Deus Ex 3: Human Revolution

A promising-sounding title, but I'm going to adopt a "wait-and-see" approach. Chances are it won't live up to the first game.

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Deus Ex 3 is a first-person shooter/role-playing game that takes place before the events of the original title. It features changes to the series such as camera switches that move from the first- to third-person perspectives during special attacks and in cover situations. In an illustrative video showing environmental patterning and architecture, the screen displayed a temporary Dpad configuration showing the ability to turn lights on, teleport, exit, and unfreeze time. These are likely to have been place holder actions. The game also delivers new characters, weapons, environments, and character abilities.

Personally I would like to see Square-Enix Europe fuck with this game and put spiky-haired characters with big swords in it. I would buy it just for the comedy value. I certainly wouldn't buy it for the franchise name, since it is not being made by anyone who had anything to do with the original classic or the desultory consolified sequel.

From a gameplay standpoint, IGN (surprisingly) has an interview with the most relevant information. The one thing that stood out for me was this quote:

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Like the first game, our game world is designed around a multi-path, multi-solution approach so any objective can be approached in different ways. Whether you like action, stealth, hacking, or interacting with characters, you can complete objectives in different ways.

The two primary gameplay styles are combat and stealth....The two supporting gameplay styles are hacking and social interactions.

I'm not sure I believe this given the original claim by Eidos that they were looking to make a Summer Blockbuster type game, which the original Deus Ex was most certainly not.

Also, Gamasutra has some interesting commentary from the game's director on the game's aesthetics. For some reason, most of the Deus Ex 3 interviews focused on the aesthetics rather than gameplay. Makes one question the priorities of game journalists.

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Originally posted by The Faceless Rebel:Personally I would like to see Square-Enix Europe fuck with this game and put spiky-haired characters with big swords in it. I would buy it just for the comedy value.

It has oversized angel #%$ error: must modify for western tastes Icarus wings. That's something.

I'd say the opposite. I just finished playing Bioshock (yes, I'm behind the times, at least I finally played it) and its level were extremely linear compared to Deus Ex. I haven't played the Call of Duties, but from what I've heard the single-player levels are damn-near rail shooters given how much room you have to go off the main path. As budgets have gotten higher, many developers simply can't afford to put it vast areas that most played will never see. In Deus Ex, a straight play-through of Hong Kong wouldn't show you more than a third of that level at the absolute max. Off the top of my head, Jock's apartment, the entire canal are, and the collapsed tunnel required extensive exploration just to locate (and that's going from memory for a game I played 7 or 8 years ago). Most modern games just aren't willing to let that much content potentially go to waste.

The issue with Hong Kong is that it was too large. The developers couldn't fill up that large map. There are a few scattered rooms with people and a few goodies but it's clear that Ion Storm ran out of time/money before they could bring it to life. I spent hours swimming through the canals amazed by how it just seemed to keep on going. There are even a couple of rooms that are walled off but are visible if you clip through them juuuust right. Filling that area with meaningful content would be an even bigger undertaking today. The only way to do it would be to go the GTA route and add throngs of scripted, may-as-well-not-exist NPCs.

I'm not sure I like the shiny Squeenix graphics of the trailer either. Deus Ex was criticized at launch for being graphically outdated, but that added to its seedy, gritty feel IMO. It was the future, but not the slick, shiny future that we often see.

A BOMB! is all I have to say.Deus Ex was brilliant because it was campy. Making any mainstream incarnation will pollute the spirit of the title, probably creating a mediocre gaming experience and a turd in comparison to the original. I could see a few development houses doing the series justice, but Squeenix is not one of them.

All of the market motivations which resulted in DX2 sucking ass have only become stronger since then. "Wait and see?" I think not. My sentiments are leaning heavily towards STFA. I'd like to call it instinct, but sadly, I think I have common sense and past history on my side, too.

I am not sure how much of the Deus Ex love is nostalgia, since I haven't played it since I had an original GeForce card installed... However, in the day I played through it two or three times whereas I stopped playing Invisible War after around two hours. Wasn't enjoying it at all. Not holding out a lot of hope for this one either, since I am expecting it to go even further into "console" territory.

Well, at least they understand that it was shoddy level design that made IW so poor compared with the original. That's a good sign for the potential of a 3rd game. I'd like a good amount of depth to the rpg elements, but I've set my expectations at about IW/ bioshock level. Thesr designs work so long as the level design supports different builds well.

I don't give a damn if somebody owns the rights to the Deus Ex IP and wants to slap the name on something. The name means nothing, as anyone who's read Starship Troopers and seen the so called movie knows.

I really like the cyberpunk/renaissance art style they're using though. I haven't seen any in-game footage but even the marketing stuff that's out so far shows that they are really thinking through what they want to do with the setting and taking it in their own direction. That has me interested enough to see what kind of game they end up with.

Is accessibility really such a terrible thing in the industry? They can't all be complex, intricate control systems, can they? Why is moving towards streamlined interfaces viewed with such disdain, exactly?

Personally, I love a good challenge, but I sure as hell love me some cover system as well.

Originally posted by Jakal:I'll give you that the art style is interesting (though not at all in sync with the original, IMO), but comments like this...

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It features changes to the series such as camera switches that move from the first- to third-person perspectives during special attacks and in cover situations.

...implies pretty clearly that they're going to be implementing a cover system. Interpret that how you'd like. To me, this means they're trying to make DX3 more "accessible" and gamepad friendly.

I interpret it to mean somebody is making a game with a cover system, hired some good artists, and is calling it Something Something Some-Number. Until I have a playable demo, that's all there is to know.

Deus Ex was fine in its place, but I'm not sure the universe is strong enough for the whole prequel/sequel thing. My guess is that might've been a problem in IW (just based on the story synopsis), though I admit I haven't played it so I can't say for sure.

I just want a cyberpunk rpg, or rpg-like game. I'm not entirely sure I'd want it in the Deux Ex setting, as I could do without the UNATCO, Templars, and Illuminati stuff. I'd rather spend some time in a "sprawl" (which, by the trailer, this game might have) so here's hopin'...

Originally posted by Vincent Avatar:Is accessibility really such a terrible thing in the industry? They can't all be complex, intricate control systems, can they? Why is moving towards streamlined interfaces viewed with such disdain, exactly?

Simply put, people are afraid that the things they liked from the past game will be removed.

It doesn't help that "accessible" also is often used as a code word to "make it more like the latest blockbuster game"; see also quick time events, Square Enix forcing resource system changes on Supreme Commander 2, or- probably most relevant to Jakal's comment- the proliferation of uninspired cover mechanics in FPSes following the sales success of Gears of War.

I don't think many would argue against making a game easier to learn or providing an efficient UI to play the game. Few would argue that having simple, accessible games available to the gaming public is a bad thing either as long as that doesn't mean that more complex games are abandoned in their stead. It's not entirely without cause, however, that some people might be nervous when they hear that a game they love is going to undergo changes to make it more "accessible".

I'd agree, though, that just the presence of a cover system doesn't make me panic on the Deus Ex front. I suspect Jakal is still nervous after his disappointment with Supreme Commander 2. Plus, hey, Deus Ex 2 already let many Deus Ex fans down so I suspect expectations are already tempered with caution for most of us.

Well, I loved DeusEx1 and DeusEx2... Yeah, I said it. So I am surely to get this game.

See, I played DeusEx2 after the community texture patch, so it looked a lot better then the vanilla release.

To top it off, it is exactly what I like in my game play. I almost ALWAYS do a stealth based play through utilizing the tranq gun/cross bow, and I add a bit of hacking on top of that. I love what they did with the movie, you have the crazy vision of them operating on him, but they look like they are all from the middle ages. Then he has the vision of rising up out of his body, and I feel those are angel wings, not icarus wings (as I see it) since they are not built onto him but replace his arms, then he gets too high (like in Icarus) and his arms are all that is left. Then he wakes up, as if from a nightmare. Tries to drink, but his cyber arms are too strong and crack the glass. Then he sees through the wall and finds people are going to attack him (anyone notice that he automatically identifies an injury on one of the attackers). Also, I love the auto sunglasses.

Originally posted by ShaggyMoose:I am not sure how much of the Deus Ex love is nostalgia

They were on a steam sale for $10 for the both, so I played through the second this weekend. The first is still excellent and the second mediocre. Trying to remain objective, I do appreciate some of the streamlining they did, mostly by making the low draw augs passives and consolidating the low tech/arm strength/combat strength augs (which I always found screwy in the first). I also like that people react to bodies.

The problem with IW is that everything is only done halfway. It's not just the level design. As an example, the books lying around the game are readable in both games. In the first, each "book" is 3+ paragraphs and there's a complete (if poor) short story scattered across the world. In IW, the books are a single paragraph and they're mostly repeats. Quality is fractal. The other major problem is that they tried to shift the decision making from linear storyline with character/tactics decision making (e.g. you can't use a sniper rifle exclusively due to lack of ammo) to storyline decision making which would have been okay if the decisions actually made a difference.

If anybody wants to play through the original, I have a pacifist guide, which I wrote but never bothered to publish. It's really the best way to experience the game because you get to hear all the conversations (and some are pretty extensive) and the more puzzle-based approach gives a bit more appreciation for the level design.

Originally posted by Delor:I suspect Jakal is still nervous after his disappointment with Supreme Commander 2.

Absolutely, along with my disappointment with most cross-platform big-name releases of the past year or so.

I never understood the cover system. With the ability to crouch alone, I can simulate the mechanic. Let me go prone and lean, and the mechanic becomes entirely irrelevant. However, these functions require buttons. What lacks buttons for functions which are of questionable importance to the casual gamer (read: the majority of the gaming market)? A gamepad. The crouch mechanic makes sense on a console. It's a damn good mechanic, and enhances my gameplay experience when I have to use a gamepad. However, it's very clearly a console-specific mechanic.

When I say "accessibility," make no mistake, what I really mean is "they are going to design this title around the interests of the largest portion of their market in order to net the greatest profit." As has been well established by now, the console market is king... the influence of this has been clearly visible on cross-platform PC releases for a while now. We will see few if any PC-specific big-name releases from here on out. This title is being released for PC, PS3, and 360. When I say "accessible," what I'm saying is "while this may be a great game on its own merit, it's going to be an abomination relative to the original PC Deus Ex."

I have yet to see anything good come of this flavor of "accessibility" as far as PC gamers are concerned. Will this result in more sales of the title? Certainly. But it's also going to result in complaint regarding neutered features from GESC fans of the original game (read: the vast majority of us with a PC background).

So, with all that being the case, again, while I'd like to be cautiously optimistic, industry trends guarantee this title will leave much to be desired as far as a sequel to the original Deus Ex is concerned.

My only misgiving with making Deus Ex 3 a prequel is that the first game made a rather big deal about the fact that JC and his brother were the very first fully-functional biotech agents - all of the ones before were cyborgs, with machinery replacing meat. They mention it in the tutorial, and beat you over the head with this detail repeatedly over the course of the game. Is DX3 going to be true to this lore, or are we going to be some "unknown" biotech character shoehorned into the world's backstory?

One thing I find irritating is how the project lead for Deus Ex 3 is always talking down Deus Ex, and trying to justify the known dumb downs of his game as being some novel wheel re-invention which improves things. It's the opposite...it unsells me on his game.

He sounds like a twat....how do you improve on perfection? Asshat has no idea about the bar his game will have to exceed. And sit there and talk talk condescendingly about one of the best PC games of all time (arguably) just smacks of douchebaggery.

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My only misgiving with making Deus Ex 3 a prequel is that the first game made a rather big deal about the fact that JC and his brother were the very first fully-functional biotech agents - all of the ones before were cyborgs, with machinery replacing meat. They mention it in the tutorial, and beat you over the head with this detail repeatedly over the course of the game. Is DX3 going to be true to this lore, or are we going to be some "unknown" biotech character shoehorned into the world's backstory?

The Dentons were the first nano-augmented cyborgs. Mechanically enhanced cyborgs (Gunther, Anna, Simons) had been around a while. DX3 presumably is only dealing with mechanical augmentations.

Originally posted by ShaggyMoose:I am not sure how much of the Deus Ex love is nostalgia, since I haven't played it since I had an original GeForce card installed... However, in the day I played through it two or three times whereas I stopped playing Invisible War after around two hours. Wasn't enjoying it at all. Not holding out a lot of hope for this one either, since I am expecting it to go even further into "console" territory.

Ok, watched the trailer... Looks better than I expected. Mixed opinions on how the mechanical implants seem to be as good as they are. Seems like they might actually be better than they appear to be 25 years later in DE.

Either way, if they do this well then they deserve the money they should make. Sadly, I can't help but feel the people who could do the most justice to Deus Ex are Bioware given what they've done with Mass Effect.

That aside, this is getting me in the mood to play Deus Ex again. What mods to people recommend to get it up and running and looking at least a little less ugly as sin on Vista x64?

Originally posted by Brimstar:Sadly, I can't help but feel the people who could do the most justice to Deus Ex are Bioware given what they've done with Mass Effect.

Really? I would have said Obsidian. Especially considering how Alpha Protocol looks pretty much like a third-person, spy-themed Deus Ex.

I could see them doing a good job as well. In the end, I've enjoyed more Bioware games than Obsidian, and the only thing that would be worse than a bad game is if they did a DE3 as good as KOTOR2 was shaping up to be and it ended just as unfinished.

Ok, just looked up Alpha Protocol as I somehow had missed hearing about it. Don't always pay attention to gaming news. I'll have to look up a bit more, but that looks good so far.

Originally posted by Brimstar:Sadly, I can't help but feel the people who could do the most justice to Deus Ex are Bioware given what they've done with Mass Effect.

Really? I would have said Obsidian. Especially considering how Alpha Protocol looks pretty much like a third-person, spy-themed Deus Ex.

While playing Mass Effect 1 on the PC, I wondered why it felt so much like something from the past, then I realized that it felt a lot like playing Deus Ex. I'd run around a largish environment talking to people, sometimes running into combat situations or having a conversation segue into combat. Both games had hacking/overriding minigames, and both had inventory systems that pulled you out of the game world a bit while you fiddled around with them. I loved both games equally, and if someone were to take the Mass Effect 2 version of the Unreal engine and make a good deep Deus Ex game with it I'd be a very happy gamer!

Originally posted by Grayrest:The problem with IW is that everything is only done halfway. It's not just the level design. As an example, the books lying around the game are readable in both games. In the first, each "book" is 3+ paragraphs and there's a complete (if poor) short story scattered across the world. In IW, the books are a single paragraph and they're mostly repeats. Quality is fractal. The other major problem is that they tried to shift the decision making from linear storyline with character/tactics decision making (e.g. you can't use a sniper rifle exclusively due to lack of ammo) to storyline decision making which would have been okay if the decisions actually made a difference.

And sadly, all said and done, there is pretty much the same amount of actual storyline decisions in each one. You pretty much make your choice at the end of who to side with, the second just gives you a stronger illusion that things before that choice affect the end game- but in actuality, you can make your choice at the end just like DX1.

Originally posted by HexRei:You pretty much make your choice at the end of who to side with, the second just gives you a stronger illusion that things before that choice affect the end game- but in actuality, you can make your choice at the end just like DX1.

Upon reflection, I think there's actually more consequential decision making in the first, since you actually have the ability to kill story significant characters at various times (or not) and all the branches are handled if not always well.

A BOMB!

As for mods: There might be graphics mods, but I consider the grainy textures and horrible lip syncing to be part of the experience. The only mod I really like is the one that automatically turns on/off the power recirculator. There's also one that adds emp attacks to melee swings aug a la the IW aug, which is more interesting in the oiginal since EMP doesn't permanently disable cameras/tripwires and you have to be faster. Otherwise, I don't remember any being particularly special.

Originally posted by Brimstar:Sadly, I can't help but feel the people who could do the most justice to Deus Ex are Bioware given what they've done with Mass Effect.

Really? I would have said Obsidian. Especially considering how Alpha Protocol looks pretty much like a third-person, spy-themed Deus Ex.

While playing Mass Effect 1 on the PC, I wondered why it felt so much like something from the past, then I realized that it felt a lot like playing Deus Ex. I'd run around a largish environment talking to people, sometimes running into combat situations or having a conversation segue into combat. Both games had hacking/overriding minigames, and both had inventory systems that pulled you out of the game world a bit while you fiddled around with them. I loved both games equally, and if someone were to take the Mass Effect 2 version of the Unreal engine and make a good deep Deus Ex game with it I'd be a very happy gamer!

I disagree, anyone can list a ton of games with Conversations, Combat and Minigames that are nothing alike. The spirit of Deus Ex is freedom and exploration based gameplay, and Bioware can't or won't make a game without tons of load screens and invisible walls where everything is scripted. Bioware games and Deus Ex stand on opposite points of the computer RPG design space. The details about the inventory, skill trees… are red herrings.

Bioware could make a Deus Ex, and it could be decent, but it wouldn't be the same kind of game.

I played and enjoyed Bioshock. So they can't hurt me with their shitty System Shock 3 and Deus Ex 3 titles. If it turns out to be as good as the original(s), I'll give it a play through. Otherwise I'm expecting another letdown like Invisible War.

Originally posted by BFG10K:I liked the first two games so I’ll probably like the third. The second one in particular looks very good at 2560x1600 with the high resolution content. In fact, I feel like replaying it again soon.