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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

I may be the minority here, but "swiping off" isn't as big an inconvenience as you all are making it to be. It is an ADDED inconvenience, but not a great one.

I'm not sure if it's implemented here, but in Korea it's required to "swipe off" when exiting a bus because the system knows that you've just gotten off a bus, and when you're transferring to another bus/subway, you have a 30 minute window so you don't get charged again.

For example:
10:00 get on bus
10:45 get off bus (no swipe).
11:00 get on second bus. The system sees that your last "swipe" was an hour ago, and you pay again for the second bus. But if you do swipe when you get off, it sees you were just transferring and you don't have to pay again.

TransLink blames its budget crunch on lower-than-expected gasoline tax revenues and a lack of a long-term funding source for transportation projects. Besides forcing cuts to existing services, it means TransLink can-not afford additional buses or other services in the next three years.

The transportation authority had been hoping to raise another $30 million annually through a two-year temporary property tax increase for 2013-14, but it was vetoed by the TransLink mayors' council at the last minute. A proposed fare increase was also rejected.

Carbon tax not good enough for you? worst financial mgmt for a crown corporation is an understatement

VANCOUVER – Curbing some expansion plans and aggressive cost cutting are in the future for Translink after a considerable revenue shortfall not foreseen by previous plans.

Translink says it is still committed to the Evergreen Line project scheduled for completion in 2016.

It also promises to provide 109,000 new hours of transit service.

Translink officials say there will still be room for rapid bus service on Highway 1 over the Port Mann Bridge from Langley to New Westminster, and B-line service between Newton and Guildford.

Translink is also not buckling on the upgrades envisioned for seven stations on the aging Expo Line.

But Executive Vice President of Translink Robert Paddon warns they are facing a number of fiscal challenges that are forcing them to rethink plans going forward, and reduce some of the services.

For one, Translink’s 2011 plan included additional 306,000 hours of bus service that the transit authority says it simply can’t afford.

Other victims of lower revenues include expanded SeaBus service on Sundays and holidays, Lonsdale Quay upgrade, funding for cycling programs, full Highway 1 Rapid Bus project and King George Blvd B-Line to White Rock.

“From here on in, Translink is going to be working within its means,” said Paddon. “This is going to have an impact on our customers. I don’t want to underplay that significance. A lot of people rely on our service…this will impact them, but at this point in time, we can still provide coverage, the bus will be there. We are not cutting bus services…we hope we don’t have to go there.”

He says the cuts will also affect Translink’s employees, including recovery time for bus drivers and getting rid of spare buses, which may mean delays during break-downs.

Paddon says there are a number of factors that are affecting their bottom line of $472 million in total revenue deficit.

The toll revenue from the Golden Ears Bridge is projected to be off by $38 million.

The total fare revenue is expected to be down by $108 million. Part of it comes from the decision of Translink commissioner to reject a proposed 12.5 per cent fare increase for 2013. Another portion comes from the expanded service not being put in place.

But the biggest hit comes from the loss of fuel tax revenue, which Translink predicts will be in the realm of 144 million dollars.

It says Metro Vancouver’s total fuel consumption fell considerably in recent years due to increasing gas prices and a growing number of people driving across the boarder to fill up.

On top of that, the transit authority is still missing an alternative for the $30 million revenue it was expected to get from the property tax hike, which got vetoed down by Metro Vancouver mayors earlier this year.

Translink Board Chair Nancy Olewiler says they are still in negotiations with the mayors despite their decision, at the time of which she says neither the mayors nor Translink were aware of the real extent of the fuel revenue shortfall.

“There’s new information that has come forward since then, and the mayors have that information now. We will wait and see what they wish to do. The world has evolved…, so we will see what unfolds” says Olewiler.

TransLink will be consulting with stakeholders and the public to discuss the draft plan before it is finalized by November 1 and submitted to the Transportation Commissioner for review.

Paddon says there are a number of factors that are affecting their bottom line of $472 million in total revenue deficit.

1. The toll revenue from the Golden Ears Bridge is projected to be off by $38 million.

2. The total fare revenue is expected to be down by $108 million. Part of it comes from the decision of Translink commissioner to reject a proposed 12.5 per cent fare increase for 2013. Another portion comes from the expanded service not being put in place.

3. But the biggest hit comes from the loss of fuel tax revenue, which Translink predicts will be in the realm of 144 million dollars.

4. $30 million revenue it was expected to get from the property tax hike

I personally don't think the bridges were done right. I know, I know, there is going to be a lot of people from ridge/meadows and Langley saying "but the bridge is soo convenient" yes, that's true, and its true that usage will increase once Port Mann is tolled, but I don't think the demand is there *yet* for that bridge. If you had done the Port Mann first, thus alleviating some of the bottleneck for the shorter term, THEN you could have put in the Goldenears to go forward...but thats just me.

I guess I'm saying that I believe it totally makes sense that they aren't making the expected revenue from the Goldenears. It was predicted by others.

2. Fare revenue is down, and in part blamed on the lack of a 12.5% increase. NO man...its already expensive! It used to be that a car was WAY more than a bus pass...now, not so much. Sure, driving is still expensive, and gas is more, but for those that can, you get your own car, that will take you to exactly where you want to go, without the problems associated with mass transit(ie. douchebags/bums) So a lot of people are going to choose cars over busses.

3. Fuel...you brought on yourself. Why is gas SO much more cheaper in the states? Less tax. The oil itself is a global commodity. YOU go too far, and that drive to the states becomes more worthwhile. So what do you do? Add another 2 cents in tax to compensate, making it more expensive, thus increasing the amount of people that buy elsewhere. It's a vicious circle and it doesn't work. Stop.

4. Another tax hike as the answer to the problems. Wrong. Finally, the mayors got it right on this one.

The problem with Translink is, Translink doesn't know what the problem is. That's obvious. in true fashion, a bloated, organization with too much under their control thinks money is the solution, and lack of money is the problem. Pour more in to fill the hole..stop when its full.

Operating under that philosophy is what is going to have them never meet a budget. They are used to always operating in deficit, which is obvious as transit is never even going to be a break-even operation. So it gets topped up with tax dollars. Fine.

But they've been in a building spree mode, and you can't even let one project generate a little revenue before you are off building something else. You can always find a new project that is going to always make sense and help all these people and be great for a community-but leadership is having a good plan, a responsible plan and for sticking to it. Saying no, holding off a little bit when you need to.

And I can't always blame Translink, because they are a political tool like any other. They get handed a politicians plan for "we want a bridge...here" and have to go with it at that point.

I'd like to see them have a reasonable budget, do what they can to cut costs where possible and move forward on high impact projects for the region, not community specific.

Cole notes: some buse routes have crazy-pass ups especially at night and the last bus of the evening

instead of adding service they want to have a security guard on board to deal with 'unruly passengers' with another guard tails the bus in a car behind.

I would like to know how much more it would cost to run extra buses over paying 2 guards and their patrol vehicle

So glad I don't take transit regularly any more

The carbon tax doesn't go to Translink - it goes into general revenue for the province. The cities have lobbying the province to have those revenues directed back to cities for initiatives like public transit, but the Liberals won't budge.

Transit security gets paid about $30/hour. It may cost more to run a bus considering the driver, diesel, and wear and tear.

Transit is definitely an issue that gets people riled up. In my experience, transit is quite good - I take Skytrain and my commute is about a half-hour each way. One thing that upsets me as a supporter of public transit is that there's so much mis-information and ignorance about the issue. To be fair, Translink is definitely not the most well-run organization, but to compare it against more established and more well-funded systems in the world is simply ludicrous.Posted via RS Mobile

they get all that extra $ from all those taxes yet they still say they are under a deficit

Such as? Translink is funded by small fees from property taxes, your Hydro bill, some investments and fares. That's it. The only option Translink really has is to sell some of its land and the merits of that are highly debatable.

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+ they have to hire security for late night buses since they are getting jammed packed full of people and have to skip some stops.. seriously? they cant just add more buses? WTF

Rumour has it that a bus costs about $100/hour to operate. A transit security guard makes $60K/year. Do the math.

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on top of that they are continuing on with the evergreen line.

The Evergreen Line has been in regional transit plans for over 20 years. It's about time the Tri-Cities got something.

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transit was preety reliable at times but in 2013 it will prob be better to drive in most circumstances

If you live in the Valley, driving is of course better. But, you can easily get around Vancouver and Burnaby using transit.

Imagine trying to get off the bus at broadway or metrotown or any other major loop. Next thing you know, buses are going to be late even more cuz 70 people offloaded at broadway and commercial! Also think about the elderly that now need to do more shit to get off the bus with their walkers.

i could see "swipe in" and "swipe off" working. but you do bring up a valid point in regards to major loops. most (if not all) major loops are terminus stations for buses. in that case, it's possible to make it so that you don't have to "swipe off" at the terminus station. the system would automatically "swipe off" for you.

Swiping on exiting the bus is not a big deal. Many places around the world already do this.

Having experienced a similar system myself, I found the convenience of having an exact fare deducted from a cash card much outweighs the minor inconvenience of swiping a card on the way out.

I would bet this is just a poorly written article. Why would one "tap" to get on but then have to "swipe" to get off. I would assuming they are RFID cards and that you tap to get on and tap to get off. Removing the card from your wallet or purse may not even be necessary.

Yes it will take a small amount of time for people to get used to it but there are so many other transit-related things to complain about besides this.

While I'm not a fan of transit, some of you are adding up the total costs of a day's worth of transit travelling by adding in multiple three-zone passes. Unless you're seriously dumb enough to constantly pay $5 passes for every time, at least two times a day, then you start need to looking at the other fare options Translink offers. Y'know, day passes ($9 for an entire day), fare savers ($4.20/3 zone trip) or a monthly pass ($151 for unlimited trips).

And even if you're forced to pay for two separate $5 tickets, a round trip costs less than what someone on minimum wage makes in an hour. I'm pretty confident most of us can easily afford that on a daily basis, should the need arise.

reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.

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lol when the ever green line is done expect huge line ups at Lougheed station, brentwood station, Rupert and expect tons and tons of wait time at Boardway station during rush hour.

Is already bad enough as it is (sometimes if you are unlucky you have to wait a few skytrains at Boardway). Now cope with an 30% increase passenger and BAM people will be waiting even longer. Not to mention if something goes wrong expect at least 40mins delays.

The ever green line is needed for sure but I bet you translink will fuck it up and cause major issue.

If translink doesn't turn its skytrain network a distanced based system, it will be all for nothing.

The idea of zones were so arbitrary to begin with and the ONLY reason it existed was because we did not have turnstiles/faregates to check in where the person is travelling to. With the smartcard and faregates, this solves all those issues and being progressive, we should go to distance based rates vs. random zone patterns.

The more you use something, the more it should cost you. It isn't a new idea and now that we have the solution, we should use it.

I agree, the zone system is crap. Here in Victoria the ENTIRE Greater Victoria region is a single zone. It's kind of ridiculous that someone can ride from Sooke to Sidney (57kms) for the same price that it takes my wife and I to bus downtown from our house (3km).

A cab ride is only $10 for us to downtown, the bus is $5. I consider it more cost effective to cab, getting a quicker, direct ride without needing to be amongst with all the smelly weirdos or drunks is worth that extra $5.

If I was designing the system, I'd have users "swipe in" to get on the bus - no issues with that. BUT use RFID/NFC to auto deduct when they get off the bus!

Imagine trying to get off the bus at broadway or metrotown or any other major loop. Next thing you know, buses are going to be late even more cuz 70 people offloaded at broadway and commercial! Also think about the elderly that now need to do more shit to get off the bus with their walkers.

its funny how in HK & china, they use the exact same system u just mentioned but i guess it too hard for them to understand

If I was designing the system, I'd have users "swipe in" to get on the bus - no issues with that. BUT use RFID/NFC to auto deduct when they get off the bus!

Imagine trying to get off the bus at broadway or metrotown or any other major loop. Next thing you know, buses are going to be late even more cuz 70 people offloaded at broadway and commercial! Also think about the elderly that now need to do more shit to get off the bus with their walkers.

My initial impression upon reading that riders will need to swipe departing the vehicle was the same as yours, but as I mentally pictured the line of riders swiping cards and stepping off the bus it didn't seem quite so bad. Only one or two riders are slowly getting off at a time anyway, so I don't think this will slow things down to much; only time will tell I suppose.

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TransLink to charge at all park-and-rides

Free parking will end at TransLink park-and-ride lots as the authority moves to pull in more cash.

Most lots already charged, but the shift to all pay parking will come as a shock to motorists who use the 10 free lots, such as the South Surrey park-and-ride.

Other free park-and-rides include lots in Ladner and Tsawwassen in Delta; Walnut Grove in Langley; Sexsmith in Richmond; Phibbs exchange, Park Royal mall, Westmount and Gleneagles on the North Shore.

It may also mean users of the new 650-space Carvolth park-and-ride in Langley will also have to shell out to park there to take the new Highway 1 Rapid Bus.

Provincial government officials said just last week there was no plan to charge motorists there but added it would be TransLink's decision after Victoria hands over the nearly finished park-and-ride.

A minimum of $2 a day will be charged, according to TransLink's new draft 2013 plan, which was unveiled Monday.

"Prices will vary depending on the local markets," TransLink vice-president Bob Paddon said Monday. "It will bring us much needed revenues."

TransLink projects it will raise $2.2 million by charging at the free lots and raising the prices at some of the pay lots.

The South Surrey park-and-ride is already heavily overcrowded, which led TransLink this year to start towing incorrectly parked vehicles.

Paddon said imposing pay parking should give motorists much better odds of finding a space at crowded lots in the future.

The hope is that more drivers who use park and rides will simply leave their cars at home and catch feeder buses nearby to avoid the parking fees.

TransLink plans to develop more park and rides in the future, including ones to serve the Evergreen Line in Port Moody and Coquitlam.

I'm not sure how I feel about charging at park-and-rides overall, but if 3,500 of the 4,300 spaces already have a small daily fee it makes sense to tighten things up.

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TransLink suspends improvements to Langley communities

Metro Vancouver’s once-cohesive approach to transit funding is unravelling rapidly in the wake of TransLink’s announcement Tuesday that it is immediately suspending major transit improvements for the southern suburbs.

Mayors from the two Langley municipalities say their residents are getting shafted by the Translink decision after years of paying for transit in other parts of the region with property taxes and now a new gas-tax increase.

Political process makes for a slow commute
TransLink suspends improvements to Langley communities
Mayors, TransLink grapple with $45-million transit question
“For years, the residents in the eastern part of the region have been supporting those in the west with their tax dollars,” said Township of Langley Mayor Jack Froese. “They feel all they do here is pay for the Evergreen Line with their gas taxes. To take away the funding now, it’s unacceptable. This is just playing politics. I’m extremely disappointed.”

The TransLink announcement follows a vote by the region’s 21 mayors – the two from Langley and Mayor Wayne Baldwin in White Rock opposed the move – to call for the cancellation of parts of the three-year plan. They’ve been unable to get the provincial government to agree on some form of alternative funding for the project. Last week’s vote, however, was considered informal and doesn’t legally cancel the plan.

Mr. Froese said families in Langley have bought housing near the park-and-ride lot being constructed to mesh with the planned new Highway 1 rapid bus, one of several pieces of TransLink’s three-year supplementary plan that is now being put on hold until the agency is certain is has the money to pay for them. Now those residents will be left in the lurch, he said.

The Highway 1 rapid bus was supposed to start when the new Port Mann bridge opened some time within the next year. The bridge in the $3.3-billion project includes special rapid-bus lanes, which the province’s website boasts will help get commuters from Langley to Burnaby in 25 minutes.

Other pieces of the plan that TransLink CEO Ian Jarvis said would be frozen include a rapid bus along King George Boulevard in Surrey, most of the additional 615,000 hours of service that was being planned, much of it for south of the Fraser River, extra SeaBus service on evenings and weekends, and planned upgrades to several stations.

“We don’t have [certainty]of revenue at this particular time,” said Mr. Jarvis. “We have put expansion and upgrade plans on hold.”

But Langley city Mayor Peter Fassbender also said he believes it’s unacceptable for Mr. Jarvis to make a unilateral decision to suspend the projects, without a formal vote by the mayors to revise the three-year plan.

The mayors had originally agreed to pay for the plan, which included the Evergreen Line, by approving a two-cent gas-tax increase for the Evergreen and a temporary property-tax increase for the other improvements. They did this in the hope the province would agree to replace that second tax with some other form of funding.

However, the mayors did not actually rescind that original plan, which is a legal document.

“My understanding of the legal opinion is that it has to come back for a legal vote to make a change. I’m going to ask my colleagues to put their names on the line and tell Langley residents that they’re against those projects moving ahead,” said Mr. Fassbender. “I put my name on the line for the two cents of gas tax for the Evergreen. “

He and Mr. Froese said that mayors who supported that plan originally voted for it knowing that they might not be able to work out an agreement with the province on an alternative funding source in time for 2013.

Now that that might be a reality, they’re not willing to stick to their positions, they said.

The TransLink announcement Wednesday is just the latest in a rolling series of setbacks and squabbles that have beset the organization since the start of 2012.

It hasn’t been able to get an agreement from the province about an alternative, like a regional carbon tax or vehicle levy, to pay for additional services. The province’s transportation commissioner last week denied TransLink’s application to raise fares more than the normally allowable amount to pay for the existing service level. And mayors are at odds with each other on a number of fronts.TransLink suspends improvements to Langley communities - The Globe and Mail

I'm furious about the potential cancellation of the rapid-bus route.

If the rapid-bus goes into place, it will be a game changer for transit in the Valley. No longer will a long bus ride meandering through Surrey be necessary to access the Skytrain or cross the river by transit. A direct, fast, and very practical link would finally exist. Translink it strapped for cash though, so it might be canceled. My answer to that, cut a couple Vancouver routes to make room in the budget, because this will have a much more significant impact to an area that has been paying up and receiving little in exchange for decades.

Fuck. Why even spend $54 million dollars building the new park-and-ride if the rapid-bus route is cancelled.

I think for me the only issue with the 'swipe to get off' thing is charging for three zones automatically.

Let's say I get on the 99, which goes from broadway and commercial to UBC. That's all in one zone. So you're telling me that every bus no matter which zones it does or doesn't travel through will charge three zones? That seems off to me.

I mean, I get chargins "as many zones as the bus travels through", that just makes sense. I get on the 135 in Burnaby to go DT. I usually get off at Granville and Hastings. But then, so does about half the bus, generally. That means that as everyone gets off they'll be tapping to make sure they get that dollar refund despite the fact that the bus only goes through two zones.

Property taxes aren't exactly "small fees" for Translink, it is one of their leading revenue sources.

There is also fuel tax, parking tax, plus contributions from the provincial and federal government (which let's face it, comes indirectly from other taxes).

In addition to those taxes, there is fare revenue, toll revenues, interest income, and AirCare revenues.

The shares of revenue from parking and fuel taxes are declining - people are filling up south of the border or in Abbotsford and people are modifying their shopping/commuting habits in order to avoid parking fees.

I don't pay all that much on my property taxes for Translink. I could stomach an increase if it meant better services. The source of revenue that makes the most sense is a vehicle levy, but no one has the balls to implement one.

I think for me the only issue with the 'swipe to get off' thing is charging for three zones automatically.

Let's say I get on the 99, which goes from broadway and commercial to UBC. That's all in one zone. So you're telling me that every bus no matter which zones it does or doesn't travel through will charge three zones? That seems off to me.

I mean, I get chargins "as many zones as the bus travels through", that just makes sense. I get on the 135 in Burnaby to go DT. I usually get off at Granville and Hastings. But then, so does about half the bus, generally. That means that as everyone gets off they'll be tapping to make sure they get that dollar refund despite the fact that the bus only goes through two zones.

...seems a bit odd.

I'm not sure how the system works (or will work), but I imagine specific buses don't stay on one route throughout it's service life. Chances are it's probably easier to set up each bus the same way and charge accordingly than to reset the system in each bus every time it changes its service route.