Can Oda or Kozuka still be sent to worlds? Their SB is far better than Mura's and if the skate light outs in their events prior to Worlds a case could be made? Frankly it's a huge risk to send Mura at this point, specially if Takahashi is in the same form of 4cc

The decission has been made . I woudln't change it. If they want next season JPN fed can do as the RUS fed and hold on the announcement of the world team until after 4CC but right now it will not be fair for anyone. Plus I dont see the big risk, even if performing poorly Hanyu and Dai will get the 3 spots. The 3rd skater is always there just for the experience.

Mura's performances are not bad at all. Looks like 3 or 4 judges are determined to hold him down. Perhaps they considered that Mura could be a definite obstacle to regain/keep their Olympic spots. I think any #3 skater will be treated harshly at worlds. At least Mura can land the quad and the 3A consistently. He is the most promising #2 man after Sochi. They should give more chances to him regardless of current results or reputations.

Can anyone explain why the Junior scores are considered comparable and weigh in exactly the same when the required elements are different? Also, what happens to the skaters bumped out of the top 24 by Junior Worlds scores if those higher ranked Junior skaters are not moving up to Seniors?

Scores at senior B events are generally inflated than ISU events. Largely because the organizers want to give participants better chances to achieve the minimum for ISU championships. Finlandia and NRW are the most generous (outrageous) in this respect. They should never accept those scores for the official SB lists.

Scores at senior B events are generally inflated than ISU events. Largely because the organizers want to give participants better chances to achieve the minimum for ISU championships. Finlandia and NRW are the most generous (outrageous) in this respect. They should never accept those scores for the official SB lists.

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Then the ISU shouldn't give the skaters points to boost their rankings based on inflated scores.

I understand that-but if the ISU doesn't count the scores because they feel they are inflated; they shouldn't give them ISU points. They may as well give points for national results too or only give points for ISU Grand Prix, GPF, Euros, 4CC, Worlds and Olympics; which seem the most fair. Then you wouldn't have the world/seasons rankings so askew for teams who go to so many B competitions.

The ISU counts ISU and Olympic events, junior and senior, for the PB list. Senior B's aren't ISU events. They are sanctioned, in that skaters can compete in them without hurting their status, unless they skip GP, in which case they can't compete in the GP period, and, practically peaking, as the only way for many skaters to meet TES minimums. GP's are so skewed towards host country skaters.

I understand that-but if the ISU doesn't count the scores because they feel they are inflated; they shouldn't give them ISU points. They may as well give points for national results too or only give points for ISU Grand Prix, GPF, Euros, 4CC, Worlds and Olympics; which seem the most fair. Then you wouldn't have the world/seasons rankings so askew for teams who go to so many B competitions.

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Skaters and teams can go to as many B competitions as they wish, but on the ISU World Ranking list, only the top TWO results are counted for each year, and only the top four over a three-year period. So the maximum points accrued in a one-year period would be 500, and 1000 points over a 3-year period. Few non-GP skaters win two B events in one year or four over a three-year period.

But top skaters like Carolina Kostner do take advantage of the B comps for extra points. Even in years when she wasn't placing on the World podium, Carolina was often #1 on the list because of her two B wins per year. And yes, she often accrued 1000 points in B comps over a 3-year period.

To earn 1000 WS points over three years, a skater would have to win two in the current season and the last season, because the points from two seasons ago are reduced to 70% of their original value. That requires a lot of consistency, and athletes have to pay their way to Senior B's and get no prize money.

For Seniors, WS points affect GP SP starting order -- inverse of exact WS order -- and early internationals impact WS more for GP. For championships where skaters are grouped, WS impacts the SP draw group, but the only WS rankings that matter are the differences between draw groups. For example, for Worlds, the groups are:

1-12
13-15
everyone else with any WS points
those with no WS points

WS points make no difference between the skaters in 1-12 place: each has the same odds of skating first in the penultimate group as last in the final group. It can be a huge deal between #15 and #16, where #16 has much better odds of skating in the first two groups than the coveted first three of the third group, and a huge deal between having no ranking and the smallest ranking.

WS also impacts GP spots, but only a few skaters in Top 24 WS each year aren't also Top 24 SB, which guarantees a spot.

Gaining any WS points shows that the skater did well enough in international competition to place 1-5 with an international judging panel. Among skaters training in Europe, the relatively easy access to a Senior B to gain any points that are good for three seasons is a great investment, since it could mean the difference between skating first and 15th at Worlds. Not all 4C's skaters can make those trips, and 4C's functioned as the equivalent of international for many of the small Fed skaters.

Once minimum scores were introduced, it was impossible for the ISU to not accept Senior B scores toward minimums, even if they hadn't continue to limit GP fields. They had to create a way for more than one-two skaters from all but the strongest skaters to qualify for a championship. The trade-off with additional spots at 4C's is that AUS can send their 1-3 skaters to 4C's, and CRO can send their 2-7 skaters to Senior B's, which are inaccessible except to the wealthiest skaters training on other continents.

Is this true for all Russian and Japanese skaters? U.S. skaters' and coaches' expenses are covered by USFS, and this seems to be a major reason why more U.S. skaters do not have the opportunity to compete at Senior B's. I believe Skate Canada covers their skaters' travel and accommodation expenses but not the coaches' - can anyone confirm?

Can anyone explain why the Junior scores are considered comparable and weigh in exactly the same when the required elements are different? Also, what happens to the skaters bumped out of the top 24 by Junior Worlds scores if those higher ranked Junior skaters are not moving up to Seniors?

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It is actually more difficult for Junior singles overall to reach the FS minimums, due to the extra element. It is more difficult for many juniors to reach the SP minimum because the required jump might have a lower base than the jump they's have done if there wasn't a restriction -- ie, loop is required and they'd rather do te lutz -- or if the required jump is one they can't do as a triple and have to do as a double or can't do well as a triple and would have a higher total score on the jump (and leave a better impression) if they were able to choose one on their own-- ie a 3Lo instead of a 3F or a 3F instead of a 3Flutz.

As far as the difference in lengths of the FS programs, there's nothing to stop a senior from completing the overlapping elements in the same amount of time as in a junior program, although, practically speaking, most senior programs end with a spin or two. I read an explanation that there's a point in a skate where lactic acid build-up is acute -- somewhere around the 1.5 and 2 minute mark -- and was one of the reasons for the "slow" sections in programs of old -- and it may be that seniors have an advantage in that they have more time to recover and more chance to land thins after that recovery. Plus they have more time to cram in transitions, since a CH sequence doesn't take 30 seconds.

I haven't kept track of the differences in Pairs, but in Dance, the rhythms and the CD pattern are quite different. I don't know if the junior CD pattern has ever been harder than the senior CD pattern generally -- specifically different couples have different strengths and preferences. This would be the only apples and ranges comparison technically. Aside from that, why woudn't junior scores, harder to get for the juniors

PCS-wise, the question would be if the best juniors are getting big PCS lifts by being compared to juniors and/or because they're doing the big jump-laden content that tends to boost PCS regardless of the division skated.

Junior scores aren't dropped from the SB list, and seniors who are in 25th or lower in that list don't move up, nor do they move up when skaters retire.

IThey may as well give points for national results too or only give points for ISU Grand Prix, GPF, Euros, 4CC, Worlds and Olympics; which seem the most fair.

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It wouldn't be far at all. It would be mean that if you're outside the system, you have absolutely no chance of improving your ranking. This is a big problem already and if you removed the possibility of skaters earning points at senior international events, you'd make the situation even worse.

And nobody is stopping federations from sending skaters to international events.

Is this true for all Russian and Japanese skaters? U.S. skaters' and coaches' expenses are covered by USFS, and this seems to be a major reason why more U.S. skaters do not have the opportunity to compete at Senior B's. I believe Skate Canada covers their skaters' travel and accommodation expenses but not the coaches' - can anyone confirm?

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It all depends on the federation. Polish federation pays all the expenses but from what I heard, many federations don't.

Is this true for all Russian and Japanese skaters? U.S. skaters' and coaches' expenses are covered by USFS, and this seems to be a major reason why more U.S. skaters do not have the opportunity to compete at Senior B's. I believe Skate Canada covers their skaters' travel and accommodation expenses but not the coaches' - can anyone confirm?

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I just did some Google searches to figure out how to create pivot tables in Excel, and I'm still new at this. I know I'm missing Chapman's (AUS) SP score from Crystal Skate -- the results .pdf is now missing the SP info (except the list of judges) -- and I'm sure I've got a few that are mis-categorized. These aren't the number of individual skaters: for example, all five of Australia's Dance entries were O'Brien/Merriman, but it still means trips either the skater or Federation is funding. I have no idea why Monaco is sorting to the top, either.

I counted the number of segments per discipline for each country at a Senior B. I didn't count Junior competition. Where there is a ".5" (except for Chapman), there was a withdrawal after the SP, but it still means someone showed up. If the Italian Federation is paying for all of those trips, 60 in total, or the German Federation, with 70 in total that a lot of money, and that's not counting any Juniors:

It is more difficult for many juniors to reach the SP minimum because the required jump might have a lower base than the jump they's have done if there wasn't a restriction -- ie, loop is required and they'd rather do te lutz -- or if the required jump is one they can't do as a triple and have to do as a double or can't do well as a triple and would have a higher total score on the jump (and leave a better impression) if they were able to choose one on their own-- ie a 3Lo instead of a 3F or a 3F instead of a 3Flutz.

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On the other hand there is no automatic -3 GOE for doing a double jump or a double/double combination.