Heartening news from Sir Carmack, lord of pixels: preliminary id design discussion about the next Quake game has turned up a hankering to return to the Gothic, semi-fantasy setting and vibe of the original Quake. I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty damned bored of bio-mechanical environs and beasts after id Tech 4’s quad-whammy of Doom 3, Quake IV, Prey and Quake Wars, so something potentially a little weirder rather takes my fancy.
Said first person shooting’s papa bear to Eurogamer, “We are at least tossing around the possibilities of going back to the bizarre, mixed up Cthulhu-ish Quake 1 world and rebooting that direction. We think that would be a more interesting direction than doing more Strogg stuff after Quake 4… But we could do something pretty grand like that, that still tweaks the memory right in all of those ways, but is actually cohesive and plays with all of the strengths of the level we’re at right now.”

This isn’t, of course, a confirmation that new Quake is actually happening, but it’s pretty clear talk that id are up for doing it. I know, I know – ‘game developer in considering sequel to successful franchise shocker’ eh? But with Rage due in months and Doom 4 next on id’s plate, it wasn’t a given that a new Quake was in the offing.

Added id biz-boss Todd Hollenshead, “People shouldn’t worry that we’re ever going to orphan or abandon Quake. We are huge fans of the game internally.” What do you have an internal fandom for, readers?

See, Valve? THIS is how you treat the franchises that made you who you are today, by dropping little tidbits into the media to reassure people you still love it as much as we do. Or hell, at least mentioning it once in a while.

Good to see the boys want more Goth-Deth. Hopefully a reunion with NiN won’t be too far behind either…

Correct, Werthead. The level of quiet regarding Freeman’s next adventure, whatever form it eventually takes, is now at ludicrous proportions. Here, by way of a lovely contrast, we have id – not even making Q5 yet – telling us they’re talking and thinking about it. How romantic of them. Aww.

Quake 4 was a bit bland, wasn’t it, Zeroskill? Although I could have told them that would happen letting Raven, Masters of The Resolutely Average, handle the development. Oh and I don’t hate on Valve; they’re a genuinely innovative and forward-thinking company who are fun to have around. I just think more – some – ANY- information on their next Half-Life game is long overdue.

Ideally, and Valve have form here, they have been beavering away at Episode 3 for years nonstop and it’ll essentially be a 15-hour HALF-LIFE 3, will be amazing, will come out six months after they announce it (I’ll take eighteen though), and everyone will be happy and shower them with praise. And maybe cake.

Why the internet picked on Duke Nukem Forever and not Elite IV for all those years baffles me to this day. Elite fans have been waiting for longer. And we don’t have Gearbox-analogs to come along and save the day, either.

The amount of entitlement-issues whining about Episode 3 really gets on my nerves.

As for Valve not talking about it in public, here’s an excerpt from the recent Podcast 17 interview with Gabe Newell:

So question number 1: It’s the feeling of the community that Valve has kept the next installment
of Half-Life a secret. The decision from a developers point of view is obvious, but what are you
feelings towards the franchise as a fan?

I’m sure they’ve got good reasons about why they’re not talking about it. Probably similar reasons as to why TF2 was listed in the vapourware halls of fame for years on end: it’s just not ready yet, and it’s not in a state where it makes sense to show it to the public.

One day, it’ll surface, it’ll come out, and it’ll be fantastic. You say you love the game, but if you want them to just push something out no matter if it’s fun or not just to hit an arbitrary deadline, you really don’t.

I see what you’re saying, and I largely agree. Still, hearing absolutely nothing and therefore having absolutely no idea how long we’ll have to wait is frustrating. It won’t matter in the long run if Ep3 turns out to be enormous and absolutely fantastic, but if it’s just of the same calibre as Ep2 it’ll be a disappointment after waiting this long.

Did you deliberately use the word ‘forever’ there? Part of the name of that other game that took ages to come out and was judged to be a bit messy when it finally did? And had an inordinate amount of hype generated by it’s lateness to deal with on top?

I take issue with the ‘entitlement’ accusation. Is it entitlement to ask for something, anything on a beloved series millions of people have become invested in? We’re not screeching for the game, let’s be clear, just some overt, non-vague sign that there is even a game to anticipate, that they’re going to perhaps finish the story they left on a bloody cliffhanger. It’s not entitlement, it’s frustration. id’s transparency on their own series feels like a blast of much needed fresh air.

It annoys me that people blather on about ‘entitlement’ or other such buzzwords.

The fact is, most gamers who enjoyed the Half Life series up to Episode 2 simply expected there to at least be word of a sequel within a reasonable amount of time. Imagine if Peter Jackson released the first two LotR films in 2001 and 2002, but didnt bother with the third until 2007? What if he didnt even announce the third film? Or what if a popular TV series spent a whole season building up to a grand finale that you were looking forward to, and then made you wait indefinately for it, with not so much of a hint of it ever appearing?

The fact is, Valve left Episode 2 on an undeniably huge cliffhanger, and proceeded to mention nothing about a sequel for what is now nearly FOUR YEARS. I was 14 when Half Life 2 came out, and now I’m nearly 22. Any hopes I’ve had for a final chapter, a last great resolution to the whole brilliant story, have been raised and then crushed more times than I care to remember. And yet, my desire for such a sequel has still endured.

So dont start rambling about how people are stupid to feel entitled to something. You cant take a story spanning nearly 13 years and (at least) 7 games, and simply leave it on a huge cliffhanger with no word whatsoever of a sequel. People expect another Half Life game. To thoughtlessly criticise them for that is completely unjustified.

Valve confirmed they still are working on a new installment of Half-life, yet they also said they are not and wont be ready to talk about it any time soon, plus the obvious Valve time addition. So yeah, even talking about it doesnt make any sense right now, and im ok with it that they take their time with the game. It also show that the next installment of Half-life wont be just a next episode, but more of a real next-generation installment with ground braking additions if they take that much time to make it. Also, you have to consider: A next installment of the series, other then it being just Episode 3 of Half-life 2, which at this point, we can all agree with that has been dropped (Gaben said himself they walked away from the “episode” model which is a clear hint that they are actively working on a major release for Half-life) , has to top everything Half-life 2 stands for, in respect to technical achievment, in respect to storyline, and im pretty sure they are looking into some sort of multiplayer/online features we dont know anything about yet. So be patient, it “hopefully” will be worth the wait. Most likely. Definatly.

For Quake 4 I dont have many words, but yeah, when I first played it and seen that Raven logo on my screen, a cold shiver went down my spine.

I’m actually one of those people who e-mailed Valve after Episode 2 released. Amongst a fair amount of constructive feedback on what I felt they got right and wrong with it, I also told them to keep things quiet with regards to Ep3 and spoilers.

David Speyrer actually sent me a response. Quite a nice chap, I was really surprised he took the time to read my e-mail and even answer my questions.

So yeah, you may be able to blame me for that. :)

To be honest, for a while now I didn’t originally hold out much hope for Valve being able to follow up Episode 2 with something amazing. But when I played through Portal 2, it really re-affirmed to me that Valve really know what they’re doing with characters and setting. So I’m willing to give them time on it to get it right.

And yes, continually bitching about how you “deserve” a sequel and how Valve betrayed you, I’ll happily lump that in under “entitlement”.

You really want to cry about your age and how much of your life you’ve been waiting? I was 15 when Half-Life 1 came out. And it was a five freaking year wait of silence between that and Half-Life 2, plus one extra year delay. Heck, it was ten years before we got a sequel to Team Fortress, and for almost all of them we knew pretty much nothing of what was happening to it.

Valve didn’t owe me jack all, any more than Looking Glass (System Shock > System Shock 2, five years of silence, then another EIGHT years to Bioshock), Ion Storm / Eidos (Deus Ex > Deus Ex: Human Revolution (yes I’m skipping DE2, what of it?)), Westwood (C&C1 to C&C2), or Blizzard (Starcraft > Starcraft 2, over TEN years of complete silence, then two more waiting).

Sometimes, it’s a wait (or it’s not coming at all. I’m never likely to see a sequel to Anachronox). Accept it. Bitching about how you’re owed an entertainment product, yeah, that’s entitlement. None of those companies owed me anything. But I was happy to buy what games they put out as long as they were awesome (which actually in the case of Tiberian Sun, was a huge letdown, but that’s another story).

Gabe Newell has said one concrete thing about Ep3, and it pretty much sums up why they’re keeping tight-lipped: He’s happy about the new direction the team is going in. (paraphrased)

That is the reason why Valve don’t give details anymore. Like Portal 2, and to a lesser extent Episode 2, if Valve tries to give you details on a game they’re bringing out next year, some of those details will be lies, because the details will be changed by the time of release. Entire story arcs and important characters get cut and others are added. Wait long enough and the art direction won’t even look remotely the same (TF2).

This is why Quake was so quirky. Many of the levels were designed for a version of the game that was almost completely different to the final game. None of the original characters, weapons, or storyline made it in. Many new elements, such as rocket jumping, were created/discovered as development went on. Many of the game mechanics, such as abstract armor points, deathmatch, and so on were revised versions of what was already in Doom, but the original plan was very different.

Yeah, the original plans for Quake were widely publicised (“how you treat a franchise”, you could say), but the product they were describing was MONUMENTALLY more ambitious, not to mention just plain different, compared anything that came out of id at the time, or ever since.

The original description of Quake and things like Quakeworld would actually be more akin to our modern-day MMO’s. I remember the vast amounts of information id put out for us to salivate over. Trading. Iterm persistence. Alliances and what you could call “guilds”.

And again with Tiberian Sun (probably the first game I got proper burned on by the hype). Remember the promises? Fully deformable voxel terrain! Advanced AI! Exceptional dynamic lighting systems! Incredible strategic possibilities! Oh how much was not made.

And I can guarantee you, no matter how small the feature, if it was cut, there would be effigies of Gabe Newell being burned by the angsty people over how he blatantly LIED, spread FILTHY LIES to us all.

Heck, I already saw similar with Portal 2 and the pneumatic diversity vents. They were cut for a reason. Obviously. But to hear tell, Valve actively lied to and betrayed people with “FALSE CLAIMS!1!” in order to grub more money off of them.

Then again, I saw that statement regarding everything to do with Portal 2 I suppose.

Yeah, Valve realise it is important not to announce something unless they are fairly certain what was announced will actually be delivered.

As for the delay of Episode 3, I’ve said it before, but Valve are a talented bunch, such talent is best not spent producing the same game over and over and over. Since Episode 2 released Valve managed three new games, Team Fortress 2, Portal, and Left 4 Dead. All three were wonderful games which had ideas that deserved to be expanded upon, not to mention flaws that needed to be addressed. And as of the release of Portal 2 this year all three have recieved the attention they needed through sequels or content updates.

You may really want to know what happens next in Half Life, I do too. But untapped gameplay potential should take pirority over cliffhangers.

Yup, the original schedule Valve suggested (though they didn’t sign it in blood, and no-one, least of al me, was surprised when they didn’t hit it) was three episodes released six months apart, starting shortly after HL2 was released. Then it turned into 18 months per episode, but by that count they’re again way behind schedule.

Based on comments made after Episode 2 came out – most notably the whole, “We agree that you shouldn’t have to wait 18 months just for a small chunk of game,” thing – I suspect Ep 3 is now something far bigger and more interesting, and will be very intriguing when it comes out. But I think it would be nice if they came out and said, “The episodes thing didn’t work, we’re rethinking things but don’t worry, Freeman will be back, in the meantime have some more PORTAL stuff,” etc.

I always played with a CD of Gregorian chanting in the drive. The track that came up for Ziggurat Vertigo was one with just a single monk singing a piece called “The Lamentations of Jeremiah”. It remains one of the most appropriate pieces of game music I’ve ever heard.

What, that thing that EVERYONE is doing now? You want Another Multiplayer Shooter? I’d rather they go back to singleplayer like Doom and the first two Quakes were.

[EDIT] To clarify, I realise Doom did invent the deathmatch as we know it, and that Quake was equally adept, but that’s not my experience of either of those series. Point is – these games were BOTH, instead of the one-or-other choice we seem to get lumbered with nowadays.

Quake 3 never interested me as much as UT did, purely because of UT’s greater variety. But I think the basic run around and kill people idea has been done to death now. It would be a mistake for id to go back and try and relive Q3’s old glories.

iD may have invented deathmatch with Doom but they popularised it with QuakeWorld & it’s pantheon of multiplayer mods (such as the little known QuakeWorld Team Fortress).
Sure the single player games of Quake & Quake 2 weren’t bad but lets not bullshit ourselves & pretend that was the reason for their successes. Case in point Quake 3 (see also Unreal Tournament Series).

“i played quake3 for years and didnt even touch the capture the flag mode.”

I’ve played Quake 1 for years and never touched multiplayer. “Play it in a few hours and throw it away” In SP is more a problem with the lack of modding and shallow overarching design of most modern FPS games (there’s only so many game-play configurations you can use without relying on style over substance when Men With Guns is the only enemy available). If the new Quake avoids those things it can have plenty of SP lasting appeal.

Fast paced action with extreme mobility; solid, thoughtful, organic level design; accessible modding tools and a strong community. None of these aspects of classic games are tied to an IP, but they’re the aspects your reboots, revivals and reduxsies should be concerned with.

Heh – okay, I am a heathen. I didn’t get into Dark Mod much myself, so when the rest of the mods dried up I dropped out. Also when I switched to a 16:9 monitor I could never get the Doom 3 reticle to display as anything other than a squashed oval, so I decided it was time to move on. But there were some great Doom 3 mods back in the day, many of which brought back the fast-paced high pressure gameplay missing from the vanilla game.

Stacey, if you are *wooosh*ing at me, then you are practically *wooosh*ing at your own comment. Which would defy the very purpose of your post, which in turn could only hint at the unknown abyss between the stars which endless darkness no sane mind could ever fathom.

@Squirrel: Jokes aside, note that we’re talking Quake 1 here, as pure an FPS as an FPS can get. That unsurprisingly makes any Lovecraftian influence present in the game to be purely cosmetic. If this was trying to be a game closely related to the Cthulhu mythos then, yep, some of us would probably be upset or sarcastic, but it clearly isn’t (or, to be specific, wasn’t).

Hm, I guess I created a horrible monstrosity of a pun then, an affront to the comedian laws of nature. Of course I am aware that Quake isn’t really what Lovecraft had in mind back then, I just felt the urge to ham that point. It seems I failed to do so.

I found it a very fun shootybangs. The weapons were very pleasing and it surprised me by keeping the early ones useful into the later game, since the assault rifle was actually nice and accurate and good at range.

I guess it wasn’t as fast-and-raw as Quake, which is certainly reason enough to dislike it if Q1/2 were your thing. But since I didn’t care for those, I’d say it was a bad choice of title more than a bad game.

I’m quite fond of Quake 4 as well and I’m always a bit surprised why it seems to be so disliked. Not a groundbreaking game, but a rather fun FPS. My only real complaint is that it switched the temple-like architecture and eternal dusk of the Quake 2 Stroggos into a generic biomechanical grimgrimdarkdark alien style.

Interesting. I always like the weird juxtaposition of how you start with a bog-standard military complex level and then you’re dropped into dark fantasy land. I’d be intrigued to see this. Although a high res Shambler, Vore, and that leaping gremlin thingy would give me a good fright for sure.

I want more gothic architecture that seaps atmosphere from its very pores.
I want maps that feel like they’re out to get you and only make sense in a game world.
I want that gun in the middle of the screen again.
I want original Quake’s stupidly fast movement.
I want an unapolagetically unbalanced weapon set where the rocket rules the day.
I want those glorious gore trails leaking from gibs spiralling through the air.
I want my ax back.
I want Claustrophobopolis and The Bad Place.
I want telefrags.
I want Spawn.
I want Vore.
I want Shamblers.

I would LOVE to see a proper sequel to Quake 1. I know its fiction was a mess and it only touched at the edges of anything really Lovecraftian, but it was a lot of fun. Not even as brown as people remember – I mean, it had huge swathes of BLUE! But what really made it great was the oldskool design you don’t see anymore – The emphasis on puzzles and traps… I don’t think, sadly, we’ll see a return to that.

It had a story etc, but the main reason it was set in Gothic/medieval-style castles etc is that originally it was supposed to be fantasy-themed and melee-based. They eventually (after a lot of hype about the original concept) switched it to the more typical FPS fare but I guess they didn’t want to build all the levels from scratch so they kept those in and came up with some quick story to justify the mishmash.

Yeah, I feel game design lost something when the focus moved away from level design and began to focus on the AI of enemies.
I like to think of it as “Actual Intelligence vs. Artificial Intelligence”.
In a Quake level, the designer is finding interesting ways to challenge the gamer. Some levels in Quake are so utterly alien in design, it takes a moment to get your head around just what is expected of you.
In a modern shooter’s level, the designer is relying on the AI to provide the challenge, and as AI is still dumber than a sack of hammers, the experience is less satisfying.

And don’t get me started on the lovely secrets. I miss those old style secrets, where whole levels could remain hidden until you found that switch hidden away in an unlikely corner of the map.

I agree that the level design was great, as was the creature design. The monsters not only brilliantly complemented the level design, but each other, which made for some insane firefights. Of all the great mid-90s shooters, I still think Quake plays the best.

That said, I do think the weird art design played a big part in making the game immersive.

@Mungrul – I have to disagree with your assessment that AI has taken over level design as the focus of FPS. The majority of FPS games have enemies spawn, run to pre-determined cover and pop up and down from it. Just compare the shift from FEAR to FEAR 2 for an example. In fact, the only games I can think of since FEAR that offered AI of any comparable quality is Crysis and, to a lesser extent, Far Cry 2.

I would actually say that the narrowing of level design has narrowed the possibilities of thr AI (note my two modern-ish examples of good AI are open world or featuring open levels.) There is simply no point in a developer giving the enemies the ability to flank and like when the level is nothing more than a corridor.

What has really plagued the modern shooter is an over reliance of set pieces and fights requiring you to reach a checkpoint to stop the waves.

Fair point Vandelay, and I’m in complete agreement in regards FPS levels being nothing more than tight corridors these days.
But I think the point about Quake’s levels being designed with actual intelligence (and massive dollops of imagination), is a good one. It harks back to a time when things didn’t have to make sense, they just WERE.

As a side note, it would be really cool if they could get Romero involved. Highly, highly unlikely, but very cool. There’s a certain Romero flavour to original Quake that is missing from the later games.

I think that the main difference is Freedom – Quake levels needed to do one thing – be great levels. So the level designers had a lot more freedom, and could make more complex, or more weird, or more puzzle-like levels. I feel like the weird (and good) mix of art styles was a product of the freedom of design, rather than the other way around.

These days, levels have to tell stories. Levels have to have set pieces. Levels have to be REALISTIC. Levels have to be consistent. That takes away a lot of the freedom and variation for the level designers. Infact, I often feel level designers now aren’t level designers, they’re artists making a beautiful setting.

I guess it was the quest for more realism based story based “deeper” shooters that started it. But for a while (dark forces, Jedi Knight, Half life) there was a reasonable balance between level design and story/experience design. Then the latter took over.
(anyone remember Oni? Great game – big selling point was the levels were designed by real architects. Boring levels. But compared to games now it had amazingly varied levels. )

I think, if you took away all the textures, bumpmaps, backgrounds, objects etc.. quake levels would still be great to play in flat low poly textures. Most modern shooters would be dull without the eye candy to distract/immerse you.

That said, I like stories in my games, and I wouldn’t want all FPS to go back to being random collections of levels and enemies. However I’d like some variation, and mixes of the two types – something we don’t get very often.

But I imagine that even if id did make quake with an old school style, it’d still be forced to play by modern rules – so it’d be CoD with a lovecraft skin – and probably log entries and a story crammed in.

I think the focus on narrative (i.e. failed screenwriters putting together shitty plots that we have to sit through, which turns gaming into a passive entertainment instead of an active one) had more to do with FPS type games going to shit. I’d like devs to take the time and money they put into the stories and use them to create amazing, varied levels and encounters (which is basically why Quake 1 is still the best of the series).

Wow, this is great news. I am of the opinion that Quake 1 has the best setting and world of any FPS , certainly the most atmospheric and aesthetically substantial. I am excited. I hope it will come out in my lifetime.

Trent Reznor’s soundtrack also did a hell of a lot for the atmosphere. Unfortunately, I hear that the versions you can buy on Steam, etc, have that removed and replaced with some techno rock nonsense. I guess it must have been some sort of licensing issue but that’s a damn shame. The music contributed a lot to the whole creepy atmosphere.

No techno-nonsense, the Steam versions of Quake I and II and all the xpacks just have no music soundtrack at all .

There are newer builds of all the engines that can play the soundtracks from .oggs and such, though. Been replaying Quake 1 like this now, the alternation between frantic action and spooky NIN ambience is refreshing.

I really hope they do. I was really disappointed in the whole alien direction of Quake 2 and removing the horror/demonic stuff from the original. I never bothered with the campaign, but I DID have TONS of fun with the multiplayer, so that made up for it. Quake 2 was just awesome. So many weapon mods, tons of maps. Just awesome.

Quake 1 was a great game- not just the multiplayer, the single player was top notch. The level and monster design must be mentioned and remembered, always. Also there was a shitload of ludicrous quality single player mods. No wonder most of the dudes that did those went on to work for professional studios shorty after, most of them were hired by valve if I recall correctly