well considering the change to gluph of overpoewr and the POTENTIAL survivability it will rpovide maybe def stance sitting nerf wont be so bad for arms as it seems + pro arms warrs will always stay arms nomatter what

well considering the change to gluph of overpoewr and the POTENTIAL survivability it will rpovide maybe def stance sitting nerf wont be so bad for arms as it seems + pro arms warrs will always stay arms nomatter what

That glyph will have wild strikes increase the Die by the sword duration also.

And with wild strikes costing 0 rage with bloodsurge, burst being nerfed all over the board - fury might be "the thing" to keep pressure up now. I have not tested the arms on PTR myself but from what i heared, ragepooling is impossible with the new overpower.

Fury isn't capable of delivering pressure outside of cs on geared and decent playing people so I have my doubts on that.

Don't know about that, but since I'm not that serious on PvP to get my ratings up for 3v3, I'm stuck on T1 PvP weapon currently. So I've tried TG fury on 2v2 arenas and BG's for a few days now. Keeping T1 weapon on offhand and using PvE shinka on mainhand with prismatic socket and legendary gem (normal weapon upgraded 2/2) I can do about twice as much dps vs Arms with the pvp-weapon alone. Seen my Autoattacks crit as much as 81k on 44% PvP-power while still mostly favoring resilience gems, not to mention my raging blow crits without colossus still can be easily over 50k with main hand only, seen 125-150k mainhand crits with RB when all stuff aligns up. I have nearly 21% unbuffed crit on pvp gear with with that PvE weapon and it feels to be enough to never ever really have to use a wild strike (other than to get the healing debuff in ofc).

Even with all that increased damage for me, I tried using bloodthirst glyph. You get 2% heal per next three hits if you just keep it on cd and I can usually stay alive against healer+dps combo for around 1-1,5 minute(s), because of already larger healthpool my second wind still stays at 9k even with the current healing debuffs, while BT heals for 5-7k per hit. When you're forced to hit defensive stance and still can keep on your target, you are really hard to kill even without using shield wall. Would be funny to try 2v2 fury arena's because of the survivability. Sadly def stance nerf will also affect fury on 5.2, but hey, it still works so. :P

Sure, Arms might be somewhat better when you already have T2 weapon with it, but it seems so fluent to play fury for a change where I can have rage for HS all the time. It's kinda refreshing that HS also does some damage too and doesn't feel that useless than on Arms without stacks currently.

Don't know about that, but since I'm not that serious on PvP to get my ratings up for 3v3, I'm stuck on T1 PvP weapon currently. So I've tried TG fury on 2v2 arenas and BG's for a few days now. Keeping T1 weapon on offhand and using PvE shinka on mainhand with prismatic socket and legendary gem (normal weapon upgraded 2/2) I can do about twice as much dps vs Arms with the pvp-weapon alone. Seen my Autoattacks crit as much as 81k on 44% PvP-power while still mostly favoring resilience gems, not to mention my raging blow crits without colossus still can be easily over 50k with main hand only, seen 125-150k mainhand crits with RB when all stuff aligns up. I have nearly 21% unbuffed crit on pvp gear with with that PvE weapon and it feels to be enough to never ever really have to use a wild strike (other than to get the healing debuff in ofc).

Even with all that increased damage for me, I tried using bloodthirst glyph. You get 2% heal per next three hits if you just keep it on cd and I can usually stay alive against healer+dps combo for around 1-1,5 minute(s), because of already larger healthpool my second wind still stays at 9k even with the current healing debuffs, while BT heals for 5-7k per hit. When you're forced to hit defensive stance and still can keep on your target, you are really hard to kill even without using shield wall. Would be funny to try 2v2 fury arena's because of the survivability. Sadly def stance nerf will also affect fury on 5.2, but hey, it still works so. :P

Sure, Arms might be somewhat better when you already have T2 weapon with it, but it seems so fluent to play fury for a change where I can have rage for HS all the time. It's kinda refreshing that HS also does some damage too and doesn't feel that useless than on Arms without stacks currently.

Probably the numbers you are describing are under colossus smash debuff which sadly does not refresh as it does with arms and sudden death. Also not having raging blow for a long period of time due to bad rng can be devestating. Especially since you can't time your chain CCs AND RB mechanic RNG. Also if you use berserker rage just to proc RB, next thing you know is you are feared to oblivion, which might not be the end of the world, but it's a taboo for most old school warriors.

Originally Posted by meathead

The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

It's not that bad actually on RNG tbh, but probably because of my crit. There is always recklessness just for the RNG removal and when you need to go for the kill. Colossus doesn't refresh indeed, but it doesn't refresh that often for arms either, because of lousy uptime (well currently, but might be better in 5.2 due to changes). Sadly for me Fury does same damage without, as Arms does WITH colossus if you just get enrage up alone - at least in my case, probably partly because of the weapons scenario. Might have something to do with colossus being only 50% to players too?

If you manage to get crit buff and because on lvl 90 you won't have the -3% crit (or more like -6% crit on BT) level difference reduction, it's always true 50% chance to crit with BT every 4 sec, what isn't that bad considering how the time flies on PvP. If you could get RB everytime, you wouldn't even need to use cooldowns at all. It just hits so much, usually 25% hp away from a pally healer with a single global, at least if you fill HS in there too. Obviously depends on opponents gear, but on average it does that much for me.

The good thing is that I can use Shockwave and stormbolt with ease and still sweep pretty devastating demand burst (like +35k end dps log according to skada against other melee, while still getting kited/cc'd during the short combat with target switches). Yes, stormbolt should be superior for Arms too because of extra control atm, but some people still argue about the extra 20% damage you might need for Arms. I'm not that serious on PvP or even being high rated so always take my opinions with a grain of salt, but it seems to be viable even know.

You get extra hp regen, bigger healthpool and higher burst. Well okay, it might not be so good with the blue pvp-gear due to lower amount of stats or even without PvE weapon, but I don't see any problems doing viable damage in my case. Just have to time the burst more and I usually can suprise some of the opponents because they don't have time to react (or in turn can't kill me ha!).

The problem with 50% crit chance on bloodthirst is that (and those that have roulette experience have seen it plenty of times) it can go as unlucky as 7-10 bloodthirsts without a crit (if you are betting on black on roulette, using martingale and red ends up 8 times in the row you are pretty much broke). Factoring you might get slowed, or CC'd, or kited, or your bloodthirst get parried you could end up with a good whole minute without a single raging blow!

Also apart from sudden death, arms has overpower which cannot be dodged or parried. While I might not have big problems with dodges, against mirrors there is a significant number of parries. A special attack that will do, some damage, versus another special attack which might get parried can mean a lot in score board.

But apart from theory and RNG talk I have personal experience. I got a friend of mine healer with 9000 resilience and I dpsed him in full pvp gear as arms and as fury for a significant time period (20 minutes each session). Arms was doing significant more sustained than fury (if i remember correctly more than 5k dps difference on recount).

The test got me thinking, if fury was doing more sustained than arms, someone would notice climb the ladders and the rest of the ignorant copycats would make it a trend. There is a reason the vast majority of high ranked play arms: more damage.

The big question is could 5.2 change that status? Only time and testing will tell since I dont play on the PTR yet.

Originally Posted by meathead

The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

Parries.. yes, those aren't nice. However, they are only a problem if you're facing DK with a icebound fortitude, because while stunned, the opponent wont parry at all! That's why I like keeping stormbolt and Shockwave currently, because it allows me to get the opponent under 50% before the stunlock from the start even ends, for example if it's double dps vs double dps. 5.2 will change that and parry might be a bigger problem than now to be honest. Well not actually for the burst, but after the burst we can't have a second shockwave soon again to give us guaranteed hits.

My problem on Arms damage is definitely the T1 weapon. The difference is just too huge, what is kind of sad for me.

Parries.. yes, those aren't nice. However, they are only a problem if you're facing DK with a icebound fortitude, because while stunned, the opponent wont parry at all! That's why I like keeping stormbolt and Shockwave currently, because it allows me to get the opponent under 50% before the stunlock from the start even ends, for example if it's double dps vs double dps. 5.2 will change that and parry might be a bigger problem than now to be honest. Well not actually for the burst, but after the burst we can't have a second shockwave soon again to give us guaranteed hits.

My problem on Arms damage is definitely the T1 weapon. The difference is just too huge, what is kind of sad for me.

You got me interesting into giving fury another try. Can you define in what order and on what scenarios you use shockwave and stormbolt? How does warbringer stun, if you take it fits into the equation.

I've always thought of shockwave as a peel and control mechanic, not as an "increase my dps by decreasing parries" cd, therefore my previous question.

Originally Posted by meathead

The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.