Somebody being casual, including the context of videogames, means they are not as dedicated and not spending much time with something, mostly a hobby. They engage with it "casually", hence the word. They dont care about it. Easy to look up

Someone grinding double digit hours for tokens for the equivalent of gear that you get in a couple of lockouts in the miniscule of that time for puggable content (heroic or m+, which doesnt even have lockouts) is the opposite of casual friendly. Its bad friendly, in cost of more time, which most casual player claim to have none of it

People should stop using casual as a smokescreen for being bad. Im pretty sure most of method raiders play this game on average more casually then people that claim being casuals and having 30 alts and grinding every day or something like that

There is no several type of casuals, stop inventing own definition. The words you looking is for are bad players

Interesting that the definition you are getting so upset about not everyone agreeing with, is not the one you find when you google it. Could it be that its quite a relative term, and is very subjective?

Just one example:

TOP DEFINITION
Casual Gamer
A person who plays games but aren't competitive. Usually they are just there to be social and have fun but if they end up losing in the game they wouldn't mind. They don't put in a lot of effort to try to win. They may or may not play long hours of games. A casual gamer doesn't place their gaming as a first priority

I don't care what you do, you should do what you enjoy doing. But your statement is factually incorrect.

You say you have LFR ilvl and if you do keys you would need to go to at least +6 or +7. That is not correct. LFR rewards 370. Mythic +2 rewards 375 in the end of dungeon chest and 385 in the weekly cache. If you have LFR gear you would see upgrades even from +2's.

Again, do what you enjoy. If you just don't like mythic+ that's cool, but don't post false information as a justification. Just say you don't like it.

I mean, if i would start doing mythic+ i would want to at least do a +6 +7.
Waiting 1 entire week for a 385 piece...it wouldnt feel like Chirstmas...at all.
It would feel like casual monday

I mean, if i would start doing mythic+ i would want to at least do a +6 +7.
Waiting 1 entire week for a 385 piece...it wouldnt feel like Chirstmas...at all.
It would feel like casual monday

You make zero sense. You have LFR gear but if you do keystones it has to be at least a 6? Well of course it's a bad experience for you. No you won't get into decent groups because you have terrible gear compared to the other people applying for 6's and 7's.

And i swear people either have something against me...are are just outraged there is a positive thread for a change.
Thinking this thread is bait...is nonsense.

Originally Posted by grandgato

Regardless of OP's intent, I do think this will give folks like myself who aren't interested in organized group content a long term progression path.

Looks fun.

No..it is more like I don't get it...or you are naive ...or whatever? You always have had things to strife for outside of raiding. WQ items and ilvs have been constantly upped over the last few months since released. You get ilv 390 or so from WQs now and ilv 400+ from Warfronts. Hell..you can buy mythic +10 gear currently if you just scrap enough azerite epics.

Sure, it is repetitive and "old" content like hell, but what makes you think the new zones won't be the same after a while? We have no clue yet how fast we will acquire the currency needed to get the gear (which starts at 385, so below at what we have now) and then upgrade it to 430

I mean..I am glad if you are seriously happy. This place can do with some positivity.....it is just so out of place, as if what they do with 8.2 is somehow new....

Right now my best items are from LFR. And other people are (on average) walking about with 400-something item level.

In 8.2 i will be on a "better" situation...right?
Because 430 will be much better than the LFR gear of 8.2.

I will be on a MUCH BETTER situation than now...right?

Why are you restricting yourself to LFR, though? That's a pretty serious fallacy if you're comparing current LFR to future Nazjatar, and discounting all the other current methods of obtaining gear.

If that's your line of argument, then what you're saying isn't that it'll be easier to get ilvl - it's that you enjoy doing 8.2 non-LFR content more than current non-LFR content. Which is a totally valid point, of course; but it's a very different one from just going on about how easy it is to get ilvl.

LFR isn't a good source of ilvl right now. It's much easier to just jump in low to medium keys and get much better gear much more quickly. LFR does, however, provide a source for two of the most important categories of gear, Azerite armors and raid trinkets (though the latter may actually be worse than M+ trinkets depending on spec). Anyway, if it comes down to pure ilvl, LFR is a very poor choice from the start - so limiting your options to that is already stacking the deck in favor of your "argument", because it is a false equivocation (LFR now vs. non-LFR in 8.2).

As for the question of "how long will it take new players to get to <insert ilvl cutoff point for whatever content you want to run>", that'll be contingent on how easy it is to farm all that Naz/Mecha catch-up gear - and how prejudices people will be in terms of ilvl. Both are difficult to estimate, but historically, it's probably true that catching up tends to accelerate towards the end of an expansion. In other words, you may be right in some respect - it could be easier for casuals to get to an ilvl that will allow them to do more serious content. Or it could not, depending on how the masses react to the increase. Personally, I don't expect a fundamental paradigm shift. It'll still be reasonably easy for new characters to get into M+/raiding if that is want you want (and I'm talking about characters without support from guild/friends to carry, of course).

A) I imagine it to take some time to get it - seeing that the upgradeable basic gear starts at ilv 385...you cannot buy ilv 430 gear right off the vendor

(20 manapearls to upgrade an item to 400, then another 60 to upgrade to 430. So we look at 80 pearls to get ONE piece of gear to 430...well, 85, because it costs 5 to buy the piece of gear in the first place. Now..there are 9 pieces of gear available apparently and suddenly we look at 765 of those pearls. Do we know how to get them? Maybe there are 5 quests up every day that reward a pearl....suddenly you look at 150+ days of dailies...but it could be any number from 1 per day to 10 per day....because hey...gotta give people also a chance to farm these for alts)...and hell...we are not even ONE YEAR into BfA. There's gotta be something coming after...or..worst case...this is what will have to keep non-raiders busy for the next 12 months...

B) People have been asking / whining / crying / given valuable feedback (take your pick) how hard it is to quit and come back and be left behind when all you want to do is play with your friends *sniff...

Why are you restricting yourself to LFR, though? That's a pretty serious fallacy if you're comparing current LFR to future Nazjatar, and discounting all the other current methods of obtaining gear.

If that's your line of argument, then what you're saying isn't that it'll be easier to get ilvl - it's that you enjoy doing 8.2 non-LFR content more than current non-LFR content. Which is a totally valid point, of course; but it's a very different one from just going on about how easy it is to get ilvl.

LFR isn't a good source of ilvl right now. It's much easier to just jump in low to medium keys and get much better gear much more quickly. LFR does, however, provide a source for two of the most important categories of gear, Azerite armors and raid trinkets (though the latter may actually be worse than M+ trinkets depending on spec). Anyway, if it comes down to pure ilvl, LFR is a very poor choice from the start - so limiting your options to that is already stacking the deck in favor of your "argument", because it is a false equivocation (LFR now vs. non-LFR in 8.2).

As for the question of "how long will it take new players to get to <insert ilvl cutoff point for whatever content you want to run>", that'll be contingent on how easy it is to farm all that Naz/Mecha catch-up gear - and how prejudices people will be in terms of ilvl. Both are difficult to estimate, but historically, it's probably true that catching up tends to accelerate towards the end of an expansion. In other words, you may be right in some respect - it could be easier for casuals to get to an ilvl that will allow them to do more serious content. Or it could not, depending on how the masses react to the increase. Personally, I don't expect a fundamental paradigm shift. It'll still be reasonably easy for new characters to get into M+/raiding if that is want you want (and I'm talking about characters without support from guild/friends to carry, of course).

Thanks for the information.

As to why i limit myself to LFR...its just that Mythic + is a frustrating solo experience with how many fail groups you get.
And for some reason the Warfront quest that rewards ilvl 400 is not happearing to me.
A friend of mine showed me the NPC...and he had no quest for me.

Agreed. I would like to see catch up gear on par or a little less than the prior raid tier for heroic. 15 over mythic seems whack. I have to think it's impacted by their hopes that they'll draw a lot of people back who quit earlier in BfA and they think supercharging the catch-up will help with that.

Agreed. I would like to see catch up gear on par or a little less than the prior raid tier for heroic. 15 over mythic seems whack. I have to think it's impacted by their hopes that they'll draw a lot of people back who quit earlier in BfA and they think supercharging the catch-up will help with that.

One of my raid teams focus on normal with a little heroic. Was full heroic every other tier for years. With the exodus of players and the abundance of high ilvl gear for solo players, keeping a steady roster is hard enough, and talking last night, basically no one has any interest in pushing into heroic, and this 430 stuff was one of the themes brought up by most ppl.

Right or wrong, their logic is with easily accessible solo gear that high, there is no motivation to do heroic. Farm normal, hope for titanforge / warforge, and just enjoy themselves. Like i said, im not saying the logic is 100% correct, im just saying thats how they feel.

Agreed. I would like to see catch up gear on par or a little less than the prior raid tier for heroic. 15 over mythic seems whack. I have to think it's impacted by their hopes that they'll draw a lot of people back who quit earlier in BfA and they think supercharging the catch-up will help with that.

The catch-up component is 385, which is fair. Presumably, the 430 will take some required amount of time to fully upgrade.