Lars said: "No events over a thousand people should be allowed on any SB beaches."

Try every square inch of our waterfront beaches from East Beach to Leadbetter and another 3-5,000 at Shoreline Park, covered with folks partying on 4th of July. Have you been to the waterfront in the past 10 years during a 4th of July celebration? My original point was that WBMF is a much more controlled environment compared to the standard annual celebrations that City Hall would have us believe are culturally redeeming.

Citizen Watchdog said: "There have been 86 years of Fiesta... making a comparison to a two-year old frat-rock festival is ludicrous."

Besides 4th of July, Fiesta is much worse on a much broader scale. 5 days of massive litter, vomit, underage drinking, public drunkeness, rape, violence are all annual staples of Fiesta.

So to compare two different events, that both attract attendees in large scale, is perfectly reasonable.

The events leading up to this most recent WBMF decision are biased and prejudiced at the very least. The back room tactics employed by city hall are simply disgusting.

Yet Santa Barbarans would prefer a 5-day tequila drunk-fest known as Fiesta that takes over our entire downtown area and has produced numerous violent acts and deaths over the years. Besides the fact that Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights of Fiesta serve as an unofficial gang meet-up for cliques from SLO down to Long Beach. Our family has not ventured downtown after dark during the Fiesta celebration in well over 5 years.

Just how many of those 257 police complaints were simply noise complaints? I'd love to see a comparison of the 5 day police complaint/arrest log during Fiesta. My family, including 2 small children attended WBMF the last 2 years and enjoyed a much more positive vibe and environment than can be found during Fiesta.

WBMF is much more safe, contained, clean and organized than even our 4th of July celebration that brings 10's of thousand of revelers to the waterfront each year. Last year they used metal detectors to scan for potential weapons at WBMF. No stabbing deaths in the last 3 WBMF's. The same can't be said for our 4th of July celebrations.

Ok, baiting me or not, it doesn't matter. A few steps you need to take: 1. Think for yourself. 2. Realize that mainstream news, be it FOX or MSNBC, is agendized information dictated by a concentrated group of multinational corporations. 3. Go to http://campaignforliberty.com and learn more. 4. Escape the false "Right or Left" paradigm and explore third party candidates, regardless of their party affiliation. 5. Support the constitution of the United States of America.

Oh my gosh... for shame. Such a broad brush! Nice to see that you side-stepped my point about her misreporting the facts and took my swipe at progressives as a personal assault. If you truly are a progressive, then you'd know that I hit the nail square on the head. Progressives are entirely about advocating change and reform. Especially over everyone else's lives. They feel that their own personal philosophies are the standard at which our society should reshape to.

You choose to defend liberalism, so know it is on the table. It is your liberal belief system is the rocket fuel that perpetuates our out-of-control, two-headed snake of a government. So feel great about picking a side and cheering your team on. "Liberals know best!" "No, Republicans are better with fiscal matters!" Here's a fact for you to check... it doesn't matter what team you are on, it's all BS and the same small group of elite robber barons are raking in trillions, regardless of which party is in power, while you guys (Conservatives and Liberals) argue back and forth about who knows best.

I myself am a Libertarian, I believe that there are far too many laws on the books and government has way too much control over what I can and can't do as a human being on this earth. That includes what I can and can't put inside my own body, whether it be goose liver, a joint or a penis for that matter.

You don't want to eat foie gras, fine... but stay the fu*k out of my decision making process.

Global Warming truly is similar to a religion in that people personally invest themselves in an entire way of life and belief system that is based on having faith in what they believe. Just like it is very hard to see an opposing point of view if you are a devout Christian that has been indoctrinated into a system by those you trust, as well it is very hard for a global warming believer because you are admitting that the basic fiber of your being is based upon a sham. Most people by nature are stubborn, competitive and don't want to admit to themselves that something that they so personally invested in could be so wrong and invalid. I truly feel sorry for you guys because I do believe that you are trying to do the right thing. And that's what these evil, sinister multinational corporations were banking on. Let's hope that we can get this behind us and start focusing on cleaning up the earth... reducing or eliminating man-made toxic pollution and the tainting of our water supplies and reducing measurable, physical pollution such as trash, bio-waste and toxic waste. I truly care about the state of our natural environments and our urban environments for that matter but the answer is not to enslave the earth's population into a massive tax scam based on emitting what animals emit naturally and what plant life thrives upon.

No apologies needed. I was simply explaining that in your attempt to move your point along, you presented a logical fallacy generally employed by the slick hucksters that you so blindly follow. As well, your attempt at minimizing the strong-arm transfer of trillions of dollars by comparing it to a "conspiracy to sell some florescent light bulbs" is also a blatant insult to the collective intelligence of those that are informed to both sides of this issue. Apparently your explanation is still a bit obtuse for us feeble minded independent thinkers. Your explanation does not clear up your attempt to compare the two. A straw man argument (which you brought up, not me) occurs when an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. Discussing the fact that Al Gore is being sued by 30,000+ scientists is completely relevant. Al Gore is spearheading the entire Climate Change hoax!

Also, just so I understand this correctly, Darwin did not present strong evidence in his respective field of study?

And let the logical fallacies start a rollin'. Did you really just compare the similarities between Creationism vs. Evolution and the Global Warming debate? In the same breath you've compared Al Gore, an elitist politician on the make to the tune of billions of dollars (with no scientific training) to Charles Darwin, a brilliant scientist who's discoveries are the unifying theories of the life sciences.

FightWoo, just because you use the word "tantamount", that doesn't make your argument any more logical.