North Korea is an interesting option for China; in that North Korea is more useful for China in an attempt to break the South Korea-US alliance. With Trump's insanity, the South Korean-US alliance is relatively frayed, and it's possible that South Korea can claim its own sovereignty and work towards an open foreign policy.

NK wants to solve the Korean problem more urgently than China that has many other considerations but both are aware that NK is not the reason for US to maintain suzerainty over and forces in SK. The reason is that US want armed forces near China. So both China and NK want SK to declare independence and drive out US forces. In that consideration the military might of NK is unimportant to SK. It is the economic and military might of US that has to be resisted as well as the role of US in SK corruption.

During the Imjin War (Japanese invasions of Korea), the Ming Chinese Emperor Wanli would not even agree to start peaceful process on the fate of Korean peninsula or even negotiate with Toyotomi Hideyoshi until all Japanese forces withdrew completely from the Korean peninsula.

So as early as the 16th century, the Chinese was calling for the evacuation of all foreign troops from Korean soil as a precondition for peaceful settlement of Korea, even going as far as intervening on Korea's behalf to eject it (Emperor Wanli threatened an invasion force of 400,000, which is mammoth in the 16th century)

Therefore, we should not underestimate the weight of China's words behind the Sino-DPRK 1961 MDT, seeing as it has not been terminated by China in 2005 (after NPT withdrawal), 2010 (after 2 nuke tests), and 2015 (after 3 nuke tests). These past 3 intervals where China could have invoked the termination of Sino-DPRK 1961 with 1 year of advance notice has not come to pass, due to the indispensable geopolitical value NK.

Registered Member

It has just expired and no extension in sight. SK is on its own if there is another 1998 and/or 2008. Pretty much says all about China's position on the peninsula (if someone still try to twist China's stance by denial and pretending deaf).

Registered Member

During the Imjin War (Japanese invasions of Korea), the Ming Chinese Emperor Wanli would not even agree to start peaceful process on the fate of Korean peninsula or even negotiate with Toyotomi Hideyoshi until all Japanese forces withdrew completely from the Korean peninsula.

So as early as the 16th century, the Chinese was calling for the evacuation of all foreign troops from Korean soil as a precondition for peaceful settlement of Korea, even going as far as intervening on Korea's behalf to eject it (Emperor Wanli threatened an invasion force of 400,000, which is mammoth in the 16th century)

Therefore, we should not underestimate the weight of China's words behind the Sino-DPRK 1961 MDT, seeing as it has not been terminated by China in 2005 (after NPT withdrawal), 2010 (after 2 nuke tests), and 2015 (after 3 nuke tests). These past 3 intervals where China could have invoked the termination of Sino-DPRK 1961 with 1 year of advance notice has not come to pass, due to the indispensable geopolitical value NK.

Absolutely agreed.

Tang 663

Ming 1592

Qing 1897

PRC 1950

How many times does it need to take to wake up people who believes that China should dump NK? I hope it is enough if people think by themselves.

How many times does it need for people to stop deceiving Chinese to dump NK? I believe forever because deception is intentional.

How could anybody still throwing around "evil Kim, dictator or tyrant" as an argument to call on China to stand on their side against NK when China has saved Korea or part of it from powers out from the sea, regardless Korea being aKingdom or Republic? China is not religious nor ideological, Kim being "dictator" is non of China's business, Kim's attempt of Nukes is not caused by China. But who (afterwards) stands on the south bank of Yalu river is our business.

A piece of advice to everyone, don't treat China's IQ and history lessons as a 4 year-old, it will only make things worse for everybody.

Not too mention it is sacrilege to the memory of 200,000 Chinese who give up their life only to have S Korea controlling the North? Even though I dislike fatty Kim for his cruelty a reprehensible and disgusting person. But North Korea is the the dagger that point to hard land of China .Giving up this buffer only invite problem in the future That is how Japan invade China through north Korea.

Unless S Korea is neutral and friendly to China there is no way China will consent of united Korea under S Korea

It has just expired and no extension in sight. SK is on its own if there is another 1998 and/or 2008. Pretty much says all about China's position on the peninsula (if someone still try to twist China's stance by denial and pretending deaf).

View attachment upload_2017-10-13_11-17-21.gif
Ties between China and South Korea have soured over the deployment of the powerful US weapon in the South -- aimed at guarding against North Korea's missile threats but viewed by Beijing as a threat to its own security. (Photo: AFP/Jung Yeon-Je)
13 Oct 2017 02:40PMShare this content
SEOUL: South Korea and China have renewed a US$56 billion currency swap deal, Seoul said Friday (Oct 13), despite tensions over the controversial deployment of a US anti-missile system in the South.

There had been fears the diplomatic row would threaten the major economic agreement that expired on Tuesday, but the central Bank of Korea said it has been extended for another three years.

Ties between the two Asian neighbours have soured over the deployment of the powerful US weapon in the South - aimed at guarding against North Korea's missile threats but viewed by Beijing as a threat to its own security.

The deal, seen as a financial safety net to help stabilise the South Korean won, accounts for around half of the South's entire currency swap deals. It was first signed in 2009 and has been renewed several times.

"The extended agreement took effect as of Oct 11, so the deal was extended without a single day of disruption," the central Bank of Korea Lee Ju-Yeol told reporters.

Seoul announced last month it would deploy more of the Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) systems after the North's sixth nuclear test and a series of missile launches that sparked global alarm.

Two launchers are already operational and since late last year China -- the South's top trading partner -- has taken a series of measures against South Korean businesses, seen by Seoul as unofficial economic retaliation.

Seems China does not lose its cool or act on emotions. Denying this deal to SK would inflict significant pain on their economy but it would also reduce international use of RMB and could drive SK to seek economic safety with the US. Refusing them an extension would feel really good right now, but Beijing has decided that letting your anger get in the way of your judgement would be a long-term mistake, and China's rise is not made of those.

In other news, Trump's angry at UNESCO so he cancels America's membership LOL

View attachment 42515
Ties between China and South Korea have soured over the deployment of the powerful US weapon in the South -- aimed at guarding against North Korea's missile threats but viewed by Beijing as a threat to its own security. (Photo: AFP/Jung Yeon-Je)
13 Oct 2017 02:40PMShare this content
SEOUL: South Korea and China have renewed a US$56 billion currency swap deal, Seoul said Friday (Oct 13), despite tensions over the controversial deployment of a US anti-missile system in the South.

There had been fears the diplomatic row would threaten the major economic agreement that expired on Tuesday, but the central Bank of Korea said it has been extended for another three years.

Ties between the two Asian neighbours have soured over the deployment of the powerful US weapon in the South - aimed at guarding against North Korea's missile threats but viewed by Beijing as a threat to its own security.

The deal, seen as a financial safety net to help stabilise the South Korean won, accounts for around half of the South's entire currency swap deals. It was first signed in 2009 and has been renewed several times.

"The extended agreement took effect as of Oct 11, so the deal was extended without a single day of disruption," the central Bank of Korea Lee Ju-Yeol told reporters.

Seoul announced last month it would deploy more of the Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) systems after the North's sixth nuclear test and a series of missile launches that sparked global alarm.

Two launchers are already operational and since late last year China -- the South's top trading partner -- has taken a series of measures against South Korean businesses, seen by Seoul as unofficial economic retaliation.

Seems China does not lose its cool or act on emotions. Denying this deal to SK would inflict significant pain on their economy but it would also reduce international use of RMB and could drive SK to seek economic safety with the US. Refusing them an extension would feel really good right now, but Beijing has decided that letting your anger get in the way of your judgement would be a long-term mistake, and China's rise is not made of those.

In other news, Trump's angry at UNESCO so he cancels America's membership LOL

Just read that myself few hours ago.

The threat only lasted for few hours. It looks like a warning rather than real hit. It is like loading the gun then unloading without fire it. China let the previous agreement to expire (void) then signed a new one, rather than extend the previous one before it became void, that is loading the gun without firing.

Their is a difference though, the previous agreement was a eight-year long, the new one is three-year long. A pattern we have seen between mainland and Taiwan, "听其言，观其行"/"walk and see". It is worth to note that the three year length is within president Moon's 5 years term, a sign of "walk and see".

P.S. so far PBOC or Chinese MoF is not available for confirmation, all reports are from SK side. Not saying the deal is not there, just telling the Chinese unpleasant altitude.

Registered Member

Deng Xiaoping's 1975 quote was not about US or USSR monopoly on nukes... more on Indian monopoly of nukes on South Asian subcontinent. The Deng Xiaoping quote was dated in 1975, just one (1) year after India's first detonation of nukes in 1974, and 4 year after Pakistan's dismemberment in the civil war and Pakistan's loss in Indo-Pakistani War of 1971.

Deng Xiaoping allegedly granted help to Pakistani nuclear program in 1982 to offset India's first nuke test in 1974. Pakistan was recieving Chinese nuclear scientist exchanges as early as 1976.

So in China's calculations, if there is a nuclear monopoly in South Asia, then arming Pakistan with nukes is reasonable to check it's joint chief geopolitical rival (India).

So it's reasonable in China's calculation that if there is monopoly on high-tech (non-nuclear) conventional weapons on Korean peninsula (SK) , then accepting NK nukes will prove an balance of power stabilizer to SK's overwhelming tech advantage, and US overwhelming tactical nuke advantage.

That is your opinion, That is not the opinion of the Chinese President.

This is what Chinese President Xi Jinping said to the South Korean President Moon Jae-in during the G20 summit:

This suggests that even if NK launches an ICBM or performs a nuke test, Beijing will do little to hurt the alliance. Xi Jinping basically told South Korean President that China would never abandon North Korea and never accept a pro-US unified Korea on her doorsteps despite nuke and ICBM tests.

See above quotation,

Chinese President Xi Jinping said the fundamental "blood alliance" relationship hasn't changed despite nuke and ICBM tests, and this wasn't to a domestic audience, it was to the Top #1 leader of South Korea, Moon Jae-in in a bilateral face-to-face meeting.

The policy implications of telling SK President of the "Blood alliance" in his face cannot be underestimated, since word choice is highly symbolic and important in Chinese diplomatic circles.

I have read that quotation, it is SK's words, not from Chinese media report or directly from China's Minister of Foreign Affairs Wang Yi or Xi himself. That is all I am saying, I have close to zero confidence to SK's media, I only believe it when Xi or Wang is quoted by CCTV 19:00 news or People's daily.

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