October 4, 2012

"That way, no big deal. That was my solution. He said okay, whatever." As soon as the debate began, Cox found himself outfoxed. He went into it in traditional fashion, preparing facts to lay out, one argument after another, gleaned from books and Time and Newsweek.

And Barry got up there and he just had a few arguments that I hadn’t thought of.… I was always touching back to this many killed, guns are killing, and he was just bouncing all over the place, but what he did is he went up to that ten-thousand-foot level. I remember him talking about, “How do guns make gun owners feel?” I hadn’t thought of that. How am I going to respond? He was very good on his feet, thinking more strategically on what could benefit him. I was sitting there flabbergasted; I remember thinking this is too heavily a philosophical question for me. And the teacher loved it. Barry was very smooth, and I started stumbling around all over the place. I felt he formulated in his own mind while we were doing it a kind of angle or wedge that was different than the angle I had been going. I was literal— one, two, three, four— and he kind of did some audibles. He wasn’t pulling out a whole lot of facts, he just seemed to have structured a bunch of little islands that he could jump to....

By the time Cox faced off against him, Barry had already mastered the art of knocking a debate opponent off-balance. He had been practicing almost daily on Gramps, who had tried without much success to assume the role of disciplinarian, laying down what the teenager considered to be “an endless series of petty and arbitrary rules” about use of the car and chores around the apartment. Eventually Barry would regret the way he dealt with his grandfather, but at the time he took advantage of his debating skills: “With a certain talent for rhetoric, as well as an absolute certainty about the merits of my own views, I found that I could generally win these arguments in the narrow sense of leaving my grandfather flustered, angry, and sounding unreasonable.”

Unfortunately for Obama, Romney is not the kind of kid who'd make a deal to just go for B's. And Romney's not Gramps, though I note that, in Obama's practice sessions for the debate, the role of Romney was played by John Kerry. And I think Kerry was Gramps.

As already noted, Romney has had to manage tons of employees on all levels of management as well as deal with the daily steaming pile of logic from five sons.

Without his teleprompter or a crowd of bussed-in street people to rave his "eat the rich" class hatred, Obama is clueless, the public knows what is happening and the msm can't throw dirt over it quick enough. The meme in the NYTimes and WaPo this morning that "debates don't matter" and "it was a tie!" are surreal, even for them.

With a certain talent for rhetoric, as well as an absolute certainty about the merits of my own views, I found that I could generally win these arguments in the narrow sense of leaving my grandfather flustered, angry, and sounding unreasonable.

Let me fix that for you...

I found that I could generally win these arguments in the narrow sense of disrespecting the grandfather who took me in and paid for my education at Punahou so that Mom could go chase her rainbows.

Trying to manipulate the American people for the car keys after you've driven the car over the cliff, is challenging. And oh so boring. Why can't the Pravda media just cover for him? He has such a nice smile.

Kerry for a fill-in for Romney? That is a joke. Kerry swift-boated himself with his own made-up fabulousity while Obama had someone else manufacture his fabulousness. Both are living in a dream world devoid of real world experience. Once again, the elitist millionaires have proven themselves to be dreamers with other people's money paving the way to Sysiphean punishment. Will they ever learn?

Yeah it's easy to impress your lefty teacher with charm and emotion. Like previous posters said, he'd be out first round at your local high school debate tourney this saturday, and they are still in the novice season.

Kerry isn't actually a bad debater, but he wasn't stunningly good either (Bush II was not a particularly good debater though he made his points effectively). I suspect the problem that Kerry had was he tried to roleplay Romney (Portman apparently does an excellent Obama impression himself), and fell into the trap of roleplaying the self-congratulating liberal caricature of Romney.

How long did it take you to come up with that excuse for Obama's sorry performance last night?

How is this:

Unfortunately for Obama, Romney is not the kind of kid who'd make a deal to just go for B's. And Romney's not Gramps,

An excuse for the President's performance? I think a big part of the President's problem was that he has been built up in the media (and his own mind) as a great persuasive speaker, sharp and informed and quick on his mental feet, while in fact he is none of these things. But it's also possible to think Obama simply misjudged his opponent badly. That's a pretty clearcut failure. Either on the President's part, or the part of his handlers.

The Obama Administration is what America gets when it elects someone with no executive experience, an academic mindeset (minus the intellect) and no work ethic to be the Chief Executive. Let’s learn from that mistake and never repeat it.

Obama's grandfather must have been quite the pussy. I my home growing up, obnoxiously debating and manipulating the Colonel would risk losing your front teeth or at least being restricted to home for the weekend.

The Obama Administration is what America gets when it elects someone with no executive experience, an academic mindeset (minus the intellect) and no work ethic to be the Chief Executive. Let’s learn from that mistake and never repeat it.

Yes, but a little off topic. It doesn't require executive experience to smile politely for the camera while your opponent is speaking rather than pursing your lips and glowering down at the lectern, or regurgitate your campaign's talking points in a credible manner.

Obama's failure last night does point to the ways in which he's been grossly overhyped as a communicator, but that's neither here nor there as far as basic executive competence.

Obama is smarter than most he encounters, but alas he thought that meant he was smarter than anyone else in the room. Too bad for him he never got the kind of dust up he received last night when he was younger, he might have learned some humility, which is his great weakness. If you truly cannot see your own flaws you are just an easy target, no matter how smart you may be.

Althouse, be honest with yourself. This was not just poor prep. You would expect a sitting President to be better than that with no Prep at all. Debating is his trade - his training - his strength. He simply isn't good enough even at what he's best at, and you hired him to do something much harder and infinitely more important. What exactly does a person develop at law school?

“With a certain talent for rhetoric, as well as an absolute certainty about the merits of my own views, I found that I could generally win these arguments in the narrow sense of leaving my grandfather flustered, angry, and sounding unreasonable.”

Obama's failure last night does point to the ways in which he's been grossly overhyped as a communicator, but that's neither here nor there as far as basic executive competence.

Basic executive experience teaches you to listen to other viewpoints instead of believing you're the smartest person in any room. An executive has to evaluate information, ask good questions and make decisions, not just read the bullet points. It also means you have to be able to evaluate people and select good ones to work for you. A first rate leader selects first rate people to work with him. A second rate leader picks third rate people so they won't outshine him. Personally, I doubt Obama is even a third rate leader. He shows little ability to learn from failure (by advocating socialist policies that have failed the world over), meaning he isn't intelligent and most definitely isn't wise.

Last night, the real Obama stood on the stage and the world got to see that he's the President with No Clothes. He isn't even an empty suit or chair.

...except that Pres. Obama and his administration repeatedly cite messaging as his administration's biggest weakness.

It would seem that the ability to realistically self-evaluate (and, if necessary, adjust) -- neither of which this administration has manifested -- is part of basic executive competence.

True. Although I think your point points to something a little more subtle, which is that the administration has enough awareness to recognise the President has difficulty communicating (something which conflicts with the media narrative), but thinks it's the messaging, not the message or the messenger. It may actually be all three.

I have seen comments that George H.W. Bush lost to Bill Clinton because he just refused to take Clinton seriously as a candidate for the Presidency.

I think we saw some of that last night. Obama detests Romney personally and all that - in his mind - Romney stands for. Thus the body language and disdainful facial expressions. That smile is also something you see on Obama when he meets up with something he truly does not like and does not want to hear about.

I did "serious" high school debate...won several tournaments on the national circuit. I agree with the premise that there was a certain level of thinking where the competition took place, and in brief moments of lucidity (that are not common among teenagers) some participants could rise above it and convince the judges to go their way, despite any real clash with the opposing team's argument. Generally they appealed to the (mostly liberal) sensibilities of the college students and high school teachers who were playing the role of adjudicator. This style was most often popularized in the form critiques ('Kritiks', actually, to those in the know...or even just Ks), but Ks as generally observed just packaged some of this higher-level analysis into a format that could be regurgitated by the rest of the kids. It's a rare individual who can kritik 'on the fly' at that age. I probably accomplished it only a handful of times in my career.