U.S. Supreme Court Grants Emergency Injunction to Block Girl From Using Boys’ Restroom

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Supreme Court has granted a Virginia school district’s request for an emergency injunction to temporarily halt a lower court ruling that would have required officials to allow a female student who identifies as male to use the boys’ restroom.

The court voted 5-3 to grant the injunction while the matter is being considered for an appeal, with Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan siding with the student.

As previously reported, Gavin Grimm, now 17, told reporters in December 2014 that she began using the boys’ restroom after obtaining permission from the school principal when she expressed disapproval over being forced to use the nurse restroom.

“I’m not a girl. I’m not using the girl’s restroom,” Grimm stated. “So I said, ‘Hey, where can I use the restroom?’ … And so they said, ‘Use the nurse’s room,’ and at the time I was fine with that, because I was still afraid—I didn’t know how my peers would react. So, I didn’t want to push the envelope any further than I had to all at once.”

But she said that the option soon became a problem.

“The nurse’s office is at least a three minute walk from the class I have closest to it. It took a substantial amount of time out of my class time, and it was embarrassing,” Grimm said. “When you’re gone for 15 minutes at a time to use the bathroom, what are high schoolers gonna think? It’s humiliating and it’s alienating.”

The student therefore asked the principal about the matter, who suggested that Grimm go ahead and use the men’s restroom since she identifies as a boy. But some of the parents of the male students soon learned about the allowance, and the issue turned up before the school board.

Due to the concerns of parents, the board voted to approve a policy requiring students to utilize the restroom that correlates with their biological gender, or to use a private bathroom.

But in response, Grimm sued the Gloucester County School Board with the aid of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) in an effort to overturn the policy.

“By excluding Gavin—a transgender boy—from the boys restrooms because the school board does not deem him to be ‘biologically’ male, the school board, under color of state law, has treated and continues to treat Gavin differently from similarly situated students based on his gender,” the suit asserted.

Last September, District Court Judge Robert Doumar, appointed to the bench by then-President Ronald Reagan, ruled against Grimm, disagreeing with the ACLU that the board had violated Title IX with its restroom policy.

“Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex and not on the basis of other concepts such as gender, gender identity, or sexual orientation,” Doumar wrote.

The ACLU appealed the decision to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled 2-1 in favor of Grimm in April by pointing to the Obama administration’s recent interpretations of the federal statute.

It then sent the case back to Doumar, who was instructed to rule in light of how the U.S. Department of Education views the federal statute. Doumar consequently ordered the board to allow Grimm to use the boys’ restroom.

The the Gloucester County School Board then appealed the order to the U.S. Supreme Court, asserting that it will cause “irreparable harm to the board, to the school system and to the legitimate privacy expectations of the district’s schoolchildren and parents alike.”

On Wednesday, the court granted the emergency injunction, blocking Grimm from using the boys’ restroom—at least for now as it decides whether or not to accept the board’s appeal.

The ACLU says that it is disappointed with the decision.

“We are disappointed that the court has issued a stay and that Gavin will have to begin another school year isolated from his peers and stigmatized by the Gloucester County School Board just because he’s a boy who is transgender,” attorney Joshua Black told reporters. “We remain hopeful that Gavin will ultimately prevail.”

But the board says that it is pleased that the injunction had been granted, remarking, “The board continues to believe that its resolution of this complex matter fully considered the interests of all students and parents in the Gloucester County school system.”

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Amos Moses

i guess the pool in the picture is an option …………

axelbeingcivil

This website enjoys misgendering trans people. I mean, even if you disagree with their choice, couldn’t you just use gender neutral terms or qualify their sex? There are so many ways you could politely disagree while being respectful.

Amos Moses

“This website enjoys misgendering trans people. ”

The only “misgendering” going on ……… is the “trans” “misgendering” themselves ………….

Amos Moses

Another word for “misgendering” ………….. is LIE ………. why should we be respectful of a lie? …………

TheBottomline4This

Why? Why use the wrong pronoun? She is a female.

axelbeingcivil

Gender-neutral pronouns like the singular “they” and “their” aren’t wrong pronouns and could be used quite happily without either having to compromise whatever opinion you personally hold or show disrespect to the person in question.

This is deliberately just taking cheap shots at a trans person.

TheBottomline4This

Disrespect? lol
They disrespect their birth gender/sex.
They are bringing anything they perceive as negative on themselves.

axelbeingcivil

No, that’s entirely your decision. You don’t have to do or say anything to them, let alone anything that hurts them. That’s really the point. You have every option in the world to be kind and choose to say and do things you know will cause upset.

There’s lots of ways to disagree with someone. You can do it nicely, or you can be a bully. Why choose the latter when you can have the former?

TheBottomline4This

“anything that hurts them”??? That is perception. To refer to Miss Grimm as she or her is not hurtful. She is a female and she is a she and a her. If she perceives it as hurtful, well that is just too bad. That is part of her mental illness.
I’m not saying I would go up to her or anyone else and constantly say…”her, her, her” or “she, she, she”, but I would use it just like I use it with anyone else in a normal conversation. If she is offended by that, that’s her issue, since she is the one not living who she truly is which is a female. The only way I would refer to Miss Grimm in the wrong pronoun is if she had been born a he, but we both know that isn’t the case.
I would be as kind to her as anyone else if I was with her. If she didn’t like me using the right pronouns with her, then again, that is her issue. Other than that, the rest of the conversation would be not an issue with her. Only the pronouns I was using.
You attaching the word bully to this issue is stupid. I’m not bullying a trans when I refer to them by the gender/sex they were born. They are the bullies in forcing and expecting all to abide by their mental illness. Aint’ happening buddy. Do you happen to be a trans?

axelbeingcivil

All mental anguish is perception. There’s no psychic trauma that ISN’T drawn from perception. Someone causing you pain and anguish is entirely perception.

That you consider it somehow harmless doesn’t make it so to them. Feeling that this shouldn’t be hurtful doesn’t make it so to them.

Imagine, for a moment, someone misgendered you every time you spoke to them. Would you consider it a nice thing? Would you consider it friendly? If they said “Hey, I’m just referring to reality here”, would you accept it?

Gendered pronouns aren’t a physical reality; they’re not a necessity of our language or, for that matter, any language. Nothing forces you to use them. Your claim of “I do it the same as for everyone else” doesn’t matter because most people aren’t hurt by it. This person is. You’re making a decision you know will hurt someone because you disagree with them and that’s just… Cruel.

Amos Moses

We all experience it …………… grow up and live with it ………

“someone misgendered you every time you spoke to them”

Happens everyday to me ………… i like my hair long ……. i have had people say “madame” to me all the time ……….. SO WHAT???????????? ………. GROW UP ………….

axelbeingcivil

There’s a difference between an honest mistake and deliberate misuse. Imagine if people called you “she” all the time, even when they knew your biological sex. I imagine you’d get annoyed rather quickly.

Amos Moses

“There’s a difference between an honest mistake and deliberate misuse.”

NO …………. There Is Not ………….

axelbeingcivil

… Yeah there is? One has malicious intent behind it, the other doesn’t.

Amos Moses

No ……… the hearer does not know the intent ………… liars ……… hearing the truth told to them …………… seem to think the TRUTH has an evil intent ………. as you seem to now ……

axelbeingcivil

When you know that the person is upset by you using the term, you really don’t have an excuse. You can justify causing pain all you want, but you’re still causing pain.

Amos Moses

“I imagine you’d get annoyed rather quickly.”

No ……… i would grow a pair and be an ADULT about it ……..

George T

Why are transgender people always fat?

axelbeingcivil

They aren’t?

Amos Moses

Being kind by lying to them about what they are ……….. feeding into their delusion of their sex ……… but christians are cruel ………. where do you get your dictionary ……….. or ethics ……. or morals ……

We should tell those with cancer … “Hey, you are fine. You are not sick. Get out of that bed and get your butt to work.” …………. assinine ……..

TheBottomline4This

I honestly think they believe it’s not lying. They are convinced what we are saying is the lie. We are the cruel ones in their sick minds and hearts. I really do pity people who are like that.

“It” has a history of being used in dehumanizing terms. You know that.

Amos Moses

They are dehumanizing themselves ………. Body Dysmorphia will do that ………. they need Christ ……….. not their delusion re-enforced ………

axelbeingcivil

Amos, you just proposed using a term you know deliberately dehumanizes people. Unless you are trans, it seems to me that it’s other people dehumanizing them and you’re one of them.

Amos Moses

They dehumanize themselves …………

axelbeingcivil

But you just dehumanized them. Right now. You made that choice.

George T

The little freaks get what they deserve. They made the choice to be weird.

Amos Moses

They dehumanized themselves ………. they MADE A CHOICE ……. am i not supposed to re-enforce their DELUSION ……… their Body Dysmorphia …….. is that not your solution? …….. what difference does it make if they choose to believe a lie ………. you want to argue the quality of the lie ………… REALLY ………….

axelbeingcivil

You suggested calling human beings “it”. You are actively dehumanizing people. We can discuss what might be sensible solutions but not until you actually acknowledge that you just tried to dehumanize people for being different.

Are you ever going to acknowledge your own actions, Amos? Or just complain about others?

And again ………… they have DEHUMANIZED THEMSELVES in this …………. and you want to argue how the LIE should be told …… the QUALITY of the LIE ………… and all it makes you is a LIAR …………

“We can discuss what might be sensible solutions but not until you actually acknowledge that you just tried to dehumanize people for being different.”

Here is a “sensible solution” …………… STOP LYING …………

axelbeingcivil

Amos, you’re the liar. You just demonstrated it again by saying transsexuals dehumanize themselves. Nowhere here have they claimed they aren’t human, yet you have outright tried to impose a term for them you fully know is intended to be dehumanizing.

You tried to dehumanize them. You did so. And now it’s there for everyone to see. Enjoy that being there forever in cyberspace.

You can call terms like “zie” and “zir” silly but nothing about them is the same as suggesting a person isn’t a person.

Amos Moses

“You just demonstrated it again by saying transsexuals dehumanize themselves.”

They do dehumanize themselves ………. your denial is irrelevant ……… you want to feed into their body dysmorphia …. their delusion ….. and you want them to continue in their lies to themselves ……. making you a liar …………

axelbeingcivil

Call me what you want but get your own house in order first.

Amos Moses

My house is in order ………….. take your own advice …………

C_Alan_Nault

I just can’t respect a tranny. Sorry

TheBottomline4This

I respect the person as a fellow human being. They are mentally ill and need proper help to face reality, but sadly in this day and age, it will be a while before they get it.

George T

trannies are cheap and freaks and deserve nothing. But hey, I’m sure they’ll turn out to be outstanding humans…lol

Reason2012

It’s disrespectful to insist everyone else throw out biological fact, throw out the real world, and instead enter an anti-science make-believe world where up is down, or left is right, or male is female and so on.

If a person wants to live in such a make-believe world, have at it – to force everyone else to live in that world and throw out the real world, lest they feign offense and attack you for not living in their anti-reality world of their own beliefs is the only disrespect here,

axelbeingcivil

Do you not see the irony in talking about “forcing everyone else” to do something while ranting angrily about refusing to accommodate someone in a way that costs you exactly nothing?

And what biological fact are they asking you to throw out? No-one is denying that this person is biologically female. Their gender is what’s different and that’s a social construct.

TheBottomline4This

“Their gender is what’s different and that’s a social construct.”
Bull.
Now I know this is trying to be pushed and mentioned as much as possible lately by those who support this mental illness, but it simply isn’t true.

Gender is a sex, male or female..
Sex is the distinction between male and female.
That is what the Dictionary on my shelf says. If you are going by a recent Dictionary, it doesn’t count. The original meaning of a word is what counts, not a rewritten version to appease your view.
They are the same…
People ask expectant parents…
What is the gender of the baby?
What is the sex of the baby?
Same thing.

axelbeingcivil

Yes, congratulations, you’ve realized that the common usage of a word can adjust its definition with time.

Look, if you want to talk about who has the claim to the oldest meaning of the word, the first use of the word “gender” appears in the 1300s and its meaning was any class of objects. The earliest known uses of it was to refer to rules of grammar or different species as much as sexes. It shares the same root as the word “genus”.

If you want to be a prescriptivist, maybe take your argument up with Henry Fowler, the lexicographer who wrote the Concise Oxford Dictionary in 1911, who was emphatic that gender referred only to grammatical terms and not to the biological sexes.

Good grief…

TheBottomline4This

Gender is a sex, male or female..
Sex is the distinction between male and female.
Same thing.

axelbeingcivil

And you’re basing this on what? You used the dictionary as your authoritative source and said older was better, and I just pointed to the literal origins of the word and centuries of usage that disagrees with your claim. Go and check the 1911 edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary and it will outright tell you that you are wrong.

TheKingOfRhye

“People ask expectant parents…
What is the gender of the baby?
What is the sex of the baby?
Same thing.”

Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never heard anyone ask either of those things. It’s more like “is it a boy or a girl?”

“The original meaning of a word is what counts”

That’s just wrong. If that were true, a LOT of the words we use today wouldn’t mean what they do now.

Reason2012

// refusing to accommodate someone in a way that costs you
// exactly nothing?

Forcing all males to go to the bathroom with females is not “cost you exactly nothing”
Forcing all females to go to the bathroom with males is not “cost you exactly nothing”

That you have to lie says it all.

And, using your logic, since it “costs exactly nothing” to make males go to the bathroom with females” or females to go to the bathroom with males, then why complain that this one supposed “male” needs to go to the bathroom with females?

Suddenly it’s so costly and offensive that everyone else needs to bend over backwards to accommodate what suddenly “costs” everything.

More hypocrisy.

// No-one is denying that this person is biologically female.
// Their gender is what’s different and that’s a social construct.

Well then it’s settled – bathrooms are about biological_sex, not about make pretend beliefs that can change on any given day. Glad you admit she’s a biological female and hence needs to keep going to bathrooms designed for biological females.

axelbeingcivil

I didn’t say you had to agree with them or even make these allowances, chummer. You’re free to believe that there should exist a wall of separation based on sexes in bathrooms. I’m just talking about using gender-neutral pronouns and reveling in telling trans people they’re “wrong”.

Reason2012

// “I’m not a girl. I’m not using the girl’s restroom,”

Neither are the rest of the boys that you’re insisting use the bathroom with girls like you instead of with just boys.

TheBottomline4This

This is great news!!!
Miss Grimm will always be a female. Too bad she is discriminating against her true self and is intolerant of her birth gender/sex.

Reason2012

So notice the hypocritical logic they use:

If you’re a man who only FEELS like a woman, even though you still have male genitalia, it’s “discrimination” to make him use the bathroom with other men.

But if you’re REALLY a BIOLOGICAL woman (who obviously also FEELS like a woman, btw), then it’s NOT discrimination to make her use the bathroom with other men who will now walk in on her, both in bathrooms and locker rooms.

Behold the hypocrisy of their “discrimination” lies.

They want to discriminate against everyone else in the name of stopping discrimination. They are discriminating against and endangering everyone else by enabling_perverts, predators and_pedophiles.

These activists who push these agendas do not care for the LGBT people – they proved it when they rush to defend islam / sharia law when 50 LGBT were killed by yet another person following islam / sharia law. This is nothing but using LGBT to attack Christianity and normalcy.

Contact your representatives about the REAL discrimination: forcing 100% of women and little girls to use the bathroom with men who will walk in on them in bathrooms and locker rooms.

Amos Moses

Frank Turek wrote a good article recently ……….. here is part of it ……

There are no differences between men and women.

Except when we demand the right to marry people of the same sex because people of the opposite sex are just too different than people of the same sex.

You ought not judge me for what I do.

Except I can judge you for what you do. You’re an ignorant, intolerant bigot for supporting your political goals rather than mine, and for refusing to celebrate my same sex wedding.

People should be tolerant!

Except me when I’m intolerant of you and your position.

Discrimination is wrong!

Except when I discriminate against you. After all, I can refuse to bake a cake that’s against same-sex marriage, but you can’t refuse to bake one that’s for it. I’ll sue!

There is no gay agenda: Paypal Founder Peter Thiel said this at the Republican National Convention: “When I was a kid, the great debate was about how to defeat the Soviet Union. And we won. Now we are told that the great debate is about who gets to use which bathroom. This is a distraction from our real problems. Who cares?”

Except when we at Paypal care enough to cancel our business plans in Charlotte because, to us, it’s absolutely a travesty of justice to keep men out of women’s bathrooms and showers. Apparently, it’s not a travesty of justice to Paypal when Islamic countries literally murder gays and transsexuals. It’s business as usual for Paypal in those countries.

It’s wrong to accommodate differences between men and women: We at the NBA pulled our All-Star game out of Charlotte because it’s wrong to acknowledge and accommodate differences between men and women, especially by keeping them in separate restroom and shower facilities.

Except when we at the NBA acknowledge and accommodate the differences between men and women by keeping them in separate leagues, restrooms and shower facilities.

We are “inclusive and diverse”: We at the NBA made our decision according to “the long-standing core values of our league. These include not only diversity, inclusion, fairness and respect for others but also the willingness to listen and consider opposing points of view.”

Except when it comes to “diversity, inclusion, fairness and respect” for the people of North Carolina who are being excluded because their diverse and opposing point of view is not respected by us at the NBA. You see, “Inclusion and diversity” to us and other liberals actually means exclusion for those that don’t agree with our approved views. (Whoops, there goes “diversity.”) But of course, you can see our point: It’s completely unreasonable for North Carolinians to want to keep biological men out of women’s shower facilities like we at the NBA do. After all, what could possibly go wrong? In order to rectify the situation, we at the NBA should move the game to New Orleans—a city with the exact same laws as Charlotte. That’ll show everyone that we stand on principle!

Why the contradictions?

Frank Turek

More follows ……….

Reason2012

So true. Thank you for posting.

Reason2012

Matthew 19:4-6 “And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

TheBottomline4This

Exactly. God made no mistake in making us the gender/sex He wanted us to be.
But just like most things, those who reject God eventually reject how He made things. They reject the unwanted babies they abort, they reject the gender/sex they were born, they reject real marriage for fake ones, they reject morality, they reject those who choose not to reject Him, etc.
But then you hear them whining when you reject their rejections. The more stupid they get the sadder they get. As Mr. T used to say…I pity the fool…I say, I pity the fools.

http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

The poor boy. His uterus presses down on his bladder, so he can’t hold his wee.

George T

If you are a tranny then you are weird

Amos Moses

If you are a tranny ………. you need Christ Jesus ……… (we are all weird) ……..

axelbeingcivil

If you call people “tranny” to demean them, you’re a jerk.

Harbinger

What ever happened to emperical evidence? Every atheist I know have said “If God would just fly out of the sky and stand before me, I would believe.” They claim that “seeing is believing ” – emperical evidence. So why, in this instance, if a woman claims to be a man do we look the other direction from emperical evidence of the human body’s gender and say it’s all about the “scientific proof” in a study report? Many have told me the Bible is a book of lies, so why is it a scientific study is suddenly the truth? Can’t scientists lie too? Can’t they have an agenda?
If one can’t prove a scientific theory by his or her self, how do they know it is truth?
You see, it’s all based on faith, even for the atheist. Those who WANT to believe in Transgenderism will believe in it without proof, just as Believers see God in everyday things without being able to provide proof.

TheBottomline4This

They are deceived.
They are hypocrites.
They make up their own rules.
It’s kind of like when they cry for gun control to “save children’s lives”, then also support the murder of children in supporting abortions.
In the end, they are nothing but hypocrites.

Ambulance Chaser

The scientific community believes what it does BECAUSE they have proof. It’s where the evidence leads them.

TheBottomline4This

So what’s between someone’s legs isn’t proof enough to you? LOL

Ambulance Chaser

No, not by a long shot. That’s what I’ve been trying to explain to you.

TheBottomline4This

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA., oh my. You are stupid then. You have a p…you’re a male and will die a male. You have a v….you’re a female and will die a female. It’s really simple foolish one.

Ambulance Chaser

The fact that you choose to ignore mountains of scientific evidence doesn’t mean that evidence doesn’t exist or is not valid.

TheBottomline4This

To borrow part of Harbinger’s quote above…
“why is it a scientific study is suddenly the truth?
Can’t scientists lie too? Can’t they have an agenda?”

They certainly will and can.

Ambulance Chaser

Okay, so, are they? Prove it.

TheBottomline4This

You prove that they never lie.
We all know they can lie and will.
I know you think they are 100% truthful and ethical…not.

axelbeingcivil

You’re the one that made the accusation that people are telling lies here. The onus is on you to prove it.

Incidentally, never did get a response from you when I cited older dictionaries that disagreed with you.

TheBottomline4This

So you think they are are 100% truthful all of the time???

Didn’t see the other thing, I’ll check…

axelbeingcivil

I never said that. But nor do I believe scientists always lie. If you claim a lie is made, you need to demonstrate it.

Ambulance Chaser

This is really the crux of the issue.

Amos Moses

Science is a business ……….. and “peer-reviewed” does not mean truth …… or squat ……… or even diddly-squat ……….. and only costs about $500 to get BUNKUM published ……..

TheBottomline4This

Sorry I missed seeing your reply.
You said in part…”You used the dictionary as your authoritative source and said older was better,…”
Yes, older is better. I was referring to the 1828 Webster’s Dictionary…which is older than the 1911 Oxford one you are referring to.
The older dictionary says basically…
Gender is a sex, male or female..
Sex is the distinction between male and female.
So, same thing.
And even more importantly than a Dictionary is God, who made us male or female. What is between our legs is what gender/sex we are. Plus our Chromosomes make it clear.

axelbeingcivil

The Webster 1828 edition lists the definition as “properly, a kind”. Under that definition, “cow” or “farmer” or even “American” count as genders. The use of it as one’s sex is simply a common use, even in Webster’s day…

Ambulance Chaser

I didn’t say scientists never lie, are 100% truthful, or 100% ethical.

All I’ve said is that a case has been made on this topic that trans people are, for all intents and purposes, the gender they identify as and should be treated as such. The case has been made, tested, repeated to the point where it has reached a reached scientific consensus.

If you think you can defeat that consensus and create a whole new paradigm in the field of gender disorders, be my guest. But there hasn’t been a single instance in your lifetime or mine that an untrained, untested layperson has upended the scientific consensus on anything.

TheBottomline4This

Each person’s Chromosomes make it clear which gender/sex they are.

Ambulance Chaser

So, your opposition to the evidence-based decision of the entire scientific community is to stomp your foot and shout “Nuh uh! You’re wrong!”?

I mean listen, you obviously believe that science has this wrong. So, start debunking their papers. Let’s see your arguments.

Amos Moses

First …… it is not the “evidence-based decision of the entire scientific community” ….. that is just more BUNKUM ……. and the agenda of those that do agree with it ……….. HIGHLY SUSPECT ………. and as so many here about like to point out ……….. science ……… does not mean it is settled ….. especially when we get to topics like evolution ….. all of a sudden its ….. “well, welll ……. that does not mean….. ” blablablablablablabla ……….

Ambulance Chaser

If it’s “bunkum,” it should be easy to refute.

I invite you to get started.

Amos Moses

We have already done this ………. this “research” does not align with scripture ……. i invite you to prove it with scripture ……. otherwise it is just BUNKUM ……. but of course ….. you cannot ………….. this is a christian site …… the proof is SCRIPTURE ………….

sangrita

Scripture doesn’t talk about transgenderism at all. You can’t just say “scripture” any time you disagree. You have to provide scientific evidence.

Amos Moses

It talks about SIN ………. and is all that “transgenderism” is ……….. you are on a christian site ………… scripture is the standard ………….

sangrita

It talks about sin – absolutely right.
It doesn’t mention transgenderism. You decided that was sin on your own.
Because you have repeatedly shown to be biased against science and facts, I therefore call BS.

Amos Moses

Actually ……… it does ……. but as you have stated ……… you do not believe scripture …… your error ……… not the rest of the universe ……..

” You decided that was sin on your own.”

No …… the Creator did …….

“Because you have repeatedly shown to be biased against science and facts, I therefore call BS.”

The only Bovine Scatology here is what you write and what you just wrote …. and also what YOU claim is science …………. when it aint …………

sangrita

“No…… The Creator did ……”

No, that was simply you ascribing your own beliefs and biases to a God you don’t know. And anybody can do that. And they do.

Amos Moses

“ascribing your own beliefs and biases to a God you don’t know.”

We have scripture …….. so we know …………

And your beliefs tell you what ………… or do you have any ………….

“And anybody can do that.”

Lets see you try it ………….

TheKingOfRhye

Science? Don’t claim that you care about science, when you said yourself that you’d disregard any science that contradicts the Bible.

Amos Moses

No ………. your “science”, which is not really science ……………. disregards God as part of science ……… so you are in error …….. error is not science ………..

TheKingOfRhye

I don’t remember, but aren’t you one of those ‘young earth creationists’? If I’m right, that’s only more evidence you don’t care about science, because you have to ignore huge areas of science just to believe in that.

Amos Moses

“because you have to ignore huge areas of science just to believe in that.”

Again …….. we all have the exact same evidence ………. nothing ignored ……… the difference is …… you do not accept God as part of that ……….. and your musings on the evidence and what it means is in error ….. due to the fact that you exclude God … A Priori …

TheKingOfRhye

“Nothing ignored”? I’d say it’s ignored, when you start from the premise that the Bible is completely correct, and then toss out any science that happens to disagree with what the Bible says. Again, don’t pretend to be concerned with science when you’re willing to disregard any of it that doesn’t fit your beliefs.

Amos Moses

” I’d say it’s ignored, when you start from the premise that the Bible is completely correct …… and then toss out any science that happens to disagree”

No ……….. it is “tossed out” because it is not science …….. because science includes scripture, aligns with scripture ….. or it is not science ……

“Again, don’t pretend to be concerned with science ” …….. when you exclude God from it ….. because it aint ……….

Amos Moses

Your “scientific proof” either aligns with scripture ………… or it is garbage and not proof ……

sangrita

No, if it is observable, testable, and repeatable, it is demonstrably true whether scripture likes it or not. Do you know what science is?

Amos Moses

It may be all those things ………….. but your conclusions about all those things …….. are in ERROR ………. and that is the crux of the matter ………. your vision of the evidence is clouded as you reject scripture …………..

sangrita

So tell me why it’s in error then, preferably without invoking some belief system that can’t show conclusive proof. Give me scripture that actually proves something. And state why.

Amos Moses

“So tell me why it’s in error then, preferably without invoking some belief system that can’t show conclusive proof.”

So your assertions are to have no beliefs and then to come to the truth …… really ….. and if you are given a map ….. do you ignore the map as a “invoking some belief system that can’t show conclusive proof” and then just wander aimlessly ………….. because …. what …. somehow you will figure it out ……….. sounds like a very stupid way to find yourself out of the wilderness ………….. and that is YOUR ERROR …………

sangrita

I’m not in error, and I suspect you know that very well. I have plenty of beliefs but they may not line up with yours. It doesn’t make me wrong.

Amos Moses

Ahhh …… yes it does …… for one thing …….. they are of your own making ……… and you are consistently in error …….

sangrita

No, that would be yourself, sir. Scripture is only as good as the person applying it, and you only use it to suit your own purposes…

Amos Moses

Scripture is not to be “applied” by men ….. it is to be OBEYED ………. scripture interprets scripture as Christ is the only one who can interpret His word …. we are forbidden from doing what you are suggesting, adding to scripture, by 5 separate scriptures ………..

If scripture interpreted scripture, then every one of you Christians would be interpreting it the same way. I don’t have to tell you that’s not happening.
What makes you correct and all the others wrong.
Example: The Rapture. Biblical or not?

Amos Moses

“Christians would be interpreting it the same way.”

Nope …….. and scripture says so ……….

1Cor 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

2Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

“The Rapture. Biblical or not?”

Not open to debate that it will happen …… many debate WHEN it will occur …..

sangrita

“Not open to debate that it will happen”

Well then it’s my chance to say BULLROAR right back to you, because a two second Google search will tell you that many Christians, if not most, don’t believe in the rapture and don’t consider it Biblical. And whether you agree or not, or want to tell me they are false Christians (which of COURSE you will say), because my point is made. You are not in agreement with other Bible-believing Christians on this point. So scripture has not interpreted scripture. And your insistence that you are right has been thrown into doubt because Christian A and Christian B cannot agree on this matter. And MANY other matters too, such as infant baptism and veneration of saints.

Amos Moses

And they are then not Christian ……….. there are certain common beliefs to be considered within orthodoxy …….. the rapture is one of them ……. non-belief would put them outside orthodoxy and make them not christian …….

“So scripture has not interpreted scripture.”

YUP ……… hence the heresies pointed out earlier …….. and those that preach them …. as scripture points out ………..

sangrita

And so you are callously waving your hand and dismissing not just a FEW Christians, but the majority of them…who do not believe in the rapture.
So that is a kind of arrogance that I have rarely seen in a fundamentalist Christian to this enormous extent. Congratulations.
And in fact it is a logical fallacy called No True Scotsman, where you claim to be better and truer than the others for no reason other than you disagree with them.
Scripture has interpreted nothing here. All this is, is more division within the Christian ranks.

Amos Moses

So when you want to eat a Whopper ….. do you go to McDonalds ………….

sangrita

Are you attempting to make some sort of point with that question?

Amos Moses

Yes ………. you go to McDonalds to get a Whopper …. am i right …….

sangrita

And?

Amos Moses

OK …. i heard yes ……….

Amos Moses

Because they make Whoppers at McDonalds …. am i right ………. or if McDonalds changed the name of the Big Mac to Whopper ….. well thats cool and you would go for that ……… because that is what you wanted …..am i right ….

Amos Moses

and if McDonalds changes the name of the Big Mac to Whopper ….. Burger King should just shut up and deal with it ……….am i right ……

sangrita

Maybe you should just tell me where you are going with this. I smell another apples-to-oranges comparison coming.

Amos Moses

So Whoppers are the same thing as Big Macs ….. Right ….. and Burger King has no say in it ….. Right …….

Ambulance Chaser

That’s a patently ludicrous thing to say. There is nothing in scripture that bans gay marriage; you got that by combining disparate passages together and coming up with your best guess as to what God would say about the topic, i.e. interpreting scripture.

Amos Moses

“There is nothing in scripture that bans gay marriage; you got that by combining disparate passages together and coming up with your best guess as to what God would say about the topic, i.e. interpreting scripture.”

And your evidence ………. right …. none …. just an opinion ….. and an uninformed opinion at that …………..

Ambulance Chaser

Okay, then show me the passage in the Bible that bans gay marriage. Remember: no “interpreting.” You have to cite something that specifically, explicitly and clearly bans gay marriage.

Amos Moses

Matthew 19 spells out Gods plan for what marriage IS ………… anything outside that …….. IS NOT …… and BTW, there is absolutely no endorsement of homosexuality anywhere in scripture ……….. and all you have is an argument from silence ……… silence is not an argument …..

Ambulance Chaser

If silence isn’t an argument, I guess the Bible doesn’t ban gay marriage.

Amos Moses

The bible explicitly spelled out what marriage IS ……….. and homomarriage …. WAS NOT …..

Ambulance Chaser

Why does research have to align with scripture? What if scripture is just wrong?

Amos Moses

You are on a christian site ………. the default position is God/Christ created all … has told us all we need to know to judge what we are told ………. and IF scripture is wrong …. it is up to the person asserting it ….. TO PROVE IT ……. and misreading of “scientific evidence” …… sorry ….. NOT PROOF ………….

FYI, unless you have an ordered universe ……. and are able to consistently and empirically test ……… science means absolutely nothing ….. so your first task is to prove that the universe “self-ordered” out of chaos ……….. good luck with that ………

sangrita

“You are on a christian site”
So are you…when are you going to behave like one?

Sex is biological and a more or less objective feature of reality. Though there can be blurring factors, for most people, it’s binary.

Gender is a social construct; it’s the layers society builds around the roles of the sexes and the associations thereof. Naturally, people often don’t fit in the neat little boxes and can easily end up identifying with a gender different than the one societies usually ascribe.

Amos Moses

You are confusing truth with your own bloviating propaganda ………

TheBottomline4This

Exactly.

Amos Moses

“Every atheist I know have said “If God would just fly out of the sky and stand before me, I would believe.” ”

No they wouldn’t ………

Amos Moses

i am not a big fan of Frankie ….. but when he is right …. he is right ….

Pope Francis Describes Transgenderism as the ‘Annihilation of Man’

Amos Moses

PASTOR OFFERS VIRAL LETTER TO PROTECT NON-TRANSGENDER KIDS
Uses existing law to offer parents way to fight back new rules in school

WND …………….

Gena B

“isolated from his peers”… Isolated from guys or girls? Using the bathroom will help you not feel isolated from your peers? How many times does this kid have to go to the bathroom at school? This stuff may get dragged out in courts for a while and perhaps this kid will graduate by then.

Michael Falsia

Transgenderism is a sign that a society has gone mad! No other explanation. The existentialism of the last century has brought forth its rotten fruit!

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