You know what's funny? I pop on here this morning and see that in many threads, people are giving you shit. I felt bad. It read like "Beat Up on Severin Day."

No, I'm not mad. And geez, the quotes weren't that old. I was just browsing around last night and I couldn't really figure out your attitude. That's really about it.

That’s just Guest. He’s a wanker. And Genteel Death. Two of the most pretentious fucks to ever grace this forum, and their troll timer went off. Guest got super mad once when I told him he was acting like a 21-year-old (which he was, at the time at least) but seems dead set on proving that he is, in fact, his age. Just humorless, graceless, nagging self-righteous snobbery.

Don’t feel bad, but yeah... kinda felt a little WTF for a moment, reading Guest’s gloriously mature response to my conplimenting his taste in music, and then coming in here to see this.

What happened anyway? I love Common! He’s not doing anything new, but he made one of my favorite hip-hop albums of 2016! I love Talib’s old shit, and his new shit’s fine by me. Just because they’re done shocking me doesn’t me I have anything against them. Called them both legends, didn’t I?

Was it because I said he wasn’t still evolving? Well, he’s been in it for 25 years. I think he’s free to rest on his laurels a bit. And his last album was his best in YEARS.

Of course I'm serious. My only beef with "Be" is that it's a bit too short, but that just gives me an excuse to listen to it again. (And Kanye produced "Get By" which might be Talib's best track.) So no, not fucking around at all.

Of course I'm serious. My only beef with "Be" is that it's a bit too short, but that just gives me an excuse to listen to it again. (And Kanye produced "Get By" which might be Talib's best track.) So no, not fucking around at all.

Album or song too short? Both, I say. And yes. Agreed. Be was an album of transformation for Kanye, or perhaps realization. Came into his own as a producer, really defined the sound of the album. Also, of course, a defining moment for Common.

I feel like there’s another path Kanye could have taken, where instead of being on Jay Z and Cam’ron joints, he stuck with artists closer to the (relative) underground, and fashioned a solo career from there instead of from his ties with Roc-a-fella and so on. I wonder what that solo career would have looked like, if his audience had been just a little bit smaller, the expectations a little less... uhm, global... Sometimes I look at Black Mill and think, “that’s where he’d be.”

Either way, I’m glad he did what he did. There are plenty of folks who loathe him, but he’s stamped out a place in music history as surely as any artist of the millennium has. And he’s made a lot of people’s ears very happy. It warms my heart to hear (read) that your ears would be impoverished if not for him.

I mostly meant the song "Be." As a musician, I'm guessing you can appreciate the magic of the intro. The bass part shouldn't be able to flow into the rhythm of the rest of the song, but it does and it's surprising yet satisfying. Tricks my ears every time.

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Originally Posted by Severian

There are plenty of folks who loathe him,

Is that a music thing or a personalty thing? He is a genius. What? He's not supposed to mention that? "I just told you what I thought I was. A god!" Yes. Yes. Fuck them.

And I'm so out of it, I thought he interrupted Taylor Swift at the Grammys. Recently learned it was the fucking Video Music Awards. Big whoop. Get over yourself world and be grateful he allows you to listen to his shit.

I'm not nearly the fan you are. But the tracks I love, I really love and listen to compulsively. "Jesus Walks" alone deserves a Nobel Prize.

maybe I'm a cynic, but I just assume that Kanye and T-Swift are like "in on it" together. The stupid drama stuff. I don't know. It just seems pretty symbiotic. They keep each other on people's mouths. No press is bad press. Etc.

I don't really care. I love them both. I also tend to ignore things like award shows and celeb gossip, TMZ et al.

Back on topic - yeah that intro to "Be" is glorious. I could listen to just the first 30 seconds or whatever on repeat. I also think it's hilarious that John Mayer is given a credit for literally one syllable on this record - ha! And I love that the version of "The Food" that made the album is the live recording from Chappelle Show. Be is seriously just such a cool timestamp of an album. And like Sev mentioned, it's basically the wabbling of the fence for Kanye. Which side to fall off - backpackers or The Roc? Y'know? For a second there he was leaning towards the backpackers and probably would have forever been part of that Blackstar lineage instead of the super famous dude he is now.

Like how "popular" has the Chappelle Block Party crowd ever gotten? Like in the mainstream awareness? I think that some people know who Common or Mos Def are... because they've done some acting or whatever. And these are dudes that've been kicking around since the 90's.

So I guess I just think that even if he made something insanely groundbreaking within that world, it would just be big fish/little pond.

I'm trying to think of a good analogy for what I'm trying to express, but I don't know. It's Friday and I'm kind of tired. Ha.

I mostly meant the song "Be." As a musician, I'm guessing you can appreciate the magic of the intro. The bass part shouldn't be able to flow into the rhythm of the rest of the song, but it does and it's surprising yet satisfying. Tricks my ears every time.

Is that a music thing or a personalty thing? He is a genius. What? He's not supposed to mention that? "I just told you what I thought I was. A god!" Yes. Yes. Fuck them.

And I'm so out of it, I thought he interrupted Taylor Swift at the Grammys. Recently learned it was the fucking Video Music Awards. Big whoop. Get over yourself world and be grateful he allows you to listen to his shit.

I'm not nearly the fan you are. But the tracks I love, I really love and listen to compulsively. "Jesus Walks" alone deserves a Nobel Prize.

Are you buttering me up because you kinda fucked with me yesterday? Cuz it’s working.

Hoenslfy from my experience it’s a personal thing. Most folks I know who have any interest in music at all will tell you the same boring thing: “As a person, I don’t like him, but his music’s good.”

Like that’s a novel concept or something? Yeah, you and everyone. Also, you don’t know him so how can you “not like him as a person?” You can not like his public antics, but you don’t know shit about who he actually is.

I also think he’s a genius, and not inna Hendrix way or a Lennon way, but more in a... Warhol way? I dunno. He synthesizes a creative process, and everything that goes into it, even if the individual element is engineered by someone else (Hudson Mohawk, Mike Dean, etc.), Kanye’s the one who says, “cool idea, but this is how I want to use it for this effect.”

Not that it’s always that way. He’s perfectly capable of making every creative decision on a project from lyrics to beats to production to art, but as his profile has grown, so has the size of the arena. What he did with his “Rap Camp” on MBDTF is an arfistic achievement of the highest degree. He has an ability to sort of “collage” sounds and ideas into *feelings,* so even when he’s calling some white girl a bitch or saying disgusting sex stuff, what you walk away with is an emotional button that has been pushed in a very satisfying way.

Yeah, it was the dumbass VMAs, not the Grammys. Oddly, a lot of people don’t know that. Who gives a shit? Also, he was 100% right. Beyoncé’s video was better and so was her song. Not even a contest.

That moment is pretty widely seen as either a sick burn or a colossal fail, but it kickstarted a conversation that is ongoing to this day about institutional racism in award shows. *shrug*

Have you seen the video where he says that? That, “I told you what I was, a god!” thing? He actually drills into some pretty serious shit in that rant. “Would it have been better if I’d said I’m a ni**er?” I mean, he says it with venom and sounds like a whiny child, but his points valid. “What you don’t like is the fact that this guy who’s supposed to be a n***er is has the audacity to call himself a god, when a ni**er is all he should ever be” or some such.

Pretty interesting, really.

Also, “Jesus Walks” did win an NAACP songwriting award, which is pretty cool.

Yeah. The songs I love, I fucking love too.

Yesterday I watched a YouTube video of someone covering “Runaway” with a beat made by throwing a DVD of “Bee Movie” into the toilet and flushing it. But it still got my blood up. That is quite possibly the greatest song of the millennium.

it's the reason Ghostface could re-use all those MF Doom beats on Fishscale. Because even though those were old beats to "us," the major label rap world had never heard them. I feel like when Ghost started doing work w/ Doom it was like mainstream rap world thought that Ghost had like "discovered" him.

Also, he was 100% right. Beyoncé’s video was better and so was her song. Not even a contest.

I don't even know what song/video it was that Swifty was winning for. (You know I don't care). But I probably liked it more than "Single Ladies." Not that it matters. It was "Single Ladies" right? Unless it was "Drunk In Love" - that's a different conversation. I forget. And don't care. I'm not even sure why I'm typing this.

maybe I'm thinking about like Madvillain. I think within the crowd who know, Madvillainy is this absolute classic right? But... who's even heard of it outside of those in the know?

Madvillain was huge though. It was all over year-end lists, seeped into Adult Swim culture, was one of the biggest breakthroughs of ‘03.

But yeah, there’s a difference between that level and co-headlining the highest-grossing hip-hop tour of all time with Jay-Z.

Last year he beat Michael Jackson’s record for most appearances in the top 40 for a male solo artist. His concert in 2016 — a relatively low-key year for Kanye-mania compared to, like, 2007 or 2010 or 2013 — was the biggest live show I’ve ever seen. Made The Rolling Stones look like a garage band.

There’s definitely two different levels of hop-hop success (maybe three) and Kanye has... well, honestly, surpassed “hip-hop” success and become a mainstream cultural icon, a la Prince or MJ (now that SFAD isn’t here, I can say that... hahaha!). Common is extremely well-known, but not many average folks know Common songs.

I’m glad he went where he went, because the music he’s made has made my life better.

I don't even know what song/video it was that Swifty was winning for. (You know I don't care). But I probably liked it more than "Single Ladies." Not that it matters. It was "Single Ladies" right? Unless it was "Drunk In Love" - that's a different conversation. I forget. And don't care. I'm not even sure why I'm typing this.

‘Twas “Single Ladies,” which is a great video and a spank Bank classic for a generation. Also a great song. And Taylor was still in country land at the time, so whatever her song was probably wouldn’t have even appealed to you. The one about Romeo and Juliet I think. Blech.

My wife's a huge Beyonce fan. I'm more casual. I really didn't enjoy an album beginning to end until the self-titled one (that's the "Drunk In Love" one right?). And actually I think Lemonade would be my fav.

But I'm a way bigger fan of Taylor.

At any rate,

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Madvillain was huge though. It was all over year-end lists, seeped into Adult Swim culture, was one of the biggest breakthroughs of ‘03.

you're echoing my statement tho. Yeah it was huge... for which year end lists? I mean "Adult Swim Culture" isn't the same thing as Grammys and TMZ is what I'm saying. Madvillainy was huge for "us" in this nerdy music world. But Doom is not a household name to the people who know who Kanye and Taylor Swift are.