The main issue with doing what we call a kitchen at gatherings is that we would both insist on serving the general public and insist on not signing a permit.

It'd be only polite to post a large sign reading "Not Inspected by the Health Dept since 2011!" I personally would want to know.

No one expects a small camp serving individuals or few guests to have a permit, and people willingly risk that all the time, but the key is: willingly. Serving the public on a large scale at this particular event implies strongly that you have permission and have met standards, so to do so without a health permit--without announcing otherwise--could be considered deceptive.

Whereas to serve the same food at a Rainbow Gathering the woods, would--by context--not be deceptive.

There are kitchens that refuse to be permitted on playa already.

My rule of thumb is that if you have concerns, people that are careful are proud to show you what they do.
They typically insist.
That's what happened at one camp I asked about.
I've eaten raw food there, and I wouldn't risk my health for the week.

Not permitted isn't always unsafe.

This rule applies to dental offices, the highest risk thing most of us do.
Poor practices are responsible for many hiv and hepatitis infections.
Doing it right is EXPENSIVE.
They are always happy to show you how they do it right, if they do.
If they aren't, run like hell.

Simon of the Playa wrote:i didn't drink from the stream....I didn't carry my bottle anywhere it was illegal.

i DID see unattended pre-schoolers running around naked in the muck in CLOSE proximity to numerous illegal drugs and activities, i did see Krishnas actively recruiting into their CULT, and please, be hateful if that is what you feel towards me pointing out the flaws in your gathering, at least thats truthful and not some hippy bullshit.

and get a hair-cut, goddamit.

There will be irresponsible people at gatherings just like there will be in the rest of the world (including burning man). The rainbows Ive met that have been attending since a very young age (one friend of mine has gone since birth) have a better relationship with substances than the vast majority of substance users Ive met in the regular world.
I believe that if someone is going to do drugs (legal or illegal) that it is far more responsible to be open and honest with your children and make an attempt to educate them rather than lie to them or hide it from them.
Why do you hate the krishnas? Im not fond of the way they recruit either, as they seem to specifically take interest in people who feel lost or unsure of their direction in life. But their methods are in my opinion far less imposing than many mainstream religions attempts to recruit people. I would by no means call them a cult.
I wasnt trying to come across with a holier than thou attitude. I can understand why a lot of the philosophies that some rainbows are fond of could come across that way, as we tend to be idealists. You have every right to think its just a bunch of "hippy bullshit" but its what some of us believe will make a better world.

Oh, and I shave my head.

"The cost of sanity in this society, is a certain levelï»¿ of alienation"

Simon of the Playa wrote:i didn't drink from the stream....I didn't carry my bottle anywhere it was illegal.

i DID see unattended pre-schoolers running around naked in the muck in CLOSE proximity to numerous illegal drugs and activities, i did see Krishnas actively recruiting into their CULT, and please, be hateful if that is what you feel towards me pointing out the flaws in your gathering, at least thats truthful and not some hippy bullshit.

and get a hair-cut, goddamit.

I've seen dangerous cults recruiting at b man regionals, and I was warned about one at the gathering considered dangerous.

There did seem to be a certain amount of intolerance toward high powered rifles and explosives there.

cephalopod wrote:Why do you hate the krishnas? Im not fond of the way they recruit either, as they seem to specifically take interest in people who feel lost or unsure of their direction in life. But their methods are in my opinion far less imposing than many mainstream religions attempts to recruit people. I would by no means call them a cult.

I can't speak for Simon.
I would call them a cult. I do call them a cult. Not only do they concentrate on low hanging fruit, but they do the "low protein, lots of starch, sleep deprivation" thing to break their new recruits. And there have been the usual murders and power struggles. Maybe that's no reason to treat the adherents harshly, but I odn't like them and I wish the criminals among them are caught and justly punished and the others to find their ways out.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Bluemandrew wrote:How would a rainbow camp deal with the fact that shitting on hippies through a megaphone while irresponsibly wasting petroleum products between swigs of tequila is a commonplace activity at the Burn?

If the answer is laugh, yell "I love you", and move right along then I think it's a fine idea. If the answer is to whine and try and argue with people about how "uncool" they're being, you're screwed.

Bluemandrew wrote:How would a rainbow camp deal with the fact that shitting on hippies through a megaphone while irresponsibly wasting petroleum products between swigs of tequila is a commonplace activity at the Burn?

If the answer is laugh, yell "I love you", and move right along then I think it's a fine idea. If the answer is to whine and try and argue with people about how "uncool" they're being, you're screwed.

Also have to keep a damn eye on your kids...

i only do that on M-W-F between 3-6 pm.

And then C.F.M. takes over T-Th-S between 3-6 pm?

Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~pieholePlan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave

Heard of one that did massive structural work, plumbing and whatnot.They were so far out I never found them.

I only saw them once but Death camp is pretty much the only camp Im really not okay with. They just seem to enjoy starting shit with people for nothing more than the fun of it. Calling people they pass on the trail pedophiles, throwing mud, interrupting the silent prayer on the 4th, the aforementioned fireworks incident, etc.
NOT in the spirit of the event.

At nationals last year the camp with the craziest infrastructure I saw was a bunch of russians. They built their whole kitchen out of metal racks they hauled in, instead of using trees. It looked like it wouldnt be worth the work to haul all that in and out over the small mountain in between main gate and their camp. I have to admit it looked pretty badass though.

"The cost of sanity in this society, is a certain levelï»¿ of alienation"

cephalopod wrote: They just seem to enjoy starting shit with people for nothing more than the fun of it. Calling people they pass on the trail pedophiles, throwing mud, interrupting the silent prayer on the 4th, the aforementioned fireworks incident, etc.

Pretty much everything you listed (but throwing mud and fireworks...maybe) will happen regularly

Bluemandrew wrote:How would a rainbow camp deal with the fact that shitting on hippies through a megaphone while irresponsibly wasting petroleum products between swigs of tequila is a commonplace activity at the Burn?

If the answer is laugh, yell "I love you", and move right along then I think it's a fine idea. If the answer is to whine and try and argue with people about how "uncool" they're being, you're screwed.

Also have to keep a damn eye on your kids...

Totally depends on the individuals involved, but someone probably wouldnt be out on the playa in the first place if they had that much of a problem with it. Personally, Id be more likely to yell we love you or just mess with them right back.

At least one rainbow brother Ive met is particularly fond of megaphones:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY[/youtube][/i]

"The cost of sanity in this society, is a certain levelï»¿ of alienation"

I don't even know if I wanna go to Burning Man anymore. I really don't think my nappy-headed, wood-dwelling kind would be welcome there. So I'll stick with the place where I know all I'll hear when I get there is "Welcome Home".

gnossos wrote:You wanna know the main difference between Burning Man and Rainbow?

LOVE.

It's called Family for a reason.

I don't even know if I wanna go to Burning Man anymore. I really don't think my nappy-headed, wood-dwelling kind would be welcome there. So I'll stick with the place where I know all I'll hear when I get there is "Welcome Home".

I love these fuckos on eplaya with all my heart, even the handful I can't stand in person. It isn't gooey love, it is deep down love in spite of flaws and arguments and differences of opinion and philosophies Love. I also know this is a very small slice of the burner population, less than one percent. But I love them. I am closer to most of the folks here than my own blood relatives. If I were even truly in trouble, I know there are folks here who would bend over for me.

Except the ones I don't, and that's okay, because it isn't easy or possible to love every human equally. And that's not what Burning Man is about, and I'm okay with that too.

The Gathering holds no allure for me, I prefer the self reliance principle, our small family group could go out to the desert for a week alone and survive. I like that. I also like sharing, that's just gravy, not an expectation. I like having food I know I am not allergic to, and is safely prepared. I like our LNT ethic and porto-potties, as I believe hand dug latrines are bad for the watershed (they are). Are there things I hate about Burning Man? Sure, but they are not things I would change, because my preferences aren't top priority in the Big Picture. I make my own event, in the context of 50,000 other people making their own event. It is weird and serendipitous and fun and joyful and profound and sometimes just plain silly mindless crap. I love it, I love my burner family. Welcome Home is what I feel all the time.

So you can base your judgments on this sliver of online asshattery, or you can go to the desert and experience what it has to offer. Your choice entirely.

gnossos wrote:You wanna know the main difference between Burning Man and Rainbow?

LOVE.

It's called Family for a reason.

I don't even know if I wanna go to Burning Man anymore. I really don't think my nappy-headed, wood-dwelling kind would be welcome there. So I'll stick with the place where I know all I'll hear when I get there is "Welcome Home".

gnossos wrote:You wanna know the main difference between Burning Man and Rainbow?

LOVE.

It's called Family for a reason.

I don't even know if I wanna go to Burning Man anymore. I really don't think my nappy-headed, wood-dwelling kind would be welcome there. So I'll stick with the place where I know all I'll hear when I get there is "Welcome Home".

AntiM wrote:The Gathering holds no allure for me, I prefer the self reliance principle, our small family group could go out to the desert for a week alone and survive. I like that. I also like sharing, that's just gravy, not an expectation. I like having food I know I am not allergic to, and is safely prepared. I like our LNT ethic and porto-potties, as I believe hand dug latrines are bad for the watershed (they are). Are there things I hate about Burning Man? Sure, but they are not things I would change, because my preferences aren't top priority in the Big Picture. I make my own event, in the context of 50,000 other people making their own event. It is weird and serendipitous and fun and joyful and profound and sometimes just plain silly mindless crap. I love it, I love my burner family. Welcome Home is what I feel all the time.

So you can base your judgments on this sliver of online asshattery, or you can go to the desert and experience what it has to offer. Your choice entirely.

EPLAYA: WE ARE THE 1%!

Allright, allright... I was sleep-deprived and a lil out of it when I wrote that. Looking back that was indeed gooey. I've just always had this crazy dream about going to BM and some of the threads I read just gave me the idea that burners are snooty, particularly about Rainbow Family.

I'm not all about communal kitchens and free handouts for the lazy, there are other reasons gatherings hold a specical place in my heart. For one I was married there, and I couldn't have possibly paid for a better wedding. It was as tribal as it gets: raging fire, nudity, drums and all.

I'm A long time Rainbow Famly, 10yrs Quite active in alot of aspects as well. Having the Gathering in my state this year I spent months activly helping my felow Fam. And because It was close to our Burn clan Most if not all our clan came, many rode in with on Betsy Duck, alot of them (10-12) Were totaly new to our ways. and they took to it like fish to water. And set up a kick ass Tee and cookie kitchen (we baked over 35 doz cookies in the Bus and brought them down dayly) They all stayed down on the medo, I ran back and forth alot, helping with other aspects of the gathering (radio, inf, water supply) and Answered alot of Questions for my people and also the Famly who know me would ask If they could help. good cross polination, and we discovered alot of other Burner/rainbows. alot! we met by Gifting, refusing barter, decodifing need, and radical inclusiveness that tried our nerves. aso saw alot of The famly going even further down the crapy path of Death camp and pirate camp, the prodjects. ect. That Decay has been plauging us for years. we too say last year was better, we also say Next year I'm/we are going to..... and we love eachother. we give straights shit, expecialy if they are being aloof, hording comfort or openly drinking in comon areas. we have crime and deaths. But also Births (Three this year!) and we are all in this together and we have alot of poor. alot of those that use the excuse of not having to justifie asking for everything. And at burn we have folks that don't do mutch pARTicipation, and gift nothing.

And There are Rainbow Snobs, Vegan-food-nazis that are oh so better than you because they (anounced in a loud voice) Have been here since the Snow melted... Dug two shitters a day for WEEKS. blah blah. And they suck ass! They don't share the one thing that could bring them together they don't share the work, they try to one-up each other in a sick display of suffering. all the while being barefoot and dumber than the twigs in thier dreads.

But there are Burners at Rainbow, and Rainbows at The Burn. And most of us really are neither ravers nor hippies. and there are welthy alturistic Famly members that come through with vital help. I like to think of myself in the later group eventhough I am not weathy I have resourses I give freely and 100% and do so for both Burn and Rainbow.

Lovin you!!!!Fuck yer day!!!!!

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri

bumping this thread because a lot of folks are ramping up for summer. I understand that a lot of burners hate on hippies, and a lot of them have little good to say. It probly doesn't come as much of a shock that to be a burner over in Rainbow land is just as scandalous:This years Gathering is In Montana, actual Site TBD. without getting into a comparison of the two, I can say that there are quite a few similarities and just as many differences. I am also working with some Burners and Rainbows on A Burners Kitchen at Rainbow this will be no different than other kitchens that set up in this a temporary City (net work of villages) of 15,000-25,000, no Advertising of BM or anything, just burners working with the existing frame work to help strengthen the community. some rainbows believe the same media stereotypes about Burning man that annoy burners, And there are just as many Media fed stereo types that make Rainbows fell like they are being misrepresented. Both of them take a tremendous amount of mutual self support and Self reliance,as well as Interdependence and selfless actions to happen.

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri

I have an opinion about Rainbow hippy types. I'll keep it to myself... but I will say I have a decent job, own a home, pay my own way, and I even take a shower every day. That may or may not have anything to do with my opinion of Rainbow hippy types. I just thought I'd mention it for context.

GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."Delle: Singularly we may be dysfunctional misfits, but together we're magic.