Claire: Since I have a need to spell things out, I want to make sure that you understand the thanks for particpating in these posts and the wish for a Merry Christmas of course specifically includes YOU.

Claire Guest

December 23, 20129:10pm

Paul, are you opposed to our president (veep and others too) having armed guards protecting him everywhere he goes? Are you opposed to armed security guards at banks? Malls? These questions have been raised elsewhere and I think they're totally valid. Although I have answered your first question numerous times, in response to your many continued questions and comments, you still haven't addressed my answer to your second question.

Paul Schryba

December 23, 20128:42pm

Claire: I am praying for you and have contacted CT about your postings. You are an extremely clever person; you have wonderful passion and valid concerns.

Claire Guest

December 23, 20122:50pm

This may be OT, but it has occurred to me that, although a number of funerals have been held in churches, I haven't heard anything about giving Nancy Lanza the benefit of doubt (obviously, she didn't feel threatened by Adam, and I haven't heard any concrete evidence that he had a bona fide mental illness). Nor have I heard a word about forgiveness, which seems to be completely off the radar.

Claire Guest

December 23, 20122:45pm

Paul, your latest response PROVES you did not read the post I referred to earlier. I did address those very things (gun licensing and restrictions) in that post. I did not say that money is more precious TO YOU SPECIFICALLY than our schoolchildren - I *did* say, "[E]vidently our money is more precious than our schoolchildren" BECAUSE I haven't heard one person who is AGAINST having armed security guards in schools complain about having armed guards on duty in banks. And, YES, it is true that the policewoman in CO prevented a massacre. RE: Wasted money in general - Obama has incurred TRILLIONS of dollars in national debt, he wants to keep spending AND spending AND spending with no end in sight. LOTS of waste could go toward feeding the poor, Paul. Maybe this is why Christ Jesus said the poor would always be with us. However, I do know that MANY Christian organizations and individuals are indeed giving and giving and giving, and not only at Christmastime. God bless you too.

Claire Guest

December 23, 20122:44pm

P.S. to Paul: Since CT has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, it is clear that gun control laws in themselves cannot prevent such tragedies. When a school (or any other place) is a designated Gun Free Zone, the people there are sitting ducks for deranged guys. Sad, but true.

Paul Schryba

December 23, 20128:22am

Claire: Bless you child of God! I ask you what you believe about gun licensing and restrictions- you make no mention at all of gun licensing and restrictions, but armed guards and police. I mention the millions dying from poverty and lack of financial resources and how much we as a nation spend on guns, and you imply that "...money is more precious [to me] than our schoolchildren". Prayer is needed here in general, and for me in my own faults and failings. I have learned a lot through these postings: I need to practice what I preach about not returning 'evil for evil' and that I need to depend less on my own knowledge and wisdom, and to be more still and to trust in God's promptings in my responses. God bless you all, thank you for your sharings, and Merry Christmas!

Claire Guest

December 22, 201211:03pm

Paul, did you READ what I said about that yesterday? I get the impression that you did not. I do not have a problem with each school having a trained armed security guard on duty - I see them at banks every day. You want to talk about money - evidently our money is more precious than our schoolchildren. I haven't seen you complain about armed guards at banks. Do you remember the potential massacre which was prevented in a Colorado church a couple years ago because an armed policewoman was in the congregation? HER gun did NOT support death, but LIFE! A LOT of people are alive today because she was there. How many of Newtown's children (AND teachers, AND principal) might be alive TODAY if an armed security guard had been at the Sandy Hook Elementary School?

Claire Guest

December 22, 201210:54pm

Paul, do you believe that God is calling us to de-criminalize any OTHER form of murder (as happened with abortion)? And do you believe that God called the Supreme Court to de-criminalize the form of murder we call abortion?

Paul Schryba

December 22, 201210:54pm

"Every year, 8 million people die because they’re too poor to stay alive.... Half the world lives on less than $2 a day-30,000 children die every day due to poverty- 2 billion have no access to electricity- 20% of people in the highest-income countries consume 86% of the world’s resources. The poorest 20% account for a minuscule 1.3%." [http://www.un.org/summit/poverty.html] "This year, the NRA spent $17 million on federal elections. It's a considerable amount when compared to the size of the industry. Annual gun sales in the U.S. total about $3.5 billion, according to estimates from Wedbush Securities analyst Rommel Dionisio." [http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/18/news/economy/gun-lobby-nra-connecticut/ind ex.html] The annual NRA budget is over $220 million per year. Soros spending is scandalous, so large, but guns directly support a culture of violence and death.

Paul Schryba

December 22, 201210:40pm

So lets take this one part at a time: Paul "Do you believe God is calling for us to reduce restrictions on gun ownership and availability in response to this particular shooting incident?" Claire: "If you read my earlier post about this very thing yesterday, you know this is the opposite of what I did say:" So if I get this straight, you do not believe that God is calling us to reduce restrictions on gun ownership and availability in response to this incident. And you do not believe that more people having more guns will reduce or stop mass and school killings. Have I got that right?

Claire Guest

December 22, 201210:39pm

Paul, how much money did George Soros (and other leftists, including Hollywood celebrities) spend to put Obama in office in 2008 and 2012, which would have fed untold numbers of people?

Claire Guest

December 22, 201210:36pm

Paul, do you believe that God is calling us to de-criminalize any OTHER form of murder (as happened with abortion)? And do you believe that God called the Supreme Court to de-criminalize the form of murder we call abortion?

Paul Schryba

December 22, 201210:19pm

"Every year, 8 million people die because they’re too poor to stay alive.... Half the world lives on less than $2 a day-30,000 children die every day due to poverty- 2 billion have no access to electricity- 20% of people in the highest-income countries consume 86% of the world’s resources. The poorest 20% account for a minuscule 1.3%." [http://www.un.org/summit/poverty.html] "This year, the NRA spent $17 million on federal elections. It's a considerable amount when compared to the size of the industry. Annual gun sales in the U.S. total about $3.5 billion, according to estimates from Wedbush Securities analyst Rommel Dionisio." [http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/18/news/economy/gun-lobby-nra-connecticut/ind ex.html] The annual NRA budget is over $220 million per year. The world cannot afford America's gun spending.

Claire Guest

December 22, 201210:09pm

Paul, here are my answers to your questions: Q: Do you believe God is calling for us to reduce restrictions on gun ownership and availability in response to this particular shooting incident? A: If you read my earlier post about this very thing yesterday, you know this is the opposite of what I did say. Q: Do you believe that God is calling for us to criminalize abortion in response to this particular shooting incident? A: Paul, do you believe that God is calling us to de-criminalize any OTHER form of murder? And do you believe that God called the Supreme Court to de-criminalize the form of murder we call abortion?

Paul Schryba

December 22, 20129:01pm

Claire: Do you believe God is calling for us to reduce restrictions on gun ownership and availability in response to this particular shooting incident? Do you believe that God is calling for us to criminalize abortion in response to this particular shooting incident? Yes or no.

Claire Guest

December 22, 20124:22pm

Wayne - a word of explanation which I hope will help you to understand why I sometimes (rarely) ask someone if he or she is a Christian. For quite some time I posted here just assuming that everyone WAS a believer (because it's a Christian magazine website), thus God's Word was everyone's standard of truth. After a while, though, a couple of posters made it clear to me that was not true of them at all. For that reason, I have quit assuming anything at all about total strangers, which of course is always the best thing to do anyway. Whenever a poster simply dismisses the Word of God and asserts his or her ideas as 'better', that certainly causes me to wonder. Does that not make sense to you? As for your post, I understand your point, but at the same time, Christ Jesus made it clear that His Word is eternal. So I do believe 2 Chronicles 7:14 still applies to believers today as it did then, as it has through the ages. No space here to elaborate, but please look up Jeremiah Lanphier.

Claire Guest

December 22, 20124:21pm

Grace, abortions were performed illegally before our government put its official stamp of approval on it, BUT the numbers were greatly inflated by early abortion proponents, as Dr. Bernard Nathanson (co-founder of NARAL) admitted. Since January 22, 1973, almost 60,000,000 little babies have been LEGALLY KILLED in this nation. I ran the figures on that number yesterday - that's an average of 1,500,000 BABIES PER YEAR - MORE than 4,000 BABIES PER DAY. Can you imagine what would happen in this nation if MORE than 4,000 little children were likewise murdered in their classrooms EVERY DAY for the next 40 YEARS??? These statistics are simply mind-boggling. It is utterly hypocritical for Americans to decry the killing of those precious 20 little ones in Newtown and NOT also decry the killing of 60,000,000 of their counterparts - even younger, the most innocent and helpless among us. God is not mocked. Whatever our nation sows, it WILL reap. The reaping actually began some time ago.

Paul Schryba

December 22, 20127:36am

Rick: This is from God: God loves you and is well pleased with you. Please pray over Matt 10: 28, 37

Wayne Froese

December 21, 201210:51pm

Claire, that passage continues... 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place. 16 I have chosen and consecrated this temple so that my Name may be there forever. My eyes and my heart will always be there."... Remember at the moment of Christ's death that the veil to the Holy of Holies was split. In the destruction of Jerusalem @ 70 AD they reported that God left the Temple. This also seems to contradict this passage so I thought I point it out. My point really was is that I don't apply this passage beyond the scope it gives itself - God & Solomon, were talking. More to the point, do you think your refrain of "Are you a Christian?" when your ideas are opposed garners much respect?

Wayne Froese

December 21, 201210:33pm

Rick Dalby - thank you! I will read your link presently. I sincerely appreciate you reaching out in the manner I would understand. I should follow that example to be heard.

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20128:13pm

Rick: I am sorry if I am lecturing. I am a person of many faults, and pray they may not block you from what the Spirit is trying to communicate through me (if anything) and keep me from discerning what the Spirit is trying to tell me through you. I asked you to pray over what I said, because I do not believe you have correctly understood what I have tried to communicate, perhaps because I communicate poorly and am too arrogant. Only God knows whatever truth (if any) is present in what I said and what you are meant to receive at this time. I never said or implied that we should have not made war with Germany or freed the camps. What I said was, "Will some people feel called to fight with weapons? Probably yes. Will that stop some acts of killing? Yes. Will that overcome the evil of the Nazis? No."

Rick Dalbey

December 21, 20127:15pm

Paul, Jesus comes back with a sword and an army. Of course "Christ overcame evil with the cross. Follow Christ." You'll get no argument from me. Stop lecturing. You are not morally wrong or a defective Christian and neither am I. I am not telling you to "repent or pray about this so you will see the light as I have", that would be presumptuous. We have a difference of opinion.

Rick Dalbey

December 21, 20127:08pm

Paul, if you want to argue that we should not have stopped the Germans in World War II and halted the mass gassing of Jews, save your breath. You just won't convince me. Ever. Ravensbrook, Corrie ten Boom's camp, was liberated by the Soviets in April, 1945. The war came to an end and the concentration camps stopped gassing Jews because America and her allies came to the aid of the Jews with rifles, machine guns and bombs. Are you saying you won't defend yourself, your children or your country but you'll let the police or the army do it for you and risk their lives on your behalf?

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20126:53pm

Rick: Why don't you read over again what I just said prayerfully. If you would rather trust dogmatic church teachings and believe that guns are effective in overcoming evil, than Jesus own example in scripture and the witness of countless saints- your choice. It is not wrong to defend one's family; Gandhi said that if one could not fight evil with nonviolence, then one must oppose it with violence. But violence will not overcome evil. Christ overcame evil with the cross. Follow Christ.

Rick Dalbey

December 21, 20126:34pm

Paul S., I have been a born again Christian for 43 years, baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1970 and taught many Bible studies and led many to Jesus. The church historically, from Augustine through Aquinas to today has always believed in the right and duty of self-defense and defense of others through lethal force. Here is the Catholic Church position; “Everyone has the right to defend his life against the attacks of an unjust aggressor. For this end he may employ whatever force is necessary and even take the life of an unjust assailant.” The Orthodox church has always believed in this principal “The virtues of prudence, courage, justice, and charity demand that we continually prepare to resort to force of arms in accordance with the highest moral teachings of historic Christendom”. The overwhelming majority of evangelicals believe in self-defense, as does my Foursquare church of 6000. Whether you own a gun is a personal choice between you and God, but I defend your right to do so.

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20126:29pm

Rick: Will some people feel called to fight with weapons? Probably yes. Will that stop some acts of killing? Yes. Will that overcome the evil of the Nazis? No. Look at the examples of the Christian martyrs in the concentration camps; Betsy Ten Boom and Maximilian Kolbe participated in Jesus cross through their own martyrdom and witness. That released far greater power from God into the world than the violent death of Nazis. "Overcome evil with good". Corrie ten Boom came through the camps, and was let go by God's providence. Her witness touched untold people and transformed lives; she carried no gun. But do you trust God to overcome evil with good, as Christ calls us, or do you trust in violence to overcome evil? And lets be clear: Christians supported Hitler because he was for a strong national defense, he was against Bolshevism, he was for law and order, and he restored Germany to economic and military power. (My kingdom is not of this world.)

Paul Coneff

December 21, 20126:21pm

After thousands of hours of clinical and pastoral counseling, I have not seen anything more powerful or personal than simply sharing how Jesus chose to identify with us, in principle, in all our suffering. As I share the way Christ identifies with us, I trust the Holy Spirit to connect the wounded heart of the person with the heart of Christ, their Wounded Healer. This is especially true when Jesus' gospel, according to Jesus' own words consistently and repeatedly included suffering, (see the disciples words, the apostle Paul's words, Peter's words, and the writer of Hebrews words, along with Isaiah's words... by doing a search for the word "suffering" in the New Testament and see how many times it shows up in the context of sharing the gospel). This can be a significant STARTING POINT for the healing process to begin (and it is a PROCESS that takes place over time), increasing faith and hope in a time of tragedy. www.straight2theheart.com is my ministry site.

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20126:16pm

Rick: "Before the resurrection I could go to war and stop the Nazis from exterminating the Jews but after the resurrection I can’t?" Again, Christianity is not about telling you what you can and cannot do. Every situation is unique, and each person is at a different level of spiritual maturity, discernment, and surrender to God. In each and every situation, Christians are called to accept the situation, trust God's presence, and surrender the situation to God and follow God's guidance. Before the resurrection, the power of the resurrection WHICH HAS OVERCOME THE WORLD was not released into the world. Our struggle now is not against men (St. Paul) but against principalities of darkness. So from a Christian perspective, the struggle is not against the Nazis, but the evil behind the Nazis that will continue after they are gone. Stopping the Nazis from exterminating the Jews will not stop the evil of the Nazis that continues after they are gone. That can only be stopped by the cross.

Paul Coneff

December 21, 20126:11pm

If I had a few precious minutes to share with the those who lost loved ones in Newton (or other places) to a brutal, senseless murder by a man trusting in a false form of power, leaving them overwhelmed with grief and loss, I would share how Jesus Christ chose to 1. Fulfill prophecy as He suffered in His soul (Isaiah 53:11; Heb. 2:14-18; Rev. 13:8) as the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world,"when He took on the fullness of humanity in the flesh 2. A. Including the way He lost a loved one, a family member to the brutal, senseless murder by a man trusting in a false form of power, when Herod had John the Baptist beheaded (Matt. 14:1-3), and again when B. His soul was "overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death" in the garden of Gethsemane (Matt. 26:38). And C. where we are left asking the "why" question, Jesus hung on the cross, crying out "Why have You forsaken Me? sharing how Christ's story connects with their story.

Grace Duplessis

December 21, 20125:53pm

Claire. Here is your logic: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." "If alcohol is outlawed, only outlaws will produce and sell alcohol." Now. I assume you would like to outlaw abortion. So finish the sentence using your own logic: "If abortion is outlawed, only......." Do you really think that abortion will end once we outlaw it? Like all things that are outlawed, it will continue. People will find ways. It has always been the case.

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20125:45pm

Rick: I would ask you to pray about what I have already written, specifically for God to enlighten you as to what truth (if any) is in it and to focus on what Jesus is saying to you. Your first point; Christianity is not about telling you what you can or cannot do; it is about your being a new person in Christ and putting on the mind of Christ. It is about your growing as a child of God and RESPONDING IN AND THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS JESUS DID. It is about allowing Christ to work in and through you. (Not I, but Christ in me.) If you are in the situation you describe, you need to first accept that God has permitted it and is working in it. Then you must recognize that your primary purpose in that situation is not to 'defend your daughter,' but to surrender the situation and your will to God and trust that in following His will, He will protect your daughter. And what will God's will be? You cannot know beforehand; and how the spirit will work will depend on your maturity and surrender.

Claire Guest

December 21, 20125:29pm

RE: "On the Deaths - and Lives - of Innocent Children" YES, it IS hypocritical for the nation to (rightfully) mourn the deaths of 20 schoolchildren while the nation has so steadfastly (wrongfully) ignored the deaths of nearly 60 MILLION little children during the last (almost) forty years. Those 60 MILLION children were the youngest, most innocent, most helpless among us, and it is a TRAGEDY that they have died WITH THE LEGAL CONSENT of our government. AVERAGE the number of children who have died violent deaths DAILY in "clinics" during that time and THINK: What if that number of schoolchildren died at the hands of gunmen DAILY for the next FORTY YEARS. What sort of uproar would result? THIS is the very uproar which should have resulted every day, every week, every month, every year, and every decade while this LEGAL KILLING OF INNOCENTS has occurred since January 22, 1973.

Claire Guest

December 21, 20122:59pm

Wayne, I won't be disrespectful to you as you were to me; I will stick to the subject instead of attacking you personally as you did me. What part of this is incomprehensible to you: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." During Prohibition, only outlaws owned and sold alcohol. Is that so hard to understand? This does not mean I oppose common-sense gun laws and restrictions; I don't. There's no need for you to be so condescending. I myself do not own a gun, don't even know how to use one. I am not the enemy, Wayne (neither is the NRA). YES, the root cause of this (and all tragedies) IS sin. MILLIONS of people owned and used guns (for hunting, etc) for YEARS and YEARS before any school shootings occurred. Sin existed then too, but our nation has been on a moral downhill slide at least since the '60s, and we are now seeing the fruit of increased Godlessness, rebellion and lawlessness, which have been glorified in and by the media AND even legalized by our government.

Claire Guest

December 21, 20122:59pm

P.S. to Wayne: Are you a Christian? I ask this because I have learned that some posters here are not. You say that surrender to God would not make a measurable difference, BUT GOD says, ""If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 Did you really mean to contradict the Word of God?

Rick Dalbey

December 21, 20121:51pm

Wayne, for something completely mind-boggling and counter intuitive, the Storey Institute of the UK analyzed murder rates by country compared to gun ownership rates and found that nations with lower homicide rates have a higher proliferation of guns&mdash;the reverse of what is often claimed in the media. Read it and see if you can poke holes in it. It is at http://storeyinstitute.blogspot.com/2012/12/homicides-and-gun-onwership-wha t.html?showComment=1355899108026. I am not justifying guns, don't belong to the NRA, don't own a gun and believe we could tighten up our gun laws. He says "The 10 nations with the highest homicide rates in the world, averaging 50.67 per 100,000, have 6.84 guns per 100 people. The ten nations with the lowest homicide rates&mdash;just 0.5 per 100,000&mdash;have gun rates of 20.39 per 100 people. While the “armed” nations have more than triple the number of privately-held firearms, their homicides rates are just 1/100th those found in the 10 least-armed nations.

Wayne Froese

December 21, 201212:15pm

Surrender to God would seem to have a measurable effect but when I examine data on nations with Christian believers vs gun death I see nothing to suggest that this would be effective. Can someone tell me a source for empirical evidence that this would be effective? It seems like it would be but looking at it shows that it is not. Is it bad to suggest that we look at the effectiveness of our actions to create a result? Some things we do for an outcome and other things we do are more about the doing then the result. If we want to have a certain outcome, I suggest that we also look at what actions will lead to that outcome. In this case, I thought that we want less gun death in our society. Maybe the disconnection in our communications here is that we have not spoken about our goals.

Rick Dalbey

December 21, 201210:06am

So before the resurrection I could defend my 6 year old daughter from a lunatic murderer with a gun but after the resurrection I can’t? Before the resurrection I could go to war and stop the Nazis from exterminating the Jews but after the resurrection I can’t? That is a misreading of scripture. The point Jesus is making is about the Kingdom of God being spiritual, not earthly. Before the resurrection I could defend the kingdom of God with a sword because the King was ruling in Israel. After the resurrection the Kingdom is spiritual in heaven. We still have an obligation to defend the weak and stop criminals with deadly force. Otherwise we would have to tell all those police at Newtown to holster their guns because he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. As Paul said “But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.” I am single and like Nicky I do not own a gun.

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20127:45am

Wayne and Rick: The power of Christ has not been realized in this violent world, because Christians have largely substituted possession of (lip service to) conceptual beliefs for living a life of faith, for doing what Jesus teaches. Jesus was primarily concerned with making God's kingdom present here and now through the believer's acting out of faith in God; ones life (body) and possessions in this world were secondary and not to be the focus of our efforts. We are to TRUST that God will protect us and provide for us. On the contrary, most believer's are primarily concerned with their lives and possessions in this world and living the Gospel is secondary and dependent on the primary. We (I) have limited trust in God's provision and protection. Hence the belief in the necessity of violence and guns (and wars). Nancy Lanza trusted in her guns to keep her safe-they didn't. Nicky Cruz has lived and preached safely to violent men without packing- let us make surrender to God our priority.

Paul Schryba

December 21, 20126:55am

Claire: You have criticized those who have advocated gun control as its being ineffective. Do you therefore believe the opposite- that reducing restrictions on gun owner licensing and gun registration will be effective in stopping/reducing such incidents as the CT shooting? Is that what Christians are called to advocate? No one here has advocated making gun possession itself illegal; only banning some types of guns, and licensing and registration. Do you believe that criminalizing abortion will reduce school shootings?

Wayne Froese

December 20, 201211:43pm

Our land's healing is not from a judgement from God. The spiritual act required is that we stop sticking our heads in the sand. The healing from gun death is not from more Christian belief (that factor is very slightly correlated with an increase in gun death) but rather less guns. Might it be supporting more guns that is today's "wicked ways"? Maybe it just more untreated mental illness that prevents our nation from seeing this. Lord knows we don't want to treat mental illness either so we are all safe here.

Wayne Froese

December 20, 201211:11pm

@Paul Schryba: exactly! Blaming sinfulness leads to only...blaming. - @Clair: Perform simple calculations using easily available data on gun death rates, civilian gun ownership rates, abortion rates, religious beliefs. You will find very strong relationship between only the ownership rates and death rates. You require a very strong #demonstration# of your belief that owning /carrying more and more effective guns will eventually lead to a lessening of deaths by guns. And about your abortion question, studies show that making better birth control available (read universal health care) is far far more effective than making abortion illegal. I would say that abortions are our sacrifice because of greed, ignorance, and demanding that people follow our morality and the steadfast refusal to do the most effective action to limit abortion. Finally, your strawman argument about leaving only outlaws with guns assumes the most idiotic method of gun control implementation.

Claire Guest

December 20, 201210:09pm

Paul, I believe with all my heart that the concrete actions listed here are GOD's response to this tragedy and ALL tragedies: 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

Claire Guest

December 20, 201210:08pm

P.S. to Paul: I also believe that the nation's grief-stricken response to the reality of LITTLE CHILDREN being so heartlessly murdered is also GOD's APPEAL to our collective conscience to STOP THE KILLING of the youngest, most innocent, most helpless children among us! THINK about it: They are killed by their own parents' decision! What if those Newtown children's own parents had been the shooters??? I believe the Lord wants us to stop and consider that MORE THAN 20 children are KILLED LEGALLY every single day in this nation, and that "the people are willing to have it so." THINK about it: WHAT if 20 young children, such as those in Newtown, were killed EVERY DAY for the next 40 years??? As of 1/22/2013, this will be the REALITY in this nation! Actually, I'm sure the average is FAR MORE than 20 per day, since the total now is very near 60 MILLION little babies.

Paul Schryba

December 20, 20129:46pm

Rick: We are of the new testament, not the old. God raised up violent defenders in the Old, not new. The incident where Jesus told his followers to arm themselves was specific to the Passion; even after that, the night of the Passion Jesus told Peter to put down his sword. When Jesus drove out the moneychangers, in John a whip of cords was used; the whip was a weapon of punishment, not an effective offensive/defensive weapon. When he told the disciples to go out, he did not tell them to protect themselves with weapons. Jesus says, "my kingdom is not of this world" (John 18: 36) and "fear not him who can kill the body,..."(Lk 12:4) Romans 13: 3-4 refers not to Christians in general, but 'rulers'- the Romans, who at the time were pagan. That can be likened to the Old Testament prophets, who said the Assyrians and Babylonians were God's agents in punishing Israel. It could be interpreted as the government being responsible to use violence to protect the people.

Paul Schryba

December 20, 20129:43pm

Claire: "What concrete actions do you believe God wants Christians to take in response to the CT school shootings, and only the CT school shootings?"

Claire Guest

December 20, 20129:26pm

P.S. to Wayne: If you consider those 20 children to be "sacrifices for the Second Amendment", what do you consider those 60 MILLION (and counting, daily!) ABORTED children to be "sacrifices" for???

Claire Guest

December 20, 20129:22pm

Wayne, you say, "These children were our sacrifice for the Second Amendment", but there is no evidence for this emotionally-charged statement which blames anyone who does not believe that only outlaws should have guns. I could just as easily (and accurately) say, "These children were our sacrifice for Gun Control Laws", because Connecticut has strict gun control laws! Do you see the illogical fallacy of your argument?

Wayne Froese

December 20, 20129:19pm

"Fallen world" and "sinful nature" are interesting in that their primary focus is on blaming and demanding change in others. I ran the numbers instead. Are more Christian countries less likely to have deaths by firearms? No. Is rate of abortion related to firearm deaths? No. Is ownership rate a good predictive measure? Yes! Yet many here suggest that arming even more people will have a protective effect. That is contrary to what we see in easily available statistics. We should ask ourselves why Evangelicals want to believe that guns make us safer or even more directly, why do Evangelicals don't look for measures of what they claim to be true and fight it when it is revealed? These children were our sacrifice for the Second Amendment.

Claire Guest

December 20, 20129:19pm

Paul, do you not realize that Connecticut HAS strong gun control laws - some of the strongest in the nation? This is what I've been trying to point out. Gun control laws cannot prevent such tragedies.

Claire Guest

December 20, 20129:09pm

And, yes, there is a real hypocrisy in a nation which grieves so openly (and rightly so) when 20 children are murdered in a school, YET not only IGNORES the willful, purposeful killing of 60 MILLION babies (and counting, daily), BUT is willing for this killing to be totally LEGAL. This is why Obama's declared grief over the Newtown children does not impress me, at all. He has taken a STRONGER stand FOR abortion than any other pol in America today, to the point that, as a Senator, he loudly supported requiring babies who survived abortions to die! Yet MANY Christians voted for him not once, but twice, and these sad facts do not seem to faze them. BUT GOD cares for the little ones! They are THE youngest, THE most innocent, THE most helpless among us. He hears their blood cry out to him just as He heard the blood of Abel cry out from the ground after Cain slew him.

Paul Schryba

December 20, 20129:09pm

Claire: My last brief comment was: "Yes, Claire: I understand you very much oppose abortion and gun control." That was reflecting back your own comment, and made no judgement either for or against outlawing guns. You then say "if guns are outlawed"; I have not in these posts advocated outlawing guns in general; only outlawing certain ones. That, and implementing nationally uniform stricter licensing of gun users and registration of guns will reduce deaths; just like the current licensing and registration requirements for autos. Without licensing and registration, auto deaths would be much higher; which is why we have them. What concrete actions do you believe God wants Christians to take in response to the CT school shootings, and only the CT school shootings?

Claire Guest

December 20, 20128:25pm

Paul S, your brief comment shows that you either didn't read my comments, or else you ignored what I did say. If guns are outlawed, do you really think outlaws will NOT have guns? Then what would happen to a disarmed populace? Are you willing for every schoolchild (and all other innocent, law-abiding citizens) to be at this extreme risk? Grace and Paul (and anyone else who thinks gun control is the answer), MANY more children are killed in car accidents each year. Shouldn't cars be kept off the roads, then?

Rick Dalbey

December 20, 20127:07pm

So Darren, did God plan this evil attack? Why do you say, "If something occurs, He planned it to occur." That sounds like fatalism. As the muslims say, Insallah. But God always raised up defenders in the Old Testament. Gideon, Moses, David. The cry was "the sword of the Lord and Gideon". Perhaps we should not have gone to war to stop Germany? So if a lunatic breaks into your home and is going to kill your family you are going to stand there like a doe caught in the headlights while it happens? You don't believe in lethal defense? Have you told your wife this?

Darren Spiker

December 20, 20126:52pm

I dont have answers about this. It seems right that God takes to Heaven some he wishes to protect from evil that is sure to happen in their lives. The children are safe now and Jesus will be the caretaker of the precious ones. As far as guns...I used to hunt here in western PA and owned guns.That was 30 years ago. Now,at 46,I have no interest anymore. I am with those who believe God will protect me and my family.If something occurs,He planned it to occur.My whole life is in His perfect hands. Get rid of any assult weapons. Another reason to pray to our Father.Have you prayed about that? Hope so.

Rick Dalbey

December 20, 20122:58pm

Jim, Christians in the US have always believed in defending their country, defending their family or coming to the defense of others (like the Jews of Germany or kids of Newtown) with deadly weapons. Only a few small sects, the Amish or Quakers were pacifists. To not defend your family is shameful. Christians are highly principaled. Christians also tend to respect the constitution because it was written over much prayer by our founders who were Christians or Biblical Deists. We don’t need the pretense of hunting to own a gun, though many of us do. Jesus said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!” Luke 22:35. Paul said of Roman soldiers “He beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Rom. 13:3 I am for responsible restrictions but not gun bans. I do not own a gun nor am I a member of the NRA. Adam was restricted from buying a gun but that didn't stop him

Jim Gustafson

December 20, 201212:44pm

Amazing to me how many Christians are so passionately against gun control -- especially high-powered, high capacity, high rate-of-fire military-style weapons. Why, Christians? Is your faith in your weaponry, instead of your God? Even if a case can be made from American law and constitution, why is this a CHRISTIAN stance? If it is, why should not Christians around the world petition their govenments for similar rights? Man is evil, granted. America is less ethical/moral/socially cohesive than it was (I really hesitate to say it is less Christian). But if so, then why allow evil men to have weapons of mass destruction? An evil man with a weapon such as I describe above will do more damage than an evil man with a six-shot revolver. And they are called Assault Weapons for a reason. I don't assault a deer, I shoot it. I don't need an Assault Weapon.

Grace Duplessis

December 20, 201212:14pm

Claire, nobody is arguing your stance against abortion. God has given you this passionate calling and you are trying to do something about it and I respect that fact. But again, there is no logic in attempting to connect abortion to a mass shooting. By this logic, every country that provides safe, legal abortions has experienced school shootings. This is not the case. You could also argue that there was no childhood obesity before abortion was legalized. Does this also mean that abortion is the underlying cause of childhood obesity? I know that the reasons for this tragic event are not simple. But what I do know is that this young man was troubled and also had easy access to legal weapons of mass death. There is a direct correlation whether people want to admit it or not.

Paul Schryba

December 20, 20127:51am

Yes, Claire: I understand you very much oppose abortion and gun control.

Claire Guest

December 19, 201210:58pm

When our youngest children became disposable human beings with no recognized inherent value attached to their lives, with our government's FULL APPROVAL as of 1/22/73, this dehumanization caused severe desensitization among the nation's populace. Sad to say, this is obvious even here, in some posters' comments. After the killing of nascent children was legalized in this nation, we began hearing of teens giving birth to little babies in bathrooms at school and elsewhere, leaving them in toilets and trash cans to die. There weren't ANY school shootings in America until after abortion was made legal and millions of babies were systematically destroyed. I see much more passion for animal rights than for human rights in this nation! This is the result of Godlessness ever increasing in this land. God destroyed EVERY thing and everyone on the whole earth except Noah and his family because of VIOLENCE (see Genesis 6), and guns hadn't even been invented yet. SIN, not guns, is THE PROBLEM.

Claire Guest

December 19, 201210:44pm

Some non-Christians post incredible leaps of (il)logic. here How ludicrous it is that one here has accused American Christians of being responsible for crimes committed with guns, with zero evidence. Has any MSM outlet made it clear that CT is a very stringent gun-control state? If, as the thesis goes, gun control could have prevented this tragedy, it could never have happened in CT. Adam Lanza tried to buy a gun a week or so in advance, but wasn't able to because he would not go through the required channels. Something else to consider: Over 200 children under the age of 16 were killed this year and an average of 180 are killed each year by drunk drivers. Has the government made any attempt to ban or eliminate alcohol from society? Absolutely not. Why? Could it be because alcohol brings in federal taxes? TRUTH like this needs to be thoroughly disseminated across our nation before knee-jerk reactions which cannot prevent or solve this issue are allowed to become dangerous laws.

Paul Schryba

December 19, 20129:29pm

So much for my 'final comment...' sorry. The need for conversion of heart and incarnating love is primary if we consider ourselves followers of Jesus.

Paul Schryba

December 19, 20129:17pm

Rick: Amen! With respect to Canada, Canada requires that gun owners be licensed and in general to take a safety course. [http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/lic-per-eng.htm] That is not universally required in the US. In the past, all guns-restricted and non-restricted- were required to be registered. That ended in April 2012- only restricted guns (except in Quebec) need now be registered. [http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/online_en-ligne/reg_enr-eng.htm] It remains to be seen what that will do to the gun crime rate there. AR-15s are restricted weapons and limited to 5 round clips in Canada; smaller capacity clips require more frequent changing and slow the rate of firing. In the US, fully automatic guns must be registered, are Federally regulated, and cost more to license. Relatively few crimes are committed with them.

Rick Dalbey

December 19, 20128:30pm

I agree completely Paul. "Each of us needs to examine our own hearts to see where we need conversion, and how we can better respond individually and as a community in incarnating God's love in our own life and relationships." Banning weapons is not the answer, though I think we should tighten laws. I just find it curious that people hold up Canada as a country as an example of gun control but the guns that Adam used are legal in Canada, such as the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. They just ask you use smaller mags. The Columbine killers used 2 shotguns, a manual rifle and a semi-automatic pistol and homemade bombs, no assualt rifles. There is something wrong with the soul of America and the causes are complex. It starts with me walking in the Spirit.

Paul Schryba

December 19, 20127:47pm

J Thomas: Some states do have strict licensing and registration; others do not. Florida for example does not. [http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_fl.htm] My statement stands-your broad, general and unreferenced statement does not. Rick Dalbey: Assault rifles can be automatic or semi-automatic. The AR-15 is the semi-automatic civilian version of the M-16. Current interpretation of federal law makes it extremely difficult for individuals to purchase fully automatic weapons. The assault weapons ban of 1994-2004 was for semi-automatic assault weapons, which includes the AR-15 used in CT. If 'wicked hearts' are the problem, isn't God's love the answer and not laws (though laws are needed in this world)? "Each of us needs to examine our own hearts to see where we need conversion, and how we can better respond individually and as a community in incarnating God's love in our own life and relationships." Why don't you respond to that?

Paul Springer

December 19, 20127:00pm

Gun control is not the problem or the answer. Guns will always be available no matter where you live in this universe. The problem is sin. Ever since the Garden experience humans have attempted to control their environment. With the fruit of the tree of wisdom they have the "mind" of God.The result: a sick, crazy and dying world, producing sick, crazy and dying people. What do you expect . There has been :craziness" and "sickness" since the Garden and it will continue until our Savior bursts thru in the Second Advent and restores the Garden.
Our leadership world-wide is impotent seeking on their own greedy desires and power. However, if you have read the end of the Book you knows who wins. The only solution to the mayhem which faces this globe is Jesus Christ: pure and simple. Thank God for that promise.

Rick Dalbey

December 19, 20122:27pm

Something else is going on in America besides gun availability. Suppose we outlaw fully automatic assault weapons like the AK-47 or the M-16. That is not what Adam used. He used a semi-automatic rifle and pistols. Those are common in hunting and sports competition. We can talk about Canada, but GUNS ARE LEGAL IN CANADA. Semi-automatic rifles and handguns are legal there. Here: “The Three Legal Classes of Firearms in Canada: Non-restricted firearms are ordinary hunting and sporting rifles, shotguns and airguns with an overall length of 660mm or greater. Many airguns fall into this class because they are capable of achieving a muzzle velocity of 500 feet per second. If it is a centrefire semi-automatic firearm, the barrel length must be at least 470mm to be non-restricted. These firearms must be stored, transported and displayed according to Federal regulations and you need a firearms licence to possess them.” America has a fascination with the death culture that Canada doesn't share.

Bill Both

December 19, 20122:05pm

We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.
Romans 15: 1-2
I believe that stringent gun control is essential as well as more funding for mental health programs. Hopefully that will be a positive outcome of this awful tragedy.
That said, we as Christians also need to reach out in love to troubled kids in our community and encourage our kids to do the same. I was struck by a PBS clip in which a former classmate of Adam Lanza's wished he had done just that. There are troubled kids all around us. We need to show them the love of Jesus.

ETHEL C Davis

December 19, 20121:20pm

I agree with you that such occurances are not new. They have been around since old biblical times. When this is said to people, even Christians, their response is interesting [my opinion]. It seems to me that Christians are not willing to accept the negative things that occur in life as being God tolerated, i.e. since the days of old. I am not insensitive to the happenings in Newtown, I cried and am still crying. It IS hard to understand the meaning of why such a thing could happen to 5, 6, 7 year old children. I am so glad that I know their is a GOD who watches over little children in times like this, brings them home to him, and then will heal the land {in due season}. While we will never forget the incident, let us keep in mind, God favors us, cares about us, and desires our worship, in times like these! Newtown, I am praying with and for you during this most difficult season of your life.

J Thomas

December 19, 201211:19am

Paul, I'm not sure if you understand this, but guns are registered to their owners and highly regulated.

J Thomas

December 19, 201211:17am

James, I wouldn't mind if they did. The NRA is not evil. Enough with the crazy far left extremist nonsense.

Paul Schryba

December 19, 201210:02am

Finally (for me): If, as Claire Guest has quoted, "the heart of man is desperately wicked above all things" and is the underlying problem; where do we need to place our time and attention most-on gun control issues? What is God calling each of us to in this? Did not the prophets of old call Israel when Israel was attacked to look not at the evil of the attackers, but to where they were sinful and failing to follow God? Did not Jesus say to remove the mote from our own eye first? If 'wicked hearts' are the problem, isn't God's love the answer and not laws (though laws are needed in this world)? Each of us needs to examine our own hearts to see where we need conversion, and how we can better respond individually and as a community in incarnating God's love in our own life and relationships. May we fully surrender to the grace of Love/Light in the gift of the present moment. Blessed Holy-days/Christmas.

Paul Schryba

December 19, 20129:11am

J Thomas: You are right. Banning any kind of gun is not a solution. However- we register vehicles; we license drivers, make sure they are minimally qualified to drive a vehicle, we take away the right to drive when it is abused, we prohibit certain people from driving; we require certain safety, environmental and performance features on vehicles, and certain vehicles are banned from public roads. With respect to guns; registration and licensing with minimal knowledge and performance testing and safety training are not uniformly required across the US. Assault weapons were designed for war and the most efficient killing of human beings, not civilian use. One doesn't need an assault rifle to hunt or for self defense. Banning them will reduce their availability and provide another way to jail criminals. Where does Jesus say to trust in guns and to respond to violence and threats of violence with violence?

James Stevenson

December 19, 20128:06am

J Thomas. I just have to ask. Did the NRA script this post for you?

J Thomas

December 18, 201210:35pm

Those who politicize this issue for the benefit of their political agenda are part of the problem in this country. You continue to ignore that these people have an individual responsibility not to kill other people. It is the fault of this person that this happened, not the fault of gun laws. Hold people responsible for their crimes. Teach right and wrong in school. But banning any sort of weapon is an absolutely ludicrous 'solution'. It's not a solution at all. People need to take a step back and actually think about this rather than letting emotional zombies on the news sway them with appeals to their emotions. Those same people believe that you are herd animals who can be swayed by nothing but emotional appeals, that you arent rational creatures. Prove them wrong.

Wayne Froese

December 18, 20129:47pm

The surprising thing is that all of these statements about the cause of the killings are testable. We can agree that I am sinful. You are sinful. The killer was sinful. But only the killer was the killer. Show me that more secular societies have more gun violence. I am sure that we can develop numbers and run a regression test. I would bet that we would not find the correlation that is being implied (no matter what religion you choose). For that matter, show me numbers demonstrating that Christians sin less than others. Instead consider that this killing is directly related to firearm issues. Examine the relationship between per capita firearms and firearm deaths. You will conclude that these lives were part of the cost for our implementation of the second amendment. We (unwisely and fairly indiscriminately) gave up plenty of freedoms after 9/11. Let's start the long road back from the gun nation we've become.

Dewey Williams

December 18, 20128:31pm

Where is God following Sandy Hook?
Some have asked, where is God? The theodicy question shows it omnipresence in times of deep pain and horrible outcomes. Where was God? has been asked this past week as our nation struggles following the unthinkable massacre of first graders and school staff at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. This is a legitimate question that deserves to be heard, pondered, and responded to by those of us who say we know a loving God.
In the biblical account of Jesus calming the storm on the sea, in Mark 4, the disciples awaken Jesus and ask him, “Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?” In essence they were questioning the Lord presence and action in their time of despair. Jesus rebuffed the waves and wind and brought peace in the middle of their fears and torments. Then Jesus turned the question around and pressed the disciples to be more courageous and consistent with their faith walk. Jesus said, “Why are you afraid? Ha

Paul Schryba

December 18, 20127:40pm

Grace: To confirm your point; how does Jesus teach us to combat evil? To call for more guns? Is this how Christians show their love of God and neighbor, by calling for more guns? Would anyone argue that the Amish life and response to their own mass shooting tragedy is more in line with what Christ says and how he lived than that? That the main response of many Christians to this tragedy seems to be - calling for more guns and justifying gun ownership?

Grace Duplessis

December 18, 20125:57pm

Couple of points: According to the logic, abortion is the underlying reason for these tragic events because we have dehumanized our minds. Now back in the Old Testament, I'm guessing there was no abortion, just a really high infant mortality rate. Why then would God command the Israelites to kill every man, woman, and child and baby of other tribes, and show no mercy? Not just once, but on numerous occasions. Were their minds dehumanized when they committed these mass genocides?:Deut 2:34, Deut 3:6, Deut 7:16, Deut 20:16, Joshua 6:21, Josh 10:40, 1st Samuel 15:2-3. Next point: I moved to this country when I was 15 and have never understood the combination of Christians and firearms. It just doesn't make any sense and it's not really based on anything in the Bible. The fact that Christians think we just need to arm more people is ludicrous. You cannot deny the fact that exponentially more people die in this country from guns than all the other industrialized countries put together

Paul Schryba

December 18, 20125:45pm

J Thomas: "2. 15 of the 25 worst mass shootings in the last 50 years took place in the United States.... 8. More guns tend to mean more homicide.... 9. States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-abou t-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/] [This was published in the Houston Chronicle as well.] While causality cannot be inferred, deaths from mass shootings rose from 20.9 per year during the ban to 54.8 since the end of the assault weapons ban. [http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/14/did-the-federal-ban-on-assault-we apons-matter/] The ban was known to have many loopholes.

J Thomas

December 18, 20124:09pm

Paul, you are making the same leaps in logic that you suggest Claire is. Not only that, but your information is just wrong...showing us that you are not getting your news from reliable sources. Germany, with incredibly strict gun laws, has a worse record of mass shootings than we do. Lets not forget that a man in Norway killed 77 kids last year at a camp. You should broaden your perspective quite a bit and unplug from the political talking points issued en masse from far left outlets like MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS.

Paul Schryba

December 18, 20123:59pm

Claire:You now say abortion is only a symtom of the underlying issue of man's wicked heart. Why are you restating that the legalization of abortion coincides with school shootings, if you are not in fact implying that by passing laws ending abortion school shootings will be reduced? Will passing laws stop the wickedness of man's heart? If passing laws will not change the human heart, and you are still for passing laws banning abortion, why do you oppose banning assault weapons when there is clear evidence of a direct correlation between them and mass shootings as I have previously referenced? Why are you ignoring that many Western nations with stricter gun control laws have less mass shooting and gun violence? And more to the point, how do you think Jesus wants us to deal with school violence- by having people with more guns?

Claire Guest

December 18, 20123:14pm

No false witness here, Shannon. I said "correlation", not "blame". YES, there is of course a direct correlation between dehumanization of people and heartlessly taking their lives, at any age. Abortion is a SYMPTOM of the same problem that caused the tragic shooting - "The heart of man is desperately wicked above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9). You compared 10,000 to 52. How about comparing 10,000 to 60 MILLION (60,000,000), the number of LEGALLY aborted babies since 1/22/73? It is TRUE that there were NO school shootings before abortion was legalized. BTW - you did not answer the question I asked you earlier.

Claire Guest

December 18, 20123:03pm

Shannon, do you assume the shooter would have taken a security guard's gun before the security guard was able to restrain him with it? Why??? Did you miss my reference to the policewoman who was attending a service at a church in Colorado a few years ago and was able to PREVENT a similar (maybe even worse) massacre because she was armed, and thus restrained the shooter before he could do any more harm? It is entirely possible that, if the shooter in CT had known an armed security guard was on the premises, he would not even have attempted to do what he did. Yes, children (and adults) might be alive today if the principal who ran toward the shooter had had a weapon. As it was, she died too.

Shannon IMNOTGOINGTOGIVEYOUMYLASTNAME

December 18, 20122:27pm

Claire, so why is it that countries with strong gun control laws have far less gun deaths than the US? 52 per year in Canada compared to 10,000 in the US.
Having an armed security guard would only provide one more place for an unstable individual to get a gun.

Shannon IMNOTGOINGTOGIVEYOUMYLASTNAME

December 18, 20122:22pm

Claire, you said that no one here was blaming this tragedy on abortion?
" I am shocked that you cannot see the direct correlation between the dehumanization of little babies in their mothers' wombs and the dehumanization of little children who were shot to death in their classrooms last week." Was this not you?
False witness or bad memory?
Well, until these anti-abortion types discard abstinence-only sex education, and embrace contraception and universal health care, I will maintain that their stance on abortion has nothing to do with their concern for the "lives of the unborn", and everything to do with their fear of losing a valuable deterrent to unauthorized hanky-panky.
As for me, damn right I am going to politicize this tragedy. This is exactly what we "gun control" types were afraid would happen. We're going to do everything in our power to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Claire Guest

December 18, 20122:12pm

It's an old cliche', but it's sadly true: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Children (and adults) might be alive today if a security guard at the school had been armed, as was the policewoman who prevented a massacre at the church in Colorado a couple years ago.

Claire Guest

December 18, 20121:59pm

Grace, no one here has blamed this event on abortion. Abortion is a symptom of the same problem that caused the tragic shooting - "the heart of man is desperately wicked above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9). It is TRUE that the dehumanization of children became a serious (far beyond "serious") issue when abortion was legalized. It is TRUE that there were NO school shootings before abortion was legalized. These things are incontrovertible facts. I hope you read Dr. Nathanson's words posted below and took them to heart. He was rabidly pro-abortion for years, to the point that he co-founded NARAL and committed at least 75,000 abortions by his own admission, including at least one on his own child(ren). The advent of ultrasound showed him the REALITY of the child in the womb, he grieved over what he had done, and from then on he was a tireless proponent of telling the TRUTH about nascent children. And he wasn't even a Christian when that happened! He was an atheist at that time.

Grace Duplessis

December 18, 201212:53pm

My heart goes out to the victims and the families of those victims. I can't imagine how those parents are coping right now. Or how they will find peace in the future. This is a time of mourning for those with great loss. It is a time of sadness and reflection for all of us. I think it is disrespectful to those families to be using this tragic event to emphasize and blame this on abortion. I can only hope and pray that people who spend this much time cutting and pasting, ranting and raving on this board spend much more of their personal time caring for foster children in this country, and the thousands upon thousands of unwanted, orphaned children around the world.

Paul Schryba

December 18, 201212:45pm

As Mark Galli said: "And the Son did not rage at the cruel injustice and the waste of a good life at the hands of evil men. All he could seem to say was a prayer that his murderers, who he said did not know what they were doing, be forgiven." That seems to have been the Amish community's response to their own tragedy. They also went out of their way in empathy for the shooter's family.

Helmut Egesa Wagabi

December 18, 201211:47am

Such hideous crimes are committed because the heart of man is desperately wicked and when left to himself, he will want to engage in destruction( Jeremiah 17:9). Those of us who are believers in Christ should realize that He is our resurrection and once we have trusted in Him, we can always hope in His mercy even when everything else seems to have fallen apart( Luke 11:24-27). Christ is the God of all comfort and trusting Him means that we cannot sorrow like the hopeless ones. He will always be present to comfort us(2Corinthians 1:3-5; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:8-11).

David Griswold

December 18, 201211:43am

Mr. Galli: Thank you for this thoughtful article. I hope that a review of firearms laws will now be added to CT's list of issues worthy of debate. Surely it is possible to reconcile our belief in the Innocent One who did not rail against the injustice of evil and our moral obligation to promote public policies that discourage violent acts. You are right that the Connecticut shooter was "a man mad with rage who may not have known what he was doing" but can God's covenant community flourish when deadly weapons are so easy for emotionally troubled people to obtain? You are right that "it will happen again" but does the inevitability of further gun violence absolve us from the responsibility to minimize the number of future innocents whose lives will be lost? A community that witnesses to the preciousness of human life must not remain on the sidelines of the national conversation about firearms laws that is now about to resume.

Claire Guest

December 18, 201210:00am

Ralph, it HAS been proven. See Dr. Nathanson's statement below:

Claire Guest

December 18, 20129:59am

"How did I change from prominent abortionist to pro-life advocate? In 1973, I became director of obstetrics of a large hospital in New York City and had to set up a prenatal research unit, just at the start of a great new technology which we now use every day to study the foetus in the womb. A favourite pro-abortion tactic is to insist that the definition of when life begins is impossible; that the question is a theological or moral or philosophical one, anything but a scientific one. Foetology makes it undeniably evident that life begins at conception and requires all the protection and safeguards that any of us enjoy. Why, you may well ask, do some American doctors who are privy to the findings of foetology, discredit themselves by carrying out abortions? Simple arithmetic at $300 a time, means an industry generating $500,000,000 annually, of which most goes into the pocket of the physician doing the abortion." - Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of NARAL

Claire Guest

December 18, 20129:59am

WOW, Paul, I am shocked that you cannot see the direct correlation between the dehumanization of little babies in their mothers' wombs and the dehumanization of little children who were shot to death in their classrooms last week. After the killing of nascent children was legalized in this nation, we began hearing of teens giving birth to little babies in bathrooms at school (even at home) and leaving them in toilets or trash cans to die. It is absolutely TRUE that there weren't ANY school shootings in America until after abortion was made legal and millions of babies were systematically destroyed - this devaluing of human life has indeed desensitized a whole generation of Americans to the value of human beings. I see much more passion for animal rights than for human rights in this nation! This is the result of Godlessness ever increasing in our nation. God destroyed EVERY thing and everyone except Noah and his family because of VIOLENCE, and guns hadn't been invented yet.

Ralph

December 18, 20129:50am

We have been desensitized with killing innocent babies everyday thru partial birth abortion and my pray is that our hearts again will be in shock like we have seen thru this tragedy in Connecticut. If it could be proven that the human fetus is just as alive and just as human as the infant or a child of 6 or 7, then these objections would not justify aborting a fetus any more than an infant. It is a barbaric death just like these innocent children.

Pax Paws

December 18, 20127:48am

Is this whole situation Hopeless? One might be lead to think that from various comments here. What if God is actually sending a 911 call to The Church, Christ's Body, to Arise and Shine? Christ lives IN us. We should know His voice and see where He is working in lives if we are more than lukewarm in our relationship with Him. How many alienated, fatherless, troubled young men and families do we have to see fall through the societal cracks and suffer atrocities before we realize the Lord is calling US to a change of heart, calling us to be His Servants of Compassion (seeing others with His Heart) instead of His sales persons. Do we know our neighbors and their hidden needs? Members in our own families? Co-workers? Do we listen to the enemy's promptings that it is none of our business or that we are too busy? Or do we Touch, with our connecting hearts pointing to God? Lord, please continue to bless the families suffering these immeasuable losses; and help us to Love.

Paul Schryba

December 18, 20126:53am

Christians are called to love. Nearly all the individuals involved in mass shootings were seriously troubled; we should be asking what part the community played in failing to care for these individuals (no, the community was not responsible, the individuals were). We should be looking at Christian communities; how many mass murders have the Amish committed, and what was their response to their own tragedy? Where are we as Christians called to deeper conversion?

Paul Schryba

December 18, 20126:44am

Abortion did not desensitize people to violence; a culture of materialism, pleasure seeking and and for profit greed did and does. The NRA has been the primary opponent of gun control legislation; it is backed by weapons manufacturers who stand to make more profit by selling more guns. Legalized abortion did not cause the school shootings. Most mass school shootings have been carried out by shooters who used semi-automatic assault weapons; weapons that were banned for a time. The assault rifle as we know it was developed in 1944; America did not produce assault rifles in mass until the M-16 of the Vietnam War; this was first marketed to civilians in the early 60s. The rise in mass shootings coincides with the assault rifle. Deaths from mass shootings rose from 20.9 per year during the ban to 54.8 since the end of the ban. [http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/14/did-the-federal-ban-on-assault-we apons-matter/] It was a gun enthusiast whose guns and son did the most recent killing.

Rick Dalbey

December 18, 20121:30am

We're all believers here so we get to offer a unique spiritual point of view, not just legislation or politics. Galli cited the example of the death of innocents with the killing of thousands of babies during Herod’s time. Then He alluded to trains full of children killed in death camps by Nazis. It seemed to me the analogous great tragedy in our day which has desensitized our society to infant death is the 60 million killed in hygienic clinics for convenience and profit since 1973. The scale is unparalleled in history. Claire’s point was that “There weren't ANY school shootings in America until after abortion was made legal and millions of babies were systematically destroyed - this devaluing of human life has indeed desensitized a whole generation of Americans.” Yes, tighten up gun laws. Find solutions to reform teen death culture. Get fathers involved. Look at mental health issues or income inequality (tho it doesn't seem at issue here). But, J Thomas’s scripture quote is spot on!

Paul Schryba

December 18, 201212:09am

J Thomas: God who is truth knows who is trying to 'politicize' this issue. This article was clearly in response to the school yard shootings, not abortion. Though it is right to point out that abortion is the death of innocents as well. As to 'winning points for my team', I have no political team. I have criticized both liberals and conservatives. My point was to "keep our eyes on Jesus..." and "decry the violence in our own hearts". If Jesus is my team, then I am guilty; I don't believe that Jesus would say that "packing heat" and passing laws against abortion is where the solution to evil lies. Sorry for venting and being a bit sarcastic in my last post.

J Thomas

December 17, 201211:11pm

Paul, please stop trying to politicize this issue to score some points for your political team. Thank you.

Paul Schryba

December 17, 201211:09pm

Yes, why don't we keep our eyes on abortions and liberals, instead of Jesus...there is no need to decry the violence and hatred in our own hearts; no need to look at school yard shootings, mental health issues, personal alienation; poverty and wealth inequality; only oppose abortion and liberals. Jesus wants us to pack heat and stop abortion; we overcome evil by packing heat and legislating against abortion. [This is an ironic exaggeration to make a point, by the way.]

J Thomas

December 17, 201211:05pm

2 Tim 3:1-5; "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God&mdash; having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people."

Claire Guest

December 17, 20129:54pm

Shannon, are you a Christian? (I've learned that not all posters here are believers.) The Lord has made it clear in His Word that little babies in the womb are not just zygotes, they are human beings. This has actually been proven by medical science via the development of ultrasound, but some doctors deny this for various reasons, a chief one being love of money. Your accusation of Americans here "teaching kids not to care" is simply not true, at all. And your earlier accusation of Romney was not true. Even before America was attacked on 9/11, Dems (Clinton, Gore, Albright, etc) were warning of WMDs in Iraq/Afghanistan. Then, when Bush (with Congress' approval) made the decision to go to war, suddenly many of those same Dems developed amnesia. There weren't ANY school shootings in America until after abortion was made legal and millions of babies were systematically destroyed - this devaluing of human life has indeed desensitized a whole generation of Americans to this reality.

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 20129:51pm

Abortion whiners? 60 million babies dead since 1973 and you call us abortion whiners? 163 million girls, JUST GIRLS, dead in Asia due to selective gender abortion and you call us whiners? What is your problem?

Shannon IMNOTGOINGTOGIVEYOUMYLASTNAME

December 17, 20129:39pm

Paul, that's bull. They have the same games and movies in Europe, Canada, Japan and Australia. What they don't have is school shootings.
And as for all you abortion whiners, when did two wrongs make a right? You teach your kids not to care when it's uninsured Americans or Iraqis dying. Why should we care about zygotes? You claim to care about the "unborn", but you don't seem to care about the already born. So why should we follow you?

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 20126:42pm

Paul, I agree with you. I am for good gun control laws, for licensing, for harsh consequences for violations, for responsible behavior short of altering the Bill of Rights. It is not a panacea though. I don't own a gun. I did several years ago when I went deer hunting every fall. Nor do I have a problem with a homeowner, especially a single woman, owning a gun for self-defense. But America's teens are in love with mayhem. From Gangsta Rap to bloody revenge video games, bloody movies, we are awash in a tide of pornographic violence. Loners can put in the earbuds and lose themselves in revenge fantasies. Directors like Quentin Tarantino keep pumping it out as he did this week with Django.

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 20126:26pm

Tim, why? This is Mark's essay is on the death of the innocents. Mark cites the example of "There is something especially galling about the innocent being killed. Like the 1940s French Jewish children, boxed up in train cars and shipped off to Auschwitz at the hands of another man filled with rage. It is a mystery why God allows the innocent to suffer. But he does." He also brings up the thousands of babies slaughtered by Herod. Newton is our weeping in Ramah moment. The question is, why the slaughter of the innocents? Why? There can be no one more innocent than the unborn who are slain for convenience. That is the environment that 20 year olds like this monster Adam Lanza, the teenagers in Columbine or the shooter in the theater in Aurora are being raised in. This is the de-valuing of life whether recognize it or not. Goth death metal, Gangsta culture, video game mayhem, abortion on demand, Abu Grahib, the absence of Christian values, the absence of fathers is warping our young men.

Paul Schryba

December 17, 20125:53pm

Rick: While there is no 'solution' for evil, society recognizes the need to place societal limits on human behavior. We license drivers, requiring a minimum amount of knowledge to drive an auto. The 'right' to drive an auto is taken away when that right is abused. Pollution control and safety standards are mandated on vehicles, and some vehicles cannot be driven on roads. No one is crying about having their cars taken away. The same common sense approach should apply to the owning and use of lethal weapons. The 'wild west' did not end because more people were packing; it ended because authorities had enough numbers and presence to stop crime. Many police forces have been hampered by cutbacks due to lack of revenue. That gun control laws will not stop evil is no argument for the opposite. Further, are not Christians called to follow Jesus and the Bible? Where does Jesus say to trust in guns and violence? How does Jesus say to overcome evil?

Tim Brady

December 17, 20125:36pm

Could we please mourn these beautiful young children and valiant educators without bringing up abortion?

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 20124:54pm

Mark Galli, editor of CT, wrote on July 23 after the Colorado shooting, “We are kidding ourselves if we think we have within our national grasp an educational or psychological or political solution to evil. There is no solution or explanation for evil.” I agree, except for a return to God. In 1994 the mass slaughter of 937,000 people in Rwanda occured, perpetrated mostly by young men with knives. In 2010 a Chinese man murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping. The city with the toughest gun laws in the nation, Chicago, just saw its 436th murder of 2012 in October, surpassing 435 from 2011. Yet, Chicago and Cook county totally banned assault weapons!! Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owners ID card, issued by the state police to own a weapon. There is a waiting period of 72 hours for a handgun, or 24 hours for a rifle or shotgun. And yet...The most dangerous weapon in America is the abortionists scalpel with 60 million babies killed. Days of Noah...

J Thomas

December 17, 20124:21pm

Absolutely, Claire. Those who are serious about wanting real and lasting change away from incidents like this will look deeper than the ill-timed, vulture-ish politicization of this event. It's our culture, and Christians have a very good seat with a clear view at just how severe the depravity and the violence in our culture. For years our media has fought us tooth and nail to allow this kind of climate to exist in our culture, where they can peddle all sorts of filth to our children. They cry "1st amendment" at any suggestion of restraint. Here again, following an incident directly tied to the influence of media, they want to ignore it and point at a 'solution' that wouldn't make any difference but would suit their political agenda. The media created this monster, its time for them to own it.

Paul Schryba

December 17, 20124:18pm

We are all fallen; we are all tempted to violence, and violence is encouraged by our culture. We accept that violence and the threat of violence is necessary and needed, instead of a last resort. That very acceptance of violence and the need for guns to 'defend' oneself fuels it. "28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28. We do not educate and encourage people to non-violence, to love and peaceful conflict resolution. This incidence of violence should spark us to pray for our own conversion from hatred and sin, to have the strength to show the love of Jesus to others who are hurting and to educate ourselves and others on how to overcome violence in ourselves and face it in others. We should not be rationalizing more violence and the threat of violence as proper ways of resolving human conflict.

KERMIT P SOILEAU

December 17, 20123:57pm

Man's inhumanity to man is timeless, as history shows. The root is man's freedom of choice; given by The Creator. Every murderer chooses to act against God, law, humanity. We are astounded when a man chooses lawlessness that he follows it to the point of pure evil; i.e., Sandy Hook. Jesus said that when a person lowers another to a zero in his mind's estimation, then he is guilty of murder (Matt 5:21,22; study the greek). Hitler convinced millions that Jews were of zero value; thus, it was not hard for those who killed them. The man at Sandy Hook estimated the lives of women & children as zeros; therefore, it was not hard to pump 3 to 11 bullets into innocent faces. Whenever any person lowers the value of another person to "useless, unimportant, negligible" or anything like a zero, there is no limit to their crimes. Gun laws, psychiatric buzz words, even preparation are ineffective against that sort of evil; without a spiritual view, no permanent solutions will be found.

Shannon IMNOTGOINGTOGIVEYOUMYLASTNAME

December 17, 20123:56pm

J Thomas, those same video games and movies are shown in Canada. And yet we had 52 gun deaths last year compared to your 10,000 or so.
But I agree with Claire - the big problem in US culture is a war on morality. However, evangelicals are on the wrong side. You readily pardon any candidate who commits false witness so long as he promises to do something about those nasty homosexuals. Mormonism is a 'cult', until the Republican nominee is a Mormon at which point evangelicals fall over themselves reclassifying it. George Bush lies the nation into a war which kills 5,000 Americans and around 100,000 Iraqis, not to mention wrecking the US economy, and he remains a hero to evanagelicals. Romney expresses his disdain for the poor and disadvantaged - the same people Jesus told us to champion - and evangelicals still turn out to vote for him.
The message here; it's OK to lie. It's OK to not give a damn about others so long as you get your tax break. Just so long as you hate gays.

J Thomas

December 17, 20123:52pm

Norman, something close to 80% of this country considers themselves Christian. I take them at their word. As for allowing a criminal to kill your family...that's your own position and I do not personally believe that its biblical. What if members of your family are not saved? You would choose for them to go to hell rather than to kill an attacker? That's not a reasonable perspective. I think its also untoward for Christians who have that kind of unreasonable perspective to want to force their opinion, through law, on people who need firearms to protect their loved ones. It doesn't help at all to ignore that need, because it is real. Why didn't Japan want to attack the mainland US in WW2? Because they knew our citizens were armed. We have always been free people. Removing the ability of our people to protect themselves immediately enslaves us to a government irreparably.

Claire Guest

December 17, 20123:24pm

It's an old cliche', but it's still true today: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." This does not mean I "support the proliferation of guns" - it's just reality. Since so many of our population are not committed Christians, and since the nation as a whole has kicked God out of public culture, I also cannot support the disarming of law-abiding citizens. The only answer to ending violence is for human HEARTS to change. Because our nation as a whole has kicked God out, has allowed every form of evil to proliferate (our media reflects this sad truth on every level), THIS sort of tragedy is the inevitable result. Even tragedies such as this one pale terribly in comparison to the almost 60 MILLION BABIES who have been LEGALLY KILLED in this country since January 22, 1973 - this reality has produced a desensitized society which grossly devalues human life. It's amazing to me that so few people seem to comprehend this.

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 20123:21pm

Ah, another excuse to attack evangelicals I see. And so it starts "I am dismayed at the way Christians have been sucked into the culture war to the extent that we support the proliferation of guns in our neighborhoods."

DR PAUL JULICH

December 17, 20123:09pm

While I agree that no law can guarantee that this won't happen again, I am dismayed at the way Christians have been sucked into the culture war to the extent that we support the proliferation of guns in our neighborhoods. Isn't it past time that we make the communities that our children live in as safe as possible. Does anyone really believe that an "ambassador for Christ" should be walking around with an assault weapon? If the time is not now, when is it?

NORMAN STOLPE

December 17, 20123:09pm

Fully recognizing that only a tiny portion of the population consider themselves first and foremost to be disciples of Jesus, as one who aspires to that and to follow his lead, I must surrender my demand for self-defense. That determination took Jesus to the cross and is the life path laid out by St. Paul. (Philippians 3:10-11) To become like Jesus in his death, and attain the resurrection from the dead.
Out of love I may do any number of difficult and risky things to protect my family, my friends, my neighbors, even those I don’t know who might think of me as their enemy. But I would like to think that if faced with only these options, I would choose to let an attacker send me into the arms of Jesus than for me to send them to eternal judgment beyond repentance. Can anything less express the love of Jesus?

J Thomas

December 17, 20123:07pm

John, If Obama was really concerned about preventing tragedies like this, he would issue a strong rebuke to Hollywood and video game makers for their incredible propagation of copious amounts of violence. This is absolutely not an issue about guns, and we shouldn't be naive enough to believe so. Its an issue about our cultural turn toward depravity and evil, mainly the culture foisted upon our young people. Wake up and shake free from the political chutes that these people keep herding you into...they lead to your destruction.

John Hubers

December 17, 20122:55pm

@Rick: this is not a "first amendment" issue. This is a deeply personal, pastoral issue. President Obama got it right in his address by speaking to both the grief and the need to address the issues that cause the grief. If I was grieving the loss of a child and knew that what caused that death was not being addressed it would increase my grief, not assuage it. Both are necessary and there is no better time than now.

J Thomas

December 17, 20122:13pm

Shame on the politicians who immediately made this a political wedge issue. Shame on those who continue to do so, distracting from the real issue: our amoral American culture is incredibly evil and violent.

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 20121:49pm

If we want to ban something, how about banning the ultra violent bloody revenge video games that teenage male social loners love to play? These were a factor in this boy's psychotic break as they were in the Columbine Killers and virtually every other teenage boy's revenge killing. I agree with Claire, we have raised a generation that is desensitized to killing by being so casual about 60 million baby deaths since 1973. We have rap music for teenage boys that celebrates killing. When the Bible talks about our time being as it was in the days of Noah, it is talking about pervasive personal violence. Genesis 6:5 "The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil.", "God saw that the earth had become corrupt and was filled with violence." It is a heart transplant that the nation needs.

James Stevenson

December 17, 20121:28pm

Rick, surely the reason is that if action is not taken soon then this tragedy will morph into the past like so many other events and nothing will change. I have been through this before where a teacher was a personal friend and a child was the daughter of a business colleague, and I have extreme sympathy and empathy for those in Ct. I do not want this to happen again!

Rick Dalbey

December 17, 201212:28pm

John, maybe Galli fails to address gun control for a reason. Respect. Why inject a highly contentious second amendment political issue into the raw grief of a national tragedy? Save it for later.

James Stevenson

December 17, 201212:19pm

Nigel, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I recently purchased and read "Politics, according to the bible" by Wayne Grudem a confessed academic, theologian and conservative. In the section on "Self defense and ownership of guns" he essentially advocates the proliferation of more guns in the name of self protection. I see this as a return to the days of the wild west and ask the question if this is the type of society we want in the USA? And then much more is this the type of society we believe that scripture is directing us toward?

John Hubers

December 17, 201212:00pm

This is a wonderfully pastoral piece. What it fails to address is what can be done to ensure it doesn't happen again, or at least make it more difficult. This is how we engender hope - acting as God's peace making agents in a violent world. In this case the answer is clear - strict gun control. Ban assault weapons. Ban handguns, or at least make them nearly impossible to purchase. To ignore this possibility is to sell out to a culture that fetish-izes guns and the violence that they represent. It's time for Christians to say "no more."

J Thomas

December 17, 20121:10am

I think its time for us to realize that what the secular progressives have been shouting at us for so long is true: we are no longer a Christian nation. No longer do we honor God with our law, no longer do we open our communities to Christ, no longer do we allow even a mention of God or anything tangentially associated with him in the public forum, no longer do we promote personal responsibility, no longer do we promote grace and forgiveness, and on and on. We have substituted Christian values for amorality, and thus we have a nation that reflects it. God have mercy on us!

J Thomas

December 17, 20121:02am

We are a sick nation. We live in a fallen world, and nowhere is that more evident than in America. I see advertisements for a movie called "Django Unchained" that promotes a similar brand of revenge killing on TV even today, while parents still grieve. Revenge killing is promoted in the same video games that this sick young man Lanza was obsessed with. NBC, ABC, and CBS pump non-stop depravity and violence into our homes with programs like "CSI", which use dead humans as shocking props of gore and objects to pick evidence from. This is the amoral society that the secular progressives want...and they want to blame it on anyone but themselves. We have given ourselves over to evil, and evil is what we reap. God protect the believers, and grant us grace as the evil propagating furiously in America grows ever more destructive.

Rick Dalbey

December 16, 20121:43am

Wayne, did anyone say this tragic event was a "Judgment on America"? Of course not. This is the malevolence and wrath of the evil one. Who is painting a "sad picture of God" here?

Wayne Froese

December 15, 201210:15pm

Saying that this event and others like it are a judgement on America both paints a sad picture of God and distracts us from facts. A country's rate of firearm deaths and firearm ownership have a high correlation. You can argue that correlation is not causation but at least the discussion has begun to address the problem. These lives are the cost of the second amendment.

Mary Webb

December 15, 20127:38pm

Luje 18:16 because Jesus has welcomed the slain children and surrounds all their families with his compassion and love.

Rick Dalbey

December 15, 20123:35pm

It seems like a Revelation 12 moment to me. "Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child." Why was there mass murder on both coasts last week, from Clackamas on the edge of Oregon to Connecticut? Why the Hurricane in New York, America's first capital before Washington and now tragedy in Connecticut? What possessed these two young men? What was the motivation to slaughter innocents? Anybody read The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn? It may not comfort the parents but least these children are in the arms of Jesus and they will see them again if they give their hearts to Christ.

Claire Guest

December 15, 20121:16pm

"Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!" Psalm 33:12 ESV When nations turn their backs on God, evil rushes in to that vacuum. America is no exception. The violent, purposeful, senseless deaths of 20 children is a tragedy which is recognized by everyone across the nation. BUT almost 60 MILLION little children have died violent, purposeful, senseless deaths LEGALLY in this nation since January 22, 1973. Who weeps for them? GOD DOES. Their blood cries out to Him as surely as Abel's did. But many Americans willfully refuse to consider, or grieve, the daily tragedy of their deaths. This nation is in desperate need of true, humble, heart-rending, life-changing revival. 2 Chronicles 7:14 is still as true today as it was centuries ago. God hasn't changed and man hasn't either. Without God there is NO HOPE, there is NO LOVE, there is NO PEACE.

Nigel Tomes

December 15, 20129:51am

The article's theological viewpoint is all well & good, However there's also the need for a sociological-political viewpoint.
The facts about gun violence in the US speak for themselves. There are 3 gun-related homicides in the US per 100,000 people per year. In Canada (my own country of residence) that rate is 0.78 per year; Germany 1.10 per year. In the UK the gun-homicide rate is 0.03--only one-percent of the US. A major difference-gun control legislation. It's time for US citizens in general & US Christians in particular to stand up & say--we can't let this carnage continue. In China, during the last week, a deranged citizen attacked children at a school wounding 22 children. None, however died. The difference--gun control. The deranged citizen's weapon was a large knife (not a US-style semi-automatic). Maybe it's simplistic & idealistic, but (may I humbly suggest, as a Canadian Christian) it's time for US Christians (who back the right-to-life principle) to back gun-control

Emily Gibson

December 15, 20129:27am

from Zechariah's Song
...the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.
Luke 1: 78-79
My sole consolation:
Only God can glue together
what evil has shattered.
He just asks us to hand Him
the pieces of our broken hearts.

Barbara Shafer

December 15, 20127:02am

Luke 18:16 "But Jesus called the children to him and said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.'" The families whose children were killed in this senseless act of violence will feel the pain of this as long as they tread this earth. To make matters worse, a holiday season of Christmas or Hanukkah will serve as a painful memory marker instead of a celebration. Their void will be filled with a combination of God and questions about what happens to children who die. Having lost a child through stillbirth 3 days before Christmas in 1998, I know this personally. I'd encourage pastors to read page 3 of an article I wrote on "Asking All the Wrong Questions About Abortion" because how pastors minister to people who have lost children can either bless or harm them at an already vulnerable and devastating time.

dennis mullen

December 15, 20126:51am

He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned&mdash;every one&mdash;to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

PETER WIDMER

December 15, 20121:09am

Who earns at the sale of firearms, which party does not want to prevent this? Not Obama!
"Then they will cry out to the Lord,
but he will not answer them.
At that time he will hide his face from them
because of the evil they have done.
This is what the Lord says:
“As for the prophets
who lead my people astray,
if one feeds them,
they proclaim ‘peace’;
if he does not,
they prepare to wage war against him."
Mi 3,4-5

Charles Stearns

December 14, 20126:16pm

18 And I said, My strength and my hope is perished from the Lord:
19 Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall.
20 My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me.
21 This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.
22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
Lamentations 3 KJV

Gary Barker

December 14, 20125:52pm

Rev.
Chapter 21
The New Heaven and the New Earth
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away