For example - I think Big Leg Emma, most Freak Out! songs like Love of My Life, Trouble Every Day, I Ain't Got No Heart, etc... Dupree's Paradise (88 versus 73/74), Pound for A Brown, and Dog Meat are better on most later albums than their original versions from the albums or tours they first appeared.

You can all crucify me now... but Andy, Florentine, Inca, Rollo, Yellow Snow Suite, and Village of the Son from 78-80 with the Vinnie/Arthur rhythm section and Ike handling the vocals are my favorites versions. George Duke is a monster player but Vinnie/Arthur/Mars are the "band", if these three were in a lineup Frank was right at home. (All of this is opinion of course)

That said (and slightly off-topic) I generally dislike Andy as a solo vehicle, the vamp is waaay to distracting, I have similar qualms with some tours versions of Easy Meat.

That said (and slightly off-topic) I generally dislike Andy as a solo vehicle, the vamp is waaay to distracting

One bit some listeners miss is that FZ didn't solo on "Andy" in 1979. It was Warren playing the same solo FZ played in the studio version.

However, he did play great solos on both the Buffalo and Best Band versions.

My drum teacher and I used to discuss Zappa music and although he hadn't been a fan of the Chad Wackerman era bands (he said Chad sounded better with Allan Holdsworth), he bought Best Band and told me he thought the OSFA songs there were better than the originals.

My drum teacher and I used to discuss Zappa music and although he hadn't been a fan of the Chad Wackerman era bands (he said Chad sounded better with Allan Holdsworth), he bought Best Band and told me he thought the OSFA songs there were better than the originals.

I know what your teacher meant because that segue of Mr. GG, Pogen, Andy and Inca is EPIC!!

Honorable mention:Zomby Woof - YCDTOSA 1 (the solo section is so goddam funky)Honey, Don't You Want A Man Like Me? - YCDTOSA 6 (the Sam Kinison screams are hilarious)Little House I Used To Live In - FE (Flo & Eddie's melodies are killer)

That said (and slightly off-topic) I generally dislike Andy as a solo vehicle, the vamp is waaay to distracting

One bit some listeners miss is that FZ didn't solo on "Andy" in 1979. It was Warren playing the same solo FZ played in the studio version.

I had missed this indeed. Cool to know. This is why I wished more video existed of each tour. The number of times I thought it was Tommy when it was Peter while watching the new Passaic videos was a bit embarrassing. Would love to see the 79 band and the Vinnie 80 band in proshot form. (Favorite tours)

I agree Andy can have cool solos but those synth/bass/drum stabs during the solo sound like they are falling apart like 90% of the time.

Also loving (and agreeing) with the contributions on this list particularly the BBYNHIYL ones.

Wow, I have to admit that I'm normally fine with most of the original versions of tunes named here. It should be noted that the versions weren't so much "updated", but simply live recordings. I know Zappa is one of these artists where technical skill is more important than other factors, but dammit, I like these other factors too much!

I think my favourite version of "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" is on Road Tapes 2, hands down.

Most disappointing "update"? "More Trouble Every Day".

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Honey, Dont You Want a Man Like Me? never sounded as good as the live rendition the late '75 band did... the more funky slow backbeat Bozzio one. Joe's Manage has it. Even the version Frank changed the tempo on right after the first one was cool... he sped it up a lot - but I LOVE the first rendition.

Wow, I have to admit that I'm normally fine with most of the original versions of tunes named here. It should be noted that the versions weren't so much "updated", but simply live recordings. I know Zappa is one of these artists where technical skill is more important than other factors, but dammit, I like these other factors too much!

I think my favourite version of "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" is on Road Tapes 2, hands down.

One side-note: within FZ's works I would avoid the phrase "original version": it suggest there there are "originals" of which there are some 'versions' later, but as time shows us it rarely is the case - FZ always changed and re-orchestrated the tunes, and the first one is not nesseceraly the "original" one, but also "one version among the others". (Just an example: which one is the "original" Inca Roads? The first release as we now it from One Size Fits All, OR the '72 (instrumental) version that was released years later on Lost Episodes? I think: both.)That's the point where Dweezil makes a mistake when he tries to copy some "original versions" on stage: something FZ never (never, never, never) did. To him it was an opportunity to re-think a tune and bring it to life, to the present - the most funny (ridiculous) parts are where Dweezil and the band makes a word-by-word reproduction of a one-time-only impovised event that was released one time on a live album).

This way some of his later versions became better or more rich, some became more funny - or more weak. The thing I enjoy most is the richness (and the existence) of the variations - the cases where the later versions are better to me:

- King Kong '88: no, not nessecarily "better", but so refreshing.- Bamboozled by Love '88: not nessecarily "better" again, but sooooo refreshing: the horns!.- The Black Page '88 (New Age): perfectionment of something that was already perfect earlier- City of Tiny lites '82: I love the way it breaks into parts, great solo (as always)- Big Swifty '73, Roxy - the best version: with the changes of tempos, the solos, the changes behind the solos, the returning of the main theme in slow motion at the end: just perfect.- ?....

^ I meant "original version" as in, the first version that appeared on a Zappa album. So while Inca Roads, or RDNZL for another example, goes back to '72-'73, I'm talking about the OSFA version compared to later versions, as the earlier version wasn't the "completed" work.

For "Bamboozled" I like the 84 version with the faster tempo and synth hook, plus the vocal harmonies make the song seem a sillier (not a bad thing when you combine it with the murder threats of the lyrics).

My drum teacher and I used to discuss Zappa music and although he hadn't been a fan of the Chad Wackerman era bands (he said Chad sounded better with Allan Holdsworth)

I've yet to hear Holdsworth do anything other than ruin whatever band he happens to be blowing his premature load over the top of.

I can't think of any Zappa songs that I prefer over the originals. I'm sure there's a couple. Which RDNZL is the original? Lather or Studio Tan or? I like Helsinki 1974 the best.

There's some great solos from live versions of Torture but it's impossible to recapture the atmosphere of the original. With or without Gail's contribution. If I remember correctly Zappa plays bass on it, too. There's an incredible vibe on that studio version. But it's not necessarily preferable in terms of the guitar solo.

^ I meant "original version" as in, the first version that appeared on a Zappa album.

I see, but even FZ goes against this when he calls the Torture Never Stops from '75 (YCDTOSA vol 4) the "original version". Of course I understand what is the thing we are talking about, I just suggest to change the word "original" to something else. The main thin in Zappa's music is the change itself, not having something "original" to wich someone has to go back.

By the way: I really LOVE Black Napkins, I keep on listenning the different versions and orchestrations, and as time goes by I tend to like less the "original" (heh: the first released) version on Zoot Allures, because it is shortened, it is not building up the way it used to (two repetitions, the second one with humming vocals, etc.), so to me the first released version is NOT the original one at all. (Nowadays I prefer the Ljubljana version (FZ plays the music of FZ - I extended it with the eding from a bootleg), and the '88 version is just beautiful and beautiful and beautiful).

I like Holdsworth the most with his own groups (try IOU) but the way he sounded with Tony Williams and Soft Machine is basically the way he always sounds, although he tends to solo on more complicated chord sequences in his own stuff rather than their simple fusion vamps.

Re "RDNZL," technically the first was Lost Episodes, then Helsinki 1974, then the Lather/Studio Tan version was a few months after that.

I like Holdsworth the most with his own groups (try IOU) but the way he sounded with Tony Williams and Soft Machine is basically the way he always sounds, although he tends to solo on more complicated chord sequences in his own stuff rather than their simple fusion vamps.

Re "RDNZL," technically the first was Lost Episodes, then Helsinki 1974, then the Lather/Studio Tan version was a few months after that.

I'll go ahead and disagree with him messing up Tony Williams Lifetime. I fuckin love his playing on it.

Re "RDNZL," technically the first was Lost Episodes, then Helsinki 1974, then the Lather/Studio Tan version was a few months after that.

Oh yes - how interesting: almost all the later released versions are older then the first released one (even Road Tapes #2), the only newer version is from '82 (a loveable one, one of my favorites, by the way).

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