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I can tell you that my CD4 has been around 800 for a year. Last summer, I started having really bad panic attacks. In was at this same time that I got into a huge fight with a family member over gay marriage. Her self-rightous answer consumed me for a few weeks. I just couldn't let it go and kept thinking of how I would tell her off. It just pissed me off so bad. I felt like if she was going to use the Bible on gay marriage, then she should live the Bible totally. You know, not wearing clothes made of more than one material, working on Sundays, eating shell fish, and all the other crazy stuff. I'll leave that for another time.

During this time, I did bloodwork. My CD4 had dropped down to 537. I had been having high blood pressure and fast pulse--around 100. They put me on a beta-blocker called Atenolol. My blood pressure has been like 108/68 with pulse of 68. My CD4 bounced back to 800.

So, I can't say for sure that the stress caused that drop. It does seem like the culprit, however.

Hey, you know all of the stress you queens get from your diagnosis that first year. Well, I had that for two years, and it was of a magnitude at least five times as stressful as the AIDS diagnosis I had (mind you, not just a mere HIV diagnosis) and yet voila my cd4s kept going up that entire time.

My Doctor told me that my numbers are low because I am too stressed, not sure if this is 100% accurate but I think it contributes

yes. it can contribute; but you also can't get into the mindset that every time you're upset or stressed out, that your numbers are going to go to hell in a handbasket either. I has some of the most stable numbers though 2008-2009 that I've had in the whole 17 yrs that I've lived with AIDS.

Finally after all those years and meds, I went a whole year and a half with a stable undetectable VL (no blips at all), and a good average (for me) t-cell count of 265. During that time, my partner suddenly became sick, was hospitalized for 2 months, and then he passed away. I lost the car and the home I was living in! I didn't eat properly for 4 months. I didn't get much sleep at all for 60 days in the hospital or the 9 days at home afterwards while I cared for and tended him before he died. Although I had quit smoking, I started back when he went into the hospital and went up to 3 packs a day within the first week. I took my meds so half-assed I was just certain I'd end up with resistance issues again and have a viral load off the charts.

Instead I had some of the best numbers of my life while under the biggest stress of my life. Go figure. Every blood test was a nerve-racking 2 wk wait, just certain of the horrible news to come on top of the horrible news I was living through. Obviously, my body knew along with my mind, that I was in a time that I had terrible duties to perform and terrible decisions to make, and it called up it's reserves to give me the strength to get through a terrible crisis.

Of course, looking back now, I'm very glad that in the middle of my life going to hell, I was only needlessly worrying about tcells and VLs that never wavered. That's why I can spout off with such conviction that it's all about the trend of your numbers and no single test result should ever freak you out too much. It also showed me too, that although stress can be a factor, it isn't always a factor.

There are two types of stress, one good -one bad. People handle stress differently and thus stress can sometimes be very beneficial for the body. It depends on how one looks at the problem their facing and whether or not one believes they can overcome the hurdle without panic. It's how one reacts that count. Thus , some will do fine under stress while others won't,really no big surprize . See:

By the way, an example of stress (and I totally agree with veritas' point of there being good and bad stress) that is bad is not having a good support structure in real life and the previous thread about disclosing to one's family. Maintaining a huge secret in life is a HUGE stress, and I compare it to the stress a closeted gay person undergoes. I got a lot of flack for that but I still believe that's the case after two decades of witnessing it a lot in various real life support groups. Another huge "bad stress" example is being in a relationship that has deteriorated just because you don't wish to be single.

Run of the mill stress in the work place isn't always "bad" -- it can be depending on the details, but generally it's probably not. Perhaps it would be useful for the OP wow1969 to go into some detail about what he is referencing here. It's hard to discuss this subject otherwise.

At my latest meeting with my ID doctor, I expressed the opinion that stress was the cause of my CD4 count being at its lowest point in 20 plus years.(Not on meds). He rolled his eyes and said: " There is no definitive proof that stress has anything to do with your CD4 count". Oh well. Maybe its just a nice way of finding a cause, or maybe its really a cause of CD4 fluctuation. Who knows.

Absolutely. In general, the people I know with hiv who are healthy and thriving - both body and mind - are those who are out and open about their status. The people I know who are closeted about their status are generally more prone to feeling ill and suffer with depression and anxiety issues. The deeper they are in the closet, the more unwell they tend to be. That's just my personal observation.

We need to remember that "bad" stress affects the whole body. It will make hiv negative people ill as well. It's not necessarily the effect on our numbers specifically that is problematic, but rather its effect on our bodies and minds as a whole unit.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Hey, you know all of the stress you queens get from your diagnosis that first year.

Sometimes its shocking to me how people who are supposed to be in the same boat can be so offensive to others...well this is not the first time I read such an angry response but I always wonder why do people have such an attitude, maybe they think its sarcastic or funny but actually its not at all...on the same level if this was someone critisizing the Pharmas he would have been alerted immediately by the admins on this website

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I have to admit : the good thing is that from now on; I have no option but to succeed , still its ok to worry

I agree that extreme stress can have devastating effects but would a temporary increase in stress cause numbers to decrease immediately, this is the question, in my case my numbers are declining and the first explanation the doctor had is stress...I admit that I am so stressed but still its not the stress that makes people not eat and not function

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I have to admit : the good thing is that from now on; I have no option but to succeed , still its ok to worry

"In this review, we will examinethe evidence that depression, trauma, and stressful life eventsare associated with decrements in HIV disease markers, bothbefore and after the advent of HAART"

So true that stress is associated with decrements in HIV disease markers. Worry only hurts ( both the healthy and diseased ) . If one is able to, problems should be faced logically ---- recognize the problem, define within one's content, take action -search for a solution, get help if needed, but try to stay calm. Sometimes this is easier said then done. However, if one begins with small troubles, it becomes routine.

Sometimes its shocking to me how people who are supposed to be in the same boat can be so offensive to others...well this is not the first time I read such an angry response but I always wonder why do people have such an attitude, maybe they think its sarcastic or funny but actually its not at all...on the same level if this was someone critisizing the Pharmas he would have been alerted immediately by the admins on this website

Maybe you should take a break from the internet or something, because I don't know what you're talking about. I was stressed out my first year of diagnosis too, just like every other person on here. I only offered the comment as a comparison to an even more stressful period of my life in more recent years. Jebus, touchy a bit?

But hey, keep making stuff up that I"m saying and quoting things I have written out of context if it cheers you up. It won't stress me out.

Regarding what Ann said about people who are out about their HIV status and being less stressed-- I've wondered a lot about this. I know it is a big job to keep things secret, especially with family. It becomes difficult to keep doctor appointments secret. I worry if I got sick, who would find out. I know I needed a family member to stop by my house to let my dogs out, but I didn't want them in my house because I wasn't sure whether I had all HIV medical papers and books locked away.

So, I often think it would be easier to just come out totally. How far do you need to come out to get that stress off ya? Just to family? Family and friends? Certain family and friends? I can't see the benefit of letting neighbors and co-workers know. I often think letting certain family and friends know would just cause more stress. Some would worry too much and the others would be afraid they could catch it somehow. But then I think we should treat it like cancer. Most of us wouldn't keep cancer a secret.

I just know I have to lie a lot. Lie about why I had a doctor appt. Lie when I forgot to take the band-aid off my arm after bloodwork. Lie when I don't feel very good and they wonder why. I even had friends wonder why I got the H1N1 vaccine--even though it is recommended for everyone. They just wondered why a "healthy" young person would have waited in line for the vaccine. I had posted about 3 things on Facebook about HIVers getting knocked off insurance and things like that. I had friends wondering why I was posting so many things about HIV--even though it was only 3 things.

At my latest meeting with my ID doctor, I expressed the opinion that stress was the cause of my CD4 count being at its lowest point in 20 plus years.(Not on meds). He rolled his eyes and said: " There is no definitive proof that stress has anything to do with your CD4 count". Oh well. Who knows.

My CD4 count improved consistently (middle of 7 year period off meds), while going thru prolonged most stressful period of my life. I agree with your MD's scepticism. If I am wrong, then popular wisdom is right. But if I am right, we have one less thing to worry about (stressing about STRESSING. lol).

There are two types of stress, one good -one bad. People handle stress differently and thus stress can sometimes be very beneficial for the body. It depends on how one looks at the problem their facing and whether or not one believes they can overcome the hurdle without panic. It's how one reacts that count. Thus , some will do fine under stress while others won't,really no big surprize . See:

V may be on to something here. Maybe when we speak of "stressing" we are really describing levels of panic, not the severity of current life challenges we face.

If stress causes a person to NOT "take care of business" (such as taking meds on time), or even harm themselves, thru abuse of drugs/food/drink/ignoring bills, etc, then it would not be surprising if an indirect causal relationship exists. When I as highly stressed I withdrew socially a bit, but I continued to eat right, exercise, keep MD appointments, and even did some creative projects by choice. I wasn't happy or even content, but my typical daily positive behaviors did not change. And my health (CD4) consistently improved during a bad personal period.

V may be on to something here. Maybe when we speak of "stressing" we are really describing levels of panic, not the severity of current life challenges we face.

When I as highly stressed I withdrew socially a bit, but I continued to eat right, exercise, keep MD appointments, and even did some creative projects by choice. I wasn't happy or even content, but my typical daily positive behaviors did not change. And my health (CD4) consistently improved during a bad personal period.

completely opposite of your situation , all of my behavior patterns changed dramatically for the worst (I sure wouldn't say that I even kept my "positive attitude towards life") during my period of extreme stress (high panic levels and severe life challenges) during the time period surrounding my partner's illness and death, and yet I had my best period of health to date. Go figure. LOL

''..you queens''?This sort of language isn't helpful. Many gay men don't identify themselves as a 'queen', and is often the sort of language used in a derogatory way by homophobic straight people, along with words like 'faggot'.Also, your comment perpetuates the idea that only gay men are affected by HIV, which we all know is not the case.

buffaloboy (& azprince),

the test of whether a remark is derogatory or angry considers the entire context, including the nancy boy making the remark(s). our beloved miss p. wasn't angry or derogatory with his remark. he throws "queen" around like others use "dude" ad nauseam. even uber-masculine, straight acting homosexuals such as myself take no offense. he would be among the first to read the riot act to anyone stupid enough to label AIDS a gay disease. as relative newcomers to the flora and fauna and fora and forums (and lions, tigers, and boors, oh my) i hope you'll give miss thing the the benefit of the doubt. he is wise beyond his years.

as for stress it can affect each of us differently -- some thrive on stress that would kill others and vice versa. in general there is "bad stress" (relationship problems, job problems, overwork, etc.) and "good stress" (climbing mt. rushmore up to roosevelt's nose, rad ski boarding, sky diving, etc.). too much of any kind of stress can result in health problems and such. ignore the body's need for nourishment and recuperative rest at your peril.

in 1991 i was off work for 6 weeks recovering from a bicycle accident. my CD4 count went over 700 in that time but quickly dropped back to the 500 range when i returned to work. when i lost my job in january, 2002 my count dove but i had picked up chronic hep B (not realizing it was chronic) so the drop would probably have occurred anyway.

cheers!

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

thank you to all of you who chimed in ... I also have had my dr. tell me that stress does not affect my numbers but i find that hard to believe ... my work is very stressful adn there are some other stressors in my life which i believe are not good for my overall health and specifically my hiv health ... i know deep in my gut that stress makes hiv worse but the literature on this disease is freaking confusing and badly organiized ... so thank you again

miss philicia ... i am NOT a queen ... i would never be anything that common .. i'm a goddess LOL ....

Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Hey, you know all of the stress you queens get from your diagnosis that first year. Well, I had that for two years, and it was of a magnitude at least five times as stressful as the AIDS diagnosis I had (mind you, not just a mere HIV diagnosis) and yet voila my cd4s kept going up that entire time.

Someone care to explain that one?

That pact you made with Mephistopheles?

The moldy, decrepit picture in your attic?

Your frontal, parietal, occipital, and temporal lobotomies?

Your extended stay at the Tarantula Arms?

Your biennial visits to Disneyvolkenfrugenlandes?

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

I really think a lot of it has to do with how we react to stress. I'm not saying that extreme situations don't effect our health. I know I've gotten physically ill in years past because of situations that I had no control over, and that seemed to be deteriorating. One of the things that helps me is to talk to someone, usually a good friend, about things that are going on. That way I can get some suggestions, and maybe empahty.

And I'm totally open about my status. I don't like keeping secrets from the people who matter most in my life. And once I get things out in the open, I don't have that "tore up stomach feeling" from having to think of 100 excuses to give to them. I believe, like Ann does, that if we keep hidden, we bring more stigma on ourselves. And usually when I disclose to a person, they don't react negatively. Especially if they know me as a person. That way they have more to base their reaction on than just thinking about "someone with Aids."

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

I tend to agree with BT65. When bad things happen I do what I can to fix them, I don't worry about what might happen as a result of them (because I can't control what might happen, alll I can do is work to prevent it). I've actually wondered my whole adult life about people who are "worriers". Do what you can to stop bad things from happening. When they do happen do what you can to fix them. What use does stressing out do anyone?

I tend to agree with BT65. When bad things happen I do what I can to fix them, I don't worry about what might happen as a result of them (because I can't control what might happen, alll I can do is work to prevent it). I've actually wondered my whole adult life about people who are "worriers". Do what you can to stop bad things from happening. When they do happen do what you can to fix them. What use does stressing out do anyone?

I think disagree in part with what you are saying ... If you know you get stressed by something and know it will create a negative response in your life then it makes sense to me to do what you can to avoid that situation .. but when the situation comes up, it's natural to worry about it, especially if you know it will affect you in a bad way ... I think you can control outcomes, at least to a degree ....

However... I was wondering in this thread how stress affects people since I keep gettign told that stress doesn't affect HIV and I don't buy that ...

Also, thanks to EVERYONE who has taken the time to respond ... seriously, it has helped already ... at least i know i'm not imagining things ... now I can worry LOL

Cool but did you notice what they considered stress management? I ddin't see what they did for stress management.

you had to follow the link button to the far right of that study title that said "FULL TEXT"

Quote

The participants randomly assigned to cognitive behavior stress management attended 10 weekly 135-minute sessions (45-minute relaxation component and 90-minute stress management component) and were instructed to practice relaxation exercises twice daily between sessions. The relaxation component included progressive muscle relaxation, autogenics, meditation, and breathing exercises (7). The stress management component included cognitive restructuring, coping skills training, assertiveness training, anger management, and strategies for using social supports. The participants in the control condition completed a 10-week waiting period and underwent assessments identical to those received by the participants assigned to cognitive behavior stress management (and at equivalent time points). After the week 10 assessment, the control subjects were offered a 1-day stress management workshop summarizing the concepts presented in the cognitive behavior stress management sessions.

DepressionAn example of how cognitive restructuring can be used in treating clinical depression is to find a statement that describes the cause of the depression, such as "I lost my job today." and to turn this into a positive affirmation "but hopefully I will find a new job." Some refer to this general technique as ďreframingĒ or ďframe-breaking ď. ... For example, if being at a party where everybody is laughing and dancing causes depression, cognitive therapy investigates the thought process that is triggered by the external stimuli. A statement about the stimuli explaining the trigger is: "I do not know how to dance, I will never be as happy as those people." and a restructuring statement is: "I want to learn how to dance." This is a way of changing a belief from a negative to a positive one. ... The key to changing behavior is changing the cognitive structure from passive to active and creating behaviors by first changing the mind.

in another words, a therapist probably explained how you have to change your mindset about your problems. Sorta the old "when life hands you lemons, make lemonade." I know it may sound dumb but it does work. There's no magic bullet with "cognitive restructing" just good old-fashioned "thinking positive". Sometimes you have to reframe the issue out of a negative and make it a positive goal you can work toward, and sometimes you have do the actions without thinking the negative thought about those actions.

In another thread where we have been discussing how to handle losing a partner with someone who recently lost their partner, we talked about "faking it until you make it". Sometimes you have to do the hard work of going through the motions until you get through the rough spot. Though you may be desperately grieving the loss of your partner, you force yourself to go to work everyday, to smile and say hello, and to act as if the world hasn't been dramatically changed. Eventually, sometime down the line, you will realize that you're not faking the smiles, you are happy to see other people, and the world really is still going on the way it always has.

I often tell people this advice: There's only one thing that you can't fix and that's death. Everything else, no matter how bad, can be fixed, or at least made better; but it's going to take hard work and patience. Boy! Those are such easy words for such difficult actions though. Sometimes you'll have to work your ass right off to get things to improve and sometimes it'll take the patience of Job while you wait for your actions to make that improvement.

In the same way the hard work of this "cognitive restructuring" is the person facing up to the reality of what is and deciding that they want to get off their butt and make it different. Few if any changes will come over night, that's where the patience comes into play; but eventually putting the positive spin onto things will enable you to actually tackle your problems and find a solution. The alternate is to keep wallowing in sorrow and pity, giving your problems the power to drag you further and further down.

If I had not taken a positive proactive stance against my problems and the stress, I would have never made it through a house fire, 3 burglaries, losing 7 dogs, burying two partners, being on death's door in the hospital twice, having 14 people wreck into my cars totaling them, going through the side effects of nearly a dozen different HIV meds, etc .... I swear my list seems endless sometimes. LOL If I had let the stress of those situations have the power over my life, I would have given up and dropped dead years ago.

So although I do believe that stress negatively empowers the HIV in my and knocks my tcells down once in a while, I also believe with hard work and patience I can conquer everything except death, and that kind of attitude in the long run makes me happier and healthier no matter what the stress does to me.

Hey, you know all of the stress you queens get from your diagnosis that first year. Well, I had that for two years, and it was of a magnitude at least five times as stressful as the AIDS diagnosis I had (mind you, not just a mere HIV diagnosis) and yet voila my cd4s kept going up that entire time.

Someone care to explain that one?

Who the hell you calling a queen? I resent that. I am gay but very masculine and in no way a queen. I find your posts tend to seem a bit high and mighty./

Who the hell you calling a queen? I resent that. I am gay but very masculine and in no way a queen. I find your posts tend to seem a bit high and mighty./

Do you realize that this thread is over a year old? Most of us tend to comment on threads more recently posted, as in like the past week or so. You reviving old threads is poor forum etiquette. There is a reason for old threads, as they are no longer relevant and should stay that way.

Who the hell you calling a queen? I resent that. I am gay but very masculine and in no way a queen. I find your posts tend to seem a bit high and mighty./

BJ,

In the past few weeks, you've dredged up at least eight old threads - and as you can gauge from the reactions you've gotten, it's not good forum etiquette and it annoys the hell out of most people.

Not only that, but you've also used these old threads to flame-bait. You've been warned about this twice already by David Evans. You're not being warned this time - I'm giving you a seven day Time Out. You've been warned enough.

Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

hey thanx for the link that is very interesting information and has useful stuff in it

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Until the rainbow burns the stars out of the skyUntil the ocean covers every mountain highUntil the day that eight times eight times eight is fourUntil the day that it's the day that I'm no more Did you know that true love asks for nothingTheir acceptance is the way we payDid you know that life has given love a guarenteeThat last through foreverAnother day

Hello, I think I can tell you of a little episode that illustrates the effects of stress fairly well.

My last attempt at a relationship was with a man that I had no idea had actually been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, an extremely nasty little buggy boo that shows up most violently during a breakup. If you break up with them, you are not only wrong, you are the enemy. This man not only emptied my accounts and stole my art collection, he did his best to ruin my reputation in the humanitarian community. Things eventually became so bad that I was sleeping in my hallway, away from windows.

With no change in medications, my t-cells plummeted, I got huge red running welts all over my body and I lost most of my hair, all within the period of about a month.

Now, there is no way I am going to share anything so dark without offering a way to find the light. I want you to remember that the only non renewable resource is time. Therefore, if I am walking down the street and someone yells "faggot" and throws a bottle, they have stolen a few seconds of my life. If I am still worked up about them ten minutes later I am giving them the gift of my time. They don't deserve such gifts. Happiness is a CHOICE, it is not something one finds, it is something you choose and then BE. It is YOUR happy my friend, don't let any power have it. I say this as a man who has no idea of how he will pay his bills this month, so I search for answers but don't stress out