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I'll be impressed when...

The Etch installer is very nice. I started futzing with it when it was in its early release stages, and even with all the rough edges it looked good. I think it's the best Linux installer of all.

Gnome and KDE don't come all prettified like they are on the buntus and other distributions. You have to tweak them to suit. But for me it's a small price to pay to get Real Debian with all of its flexibility and upgrade-ability. Debian is still the only Linux that you can upgrade indefinitely without ever doing a reinstallation. Can't do that with RHEL or SUSE, and you sure as heck can't with the buntus. Yeah, I know some folks were able to upgrade from Dapper to Edge. I'll match at least equal numbers who ended up with hosed systems.

The one thing it's missing is to install Xen (with standard bridging that doesn't cut dom0 off). Just like LVM, it's one of those things you should setup anyway even if you aren't using it, as you will likely eventually want to, and you want that moment to be painless. For server installs, it's really a must now.

Ye gods, it's annoying enough that modern distros insist on installing LVM and RAID. Don't want them on most of my systems. Same goes for Xen and SELinux. I don't like the trend towards enabling Avahi on everything either. Anyone who wants them knows how to get them. Making them defaults is dumb.

Please do! That way the rest of us won't have to . . . . . (Ducks and runs for cover) :-)

I do agree with tc though about installing and enabling everytthing -- including the kitchen sink. I prefer a minimalist approach where I can add stuff if I find a need for it. Apparently, bloat isn't only a windows problem,

Not true. EVMS, which is a more advanced incarnation of LVM, can be added to any system after installation. And removed if you change your mind.

It's weird to advocate larding systems with stuff they don't need. It's just a source of trouble- updates take longer, and you have more potential security holes and dependency problems. Anyway the #1 reason to not be forced to have a bunch of stuff you don't want is because you don't want it.

dek, I challenge you and scrawler to a duel. I figure a ten-year Arch and Debian test ought to settle it definitively. As for you, o dek, I fling sharpened Vista CDs at you. Frisbees of death!

TC, are you, per chance, a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan? I mean, all this talk about slaying yourself and others... It just sounds like you've been swimming in Buffy's holy water hole. And sharpened Vista CD's? C'mon! Take that vista out, and put it on a box. That'll teach 'em. Of course, their boxes might get owned, and then you'd feel guilty... aw never mind.

>dek, I challenge you and scrawler to a duel. I figure a ten-year Arch and Debian test ought to settle it definitively

I'm reaching that goal, i think i've installed Slink on 1999, running Sid from basically day one, nVidia TNT wasn't supported by the stable XFree86, and updating daily. I could say i've only seen the Slink installer... (=

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