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Help with Germany and Eastern Europe

Our trip isn't until the very end of August or beginning of September of next year, but since we are using frequent flyer miles, I will need to make the reservations within the next month. We are also using Starwood points, so I've listed the ones we're considering. This is our rough draft of our itinerary thus far and I would appreciate any suggestions or input:

We don't do shopping while on vacation and I don't need any recommendations on where to eat.

Arrive Berlin and stay 5 full days, including a day in Charlottenburg and another day in Potsdam.
Either the Westin Grand or the Sheraton Berlin grand Esplanade
Take the train to Prague

Stay in Prague at the Sheraton Prague Charles Square for 5 days, including a day in Cesky Krumlov. Some sites seem to say it takes 2 hours on the train one way and I've found others that state 1.5 hours. We aren't interested in seeing the Bone Church. Is 4 days in Prague (including CK) overkill?

Take train to Krakow and stay at the Sheraton in Krakow
Stay in Krakow for 4 full days, including a day for Auschwitz Berkenau

On the last day in Krakow, take the night train to Budapest

There aren't any Starwoods in Budapest, so I am open to any suggestions for lodging. It can be a B&B, a studio or small apartment, or hotel. We don't want to pay for more than about $80 a night, if possible.

We would stay in Budapest for 5 full days, including a day in the wine region and one day at another site. We really don't want to spend more than an hour traveling to a day trip, so I ruled out Eger, Holloko, Gyor and Esztergom and we are considering Vac, Godollo, Szentendre or Etyek.

We would leave to go home from here.

We enjoy history, culture, museums, architecture, an occasional church and walking tours. From what I've read there are tons of churches, castles/palaces and Jewish history on these routes, but I would like suggestions as to which of these are your top picks in each town and city.

Wooops! My mistake, it takes a lot longer to get from Prague to Cesky Krumlov on the train. (Maybe I was looking at the time from Prague to the place where you connect trains?) I'm thinking of scratching that part of the trip out.

I had a car when I visited Cesky Krumlov, but as I understand it, the bus is a much better option to get between Prague and Cesky Krumlov. The bus is direct and gets you closer to the center; the train requires a change and the station in CK is further from the center. Check out a "Student Agency" bus - I took one from Olomouc to Brno and it was very clean and comfortable. (I always prefer a train to a bus, but sometimes the buses are more practical.)

There is no direct train between Prague and Krakow. It is not a short journey. Last I checked, the most practical option was a train + bus connection.

The Bahn site is great for Germany and for checking out other parts of Europe, but I always rely on the country-specific sites to make exact plans.

If you want to consider renting a car for a few days between Prague and Krakow, you could do something similar to what I did in reverse: rent a car in Prague, stop in Cesky Krumlov, stop in a few other towns, return the car in a town like Brno or some other Czech town that has a direct connection to Krakow. Driving in Czech Republic was easy. There are some nice little towns in Southern Bohemia (like CK). It's not an amazingly beautiful drive, but it was pleasant. The towns are probably better when you will be there than when I visited at the end of September (when the season was clearly winding down - the towns felt dead).

You can find my 2012 trip report from Czech Republic and Poland by clicking on my name.

There is no direct train between Prague and Krakow. It is not a short journey. Last I checked, the most practical option was a train + bus connection.>

Yes in the daytime - the fastest link leaves Prague about 7:30amand takes 5.5 hours to get to Krakow (last portion by bus as andrew says)- there seem to be no more train-bus 5.5hr links for several hours buit there are train only links but they take 7-8 hours and require 2-3 changes of trains.

But there is a direct overnight train that leaves Prague about 11pm and gets to Krakow about 7-8 am in the morning - I've taken it and it has private compartments if you want - bring any food or drink aboard and have a relaxed ride - save on a day's hotel costs,etc.

We visited Krakow in April and would recommend taking one (or more) of the free walking tours offered by freewalkingtour.com. We went on the Old Town Krakow and the Jewish Krakow tours. Both guides were friendly and well-informed; they took us to places we would have otherwise missed.

I also booked a tour with Adam of Auschwitz Krakow tours to Auschwitz Birkenau; there was no space on the group tour so Adam picked us up himself one late afternoon and took us. Lovely man and his personal family connections to Auschwitz are very tender stories.

Don't miss the Wawel Castle, specifically "The Lady With an Ermine" by da Vinci which was much more impressive (IMHO) than that other painting everyone has to see in Paris...

You didn't ask for restaurant recommendations but we had such a nice meal at Restaurant Starka I feel compelled to mention it. Reservations appeared to be necessary. We turned up very early for dinner (without reservation) and they were able to seat us but explained they would have to turn the table in two hours. Many people showed up later who were turned away. The meal from starter to dessert to hand-flavored vodkas was excellent. And it cost (with tip) the equivalent of $38 US dollars total for two people.

I'm not sure exactly where your hotel is located but we stayed in a flat very close to the Wawel Castle on the Vistula River which was popular with people sunning and relaxing on the riverside. Nice evening walks there.

Krakow is a wonderfully historic city. I am sure you will enjoy our trip there.

Not a traditional hotel in Budapest, but since you're open to it, check out Gold Hotel. 2 bus stops from Mexico (a central bus/tram depot)....perhaps 10-15 minutes at most from the Danube. Very accomodating staff. (who recommended Trofea Grill...I'd go back in a heartbeat..excellent dining, and I'm fussy)

Thank you all for your input. I am saving all of the info I'm receiving onto a document so that I can refer back to it when needed.

We sat down and revisited our itinerary last weekend and we agreed to eliminate Germany from our trip....My honey's ancestors are all German, so we decided that we can make a whole trip just about Germany the next time we visit Europe.

We are now looking at:

Prague: 4 full days, including 1 day trip....maybe we'll go to Kutna Hora after all. About a 4 hour train to Vienna

Vienna: 2 full days, including 1 day to Bratislava. About a 2.5 hour train to Budapest

Budapest: 4 full days, including 1 day trip....not sure where yet, but we don't want to take a train or bus trip that'll take more than about 1.5 hours from Budapest one way. Take night train to Krakow

I'd probably recommend Cesky Krumlov as the day trip from Prague instead of Kutna Hora, even though neither one turned out to be a favorite. The bone church near Kutna Hora was really cool, and there is more to the town than just that, but it seemed a lot of effort just to see that church, if that's what interested you there. Cesky Krumlov is a much more interesting and picturesque town, in my opinion, as well, as well.

In fact, you could do Cesky Krumlov as a stop (overnight?) between Prague and Vienna. There is at least one private shuttle service - probably a van - that takes you between Cesky Krumlov and Vienna. Google for it. Staying over in a smaller town like Cesky Krumlov for even one might break up the big city stays you'll otherwise have in all of the other places.

Some will suggest you spend more time in Vienna, but I had only two nights there myself and that was about right for me - I preferred Prague and Budapest.

But you still might be trying to fit in too much, given your interests. Just for one specific example, as I lover of art museums, culture, and architecture, I felt hard pressed to visit Vienna in just FIVE very full days, and that did not include any day trips!

if you decide to trim a bit more -- which I recommend -- you might keep in mind that cities with international airports are the ones that you can revisit most easily, and so might be targets for "shortchanging" on this particular trip, with the idea that they would be more easily revisited than other places. Just a thought.

If you haven't already done so, I urge you to use a calendar to plan your time, plotting out your time at the sites that most interest you and with attention to their opening and closing time. Even with the more generous times you are currently contemplating, you will NOT be able to see everything you might want to see in each of these cities, so you WILL need to make some difficult choices. Your call whether to make them in advance, and plan accordingly, or to try to make them on the fly.

A resounding second to Mrs_Wilde's recommendation to see the Lady with an Ermine while in Krakow. She is magnificent.

And one other thought: Consider options other than those available with your points. You will be traveling a long way at a nontrivial cost; limiting yourself to the options you have with your points might constrain your trip in ways that pose unnecessary opportunity costs. Again, just a thought.

I'd suggest you take a day from Prague and add it to Vienna (so it would be 3 days each, and 4 each in Budapest and in Krakow). I would skip Bratislava this time unless there is some compelling reason to go, or you can save it for your last Vienna day and decide on the spot whether to go.

Our interests are very similar to yours, except I'd add craft beer and coffee to the mix, and we tend to like to roam in cities and people watch, and eat in small local places and ride public transit.

Last year I had 12 nights to spread among Budapest, Vienna and Prague for a first-time visit. I tossed and turned, and finally decided to spend 4 nights in each location. It was the right decision for us, because it gave us a good feel for each place.

We loved Budapest and are returning for 9 nights this year; we have a long list of places yet to explore. The free walking tours there are excellent -- we did three of them. Thorough that we met a tour guide with whom we are doing a private Art Nouveau walking tour this time -- Anna of https://ourbudapesttours.wordpress.com

Prague was our least favorite, despite everyone saying "you will love Prague." The crowds of tourists were so thick in some places that it cut down on our enjoyment of the city. I think our favorite day was a Friday spent in the farmers' market to the north of the city.

We felt a bit ambivalent after visiting Vienna -- glad we had gone but probably not returning -- but now a year later we are excited to be going back for 4 more nights. I have a long list that we might still not get through this time.

Been to many of your destinations. But now less active oldster. Yes, Dresden if possible for a stroll (read Dresden by Frederick Taylor). Krakow Cloth Square and Auschwitz for sure, Wawel Castle of course, maybe stop at Czestochowa shrine going from Warsaw to Krakow. Visit in Kazimierz (old Jewish section). Might dine or have coffee at Hotel Alef on Ul where Schindler met his family, also relaxing spot for Speilberg. Zakopane a nice day trip into Tatra Mnts. In Prague the Castle across river. Wonderful view across the river. Old Prague is a nice town for wandering...look for Nouveau Art Museum (Mucha) near Wenceslaus Square.

In Budapest of course Hero's Square and Fine Arts Museum and the ancient subway train. Danube Bend river trip nice to Szentendre, Margaret Kovacs art museum and Renaissance Restaurant. Also been to Holloko preserving folk culture. Added note: we enjoyed the various music concerts in various cities...you'll get hand out promotions. Ready for goulash, veal, carrots, potatoes, beet soup or perogi, beer of course?

I could say lots about more highlights including Auschwitz-Berkenau toured on my birthday. Might read Klima, Havel, etc. Yes, visit Vienna if time. Has its own charms. Here's a fun movie "Goodbye Lenin" about demise of Communism in Eastern Europe.

I thought about going from Prague to CK and spending the night there and continuing on to Vienna, but it's 3.5 hours from Prague to CK and then 3.5 hours from CK to Vienna. We can go from Prague directly to Vienna in 4 hours. If CK is REALLY worth it, I would certainly consider it, but not as a day trip from Prague. Is CK really worth the extra train time? Is it very different than Bratislava?

I already have my itinerary for each day, including in which order to do the sights so we're not back tracking....that's how I came up with the number of days in each place. It's funny, but in my research I've found that for Vienna, people seemed to either love it or find it just so so. I was just looking for an in between place from Prague to Budapest that would cut up the trip a little and still be interesting.

GinnyJo, we are not real coffee or beer drinkers....but bring on the wine!!! We're lucky to live close enough to Napa, Sonoma, Livermore, Lodi to go wine tasting on a regular basis. I'm surprised that you didn't care much for Prague, as it seems to be a favorite among the East European travelers. When did you go there?

Ozarksbill, I like the idea of the Hotel Alef on UI.....thanks. I will look into that.

BigRuss, I've read about the Crazy Guides, so I think I'll check into them too.

KJA, my honey is retiring next year and wanted to spend a month in Europe, but since we usually only do 2 weeks at a time, I was concerned that a month might be too much, so I'm willing to compromise and try out about 3 weeks (including a day to get to Europe and a day back) So we could really add more days to our trip, but I hate packing and unpacking and going to catch trains all the time. I'm hoping to make Prague, Budapest and Krakow our home bases and add more day trips to those.

My apologies -- I didn't realize, from your latest posted plan, that your time allotments were for days OTHER THAN travel days. Re-reading it, I can see that you were clear -- sorry! That's why I thought your plan too ambitious overall.

But I'm confused... My count of the travel days in your latest plan, even with transportation days, comes to less than 3 weeks, so I must be misunderstanding something. And if you're including ANY time in Vienna, then I'm not sure how adding to your time there would change your number of hotel changes -- it's still 4, right?

Yes, people have varying reactions to Vienna. After reading posts here for a decade, my take is that a big factor is interest in art -- those who are interested in art are much more likely to enjoy Vienna than others. Just my impression, though, and one that could easily be wrong.

" I'm surprised that you didn't care much for Prague, as it seems to be a favorite among the East European travelers. When did you go there?"

We were there in May 2015 for 3.5 days. We stayed 1/2 block from the Town Hall in a small but comfortable Airb&b apartment.

While there we:
-- took a 3.5 hour free walking tour which was really well done
-- saw the Lennon Wall and a bit of Kampa Island
-- walked the length of Wenceslas Sq (really dreary)
-- visited the Mucha Museum and spent much time enjoying the Art Nouveau architecture around the city
-- thoroughly toured the castle area
-- had a guided tour of the town hall especially to see the inner workings of the clock and get to the top of the tower
-- attended an evening concert at Municipal Hall
--took a lot of public transit including to the very authentic Holesovice market and the outdoor market at Jiriho z Podebrad (very few tourists at these)
-- enjoyed a few gelatos at Angelato and several good meals including Lokal
-- started on WWII walking tour but bailed due to difficulty understanding the tour guide

So we had a nice time, obviously, but the city was so jammed with tourists and loaded with souvenir shops that we didn't have the "authentic" experience we seek when traveling. Interestingly, we twice ran into a large group of Hare Krishnas -- the first evening they were tourists with cameras along the Charles Bridge, and the next day at noon they were chanting in the main intersection between Old and New Town.

(Note that that virtually every paved surface is made of cobblestones and other cut square stones which are tough on even the fittest feet and legs!)

Based on what our trip was like in Sept three years ago, I can recommend spending

Prague /CK
• 1 day on the Mala Strana side of Prague,
• 1 day on the side of the Old Town
• 1/2 day for Kutna Hora. we skipped the Bone church but very much enjoyed the Cathedral and walking through the town. It was practically empty of tourists! After getting back from Kutna Hora, you might consider adding a "cultural" outing. Theatres there are beautiful and so much cheaper than in the west.
• Next day driving to CK (overnight) via Hluboká nad Vltavou. All other cities (Vienna, Budapest) are much bigger and you don't get that small town feeling after all the day trippers are gone. CK was magical. Very medieval --you just have to ignore a few lonely cars parked here and there.
• Hluboká nad Vltavou perhaps is not as well known as the Castle in CK. But oh my.... the woodwork in that castle were amazing. I wish we had enough time to see all of the castle, but we only did a short tour. We liked it more than the caste in CK (this one does have a great viewing area though from which you can see the rest of the town).
• in the afternoon you can visit CK castle and town. I know you didn't ask for restaurant recommendation but I must mention "Le Jardin". It was fantastic!!! And for the quality of the food so inexpensive! One of the best meals I had while traveling.

Vienna
• next day transfer to Vienna. You can do Vienna's Historic Center including the Kunsthistorisches Museum, cathedral, etc (maybe it's a bit weird, but I found Kapuziner Crypt (Kapuzinergruft) very fascinating
• at least 1/2 day for Schoenbrunn Palace
• 1 day for a boat trip to Melk Monastery and the wineries there. Such lovely scenery. And since you can do it by boat, it's also very relaxing.

Budapest
• 1 day on the Buda side
• 1 day on the Pest side
• Definitely do a few hours at the baths. We went to the Gellert Spa and had a blast. We could only spare 2 hours and it was not nearly enough. My sister is in love with the Széchenyi Thermal Bath. In fact she returned the following year again just to visit the baths!

Which wine region? You've ruled out Eger and based on your timings you've also ruled out Tokaji. Gyor not included, Esterhauzhy (I always spell that wrong) is too far. Now there may a little wine area left, just my memory fails me. Which one do you plan to visit?

BTW, I'd go for Eger and the Valley of the women or the virgins ( i forget which) not a great experience but interesting.

I like your new allocation of time in each location. May I suggest that you make final decisions about your day trips once you arrive -- you can then play it by ear based on weather and on whatever strikes your fancy at the time.

When you say that you don't need recommendations on where to eat... does that mean you have restaurant recommendations to share here? We'll be in Budapest and Vienna in a few weeks and, although I have some specific plans for restaurants, I'd be interested in further input.

There is a direct overnight train on the Krakow <=> Prague route. You can also travel in the day, with 1 or 2 connections.

In the summer 2017 season (April-September), there will be a new direct train operating on this route in the daytime. You'll be able to get on in Krakow and get off in Prague (and vice-versa). Trains will depart mid-morning in each direction, arriving Prague late afternoon.