Playing Games: Q&A with David Kushner author of ‘Jacked: The Outlaw Story of Grand Theft Auto’

Writer’s note: Here’s the full Q&A with author David Kushner published in today’s 96 Hours.

“Grand Theft Auto” is one of a handful of video game franchises that made a significant cultural impart impact on both die-hard gamers and mainstream consumers; the latest game in the series, “Grand Theft Auto V,” is in development. David Kushner’s book “Jacked: The Outlaw Story of Grand Theft Auto,” recounts the rise of “GTA” developer Rockstar Games and the franchise’s effect on popular culture.

We asked Kushner about his book, in which he writes not only about the beginnings of Rockstar but also about attorney Jack Thompson’s crusade against violent video games (and “GTA” in particular) and the legal mess surrounding an interactive sex scene, called “Hot Coffee,” hidden in “GTA: San Andreas.”

Q: What inspired you to write about Rockstar and, in particular, “GTA”?
A: I covered the birth of modern gaming in my first book, “Masters of Doom,” which more or less spans the 1990s. To me, the defining game of (the 2000s) the next decade is “Grand Theft Auto.” I don’t think you can really understand this massive culture and industry without understanding the story of “GTA.”. And, more than anything, it’s the story of innovation that compelled me. Although I expected gamers to read the book, I wrote it so that people who don’t know or care about videogames can understand this world a bit better.

Q: What video game franchise(s) do you see as our current decade? Can our current decade be as controversial as the “Doom” and “GTA” eras?

A: As I describe in the book, I do think we’re edging past the age of controversy in video games. This is a sign that the gamer generation is growing up and taking over. As for what game might epitomize this decade now, it’s hard to see — we’re still just getting started. Obviously social and mobile games like Angry Birds and Draw Something are reaching huge numbers of players, and redefining what a game experience can be. But who knows, maybe we will be playing Google glasses games that will blow all of them away, creating an entirely new type of gameplay.

Q: What kind of access did you get with Rockstar?

A: The book is the culmination of over a decade of extensive reporting on video games, Rockstar, and GTA for Rolling Stone, Wired, and other publications. Rockstar declined to participate in the book, but I drew from my earlier interviews with the founders, as well as many new interviews with former Rockstar team members and the team who invented the game in Scotland. To me the main character of the book is the game itself, so I spoke with everyone I could (developers, hackers, politicians, critics, etc) and read everything I could (court documents, etc) to recreate the story of GTA.

Q: Any surprises unearthed during your research on the “GTA” franchise that gamers wouldn’t have known about Rockstar and GTA?

A: Sure, there were plenty of revelations I uncovered in writing the book. I always love origin stories – especially in comic books – and the origin story of GTA was fascinating. It was really interesting to talk with the creators, Sam and Dan Houser and members of the original development team about how and why the game became what it is today, and the challenges of making that a reality. It was also incredibly interesting to hear the tick-tock of how the early controversy was manufactured by a high-profile publicist in the UK. Ultimately controversy alone doesn’t sell a product though; GTA sold because it was really fun to play.

Q: I recall the publicity surrounding GTA2 which drew my attention. For DMA/Rockstar, would the old saying: any bad publicity or controversy was good publicity worked?

A: Sure any publicity helps, but controversy alone doesn’t sell a product. GTA became successful on its own merits. At the end of the day, players thought it was a great game.
Q: Have you heard from anyone at Rockstar after the book was published? Do you know how the Housers and Thompson received your book?

A: I haven’t heard from them.
Q: Is the culture war with video games over?

A: For the most part the war against video games is over. Culture wars always seem to break out over new mediums and youth culture: comic books, heavy metal and so on. Last decade, video games had their turn – and my book goes into great detail about the conflict between what I call the “players” and the “haters.” It was fascinating to see how politicians and the media exploited the story of violent video games, and how the game industry played the meta-game against this. Now that gamers have grown up, though, I do think those days are essentially behind us, and that GTA V will be all about the game, not the controversy.
Q: Are there still “haters” of the video games industry even though it’s now mainstream? Where were the voices of the average parent with kids who play video games? Through your research, Did your research uncover what parents were saying about video games? Did Thompson represent their voice?

A: Well I tried to write about Jack Thompson as a real, complex human being. Like him or hate him, he struck a chord with a lot of parents, and was articulating concerns that many people shared. To me this was evocative of the generation gap between the “players and the haters,” as I call them in the book. Not every parent shares those concerns, but some do. For example, there’s a part of the book where I go into depth about a murder that was blamed on GTA. Two young stepbrothers in Tennessee stole shotguns from their parents’ house, and went shooting at cars on a highway – killing one person, and crippling another. People, including parents and politicians, were looking for something to blame, and some of them chose GTA.
Q: I imagine a lot of “players” wouldn’t like your humanizing treatment of Thompson, especially when both sides were extremely polarized. The video game industry reformed its ratings system as a result of Thompson’s efforts. Was the controversy a win-win for both sides? Did anyone really lose?

A: A certain amount of controversy is par for the course for any new medium. Comic books and rock music, for example, went through similar battles, and those days are long over. We started the last decade with many people still infantilizing video games, thinking they were for kids. But now most people understand that gamers are everywhere, and all ages — from teens to college students to doctors and lawyers, moms and grandmas, and you name it. Games have finally gone mainstream, and that’s the story, in part, that I wanted to tell.
Q: Is Hot Coffee still a hot topic within the industry today?

A: Hot Coffee, perhaps more than anything, epitomized the culture war over video games, and it certainly left a legacy. While it was a difficult period for the industry, I do think that ultimately it was a good thing for the medium. It forced people to realize that video games are not just for kids.