Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems.

Well, it doesn't happen often, but of course I agree with you completely.

More often than not, not just in the airline industry but with most things in life, the government is the cause of our problems, not the solution, but once people get hit by the full effects of the government's ineptitude and bureaucracy, the government (i.e., politicians, bureaucrats, and talking heads) immediately try and shift the blame to the easiest possible target -- business (read: airlines, oil companies, fast food restaurants, etc.) -- to divert attention from them. Sadly, also more often than not, it usually works.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems

100% Agreed

The failures within the US civil aviation continue to scream out loud..

This happened to me once at JFK arriving from MEX on the 10:45 p.m. AM flight. Computers were down for close to two hours. Definitely, not a pleasant situation. Immigration officers were quite upset as well as their shift ended at midnight and they had to stay until system was back up and running and all passengers were processed.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane.

I think the problem, though, is that these are inbound international flights, meaning that they can't be 'released' on to US soil until CBP has processed them -- so the gate that they would 'return to' is either their country of origin or another airport with immigration services (such as ONT or LAS, where aircraft in the air were being diverted) and not as simple as just pulling a jetway up to the plane.

Lincoln

CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile

I just spoke with my bf about 1 hour ago (he works for Air France at LAX) and they had a 772 sitting at the gate that arrived at 1600...and by 1930 the pax were still on board. To add to the complexity, their next flight from CDG, 73 (a 773), arrived at 1900, as did their flt from PPT (an A343). All told, as of 1930 PST all 3 planes had not been able to disembark, and in the queue were a Virgin A346 and an ANZ 744 (all residents of T2). He doesn't know the status at TBIT, but they were told by airport officials that it was a nationwide crash that took down most systems. At T2, only 4 computers were able to log back in, but they can only process passports by logging in to the internet (no fingerprints were being taken, and/or pictures per the new regulations). Again, he only knows about the situation at T2-LAX, so other terminals within LAX and other airports might have better connectivity at this time (or working back-up systems). They don't know when the system will be back on.

I understand that we need security, but why depend on a decades old computer system that crash at any time? It's inexcusable.

According to the report, 2 dozen A/C are waiting to offload close to 6000 pax. My bf was told that the actual list of planes is 27, and the computers are not back up 100%. Now it looks like the glitch wasn't nationwide as the officials first told the airlines at LAX, but rather a local problem (otherwise what would have been the point on diverting flights). Guess it's going to be a loooooong night!

Quoting TKV (Reply 16):I really do not understand these complaints about the government. Are computer breakdown not happening to private companies ?? I remember that year ago, the entire internet system of the NE broke down because of a ATT failure !! And anyway, how many such immigration system breakdowns happened in say the last 10 years ??

And who should monitor immigration ?? Private companies ??

Of course computer breakdowns happen to everybody, but my complaint has to do with both the age of the network used by immigration and the overwhelming tasks that the government expects to accomplish with antiquated equipment. The Air France crew at LAX has to deal with delays at least twice a month because the immigration system is down and they can't process their passengers ( a real issue on their PPT-CDG transit flight). I'm not asking for perfection, but if the government insists on these regulations then the least it could do is upgrade the system so that in can cope with the workload. I think that's a fair thing to ask.

I was returning from LHR on BA 268 back on January first, the whole lower level of TBIT is HORRIBLE! It just looks so old and run down. Maybe I've been spoiled with SNA and ONT, but TBIT is slow and ugly on a good day, today must be REALLY BAD!

Mark

[Edited 2007-08-12 08:08:05]

I Love ONT and SNA, the good So Cal Airports! URL Removed as required by mod

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):Based on all the uproar about passengers being stranded on aircraft, these flights would be required to return to the gate and allow the passengers to deplane. Just a perfect example of how the proposals to protect passengers not only is unworkable but that the government - who would be requiring actions from the airlines - is actually a cause of the airlines' problems.

It's not the same situation at all. Nor is this the cause of "all the airlines' problems." This is a big one day event.

The continued uproar is due to sitting due to weather delays, waiting to depart an airport when there's no chance of leaving, or waiting out a mechanical delay while an airline repairs a plane for hours.

Today is a very different issue, a legal and immigration issue, involving people waiting to enter/re-enter the USA, and the idea of "offloading them" is unworkable because there are such things as fire codes, and it sounds as if the terminals were to capacity. The flights that could deplane had done so. The others had to stay on the plane because there was simply no room in the terminals in the sterile "pre-clearance" area, and there is no way to open that space up to a larger area.

The proper thing to do was being done when possible: diverting planes to other airports that can handle customs, then putting people back on the plane to arrive at LAX as a "domestic" flight. Along with this, they got the backup system running, but it isn't as powerful as the main one. That seems to be the weak link in the system.

It points out that there should be a fully capable redundant system in place, not a half capable one.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 17):Of course computer breakdowns happen to everybody, but my complaint has to do with both the age of the network used by immigration and the overwhelming tasks that the government expects to accomplish with antiquated equipment
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I'm not asking for perfection, but if the government insists on these regulations then the least it could do is upgrade the system so that in can cope with the workload. I think that's a fair thing to ask.

What you say sounds reasonable. Only:

- The regulations do not exist because the government insists, but because unfortunately they are necessary.
- to modernize the system would cost a lot, and of course the airlines first and the pax ipso facto would pay the bill. To say the "government shall pay" is to ignore where the money would come from !
- I am not sure if the very large but few scale breakdowns happen because the equipments are in bad condition, which would be concerning. The sole fact that they are outdated does not imply that they are prone to fail
- In the real world, if money is scarce, anybody ceases to be up-to-date, in first place the private US legacy airlines flying outdated aircrafts as the MD8X's !
- And also this question must be answered: is it preferible for the pax that such incidents as today's occur sporadically, or it is to pay a surcharge for all flights to modernize the equipment now !!?

Local Los Angeles media just reported that the system is up, but still at limited capacity. The media stated there were 8,000 people waiting to be processed, but they can only do 1,300 per hour! It will be along night!.

Computer Issues are still resulting in a backlog for processing international arrivals at LAX.
DCC has bean advised that customs services are available at both ONT and SFO to assist in the processing of international arrivals. expect further updates as appropriate.