Last week, Jason shared a guest post on how to negotiate to save money. Daylily Diva wrote to share her own experiences, which I've reproduced here with permission.

I love haggling — it's second nature to me. If I'm buying bagged mulch at the garden center and some sacks have small puncture holes, I negotiate a discount because the sacks are damaged. I negotiate on everything. For one thing, I'm in the antiques business, and that forces you to learn haggling from day one.

Standard operating procedure
First, I'm always upbeat and happy when I haggle. I'm friendly, smiling, good-natured, make jokes. I never insult the person or his merchandise. I make the seller want to give me a discount to make the sale. After the money changes hands, I thank the seller. If they're not busy making other sales, I tell them how much I will enjoy using a particular item which I've bought. When I leave the seller has money and is in a happier frame of mind than before I arrived. This is the “win/win” technique.

Here are some of the common ways I negotiate. Many people do these things.

If I'm at a yard sale or buying a bunch of things, I pile them up and ask for a better price because I'm buying a lot.

I always ask if there's a discount for good customers, and that's often all it takes to get a discount.

I ask, “Can you take $XXX if I promise to give it a good home?” I say, “It's so cute, I don't need it, but it's really attractive, can you take $XXX for it?” It's amazing how minor a nudge it takes to get something off the price.

These are common techniques that many people use. But there are a couple of others that work very well.

Good buyer, bad buyer
This is a wonderful technique. The good buyer expresses interest to the salesperson. She then consults with bad buyer, who is along for the ride. The bad buyer has a glum attitude and many negative feelings, which he expresses. The salesperson works to overcome the objections.

When we reach the absolute bottom price by haggling, the good buyer then says, “Well, my husband hates it but I like it, so if you can knock another 10% off I will take it anyway.” This gives them the salesperson option of dropping ten per cent more which they usually do, or counter with a 5% discount. Either way, you are ahead another five or ten percent!

Getting the boot
I use another trick after I arrive at the absolute rock bottom price with the seller, when they will not go a penny lower. At this point, I ask them to throw in some small extra thing. At a yard sale, for instance, I have made my pile of merchandise, obtained a rock bottom price for the heap, where the seller will go no lower. I then pick up some other item and say, “You drive a hard bargain. If you will toss in this lamp (or dog toy or vintage pillow or bread machine or whatever) to boot I will pay your price.” And they do!

Point out the positives
Praise the object and tell them why you like it, but admit that it is more expensive than you can manage. I once bought a house this way. The woman's childhood home was for sale — her parents had died. The price was $45,000. She rented it to a nasty, dirty couple who stored dead cars on the lot, did not mow the lawn, stored junk in the house, etc. Every time a potential buyer came through to look, the man beat his wife while they were there, and it would not sell. People made the owner low-ball offers while insulting her about the condition by telling her how ratty it was. (Which it was, by the way.)

I went through and saw potential. I arranged to have owner meet us at the property, which the real estate agent hated. But after three years of carrying this house on the for sale roster, the agent was desperate. I took the owner by the elbow, walked her around the property and through the house. Periodically I would comment to her on things which I liked.

I admired the scraggly hydrangea which her father had planted and asked her what flowers to plant around the base of it to make it look most attractive. I commented on how clever her father had been to build a summer house out of nothing and how much he must have enjoyed using it. I talked about how cute the house was, like a tiny cottage in the woods. I didn't say one single negative thing. I chatted about some of the neighbors who had known her family and what warm feelings the neighbors had for her deceased parents. I talked about how charming the house was when she was young, and how happy she must have been when she lived there as a child. I got her to talk about her life when she lived there.

This woman already knew the negatives because people had been telling her about them for three years.

The owner cut the price from $45,000 to $25,000 on the spot. She took my $5000 down payment and held the mortgage for the balance at below bank rate for five years, which was all it took to pay off the house in full. She turned the garage over to me three months before the closing and I rented it to a man for storage for $100/month, earning myself $300 gross rent before closing on the house!

Because the owner held the paper, I didn't have to have for pay for inspections, appraisals, points or origination fees. I got a bargain, and the woman was thrilled to sell the house to me for practically half price! She walked away from the deal happy as a clam.

That's how to haggle, and it's often by not running the thing into the ground.

The exception to the rule
The only place I don't get the best deal if I negotiate for myself is car dealerships. When buying a car, I negotiate the best deal possible and get it in writing. No matter how good the deal is, I return later with a man. I let him do all the talking. I let him go mano a mano with the salesman while I sit silently by doing my “bump on a log” act.

We invariably get another discount. This would be depressing if I allowed myself to be depressed — instead I use the system to buy my cars at cheap prices. At car dealerships, a man who knows negotiation gets the best price.

In my experience, almost everything is negotiable. I negotiate. The worst the seller can say is “no” and if so, so what? Most people will give a discount if they are ready to sell — you just have to ask!

There are some things that haggling is a socially accepted practice. However, in retail, we have a name for people like this. We call them jerks. When a person is willing to take advantage of someone else’s lack of negotiating experience or play on someones emotions, that person should take a look in the mirror. Do I really feel good about trading my self respect and reputation to gain a few bucks on a transaction?

Nice article! I’d like to add one additional negotiating technique. I actually realized one time that a seller was using this technique on me, so I decided to turn the tables and try it out the next time the opportunity presented itself. I’ve found that it works.

I was buying a memory card at a flea market and the seller’s asking price was ridiculously high. I countered with an amount that I felt was reasonable. The two people working behind the counter both laughed at me. I began to doubt the reasonableness of my offer, and in the end I paid a slightly higher amount for the item.

Laughing at my counter-offer was, I’m pretty darn sure, a calculated strategy. The sellers realized that ganging up on buyers was an effective tactic – that two people actually laughing at a person really pokes a hole in that person’s confidence.

Well, buyers can take advantage of this technique, too. I wouldn’t feel quite right using this on some friendly neighborhood lady at a garage sale, but you know, sellers can be really cutthroat, and when dealing with those that invite ruthless tactics, having two or more people actually laugh at the seller’s opening price can be very effective at getting that price lowered.

I used to work in retail and I have to agree with Shannon. Hagglers should NEVER push their tactics and use emotional manipulation on someone who is clearly not interested in haggling. It’s tacky and arrogant. People try pulling that crap on me and I shut them down.

I would just like to say that being a vendor at craft fairs and art shows, this technique and customer is never appreciated. Yard sales and flea markets are one thing but I have had buyers try to do this with beautiful hand made items and it is not only irritating but insulting.

One more tip for bigger items–bring cash. This has gotten me great deals on a couch and a mattress. If you can say, “I can give you X amount in cash, right now,” you can usually offer a lower price and have it gladly accepted. You do have to be fair, though, and be willing to walk away if the price you’re willing to pay isn’t met.

And I second that being friendly can help. When I bought the mattress, the salesperson worked hard to combine all the available deals (like current radio promotions, etc.) to get me to the price I needed. I doubt she would have gone to the trouble if I’d been rude or unfriendly.

I’m going to echo Shannon’s sentiments about haggling and retail, especially at a national chain store. I used to work for a computer company known for its music player, success, and nondisclosure agreement for employees. Generally, I would go out of my way to give people discounts when possible–“oh, you have a Navy Federal bank card. Are you in the military? That gets you X% off.” I had one customer, though, who illustrates the problem with hagglers:

This lady said she was a teacher looking for our smallest MP3 player, although come purchase time she couldn’t produce a current school identity card. Educators and college students get very good discounts on computers and software, but not on music players–it’s company policy. She insisted because she worked for the schools, she got the federal discount (which did apply to music players), because she was a government employee. I explained no, educators get different kinds of discounts, so we can’t run them with that discount–an unfortunate thing, and I sympathized, but true. When she started to get aggravated over it, I just basically gave up and gave her the discount anyways (with my powers of executive decision)–she got 6% off a $79 product, for a savings of just under $5.

About a week later, I got called to the back office about inappropriately giving out discounts, because the transaction came up improperly. I got a reprimand for it–over $5. I got grief from the woman trying to abuse the system–over $5.

In college, a friend of mine worked at Home Depot, and gave a 10% discount for “damaged stock,” which is acceptable to the company. She was fired, because stores have acceptable limits on those discounts, and she exceeded them as an employee.

Haggle on a car. Haggle on a house. Haggle on garage sales. Don’t haggle in a national retail chain, please–giving discounts, no matter how small, can really bite the employee. It puts them in a hard place as decision-makers–either they can get busted for giving you what you want, or they can get busted for a customer making a scene about NOT getting what he wants (while the author sounds like a respectable haggler, too many people are willing to throw a temper tantrum instead).

This was an interesting read with some good point (especially being positive), but to me it just seems like you end up with a lot of crap. Generally I’m only spending money at places where haggling won’t work – grocery store, restaurant, etc. In other words I’m not buying “stuff”. I know directly what I want and where to get it for the least amount of money. But my sister buys and sells horses and land – she uses the positive techniques and really turns on the charm – its amazing what deals she can get.

As a female and a car buyer I go in with 2 things – extensive research and my checkbook. I dress nice (not business, just casual nice) and I make it clear I’m paying cash. I usually call the dealership first – for some reason if a woman calls they give her a saleswoman – so I don’t have to deal with a man when I go to the dealership (my husband even had me call for him so he could get a saleswoman instead of a man – LOL).

I then go and talk to the saleswoman I talked to on the phone and I look around, test drive, etc. I tell them what I’m willing to pay including taxes and fees. If they dont’ give me that price I leave. I usually get a call the next day saying they’ll sell. If I dont’ get the call then I go somewhere else, I’m not brand specific and I’m never in position where I “need” the car. If mine is wrecked I can always rent a few more weeks if it means saving a few more thousand on a car. I guess I’d call this the “no BS technique”. I also try to channel some of that charm my sister uses so effectively.

One workaround for Kate’s employment issue is to simply point out something damaged at the register. It helps to have a foil here — a friend you turn to and say “oh, hm. Look. There’s a hole here”. Then, leave a few seconds of silence. If it’s in the best interest of the salesperson to give you that discount, they will. Often they get a commission on a product and are also enabled to give these discounts as they see fit. So, if you’re unsure whether it would put them in a bad spot, you can let them do the driving.

Even if you decide you don’t want to haggle at the big-box stores or at a flea market, it’s worth it to know how to haggle if you travel. Americans are notorious for not haggling even in countries where haggling is standard. If you don’t negotiate, you get ripped off.

Anne,
You are 100% right. Haggling is a pain sometimes out of the country but worth it when trying to buy things. I had the experience in Mexico and you basically had to haggle if you wanted to buy something. Might as well test things out at a garage sale!

I consider myself a competent negotiator, but some of the suggestions here seem unethical to me; the first is “good cop/bad cop” and the second is “nibbling”, or what the author called “the boot”. Two excellent books on negotiating, Bargaining for Advantage and Getting Past No, explain why many people consider these tactics sleazy, and how you can do much better in the long term by taking a different approach.

In the US a lot of people are poor negotiators and I have no doubt these tactics work with them, but eventually everyone will meet someone competent who does not appreciate attempts to manipulate them or change the terms of a negotiation after the fact. And competent negotiators typically show up when the stakes are high, making the potential loss from acquiring these negotiating habits a lot greater than the gain from acquiring a few garage sale doodads.

As far as negotiating for cars goes, in the event that you are buying a new car, the evidence I’ve seen suggests that the most effective way to do that is to negotiate by email with the internet sales representatives of multiple dealerships, where your gender can be unknown if you wish. Once you’re in one particular dealership on their turf, you are automatically at a huge disadvantage that’s nearly impossible to overcome. We’ve only ever purchased one new car, but we got it for about $3k below the invoice price; we could have done better than that, but my husband got tired of the process and agreed to buy before I was ready to quit (the dealers were each giving $100 off on each round, and he was too impatient to do a half dozen or more rounds of this, unfortunately). I’ll note that this is one situation where we could have played “good cop, bad cop” but as mentioned I find this tactic unethical. (But if we ever buy a new car again my husband won’t agree to a deal without consulting me again.)

This is something I could improve upon, because I am traditionally not a good “haggler.” With the exception of buying large ticket items such as furniture, I would rather just pay what’s asked or walk (particularly at yard sales). I guess that’s because I am already getting a good deal (usually) at a yard sale or flea market – too much haggling makes me feel like a cheapskate. Then again, I’ve probable left some money on the table with this mentality that I could pocketed and saved.

I pretty much agree with most that was said – haggling makes sense, even expected in some places and some countries – garage sales, flea markets, gem shows, car dealerships, some countries. I wouldn’t haggle in a large department store. I would ask them if they expect something to go on sale, if there is a problem with an item I’ll point it, but that’s the extent of it.

With housing a lot depends on whether you are in a buyer’s market or a seller’s market, also on how the property is valued relative to others. If the prices are falling, even if they are stable, or if the asking price is too high, you can bid it down. But when prices are rising, especially in a hot seller’s market – good luck. In late 90s when prices started to go up, in some areas, ask for too much below asking price, and you won’t get a place, and the next place you see would be more expensive. In early 2000s there were bidding wars in my area. I was selling a condo in 2003, and I had a full asking price offer within a week. I had another one – above asking price, but the buyer changed his mind. So with real estate you really need to know the market. Now is a buyer’s market and this will probably continue for a while.

I have worked in education AND in retail and I have to agree with Shannon and Kate. People who haggle in retail are seriously the worst. It’s not a 3rd world fruit market, it’s not a garage sale or flea market. There are price tags on things for a reason. Because THAT IS THE PRICE. If you don’t wish to pay that price, shop around online, in thrift stores and discount stores and you will probably get a better price. If you want instant gratification of walking away with the item, you know exactly how much currency should change hands.
Educators are the worst offenders. They demand a discount on everything. I worked in a school where the starting salary for a teacher was in the $60K realm, with most of them much higher. And they would come to me in the tech dept. and ask me to call around and find them an ISP who gave education discounts, tell them how to steal their neighbor’s wireless internet and demand free copies of software for home use because they didn’t want to pay for it. And then they all got into their fancy imported cars, drove to their McMansions and counted their money. Meanwhile, I paid for software, internet and live in a modest working-class neighborhood. I found the constant bartering for everything deplorable and the sense of entitlement reprehensible. Yes, teachers do a great service. They (mostly) don’t get paid enough. But you know what? I work hard too. And I don’t get paid enough. They should get discounts for School Supplies and Books. I make way less than most teachers in my area and have to get by and save and make sacrifices when it comes to needs and wants. They should too.

In my opinion, it depends who and what your purchasing. When buying from a national company, your bargaining power is reduced because they are not dependent on your individual sale. However, the mom-and-pop store needs as many sales as possible to compete against giant corporations so they seemed to be more flexible.

Coming from a retail-sales background, the individuals that try to haggle a deal are looked on as quite pathetic, BUT nothing ventured, nothing gained.

“When a person is willing to take advantage of someone else’s lack of negotiating experience or play on someones emotions, that person should take a look in the mirror. Do I really feel good about trading my self respect and reputation to gain a few bucks on a transaction?”

This is a two way street. This is exactly how a lot of consumers feel when we are being pushed to buy a extended warranty.

I used to work retail (one of those fancy outdoor/backpacker stores that was privately owned) to help pay my way through grad school and no way was lowly me allowed to haggle. I would have gotten fired in a second if I dropped a price for someone without permission and if I did ask permission I’d be reprimanded for asking about something when I already knew store policy. I hated it when someone came in and said just ask, just ask…it made me sick to my stomach. It wasn’t going to work out and I’d be in trouble both ways.

I’d say give the person in a retail store a break. My only exception is if something is indeed damaged and it’s out on the floor and no one has noticed…but that’s it.

Conversely, it’s really irritating when an item is only a $1.00 (or less) and people still want to haggle. Then they justify it by making a negative comment about the item. (They actually do this on items at any price level). I think they just want to feel like they one-upped the sales person / establishment.

Great way to show these tips in action in real life! Haggling and bargaining is why rich people are rich and the others are…well..just others. I never pay the retail price for anything using the tips you mentioned above.

And for those of you who say a price is a price and just accept it…well, go to any other country in the world and it is EXPECTED to haggle. The prices on retail items are just a mind game anyway to get the consumer in the right mind set (why do you think everything ends in 99? Not for calculation purposes ya know).

I would disagree with that Military Wife. In our business we find the wealthy people are more likely to be respectful and the people that are trying to appear wealthy are the ones that try to haggle.
Also when people mention other countries were haggling is expected, do you ever stop to think about the economies in those countries? Has their haggling based economy really made Mexico into a world economic power? I realise that many of our dealings with other people involve negotiation. However, when someone is stooping to the tactics suggested by the writer they have traded their pride and self respect for a few dollars.

Cheapster Bob said: Call me a jerk if you want I’ll never see you again anyway.

Think about that for a minute. Do you like what a statement like that says about you?
In the long run respect for others pays off both materially and socially. True I may never see the person on the other side of the transaction again, however I need to look at myself in the mirror every day. Call me old fashion but it turns out the golden rule still works.

Of course it’s important to be respectful in social and commercial interactions. But if somebody has something that you want for a price that you are unwilling to pay, how is the seller going to know unless you say something about it?

You seem to be approaching this from the position that the seller is highly informed about what they’re selling, whereas the buyer is totally ignorant and has no concern for whether the seller makes a decent profit. Certainly, there are people who are uninformed about what they’re trying to buy. But effective negotiators understand that one-sided deals tend to be insulting to the other party.

I’m sorry that you take it personally that someone is unwilling to pay what you have requested for your business, but you seem to harbor an unreasonable amount of resentment to your potential customers. It’s rather natural for people to put their own interests first, and if you resent that, I imagine that selling things has to be tremendously stressful for you.

Please, haggle over everything. Haggling is the cornerstone of everyman capitalism. A dollar or two may not mean much to one person but it could mean the difference between eating a meal or skipping a meal for someone else. Not all Americans are made of money. If you are a seller and you are uncomfortable with haggling then you don’t have to sell. If you are a seller, you know how much you can sell for. And if you are an employee you should know what your company’s policies are in relation to discounts and the like. Yes i understand that some people suck but if you think that haggling is the worst, please keep in mind that every thing that you see and touch has been haggled over. Do you think that builders buy lumber at retail price? Does Walmart, Best Buy, Target….insert you favorite retail establishment here…pay retail for the products they sell? No, they haggle over the price or cost of materials. If they cannot reach a purchase price that will net them a profit on resale, they will haggle for a lower production price point, find a different vendor or they won’t carry it at all. They haggle, you SHOULD haggle too.

Perplexed, Nah, not personal. I just cant believe that I found someone on the internet that is wrong
Actually, I enjoy the negotiation process in settings were it is appropriate. My one business is a real estate brokerage and obviously in real estate haggling is completely normal and appropriate. However, in my other business, a small lawn furniture company, I don’t feel it is appropriate. It is not that the buyer is uninformed, but rather that the we do not have a mechanism to deal with the transaction as a negotiation. If We were going to set up for a haggling style of transaction we would need to charge more because 1. we would need a more highly trained staff (no more summer high school kids working the register) 2. We would need to allow for more time with each customer (this would ad to our labor cost)
In the big picture haggling is a more expensive way of doing business then our current system. Again i say look at the countries with haggling as an accepted part of their economy.
Good conversation everyone.

Eric,
I am real consistent that way. If I come into your shop and look for superficial blemishes, or if I ever try intimidate a 17 year old clerk into giving me 5 bucks of off a item in a retail setting, i would expect to be referred to as a jerk.
i understand your point though, jerk may have been a strong word for the situation.

With car purchases at a dealer, I would encourage people to negotiate a cash price first (and be prepared to pay it). Once you reach the final price, ask them if they would make more on the deal if you financed it. They would.

Position yourself as doing the salesperson a favor for them by financing, but you’re not sure you want to go through the hassle. Ask them to approximate how much they bring in on a financing deal. Offer to split half the financing kick-back by lowering the price of the car (as long as they can match or beat your terms). That’s a win-win.

Even if you want to pay cash, most car financing does not have a pre-payment penalty (check to be sure of course). The only thing this costs is time and a credit hit.

Jason, The wholesale b2b situations you are referring to are completely different than a retail situation. If we as a society are move to a model where haggling is to be the accepted norm in the retail environment, we will also be moving into an ere where on average we pay more for our purchases. Haggling is an inefficient and expensive way of doing business. In a marketplace like Mexico or other non-developed countries where labor is not a big factor haggling may make sense, but not here in the States.

In smaller retail establishments you can often get a good deal if you pay cash up front, no receipts.

You’ll often give up any return policy by doing this but for reliable products I often use this to successfully save an extra 5-15%, especially if you are dealing directly with the proprietor.

They save the tax and pass it on to you. Win-Win

The power of cash also works with Garage sales and flea markets too, but in a different way. Pulling the cash out and holding it in your hand can sometimes be the final straw on a deal. Make sure that in their mind they are already spending your money.

Dear Friends, Thank you for all the thought provoking comments! The tip on cash is most important! ALWAYS HAVE CASH AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SMALL BILLS AND CHANGE SO YOU CAN OFFER THE EXACT AMOUNT YOU WISH TO PAY. I haggle on everything. If a clerk does not have the ability to discount, I thank him and ask for the manager. I have haggled over the cost of my loved ones’ funerals, this being an area where the sellers have the public at a distinct disadvantage and a STAGGERLINGLY LARGE markup! ALWAYS OFFER TO HAGGLE! The worst that can happen is that the seller refuses. Eric says “Haggling is third world” (#36)? Not so! DONALD TRUMP IS MY IDOL, HE HAGGLES OVER EVERYTHING! WAL-MART HAGGLES WITH EVERY SUPPLIER, KNOWING THAT TO DRIVE A GOOD DEAL IS TO MAKE BUSINESS BETTER FOR WAL-MART. I once had 11 furnaces which needed to be cleaned and serviced at one time (don’t ask!). I got the price per furnace from the company, and offered to let them service eleven furnaces for the price of ten, THEY AGREED IN A FLASH TO GET SUCH A BIG AMOUNT OF WORK. I haggle with credit card companies (I pay my balance in full each month!) Recently my frequent flyer credit card was about to start the second year, the first year had been fee free and came with 15,000 bonus miles. I called the credit card company and the representative was unable to drop the $75. charge. I thanked her profusely for her kind help and professionalism, and asked if perhaps her supervisor could help me since the company was so short sided as to not give the rep. more discretion with this. THE SUPERVISOR GAVE ME ANOTHER YEAR FOR FREE, SAVING ME $75, THROUGH A FEW MINUTES OF HAGGLING. I called another credit card company when I missed a payment date by one day and was charged $1.75 interest for the modest balance. I was cheery, up beat, friendly while pointing out how enthusiastic I was about their company and what a good customer I was. You guessed it, I haggled away that $1.75!!! Dorothy #14 thinks that good buyer / bad buyer is unethical and sleazy, I disagree. What Dorothy champions is what all stores and sellers would like to do: INTIMIDATE BUYERS INTO NOT HAGGLING, TO PAY FULL HIGH RETAIL EVERY TIME SO THEIR PROFIT IS HIGHER. That’s OK for Dorothy, but not for me! I haggle in foreign countries where I don’t speak the language. I buy antiques and Schutzen (German shooting) medals across Europe. I carry a scratch pad. Written on it is “Euros?” When I see something I like, I show the word, and hand the pad and pen to the seller. The sellers writes a number. I read it, and cross it out, write a different figure. I keep smiling, and many people with whom I deal think that I am physically UNABLE to speak. We haggle and I buy a lot of merchandise for dirt cheap prices overseas, without speaking the languages. Eric #36 is missing out on many good deals and wasting a lot of his money. That’s his perogative and I support his idea FOR HIM, because that’s his opinion. REMEMBER FRIENDS, NO ONE IS FORCED TO SELL TO YOU FOR A LOWER PRICE, THEY DO IT BECAUSE YOUR MONEY, AND THE TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP OF THE ITEM FROM THEM TO YOU, IS MORE APPEALING THAN KEEPING THE ITEM AND HOPING FOR ANOTHER BUYER. When I sell, I’m NEVER insulted by an offer. An offer shows INTEREST, and in today’s economy that’s a wonderful thing. An offer is the opening gambit in a transaction that’s going to get each side what it wants. PS, Anyone with German shooting medals or Schutzen items to sell, CONTACT ME AND WE’LL HAGGLE!

Absolutely agree with you. Haggling, aka price discovery, is what makes a free market. People seem to forget that both buyers and sellers set the price; its not carved in stone. Look at the stock market, the value of any security fluctuates with each passing second. I say put out your bid and find any takers. If no bids, you might want to up your price, if you get lots of offers, then consider lowering your bid. This is capitalism folks.

I did my initial search for a new van on the internet. I emailed, “I’m in the market for a new Chrysler mini van, it must be 6 cyl, have AC, a radio and size XXX wheels. I don’t care about the color, I don’t need any other options, what’s the cheapest price you can get me?” And then I sat back and got prices which ranged from $19,500 to $26,000. I visited the three cheapest dealers, and the two higher of these did not really have the vehicle which they claimed to have, they lied to get me in the door. The dealer who quoted the cheapest price had a van. I haggled, and got an excellent price in writing. Next day I retured with male friend who was my closer. He got another thousand dollars off because I agreed to finance 75% of the vehicle, after my friend and I went over the contract with a fine tooth comb and found that there was NO PREPAYMENT PENALTY FOR THE LOAN. I paid the down payment with my credit card harvesting frequent flyer miles, and took possession of the van. At home with my new vehicle, I did an online transfer to pay off the credi card deposit on the van immediately. I made one loan payment payment on the van, and then paid off the loan in full from my savings (I have savings because I haggle on everything!) before the second payment was due. By agreeing to finance the vehicle, and keeping the loan for a month, I got that last $1,000. discount. This was not unscrupulous or sleazy, this was according to the rules of the contract drafted by the car company’s battery of high priced lawyers. I had planned to buy a roof rack from the dealer, BUT THE VAN THEY SOLD ME HAD A ROOF RACK ALREADY, a savings of over $200. additional dollars! I love my van!

Comment #40 asked about the cheap price of the house. THIS WAS MY FIRST EVER PURCHASE OF INVESTMENT REAL ESTATE, I’ve bought and sold many houses since. It must have been 30 years ago, and the house was a small one in the flood zone. When renting out the house I referred to the flooding as “occasional river view on all four sides” and talked about the benefits of the flooding: party atmosphere, people canoing between houses to visit, not having to go to work but getting paid by the boss because he knew you were stranded by water, and the opportunity to be interviewqed on local tv and become a minor celebrity by doing so. We did a quick rehab of the house, rented it to one lovely tenant for five years. The rent covered the loan payment, insurance and taxes. I sold the house after five years the very first day it was on on the market for $85,000. without negotiating a penny on the selling price!
And for the person who asked about the man beating his wife, I knew it was going to happen because the real estate agent told me it happened EVERY TIME she showed the house. No, it was not my business to call the police about an adult woman who was an enabler, it was my business to haggle to get a good price on the property, while making the seller, the real estate agent, and myself very happy.

The retail workers who are so scared of haggling should realize three things:

1. Your boss, or his boss, or his boss’s boss, etc, at some point, haggle for every item sold in your store.

2. If you are worried about getting fired because a customer wanted to haggle, your manager really sucks. There ARE better managers out there.

3. If you are towing the corporate line about not haggling to the point where you’re trying to guilt-trip anonymous blog readers… you are being heavily exploited by the company you work for and apparently don’t even realize it. They are using you as an innocent face to make higher profits.

For all those people that complain about retail hagglers, how about this, get a job where you dont have to sell. I worked retail before and as a lowly floor person i couldnt haggle, so i told people so and directed them to a manager who can make that call. But I should spend extra money because you dont want to deal with me? What if car dealers and real estate agents started doing the same, you would be complaining. I’m sorry but I know retail chains have a HUGE mark-up and most stores (i worked for LNT) has 20% off your order coupons floating around anyway to give to customers for that very purpose. Not to mention the fact that all mark-ups include what 2-3% for the credit card companies so if you pay cash your getting screwed. I work hard for my money and I’m not about to throw it away at the risk of someone thinking Im a ‘jerk’ for not wanting to pay a 30% markup
I just bought a new house and I plan on going into a store and saying im buying a washer,dryer, oven, dishwasher etc and you can damn well bet Im asking for money off.

I haggle if I feel there’s a chance I can get a better deal. And, as a retailer (cigars) I have some people try to haggle with me. I will offer a discount if the customer buys 20 cigars, but not on less. I’ll give them 10% off.

Military, fire and police automatically get 10% off at my shop as a courtesy.

I’ll also come close or match prices for my regulars that can show me a lower price from a competitor IF I can still make some money on the sale, but never for just one or two of something.

I have to say, I’m not interested in haggling. It’s a huge quality-of-life hit if I have to haggle. I want the price in the store to be real, and I don’t want to have to waste time to get the best deal. I also don’t want to pay more because prices are marked up to compensate for the expected haggling.

I essentially don’t buy cars from dealers because I don’t like to haggle. It’s all about the private-party second-hand market for me. If I am buying something second-hand and get the feeling that the person is expecting haggling and I could get a better price by talking more, I will usually back out entirely – NOT try and get that lower price. I am really bad at those kinds of psychological games, and willingness to haggle is, IME, a sign of an unfair deal. Whenever I haggle, I feel bad about the purchasing experience and the thing I bought because I had to play a game with a “winner” and a “loser” to get it.

I’m with Shannon: “Haggling is an inefficient and expensive way of doing business.” If it’s a matter of agreeing on a fair price because one party isn’t sure, that’s different. If the situation is a clear win-win (“I have to buy five appliances and don’t really want to shop around and get them at different stores to get the best price. You give me 10% off, and I’ll buy them all here and save some time”), that’s fine. But too often, haggling seems “us vs. them”, and I just don’t do that.

I too, find a fascination in haggling however, as many have stated there are limits. Going to Kate’s story, one thing I usually try to do is ask the sales boy (as it always seems to be) if he can give me a better price, not in those words exactly as I try to haggling him, but if I feel he is un-comfortable with the transaction in progress I ask him if I would be able to speak with his manager while he stays right there by me as well. I then tell the manager what a great helper said sales biy is and go on with try to get an even lower price from the manager, thus not risking the nice sales boys job and letting the manager make the call. Very seldom have I found that the manager will get the boot because of lowering the price, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen. I’ve used this tactic multiple times in(do I dear lower myself to say this
0 best buy, on the “Dent and Scratch” items or the open box items. I’ve only done it on small items such as mp3 players, portable cd players and several other things that are still under the $100 bracket. I still haven’t talked myself into taking in $200 cash and trying to get an amazing deal on a home theatre system, If anyone has a good idea on how to do that, I would be greatly appreciated, also, I am still fairly young and get treated as such, something about being under 21 seems to get you treated as if you are completely in competent. Thanks though

I work for a very small business. Our prices are high because the quality of our product is high, and, thus, our production costs are high. Our clients are wealthy and there is nothing more insulting or upsetting than when they try to haggle over a price. Our prices are set for a reason: they incorporate the cost of our production and the best way we can make a profit. When a client haggles over a price at a small business, the intention is very direct: the client is trying to take money away from us. When the business only employs five people, the “us” is extremely personal. This can easily translate into a worth issue. It very often feels as though the client does not believe we deserve to be paid the wages we require to live. In our case, their wealth just adds insult to injury.
I honestly believe haggling is the most tacky, tasteless thing a person can possibly do unless you are in a situation where prices are fixed high because negotiation is expected (like real estate or car purchases). Otherwise, the fastest way to lose the respect of anyone at a business is by following these disgusting, shameless practices. Even if you succeed in getting something with a discount, the next time you go in to that establishment, expect to be treated like a less valuable customer and an irritation, because that’s what you are.

I love a good deal as much as the next guy, but in most retail situations I don’t haggle. At least not in the traditional sense.
My version of haggling? “Oh, you’re selling item X for $this much? I can buy that 20% cheaper here. So long.”

I hear a lot of good reasons for haggling in the kind of capitalist economy we enjoy in the US, but the means to those ends (haggling) shouldn’t be the way. It’s competitive shopping. It doesn’t take much effort, and it’s a whole lot more satisfying than haggling. I check prices online at several retailers, find the cheapest price (usually by ordering online) and that’s how I stick it to those corporate suites who hike up prices and prey on unsuspecting consumers by shopping somewhere else. That’s the real catalyst for change.

@48
I agree that small businesses are generally more expensive for product, but they often give better services than the big box stores. the Big box stores receive an MSRP. Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price, this obviously is a suggestion. Its a value at which the manufacturer will make profit at a value they think you’ll pay. A good example is video game console sales. The PS3 is well below manufacturing costs but since people arent willing to pay 800$ for a gaming console they sell it for 500$ and make up money in other areas. Do you think the price they suggest really represents the actual value of that item? Do you think it represents the costs to harvest and move the materials they are selling. Everywhere theres a middleman and at every point the seller is making a profit.

If i can get something at a reasonable price when the seller is making a profit (if i haggle or not) its a win-win situation.

Dear Shanti, # 47, Thank you for the lovely compliments! Brief pause for me to simper, bridle and blush with pleasure at your enthusiasm for my ideas! I’m incredibly FLATTERED! OK, that’s done. I’m fascinated by comments like “I honestly believe haggling is the most tacky, tasteless thing a person can possibly do unless you are in a situation where prices are fixed high because negotiation is expected (like real estate or car purchases)…… the fastest way to lose the respect of anyone at a business is by following these disgusting, shameless practices.” For starters, the “respect” of a business whose ENTIRE SURVIVAL DEPENDS on taking money from customers, is not “respect” which interests me. This “respect” means the seller does not want to negotiate a better deal for me, he wants to set the terms and dictate his profit to me. NO ONE HAS TO NEGOTIATE, ANYONE CAN STICK TO THE PRICE THEY HAVE SET. Negotiation takes place when the buyer makes an offer and the seller counter offers, this may be repeated several times, and in my case often includes amusing dramatic behavior and funny comments. AT THE END, THE SELLER SELLS FOR A PRICE TO WHICH HE HAS AGREED. I like to leave ’em laughing and clutching my cash! If a seller doesn’t want to negotiate / haggle / horse trade / hondle, he loses the opportunity to take my money. I never have hard feelings about a person who won’t negotiate, or about a person who negotiates with me but we can not agree and the deal is not done. I leave them with a smile, my money intact, and tell them “maybe next time.” A person or business which does not negotiate price is a person or a business which will either fail financially or not achieve full financial potential. As they used to say on Orchard St., “You can’t go broke taking a profit.”
THANK YOU ALL WHO HAVE READ MY IDEAS AND COMMENTED, I love you all for taking the time and energy out of your busy day to write your thoughts!!!!! Happy Haggling!

I wish that I had the guts to haggle for a better price on things outside of a garage sale. I once saw an episode of What not to Wear on TLC where a lady haggled for two pairs of shoes at a designer show store in NYC. The show hosts were mortified, but the woman did end up getting what she wanted!

She very politely asked to see the manager and told him that she was in love with both pairs of shoes, but didn’t feel like she could pay for both at full price. She then told him that he would knock off X amount she would take both. The manager thought about it for a while and then told her that he would do it for her.

I wish I could remember how much she got knocked off the price. But it is inspiring. If NYC shoe stores are willing to come down on the price of designer shoes, then I’m sure it’s possible to talk anyone down.

Dear Beth, You’ve taken the first step to a lifetime of getting more stuff for less money by your decision to haggle. EVERY PENNY YOU GET OFF A PRICE IS EXTRA MONEY IN YOUR POCKET, TAX FREE. To spend a dollar you have to earn about $1.40. If you don’t spend an extra dolla because you haggled it off the price, you are actually $1.40 in pre tax dollars ahead! Remember, the worst the person can say is “NO.” Usually they make a counter offer, you take it or counter again. The seller gets your money and you get what you want at a good price. Haggling’s fun! Now maybe you won’t get to the point at which I am, where if the price is high I clutch my chest and pretend to be having a heart attack, WHICH DOES GET THE FULL ATTENTION OF THE SELLER so that I can begin the haggle. Next time you go to buy something, ASK IF THEY CAN DO BETTER ON THE PRICE. That lady on national TV who got two pairs of designer shoes at a great discount is your idol! YOU CAN DO IT TOO! People want your money and they DON’T want to keep the things they are selling. Anyone who makes me an offer is a potential customer if I am selling. As a seller I’m NEVER insulted by an offer which to me shows interest. As a SELLER it is my job to extract as much money from the customer as possible in exchange for my article. It is also my job as a SELLER to see that no customer who has expressed interest goes away with his money and without my item. REMEMBER ORCHARD STREET, “You can’t go broke takign a profit!” If the produce at the grocery store looks ratty but I need it today and am going to cut it up in bits, I’ve been known to have a discussion with the produce manager and get a better price. He’s moved some non perfect goods which they will otherwise have to toss in the trash at the end of the day and I have my fruit for fruit salad at a cheap price. I’m an incorrigible haggler and proud of it.

Dear Erik, You’re welcomed to your point of view, this is not an attempt to change your way of doing business. When dealing with suppliers if your company NEVER asks for a discount for cash, a discount for buying large quantity, a discount for immediate payment, a discount for being a long term customer, then the company management is not optimizing profit and is doing a disservice to stock holders or the owner. Haggling isn’t confined to the third world. Donald Trump does it, Mayor Mike haggles with the unions of NYC over money all the time, Bush haggles with Congress, Wal-Mart haggles with all it’s suppliers to get a better deal, which is appreciated by Wal-Mart’s stockholders, and all the Wal-Mart customers who happen to be mostly poor or middle class people struggling to make ends meet. Divorce lawyers haggle over money on behalf of clients. Insurance companies haggle over claims. Haggling enables me to live very well and to visit interesting third, second and first world countries because I save money through haggling. Erik, your company doesn’t have to haggle. They can “Just say no.” But then they don’t get better deals on supplies, and they don’t get my trade. Entitlement issues are GOVERNMENT WELFARE. Haggling is business, “Do you want my trade/money? Then you must throw in ……” This isn’t entitlement, it’s good business. This column is for the exchange of ideas. I listen to yours, and you to mine. Other readers, who have wanted to haggle, and seen people haggle on national TV for designer shoes, can get the courage to smile and say, “I like these very much, can you do any better on the price?” Erik, your company can continue it’s “no haggling” practice, and I wish them success. The nice thing about haggling is that it’s an optional behavior, a person can offer to haggle, and have the offer accepted, or not haggle and pay full retail. daylilydiva

I HAGGLE EVERYWERE, BUT YOU KNOW…. haggling doesnt always involve attacking someone for a better price,

I spend my money were i know i am respected for being a good customer, they know i want the best prices and they will give me a lower price often without asking.

for instance i had a $900 car service dropped to $400 recently…… the reason is because the owner of the shop knew that i only used him for all my services(because he is fair, honest and best prices and top service)

so when i had to get my car fixed he immediately had me go to another shop to get an extimate, then told me he would do it for $500 less, which i believe was at or a smiggen above parts cost

you see somethimes it pays to spend a tad more to patronize someone, when an oil change is $5 less somewere else i still go to him, i bring him lunch and i ask about his family, i leave him with a handshake and the words ” i appreciate all you do for me and let me know if i can ever do anything for you”

when it comes time for a major repair i am always rewarded

now i am not saying that i to those things to “grease the wheel” as my prime motive… i really do appreciate all he does

here’s one big tip and always remember this>>>> no matter where you are, even if prices are plastered infront of your face always ask ” how much do i owe you ” rathere than just offering up the money, give the seller or serviceman a little air to give you a discount out of appreciation, at this point he/she knows that you are content to buy but if you have respected and treated this person well when you ask “how much do i owe you” often the total you will receive will be less

remember always to ask “how much do i owe you” never just hand up the money

also, do not take your money out of your pockets untill you are given your total, and never seem to anxious to buy>> don’t give the seller the idea that his price is way too good or that you have enought money to buy it at any cost

i added this to my last comment but i want it to be alone as it is important!!

remember these words: “how much do i owe you” and use them always!

if you treat the person with respect and honor, kindness and pleasure when at a garage sale, non-national service center, even restaurants and you aks “how much do i owe you” it give the other person a chance to consider how you treated them and what leeway they can give you,

remember: if you are at a restaurant and your server gives you a discount or something has not been added to your bill, never mention it to the server, they are aware and just thank them and let them know you appreciate it with a little more added to the tip! most servers get a 50% discount each day for a meal but often don’t use it, if you can manage to get this from a server, never mention it to them as you may get them in trouble, just leave them an addiotional %10 tip and the next time you visit request to sit in his/her section: no words are needed, they will know why and will understand the reason for the extra tip as it was their reason to give you a discount

Dear Friends, “haggling doesnt always involve attacking someone for a better price,” Goodness, attacking someone? My dear you’ve sadly confused me with the street thug who’s got out his knife and is demanding your wallet or else! The point of my story about buying the house was that I didn’t “attack someone for a better price.” If you reread that part you will see that OTHERS, for 3 1/2 years, had attacked the woman (she felt) by pointing out the shortcomings of the property. I, in my charming way, told her what I liked ABOUT THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS WHY SHE GAVE ME SUCH A SMASHINGLY GOOD DEAL! When I haggle / negotiate / hondle / bargain / wheel and deal, I’m ALWAYS upbeat, happy, cheerful, joking. Dealing with me is fun and the seller can make a sale! If the person doesn’t want to haggle, I tuck my cash back in my pocket and move on to make a deal elsewhere. NO ONE HAS TO HAGGLE. It depends on whether the seller wants to sell and to move more, not less, merch. Just returned from one week spent visiting flea markets in northern Germany, two, three or four a day. Without speaking German, but using my trusty pad and pen, I bargained my way to two large suitcases full of merchandise at rock bottom prices. Far as I could tell all the German sellers were pleased to get my Euros and thrilled to have sold their Schutzen items, even though in no case did I ever pay the initial asking price. Some of them invited me to their homes to buy MORE stuff.

You could purchase a brand new Mercedes Benz, bring it to a garage sale, put a for sale sign on it that reads “For Sale BRAND NEW MERCEDES $1.00-FIRM. You would still have people saying TOO MUCH, I’ll Give You a quarter!!!! Garage sales are a waste of time. Put it out for junk trash day.

As someone who has worked in retail, I’d just like to give one piece of advice. By all means ask for a discount, point out a flaw or try and get something else thrown in. But if the cashier says “No”, “I’m afraid not” or “It’s store policy not to reduce prices”, DON’T KEEP ASKING. Don’t even stand there and look at them expectantly. They cannot do anything for you and it’s unfair to keep nagging them for a discount. Accept their answer and either buy it at its real price or go away.

Haggling is already a skill itself, now if you throw in positive haggling, then you have a whole different class of negotiation. I must have to practice a lot to even haggle. I wish I can haggle at the bookstore for my college textbooks. Have you seen the price tag lately, it’s more expensive than the course tuition???

#51 said: “For starters, the “respect” of a business whose ENTIRE SURVIVAL DEPENDS on taking money from customers, is not “respect” which interests me.”

That statement describes every business, from a multinational conglomerate to a sole-proprietorship. Haggling is fine but the sentiment above shows that you’re not a person who has a firm grasp on the realities of commerce.

Your statement implies that businesses should be able to survive WITHOUT needing money from customers. I have no idea what fantasy world you live in but I’d love to hear how you expect that to happen. Apparently businesses (large and small) should bow to every whim of a haggler and not care about how they’re going to pay their own bills. After all, it’s “disrespectful” for a business to take money from customers.

It’s great to read your article with tips on haggling and negotiation but your “me, me, me, take every possible penny of profit from the seller” attitude is a little disturbing and, I feel, takes away from your overall.

I have some friends who own a small, family-owned store. It’s obvious by comparing their prices to the prices in similiar stores that the mark-up is very low, but people still ask for a discount. I think haggling is fine sometimes, but some people are just too cheap and too greedy. If you really feel you can’t afford to buy something without a “good customer’s discount” then you shouldn’t be shopping there to begin with.

I’m a little disturbed to see some of the comments making personal judgments about people who haggle. Frankly, there are a lot of things I would buy if they were priced better – but I don’t haggle and I don’t buy. I would have spent $5k at Circuit City this past year if their prices had been better – multiply me by the thousands of other buyers who WOULD have bought, but didn’t, and maybe Circuit City’s employees would still have jobs if us on-the-fence buyers had done a little haggling.

It’s not cheap, rude, entitled or anything else. I try very hard to align my dollars to my values in a way that maximizes my enjoyment of my income, while allowing savings and retirement funds. Filet mignon is well worth $16 a pound (to me); spinach, however, is not worth $7 pound (to me); a new laptop is worth between $500-$1k (to me) because my old one still works alright and I have other uses for my cash. As I hold out for a computer with the requisite features at a price that works for me, the stores are holding unsold laptops and paying interest on the loan they took out to buy the laptop, and they don’t have money to pay their employees. Does that really make me a better person than the one who walks into the store and haggles and actually makes a purchase?

Am I cheap and greedy? I don’t think so. I know what it took to earn my dollar, and I know that the prospects for me to replace that dollar are poor right now. If a business likes its merchandise more than it likes my cash, they can hold out in the hopes of finding a more willing buyer.

Part of the reason people in retail (or handmade art/craft sales) are so defencive about hagglers is because, as with most groups, the ones that most people see are the loud, obnoxious ones, not the nice, polite ones who conduct their business quietly. For every person respectfully haggling over prices and getting a great deal, there are a dozen more throwing an absolute fit to get a cheaper price.

That said, haggling itself is an art, and one I wish I was better at. However, my years in retail putting myself through school rather tainted my views of haggling. I certainly see it’s place, but it’s hard not to compare myself to the sort of people who give true hagglers a bad name. True haggling, as the pro-hagglers in this thread have pointed out, is usually a win/win scenario.

To the people berating sales staff for having jobs where they do not how the power to negotiate with the customer, and then turning around and defending haggling because “some people need to save every cent they can”, you might want to rethink your arguments because they contradict each other. Not everyone can afford to quit their retail job, either.

Also, this really, really disturbs me:
“And for the person who asked about the man beating his wife, I knew it was going to happen because the real estate agent told me it happened EVERY TIME she showed the house. No, it was not my business to call the police about an adult woman who was an enabler, it was my business to haggle to get a good price on the property, while making the seller, the real estate agent, and myself very happy.”
In this kind of situation, this statement is just sick. It is certainly your business to call the police for domestic abuse. Even if it didn’t happen while you were there, call the cops and say the real estate agent mentioned that it happens. They will check it out. It absolutely disgusting to call the beaten person an enabler, and then go on to brag about how much of a discount you got on the house. One does not preclude the other. You can still haggle and get a great deal and get your warm fuzzies for doing so, and then you can go call the authorities and perform your basic human duty to help others in need.

People who love to haggle think it’s appropriate everywhere. It’s a power game to them. If those people would put half as much energy into the community as they do into “getting the best deal” our world would be a better place. When I used to work retail I had no problem with people asking for a discount but I really hated those people who kept asking after I said no. Those are the annoying ones!

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Comment

Name *

Email *

My name is J.D. Roth. I started Get Rich Slowly in 2006 to document my personal journey as I dug out of debt. Then I shared while I learned to save and invest. Twelve years later, I've managed to reach early retirement! I'm here to help you master your money — and your life. No scams. No gimmicks. Just smart money advice to help you get rich slowly. Read more.

General Disclaimer: Get Rich Slowly is an independent website managed by J.D. Roth, who is not a trained financial expert. His knowledge comes from the school of hard knocks. He does his best to provide accurate, useful info, but makes no guarantee that all readers will achieve the same level of success. If you have questions, consult a trained professional.

Advertising Disclosure: Some offers on this page may promote affiliates, which means GRS earns a commission if you purchase products or services through the links provided. All opinions expressed here are the author's and not of any other entity. The content at Get Rich Slowly has not been reviewed, approved, or endorsed by any entity mentioned at the site. For additional information, please review our full advertising disclosure.