I know that there is a mass scramble going on at the moment to get ready or going to the event, so this is really for the ones left behind.

Imagine if you will a large enough art installation that a handful if not more (10-13 people) could camp within the structure.

Are most of the large sculptures far away from the camps or set within with camps surrounding them?

The reason I ask is I am deep within the design process for a potential 2013 showing and I am gathering as much data as I can.

The basic idea is to create a great umbrella (that is not the actual design but paints a clear shape) with some built in effects that would be open during the day for the general public and our camp during the night.

I suspect that some sort of security must be established to protect the structure from vandals...and we will need some place to stay...why not combine?

Is this true for some other installations?

In the collective experience out there is there something wrong with my logic?

If you plan to actually camp *within* the structure, then you'll want to keep it sized to fit within a registered theme camp space (max of about 200x200 footprint). Keep in mind that the space needs to be fairly efficiently utilized (ie, if you've only got 2 people camping inside a 200x200 plot, they probably won't accept the application no matter how cool the project is). If your space request is reasonable and you've got a good plan for your camp, placement should be able to help accommodate what you need.

You need to protect your stuff, sleeping bags, food and whatever from people coming in. Most camps with interactive space also have private space. I don't know exactly how you mean that you will sleep in it at night, if you just sleep in it, set up hammocks or whatever, you might be okay. If you want any "down time" (vital for the introverts like me) or daytime napping or keeping gear safe in the structure while idiots who don't appreciate your work climb all over it, this is problematic.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I don't want to ruin the end resulting surprise but if you consider a 150' x 150' umbrella (again it is not going to be an umbrella, but the shape establishes a working shape without giving away my design) structure...I have been open to changes as I am gathering more data, which was the plan...inside there will be a graduated ramp that will slowly rise until various platforms are reached with view ports or balconies, finally reaching the top with a covered gazebo.

Within the same structure, beneath the ramps will be supports and empty space.

Within the same structure, within the center of the umbrella with the ramp spiraling around is another void.

These voids are what I am considering.

Think of it as a camp tent within a ring installation with another tent over the whole thing.

The camp would be sealed within reason, I suspect we would have several personnel within the actual camp 24/7. Night owls sleeping the day away so better to party and creep about. Diurnal types about taking care of the daily processes.

I have several designs on the table at the moment depending on what I am allowed to work with.

But at this point I am planning a couple long slides to get down quickly.

As far as the ADA considerations...I would need a bit of insurance with a simple medical and wavier of intent...the slider will know best if they are capable of sliding...but I suspect a tandem slide or a sled with soft out riggers could be provided?

I am 100% willing to consider this aspect...but it needs serious developed design, and that takes time.

But I like where it is going.

Thanks again all!

Atomic Ray

PSCamp charter...here is where things get interesting...I suspect with the size considerations and usage issues I would be looking at 10, 15, or 20 personnel staying within the camp proper. I can get 15 reliable people together with limited notice. But at this point I would be looking to limit the night time viewing of the installation to allow for some down time...perhaps midnight will be the cut off? An 8am or 9am opening time?

But the idea of gifting is still alien to me...I understand the basis but the actual function and logistics is escaping me. I am interested in this event to create the art piece, not to party per say...certainly not to set up a bar and get strangers hammered...and most assuredly not to feed the vast unwashed masses

That is my current badge of hesitation that I am wearing...certainly providing a huge interactive art installation will be enough? Is it expected to also provide water, food, alcohol, music, toilets, showers, etc. for everyone?

Please do not think me uncharitable, quite the opposite. But I am a bit guarded with my living space, my family, and my friends. In a toxic desert where there is absolutely nothing, you are expected to bring everything you will want or need for personal use.

The story of the burn roach that snatched another's water bottle because they were thirsty...hmmm I suspect I may get in trouble. If this happened, I would most likely hurt this person...I do not want to...that is not who I want to be, but stealing a resource because you are a worthless cockroach just baffles me.

"you do not have the right attitude"

That is what I am expecting to hear. And if this is true...if I have the wrong attitude then please please tell me now before I commit to this project.

If I were displaying at a fine art festival and someone walked up and snatched a water bottle from my or my wife's hand...at the very least they would be escorted out and banned form the event, but more than likely they would be detained by the local police.

If I were at a camp ground and the same thing happened, some random roach walks up and snatches water or food...I would most likely give him a free lesson in applied judo and what the dirt tastes like...then escort the individual away or to an official.

If I am strung to tight for this event I need to know. I don't want to go through all this and then need to be surrounded by a ring of friends or be a hermit to avoid the potential grief.

Again, this whole begging thing would really make me angry.

I may end up setting up a simple oven and bake bread (I am a certified chef, caterer, and have my food manager's certificate...I can get a Nevada stamp without issue) and gift this bread...water, flour, soda, salt, sugar, spices, herbs, etc...I can make bread for pennies...but how to disperse it?

I have been involved with hurricane and flood response as a first responder and we ended up dealing with all kinds of people...most were just beaten and worn thin...but others became bullies and would assault others for their food...as I was an agent with the government at the time I was able to deal with these guys in a manner that was appropriate, but in a desert temporary city with all kinds of people and no authority...how do you deal with the aggressive, abusive, and inappropriate people? Do these Rangers handle these issues?

I am picturing a burn roach pushing through the line and snatching an armload of fresh bread and throwing it on the ground...then stomping around claiming it is a performance piece.

Begging, roaches, and other agents of chaos (that is not the compliment that some would assume it to be)...could surely ruin my fun.

Have you all found that this is a one in a million sort of situation or is it common place and considered a fun unexpected act?

I suspect I would be the subject of one of those stories that people would tell for sometime...making him eat every single dirt stained piece of bread...as the second act of the performance piece.

You really, really need to just go, get the feel for it. The answers will become obvious.

No, a theme camp is not required to provide everything for the campers, not unless that is the deal which is struck before setting and collecting camp dues. Certainly not required to bathe and feed the masses unless that is the intent of the camp. Oh, now and then one of your camp mates will let their playa buddy in for a meal, but how that is dealt with is between camp mates. Just set clear guidelines about acceptable scenarios.

Gifting food requires a health permit, and generally, people are good about waiting their turn and saying please and thank you.

You can close a theme camp at certain hours of your choosing. Sure, there's some folks who are oblivious, but not hoardes.

The horror stories and some of the stories that others find funny and just burning different have really made me leery and wary.

But with 50,000 people at the event, if even 01% were to be trouble makers or those who seek to do what they want no matter what that is still a large number.

When looking at the great satellite mapping pictures of the events...wow...the whole of it all is just enormous. I suspect with some good planning one could avoid serious grief just by picking the best location for a particular mission statement.

I have much to do.

The good news is that I have a contact that has signed on that has gone every year...a grand old shaman (literally) and great guy. His input will be beyond measure. With what I could learn and experience in one trip compared to his vast base is parsecs apart in value.

By the way I just secured access to a really neat tool for my project

This will clear up several of the issues and would add a fun aspect that is safe and crazy at the same time!

That and I can get several of them. Wooo hooo!

This makes my slide so much easier to manage knowing that I can contain the slider; there were issues of access and flow where a chaotic type could stop themselves and then try to climb back up, crawl up the supports, etc.

The balls take this weight off my shoulders

I will look into making at least one of the balls into an airchair, with extra pillows and supports so that an average wheelchair bound person (which is saying a lot as I suspect the average wheel chair bound person would most likely not be a burner) could move from one chair to another...thus offering the most security for the health aspect while still allowing for a full experience...hopefully I will be able to secure the right insurance, just in case.

I have a 2million policy for my work already so I am thinking it will not be that big of a deal...especially with a waiver and video documentation.

I am enjoying the process so far and this is only a couple days into the project...good stuff.

Ditto, go to Burning Man at least once before taking on a large project, or hook up with a group with prior experience. Talk to people who've done similar projects, and find out about regional groups. Get to know what the requirements are for theme camps and large structures at the event.

That said, nothing is too big and/or tacky for Burning Man.

Last edited by Bob on Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think AntiM and Trilobyte have accurately summed up the Catch-22 that you will have to overcome:

1. You can't camp forward of the Esplanade2. Your assigned space is based on the numberof campers - and as you get closer to Esplanade I think the required cmaper/sq ft ratio goes up. In other words, you will be assighned a space that is big enough to camp and place some art, but not much bigger.3. If you camp is an art piece - great! But how will people walk through it and interact with it unless you clean out most of your personal gear every morning (if it's "daytime" art) or evening (if it's "nighttime" art) and move it somewhere else.

My recommendation:

You could absolutely do this if you DONT register as a theme camp, show up early (but AFTER gates open since you won't get early-arrival passes) and grab one of the many non-reserved campinging areas. Camper density rules don't apply there and neighbors are unlikely to complain if you are actually using (not just hoarding) the land. One part could be your beautiful structure and another part could be your storage area for "public time".

After watching the whole week, day and night...it is good to be retired...I am missing my linkup at night...chatting with new friends...but I learned many useful things.

Looking forward to moving forward.

As far as the large art installation and the camp...I have much to consider.

Some of the issues on the list...

access...24/7 open or restricted and able to establish some measure of security...the latter I suspect is an invitation for failure and disappointment

climbing...making the piece climbable seems to be an issue worth considering, because it seems those damn dirty apes will climb it anyway...so fragile is right out if I want it to survive through Tuesday

acceptance...it seems that as much as my conservative nature wants to control the issues surrounding the art installation, this is a lost cause...you can not watch it every minute, even if you watch it and guard it someone will still do what they want to..etc. so just design the piece with a hurricane in mind...build it to survive high winds and all should be fine