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Well said SJ. I had never thought about the competitive advantage one would have with a wealth of experience coupled with the younger mans strength and rejuvenation. I just thought of it giving them the ability to hulk smash more.

I am just curious as to how they (the Athletic commissions) determine what an acceptable level of testosterone for a certain age of men. Wouldn't levels be different from person to person? That depending on how you take care of your body through out your life change your testosterone level as you age? I just see it as a huge grey area. Do we even know how using TRT affects the body long term?

The UFC is partially to blame in the Vitor situation too. You dont see them hiding any other fighter on TRT in a certain state or country like they did Vitor. You can be against it all you want - as dana claims to be time after time but they put him on cards in Brazil with a shady athletic commission making an already shady situation that much worse and did so multiple times.

The funniest thing about that post is you assume Brazil is shady yet do not even mention how shady Cali and Vegas are....let alone NJ. As a matter of fact, didn't the UFC hire an outside agency to act as a "commission" when they first went back to Brazil before CABMMA came to prominence?

I don't think he's being hidden in Brazil at all, it just fits the narrative of the keyboard warriors.

You say shark I say hey man, Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars

The funniest thing about that post is you assume Brazil is shady yet do not even mention how shady Cali and Vegas are....let alone NJ. As a matter of fact, didn't the UFC hire an outside agency to act as a "commission" when they first went back to Brazil before CABMMA came to prominence?

I don't think he's being hidden in Brazil at all, it just fits the narrative of the keyboard warriors.

I think fighting in Brazil suits Vitor just fine because (among other things) he knows getting a TUE in Nevada will be difficult. Whether or not the UFC is hiding him there I'll leave to the masses to argue about.

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"Without blinking I bitch slapped him right across the face and grabbed him and yelled, "You go out there and beat his ass!!!" Nate "The Rock" Quarry.

"Shit just got real here in the Max!" Michael "The Voice" Schiavello at K-1 World Max Rd of 16 2010, Zambidis vs. Chahid.

Basically people suspect vitor pumped himself full of testosterone for all these years, now that he is back in UFC he's off the juice and his body cannot produce enough of its own T, he gets slammed for trying Trt to supplement the damage he has done to himself.

Which is all bullshit speculation, and I'm curious why it's reserved for Vitor, specifically.

chael sonnen admitted abusing TRT in a hearing, and it seems like he gets a pass, because a demographic within the fans find him amusing.

Originally Posted by BonesKnows

agree on all points - you actually corrected me as i thought Bosch was registered doctor on the united states. That still sits in my mind when i hear people defend it by saying well a doctor said so because we have seen countless other times where one doctor says one thing and then 3 other doctors all say different things which results in 4 different diagnosis or treatments for one injury or illness.

ah. But that still doesn't hold water. Vitor had a specific, verified injury to his knee. The recommended treatment at the time was what was followed...it wasn't anything that 3 different doctors would have done differently. The issue was that the doctor didn't anticipate Vitor competing again with only a partially healed meniscus. If I remember correctly, it was 2 months between the time of his surgery and the time of his bout with Henderson--that's barely enough time to heal with rest, never mind with a training camp.

Originally Posted by beardown98

I am just curious as to how they (the Athletic commissions) determine what an acceptable level of testosterone for a certain age of men. Wouldn't levels be different from person to person? That depending on how you take care of your body through out your life change your testosterone level as you age? I just see it as a huge grey area. Do we even know how using TRT affects the body long term?

TRT can be done right, it would just take a ton more time, and two tons more money.

Originally Posted by SimpleJack

The funniest thing about that post is you assume Brazil is shady yet do not even mention how shady Cali and Vegas are....let alone NJ. As a matter of fact, didn't the UFC hire an outside agency to act as a "commission" when they first went back to Brazil before CABMMA came to prominence?

People forget that Armando Garcia got a job working for the Fertitta casinos after the CSAC ran him out of town--and the CSAC continued to suck even then. There is shady nonsense everywhere.

I don't think he's being hidden in Brazil at all, it just fits the narrative of the keyboard warriors.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Originally Posted by earle

I think fighting in Brazil suits Vitor just fine because (among other things) he knows getting a TUE in Nevada will be difficult. Whether or not the UFC is hiding him there I'll leave to the masses to argue about.

I don't think it will be difficult.

Go back to the stuff Kizer said about sonnen when sonnen had his hearing in CA. Inadvertently, he admitted abusing TRT at astronomically high levels, he directly lied and said he had an exemption in NV and then mentioned Kizer by name as being cool with it. Kizer popped off about how upset he was, etc...and then hands sonnen a TUE once his ass is summarily kissed and money is stacked.

I'll actually be SHOCKED if Vitor doesn't get a TUE.
Public figures posture and pose...and then money makes the difference.

rh

All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.

Go back to the stuff Kizer said about sonnen when sonnen had his hearing in CA. Inadvertently, he admitted abusing TRT at astronomically high levels, he directly lied and said he had an exemption in NV and then mentioned Kizer by name as being cool with it. Kizer popped off about how upset he was, etc...and then hands sonnen a TUE once his ass is summarily kissed and money is stacked.

I'll actually be SHOCKED if Vitor doesn't get a TUE.
Public figures posture and pose...and then money makes the difference.

rh

Well, I can't really argue with that, it amazes me that Chael (a documented liar) could get a TUE. I guess I was relying on Kizer's earlier comments about Vitor but lo and behold, he'll probably get a TUE too. It is sad all around.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Without blinking I bitch slapped him right across the face and grabbed him and yelled, "You go out there and beat his ass!!!" Nate "The Rock" Quarry.

"Shit just got real here in the Max!" Michael "The Voice" Schiavello at K-1 World Max Rd of 16 2010, Zambidis vs. Chahid.

I find it most interesting how the MAJORITY of the fighters who use or used TRT have lost so many fights while using it. Forrest and Mir come to mind. The only successful fighters I can think of on TRT are Vitor and Hendo. Hendo just got stopped by Vitor. Honestly thought PEDs seems to be subjective in MMA. Nobody cares if these "young guys" are pumping themselves full of "supplements" called Xplode, Xtreme Nitro, Anabolic Super Fun Fruit Juice, ect. As long as they get it from GNC and especially if it's the UFC sponsored "supplement". Nobody seems to bat an eye. I say if you want MMA to be "all natural" then none of these things should be allowed, because they are designed to give fighters an "edge" in training. That's what they promise and even the commissions don't see them as "necessary". As long as levels are monitored randomly, and it should be at the fighters expense, through out the year as many as 2 to 3 times a month, then what's the problem? TRT has become a boogieman that people throw out there, and the same fighters who complain about it have stockpiles of powders and pills that they take every day......Come on man.....

"I don't call the fighting in my films 'violent', I call it 'action'. An action film borders between fantasy and reality. If I were to be completely realistic in my films, you would call me a violent, bloody man. I would simply destroy my opponent by tearing his guts out. I wouldn't do it so artistically." ~Bruce Lee

I find it most interesting how the MAJORITY of the fighters who use or used TRT have lost so many fights while using it. Forrest and Mir come to mind. The only successful fighters I can think of on TRT are Vitor and Hendo. Hendo just got stopped by Vitor. Honestly thought PEDs seems to be subjective in MMA. Nobody cares if these "young guys" are pumping themselves full of "supplements" called Xplode, Xtreme Nitro, Anabolic Super Fun Fruit Juice, ect. As long as they get it from GNC and especially if it's the UFC sponsored "supplement". Nobody seems to bat an eye. I say if you want MMA to be "all natural" then none of these things should be allowed, because they are designed to give fighters an "edge" in training. That's what they promise and even the commissions don't see them as "necessary". As long as levels are monitored randomly, and it should be at the fighters expense, through out the year as many as 2 to 3 times a month, then what's the problem? TRT has become a boogieman that people throw out there, and the same fighters who complain about it have stockpiles of powders and pills that they take every day......Come on man.....