I missed my phone appointment with my therapist yesterday so am sharing here for some perspective.

Friday night myself and my Fiancé met up with his friends who he also works with. My relationship with them is great, and we get along well. The friend, we will call him Rich. He lives on his own, I've never considered him threatening and he seemed like one of the more responsible guys. However he is a drinker. When Rich drinks though he has a tendency to get intense. He'll smile and shake grab your shoulders and shake you, or throw his arm around you and rock with you (mostly to the guys, we find it funny and not really invasive since it's not perversion, he's just drunk and excited.) While at the brewery you can tell he's gone but he hides it well. he doesn't stumble or slur, he stares you right in your eye, wide-eyed and calm. BUT I work as a bartender so this is nothing I haven't seen before.

I hadn't;t been drinking and asked everyone who wanted to head to the bowling alley and majority ruled. But then somehow everyone determine we all had to go to Rich's house because they can play pool. Everyone is having a good time (their female coworker/ my new friend was in the front seat with me being super awesome with directions) and I'm having fun just hauling these drunkards back to Rich's.

We get there and after I pop out for a cigarette I decide I'll make myself a cocktail at his bar set up and if I can't keep it in moderation my Fiancé and I can crash and leave when one of us sobers up.

I ask Rich if he has any soda because all he has is liquor & liqueurs. He asks me what I need it for and I explain I can't make a cocktail with all that. So he tells me he has soda and to come with him and he leads me into his garage. Everyone else is playing pool and just having a loud time. So I'm in the garage and he points to a fridge. I open it up and it's just beer and I look at him. He asks me if I see any soda in there and when I say no, he tells me that's right because he will not be helping me drink if I'm DD tonight. I can tell he's fucking black out drunk and toying with me. I say, "okay Rich" and as I try to walk past him to the door, he puts his hands on my shoulders and forces me to stay. He proceeds to tell me that I can drink but he will not help me because his best friend is dying from drinking. I try again to get past him and this time he forcibly holds me there shoulders and arms. I remind him he drinks and drives from our house and he agreed and wouldn't budge.

I have a much stronger, but not taller, black out drunk man with his hands on me forcibly keeping me in his garage to prove a point. I am not okay at that point.

I'm trying to stay calm, I'm kind of smiling at him, and finally I just tilt my head up and call my fiancé twice. It's loud inside so no one can hear me but me doing that causes Rich to look at me with a pissed off look and says "Oh!, am I making you uncomfortable???" and barely lets me walk past him. I immediately grabbed my stuff and told my Fiancé to meet me in the car. I told him immediately and since he's non confrontational, I asked him to speak to him at work about it. I don't think anyone inside understood what happened.

Im so creeped out.

​

JohnnyNocksville 304

Now that Rich has shown you his true side, it’s up to you to keep yourself safely away from him. Your non-confrontational fiancé may suggest you all hang out: Rich will be fine, it’s not that big of a deal, other people will be there, he will keep you safe.
Stay the fuck away from Rich, he will do this to you again, especially since he got away with it once. When people show you who they are, believe them.

Reddituser703 102

When people show you who they are, believe them.

Yup

FuckYouThrowaway99 2

Can't agree more. This guy showed you who he was. Drunk has nothing to do with it. I've been and known drunk for a long time and this has never happened to me or been me. I'm a guy. But I've seen guys like this and they were seedy guys outside of being drunk...it just kicked it up a notch to unsave territory. Like this guy did. Stay away from him.

turingtested 128

What makes me the most uncomfortable about this is that Rich isolated you. It's not like he jokingly grabbed you in front of everyone and wailed "Noooo you're the designated driver! You must not drink!" in a silly way. That could still be extremely uncomfortable, but at least you could understand it as poor judgement.

It seems to me like he planned to get you alone and scare you.

Please let your fiance know exactly what happened. Sometimes men have a hard time understanding how physically intimidating a man can be to a woman, make it very clear to him.

I would avoid Rich. Often behavior like this escalates.

MotherofNoise 16

It seems to me like he planned to get you alone and scare you.

You have summed it up. Thank you.

Something in him told him this would be a better idea than just asking me not

to drink and drive (or ask my plan for when I do start drinking).

warpaint101 98

That is not okay. Not even close to acceptable behavior on Rich’s part.

Your fiancé doesn’t have to be “confrontational” if he doesn’t want to be, but he needs to sit down and have a serious talk with Rich.

He owes it to you and to his “friend” to make it absolutely crystal clear that the man was inches away from a possible physical assault / false imprisonment charge.

If he gets wasted and tries that on someone else they may not be so forgiving.

MotherofNoise 75

Thank you. This is how I feel too. I told him if he doesn't speak with him I will contact him myself to let him know it was inappropriate, and frightening. I am thanking my lucky stars that I was sober and could fully examine what was happening. My current ultimatums are that I don't want Rich coming over anymore and will absolutely not drink at anyone else's house.

"Assault" is the only word I could think of because that is what it was. I come from an abusive home and have been pinned down and have had people use their size to overpower me, so it was a major trigger. When I realized he knew there was no soda in the fridge I just wanted to bolt. I forgot to add that I have this little Viper taser I take with me out. I did have it in my pocket probably 5 minutes prior to the event (end up putting it down with my keys.) My mind actually went to the taser while in the garage. I told my Fiancé that was the closest I ever got to using it on someone and I've owned a taser for 2 years now.

warpaint101 11

You should have used it. Lol That would be a lesson Rich wouldn’t soon forget.

MotherofNoise 10

Right!

(unfortunately I set it down with my keys inside. I guess I didn't feel the need to keep it on me).

Lizakaya 56

Rich should now be completely blocked form your social circle. I guarantee this is not the only time he’s done something like this.

I didn’t either. I’m trying to think of one in our group and i can’t....well one who was verbally abusive to women when he was drunk but an angel when he was sober. He’s dead now.

Anzi 8

Oof, this hits really close to home. I know who the missing stair is in my group, and now I'm not sure what to do about it.

JohnnyNocksville 4

Such a relatable term, thanks for the reference.

MadoogsL 21

Lots of men don't understand how scary it is to be physically overpowered like that. It sounds like he has a history of getting physical with his friends and no one has corrected it - he now has gotten the same level of physical with you not understanding that you're a woman and the context of how you will receive that interaction is TOTALLY different especially when isolated from the others. That doesn't mean he's going to start hitting you though or beating you up. It sounds like he treats you as one of the guys which can be a compliment and a curse (being a female with almost all male friends i get treated like one of them too sometimes and I don't always appreciate the behaviors that are acceptable to each other being directed towards me.
If he's only a little rough with his friends when he's drunk and he's usually a nice guy I think you should personally talk to him yourself. It will mean more coming from you if you tell him what he did and explain that it made you feel afraid for your safety and that you didn't like how he got annoyed at you for being afraid. Let him know that being touched, especially being overpowered, is a giant trigger for your. If he's a good guy he will listen and apologize. If he's a jerk he will blow you off and dismiss you and then you can decide whether you should cut him out of your life or not. It sounds like he is in a friend group that you socialize with a lot and usually you all get along so it's worth trying to fix the situation and honestly you will feel WAY more empowered if you handle it yourself (only when you are both sober!) His intentions seemed like they were in the right idea but terribly executed. He was definitely exaggeratedly drunk and I'm not excusing this behavior but it doesn't sound like he was trying to be predatory or nasty. I'm sorry you were afraid :/ but I think it healthiest for you to confront him and then decide how you want to handle the friendship after he responds to you. Maybe mention to him that you are concerned for him and how much he drinks if he's getting that out of control...
Good luck! ❤ I hope you don't feel like I am discounting your feelings only trying to offer some perspective about how you could handle it because that's pretty shitty but it sounds like of you are willing you could resolve it

threefourshutthedoor 12

I get what you're saying. I'm friends with guys too and dealing with them directly if there is a problem can be satisfying. That said, my guy friends don't treat me like this and they don't treat each other like this. If anyone gets drunk and stupid and violent we put a stop to it, no matter who it is, because we're all friends and we look out for each other. I don't think this is OPs problem to fix alone at this point especially if what happened scared her. It needs to be dealt with but if she's got a good group of friends then there is no reason for her to take this on alone. If Rich apologizes and takes action, like stopping drinking for a while, then they can move forward as a group and help Rich resolves own and resolve -his- issue. If Rich doesn't take steps then at least the whole group is aware of his issue so it doesn't happen to someone else and can help support OP. We don't have to deal with this stuff alone if we've got good friends.

MadoogsL 4

I didn't mean to say OP should handle it alone just be the person doing the talking about how she feels because it happened to her and I think she can most effectively communicate how the situation affected her. Definitely having the backup of her SO and other friends there during the conversation would make it even more effective :)

MotherofNoise 1

Thank you :)

Crazy_Weasel 15

Not saying that it’s okay, because it’s not but if I’m reading this right (English isn’t my first language) he tried to stop you from drinking and driving. If this is true his intentions were good, maybe a bit controlling, but his actions didn’t quite line up with his train if thought .

What I’m trying to say is that he might not be a bad guy, just a dumbass when he’s drunk. Confront him about it (you or your fiancé) but try bot to give up on him so easily.

Again, not excusing his behavior, but in his mind he might have thought he was doing the right thing

Edit: Spelling mistake

thelbro 4

good people do bad things and vice versa and being drunk is not an excuse. He only needs to go too far once. You say that you're not trying to excuse his behavior but your other words say otherwise.

Crazy_Weasel 0

It’s difficult to say what I’m trying to say. The short version would be that 1 bad action doesn’t make him a bad person by definition.

LePouletMignon -4

People do dumb shit all the time, doesn't mean you need to demonize them. Besides, the OP's story is confusing and difficult to read. Wouldn't be surprised if something was left out of the equation. Replace the man in this story with a woman and you get what I'm trying to say. Men can't do shit in this day and age without being called out on it. You walk behind a woman at night she'll run away and tell her friends that some creepy dude was trying to rape her. Popular gender discourse is so far out of touch with reality that men are constantly misunderstood as a result. This time around Rich' problem was that he apparently was physically too large to be deemed innocent. Clearly, his size makes him a bad person.

Bottom-line is that he didn't hurt her. He was concerned that the OP was about to drunk-drive and went a little too far in an attempt to prevent a crime. But hey, just because he's a physically large man we'll ignore these facts.

kt-bug17 4

Context matters. If he had been doing this to OP in the same room as everyone else it probably would have been fine with OP- seen as annoying but ultimately harmless.

However he led OP to an isolated area where people from the party wouldn’t be able to hear her if she called for help under false pretenses and then refused to let her leave. He‘s acting weird and erratic and angry with OP. He was blackout drunk and was willing to use his superior strength to physically restrain her to prevent her from getting back to the others.

Anyone would be feeling weird and scared about how this situation was progressing, man or woman. Can you really not understand why OP was worried this could potentially escalate to something much more dangerous?

thelbro 2

There's a difference between dumb and premeditated. Rich purposely isolated her and tried to physically intimidate her. Regardless of what kind of hypothetical situation you pose, Rich is in the wrong and he should bear the full responsibility for his actions.

I'm also getting a hint of playing the victim here, red-pill much?

ImperialSnood 12

Christ, I don’t blame you for feeling uncomfortable. It sounds like you dealt with the situation really calmly when it wouldn’t be unreasonable to totally panic. This guy tried to take all the power in the situation and you saw this was unacceptable.

You have no obligation to see him again... If people say that’s an overreaction or unreasonable and you feel that way, it’s not!

heliogt2 10

This dude needs to stop drinking for a while.

​

DConstructed 10

The voice of reason was also a scary menacing guy.

No he should not have restrained you, Yes he should have said "you're DD I refuse to help you drink".

If one of his friends is dying from drinking you might want to sit down with him and tell him flat out that he could be next because he is drinking to the point of blackout and it is making him scary and probably killing him at the same time.

milky_oolong 22

Dude NO, he was not the voice of reason. He was perfectly able to tell her all this stuff in the house but he had NO RIGHT to actually prevent her from drinking. Nor to lead her to a secluded area under false pretenses. Nor to rob her of her freedom which is illegal.

Like jesus, if the DD decides to drink you can call them and their posse a cab or house them overnight. And if they literally leave with a car you can call the police as they try to leave.

It‘s outrageous to call him anything close to „voice of reason“. He felt entitled ro treat her like HIS OWN misbehaving CHILD.

DConstructed 8

Yeah his logic sucked because he was drunk. I never said how he did it was okay.

What he said however was valid. Not how he said it.

He didn't treat her like a child. He treated her like a fellow drunk driver who he didn't want to die. And I suspect wanted to confess to someone about his dying friend.

I am not condoning his behavior.

milky_oolong 2

No, what he said isn‘t right either. She had drunk nothing and the event was ongoing. One drink in the course of the evening would have been legal in many places. She was mixing a cocktail with WATER for goodness sake, not making shot games.

She‘s a bartender and an adult and she should have been given the benefit of the doubt. If he wanted to play daddy he should have taken her keys (and every other person there) and only given them back after a breathalizer test. Or told her this stuff if she was actually trying to drive away.

Like, imagine I got drunk and, as someone with medical information, I went to every smoker and started giving them patronising and unwanted advice how that’s going to kill them or seriously lower their life quality.

He was a boorish drunk asshole who is so drunk he feels he knows better and feels social rules like personal space and who gets to tell what don‘t apply anymore.

DConstructed 1

You know what? I've never met a designated driver who drank when it was their night to drive.

And just to be sure I looked it up.

Designated drivers are people who don't drink so they can drive their friends. That's what one is.

She was wrong. He was wrong. They're probably a bunch of drunks who endanger people on a regular basis.

She's a DD who said she might drink beyond her limit when for the safety of her friends and other drivers she should not have been drinking at all. No benefit of the doubt.

While second hand smoke is dangerous to others it's not the same as getting behind the wheels when you "think" you're sober enough to drive. Yes he's a drunk, she's hanging out with drunks it's a group of drunks.

xplctv 13

Whether the admonishment against drinking is warranted or not, isolating someone in the garage under false pretenses and using threatening language and postures is not the way to do it.
I’m boggled how someone drunk or sober would think this was a good plan. As uninhibited and gregarious as Rich supposedly is, you would think he would have called OP out openly instead of this bizarre convoluted scheme to take them to more alcohol in order to tell them not to drink alcohol.

DConstructed 3

I don't understand the mind of a drunk.

forrest38 8

No he should not have restrained you, Yes he should have said "you're DD I refuse to help you drink".

You know DD doesnt mean not drinking right? It just means drinking responsibly so you arent impaired. This around 1 drink an hour per person, but it varies greatly depending on a lot of factors including weight, gender, how much you have eaten, etc. Your parents never took you out to dinner had a cocktail at the bar, then 2 glasses of wine over the course of a two hour meal, then drove home? Also, OP even said she would have slept for a few hours at the guys home, if he hadn't made her uncomfortable. Nothing that guy did was ok.

DConstructed -4

I agree what he did wasn't okay.

But anyone who is a designated driver and says this " if I can't keep it in moderation my Fiancé and I can crash and leave when one of us sobers up." Scares the hell out of me.

"If I can't keep it in moderation" means Do Not Drink if you even think you might be driving.

No you can "sober up" enough to drive with a nap. Nor would I trust someone who had be trying to nap off a drunk to know for certain when they were safe.

Her drunk scary drunk driving friend was right. She should not have been drinking. He should not have been drinking.

Yes my parents have had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner. But neither of them would be drinking with the idea "I can nap it off".

They knew their limit and drank below that.

The thought of any of that bunch on the road is terrifying.

thissucks76 7

You're taking that way out of context. Its like no one has ever decided to drink more or less before, you don't have to drink the same amount everytime you drink. Not keeping in moderation doesn't mean gross excess, for all you know that could mean 1 drink over her limit or 5.

Besides, you're completely wrong, a few hours can be plenty of time to let your body process the alcohol and sober up. Drinking a few glasses of wine and then driving soon afterward is much worse than having drinks and not drinking for a few hours, possibly overnight.

DConstructed 3

Yeah well, sorry if I don't say "YAY!".

I think if you're designated driver you need to drink well below you limit or you shouldn't offer to do it.

People often misjudge when alcohol will hit them or how sober they really are.

If she is DD she should either not drink at all or stick well below anything she thinks is her limit.

forrest38 -3

You are assuming OP didn't know her limits.

DConstructed 11

I'm assuming from what she said that she was willing to go over her limits. I am going by the words she herself wrote.

sezit 1

Would you consider doing an email summary and sending it to him and to the group? Or at least a few of them? Tell them that you never want to be in his presence again, he terrorized you that badly.

Yes, you should stay away from him. But why not ask them for help? The Shane does not belong to you. Every one of these guys should feel the shame that a guy they were friends with tthpught it was ok to attack and threaten a woman.

This is an opportunity for for them to create a better community, to give them the opportunity to stand up for you and any other woman they might expose him to if they stay friends. It also might shock him into getting his head fixed. Or his drinking problem. If you never tell them, he definitely won't change. And they can't help.

MotherofNoise 5

Thank you for your reply.

I am not against speaking to him about it, and I will not share it in the group without my Fiancé speaking to him first. Although I am not okay with what occurred, I am not okay with tarnishing someone to other's for the sake of me feeling better. I want to know if he remembered doing it and what his actions are after that; if he apologetic, is he justifying his actions because he didn't want me to drink? It's a discussion best left between us and if he doesn't care I'll definitely stand up for myself. Now I am not crying myself to sleep, or having a panic attack, I am just very unnerved and needed some guidance. I've had drunk people act all kinds of ways, but leading someone somewhere, putting your hands on them unwarranted, and blocking a doorway will get you bounced from anywhere, period.

sezit 3

You sound like you can handle it well.

Sadly, the likelihood is that he will deny your accounting of the interaction and tell you that you got it all wrong. One thing that can help is if you have a short summary statement of your experience and what you expect of him, and you repeat it a couple times if he denies what he did. But make sure you know what outcome you want, and stick to it, because guys like this can be master manipulators.

Good luck!

MotherofNoise 3

I appreciate your comment. I walked in and it got quiet, grabbed my stuff, someone said goodbye and I hustled out of the door. It took about a minute for my Fiancé to come out and his other friend behind him. The goodbye between us (them laughing and thinking I'm just ready to go) was the sign I knew no one knew something uncomfortable happened. If I have to, my goal is to explain to him I didn't intend to get drunk and drive (we can crash and I have Uber installed), so if his prerogative was to block me from drinking and driving, I see that. He just went about it the wrong way and that's is where he falls short in this instance. I would hope he doesn't try to twist it in his favor, I was sober, so it would be deafening to see him try and justify it.

Perhaps he will find a victim who cannot escape soon? Better everyone is warned!

Best of luck, that all sounded awful.

Mazzystr -1

YouTube search groin kick and hammer punch and practise. Drop him like a bag of potatoes next time he pulls that bullshit then laugh at him.

LePouletMignon -5

Sorry, but think you're overreacting here.

tintalent

TL;DR: "Rich" is a complete asshole.

mursilissilisrum -5

much stronger

Next time yell "get your fucking hands off of me." If he doesn't get the message then punch yourself really hard in the shoulder. His metatarsals will cushion the blow and if he doesn't let go from the pain then he'll let go on account of the fact that you just broke his hand. Or you could just rub your knuckles on some exposed bone surfaces.

Lots of options, but it really depends on how mean you're feeling. No good comes out of fixating on somebody else's bulk.

milleniajc 11

Or she risks angering the guy who already thinks it's ok to trap her in the garage

mursilissilisrum 1

I'm usually the one advising people not to escalate things when there's no need, but she was already trapped in a fringe area by somebody who didn't want to let her leave. This isn't a friend acting like a drunken douchebag. This is pretty much the classic sequence of events that leads up to somebody being raped in an empty room at a party.

Also, I kind of doubt that he's going to start punching her with his broken hand. It's going to be pretty hard for him to make a fist. And there's a pretty good chance that he can't really throw a punch that well when he's sober and his skeleton is in the correct number of pieces that it should be. The best solution is to avoid that crap altogether, but I'm honestly sick of listening to people act like the feeble woman-folk couldn't possibly beat the crap out of the big strong manly men on account of some lazy thinking about human physiology.

Also, you're not supposed to stand there and fight the dude like you're in a boxing ring. The entire point is get the fuck out of there. When in doubt, walk.

thissucks76 6

Movies are not real life. Most people men or women cannot deftly break someones hand, to "deescalate" a situation.

mursilissilisrum 0

What on earth makes you think that breaking bones deescalates a situation? The point is to physically disable somebody from using those bones (and whatever else is attached to them). Metacarpals are also really easy to break. In general, it doesn't really take a lot of skill to break bones. You just load things up in ways that they shouldn't be loaded up and eventually they'll give.

And if you're ever trapped in a fringe area by somebody who is trying to physically prevent you from leaving then things have gone way past the point where you should be thinking about deescalation.

Theycallmemrlurker -8

I honestly don't see that much terribly wrong here. He shouldn't have continued holding on after you called out for help, but he wasn't doing anything malicious other than stop a DD from drinking. But hey, I wasn't there so I can't pass judgment either way.

hiroineprotagonist 20

If all he cared about was stopping her from drinking, why did he lure her into the garage where he told her to open a fridge full of beer (which is alcohol), then physically grab her, and intentionally menace her?

There’s no part of this that is normal or ok. If he had said initially, “I’m not comfortable giving you alcohol since you’re the DD”, it would have been fine.

Edit: maybe you have different standards for friends, but if one of my friends behaved like this toward me I would have to reconsider our friendship unless they apologized on their own and worked on their drinking. I don’t need to be physically assaulted by my friends, but that’s just me.

BooBack 9

Also she did say they could Uber if she did in fact drink. So. It’s not like she was bombed about to get in a car. Seems like an acquaintance to her who should have minded his own business. I agree, this person would not be my friend after this incident.

mursilissilisrum -7

If all he cared about was stopping her from drinking, why did he lure her into the garage where he told her to open a fridge full of beer (which is alcohol), then physically grab her, and intentionally menace her?

Because drunk people are fucking stupid and don't register anything within half a second of whatever instant they're in.

MotherofNoise 17

I tried justifying that he was drunk, and is a nice guy otherwise. But I was there, and he was in the wrong for overpowering me a good three times, especially through holding me and blocking the door. It does suck that it happened and he had every right to tell me not to drink if I was DD, but how he handled it was just too aggressive. The issue about blaming it on drinking is that it's just that, an excuse. Drinking to oblivion into what transpired, is irresponsible on his part and he does owe me an apology.

mursilissilisrum 2

People hate me for saying this, but rubbing your knuckles into somebody's metacarpals will make them let go of you. It won't really result in any significant injury (so it's not so good if the other person is in a blind rage or just not responding to pain) but in general it really fucking hurts and people will want to get their hands off of you. The sternal rub can work too.

Absolutely do your best to recruit help, but ultimately you're the one who's calling the shots even when some drunk dickhead is trying to dominate you.

People hate me for saying this, but rubbing your knuckles into somebody's metatarsals will make them let go of you. It won't really result in any significant injury (so it's not so good if the other person is in a blind rage or just not responding to pain) but in general it really fucking hurts and people will want to get their hands off of you. The sternal rub can work too.

Theycallmemrlurker -3

For sure, I agree on him needing too apologize. I also feel like if he's been a good friend, you should just talk to him about it. I always hate reddit when it comes to romantic and platonic relationship advice. I'm a proponent of fixing friendships if possible.

What he did was wrong, but does it make him a inherently unforgivable person? That's for you to decide.

Arnold729

He put his hands on your shoulders. Really? Thats it?! Pfff. What a drama queen

KonniMon -12

I mean you shouldn't bjust assume you can crash at his place first. Sure, he shouldn't touch you, but still, it seems like you both could use better communication skills.

xianbeijing 8

...or maybe it's pretty normal for them to crash round.

GalaxiesFall -43

“Im so creeped out”

Well it’s over so get over it dude come on you’re a grown up right?

People can be assholes especially when drunk, and everyone finds themselves in awkaward or uncomfortable positions sometimes. Next time maybe knee him in the balls but this is Nothing to whine about like for real just get over it and move on!