proposed inafiscalcliffdealwhichthe white house quickly rejected because it does not raise taxes on the wealthy but aims to get the money through cuts in deductions. senator jim demint denounced boehner's plan as a tax hike that will, quote, destroy american jobs and allow politicians in washington to spend even more. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell also distanced himself from the boehner plan declining to endorse it yesterday. >> we've wasted enormous amount of time here sparring back and forth in public, and it strikes me it's a good time to get serious about the proposals. so i have no other particular observation than i commend the house republican leadership for trying to move the process along and getting to a point where hopefully we can have a real discussion. >> but why is the the gop still hot on its desire to raise money through cuts and deductions rather than an actual increase in the top end tax rate? well, i think it's likely because the most ductions in states happen to be the higher blue states. in other words, the gop wants the states that largely reelecte

republicans have offered their own solutions tothefiscalcliff. butwe're no closer toadeal. joiningme now is senator isa isaacson. good morning, senator isaacson. i assume you stand by what you said just two weeks ago. so let me ask you this. the initial offer by speaker boehner, is it fair to say -- is it fair that the white house is calling it an unserious offer since it doesn't do anything on tax rates? >> no, i dent think so at all. i think it's more reflective of a simpson-bowles. it's a first step. i made a living selling houses for 33 years. i don't get people together until they finally sit down 0 at the table and negotiate. it's still too much posturing, too much the president wants it his way, somebody else wants it that way. i believe tom coburn was right. it's time to sit down in a room, see if we can work this out. going off the cliff would be a stupid idea. >> i want you -- david brooks this morning writes this in "the new york times." republicans have to realize that they are going to cave on tax rates. the only question is what they get in return. do you agree? >> not

of the opposition to any at thepotentialfiscalcliffdealsspeakerboehner can work out with the president. he can't work anything out without this guy's approval. yesterday grover norquist warned of a wave of tea party anger, a tea party two that would dwarf anything we've seen before. let's take a look at the threat from grover. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obama care that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion dollar tax increase, was pushed over until after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, that are being -- those all hit after the election. we got four bad years of regulation taxes, he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> there's a dr. strangelove. how many republicans will be willing to stand up to that threat? david corn is here to talk about it, the washington bureau chief for mother jones and the author of "47 percent." he's a member of the gridiron society. and john feehery i

fiscalcliffdealsisincredible. >> and the sad part, for the american people who are watching from the outside, is they don't realize how much of this theater getting to the deal. we know we have to have -- boehner's going to have to talk tough because it seem likes he's holding firm and the white house is holding firm and the left groups are going to flip and right groups are going to flip and it's going to be this dance, and then we'll get to a deal somehow. if you're saying okay, am i -- are my taxes going up on the 1st or not? >> they are. >> they are, one way or the other. people in the country the way they pay for christmas, focus groups heard this over and over, take out a loan to buy presents, against what they think they'll get back in tax returns to pay back that loan. for those people, all of this dance, we joke, and it is funny and ridiculously childish and high school, maybe junior high, it's scary for people on outside saying -- >> the personal approval rating is 9%, up to 11% now. >> let's also keep in mind, optics are part of this. person who has all of the leverage

the scenes of the talks to avoidthefiscalcliff. itseems the framework foradealactuallymight be taking shape. if so, what will it look like? david drucker has been nosing around a little bit. the associate politics editor at "roll call." when you hear senators and speaker of the house come out and talk it doesn't sound like they're all that close, david. are you optimistic? >> well i'm sort of on the fence here, jon. whenever you hear members of congress talk about any kind of fiscal cliff deal you have to approach it with a sort of believe everything and believe nothing attitude. i think that everybody wants to avoid having taxes go up for all americans as of january 1st but everybody has a price for that. and it, to me, it's about whether or not both sides are looking for a win-win deal, meaning, my opponent wins and i win. or whether both sides or one of the sides are looking for a deal where only i win and you lose and on top of all of that then we have to look at what do they want to include in any sort of deal? are we going to address entitlement reform? are we going to cut spend

fiscalcliffdealthroughthe senate, and also through the house, they say they hope that he's coming with concrete spending cut ideas that are acceptable to the administration. one of the meetings today will be with senate republican leader mitch mcconnell who a short time ago sounded pretty fired up. >> the only reason democrats are insisting on raising rates is because raising rates on the so-called rich is the holy grail of liberalism. their aim is not job he tkraoe asian, they are interested in wealth destruction. not job creation but wealth destruction. >> reporter: a short time ago vice president biden was out and about and he told reporters that he is optimistic about the overall fiscal cliff talks, martha. martha: we'll see. the way they speak publicly there doesn't seem to be a lot of budging on either side. we know there were pretty high profile white house meetings, but those conversations, not happening publicly right now, but are they going on behind closed doors do we think? >> reporter: we know president obama and speaker john boehner had a phone conversation last nigh

both hint thatadealtoavoidthefiscalcliffison the way. possibly in time for santa. i asked republican john cornyn whether he thinks that is a reality. >>> and governor romney sits down with the president since the election, actually since the debates. does this do either of them any good? rick santorum is out front. and julian assange is out front to answer critics and our questions tonight. let's go "out front." >>> good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett, outfront tonight, an early christmas miracle. or at least the glimmer of one today. barack obama bringing glad ti tidings of great joy to avoid the fiscal cliff. >> i will go anywhere and do anything it takes to get this done. it's too important for washington to screw this up. >> and john boehner, not to be outdone, put a little early present under the tree too. >> i'm optimistic that we can continue to work together to avert this crisis and sooner rather than later. >> these are pretty glum faces to deliver those presents. no smile from either one of them. but investors didn't care, they're excited about the present,

thefiscalcliff? butthe g.o.p. is not so keen onadeal, atleast the one the white house presented yesterday. the first offer from president obama and treasury secretary timothy geithner included a $1.6 trillion tax increase along with an extension of the payroll answer it cut and unemployment insurance and a request for $50,000,000,000 worth of stimulus spending next year. now, it doesn't promise $400,000,000,000 worth of spending cuts but congressional republicans call the deal unbalanced and unreasonable and saying there is not enough spending cuts and reforms. the one good piece of -- piece of good news to the white house on this is it shows president obama is opening strong not conceding. we will be right back. arguments to feel confident in their positions. i want them to have the data and i want them to have the passion. but it's also about telling them, you're put on this planet for something more. i want this show to have an impact beyond just informing. an impact that gets people to take action themselves. as a human being, that's really important.

by leaving town before makingadealonthefiscalcliff. what'sgoing on? if you take an aspirin to prevent heart trouble check the labor. our own dr. sanjay gupta tells us what a new study says about the effects of coated tablets. we'll also hear what happened during in flight emergency during one of the world's newest high-tech planes. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in the situation room. >>> with just 27 days to go until all of us are hit with tax increases, takes it across the board a cut of $55 billion. people have it in their power to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff aren't negotiating, they're not debating right now, so many of them simply leaving town. but there's more going on than meets the eye. let's bring in our senior congressional correspondent dana basch, she has the latest. >> reporter: there's so much political theater around here right now, you could say tickets. one of today's acts was the house leaving. lawmakers streaming out of the capitol hill, racing to their cars to get to the airport and go home. it's a scene you usually see on a thursday afternoon or friday morning, not

ofthisfiscalcliffdeal. thatincludes house democrats. and how do i go about doing that without totally alienating the base of my party? and i'm very curious to see what his next step is because his opening offer was essentially where he said he could only go in the debt ceiling bargains of july 2011. he said i can go to $800 billion in revenue, i can do these specific entitlement reforms. that's now his opening offer. where does he go here? >> i think, though, steve that the president of the united states and mr. lew and other democrats need to start looking at him differently. he is like an attorney that knows what his client is going to give and what his client's not going to give. we all know john boehner. john boehner's a deal maker. i didn't -- i liked him personally, but i never trusted him in congress because, you know, he liked making deals. that's what we need right now. the president can only push him so far. or he loses his caucus. and this is not about john boehner kicking and screaming. this is about him knowing what he can deliver. >> i understand that. john boehner has,

there will be a deal? fiscalcliff? >> i don't think so before january 1st no. i actually don't. i think there may be a vote right after. one scenario i read about yesterday which i mentioned in my column this morning which was pretty interesting to me is that the republicans might let a vote happen in the house but all vote present and let it pass solely with the democratic voters. >> bill: okay. we'll talk about that and other scenarios with senator sherrod brown when we come back here on the "full court press." when the last card is played what will be remembered? explore the lives of the famous and infamous who changed our world forever. experience the drama, back to back to back. of all the hours in all their days, the ones you'll never forget are the final 24. don't miss the final 24 mini-marathon this sunday on current tv. save the best for last. >> announcer: chatting where you live at current.com/billpress this is the "bill press show," live on your radio and current tv. >> bill: you got it. 33 minutes after the hour now. the "full court

, but they are expected to discuss strategiesfordealingwiththefiscalcliff. tim' ner, the chief fiscal cliff negotiator meets today with congressional leaders to get the negotiations moving. >>> while you were sleeping lindsay lohan was arrested -- again. the new york city police department took her in after a fight at a club here in the city. officers say there is a possibility lohan hit a woman. they didn't confirm if she's being charged with anything at this point. >> lindsay lohan, club, 4:00 a.m., new york, bad combination. >>> anything can happen on the streets of new york city including a pony and a zebra running free on staten island. they escaped from the pen in the yard where they live but they were returned to the owner. >> is the zebra chasing the pony? >> looks like it. >>. >>> the new york times reporting on an officer who's a hero. he's kneeling down to put a new pair of boots on a homeless man. the 25-year-old officer purchased them at a nearby shoe store after noticing that the man was barefoot and was blistering. a woman from arizona snapped this photo with her cell phone c

inthisdealtoavoidthefiscalcliff? becausethat's not what they are doing. should they include those? >> yes. and i know that democrats accept that there -- this has to be a balanced package that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> reporter: so news the white house is saying different from yesterday that spending cuts should be part of these fiscal cliff talks. where it may break down on the part about whether the president will push democrats on capitol hill to go along. it was tuesday that dick durbin said spending cuts, medicare cuts, ets, should not be part of these fiscal cliff cuts. we'll see whether durbin and others on the hill go along with what jay carney is saying. we'll see if that improves the possibility of a deal. megyn: we have 33 democratic lawmakers saying we are not touching social security now or for the future. this jackhammer is really rude. >> reporter: the cuts are being made as we speak. it's hard to cut the government. megyn: alert frank, the two guys features in your first report. someone else came to the white house hat must have been an extra

to strikeadealbeforethe end of the year on reducing the national debt to avoidthatfiscalcliff. republicanaid describe the tentative white house proposal this way. $1.6 trillion in revenue presented by secretary treasury secretary timothy geithner and stimulus and $400 billion in medicare and other entitlement savings. a permanent increase in the debt limit. >> so, let's get more on the standoff right now. joining us senator bernie sanders of vermont. he caucuses with the democrats. senator, first of all, congratulations on your re-election. thanks for coming in. republicans say, you know what, they'll be flexible, but the democrats have to be flexible, too, especially when it comes to entitlement spending. medicare, medicaid and even reform. are you open to any of that? >> when republicans talk about being flexible, we have not heard one definitive word to what they mean. second of all, our republican friends look up and understand that this issue of the fiscal cliff was debated during the election and, you know what, mitt romney lost. obama won. the american people are very

it will be the democrats. >> it could be. depending on what happens. if they keep posturing we can go offthefiscalcliffitwon't be such a big deal i don't think that's where most democrats will end up. you they are president and a lot of people down in washington saying they don't want to go off the fiscal cliff. as far as grover norquist notices, i don't think republicans should be caving to a special interest of one, frankly. we do see some brave republicans coming out there and they should be supported because they are about finding a solution. >> i want to show this tomb the president playing golf with former president bill clinton. how much do you think fiscal cliff was coming up during their golf rounds? >> i'm sure they talked about it because president clinton is a political wonk. what bill clinton showed during his presidency is that there's a way to show common ground with republicans who hate you. they impeached bill clinton but made a deal. they made a deal that was nor the right of where most democrats are. this president has a unique opportunity to make a deal for more towards his left.

coming off in the battle over how to get offthefiscalcliff. republicanscall president bam become's opening proposal ludicrous. and absurd. the president is going public to try to ridicule the g.o.p. lawmakers to accepting the tax hikes now. >> i miss visiting towns like this. >> president obama got his wish, rather than negotiating with republicans he was hamering them. back on the campaign trail in a factory that makes angry bird toys. >> it's not accept to believe me and i don't think it's acceptable for you for republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage because they don't want the tax rates on the upper income folks to go up. >> within minutes, john boehner fired back the talks are on life support. >> let's not kid ourselves. >> boehner ripped the president for sending treasury secretary ti tim geithner to capitol hill with a proposal that led mitch mcconnell literally burst out laughing. >> the white house took three weeks to respond with any kind of proposal. and much to my disappointment, it wasn't a serious one. >> their beef is the president campaigned

think some of the concern onthefiscalcliffisoverbrought? >> you know what they are probably going to come up with something. if not on january 1st, then they will come up with some deal to make a deal, kicking the can down the road. >> gregg: which is congress's job. [ laughter ] >> and more important than the fiscal cliff a lot of investment houses are lowering their growth outlook. that is because the owners of small businesses, they are the drivers of the economy. they hire. right now, one out of five cut jobs in the next 12 months. one out of three is cutting capital spending. if there is no jobs we don't have consumer spending that is 70% of g.d.p., so this is really steam rolling. it is frightening. >> gregg: i was reading economists and they say household purchases, wages in salary going down, durable goods decreasing now we have manufacturing coming out on monday as well as jobs report on thursday or friday? >> yeah, the jobs report is expected to be very dismal, about 75,000 net jobs. some of that is because of sandy, but housing market is rebuilding, it's recovering. tha

with the benefit of 500 miles how does this for the prospects for adealonfiscalclifflookfrom your perspective? >> you know -- >> do you think it's going to happen. >> short answer is i don't know because i see two trends simultaneously. one, you hear voices in either party saying, hey, it wouldn't be so bad if we go over the cliff. some of the hysteria attendant to the whole notion of the cliff is being -- dissipating. on the other hand, if you look at the numbers, they are not that far apartment. you know, honestly, it's not as though we are dealing with major tectonic plates moving in separate drksz. the president saying 1.6 trillion in revenue and boehner saying 800 billion. so compromise at 1.2 trillion. you see the cuts the deal in aggregate are about 2 and change in trillions. where they differ emotional is raising rates. for obtain is a line in the sand. for the president, that's a line in the sand. there are mechanisms buckets and closing loopholes don't satisfy the president. so that is the sticking point. have to work around that? hard to

and republic leaders in congress have just 31 days to strikeadealbeforewe fall offthefiscalcliff. butso far it's not looking like either side is willing to compromise. >> our next guest says there has been a failure in leadership to solve this crisis. joining us now is texas congressman louie gohmert. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> this is not necessarily against the president you have blasted g.o.p. leaders this week for a failure to lead basically saying we need to stand on our principles. they have a delegate -- delicate position to deal with. >> up until last week there had been a failure of leadership. the president out there finally pushing so far look we are going to forget the constitution. i'm going to basically pronounce law as i speak it congress hasn't done what i wanted, so we're just gonna ignore congress' constitutional right to appropriate. congress' constitutional right to set debt ceilings and we're going to ignore that that's what basically -- geithner basically announced. speaker boehner said look we can't allow that to happen. the fact is we can't. if we fa

or congress to come together and reachadealonavoidingthatfiscalcliffandwe are nowhere even close to any compromise after the president's proposal, ali. >> alisyn: yeah, it's not looking promising. because the president, i mean, the republicans say at that they were hoping that the president was going to try to meet them more in the middle or halfway because they all had agreed that they could raise 800 billion dollars with each of their separate tax proposals, one was to close loopholes on the republican side. and the president to raise on individuals and now the number has changed. the president in his proposal wants 1.6 trillion dollars in tax increases. here is the president on how the g.o.p. has not been cooperating. >> if congress does nothing, every family will see their income taxes automatically go up, a typical middle class family will see their taxes rise by 2200 dollars, but it's unacceptable for some in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage because they refuse to let the tax rates go up on the wealthiest americans. >> a lot of people saying that there's not b

on the stump pressing republicans to cutadealavertingthefiscalcliff. >>it's like the lump of coal you get for christmas. it's a scrouge christmas. >> there's a stalemate, let's not kid ourself rs. >> reporter: things got tense after secretary geithner visited capitol hill thursday to present what republicans are calling an unreasonable proposal. it includes $1.6 trillion in new taxes. in part, through raising rates on the top 2%. and lips loopholes and reductions. $50 billion in stimulus next year, and $400 billion in medicare and other entitlement savings to be worked out. >> i think the proposal delivered here by secretary geithner was not a serious proposal. >> they want this extra spending that's greater than the amount willing to cut. >> democrats say it was just a starting point. and one republicans should counter. >> there will be prolonged negotiations. and all of us are going to have to get out of our comfort zones to make that happen. >> cnn learned last week the republicans gave the white house their own starting position, which democrats consider unbalanced. extending all

in the house, they'll have to pass it staring downthefiscalcliff. >>but here's the thing. both sides acknowledge that you're not going to get a deal done without some sort of change to entitlements. specifically medicare. >> well, i'm not so sure what that means when you say it's some sort of change. some sort of structural change to medicare? i'm not sure that has to be on the table. i do think, though, that we do have to have some spending cuts and the president has acknowledged that, as well. but the basis of the problem is you have to have -- the republican party is intransigent about the idea of tax increases and the taxes will grow up after december 31st regardless of what happens. if you don't do anything, they'll go up. so you have to do something. you'll have 98% of the american people who will get a tax cut under president obama's proposal, 97% of american small businesses will get a tax cut. so why not come to a negotiated deal on the things that we agree on and put aside the other things. we don't thesely have to agree on those 2%. let's work on where there is some sort o

in their opinion, to avoidthefiscalcliff. ithink you can file this one under the to be continued unfortunately. >>> bipartisan delegation of governors meeting with the president and congressional leaders at the white house to discuss how badly this fiscal cliff could affect them out there in those states who rely heavily on the feds and how automatic deficit reduction measures will hurt state budgets. federal aid is big, big, big to the states. federal grants make up a third of state revenue. at the table, utah's governor gary herbert, government falli number, governor walker, minnesota's governor mark dayton, and arkansas's mike beebe. what they said when they emerged from the meeting. >> we have ideas how we can save money, how we can be able to create more efficiencies and government and spending with some of the different demonstrations that we've done in our various states we plan on getting back to the president, vice president with our suggestions and ideas. >> none of us want to see taxes on middle class folks go up. and we think it would have a significantly negative impact on the eco

do think there is -- you can make a political argument that going overthefiscalcliff, maybe in democrats' best political interests. now that takes aside the entire debate over whether it's a good thing for the economy. >> they have no idea. >> nobody knows for sure. >> it's a very good point. >> it's a big risk. >> and if you look at polling that says, well this would -- they would blame -- you never know if it's true. i think that is a theory in some democratic circles but to your point, andrea, i think the uncertainty creeps in why no one is saying let's let this deadline pass. >> before i let you both go, since you're two of the smartest people i know in washington, where do we stand on cabinet selections and, you know, the foreign policy team. >> we saw this joking moment, let me replay it, a news conference to push the u.n. treaty on disabilities which -- >> which is going to -- may fail. >> which is unbelievable since america has been -- >> very surprising. >> way out front since the days of bush '41 and tom harken was the big -- >> bob dole. >> and john mccain toda

questions about jobs and the economy. this is similar, except it will focus onthefiscalcliff. $2,000is the amount the average american will see taxes increase by if they can't get a deal done. i've been looking at the entries to this hash tag, it's mixed so president obama can expect tough x questions. one person writes in, why don't republicans in congress realize that when we voted for you we voted for your tax plan. that's one person. another writes in, what are you willing to compromise with the gop to get this fiscal cliff stuff done? i think president obama preparing to answer some tough questions from voters. over the weekend house speaker john boehner said these negotiations are nowhere. jay carney disagrees with that assessment. now phone calls at this point between president obama and congressional leaders, but the white house says the talks will be ongoing over the next several days, tamron. >> thank you. the president's q and a on twitter comes days after republicans flat-out rejected his opening bid in negotiations. house speaker john boehner appeared on one sunday

charming, engaging, how winning is that demeanor, is it at all,indealingwithjohn boehner andthefiscalcliff?>> i think they're kind of past all that at this point, right? i mean, i don't think the demeanor's really going to help at this point. they've been through this -- they've done this dance before. most of the players who are involved in this negotiation are the same players that were involved in the negotiation that happened in the summer of 2011 over the debt ceiling. and so these guys know each other pretty well by now, and i think the president and john boehner, even after all of that, still have a reasonable working relationship. but i think that the president's people have made a very clear calculation, they decided that they tried a way of negotiating in 2011 which was to be what they think of as reasonable. to come in and say, put your cards on the table. this is where we think a good deal will end up. $3 in spending cuts for $1 in tax increases. here's a bunch of medicare cuts on sbilentitlement. show your hand. this is what the president's willing to do. meet me here i

dealandsay that all of thenation'sfiscalproblemsare to be balanced on the back of middle class families and the wealthy don't participate, that's a bad deal we cannot and should not live within this country. >> shortly before your public comments about this this past summer, i was hearing off the record from democratic senators they believed they were going to have to go off the cliff because at that time, they couldn't conceive of any other way for republicans to violate their pledge to grover norquist that in january, once you're off the cliff, what everyone would be voting r for would not be considered a tax increase, so they thought they were going toof today it. is there now a growing feeling among democrats that the republicans are breaking up with norquist in such numbers that they might be able to do something reasonable before new year's eve? >> yeah, well, the fact is if we can't get a good deal and the bush tax cuts expire, when we come back in january, anything we do will be a tax cut and the grover norquist pledge won't apply, so it puts the republicans in a better

that. how damaging is the fight overthefiscalclifftothe republican party right now? let's take a look at what conservative commentator bill krystal said on fox. >> the republicans are at real risk in my view now of looking like they are defending -- keeping the current tax rates for the wealthy. at the end of the day president obama is selling a simple message, i want to keep taxes low for middle class americans and republicans look like -- i'm worried they're in the position of looking this, if they don't care about the middle class and want to keep tax rates low for wealthier americans. >> yes or no, is he right? yes or no? >> i don't think so. it's far too easy. >> he's right. democratic strategists are giddy. for two years they've been trying to make this argue am, the republicans are going to hold yush doctor. >> let me go back. i think he's wrong. i think ultimately if we don't get a deal, it's bad for president obama, bad for his legacy, and bad for democrats. >> i think you're right but i also think that your party lost this election, they should act accordingly and the

duringfiscalcliffnegotiations,we're not seeing much in terms ofadeal. the latest roadblock is the cost of federal retirement programs. republicans are staying is up to the president to cut back on medicare medicaid and social security but democrats want entitlement programs completely off the table. today, the white house is sending treasury secretary timothy geithner and congressional negotiator rob neighbor to capitol hill where they will lay out their proposal with speaker boehner. more bill press is coming up after the break. as always, we're live in our chat room and would love to see you there. current.com/billpress. we're right back. you're about to watch a viewer created ad message for little caesars who proudly salutes unites states veterans everywhere. >> hi, i'm rick loz. i joined the united states air force in 1987. as i was leaving the service i went into a civilian career for a little bit but i was looking for a little bit more than what the civilian career had to offer me and that's when learned about the little caesars

before going offacliff. >>the political theater overthefiscalcliff. >>mr. obama sends his chief negotiator. >> treasury secretary tim geithner. >> who was on capitol hill right now. >> reaching out to capitol hill. >> the push is on to get a deal. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks. >> literally no progress. >> bad news, bad news, bad news. >> this is the moment of posturing. >> a lot of posturing. >> until we hear good news. >> the framework of the deal is beginning to emerge. >> i'll do whatever it takes to get this done. >> we have a debt crisis. >> i'll do anywhere and do whatever it takes. >> all eyes on the white house. >> they're going to get right up to cliff on new year's eve. we're all going to be hugging cliff. >> it's like when a fish show starts. the crowd -- >> i hope nobody catches that reference. >> all eyes on the white house. >> together again. >> what's his name? >> table for two. >> don't help me, don't help me. >> mr. romney goes to washington. >> mitt romney makes his way to the white house. >> the political power lunch of 2012. >> it's n

you. unaccountable. c-span2. >>host: has part of our series looking atthefiscalcliffswelook at different aspects today we turn our attention to the amt and the patch that could work out a deal if they do nothing it will affect 30 million americans. john buckley thank you for being here. what is the alternative minimum tax? >>guest: you pay the greater of the regular income tax or under the minimum tax that has the broader-based to disallow those deductions. >> in some respects it is similar to the itemize deductions rather than directly attack it puts the overall cap there is no new ideas it bears a strong relationship. >>host: here's the form for the 2011 tax preparation the alternative minimum taxes you fall into it? how do you know, ? >> i believe you could only do this with computer programs like tax prepares if fried did not have that i do believe that at&t would have been killed along time ago if people really had to do that to figure out the details there would be a strong revolt against the complexity. it is extremely burdensome if you try to do it without preparatio

, now i'm as concerned as anybody else aboutthefiscalcliff. but thinking -- you know that the new congress that is coming in has less of the crazy tea baggers than the ones that we're dealing with now. as my understanding that congress can write legislation that's retro active to the first of the year. it may not be such a bad thing going over it afterall. >> stephanie: gayle, i swear to god i understand people -- even the white house saying that would not be preferrable to do that and that markets may react. i'm starting to agree with you. the more i see mcconnell and boehner's comments and how unseriously they're treating this, the lack of specificity of what their plan is, that's what i think. go over the bunny hill or whatever the hell it is. whatever this thing is. the slopy thing. >> the ramp. the hump. >> stephanie: bush tax cuts are gone for the rich. they're gone. they're done. you fix it retroactively with a new congress. it is not like -- it really is like a cliff. maybe a couple of weeks,

. >> arwa damon reporting for us from noren syria. arwa, thank you very much. >>> when we comeback,fiscalcliffproposal, counterproposal, the white house hates what the republicans are proposing. the republicans hate what the white house is proposing. they apparently are no closer to a deal. we'll have the details on the latest republican counteroffer to the president's proposal. r t, the distances aren't getting shorter. ♪ the trucks are going farther. the new 2013 ram 1500. ♪ with the best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ guts. glory. ram. ♪ if we want to improve our schools... ... what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated equipment? they can help, but recent research shows... ... nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our

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