Favre's status

if #4 were throwing to DD, J-Walk, D. Jarrett I wonder what people would be writting

b/c I don't feel managment has give brett anybody to throw the ball to, especially in the last 4 games of the season over the last three years

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Dude, I think we all get it. Even though Brett threw 18 picks, which ties him for 4th worst in the NFL, that wasn't his fault. Throwing late down the middle of the field is always management's fault, even though 25+ other QB's figured out how to tuck the ball away or throw it away. Maybe their management brought in better receivers to show their QB's how to do that. :roll:

I think it's awesome how you repeatedly blame "management" for J-Walk leaving. They are no doubt partially to blame. But they share that blame with the ultimate team leader Brett Favre.

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to me.... most of the 18 INT's were thrown when the Packers were behind and Brett was just trying to win games with fifth and sixth string players.

and like I said, If TT goes to J-Walk right away, and offers him 10 million garunteed, no way javon leaves GB, regardless of what #4 said.

Javon did not leave the Packers because of Brett. Javon was pissed off because management did not take care of him, so he moved on.

like I said we sign J-Walk, DD, Green , and draft TE Olsen, we aint having this discussion.

I see your point and I agree with it for the most part. But it did work out pretty well for Charles Woodson. He rarely practice and showed up big in games.

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I understand what you're saying, but the 2 really aren't at all the same. CB's don't rely on timing with other teammates anywhere near what QB have to. Sure CB have read routes and know when to check off, but nothing like what a QB's should be practicing.

And don't get me wrong, Woodson was hurt by missing camp, his timing and play stunk at the beginning of the year. The secondary's communication was a large part of the defensive problems last year.

Let's not forget Walker himself for his part which is where the most blame should go in the first place. It takes a lot of guts to start making demands two years out when you have had one good season. He wanted a deal that was one sided. Good for him. Not the Packers.

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:rotflmao: :twocents: Say we sign Walker, and he has the year he had last year, and DD has the same year he had in 2006. The Packers make the playoffs, how exactly is this bad for the packers?
Please explain this nonsence

Those kind of deals don't fly often. It would be one thing if he outperformed his contract over the first three years. He did not. He was actually overpaid for his production overall.

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WRONG, actually rookie deals are re-worked all the time

We had DD who made the Pro-Bowl and JJ who made the All-Rookie team and KRob and others at the #3 which normally catches what? Thirty catches a year or so? Brett's got guys to throw it to.

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WTF JJ? :rotflmao: 30 catches a year, whats that? are you kidding or just drunk? how about two WR with 1000 yards each and a 1000 yard back. say like .....DD, J-Walk, Green

don't want to dog him because I love the guy but he's got his own plate to clean up before "extra helpings" will have any real impact. He will find guys open if he just makes the progressions and looks for them.

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WTF does extra helpings mean, man sober up before you write these crappy rambling posts.
Like I said ....the last couple seasons, Brett has been throwing to reserves in the month of December, If we had some real talent on offence, people wouldn't be posting such crap about the best player on the Packers

I see your point and I agree with it for the most part. But it did work out pretty well for Charles Woodson. He rarely practice and showed up big in games.

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I understand what you're saying, but the 2 really aren't at all the same. CB's don't rely on timing with other teammates anywhere near what QB have to. Sure CB have read routes and know when to check off, but nothing like what a QB's should be practicing.

And don't get me wrong, Woodson was hurt by missing camp, his timing and play stunk at the beginning of the year. The secondary's communication was a large part of the defensive problems last year.

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But you just said he doesn't have to worry about timing and then said he ... oh nm.

Never ceases to amaze me on how Favre is totally given a pass for his sub-standard play, and the blame is cast onto his teammates. His passer rating stinks along with his completion %, and his red zone performance. He continually misses open receivers and throws into triple coverage.

I just don't understand what some think a 37/38 yr old QB is going to do for this team. Especially a QB that doesn't want to come to mandatory mini-camp, and when he does he says he doesn't want to be there and he's bored. Doesn't work out in the off season like Manning, Palmer, just to name a couple. Basically has no interest in building team chemistry.

He only wants to be around for Sundays, and in todays game, that's not nearly good enough.

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How do you know Favre doesn't work out in the off season? Are you there with him?
Have you seen someone so great that you think they could lead the Packers better this coming season?
I just don't understand what some think an unproven QB is going to do for this team. If I thought Rodgers was so great that we should sit Favre, I'd say so. But i don't believe that for a second.
And I don't give a pass for Favre's bad plays. I just honestly look at WHY certain things happened, and place the blame where it belongs, whether it was Favre, the O line, WR's, TE's or whoever.
Does he do some bonehead plays? Yes. But NO person/player is perfect. Even Peyton Manning messes up sometime.
Be patient........this will probably be the last season you will have to suffer watching Favre play.

Now, as a fan of football, I know full well it's a team sport. With no team, no matter how good of a football player you are, you won't get the results you need.

Favre is obviously not the same QB he was in the mid-90s. He's not as fast, he's a lot more injured, and the gambles he takes are less successful than they were before because his skills have declined.

However, he still moves the chains. 2005 started off with an injury to Javon Walker, who at the time was the Packer's best WR. Then it all went downhill. By the end of the season, Green and Davenport, our #1 and #2 RBs were out. Walker and Ferguson were out and we were left with Driver and Chatman as our WRs. Franks and David Martin at TE both were injured and we were left with Donald Lee and Ben Steele.

So to make matters worse, Favre got desperate and tried to make plays that weren't there. Sometimes he pulled it off. More often than not, it exploded in our faces. He had a forgettable year and it was a bad year to be a Packers fan.

2006 looked better, but we had 3 starters on the OL, and had to keep a TE and a RB back almost at all times or else we probably would have led the league in most sacks allowed. Opposing defenses had no problem rushing only four men, and keeping seven back to cover three receivers. Do the math. It is absolutely amazing Driver had a year like he did, proving he's one of the better WRs in the NFL. Unfortunately, Jennings got injured in week 6 and never fully recovered. He looked spectacular in his first five games.

2007 will prove if Favre is washed up or still has it.

I consider myself pretty fair when it comes to assessments. I can see the whole picture, and as I said several times, a lot of the blame does go on Favre. But, I think it's more you who's anti-Favre than us who are overly forgiving.

How do you know Favre doesn't work out in the off season? Are you there with him?

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Oh, I don't know, how about the fact that he said on camera in an interview that he hasn't touched a football since the Bear game. But you're right, in light of recent events, I really shouldn't take him at his word, because I don't think that's worth all that much anymore.

I consider myself pretty fair when it comes to assessments. I can see the whole picture, and as I said several times, a lot of the blame does go on Favre. But, I think it's more you who's anti-Favre than us who are overly forgiving.

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Well I guess you look at it as me being anti-Favre which is fine. I look at it as pro-Packers. I want this young team to move on with a QB that can grow with the team, instead of going through the annual Favre retirement dance, and then the "TT didn't get weapons for me pout".

I'm not going to go to the effort in posting Favre's 4th Qtr. #'s or his #'s in close games, but they're close to the worst in the league. He's no where near a top 10 QB as many here have stated.

Let's not forget Walker himself for his part which is where the most blame should go in the first place. It takes a lot of guts to start making demands two years out when you have had one good season. He wanted a deal that was one sided. Good for him. Not the Packers.

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:rotflmao: :twocents: Say we sign Walker, and he has the year he had last year, and DD has the same year he had in 2006. The Packers make the playoffs, how exactly is this bad for the packers?
Please explain this nonsence

Those kind of deals don't fly often. It would be one thing if he outperformed his contract over the first three years. He did not. He was actually overpaid for his production overall.

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WRONG, actually rookie deals are re-worked all the time

We had DD who made the Pro-Bowl and JJ who made the All-Rookie team and KRob and others at the #3 which normally catches what? Thirty catches a year or so? Brett's got guys to throw it to.

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WTF JJ? :rotflmao: 30 catches a year, whats that? are you kidding or just drunk? how about two WR with 1000 yards each and a 1000 yard back. say like .....DD, J-Walk, Green

don't want to dog him because I love the guy but he's got his own plate to clean up before "extra helpings" will have any real impact. He will find guys open if he just makes the progressions and looks for them.

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WTF does extra helpings mean, man sober up before you write these crappy rambling posts.
Like I said ....the last couple seasons, Brett has been throwing to reserves in the month of December, If we had some real talent on offence, people wouldn't be posting such crap about the best player on the Packers

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Look ********, if you would actually read the post you might hear what I am talking about.

I was referencing the thirty catches to the #3 WR which is about what they usually contribute at that position. I know exactly how many catches DD and Walker make.

You keep crying about who Favre has to throw to all the time which is for the most part bull. No we don't have an all pro #3 receiver. Who does?

As far as December goes MANY TEAMS are depleted by then at MANY positions. Murphy was unfortunate, Gardner never panned, Fergy was hurt as usual, KRob got ripped early by the new Commish, etc,.

It's not like Management hasn't addressed WR. It's a position that has taken a hit more than others. You can't keep ten of them on the roster.

As far as Walker goes it is NOT the norm to re-do contracts two years out. Players that DO get their deals re-done early have been over producers for a number of years. Not just one.

Walker got paid very well his first two years on a front end loaded contract and didn't do squat. He didn't deserve it. Get over it.

You always want to play the IF game and isolate certain players we should have kept and talk about how much better life would be with names like Walker and Jarrett (which is joke) who hasn't even caught a pass yet and even Wahle for crying out loud.

Most of the time your a whiney prick with nothing positive to say who contributes nothing more than how grand life would be with players no longer here or who have never been a Packer.

I live in SEC country in Alabama. Russell is good but don't put him in the HOF just yet. He almost lost his starting job his junior year and was inconsistant in many games there.

He can throw it forever but he's not that great on the mid range passes and it will be interesting to see how he plays on a bad team. LSU was a very talented team while he was there. I saw them win games DISPITE Russell playing lousy.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts to the speed and all that goes on after the snap in the NFL. He experienced nothing like what he is about to see. Like I say don't put him up there just yet.

The point is if the "0" line can't hold up ( and they are lousy) he will look like much less than a number one pick.

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The big body and mobility will help him avoid sacks to get it downfeild.
I think Russel will be amazing. and Quinn will suck!

Let's not forget Walker himself for his part which is where the most blame should go in the first place. It takes a lot of guts to start making demands two years out when you have had one good season. He wanted a deal that was one sided. Good for him. Not the Packers.

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:rotflmao: :twocents: Say we sign Walker, and he has the year he had last year, and DD has the same year he had in 2006. The Packers make the playoffs, how exactly is this bad for the packers?
Please explain this nonsence

Those kind of deals don't fly often. It would be one thing if he outperformed his contract over the first three years. He did not. He was actually overpaid for his production overall.

Click to expand...

WRONG, actually rookie deals are re-worked all the time

We had DD who made the Pro-Bowl and JJ who made the All-Rookie team and KRob and others at the #3 which normally catches what? Thirty catches a year or so? Brett's got guys to throw it to.

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WTF JJ? :rotflmao: 30 catches a year, whats that? are you kidding or just drunk? how about two WR with 1000 yards each and a 1000 yard back. say like .....DD, J-Walk, Green

don't want to dog him because I love the guy but he's got his own plate to clean up before "extra helpings" will have any real impact. He will find guys open if he just makes the progressions and looks for them.

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WTF does extra helpings mean, man sober up before you write these crappy rambling posts.
Like I said ....the last couple seasons, Brett has been throwing to reserves in the month of December, If we had some real talent on offence, people wouldn't be posting such crap about the best player on the Packers

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Look ********, if you would actually read the post you might hear what I am talking about.

I was referencing the thirty catches to the #3 WR which is about what they usually contribute at that position. I know exactly how many catches DD and Walker make.

You keep crying about who Favre has to throw to all the time which is for the most part bull. No we don't have an all pro #3 receiver. Who does?

As far as December goes MANY TEAMS are depleted by then at MANY positions. Murphy was unfortunate, Gardner never panned, Fergy was hurt as usual, KRob got ripped early by the new Commish, etc,.

It's not like Management hasn't addressed WR. It's a position that has taken a hit more than others. You can't keep ten of them on the roster.

As far as Walker goes it is NOT the norm to re-do contracts two years out. Players that DO get their deals re-done early have been over producers for a number of years. Not just one.

Walker got paid very well his first two years on a front end loaded contract and didn't do squat. He didn't deserve it. Get over it.

You always want to play the IF game and isolate certain players we should have kept and talk about how much better life would be with names like Walker and Jarrett (which is joke) who hasn't even caught a pass yet and even Wahle for crying out loud.

Most of the time your a whiney prick with nothing positive to say who contributes nothing more than how grand life would be with players no longer here or who have never been a Packer.

Let's not forget Walker himself for his part which is where the most blame should go in the first place. It takes a lot of guts to start making demands two years out when you have had one good season. He wanted a deal that was one sided. Good for him. Not the Packers.

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:rotflmao: :twocents: Say we sign Walker, and he has the year he had last year, and DD has the same year he had in 2006. The Packers make the playoffs, how exactly is this bad for the packers?
Please explain this nonsence

Those kind of deals don't fly often. It would be one thing if he outperformed his contract over the first three years. He did not. He was actually overpaid for his production overall.

Click to expand...

WRONG, actually rookie deals are re-worked all the time

We had DD who made the Pro-Bowl and JJ who made the All-Rookie team and KRob and others at the #3 which normally catches what? Thirty catches a year or so? Brett's got guys to throw it to.

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WTF JJ? :rotflmao: 30 catches a year, whats that? are you kidding or just drunk? how about two WR with 1000 yards each and a 1000 yard back. say like .....DD, J-Walk, Green

don't want to dog him because I love the guy but he's got his own plate to clean up before "extra helpings" will have any real impact. He will find guys open if he just makes the progressions and looks for them.

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WTF does extra helpings mean, man sober up before you write these crappy rambling posts.
Like I said ....the last couple seasons, Brett has been throwing to reserves in the month of December, If we had some real talent on offence, people wouldn't be posting such crap about the best player on the Packers

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Look ********, if you would actually read the post you might hear what I am talking about.

I was referencing the thirty catches to the #3 WR which is about what they usually contribute at that position. I know exactly how many catches DD and Walker make.

You keep crying about who Favre has to throw to all the time which is for the most part bull. No we don't have an all pro #3 receiver. Who does?

As far as December goes MANY TEAMS are depleted by then at MANY positions. Murphy was unfortunate, Gardner never panned, Fergy was hurt as usual, KRob got ripped early by the new Commish, etc,.

It's not like Management hasn't addressed WR. It's a position that has taken a hit more than others. You can't keep ten of them on the roster.

As far as Walker goes it is NOT the norm to re-do contracts two years out. Players that DO get their deals re-done early have been over producers for a number of years. Not just one.

Walker got paid very well his first two years on a front end loaded contract and didn't do squat. He didn't deserve it. Get over it.

You always want to play the IF game and isolate certain players we should have kept and talk about how much better life would be with names like Walker and Jarrett (which is joke) who hasn't even caught a pass yet and even Wahle for crying out loud.

Most of the time your a whiney prick with nothing positive to say who contributes nothing more than how grand life would be with players no longer here or who have never been a Packer.

But I'm the one who rambles on with worthless posts.

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**** you prick, see this is supposed to be a forum where i can post without being attacked. you're at least the third person who has called me names, and when i respond to your pathetic ramblings about how a third string WR will turn the team around. like always , your post calling me names will stand, and my responce will be deleted. Some ******* puke hick from alabama is going to tell me what is best for a team I've watched my entire life. i sat threw games in the 70's out at County Stadium, and been to lambeau tons of times. after brett retires and TT is canned, the packers start to lose , I'll still be wearing packer gear and going to games. you'll move on to the next team forum featuring whatever player the NFL promotes.

If I feel the Packers would have been better with Walker , DD, and Green than Jackson, Jones, Jennings, then that's my business you ******* puke, you don't like it then move on and read something else and don't respond to my post.

and like i wrote, list the starting WR for the Packers in December of 2004, 2005, 2006 and tell me how we were supposed to win w/those players.

I'm not the one that started this crap. Go back to the post where you were the one doing the initial insulting. If your going to give it than be prepared although I didn't expect much less than the whiney *** attitude.

Yes you can post the same crap about Walker and Wahle and Brett's lack of help.....over and over and over, every chance you get. You call yourself a fan when all you do is bitch about what the team hasn't done, what they should have done and how much better the team could have been.

I prefer to nix the "woulda, coulda, shoulda," crap and look at the positive side things and get behind the team as a fan instead of focusing on topics about issues that are irrelevant.

My uncle played for the Packers and my father, who coached college football for MANY years, was called by Mr. Vince Lombardi to interview for an assistants job in '66. I have been to several National Coaches Conventions, met most anybody you can name, and have sat in on more game film then you have been to the movies.

I'm not the one that started this crap. Go back to the post where you were the one doing the initial insulting. If your going to give it than be prepared although I didn't expect much less than the whiney *** attitude.

Yes you can post the same crap about Walker and Wahle and Brett's lack of help.....over and over and over, every chance you get. You call yourself a fan when all you do is bitch about what the team hasn't done, what they should have done and how much better the team could have been.

I prefer to nix the "woulda, coulda, shoulda," crap and look at the positive side things and get behind the team as a fan instead of focusing on topics about issues that are irrelevant.

My uncle played for the Packers and my father, who coached college football for MANY years, was called by Mr. Vince Lombardi to interview for an assistants job in '66. I have been to several National Coaches Conventions, met most anybody you can name, and have sat in on more game film then you have been to the movies.

But your the expert and I'm just a ******* puke from Alabama.

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Great resume, all I am is a football fan from Wisconsin. Who is posting his view points. if you feel because your daddy was a coach, and your uncle played for even say Bart Starr, Your veiw points are more valid than mine then more power to you.

Do you think I want the Packers to fail? if your family played football in wisconsin, and I'm telling you I'm born and raised here, do you really have to question "IF I am a fan". Hopefully I am wrong. Brandon Jackson runs for a 1000 yards, GJ has a breakout year and has 1000 yards, DD puts up another 1200 season and packers win 10 games and make the playoffs. Great, awesome. I am as excited as anyone.

I just don't think, in my opinion it will happen. I am sorry, but i feel TT made a huge mistake letting Walker out of GB. Especially when you have #4 and DD.

and I could careless about your hours of watching film, its not hard to tape A game and re-watch film.

IMHO, Brett hasn't had anybody to throw to in the second half of the season for the last couple years and it has affected his numbers. you feel differently, and your point is more valid than mine b/c your uncle played in GB........whatever

sorry I got so vicious, the hood rat came out. you are from the south and you don't do that, and i should have just ignored your post

go cheer for javon walker... he whined his way out of green bay and brett favre helped give him the push out the door.

you are obviously big fans of both javon and brett, and yet you ignore the FACT that they were the 2 biggest reasons Javon Walker doesnt play in green bay anymore.
blame it on TT if you want, but its more their fault than anyones. i realise it makes life easier to blame the first guy with a general manager tag you see, but that doesnt make it right.

by my calculations your at least 40 something, and i think thats a little old to still show your hood rat side. but what do i know.

warhawk:

Most of the time your a whiney prick with nothing positive to say who contributes nothing more than how grand life would be with players no longer here or who have never been a Packer.

I was born and raised there. My roots are there. Where I live has nothing to do with it.

For the record I understand that the Packers have had problems at WR at the end of recent seasons. As I have said all teams are dealing with injuries as the season goes on. We have had more than our share at that position recently.

Most teams will struggle with injuries and have to find a way to work thru them. The Bears last year were not the same at the end of the year without their two stud "D"lineman and Brown out.

The opposition isn't always able to put their best defensive guys out there at the end of the year either.

You are talking about a depth problem on a team that had to build depth at virtually every position and there are still positions we cannot afford to take on many injuries.

It would have been nice to have more depth at WR the last few years considering the number of guys that have gone down. Team depth is coming around and we have like ten WR's in camp this year.

I was one of the biggest advocates for Moss. It didn't happen so let's move on. I would rather cheer for who's here than jeer who's not.

That's where the difference is between you and I. Not the miles between Wisconsin and Alabama.

The only point of my resume (your words) is to establish the fact that my background includes more than seeing if I can hit the cow in the back yard between the eyes with chew.

Us Alabamians have more pride than that. We leave nonsense such as that for the wife.

go cheer for javon walker... he whined his way out of green bay and brett favre helped give him the push out the door.

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I do, and will continue

you are obviously big fans of both javon and brett, and yet you ignore the FACT that they were the 2 biggest reasons Javon Walker doesnt play in green bay anymore.
blame it on TT if you want, but its more their fault than anyones. i realise it makes life easier to blame the first guy with a general manager tag you see, but that doesnt make it right.

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again , here we go. you feel Javon left the packers b/c of Brett Favre, I feel Javon left b/c TT didn't re-work his rookie contract. See, it is a discussion forum, nobody is right or wrong.

by my calculations your at least 40 something, and i think thats a little old to still show your hood rat side. but what do i know.

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i know you can take the man out of the city, but you'll never take the city from the man.
peace out
GO Packers

That's where the difference is between you and I. Not the miles between Wisconsin and Alabama.

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:thumbsup: like i said, even though Brandon Jackson is our RB, and I am not happy about some of TT decisions, I'm still buying packer gear, going to games, watching games.

The thread was about #4's status...not the upcoming season. people were writting about Brett's decline, and I'm saying there is a reason for this decline in stats over the last couple years, and it revolves aroud player personell, not Brett's lacking skills.

go GJ, go Brandon Jackson go Jones
GO 2007 PACKERS is that better or could I express my opinion, in a forum, w/o being attacked, how none of these guys except GJ were full time starters in college. and if they couldn't start in college, why does everyone expect them to suddenly "SHINE" in the NFL and advance us to the playoffs?

and is it really whining, if I feel the packers would have been beter off getting a guy like Jarrett in the second round. If Jarrett teaming with Steve Smith is a key factor to the Carolina Panthers returning to the Playoffs, is it wrong to think of a scenerio where Jarrett could have been teamed w/DD