As for other lines, I think some people draw the line at meat but continue to eat fish and poultry for health reasons. Others, because their arbitrary line of morality extends only to land animals. For some, it's about the environment the animal lived in: a fish caught from the ocean was not exploited all its life for food. The truth is, no matter where we draw our personal ethical lines it is pretty much arbitrary in the end. Vegans eat mushrooms even though they are far more closely related to animals than to plants, for example. Morals are a choice, and some people just choose differently along the scale. I think every point on the meat-eater to fish-eater to veggie to vegan scale has good moral arguments for it, and good arguments why the line should be somewhere else, so I figure people should be allowed to settle wherever they feel most comfortable and justify their position as they will.

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Also, it's possible to be a vegetarian for health, economic or environmental reasons rather than moral ones. I've followed a mostly vegetarian diet at times (not currently), with no moral qualms whatsoever about eating one species over another

Sort of topical after mentioned quinoa earlier. It's a riposte to a commentary piece about Western demand for q and impact on Bolivian economy. Reactions are interesting. Of course, it's from the Guardian, newspaper of veggie liberals everywhere

^Ah, I heard about that. It is an interesting case! Just goes to show, you should never draw an uncompromising ethical line anywhere, because chances are it's fucking things up in ways you never imagined! Just better to accept that we are all monsters!

As for other lines, I think some people draw the line at meat but continue to eat fish and poultry for health reasons. Others, because their arbitrary line of morality extends only to land animals. For some, it's about the environment the animal lived in: a fish caught from the ocean was not exploited all its life for food. The truth is, no matter where we draw our personal ethical lines it is pretty much arbitrary in the end. Vegans eat mushrooms even though they are far more closely related to animals than to plants, for example. Morals are a choice, and some people just choose differently along the scale. I think every point on the meat-eater to fish-eater to veggie to vegan scale has good moral arguments for it, and good arguments why the line should be somewhere else, so I figure people should be allowed to settle wherever they feel most comfortable and justify their position as they will.

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Also, it's possible to be a vegetarian for health, economic or environmental reasons rather than moral ones. I've followed a mostly vegetarian diet at times (not currently), with no moral qualms whatsoever about eating one species over another

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Oh yes, I agree completely. As I said earlier, my default position is vegetarian, though I personally do not have an ethical problem eating meat.

My husband has been a pesco-vegetarian (he eats fish and dairy, but no other meat) for almost 30 years. I was much the same for several years, but after the birth of my third child I had some health issues that left me needing to start eating meat again from time to time (giving birth 3 times within 3 1/2 years will do that to you). I don't cook with meat often for cost reasons, and stick mostly to vegetarian pastas and bakes. My children like different kinds of meat, though they like most of my veggie dishes as well.

tsq, I must try your chilli recipe, though with maybe a quarter of the spices. Yeah, I'm a complete and utter heat wimp. One ingredient I always add to my chilli is a small spoonful of cocoa powder. It sounds odd if you've never come across it, but a friend who's an incredible cook (she wrote a cookbook for pressure cookers) told me about this. The chilli doesn't taste remotely chocolatey, of course, but the cocoa powder adds a lovely depth to the flavour.

I'm a huge fan of my slow cooker. Chillies, stews and sauces taste better when they've been slow-cooked for hours on a low temperature than when they've been whipped up on the hob/stove top. My most-often cooked slow cooker dish is a tomato-based veggie pasta sauce.

I came across this fun article on the BBC website today: Twenty tales of vegetarian woe. Even though my husband eats fish he sometimes has trouble finding something to eat in pubs and restaurants.

tsq, I must try your chilli recipe, though with maybe a quarter of the spices. Yeah, I'm a complete and utter heat wimp. One ingredient I always add to my chilli is a small spoonful of cocoa powder. It sounds odd if you've never come across it, but a friend who's an incredible cook (she wrote a cookbook for pressure cookers) told me about this. The chilli doesn't taste remotely chocolatey, of course, but the cocoa powder adds a lovely depth to the flavour.

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If you describe yourself that way, do so. I like some spicyness and It was a bit much for me! The cocoa sounds like an awesome addition.

Making another soup tonight, an Iranian Eshkaneh soup. Lots of onions and stuff, will report back later so ya'll know if it was any good.

A old high school friend of mine whose parents immigrated to Canada from India loves to remind me of the times I stayed over for meals at her parents' house. Her mother was an amazing cook, and she always removed my serving from the pot before she put the real spices in, lest this pasty white girl burst into flames. I can handle spicier food now than I could as a teenager, but I still have to be careful. By the way, British-Indian fusion food is all kinds of awesome, and there are loads of options for vegetarians.

I went vegan here just within the last year. It was sort of a resolution of mine. It was hard, though because I'm married to a carnivore who will never give up meat. I didn't give it up for the health benefits, but for the well-being of the poor animals that are brutalized for our use. It's disgusting and heartbreaking to know that this goes on. Anyway, I'm rambling, forgive me.

I hope my questions are not annoying or offensive. They are not meant to be. This is addressed to TheStrangeQuark and, well, any others:

I gather there are different levels of veggie-ism. Vegans seem to be one extreme, but many levels seem to exist.

Why is it OK to eat fish, but not other meat... or chicken, but not beef? This is something I really don't understand. [Remember, I'm not trying to be offensive, but to learn.]

Where I live, we don't even have specialty stores. The lychee salad looks great, but I don't have access to many of the ingredients I've seen on here. It's another reason I'm just trying to eat healthier in general. It was different when we lived at the beach, it was a larger city with more variety.

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Not offended at all.

My sister is a vegan. Her philosophy is that she is in the position to live without using animals at all, and that is what she should do. Her's is a position of ethics, recognizing that we, as humans, are animals. She believes, therefore, that animals deserve the same rights not to be abused, exploited, or murdered as people do. She therefore does what she can to be completely independent of all animal products, from meat, fish, dairy, and eggs, to honey, leather, and wool. While I do agree with some of her philosophy, I don't share it all, but I understand why she feels the way she does.

As for other lines, I think some people draw the line at meat but continue to eat fish and poultry for health reasons. Others, because their arbitrary line of morality extends only to land animals. For some, it's about the environment the animal lived in: a fish caught from the ocean was not exploited all its life for food. The truth is, no matter where we draw our personal ethical lines it is pretty much arbitrary in the end. Vegans eat mushrooms even though they are far more closely related to animals than to plants, for example. Morals are a choice, and some people just choose differently along the scale. I think every point on the meat-eater to fish-eater to veggie to vegan scale has good moral arguments for it, and good arguments why the line should be somewhere else, so I figure people should be allowed to settle wherever they feel most comfortable and justify their position as they will.

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Another old argument about consuming beef is the resources required to produce it. Producing one pound of beef requires more feed and water than one pound of pork, which requires more resources than producing one pound of chicken, etc. Small planet, etc.

^Oh, I know that I didn't even begin to broach the many factors one might consider when choosing a veggie or vegan diet, ethical, practical, economic, health, environment, etc. The point is that there are a ton of things to consider, and that different people consider different reasons important.

^Oh, I know that I didn't even begin to broach the many factors one might consider when choosing a veggie or vegan diet, ethical, practical, economic, health, environment, etc. The point is that there are a ton of things to consider, and that different people consider different reasons important.

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No deficiencies in your exposition! I actually began to entertain veg-related thoughts due to an environmentalist friend; that was my "gateway" to the subject!

I'm fine with talking about both, though I get annoyed if people start making accusations and such. You know, like "meat is murder and you're a cold blooded killer!" or "you're going to die of protein starvation! You're afraid of a little blood!" and such.