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Glad to see Duke interacting with Izzy in ASB this week, and the others mentioned.

"We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
"All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
"There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. MillerStephanie Brown Wiki, My Reviews

I wouldn't mind if Duke had more interactions with the batfamily. The cursed wheel is a cool idea and it would be interesting to know what they stand for so having Duke interact with the specific member sounds like a good way to go.

Im not a huge Damian Wayne fan so i didnt mind not seeing him in Batman at first. After a while it was weird because the kid is 13 so keeping more tabs on him than the other members feels like an obvious thing to do. Maybe someone should ask King on Twitter why isnt he used in the main title as much?

Anyway to get this back on the Appreciation track. This week's All Star was good Duke's Backup story was certainly the highlight for me. And the team getting a shout out and the pictures on the wall was pretty cool. I want to know what name the kids came up with though

I'm pretty tired of this nonsense competition about which of the Robins needs more exposure in Batman main books.

Duke is the new kid of the block. It's normal to him appears in the Batman books, even if he only occupies two pannels, not more. He's not ocuping space than other supposedly deserves by decree

And even if he will occupies more and more space (a LOT more than now) is really something bad? Because, as far I know, if Dick didn't leaves Bruce at that moment, Nightwing wouldn't exist. If Jason didn't die and resurrect we wouldn't have Red Hood. And if Damian didn't push Tim to get out, we wouldn't have Red Robin or Robin.

People don't like changes or something new at all, they are reluctant to accept them, it's normal. And yes, sometimes those changes are for worse. But without those changes we wouldn't have the characters we enjoy today.

I'm 100% sure than the former Robins, at their moment, received the same coments and rejection that Duke receives now. And look how they ended.

I'm pretty tired of this nonsense competition about which of the Robins needs more exposure in Batman main books.

Duke is the new kid of the block. It's normal to him appears in the Batman books, even if he only occupies two pannels, not more. He's not ocuping space than other supposedly deserves by decree

And even if he will occupies more and more space (a LOT more than now) is really something bad? Because, as far I know, if Dick didn't leaves Bruce at that moment, Nightwing wouldn't exist. If Jason didn't die and resurrect we wouldn't have Red Hood. And if Damian didn't push Tim to get out, we wouldn't have Red Robin or Robin.

People don't like changes or something new at all, they are reluctant to accept them, it's normal. And yes, sometimes those changes are for worse. But without those changes we wouldn't have the characters we enjoy today.

I'm 100% sure than the former Robins, at their moment, received the same coments and rejection that Duke receives now. And look how they ended.

Nobody boycotted the Batman book because of them. Yet it is happening due to Duke.

Nobody screamed where is blank when Damian was with his Dad and the others were in their respective books.

Nobody belittle Teen Titans, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, Batwoman, Son of Batman and other books-saying it's more important for (blank) to be in those cameos slots instead of Duke.

None of those fanbases have their intelligence constant insulted for liking Duke.

It gets to a point of when can King or whoever tell the story that they want to do about Duke? Can we get a thread that does not turn into a crapfest like any Inhuman or Sam Alexander thread?

Nrama: The back-up stories in All-Star Batman are exploring Duke Thomas. Can you talk about this story arc in the back-up stories and what you're exploring for this character? Is the revelation of his role in the Bat-universe coming up?

Snyder: Yeah, yeah, issue #9, the next issue, is where there are some big revelations about him, and he ends up understanding what his role in Gotham and in the DCU is going to be.

And it continues into some of the material we're going to do over the summer, where he really lands officially.

I'd like him to be a character that we give someone new a chance on — you know, and I'll help with it. But really try to take a risk with him and try something and see if there's room for somebody who has a different mission, different take, different things.

But the idea with this story arc is, I wanted to bring back a lot of elements from his past, so this brings back Izzy from We Are Robin, a series I really loved. It brings back his origin — the first time he appeared in "Zero Year. He meets Batman in the opening pages of "Zero Year," but his actual first meeting with Batman, in the narrative, is when he's trying to solve a crossword puzzle to help Batman defeat the Riddler, to help Bruce defeat the Riddler.

So in that way, we're trying to bring a lot of that material back here to make it sort of come full circle so we can launch him forward at the end.

Okay, so I though about it and I think that I can now try to explain what Duke position in the Batfamily and why it makes him unique.

Duke is the bridge between the vigilantes of Gotham and its citizens.

If one look at his past, it is all there. He was first introduced by day, trying to solve crosswords to defy the Riddler by day, before a crowd. it was something Batman was loath to do at that time. He had tried to stop Riddler from the shadows but hadn't stepped into the light at that time, and he was forced to do so to confront the master of Zero Year. It was, however, insufficient and he had to finish the Riddler in the darkness of the Museum, because, all in all, the peoples of Gotham hadn't the will to take matters into their own hands. Duke is latter reintroduced during Endgame, where the peoples of Gotham have been turned into Batman's enemies because of the Joker. This new toxin create a strong hatred toward those you love, and the citizens of Gotham being against Batman prove that they care about him, but all in all, they don't act on this love for him, not really.

Then we go to We Are Robin, Robin War and Superheavy. In those three storylines, Duke is trying to find his parents while the majority of the population has grown ever more apathetic in the face of crimes. By joining the Robins, Duke becomes a part of a social movement which intends to change Gotham for the better. The Robins are young people, somewhat disillusioned with the way their town is going and who intends to change this course to steer it toward better days. In the New 52 Gotham, it is a first (and even from the few I truly know of Gotham pre-52, there wasn't that many examples of such a movement. Even in No Man's Land, it's the police forces who are acting on the behalf of Gotham citizens and not really those common citizens). The Robins become public enemies because of the Court of Owls (a shadowy organization) but even then they still brazenly operate into the day and night. And during Superheavy, Mr. Bloom is a twisted version of the Robins : instead of peoples banding together to better their city, Mr. Bloom offered superpowers to wreak havoc and destroy Gotham, pretending that it would allow a more beautiful and peaceful city to take place. But his goal of absolute destruction, which rested on people's desperation, was turned upside down by the hope Batman's return brought. Still, Batman is lacking an associate able to channel the peoples to action effectively.

Enters Duke Thomas. This boy has had his parents infected by the Joker's Virus apparently forever, still he has taken to action in a social movement Batman has nothing to do with at first, a movement which has, in fact, chosen to associate itself with Robin, a character with vibrant and hence visible colours. This is thus a movement which wants to be seen and heard. That's why Duke's costume is yellow and black : this young man is halfway between the world of Batman (hence the black on the costume and the gift of it by Bruce) and the peoples of Gotham (hence the yellow and the fact that it will be children who will name Duke's superhero identity). The goal of Batman here is not to create a new Robin, that is a youth brought fully in the dark side of Gotham. it's to create an hero who can propel peoples into actions by daylight to better the city. Someone who isn't seeding fear or wonder (like Batman and Robin) but constructive hope so that the peoples can get busy and reclaims their lives.

If I'm right, then it opens several storylines unique for Duke. The first is obviously that he'll have to propel peoples into action, which would require the help of the We Are Robin kids, who have a web of relations and skills which can help him achieving this goal. Julie Madison would obviously play a large part in it as well. Once the social movement would have been implemented, Duke would have to deal with those who would oppose it, openly (classical villains) and shadowy (the Court of Owls mainly). But he would also have to deal with those people he would have pushed into action and who takes it too far. Are they people who legitimately wants to do good but simply are too rough and violent at first or people who use the social movement as an excuse to let their worst instincts roam freely ? Duke would also have to deal with the likes of the Victims Syndicate, since he himself is a victim of Batman's war on crime.

Then, there would be his relationship with Gotham-Girl, which could introduce some more personal difficulties to his arcs : is propelling the peoples to action is truly worth it since Gotham now has a truly Superhero ? On the opposite, how would he react to Claire using her powers, which kills her a little bit everytime she does ? Would he try to strengthen the movement so Claire has less reasons to use her powers ? Would he try to convince her to drop those powers altogether ? Would he try to find a cure, something which would allow Gotham-Girl to still have her powers without dying ? The last one could be possible, since he would probably want to save the girl he'll fall in love with instead of losing her like he has lost his parents. There would also be the question of how a normal human feels in a relationship with an extremely powerful "meta" (something which hasn't been explored into the Batman's Universe for years now) with a tinge of tragedy.

Obviously, some could argue that there is no need of Duke in the Batfamily to have those storylines, Tim Drake could do the job. But I disagree. Since Rebirth, we have seen two things when it comes to Tim : he wanted to drop the life of vigilantes to become something else (which would also be a great storyline) but, more importantly, he dreamt of a Bat-organization, wearing the brand of Batman and under the control of the Batfamily. It isn't what I think Duke role will have. Tim envisioned himself as the leader of an organization, something structured strictly, with rules and codes; Duke would (and I fact I think will) be the figurehead of a movement greater than himself, he wouldn't have control over it, at best he would inspire it. Where Tim wanted something to shape into an effective tool, Duke would be the interface between Gotham's day and Gotham's night, so to speak. I also think that there is a reason the Colony was the first enemy of the Batfamily in Detective Comics Rebirth : they are everything which could go wrong with Tim idea and here to say to us that Batman having his private forces in the ground everywhere isn't a good idea. Duke movement, while less able to transform the city in a short time could probably change it for the better in the long run.

Okay, so I though about it and I think that I can now try to explain what Duke position in the Batfamily and why it makes him unique.

Duke is the bridge between the vigilantes of Gotham and its citizens.

If one look at his past, it is all there. He was first introduced by day, trying to solve crosswords to defy the Riddler by day, before a crowd. it was something Batman was loath to do at that time. He had tried to stop Riddler from the shadows but hadn't stepped into the light at that time, and he was forced to do so to confront the master of Zero Year. It was, however, insufficient and he had to finish the Riddler in the darkness of the Museum, because, all in all, the peoples of Gotham hadn't the will to take matters into their own hands. Duke is latter reintroduced during Endgame, where the peoples of Gotham have been turned into Batman's enemies because of the Joker. This new toxin create a strong hatred toward those you love, and the citizens of Gotham being against Batman prove that they care about him, but all in all, they don't act on this love for him, not really.

Then we go to We Are Robin, Robin War and Superheavy. In those three storylines, Duke is trying to find his parents while the majority of the population has grown ever more apathetic in the face of crimes. By joining the Robins, Duke becomes a part of a social movement which intends to change Gotham for the better. The Robins are young people, somewhat disillusioned with the way their town is going and who intends to change this course to steer it toward better days. In the New 52 Gotham, it is a first (and even from the few I truly know of Gotham pre-52, there wasn't that many examples of such a movement. Even in No Man's Land, it's the police forces who are acting on the behalf of Gotham citizens and not really those common citizens). The Robins become public enemies because of the Court of Owls (a shadowy organization) but even then they still brazenly operate into the day and night. And during Superheavy, Mr. Bloom is a twisted version of the Robins : instead of peoples banding together to better their city, Mr. Bloom offered superpowers to wreak havoc and destroy Gotham, pretending that it would allow a more beautiful and peaceful city to take place. But his goal of absolute destruction, which rested on people's desperation, was turned upside down by the hope Batman's return brought. Still, Batman is lacking an associate able to channel the peoples to action effectively.

Enters Duke Thomas. This boy has had his parents infected by the Joker's Virus apparently forever, still he has taken to action in a social movement Batman has nothing to do with at first, a movement which has, in fact, chosen to associate itself with Robin, a character with vibrant and hence visible colours. This is thus a movement which wants to be seen and heard. That's why Duke's costume is yellow and black : this young man is halfway between the world of Batman (hence the black on the costume and the gift of it by Bruce) and the peoples of Gotham (hence the yellow and the fact that it will be children who will name Duke's superhero identity). The goal of Batman here is not to create a new Robin, that is a youth brought fully in the dark side of Gotham. it's to create an hero who can propel peoples into actions by daylight to better the city. Someone who isn't seeding fear or wonder (like Batman and Robin) but constructive hope so that the peoples can get busy and reclaims their lives.

If I'm right, then it opens several storylines unique for Duke. The first is obviously that he'll have to propel peoples into action, which would require the help of the We Are Robin kids, who have a web of relations and skills which can help him achieving this goal. Julie Madison would obviously play a large part in it as well. Once the social movement would have been implemented, Duke would have to deal with those who would oppose it, openly (classical villains) and shadowy (the Court of Owls mainly). But he would also have to deal with those people he would have pushed into action and who takes it too far. Are they people who legitimately wants to do good but simply are too rough and violent at first or people who use the social movement as an excuse to let their worst instincts roam freely ? Duke would also have to deal with the likes of the Victims Syndicate, since he himself is a victim of Batman's war on crime.

Then, there would be his relationship with Gotham-Girl, which could introduce some more personal difficulties to his arcs : is propelling the peoples to action is truly worth it since Gotham now has a truly Superhero ? On the opposite, how would he react to Claire using her powers, which kills her a little bit everytime she does ? Would he try to strengthen the movement so Claire has less reasons to use her powers ? Would he try to convince her to drop those powers altogether ? Would he try to find a cure, something which would allow Gotham-Girl to still have her powers without dying ? The last one could be possible, since he would probably want to save the girl he'll fall in love with instead of losing her like he has lost his parents. There would also be the question of how a normal human feels in a relationship with an extremely powerful "meta" (something which hasn't been explored into the Batman's Universe for years now) with a tinge of tragedy.

Obviously, some could argue that there is no need of Duke in the Batfamily to have those storylines, Tim Drake could do the job. But I disagree. Since Rebirth, we have seen two things when it comes to Tim : he wanted to drop the life of vigilantes to become something else (which would also be a great storyline) but, more importantly, he dreamt of a Bat-organization, wearing the brand of Batman and under the control of the Batfamily. It isn't what I think Duke role will have. Tim envisioned himself as the leader of an organization, something structured strictly, with rules and codes; Duke would (and I fact I think will) be the figurehead of a movement greater than himself, he wouldn't have control over it, at best he would inspire it. Where Tim wanted something to shape into an effective tool, Duke would be the interface between Gotham's day and Gotham's night, so to speak. I also think that there is a reason the Colony was the first enemy of the Batfamily in Detective Comics Rebirth : they are everything which could go wrong with Tim idea and here to say to us that Batman having his private forces in the ground everywhere isn't a good idea. Duke movement, while less able to transform the city in a short time could probably change it for the better in the long run.

That's what I think of Duke and his future, sorry for the long post.

Nice post mate. I think you are on to something here. I think that would be an excellent and unique role for Duke though I also still like as plain old batman's partner.

Obviously, some could argue that there is no need of Duke in the Batfamily to have those storylines, Tim Drake could do the job. But I disagree. Since Rebirth, we have seen two things when it comes to Tim : he wanted to drop the life of vigilantes to become something else (which would also be a great storyline) but, more importantly, he dreamt of a Bat-organization, wearing the brand of Batman and under the control of the Batfamily. It isn't what I think Duke role will have. Tim envisioned himself as the leader of an organization, something structured strictly, with rules and codes; Duke would (and I fact I think will) be the figurehead of a movement greater than himself, he wouldn't have control over it, at best he would inspire it. Where Tim wanted something to shape into an effective tool, Duke would be the interface between Gotham's day and Gotham's night, so to speak. I also think that there is a reason the Colony was the first enemy of the Batfamily in Detective Comics Rebirth : they are everything which could go wrong with Tim idea and here to say to us that Batman having his private forces in the ground everywhere isn't a good idea. Duke movement, while less able to transform the city in a short time could probably change it for the better in the long run.

The problem with Tim is that until Rebirth Tim wasn't even part of the Batman editorial department. He was pushed out of the franchise because it was already too crowded and forced to just be in the Titans which is the reason for the organization stuff which his fans aren't too happy with. With Duke now being more involved he really does take up a space that Tim probably could and it is going to be very difficult I think to use both characters together going forward because they are so similar. Both don't really have really difference character traits, both still have their parents and have a semblance of a "normal life", close to the same age, and both love interests are a blonde with ties to a lower tier villain. They aren't exact copies, but I think both are very similar in terms of being "normal" which I think hurts both going forward.

So I think the real problem is his personality as he doesn't stand out too well. Both Tim and now Duke are the "normal" ones and I think they really should have tried to take more risks with him, but I also understand why they didn't and wanted to play it safe. Dick was the overconfident daredevil circus kid that really enjoyed being Robin and was having a blast with it, Jason was the angry troubled kid from the city that had problem with following orders, and Damian is the arrogant biological son of Bruce that sees himself as above everyone else and has poor social skills. Tim and Duke in comparison are kind of normal and don't stand out as much. If there was just one of them then being the "normal one" I think would let them stand out but both trying to occupy the same space I think will be difficult, if that makes any sense.