This little idea that the right-wing extremists in the House have come up with -- IMPEACHMENT -- is gonna backfire BIG TIME for you. I hope you guys do it -- because I can assure you that the mid-terms will go dramatically better for the Dems if you do. I am not a Democrat -- I am a Liberal from California ( yeah, a liberal -- and all the good that is associated with the concept ).

I believe that the profit motive should not be a part of health care. And, you should too. I mean what if you got hit by a car crossing the street and the guy standing over you told you that you had to pay him to call 911 for you? How would you feel about that? Even if you were willing to pay him -- what if you didn't have the money he was asking for? Think about it.

Well, that is what's happening when we let profit seekers into the health care system -- people who will only save your life if you pay them. And, pharmaceutical companies who want to keep you just sick enough, so you have to keep buying their drugs while they raise the prices to astronomical levels.

The whole health care industry is a huge scam and we are just cows at the slaughterhouse. Wake up.

I think I made it clear, in my posts above, why I think the Tea Party are a bunch of misinformed, misguided lunatics who are hell bent on f*cking up this country even worse than it is already ( agreed it is hard to believe that's even possible ). You people are not reducing government, but actually destroying whatever faith America has left in government post-Watergate, Iran-Contra and the misadventure in Iraq. You make up a bunch of lies and then sell them to your parties faithful sheep who obviously don't bother to read and you seem to be immune to facts, in general. Fox News is not helping you or the country. Get your facts straight first, then, Billy, we can talk.

But, since you asked, here are my problems with the Tea Party summarized:

1. The birth-certificate conspiracy. Reality: Not even official birth certificates from Hawaii, newspaper clippings from 1961, and the testimony of state officials will convince Tea Partiers. Which is why WorldNetDaily’s Joseph Farah lectured the National Tea Party Convention for an hour about the “truth” of the birth-certificate story.

2. Death panels. Reality: PolitiFact named Sarah Palin’s Facebook invention its “Lie of the Year,” and the belief was thoroughly exposed as a falsehood by every news network (even Fox). Yet Palin still insists that the panels exist somewhere in the health-care reform bill that was signed into law, its actual language notwithstanding.

3. Obama is a Muslim/Socialist/Fascist. Glenn Beck’s fantasy of the week -- one week Obama was a Socialist, the next he was a Communist, then a Fascist. Then it was on to Marxism and Maoism -- was avidly adopted by sign-bearing fans at Tea Party gatherings, who sometimes shared Beck’s confusion by just calling Obama All of the Above. Reality: Give us a break. Obama’s self-evident cautious centrism, embodied by his health-care reform package stripped of a public option, as well as his more recent embrace of a limited offshore drilling program, has infuriated liberals in his party -- but it hasn’t stopped Tea Partiers from denouncing the president as a radical anyway.

4. Obama is going to take away our guns. Well, the NRA managed to scare a whole lot of people into buying up every gun and piece of ammunition in sight the first year or so after Obama’s election. And at least five police officers died because the suspects they were arresting feared Obama was going to take away their guns. But Obama not only has adhered to his promise not to address gun-control issues, there hasn’t been even a breath of it from his administration. Which, of course, just makes the paranoids that much more paranoid: It’s proof that he’s really up to something.
CORRECTION: Obama sponsored gun control legislation only after 20 children and 6 adults were killed in Newtown and after it had become clear that these tragic massacres are just getting more common. Of course, taking away anybody's guns is not a part of the proposal -- but you wouldn't know that because you don't read anything or watch anything that would help you understand that.

5. Obama is raising our taxes. Reality: Obama lowered taxes for 95 percent of working Americans in his first year in office. But, you know, he’s a liberal Democrat – and for true-blue right-wing folks, that ALWAYS means a tax hike.

6. Fascism is a left-wing phenomenon. We can thank Jonah Goldberg -- with a big assist from Beck -- for the popularity of this one, even though Goldberg’s thesis has been demolished and angrily dismissed by academic historians. It’s especially come in handy for Tea Partiers with Obama-as-Hitler signs, who are not impressed by those pointy-headed professorial types anyway.

7. Global warming is a hoax. So Sean Hannity assures us, citing the Climategate brouhaha -- which was itself shown largely to be a hoax of its own. Meanwhile, the world’s ocean levels keep rising, and glaciers and the polar ice cap keep receding -- regardless of the endless words thrown up denying that they are.

8. Some 16,000 new IRS agents will enforce the new health care reform act by throwing you in jail. Reality: The IRS is actually only increasing its spending in the coming budget year as it normally would -- but some Republican operatives decided to figure out how many positions its increased budget would buy, and came up with 16,000, a figure that then became gospel on Newt Gingrich’s lips. According to the same mythmakers, this nonexistent new army of health care police was going to start throwing people in jail if they failed to buy health insurance -- though in fact, the only penalties contemplated for such failures are fines and taxes.

9. Two million people were at the 9/12 March on Washington. At the culmination of a month long promotion (highlighted by a national Tea Party Express bus tour) by Beck and Fox News, about 70,000 people gathered on the National Mall on September 12 to protest. Beck cited an erroneous early report that over a million had shown up. Later that grew to be two million, the figure now commonly cited by Tea Party leaders as evidence of their tremendous numerical force.

10. The Tea Parties are a non-partisan, broad grassroots movement. Sure, if by non-partisan you mean rabidly paleo-conservative, to the point of even dismissing Republicans, and by grassroots you mean fake populism organized and whipped up by the most popular cable-news network on television, with a heaping helping of corporate financing. Tea Party folks and their defenders also want to believe that they’re just ordinary Americans who want to be serious about helping their country. But it’s pretty hard to fit that description when you embrace plain old nuttiness.

MSNBC isn't really left-wing, but at least they have better actual information than FOX, or Rush, or Glen Beck, or G.Gordon Liddy, or Hannity, or O'Reilly, or anyone on the right-wing talk noise machine.

Thom Hartmann is great, is historically accurate, and is the smartest guy I've listened to.

The country struggles because we've cut government collection from the rich. The answer is in one of my posts above.

Everything you've heard on the MSM is probably wrong, to one degree or another.

The Rich own all of the media, including MSNBC. Certain things are not allowed, and one of them is talking about tax rates for the richest being much, much higher.

We're in debt because we stopped making the rich pay.

The Tea Party is just a name for the rebranded Republican Party--Bush managed to pretty much trash "Republican." I don't believe they are substantially different, as they don't act differently.

The only way back is to vote to go a little more LEFT in each election. At some point maybe Democrats will be in large enough numbers to go for "campaign finance reform."

Big companies and the rich buy our elections. They get what THEY want from the population. They are not humans, but huge profit driven megaliths, who really minimally consider human wants and needs. With them in power, why would you expect us to be anywhere but in a hole of their making?

i knew i was out of my realm when i posted here Mike, youb are way more informed than me and admittedly i did just regurgitate a lot of garbage ive heard on Fox News and i was nearly a six pack in so i was way more mouthy than i should have been but if big government spending is good why is the country struggling so much right now after record government spending? i do admit that the Tea Party has completely lost relavance because it is precisely just the Republican Party now but it wasnt supposed to be that way, i also agree that the top one percent controls nearly all of the $ but since Obama has been in office that trend has gotten even worse.

In other times of war, the top margin was from 91-94 percent, on the rich. The top tax bracket started at 2 million a year--this was maintained until Kennedy Johnson, when they dropped it to around 74%, which most economists who are serious about cutting the debt, and bringing wealth inequity into check, want to return to.

The rich have never been richer. IF them having money actually created jobs, they'd be dragging homeless guys in off the street, to do work.

I should just point out that 90% of taxes are NOT paid by the top ten percent of the people.

Taxes, I assume to mean all types, sales, gas, utility, property, toll roads, fees of all kinds, fines levied, cigarette, liquor, social security (alone is 15% with medicaid medicare), state, AND federal (what republicans mean when they say "taxes" is this one).

What IS true, however, is that the top 10% do own 90 percent of the wealth and income. It is true that the top one percent have managed to cop 90 percent of the gains in the last few decades, while the rest of us have stagnated in income, and fallen further and further behind. This is mostly due to Republicans conning people into voting for them, largely due to social issues, that really don't influence them at all. I mean, no one is forcing anyone to get an abortion, guns are widely available, and you don't have to shack up with a same gender person. It's all up to you. So many are voting against themselves, for things that influence OTHERS.

I'm completely serious. This may be a new bit of information for you, but all of news networks, television, movies, radio, and newspapers are owned by very, very rich people. What you see, from the most left on television (MSNBC) through the most rabid right in radio (radio networks are far more idiotically right than FOX, even) represents the ideological range allowed by the rich, for you to see, and be influenced by. There is no law since 1987 to require the media to air all views (Fairness Doctrine), nor is there a law to even require them to be honest.

There are about 6 that own roughly 90 percent. Rupert Murdoch himself owns over 40 percent of the WORLD's media--remember, he owns FOX, all right-wing, all the time. Political radio talk shows are 97% right-wing, completely biased.

Tea Party, is the same as Republican Party--Bush had trashed "republican" so badly, they had to rebrand. There is nothing new in their platform, cut taxes, mostly given to the rich, then in various ways, they levy debt on the lower classes. Unless you earn more than $370,000 a year, you received very little of the tax cut. I think even the second to top rate, that kicks it on dollars earned over around $170,000 a year probably doesn't affect you. If you don't have 5 million a year in wealth as a single man, or double that for a married person, the Inheritance Tax doesn't affect you. I suspect interest income does, which poor and middle class people pay more of.

Rich people and corporations don't give a crap if you hate gay people, or black people, or immigrants (if you do), or love guns and want one in the hands of every literally diagnosed psychopath or criminal, or if they advocate for the freedom of choice. Corporations are legal agreements, so why would they care. All these things, of course, don't really influence you in particular--but they will figure out a way to take money from you, by driving you wages down, or charging you interest, or raising a tax you pay, to finance things once paid for by those top income groups, you probably aren't even close to being in.

Do yourself and us a favor. If you levy for tax cuts, cite for people under $100,000, or for payroll taxes on everyone for the first $20,000 in income, or cuts to sales, or gas, or property taxes for cheaper homes. At least we all get those.

Vague lamentations about "taxes" (non-specific) being too high?--that gets you nothing, they're talking about federal taxes on the rich, but you think it actually involves you, so you vote for it, and you end up getting financially screwed. That is all about the deception--call for cuts in taxes we all pay.

Just a quick description of regressive--most people under $50,000 a year, pay sales taxes on everything they make--here it's ten percent. If you make 50 million a year, and buy 2 million's worth of goods, you only pay sales taxes on that 2 million, a 25th of your income. See how much more that plays in your life, in everybody's lives? And the best thing about it?--if we cut them, it gets spent, they hire more servers, mechanics, and other service sector jobs to handle the increased business, creating jobs. Give it to the rich, and they'll figure out how to invest it in a corporation, that exports its money to some foreign account, pays no taxes, and generates no demand.

One more thing Mike27 who are these millionaires who get off so easily on taxes? Someone mentioned the importance of facts. Here's one. 90% of taxes collected are paid by 10% of the country. How much more can you expect to squeeze out of the top 10%? Democrats always complain that the Republicans give so much to the rich and eventually people start buying it. America now has one of the highest tax rates in the world. Right up there with China. Now I'm gonna end this whole argument right now. The liberal media dogged Bush relentlessly. Counting how many jobs he lost and how much money he spent. The reality is that unemployment never rose above 5% during the Bush years. Now as a fiscal conservative I hated Bush but Bushs spending was minuscule compared to Obamas Administration. Obama has spent more money than every other president combined. Supposedly this was to create jobs but the more he spends the higher unemployment gets. 9% last I checked and I've stopped paying attention to the news a whole lot because it doesn't take a political analyst to realize this is the worst economy in my lifetime. I'm 39 yrs old. And I don't know if you realize it or not but you made fun of a previous post who complained about Obama Phones saying they were a myth created by Fox News but they are very real and I know plenty of people who have Obama phones. Fill out the form and it arrives in 3 days. Create government dependency and stay in power. Why give free phones to people who are not disabled or sick? Take money from people who work to give those who won't a free phone. Really? Give em food. Ok. Give em healthcare. Good. Give em free cell phones. Heck no. Who Dat Y'all! I appreciate everyone's opinion and their right to it. I enjoy political debate and discussion. And honestly I believe the Federal Reserve is the true culprit in keeping wealth from the average American. If you don't understand read the blog on this forum about it.

Ok WHODATINCA, why do you hate the Tea Party so much? It's only common theme is a belief that the government has become too big and too expensive. The Liberal media has demonized the Tea Party calling it's members racists, terrorists and radicals but all the Tea Party has done is to assemble peacefully and try to steer the Republican Party away from the big spending policies of the Bush Administration. Any other allegation made about the Tea Party is Liberal Media propaganda because the Tea Party does not actually exist. It is just a group of people who believe that government spending should be curtailed because at it's current rate our own government will bankrupt our nation. There is no social agreement or any other philosophy that defines the Tea Party. There are pro-lifers, pro-choicers, supporters of gay marriage as well as opponents to it. There are Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Agnostics. I challenge you to attach any other philosophy to the Tea Party other than a belief that our government has become too big. And Mike27 you are quite the conedian. Were you serious when you claimed that MSNBC is a right wing network? I haven't heard anyone try to deny every news network other than Fox is a tool and a voice of the Democratic Party. Conservative Right Wing views are heard exclusively on Fox and on talk radio. C'mon Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC. Next you'll be telling me that she is not a liberal. I mean the only non Republican speaker on Fox, who reports the news fairly without an agenda is Mr Fair and Balanced himself Sean Hannity.........just kidding! For the record I am not a Republican. I support gay marriage. I believe every American citizen should have access to the best healthcare. I believe immigration may be our nations biggest problem. I think marijuana should be legal. Colorado is having tremendous success with the recent legalization of marijuana. And yes I consider myself a Tea Party member and I think taxes are too high and the government is too big.

$24 billion is what Ted Cruz and The Tea Party have cost this country.

This number is according to an estimate from Standard & Poor who said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.

And it'll cost more the more there is bigger government....which is counter to the framers of our country. We have already reached the point of no return. It is merely a matter of time before we go up in flames. Too many moochers getting some from too many elected, and some appointed, looters... and this is across all party lines. Pretty soon our debt payment will easily be the largest budget expenditure... and just you wait until interest rates go up. You ain't seen nothing yet!

They say they believe in the Constitution, but are all good with shutting down the government. Last time I checked the Constitution gave the framework FOR OUR GOVERNMENT *and* MOST ASSUREDLY ASSUMED THAT WE WOULD HAVE ONE.

As I write that I just shake my head in amazement -- especially when I remember that these same Tea Party "Constitutionalists" who say they want to stop incurring more debt -- are the same f*cks who just cost our country $24 billion dollars and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.

Seriously, we need to start calling Republican precincts in red states prior to elections and ask them if they want more of the same. Because, really the repercussions are dire when you take into consideration how apathetic the voting public already is and how completely idiotic we look to our trading partners, and even our enemies, around the world.

Yep, that's more than NASA, and several other large government programs get each year. And they claim to be for cutting government costs.

What a scam--and southerners continue voting for these clowns for ridiculous reasons, while they get elected and then screw them economically.

Almost every southern governor, including mine, turned down the medicaid funds, for the poor, and that would aid hospitals in not getting "stiffed" for the bill for indigent care. This affected about 670,000 in Alabama alone.

Then, insult to injury, Bentley gets a hernia operation on the government's insurance dime, in the last week.

$24 billion is what Ted Cruz and The Tea Party have cost this country.

This number is according to an estimate from Standard & Poor who said the shutdown, which ended with a deal late Wednesday night after 16 days, took $24 billion out of the U.S. economy, and reduced projected fourth-quarter GDP growth from 3 percent to 2.4 percent.

Thank you, Mike27 and I couldn't agree more. It's scary that Mornin' Joe and Rove are now center-right.

Check this out -- when the Dems (who are also just corporate shills -- it's just that on some issues they are slighty less craven than the bat-**** crazy f*cks the Republican Tea party has turned into ) -- so -- when Obama and the Dems said "Hell No" to all their demands about shutting down Obamacare -- GET THIS: David Vitter, (R) Senator from Louisiana actually wanted to pass a law denying health insurance coverage to the President and Vice-President.

Can you believe we are paying these fu*ks?!?!?! Jesus. <head banging continues>

Watch MSNBC--it's still right-wing, but much closer to the center, and relatively honest. There is that Scarborough guy, who was once a radical right-winger, that I hated. It's a sad world, where Scar and Rove are now the voices of reason.

All corporate media is intrinsically right-wing. It's why we never see anything about shutting down the some-odd 800 military bases that cost a fortune to maintain, with their golf courses and officer's clubs. We never hear how it's maintaining the massive DOD and now another DHS budgets. We don't hear how globilization created massive unemployment in this country, and how we lost a tremendous amount of tax income at the same time, because the jobs are no longer here, and thus, no longer pay federal, state, sales, gas, property, utility, social security, and many other little nickle and dime taxes Republicans have tagged everything we pay, to make up for all the tax breaks they've given to millionaires.

"Boner" actually agreed on a news show this week, that he had come to an agreement with the president on the negotiated $986 Billion in spending. He went back on his word, and has been spineless.

Next time you need to pay your credit card bill, call up Chase, or Bank of America, or whatever your company is--tell them "Hey, I'm not going to pay my bill, unless you take that charge off, for the television my wife bought." See what that gets you.

I can tell you--it'll get you a higher rate, a huge late-payment fee of $40, and that is what we're going to get by a minority in Congress trying to take our government hostage.

Oh yea, by the way, 1.5 MILLION more people voted for Democrats in House races in 2012--the only reason Republicans have ANY power is they stole it with gerrymandering of districts, tossing all the democrats into the same one, and distributing republicans where they could win all of the surrounding ones, in several States ALEC controls.

The Republicans COULD have declared that:
1. Until all abortions cease in the US they are going to de-fund the government, or
2. Until the rich pay no taxes at all, or
3. Until all the SEC's policing of Wall Street ceases or
4. Until we crown Donald F**king Trump as King -- no money for running the government.

You see? THE REASON IS 100% IRRELEVANT.

Funding the government IS NOT A MATTER FOR DEBATE. And, my assertion of that fact comes not from the news media -- but from the Constitution that you say you hold so dear, Oak. Our Constitution says that we will have a government. Period, end of the argument.