Spoilers or hints about future events must not be posted in this thread.If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message, or seek out a more appropriate thread.

Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.

Be polite to your fellow forum members.

Please try to keep the discussion on-topic.

Do not post multiple times in a row. Please edit your existing post if you wish to add additional thoughts.

Episode Thread Spoiler Policy

Any comment that discloses events, characters, plot or other information before it is revealed in the anime is expressly forbidden whether or not it is behind spoiler tags.Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Please consult the AnimeSuki Spoiler Policy for more information.

Adding a Spoiler tag:

Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a useful title!

Please use the Report button if you see any inappropriate spoilers:

Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
locate and deal with problems quickly.

Posting inappropriate spoilers may result in a ban.Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.

thundrakkon

2012-10-24 00:32

After reading through the general thread for episode 4, this episode is still confusing. Yes, there were a ton of data given to us, but then again, it brought up a lot of question. Most of the question is "how come?" or "what happened?"

Out of all the information given, nothing was stated about the queerats. How did they come to being? Are they mutated humans?

I love this series.

Warm Mist

2012-10-24 04:45

It didn't seem really confusing. For me it was more that the episode was tacitly posing more questions than the amount of answers it was giving.

I like that approach to mystery, and my favourite types of mysteries are the ones revolving the setting, so I'm okay with all the information that is being held as of now. I hope the reveals are progressive and well handled, and not an exposition talk at ep 23 or something like that.

It's funny how apparently scientists created the society the kids live in, but that society looks completely based on religion.

Kirarakim

2012-10-24 09:31

What I found most interesting was their society supposedly developed from the group that kept the knowledge of technology and yet the concept of technology still seems to have been completely wiped from the society.

Of course there was the library which seems to be a remnant of a technological society but according to the man that took their powers it’s “a demon”. Now is that because of the information it disclosed or because of something else.

Additionally while I trust what the library was saying is at least partially correct, I wonder if there is still information missing. That perhaps it shouldn’t be trusted completely, that there are still holes to be filled.

Also I find the concept that you feel intense pain if you want to harm someone to be pretty fascinating. But I guess something like that had to have developed when you see how easy it was to harm someone with their power. But then it’s more fascinating that their supposedly non-violent society is not by free will but by something controlling them and what would happen if that control was gone…

Still there are theories that we don’t kill each other because of biological reasons too so it's not much different lol.

However, the rat people (or whatever) don’t seem to have the same controls and it seems they can be harmed (although it still affected the priest). I personally believe the rat people are humans that devolved somehow: they are less than human according to that society but still very much human.

Malkuth

2012-10-24 10:02

Let's not forget that "the library" said almost nothing about what happened during the last 500 years!

flack

2012-10-24 10:12

The most intense first 15 minutes in all the anime's I saw this year. Had to see it twice to fully understand. Now I can't wait for the next episode.

hai_san

2012-10-24 13:09

Great ep, still more mystery, can't wait to see how the drama unfolds... SSY is my most anticipate anime this season.

Kanon

2012-10-24 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkuth
(Post 4410468)

Let's not forget that "the library" said almost nothing about what happened during the last 500 years!

Indeed, we don't know much about what happened in the past 500 years. Only that the scientists attempted to build a peaceful society of PKers. Are they still in charge? Doubtful. If they were, there would probably be more technology around, and knowledge of past history wouldn't be forbidden.

There are still a lot of mysteries to uncover.

SagaraSouske

2012-10-24 17:06

It is pretty much spelled out through Shun that the scientist faction is in fact in control of the current society. The various methods that were introduced to restrict PK users from abusing their powers - genetic manipulation, psychological conditioning, social engineering, etc, are even more proof of that. The question, however, needs to be asked is that why did they choose to abandon certain technologies or at least hidden their use from plain view.

Utsuro no Hako

2012-10-24 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske
(Post 4410882)

It is pretty much spelled out through Shun that the scientist faction is in fact in control of the current society. The various methods that were introduced to restrict PK users from abusing their powers - genetic manipulation, psychological conditioning, social engineering, etc, are even more proof of that. The question, however, needs to be asked is that why did they choose to abandon certain technologies or at least hidden their use from plain view.

I'm reluctant to accept anything the kids say as being more probable than our random speculations. The way Shun said it, he sounded like he was trying to convince himself.

orion

2012-10-24 20:03

I also don't think that the scientists are still in charge. The scientific rules and practices are now a religion. Something else must have happened within the last 500 yrs. Maybe there's another living library that could give us the answer if they find it.

Warm Mist

2012-10-24 21:07

The scientists being in charge and the whole 'religion' thing are reconciliable with some explanations akin to the Bonobos explanation we had this ep.

Maybe religion is a much more effective form of mass manipulation than just being transparent and having the -non mystical, less fearsome- technology and science out in the open. The population feels more compelled to obey divine rules and dogmas regarding their 'Cantus' than just abiding by traditional, liberal democracy-like laws about their 'PK'.

Just a thought. Seeing as how the latest 500 years are left in the void, it is entirely possible that the technocrats were replaced, wiped out, or just faded away and left the rest of the world totally ignorant about the very basis of the society they live in.

Grey

2012-10-24 21:14

Thoughts on that exploding creature at the end? I'm leaning 60:40 between bio-tech and PK.

Maybe I'll give a 5% chance that the kids are delusional because of heavy hypnosis and the Queerats are really powerless humans. And one dying guy set off some explosives he had on him.

That reminds me: motive. Why attack the monk? And didn't they know how dangerous he was? The Library told us a bit about the past but there are still so many mysteries.

neshru

2012-10-24 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey
(Post 4411147)

Thoughts on that exploding creature at the end? I'm leaning 60:40 between bio-tech and PK.

The thing called itself a library. Looked like some really high tech storage device to me.
Unless you meant the thing at the very end of the episode.

Xiammes

2012-10-24 23:06

I believe the reason why the scientists used religion as a means to make the perfect society is because they are less likely to question it. When you have a religion, things are what they appear to be and hardly anyone gives a second thought about it. Anyone who breaks away from the norm is weeded out like the plague.

I think the scientists are still in charge, as leaders in the society, the system doesn't look self sustainable as with evidence of so many people vanishing.

SagaraSouske

2012-10-24 23:42

Just because the science faction are in control does not mean they cannot use religion as a tool to shape society, at least for a period of time. That's precisely what the foundation did during the early rise out of the dark ages to control the warlord systems near Terminus.

There are no other faction that can apply genetic manipulation to introduce the wolf trait as well shame to death trait. The fact that the kids and the monk are still under the effect of these genetic modification is one sign that the scientist are still on control.

The school and the social control that removes trouble some kids is another sign. It takes knowledge and training in psycho analysis to accurately predict the correct candidates to be eliminated. The system being used in the school, family and the 'religion' are psychological conditioning that would require science faction to maintain.

Blaat

2012-10-25 03:12

The library said that the scientific group was responsible for still publishing books in the first 500 years after the fall of civilization. This same group was responsible for all the observations about the Holy Cherry Blossom Empire that's why the library had so much information about it.
And yet later the same library said that there are no reliable sources in the past 500 years.
The only logical conclusion one can draw from this is that the scientific group no longer exist because if they did there would be plenty of reliable sources for the library in the past 500 years.

And if the scientific group no longer exist they can't be in control of the society. I'm guessing they were wiped out and replaced by a religious group which took over the local customs. Or the scientific society turned into a religious one.

SagaraSouske

2012-10-25 12:47

The records were complete up to the demise of the slave dynasties some 570 years after the war is because the science faction were on the side lines observing and keeping records. Once they took action, they may have choose not to actively record the actions they themselves take in the public archive such as the library. The minoshiro are a fairly recent phenomena also, as in the last a couple hundred years. Who else could have created them besides the scientists?

IMO the religion is but a facade. A means to enact control over the current society. It's a mask for psychological conditioning and social terra-forming. I highly doubt those higher up in charge believe in the religion at all except as a damping mechanism that works well in keeping PK users in check.