I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been a more discussed/debated point. Its quite obvious the prosecution is relying on being able to show that its TM screaming as its one of the only facts (someone was screaming for help and they have a witness saying it was TM) that they mention in their affidavit for probable cause.

Both families are mostly going to cancel themselves out, though I imagine Serino will be called to testify that Tracy initially said it was not his son, so if anything, the family's statements appear to balance in Z's favor.

The FBI experts said the recording is too poor, though there are other voice experts who say they can tell who isn't screaming. The prosecution is going to fight like heck to get those experts in, but they have to overcome their own experts that say the audio isn't good enough and the voice is too stressed to try and make a determination. There of course would also be the issue of trying to compare a calm speaking voice inside a car with a screaming voice of desperation outside from far away. Also, if the screaming voice was Z's, he'd have a broken nose at this point which would also alter his voice. I'd be quite surprised if any expert testimony gets in saying it wasn't Z and I think its most likely the experts are going to say we can't tell from the 911 call.

The witness testimony is kinda mixed as many indicate the screams sound like that of a young boy. Of course there wasn't a young boy involved in the conflict, so I'm not sure how the judge/jury would see that. The defense would like to have a recent recording of TM's voice. IT doesn't seem clear if one exists. His photos would obviously indicate that he has hit and gone through puberty, but that can't show how deep his voice is, other than showing he's not boy like. W6 appears to be the best witness to identify the voice having Martin on top and yelling from what he believes to be from the guy on the bottom. Austin could help as well as he see's the man in red on the ground and he yelled for help, but Austin's mom seems to have some reservations about her sons testimony, so we don't know what he will end up testifying to.

The physical injuries seem to back Z screaming for that length of time.

The words captured on the recording also seem to help Z. They certainly sound like the desperate screams of someone in fear for their life and in pain. I guess one could argue that TM could be fearing for his life if Z had his gun drawn, but you don't hear any mention of a gun or any warning related to that in the screams. This is obviously going to be the prosecutions claim, but its pretty difficult to believe that TM and Z could have been struggling over a gun for this amount of time with Z getting hit multiple times and the gun never going off and none of the cries for help mentioning anything about a gun. Also, no witnesses ever mention seeing a gun, but obviously it is dark.

IF I had to put odds on how the court would see the screams, I'd say its right around the legal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt that Z is screaming. If you are asking what I personally believe, I'd say I'm at least 95% sure that the screams for help are Z's. IF I could hear TM's voice, it would sway my opinion.

Succinctly said leftwig. And to answer your question on why it isn't discussed more, is because the Trayvon supporters know their arguments regarding the screams are absolutely ludicrous. So they'll focus endlessly on the so called discrepancies of GZ's testimony.

In my opinion, the screams are pivotal, and the evidence is overwhelming the screams were made by the person that was violently assaulted (GZs). It goes beyond common sense to think otherwise, you need to have an agenda, or simply want to give every benefit of the doubt possible to TM for various ideologies.

And speaking of ideologies, I'm a liberal who thinks Obama is the best president of my lifetime.

... Also, if the screaming voice was Z's, he'd have a broken nose at this point which would also alter his voice. ... The physical injuries seem to back Z screaming for that length of time....

Now that you are putting it as you do, I'm wondering, with a broken nose and assuming blood is draining down the back of his throat, would GZ really be able to project his voice enough to be heard in the background as it is --- so loud, sustained, and strong?

I keep going back and forth on the voice (whether it's GZs or TMs) myself and apparently GZs exemplar sheds no new light on it either, unless I'm mistaken re the results.

At any rate, I happened to stumble upon the following audio of the part of the 911 call from which the screaming and gunshot are both heard and thought I would post it here for any audio experts (which I'm not) to weigh in on it (below). The person who worked on the audio feels a scream can be heard just seconds after the shot. Now I thought all such pertinent extraneous sounds had been identified, i.e., a witness thought there was more than one gunshot -- it turned out to be a screen door slamming type of thing? I'm not so sure the "scream" is a screen door, however, but maybe it is or there is some other explanation for it. I also don't remember GZ referring to a "scream" after the shot. (Long) before this, it seems to me I could hear it when listening to the regular call because whatever I thought I'd heard (& it's a very vague memory, might not even be the same sound), I thought was coming from the home of the caller; I could be wrong about that though. Anyway, here is the link and the caption; the gunshot is at 1:09 and the "scream" is around 1:12. Perhaps some of you already know about this audio OR what the police attributed as the source of the "scream"? :

333maxwell's caption: "911 calls of altercation in background between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. This audio was compressed, and runs at just a .o1 of a tenth over half speed. It's pitch however is 100 percent true to the original."

When the 911 calls were originally released, I downloaded them and looked at them using Audacity, a free audio editor. When you look at the screams and do a frequency analysis the very last scream is at a higher register than the rest. It appears to me that the last scream is actually from a different person.

Mary one of the commentators here did detailed audio analysis using professional tools and published the results ( including screen shots of some Time Domain Analyzer)

He struck me as a neutral , and qualified analyst. As I remember he found an approximately 1 second delay after the last scream stopped and the shot. He also notice that the volume of the last few screams was muted.

Maybe someone can help find the posts?

I would like to get see his analysis.

I listened. To be honest it sounded like a background sound in the police station? But that's a very uneducated guess.

When the 911 calls were originally released, I downloaded them and looked at them using Audacity, a free audio editor. When you look at the screams and do a frequency analysis the very last scream is at a higher register than the rest. It appears to me that the last scream is actually from a different person.

When the 911 calls were originally released, I downloaded them and looked at them using Audacity, a free audio editor. When you look at the screams and do a frequency analysis the very last scream is at a higher register than the rest. It appears to me that the last scream is actually from a different person.

It's a different word being screamed, but by the same person*. The word being screamed at the end isn't "help" .. it is "stop." You can verify this by "reading" the spectrograph of the audio (if you aren't experienced in reading it you probably won't be able to, and I really don't have the time to explain it, maybe some audio analyst out there somewhere has already done the reading and typed it up on their blog somewhere).

"By the same person" is my opinion, which I posted reasoning for elsewhere in these forums.

You both know I'm referring to the "scream noise" after the shot, correct?

No I am referring to the screaming just before the gun shot. Since I used free software, you can download it and verify it yourself. I'm personally suspicious of people who say 'trust me' based on their credentials, but who don't provide any way to verify their credentials.

Okay, thanks to you both. Yes I'd like to see the detailed analysis -- would it be in the TL forum? say, late March? (just guessing re when the 911 calls were released; maybe it was mid-March?)

It sort of sounds like there is a kid in the home and I was thinking maybe it was the child (if there was one there). The lady keeps telling someone to get away from the window and come here, etc.

That's her fiancee, Jeremy. She is W-11 and he is W-20.

After the gunshot they ran upstairs. He was slow and she called to him. At one point you hear her say 'get up here.' After they were upstairs she told him to stay away from the windows.

Mary Cutcher also called to Selma Lamilla, causing the dispatcher to ask if she had a child. She said her child was across the street.

I believe Austin was the only minor in the homes from which 911 calls were made. One of the children of W-1 or W-2 (house-sharing sisters who didn't call) was present with a friend. I picture them as teenagers, but I don't remember if there was any actual indication of how old they are.

333maxwell's caption: "911 calls of altercation in background between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. This audio was compressed, and runs at just a .o1 of a tenth over half speed. It's pitch however is 100 percent true to the original."

It is the original. I'm not sure what exactly this person is pointing out but what I hear (and see) is:

(Note: By "see" I mean in the spectrograph. When you do audio analysis a lot of it is visual - looking at various things. For example, the beep mentioned above, I'm 100% certain it's electronic because the signature in the spectrograph indicates as much. How can I be certain? Well, I'll give a couple reasons but there are many more: 1) lack of entropy, everything in nature [to include noises made by human bodies] is affected by entropy, 2) The frequency of the noise isn't variable, it does not change at all throughout the whole duration.)