This is Greg Smith (smithabusa) from boostbysmith.com. I signed up as a vendor today. Petrik recently put up a post regarding ECU flashing potential for the K7/K8 GSXR1000's that up until now wasn't possible. The software is available for download for free to check out, and you can build hardware yourself or I make pre-tested hardware that is plug and play, no wire splicing, you just have to insert 2 ecu pins into the ecu connector where empty spots are now, and same on the 8 pin black yosh connector.

This was the post from petrik originally.

Happy 2011 new year for everyone ...

First trials with gixxer ecu proved to be somewhat succesful... for more info please see below...

Fuelmap tuning... including MS0/MS1 maps for e.g. nitrous use
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_fuelmap.jpg

Edit - Lets add that also enginedata is working with gixxers showing all error codes from memory or run time as well as ability to monitor all key sensors when dynoing the bike.
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_enginedata.jpg

Install as for Hayabusa from http://www.ecueditor.com
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_download.jpg

yeemartin

01-03-2011, 07:54 PM

Great info! Where to buy the connector?

Maj750

01-03-2011, 08:10 PM

www.boostbysmith.com

RidgeRacer

01-04-2011, 08:13 AM

Are you going to require to users upload and publicly share their maps in order to unlock features the way you did with the Busa?

PetriK

01-04-2011, 11:00 AM

Are you going to require to users upload and publicly share their maps in order to unlock features the way you did with the Busa?

Hi Marlin - great to see you (the man who hacked the first motorcycle ecu to my knowledge) active around here. I have been wondering where you are as it has been so quiet. We all really must thank you for helping us to see the flashing as it has evolved today and recognize you as the grandfather of ecuhacking.

I am answering on behalf of Greg as he is not really involved with software, he only selling the interfaces (which I have heard works with your K5-6 stuff also.)

Anyway sounds like things have evolved since you last time looked at our software, so lets answer to the question:

There was a licensing enforced map sharing up to v1.5 if I remember correctly. That was removed based on feedback from the user community. Around the same time I started a policy to publish the sourcecode with gnu open freeware licensing. Today we are up to version 2.5 which has a shared open software codebase in bitbucket (so everyone who can visual basic or c-languge) are more than welcome to participate. There are 3 key developers of the ecueditor software now, all of us committed to gnu licensing. The gixxer area is new to us, we just developed that because there is a great demand for turbofuelling module from the local drag racing community. Our team is focusing on niche dragracing tools, not roadracing at all which some of the readers may find disappointing.

Those of you who dont know the history - we worked together with Marlin on gen1 busas and it was early days with gen2 busas our ways departed as he decided not anymore to participate to an open free community based development project. Regardless of that I appreciate his efforts highly as the grand old man of the flashing. I am also looking forward to hear what new he may bring to the market.

shredhead

01-04-2011, 11:36 AM

Does it also works for EURO gsxr 1000 k7-k8(not the same ecu as US)?

If yes, does it also work for the french restricted(78kw) ecu? (restriction is eliminated by cutting one wire(secondary butterflies) from the "french" ecu) ?

PetriK

01-04-2011, 11:53 AM

Does it also works for EURO gsxr 1000 k7-k8(not the same ecu as US)?

If yes, does it also work for the french restricted(78kw) ecu? (restriction is eliminated by cutting one wire(secondary butterflies) from the "french" ecu) ?

I live in EU so I think that answers to the first part of the question. The far as I know and can assume about the french limitations you could derestrict the bike by flashing a german image and put restriction back by flashing the french image.

Havent you gixxer guys used cutting MS wire as the way to derestrict ? Secondaries are useful for low end torque so I would rather do that...

shredhead

01-04-2011, 01:10 PM

thx for the reply.
if we cut the wire(which is responsible for the restriction) from the french ecu,then the sec butterflies are able to open "fully". With the wire installed, the sec butterflies will open just minimal on full throttle.>the euro "full power" ecu is different than the euro "restricted" ecu

PetriK

01-04-2011, 02:39 PM

I live in EU so I think that answers to the first part of the question. The far as I know and can assume about the french limitations you could derestrict the bike by flashing a german image and put restriction back by flashing the french image.

Havent you gixxer guys used cutting MS wire as the way to derestrict ? Secondaries are useful for low end torque so I would rather do that...

When derestricting hayabusas we cut the MS wire which enables the full power maps still leaving STP operational for the low rpm torque. I would guess the same works with gixxers too keeping the bike more crisp at the bottom end but derestricting the top end.

When you make or get the flashing unit you can verify if the MS1 maps are similar between restricted and non restricted models enabling the MS wire derestricting method for better low end.

Mike Edwards

01-04-2011, 02:50 PM

I believe the same programming interface can also be used with the Suzuki SDS software.

Does your circuit diagram use the white eight pin plug or does it connect straight to the ECU? If it's the latter how do you monitor the bike whilst it is running?

http://www.ecueditor.com/interface.jpg

Thanks.

PetriK

01-04-2011, 03:46 PM

What we usually do is that we utilize the yoshbox connector and wire two additional wires between yosh plug and the ecu. That way the harness remains intact and flashing is enabled for a stock ecu just by plugging the harness to the white sds and black yosh connector.

In this link you can see the hayabusa yoshbox wiring as its most commonly used by quite many dyno stations in USA and elsewhere:
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/gen2rewiring.jpg

The software has in addition to normal fuel and ignition map tuning as well as limiters adjustment and top speed limiter removal (which all is now avail for gixxer) also includes (and remember all this is free, all you need is a cable which you can either buy or build yourself):
- Quickshifter module with preloaded autoshifting capability
- Turbofuel module which requires changing the pressure sensor to GM3 bar sensor and an fuel pump upgare, but is known to make over 350hp with otherwise stock fuelsystem (on hayabusas). This has boost pressure adjustment per gear and ramp up per gear, even though we may go for just one rampup rate in in the future for more constant track results.
- Nitrous module which allows setting nitrous shot per gear, ramp up rates per gear etc, known to be good for well over 200hp with all stock fuel system and up to 300+hp with upgraded fuelpump (on hayabusas).
- The newest development is launch control system that we are currently working on sensing the RPM/SEC ramp rate from crankshaft and using ignition advance to set up the limiters.
- Autotuning module, which is just in its simplest form usinig stock components and a laptop or can add basically any wideband for more accurate tuning.

As the software is open source freeware, it only takes someone with a bit of a geek mindset from gixxer community to join us and start compiling these features for gixxers.

By telling about this I hope to find some persons with visual basic and c-language skills with gixxers to join the core team to bring this kind of functionality for gixxers too - if you gixxer guys are interested to get some of this kind of features from the suzuki superbike brothers.

Hope this answers to your questions over pm:s and publicly ...

dbl07

01-04-2011, 10:46 PM

So, this module and the software wil work on the K7/8 1000's and the busas right? I asked because the website references the busas

dbl07

01-04-2011, 11:12 PM

Also by removing the gear limiters which also removes the speed limiter, does it allow the shift indicator light on the K7 Gixxers to display the correct gears. In other words, some TREs cause the gear indicator to read 5th even if the bike is in 6th gear.

PetriK

01-04-2011, 11:35 PM

Also by removing the gear limiters which also removes the speed limiter, does it allow the shift indicator light on the K7 Gixxers to display the correct gears. In other words, some TREs cause the gear indicator to read 5th even if the bike is in 6th gear.

Yes, today Gixxers 1K K7-K8 and busa gen1, gen2 and bking. No intention to go to smaller bikes at least right now. It is possible that we look into K9-K10.

Yes, keeps the gear display of course.

PetriK

01-04-2011, 11:57 PM

I get some questions over pm:s. To share the information I would like to encourage to post the questions here on the forum in public, like:

I am interested in building the interface cable myself but am a little confused by the circuit diagram. The USB end has me guessing a bit with the pin outs as the pin out chart I have does not seem to match??

The USB cable that the D.I.Y. interface is designed for is FTDI USB 232R cable (5 Volts version). The colors in the above schematic match to that cable colors.

gcally

01-06-2011, 02:09 PM

I am very interested in your software and have a couple of quick questions…

What advantages does the Yosh EMPRO ecu and software have over your software and stock ECU?

Can any quick shifter unit hock up to the stock ECU with your software like a Bazzaz or Dynojet unit? (Just sensor on the shifter)

Can your software adjust the engine back torque reducer like the empro?

Thanks Greg

smithabusa

01-06-2011, 02:59 PM

Ill be honest, i dont know much about the yosh stuff, I am a busa guy, and dont recall seeing that type of product for busa.

ECU Flashing allows fuel & ignition tuning, as well as de-restriction currently on the 1000. The quick shifter code hasn't been adopted to the GSXR1000 yet, but you could use any type of switch you wanted, dano's performance like i sell, cordona, dynojet, etc.

Do you have details on adjusting back torque limiter? I am not familiar with this at all.

I am very interested in your software and have a couple of quick questions…

What advantages does the Yosh EMPRO ecu and software have over your software and stock ECU?

Can any quick shifter unit hock up to the stock ECU with your software like a Bazzaz or Dynojet unit? (Just sensor on the shifter)

Can your software adjust the engine back torque reducer like the empro?

Thanks Greg

Mike Edwards

01-06-2011, 05:54 PM

Can your software adjust the engine back torque reducer like the empro?

It does this primarily by controlling the idle speed control valve and secondary butterflies on a closed throttle.

kwaka10r

01-06-2011, 06:17 PM

I am curious as to whether the memory mapping for all GSXr is the same for the location of fuel, ignition, sensor and other tables?

If it is not, are all of the tables in the same relative locations in memory? So once you recognise for example the radiator fan set points, everything else will line up.

PetriK

01-06-2011, 11:33 PM

Seems that many gsx-r1000 ecus share the same location, anyhow e.g. empro is completely different in structure. Adding one ecu for fuel map, ignition map and limiters tuning is about 2-4 hours of work. The real work comes when more advanced features are needed. For Gixxers K7- and newers I have made a commitment to local dragracing community to implement the turbofuel and shifter functionality so that can be expected during now this year before drag racing season starts over here.

About the earlier question - Empro has some RR functionality, like low speed limiter. Ecueditor low speed limiter (for Hayabusas) works when clutch is pulled in, so that would need to be slighly modified. Our angle has so far been dragracing and bring in functionality like 2step RPM limiter and slew rate RPM limiter that the dragracing community enjoys. So its a bit unfair to compare.

Please install the software and check out the hayabusa gen2 version of everything that is possible.

About the idle speed and particularly stp control, there is a lot of maps for finetuning those on the stock ecu.

THE REV

01-06-2011, 11:41 PM

Cheers PetriK for the reply and good info. I look forward to giving this a bash shortly ;)

kwaka10r

01-07-2011, 10:01 AM

So Em Pro is same ECU HW (Nippon Denso) but different SW than Suzuki OEM?

PetriK

01-07-2011, 11:03 AM

So Em Pro is same ECU HW (Nippon Denso) but different SW than Suzuki OEM?

Too early to tell for 100% yet, we could know this in time. To know someone would need to disassemble the empro.bin and then compare the hardware port usage - too timeconsuming for me (most likely) just for the sake of it.

What is in empro we can build into ecueditor.com as well, most likely if there is a need for a feature that ecueditor.com does not yet have.

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 12:48 PM

Too early to tell for 100% yet, we could know this in time. To know someone would need to disassemble the empro.bin and then compare the hardware port usage - too timeconsuming for me (most likely) just for the sake of it.

What is in empro we can build into ecueditor.com as well, most likely if there is a need for a feature that ecueditor.com does not yet have.

EM-PRO has some simple functions like fuel/ignition control,quickshifter pit/limiter and some more advanced ones but you need a race harness to activate them,like the rev-up during (upshifts) <-- sorry I wanted to say downshifts.

The simple ones will be fairly easy to implement into the stock ECU,I doubt about the others though.
Anyway only a few people ( roadracers mostly) are using them so it shouldn't be a problem...

PetriK

01-07-2011, 01:09 PM

What would be the more advanced features ?

Quickshifter we already have, just need to convert that to gixxer. Pit limiter is same as in drag racing 2 step limiter - that will be very easy to implement.

Rev up during upshift or is there more ?

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 01:50 PM

What would be the more advanced features ?

Quickshifter we already have, just need to convert that to gixxer. Pit limiter is same as in drag racing 2 step limiter - that will be very easy to implement.

Rev up during upshift or is there more ?

Sorry I made a mistake :dissapointed . I wanted to say rev-up during downshift. It uses the STP shaft when you downshift to rev-up the bike a bit,the same way racers do it by hand to have a smoother downshift.

You can also use 2 sets of maps for the 6 gears,

eg: 1 map for 1st,2nd,3d,4th and another map for 5th,6th. Or any combination you like.
Or you can have 2 maps via a switch.

You can also see the fueling maps in 3d ( not important,but might help some people).

I may be forgeting something,I don't have the software installed in this P.C...

PetriK

01-07-2011, 02:10 PM

Thanks m8 - I am just curious as one thing that drives me is the challenge itsef.

rev-up during downshift - we could do that by adding advance. As at least busa is not fly by wire (throttle) the limiting factor will be TPS rather than STP - but this is certainly something we must test. There is a STP map that is adjusted according to TPS and RPM so we could make this happen using the standard features of the ecu.

2 set of maps is a standard feature in an ecu or more precisely 3x2 maps, but I rather just keep 2 maps. We call them MS0 and MS1 maps. Basically when you flip a switch you connect the MS1 map on using the MS pin of the ecu. A standard feature of a Suzuki ecu.

The 3D mapping is a pain to implement, would need a good 3rd party visual basic FREE module for that. This would be a very good thing to add if such a module could be find.

A dyno shop nearby (50miles or so) has the empro software installed. A great idea to see it to learn how the racing teams prefer ecu to be tuneable. So far this program has been developed based on:
1) User community feedback on ecuhack forum
2) Feedback from professional dragracers
3) Developer teams own experience on drag and one mile racing

So having a look of other products will certainly not harm us.

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 02:24 PM

Thanks m8 - I am just curious as one thing that drives me is the challenge itsef.

rev-up during downshift - we could do that by adding advance. As at least busa is not fly by wire (throttle) the limiting factor will be TPS rather than STP - but this is certainly something we must test. There is a STP map that is adjusted according to TPS and RPM so we could make this happen using the standard features of the ecu.

2 set of maps is a standard feature in an ecu or more precisely 3x2 maps, but I rather just keep 2 maps. We call them MS0 and MS1 maps. Basically when you flip a switch you connect the MS1 map on using the MS pin of the ecu. A standard feature of a Suzuki ecu.

The 3D mapping is a pain to implement, would need a good 3rd party visual basic FREE module for that. This would be a very good thing to add if such a module could be find.

A dyno shop nearby (50miles or so) has the empro software installed. A great idea to see it to learn how the racing teams prefer ecu to be tuneable. So far this program has been developed based on:
1) User community feedback on ecuhack forum
2) Feedback from professional dragracers
3) Developer teams own experience on drag and one mile racing

So having a look of other products will certainly not harm us.

Send me an email and I can send you the EM-PRO software to check it for yourself!

I know about MS0/MS1 on the suzukis,I've been using romraider for a while and the ecueditor on 2nd GEN Busas...

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 02:31 PM

As far as rev-up during downshifts.

I don't think you could get the same result by adding advance. The EM-PRO uses the secondary shaft and it actually opens the primaries using that little mechanism on the left side of the throttle bodies which is above the idle control.

PetriK

01-07-2011, 03:10 PM

Well we could do the trick by closing the secondaries sooner on engine braking area and then open those when detecting a gear shift. Not a biggie really - a basic parameter in ecu tuning that suzuki ecu already has in a stock configuration. This is already implementable with hayabusa ecu, so its only a matter of some enthusiastic gixxer owners to joint the project to make that kind of feature to be implemented on gixxer subroutines too.

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 03:19 PM

Well we could do the trick by closing the secondaries sooner on engine braking area and then open those when detecting a gear shift. Not a biggie really - a basic parameter in ecu tuning that suzuki ecu already has in a stock configuration. This is already implementable with hayabusa ecu, so its only a matter of some enthusiastic gixxer owners to joint the project to make that kind of feature to be implemented on gixxer subroutines too.

Yes but during engine braking the primaries would still be closed if the rider has the throttle fully closed. I can't understand how opening the secondaries would make the bike to rev,since the primaries are the ones that control the idle... :biggrin

Anyway,give me your email and I'll send you the EM-PRO software.

PetriK

01-07-2011, 03:37 PM

Aha - does that mean that empro kit includes a shaft for secondaries to open the primaries, similiar to Kawi ZX14 ? Otherwise if the high rpm low trottle position will be tuned to closer the STPS sooner than the TPS that way it could work the same way as EMPRO - logically. It would be helpful to see the adjustmen screen to really see the opration. I am interested of this too as I am changing my clutch to a Hays for next season - which means that downshifts will be an issue. Shifter module will handle easily the upshifts.

Idle is controlled by ICS (Idle Control Valve) so that can be used too, but it has its limits.

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 03:51 PM

Aha - does that mean that empro kit includes a shaft for secondaries to open the primaries, similiar to Kawi ZX14 ? Otherwise if the high rpm low trottle position will be tuned to closer the STPS sooner than the TPS that way it could work the same way as EMPRO - logically. It would be helpful to see the adjustmen screen to really see the opration. I am interested of this too as I am changing my clutch to a Hays for next season - which means that downshifts will be an issue. Shifter module will handle easily the upshifts.

Idle is controlled by ICS (Idle Control Valve) so that can be used too, but it has its limits.

Let me go the garage and get some pictures of the throttlebodies,as my English aren't good enough to explain what I'm thinking...

For this function to be used,ISC valve is blocked ( Yoshimura offers a kit for that). Then you put a screw in and you manually adjust the idle just like the previous models or you put the long idle adjust srew from Yoshi again and you can adjust the idle by hand without having to lift the gas tank.

PetriK

01-07-2011, 04:22 PM

Would appreciate some pictures. I have a set of hayabusa throttle bodies on my desk here, they are same as gixxer. In those the plates are so small that even closing the STPS:s you still leave a lot of air to flow so there must be somekind of addition to the mechanism - unless this is just a logical one, closing STPS:s sooner than TPS when engine braking.

This is interesting conversation... maybe something new to be learned here....

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 05:49 PM

Would appreciate some pictures. I have a set of hayabusa throttle bodies on my desk here, they are same as gixxer. In those the plates are so small that even closing the STPS:s you still leave a lot of air to flow so there must be somekind of addition to the mechanism - unless this is just a logical one, closing STPS:s sooner than TPS when engine braking.

This is interesting conversation... maybe something new to be learned here....

Well I wasn't able to get a photo of the K7 throttle bodies,but I'll use a picture from the K5 1000 ( which is almost the same except for the ISC,which in the case you want to use this function is blocked anyway)

The photo includes almost all the info.Again this is a K5 1000 TB,but the K7 has the same principles...This a low resolution photo so it's better to save it and then zoom a little... :biggrin

T.R.E

01-07-2011, 06:06 PM

You use plugs like these

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8122/127469683951daeacf7816c.jpg

to plug the ISC valve like this

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2897/f7645081000.gif

And then you need to replace the non-adjustable screw/nut with this,

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/653/7795080000.jpg

so you can adjust the idle.If you just block the ISC valve the bike won't start due to lack of air...

Mike Edwards

01-07-2011, 07:11 PM

The EM-Pro does not blip the throttle or rev on any gear shift. It can control the secondaries to reduce engine braking but it has no way to do anything else.

PetriK

01-07-2011, 11:56 PM

The EM-Pro does not blip the throttle or rev on any gear shift. It can control the secondaries to reduce engine braking but it has no way to do anything else.

Thanks for the info. I have noticed that ignition map on engine braking area seems to affect greatly to enginebraking. Will be interesting to find out what their strategy for this has been.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/enginebraking.jpg

Not sure if these really will be useful to tune ???

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/stp.jpg

Mike Edwards

01-08-2011, 07:12 AM

With the latest Motec on the K9 we used to rely on using the secondary butterflies and the idle speed control valve to bleed air through at high revs/low throttle openings to reduce engine braking on the track.

I'm not sure why you would want to change anything for the road use.

PetriK

01-08-2011, 07:29 AM

My personal interest in reducing the engine braking comes from Hays clutch. Its an engine RPM driven multistage lockup. I can use that with a normal handclutch when RPM is below engagement RPM, lets say 7000rpm - but above that its a lockup. So reducing engine braking to minimum is very desireable for this kind of clutch setup particularly on street - where the bike will also be used.

So lets try to understand how EMPRO reduces engine braking to implement alike methods into ecueditor - unless the capability is already there.

T.R.E

01-08-2011, 08:02 AM

The EM-Pro does not blip the throttle or rev on any gear shift. It can control the secondaries to reduce engine braking but it has no way to do anything else.

All the things I wrote above,I'm pretty sure I read them in here in an older conversation about the EM-PRO and were written by Tim Radley.

If I'm wrong and misread I'm sorry,I will try to find the thread and post it here... I didn't want to mislead anyone to the wrong direction... :dissapointed

PetriK

01-08-2011, 08:29 AM

Just flashed a gixxer program to busa ecu - and that runs smoothly on desktop testing, with some obvious errorcodes for missing STVA sensor and motor.

Edit - what this means is that its possible that everything works also vice versa, meanting that all the advanced busa functionality could be flashed to gsx-r1000 already today. Worth testing...

smithabusa

01-08-2011, 08:57 AM

very cool stuff petrik :) I am flashing my first gsxr1000 ecu right now using the bench flashing setup i just made up as i dont have a GSXR1000 myself

Both the US and EU have anti-theft that will immobilize the bike but they are different. The "immobilizer" on the EU version has a little antenna around the lock that broadcasts an Radio Frequency (RF) signal. The keys have little RF identification (RFID) chips in them that broadcast their unique number when they detect the query from the ECU. The number in the key needs to match the number in the ECU or the bike won't start.

The US bikes have a resistor in the ignition lock that makes the voltage on one of the power wires coming out of the lock to the ECU a fraction of the battery voltage. The ECU measures this voltage and if the ratio is not correct the bike will not start.

So if you use an EU ECU you will need an RFID lock/harness and the matching key. If you you use the US ECU you will need the lock with the resistor in it. However by wiring the resistor into the harness you could get a US ECU to work on an EU harness.

For what it is worth the only difference between the two ECUs software some of the Secondary throttle and Exhaust servo maps are slightly different.

smithabusa

01-08-2011, 12:26 PM

Everything on the bench is now working :) Flashed the ECU several times this morning, can look at gauge data and fault codes on the bench etc. Nice work Petrik :)

Ryan Schnitz has a GSXR1000 on his dyno that he will be removing the Bazzaz box and mapping with ECU Editor.

Greg

gcally

01-08-2011, 12:59 PM

are you in the USA?

Yep, I am in PA near Pittsburgh. I have a friend that has a dyno who does a lot of local club race bikes. I am sure I can talk him into doing some testing with me.

Thanks Greg

smithabusa

01-08-2011, 01:06 PM

Sounds like Ryan could be on the dyno testing as soon as tomorrow :)

Mike Edwards

01-08-2011, 01:29 PM

32920-21H60 part number, pretty sure its a K7 ECU from what I was told (I dont know much about 1000's)

It could well be a K7 but for the EU the first ECU with the offset connector plugs was found on the K9. Prior to that the two connectors were equally spaced and in the center.

There was a recall in the EU in late 2007 or early 2008 that included a new ECU and idle speed control valve.

Interesting to see some of the internal mapping, etc. differences.

Doca

01-08-2011, 02:19 PM

My UK K7 ECU has offset plugs & looks just like the picture. It has had the recall though & I don't know if they switched the ECU or just re-programmed it.

PetriK

01-08-2011, 03:45 PM

If unsure, ronayers.com microfiche helps... it shows clearly that in K7 model the ecu had offset connectors already (personal opinion when reading their page).
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/48/Year/2007/ModelID/7528/Model/GSXR1000/GroupID/332561/Group/ELECTRICAL_

Prior to that ecu was different type, externally and connectorwise very similar to gen2 hayabusa. Part number of the one I have on the desk is 32920-41G10. With that one we have engine data working, but no intentions to introduce flashing.

kwaka10r

01-08-2011, 04:26 PM

I was told by another ECU flashing company that the fuel maps for US and Euro ECCUs differ slightly as US use oxygenated fuels. Is this right?

Mike Edwards

01-08-2011, 06:22 PM

My UK K7 ECU has offset plugs & looks just like the picture. It has had the recall though & I don't know if they switched the ECU or just re-programmed it.

Looking at the workshop manual it would appear you are correct. That just leaves me rather confused. Oh well...

PetriK

01-09-2011, 01:30 AM

I was told by another ECU flashing company that the fuel maps for US and Euro ECCUs differ slightly as US use oxygenated fuels. Is this right?

It appears so. You can see the difference with ecueditor by first openin the basemap and then setting the other map as a compare map. Then you can see the map differences on fuel and ignition maps enforced by colours and seeing the difference on top panel.

We are not a company, rather a team of bike enthusiastics who just want to make our own bikes faster. All development of ecueditor.com happens in an open source environment, everyone is welcome to join. Software is free as such and interfaces can be built DIY.

gcally

01-09-2011, 09:02 AM

I just downloaded the software. It looks really good!
I am a programmer and use VB and C#. How can I get a copy of the source code and help out on this project?
I really like the deploy method. I use the same method at work to ensure everyone is running the latest version of the software.
What version of Visual Studio are you using? I have access to 2005, 2008 and 2010.

PetriK

01-09-2011, 10:33 AM

Dont know at the looks, old legacy history is still visible there. We use visual Basic 2010 express and plain C for add on modules.

Please feel free to get the source and join us at:
https://bitbucket.org/ecueditor/ecueditor

kwaka10r

01-10-2011, 12:17 AM

Guys I am pretty new to this so the wisdom of your experience would be greatly appreciated.

I have a few bikes but at the moment a k7 750 is my current tuning interest. It appears to me that the 1Ks have been hacked and nutted out.

So I am think it may be better to try and fit a 1000 ECU to my 750 and do the tuning on that ECU?

Most of the sensors are the same. I think the CKP sensors vary on some models (no of pulses per revolution).

Maj750

01-10-2011, 05:56 AM

Should work pretty easy, i have a 01 1k ecu on my 99 750 srad, using the 1k TBs & crank rotor etc but srad crank and cam sensors and it runs well , needs mapping to be perfect but does far better than i first thought it could , just converting it now to a 06 1k so i can map it, but with the progress on the 07 gix maybe i should put the later ecu in ..

smithabusa

01-10-2011, 04:24 PM

Ryan Schnitz was able to make some progress with the GSXR1000 flashing over the weekend.

Its not being tuned yet, there is still a few hp left in it, but this was what the tune looked like before and after at 100% throttle, much cleaner A/F curve :)

Road racers like to remove the left side handle bar switch and bypass the clutch safety switch by grounding the two wires together. This causes the ECU to default to a different ignition map that robs about 10 hp. I think it defaults to the same map when the bike is in neutral.

smithabusa

01-10-2011, 06:14 PM

i dont think quick shifter has been looked at, normally its nice to get some feedback like above showing the most basic functions working, then progress from there.

I would always advise against bypassing clutch switch, causes all sorts of tuning / limiter issues.

if you must remove the clutch switch, then remove the clutch wire going into ecu connector so that ecu never sees clutch being pulled in.

yeemartin

01-10-2011, 06:25 PM

Interesting, so what parameters were adjusted in the reflash? How come the stock AF ratio is so off at the redline?

Ryan Schnitz was able to make some progress with the GSXR1000 flashing over the weekend.

Its not being tuned yet, there is still a few hp left in it, but this was what the tune looked like before and after at 100% throttle, much cleaner A/F curve :)

Ecueditor.com is an user community driven open source software project. Some users act as a active test users whose opinion is highly heard. Some of us do programming work. Some should volunteer for writing documentation. Some manufacture goods that are for sale e.g. Ebay, just searh with name ecueditor.com.

I often hear wishlists of must have features, which are considered but only implemented when someone justifies the idea and demonstrate active contribution to testing work. With ecueditor.com team you get what you put in as your own commitment, fair deal isnt it ?

Everything we have for busa could be ported to ecueditor.com. First things on the list are shifter and boostfuel. On the other hand we just learned that busa firmware runs well inside gixxer ecu. That means that all we have for busa is already avail for a hybrid gixxer ecu.

Currently we are only focusing at supbikes, which to me means 1000cc and upwards. Anyhow if there are interested parties to put in the time, money and effort everything is possible in an open source comunity driven project.

This is very early days for ecueditor.com with gixxers, i am enthusiastic about the prospect to which this kind of co-operation can evolve.

smithabusa

01-10-2011, 06:27 PM

i forget what mods the bike has, exhaust, maybe different stacks etc, thats why its off with no tuning. IAP and TPS fueling was mapped, ignition was not played with yet.

dljat2

01-11-2011, 10:02 AM

So all i need is the (free) software and the cable then right?

smithabusa

01-11-2011, 11:58 AM

So all i need is the (free) software and the cable then right?

Thats correct, and preferably a dyno or datalogger etc to use when tuning to verify results etc.

Greg

gcally

01-11-2011, 01:00 PM

Can you disable the PAIR valve, exhaust servo, and OEM steering damper in the ECU?

yeemartin

01-11-2011, 01:36 PM

Can you disable the PAIR valve, exhaust servo, and OEM steering damper in the ECU?

Could any of the gixxer owners measure PIN66 on the connector end. I am particularly interested what US and what our friends in France would say about this. The difference between MS0 and MS1 maps indicates that this may be used for power limiter on markets where max is 100hp or so.

been following the thread since it was started on the ecu hacking forum about the k5-k6 and before it was deleted back in December on here.

I want to try and build my own cable for the k5-k6, so would I follow this how to
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207938 and run ecueditor or would that not work.

i just want to know for sure as i didnt see that anyone already asked and i dont want to fry or brick anything. Also I am in detroit, mi not sure how far that is from Stockbridge, MI but i would be willing to help or put my bike on a dyno for everyone.

smithabusa

01-11-2011, 03:54 PM

been following the thread since it was started on the ecu hacking forum about the k5-k6 and before it was deleted back in December on here.

I want to try and build my own cable for the k5-k6, so would I follow this how to
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207938 and run ecueditor or would that not work.

i just want to know for sure as i didnt see that anyone already asked and i dont want to fry or brick anything. Also I am in detroit, mi not sure how far that is from Stockbridge, MI but i would be willing to help or put my bike on a dyno for everyone.

For K5-K6 ECU Editor software won't work, it would be using ROM Raider, but I know no details on the definition files for that etc, that would be something to talk with Ridge Racer on.

I work in Allen Park very close to Detroit, and live about 60 miles West out in BFE lol.

Greg

kaoss_11

01-11-2011, 04:06 PM

Yeah allen park isnt far at all. im on 7 mile and woodward if your familiar with the area, I thought it would work for the k5-k6 because of this post. read rufers post from dec 26th

sorry i mis-spoke a little bit. You can look at engine data with ecu editor, but are not able to flash the ecu. Just able to watch what sensors are doing and see FI codes etc.

Greg

kaoss_11

01-11-2011, 07:40 PM

sorry i mis-spoke a little bit. You can look at engine data with ecu editor, but are not able to flash the ecu. Just able to watch what sensors are doing and see FI codes etc.

Greg
Ok well Im sure you already know what I was going to ask next.

WHY?:wtf

smithabusa

01-11-2011, 07:46 PM

Im by far an expert on the software, but do know in order to add a application to ecu editor, is a HUGE undertaking. Its not as simple as Petrik doesn't want 05-06 guys to flash so isn't turning the feature. There is a ton of work that goes into defining all of the tables, testing etc etc etc. I believe the 07-08 gsxr1000 stuff is very similar to the busa, is part of the reason its being added and worked on currently etc.

Greg

Maj750

01-11-2011, 08:58 PM

Also have to consider that the 05-06 stuff has been made available by Ridge Runner with Rom Raider and besides covering already trodden ground there is a lot of respect for others work and not infringing on what is effectively there intellectual property

kaoss_11

01-11-2011, 09:22 PM

Also have to consider that the 05-06 stuff has been made available by Ridge Runner with Rom Raider and besides covering already trodden ground there is a lot of respect for others work and not infringing on what is effectively there intellectual property

all respect given to Ridge Runner and nothing taken from him whats so ever. i have talked to him a few times already and he answered all my questions in a polite and professional way.

So once again I am NOT disrespecting or trying to shit on him however rom raider and ecu editor are two different things. I should be able to choose on what I would like to use, being we practice fair market here in the states and if we take the approach you are suggesting then ecu editor and rom raider are wrong for introducing their software/products to the market because in your words they would be crossing "already trodden ground"

In any event smithabusa thanks for info and answering my questions.

PetriK

01-11-2011, 11:19 PM

Let me re-ask, as this question will otherwise be buried on the chitchat:

Could any of the gixxer owners measure PIN66 on the connector end. I am particularly interested what US and what our friends in France would say about this. The difference between MS0 and MS1 maps indicates that this may be used for power limiter on markets where max is 100hp or so.

Thanks Greg - that confirms that map switching function can be enabled. Looks like Gixxer K7-K8 has a fixed map MS1 for US and northwest europe for full power and MS0 for france etc with limiters on. Making ecu a full power should be easy just swithing one flag. I am intending to make a map switch function to work fully so that you can utilize it for other purposes.

Another more interesting news is that gen2 hayabusa ecu firmware flashed to gixxer K7 ecu seems to function fully. A local chap had flashed the busa ecu firmware to a gixxer ecu in a bike and no errorcodes, just a normally functioning engine. We still need to work a bit on understanding to differences, but it looks like that the busa firmware with already existing turbofuelling as well as nitrous control, traction control and autoshifter are now reality with todays ecueditor.com version to gixxer riders.

Any comments ? Anyone willing to have a go with gen2 busa firmware in the gixxer box for turbo or nitrous engine ?

smithabusa

01-12-2011, 12:10 PM

WOW! That is incredible news, so much testing and proveout has already been done on the gen 2 busa platform this is awesome news!

PetriK

01-12-2011, 12:28 PM

And those of who are worried about the maps, copy paste should work...

Looked at the K7 restriction which is done with STP mapping. Below is an image or restricted and derestricted STP maps. You can clearly see the difference in secondary throttle opening %. So derestricted gixxer uses MS1 maps which means that pin 66 is not grounded when map switching is active. This is just opposite to busa and bking - so lets hope its not too confusing to the tuners.

Also added a feature to enable MS0/MS1 map switching to select between maps. One map could be dry shot nitrous or racegas and other map a standard map - at a flip of a switch. This work now in software but should be tested by the users.

Nice work you guys are awesome! I will do all kinds of track testing this spring and summer. No testing now there is 6” of snow on the ground.

I have a couple of questions about bypassing the clutch switch. There are allot of GSXR racers that bypass the clutch switch by wiring in a relay or using a toggle switch. Basically the ECU only sees the clutch being used when they start the bike not when they are down shifting or riding the bike.

How bad is this? From the little bit of research I have done it looks like a different ignition map is used when the clutch is pulled in. How would this effect downshifting using the clutch and other aspects of tuning if the ECU never sees that the clutch is pulled in other than starting up the bike?

PetriK

01-12-2011, 02:28 PM

Thanks for a positive feedback.

A good question - how does clutch switch affect things inside ecu... first of all the clutch/neutral maps are activated by:
1) When clutch is pulled in
2) When the gear position sensor is on neutral or between the gears.
So the ecu does see the neutral every time a gear is changed even if the clutch switch is wired as described.

What is a neutral map - its actually several maps. Basic maps are fuel and ignition, but additionally amongst other maps there is also a secondary throttle plate opening neutral map when clutch is pulled in.

as a hobbyist drag- and one mile racer I personally dont care much about the clutch, but my opinion may change after installing the rpm activated lockup :-)

for riding fast corners i do not yet see any reason why clutch should be wired differently than what it is in stock. Particularly as stps can be programmed to open more when clutch is pulled in generating a down shifting support effect to momentarily increase the rpm.

... but I really need education from track riders, why is the cluch wired differently for that kind of racing ?

gcally

01-12-2011, 02:38 PM

... but I really need education from track riders, why is the cluch wired differently for that kind of racing ?

Racers like to remove the left handle bar switch (one less thing to fix/replace when you crash).

Thanks for the knowledge! I totally agree that leaving the clutch switch on is a good idea. I am sure Suzuki uses a different map when the clutch is in for some kind of reason.

gcally

01-12-2011, 02:49 PM

Are you guys doing anything with the mode switch on the right handle bar control? Could you store different Ignition, Fuel, and STP maps for each mode?

PetriK

01-12-2011, 03:05 PM

Are you guys doing anything with the mode switch on the right handle bar control? Could you store different Ignition, Fuel, and STP maps for each mode?

yes, its supported to some degree, but for our dragracing bikes we use that signal for two other purposes:
- shift kill signal
- nitrous activation signal

for roadracing we do not need alike shift kill signal so we could continue to use the resistor in GPS wiring to activate the shift kill.

I rather personally prefer MS0 and MS1 mapping for racing than the ABC maps. The ABC maps have a tendency not to be hardwired, rather to be selected on the screen. in racing environment a flip of a switch is better why MS0/MS1 mapping is preferred. MS0/MS1 means putting a switch to ecu pin 66 to select between these two maps.

One of the additional features we could quite easily to put into the gixxer ecueditor.com is 2 step limiter. you could use that as the pit lane limiter if no clutch or alternatively as a start up limiter with clutch. Simple thing like quick shifter I could consider bringing to gixxer, even though that does take some work to be implemented. When saying this, please do remember that this is free opensource project without any financial interests so therefore rather focus on essentials until we get some programmers for gixxers ombord.

bringing the turbo fuel and boost control or nitrous fuel and ramp up rimer takes a bit more time. if we can run those with hayabusa firmware on a gixxer ecu then that would make many things simplier.

Please forgive me coming with dragracing and onemile racing background. I really need to be educated for roadracing requirements which I really appreciate to hear more about.

f2dog

01-12-2011, 03:12 PM

Let me re-ask, as this question will otherwise be buried on the chitchat:

Could any of the gixxer owners measure PIN66 on the connector end. I am particularly interested what US and what our friends in France would say about this. The difference between MS0 and MS1 maps indicates that this may be used for power limiter on markets where max is 100hp or so.

On the low effect model in France (and also sold in Norway), both maps are in the ecu, and there's only to cut one cable out of the ecu(negative),Color MS at pin 66 on the ecu.

This means there are several possibilities at the K7/8 for running more than one map ,triggered with a switch on the mentioned wire.

EDIT.. The Ecu's for 106hp's has different part no's than the full power ecu, so I don't know if the pin 66 does anything at all at the full power ecu..It does at the restricted one.

Doca

01-13-2011, 02:13 AM

Please forgive me coming with dragracing and onemile racing background. I really need to be educated for roadracing requirements which I really appreciate to hear more about.

Hi Petrik,

I've been a long time lurker on the Hacking forum and have been hoping your awesome work would one day be transferred to the Gixxers :).

As a Club racer what I'm interested in is:
Ditching the PC & tuning the ECU. I've seen the PC's die a few times at the track & I'm sure the ECU can deliver better results.
Ditching my standalone quickshifer and using the GPS with the ECU.
Some kind of launching aid. Sometimes getting off the line can be 50% of the battle in an 8 lap club race. I know you guys are working on the 2 step limiter & hopefully this can work for us. The Gixxers are not the easiest to launch also.

I noticed in your software that you unify the ignition maps. I had always thought that the 1st gear map was 'softer' to aid launching? I've noticed that people who have a TRE (unifying 5th gear maps) seem to find it even more difficult.

Us races usually like to remove anything we think is unnecessary. This is why some people unwittingly bypass the clutch switch as it can be a source of problems after a few crashes. Similarly we like to remove the ignition switch as its heavy & a broken key can ruin you day although I allready know your feeling on this.

PetriK

01-13-2011, 08:47 AM

Thanks Doca,

The 2 step limiter should be very easy to build, quickshifter takes a bit more time. With ROA its still early so would like to consider porting that over only after the current anti slip algorithm is proven to be good enough.

On the other hand if the busa firmware already works - isnt that good enough ? The amount of gixxer features will never match everything we have in busa, just because it requires time and personal interest.

I understand removing the wish for removing an ignition key. On the other hand I am very afraid of misuse of that functionality if information is put in open. If there just would be a way to protect from misuse and still get this feature out.

Over the years I have been contacted several times about the "lost key problem". Only one has been legitimate sidecar class world series team, everyone else has backed off when I have asked for a proof of certificate or a nick name on a known board where the credentials could be checked. So not worth fishing m8s.

gcally

01-13-2011, 02:27 PM

In my opinion these are the three most important features a club racer would like to have in an ECU tuning tool. Some of the other features from the busa development would be cool and nice to play with but not as important as these features.

1. Fuel and ignition mapping with the ability to switch between 2 different maps. (Looks like you have done for the GSXR)
Question:
Does the stock GSXR 1000 ignition mapping have different maps for gears 1-3 and 4-6? When adjusting ignition maps using ECU Editor I see that it applies the same map over all gears what map do you use as a base line?

2. Quick shifter with the ability to adjust kills times for each gear. I know you said this requires some development time but I am willing to help make this happen for the GSXR.

3. Ability to adjust RPM limiter (Looks like you have done for the GSXR)
Question:
What happens when the gear limiters are removed?
I see that you can set the RPM limiter but when does the soft limiter activate and when does the hard limiter activate in relation to the RPM number you set it at?

I see that you were able to flash the Busa firmware in the GSXR ECU and the bike seemed to run fine. You guys are the experts but I would feel more comfortable using the OEM GSXR firmware. The Busa firmware might work fine but it might also cause some hidden issues.

PetriK

01-13-2011, 11:48 PM

Thans for the feedback - looks like I will be implementing a native GSXR quickshifter support then as the next "big" thing. I have a slight computer problem due to a disc failure so it will take few days (week or two most likely) before that will happen.

To answer to some of the key points:

For gear based tuning I would rather use secondary throttle openings. With STP map adjustments (avail already for native Gixxer module in ecueditor.com) you can better tune the engine for e.g. out of a corner situation for various gears. STP map tunes STP map and fuel for each gear. The ignition retard works a bit the same. There is a different map for 1st gear then second map for 2-5 gears and third map for the 6th gear. But with STP:s you can make the powercurve almost linear and limit the power e.g. on the first gear meaning that the launches are easier. So my tuning strategy for launches and out of the corners would be STP mapping (which you can try out on the gixxer module in ecueditor.com already)

RPM limiter with gear limiters off means that then you do not have top speed limiter present. Dont remember the gixxer RPM:s but in busa the general fuel limiter was in 11300rpm and gear limiter in 11600, exept for 6th gear for 10050 which effectively was the top speed limiter. Softcut means that for outer cylinders the limiters are applied earlier than to the middle ones. Particularly for turbos with extra fuel computer this is dangerous as with enough boost you just pushed with the power from the middle cylinders the rpms high regardless of softcut on outer cylinders. Then with primary injectors off on outer cyclinders and secondaries filling in fuel enough to ignate the temperateures raised too high and caused engine damage. Thats why there is a switch: Hardcut ignition.

Additionally there is an easy to implement option to have a two step limiter, i.e. when clutch is pulled in an rpm limiter that is lower than normal. You could call this also pit lane limiter, but I would rather use it for launching - but once again, I dont have enough track experience to justify the use of this option.

How does this sound to you ?

Mike Edwards

01-14-2011, 09:18 AM

Given how easy it is to connect an external quickshifter the priority for most racers would be the engine braking control which, form what you have said, is fairly well understood and accessible within the current software.

I am not sure whether the secondary butterflies need extra help form the idle speed control valve but as long as we have enough control to change the engine braking for each gear then I think we are covered.

PetriK

01-14-2011, 09:41 AM

How easy does a racer need the shifter wiring to be ?

How about functionality, is this more or less what it needs or even more needed ?

Below is the wiring for hayabusa using the DSM ecu pin activation. Gixxer quick shifter could be something very alike. The minimum shift rpm allows the foot to preload the shifter and the gear shift takes place at a predetermined rpm - this is more for drag racing use, dont know how handy for roadracing ? Alternatively you could set e.g. 2000rpm to every gear and then you just press the gear lever when ever a shift is needed.

Comments ?

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/hayabusa_dsm_shifter.jpg

gcally

01-14-2011, 11:33 AM

Given how easy it is to connect an external quickshifter the priority for most racers would be the engine braking control which, form what you have said, is fairly well understood and accessible within the current software.

I was looking at cost. A stand alone quick shifter setup cost around $650. You can get the sensor for around $250 and use the OEM ECU which is more reliable and a huge savings for a club racer.

Mike Edwards

01-14-2011, 11:46 AM

I was looking at cost. A stand alone quick shifter setup cost around $650. You can get the sensor for around $250 and use the OEM ECU which is more reliable and a huge savings for a club racer.

Pretty sure the HM Shifters are a lot less than that but unless the ECU is going to be able to trigger on voltage changes or you are going to use an inferior shifter design I think you are wasting your time.

Even with the EM Pro we tried stand along shifters, i.e. used direct interrupts to the coils, and shifters that triggered the ECU. Both riders could tell me which we had installed and both preferred the direct coil interrupt variety.

I think you are directing your resources the wrong way but it is an open source system so...

PetriK

01-14-2011, 12:52 PM

Cool and oh - well, sorry about this - without reading the above comment I already converted the Hayabusa shifter to Gixxer. Its not yet included in the installation package as it needs to be compiled and tested a bit before releasing, but its there waiting for release.

Something I read is interesting - what does "by voltage changes" mean in this context ?

Knowing from experience ecueditor.com quickshifter module works both with cordona (old mechanical and new digital strain gauge type) as well as with powercommander switches so it should be an easy conversion. Cordona strain gauge GP switch with digitally adjusted pressure levels is very similar with HM by the looks.

I can understand the feedback from riders. E.g. with cordona ignition only shift is very different than powercommander shift (and possibly empro) which kills fuel only. The difference with ecueditor.com is that it can be configured for ignition kill only, fuel kill only or both fuel and ignition kill simultaneously giving an user an option to choose the method he/she likes most - including direct coil interrupt only if preferred.

As this feature received diverse feedback, whats unanimous feature should be the next item on the agenda chaps ?

gcally

01-14-2011, 01:15 PM

Pretty sure the HM Shifters are a lot less than that but unless the ECU is going to be able to trigger on voltage changes or you are going to use an inferior shifter design I think you are wasting your time.

Even with the EM Pro we tried stand along shifters, i.e. used direct interrupts to the coils, and shifters that triggered the ECU. Both riders could tell me which we had installed and both preferred the direct coil interrupt variety.

I think you are directing your resources the wrong way but it is an open source system so...

Cool and oh - well, sorry about this - without reading the above comment I already converted the Hayabusa shifter to Gixxer. Its not yet included in the installation package as it needs to be compiled and tested a bit before releasing, but its there waiting for release.

Something I read is interesting - what does "by voltage changes" mean in this context ?

Knowing from experience ecueditor.com quickshifter module works both with cordona (old mechanical and new digital strain gauge type) as well as with powercommander switches so it should be an easy conversion. Cordona strain gauge GP switch with digitally adjusted pressure levels is very similar with HM by the looks.

I can understand the feedback from riders. E.g. with cordona ignition only shift is very different than powercommander shift (and possibly empro) which kills fuel only. The difference with ecueditor.com is that it can be configured for ignition kill only, fuel kill only or both fuel and ignition kill simultaneously giving an user an option to choose the method he/she likes most - including direct coil interrupt only if preferred.

As this feature received diverse feedback, whats unanimous feature should be the next item on the agenda chaps ?

I am confused. You guys know way more than me!
Can you please explain the differences between the methods of quick shifters? What would the difference be between using ECU Editor, Power Commander - Bazzaz, and HM Shifters? I have used both Power Commander and Bazzaz and they work great.

Mike Edwards

01-14-2011, 01:26 PM

There are several different types of shifter. The basic simply closes a circuit, either via a switch or more complicated circuitry, such as the HM strain gauge shifters.

The strain gauge variety in most shifters allow you to set the sensitivity but simply output a digital yes or no to trigger the interrupt. Other strain gauge shifters simply output the voltage and rely on the ECU to understand at what point to trigger the interrupt.

The HM Quickshifter Plus obviously interrupts the coils where as the regular Hm Quickshifter just sends a trigger to the ECU. As far as I am aware when the EM-Pro receives a trigger is also interrupts the spark. I have no idea what the others do.

So my friends, what else would you like to have for native gixxer support in ecueditor.com ? - or is this all it then ?

For a serious drag racer with turbo fuelling/boost control or nitrous rampup module, those features already exists in Hayabusa gen2 version which can be flashed to a gixxer ecu - what I have heard.

Mike Edwards

01-14-2011, 03:56 PM

How much of this can be configured with the ECU in the bike and how much requires the ECU be removed and plugged in on the bench?

How about controlling the Idle Speed Control valve for additional air bleeding to help control engine braking?

PetriK

01-14-2011, 04:02 PM

How much of this can be configured with the ECU in the bike and how much requires the ECU be removed and plugged in on the bench?

All of this can be configured on bike with self built DIY interface or with interface you can find from ebay with search word ecueditor.com. You need one interface for several bikes. For each bike you need a pair of cables to be installed.

How about controlling the Idle Speed Control valve for additional air bleeding to help control engine braking?

Maybe I am missing here something as in busa ISC valve has so minimal effect that I do not understand how that would help engine braking. Have you guys tried tuning the STP:s for engine braking. What I see just by looking from the software there is quite a big closing at 0-16% TPS for < 8400RPM that could be opened up. Is that the area youre looking or something else ?

gcally

01-14-2011, 05:10 PM

I was looking under the Dragtools the Slew rate RPM limiter and 2 step RPM limiter could be used as some kind of launch control for race starts. Can this feature be turned off by sending a signal to the ECU? For example use the Slew rate RPM limiter and 2 step RPM limiter for the race start and then turn it off for the rest of the race by hitting a switch.

How is the O2 sensor handled in the GSXR ECU? Is the computer making map changes on the fly by what the O2 sensor is reading?

gcally

01-14-2011, 05:26 PM

How do Busa owners handle the following and not get ECU error codes? Can these be turned off via ECU Editor?
Removing the pair valve?
Removing the exhaust vlavle?

Mike Edwards

01-14-2011, 05:33 PM

Maybe I am missing here something as in busa ISC valve has so minimal effect that I do not understand how that would help engine braking. Have you guys tried tuning the STP:s for engine braking. What I see just by looking from the software there is quite a big closing at 0-16% TPS for < 8400RPM that could be opened up. Is that the area youre looking or something else ?

With the Motec systems we found using both together gave greater control but perhaps as most people doing this are club racers or track day guys it isn't very high up the priority list.

gcally

01-14-2011, 05:40 PM

I really like the Dynomode Settings for Busa. How hard is this to implement over to the GSXR?

Question on ABC mode.
I am guessing that the B and C mode are adjusting STP maps. Are these separate maps stored that could be adjusted?

When changes are made to the STP map using ECUeditor are those changes also applied to the B and C map?

The reason why I am asking is because I have seen some racers use the B mode in a rain race.

PetriK

01-15-2011, 07:15 AM

Good questions...

How do Busa owners handle the following and not get ECU error codes? Can these be
turned off via ECU Editor?

Removing the pair valve?
- OK, let me add this one, its in next release to be tested.

Removing the exhaust vlavle?
- Let me see, this is different in busa and bking. Added a flag which I think is excva configuration, but as long as my desktop computer builds its disks can not check from bking how I disabled that.

I really like the Dynomode Settings for Busa. How hard is this to implement over to the GSXR?
- Takes some time, just copy and paste type work - please remind me later when you guys start to use this seriously and we can add the feature.

Question on ABC mode.
I am guessing that the B and C mode are adjusting STP maps. Are these separate maps stored that could be adjusted?
- ABC mode affects many maps. My recommendation is to use A map only, but looks like in Gixxer that suzuki disabled a forced A- mode only switch. We may need to add that later. The full ABC mode support is not built into ecueditor, even thoug with letters A/B/C you can see most maps chaging to respective abc maps. The reason why I dislike ABC is the fact that you can not really control which map is used easily. Then when we added nitrous control module we reserved lower button for that purpose. Upper button wire we disconnected for quick shifter. So not really unless you want to keep the bike very stock. For power control the MS0/MS1 swich (grounding or open) wired swich is much better as that can be easily seen and felt in which map is being used.

When changes are made to the STP map using ECUeditor are those changes also applied to the B and C map?
- NO, B and C maps would needed to be tuned separately. Not really a good idea from tuning perspective.

The reason why I am asking is because I have seen some racers use the B mode in a rain race.
- I can understand particularly if the power delivery on a bike is not linear. My opinion is that its better to use STP maps to tune the power delivery linear - i.e. dynocurve to have no peaks and sudden jumps and then control with throttle.

Is the FAN control in gixxer 100/95C as stock ? In busa we have 105/100C. Inside gixxer there is a second set of FAN control numbers at 100/95C too but what I quickly looked at, those are not used. Anyway I added now a switch for 90/95C fan ON/OFF control.

What else... would be needed ?

EDIT - just learned about PK-quickshifter, that sells in europe for around 130euro, so would expect to get this for around 150usd on the other side of the big pond. That looks like a fairly good choise for an average rider who wants to activate the ecueditor.com quickshifter option.

smithabusa

01-15-2011, 12:11 PM

i can make up quick shifter setups for ecu for those who dont like to wire etc. www.boostbysmith.com/quick.html

-Remove the ignition switch/key on EU models. ( This way I can use my EM-PRO and stock ECU without having to remove the airbox to plug/unplug the immo plug etc )

-Adjust the temperature at which the radiator fan turns on/off...

PetriK

01-16-2011, 03:49 AM

-Remove the pair
---> Done for next version

-Remove stock steering damper
---> I dont yet have a test environment up to find the activation code for steering damper

-Remove stock O2 sensor
---> Done for next version

-Remove the secondaries
---> You can do that by just setting 100% in injectorbalance to primaries, but just dont see the point why. Having secondaries adds top power.

-Remove the ignition switch/key on EU models.
---> Can be done but I am very reluctant to release a software including that capability out to public. Maybe I will create a CD which has this feature enabled and just provide it to verified racing teams. Any comments what to do with this one ?

-Adjust the temperature at which the radiator fan turns on/off...
---> Done for next version

The below is what the above mentioned stuff looks like now.

What this project needs is some volunteered testing persons to test each of these newly added functions. I am sure that with this speed the things are developing that there may be typos in the programming that can be found with testing. As soon as we have committed testers I can publish this version out for downloading and testing.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_advsettings.JPG

gixxted

01-16-2011, 04:12 AM

Hi,
just like to say a big thanks for implementing this for the gixxer 1000's,.
as soon as gregs cable arrives i will be able to test these features out.

is it possible to have seperate ignition maps per gear selected ? or have i overlooked it somewhere?
for the quickshift sensor i have been using a micro switch i bought from an electronics store,for over 12 months,rigged it to an adjustable bracket that is in reach of the gear shift knuckle,currently running a pc3 & ign module on my K7 1000,
I dismantled a faulty dynojet sensor & found a small micro switch inside the billett housing,glued in with epoxy resin.
:cheers

PetriK

01-16-2011, 04:44 AM

Excellent !!!

Hi,
is it possible to have seperate ignition maps per gear selected ? or have i overlooked it somewhere?

There is no ignition map per gear in stock ecu, rather 3 different ignition groups. Anyhow youre much better off tuning the secondary throttle opening and related fuelling to make a perfect tune for each gear. That way you can get the power delivery curve very linear and a bike that responds to throttle in a very predictable manner.

Hi,
for the quickshift sensor i have been using a micro switch i bought from an electronics store,for over 12 months,rigged it to an adjustable bracket that is in reach of the gear shift knuckle,currently running a pc3 & ign module on my K7 1000

Would be interested to see the practical implementation, so if you have any piccies - please let us see. I have dismantled a couple too and its a small microsensor there (exept the new cordonas which have a torque sensor), but have not found an easy way to build a low cost and reliable switch.

gixxted

01-16-2011, 05:07 AM

Thanks Petrik,
I will get some pics tomorrow ,in the daylight, 9pm here in aus.
The secondary butterflies were taken out a couple of years ago, still have the motor & sensor, with a piece of shaft in place,
looks like i will have to refit them back in !:thumbup

PetriK

01-16-2011, 06:08 AM

A new version of ecueditor.com is now published with all latest features. THIS IS FOR TESTING ONLY AT THIS STAGE. If any problems, start with file/new and flash that to the bike to bring it back to stock.

gcally

01-16-2011, 08:26 AM

Thanks Petrik!:cheers

I have a question on quick shifter. The "Normal GPS resistor activation" is grayed out and you cannot change it to DSM2. Can you explain the difference between DSM2 and Normal GPS? Why does DSM2 have the ability to adjust kill time for each gear and Normal does not?

gcally

01-16-2011, 08:27 AM

How does data logging work for Busa? Does it log data while riding the bike or only log data when doing dyno testing?

smithabusa

01-16-2011, 08:29 AM

datalogging works if setup and a laptop is connected, so if you want to ride with a laptop on bike can certainly datalog on the road and or track, not the easiest to do, but many of us have done it LOL

Mike Edwards

01-16-2011, 12:32 PM

Would be interested to see the practical implementation, so if you have any piccies - please let us see. I have dismantled a couple too and its a small microsensor there (exept the new cordonas which have a torque sensor), but have not found an easy way to build a low cost and reliable switch.

The Yoshimura quickshifter for the K8 is a bracket that holds the side stand switch in a new position and a small arm that pushes against the switch when the gear lever is moved.

With the Yoshimura loom this would plug straight in although on the K9 they stopped doing this and just had the horn button as the manual trigger instead.

Perhaps the Yoshi bracket and a quick rewire of the standard right hand switchgear would allow you to get a very cheap shifter working...

T.R.E

01-16-2011, 02:15 PM

-Remove the secondaries
---> You can do that by just setting 100% in injectorbalance to primaries, but just dont see the point why. Having secondaries adds top power.

-Remove the ignition switch/key on EU models.
---> Can be done but I am very reluctant to release a software including that capability out to public. Maybe I will create a CD which has this feature enabled and just provide it to verified racing teams. Any comments what to do with this one ?

-Adjust the temperature at which the radiator fan turns on/off...
---> Done for next version

The below is what the above mentioned stuff looks like now.

What this project needs is some volunteered testing persons to test each of these newly added functions. I am sure that with this speed the things are developing that there may be typos in the programming that can be found with testing. As soon as we have committed testers I can publish this version out for downloading and testing.

Sorry,it's my mistake. By removing the secondaries I meant removing the secondary blades and shaft ( STV) not the upper injectors...

As for removing the ignition switch and immobilizer plug on the EU models. I can already do this since I have the EM-PRO ( which has no immo),and can just replace it with a small switch.
But this way if i want to go back to the stock ECU I will have to put the ignition switch back on,and it's a pita... ( Anyway it's not something important,I'm only doing this for simplicity and losing some weight)

And here is the yoshi quickshifter setup... It's very clever and can be used for normal or gpshift since the bracket that presses the switch is on the gearshaft... It's kind of "heavy" to operate but it's for free if you already have the EM-PRO... :biggrin

PS: I'd love to help with testing the new features,the only thing I'd like to be certain about is that I can go back to the stock configuration at any time!

smithabusa

01-16-2011, 02:22 PM

going back to stock is as easy as File, New, Flash ;)

T.R.E

01-16-2011, 02:32 PM

going back to stock is as easy as File, New, Flash ;)

OK,so by doing this,that is exactly the same as it came from the factory? Not maps unifying etc? Nothing? Bone stock?

I'm only asking because it's some time hard to convince people to mess with their bikes if they aren't absolutely sure you can reverse it back to stock...

I already have the Busa interface,a spare harness,spare ECU.Will I need anything else to flash and start testing?

PetriK

01-16-2011, 02:35 PM

Sorry,it's my mistake. By removing the secondaries I meant removing the secondary blades and shaft ( STV) not the upper injectors...

As for removing the ignition switch and immobilizer plug on the EU models. I can already do this since I have the EM-PRO ( which has no immo),and can just replace it with a small switch.
But this way if i want to go back to the stock ECU I will have to put the ignition switch back on,and it's a pita... ( Anyway it's not something important,I'm only doing this for simplicity and losing some weight)

And here is the yoshi quickshifter setup... It's very clever and can be used for normal or gpshift since the bracket that presses the switch is on the gearshaft... It's kind of "heavy" to operate but it's for free if you already have the EM-PRO... :biggrin

PS: I'd love to help with testing the new features,the only thing I'd like to be certain about is that I can go back to the stock configuration at any time!

Someone should start manufacturing that. it looks simple and reliable.

Like said, immo is not an issue, misuse of this information how to overcome it is an issue. You guys can organize a vote or a debate on that matter and I can implement accordingly

Like greg said, fine new/stock and flash and that puts your ecu back to stock configuraition. in the program there is a verify option that you can verify that your ecu is really in stock configuration. using that same verify command you can also download your original ecu content to your hard disk (or usb) and save it in case you want to put back there what was in it.

PetriK

01-16-2011, 02:50 PM

I already have the Busa interface,a spare harness,spare ECU.Will I need anything else to flash and start testing?

Maybe a pair of additional cables to wire up the connectors in case you dont have a spare ecu to yosh terminal cables at hand. You can see those in ebay by using the software: "Bike interface / get interface from ebay."

T.R.E

01-16-2011, 03:06 PM

Maybe a pair of additional cables to wire up the connectors in case you dont have a spare ecu to yosh terminal cables at hand. You can see those in ebay by using the software: "Bike interface / get interface from ebay."

I already have a crimping tool and yoshi plug terminals and a plug...So I will just remove some wires off of the spare harness(non working) and put them there,that's not a problem...

If you think removing the immo function via a simple click through the software will be used for the wrong reasons by some people,then it's not as important. ( Although a friend who high sided his bike and destroyed the ignition switch thinks the exact opposite :lol )

The quickshifters brackets are already available from the Suzuki/Yoshi dealers...

Some people prefer the standard quickshifter rod sensor because if you want to put the bracket on the K7/K8 1000 then you will have to remove the sidestand/ or trim it a bit...

PetriK

01-16-2011, 03:11 PM

If you think removing the immo function via a simple click through the software will be used for the wrong reasons by some people,then it's not as important. ( Although a friend who high sided his bike and destroyed the ignition switch thinks the exact opposite )

Exactly - so how do we overcome that problem ? I have in my mind a special CD that can be only sent to real racing teams with authorization code in it.

T.R.E

01-16-2011, 03:19 PM

Exactly - so how do we overcome that problem ? I have in my mind a special CD that can be only sent to real racing teams with authorization code in it.

I really don't know,and it's a sensitive issue. I remember Ridgeracer saying he would prefer making the life of the few people that want to remove the immo difficult,than making the life of a scumbag easy...

Maybe the CD is a solution,but will require your attention all the time. ( proof etc).

PS: K9 ECU pinout is exacly the same with the K7/K8.
If I find someone willing to donate his bike,I will try to put a flashed K7 ECU on a K9 and see if it starts. :dunno

T.R.E

01-16-2011, 03:55 PM

What about adding a switch like

Secondary butterflies on/off.This way I can remove my STV without having an fi light or the need to keep the sensor and shaft in place...

Mike Edwards

01-16-2011, 04:31 PM

Please, please, please can people get it in to their heads that removing the secondary butterflies gives no more power and screws with your mid range. It only seems to have more power because the power curve is no longer smoothed out by the secondary butterflies. Do not do it, especially on a modern race bike!

There is a perfectly straight forward way to get around the ignition/immobilizer on the K8 but if you don't know it, or can't find someone that does, then for the same reasons as RidgeRacer has outlined I'm not going to make it public.

The K9 is much harder as the ECU will not work without the immobiliser circuitry in place but, again, there are ways to prevent you needing a big heavy ignition mounted on your bike if that is your goal.

I am sure others may disagree but I cannot see any value in trying to work around either the immobiliser or this crazy idea of removing the secondaries. They serve an incredibly useful function, particularly for smoothing out the power curve but also for allow you to control the engine braking.

For any racers out there that haven't looked in to it yet, reducing the engine braking will drop your lap times more than another 10 hp or saving a few pounds here and there.

PetriK

01-16-2011, 10:59 PM

"Yes, the secondary throttles is the best way of tuning the bike for a very linear power curve. In ecueditor.com STP map has both STP opening as well as FUEL reduction maps there - so out of everything else that would be the last way to change my bike.

One could think the STPs as a tool to:
1st and 2nd gear - tuning for maximum possible acceleration without fighting the front
3-5 gear - tuning for most linear throttle response for exiting the corner
6 gear - tuning for best power by adjusting the STP angle.

Its our experience that with highly tuned all motor hayabusas that:
- STP angle is needed for best possible power. Removing STP plates just reduce top power.
- The torque is lower without STP plates, for best mid range torque STPs are needed
- The power curve has peaks without STP plates which makes the engine response to throttle movements somewhat tricky. With STP tuning the power curve can be made very linear without any bumps meaning that the response is always predictable.

This should be in FAQ, can I remove STPS with ecueditor - its ill adviced, something the tuner should only do if he wants to make the bike slower and more difficult to ride. Therefore this feature is not supported on ecueditor.com. Instead full tuning of STPs is supported."

About K9-K10, just Ecutools/verify/read ecu and send the saved bin to me at ecuhacking@tikkari.net.

PetriK

01-17-2011, 04:47 AM

When having lunch a question about enginebraking come to my mind...

Do you guys want to increase the enginebraking or reduce it ? All this talk about taking secondary throttles away means maximum engine braking as air enters the engine which needs to be compressed.

The way the STP map is set today is to have maximum enginebraking. This is as the STP:s are kept fully open allowing air into the engine. Below is what the STP map looks like as stock for gears 2-6. The numbers on the map are % of STP opening.

As you can see the STP opening is a function of RPM and Primary Throttle (TPS) opening. I.e. on the column 80 row 10000 it means that when TPS is 80% or more open and RPM is around 10000 then the STP:s are 93% open.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gixxer/K7_stp.JPG

If one wants to reduce the enginebraking the amount of air going to the engine should be reduced so that the engine does not need to compress the air.

If one would e.g. edit the STP map so that for anything else than FULL throttle opening the STP would restrict the air coming to the engine.

For example reduce the numbers on the table on the are circled with red on the image below. Here as an example if TPS is around 70% and RPM is around 10000 then the secondaries are only 10% open - so no air will go into the engine causing minimal engine braking.

In general the area where the red circle is the are where engine braking takes place - of course depending on the engine charasteristics which can be found on datalogs.

So where does this lead us ???

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gixxer/K7_enginebraking_off.JPG

sportbikeryder

01-17-2011, 12:49 PM

Not sure i am following on teh use of STP for engine braking. I normally experience engine braking with the primary throttle plates closed. Not sure where one would want 70% primary TP and have a desire to ahve only 10% secondary in relation to engine braking.

Is this not the same / similar as having 10% primary TP?

oldfart01

01-17-2011, 01:13 PM

Anyone in the US able to flash the top speed limiter off of the ECU?

Sorry to say most of what you guys are talking about in here is way the hell over my head. :banghead

PetriK

01-17-2011, 01:30 PM

Anyone in the US able to flash the top speed limiter off of the ECU?

Sure - propably any of these shops, there may be more as this is from early days of ecueditor.com: http://www.batchgeo.com/map/?i=610dcd0c391f5115202f094fb87ef7e3

But coming back to the engine braking...

John, as a dragracer I completely share the view - only when throttle is fully closed, but then I remembered one track day where in one corner I pushed a smaller gear in at a speed above 100mph. That was a very interesting experience that led me to straighten the bike and travel way off the track to the gravel. Therefore when talking here about engine braking I started to think that maybe there is more in it - and really would like to hear opinions on a decent or even about an excellent engine braking strategy/theory/practise to understand this more in depth. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned for us drag and top speed racers ?

oldfart01

01-17-2011, 02:55 PM

Sure - propably any of these shops, there may be more as this is from early days of ecueditor.com: http://www.batchgeo.com/map/?i=610dcd0c391f5115202f094fb87ef7e3

?

Thanks :cheers

Mike Edwards

01-17-2011, 03:15 PM

Not sure I can explain it in detail but will have a go...

The main thing that affects the balance and handling of your bike is weight transfer. You control weight transfer with the throttle, the brake and your suspension.

Weight transfer is a good thing in some cases, for example, the bike turns in better when the front is lower which happens as part of the transfer due to braking, etc.

Weight transfer to the rear when you are on the gas helps also as it increases rear end grip, assuming your suspension can cope with that level of load, but it also lifts the front which can lead you to run wide as there isn't enough weight on the front wheel.

In the middle of the corner when you have just come off the brake and are about to get on the gas the bike should be neutral, i.e. level with no weight transfer.

When you get on the gas the weight moves backwards as the rear sits down under the extra load. When you get off the gas the weight moves forward.

There are times when you want to control the weight transfer when you are off the gas. When you are braking in to a corner the weight is transferred to the front yet the engine is dictating how fast the rear can turn which invariably causes it to drag and the rear to squat. In some cases it can even cause the rear to skip or struggle to hold the line when trail braking.

Increasing the air bleed via the secondary throttle bodies and idle speed control valve reduces the engine braking as the pistons aren't pulling against the restriction o closed primaries and secondaries so can move more freely than would otherwise be the case.

This prevents the engine causing drag from the rear wheel so it doesn't squat and the bike has a better nose down balance but keeps the center of gravity higher than it otherwise would which aids turning in.

Ultimately you get more control on the speed and balance of the bike as a result.

PetriK

01-17-2011, 10:06 PM

Increasing the air bleed via the secondary throttle bodies and idle speed control valve reduces the engine braking as the pistons aren't pulling against the restriction o closed primaries and secondaries so can move more freely than would otherwise be the case.

Thanks for engine braking so you want to open the throttles but stop fuel in ? I think I need to have a closer look at gixxer tb:s which are said to have different type stp mechanism than busas.

Mike Edwards

01-18-2011, 05:04 AM

Thanks for engine braking so you want to open the throttles but stop fuel in ? I think I need to have a closer look at gixxer tb:s which are said to have different type stp mechanism than busas.

Yep, no fuel but allowing air to flow through the throttle bodies.

Not 100% sure on the K8 but on the K9 when you close the throttle the injectors no longer put any fuel in. A lot of external fuelling devices rely on the injector voltage to power them and these turn off on a fully closed throttle.

PetriK

01-18-2011, 03:55 PM

Fuel is easy to cut off, but getting enough air through closed throttles is a bit more difficult. We can always open the idle valve, but amount of air coming through that is not necessarily enough.

There is somekind of lever in Yoshi kit that connects the STP to the primary TP:s ?

This is of my personal interest too due to having and possibly installing a multistage lockup/slider which will be more streetable if there is less engine braking.

EDIT - and good news from Ryan (Schnitz) who confirmed that the gixxer native 2 step limiter works (as well as fuelmap adjustments, limiter adjustments and top speed stuff etc..) and for dragracers the gen2fimware flashed to gixxer ecu works but requires some map tuning - meaning that the turbofuelling option we have for busa together with antislip (ROA) and 2step are there for serious drag racers.

Looks like the things are moving gradually and slowly forward now finally...

T.R.E

01-18-2011, 03:57 PM

I got my ECU on the bench and tried to read the bin,it's a K7 EU ecu 32920-21H00.

I tried to read it without selecting a model from the list first,and it denied.

I selected the the K8 1000 and then the verify command,it reads "true" at the start then false until it ends.

Then I selected K7 1000 EU with recall fixes,the same.

The programm the says :

ECU read into memory,but not recognized,please save as DJ0DSE04.bin and send to info@ecueditor.com with notes about the bike and model.

The thing is that when I try to save it it says:

Somehow trying to save a .bin which is not gen1 or gen2.Report this as an error

:dunno:dunno

PetriK

01-18-2011, 04:09 PM

I got my ECU on the bench and tried to read the bin,it's a K7 EU ecu 32920-21H00.

The programm the says :

ECU read into memory,but not recognized,please save as DJ0DSE04.bin and send to info@ecueditor.com with notes about the bike and model.

Thanks, there was a protection not to save unknown .bin:s that is now removed so you should be able to save your map. please send it to me and i add it to the recognized gixxer bins if it is compatible.

This is exactly how the user comunity gets involved, detecting an error or unexpected behaviour which we then fix... and if the new map can be used it gets added as a recognized map by the program.

Thanks, there was a protection not to save unknown .bin:s that is now removed so you should be able to save your map. please send it to me and i add it to the recognized gixxer bins if it is compatible.

This is exactly how the user comunity gets involved, detecting an error or unexpected behaviour which we then fix... and if the new map can be used it gets added as a recognized map by the program.

It's kind of late here so I'll get back at it tomorrow.If I can save a .bin then I will also send you a K9 1000 bin and a K8 1000 EU which is a 32920-21H50 ecu....

:sleep

T.R.E

01-19-2011, 12:19 AM

Should be fixed now in...

Done! I saved it without a problem this morning. Today I will try to get the bins out of a EU K8 1000 32920-21H50 and a K9 1000 also...

Since I can save the original file now I will also be able to test some functions,simple ones first like the 2 step limiter and if this goes well then I will add a quickshifter etc...

I will send you the bins tonight and let you know how everything goes... :cheers

As you can see I'm currenlty not using the Busa interface,but my old K5 flashing harness rewired... :p :biggrin

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7288/0037wg.jpg

gixxted

01-19-2011, 04:25 AM

Hi, flashed my race bike for the 1st time tonight,has 32920-21h60 ecu, bike was an imported wreck from canada.
tested 2 step, engine data, pair valve off, excva off. all working.
just for fun i checked the fuel & ignition maps for the 1000 & gen 2 busa, made some small changes 0 > 10 % to the busa maps & flashed it to the k7 1000, started & ran, only tested to 3000rpm, need to get it to work , so i can set it up properly with the dyno !
awesome work to all involved in getting this up & running !

gixxted

01-19-2011, 04:38 AM

Just a quick question about engine braking, is there pro's & cons with controlling this with the back torque limiting clutch setup of the late model gsxrs ?

Doca

01-19-2011, 04:56 AM

Hi Petrik,

I noticed that on the Gen 1 it is possible to disable the Yoshbox compensation settings but I couldn't find it on the Gen 2 or Gixxer.

Would it be possible to do this on the Gixxer?

Would be nice to start with a 'zero'd' map & be able to compare with others.

Also would be cool if you could read the existing yosh values.

T.R.E

01-19-2011, 05:40 AM

Hi, flashed my race bike for the 1st time tonight,has 32920-21h60 ecu, bike was an imported wreck from canada.
tested 2 step, engine data, pair valve off, excva off. all working.
just for fun i checked the fuel & ignition maps for the 1000 & gen 2 busa, made some small changes 0 > 10 % to the busa maps & flashed it to the k7 1000, started & ran, only tested to 3000rpm, need to get it to work , so i can set it up properly with the dyno !
awesome work to all involved in getting this up & running !

:punk:punk:punk Well done! That saves me the trouble of testing all these,I will check the quickshifter function directly :biggrin

:cheers

PetriK

01-19-2011, 12:10 PM

Hi Petrik,
I noticed that on the Gen 1 it is possible to disable the Yoshbox compensation settings but I couldn't find it on the Gen 2 or Gixxer.
Would it be possible to do this on the Gixxer?
Would be nice to start with a 'zero'd' map & be able to compare with others.
Also would be cool if you could read the existing yosh values.

The yoshbox values are present on the datastream that in hexcode, so seeing what is active is fairly easily possible and beneficial for the tuner. A good suggestion.

Disabling is also possible, but there is not a flag there as such, would mean some modification to the ecu code and some testing. Maybe we leave that until all the major features are tested and stabilized.

EDIT - just remembered that the datastream only shows the current setting when engine is running. No easy way to know what the yosh setting eg. for 100% tps is without turning to the 100% tps. Would require some easy to use interface which would instruct the user to turn throttle to see the values. so this feature too must wait a bit.

alex69974

01-19-2011, 10:46 PM

does this also get rid of the timing retard or a tre still needed?

PetriK

01-19-2011, 11:06 PM

does this also get rid of the timing retard or a tre still needed?

The ignition maps are unified to gears 2-5 map so the bike from ignition point of wiev will be the same as with TRE. Anyway by tuning STP maps you can make the 1st gear to deliver power smoother if you so wish for quicker launches. Gears of course visible on gauges.

How about adding control for a wideband Bosch sensor with datalogging capabilities. I personally don't like closedloop devices ( autotune-or Z-AFM) except Motty's which works well.I prefer to make the changes by hand.
I've seen this for the Busa but I didn't get a chance to test it... :dunno

gcally

01-20-2011, 12:17 AM

The yoshbox values are present on the datastream that in hexcode, so seeing what is active is fairly easily possible and beneficial for the tuner. A good suggestion.

Disabling is also possible, but there is not a flag there as such, would mean some modification to the ecu code and some testing. Maybe we leave that until all the major features are tested and stabilized.

EDIT - just remembered that the datastream only shows the current setting when engine is running. No easy way to know what the yosh setting eg. for 100% tps is without turning to the 100% tps. Would require some easy to use interface which would instruct the user to turn throttle to see the values. so this feature too must wait a bit.

I just found out from the previous owner that my k7 1000 ECU was setup with a Factory Pro Teka tuner. Does anyone know if this device actually changes fuel maps or if it does the same thing as the Yosh box? I am hope that I can remove the changes from the Teka tuner and turn the ECU back to stock with ECU Editor.

T.R.E

01-20-2011, 12:22 AM

I just found out from the previous owner that my k7 1000 ECU was setup with a Factory Pro Teka tuner. Does anyone know if this device actually changes fuel maps or if it does the same thing as the Yosh box? I am hope that I can remove the changes from the Teka tuner and turn the ECU back to stock with ECU Editor.

You can always go a tuner who has a teka and zero all the changes,and start from there until these options are available trhough ecueditor

PetriK

01-20-2011, 09:51 AM

I will still need my wideband though... :biggrin

How about adding control for a wideband Bosch sensor with datalogging capabilities. ...

I've seen this for the Busa but I didn't get a chance to test it... :dunno

Yep - the ecueditor.com autotune module is a datalogger (which creates a suggested map for hand modification/approval) that can be configured for either oem narrowband hox sensor or for wideband sensor through a controller. I hope that the floods in australia are soon over and justin can look into converting the autotune module for gixxer too (now its avail only for gen2 busa and bking).

---

Teka is really the same as Yoshbox, from ecus perspecive - it will know no difference between these two.

gcally

01-20-2011, 10:04 AM

Teka is really the same as Yoshbox, from ecus perspecive - it will know no difference between these two.

My play was to flash my K7 ECU with one of the Stock maps you have listed in ECU Editor.

Will this remove what was changed by the Teka box?

What is my best option to get my ECU back to 100% stock?

Doca

01-20-2011, 10:26 AM

My play was to flash my K7 ECU with one of the Stock maps you have listed in ECU Editor.

Will this remove what was changed by the Teka box?

What is my best option to get my ECU back to 100% stock?

The flashing doesn't alter the Yosh compensation values, they are stored in a different memory on the ECU. At the moment the only way to reset the Yosh values is with a Yoshbox or Teka. As Petrik has said, this might be possible do to in the future with EcuEditor but is a lower priority.

A yoshbox is not mush more than a few resistors & switches & there are schematics online so you could make your own if you were inclined.

yeemartin

01-21-2011, 06:13 PM

Does this "ecueditor.com autotune module" required laptop connected to the ecu while riding?

I'm still quite confusing of how to made my own ecu to usb connection. such as where to buy that mysterious Yosh box connector...

Yep - the ecueditor.com autotune module is a datalogger (which creates a suggested map for hand modification/approval) that can be configured for either oem narrowband hox sensor or for wideband sensor through a controller. I hope that the floods in australia are soon over and justin can look into converting the autotune module for gixxer too (now its avail only for gen2 busa and bking).

---

Teka is really the same as Yoshbox, from ecus perspecive - it will know no difference between these two.

PetriK

01-22-2011, 02:44 AM

Does this "ecueditor.com autotune module" required laptop connected to the ecu while riding?

I'm still quite confusing of how to made my own ecu to usb connection. such as where to buy that mysterious Yosh box connector...

A company called easternbeaver.com sells all kind of connectors including yosh connector.

No-one has put together a proper d.y.i. Instruction set. Inclusing part numbers and sources. Maybe if you list the parts here we/i can help you and we get a proper d.y.i instruction set started here.

Easiest way would be just wire the d.i.y interface directly to ecu harness and leave the cable on there more or less permanently.

Lokster_1000

01-22-2011, 06:54 AM

is this the end of the power commander and bazzaz?

smithabusa

01-22-2011, 06:57 AM

ive got quite a few flashing setups in stock for anyone not wanting to build it themselves :)

PetriK

01-22-2011, 07:07 AM

is this the end of the power commander and bazzaz?

Currenlty ecueditor.com is only supporting gixxer 1K newer models starting from K7-. This is also intended only for superbikes GSX-R1000 and GSX1300R / BK. Powercommander and bazzaz can still be sold and used with smaller gixxer riders.

These K7- ecus can be tuned. More can be added when .bin files received.

32920-21H00
32920-21H50
32920-21H60

Please always read/verify your ecu .bin and store it in a safe place if you at any point want to bring back to stock.

If unsure just use 21H60 and set your area setting in advanced settings screen. (EU=AU)

T.R.E

01-22-2011, 02:08 PM

Currenlty ecueditor.com is only supporting gixxer 1K newer models starting from K7-. This is also intended only for superbikes GSX-R1000 and GSX1300R / BK. Powercommander and bazzaz can still be sold and used with smaller gixxer riders.

These K7- ecus can be tuned. More can be added when .bin files received.

32920-21H00
32920-21H50
32920-21H60

Please always read/verify your ecu .bin and store it in a safe place if you at any point want to bring back to stock.

If unsure just use 21H60 and set your area setting in advanced settings screen. (EU=AU)

Hi Petrik,thanks for adding the 21H00 to the ECU list... :cheers

However,I need to have the advanced settings enabled for the 21H00,so I can use all the features...
Reason is I tried to flash an EU K7 1000 with the 21H50 and I have problem with the ISC valve.

It idles at 2,000 rpm when cold and after a while it throws C_40 code... Something is not compatible between the 2... :dunno

So I ended up flashing it with the 21H00,and only changed the rev limiter,gear limiters removed and quickshifter ( I didn't test it) and everything returned to normal...

PetriK

01-22-2011, 02:16 PM

Ok - changed a bit the programming logic. Now its very easy to add new models, exept for the advanced settings which is more manual work.

I may be able to do something for ics with 21H50/60 or add some of the advanced settings to 21H00.

What should be the priorities ?

Have you tried resetting ics on the engine data screen ? Usually ics problems are due to connecting ics too soon after turning the engine off. There is even a mentioning of this in the busa workshop manual with a note that reset helps.

T.R.E

01-22-2011, 02:42 PM

Ok - changed a bit the programming logic. Now its very easy to add new models, exept for the advanced settings which is more manual work.

I may be able to do something for ics with 21H50/60 or add some of the advanced settings to 21H00.

What should be the priorities ?

Have you tried resetting ics on the engine data screen ? Usually ics problems are due to connecting ics too soon after turning the engine off. There is even a mentioning of this in the busa workshop manual with a note that reset helps.

I'm bench flashing and I don't have a wire connected to K-Line,which i believe is for the gauge data... So no,I haven't test reseting the ICS valve via the gauge screen...

As far as priotities,I don't mind flashing the K7 with 21H00 and K8 with 21H50 as long as I can get back to stock with no problems...

I send also send you the EMPRO software to check it out. It would be nice if I could use different maps for higher gears like I do with the EMPRO so I can use leaner maps for 1st 2nd 3d 4th and a bit reacher for the 5th & 6th...

Having all the abilities within the EMPRO ( and many more) while you can still keep the fan etc would be great...

Mike Edwards

01-22-2011, 02:54 PM

Have you tried resetting ics on the engine data screen ? Usually ics problems are due to connecting ics too soon after turning the engine off. There is even a mentioning of this in the busa workshop manual with a note that reset helps.

The minute you start messing with the ISC using the stock ECU you are bound to have to reset it at least once to get it functioning properly again. The software just isn't smart enough to work out where it is supposed to be.

PetriK

01-22-2011, 03:21 PM

In case the ecueditor.com reset ics button on engine data screen does not help ... or if you want to get rid of ics valve completely. (we used this when installed a busa ecu to kawasaki which did not have any ics valve at all.)

I hope this may works for some of you... also the ones with ONLY benchflashing.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_ics.JPG

T.R.E

01-22-2011, 03:30 PM

I hope this may help some of you... with ONLY benchflashing.

I'm not sure if the bike starts with the ISC disabled. I tried it with the EM-PRO and it wouldn't start. I had to raise it manually and as you know it doesn't have a "bolt" there...

http://shop.yoshimura-jp.com/en/product/syousai.php?id=1609

The only reason I'm bench flashing is because it's easier to just remove the ECU than plug 2 cables,plus it takes a lot of time to read/verify the ecu,and with all the lights turn on etc it drains the battery...

But I personally like that option,it brings the ECU one step closer to the EMPRO...I prefer the long idle adjustment screw

T.R.E

01-22-2011, 03:39 PM

Now that I remembered. Please add a button for switching on/off the steering damper...That's something a lot of people replace with aftermarket and they either plug a resistor or leave the valve on the bike...

It's better to disable it the factory way!

T.R.E

01-22-2011, 04:06 PM

The minute you start messing with the ISC using the stock ECU you are bound to have to reset it at least once to get it functioning properly again. The software just isn't smart enough to work out where it is supposed to be.

So if I reset it while the bike is idling at 2,000 rpm,it's going to be normal?

Mike Edwards

01-22-2011, 06:18 PM

So if I reset it while the bike is idling at 2,000 rpm,it's going to be normal?

I have no idea how it will respond at that engine speed.

gixxted

01-22-2011, 07:23 PM

Hi
Would it be possible to incorporate a steering dampner off button, just like the pair, hox, etc ?

for when running an after market dampner, like ohlins.
i still have the oem solenoid plugged in my harness on my racebike, would just be something else i could eliminate.

thanks Blair.

PetriK

01-22-2011, 07:37 PM

So if I reset it while the bike is idling at 2,000 rpm,it's going to be normal?

Yes it shoud, particularly with irregular idle. The idle reset on engine data screen will reset the idle motor back to the stock setting. The stock settings may have been lost if it has been disconnected too soon after turning power off.

The ICS ON/OFF allows the ICS taken completely off and idle can be adjusted with a long idle screw.

PetriK

01-22-2011, 07:41 PM

Hi
Would it be possible to incorporate a steering dampner off button, just like the pair, hox, etc ?

for when running an after market dampner, like ohlins.
i still have the oem solenoid plugged in my harness on my racebike, would just be something else i could eliminate.

thanks Blair.

Yes, but fist I need to get a proper gixxer harness to test to which port/variable it is connected. Therefore can not implement this at this stage.

Anyway as an user community product, any of the users could get this going:
With engine active can go on the engnine data screen to debug mode and then by moving the steering damper to see which number does it change at the bottom of the screen (after the screen is made taller to see all the hex codes at the bottom of the page). A screenshot of the page with the changed numbers circled would be best option to find out where the steering dampener is affecting.

gcally

01-22-2011, 08:54 PM

I send also send you the EMPRO software to check it out. It would be nice if I could use different maps for higher gears like I do with the EMPRO so I can use leaner maps for 1st 2nd 3d 4th and a bit reacher for the 5th & 6th...

Having all the abilities within the EMPRO ( and many more) while you can still keep the fan etc would be great...

Doesn’t the EMPRO software have some kind of traction control for the 07-08 GSXR 1000?

Mike Edwards

01-23-2011, 02:43 AM

Doesn’t the EMPRO software have some kind of traction control for the 07-08 GSXR 1000?

Switchable three levels of a crude anti-spin system. Unless you have the 'factory' software in which case you can configure it a fair bit more...

PetriK

01-23-2011, 03:18 AM

Switchable three levels of a crude anti-spin system. Unless you have the 'factory' software in which case you can configure it a fair bit more...

If this means that you would like the ecueditor.com traction control to be available for gixxers too - then I would like to urge you to test it using gen2 busa firmware in your gixxer. As the ecueditor.com traction control has been developed primarly for drag racing type acceleration - just to see if there are any user preferences and differences in use.

T.R.E

01-23-2011, 03:52 AM

Yes, but fist I need to get a proper gixxer harness to test to which port/variable it is connected. Therefore can not implement this at this stage.

Anyway as an user community product, any of the users could get this going:
With engine active can go on the engnine data screen to debug mode and then by moving the steering damper to see which number does it change at the bottom of the screen (after the screen is made taller to see all the hex codes at the bottom of the page). A screenshot of the page with the changed numbers circled would be best option to find out where the steering dampener is affecting.

Ι need to make a bike flashing harness then... :biggrin

Is there any chance I can hook up a stock damper on my bench flashing harness and move it by hand? Will this work? :dunno

PetriK

01-23-2011, 04:17 AM

I would just hookup the harness to those pins where it should be. Dont matter if everything else is not there and then see what changes when:
1) damper is moved (this is the input variable, most important)
2) each of the damper wires is disconnected (these are the errorcodes, makes process easier)

There is a suggestion for new interface to the SDS engine data signal converter (ISO/KWP to TTL) from Boerd in germany. http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/interface_boerd.jpg I am thinking of trying this out soon too.

gixxted

01-23-2011, 05:25 AM

I think with the steering dampner, it works off speed sensor, faster you are going more dampening required.
think it works by resticting oil flow past the solenoid, will have to read up on it, has been a couple of years since i last looked at it.
a resistor can be fitted to the wiring so the ecu gets a reading ,
also i have tried different weight oils in the oem dampner, works ok, but nowhere near as good as my ohlins adjustable.

Doca

01-23-2011, 07:57 AM

I had a look at the steering damper also. I don't think there is any input from the solenoid to the ecu other than fault diagnostic (voltage out of range?)

I think the ecu up's the damping rate based on speed so moving the steering damper won't change any of the debugging values.

I have another question, my AFR value on the engine data screen is 0 with the engine running. Is this just for wideband sensing or should it show a value for the standard HO2 sensor?

Doca

01-23-2011, 08:32 AM

I tried removing the steering damper solenoid and it didn't give any error code?

I've flashed the 2 step & quickshifter and on the paddock stands in the garage they both work as expected :)

The clutch switch will need to be modified a little as there's not much 'drive' in the 'clutch on' area of the switch.

smithabusa

01-23-2011, 08:36 AM

any possibility the solenoid removed doesn't show a fault code until you are actually at speed? Not sure how the logic for its works, but maybe at zero speed it doesn't do anything and wont show the fault code?

PetriK

01-23-2011, 10:56 AM

I had a look at the steering damper also. I don't think there is any input from the solenoid to the ecu other than fault diagnostic (voltage out of range?)

I think the ecu up's the damping rate based on speed so moving the steering damper won't change any of the debugging values.

I have another question, my AFR value on the engine data screen is 0 with the engine running. Is this just for wideband sensing or should it show a value for the standard HO2 sensor?

Thanks - the steering dampener is really uncharted territory for me, must learn more of it before able to comment.

The HOX sensor should show a value if it is operating correctly and if Yosh settings are not active (i.e. in stock settings) and if there are no errorcodes present and if HOX is enabled. ... and of course the engine should not run overly rich or lean, the detection range for stock sensor is quite narrow - also engine should be in normal operating temperature etc. In the service manual there are tests how to test the hox (heated oxygen) sensor.

Could you please check the above conditions and then give feedback...

pistones

01-23-2011, 11:26 AM

On the secondary throttle valve, how would it affect general use? As in just riding around? And is it really all so important for this use when the '99-'07 Busa did not have any and worked very well? And if it is turbocharged, would it matter? As the low end and response would be subdued?
Maybe the '7/8 1K works better with the plates and the older Busa does not? And the '08?
Tanx
G

Mike Edwards

01-23-2011, 12:09 PM

any possibility the solenoid removed doesn't show a fault code until you are actually at speed?

Yep, that's exactly how it works.

PetriK

01-23-2011, 12:47 PM

And the '08?
Tanx
G

The 08 busa works definately better with secondary thorttle plates, have tested on dyno with a few bikes. Of course there may be exceptions, but we have tested quite a few samples in dyno with and without plates with varying lenght of stacks and airbox sizes.

PetriK

01-24-2011, 05:40 PM

What i heard from locals is that the FI error is detected immediately when a disconnected steering dampener is detected. Above it says no error was presentedmafter disconnecting the error.

Additionally i hear a wish to reduce the steering dampened activation speed to be some 50km/h lower to make it better.

I started to read the firmware disassembled code, but it will take some time and quiet moments to discover how it operates - so any additional info would be helpful.

So whats the bottomline ?

T.R.E

01-24-2011, 07:43 PM

What i heard from locals is that the FI error is detected immediately when a disconnected steering dampener is detected. Above it says no error was presentedmafter disconnecting the error.

Additionally i hear a wish to reduce the steering dampened activation speed to be some 50km/h lower to make it better.

I started to read the firmware disassembled code, but it will take some time and quiet moments to discover how it operates - so any additional info would be helpful.

So whats the bottomline ?

Yes when you disconnect the steering damper you get the SD code as soon as you start the bike...

Bottom line is we need the 21H00 advanced features enabled and then on/off switch for the damper...

I think anybody who races a K7 changes his steering damper... :shifty

PetriK

01-25-2011, 01:11 AM

Yes when you disconnect the steering damper you get the SD code as soon as you start the bike...

Bottom line is we need the 21H00 advanced features enabled and then on/off switch for the

:shifty

Have you tried the 21h50/60 as adviced earlier ? I do not see any point just putting an earlier firmware in if there is a newer available.

T.R.E

01-25-2011, 05:54 AM

Have you tried the 21h50/60 as adviced earlier ? I do not see any point just putting an earlier firmware in if there is a newer available.

Yes I did and both bikes had the same problem,idling at 2,000 rpm and then throw C_40 code...

Because some people just send me their ECU and I can only flash the ECU on the bench,I can't send them back and not be sure if it works,so I don't enable the 2 step limiter on those...
On top of that,immobilizer won't let me put their ECU on my bike to test if everything is working or reset the ICS if needed,so I'm stuck with the 21H00 for the EU K7 1000's until you unlock the advanced features for it... :scratch

In the next days I will test a K8 1000 EU 21H50 and let you know if everything works fine....

PetriK

01-25-2011, 07:38 AM

So are you saying that ics disable does not work ???? Lets dig deeper into that then.

The advanced settings is not about unlocking something, its quite a few hours work to get thos addresses digged out. So really want to move in to 21h50/60 to enable more features being developed into that and make it as a base map for all flashing.

Would like to remind that this is an open source freeware product, all work is done volunteerly because of someones personal interest. What i hope to happen is that we attract some programmers and hackers from gixxer community to help developing it to the direction which gixxer community appreciates.

PetriK

01-25-2011, 07:57 AM

Addition - we know from experience that bench flashing triggers up various errors in the ecu memory that show on the DTC list on the engine data screen. Therefore one should always clear the errorcodes on a bike to really clear the DTC history in ecu memory. I am not sure if it is like this with K5-K6, but for newer gixxers and gen2 busas this is the case anyway.

gixxted

01-25-2011, 04:04 PM

successfully flashed gen2 busa15H.bin into my k7100021H60.bin
today on dyno, did rough mapping of 50>100% throttle, still a little rich, low 12's afr, but produced results similar to std ecu with pc3 & ign module.
although had the rpm limit set at 13500 in busa bin, was hitting limiter at 13170rpm, showing on engine data log screen & dyno . now need some time to sort out all these other features to try.
Big thanks to all those involved in creating this software.
:cheers

yeemartin

01-26-2011, 12:11 AM

I have some questions, but please bear with me I'm totally noob. Does each gear has their own fuel mapping? How do you map each gears? Do you just use same one for all gears? how about secondary throttle and ignition mapping? do you just use the busa maps? Thx!

successfully flashed gen2 busa15H.bin into my k7100021H60.bin
today on dyno, did rough mapping of 50>100% throttle, still a little rich, low 12's afr, but produced results similar to std ecu with pc3 & ign module.
although had the rpm limit set at 13500 in busa bin, was hitting limiter at 13170rpm, showing on engine data log screen & dyno . now need some time to sort out all these other features to try.
Big thanks to all those involved in creating this software.
:cheers

gixxted

01-26-2011, 01:52 AM

Warning !
do not flash busa .bin into the k7 1000 & expect it to work ! :nono
the fuel mapping is way off ,super rich ! stick with the H2150/60 .bin, much easier.
ignition mapping,yes
stp mapping, yes
fuel mapping, yes, 0>10%iat map & tps10>100%
ability to switch between 2 different maps, when set up correctly.
there is more, but you will need to download & have a look for yourself.
:burnout

Doca

01-26-2011, 03:18 AM

Warning !
do not flash busa .bin into the k7 1000 & expect it to work ! :nono
the fuel mapping is way off ,super rich ! stick with the H2150/60 .bin, much easier.
ignition mapping,yes
stp mapping, yes
fuel mapping, yes, 0>10%iat map & tps10>100%
ability to switch between 2 different maps, when set up correctly.
there is more, but you will need to download & have a look for yourself.
:burnout

Even though it is super rich to start, did you manage to get a good mapping in the end?

If so would you be prepared to share your bin file to give us a better starting point?

Ta.

gixxted

01-26-2011, 04:14 AM

I basically copied all the k7 mapping numbers over manually.
Would be easier to work out a way to copy the k7 mapping, both fuel & ignition over to the gen 2 .bin as a starting point.
you need access to a dyno with afr or at least a wide band afr logger to start playing with the mapping,

My engine combination is nowhere near stock, & i run oxygeneted fuel with a higher fuel pressure, therefore making my mapping useless to anyone else.
:cheers:cheers

Doca

01-26-2011, 04:39 AM

I basically copied all the k7 mapping numbers over manually.
Would be easier to work out a way to copy the k7 mapping, both fuel & ignition over to the gen 2 .bin as a starting point.
you need access to a dyno with afr or at least a wide band afr logger to start playing with the mapping,

My engine combination is nowhere near stock, & i run oxygeneted fuel with a higher fuel pressure, therefore making my mapping useless to anyone else.
:cheers:cheers

You can copy & paste an entire map table with ctrl C (select all the values first) and paste (ctrl V) into a map of a different different bin file. Works in excel too.

Petrik, the Gen 2 hayabusa map has the minimum cell value set at 5 & the std gixer map has values down to 3.

Doca

01-26-2011, 06:18 AM

Petrik, I'd prefer to start with the std, per gear ignition maps but would like to have the features of the gen 2 busa (mainly yosh comp off, wideband & datalogging).
Would it be possible to build a gen2 bin with the std gixxers per gear ignition maps (even if they are not editable without unifying).

Mike Edwards

01-26-2011, 06:56 AM

What i heard from locals is that the FI error is detected immediately when a disconnected steering dampener is detected. Above it says no error was presentedmafter disconnecting the error.

Yes when you disconnect the steering damper you get the SD code as soon as you start the bike...

The steering damper is only operated at speed. In the two K7 and four K8 race bikes we had this was the case. There was no fault code just by unplugging the standard damper. It would only happen at speed, often over 10k rpm in 5th gear.

Doca

01-26-2011, 07:22 AM

The steering damper is only operated at speed. In the two K7 and four K8 race bikes we had this was the case. There was no fault code just by unplugging the standard damper. It would only happen at speed, often over 10k rpm in 5th gear.

I tried to make the fault. Got the bike up to about 50 mph without the sensor & no fault. That was as fast as I was prepared to go on the paddock stands in the garage :suicide

PetriK

01-26-2011, 10:56 AM

Petrik, I'd prefer to start with the std, per gear ignition maps but would like to have the features of the gen 2 busa (mainly yosh comp off, wideband & datalogging).
Would it be possible to build a gen2 bin with the std gixxers per gear ignition maps (even if they are not editable without unifying).

In gixxer ecu there is NO per gear ignition maps as such. Inside ecu there is three ignition groups. One for 1st gear, one for 6th gear and rest in one group. Ecueditor just uses gear 2-5 map for all gears. If you want to reduce the power on 1st gear youre better off with tuning with STP openings and related fuel maps.

PetriK

01-26-2011, 10:59 AM

I have some questions, but please bear with me I'm totally noob. Does each gear has their own fuel mapping? How do you map each gears? Do you just use same one for all gears? how about secondary throttle and ignition mapping? do you just use the busa maps? Thx!

Each gear has a STP opening / fuelling map. This is my preferred way of tuning per gear. Ignition mapping described on previous message above.

PetriK

01-26-2011, 11:13 AM

although had the rpm limit set at 13500 in busa bin, was hitting limiter at 13170rpm
:cheers

Please send me the .bin (info@ecueditor.com) and i will have a look into this what it says on my desktop workbench. I guess that busa has never been ran this high rpm.

PetriK

01-26-2011, 11:15 AM

I tried to make the fault. Got the bike up to about 50 mph without the sensor & no fault. That was as fast as I was prepared to go on the paddock stands in the garage :suicide

OK - sounds like we need to find which is the speed byte on the enginedata stream to be able to track how steering dampener operates.

EDIT - when you guys find a way to trigger the errorcode, found some settings that can be tested which shall disable the errorcode - and if succesful in that it looks like there is a map that we can use to adjust the steering dampener stiffness ;-)

T.R.E

01-26-2011, 04:50 PM

The steering damper is only operated at speed. In the two K7 and four K8 race bikes we had this was the case. There was no fault code just by unplugging the standard damper. It would only happen at speed, often over 10k rpm in 5th gear.

I know what my bike does,and that is if I disconnect the steering damper plug it throws sd on the dash...

Don't know about yours :dunno

gixxted

01-27-2011, 02:24 AM

I unplugged the steering dampner on my k7,turned the ignition to on, & within 10 seconds, the letters sd were flashing alternately with the engine temperature.
no fi light was illuminated.

Mike Edwards

01-27-2011, 12:28 PM

Blimey, three different implementations of Steering Damper fault codes on the same model bikes.

Hope nobody is still working with the early K7 ECU that was part of a factory update (along with the ISC).

PetriK

01-27-2011, 12:35 PM

This is good news, we can now add a button that could disable SD warning on the screen... added to the latest ecueditor.com Version: 2.5.1.43.

please feel free to test, this is just first shot to this issue without testing or validation at my end. I just have found something that very much looks like steering dampener control with a three different bytes that sets parts of it on or off. Now setting SD deactive means that these bytes witten with values 0x00 which should mean deactive.

Also all other advanced testings could be retested. I have started to make gixxer advanced settings more easier portable between versions for e.g. early K7 (21H00) and K9. Not yet fully done that, but most easy parts are now convertable.

PetriK

01-27-2011, 12:44 PM

Blimey, three different implementations of Steering Damper fault codes on the same model bikes.

Hope nobody is still working with the early K7 ECU that was part of a factory update (along with the ISC).

What I have seen suzuki gixxer ecus now, they have been not so good in managing the ecu id. There are different firmware versions with same ecu id. (By ecu id I mean the DJ... DH ... DT.... type number that is stored at the end of the firmware and which is visible on ecueditor main screen.)

Would be interested to know what was the ecu & ics update - as it may not have been offered in all countries to all buyers ?

yeemartin

01-27-2011, 01:32 PM

Thanks, PetriK. I heard that K7/K8's best ignition timing is the one on 6th gear, other gears' timing are retarded at lower RPM w/ partial throttle opening. Could you explain why ecueditor chooses 2-5 map for all the gears? Thx!

In gixxer ecu there is NO per gear ignition maps as such. Inside ecu there is three ignition groups. One for 1st gear, one for 6th gear and rest in one group. Ecueditor just uses gear 2-5 map for all gears. If you want to reduce the power on 1st gear youre better off with tuning with STP openings and related fuel maps.

PetriK

01-27-2011, 01:51 PM

With busa I made a mistake of choosing 6th gear map for all gears which led to knocking with more tuned engines (like mine) on lower gears and small throttle openings. After that I always lean on caution as a starting point as it was a pain to change with many users out there.

There are many flashers who dont have the experience or equipent for thorough testing. So if someone wants to use any other more aggressive maps he can easily put any type of ignition map there and flash it in.

gixxted

01-27-2011, 02:29 PM

Blimey, three different implementations of Steering Damper fault codes on the same model bikes.

Hope nobody is still working with the early K7 ECU that was part of a factory update (along with the ISC).

I am working with the updated ECU & ISC, fitted them myself, have the factory recall letter here somewhere, but don't have the original ECU or ISC as suzuki australia wanted those parts back.

Mike Edwards

01-27-2011, 03:05 PM

I have started to make gixxer advanced settings more easier portable between versions for e.g. early K7 (21H00) and K9. Not yet fully done that, but most easy parts are now convertable.

Does this mean you have been able to make some progress with the K9 ECU?

T.R.E

01-28-2011, 05:37 AM

I flashed a Busa last night,and it has 2 issues... I'm posting this here because some people are already flashing the Busa bins into the K7 ECUs...

1) A mode stays on the screen all the time after the bike starts... And I can't change the modes at all.

2) Quickshifter is working only until 4th gear,it won't cut 4th--> 5th or 5th--> to 6th.

I have done:

1) Rev limiter to 12,000 rpm, gear limiters removed

2) Dragtools enabled,but slew rate retard is set to 0 ( is there a way to activate the quicklaunch without the slew rate? It's mostly bolt on mods on this Busa and it doesn't need it :dunno )

3) Quickshifter enabled,kill time set to 60ms and I'm using the sidestand switch of a K7 1000 for sensor with a custom bracket ( it has a diode in it).

4) Fuel map adjusted

PetriK

01-28-2011, 10:02 AM

1) A mode stays on the screen all the time after the bike starts... And I can't change the modes at all.

This is intentional. In busa we use DSM mode wires for other purposes. Additionally from tuners perspective its best to focus on A mode only and use MS0/MS1 maps. Alternatively you would need to tune each mode separately, A,B,C and most customers are not willing to pay the extra needed for this. As many of the busas are used for dragracin and top speed racing this would lead into configuration where e.g. with turbos or nitrous and accidentially activating B-mode would mean engine failure.

2) Quickshifter is working only until 4th gear,it won't cut 4th--> 5th or 5th--> to 6th.

Is it with DSM activation or with resistor activation? If resistor activation was used the bike may have a problem with your GPS sensor, something that is very common with Busas. If it is with DSM activation, please increase the gear specific time and check the minimum activation RPM. The recommendation is to use DSM activation when ever possible - as that is way more reliable and also allows using autoshifting at a predetermined RPM with preloading the gearshifter lever. (I know thats not yet available for gixxer, the software code is already there - but configuring the use for gixxer would need more time).

is there a way to activate the quicklaunch without the slew rate? It's mostly bolt on mods on this Busa and it doesn't need it

We can look into dragtools module if you guys want to use this without slew rate, or just set slew rate high enough so that it does not interfere ...

Well from users perspective if you do not like this featureset after having tried it out, then you can always return to 21H00 or 21H50/60 with a reflash.

PetriK

01-28-2011, 10:06 AM

Does this mean you have been able to make some progress with the K9 ECU?

Not yet - still waiting for the .bin. There are a couple of guys working on installing an interface to K9 and K11.

In the meanwhile just preparing the software architechture to accept similar ecus faster. Today each module needs to be rewritten, in the new architecture you just add the key addresses for any new gixxer model as long as ecu firmare is close enough to each other.

T.R.E

01-29-2011, 02:25 AM

Is it with DSM activation or with resistor activation? If resistor activation was used the bike may have a problem with your GPS sensor, something that is very common with Busas. If it is with DSM activation, please increase the gear specific time and check the minimum activation RPM. The recommendation is to use DSM activation when ever possible - as that is way more reliable and also allows using autoshifting at a predetermined RPM with preloading the gearshifter lever. (I know thats not yet available for gixxer, the software code is already there - but configuring the use for gixxer would need more time).

We can look into dragtools module if you guys want to use this without slew rate, or just set slew rate high enough so that it does not interfere ...

Thanks,it's all clear to me now...

I'm using resistor activation but with the sidestand switch of a K7 1000 instead of a normal quickshift sensor,I measured it and the sidestand switch adds some resistance too,so this is probably why it didn't cut in higher gears...

And yes,I'd prefer launch control to be activated separately... :biggrin

PetriK

01-29-2011, 02:40 AM

There is also the low rpm threshold which may be hitted with higher gears.

The fan on of temperature is now adjustable for gixxer. Anyone with steering dampener, would appreciate testing feedback on the SD settings ability to disable the errorcode. If we can disable the errorcode then the stock steering dampener map could be made adjustable.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_fantemp.JPG

T.R.E

01-29-2011, 04:32 AM

Is a 12V/0,5A power supply enough for bench flashing? Or do I need a bigger one like 12V/1,5 A or 3 A?

I'm currnetly using my desktop's PSU but I want something I can take with me all the time... :burnout

My home made bench flash power supplies are 12v .6 and .5 amp and work fine for flashing, but have not powered any extras for testing
made my own as Gregs 110v are not suitable on our 240v

PetriK

01-29-2011, 06:35 AM

Standalone Ecu runs <300mA when nothing is connected.

When you desktop flash various errorcodes become visible inside ecu as you are running ecu without sensors. Those should not harm the operations, but are clearly visible - so its good practise to reset the errorcodes using ecueditor.com enginedata screen clear DTCs button when the ecu is back in the bike.

T.R.E

01-29-2011, 12:36 PM

My home made bench flash power supplies are 12v .6 and .5 amp and work fine for flashing, but have not powered any extras for testing
made my own as Gregs 110v are not suitable on our 240v

Ι don't want to power any extras either,so I should be fine... Thanks :cheers:cheers

@ Petrik usually I'm bench flashing ECU's from people that don't live near me so I don't have the luxury to delete the error codes,but it doesn't creates any problems so I'm fine with that... :biggrin

T.R.E

01-29-2011, 03:34 PM

One other feature some people will find very usefull is the MIL! Those who use aftermarket gauges ( like AIM MXL,translogic or Motec) or those who are using the gixxer engines on cars etc...

It's very good to know when you have a malfunction! One thing less to worry about! :cheers

Mike Edwards

01-29-2011, 06:41 PM

You might wan to elaborate on what a MIL actually is and how will it tell you anything new if the ECU doesn't know you have aftermarket gauges?

PetriK

01-30-2011, 02:02 AM

MIL LED is purely a function (currently only in gen2 code) that allows to user to use non standard gauge cluster with the engine. A super bright LED is connected to the gaugedata wire and it becomes active if there is a FI code present. The actual FI code can then be read from the ecu memory either when engine is running or earlier codes in debug mode which have existed in the past.

MIL LED module is mainly used with racing bikes with a non standard gauge cluster or with cars which use hayabusa and now gixxer engines. We use the MIL LED in a prostreet ZX-14 with AIM gauges and Busa ECU running the kawi engine.

Btw. Gixxer and Busa gauge clusters both seem to be switchable where as Bking has slightly different gaugedata protocol.

1 thing i did notice , is that in the stp maps, rpm scale only go's up to 11,600.
havn't really checked them before, is this normal ?

still have to connect up shift kill, probably do that some time this week.

:cheers

T.R.E

01-30-2011, 09:58 AM

MIL LED is purely a function (currently only in gen2 code) that allows to user to use non standard gauge cluster with the engine. A super bright LED is connected to the gaugedata wire and it becomes active if there is a FI code present. The actual FI code can then be read from the ecu memory either when engine is running or earlier codes in debug mode which have existed in the past.

MIL LED module is mainly used with racing bikes with a non standard gauge cluster or with cars which use hayabusa and now gixxer engines. We use the MIL LED in a prostreet ZX-14 with AIM gauges and Busa ECU running the kawi engine.

Btw. Gixxer and Busa gauge clusters both seem to be switchable where as Bking has slightly different gaugedata protocol.

I'm using AIM MXL strada gauges,and the black/green wire is used for communication between the ECU and the gauge. ( CAN+ ,gauge gets info from ECU about ECT,gear & mode ABC )
Is there any other wire we could use as a MIL? I've got several unused pins in my ECU... If that's not possible then I could just configure my gears manually through analog,channel 8,and also configure the ECT sensor manually based on its resistance as coolant heats,so I could free up the black/green wire and use it as a warning light ( AIM MXL has 6 programable alarm leds )

My only option right now is to have Motty convert a JSD-Pro device to act as an FI warning module,but that would require me to hook up my stock speedo back to read the actual code...

You might wan to elaborate on what a MIL actually is and how will it tell you anything new if the ECU doesn't know you have aftermarket gauges?

Oh and something else. With the EM-PRO you can raise the rev-limit up to 14,000 rpm. But you can also set the stock shiftlight up to that limit.

It would be nice if we could do that with the stock ECU,I mean set the shift light as high as the rpm limiter goes... :cheers

PetriK

01-30-2011, 10:30 AM

I'm using AIM MXL strada gauges,and the black/green wire is used for communication between the ECU and the gauge. ( CAN+ ,gauge gets info from ECU about ECT,gear & mode ABC )

Thanks - i did not know that the suzuki ecu supports aim gauges as stock. I have looked the package that ecu can send, but never realized it being used by aim. Well the good news is that we can set any value AIM reads to above alert limit and that way let a led on AIM to lit.

T.R.E

01-30-2011, 11:04 AM

Thanks - i did not know that the suzuki ecu supports aim gauges as stock. I have looked the package that ecu can send, but never realized it being used by aim. Well the good news is that we can set any value AIM reads to above alert limit and that way let a led on AIM to lit.

I believe it's the other way around,AIM supports the Suzuki ECU... MXL is able to receive information through the black/green wire and display it on screen without tapping directly to the sensors,thus leaving more analog inputs available for other functions...

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1165/mxlconfig2.jpg

If you look at the bottom where it says ECU_1,ECU_2,ECU_9,these are the functions that the MXL gets straight from the ECU without tapping the sensors...

PetriK

01-30-2011, 11:21 AM

Still remember talking to AIM and asking them to implement this for 2 years ago - just now to realize its there. We have been using AIM in the racing bikes for quite a few years.

There are two ways AIM gets this signal - either reading the standard byte stream to gaugecluster or using the can type signal which allows aim to receive e.g. this additional information:

I can only see bitflag type ECU variables there - what are the other channels 3-8 ?

AIM is probably using the CAN bus,since the pin the black/green wire goes is labeled CAN+.

Since this is a strada version

*channel 3 is used for turning lights indication
*channel 4 is used for high beam indication

channels 5-8 are analog inputs which I'm not using at the moment...

PetriK

01-30-2011, 02:52 PM

AIM is probably using the CAN bus,since the pin the black/green wire goes is labeled CAN+.

It is highly unlikely that its real can protocol. In the user manual AIM says it can connect to serial data where one wire goes to GND and other to serial data signal source, which I believe is the case here. Nothing inside ecu tells about real can being used.

What I gather from the info is that AIM reads the Suzuki gaugedata protocol and utilizes the bitflags delivered in there. There are more advanced data packages available, but unutilized based on information available today.

Anyway its important info that AIM can utilize directly some of the bitflags, maybe we could co-operate with them and make more information (like posted earlier) available using AIM gauges. I really like the dataloggin option on these gauges.

T.R.E

01-30-2011, 03:04 PM

It is highly unlikely that its real can protocol. In the user manual AIM says it can connect to serial data where one wire goes to GND and other to serial data signal source, which I believe is the case here. Nothing inside ecu tells about real can being used.

What I gather from the info is that AIM reads the Suzuki gaugedata protocol and utilizes the bitflags delivered in there. There are more advanced data packages available, but unutilized based on information available today.

Anyway its important info that AIM can utilize directly some of the bitflags, maybe we could co-operate with them and make more information (like posted earlier) available using AIM gauges. I really like the dataloggin option on these gauges.

I really can't help you more on this,except telling you that the black wire is connected to a pin labeled CAN+, and there is another one labeled CAN- which is probably grounded,so your quess is probably correct...

Would appreciate feedback if it works as inteded - test this one with extreme caution and as always at your own risk.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_sd.JPG

T.R.E

01-31-2011, 12:39 PM

What do you think of this kind of feature... ? Completely useless ?

Would appreciate feedback if it works as inteded - test this one with extreme caution and as always at your own risk.

That's one thing you can't test on a dyno... :suicide :lol:lol

stocker

02-01-2011, 09:59 AM

great job guy's.....:punk

King Kenny

02-02-2011, 04:00 AM

I think its a great mod Petrik & potentially very useful. I see that you have allowed the user to vary the SD response only with speed. It may be beneficial to add some sort of rate of throttle change programming loop (similar to acelerator pump algorithms) so that the damper stiffen up under sudden acceleration (when you need it too basically) like when coming out of a slow corner.

I'm sure that Honda utilise somthing like this with their HESD electronic SD.

What do you think of this kind of feature... ? Completely useless ?

Would appreciate feedback if it works as inteded - test this one with extreme caution and as always at your own risk.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gixxer/K7_sd.JPG

gixxted

02-02-2011, 05:25 AM

I have tried a lot of different viscosity oils in the std dampner, ended up running 80/90 diff oil, is pretty much perfect for my streetbike,& street riding,
but it still isn't stiff enough for my drag race bike.
so by running a map to maximum settings,above 40kmh, leave low settings below that speed for parking & low speed manouverability,
it should give you a reasonable dampening feel.
:twitch
Adjust at your own risk !

PetriK

02-02-2011, 03:08 PM

Some progress...

BIG THANKS TO OUR FRIENDS IN GREECE, we now have a K9 .bin. At first sight its similar enough to say that we can expect ecueditor.com to work on K9 models soon too. Took a quick look at the rpm limiters and those are more similar to busa than K7-8 gixxer.

Now the hunting for K10-K11 starts, and lets hope its same as K9 to make things easier...

so the question for near term future is - should we now start a thread on K9 board to follow up the development or move some of this discussion to more general gixxer forum ?

Maj750

02-02-2011, 03:52 PM

Request an electronics and tuning section ?
once things like editor or the Bazzaz etc have there use across different models there is not much point in having the info segregated

stocker

02-02-2011, 04:20 PM

Some progress...

Now the hunting for K10-K11 starts, and lets hope its same as K9 to make things easier...

so the question for near term future is - should we now start a thread on K9 board to follow up the development or move some of this discussion to more general gixxer forum ?

i will check with my local racers this week for availability of copying newer .bin's....on the discussion part, how about some type of ecuflashing forum for all makes and modles that is online...?....currently just suzuki, and kawai's can be flashed...?...keep all the chit-chat in on place, and the technical in another...?

PetriK

02-02-2011, 04:27 PM

Request an electronics and tuning section ?
once things like editor or the Bazzaz etc have there use across different models there is not much point in having the info segregated

Something in that direction. The policy on this board is so strict that I do not know what would be the right direction ?