Guest Editor, Kent from PocketFactory, brings up an interesting opinion piece about buying a new PDA in today's market. Have PDA's as we know them lost that enthusiasm that created such aesthetic beauties as the Palm V? Read on for more.

RE: One exception

Yes, the Zodiac is very cool, and agree with the love it or leave it opinions. I would get it myself, but it's not quite business oriented!

I don't think the V was the last one though... the M515 was very similar in form factor and was a very good value for a Dragonball device. I'm also biased towards the T3, not as sexy as the V, but much cooler based on the reactions I get; still causes meeting disruptions when I snick open to full screen and snap it onto the UT keyboard. Usually takes a few minutes to get the meeting back on topic.

I mourn the loss of design enthusiasm, can we use the T5 as the tombstone?

RE: One exception

Agreed. A large, unadorned, plain looking tombstone is the T5. And yeah, I think the slider design of the T|T, T2, and T3 had something special. Great form factor not duplicated anywhere else. Maybe not as "sexy" as the V's and m5xx's (had both), but definitely something that stood out (in a good way) when it came out and remains unique.

RE: One exception

PDA purchasing was very exciting for me recently.... T3 or Zod2... i sprung for the T3. A choice betw 2 very capable PDAs was what made it exciting, and not 2 that u were forced to pick b/c pOS has no other better choices while u're still not willing to give up pOS

Part of a bigger trend?

I just wonder if the lack of "inspired design" is more a part of the death of the PDA as we know it. I'm on my 4th Palm device (a V, Vx, m505, and now a T|T2) and it's becoming pretty obvious to me that the PDA as we know it as an unconnected device is a dying breed. This could just be me or a subset of PDA users, but it seems like the direction is clearly towards Treo-like devices, i.e. converged cellular phone, PDA, pager, etc. And not just on the Palm side, but the Pocket PC world, too. I look at the new T|T5 and just don't think it offers much more than my T|T2. I think inspired design requires just what the name implies, inspiration, and there isn't anything inspiring left in the "traditional" PDA. Look to the Treo platform for inspiration.

RE: Part of a bigger trend?

I don't quite understand how, on one hand, you can say that the PDA is a dying breed, but on the other hand you tell us to look at the Treo? The Treo IS a PDA. Plain and simple. I cannot understand why people categorize the Treo as something other than a PDA?

RE: Part of a bigger trend?

I agree.. The buzz which use to follow the PDA world has some how gotten lost. Their appeal just doesn't seem the same to the average folk and I don't know if design is all to blame.

In my line of work I see alot of Treo's and use them. I can honestly say the Treo is less of a PDA for what the Palm OS can do and has traditionaly done in the past for "real PDA users" than being just a pretty cool smartphone to the average and 1st time users of the Treo and it's OS (and I deal with hundreds of customers who use Treos). Even in my office where there's about 15 of use who use the Treo, I'd say about 14 of them barely use the Treo beyond, a phone, checking email, and surfing the internet. Now I don't know about you but that's pretty sad and in all reality doesn't even deserve to use the Palm OS if that's all people are going to do with the Treo. Any half decent smart phone could do the same and I think palmOne needs to Wake up and realize this. What is the Treo if it's not for the OS 1st? I think current PDA OEMs need to look to other markets and make the Palm OS work those areas as well if they are going to abandon standalone PDAs.

T3,

In my opinion, the most beautiful and elegant PDA was the T3, after Palm V.

The only official explanation I read regarding why they gave up the design is, the EX-CEO of Palmone thought, people didn't realise it could be stretched when they saw it on the shelves. Unbelievable isn't it?

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

Yes, Yes. "Just give me one more feature than currently offered. I swear I'll be happy forever."

New uses will drive new forms and the technology will stay on par with the uses. Until people start using PDAs in some significantly different way they will continue to look the same--unless you subscribe to the General Motors philosophy of styling your way to sales. It worked well until the 80s, didn't it?

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

> The Palm apologists are the biggest fools second only to shareholders.

That's an interesting observation.

In case you hadn't noticed this is a 'Palminfocenter' - a website run BY Palm enthusiasts FOR Palm enthusiasts. Yet, you come here and use the word 'apologists' like it's some sort of pejorative. Well it isn't, not here.

All you have succeeded at doing is insulting us all, yet again.

I hope you will realise someday that insults are not generally productive when practicing the art of advocacy.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

I really like the 160MB internal memory on the T5. The only improvement I would really make, and that being temporary until the get the NVFS down right, is to make the "main" 64MB of memory actual RAM. Once they get the NVFS thing figured out, though, I don't think it will be necessary. Just give me a good, large heap though.

_________________Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

The T5 is a piece of garbage. I'd rather have 16MB or ***REAL*** Memory than that GARBAGE FRIGGIN CRAP SHIIIIT SHIIT FLASH SHIIT RAM CRAP GARBGAGE SHIIT THAT THOSE MOOTHA FUUCKSA put on us wit the T5. Unless one of you MOFOs had a T5 or T650, you know not what the FUUUCK i talk about.

(another straight ketel dirty martni - 3 olives plz)

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

RE: F Design! Give me FUNCTION!

Bigger Clipboard: going beyond 64Kb will require a change to the PalmOS clipboard API, so we'll probably see larger clipboard like HiRes+ support, requiring an updated version of 3rd-party software to make use of it.

No, it is the industry maturing

"Ok cowboys, it is time to leave this town, they are starting to pave the roads and have regular sheriff patrols. This is not the frontier anymore." -- Anonymous

What we are seeing it not a decline but a maturing of the business. The "turbo geeks" that proliferate this site are quickly becoming the minority voice in Palm OS product determination.

You don't like it, well you take a hard look and put your Palm devices in a nice box that you put in the attic next to the Commodore-64, Kaypro and Osborne you have there. Palm execs don't listen to you much anymore.

While you all hate the T5, it is selling quite well. You will not see it at a local geek fest, you will see it in real world use. Microsoft is still not getting it right and frankly, they will cut this line loose when the first wave of last recession hits their internal coffers. [Gekko and Voice, bring it on!]

Look at that clueless user that taps and syncs their notes and photos. That is the new face of the Palm community. Why were hacks not supported in OS5? Because losers like you were the only ones that cared for them. The rest of the real world had more to do on a Saturday night than manage multiple HackMaster configurations.

And when there is another high-tech frontier to trailblaze, I'll be in that territory faster than you think. In the meantime, I'm having fun taking bids on the land claims that I settled and grew for some city slicker to pay top dollar for as I ride into the sunset.

BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve...

What we are seeing it not a decline but a maturing of the business. The "turbo geeks" that proliferate this site are quickly becoming the minority voice in Palm OS product determination.

You don't like it, well you take a hard look and put your Palm devices in a nice box that you put in the attic next to the Commodore-64, Kaypro and Osborne you have there. Palm execs don't listen to you much anymore.

While you all hate the T5, it is selling quite well. You will not see it at a local geek fest, you will see it in real world use. Microsoft is still not getting it right and frankly, they will cut this line loose when the first wave of last recession hits their internal coffers. [Gekko and Voice, bring it on!]

Look at that clueless user that taps and syncs their notes and photos. That is the new face of the Palm community. Why were hacks not supported in OS5? Because losers like you were the only ones that cared for them. The rest of the real world had more to do on a Saturday night than manage multiple HackMaster configurations.

BubbaSteve, a few corrections to your weak (even for you) post:

What we are seeing is not a maturing of the business but a withering of a fad. A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Do you really think the T"5" is selling well?

You are correct in implying that Palm should not cater to the narrow interests of power users. EXCEPT when those interests include features that would be useful to a significant number of mainstream users. Not many companies that keep their sights low and fail to innovate survive for very long in a tech industry. Especially not in niche, non-commodity, shrinking market spaces. If Palm wanted to do the snake oil salesman act, they should have paid a lot more attention to haw Apple does it, including hiring Apple's industrial designers and their marketing company. Sleazy Steve Jobs could (easily) manage to sell ice to Eskimos...

BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve, BubbaSteve...

What we are seeing it not a decline but a maturing of the business. The "turbo geeks" that proliferate this site are quickly becoming the minority voice in Palm OS product determination.

You don't like it, well you take a hard look and put your Palm devices in a nice box that you put in the attic next to the Commodore-64, Kaypro and Osborne you have there. Palm execs don't listen to you much anymore.

While you all hate the T5, it is selling quite well. You will not see it at a local geek fest, you will see it in real world use. Microsoft is still not getting it right and frankly, they will cut this line loose when the first wave of last recession hits their internal coffers. [Gekko and Voice, bring it on!]

Look at that clueless user that taps and syncs their notes and photos. That is the new face of the Palm community. Why were hacks not supported in OS5? Because losers like you were the only ones that cared for them. The rest of the real world had more to do on a Saturday night than manage multiple HackMaster configurations.

BubbaSteve, a few corrections to your weak (even for you) post:

What we are seeing is not a maturing of the business but a withering of a fad. A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Do you really think the T"5" is selling well?

You are correct in implying that Palm should not cater to the narrow interests of power users. EXCEPT when those interests include features that would be useful to a significant number of mainstream users. Not many companies that keep their sights low and fail to innovate survive for very long in a tech industry. Especially not in niche, non-commodity, shrinking market spaces. If Palm wanted to do the snake oil salesman act, they should have paid a lot more attention to haw Apple does it, including hiring Apple's industrial designers and their marketing company. Sleazy Steve Jobs could (easily) manage to sell ice to Eskimos...

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

RhinoNerd - Stop blowing smoke up everyone's ass with your silly quotes and predictions. The difference between you and I is that you're some kind of nerd who treats this shiit like some kind of religion and I could care less which company "wins" while you seem to be in love with your Palm (pun intended) - I just want this company to improve its products since I've already got time and money invested in the platform and would actually prefer to remain a Palm customer. I'm in sales with 3,000+ contacts and if that makes me a power user than so be it. Palm is sitting on the ball and at this point it looks like they're going to lose the game - like it or not. Don't make this shiit personal.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

> A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Perhaps. But this company is creative enough to produce units which sell at a profit - which means that their palmpilots are sufficiently appealing to people who are willing to hand over their wages for them.

Compare that to the performance of that epitome of creativity ... that paragon of innovation ... Sony ... who produced unsuccessful products. The buying public had a very simple message for Sony: take your creativity and shove it!

So you think Palm's PDAs are profitable?

> A fad from a company not creative enough to develop its core product to the point that it could sell because of its indispensible FUNCTIONALITY rather than its fleeting FASHION.

Perhaps. But this company is creative enough to produce units which sell at a profit - which means that their palmpilots are sufficiently appealing to people who are willing to hand over their wages for them.

Compare that to the performance of that epitome of creativity ... that paragon of innovation ... Sony ... who produced unsuccessful products. The buying public had a very simple message for Sony: take your creativity and shove it!

Let's consider two business plans for a minute:

Company A is first to market with a highly profitable, solid, functional design. Instead of investing in R + D and pushing the envelope, they concentrate on maximizing short term profits by cutting costs, slashing production quality and issuing one incremental upgrade after another. Arguably a wise strategy if (a) you're the only game in town and (b) the market keeps booming.

Then there's Company B who's arrives later on the market. They burn through a ton of cash, creating + releasing around 20 different models within three years. Each model experiments with hardware designs and many models sport custom OS upgrades. Several models completely miss the mark, some have only one or two decent ideas, but the feedback rolls in and ideas from the R + D lab sink or swim based on their own merit once they're out on their own in the real world. Arguably a wise strategy if you (a) have a good R + D department, (b) are looking for long term profitability (c) envision the future of PDAs as more than just PIM devices and (d) the market keeps booming.

But guess what? The market doesn't keep booming. In that case, PDAs that have capabilities beyond mere PIM seem to be the way to go. How likely is it that Company A would be able to adapt and produce a design that takes PDAs to the next stage? Simple. They can't. Company B, on the other hand already has prototyped - or even sold - the kind of devices that could define the PDA of the future: PIM/video player/camcorder/digital camera/watch/alarm clock/MP3 player/wireless internet/desktop file storage + viewer/voice recorder/micro laptop/universal remote/email/gaming console/etc.

Yes, Sony probably lost a hell of a lot of $$$ on its PDA sales department. But as I stated before in my article here (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=7519), Sony pulled out just when they were starting to get everything right. Furthermore, Palm's PDAs have lost the company tens of millions in the past three years. Treo sales are Palm's only decent money maker. And that could easily disappear if a competitor comes out with another phone. (Any phone as long as it runs PalmOS and isn't as poorly built as the Treos.) Or if PalmOS facilitates abusing cell networks and the carriers get skittish. Great business model, Company A!

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

4 Reasons that NONE of the 20+ PDAs/Smartphones I have owned were ever a SONY:

1) Memorystick has always been a proprietary disaster

2) SONY's track record of NOT standing behind their products, and leading the industry toward dropping consumer electric warranties down to 90 days.

3) Designing for style rather than usability (compare their hardware buttons to any other manufacturer and you'll get my drift).

4) TOO MANY MODELS with little difference between them to care.

SONY pushed the envelope of the PDA in many ways, but their core incompetency at the basics is what killed them. There's a reason the Ipod is in everyone's hands and the Walkman is a memory from 25 years ago... Apple was free to design a usable MP3 player, SONY owned too many things and was conflicted everywhere it turned (SONY music won't let them use MP3's without ATRAC mucking it up, the Minidisc division wanted it to sell Minidiscs, etc).

PalmOne is heading in the same direction in many ways- downsizing the warranties, dumbing down and outsourcing the support, selling "flashy" Palms that sell once, break, and collect dust in a drawer while the owners go back to their daytimer... IMHO for $400-600 dollars PalmOne should give me- someone who has consistently purchased Palms- MUCH better quality and specifications than the crappy T5s and Treo 650s. Their short-term strategy of selling garbage that's *flashy* but underpowered as a truly usable device will bite them in the long term. 16MB of usable RAM in the Treo 650, and the unlocked version is $700.00? Absolutely ridiculous.

You can sell a lot of people with clever and colorful advertising ONCE. But if you want to make another sale after they realize how badly they were suckered on that last $600 (or $700 now for the unlocked Treo), you will pay dearly (as PalmOne is beginning to find out...).

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

I think I have proven my point here. PDAs in some form are here to stay. Gekko, if all you do is sales, I can see you exagerating your assests to claim you are worth over a million -- a house on the coast that you can't liquidate at market value doesn't count.

I'm still convinced that this is maturing of the industry. And with that "maturing" comes cycling through MBAs types 'til you realize the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

McDonalds came back, Apple came back and that was done by getting back to the basics that made them successful and not being some petri dish of a liberal/socialist MBA manager type. PalmSource will too quicker then you guys think.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

RE: No, it is the industry imploding

I guess that means that you agree that Sony was producing the sort of palmpilots which most users did not want to buy. Have I misunderstood you point, again?

When did you sustain the head injury?

Sony sold PDAs that tended to cost more than Palms. Those who know quality tend to buy CLIEs. Newbies buy Palms. Newbies, casual users and those with limited disposeable make up the bulk of the PDA market.

Sony did pull a fast one by conducting what amounts to a four year, 20 model beta test, while charging users for the privilege of tyring those "beta" CLIEs.

2) Who cares if that's true or not? Buy a quality PDA (CLIE) and it doesn't matter. I've never had a single CLIE break on me in four years of heavy use. Enjoy your 90 day Tungsten E warranty. You'll be needing it...

3) The S300/320/360 and their jogwheels + external media handling redefined usability. The TH55 was an experiment that (I feel) failed, but at least it was a new attempt to push the envelope. The UX 50 remains the most impressive PDA design ever released. What has Palm given us? Tungstens with Decomposing Digitizers and crappy build quality. Thanks, but no thanks.

4) You never bought a CLIE because Sony released "too many models"? That really makes a lot of sense. Wow. No choice is always better than several choices, right? Are you living in a communist country, perchance? How sad.

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

2) Who cares if that's true or not? Buy a quality PDA (CLIE) and it doesn't matter. I've never had a single CLIE break on me in four years of heavy use. Enjoy your 90 day Tungsten E warranty. You'll be needing it...

3) The S300/320/360 and their jogwheels + external media handling redefined usability. The TH55 was an experiment that (I feel) failed, but at least it was a new attempt to push the envelope. The UX 50 remains the most impressive PDA design ever released. What has Palm given us? Tungstens with Decomposing Digitizers and crappy build quality. Thanks, but no thanks.

4) You never bought a CLIE because Sony released "too many models"? That really makes a lot of sense. Wow. No choice is always better than several choices, right? Are you living in a communist country, perchance? How sad.=================

Nobody probably wants to read why I never purchased a sony... but hey...

1.. MAIN reason was size... cant keep it in my pocket...every single day....

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

I'm not answering that on a public forum for several reasons. Again, if you don't know who I am, you won't know. Fraud? Talk for yourself with your "millions" and "thousands" of customers. No one sales guy can manage such a list without a staff they employ.

Hey Rhino FRAUD

Hey Rhino FRAUD - I never said "millionS' plural - I saild "million" - singular. and yes - one saleaman can handle multi-thousand customers - and yes I have admin help you piece of trash. YOU are the FRAUD - not me. You're a NOBODY. If you were , you'd realize my $1M is nothing.

3. cost... sony had always = more money and for features that were not really needed i.e. camera etc..

Its interesting how people uese their devices PDA or Mobile Phones etc..

One thing that should happen is for PALM PDA to have mobile phone capabilities but keep T3 T5 (large (vga) screen) design and use a bluetooth headset for talking... its a simple solution..

Its not a phone but a PDA... with all the advantages of a pda... yet its a phone that can be used all the time...

- The CLIE UX50 is one of the most pocketable PDAs ever built. No case needed and it's also as rugged as hell. Even "back in the day" Sony's first PalmOS PDA - the CLIE S300 - was more pocketable than Palm's competing models.

- Memory Stick is definitely overpriced, but I was willing to pay the price to get the best PDA hardware possible. I'd rather pay an extra $50 on an expansion card and use a high quality TH55 or UX50 than buy a self-destructing Tungsten or Zire just so I can get cheaper SD cards. It's a matter of priorities.

- Sony greater cost buys you both more features and MUCH better quality. The features may or may not matter to you, but most people choose quality if they can afford it.

- Adding cellphone radios is how traditional PDAs will survive. This change is both inevitable and long overdue.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

RE: No, it is the industry maturing

Gekko, I finally figured it out. You are one of thoes "network marketing" types like AmWay. You have "millions" in product in a central warehouse that you get sales from and your "thousands" of customers is a downline.

Woohoo!! That is it. Ok, you can sell me laundry detergent while I geek off and download porn in my nowhere IT job. We are both "rich." ;-)

RE: Wet clay can be sexy

Exception 2

First of all: Many thanks for the great article Kent!!! Discussing in german Palm forums i really feared i am the only one, who dislikes the TT5 design (which is far away from ugly, but ...) I think there is another exception: The Garmin iQue 3600a. What i have seen so far is really what i like: Stylish, elegant and discreet design usually combined with superb built quality. Wow. I really hope, somebody posts a review and that this time battery life is better. I really don't understand why PalmOne is going for this nasty battle: "Yes we can make the cheapest handhelds on the market". I am really wondering if managers think this is good strategy. The cheapest thing you can get is: NONE. And this will happen with PalmOne if they continue. I really need some Wow and the last time i had was with my beloved UX50. Unfortunately Sony made so many mistakes (usability) and left the PDA market, that i ebay'd it. And it is maybe hard to imagine, but PalmOne listen now: I would spend a 600 Euro's or even more (maybe even 800), if you give me a Tablet PalmOS PDA with VGA screen, Wifi & BT (+ keyboard would be nice) and battery life 10hours+. That's everything i want to have!Cheers *Andreas

RE: Exception 2

loriot said << i really feared i am the only one, who dislikes the TT5 design>>

You obviously have not been around here much for the past few months. When "true" rumors came out on the real T5, I boldly proclaimed that "PalmOne might be stupid, but their not suicidal". How wrong I was.

Although, P1 is surviving on Treos and the PDA is becoming a leftover in profit terms. Either serve the masses and survive or please the geeks and die, I guess. Then again ... a PalmOne Treo iPod with 40GB mini-hardrive, VGA, GSM-EDGE, WiFi and BT wireless earphones could rock the world right now.

RE: Exception 2

Since this has turned into the self-denunciation thread, let me add that when someone PhotoShopped a TT to give it a 320x480 screen, I lashed into him by saying such a beast simply could never exist and that the entire slider design with such a screen was just dumb. (Or even worse words to that effect!)

Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

Looking at today's offerings from PalmOne, it's not hard to see why the PDA industry has lost much of the enthusiasm that marked its early days. Palm PDAs have lost the classic look and feel that set them apart from other competing products on the market, particularly the Palm V form factor.

Take the Tungsten T5 for example. Though a decent looking product compared to other PDAs sitting on store shelves, it's just another nameless face in the crowd. The Tungsten line as a whole lacks the elegance that drove so many consumers and business professionals to covet the original Palm V, which wasn’t just a PDA..it was a status symbol.

Buying a PDA today is as boring as buying a pair of socks. The value proposition of mobile devices has certainly increased exponentially with introduction of new features, and we get far more bang for our buck now than ever before. But aesthetics have suffered dramatically as the PDA market has become commoditized. I haven't seen a PDA in recent years that really looked fashionable. Not since Sony’s departure anyway. We all had a good laugh at the Claudia Schiffer Palm V model, but I'd gladly take a Palm V that packed the same features of today's models into a similar form factor and slick looking design.

The Zire line is another example of lackluster design. Popular consumer PDAs of past generations like the Handspring Visor Deluxe sported fun designs and color options that allowed the consumer to personalize their PDA. When Handspring first introduced the Visor, people were buying these things like candy. Visor owners proudly flaunted their color choice to friends and fellow Visor enthusiasts. As trivial as color and style may be to some, it offered a great experience to consumers.

In its glory days, PDAs were much more than a piece of technology, they were a wearable fashion accessory; sleek, stylish, and infinitely cool. There is no better example of this same philosophy than the iPod. Has that product become so successful simply because it plays music? Of course not, its classic design has made it an icon….with an almost cult-like following that Palm devices once had. Those days are long gone for the PDA it seems.

PalmOne needs another homerun design that breaks molds and sets off a new trend in hardware design. Something that screams...cool! So far all we've seen are a bunch of dud designs that have the sex appeal of wet clay. Obviously just slapping an existing PDA into a more elegant design isn't necessarily going to propel PDAs back to growth. But it may reinvigorate a market in desperate need of excitement and relevance. The PDA market needs an iPod!

Palm is now primarily about cutting costs, pinching pennies on design/manufacturing/quality. Ergo the Tungsten "5" (nee Tungsten TE2). Face it: the original Pilot pretty much nailed the design of a tablet-style PDA. Yes, you can make the Pilot thinner, lighter, add Wi-Fi/Bluetooth/color hi res screen/camera/etc (e.g. CLIE TH55), but it's still basically the same overall design. If you're not going to innovate in terms of design you need to sell based on style (e.g. iPod), slick marketing* (iPod), price (Dell Axim), or name (Palm). And just ask Netscape or WordPerfect how long consumers remember name. You DO remember Netscape and WordPerfect, right?

It's evident that while both Style and Substance help sales, Style is by far more important. Exhibit 1: TRGpro and HandEra 330 - both brilliantly functional designs, but hobbled by plain (or in the case of the 330, HORRID) styling. Meanwhile, Palm sold boatloads of the egregious m505. Go figure.

I would argue that in the past 9 years there have been only five significant PalmOS PDA designs:

1) 1996 - PalmPilot 1000

2) 1999 - Palm V

3) 1999 - TRGpro

4) 2003 - CLIE UX50

5) 2003 - Treo 600

Honorable mention goes to the CLIE TH55 for being the most highly evolved member of the traditional tablet PDA family tree.

My UX50 is the only PDA I've seen other than the Palm V series that has the ability to drop jaws. People seem irresistably drawn to it wherever I go and that kind of "Whut tha fcuk?" slackjawed amazement is what Palm needed to sustain if they were serious about maintaining the momentum they had in 1999-2000.

The PalmOS platform is moribund, partly due to the overpriced, unappealing hardware being sold. PalmOS needs the following models to be released ASAP:

I believe at least two of those devices will be here within four months.

*Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

I'm well aware of IDEO's role in past palm hardware designs. Although I have no clue whether P1 is still outsourcing its hardware designs, which appears unlikely.

FYI: IDEO is by no means the first design firm to have a hand (pardon the pun) in PalmOS hardware design. The original PalmPilot was actually designed by a Palo Alto Products. And if I'm not mistaken, Sony designers played a large role in the design of the Tungsten T. Even Tapwave hired a well known product designer (whose name escapes me at the moment) for the Zodiac.

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

"TRGpro and HandEra 330 - both brilliantly functional designs, but hobbled by plain (or in the case of the 330, HORRID) styling. Meanwhile, Palm sold boatloads of the egregious m505. Go figure."

Please...The problem was marketing not design.

Tell me please (looking at the front of the device), the difference between a TrgPro and a Palm III/IIIx? Visually, virtually none. And that was the point of both the HandEra models. Familiar to what people were already buying in great numbers from Palm, compatible with existing accessories, and yet adding in the features Palm leaves out.

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

Even Tapwave hired a well known product designer (whose name escapes me at the moment) for the Zodiac.

That would be Scott Summit (of Summit ID). He's had a number of slick designs over the years, including: AlphaSmart Dana, Xenote iTag, the original Palm V prototype and (his best work) the Stowaway keyboard.

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

I just want a text-oriented Palm device that isn't built into a phone.

AlphaSmart Dana.

Wait a minute - I forgot that the Dana has four year old specs (PalmOS 4, 16 MB RAM) pricing by the Marquis de Sade (don't drop the soap) and hefty weight (2 pounds).

The Window(s)™ of opportunity to launch a PalmOS microlaptop (PalmTop™) may have passed, finding Palm asleep at the wheel yet again. A T3 or TH55 with Bluetooth/IR keyboard? No thanks. The OS deserves creative hardware, not kludges.

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

"TRGpro and HandEra 330 - both brilliantly functional designs, but hobbled by plain (or in the case of the 330, HORRID) styling. Meanwhile, Palm sold boatloads of the egregious m505. Go figure."

Please...The problem was marketing not design.

Tell me please (looking at the front of the device), the difference between a TrgPro and a Palm III/IIIx? Visually, virtually none. And that was the point of both the HandEra models. Familiar to what people were already buying in great numbers from Palm, compatible with existing accessories, and yet adding in the features Palm leaves out.

Please...The problem was design (in the case of the HandEra 330), marketing, naivety, arrogance, slow production schedule, Palm's desire to kill competition, limited funds, lack of color screen, lack of a cohesive distribution network (hello, Tapwave!!!), manufacturing issues (HandEra 330) and a number of other things that have all been discussed before.

Form and function are inseperable components of design. The TRGpro was functionality incarnate, and thus its design was unquestionably brilliant. In terms of aesthetics, obviously it looked like just another Palm III. But in 1999, FFS/Compact Flash capability/real speaker/CFBackup were as "revolutionary" as anything the platform has seen since then. At least until the CLIE UX50 and then Handspring's Treo 600 masterpiece.

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

Since P1 are so bereft of NEW product ideas, why don't they start doing the neo-retro thing?

A modernized and slightly revised Visor Edge and/or an m500 update would be absolutely killer products. Best of all, the majority of the design is already done on the exteriors. Tweaks would just have to be made for Athena connectors and a 5-way navigator. And of course, in the case of the Edge, a proper SDIO slot (or two!). Add 320*480 & BT and you've got a good model to hold the masses over until Cobalt drops this fall.

If they could just do them in a matte black finish as I mentioned the other day (as did Voice) they'd stand from the old OS 3 & OS4 models as well as stand out on the shelves.

As an aside: I know a guy who used to work for IBM and he still has the final WorkPad--a c500 (rebadged m500 in black case). It still looks great and serves his needs--SD slot, UC, G1--what more do you need for a basic PDA.

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

Voice, I agree with points #1-#3 on your list. However #4, IMHO, deserves to be the NR70V Sony. Yeah, it was too big and fragile but it at least tried to not just break new ground but absolutely bulldoze the market. Look what they managed to cobble together under poor ol' OS 4!! I know a guy who has a battered NR70V and it still turns heads to this day. I remember being absolutely livid that Sony could crank one of those out and the Palm Inc. loyalists were getting excited over the bright screen on the m515. Handheld nirvana for me personally, circa spring 2002, would've existed somewhere between those two extreme ends of the spectrum.

I'd also put the notorious T|T in place of the Treo 600 (I consider that a phone, not a PDA). Love it or hate it, the slider brought lots of attention and plenty of buzz to Palm when they were in desperate need of it. Remember the early reviews likening it to the "BMW of PDAs"? HAH! And then just today I read an article about a new Samsung CDMA cell phone for Verizon that uses a variation on the Matrix phone slider mechanism. Imagine how everyone would be slidin' around had Apple released a slider iPod?

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

Voice, I agree with points #1-#3 on your list. However #4, IMHO, deserves to be the NR70V Sony. Yeah, it was too big and fragile but it at least tried to not just break new ground but absolutely bulldoze the market. Look what they managed to cobble together under poor ol' OS 4!! I know a guy who has a battered NR70V and it still turns heads to this day. I remember being absolutely livid that Sony could crank one of those out and the Palm Inc. loyalists were getting excited over the bright screen on the m515. Handheld nirvana for me personally, circa spring 2002, would've existed somewhere between those two extreme ends of the spectrum.

I'd also put the notorious T|T in place of the Treo 600 (I consider that a phone, not a PDA). Love it or hate it, the slider brought lots of attention and plenty of buzz to Palm when they were in desperate need of it. Remember the early reviews likening it to the "BMW of PDAs"? HAH! And then just today I read an article about a new Samsung CDMA cell phone for Verizon that uses a variation on the Matrix phone slider mechanism. Imagine how everyone would be slidin' around had Apple released a slider iPod?

The N series PDAs were just too big to take seriously. Sony is about elegant designs and it's surprising that those Newton-class behemoths ever made it out of the Sony PDA lab. PDAs need to be small enough that normal people don't mind carrying them around. The N series is For Geeks Only.

The T|T and its slider design is little more than a gimmick. The Treo 600, on the other hand, represented a quantum leap forward in smartphone design and required a truly frightening amount of PalmOS hacking to be performed. It's a shame that people don't seem to realize what a engineering accomplishment the Treo 600 was for Handspring. Even more unfortunate is the fact that the basic design was undermined by several stupid cost-saving decisions and shoddy construction by Handspring's contractor. And MOST unfortunate is that Palm has taken all of Handspring's hard work and done precisely NOTHING with it in the past year. Palm needs to remove the external antenna and shrink the Treo 600's size, weight and price around 25% before this will catch on with "normal" people.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

RE: Deconstructing the UFO MoFo

The standard iPoo is brown and comes with a roll of Jobs-approved iToilet Paper to keep the Apple Cultists from smearing Jobs' crap all over their sheep-like faces. Yes, the iPod In-Ear Headphones are in a matching designer brown color. And I coined the iPod Muffle term last year when I heard about the iPod Shuffle. I should sue this Billy Palmer MoFo for intellectual property theft.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

I have a great PDA, but didn't bring it with me today

I agree with the article, however it wasn't just the style of the Palm V that made it a classic, it was it's size. A PDA as small as the Palm V hasn't been released for years, probably not since the M505 shortly afterwards. Somewhere along the line Palm lost sight of the fact that PDAs are popular because they are highly-portable devices, to be taken everywhere in pockets like mobile phones. If you don't want to have your PDA with you because it's too big, it's no good.And like mobile phones, their battery life must be measured in days, not hours as they don't spend their time sitting on desks charging like the laptops their battery-life now resembles. Time after time, model after model, Palm has sacrificed these two cornerstones of PDA design: size and battery life, in an attempt to chase Microsoft/HP up the gadgets garden path. Palm should reintroduce a model line based on the Palm V form factor and battery life, sacrificing anything that compromises it (including a color screen, WIFI, etc).

Brendan(still using a Palm Vx)

RE: I have a great PDA, but didn't bring it with me today

"Palm should reintroduce a model line based on the Palm V form factor and battery life, sacrificing anything that compromises it (including a color screen, WIFI, etc)."

I think they did that with the M500. Almost identical form factor, weeks between charges, no color. I still have my IIIe, but what has changed is my needs. I need to be able to manage multiple relational databases with speed similar to a desktop. Weeks between charges? Forget it now! However, I must say that that is the only loss noted. My current device actually has a smaller footprint than the V, and the charging once every few days is not so bad, but I'd be concerned about long trips!

RE: I have a great PDA, but didn't bring it with me today

Palm V got the most ATTENTION and praise and was, indeed, the groundbreaker but the m500 line perfected the PDA as far as I am concerned. It was nigh impossible to forget to bring a V or m5xx with you because they were just so damned pocketable and slim. The great battery life was the icing on the cake. The m500 was practically limitless with its battery life, especially if you underclocked most of your apps like I did.

Palm was *so* close to getting everything right with the m515. All it was missing was a backlite Graffiti area and a $50 cheaper pricetag. A resurrection of that classic m500 (don't you dare call the T|E the new V/m500) formfactor could easily contain an Athena connector, OS 5.x, and a 320*480 screen. As long as it had BT I'd be happy. Essentially, T3 specs in an m500 shell. Pure PDA bliss for the majority of us. The only thing I'd worry about would be how to shoehorn a decent d-pad into that shape . I could even live with a slightly elongaged bottom section.

People forget that the m500s felt vastly better (nude) in your hand than the V. They weren't as "sharp" and had nice rounded countours. The stylus placement and case rail was brilliant as well. The Palm V aluminum hardcase remains my FAVORITE PDA case of all time, btw.

I also hold the Visor Edge in higher regard now than I did when it was released 4 years ago. Go figre.

RE: I have a great PDA, but didn't bring it with me today

Yeah, it was a sweet one. My daughter still had my old M515 until a few days ago. Her brother took her cradle, so she dug up an old one and used the wrong power adapter. No replacement motherboards at GetHighTech either.

RE: I have a great PDA, but didn't bring it with me today

The thing is, aside from the ultra-basic Zire crowd, almost no one wants to sacrifice features for battery life. Try finding people who really want an ugly, gray-and-green low-res screen in exchange for a lot of battery life. These things aren't pocket calculators anymore, and they're used for a lot more than just PIM. Ironically, it's ignoring that fact that gets PalmOne into trouble. And PocketPCs, with all their myriad features, are still selling quite well. Making all Palms into Zires isn't going to help.

I don't think Palm can afford to take the kind of risk they need to innovate to the next level. I'm talking both about featuresets (new Palms with Wifi AND flashing alarm lights) but mostly about core OS and application functions. The hints should come from the third party programs that power users pay for and install, but these features need to become fundamental.

On the flip side, I don't think the Pocket PC folks can afford to innovate because of the strictness of their platform requirements and the entrenched, "I came from a Windows Desktop" mentality. Any radical departures for them will certainly have high user resistance.

Finally, I will say that I think the Blackberry series is the most innovative thing happening in the PDA space (although arguably it's in its own area). The people at RIM seem to be really user-oriented, and are raking in the bucks. I think their next few devices will be the ones to watch.

RE: Now THIS is design

Gekko: These are old photos, not new products. Citizen never went ahead with them. Citizen was the creator of the original Rex, which was marketed here by Rolodex, then acquired by Xircom/Intel -- and then killed... sigh.

In Japan, the Rex was called the DataSlim. I'm still trying to find out if its being sold there. Probably not. They never did go with a color screen, dammit.

RE: Now THIS is design

Hi,just to clarify it-this machine has NO color screen. It only has a 4bit grayscale screen that appears as blue and red in the photo!BTW, I deem that a credit-card sized machine is not going to have much chances nowaways. People want huge screens for movie playback and word processing-have fun with excel on your credit card....Best regardsTam Hanna

RE: Now THIS is design

I don't want to do Excel. I don't even want to do WP, MP3, or MPEG on a PDA anymore. JPEG (photos), yes. But otherwise strictly PIM stuff. This form factor with a color touch screen would be perfect. In fact, I'd ditch the JPEG if I could have it as monochrome! Just make sure the damned alarm is loud enough to hear!

RE: Now THIS is design

I don't want to do Excel. I don't even want to do WP, MP3, or MPEG on a PDA anymore. JPEG (photos), yes. But otherwise strictly PIM stuff. This form factor with a color touch screen would be perfect. In fact, I'd ditch the JPEG if I could have it as monochrome! Just make sure the damned alarm is loud enough to hear!

Any manufacturer catering to what YOU want is an idiot that deserves to go out of business. Almost everyone buying PDA these days already has a cellphone. No one is going to buy an extra monochrome small screened PIM device that can't even compete with their color small screened cellphone's PIM abilities. Think about it, Cane. What's happened to you these days? I haven't seen an even remotely interesting post from you in months. Even Ska had more useful things to say than you now do. Don't come back here until you've got your act together. Punk.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

To all the Sony Haterz: Don't be a Hater. Kumbayah...

You mean like Sony? No wait, that can't be right, they have already left the business.

Yes, they pulled out of the non-Japanese PDA market. But they have other interests to contend with and are focusing resources on The Profit-making Machine Formerly Known As PSP (TPMFKAP). TPMFKAP will bring in several BILLION $$$ per year to cash-starved Sony. CLIEs could only realistically be expected to make a few hundred MILLION $$$ per year for Sony. The expensive groundwork was already done for CLIE, but (for now) conservative thinking dictated the retreat.

Palm, on the other hand could easily go bankrupt in 2006. What do they have left to fall back on?

Beware the monster known as Jealousy, Grasshopper. It will slowly consume you alive.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

RE: Now THIS is design

PDAs are lackluster. There is no longer any excitement or appeal for me. Trying to get them to act like a laptop is a fool's errand. An OQO or Sony U is better suited for non-PIM tasks (ie, real work).

And what do we have to look forward from p1 Cobalt devices? -- the same screwy RAM scheme as the T5. No thanks!

Design is DEAD.

PDAs are lackluster. There is no longer any excitement or appeal for me. Trying to get them to act like a laptop is a fool's errand. An OQO or Sony U is better suited for non-PIM tasks (ie, real work).

And what do we have to look forward from p1 Cobalt devices? -- the same screwy RAM scheme as the T5. No thanks!

I think for anything bigger than a typical PDA (4 - 6 ounces) a decent keyboard is mandatory. The U series and OQO don't make sense: too big to be pocketable and lacking keyboards to replace a laptop. Like those tablet PCs that were supposed to be the Next Big Thing, these pseudo PCs will also fail. Real laptops have now shrunk to sub-2 pounds and make a lot more sense than the U series etc.

The U series + friends offer NOTHING compelling to get significant numbers of people to switch from the proven hardware categories. They answer a question no one is asking.

Sony and Palm COULD have tried to cannibalize sales of minilaptops by releasing advanced (and slightly bigger) versions of the UX50, but realistically, without a stable multitasking environment (i.e. a stable Cobalt), PalmOS microlaptops ("PalmTops") don't make much sense.

It's funny, but Tungsten T3, CLIE UX50, TH55 and other older models are going to become hot properties now that Palm has butchered their architecture and QC. Start hoarding your old skool PDAs while you can. Rough times are a-comin'.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/notebooks/0,39023980,39170249,00.htm"The OQO Model 01 weighs 397g -- more than any handheld and rather too much to carry in a pocket. You'd need big pockets, besides, as the device measures 12.4cm wide, 8.6cm deep and 2.29cm high. Its size and weight feel good in your hands, but it runs hot, which makes it uncomfortable to hold after a few minutes."

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

RE: Now THIS is design

Hey, dufflebag. For six weeks I was carrying TWO PDAs in my shirt pocket at the same time: Tungsten E and a GENIO PPC. Just about two ounces *less* than an OQO and about twice as fat! (And even combined still about 100 times *less* capable!)

Go cut some paper to the OQO dimensions and maybe it'll sink in just how teeny that baby is.

I *know* the Sony U dimensions. I wasn't arguing that *it* was pocketable -- or even possible to carry on one's body (ie, holster or belt clip).

Another reason for a card-sized p1 PDA

Mike Cane: Get onboard the Clue Train™

For six weeks I was carrying TWO PDAs in my shirt pocket at the same time: Tungsten E and a GENIO PPC. Just about two ounces *less* than an OQO and about twice as fat! (And even combined still about 100 times *less* capable!)

Go cut some paper to the OQO dimensions and maybe it'll sink in just how teeny that baby is.

I *know* the Sony U dimensions. I wasn't arguing that *it* was pocketable -- or even possible to carry on one's body (ie, holster or belt clip).

Once again: OQO weight: 14 ounces!!!

Only a true geek would carry around a non-laptop device weighing over 8 ounces. You posts are pathetic cries for help.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

Words mean things

Words have meanings that are independent of what you THINK that they mean:

> Have PDA's as we know them lost that enthusiasm> that created such ascetic beauties as the Palm V?

as•cet•ic

Pronunciation: (u-set'ik), [key] —n. 1. a person who dedicates his or her life to a pursuit of contemplative ideals and practices extreme self-denial or self-mortification for religious reasons. 2. a person who leads an austerely simple life, esp. one who abstains from the normal pleasures of life or denies himself or herself material satisfaction. 3. (in the early Christian church) a monk; hermit.

Or...

aes•thet•ic

Pronunciation: (es-thet'ik or, esp. Brit., ēs-), [key] —adj. 1. pertaining to a sense of the beautiful or to the science of aesthetics. 2. having a sense of the beautiful; characterized by a love of beauty. 3. pertaining to, involving, or concerned with pure emotion and sensation as opposed to pure intellectuality.

RE: Words mean things

No lack of design enthusisasm, we saw everything....

Hi,I personally do not know what one can still change. we had it all already-slider keyboards, thumbpads, foldable units(Revo was there before the UX even was born),....So, there is no lack of innovation IMHO-it is just that we already saw almost everything that is practical....Look here for a further discussion of the editorial:http://tamspalm.blogspot.com/2005/02/pda-industry-is-loosing-its-design.htmlJust my 2 centsTam Hanna

RE: No lack of design enthusisasm, we saw everything....

I personally do not know what one can still change. we had it all already-slider keyboards, thumbpads, foldable units(Revo was there before the UX even was born),....So, there is no lack of innovation IMHO-it is just that we already saw almost everything that is practical....

Ridiculous. Is innovation dead in automobiles? Airplanes? Architecture? Basic designs have been around for years in most fields, but that doesn't mean companies stop trying to push the envelope.

You want innovation? How about:

1) Quality control. That would be the single most important "innovation" for Palm to make. Their hardware offerings over the past several years have had an embarassing number of design flaws + construction defects.

2) Integrated GSM +/- CDMA radios in a tablet or microlaptop-style PDA. Bluetooth or wired headphones or speakerphones could be used for phone use.

5) Integrated voice transcription software. Now that we have 600+ MHz CPUs in PDAs, this should be seriously looked at.

6) 8 - 12 hour batteries. The CLIE TH55 hinted at what could be done with attention to detail. Those of us who remember what it was like only having to change batteries in our Pilots/Palm III/etc every month miss not having to worry about battery life every day.

7) Video out (to monitor or TV) ability. Or PDA as PC with docking stations at home or work for use with better keyboard/mouse/monotor.

RE: No lack of design enthusisasm, we saw everything....

Hi Voice,what you are writing about basically is minimal improvements-not major stoff. The major housing shapes have all be done, and that is what our editor was talking about IMHO..Best RegardsTam Hanna

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

If PalmOS has been licenced to Nintendo and will actually be USED in shipping units, hats off to PalmSource. I doubt anything much will come of this though - reminds me of Innovation Technologies' GameBoy Advance PDA cartridge. At last count around four people bought that PDA cartridge. And one of those people was the developer's mother...

Hint to Nagel: Cellphones sell in the hundreds of millions per year. PalmOS on cellphones would be A Good Thing.

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

RE: The Nintendo DS Palm Option

And my sentence back there was misleading: It wasn't Palm *OS* software they licensed -- that is, the *OS* itself -- it was some sort of *application* or *application suite*. Don't know why they'd go and do that unless it had some sort of features they think they can also patent and then extract royalties from everybody else for using.

RE: The Nintendo DS Palm Option

I use it on a Mac and a Pocket PC and it's superb nothing like NetZero and far better than the voice facilities on things like MSN or iChat.

20 million people wrong?

I don't think so.

BTW the patent that Nintendo have lodged contains a licensing of the Palm OS. Which of course doesn't guarantee they'll use it but if they do it certainly puts the Palm operating system back in the game against Windows Mobile and Symbian.

RE: The Nintendo DS Palm Option

RE: The Nintendo DS Palm Option

but I'm not sure they'll try and monetize their community via moving voice data around but probably via added value services such as calls to non VoIP lines which they already do. There's some big bucks in this activity alone if you have the volume.

For example in the UK I already get all my national landline calls free using a free sign-up service from 18866.co.uk - I even get to call Australia or the U.S. for 2p a minute. It gives pretty hefty discounts for my landline calls to mobiles also. I call 1800 numbers in the states from the Uk also for free. So they make their money from the volume of international and mobile calls to the extent that they give away UK to UK landline calls for nada.

I would imagine that Skype will be looking at a similar model until, of course, all the non-VoIP phones disappear :)

PDA Industry Losing Its Design Enthusiasm?

Interesting article Kent, not sure I understand though. First of all aesthetics are not as important as the guts that go into an electronic device; proof of this was the palm Vx (which by the way I think were ugly but functional) Two; the tungsten T’s were innovative and the T3 was a marvel.

I agree with you on PDA Industry Losing Its Design Enthusiasm! The problem is not in aesthetics but in functions. Palm has really dropped the ball with the upgrade (if you can call it that) from the T3 to the T5 (who knows what happened to the T4) and is losing customers because of it. Palm has in the past changed designs that are not compatible to older designs creating the need to buy new accessories and software. They dropped functions such as the vibrator, voice recorder, and the universal connector. They continually neglect to add wi-fi, and are moving to plastics despite the constant nagging of its customer base.

I own a B&K Receiver that is plain looking but power packed, I agree with you that for the price we pay the unit should look great but even more important it should work great and have great support.

I think the people at Palm are depending on their operating system and customer loyalty and not their hardware to sell PDA’s. Management may be allowing the marketing branch to run things without customer input and ignoring their engineering branch.

Once again I hope the Palm people are reading this and they react to its loyal customer base by addressing our desires.

This is my third palm unit and I have invested heavyly and stuck with the Palm name

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