For the record, you have always been able to carry a gun into a bar in Pennsylvania. No blood in the streets.

I think people make a big deal about this because as a rule alcohol and guns do not mix. On the face of it that would be a reasonable conclusion. However, the only people allowed to carry guns in Pennsylvania have permits, and statistics have shown that permit holders are far less likely than the general population to commit violent crimes with guns. I suspect that's the trend everywhere.

Mugato:Adolf Oliver Nipples: Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not really. I had to take a class for a couple hours, not have a felony on my record, I guess the same training as any cop has to take.

I had to give fingerprints, photographs, and references (which they check), and undergo a NICS check. Someone who gives the police everything they need to identify them in the event of a crime isn't likely to commit any.

Adolf Oliver Nipples:Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not really. I had to take a class for a couple hours, not have a felony on my record, I guess the same training as any cop has to take.

I had to give fingerprints, photographs, and references (which they check), and undergo a NICS check. Someone who gives the police everything they need to identify them in the event of a crime isn't likely to commit any.

/Whether the shooter had a valid concealed weapons permit is also irrelevant.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

Adolf Oliver Nipples:Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: and statistics have shown that permit holders are far less likely than the general population to commit violent crimes with guns

Yeah, giving $50 to some guy at a gun show makes you a responsible gun owner.

Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

It depends on the state. Some states have unrestricted carry (no permit or application required). The Shall-Issue states have some sort of licensing requirement. It can be as simple as filling out a form, up to a minimum number of hours of a certified gun safety course. There was a stink where some people were getting reciprocity CCW permits in one state, where it was something like you only had to watch an online safety video (which could be fast-forwarded) and that was it.

May-Issue states you have to demonstrate to your local local enforcement agency why you need a permit (hazardous job, crazy stalker ex, etc.)

EvilEgg:Dimensio: ZAZ: The law goes into effect July 1, according to CNN.

Facts are not important when evaluating public safety policy.

/Whether the shooter had a valid concealed weapons permit is also irrelevant.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

As the law does not take effect until July 1, 2014, any non law-enforcement individual who carries a firearm into a bar is carrying illegally.

After July 1, 2014, management of such establishments may choose to enact a prohibition on carrying firearms on the premises, to eliminate any ambiguity.

EvilEgg:Dimensio: ZAZ: The law goes into effect July 1, according to CNN.

Facts are not important when evaluating public safety policy.

/Whether the shooter had a valid concealed weapons permit is also irrelevant.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.

Why would you call the cops if you saw someone peacefully going about their business with a holstered gun?

Adolf Oliver Nipples:Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not really. I had to take a class for a couple hours, not have a felony on my record, I guess the same training as any cop has to take.

I had to give fingerprints, photographs, and references (which they check), and undergo a NICS check. Someone who gives the police everything they need to identify them in the event of a crime isn't likely to commit any.

Adolf Oliver Nipples:For the record, you have always been able to carry a gun into a bar in Pennsylvania. No blood in the streets.

I think people make a big deal about this because as a rule alcohol and guns do not mix. On the face of it that would be a reasonable conclusion. However, the only people allowed to carry guns in Pennsylvania have permits, and statistics have shown that permit holders are far less likely than the general population to commit violent crimes with guns. I suspect that's the trend everywhere.

In the end it all cancels out.

Plus most of the bans covered restaraunts in general. Not just bars. Plus its still illegal to carry while drinking in most places.

bojon:Adolf Oliver Nipples: Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not really. I had to take a class for a couple hours, not have a felony on my record, I guess the same training as any cop has to take.

I had to give fingerprints, photographs, and references (which they check), and undergo a NICS check. Someone who gives the police everything they need to identify them in the event of a crime isn't likely to commit any.

DubtodaIll:EvilEgg: Dimensio: ZAZ: The law goes into effect July 1, according to CNN.

Facts are not important when evaluating public safety policy.

/Whether the shooter had a valid concealed weapons permit is also irrelevant.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.

Why would you call the cops if you saw someone peacefully going about their business with a holstered gun?

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.

How does anyone know the laptop a guy is carrying is legally owned by him our not? We should call the cops on anyone with a laptop even if that would be harrasing a "possibly" law abiding citizen.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.How does anyone know the laptop a guy is carrying is legally owned by him our not? We should call the cops on anyone with a laptop even if that would be harrasing a "possibly" law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to pin all their receipts to their jacket.

A laptop is hardly a deadly weapon that is frequently used in crime...

mschwenk:bojon: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not really. I had to take a class for a couple hours, not have a felony on my record, I guess the same training as any cop has to take.

I had to give fingerprints, photographs, and references (which they check), and undergo a NICS check. Someone who gives the police everything they need to identify them in the event of a crime isn't likely to commit any.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.How does anyone know the laptop a guy is carrying is legally owned by him our not? We should call the cops on anyone with a laptop even if that would be harrasing a "possibly" law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to pin all their receipts to their jacket.

You should have gone with cars. Cars kill more people and that's important in these arguments.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.How does anyone know the laptop a guy is carrying is legally owned by him our not? We should call the cops on anyone with a laptop even if that would be harrasing a "possibly" law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to pin all their receipts to their jacket.

A laptop is hardly a deadly weapon that is frequently used in crime...

You'd be surprised at what is used as a deadly weapon to commit a crime.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.How does anyone know the laptop a guy is carrying is legally owned by him our not? We should call the cops on anyone with a laptop even if that would be harrasing a "possibly" law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to pin all their receipts to their jacket.

A laptop is hardly a deadly weapon that is frequently used in crime...

You'd be surprised at what is used as a deadly weapon to commit a crime.

phalamir:Adolf Oliver Nipples: Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not really. I had to take a class for a couple hours, not have a felony on my record, I guess the same training as any cop has to take.

I had to give fingerprints, photographs, and references (which they check), and undergo a NICS check. Someone who willinglygives the police everything they need to identify them in the event of a crime isn't likely to commit any.

The number of repeat offenders pretty much disproves that.

Let me fix that for OP. The states that release statistics on CCW arrests (TX, NC, MI, FL) off the top of my head show an arrest rate a small fraction of that for the general population. DUI was the most common arrest. Violent crime is pretty much negligible.

How does anyone in the bar know whether the guy is carrying legally or illegally? Until someone gets shot that is. Before if you saw a guy with a gun you call the cops, now you can't, because that would be harassment of a possibly law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to wear their permits like badges.How does anyone know the laptop a guy is carrying is legally owned by him our not? We should call the cops on anyone with a laptop even if that would be harrasing a "possibly" law abiding citizen.

My solution is they have to pin all their receipts to their jacket.

A laptop is hardly a deadly weapon that is frequently used in crime...

You'd be surprised at what is used as a deadly weapon to commit a crime.

Adolf Oliver Nipples:Mugato: Adolf Oliver Nipples: and statistics have shown that permit holders are far less likely than the general population to commit violent crimes with guns

Yeah, giving $50 to some guy at a gun show makes you a responsible gun owner.

Getting a CCW permit is a lot more than forking $50 over to someone at a gun show.

Not a hell of a lot more. I would like to see what the failure rate is for people that take the course to get the CHL. If it is under 10% then they are just wasting everybody's time and they cancel the requirement.