Again, this has nothing to do with Michael Young, the eye test vs stats or anything else going on in the other thread. But for a guy who's spent his whole career in Colorado, he seems like a guy that enjoys hitting in Coors Field.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Again, this has nothing to do with Michael Young, the eye test vs stats or anything else going on in the other thread. But for a guy who's spent his whole career in Colorado, he seems like a guy that enjoys hitting in Coors Field.

Yes he does.

He could also really like sleeping in his own bed.

The truf? Probably somewhere in the middle. Which might make him the #2 OF in Cleveland. Wonder why his HR are not really effected? 1 in 39 @ home, 1 in 42 on the road.

Pup, have you seen the guy take a single at bat in your life. Even one? And if you have, do you think your eyes have given you enough info to make an even remotely accurate assessment?

Because any time anyone here writes anything with a number in it you act as if they've never seen a baseball game in their life and have no idea what they are talking about.

I mean, honest to fucking god, the numbers and stats aren't the end all be all. Most of us understand this and acknowledge it. but they do mean something. They reveal something. They help us to understand, evaluate, illuminate. And yes, home/road splits mean something. They just do, even if you've decided that you'd rather just ignore them completely.

go watch this new guy take enough cuts, and play in enough games and then come back here and make everyone who has the audacity to drop a stat into a post feel like dick who doesn't know the first thing about baseball.

Me, I've never seen this guy play. Ever. So what the fuck else am I supposed to go on besides the stats?

motherscratcher wrote:Pup, have you seen the guy take a single at bat in your life. Even one? And if you have, do you think your eyes have given you enough info to make an even remotely accurate assessment?

Because any time anyone here writes anything with a number in it you act as if they've never seen a baseball game in their life and have no idea what they are talking about.

I mean, honest to fucking god, the numbers and stats aren't the end all be all. Most of us understand this and acknowledge it. but they do mean something. They reveal something. They help us to understand, evaluate, illuminate. And yes, home/road splits mean something. They just do, even if you've decided that you'd rather just ignore them completely.

go watch this new guy take enough cuts, and play in enough games and then come back here and make everyone who has the audacity to drop a stat into a post feel like dick who doesn't know the first thing about baseball.

Me, I've never seen this guy play. Ever. So what the fuck else am I supposed to go on besides the stats?

Yes, I have seen him play. Been a guy I followed because he always found AB for Colorado and I am in an NL only fantasy league.

And I would take him in my lineup over Mike Brantley, Shells Duncan and the version of Grady Sizemore we have had the last couple of years.

He hits the ball to all fields. Has a little power and decent speed. Very good defensively in all 3 OF spots.

About home and road splits? They mean very little. Some guys hit better at the place they are comfortable. Some guys dig the backdrop at some places. Just because a guy has good home splits at a place like Coors doesn't mean he can't have those same home and road splits playing in Cleveland.

I mean, if the only played in games Colorado won since he has been there, he would be an All Star with an OPS+ of 134. So I guess he should go to the Yankees or Red Sox since they win a lot.

Just don't play him in right field, because he is a much worse hitter playing RF than he is a CF. And I would only let him bat in the 2nd, 4th and 5th innings.

pup wrote:About home and road splits? They mean very little. Some guys hit better at the place they are comfortable. Some guys dig the backdrop at some places. Just because a guy has good home splits at a place like Coors doesn't mean he can't have those same home and road splits playing in Cleveland.

So, do they give the hitters all the comfortable beds in Denver, and consign the pitchers to wooden pallets?

This isn't rocket science. Even after the humidor, hitters (generally speaking) hit better in Coors than elsewhere, including the Prog. Spilborghs hits better at Coors than elsewhere, and that would probably including the Prog. Even if he still has a positive home/road split next year (as most players do), he won't have the Coors advantage.

pup wrote:Wonder why his HR are not really effected? 1 in 39 @ home, 1 in 42 on the road.

Coors Field doesn't just give up a lot of home-runs. There's also all the hits that drop in because of the large outfield dimensions.

motherscratcher wrote:Pup, have you seen the guy take a single at bat in your life. Even one? And if you have, do you think your eyes have given you enough info to make an even remotely accurate assessment?

Because any time anyone here writes anything with a number in it you act as if they've never seen a baseball game in their life and have no idea what they are talking about.

I mean, honest to fucking god, the numbers and stats aren't the end all be all. Most of us understand this and acknowledge it. but they do mean something. They reveal something. They help us to understand, evaluate, illuminate. And yes, home/road splits mean something. They just do, even if you've decided that you'd rather just ignore them completely.

go watch this new guy take enough cuts, and play in enough games and then come back here and make everyone who has the audacity to drop a stat into a post feel like dick who doesn't know the first thing about baseball.

Me, I've never seen this guy play. Ever. So what the fuck else am I supposed to go on besides the stats?

Very valid complaint about me bombing every thread that has stats.

I shall pick my spots better...and Ryan Spillbroughs is probably not one of those spots.

Even though he is probably my favorite NRI over the last couple of years.

Offseason is starting to remind me of the '06-'07 one where they loaded up on, shall we say, "undervalued" players to fill holes. It turns out they even ended up with another "Oldberto" in "Roberto Hernandez Heredia" who also has age issues. On the other hand, I'll take the same outcome -- a playoff year in spite of none of the offseason moves working out.

I'm not against the trade for Kevin Slowey...not a bad pick-up, and if he's recovered from his injuries and pitches according to his usual standards, he would at least be a decent back of the rotation guy. That being said...

One of my concerns with this offseason is one that I don't think has been addressed too much...our one tradeable "asset" is (or was) relief pitching, particularly in the high minors. It's not a great asset, but it is the one area of depth we could pull from to help in areas of need. And while the club has used this avenue, they've done it in a very piece-meal fashion, making several small deals in order to acquire bit players and used parts. Hopefully useful bit players and used parts, but still.

From this area of depth, we've now lost Putnam, Judy, Burns, and Jones (the Lowe guy). I don't think any of us--myself included--misses those guys or is losing sleep over their departure. However, perhaps if they (especially the first two) had been dealt together, they could have been used to aid in acquiring a more impact-style player, maybe the first baseman we much more desperately need. At the very least, they could have been major "pot-sweeteners." Now, they're all gone separately in much lesser, low-impact deals. Seems like a bit of a waste of assets to me. If you're going to trade those guys, make a bigger splash.

In general our organization is pretty thin in terms of advanced minor league talent. Some would argue Major League talent as well, but that's a different discussion altogether.

That said, we didn't have the depth necessary to put together a larger deal for a more impact type stick, and I'm not sure any of those 4 relief pitchers would have really sweetened any pots. Let's face it, we let Judy go without even bothering to try to deal him. That says a lot about how they view his over-all potential.

Right handed middle relievers without much major league experience are a dime a dozen.

We never had the ammo this offseason to make a trade for an impact bat. First, there aren't many available. Second, there'd be a reason that a team was trading them, likely contract-related.

Goldstein over at BPro (I think, either that or BA) said we have one of the three worst farm systems in baseball right now to somebody on Twitter a couple weeks ago. Lindor's our consensus best prospect and he's an 18-year-old kid who barely has gotten a taste of A-ball.

We'll get an upgrade at 1B, but I think we're about done besides that.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:We never had the ammo this offseason to make a trade for an impact bat. First, there aren't many available. Second, there'd be a reason that a team was trading them, likely contract-related.

Goldstein over at BPro (I think, either that or BA) said we have one of the three worst farm systems in baseball right now to somebody on Twitter a couple weeks ago. Lindor's our consensus best prospect and he's an 18-year-old kid who barely has gotten a taste of A-ball.

We'll get an upgrade at 1B, but I think we're about done besides that.

Agreed, you have to give up something to get something.

It was probably BA. We have one of the three most volatile systems in basebal right now, but not one of the three worst. Lindor would be the top guy in a few systems around baseball right now...he has the potential to be that good. Behind him though, there are a number of known quantities with low ceilings and a number of unknown quantities with high ceilings. I'd go into more detail, but then I'd just be stealing my own thunder from the system overview and top 50 prospects list I'm laboring through right now.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

BA's Top Ten Rankings for the Tribe at the time of publishing. Obviously Putnam is now gone. It's thin, with the top two of them really not having played much professional ball at this point, the next two projecting out as late inning setup type guys and the rest of the pitchers as 4-5 starters or relief pitchers.

Which, honestely, is just plain dumb. The guy had an off-year, yes, but it was mostly due to injuries and adjusting to wood for the 1st time. He's an oustanding athlete, and in this system there's no doubt he's still a top 10 guy.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

We've been linked to Oswalt. My guess is he signs for at least 10 Mil on a one year deal. No way do we offer that much. This could very well be more of the lip service we've heard about every other FA.

"Like a fool who struts and frets his stuff upon the stage. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." - Bill on the Indians FO.

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

3/4 M$ to go to a place you are comfortable and wins might be worth taking less money.

Kind of makes me chuckle, thinking back to the days Lord Shapiro and his Wedgie Minion told us free agents will chose Cleveland because we do things the right way. Maybe that theory was correct...but boy has the execution been shitty.

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

gotribe31 wrote:Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

Yeah, in theory, we can call Kipnis and Chisenhall our two top prospects. Keeping that in mind, we look alright with position players.

But, man, we have zero FOR pitching prospects. Lucky to get a MOR candidate or two.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

Does this mean we can at least agree that anyone leading the 'Free Cord Phelps' chants last year was simply a moron?

Was there any word of any interest in Julio Lugo before that interest was reported as falling apart? Signing Lugo would've been the most pointless pickup since every other FA signing this off season

Fixed.

Eh, you can at least make some kind of rational case for the various minor league signings and NRIs in terms of depth, lightning in a bottle, or whatnot. Lugo doesn't offer even that much.

Apparently, and I must have missed this, but the Indians actually signed Lugo a few weeks ago to a minor league contract that fell through for some reason or another (presumably medical). Either way, no harm, no foul, carry on.

I didn't know who he was. Looks like a 25 year old utility corner infielder and outfielder and MVP of the International League. In other words, a right handed LaPorta who can play in the outfield...the very definition of Replacement Player.

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

Does this mean we can at least agree that anyone leading the 'Free Cord Phelps' chants last year was simply a moron?

Prick.

My point was simply that given consistent AB's, Cord Phelps was a better option than OC. Which he was. I still think he can be a quality utility infielder, if not a 2nd-division starter at 2B. You're just pissed because he's taller and less adorable than Jamey Carroll.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

Does this mean we can at least agree that anyone leading the 'Free Cord Phelps' chants last year was simply a moron?

Prick.

My point was simply that given consistent AB's, Cord Phelps was a better option than OC. Which he was. I still think he can be a quality utility infielder, if not a 2nd-division starter at 2B. You're just pissed because he's taller and less adorable than Jamey Carroll.

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

Does this mean we can at least agree that anyone leading the 'Free Cord Phelps' chants last year was simply a moron?

Prick.

My point was simply that given consistent AB's, Cord Phelps was a better option than OC. Which he was. I still think he can be a quality utility infielder, if not a 2nd-division starter at 2B. You're just pissed because he's taller and less adorable than Jamey Carroll.

And Cord Phelps wasn't a better option than OC, with or without consistent ABs. Not last year. He was overwhelemed and played scared, not to mention played poorly. That's just not better than OC and I'm the first to agree it wouldn't have taken much at all to exceed what OC 'gave'. Phelps didn't do it.

And I agree he can still be a decent player. But he wasn't ready. He was one of the top prospects coming into last season. Where is he now? (Legit question).

I would imagine that's more insulting then being told "not enough money"

And that Top Prospect list is terrible. Did the Indians go from having a good farm system, and a bad pro team to a bad farm system and a bad pro team?

WTF?

Probably when their top 2 hitting prospects graduated to the majors and their top 2 pitching prospects were traded at the deadline last year. That would do major damage to pretty much every system in baseball.

Does this mean we can at least agree that anyone leading the 'Free Cord Phelps' chants last year was simply a moron?

Prick.

My point was simply that given consistent AB's, Cord Phelps was a better option than OC. Which he was. I still think he can be a quality utility infielder, if not a 2nd-division starter at 2B. You're just pissed because he's taller and less adorable than Jamey Carroll.

And Cord Phelps wasn't a better option than OC, with or without consistent ABs. Not last year. He was overwhelemed and played scared, not to mention played poorly. That's just not better than OC and I'm the first to agree it wouldn't have taken much at all to exceed what OC 'gave'. Phelps didn't do it.

And I agree he can still be a decent player. But he wasn't ready. He was one of the top prospects coming into last season. Where is he now? (Legit question).

He's still a top-20 prospect since he has less than 130 ML AB's. For me, he's still pretty much right where I had him last year; utility guy with a ceiling of 2nd division starter. Just because he stepped on his crank in his first 71 MLB at bats (which he most certianly did, not arguing that at all) doesn't doom him to be a failure forever.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

peeker643 wrote:No it does not. I agree 100%. Sometimes it's the best thing for a guy. He can use it for motivation or he can let it kill him. Not sure about his make up so we shall see.

When is AZ? You need creds? Lemme know and I can start the process.

Yeah, was just going to e-mail you about that actually. I'll be there from March 21-26. Fired up to get down there, can't wait for baseball and to see some of these kids play. The top-50 list has been a fun, miserable, confusing and enjoyable experience so far, and I'm only halfway through it. Last year's list was much, much easier to write.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

I didn't know who he was. Looks like a 25 year old utility corner infielder and outfielder and MVP of the International League. In other words, a right handed LaPorta who can play in the outfield...the very definition of Replacement Player.

This is one of those "ho-hum" deals that I actually kind of like, based on the low cost (cash considerations), his relative youth (won't be 26 until mid-April), his versality (can play all corner positions), and his success at AAA in his first season there. Plus, he's got options remaining. Sure, he's a little on the old side for a prospect (didn't play AAA until 25), and his strikeout numbers are a little on the high side, but he looks like he's at least capable of taking a walk, and he's hardly ancient. May be a late bloomer who can at least be somewhat useful, and for the price, why not?

Would I have preferred a flashier acquisition? Absolutely. But if we're going to make this type of low-key, minor-league pickup, at least it's for a guy with some real upside who actually makes sense. I could see this one working out for us. (And if he doesn't, no big loss.)