An Easter Message: A New Birth of the Armenian Spirit

ANCA Telethon 2012 to Support Drive for the Return of Christian Churches

As Armenians, we join together this Easter in celebrating the resurrection of Christ and also, as Armenians–heirs of an ancient people that arose nearly a century ago from the ashes of genocide–in marking our own rebirth as a nation.

Anti-Armenian demonstration in Turkey. Banner reads: “Today Taksim, Tomorrow Yerevan: We will descend upon you suddenly in the night.”

We recall with pride our rebirth as a people from the fires of hatred that nearly consumed us in 1915. And, once again, we are painfully reminded that the blind and irrational hatred by Turkish state–and sadly much of its society–toward Armenians still burns, and–if not quenched by the waters of justice–may light again to burn the surviving sons and daughters of our ancient but endangered homeland.

As a people who believe in the power of faith and promise of forgiveness, we seek a true and enduring redemption for the Republic of Turkey through repentance. For, just as scripture tells us that the truth will set us free, so too will justice lead us to peace.

For Turkey’s leaders, government, and people, the difficult path to true forgiveness must pass through a sincere confession of past sins and an apology for all harm, the full return of all that must rightfully be rendered to the victims of its crimes, and an abiding renunciation of hatred and violence toward the modern-day sons and daughters of those who lived on the biblical lands in and around Ararat for thousands of years. Sadly, it’s not a matter of Turkey simply moving too slowly in the right direction. The facts show that Turkey’s leaders are headed in the wrong direction, as illustrated, earlier this year, at state-supported anti-Armenian rallies in Ankara and Istanbul–attended by top government officials–that openly and proudly incited hatred against Armenians.

Turkey must repent in word and deed; Redeem itself in spirit and action; Renounce evil, and all the fruits of its crimes, and render to the Armenians all that once was and remains Armenian. These are the wages of Turkey’s sins, and the price of its salvation.

The Surp Garabed Church near Mush, currently a barn. (Photo by Khatchig Mouradian)

There can be no better place to start than the immediate return of all churches, monasteries, relics, and other religious properties, not only to the Armenians, but to all the Christians of these ancient biblical lands. Thankfully, with the support of Armenian Americans from across our country, we have been able to make progress on this vital new front for the Armenian Cause. With your renewed support for ANCA Telethon 2012, we can do much more.

In the months since last Easter–which fell, as Armenians worldwide recall, on April 24th–we have seen the U.S. House of Representatives pass H.Res.306, formally calling upon Turkey to return stolen Christian churches, and European courts demanding the return of confiscated holy sites. We have witnessed our Secretary of State publicly press Ankara to return stolen religious properties, and the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom place the Turkish government on its “black list” of countries that violate freedom of faith. And, perhaps most tellingly, we have watched–skeptically, but with interest–as Turkey itself has felt compelled to begin speaking and even taking token action regarding the return of religious properties.

To be sure, Secretary Clinton’s remarks fall far short of the type of moral pressure America should be exerting upon Ankara, and Turkey itself has shown no sign that it has deviated in the least from its longstanding aim of cementing the gains of its genocidal crimes. In fact, all signs point to Ankara tactically responding to international pressure by creating the illusion of tolerance through “reforms,” that, even if fully implemented, would only return a small fraction of the thousands of religious properties belonging to Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians, Arameans, Syriacs, and other Christians.

The ANCA’s Chairman, in February of this year, at a conference in Antelias, Lebanon, hosted by Armenian religious leader, Aram I, who heads the Great House of Cilicia, spoke powerfully to the broader moral issues at stake in the growing movement to restore Christian churches on the territory of present-day Turkey to their rightful owners:

As we approach the end of a century in which all the moral and material costs of the Armenian Genocide have fallen upon the victims of this crime, we seek, for ourselves and all humanity, a new era, a better century—guided by the ethic that the burdens of this genocide and all genocides will, as they rightly must, be borne by its perpetrator. The return of churches, Turkey’s surrender–voluntary or otherwise–of the thousands of church properties it stole from Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks, Syriacs, and other Christians prior to, during, and after the Armenian Genocide era, would represent a meaningful first step by the Turkish government toward accepting its responsibility for a truthful and just resolution of this still unpunished crime against humanity. (Read the full text of Hachikian’s speech.)

As children of the first nation to adopt Christianity, we celebrate this holiest of days by calling upon all of our brothers and sisters in faith worldwide–Christians, Muslims, Jews, believers of all denominations and faiths, and those who hold no faith–to join with us in offering a prayer for the Armenian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Syriac, Pontian, Greek, and other victims of the Ottoman Empire’s World War I-era genocide of its Christian minorities.

We ask – in the powerful words of the late, great American President John F. Kennedy–for the blessings and help of God, in the knowledge that “here on earth God’s work must truly be our own.” In this spirit, let us resolve to add a measure of devotion to our service and sacrifice–through ANCA Telethon 2012 and countless other avenues–for the return of our churches and the realization of the Armenian Cause.

87 Comments on An Easter Message: A New Birth of the Armenian Spirit

Good Friday…
Is the day
Without tears
Without rage
With happy yellings
It will be a Amazing Day
When no longer any human hear or see killings
When people live in peace…
And be satisfied with little that they enjoy…
When every race respects each other’ feelings
And all religions unite and bless every others honest roles…!

Good article, but you lost me at the end when you called upon “all of our brothers and sisters in faith worldwide–Christians, Muslims, Jews, believers of all denominations and faiths, and those who hold no faith” to join us in prayer……. Muslims and those who have no faith or are of other faiths can’t be called “our brothers and sisters in faith.” Nor, really, can Jews, in that they don’t believe that Jesus Christ is their Messiah. It’s wonderful to acknowledge that we were all created by God and therefore share a common humanity, but to then go on to say that we are related in our faith makes me wonder if that were so—–if following Mohammed was the same as following Jesus——why our people needed to die. They could have just converted to Islam and saved their lives. Our people never saw the Muslims as one in faith with them, and neither should we. To do so is to assault their memory and the sacrifice of their lives.

Mr. Hamparian uses terms related to Easter, but seems to miss the point of Easter. As Christians we are called to forgive, regardless of the actions of others. While Christ was dying for us on the cross, the said to His father, “forgive them father for they know not what they do.” He did this for the people who killed time before they ever asked for forgiveness or repented. We should have the courage and strength to forgive, regardless of whether or not Turkey repents. Easter is a time to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and His overcoming death on our behalf.

This “”Return of Churches” initiative is an excellent opportunity to promote our cause in many dimensions. First and foremost is the moral responsibility of the Turkish government to return what was stolen. Granted the church properties is a small fraction confiscated as a result of the genocide .but it is a leverage point that can build momentum. The Congressional resolution and the U.S. Commission report certainly illustrates the need and underlying cause. Second there is a direct linkage to the genocide and reparations. With the properties issues , the logical question of any observer would be….what happened to the parishioners and students of these institutions? Why is there no local population to support these religious properties? Why did most of them stop functioning in 1915(with the exception of the Ani properties)?
To those of us who identify with the Armenian people, the answers are obvious,, but to the discerning public and world organization, it’s a story that connects the dots. Properties stolen through criminal behavior that must be corrected. One question leads to another that unravels the denial conspiracy. This initiative requires and deserves the unified efforts of the diaspora and Armenia with a seamless position with the Patriarchate of Constantinople. The voices of those silenced are waiting.

Stepan
I have a very good answer to your question but this is your territory and it will be filtered.

Aram Hamparian
The way you express your opinion can only lead you to a Turkish prison. Just to remind you that Talaat and others were the ministers of the country . His resting place called ” the liberty Hill”. I would strongly advise you to watch his second funeral on youtube in 1940 when he finally returned his homeland.I keep saying you are talking about a pipedream

Some people they pray for devils…
Because their genes are devlish …
Like some like Hitler …Some like Stalin…
Still some like Sadam and many other tyrants …
This is in their genes they like to obey tthe killers
Like hollywoodian films…!

Mesrop, but there are instances in which Jesus warns us: “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and tear you.” –Matthew 7:6, Holy Bible

We don’t hate turkish people …
We want our rights …
Our churches were destroyed there…
Why for what …
Why their people they use
their hands and like to vanish arts
which people worked for it
and build by their sweat and blood…
They are continuing …doing it and blaming us what they did…
Propagating that Armenians are using mosques as barns …in Karabakh
Few days ago it was one of Arabic news paper in the front page (Al-Siasa)
Azeri’s washing the brain of Arabs…!
Thus…
Who is applying hate you or us…!
Easter comes… Easter goes the same is for every Armenian
the end of that unlucky month…there are memories of genocide…!

Ask your self …
Who used the word hate …!
Can’t you see the red Hate-flag above…?
Is this a Love or Hate…!

If your son asks his right
Do you in your language turn his question to hate…!

Armenians have Love in their Hearts
More than any other nation…!

Also the word Obsession…
This is pshycological-psycopathic word…
If we were obsessive nation
We would ended up depressed
But we are never…
Where ever we lived
We Loved and Cared…
Like our family …like our kin…

Now they are paying bribes
For other nations to hate us
But they don’t have money
To care for few immigrant Syrians
They ask UN to pay…!!!

I don’t think 25000 people can be considered as few. Although they surely have some other intents, I find Turkish government’s position to shelter so many refugees quite honorable, yet maybe even a little misplaced considering the recent earthquake in Van.

Asking the Turks to come to terms with their genocidal past is like asking an apple tree to bear grapes.. the sooner we Armenians understand that the better..These people will never come to terms and will always be an enemy. admission leads to and apology and reparations: two things the Turks have never ever done in their entire history…The only solution is for all Armenians to Unite and continue the cause for justice regardless of what corner we are on this planet.. beside the obvious i just mentioned we need to:

1. Clean Armenian proper itself of the ruling thugs that don’t mind stealing for their own gain. and make it a prosperous country that attracts outside influx rather then mass exodus..
2. strengthen its world standing with all governments of this world.
3. Make sure it is armed to the teeth with the latest technology and weaponry..

Thanks John for your letter
! agree 101% for what you said…
I communicated with many educated Turks …
Some of them have even Armenian grandmothers…
But they are Turks and they will never change…
So I learned something you can never speak about their past…
They remain proud in their heart…for what they did…!
You can never change one hair in them
As Arabian proverb repeats…!
Thus…we should unite without wasting any time…!

No wonder Tallat’s resting place is called ”the liberty Hill”. One of the three devil’s advocates (together with Jemal and Enver), this Ittihadist Turkish creep effectively “liberated” all Western Armenia of any trace of Christina Armenians. And the Turkish nation continues to revere this vicious mass murderer and population expeller. Yeah, he returned to his homeland after Soghomon Teylerian revenged his butchered family by killing this Ittihadist assassin. But instead of being condemned based on 1919 Court Martial verdict, he now rests in ”the Liberty Hill”. What does this say about your nation, yahya?

Happy Easter, Armenian Christians and all 2.5 billion Christians all over the world! Let’s celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ–our Lord, Savior, and Son of God, who came to earth with a life to give so each one of us may continue to live. “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.” –Jesus Christ (Revelation 3: 20-21, Holy Bible)

Mesrop, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.
1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
Can Turks or their government get the forgiveness of God before confessing for thier sins or wrongs doings?
I think we (Armenians) already had forgiven them more than 7×70 , do you agree with me ?

“You are trying to force them to accept your opinions without listening to them.”

And what is your opinion, tokado? What, in your opinion, had happened to the millions of indigenous Christians of Asia Minor? In particular, where are the 2 -2.2 million native Armenians of Van, Erzrum, Kharberd (Mamuretülaziz), Bitlis, Digranakerd (Diyarbekir), and Sebastia (Sivas)? Where are the Armenians of Constantinople, Adana, Zeitoun, Kars, Ardahan?

“You cannot expect people to change without being open to any change for yourself.”

We are open to change, but don’t you think we deserve an apology for the millions of forcibly deported and savagely butchered innocent people and ancestral lands stolen? On the personal level, how can you be open to change if a neighbor of yours never apologized for a wrongdoing?!

Short notes of approval to John,Sylva et al who grasp the fact that WE cannot change the turkish mindset,i.e., the great majpority*who went through 70 and odd yrs of brainwashing,after Ataturk..It may take another century before a wee bit is changed in their minds…more than education, they need to learn history.This was totally reversed and published to them in reverse mode….
As to the 3. points that John suggests.
Please take time to read my long articles in http://www.armeniannews.info…….
click on top User submitted articles. I don’t mind if even turks and odars resad it too. What i advocate is FOR US TO FORGE AHEAD.
No force in the world can bend the Armenian will .But please do not use word Unity. No political of An advanced Euro country is united with another.But…THEY COOPERATE…when their country is faced with menace or enemies..We should learn to cooperate, whether ideologically inclined to left or right or non partisan -like self- we All are Armenians,We also shoudl tolerate half armenians if we pass them through meticulous tests….and result is affirmative.
To Berch.Thanks for yoiur comments too,but like john wrote it is USELESS!!!
Let us get re organzied and co operate.

I don’t think it is useless. This is an open forum and a multitude of people read it. To leave Turkish denialists’ allegations unanswered–when we know, as does the civilized world, that the truth is on our side–is to give them a way to advance their denialist agenda.

unchallenged lies have a way of jelling into “facts” in the real world.
truth has to be defended.

Azeris have succeeded in creating and solidifying several myths, because at the outset we Armenians mistakenly believed that such blatant lies cannot possible get any traction. We thought truth, in and of itself, would be sufficient. Unfortunately the lies did get traction. And now it will be that much harder to change the perception of neutral 3rd parties.

I recently watched a press conference given by a Czech reporter Dana Mazalova who saw the pictures taken from Khojalu during the war. She was the one who mentioned that pictures taken by Chingiz Abdulaev did not match with the pictures taken by Azeri side later, as most of the victims were dismembered afterwords.

She told that there is a village in former Czechoslovakia, where Nazis killed the civilians and burned them. She learned that Azerbaijan from 2007 has used that village to show the world as if something similar happened to Khojalu. She felt very bad and though that it was very offensive to compare falsified story of Khojalu with the story of Czech village. She felt so bad that she collected other reporters and spoke against it.

Are you being honest? In other words, are you sincere or you are a denialist Turk? If moderator (he or she is not mine, by the way) filtered your comment, it means you might have used derogatory words. It is hard to believe that a mere opinion about what had happened to the millions of indigenous Christians of Asia Minor and, most gruesomely, to the Armenians, could have been filtered when I see what inflammatory words other Turks use on these pages.

Moderator on this site remove many of my letters…
Sometimes I stop writing …I rage… then I come back …
for the sake of our genocide …
And my letters are verses …Which need strong spirit to pen…
It does not arise from my mind but from my soul
which have been tortured since my childhood hearing
unjust stories about our artful nation …
Which almost all nation respect and praise us…!

Few days ago I forwarded two verses to New York Times about the German poet
Gunter Grass…I wasted my time for almost a day to see it was published…
I kept forwarding 5-6 times … at the end i wrote to them, “on what basis you are vanishing my verse…I need an answer ” Then they published…!

That’s a line worthy of the comment sections on some Turkish websites. That’s so racist and insulting I kind of respect it. I mean hey dude, at least your honest and don’t pretend to not hate Turks like some here, props for that.

Hi Tokado…
Please we don’t insult any body…
We don’t hate…
We want justice and only justice…
Did you understand or you are here to Insult us…
Forcing Us to forget …
Turks criminal act still continuing …!
Can I ask you ” We are insulting them
Or they are Insulting Us…Can’t you see above…”
This is a sign that they still want to vanish Us…!

Today early morning …I was driving carefully…
and in the street many meters away
there were group of pigeons …
I drove slowly not to hit…
I thought the pigeons will fly away till I reach near
i could have stopped…
However In my back there was a fast car…
So if i stopped that car could hit me…
I think I hit one of them…

My beloved was very upset…
He blamed me…saying, ” Are you blind…!
We had strong argument till we arrived our place…!
I felt guilty to hit the poor bird…
I hope thee is alive…
Then i thought how men could kill so many people
honest dedicated they can never kill even a bird..!.

Have any of your family been murdered
I hope not
They say, “if the wound doesn’t reach you never feel pain…”

I feel you are here protecting the Turks…
I hope you can give them our message…

Yes, second adjective “denialist” before “Turk” at the bottom of my comment somehow slipped, maybe I was typing hastily.

tokado:

Why won’t you try again if you think “anything that would shadow the twisted evil Turk image that you (who?) try to build” is filtered? Just answer plainly: What, in your opinion, had happened to the millions of native Christians of Asia Minor? In particular, where are the 2 -2.2 million native Armenians of Van, Erzrum, Kharberd (Mamuretülaziz), Bitlis, Digranakerd (Diyarbekir), and Sebastia (Sivas)? Where are the Armenians of Constantinople, Adana, Zeitoun, Smyrna, Kars, Ardahan? Have these peoples evaporated from the places where they were rooted for millennia? Where are their homes, pastures, cultural monuments, educational institutions, churches, monasteries, bell towers, seminaries? Their bank accounts, insurance indemnities, personal properties, valuables? Curious to know…

P.S. Moderators (although you are certainly not mine) could you confirm if tokado’s comment was filtered? And if his or her innocuous, as he or she claims, comment was filtered, how come derogatory comments by other Turkish denialists and hate-mongers were allowed? Thanks.

Let me rewrite what I wrote before, although it might not contain the same words of course.

My opinion is is a very simple attitude of “Let’s discuss”. For most of the Armenians, AG is a fact that cannot be discussed and everybody should accept without any doubts. For most of the Turks, the AG is a lie that cannot be discussed, and it should be refused immediately. That’s unfortunately a deadlock situation.

If we come to the issue of “denialist Turk”. Your intent is very visible. You don’t say “denialist”, but you say “denialist Turk”. You have a prejudice about Turks (like most of people here), and you use it as an adjective to counter “sincere”. Even your question to the moderator assumes that a Turk should probably lying about its post getting filtered.

I personally have never seen so much hate directed against my country and its people.

Not only Armenians know Ottomans cruelty
But Arabs…from Iraq till Egypt and further…
Ask any Arab will tell you who are the Turks…
He will tell you,
They used Kazookhs to burst the intestine of the Arabs…
And every Arab knows this word their grandparents told them…
And your name will stay Kazookh…”Turkish Kazookh”
Full stop.

Do you also have the same feelings for Aztecs, who sacrificed a million, for Romanians, who impailed thousands on people on sticks, or Romans who killed and slaved without mercy, or Americans who used nukes and poisoned generations. Every country has ugly moments in their history.

Yet I have never heard of Kazookh from any Arabs, nor I could find any reference to it on internet. I highly doubt that it’s real. Moreover Arabs will probably tell you about Turkish series rather than Ottoman cruelty. I don’t think they pass the hatred from generation to generation.

Where do you get that stupid ideas, I wonder? Don’t you realize that your comments are not welcomed and appreciated here? What is your purpose? What is the point screaming here that it is an honor to be a Turk and that Turks are a great nation? We do not think that Turks are a great nation or Turkey is a great country. You can scream until you are blue in your face but we will not change our opinion about your fascistic country.

Great nations do not commit genocide and then deny it by falsifying events and facts. Great nations do not oppress millions of people like you do with Kurds. You really have to learn a lot from Germany. Germans in Germany have apologized to me (to Armenian nation) for Armenian genocide committed by Turks as they know that they had a role in the Armenian genocide, and you Turks deny it? How does that work?

“or Americans who used nukes and poisoned generations. Every country has ugly moments in their history.”

Tokado,

I wonder, why is it so difficult for you and some of your fellow Turks to understand that there is big difference between committing crimes, admitting and compensating them vs committing crimes and denying them. Yes, Americans dropped nuclear bombs over Japan but do they deny and falsify it? How would Japanese people feel if Americans said it was not Americans who did it or Americans were just flying over japan and bombs were dropped accidentally? Do you see how ridiculous it sounds?

All the world is asking you is this: what happened to over 2 million Christians in Ottoman empire? Where are they now? Why are their bones all over in Syrian deserts and Turkey? Why you systematically deported millions of Christian children, elderly, men and women without water and food? Did not you understand that they would die without food and water? Do you have to be too smart to understand it? What happened to their properties, their houses, their churches, bank accounts? Do you have an answer?

I thought you attempted to compare Turkey with other countries, and show us that Turkey is no different from other countries when it come to the ugly events in the past. You cannot do hat because Turkey is different. If you did not do so then I appologize.

You still did not answer my question.

What happened to the properties, lands, houses, churches, bank accounts of 2 million Armenians who were slaughtered, kidnapped, died of hunger or fled their homes?

Tokado it is easy to say Armenians are lying if you are a Turk who has been taught a biased and distorted history. But it is also easy to do the research and to discover the truth of the genocide…if ones mind is open. Perhaps Armenians here appear hateful to you, but what do you expect them to feel toward the descendants of those who murdered their ancestors and who offer no remorse but add insult to injury by calling them liars as they seek justice? It is not individual Turks that we feel hate for. Many of us have befriended Turks. It is the institutionalized indifference to Armenian loss and callous disregard of the crime committed by your ancestors that we hate. I am sure you can appreciate the difference.

Ah finally a logical opinion. I’m completely fine of people seeking justice. It’s our most basic right. I’m not arguing against AG, I am just telling that in my opinion most of the comments here do not seek justice, they seek vengeance. Some says evil barbaric Turks, some says kazooth, or ever use the work Turk as an insult. I find it racist.

Seeking justice is ok, seeking vengeance doesn’t make sense since all actors of the 1915 are already dead.

Tokado, it is pretty cold-hearted to suggest that Armenians here are racists looking for vengeance when they express their justified anger over the genocide, the Turkish tendency to minimize and distort the crime, and the lack of justice. You seem intelligent. Can’t you see that Turkish society holds the key to quelling the ‘anger’ which you mistakenly call racism and vengeance?

I understand you. But there is a fine line between anger to a nation and racism against the people of that nation. The language used here gives me the impression of the latter. If one says “are you intelligent or stupid?” then it is anger, but if one says “are you intelligent, or stupid Turk?” then it’s racist.

You have the right to be angry to the Turkish state. You may be right to be angry to its people, since they are not doing enough for the minorities. But there are millions who really want to improve relations between two people although Turkey has an economic advantage in the game. Yet when you see some of the comments one might say “why bother…, they see me as their enemies anyways”.

Why bother? Because your nation is guilty of a terrible crime. It is on Turks to “suck it up” and develop a thick skin in the face of justified anger. Show others through your humane and moral actions that the nation of Turkey aims to be respected. What has Turkey done to earn the respect, patience or goodwill of Armenians? Pitifully little. On the other hand, what has Turkey done to earn contempt and distrust. A mountain full! Are you sure you are not painting all Armenians with the same brush? Is this not bigotry?

Tokado, I reread what I wrote to you above and think it is incomplete. Armenians do not hate Turks. We hate the deliberate attempt to avoid responsibility for a great crime against humanity. We hate that your government has a deliberate agenda to avoid justice and distort history. We hate being forcefully separated from the land that was our home for thousands of years. We hate seeing our ancient churches used as stables or left in ruin. We hate that our heritage is claimed by Turks as their own. We hate the arrogance and false pride that allows Turks to feel so little remorse for having attempted to exterminate the Armenians. We hate what Turks have done and are doing, but we don’t hate individual Turks because they are Turkish. What about the Turkish hate of Armenians?

I don’t have people hating Armenians around me. Yet of course I cannot deny that such people exist in Turkish community. But I think that it is a pure defensive reaction to the diaspora aggression that they feel.

Tokado, I often hear Turks refer to Armenian diaspora aggression and it baffles me. Yes, there were some terrifying incidents for Turks that were carried out by small bands of Armenians who were attempting to extract justice for the genocide through their attacks on Turkish officials. Most Armenians do not condone these methods, even if we understand the frustration that led these young men to take such actions. But compared to the reign of terror that built the Ottoman empire in the first place, the culminating acts of terror against Armenians and other Christian minorities in the waning days of the empire, and the oppression and suppression of all things non-Turkish (in ways too numerous to list) since the formation of the modern republic, it is almost comical to hear you speak of ‘Armenian aggression’. Talk about defensiveness! Can’t you see the psychological purging of guilt that your nation needs to embrace? It makes you paranoid as a people and causes you to overreact to Armenian ‘assertiveness’ in the face of denial and distortion.

You effectively veered off from expressing your opinion on a clear-cut question, resorting to a simplification as to what AG means for the Armenians and what it means for the Turks. This is certainly not a courageous stance on the issue, nor is it an honest attempt to research it for the sake of the truth. Simplification such as “for the Armenians, AG is a fact that cannot be discussed and everybody should accept without doubts, while for the Turks, the AG is a lie that cannot be discussed and should be refused” should not emanate from a 21st-century intellectual, if you consider yourself one. Boyajian put it most convincingly: “[in this age] it is easy to do the research and to discover the truth of the genocide”. To say “that’s a deadlock situation” essentially means that you willfully give up looking into the core of the issue because you know that admitting guilt will show the true face of your predecessors. I take it that your reprimand to Sylva (“you are trying to force [Turks] to accept your opinions without listening to them”) was just a baloney since you offered no opinion on the substance of the issue that we could listen to. Next time try to be more sophisticated if, of course, sophistication is at all emblematic for your nation.

Now back to the issue of “denialist Turk” that seems easier for you to digest. Yes, I don’t say “denialist”, I say “denialist Turk” for a simple reason: most of the issues we’re discussing here relate directly to your nation and its heinous crimes against other nations. Thus, “denialist Turk”. If a Turk denies a broadly accepted truth about the deliberate mass murder of the Armenians, he or she is, mildly speaking, insincere. Yes, I have prejudice towards such Turks. What seems to be incomprehensible? And, yes, I raised doubts about your sincerity about your post being filtered. As we all could see, at a second attempt it was posted. About hate directed against your country and its people. For the millionth time: we don’t hate your people. We understand that most of them are brainwashed by distorted history and state propaganda. It is your denialist, unremorseful state that we abhor, a state that for almost 100 years denies its crimes against the native Christian peoples of Asia Minor. How would you feel towards a perpetrator state if nearly all of your nation were barbarously exterminated, two-thirds of its ancestral lands stolen, and the truth about the crime denied? Would you feel blissful about such a state?

I have the same feelings towards any nation that was subjected to a deliberate, premeditated, state-sponsored policy of mass physical extermination. Every country has ugly moments in their history, indeed, but only a very few, Turkey certainly being one of them, has an ugly record of genocidal extermination of native peoples and continues to deny the guilt.

Many Arabs I have met despise the Turks. They will also tell you about Ottoman savagery and hanging of their intelligentsia in Aleppo. Maybe they don’t pass the hatred from generation to generation, I don’t know, but, after all, Arabs haven’t experienced near-total physical annihilation and the loss of ancestral homeland. Armenian have. Can you appreciate the difference? Apply all the potency of your Turkish mind, please.

Full stop will be inserted only when the Turkish crime is admitted and apologized for. Make no mistake…

“Many Arabs I have met despise the Turks. They will also tell you about Ottoman savagery and hanging of their intelligentsia in Aleppo. Maybe they don’t pass the hatred from generation to generation, I don’t know, but, after all, Arabs haven’t experienced near-total physical annihilation and the loss of ancestral homeland. Armenian have. Can you appreciate the difference? Apply all the potency of your Turkish mind, please.”

Good for you. Maybe you can form a club of some sort. You can sacrifice a Turk in each meeting, and live happily ever after.
Apparently the potency of your Armenian mind is not enough to do anything good for Armenia, but it is just enough to provide diaspora a common enemy to keep some link between its members.

“Yeah after the Turks left Arabs just figured it all out. What a welcome relief the British were, and the kings and dictators after that.”

First off, the Turks didn’t leave (Turks never voluntarily leave from the lands of others), they were forced to leave.

Secondly, in a certain sense the British were indeed a relief after repressions that the Arabs saw under Ottoman Turks. May I remind the hanging of Arab intellectuals in Beirut in 1915 by the decree of Turkish governor of Syria? Or maybe In 1916 Turkish authorities publicly executed twenty-one Syrians and Lebanese in Damascus and Beirut, respectively (May 6 is still commemorated annually in both countries as Martyrs’ Day, and the site in Beirut has come to be known as Martyrs’ Square, did you know that?). Or maybe widespread arrests and demonic tortures of Arab freedom-fighters in Damascus and Beirut during the Arab Revolt of 1916-1918? Or maybe the Battle of Megiddo in 1918 when the retreating Ottoman Turks committed monstrous atrocities against peaceful Arab villagers (i.e. non-combatants)?

Thirdly, whatever Arab kings and Arab dictators did to the Arab people after the loathed Turks were forced out should not concern unrelated Turks. What should concern Turks is what THEY did to non-Turks, most gruesomely, to the Armenians, and whether they have matured enough as a nation to say “we are sorry”…

“Thirdly, whatever Arab kings and Arab dictators did to the Arab people after the loathed Turks were forced out should not concern unrelated Turks. ”

Okay, then why are we talking about it? Are you an Arab? No, so then it doesn’t concern you either. Furthermore, if the oppression and butchering of ones own citizens continues to this day after the Turks left, then perhaps Arabs should look in the mirror and see if they have become the people who they so loathe, as you say.

A denialist Turk using a pen name in which a Christian Saint’s name figures who generally spews out rubbish is beneath me to respond in length. Use your brainpan to understand that so far no court verdict said the Armenian genocide was committed because to such case was yet submitted to a court and that no one here claimed the contrary. If your intellectual capabilities permit, look also into the verdicts of the Turkish Courts Martial of 1919-1920 and decide for yourself as to what crime the three Devil’s advocates, three most prominent mass murderers—Talaat, Enver, and Jemal Pashas–were sentenced to death for. Then come back to these pages and share your thoughts with us, preferably in a sober—not smoked or high—condition.

Was it not you who wrote on April 14, 2012: “Yeah after the Turks left Arabs just figured it all out. What a welcome relief the British were, and the kings and dictators after that”? Then why are you asking me as to what we’re talking about? No, I’m not an Arab as I hope it should have been clear to everyone but the Turks perhaps. But my survivor relatives, the genocide victims, found refuge in Syria after being marched with no food, water or shelter to the desert of Deyr-ez-Zor. Arabs gave to the world a distinct religion, grand achievements and discoveries in science, philosophy, arts, medicine, military art, education, architecture, music, and literature that we enjoy today, thus they do concern me. They should also concern you, if you think you’re an open-minded person, because Turks heavily borrowed Arab achievements in religion, literature and script, culture, cuisine, music, etc.

Whatever oppression and killings Arab kings and dictators committed, they were brought on the heads of their own people. Turks, on the other hand, brought destruction, calamities, oppression, indescribable barbarity, and mass murder on the heads of other peoples. Even as we exchange these words, oppression of Kurds goes on. Appreciate the difference, if you can. Hardly any nation can compete with Turks in terms of scale of mass murder, let alone Arabs.

Your inability to understand the simplest of things is remarkable. Re read what I said in my post. I said then WHY are we talking about it, in response to you saying

““Thirdly, whatever Arab kings and Arab dictators did to the Arab people after the loathed Turks were forced out should not concern unrelated Turks. ””

If it should not concern me, as a non Arab, then it should not concern you as well, another non Arab. Under those circumstances, if it should not concern either of us, why do we continue to talk about it? Does belonging to an ethnic group who had a genocide committed against them give you free reign to speak about anything and everything while I can’t open my mouth?

” They should also concern you, if you think you’re an open-minded person, because Turks heavily borrowed Arab achievements in religion, literature and script, culture, cuisine, music, etc.”

Was it not you who said just yesterday,

“Thirdly, whatever Arab kings and Arab dictators did to the Arab people after the loathed Turks were forced out should not concern unrelated Turks. ”

Just to be clear, should I get clearance from you about what I can and cannot say about Arabs?

I think what tokado is trying to say, at least how I understand it, is that it is fine to seek justice but not vengeance, conveniently forgetting that a substantial element of restoration of justice is punishment for the crime. Turks and Turkophiles sit reluctantly well with some sort of “theoretical” restoration of justice, but whenever it may come to punishment resulting in apology on behalf of their nation, as well as reparations and land restitution, they may stigmatize these practical measures as “vengeance”. In other words, seek justice until you become red in the face, but whenever you come closer to punishment we will call it “vengeance”.

By the way, tokado, punishment, which you call “vengeance”, does make a perfect sense because the prescribed punishment for genocide, as stated by the 1948 UN Genocide Convention, is not subject to the limitations of time and place.

tokado, could you try to explain to us the peculiarities of “Turkish logic”, so to speak? If all actors of the 1915 are already dead, then what prevents your state from acknowledging their crimes? Are you hoping for their return as zombies?

“Turks and Turkophiles sit reluctantly well with some sort of “theoretical” restoration of justice”

Wow now your generalizations include Turkophiles. Racism is dripping from every paragraph that you write.

“By the way, tokado, punishment, which you call “vengeance”, does make a perfect sense because the prescribed punishment for genocide, as stated by the 1948 UN Genocide Convention, is not subject to the limitations of time and place.”

I didn’t call vengeance punishment. So your words based on assumptions. Throw it to the trash…

could you try to explain to us the peculiarities of “Turkish logic”,

Again I didn’t use the words “Turkish logic”. And again racism… You try to advocate for justice, yet you are racist. And there is no point to argue with a racist.

According to dictionary, ”Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent.”

“Turks and Turkophiles sit reluctantly well with some sort of “theoretical” restoration of justice”

You said ” Wow now your generalizations include Turkophiles. Racism is dripping from every paragraph that you write. ”

How can it be considered as a racism? You are using the term ”racism” improperly if not wrongly. I have not seen any racism in any paragraphs in this page.

Tokado, it is pretty serious to accuse someone of making racist remarks without understanding what the racism term means.

For instance, based on my or others observation, if I say 30% (just a hypothetical percentage ) of Turks are denialist Turks it is not racism. If I say denialist Turks have been doing this and that, it is not a racist remark either. Now, if I say that Turks have been genetically coded in a way that makes them denialist it will be a racist remark. (Please note, I just brought up an example; I do not think it is true.)

This approach seems similar to dig to find an opening in the law by closely investigating the words and not the common sense. Since it is not a court room, instead of going to a dictionary I’ll use common sense.

Usually you say 30% of Turks are denialist. Full stop. If you say …. are denialist Turks, then it sounds like you use the term “denialist Turk” as an adjective. So your 30% is generalization, but “denialist Turk” is an attachment of bad attribute to an entire race/population. This I consider racism.

I mean come on, do you say “This banana is yellow banana”? no… It’s the same…

I understand that people here wants to find an opponent to calm their anger and satisfy their ego. So anyone who doesn’t bash Turkey automatically becomes an enemy. I don’t understand that.

I am surprised at your reply. I would expect a better answer from you.

You cannot call it racism if it does not constitute racism. It is just plain wrong ethically and morally.

I did not say ”Usually you say 30% of Turks are denialist” Why are you forcing me to admit something that I did not say?

I said, for instance, BASED ON MY OR OTHERS OBSERVATION, if I say 30% (just a hypothetical percentage ) of Turks are denialist Turks it is not racism.

”BASED ON MY OR OTHERS OBSERVATION” means I or others carried out an observation/survey, and based on that observation/survey (let’s say of 10,000.00 interviewed Turks 3,000.00 Turks denied the Armenian genocide) I can say that 30% of Turks are denialist Turks when it comes to Armenian genocide.

”So your 30% is generalization, but “denialist Turk” is an attachment of bad attribute to an entire race/population. This I consider racism.”

No, I said that 30% is a hypothetical percentage. And if the observations/survey confirm that 30% of Turks deny the Armenian genocide the ” denialist” term will be attached to 30% of population not entire population. And, even with that you cannot generalize that all Turks are denialist because 30% is not a majority.

hmmm I guess I wan’t clear enough. Those were not what I was trying to say.

“You cannot call it racism if it does not constitute racism. It is just plain wrong ethically and morally.”

It does, that’s my point. Using the term “denialist Turk” in the phrase “….. of Turks are denialist Turks” is racism. Because the way is used clearly attach the adjective “Denialist” to the word “Turk” making it also sound like an adjective, thus making it a property of the word Turk. Since the word Turk represents all Turks, it is racism.

I am protesting on the language not the context. So, the phrase ”Usually you say 30% of Turks are denialist” was just an example of the grammatical structure of the phrase. I know that you haven’t said such I thing. Here “you” doesn’t mean you Sella, it means “one usually says”. Sorry for the confusion.

When we come to the banana issue :-), it’s still the language. One would says “this banana is yellow”, not “this banana is yellow banana” unless he/she is writing a children’s book or work at Nickelodeon. :-P

Anyways, the subject went from the Easter to yellow bananas. And I am now tired and hungry.

”hmmm I guess I wan’t clear enough. Those were not what I was trying to say”

You are either giving political answers or are simply claiming that those were not the things that you wanted to say without telling what exactly you wanted to say.

“It does, that’s my point. Using the term “denialist Turk” in the phrase “….. of Turks are denialist Turks” is racism. Because the way is used clearly attach the adjective “Denialist” to the word “Turk” making it also sound like an adjective, thus making it a property of the word Turk. Since the word Turk represents all Turks, it is racism.”

It DOES NOT constitute racism. Just because your common sense tells you, as you stated before, that those are racist remarks does not make them racist remarks. Racism has a clear definition and you cannot consider it racism if it does not fit the definition. If you want you can create a new term but please do not use the racist/racism term improperly. It is a very strong and negative word.

We do not say Turks are denialist Turks. Where did you get that? How can we say all Turks are denialist when you have people like RVDV, Zarakolu, Akcam, Pamuk and many others? And, let’s not forget that there are many Turks in Turkey who recognize the Armenian genocide but keep silence because they know the moment they will open their mouth Turkish prisons will call them.

I would recommend you to read ”My Grandmother” book by Fethiye Cetin if you have not read it.

Berch
“”Use your brainpan to understand that so far no court verdict said the Armenian genocide was committed because to such case was yet submitted to a court and that no one here claimed the contrary.””
If this is the case why not take the matter to the competent court and stop Turkey rewriting or distorting the history?
please do not tell me a dubious Kangaroo court action.If you advise to read me this , i would advise to read you the trials in 1915-1916 that the CUP was in full power

“Your inability to understand the simplest of things is remarkable.” Have I ever allowed myself to descent so low in insulting you, as you just did to me? What does this say about your true self whether or not you carry a Turkish passport or call Jesus Christ’s name? Have you been cleared to insult people, by chance?

I re-read your post re: why we’re talking about Arabs. I scrolled up to make sure why. And there in April 14 post you wrote: “After the Turks left, Arabs just figured it all out. What a welcome relief the British were, and the kings and dictators after that!” With all the simplicity of my mind I come to no other contemplation that you, essentially, attempt to support the idea that Turkish subjugation was better for Arabs, because once the Turks left Arabs brought on their heads their own kings and dictators who were, in your opinion, worse than the Turks. Is this not what you meant? Please enlighten us, poor simpletons, daring to enter into discussion with you.

My response to this was clear and unambiguous: “whatever Arab kings and Arab dictators did to their own Arab people should not concern unrelated Turks. What should concern Turks is what crimes they committed against non-Turks”.

I showed that I have more connections to Arabs given my family history and that their relationships with the Turks are not easy. Nor have they forgotten Ottoman repressions and killings. Nor can they—representatives of a distinct civilization, pioneer astronomers, geographers, mathematicians, philosophers, theologians, chemists, architects, travelers, and inventors—be compared with the Turks.

You should not get clearance from anyone about what you can say about Arabs, but as a bearer of a Turkish passport, you’d better mind the nasty business of your own nation. Fair enough?

“Have I ever allowed myself to descent so low in insulting you, as you just did to me?”

….. well….. no. I admit, I got a little carried away. I, sincerely, apologize. But I have to agree with Tokado on one thing- it does appear that anyone who gives Turkey any credit on anything is viewed as, well maybe enemy is a harsh word, but certainly with distrust.

Who do you think is more racist, me uttering harmless, absolutely non-detrimental words that you qualified as racist, such as “Turks and Turkophiles sit reluctantly well with some sort of “theoretical” restoration of justice” and “Turkish logic”, or your nation that in its most recent history has physically exterminated a whole race?

“Turkophiles” is not a generalization, let alone “racism dripping from every paragraph”. Before you popped up on these pages we had a couple of non-Turks (who lived in or were associated with Turkey in the past) expressing viewpoints close to the mainstream denialist opinion dominating in your country.
What is “racist” in my request, as a non-Turk, to explain to us the peculiarities of Turkish logic? Don’t you agree that any nation has its peculiar, distinct national characteristics, habits, traditions, customs, and mentality? For instance, as an Armenian I could not, even under orders and full of fury, bash an infant’s head against the wall, but an Ottoman Turk could. Besides, have you noticed “so to speak” after “Turkish logic”? Have you noticed that the words “Turkish logic” are put in quotes? What does this tell you?

Thus, I repeat: could you explain the peculiarities of “Turkish logic”, so to speak: If all actors of the 1915 are already dead, then what prevents your state from acknowledging their crimes? Are you hoping for their return as zombies?

“But I have to agree with tokado on one thing- it does appear that anyone who gives Turkey any credit on anything is viewed as, well maybe enemy is a harsh word, but certainly with distrust.”

tokado doesn’t put it as mildly as you, RVDV. He outrightly calls people “racists” even when most non-detrimental words are uttered. Distrust? Well, yes. How would you treat a neighbor of yours who savagely slaughtered all of your family members, moved into your house, appropriated all of your family’s properties, demolished your ancestral cultural edifices, and for years afterwards insists that nothing of the kind happened for which he owes you an apology? With trust?

This is typically denialist Turkish. Like wolfs, they will jump on anything they would perceive as being distantly derogatory (even though it is not) and go rounds accusing Armenians of racism, simplicity of mind, even being funny people, as yahya the idiot here once said. Anything BUT an honest account (or an apology—did I say apology? oooh, what a frightening word for the Turks!) on what in their opinion had happened to the millions of indigenous Christians who inhabited Asia Minor and the Armenian Highlands for millennia. Note how many times I requested tokado here to offer his or her opinion on the issue because he or she said that Turks’ opinion was different. See what they do? Just as their state evades justice for Armenians, these individual denialist Turks evade even sharing opinion as to where Ottoman Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontic Greeks are. Where are their houses, orchards, pastures, their religious, cultural, educational, communal institutions, their personal properties, bank accounts, insurance indemnities? Instead, they will cling to your hypothetical percentage of 30% of Turks who are denialist, or my phrase “Turks and Turkophiles sit reluctantly well with some sort of ‘theoretical’ restoration of justice” as being racist. In other words, nothing on the substance of the debate. The only person I have come across so far who admitted that there certainly was genocide and he feels sorry for the mass murdered enormity of people is RVDV, but he is a Kurd (at least this is what he says).

After I saw how Erdogan publicly announced that their was no Armenian genocide and started talking about Azeri genocide (Khojali) by Armenians I am still speechless and nothing can surprise me when it comes to this country.

What kind of logic one should have to call the killing of 600 (debatable) people out of 9 million-a genocide but 1.5million out of 2-2.2 million-not? Never mind that Azeri government had a role in Khojali tragedy.
Since we are not going to change our location we have to learn to deal with this country, its politicians and people, something, that we have not done so far.

Tokado, is ‘Turkish’ a race? I think not. At least I don’t think Papa Turk and the other Kemalists would say so. Berch is not a racist. He may use stereotyping and prejudice when speaking of Turks, but so do you when speaking of Armenians. Please stop using such inflammatory rhetoric. It serves nothing. Stick with the issue. Does Turkey have an obligation to pay for the Armenian genocide or not? And if so, how? Do Armenians have a right to pursue justice or not?

Tokado, I can’t imagine what you may have written to cause the editors to not publish your comment. I would prefer that the moderators not censors comments except in the rarest of cases.

On the eve of April 24th, I feel I can’t let your above comment go without a response.

First of all, I never said that I thought it was good or okay to use stereotyping or prejudice toward anyone. I only meant to point out that Berch’s use of it isn’t the same as racism in my opinion and that I think your charge of racism against him is inflammatory (needlessly provocative). I also wished to point out that I consider you to be using prejudice and stereotyping against Armenians when you say this site is ‘full of hate’. You are entitled to your opinion, but I think if you reread the comments with an open mind you will see there are comments of many kinds here and Armenians are capable of distinguishing anger against the denialist and unrepentant government from any hatred toward ordinary Turkish citizens. In addition, it is possible and acceptable to hate a sin and not the sinner. This is what the Armenian faith teaches us.

Further, I believe you use prejudice and stereotyping against Armenians when you suggest it is an act of ‘aggression’ for the author of the above article to strive for genocide recognition after 100 years. Apparently you find the following excerpt an example of diaspora Armenian aggressiveness:

“As children of the first nation to adopt Christianity, we celebrate this holiest of days by calling upon all of our brothers and sisters in faith worldwide–Christians, Muslims, Jews, believers of all denominations and faiths, and those who hold no faith–to join with us in offering a prayer for the Armenian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Syriac, Pontian, Greek, and other victims of the Ottoman Empire’s World War I-era genocide of its Christian minorities.”

I will pray ‘aggressively’ for you and your nation tonight. I pray an act of God opens your eyes to the animosity that clouds your vision of the truth. I want no harm to come to you or your family, but your nation must pay for its crime against humanity.

To Berch,
Belatedly.I did not write NOT to defend our positions.Waht I tried to convey is IT I S HARD VERY HARD TO CHANGE MINDSET OF DENIALIST TURKS.
They are adamant in their racist/fascist drive to subdue others..that has to be acknowledged by us.if we do succeed to change a few pebbles in the ocean,then that is what you strive for. Thjeir thick -like their thick-headed stance, will hardly give in.We <NEED CLOUT FORCE, BOTH HUMAN RESOURCES,WELL ORGANIZED ( NOT JUST 3/4% aRMENIAN POILITICAL PARTY MEMBERS ) AS WELL AS FINANCIAL POWER. We can muster that up.Not like Aznavour Charles just a few minutes ago in L.a. (interview on armen T.V-. said-like my friend in L.A. T.V.for yrs went on saying Former asked for a $5.- from couple million people per month, latter $1.- in order to imageine that we have Financial Power and can out do the turks..
Humbug /Hogwash. We need B I L L I O N S of dolars and we can only muster that up.thrpough a 100,000 member PCA´s (prof. Colelagues Assoc. mmembes9 Nucleus of the National trust Fund by our Magnates, 6/7 of them each wiht a few hundred million bucks to come up to a First Billion dollar tRUST FUND Not donations—–moiney stays in Fund in Geneva, then our millionaires down to 100 dolalrs INVESTORS..
fOR MY FRIENDS DO NOT REALIZE THAT OUR PEOPLE HAVE TIRED OF DONATING.They will indeed now and then throw in a few dolllars.
I thin I said enough .Please enter and read method way to achieve above in……..www.armeniannews.info….click on User subs. Artiocles thnaks if you dothen opine Each one article deals with ONE OR TWO PARTICULAR ISSUES.all VERY CONTEMPORARY…