Has it been taken out of all schools? My son's school does not have it, but I know the schools in an adjacent county do have it.

And I agree with the 2 people above. NO. I don't get (and never have gotten) the whole theory that hurting someone was a good form of punishment/control.

As far as I can tell from my personal experience, hurting someone only causes fear, which does lead to compliance, but ZERO respect is earned. My mother used fear/pain as a weird form of control with me and my brother.

When my son was young, I was encouraged to slap his hand, etc...when he would bite or hit, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Considering that I am the one teaching him everything, what logic follows --I hit you, because you hit me, so you better not hit me anymore--seriously, its insane.

It must make one feel really powerful to have to resort to beating children. It is done mostly to put the fear of shame and discipline upon the people- that there is an authority that will see and punish your transgressions/sins, no matter what. Woooooooooooo.

Just like having a jealous vengeful god. It says that violence is OK as long as it has divine approval. Since god participates in mass murder as well, we can even go to war. Another example of the cognitive dissonance that traditional religious teaching spawned, that is so out of touch with reality.

_________________Completely sane world
madness the only freedom

An ability to see both sides of a question
one of the marks of a mature mind

I am having a very very bad year. I have unruly kids who do not bring even a pencil to class. I walked into my room and caught two boys going through my desk. If I give them detention, they do not show up. If I send them to the principal she gives them a hug and a sucker and tells then not to do it again.

I am supposed to be out in the hall on hall duty, so they destroy my room. If I stay in my room the shove each other into lockers, get into fights, throw things, destroy lockers, and someone gets hurt out in the hall.

Since the implementation of "no child left behind" schools will not suspend kids (maybe if they killed someone they would) but is that what it is going to take? What can we do to them that they fear? Nothing.

I can't teach. We have a Bozo for a superintendent. Everything is the teacher's fault. Had we been in the room or out in the hall none of this would have happened. I am sick to death of it all. I can't afford to go to another district because I have too many years of experience and they want to hire young people right out of college who are cheap. The young ones don't stay - they get out while they can, but the problems are growing into all schools. No discipline, no control.

I remember when I was in school. If someone was really unruly they got a paddling. It was humiliating and they bad behavior stopped. When my kids were in school the district still had paddling in the 80's. If my kids acted up I EXPECTED there to be consequences and then they would have gotten it again at home. Needless to say, my kids were never paddled. They knew better.

Teachers don't do the spanking when they are angry. The principal does it after the child has been to the office so many times and it is a last resort. We have a student who get written up and sent to the principal's office EVERY period EVERYDAY. Nothing is ever done except detention and Thursday school. Big deal. Obviously it ISN"T working.

I was curious because parents who would allow the principal to discipline their kids rarely even have bad kids who need any severe discipline. The parents who don't want you to do anything to their kids are usually the ones who NEED it the most.

I can't imagine how stressful it must be to be a teacher. ..I was quite a brat all through high school, and definutely wouldn't want to put up with a kid that made as much trouble as I did. Plus, I'm not very fond of kids. Good, sweet kids are ok, but just ok. LOL
I'm sure it's unbelievable stressful and frustrating trying to teach and make a difference in children's lives, and not being shown any respect. So, I am empathetic towards your situation.
It sounds like you need to have a sit down with your school's principal. If she's praising bad behavior, what exactly is it that she's wanting you to do in the classroom?
..btw, what grade do you teach?..sounds like junior high.

Don't let your frustrations get the best of you though. You may want to beat the shit out of these kids...literally....but I'm pretty sure that you really don't want that. You're just frustrated.

Hitting a child is wrong. Some people are very adamant in the idea that hitting women is wrong because they're women: they're small and weak. I don't agree with that one exactly like that (I'll explain if you wish), but children are smaller and weaker. Correcting bad behavior by hurting them mentally and physically is wrong. Humiliating them in front of their friends and peers is wrong. Giving another adult, who has no emotional connection to your child, the right to hit them, is wrong.
IMO

I think NYG brings up a good point:

Quote:

Last thing I want is a teachers rage to be taken out on kids.

Isn't that what you're kind of admitting to? Frustration?....Anger?.......Resentment?..............Rage?

I think it's especially hard for people who were raised with physical abuse to let go of the idea.

I was raised with it. ..And I wouldn't wish a belt on anyone else. A belt, a book, a paddle, or a hand.

_________________"I may detest what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

Yes it is middle school. It would not be my rage taken out on the student.. Here is an example:

I have this one student. I have called home 6 times. Parents did not show for conference.

1. He has stolen money out of my desk.
2. He has hit other students in my class (in the face).
3. He threw pencils into (till they stuck) the ceiling tiles.
4. Threw a chair out into the hall (he was not angry, just "playin' around) and another student fell over the chair because she did not see it coming.
5. Called me stupid.
6. Called a girl a fat cow.
7. Never brings anything to class like a book, paper, or penceil and he has no intention of doing anything the class is asked to do.
8. Called his mom a "fat bitch" when talking to another student.
9. Pulled the bathroom sink off of the wall while skipping my class.
10. Stopped up the toilet in the boys room and kept flushing until it flooded into the hall.
11. Opened my window and called a man a niggar across the street. (this kid is black) go figure. No it wasn't nigga, either.

There are more things but these are the ones I can remember right now. I need my log book which is at school.

I am responsible for him to "pass" the state test. He won't because he will probably skip the day of the test, or deliberately miss many of the questions, or get thrown out of class that day. Yet his name is attached to ME for the reading protion of the test. He is one of my "percents".

Not only that, I am responsible for all the other students in the class with him. He is constantly entertaining them. I have to throw him out in order to get anything done.

He has had at least 10 after school detention (which he skips).
3 Thursday schools (which are longer detentions).
2 full days if ISS (IN school suspensions)
3 full days of A+ which is a program where students are isolated from the rest of the student body and works with a teacher one-on-one.

What is left besides suspension (which we are "leaving him behind") or a good old fashioned ass busting?

I say humiliate him like he humiliates other students. The only thing that would be hurt is his pride. He would no longer be "king of the mountain". He would find out there are consequences. He is going to wind up in prison if we don't find something he fears.

His mother is in denial. He is very spoiled. He wears nice clothes and is well fed. He is desperate for someone to do something. He is screaming for help.

Good students are suffering. They are begging for something to be done. They are sick of him and others. They are sick of noisy classrooms where they can't hear themselves think. They are sick of walking in a hall where they may get shoved into a locker, tripped, something thrown at them, hit, anything is possible.

And this is only ONE student. There are plenty more.

We have talked to the principal. She is in way over her head. She taught ONE year. Third grade. She is a pet of the superintendent and she can do no wrong. For the first time in 18 years I fear for my safety.

Teachers do not spank. It is in the list of consequences and comes after many other things have been tried. Usually an administrator or a coach administers the paddling with the parent present or other wittnesses. See, you are telling your age by assuming a teacher would take their rage out on a kid. Teachers don't do the paddling. It couldn't be for just one thing. It would be after many things.

Paddling has been gone from some schools for so long people have forgotten that it was a very effective deterent to bad behavior. It usually only took one spanking.

Can't expel unless he kills sombody. Atleast not in our district. Very few do anymore (except the private schools). They can get rid of their problems.

Teachers do not spank. It is in the list of consequences and comes after many other things have been tried. Usually an administrator or a coach administers the paddling with the parent present or other wittnesses. See, you are telling your age by assuming a teacher would take their rage out on a kid. Teachers don't do the paddling. It couldn't be for just one thing. It would be after many things.

Ok, so the administrator does the spanking. They're just as likely to get frustrated, angry, and resentful towards bad behaving kids, too.

How exactly am I telling my age? By assuming people would take out their rage on kids if they're legally allowed to hit them? That's not unreasonable. It's very likely. ...especially in the circumstances you're saying.."after many things." Kids' bad behavior breeds frustration upon adults, and in turn anger. It's bound to get out of control.

Do you believe in hitting women? A lot of people don't because, like I said earlier, they're smaller and weaker. They're women!
How can it be any different, if not way more important, to have the same respect for children?
You don't believe that teachers should be teaching kids about god in school, because it's not their place. How is it their place to hit another parent's child?

_________________"I may detest what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

Can't expel unless he kills sombody. Atleast not in our district. Very few do anymore (except the private schools). They can get rid of their problems.

Also, it sounds like it's your district's fault for your "very bad year", not the childrens. They're continuing to misbehave because they're being allowed to..not by you, but by the district.
I don't understand how any school could not expel a kid for stealing the teacher's money, hitting students, throwing chairs (weapons!), saying racial slurs, intentionally clogging toilets, and ripping a sink out of the wall.
It's ludicrous.

_________________"I may detest what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

Well with your way of thinking then lets just do nothing. Sometimes a consequence has to hurt a little. When he winds up in prison because we didn't try something harsh like spanking (oh my) he can be someone's "girlfrind". That isn't as bad as spanking.

Or course I don't believe in hitting women. I don't normally condone hitting kids. I spanked my own kids when they were young (like once). They are great adults who spank their own kids (like once). If used appropriately, one doesn't have to do it more than a couple of times.

There is a huge difference between "hitting" someone and bending a child over and smacking their butt. Didn't you ever get your butt smacked? Sounds like you didn't.