closing loopholes. that is a reputation of whatjohnboehnersuggestedin the days since the president has been re-elected. >> that's totally right. a key point, the simpson-bowles tax idea is kind of a magic pony, right. everyone agrees in the ab instruct, we can bring down the rates, close loopholes and deductions and raise revenue. if that's such a wonderful idea how come it's only come up now. how come no one has done it. the reason is because it's really, really hard politically. once you get into the specifics. if you're trying to tie all the revenue to this abstract tax reform idea you're going to get into a position where the revenue is about never going to happen because once you get into reality it doesn't materialize. >> you have to do both, john. you have to do -- you have to raise the the rates and close loopholes to get the amount -- >> just raise the rates. >> you can't raise the rates high enough to produce $1.6 trillion. >> you can get $900 billion from expiring the bush tax cuts. >> and where do you get the other $700 billion from from. >> do a little reform and cut the r

to figure out the fiscal cliff. isspeakerboehnerreadyto make a deal anytime soon? >>> plus, major news for big business. the justice department hits bp with the biggest criminal penalty ever assessed on a corporation for the 2010 gulf oil spill. >>> and so much for the ideas that twinkies last forever. bankruptcy breaks a big-time baker. >>> good morning from washington. it's friday, november 16, 2012. this is "the daily rundown." i'm luke russert in for chuck todd who hasn't worked hard enough at all this entire election campaign, he's now going to asia to cover the president's trip. former cia director david petraeus will testify in the benghazi attacks before the senate intelligence committee. he just wrapped up testifying on the house side. petraeus' questioning comes as he now finds himself under investigation by the agency he once led. acting director michael morell has ordered the inspector general to investigate whether he used agency resources including security details, private jets, and special accommodations to facilitate his affair with paula broadwell. officials say the c

a split and one of the interesting ways you can follow it has to do with what --johnboehnerversuspaul ryan. boehner is pushing for conference shame, republican congresswoman rogers while ryan is pushing tom price who used to run the conservative caucus in the house. if most of the caucus is getting behind them then it's a sign they'll dig in their heels. if they're going with boehner, it's a sign they'll deal. >> i want to bring in a democrat on both the armed services committee and select committee on intelligence and the fiscal cliff if i might. do you think the republicans will come to play? >> i believe that they will. it's my hope that everyone has gotten the message loud and clear that the american people expect us to compromise, democrats and republicans coming together to solve the fiscal cliff issue but in a balanced way and that is certainly what president obama has campaigned on protecting a strong middle class, allowing the tax cuts to expire above $250,000, but we can't be afraid to compromise but we can do that without compromising our principles. >> is part of this deal

johnboehnerandhouse minority leader nancy pelosi will be there and others at any moment to talk about the fiscal cliff. the president spoke to labor leaders and business executives earlier in the week. it's a busy day in washington, d.c. we'll have more on all of this coming up. diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, it could save you thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. i've been with my doctor for

. >> is that the big onus onjohnboehner? >>i think it is the onus on all of the negotiators. it's all of them at this point. because that's where the spotlight is. yeah. it's going to be quite a task. we saw that when this happened the last time. it's going to come right up to the line. i think we might be here late december. >> the drama will take us through the end of the year. our power panel, jackie kucinich, blake, robert, thanks to all three of you. >>> up next i'll talk with someone who was in this morning's closed door hearing with general petraeus, republican congressman tom rooney will join the show. what do you think about today's testimony? tweet me your comments at thomas a. roberts. we're back after this. [ male announcer ] when was the last time something made your jaw drop? campbell's has 24 new soups that will make it drop over, and over again. ♪ from jammin' jerk chicken, to creamy gouda bisque. see what's new from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. and you learned something along the way. this is the age of knowing what you're made of. so, why let erectile dysfunc

. >>> if the fiscal cliff negotiations seem familiar, we've seen the movie before. president obama andspeakerboehnerwereunable to reach a debt deal in 2001. one of the by-products of the inaction was a downgrade of the country's credit rating. could this happen again? and what would it mean for the nation's financial standing across the globe? joining me is jared bernstein, senior fellow at the center for budget policies and priorities. good to see you again, when it comes to the credit rating, we've seen it happen before. all three credit rating agencies are saying you've got to put a deal together in washington, if you guys in washington don't get it done, we're going to downgrade your credit. >> we've seen this movie before. it's not a good movie. i will remind viewers that the last time standard and poors did take us down a notch, it actually didn't hurt our ability to finance our debt at all. so that was kind of blown off by the markets, but this time could be different. there's one interesting wrinkle here. i do believe that if the political discourse, which is actually sounding a little bet

are more about let's get things done. here is house speakerjohnboehneryesterdayafter meeting with the president. >> i believe that the framework that i've outlined in our meeting today is consistent with the president's call for a fair and balanced approach. to show our seriousness, we've put revenue on the table. >> now, in politics, much of power is about perception. in a post re-election 2012, perceptions are mighty different. here's the president at his first post re-election press conference on wednesday. >> if there was one thing that everybody understood was a big difference between myself and mr. romney, it was when it comes to how we reduce our deficit, i argued for a balanced responsible approach and part of that included making sure that the wealthiest americans pay a little bit more. i think every voter out there understood that that was an important debate. and the majority of voters agreed with me. by the way, more voters agreed with me on this issue than voted for me. >> now, that is not the president obama of yesteryear or even last year. this week the preside

in washington. to see harry reid and mitch mcconnell andjohnboehneractuallystanding together there in the driveway is a very rare feat. and i'm not going to get out there and say happy days are here again. >> okay. what i do want to ask you about, dana, this confederacy of takers article you wrote about how president obama's opponents have come up with a way to avoid the fiscal cliff. there's a large number of patriotic americans mostly from states won by mitt romney who have petitioned the white house to let hem secede. you're saying let them for one big reason. >> well, yes. i'd hate to lose these states because our country has 50 states for a good reason and we like our fellow americans. but strictly as a budgetary matter, if you look at the states that supported mitt rom if i, a lot of those states that want out of the union whether in the south, some in the plains and the mountain states, these are the ones that take far more in federal spending than they give tax dollars. so if you similply lop them off the union we would have a far more prosperous nation. but we'd have

.6 trillion of newrevenue.boehnerhadagreed to $800 billion. it's not hard to find $1.2 trillion as a kind of middle ground to that. then you want to have $4 trillion of total deficit reduction, so that leaves $2.8 trillion of spending reductions that have to happen. here's what people miss. we can avoid going over the cliff with the stroke of a pen. they can just extend all this stuff and kick the can down the road. the real question is are we going to have a big deal? are we going to agree on the major spending restraints that we need as well as the tax stuff in order to actually get the deficit under control? and i think the betting on that is less than 50%. i think we have a great shot at it. but it's going to be really, really hard. >> is that the view from wall street, too? they're not totally confident that this is going to happen? >> what you see in the stock market at the moment is that wall street is not totally confident. that's for sure. >> all right. steve, thanks so much. >> pleasure. >>> coming up, independent senator-elect of maine, angus king joins the conversation. he's a

the election,speakerboehnersatesaid the fight is over and it is i now the law of the land. do these refusals mean the fight may not be over? >> i think the federal government is prepared to run exchanges in the states that don't cooperate. speaker boehner is right, the congress will no longer talk about repealing the law. i think if congress we will see pb cans raising portions of the law they think are controversial or may be able to attract democratic votes and peel back smaller pieces of the health reform law. >> what's your best guess that the the states will adhere to the deadline. mid december ito make their attentions known. >> i think it is important to note the health reform law, people have to select plans beginning in ok of next year and the plans go live in the year following. there's not a lot of time between now and then. states want to run their state exchanges we will know by december which ones are ready and which aren't. >>> ahead, getting to the truth about ben benz. a house member who grilled general petraeus on captiol hill joins us in just a moment. yeah,

and the ongoing relationshipwithboehnerandmcconnell because he's going to have to be a different kind of leader with them. he talked about it in the press conference a bit the other day. he needs to reach out to them the way he's reached out to people on staten island and dealt with the two governors, christie and cuomo, who are two pretty demanding guys as well. and based on their public and private comments have been very happy with the president's leadership and his government. >> i just wonder if it's fair to make a parallel when you look at the president's response to sandy which has had and continues to have just devastating effects on the economy for businesses and the reaction to the bp oil spill which seemed slow in coming because that was devastating as well to a different part of the country. >> he certainly was. he was very slow to respond to people in the gulf coast. >> in terms of appearances. >> i think things have changed, though, over the past couple years. and i suspect that, you know, even the president's closest allies will say that it was a very hard adjustment go

the microphone with pelosi and with reidandboehneratthe side saying that revenue is on the table, but when the talks ramp back up after thanksgiving, is this an issue to be real negotiation or dig-in time? >> i hope it is time for a negotiation. look, if there is one thing that we learned from the president's campaign, he promised to raise taxes on the wealthy. and here is a news flash to the republicans out there, elections have consequences, and that is what he wants to do, and i'm sure he is going to accomplish some of that, but on either side when you dig in before the negotiations start, not only does it look bad, it makes the markets go up and down, and it creates instability, and insecurity among the people out here in the country feeling the pain and the brunt of some of the economic policies and the fact of the matter is that both sides need to come into it with some level of give and take, and that is how you govern and get it done, and if the president is going to ak kccomplish the polis that he did in first term that he promised in the second, he is going to have to get some of

can pass the alternative. but it's your problem to get the votes.andboehnerwouldbe well put not to try to cut a deal with obama but instead to say paul ryan's going to bring a solution to the fix, we're going to gather votes for it. i guarantee you, you'll get the right to have a democratic substitute. and if you can get enough republicans to vote for it, terrific. but they do not have an obligation to concede that the only mandate in washington is the president's. >> you're talking about chains hiring people for 29 hours. i'm hearing that from small business owners across pensacola. >> yeah. >> my own district. on election night i got three different e-mails from small business owners going it's sad -- and i said this on the air a couple days ago. they said i'm going to have to put these people on for less than 30 hours and i'm going to lose my best people. i can choose to do that or fire six, seven people because my margins are so small i'm fighting to keep my business open. >> you track the number of layoffs and closures in the first week since the election, it's sobering