FarkedOver:GoldSpider: vygramul: No one brought down the Soviets. They did it to themselves. Their system simply.stopped.working.

Communism works just fine without outside influences poisoning the well. Or so I hear.

The theory is it should be an international movement. Socialism in one country (i.e. Stalinism) is bogus and anti-marxist by it's very nature.

Yes and no. Marx thought one country could be communist without the whole world being communist. But few ideologies state that it's the best for us but won't work for you. They all pretty much claim to be the best for everyone period.

UNC_Samurai:Yes, the "dancing on their grave" attitude is an easy trap to fall into.

Yes, you are a better person for avoiding it.

No, wanting to ensure there's an accurate historical assessment of someone's record even in the immediate post-death period where the public "mourns" is not excessive; it's entirely appropriate, because that's when a person's legacy starts really getting heavily filtered.

Without giving the obvious examples, there are very rare occasions where someone so vile and whose existence diminished us as a species dies, and it's tough not to savor the end of their existence. For many Vietnam veterans, that was McNamara or Westmoreland. For Romanians, it was Ceaușescu. For Doctor Who fans, it will be Michael Ian Grade.

I was too young and an American, so I don't have the first-hand perspective of the British who lived during her Ministry. But from historical analysis, I can understand and sympathize with the people who today feel their country is better off without her. I'm sure the same will happen the day Americans find out Dick Cheney has died.

How DARE you bring some kind of balanced and calmly rational observations into this thread, sir!

/not going to bother reading seven more comment pages of gushing by either side//divisive leader, divisive post-death fark thread///Fred Rogers needs to die more often, just to bring different people together in mourning

"Her state funeral is going to cost nine million pounds. For that much money, you could buy a shovel and give it to every single Scottish person and we'd dig a hole deep enough that you could deliver her to Satan personally."

I didn't realize Hell was that close to the surface. Must make drilling for oil rather exciting.

So you personally profit not only from the labor of others but off of putting up barriers to many poor people obtaining medicine?

Personally profiting and making a living are two different things.

How?

Profit implies surplus. Making a living means I don't want to die by starving or being exposed to the elements. I work because I have to. Owners of industry make obscene profits because..... 90 million is better than 89 million!!! Fark my workers!

So you have no consumer goods in your house?

How did we get to consumer goods? People think of socialism and communism and the abolition of private property as a bad thing. They think commies are going to come in and seize their xbox or take their watch all in the name of the people. The abolition of private property simply means to abolish private property that is used to exploit workers. Let workers run the factories and produce consumer goods.

vygramul:muck4doo: Challenge ran again. Where did I ever laugh at Kennedy dieing or any popular lib. Go ahead, find it. Some of you act so disgusting in pretend of what has happened before.

You're expressing disgust at libs. That suggests you think conservatives don't do it. So it's not a matter of finding something YOU said, but if there's a number of such dancing on graves of liberals. (Obviously, one or two comments wouldn't be enough.)

Let's pick one. Name a liberal politician who died recently and warranted a thread on fark. Let us see if there were conservatives crowing. If there were, you should amend your complaint to people in general who do this, not just level your ire at liberals while ignoring conservatives who do the same thing.

/I had a drink when Osama got nailed//I'll have a drink when Castro finally gets to meet his maker

If Fark conservatives are doing it too, it is disgusting, and they should be thrown to the trash. I really don't get the hate. Libs and Cons both want to try to improve the country in different ways. Neither goes into their thinking that they want to destroy the country. When we start looking at each other that we're done. Funny thing I have noticed, loony far left and loony far right often find themselves agreeing on things.

So you personally profit not only from the labor of others but off of putting up barriers to many poor people obtaining medicine?

Personally profiting and making a living are two different things.

How?

Profit implies surplus. Making a living means I don't want to die by starving or being exposed to the elements. I work because I have to. Owners of industry make obscene profits because..... 90 million is better than 89 million!!! Fark my workers!

So you have no consumer goods in your house?

How did we get to consumer goods? People think of socialism and communism and the abolition of private property as a bad thing. They think commies are going to come in and seize their xbox or take their watch all in the name of the people. The abolition of private property simply means to abolish private property that is used to exploit workers. Let workers run the factories and produce consumer goods.

muck4doo:vygramul: muck4doo: Challenge ran again. Where did I ever laugh at Kennedy dieing or any popular lib. Go ahead, find it. Some of you act so disgusting in pretend of what has happened before.

You're expressing disgust at libs. That suggests you think conservatives don't do it. So it's not a matter of finding something YOU said, but if there's a number of such dancing on graves of liberals. (Obviously, one or two comments wouldn't be enough.)

Let's pick one. Name a liberal politician who died recently and warranted a thread on fark. Let us see if there were conservatives crowing. If there were, you should amend your complaint to people in general who do this, not just level your ire at liberals while ignoring conservatives who do the same thing.

/I had a drink when Osama got nailed//I'll have a drink when Castro finally gets to meet his maker

If Fark conservatives are doing it too, it is disgusting, and they should be thrown to the trash. I really don't get the hate. Libs and Cons both want to try to improve the country in different ways. Neither goes into their thinking that they want to destroy the country. When we start looking at each other that we're done. Funny thing I have noticed, loony far left and loony far right often find themselves agreeing on things.

FarkinNortherner:Even if you applauded her policies, even if you think that the miners' strike had to be broken by any means, even if you think privatisation is the only appropriate response to the use of state assets, there's still this:

Margaret Thatcher with Augusto Pinochet, in 1999. Google 'DINA' if you don't know anything about Pinochet's time in government and/or you want to spend the day feeling nauseated.

It's also a pretty good illustration of ad hominem. Nobody is addressing his argument; they're berating his job and retirement plan.

The argument is that he's a hypocrite.

Thank you for making my point.

How can his point be valid if he's not living it?

Just because someone doesn't practice what they preach does not automatically invalidate what they preach.

It just means they don't believe it ;-)

Lenin had a good quote regarding "principles". He actually signed peace treaties with capitalist nations to conclude WWI on the Russian front. Was it the right thing to do ideologically? Of course not. Was it the right thing to do strategically? Of course. Living in a capitalist society means people on the (far) left have to exist within its frame work and some times have to do capitalist things. Even if I had a robust retirement account, would that be bad for me when I can no longer work and take care of myself? Of course it wouldn't be bad strategically, ideologically it sucks but you have to do what you have to do. I don't begrudge any comrade with a 401k or a PS3. I begrudge anyone who actively seeks to exploit and dominate others for accumulating wealth as some sort of fetish.

. Libs and Cons both want to try to improve the country in different ways. Neither goes into their thinking that they want to destroy the country. When we start looking at each other that we're done. Funny thing I have noticed, loony far left and loony far right often find themselves agreeing on things.

Man, stop saying things like this, they are demonstrably false.You have a very, very naïve world view if these are your true opinions.