"He opened the car door to let the dog escape but an officer jumped out and pulled a gun on the dog, he says.

"I threw myself on my dog and said, 'You have to shoot me before you kill him,'" Milad says. A group of neighbors came out to defend him and, he says, eventually the police backed off from killing or confiscating the dog. But they suspended Milad's driver's license for six months and took his car for three months."

If this was the U.S. and he had some drugs, the dog would be dead, he'd be in jail, and the car would be sold.

This is a very daily-showian indictment of Fox News of you, Dose. You know - high on emotionalism, very low on fact.

I'm referring in specific to the fox news "You decide" polls. They are absolutely notorious for the leading-answers of the poll "options". I dare say that even the most hardcore fox-news fan would admit it.

In the old days, when kids ran barefoot everywhere (and even today, when kids run barefoot through the backyard grass), uncollected dog waste is a great vector for all sorts of nasty parasites.

Anybody who thinks living with dogs is way cool, doesn't have the chore of cleaning up after the dog. And doesn't mourn the loss of a clean patch of grass to lie in and watch the clouds go by. And can't go out and pick the dandelions in the grass for the supper salad.

Well, the Gemara talks about dogs being unclean, and I believe there are several strands of Judaism which do not tolerate dogs (is this an Arab thing? Do all desert lands hate dogs?). But I'm willing to give Judaism a bit of slack on this.

My bottom line, still, is the same as Lyssa - I love dogs and don't trust anyone who doesn't. Had to put mine to sleep the other week, and now am waiting for two puppies to arrive sometime next month.

andinista, I have a dog, and can lie in the back yard, and pick the greens in the lawn to eat (although not now -- too bitter). Cleaning up after a dog isn't much of a chore. It just means you are a good neighbor.

andinista said...In the old days, when kids ran barefoot everywhere (and even today, when kids run barefoot through the backyard grass), uncollected dog waste is a great vector for all sorts of nasty parasites.

Anybody who thinks living with dogs is way cool, doesn't have the chore of cleaning up after the dog. And doesn't mourn the loss of a clean patch of grass to lie in and watch the clouds go by. And can't go out and pick the dandelions in the grass for the supper salad.

7/19/11 10:35 AM

How about buying a patch of land and putting a fence around it and lie on your own grass and pick your own dandelions.

Pigs I understand…dogs…I don’t. Really if you can’t have a dog, or if dogs are “unclean” and therefore suspect, I mean how can anyone, in good conscience, be Muslim? We are talking about DOGS here people….I can think of far more PEOPLE that I’d rather have as neighbors, than I can think of dogs I’d hate to live next door to.

We just got two puppies! They are a beagle/hound/terrier mix and have brought much joy to our household. I respect other cultures, but it is frankly difficult to understand a culture that is suspicious of dogs.

It's worth noting that feral dogs will eat humans, both alive and dead.

Legend has it that the Unabomber ate dog meat to survive in his little cabin, and as a result domestic dogs he encountered in the community would react by snapping and snarling at him because they could smell it on him.

I respect other cultures, but it is frankly difficult to understand a culture that is suspicious of dogs.

I treat cultures the same as people. If they are deserving, they get respect. As far as dogs go, anyone remember the bruhaha in Scotland over putting a little puppy on police recruiting posters? A couple of Muslims (yeah, there are Muslims in Scotland serving on city councils) in positions of influence decided it was insensitive culturally.

Pet ownership, dogs and cats in particular, is wholly engrained in western culture. How about the offended councilmen have some cultural sensitivity for that fact?

Multiculturalism is simply another way for the minority to browbeat the majority until they either reach parity or become the majority themselves. I don't see a lot of multiculturalistic fervor in majority Muslim countries, by the by.

Uh, yeah - I got that. I just find it interesting that you picked Fox as the example. It's hardly the only estrabluished news organization with wildly skewed and leading internet poll questions. It's not just a Fox News thing.

It's by far the worst. None are great, true., but I havent read a "you decide" poll without laughing at it yet. Don't have to be so defensive over fox news, really.

@ DogsinIranquestion

No one "owns" the stray dogs in Iran (just like you wouldnt think of anyone "owning" the rats in NYC). They are regularly culled in a most atrocious manner. It's what got the issue to the forefront of the Humane Society.

I'd have to say Fox is about the same in my view as most of the others. Sorry if you perceive I'm being defensive about Fox News. I don't watch it much, really, as I don't have cable at home and the cable at work seems to be perpetually stuck on CNN Headline News. I do cop to finding it interesting (and I still do) that your first reaction to a skewed poll is not "hey, skewed poll!" but rather "hey, that's just like Fox!"

That said, long history of being looked down and harassed has long motivated people, both in a personal and public setting, to restort to violence.

The more we call them slurs, the more we say "comments" like "nuke em all in sandland" and legitimize presidental candidates saying they cant BUILD A PLACE OF WORSHIP (cain), the easier it isfor recruiters to pray upon the minds of young, impressionable boys.

If we treated Muslims with respect and focused our hatred (and guns) on just terrorists, we would be much more likely to being able to "win" this war on terror.

If you are looking for motivation and recruting tools though, we are providing them with plenty.

Yes, they absolutely shouldn't resort to violence - but why throw fuel on the fire?

They provide themselves with plenty. The mere fact that we have female judges that can send men to prison or the death chamber is fuel enough for them to hate us. Once you get past a certain level of hate, it doesn't matter what comes after.

Frankly, doing stupid shit like avoiding the actual profile of the people that have committed (and will commit) major terrorist actions on our soil is ridiculous, suicidal, and future generations will judge us extremely harshly for it.

Violence to defend myself, my loved ones, or the defenseless around me is warranted and appropriate if nothing else will work.

If you are looking for motivation and recruting tools though, we are providing them with plenty

1) Yeah I agree, we let them live here, work here, worship here, have no Mukhabrat , don’t discriminate against them on the basis of family, clan, or tribal affiliation, don’t rape their womyn, or feed them to plastic shredders, it’s no wonder they’re terrorists! I mean look at what we INFLICT on them!2) So, IF a TEA Party person plants a bomb, s/he can make the same claim, that racist, bigoted slurs made him/her do it?Dose you’re being completely foolish, here….

In other words, we're supposed to stop noticing that Islam has a 1400-year history of intolerance and disrespect? We're supposed to pretend that Islam is not a religion of war, conquest, enslavement and exploitation?

my point is why shouldnt be doing stupid things like giving them recruiting tools

So Muslims aren’t real people, capable of living in a Modern, Diverse Liberal Culture? Look at what has been thrown at Palin or the TEA Party, and would that “excuse” violence, no it wouldn’t?

So now you’re saying a few people, saying a few bad things, makes “Muslims” become terrorists? Really how come it doesn’t make Catholics or Christians, or TEA Party people join terrorist groups? But MUSLIMS, the poor dears, they are SO vulnerable to “abuse” they are driven to join terror groups?

You are either:1) Very silly; or2) Very condescending to Muslims.Looks to me like Muslims and you are trying to carve out a little niche for Muslims…OK be critical of anyone you want, but NOT Muslims, they can’t take it. Well learning to take it is a fundamental part of living in a culturally diverse, society.

Dose of sanity wrote:Include the exceptions for health of mother and rape, and you have my support.

I have never understood this rape exception most "conditional" pro-choice persons are willing to make. Please explain, paying particular attention to the part where the convicted rapist gets 20 years (out in 7 with good behavior) and the baby gets a death sentence.

I have never understood this rape exception most "conditional" pro-choice persons are willing to make. Please explain, paying particular attention to the part where the convicted rapist gets 20 years (out in 7 with good behavior) and the baby gets a death sentence

One word:“Optics”

Pro-Life folks don’t want to seem to be on the side of rape and rapists…..

"...You are either: 1) Very silly; or 2) Very condescending to Muslims...."

I'm pretty confident that if roles were reversed and it was white Christians keeping women covered, banning dogs, executing gays, and self detonating in the name of Jesus, you would not be hearing much about earning their respect or slapping COEXIST stickers on a Prius.

Steyn has an article posted with a picture of a school cafeteria in Toronto that subs as a mosque to allow the kids to attend prayer. The first row has the boys, girls sit in back and a third row for those girls who are menstrating.

I worked an Eid al-Fitr “Party”, Pre-9/11. It was funny…the “Imam/Mujtahid/Shaman” stood up before the congregants and listed off the activities up-coming, and how more parents, congregants and money were necessary for whatever was upcoming…just like any other religion! “If we’re going to have Vacation Bible School this year, we need the parents and congregation to step up.” I had to laugh, it was SO quintessentially American.

To see a Potato Sack, With Eyes, squeal down an inflatable slide, with her children looking on, warmed my heart..and in that moment, though I was Jew, and she a Muslim, we were all human. Pity that moments like that don’t last…

I have never understood this rape exception most "conditional" pro-choice persons are willing to make. Please explain, paying particular attention to the part where the convicted rapist gets 20 years (out in 7 with good behavior) and the baby gets a death sentence.

You are ignoring the Rape Victim in your scenario. Perhaps she doesn't want to relive the rape every time she looks at her own child? Do you think you should make that decision for her?

We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as "surplus."

This is the public face. If the institution of "pet-keeping" could be eliminated, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

So I wonder what PETA thinks of the mullahs declaring it illegal to wwn dogs .. for whatever reason.

You are ignoring the Rape Victim in your scenario. Perhaps she doesn't want to relive the rape every time she looks at her own child? Do you think you should make that decision for her?

You're ignoring the very real children of rape that have grown up to become normal, productive members of society. There are a couple of notable examples that come to mind immediately. Yet you would suggest they were not as important as the "feelings" of their mothers.

Joe: if you are a jew, try getting into the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia--you really havent seen the rags up close and personal--only the westernized kind

Dood/doodette try meeting Filipino Catholics, you haven’t seen the mackerel Snappers up close and personal, only the westernized kind.

Which leads me to a larger point…what IS “Islam” or “Christianity”? Islam is what my father and I practice, not those crazees down the street. Christianity is what my family practices at the First United Methodist Church, Two Sticks Missouri…not what those Papists squawk on about.

Are you saying “my” Muslims aren’t “real” Muslims? Only Saudi Muslims, or Muslims on the Hajj? Was Mohamet Atta a representative Muslim, or are the millions who don’t scream “Death to America” the “real” Muslims?

I do take your point--as is true in any population--there are some really fabulous human beings. My interpreter in Saudi Arabia was Sudanese: Mutawakil Mohammed al Hassan. I called him al assad al sahara (the lion of the desert). Alas he was not representative of the wahabis of the kingdom.

“In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.”

So I don't get the joy of having a dog in my home? If her vision were realized, how would I get one? How could possibly, morally, keep in not only in my house/yard, but keep it from not piddling all over the place?

In the end, I think it would lovely if we started with a notion of shock collars on stupid people.

================The Prophet was not a suburbanite living in the suburbs with white picket fences and all into eco-awareness and what a friendly pootch his neighbors golden labrador was.

He lived in a world where within hours of his friend Abdul was killed, a pack of dogs was chewing his former pal's face off - while jackals and vultures waited in the wings.

In our present day thinking, we too think our own contemporary scavangers - tens of thousands of maggots squirming through a dead murdered baby's body, lawyers, or turkey vultures ripping through a dead cat on the side of the road - are rather repulsive things. But doggies, no longer in the scavanger class that Mohammed encountered them as - are our buddies!

The problem is Fundie Muslims like Fundie Christians - are unable to adjust for changing times altering perceptions. Jesus, Leviticus, Mohammed may have had entirely different observations and truths and values had they lived in the present and formed their beliefs.

Even now, our perception alters - a lone seagull flying above a cliff on a gray November day is a beautiful sight. 10 thousand rooting through garbage is repulsive. I watch with wonderment as sharks go by my boat...I would detest them if I was in the water with them with my boat sunk a thousand feet below.

Don't blame Mohammed for thinking as 100% of people in his time did. Blame todays Fundies that cannot accept their "absolute values" must change with the circumstances of the times.

But neither was Mohamet Atta….in my example had they known I was a Jew, and a Zionist I’m sure there would have been “trouble.” I don’t claim it as a Total Kumbaya Moment, just one where one can see that “they” aren’t entirely what we think “they” are…

And I noted it was an AMERICAN “mosque.” Not being supported by the State, and having a diverse Muslim population, everything from US whites/Blacks, to Pakistanis, to Indonesians, to Saudi’s, or Malays, and some very sophisticated and comely pant suits sported, presumably, by some very fetching Lebanese womyn…everything from a clinging red pants suit, to a Nehru Jacket, to Afghani pants and funny pancake hats, to the Full Burqua. So not getting State support they HAD to appeal to the congregation and because it was diverse, it wasn’t a very doctrinaire group, I’m thinking…and that’s why I called it “American.” American churches/synagogues/mosques have to keep the lights on by meeting market demands.

As usual you know just enough about a subject to be dangerous. Man has had domestic dogs for 1000s of years. There was nothing about the 8th century middle east that meant you had to dislike dogs. The Egyptians and the Romans kept dogs. Muhamad was a moron. And you are a know nothing.

dmoelling said...In the pre-Islamic Zororastian teachings Dogs were great Allies in the search for the Truth and detecting the Lie.

I think Iranians often look back to their Persian pre-islamic days. THere are traditional holidays with a lot of partying that are also frowned upon by the Ayatollahs.

(Thank you Jimmie Carter!)

=====================Can't blame Jimmy Carter for a widespread popular Revolution. (The Revolutionary protests, which one show ran old tapes of to illustrate the difference beween them and the "mass dissident protests" of a couple years ago - were 20 time larger).In the early 80s, Nixon admitted his and other Administrations were blinded by a major US intelligence failure. The CIA and others bought into the Shah's people's assurances that the people were behind him too much. That Carter couldn't have "stopped things" from resulting in a change of power with such strong islamism and resentment fueling the Revolution.

Where Carter badly erred, Nixon said, was in making the US weak in the eyes of our enemies. By making all his actions about "saving the hero Hostages" - he has encouraged the spread of Islamism, invited the Soviet Union into Afghanistan and Africa. "The hostage thing...as important as those lives are...are secondary to America's vital interests. We had to retaliate, encourage a secular transition of power...but we didn't and emboldened our foes". Nixon concluded. And said he and other Administrations missed the ball, before Carter.

Some years ago, a friend visited rural areas of South Asia. As it once was, so there it still is. The people crapped outside, no outhouse. When our friend asked about that, her hosts pointed to the family dog. Sure enough, the next morning the waste was gone. I had a dog that did likewise several times: took her backpacking, she dug it up and rolled in it.

Dogs are unclean. They will eat anything. I've lived with dogs all my life. But I don't shrink from the truth. In the country, dogs clean up the place. In the city, they are net polluters.

cubanbob says: "[buy] a patch of land and [put] a fence around it and lie on your own grass and pick your own dandelions".

Did. That's the backyard, where the dog goes. I've got a grassy front yard, unfenced. That's where the neighbors' dogs go. I guess I'll have to put up a nice white picket fence, so I can grow a vegetable garden in the front yard, and then go to jail.

As usual you know just enough about a subject to be dangerous. Man has had domestic dogs for 1000s of years. There was nothing about the 8th century middle east that meant you had to dislike dogs. The Egyptians and the Romans kept dogs. Muhamad was a moron. And you are a know nothing.================Unfortunately, as you say I write knowing a little and that makes me a moron...you write in complete ignorance of the history of dogs and how they were used in older societies and thought of.That ancient people saw certain value in utility from dogs does not mean they treated them as pets - in the contemporary Western way.You also fail to understand the distinction between sedentary agrarian Romans and Egyptians that had various "pets" and nomads and other cultures that see animals as "working animals/pests" only.

one of the favorite columns in the islamic newspaper in the english edition was "ask the imam" one of the theological questions was the importance of washing after one passed wind. the answer from the imam was you had to wash again and avoid foods that would lead to flatulence, esp camel meat.

All Iranians, ALL I tell you, know the story of the mullah who was on his way to morning prayers when suddenly splashed with water by a dog shaking itself in a nearby drainage ditch. Refusing to look directly at the animal, the mullah rushed on and muttered, "God willing, it's a goat."

"That ancient people saw certain value in utility from dogs does not mean they treated them as pets - in the contemporary Western way."

So, when a Bedouin shares his meal with his dog inside the tent first, then his family; kisses the dog and fondles its ears affectionately; allows the dog to sleep inside the tent as well - that's way different?

Or, jumping over to China, breeding little lap dogs and giant palace defenders, treating them essentially the same as above - that too is way different?

Or, now to South America, breeding little yappers that were kept as palace pets for both sexes of royalty - that's different too?

Or an Irish king ransoming a small fortune for the return of his wolf hounds, which he actually sleeps with and wears shirts woven from their hair as a sign of prestige - that too is way different?

I encounter people in the elevator with their dogs all the time. It gives me a chance to ignore the person and give attention directly to the dog. "Hi there pooch! Are you taking your person out for a walk again? Oh boy, are you going outside to be a pooper? D'ya wanna sniff me?" *ding* "See ya!"

Saudi Arabia's religious police have announced a ban on selling pet cats and dogs or exercising them in public in the Saudi capital because of men using them as a means of making passes at women, an official said on Wednesday.

Othman al-Othman, head of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice in Riyadh, known as the Muttawa, told the Saudi edition of al-Hayat daily that the commission has started enforcing an old religious edict. He said the commission was implementing a decision taken a month ago by the acting governor of the capital, Prince Sattam bin Abdul Aziz, adding that it follows an old edict issued by the supreme council of Saudi scholars.

The reason behind reinforcing the edict now was a rising fashion among some men using pets in public "to make passes on women and disturb families", he said, without giving more details.

"[Dog] plays an unusual trick in first getting its hearty feeling in one or two special phrases, which seem already to depend upon a feeling about dogs denied in other uses of the word. Before the Restoration the dog of metaphor, by and large, is snarling, a sycophant, an underdog, loose in sex and attracted by filth, cruel if it dare; 'love me, love by dog' means 'love the meanest thing about me.' There is the Biblical dog, a pariah, living on crumbs and Jezebel as they drop ('a dog's chance' -- he is dependent on human society and yet friedless in it); and also the dog-faced Thersites of Homer, a mean and envious mocker (staying in the manger, barking at the moon). Shylock is eminently a dog of this sort and often called so; a man so placed can hardly be expected not to pervert justice, though this is a warning for you, not an excuse for him. It is not clear how far this feeling would apply to actual dogs; they do not get the full weight of it, but the change in a stock proverb seems to show that the earlier feeling was that they deserve pity as being normally (yet therefore rightly) ill-treated. 'As good a deed as to help a dog over a stile,' 1546, an act of supererogatory and unconventional mercy; whereas the version of 1638, 'help a lame dog over a stile,' puts in the adjective to make an otherwise natural action pathetic, and is a direct metaphor for helping a man. It is clear anyway that very mixed feelings are there to be drawn on."

"Don't blame Mohammed for thinking as 100% of people in his time did."

Hyperbole doesn't help. Bedouins and many other Islamic people have always kept dogs"

(+ another post noting that dogs have been domesticated for 1000s of years)

Can we *finally* dispense with the notion that well, C-fudd may be a grump, he may be a bigot, he may be an insufferable flaming asshole but boy he knows what he's talking about? The guy *always* gets caught lying when someone comes along who actually knows something about what he is claiming. He doesn't know jack, he just makes shit up to support whatever deluded talking point he's trying to make.

My bassett hound will only poop in oak leaves and wipes his feet afterward by scratching the ground with all four. Once, he had a loose one and some got on his hind end. He dragged his bottom along the ground to wipe it off.

We were in Tucson all weekend and he was not too happy. Constipated most of the weekend. He is very glad to be home now.

I have grown up with dogs and there are dog people and cat people. Rarely both. Muslims treat their women like dogs so they don't need any.

I read a history of Persia, recently, and apparently the Muslim abhorrence of dogs, was started, to specifically to annoy the Zoroastrians, over whom they gained the upper hand politically with the take over of the Persian Empire. They would taunt, torture and kill dogs, just to prove to the then. Zoroastrian majority, that they had the power. The Muslims also would wait until a Zoroastrian community had finished a religious building, and then take the building over as a mosque. So the prohibition against dogs, especially in Persia was a mark of cultural dominance by the Muslims.

"BTW = even in Saudi Arabia, the desert people keep dogs as working animals, sometimes usefulness overrules ritual."

The dogs they keep are salukis, which are conveniently classified as non-dogs in Islam so that humans can eat the food that they catch. In fact, the word for saluki in Arabic means "Gift of Allah." I know this because I had a saluki for 12 years; he was the most neurotic pain-in-the-ass animal I've had the misfortune to share space with in my entire life.