Axanar Tries to Rally Fan Films to Its Proposed Guidelines

With CBS and Paramount reportedly drafting guidelines for fan films, Axanar producer Alec Peters has reached out to at least nine fan productions for their support of rules Peters wants the studios to accept, and isn’t having much luck.

Among the rules included in Peters’ proposal were a time-limit on fan films’ running time, an end to crowdfunding via platforms such as Kickstarter and Indiegogo, restrictions on perks that could be offered to donors and the ability to pay professional cast and crew who work on fan productions.

Proposed Guidelines

AxaMonitor obtained copies of Peters’ proposed guidelines from multiple sources who spoke on condition of anonymity. The document reads:

According to pro-Axanar blogger Dave Heagney Jr., Peters has contacted almost every major fan film producer seeking suggestions on guidelines. Eight joined a private Facebook chat group to discuss Peters’ first draft.

“I just felt that all the active fan films should be able to share their thoughts together in a constructive way,” Peters said. “Most of them don’t speak to CBS, and clearly we are communicating with them regularly, so it felt like the right thing to do.“

Included among the group of fan producers Peters contacted was James Cawley, leader of the long-running and well known Star Trek: New Voyages, who stated in a post on Trek author Dave Galanter’s Facebook page that he rebuffed Peters’ efforts:

And now, like clockwork, Alec is texting and trying to make nice, so we will all join him in creating guidelines to give to CBS. I politely declined and received several insults…. sigh.

In the blog posted following AxaMonitor’s publication, Peters stated:

“Unfortunately, James Cawley of Star Trek: New Voyages said no without even hearing a proposal. He was the only one who declined. Everyone else wanted to at least see what a set of proposed guidelines would look like.”

Crowdfunding Preserved
Peters’ proposal, Item 3, to end crowdfunding was not well received by some of the fan producers, according to a transcript of their conversation obtained by AxaMonitor, as they worked to revise Peters’ first draft.

“Nix #3,” one of the producers told Peters. “Rule #3 [ending crowdfunding] would basically END fan films. Why would we want to do that?”

Another producer agreed: “I would take out #3 and let them [CBS and Paramount] decide if they want that stopped.”

“I well remember many fan films don’t fundraise,” Peters said. “We can nix it. … But you do all realize that Star Wars does not allow crowdfunding? And there is no way CBS will allow it to move forward [but] it is done.”

The crowdfunding ban was removed from version 2 of Peters’ proposal.

Professional Actors in Fan Films
At least one of the fan producers also disagreed with Peters’ proposal that fan films using actors who are SAG-AFTRA members be forced to become signatories to the actors union’s New Media Agreement.

“I would also remove #6. … New Media is still something that actor unions are ironing out today,” that producer told Peters. “That isn’t something that can really be enforced at this time, so I wouldn’t include it in the rules.”

Peters disagreed: “Disagree on SAG. That is important. … And New Media is what we all are. SAG is putting a lot of effort behind it. Would be naive to ignore.”

The rule remained in version 2 of the proposal.

Analysis of the Proposal

This is a brief analysis of each guideline in Peters’ proposal:

Disclaimer — Similar disclaimer language has been in use by most fan productions, including Axanar, at CBS’ insistence for many years.

Perks – The prohibition against Star Trek marks reflects the packaging practices Axanar has long used in its full line of merchandise; it does not address visual representations of Star Trek copyrighted elements either in the packaging or the actual physical merchandise, however, just the removal of the words “Star Trek.”

Crowdfunding Ban — This is arguably the most controversial plank in Peters’ proposal. Since wouldn’t likely be retroactive, it would leave Axanar with the hundreds of thousands of dollars it has left from three crowdfunding campaigns, while precluding other fan films from seeking such funding in the future.

Donations — This guideline would still allow productions to solicit direct donations without the reach offered by Kickstarter and Indiegogo. It would also preclude productions from paying their “principals,” a term not actually defined in Peters’ proposal. If it means producers or some other above-the-line employees, it would exclude the kind of payments Peters previously made to himself using donor funds, such as a $38,000 salary as producer, and $3,099 in dues and fees for Peters’ membership in the actors’ union, SAG-AFTRA.

Paying Cast and Crew — Axanar is not the only fan film that has paid professional actors and select crew members for working on its production. Peters has previously made the case that the high quality delivered in Prelude to Axanar and promised for Axanar is not possible without compensating professionals who contribute to the films.

Actors’ Union — In most respects, this guideline is superfluous. Under SAG-AFTRA’s Global Rule One, no actor who is a union member may work on any kind of film, television or Internet production that is not a signatory to its applicable agreements.

Running Times — It’s not clear what the implications of adhering to this 50-minute rule would be on the planned feature-length production of Axanar. Does proposing such a limit mean Axanar’s running time would be substantially cut? Or would Peters attempt to make an end run around his own rule by splitting Axanar up into multiple “episodes,” much as he proposed in the film’s most recent Indiegogo campaign?

Licensing — This guideline mirrors the status granted by LucasFilm to works submitted to its Star Wars fan films contest. Note, however, that apart from the five-minute entries in its contest, LucasFilms offers no guidelines for the larger body of fan works.

Court of Public Opinion

Peters’ guidelines are, of course, nothing more than a suggestion likely to be part of settlement negotiations with CBS and Paramount as they follow up on their statement that they were “also working on a set of fan film guidelines.”

That came on the heels of a surprise announcement by Star Trek producer J.J. Abrams and director Justin Lin at the Star Trek Beyond Fan Event on May 20 that the copyright infringement lawsuit against Axanar Productions and Peters was “going away” within weeks.

Bargaining Chip
It is likely that Peters believed he might hold a stronger bargaining position in settlement negotiations if his proposed guidelines carried the imprimatur of other prominent fan productions.

According to sources at those fan productions, corroborated by another source connected to CBS, all of whom spoke under condition of anonymity, Peters has not been successful at getting most of those productions to rally behind him.

Fan Film Mailing Lists
Even so, Peters appeared to believe that vocal public support like that which resulted in Abrams’ and Lin’s public intercession on Axanar’s behalf might further help him press his case in settlement negotiations.

To that end, he urged the fan producers he contacted, “But seriously, everyone has their mailing list, and we will be able to use that moving forward.”

What Happens Next?

Very little is publicly known about the process by which CBS and Paramount are drafting their fan film guidelines. Unanswered questions include:

Is this a formal part of the settlement negotiations?

Will a settlement be contingent upon Axanar’s agreeing to the guidelines?

How will the guidelines be enforced?

Are other fan productions being consulted as part of the process?

Which studio will take the lead in dealing with fan productions?

What are the ramifications on the guidelines drafting process of the possible splitting up of CBS and Paramount as joint plaintiffs?

What legal relationship would these guidelines create between the studio(s) and the fan productions? Would it be a formal license? Would a payment of some kind be required?Would fan producers instead cede their rights of ownership to CBS or Paramount in exchange for permission to produce their films?

So, THEY cause this huge mess, then THEY want to be the ones to set the rules? Give me a freaking break.

May 27, 2016 1:09 pm

Capt JW Amick

I was thinking the same thing. Seems odd.

May 27, 2016 1:45 pm

Gary 8.5

My favorite part was when Peters talked about being in regular contact with Paramount, BECAUSE THEY ARE SUING YOU! LOL!

May 27, 2016 1:56 pm

Adama

Just my thoughts

May 27, 2016 5:10 pm

Skippy2k

I was kind of thinking the same thing reading this… The Studio is making rules, let them make them and abide by them.

May 27, 2016 8:41 pm

Richard

Skippy2k I’ve been a supporter of Axanar but I have to agree. If the studio is sincere in dropping their lawsuit then it’s up to Axanar and the others to let them decide what they’re willing to live with.

June 6, 2016 7:36 pm

Tiberius

I’m not sure I agree that they caused this mess. It was the money they raised that caused this mess and if not them some other fan film would have been the target at some point.

May 28, 2016 1:26 pm

Jack2211

This is good reporting.

I still don’t think the amount of crowdfunding money was the problem. That’s just how it’s been spun.

And I also don’t know whether Patamount would have sued somebody else. They’ve let myriad productions exist until Axanar crossed the line by setting up a for-profit studio, among other things.

I wish it had gone to trial so all this had all come out. But PR-wise, dropping it is probably the smartest thing to do, since the press took off with the story that Paramount was afraid of Axanar because it had raised so much money.

Unsure what Peters’ game is here. Maybe he wants to end fan film crowdfunding so he can convince fans to donate to his future non-Trek, for-profit productions instead? (Sorry fans, Paramount/CBS won’t let you give us money for Trek on Kickstarter anymore, so why not support our amazing non-Trek stuff?)

Or, maybe he wants donations because it’s easier to hide the money raised than it is with kickstarting campaigns?

Why do people keep asserting this as if CBS & Paramount’s law firm doesn’t have a track record of doing just that: going after more than one fan project?

In the 1990s, using this exact same law firm, Paramount went after STAR TREK plays, plural. The first one they went after was a parody which is legal under fair use.

May 29, 2016 8:38 am

ST:EXP

This guy has lots of balls. “Here’s my proposed guidelines by which I have no right to even suggest….”

And then he outlines the rules to follow as every single one he’s broken so far.

Does everyone keep forgetting this is the dude who bankrupted his own movie props company owing people … and it’s quoted in many sources… “several hundreds of thousands of dollars”

May 27, 2016 1:45 pm

Capt JW Amick

I’m surprised more people don’t have the same uneasy feeling about Peters that I do. How he treats others is what led to me no longer being a fan of what he was trying to produce. You want to draw support, not push it away and he has done his best to alienate support for his battle against CBS/ Paramount.

May 27, 2016 1:52 pm

El Chup

I can assure you, there are plenty with that uneasy feeling. Whenever I look at the way he acts I have a mental picture of a con man working as a user car salesman who thinks he’s Enzo Ferrari.

Not quite the best public image to have IMO.

May 28, 2016 2:54 am

kmart

Most informed people have a terrible opinion of the guy, JW. The thing I can’t believe is how the AxaLemmings keep clinging to their illusions that he actually has anything going on that is in the least bit worthwhile and that doesn’t belong to other parties.

I think the 50 minute time limit is kinda odd. As a fan of fan films, I would hate for a compelling story I am emotionally invested in to be so short. I realize other fan productions of other franchises may have time limits, but limiting the amount of time can have the side effect of ruining a story by rushing the plot.

Anyways, just my opinion.

May 27, 2016 1:48 pm

Ted

Never been even close to being emotionally invested in a fan film and it certainly won’t start with crap like Peters is making

May 28, 2016 8:35 am

ThePhaige

Can you say SHEN AN EGG ANS…

May 27, 2016 1:49 pm

Harland

The guy is clearly suffering from some type of disorder. He is unsettling like a guy in my area who is also completely lacking any sense of self awareness. I wish he would just shut up and humble himself. So much ego.

May 27, 2016 1:59 pm

The Watcher

Yeah no one wants apart of this and have been VERY vocal about it since this all came out!

May 27, 2016 2:06 pm

SelorKiith

Damn… he has either balls of steel… or delusions of grandeur… and to top it off he personally “broke” every of his proposed rules!

May 27, 2016 2:25 pm

ST:EXP

There’s nothing wrong with any of this. Lobbyists from the NRA write legislation for congressional gun safety laws. Former oil executives sit on the EPA governance boards. Why shouldn’t the producer of Axanar write the rules for fan film productions? It’s just par for the course, folks.

May 27, 2016 2:27 pm

northstar

indeed, nothing wrong with trying. He may come of as arrogant because he is direct and knows what he wants – weel folks, that´s what a producer needs to do to get things done. At least he is doing something proactive. Of course CBS will set the rules in the end, but suggesting some does not hurt one bit. After all, Fan producers have been asking for guidelines for years – now that they get them they seem to not wanting them anymore.

May 27, 2016 2:34 pm

El Chup

There’s arrogant, and then there’s being rude, aggressive and petty.

May 28, 2016 2:56 am

Dan C

Well played, sir.

May 27, 2016 8:08 pm

Phil

Except he’s not the only producer of fan films, and he’s by no means the final arbiter of what those rules should be, Suggesting that Peters should be the guy writing the rules is like saying I should be making the rules for when my neighbor can use his pool.

With all due respect to Mr. Peters, he has a LOT OF GALL to start making rules under HIS guidelines, especially since HE was to one to practically RUIN IT for everyone else! I’m with Mr. James Cawley on this and not let Alec Peters dictate terms on how fan film productions should continue (especially since productions like Star Trek: New Voyages have already been doing QUITE WELL not rattling CBS/Paramount’s cage)!

May 27, 2016 2:36 pm

northstar

And of course Mr. Pedroza puts his own spin on hs “analysis”. As was pointed out, the Fundraising is not part of the submitted suggestions. It has been dropped after consulting with other producers. And even if it was, I doubt by now Axanar has more money available for producing then the recent 200+K that STC just got from crowdfunding, or the not so long ago Renegades funding. But nooooo, its Axanar that swims in money. I don´t believe one bit what Mr. Pedroza writes.

May 27, 2016 2:41 pm

Ahmed

@northstar,

Yeah, not surprised at all by that. You only need to read his comments on their anti-Axanar Facebook group & Trekbbs to see how “fair and balanced” he is!!

May 27, 2016 4:16 pm

My Two Cents

Well said, it’s difficult to try to talk to people who don’t care about the truth.

May 28, 2016 4:54 am

william

Let CBS/Paramount set the guidelines and NOT Alec Peters. No way.

May 27, 2016 2:52 pm

My Two Cents

CBS and Paramount will set the guidelines. Why are you opposed to Alec Peters and other fan film producers from trying to have some input to mitigate the restrictions that might be put in place? Makes no sense.

May 28, 2016 4:57 am

dswynne

Because they don’t own the property?

May 28, 2016 6:24 am

Prodigal Son

@ MTC

Huh? BECAUSE THEY DON’T OWN IT.

Duh!

May 28, 2016 12:47 pm

My Two Cents

So, because they don’t own Trek they should just let the owners run roughshod over the other fan films? You guys are just really hateful towards everyone!

May 28, 2016 4:12 pm

Prodigal Son

Yes, exactly. It’s Paramount’s legal property, and thus they get to call all the shots.

May 28, 2016 6:28 pm

My Two Cents

And other people with a vested interest have every right to try to influence those shots to benefit everyone! It is absolutely the right of everyone to try to influence others who are making decisions that will affect you! To sit back and take it would be asinine and irresponsible!

May 29, 2016 6:00 pm

Prodigal Son

Nope. They have an interest, but not a “vested interest.” Only the business which produces a product has a vested interest. This is why your argument keeps failing — you keep going with this quaint idea that fans own a piece of the franchise. We don’t. We are not vested business partners. Sorry.

vest·ed
ˈvestid/Submit
adjective
1.
secured in the possession of or assigned to a person.
“a state law vested the ownership of all wild birds to the individual counties”

May 30, 2016 1:01 pm

My Two Cents

You chose one of the definitions of “vested”. Here is another: “a person or group having a personal stake or involvement. Apology accepted.

May 30, 2016 5:31 pm

kmart

I have an interest in seeing a really nice print of the first trek movie. I guess I’m entitled to bore down with Dr Evil’s moonlaser into Paramount, then rapel inside to abscond with the movie, because I feel I have a personal involvement with the film. Honestly, My2cents, your views are not worth a wooden nickel. Only question is, are you a paid shill for Axanar or just another lemming who can’t deal with the truth about your emperor going out without remembering to slip on his drawers?

May 31, 2016 4:21 pm

My Two Cents

Hyperbole much kmart? The extent of your involvement with a Star Trek movie is the desire to watch one. Fan film producers have a much larger and more personal stake than that. The things you guys come up with, believing it justifies all the negativity, is absurd! But, like the religious, you won’t be reasoned with. You will spit out whatever sounds like what you already believe and leave it as fact. I look forward to seeing Axanar and other fan films in the future. Have fun being angry about stuff.

May 31, 2016 5:20 pm

kmart

twocents,
I’ve made several zero-budget amateur movies and pitched at TNG and had a feature script under consideration with Joel Silver’s company back when that meant something, all before I hit 30 years of age; even a quarter-century out from that, I probably have more bona fides as a filmmaker than most of the people in this thread or being talked about in the thread. The stakes here, believe it or not, are very high, about ethics and codes of behavior, which apparently don’t mean anything to you unless you get your FanFlickFix.

And quit trying to give religion a good name by comparing it to me, okay?

May 31, 2016 7:06 pm

Prodigal Son

Well said, kmart.

May 31, 2016 10:04 pm

Phil

This is a hoot. Lets see…..
You’ve pushed just about every other fan production under the bus to save your own @$$, and now you’re shocked, shocked I say, to learn that they don’t trust you?
You’ve pumped the crowd source well for about all the money you’re going to get out of it, funded your infrastructure, and now you’re proposing to cap those wells for other productions? You’re wondering why they don’t trust you?
I’ve wondered for a while now how you’ve managed to tap dance around labor agreement. Now that it’s something you’re looking to address, I’m wondering if the other shoe was about to fall, in terms of a labor action that might have gotten the Feds involved?
Yeah, misappropriation of funds is still speculation at this point. Still…..
Ultimately, it’s pretty arrogant for Mr. Peters to be carrying on as though C/P’s decision to drop the suit came from a position of strength on his end. At this point, Mr. Peters would still best be advised to shut up and sign off on the settlement, instead of pretending he has some leverage in all this.

May 27, 2016 3:04 pm

Lancelot Narayan

Totally agree. Unbelievable behaviour.

May 28, 2016 4:13 am

My Two Cents

Alec Peters has been nothing but supportive of all fan film productions!

May 28, 2016 4:58 am

Phil

@MTC….As evidenced by the overwhelming support the other fan film producers have demonstrated in his tireless efforts to support the fan film community. You’re free to believe what you want, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

May 28, 2016 7:51 am

Prodigal Son

@MTC

Stop using those Quaaludes. :-)

May 28, 2016 12:46 pm

Tiberius

I agree with you and all this hate is misplaced. People always mistrust the biggest fish in the sea. I really don’t think Mr. Peters is any different than any other fan film maker. Just more organized.

May 28, 2016 1:29 pm

My Two Cents

Very true Tiberius. Success always attracts angry, jealous people.

May 28, 2016 4:14 pm

Capo

If he was organized, all of the people who donated to the film would have received their Perks by now.

June 7, 2016 4:18 pm

Disinvited

CARLOS PEDRAZA,

Would you say that in light of this, Peters/Axanar’s countersuit makes sense as a tactic to give them something to bring to the table in negotiations over the guidelines?

Peters has a serious personality disorder. This guy is one of the most arrogant and insulting individuals in fandom. Having experienced his “warmth” personally, I can tell you that he treats donors just as poorly as he does everyone else. He has a huge problem with anyone being critical of him and he is both vindictive and petty. Kudos to James Crawley for avoiding having anything to do with Peters.

He isn’t the only one who has said er no thanks. STC & Renegades both said thanks but no thanks.

May 27, 2016 3:38 pm

quantum47

Garth of Izar syndrome?

May 29, 2016 8:15 am

trekfanmoviemake

#5 WRONG!!!! NOBODY should be paid for ANYTHING when doing a fan film. If anyone is being paid, the movie is no longer a fan film and reaches the category of an ‘independent film’. No matter the COST of the movie, one with a huge budget should stand equal to another that is shot in someone’s garage with his buddies on an iPhone. FAN FILM – made for and produced by fans (i.e. not taking on ‘professional’ procedures or policies to produce said film). It can look and sound like the real thing AS LONG AS nobody PROFITS from it. Crowdfunding to acquire assets (camera equipment, software, costumes, props) to make the film should be allowed since those aren’t profits, just a means to produce something that may or may not create a profit. These proposed rules just makes things complicated for anyone to make their own trek film; more simple guidelines would serve best.

May 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Lostrod

BTW – I just had the pleasure of watching the latest episode of Star Trek Continues (which plays by the rules) called “Come Not Between the Dragons”.

I found this episode to be perhaps the best episode so far. Very emotional and very true to the original series. I may very well be passing up on anything Axanar related because of the arrogant bs from Alec Peters.

I’ll support the fan productions that respect Star Trek.

May 27, 2016 3:42 pm

Tribble314

I don’t know anything about the plot of that one, but the title sounds pointed!

May 29, 2016 11:32 am

Prodigal Son

My God, the hubris of these folks. By comparison, Peters makes TUP, Cygnus, Rose and I look humble. ;-)

May 27, 2016 3:49 pm

Ahmed

“Crowdfunding Ban — This is arguably the most controversial plank in Peters’ proposal. Since wouldn’t likely be retroactive, it would leave Axanar with the hundreds of thousands of dollars it has left from three crowdfunding campaigns, while precluding other fan films from seeking such funding in the future.”

Again, Mr. Pedraza can’t stop himself from providing false analysis. He knows very well that this statement is inaccurate. “Star Trek Continues” raised over 200k from Indiegogo, they will get to keep that money as well.

“James Cawley, leader of the long-running and well known Star Trek: New Voyages”

Perhaps you should have added a little disclaimer that the author, Carlos Pedraza, worked as a writer & producer with the leader Cawley on Star Trek: New Voyages!

And why are fan productions so hung up on the crowdfunding? According to a previous Facebook post by James Cawley, “Fan films are supposed to be made by friends, with a common love of the material, and the sheer enjoyment of doing this incredible thing they love together.”, so they should be the ones calling for the end of crowdfunding.

May 27, 2016 4:09 pm

Cygnus-X1

All good points.

May 27, 2016 4:37 pm

wtriker1701

@Ahmed:
STC does have the 200k for producting more episodes, Axanar even more. And Axanar probably won’t even produce anything (besides havng completed SFX shots and a 3-minute Vulcan scene with Elves as stand-ins.

But the problem lies with other, new productions and FUTURE crowdfunding campaigns, as Mr. Pedraza correctly pointed out. His analysis is quite correct, your interpretation isn’t.

May 27, 2016 11:55 pm

Ahmed

@wtriker1701,

His analysis is wrong:

“Crowdfunding Ban — This is arguably the most controversial plank in Peters’ proposal. Since wouldn’t likely be retroactive, it would leave Axanar with the hundreds of thousands of dollars it has left from three crowdfunding campaigns, while precluding other fan films from seeking such funding in the future.”

He saying that retroactively, Axanar will gets to keep their money, making it sounds like they are the only one. He conveniently omits to mention that another major production, in this case STC, would also get to keep their hundreds of thousands of dollars raised from their last crowdfunding.

May 28, 2016 5:44 am

My Two Cents

Also, crowdfunding was NOT on the list of recommendations. So…there’s that.

May 28, 2016 5:02 am

Cygnus-X1

Mr. Pedraza, what say you to the points raised by Ahmed and others regarding your bias: Ahmed Today 4:09 pm

I would also point out that running an Axanar watchdog site called “Axamonitor” does not give the impression that you are objective and unbiased with regard to these issues.

May 27, 2016 4:42 pm

The_Grand_Nagus

It doesn’t matter if someone is biased as lond as what they say is FACTUALLY true. So if you think someone made a false statement, then state that. But if you can’t do that, then talk about bias is meaningless.

May 27, 2016 4:58 pm

Cygnus-X1

The_Grand_Nagus Today 4:58 pm

So if you think someone made a false statement, then state that.

We already did. Ahmed stated it and I concurred. It’s not about a particular statement being factually true, but rather Pedroza’s interpretation being faithful vs. misleading, objective vs. judgmental.

May 27, 2016 10:04 pm

Dandru

The factually untrue statements have already been pointed out in above comments.

May 27, 2016 10:11 pm

Ahmed

@The_Grand_Nagus, “It doesn’t matter if someone is biased as lond as what they say is FACTUALLY true.” Providing one side of the story or omitting relevant info is not being FACTUALLY TRUE! Axamonitor is not a news site, it is a blog dictated to a lawsuit between Axanar and CBS/Paramount. The analysis of information related to the lawsuit is the main core of that blog. The Judge denying Axanar their motion to dismiss is an objective fact, the interpretation of that decision is subjective. And the analysis of this court case is done by someone who is NOT an intellectual property lawyer, let alone a lawyer by profession. Not to mention that he is someone who was involved with another active fan production. Just look at this very article where he omits to mention that not just Axanar gets to keep their funding but also STC. Or the part about Axanar merchandise, neglecting to mention that another fan production, Star Trek Renegades is doing precisely the same thing, having a full line of merchandise from DVD, Blu Ray, books to Starfleet Phaser, Tricorder ..etc http://startrekrenegades.com/home/donate/ And apparently Mr Pedraza was in rush to “expose” the summit, that he forget to get double check some info regarding the other fan productions, like his claim “Starbase Studios (who produces several small Star Trek fan films)”. The Starbase Studio stated yesterday that they only produce one fan film, they are not producing “several small Star Trek fan films” as Mr Pedraza claimed. Anyone… Read more »

May 28, 2016 6:03 am

Jack2211

Hear, hear.

May 29, 2016 1:06 am

Son of Jello

It sound’s like Peters wants to ride in on a white horse and save everyone. But does not realize he’s the one who they need to be saved from. I’m sure in his head he’s the hero of this situation and everyone is just being stubborn by not following him into the light.

May 27, 2016 4:50 pm

My Two Cents

I hope to be able to visit you in Bizarro World some day.

May 28, 2016 5:04 am

Cygnus-X1

Regarding the proposed guidelines—side-stepping the crowdfunding restriction, which has been removed from the most current proposal—the time-limit provision isn’t great, but if fan productions are allowed to release their shows in multiple parts, then it’s not that big of a deal.

The one that puts me off is #8. If fan productions are forbidden from earning profit from their shows, then it’s outrageous that CBS should be allowed to earn profit from them without any remittance whatsoever to the fan productions that worked so hard, contributing their time, labor and physical capital to their productions. I don’t care who owns the damned copyrights. The notion of setting up a system whereby fan productions are essentially acting as unpaid labor for CBS is patently immoral and offensive on its face. Number 8 should be revised to give CBS the option of licensing fan production content for a flat rate fee that is reasonably arrived at and prescribed. It wouldn’t be as high a fee as a professional production company (like Bad Robot) commands, but it would be at least a respectable remittance to workers for their labor and work product. It would still be “a steal” for CBS, but not literally slavery.

May 27, 2016 4:55 pm

Phil

You’ve passed a few brain farts here over the years, but this one is just off the charts. You may not care who owns the IP rights, but ownership does. C/P is under no obligation to license/option, or to be compelled to grant such to any individual who just happens to feel like using someone elses’ IP. Fan productions are, under absolutely no circumstances whatsoever, being forced or compelled to act as unpaid labor for C/P. They freely choose to pursue this endeavor, which completely invalidates your claim to ownership being immoral and offensive. Further, and I doubt you thought this through in your rush to attack C/P, if C/P were inclined to actually license/franchise their IP rights, then that gives them full and complete control. Everything you despise about the Paramount/Bad Robot relationship would be forced on these amateur production houses, which used to have much more creative control until Axanar came along. All you are doing is conflating the amateur production houses with the professional ones, and there’s scant evidence to support that argument.

May 27, 2016 5:20 pm

Cygnus-X1

Wrong.

I never said that CBS was under any “obligation” to license anything.

But, if the find content good enough to license, then it’s only right for them to kick down a nominal recompense for it. If the fan productions are playing by the rules, there’s no good reason why they shouldn’t be minimally compensated for what is typically a substantial investment, not only of time and labor, but also of physical capital.

If it’s good enough for CBS to license, then it’s good enough for them to pay a scrap for.

May 27, 2016 9:59 pm

Cygnus-X1

Phil Today 5:20 pm And regarding your argument of our hypothetically exploited fan productions have “freely chosen to pursue” their endeavor, did the Indonesian Nike sweatshop workers not “freely choose” to work for slave wages under appalling work conditions? Did the Chinese Wal Mart workers who literally live in the back of the store because they don’t earn enough money to pay for housing not “freely choose” to work for those wages? Nobody put a gun to these peoples’ heads, right? So, who cares? People of conscience care. And you’re missing an important economic point as well as an important PR point. Professional producers get paid for their work. That CBS might have the power to use fan-produced content in the same manner and for the same purposes as they use contractually produced content, without having to pay the fan-producers anything, does not make it a moral or fair thing to do. Corporations often behave in ways that are immoral but legal. What I’m advising is that Peters and the other fan productions not willingly endorse or consent to such behavior. Again, I’m advocating minimal recompense, should CBS decide to license fan-produced content. For example, if they see a $20M profit from licensing the content of a fan production that cost $50k to produce, why not simply kick back the $50k cost of the production to the people who produced it? That would leave CBS with $19,950,000 in profit for an initial investment of zero dollars. That’d be a steal… Read more »

May 27, 2016 10:36 pm

Keachick

Cygnus wrote: “And regarding your argument of our hypothetically exploited fan productions have “freely chosen to pursue” their endeavor, did the Indonesian Nike sweatshop workers not “freely choose” to work for slave wages under appalling work conditions? Did the Chinese Wal Mart workers who literally live in the back of the store because they don’t earn enough money to pay for housing not “freely choose” to work for those wages? Nobody put a gun to these peoples’ heads, right? So, who cares?” Are you serious? How can you possibly compare the two situations? Those people who work in sweatshops etc do so in order to survive the best way they know how, given their circumstances. Certainly labour laws need to change but that is not the point of this post. People also work for pay in offices and factories in our first world so they can pay for housing, food, clothing, education, health etc. It is NOT amateur/hobby hour! However, what fans do (in making films about Star Trek) is an interest, a HOBBY, expensive though it may be. Other fans may help those making these films with the costs involved, but it is still a hobby. Perhaps, if a fan makes a film that Paramount/CBS likes, then the studio should compensate the fan in some fair and legitimate way, if they wish to use the film to profit by it. That is a separate issue. But to compare engaging in an expensive HOBBY BY CHOICE with what most people… Read more »

May 28, 2016 10:53 pm

Cygnus-X1

Phil Today 5:20 pm

Phil, remember we’re talking about the proposed guidelines here. I expressed an opinion regarding the fairness of one of the proposals. What I said has nothing to do with IP law. Whether or not CBS can find a way to lawfully exploit fan productions without paying the producers a cent for them is beside the point. I’m talking about fairness in the proposed settlement agreement.

May 27, 2016 10:08 pm

Dandru

Phil, you’re misunderstanding what he’s saying.

May 27, 2016 10:12 pm

Phil

Sorry, Cyg, but your entire premise is wrong, and no amount of chest thumping in faux moral outrage doesn’t change that. As a matter of fact, assuming what you’ve described is factual and is exactly how you’ve laid it out, your outrage should be aimed squarely at Mr. Peters, for committing time, talent, and labor in an undertaking where he had no contractual agreement to proceed.

May 28, 2016 6:21 pm

Cygnus-X1

Phil Today 6:21 pm

Phil, I’m trying to be nice to you, but your repeated ad hominem remarks are inappropriate, irrational, and uncalled for. If you see an error in my rationale, then go ahead and make your argument.

May 28, 2016 11:08 pm

Jack2211

If there’s still a comments filter, it should really be set to catch anything with the phrase ad hominem. Just to make the Internet even slightly less ridiculous.

May 29, 2016 1:36 am

Cygnus-X1

Jack2211 Today 1:36 am

What does that even mean? Are you just being a troll?

Ad hominem means making comments about, or arguing about, the person rather than the issue. If you have a valid, strong, persuasive argument, you don’t need to make comments about the other person. Unprovoked ad hominem remarks are typically indicative of frustration and an inability to organize one’s thoughts and/or express a cogent argument.

May 29, 2016 2:06 am

Phil

@ Cyg. You didn’t make an ‘error’, your entire premise is pretty much a fantasy, as demonstrated that C/P pretty routinely licenses Trek. Just because you ‘don’t care who owns the damn copyrights’ doesn’t change that fact. Neither does trying to whip up a big ole frothy head of faux moral outrage lend any validity to your faulty premise. If you believe that to be an ad hominem attack, that’s on you, not me. This doesn’t even rise to the level of debate, when you’re pretty much just making stuff up. End of story, amigo.

May 29, 2016 3:05 pm

Cygnus-X1

Phil Today 3:05 pm

You seem very confused. I don’t know what “premise” you’re saying is fantastical.

Or, why you insist on impugning my motives without cause.

Or, what you think I’m “making up.”

Or, what you could possibly have to be angry about pertaining to my opinion about the guidelines.

May 29, 2016 5:59 pm

Phil

Cyg, stop. I told you the problem, and supported the argument, which you promptly dismissed. If you’re having trouble understanding that, it comes down to the fact that C/P grants licenses for Trek frequently. Don’t take my word for it, go over to Amazon and search it. Hell, just look at the latest post here. Swimwear. A licensed product. Your premise is incorrect, your faux outrage in support of your incorrect premise is just fiction. I’ve not discussed your motives at all, few outside of your circle of friends even care. There’s no anger here, except for whatever you’re feeling about someone pointing out a flaw in your opinion. As far as what you’re making up, well, that’s obvious….except to you, apparently. As you don’t seem inclined to reread what you wrote, we’re done here. Cheers.

May 29, 2016 9:52 pm

Cygnus-X1

Phil May 29, 2016 9:52 pm

I told you the problem, and supported the argument, which you promptly dismissed. If you’re having trouble understanding that, it comes down to the fact that C/P grants licenses for Trek frequently. Don’t take my word for it, go over to Amazon and search it.

What you’re saying here has nothing to do with my original comment.

Your premise is incorrect

Again, what premise?

your faux outrage in support of your incorrect premise is just fiction. I’ve not discussed your motives at all,

Your repeatedly accusing me of fake outrage is impugning my motives. You’re claiming, without evidence, that I am not sincere in my opinion and must therefore have some other motive behind it.

May 30, 2016 12:09 pm

Phil

Yes, it does. Why you’re being dense is perplexing. CBS grants licenses now, rendering your objection to the profit motive meaningless. All your pontificating doesn’t change that fact. I’m not sure why you find that hard to understand, beyond not giving a damn about who owns the copyrights.

I didn’t object to the general concept of profit motive. In fact, I proposed a hypothetical licensing deal that would be massively profitable for CBS.

You appear to have absolutely no understanding of what I said.

May 31, 2016 6:01 pm

Olsen

Whats with the all the negativity and slander in the comments here?
Alec Peters made a great Star Trek fanfilm. He got sued by Paramount on “mondern day copyright law” and stood his ground. He was the only one to tell CBS/Paramount that they can not treat fans and creative people like shit.

It does not matter if you like him personally or think he is a nice guy. Alec Peters did a very brave thing by standing up to a big corporation that uses money and power to absolutely control a 50 year old TV-franchise.

I personally thank Mr Peters for what he has done. I hope the money I donated helped.

I have read Axamonitor and some of their Anti-Axanar Facebook group posts, I think the way they behave is a disgrace to the Star Trek community. I don’t know why they are allowed to post articles here.

May 27, 2016 5:00 pm

kmart

based on that post olsen, I don’t know why you’re allowed to post here. Isn’t there a threshold on suckers who don’t learn the ‘fool me once, shame on you/fool me twice, shame on me?’

May 27, 2016 5:07 pm

Lawrence Boucher

“Alec Peters made a great Star Trek fanfilm.”
– I wasn’t aware that ‘Axanar’ had been completed…

“Alec Peters did a very brave thing by standing up to a big corporation that uses money and power to absolutely control a 50 year old TV-franchise.”
– So, CBS and Paramount, the IP owners of ‘Star Trek’ aren’t allowed to control the TV/Film franchise they legally own the rights to? How is it brave to stand on the backs of others’ work to make a quick buck from branded coffee, models and even construct a for-profit studio?

“I personally thank Mr Peters for what he has done. I hope the money I donated helped.”
– What has your donation helped? There is no finished ‘Axanar’ film and almost certainly never will be.

“I have read Axamonitor and some of their Anti-Axanar Facebook group posts, I think the way they behave is a disgrace to the Star Trek community.”
– You know what I think is a disgrace to the Star Trek community? “Fans” who scam other fans by taking advantage of their love of the franchise. Even worse? The fans who turn a blind eye to it or refuse to speak out based on some irrational hatred of CBS/Paramount.

Ask yourself, why is it only one fan film got sued? It has nothing to do with it being superior in quality to other fan films or official films (because it isn’t).

May 27, 2016 6:29 pm

My Two Cents

I’m with you, Olsen. Alec Peters has only done good things for Trek and Trek fandom. He has attempted for years to get some studio rules in place so that the creatives behind fan films don’t have to worry about what the can and cannot do. He made a great short Trek fan film and is likely to be able to make a great fan film if the corporate rules aren’t too restrictive. He, with other fan film producers, have come up with some ideas for the guidline. CBS / Paramount may ignore the completely or not. At least he had the courage to stand up to the big guy and try to assert some sort of influence over the events. He didn’t simply fold when threatened and that takes courage.
Whether he is successful or not, I applaud his efforts and wish there were more fans like him. Of course, I hope he does get to make his movie. Even if it is in 50 minute or shorter installments. 50 minutes, by the way, is longer than an episode on television.
I think that it is simply easier to be negative. It makes people feel superior to others when they belittle them.

May 27, 2016 7:28 pm

dswynne

Peters hasn’t done anything to fan films. These other productions have been around for years, before Axanar came unto the scene.

May 28, 2016 6:20 am

Jack2211

He is also extraordinarily good-looking, of superior intellect, has never had bad breath and often gives free Axanar coffee to widows and orphans.

May 29, 2016 1:10 am

kmart

Are we SURE there aren’t duals registered here? I keep getting the same hot air from different posters.

May 31, 2016 4:51 pm

Dan C

Paramount hasn’t treated fans ‘like shit’. New Voyages, Continues, Starship Farragut, Renegades, Of Gods and Men and many, many others were produced and released to fans with absolutely no pushback or interference from CBS / Paramount. Their copyrights and their intellectual property but they looked the other way for years until Peters started racking up some serious cash and went a step too far with his efforts.

Justin Lin and JJ Abrams weren’t coming to Peters’ defense, they were coming the defense of other fan productions which have been operating for years.

Peters wasn’t brave. He was arrogant.

May 27, 2016 8:27 pm

Ahmed

@Dan C,

“Justin Lin and JJ Abrams weren’t coming to Peters’ defense, they were coming the defense of other fan productions which have been operating for years. ”

Delusional much? Guess it was too shocking for you guys when Abrams made his announcement about the Axanar lawsuit. LOL

May 28, 2016 6:22 am

Finnegan

Put down the bong! Really? You don’t have a clue about IP or copyrights do you? Your ignorance is exactly what Peters and his Axanar cartel are counting on. I regret I donated money to that film-flam man.

May 27, 2016 8:44 pm

Dandru

Alec Peters is a dishonest, arrogant jerk who pocketed more than $40,000 of funds donated for film production. His douchbaggery very nearly killed fan films for everyone.

May 27, 2016 10:14 pm

Dandru

And it’s absolutely absurd to say CBS/Paramount have treated fans and creative people like shit. That is not REMOTELY true–it’s the kind of thing only a drama queen with no real knowledge of the situation would say.

May 27, 2016 10:16 pm

Corbetto

So this guy slips on The One Ring, the eye of Sauron whips around, and then he says ” I have an idea. Here’s the things nobody should do: 1. Put on the ring…”

Yeah; if I ran a fan film production, I’d thank him for potentially screwing us over and then tell him to take a hike.

Renegades, STC, NV, Starship Valiant, Starship: Intrepid and Starbase Studios have all said they want no part in this, they have either made comments on FB or elsewhere saying Yes they were asked but NO they were not involved and want no part of it.
so make of that what you will.
Edit 1: Star Trek Potemkin have added their voice to this list of non backers to this, and have publicly stating they do not back Axanar.
Edit 2: Star Trek Phoenix REJECTS! the proposed guidelines and will make a statement Tuesday!

May 27, 2016 6:30 pm

Ahmed

@The Watcher,

“Star Trek Potemkin” & “Star Trek Phoenix” were not invited to the discussion, their “rejection” is irrelevant.

May 27, 2016 7:06 pm

Prodigal Son

Acordring to you, I guess? Really?

How is it you get to be the one who tells fan productions’ opinions that they are irrelevant?

For me, because Peters didn’t invite them, I am actually more interested in their opinions than the ones that Peters “invited to the discussions.”

Peters and you do not get to dictate which fan productions’ opinion are relevant and which are not. This is not China.

May 28, 2016 6:22 pm

Prodigal Son

@ The Watcher

Thanks for adding those two additions to the Peter’s rejections to date. I think most fans were interested to hear from those two fan productions.

May 29, 2016 10:07 pm

Kay

How do we know that CBS/Paramount didn’t ask them for their input into the guidelines and they in turn asked for input from other fan films?

May 27, 2016 6:51 pm

Dan C

Peters has exhausted any goodwill he had with fans and with CBS / Paramount. This man should not be the face of fan films efforts. He’s poisoned the well.

May 27, 2016 8:05 pm

My Two Cents

??
It seems you aren’t paying attention to the reality of the situation. He has the goodwill of at least two pretty important fans in JJ Abrams and Justin Lin. They have kindly convinced CBS / Paramount to adopt guidelines that have been needed for years! He also has the goodwill of around 10,000 fans! Someone had to step up and be the face of fan films and thankfully it’s someone with a backbone! There is an extremely small group of faux outraged whiners who stroke each other’s ego by teaming up trashing quality people who have attained a level of success that makes them jealous.

May 28, 2016 5:15 am

dswynne

First, Peters is the one who stepped out of bounds by making moves that seemed like he would PROFIT from ‘Trek, secondly, it was Lin, not JJ, who defended Peters, and, third, because of Peters, CBS/Paramount will have to set up specific guidelines from this point forward. In other words, NONE of this would have happened if he followed the model set by Cawley in the first place. So, yeah, thanks, Peters! You “really” did a “swell” job!

May 28, 2016 6:17 am

Dandru

My Two Cents = Peters

That is undebatable.

May 28, 2016 1:56 pm

Prodigal Son

@Dandru. I was thinking the same thing. I think he may be Peters.

May 28, 2016 2:39 pm

My Two Cents

Nope, not Peters. Just a fan of Axanar and fair play. I also like to point out ignorance when I have the time. But, thanks for thinking I’m as well spoken as he!

May 28, 2016 4:17 pm

Biggles

Peters is not well spoken. He comes off as a prat, actually.

May 30, 2016 8:33 pm

kmart

He’d’ve been swearing about banning us by now, also threatening to kick our backsides because we’re spineless and not true fans.

May 28, 2016 5:52 pm

Jack2211

The Axanar folks tend to insist that anyone who disagrees with them is part of a tiny, tiny, minuscule, very small group – and that we all collude (and are possibly paid by CBS/Paramount to do so).

(because who could come up with an opinion that Peters is a shyster on his or her own, right?)

In other words: don’t believe the naysayers, they’re a minority!

May 29, 2016 1:27 am

Alec Grimes

You got to give it up to peters. He really has that Klinger spirit in him. He really have a lot of balls. I mean, the studios are setting the rules, and he’s coming up with his own. I kind of admire him for it. But he shouldn’t push his luck.

May 27, 2016 9:01 pm

Olsen

He does have the balls of Kahless but why shouldn’t he push his luck? Even though Paramount might have the power with copryright law to shut down Axanar, he is morally in the right in my opinion. He received donations from thousands of fans to make a Star Trek Fan FIlm. How he does it, I don’t care. How much money the actors or he personally gets I don’t care. I donated for a Fan Film and as long as I get that I will be content.

Alec Peters has the moral obligation to do everything in his power to realize Axanar. I think he is doing an extraordinary job. I don’t think that a lot of people would have conitued after being sued by Paramount. Mr Peters shoud be an example for every fan film maker in the world.

May 29, 2016 3:09 pm

tronic307

So the lawsuit is dropped but that’s not enough. Why doesn’t Alec Peters just leave well enough alone?

May 27, 2016 11:46 pm

Dandru

Because he’s incredibly full of himself and thinks he matters a whole lot more than he does. Plus, Prelude to Axanar wasn’t nearly as good as he seems to think it was.

May 28, 2016 1:56 pm

Jack2211

And cue the comments that awards commitees and 10,000 fans can’t be wrong and it’s just sad that you didn’t understand Prelude in 5, 4, 3…

May 29, 2016 1:15 am

Olsen

Maybe because he does what he thinks is right? Why should he not propose rules for fan films? I would say he fucked up if he had not recommended a ruleset.

May 29, 2016 3:12 pm

Smike

Illusions of grandure! That’s a ridiculous move at attention-seeking of the worst kind. First, let’s break each and every copyright rule there is and then, let’s make up a list of rules everybody has to live up to – half of which should be taken for granted in the first place! But no, it’s HIS set of rules, so he can sleep well again. The law or CBS – who is gonna need them – I, Alec Peters, will bring the entire Federation of Fanfilms back to the negotiation table. I’m starting to wonder whether this guy actually is Garth of Izar in person. 1 – Disclaimer. Old news and a matter of course. 2 – Perks. It was you that started this system of merchandise to be given away to “donors” – aka pre-paying customers! 3 – Crowdfunding! Cool. Let’s do away with it and return to the state of pre-New Voyages garage-based productions. 4 – Other donation welcome? Why? Where is the logic in that? Why prohibiting crowdfunding but accept other donations then? It’s basically the same, isn’t it? At least it would be if you didn’t use crowdfunding as a sales platform for merchandise! 5 + 6 – C’mon! Handle it at will but IMO veteran guest actors should do it for the sake of it. Otherwise it stops being a fan film and turns into a low-budget production aka The Asylum. 7 – Running time? Point being? Why would you want to tell people to stick… Read more »

May 28, 2016 12:03 am

AJinMoscow

James Cawley has his own relationships with TPTB, and he and his colleagues have been doing just fine for years since before the “Axanar” boys came around and mucked it all up. “Axanar” has sucked more than their share of the energy out of the 50th Anniversary of Trek at this point, and it would be nice if they just faded away like gentlemen, in all honesty. Tainted…damaged goods, whatever you want to call it, please leave us all alone.

May 28, 2016 1:31 am

Lancelot Narayan

Anybody else remember Dan Ackroyd in ‘Grosse Point Blank’? Who the hell does this guy think he is? I KNEW that something like this would happen.

May 28, 2016 4:12 am

Tim

Shakes head…. Sigh. Some people never learn. Peter’s is living up to his predictable nature again.

Good on James Cawley for telling Peter’s where to go :)

May 28, 2016 5:01 am

Al Jalaikakik

What’s even funnier is the people coming in here to shill for Peters. At least one probably IS him. He tried to pull down all of fan production, destroy what everyone ELSE created, in a smokescreen to save his ass in this lawsuit. Glad no one is buying his crap.

I hope they band together to sue him for damages.

May 28, 2016 5:39 am

Dandru

Yeah, other than one or two people here, it’s pretty clear that everyone sees Peters for the conman that he is. No one’s buying it. He destroyed his reputation and nearly ruined the fan film genre for everyone.

May 28, 2016 1:54 pm

Olsen

Wow, talk about slandering a person in website comments. Shame

May 29, 2016 3:16 pm

Biggles

Since slander involves spoken words… no. You’re thinking of libel–and no one here has said anything libelous. You need to look up the meanings of both words.

May 30, 2016 8:34 pm

Ahmed

Half of this article is based on the blog post “Forging Fan Film Guidelines,” on Hubcap Dave blog, and yet Pedraza did not provide an active link to that blog! He has no problem providing links to James Cawley Facebook post, or the rumors filled blog post by Hinman.

“What are the ramifications on the guidelines drafting process of the possible splitting up of CBS and Paramount as joint plaintiffs?”

There is no splitting up, this is based on Hinman’s blog from his “unnamed sources!”, the guy himself admitted on your Facebook group that “No one has confirmed this. It’s rumor.”

This is the same guy that were told by his “sources” back in April that the new Trek series is set in the prime universe Post-Nemesis & then last week, his “sources” said, actually it is going to be in the NuTrek timeline!

May 28, 2016 6:19 am

Kevin Palm

Why in the world is Peters still allowed to have ANYTHING to do with fan films?

I’m sure it’s no coincidence that #3 is included….were CBS to agree, it would leave Axanar the most successful crowd funded fan production in history…permanently. A fact, no doubt, not lost on Peters.

No surprise about the insults to Cawley. Wouldn’t be the first time Peters insulted someone he disagreed with or who disagreed with him. I, too, have been the recipient of some of his colorful metaphors after simply asking a couple of questions regarding the funding of Axanar. Peters seems emotionally insecure & a rather immature individual.

May 28, 2016 7:47 am

Jack2211

It’s interesting that they wanted to axe crowdfunding but allow donations.

May 29, 2016 1:31 am

Ahmed

A comment from ‘Star Trek: Intrepid’ producer Nick Cook on Trekbbs:

=============================

For what it’s worth, I’ve read the proposed guidelines and shared my thoughts with Alec. I won’t share private discussion, but I will say that I stated again that I’m highly doubtful the studio has any interest in anything we have to say on the matter.
I’ve never felt we needed guidelines simply because there’s never been any doubt in my mind that CBS/Paramount own Star Trek and we play in that sandbox at their grace. I expect any guidelines will come from them with zero input from any of us. That said, I still don’t mind sharing my thoughts, or people knowing I’ve done so. I just don’t want anyone misinterpreting that.

I’d like to add, that Alec was consistently gracious with me, and didn’t object to anything I was saying.

I’m also going to stick my neck out here and say I absolutely believe that there needs to be limits set on crowdfunding, assuming it’s not gone completely (though I imagine it is). Want to crowdfund your own product, have at it. Want to use somebody else’s IP? You do it on our terms or not at all. I believe that quite strongly, though obviously I respect that there are others who feel differently.

May 28, 2016 7:58 am

Phil

Mr. Cook seems to have a better grasp of the situation.

May 28, 2016 5:41 pm

dmduncan

I agree. CBS/Paramount is going to do what they’re going to do. Unless Peters overplays his already weak hand and makes things worse.

May 28, 2016 8:15 pm

Olsen

As the lawsuit has shown Paramount don’t even know themselves what say own in copyright and what they don’t. (Klingon language, Pointy ears,…) Why is Mr. Cook so sure that they own everything Star Trek? If there has been one mistake in the continuuity of the handling of the copyright Star Trek might be public domain now.

I am not saying thats the case but don’t make free gifts to giant coprorations that they might not even deserve. Giving your freedom away on a silver platter is a bad idea.

May 29, 2016 3:25 pm

dmduncan

Lol. Another red flag. The arrogance of this clown to even think of setting creative and fundraising limits for others.

If I was a fan producer, I would ignore Peters entirely and wait for the official guide; and if I felt it was overly restrictive — AFTER I READ THE THING — then I would try to lobby people like Lin and JJ to argue on behalf of fan films for more options.

The length restriction is bizarre. What was the promised length of Axanar that Peters used to raise money? Will his proposed 50 minute limit to ALL fan films also reduce the length (and therefore the COST) of Axanar that he originally promised?

May 28, 2016 3:01 pm

northstar

Lobbying AFTER the guidelines are done is pointless – do you really think CBS and Paramount would go over that whole process AGAIN? NOW is the time to try to have some input, if at all. I don´t care if it is Peters or if it is any other of the fan producers, but they should be proactive now and not behave like lambs. It is at least worth a try – but if you do nothing you have nothing to complain about later, as guidelines was what the community was asking for for over 10 years.

There is probably a good reason for the 50 minute limit, although I would hate to see that realized. But if you think about it – Axanar was to be a full length movie, as the next Horizon would have been. And Paramount was rumoured to be the force behind the lawsuit. So I guess this is to address Paramounts concern for fan “movies”.

May 28, 2016 4:36 pm

dmduncan

Nah, nothing is set in stone. There will always be opportunities to push for more. And being too aggressive tends to trigger the opposite reaction.

And what is the “good reason” for the 50 minute time limit? That’s absurd. I don’t want to see anybody — including fans — twitterizing their creativity to fit in an arbitrary time limit, especially since the internet, as a distribution channel, lets fans make running length whatever they want.

I want to know the reasoning behind that arbitrary time limit. And why on EARTH would he propose eliminating crowdfunding sites to raise money? Hahaha.

Peters is doing a good impression of Garth. In his loony phase.

May 28, 2016 7:40 pm

Phil

Peters is spinning this list to lock in his position, including that of positioning himself to lock out potential competitors in fan productions – particularly as the internet continues to loom as a distribution channel. I suspect the other fan producers saw through this immediately, which is why they are telling him to take a hike.

May 28, 2016 5:39 pm

dmduncan

Yeah it does sound like he would like to keep other people from entering the market via crowdfunding sites by proposing a ban to crowdfunding…while he solicits funds from a mailing list of donors that he built using Kickstarter and Indiegogo.

May 28, 2016 8:05 pm

Jack2211

Wow. And it seems they’ve been taking donations on their site through all this.

May 29, 2016 1:18 am

Ahmed

@dmduncan,

You mean like Vic Mignogna of ‘Star Trek Continues’ who received over $150,000 from private donations after his recent crowdfunding campaign failed to reach it $350,000 goal.

May 29, 2016 7:33 am

dmduncan

And who were all the private donors? Are you saying none came from connections he made with his crowdfunding project but OUTSIDE the actual campaign? And even if he did, that’s just one case for one guy’s project, and it doesn’t disprove the value of crowdfunding as a NETWORKING/database building tool.

And why on earth would someone be trying to deny new entrants into the field by closing off valuable funding and networking resources like Kickstarter and Indiegogo which in some cases might be the ONLY ones they will have, and which could make the difference between success and failure?

I can understand why CBS/Paramount would make such a rule, but why would Peters suggest it?

May 29, 2016 9:16 am

dmduncan

Closing off funding options when more = better, makes no sense to me.

May 29, 2016 9:28 am

Cygnus-X1

dmduncan May 29, 2016 9:16 am

Isn’t it fair to assume that fan productions which have been up and running longer than AXANAR would have their own donor networking systems in place—email lists, etc…?

May 30, 2016 12:02 pm

Olsen

Slandering Mr Peters and calling him names is a wonderful move. I am ashamed to be in the same community as you.

May 29, 2016 3:28 pm

dmduncan

I’m devastated.

May 29, 2016 4:17 pm

kmart

Then feel free to leave, please! Also, it ain’t slander if its true.

May 31, 2016 4:49 pm

Eric T.

Seems to me it could be *much* simpler for everyone, but necessarily stacked in Paramount/CBS’s favor. (1) Fan films are okay. (2) Producers thereof cannot make a profit on them. (3) Distribution will be exclusively through CBS All Access with a required purchase of a licensed Trek resulting in a code to be used to watch a fan film, or with a direct purchase of said fan film.

Fans can make them. CBS can profit. Carry on.

May 28, 2016 6:49 pm

Olsen

Thats a good idea. In essence fan films a free promotions. Paramount should use that resource to their advantage instead of fighting against it.

May 29, 2016 3:30 pm

I Khan Believe It An\'t Butter

If Alec Peters wants to make demands, maybe he should created his own franchise. This way he’;ll have total control.

Sorry but Star Trek is NOT his property and has no claim on any of it.

May 29, 2016 6:59 am

Disinvited

I Khan Believe It An\’t Butter,

This supposed logic doesn’t get you very far when applied likewise to Paramount. You are aware that Paramount did not create “STAR TREK” but rather was forced to “inherit” it by Bludhorn, who acquired the financially distressed studio, via Desilu which he likewise acquired and was the actual corporation that footed all of STAR TREK’s hospital bills, so to speak?

May 29, 2016 9:21 am

I Khan Believe It An\'t Butter

Sorry to pop your bubble Disinvited, but no who created what, where and when and who inherited Star Trek in the end from a Gene Roddenberry’s creation, OK’d by Desilu, purchased by Gulf Western and Paramount, now divided and jointly owned by Paramount and CBS, Alec Peter’s has no claim or rights to make demands for his own purpose or advantage or any one else, he simply does not own the Star Trek brand, franchise, history, music, etc. etc. no matter what flavor the cheese cake is and how you slice it, the simply and only truth there be, it’s not his to do as he pleases.

If Peters wants that power of control of demands, he has to go out and create his own franchise.

May 30, 2016 2:13 pm

Olsen

The only one that had any claim to Star Trek was Gene Roddenberry. Paramount is just milking the franchise by using their exclusive publishing rights.

May 29, 2016 3:33 pm

I Khan Believe It An\'t Butter

All rivers of tears can potentially form a lake to drown in.
Neither you, I or any cross section of fanatical fans will ever change that.

May 30, 2016 2:16 pm

dmduncan

My advice to Peters is to stay out of the fan site news feed for as long as possible until all this is over. Lay low. Be quiet. Don’t unnecessarily become the focus of some new shady sounding or looking thing that fans are not going to like.

May 29, 2016 9:19 am

Phil

Well, if this ‘list’ is any indication….too late.

May 29, 2016 1:53 pm

dmduncan

One can always hope this is the last time, but…I hoped that last time too, so…

May 29, 2016 4:18 pm

Phil

Maybe next time….

May 29, 2016 5:15 pm

Cygnus-X1

dmduncan Today 9:19 am

Good advice.

Though, people do have a point when they say that the time for rallying fellow fan productions is now, before the guidelines are handed down from on high. Not that CBS is necessarily interested in any suggestions, but they’re more likely to be interested now than after they’ve handed down the guidelines.

So, I guess my advice to Alec Peters would be: try and make amends with all of the fan productions that you’ve offended. If anything is going to help any of the fan productions to get guidelines that don’t hamstring their efforts and poke a hole in their dreams, it’s going to be hanging together. You’re all stronger as confederates than as bitter adversaries.

May 29, 2016 5:52 pm

Ahmed

@Cygnus-X1,

Not sure how closely you follow the behind the scenes stuff that happen at the fan productions, but the major players in the filed just don’t like one another. There is no love lost between James Cawley & Vic Mignogna and between Mignogna & the Farragut team! And now between all of them and Peters.

Here is just one example from 2014 of the drama within the fan production:

Speaking of James Cawley, he is apparently shutting down his ‘Star Trek: New Voyages’ production for good!

May 29, 2016 6:31 pm

Cygnus-X1

Ahmed Today 6:31 pm

I forgot about all of that Vic Mignogna drama. I knew that he and NV/P2 had fallen out, but didn’t know there was also tension between him and Farragut. Well, it would be in all of their best interests to put their personal feelings aside and try for solidarity, at least until this issue of the guidelines is resolved.

Where did you see that New Voyages is shutting down permanently? That’s terrible news if it’s true. NV has been showing steady progress over the past several episodes and finally starting to (IMO) rival STC in terms of watchability.

I can’t blame him, though I’m certainly interested in knowing the details of why it became such a chore for him.

There must be someone else involved with NV who can take over Cawley’s production responsibilities.

May 30, 2016 11:59 am

Richard

Just saw the Phase II people at Wonderfest in Louisville over the weekend and they aren’t shutting down.

June 6, 2016 8:04 pm

Lostrod

I went back to their website at http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/ and it says “under construction – check back for our new web presence”. Not sure if that’s just a generic message when a site is taken down or if they are planning something else …

Regards.

June 1, 2016 12:56 pm

James

Does he really believe that CBS is interested in what he thinks the guidelines should be. He’s a true narcisst if he thinks so.

Do any of the other fan films want to participate? No!! They all know he’s crazy. This guy deserves to go to prison. He bought a car, took a salary, took lavish trips and paid his SAG dues with fan money.

May 29, 2016 5:36 pm

TUP

Has Peters broke many of the rules he is putting forth?

And isnt the crowdfunding ban an attempt on his part to ensure most (if not all) Fan Films never rise to the level of his since basically he’d keep all his crowd funding money? Presumably he feels the ball is rolling enough that he can continue to make films now that he’s spent his money on key things. Especially if his plan was simply to use Trek money to build a working studio to make other films (and rent out).

Seems like Peters is an arrogant guy who essentially wants to be the last one through the door and the guy with the keys. He wants to be the leader of the fan films. I wouldnt mind if he goes away.

May 30, 2016 6:57 am

Ahmed

@TUP, “And isnt the crowdfunding ban an attempt on his part to ensure most (if not all) Fan Films never rise to the level of his since basically he’d keep all his crowd funding money?” You see, this is precisely the problem with this article. Carlos Pedraza puts forth the notion that only Peters gets to keep the money from the previous crowdfunding, making it sounds like he is the sole beneficiary of banning crowdfunding. In doing so Mr. Pedraza deliberately omit that other fan productions like ‘Star Trek: Continues’, which raised over $200.000 from their last crowdfunding, will also get to keep their money. It’s just the same biased reporting that focus on the Axanar merchandise and the COFFEE, while completely ignoring ‘Star Trek Renegades’ full line of merchandise ranging from from DVD, Blu Ray, posters, VIP dinner, photo op, books to Starfleet phaser, tricorder. As for the issue of banning crowdfunding, here is what one of the fan productions says about that ‘Star Trek: Intrepid’ producer Nick Cook: “I’m also going to stick my neck out here and say I absolutely believe that there needs to be limits set on crowdfunding, assuming it’s not gone completely (though I imagine it is). Want to crowdfund your own product, have at it. Want to use somebody else’s IP? You do it on our terms or not at all.” Why should CBS/Paramount allow the fan-films to continue raising hundreds of thousands of dollars using Star Trek’s IP without any limits or… Read more »

May 30, 2016 8:02 am

TUP

Yeah true but I guess what I mean is, Peters has a plan, seemingly, where he would be become self sufficient based on the success of Axanar so he wont necessarily need crowd funding in the future. So banning it, effectively prevents other fan productions from doing what he is attempting – use crowd funding that is meant for Trek to essentially fund the creation of a new for-profit studio that will then be self-sufficient and profitable moving forward.

Which seems like a smart thing to do…if not for those meddling studio execs.

Now, that’s too bad! I enjoyed some of NV/Phase II. It was imperfect but entertaining. Sad to see it go.

May 31, 2016 1:49 pm

Richard

Again just talked with the actors and crew who attended Wonderfest 48 hours ago. Phase II is going nowhere. In fact they’re still gearing up for the release of”Torment of Destiny”

June 6, 2016 8:08 pm

Mockit

That “Axanar” guy really needs to shut his mouth for all the problems he’s created. Paramount/CBS should be the ones calling the shots. I don’t wanna lose “Star Trek-New Voyages” and other really cool fan films because of this bonehead.

May 30, 2016 2:26 pm

Ahmed

The official Star Trek Facebook page posted a fan video with Alec Peters.

TechDirt has some interesting reporting on what was said about Lin/Abrams’ announcement, ‘Star Trek Fan Film Axanar Lawyers Tell Court About JJ Abrams Claims Of Paramount Dropping Suit, Express Confusion’:

Yeah, not surprising after the anti-Axanar folks turned the comments section into a battleground. It is still available on the Axanar official page.

May 31, 2016 7:37 am

kmart

Why wouldn’t it be on the Axanar page? That’s like expecting something other than hot air to emit from the thing you put your hands in after washing in a public bathroom.

June 2, 2016 6:29 am

Herbie Flynn

I think any guidelines will be based on what Star Trek: New Voyages has been allowed to do – the one fan film with the strongest and longest ties to the studio. They set the pace, and anytime CBS asked them not to do something, they compiled. These “unwritten rules”

You can’t tell me the Studio doesn’t already have internal guidelines in place to deal with fan film? Just because the studio has been reluctant to set guidelines officially, doesn’t mean they don’t have something internally.

I don’t think any guidelines will be doom and gloom or the end of fanfilms.

May 31, 2016 11:42 am

Disinvited

Herbie Flynn,

What are you talking about? Despite Cawley’s assertion that “I’m not going to do anything that might be questionable. I have such a good relationship with CBS that I can call them anytime and ask, ‘Is this a problem?’ ”, they shut down his planned production of Spinrad’s unfilmed script even though he had previously done a Gerrold unfilmed script with no static about it from the Big Eye:

So apparently you are asserting that Cawley crosses the “unwritten rules” in some manner separate from how Peters did the same thing? Because from Cawley’s statement and your assertion when he announced his intentions in the month prior CBS indicated something different back then on the “phone”?

May 31, 2016 3:15 pm

Herbie Flynn

Yes, there is a difference between the situations – apples and oranges.

Again, CBS didn’t threaten, they didn’t drag him into court, they asked him not to use the script, and he didn’t. (Same way they asked him not to use more of the Phase 2 ’77 Scripts and concepts)

The point is no other fan film “producer” has the type of relationship with CBS that James does. (Some other have good relationships, others none!) Again, CBS should use their relationship with him as the blueprint to how to deal with fan films.

One or two issues with CBS doesn’t put Cawley in the same boat as Peters. CBS could have shut James down anytime in the last decade and didn’t.

May 31, 2016 8:08 pm

Disinvited

Herbie Flynn,

You are splitting hairs.There was more involved than just obeying some C&D directive. The project’s writer/director had to reach a settlement with Paramount. Spinrad was dragged to court.

June 1, 2016 9:42 am

Herbie Flynn

Perhaps I am splitting hairs, but the fact is it was resolved and CBS didn’t go and shut down NV/P2 when they could have.

June 1, 2016 10:04 am

Disinvited

Herbie Flynn,

And neither did CBS get an injunction and force Peters, et al, to shut down. Peters/Axanar voluntarily shut down Axanar production in exchange for the court giving them more time to respond to the claims. That is quite a different thing than what you are asserting has taken place which is only roughly equivalent to HE WALKS AMONG US being shut down and NOT what you are intimating..

June 1, 2016 2:32 pm

Herbie Flynn

Thank you for the clarification.

June 1, 2016 4:58 pm

Cygnus-X1

A new Star Trek Continues episode was released 5 days ago! Strange that it wasn’t reported by TrekMovie!

Axanar sounded like a super idea, prior to the details of the program Peters is running (specifically the ‘for profit studio’) began coming out. If Peters can’t play by the long established rules regarding ST Fan Films, I say his project should officially be canned, and let Peters deal with any legal repercussion of his ignominious attempt to change fan film ground rules.

Additionally, Peters proposed “rule book” appears (with gleaming clarity) to be an attempt to clear himself legally as well as an attempt to dictate production values of future fan made films, regardless of the group producing.

Whether or not the proposed new rule book is a legal maneuver in response of Peter’s not playing by the rules (instigating the lawsuit(s) all because by his decided he could change the game plan. How did Peters ever conclude (convince himself) he could end up having his own ‘for profit studio’ out of this deal without some serious legal repercussions?

I just hope ‘ax’ in Axanar isn’t somehow prophetic for the future of ST fan made films (a simple case of one bad apple spoiling the pie for everyone).