Just an absolutely amazing testament to our intelligence officers and armed forces that there has not been another major attack since.

I know I thought that was just the beginning.

Was watching Dateline's thing they did on 9/11 last night ... was a reminder of how insane that day was, the American unity after it happened, and say what you want to politically about 'em ... the strong solid leadership from Guiliani and Bush through it all.

Also amazing how much the world has changed since then. Geopolitically, and things here at home like air travel and Americans putting policemen and fire fighters on the same lofty perception perch as our soldiers.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

When Bush stood on that rubble and said "those who knocked these building downs are going to hearing ALL of us", I was with him 1,000%. When Rudy told that Saudi scumbag to take his $10 million back and shove it up his ass, I said "FUCK YEAH!".

We're Americans, cowering in fear is just not in our national character. You raise a hand to us and we'll tear your whole fucking arm off.

It honestly doesn't seem like it has been 10 years. It was a surreal experience for all of us I'm sure, and of course it is one of those days where we all remember exactly where we were when we heard. Some lives have changed dramatically, some have changed slightly, but I think everyone can say that they've been touched by 9/11 in some way or another. For me, the 3 lasting images will be the plane hitting the 2nd tower, the hole in the Pentagon with the giant flag next to it, and the crater in Shanksville that was the first battlefield in the "global war on terror."

Sad that it took something like that to pull us together as a nation, and sad that we've grown so far apart since that day.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

gotribe31 wrote:It honestly doesn't seem like it has been 10 years. It was a surreal experience for all of us I'm sure, and of course it is one of those days where we all remember exactly where we were when we heard. Some lives have changed dramatically, some have changed slightly, but I think everyone can say that they've been touched by 9/11 in some way or another. For me, the 3 lasting images will be the plane hitting the 2nd tower, the hole in the Pentagon with the giant flag next to it, and the crater in Shanksville that was the first battlefield in the "global war on terror."

Sad that it took something like that to pull us together as a nation, and sad that we've grown so far apart since that day.

The solidarity and unselfishness that day was real.

The polarization every day since is a political power/money grab from both sides of the aisle. Also real.

My faith in the people of this country was briefly restored when, like many have said, the country came together in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.

I just can't help but wonder when that will happen in regard to the domestic issues the country faces. The people that scare me more than extremist muslims are the people running this country now. They're far more divisive and dangerous than anyone else.

I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to see anything about it. Nothing against those who lost their lives, but if I think about it in the slightest, I see the events of that day when I close my eyes. I remember everything about that day and I don't need it plastered on my TV to be reminded of it.

I certainly have no desire to watch it all again or ever live through another day like that.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to see anything about it. Nothing against those who lost their lives, but if I think about it in the slightest, I see the events of that day when I close my eyes. I remember everything about that day and I don't need it plastered on my TV to be reminded of it.

I certainly have no desire to watch it all again or ever live through another day like that.

This.

Why the fuck are all these networks replaying the attacks?

We should be talking about the incredible stories of survival and heroism. I get there are kids that weren't born when it happened, but it should be a day to remember those who lost their lives and in a way, celebrate out own resilience.

peeker643 wrote:The polarization every day since is a political power/money grab from both sides of the aisle. Also real.

The beauty of our country. In a crisis we can flex our muscle as a collective, then once time has passed we can return to normal.

CSPAN just had an event (Friday) hosted by George Washington University with former anchors Charlie Gibson, Brit Hume, Dan Rather, and some former CNN guy and a student asked something similar to your together/not together point. CNN guy had a great answer that I did my best to parrot above. Cannot find the video, but it was a fantastic answer to those who cry, "This is the worst/most divisive we have ever been; oh for the golden age..."

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

peeker643 wrote:The polarization every day since is a political power/money grab from both sides of the aisle. Also real.

The beauty of our country. In a crisis we can flex our muscle as a collective, then once time has passed we can return to normal.

CSPAN just had an event (Friday) hosted by George Washington University with former anchors Charlie Gibson, Brit Hume, Dan Rather, and some former CNN guy and a student asked something similar to your together/not together point. CNN guy had a great answer that I did my best to parrot above. Cannot find the video, but it was a fantastic answer to those who cry, "This is the worst/most divisive we have ever been; oh for the golden age..."

peeker643 wrote:The polarization every day since is a political power/money grab from both sides of the aisle. Also real.

The beauty of our country. In a crisis we can flex our muscle as a collective, then once time has passed we can return to normal.

CSPAN just had an event (Friday) hosted by George Washington University with former anchors Charlie Gibson, Brit Hume, Dan Rather, and some former CNN guy and a student asked something similar to your together/not together point. CNN guy had a great answer that I did my best to parrot above. Cannot find the video, but it was a fantastic answer to those who cry, "This is the worst/most divisive we have ever been; oh for the golden age..."

No doubt. Things are going swimmingly.

Your 'normal' is terrific.

He does have a point though. Not that this is a good way to do it, but that it's been this way for a while. Anyone who says "this is the most divisive this country has ever been!" is a terrible historian, an idiot, or both. I mean...there was a CIVIL WAR fought 150 years ago. Pretty sure that is the most divisive the country has ever been.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

peeker643 wrote:The polarization every day since is a political power/money grab from both sides of the aisle. Also real.

The beauty of our country. In a crisis we can flex our muscle as a collective, then once time has passed we can return to normal.

CSPAN just had an event (Friday) hosted by George Washington University with former anchors Charlie Gibson, Brit Hume, Dan Rather, and some former CNN guy and a student asked something similar to your together/not together point. CNN guy had a great answer that I did my best to parrot above. Cannot find the video, but it was a fantastic answer to those who cry, "This is the worst/most divisive we have ever been; oh for the golden age..."

No doubt. Things are going swimmingly.

Your 'normal' is terrific.

He does have a point though. Not that this is a good way to do it, but that it's been this way for a while. Anyone who says "this is the most divisive this country has ever been!" is a terrible historian, an idiot, or both. I mean...there was a CIVIL WAR fought 150 years ago. Pretty sure that is the most divisive the country has ever been.

Agreed. But I don't recall saying that this is the most divided this country has ever been. I said the coming together after 9/11 was quickly replaced by party politics and polarization.

peeker643 wrote:The polarization every day since is a political power/money grab from both sides of the aisle. Also real.

The beauty of our country. In a crisis we can flex our muscle as a collective, then once time has passed we can return to normal.

CSPAN just had an event (Friday) hosted by George Washington University with former anchors Charlie Gibson, Brit Hume, Dan Rather, and some former CNN guy and a student asked something similar to your together/not together point. CNN guy had a great answer that I did my best to parrot above. Cannot find the video, but it was a fantastic answer to those who cry, "This is the worst/most divisive we have ever been; oh for the golden age..."

No doubt. Things are going swimmingly.

Your 'normal' is terrific.

He does have a point though. Not that this is a good way to do it, but that it's been this way for a while. Anyone who says "this is the most divisive this country has ever been!" is a terrible historian, an idiot, or both. I mean...there was a CIVIL WAR fought 150 years ago. Pretty sure that is the most divisive the country has ever been.

Agreed. But I don't recall saying that this is the most divided this country has ever been. I said the coming together after 9/11 was quickly replaced by party politics and polarization.

I know, wasn't suggesting that you were saying that, just making a generalization.

I still maintain there has never and probably will never be a campaign as dirty as Andrew vs John Quincy Adams. Jackson accused Adams of providing a teenage virgin for the pleasure of the Russian Czar, Adams called Jackson's wife a whore.

skatingtripods wrote:I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to see anything about it. Nothing against those who lost their lives, but if I think about it in the slightest, I see the events of that day when I close my eyes. I remember everything about that day and I don't need it plastered on my TV to be reminded of it.

I certainly have no desire to watch it all again or ever live through another day like that.

This.

Why the fuck are all these networks replaying the attacks?

We should be talking about the incredible stories of survival and heroism. I get there are kids that weren't born when it happened, but it should be a day to remember those who lost their lives and in a way, celebrate out own resilience.

Not to mention, much of the shit they are playing is in poor taste ILO. No need to be showing close-ups of people jumping from buildings, for example.

peeker643 wrote:The people that scare me more than extremist muslims are the people running this country now. They're far more divisive and dangerous than anyone else.

Well, except for the thousands of dead innocents, that is. A little anniversary hyperbole, Peeks?

As is well documented, I have my apprehensions...even fears...about the "people running this country now", but they aren't flying airliners into skyscrapers, systematically oppressing the female half of their populations, hanging gays, executing apostates, building nukes to murder Jews, and shooting protesters in the streets.

I understand what you're saying...and "divisive" and "dangerous" are two different things...just a little perspective...

it only took 19 "extremist Muslims" to murder 3000 Americans....that's dangerous...to say nothing of the hundreds of others in the Cole, Khobar Towers, Beruit, African embassies, and first WTC attacks.

"convert...submit...or die"....is pretty divisive too.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

peeker643 wrote:The people that scare me more than extremist muslims are the people running this country now. They're far more divisive and dangerous than anyone else.

Well, except for the thousands of dead innocents, that is. A little anniversary hyperbole, Peeks?

As is well documented, I have my apprehensions...even fears...about the "people running this country now", but they aren't flying airliners into skyscrapers, systematically oppressing the female half of their populations, hanging gays, executing apostates, building nukes to murder Jews, and shooting protesters in the streets.

I understand what you're saying...and "divisive" and "dangerous" are two different things...just a little perspective...

it only took 19 "extremist Muslims" to murder 3000 Americans....that's dangerous...to say nothing of the hundreds of others in the Cole, Khobar Towers, Beruit, African embassies, and first WTC attacks.

"convert...submit...or die"....is pretty divisive too.

No, you're right. I wasn't attempting to minimize the event or the loss of life and if that's how it came off then I obviously didn't express myself very well. I'm also not minimizing the vengeful nature of extremists who would topple a skyscraper or two and kill thousands every day if they could.

Just extremely disappointing that the unity and bi-partisan cooperation felt in the aftermath gave way to same old, same old in a political sense. I shouldn't have expected more but it still saddens me. We shouldn't ever forget about that day. I just wish the politicians felt the same way between significant anniversaries of the event.

Rendition, black-ops, killing Bin Laden, keeping Gitmo open. There are plenty of things that Obama may have ran against, but then realized (I'm not advocating any of the above)that perhaps they are the best solutions given time and place.

Certain issues will always be divisive outside tiny moments in time. The intell and approach to these guys seems to have come a long way since 9/10/01 and much of it seems to still be in place and survived 2 presidents of opposing party and a change twice over in the House.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

peeker643 wrote:The people that scare me more than extremist muslims are the people running this country now. They're far more divisive and dangerous than anyone else.

Well, except for the thousands of dead innocents, that is. A little anniversary hyperbole, Peeks?

As is well documented, I have my apprehensions...even fears...about the "people running this country now", but they aren't flying airliners into skyscrapers, systematically oppressing the female half of their populations, hanging gays, executing apostates, building nukes to murder Jews, and shooting protesters in the streets.

I understand what you're saying...and "divisive" and "dangerous" are two different things...just a little perspective...

it only took 19 "extremist Muslims" to murder 3000 Americans....that's dangerous...to say nothing of the hundreds of others in the Cole, Khobar Towers, Beruit, African embassies, and first WTC attacks.

"convert...submit...or die"....is pretty divisive too.

No, you're right. I wasn't attempting to minimize the event or the loss of life and if that's how it came off then I obviously didn't express myself very well. I'm also not minimizing the vengeful nature of extremists who would topple a skyscraper or two and kill thousands every day if they could.

Just extremely disappointing that the unity and bi-partisan cooperation felt in the aftermath gave way to same old, same old in a political sense. I shouldn't have expected more but it still saddens me. We shouldn't ever forget about that day. I just wish the politicians felt the same way between significant anniversaries of the event.

No, you were absolutely right. The people running this country are 1,000,000 times more dangerous to our well being than the mysterious Muslims people seem to fear.

Divisive turns to dangerous really fucking quick....

I'll take my chances with the minimal risk of a handful of batshit crazy Islamatards, over the hundreds of batshit crazy American politicians who tear at America's flesh like mad dogs.

Dan tweeted this earlier and I've seen it elsewhere but it may be the most vivid memory/minute in time I have of 9/11, and the accompanying story is (long) and worth the read.

And I have to say, there are things that are so fresh in my mind (like 9/11) that I assume it's like that for everyone. Anyone who was around remembers the horror and the stunning events but I took for ganted that our kids (specifcally my 11 and 14 yr olds) would understand it too.

And they don't. They watch news footage or specials and can never begin to understand (and as a parent I'm okay with shielding them from a lot of it) the magnitude of the events and that day.

Why all the angst? It's not like he was the only one to jump. Put in that place, most people would've jumped. Better than burning to death.

A friend of mine that was right there said the sight of the bodies falling wasn't as bad as the sound they made when they hit. Still haunts him.

PS - I've talked about it many times with my 9 and 12 year olds, but I think until they can see it sort of as it happened, it'll just be a story with the occasional video clip. Anyone know where one can find extensive news footage from that day?

Hikohadon wrote:Why all the angst? It's not like he was the only one to jump. Put in that place, most people would've jumped. Better than burning to death.

A friend of mine that was right there said the sight of the bodies falling wasn't as bad as the sound they made when they hit. Still haunts him.

The article talks about that sound. I think the article also wonders why there's so much angst regarding the 'jumpers' for lack of a better term.

I guess I don't understand the need for that day to be sterilized in any way at all. It shouldn't be because time and the mind will naturally do that anyway.

Honestly, you can see the buldings fall a million times and you know what's lost inside them. But nothing puts the onus on the human suffering of that day (for me) like that picture and to know there were a couple hundred of those 'sounds' in a twenty minute period.

And one such sound was muted because the person who jumped landed on a firefighter and killed him.

Fuck the pretty beams of light spreading upward. That picture is the lasting tribute to what that day was all about.

Hikohadon wrote:Why all the angst? It's not like he was the only one to jump. Put in that place, most people would've jumped. Better than burning to death.

A friend of mine that was right there said the sight of the bodies falling wasn't as bad as the sound they made when they hit. Still haunts him.

The article talks about that sound. I think the article also wonders why there's so much angst regarding the 'jumpers' for lack of a better term.

I guess I don't understand the need for that day to be sterilized in any way at all. It shouldn't be because time and the mind will naturally do that anyway.

Honestly, you can see the buldings fall a million times and you know what's lost inside them. But nothing puts the onus on the human suffering of that day (for me) like that picture and to know there were a couple hundred of those 'sounds' in a twenty minute period.

And one such sound was muted because the person who jumped landed on a firefighter and killed him.

Fuck the pretty beams of light spreading upward. That picture is the lasting tribute to what that day was all about.

Agree completely. Sterilizing the jumping dishonors them and the situation they were in that made so many people make that choice.

And that photo still makes me so incredibly sad. Right in my stomach. That will never go away. It looks so lonely. Every time I see it I irrationally think to myself that if I was there I would have done the same thing, except I would have found someone to hold hands with on the way down, as if that would somehow make it better.

E-mails from Hell"A plane has hit the World Trade Center, but I'm ok." —E-mail from a lawyer, who remains missing, to his wife, 8:51 A.M., September 11.

"This is horrific. 13 people are stuck in my office at 90 William, putting wet towels under the doors to stop the smoke." —E-mail from lawyer Jonathan Perkel to friends, 10:58 A.M., September 11.

"Brian's clothes are pretty well ruined. When you go back to the apartment, could you stop at Eddie Bauer and get him some clothes? Jeans or khakis size 34. T-shirt medium. Boxers medium. Shoes size 10 1/2 or 11." —E-mail from Linda Miller to her husband, Mark, 12:00 P.M., about their son Brian, who escaped from the World Trade Center, September 11.

"On the street, we walked, the survivors. Alongside us were the workers of the fish market, in boots, jeans, T-shirts, aprons. 'We have water, ice, paper towels,' they yelled out. 'Whatever you need. Water, ice, paper towels.' When I got my towel wetted to wipe my face, clear my eyes, I asked where the ferry was. 'Back in hell. Just turn around, and hang a left in the center of hell.' " —E-mail from Lance Hunt to Esquire, September 12.

"We heard the engines of the plane and felt the shock when it hit. But there was no sense of urgency, even though the building continued to shake for like five minutes afterwards. I only first started to get nervous when we could begin to smell jet fuel in the air-conditioning ducts." —Dr. Alan Sokolow, chief medical officer, Empire Blue Cross.

"My husband called me from where he stood on the plaza, and I said get the fuck out of there. Hang up the phone and start running north. When you get twenty blocks away, start walking, and call me and tell me you're in the clear. Then buy a bicycle, ride it uptown, and take the train home." —Dr. Christine Hamilton-Hall, surgeon, Darien, Connecticut.

"I was in the foyer on the forty-fourth floor, near the express elevator. Security came over the loudspeaker. She was saying, 'Remain calm, damage is in Tower One. We appear to be okay.' Everyone was joking, repeating the word appear, when the second plane hit our building." —Morgan Stanley executive.

"Hello, my name is Willie C----. I'm calling every Schreiber in the phone book, trying to get some information about my mother, M----. She works in the World Trade Center for a woman named Schreiber. If this is that person, please call me at --. Thank you." —Message left on the answering machine of Melissa Schreiber, early afternoon, September 11.

"I wake up at night now — I sleep in fifteen-minute pops — and I wake up with the guys who jumped, with their eyes in my face. I see my boss and I looking west. We see the bodies on the ground and I ask him, 'Where did they come from?' Then I look up and I see debris like a macabre ticker-tape parade and bodies hurtling by — which you imagine are girders because your mind can't process it. I'm shattered, and yet I don't have a physical scratch on me. Why me? How? How many of us were right in the fireball and lived? It's like winning the worst lottery of all time." —Malcolm Hall, bond salesman, Tower Two.

"People were describing their loved ones, giving us identifying characteristics, like if the wedding band was engraved. All the while, I'm really trying hard to remember to use the present tense." —Debra Rosenzweig, psychologist and volunteer at Chelsea Piers temporary crisis center.

"The bodies were hitting the ground with such force, I could feel it in my chest." —A trader who worked at the World Trade Center.

"The situation inspired in me the feeling of being trapped in the hull of a lost submarine. For chrissakes, we were about 40 feet underground with no idea of what was about to hit us from above." —Paul Flint, a civilian contractor at the Pentagon.

"I saw a piece of somebody's leg get wrapped in burlap and left beneath a defoliated tree." —E-mail from student Nick Spangler to friends.

"I'll never forget the taste of granulated concrete, of having the World Trade Center in my mouth. I had a building in my eyes." —David Gallow, downtown resident.

"Only drink bottled water. They might have poisoned the water supply." —Voice mail from Ellen Jacobs to her son, 6:00 P.M., September 11.

"I got a respirator from somebody and ended up very close to WTC and past most of the police lines. Inches of moondust everywhere. A bar in the middle of it all was open, a little eerily, full of regular drunks who work nearby engaged in black humor just blocks from the shitstorm. They were making cheeseburgers by flashlight and throwing ice on the kegs. Right outside a half hour before I got there, a group of people had beat up a Palestinian guy after they saw Palestinians dancing in the streets handing out candy in Israel on TV." —E-mail from downtown resident Robertson Barrett to a friend.

"I do not live in Northern Ireland, Beirut, Afghanistan, or Israel. I live in Manhattan." —Amy Shapiro, Wall Street temp.

"I saw a man on the plaza being put in a body bag. Someone told us that he'd come running out of the lobby of the Trade Center a few minutes before, completely on fire." —Catherine LeBlanc, consultant, 2 World Financial Center.

"The biggest broker in my office refused to go anywhere. He was in his office and he said the safest thing to do in a situation like this is to stay put, wait for them to come and get you. There were two guys begging him to leave, and he refused, and they left. By that time, our mail room had fallen a few stories and the floor was on fire." —A trader in Tower Two.

I heard a first responder tell his story earlier this year about going in one of the towers and barely getting back out and a lot of other recollections. He also told about how many we're getting cancer now (asbestos related?) he also was stricken with cancer and lost parts of his jaw and shoulder.

I never did and still don't watch much of the documentaries or specials about 911. I still haven't come to grips with everything surrounding that day from how & why it happened to the post 911 world our country lives in.

However the one story I find incredibly fascinating and do watch from time to time is the story about Rick Rescorla (the man who predicted 911) and his efforts both prior to that day on on that Tuesday.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:I never did and still don't watch much of the documentaries or specials about 911. I still haven't come to grips with everything surrounding that day from how & why it happened to the post 911 world our country lives in.

However the one story I find incredibly fascinating and do watch from time to time is the story about Rick Rescorla (the man who predicted 911) and his efforts both prior to that day on on that Tuesday.

Wow, I had never heard of Rescorla. That is a man who took the dangers of the world seriously, prepared for them, and consequently saved thousands of lives.

FUDU wrote:I never did and still don't watch much of the documentaries or specials about 911. I still haven't come to grips with everything surrounding that day from how & why it happened to the post 911 world our country lives in.

However the one story I find incredibly fascinating and do watch from time to time is the story about Rick Rescorla (the man who predicted 911) and his efforts both prior to that day on on that Tuesday.