Uncle is not paying huge money to Pak with out any reason. They are themselves

saying it is the most difficult country to handle.

Yaar what big money? Khairaat? ya phir bhancho loan maaf?

Don't talk rubbish yaar! Its a pathetic country with a pathetic haalat right now! We lost 50 soldier to fukkan junglee tribals in wana!! I mean talk about a disgrace! I swear if right now India attacked us, to hamaree bhund laga dainee hae un hinduon nay! :ermm 350 obsolete aircraft will be taken care of by as many as a minimum 800-900 IAF types! Of which at least 400 are modern types, with precision munitions delivery as wel as BVR capability! And we have no answer to the MKI yet! The only somewhat modern typ in the pAf is the F-16! so you have 28 F-16's facing 40 MKI's + 75 Mig-29's + 45 Mirage-2000's!

Abaay yaar its not even a fight anymore! It will be a whole sale slaughter! :ermm

Don't talk rubbish yaar! Its a pathetic country with a pathetic haalat right now! We lost 50 soldier to fukkan junglee tribals in wana!! I mean talk about a disgrace! I swear if right now India attacked us, to hamaree bhund laga dainee hae un hinduon nay! :ermm 350 obsolete aircraft will be taken care of by as many as a minimum 800-900 IAF types! Of which at least 400 are modern types, with precision munitions delivery as wel as BVR capability! And we have no answer to the MKI yet! The only somewhat modern typ in the pAf is the F-16! so you have 28 F-16's facing 40 MKI's + 75 Mig-29's + 45 Mirage-2000's!

Abaay yaar its not even a fight anymore! It will be a whole sale slaughter! :ermm

Can you explain those 400 modern and 900 total aircrafts/

All i can recollect is 2 decades old Mirages and Mig-29 totalling 120 Aircraft.

Only 20MKI are modern. Simply adding BVR capability does not make an

aircraft modern. Mirages use SARH-Super 530D missile not MICA.

I am sure our Mirages with Grifo M will be better than MIG-29 and Indian Mirages

if you want to talk of range and speed of the Air-Surface missile.. then on the comparable thing I can say Kh-31P2 which are launched by the Mig-27's and the Su-30's.. range 200km

if we talk of future then Brahmos Air launched variant.. which will be lighter and would get into service in next 4 years I guess.. with the range of 290km.. with cool speed..

But right now as the point was the IAF has to defend.. I have already told you in the earlier posts .. some of the very limited scenarios from the IAF's side..

Right now what PAF lacks the MOST is the SEAD capability.. I will think of their strike packages more seriously once PAF demonstrates excellent SEAD capability.. because that will create the holes in the Indian Air Defence systems..

Don't talk rubbish yaar! Its a pathetic country with a pathetic haalat right now! We lost 50 soldier to fukkan junglee tribals in wana!! I mean talk about a disgrace! I swear if right now India attacked us, to hamaree bhund laga dainee hae un hinduon nay! :ermm 350 obsolete aircraft will be taken care of by as many as a minimum 800-900 IAF types! Of which at least 400 are modern types, with precision munitions delivery as wel as BVR capability! And we have no answer to the MKI yet! The only somewhat modern typ in the pAf is the F-16! so you have 28 F-16's facing 40 MKI's + 75 Mig-29's + 45 Mirage-2000's!

Abaay yaar its not even a fight anymore! It will be a whole sale slaughter! :ermm

Don't compare our Tribes with India.

Those Tribes have fought bravely against SuperPowr Soviet and British empire

thats why it is called no go Areas. Do you know how much time it took for

British in coming from Bengal to Tribal Areas. It is almost 200 Years.

if you want to talk of range and speed of the Air-Surface missile.. then on the comparable thing I can say Kh-31P2 which are launched by the Mig-27's and the Su-30's.. range 200km

if we talk of future then Brahmos Air launched variant.. which will be lighter and would get into service in next 4 years I guess.. with the range of 290km.. with cool speed..

But right now as the point was the IAF has to defend.. I have already told you in the earlier posts .. some of the very limited scenarios from the IAF's side..

Right now what PAF lacks the MOST is the SEAD capability.. I will think of their strike packages more seriously once PAF demonstrates excellent SEAD capability.. because that will create the holes in the Indian Air Defence systems..

Do you really think a 3 Ton Brahmos can be carried by an Aircraft?

And don't talk about Russian PGMs they are unreliable and in accurate. Thats

Why China is asking publicly for lifting of EU embargo. There is alot of difference

oh chupp oaay! bukvass karta hae tu? Stupid insaan! I will say what is true! Feeling bhancho should depend on the truth! Baat ko bhund par suhaga keh kar bolna is no honourable thing! Its all lies! Learn to live in reality please!

oh chupp oaay! bukvass karta hae tu? Stupid insaan! I will say what is true! Feeling bhancho should depend on the truth! Baat ko bhund par suhaga keh kar bolna is no honourable thing! Its all lies! Learn to live in reality please!

The air launched version of the Brahmos from the Flanker will most likely not have the rocket booster since air launched anti-ship missiles usually delete their rocket boosters compared to ship launched.

The booster would be redundant because when fired from an aircraft it doesn't need to get enough air through the engine as when compared to being fired from a ship since it needs some acceleration to start the regular engine and with the start speed from the aircraft the normal engine will have enough air to "breathe" so it can start immediately.

This will result in a reduction in the weight of the missile which will help the aircraft.

All those who boast of China's capabilities...please can you answer a simple question of mine-

If China is what you think it is, please can you tell me when will it stop purchasing engines, aircrafts and missiles from other countries? If China is as great as Russia or US, when will it start using only the stuff that it produces herself as opposed to puchased wares?

basically his method of operation is to give out alot of seriously inflated stats for pak or chinese equipment...

check this comment out in anther topic

"Pakistan is U.S.'s ally, so we don't need AWACs."

read between the lines; these guys all make the same mistakes...

there are alot of dubious characters here... like that indian Sam used to come here with other nicks and passed racial comments on indians... then we also look for people who target specific forums like denebola (legspinner) targets the american and the ME forum...

others act Pakistani and try to get either that sectarian crap started or the racial, religous thing going... there are local idiots involved as well...

All those who boast of China's capabilities...please can you answer a simple question of mine-

If China is what you think it is, please can you tell me when will it stop purchasing engines, aircrafts and missiles from other countries? If China is as great as Russia or US, when will it start using only the stuff that it produces herself as opposed to puchased wares?

Kind regards.

They can't answer that Zookman! if they could answer that then I will believe them! Also the problem is that China cannot export us the Su-27/ 30Mkk Flankers! if it could then I would take them over these F-7PG's anyday! bangladesh nigeria or Zimbabwe don't mind F-7PG! PAF is kinda forced to fly it because it is broke and there is nothing else out there! But the problem is Russia wont let these chuppttay export the Flanker!

China real Defence budget is some where $80B. Now this $2B per year is peanuts.

Even if J-11 is exported PAF would not like ly buy it. Its operating costs are

$10M per year per plane. Which PAF cannot afford presently may be in 2010 period

when PAK budget and GDP is bigger. PAF current priority is JF-17 and AWACS.

PAF even didnot bought J-8 with SARH missiles when it is available 10 years ago.

J-8 is a very bulky plane! it is not suited to our teeny tiny airspace! And 10 years ago it was not evn fully developed! vohee baat hae na!

Trying to reinvent the wheel, and coming up with one 25 years too late! The same is with this FC-1, save for the business/ marketability to third world nations aspect!

An aircraft like the J-8II on which work started in the 70's or 80's, and by the time first prototype flew it was already obsolete as a concept! It is purely an interceptor along the lines of a Flagon!! PAF would have never bought it specially after getting a taste of the F-sola!

The acquisition of the Flanker by the PLAAF has garbaged many an ambitious Chinese project!

We know we can't fight India right now! We will lose. If it wasn't for unkal sam setting up bases in Pakistan throughout last year and these Indians camped out on our border, there was a fairly high probablility that they might have struck and steam rolled us! Khuda ka shukar adaa kar teray unkal nay teri sustee bhund ko phir bacha liya!

That is very sad to heear

But how come Indians do not steanrolled Pak before US come?

What is chupptay mean? Is it good word? Lulli use for Chinese the time

J-10, J-10B, J-8II-D, -F, -H, JH-7A, J-7G and FC-1 all came out after Flanker buy in 1991.

FC-1 and JL-9 just flied last year!

My friend I am not putting down China or its serious attempts to attain indigenous weapons capability! but when 15 year olds on this forum try to pucker up their flat asses and start talking stupid ####, then I will not stand rubbish!

Also buddy if the JH-7 or F-8 were so awesome and fantastic don't you tink PAF would have bought them in large numbers by now? I mean wouldn't you think?

The facts dictate otherwise buddy! PAF is a small and broke airforce! They need something like the F-16 that can wear many hats and do the job! The Flanker can do it, but we can't have it....Thats the reality!.....I will even go as far as the JH-7/ FBC-1 flying leopard/ C-803 combination is still a useful buy for the PN, but we are broke man, thas another reason why PAF can't afford much!! :ermm

My friend I am not putting down China or its serious attempts to attain indigenous weapons capability! but when 15 year olds on this forum try to pucker up their flat asses and start talking stupid ####, then I will not stand rubbish!

Also buddy if the JH-7 or F-8 were so awesome and fantastic don't you tink PAF would have bought them in large numbers by now? I mean wouldn't you think?

The facts dictate otherwise buddy! PAF is a small and broke airforce! They need something like the F-16 that can wear many hats and do the job! The Flanker can do it, but we can't have it....Thats the reality!.....I will even go as far as the JH-7/ FBC-1 flying leopard/ C-803 combination is still a useful buy for the PN, but we are broke man, thas another reason why PAF can't afford much!! :ermm

Thats what i am saying PAF is only for Single engine Multirole fighters not

twin engine interceptors or Twin engine bombetrs. So whats your point about

PAF.

http://www.globalsec...d/china/j-8.htmThe twin-engined Jian-8IIM is claimed to be better equipped to survive damage than single-engined F-16A/C and Mirage 2000 series. The high-altitude high-speed performance of the Jian-8IIM is superior to the F-16A/C, F-18, and Mirage 2000; and its radar and electronic equipment are better than those of the F-16A and are similar to those of F-16C, F-18,and Mirage 2000-5. By using the new, powerful WP-13B engines, the Jian-8IIM fighter boasts greatly improved low-altitude maneuverability, which is slightly better than that of the F-18 and Mirage 2000-5, but still inferior to that of the F-16.

Also buddy if the JH-7 or F-8 were so awesome and fantastic don't you tink PAF would have bought them in large numbers by now? I mean wouldn't you think?

J-8 is a high speed interceptor and JH-7 is maritime strike so no use for PAF, I agree. Multirole plane like FC-1 and F-16 is better for smaller air force.

But no one is say J-8 and JH-7 is very fantastic. They are just planes in Chinese air force and PAF is use to West equipment, no doubt. China would want west equipment not Russian if they have chance too.

Remember China must buy Su-27 because US and West block buy from them. China also need many planes fast. That is why it is has J-10, J-11, J-8II-D,-G,-H , J-7G, JH-7A and FC-1/JF-17 all at same time.

If Flanker is all they need, they would drop all the projects and just make J-11.

J-10, FC-1 and JH-7 are all western concept (from F-16, Lavi and Tornado/Jaguar ), not Russian.

That is why PAF is signed for 150 FC-1s. Maybe later J-10 too, that is what some reports say.

J-8 is a high speed interceptor and JH-7 is maritime strike so no use for PAF, I agree. Multirole plane like FC-1 and F-16 is better for smaller air force.

But no one is say J-8 and JH-7 is very fantastic. They are just planes in Chinese air force and PAF is use to West equipment, no doubt. China would want west equipment not Russian if they have chance too.

Remember China must buy Su-27 because US and West block buy from them. China also need many planes fast. That is why it is has J-10, J-11, J-8II-D,-G,-H , J-7G, JH-7A and FC-1/JF-17 all at same time.

If Flanker is all they need, they would drop all the projects and just make J-11.

J-10, FC-1 and JH-7 are all western concept (from F-16, Lavi and Tornado/Jaguar ), not Russian.

That is why PAF is signed for 150 FC-1s. Maybe later J-10 too, that is what some reports say.

200 JF-17 not 150.Flight International 23 Mar 2004

Chengdu Aircraft has completed around 20 sorties of its first FC-1/JF-17 prototype since the type made its maiden flight last August. The company will roll out a second flying prototype at the end of this month, while the programme's third flight-test airframe and a fatigue-test article are in assembly. A fifth, static-test article is already in use.

Russia's Klimov RD-93 has been picked to power the fighter, and the prototype aircraft are equipped with Chinese avionics. A more advanced avionics suite will be installed after the project's performance evaluation phase concludes late this year and before the systems evaluation phase begins.

Pakistan, expected to acquire about 200 JF-17s, will decide on an avionics package next year. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex-assembled Fiar Grifo S7 and Elta EL/M-2032 fire-control radars are among the systems under consideration to equip its aircraft.

Thats what i am saying PAF is only for Single engine Multirole fighters not

twin engine interceptors or Twin engine bombetrs. So whats your point about

PAF.

http://www.globalsec...d/china/j-8.htmThe twin-engined Jian-8IIM is claimed to be better equipped to survive damage than single-engined F-16A/C and Mirage 2000 series. The high-altitude high-speed performance of the Jian-8IIM is superior to the F-16A/C, F-18, and Mirage 2000; and its radar and electronic equipment are better than those of the F-16A and are similar to those of F-16C, F-18,and Mirage 2000-5. By using the new, powerful WP-13B engines, the Jian-8IIM fighter boasts greatly improved low-altitude maneuverability, which is slightly better than that of the F-18 and Mirage 2000-5, but still inferior to that of the F-16.

Abaay yaar comeon! The J-8II 'finback' is in the class o an Su-15 Flagon at best! I would imagine it to be even heavier and more sluggish! its manouevrability is none too much to speak about! It got a half ass face saving lift job the last time when it was equipped with the Zhuk and R-27 combo!

Abaay yaar comeon! The J-8II 'finback' is in the class o an Su-15 Flagon at best! I would imagine it to be even heavier and more sluggish! its manouevrability is none too much to speak about! It got a half ass face saving lift job the last time when it was equipped with the Zhuk and R-27 combo!