The exact translation is: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, we compete against Newey"Otherwise people will post silly things about him figting alone, his ego issues, cracking under pressure, etc, etc...;)

FA is fighting against Seb, Pat Fry et al. are fighting against Newey. FA is downplaying not just Seb but Ferrari engineers with those less than stellar comments. No need to - he should just shut up and drive.

Yeah Red Bull are cheats and F1 is a corrupt sport. Unlike with Benetton in 1994 they didn't clamp down on the flexi wings and monster diffusers back in 2010 in spite of them being against the rules so Alonso and Ferrari are fighting a team that goes way over the boundaries of the regulations. Todt becoming FIA president was the worst thing that could happen, because he's bound to want Ferrari to fail to make himself look like the god of team bosses (it's called egoism). Todt is a huge egomaniac and between 1993-2007 Ferrari were benefitting from that. That's why Red Bull gets away with flexi wings and everything, because Todt has a problem with Dennis, Alonso and Di Montezemolo and would prefer no success for either of them.

See how the DDRS was only allowed to be on this season because his friends Brawn and Schumacher benefitted from them? Remember how RBR weren't thrown out of the German Grand Prix in spite of an illegal mapping being discovered AFTER qualifying?

(Call me a conspiracy theorist but I've had it with the bowing down to Newey).

Where Ferrari failed was in not making sure Todt stayed within the company, preferrably Brawn too. LdM didn't reward loyalty enough and that bites Fernando in the donkey now as RBR/Merc have their own set of rules. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Vatanen was a Ferrari puppet back in 2009 and that's why Todt is acting like he does. So I wouldn't think Ferrari are guardian angels either. They will probably be lobbying for an opponent to Todt in the next election too.

Yes rabid Alonso fan, everyone is out to get you and Alonso, he's only losing because everyone else in the paddock is cheating and is out to get him/you.

Seriously? Grow up. Alonso made some mistakes this season (notably the Raikkonen incident) and the F2012 just isn't fast enough. RBR has been more consistent. Learn the facts.

FA is fighting against Seb, Pat Fry et al. are fighting against Newey. FA is downplaying not just Seb but Ferrari engineers with those less than stellar comments. No need to - he should just shut up and drive.

The exact translation is: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, we compete against Newey"Otherwise people will post silly things about him figting alone, his ego issues, cracking under pressure, etc, etc...;)

FA is fighting against Seb, Pat Fry et al. are fighting against Newey. FA is downplaying not just Seb but Ferrari engineers with those less than stellar comments. No need to - he should just shut up and drive.

Nah, Alonso is spot on. In the first races of the season, for example, there were no new pieces on the cars, no major upgrades until the european races. Now they are fighting to catch Redbull, who have a faster car due to the good development. So yes, right now they are not fighting Vettel and Webber on the track because they fly away, build a gap, and there is no race. That is my view on his words.

Of course if anyone wants to play silly and take his words on a literal context, then yes, Alonso is not racing or fighting Adrian Newey literally, unless they race each other to see who runs faster to get to the bar

The exact translation is: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, we compete against Newey"

And how is that somehow a reasonable comment? FA competes against SV as the engineers fight against each other. i seriously cannot find anything good in FA´s comments no matter how thet are translated or not. Unnecessary at best, denigrating at worst. i have never ever read anywhere Seb downplaying FA in any way form or fashion.

The exact translation is: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, we compete against Newey"

And how is that somehow a reasonable comment? FA competes against SV as the engineers fight against each other. i seriously cannot find anything good in FA´s comments no matter how thet are translated or not. Unnecessary at best, denigrating at worst. i have never ever read anywhere Seb downplaying FA in any way form or fashion.

You can understand his frustration. Yet another year where he has given 110% and his team has dropped the ball and let him down at the end of the year with developments. Another potential title is slipping out of his fingers and he can give any more than he has. If Ferrari were bringing upgrades that worked and were allowing Alonso to challenge for poles and wins, I doubt he would have mentioned Newey.

The exact translation is: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, we compete against Newey"

And how is that somehow a reasonable comment?

Because F1 is a team sport, and the myopic tendency of some people to focus solely on the drivers is pointless. Red Bull has made some pretty big steps in their development - to their credit - and its hurting Ferrari and McLaren (look at how Webber has suddenly jumped to the front row again these past few races). Newey is the technical director of Red Bull and a bit of an F1 celebrity. It's not uncommon to refer to places or organisations by their figurehead. That's all.

Yet another year where he has given 110% and his team has dropped the ball and let him down at the end of the year with developments. Another potential title is slipping out of his fingers and he can give any more than he has.

Alonso was 1 second ahead off Massa earlier during season and now he is ahead by 1 tenth. So if he gave 110% now he is giving 90%.

Denigrating is not the right word. He´s been dismissing Vettel´s achievements and performances every chance he got for 3 years now, it´s a trend. No one would have cared about today without these precedents, but he´s been talking this "Seb is not in our league"/"let´s see what he does without the fastest car"/"it´s all down to Newey" crap. And it might be physchological war or his honest opinion (I doubt), but I find it disgusting frankly, and I´m fed up with this. Have some class and don´t dismiss the champion. In the end who wins always deserves it, and you must give credit where it´s due.

Whereelse could he go? Stay at McLaren? No. Stay at Renault? No. Go to Red Bull which was just emerging to a winning team? No guarantee for success. Ferrari is Real Madrid of Formula 1. Everybody wants to drive for them.

Denigrating is not the right word. He´s been dismissing Vettel´s achievements and performances every chance he got for 3 years now, it´s a trend. No one would have cared about today without these precedents, but he´s been talking this "Seb is not in our league"/"let´s see what he does without the fastest car"/"it´s all down to Newey" crap. And it might be physchological war or his honest opinion (I doubt), but I find it disgusting frankly, and I´m fed up with this. Have some class and don´t dismiss the champion. In the end who wins always deserves it, and you must give credit where it´s due.

I agree completely, it's one of the reasons I don't like Fernando Alonso or most of his fans, as they seem to take this attitude. It was the same non-stop criticism rubbish when Hamilton was beating him in 2007, arguments that McLaren must be giving Hamilton a better car etc. It's just silly. When Vettel loses he says he must try harder, push push push etc. When Alonso loses he blames everyone else and criticises both his team and other drivers. Personally, I don't get why Alonso doesn't move to Red Bull in 2014, instead of the other way around. Since it's got such an amazing designer and all, and Webber's contract is up... Oh wait, Alonso's ego can't stand giving another driver equal treatment in the same car.

Or he claims the FIA called a safety car period not to clear debris but “to break our neck”. (Valencia)See, you can play this game with every driver if you want to. Once again, stop mistaking your own impression for actual 100% true reality.

It will be interesting to see indeed, and also how his mood will be. So far Vettel has been sulking even after what were minor obstacles compared to the crap Alonso has encountered these past years.

Sure, but Alonso chose for Ferrari himself didn't he? Could have taken his Santander money anywhere he wanted to, but it hàd to be Ferrari.Well be happy you're in a Ferrari then and stop moaning about other car's superior performance levels please.

I agree completely, it's one of the reasons I don't like Fernando Alonso or most of his fans, as they seem to take this attitude. It was the same non-stop criticism rubbish when Hamilton was beating him in 2007, arguments that McLaren must be giving Hamilton a better car etc. It's just silly. When Vettel loses he says he must try harder, push push push etc. When Alonso loses he blames everyone else and criticises both his team and other drivers. Personally, I don't get why Alonso doesn't move to Red Bull in 2014, instead of the other way around. Since it's got such an amazing designer and all, and Webber's contract is up... Oh wait, Alonso's ego can't stand giving another driver equal treatment in the same car.

Shame you don't like us, I like you, and the fact that supporting your driver is not enough for you since you came here to talk about your personal dislikes. Very interesting, tell us more I don't like when Vettel loses or crahes and he takes the front wing out of his team mate and put it on his car. See? These are silly and non productive comments to the forum. I respect Vettel and Redbull very much, but I don´t understand the need of some fans to put down Alonso at every opportunity, twisting words all the time. Thank god your boy is on top and with the fastest car, I can not imagine what would happen if...

Shame you don't like us, I like you, and the fact that supporting your driver is not enough for you since you came here to talk about your personal dislikes. Very interesting, tell us more I don't like when Vettel loses or crahes and he takes the front wing out of his team mate and put it on his car. See? These are silly and non productive comments to the forum. I respect Vettel and Redbull very much, but I don´t understand the need of some fans to put down Alonso at every opportunity, twisting words all the time. Thank god your boy is on top and with the fastest car, I can not imagine what would happen if...

You mean you're saying a decision the team made... is the driver's fault? xD

So basically it's Alonso's fault the F2012 is slow. Thanks for making it okay to say silly points such as that

Edit: And look closely. The Autosport headline is "Alonso '100 per cent' sure he will be champion in 2012". The actual quote is "I remain 100 per cent confident that we will fight for this championship, and we will win it." Very much a different thing and what this is is obvious to anyone who has ever been in a competitive situation he wanted to win, even more so when that was in a team.

So you mean the F2012 being slow is a team decision like the front wing decision at RB? wow you are clever I just realise you are 12 posts old. My mistake. Have a nice day and enjoy the race tomorrow

That's cool, if you can't build a decent argument to my points I'm fine with it. Just adds to the tally of pointless tribal Alonso fans. I will enjoy the race, as will I enjoy Vettel being triple world champion

That's cool, if you can't build a decent argument to my points I'm fine with it. Just adds to the tally of pointless tribal Alonso fans. I will enjoy the race, as will I enjoy Vettel being triple world champion

If you find us so horrible I don't know why you want to spend so much time here. As for your arguments, it's not as if they are new, it just looks like this to you. So until you say something interesting that wasn't said, discussed, accepted and/or debunked years ago, you need to live with people not bothering much to respond to old stories

That's cool, if you can't build a decent argument to my points I'm fine with it. Just adds to the tally of pointless tribal Alonso fans. I will enjoy the race, as will I enjoy Vettel being triple world champion

Your only points so far are insulting Alonso and your dislike for him and his fans. How can I have a decent argument? Add to that that you have 12 posts and half of those are just trolling comments. I won't do the same mistake as you I don't think all Vettel fans are like you. I am going to report you if you keep that attitude, it is something we Alonso fans tend to do cause we are horrible people

Yes rabid Alonso fan, everyone is out to get you and Alonso, he's only losing because everyone else in the paddock is cheating and is out to get him/you.

Seriously? Grow up. Alonso made some mistakes this season (notably the Raikkonen incident) and the F2012 just isn't fast enough. RBR has been more consistent. Learn the facts.

RBR have been caught having an illegal car twice mid-weekend this season and being allowed to continue as nothing has happened. No forced modification and starting from pitlane or being DSQ'd.

When BAR were caught with an illegal car in 2005 they were banned two races. Vettel and RBR should have been forced to sit out Monaco, Canada, Valencia, Germany, Hungary and Belgium since that is exactly the penalty BAR got for deliberately circumventing the rules. Then Alonso would've been champion and a fair one at that. I will never accept Vettel as this year's champion unless he wins by more than what he gained in those races where according to prejudice he shouldn't have taken part. It's a vacant year in my book should that happen.

Also I will support whoever drives the red car in effect I am not an Alonso fanboy. I very much respect him as a driver but with all due respect he is no Schumacher. I'd support Vettel if he came too. It's not Vettel cheating, it is Newey. I'm not completely sure Alonso is the better driver, but RBR have gotten away with deliberate cheating this year and it's time to point that out now, sorry.

The results in the races RBR should've been banned from (BAR 2005 and Schumacher 94 prejudice of two races + weekend when being caught cheating):

Monaco

Alonso + 3 Vettel -12

Canada

Alonso + 2 Vettel - 12

Europe

no difference

Germany

Vettel - 10

Hungary

Alonso + 2 Vettel -12

Belgium

Vettel - 18

Alonso 7 points net

Vettel - 64 points net

That means had prejudices to deliberate rule-contravening been applied Alonso would've been 63 points clear of Vettel by now. So there you have it, if Vettel wins by 63 points or more from tomorrow on I will say he and RBR are not cheats but champs... Make out those were the only times they were caught, but they've had flex issues as well this year too.

The results in the races RBR should've been banned from (BAR 2005 and Schumacher 94 prejudice of two races + weekend when being caught cheating):

Monaco

Alonso + 3 Vettel -12

Canada

Alonso + 2 Vettel - 12

Europe

no difference

Germany

Vettel - 10

Hungary

Alonso + 2 Vettel -12

Belgium

Vettel - 18

Alonso 7 points net

Vettel - 64 points net

That means had prejudices to deliberate rule-contravening been applied Alonso would've been 63 points clear of Vettel by now. So there you have it, if Vettel wins by 63 points or more from tomorrow on I will say he and RBR are not cheats but champs... Make out those were the only times they were caught, but they've had flex issues as well this year too.

RBR have been caught having an illegal car twice mid-weekend this season and being allowed to continue as nothing has happened. No forced modification and starting from pitlane or being DSQ'd.

When BAR were caught with an illegal car in 2005 they were banned two races. Vettel and RBR should have been forced to sit out Monaco, Canada, Valencia, Germany, Hungary and Belgium since that is exactly the penalty BAR got for deliberately circumventing the rules. Then Alonso would've been champion and a fair one at that. I will never accept Vettel as this year's champion unless he wins by more than what he gained in those races where according to prejudice he shouldn't have taken part. It's a vacant year in my book should that happen.

Also I will support whoever drives the red car in effect I am not an Alonso fanboy. I very much respect him as a driver but with all due respect he is no Schumacher. I'd support Vettel if he came too. It's not Vettel cheating, it is Newey. I'm not completely sure Alonso is the better driver, but RBR have gotten away with deliberate cheating this year and it's time to point that out now, sorry.

What about Ferrari when they were runnning that illegal part they use in the wet races?

Hamilton took a bold decision to leave the "safety" of McLaren and sign to Mercedes. Now Alonso should make himself and history a favour to try and do everything to have Vettel alongside him at Ferrari. And then we will see... It's so obvious that at the final part of the championship RBR is a rocketship and the others are fighting with catapults.

Well its simple isnt it.If they were not punished , they did nothing wrong.

Outside of that its just speculation as to what they were doing or any other team is doing.Now , ferrari broke the rules in Germany 2010 in front of everyone and were given monetory fine only.

Thank god Vettel saved us from the spectacle of Alonso winning by those illegal 7 points.

Todt won't forget his falling outs with Di Montezemolo and Alonso so loves watching them lose. There you have it. Had Todt been allowed to stay along at Ferrari as company president we'd probably seen Räikkönen/Vettel as drivers by now. Certainly not Alonso.

Except Ferrari just said that Fernando was faster than him, in no sense they forced him to do it or threatened to fire him. Felipe was in control of the car and decided to do it for the team.

Your only points so far are insulting Alonso and your dislike for him and his fans. How can I have a decent argument? Add to that that you have 12 posts and half of those are just trolling comments. I won't do the same mistake as you I don't think all Vettel fans are like you. I am going to report you if you keep that attitude, it is something we Alonso fans tend to do cause we are horrible people

My "only" points are my points nonetheless, and you still have yet to come up with an alternative as to why Alonso feels the need to criticise Vettel and his own team when he loses. They're not trolling comments at all, they're my opinion. Go ahead and report me, I've done nothing wrong, feel free to waste your time.