Guys, read up on Thorstein Veblen and conspicuous consumption. It's an about 100 year old economic concept asking for the ratio between the actual use value versus prestige value (for social distinction) of a product. Basically, do you need a car to take you to work, or do you need a car to show off infront of your neighbors. Only, it works much more subtle than that. People will want to belong and this is how the entire western society ends up in debt, totally unneccessary which is the worst part. No wonder China owns all our asses these days.

Apple users will continue to use Macs/Iphones etc for social distinction and to balance their feelings of inferiority towards their peers. And once you bought it, even if you're aware of what's really going on, it's only natural (there even is a study for this) to defend one's decision with "reasoning" even if you bought something useless. Now, Iphones aren't useless, but other brands will do the same trick except the prestige part. Also, what's so different to China when everyone in a social group (students e.g.) use the same product. It only shows that this generation grows up totally adapted. What about individualism if everyone uses the same brand?

Fact is, we live in a commercial society where people happily pay for the right amount of prestige i.e. conspicuous consumption. In so far, Apple has understood how marketing (and people) work extremely well. That's exactly why I despite them and feel pity for Iphone users (many who probably can't even afford to pay for the phone other than in 24 monthly installments) while potentially having no money for rent, healthy food, or the education of their children. Cheers!

Wow. Your opening might be true, but the hyperbole you follow it with seriously undermines it. For sure I love the prestige value, but claiming that is the only thing that sets apple products apart from the competition is at best just opinionated. My counter opinion is, that the build quality of mac's trounces the competition. The usability of osx and iOS sets them apart from windows, linux / android wp7. I have used them all.

I can handily afford the cash needed to buy apple products, yeah they are expensive in money terms, but they make my life easier and my job easier. Your opinion on whether that is true doesn't change anything.

Regardless you've handily (attempted to, at least) explained away any of my opinions about quality - according to you I'm simply defending my purchase with invalid reasoning? Sure whatever you think. I'm more interested to know what your take is on people who are compelled to denigrate other's choices, despite apparently not having any clue how others needs may differ from theirs. I know why I'm posting, it could my piss when people talk crap. Why were you posting?

I own AAPL shares too (since ~$120), maybe I bought those to balance my feelings of inferiority towards others...

Guys, read up on Thorstein Veblen and conspicuous consumption. It's an about 100 year old economic concept asking for the ratio between the actual use value versus prestige value (for social distinction) of a product. Basically, do you need a car to take you to work, or do you need a car to show off infront of your neighbors. Only, it works much more subtle than that. People will want to belong and this is how the entire western society ends up in debt, totally unneccessary which is the worst part. No wonder China owns all our asses these days.

Apple users will continue to use Macs/Iphones etc for social distinction and to balance their feelings of inferiority towards their peers. And once you bought it, even if you're aware of what's really going on, it's only natural (there even is a study for this) to defend one's decision with "reasoning" even if you bought something useless. Now, Iphones aren't useless, but other brands will do the same trick except the prestige part. Also, what's so different to China when everyone in a social group (students e.g.) use the same product. It only shows that this generation grows up totally adapted. What about individualism if everyone uses the same brand?

Fact is, we live in a commercial society where people happily pay for the right amount of prestige i.e. conspicuous consumption. In so far, Apple has understood how marketing (and people) work extremely well. That's exactly why I despite them and feel pity for Iphone users (many who probably can't even afford to pay for the phone other than in 24 monthly installments) while potentially having no money for rent, healthy food, or the education of their children. Cheers!

Wow. Your opening might be true, but the hyperbole you follow it with seriously undermines it. For sure I love the prestige value, but claiming that is the only thing that sets apple products apart from the competition is at best just opinionated. My counter opinion is, that the build quality of mac's trounces the competition. The usability of osx and iOS sets them apart from windows, linux / android wp7. I have used them all.

I can handily afford the cash needed to buy apple products, yeah they are expensive in money terms, but they make my life easier and my job easier. Your opinion on whether that is true doesn't change anything.

Regardless you've handily (attempted to, at least) explained away any of my opinions about quality - according to you I'm simply defending my purchase with invalid reasoning? Sure whatever you think. I'm more interested to know what your take is on people who are compelled to denigrate other's choices, despite apparently not having any clue how others needs may differ from theirs. I know why I'm posting, it could my piss when people talk crap. Why were you posting?

I own AAPL shares too (since ~$120), maybe I bought those to balance my feelings of inferiority towards others...

It's been studied, and generally people find what they have easiest... no matter if it is Linux, OSX, or Windows. It is easiest because they are used to it. I use Linux on a daily basis, and while OSX frustrates me less than Windows, it is still frustrating to use. And the less frustration I can attribute to it being Unix-like (in other words, similar to what I'm used to). However, when it comes to phones, I have an iPhone that was purchased for me for work, and my girlfriend has an android. I find the android easier to work with even though I use my iPhone way more often. I have 8-10 Safari crashes per day. Sure, I'm a heavy user, but it really suck when it just bails while I'm switching tabs. It's not about quality, it's about what you are used to. If it were, Linux/Android would blow Windows/OSX/IOS out of the water, and the BSD's would give Linux a run for it's money.

...and my counter opinion, after using linux (slackware, fedora, gentoo) for 10 years, is that it linux has its place (i run plenty of linux boxes at my company) and it is *not* on the desktop. osx virtually *is* linux, except the desktop works. gnome, kde, flux box, enlightenment. I understand that there is a lot of friction that stops people changing, but I am sure it isn't friction that made me choose (against my better judgement at the time) osx. I was the original windows hating linux zealot whilst I was using, quick to cover for its UI failings because it was *SO* much better than my windows experience in spite of them.

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

In other news, 10 crashes a day sounds very suspiciously dodgy however heavy you use it, my anecdotal experience is that safari has crashed about 10 times in the 2 years i use it. (daily, multiple windows, multiple tabs)

Not trying to say safari is perfect - far from it! I get beach balls, and yes it certainly does crash, I'm just surprised how often for you.

I haven't found ff/opera to be any better though (and in this case there is some friction, as no compelling reason to leave safari means i just tend to stick with it being as it's apple's native browser) I'd love a decent lightweight browser :/

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

hey wait a minute. how'd i get dragged into this?

i love Apple products. i'm typing this on my macbook. my whole rant about Apple has to do with its stock price and nothing else. and yes, i do think its topped.

...and my counter opinion, after using linux (slackware, fedora, gentoo) for 10 years, is that it linux has its place (i run plenty of linux boxes at my company) and it is *not* on the desktop. osx virtually *is* linux, except the desktop works. gnome, kde, flux box, enlightenment. I understand that there is a lot of friction that stops people changing, but I am sure it isn't friction that made me choose (against my better judgement at the time) osx. I was the original windows hating linux zealot whilst I was using, quick to cover for its UI failings because it was *SO* much better than my windows experience in spite of them.

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

In other news, 10 crashes a day sounds very suspiciously dodgy however heavy you use it, my anecdotal experience is that safari has crashed about 10 times in the 2 years i use it. (daily, multiple windows, multiple tabs)

Not trying to say safari is perfect - far from it! I get beach balls, and yes it certainly does crash, I'm just surprised how often for you.

I haven't found ff/opera to be any better though (and in this case there is some friction, as no compelling reason to leave safari means i just tend to stick with it being as it's apple's native browser) I'd love a decent lightweight browser :/

mind you, open mtgoxlive and safari is hosed

Just to clarify, I'm talking about Safari on the iPhone. Anything too ajaxy and it pukes. Forget flash, Apple doesn't want you to have it. I usually have 6-8 tabs open. It would be more, but 8 is the limit .

As for a decent lightweight browser, gnome's default browser Epiphany is pretty awesome, but I have no idea how hard it would be to get running on OSX. It uses WebKit for rendering (same as Safari), and it is very easy on memory/cpu.

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

hey wait a minute. how'd i get dragged into this?

i love Apple products. i'm typing this on my macbook. my whole rant about Apple has to do with its stock price and nothing else. and yes, i do think its topped.

$500, here we come!

hehe sorry my use of OP was referring to person i quoted, i guess QP might have been better, sorry. please carry on

...and my counter opinion, after using linux (slackware, fedora, gentoo) for 10 years, is that it linux has its place (i run plenty of linux boxes at my company) and it is *not* on the desktop. osx virtually *is* linux, except the desktop works. gnome, kde, flux box, enlightenment. I understand that there is a lot of friction that stops people changing, but I am sure it isn't friction that made me choose (against my better judgement at the time) osx. I was the original windows hating linux zealot whilst I was using, quick to cover for its UI failings because it was *SO* much better than my windows experience in spite of them.

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

In other news, 10 crashes a day sounds very suspiciously dodgy however heavy you use it, my anecdotal experience is that safari has crashed about 10 times in the 2 years i use it. (daily, multiple windows, multiple tabs)

Not trying to say safari is perfect - far from it! I get beach balls, and yes it certainly does crash, I'm just surprised how often for you.

I haven't found ff/opera to be any better though (and in this case there is some friction, as no compelling reason to leave safari means i just tend to stick with it being as it's apple's native browser) I'd love a decent lightweight browser :/

mind you, open mtgoxlive and safari is hosed

Just to clarify, I'm talking about Safari on the iPhone. Anything too ajaxy and it pukes. Forget flash, Apple doesn't want you to have it. I usually have 6-8 tabs open. It would be more, but 8 is the limit .

As for a decent lightweight browser, gnome's default browser Epiphany is pretty awesome, but I have no idea how hard it would be to get running on OSX. It uses WebKit for rendering (same as Safari), and it is very easy on memory/cpu.

ah I see - i don't use safari heavy on my iPhone so I bow to your greater knowledge. I think safari on iPhone has crashed on my phone more than my desktop so I would say you are right!

Cursory search for epiphany on osx suggests it *may* be possible but there doesn't seem to be a well travelled route, so I'll give that a miss - it would be the antithesis to why I left linux on the desktop in the first place if i started having to faff around with my core desktop apps! Thanks for the suggestion though!

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

hey wait a minute. how'd i get dragged into this?

i love Apple products. i'm typing this on my macbook. my whole rant about Apple has to do with its stock price and nothing else. and yes, i do think its topped.

$500, here we come!

oh an back on topic I agree i think its topped. I was a bit early with my call -not on here, IRL - I sold about 75% of my stock at $494, but I bought at ~$120 so I am not too disappointed. (OK my animal brain is pissed but I'm refusing to acknowledge it as selling was the sensible thing to do!!!!)

Still, its all anecdotal. It least you're just telling me what you prefer, instead of the OP who seems to base his opinion on usability around his dislike for a companies marketing practice. Yet it is I who should be pitied...

hey wait a minute. how'd i get dragged into this?

i love Apple products. i'm typing this on my macbook. my whole rant about Apple has to do with its stock price and nothing else. and yes, i do think its topped.

$500, here we come!

oh an back on topic I agree i think its topped. I was a bit early with my call -not on here, IRL - I sold about 75% of my stock at $494, but I bought at ~$120 so I am not too disappointed. (OK my animal brain is pissed but I'm refusing to acknowledge it as selling was the sensible thing to do!!!!)

and when spain inevitably goes to the wall, dragging the last two squealing pigs with them?

I think that will be the catalyst for the next big down leg. We haven't finished with FTSE 3500 yet (that's DOW 6600 in US terms!) yet. I hardly think that *this time* the banks aren't lying about keeping the interest rates low... expect that 'surprise' interest rate sooner rather than later.

Only once the eurozone has been thoroughly rinsed (and along with it all memories of anything bad that happened on the other side of the pond) can we get back to cheerleaders, and pom poms as the market enters another unsustainable multi year bull run! One in which I cannot wait to participate!