Do you think we’re facing chaos now we’re leaving the EU?

Jun 24, 2016

By Silversurfers Editor

After months of debate, scaremongering, polls and confusion the decision has been made for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union.

An estimated 46,499,537 people were entitled to take part in the vote and around 72% turned out – a record number for a UK poll, and it was dubbed the biggest decision the country have taken for a generation.

It was only the third nationwide referendum in UK history and comes after a four-month battle for votes between the Leave and Remain campaigns.

This topic has been top of the agenda since 20th February when David Cameron announced a referendum and now our choice has been made.

So how do you feel? Is the outcome what you wanted? Do you think we’re facing chaos now we’re leaving the EU? Are you happy with the result? Do you feel relieved it is over? Do you think David Cameron was right to call the Referendum in the first place?

UPDATE AT 08:15 BST:

How do you feel now that David Cameron has resigned as Prime Minister?

Three weeks or so ago I watched an interview with a member of the EU who is responsible for trying to balance the books.

Asked what the EU would do as our contribution will be less than expected due to the fall in the pound he said it will have to be managed somehow, when pressed further by the interviewer he said it is unfair for the other 27 countries to have to pay more because of our decision to leave the EU which triggered the fall. He said they wouldn't be very happy as it had resulted in 2 billion shortfall which was our fault.

Then stated that perhaps the UK should make up the shortfall.

The interviewer said, but the other year when our economy was doing really well we had to pay an additional 1.9 billion to the EU. To which he replied this is only fair!

I am sure he was making mischief as he was saying these things with a twinkle in his eye, but confirms to me the EU think they have a never ending supply of money all the time we are a member.

We have no reason to believe the scaremongers.we traded with the rest of the world for a very very long time and they want to trade with us now.Several members of the European market are still desperate to trade with us.We never joined to be run by a bunch of unelected beaurocrats who have made theirselves very wealthy and powerful and ignore the wishes of a lot of people

Theresa May needs to stop talking and start doing something. That's what Cameron did: talk, talk, talk. She needs to take action and act like a leader, not a follower. Britain no longer needs 'permission' to act.

The perceived loss of our Sovereignty was one of the primary reasons that many people voted “Leave” on 23rd June. Yesterday we all witnessed British Law being applied by British Judges in a British Court.British Sovereignty working as it should.
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The ruling made in the High Court was a legal opinion, not a political decision. And yet the red top newspapers are not applauding this demonstration of Sovereignty. They are in fact headlining quite the reverse. The Daily Mail, The Express, and The Sun are choosing to mislead their readers by claiming the ruling was political.
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It seems that the red top newspapers have no hesitation in being hypocritical, no hesitation in spreading lies, untruths and anxiety to sell newspapers.

Britain has one of the best economies in the world and will prosper away from the inefficient, undemocratic EU.
There will be no problems obtaining good trading arrangements with Europe as we are one of their big customers. They need us as much as we need them.
We will be a sovereign nation once again and will not be subjected to laws and petty regulations imposed on this independent country.
We have everything good to look forward to.
Inevitably there will be disturbance to the economy as we go through the change period of uncertainty but it will be worth it.

After two world wars which killed millions, left behind mayhem, broken families, tortured souls and trauma felt today by the old soldiers who survived. Maybe this is the reason they voted to get out of the EU. Probably had something to do with never again having to be under the Jackboot.

The EU beginnings:
Together , they planned to control Europe taking a different route, Brussels EU.
An IG Farben letter specifies a common European currency, common European law, and even a European court system – all of that under the control of the Nazi/IG Farben coalition.
Hans Globke had been co-author of the Nuremberg racial laws and had also been responsible for writing the new laws of the Greater European “Reich” in the countries occupied by the Nazis during World War II.

The records of the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal document that Bayer, BASF and Hoechst gave more than 80 million Reichsmark to the Nazis and their sub-organizations. In return for this “investment” IG Farben ( made Zyclon B for the extermination of the Jews ) took over the chemical, pharmaceutical and petrochemical industries in the countries occupied during WWII with the ultimate goal to create and dominate a “European Market” form Lisbon to Sofia.

Walter Hallstein (17 November 1901 – 29 March 1982) was a German academic, diplomat, and politician. He was the first president of the Commission of the European Economic Community and one of the founding fathers of the European Union.

From the beginning, one of the main financiers of the “Brussels EU” was the West German Government. On April 24, 1964, the key architects of the “Brussels EU” – all of them active members of the IG Farben/Nazi coalition during WWII – met at the “Brussels EU” headquarters to stake their claims on the future of the European continent. Apparently they were so sure about their success to take control over Europe in their 3rd attempt, via the “Brussels EU”.

EU Commission President Walter Hallstein – the Architect of the “Brussels EU”
German Chancellor Ludwig Erhard
Ludger Westrick, Head of the German Chancellery
Karl Carstens, German Secretary of State for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Karl-Günther von Hase, Head of the Press and Information Service of the German government

Linking the thoughts and plans of middle ranking Third Reich (1943-45) politicians to the 23rd June 2016 referendum is stretching your argument too far. If you want to look back to the 40s a more valid starting point would be the end of the Second World War in 1945. A war in which over 70 million people died.

As the war came to an end the world’s politicians were discussing a future where a war on this scale would never happen again. Amongst those politicians was Winston Churchill. Churchill was openly expressing an opinion that the only way to prevent another war in Europe and to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering was the creation of an open border United States of Europe. It is on record, that in a speech in Zurich in 1946, he publically stated that opinion.

70 years later we seem to be entering a period when closed borders, concrete walls, barbed wire fences and the prevention of freedom of movement are being planned as the way forward for society. The plans for walls, borders and the prevention of freedom of movement are being driven by the rise in separatism, which at its core wants to separate certain groups of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion or gender.

Common sense tells me that that the best way to minimize the likelihood of war is to remove land borders and trade borders. The removal of borders helps do away with inequalities, reduces unemployment and most importantly reduces the risk of land wars and trade wars which history tells us inevitably lead to military wars.

I think the problem in removing all borders you would get an Osmosis effect of people migrating to rich countries which would have major issues and then a huge backlash-look at places like France and the rise of Trump in the USA wanting to kick out all immigrants

The thing about osmosis is that it works both ways. Leaving the EU will almost certainly prevent many of the world's brightest and the best from coming to the UK. But it will also prevent our brightest and best from gaining skills and experience by working overseas and then bringing those skills back home.

A more immediate reality. The collapse of sterling has been good for exporters but it is causing a problem in the in the NHS, Agriculture, Construction and service industries. Employees who are not UK citizens and working here legally have seen their savings reduce in value by 20% and it is costing them 20% more to send money back to their country of birth.

In these sectors, employers are experiencing a high rate of resignations from employees who are not UK citizens. Anecdotal evidence is that they are returning home or taking jobs in Holland and Germany etc. To make matters worse the number of job applications from people who are not UK citizens has fallen to an all-time low.

It would be ironic if the “Leave Campaign” call for a massive reduction in immigration into the UK was achieved by simply collapsing the value of Sterling. And of course, with that reduction in immigration the NHS, Agriculture, Construction and all the service industries would go into meltdown and with it the whole of our economy.

I do not think we will get a meltdown its a bit dramatic especially as the Bank of England predicts the economy will pick up next year. I did not vote to leave and still do not think it is a good idea. The problem is politicians do not listen to the voters who said cut down on immigration and we do not want a federal superstate.

yes I totally agree with you on that case but we just need to get on with this and stop the uncertainty. the problem in the UK is we do not make decisions-look at the Chinese they just get on with decisions

The BBC and other EU shills would have you believe that, and if they continue to talk the country down. Together with the traitorous MPs looking towards the EU gravy train doing all they can to ignore the will will of the people, it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I so wish Theresa May would call a snap election, and that way the people may just get an MP that does what we want them to do, and not just to further their own interests.

According to Chaos Theory; No political system can ever be perfect, because to bring about order there always has to be an element of chaos.
It remains to be seen just how synergy-oriented European leaders will be in months ahead. Edward Lorenz’s work with chaos theory and “sensitive dependence on initial conditions” is often referred to as the “Butterfly Effect” based on his question, “If a butterfly flaps its wings in Brazil will it create a tornado in Texas?”

Britain has now flapped its wings.

“Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
(Winston Churchill House of Commons, 11 November 1947)

This was not a revolution. A revolution is when there is a forcible overthrow of a national government. We did not get that.
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What we did get is a new PM leading government with a small majority that is split between remain in the EU and leave the EU.
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Democracy in the UK is a long established process where UK citizens vote to have their opinions and values represented by a member of parliament. The UK does not have a history or process where decisions are made by referendum.
The 23rd of June 2016 was a “first past the post” preference vote by individual members of society. It has not been passed into law by parliament.
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However, the current government has decided to try and put in place the vague fantasies that the leave campaigners put forward. The problem now is that the civil service does not have the systems to put these vague fantasies into place. So getting on with anything is just not possible.

I assume you are not an all-girl band, a masonic historian or a film production company. That being the case can you move your statement forward a bit and tell us how and when order and direction will emerge from this chaos.

Assuming you are replying to my post Roof Top Crow?, nope! not an all-girl band, or the other two.
I am watching and waiting to see which direction this world chaos,Political chaos and the chaos which will be caused by the imminent collapse of Deutsche Bank will take. Like dominoes..... crash!
Of course Brexit will be blamed.
I wait with bated breath to see what new laws and restrictions will emerge from this. Maybe it is a cunning plan to break down the old order, and bring in A New Order that Politicians world wide are fixated on?. Or is it all just the folly of feckless leaders.

Not so sure that Deutsche Bank will collapse.
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I think the world is now waiting on the outcome of elections in the USA. If Trump is successful then confidence in the dollar will collapse and the economy of China and the Western World will be in real trouble.
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The UK represents less than 1% of the world population. In practice, our machinations regarding Brexit mean very little to the rest of the world.
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The folly of feckless leaders. You are probably correct.

Conference Season
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We heard promises and commitments at the Labour Party conference. The promise of jobs for the post-industrial areas of the UK is totally unrealistic. Industries that create mass employment have gone to the low-cost areas of the world and will not be coming back. Talk of commitment to massive investment in infrastructure cannot be backed up with details of where the money will come from. It was admitted by a Labour party spokesman that they have not talked any lenders in Europe or anywhere else in the world.
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We are starting to hear promises and commitments at the Conservative Party conference. Yesterday it was a promise that the 27 EU countries will give us a better trade deal than they have between themselves. No explanation of why 455 million people in the trading club of 27 countries would give the one country of 65 million that now wants to leave the trading club a better deal than they have between themselves. A team of 27 against a team of 1; just ask yourselves who is the favourite to come out as the winner.

Here in the UK, we already know that the government will be employing thousands and thousands of new civil servants to sort out our departure from the EU. And once we have left they will need even more civil servants to cover the jobs that would have been done by the EU and to negotiate trade deals with the remaining 27 countries in the EU and rest of the world.
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Multiply that by the other 27 countries also withdrawing from EU membership and it looks like an admin and social nightmare.
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Or maybe not, it might be that an implosion of the kind you visualise would resolve the European unemployment problem. It would create millions and millions of new civil servant jobs all over the Europe. Initially to negotiate the withdrawal from the EU and then to negotiate trade deals with all the other 27 countries and the rest of the world.

I am concerned that our new PM , unlike Maggie Thatcher, will not be able to stand up to the EU. As a Home Secretary she was not very effective and is not eager to set a date to start negotiations . Cameron tried and failed to get any success , in fact he was talked into putting
millions into the kitty to pay Turkey to take in immigrants from Greece
which was overloaded. Cameron and Osborne even lent 1 million Euros to the EU Bank !!!

It will need a very knowledgeable Team to negotiate with the EU , Merkel andJuncker will not want to lose their top contributor to the EU.

Hi Wilf, Germany has 1.5 million immigrants and having a lot of trouble with the boy immigrants molesting the girls. Sweden , who went out of their way to make their immigrants welcome has the same problem.

IInitially Merkel took in so many to help with the labour needed in
Germany, that is not the case any more. Several Members of the EU have not made any plans to take in migrants or donate to the kitty.

Merkel and Juncker will not make it easy for Britain to leave and May will need to have a very strong negotiating team, plus no interference from big Business , you are right the small Countries
are finding it hard to cope .....is there any Country that has a healthybank balance???

YES, thanks to all these numpties who voted to leave the EU we British are going to be in for ever more. Manufacturing companies have to dig deep to find new business and will be competing with all the rubbish countries who will undercut our every move.
The farming community will not receive the subsidies they need to keep going.
The man in the street will need bigger pockets to pay for increased prices for everything to do with every days .

On 23rd June 2016 17.4 million people or 26.9 % of the UK population voted to leave the EU. Voting to leave the EU has triggered a constitutional change and commenced financial changes that will affect all 65 million UK citizens.
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Incredibly the decision by 26.9 % of the population to vote “leave” was not based on information about what would happen to the UK if we left the EU. This was simply because the Leave party did not have any information to give us.
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The leaders of the Leave party knew full well that voting “leave” would trigger a change in the constitution and a vote to leave the EU would present a fundamental risk to the financial future of the UK. But the leaders of the Leave party had not given a moment's thought to how leaving the EU would be managed.
They had not given any thought to who would carry out this work or what the consequences would be if we voted to leave the EU.
I think we can describe this lack of thought and planning by the Leave party as negligent and totally irresponsible.
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At the end of the Second World War, the UK was destitute and remained that way until we joined what is now called the EU. Since joining the EU the United Kingdom has become the 2nd wealthiest country in EU membership and the 5th wealthiest country in the world. This wealth has created political stability, social stability in a society where 13 % of the population was born overseas, health care for the whole nation, education for the whole country and a standard of living that up until now has been the envy of most of the rest of the world.
Much of this wealth has come from our long-term trading relationships with the EU, Japan, the USA and others. In the past week, all three said much the same thing “we respect your vote on 23rd June but do not expect to have the same agreement when it comes to renegotiation”
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We all know that the UK is far from perfect. We all know that we need to keep trying to make it better, but compared with the rest of the world, the UK had it just about right. But for 26.9 % of the population, this was not enough and they voted to risk most of what the UK had worked so hard to achieve in the last 50 years and they have asked the government to start all over again.
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So in starting all over again we should consider what has happened so far.

“Brexit means Brexit” is meaningless. We might as well say “Walking means Walking” or “Gardening means Gardening”.
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The G20 meeting produced some negative statements from our soon to be ex-business partners.
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The PM announced that points-based immigration system that the Leave party and Farage had based so much of their baseless and fatuous argument upon was not going to be used.
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David Davis the Brexit Minister stood at the dispatch box and said absolutely nothing. Later in the day, he had his knuckles rapped by the PM for going off message about our future relationship with the EU.
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Australia made it very very clear they will not negotiate with the UK until we leave the EU.

Yes all looking a bit woolly now! I suspect we will leave the EU but with a lot of our trade agreements intact...a very watered down immigration policy and really not much changed at all! Bit of a waste of time for everyone really!

I voted to leave. I have thought long and hard as to whether this was right or wrong but am still convinced that we as a nation are better off without the dictats of a body of un-elected, uncontrollable, openly federalist beaurocrats.
The comments made in this debate more often than relate to how our economy will be affected. While this is important (and incidentally trade is now looking up) what is more important in my view is the British way of life. We are an island nation (close to Europe but not really of it or its values) and that has always been our strength. We have the strength, expertise, and hopefully the will to succeed.

I think it will need good leadership to see us through the changeover ......we haven't got that.!! Already the Minister responsible is saying what needs to be done with the 8 BILLION
rebate from the EU. No mention of the NHS which needs a good overhaul and investment , otherwise we will lose all the dedicated Doctors and Nurses to Private Companies.

wiccan-woman said correctly that the due process by where parliament has to vote on the Brexit seems to have been forgotten. Why has the legal process stopped? The RF was not binding legally, and although if parliament does vote for it, (and that is the most likely outcome) then at least we can exit legally and not just pushed out by a process that nearly half the country did not vote for.

In science and research the damage has already started.
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Sterling against the Euro and the Dollar.

The collapse in value of sterling against the Euro and the Dollar has lead to a bonanza for the investment industry based outside of the sterling area. They are doing two things:

1. Buying UK businesses at a massive discount. ARM Holdings are a very good example of a UK company being bought at a discount.
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2. Buying shares at a massive discount to true value. Then as the sterling recovers they will sell the shares, take the profit, and move it out of UK jurisdiction.

How can we purport to be a multicultural, inclusive and progressive outward looking internationalist society if we adopt an isolationist, inward looking parochial attitude driven by reactionary knee jerk nationalistic xenophobia and narrow minded bigotry. I did not choose this, these are not standards or principles I want to live by. I have the right to choose and not to be railroaded by a government for whom I did not vote and a faction of society with whom I have absolutely no desire to be associated. What has happened to the legal democratic process under which this decision is required to be considered? Why has parliament abandoned it’s obligation to parliamentary due process to take under consideration the advisory opinion offered by the outcome of this referendum in favour of the apparent “done deal” we are all being asked to swallow?
David Cameron may well have felt that he was defeated and so should resign, however I would argue that as the new PM, Teresa May has a moral, constitutional and parliamentary duty to vigorously pursue due process to the letter.
The debate must continue and the opinion garnered from the referendum taken into consideration in the context of the political and socio-economic issues. It is becoming increasingly clear, almost a month on, that the effect of a Brexit is and will continue to have an enormously negative impact on the future of this country. Given the reaction of the rest of the EU partners, including the call from some, in light our referendum, for widespread reform of the EU organisation. It would surely be more responsible to consider being part of that objective than to simply leave.
I agree there are huge issues in terms of EU bureaucracy and their obscenely flagrant profligacy; this runaway gravy-train needs to be derailed in favour of transparency, accountability and efficiency.
In a world where corruption, greed,terror and hatred are causing our fragile planet to implode, we have the opportunity to be part of a coalition of nations which stand for something altogether more worthy, an altruism that is a beacon of cooperation and inclusion, an example of all that is true, honest, good and safe, a means of paying it forward and creating a sustainable future for our children & grandchildren. I have two children whom I have brought up to be inclusive, open minded, unbiased, fair and thoughtful in every aspect of life. I have brought them up with the notion that they have rights and options to live, work and study anywhere in Europe. At 16 & 17 (18 in a month), when they are just starting out in their adult lives all those options are suddenly being withdrawn and they have no voice to effect change for themselves and given that this is a one off choice, no option to revisit this decision in the future . They are European by birthright, they have the right to choose.
I’m a Scottish Spaniard living in England, I am European. I have the right to choose and I believe we are better together.

I agree we are much better together and I voted to remain in. My view is that the top echelons of the Eu are so arrogant and bureaucratic that they are blind to what the Brits wanted. All most people in the UK were saying was limit immigration to a manageable proportion-say 100,000 net incoming per annum not 320,000. The UK has gone from 52-65 million in a generation. The other features of the EU are all excellent-trade- finance etc. I doubt if people like Junker have ever had a normal job if they had and knew what normal folk wanted they would have had a compromise

Now we have to trust that those who have been handed the reigns of political power, will get on with the job of dealing with a new and exciting Britain.

All the childish whining, backstabbing, sulking and scaremongering in the world will not change the fact that we will dust ourselves off and forge ahead.

Hundreds of thousands of men and women died for this country and all of us who are here today so that we might live without being bullied into submission when the going gets tough. Let us stand behind those who have been given the task of leading us forward to a "better Britain".

Well put twinkletoes1. The decision has been made by the people. Those against the decision seem to have personal financial reasons for staying in Europe, but really, do you honestly believe Europe will stop trading with us? Course they won't as they have to much to lose too. Instead of all this bickering as twinkletoes says, let get behind Britain Plc and make it Great Britain Plc.

Don't worry Hattie, if the Crow had watched Paxo interview certain members of the EEC brigade, he would have jumped off his rooftop pretty quickly, and would stop crowing about the wonders of that nest of vipers.

I think the Eu is a bureaucratic mess but they must be laughing at UK PLC. What a joke in the last 2 weeks. We vote for Brexit with Boris and Gove. They quit. Farage quits as he has "done his bit"...ie ruined the country. May becomes the PM and nothing changes-oh yes it does the economy is ruined and the £ has fallen through the floor. I can see a £1 to $1 soon!

Just when we thought the jingoistic nonsense of the referendum was behind us, we now have Andrea Leadsom. She said this today:

“Let us unite and be prosperous”
Andrea, that is what we have at the moment, we are prosperous and united with 500 million people in the EU.

“We want tariff-free trade agreements with the EU”
Andrea, we already have that. Because of you, we are now having to renegotiate this for the future well-being of the UK.

“We can be the greatest nation on earth”
Andrea that was a belief in the 18th century when Britain ruled the waves and we had an Empire.
That time has passed and the world has moved on. We are already a major influence in the world but with 0.88% of the world population, these words are just an empty promise.

Ah, Roof Top, as a well experienced farmer I smell the BS, even before clicking on this page.

Let's, for a moment, look at your post. You reference five hundred million. It was three hundred and forty seven million people when we joined. We turned our backs on a Commonwealth of two billion plus people who wanted our goods and services, and could pay for them, for a measly three hundred odd million who had no need of us or our output. I'm not the business man,but you are. Which market would you choose?

You think we are united and prosperous within Europe? Get the shades off man, we remain the poor relation. Tell me otherwise, but I need some facts.

Roof top, a man much wiser than you or I, but of my blood, said, what comes around goes around. Solomon, a great wise man. We were great and we will be great again, in terms, but never in the EU!

Roof Top, this is the start of something great. We both may have enough life left to see it. But will you admit, sorry chaps, I got it wrong? Come on here and eat humble pie? I think you will have that courage, but only because I've come to respect you.

I hate to say it but Brexit is turning politically into a bigger mess than I thought it would. Boris and Gove were supposed to lead it. They have gone and now Leadsom has quit (what a great leader she would have made-not!) and we have May who didn't even want Brexit? confused.com......

Yes it is a mess, John Herb, but what we're seeing in both parties is the fruition of many years of division, unrequited rivalries and fear mongering. Brett was but the catalyst and I think it's well past time seething mass which is Westminster politics was sorted out.

Solomon, a man who presided over extraordinary and uncertain times wrote: there is a time to tear down and a time to upbuild.

My fear for a very long time, is that this revolution will quickly devolve to the streets. I think people feel they have been suppressed, ignored or overidden for so long they will take the opportunity to revolt. It's happened in other countries with disastrous. Once started it probably would be unstoppable, well, at least until the anger and venom has been vented.

If we must have change to our very roots, let's do it the Czech way, the Velvet Revolution. Not a drop of blood was shed.

I was in that country short after the Velvet Revolution, just after Vaclav Havel had been installed as President. Not at all like Hungary in 1956 or Prague in 1968.

Best of all would be no revolution but as one voice I doubt there's much I could do about it.

The question was " Do you think we’re facing chaos now we’re leaving the EU"

The signs of this chaos are already there. In politics we have no leader, business has stopped investing, in the city, there are massive winners and losers, these are all very clear signs of instability and chaos.

You just have to look at the political commentators on the TV channels and in the press. They are all telling us we are living in extraordinary and uncertain times.

I would still like a Remain voter to give me a convincing reason to hand over, our Legal System, and 100's of pages of legislation for border control, consumer affairs, employment, Human Rights etc, etc, etc.

R.T.C. When we entered EU none of the above was mentioned.
Actually, last night i watched 'Paxman in Brussels' on Utube now, that is really, really, scary, maybe some younger people should watch it.

At the end of the day I think it was about immigration. All the EU had to do was to have a sensible policy for the UK and we would still be in-its that simple but trying to get 28 countries to agree to anything is a nightmare

Your simplistic view of the corrupt EU is wrong!
People wanted out because the EU leaders are unelected undemocratic control freaks, who want and are creating a Russian style Politburo behind our back!
Its domination via the back door!Read up on it,its all out there.
Also remember Merkel herself saying Multiculturalism does not work!!that is rich coming from her and its too little too late!

I agree with Hattie, my grandaughter who is shortly graduating, is scared that she will not be able to obtain employment because of the exit vote!! This is absolute cobblers and presumably the remain camp are just stirring things up to create unrest and further their own ends [wanting another vote !]

Being ex R.A.F. I would just like to comment that had it not been for the help from Polish pilots who were able to show certain tactics in defeating the luftwaffe, we would not be having an in or out vote to-day !!

Now that it's over. The Remain voters seem to be mainly young people. What makes me sad, these young people appear to very, very scared that they might have to stand on their own 2 feet and would rather hand over the responsibility for their lives to EU.

You seem to have forgotten that our economy was in ruins before we joined the EU. The UK joined because it was our only way out of the problem. It worked, we became the 2nd strongest economy in the EU and 5th strongest in the world.

48% of the country voted to stay in the EU. Logically that includes old and young alike. It is not a question of being scared. The reality is simple, by voting to leave we have inflicted a huge amount of damage on our current economy and the economy of the future generations.

It will be for the younger generations to try and put the UK back together again. I can see from your post that you were prepared to be part of the vote that caused such damage but you are not choosing to help the recovery.

What worries me most is the growing xenophobia. I see a shocking increase of racism and openly bigoted attacks on people for merely being or perceived as being non British-born.
I also see an increase in homelessness. I fear our government is not committed to increasing social housing and care of the most vulnerable in our society, or even of people who are not vulnerable, but not rich enough to have access to further education, child care, care for the elderly, disabled, or use public transport.
The other worry I have is the loss of funding for science and education projects. I fear we might be becoming more intolerant and closed.
So, yes, I fear more chaos, and Britain becoming less the beautiful, green, open friendly land I found when I came here more than 40 years ago.

Lagarto, let's get away from Tony Blair's corruption of the English language and the politically correct path he put in place alongside that. I hope we've all grown up after the disastrous Blair years.

Xenophobia means a 'fear,' of foreigners or things alien to our culture or norms. If you mean a growing 'fear,' of foreigners is arising in the UK, you're probably correct. But let's be precise here. It is a fear, in some parts of the UK, of what non UK nationals are doing, or have done to our country. And that with the blessing of our elected governments! Houses, jobs, school places and even ethnic shops preclude our own people. This very day we had a delivery from Amazon by a driver who had no English! Doesn't that tell you something is out of balance here?So many areas of East Anglia are now 'no-go areas.' I know, I live here.

Now let's deal with your other allegation - racism. Again, this is a Blairite corruption of the English language, one which served his purposes very well. And, it seems, still does!

The English people traditionally have been accepting of migrants from other nations. I am from migrant stock. Polish; we came over almost two hundred years ago. But we changed our ways and integrated into English ways; changed our name, move our religion a step forward to Christianity and built lives here. In fact, I've been married for almost eighteen years to another of the same background, and that without knowing it before we married!

Generally, Post War migrants have not integrated with the English, no, they live their lives and we ours. Separately. This is not the way forward for any nation, because it ceases to be a nation. It then becomes a people divided against themselves. That is a recipe for disaster, which I think it what we are facing. Even I, as a fairly liberal, fairly moderate man, a man concerned more with peace than conflict, sees ahead. So sadly, I see it an unavoidable.

Please allow me to tell you, I am not a nationalist, neither do I belong to any political movement, nor have sympathies with any of them. I am an individual who has lived in several parts of the UK and outside it.

Migration of any sort on the scale we have today, well, it doesn't work out. It will result in major problems. Migration on a smaller scale will work out, with the good will of the English people which is always in place.

I do not fear xenophobia or racism, well, in the terms as you use them, because they're just meaningless Blairite words, words without meaning in real life. But I do fear this newly liberated nation's response to mass migration. I will not be a part of that response, nor do I condone it. Indeed, elsewhere in the British press I have written extensively against a violent response. But just maybe, I can understand it. And just maybe I may empathise, if not enter into it.

Yes, this nation is in turmoil, upheaval. I don't like that fact, I can't condone it, am not part of it, but, having travelled the UK extensively I do have some sympathy.

If you know anything of English history you will know the English people, from time to time, rise up against their kings/governments or parliaments. Each time the result has been a change of direction for the state, and the people.

Well said Lionel,I think we are talking to trolls !
The clue lies in their lack of knowledge and the fact they believe all they hear and see.
I bet not one of them reads other countrys daily newspapers!

I know the following post is a bit geeky, but it is something we should all be aware of.

An MP was on the TV last night and he very blithely said that because the FTSE 100 was recovering it proved that voting leave would not damage the UK economy or affect our cost of living. He did not mention the FTSE 250

It was the classic smoke and mirrors statement.

The FTSE 100 is heavily geared towards the worldwide economy of oil, mining, banking, energy and so on. The UK is, in reality, a small part of the world economy. ( NB. This should not be confused with the wealth of the UK) The FTSE 100 plays a very small part in our day to day cost of living.

The FTSE 250 is different. It is far more domestically geared. It comprises of many household names we all know and there are very few oil, banking and energy businesses listed. The performance of the FTSE 250 businesses plays a very big part in our day to day cost of living.
In the past week, the FTSE 250 has performed very badly when compared against similar world indices. The forecasters are all agreed that voting to leave the EU will have a negative effect on the FTSE 250.

As I have said above the FTSE 250 reflects how we live and the cost of living for all of us.

The inevitability of voting to leave is that the majority of FTSE 250 businesses will continue to perform badly and this will increase our cost of living.

Roof top Crow you give Crows a bad image!
Were you aware they are highly intelligent birds!
You need to pick a more suitable name for yourself.
I had a crow (injured) for many years and it spoke far more sence than you,and it didn't get its information off the TV.

Crows. You cannot compare the intelligence shown in birds with the intelligence and reasoning shown in homo sapiens (Latin for a wise man).
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Can you let me know what you think of my post, but, before you respond, can you have a second look at my 2nd paragraph. You will see that I was challenging and disagreeing with a statement that was made on TV.

You are clearly a very astute and aware man; a man to be admired, perhaps. But it seems you are also naive. I understand why you treasure cold and hard facts and figures but ...

Would you please tell me ... where in the history of this nation, this people, has advancement been accomplished without some pain, some suffering or deprivation? This night, I can't think of one.

We have been without a German yoke around our necks for seventy years. Got to agree on that, surely? But that came at the price of death, suffering and much humiliation.

My question is, why are you, we, so unwilling to suffer a little (far less than our parents) in order to right a monstrous wrong perpetrated on the British people by Edward Heath? Or, if you prefer, what is so special about this generation of youngsters that they are so deep afraid of being just discomfited, let alone having to suffer in a small way?

You see, Roof Top, in the great scheme of things, you and I count for nothing. Now that's a sobering thought, isn't it?

Lionel.
As always you chose to open your post with a point of view written to ensure I respond.

I do not treasure facts and figures but there is no other way of measuring or gauging society. Facts and figures can be used be used to support a lie and they can be used, to tell the truth.

The lie.
We have recently seen how the distortion of facts and figures can be used to manipulate society. The leave campaign made the claim or should I say told an absolute lie, that £350 million a week will be paid to the NHS if society votes to leave the EU.
The truth.
This week we have been given figures by the Bank of England describing what the effect of voting leave had had on the UK economy. Mark Carney said:
Initially, traders and investors saw heavy falls, but then there was a recovery with the FTSE 100 moving back above where it had closed last Thursday. The FTSE 250 index - which contains more UK-focused companies - still remains clearly lower than its pre-referendum level.

There are times in the history of the United Kingdom where the action of other nations has brought poverty and suffering to our nation. The list is long and on this particular day, it is quite poignant that we should be having this conversation.

This time, it is different. I cannot think of a time in history where the UK has chosen to vote for a slow process of long term self-harm.

Your statement about Germany has the feel of xenophobia and I have not seen that in your views before.

Germany is a description of the land within prescribed borders. German people live within those borders. In my lifetime German people have absorbed the collapse of the USSR by accommodating East Germany into its society. In my lifetime German people have been at the forefront in absorbing millions of dispossessed refugees.

On this last point, and to our eternal shame, the UK has done very little to help resolve this crisis and please do not remind me of the 10,000 tents we sent to Turkey and the 20 people we resettled into the Outer Hebrides.

It is a fact that you and I as members of the middle classes have the luxury of knowing that our life will not be changed by this decision to leave the EU. We both of us have enough time in our everyday lives to be able to sit at our keyboards and not have the pressure of work and survival hovering over our heads.

I do not understand what you mean by needing to suffer. There is no nobility or righteousness in suffering, it brings sadness and misery to adults and children alike.

Not sure what you mean by this generation of youngsters. From the comfort of my home I see them working in charities in the poorest parts of the world. I see them working in care homes and in nursing. I see them joining the armed forces and risking and losing their lives overseas. I see them starting businesses and representing the UK as world leaders in the IT industries.

Roof Top, how could you think such a thing of me, that I should head my post so as you would feel a need to reply? Perish the thought!

Well, almost!

I apologise for not replying earlier. My wife has MS and her care comes before all other matters. No, I declined state benefits for my role in her life - it's a matter of devotion to a greatly loved one.

Now to the matter in hand. The time lapse plays into my hand. I've read this evening six powerful trading nations, including the USA want a trade deal with the UK. We've never have a trade deal with any of them except Australia. Now they are queuing up.

In spite of Obama saying we will be at the back of the queue they are now heading the queue!

I looked up CIA World Fact Book, just these nations amount to almost two billion people. Four times the population of the EU. That's some market - get in there Roof Top!

Now, let's deal with your charge of xenophobia in the post above. I've begun to explore this word. Oh, how easy is it to hurl words at each other, and so much the easier when Blair shifted the dictionary meaning to suit his own purposes. PC purposes.

But here I deal with an historic people, not the land they inhabit - nice try, but a failure!

Roof Top, I had family members who died in Treblinka, Belsen and Auschwitz. They were once Europeans living in Jewish settlements across Europe. My head of science at school was the first British NCO into Belsen. Frank Ford. Once, just once, he described what he found. He was a hard man, ever wielding the cane. But he cried, just that, he went beyond himself that day, when he spoke of what he found. No man could reasonably ignore him, and I didn't.

I've been in Germany and Austria and the same spirit is alive and well. More, it's virulent.

Roof Top, you may plead all the apologetics for Germany as come to your mind. But my mind will not change. The Barbarian spirit remains dominant in Germany. That country may not be trusted.

I quote again Margaret Thatcher, not my favourite prime minister:

" You have not anchored Germany to a unified Europe...You have anchored Europe to a newly unified and dominant Germany! In the end my friends, you will find it will not work."

Roof Top, in spite of claims of xenophobia, we all will face a real truth, well, sooner or later.

I've faced this truth, but, and here's the question you must answer ... have you?

And further, to label me as middle class ... well if earning a living by the sweat on one's brow is middle class, then, dear me, you must be nouveau riche!

Oh dear, deBrett's would indicate it requires four generations of accumulated wealth to even begin to be accepted into the wealthy class. As for the nobility, well, that's about a blood line. Sorry old chap, I'm working class, as I always intended to be, and you and yours ... nouveau riche. But, I do not decry you, your ambition or your wealth. As said elsewhere we both followed our dreams. We both eventually inhabited our dream. And that, when we both look back, may say, there was romance in that, wasn't there?

RTC, you post as though the numbers in the indices actually matter to Mr & Mrs Average. However the FTSE 250 does not comprise earnings only made up of domestic trade.
I'm really not sure in isolation how your post about the FTSE indices is relevant to the huge raft of issue the EU has created over 43 years.
It is our credit based economy, that cradle to grave love in with debt.
We have an enormous trade imbalance with Europe, truly huge. This vote actually gives us the chance to rebalance that trade deficit by trading with other countries around the world.
If you thought that continuing in the EU as a lone voice with an ever widening trade gap was the answer,it wasn't.
We also might have some chance to reduce our love affair with credit and our house price based economy so driven by foreign buyers.
I see New Zealand has offered us their top trade negotiators for the forthcoming EU trade talks.
If I have to make some belt tightening measures for the long term benefit of my country then I will and would expect any patriot to do likewise.

You have totally missed the point of my post. I was not writing about the EU, house prices, New Zealand or our credit based economy.

I was writing about the very simple fact that what we all want is a stable economy with low inflation and low unemployment.
To have that kind economy you need the businesses that make up ordinary everyday life to be successful and stable. If those businesses are successful and stable they employ thousands of people and pay lots of tax to the treasury
I am not going to list all the names on the FTSE 250 but here is a sample of eight businesses we all know. Dairy Crest, Britvic, W H Smith, Debenhams, Halfords, Ocado, Saga, Tate and Lyle. As long as businesses like this do well then the country does well.

Your statement about our trade balance is flawed. The UK will never be able to rebalance our economy by trading overseas. We do not have that trading capacity or resource in the UK. The way we have been balancing our trade deficit has been by accepting foreign investment into the UK.
I say was, because in the days leading up to the referendum international money started to leave the UK. With the Brexit decision, last Thursday, the level of money leaving the UK has increased.

I wish you well with your belt-tightening measures. Belt tightening is a luxury the vast majority of society does not want and cannot afford.

For the millions who are living hand to mouth, the last thing they want is to be given some vague theory about belt tightening and patriotism.

The world you are talking about is largely a fantasy because it doesn't take into account the differences of other countries to our own, look back at our history with Europe and the rest of the world we are not popular with most.

The vote was for leave so lets get on with it, the main problem for all of us is the Middle East and its spread of extremism.

The movie 'Eye in the Sky' you recommended to me I watched it last night ,enjoyed it !

I have seen Jeremy speak twice and he is even better live than on screen and the crowds love him! He is a truly compassionate, honest man who is trying to do the best for the Labour Party. What a pity the Blairites haven't realised what a brilliant leader he is - if he goes and they take over the party then Labour is finished!!! We can only win an election with Jeremy Corbyn!!

It will take time to settle in but once they have taken stock & work a plan out we will be trading again in Europe & the Far East . They should adopt the song He ain't heavy he is my brother.
The Road is Long many a Winding Turn. For there Anthem the lyrics are very Apt.

The vote on here seems to be almost evenly split as to whether there is chaos or not. There will certainly be chaos for some time but I hope we are able to find some sensible people who will be good and effective negotiators to retrieve the situation. I do not want us to remain tied or connected to the EU Single Trade agreement if the EU makes it difficult or levies a penalty - don't stick with it for the sake of it. Use the WTO arrangements instead and/or negotiate our own individually when that opportunity arises. I just hope whoever does it genuinely does have the country's interests at heart and not their own, that is all.

It's a pity that the Cameron RemaIN campaign relied on scaremongering to the extent people thought Brexit success would be something the Cameron clan was afraid of and therefore must be good enough for people to vote for. Unfortunately Brexit covered up its lack of plans by hiding behind NHS expenditure and immigration.
The only people to gain are the stick and currency brokers as they take profits out of an uncertain situation created mainly by themselves.

Can we stop with this narrow NHS/immigration navel gazing.
The plan is to try and unravel 43 years of EU rules and legislation that we have woven into our way of life.
There could not possibly be a "plan" on the table ready to go for that tsunami of bureaucracy.
We know superficially what we want to happen, control our borders, reduce the pressure on our public servicers, stop single unskilled men from mainly outside the EU now from dumping themselves here, develop trade outside the EU on a level playing field without having to consult messrs Junckers and Tusk, prevent unelected clerks dictating policy. Those are the first important things. However there are libraries of rules, laws and dictats from our membership of the EU. I repeat, no plan could ever be created to deal with that, 1 hour, 1 week, 1 month or 1 year from the day after the referendum.

Was that not the focus of Brexit? It's almost the only thing we heard from them. It was only for that reason I mentioned it - certainly not "navel gazing" as most of us saw straight through this narrow minded approach.

we have a great commwealth that we turn our backs by joining the EU,now we can return to doing what we did before we joined, the wealth of talent that we can now draw on and let in to the country as we see fit and not dictated to by unelected idiots in the EU

No Wilf that's liberal and Lilly livered!
We have been run for years by Lilly livered liberal politicians and look where it's got us,just look at Cammeron and his sp called deals with the EU.
You need conviction and to be one thing or the other and never be a fence sitter as you leave yourself wide open to forms of abuse.
Enjoy the sun while it lasts Wilf.

In reviewing the overall referendum campaign it strikes me there's something odd here. I hope I may express it coherently.

Cameron in February, returned here with a deal so poor it was like a second hand car without wheels. The he proceeded to 'sell' it to the British public. The more he talked the more my wife and I had the impression he didn't believe his own words. And throughout the campaign he worked just too hard.

Other Remain campaigners punched out distortions of truth, bordering on lies, and sometimes out right lies. Project Fear, so called. They all worked just too hard.

Now. I don't know much Shakespeare but a popular quote comes to mind. 'The lady doth protest too much, methinks.' Apparently from Hamlet.

But it does sum up the feelings in our home.

Why so much protest? Well, could it be because for most of his political life Cameron was a Eurosceptic. Once in No. 10 did he suddenly had a Damascus Road conversion? Unlikely, I must say. There just isn't the collateral evidence given in the Book of Acts where Saul of Tarsus had this miraculous change of mind. No, a more likely is the scenario ...

The constraints of his newly acquired High Office of Prime Minster compelled him to revert to his PR training and espouse the right line. Come the Referendum, well, he must have known he was very unpopular outside the Shires and if he went over the top in his campaign the opposite would result.

And it did! So Cameron actually won the Referendum, has effectively resigned from a job of which he once said, ten years in this job and one would be totally mad! After a suitable recuperation he will, like so many other high ranking Tories, be in line for directorships of banks, international outfits, and much more. A sinecure, highly paid and no direct responsibility. Best of all, no electorate, the dreaded voter.

Just an after thought. Roof Top, you still have business interests. I'm sure you could find Cameron a well paid bolt hole. How you would rate him on the asset register I can't imagine, but, please be creative.

We have been members of the EU for over 40 years. We already had a different and very much better agreement that the other 27 members. There was never going to be a massive improvement on what we already had. *
The one thing that his critics wanted him to negotiate for the UK was the free movement of people. His critics knew that this could not be negotiated. In his critics eyes, he was doomed to failure before he got to Brussels.

Both sides lied. But the one lie that will be remembered and the one lie that will come back to haunt Johnson, Gove, Grayling and Farage is the £350 million a week that will go to the NHS if we vote leave.

Just change the name to Johnson. For years Boris has been writing articles in the papers very enthusiastically supporting our membership of the EU. When he realised that leading the leave campaign could lead to him being PM he jumped into the big red leave party bus.
And what have we seen in the past 24 hours, Boris launching his bid to be PM.

Thank you for assuming that I have any influence in business or ever had any influence in business. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The reality is that like all of our ex-PMs he will join the USA lecture circuit and write a book.
*
The UK has a unique agreement with the EU. Not in Schengen, outside the Euro and a commitment from all the other 27 countries that the UK would to not be involved in any closer political union. We have voted to destroy that agreement and we are starting all over again.

"The UK has a unique agreement with the EU. Not in Schengen, outside the Euro and a commitment from all the other 27 countries that the UK would to not be involved in any closer political union. "
Oh, for crying out loud!
"Not in Schengen" is irrelevant as far as free movement goes. Once anyone reaches a border within the EU they are FREE to travel anywhere unhindered across the whole of the EU. They can be anyone of any nationality. Why do you think terrorists love the free movement nonsense.
How long do you think it would be before we were forced into the Euro in years to come once our one and only leverage of voting out was removed.
"Not involved in closer political union". What about the Court of Justice who can overrule our laws and the 27 other nations can out vote us (as they have done many times) and therefore impose political union in any event.
I'd be very interested in what it was that Cameron and the EU council/commission cobbled together behind closed doors for Cameron to keep us in.

I voted to stay in the EU but it did concern me about the closer political union as the Eu is essentially like a giant empire and as we all know from history no empires ever last (Paul Kennedy-Rise & fall of the Great Powers) e.g. Britsih Empire, Spainish Empire, USSR etc

I am sure we will be ok. British stoicism will come to the fore like it always does in situations where our backs are against the wall.
We need to stand together now, work together for the future and common good of this great country and put aside the past few months of upset and anger. If Scotland want to separate from us so be it, I hope they don't, they might regret it later on. Stand strong, stand proud and believe.

The chaos is being caused by the arrogance of our politicians. They automatically assumed there would be a remain vote so made absolutely no provision for the alternative. David Cameron made the promise of a referendum in order to win the last election and now it has spectacularly backfired on him. George Osborne spent a few days sitting in a corner sucking his thumb before he finally plucked up the courage to appear and start throwing around more unfounded threats. Jeremy Corbyn made a half-hearted attempt at supporting the remain campaign and convinced nobody, least of all his own MP's. Why did he not stick to his guns and go with the leave campaign? At least he couldn't have been accused of not leading effectively. However, they have now all been shown what happens when you treat voters with contempt so we may now get more truth and less bluster from future parliamentary candidates, unless they wish to endure the same treatment.

Humans are interesting and the older I get the more stupid they seem. (I include myself in that) Surely the UK government would have had a plan if we did Brexit? They seem to have got their act together pretty quickly but everyone seemed shell shocked by the vote to leave

I voted to leave and i am still celebrating the fact that after a very long 40 years or so we can call ourselves british ( of which by the way i always have i have never been a european) back to the main point i too put the entire blame on this present gov and especially one D.Cameroon , the trouble was they never expected the out vote to win and by that they were contemptuous of the british electorate.
Second having felt that they were obviously not going to have a plan B in place that again shows the arrogance of the conservatives. Had that been done we would not have had all this turmoil, finally, i am not sure with this comment " Cameroon did say he would stand at the next G/E not the brexit vote ????"
I apologise if he did but whether -or- not i strongly believe he
should not have thrown his dummy out of his pram so early!
long live GREAT BRITAIN!

I just think the politicians made things worst, at first it was if and maybes, getting near to the date, they all seem to have a crystal ball, saying this is going to happen, but at the end of the day no one knows what's going to happen. Ok,the pound dropped, but when there is a crisis in Europe, it does. So,let's see how things go.

I am sometimes startled by the lack of logic and reasoning that is regularly posted on Silversurfers forums. But this type of open forum does not ask that uploaded posts are logical and well reasoned.
Judging by the number of downward red thumbs I get, a lot of Silversurfers do not agree with what I say. I do not have a problem with this response and it does not annoy me.

The only thing that annoys me is racism and xenophobia.
Very regrettably UKIP and the vote to leave is being used as a license to make racist comments.

This has spilled over into race hate slogans being daubed on a number of Polish social clubs. It brings back memories of jackbooted National Front members taunting immigrants on the streets of Britain in the late 80s.
New York Times June 27th, 2016.

And who do you think is daubing these things around?
I live in an area that has been SWAMPED by immigrants They hang around everywhere drinking and catching Swans and Ducks etc .Plus they fish out of season!
We have so many no go areas now and the place looks terrible!
You won't like the word swamped but that is exactly what area has been!
We have become the dumping ground of the EU /UK.

What is your reasoning behind mentioning UKIP along side racism.
I believe this hate is being done by the in voters to try to place the racism card on all those who voted to leave!
I think America needs to get its own house in order before passing comments on the UK.

Racism is a complex subject but briefly, it means when someone is treated differently just because of their race, culture or colour.
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Xenophobia is a fear or hatred of foreigners or anything that is foreign or strange.
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A person who is violent and nasty in society is acting against the best interests of the rest of society

You are simply regurgitating media click bait. 1980's? Why not go back to Roman Britain?
I think you have an inkling of what you mean, but between head and keyboard something goes awry.
You mistake people's genuine concerns for something they are not. I thought this racism non issue that is often attempted to prevent real debate had been exposed for tripe that it is.
If you want taunting please try Luton, Bradford, Halifax, Southall, Regent Park mosque, Peterborough..............you can find it in spades, yes, white British on the receiving end, but that doesn't provide click bait or sell newspapers.
New York Times =Huffington Post nowadays.

They seem to have disappeared from public view. At the March 2016 demonstration in Cardiff just 25 National Front members turned up, Unfortunately some had to leave early because of the bank holiday train timetables.

There are often posts on this and other forums about foreign workers taking low pay and low-skilled work away from British born people.

Can we broaden this discussion and look at what is happening in the well paid and highly skilled sectors such as the IT industry. The IT industry in the UK employs thousands and thousands of people, pays them very well and is recognised as a world leader.
Within the high-tech IT industries, it has always been difficult to find potential employees who have suitable computer science qualifications. The country of birth is immaterial and businesses worldwide are in competition to find the brightest and the best. The UK does not pay as much as the USA and Germany, but the one major advantage we had in the past, was the attraction of living in the UK and within the EU.

The reality is that we all judge the values of other countries by what we see on the TV and just about every country in the world is watching the UK on its news channels.
All of us have seen on our TV screens the inward looking, small-minded, xenophobic and race hate statements that British people being interviewed on all the news channels have been happy to make. We have also seen it on this forum.
This same information is getting worldwide coverage and the UK is being shown abroad as an inward looking small-minded, xenophobic, racist and backward country where foreigners are not welcome. This morning international TV is reporting on racist attacks on Polish community centres in the UK.

Not surprisingly the international recruitment businesses in the IT industry has already seen a marked downturn in the number of applicants who want to come and work in the UK. This is not a surprise, who, after all, would want to have a working career in a country that is openly racist. And remember we have had just one day of the week following our decision to vote to leave.

If highly skilled people chose not to come and work in the UK it will not create job opportunities for low-skilled people from the UK or anywhere else. The companies and businesses that offer these jobs will leave the UK, they will take all of their employees to another country and not come back.

IT and computer science is one thing myself and family know a great deal about.
All you have written is absolute rubbish and I suggest once again you need to look at your information source!
Stop peddling half truths and misery on this site and run along to the Gaurdian playground where you will be welcomed with open arms!
Stop talking this country down and acting as though you are certain it's all doom and gloom.

Well, one thing for certain, after the votes there has been an awful lot more hate crimes. People seem to feel free of everything European including their neighbours, "friends". So they go around insulting and blaming others. Most Europeans living here work , study and pay taxes just like you, if not more .

I despair that so many seem to in a blind panic especially over shares with the herd mentality prevalent.
I see that the fifth columnists have already tried to deny the out vote by using selected snippets from interviews from out voters to give the lie that they wanted to change their mind and apparently London hedonists think that they should be separatists.
Nothing has happened yet as all we have done as a nation is vote to leave the EU shackles. It is our two faced "pals" in the EU calling for us to go asap to protect their gravy train.
Journalists and the establishment have been dealt a body blow as this vote was also a vote on their competence with them overwhelmingly declaring "a remain outcome" after the vote.
We actually have a strong hand as far as trade goes which is why Angela Merkel is being less of an hysteric than Junckers and Tusk. Junckers, who is essentially an unelected (except by the council of ministers) clerk absolutely hates the UK after Cameron tried to block his appointment knowing he is a rabid centralist whose father was in the werhmacht and the vote was 26 -2 in his favour. The last British pm to try and block the president of the commission was John Major and that failed as well and the EU got Jacques Santer. Merkel knows that we import a huge amount of German goods and doesn't want to lose that market.
I assume once the dust has settled and the lights still work, gas is still used for cooking, the buses turn up, people get paid and Apple iphones are still in the shops that we will settle down to life without the unelected EU clerks.
What we should be focusing on is our buying power as who but people like Junckers who are on huge non performance salaries and couldn't careless if we buy less from our European neighbours would want to lose the billions we spend buying our neighbours' goods.
The government's gambit should be "if you want our business then it comes at a reasonable price, but try and punish us and we'll shop elsewhere".
We do have a great spirit in this country when it is raised, my fear is that is it something that the 18-40 age group is prepared to find and use as few have really ever lived through hard times and am not sure they have the moral fibre for a sustained regrouping of this country's greatest assets; its people.

Are you talking about the same 18 -40 group that joins our armed forces and fights overseas, or maybe you are talking about the thousands that work overseas in voluntary jobs, or maybe you are talking about the people in nursing and caring for the elderly.
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What is this moral fibre you talk so easily about. ?

Lets now put the GREAT back into "GREAT BRITAIN" and get our Country back. No more Brussels telling us what we got to do ie Farmers being told what they can and cannot grow, Fishermen How much Fish we can catch. How many immigrants we have to let into our Country. Lets use the Money we have to give every Day/week to EU and use it to make our Country better re Jobs, Building Homes, Hospitals and giving our old Folk a decent Pension for a change to make life a little better.
The Government who did not want us out are now thinking of another Vote as they think that we did not want to come out and voted wrongly? what's this all about? Before ever we went into the EU we had good trading relations with many many Countries and we will find that we still will be able to trade probably at a better rate as we are not govern by Brussels. God Save our Lovely Queen, as she has served our Country and our people so well. No private life for her and her Family. We should all appreciate her a little more and for what she has done for this Country over the Years.

Do not keep insulting Crows.
I told you to get a new name as the crow is one of our most intelligent birds.
Stop talking as though your views are fact!
You don't have facts of the future at all,and you certainly don't help matters by talking down our future.
You need to look at what the last Bank of England Governor (the longest one ever)Sir Mervyn King has been saying these last few weeks,this is the voice of experience ,look him up and hopefully you may stop some of your negativity .
Trust the voice of experience not the Carneys of this world .
He is the X chancellors puppet.

The arrogant EU elites have triggered the biggest migration of unskilled, unwanted and downright dangerous men into Europe since the end of WW2. I would say that the chaos is entirely the fault of the EU, but now we are free of them.
We now need to hold our nerve, let's wait and see what happens, but whatever does happen it will be massively better than remaining in the corrupt, irresponsible and dishonest EU.
Go UK, Go England, Go Great Britain!

Can you tell me how you will help create this Go UK society you very blithely write about.
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What is it exactly you will do to create the jobs and income that ordinary working people need.
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And just a quick reminder. We are still full members of the EU and we will be for at least the next 2 years.

My 'Go UK' was a rallying cry to a nation that has been cowed by EU regulation for far too long, I thought that someone as erudite as yourself would have realised that?
What would I do? Well, as you've probably guessed, I'm not a politician, I wasn't even good at office politics.
However, a good place to start might be to empty our prisons of foreign criminals, then overhaul human rights and asylum rules and regulations.
Simultaneously we could kick start our manufacturing base by building a new luxury car that the world would die for, much like the RR and Bentley.
I would open up some coal mines to power our electricity generation in carbon capture state of the art power stations.

I would get a grip of the banks, I don't know how, but I could ask my ex as he knows everything.
I would requisition all second homes and use them to house our ex-service guys and others who are currently homeless. The owners could have them back when we have freed up the properties currently occupied by economically inactive migrants who would be sent back home with a small resettlement grant.
I would abolish the BBC and replace it with a People's Channel, funded through VOLUNTARY subscription and advertising.
I would limit the Royals to one London home and a seaside caravan. The freed up palaces would be converted into starter homes for young British people.
I would close all kebab shops, ban street eating, close the pubs at midnight at weekends, charge drunks for treatment at A&E, ban overly noisy motorbikes and limit footballers wages to £500.00 per week, but they would have to earn it!
Finally, I would recruit all crowers from rooftops into a 'people's think tank.'

I am afraid nobody heard your rallying cry, I think you need a wider audience or maybe a political platform. But then you said you are not good at politics.

A prisoner swap. 23,000
None UK citizens have been deported since 2010. That kind of deportation programme will stop when we leave the EU. We would then need the goodwill of those prisoners country of birth to say yes, please send them back. In the meantime, we may as well get our UK born criminals out of the overseas jails. I think there are 2000 of them.

Rolls-Royce is owned by BMW Germany and they are planning to build the next models in Dresden

Bentley is owned by Volkswagen Germany and there is talk of the whole plant in the UK being shifted to Wolfsburg

Property requisition. That would certainly block up the courts.

And the rest seems to be an implausible mix of requests. I suspect that you are just trying to amuse us.

Alternatively, have you thought about not reading the Daily Express and the Daily Mail for a while?

Afraid of a little pain, Roof Top? I thought you were a child of the fifties, of rationing, hand me downs etc., as I was.

Of course it's going to be difficult. Civil unrest will break out and the metropolitans have the most to fear from that. This present sort out in Westminster is so very necessary and so long over due. So far it has not gone far enough.

I'll ask again, do your business interests employ low waged immigrant labour to the detriment of English labour?

The biggest challenge will be to accept that this has happened.
The best way to look at it in my opinion is to have a positive approach to the unknown future that lies ahead.It can be achieved with everyone working together.The politicians need to set a good example with accepting the situation and not fighting amongst themselves.they are not being paid to waste so much time attacking each other but rather to do a job -Just imagine if the rest of us behaved like the politicians at our work place and spent 70percent of our time arguing instead of being productive.
This is a great country,and right now it needs for people to come together to make it once again the envy of the world.

The leave voters keep saying that there was no racism involved in their decision to vote. That may be the case for the people on this forum but that is not what is happening on the streets. There are verbal and physical attacks on both eastern Europeans and Muslims. Apart from the general crisis what will be done about the treatment of these people. I love my country but at the moment I am ashamed to be British

That's good
Does anyone know what we want to buy from Australia that we cannot buy at the moment.
Does anyone know what we want to sell to Australia that we cannot sell to them at the moment.
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Does anyone know if the Australia free trade negotiations with the EU are still on the table for 2017.
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Australia has close to 1500 businesses in the UK, they use them as trading platforms with the EU. Does anyone have any thoughts on what might happen to these businesses when we leave the EU.

Not sure if you have been to Oz but a great country and 50% of people in Perth are Brits. Before the EU we had great trading with them.they have oil, gas, minerals, sheep, food, butter and are a great nation. We should trade again with them./ By the way I was and am a remainer in the EU. We should never have forgotten Oz & NZ & Canada

Make sure you know who is doing this before you start branding negative comments about!
Don't presume it's Brexiteers as I believe it is Inners doing it so that they can further their course for staying in and trying to brand Brexiteers Right Wing Racists!

Pam1960, please don't fall into the "believe everything you read" trap.
These are selected stories to ramp up sentiment. Who but the British could be so self critical on the say so of a few journalists.
I must say that we hardly ever hear of the Brit baiting by foreign nationals in this country or the sexual targeting of white Christian teenagers by muslims, the hundreds of Eastern Europeans sent back to Eastern Europe weekly by military planes from their own countries who have committed serious crimes here.
Please don't knock your own country as these isolated incidents happen everywhere, but it seems only the British get targeted by journalists.
I personally have not felt as proud to be British for many a year as I did on the morning of the 24th June after I heard the result of the vote.

I think it will be difficult to start with but if we all pull together (no matter what we voted) we can make it work and have a Great Britain once again with a controlled flow of People of all countries in and out.

Well I always was pragmatic. We should have stayed in. EU should have limited immigration to c100k or less and stopped trying to build a federal EU. We are coming out...we need to make the most of it...trade with Eu and rest of the world

I have read that some 'Out Voters' saying 'oh dear iv'e changed my mind'. Geeze how pathetic. Maybe! Maybe! if the lot of lazy non voters had gotten of their backsides and used their vote result Might! have been different. It's done, now we have to work together and get UK back. ' That's Democracy '

The Leave voters who are having second thoughts are like the people that buy a puppy, only to realise a few days later that it's too demanding. They lack the bottle, balls and vision to see through what they have started.

I disagree and firmly believe that it was more a control issue. We want control of our borders again, our laws, our economy, our future free from unelected clerks telling us how it is.
No one was really hoodwinked. The press and disgruntled in voters would like people to believe that but it isn't true.

The UK has become very successful socially and economically using a system of representative democracy. We vote for someone to represent our interests. There are 650 elected MPs and they all have an equal vote.

On 23rd June 2016 the UK population was given the opportunity to decide on our continuing membership of the EU using the referendum or direct democracy system.

500 of the MPs we elected in May 2015 using the representative democracy system wanted the UK to retain its membership of the EU. 150 MPs wanted us to withdraw our membership of the EU.

On 23rd June 2016 the UK population used the referendum or direct democracy system and voted to say they wanted the UK to withdraw its membership of the EU.

It is far too early to know what the outcome of leaving the EU will be for the UK.

What we do know is that all changes and laws that will be triggered by leaving the EU will have to be passed through the House of Commons and voted into UK law. There will be thousands and thousands of laws and directives that will have to be approved or rejected by the House of Commons.

Technically the 500 MPs that the UK elected in May 2017 could choose to reject all of these changes.

I am not saying these 500 MPs will reject any or all of the changes but we should all be aware that they have this option.

This forum asks us a simple question.
Do you think we’re facing chaos now we’re leaving the EU?

The dictionary defines chaos as 'confusion' or 'disorder.' We have seen chaos in Europe during the past few years as hundreds of thousands of 'refugees' have flooded into Italy, Greece, Austria, Germany, with hundreds of them making it to the UK in containers, rubber boats, trucks and fast boats.
The EU is dealing with the confusion and disorder by welcoming ever more unskilled, illiterate, grievance mongering, ungrateful 3rd world malcontents, many of whom have committed despicable acts against their hosts.
If you want to see chaos, just look to the EU, NOT the UK.

The question was to do with the UK. It was not to do with a humanitarian crisis, that has driven millions of people out of their homes and left thousands dead.

It does not help the balance of this forum when you put forward your very offensive and totally unsubstantiated opinion that all refugees are to quote your words ”unskilled, illiterate, grievance mongering, ungrateful 3rd world malcontents”

So please tell us, what is the EU then? The EU economies, save for Germany whose exchange rate was the most favourable when set to join the Euro are in turmoil, unemployment is rife, their economies stagnant, their youth aimless, their growth negative.
They are fixed in a one size fits all system of blue sky thinking nonsense which is unsustainable and you think that WE have chaos!
How long do you think the mindless one size fits all has already been in operation in Europe.
I am loathe to be rude, but you strike me as one so in love with the leased 3 series, big shoes,big watch and iPhone junkies who thinks that being part of the EU is all about holidays, eating French cheese, the villa holiday in some European country with just enough wine knowledge to know the difference between French and New World plonk.
We need people with moral fibre who are not afraid of a challenge and love their country and are not morally defeated at the first hurdle. I served with plenty when I was in the RAF and wish there were more about today.

Good stuff Bluesuede. This feels like 1940 all over again. Not yet bullets and bombs, but a standoff of international proportions. The Europeans will capitulate under Germanys economic force, but we have begun, just begun, to show we will not.

Here I'll quote Maggie Thatcher;

" You have not anchored Germany to a unified Europe...You have anchored Europe to a newly unified and dominant Germany! In the end my friends, you will find it will not work."

You do seem very angry about all of this.
I am really not sure why you denigrate iPhones, Big Shoes, Big Watches and French Cheese. It seems even odder that you believe these things are symbols of a lack of moral fibre.
Maybe you can let us older Silversurfers know what you mean.

Roof Top, my older sparring partner, you never cease to amaze me. Such simplicity, such ill-founded faith in the system. Allow me to tell you something, then please go verify my words. But an interlude ...

Fifty years ago I passed British Constitution at 'O' level, class one. It was but a part of a decent academic success story. It ended with a first class BSc in Geology, which I paid for out of earned income.

In the course of studying Brit Con I learned that MP's do not represent the voters. No. According to some sort of directive passed to MP's around 1850, they are required to represent their party in a given area, a constituency. Locally a party is elected, not a person. We voters are of no account! Thus, to say this is a representative democracy is, well, rather simplistic. Rather naive, wouldn't you agree?

The same may be said of County Councils, District Councils and the worst of all, Parish Councils.

As you've written here these last couple of months I'm left with a conclusion you are a successful, self made metropolitan, urbane, wealthy and disconnected from a very real reality. What connection have you with shop floor workers? What connection with those in this generation who need a Friday pay packet?

And you pontificate here on remaining in the EU? For who's benefit? Yours? Your stance cannot be for the benefit of those, like your father, who rely upon a Friday pay packet. How many of your businesses employ cheap foreign labour, to the detriment of English labour. Of course, you'll say none, but you would, wouldn't you.

In answer to the forum question ... Chaos, yes. But here I'll say no worse than bankers and businessmen have put us in these last many years. Now let me say ...

Good morning Lionel and good morning Silversurfers.
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None of us have any idea what is going to happen, the only thing we already know is that the promises made by both sides will not be kept.

Ian Duncan - Smith. We did not promise £350 million a week would go to the NHS.
Osborne. The emergency budget I threatened will probably not happen.
Boris. The EU is our most important trading partner, we need to improve our relationship with them.
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Cameron stepping down.
Corbyn will have to resign at some point.
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I am just about to disconnect myself from the real world by walking the dog.

Roof Top, I live with a family of mad but super intelligent Border Collies. Probably, as you were walking your dog I was out roaming meadows, pastures and walk ways. But then I was a shepherd, working with Collies so control, of my dogs is easy. My dogs have never had a lead on them, I just let them go. They are never more than fifty yards from me.

But, as you rightly say, it is a time to disconnect from the real world of dysfunctional politics, family and whatever else. Lovely time. A time to be alone ... so rare for people in this interconnected world.

since we are leaving the EU!!!
I think nobody had any idea what they would do if we left the EU
1 will the channel tunnel be forced to close or will
passport control stalls be set-up & customs & excise patrol guards be checking suitcases with the ticket inspecter walking down the Eurostar as
it crosses the Euro-channel & approaches Folkstone
2 Now the PM has resigned! nobody is doing anything posative about the UK role outside Europe, when will the PM nominate a commitee
or commision to oversee or consolidate our unity with the commonwealth & other International leaders (welcome back New Zealand Lamb) bye bye Danish bacon.

Whatever you may say now, it is undeniable that people believed the Leave campaign when it said on the side of its big German bus that we are sending £350 million a week to the EU. It was a lie.
People also believed that this same £350 million a week would be diverted to the NHS if they voted to leave.

Ipsos Mori Poll 16th June.
47% of the UK population think it is true that if they vote to Leave then £350 million a week will be sent to the NHS .

The logic is, of course, that since the £350 million figure was a lie then the promise that the NHS would be getting £350 million a week is also a lie.

Chris Grayling 27th June. It is an aspiration and not a promise.
Nigel Farage 27th June. It was a mistake to say that, it is not true
Iain Duncan-Smith 26th June. We never said that we would do this, I never said that.

We have been in a referendum contest between Remain and Leave. The people who voted Remain should now have the good grace to accept the decision and stop complaining for this is democracy in action. Perhaps the following statement by Suzanne Evans will give those who are disappointed some reassurance.

Suzanne Evans UKIP

2 hrs •

A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.

For all the Negative talk & comments from MPs & brussels. Look how there all wanting to do Business with us..Not bad for our first day of getting our country back.. This will surprise all them Chickens out there..

Suzanne Evans was suspended by the UKIP party on 23 March 2016 and is now described as a past spokesperson.
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Suzanne said in 2014 that UKIP has very little support in cities as the populations tend to be educated, cultured and young. After blaming immigrants for the housing shortage she then admitted that she herself owns 2 properties and shares ownership in a 3rd
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It is far too soon to be able to make any kind of judgement about the future of the UK outside of the European Union.

Crow you just can't help yourself can you,you are very depressing!
Please run along and stop trying to depress us all with your negativity.
We gave all had a belly full of Cameron and Osbournes lies all these weeks that we now need time to relax and bathe in the thought of Brexit!

When you have stopped bathing and relaxing maybe you can set aside some time to tell us what Brexit actually means for all of us citizens of the UK.

The Government that was elected a year ago does not know. The opposition party does not know, none of the government advisors know, and none of the financial experts know. Even worse, no one on the Silversurfers forums knows.

But it seems that you do know what is going to happen as a result of the vote to leave the EU.

Are you able to give us an outline of what we can expect? Can you tell us why we will have an improved standard of living, can you tell how this will affect things like the NHS and education.

Roof Top that is rich coming from you!
You have written that many comments on doom and gloom and how sure you are of the outcome ,that to waste time conversing with you.
People write on here telling you all the things good that they hope for and their optimism knows no bounds .But of course you have to always put a negative repetitive slant on all their conversations .
Once would have been enough ,we get your message now!

I'm glad we're OUT of the EU . I believe WE can do fine out the EU wich was constintly telling us what to do with our own country . They were distroying GB bit by bit and making us take in too many immigrants that we did not want nor need . It had to Stop . They wouldn't stop it so We the ppl have put a stop to it ourselves by voting to leave and I for one am glad . Common sense we have enough ppl in this country as it it probably far too many . And yet they kept on entering ! There was a big concern for me as a lot that came here did not respect our laws or our beliefs yet they were prepared to use our NHS and take benefits and claime housing . But not living by our laws in our country . Now we can take bck controle of our own Country and our boarders . It might be abit unsteady at the beginning but I'm sure it will work out just fine . As if we had of remained there wouldn't of been a country left to save . And before anyone shout that I'm a racist I'm not ok . If anyone comes here and lives by our laws I'm fine with that but I'm not fine with ppl coming here and not living by our laws .

Dawn Winchester, you obviously didn't see Newsnight presenter Evan Davis' interview with MEP Daniel Hannan. He accused Daniel Hannan, one of the top Brexit campaigners, of misleading the public after Daniel Hannan admitted that leaving the EU may not cut immigration.This is surely completely at odds with what the 'out' public thought they were voting for!

I totally agree with you, Jane. Words cannot describe how I feel just now. Leavers have not been forward thinking enough. Britain will never be the way it was before E.U. These days are long gone. I feel so sorry for all the young people who feel let down by the oldos. What will their future be now? Re immigration. We are ALL immigrants. Very sad.

Perhaps the Leavers were thinking ahead but the Remains didn't !
Don't feel sorry for the young most probably didn't vote anyway it's the older generation that always vote and have you thought that these older voters don't have children and grandchildren to worry about.
You absolutely have no idea about the effects of immigration the good and the bad effects of it on our country ,put your Mills and Boon book down go out and look around the country.

As I've said on other threads here, the referendum question is, who governs Great Britain? All other debate is extraneous to this central question; a consequence of a decision, we govern ourselves.

The EU was birthed in lies and deceit, has existed in the same way and knows no other means to continue. Nothing, absolutely nothing, may prosper with a foundation of lies and deceit. It's a spiritual law evidenced in history so often. Todays news at least five other countries within the EU are seeking a referendum on the question of their sovereignty rather bears this out.

I have little doubt some arguments and claims made by the Brexit people here grew from very same foundations. In a little while you will know them for what they are.

No lasting prosperity is birthed in the illusion created in lies and deceit.

My wife and I voted out, you won't be surprised to read. We did that for my wife's children and grand children - soon to be great grand child if one of them doesn't wise up. We voted leave not to improve their chances of prosperity outside the EU, not to give them a better material start. No. We voted leave for them never to be inveigled into this web of deceit, this relentless pursuit of wealth, this illegitimate power structure from which now, only now, have we begun to extricate ourselves.

I think we all need to take time to just breathe and think; I seriously never expected to exit EU-given the profiles and errors of Boris and Nigel! That's not to say I am unhappy to be leaving the corrupt and bureaucratic EU behind; nor am I sad that Mr Cameron is departing-I hope Osborne is also on the move.
I think some of the comments from other EU member countries illustrates that it isn't a stable, beneficial, or working institution; and that's before the other less affluent countries ascend to its ranks. There's a lot to consider, and a panicking/sensationalist media doling out only negatives won't help. Neither will an early 2nd Scottish Referendum - we still have far too many uncertainties and unknowns to be addressed; Wales have declared that Labour doesn't work for them - and they want something different, as do many areas of England....Ireland may even get over historic differences as an end result? None of us knows-but if we work together and insist on positive change, maybe a new credible and honest breed of politicians will emerge....it's the least Jo Cox deserves after such a cruel and racist based murder - such evil hatred and sadness has to be redressed and overturned.
In my unsure but positive frame of mind, I am hoping that the sky is unlikely to fall in tomorrow, or even the day after, so I'll take that as a sign that the world and our lives will continue and we can take time to reflect on the Brexit situation - I will also fervently hope that whatever and whoever the future holds in terms of how the UK performs, will be democratic, fair, and just........I think we deserve a bit of stability, truth, and hope after the past few years.

Very well put Joan.
If people would just calm down, it's over, and done the democratic way.
One thing i did not like, was some remain voters trying to suggest that migrants working here where suddenly going to find themselves having to leave the Country which is why i think London got remain vote.
Come Monday morning nothing will have changed and won't change for for a good while yet.
Lets just stick together and get the Country back the way we want it.

I voted remain and am devastated at the result, I really thought as a country we had more thought for the future of our young people but I was wrong. I feel the leave vote had mistaken the EU referendum for a referendum on immigration. Granted those most badly hit by austerity are probably those who feel threatened by immigration and cheap labour. But those same people will also be most badly hit by what follows. I fear for our public services and especially health and social care. If the UK can be this foolish I dread the result of the US election!

Our public services were in trouble before the vote because of uncontrolled immigration and it will get worse too until we close the borders.
As far as the young people go most probably didn't bother to vote anyway,too busy taking selfies!
The EU is in a mess watch for more leavers soon.
It wasn't a referendum it was a revolution against our weak and lying government,and a corrupt and inefficient EU !

Mr Trump will make a better president than Mrs Clinton plus he likes us British not like the idiot they have now in the White House.

I agree services were struggling before but immigration is a red herring - the trade agreements will be dependent upon open borders so nothing will change there. Our NHS and social care would collapse without staff from other shores.
Young people did come out and vote and they feel let down by their elders who are happy to just take and not give without thought for the future.
I agree the EU is a mess but you can only affect change from within. This country is too small and ineffectual to achieve much on its own. The vote was - as you say - a revolting act with people not considering the important issues only the prejudices fuelled by Murdoch and his acolytes - he wanted out because he can't control the EU like he can No 10.
As for Trump he only likes himself, Obama has been an excellent President.
Still I must shut up as us in the 48% have lost - for now.

NOt sure Obama has been excellent. He sorted out the economic mess but the guy cannot make a decison. Look at the "Red Line" speech about Syria. After that he became toothless to the tyrants of the world

I voted remain.
The arguments were all about statistics not trust.
The major issue about Immigrants was disgraceful as fellow residents of the EU have freedom of movement and should not be called immigrants aw they are not
The real need to work together in an increasingly joined up world is essential if we, as British, are to get a reasonable deal from big business.
It was set up as a financial scam to let the big companies rule the world but as it is growing business are being defeated by the actual needs of the rest of us. The TTIP appears to have been rejected by the EU and a good thing too but now!!!!!!!!!
Who knows what we as a single country can do against world wide companies, there are even more influential than countries and we need to work together to oppose much of the capitalist "improvements" they want to impose!

Morning, i voted leave thinking of our young people and their future.
1. Because the thousands of people flooding into UK without jobs EU law says we have to house/feed and give Benefits to while our young people even in work, struggle to get decent jobs, get on housing ladder or even rent.

2. I don't want our young people to watch rapists/killers/drug dealers wandering our streets on Benefits because we can't deport them.

3. Do our young people see the young people in Greece/Portugal/Spain without jobs? These Countries are in the throws of a lot of unrest at the moment, would a remain vote be able to stop UK going the same way? No, we will never know, i just wish people moaning about the result would get behind their Country and make Britain a United Kingdom again.

Can understand your strength of feeling Hattie, but your 2nd point doesn't makes sense, we have had British rapists/killers/drug dealers wandering our streets on Benefits for a number of years. Does being British make it acceptable?

jeanmark, 'of course not' I was posting about rapists/killers/drug dealers who commit such crimes in their own country flee to Britain, do crime again, do prison sentence and are able to stay here given taxpayers money, is that ok with you? Like you say we have enough of our own criminals to deal with.

You've totally gone against the popular opinion of the young: http://i.imgur.com/K6diScS.jpg and they are certainly the ones who are going to suffer most from the fallout of this ridiculous referendum.

1. Migrants bring more into our economy than they take. We also need these young immigrants to support our ever ageing society.

2. If charged, they would go to prison like all of the other domestic scum we have on our streets.

3. If the European union began to collapse and actually negatively effected our economy, we could have left at any point. Getting back in, if they flourish, however, is not going to happen. It's the leave voters who have hugely gambled on the "mystery box", not the remain voters.

Most of the young ones don't even vote and it's the older voter who helped vote us out.
As for the immigrants earning money and supporting our economy I would agree but a very large portion of this money is sent back to their own countries which is fine but it distorts the figures,that's why the UK is called the Royal Bank of Poland and Romania
Then there is the black economy,cash in hand no tax, pickpocket gangs from Romania .
And it wasn't a ridiculous referendum just because you didn't like the outcome ,it's called democracy !

MrFred, i have said many, many times i have nothing at all against migrants coming here working, paying taxes like the rest of us. But, seeing boatloads of people plus, gangs at Calais attacking truck drivers trying to do their job, don't you think we should be able to at least try to curb the influx. Don't forget we have to house/feed and give money to those that have made it to UK.

Year after year confidence in the EU has been crumbling as it does not be able to sort any crisis just keeps chucking millions if not billions at countries that are in trouble.

I agree that gangs in Calais attacking truck drivers is deplorable - and it certainly does not help anyone's case...

However, now we are going to be dealing with this on our own doorstep - we're going to have migrant and refugee camps in Dover instead. We will no longer have the French protecting the border crossing. Leaving the EU is not going to stop the refugee crisis, or desperate people trying to reach our shores - but we are, now, going to have to handle that alone. I'd be very concerned if I lived in Dover or Folkestone, et al, right now.

I agree that confidence in the EU has been dropping, and there are certainly a lot of broken aspects in the system - but we are certainly far weaker, poorer, and far less influential without it.

Referencing "just keeps chucking millions if not billions at countries": I fully understand your frustration, but I think we'll have a lot more refugees and illegal immigrants if we allow countries around us (the poorer EU countries) to collapse.

We should have stayed in and tried to fix the system, but now, we will have no influence over our huge neighbourhood.

The French didn't do a good job anyway, however with the money saved we can upgrade our border controls. We don't seem to have any now.
As for fixing the EU, it is impossible to change the way Eurocrats think. Latest greatest idea is reduce power of kettles and toaster to save fuel, they don't know it take the same energy but just takes longer.
We are better off without that kind of thinking.

You're absolutely right Mr Fred. The French are just going to let them all come now, why should they keep them in France when they want to get to the UK?
They'll probably provide the boats for them ... so much for better border control!

The lunatics think they run the asylum! What has not been clear all along is that this is not legally binding, advisory. Xenophobia of little people who have never travelled outside their comfort zone. The older generation should have known better and thought of our children and grandchildren. We have already benefitted from 70 years of European peace. I weep for my home duchy of Cornwall, the only part that had sense, Isles of Scilly!
God help the UK, is all I can say.

Hands up - I detest the man and his elitist corrupt cronies......However, Brussels and Strasbourg are bulging with more of their ilk - and worse still they can't be questioned or held to account. In fact, today I saw more MEPs and Eurocrats than I have ever seen, and the majority were saying their country has to seriously look at the EU and their own membership. So sad, I also learned that some people in Wales are worried about being 'out' as they need regeneration/employment funding - surely a decent and competent home government should be able to facilitate and support that!!! Who are we that needs to put out the begging bowl to others.......No chance of getting 'donations' when the next batch of ascending countries are admitted to EU - but existing members will be asked to dig deep(er), and we simply can't afford that at the expense of our own children and grandchildren-not to mention people working til they drop with no pension

I think you're over dramatising, it's not the end of the world for goodness sake. It's a democratic decision, if you take Scotland out of it then the majority of the country wanted out....and I'm fed up of hearing that I must be racist. I'm not anti immigration, I don't hate foreigners, I'm not narrow minded or unintelligent, I just think we'll be better off without Brussels interfering, I love wonky vegetables too!

We are still paying in!! It will take years to get out if at all and in the meantime the rest of the world that we trade with have lost confidence in US ! Plus we have right royally ticked off our allies!!

I don't believe we could be much worse off, the firms who bought our goods bought them because they wanted / needed them, why would that change, ?, the gravy train can stop now,
And the EU hasn't filed an audit, because it's books wont balance, what kind of a business is that we were dealing with.

I voted to LEAVE not because I am racist because I am not. I wanted our Sovereignty back.My Uncle died at aged 22years fighting for our freedom in WW2 and it seemed as though we had sold him and all others who had fought in WW2 and WW1 up the river.

Our soldiers fought alongside Ghurkas, Indians, Australians, New Zealanders, French freedom fighters etc etc etc we didn't fight the wars alone ! Oh and without America stepping in albeit late in the day !!We would all now be speaking German!!

It might be a bumpy ride but it will be worth it. The EU has gotten too big for it's boots & is still not satisfied. Can any one person tell me what the EU has done for that really is of benefit to them. I have a feeling more Countries will follow where we have chosen to leave.

Already this morning, two Leave camp campaigners, an MEP and and MP saying..... lets not rush into things, lets stay calm and the MEP said "Ive have been campagining to leave for 26 years, we won't be able to stop immigration for a while" already back tracking and those who voted out and those who didn't even vote will now see that homegrown policies were mostly to blame for your woes and you think that is going to get any easier? Not one bit. You reap what you sow.

I feel numb, worried and very VERY scared. Where has all this hate come from? I am extremely frightened at the thought of being governed by such bigots and fascists as the politicians who lead the Leave campaign. The pound has hit an all time low against all the major currencies and God knows what will happen once the Stock Market opens.
Just exactly what have those of you who voted Leave got to celebrate?

Bigots and fascists what a load of rubbish you need to get out more and see life ,the racist card was overplayed by the remain camp, it's about sovereignty and protecting our borders and overpopulation .
The rest of Europe will follow our lead and leave.
If most of the young voters had bothered to vote we would still be in the EU ,they are too busy taking selfies ,but we older voters always vote.

I so agree Janeblau1. I have never felt so much hate being generated. I fear this will only get worse. The younger generation voted to remain. They are the future unfortunately not enough voted. 72% turnout is poor on such a huge decision. At least all non voters will suffer along with the rest of us. The only good thing to come out of this is a win for democracy. Good luck Scotland with your referendum.

We never lost our country and we are not out yet the vote has done nothing but cause our £ to crash and businesses to plan their exit from our shores . When all the leave voters go on their already planned holidays abroad they will have less to spend as their pounds are now worth far less

Yes we had lost our country as our very tiny voice in the EU was never heard and more often than not totally ignored. Is that the way you want our country to be run. Yes times are going to be hard but we will not be the only ones coming out, just watch. Once things have settled down and all the scaremongering has stopped then we can begin to build our country back up. The businesses that want to leave are only thinking of lining their own pockets and never about the people they employ, shame on them.

Every business only thinks about itself and never about its employees. They should be ashamed of themselves for leaving our shores because we have left the EU.
What about BHS which closed down. This had nothing to do with us leaving the EU but it's the same principle, they didn't give a hoot about their employees. Our government were told by the EU that they could not step in to save TATA Steel. Do you think that what the right EU decision? I am disgusted at the behaviour of the EU and you should be too.

I've never been so patriotic about England as now. The ones in Government that have voted STAY IN , now resign and let the ones that wanted us to GET OUR COUNTRY BACK put into practice all what we told them ages ago !

Yes I agree with you. My worry is the Scots will now vote again to leave the UK which is bad news as I love Scotland and it should stay in the UK. I think there will be a bit of uncertainty but we will be fine here in Blighty as we always are. the Brits have a plucky spirit!

I'm not sure how well the whole thing has actually been thought through to be honest. I do feel worried for our immediate future. I can't help feeling it was an anti-establishment vote. I always thought we were stronger in Europe but now we must stand together and reunite and make this work!

There was going to be chaos not matter what the result as the country is so divided. Such exciting times and wonderful news for the next generation. It will be a rocky road but we will do it, we are in control. How many countries will follow us????

Been up all night watching TV and its amazing as only on last nights news the media said it was a dead cert to stay. Now we have voted to leave. Amazing times. I think we are fine. Look we have been out on our own many times before. The Brits have a fighting spirit and will just get on and have a new start. I think it will be an interesting few weeks and after the initial shock lifts we will just get on with life as normal

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