Voigtlander Bessa Leica Mount CamerasMade in Japan by Cosina in partnership with Voigtlander, the many modern Voigtlander Leica Screw Mount and Leica M mount bodies offer inexpensive and often unique options into entering the world of Leica rangefinder photography.

Trouble is, you can't go a lot faster -- my 90/2 Summicron definitely stretches the Bessa's base-length too far -- and anything less than f/2 (e.g. f/2.5) doesn't really look that much faster from a marketing viewpoint. Actully, even an f/2.5 might be pushing their luck. There's no much sense in selling a Voigtländer lens that won't work well on Voigtländers.

Cheers,

R.

f1:2.5 would be fine, I’d risk an f1:2 in a crisis, as I suspect most people would.

Anyway although I understand how triangulation works and how base-length effects accuracy, I can’t actually see that difference through the VF, you see the same thing regardless of base length

The recent Bessaflex was great and I believe Cosina probably still make (or at least designed - to be made in China or?) the same basic body (eg Nikon FM10) as the Bessa RF chassis - now selling at least in Japan under the Kenko name in Nikon, Pentax K and Contax/Yashica mounts.

It would seem to be the time to make a "multi-mount" digital body to take all those great lenses in "patent expired" mounts - Canon FD, Konica, Minolta MD, Olympus, Contax, 42mm - - not all mounts in one body but --

One production line for basic body with the standard Cosina shutter/mirror box/externals with a good quality but "no frills" digital sensor - no autofocus or live view or high speed or huge memory or big rear screen. Different mounts available and just the basic exposure automation appropriate to mount -- I believe there would be enough of a demand if you added together all the different groups of users/enthusiasts. It could even be a limited time production - as with some other Cosina ventures - an economical way to manufacture a special. I think there are enough baby boomers and others with lens collections and the money to afford a reasonable price.

Of course it would also tie in with the Cosina and Zeiss SL lens lines - increasing their sales.

Cosina did the equivalent for film cameras for many years.

I'd love full frame but I'm realistic - a Sony or Samsung 10-14MP 1.5x factor would be fine (especialy if they brought out a couple of Cosina wides in all mounts to suit). I believe much of the development cost is in good firmware - but I would hope that the sensor maker would sell a package, even if not their very latest version.

Just to show how nice some of the Kenko (Cosina?) films types can look - have any of you Nikon enthusiasts seen the Mapcamera (Japanese shop) limited edition Ai version with speeds to 1/4000, metal top plate, no name markings, price under 30,000 yen. Much more classy than the FM10.

If I understand things correctly, the problem is that when the camera tells you things are in focus, based on the alignment of images in the viewfinder, it may actually be off. And that relates to the base length. When the images line up in an M2, it may be off by say X millimeters, but with an R2A it may be off by Y centimeters, where Y > X.

If I understand things correctly, the problem is that when the camera tells you things are in focus, based on the alignment of images in the viewfinder, it may actually be off. And that relates to the base length. .

That's exactly it. From experience, trying the 90/2 on the R-series, the focus is off as often as not -- at wide apertures, and under about 4-5 m. Personally I can't see the point of an f/2 lens where you have to hope it's in focus, possibly being tempted to risk (and lose) a shot because you're using a lens that is faster than your camera can reliably focus.

Of course it's a philosophical qiestion as well as technical, but Sparrow and I have different views on the former.

If I understand things correctly, the problem is that when the camera tells you things are in focus, based on the alignment of images in the viewfinder, it may actually be off. And that relates to the base length. When the images line up in an M2, it may be off by say X millimeters, but with an R2A it may be off by Y centimeters, where Y > X.

If the base length is A B and the point of focus is C a triangle ABC is formed, in an M2 the angle at B formed by the lines AB and BC is greater than the same angle on an R2 so mathematically it would need to be calculated to a lesser degree to achieve the same accuracy, but I can’t see that angle through the VF they both look the same to me; it only has an impact on the tolerance the manufacturer has to achieve.

I also think a think MF folder or MF Rangefinder with a 3 lens kit would be cool. The folder should have a coupled rangefinder, but no meter so it wouln't need batteries. The MF rangefinder could have all the goodies, a meter and AE. I would go for a 6x9 with format masks and a 35mm panorama adapter, all of the format brightlines would be visible in the viewfinder via a selector.

1/ A Bessa CLE with metered manual and still maintaining the 28/40/90 frameline format.

2/ An M mount version of the 40mm f2 Ultron ASPH

3/ An M Mount 18mm f4 rather than the LTM mount prototype once considered but still compact taking 39mm filters

4/ New metal 21mm finder. Or a another mini finder with 21/25 framelines.

5/ A LTM or M Mount 50mm f3.5 Macro lens like the first Micro Nikkor in S mount using the optical formula from the legendary Heliar 50mm f3.5 (And yes before someone jumps on me that macro lenses aren't suitable with rangefinders, this may be true but its my Rangefinder I usually have with me and something closer focusing like the Leica Macro Elmar would be handy especially if you could use it as your standard lens as well. Cosina has come out with many ingenious solutions like the 21mm finder in the R4, I think if they put their minds too it they could find a great rangefinder macro or close focus solution as well.)

Hopefully they don't bring anything I want
My wallet and visacard would be happy so, that said I would like a singlecoated Tessar or a Biotar lens in M mount. That would hopefully stop me from buying a Contax I in the future. A bit more seriously, a 50mm 1,2 would be really nice.

vha

__________________
Lost my time to landrover, but then I bougth a Leica again.
MM/50mm elmar M, 35mm Nokton 1.2
and suddenly a few ZM lenses too

... it only has an impact on the tolerance the manufacturer has to achieve.

Dear Stewart,

Exactly.

I was doing a little consultancy work for another manufacturer a while back -- medium format, not 35mm -- and as he pointed out, significantly tightening the tolerances can put prices up so far that no-one would buy the camera. Anyone can do it; the question is what it costs.

Much easier to start out with a much longer base length that allows lower tolerances at an affordable price. Even Leica had to use a rangefinder magnifier to make a 135/2.8 tolerable.

Why a DSLR for old MF lenses? You can mount almost anything on a Canon 5D (except for Canon FD and Minolta I think). There's no way Cosina will be able to compete with Canon in this field. Cosina's strengths are finding gaps in the market.

Speaking of evil SLRs, I'd love to see some more Voigtlander lenses in EF mount with electronically controlled aperture (but metal barrels and manual focusing). There are a lot of people who don't mind focusing themselves, but who hate dealing with stop-down metering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avotius

... all lenses produced should focus to .7 meter regardless as .9 is often a real barrier and the reason I didnt get the 50 nokton, 35 ultron, 50 sonnar, etc etc etc

maybe something for cosina and zeiss to talk about, a wide angle version of the Zeiss Ikon with a good rangefinder base length and in the same body so you could focus 50mm lenses with accurate results but still use something up to a 21 or maybe even the 18, is that rf coupled? I would buy one of those for an 18mm lens, but then again that r4a has sounded pretty interesting to me as well.

I would really love to see Cv make an Updated Leica CL, That small, with the great CV LED meter read out on the back of the top plate. Either LTM or M and a range of new style Collapsible lens. in maybe 21,35,50mm And of course very affordable.holgaguy

I carry my OM1 pretty consistently for one main reason...close ups...at least close enough to get my own hands into the picture (about 1 ft).

So, I'd like a screw mount f2 collapsible heliar WITH a dedicated SOOKY/NOOKY-type close up attachment. This attachment will have MOVEABLE WINDOWS for use on any LTM/M camera.

My OM1 would stay home.

__________________
-Stevemy gallerymy flickr
Olympus XA, Fed 3B, Zorki 4K, Leica IIIf rdst, Nikon S, Sony RX100, OM1, Rebel T3 (with OM glass)
"The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness."
-P. G. Wodehouse

Who said that Cosina should own Leica? Maybe that is what Mr. K. is dreaming about... and I think the overwhelming majority here would agree that a Cosina owned Leica would be the best thing that ever happened to them.

I would too like to see Tri-Skopar, albeit a wide angle version of it. 25-28-35/3.5 or so would be great, so that one (e.g. me ) could carry a fast 50 and equivalent of few slower wides in one package.

having bought an olympus trip 35 recently, i realize the usefulness of a compact fixed lens camera. but i miss the manual selection of shutter speed and aperture, so my "ideal compact camera" is a mix of features of the oly and the rollei 35 series.

having bought an olympus trip 35 recently, i realize the usefulness of a compact fixed lens camera. but i miss the manual selection of shutter speed and aperture, so my "ideal compact camera" is a mix of features of the oly and the rollei 35 series.

A faster 21 mm or 18mm in screw mount (there are lots of Bessa R & L still around) would be great.
A dream camera, for me, would be a digital remake of the beautiful Vitessa with a fast 35or 40mm fixed lens ...

__________________
Nico

I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member
Julius Henry Marx

Definitely a faster 21. I sold my 21/4 because it wasn't great for me in low light: other than that I was fantastically happy with it. 21/2.8 would be fine, 21/2, well, we can dream.

I already have the Zeiss 25. I'm thinking maybe there's some mileage in having a faster 21 and a faster 25 for those people who don't want to buy both Zeiss (or Leica) wides.

Longer lenses, particularly around 50mm and 75mm, that focus to 0.7m rather than 0.9m or 1m. It's been a dealbreaker to me as it has been for posters above.

As for 50/1.2, yes, I think this could make a lot for Voigtlander. Our alternatives are the Hexanon, the Noctilux and something like the Zunow, any one of which is worth more than most people's entire lens collections. Well, maybe not on this board...

I think there's also some more mileage in screw-in vented lens hoods that curve in nicely. After all, a lot of people seem to be ebaying for them. A 40.5 might get sales from people buying Jupiters.

Finally, if Mr K is listening, thank you so much. You're the reason I could afford to get into rangefinders in the first place, and though I've fallen for the 35mm Nokton, I still think the Ultron was much better than the 35/1.4 Nikkor - a lens I loved - that it replaced. The whole Voigtlander achievement's seriously impressive, and now the R4 which solves a problem RF shooters have had for decades. And given the Nokton, perhaps something like a 50/1.2, 75/1.2 or 18/2.5 makes sense as a flagship that even the Leica diehards have to have.

Another thought, less grandiose than my last: Change the trigger winder and the side-grip to add slots compatible with the Arca-Swiss quick-release system... so no added quick-release plate is necessary with either. Nicely rounded like the Really Right Stuff quick-release plates, so it all remains friendly to the hand.

One blue-sky wish: while Konica was still kicking, I made known to them my wish for a 75-135 f/3.5 "dualie" as a companion to their 21-35 M-Hex. Never happened, obviously. I still like the idea, and can't help but think it would require less in the way of engineering chops to pull off than the 21-35 did.

- Barrett

__________________
"Print 'em both, kid." - Frank "Cancie" Cancellare, to a UPI courier, after tossing a 20-exposure roll of film to him.

A new and improved version of the Bessa R would be nice. All metal construction with a 1:1 viewfinder would be a start. Plus a longer range finder baseline, like contax II style. Meterless with a mechanical shutter would also be good.

"Some people are 'the glass is half full' types. Some people are 'the glass is half empty' types. I'm a 'the glass is full of radioactive waste and I just drank half of it' type. And I'm still thirsty." -- Bill Mattocks

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.