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It was fine until some one caught its autonomous car didn't stop for a red light at a pedestrian cross walk when the pedestrian already started to cross the street.

That's when DMV told UBER that dude, you need to get the permit.

UBER is now arguing that it does not require a permit because its operation is no different than Tesla Autopilot as "a driver can remove their hands from the wheel and their feet from the pedals. They're required to still keep their eyes on the road, and may need to retake control at any time."

It was fine until some one caught its autonomous car didn't stop for a red light at a pedestrian cross walk when the pedestrian already started to cross the street.

That's when DMV told UBER that dude, you need to get the permit.

UBER is now arguing that it does not require a permit because its operation is no different than Tesla Autopilot as "a driver can remove their hands from the wheel and their feet from the pedals. They're required to still keep their eyes on the road, and may need to retake control at any time."

What do you think?

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Tesla never claimed their cars would stop at a stoplight. End of story. Uber is abusing the law.

1) Human at the helm at all time to intervene as needed (which Uber can comply easily).
2) Report to CA DMV of all human interventions and accidents (even zero- or less-than-$750-damage accidents) which as the article above pointed, Uber is not cooperating.

Uber wants to build confidence for its riders the same way as it is doing now in Pittsburgh because it does not have to disclose that human driver has to intervene at least a dozen of times within 30 minutes.

It argues ignorance is power! If riders don't know that its system fails a dozen times within 30 minutes then it's Uber's success to build riders' confidence in technology!

Other companies take a different approach, they would test their systems in private testing facilitates and work out most of the bugs first so they don't have to advertise to the world that the system fails a dozen of times in just half an hour.

Once they are confident that it works well, they would then bring their test to the roads.

Autopilot is treated legally the same way as if a driver drives without additional aids and still has to be alert and be in control of the car at all time. Thus, each time the Autopilot hands over to human, drivers do not have report to CA DMV because the emphasis is on a competent alert driver not on a competent driver assisting system.

Put it in another way: Who is or will be the primary driver?

For Autopilot it will always be a human driver.

For Uber, the car will eventually be the primary driver without a human at the wheel. Thus, although currently, it is not a primary driver but practically it is be trained to be one.

That's why CA DMV needs to keep track of the progress of this "student driver" or autonomous system and mandates a permit.

In addition, I think, although Tesla does not report its Autopilot performance to CA DMV but it does voluntarily continuously keep records of failures/successes coming from the entire autopilot fleet as a whole (owners' and company's) and periodically share that data to NHTSA so the agency can keep track of Tesla Autopilot progress which will then be used to further support driverless program later on.

Please reference a source to support your statement. If you do not I will regard it as your personal speculation, nothing more.

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My usage of "system failure" may be too harsh.

The correct wording should be "riders don't know that its system is enhanced by human interventions a dozen times within 30 minutes":

"In a ride-along on Tuesday, a driver took control of the vehicle more than a dozen times in less than 30 minutes, citing concerns including proximity to a pedestrian and worry about creating gridlock by entering an already crowded intersection. "

@Tam, I'm interested in learning more about your statement that if Uber gets a California DMV permit for their self driving cars that means they will then have to turn over vehicle logs if one of the cars is involved in an accident. Can you give me a link to a source for more info about that? Thanks.

@Tam, I'm interested in learning more about your statement that if Uber gets a California DMV permit for their self driving cars that means they will then have to turn over vehicle logs if one of the cars is involved in an accident. Can you give me a link to a source for more info about that? Thanks.

"...Bridges don't have many environmental cues like surrounding buildings, it's hard for the Uber car to figure out where it is, Krikorian told Bloomberg. GPS helps the car position itself, but not to the accuracy Uber wants."

That's very strange! How would Uber deal with double deck bridge in San Francisco?

Much simpler Tesla Autopilot should do fine as long as there are clearly marked lanes or there's a leading car in front.

"...Bridges don't have many environmental cues like surrounding buildings, it's hard for the Uber car to figure out where it is, Krikorian told Bloomberg. GPS helps the car position itself, but not to the accuracy Uber wants."

That's very strange! How would Uber deal with double deck bridge in San Francisco?

Much simpler Tesla Autopilot should do fine as long as there are clearly marked lanes or there's a leading car in front.

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I really hate how articles like this make blanket statements regarding all self driving car implementations:

It was only for a few seconds, but it shows that the driverless cars aren't ready to handle bridges without supervision.

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