Do you think ANY of the roster moves made by the Patriots are aided by the fact that Kraft was a ticket holder? You claimed that Kraft's football knowledge aids him to be a better owner. It doesn't. His running the team the right way does. Running it the right way includes letting someone else make ALL the personnel decisions.

look, I have no idea what you think you are illuminating with this. My points are simple; kraft is a self made man and so is JJ whereas Clarky boy is not.

As for kraft and drafts etc, he had parcells in there during the nineties and a GM that was a bit stubborn, hence the famous parcells quote "if you want me to cook the meal, you ought to let me pick the groceries" and parcells left that team flush with talent. he made another key hire in BB and we all know what happened there.

Clark has been around this team since birth. he was slow firing CP, now he's backing a GM that fired this team's best coach since Clark took over and do I have to go into the fact FA & coaching candidates are steering clear of KC & piholi? That is Clark's legacy so far. It's bad business, bad football.

__________________My name is Clay. I am a clueless moron when it comes to evaluating football talent. I thought that Pat Mahomes was unworthy of being drafted in the first round, also, I wanted Geno Smith first overall. I also claimed that tyreek hill was undeserving of even being in the CFL. I am wrong 20x more than I'm right and I will troll this site with my uneducated football takes.

look, I have no idea what you think you are illuminating with this. My points are simple; kraft is a self made man and so is JJ whereas Clarky boy is not.

As for kraft and drafts etc, he had parcells in there during the nineties and a GM that was a bit stubborn, hence the famous parcells quote "if you want me to cook the meal, you ought to let me pick the groceries" and parcells left that team flush with talent. he made another key hire in BB and we all know what happened there.

Just FYI, here's some highlights of Robert Kraft's resume pre Tom Brady:

1) Takes over the Patriots during Parcells' tenure.
2) Parcells took the Pats from the #1 pick to a Super Bowl appearance. Kraft runs him off.
3) Parcells' impending departure becomes a major distraction during that Super Bowl. The Pats lose.
4) Parcells not only leaves, he goes to a division rival.
5) The Pats start getting worse every year after Parcells' departure.
6) Doesn't pay future HOFer Curtis Martin, allows him to go to a division rival in his prime.
7) Flirts with moving the Pats to the thriving NFL hotbed of Connecticut.
8) Trades a first-round pick to a division rival.
9) Trades that pick for Belichick, a move about as popular back then as someone trading a first-round pick for Norv Turner would be today.
10) Team wins 5 games, putting them back in the same basement they were in before Kraft took over.

Now I'm not for sure, but up until the Patriots lucked into the best draft pick in NFL history, I don't think too many of their fans were pumping their fists about ol' self made Robert Kraft and his grand football IQ.

Just FYI, here's some highlights of Robert Kraft's resume pre Tom Brady:

1) Takes over the Patriots during Parcells' tenure.
2) Parcells took the Pats from the #1 pick to a Super Bowl appearance. Kraft runs him off.
3) Parcells' impending departure becomes a major distraction during that Super Bowl. The Pats lose.
4) Parcells not only leaves, he goes to a division rival.
5) The Pats start getting worse every year after Parcells' departure.
6) Doesn't pay future HOFer Curtis Martin, allows him to go to a division rival in his prime.
7) Flirts with moving the Pats to the thriving NFL hotbed of Connecticut.
8) Trades a first-round pick to a division rival.
9) Trades that pick for Belichick, a move about as popular back then as someone trading a first-round pick for Norv Turner would be today.
10) Team wins 5 games, putting them back in the same basement they were in before Kraft took over.

Now I'm not for sure, but up until the Patriots lucked into the best draft pick in NFL history, I don't think too many of their fans were pumping their fists about ol' self made Robert Kraft and his grand football IQ.

Well, not really quite true -- Parcells became HC in 1993. He coached the team only one season previous to Kraft's buyout. Parcells remained HC under Kraft for 3 of his four seasons as HC of the Patriots. They did not get along though, so we agree there.

Kraft made Pete Carroll the next HC and that was another fail.

But it turns out they were all the right moves. And, again I think kraft has better football sense than clark does, which is kind of whacked considering clark's upbringing.

I think you guys are trying too hard to tell me kraft made plenty of mistakes -- I am aware and my point is that he has the experience previous to his NFL ownership and that is a big big diff between the two men.

Enough about Kraft.

Tell me why Clark Hunt is going to enjoy any success as an NFL owner?

Give me some accomplishments that haven't been obvious. Because the obvious accomplishments aren't much of an offset to the failure Clark has fielded season after season.

look, I have no idea what you think you are illuminating with this. My points are simple; kraft is a self made man and so is JJ whereas Clarky boy is not.
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You said Kraft was better because of his "football IQ". I said it has nothing to do with his football IQ but rather how he lets others run the "football IQ" stuff and just helps the team in other ways. You go on to argue that Kraft does stuff outside of personnel better then Clark. Something I never disagreed with, and was in fact pointing out. I was disagreeing with something you said and you went on to defend a point that I never disagreed with. Either you don't know what football IQ really means or you don't remember that you said it.

You said Kraft was better because of his "football IQ". I said it has nothing to do with his football IQ but rather how he lets others run the "football IQ" stuff and just helps the team in other ways. You go on to argue that Kraft does stuff outside of personnel better then Clark. Something I never disagreed with, and was in fact pointing out. I was disagreeing with something you said and you went on to defend a point that I never disagreed with. Either you don't know what football IQ really means or you don't remember that you said it.

well, you can have your opine that clarky boy is a more football intel dude than kraft is. I don't think it's even close, myself.

well, you can have your opine that clarky boy is a more football intel dude than kraft is. I don't think it's even close, myself.

When did I say that? I never implied Clark has more football IQ. All I said was the football IQ doesn't matter. You listed all the reasons that Kraft has a good franchise and its not because he understands football more. He has just done things better and gotten lucky with his QB and hired the right HC/GM. Clark tried to hire the right GM and it failed.

This all started with Chiefsforlife58 saying Clark couldn't be a good owner because football isn't his first love. I am not saying Clark knows more about football, I am just arguing that its the not the reason an owner does well. Kraft has done things right but none of them have to do with the x's and o's or personnel side. You have listed a lot of things Kraft has done right and I don't disagree. This was all about Chiefsforlife58's comment and yours saying Kraft's football IQ meant something. What Kraft has done right is staying out of the football side of things.

If Clark is doomed it has nothing to do with his knowledge of the sport and everything to do with what he wants out of this franchise.