Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?

[quote][p][bold]exMark[/bold] wrote:
This is why the M4 Relief Road is MUST HAPPEN[/p][/quote]Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?jerymp

33daverave wrote:
As usual nothing from the Council. They just don't get it , do they ?

The council are not in charge of the M4.

Correct. But you'd think they'd update their webpage or Twitter account to let people know what's happening or a possible timescale.
Remember the possible floods when it took 24 hrs to let residents know what was happening.

[quote][p][bold]Newport Citizen[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]33daverave[/bold] wrote:
As usual nothing from the Council. They just don't get it , do they ?[/p][/quote]The council are not in charge of the M4.[/p][/quote]Correct. But you'd think they'd update their webpage or Twitter account to let people know what's happening or a possible timescale.
Remember the possible floods when it took 24 hrs to let residents know what was happening.33daverave

Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?

Absolutely right. Part of the skill of driving, which is sadly lacking is being aware of others and being able to read the road and foresee problems, not go heading into them like a lemming.

[quote][p][bold]jerymp[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]exMark[/bold] wrote:
This is why the M4 Relief Road is MUST HAPPEN[/p][/quote]Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. Part of the skill of driving, which is sadly lacking is being aware of others and being able to read the road and foresee problems, not go heading into them like a lemming.Dolieboy

as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.

as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.keithbob

as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.

as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.keithbob

keithbob wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.

What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.

[quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.[/p][/quote]What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.Dolieboy

keithbob wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.

What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.

Good point. It could be that some people perceive the lanes to be narrower through the tunnel (although they aren't) as there is no 'spare road' to the sides - just a white line then a tunnel wall. Most other tunnels have at least a metre or so of space between the edge of the road (white line) and tunnel wall. Other than that, the tunnel is on a straight stretch of road and well lit (unlike the Dartford tunnel, M25) so cant really see the reason for random braking. But I cant see the reason for hogging the middle lane either and that happens everywhere all the time so tunnel phobia isnt so surprising.

[quote][p][bold]Dolieboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.[/p][/quote]What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.[/p][/quote]Good point. It could be that some people perceive the lanes to be narrower through the tunnel (although they aren't) as there is no 'spare road' to the sides - just a white line then a tunnel wall. Most other tunnels have at least a metre or so of space between the edge of the road (white line) and tunnel wall. Other than that, the tunnel is on a straight stretch of road and well lit (unlike the Dartford tunnel, M25) so cant really see the reason for random braking. But I cant see the reason for hogging the middle lane either and that happens everywhere all the time so tunnel phobia isnt so surprising.bluebanana

keithbob wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.

What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.

You are quite right but forgot to add that keeping a safe and intelligent distance from the vehicle in front would lessen accidents by an enormous amount.
I would guess that Tailgating is probably the most important cause of serious accidents on motorways

[quote][p][bold]Dolieboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.[/p][/quote]What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.[/p][/quote]You are quite right but forgot to add that keeping a safe and intelligent distance from the vehicle in front would lessen accidents by an enormous amount.
I would guess that Tailgating is probably the most important cause of serious accidents on motorwaysjerymp

Doesn't matter what the cause of the accidents are, if this streach of the motorway is the worst in the country etc etc. The tunnel strech of the motorway just does not have the capacity to cope with the rush hour traffic and newport itself can not cope with the diverted traffic when there is an accident. I don't see what the issue is, and why people still have blinkers on. Something needs to be done simple as. Upgrading the A48 is not the way to go as that suffers from enough accidents itself. The only thing that will achieve an efficent traffic flow now and in the future will be to build a new 3 lane motorway without junctions and leaving the existing m4 as the road for local access. Problem solved, there will be less traffic and therefore less accidents, as most accidents at the moment is down to the fact that there isn't room for errors, any lapse in concentration and thats that you've hit another vehicle because everyone is bunched up, also everyone is stressed out with traffic, trying to get from A 2 B as quickly as possible, it's just common sense. Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution.

Doesn't matter what the cause of the accidents are, if this streach of the motorway is the worst in the country etc etc. The tunnel strech of the motorway just does not have the capacity to cope with the rush hour traffic and newport itself can not cope with the diverted traffic when there is an accident. I don't see what the issue is, and why people still have blinkers on. Something needs to be done simple as. Upgrading the A48 is not the way to go as that suffers from enough accidents itself. The only thing that will achieve an efficent traffic flow now and in the future will be to build a new 3 lane motorway without junctions and leaving the existing m4 as the road for local access. Problem solved, there will be less traffic and therefore less accidents, as most accidents at the moment is down to the fact that there isn't room for errors, any lapse in concentration and thats that you've hit another vehicle because everyone is bunched up, also everyone is stressed out with traffic, trying to get from A 2 B as quickly as possible, it's just common sense. Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution.grumpyandopinionated

Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?

You have to wonder why so many drivers have problems driving safely through 370m of perfectly straight, well lit tunnels. How difficult can it be?

[quote][p][bold]jerymp[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]exMark[/bold] wrote:
This is why the M4 Relief Road is MUST HAPPEN[/p][/quote]Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?[/p][/quote]You have to wonder why so many drivers have problems driving safely through 370m of perfectly straight, well lit tunnels. How difficult can it be?DavidMclean

"Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution"
I`ve seen very many so called `professional drivers` on the motorways driving their 40 ton lorries at 50-60 mph separated from the `professional `driver in front by less than half the length of their vehicle ,they do not have a cat in hells chance of stopping if anything happened.
Too many people drive like idiots and it just takes one idiot to cause chaos.

"Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution"
I`ve seen very many so called `professional drivers` on the motorways driving their 40 ton lorries at 50-60 mph separated from the `professional `driver in front by less than half the length of their vehicle ,they do not have a cat in hells chance of stopping if anything happened.
Too many people drive like idiots and it just takes one idiot to cause chaos.jerymp

Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?

Bad driving your most probably 100 % right, I wish I took a photo being a passenger in car of 2 lorry's on M4 travelling towards Newport Y'sterday, the gap of I would say 6 ft between his cab and the back of the other !
WG should now get on with this motorway as the old one cannot cope with the volume of traffic especially in Peak times..
Im hearing of accidents on a regular basis now (one a week ?)
So with all the money spent on those cameras to control the speed it shows it is not working !!!!!!
But all we hear is hot air and NO action ,so WG just get on with it as the more YOU delay the more Wales is losing in the Economy race of survival !!!! and also the more time in delay getting it built means more and more traffic growth ,I should No I travelled up and down to work back in 1973 on the A48 Newport to Cardiff when we had NO M4 and I saw accidents every week some fatal which I saw many time's..
People don't like public transport as it takes far to long to get from A to B

[quote][p][bold]jerymp[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]exMark[/bold] wrote:
This is why the M4 Relief Road is MUST HAPPEN[/p][/quote]Yes, we do need a new motorway by-pass but again it's not the tunnels or the this particular stretch of badly planned motorway that's to blame it's quite simply bad driving and it could and does happen on any part of the motorway system and once the new by-pass is open inevitably it will will happen on there so what's the answer, duplicate the whole motorway ?[/p][/quote]Bad driving your most probably 100 % right, I wish I took a photo being a passenger in car of 2 lorry's on M4 travelling towards Newport Y'sterday, the gap of I would say 6 ft between his cab and the back of the other !
WG should now get on with this motorway as the old one cannot cope with the volume of traffic especially in Peak times..
Im hearing of accidents on a regular basis now (one a week ?)
So with all the money spent on those cameras to control the speed it shows it is not working !!!!!!
But all we hear is hot air and NO action ,so WG just get on with it as the more YOU delay the more Wales is losing in the Economy race of survival !!!! and also the more time in delay getting it built means more and more traffic growth ,I should No I travelled up and down to work back in 1973 on the A48 Newport to Cardiff when we had NO M4 and I saw accidents every week some fatal which I saw many time's..
People don't like public transport as it takes far to long to get from A to BJonnytrouble

keithbob wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.

What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.

Local people no that one,but I think it is when the sun is in front of you and there is that BLACK HOLE !!!!

[quote][p][bold]Dolieboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]keithbob[/bold] wrote:
as i have commented before,yes bad driving is to blame,but the tunnels are the main course of the problems.three lanes into two and a 50 m.p.h. permament speed limit is a recipe for disaster.worst designed length of motorway on the map.[/p][/quote]What is a major problem is that all of a sudden, people see the tunnels and brake, slowing down to 35 - 40Mph. They exit the tunnels and speed up again. I have been in a truck behind these people and then you lose your speed through the tunnels, causing traffic behind you to slow down. No need to be scared, it's a tunnel and you can do 50mph through it.[/p][/quote]Local people no that one,but I think it is when the sun is in front of you and there is that BLACK HOLE !!!!Jonnytrouble

blah blah blah, problem is too much traffic, solution extra lane, hence why the rest of the network is 3 lanes. Secong problem, no way of adding extra lane through tunnel section. Solution, brand new section of motorway.

You need to spend a day in a truckers cab or even just an hour to appreciate what the driver goes through as the channel 5 program still doesn't cut it. As a truck driver you have to plan so far in advance and car drivers just completly screw with that. I would bet you that the vehicle that was seemingly too close was either about to overtake or has not long been overtaken. Being a lorry driver is all about you against every other vehicle type driver on the road. Nobody understands like a truck driver what the loss of momentum (when waiting to overtake) means. You can be planning to overtake, be looking in your mirrors looking for a gap for a long time before you actually pull out, so you've spotted the gap and you indicate and you pull straight out because you know full well that nobody will let you out and if you wait you loose all your momentum, miss the chance to overtake and then have to build up speed again. When I first drove the lorry I had to stop at the aust services because I thought my indicator bulbs weren't working but they where, having stopped again near reading I decided that it wasn't faulty bulbs but nobody paying attention. So next time you think that that truck driver has just pulled out in from of you without barely a signal, ask yourself if you would have actually let him out. You can bet your left arm that although 3 blinks of the indicator was all you got the guy driving the truck would have been well aware of the situation. If you do get cut up by lorries then why weren't you more aware that there was the potential for the truck to overtake. It's called defensive driving, planning and being prepared for things to happen and the ability to react without panic when the unexpected happens.

blah blah blah, problem is too much traffic, solution extra lane, hence why the rest of the network is 3 lanes. Secong problem, no way of adding extra lane through tunnel section. Solution, brand new section of motorway.
You need to spend a day in a truckers cab or even just an hour to appreciate what the driver goes through as the channel 5 program still doesn't cut it. As a truck driver you have to plan so far in advance and car drivers just completly screw with that. I would bet you that the vehicle that was seemingly too close was either about to overtake or has not long been overtaken. Being a lorry driver is all about you against every other vehicle type driver on the road. Nobody understands like a truck driver what the loss of momentum (when waiting to overtake) means. You can be planning to overtake, be looking in your mirrors looking for a gap for a long time before you actually pull out, so you've spotted the gap and you indicate and you pull straight out because you know full well that nobody will let you out and if you wait you loose all your momentum, miss the chance to overtake and then have to build up speed again. When I first drove the lorry I had to stop at the aust services because I thought my indicator bulbs weren't working but they where, having stopped again near reading I decided that it wasn't faulty bulbs but nobody paying attention. So next time you think that that truck driver has just pulled out in from of you without barely a signal, ask yourself if you would have actually let him out. You can bet your left arm that although 3 blinks of the indicator was all you got the guy driving the truck would have been well aware of the situation. If you do get cut up by lorries then why weren't you more aware that there was the potential for the truck to overtake. It's called defensive driving, planning and being prepared for things to happen and the ability to react without panic when the unexpected happens.grumpyandopinionated

I do have a small amount of sympathy for lorry drivers as I accept its not always easy for you to overtake. But as most lorries are generally within 5mph of each other, often the first us car drivers know of your intention to overtake is the 3 flashes and the hesitant/friendly drift into the middle lane. It is not for us to make assumptions as to your intentions, as who really knows what the 'potential for a truck to overtake' is?! I could say it was 1 truck being really close (too close, usually) to the one in front but as you say, for all we know, the one in front could've just overtaken and moved back to lane 1. A good indication of the potential for a truck to overtake would be the use of indicators, during your 'planning ahead' stage?!

I do have a small amount of sympathy for lorry drivers as I accept its not always easy for you to overtake. But as most lorries are generally within 5mph of each other, often the first us car drivers know of your intention to overtake is the 3 flashes and the hesitant/friendly drift into the middle lane. It is not for us to make assumptions as to your intentions, as who really knows what the 'potential for a truck to overtake' is?! I could say it was 1 truck being really close (too close, usually) to the one in front but as you say, for all we know, the one in front could've just overtaken and moved back to lane 1. A good indication of the potential for a truck to overtake would be the use of indicators, during your 'planning ahead' stage?!bluebanana

jerymp wrote:
&quot;Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution"
I`ve seen very many so called `professional drivers` on the motorways driving their 40 ton lorries at 50-60 mph separated from the `professional `driver in front by less than half the length of their vehicle ,they do not have a cat in hells chance of stopping if anything happened.
Too many people drive like idiots and it just takes one idiot to cause chaos.

I was in the tunnels at the time, why this accident happened was because there was a lorry wheel right in the path of the first lorry, if it was not for his skill in braking and keeping his lorry straight I don't think I would be here today. There is no mention of the wheel in this report, and it was a lorry wheel not just a tyre, not sure if it had come off a lorry that was later seen on the hard shoulder right by the Tredegar Park slip road with his hazards light on. I drive on this stretch of motorway at the same time every morning and yes there are idiots on the road, but in this instance I feel that it could have been a lot worse it the driver had tried to swerve and miss the wheel. Just glad no one was badly injured because the noise it made when the lorry hit the back of him was horrendous.

[quote][p][bold]jerymp[/bold] wrote:
"Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution"
I`ve seen very many so called `professional drivers` on the motorways driving their 40 ton lorries at 50-60 mph separated from the `professional `driver in front by less than half the length of their vehicle ,they do not have a cat in hells chance of stopping if anything happened.
Too many people drive like idiots and it just takes one idiot to cause chaos.[/p][/quote]I was in the tunnels at the time, why this accident happened was because there was a lorry wheel right in the path of the first lorry, if it was not for his skill in braking and keeping his lorry straight I don't think I would be here today. There is no mention of the wheel in this report, and it was a lorry wheel not just a tyre, not sure if it had come off a lorry that was later seen on the hard shoulder right by the Tredegar Park slip road with his hazards light on. I drive on this stretch of motorway at the same time every morning and yes there are idiots on the road, but in this instance I feel that it could have been a lot worse it the driver had tried to swerve and miss the wheel. Just glad no one was badly injured because the noise it made when the lorry hit the back of him was horrendous.Outthere

jerymp wrote:
&quot;Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution"
I`ve seen very many so called `professional drivers` on the motorways driving their 40 ton lorries at 50-60 mph separated from the `professional `driver in front by less than half the length of their vehicle ,they do not have a cat in hells chance of stopping if anything happened.
Too many people drive like idiots and it just takes one idiot to cause chaos.

I was in the tunnels at the time, why this accident happened was because there was a lorry wheel right in the path of the first lorry, if it was not for his skill in braking and keeping his lorry straight I don't think I would be here today. There is no mention of the wheel in this report, and it was a lorry wheel not just a tyre, not sure if it had come off a lorry that was later seen on the hard shoulder right by the Tredegar Park slip road with his hazards light on. I drive on this stretch of motorway at the same time every morning and yes there are idiots on the road, but in this instance I feel that it could have been a lot worse it the driver had tried to swerve and miss the wheel. Just glad no one was badly injured because the noise it made when the lorry hit the back of him was horrendous.

That illustrates exactly the point I've been making . The following lorry was too close not allowing for sufficient braking distance in an emergency stop.
All heavy vehicles should be fitted with speed limiters coupled with forward clearence sensors, the technology is available and the cost would soon be minimal if every new lorry was required to have it.

[quote][p][bold]Outthere[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]jerymp[/bold] wrote:
"Look at the accident today, 2 lorrys collide, these are professional drivers and still managed to have an accident. Fed up of listening to excuses and half assed proposals and the tree hugers down playing the blatantly obvious solution"
I`ve seen very many so called `professional drivers` on the motorways driving their 40 ton lorries at 50-60 mph separated from the `professional `driver in front by less than half the length of their vehicle ,they do not have a cat in hells chance of stopping if anything happened.
Too many people drive like idiots and it just takes one idiot to cause chaos.[/p][/quote]I was in the tunnels at the time, why this accident happened was because there was a lorry wheel right in the path of the first lorry, if it was not for his skill in braking and keeping his lorry straight I don't think I would be here today. There is no mention of the wheel in this report, and it was a lorry wheel not just a tyre, not sure if it had come off a lorry that was later seen on the hard shoulder right by the Tredegar Park slip road with his hazards light on. I drive on this stretch of motorway at the same time every morning and yes there are idiots on the road, but in this instance I feel that it could have been a lot worse it the driver had tried to swerve and miss the wheel. Just glad no one was badly injured because the noise it made when the lorry hit the back of him was horrendous.[/p][/quote]That illustrates exactly the point I've been making . The following lorry was too close not allowing for sufficient braking distance in an emergency stop.
All heavy vehicles should be fitted with speed limiters coupled with forward clearence sensors, the technology is available and the cost would soon be minimal if every new lorry was required to have it.jerymp

grumpyandopinionated wrote:
blah blah blah, problem is too much traffic, solution extra lane, hence why the rest of the network is 3 lanes. Secong problem, no way of adding extra lane through tunnel section. Solution, brand new section of motorway.

You need to spend a day in a truckers cab or even just an hour to appreciate what the driver goes through as the channel 5 program still doesn't cut it. As a truck driver you have to plan so far in advance and car drivers just completly screw with that. I would bet you that the vehicle that was seemingly too close was either about to overtake or has not long been overtaken. Being a lorry driver is all about you against every other vehicle type driver on the road. Nobody understands like a truck driver what the loss of momentum (when waiting to overtake) means. You can be planning to overtake, be looking in your mirrors looking for a gap for a long time before you actually pull out, so you've spotted the gap and you indicate and you pull straight out because you know full well that nobody will let you out and if you wait you loose all your momentum, miss the chance to overtake and then have to build up speed again. When I first drove the lorry I had to stop at the aust services because I thought my indicator bulbs weren't working but they where, having stopped again near reading I decided that it wasn't faulty bulbs but nobody paying attention. So next time you think that that truck driver has just pulled out in from of you without barely a signal, ask yourself if you would have actually let him out. You can bet your left arm that although 3 blinks of the indicator was all you got the guy driving the truck would have been well aware of the situation. If you do get cut up by lorries then why weren't you more aware that there was the potential for the truck to overtake. It's called defensive driving, planning and being prepared for things to happen and the ability to react without panic when the unexpected happens.

Add the fact that, a lot of trucks are governed to different speeds. Tesco 50mph, Morrisons 52mph and Wilkinsons 56mph. Some other hauliers may still be 60mph. Heading eastbound on the M4 a trucker whose vehicle is limited to 50mph may be able to overtake the a faster truck as it may be loaded and struggling up the hill, if the cars will let them out. On the brow of the hill however the truck just overtaken will now be picking up speed and overtake the truck which has just overtaken it. As I approach the junction for the A449 offslip, I look at vehicles which find themselves in that lane, and am always ready to flash them out. On a 3 lane motorway, even with an empty lane 3, cars often don't pull over to allow trucks out, and at roadworks, it's always a thing to overtake everything just before the cones and then do 50mph having made the headway of one vehicle!!

[quote][p][bold]grumpyandopinionated[/bold] wrote:
blah blah blah, problem is too much traffic, solution extra lane, hence why the rest of the network is 3 lanes. Secong problem, no way of adding extra lane through tunnel section. Solution, brand new section of motorway.
You need to spend a day in a truckers cab or even just an hour to appreciate what the driver goes through as the channel 5 program still doesn't cut it. As a truck driver you have to plan so far in advance and car drivers just completly screw with that. I would bet you that the vehicle that was seemingly too close was either about to overtake or has not long been overtaken. Being a lorry driver is all about you against every other vehicle type driver on the road. Nobody understands like a truck driver what the loss of momentum (when waiting to overtake) means. You can be planning to overtake, be looking in your mirrors looking for a gap for a long time before you actually pull out, so you've spotted the gap and you indicate and you pull straight out because you know full well that nobody will let you out and if you wait you loose all your momentum, miss the chance to overtake and then have to build up speed again. When I first drove the lorry I had to stop at the aust services because I thought my indicator bulbs weren't working but they where, having stopped again near reading I decided that it wasn't faulty bulbs but nobody paying attention. So next time you think that that truck driver has just pulled out in from of you without barely a signal, ask yourself if you would have actually let him out. You can bet your left arm that although 3 blinks of the indicator was all you got the guy driving the truck would have been well aware of the situation. If you do get cut up by lorries then why weren't you more aware that there was the potential for the truck to overtake. It's called defensive driving, planning and being prepared for things to happen and the ability to react without panic when the unexpected happens.[/p][/quote]Add the fact that, a lot of trucks are governed to different speeds. Tesco 50mph, Morrisons 52mph and Wilkinsons 56mph. Some other hauliers may still be 60mph. Heading eastbound on the M4 a trucker whose vehicle is limited to 50mph may be able to overtake the a faster truck as it may be loaded and struggling up the hill, if the cars will let them out. On the brow of the hill however the truck just overtaken will now be picking up speed and overtake the truck which has just overtaken it. As I approach the junction for the A449 offslip, I look at vehicles which find themselves in that lane, and am always ready to flash them out. On a 3 lane motorway, even with an empty lane 3, cars often don't pull over to allow trucks out, and at roadworks, it's always a thing to overtake everything just before the cones and then do 50mph having made the headway of one vehicle!!Dolieboy

Lorry and bus drivers have now got to attend 35 hours of training every 5 years sat in a classroom as part of their cpc training.The DSA has made £30 million out of this since 2008. When we the disruption like this cause by accident involving HGVs has caused, I come to the conclusion that all this classroom training is a complete waste of time.

Lorry and bus drivers have now got to attend 35 hours of training every 5 years sat in a classroom as part of their cpc training.The DSA has made £30 million out of this since 2008. When we the disruption like this cause by accident involving HGVs has caused, I come to the conclusion that all this classroom training is a complete waste of time.bugsy93

bugsy93 wrote:
Lorry and bus drivers have now got to attend 35 hours of training every 5 years sat in a classroom as part of their cpc training.The DSA has made £30 million out of this since 2008. When we the disruption like this cause by accident involving HGVs has caused, I come to the conclusion that all this classroom training is a complete waste of time.

So have those who have to pay for it. When you have a driving test, all the lessons are structured towards it and cover things like 3 point turn, emergency stop etc. With CPC training you have to attend 5 modules, which could be diet and healthy eating, manual handling or any other that the training company makes up. Through no fault of my own, I have covered the same subject 3 times. There is no set syllabus. Can you imagine having driving lessons and just covering hill starts for your entire time ?

[quote][p][bold]bugsy93[/bold] wrote:
Lorry and bus drivers have now got to attend 35 hours of training every 5 years sat in a classroom as part of their cpc training.The DSA has made £30 million out of this since 2008. When we the disruption like this cause by accident involving HGVs has caused, I come to the conclusion that all this classroom training is a complete waste of time.[/p][/quote]So have those who have to pay for it. When you have a driving test, all the lessons are structured towards it and cover things like 3 point turn, emergency stop etc. With CPC training you have to attend 5 modules, which could be diet and healthy eating, manual handling or any other that the training company makes up. Through no fault of my own, I have covered the same subject 3 times. There is no set syllabus. Can you imagine having driving lessons and just covering hill starts for your entire time ?Dolieboy