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This is a finding aid. It is a description of archival
material held in the Wilson Library at the University of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill. Unless otherwise noted, the materials described below are
physically available in our reading room, and not digitally available
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Agnes (Sis) Cunningham, musician and magazine
publisher of New York, N.Y., founded
Broadside, a magazine
devoted to topical songs, with her husband, Gordon Friesen, in the early 1960s. They
recorded
and published many of the leading folksingers of the folk revival. The collection
contains
materials from the
Broadside offices. Sound recordings include
open reel tapes and audio cassettes, many of which were used to transcribe topical
folk songs
for publication in
Broadside. Additional recordings include demo
tapes, live concert performances, and interviews, which were sent to the
Broadside offices by friends, folk singers, and subscribers. The work of numerous
performers is included (many of the most significant are listed in the online catalog
terms
below). Documentation materials include a log of the
Broadside
tapes, correspondence, and tape notes. The
Broadside tape log is
a list of the tapes in their original order. Correspondence and tape notes consist
of materials
included in the original tape boxes. Correspondence includes personal letters to Cunningham
and
Friesen from friends and contributors. Tape notes contain track listings of songs,
dates of
performances, and names of performers.

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No usage restrictions.

Copyright Notice

Copyright is retained by the authors of items in these papers, or their descendants,
as
stipulated by United States copyright law.

Preferred Citation

[Identification of item], in the Broadside Collection #20289, Southern Folklife Collection,
Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Provenance

Received from Sis Cunningham on 15 July 1997.

Sensitive Materials Statement

Manuscript collections and archival records may contain materials with sensitive or
confidential information that is protected under federal or state right to privacy
laws and regulations, the North Carolina Public Records Act (N.C.G.S. §
132 1 et seq.), and Article 7 of the North Carolina State Personnel Act (Privacy of
State Employee Personnel Records, N.C.G.S. § 126-22 et seq.).
Researchers are advised that the disclosure of certain information pertaining to
identifiable living individuals represented in this collection without the consent
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person) for which the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill assumes no
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The following terms from
Library of Congress Subject
Headings
suggest topics, persons, geography, etc. interspersed through the
entire collection; the terms do
not usually represent
discrete and easily identifiable portions of the collection--such as folders or
items.

Clicking on a subject heading below will take you into the University Library's
online catalog.

These and related materials may be found under the following headings in online catalogs.

Agnes (Sis) Cunningham was born 19 February 1909 in Watonga, Okla. After struggling
through a
childhood of poverty, she attended Oklahoma State College for Women. Following college,
Cunningham briefly taught music. In the summer of 1931, she went to Commonwealth College
near
Mena, Ark., a labor college with socialist views. Cunningham then became an organizer
for the
Southern Tenant Farmers' Union, and worked as a music instructor at the Southern Summer
School
for Women Workers near Asheville, N.C. Returning to Oklahoma in 1939, she helped organize
the
Red Dust Players, a traveling troupe that entertained and sought to mobilize the state's
poor
with radical songs and skits.

In March 1941, Cunningham met Gordon Elmer Friesen (1909-1996). They were married
on 23 July
1941. They moved to New York City and were invited by Pete Seeger to stay at the Almanac
House,
a three-story house rented by the Almanac Singers, a topical singing group. Cunningham
performed
with the Almanac Singers and appeared on their album
Dear Mr.
President
. In December 1942, Cunningham and Friesen moved to Detroit to establish a
Detroit branch of the Almanacs. They returned to New York City in May 1944, where
Friesen worked
for the Office of War Information and Cunningham performed and wrote songs for People's
Songs, a
radical musical organization. Their daughters Jane and Aggie were born in the late
1940s. In the
1950s, the family struggled with health problems, poverty, and battles with the welfare
system.

In the early 1960s, Cunningham and Friesen founded
Broadside, a
magazine devoted to topical songs. Performer and songwriter Gil Turner aided
Broadside in its early years. Turner was emcee at Gerde's Folk City, a
popular folk club in Greenwich Village. Turner knew many young performers, including
Bob Dylan,
Phil Ochs, and Tom Paxton, and brought them to monthly meetings at Cunningham and
Friesen's
apartment where they sang songs into a tape recorder. Cunningham transcribed the songs
and, with
Friesen and Turner, decided which ones to publish. Songwriters began coming to the
apartment on
their own or sending their taped songs.
Broadside quickly emerged
as the premier national platform for topical songs.

In 1980, Cunningham and Friesen reluctantly gave up
Broadside.
In the mid-1980s, a collective of eight people, including Cunningham, Friesen, and
their
daughter Jane, regained control of the magazine. They produced issue 181 in June 1987
and
continued production until issue 187 in late 1988. Cunningham and Friesen's autobiography
Red Dust and Broadsides: A Joint Autobiography was published in
1999.

The
Broadside Collection contains materials from the offices of
Broadside, a magazine devoted to topical
songs. These items include sound recordings and supporting documentation.

Sound recordings include open reel tapes and audio cassettes. Many of the recordings
were made
in Sis Cunningham and Gordon Friesen's apartment on an
inexpensive Revere open reel tape recorder supplied by Pete Seeger. The
recordings were used to transcribe topical folk songs for publication in
Broadside. Additional recordings in the collection include demo tapes, live concert
performances, and interviews, which were sent to the
Broadside
offices by friends, folk singers, and subscribers. See detailed description for performers
represented on these recordings.

Documentation materials include a log of the
Broadside tapes,
correspondence, and tape notes. The
Broadside tape log is a list
of the tapes in their original order. Several of the original tapes were missing from
the
Broadside offices. Correspondence and tape notes consist of materials
included in the original tape boxes. Correspondence includes personal letters to Cunningham
and
Friesen from friends and contributors. Tape notes contain track listings of songs,
dates of
performances, and names of performers. The
Broadside tape log,
correspondence, and tape notes have been separated to the SFC field notes vertical
files for
preservation.

Sound recordings consist of open reel tapes and audio cassettes from the offices of
Broadside. Many of the recordings were made in Sis
Cunningham and Gordon Friesen's apartment on an inexpensive
Revere open reel tape recorder supplied by Pete Seeger. The recordings
were used to transcribe topical folk songs for publication in
Broadside. Additional recordings include demo tapes, live concert performances, and
interviews, which were sent to the
Broadside offices by
friends, folk singers, and subscribers.

Side 2.1. "HUAC," Pete
Seeger. WDCR Broadcast, Dartmouth
College, Handover, N.H. A story about Pete
Seeger and his recent trial with a taped statement that includes two
performances, "Midnight Special," and "If Judge Murphy Had Let Me Sing In Court"; also includes a
performance of "Bells of Rhymney" recorded at the
Newport Folk Festival in 1959.

Side 1.1. "Lonesome Death of Hattie
Carrole," Bob Dylan. The Steve Allen
Show. February 1964. Dub from television
set. Includes interview and performance.

Side 1.2. "La Bamba," Phil
Ochs. Incomplete.

Side 1.3. "More Good Men Going Down,"
Phil Ochs.

Side 1.4. "These Are Cruel Years,"
Phil Ochs.

Side 1.5. "All Was Silent In the
Land," Phil Ochs.

Side 1.6. "Your Eyes Will Taste of
Flowers," Phil Ochs.

Side 1.7. "Here I Am," Phil
Ochs.

Side 1.8. Portion of an audio letter from Pete Seeger.
Concerning the organization of the Newport Folk Festival.

Side 2.1. Phil Ochs categorizes P. F.
Sloan and Barry McGuire's "Eve
of Destruction" and the popularization of topical songs as "10th rate Dylan." He praises "Like a
Rolling Stone" and "Yesterday."

Side 2.2. Continuation of the "Eve of
Destruction" conversation. Ochs, Friesen, and Cunningham question the future of the
Top 40 after songs like "Eve of Destruction." Ochs
declares that "The Times They Are A-Changin'" would make
a great single.

Side 2.3. Friesen asks whether the music or lyrics of a song is more important to
the public. Ochs praises Bob Dylan for writing music that enhances
lyrics. Ochs comments on the temptation of using rock music to expand his
popularity.

Side 2.4. Discussion of
Highway 61 Revisited. Ochs
praises it as Dylan reaching a new level.

Side 2.5. Discussion of Dylan's poetry. Discussion of whether Dylan's music is
just a device that he uses to distribute poetry. Ochs thinks Dylan might have gone
too far
in his poetry.

Side 2.6. Ochs predicts that it will not be long until Dylan may not be welcome
as a musical performer due to the expanding seriousness of his subject matter. Ochs
predicts that Dylan will turn to acting in movies.

Side 2.7. There is a general discussion of the popularity of the
Beatles and Dylan. Ochs feels that the Beatles
are more youth oriented while Dylan is more confrontational. General discussion of
Dylan's
audience.

Side 2.8. They discuss Dylan reaching a world audience. There is a general
discussion of the difference in audiences in America,
England, and Canada. There is a discussion about
how Dylan feels about the music of Phil Ochs. Ochs reveals how he
deals with Dylan's criticism of his music.

Side 2.9. Ochs defends the "social realism" in
his music. Discussion of social realism in the music of Dylan. Discussion of the label
"protest" being used to describe music.

Side 2.4. Interview with Phil Ochs. Ochs speaks of his
musical history and states his personal objectives for his future career in music.
Ochs
discusses the expansion of the song form. Ochs states his issues with American foreign
policy. Ochs speaks against the Vietnam War. Ochs discusses his song
"Changes." He says it led him into a new kind of
songwriting.

Side 2.5. "Changes," Phil
Ochs.

Side 2.6. "Flower Lady,"
Phil Ochs.

Side 2.7. Interview with Phil Ochs. Ochs answers questions
from students. Ochs comments on voting and elections, evading the draft, the domino
theory,
the Beatles, and Brian Wilson. Ochs says that the
value of his writing is greater than his playing and singing. Ochs reveals how he
feels
about people who want to fight in the war.

Side 2.8. "Power and Glory,"
Phil Ochs.

Side 2.9. "Power and Glory,"
Anita Bryant. Dub.

Side 2.10. Interview with Phil Ochs. Ochs comments on the
Anita Bryant recording and "Crucifixion."

Side 2.11. "Crucifixion,"
Phil Ochs.

Side 2.12. Interview with Phil Ochs. Ochs says that he is
not concerned with who killed Kennedy; instead, he is captivated by
the public reaction to the assassination. He feels that the public is fascinated with
the
act of mourning for Kennedy.

Side 1.2. Sis Cunningham and Pete
Seeger speak about the definition of "Topical
Song." Bob Dylan speaks about songwriting.

Side 1.3. "Ballad of Donald White,"
Bob Dylan.

Side 1.4. Pete Seeger discusses the Almanac
Singers and the significance of
Broadside
magazine.

Side 1.5. "I Can See a New Day,"
Pete Seeger.

Side 1.6. Gil Turner discusses the purpose of
Broadside magazine. There is a group discussion of song origins.
"Billy Sol," a work in progress, is performed by the
group. There is a group discussion of song subjects.

Side 1.7. "The Shelter Song,"
Gil Turner.

Side 1.8. Group discussion of the lifespan and purpose of the topical
song.

Side 1.9. "The Death of Emmett Till,"
Bob Dylan.

Side 1.10. Pete Seeger discusses character development in
songs and song subjects.

Side 1.11. "I Want to Go to Andorra,"
Pete Seeger.

Side 1.12. Pete Seeger discusses the goals of
Broadside magazine and gives advice to aspiring
songwriters.

Side 1.13. "Blowin' in the Wind,"
Bob Dylan with Pete Seeger, Gil
Turner, and Sis Cunningham.

Side 1.8. Larry Estridge speaking in between songs. A second
introduction of Larry Estridge.

Side 1.9. Unidentified song. Larry Estridge.

Side 1.10. Agnes Friesen. As a child, talking with
Sis Cunningham and Gordon Friesen. Sis
Cunningham and Agnes Friesen sing and recite "The Frozen Logger," "Skip
to My Lou," "Three Blind
Mice," "Jack and Jill," "Hickory Dickery Dock," "How Much Is That Doggie in the Window," "Ticky Ticky Tombo," "Ten Little Monkeys
Jumping on the Bed (beginning with 5)," "Go
Under the Table," "The Farmer in the
Dell," "The ABC Song," and "Jingle Bells."

Side 1. A discussion of musicians associated with
Broadside magazine; the conversation is mainly about Bob
Dylan.The interview begins with a discussion of the
Broadside #31 (September 1963) reprint of a
Bob Dylan interview. Friesen reads the article out loud and tries to
show that this interview is "straight-forward"
Dylan; in other words, he gives real answers to the interviewer's questions. Friesen
and
Cunningham claim that Dylan echoed views similar to those expressed in the printed
interview during their meetings with Dylan in the early 1960s. They discuss the change in Dylan's subject matter and ask the question:
Why did he abandon the topical song? Cohen suggests that he may have
"grown out" of the "topical folk
song" style; Cunningham and Friesen disagree. Friesen maintains that Dylan changed
his style to obtain a more "sophisticated" college
audience. Friesen interprets "Maggie's Farm" as a
commentary on capitalism. Cunningham suggests that Dylan's new style forces his audience
to
interpret his works, rather than handing them the ideas "on a
plate." There is a discussion concerning the mixing of abstraction and frankness
within Dylan's subject matter. Friesen calls "Desolation
Row" a commentary on capitalism. Friesen says that Dylan's poetry is of a much
higher quality than his musicianship, he then calls him the "best
of the
Broadside songwriters." The group interprets
"Desolation Row." Friesen says that it is a
prophesy of 1970s politics.
Cohen raises other interpretations. Friesen offers a line-by-line
interpretation of "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands," which
he also views as a commentary on capitalism. Friesen recalls a long list of American
artists (men and women) who did not reach their potential; this is said to be the
meaning
of the line "where the sad eyed prophet says that no man
comes." Cohen suggests (and Friesen agrees) that Dylan
is still a revolutionary; he has changed his musical and lyrical style but managed
to
retain the same subject matter of his early topical songs.

Side 2. A discussion of musicians associated with
Broadside magazine; the conversation is mainly about Bob
Dylan. Friesen and Cunningham recall suggesting topical material to songwriters,
especially Peter La Farge. They discuss the predominance of men in the
published pages of
Broadside. This grows to a discussion of
the struggle of women to achieve success in the fields of both literature and the
music.
The discussion turns to Nina Simone and her song "Mississippi Goddam." The question is raised as to who is more
influential to modern writers: Woody Guthrie or Bob
Dylan. The group discusses Peter La Farge and his
Native American background as well as other singer-songwriters who have
Native American backgrounds. Friesen calls the last five or six
Bob Dylan albums, with the clear exception of the single "George Jackson," fluff. According to Friesen, the last great
Dylan album is
John Wesley Harding. Friesen recites the
lyrics to "John Wesley Harding" and provides an
interpretation of the song. According to Friesen the song is about the government.
Friesen
provides a similar reading of "As I Went Out One
Morning." Friesen recalls a story about Josh Dunson
and his disappointment with the way the Dylanspoke to the crowd at a communist rally
where
he (Dylan) received the "Tom Paine" award. There is a
discussion of "All Along the Watchtower." According to
Friesen none of Dylan's corporate contacts understand his artistic vision, especially
Albert Grossman. Friesen discusses "I Pity
the Poor Immigrant," calling it an anti-Vietnam song. In a discussion of "The Wicked Messenger," Friesen says, "aside from his songs and his poetry and his writings (Dylan) has
always been inarticulate - except for that first interview." Friesen
interprets "The Wicked Messenger" as Dylan's commentary
on following in Woody Guthrie's footsteps. "I'll Be Your Baby Tonight" is, according to Friesen, Dylan proclaiming that he
plans to give in to the capitalist system with his next album,
Nashville Skyline. The discussion returns to "Sad Eyed
Lady of the Lowlands," Cohen wonders how many
college age people actually interpret the song as Friesen does.

Side 1.2. Interview with Matt McGinn.
McGinn very briefly discusses and sings part of "Manyura Manya." He says that the song is about the transport
revolution that has transformed Glasgow into a "one horse town."

Side 1.1. Mike Millius
interview.Millius provides biographical information about his
childhood and family. He talks about growing up in Queens and
traveling to Mexico after dropping out of high school.
Millius recalls having no interest in college and becoming interested
in writing poetry. He calls his writing "simple and
uncluttered" and attributes these qualities to his lack of a college education.
Friesen recalls his introduction to folk music on WLS radio from
Chicago. They discuss the musician Oscar
Brand.

Side 1.2. Dub of radio program.

Side 2.1. Mike Millius
interview.Millius and Friesen talk about the Newport Jazz
Festival in 1958, specifically the riots.
Millius discusses the first song he wrote, "Clancy, He's a Real Good Cop."
Millius cites Woody Guthrie as an influence. He
says that modern songwriters "inspire" him instead of "influencing" him. Millius discusses "Ballad of Martin Luther King" and "Algiers Motel." Friesen and Millius discuss the
war. Millius praises the influence of Woodstock;
he says that songs are becoming more topical and the Edie Gormet and
Robert Goulet types are dying out. Millius
predicts that topical songs will become more popular as "newspapers continue to let us down." Millius states that he believes that Dylan has
already written his best music. Millius describes much of modern music
as "non-songs," songs that are about nothing in particular,
and specifically cites the Band as a group that writes "non-songs." Millius says that he
doesn't understand the phrase "power to the people"; he
says that prefers the phrase "power to the person."

Side 1.1. Interview. Ochs predicts that Nixon will be
impeached and revels in the fact that, whatever happens, "the
damage has been done" to the government. Ochs states that more attention should be
paid to the criminal activity of John Mitchell and others who had
knowledge of the Watergate scandal. Ochs says that the choice of
Elliot Richardson to investigate the crime is wrong. There is display
of general disgust with Nixon, American politics, and the future of
the presidency.

Side 1.2. "Here's to the State of Richard
Nixon," Phil Ochs.

Side 1.3. Interview. Ochs talks about his travels around the world. He focuses on
South American politics. Ochs portrays the South
American political climate as much more volatile than that of the
United States. He tells stories of being arrested and harassed for
being a radical. Ochs briefly discusses music in South America. The
interview concludes with a discussion of religious funding in South
America.

Side 1.1. Ochs gives a preface to the following interview. He says that he will
comment on his former views of Dylan, stated in the 1965 interview. Dylan's astronomical growth, "Eve of
Destruction," etc.

Side 1.2. Commentary. Reynolds speaks of a recent trip to
New York; she feels that New York is too
crowded. This crowding is a problem for two reasons: people don't have to leave their
building and the children do not have a proper sense of comfort. She hopes more people
will
move to the west coast. Reynolds talks about the origin and purpose of
Broadside. Reynolds says that she turned down an offer from Seeger
to start
Broadside. She speaks of Sis
Cunningham and Gordon Friesen and their living situation.
She praises the "Friesens" for their dedication to
Broadside; she says they get "too little
support." Reynolds says that many of the people who were made famous through
appearing in
Broadside have now turned their back on the
publication. She says that the commercial record industry would like to see
Broadside fail. Yet, if
Broadside
failed the industry would suffer. She speaks of the "underground
press." Reynolds makes a lengthy plea for the support of
Broadside.

Side 1.5. Reynolds Speaks. She talks about a peace
conference in Vancouver, B.C. She recalls being on a television show
in British Columbia where she was given ten minutes to write a song,
"Skagit Valley Forever."

Side 1.6. "Skagit Valley Forever,"
Malvina Reynolds. Reynolds gives some follow up
information on what has happened to the Skagit Valley since she wrote
the song. She also talks about a song called "Seventy
Miles" that tells a similar story about the San Francisco
Bay.

Side 2.4. Spoken tribute. Nancy Schimmel (Malvina's
Daughter). She talks about how Reynolds found solace from the difficulties of the
1950s in
the Unitarian Church. Schimmel introduces
Steven Fritchman and sings one verse of "I
Don't mind Failing."

Side 2.5. Eulogy. Steven Fritchman (Unitarian minister).

Side 2.6. "You Can't Make a Turtle Come
Out," Ray Bierl.

Side 2.7. "I Believe If I Lived My Life
Again," Ray Bierl.

Side 2.8. "A Little Muscle,"
Janet Smith.

Side 2.9. "Looking For a Man,"
Janet Smith.

Side 2.10. "When I Was a Boy in
Brooklyn," Gary Lapow.

Side 2.11. "The City of New Orleans,"
Steve Goodman.

Side 2.12. "Young Moon,"
Steve Goodman.

Side 2.13. A short spoken history of Malvina Reynolds.
Michael Cooney.

Side 1. Friesen and Weberman discuss the Joan
Baez
Any Day Now album, an album of
Dylan covers. Weberman feels that Baez understands some of the songs, which are, in
turn,
successful. Other songs, like the material from
John Wesley
Harding
, are not understood by Baez and, therefore, unsuccessful. They discuss the
Basement Tapes. Weberman talks about Dylan's "clues." Weberman interprets "Dear
Landlord" as being about him, and says that it is silly for Baez to sing it. There
is general discussion of Weberman's take on specific cuts on the album. Weberman comments
on Dylan having the capacity for writing nasty lyrics. Weberman comments on songs
being
written about Joan Baez. Weberman interprets "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" as a song about
America. Weberman characterizes "Sad Eyed
Lady of the Lowlands" as a negative song and questions Baez for choosing it because
she has been quoted as saying that she didn't want to record any of Dylan's mean songs.
Weberman performs a line-by-line analysis of "Sad Eyed Lady of
the Lowlands." Weberman offers a general criticism of the Baez album. Weberman
provides an analysis of the meaning behind the lyrics in "You
Ain't Goin' Nowhere." There is a subsequent discussion of "Restless Farewell." Weberman claims to have listened to this
song 1700 times, and he says that he still can't make sense of it.

Side 2. Weberman talks about how Dylan's poetry has changed. Weberman provides an
analysis of the lyrics of "John Wesley Harding." He
interprets the song as being about Dylan (Dylan is Harding). He cites "Harding" as an example of Dylan's "new poetry." Weberman comments on other tracks included on
John Wesley Harding. Weberman feels that popular music is lacking; he then says
that there are two types of criticism: his criticism and everyone else's. Weberman
says
that critics need to specialize on specific artists that use irony. Weberman talks
about
steps that a critic needs to take in order to properly interpret Dylan's songs. He
lists
listening, reading, and an understanding of drug nomenclature. Weberman says that
Dylan's
change in style is representative of a diverging lifestyle. There is a long discussion
of
the change in Dylan, the motorcycle accident, etc. The interview concludes with a
textual
analysis of "Quinn the Eskimo."

Side 1. Interview. Friesen begins the interview by recalling Ochs's feeling that
the standards in the recording industry have dropped since 1965. Ochs recalls his position, both by remembering his 1965 comments and recalling how he felt during the 1965 interview. According to Ochs, there is a direct
correlation between the decline of music and the overall decline of the nation. Ochs
cites
Dylan's
Blonde On Blonde, Donovan's
Sunshine Superman, and Tim Hardin's
first album as examples of what he considers to be a peak in the output of the music
industry. Ochs talks about the excitement "on the street" in 1965 and he claims that the aesthetic is much different in 1968. Ochs discusses the spread of the folk revival through
the Midwest and to the West Coast. Ochs discusses the San Francisco
movement, the Monterey Pop Festival, etc. Ochs discusses communal art
verses private agony. He says that the music that was a result of the San
Francisco movement was based on the idea communal art which is difficult to
reproduce on recordings. Ochs compares this with the New York
movement, which is based on the private feelings of artists. Ochs feels that the music
from
the New York movement has much greater potential. Ochs turns to a
discussion of the death of radio in 1958. He believes
that this is when the first wave of Rock and Roll became commercialized and was no
longer
able to provoke ideas. He attributes the birth of the folk revival to this death of
rock.
Next, according to Ochs, was the movement in which songwriters from the Midwest moved
to
New York. This set the stage for the protest song movement. Ochs
feels that the next important milestone in the topical song lineage is the entrance
of
Dylan in 1965. He sees a parallel between the current
time (1968) and the original death of rock (in
1958). Ochs feels that record companies are
de-legitimizing this once revolutionary style, introduced by Bob Dylan
and the Byrds in 1965, by
supporting similar sounding groups that have a higher commercial value and less to
offer in
terms of content. In other words, in 1968 there are
few bands that have an artistic leg to stand on. Ochs speaks about psychedelic groups;
he
describes them as emblematic of the confusion in modern music. He says that Dylan
is now
operating on a low level of lyric writing and his early style has not been equaled
or
surpassed. Ochs makes a comparison between older and more recent John
Wayne movies. He says that technology has taken over these movies at the cost of
quality. He says that the difference between these John Wayne movies is similar to
the
difference between older and more modern music. The recent death of three astronauts
serves
as another example of how modern society has changed. "The
climate for creating seems to sink lower and lower every day," says Ochs. Ochs
states that commercial releases of musical recordings are important because of their
accessibility; they are much cheaper to make and distribute than books or movies.
In this
way, according to Ochs, a recording is a better vehicle for the dissemination of ideas.
Friesen asks why this musical modernization is taking place and makes a case that
music is
suffering due to a lack of formalized criticism. Friesen cites examples of Irwin
Silber condemning Dylan, and Paul Elson praising Dylan.
Ochs agrees that the lack of good criticism is a problem; he calls Bob
Shelton a publicizer and one of the crowd. Ochs chronicles a second wave of
criticism, mainly referring to
Crawdaddy Magazine, and says
that many of these critics are do not maintain an effective critical stance from their
subject matter. Friesen asks about the need for self-criticism in artists. He asks
Ochs
about Dylan turning his back on the topical song movement. There is a long discussion
of
Dylan and his future artistic path. Ochs changes the subject to the movement moving
to the
West Coast, specifically to the Warner Brothers record label. Ochs
talks about how the move to California may affect the music. There is
a discussion of Ochs's disappointment with Elektra records and the New
York record companies, in general. Friesen says that Ochs is one of only two
singers, Tom Paxton being the other, that hasn't sold out. Ochs
insists that he has sold out - with the
Pleasures of the
Harbor
album. Ochs says that he and Judy Collins have sold out
by going classical. According to Ochs, his new album is an attempt to make the music
match
the quality of his standard for lyric writing. Ochs says that he attempted to make
the
music of "Crucifixion" chaotic in order to reflect the
subject matter of assassination. Similarly, "In a Small Circle
of Friends" is about "the disregard for human life"
and "the unreal", and a honky-tonk piano is used to
represent this. Ochs says that his next album is going to be about the spiritual decline
of
America, he plans to bring the words to the foreground of these new
songs. Ochs speaks of the reception of the
Pleasures of the
Harbor
album. He talks about his poetry. Friesen asks about the influence of
Woody Guthrie and asks Ochs to speak about the tribute to Guthrie at
Carnegie Hall. Ochs recalls that he was upset by not being asked to
be involved in the Guthrie tribute as well as the Newport Movie. Ochs
talks about the new writers on the scene, viewing them as small businessmen instead
of
creative artists.

Side 2.1. German song. "Soldat, Soldat."

Side 2.2. German song.

Side 2.3. Interview. Izzy Young asks about folksinger
presence at the Chicago Democratic National Convention. Ochs says that
most folk singers are scared and do not see publicity potential, so they do not go.
Young
asks about Ochs's performance in Chicago. They talk about
Country Joe and the Fish. Young asks general questions about the
convention. Ochs says that the "black" presence was much
stronger than usual. Ochs discusses his feelings about the state of the country. Young
and
Ochs discuss the Chicago mayor Richard Daley and
his role in controlling the convention. They question McCarthy and
McGovern for not speaking out. They discuss the validity of the
election and who to vote for. Ochs claims that he is thinking of leaving the country
because he is so disgusted in the government. Young firmly argues that leaving the
country
doesn't help; he says that it is running away from the problem. They discuss possible
places to live that would be more desirable than the United States.
They talk about Mao and his actions foreshadowing those that have been
recently happening in America. The discussion turns to
Newport. They discuss American resistance or
revolution. Young asks about Yugoslavia, and wonders whether or not
America may echo their revolution. They discuss specific politicians
and Ochs champions Robert Kennedy. Young argues against
Robert Kennedy. Ochs is stuck on the "problem of America," he wonders if it can ever be solved. Young asks about the role
of songs in the current political movement. Young asks about Dylan as "a secret revolutionary." They disagree about whether being a
secret revolutionary is possible. [A transcription of this interview is included in
the
Folkway Records release FH-5321].

Side 1. Interview. Friesen asks about Ochs's 1965 predictions. The interview is interrupted several times by under-dubbed
music. There is a discussion of technology and how easy it is to get a message across
through the recorded medium. As an example, Ochs cites the album
Songs of the Algierian Revolution verses the film
The
Battle of Algiers
. There is a discussion of corruption of the music industry in
1955 by Dick Clark and others.
Ochs recalls how, after this corruption, folk music stepped into the space left by
rock.
Ochs claims that this corruption eventually found its way into the folk revival. According
to Ochs, everybody wanted to be the Beatles or Bob
Dylan. Ochs speaks of artists "going classical"
by adding instrumentation to their records verses the common notion of folk musicians
leaving their roots by "going rock." Ochs discusses his
critical stance; he claims that he has seen all of the music around him, including
his own,
flounder. Ochs discusses an argument with Dylan at the Kettle of Fish.
Ochs talks about Dylan's downfall, comparing him with Michelangelo.
Ochs discusses the unfair positive reviews of Dylan and cites the critic Richard
Goldstein as an example of a non-objective reviewer. Ochs wishes Dylan well; he
offers hope that Dylan's great writing will return. The subject turns to the assassination
of John Kennedy. Ochs discusses his fear of death when performing. He
discusses the way drugs have changed the vibe of the musical community. Ochs discusses
the
mass flight from the Elektra and Vanguard record
companies. There is a general discussion of record companies and Ochs's leaving
Elektra for A& M. Ochs offers praise for
Moe Ashe. Ochs discusses a past conflict with
Elektra that arose when the record company attempted to release a
fourth Phil Ochs record without his approval. Ochs talks about
Warner buying all of the folkies.

Side 2. Interview. Ochs talks about how the smaller record companies like
Elektra and Vanguard are starting to act more
and more like the giants. There is a long discussion of the Doors and
Jack Holzman. Ochs speaks about not being asked to appear in the
Woody Guthrie Tribute at Carnegie
Hall. He describes sitting through the concert and being upset through the whole
thing. He claims that it is possible that Woody Guthrie wouldn't have
been invited to sing in his own tribute. He also mentions the Newport Folk
Festival movie. He talks about Jim Garrison on the
Tonight Show. Ochs considers the downfall of pop music a metaphor
for the downfall of the country. He says that America is being burned
alive like Virgil Grisham, the astronaut who was recently killed. Ochs
discusses John Wayne; how he turned from making movies about real
people to
The Green Berets, which was made in cooperation
with the government. He says that this is all symptomatic of the death of the nation.
Friesen looks for optimism, citing the author Theodore Dreiser's idea
that after a death there is always a beginning. Ochs says, "I
feel myself standing in ruins." Cunningham introduces the idea of the black power
movement, and cites Bernice Johnson Reagon and Rev.
Frederick Douglass Kirkpatrick. She asks if Ochs considers them a new
direction in topical songwriting. Ochs lambastes this type of songwriting, saying
that they
may only be viewed as a prelude to a potentially greater thing. Ochs says that the
artist
should be egocentric. Ochs comments that most of the ideas conveyed in topical songs
have
never been converted to action. He says that the next wave of topical thought may
not
happen in the form of songs. He devalues the form of song and says that it doesn't
matter
what the next form of communication turns out to be, as long as it conveys the right
kind
of ideas. Ochs specifically cites Richard Goldstein's article on
Bob Dylan as fraudulent. Ochs is disappointed with the growth of
Electra Records. Ochs says that it may be in his better interest to
not say anything but he feels compelled to do so. Friesen asks about the future of
Dylan,
citing
John Wesley Harding as a halfway folk album. Ochs
says that the politics in Dylan's music don't matter nearly as much as the life force.
Ochs
says that this life force has not been on the last two albums, and this is what matters
most to him. Ochs is worried that Dylan is receiving unqualified praise for bad music,
and
this is not helping him.

Side 1.1. Interview. Background talking, putting a record on the turntable,
getting a guitar out of the case, etc. Ochs is strumming the guitar. Ochs talks about
a
concert at Belleview mental ward. Ochs complains of not having a
singing voice. After much conversation they listen to "Power and
the Glory."

Side 1.2. "The Power and the Glory." Dub. With
background talking and noise that is barely audible.

Side 1.3. Interview. Ochs is intoxicated and hardly able to speak. He speaks
casually about his mental state and about life and death. Ochs strums and talks. He
talks
about Phil Ochs in the third person; he says that he killed himself
with alcohol. He talks about Victor Jara and Muhammad
Ali. He is intent on defining his alter ego, Train. He
speaks of Train's activities, implying that these are things that Ochs would not do.
Ochs
talks about Ramsey Clark and George
Wallace.

Side 1.4. Interview. More discussion of Clark and Wallace, and Muhammad Ali. Ochs
discusses drinking and alcoholism. He talks about trying to become friends with Dylan.
He
asks the interviewer for money and says he needs to go to the Commodore
Hotel.

Side 1.5. "The Ballad of Sonny Liston (The Invisible
Punch)."

Side 1.6. Interview. More rambling. Ochs and the interviewer prepare to
leave.

1.7. Pete Seeger dictation to Sis
Cunningham, part 1.
Sing Out! Columns.Tape begins
mid-letter. (1) A letter about folk singing and guitar playing at summer camps; this
letter
focuses on the importance of libraries in learning folksongs. (2) An extra paragraph
to
attach to a previous letter (with a Mark Twain quote; the paragraph pertains to making
up
words. (3) A letter from Johnny Appleseed, Jr., about Vivian
Richman singing at Duquesne University. (4) A note to
Irwin Silber pertaining to a letter from Lee
Hays ("The Newfangled Hays System Unreadable Version
of Music"). (5) A letter from Johnny Appleseed, Jr., about
writers aiming to be published instead of expressing themselves. (6) A letter from
Johnny Appleseed, Jr., about John Cohen
reporting on Joan O'Brien at the University of
Wichita.

Side 2.1. Pete Seeger dictation to Sis
Cunningham, part 2.
Sing Out! Columns. [1963?]. (1) A new paragraph for the "making up words" column pertaining to inspiration in poetry. (2) A letter to
Tony Davis thanking him for using his piece on Woody
Guthrie and giving him a tip on where to find more information on Guthrie
(
London Times November
1961). (3) A letter from Johnny Appleseed, Jr., about
Bob Dylan recording in Nashville and being asked
to reduce his participation in the performance. (4) A letter from Johnny
Appleseed, Jr., about Wynn Strackey (Old Towne
School of Folk Music, Chicago) developing a new kind of
get-together called a "gatherall." (5) A note to
Irwin Silber: Seeger wants Dick Chase to
transcribe a tape recording of one of his performances. (6) A letter from Johnny
Appleseed, Jr.: An introduction to previously written article (attach to
Wynn Strackey's letter). (7) A letter from Johnny
Appleseed, Jr., about copyrighting songs, or not copyrighting songs if you keep
your run small. (8) A note to Irwin Silber permitting him to choose
only the material he wants for Johnny Appleseed, Jr., column. (9) A
letter from Johnny Appleseed, Jr., remembering a conversation with
Harry Barnhart about community choruses. (10) A memo to
Irwin Silber about a collection of children's songs that
Harold Leaventhal has. Seeger wants
Sing
Out!
to write a story about it. (11) A letter from Johnny Appleseed,
Jr., about "Why are folksingers liberal?" This
is about singers making money (or not making money). (12) A letter to Irwin
Silber about printing a story called "Folk Music on
16mm Film." Also concerning a possible folk music film festival in New
York City. (13) A new introduction to "Folk Music on
16mm Film." This concerns putting the article together and looking for films to
combine into an article (there were too many films to account for). An addendum about
reviews. An epilogue inviting readers to send information about 16mm films. Instructions
to
send carbon copies and a cover letter to Tom Brandon.

Side 1.11. "Mercy Was the Last Thing On My
Mind," Unidentified artist.

Side 1.12. "Bottle of Wine,"
Tom Paxton.

Side 2. Pete Seeger dictation to Sis
Cunningham. 7 December 1964. (1)
Mid-letter to Dina Hersch about a statue of Woody
Guthrie and Ledbelly. (2) A letter to Bruce
Jackson (Harvard Society of Fellows) thanking him for the
tape. Seeger suggests that one of the songs may be printed in
Sing
Out!
. This letter also mentions a film, a Newport Folk
Festival grant and Nagra tape machines. (3) A letter to Maurice
McCracken about writing letters to folksingers; Seeger suggests that he write
letters to other folksingers. (4) A letter to Henry Wilcox thanking
him for a log and color photographs (sailing). General information about the Seeger
family
and their well-being. (5) A letter to Wynn Strackey apologizing for
not getting the letter in about the "gatheralls." (6) A
letter to Photographic Enterprises Guild inquiring about a cardboard
frame for photographs. (7) A letter to Sally Goldin: Seeger sends his
regrets about not being able to sing for her group. (8) A letter to Harold
Leventhal: Seeger is looking for a place to sing for a large group of campers
in upstate New York.

Side 1.18. Pete Seeger dictation to Sis
Cunningham. Seeger discusses a trip around the world with his
family.

Side 2.1. "Thirsty Boots,"
Eric Andersen. Spoken chord progression.

Side 2.2. "That's What I Hear," Unidentified
artist.

Side 2.3. "The Winds and the Rain and the
Years," Unidentified artist.

Side 2.4. ["Friendship Song,"] Unidentified
artist.

Side 2.5. "Now That Our Battle Is Known,"
Unidentified artist.

Side 2.6. "How Can You Be So Blind?"
Tom Parrott.

Side 2.7. "I Love You All,"
Tom Parrott.

Side 2.8. "Many Windowed Night," Tom
Parrott.

Side 2.9. Pete Seeger dictation to Sis
Cunningham. (1) The end of a letter to Paul Nelson. (2) A
letter to Chester Williams thanking him for the Christmas card and
photos. (3) Seeger forwards a talking blues song called "The
Silent Guilty Ones" to Cunningham for consideration. (4) A Letter to
Steven Copeland about guitar guides. (5) Seeger instructs Cunningham
to send a dollar to the Museum of Modern Art in New
York to buy the catalog for the exhibit "Architecture
Without Architects."

Side 1.1. Pete Seeger dictation to Sis
Cunningham. (1) A letter to Michelle Bain about her playing
the banjo. (2) Seeger forwards a song called the "Talking
Torrance Blues" and suggests that Cunningham print it in
Broadside. (3) Seeger requests that Cunningham send a paragraph to
Mickey Miller about Topanga. (4) Seeger talks about the name
Broadside. (5) Seeger asks about two recent copies of the
Little Sandy Review. (6) Seeger dictates a note to
LSR about the Alan Lomax series, specifically the
song "Rosianne."

Side 1.2. Pete Seeger. Dictation to Sis
Cunningham. (1) A letter to Tom Brandon about a proposed
Leadbelly movie. Seeger also talks about the proposed folk film
festival. (2) Letter to Taylor Sloan (Carbon to Tom
Brandon) about the movie
A Man Called Leadbelly.
(3) Script Outline - "1st Draft, A Man Called Leadbelly."
Seeger develops his ideas about the script while speaking on the tape. (Carbon to
Brandon
and Harold Leaventhal).

Side 1.1. Pete Seeger. Dictation to Sis
Cunningham. (1) A letter to Carlton B. Goodlett thanking
him for his letter. (2) A letter to Harold Newman thanking him for
sending his folksong collection. (3) Seeger submits the "Stay At
Home Talking Blues." (4) A letter to Kandee Trefil,
University of Illinois, commenting on a paper that she sent. Seeger
suggests that she should submit a paragraph to
Sing Out!.
(5) A letter to Neal Campbell about his grandfather's version of the
"Old Orange Flute." (6) A note to Irwin
Silber suggesting that he print the "Old Orange
Flute."

Side 1.2. Seeger submits a song called "Business." 2 takes.

Side 1.3. Dictation. (1) A note to Walter about the song
"Business." (2) A letter to Rory
McCewen in regard to verses that he sent to Seeger. Seeger gives advice about
how to start touring the United States. (3) A letter to
Norman Dorsen thanking him for the articles. (4) A letter to
Gerald Guillementt thanking him for the letter. (5) A letter to
Chet Williams regarding Seeger's trip to
Australia and Chet's banjo. (6) A letter to William
Holder: Seeger asks him to record himself playing banjo and send it to him. (7)
A letter to Roy Guest: Seeger answers questions posed in a previous
letter. (8) A letter to Sarah Gunning. (9) A letter to
Genive Fox thanking her for sending addresses of women around the
world. (10) A sample letter to show to Harold Leventhal. (11) A letter
introducing himself to women around the world in preparation for his future trip.
(12) A
letter to Matt McGinn: a note apologizing for not being able to come
to Edinburgh. (13) A letter to Wally Hilly.
Seeger apologizes for not seeing him and thanks him for sending him an article on
Cantata.
(14) A post-script to a previous letter to Charles Perdue, Jr.: Seeger
thanks him for sending a tape and compliments him and his wife. (15) A letter to
Parney Hall commenting him on the tape he sent Seeger. Seeger gives
suggestions about improving his performing and songwriting. (16) Seeger sings "Train of Life." (17) Seeger submits two tapes: "Christmas Island Blues" and a song by Leslie
Hayworth. (18) Seeger sings both songs to Cunningham. (19) Seeger asks about
and sings "Alder Maston." (20) Seeger suggests that
Broadside publish a peace songbook. (21) A letter to
Frank Leicht at Channel 13, New
York suggesting a possible discussion program about the revival of folk music.
(22) Letter to Robert B. Sour enclosing lead sheets from soundtracks
that Seeger has worked on in the past several years.

Documentation materials include a book log of the
Broadside tapes,
correspondence, and tape notes. The
Broadside tape log is a
list of the tapes in their original order. Several of the original tapes were missing
from the
Broadside offices. Correspondence and tape notes consist of
materials included in the original tape boxes. Correspondence contains personal letters
to
Sis Cunningham and Gordon Friesen from friends and
contributors. Tape notes contain track listings of songs, dates of performances, and
names of
performers. The
Broadside tape log, correspondence, and tape
notes have been separated to the SFC field notes vertical files for preservation.