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Commander S
23,851

Commander S
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The 'play as anyone, but anyone can be lost permanently, too' gimmick is interesting, but ...ugh, I don't like setting, and I think it's a shame they didn't just do a straight-up sequel to Watch Dogs 2, but set in a recognisable version of London.

This looks like a Detroit: Become Human near-future, crossed with the 'dystopian police state as filtered through McFarlane Toys' look from Arkham City, as written by someone who got all their knowledge of London from watching SNL skits or the wedding episodes of Friends.

The more I think of it, the more it could have played out like the Watch Dogs version of Spooks (aka "MI-5" in the US), in terms of really making good use of a London setting where the existing infrastructure gets given the ctOS treatment, but everything else is more or less familiar. WD2 had "Church of the New Dawn" as an obvious Scientology analogue, and "Nudle" instead of Google - similar to how Spooks had episodes covering stuff like parallels to the threats directed towards Salman Rushdie, another dealing with a BNP-like organisation ("The British Way"), etc.

Maybe it's just Ubisoft doing that (IMO frustrating) thing of wanting their games to sound hot-button topical enough, but without actually having to grapple with real issues, and thus get away with still calling things "apolitical". So this is technically a "post-Brexit dystopia", but only inasmuch as 'Brexit led do a zombie outbreak, and so the story is more about that' still counts as a 'post-Brexit dystopia'. And the irony is that if they actually put Brexit aside, and looked at all the other facets of London and Britain (class, culture, history, take yer pick), they wouldn't have needed to (apparently) overcompensate so much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Shame, really - particularly because Ubisoft actually did pull off something not that far removed from what I've described (albeit set 150 years ago!) with Assassin's Creed Syndicate. As it is, I'm not really feeling this one...

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Ivan1997GTA
1,521

Ivan1997GTA
1,521

Bad news for PC players it's on Uplay and is also an epic store exclusive.

Ouch. I knew that the PC version is gonna be on Uplay, but Epic Store exclusive? Come on!

It's a bit off-topic, but I hope the Epic Store will improve by the year 2020.

Anyway, from the looks of it, I'm actually glad that Watch_Dogs: Legion is not a numbered entry in the series. Maybe the Watch_Dogs series will be handled like the Far Cry games: the numbered entries will be grounded and down-to-Earth for the most part, while the spin-off games will go for a more over-the-top route, like Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon and Far Cry: New Dawn.

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DexMacLeod
1,091

DexMacLeod
1,091

Ouch. I knew that the PC version is gonna be on Uplay, but Epic Store exclusive? Come on!

It's a bit off-topic, but I hope the Epic Store will improve by the year 2020.

Anyway, from the looks of it, I'm actually glad that Watch_Dogs: Legion is not a numbered entry in the series. Maybe the Watch_Dogs series will be handled like the Far Cry games: the numbered entries will be grounded and down-to-Earth for the most part, while the spin-off games will go for a more over-the-top route, like Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon and Far Cry: New Dawn.

I don't know, I've always found Watch Dogs' version of the near future to be a bit over the top but it's consistent and feels like it's been progressing pretty naturally as the series goes on. I feel like they've sort of always been building up to a full on dystopia. Admittedly, it does feel like they've maybe skipped a step along the way though.

I've said it before but I would have preferred a third game where we weed out corruption in the highest forms of American Government only to learn it's a worldwide problem and America actually had it pretty easy compared to a lot of other countries.

They have given themselves a pretty good out by blaming it all on Brexit, though. Now for a potential sequel they can just go somewhere else and dial back the dystopia. Though I feel like going backwards after this would feel pretty lame.

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Commander S
23,851

Commander S
23,851

We criticize R* a lot for their political stance and satire but tbh they are the only dev at the moment that can at least "pull it off".

Eh, I reckon other games have done better than the likes of GTA - GTA arguably doesn't even do satire, so much as just 'mocking caricature'. Satire has to have some kind of point/subtext (and in doing so, the creator commits to their own stance on the subject - you can't have 'neutral' satire!), and GTA never really goes beyond 'let's exaggerate something to make it look stupid, and then point and laugh'. Like I say, mocking caricature - but not really much beyond that. And in many instances, Dan H. and co. pull their punches to a degree that I find increasingly frustrating.

Compare GTA V's take on Scientology to Watch Dogs 2, for example - GTA has the Epsilon Cult, and it's a mix of 'this is all just a giant scam aimed at milking gullible rich folk, particularly celebs' plus 'heh - they do talk a lot of daft wibble, don't they?'. Meanwhile, Watch Dogs 2 actually had things like pointing out how Scientology "New Dawn" uses smear tactics to kneecap powerful critics, prioritises celeb recruitment as good PR, peddles a bunch of 'ancient aliens' horsesh*t, and ...deals with possible defectors by sending them to detention facilities (sometimes resorting to torture). And then you, as Marcus, get to expose them. It's really not afraid to go into specifics, or hide the fact that whoever wrote that part of the game really wanted to put the boot in for the Dianetics brigade...

Same for things like a mission where you get to screw over a Martin Shkreli analogue - Watch Dogs 2 was surprisingly good like that overall, and ...ugh, that's one more reason I'm not really digging how Legion seems to have discarded pretty much everything I liked about WD2.

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Spider-Vice
31,110

Spider-Vice
31,110

The 'play as anyone, but anyone can be lost permanently, too' gimmick is interesting, but ...ugh, I don't like setting, and I think it's a shame they didn't just do a straight-up sequel to Watch Dogs 2, but set in a recognisable version of London.

This looks like a Detroit: Become Human near-future, crossed with the 'dystopian police state as filtered through McFarlane Toys' look from Arkham City, as written by someone who got all their knowledge of London from watching SNL skits or the wedding episodes of Friends.

The more I think of it, the more it could have played out like the Watch Dogs version of Spooks (aka "MI-5" in the US), in terms of really making good use of a London setting where the existing infrastructure gets given the ctOS treatment, but everything else is more or less familiar. WD2 had "Church of the New Dawn" as an obvious Scientology analogue, and "Nudle" instead of Google - similar to how Spooks had episodes covering stuff like parallels to the threats directed towards Salman Rushdie, another dealing with a BNP-like organisation ("The British Way"), etc.

Maybe it's just Ubisoft doing that (IMO frustrating) thing of wanting their games to sound hot-button topical enough, but without actually having to grapple with real issues, and thus get away with still calling things "apolitical". So this is technically a "post-Brexit dystopia", but only inasmuch as 'Brexit led do a zombie outbreak, and so the story is more about that' still counts as a 'post-Brexit dystopia'. And the irony is that if they actually put Brexit aside, and looked at all the other facets of London and Britain (class, culture, history, take yer pick), they wouldn't have needed to (apparently) overcompensate so much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Shame, really - particularly because Ubisoft actually did pull off something not that far removed from what I've described (albeit set 150 years ago!) with Assassin's Creed Syndicate. As it is, I'm not really feeling this one...

I couldn't have put it better myself. This one just doesn't attract me, it feels like a completely different IP.

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DOUGL4S1
4,610

DOUGL4S1
4,610

Did they get Stephen Merchant to voice this Alexa-looking thing? He sounds a lot like Wheatley from Portal 2. I may be wrong, probably because of the accent with a robotic effect on top, but I can't unhear Wheatley.

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Laker23
4,761

Laker23
4,761

Eh, I reckon other games have done better than the likes of GTA - GTA arguably doesn't even do satire, so much as just 'mocking caricature'. Satire has to have some kind of point/subtext (and in doing so, the creator commits to their own stance on the subject - you can't have 'neutral' satire!), and GTA never really goes beyond 'let's exaggerate something to make it look stupid, and then point and laugh'. Like I say, mocking caricature - but not really much beyond that. And in many instances, Dan H. and co. pull their punches to a degree that I find increasingly frustrating.

Compare GTA V's take on Scientology to Watch Dogs 2, for example - GTA has the Epsilon Cult, and it's a mix of 'this is all just a giant scam aimed at milking gullible rich folk, particularly celebs' plus 'heh - they do talk a lot of daft wibble, don't they?'. Meanwhile, Watch Dogs 2 actually had things like pointing out how Scientology "New Dawn" uses smear tactics to kneecap powerful critics, prioritises celeb recruitment as good PR, peddles a bunch of 'ancient aliens' horsesh*t, and ...deals with possible defectors by sending them to detention facilities (sometimes resorting to torture). And then you, as Marcus, get to expose them. It's really not afraid to go into specifics, or hide the fact that whoever wrote that part of the game really wanted to put the boot in for the Dianetics brigade...

Same for things like a mission where you get to screw over a Martin Shkreli analogue - Watch Dogs 2 was surprisingly good like that overall, and ...ugh, that's one more reason I'm not really digging how Legion seems to have discarded pretty much everything I liked about WD2.

Couldn't agree more, they did that stuff really well and was actually entertaining to play through.

On another note, I have no idea if any previews mentioned it but I hope the number of missions where I'm forced to 'GTA' and shoot sh*t up is kept to a minimum. The best part about the series for me is how different you could approach missions than the regular stuff I'm used to from other games, so I hope they don't go away from that.

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DexMacLeod
1,091

DexMacLeod
1,091

Couldn't agree more, they did that stuff really well and was actually entertaining to play through.

On another note, I have no idea if any previews mentioned it but I hope the number of missions where I'm forced to 'GTA' and shoot sh*t up is kept to a minimum. The best part about the series for me is how different you could approach missions than the regular stuff I'm used to from other games, so I hope they don't go away from that.

I imagine that stuff will stay mostly the same. Allowing for multiple playstyles in kind of a mainstay of Ubisoft openworlds at this point. The variety of characters and their abilities makes me think this might be their most versatile game yet.

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Billy Russo
5,718

Billy Russo
5,718

Is it me or does the graphics and city presentation look slightly dated? I don't get that normal Ubi "look at this greatness" hype and presentation like previous years.

I have to agree. Graphically it feels like a step down from Watch Dogs 2. I was personally pretty impressed with WD2. The vibrant and colorful setting of San Francisco was beautiful. I do like the futurustic themes, but I actually feel as though I would have preferred a more grittier London.

Still, we have to yet to see all the map or the final version, so I may feel differently about it.

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Edward Nashton
1,826

Edward Nashton
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I'm okay with the futuristic look. The series has always been hinting that it was (quickly) heading towards a dystopian future: pre-crime a.i algorithms, the Bellwether, secret robotic spider-tank weapons, etc. People forget or never really noticed that the Watch_Dogs series has always been in the cyberpunk genre, just about all the tropes are there except maybe body modification, it's just been lo-fi up to this point. I guess it's jarring to see for some people now that it actually looks more like traditional cyberpunk fiction.

Edit: Also, right now London is one of the most surveilled cities in the world. There couldn't be a city more appropriate to set this game in, considering how much the gameplay relies on hacking security cameras and all...

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Commander S
23,851

Commander S
23,851

I'm just wondering how on earth it'll work as either a sequel to the previous two games, and as a 'post-Brexit' status quo:

As a Watch Dogs sequel, I reckon the 'cartoonishly over-the-top police state' stuff is going to get in the way of them doing anything interesting with ctOS - WD1 didn't really explore ctOS as proper speculative fiction, but WD2 very much did, with SF being a perfect place to do so. Moving to London - a denser city with more CCTV in which to incorporate ctOS tech - made so much sense on paper, so it's disappointing that it's more going to be about hacking security drones than screwing around with Tube scheduling or what-have-you.

As a study of contemporary London, again, "Albion" is so much of an exaggeration, divorced from the reality of UK nationalist groups, that it doesn't really make sense as a possible post-Brexit scenario. Frankly, the sort of things that'd need to happen in order for the UK to wind up like that wouldn't need Brexit, anyway - so ...why bother with it as pretext, then? And in doing so, there's a whole lot of more Watch Dogs 2-esque stuff based on actual recent UK events/politics/technology left on the table, because they're going for such an unrealistic extreme instead - late-era New Labour's proposal of biometric ID cards, the Windrush scandal, Cambridge Analytica, you name it, all given a ctOS spin.

...gah, I really can't get over the fact that this isn't a WD2-style "Watch Dogs 3". I get that WD2 didn't sell as well as hoped, but it was really well-received - and a large part of why it didn't sell was because WD1 didn't live up to the hype. WD2 was mostly regarded as 'what the first game should have been', so scrapping everything from that rather than building on it feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me.

One of the things that really stood out to me is that apparently, along with permadeath, you can also get arrested. It's a bit vague but the way I interpreted it, if a character gets arrested they go to jail for awhile, making them unplayable for a period of time and certain character traits will affect the length of the arrest.

Another thing, it doesn't seem like the new location, time jump, or police state have drastically changed the chore mechanics of the game. The impression I got from the preview is that it's essentially the same Watch Dogs, just bigger and better.

One of the things that really stood out to me is that apparently, along with permadeath, you can also get arrested. It's a bit vague but the way I interpreted it, if a character gets arrested they go to jail for awhile, making them unplayable for a period of time and certain character traits will affect the length of the arrest.

If jailed, Hudson explained, the character would be inaccessible for a period of time, though players could hack the enemy’s systems to get them an early release. Players could also try to find a lawyer in the game world, he said, and the lawyer might have the ability to automatically prevent a character from being jailed.

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DexMacLeod
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DexMacLeod
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"Hocking told me that the simulation for the game’s civilians is so elaborate that a player could kill a non-player character’s spouse and that that NPC would start visiting the cemetery to mourn and then would eventually date again."

I get the feeling that even if the multiple playable characters feature hurts the story this is still gonna be one helluva fun sandbox to play in. One with a lot of replayability too.

Also this:

As Hudson wandered the city as Caleb Smith, he spotted a loan shark named Lionel Horne who sported this odd biographical detail: “has disease named after them.” Even more interesting were his special traits. Recruiting him would give allow players to control a guy who does 100% more damage. Great, right? There was just the issue of his other major trait: “may die randomly.”

"Hocking told me that the simulation for the game’s civilians is so elaborate that a player could kill a non-player character’s spouse and that that NPC would start visiting the cemetery to mourn and then would eventually date again."

I get the feeling that even if the multiple playable characters feature hurts the story this is still gonna be one helluva fun sandbox to play in. One with a lot of replayability too.

Also this:

As Hudson wandered the city as Caleb Smith, he spotted a loan shark named Lionel Horne who sported this odd biographical detail: “has disease named after them.” Even more interesting were his special traits. Recruiting him would give allow players to control a guy who does 100% more damage. Great, right? There was just the issue of his other major trait: “may die randomly.”

Finding that guy might be the first thing I do.

I saw that in the E3 gameplay. There was a moment where they hovered over an NPC and it said 'may die randomly'. That's pretty cool. I like that they won't just be blank and generic NPC's, they'll have traits about them. I saw a Police guy in the trailer at E3, and it makes me wonder what the traits of a character like that would be. Maybe you'll be able to enter more places and also not getting suspected by the cops as much.

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DEALUX
2,360

DEALUX
2,360

Is it me or does the graphics and city presentation look slightly dated? I don't get that normal Ubi "look at this greatness" hype and presentation like previous years.

That's a theme with Ubisoft games as of late. They're sort of jumping between looking like a good mobile game and looking like a modern PC\console title (at times).

Gameplay looks promising but I'm not a huge fan of the subject matter. It also seems like the actors and writing might be even worse than the first game. Maybe they should keep the hacking stuff but focus more heavily on story or other things. I feel like this "hacker revolution" theme is going to be beaten to death in this game or it happened already in the second one.

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AndyGanteks
11,285

AndyGanteks
11,285

I have a feel the IGN preview is hyping the game a bit much and it will not have all those features, or they won't be as deep as hyped to sound like. Here's some lines i caught in PCGamer preview also sounding similarly.

Quote

Recruiting someone is a multi-step process, sped up for this demo, but winning them over essentially involves completing side content to help win them over to the Dedsec cause, with a bar representing their opinion of the group. You'll finally complete an origin mission, which makes them playable.

Quote

Legion feels well optimised for those playing styles. With five storylines and over 60 missions, there should be plenty of opportunity to experiment until you find the class and character traits you like. And even if you don't care about getting that granular, recruiting an army of pensioners is probably quite fun too.

Quote

We've recorded 20 different what we call 'narrative personas', and those narrative personas all have their own lines written, so it's not just different voices saying the same stuff. They all have different personalities, perspectives and viewpoints, and those are combined with all the other things, the physical animation archetypes and all of that stuff. But roughly, there's 20 major characterisations across the game." That means your recruits will react differently in cutscenes, and that it's much more than just an appearance swap.

Quote

Let's say one of your playable characters gets put in hospital, and you use another character to prioritise their healthcare. Would that improve the opinion of Dedsec to the family of your hospitalised character, and make them potentially easier to recruit? Does it go that far? "It does go that deep, yep. The best way to answer your question is to say once you recruit people into your team, they're not removed from the simulation. They're going to keep walking around the world, living their lives and having their friends and family. And yeah, if one of our operatives gets captured by an enemy who's decided to take revenge, and you go and free them, their family will be positively impacted by you having freed them, just as if it was a character in the world."

Quote

Ubisoft isn't saying anything about what happens when you play online in Legion, just that singleplayer is the 'springboard' into that experience.

I mean it sounds great if true, but i doubt it's going that deep in.

More likely if you follow a random NPC, he'll just end up walking in a circle until the next thing in his scripted schedule begins or something like that. And maybe you'll eventually meet with a randomly generated NPC that looks just like your currently playable person too, or sounds like him.