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there are some of us who who would like to disclose but in doing so would mean a quick deportation and fucked for life!!!! We all don't live in your utopia world!!

Had you read everything I wrote, you would have noted the following:

"Everyone's experience is different, and I have no doubt that some people have legitimate fears. But many people are just afraid in general, which is understandable, but likely unnecessary and a crap way to make yourself live."

In a nutshell: all in a four-month period I became HIV+ (after a particularly loathsome acute retroviral syndrome), unemployed (the nonprofit I worked for closed), homeless (I was distracted), had some mixed state bipolar psychosis (since medicated, you're welcome), suffered some assault ( ). Not to mention minor irritations like Hurricane Sandy drowning my neighborhood and not having heat or hot water for months. Also not to mention the things I just don't want to mention here. Through this period, I didn't have friends or family, so it sort of sucked. Just a few years ago, I had a decent place, a nice freelance career, an artistic endeavor that was going really well, a dog, a husband. Notice I mention the dog first.

The lessons are: "have friends and family" and "don't panic, nothing's really a big deal, and even if it is you have to suck up and face it anyway so why not start now? OK, I'll get your boots". The first can be difficult, (I'm still working on it), but the second you can do anytime.

Are you a foreign worker in a country like UAE or Singapore? Cause i read that workers there are frequently tested for hiv anyway. Plus you cant get a work visa without doing a test, the latter seems to be similar in many countries afaik. Thats also one of the many things i am afraid of ... My limited options finding work somewhere outside my home country.

Btw i love your nick, it sounds sweet and funny Your experience made me cry a bit when i read it. I cant possibly imagine how it feels to go through all that. Glad you have your dog now i hope you boyfriend will be number 1 some day though haha

I have had a much easier life so far so i guess i shouldnt complain. The worst i have had to fight with in my life wasthe death of my parents and the lonelyness due to my introvert character and the hard time i have to maintain friendships or fall in love with someone.

I think if i told everyone i was hiv+ not much would change. I could probably still get my old job back cause my boss was a really nice and liberal person. I just wouldnt be much happy with it. Most of my friends would judge me and hold me responsible for becoming infected due to unsafe sex but ultimately most would probably stand by me.

My fear of being open to the public in general are more related to getting a new job, getting travel/health insurances, being allowed to go to various countries and maybe even work there and last but not least, i know it sounds so cheesy, getting laid. Oh well ...

I just had an interesting way of disclosing (or not) on gayromeo. Can any of you tell me if that would be considered a legal way of disclosing or even moral? I think morally (for me) it would be ok. But see for yourself:

He: What are u looking for?

Me: Mhh depends. Some part of me wants nasty bare sex, another wants a friendship, a small one longs for a relationship so i cant really say haha

He:I am open for all any suggestions you have mentioned in your previous message... Would be nice if we can manage to have hot bare sex soon;-)Relationship; I am open for it but will have to see if chemistry is great and sex is wonderful;-)Anything you want to know more about me?

Me: Haha but your safe sex status says always haha

He: What can you trust on GR profile... I would say there is only this issue on my profile is unreal;-) hahahaha

Me: Are u aware of the risks? I could be pos

He: It could be vice versa ;-)

Me: I know. U dont care?

He: I am willing to take that risk and have my own responsibility;-)What do you think?

Me: Well your risk as a top is lower anyway. I just want u to be sure to know what u do

He: I know what I am doing... Don't worry about that;-)Am I allow to fuck you bare?

So what do you guys think? Personally i am assuming he is poz cause he seems intelligent from the way he answers and still doesnt seem to care about hiv.

I've read this thread several times trying to find the right way to answer and to be polite and charismatic as possible. Your way of thinking unfortunately is all too common. Many people play the game of chicken with their lives. The point is it YOUR life so you know all the variables. Other people don't know, and yes some maybe naive and think they can't catch it having a bare back sex, but that's there choice not yours to make for them. If your not gonna be honest and tell them up front then you are very dark, and that's not good at all and I feel sad for it.

I wish I knew my partner was positive, he didn't disclose to me. Yes its my fdault for going bareback but I wish I knew. Actually I had the RIGHT to know, its called common courtesy. Seven years later we are still together so I forgave and sought treatment together.

I'm not a praying person but I'll pray tonight that clarity and wisdom come to.

My honest thoughts and if it gets me banned or a "timeout" I'll accept that.

First of all i dont see why u should get banned for your post. Second you are a great person for forgiving your partner and staying with him. Nt everyone would do that.

Asfor your critisism towards me: are you referring to the whole thread or just the chat on gayromeo i posted recently? Because i think in the chat i had with this guy ( btw he is 30 and not a dumb kid) he made it pretty clear that he knows the risks and takes responsibility for himself. I think thats a clear statement even though i only partly disclosed.

As for your wish to have known before or having a right to know ..

Morally yes, probably. But in real life so many things are unkown to us. The whole life is a gamble in a way (thats a very philosophical approach i know) and humans dont always do what they are expected to do. I at least am conflicted about it and trying but i have talked to quite a few guys out there who dont even want to know, dont want to tell or worse, lie about it. Does that make them assholes? Probably, but some are still loveable as you found out with your boyfriend.

The conversation you report on Gayromeo is ridiculous. You are two grown men. "Ha ha". Don't build your new sexuality and your new morality on the Byzantine bizarreness of "honesty" "communication" and "negotiation" that one finds on Gay Romeo. One or the other needs to offer CLEAR HIV satus statement, in that conversation, right after it became clear you both were interested in bareback. But nope, it sputters on with nervous "hahahas" and one gets the impression you are both so shot full of lies and delusions. You really shouldn't get involved with such games, and game players, Btmbear... OR not until you are strong enough to cut through the bullshit and try to get what you want without all the shady "he said she said" non-statements.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:40:32 AM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

arent you reacting a bit harsh calling it ridiculous? Not every discussion has to be dead serious. And most of (my) chats are a bit ironic, sarcastic or with a bit of hahas and lots of smileys. The point of the chat was to find out if my sexpartner is aware of the risk with unsafe sex. He clearly stated that he is and that he is resonsible for himself. I domt see why i have to tell a 30 year old man who graduated from universitz (as i later found out): oh no, i cant let you fuck me bare until u have signed a statement that i am hiv+ and you know the risks.

Imo i have made it clear that i might be pos and that fucking me might be a risk to him. He made it clear that he could be hiv pos and agreed to take his part in the responsibility.

Imo not everything has to be spelled out if someone can read between the lines. Even when i know i am hiv+ i cannot take over 100% of someone elses responsibility for himself. That would be ridiculous imo.

SPELLED out isnt the same as telling someone and that is the issue. Your going around as a school child and and being very ambiguous. Your putting other people health at risk, regardless if your dropping hints or not. You have a disease that can affect other people very negatively and not only destroy your life but theirs as well.You seem to be ignoring that very fact!

Yes everyone should be responsible for themselves and show some interest in knowing the effects of HIV/AIDS.

Yes your ADULTS

but your neglecting your RESPONSIBILITY as an "ADULT" to inform people and not beat around the bush. I don't know if its that you dont have morals I dont want to really assume but your leaving me no choice.

You flatly don't care and have no regard for people. I will give you one thing though, your lack of compassion perfectly suits you for the route you have chosen.

Interesting, my doctor just recently told me hiv today is a very good managable chronic disease. He didnt mention it would destroy my life. Seems like that old fear from the 80ies is brought up when the time calls for it.

Anyway, i am not gonna argue about my character with you. If you think you know a persons character just by reading a few posts someone made about a highly conflicted issue he has than thats your problem. I am just saying this: if i was this egoistic ass you think i am than why did i start this thread in the first place? Wouldnt i rather go around fucking and infecting everyone without wasting my time here?

But i have to also stay true to my needs and my character (which is playful in general) in some way. I wont put on a death mask everytime i chat with a new guy and ask him to sign a statement that he is risking his life fucking the hiv+ butt of mine. I will never be able to live even remotely positively that way.

I have to find a way to deal with this in a way that will allow me to not think of life threatenig and deadly everytime i get to know someone. Maybe you have forgotten how it is to date people. Talking abut death and sickness is not the best way to get laid.

I have recently told all of the people i still have contact with and i had sex with before my test, i have (directly) told all the guys who wrote me about sex (of which none wanted to pursue the sex after i told them but thanked me for my honesty) and i just had sex once with the guy i had this playful conversation with on gayromeo. I still think that my conversation was pretty clear despite the hahas and that his reaction was even more clear.

"I am willing to take the risk have my own responsibility. I know what i am doing, dont worry about that" those sentences from a 30yo university graduate sound very clear to me.

Sweetie I'm not saying you are ridiculous, just that sort of chat... YES, people sure do chat like that on Gay Romeo. Doesn't mean you should continue... Soon as you figured out he was open to bareback, you could say, "cause I'm hiv+ and I like it like that." and if you have made any progress, you could also add: "but I can play safe, too."Chances are if you already got the hint hint smile haha, he could very well reply "i'm pos too". Or maybe he would drop the flirt like a hot stone and run away.... Eventually, if you are undetectable, you could throw that factoid into the conversation as well. As is, you are bothering to converse about sex and risk (yes, good for you, bravo - rather than only doing it with no talk in a sex club, etc.) but you aren't fully going the distance. Fact is, your butt is a route of transmission, for the moment.

And what if this guy (who you assume is so clever but is just as cagey as you are being) "assumes" you must be HIV+ and undetectable... Well. that's not the case. OR what if he's really a dum dum and assumes you are HIV-... You didn't say anything to the contrary....

yada yada yada...

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 02:46:28 PM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

And if you get your head out of the sand and live well with HIV, you won't have big health isssue.

Continue with the wink wink and judging people by their university diplomas, and barebacking with strangers, who seem to be ok with it, and you'll end up with some hideous STDS to fight along with the HIV.

Do this non-disclosure thing in the wrong country, you could end up in jail.

Do this non-disclosure thing with a dum dum who's not protecting himself, your butt will transmit HIV a few times.

But, its a bunch of "people who should know better" so no bad kharma for you...

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Let's look at it this way. Lets say you are chatting up a guy online. That's already a relationship. Communication between 2 humans. There are smiles and what not. ANd you hint hint about risk and barebacking and never say anything specific, neither of you. But its unspokenly agreed to meet and bareback. And he knows he has Hep C. And you meet, he tops you, and gives you Hep C. Would you be a bit put out that he didn't tell you and give you the chance to say no, I don't want to be your bottom and take that risk?

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Ok, i get your point, i think. True, i didnt go all the distance. I had the feeling that i didnt need to because of his reply that he could be pos too. That made me think that he is answering on the same level (also in a playful manner). Usually an hiv neg guy would not react like that, right? He would either not wanna talk about risks if he doesnt care or he would ask directly if i am "clean" if i got him scared. Every other guy reacted like that. And then i told them to better not take the risk with me.

But with this guy i felt it was ok to not spell it out. Also, on another level ... If someone tells you that he is aware of the risks of bareback sex with a stranger that INCLUDES the risk that the stranger is hiv+ What other major risk would there be for a gay man these days? All the other stds (except hep c are easily treatable).

So again, if someone tells me he knows the risks and takes responsibility ofhis own actions why do i have to spell it out anymore? The risk he is taking already includes the possibility that i might be infectious to him.

Because you are asking too many questions about what the other person is thinking and supposing and assuming and expecting to justify your own behaviour. (not saying I'm HIV+). Just lay it on the line and you are golden... Right? As long as you are talking, it seems the classiest thing to do. If that guy IS HIV+, he may or may not feel comfortable telling a stranger, less comfortable than screwing you, in fact. So you say, I'm HIV+ and the guy says "I accept responsibility for my own actions." What kind of creep can't say he is HIV+ to another HIV+ person who just said it, in a sex negotiation? Probably not worth sleeping with.On the chance, this guy is HIV-, then YOU probably shouldn't give your HIV+ butt to him, unprotected, no matter WHAT responsibility he "accepts". And if, by the same chance again (he is HIV-), the game might stop (oh, crap, Im in over my head) and you'll be rejected and you will move on to a better fit.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Of course it would be nice to know every risk in life before it happens. I had 2 times food poisoning in myanmar the last 2 weeks which caused high fever and diarrhea and whatnot and made me feel terrible for 2 days each. I would have wanted the restaurants to tell me beforehand that their food might not be so clean for a foreigner and i might wanna skip the risk. But they didnt.

Ok, i know, hep c is not the same. But the guy who gave me hiv didnt ask me either. Some things just happen if u do things like life a live outside safety bounderies and sometimes even inside them (you could get cancer easily).

So yes, life would be easier if everyone who had any kind of disease or would pose any risk to anyone would not even go outside the street or tell you before posing a risk. But life doesnt always work that way and it also would be much less exciting .... (Dont wanna sound sarcastic now but its actually true if u think about it)

Again, mecch ... It seems we have a different opinion about the level of responsibility people should take over other people. Lets categorize:

Nr1: no responsibility for myself or othersNr2: only responsibility for myselfNr3: responsibility for myself, helping others to take responsibility for themselvesNr4: responsibility for myself, taking over responsibility for others as well

You see, to be cat4, i am more leaning towards nr3.

I am willing to help people take their responsibility by giving them information in a way that suits the current level (ok that point is arguable but bear with me). Lets say i tell someone i am hiv+ and he says he is hiv- but still wants to fuck me bare bec the risk as a top is lower. I will ask him if he is sure but if he is then why should i stop him? In the end it is his life, his responsibility and if he didnt inform himself or doesnt care, why should i care for him? Is that realy heartless or egoistic? I domt think so. I still think people should in general be responsible for their own actions. (Unless he/she is a child, totally uneducated etc)

As for the playful conversation imo i still stayed in cat3 imo bec i warned him about the risk that i might be pos. he then stated that he knows the risks and he is an educated adult. So why should i say something which he already included in his statement about knowng the risks?

But yeah, i could have stated it clearly. It would have destroyed the playfulness though. Maybe next time i would say so.

In any way, i am playing with thethought of putting the words POZ, SICK, POISONOUS, HAZARD, DEATH, ETC on my profile anyway so maybe this whole discussion will soonbe obsolete hahaha (now was i serious or not?) haha

Just by chance I was watching a doc about Himmler on the way home from work. The question was asked.... by what morality did these major actors act, committing mass murder, for example. The german historian interviewed, explained that when the mass murders began, it was against both German and International law. Neither Himmler nor Hitler ever put forward a legal justification for murder. Nor did they ever write down, you have permission to do this.... because of this.....(morality, law, etc.).

The direct translation from Himmler is that he was searching for a solution to a problem. He said since he was "entitled" to kill military age male jews (already a crappy legal or moral defence) he decided he was also "entitled" to murder their families and children... Everyone...

The historians were fascinated by this verb and noun, "entitled" and "entitlement"...

Notice the verb is already in the passive.. (was entitled by whom!!!!?)

You may also be pondering a sort of "unwritten contract" here. Ironically, I think you were on slightly firmer ground, about going to a sex club and barebacking. (the unwritten contract - currupt but ok maybe exists - is that everyone in a sex club must protect themselves in such situations....

But here you are, on Gay Romeo, engaging in a human conversation about an important topic, but you are hedging...

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 03:46:16 PM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

No i dont think 2 wrongs make a right and i wouldnt steal someone else computer if someone would steal mine (i would though think about stealing something from the. Guy who stole my computer haha)

I dont really care who gave me hiv although i have an idea who he may have been as he was acting quite strangely in my memory. I asked him to pull out before he came and just shortly before he came he said he wants to shoot inside and did so before i could react. Then he quickly got dressed and ran out. Back then i was a bit worried and a few weeks later i got the flu. So thinking back, i dont know what category he was but probably not the nicest. But of course i dont have any proof that he was the one cause i had sex with others as well (although all the others were nice and pulled out)

Anyway thats not the point ...

The point is .. I believe that many things in life are not safe by definition. Our society sets rules to make it safer but if u cannot live by those rules you take risks. And everyone takes their own risks. I can help people understand the risks but i dont think taking over responsibility for someone else is necessarily my job. If he doesnt fuck me because i didnt wanna fuck with an hiv neg guy out of the risk for him he might go on and fuck a stranger in a sauna. I dont think thats wrong morals, i think thats real life morals.

You are saying, your pleasure is more important, than going that little extra mile from step 3, to step 4. (Though I don't think step 3 accurately describes your sexual M.O.)Talking to a human, about sex and risk, to start with. And the risk for you is, on the off chance, someone is NOT ok with your point blank statement, "I'm HIV+ and not on meds, to boot." And the person will reject you. That's the risk you are trying to avoid, with this cagey category 3.

You know, I think you will find ENDLESS opportunities for such half-assed conversations on Gay Romeo, and you will find a bottomless supply (no pun intended) of tops willing to top you bareback with odd or no or unclear communication about who is risking what. So, I guess at this point, you can just go with that and enjoy it.

As long as you are asking questions and presenting situations, that are interesting, in this forum, I'll still reply with a more enlightened and "pushy" viewpoint.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Sometimes i dont fully understand you i have to admit. I didnt. Really get your comparison between me and the nazis for instance also i am thinking you try to misunderstand me with the categories. I merely tried to say that while (i think) you wouldnt fuck with an hiv neg guy in my situation, i would do so after i had (clearly) told him i was poz and he still wants to. I wasnt talking about my playful gayromeo chat.

Anyway it is 3am here in bangkok now and i am too tired and maybe i also wrote stuff without thinking enough about it. I will retire for the night and think more about it.

As for maximising your pleasure in life, and maximising the number of tops who will bareback you, think again about broadcasting your HIV+ status on Facebook. But writing down on the Internet in a conversation "I might be HIV+". That is a lie. You ARE hiv+, and your butt is a route of transmission. Don't do that in a litigious or vengeful country. Certainly don't do it in a country with non-disclosure laws. A criminal lawsuit and possible prison sentence will crimp some of the pleasure of living. On the other hand, if you became a bottom prison bitch, you'd probably get a good selection of tops who will bareback. "ha ha"

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

As for maximising your pleasure in life, and maximising the number of tops who will bareback you, think again about broadcasting your HIV+ status on Facebook. But writing down on the Internet in a conversation "I might be HIV+". That is a lie. You ARE hiv+, and your butt is a route of transmission. Don't do that in a litigious or vengeful country. Certainly don't do it in a country with non-disclosure laws. A criminal lawsuit and possible prison sentence will crimp some of the pleasure of living. On the other hand, if you became a bottom prison bitch, you'd probably get a good selection of tops who will bareback. "ha ha"

Don't forget Im a teacher so Im very pedantic about these things.When I read your posts way back when, in the beginning, I kind of saw this as the primary challenge for you.. What am I "entitled" to, and what not... You seem to operate on the pleasure principal and incompletely thought out moral philosophy.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Setting aside all the issues your post raises, I am saddened by your total lack of any sense of self worth. You seek only sexual pleasure, with little regard for the safety of anyone, including yourself and you think disclosing your status is the hardest thing to do, because it will limit your selection of sexual partners.

You don't have a clue at what it means to be poz, but you will find out and some of the costs will be very dear. You can either work to adjust to being poz, including the moral/ethical implications, or you can just wait for fate to run you over.

Setting aside all the issues your post raises, I am saddened by your total lack of any sense of self worth. You seek only sexual pleasure, with little regard for the safety of anyone, including yourself and you think disclosing your status is the hardest thing to do, because it will limit your selection of sexual partners.

You don't have a clue at what it means to be poz, but you will find out and some of the costs will be very dear. You can either work to adjust to being poz, including the moral/ethical implications, or you can just wait for fate to run you over.

The choice is yours.

Joe

Quoted because it's a post so nice, one should post it twice.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Seriously guys i dont get it. You tell me i dont have any sense of self worth, i dont have any morals, i am only driven by pleasure, i care little for others, what else was there ... Ah yeah, i dont care for myself either.

Do you really think a guy like that would have posted in this forum in the first place and keep discussing his conflicts ? Do you think he would have even gone to make a test every few months?

Homestly i am amazed how judgmental some of the posts were. We (people with hiv) want society to not judge us but it doesnt seem to be so easy to not judge someone who writes about his desires and problems. After reading the latest posts my first reaction was to just ignore and leave this forum.

For once and for all: i do care about the wellbeing of myself and others around me. Believe it or not. Thats why i am struggling to find a way to balance the moral side with my pleasure seeking side. Am i the only one facing this challenge? I doubt it.

Maybe some of you have been living with hiv for too long and have adapted to it in a time where it was still deadly and having sex was, in comparison a minor issue. But getting infected today doesnt feel to me like "fate will run me over". And i also dont feel like i have to completely change my life now just because i have a chronic disease as my doctor calls it.

What i am trying to find here is help integrating this chronic disease into my life with as little drama as possible. I dont need posts calling me names just because i am honestly posting about my desires and conflicts wiyh this transition.

So to make it clear to anyone:

I wont stop trying to have bareback sex because thats what gives me pleasure (uuu the selfish bitch again) and yes, part of me is a pleasure seeker. How bad of me !

I knew all along, even before you said i dont have any morals, that i still have to find a way to protect my partners UP TO A CERTAIN DEGREE.

I dont and wont feel the need to protect everyone who doesnt want to be protected! What do i mean by that? As an example: If someone goes to a sauna darkroom etc and fucks a stranger without condom do i have to protect him? Or isnt it his own fault? Seriously, guys?

Responsibility has to come from both sides. If someone asks me or even shows me he has doubts about barebacking ... Of course i will refrain from doing so or tell him. And yes i might even post my status on my profiles to leave no doubtabout my status. (Although then you might argue what about the guys who dont read profile texts or dont speak the language good enough etc)

Again: I am trying to find a way to integrate hiv into my life as dramafree and easily as possible. I am not going to change my whole life, character etc about it. First of all i dont think thats necessary because i do have a good set of morals to start with (believe it or not) and second its a chronic disease now, not a death sentence anymore.

Ok, now please maybe we can go on on a less judgmental path, thank you very much.

Seriously guys i dont get it. You tell me i dont have any sense of self worth, i dont have any morals, i am only driven by pleasure, i care little for others, what else was there ... Ah yeah, i dont care for myself either.

Well I for one don't see this as "all or nothing". You are summing up some of the more stern opinions, and making them even more stark. Therefore less realistic and less possible as potential guides.

For my part, I just think your philosophy is incompletely thought out. I see you are putting a lot of thought into this but you are for the moment caught in some circular logic, mostly based on your utter commitment to your own right to have pleasure as you want it... You're going part of the way to seeing sex and communication about sex, as a 2-way exchange. But unwilling to go all the way there.

Everyone has agreed there is plenty of opportunity for anyone HIV+ to go out there and do what he/she wants with no communication, or even lies, because there are plenty of participants. You're wading into the moral questions so I think you should keep struggling with these issues.

You do realise there are ways to increase the number of possible sex partners, and decrease the risk, but some of these routes you categorically refuse.

So the thread is going in circles.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Again: I am trying to find a way to integrate hiv into my life as dramafree and easily as possible. I am not going to change my whole life, character etc about it. First of all i dont think thats necessary because i do have a good set of morals to start with (believe it or not) and second its a chronic disease now, not a death sentence anymore.

Hey Bear,

To start, I am not judging you, rather I am expressing my concern for your health and well-being. You seem to be ignoring the real possibility of your being infected with a nasty STD that could compromise your health and you appear to simply not care. That is one of my concerns, based on how you describe you want to live your life.

You also seem to think that becoming poz is no big deal and you refuse to consider that your life may change in ways that even you have not anticipated. You say you don't want to be responsible for the health of others, but are you aware of any and all HIV transmission laws where you live? The law may impose on you a duty to disclose your status, no matter the circumstances and claiming that you don't want to always disclose, will not protect you from the law.

This is why I said that you seem unwilling to just take it slow and begin to process the changes in your life, because you are now poz. I know from experience that unexpected events will happen to you and if you don't take some time, to develop your own "moral compass" if you will, you may find yourself in serious trouble. It does not mean you can't live your life, as you see fit, but it does require that you understand that not everyone will agree with some of the choices you make and some of those choices may come with consequences that you are unable to avoid.

Nobody here is the morality police, we are just trying to open your eyes to the fact that adjusting to living with HIV is not for the faint of heart and no matter what you may feel, adjusting to being poz is a BIG DEAL. That's why folks are exploring ideas with you, to help you see the magnitude of the changes you may face.

We have no idea on how your journey with HIV will be, we only know what our experience has taught us.

You sound like a rational man, who is coming to grips with being poz and I salute your desire to discuss these issues in detail. The only advice I have is to try and keep your options open and explore the reality of the world in which you live. There are so many facets to being poz and some outside influences, such as transmission laws, can adversely effect what options you may have.

My only goal is to help you understand that there is nothing simple about adjusting to being poz, and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will find your way to navigate your life, in a way that is within your own "moral compass."

I am having good and bad, weak and strong days and i honestly am struggling with this, especially the moral part of disclosing. So sorry if that sounds like going in circles. But reality for me seems different than what i read in this forum. At least in asia, most notably bangkok reality looks like this:

According to a study i read 40% of gay males in bangkok are hiv+. Not only "low income" but also middle class gay men with higher education. So apparently there should be a big market for me. But, saddly ... Since i created new profiles on gayromeo and grindr where i explicitly mention i am poz, no one writes to me anymore. The few who do are negative or think they are and have no idea what poz means or didnt read the profile. If i tell someone most people dont believe me, if i insist i am hiv+, they stop contact.

On the other hand, most people here fuck bare. They all pretend everyone is healthy. Most people dont even ask me if i am safe or not, they just wanna stick their dick in bare. Many look for high fun (using ice or other drugs)

So to be honest i feel like i am the only one trying to be moral and honest here and its frustrating. Since most people fuck bare and pretend everyone is healthy its a no win situation. If i disclose i cant participate anymore although i know the guy would happily fuck any stranger bare and maybe even is hiv+ himself.

As i have this conflict between doing what you guys (and my conscience) tell me is right and what i see in reality. Homestly, in europe a similar thing is going on although much less prominent and there at least people usually ask about the status before fucking bare.

As for the laws you guys keep mentioning ... Is it possible that this is a big issue in the us but less so in europe and especially asia? And then from what i heard it seems to be more a heterosexual issue. I havent heard much about gay men getting sued a lot by exboyfriends or lovers over this issue in europe. So while i am sure there are laws, i wouldnt call this an immediate threat to my future. Maybe i am ignorant about this though, i havent given this much thought.

And then there is this threat about STDs you mentioned. Well i googled and it seems like hep c is actually kinda hard to transmit sexually. But yeah of course it would be an issue. All the other stds are treatable afaik.

What other threats are gonna await me ? Probably i will die alone cause i see my chances of ever getting a boyfriend as very very low (yes u can blame this on my character if u want). They were so low before, now they seem toct even less.

Other than the above (and maybe some job issued?) i am not sure what the really big deal is these days. Maybe meds side effects ...

So far for me, the only big issue i have is a moral one with disclosing to my partners. Doesnt seem to work for me here.

I would say if you are looking to have a relationship, love, a boyfriend, you'll need to be honest about the HIV.

As to the "hows" and processes of getting the sex you want, I've agreed with you that you will find plenty of participants for no questions asked, risky sex.

You realise that both you and your partners are at risk for various STDS. Any negative partner you might have, will be at risk of a transmission of HIV from you. Is your conscience OK with that, or not? You keep referring to what everyone does, but that doesn't answer the question. You can join the ranks of the deluded, the nihilistic, and/or the hedonistic. Yep, its your choice.

As I said in previous posts, I am a bit off the center in this forum as to 100% disclosure to every sex partner. Because I do agree with you there are situations in which one assumes there is an "unwritten agreement". But thats a flimsy agreement, I admit. For example, going to a sex club KNOWN to be for bare fucks, and then taking on all comers... -- so to speak And I've told you of my experiment doing that. A Hep C infection. Fortunately, I am one of the few people who are able to cure that oneself. Most are not so lucky. I also got an STD.

Since you are willing to conceded that there are HIV- people participating in this "no questions asked" risk taking, you have to concede that your butt could thus transmit HIV to someone.

My first recommendation in this thread, is that you go home and get yourself treated for HIV. When you are undetectable, you are far less likely to be a vector of HIV transmission. That is a fact.

Or, you could also consider getting off this merry-go-round of sex and defining some other goals in life - a job?, a career?, financial security, good health, getting a companion, developing your other interests (besides sex) etc etc.

As for Hep C - I am telling you - the risk is out there from straightforward bareback sex between men.... This is news that has not penetrated (so to speak) the HIV+ gay community. But my ID specialist confirms....

But, it is said next year, there will be an Hep C cure on the market. So I guess if bareback sex is the ultimate priority in life, you don't have to worry too much...

Within a year or two, I predict, and I am no expert, a pretty large wave of antibiotic resistant STDs. Sounds like Bangkok is a likely candidate for one of these outbreaks. I suppose you can still get a couple hundred loads in you before then.

As for HIV criminalisation and what you are risking... You have been given the websites to start discovering the local laws.... So you should know by now. Don't rely soley on your "impression of the scene"... You could also just contact a local HIV/AIDS service organisation and ask about HIV criminalisation where you are fucking.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 05:45:56 AM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I have just tested positive on my backpacking trip around the world. A few months ago it was still negative. I talked with my doctor at home (europe) and he said with a cd4 count of 500 i can continue like planned (a few more months) and shouldnt be very worried about my immediate health.

Maybe one way out of the turmoil is to concentrate on something else besides sex. You said this was a "backpacking trip around the world" so isn't there anything else that will give you some energy and good feelings, some enjoyment, BESIDES this hunt for unprotected sex?

It seems to boil down to - if I get raw dick in my butt, I'm Ok... til the next day....

I guess Im an old coot now. In my "backpacking around the world" days I took language classes, went to museums and concerts and checked out all sorts of different "scenes" in the places I went, did sports, explored nature, enjoyed different drugs, etc, etc., all feeding different interests.

Some sexual excitement - sure. Somehow I managed to have mini-love affairs... They were GREAT. Very satisfying. Not saying there's anything wrong with anonymous hook ups, can be great too, i thoroughly enjoyed them of course too. But... as Peggy Lee sings, Is that all there is??

You are very fortunate to have the freedom and opportunity. So all this free time, money to spare. Are you wasting your days on a hunt for sex that has now become unsatisfying sex?? Or, maybe that's just my inaccurate perception...

We all understood that you said you've had sexual success and sexual validation in Asia. Hey, that's important. But HIV has thrown a wrench into that, no matter how much you want to deny it, to continue getting that validation... Now, what will the sexual exchange be based on: lies, delusions, risks.....?? If so, not very validating, in the end.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 07:04:10 AM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I wanna do the right thing but yeah i also a hedonistic bitch ... Not easy to be both at the same time. Yesterday i had bb sex without disclosing. It was with a guy who told me he was high and already fucked 4 times since last night and was still horny and couldnt sleep (bec of the drug). I asked him if he wasnt scared about hiv or any other std and he said "not much". And then i was thinking if he doesnt fuck me, he will fuck someone else. Why should i be the moral guy who passes on the chance to get fucked by a hot guy (and he was hot) when he clearly doesnt care?

Afterwards i did feel a bit guilty though. I know people here (and elsewhere) will judge me again.

I am still saying to myself that even without meds the risk for the top is very low but maybe thats just rationalisation like i did before with the "pulling out" as prevention.

I will get treatment next year, just cant go home now, i already have travel plans for the next months that would be too expensive to cancel.

The bigger question of why i have chosen sex as a hobby (like one of my friends calls it) and why i dont do something better with my life is unclear to me. Maybe i am indeed just another hedonistic egoistic unnecessary bitch on this earth ...

Of course i did more than just have sex on my trips around the world. I did a lot of trips, saw lots of amazing things and met a few nice people i am friends with now (although sex was the motivation to meet them)

For some reason it is a lot easier for me to meet people via sex than via any other way. Sex is like a door opener for friendship for me, cant really explain it. And travelling alone can be pretty lonely if you are not a partyboy and dont get to know people easily.

Also, as i mentioned already, i really enjoyed the interest i suddenly got from sometimes very beautiful guys. Maybe i got addicted to this sexual attention, people suddenly calling me handsome, beautiful, sexy and wanting to fuck me. That hardly ever happened to me in europe where everyone goes for the young, trained boy next door.

I know in the long run i have to do something else with my life, i do feel the emptyness if i am not busy fucking around. I just dont know what i wanna do with my life really ....

Why should i be the moral guy who passes on the chance to get fucked by a hot guy (and he was hot) when he clearly doesnt care?

Afterwards i did feel a bit guilty though.

One question at a time. You answered this one. Because it doesn't feel right to you and therefore the hottest guy in the world screwing you isn't adding to your feeling of contentment and self worth... Nor your respect for your own conscience. It really is that simple.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

1) I am still saying to myself that even without meds the risk for the top is very low but maybe thats just rationalisation like i did before with the "pulling out" as prevention.

2) I will get treatment next year, just cant go home now, i already have travel plans for the next months that would be too expensive to cancel.

1) Your butt is a vector for HIV transmission. Don't delude yourself.

2) This is deeply immoral. Continuing to be a public health risk, because you want to avoid a economic cost to yourself, and an annoying change in plans. YOU COULD EASILY COMPROMISE and simply ask the top to use condoms, you realise... And still continue your "backpacking trip" without presenting a public health risk.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Well this obliterates somewhat my advice on the existential questions, though not totally.

In fact you are doing sexual tourism and at your age and with your resources, and knowledge base, its with a bit of colonialist immorality. As your pleasure seems to be more important than protecting people you admit are, in some cases, deluded and/or ignorant about HIV and transmission.

Is meth involved on your side, as well?? If so, this may very well be a pretty basic self-esteem challenge. Probably won't be solved through sexual tourism, in fact may get worse...

I will PM you tomorrow, when I have more time, some HORRID stories of some mature gay guys who continued to seek validation through sex and particularly sex with men they considered handsome, hot, "valuable". You can imagine the costs and complicated relationships and they only got higher and more complicated and deadly as the years accumulated.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Had sex with 2 guys yesterday, i only wrote about the high fun guy who fucked me bb.I didnt mention the second guy who said to me he doesnt have a condom and if i am ok with bare sex. I had to think a few min but then i put a condom in his hand and said better be safe.

It all depends on how i perceive my partner to be. The first guy appeared to me like he was risking it without caring and then i thought why should i be moral and nice and miss my fun and he gets hiv from the next guy or is positive already anyway. Can you understand that chain of thoughts?

The second guy appeared like he was thinking about condoms or wasnt sur. he would still have risked it but i felt much more responsible to protect him than the first guy so i didnt have any fun (didnt enjoy the fuck) but i was glad afterwards that i protected him.

Its not always soooo easy. Feeling guilty i did with the first guy too but i also thought that he was kinda asking for it. With the second guy i would have really felt guilty a lot.

As for your last post: never used any kind of drugs. No meth, ice or even poppers. Hate that stuff.

And i dont see myself as a sex tourist. A sex tourist exploits people (mostly kids) for little money and his own pleasure. I never ever had sex for money or sex with minors anywhere! Also up until my hiv test a few weeks ago i didnt fee like i am harming anyone by having sex with them. On the contrary i had lots of emotionally and sexually satisfying sex with guys who wanted to have sex with me. I actually have the habit of not writing anyone for sex. The guys were messaging me instead and were sometimes very persistent in meeting me. So no, i definitely dont feel like being a sextourist AT ALL.

Well if you call anyone who travels and has sex on his travels a sex tourist then most gay guys are. And then thats ok with me. I just think a sex tourist in a sense like most people will understand it is different.

Can someone please tell me the relevance of this thread in ' I just tested Poz'. For a lot of people who are still coming to terms with their diagnosis, this thread is bordering on very offensive. Many people on here picked up H.I.V from people who didn't disclose their status.

To btmbear, there are forums out there where people stealth poz people because the don't use condoms and don't disclose their status, their opinion is " well it's their fault" because it's feel better and they get off at it, I really don't think this is the place for it.

Can someone please tell me the relevance of this thread in ' I just tested Poz'. For a lot of people who are still coming to terms with their diagnosis, this thread is bordering on very offensive. Many people on here picked up H.I.V from people who didn't disclose their status.

To btmbear, there are forums out there where people stealth poz people because the don't use condoms and don't disclose their status, their opinion is " well it's their fault" because it's feel better and they get off at it, I really don't think this is the place for it.

Hey Curious,

The relevance of this thread is that many newly poz folks are faced with these issues, regarding disclosure and these are necessary discussions. The OP is being honest in expressing his feelings and though you may not agree with them, it is part of HIS process of adjusting to his new status. It also provides members the opportunity to explore their own feelings about the subject, as well as it may convince some folks to change the way they disclose their status to others.

With few exceptions, we do not censor content on this site, because no matter what the subject matter, there is always something to be learned from every thread.