QOTW: “Can Politically Conservative Men Date Black Women?”

February 16, 2017 | Christelyn Karazin |

THE LETTER:

Dear Christelyn,

First of all, I want to thank you for your wonderful and encouraging videos!
I have a question concerning interracial dating and politics. Short introduction to myself: I’m a 19 years old, white, male college student and have always been attracted to black women. I have noticed though, that there is a huge political divide between white men and black women. According to exit polls only 4% of black women voted R last November (while 15% of black men and about 60% of white men did). While this might have something to do with the polarizing rhetoric of Mr. Trump, it is hard not to see that there is a huge disconnect in terms of political opinion between black women and white men.
The main “problem” that I (as a person that believes in republican/libertarian viewpoints) see with interracial dating, is that I fear black women will reject me based on my political opinions. Alot of people seem to assume that if you are “right-wing” you are automatically racist (which I can attest to be untrue, I am hispanic looking and have always been treated with utmost respect by fellow republicans).
As a child of first-generation immigrants, I can’t stand people that attack our freedom of speech (in my parents home country people go to jail for what the government deems “hate speech”) or constantly critisize America, while praising/ignoring the problems of other countries that are worse places to live in in every regard. Unfortunately however, this sentiment seems to be very prevalent among young black women in America…
Whats your opinion on this? Can a conservative man and a black woman find love and if so, how?
I would love it if you could find the time to film a video on this topic.

I guess to some extent, I would be considered conservative in relation to American politics, although i’m more libertarian, than conservative. While my ex and I didn’t get into politics, we didn’t have many difficulties when it came to our relationship.

Neb16

When I was in college, I identified as libertarian ( still do to some extent, but more left leaning). I dated this guy who was a communist. When most couples argue it’s usually “why were you looking at that girl/guy?” or “why didn’t you come home last night?”. In the relationship with this guy, we argue about politics, economic policy, philosophical ideals, etc. He didn’t take my views seriously and he was also sexist (he wanted a traditional woman) with SJW ideals. He even tried to tell me what to believe. Anyway, we did not split amicably at all, that’s the best way I can put it (if you want to know what happened, he cheated).
I think if I dated a guy who was conservative leaning, he would have been more understanding. He also would not have thought that my being libertarian was going against who I am as a black woman. It’s not that most black women are liberal (we are across the spectrum). The problem is that conservatives in the black community have to go into hiding because if we vote differently from the collective, then we are called “Uncle Tom”, “sellout” and “not black enough”.
I think it is possible for a conservative to date a black woman. If the letter writer is reading this: most colleges have clubs for so many interests. The school I went to had a club for Republicans. I would start there if you want to meet a black conservative women.

chest_nut61

I’m conservative and have never had a problem finding BW that were interested in me. I was and always have been more of the shy, nerdy type. I tend to like entertainment (radio, TV, movies, and most especially music) that is much out of the mainstream. Those kinds of issues were far more likely to be an indicator of whether or not I would get along with any given woman, regardless of race, than my political leanings.

KawaiiCutie

I personally am not interested in dating any man who voted for trump. That man is full of hate and is racist, sexist, and extremely ignorant. Anyone who supports him does not deserve a spot in my life nor in my bedroom.
I care about equal rights. America should be great for ALL not simply cis white males.
Thus the answer to this question is absolutely positively not. Please if you are a trump supported walk right past me and don’t even bother hitting on me.

NicholasHuzsvai

Good response. As in most cases, one has to dig past the labels, because, at least in America, “conservative” and “liberal” identities are the results of vague yet effective framing (“socialist” and “libertarian” are more concrete). Where a person stands on each specific issue will better reflect their value system and worldview than just asking them point-blank what their general affiliation is in one word, and in reality most people, because we are nuanced creatures, are mixed (for example, I’m pretty far left on economics but lean somewhat conservative on select moral issues).

Of course, it goes without saying that there are certain political red lines that an individual shouldn’t feel obliged to accommodate regardless of political self-identification, and this recent election may have forced more of these out into the open than usual. There’s conservative, and then there’s CONSERVATIVE, and Trump is really pushing it. Nobody should be judged for drawing their own line.

DWB

Neb16 “…he wanted a traditional woman with SJW ideals.”

LOL

DWB

I am more libertarian than conservative (and find myself getting more radical as time goes by,) but my wife is pretty happy with Trump and his policies and probably would have voted for him but for his personal behavior.

This puts her in a distinct minority. As with many peoples with a history of persecution, tribalistic politics are the norm and dissenters can be treated quite badly (black Americans turn this up to 11) and many are quite intolerant and judgmental.

This in NO WAY should discourage you and others from pursuing BW. If you are like me, finding a BW willing to stand out from the crowd is a QUITE rewarding experience. Just understand that you will need to do a little extra vetting — don’t give up if a couple loud black Democrats try to dissuade you.

My father was ALSO an FDR worshiper and no amount of facts can dissuade such people, but the idea that he ended the depression is laughable. In addition, AA’s have been voting for Democrats 70-80 percent since FDR — the idea that after 100 years of fighting for civil rights, the GOP went “never-mind!” and switched places with the Democrat party is unbelievable balderdash.

Good luck!

Miranda Xu

I lol’ed too! That’s not how that works at all!!!

DWB

Miranda Xu IKR!!!!!!

:-0

NicholasHuzsvai

DWB Neb16 The part about wanting a traditional women was separated from the rest of the sentence by parentheses. She’s saying that they guy himself was a sexist but also held “SJW” ideals (whatever that means), which is marginally less nonsensical but not by much.

Oh Mon Dieu. This question again? Just specific instead of general but the same. Maybe because he’s young. This blog should really have a monthly contest for any variation of this query and send the winner his own shrink-wrapped, Black woman via Fedex.

Neil Marsden PJDeanwriter ouch! hope there was enough padding. transit can be rocky

Neb16

NicholasHuzsvai DWB

I don’t like to use the term “social justice warrior” (SJW) lightly because social justice is important. If it wasn’t for people pushing for social justice, then this country would still have anti-miscegenation laws among other things. The guy I dated wanted it both ways. He wanted his communist beliefs and a relationship where he gets to call all the shots. He was also anti-feminist to the point that he believed that women should not have any opinions. I was not in my right mind when I was dating him.

I think that when he said “dating a black woman is the most revolutionary thing I could ever do”, should have been a red flag. I should have left him to dust when he said that.

It was really late when I typed that story. I apologize for not being clear enough.

Neb16

DWB Neb16
I meant to say that his beliefs in social justice and what he wanted in a woman were the complete opposite.

DWB

Neb16 DWB That is what I assumed that you meant.

chest_nut61

dbrooks109 Outstanding response!

zipporah

DWB i think many black americans ‘split their votes’ until LBJ
many voted for EISENHOWER.. in the fifties.. where blacks were able to vote

DWB

zipporah DWB A Republican hasn’t received 40% since 1936.

The majority of Republicans voted (and always have) for the various Civil Rights bills — they did not pass (or were weakened) because until 1964, not enough DEMOCRATS supported them.

NicholasHuzsvai

Neb16 NicholasHuzsvai DWB Oh believe me, I wasn’t imputing otherwise. It’s just the original wording that was unclear to me. “SJW” always struck me as something of a misnomer, because insofar as the term refers to an actual type, the ones I’m familiar with care less about social justice per se than their own ego and self-promotion.

In any case, that guy sounds like he was a real piece of work. Sorry you had to go through that. How long ago was this? The late 60s and early 70s countercultural milieu was infested with those sorts; part of the reason second-wave feminists separated from that scene to focus on consciousness-raising.

Neb16

NicholasHuzsvai Neb16 DWB
This was around 2010. It was a little before Occupy Wall Street and
during the popularity of the Tea Party Movement. We talked about
building a commune together with other people who shared his beliefs.
Being the type of person that I am, I would have found a way to make it
happen no matter how unrealistic it sounds.
He made
everything political. One time we went to World Market and I saw a
Persian rug. It was very beautiful and I wanted to get it for my
apartment to make it livable. He shamed me by saying “it’s very
bourgeois of you want that rug”. We couldn’t even watch movies without
him pointing out how stereotypical the characters were.
I
was very devastated when he broke up with me because I gave up a lot to
be with him. I had fair-weather friends that didn’t talk to be until I
stopped dating him. My neighbor from Russia saw how bad it was and he
told me the same thing happened to him. A girl he dated left him for
someone else in the middle of the relationship. He told me that I
handled it very gracefully, because his Russian fiancee would have
reacted violently.

Bad2DaBone

dbrooks109 Girl, you hit the nail on the head! I live in Philadelphia, PA. Most registered voters, black, white, Hispanic,etc., are Democrats. However, Philly is one of the most segregated cities in the nation. When I was married, I lived in a county outside the city. This county is mostly Republican, and the WP were very friendly, no matter if one shared their political viewpoints or not. Some of the communities were rather well intergrated, in so far as race and economics.

NicholasHuzsvai

Neb16 NicholasHuzsvai DWB Wow. A single rug is too bourgeois? I seriously didn’t know people like him still existed in real life.

Jstrazz

dbrooks109 Absolutely fantastic response.

LahLeeRox

Hey I say go for it! I am a black Conservative woman and my hubby is a Latino Conservative. One thing to remember is don’t date someone where you have to walk on eggshells when you express your opinion. Of course you respect the other person and she needs to respect your viewpoint as well. My husband and I have a lot in common including how we view politics. There are African American women out there who have conservative views just need to know where to find them. Be Encouraged it can work!

palefloret

Yes! What passes as conservatism is not conservatism, but bigotry. The problem in this country is lack of or horrible teaching of Government/Civics etc. So many don’t realize that Left and liberal are opposing spectrums as with Right and and conservative. We really need better Gov education in the U. S.

palefloret

What I think he should do is learn AA history and why black people majority wise do not vote Republican as they did in the past. Barry Goldwater helped to loose more of the black vote. Black people up until the 60’s really hung in there.

DWB

palefloret Barry Goldwater?

The desegregationist Barry Goldwater?

The co-founder of the Phoenix NAACP?

That Barry Goldwater?

Talk about needing to teach/learn history!!!!!

NYMan

I voted for Ted Cruz in the primary and Trump in the general election. Me apologize for being a conservative? Hell, no!

unemployedfatty

dbrooks109 The beginning of what you said is incredibly true and was actually recently highlighted on the tv show “Blackish.” The grandmother on that show is a typical black church lady and like a lot of black people she identifies as a democrat. So, the younger daughter on the show gives her one of those “which candidate do you align with most” quizzes that you can take online and she was shocked that she actually aligned more with Republicans than Democrats. I would say there are a ton of black women just like her in this country. They vote Democrat because they have been taught that Republicans are racist and quite frankly, Republicans don’t do a lot to help their cause with some of the stuff that they get caught saying and doing, so it’s a very easy narrative to buy into.

G404

palefloret Little sidenote: cause I know it will come up. Goldwater opposed the 64 civil rights bill only because of titles 2 and 7 as he saw them as unconstitutional. He was NOT opposed to the civil rights acts of 57 or 60 at all.

Statuesque

DWB palefloret Yes, indeed, talk about needing to learn before trying to teach:

Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act. That’s like a person ostensibly supporting the abolition of slavery supporting the Fugitive Slave Law. Black Republicans were not fooled at the time and Black people are not fooled now by revisionist history. It is VERY clear where Mr. Goldwater stood on this issue.

Statuesque

Black people are very conservative and traditional for the most part, across ethnic groups. The reason why the GOP receives little to no support from Black Americans in particular should be obvious: The GOP, commencing with Reconstruction and the abandonment of the party platform of overt Black liberation, has steadily fed the beast of regressive, white supremacist strains in this country. Black people are not blind or stupid. If white conservativism in this country had truly embraced a non-racialist conservatism it would actually appeal to Blacks who are also conservative. So what you have instead are most Blacks, conservative or not, throwing in with the Democratic party, where most of the northern liberals and racially progressive Southerners gravitated to. It should be obvious why they’ve done so, given the GOP voting record since abandoning Blacks and allowing Jim Crow and ghettoization supported by the White majority until the 1960s in both parties to flourish.

A non-racist conservative White man who can acknowledge the truth of what Blacks have been through in this country will probably find a lot of similarly inclined Black women. The problem is that so many do not, indeed, refuse to, acknowledge that the movement they support is often an inhospitable place for Black people.

DWB

Statuesque DWB palefloret But WHY did he vote against the bill? He voted for others!

Did a black guy step on his shoe and he quit the the NAACP in disgust?

Why oh why could it be??????

I could do your research for you, but in order to be as clever as you think you are, it would behoove you to do the research yourself.

Here’s a hint — he explained exactly why — what human rights Democrats were violating with Jim Crow and how did their “fix” continued to violate human rights?

Riddle me this: who were these laws punishing? Who was regulated?

Statuesque

DWB Statuesque palefloret I’m not riddling you a damned thing and am really over your BS. You can’t have a civilized discussion without condescension or hostility, which is why you are frequently an object of scorn and derision by many Black women here when you shove your foot down your throat in these discussions, trying to “school” someone and ending up looking like an ass. Like right now. So no, this response is going to be the extent of my engagement with you until you can behave better.

I am well versed in American history. Goldwater did what just about every GOP presidential candidate has done to win over the regressive White majority: Throw Black people under the bus.

Statuesque

KawaiiCutie I will accept 2 reasons for voting for Trump, but generally agree that if he appeals to you, you are not likely to appeal to me in any romantic sense.

Blanc2

There is no natural conflict between being a conservative WM and dating BW. In fact, if you look at the places that have historically been the most liberal — Detroit, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh — these are invariably the places where black people are in the worst circumstances. However, it is also necessary to highlight the stark divide between conservative and Republican. The Republican party ceased being conservative with Ronald Reagan. Also, its embrace of the Southern Strategy has caused it to increasingly embrace disgustingly racist world views, never mind the outright fascism that now infuses the part. The Republican party does not even remotely embrace truly conservative view. I frankly do not think there can be a successful relationship between a Republican in the current mold and a BW.

anarchisttomato

You mentioned you were a “registered Independent”. What do Americans mean when they say they are a “registered” [xyz]? Registered how and with whom? This isn’t something we have here in Australia, so I’m not sure what it means.

Neb16

anarchisttomato
You sign up to vote and choose your party when it’s listed on the form. It’s usually done through Department of Motor Vehicles when you sign up to get a driver’s license or a state issued ID. Sometimes the voter registration form comes with the application for an ID or driver’s license. In the US, you have to register with the government to vote because only a US citizen can vote.
In the case of Christelyn, it means that when she signed up to vote she checked the Independent box on the form. Party affiliation matters the most during primaries when voters choose who they nominate for their party (I might have to fact-check this). Once you sign up (register), you receive a card with your party affiliation and you take with you to the poll when it’s time to vote.

Blanc2 It’s challenging unless the BW is ideologically conservative and/or believes that part of a man’s leadership role in the relationship/family is to determine political affiliation. Then I’ve seen it work very well, especially if said Black woman has divested of the Black community due to lack of faith in BM as viable heads of household, etc.

There are lots of stories of women pretending to or feeling forced to vote the way their mates do. A lot of these women were White so it does make me wonder whether that’s what conservative White men are used to.

I dated someone who came from a small-town, conservative background and there was just a lot he didn’t know or intuitively display openness towards. A lot of conservatives are like this IMO, just raised in environments that are somewhat authoritarian and they aren’t used to ambiguity. His actual views were more liberal and libertarian (we are actually score similarly on the Political Compass test and are in the same left-libertarian quadrant) but his upbringing gave him a baseline for ultra-conservative views that he was in reality more flexible on, or at least willing to learn.

anarchisttomato

Neb16 anarchisttomato Dude, that’s absolutely crazy – it’s no wonder people politically categorise each other so easily in the US! Over here at least, privacy regarding one’s political affiliations is sacrosanct.

pioneervalleywoman

anarchisttomato Neb16
Registering independent tends to mean that the registrant asserts no specific political affiliation. As a result, s/he has in general no right to vote in the primaries held by the main political parties for picking candidates for office. Many people register as independent so that they are not seen as beholden to any particular party. Thus, they are considered a large population of “swing voters” that no particular party can rely upon.

anarchisttomato

pioneervalleywoman anarchisttomato Neb16 Oh my goodness, that’s appalling. I can’t believe the US has this and the Electoral College – in what universe is that democracy?

Patricia Kayden

It’s not too hard to figure out why Black women were repulsed by Trump. And free speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences and criticism.
Milo Yanniapolis abused free speech by racially attacking the Black comedian Leslie Jones to the point where he was kicked off Twitter.
The government cannot proscribe speech but private entities and individuals can decide what speech to allow in private forums.
While I wouldn’t be interested in being in a relationship with a man who supports a bigot like Trump, what other Black women do is up to them.

anarchisttomato pioneervalleywoman Neb16 On the federal level, we are not a democracy, we we never intended to be a democracy at the national level. At the state level, we are. In broad strokes, the United States is just that, a union of separate states. It’s is incredibly more nuanced then that, however, broadly, that was the original design. One of the reason’s this was done was done to prevent smaller states from being vassals of larger states, at best or, at worst, like the Hunger Games with power centralized to major population centers.
To see how not having representation works, look to the indian reservations in the US. To varying degrees and with exceptions, reservations are sh!tholes were peoples were put to be forgotten, and largely, they have been. The legacy of the reservation system is one of the “sins” of this country, (Slavery being another that cost us a horrendous blood price to end.) What started out with “good” intentions by a few with the reservations, failed due to the soft racism of lowered expectations, benign neglect, and out right hate by others. The urban projects aren’t much better in some cases.
Back to my point, the Electoral College protects states like mine, South Dakota, from being ignored at the Federal level, and ensures that our interests are heard. It’s easy for someone on the costs to dismiss us as fly over, but we have a say in our country too. Dismissing the importance and significance of our federal structure shows how quickly the concerns of “fly over” country will disappear from the national conservation once the Electoral College is ended…because isn’t the whole point of ending the electoral college to allow the population centers to be able to ignore the rest of the country? Am I to trust my “betters” on the coasts to keep to be fair to me and mine here in the plains? Why? When has that worked long term?

ZenMaster65

Hate to say it but if everything else in the relationship is clear, open and good to go, worrying about political preferences should take a back seat. Sorry I am middle of the road in far as I can see both sides, weigh the benefits and comment then. I have numerous black lady friends who have a liberal bend and my current girlfriend is more conservative bend. The important thing is we respect each other enough t talk about things but also respect each others right to their beliefs. even my current girlfriend and hopefully fiancé somewhat differ politically but that is not a show stopper to having a happy life with someone are about. If you let some this minor get in the waver much more important aspects of a relationship: SHAME ON YOU. Sorry I have no control over politics except making sure that every voting cycle I do not vote for the incumbent if they have been in Congress longer than 2 terms regardless of party.

Neb16

anarchisttomato Neb16
I think that people politically categorizing each other is just a
part of American culture. Any time you believe in something different
from what everyone else believes, then you are indirectly telling them
they are wrong. So they become defensive as demonstrated during the 2016
presidential election. Some people take politics too seriously except
when it matters the most. I know people who complain about whoever is
elected and they never went out to vote.

I remember in
college one of my humanities instructors was telling me that the
Founding Fathers did not think about the far future of this country. I
agree with her to this day.

G404

anarchisttomato pioneervalleywoman Neb16
Its NOT, everyone seems to forget the United States is a Constitutional Republic, in fact the only times the Founding Fathers ever mentioned democracy was with derision. “democracy” is only applied at the state level or less.

pioneervalleywoman

Minn_man anarchisttomato pioneervalleywoman Neb16
Excellent points here. As a political moderate in a left-leaning state, the democracy here is annoying. The large urban environments are not even liberal, in my view. They overwhelmingly radical, and even socialist in their political perspectives. I cringe at the thought of those types running the national government. So I’m glad to find common cause with more conservative residents in other parts of my state who can help balance out things. This is similar to what happens at the national level and federal elections.

pioneervalleywoman

G404 anarchisttomato pioneervalleywoman Neb16
Indeed, the Founding generation was deeply troubled that within a generation or so of their time, democracy was what they got, not deference to a leaders of a republic, and a lot of the impetus came from the state governments that changed their constitutions in the 1820s (Jacksonian period) from the revolutionary era ones (1770s). For example, the states got rid of property requirements for white men to vote.

anarchisttomato

Neb16 anarchisttomato Did you see the SNL Black Jeopardy sketch with Tom Hanks? I thought that beautifully illustrated just how artificial these political categories are, and how we all have much more in common than we think.

Blanc2

Statuesque Blanc2 There is of course a spectrum of “conservative” just as there is a spectrum of “liberal”. I consider myself to be a true conservative, which means my ideology and voting mostly aligns with libertarian views: small government, few or no restrictions on individual liberties, etc. Let’s get one thing clear: anybody aligned with the Republican party is not conservative in any traditional sense of the word. Today’s Republican party spends tons, grows government, and, worse, it embraces the racist, woman-hating radicalism of far-right evangelical Christianity, which seeks an activist government that imposes religion on the nation.

It has been my observation that there is a large reservoir of latent conservatism within the black community. At the personal level, you see large segments of the community cherishing virtues like working hard, saving money, etc. You see large segments embracing the notion that government should not intrude needlessly into individual liberty. You see a natural distrust of government generally, coupled with a sense that government should be smaller, not larger.

I personally don’t think that the “husband as king” view of a marriage is parallel to a conservative political ideology. That “husband as king” thing is borderline radicalized fundamentalist Christianity, which is anathema to true conservatism.

EastK

Neil Marsden Interesting point “if the letter writer can connect with and have a relationship with a black woman is he then willing to stand up and protect her if he has to ?”

I think talking about politics is a complete waste of time. I think people get bogged down by having these types of conversations and stop working on the things that truly provide protection… having a steady and successful career… buying a home… getting out of debt… building wealth…

When I see people arguing politics around a water cooler (metaphorically, you know), I walk away.

Bad2DaBone

Blanc2 The only way a relationship between a WCM (white conservative man) and a BW would work, the woman must be just as conservative. I have know a few BW who are not Democrat or Liberaterian in ideology and voting stance. Not all black are Democrats or Other.

Cloe H

I saw this comment on a YT video. It’s oddly fitting. “not every Trump supporter is a racist. But coincidentally every racist is a trump supporter”- RedFoxxx21.

anarchisttomato

Cloe H Oh I dunno, I’m sure some of them just skip straight past Monsieur D’Orange and go straight to some supreme lizard overlord!

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