Monday, January 2, 2012

Bonnie & Clyde's Death Car-- Still As Poignant As Ever

With "thanks" to good friend of the blog Joseph Rumeo, who hails from the great Canadian north-- recent Bonnie & Clyde Death Car pics, taken by him at Primm, Nevada.

Note the shots from Clyde's side, which after passing through both Bonnie and Clyde-- could only dent the strong steel of the car's exterior on Bonnie's side.

Also note a good close-up of the few shots fired by Dallas Deputy Bob Alcorn, which hit Bonnie's passenger side above the door. So too, of shots fired from the rear by Deputy Hinton-- which entered through the rear window and could have been responsible for severing Bonnie's spine.

Of additional interest, is a fresh photo of Clyde's blue Western style shirt-- as worn the day of the ambush. Black and white images tend to mute the realism and human dynamic associated with Bonnie & Clyde.

But just as color photos of Depression Age America so fortunately exist-- this color image reminds us, that Bonnie and Clyde as well as their victims-- did perish in living color.

The magnitude of carnage levied upon Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow that fateful day in May of '34 is always evident-- when viewing the bullet riddled death car. Movies are one thing-- but reality is quite another.

11 comments:

It's a shame the good Louisiana folks can't find a way to purchase this signifigant treasure from that state's history and bring the car "back home". I certainly would help get the money invested returned by heading to Gibsland or Arcadia (wherever the car would reside) and pay whatever was being asked to see it.I have managed to obtain 3 photos taken at the ambush site 23 May 1934 (one of them I remember from my History book my senior year in 1970, just before I graduated and was drafted into the Nam thing). In them the rifles used by the interstate execution posse are on top of the roof of the Warren car. Does anyone know who took those photos (and any others of the death car at the ambush site and in towage to Arcadia?)and can offer some info on how the photographers got out out to the ambush site and their recollections, etc?I'm also curious who the tow truck driver was and if he/she was ever interviewed?I've seen some discussions on the bullet damage to the Warren car that some feel are evidence Bonnie was a solo target from the front and Alcorn's bullet holes over Bonnie's door are evidence Bonnie was trying to exit the car. If you look at photos of the Warren car taken that day Bonnie's side of the front windshield was plastered while Clyde's was clean of bullet holes.All I can say for sure is both victims were DOA and those who participated in killing them have the highest power to answer to, which is why I usually avoid speculation.Thank you for posting these photos, I would love to see the Warren Car before my time is up on Earth and the closer it gets to where I reside the easier it will be for me to visit it.

Hello Brad-- Last I heard, the asking price for the Bonnie & Clyde Death Car was $5 Million. Also, I know who I can ask re: a number of your questions-- ie: photography and tow truck and get back to you. Concerning Bonnie trying to exit the car-- based on Bob Alcorn's account of the ambush, by the time he admits to flanking the death car and shooting at Bonnie's passenger side-- logic would dictate the likelihood that Bonnie was already dead. As she was hit a number of times in the head from her left side-- I feel this reality precluded any possibility of mobility on her part.

Also as I understand it, the peppering of Bonnie's side of the windshield, was done by Hamer and Gault. But as there's little evidence of frontal wounds in Bonnie-- it seems Bonnie was likely blown into the passenger door by the force of fire from her left, and thus below windshield height-- when that barrage of fire was directed at Bonnie's side of the windshield. As such, it appears those shots missed their mark.

Some of my friends have no Internet access so I showed them your blog entry and immediately got a barrage of questions.

For their benefit I'll post some of them and will show them your and your visitors' responses.

Again, speculating on if Bonnie was trying to surrender is something I try to stay out of. I can say for sure she was dead when the coronor arrived at the ambush site and that's as far as I go with speculation! Also, having served in the Army during a time of war I have seen the tremendous power & destructive force some weapons have when used against people and things. The fact that the Warren car survived at all is a testiment to how well Henry Ford had it built.

(1) If Bonnie was trying to exit the vehicle out her door her left facial profile would be to shooters from the front of the car firing into the windshield. Her face and head wounds could have happened in that manner. Also, her back would be exposed to shooters on Clyde's side of the car which would explain her back wounds. The bullet holes in the front windshield tell you a target was there when the shooter(s) fired. Clyde's windshield being clean tells you Clyde was not visible as a target and thus was not fired at. One felt Clyde may have been trying to exit as well as Bonnie.

(2) A person trapped in the front seat of an auto under fire from guns and not driving has 2 options: duck or exit the vehicle. Climbing into the back seat makes the situation worse as more body is exposed. Assuming Clyde knocked out of commission early in the attack and the target focus changing from him to Bonnie leaves Bonnie with those 2 options.

(3) If Clyde Barrow was killed by Prentiss Oakley with his 2 pre-mature, early shots (which he told people is what happened)why was the car sprayed with the firepower if Clyde was dead already? Doesn't this indicate the posse was in fear of B&C to use such an overkill with the primary threat (Clyde) out of the picture early in the attack? The multitude of bullet holes in the car begs for an explaination.

(4) It's been rreported that Sheriff Henderson Jordan spent much of Monday, 21 May 1934 trying to get Bureau of Investigation agents to the ambush site. Did they ever arrive and were the photos taken on Sailes road after the attack come from them?

(5) One of the photos on Sailes road shows a person that resembles Henery Methvin. Was he (or a relative younger than Ivy Methvin)present at the ambush site?

(6) What happened to Bonnie's panties? She was reported to be without them when she arrived at Arcadia and was displayed.

Hi Brad-- Based on Prentiss Oakley's account, a reference within a Henderson Jordan post ambush interview and the documented accounts of other independent witnesses, who either saw or heard the ambush-- one of those 1st 2 Oakley shots very likely killed Clyde instantly. You, I and others can surmise until the cows come home, why it was that such "carnage" was unleashed some brief moment later-- on the car and Bonnie Parker. However the evidence seems to suggest, a human reaction of lawmen who knew well of Clyde's abilities in the past to evade capture-- and to respond with remarkable firepower.

I think it's fair to say, the ambush posse members were taking no chances. I don't feel it can be confirmed whether anyone actually shouted any warning to Bonnie & Clyde-- as interestingly, the recollections of those present all seem to disagree, on who if anyone "spoke up"??

As told to me by "Boots" Hinton who knows well his father's account of the ambush, as well as the account of Bob Alcorn who was Ted Hinton's partner (and a man "Boots" knew personally)-- Hamer and Gault fired upon Bonnie from the front-- in thinking she might fire at them from her passenger window. However I think it would be hard to justify, the sheer firepower directed at the car from Clyde's side, in not taking out Bonnie very quickly.

BTW-- according to an article researched and published within an undertaker's publication, within the rush and pressure exhibited in Arcadia-- most of the bullets were left in the bodies. Thus it's forever unlikely, it will be known with any assurance which bullets were responsible for Bonnie's head wounds?? There have been varying reports of what weapon(s) Capt Hamer fired that day. However according to Sheriff Jordan, Hamer fired an automatic shotgun at the death car.

Please send me the photo you believe is Henry Methvin at the ambush site?? I am familiar with what Ivy Methvin looked like as well as some other Methvin relatives, who some believe "may" have played a larger roll than previously believed?? I've never heard of this contention concerning Henry, and would be interested in seeing this individual.

Also where was it reported-- that Jordan tried to involve the U.S. Bureau of Investigation in the ambush?? We know Bureau Special Agent Lester Kindell reported to the Bureau in New Orleans and Hamer reported to the Bureau in Dallas. Kindell was said to have been a good distance away, at the time of the ambush. An interesting report, should the Bureau have been "in the loop" for Bonnie & Clyde's final hours.

Many within this history are guilty of "over" speculating concerning this issue or that. There are so many details within the saga of B&C, which likely will never be known. A hard reality-- but a reality none the less.

Check your email tonight, Winston and it will have an attachment of the "Methvin clone" photo taken on Sailes road after the ambush.

I'll also go back through what I read over the holidays concerning Sheriff Jordan attempting to contact J. Edgar Hoover's agents on the 21st of May 1934. It probably came from a book review online (I read several). As you probably are aware, the books on the ambush can be extremely frustrating by not reporting the same history. This leaves a reader confused as to what is truth and what isn't. Just off the top of my head, qwhat I read was that Hamer was pressuring Jordan to spring the trap on Monday and Jordan was dragging his feet trying to get the B.I. agents at the ambush site 1st. Again, check your email and I'll fill you in there.

To me, murder is murder. If a killer kills a human instantly or waits a bit before doing the deed the end result is still murder. I agree, regardless if Bonnie had time to get out of the car or was trying to she still ended up dead. If she planned on ducking behind her part of the car or making a run to Methvin's truck we'll never know just like we'll never know if any of the posse were hiding in Ivy Methvin's truck and attacked from it. It's like arguing for or against a grassy knoll shooter, it's counter-productive IMO.

I figure our Creator knows the truth so speculating on my part is a huge waste dince I won't be the one doing the eternal judement on the matter. But to some, it matters. To my friends, it indicates many things, one of them being fear and another being hatred, particularly of women.

One of my favorite scenes in the movie 'JFK' came after Oswald was shot to death and one of Jim Garrison's investigators said, "Boy, someone just saved the Dallas D.A. a whole pile of work!".People often lose track of the huge mountain of legal issues and the costs involved to investigate, arrest and try individuals for alleged crimes. Some would say if the rap sheet is too long it's easier and more cost effective in the long run to kill them and close the books.

When one looks at the Warren car it almost begs for an explaination and seems to quietly ask, "was this the right way to handle B&C?"

I do hope someday the car is returned to where B&C's souls left it close to the ambush spot in Louisiana. I feel it belongs there and I bet others do too.

Hello Brad-- I must say in general, I've never felt it proper for anyone to speculate much within Bonnie & Clyde History-- and then hedge, by saying it "well could be true, since we'll never really know". There's no logic to me in that kind of thinking. If anything, that model of debate only helps facilitate sensationalist fluff-- by floating unsubstantiated or rumor laden print or banter, of which there have been umpteen examples over the decades.

Sometimes within this history, people hang onto ideas without historical backing-- and without a logical platform for debate. I find it hard to believe Bonnie attempted to make any move from the car, within what may have been just a moment or 3-- between the shots that killed Clyde and the shots that killed her. I'm not convinced there was a 7th man at the ambush, in that independent witnesses haven't allowed enough time between shots-- to allow for any prolonged pleas by Bonnie for her life or otherwise. This sort of "creative" thinking needs to have a sound foundation-- but I've yet to hear or see one concerning these ideas.

I've reviewed the photo you sent me Brad, which I've seen many times before. With all respect-- that's not Henry Methvin, nor any Methvin relative I'm aware of. I would respectfully suggest diligence for all, in learning all they can re: Bonnie & Clyde History from quality sources-- and without succumbing to the temptation of dubious claims.

I know I wouldn't want to eat a 1/2 baked pie-- so I'm usually surprised when 1/2 baked Bonnie & Clyde theories gain the support they do here and there. And the fact they can cloud well founded B&C research is troubling. But within this fast moving world of digital information-- it's not always easy to tell truth from fiction. As a relatively new fan of Bonnie & Clyde History, Brad you have a very inquisitive outlook. I'll do what I can, to answer your many good questions. Many thanks for your continued input.

I don't think that Bonnie had time to even think about what to do - I believe I've read that the whole thing, from first bullet to last bullet, lasted less than 20 seconds. If one of Oakley's first bullets killed Clyde, then the first inkling that Bonnie would have had that something was terribly wrong would have been a gunshot and then a spray of blood; I've heard that the first two gunshots were clearly heard separately, but then everyone started firing. Bonnie DID have time to scream - but I don't think she had time to do much else.

I'll compare this to the JFK assassination: JFK was shot once, and then before anyone could react, was shot again. Jackie had no time to react to the first shot; she reacted to the shot which killed Kennedy. Suppose there were 5 gunmen all firing at the same time into the auto - I don't think Jackie would have had the time to make her famous climb onto the back of the car before she herself was shot dead. Just as Jackie was unable to react to the very first shot (I believe she did begin to turn her head) I don't believe Bonnie had time to do more than begin screaming and perhaps turn to look at Clyde before the barrage of bullets found her, too.

Island - I'm not an expert on "going commando," by any means, but with regard to your question about what happened to Bonnie's panties, I'm going to hazard a guess and say that she wasn't wearing any to begin with. Without getting too graphic, I'll just state that when it's horribly hot and humid, gals don't really want to be wearing anything other than plain ol' cotton chones,; I'm not an expert on women's underwear of the 30's, but it's possible that at the time they didn't have the comfy little cotton things that make life a little easier in sweaty weather. Also, at the time, poorer Southerners did not always wear underwear; sometimes it came to a choice of what to wear up top or what to wear underneath. (I've heard that was one reason Elvis' dancing was so controversial; supposedly, he didn't always wear undies, either...)

@BarefootOkieGalNow I know why fellas from Oklahoma always seem to have smiles on their faces (lol). I learn something new about women each day.The insinuation my friends were making was that the posse or the spectators grabbed them as a keepsake. Living day to day, night to night in those clunky, rattlesome 1930's autos while hiding from the law and eye witnesses in fields & forrests had to have been a frightening, horrific experience for B&C and those who accompanied them. This, along with many other real details of B&C's short lives as fugitives were missed by the 1967 movie and some of the books, magazine & newspaper stories.

I posted earlier that I saw the death car in 1979--it was actually 1969 in front of Arlen's Grocery store on Memorial Drive in Dekalb County, Georgia. I assisted on Thursday afternoon with putting up a tent for the display for which I received a small cash reward as well as a personal tour of the auto.

The scene is almost indescribable--except the car appeared to have been used as target practice by a squad of soldiers. If you can imagine a large tin can after rifle practice--then imagine two humans were inside as the bullets passed through the outer doors and glass then through the bodies.

It is a grim and deadly sight. Even the steering wheel was damaged. There were rusty stains on the seats and headliner which I assumed was dried blood.

I remember too that the old man with the death car said that Clyde died immediately--WE know that Oakley shot him in the head with the first shot--Lucky Clyde. Probably never knew what hit him.

I doubt seriously that Clyde would have “given up” if given a chance to do so. He killed a lot of good people.

I posted earlier that I saw the death car in 1979--it was actually 1969 in front of Arlen's Grocery store on Memorial Drive in Dekalb County, Georgia. I assisted on Thursday afternoon with putting up a tent for the display for which I received a small cash reward as well as a personal tour of the auto.

The scene is almost indescribable--except the car appeared to have been used as target practice by a squad of soldiers. If you can imagine a large tin can after rifle practice--then imagine two humans were inside as the bullets passed through the outer doors and glass then through the bodies.

It is a grim and deadly sight. Even the steering wheel was damaged. There were rusty stains on the seats and headliner which I assumed was dried blood.

I remember too that the old man with the death car said that Clyde died immediately--WE know that Oakley shot him in the head with the first shot--Lucky Clyde. Probably never knew what hit him.

I doubt seriously that Clyde would have “given up” if given a chance to do so. He killed a lot of good people.

B&CHB Hot Spot-- Bonnie & Clyde on Broadway-- Performance Highlights

"The" Iconic Bonnie Parker Photo??

Perhaps-- however an image Bonnie would later regret-- not for the revolver, but for the stogie. Nice colorization here-- exept that Bonnie's famous sweater dress may have been a different color. The only account I know of re: this, is Ted Hinton's reported revelation-- with dress supposedly having been black, with red, yellow and light green stripes.

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"NEW"-- Link to Critical Past-- B&C Film Retribution ('34) Available to View in Segments

The 1st Sowers Clandestine Meeting

Photo from 1st of 2 meetings near Sowers. The Sowers Ambush attempt occured the next night. Billie Jean (leaning on Clyde)-- noted, the man who betrayed us was a friend who drove us that night. The other person seen in Sowers pics-- who likely took this image was Joe Bill Francis. Proof of his betrayal??-- almost.

Is This The Best of the Best??

With a real life background resembling a painting-- this fabulous photo seems to have fascinated more people concerning Bonnie & Clyde than any other. And as W. D. Jones was the only other individual visible in this photo series-- it's fair to believe he took this pic, as well as others in this batch. Good photographer W. D.

B&C Video-- Georgie Fame & The Blue Flames-- The Ballad of B&C

Morbid But Unique Non-Colorized Photo of Bonnie

Thanks to the persistence of B&C author E.R. Milner, this actual "color" photo of Bonnie Parker in death, was published in his book. My thanks to Frank Ballinger and the Hideout for this copy-- of a "remarkable" image.

A Pic Long-Studied For It's Details

Now why would someone at the ambush site, take the time to place Bonnie's Camel Cigarettes on her lap for the ride to Congers?? What a thing to do.

Bonnie's Bloodied Eyeglasses

Although seemingly with good provenance-- a vintage newspaper article has helped solidify their history.

Bonnie When Brought To Congers

True color or colorized?? Unknown-- and a judgement call on my part, to include such a revealing pic here. However, as this image is available to view via a healthy search-- I believe this graphic glass plate image representative of the stark reality of Bonnie in death, and of Dr. Wade's inquest at Congers.