OT: Guns, Country and Jesus

Just wanted to vent a little about the recent shootings and this country's love affair with guns. Who the hell needs semiautomatic, military style weapons? How does this love affair with guns jibe with Jesus's teachings of love and non-violence (oh "Christian" nation)? And when has a mass murder at a school, mall or theater really been stopped by a person with a gun? How many more freaking children have to die? And PLEASE, don't ask me to pack heat in my classroom...I would rather die saving the lives of my students than carry a gun on campus.

Thank you, had to vent. So much bullshit being thrown around by gun sheep...ridiculous.

Not saying you should carry a gun, just a thought, if everybody was packing heat and everyone knew it I think those situations would happen much less... Like to the point that it would be suicide... I do not like guns just a point brought up off the record by my towns commissioner.. And I have to say I agree.. That weapon is there only feeling of power.. If everyone had that power then what do they have...

Love and respect for the victims and family

The guns aren't going away they are here so how do we fix the problem???

Quoteif everybody was packing heat and everyone knew it I think those situations would happen much less...

I'm still waiting for someone to provide me with evidence of EVEN ONE SITUATION where a massacre of this nature was prevented (or lessened) by someone (other than the perpetrator) carrying a weapon.....

this scernario is not reasonable. IF there are more guns THEN more people will be shot. This has played out time and time again. You want an example of this? Try 1850 Western United States. I rarely hear people say "oh if it were only like the wild west again". This is the thing about everyone being armed. Fist fights would no longer exist. Seeings as keeping guns out of the hands of felons would be as ridiculous as keeping pencils out of their homes you can forget about that concept. This is how it all plays out....

Someone pulls a gun and starts shooting people. Naturally there is a hysterical panic and people are running in every direction. People start pulling guns but no one knows who the original shooter is so what you have is a bunch of people in a populated area with guns drawn not sure of who is the bad guy and who is not. Seeing as everyone has guns who the F wants to be a cop now? If fact who wants to walk the streets knowing that at any moment a gun battle between unskilled fighters is about to jump off. The unskilled part is important. Just because you shot a dear with Paw doesn't mean you could shoot a person. This is actually a very good thing. I just think this notion that people are gonna pull, be cool as ice and shoot with the accuracy of trained soldiers is nonsense. You have seent the American public, you think that further arming us is a good idea?

I never said it has happened Daniel .. Just saying people would be less likely to pull out a gun and start merkin people if they knew that everyone had a gun..like I said I don't advocate everyone owning a gun.. But why do you think most of the concealed gun carriers wear their pistol on their hips?? Exactly the situations like these

Have you ever witnessed two people face off where one was obviously bigger but the smaller one wouldn't back down because of PRIDE and subsequently caught a beating? Does that change if you add weapons? Or how about if two people disagree but one has a few friends to back him up so the second leaves and recruits MORE friends to settle the dispute then returns? Someone will always have a bigger gun or more guns. It is called an "Arms Race" for a reason, the problem is what are we racing too?
I am not a fan of people who abuse their authority and Police officers may have never helped you or your friends personally but to not acknowledge their value is like inheriting a house and saying that carpenters never did anything for you. I have never been rescued from a burning building but I don't think firefighters are worthless.

Meanwhile in China, a man walks into a schoolyard and stabs 22 kids. Guns arent the problem here ( although not a solution either). Mental defectives will always find a way to hurt others. Do I believe Americans have an unhealthy obsession with guns? @#$% yes they do, and I say that as a gun owner. I just wonder why nobody wants to bring up Americas love affair with violence as a whole? Why are we so quick to blame inatimate objects for the concious actions of humans, why dont we blame the parents, school systems, and mental healthcare systems with the same disqust and fever that we do towards things that make us feel unsecure or uncomfortable( guns, music, homosexuals, etc..). Like I said a man stabbed 22 children in a school yard in China, do they need to put a ban on knives now?

Quoteiriebarto
And ninja police boy don't help nothing!!! Not once in my life has an officer helped me or anyone I know.. Let them burn up

You're joking right? They've helped my local community MULTIPLE times this year alone - where the hell do you live, North Korea? Not saying there aren't bad apples out there too, but hardly the norm. Suppose someone was outside of your home threatening to harm you should you step outside? Who would you call, the Fire Dept? Thought not.

Quoteeast bay herbalist
Like I said a man stabbed 22 children in a school yard in China, do they need to put a ban on knives now?

That's silly logic if I ever heard it. Who would you rather face? A knife wielding man who has to be near you to harm you, or someone armed with an assault rifle that can take you and everyone standing near you down from a football field away? Not rocket science.

The number of firearm related deaths in this country far outweigh those in countries with similar economics, etc. How does arming more people reduce those stats...? Simple - it doesn't, and it never will.

"I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth" - Max Romeo

Also - most of these disturbed folks are suicidal when they commit these atrocities, and simply plan on taking as many people as they can along for the ride: so thinking that armed teachers are going to somehow deter them doesn't really add up. Especially when you factor in teachers accidentally shooting students in tense situations, students accidentally shooting others with teacher owned guns, etc. And to expect teachers to be trained in life threatening situations is ludicris. Should mall-store employees also be armed/trained?

Maybe leveling the playing field by making assault type weapons either illegal, or at the very least much, much harder to obtain is a better path. The background check process is a joke in it's present form, and some guns simply should not be for sale to anyone other than a branch of the armed forces. The NRA crowd would like you to believe that any gun control is bad (slippery slope rhetoric), however it obviously works in other parts of the world, and we are painfully aware of what a lack of regulation leads to.

"I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth" - Max Romeo

Hahahh I wouldn't call the police.. It would take them a week to actually show up.. Actually I don't call the police for anything.. And anytime I see one no matter what I get nervous that they are gonna want to stop me and ask question... No the police don't help around here.. My buddy was beaten by some racist ass cops in one town over thrown in jail and tried to charge him with assault on an officer.. I honestly stand by the fact that the police are not your friends

Unfortunately, this is what you come to find out when you have to deal with em. When you read about them in the paper, they can seem helpful, and sometimes they are. But don't think for a minute that they won't lie, cheat, steal when they decide that YOU are the problem.

speaking of guns and jesus the head of the Southern Baptist Convention was on NPR yesterday and he said that it was his duty as a Christian to help his neighbors, family and friends and therefore to be armed is good because if something terrible happens he can help them, nothing wrong with that.

@Daniel in the University of Texas tower shootings in 1966 I read that armed citizens helped bring down the shooter....
< [en.wikipedia.org];
"Approximately 20 minutes after first shooting from the observation deck, Whitman began to encounter return fire from both the police and other armed citizens."

Strikkly, I see what you're saying with the protection part, but I still have a hard time reconciling gun culture with Jesus's teachings, particularly the turn the other cheek part.

Daniel and Strikkly, a friend sent me a story I was unaware of about a vice principal who stopped more carnage by taking his .45 out of his truck and apprehending the killer until,the police arrived. [en.wikipedia.org]

I still think guns should be kept off campus. I refuse to return to the Wild West.

Thanks for the info Strikkly. I'm kind of amazed at the detail that wiki provides for the entire incident.

But the notion set forth by iriebarto here (and someone else in another post) is that "if citizens were armed" they could stop the carnage BEFORE the police arrived. In the shooting you've referenced, it was 90 minutes before he encountered 'return fire' from citizens and, as you mentioned, the police were already there and it was the police that took him out. Quite honestly, while I'm no cop, I would suspect they would much rather that citizens 'duck and cover' once they are on the scene rather then try and take the law into their own hands.....

all you need to do is go watch the HBO documentary of the Mubai attacks. NUFF of the police had guns and they tried to get the f out of there because they were no match for the guns the people were mowing everyone down with. Some cops tried to shoot but they were killed. What happens when the shooters show up in full body armor the way those cats in So Cal did a few years back. Guns are not the solution they are the problem. You mentioned the 22 kids in China who were stabbed up....they are all still alive. Guns are the only weapons which a child can strike down 5 full grown men in the blink of an eye.

It's pretty simple. Unlike every other tool we use, guns are for killing things. Period. The fewer of them we have the better. The gun addiction in this country blinds many to the simple truth. We should adopt Israels gun laws. Yearly permit and yearly mental exam, for those few who have a good reason to possess a weapon. About 350,000 residents have them.

All I was trying to say is that if everybody had guns then the badman shooting up folks would have to consider the fact that everyone else has guns there for less likely to attempt such a shituation... You're taking away that power they feel when they hold a gun if everyone has that power. Doesn't matter the size of your gun they are all deadly.. Again I don't know how many times I have to say it, I don't think we should all own guns for @#$%& sake.. Just trying to bring another point of view to the table.. But make of it what you will and put words in my mouth like you do.. Much love

Quoteiriebarto
All I was trying to say is that if everybody had guns then the badman shooting up folks would have to consider the fact that everyone else has guns there for less likely to attempt such a shituation... You're taking away that power they feel when they hold a gun if everyone has that power. Doesn't matter the size of your gun they are all deadly.. Again I don't know how many times I have to say it, I don't think we should all own guns for @#$%& sake.. Just trying to bring another point of view to the table.. But make of it what you will and put words in my mouth like you do.. Much love

Right, I'm all for CCW laws. Had a friend here in a state which is CCW-friendly who delivers pizzas; one night three dudes came out of an alley in a not-so-nice part of town, one with a shotgun or rifle. He pulled his CCW and they ran off. In Cali or Chicago or Jersey, he'd be arrested for protecting himself in that situation...