.22LR as CCW

This is a discussion on .22LR as CCW within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Godskid
Just want to point something out. The .22 is the Bobcat. The Tomcat is a .32...
Good call!...

If memory serves me, the Beretta is the flip-up barrel type??? If it is, whatcha go'a do when it misfires---no ejector. I qualified for ccw with a 22lr. thought it was what I wanted to carry. Many better options out there. If you have to present your weapon it's already a bad day, so why not stack the deck as much as you can.

All the stories of "MR X" got shot with a .22 and lived are all but irrelevant. I've run on numerous guy that have been shot with all sorts of calibers and not one caliber is always gonna incapacitate. I thought we knew that? So many other factor: .22 short? round nose? hollow point? hypervelocity? Was the barrel 2"? 5"? It all makes a huge difference as well as shot placement, of course.

I recall several stories of a single shot .22 stops.

-FBI shootout (I think in FL?), BG sniped good guy.
-.22 passes through both femoral arteries, guy bleeds out in moments.
-entry through side of thorax, don't recall what specific damage was done.

To take a single incident or 2, one might conclude that the .22 must the be ultimate manstopper. not scientific.

Check into what most hit men use.........a 22LR!!!! The Navy SEALS used a 22LR pistol called the Amphibian!! What do you think that was used for!!! Shot placement is all that matters in a defensive situation.

Um, no. "Hitmen" (and women) are using hi-caps in 9mm and .40, and generally mag-dumps. The Navy and SOCOM aren't doing anything regular with .22. Modern suppressors are efficient enough to deal with 9mm/.45 gas; the primary reason the .22 was such a "hot" suppressed weapon was low overall sound signature, Tour of Duty and Ghost Recon options aside...

There is good info available on the Banditos, Crips, Bloods and Latin Kings, among others. When discussing hits, these are the modern players, not a bunch of transplanted hi-Talians.

To the OP: if you are planning to stop an assault, a .22 won't do it. If you can pin someone down, 10-15 rounds of .22 LR will certainly do it, but you may have difficulty explaining that particular "defensive" scenario. Defensive tools require evaluation of statistics- what is most effective, most of the time? Are you just wanting a "get off me" tool, or a fight stopper? Know the limitations of yourself and your gear. Like a couple of other posters, I've seen more than 1 or 2 people shot...

I've killed a 3lb fox squirrel with a .22 LR rifle. I emptied the 10 round magazine, hitting the little animal 7 times, 5 of which were in vitals, at less than 10 yards with hollow points (it was running, thought I had missed) and when I ran out of ammo it still went another 15 yards before stopping. I will never attempt to shoot an aggressor with a .22--i'd be too afraid of what he'd do to me after being so pissed off :/

Is a centerfire cartridge better maybe the thing is you can't run the scenario twice so you will never know. All things being = I will take a .22 I can shoot over a .45 I can't, remember the first rule have a gun. If you are fine with so am I, you have to work with what you got at the time.

A range instructor once told a class that I attended that most "professional" asassins use a .22. But, then again, he also claims to have seen Bigfoot duking it out with Elvis in his backyard one moon-lit night...

Seriously, if your life might depend on your choice of gun and ammo, why go with the .22?

All the stories of "MR X" got shot with a .22 and lived are all but irrelevant. I've run on numerous guy that have been shot with all sorts of calibers and not one caliber is always gonna incapacitate. I thought we knew that? So many other factor: .22 short? round nose? hollow point? hypervelocity? Was the barrel 2"? 5"? It all makes a huge difference as well as shot placement, of course.

I never implied that there was "one caliber that was always gonna incapacitate". That train of thought is very foolish even with a rifle or shotgun involved.

No round makes up for shot placement and penetration, and especially for the ability to perform under stress. That having been said, physics are still physics; the .22lr lacks the transfer of energy to "shock" someone into stopping if an incapacitating hit isn't achieved (which happens a whole lot more than most of us would like to believe). One might even question whether or not .22lr has the penetration to pass through clothing, bone and tissue in a fairly consistent manner, regardless of bullet type and barrel length. To that end, what kind of shot placement must be achieved with a .22 to be consistently effective? Do you have to not only aim for the heart or spinal column, but also between the rib cage to get to them?

Recounting actual events are very relevant in my opinion, especially when they are used as an example to illustrate a point (which in this case was that the OP would be much better served with a larger caliber with more mass).

I think that with the proliferation of really small good .380 autos, like the Keltec P3AT, Ruger LCP, Kahr P380, Seecamp LWS 380 and North American Arms Guardian, calibers like the .22lr and .25acp are obsolete in a pocket semi auto. If you find the .380 a bit too much then a good .32 auto like the Beretta Tom Cat or Seecamp LWS 32 or Keltec P32 should fill the bill for a self defense pocket auto. Back in the day people carried the .22s and .25s because nothing else that small was available then for them to carry. With the wide range of pocket autos in .380 or .32 it no longer makes any sense to carry a .22 or .25 that is the same size.