Alliance Blood Elves?

Post by Berronaxwins

And during this questline King Varian mentioned he was talking to the sin'dorei to bring them into the alliance..

Is it possible that we will have playable alliance blood elves?, or will they just be a few blood elf npcs that sit around in SW.

Post by Adamsm

Since Jaina went ape %^&* and started slaughtering them, no chance in Hell at this point; she drove them back into the Horde with her stupid idiotic move....I really wish Khadgar would get off his duff, go to Dalaran and !@#$% slap some sense into her already.

Post by Sas148

Since Jaina went ape %^&* and started slaughtering them, no chance in Hell at this point; she drove them back into the Horde with her stupid idiotic move....I really wish Khadgar would get off his duff, go to Dalaran and !@#$% slap some sense into her already.

The actions of one individual should not effect diplomatic decisions of an entire race, in my opinion.

King Varian is a pretty good diplomat(in my opinion) and i think he would find a way to make things right.. :P

Also they deserved it for bombing theramore, and then using dalaran as a gateway to steal from the alliance.

Post by Atik

King Varian is a pretty good diplomat(in my opinion)

*reads*

*double takes*

*triple takes*

What?

Post by oneforthemoney

King Varian is a pretty good diplomat(in my opinion)

*reads*

*double takes*

*triple takes*

What?

He has gotten better. So long as his morality chain keeps hanging around.

Post by Adamsm

The actions of one individual should not effect diplomatic decisions of an entire race, in my opinion.

King Varian is a pretty good diplomat(in my opinion) and i think he would find a way to make things right.. :P

Yeah because the Blood Elves are really gonna rejoin a group that has attempted genocide on them not once, but twice.

Also they deserved it for bombing theramore, and then using dalaran as a gateway to steal from the alliance.

No, they really don't; Aethas was not part of those traitors, and neither were those innocent Elves that were slaughtered wholesale by the Alliance forces in Dalaran; Khadgar needs to come lay down the Law to Jaina before she does more stupid ^&*! like this.

Post by Berronaxwins

The actions of one individual should not effect diplomatic decisions of an entire race, in my opinion.

King Varian is a pretty good diplomat(in my opinion) and i think he would find a way to make things right.. :P

Yeah because the Blood Elves are really gonna rejoin a group that has attempted genocide on them not once, but twice.

Also they deserved it for bombing theramore, and then using dalaran as a gateway to steal from the alliance.

No, they really don't; Aethas was not part of those traitors, and neither were those innocent Elves that were slaughtered wholesale by the Alliance forces in Dalaran; Khadgar needs to come lay down the Law to Jaina before she does more stupid ^&*! like this.

They were given the choice to leave, they didn't take it.

But nvm i won't answer anymore of your replies you seem to biased against the alliance for some reason..

Post by Adamsm

Not biased...but really; not all Sunreaver Blood Elves were part of the traitor groups, just like in Tides of War, but Jaina still blames them all! As long as she is in a position of power in the Alliance, the Blood Elves would never join up with opposite faction...since you know, first Garithos and now Jaina have tried to wipe them out; would you really want to go to back to a group like that?

Edit: Also, watch who you call biased; as anyone on the forum can tell you, I primarily play Alliance, and I loved all of the Shieldwall Offensive except for when I was ordered to kill Blood Elf civilians and non-combatants in the city they thought they were safe in for the last 3 years...till some prophecy bull ^&*! put Jaina in power over the far more experience mages such as Khadgar, Modera or even Aethas himself.

Post by Rankkor

So i recently finished the questline. Operation: Shieldwall.

And during this questline King Varian mentioned he was talking to the sin'dorei to bring them into the alliance..

Is it possible that we will have playable alliance blood elves?, or will they just be a few blood elf npcs that sit around in SW.

As Adamsm mentioned, any chance of blood elves rejoining the alliance just went out the window when they were genocided by Jaina.

Since Jaina went ape %^&* and started slaughtering them, no chance in Hell at this point; she drove them back into the Horde with her stupid idiotic move....I really wish Khadgar would get off his duff, go to Dalaran and !@#$% slap some sense into her already.

Also they deserved it for bombing theramore, and then using dalaran as a gateway to steal from the alliance.

o_O

OHH ITS SO ON! RIGHT NOW!

/cracks knuckles.

First off

A: The sunreavers ARE NOT the same as Silvermoon elves. They were loyal members of the Kirin Tor who have been members of the city for more than 2000 years, helped rebuild it, helped defend it, and helped in the study of the arcane. To point and blame the Sunreavers for the actions of OTHER blood elves, is as stupid and as irresponsible, as blaming the Stormwind Humans, for the actions of the Scarlet Crusade Humans.

B: The Blood Elves were not responsible in any way, shape or form, for the attack on theramoore, AND the Sunreavers were not responsible in any way, shape, or form for the stealing of the Divine Bell. Garrosh is the one behind both. Garrosh has instated a "do what I tell you, or I kill you" policy on the horde, EVERY SINGLE HORDE LEADER was against the attack on Theramoore, but they obeyed because doing otherwise meant death for them and their people.

As for the Sunreavers, they were not a part in any way to the stealing of the divine bell AND DID NOT ALLOWED ANY HORDE FORCES TO GO THROUGH DALARAN.

When you ask Aethas Sunreaver why aren't his forces aiding Silvermoon on the fight against the alliance this is what he has to say. He aids them only in studying a mogu artifact, and even then, when all hell breaks lose, he withdraws his support from even academic research because he WANTS TO STAY NEUTRAL.

The real culprit for the stealing of the divine bell, was a blood elf named Fanlyr Silverthorn, a FORMER sunreaver who couldn't stand to see his homeland in danger from both the alliance, and a crazed warchief who would not hesitate to run it to the ground if the blood elves didn't delivered results. So he quit the Kirin Tor, and became an officer of the Reliquary, Silvermoon's main Archeology division.

It was this blood elf who tapped into the portal network of azeroth with his knowledge of Kirin Tor protocols to bypass the wards made by the alliance and created a portal directly from Domination Point in pandaria, to Darnassus. As seen here and here. AT NO POINT WAS ANY SUNREAVER INVOLVED IN IT WHATSOEVER.

and C: Lets assume for a moment that they are guilty, that for some insane reason they actually were behind the stealing of the divine bell (we've already established that they had nothing to do with THeramoore, in fact, Aethas VOTED FOR JAINA to become the new leader of the Kirin Tor).

You look at me in the eye and tell me this justifies IMPRISONING AND MURDERING CIVILIANS. Go on. Innocent men, women AND FRIKKING CHILDREN who did absolutely nothing wrong.

If you so much as dare to say yes, then you have issues. NOTHING justifies murdering civilians. Nothing.

They were given the choice to leave, they didn't take it.

Ta frick?

Dude they WERE NOT GIVEN THE CHOICE TO LEAVE. They placed the city on lockdown, placed magical wards to prevent anyone from porting out, then KILLED their dragonhawks to prevent them to leave peacefully.

Their only choice was to either go to Jail for a crime they did not commited, or be killed where you stand. Bear in mind that less than 20 years ago (and for a long-lived race like the elves, that may as well been last month) another human jackass (Garithos) did the exact same thing. He laid this option in front of the blood elves "Go to the violet hold peacefully, or we kill you all" And once they obeyed and were thrown into the Violet Hold........... he went ahead and planned to MASS MURDER THEM ALL.

Now fastforward 20 years and here we are, another crazy human tells them to go into the violet hold, or you get shot. LOOK ME IN THE EYE, and tell me its their fault for not wanting to repeat the same mistake.

Don't even get me started on the high elves. Those ungrateful sons of b*****. After all the blood elves did for them (including allowing them to use the sunwell for free) their concept of gratitude is laughable.

The actions of one individual should not effect diplomatic decisions of an entire race, in my opinion.

If you truly believed that nonsense, then according to you, the actions of garrosh (a single individual) should not sour the diplomatic decisions of several races. SHOCK OF SHOCKS, turns out it doesn't work that way.

King Varian is a pretty good diplomat(in my opinion) and i think he would find a way to make things right.. :P

Ohh you mean the varian that blamed Thrall and called him the biggest insult you could do for an orc (Accused him of Cowardice) at a diplomatic meeting, just because the Twilight Hammer attacked?

You mean the same varian, who on the Trial of the Crusade gets offended that Garrosh accused him of something without proof and demands to fight horde champions against his (apparently, its ok for him to point fingers without proof, but when someone else does, THEY NEED TO APOLOGIZE DAMMIT)

You mean the same varian who to this day has refused to apologize to thrall for wrongly accusing him of staging the attack on the theramoore peace summit, yet demanded Thrall to apologize for the attack on night elven sentinels even though the horde didn't do it?

You mean the same Varian who, despite everyone addresing him by title, refuses the same courtesy to everyone else?

You mean the same Varian who...... ohh this could go on for days.

>_>

Post by Berronaxwins

Major horde fanboy ^

Post by Adamsm

Major horde fanboy ^

And comments like this just paint you as an Alliance Fanboy, so watch the terms.

Please, refute mine or Rank's comments, and show us how the entire Blood Elf population of Dalaran deserved to be wiped out. Until you can do that, keep the insults to yourself.

Post by Sas148

I think blood elves are gonna end up like pandaren, playable by both factions.

Major horde fanboy ^

And comments like this just paint you as an Alliance Fanboy, so watch the terms.

Please, refute mine or Rank's comments, and show us how the entire Blood Elf population of Dalaran deserved to be wiped out. Until you can do that, keep the insults to yourself.

They didn't deserve to be wiped out, they brought that upon themselves by refusing to leave.

And i wasn't insulting anyone in my opinion, i just thnk you guys are only seeing the hordes point of view and not the alliances..

i'm not an alliance fanboy by any means, i just think you guys are going to so much trouble to defend the blood elves when they had a major part in the attack against theramore.

But well, we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Back on topic; if King Varian was discussing with the sin'dorei to bring them into the alliance, and i know jainas actions may have shattered any chance of that, but is it not possible with enough negotiations & time that he will eventualy bring them into the alliance?

Post by Adamsm

They didn't deserve to be wiped out, they brought that upon themselves by refusing to leave.

But why should they have left? That's like saying that any of the neutrals should get out of contested territory just because they happen to have opposite faction people in their ranks. The Sunreavers have been in Dalaran since Wrath of the Lich King, helping to fight against the evils of the world....and because of a few bad eggs, that means the entire group should be cast out? Then I guess with that logic, every single Horde race should be allowed to Hate the Alliance for all time, and that Alliance should be allowed to Hate the Horde too.

And i wasn't insulting anyone in my opinion, i just thnk you guys are only seeing the hordes point of view and not the alliances..

No we're not...since you know, Jaina and Vereesa decided to kill civilians in Dalaran....

i'm not an alliance fanboy by any means, i just think you guys are going to so much trouble to defend the blood elves when they had a major part in the attack against theramore.

Yes, Blood Elves in the Horde did.....But that is not what the Sunreavers are; please please please please learn the difference before you decide to debate things.

But well, we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Actually we don't; you've been saying incorrect information, so why should we agree to that?

Back on topic; if King Varian was discussing with the sin'dorei to bring them into the alliance, and i know jainas actions may have shattered any chance of that, but is it not possible with enough negotiations & time that he will eventualy bring them into the alliance?

No; first Garithos and now Jaina, both humans have tried to wipe them out, Vereesa is a high ranking Alliance general who has a massive hatred of the Blood Elves, and the BE's themselves aren't going to be fooled again by false promises. If anything, could see the Blood Elves splitting from both factions and telling everyone to go !@#$ themselves, they are tired of being used as targets and fodder for wars.

Post by Skreeran

I think blood elves are gonna end up like pandaren, playable by both factions.

That's a negative.

Major horde fanboy ^

And comments like this just paint you as an Alliance Fanboy, so watch the terms.

Please, refute mine or Rank's comments, and show us how the entire Blood Elf population of Dalaran deserved to be wiped out. Until you can do that, keep the insults to yourself.

They didn't deserve to be wiped out, they brought that upon themselves by refusing to leave.As Rank pointed out, they weren't letting them leave. They specifically started culling their dragonhawks to prevent them from leaving.

On top of that, it wasn't "The Kirin Tor" who decided to kick imprison the Sunreavers. Aethas is a member of the Six, after all. I was a unilateral move by Jaina.

Post by Rankkor

Major horde fanboy ^

Nice, rather than provide any counter-arguments for what I've said, you just backed out and called me a fanboy.

You know, if I was such a thing, I would had just refused to address your points. instead I provided proof for what I claimed. Can you even prove anything you say?

They didn't deserve to be wiped out, they brought that upon themselves by refusing to leave.

While you could say they could had just chosen B, I also reminded you that less than 20 years ago, ANOTHER HUMAN also offered them the exact same choice. Go to the Violet Hold, or I kill you all, and after they peacefully went to jail, they were all stated to be executed.

Then you have the balls to call me a fanboy? how in heavens name is that being a fanboy? when you keep insisting they were allowed to leave yet refuse to provide proof of it.

Back on topic; if King Varian was discussing with the sin'dorei to bring them into the alliance, and i know jainas actions may have shattered any chance of that, but is it not possible with enough negotiations & time that he will eventualy bring them into the alliance?

the answer is still a rotund and solid NO. Jaina commited an attrocity against the blood elves, and got away scot free. Not only did she offered no apologies for her completely unjustified attack, she hasn't faced any repercussions whatsoever. None, not even a frikking parking ticket.

The very reason the blood elves left the alliance in the first place, was because another human (Garithos) did the same thing, and also got away with it (though in the end Karma got to him)

i'm not an alliance fanboy by any means

of course not, you just love to say stuff without anything to back it up but hot air, such as "they were allowed to leave and they refused" even though there is an alliance quest to KILL THEIR DRAGONHAWKS so they don't leave. Then say stuff like "They had a major part on the theramoore attack" when in reality the SUNREAVERS had absolutely no part in it whatsoever, and refused to be involved in the war, with Aethas Sunreaver himself voting for jaina to be elected as the new leader of the Council of Six.

Dude, when you say things, refuse to provide proof of your claims, and dismiss the proof of others as fanboyism, then you are......... something that starts with an F and ends with an Y.

I just think you guys are going to so much trouble to defend the blood elves when they had a major part in the attack against theramore.

ohh please. Major part? seriously? MAJOR? Even if that was true (and its not, the bulk of the attack was by orcs, goblins and taurens. Read Tides of War before making up claims please) the sunreavers ARE NOT THE SAME BLOOD ELVES.

as I also pointed out in my post before you blatantly ignored it and called me a fanboy, here's a reminder:

To point and blame the Sunreavers for the actions of OTHER blood elves, would be as stupid and as irresponsible, as blaming the Stormwind Humans, for the actions of the Scarlet Crusade Humans.

The sunreavers had nothing NOTHING to do with the attack on theramoore. And they also had NOTHING to do with the stealing of the divine bell. In my previous post, I provided proof of both, and you can either refute my points, or admit you're wrong. Don't just say "lets agree to disagree" when you haven't provided anything at all into the discussion, other than finger-pointing and spewing hot air with nothing to back it up.

Post by Sas148

Ok and thats your view, i do not agree with it but i cant change it.

I think it's gonna happen. People have wanted High Elves or Blood Elves for the alliance for a long time now and a lot of the lore supports it happening.

So yeah, it's gonna happen.

And..

Ok fine, jaina murderd the blood elves in dalaran, she didn't kill any children tho so i have no idea why you said that.

And even if we wanted to punish jaina for her crimes, how would we? she could wipe out an entire city just by spitting on it..

Somebody just needs to calm her down, and i think with the next patch it will be Anduin who does it.

Post by Berronaxwins

And yes, i'm wrong, i don't know much about lore, i only know what i have seen from doing the questline and in my opinion after the attack on theramore i would of done the same thing as jaina did..

However i wouldn't of killed people i would of polymorphed them and then carried them to prison (lol :D)

I have yet to level up a horde and see their point of view on this whole thing so excuse my lack of knowledge, i only made this thread because after seeing varian talk about bringin the sin'dorei into the alliance i thought it may be possible in the future blood elves will be playable as alliance..

but tbh i think it will be high elves.

Post by Rankkor

Before I answer your points, lemme say that you don't need to triple-post, if you want to add something else to what you've already said, just click on the "Edit" button on your post and add the info there. It clutters up the threads needlessly when the same person in a row posts multiple times.

Now, onto what you wrote.

Ok and thats your view, i do not agree with it but i cant change it.

But the thing is you're not even bothering to counter it. Again, you say they were allowed to leave, I linked to you a quest where very specifically you are told to not let them leave. So what are you basing yourself on to say otherwise?

I think it's gonna happen. People have wanted High Elves or Blood Elves for the alliance for a long time now and a lot of the lore supports it happening.

But that's the thing, the lore DOES NOT supports it. Think back for a second, why did the blood elves left the alliance? they were a part of it during Warcraft 1 and 2, so why leave? because a human general accused them all of a crime they did not committed, then threw them all in jail, every man, woman and child, and then tried to mass execute them all. This is the reason they left the alliance. Now, here we are, 20 years later, they decide to give the alliance another shot, you know, forgive and forget, and what happens? ANOTHER HUMAN, does the exact same thing.

you must be familiar with the saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". Jaina just vaporized any chance WHATSOEVER of blood elves EVER joining the alliance. EVER.

So yeah, it's gonna happen.

No its not, and I already told you why.

Ok fine, jaina murderd the blood elves in dalaran, she didn't kill any children tho so i have no idea why you said that.

Because while this is a T-rated game, and therefore we don't have any onscreen children deaths, they still happen. Dalaran is not a military fortress, its a city, there were civilians there, non-combatants, families, where there are families, there are children. If the children weren't killed, they were thrown in jail. Either option is unacceptable. NOTHING justifies harming the children. Not for alliance, not for horde, not for anyone.

One of the reasons the forsakens are now considered full blown villains is due to how they treated the people of gilneas during the invasion. Sure we didn't saw it in the game, but lorewise, people don't just pop out of the ground, people are born, there were families in gilneas, and undoubtedly children too. Children who suffered greatly at the hands of the forsaken, fully cementing their position as black on the morality scale.

What? I may be horde-aligned, that doesn't mean I will act like a fanboy and justify everything they do, the horde HAS done bad stuff. I wont deny it, but the sunreavers were 100% innocent of what they were accused of doing.

And even if we wanted to punish jaina for her crimes, how would we? she could wipe out an entire city just by spitting on it..

Erm no, she's still a mortal, she can still be put down. If we could kill Kael who was just as much of a powerful mage as she is, and if Antonidas, who was FAR MORE powerful than she could ever hope to be, also died, she can as well.

Somebody just needs to calm her down, and i think with the next patch it will be Anduin who does it.

I wanna believe that, but its not gonna happen. I've played blizzard games long enough to recognize a pattern when I see one. When a character starts going down the slippery rope, they just go all the way down, there's no redemption down the line. Arthas murdered civilians to stop the plague spread? he became a full villain. Maiev murdered night elf civilians cuz she hates mages? she's now a wanted criminal. Sylvannas murdered people to raise them as forsaken? she's now considered VERY evil.

Jaina is the same. This is her fall, and there's nowhere else for her to go but further down. I'll be surprised if it doesn't happen, but knowing blizz and how predictable they've become with their narrative, she's screwed.

And yes, i'm wrong, i don't know much about lore, i only know what i have seen from doing the questline.

If you did the questline, then why do you insist they were allowed to leave? one of the alliance quests on the purge of dalaran is to kill their dragonhawks precisely so they cannot leave peacefully. Notice also, that the majority of the blood elves didn't even attacked, they were just scared, and confused about what the f**k was going on and why was this crazy woman shooting everyone left and right.

and in my opinion after the attack on theramore i would of done the same thing as jaina did.

Really? so if a japanese terrorist group killed all your family, you would go on a rampage and murder every single japanese person you see simply because you want a scapegoat? That's............ pretty horrible man :S I hope you didn't really mean that. I really do.

The Sunreaver Blood Elves are not, and never have been responsible in any way for the attack on theramoore or the stealing of the divine bell. Jaina just looked for the nearest scapegoat to vent her rage on. Blaming Sunreaver elves for what Silvermoon elves do, would be as unfair as if someone blamed Stormwind Humans, for what the Scarlet Crusade humans do.

Don't paint them all with the same brush. That's despicable.

However i wouldn't of killed people i would of polymorphed them and then carried them to prison (lol :D)

Lorewise, spells don't work the same as in the game. From a lore point of view, Polymorph drains a lot out of a person's mana reserve, and has to be maintained continuously to keep the victim transformed. Dalaran has a population of at least 40000 civilians (even if in the game this is scaled down to prevent lag issues). Roughly half of those are blood elves. You try to keep polymorphed 20000 extremely angry blood elves, who've been backed into a corner and forced to fight for their lives. Its easier said than done.

I have yet to level up a horde and see their point of view on this whole thing so excuse my lack of knowledge

You can be forgiven if you can admit that you're not right all the time. it happens, I've been proven wrong about a lot of stuff here. We discuss the lore by offering our opinion, and then offering something to back it up. either a quest, or a part of a book, or a comic, ect. The game has a very extensive Expanded Universe material (including books, comics, monster manuals, ect) that has a lot of info you usually can't find in the game.

i only made this thread because after seeing varian talk about bringin the sin'dorei into the alliance i thought it may be possible in the future blood elves will be playable as alliance..

And I tell you, its not. They left because a madman tried to kill them all. They tried to come back, and another nutjob tried to kill them all AGAIN. They're not gonna bite the bait another time.

but tbh i think it will be high elves.

This could be possible. I hope its possible, so I can personally murder as many of these traitorous ungrateful bastards myself. >_>

Post by Sas148

I really hope Jaina doesnt become the next killable raidboss >.>..

Would be nice to have a little redemption storyline possiby involving thrall and the spirits of passed fallen heroes such as uther and arthas (yes i said arthas)..

If you go ahead to 19:55 and start watching from there, it really does make me think that there will be a possible return of arthas, not in a physical manifestation but maybe Anduin with his power over the light will be able to summon arthas' spirit to calm jaina down and make her see the path of destruction she is going down and sway her from it, before it's to late

Post by morginar

I really hope Jaina doesnt become the next killable raidboss >.>..

Would be nice to have a little redemption storyline possiby involving thrall and the spirits of passed fallen heroes such as uther and arthas (yes i said arthas)..

I disagree, hope she dies... In a fire.

On a related note is there any possibilty of the Quel'Dorei joining the horde?