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Re: The Donald Trump thread

You can't hide behind this every time, mate, it's not a get out of jail free card to use when the conversation is going badly. This is no secondary source, it's Trump's own words.

Have I called Trump a Nazi? No.

The facts are that when a vehicle was driven into innocent people in another country (London) Trump was on the attack in no time. When it happened in his own country, but this time by white supremacists, his response was very muted.

In the words of one senator (a democrat if you want to dismiss it) "it's not too much to ask to have a president who explicitly condemns nazis"

I see the new FBI director and the DOJ have started a federal enquiry into the events in Charlottesville, so hopefully all the stories will match up and they will get to the bottom of what happened.

All I know is that a permit was issued for the initial protest, and then the Antifa mob showed up without permission, with most of them being bussed in from out of town.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

You can't hide behind this every time, mate, it's not a get out of jail free card to use when the conversation is going badly. This is no secondary source, it's Trump's own words.

Have I called Trump a Nazi? No.

The facts are that when a vehicle was driven into innocent people in another country (London) Trump was on the attack in no time. When it happened in his own country, but this time by white supremacists, his response was very muted.

In the words of one senator (a democrat if you want to dismiss it) "it's not too much to ask to have a president who explicitly condemns nazis"

Trump appeared as an apologist when in all other occasions he has been happy to speak in the strongest possible terms - true. However, the violent outbreak seems to have not been just one group attacking the other (until the car attack) and it's not wrong to condemn violence on both sides, even if one side's viewpoint is very hard to listen to in 2017. Obama would not have spoke out against just the alt-right which is what I feel some in the media wanted Trump to do.

Trump, however, is a moron who seems to be pushing us all into a horrific war with his loose and aggressive twitter response.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by surge

Trump appeared as an apologist when in all other occasions he has been happy to speak in the strongest possible terms - true. However, the violent outbreak seems to have not been just one group attacking the other (until the car attack) and it's not wrong to condemn violence on both sides, even if one side's viewpoint is very hard to listen to in 2017. Obama would not have spoke out against just the alt-right which is what I feel some in the media wanted Trump to do.

Trump, however, is a moron who seems to be pushing us all into a horrific war with his loose and aggressive twitter response.

Yes, it's not as clearcut as lardy is making it out to be, he's just reiterating the MSM narrative without adding anything new. I'll be waiting for a proper investigation to take place before I pass any comment on what happened.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by surge

Trump appeared as an apologist when in all other occasions he has been happy to speak in the strongest possible terms - true. However, the violent outbreak seems to have not been just one group attacking the other (until the car attack) and it's not wrong to condemn violence on both sides, even if one side's viewpoint is very hard to listen to in 2017. Obama would not have spoke out against just the alt-right which is what I feel some in the media wanted Trump to do.

Trump, however, is a moron who seems to be pushing us all into a horrific war with his loose and aggressive twitter response.

I haven't said that Trump was wrong to say all violence, no matter from who, was wrong. You're coming from the same place as me from what I can tell - I also doubt that Obama would only have spoken against the 'alt-right', but I'm sure he (and every president from at least FDR onwards) would have taken a stronger line than Trump. When you consider that he has taken people with a white supremacist history close into his team, he's put himself in a very sticky situation when it comes to events like this. Actions and words are stacked against him.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by lardy

I haven't said that Trump was wrong to say all violence, no matter from who, was wrong. You're coming from the same place as me from what I can tell - I also doubt that Obama would only have spoken against the 'alt-right', but I'm sure he (and every president from at least FDR onwards) would have taken a stronger line than Trump. When you consider that he has taken people with a white supremacist history close into his team, he's put himself in a very sticky situation when it comes to events like this. Actions and words are stacked against him.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

For more than a century the USA has been a beacon of democracy. Now its head has harsher words for women who may be menstruating or may have had plastic surgery than when a fanatic drives into a group of americans who hold different beliefs to him. Sad times!

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

For more than a century the USA has been a beacon of democracy. Now its head has harsher words for women who may be menstruating or may have had plastic surgery than when a fanatic drives into a group of americans who hold different beliefs to him. Sad times!

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

For more than a century the USA has been a beacon of democracy. Now its head has harsher words for women who may be menstruating or may have had plastic surgery than when a fanatic drives into a group of americans who hold different beliefs to him. Sad times!

In the past century, "beacon of democracy" the USA has (excluding WW2) invaded 9 countries, effected regime change in 30 sovereign states and bombed around 30 as well. They have removed governments that have been brought to power by popular revolutions (Korea) and democratic elections (Iran). It is a two-party state where a son was president a mere eight years after his father left office. The USA jails more people and spends more on its military than any other country. The US military and sanctions have been responsible for killing tens of millions of people in the past century (even excluding WW2).

All I see in these crises is Trump - who I always detested until he took on Crooked Hillary - posturing. He may well be crazy or senile but he hasn't DONE anything warlike yet - apart from bombing some hangars in Syria.

As for Antifa I was a member of the Anti-Nazi League and also Globalise Resistance. I was at Oxford Circus being kettled in May 2001 and I've travelled abroad to G7 summits to protest. I did all that sort of stuff, hundreds of protests for 20 years and saw the agents provocateurs take control so many times that I gave up and joined Plaid Cymru. Antifa are now badge carrying "progressives" and instead of opposing war or kleptocracy or the police state they're now protesting people who don't address cross dressers by the correct pronoun. God help us all.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Anyway, what is this page all about? It seems to be the Antifa crowd going around photographing people who attend legal rallies, and then exposing their identies on the internet just because they have different views.

So what's next? Photographing people who voted for Brexit and trying to get them fired? Maybe Conservative voters too? Swansea City supporters? People with beards? It's a very slippery slope that you promoting here, encouraging the suppression of ideas and freedom of speach.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Anyway, what is this page all about? It seems to be the Antifa crowd going around photographing people who attend legal protests, and then exposing their identies on the internet just because they have different views. So what's next? Photographing people who voted for Brexit and trying to get them fired? Maybe Conservative voters too? Swansea City supporters? People with beards? It's a very slippery slope that you promoting here, encouraging the suppression of ideas and freedom of speach.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Amazing how the prick forgets to tweet on days like this and when that other idiot drove into a crowd in London.
But has had time to voice his (stupid and unwanted) opinion about Sadiq Khan.

This. While I don't want to see the alt-right event organiser be attacked as he tries to condemn the violence, Donald trump has tied himself up in knots by allowing himself to appear as an apologist for neo-nazis by not being vocal enough when he has always previously been happy to be so.

From what I can see (limited viewing) Trump's daughter seems to have a much better idea of the world than the president and vice president Sean spice seems to have not much more at all than the president but in a more professional package. Can, just this once, can we forget the whole democracy thing and go monarchy rules?

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Anyway, what is this page all about? It seems to be the Antifa crowd going around photographing people who attend legal rallies, and then exposing their identies on the internet just because they have different views.

So what's next? Photographing people who voted for Brexit and trying to get them fired? Maybe Conservative voters too? Swansea City supporters? People with beards? It's a very slippery slope that you promoting here, encouraging the suppression of ideas and freedom of speach.

Does it make you feel good to equate people with beards with white supremacists?

Here's part of what the voiceover says in that account. We can all draw our own conclusions for its impartiality, and the impartiality of the gentleman who shared it with us.

"You can see that he is driving recklessly and driving too quickly for such a crowded street. But he's not driving so quickly that people can't get out of the way. Most of the crowd has no problem getting out of the way because they're already on the sides of the street. The media is pushing the idea that this was an intentional terror attack, that this was a right wing terrorist ploughing his car into a crowd of protestors who disagreed with him. But notice here how somebody hits his car with a baseball bat before he actually hits anyone. Sure he's driving recklessly, but it doesn't seem that he has the intent to actually kill people."

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by lardy

If you post one-sided terrorist apologist bullshit at least have the balls to stand by it.

As a matter of interest what would you do if you found yourself in the middle of a large crowd who you knew to be violent, and they struck your car with a weopon? I'm not sure if I would remain calm or panic, so in my opinion I think it's wise to wait for the matter to be properly investigated. He is also being charged with leaving the scene of an accident, but some might say he was avoiding getting killed by that mob. I really have no idea how this could play out in court. If he is guilty then he will get the punishment that is due to him.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

As a matter of interest what would you do if you found yourself in the middle of a large crowd who you knew to be violent, and they struck your car with a weopon? I'm not sure if I remain calm or panic, so in my opinion I think it's wise to wait for the matter to be investigated properly. He is also being charged with leaving the scene of an accident, but some might say he was avoiding getting killed by that mob. I really have no idea how thisCould play out in court.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by lardy

Stop defending a fatal terrorist attack.

Those Westminster guy's were just out for a drive, then people got in the way, they weren't going quick enough to actually kill them so they obviously decided wanted to be killed. Then what do you expect them to do when the policeman told them to stop, they were scared so they had to stab him.

Fyi we know they were advertising for actors in Birmingham that week so I think we should wait to see what Alan Sugar finds out during his investigation. He will present the findings in full (140 characters) on twitter.

Re: The Donald Trump thread

I'm not defending anything, I'm just asking what you would do if you drove into an area full of known violent people and they attacked your car.

Why were they attacking his car?

The video you posted shows that he had already slammed into cars and people, then he went in for a second go and that's when the violent people attacked his car.

So what you're actually asking me is what would I do if I deliberately drove into an area full of known violent people, sending them scattering across my bonnet, having already deliberately attempted to mow some of them down and they attacked my car; I find it difficult to imagine myself in that situation, I'm afraid. What would you do?

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Those Westminster guy's were just out for a drive, then people got in the way, they weren't going quick enough to actually kill them so they obviously decided wanted to be killed. Then what do you expect them to do when the policeman told them to stop, they were scared so they had to stab him.

Fyi we know they were advertising for actors in Birmingham that week so I think we should wait to see what Alan Sugar finds out during his investigation. He will present the findings in full (140 characters) on twitter.

Strange how that one wasn't being defended on CCMB, then again perhaps not many people shared the same ideology as those terrorists.