Their 8 game 5th set -- a set Almagro gimped around on one leg -- was a minute longer than their 10 game 1st set. Official time: 3:39. Both players struggled in the 4th set, as each was broken 4 consecutive times.

6-4 (34'), 6-4 (42'), 7-5 (49'), 7-6(4) (64'), 6-2 (35')

Almagro was steamrolling for nearly 3 full sets, then thought he was going to win and crapped himself when serving for the match in the 3rd set. Those set times look about right for a tennis match, especially when you've got two guys that play at a fast pace. Djokovic and Nadal set times are artificially inflated because they take so much time between points. They play 5 minute games only because 2 minutes are spent towelling, walking around after points, bouncing the ball, picking their butt, etc.. Convert those set times to Rafa/Nole Time and you'll have a match that approaches 4:30.

But as you showed, score/time doesn't show all. In the fourth set, it was 7-6 and took 64 minutes. That might say to someone that it was a good set. Yet, on the contrary, it was a pretty embarrassing set with both of them choking hard and not being able to even begin to protect their serves. Then, finally, in the fifth, Almagro broke down completely and Ferrer finished him.

But, see, now you bring up a valid complaint. That's fine. You have a right to complain about them elongating breaks and about their habits that you might find annoying. I'm just saying that the matches produce great tennis that is a ton of fun to watch.

But as you showed, score/time doesn't show all. In the fourth set, it was 7-6 and took 64 minutes. That might say to someone that it was a good set. Yet, on the contrary, it was a pretty embarrassing set with both of them choking hard and not being able to even begin to protect their serves. Then, finally, in the fifth, Almagro broke down completely and Ferrer finished him.

But, see, now you bring up a valid complaint. That's fine. You have a right to complain about them elongating breaks and about their habits that you might find annoying. I'm just saying that the matches produce great tennis that is a ton of fun to watch.

I don't deny you or ME that. I just claim there are diminishing returns to 5-6 hour matches being the measure of EPIC. Anything less is considered a letdown. In the long run, that's simply not sustainable and will be detrimental to tennis fandom.

In any event, you're a class act, Rafa816, and a good addition to the forum. Too bad you caught me at the AO, a major I'm most critical of due to the length of the matches. Somewhat ironically and then not at all, you'll be surprised to learn that my favorite majors are RG and the USO. In fact, I'll be going to Paris in May for my 4th RG in the past 9. Saw Rafa play on Chartrier in 2005.

But as you showed, score/time doesn't show all. In the fourth set, it was 7-6 and took 64 minutes. That might say to someone that it was a good set. Yet, on the contrary, it was a pretty embarrassing set with both of them choking hard and not being able to even begin to protect their serves. Then, finally, in the fifth, Almagro broke down completely and Ferrer finished him.

But, see, now you bring up a valid complaint. That's fine. You have a right to complain about them elongating breaks and about their habits that you might find annoying. I'm just saying that the matches produce great tennis that is a ton of fun to watch.

I don't deny you or ME that. I just claim there are diminishing returns to 5-6 hour matches being the measure of EPIC. Anything less is considered a letdown. In the long run, that's simply not sustainable and will be detrimental to tennis fandom.

In any event, you're a class act, Rafa816, and a good addition to the forum. Too bad you caught me at the AO, a major I'm most critical of due to the length of the matches. Somewhat ironically and then not at all, you'll be surprised to learn that my favorite majors are RG and the USO. In fact, I'll be going to Paris in May for my 4th RG in the past 9. Saw Rafa play on Chartrier in 2005.

The players will play the way that is most advantageous to them.If shorter points would win games then that's what they would do.Right now we have some great defenders, and with the slower courts it just doesn't pay to play high risk tennis.

The payoff is keeping the ball in play, against almost all of the players out of the top 4 no one can keep it going for hours on end. The top 4 will almost certainly win under these conditions.

Other than for Djokovic / Murray tards, the AO 2013 finals match was not compelling viewing, and no amount of ranting to the contrary will change that fact. Here were the two best players in the world playing each other, and this was the match they could muster up. Murray's performance was especially disappointing. Djokovic has a superb game & Murray has improved his game & confidence enormously. It promised to be a better match than it was. And for me, the disappointment relates to that alone. Nothing more or less than that.

In comparison, for example, the Djokovic / Wawrinka match was compelling viewing, as was the Federer / Murray match.

Viewing figures are bound to reflect a number of factors. Here, the Wimbledon 2012 final had the highest Wimbledon viewing figures ever, according to the BBC. In large part, that would be due to Murray being British. The previous highest figures were for a Henman match, again, according to the BBC. And again, because Henman is British. Viewing figures are not the yardstick for measuring whether a match was a good match or not, nor can they shed light on the merits of the games of player. All they can guage is interest & interest in the match can arise for any number of reasons.

You are like the biggest Fedtard ever out there. When Federer made the semi, some of you made a big deal about how his previous match was a 5 setter against Tsonga and how he was ďgassedĒ in the 5th set against Murray. But when it comes to Andy, his previous match against Federer which was also a 5 setter, you conveniently donít take that into account. You also donít take into account that Murray had a giant blister in his foot so he was physically compromised, but more importantly, his win over Federer was a major emotional victory as Federer denied Murray 3 Slams just prior and heíd been struggling to get a win over Federer. After that final big win, he was mentally all spent. I post on another forum where I specifically stated that 'I just donít see Andy 100% fit for the final, so I am actually expecting a loss there'. If you look back to all their meetings (Murray vs Djokovic), starting from 2012 AO, you will see that their matches have been far more competitive than any other match-ups. Be it AO semi or USO final or Olympics semi or Shanghai Final or WTA RR. But here at the AO, Andy wasnít the same player because of the reasons Iíve stated above but he still kept the match fairly competitive in the first two sets.

Nadal leads Federer 5-0 in GSs since 2008 and no matter how competitive their matches were the outcome was always NID. How boring is that? When the outcome is this predictable, it doesn't make it interesting period. I donít see you talking about that.

The TV ratings are the direct results and facts as to how people see these matches and rivalry. If it says in 2002 Sampras vs Agassi final had 6.2 rating, then it means that many people found this rivalry interesting and decided to watch this match. And if it says 2009 Juan Martin del Potro vs Roger Federer final match at the USO had 2.3 rating, then it had one of the lowest ratings of all time. Itís as simple as that. 2008 Federer vs Nadal Wimbledon final didnít make the top rating but 1999 Sampras vs Agassi Wimbledon final did make the cut as one of the 3 most watched finals.

Now Americans are biased as they tend to watch American players mostly, history will tell you that, but then again you have 2006 Federer vs Roddick USO final but more importantly, you have 2005 Federer vs Agassi USO final and both these matches did not make the cut as the top rated ones. And thatís despite Federer being ďsexy & popularĒ and both Roddick and Agassi being both Americans. And thatís the truth.

And I am not really sure why youíd bring Henman up here. He was NEVER in any GS final. So be factual and truthful for once in your life. As to Murray, well first of all, heís making people watch his matches and that means heís generating interest. Thatís a HUGE plus. And thatís happening clearly because the Brits feel heís far more talented and promising than Henman ever was. The Brits hadnít seen a GS victory not to mention a GS Champion since Fred Perry which was 75 years ago. So if they get carried away with Murray, then they have every single freakin right to do so. The Americans have produced great players in every decade, every era so they don't need to wait for another decade and so it doesn't make as big a difference. Andy was given the hardest road to achieve what heís achieved so far. Not only he had the huge amount of pressure of overcoming this long built expectation for years but he also had to face 3 great players ahead of him. None of the other three had to play a former or Current No. in their all finals. So donít be such a big whatever and appreciate the fact he wasnít as ďprivilegedĒ unlike the hero you worship.

And if you are talking about the quality of a match (surprise, surprise) then I can tell you Nadal playing to Federerís backhand umpteenth times and Federer eventually shanking the ball into the net umpteenth times is not exactly a quality view. When these top guys put pressure on Federerís serve, it takes a toll on Federerís entire game and he then becomes very error prone. Thereís absolutely nothing pretty about that and it lacks quality from the get go. But hey, I am not complaining.

Let me decode Babbsí real frustration here. First of all, heís a very biased person. So if he says heís being objective then heís only kidding himself. If you pay attention to his posts over the years, you will notice that Americans (unless you are Serena), Italians, French and Spanish players can do nothing wrong. In any case, take this Murray vs Federer match where Federer told Andy off (Ďyou f**king stoppedí) when he was serving for the match, Babbs hasnít said a word (thatís because he needs Federer and his fans right now and I will explain later why so) but if a player he doesnít like, Serena for instance, he would have made a bigger mess than the actual mess and all hell would have broken loose. All you have to do is pay attention to all these incidents and subsequent reactions by not only Babbs but some other posters. But it's been all very quite on the western front here despite Federer getting Edberg sportsmanship award year after year.

Babbs main frustration is that this forum is declining and itís not seeing as many fans as it used to. So heís basically taking it out on Andy and Nole and blaming their rivalry for this forumís downfall. When in reality, this forum has always been a Heaven for the Federer fans and the majority of the fans have always been Federer fans (I used to count back then and both in 2008 and 2009, the ratio was 5:1). It peaked in 2008 since the Nadal vs Federer rivalry peaked at that time, when Nadal decided to take things outside clay/RG and dethrone Federer. If you go back to those times, you would see nothing but bickerings/arguments between Fed and Nadal fans (and Babbs loved it I tell ya). In 2009, it was obvious since Nadal got knocked out of RG by Soderling and decided to sit out Wimbledon. Double delight for Federer fans as Federer not only won RG and he also broke Samprasí record that year as well. So itís no wonder that this forum was flooding with Federer fans. Along came 2010 and Nadal swept the floor with 3 Slam victories and Federer didn't get see another Slam until 2012. Thatís when the forum started to decline in 2010 and both Murray and Djokovic rivalry was nowhere in sight. So Babbs is basically barking at the wrong rivalry right now.

This is mainly a fan based forum and not a general one but Babbs is delusional enough to think otherwise. Both Murray and Djokovic have always had limited number of fans here. I myself moved to another forum where it allows me to interact with other Murray fans. This one does have Nadal fans but they always stick to their own zone. So that really leaves Federer fans and Babbsí now advocating them for his own selfish reasons. But much to his dismay, when Federer retires, this forum will cease to exist. I mean this is no rocket science here when Nadal fans either get banned or their posts get deleted or compromised, eh? I mean you donít need a bigger hint than this.

This forum will never see the kind of success itís seen back in 2008 and 2009 because Federer is not getting younger and fans like Pawan, Gawdblessya etc. will disappear faster than the light once he retires.

And it is so lame to compare a full blown rivalry (Nadal vs Federer) vs one that has only started (since 2012 USO in fact) and itís even lamer when he compares menís final vs womenís. First of all, take a good look at the WTA AO thread here. 12 f**king pages vs 44 AO Menís pages. And if the womenís final drew 300,000 more people then there are a lot more reasons there than that. For one, Azarenkaís semi vs Stephens was very controversial because of the injury time out and so a lot of people became very curious about the final. But take a good look at the womenís semi and the other menís semi. The so called popular player Sharapova was beaten 2 and 2 by Li Na and Stephens was beaten by Azarenka 1 & 4. Even the other menís semi was very straight forward when Nole went on to beat Ferrer 2,2,2.

So talk about hypocrisy here. I mean when you are this biased you canít possibly convince people that you are being ďobjectiveĒ but thanks for the laugh Babbs, as usual I do like your humour. I am sure some of the Fedtards were convinced or at least it looks that way.

Emma, just curious, what's the other board with more friendly Murray fans? Do they have many Nole fans too? I mean, realistically there are only few Nole fans here and I'm the only one who is active.

plus if you post there more I'd like to join. I have this urge to stalk you

You should stay here ...with Babbs. He'll need you to comfort him. Besides, you two can grow older together. I will visit from time to time to see if everything is okay. Old love die hard, no?

darn, tell me the name or email me. what can it be, MTF (I post there, they hate Murray), TW (not very Murray friendly) 90% of posters are Fedtards. tennis.com killed their forum. there is nothing else left, unless you are posting on the Andy Murray official board..

Emma, just curious, what's the other board with more friendly Murray fans? Do they have many Nole fans too? I mean, realistically there are only few Nole fans here and I'm the only one who is active.

plus if you post there more I'd like to join. I have this urge to stalk you

You should stay here ...with Babbs. He'll need you to comfort him. Besides, you two can grow older together. I will visit from time to time to see if everything is okay. Old love die hard, no?

darn, tell me the name or email me. what can it be, MTF (I post there, they hate Murray), TW (not very Murray friendly) 90% of posters are Fedtards. tennis.com killed their forum. there is nothing else left, unless you are posting on the Andy Murray official board..

What would be the point if I left this place only to go to MTF where there are even more Federer fans? Where I post is my safe Heaven. And it allows me to have a direct contact with Andy too. I like this place because I can talk about other players too and it's much more sane, since there are only a few Nadal fans and even fewer Federer fans, no constant fighting etc. So the atmosphere is much more civil. I got tired of this place but I don't mind coming here from time to time.

Emma, this AO final was not an entertaining match. Murray in particular played a disappointing match. I suspect his easy draw & lack of good match practice until the semi might be something to do with it, as might the 5 setter against Federer, but it wasn't a good finals match from him. And Djokovic too played better in some of his earlier rounds.

As for the rest, Henman's match is relevant as it relates to the discussion on national interests & viewing figures. I was surprised to read that even though Hemnan was not playing a final, his match has the second highest Wimbledon viewing figures after the Murray / Federer final last year. Both matches have high viewing figures because of British interest.

As for Federer/Nadal, I'm not sure why this is relevant to what I've said about the AO finals match. Unless of course that for you, beating this particular dead horse seems to be a hobby, given that you have said what you say about Federer / Nadal matches ad nauseam. I haven't compared Murray / Djokovic to other players in other finals matches. There is no need to do so. Their less than compelling AO finals match stands on its own. Just as any excellent matches they have played, whether individually with others, or together, stand on their own.

As for Murray/ Federer matches, many of these have been excellent ones, not least because Murray has often outplayed Federer, and shown what a fine player he is. but And he is getting better - his serve was a revelation against Federer in the AO semi final, a match that I enjoyed more than the final.

You raise a good point about the Djokovic / Murray rivalry being in its infancy. Given that these two are likely to be crossing swords more often than not in the finals of tournaments they play, looking forward, I'm hoping that Murray will give Djokovic a better contest than he did at the AO final next time. He has done it before - the Olympics & the USO for example.

Regardless of anything, entertaining tennis would be welcome from all those who play, and I don't hold your Murraytardism against you for a moment. In fact, I think it is rather sweet.

Emma, this AO final was not an entertaining match. Murray in particular played a disappointing match. I suspect his easy draw & lack of good match practice until the semi might be something to do with it, as might the 5 setter against Federer, but it wasn't a good finals match from him. And Djokovic too played better in some of his earlier rounds.

As for the rest, Henman's match is relevant as it relates to the discussion on national interests & viewing figures. I was surprised to read that even though Hemnan was not playing a final, his match has the second highest Wimbledon viewing figures after the Murray / Federer final last year. Both matches have high viewing figures because of British interest.

As for Federer/Nadal, I'm not sure why this is relevant to what I've said about the AO finals match. Unless of course that for you, beating this particular dead horse seems to be a hobby, given that you have said what you say about Federer / Nadal matches ad nauseam. I haven't compared Murray / Djokovic to other players in other finals matches. There is no need to do so. Their less than compelling AO finals match stands on its own. Just as any excellent matches they have played, whether individually with others, or together, stand on their own.

As for Murray/ Federer matches, many of these have been excellent ones, not least because Murray has often outplayed Federer, and shown what a fine player he is. but And he is getting better - his serve was a revelation against Federer in the AO semi final, a match that I enjoyed more than the final.

You raise a good point about the Djokovic / Murray rivalry being in its infancy. Given that these two are likely to be crossing swords more often than not in the finals of tournaments they play, looking forward, I'm hoping that Murray will give Djokovic a better contest than he did at the AO final next time. He has done it before - the Olympics & the USO for example.

Regardless of anything, entertaining tennis would be welcome from all those who play, and I don't hold your Murraytardism against you for a moment. In fact, I think it is rather sweet.

Gawdblessya, you don't understand. Emma has a big mouth and she can talk a lot but she can't listen. It's either her way or the highway. Murray lost the final at the AO because Djokovic is doping (so, she thinks, well she is not sure but that must be the reason ). Because you are a 'Fed tard' she won't take you seriously not matter what you say or how smart you are ... you are an enemy . I'm Serbian because I support Nole, according to her . Babs is an idiot because he disagrees with her. what else, oh yeah, Babs and I should get married because we are gay/bi. Nobody is as smart as Emma. Everyone is biased except her, but hey she knows it all.

so just give up. it's not worth it. She turned out to be a major troll on this board. She used to be funny but not any more

You are always a waste of time, Alex. And you now you are going to turn even more bitter because you are not getting what you want. And when you don't get what you want, you very quickly show your true color. Mind you, this had nothing to do with you in the first place but that didn't stop you.