If Human Torch keeps his distance, he can just keep spamming fire until she is dead. But if Diana can close the distance, she'd kill him pretty easily.

KingD19

How would she handle Johnny's Supernova?

TheVaultDweller

I don't think he'd use it in a random fight. Reed told him that he could destroy all life on Earth with it if he wasn't careful, and he only used it after that when they had Sue to contain it in a forcefield.

Obviously, if he does use it, she'd die horribly. But he'd risk wiping out everything else, including himself.

KingD19

Well I'm pretty sure Johnny is immune to his own Supernova.

But is the world taken into account during this fight? Aren't most fights in a featureless void unless otherwise stated?

FrothByte

Was it ever established if WW can fly? If she can't then Torch can just keep his distance and roast her alive. She'll block a bit with her bracers but eventually get cooked. Of course if she gets in close he's done for.

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by KingD19
Well I'm pretty sure Johnny is immune to his own Supernova.

But is the world taken into account during this fight? Aren't most fights in a featureless void unless otherwise stated?

IIRC, heat wasn't the issue. Reed said he'd ignite the planet's atmosphere, which is something even Johnny still needs to survive (I think. The 2nd movie made kind of a cluster**** of all that. His flames died and he started passing out because of lack of oxygen during his first encounter with the Surfer, but helps the Surfer fly into space and into Galactus' swirly cloudmouth at the end of the film. So, go figure that one out).

Though if we are assuming that those conditions aren't valid in this match, and that HT is allowed to go all out, then yeah, Nova flame for the win.

Darth Thor

Dunno. I mean WW deflected Doomsdays HV without an issue. So not sure why Torch will give her more trouble.

As for the reach disadvantage, surely she can just throw stuff at Torch with her super strength ad speed.

TheVaultDweller

DD fired focused beams that she could block with a shield or her bracers. Human Torch can fire blasts that spread out over a much larger area than those things can cover, such as when he ignited an entire garbage water rig with a quick blast during the missile chase scene from the first film. And yeah, she is going to throw stuff at a guy who can outrace missiles and keep up with the Silver Surfer?

TheVaultDweller

On a random note, I assume composite means he gets the 2015 feats as well. And while that movie sucked overall, that HT completely wrecked a drone simply by flying into it while in flame on mode (and also went through solid stone pillars at the end of the film IIRC). So, anything that gets thrown at him would probably melt or something in anyways, even if it happened to be on target.

steverules_2

HT melts her clothes off, we all win

Darth Thor

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And yeah, she is going to throw stuff at a guy who can outrace missiles and keep up with the Silver Surfer?

Well shes fast enough to deflect bullets, and she can throw objects much larger than missiles.

Plus shock waves.

Blindside12

Im also not buying into this whole WW isnt bullet proof thing. Sure she was scratched one time before realizing her full power, since then she has tanked huge explosions, cratered into the ground, hard rock and concrete by doomsday, directly hit by Superman without blocking with a weapon. Any one of these provides more damage then a bullet. She's completely unaffected by gas that can melt gas masks with metal parts, she is completely unaffected by fire.

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well shes fast enough to deflect bullets, and she can throw objects much larger than missiles.

Plus shock waves.

What feats does she have of hitting a guy who can fly at speeds of over Mach 14.5 with thrown objects? Because that's what was calculated as the average speed he and the Surfer were hitting during their chase scene in the 2nd film. And it was shown that they can go much faster, as after they covered the distance used to do that calc (a trip from New York to New Jersey to Washington DC in about 75 seconds), they are shown to accelerate even faster.

TheVaultDweller

Also, considering the OP did not specify a location, what exactly is Diana going to be throwing? Her sword? Her shield? Her lasso? Her boots? Not really that much bigger than a missile, and they also aren't heat-seeking, like the missile was.

Darth Thor

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
What feats does she have of hitting a guy who can fly at speeds of over Mach 14.5 with thrown objects? Because that's what was calculated as the average speed he and the Surfer were hitting during their chase scene in the 2nd film. And it was shown that they can go much faster, as after they covered the distance used to do that calc (a trip from New York to New Jersey to Washington DC in about 75 seconds), they are shown to accelerate even faster.

What combat dodging fears has he shown, especially while simultaneously shooting fire at his opponent?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, considering the OP did not specify a location, what exactly is Diana going to be throwing? Her sword? Her shield? Her lasso? Her boots? Not really that much bigger than a missile, and they also aren't heat-seeking, like the missile was.

A chunk of the ground will do.

This is the gal who chucks around tanks with ease.

I also already mentioned shock waves which you seemed to have ignored.

What combat dodging fears has he shown, especially while simultaneously shooting fire at his opponent?

A chunk of the ground will do.

This is the gal who chucks around tanks with ease.

I also already mentioned shock waves which you seemed to have ignored.

No, it's not just travel speed. Because he needed to react to all the obstacles, such as cars, tunnels etc. while moving at hypersonic speeds. And you were the one who made the initial claim, so you first need to post some feats of her chucking chunks of ground at flying opponents.

And, again, this is the composite version according to the OP. So, not sure how a chunk of ground is going to do much when 2015 HT could withstand direct collisions with drones and stone columns without injury. He also withstood some of that Doom's tk blasts, who showcased multi-ton level power towards the end of the film. And 2005/2007 HT is durable enough to take a punch from the Thing that was hard enough to send him flying dozens of feet, and crash land from the upper atmosphere into the desert, without being hurt.

So, even if WW could accurately hit him with a thrown object (which you have yet to prove she can), there is no guarantee it will have the effect you are hoping for.

The shockwave might work, but that's also assuming she hits him with it before he can roast her.

TheVaultDweller

Oh, and during the HT missile chase, he actually dodges it at one point when it's coming up at him from behind.

h1a8

She blocked DD hv pretty easily. Her bracelets can absorb energy. She can cross her bracelets. She can lasso Johnny (he will be close enough in character). She can eventually throw something at him if he stays away.

h1a8

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, it's not just travel speed. Because he needed to react to all the obstacles, such as cars, tunnels etc. while moving at hypersonic speeds. And you were the one who made the initial claim, so you first need to post some feats of her chucking chunks of ground at flying opponents.

And, again, this is the composite version according to the OP. So, not sure how a chunk of ground is going to do much when 2015 HT could withstand direct collisions with drones and stone columns without injury. He also withstood some of that Doom's tk blasts, who showcased multi-ton level power towards the end of the film. And 2005/2007 HT is durable enough to take a punch from the Thing that was hard enough to send him flying dozens of feet, and crash land from the upper atmosphere into the desert, without being hurt.

So, even if WW could accurately hit him with a thrown object (which you have yet to prove she can), there is no guarantee it will have the effect you are hoping for.

The shockwave might work, but that's also assuming she hits him with it before he can roast her.

I never seen him move at super sonic speed. 100mph tops. And also great distance gives more time to react. So speed alone is irrelevant. You must have both speed and distance to calculate reaction time. Everything he dodged was shown to take more than a half of second to react.

Johnny is not bullet proof. A thrown object going faster than a bullet would go right through him easily.

h1a8

Missle was super slow

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by h1a8
I never seen him move at super sonic speed. 100mph tops.

I stopped reading right there, because that is some of the most ridiculous lowballing I have seen you pull on this board, and that is saying something.

h1a8

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I stopped reading right there, because that is some of the most ridiculous lowballing I have seen you pull on this board, and that is saying something. I recently watched the entire flight scenes before posting. He did not even fly above 100mph. Several obstacles took several seconds to reach. I could post clips of a nearby obstacle and several seconds pass before Johnny maneuvers around it. I also timed his distance of flight in relation to buildings and other things. Ok &lt;200 mph

KingD19

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I stopped reading right there, because that is some of the most ridiculous lowballing I have seen you pull on this board, and that is saying something.

Well he did say because Pai Mei looks cool and has some feats against nobody, and plucked Elle's eye out, he could take out Sunny in 30 seconds or less.

He's an idiotic troll.

Silent Master

Then your retarded, try looking at what city they started in and where they ended up

h1a8

Silent Master

You said that you watched the entire flight scene and never saw him fly over 100mph, are you willing to admit that you were wrong?

h1a8

Silent Master

By around how much did he exceed 100mph?

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
By around how much did he exceed 100mph? I can only give a close least upper bound. Less than or equal to 200mph (293ft/s) at his fastest.
But most showings are slower than 100 mph.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by steverules_2
HT melts her clothes off, we all win

Silent Master

Originally posted by h1a8
I can only give a close least upper bound. Less than or equal to 200mph (293ft/s) at his fastest.
But most showings are slower than 100 mph.

IOW, you think that you can get from Manhattan to Washington DC within a few seconds without going above 200mph.

Ladies and gentlemen, the above is from someone(h1) that claims to be intelligent.

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, you think that you can get from Manhattan to Washington DC within a few seconds without going above 200mph.

Ladies and gentlemen, the above is from someone(h1) that claims to be intelligent. Prove that he went from Manhattan to Washington in a few seconds. Post the clip.

Silent Master

The Baxter building is in Manhattan and the Washington Monument is in DC.

ynExxBCZSAo

Human Torch starts flying at around the 27 second mark and passes the monument at around the 1:53 mark. the distance from Manhattan to the Washington monument is around 230 miles.

Now explain to me how you came to the 200mph number.

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
The Baxter building is in Manhattan and the Washington Monument is in DC.

ynExxBCZSAo

Human Torch starts flying at around the 27 second mark and passes the monument at around the 1:53 mark. the distance from Manhattan to the Washington monument is around 230 miles.

Now explain to me how you came to the 200mph number.

The driving distance is 230miles.the straight line distance is about 205miles. But that is irrelevant.

You can't use real time (our time) here. All of the scenes are not necessarily connected (without gaps) in time. Meaning, time has elapsed between some adjacent scenes. This is proven by ALL of the shown onscreen speed being far less than the speed of sound. Thus they had to travel some distance offscreen. In other words, Each scene shown, they were under the speed of sound. You even see them take seconds to reach and past things that weren't very far from them (where I get the less than 200mph).

Even so, the time it took in each scene to travel to various distances (producing a certain speed) would simply contradict the average speed of the entire trip.

Silent Master

Prove that it took longer than the movie showed.

They exited the Holland tunnel at around the 1:41 mark and passed the monument at 1:53. that is 12 seconds.

Nibedicus

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that it took longer than the movie showed.

They exited the Holland tunnel at around the 1:41 mark and passed the monument at 1:53. that is 12 seconds. So you agree that they had to travel offscreen too? Otherwise we get a contradiction in average speed shown.

Silent Master

Originally posted by h1a8
So you agree that they had to travel offscreen too? Otherwise we get a contradiction in average speed shown.

Look up, Nib easily calculated a top speed of 11,000mph using what we see onscreen.

How is it a math teacher couldn't figure that out?

Silent Master

KingD19

Even 2015 Torch had a takeoff speed of 2000 meters in 6 seconds. That's 894mph from taking off.

Silent Master

Hasn't H1 claimed to be a math teacher?

Nibedicus

Originally posted by Silent Master
Your 11,000mph is on the low end. I kept getting around 15 miles when marking the map and so came up with about 15,500mph

Yeah, it was a very low end estimate.

TheVaultDweller

^^ Yup, but it is also consistent with an average travel speed of around Mach 14.5, as the speed won't be totally consistent depending on their surroundings they are moving through. You also have other visual cues, like from 1:45 , where you can see their speed relative to the landmass below them (without even needing to check specific distance, though you can, as you have already proved). To claim that that's 100mph tops is just cringe-worthy.

But of course H1 will apply the complete and utter opposite standard he applies to guys like Miyagi, the Watchmen, Nolanverse characters etc. and used a massively low-balled eye-estimation based on his view of HT's visual speed to judge him.

TheVaultDweller

Originally posted by Silent Master
Look up, Nib easily calculated a top speed of 11,000mph using what we see onscreen.

How is it a math teacher couldn't figure that out?

I highly doubt he even made any effort to try and do so. Just decided to do his usual thing of massively lowballing the side he is against and expecting no one to question him.

h1a8

Surtur

When it comes to the supernova I don't think he can do it instantly.

h1a8

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I highly doubt he even made any effort to try and do so. Just decided to do his usual thing of massively lowballing the side he is against and expecting no one to question him. If you see 99% of the scenes then you would see speeds far under the speed of sound.

But good way to derail the argument. Remember it was about his reactions? He never dodged anything moving at those speeds in that scene.

The scenes were he dodged then he had a second or more to react.

Silent Master

Originally posted by h1a8
I believe they exceeded the speed of sound in that particular scene. But their images were large in comparison to the land shown. So the perspective shows that they covered less distance and hence were traveling much slower. But I stand corrected.

Ok, how fast do you think they were going in that scene?

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
Ok, how fast do you think they were going in that scene?
I have no idea. But definitely faster than sound.

But the showing has no bearing on his reactions?

Silent Master

Why don't you have an idea, you can clearly see how far they travelled on the map.

Nibedicus

Silent Master

Nibedicus

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since he's saying that our numbers are wrong, I want him to give an exact number. That way we can fact check it.

It's hilarious, really. And, surprise, surprise, (okay, not surprising at all) massively hypocritical. He dismisses numbers drawn from available screen info, where people even show how they reach their answer. Yet he is constantly pulling numbers out of his ass in various threads, and he never provides any proper workings or methods as to how he reaches any of them. He just throws them out and expects people to accept them, and when they don't, he claims his numbers are "common sense" and that they are idiots for disagreeing. And then demand that they prove a negative to his unproven claim. I have seen this happen too many times to count at this point.

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why don't you have an idea, you can clearly see how far they travelled on the map.

No we don't. Their sprites were large in comparison to the land. That means they traveled less distance than you think. So It could be calculated to near accuracy yes. But it is not pertinent to do so.

h1a8

I agreed that it was faster than sound.
But not pertinent to the discussion.

That should be the end of it. Further discussion about that is derailing the thread. As it stands WW wins.

Nibedicus

Originally posted by h1a8
No we don't. Their sprites were large in comparison to the land. That means they traveled less distance than you think.

So if a character is shown from a perspective to be the size of a city block then you are telling me we can use their visual location in relation to the land as accurate?

My fingertip moves across the sun from my perspective. Does that mean my fingertip actually moved the radius of the sun?
No because from my perspective, my fingertip was larger than normal in comparison to the sun.

SS and HT sprites were large in comparison to the land they traversed. If the unit width of SS sprite is 3ft. Then how many units did SS travel in that scene? That's how you would accurately calculate it.

Nibedicus

h1a8

Lol I did not even attempt to quantify it. I just said that they were moving at less speed than what you think (Silent).

I already said they still were moving faster than sound but that it is irrelevant to the thread.

Silent Master

You tried to quantify it three times, so actually give us a number.

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
You tried to quantify it three times, so actually give us a number. It refers to the scene in question. I was referring to other scenes. I gave upper limits to those other scenes. That's not quantifying

Originally posted by h1a8
It refers to the scene in question. I was referring to other scenes. I gave upper limits to those other scenes. That's not quantifying

Silent Master

Thank you for admitting HT was traveling between 11,000 and 15,500mph during that section of the flight scene which you claimed to have watched in it's entirety.

Nibedicus

h1a8

Your calculation depends on the characters being normal size in comparison to the land from the perspective we saw. The characters were larger than normal in comparison to the land. That alone disproves your calculation.

h1a8

Originally posted by Silent Master
Thank you for admitting HT was traveling between 11,000 and 15,500mph during that section of the flight scene which you claimed to have watched in it's entirety. I can say "thank you for admitting that you are mostly wrong." But that doesn't make it true.

You can say untrue things all you want. Has no bearing on the truth.

Silent Master

Originally posted by h1a8
I can say "thank you for admitting that you are mostly wrong." But that doesn't make it true.

You can say untrue things all you want. Has no bearing on the truth.

Difference is we've shown our work in regards to coming up with those numbers and you've been completely unable to refute our conclusions.

Therefore the 11000 to 15500 number stands.

h1a8

Nibedicus

Originally posted by h1a8
Your calculation depends on the characters being normal size in comparison to the land from the perspective we saw. The characters were larger than normal in comparison to the land. That alone disproves your calculation.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Citation needed on physical laws that prove relevance of above claims?

You know how science works right?

well he is allegedly a science teacher lmao

Silent Master

Didn't he also claim to be a math teacher?

One Big Mob

He also claimed to be able to punch 2-3 times faster than the fastest punch ever recorded. He's full on retarded. Not internet retarded either. I mean someone with downs syndrome who learned how to type well got on a computer and found this site. And his owners let him stay on it so he doesn't direct his tard rages towards them.
I would not be surprised if he was a fully functioning downer. I don't know why you guys have been arguing with him for years, but I think it hilarious that he found this forum(movie vs). Works out better since his captors only have to put on a movie for him so at least he can pretend he knows as much as everyone else. But that little tard itch somewhere in his brain just locks away that full comprehension to him. No matter how many times he watches the movie while sucking on a full stick of butter, there is always a little bit shut out forever. No matter what, he will never fully understand every part in a movie, but by golly do they put a big old goofy tard smile on his face.

h1a8

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Citation needed on physical laws that prove relevance of above claims?

You know how science works right?

Trolling huh I see. Do you actually disagree with the argument? Or you just arguing just to be arguing?

Nibedicus

h1a8

You didn't answer my question.
If you legitimately disagree with the laws of perspective then say so.

I don't actually think you are dumb to believe a helicopter seen flying across the moon in the sky means that the helicopter actually traveled the radius of the moon.

So basically you are trolling at this point.

Nibedicus

carthage

Originally posted by One Big Mob
He also claimed to be able to punch 2-3 times faster than the fastest punch ever recorded. He's full on retarded. Not internet retarded either. I mean someone with downs syndrome who learned how to type well got on a computer and found this site. And his owners let him stay on it so he doesn't direct his tard rages towards them.
I would not be surprised if he was a fully functioning downer. I don't know why you guys have been arguing with him for years, but I think it hilarious that he found this forum(movie vs). Works out better since his captors only have to put on a movie for him so at least he can pretend he knows as much as everyone else. But that little tard itch somewhere in his brain just locks away that full comprehension to him. No matter how many times he watches the movie while sucking on a full stick of butter, there is always a little bit shut out forever. No matter what, he will never fully understand every part in a movie, but by golly do they put a big old goofy tard smile on his face.

&#128514;

h1a8

Nibedicus

Silent Master

When h1 says things like "so basically" what he actually means is, "I'm about to ignore your points and just make things up".

TheVaultDweller

H1's complete and utter lack of self-awareness, calling someone else a troll while dodging the burden of proof and strawmanning people, never ceases to amaze me.

h1a8

h1a8

Nibedicus

h1a8

Nibedicus

double post

Nibedicus

TheVaultDweller

LMAO I totally called it.

h1a8

Nibedicus

Silent Master

You do know that he's trying to derail the thread by getting people to focus on the fact that he's not answering a question, rather than what the question he's dodging actually is, right?

Edit: Just for the fun of it.

@h1, The moon is 238,900 miles away from the Earth, SS and HT weren't flying more than a few hundred feet in the air, does your Intellectual dishonesty have no limit?