I put exactly the same effort into obtaining a legendary like you. So yes, we raidfinder players will also get a legendary orange weapon (or whatever it is); exactly the same reward.

also I bet (and hope) that the siege of orgrimmar legendary quests won't be rng but the same as with Dragonwrath: e.g collect 250 essences from fallen bosses.....that would perfectly make sense (also after that huge rnjesus in the previous parts)

I doubt that last part. Because LFR has a chance to give anyone in the raid any loot, while in normal/heroic mode they would have to assign who gets the essences this week. While I think all raids should get it, that would be a pretty stupid bias towards LFR and it's loot set up.

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 08:42 PM ----------

Originally Posted by orderschvank

this will probably sound stupid to most of you

but it should be a given that people who acquire legendaries in LFR should take much longer than people who run normals or even heroics.

stupid how through pure RNG, someone who does LFR can get things before someone who clears heroics

Doesn't someone who clears heroics have a better chance? They can still run LFR to get the items, and then run heroic afterwards. That's double the opportunity.

Normal mode is only trivially more difficult than LFR. It requires a single raid leader that knows how to make proper assignments - beyond that, it's just a question of time management.

If it's a question of having to "grind" in normal mode instead of LFR, that creates a problem for even heroic raiders, since LFR is usually the way they fill in bosses they don't do during their progression schedule (either due to extending lockouts, the raid skipping that boss, sitting for that boss due to comp, etc) - otherwise RNG demands that people fortunate enough to have a job that keeps them in for most/all bosses (e.g. tanks or raid leaders) have a better chance of getting legendary items than others.

If it's just a question of having to complete normal modes to "unlock" the item, then most would do so in PUGs after they finish grinding - others would buy their way in to a normal mode alt run clear (or just final boss kill if that's all you need) from top guilds on the server. Because frankly, after a month or so, people that are progressing through heroics quickly treat normal modes the same way most people treat LFR -- and taking 5 people that have no idea what they're doing won't stop us from killing the boss.

I realize the exclusivity of being a "real" raider is important to some people, but think it through logically. It's just not a good idea. Part of me would be happy if they did something like the Infusions on Shadowmourne and require they be done on heroic mode, because it would mean my guild would make a ton of money selling them. But would that be a good thing for the game?

The most legendary part of legendaries so far was always legendary battle/rager/qq for the order in which people will be geting them - since everyone wanted to be first and nobody wanted to finish/obtain them last

Haha, so so true.

Originally Posted by melodramocracy

Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

What do you think, will we have an orange-fest with every LFR-veteran running with a legendary soon? Or will they keep the legendary exclusive to normals/heroics?

They've already said the legendary line would be finishable in LFR. The problem that everyone thinks a bunch of people will be running around with it assume that everyone will actually finish the line.

Some are stuck at sigils and don't feel like running old content to get them.
Some are stuck on the BG's because they don't want to do them or keep losing.
Some are stuck on the Elite you have to kill in Krasarang because it takes effort to put together a group and/or realm is dead.
Some are stuck on Empires because the drop rate is low and they don't need to run ToT for any reason other than empires.
Some are stuck on Runes for same reason.

As you can see there are various reason why people won't finish as it's simply put, too much effort for them. Wait till after the first couple months before people complain about how many LFR people have it that wouldn't.

Most people who get it from LFR would have gotten it from normal anyway, it just finished there because they were running it first for an item while waiting till guild raid in the week.

I don't think the definition of what makes something legendary is its rarity. The last three expansions, Blizzard has chosen to mean a special reward that comes from a long, involved quest chain.

Considering the Mists legendary has required significantly more investment for significantly longer than any other one so far, I'd say the label is apt even for those who earned it running only LFR.

Uniqueness is a valuable commodities in MMOs, but it isn't the only things of value. If anything, I think the community places far too much emphasis on what others do and have.

I have to say that I disagree. Big part of legendary item was it's rarity. If everyone wields legendary weapon then it's not so legendary. They need to be time consuming and hard to obtain. If you wanted to get it from Illidan or Kil'jaiden you sure needed skill combined with luck.

I hope not. Legendary weapons are supposed to be hard to get and LFR is not hard by any means.

You seem to be confusing "Time Consuming" with "Hard". Every Legendary Quest up to our current one has had almost no difficult involved other than "You must kill the final boss of the raid to get X item".

Sulfuras? It wasn't hard, you just had to farm Golemagg and Ragnaros to get their two exclusive dropes until the cows came home?
Thunderfury? Kill Garr and Geddon until you had both bindings, than kill Ragnaros, then get a crap ton of Elementium out of BWL to summon a World Boss that was easy as hell to kill, even back then.
Atiesh? Difficult only because of you had to have already had AQ and Naxx on farm to make any real progress. The hardest part of the Legendary wasn't even in a raid, it was in a 5-man boss fight in Stratholme.

The BC Legendaries only required you to be able to kill Illidan and Kil'Jaeden, and pray to the RNG gods that the weapon dropped. If you were already farming those raids, you just had to play the waiting game. Thori'dal was only extremly rare to see because of how difficult Sunwell was when it was current.

Val'Anyr required you to do NOTHING special other than kill bosses on 25-man Ulduar to get the 30 fragments, and then kill Yogg-Saron with three keepers or less.
Shadowmourn... Well there's a reason people called it Wellfaremourne.

Dragonwrath was another thing similar to Val'Anyr, with the two hard parts of the quest being a solo-dungeon, and having to deal with that obnoxiously stupid "Kill these bosses in this annoying way" step. Everything else was an RNG grind.
And Fangs of the Father is almost identical to what we have now in MoP. The hardest part of this quest was the solo boss-fights. Nothing in the raid required you to do anything special other than pick pocket Hagara, than kill every boss ever until you had X number of RNG-based drops.

All of those have one or twp things in common: They're all time consuming, hand one or two steps that were difficult, but were solo-based. Everything in the Raids required very little finesse or skill to retrieve the Legendary Item. Nothing's changed between now and Sulfuras other than we can do the RNG-based segment in LFR.

Well there is going to be flex raids in 5.4, but if Blizzard still ends up doing the DS nerf where normal becomes a joke compared to LFR then I say players should at least have to jump in a PuG and run it out of LFR at least once. There is also going to be virtual realms so realm population should not be an excuse.

Overall though doing normal/heroic should get you your legendary notably faster. Players who cant full clear a raid should not be left behind those who do LFR as well.

They've already said the legendary line would be finishable in LFR. The problem that everyone thinks a bunch of people will be running around with it assume that everyone will actually finish the line.

Some are stuck at sigils and don't feel like running old content to get them.
Some are stuck on the BG's because they don't want to do them or keep losing.
Some are stuck on the Elite you have to kill in Krasarang because it takes effort to put together a group and/or realm is dead.
Some are stuck on Empires because the drop rate is low and they don't need to run ToT for any reason other than empires.
Some are stuck on Runes for same reason.

As you can see there are various reason why people won't finish as it's simply put, too much effort for them. Wait till after the first couple months before people complain about how many LFR people have it that wouldn't.

Most people who get it from LFR would have gotten it from normal anyway, it just finished there because they were running it first for an item while waiting till guild raid in the week.

I did get stuck on the BG's for a little while. Now I'm regretting it because I would probably have the cloak by now if I hadn't groused about it.

My favourite part is when people tell me legendary items are meant to be hard to get. Having witnessed several people being carried through the Illidan fight in BT just for the chance they were lucky enough that the RNG gods decided one of the glaives would drop.

No matter how many people have it, it is still a legendary. If it has the classification and the orange text and whatnot, it is a legendary. The MoP item will be the legendary with the most time investment of any legendary, taking literally the entire expansion to for the first people to get one.

I don't understand the problems people have with knowing others might have an item that is like theirs. Pixels are pixels. It doesn't affect my gameplay in the slightest.

They should make it a legendary ring with a sha-touched socket. It'd have a proc like tier 6/10 rings of old (band of the eternal champion, e.g.), the sha-touched socket, and a normal socket. Weapons could still use Eye of the Black Prince.

Then everyone can have it and it's not a huge balance issue like a legendary weapon would be. However, if it is a weapon, I also think they could make two or three versions of the legendary and hand it out in the respective raid, requiring you to achieve certain PvE kills in order to earn the higher tier versions. That would obviously mean guilds would be selling the achievement and all that, so maybe you require the whole instance, idk.

I also wouldn't mind lfr/norma/heroic tiers for the legendary to be separate, regardless of whether it's a weapon or not, but with 608 cloaks, that would probably seem unfair to LFR.

Rings are a good choice because there are two, and trinkets are already super important and unique, whereas rings are usually stat sticks. Plus, it would be sort of a callback to good old rings like Kara/MH/ICC rings.

I have to say that I disagree. Big part of legendary item was it's rarity. If everyone wields legendary weapon then it's not so legendary. They need to be time consuming and hard to obtain. If you wanted to get it from Illidan or Kil'jaiden you sure needed skill combined with luck.

Not all legendaries in the past have been hard to obtain; many were entirely luck-based. Compared to those, I'd say this expansion's is far "harder" to get.

And with "time consuming," there is no contest for this one. No other legendary in the game has come even close to being as time consuming as this one, as it will take three tiers of raiding to complete.

RNG is still a factor, skill is still a factor (as you still have solo tasks you must achieve), and time and effort is definitely a factor since you have to be dedicated to raid regularly for a very extended amount of time.

As far as rarity, yeah, this one might be more common (although maybe; I don't honestly know how many casual people are that invested in the chain -- we could all just be inflating the amount), but it still has every other factor working for it. And rarity, even if you think its the most important factor, is still not the only factor, otherwise they've be downgrading the old legendaries that everyone has (like TF) to epic.

And frankly I think it would be real dickish on Blizzard's part to let LFR raiders complete the chain all the way to the end and then say LOL NEVERMIND! when it comes to the final reward.