A little red wine for heart health or no alcohol at all?

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Ideal_Rock

Thanks to everyone who replied to my surprise hangover thread. Still very tired today. I'd rather let the thread die so am not bumping it to say thanks to evryone, but am saying thanks here, since I have a new question which is a new thread in itself.

When I don't have alcohol, I don't miss it, and since our tolerance for alcohol just goes down and down and down as we get older, I think I might just give it up altogether. I've only ever had wine with a large meal - I've never drunk it on its own, and I never think about alcohol when I don't have it, so I don't think giving it up would be hard at all. After this hangover, it just isn't worth it, especially if you can't really predict how it will affect you. (As Maccers wrote, there are multiple factors on any given day.) I hadn't eaten or drunk much that day and I was dehydrated, and simply not paying attention, and I don't want that to happen again. Seems like the simplest and safest thing just to give it up.

However, I keep reading that moderate amounts of red wine are good for heart health. BUT, there seems to be no research on whether it's healthier to not drink at all or healthier to drink red wine moderately. We don't seem to know which option is best. We also don't know if red grape juice would do the trick, without the alcohol.

Does anyone know if zero alcohol or moderate red wine is the healthiest choice?

It's only just occurred to me that we should listen to our bodies. Ever since being very young, my body has never got on with alcohol or a lot of fats like cream and sweets (when I eat this kind of fat, it upsets my stomach - I have had IBS for many years, like my mother.)

It seems to me that our bodies probably all have things that don't agree with us - the medical term would probably be that some people metablize different kids of foods differently, and those differences are probably genetic. I read that 25% of heavy drinkers feel no hangover, and that this is probably genetically determined.

Well. I guess it's never too late to listen to the unique needs of your body. Better late than never. But does anyone know whether a little alcohol or no alcohol is best?

Among people here who used to drink, but who gave it up, I'm interested to know the motivation, if you're comfortable sharing.

Thanks!

J.

~~~~Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. You might just make yourself smile!~~~~

Ideal_Rock

I don't think anyone can say for certain one way or the other whether a little red wine is okay, the "experts" are always changing their minds, take the whole butter is the devil stance they took that they have since back pedaled on.

I gave up all drinking because from my experience it impedes weight loss, that might not be the case for everyone but since I have PCOS I have to be super vigilant about everything I eat and drink otherwise I can't keep the weight off.

I never really enjoyed the taste of any alcohol unless there was a ton of juices added in so obviously that is less than ideal. Red wine seems to work for the Italians though so perhaps in moderation it could have some positive benefits.

Ideal_Rock

When you say it works for the Italians, does that mean they live longer than other countries? But perhaps that's the Mediterranean diet, olive oil, and lots of vitamin D from the sun. It must be hard to disentangle all the factors. The French are known to consume a lot of red wine. I wonder if they are healthier, too, once obesity is controlled for. It must be hard to compare lots of people from different nations who make broadly the same diets and lifestyle choices and who are who are similar weights, but one drinks red wine moderately and the other doesn't. And then to find a large cohort like this. It seems that it would be very hard to control for all these factors and isolate the red wine factor.

Ideal_Rock

No pressure - just have a little here and there if you feel like it. if we are having good cheese and soppressata, I'd like some wine, granted DH pours me an inch of wine and I have no more of a sip or two before I'm like - "I'm done!" LOLOLOL!

Unfortunately, I've learned that I have a taste for a margarita with 1 full shot of Tequila, 2/3 shot of cointreau once a week...

(I am a farting enigma. Don't eat me or else I will blast my way out of your guts!)

Ideal_Rock

No pressure - just have a little here and there if you feel like it. if we are having good cheese and soppressata, I'd like some wine, granted DH pours me an inch of wine and I have no more of a sip or two before I'm like - "I'm done!" LOLOLOL!

Unfortunately, I've learned that I have a taste for a margarita with 1 full shot of Tequila, 2/3 shot of cointreau once a week...

Oh, man, that is unfortunate! Sounds expensive - but very louche and sophisticated! Do you also go round dressed in black and white, smoking from a foot-long silver cigarette holder? ROFL!

What's soppressata?

I'm liking the health benefits of non-alcoholic red wine very much. Here is more info about that study, with further detail about amounts. The non-alcoholic red wine still has just over a gram of ethanol per 272 ml, but since alcoholic red wine that size has at least 14g of ethanol, from what I can figure out online, I guess the 1g a day shouldn't bother me, right? http://www.peakhealthadvocate.com/4386/nonalcoholic-red-wine-health-benefits/

~~~~Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. You might just make yourself smile!~~~~

Brilliant_Rock

I think the media over simplifies the research related to alcohol and chronic disease so we end up thinking there are conflicting messages. The relationship between alcohol and chronic disease is more complex than yes or no. It depends what condition is being looked at, how many drinks you're having, your sex, your age, your general fitness, your family history etc. Eg: if you have a family history of ischemic stroke, you're sedentary, over 40 and have one drink a day several days a week, alcohol can lower your risk of stroke. HOWEVER, it also increases your risk of several cancers and hypertension.

This amount of information is difficult to convey in quick sound bites and short news line headings in the media and we end up seeing "wine is good for you" or 'wine increases risk of cancer". Theres also more research coming out showing that how you drink ( such as a binge episode every couple of months) has serious impacts on health.

Hope I didn't bore everyone; the research is out there, alcohol is a carcinogen, it impacts our health in many ways.

Ideal_Rock

When you say it works for the Italians, does that mean they live longer than other countries? But perhaps that's the Mediterranean diet, olive oil, and lots of vitamin D from the sun. It must be hard to disentangle all the factors. The French are known to consume a lot of red wine. I wonder if they are healthier, too, once obesity is controlled for. It must be hard to compare lots of people from different nations who make broadly the same diets and lifestyle choices and who are who are similar weights, but one drinks red wine moderately and the other doesn't. And then to find a large cohort like this. It seems that it would be very hard to control for all these factors and isolate the red wine factor.

Just going by my personal experience with my husband's family and other Italians I know, it seems they live a long time BUT my SIL went to Italy for a summer and she seems to think a lot their longevity can be credited to the quality of food there vs the U.S. It's no secret that many chemicals and additives that are allowed here are banned in many European countries. So it could be that or many other variables.

Ideal_Rock

Maccers, thank you for that. I found it interesting, not boring. I want to get to the bottom of what is the healthiest choice, whether alcoholic red wine, non-alcoholic red wine, or no type of wine at all. At the moment, it's looking like a good-quality non-alcoholic red wine is a good way to go.

~~~~Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. You might just make yourself smile!~~~~

Ideal_Rock

That gives you a BMI of 23.5, well within the normal range of 20-25. That's slim, especially for a guy, since more of your weight is likely to be muscle than women, and muscle takes up less room than fat.

~~~~Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. You might just make yourself smile!~~~~

Ideal_Rock

I wouldn't start drinking red wine for the health benefits. My greek grandmother was very healthy and active until she died in her 90's. She ate a Mediterranean diet, but other than at holidays once or twice a year did not drink at all. OTOH I enjoy red wine so I'm never going to stop drinking it! I have heard drinking red grape juice gives you a lot of the same health benefits if you wanted to do that. As my father put it, everything in moderation. It is the sum total of your lifestyle, including being moderate in how things are consumed that affects your health.

Super_Ideal_Rock

That gives you a BMI of 23.5, well within the normal range of 20-25. That's slim, especially for a guy, since more of your weight is likely to be muscle than women, and muscle takes up less room than fat.

Ideal_Rock

No pressure - just have a little here and there if you feel like it. if we are having good cheese and soppressata, I'd like some wine, granted DH pours me an inch of wine and I have no more of a sip or two before I'm like - "I'm done!" LOLOLOL!

Unfortunately, I've learned that I have a taste for a margarita with 1 full shot of Tequila, 2/3 shot of cointreau once a week...

Oh, man, that is unfortunate! Sounds expensive - but very louche and sophisticated! Do you also go round dressed in black and white, smoking from a foot-long silver cigarette holder? ROFL!

What's soppressata?

I'm liking the health benefits of non-alcoholic red wine very much. Here is more info about that study, with further detail about amounts. The non-alcoholic red wine still has just over a gram of ethanol per 272 ml, but since alcoholic red wine that size has at least 14g of ethanol, from what I can figure out online, I guess the 1g a day shouldn't bother me, right? http://www.peakhealthadvocate.com/4386/nonalcoholic-red-wine-health-benefits/

Super_Ideal_Rock

I wouldn't start drinking red wine for the health benefits. My greek grandmother was very healthy and active until she died in her 90's. She ate a Mediterranean diet, but other than at holidays once or twice a year did not drink at all. OTOH I enjoy red wine so I'm never going to stop drinking it! I have heard drinking red grape juice gives you a lot of the same health benefits if you wanted to do that. As my father put it, everything in moderation. It is the sum total of your lifestyle, including being moderate in how things are consumed that affects your health.

Ideal_Rock

I wouldn't start drinking red wine for the health benefits. My greek grandmother was very healthy and active until she died in her 90's. She ate a Mediterranean diet, but other than at holidays once or twice a year did not drink at all. OTOH I enjoy red wine so I'm never going to stop drinking it! I have heard drinking red grape juice gives you a lot of the same health benefits if you wanted to do that. As my father put it, everything in moderation. It is the sum total of your lifestyle, including being moderate in how things are consumed that affects your health.

I agree. I do somewhat enjoy wine when taken with a nice meal, including red, but the truth is that alcohol has never really agreed with me. I don't really enjoy it, like some. I get tipsy very easily - always have - and a headache next day on just two glasses with food, and I don't miss it when I don't have it. Sometimes I've wondered if I'm allergic to alcohol. My whole family have never been drinkers, and I drank hardly anything at all until I was in my mid-twenties. I have also read studies that say not to take up drinking for the health benefits if you don't currently drink. It seems like the non-alcoholic red wine provides health benefits.

I will look into the grape juice. But then, fruit juice is loaded with sugar. Perhaps better just to eat red grapes! That chimes with other advice which says dark and brightly-colored fruit and veg is especially good for you.

~~~~Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. You might just make yourself smile!~~~~

Super_Ideal_Rock

No. I do somewhat enjoy wine when taken with a nice meal, including red, but the truth is that alcohol has never really agreed with me. I don't really enjoy it, like some. I get tipsy very easily - always have - and a headache next day on just two glasses with food, and I don't miss it when I don't have it. Sometimes I've wondered if I'm allergic to alcohol. My whole family have never been drinkers, and I drank hardly anything at all until I was in my mid-twenties. I have also read studies that say not to take up drinking for the health benefits if you don't currently drink. It seems like the non-alcoholic red wine provides health benefits.

Ideal_Rock

Really? I feel like one glass of wine with food impairs me, even a little - always has done. I remember being about 22 and at this party with some older ladies, and one of them just could not believe that I was unable to drink two large glasses of red wine and then drive home. I weighed about 112 pounds then, and could hold my alcohol even less than now. There was quite some pressure to drink that second glass, but I didn't, because I knew there's no way I could have driven myself home. But she just wouldn't/couldn't believe me. Maybe she had the kind of genetics where she could drink that amount and not feel it, and didn't know that others can't do so. "shrugs"

Many years later, luckily we have some nice restaurants within walking distance, our town is so small.

~~~~Never be afraid to laugh at yourself. You might just make yourself smile!~~~~

Super_Ideal_Rock

My internist always tells us every year that alcohol is "empty calories". And there is no doubt it is hard on the liver and other organs. I also don't particularly enjoy drinking (except for tequila straight up that is and a few other exceptions) so usually I don't drink. Maybe a few times a year and that's that. I say if you don't love drinking and don't love the effects then don't do it but if you want to drink do so in moderation or less. I am sorry you suffered a bad hangover Jambalaya and hope you are feeling all better now!

And Stephanie Lynn is correct. Alcohol does impede weight loss so if you are trying to lose weight abstain altogether IMO.
Alcohol also raises your Hemoglobin A1 C so something to think about.

“Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened.”
― Anatole France

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