theckhd wrote:Do you always tell your employer when you're looking for another job?

I have to agree with Theck on this one. I looked a few times while I was playing, and in <Lurkers> A few people knew. But I didn't say anything because the guilds that professed to be what I wanted, well... they really weren't.

I didn't make it public knowledge, because it would have done no good to the guild for me, the Raid Leader, an Officer, and at times the.... "face" of a Guild Leader** to be saying "Yeah.... i'm not sure I'm sticking around".

Sometimes, it's safe to tell people. Other times, the situation isn't going to be made better by telling anyone. If it would have gotten serious, and one of the guilds that I was looking at would have become "interesting", obviously, I would have told someone. But, I don't think that if you App to a guild, you are automatically required to talk the management about it.

**There were a few times. Most notably from late in TOC until Arthas died to us the first time, and then once again, from when I decided to put my foot down about not getting to kill Arthas until Cata dropped. And then in DS, when it became clear that there were going to be "2 teams" working separate nights due to the sucktastic nature of DS, I was sort of... the "face" of Wednesday Night Raiding. The fracture the was created in the guild at that point was brutal.

twinkfist wrote:gotta agree with theck on this one..plus, they aren't paying him to play this game.

i'm sort of stuck with my raid group...1 because i like them...2 because i refuse to fill out an application for a guild.

f that...if i'm not getting paid...you can suck my application.

Because spending 5-10 minutes answering general questions to ensure to your prospective guild that you're not a complete retard is utterly time consuming right? This responses kills me every time I see someone use it.

And I agree Theck that yeah you're not going to go tell your boss "hey my job sucks and I hate the people I work with so I'm going to look for more work while I collect a paycheck here" but by the same token it IS a game.

How fucking hard is it to say "hey I'm moving on good luck" or even "whatever I'm leaving"? It literally takes 30 seconds. You could put them on ignore/log off/do whatever from that point forward. He tried to app to another guild while being tagged and now is getting shit for it since he's decided that suddenly since stuff started dying the guild is worth staying in.

What happens when it starts again? Try and bail to another guild and do it all over again?

I just think it's shoddy to try and play both sides of the fence and expect not to get shit for it.

I heartily agree with Theck, you stay quiet until you are ready to move, unless as Nika stated there is something in policy or your contract. (However in Nika's case, that would be more like "I'm leveling an alt and I want to start healing instead of tanking".)

However... you also have to be prepared for the consequences. Don't expect people to be happy with you.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

Realized what is really eating at me with my raid group. There is never success, there is only failure on the next boss.

A new boss dies, and on the first wipe on the next boss, the same whining starts "WHAT happened THERE?!?!" (Dude, it's the first freeking pull!) It's not a hardcore team, regardless of how hard they want to act that way.

When the full bitching starts when I go on vacation for three weeks coming up, I think I'm done with this raid team. A few want to kick me just because I'm going on vacation, even though they certainly have their own attendance problems. I'm too old to have some 20-year old try to manipulate me like that.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

It obviously depends a lot on your situation in the guild, If you are not happy in the current state and dont really like the other people there, dont tell them you are thinking about leaving, you already know you dont really care anyway.If you DO care, let them know, or atleast the other people you do care about WHY you are getting these thoughts.I dont think it should be that closely drawn towards a job application tbh since indeed, you are not payed to be there, you are there for your own "fun"(or indirectly to have "fun" with friends) If you are not having fun, then go where do you have fun.

twinkfist wrote:gotta agree with theck on this one..plus, they aren't paying him to play this game.

i'm sort of stuck with my raid group...1 because i like them...2 because i refuse to fill out an application for a guild.

f that...if i'm not getting paid...you can suck my application.

Because spending 5-10 minutes answering general questions to ensure to your prospective guild that you're not a complete retard is utterly time consuming right? This responses kills me every time I see someone use it.

Totally agreeing with this here. I've had more people in the last week tell me they won't fill out application than I even want to mention. If you can't be bothered to fill out an application, do a Vent interview with me... then why the hell do I want you on my team? They've already got a communication issue as far as I'm concerned - and that's not something I want to actively add to the mix.

Frankly, I've never seen the value of applications in the game for most guilds. Much greater value in an armory inspection and a trial run with the alt team. A verbal interview would be a lot better as well.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

halabar wrote:Frankly, I've never seen the value of applications in the game for most guilds. Much greater value in an armory inspection and a trial run with the alt team. A verbal interview would be a lot better as well.

Yeah but most people nowadays don't even want to get invited to your guild - they want invites through the calendar! I find it really weird that I have to explain to people that I expect them to leave their current guild to join mine if they want a raiding spot.

halabar wrote:Frankly, I've never seen the value of applications in the game for most guilds. Much greater value in an armory inspection and a trial run with the alt team. A verbal interview would be a lot better as well.

Yeah but most people nowadays don't even want to get invited to your guild - they want invites through the calendar! I find it really weird that I have to explain to people that I expect them to leave their current guild to join mine if they want a raiding spot.

Eh.. this might be the new trend. More "free agent" raiding. Might actually be looking to form up a raid like this if my current raid team implodes. My guild is great, the raid team, not as much.

You might be missing out on some great raiders by sticking to the "you must be one of us".

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

halabar wrote:Frankly, I've never seen the value of applications in the game for most guilds. Much greater value in an armory inspection and a trial run with the alt team. A verbal interview would be a lot better as well.

Yeah but most people nowadays don't even want to get invited to your guild - they want invites through the calendar! I find it really weird that I have to explain to people that I expect them to leave their current guild to join mine if they want a raiding spot.

Eh.. this might be the new trend. More "free agent" raiding. Might actually be looking to form up a raid like this if my current raid team implodes. My guild is great, the raid team, not as much.

You might be missing out on some great raiders by sticking to the "you must be one of us".

I've been on the other side of this, for 2 guilds now. One in cata, and one at the moment while my main guild gets rolling again (or we end up joining up with a friendly guild to get a team together)

How it goes down is this: guild has an attendance/numbers problem, and doesn't really care about guild achievements, so RL decides to invite some friends from other guilds to come along or grabs a couple of PUGs from trade(I've been both). Note, however, that this doesn't always meean once-and-done raiding, or farming. This was progression, the core hadn't cleared any of it. Those PUGs that the RL actually wanted back got asked if they wanted to come again, and if they did, if they could come regularly.

It got to the point that I wasn't a PUG anymore: I was their tank. I just wasn't a guildie. I brought mats, dropped feasts, jeeves, etc. Only downside was I didn't get to use guild repairs

I was/am a believer in the idea that if you don't want to be a part of my guild, I don't necessarily want you to be a part of my raid.

If you only wanted to hang with me during a raid, it would make me feel like you only want to hang with me for the purpz. And if you only want to hang with me for the purpz, I don't necessarily want to hang with you. It's one of the things that I loved about <lurkers> for a very long time. It's not a raiding guild. It's a social guild, built primarily of people from the forums, and populated with people we thought would be a good addition. Sometimes, it held true. Other times, not so much.

It's probably the biggest reason why when I looked for other guilds, none of them suited what I was looking for. There wasn't the same type of social interaction. I'd put an alt in the guild to check it out, and there just wasn't much talk in Guild Chat, there weren't people looking to just hang, doing whatever. It was raid stuff, and then do your own thing.

Even towards the end of my play time, when I was primarily raiding or soloing, I'd still chat, I'd still talk, I'd still go run something with someone if they wanted to, I'd even include people in my runs if they really wanted to, and it wasn't some boss that I was trying to get down completely solo.

Even now, the only thing I miss is the social part of the guild. I don't miss the raiding. I don't miss the soloing (that much). I miss hanging with people and chatting.

Shoju wrote:I was/am a believer in the idea that if you don't want to be a part of my guild, I don't necessarily want you to be a part of my raid.

If you only wanted to hang with me during a raid, it would make me feel like you only want to hang with me for the purpz. And if you only want to hang with me for the purpz, I don't necessarily want to hang with you. It's one of the things that I loved about <lurkers> for a very long time. It's not a raiding guild. It's a social guild, built primarily of people from the forums, and populated with people we thought would be a good addition. Sometimes, it held true. Other times, not so much.

It's probably the biggest reason why when I looked for other guilds, none of them suited what I was looking for. There wasn't the same type of social interaction. I'd put an alt in the guild to check it out, and there just wasn't much talk in Guild Chat, there weren't people looking to just hang, doing whatever. It was raid stuff, and then do your own thing.

Even towards the end of my play time, when I was primarily raiding or soloing, I'd still chat, I'd still talk, I'd still go run something with someone if they wanted to, I'd even include people in my runs if they really wanted to, and it wasn't some boss that I was trying to get down completely solo.

Even now, the only thing I miss is the social part of the guild. I don't miss the raiding. I don't miss the soloing (that much). I miss hanging with people and chatting.

Well, the flip side is you can get locked into a bad raid situation, or get forced into a guild you don't like just to raid.

Free agent raiding has it's advantages.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

Shoju wrote:I was/am a believer in the idea that if you don't want to be a part of my guild, I don't necessarily want you to be a part of my raid.

If you only wanted to hang with me during a raid, it would make me feel like you only want to hang with me for the purpz. And if you only want to hang with me for the purpz, I don't necessarily want to hang with you. It's one of the things that I loved about <lurkers> for a very long time. It's not a raiding guild. It's a social guild, built primarily of people from the forums, and populated with people we thought would be a good addition. Sometimes, it held true. Other times, not so much.

I didn't mean to imply that I *wouldn't* join the guilds I tank(ed) for as a 'PUG', nor that I was some silent tank-bot there waiting for loot to drop. I BS'd with the raid, run stuff with them outside the raid, and more than anything what I wanted was to get a bit of experience and I happened to enjoy the group. From the RL's perspective, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they aren't just keeping me around for my amazing tanking prowess. (nope, couldn't keep a straight face ). Heck, in the other groups I did this stuff for, I *still* chat randomly with some of the members even though that guild has long since gone inactive.

For me, at the moment, why I wouldn't hop guilds at the moment is because 1) I expect we will raid eventually 2) I was asked to take over MT duties and assist the RL & GM to keep the group going (with mixed results) 3) the host RL I run with knows the situation, and knows that I'm there to tank for them as long as I am able and they will have me.

So for me, if someone brought up the issue of 'just being there for the purpz' as though they carried me to them, I'd bring up the hours I spent wiping with them, the fact I paid my own repair bill, the fact that I bring my own mats, dropped repair bots, helped summon raiders, and do pretty much exactly the same thing as any other of their guild raiders sans talking in their text guild chat and having the same letters under my name. I'd then also never tank for them again. Thankfully I doubt that will be an issue.

as far as pugs being part of the guild..well both the guilds i am in are more social guildsyes, i would prefer to have everyone on our guild, but sometimes that isnt possible

and sometimes those pugs bring someone to the guildT11 we were faced with a healer shortage. pugged a healadin, he liked us, we liked him, and he raided with us as a PKer for T12 and T13, and so far has been to 50% of the raids we have done in MoP (yay 1/2) he isnt the best mage ever, but he makes us laugh, is part of the conversations, and is even one of the runniing guild jokes (gnome tainted lobster...yum yum) we never said (afair) you have to join us or you cant raid with us. we asked if he would like to join...but never had the ultimatum.

there are times i wish i could be part of a slightly more hardcore raiding team, but honestly, i would never be happy because i wouldnt have the friendships and that i have now. i raid with friends, for fun. yes i can be hardcore at times..but that is just part of me. if we get along, i would love to get a pug to join us, but not for the raid teamit is so we can chat with the entire guild while we arent raiding. that is what a guild is for me. a group of people that like to chat and sometimes kill raid bosses by throwing enough corpses at it til it slips and falls, hitting its head on the floor

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPSAmirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego. Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

Jabari wrote:@Nordix:Did you get (or even roll on) any loot from the raid after you had your other-guild interview set up?

No,I'm not a robber.

Lastwolf wrote:As a sort-of RL it's really hard not to take it personal when people leave, especially when it's over the speed of progress, it's usually good players that end up leaving because of that, it's just a major set back.

Good people are hard to replace and it's basically throwing a spanner in the works, he's prolly just butt hurt, I'd send him a in game mail or something, explaining concisely that for while you thought about it (leaving) and you changed your mind, not that you didn't get accepted elsewhere.

If he continues to be a dick, you'll just have to weather the storm or maybe see if you can reapply

Well,I tried explaining to him and he was freaking out like a 5 year old.I'm trying to weather the storm now,some guildies are even defending me maybe,but it's a shame he does NOT understand anyone else's point of view -even after being in a really good guild himself. Thankfully things span up,and while this tier our world position will be sucky,next tier -if we're stil alive - we can get back to our former "glory" of world 200.

Mannstein wrote:Well to be honest i would be an even greater dick... Only time as a GM i was aware of a player applying to another guild I setup the 25 men raid... get him in, saved and i ask him:RL(me): Hey i heard you apply to the "new guild"!?Raider: yesRL (me): Well, good luck then.Raider has left the raid (Kicked)Raider has left the guild (Kicked)

Didn't you warn you were applying to another guild?.... i cannot agree with that.

I did make indications,tho not a direct admittance ever to him,only my friends knew.Kept hinting these breadcrumbs for him for about a week before I applied. My number one prio is progression rate in a guild,if it falls behind and I can't see anything being done to fix it [Explanation: This new guild does not have an officer board anymore,everyone is equal now,even in rankname.And he was a raidlogger,so not online during day much.Being on a halfdead server didnt help either] then I consider leaving/switching.If you would've done that ,you would hurt yourself a lot too - just as my current GM does.This "play" is like a sword with two blades.

@Teranoid: I'm really sorry but I cannot take you seriously,you're just really pretentious and misunderstanding.

Halabar wrote:However... you also have to be prepared for the consequences. Don't expect people to be happy with you.

I know,but on the level he was raiding /we were raiding you can't be a kid who is butthurt,you have to understand the consequences yourself.Like I explained in a post above ,if you dont do anything to fix the situation, your raiders WILL Leave,because we're in for the progression mainly and THEN the atmosphere,not the other way around or not to boost people/teach them the ropes.

@Treckie: Sums it up,except I still didn't want to break the game for a few by leaving.

Also, some of the build engineers want to throttle the person who does the scheduling for spreading the test builds out over the entire shift *this time* for some reason. Every other time it's been sequential, making it way easier to anticipate (for us and the assemblers, since we can just say basically 'the next 5 are going to use the special parts in that bin there') and monitor progress.