Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

What is the point of adding a gimmick QB to force a couple of cheap wins? The Dolphins installed a gimmick O, and used it to get to the playoffs for one year. But they have dropped back down to being out of the playoffs this past season. I dont want to use gimmicks to get one year of success. I want to build a strong base of this team that a couple of years down the line we will be a regular playoff team and winner of the NFC West. If we install an O with a gimmick QB we are going to have to alter it when we bring in a regular pocket passer to replace Vick, and that lack of stability isnt going to help the young players we have on offense

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

I still think is an above average passer because his passes go for more yards per pass than the average passer.

He is currently ranked 25th among active QBs for yards/pass. His passes do not, in fact, go for more yards per pass than the average passer.

Also, his percentages could be higher on a more pass friendly team besides the Falcons.

And the Rams is that "more pass friendly team"?

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

All I know is for certain is when McNabb went down who did the Eagles turn too? You would think it would have been a veteran QB who has seen it before. In his 1st game as a starter the young man Kolb was given the ball. He did struggle with the Saints although he had big yards in a cleanup effort he killed them in turnovers and play management. So again you would think the Eagles would then turn to Mr. Vick..... Wrong and they got it right when they stuck it out with the young man and the future looks bright in Philly.

So Vick is not even the 2nd best QB in Philly yet some want to argue he is one of the better QB's in the league? Unfortunately, due to bad moves from the Rams past in giving up on Warner way tooo soon and holding on to Bulger without a future backup has once again put the Rams in a bad place that they actually have to consider Vick as an option. This is the problem in itself that the Rams fail to identify good talent and hold on to the talent they have.

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

Originally Posted by 01d 0rd3r

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I said our #1 and #2 QB were better passers then Vick, Null has moved up a position on the depth chart.

Null has shown poise in the pocket and above average accuracy for someone coming out of a Div 2 school. He has shown patience and leadership in the huddle. Accuracy, patience, and poise are qualities that Vick has never possesed.

Thats the problem, you cant say Vick improved week after week, when he didnt play but maybe three plays week after week. And he has never been smart enough to read a defense, on the rare occasions that he throws the ball he has the luxury of throwing the people like Desean Jackson who seems to always be open, and then dump it off the LeSean McCoy.

Beileve it or not Ryan leaf was a very good QB coming out of College and was in the running for the first overall pick. Null has already shown that he has not inherited Leaf's Temperament, since he did not yell at the media after every loss. Null may not of proved he can win but neither has Vick, the only thing Vick has proved is that when his gimmick plays dont work Mcnabb can come back on the field and lead his team to victory. I never said Null could be a starter, But neither can Vick, and if I had to choose a backup, I would choose Null.

Above average accuracy for a DIV 2 school is not good enough to be an NFL QB. Comparing Null and Vick doesnt even seem like an issue to me. Vick has played in the NFL and has led his team to the playoffs. He has an uncanny ability to find a way to win. Not to mention he has always had a cannon for an arm.

It is very hard to get into the flow of a game as a QB when you only play a few snaps. Just listen to McNabb when they first started taking him out. The rhythm isnt there, the timing isnt there. To actually be able to make an impact despite limited reps with the first team offense and less time in the game, that's impressive. Especially in his first year back in the NFL.

Now, Vick did have the luxury of throwing to some pretty good targets at wide receiver. Something he's never had before. But he didnt have the luxury of additional reps and quality playing time.

I remember Ryan Leaf coming out of college. Hell I remember thinking that you couldnt miss on either QB. Either go with the general in Manning or the gun slinger in Leaf. Leaf also proved that while he was a good college QB, he was never cut out to be an NFL QB, and neither is Null.

The difference between the two is that Vick has proven that he can win games. Although it was a few years ago that he was a starter, that is still something that Null has never done in the NFL. And Vick obviously proved something to Andy Reid. Reid is a smart guy. He's not going to keep Vick and let Garcia go if Garcia plays better. He's not going to play Vick if he doesnt believe that Vick will help improve his team. And if Andy Reid believes that, then I dont see a reason why I shouldnt believe that he would help this team.

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

Originally Posted by tomahawk247

What is the point of adding a gimmick QB to force a couple of cheap wins? The Dolphins installed a gimmick O, and used it to get to the playoffs for one year. But they have dropped back down to being out of the playoffs this past season. I dont want to use gimmicks to get one year of success. I want to build a strong base of this team that a couple of years down the line we will be a regular playoff team and winner of the NFC West. If we install an O with a gimmick QB we are going to have to alter it when we bring in a regular pocket passer to replace Vick, and that lack of stability isnt going to help the young players we have on offense

Why do you think signing Vick will prevent us from building a strong base for this team? One stinking roster spot will not set our team back. You said it yourself, you hope a couple years down the line we will be a regular playoff team, why not take a shot on Vick and see what he can do for a couple seasons. I would do anything at this point to make it to the playoffs next year like the Dolphins did last year. Well, not really anything, but give up a small chunk of money (for NFL QBs at least) and maybe a couple of late round picks seems like a good price for at least a better shot at making it through our weak weak weak division.

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

Originally Posted by C-Mob 71

Why do you think signing Vick will prevent us from building a strong base for this team? One stinking roster spot will not set our team back. You said it yourself, you hope a couple years down the line we will be a regular playoff team, why not take a shot on Vick and see what he can do for a couple seasons. I would do anything at this point to make it to the playoffs next year like the Dolphins did last year. Well, not really anything, but give up a small chunk of money (for NFL QBs at least) and maybe a couple of late round picks seems like a good price for at least a better shot at making it through our weak weak weak division.

WHY... WON'T.... THIS... DEAD....HORSE.... DIE.... ALREADY....????

Beats me. A man who was given multiple chances to redeem himself ultimately let his old team's owner and fans down and literally gave them the bird. Despite being one of the least accurate quarterbacks in the league, being kept away from an NFL conditioning regime by incarceration, and reaching the age that most players lose their athleticism--which is frankly the only reason anyone would want an immoral, inaccurate cancer on their team in the first place--some people still seem to think that spending $5 million/year on a quarterback who is obviously not part of our long-term future is a good idea.

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

Why do you think signing Vick will prevent us from building a strong base for this team? One stinking roster spot will not set our team back.

For $5 million, an organization should get more than 3 or 4 snaps per game.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

Originally Posted by RamJackson39

The difference between the two is that Vick has proven that he can win games. Although it was a few years ago that he was a starter, that is still something that Null has never done in the NFL. And Vick obviously proved something to Andy Reid. Reid is a smart guy. He's not going to keep Vick and let Garcia go if Garcia plays better. He's not going to play Vick if he doesnt believe that Vick will help improve his team. And if Andy Reid believes that, then I dont see a reason why I shouldnt believe that he would help this team.

The difference is Reid brought in Vick for Goal line Situations and not to be a starter. If Reid thought Vick could be a starter he would have pulled McNabb in that awful Raiders game and sent Vick in, he didnt. If Reid though that highly of him he would have been #2 on the depth chart, he wasn't, Kolb was.

The Eagles brought in Vick for one reason, to put him in in goal line and have him run in a few touchdowns, once the season was over they could get a significantly higher price for him in a trade. It was a ploy to get some draft picks by Reid, and guess what. It is working.

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

you are looking at per attempt. per completions he is 3rd of all active QB's.

He is in fact tied for 3rd among active QBs for yards per completions at 12.4. And that is 0.1 yards/completion ahead of Charlie Batch. Maybe we should bring him in, too.

But why would we simply throw out completion percentage (which is the difference between yards/comp. and yards/attempt)? I guess when a QB like Vick (completion percentage ranked 37th among active QBs) is being considered, a proponent would probably want to leave that out.

and just another point, this year when he came into games the defenses knew he was gonna run the ball 99% of the time or handoff, and they still couldn't stop him , so I don't think hes lost his legs.

As Peoria has pointed out, his yards/run feel off sharply from where it was the last time he played football....3 years ago.....in his mid 20's......before he went to prison. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

Of course, we could just resign Boller.....his yards per carry was nearly 2 yards more than Vick.

His long completion to Maclin looked better than any pass that any ram QB completed this year...

More of a long Maclin run than a long Vick completion......and very fortunate the corner fell on Maclin's double move

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: Get Scared Vick Haters...

Originally Posted by HUbison

He is in fact tied for 3rd among active QBs for yards per completions at 12.4. And that is 0.1 yards/completion ahead of Charlie Batch. Maybe we should bring him in, too.

But why would we simply throw out completion percentage (which is the difference between yards/comp. and yards/attempt)? I guess when a QB like Vick (completion percentage ranked 37th among active QBs) is being considered, a proponent would probably want to leave that out.

As Peoria has pointed out, his yards/run feel off sharply from where it was the last time he played football....3 years ago.....in his mid 20's......before he went to prison. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

Of course, we could just resign Boller.....his yards per carry was nearly 2 yards more than Vick.

More of a long Maclin run than a long Vick completion......and very fortunate the corner fell on Maclin's double move

you argue against Vick like he has never done anything well.

He is a 3 time pro-bowler, #1 Overall Pick in the NFL draft, and one of the best atheletes the NFL has ever seen, yet you compare him to Boller and Null.

He did everything asked of him by Reid, the Eagles and the NFL both on and off the field.

He has the ablitiy to start and re-vive a dead franchise. He can do it for 1 year while we draft a QB for the future this or next year. He will be an additon to a building team that will feature athletes on the turf and speed and power.

Vick may not have proven he is an elite passer, but he has proven to be a very good player at the QB position.
He also proved he can win.
We needed to get back to .500. I and many feel he can do that the quickest while a QB for the future is on the way.

I am kinda tired of the whole Vick arguement.
It seems that there are only 3 teams that Vick could end up playing for.
Bills, Eagles, Rams.

Vick would seem to want to start and play on turf so I think the Rams are the favorite.

so if it comes down to Rams v. Bills I think he is more likely to come here based on the Philly connection and the indoors turf.
65% chance of Vick in the Forecast as of today