When you hear the term 'black magick', do you automatically assume it is a negative practice, the 'Left Hand Path', and pictures of Aliester Crowley and Anton LeVay flash through your head?

I've conversed with quite a number of people who have practiced what is typically known as 'black magick' and, to be honest, it's not all that it's been hyped up to be. It doesn't necessarily suggest cursing people and Black Mass and so forth and so on. The practice of a darker brand of magick is just that... darker. Sometimes, especially in the modern Pagan community, we've fluff-bunnied the traditions. Everything is bright and happy and carefree. Even the holiday of Samhain is sometimes taken with a light heart, when it should be a time of respectful remorse.

Of course, I prefer the term Gothic Paganism, but what is your take on Black Magick?

I've come across a number of books in recent years that explore that very type of darker magic, ritual and worship that you describe. Not bought any yet as everytime I discover one, I don't have enough cash to buy it!

I think perhaps that modern Pagans are forgetting the balance. As a Pagan following a Celtic Path (as best as one can, given the way what little information has come down to us...), I understand this darker side. In Morrigan is one perfect example. She's a much darker Goddess than say, my own Matron Diety, Brighid (although Brighid has her own darkness as well...). But I respect her (you'd be a fool not too!). She embodies War, among other things, in several of her aspects, and yet also can be percieved as Fertility as well.

I think the Fluffy Bunny aspect of much of modern Wiccan and Neo-Paganism stems from an attempt to steer away from such backlash and stigma as say, Satanism and the perceptions that found solid root during the Burning Times.

I do an occassional glimpse into 'Black Magic', but do not yet have what I feel to be a firm understanding of it. But I see no reason why we should turn our backs on the darker aspects of our various Paths. It's all about balance and respect.

I kind of understand what you're saying---endless sweetness and light IME usually leads to the nastier side of human nature coming out in a backhanded way that can be much worse than when it is openly accepted...OTOH, I don't know what would be considered 'dark' in magick that isn't actually about hurting and cursing people. I guess some people might think it morbid that I've an interest in talking to( and sometimes make symbolic offerings to) certain dead people in a friendly way as though they were still alive, but that's all I can think of that I would want to do that might be considered dark and it doesn't seem so to me, so I'm not sure if that's the kind of thing you're talking about. Personally I'm not fond of the term Gothic Paganism as it implies an intrinsic connection between two sincerely important but unrelated aspects of my lifestyle. ( Well, the weird chronic synchronicity with Rozz makes a connection between the two, but that's just my personal thing, not a 'path' per se! )

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I've always been under the impression that 'black' magick is just a form of pure selfishness. You do magick simply to enhance your own life, REGARDLESS of the fact that it could and will harm others. Of course I don't hold selfishness, per se, as a bad thing, lol, just that it can IF one uses it despite knowing it will hurt others. Instead of dealing with the wrongs handed to one in a more circumvent way, people strike out in anger and hostility, and use revenge...and really the only person they are REALLY hurting is themselves.

As for the fluffy bunny approach to the more darker aspects of paganism, I do agree wtih ana. There are certain times that a somber tone is needed in order to show respect...although I won't rule out any opportunities to get free candy! ;D

Hey, I'm all FOR doing magick that is self-serving. As a matter of fact, there isn't much magick that is stronger and works better than that which you create for yourself for the reasons you most desire. And sometimes, consequences be damned, is my opinion. I gotta look out for me every once in a while.

Well, I look at it this way.... I may do a spell that seems selfish in nature, but my intention is not to harm others... it is simply selfishness that makes it "negative". Now, wether or not it actually DOES harm others is just a consequence of my actions, but my intentions were still about ME, and not to hurt others. I don't think hardships are visited upon people simply because they aim for something for themselves.

Plus, I had hardships LONG before I ever began doing spells of a darker nature. If I'm going to have hardships, at least I can occasionally make something happen for myself, others be damned, and say "So there!" lol.

Even something as simple as a basic money spell could be seen as dark magic. After all, one is doing the spell in order to attract more money to themselves. And yet that person means no harm to anyone else.

When I think of magic that's just plain bad, I think of working magic that will cause serious harm to an enemy. That's where I myself draw the line if I can help it. But doing things selfishly (as in...bringing energy/luck/love/money....whatever) to myself then I'll do it.