Originally posted by Lord Lucien This is getting way too long. It's a decent but forgettable movie with a bad ending scene.

This is more to do with the pedantic nitpicking of anything non-OT, epidemic among the crustier members of the SW community, pally.

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And I don't know if you read my whole post before beginning to respond, but if not, please do. Not reading the whole thing first is how things get repeated ad nauseum and points overlooked.

I did.

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I don't give a f*ck about the EU or the books or the games or whatever. I care about the movies.

But you rather stuck your foot in it by completely missing my point here. Not that I didn't expect it though, I imagine at the first mention of "EU" the #triggering occurs and you mash the keyboard in automatic.

However, to avoid repeating myself ad nauseam, how about you give reading it another go.

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Yes, true. And you're thinking of the wrong Luke moment. He went and dealt with Obi-Wan in ANH all by himself, and he went and dealt with Luke in ESB all by himself. Those were only solo sojourns. He flew after Luke in ANH with an escort, and after sending in a wave first. Which is a smart thing for a commander to do, no matter how skilled that commander is. Vader's not an immortal genie with infinite mana; he can be killed and he knows he needs people to cover him and watch his back.

Right, so what your saying is that if Vader had diced up the rebels with a pair of stormtroopers at his back, the scene would be A'OK?

Forgive me if I fail to see what use they could have been.

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He did nothing of the sort in the PT except for that one retarded attempt to redeem his character 10 minutes before he executed a man in cold blood. And if you're talking about the CGI TV show, don't bother. I only care about the movies, and this movie dropped the Vader-ball.

The opening to Revenge of the Sith in which the character of Anakin is established, quite, in which he (almost) single-handedly boards an enemy cruiser, rescues the Chancellor then lands the thing on the planet's surface. Seemed like a pretty hands on guy to me...

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You're not following, and your snark doesn't look good.

Don't pretend you don't find it endearing.

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Vader doesn't have much TK in the OT. He chokes some people and slowly tosses some metal piping at Luke. That's it. The EU (e.g. The Force Unleashed) did the over-the-top superpower/Dragonball Z stuff. Vader wasn't a superpowered demi-god with phenomenal cosmic power. He was a prick in a robot suit that could strangle people with his mind or hit them with his laser sword. That's why he had goons and minions--he wasn't all powerful. This movie decided to start adding some of those video-game TK skills for the sake of having a cool scene. Which made his foregone failure to get said plans very confusing and made no sense. They could have had it make sense, by not having that scene at all.

He has enough to do all the aforementioned bar gripping the Falcon, in regards to which I supposed he can be let off on. But he could have gotten their a little faster don't you think man?

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Again, you're missing the point. Cornering, testing, corrupting, and capturing Luke was the whole point of every action Vader took in ESB. It was his singular end goal. Had Luke not escaped the carbonite pit, stood his own for so long in battle, and attempted suicide at the end, he would have had him. The confrontation between those two characters was the central point of the entire movie. It can be drawn out, and it should be for effect. That doing so also fit in with the plot is a sign of good storytelling and good filmmaking.

His end goal was to put Luke into a carbonite pit and mail him to the Emperor, none of additional fluff was necessary to achieve that, rather he should have just ambushed the f*cker and tossed him in the pit. But I agree, it was instead drawn out in this manner for the purpose of generating effect for the viewer, just like it was in Rogue One.

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Reacquiring the USB stick that could destroy the Death Star was Vader's all-encompassing purpose for the entire one minute of screentime he had at the end of R1. But because the filmmakers wanted to draw that one out for the sake of appeasing unthinking or simple audience members, they made him an idiot who failed utterly in that purpose.

I disagree. The purpose of the scene was to demonstrate the menace of Vader and contrast that against the hope represented by Leia, and it did that, in rather a blunt way but an effective way nonetheless, and, in my opinion, provided both an effective segway into ANH and a suitable dramatic send-off to a climatic third act.

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I get you want to like all these films for identical reasons, but the films aren't identical.

I couldn't help but chuckle here given most of your points thus far have revolved around the movies failing to rhyme.

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Stop falling in to that trip where you think that somehow disproving... something for superficially similar reasons in the OT acquits Rogue One's flaws. It's no better than someone criticizing your ugly shoes and you responding "Well you're laces aren't tied, so that proves my shoes aren't ugly!"

That's not what I'm trying to do at all dear, rather I'm attempting to highlight how you are nitpicking - these elements didn't detract from the OT and they don't detract from Rogue One either. Vader stands stood in the dark corner of the room in ESB to look cool and generate an atmosphere, nothing more, Vader never ran in the OT because he'd look dumb doing it, nothing more, Vader didn't use TK when he really should of in the OT because plot, and who really cares? Not a viewer whose sufficiently engaged in the scene to not bother sparing the mental energy picking apart the problems in a movie about space wizards.

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Vader did not need to be in the movie's ending, he served no purpose, and added nothing. But in forcing the scene to happen, the writers broke from what the character was immediately supposed to be like in just a few hours, and made him needlessly brutal---seriously, making him that violent (and sadistic--it's the only reason I can think of for why he did it all so slowly, which led to his own failure) added nothing worthwhile and only took away something good. It was a useless, terrible scene.

See above. And to add, Vader is a mean and violent guy yeah, welcome to 1977?

Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.

Originally posted by Rebel95 The scene was cool. Stop crying about how it doesn't fit with Vader's character in the OT and move on.

because only your opinion matters (and those who agree with you, of course)

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Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.

Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.

Originally posted by quanchi112 It was very cool to me when he failed against worthless grunts. Very cool indeed. Way to fail, Vader.

It was also cool when Maul got cut in half by a padawan. And when he begged Sidious for mercy. Oh, and when he got thrown off a cliff by Kanan. And there's also that time he was killed by Kenobi in less than 3 seconds. I just can't decide which one was my favorite

Originally posted by Rebel95 It was also cool when Maul got cut in half by a padawan. And when he begged Sidious for mercy. Oh, and when he got thrown off a cliff by Kanan. And there's also that time he was killed by Kenobi in less than 3 seconds. I just can't decide which one was my favorite

oh snap it's ON!!!

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Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.

Originally posted by Rebel95 It was also cool when Maul got cut in half by a padawan. And when he begged Sidious for mercy. Oh, and when he got thrown off a cliff by Kanan. And there's also that time he was killed by Kenobi in less than 3 seconds. I just can't decide which one was my favorite

Now it's my turn. I love that despite falling hundreds of feet and being cut in half he lived. I loved that the next time he came into direct conflict with Sidious he wasn't intimidated at all. I loved that he blinded Kanan. I loved that he died as a true Sith wallowing in his own lust for vengeance and selfishness.

Why stop there. I love when Anakin got all misty eyed when his whore mother was killed. I loved when Kenobi beat him and he laid there screaming I Hate you like a big baby. I loved when his whore wife died and that's the whole reason for him becoming a Sith. I loved when Kanan knocked him on his ass with a force push. I loved when Hera out schooled in as a pilot. I loved when Tano ****ed his helmet up. I loved when Palpatine lied to him and told him that Anakin killed her. I also loved when Luke absolutely crushed him in combat in Rotj. I loved when he pussed out on the dark side at the end revealing himself just to be a pretender Sith.

Originally posted by quanchi112 Now it's my turn. I love that despite falling hundreds of feet and being cut in half he lived. I loved that the next time he came into direct conflict with Sidious he wasn't intimidated at all. I loved that he blinded Kanan. I loved that he died as a true Sith wallowing in his own lust for vengeance and selfishness.

Why stop there. I love when Anakin got all misty eyed when his whore mother was killed. I loved when Kenobi beat him and he laid there screaming I Hate you like a big baby. I loved when his whore wife died and that's the whole reason for him becoming a Sith. I loved when Kanan knocked him on his ass with a force push. I loved when Hera out schooled in as a pilot. I loved when Tano ****ed his helmet up. I loved when Palpatine lied to him and told him that Anakin killed her. I also loved when Luke absolutely crushed him in combat in Rotj. I loved when he pussed out on the dark side at the end revealing himself just to be a pretender Sith.

Maul died a true Sith whereas Vader died a traitor to the Sith.

Wrong, Maul died a pathetic loser. Vader died a hero, killing the most powerful Sith Lord in history and saving his son. I wouldn't expect you to understand that though

Originally posted by Rebel95 Wrong, Maul died a pathetic loser. Vader died a hero, killing the most powerful Sith Lord in history and saving his son. I wouldn't expect you to understand that though

Maul died a true Sith whereas Vader died a traitor to the Sith. He jumped ship and was mentally weak. His son brought him back. The second time in his life he abandoned his code. Maul died a warrior in combat Vader died a traitor who attacked an old man when his back was turned while torturing Vader's son Luke.