As of now we are currently waiting for GoT season 4/SoS part 2, and waiting hopefully not forever for ASoIaF book VI: The Winds of Winter. Discuss!

I know there is a couple people reading the books at various points. I'm currently reading the combined version of Feast and Dance. I was following along with an online discussion group, but I've surpassed them and put it on hold until it catches up. I don't really have a lot to say about that.

My version is the one that swaps The Princess in the Tower chapter to avoid the minor spoiler. I think it works fine and that chapter is pretty insignificant anyway, other than to hear Doran Martell say "blood and fire!". One of my top three favorite quotes in the book.

The other being Davos plea, "What does Stannis have to offer you?...Vengeance!" and you can guess the third.

I think that brings up one of the most interesting and crucial themes of the series: revenge. People say this series never lets the "good guys win". I would argue that most people get what they deserve, or at least reap what they sow. Justice in this series often times doesn't feel so because it falls on all people equally without favor. In that sense it's a more true form of justice than we often find in the real world. With that in mind, that is how revenge plays out: when it happens it's almost never the result of one person directly to the other that wronged them._________________The spirit can die when the force that's crushing it is great enough. By raining bullets down on the silent faces, already turned away from the world, you thought you could destroy the face of our truth. But we have faith in a different force. That hopeless hope is what sustains us now. My comrades are more numerous than your bullets, and more patient than your executioners.

Re: Game of Thrones/ A Song of Ice and Fire

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:12 am

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GrandMasterMaster

Joined: 26 Aug 2011Posts: 628Location: Earth Jedi Temple

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:

or at least reap what they sow.

Except for the Greyjoys - they do not sow.

*rimshot, crickets chirping* Ok, I'll show myself out.

But, in all seriousness, I am definitely one of those people who says the series never lets the good guys win. This was a big problem for me until a certain wedding in ASoS (the second wedding), and it was a problem because none of the "bad guys" ever seemed to get punished (again, until that wedding). I'm fine with the good guys not winning, however, the bad guys need to lose sometimes too, and lose big. By the end of ASoS, I was pretty sure none of the "bad guys" were going to get a perfect happy ending.

How do people feel about the various point-of-view characters? I found that some characters just bored me, but when I thought about it, it was because
A) They weren't doing anything,
B) they were just traveling for 1000 pages (especially in ASoS - Jaime, Dany, Bran, Arya),
or C) the character had no agency (that is, things were always happening to them, but they weren't doing anything themselves). Bran and Sansa fell into this category, and as a result I came to hate them as characters (I've come around on Sansa, but Bran is still boring me).

Also, how do we want to do spoilers? I've got about 200 pages of ADoD left, but I know some people are just starting. Do we want to do spoiler code, or vaguely worded hints?_________________"But it was so artistically done."

“No. I am Ganner. This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don’t give a damn. None shall pass.”

"Shaken, not stirred, will get you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth. The reason you stir it with a special spoon is so not to chip the ice. James is ordering a weak martini and being snooty about it."

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:27 pm

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1481Location: Soul of Cinder

I really liked Bran's chapters in Clash and Storm, mostly because of the Reed's, who are awesome. He bored me too in Dance, tho. Sansa was only boring in GOT, and she actually only has like two or three chapters in Feast and Dance, which are kinda annoying, but short.

I never found Brienne boring, nor Dorne, love it. Ironborn are not boring, just terrible, except Asha. I didn't have a problem the first time, but on the reread of 4/5 I was bored to death with Arya and Sam's chapters, other than when he parties with the summer islanders, probably his best chapter._________________The spirit can die when the force that's crushing it is great enough. By raining bullets down on the silent faces, already turned away from the world, you thought you could destroy the face of our truth. But we have faith in a different force. That hopeless hope is what sustains us now. My comrades are more numerous than your bullets, and more patient than your executioners.

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:41 am

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Alan Skywalker VMaster

Joined: 10 Apr 2011Posts: 632

Speaking of The Winds of Winter, does anyone think Martin will get it out before the show starts to catch up? I think he could, depending on how the showriters and directors plan for FFC/DWD.

My thoughts on the issue from another discussion board are posted below, in reply to a poster who expects the show might start going off on its own after Feast and Dance since he doesn't expect Martin will have Winter out by that point:

Martin's still got about 2 years to get WOW out before the show starts catching up, so I wouldn't hedge my bets just yet.

SOS Part II (Season 4) this spring. Probably some combo of FFC/DWD (Season 5) in Spring 2015, unless they decide to stretch both books over 2 seasons, in which case that would go through 2016 and give Martin an extra year to write.

It's been 2 1/2 years already since DWD. I would guess that Martin wouldn't take any longer for WOW than he did with Crows or Dance. We could see WOW by the end of next year, perhaps. I think it's the show creators who should exercise some caution when considering how to do Crows and Dance. If they lump both together in Spring '15 and then decide to start going their own way only to have Martin end up releasing Winter between Spring '15 and Spring '16, they'll be stuck.

On the other hand, if they spread Crows and Dance out over 2 seasons, then there is probably a very good chance that Martin will have WOW out in time for them to start working on it for TV for the Spring '17 season.

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:23 pm

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1481Location: Soul of Cinder

I believe that TWOW is almost or entirely finished and it will be released after next season, or one more at the latest. DWD was released right before season 2 of the show started, which was the rise of the series popularity. That's no coincidence and it was probably part of the deal to get the show made. In other words DWD was probably already finished or on it's way before season one aired. That is what makes me think that will be the situation with TWOW.

Anyone watch season four trailer? Season four and further book spoilers ahead.

Notice that they subtlety drop two big spoilers there.

Everyone hates Jaime's hair. I don't need to go on.

I hate that the joust scene with Strong Belwas is going to be shown. Why leave in his pivotal scene if they are going to cut his character? Looks like he's going to be replaced with Dbag Daario. Terrible.

There is a scene with The Mountain, but since they replaced the actor, it might not spoiler viewers because they won't know who he is. haha

It starts with a shadow of a dragon flying over King's Landing.

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Nice tease there HBO.

Dany says, "They can join me in my new world, or die in their old one."

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Sort of a tease, but people who allready know what happens think this means she is going to sack Mereen and kill the slavers. Which makes no sense since they know that doesn't happen. That is clearly just her telling Jorah that she is going to stay in Mereen instead of go to Westeros and he urges her.

Rast is shown putting a baby in the snow.

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That's because he's at Craster's with the mutineers and he knows Crasters sacrifice holds back the Others. But what if that brings in Coldhands? In the book he kills the mutineers off page.

Theon is shown in armor

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looking very unReek. Could this be when he goes to Moat Cailin, or something else since that doesn't happen till book five?

Do you think that they are going to bump up all the book four and five Iron Islander stuff this season?_________________The spirit can die when the force that's crushing it is great enough. By raining bullets down on the silent faces, already turned away from the world, you thought you could destroy the face of our truth. But we have faith in a different force. That hopeless hope is what sustains us now. My comrades are more numerous than your bullets, and more patient than your executioners.

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:26 pm

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Alan Skywalker VMaster

Joined: 10 Apr 2011Posts: 632

One quarter of the way through A Game of Thrones;

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I'm at the end of the chapter where Ned and Catelyn meet in King's Landing.

Prince Joffrey is truly a royal a**. Don't much care for his mother, either. I'm curious to know if Arya's direwolf ever turns back up. Guess I'll have to read to find out.

So Bran is alive, but crippled, and seems to have no memory of the events before the fall, yet the Lannisters still send an assassin to kill him? Yikes.

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:39 pm

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1481Location: Soul of Cinder

Yes, Joff is truly his mother's son.

Ned gets some good advice in King's landing.

About Bran's dagger...things are about to get very interesting._________________The spirit can die when the force that's crushing it is great enough. By raining bullets down on the silent faces, already turned away from the world, you thought you could destroy the face of our truth. But we have faith in a different force. That hopeless hope is what sustains us now. My comrades are more numerous than your bullets, and more patient than your executioners.

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:15 am

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Alan Skywalker VMaster

Joined: 10 Apr 2011Posts: 632

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:

Yes, Joff is truly his mother's son.

Ned gets some good advice in King's landing.

About Bran's dagger...things are about to get very interesting.

And you're right. The plot thickens.

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So Jon Arryn was murdered, Ned has uncovered one of the King's bastards, and Tyrion Lannister is Catelyn Stark's prisoner. Varys and Littlefinger don't seem trustworthy to me; I think they have ulterior motives.

Why is Robert Arryn so sickly? That I don't understand. Does it have something to do with Lysa's previous miscarriages?

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:55 pm

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GrandMasterMaster

Joined: 26 Aug 2011Posts: 628Location: Earth Jedi Temple

Alan Skywalker V wrote:

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Why is Robert Arryn so sickly? That I don't understand. Does it have something to do with Lysa's previous miscarriages?

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I think it's a combination of the miscarriages and Jon Arryn's age, and maybe there's something wrong with Lysa.

_________________"But it was so artistically done."

“No. I am Ganner. This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don’t give a damn. None shall pass.”

"Shaken, not stirred, will get you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth. The reason you stir it with a special spoon is so not to chip the ice. James is ordering a weak martini and being snooty about it."

Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:08 am

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1481Location: Soul of Cinder

There's no specific reason given in the narrative. Robert Aryn has epilepsy, and like Tyrion Lannister who appears to have achondroplesia, is a pretty common real world genetic disorder. Epilepsy can also be caused by brain trauma and damage sustained during pregnancy, in particular from excessive alcohol consumption, which is a possibility with Lysa. Other common real world ailments that are present in Westeros are Gout and viral and bacterial infections._________________The spirit can die when the force that's crushing it is great enough. By raining bullets down on the silent faces, already turned away from the world, you thought you could destroy the face of our truth. But we have faith in a different force. That hopeless hope is what sustains us now. My comrades are more numerous than your bullets, and more patient than your executioners.

A question for my fellow fans, who's your favorite character in the series? There are plenty of people to hate, but far fewer to like. I adored Tyrion and Dany all the way up to A Dance with Dragons. Now I find myself slightly annoyed with Tyrion (though I'll get over it). Frankly, I'm disgusted with Dany.

I am also indifferent to Jon Snow. I've gotten to the point where I no longer care about Arya (not that I cared much about her to begin with), for two reasons: 1) she's the cliched "young girl who doesn't want to follow society's expectations for her," and 2) she has been separate from the other characters since the end of ASoS. Her story feels like it belongs in a book of its own. I didn't like Dany too much in ASoS, but I liked her more in ADoD.

Favorite character? I don't think I have one for the entire series. For A Game of Thrones, it was Eddard. I guess Tyrion for A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords. And Cersei and Sansa for A Feast for Crows, and then maybe Tyrion again for A Dance with Dragons. Whichever character is involved in the political stuff and court intrigue are the ones I like. And I love any scene with Varys and Littlefinger together on the TV show. But I wouldn't necessarily say that I like any of them - I enjoy the characters, but I don't like them like I do, say, Ben Skywalker or one of the Solo kids._________________"But it was so artistically done."

“No. I am Ganner. This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don’t give a damn. None shall pass.”

"Shaken, not stirred, will get you cold water with a dash of gin and dry vermouth. The reason you stir it with a special spoon is so not to chip the ice. James is ordering a weak martini and being snooty about it."

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 am

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Alan Skywalker VMaster

Joined: 10 Apr 2011Posts: 632

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I'm up to the end of Jon VII now. Was not surprised that Alliser Thorne mocked both Jon and Eddard, but was surprised that Jon attacked him. the fight with the White Walker gave me the creeps, though I should have expected it from the Prologue.

Too bad Cersei didn't take up Ned's offer to leave King's Landing. She's just too drunk with power. I saw Littlefinger's betrayal of Ned coming a mile away. Joffrey is still an a**, but somehow I have the feeling he's only going to get even worse ...

It will probably take me another week and a half to finish AGOT. Truth is, I want so badly to read all five as quickly as I can.

But with my volunteering, house chores, and family get togethers, as well as several other book series that I'm in the middle of reading and a TV show I'm watching, it's better for me to pace myself on ASOIAF than to rush. I hope to have AGOT finished by next Friday and then start ACOK Saturday.

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:17 pm

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Alan Skywalker VMaster

Joined: 10 Apr 2011Posts: 632

A comment made by author Robin Hobbs and subsequent rebuttals by Martin's UK editor have some sections of the fandom in an uproar.

Apparently Hobbs wrote that WOW was going to come out in July this year, before her next book. Some posters on Westeros.org started working themselves into a tizzy, but others pointed out that it was a joking comment because Hobbs added, "I am just sure that everyone will have spent their pocket money on George's book and will have nothing left to buy mine . . . ."

Long story short, I get the feeling that more and more fans are going to become disillusioned with Martin and furious that the show will pass the books. And some will probably stay in denial for a while. It's going to get messy.