No room for 'disengaged' Pietersen - Downton

Paul Downton, the managing director of England cricket, said he had "never seen anyone so disengaged from what was going on" as Kevin Pietersen during the Sydney Test against Australia, which ended up being his final international match.

Downton chose the announcement of Peter Moores as the new head coach to make his first public comment on the sacking of Pietersen, as he tried to draw a line under it while announcing a new era for English cricket. He presided over the dumping of Pietersen just days after officially taking office as Hugh Morris' replacement and revealed it was his observations during the Sydney Test that had raised alarm bells, pinpointing Pietersen's attitude during the match that sealed the 5-0 whitewash.

Pietersen has been winning the PR battle hands down since his split from England. On the day of Moores' return as coach he tweeted "Everyone deserves a second chance", to which Moores, with a smile, responded "good tweet". Pietersen himself has recently said that he continued to hold out hope of resuming his Test career - talking, again, of his target of 10,000 Test runs - but Downton emphatically said "I don't see any intention of going back." Pietersen's second chance, it has been decided, expired some time ago.

A further purge of details is likely to emerge in October when the legal restrictions placed on both parties expire, but Downton insisted there was not a "specific" issue or a "smoking gun" which had tipped the balance and instead hinted towards an accumulation of factors over a lengthy period of time.

"Go back to Australia and watch what happened. I watch quite a lot of cricket. What you saw was a senior England player who had become disconnected from the team," Downton said. "I watched every ball of that Sydney Test and I've never seen anyone so disengaged from what was going on. What you need from a senior player is backing, support, everyone working together and we'd just got to a stage where that was no longer the case."

"If you are looking for a smoking gun there are no specific issues. This is ten years of Kevin scoring very well for England but getting to a point where the balance shifted. During those ten years we had a strong side, strong leadership in terms of established captains and coaches, and that side could accommodate Kevin. That balance has shifted, we have to invest in new players and a new side won't accommodate Kevin. It's as simple as that. It's about the balance of what is best for English cricket.

"The sooner we understand that Kevin has had his time, the better. We are moving on without him. We sat down, talked through it over a number of hours and he was the one, in the end, who wanted to terminate his contract and we came to an agreement to do that. He is free to play wherever he wants around the world, but the sooner that we can focus on young players coming through the more everyone will enjoy it."

The process for Pietersen's departure began almost the moment Downton landed in Australia after the fourth Test, where he began canvasing opinion from within and around the team. Before the Melbourne Test was when the England players called a team meeting, without the knowledge of Andy Flower, to discuss openly what had gone wrong and it is where Pietersen is understood to have been the most vocal voice in the room.

"I arrived in Sydney on December 31, and it was clear from meeting Andy Flower that there were two major issues," Downton said. "He was uncertain about his future and whether he wanted to stay and what we were going to do about Kevin. The issue at the stage was that you had a senior England player who had got disconnected from the team.

"We had to build not for the next three months, but the next two, three, five years and for the side to grow - remember we hadn't replaced Strauss in 18 months, Swann had retired, Trott sadly had gone home and is still recovering now - we had to invest in new players and we had to build a new team with some core values. It was decided that wouldn't happen with Kevin in the side. We decided not to select him. I don't see any intention of going back."

The topic of Pietersen was first raised at Saturday's press conference by a question to Moores about whether his job would be easier this time without the batsman's presence. "Impossible to say," was his diplomatic answer. "I've not worked with this team yet. Every team is different in some ways." He reiterated that there were no hard feelings towards Pietersen over the way his previous spell as coach was terminated.

"I never fell out with Kevin, Kevin fell out with me," he said. "I don't place any blame. I moved on quickly. A strength of mine is I look forward, not back."

English cricket is now trying to look forward, but you sense the name of Pietersen will not be far away for a while to come.

Paul, if you had watched the previous test in Melbourne you would have seen a very engaged KP score 120 runs, getting out late in both innings trying to go for quick runs with the tail. You would also have seen him surrounded by team mates who would have struggled to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Just admit that he doesn't fit your pompous mould and stop making things up. I know what I saw: a guy playing for pride when his team mates seemed to have lost theirs.

SuperSharky
on April 22, 2014, 13:26 GMT

This won't be the first time that a country's selectors made a wrong selection mistake. Teams actually grew out stronger from these situations. They think that because of the unfairness, they will even try harder in the future. We can all remember or name a few blokes that had to sit out & miss games, because of an idiotic selection decision. Most of these players were still in good form and talented enough to represent their country on merit. Symonds & a few Aussie blokes. Chris Gayle vs West Indies. A lot of Pakistani players had to take the dive. Luckily for Afridi he could jump back. Klusener was also victim to wrong selection decisions. Jacques Rudolph and a lot of South Africans had to miss games even thou they knew they had the form & talent to represent their country on merit. This only spurred the players (victims & non-victims) to do even better to survive. "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs." England will lose now to do better later.

RednWhiteArmy
on April 22, 2014, 8:16 GMT

Everyone loves to talk about England, huh? The decision has been made and no matter how much that annoys the indian fans, shane warne & piers morgan...thats just to bad.

cheatsdontprosper
on April 22, 2014, 7:10 GMT

Good article the only thing i can add to this was seeing Pietersen at the Adelaide test was the same as Sydney he was ASLEEP most of the time in the fielding department for which i SUNG TO HIM , wake up KP wake up wake up , but even my subtle melody did nothing to WAKE KP from a COMA !!!!!!! Seriously KP needed to be told to ship up or ship out sooner in my opinion. In KP'S eyes he is still TEAM KP NOT TEAM ENGLAND so SAD he could not be more of a TEAM player.

JG2704
on April 21, 2014, 19:36 GMT

@Steve48 - Re India - yes th KP inns was superb but Cook scored a ton and in the next game he scored 190.Also I still maintain that bringing Monty in was at least as big a factor in the turn around. He took 11 for in that test which in my book is at least as good.
Re disengagement - there were comms on here saying that he did look disengaged etc on the field - not joining in with celebrations etc.
Not saying you're wrong but words can be empty.Just reading between the lines - maybe KP doesn't behave the way he speaks and maybe it's only when stuff like this happens that he becomes more into playing for England?
For me Downton has said what he thinks and it's up to KP to counter.Anyone can say what KP has said and then behave differently.I'm not saying this is the case with KP but a person could be an absolute mare away from the public eye and then say all the right things in public but does that erase the bad stuff?

please publish this time - nothing of offence to anyone

Wallruss
on April 21, 2014, 15:28 GMT

I'm really glad they got rid of KP. He was a great player for England in his day but is now nowhere near as good. Of course current/ex-players are not going to tell us the gory details or their true opinions about him, because they'd risk getting dropped or sued. He has caused all sorts of problems for England throughout his career and whilst once upon a time his plusses out-weighed his minuses, this is no longer the case - he is no longer good enough to be worth the bother. Yes England are now a very poor side but they would be whether he was playing or not.

SirViv1973
on April 21, 2014, 13:43 GMT

So Swann who clearly knows KP very well having played with him for 6 yrs with Eng, Tremlett who would know KP pretty well from Eng/Surrey & Hants, Carberry who should know KP reasonably well from Hants & a few months with him over the winter & Morgan who has played with KP on & off for the past 5 years. All say there was no problem with KP since his reintegration. However Downton comes in watches 1 test match & decides drastic action is needed. This just not seem right to me.

on April 21, 2014, 13:19 GMT

Well I watched every ball of the England tour of Oz not just one test in Sydney & I did not see a disengaged Pietersen in any of them.
Lets see now how many runs has Downton ever scored anywhere?
I did see an endless series of humiliating defeats.
The measure of a manager is get the best out of players particularly the best players even if they are sometimes outspoken.
Moores will find that his job now is far different from running a coaching academy.
We are about to see another period of a miserably weak England team being unable to compete against better teams around the world. Downton will go back to his Abbey & soon be forgotten while KP will be long remembered.
So finally if KP was disengaged & yet got most runs the rest must have been AWOL. How absurd

Knightriders_suck
on April 21, 2014, 12:36 GMT

So your best batsman looks disengaged and it is his fault after you have put him through the grinder for two years of nonsense? Isn't it management's responsibility to talk to him and see how they can use his talents. He is not the captain anymore. Last time he talked to people, they said he is organizing a mutiny. damn if you do damned if you don't.
If you want to know why England always underachieves in every team sport, this is the reason right here.

steve48
on April 21, 2014, 11:42 GMT

@jg2704, thanks on feedback to my comment. I have no problem with KP being sacked on the grounds of fundamental differences in philosophy with his captain /management, especially in trying to build a new side. I did however take exception to the blame in Downtown's statement, and use of words that indicate a lack of interest /commitment on KP's part. Doing so only alienates the public further, more so when nobody else watching sensed this 'disengagement' in the Sydney test. Perhaps he wasn't supporting or advising Cook enough? Is that what he meant? As to this October gag, has Downtown not just broken it? Pretty damning statement...

JAH123
on April 23, 2014, 2:19 GMT

Paul, if you had watched the previous test in Melbourne you would have seen a very engaged KP score 120 runs, getting out late in both innings trying to go for quick runs with the tail. You would also have seen him surrounded by team mates who would have struggled to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Just admit that he doesn't fit your pompous mould and stop making things up. I know what I saw: a guy playing for pride when his team mates seemed to have lost theirs.

SuperSharky
on April 22, 2014, 13:26 GMT

This won't be the first time that a country's selectors made a wrong selection mistake. Teams actually grew out stronger from these situations. They think that because of the unfairness, they will even try harder in the future. We can all remember or name a few blokes that had to sit out & miss games, because of an idiotic selection decision. Most of these players were still in good form and talented enough to represent their country on merit. Symonds & a few Aussie blokes. Chris Gayle vs West Indies. A lot of Pakistani players had to take the dive. Luckily for Afridi he could jump back. Klusener was also victim to wrong selection decisions. Jacques Rudolph and a lot of South Africans had to miss games even thou they knew they had the form & talent to represent their country on merit. This only spurred the players (victims & non-victims) to do even better to survive. "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs." England will lose now to do better later.

RednWhiteArmy
on April 22, 2014, 8:16 GMT

Everyone loves to talk about England, huh? The decision has been made and no matter how much that annoys the indian fans, shane warne & piers morgan...thats just to bad.

cheatsdontprosper
on April 22, 2014, 7:10 GMT

Good article the only thing i can add to this was seeing Pietersen at the Adelaide test was the same as Sydney he was ASLEEP most of the time in the fielding department for which i SUNG TO HIM , wake up KP wake up wake up , but even my subtle melody did nothing to WAKE KP from a COMA !!!!!!! Seriously KP needed to be told to ship up or ship out sooner in my opinion. In KP'S eyes he is still TEAM KP NOT TEAM ENGLAND so SAD he could not be more of a TEAM player.

JG2704
on April 21, 2014, 19:36 GMT

@Steve48 - Re India - yes th KP inns was superb but Cook scored a ton and in the next game he scored 190.Also I still maintain that bringing Monty in was at least as big a factor in the turn around. He took 11 for in that test which in my book is at least as good.
Re disengagement - there were comms on here saying that he did look disengaged etc on the field - not joining in with celebrations etc.
Not saying you're wrong but words can be empty.Just reading between the lines - maybe KP doesn't behave the way he speaks and maybe it's only when stuff like this happens that he becomes more into playing for England?
For me Downton has said what he thinks and it's up to KP to counter.Anyone can say what KP has said and then behave differently.I'm not saying this is the case with KP but a person could be an absolute mare away from the public eye and then say all the right things in public but does that erase the bad stuff?

please publish this time - nothing of offence to anyone

Wallruss
on April 21, 2014, 15:28 GMT

I'm really glad they got rid of KP. He was a great player for England in his day but is now nowhere near as good. Of course current/ex-players are not going to tell us the gory details or their true opinions about him, because they'd risk getting dropped or sued. He has caused all sorts of problems for England throughout his career and whilst once upon a time his plusses out-weighed his minuses, this is no longer the case - he is no longer good enough to be worth the bother. Yes England are now a very poor side but they would be whether he was playing or not.

SirViv1973
on April 21, 2014, 13:43 GMT

So Swann who clearly knows KP very well having played with him for 6 yrs with Eng, Tremlett who would know KP pretty well from Eng/Surrey & Hants, Carberry who should know KP reasonably well from Hants & a few months with him over the winter & Morgan who has played with KP on & off for the past 5 years. All say there was no problem with KP since his reintegration. However Downton comes in watches 1 test match & decides drastic action is needed. This just not seem right to me.

on April 21, 2014, 13:19 GMT

Well I watched every ball of the England tour of Oz not just one test in Sydney & I did not see a disengaged Pietersen in any of them.
Lets see now how many runs has Downton ever scored anywhere?
I did see an endless series of humiliating defeats.
The measure of a manager is get the best out of players particularly the best players even if they are sometimes outspoken.
Moores will find that his job now is far different from running a coaching academy.
We are about to see another period of a miserably weak England team being unable to compete against better teams around the world. Downton will go back to his Abbey & soon be forgotten while KP will be long remembered.
So finally if KP was disengaged & yet got most runs the rest must have been AWOL. How absurd

Knightriders_suck
on April 21, 2014, 12:36 GMT

So your best batsman looks disengaged and it is his fault after you have put him through the grinder for two years of nonsense? Isn't it management's responsibility to talk to him and see how they can use his talents. He is not the captain anymore. Last time he talked to people, they said he is organizing a mutiny. damn if you do damned if you don't.
If you want to know why England always underachieves in every team sport, this is the reason right here.

steve48
on April 21, 2014, 11:42 GMT

@jg2704, thanks on feedback to my comment. I have no problem with KP being sacked on the grounds of fundamental differences in philosophy with his captain /management, especially in trying to build a new side. I did however take exception to the blame in Downtown's statement, and use of words that indicate a lack of interest /commitment on KP's part. Doing so only alienates the public further, more so when nobody else watching sensed this 'disengagement' in the Sydney test. Perhaps he wasn't supporting or advising Cook enough? Is that what he meant? As to this October gag, has Downtown not just broken it? Pretty damning statement...

steve48
on April 21, 2014, 11:24 GMT

@jg2704, have your opinions by all means, but please try not to rewrite history! KP's innings in India turned the whole series, the Indian crowd was chanting his name during it, such was its brilliance. Of course the other 3 played equally important roles in the final result, but in terms of key moments and momentum shifts, his 186 was the defining moment. KP fans love him for this very reason, he is an impact player almost unrivalled in modern batting. Steyn, Warne, McGrath and many other top bowlers will remember his treatment of them long after their careers are over, and certainly more than a very worthy attritional success against them. Likewise Dhoni, Smith and the other captains who have felt helpless to stop him. Averages pale in comparison to such match changing feats

JG2704
on April 21, 2014, 11:17 GMT

@steve48 on (April 20, 2014, 15:04 GMT) You make a well balanced point re the fact that what Downton says contradicts what KP said re his desire to play for England.
Now I would say the ball was in KP's court to respond and I would be genuinely interested in what he would say by way of response. Of course we don't know what KP is even allowed to say. He may be bursting at the seams to have his say but being advised against any response. We all know that at times his impulsive actions have got him into trouble.
There may also be the case that KP is saying one thing in public and then behaving in a different way.
On the other hand it could be that KP has just vocally disagreed with tactics or whatever and is seen to not be towing the line

on April 21, 2014, 11:06 GMT

What about the two "Senior" players that just up and quit in the middle of the series. KP top scored for England as probably was disconnected from the pathetic showing of Swann and Trott.

yorkshire-86
on April 21, 2014, 10:47 GMT

No one person is bigger than the team. That is aimed not at KP, who was just doing his job, but Cook, Downton, flower and the rest of the yacht club.

on April 21, 2014, 9:16 GMT

Whatever KP's talent is, he is a distraction to the game, he shows a disconnect from larger issues and an arrogance that isn't even seen in India's players.

Better England move on with a new coach and management.
I am so glad KP chose England and left SA

JG2704
on April 21, 2014, 8:08 GMT

@Nuxxy on (April 20, 2014, 15:40 GMT) That was a century in the one test. Cook,Swann and Monty (the 3 men I referred to) were more instrumental in the India win

Vinod_Fab
on April 21, 2014, 7:32 GMT

DOWNton, indeed looks down with his perspective. Guys,please show him the videos of that 5th ashes test where KP was running from deep to motivate his bowlers..!!.. They say because of crowd(Audience) cricket is a popular sport, why can't we support the brightest talent after vivain richards..? We must not allow the brightest career to fade in such a way..!!. Now,only english fans can rescue KP if they support him(Just remember his 158 runs knock in ashes 05).. WC 2015 is there for the taking if they include KP.. Mark my words..!!!

GauravCricket87
on April 21, 2014, 7:06 GMT

No Matter What!! We love KP here in India. This is English team's biggest loss ever.
Thanks to IPL, we can still see him playing. Way to go KP!!

on April 20, 2014, 20:48 GMT

Not too much regard has been given to all the first-hand comments from members of the touring party along the lines of "he was always first in the nets and last out of them", "no-one works harder on his game than Kevin Pietersen" and "he was always a great help to me and forthcoming with support and advice". OK, they may not be correct word-for-word but they're pretty close...
You pick your best players in a team, full stop. It's up to Managers to manage and players to play. All other teams fear him and respect his talent. As long as Downton has got the player(s) to score Pietersen's runs for him, great, but he hasn't, sadly. Maybe Prior can as he has had so much to say on the subject...

2MikeGattings
on April 20, 2014, 18:10 GMT

"As long as lack of talent or loss of form are not the reasons for his exclusion, the fans will always want to see Pietersen back."

Exactly.

Downton seems to think he picks the team. He doesn't.

Nuxxy
on April 20, 2014, 15:40 GMT

@JG2704: KP has a huge influence in the India win. Do you think top scoring (186) in the second test meant nothing?

steve48
on April 20, 2014, 15:04 GMT

Truth is, none of us commenting know KP, Cook or anyone else involved in this. We don't know who invoked the October gag, leading to all this speculation. We can only judge what we see and what is attributed as direct quote. So what do we know? KP has a history of trouble, true. England were as poor and dispirited as any ashes side any of us can remember, true. And since KP was sacked we know that Giles Clarke has told us to move on, and now Paul Downton has decided KP was disengaged and no longer manageable in a younger, newly forming England under a captain described as 'the future ' despite most of us, experts and fans alike, having grave misgivings about his captaincy, on and off the pitch, all true. But what is really galling to me is Downton making an issue of KP wanting to terminate his contract, having already pointed out it had been decided he would not play for England again! Anyone else have a problem with that being mentioned? What choice did he have? So why say it?

cric1965
on April 20, 2014, 14:29 GMT

Managers are there to handle those players. Not to end player,s carrier.
If managers cannot handle that meand they are in capable. That is managers failure. Not the player.

satyarad
on April 20, 2014, 13:49 GMT

England Lost 5-0 due to lack of quality Bowlers. Stuart, Anderson and Bresnan are no match to Warner in Australia and they can't get Aus wicket keeper quickly. Mitchell scared their batsman like nobody's business.
Also, the tactics of Cook were baffling. it seems that he does not have a Plan-B. And blaming Kevin for the loss is a stupid thing to do. he is still their top scorer in that series. Remember, cricket is still a battle between a batsman and bowler. if the other ENG batsmen does not have talent to play genuine fast bowler(s), then how Kevin is going to resolve it. Pep Talk, team work and coach (Paul Downton - after all) would not help when there is no talent in their batters.

Maverick_26
on April 20, 2014, 13:42 GMT

Things should be kept simple -- People with talent and skills to win matches for their countries SHOULD stay in the team. After all history remembers statistics, Wins and losses. Whats the point of having 11 perfect gentleman in the team who cant compete and win games? I'd rather have 11 players with Ego/attitude issues who are talented enough to deliver results. And I think the words --DISCONNECTED & DISENGAGED are exaggerated here against KP.

JG2704
on April 20, 2014, 13:20 GMT

@Jas.Sohd - Re KP being upset mentally - surely IPL is a great platform for KP to prove a point? If he does well in IPL it's because he still has it and if he doesn't it's because he hasn't
Also re "I honestly think that ECB is aware of the fact that more and more people are going to take KP's side after watching England fail."

I'd like to think people will judge the decision more for why it was made

@wapuser on (April 19 16:31) The rest were just rubbish but not disengaged

@antsaid on (April 19, 2014, 14:24 GMT) No one's saying it was KP's fault. There's obviously more to it than building for the future. Cook has said as much but can't comment for the time being

@flickspin on (April 19, 2014, 14:33 GMT) Don't think they pannicked at all. They stuck with everyone after the UAE debacle - this is an issue between KP and other players

@Greatest_Game on (April 19, 2014, 16:58 GMT) The unexpected success in India was mainly due to 3 men - none of who were KP or FF

AussiePhoenix
on April 20, 2014, 11:50 GMT

There is no doubt KP is still a great batsman, every team celebrates when he gets out because he can destroy an innings. However it is also obvious there is something not there. I suspect it's his ego and self-centredness. Downton is spot on, KP as a senior player did nothing in that Sydney Test to bolster the team. When it was his turn to bat he tried hard, but whatabout the rest of the match?! And if you look over the other tests that attitude was obvious through most of the series, it just got worse as they kept losing. And his behaviour makes it tough for the rest of the team. Not a team player, so he has to miss out. Simple.

lancs-lion
on April 20, 2014, 11:21 GMT

I agree with everything the England management have done and with what they are now saying. The only tragedy is that they did not do all this before the recent Ashes series :-(

Rayfb
on April 20, 2014, 10:49 GMT

It is still totally beyond me that Downton has taken this decision regarding KP. With such an outstanding talent available (and with such limited alternatives) there is no other cricketing nation on earth that would go down this route. None!
Would you tell Roy Hodgson that he could not use Rooney because he is a bit of a bad lad. Would you tell Brendon Rodgers that he could not use Suarez. It's ridiculous! I do not believe, with the possible exception of the captain, that there is an England team member that would not choose to have KP in the side, why, because he is the best, it's simple.
I really thought that the days of crusty old men in silly blazers and even sillier ties deciding that only a certain type of gentleman could represent England at cricket was gone but obviously not. It seems they found another in Paul Downton.

on April 20, 2014, 10:39 GMT

I'm concerned about the influence that some ECB board attitudes have on the England dressing room. They seem to want England players to be quiet, compliant and "on message". Sadly, while these personalities types maybe easy to manage, they're never going to be world beaters.

As an England fan I'm really concerned about the appointment of Paul Downton, and the way that he has conducted business to date. He seems to have come into the role with an agenda based on what can only be a preconceived and second hand understanding of events.

Having said that, I'm excited about some of the young, talented players like Taylor, Robson, Balance & Stokes getting opportunities. Hopefully Paul Downton and the ECB are vindicated in their attitudes by results going forward, although I'm not optimistic.

on April 20, 2014, 10:26 GMT

Funny how the word disengaged has been targeted to one man when you have other players who can be attributed with that term, not to mention an amazing retirement announcement mid tour and the sad situation for Trott. Seems to me that the malaise and discontent was widespread within the team. I guess a new spin doctor is at the helm. There have been many strong and forceful characters in the history of cricket and thank goodness for those characters who have broken records and entertained…..shame that the ECB finds it so hard to integrate and manage such characters in more recent times!

ofcourse
on April 20, 2014, 10:23 GMT

Can't understand why there is so much fuss about it. Yes, KP has been great, but, of late, he has hardly done anything great for the team. So when the team is already in a mess, why should they take the additional pressure of dealing carefully with such a combustible person, who is not even great anymore. England, at last, you got something right!!

on April 20, 2014, 10:16 GMT

Nottingham, Hampshire and England in the list of teams hat are at fault for not "understanding KP". Funny how in all those cases poor KP was so mis-understood, and entire teams, squads, managements and supporters were always wrong and him right.
The common factor in all those cases was KP himself, maybe consider the possibility that HE is the problem and NOT everyone else.

Johnny_129
on April 20, 2014, 10:09 GMT

Why would KP want to play TEST CRICKET when he can concentrate his efforts in the IPL!!?

on April 20, 2014, 10:08 GMT

Second Chance? Real? Are memories THAT short? Pietersen has had a second chance - and a third. The genuine "second chance" was allowing him back after lost him captaincy and took Peter Moores with it. The third was England's biggest mistake, allowing him back after the Strauss betrayal in 2012.
You can't play a team game with an apple as rotten as Pietersen fouling everything.
He is a disgrace to the game. England's biggest folly was not removing him earlier.
time

ooper_cut
on April 20, 2014, 9:47 GMT

I am not convinced yet. Many teams have carried on with such players just because they needed them for the country. This is becoming more and more ridiculous. Only thing I can think of is that England does not like IPL whereas Kevin loves it and probably flaunted it which has hurt the OLD brigade that is running English Cricket. They have lost the only true match winner they ever had after Botham, Gower & Gooch.

electric_loco_WAP4
on April 20, 2014, 9:07 GMT

Absolulely right decision by ECB and mgmt. Team is always bigger. So wont matter anyway.Publish.

ra56
on April 20, 2014, 8:58 GMT

It is england loss i amwatching cricket last 20 yrs apart from enland rvery other nation had produced exciting batsman last 20 yrs but england prduced hussain,atherton,thope,vaughn who take millions of balls to open their account but only pieterson came on seen the world started to watch england baating now they shoot their own foot by disowing peterson. It is england loss peterson will make money all over world by playing 20 20 league even we indians love him so much we can allow him to play for india too he such world class players like viv richard,tendulkar,lara.

on April 20, 2014, 8:44 GMT

very poor ecplanation from Downton.what if you want to build new team for another 3-5 years ? .
See how well SL board treating sanga and jayawardana. See how BCCI deal with Sachin. If you want to build new team , same time you have to make sure that you have better side , and the same time you have to find new talent . If you want to ruin legend career to build new team , what is the use of cricket borad. This is the matter of jelous and complex. I dont there is any batsman in england or in the world who can replace KP. You have to utilize his talent or his caliber to be better side in the world as well as to find new team for future .

argylep
on April 20, 2014, 8:40 GMT

Funny isn't it as Downtown alludes to that when England had a " very strong " No.1 ranked Test side in the world no-one really mentioned KP except to acknowledge his match winning contributions; yet when they started (and continued) losing its all KPs fault!!!

liz1558
on April 20, 2014, 8:32 GMT

The only rational explanation for this guff about KP is that Cook feels betrayed by KP for what he perceived to be a fairly strong criticism of his captaincy or lack of leadership. Cook was the man who got KP back in the side, and probably feels like KP stabbed him in the back. There is no other explanation that explains all the confused and inane ramblings of England management and senior pros. They have made KP a scapegoat for all their problems.
There maybe good reasons for not picking KP. None have been forthcoming.

jayg24
on April 20, 2014, 8:29 GMT

All you people who are still talking about pietersen are the kind of people who are just stuck in the past and are the type who don't move on in life, thank god you guys are not in charge of the England team otherwise there'd be no hope. Pietersen is GONE now from international cricket, just like other greats such as Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting etc. It is a great shame how his international career came to an end but he is GONE now and is not playing for England again, everyone's international career comes to an end at some point whether that be thru self retirement or injury or forced retirement, get over it and move on. Enjoy watching him in the IPL, I certainly will. It is people like you, especially those in the media that keep complaining and looking to the past, these types will never prosper in life.

Jackaa
on April 20, 2014, 8:17 GMT

Once again he ECB has shown its lack of understanding, Boycott did not fit in the team but he was accommodated due to his undoubted talent, KP has been the best player we have ever had but the ego of the ECB decides to get rid of him madness! I would not be surprised to find that the reason Ashley Giles did not get the job was because he favoured a return by KP. It seems the ECB is determined to return English cricket back to the bad old days of being beaten by everybody else, I have tickets for the India tests but may give them away!

on April 20, 2014, 8:14 GMT

Mr. Downton. You didn't mention that you were not focusing on anybody else in that test and that your eyes were fixed on Pietersen. Cos if you did, everyone was disengaged. Stokes made a century, and everyone lauded him like he is a masterclass batsman. What role has he played after that??

What about Cook. I have every respect for him, but even he didn't bring results.

I personally think England players should boycott the matches for getting the management straight.
It is simple. England is losing cos there was no backup team. The domestic environment is not grooming any good player, and it is too conventional for the modern era. And the person who gets the blame, somehow, is KP :|

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
on April 20, 2014, 7:57 GMT

So, put KP fielding way down at fine leg for hours on end and then complain about him being "disengaged". Brilliant!

There's no "I" in team but there certainly is in this bovine-related stuff. Perhaps the most worring thing is that Downton is so disengaged from reality that he actually believes this nonsense.

on April 20, 2014, 7:48 GMT

Pieterson's job was to score runs, In which he failed during the last Ahses series. Though he did not come up to the high standard he has set for himself he was the highest scorer among England players and was second (marginally) only to Ben Stokes (The find of the tour) in averages. I can't understand what engagement this Downton guy wanted from him.

soumyas
on April 20, 2014, 7:38 GMT

Paul Downton got it completely wrong, without KP england are like a bus without engine.

vxttemp
on April 20, 2014, 7:37 GMT

Disengagged? Easy way to wash your hands off. Like someone mentioned what happened to Trott. I can't read the mind of Pieterson but the last time I played a match(not even a club level match), people were so obsessed about winning that they can stoop to any level(Oh yes, we have great steve waugh who set a bad example and also invented a term called mental dis-integrity). I've told my captain and I've just shut my ears, started enjoying and not worrying about the result or paying attention to opponents. Now you watch me now and before, you'll probably use a stronger word than dis-engaged :-) Anyway, Pieterson is one reason why I follow England. Last T20, it was least preferred by me psychologically.

on April 20, 2014, 7:26 GMT

"we hadn't replaced Strauss in 18 months"? Yes you had Mr Downton, but for some reason you discarded the perfectly adequate replacement you found.
As for Pietersen, I'm no admirer of his personality but Downton's explanation of his exclusion still seems pretty inadequate.

SamWintson92
on April 20, 2014, 7:25 GMT

1. Very baseless reasons to terminate the career of KP !
2. What about the words ''Team Ethics'' & ''Team Culture'' ??? Suddenly it's been turned into ''Disengaged'' ! Can't stop laughing. Excellent way to get rid of the Eng batsman & top run scorer for Eng in the patchy Ashes.
3. KP has been made the ''Scapegoat'' to hide the incapability of Eng management.
4. KP isn't old, 33 now. Just look at him & he's got a good number of dominating cricket left in him.
4. KP fans including me will continue fighting for his return in Eng team.

KEVIN PIETERSEN SHOULD BE BROUGHT BACK IN ENGLAND TEAM.

Shahed.Akhtar
on April 20, 2014, 6:59 GMT

It is a matter of man-management and leadership. Ego clashes are there and will be there. You don't sack your best if you are not able to manage him!! Surely, this is English cricket's loss and a huge one at that. Pedagogy is fine, need some pragmatism. England needs talent like Petersen now, more than ever. We have a cricketer with 8000+ Test runs - majority of those scored in counter-punching, unconventional mode. By a fair margin, the best and the most feared English batsman over the last decade and certainly fit to walk in to any test side of the world even today. Thankfully, there are T20 leagues around the world, and hopefully, the fans around the world will enjoy KP's batting while the English cricket management keeps fretting.

Siva_Bala75
on April 20, 2014, 6:49 GMT

Downtown?! This can be and should be resolved between the affected team and KP.

Lakpj
on April 20, 2014, 6:32 GMT

Pieterson on one leg is way better than some of the walkers in this England team. Sacking him Pieterson might be the best and easier option that England had to coverup their failures.

soumyas
on April 20, 2014, 6:25 GMT

Yesterday I was watching him talking to an interviewer at IPL-Dubai, He is such a gem of a person has so much in depth knowledge about cricket, knows how to talk to the media, clear in his visions doesn't hide anything, a flamboyant cricketer . He is a superstar, a complete package, I don't think anybody in England's current side match him.

on April 20, 2014, 6:16 GMT

Why cant he go to Ireland, Scotland , Holland, Zim or even to Sri Lanka and play test cricket again? He must be allowed to earn his living. Cricket is a business now so teams should be allowed to hire professionals, from around the world.( don't mean T20 cricket)This way our younger generations will not be able to witness one of the worlds great cricketing talents. Remember Barry Richards, Mike Proctor,and G Pollock unfortunately we were unable to see their full talent in the test arena.

Clyde
on April 20, 2014, 6:16 GMT

I do not like any of this coach-ridden cricket, whether it is Australia's, at the aggressive end, or England's, at the bureaucratic end. I would prefer a group of discreet and accomplished selectors, a captain with ingenuity and a team of talented players. It matter not a hoot to me that a player is disengaged. Even if someone in the slips is asleep when the ball arrives, if he takes the catch he has played is role. As I understand it, Petersen, the disengaged, talked to Trott about the latter's being overly engaged. I think Mr Downton is both.

pull_shot
on April 20, 2014, 5:46 GMT

Leave every reason behind just think how many people will watch England bat without kevin Pieterson as they have all boring batsman in d world to some extend leave Bell out, not many likes to watch cook,trot,root etc

crazyguru
on April 20, 2014, 5:38 GMT

it's quite natural for somebody to get disconnected after a disastrous series like the ashes

sherishahmir
on April 20, 2014, 5:31 GMT

Sad end of a master class batsman, though he has still a lot to play for England but disciplinary issues and presence of KP impacting as bad on the team mates especially on young players is also matter a lot.

muzika_tchaikovskogo
on April 20, 2014, 5:25 GMT

England have done opposition sides a huge favour.

Rajdeepgupta
on April 20, 2014, 4:31 GMT

Ian Chappell had a tough time dealing with Lilee and Thomo but boy did he manage them so well on the field. What KP does off the field is none of anyone's business so long he was performing. He was the best batsman to play for England in ages and I am sure it will be downhill from here for England unless they get hold of some devil who can give them more KPs :)

electric_loco_WAP4
on April 20, 2014, 4:22 GMT

Absolutely sound like a v sensible,intelligent,straight talking individual with merit and highly talented in management skill and principles-this new MD Downtown.Must be a high profile mgmt. alumnus.Wish so called ruling head-ICC-had more such.

crktttt
on April 20, 2014, 3:43 GMT

KP was not the captain/vice-captain of the team. He, probably is supposed to be disengaged a little bit.
Dropping players for not doing homework, ending careers for being disengaged or not being social, should be things that set off alarm bells.

anuradea
on April 20, 2014, 3:43 GMT

First of all England can not afford to lose KP. The saying Beggers can not be choses is true to the word with England. When you have no money in the bank and the only asset you have is your house, you DO NOT burn it to the ground!!!!! Where is the English asset pool in batting. Just take a look at what happened at T20 WC. They even lost to the Dutch??? Isn't there anyone who can manage him in England, what a pity. As they would always say there are no bad workers, only bad managers. Please get either Clive Lloyd or mike Brealey to have leadership seminars for all the potential leaders to teach how to manager difficult players as there always be difficult players. Usually the superstars are extremely demanding and it is a special talent to manage them. My advice to Moores is get KP back in make his role absolutely clear and be strong if he steps out of line. The other problem England has is the senior players being too opinionated and everyone wants to be the captain.

on April 20, 2014, 3:24 GMT

Very convenient for Downton to use a vague word like "disengaged" while assigning blame to KP. What does it mean? Were his performances below par, or was he just forgetful? In any case, if they had to dump one man from the England side, that man was Pietersen? Really?

on April 20, 2014, 2:53 GMT

I love how the English management makes the West Indies' look soooooo professional. They actually copied the windies now for India to dump Virat and Australia to dump Clarke all will be equal in cricket again

on April 20, 2014, 2:50 GMT

I must say I am looking forward to when KP writes his autobiography - should be a great read.

on April 20, 2014, 2:48 GMT

englang are lost their key two batsmen within the one series. stii there is no replcement this is good new,s for sl, and india

on April 20, 2014, 2:28 GMT

Paul Downton? And he somehow thinks he is qualified enough (cricketing intelligence, psychology of top level cricket player, international playing experience, talent wise ) to comment on this? Really administration makes mountains out of moles. And he does make it clear why he, the pathetically ordinary cricketer, has the temerity to say this: he watched every bloody ball of a bloody test match. Wonder of wonders! Nobody in bloody history has ever done it eh? Perhaps that thing called Downton Abbey has given Paul illusions of grandeur.

bjcm12
on April 20, 2014, 2:24 GMT

Was Cook engaged in the series ? This is all scrap and I think England will not be able to raise the head for some time. Cook is a good batter but very immature to captain England.He should command respect from KP not demand. It simply shows his immaturity - God save the queens boyz.

Mr.CricketJKNotHussey
on April 20, 2014, 2:06 GMT

This is quite weird. That tour was an abysmal one for England. EVERYONE looked dejected and disconnected. After the first two tests it seemed like the team had given up and were just waiting for defeat. So to single out KP is ridiculous. Yes, he is not the easiest man to deal with but come on, that is the job of the board and the coach. You need to bring the best out of your players and KP was the absolute best they had. If they can't handle a guy who expresses his opinion, how can they hope to do well on the international stage? Besides, KP was the best English batsman of the tour. Even if he was "disconnected" it just proves how good a player he is since he outscored all his teammates without even caring. England needs to look at their real problem, the suffocating coaching atmosphere and the lack of spirit in the squad. They need someone like KP to lead the way out of this rut.

Sir_Francis
on April 20, 2014, 1:45 GMT

As an australian I love this. KP was there best batsman. And all the 'excuses' used have not been shown to the public. Only the dressing room knows the truth (and several have come out in KP's favour - Not the older players though)

As Ian Chappell said, you do accommodate great players (within reason). Nothing I've read suggests permanent sacking. Not even the texting "scandal". If that had happened to an australian captain it would have been sorted out within 10 minutes with a private discussion and a black eye.

Quite happy about it as, so far, no one in County cricket looks that good (as for Robson, there is a reason none of the Shield teams ever offered him a contract).

dlpthomas
on April 20, 2014, 1:02 GMT

I'm confused. Downton says that "we decided not to select him" but then seems to contradict himself by saying it was Pietersen that wanted to "terminate his contract". Which is it?

baranasai
on April 20, 2014, 1:00 GMT

The attitude of Downton and Moorres it is really bad.If he has not engaged he should have been given an opportunity to mend his ways.
The selectors have done a very bad job here. They did not want any body to talk open and honest.
They sacrified a very good player and justified their stand. It is a bad decision .People like Swann Prior as senior players did not get this treatment.
KPS verage was much better than Cook. But management is trying to justify a one sided poor decision. OnlyTime will tell whay England will miss because of dropping KP

cloudmess
on April 20, 2014, 0:52 GMT

Kays789 you hit the nail exactly on the head, and I say that as a long-suffering England supporter. There is something in the way the ECB has behaved over these past 3 or so months (culminating in the appointment of Moores) which has made me see - as never before before - why England will always be a mediocre, underachieving side.

njr1330
on April 20, 2014, 0:46 GMT

If Pietersen was so disengaged , how come he was still there at the end of the tour , which of course, several others, we're not.

on April 20, 2014, 0:24 GMT

This reminds me of Brian Lara and the West Indies Cricket Board...... sad ending to a great International career.

kensohatter
on April 20, 2014, 0:20 GMT

Absolute disgrace. He was Englands top runscorer in Australia so hardly see how that makes him disengaged. England are a joke at present and the whole world knows it. They havnt got long till a revitalised Australian side come to the English shores hell bent on destroying them at home. I actually think KP will be relieved. Sure he will miss out on his goal of 10,000 runs but this way his legacy is safe

on April 19, 2014, 23:50 GMT

"announcing a new era for English cricket." yes, by bring back a coach who failed in his first stint.... that isn't a new era, it's simply rewinding an old and failed era...I also wonder at Paul Downton's suitability for the job as managing director of England given his completely inability to maintain objectivity or partiality in his targeted criticisms of Pietersen? Flower, Cook, Prior and Swann did more self harm to England's confidence and psyche during that Ashes tour than anything Kevin could muster

Hrolf
on April 19, 2014, 23:45 GMT

ECB management complaining about KP's personality is like Basil Fawlty complaining about guests that interfere with the running of his hotel

Digimont
on April 19, 2014, 23:41 GMT

The only interpretation I can place on "disengaged" is "failing to tow the party line". KP (much that I have disliked him over the years), was the only player it seems to stand up both on and off the field in Australia. Perhaps that was the problem..perhaps the current management want a weak, therefore controllable group of players. They couldn't drop KP, so they had to sack him. The side may be down, may take years to recover, but at least Downtown and Moores will be in control. Perhaps that's all that matters to them?

on April 19, 2014, 23:32 GMT

It is very interesting what Paul Downton says. "Everyone deserves a second chance" but then says no KP. The man in two sentences has proved he is a joke. What about Matt Prior? Scored no runs - dropped catches - and that is ok? What about Cook? Was his captaincy prefect? I think not... Who scored the most runs in that Ashes series? Oh... it was KP.... Makes no sense - just like ECB management.

Our middle order is in tatters. Trott who was a stabilizing influence has gone, and so has England's best player. We were told we can't go back - and that England cricket should move forwards - yet we go back to Moores. When we should have gone back to Onions, he was overlooked. Was that Pietersen's fault too? No - they just don't have a clue in how to manage.

If Moores was "the best coach of his generation" then why was he sacked by the ECB in the first place? And how the hell did someone like Downton get the job anyway- most of the commenters here could do a better job

phermon
on April 19, 2014, 23:22 GMT

It's very kind of KP but I am not at all sure that Petrer Moores deserves a second chance - I suspect he'll prove to be Downton's Abyss.
I want David Gower so we can have some fun again

on April 19, 2014, 22:42 GMT

If ECB accomadate a captain who can't get the best from every player towards the team then there will be more firing required. KP is not the best team man but he can solely win matches for England so it's the talent of the captain to manage KP differently and use his talent! KP is gone but the future will tell if ENG problems are over or starting just now!

The_other_side
on April 19, 2014, 22:14 GMT

Time for reasonable people to disengage from this topic!! From the looks of it ECB wants to move without KP, whether or not they can give a good reason. KP should look elsewhere for professional returns!! Unless KP can bend the ECB elbow by legal or other means he is nowhere in team picture....

More and more this is turning into a farce!!

Jas.Sohd
on April 19, 2014, 21:44 GMT

I honestly think that ECB is aware of the fact that more and more people are going to take KP's side after watching England fail. I have been a hard core fan of England since I started watching cricket but thanks to ECB's repeated stupidity I am not exited about my team for first time in my life. ECB know they are a failure but instead of accepting it they'll keep blaming players. They know that KP is injured and hurt mentally, these fake statements are only given to upset him mentally so he'll fail in IPL and ECB can say that they were right. I watched every match of Ashes and he was the only one who seemed concerned and connected. It was every one else who looked disengaged especially the "Captain".

on April 19, 2014, 21:28 GMT

If Andy Flower was already talking of KP's future during the Sydney test, was it not a clear give away that the team was already split? Different people react differently for different situations and if KP's reaction was to remain detached, its makes perfect sense!!! Why is that ONLY KP is penalized for people falling out with each orher. KP may have had problems ine past, but that doesn't always mean that he would be the only one guilty one. To not enquire the issue fully and keep KP out is ECB's worst decision ever.

on April 19, 2014, 21:23 GMT

Paul Downton thinks Kevin Pietersen had become disengaged? What did he think about Trott and Swan, who actually quit the team, at a time when they were needed most. What about Cook, who never measured up as a captain. Anderson, whose bowling was so inept, it was bordering on laughable and embarrassing. I think Mr. Downton was a bit disingenuous in making such a remark, pertaining to one of the best and most exciting batsmen in the world. Heh, I guess some one has to take the fall. Why Pietersen?? The one player who left that disastrous Australian tour feeling he had done his job well, was Stokes. Sack Cook and turn the captaincy over to Stokes. You said you are moving forward with the future of English Cricket in mind. Stokes is the future! I guess you can't sack every player, so KP had to be the scapegoat... I'm a Windies fan; the 3W's, Headley, Sobers, Kanhai, Richards, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes, Lloyd. KP is just as enter as my heroes. I hate to see him go out this way.

on April 19, 2014, 21:08 GMT

KP move to the Caribbean they well selected you to play test cricket. And with you in that team we become a power house.

on April 19, 2014, 21:03 GMT

It is simple. They wanted rid of KP so they all looked at his performances and on field body language in a manner to back what they convinced themselves was the way forward.

KP is bigger than team/non team england , england get over it or do you wish the cricketing world to continue to laugh at you ?

on April 19, 2014, 20:57 GMT

Who cares whether the KP is "disengaged" if he can get out there and slam a whirlwind ton in a hurry to change the course of a game. The issue here is not KP, it is the distinct inability of England coaches to man-manage.

Every team has a player or two who are considered 'disruptive' or Maverick. But they can be kept under control by skillful player management. This is clearly lacking in English cricket.

History is replete with examples of "KPs", but you do not let them dictate the future of your master plan and goals!

bobmartin
on April 19, 2014, 20:55 GMT

@ Martensad ... ""Disengaged" Pietersen topped the English batting averages in that series." 294 runs for an average of 29.40 ? Hardly much of an achievement was it ? And where was this mercurial matchwinner you all keep telling us he is.. when we needed him most ?

Eroticken
on April 19, 2014, 20:43 GMT

The house always wins/have i'ts way. Very little empathy for the one deemed the bad egg. Gotten rid of the bad influence, have you solved the problem? I guess they already working on the plausible excuses.

phermon
on April 19, 2014, 20:36 GMT

wapuser, I certainly agree about Cook - standing hour after hour in slips - expressionless and glazed eyes.
Looks like the ECB have found a way to push England off the shelf and back where they were for so many years. Damn and I was enjoying them winning so much!

on April 19, 2014, 20:32 GMT

Love it, you have a disengaged senior player. Do you:

a) Analyse why he is disengaged and what has gone wrong in your elite player management

b) Sack him because its easier

Thanks chaps, just when I thought we couldn't look any more of a laughing stock...

CricketforOlympics
on April 19, 2014, 20:16 GMT

Judging KP's commitments. One of the most talented and versatile batsmen of the present Era. What a shame! People need to grow up really. p,s He has lots of fans in India.

on April 19, 2014, 20:00 GMT

Stop finding a scapegoat ECB! KP has done wonders and I see England going to depths that we currently see Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in unless you find the real faults of the team. If KP wasn't world class wouldn't you think by now us cricket fans would stop talking about him. Not only are we but opposition teams even want to see him play!

on April 19, 2014, 19:53 GMT

i would love to see him play for India . .
he is a wonderful cricketer . .
love to watch him bat ..

Jas.Sohd
on April 19, 2014, 19:49 GMT

I honestly think that ECB is aware of the fact that more and more people are going to take KP's side after watching England fail. I have been a hard core fan of England since I started watching cricket but thanks to ECB's repeated stupidity I mean not exited about my team for first time in my life. ECB know they are a failure but instead of accepting it they'll keep blaming players. They know that KP is injured and hurt mentally, these fake statements are only given to upset him mentally so he'll fail in IPL and ECB can say that they were right. I watched every match of Ashes and he was the only one who seemed concerned and connected. It was every one else who looked disengaged especially the "Captain".

on April 19, 2014, 19:49 GMT

Maybe English cricket is suffering the same way West Indies cricket does. Too much pride by officials. What does the ECB have to lose? It's either he learns his lesson or not. If he does learn it, English cricket may get a boost, if it doesn't, they'll probably be in the same situation.

on April 19, 2014, 19:34 GMT

Downton seems a bit confused here. He says " he was the one, in the end, who wanted to terminate his contract". Then "It was decided that wouldn't happen with Kevin in the side. We decided not to select him." Which?

brahms
on April 19, 2014, 19:28 GMT

Was KP disengaged from the team or was the team disengaged from him ? How often did Cook seek his opinion on anything ? Very little by all accounts, yet he is a player of vast experience. One has to wonder whether KP would have made a better job of the captaincy than Cook.

However, as there is no going back and as there are now several vacancies in the team, why not look for a good captain. There are some about on the county circuit. Think of Gale who does a great job for Yorkshire, is a decent bat, and the right sort of age.

gaga001
on April 19, 2014, 19:28 GMT

The story of kevin is quite similar with previous indian captain saurav ganguli, when he was dropped from the indian side, kevin is right that every one deserve second chance but to make comeback in second chance is not easy as ganguly also faultered in second chance.

soumyas
on April 19, 2014, 19:20 GMT

England team need KP more than he needs to get selected...

bhriguaneja
on April 19, 2014, 19:17 GMT

Cant wait for October. All this doesn't seem enough to finish the career of one of the most gifted batters of the world.

on April 19, 2014, 19:10 GMT

World Is Laughing At Engliand Cricket Management of Mis Handeling KP... More Funny is to recuirt Peter Morres Who has a Horrobile & Ridicullous Tenoure As England Coach 1st time around.... There are So Many Best candidate for England Coach .. U can go for Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart, Darren Gough, Graham Thorpe... etc... They r much much capable of taking England cricket team forward.. But Peter Morres Appoitment is Just Ridiculous... And One More Thing That: Without Kevin Pietersen England Cricket Will be No where .. Just Forget 2015 World Cup.. They Will be Humilated by their group teams .. So Wake Up ECB be4 its too late......

on April 19, 2014, 18:52 GMT

Yes,When Kevin smashed THAT century in THAT 2005 Ashes series then everyone was busy getting drunk and celebrating....cheering him and toasting him...since then England have won Ashes both at home and away in their best spell over the old enemy...ask any Aussie player which Englishman he fears the most and its obvious the answer would be KP....Amazing how one is made a scapegoat to preserve a super weak and tactically hopeless captain.

Paulk
on April 19, 2014, 18:47 GMT

Kevin Pietersen is obviously not everyone's cup of tea and deserves much or at least half the blame I am sure but to my mind he has been made the scapegoat for the Ashes debacle. I am sure he was very disengaged in Sydney but that is not an unnatural response to a heavy series defeat, if not the healthiest one. If he was feeling disengaged the other side of the coin is perhaps he was alienated by the senior personnel in the team and management. Faults on both sides. In all that has been written on this issue two quotes stood out for me - one was by Chris Gayle "It was disrespectful to KP and it was disrespectful to cricket fans" and the other was my Mark Nicholas who wrote that what shocked him was the gall and the sheer extreme and finality of the decision. (Paraphrasing on both of those.)

DJRNZ
on April 19, 2014, 18:47 GMT

England are on a massive downward spiral. So if anyone speaks out and goes against the grain do they be made an example of? As a Black Caps fan I'd love to see England at the bottom of the table but I will miss KP. A brilliant player and England will not replace him with anyone else for a number of years.

Raymond92
on April 19, 2014, 18:30 GMT

Downton is the downfall of English Cricket. He has no idea what he is saying or doing. Dropping your best player then failing horribly in the next two series looks hilarious. Garbage management means a garbage team. Hopefully there isn't too much pressure on guys like Robson. P.s Moeen Ali isnt the future of England, he looks really average.

England can never manage charismatic players well , there cricket lack flair , i bet England without Player like Kevin is going back dead duck era of 90s Aussie will hunt them down easily.Cook has really crooked his team of such great player shame Cook, Shame England Cricket administration. International Cricket is becoming boring without character like Kevin and Warne

Harmony111
on April 19, 2014, 18:23 GMT

By the logic of Mr Downtown, Jonathon Trott should never ever play for England again. Also, he should criticize Graeme Swann for abandoning his team midway. Captain Cook himself was no example of dynamism in that tour. What about all these Mr Downtown huh?

A little thought shows us how Mr Downtown contradicting what was said earlier. We were told that KP was a bit too critical in a team meeting and that was the main reason why he was forcefully retired. Why would someone who has a I-don't-care-a-damn attitude would want to criticize so harshly? Won't he simply keep quiet?

willsrustynuts
on April 19, 2014, 18:14 GMT

So this is it? This is the BIG revelation....'there is no smoking gun' and 'there was no single issue'.

No player is more important than the team but to say there is no way back for any player is too rich and suggests this has been a personal vendetta by the greater management team.

Never mind, one day soon England could have a fantastic management set-up but no players of note.

yorkshire-86
on April 19, 2014, 17:41 GMT

Pietersen was far more 'engaged' than the woeful Cook, who seemed unable to bat, field, captain a side with any competence, nor get the best out of the most talented player in the team. Any other team Cook would never captain again, and would have to do a LOT at domestic level to even be allowed back in the ranks. Yet here 'nice men' like Cook, Giles, Moores and some random guy that had the odd test as an average keeper in the mid 80s and seems to have risen above everyone, seem to be favoured. 2 years time it will all happen agin, and that time they will have no option other than to beg for KP back. Remember KP is only 4 years older than Cook...

Rally_Windies
on April 19, 2014, 17:31 GMT

There should be no room for Managers who cannot Manage....

"just saying" ....

you are supposed to pick you best 11, and then manage them ...

you are NOT supposed to pick your "nicest and friendliest and easiest to work with 11" , and then try to make them better cricketers ....

That is what ECB is doing ..
(WICB as well) ....
They are picking players who will make "management" (i.e their jobs) EASY ....
Wining and playing good cricket is "secondary" in nature .

on April 19, 2014, 17:30 GMT

What a farce!England should be so lucky to have a player like Pietersen amidst its rank again.Too bad for KP, he atleast deserved a farewell series from where he could have bid adieu to his cricketing career and his fans.Its disheartening to see his great career being ended like this.

steelbackderek
on April 19, 2014, 17:24 GMT

Pietersen is only concerned with KP this was proved at Notts, Hants and England. Strauss, a good captain and a very decent fellow was driven to distractions with issues and KP's childishness was the straw that broke the camel's back. Have been told by cricketers that he is the most disliked player on the cricket scene. Took lot of guts to drop a man who has been successful but in the end it is the right thing

southstoke49
on April 19, 2014, 17:23 GMT

Surely not finding the best candidates for the England job after 3 months of trying shows an amount of disengagement.

Against this benchmark how can they justify the inclusion of any batsman who had a lower average than KP (oh that's everyone) ever again?

godshand
on April 19, 2014, 17:15 GMT

Its clear - majority want KP to be out for their vested interest. English cricket RIP since KP won't be allowed to play for them !!!!!!!

Nadeem1976
on April 19, 2014, 17:12 GMT

cricket is because of good cricketers. start respecting cricketers please Big 3.

Dragonboyz
on April 19, 2014, 17:09 GMT

I think this is where I will appreciate Pointing because he was leading mercurial characters like Shane warne, Andrew Symonds(only later stage of his career he was penalized), Hayden et al. It is the duty of the captain to manage your star players. Cook is not a natural leader and remember the big wins in test matches in India is all because of the superb knock of KP test win in Sri Lanka KP played a part, Ashes in 2005 is by great match saving knock of KP.Look the England team which arrived for T20 Championship it is a joke and no impact players except Hales and to certain extent Morgan. KP is a match winner and no one in the near future in England team will create the impact that KP had. ECB pressed the self destruction mode but the cricket fans all over the world will be suffering without seeing the quality of KP's batting. Let these Boparas, Trott, Cook who doesn't have mental strength when the situation goes tough rule the England cricket

cricketeria
on April 19, 2014, 17:05 GMT

This is nothing but a failure of English (cricketing) culture. Tolerate meek mediocrity but not brash brilliance. Pietersen, the one immigrant who refused, nay transcended the mother country's rules. Cooks and Flowers sought the usual curtsies but would get lip and switch hits instead. I'm sorry England, you just lost the greatest player you ever had. Ever had.

Greatest_Game
on April 19, 2014, 16:58 GMT

@ simon_w writes "England will move on; the team will continue to win series and lose series, to have unexpected successes and unexpected failures -- this is called sport."

Unfortunately, a slight correction is required, Simon. I think it a better reflection of modern English cricket history to write "England will move on; the team will continue to lose series and have occasional unexpected successes. This is called 'English Cricket as Usual."

Those "occasional unexpected successes" are always accompanies by standout players such as Flintoff or Pietersen, or tough, canny skippers like Strauss.

Not even his most ardent supporters would call Cook a "tough or canny!" England has no standout, inspirational players left. Expect business as usual as long as the ECB management continues shooting the team in both feet.

AnthonyNo1
on April 19, 2014, 16:52 GMT

What utter tripe - every time Downton speaks - he makes this whole KP thing worse for the ECB. The only person that should have been sacked was the coach who was 100% responsible for the debacle down under.

amitgarg78
on April 19, 2014, 16:50 GMT

True enough that KP has had his time.
And it's been a great ride.
But his career will probably also go down in history as one of the worst managed. ECB has been just inept.
If the intent is to build a team for the future then let's start ground up and move cook out of his captaincy. His leadership is already looking weak. Strong leadership that downton alludes to, can't be built on the pillars of such weakness. He's a good bloke, just not the captain type. The blame game with KP is doing neither side any credit. The team needs to move on and that should mean players like prior too are let go. Only then will it feel the talk is serious on rebuilding and this is not just an anti-KP move from the establishment where he's made few friends.

Edward_de_Coonghe
on April 19, 2014, 16:44 GMT

KP has been a mercurial cricketer for England. But cricket is a team game. KP has never been a team man. He has had many conflicts with leadership. He should not be allowed to destroy the team. England is right in dumping him. Paul Downtown has showed guts.

on April 19, 2014, 16:31 GMT

Get a grip and ECB for goodness sake. If KP was disengaged what about cook, swan, prior and co????

on April 19, 2014, 16:29 GMT

'to discuss openly what had gone wrong and it is where Pietersen is understood to have been the most vocal voice in the room'...and how dare he do so! Let's discuss openly, let's be frank BUT...DON'T discuss openly and don't whatever you do, be frank. The mind boggles

on April 19, 2014, 16:21 GMT

What a complete joke. Pietersen disagreed with the coaching and captaincy....So what? Is critisicm never constructive? Cook's captaincy was appalling and the coaching obviously failed considering how many of the players broke mentally. Poor form England. You'll never have a player of that quality again for the next 10 years at least

Martensad
on April 19, 2014, 16:07 GMT

"Disengaged" Pietersen topped the English batting averages in that series. How "engaged" was Cook, for example, when he was batting?

sir.rajas
on April 19, 2014, 15:39 GMT

Kevin Pietersen's vocal voice in the players' team meeting itself is enough evidence that he still cared about the team. This has also been evident from other players' remarks as well. So to say that KP was disengaged is, I feel, wrong.

Sure, I understand that there were issues, but nothing can be serious enough to terminate the career of your most talented batsman. This is failure on the part of the England management and leadership.

on April 19, 2014, 15:30 GMT

I think its a little harsh to punish a man who when others where retiring mid series, stuck it out and fought on. In the midst of a walloping like the one that England received down under, heads are bound to be lost, its only normal. Criticism and scrutiny are bound to happen. The problem in this matter is the model of English Cricket Administration, one that accepts no challenges (a dictatorship of sorts). He aired his honest opinion on the flaws of the team structure and management. Given the context (in the midst of a walloping) and the status of the man (senior player) they probably should have listened. Now English Cricket is a circus, give KP24 a fitting farewell please!!

simon_w
on April 19, 2014, 15:18 GMT

so much hyperbole and over-reaction on these boards. KP was an excellent player, no question, but you'd think the world had ended! England will move on; the team will continue to win series and lose series, to have unexpected successes and unexpected failures -- this is called sport.

PratUSA
on April 19, 2014, 15:14 GMT

Very funny. My only memory of Paul Downton is him touring India on 1984-85 tour as English wicketkeeper. If I was old enough than maybe I could learn what "engaging" really means. I wonder some could say Dhoni is disengaged often as he almost never reacts or screams on cricket field. On the other hand if Pietersen's alleged outrage in players meeting was one big factor, how come a disengaged player cares to voice his views so forcefully to make everyone mad?

Kays789
on April 19, 2014, 15:09 GMT

Boy, does the English management know how to entertain or what? They needed a scapegoat after getting pummeled to the ground in Australia, and they turned to KP. English cricket has shown everyone over the years that they love to run away from issues (think of all the quitters in the recent past) rather than man up and take responsibility for failure. Clearly there's no hope for these softies for the foreseeable future.

Dunross
on April 19, 2014, 15:01 GMT

Disengaged?...even Graeme Swann ( not a fan of KP) pointed out that Kevin was very supportive to the team????

Front-Foot-Lunge-Needs-A-Hug
on April 19, 2014, 14:37 GMT

If Moores had any savvy as an international coach (which he doesn't), his first pick would be KP. The England talent pool is so empty it isn't funny. I guess this approach has the next 2-3 Ashes series decided, 5-0 to Australia every time.

chsj
on April 19, 2014, 14:35 GMT

This can be the last resort when one runs out of managerial arguments when no tangible reasons can be given. How would one player out of 11, out of the good books of powers, 'engage' other than doing his part - the drills and trying to do his individual bit as best as allowed by his strengths and opposing team.

flickspin
on April 19, 2014, 14:33 GMT

england have panicked and over re-acted

after a 5-0 defeat everything that made them in the top 3 cricket nation has been disregarded.

they have 2 years to plan the next ashes.

after australia beat the west indies in the early 1970's clive lloyd wanted revenge, he found the most aggresive fast bowling line up in the west indies.

what england need to win the next ashes is.

1 out and out aggressive fast bowler who bowls 150kph,1 aggresive powerful opening batsmen( the poms opening batsmen barely hit the ball outside the circle), 1 batsmen like kevin pietersen who can turn a game in 1 hour, 1 decent spin bowler, and a keeper batsmen who can score runs. and a new number 3 who can bat for hours.

you can build a team around cook,bell,stokes,broad and anderson( who will be 35 in the next ashes)

england should tell every first class side they are after these positions.

harris,rodgers,haddin watson,johnson and clarke will be 35 by the next ashes so australia have to think aswell

CricLook
on April 19, 2014, 14:31 GMT

ECB setup is destroying the English cricket once again. England will surely will be back to nineties when they only could manage defeat in ashes and there participation on global events are only for representation purpose. people love to smile at them for being the inventor of the game but don't know how to compete. They appointed Mores only to prevent Pietersen come back. Bailey would be great choice. RIP English cricket! Feeling for the English fans who only able watch to something different, unconventional winning because of Pietersen, Flintoff, Collingwood and co. Neither of them are now present and they have a captain without guts who take shelter of the administrators to hide his own failure both as a player and a captain.

on April 19, 2014, 14:29 GMT

We are now in a period of English cricket which will be christened PP or post Pietersen. We have to expect a period of poor results this summer but the main thing will be the progress of players like Robson, Ali, Stokes etc. I'm not exactly sure that Peter Moores is the man to inspire this new England but the decision hasbeen made.

on April 19, 2014, 14:25 GMT

I feel the same as most of the folks who have commented here. I watched the matches too, and on the field, KP seems to be competitive as usual. There is definitely more in this that what is the official word - KP has obviously run into trouble for speaking his mind. Hope he can make a comeback.

on April 19, 2014, 14:25 GMT

KP should be back but looks like his sacking is a blessing in disguise for him. England cricket is a sinking ship. New era is a distant dream. First of all England cricket will plunge into more dismal abyss.

antsaid
on April 19, 2014, 14:24 GMT

Being a South African who lived in England for 15 years there is no love lost between KP and myself. Much to the disgust of most of my friends back in South Africa, over the years living in the UK I got heavily invested in the fortunes of the national teams, I was fully invested in the run to rugby World Cup glory in 2003 and remember vividly sitting in my car in a campsite in the mountains of Wales listening to a barely audible broadcast of the Ashes in 2005 willing the team on victory, those were some of my mist memorable sporting moments.In contrast to that was my dissatisfaction with the need to find a scape goat for failure. Be it Beckham after his World Cup failure or some other poor bugger who the press felt was the appointed reason for any failure, the inability to accept a loss as a collective failure and move on was very disappointing. As the often say in Blighty ' C'mon England', it was not KPs fault that you lost the ashes, the team were beaten by a more motivated group.

Jadejafan
on April 19, 2014, 14:22 GMT

I swear KP had more than 2 chances? fact is with KP around there are always problems and ECB decided best to move on and build for the future simple as that.

on April 19, 2014, 14:20 GMT

Disengaged? He was the best batsmen for England in that forgetful ashes. They will know the value of kp when they come to subcontinent.

computerguru
on April 19, 2014, 14:15 GMT

I've a gut feeling that Downtown was watching another FC game at Australia, where he was observing some KP look-alike. Because in the last match he is referring to, actually only KP showed intent to fight among the English bunch.

on April 19, 2014, 14:11 GMT

England problem was that going into the Ashes down under they probably had 5 players who could be considered some of the best to ever play for England. I just wonder if the hunger was still their for a few of them, did they still want to do all the gritty less glamourous bit which are required for success.

On KP, I think England just was a 34 year old with a knee condition whose hand eye co-ordination is only going to get worse with age refusing to make any ajustments. I got the impression that he was passing himself fit because it was test cricket and it was the Ashes.

jmcilhinney
on April 19, 2014, 14:08 GMT

There will still be those who claim that they are owed an explanation, even though it's been stated several times that both parties cannot discuss the matter until October and KP would have been party to implementing that restriction. No matter what anyone says, there's no way that we fans are ever going to know what was really going on in the dressing room. Noone can deny that controversy was never far away when KP was involved, whether or not it was always his fault. The fact is that he's gone and the appointment of Moores should put to rest speculation of his returning.

drinks.break
on April 19, 2014, 14:07 GMT

Pietersen will always win the PR battle on this one, because fans just want to see the best players playing, and not to watch the invisible hand of the back-room staff as they manipulate the pawns on the paddock.

As long as lack of talent or loss of form are not the reasons for his exclusion, the fans will always want to see Pietersen back.

on April 19, 2014, 14:06 GMT

A player is still only 1 part of 11. You get the very occasional cricketer who exceeds human limit and expectation, like Sachin, Warne, Lara, Kallis and Muralitharan, but for the most part, they're simply a good player who is capable of the occasional moment of brilliance. And KP, for all his bravado, confidence and self-belief, is not in the same category as the afore-mentioned champions.

I am a huge KP fan, but for me, his downturn came with his loss of captaincy. Captaincy requires not only confidence, but the confidence of your team... And he lost that, the minute his ego became bigger than his potential.

It's a shame. A little more humility could have taken him a long way.

BDKu
on April 19, 2014, 14:00 GMT

'During those ten years we had a strong side, strong leadership in terms of established captains and coaches, and that side could accommodate Kevin. '
This statement sums it all. You need strong leadership to manage strong characters lack of strong leadership is not a players fault. One sure sign of weak leadership is to eliminate strong characters.

bobmartin
on April 19, 2014, 14:00 GMT

"The sooner we understand that Kevin has had his time, the better. We are moving on without him. We sat down, talked through it over a number of hours and he was the one, in the end, who wanted to terminate his contract and we came to an agreement to do that." It appears that he wasn't "sacked" after all.. So... there's a different viewpoint from the one all the Pietersen admirers have.. But.. how come Pietersen is quoted as wanted to play for England again.. Has he had second thoughts ? Since if he's the one that supposedly walked away, I can't see the ECB welcoming him back.. and even more so with Moores in charge given what happened the last time they "worked" together..

Bansam
on April 19, 2014, 13:59 GMT

Downton will be the DOWNTURN of English cricket. KP should be happy he will not be in a dying side.

DarthKetan
on April 19, 2014, 13:53 GMT

How can you call him disengaged and at the same time blame him for being 'most vocal voice' on a meeting. Could it be that the repercussions of being vocal (when he trusted the forum to be honest and have integrity) led him to be disengaged? Either way, it's the stuffy England management and/or the captain to blame....they've botched the career of a great talent and as a result their own prospects. Eng will probably continue to be good at home, but will struggle against good opposition as they miss their difference maker. Sigh!

Spotslover
on April 19, 2014, 13:49 GMT

I am totaly agree with KP that ever1 deserves 2nd chance,not only England need KP back infact the game of Cricket needs player like KP to play more cricket.
I wish he will comeback in cricktet worldcup 2015 with a bang.

Nuxxy
on April 19, 2014, 13:47 GMT

Did we watch the same series? Pietersen was one of the few who actually seemed to want to compete, who didn't want to roll over and die. The rest of the English players - well they all packed it in the same time as Swann, they just stayed longer.

FawltyBean
on April 19, 2014, 13:41 GMT

Disengaged how? We watched the same match Downton is talking about.

No featured comments at the moment.

FawltyBean
on April 19, 2014, 13:41 GMT

Disengaged how? We watched the same match Downton is talking about.

Nuxxy
on April 19, 2014, 13:47 GMT

Did we watch the same series? Pietersen was one of the few who actually seemed to want to compete, who didn't want to roll over and die. The rest of the English players - well they all packed it in the same time as Swann, they just stayed longer.

Spotslover
on April 19, 2014, 13:49 GMT

I am totaly agree with KP that ever1 deserves 2nd chance,not only England need KP back infact the game of Cricket needs player like KP to play more cricket.
I wish he will comeback in cricktet worldcup 2015 with a bang.

DarthKetan
on April 19, 2014, 13:53 GMT

How can you call him disengaged and at the same time blame him for being 'most vocal voice' on a meeting. Could it be that the repercussions of being vocal (when he trusted the forum to be honest and have integrity) led him to be disengaged? Either way, it's the stuffy England management and/or the captain to blame....they've botched the career of a great talent and as a result their own prospects. Eng will probably continue to be good at home, but will struggle against good opposition as they miss their difference maker. Sigh!

Bansam
on April 19, 2014, 13:59 GMT

Downton will be the DOWNTURN of English cricket. KP should be happy he will not be in a dying side.

bobmartin
on April 19, 2014, 14:00 GMT

"The sooner we understand that Kevin has had his time, the better. We are moving on without him. We sat down, talked through it over a number of hours and he was the one, in the end, who wanted to terminate his contract and we came to an agreement to do that." It appears that he wasn't "sacked" after all.. So... there's a different viewpoint from the one all the Pietersen admirers have.. But.. how come Pietersen is quoted as wanted to play for England again.. Has he had second thoughts ? Since if he's the one that supposedly walked away, I can't see the ECB welcoming him back.. and even more so with Moores in charge given what happened the last time they "worked" together..

BDKu
on April 19, 2014, 14:00 GMT

'During those ten years we had a strong side, strong leadership in terms of established captains and coaches, and that side could accommodate Kevin. '
This statement sums it all. You need strong leadership to manage strong characters lack of strong leadership is not a players fault. One sure sign of weak leadership is to eliminate strong characters.

on April 19, 2014, 14:06 GMT

A player is still only 1 part of 11. You get the very occasional cricketer who exceeds human limit and expectation, like Sachin, Warne, Lara, Kallis and Muralitharan, but for the most part, they're simply a good player who is capable of the occasional moment of brilliance. And KP, for all his bravado, confidence and self-belief, is not in the same category as the afore-mentioned champions.

I am a huge KP fan, but for me, his downturn came with his loss of captaincy. Captaincy requires not only confidence, but the confidence of your team... And he lost that, the minute his ego became bigger than his potential.

It's a shame. A little more humility could have taken him a long way.

drinks.break
on April 19, 2014, 14:07 GMT

Pietersen will always win the PR battle on this one, because fans just want to see the best players playing, and not to watch the invisible hand of the back-room staff as they manipulate the pawns on the paddock.

As long as lack of talent or loss of form are not the reasons for his exclusion, the fans will always want to see Pietersen back.

jmcilhinney
on April 19, 2014, 14:08 GMT

There will still be those who claim that they are owed an explanation, even though it's been stated several times that both parties cannot discuss the matter until October and KP would have been party to implementing that restriction. No matter what anyone says, there's no way that we fans are ever going to know what was really going on in the dressing room. Noone can deny that controversy was never far away when KP was involved, whether or not it was always his fault. The fact is that he's gone and the appointment of Moores should put to rest speculation of his returning.