IAmRight:Rwa2play: Jeez, even as a Giants fan I don't go there on the Eagles and Cowboys. Is this a west coast thing now?

Well, I've been saying that only a retard would think these guys aren't using PEDs since back when everyone wanted to pretend it was a huge deal in baseball, so I'm pretty much being consistent.

I'd rather have a good team that had a few guys who got caught than a sh*t team that everyone was "clean" on, since I don't have a hardon for the War on Drugs.

I don't watch the game to see a fair clean contest. I watch the game to be entertained. And PEDs only add to the entertainment level. They should be actively encouraged at the pro level. After all, it's not my balls that are shriveling up.

Please if under half the league is doping, I'd be shocked. Although I'm sure we'll have people in here to argue how all the appearance of all these 330 pound manbeasts (who are solid muscle) is totally normal and just the result of training.

The Seahawks suck because I'd imagine it is like pro bike racing where you have a lot of infrastructure to support covert doping, so you have to be extra farking stupid to get caught.

desertgeek:It's still 6. Sherman just used the Ryan Braun defense, that's it. He still pissed hot.

Again, for everyone that says this, I hope you take a drug test, have the collector, who is known to have collected samples improperly at least a half-dozen times, give you a cup that leaks, and just tells you to pour it in this extra one he has over here, that's open and not sealed. Then you pop positive. I feel like you'd change your tune about that being a legitimate defense.

desertgeek:Sherman just used the Ryan Braun defense, that's it. He still pissed hot.

I'm not going to defend anyone who tests positive, but, I'm glad both Sherman and Braun were able to get their cases overturned.

I may hate cheaters, but I'm beyond flabbergasted that entities like the NFL and MLB, in the super-touchy era we live in with regards to performance-enhancers, would be dumb enough to employ/contract dimwits who can't follow procedure when handling samples. You deserve scorn and embarrassment for that.

IAmRight:desertgeek: It's still 6. Sherman just used the Ryan Braun defense, that's it. He still pissed hot.

Again, for everyone that says this, I hope you take a drug test, have the collector, who is known to have collected samples improperly at least a half-dozen times, give you a cup that leaks, and just tells you to pour it in this extra one he has over here, that's open and not sealed. Then you pop positive. I feel like you'd change your tune about that being a legitimate defense.

Not to mention false positives that have a highly probable chance of occurring if every player in the league gets tested even twice a year.

IAmRight:desertgeek: It's still 6. Sherman just used the Ryan Braun defense, that's it. He still pissed hot.

Again, for everyone that says this, I hope you take a drug test, have the collector, who is known to have collected samples improperly at least a half-dozen times, give you a cup that leaks, and just tells you to pour it in this extra one he has over here, that's open and not sealed. Then you pop positive. I feel like you'd change your tune about that being a legitimate defense.

Lighten up. Sherman's mouth alone will always make him look guilty in the court of public opinion.

Killer Cars:desertgeek: Sherman just used the Ryan Braun defense, that's it. He still pissed hot.

I'm not going to defend anyone who tests positive, but, I'm glad both Sherman and Braun were able to get their cases overturned.

I may hate cheaters, but I'm beyond flabbergasted that entities like the NFL and MLB, in the super-touchy era we live in with regards to performance-enhancers, would be dumb enough to employ/contract dimwits who can't follow procedure when handling samples. You deserve scorn and embarrassment for that.

I agree with this. I also would say that in Braun's case, the public shouldn't know about a failed drug test until after an appeal has been heard and denied.

But based on the information that publicly available, the mishandling did not affect the test specimens in any way. In Braun's case, that's been proven. Sherman's case, I'm not as certain about.

desertgeek:Killer Cars: desertgeek: Sherman just used the Ryan Braun defense, that's it. He still pissed hot.

I'm not going to defend anyone who tests positive, but, I'm glad both Sherman and Braun were able to get their cases overturned.

I may hate cheaters, but I'm beyond flabbergasted that entities like the NFL and MLB, in the super-touchy era we live in with regards to performance-enhancers, would be dumb enough to employ/contract dimwits who can't follow procedure when handling samples. You deserve scorn and embarrassment for that.

I agree with this. I also would say that in Braun's case, the public shouldn't know about a failed drug test until after an appeal has been heard and denied.

But based on the information that publicly available, the mishandling did not affect the test specimens in any way. In Braun's case, that's been proven. Sherman's case, I'm not as certain about.

Marcus Aurelius:I don't watch the game to see a fair clean contest. I watch the game to be entertained. And PEDs only add to the entertainment level.

If you're a psychopath, anyway. The problem with PEDs in the NFL is that the improvements in equipment aren't keeping up. Let me pre-empt the usual "you're just blinded by nostalgia" counterpoint by acknowledging that, yes, concussions in football pre-date PEDs and the NFL itself. Also, advances in equipment safety have certainly gone a long way toward mitigating injuries. That said, players these days are a terrifying combination of power and speed. For example, it's a myth that the linemen from twenty years ago are smaller (try going back farther than that), but they were certainly slower. A 2013 DE needs to be about as fast as a 1993 linebacker just to make the roster, and momentum is a combination of mass AND velocity. All that flying meat causes bad things to happen.

That said, there's only so much you can do if the culture itself embraces PEDs. In those cases, though, at least have it be all one or the other -- permanently ban anyone who uses them without coddling the superstars or covering up systemic abuse, or make it a goddamn free-for-all. Half-assed PR measures only hurt the guys who have integrity, which is exactly how not to run a society.

So of course we're going to go the half-assed PR route, because if there's a dirty world it's professional sports.

Rwa2play:IAmRight: Guess we should do a better job of masking it, like the 49ers.

/anyone who believes any team has no players who have taken banned substances in the past three years is dumber than Goodell

Jeez, even as a Giants fan I don't go there on the Eagles and Cowboys. Is this a west coast thing now?

No he's just a douche, when the peahawks suck he just roots for the packers, there are plenty of people that use adderal for legit medical reasons. The problem is that all these players seem to not bother getting medical clearance.

I'm not going to defend anyone who tests positive, but, I'm glad both Sherman and Braun were able to get their cases overturned.

I may hate cheaters, but I'm beyond flabbergasted that entities like the NFL and MLB, in the super-touchy era we live in with regards to performance-enhancers, would be dumb enough to employ/contract dimwits who can't follow procedure when handling samples. You deserve scorn and embarrassment for that.

I agree with this. I also would say that in Braun's case, the public shouldn't know about a failed drug test until after an appeal has been heard and denied.

But based on the information that publicly available, the mishandling did not affect the test specimens in any way. In Braun's case, that's been proven. Sherman's case, I'm not as certain about.

A little perspective for anyone who thinks the Seahawks are ZOMGCHEATERS.

All that article says is the Seahawks are cheating the most.

On the other hand, Allen Barbre isn't with the team; Winston Guy is a marginal end-of-the-roster guy who has barely played and might or might not make the 53-man roster in 2013; and John Moffitt is the guy who couldn't beat out a 7th-round converted-DT rookie, and is also now on the roster bubble. That leaves them with two convicted PED users of any consequence, Brandon Browner and now Bruce Irvin.

It's cute that subby thinks footballs fan about PEDs. Football fans care nothing about the integrity of the game or the health of the players. Football fans care about only three things, Did my team win? How did my Fantasy Football players do?, and Did I cover the points spread?

Bottom line, the Seahawks have more than their fair share of suspensions over the last few seasons, a whopping 5 out of over 100 players that have cycled through here. Obviously, that means Pete Carroll is a dirty cheater and Adderall is the only reason the Seahawks made the playoffs. Lets get a little perspective here though - 45 players who are not Seahawks have been suspended over the same time frame and I never saw any trolly headlines calling their coaches cheaters.

Feign outrage all you want about how an ADD drug taken by children all over the country is somehow affecting the purity of NFL football and Pete Carroll is the #1 pusher. The fact is they've got one more suspension over the last few years than the next two teams behind them. Whoopty frigging doo.

A little perspective for anyone who thinks the Seahawks are ZOMGCHEATERS.

when half the league has no players or only one suspended and your team has six it does add "a little perspective"

But we're not hearing a peep about Denver and NYG (with one less suspension each) are we? Until this Irvin suspension all you heard about was Seattle when two others had just as many suspensions.

It's obviously a conspiracy against your team.

/farking Seattle fans//instead of the conspiracy angle how bout just say "I don't care if my team cheats, I only care if I can make fun of your team for cheating", much more honest; much less self righteous and pathetically homerrific///also it is cheating, even if "everyone" else is doing it...personally I don't care about PEDs, I hope my team is doing them and getting away with it, but to pretend it isn't against the rules because you totally know everyone is doing it, well that's sliding right back into that sad butthurt Seattle fans are famous for

As a Seahawks fan, I will say this is mildly concerning, but I don't think it has much to do with Carroll. If I remember correctly, most teams have some sort of compliance officer or something of that nature who lectures the athletes about what they can/can't take, and also is available for questions about supplements. This could be something as simply as not having or having a shiatty compliance officer.

That said, I do buy Irvin's explanation: apparently, he does have a prescrip for Adderall, but he was taking it before the NFL cleared the paperwork. Not entirely fair, but them's the rules.

A little perspective for anyone who thinks the Seahawks are ZOMGCHEATERS.

when half the league has no players or only one suspended and your team has six it does add "a little perspective"

But we're not hearing a peep about Denver and NYG (with one less suspension each) are we? Until this Irvin suspension all you heard about was Seattle when two others had just as many suspensions.

It's obviously a conspiracy against your team.

/farking Seattle fans//instead of the conspiracy angle how bout just say "I don't care if my team cheats, I only care if I can make fun of your team for cheating", much more honest; much less self righteous and pathetically homerrific///also it is cheating, even if "everyone" else is doing it...personally I don't care about PEDs, I hope my team is doing them and getting away with it, but to pretend it isn't against the rules because you totally know everyone is doing it, well that's sliding right back into that sad butthurt Seattle fans are famous for

I never said 95% of the words you just put in my mouth. I agree with you that using substance banned by the league is cheating. I do care if my team is doing them. I just think that when you only ever hear about Seattle cheating, when half the league has had player suspended and a quarter has had multiple players suspended, is disingenuous.

I never said there was a conspiracy against the Seahawks; I just made note that the only NFL articles regarding PED suspensions we seem to see here are trolly Seahawk ones. If I had asked you before today which three teams were tied atop the list of teams with the most PED suspensions, the vast majority of people would say "Seattle and, uh..."

You certainly wouldn't have heard a peep about those noted cheaters, Tom Coughlin and John Fox.

I hate that the Seahawks top that list, but I prefer to keep it in perspective - half the league has had players suspended for PED use the last few years. Let's not pretend Seattle is some kind of outlier here.

seumasokelly:I hate that the Seahawks top that list, but I prefer to keep it in perspective - half the league has had players suspended for PED use the last few years. Let's not pretend Seattle is some kind of outlier here

seumasokelly:Feign outrage all you want about how an ADD drug taken by children all over the country is somehow affecting the purity of NFL football and Pete Carroll is the #1 pusher. The fact is they've got one more suspension over the last few years than the next two teams behind them. Whoopty frigging doo.

I don't disagree, but speaking as a Pats fan who still takes shots for spygate (even though I personally never tried to rationalize it as anything other than "something really bad and indefensible we got caught for"), you're better off just letting haters hate on some things.

PowerSlacker:seumasokelly: I hate that the Seahawks top that list, but I prefer to keep it in perspective - half the league has had players suspended for PED use the last few years. Let's not pretend Seattle is some kind of outlier here

seumasokelly:I hate that the Seahawks top that list, but I prefer to keep it in perspective - half the league has had players suspended for PED use the last few years. Let's not pretend Seattle is some kind of outlier here.

Killer Cars:seumasokelly: Feign outrage all you want about how an ADD drug taken by children all over the country is somehow affecting the purity of NFL football and Pete Carroll is the #1 pusher. The fact is they've got one more suspension over the last few years than the next two teams behind them. Whoopty frigging doo.

I don't disagree, but speaking as a Pats fan who still takes shots for spygate (even though I personally never tried to rationalize it as anything other than "something really bad and indefensible we got caught for"), you're better off just letting haters hate on some things.

The Seahawks bring it on themselves by being loud. I'm not defending the behavior, I'm just pointing out that it's dumb we only ever hear about the Seahawks testing positive when the half the league has the same problem. People came after the Pats due to a tradition of success that they desperately wanted to explain away as the direct result of cheating. Hopefully the Seahawks will attain that level soon.