whisperide wrote: Oh, look at you boys trying to act all superior, trying to justify your irresponsible behavior.
First, We have a trillion miles of pavement in this nation so you never need to get off the pavement. That's why we have so much of it. There are trails for hiking, or you can even get horses, instead of destroying nature with tires tearing out vegetation, tires eroding and vandalizing the beautiful sandstone, oils and axle lubes polluting rivers, et cetera. Plus I have hiked Arches NP, sandstone tends to be covered in loose sand, often not enough to see, leading to a good bit of slipping and falling, and twisted ankles and skinned knees.
Second, got a muddy / wet grassy / clay driveway? You can get it gravelled far cheaper than the cost of the 4WD option. a pair of tire chains is also much cheaper, if you insist on destroying the wet grass. Or get really clever and carry a bag of sand in the back. Much less labor than tire chains. Much less destructive than chains or 4WD.
Find some responsible way to have fun, rather than exacerbating the problem, and enjoy the savings.

But what if the ground is covered by snow and ice? At times I need my 4WD option just to get out of my driveway and up the road. Sometimes it's even off the road to get the ice shack onto the lake. Once the snow and ice melts, mother nature doesn't even know I was there.

whisperide wrote:Oh, look at you boys trying to act all superior, trying to justify your irresponsible behavior.
First, We have a trillion miles of pavement in this nation so you never need to get off the pavement. That's why we have so much of it. There are trails for hiking, or you can even get horses, instead of destroying nature with tires tearing out vegetation, tires eroding and vandalizing the beautiful sandstone, oils and axle lubes polluting rivers, et cetera. Plus I have hiked Arches NP, sandstone tends to be covered in loose sand, often not enough to see, leading to a good bit of slipping and falling, and twisted ankles and skinned knees.
Second, got a muddy / wet grassy / clay driveway? You can get it gravelled far cheaper than the cost of the 4WD option. a pair of tire chains is also much cheaper, if you insist on destroying the wet grass. Or get really clever and carry a bag of sand in the back. Much less labor than tire chains. Much less destructive than chains or 4WD.
Find some responsible way to have fun, rather than exacerbating the problem, and enjoy the savings.

What a naive point of view. Like most things, any time you take an all or nothing view of the world, you end up getting it wrong.

Towing my 5-er down the beach does no damage to the sand, and is simply not possible with a 2wd truck. And on dirt roads, spinning the tires of a 2wd truck will cause far more damage (ruts, erosion, etc...) than a 4wd truck that can maintain traction.

YOU may never need to get off the trillion miles of pavement in this country, but that doesn't mean everyone else won't want to.

And many of your suggestions are not realistic... gravel is the solution to wet clay or grass? First of all, getting it gravelled is not necessarily cheaper than 4wd. My parent's driveway, for example, is a 1/4 mile long up a hill. The gravel alone would cost more than the 4wd option on my truck. And what if you don't own the land? I've needed 4wd in campgrounds, state land, etc...

But moreover, we travel in our RV for pleasure, and the 4wd makes it more enjoyable. We can go more places if we choose to, and when we hit bad weather or slick terrain unexpectedly it's a whole lot easier to shift into 4wd than to have to deal with chains or bags of sand.

"Oh, look at you boys trying to act all superior, trying to justify your irresponsible behavior.
First, We have a trillion miles of pavement in this nation so you never need to get off the pavement. That's why we have so much of it. There are trails for hiking, or you can even get horses, instead of destroying nature with tires tearing out vegetation, tires eroding and vandalizing the beautiful sandstone, oils and axle lubes polluting rivers, et cetera. Plus I have hiked Arches NP, sandstone tends to be covered in loose sand, often not enough to see, leading to a good bit of slipping and falling, and twisted ankles and skinned knees.
Second, got a muddy / wet grassy / clay driveway? You can get it gravelled far cheaper than the cost of the 4WD option. a pair of tire chains is also much cheaper, if you insist on destroying the wet grass. Or get really clever and carry a bag of sand in the back. Much less labor than tire chains. Much less destructive than chains or 4WD.
Find some responsible way to have fun, rather than exacerbating the problem, and enjoy the savings."

Oh, good, now we have heard from one of those who wants to lock me, and others like me (old, bad knees, COPD, etc.) out of OUR back country!
I could express my opinion of such people, but the moderator would (justifiably) delete it. That, in and of itself, should give any reader a good idea of the opinion not stated!
I will keep my Jeeps and my ATV, thank you, and I will continue to TREAD LIGHTLY as much as possible!
Come to think of it, have you ever seen a back country trail after a dozen horses went by? Have you ever encountered the "paper flowers" left near trails by hikers who are clueless about how to properly dispose of their own waste?
Sorry, I best stop before this becomes more of a rant than I intended!

and with this, no MM it is not you, but as stated, time to shut this down before someone comes unglued. At the end of the day, does it really matter? kinda like gaz vs deezal? chebby vs frod vs dogde vs toynka vs _________, traction vs hwy treads.........depends upon how and where you drive etc. Buy what is best for you, then do not look back!