making videos, such as Incels angry that women prefer to sleep with men who make them feel good, but maybe it’s to do with him and not the opposite gender?

When I read this second “Treachery” book about Casey Anthony I understand that you have to be “in their mind” to figure out the why of it. Don’t second guess yourself Carlotta, that you might suddenly feel pushed to commit murder. It’s a certain kind of “trapped” as I see it. A belief that snuffing out the lives of those nearest and dearest to you will release you from your trap. It’s a false belief of course.

it seems like shannan probably had the spending problem judging from the amount of items in her shoe closet and the massive amounts of containers in the basement. Her parents also filed bankruptcy, so she may have learned how not to be financially responsible from her parents.

So Chris starts to hate Shanann for whatever reason…. he doesn’t want to be married anymore. Divorce. He doesn’t want to be a dad anymore. That’s the one that’s hard to figure out. Once a dad, always a dad. He has to pay child support or share custody. Maybe that’s why he killed the kids and then Shanann?

If we could have a real solid peek into Chris Watt’s childhood we might find other instances where he carried around suppressed rage, then acted on it inappropriately. I’m a big believer in early childhood decisions around one’s own family dynamic (the parents) that effects all future relationships to come. Or maybe he always played “the good son” – now mirrored in his particular dynamic with his wife. He was frustrated over not having the career he wanted, he likely spent more money than he took in, etc. Maybe his new girlfriend was whispering in his ear, feeding his fantasy about leaving everyone behind – only the strong pull to be “good” was pulling him the other way. He was pulled in two – so he needed two faces. Remember, he wanted to pull this off as a disappearance, but he just doesn’t have the personality of the high IQ con man. (Just some thoughts).

There is very little evidence released to come to any kind of solid conclusions. But with what’s available I’ve come to a slightly different line of thought as to what might have occurred that night at the Watt’s house.
Just reading comments by people who knew them it appears that there may have been a serious rift opening in the marriage of an introvert and an extrovert. Who knows how long this rift between them had been developing, it could have been months or even years. The introvert resenting being pulled and pushed by the extrovert and the extrovert resenting having to do the pushing and pulling. The introvert developing a life beyond the control of the extrovert and the extrovert merrily skipping forward as though nothing is amiss. Just my opinion!!!
I don’t see Chris Watts as a Scott Peterson. Peterson was cold, calculating and had a plan that might have worked. Not Chris Watts. So far I see no plan. Had he thought about killing his family? Probably. He wanted out for various reasons and he might have entertained the idea that if they were gone he would be free and collect the life insurance. But I don’t think he planned to do it that night for two reasons.

#1 – When a spouse goes missing the remaining spouse and/or the last person to see the victim is suspect number one.
Chris Watts tells the first officer on the scene, then the detective and then the media that he had an emotional conversation about wanting a separation and they were both upset and crying.
Why the hell would he ever admit to that? Why the hell would he ever implicate himself in that way?
The only reason I can come up with is to cover his tracks in the event that one of the neighbors overheard the “scream fest” that occurred that night.
If Chris Watts says that his wife just came home and went to bed but the police have a witness that says they heard them screaming and yelling at 3:00 a.m. then Chris is in trouble and he knows it
.
#2 – No staging of the scene. IF the murders were planned then Chris Watts had more than 3 hours to stage the scene to coincide with whatever story he had planned. The scene was not staged as “foul play” nor “ran off with another man” nor “normal – nothing happened here.” It doesn’t appear to be staged at all.
This leads me to believe Chris ran out of time. The “fight” raged for quite some time and he needed to either leave at a usual time for work or more likely he wanted to leave under cover of darkness.

Who killed those two adorable little girls and why? I have no idea. Unless the Prosecution can come up with clear and convincing forensic evidence I might never know who killed them for sure.
I have to remind myself that both parents had motive, means and opportunity. Chris wanted to be free and Shan’ann’s publicly portrayed perfect life was crumbling around her.

Is Chris Watts a sociopath and a monster? I’m not sure but with what little information is available my first impression is that he is neither. Historically, murdering sociopaths rarely, if ever confess within 2 days of committing murder no matter what evidence police present. And some of them never ever admit guilt even while sitting on death row at the end of all appeals. But, as more verifiable information becomes available I reserve the right to change my opinion!!!

As stated above, I don’t think Chris Watts planned any murders for that night. I think he snapped.

Such a sad, sad tragedy. I don’t see any monsters in this case yet but we have a long way to go.

I’ve heard the same word with the Van Breda triple axe murder case, where a 20-year-old hacked to death both parents, his brother and his sister [she somehow survived]. It’s easy to imagine someone having a mood swing and snapping with a gun, but when there’s serial hacking with an axe, or serial strangling, the time period is longer. Snapping is temporary. These crimes took place over many minutes, and the cover-ups lasted several hours.

In the Van Breda case his older brother took several hours to bleed out, and his sister ultimately suffered and bled and survived. The notion of “snapping” suggests a sudden change of heart. If you have a sudden change of heart, you ought to have just as sudden a change of heart afterwards, and yet we see none of that in the Van Breda case or the Watts case, or in the Peterson case for that matter.

People use the word “snapped” and at face value it sounds right, but it doesn’t even nearly work in this crime. Mind if I illustrate what I mean?

In the video clip below, Spock uncharacteristically snaps. This loss of control lasts a good couple of seconds until, in the midst of strangling Kirk he regains his composure and realizes what he’s doing, and restrains himself. He immediately feels embarrassment and remorse and contrition afterwards. He quits his position. But here’s the takeout. He didn’t just “snap” – his planet had recently been destroyed, and his mother killed. He was primed to snap in other words, and Kirk was trying to do exactly that using the advice of Older Spock.

Older Spock told Kirk “I am emotionally compromised”. [Second clip.]

It’s this process of emotional compromise that I’m investigating in the Two Face narrative, because it’s the area hardest to fathom and the area overlooked by virtually everyone.

So it’s important to imagine Chris Watts “snapping” and the idea of Spock strangling Kirk and completing the action, then strangling another person to completion, and then another. There’s a lot of commitment there, and no contrition afterwards. It’s a lot deeper than snapping, and in any event, this idea of snapping doesn’t explain anything. What we’re all here to find out is the explanation that led to this moment. Is there one, or isn’t there? I believe there is and I believe Two Face will demonstrate the underlying conveyors in discomfiting detail.

But you are assuming he killed all 3. He says he killed his wife only in a fit of rage. Law calls it sudden passion which would lower his years in prison if found guilty. Of course I don’t believe it, so hoping that autopsies prove the girls were killed hours before his wife. It’s going to be a long time until he goes to trial. ☹️

I use the term “snapped” as opposed to “planned” for that specific night. Snapped in my context means an unexpected mentally broken response without a time frame for an end. Once you’ve “snapped” you might stay “snapped” (mentally broken) for hours or forever. You use the term as a temporary state of mind that is rapidly overcome and an “unsnapped” state of mind is restored. “Pushed” might have been a better word for me to use.
You are completely correct when you indicate there is a lot of commitment if you strangle 3 human beings. The state of mind that must be present is unfathomable to me. The level of hatred, anger, frustration or indifference is off my scale of comprehension.
I can’t speak to his level of “no contrition” without a crystal ball. He didn’t appear contrite in his plea to the media but “survival” is the ultimate human motivator. What does he feel now?

In my opinion, if Chris Watts planned the murder for that night he appears to have the IQ of a hamster. (And that might be true.)
From the evidence I referenced earlier I’m not seeing a plan for that specific night. I am seeing an emotionally compromised person who’s desperate to escape. (I realize that the question of why is he desperate to escape is what we need answered to learn anything from this tragedy). In his mind, he must escape his current life and I have no doubt that at some point he’s considered different forms of escape and may very well have come to the ultimate conclusion that there was only one answer. Murder. (As demonstrated by the famous Peterson duo – Scott and Drew. By Casey Anthony, etc.)

It might also be true that he was “pushed” to that preexisting conclusion of murder in a fit of rage and frustration. In other words, he had entertained the idea of murder and had run the scene over and over in his mind but had not yet found the courage to pencil in a date on his calendar.

I remain unconvinced that he “planned” murder. Two things I think might point to planning are the deaths of the children and the immediate story that implicates Shan’ann and if used as a successful defense could effectively reduce his sentence from life/death to 12 years for manslaughter.
I need more evidence to be convinced it was planned. Will I get that from Two Face?

You seem to be convinced that he murdered his children. I agree with you but I’m not willing to commit 100% until I have more evidence. Once bitten, twice shy. Susan Smith. I tend to keep all possibilities open until evidence leads them to closure. (Many times there is no specific evidence but the totality of all evidence leads to the logical conclusion that certain doors can be slammed shut).

Either way, planned or unplanned I believe there is an explanation that led to the moment. I am almost completely clueless as to what that might be. In my opinion and with what information is available to me, in their relationship it appears one was “driven” and the other along for the ride. Control can produce devastating mental abuse but is that enough to push someone to murder their children? Lack of respect and constant berating can produce devastating mental abuse but is that enough to push someone to murder their children? Did those things even exist in their relationship? I don’t know. Is there a mental disorder with one or both? I don’t know.
So I just might have to read Two Face to get your take on what might have led them to this tragic end.

Certainly a “tell”.
I only have the media interview but my very first impression was, “Whoa – can you spell narcissist”? (Seriously – I said that out loud.)
It was all about him, I miss them, I need them back, the house is not the same (for me), etc. etc.
It may be a “tell” but does that prove anything?

extreme lack of sleep ,. big loosing weight and 2 patch every 12 hours ,. recommanded 1 per days ,., kessinger said his body want to sleep .,but his mind CANT stop ,., after several days amnesia .loose of visual memory .,shanann take thrive too ., but she doesnt have symptom like chris ,.maybe shanann confront him physically n dat rush of adrenaline wake up fight or flioght response ., tinder sexfriend of c watts said he love to fake rape with extreme strangled neck ,.shes freak out she never see it again .,shock by transformation in the act of sex ,.thrive boost his chance of be unable to deal a very hard situation ., introvert and dont want loose his 2 BABY like he said .,he explode on hard moment of his life .,but its not his normal personality on this night

I sometimes wonder what the danger to women is from all those youtube videos by men frustrated that they can’t trap a woman in an abusive relationship with no confidence. Such a those ones who say they don’t want women, but instead of leaving women alone to have hero gentlemen, they spend their time trying to make women feel bad, or Incels who are angry women prefer to sleep with men who make them feel good

Why is it so hard to believe that taking this product that is NOT FDA approved could have changed the chemicals in his/her brain ? Have you seen people post who have taken this and it made them feel crazy. I think it’s absolutley possible thrive had an impact on both their mental states.

I believe the ingredients in the Thrive products could have played a significant role in Chris Watts’ emotional stability. I recall reading where Shannan was quoted as saying since he started the Weight Loss regimin, Chris “couldn’t stay still”, that he would come home from many hours at work and then mow the lawn, a text or post from him talking about how he had come home and vacuumed and mopped the floors and done laundry. All this truely is evocative of an overampped individual on meth or some other stimulant. I believe absolutely yes the products could have affected his emotional stability, magnifying his sense of self, giving him an exaggerated sense of power, and making him vulnerable to episodes of rage. No they did not cause him to kill his family but yes they certainly could have been a factor.

I don’t think a patch on someone’s arm can drive a totally normal person to murder their family. If the thrive patches caused him to do it he most certainly had the heart to do it. A pshycologist once told me that every person on earth carries around a secret they don’t dare share with someone else. In some cases the secret is that given the opportunity they would totally murder someone. About Shannan’s posts. Based on articles I read it appears as if her husband only started acting differently since she went away on her long trip in July. It’s quite possible when she posted all the videos and photos of her happy loving family, at least from her point of view, things were going great. She specifically stated in a text to him that she can’t understand how you can fall out of love in 5.5 weeks.
As to their lifestyle. I see a family grossly overspending more than they can afford. With all said and done, no matter the flaws Shannan had, it doesn’t give him the right to put his hands on her and the kids. The case makes me sick to the stomach. I have a kid about to be 4, so it’s hard to imagine a parent knowingly causing harm. There is no patch in the world that would drive me to hurt him. I don’t care what’s in it.

YOU don’t care what’s in it but your body doesn’t care what you think. Also, it’s not you: is your husband taking your same patch as you are? Might turn him into a Chris Watts or worse: an Ian Wat..kins!

The Thrive patches are Forskolin and that stuff spikes testosterone. He was likely experiencing aggressiveness and fits of rage from that, sure. I’ve found forskolin to be particularly rough mood-wise.

He was also reportedly doubling up on the patches. Transdermal delivery of forskolin would essentially be like injecting it. Straight past the liver directly into the bloodstream. Sounds potentially dangerous to me.

To the people who write she was abusive with her husband:
2) Please post video links (or titles) and exact time at which the abuse happens. I can’t be bothered to watch this dumb bitch yap nonstop. Thank goodness she can’t make more videos. She’s exhausting. And she should have been murdered for having a stupid apostrophe out of place in her stupidly misspelled name.

Well, if we have all learned anything from this senseless tragedy…we should seriously become people who are self aware. Not only self aware when it comes to the things and situations in our lives that cause us stress and anxiety, but “outwardly aware” of how our actions are affecting those around us. And what I have trouble getting my head around, so WHATm if you have a wife who is involved in health products. So WHAT, if your combined dual incomes aren’t cutting it with the price of your mortgage. Many people, especially when younger, can find themselves in this place in life. What most sane people do is simply “downsize”. They say to heck with what anyone else thinks of their house or their car, and they “downside”; save, start over…it’s no disgrace. And if we find ourselves unable to live with a spouse, just “walk away”. Do the best you can with it, try not to hurt the people around you, but tell them honestly that it’s not working for you, and quietly “move on”. No murders, no trials, no family members torn apart. WHAT is going on with people today that they can’t simply, regardless of their circumstances, just take a time out; a step back; “communicate” your concerns to your spouse…and “love your way out of it”. Where is FAITH?

D O U B T 2: The Madeleine McCann Mystery Available on Amazon

D O U B T 3: The Madeleine McCann Mystery Available on Amazon

THE CRAVEN SILENCE Available on Amazon

THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS Available on Amazon

sequin star Available on Amazon

It’s here! Profiles of 8 of the deadliest school shooters and mass killers in America, and the world

All New! The definitive narrative on the murder of Rebecca Zahau. Available exclusively on Amazon Kindle Unlimited. Click on the image for more information.

Available now on Amazon Kindle, a true crime investigation that challenges everything we know about the world’s most famous artist!

DESPICABLE Available on Amazon

FOXY KNOXY FIGHTS BACK Available on Amazon

EXTRADITION Available on Amazon

OBSCURITY Available on Amazon

INDEFENSIBLE VAN BREDA Available on Amazon

DIABLO Available on Amazon

Available now exclusively on Amazon Kindle Unlimited

Just published! Diablo III analyses in detail Day 68 of the Verdict in this Mammoth trial.

Diablo IV, available exclusively on Amazon Kindle Unlimited

JUSTICE EVENTUALIS AVAILABLE ON AMAZON

It’s here! 200 years from now, the world is it at its end, caught in the grip of an ice age. A great Ring of Ice advances upon all living things that remain. It is a world trying to manage its own contraction.