Let's be clear. China has no love for the US and I dont trust Putin enough even to change my cat's litter tray.

However the two countries and
their leaders are not idiots. They want to trade in order to keep their own economies in order and by doing so keeping themselves in power and their
population happy. The Chinese have stated they are annoyed with N Korea and the UN unamiously backed sanctions against North Korea, even China did not
veto it, angered by the latest nuke test. They dont want a nuclear war anymore than you or I do. The prospect of a nuclear mushroom cloud being
broadcast live on BBC News or Sky News et al terrifies me. Both countries know that if one nuke is let off it could set off a chain reaction from
which NOBODY wins. WHO will be left to trade witth? And with everywhere being irraidated how will one get the materials to produce the goods?

It will not do. Both China and Russia will not wage nuclear war over North Korea. If the USA or indeed any other power invades Russia or China
directly, well then all bets are off and then they WOULD retaliate. But we are not talking about invading them directly. It is North Korea which is
the problem.

Personally I really do think the UN security council should be holding emergency meetings NOW to discuss the situation and coming to an agreement to
send in UN troops that even Russia and China cant argue with. Once inside North Korea I think the world is going to be horrified at what they find.
Concentration camps that mirror Nazi Germany and the Russian Gulags of the Stalin era. I also wonder if the average North Korean soldier, who is most
likely conscripted in will simply surrender, thankful that the nightmare of over 60 years is finally over. Of course much of the population will be
brainwashed and it will take time for them to get used to the idea of even basic freedoms.

War is never justifiable, however there are exceptions. If North Korea ie Mr Un blows a gasket and starts one, and ideally it would be UN troops that
would get the job done, then I think in the long run what they will find as described above will justify such an invasion. I just hope it does not go
nuclear. I have no quarrel with the ordinary North Korean who are victims in all of this. They have been and potentially could be still, victims of a
holoucast perpetuated by an evil regieme who, if and when are caught and arrested, should be put on trial for crimes against humanity, and if heaven
forbid they do use a nuke, charged with war crimes as well.

North Korea has revealed its plans to strike targets in Hawaii and the continental United States in photos taken in Kim Jong-un's military command
centre.

The photos appeared in the state-run Rodong newspaper and were apparently taken at an "emergency meeting" early on Friday morning. They show Kim
signing the order for North Korea's strategic rocket forces to be on standby to fire at US targets, the paper said, with large-scale maps and
diagrams in the background.

The images show a chart marked "US mainland strike plan" and missile trajectories that the NK News web site estimates terminate in Hawaii,
Washington DC, Los Angeles and Austin, Texas.

Originally posted by sk8ter
Know one will shut that little fat guy up..you know why, Cause he has a bad ass Brother no 2 brothers who can bring it.. That's China and Putin...
Its those 2 who we have to think about,,, If any of you guys think for a minute that those guys won't respond don't worry they will and it won't
be GOOD,, It took Bush and Obama 10 years in the other war,, how long would this one take,, Everybody's life would change over night.. If we did hit
them even a little bit, all we would do is awake a sleeping Tiger and fill him with great resolve

Please. If it's China and Putin against USA, they know we know we're outnumbered militarily. If those two respond, they know we'll take them down
with us and make the world uninhabitable for anyone. They're not stupid. They realize we enough have nukes to destroy the planet many times over,
as do they. In that case they'll be no spoils for the victor.

Wrong it is a myth that we can blow up the world, look at my vid on page 2.

1) Those tests were done over decades and were single detonations, not all at once.

2) The amount of tests do not equate the amount of stock piled nuclear arms by all countries.

3) No one really means "Blow up the Earth" as in breaking the planet up. What they really mean is destroying the environment in which humans can
survive and thrive in: IE Nuclear Fallout and killing massive amounts of people within minutes.

Originally posted by UnBreakable
Please. If it's China and Putin against USA, they know we know we're outnumbered militarily. If those two respond, they know we'll take them down
with us and make the world uninhabitable for anyone. They're not stupid. They realize we enough have nukes to destroy the planet many times over,
as do they. In that case they'll be no spoils for the victor.

Do you think China/Russia (and the US) would risk this for this rotten country NK and their whack leader?
Hardly. Fact is, NK could vanish from the face of this planet and no one would really care or notice it.

I can, not in a million years ,think that China or Russia would have an "interest" to go to war with the US.

Wrong it is a myth that we can blow up the world, look at my vid on page 2.

I never said "blow up the world". I'm implying that the world will be inhabitable via nuclear fallout. No uncontaminated water, soil for
agriculure, extended nuclear winter, etc. Sooner or later the few survivors will have to emerge from their bunkers to replenish but there won't be
anything worthwhile to replenish with. Plus your vid doesn't take into account the unknown quantities of nukes and new tech we possess.

Look of course it would be the worse thing ever to happen to us, but life would go on it may take 1000s of years but the world has gone through 6
extinction events and life has recovered.
But lets not derail the thread eh?

Russia isn't nearly as tied to North Korea as they used to be. They wanted to build several projects in the country, but with the threat of war, and
the lack of return they would see they never went anywhere. Russia would be taking all the risk, as if there was an outbreak of war, and the project
was destroyed they would never recoup their losses on it.

China doesn't want to see a war because if there is, they will be flooded with refugees across the border into their territory, and they can't
handle that many people fleeing into their country that fast.

Originally posted by UnBreakable
Please. If it's China and Putin against USA, they know we know we're outnumbered militarily. If those two respond, they know we'll take them down
with us and make the world uninhabitable for anyone. They're not stupid. They realize we enough have nukes to destroy the planet many times over,
as do they. In that case they'll be no spoils for the victor.

Do you think China/Russia (and the US) would risk this for this rotten country NK and their whack leader?
Hardly. Fact is, NK could vanish from the face of this planet and no one would really care or notice it.

I can, not in a million years ,think that China or Russia would have an "interest" to go to war with the US.

Which is exactly my point, flex. Their not going to risk their existence playing big brother backup to some 28 year old punk schoolyard bully who is
leader of a rogue wannabe superpower.

Look of course it would be the worse thing ever to happen to us, but life would go on it may take 1000s of years but the world has gone through 6
extinction events and life has recovered.
But lets not derail the thread eh?

edit on 29-3-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Good read, but several assumptions, such as "As long as Soviet leaders are rational", which you have to assume (and pretty much dates the
material).

We are talking about a mass conflag here, not a limited exchange. The theoretical "all weapons are launched by all countries". That also is a
assumption.

However, while I have no doubt that life itself on Earth will go on and after enough time has passed the Earth will heal, it still does not change
this fact:

The world as we know it would end. It would be a world of people and things trying to survive. Little to no infrastructure left. Goodbye the
days of kicking back on your couch to watch a game on TV with a beer, or playing on your Xbox (unless you are sealed up in a bunker somewhere with
your own electricity, etc).

Again, I have no doubt that things will survive, and as you said, be healed after 1,000 years. But again, the world that we know today would be gone,
and life would be like, or worse than it was 1,000 years ago.

Nobody is going to defend NK. The chinese have vast leaverage over the world due to its ownership of the production of most basic goods. The russian
oligarchs (which includes the politicians to keep the oligarchs free to accumulate vast wealth) are buying up swathes of western property. Likewise
the chinese billionairs.

There is no way in hell china or russia will go to war with the west because they already own us !!!!!!

North Korea is sabre rattling with bigger sabres because we ignored it the last time. This will get louder until one day the leadership dies of a
mysterious illness.........

China has actually beefed up their border security for just that reason in recent weeks.

Wrong it is a myth that we can blow up the world, look at my vid on page 2.

I'm not anxious to test your theory, or mine. Suffice to say, initially, more than half of us would all be dead, then the survivors would face many
maladies from the fallout, inability to grow food in radioactive soil and water, and with the sun blacked out for a bit (that nuclear winter
refutation is a farce, but it would be less than what we thought in the 80's), and little to no game to hunt (and even that which is found may be
contaminated). Sure, we'd eventually work it out, but there'd be a LOT less of us, and we'd likely lose a lot of what we were. It would be a savage
world, making Mad Max look like a resort spa.

There is a lot of new data that suggests that even a regional nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan could lower global temperatures and
dramatically affect crops, etc. all over the world.

Kind of beside the point though. We would never use nukes in a NK conflict, and neither would Russia or China. NK doesn't have enough to do more than
just some regional damage with nukes, if it is dumb enough to use them.

Yeah, I thought I had read something recently that said they were preparing for more refugees. If it happens, they will be absolutely flooded in the
border region, and won't be able to even come close to handling it.

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