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Friday, December 5, 2008

A lot has been said on this blog and elsewhere on the Indian Police Service and the Army. As remarked here earlier by a retired flag officer of the Indian Navy, the 6th CPC has been less than honest while visiting history. The historical tables on Page 73 have faced much flak here and elsewhere. Other than IPS, another service having close links with the military has been the Indian Forest Service which forms the triumvirate of ‘All India Services’ alongwith the IAS and IPS. Military and Forest Service Officers have enjoyed close and cordial ties through the ages, maybe it has something to do with the close proximity of the IMA and FRI, I don’t know :-). But here is how the salaries and pensions have compared through the Pay Coms with reference to the rank of Lt Col :(Note : The Selection Grade of the Indian Forest Service is actually a time-scale based grade which is achievable by 100% Forest officers in 13 years of service)

31 comments:

AS ALWAYS YOUR ARGUMENTS AND DATA IS VERY STRONG AND IRREFUTABLE, BUT WE, THE REGULAR VISITORS TO YOUR SITE, ARE STARTING TO LOOSE HOPE. EITHER THIS 'MAZAAK' WITH INDIAN ARMY ENDS SOON OR IT IS GOING TO LEAVE SUCH A BAD AFTERTASTE THAT EVEN IF IT GETS RESOLVED WITH HIGHER THAN EXPECTED RESULTS, IT WOULD HAVE LEFT SUCH A NEGATIVE IMPACT THAT THIS GALLANT INDIAN ARMY WOULD NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. HOPING FOR THE BEST AGAINST ALL HOPE.JAI HIND.

@ Navdeep,Regarding your latest post.1. I think we should not say Selection Grade when referring to IAS/IPS/IFS. Because, this would be used against us whilst comparing with Lt Cols (as civilians would argue, Lt col is no longer a selection grade).

2. We should infact say that 100 % IAS/IPS/IFS are given the so called selection grade in 13 yrears and now post AVSC, 100% service officers would attain Lt Col rank in 13 years. Thus it is imperitive that the parity be maintained for all at 13 th year and there can be no dilution of this demand.

3. The monetray edge that Lt Col maintained in previous pay commissions would translate into MSP.

Enlightening as your posts are, they also appear to flatten hopes of the armed forces (serving and veteran) readers.

Isn't there some way of seeking justice from the Courts?

For a few moments there was an odd word of praise for the armed forces amidst the ruins of south Mumbai, but India is slowly going back to what it does best - forget the armed forces until the next terrorist strike, the next earthquake, the next floods

If it is now proven that the very basis of formulating pay scales (as per SPC) for Armed Forces was WRONG (as incorrectly given on page 73 Table and brought out by U earlier), then should it take this long to undo the mistake! I am amazed!! Surely the redressal could have been given more expediously!

@harry. let me answer u before navdeep does.it has been proved beyond doubt (kind courtsey navdeep) that tables in 6 cpc were wrong and manipulated for downgrading us. but believe me the army pay cell has not yet even told this aspect to the chiefs or the gom or the defence minister. why ? because it will prove that the pay cell was sleeping since march and one person alone, i.e, navdeep has done more research and produced more logic than all brains of army pay cell. i was associated with them in indirect way and i found them more than lacking in their dealings. these are not open people, they ar not experts, just GD soliders who wanted a delhi posting. ask the army hq as to how were these people competent to be posted to pay cells. even now they have been cutting and pasting from navdeep's blog and showing those ideas and information as their own work to senior officers. i've personally seen such documents and they are copies of navdeep blog. army pay cell is most archaic and old fashioned org who try to show secrecy in work to others. all ideas given by others are dumped.

All very well, now pls lets have some bright ideas from you Sir to sort out our "mehkama"?

Anonymous @ 5:45 pm

Well cudn't agree more with you Sir! Our PC Cell gentlemen let us down badly. And most exasperating thing is they now don't even have a clue as to what is happening to our representaion. Surely we need better talent there, even if that means having Maj Gen Surjit Singh (Retd) co-opted as consultant, next time round. And our 7PC cell should be constituted well before the next pay commmission is announced (may be by 2014 or 2015!)

Thanks for all your valuable inputs. But it appears that the people who should be reading these are not doing so. Its over three months now and the matter which was to resolve till Oct End is nowhere in sight. People have infact lost all hopes. I think it is history now and big number of Army Officers have been ditched.

Air Force (Accounts Branch of the IAF) included the MSP when calculating the DA wef 1-1-2006 and paid 40% of the arrears based on this. As per Special AI/NI/AFI "reckonable emoluments" it is there though the MSP is wef 1.9.2008.

CDA objected and has held up audit.

Army and Navy did not include all mentioned in reckonable emoluments when calculating the arrears and pay fixation (because the IDAS does it?)

Now even the post-2006 pensioners will have to wait for CGDA Ms Bulbul Ghosh to take a decision of the new FM-cum-PM to find time to resolve the issue.

I read the following item on MAJ.DHANAPALAN case that's in the Supreme Court.

" In consultation with Min of Law & Justice, a Transfer Petition (No 56/ 2007 under Article 139 A of the Constitution) was filed in the Apex Court by Ministry of Defence on behalf of Union of India for clubbing all Writ Petitions pending in different High Courts. The Hon’ble Supreme Court vide order dated 05 Feb 07 has granted interim stay for further proceedings.

Transfer Petition was heard in Hon’ble Supreme Court on 09 May 08 wherein the Hon'ble Supreme Court directed that these cases are to be clubbed together for further hearing by them. Subsequently, case was heard on 20 Oct 08, wherein the Govt Counsel sought a week time to seek GoI instructions to proceed further. Subsequently, the case was heard on 03 Nov 08, where the counsel for the respondent submitted that cases in which pleading are complete be disposed off. The Hon'ble Court gave two weeks time to file rejoinder, if any, by GOI. Thereafter, the case be listed for final disposal. "

Do You have any information whether a final order has been passed or not?Will any order affect all the personnel or only the people pleading in this case?

Dear Maj Navdeep, any bright ideas on the following -- 13 years service for parity with civil services means that our Training period of 1 year 6 months will never be counted and thus will remain behind civil services, NOT TO FORGET that CPOs too will have that edge over defence.

My Dear, its high time to set even this "one of the BIGGEST anomaly" right!! If it goes to so called anomilies committee then it becomes a NO-HOPER! Rememember out of 42 odd anomalies of 5 PC only 12 have been solved in last..hold ur breath.. more than a DECADE!! This is what our BABUDOM is capable of.

And why not, its high time this "inexplicable disadvantage" to Armed Forces vis-a-vis every other civilian service of Govt, is RECTIFIED! By the way how many amongst us knw this (and I don't intend to create fissures between entries, pls don't get me wrong, Just stating a FACT) only DEs(IMA trg 1.5yr), ex-NDAs(IMA trg 1 yr) and to lesser extent SS (OTA trg 9 Months) officers have this disadvantage!! As trg is counted as service for all Tech Entry, ACC,SL,SCO... officers!

please do not confuse our dedicated army pers and agitate them unnecessarily to enhance your market by combining rank pay as in earlier pay commns and comparing with higher levels in other organised govt cadres

Till now IFS Selec Grade officer was getting 7150 as basic pension and Lt Col 7550 and now after sixth pay commission a Lt Col gets about 17000 and IFS officer and all other NFSG officers jump to 23000. What kind of justice is this sir ? You keep eating money in your orgnztn. don't come here to use your brain on a no-brainer of rank pay.