When our offense struggled last season and the season before, Bruce Arians was thrown under the bus repeatedly, and for good reason. Now, we are now at a four game losing streak, and the opposite seems to be the problem.

We have:

A secondary that can't cover.
Cornerbacks who can't get interceptions.
A line that can't stop the run.
Linebackers who repeatedly miss tackles (I'm looking at you, Farrior)
A defense as a whole that becomes a sieve in the fourth quarter, and gives up crucial drives at the worst moments.

What I want to know is: will fans be fair and hold Dick LeBeau accountable? Even Tomlin is getting more criticism than this guy right now. Seems like a double standard to me. Granted, I know execution is something that is up to the players, but really, this defense is nowhere near what it should be.

And don't even try to pin this one on the offense. Granted, they made mistakes too. But 24 points is 24 points, and that should have been enough to win against the lowly Raiders.

winwithd

12-06-2009, 05:59 PM

I have been somewhat critical of Arians, but this one I put on the defense. To give up three straight drives in the 4th to the Raiders is unacceptable. Mundy was leading with his helmet several times in the 4th, not just the time he got called for it. That includes when he knocked Gay out. He must think he wants to be Ryan Clark. And Burnett's interception drop was unbelievable. Had he been a receiver that would have been a perfect pass from his QB.

feltdizz

12-06-2009, 06:06 PM

I don't see how anyone can be critical of Arians when our O has fought for the lead in 5 games only to watch our D blow it.

While KC and Oakland are terrible.. I know Oakland is terrible on offense, not defense..

So when other teams are blowing scrub teams out their D usually makes a play or 2..
our D tends to let bad teams look good. While great for ratings its also the reason so many fans think we are lucky and not good.

BATMAN

12-06-2009, 06:12 PM

They are both accountable. An offense that can't move the ball with little third down conversions. A defense obviously tired of being on the field after the offense fizzles out almost all the time.

A defense with a secondary that couldn't stop a guy in a wheelchair. The defense is horrible and despite the negatives I mentioned about the offense, they have once again gained the lead. And once again the defense allowed the lead to last only a micro second.

BATMAN

12-06-2009, 06:13 PM

They are both accountable. An offense that can't move the ball with little third down conversions. A defense obviously tired of being on the field after the offense fizzles out almost all the time.

A defense with a secondary that couldn't stop a guy in a wheelchair. The defense is horrible and despite the negatives I mentioned about the offense, they have once again gained the lead. And once again the defense allowed the lead to last only a micro second.

feltdizz

12-06-2009, 06:20 PM

Another classic BA loss? While Lebeau deserves blame I need to step back and realize he has worked magic with some scrub DB's and Troy...

Maybe we paid too much for Ben and a few other players but it's time to get some new blood. These guys are old and talking about what they gonna do more then just doing it...

I know with decent players we win these games.. these DB's are so bad and so far out of position I think they are talking about what club to hit after the game in the huddle

SteelCrazy

12-06-2009, 06:22 PM

LeBeau would be held accountable if it were his fault....The DB's are the ones to blame. LeBeau cannot play for them. With Arians, it was because of the play calling, like running the ball 3 straight times on the goal line on more than one occasion. There were several reason Arians caught hell last year and this year.

LeBeau is proven. However, the DB's aren't. A dropped int would have ended that game. Covering your man tight would have helped. There were 7 Db's in the game at the end and the Raiders had max protect and those 7 could not cover 3-4 receivers. Place all the blame for this loss on the D, but LeBeau is not at fault.

SteelTorch

12-06-2009, 06:26 PM

Another classic BA loss? While Lebeau deserves blame I need to step back and realize he has worked magic with some scrub DB's and Troy...

Maybe we paid too much for Ben and a few other players but it's time to get some new blood. These guys are old and talking about what they gonna do more then just doing it...

I know with decent players we win these games.. these DB's are so bad and so far out of position I think they are talking about what club to hit after the game in the huddle

Excuse me? Magic? Let's see, our cornerbacks still have 0 INT's for the year. Troy is leading the team with picks and has only played three games. We're in the middle of the pack in defensive QB ratings. Our secondary has made scrub QBs look like Pro-Bowlers. We have allowed a 4th quarter lead to be blown in 6 games now.

So please tell me what "magic" he's working here. Because I seem to be missing it. :nono

feltdizz

12-06-2009, 06:29 PM

Another classic BA loss? While Lebeau deserves blame I need to step back and realize he has worked magic with some scrub DB's and Troy...

Maybe we paid too much for Ben and a few other players but it's time to get some new blood. These guys are old and talking about what they gonna do more then just doing it...

I know with decent players we win these games.. these DB's are so bad and so far out of position I think they are talking about what club to hit after the game in the huddle

Excuse me? Magic? Let's see, our cornerbacks still have 0 INT's for the year. Troy is leading the team with picks and has only played three games. We're in the middle of the pack in defensive QB ratings. Our secondary has made scrub QBs look like Pro-Bowlers. We have allowed a 4th quarter lead to be blown in 6 games now.

So please tell me what "magic" he's working here. Because I seem to be missing it. :nono

I'm talking about past years when Troy was healthy.. I don't think the DB's were any better I just think Troy mask how bad the DB's are...

Obviously without Troy there is no magic.. the curtain has been pulled back.. the DB has been exposed

Oviedo

12-06-2009, 06:44 PM

LeBeau can't fix the problem. This one is completely on the defense. The secondary is atrocious with blown assignments. That is the DC's fault. Even legends can stay past their "sell by" date. If our whole defense is predicated on Troy then our DC has a crap scheme.

Allow me to also scold Burnett. I'm his biggest supporter. We saw how good he reads plays and breaks on balls but dude you have to catch it no matter how much adrenaline you have in your first chance to do something special. I've seen him make that catch a dozen times. Disappointing but he looked better than Gay...again.

buckeyehoppy

12-06-2009, 06:54 PM

Yes D!ck LeBeau should be held accountable. No defense in the NFL should be giving up 21 4th quarter points to the D-Cell Chukkas.

The real question here should be this: The Steelers have selected 3 cornerbacks and a safety in the last 3 draft cycles. Can any of these guys catch a ball that's up for grabs any more quickly than they can catch hell for dropping it?

Joe Burnett had the game ending INT IN HIS HANDS!!! Our CBs have ZERO INTs through 12 games.

The Steelers CBs either:
1) Aren't very well coached
2) Weren't very good to begin with
3) Don't give a f---
4) All of the above

Troy CAN'T POSSIBLY make this much of a difference. He's a great player. But for this defense to be this much different w/o him in makes no sense. The Steelers D had the win, literally, in their hands, with No Troy Polamalu in the lineup.

LeBeau is a great coach. It's just really sad that this might be what he's remembered for if it's his last season.

Steel Life

12-06-2009, 07:06 PM

LeBeau would be held accountable if it were his fault....The DB's are the ones to blame. LeBeau cannot play for them. With Arians, it was because of the play calling, like running the ball 3 straight times on the goal line on more than one occasion. There were several reason Arians caught hell last year and this year.

LeBeau is proven. However, the DB's aren't. A dropped int would have ended that game. Covering your man tight would have helped. There were 7 Db's in the game at the end and the Raiders had max protect and those 7 could not cover 3-4 receivers. Place all the blame for this loss on the D, but LeBeau is not at fault.
I'm with you...at some point you have to hold the players accountable. This is a scheme that they practice in & know their assignments...so if they don't execute, or drop INTs, or get penalties to help keep drives alive, then how can you blame him? The area I will blame him for is the continued use of the roaming around defense which was called on the last Oakland TD with Ike rushing rather than being in coverage - this is the second time they've been burned on this & it's clear that this isn't working.

buckeyehoppy

12-06-2009, 07:10 PM

LeBeau can't fix the problem. This one is completely on the defense. The secondary is atrocious with blown assignments. That is the DC's fault. Even legends can stay past their "sell by" date. If our whole defense is predicated on Troy then our DC has a crap scheme.

Allow me to also scold Burnett. I'm his biggest supporter. We saw how good he reads plays and breaks on balls but dude you have to catch it no matter how much adrenaline you have in your first chance to do something special. I've seen him make that catch a dozen times. Disappointing but he looked better than Gay...again.

Like I said, if this is LeBeau's last hurrah, it'll be too bad.

I've said for years that it doesn't really matter where skill position players are drafted. WRs, RBs and CBs can either play or not. So much of what they do is reading, reacting and going off instinct. When a player like Burnett drops A WIN, the question becomes obvious: is it just rookie nerves or the shape of things to come?

We've drafted 3 CBs in the last three seasons. Right now, two of them (Burnett and Gay) are in competition with one another and neither one is showing the mettle of being able to demonstrate that they can even play at playoff level, much less like champions.

I'm loath to put too much blame on either of these guys. But they can either do this job or not. Gay is at the end of his rope right now, in my view. Burnett must catch that ball when it's in his grasp. Today was his mulligan. The next time establishes a pattern. Then, where will we be?

feltdizz

12-06-2009, 08:34 PM

Sweed can't catch... why are we surprised the D B's can't catch..

Chadman

12-06-2009, 08:47 PM

LeBeau is a great coach. It's just really sad that this might be what he's remembered for if it's his last season.

Same could be said for Bill Cowher & his last season here. It sucks when a 'legend', if you will, is either outdone or starts to lose his 'magic'.

After watching Baltimore beat the Steelers Chadman couldn't help but wonder why Lardarius Webb, from tiny little Nicholls St, is able to start, and play well, as a rookie, while Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett, William Gay, Bryant McFadden, Ryan Mundy etc are unable to perform at a starting level or see the field for any real sustainable amount of time early in their careers. Some of you will throw the old "Steelers scheme is so complex" line at Chadman, but maybe that, in itself, is the issue. Maybe the Steelers need to 'dumb it down' in order to get the better athletes on the field, earlier. Maybe, just maybe, Coach LeBeau needs to work with what talent he has available- create schemes that suit those players & put them in positions to be able to contribute, instead of forcing players to suit his scheme?

Just throwing it out there..

brothervad

12-06-2009, 09:21 PM

I just don't think Lebeau suddenly lost it after countless years of mastery folks...

It's this simple...there are glaring holes on this Defense...holes that can be hidden when Troy is healthy.

It's near the end of the line for a great deal of the Steelers D we have known for years

The secondary is pathetic...Three games this year a CB or Safety had a chance for a pick that would've put the nail in the coffin for drives that ultimately undid our chances.

Think about it...the difference between 6-6 and 9-3 are three missed picks on 4th Quarter drives. Is that Lebeau? No it's personell that can't execute.

I am not saying Smith and Keisel, Farrior are bad but I believe these positions will need addressed next year if you are going to do it through the draft. (I do think Farrior thought leading the team in tackles, is now on the decline).

think about it 7 of the 11 starting positions are what I consider weak or soon to be weak spots.

My point is Lebeau hasn't lost a thing. The Defense is going to need retooling and that may mean next season.

just my .02

brothervad

williar

12-06-2009, 10:23 PM

LeBeau is a great coach. It's just really sad that this might be what he's remembered for if it's his last season.

Same could be said for Bill Cowher & his last season here. It sucks when a 'legend', if you will, is either outdone or starts to lose his 'magic'.

After watching Baltimore beat the Steelers Chadman couldn't help but wonder why Lardarius Webb, from tiny little Nicholls St, is able to start, and play well, as a rookie, while Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett, William Gay, Bryant McFadden, Ryan Mundy etc are unable to perform at a starting level or see the field for any real sustainable amount of time early in their careers. Some of you will throw the old "Steelers scheme is so complex" line at Chadman, but maybe that, in itself, is the issue. Maybe the Steelers need to 'dumb it down' in order to get the better athletes on the field, earlier. Maybe, just maybe, Coach LeBeau needs to work with what talent he has available- create schemes that suit those players & put them in positions to be able to contribute, instead of forcing players to suit his scheme?

Just throwing it out there..

Totally agree! It seems like our defense does too much thinking instead of reacting. Whatever overcomplicated schemes Lebeau has cooked up, they are not working. Honestly, I hope Lebeau retires, and Arians is fired. We need to clean house after this disaster of a season.

SteelCrazy

12-06-2009, 10:39 PM

LeBeau is fine. We still have one of the best D's in the league. 4th quarter melt downs is more of a reflection on the head coach.

LouSteel

12-06-2009, 11:31 PM

LeBeau is fine. We still have one of the best D's in the league.

Oh goody, we're paper champions :roll:

Please tell me you don't actually believe that this D is "one of the best in the league."

papillon

12-07-2009, 12:12 AM

This thread is all about holding players and coaches accountable. Can someone please explain to me what that means?

It's easy to say, but actually doing it is another thing. The Steelers need to regroup, prepare for Cleveland and win a football game. Then take 10 days off, get Troy back and let the chips fall for the last three games. Holding people accountable would do nothing except cause a bigger train wreck.

Pappy

SteelTorch

12-07-2009, 03:00 AM

This thread is all about holding players and coaches accountable. Can someone please explain to me what that means?

It's easy to say, but actually doing it is another thing. The Steelers need to regroup, prepare for Cleveland and win a football game. Then take 10 days off, get Troy back and let the chips fall for the last three games. Holding people accountable would do nothing except cause a bigger train wreck.

Pappy
I'm referring to the fans, not the coaches or the owners. I said in my post that the fans blamed Arians for offensive woes, and I'm merely wondering if we are willing to do the same with D1ck LeBeau. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but it seems people around here are quick to point fingers at Tomlin and Arians, but not at him. I see that as a double standard.

NWNewell

12-07-2009, 11:30 AM

When our offense struggled last season and the season before, Bruce Arians was thrown under the bus repeatedly, and for good reason. Now, we are now at a four game losing streak, and the opposite seems to be the problem.

We have:

A secondary that can't cover.
Cornerbacks who can't get interceptions.
A line that can't stop the run.
Linebackers who repeatedly miss tackles (I'm looking at you, Farrior)
A defense as a whole that becomes a sieve in the fourth quarter, and gives up crucial drives at the worst moments.

What I want to know is: will fans be fair and hold bad word LeBeau accountable? Even Tomlin is getting more criticism than this guy right now. Seems like a double standard to me. Granted, I know execution is something that is up to the players, but really, this defense is nowhere near what it should be.

And don't even try to pin this one on the offense. Granted, they made mistakes too. But 24 points is 24 points, and that should have been enough to win against the lowly Raiders.

:wft

Not at the top of my list of problems.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-07-2009, 12:00 PM

The thing that concerns me is this is the 3rd time it was nationally reported that the plays got in late or there was confusion. Now, I fail to believe that they would be the only 3 times a play was late getting in. All on hurry up. So if this happens more in the game and DL is making the play calls........

I'm just saying.

There was clear confusion on the plays referenced. I'm not going to throw DL under the bus because he has meant everything to the Steelers and will be a HOF player...But there comes a time in a coaches career...Where things don't come to you as quickly. Being around football...A great football mind needs to a decisive football mind that makes a decision within seconds. I can't believe this thought came into my head again on Sunday. But evidence is hard to look away from. We haven't heard problem with Farrior's helmet or radios were down...We heard the play didn't get to everyone. That means there was a delay from the sideline. I haven't said anything in the past but football knowledge leads me to believe what my eyes see. 4th quarter collapses out of hurry up and calls not getting to the players adds up to something to me. When DL can call plays based on down & distance he looks to be unstoppable. Add in the urgency factor being dictated by the offense...The secondary seems to collapse. The players love & respect DL as well as myself. He is great and always will be in my mind....BUT...To no fault of DL...The mind doesn't fire at the same rate forever! Forgive me for saying that DL..........

BradshawsHairdresser

12-07-2009, 12:28 PM

The mind doesn't fire at the same rate forever! Forgive me for saying that DL..........

somehow we rank in the top 5 in defense, i dont know how, but that is why stats are misleading, this is the worst steeler defense i have seen in a long time..not so much the outside linbackers, but the secondary is 90% of the problem and Im sorry but like i said all year, james farrior has not lost a step, he has lost about 2 steps, (no shame though)....

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-07-2009, 01:45 PM

The mind doesn't fire at the same rate forever! Forgive me for saying that DL..........

somehow we rank in the top 5 in defense, i dont know how, but that is why stats are misleading, this is the worst steeler defense i have seen in a long time..not so much the outside linbackers, but the secondary is 90% of the problem and Im sorry but like i said all year, james farrior has not lost a step, he has lost about 2 steps, (no shame though)....

Well, the stats don't lie. Overall, they are still very good. But situationally, they suffer severely in some areas, i.e. hurry-up, the secondary, nickle & dime packages. When do those short comings usually come into play? Near the end of the game when leading? When does the defense get torched??

RuthlessBurgher

12-08-2009, 02:49 PM

The mind doesn't fire at the same rate forever! Forgive me for saying that DL..........

LeBeau has forgotten more about playing defense than you will ever know. Of course, I'm not sure if that is a compliment or an insult toward LeBeau. :?

RuthlessBurgher

12-08-2009, 02:52 PM

When our offense struggled last season and the season before, Bruce Arians was thrown under the bus repeatedly, and for good reason. Now, we are now at a four game losing streak, and the opposite seems to be the problem.

We have:

A secondary that can't cover.
Cornerbacks who can't get interceptions.
A line that can't stop the run.
Linebackers who repeatedly miss tackles (I'm looking at you, Farrior)
A defense as a whole that becomes a sieve in the fourth quarter, and gives up crucial drives at the worst moments.

What I want to know is: will fans be fair and hold bad word LeBeau accountable? Even Tomlin is getting more criticism than this guy right now. Seems like a double standard to me. Granted, I know execution is something that is up to the players, but really, this defense is nowhere near what it should be.

And don't even try to pin this one on the offense. Granted, they made mistakes too. But 24 points is 24 points, and that should have been enough to win against the lowly Raiders.

:wft

Not at the top of my list of problems.

Yeah, that "a line that can't stop the run" note confused me. We are leading the league in rush defense (77.8 rushing yards allowed per game, which is even better than the 80.2 rushing yards allowed per game last year, which was second in the league). I agree that our pass defense is pathetic right now, but you can't say we aren't able to stop the run!

RuthlessBurgher

12-08-2009, 02:59 PM

I just don't think Lebeau suddenly lost it after countless years of mastery folks...

It's this simple...there are glaring holes on this Defense...holes that can be hidden when Troy is healthy.

It's near the end of the line for a great deal of the Steelers D we have known for years

The secondary is pathetic...Three games this year a CB or Safety had a chance for a pick that would've put the nail in the coffin for drives that ultimately undid our chances.

Think about it...the difference between 6-6 and 9-3 are three missed picks on 4th Quarter drives. Is that Lebeau? No it's personell that can't execute.

I am not saying Smith and Keisel, Farrior are bad but I believe these positions will need addressed next year if you are going to do it through the draft. (I do think Farrior thought leading the team in tackles, is now on the decline).

think about it 7 of the 11 starting positions are what I consider weak or soon to be weak spots.

My point is Lebeau hasn't lost a thing. The Defense is going to need retooling and that may mean next season.

just my .02

brothervad

I don't think that you can say that Keisel is old. He's 31, but this is only his 6th season as a starter (James Harrison is 31 and in his 6th season as a starter, but you didn't call him old). And I don't think you can call Ike bad. The TD he gave up in this game was an egregious error (much like the TD he gave up to Marvin Harrison in 2005), but he is otherwise a solid corner (with the notable exception of his hands, as we are all painfully aware). We also already have a potential young replacement for Aaron Smith (Hood) and possible young replacements for Gay (Burnett or Lewis). I think the only true pressing "needs" that we have are at NT and FS, particularly if Hampton and/or Clark is not re-signed. We could use some depth at the other positions, but it is not as dire as you make it sound.

Oviedo

12-08-2009, 03:42 PM

I just don't think Lebeau suddenly lost it after countless years of mastery folks...

It's this simple...there are glaring holes on this Defense...holes that can be hidden when Troy is healthy.

It's near the end of the line for a great deal of the Steelers D we have known for years

The secondary is pathetic...Three games this year a CB or Safety had a chance for a pick that would've put the nail in the coffin for drives that ultimately undid our chances.

Think about it...the difference between 6-6 and 9-3 are three missed picks on 4th Quarter drives. Is that Lebeau? No it's personell that can't execute.

I am not saying Smith and Keisel, Farrior are bad but I believe these positions will need addressed next year if you are going to do it through the draft. (I do think Farrior thought leading the team in tackles, is now on the decline).

think about it 7 of the 11 starting positions are what I consider weak or soon to be weak spots.

My point is Lebeau hasn't lost a thing. The Defense is going to need retooling and that may mean next season.

just my .02

brothervad

I don't think that you can say that Keisel is old. He's 31, but this is only his 6th season as a starter (James Harrison is 31 and in his 6th season as a starter, but you didn't call him old). And I don't think you can call Ike bad. The TD he gave up in this game was an egregious error (much like the TD he gave up to Marvin Harrison in 2005), but he is otherwise a solid corner (with the notable exception of his hands, as we are all painfully aware). We also already have a potential young replacement for Aaron Smith (Hood) and possible young replacements for Gay (Burnett or Lewis). I think the only true pressing "needs" that we have are at NT and FS, particularly if Hampton and/or Clark is not re-signed. We could use some depth at the other positions, but it is not as dire as you make it sound.

I think Kiesel has been a brightspot on this defense. The guy at times is dominant which should not occur out of the 3-4 end position. I think he routinely leads the team in QB pressures and may be pushing a creer high for sacks.

I do think Farriors play in pass coverage has fallen off a cliff. Still good against the run but terrible in coverage against RBs.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-08-2009, 03:56 PM

The mind doesn't fire at the same rate forever! Forgive me for saying that DL..........

LeBeau has forgotten more about playing defense than you will ever know. Of course, I'm not sure if that is a compliment or an insult toward LeBeau. :?

That's funny! No doubt he forgot more than I will ever know. He still can coach and teach his defense...He looks to be a little behind when the firing squad hits the field. I hope people don't think I am saying DL forgets his name from time to time. I saying the wheels spin before they hit the pavement. It is just the nature of the game and it happens...Just life. He might be better off simplifying the prevent to ensure everyone is on the same page when the hurry up kicks in. It is night & day when the O is at the line calling plays verus down & distance play calling out of the huddle against the O's personnell. I feel confident in saying that if the Steelers were in a simple umbrella in these final drives you could take 2-3 Ls off the board. There was no time for patience and teams would have come up short. The O will huddle or call a TO at some point...Thats your time to get 2-3 plays called. It is a "copycat" league and other teams watch the films.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-08-2009, 04:00 PM

I just don't think Lebeau suddenly lost it after countless years of mastery folks...

It's this simple...there are glaring holes on this Defense...holes that can be hidden when Troy is healthy.

It's near the end of the line for a great deal of the Steelers D we have known for years

The secondary is pathetic...Three games this year a CB or Safety had a chance for a pick that would've put the nail in the coffin for drives that ultimately undid our chances.

Think about it...the difference between 6-6 and 9-3 are three missed picks on 4th Quarter drives. Is that Lebeau? No it's personell that can't execute.

I am not saying Smith and Keisel, Farrior are bad but I believe these positions will need addressed next year if you are going to do it through the draft. (I do think Farrior thought leading the team in tackles, is now on the decline).

think about it 7 of the 11 starting positions are what I consider weak or soon to be weak spots.

My point is Lebeau hasn't lost a thing. The Defense is going to need retooling and that may mean next season.

just my .02

brothervad

I don't think that you can say that Keisel is old. He's 31, but this is only his 6th season as a starter (James Harrison is 31 and in his 6th season as a starter, but you didn't call him old). And I don't think you can call Ike bad. The TD he gave up in this game was an egregious error (much like the TD he gave up to Marvin Harrison in 2005), but he is otherwise a solid corner (with the notable exception of his hands, as we are all painfully aware). We also already have a potential young replacement for Aaron Smith (Hood) and possible young replacements for Gay (Burnett or Lewis). I think the only true pressing "needs" that we have are at NT and FS, particularly if Hampton and/or Clark is not re-signed. We could use some depth at the other positions, but it is not as dire as you make it sound.

I think Kiesel has been a brightspot on this defense. The guy at times is dominant which should not occur out of the 3-4 end position. I think he routinely leads the team in QB pressures and may be pushing a creer high for sacks.

I do think Farriors play in pass coverage has fallen off a cliff. Still good against the run but terrible in coverage against RBs.
Keisel is playing at his new contract. Farrior is not. I think the Steelers might have made a mistake with that new contract. Unless Farrior is hurt...He is dropping quickly. They better get a "thumper" early in next years draft.

RuthlessBurgher

12-08-2009, 04:48 PM

I just don't think Lebeau suddenly lost it after countless years of mastery folks...

It's this simple...there are glaring holes on this Defense...holes that can be hidden when Troy is healthy.

It's near the end of the line for a great deal of the Steelers D we have known for years

The secondary is pathetic...Three games this year a CB or Safety had a chance for a pick that would've put the nail in the coffin for drives that ultimately undid our chances.

Think about it...the difference between 6-6 and 9-3 are three missed picks on 4th Quarter drives. Is that Lebeau? No it's personell that can't execute.

I am not saying Smith and Keisel, Farrior are bad but I believe these positions will need addressed next year if you are going to do it through the draft. (I do think Farrior thought leading the team in tackles, is now on the decline).

think about it 7 of the 11 starting positions are what I consider weak or soon to be weak spots.

My point is Lebeau hasn't lost a thing. The Defense is going to need retooling and that may mean next season.

just my .02

brothervad

I don't think that you can say that Keisel is old. He's 31, but this is only his 6th season as a starter (James Harrison is 31 and in his 6th season as a starter, but you didn't call him old). And I don't think you can call Ike bad. The TD he gave up in this game was an egregious error (much like the TD he gave up to Marvin Harrison in 2005), but he is otherwise a solid corner (with the notable exception of his hands, as we are all painfully aware). We also already have a potential young replacement for Aaron Smith (Hood) and possible young replacements for Gay (Burnett or Lewis). I think the only true pressing "needs" that we have are at NT and FS, particularly if Hampton and/or Clark is not re-signed. We could use some depth at the other positions, but it is not as dire as you make it sound.

I think Kiesel has been a brightspot on this defense. The guy at times is dominant which should not occur out of the 3-4 end position. I think he routinely leads the team in QB pressures and may be pushing a creer high for sacks.

I do think Farriors play in pass coverage has fallen off a cliff. Still good against the run but terrible in coverage against RBs.
Keisel is playing at his new contract. Farrior is not. I think the Steelers might have made a mistake with that new contract. Unless Farrior is hurt...He is dropping quickly. They better get a "thumper" early in next years draft.

Luckily, though, Farrior did not get a huge cap-crippling signing bonus. He signed a 5 year deal in the summer of 2008 with a $5 million bonus. His base salary for this season is $2.975 and drops to $2.825 for the next 3 seasons. The salary cap hit if we cut him is easy to calculate. If we cut him with 3 years left on the deal, it would be a $3 million cap hit...If we cut him with 2 years left on the deal, it would be a $2 million cap hit...If we cut him with 1 year left on the deal, it would be a $1 million cap hit...

By the way, Keisel signed a 5 year extension this summer with a $5 million signing bonus as well. While Farrior's deal may not look so hot right now, Keisel's appears to be a bargain.

SteelTorch

12-09-2009, 12:14 AM

When our offense struggled last season and the season before, Bruce Arians was thrown under the bus repeatedly, and for good reason. Now, we are now at a four game losing streak, and the opposite seems to be the problem.

We have:

A secondary that can't cover.
Cornerbacks who can't get interceptions.
A line that can't stop the run.
Linebackers who repeatedly miss tackles (I'm looking at you, Farrior)
A defense as a whole that becomes a sieve in the fourth quarter, and gives up crucial drives at the worst moments.

What I want to know is: will fans be fair and hold bad word LeBeau accountable? Even Tomlin is getting more criticism than this guy right now. Seems like a double standard to me. Granted, I know execution is something that is up to the players, but really, this defense is nowhere near what it should be.

And don't even try to pin this one on the offense. Granted, they made mistakes too. But 24 points is 24 points, and that should have been enough to win against the lowly Raiders.

:wft

Not at the top of my list of problems.

Yeah, that "a line that can't stop the run" note confused me. We are leading the league in rush defense (77.8 rushing yards allowed per game, which is even better than the 80.2 rushing yards allowed per game last year, which was second in the league). I agree that our pass defense is pathetic right now, but you can't say we aren't able to stop the run!
Maybe you guys should just ignore that part... :lol:

I honestly don't know what I was thinking when I typed that, I think it was because we just allowed over 100 yards rushing to the Raiders. NEVERTHELESS, my other points about the defense still stand.

NorthCoast

12-09-2009, 12:26 AM

I went to training camp this past summer and I seen Joe Burnett make a nice INT against Ben. Joe will be alright.

JTP53609

12-09-2009, 08:34 AM

I went to training camp this past summer and I seen Joe Burnett make a nice INT against Ben. Joe will be alright.

yea i went and saw limas sweed make some real nice catches too.... :stirpot

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-09-2009, 09:26 AM

I just don't think Lebeau suddenly lost it after countless years of mastery folks...

It's this simple...there are glaring holes on this Defense...holes that can be hidden when Troy is healthy.

It's near the end of the line for a great deal of the Steelers D we have known for years

The secondary is pathetic...Three games this year a CB or Safety had a chance for a pick that would've put the nail in the coffin for drives that ultimately undid our chances.

Think about it...the difference between 6-6 and 9-3 are three missed picks on 4th Quarter drives. Is that Lebeau? No it's personell that can't execute.

I am not saying Smith and Keisel, Farrior are bad but I believe these positions will need addressed next year if you are going to do it through the draft. (I do think Farrior thought leading the team in tackles, is now on the decline).

think about it 7 of the 11 starting positions are what I consider weak or soon to be weak spots.

My point is Lebeau hasn't lost a thing. The Defense is going to need retooling and that may mean next season.

just my .02

brothervad

I don't think that you can say that Keisel is old. He's 31, but this is only his 6th season as a starter (James Harrison is 31 and in his 6th season as a starter, but you didn't call him old). And I don't think you can call Ike bad. The TD he gave up in this game was an egregious error (much like the TD he gave up to Marvin Harrison in 2005), but he is otherwise a solid corner (with the notable exception of his hands, as we are all painfully aware). We also already have a potential young replacement for Aaron Smith (Hood) and possible young replacements for Gay (Burnett or Lewis). I think the only true pressing "needs" that we have are at NT and FS, particularly if Hampton and/or Clark is not re-signed. We could use some depth at the other positions, but it is not as dire as you make it sound.

I think Kiesel has been a brightspot on this defense. The guy at times is dominant which should not occur out of the 3-4 end position. I think he routinely leads the team in QB pressures and may be pushing a creer high for sacks.

I do think Farriors play in pass coverage has fallen off a cliff. Still good against the run but terrible in coverage against RBs.
Keisel is playing at his new contract. Farrior is not. I think the Steelers might have made a mistake with that new contract. Unless Farrior is hurt...He is dropping quickly. They better get a "thumper" early in next years draft.

Luckily, though, Farrior did not get a huge cap-crippling signing bonus. He signed a 5 year deal in the summer of 2008 with a $5 million bonus. His base salary for this season is $2.975 and drops to $2.825 for the next 3 seasons. The salary cap hit if we cut him is easy to calculate. If we cut him with 3 years left on the deal, it would be a $3 million cap hit...If we cut him with 2 years left on the deal, it would be a $2 million cap hit...If we cut him with 1 year left on the deal, it would be a $1 million cap hit...

By the way, Keisel signed a 5 year extension this summer with a $5 million signing bonus as well. While Farrior's deal may not look so hot right now, Keisel's appears to be a bargain.
I agree. Nice to see a player (Keisel) actually elevate his play after he signs an extension. I don't know what is wrong with Farrior. His play is significantly down from last year. I'm not talking stats. You can get credit for a tackle behind or at the LOS or 5 yards down field. Still shows up on the stats sheet. Maybe he is hurt. I watched Casey against the Raiders and he was keeping Farrior clean from the inside guys so it isn't him.

<cough>Good year next year (Uncapped Year) for some vets to consider retiring and not killing the Steelers cap for 2011.<cough>