We discuss getting Zhou Tonged and Jamie Dimon-ed in financial markets. They also discuss bucket shop derivatives, a debit card repo scam and a compound of morons and regulatory flatulence. In the second half of the show Max talks to Michel Bauwens of the P2P Foundation about bitcoin in the virtual world and about pseudo abundance and artificial scarcity in the real world.

I guess I did not make my homework well here, but even a colleague failed to answer this one properly. What happens if I put my jeans in the washing machine and I happen to get my USB stick out of the pocket, ending up destroying my live savings…? Does anybody know?

I suppose you need multiple copies of your life savings! The way bitcoin works, it does not matter how many copies you have. So that is one penality for removing the banks from the equation, i.e. more responsibility on the individual????

@Flopot – I’m totally fascinated by the shriekers who absolutely freak out that two parties can voluntarily engage in a non-coerced, non command and control currency and by the decibel level of their shrieks, I take it that they are threatened by people engaging in commerce voluntarily?

As I’ve said before, when governments get hold of this, it will be tracked and controlled. The only way they can afford to allow bitcoin to survive is if they can take a cut. Politicians without money are a bunch of people with their hats in their hands. And like all political systems, the politicians will ef it up in the process of efing you over.

Well, at work we bake non-volatile memories at up to 85 degree and a minimum of -30 degrees. But we never put them under water so I don’t know. I guess it depends on the quality of NAND flash technology casing.

Look for your subcutaneous ‘MintID’ soon. All your money on a small chip under your skin, able to be shut off by your government for any reason at any time they decide. This form of tyranny is in the wind. Government(s) will under all circumstances attempt to maintain control of ‘their’ populations as they believe it is their right.

Thank you for pushing Bitcoin. IMHO, even though it is not perfect, it is a huge step in the right direction and it allows people to bypass the middlemen, that is the friggin’ banks, and engage in direct monetary transactions between themselves without the Western Union-type dicks charging a huge fee on every transaction you make. I mean, just imagine being able to transfer a $million on a USB out of one country and into another?! AFAIC, that is great!

So yeah, I support Bitcoin and I hate banks and banksters, especially Lloyd ”Suicide Banker” Blankfein, so I hope that Bitcoin will blast the JP Morgan and the Goldman Scums and the other bankster fuckers into oblivion!

If you move to 1:17 minutes from the beginning of the video, you’ll actually see numerous flashes following failed Jihadi assassination attempts of Israeli _civilians_ by rockets. Iron Dome was there, and put an end to their barbarous aspirations…

I like the idea of P2P manufacturing. That’s really a very good idea because manufacturing is basically many different divisions working together traditionally by one company in a fixed location. There’s really no reason why this model couldn’t be de centralised through a community of different divisions which are connected P2P.

For an example of how far computer modelling and design has come take the Airbus A380. There’s no prototype. It’s all a result of modelling and flight simulators. All of it was virtual. They built one and it took off, doing exactly what it should have done with no serious surprises. If a company can organise departments like this to produce aircraft then there’s no reason why a P2P community couldn’t produce complex products like motor cars.

The different divisions could simply work on a margin of their costs base. With bitcoins, customers could simply buy the products or the kit forms of open source products. The investment could be crowd sourced by the people who want to have the finished product so make down payments in bitcoins. They could “earn interest” on their investment in the form of a discount on delivery of the standard price to new customers or they could get enterprise shares that pay a yearly dividend.

This would be far more competitive than any centralised operation that was bank financed and limited to a central location. By competing on quality and building products that have long lifespans you go some way to helping on the unsustainable extraction of natural resources. A huge factor in natural resource extraction is that these resources have been building products with built in obsolecense which leads to more extraction, greater pollution and means that finite resources are wasted.

The thing about bitcoin for me is that I don’t see it accepted as payment for actual goods on the internet. This is what’s missing at the moment. If people saw that they could pay in bitcoins on a broad scale they would use them. If somebody wanted to buy say, a new washing machine and it was $595 or 92 Bitcoins they would immediately regard bitcoins as a currency because things that they want are offered in that currency.

What gives a token money system real value is it’s exchange potential in goods and services. At the moment there’s too much speculation making it a captive of collective sentiment. It’s true that if it had a big expansion in usage in real goods and services the limitations on their creation would cause them to deflate or become more valuable but look at the cause and effect. The real usage has to drive the model. people making gains will only ever follow this.

From Weiss Research informed me that Taiwan is trying to renegotiate their trade with China in Yuan instead of USDollar. Taiwan has 80,000 companies willing to come aboard in abandoning dollar hegemony. Wow! First the BRICS now Taiwan!
Use your USD to scarff up more Ag while you can.

From Weiss Research informed me that Taiwan is trying to renegotiate their trade with China in Yuan instead of USDollar. Taiwan has 80,000 companies willing to come aboard in abandoning dollar hegemony. Wow! First the BRICS now Taiwan! Japan and China doing Yen Yuan exchanges? This could go viral like a solar wind storm.
Use your USD to scarff up more Ag while you can.

BitCoin is only secure as the platform where it resides. Apple just got it’s first serious Trojan. Therefore, there is not a Windows platform on the planet that’s safe. FedGov.Inc will loose it’s cyber war assets upon the BitCoin community when BitCoin becomes a threat. Therefore, BitCoin holders have better be ready for a serious cyber onslaught. Most if not all, BitCoin holders are woefully unprepared for such a threat. How many BitCoin mining operations have been hacked? Remember one is tooo many.

My suggestion to anyone thinking of mining bitcoins is to use a laptop because it’s got complex power saving capabilities and uses upto 20 times less power than a typical tower. If you must use a tower put a small graphics card in for less power because its motherboard CPU and maths processing one needs not graphics.
Distributed manufacturing means 3d printing including some of the circuits of course, soon we will be able to make a lot of stuff at a push of a button(star trek style). Try copyrighting that !!

CPU mining of bitcoins is not going to get you anywhere. A decent mining rig has a fast GPU (or many), which is the graphics card. It’ll cost in hardware and power, but you can do a small rig for fairly cheap. I’ve been mining on a slow (by bitcoin mining standards) rig for about a year and there is no way a CPU miner is going to get anywhere. So far I’ve purchased a few ounces of silver and some coffee with bitcoins – it works!

Thanks for the correction Catfish, ironically its opposite- the power consumption is very important though. Think I get it now (lol), noticed this,
”TLDR: Rough estimate of electricity cost needed to produce one bitcoin on a laptop with 5 Mhash/s equals to 61 dollar, and would take 339 days with current difficulty.”
”An ATI 5870 video card, which has one the best efficiency/cost ratios, mines at about 400 Mhash/sec and consumes about 216 Watts per hour. Which gives us about 2 Mhash/sec per 1 Watt of power. In other words mining with ATI video card about 20 times more cost effective then mining with CPU.”
”I have an Asus laptop with an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5730 in it running at 56mhash/s. It takes about a week and a half to mine a coin. It does work, not well at all however.”http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1319/is-there-any-point-to-casual-mining
So a laptop would need a really good graphics cards and even then is probably less efficient than a tower, one lives and learns

So wikispeed in building a model car and claims 100 mpg from a gasoline engine.
Too bad they went with EFI and control otherwise the carb version could produce a couple of hundred miles per gal from E85 that was distilled from home from sorghum that is also a food that you can consume, win win with no waste.

That Hull effect will set them free.

So your generator runs off of E85 at ounces per hundreds of KW so your almost free electricity produces bitcoins or produces even more E85 to trade with others to run there gensets, to then produce whatever they consider of value.

I know you got to justify your return on investment, just were do you begin?

No more pesticides, no more carbon footprint, no more control, no more force, just sovereignty, and independence.

Watch out Tamir your on the divide and conquer bandwagon, remember we are all pink on the inside, except them reptilian sorts, lol.

I like the idea behind bitcoin – but there’s one question that hangs – the internet switch – sure, your coins may always be there, but if you can’t access them what good are they?

What I’d like to see are more people coming together to develop free sustainable communities, preferably to take over a state – peacefully and legally.

“Mahomet cald the Hill to come to him – And when the Hill stood still, he was neuer a whit abashed, but said; If the Hill will not come to Mahomet, Mahomet wil go to the hill.”
-Francis Bacon

I see no way of changing the behavior of the banks or the politicians that protect them.

I know for many this may seem a rather antiquated idea, but they have absolutely no honor and without honor there’s no trust and without trust you’re thrust into various levels of chaos and that does not bode well for any civilized society.

The one thing I do know is gold and silver have been around for a very long time and there are certainly enough people in the world who believe it is something worth trading – especially in times of uncertainty. However, what I think is most important and something few are actually discussing or moving towards is trust and how to re-build that idea and concept.

Banks have lost the people’s trust.
Government has lost the people’s trust.
There’s no way even if they tried would trust be rebuilt in my life time.

That leaves us all with few options.
Live in constant fear of a collapse.
Live though a collapse.
Gather with like minds now and start building communities you can trust.

Max and Stacy have had plenty of people on various shows discussing different forms of money, how rotten to the core the banks and our political and economic systems are – isn’t it time to push forward and start looking at developing communities or at least starting the conversation?

@Al Kyder, the expat community of picturesque Chiang Mai is a long bus ride from BKK;)
@steveosilver, easy to know if reptilian because the blood is blue and they don’t blink much giving a kind of spaced out hypnotized stare;)
@jischinger, have said a similar thing about organizing oneself into self sufficient groups in order to survive. Funny how trust in governments is at all time low but people still vote for them theres just no educating some people-Barrr! Waking up some people is such hard work-think they need a strong slap in the face first or some liquid nitrogen pouring over em=to wake em up from thy Matrix induced stupor.

What if drug dealers and money launderers use bitcoin? Loose my password? bla bla bla.
“Cause all these things already happen with fiat currency!
The beauty of BC is you can move anywhere on the planet and you still have your dough available to you. Try that with dollars.