UNITEDRANT

Evra stands tall in the cauldron of Liverpool’s hate

The match did not conclude well for Patrice Evra, with the Manchester United captain allowing Dirk Kuyt to run inside and score Liverpool’s winning goal at the Kop End on Saturday. Indeed, by the end of a tortuous 90 minutes Evra looked mentally and physically shattered; beaten both by his opponents and fatigue. Yet, at no moment was the French defender defeated by the melting pot of vile – at times overtly racist – hatred directed by Liverpool’s supporters. Standing proud to the end, Evra’s side may have lost an FA Cup fourth round encounter, but the defender completed the game riding the highest of horses.

Catalysed by Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool’s hierarchy, Anfield’s regulars jeered the United number three’s every touch. This much was expect given the extent to which Liverpool has sought to, and largely succeeded in, regressing race relations at the club over the past three months. Few stood back from the organised cacophony; hate was not only directed at Evra, but deemed universally acceptable.

“There’s only one lying b*stard,” sang the Kop, echoing Liverpool’s ongoing defence of Luis Suárez – that Evra simply fabricated an allegation of racial abuse in October. This was a song delivered without irony, given that Dalglish, Suárez, Kuyt, and director of football Damien Commoli were each caught changing their stories to the independent Regulatory Commission that sat in judgement of the Liverpool striker.

Yet, it was no surprise that Liverpool manager Dalglish chose to categorise 90 minutes of abuse as nothing more than “friendly banter.” After all, the 60-year-old Scot has proven to be as unreconstructed as they come, having chosen to smear Evra, as Dalglish’s own evidence to the Commission demonstrated, right from the very start of the affair back in October.

While the atmosphere was deeply unpleasant, far worse was to come from Liverpool’s once proud supporters than mere noise. Shortly before half-time one supporter was caught on camera aiming a ‘monkey gesture‘ towards Evra. It was an image posted on this site, and to Twitter. Within minutes the picture had spread throughout the football community.

Merseyside Police confirmed on Saturday evening that a 59-year-old man from North Wales was arrested following an ‘alleged’ incident at the match. The supporter was taken to a local station for questioning.

Yet, there has been not a word from Liverpool about the incident. So quick to launch a smear campaign against Evra, the Football Association or any other party deemed to have wronged the club; so reticent to decry racism in genuine terms.

One wonders whether the club will ever come to understand the very real damaged caused by its reaction to Suárez’ sanction. Liverpool, and Dalglish in particular, not only failed to apologise for the striker’s racist abuse, but the club has now sponsored a new wave of race hate among its fan-base. The latest incident is the third this season, beginning with Suárez, and including the disgraceful abuse of Oldham Athletic defender Tom Adeyemi earlier this month.

In keeping with the pattern, Dalglish praised Liverpool’s supporters on Saturday.

“The fans are entitled to support their team, absolutely no problem,” claimed Dalglish on Saturday.

“I don’t think there was anything there that was untoward. I think both sets of fans were a magnificent advert for their clubs. Both clubs can be very proud of the fans they have here. There was a good bit of banter between both fans, which is brilliant because you don’t want to take that away.”

But the genuine concern is that Evra’s contemporaries will now be less inclined to report incidents of racial abuse given the furious reaction extracted from Liverpool supporters by their club. It is a concern touched on by a media community now growing restless at Liverpool’s approach to race relations.

“I found it horrible, I found it a very difficult day to report on,” Sunday Times journalist Jonathan Northcroft told Sunday Supplement.

“I live in Liverpool and my partner is black and she’s found this very uncomfortable. We know black friends who are Liverpool fans and they’ve also found it very uncomfortable. What we had yesterday was a black player being booed and barracked and targeted by the Liverpool fans and called a liar. And for what? His crime was to have complained about racial abuse the last time he was at the stadium. That particular case was upheld by an FA commission, but he’s being targeted and treated as a villain.”

Meanwhile, Evra, although clearly drained by the fixture’s intensity, reacted not once to the bile from the stands. Indeed, the 30-year-old has behaved with a quiet dignity throughout, keeping largely silent in the face of supporter-driven hatred, and media scrutiny.

But Evra’s silence has only been in the public sphere, behind the scenes the Frenchman proved not only to be a forthright and credible witness, but a genuine leader. Yet, with the defender so heavily abused just a day after QPR player Anton Ferdinand was sent a bullet in the post – presumably by a disgruntled Chelsea supporter – questions will be asked about football’s ability to deal with racism in the future.

“Are we saying if you make a complaint about racial abuse you’re going to get a bullet sent through the post to you or you’re going to get called a liar by 40,000 fans?” added the Mirror’s Oliver Holt.

“We’re trying to empower black players not to put up with this any more, and yet we are in danger – because of the reaction that has happened and the vilification of players who have done nothing except complain about being racially abused – of pushing things back to a conspiracy of silence.”

In this Liverpool is highly culpable, as is the FA for allowing one of the country’s most venerated club’s to become a force not for unity, but division.

“Football at times can be like pantomime, you can boo the referee if you feel he makes a bad decision and you boo a player if you feel he has feigned an injury or made a bad tackle and you can live with that,” PFA chairman Gordon Taylor told talkSPORT.

“But when you are booing a player because he has made a complaint that was upheld by an independent panel, you worry that it is going to put off anybody complaining again because of the backlash and furore we have seen.

“That’s just what we don’t want because there is no point in having a campaign to eliminate such a highly sensitive issue as racism if it is going to get drowned out by the backlash.”

In that there is a lesson. Suárez’ punishment may have sent the proverbial message that racist abuse on the pitch is not acceptable. Perhaps it is now time for the Uruguayan’s club to face a similar judgement.

104 comments

Liverpool have done themselves no favours here… I can see a lot more of this negative press coming… I can see a lot of fans reconsidering their allegience… I can see them losing out on talent, black and white… and as far as the game itself… even though, I can see some black players reluctant to speak out about future abuse… I can also see some who will refuse to be cowed, and even more determined to defend their honour, as well as white team mates who are also fed up to the back teeth with these vile cunts.

We’ll never completely get rid of racism, any more than we’ll completely get rid of stupidity… but sometimes it takes something like this, to fire up the apathetic majority into action… to at least drive the racist minority back into the shadows where they belong.

Like I have said before I lost some love for football yesterday. Racism won a battle yesterday. I felt quite alone in my thoughts especially when I heard people talk and respond to the actions of LFC and brush it off as such things as “just banter”. I’m quite heartened by the response of some journalists and felt better having challenged some of the apathetic people I spoke to. But this incident from start to finish has been bigger than football and sadly the outcome so far has left a lot to be desired. Take football out of the context/back drop of this incident and the actions and response of the institution and people of LFC is appalling. To treat a black man who stood up against racism in this manner makes me sick.

Dave – you’re boring me going over the same old ground. Repeated posts spouting the party line. You’re a cultist along with about 90% of LFC supporters.

There was plenty of evidence – I have, as you asked, read the report. The most damning evidence was given by your players and manager – contracting Suarez’ lies. A QC and two ex pros found on the balance of probabilities that Suarez was guilty. That was what was required under the framework set down by FA rules. Case closed. The final word. Please head on back to Liverpool and live in your own denial.

Racist abuse of Evra, racist abuse of Tom Adeyemi, monkey gestures in the stands, 40,000 people jeering a black guy for reporting racism, monkey gestures on LFC TV. KKKenny thinks its all just good banter. Its starting to look like a pattern developing here.

Dave -
January 31, 2012

Racist abuse of Adeyemi? No evidence and as yet no charge.
The man on Saturday? No evidence other than a split second snapshot and as yet no charge.
Suarez. No evidence but charged on a probability.

You’re right, there is a theme.

And you keep ignoring that we booed him for lying, stop twisting it so it fits your agenda: it does you no credit.

I could go on about the translation issue with Kuyt and Commoli but you’re not listening.

Dave – please stop being so patronising. I can do that too if you’d like to go down that route. No evidence, no evidence, no evidence you keep saying but had this been a civil trial Suarez’ guilt would have been no less. (And the outcome no different). It was always about the balance of probabilities. If you don’t like, LFC can always quit the Premier League. Maybe you’d actually win something in Scotland?

LFC fans may have booed him for “lying” (as you like to say there’s no evidence for that) but actually what it was was 40,000 white people booing a black guy for exercising his right to complain about something racist said to him.

Dave -
January 31, 2012

And quite happy to have the debate by email: you’ve got my address.
I won’t change your mind, and that’s fine, but I can at least explain the Liverpool standpoint. Which is spectacularly NOT racist.

Dave – there’s really no point. I’m utterly bemused by Liverpool’s standpoint, which has done terrible things for race relations in this country. It may not be racist by intent, but the outcome of LFC’s actions, and then fans too, is awful. You don’t see it because you’re a partizan – that’s understandable – but so much damage has been done.

The balance of probabilities is the standard level of evidence required in any civil hearing in the UK. Without such a balance no action would ever be successfully achieved. To question the balance of probabilities is to question 1000 years of legal proceedings.

Dave -
January 31, 2012

Incorrect.
Probability is established by evidence, and there is none in this case.
You make it sound like they’ll rule on gut instinct if they think one scenario sounds more plausible than the other.

Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit.

And you’re all welcome to debate it more by email. No abuse will be given, just rationale debate.
You keep saying things like ‘don’t understand Liverpool acting like this’ and the like. I’ll help explain.

Dave – “lack of understanding” is not based on a requirement for explanation. That’s twice you’ve tried to patronise me now. Do I need to whip out my academic, business and intellectual credentials for the mighty Dave? Let’s clarify: I am dumbfounded at Liverpool’s behaviour, which has caused huge damage to race relations and made a once proud club a laughing stock. I’m a United fan, but Liverpool is/was a great global institution.

Your insistence that “there is no evidence” is quite ridiculous, factually incorrect and 115 pages of thorough analysis later, incomprehensible as a position. What you mean is there’s no smoking gun. There didn’t need to be. The burden of proof, was the “Balance of probabilities” – more likely than not – and on the balance of probabilities Suarez was guilty. Did he call Evra negro? Tick. Was he offensive? Tick. Case closed. It was closed as soon as Suarez opened his mouth. The evidence from Evra, Kuyt, Comoli, the referee, language experts and Dalglish was compelling and damning. The evidence that Evra flat-out lied: none.

Dave -
January 31, 2012

Im not sure why the offer of having an email debate to explain the liverpool stand point is seen as an attempt to patronise.

And no he never called Evra ‘negro’.
They were speaking Spanish so he called him ‘black’.
It’s that kind of gross misinterpretation that keeps forcing me to respond.
I’m sure you’re very well qualified, and no need to get your certificates out.
I’m also sure you’ve not read the report as you keep getting the fundamentals totally wrong.

Dave – This is really frustrating. No, you’re getting the fundamentals wrong. Deliberately, or out of blind faith, but its still very wrong. Suarez did call him negro – black – and in whatever language, in the context, it was offensive. Two highly qualified language experts gave reams of evidence to this effect. Unless you’re telling me that you’re a Spanish language expert? No, I thought not. In any case I’m now drawing this to a close. We’re returning to issues debated, and then found in fact by the commission. You don’t like it. Tough luck. My piece was about the disgraceful reaction by Liverpool and the club’s fans. In this the club is now isolated and roundly condemned. For your own sake wake up, smell the coffee.

Dave -
February 1, 2012

But the reaction is determined by the facts and lack of evidence.
Negro or black is a massive massive difference, not just a triviality to be dismissed out of hand.
The official complaint was made by Ferguson who said Evra had been called ‘ni**er’ 5 times.
That changed when they realised he’d mis-translated the Spanish word ‘negro’ or black.
I’m sure Evra was offended, but it was because he mis-translated.
And the punishment was down to the number of times he claimed he heard it.
They settled on 7 despite no evidence of anything other than 1.
THAT is the basis for our support of Suarez.

Dave – in the context ‘negro’ or ‘black’ is not a massive difference at all. Either way the word was intended to offend, and offend on the basis of race, because Suarez wanted to wind Evra up. Called him ‘black’ – Suarez’ own admission – pinched him, and then slapped him on the back of his head. It was a pattern of behaviour that was, in the commission’s words, wholly unacceptable.

The punishment was not down to the volume at all. It was broken down in the report after all. I thought you’d read it? Four games for offensive language under breach of rule Rule E3(2) – this is the minimum entry point under the rule. Thne a multiple of two was added for the aggravating factor of race. It’s a personal opinion but I think Suarez got off very lightly. I’d have applied the punishment per offence, taking volume into account. Eight matches times seven. The commission didn’t.

This is my point when I said earlier the case was decided as soon as Suarez opened his mouth. There’s not a court, tribunal or panel, under the balance of probabilities, that wouldn’t have found the same way the FA did. Did he use offensive language? Tick. Did he use offensive language including reference to Evra’s race? Tick? Was it in the context of an argument and therefore likely to be deliberately offensive? Tick.

As for email – I don’t see why this can’t be public. Or are you embarrassed about your position. You should be. Any other indefensibles you’d like to defend while you’re at it?

Dave -
February 1, 2012

Poor arguing Ed!
To resort to “are you embarassed about your position” after all we’ve been through is deeply disappointing. I expected better!
Especially when you’ve provided such good sport by getting verifiable facts wrong time after time.

The commission’s language experts stated that referring to someone as “black” eg, “why Black?” is not racist in South American culture and in their language. Their opinion was that if offense was meant it’s usually accompanied by another word. For example, “negro de mierda” or “shitty black”.
Negro has very bad connotations associated with the slave trade, and is a word that black people object to strongly.
Call someone a negro and you’re likely to get some kind of comeuppance.
Call someone black alone is not likely to cause much offence.

Now “why Black” is clearly something that South Americans think is inoffensive. Personally, I don’t really care. If Evra was offended by it, case closed. Suarez needed to learn that language in Montevideo isn’t necessarily acceptable here. If the FA had made that statement then I’d have no issue.
What I have issue with is that they’ve then taken on several more instances of supposed racist comments with no evidence at all. One man’s word against another. In that situation you are innocent until proved guilty and there was no evidence that he was guilty, despite being in a crowded goal-mouth with a dozen cameras on them.

You can have a view on whether you think “why Black?” deserved a ban, and that’s entirely your right. Suarez admits to saying that, and that’s the only evidence we have.
What you cannot say is that it’s a fact Suarez then said it or similar another 6 times.

The word “slap” doesn’t appear in the report once.
The FA Rules (from the report):
Insulting language – 2 match ban
Which includes racist langauge – additional 2 matches – so an entry point of 4 match ban.
(this bit is a direct quote)
“The first aggravating factor was the number of times Mr Suarez used the word “negro” or
“negros””.
So there were other factors, but the number of times was the first they included in deciding the penalty.
So you’re wrong.
Again.
Perhaps you should ditch the 150 page report you’ve got and read the proper 115 page one?

Dave – Four times now you’ve taken the patronising me in order to get across a point. Four times too many and for the final time. This debate is now finished, this is the most time and space I’ve ever given a Liverpool fan here. You’ve had reams of space to deliberately, systematically, and with no small degree of insincerity, defend racism. You’ve had a good run, but it’s now over.

So let’s be clear for the final time because you’re simply factually wrong and deliberately misrepresenting the report in almost every sentence. I’m pretty sure you’re not stupid, it’s deliberate. I’m bored of it, and especially bored of you. You also have a very poor command of English civil law, despite using quasi-legal language. Let’s be clear – this was a commission, working under the framework of civil law. It was based on finding facts, not guilt or innocence. On the balance of probabilities, not degrees of doubt. You think you’re a language expert, a legal expert, a mind reader, and most offensively, a historian. Jack of all trades, master of absolutely none.

But to the point – there is no multiple for the number aggravating factors in the judgement. There is simply – aggravation and a 2x multiple applied for that aggravation, no matter the volume. Use of reference to colour was the aggravating factor. The commission believes it was 7 multiples, but the penalty would have been the same with 1. That is clearly laid down in the FA’s framework for rule E3. As I said, I think it should have taken account the 7 and Suarez been handed a much stiffer penalty. Your boy was lucky because the commission could have.

But that’s all by the bye. You keep arguing this point as if your viewpoint is justification for the vile abuse of Patrice Evra on Saturday. It’s simply another smokescreen. “That’s why we booed him…” etc. It’s moral equivalence. Even the Liverpool fans, like yourself, that don’t resort to direct racism, or four letter words, or monkey chanting, engage in it. Everybody is victimising your poor club, so that’s why you have to lash out. 40,000 white guys jeering a black guy was a disgrace. It’s why nobody respects your club any more. They should shut Anfield until enlightenment reaches the city.

no one can condone racist behaviour and i am sure that KD was unaware of the alleged “monkey ” insult by the old welsh bloke when he made his banter remark.LFC will ban him sine die, just like the twat who abused the Oldham player.
However, Evra started the whole affair by taunting Suarez about his sister being a whore, might have been better if LS had done a Zidane and decked him. I have never liked Evra, loathsome individual, a proper wind up merchant! but it is nothing to do with his colour, or his complaint, I feel the same about Paul Scholes and wayne rooney! I also suspect that there are a few racists amongst the 76000 regulars at OT, no-one can police a pillock!!

Nev the red – one of the few comments from a Liverpool supporter that almost sticks the the topic of the article. Almost, because you still have to get an excuse in. But tell me one thing – when has Scholes ever been jeered by the Anfield crowd?

A good piece on what has gone on. I wont call all the liverpool racists because that is not the case. Their problem is they hang on every word that comes out of Dalglish’s mouth. The blame for all that has gone on lays at his door by the way he has handled this from the outset and to a lesser extent the club for not doing anything to reel dalglish in with the t-shirt and comments made etc.I havent spoken to one lfc fan who doesnt think evra lied. That is all down to kenny and his total support for suarez.

By playing in that game and facing 30 odd thousand cunts shouting negrito and other racist shit, and doing monkey chants, and chanting about how he’s a liar… he showed more balls than any United player has in recent memory
More than Ronaldo’s comeback post-World Cup, more than Cantona’s return
He’s set the benchmark in terms of commitment and bollocks
Most ballsy player at United

I agree with this. I imagine I’m not the only one who feels a whole lot more respect for Patrice Evra after the way he has conducted himself through this. We knew he had balls, but this has been something else. Proud of him.

Salty – Yet, you need only look at the difference in the way the two clubs handled this issue. United and Evra’s media silence; Liverpool, Suarez and Dalglish bleating to the media. Who was the victim here exactly?

United wouldn’t have handled the case anywhere near as poorly as Kenny and Liverpool have done. This isn’t about Liverpool vs United, this is about what is acceptable in a society in 2012. If someone complains about racism, the offender is found guilty and punished, why the hell should you boo the man who made the complaint? Liverpool as a club have tarnished their reputation.

I completely agree that the booing of Evra was unfortunate and harmful for race relations in football. However – and perhaps this is a less interesting point than the ones you make in your piece (and that I agree with) – I don’t believe that a Liverpool fan booing Evra was necessarily being racist or even flippant about racism. Liverpool fans have the right to believe that Evra lied about what happened or somehow deliberately set out to stitch Suarez up. I think they are wrong in taking that view, but they have the right to believe it. And that is regardless of the fact that an independent panel has ruled in Evra’s favour. An independent jury acquitted OJ Simpson, but I presumably had the right at that time to believe he murdered his wife and a right to boo him if I saw him in the street.

I understand, but I think you’re giving them too much credit. No everyone booing was a racist, but they were all morons.
Just like the Chelsea fans who booed Wayne Bridge and ‘stand by their man’ whenever some lurid story appears or someone dares to criticise him.

“voiceofshankley (Liverpool): BREAKING NEWS ::: The FA have awarded yesterday’s FA Cup tie to Manchester United, accepting Patrice Evra’s claim (after the referee had blown for full time) that his team had in fact scored at least ten goals and not just one. The fact that no players, supporters or officials, nor TV cameras’ were able to confirm the other ten or more goals, did not mean that Mr. Evra’s claim was false. When interviewed (through a……n amateur interpreter) immediately after the game, the accused Liverpool goalkeeper Pepe Reina admitted conceding one goal. This damning confession was enough to convince the FA panel that he must have conceded the other ten or more as claimed by Mr. Evra. The FA found Mr. Evra to be a very convincing witness on account of the fact that he is such a lovely bloke, has never been in trouble before, and claims to be fluent in several languages. Mr. Reina’s testimony on the other hand was found to be totally unreliable in that he is Spanish (and we all know what they are like) and spoke mainly in Spanish through an interpreter. As Mr. Reina had admitted to conceding one goal, the FA panel concluded that the probability was that he had conceded more than one. Mr. Evra would not have been so adamant if he hadn’t. The FA has therefore settled on Manchester United winning by a margin of 7 goals to 2 as the true final score. Pepe Reina and Liverpool Football Club have the right to appeal the score within the next 24 hours, but not overturn the defeat. If they do decide to appeal and lose the appeal, they will be immediately kicked out of all FA competitions for the next 50 years…”
From Team talks post-match forum…http://www.teamtalk.com/yoursay/7557#comments

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Evra said he was called ‘ni**er’ in his complaint. Then changed it to ‘black’.
Said he heard it ten times, then five, then six.
He lied at some point in there.

Liverpool fans were right to boo him. It doesnt say they condone racism, it days they think Evra is a liar.

You also say the monkey gesture – totally unproven as yet – was at Evra.
Says who?
The ITV footage shows little but what it does show is the fan was looking towards the away fans. If guilty he should – and will – be banned. But let’s get some facts and evidence first. There was no evidence against Suarez incidentally.

No mention of the vile Hillsborough chants by the entire away end though I notice.
No surprise either.

I’ve reposted the above. You deleted it first time, not sure why, perhaps you could explain?
As for some of the replies since:
Read the FA report. It makes no mention of negrito, so please don’t lecture when you’ve clearly no idea of what went on.
Many Liverpool fans have read the report and know that with no evidence whatsoever th FA have decided to make Suarez an example of how firm they’re going to be on racism.
No evidence at all that ANYTHING Evra said was true.
None.
That’s why we support Suarez in this.
Although personally I think he deserved some kind of ban for saying ‘porque Negro?’ or ‘why black?’ when translated. I don’t think he meant it in a racist way at all, but this isn’t Uruguay.

Dave – yours is just one of more than 50 comments from Liverpool fans offering denial, excuses, and misinformation. This is why supporters, football insiders and media throughout the country have condemned Suarez, condemned Liverpool and condemned Liverpool fans. Until Liverpool supporters realise that abusing a black man for reporting racism is driving the club back to the 70s there’s no hope for you. Liverpool and its supporters are anachronistic to the modern age. Fully unreconstructed, offensive and irrelevant.

One interesting smear was the claim by various LFC ‘Evra is a liar’ posters that some United fans had been arrested for spitting on the Hillsborough memorial at Klanfield. They swarmed onto sites becoming more and more self righteous about how disgusting these United fans were etc etc.
The police later announced it was a total fabrication. No wonder they do not understand what the term liar means.

ja – totally right. I faced a difficult decision with this article. To date there have been more than 50 comments from Liverpool fans pushing the same lines: ‘Evra is a liar’, ‘Suarez did nothing wrong’, ‘look what your fans did’. None, and I mean none, has yet accepted that either Suarez did wrong, or that jeering a black man for reporting racism is wrong.

I face a difficult decision: print the comments and allow the voices of the reason to be drowned out by those who shout loudest; or edit out the comments. I hate to censor, but at the same time, why give a platform to these morons.

All the suddenly so-called experts on the nuances of Latin American Spanish fail to understand that Evra’s comment ‘concha de….’ more accurately translates contextually to something like ‘son of a bitch’.
I just think it is so sad that they dont stand up and say Suarez was stupid, probably didnt really mean to be racist as such but now accepts he was wrong. Let’s get on with moving on.

You seem to have posted a few that are representative for the bunch, no need for 50 “Evra is a liar posts”. If they have a decent point or aren’t retarded, then by all means post, but the rest of them are just spam

Ed, I’ve been friends with a couple of Liverpool fans since school. One of them is black, and one of Goan heritage.

The Goan guy (who is more of a ‘real’ supporter) is also hanging on every word that Kenny says, but he used to preach to one of our racist friends that he hated him for his views and I took pleasure in pointing out this fact to him and now all I get is passive-aggressive responses from him ever since – its hypocricy like this I can’t stand.

Whereas the black guy is quite scathing regarding the way KFC and Kenny have handled everything. While he isn’t a very extreme fan – it does at least show that there are Liverpool fans out there who will break from toeing the party line even if they do seem get out shouted by what I still hope is a minority…

captainhormone said:
I’m gonna spin this Suarez yarn on it’s head, to prove a point to our thick scouse friends
“Suarez is a lying cunt”…He racially abused Evra 8 – 10 times, not the once he said.
There you go scouse….prove to ME, Suarez (the proven racist here..not Evra)isn’t lying.

…
Don’t talk shit… King Kenny said Suarez told the truth… what more do you want?

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

Loserpool FC will never get it. They are just living in their own little bizarro world where anything goes as long as its in the name of LFC! Saurez can bite a player, use his hand to stop a goal, make racist remarks…what’s next? The Anfield ‘faithful’ are so blindly following their club that Saurez could shoot Evra and they’d make some excuse for him.

That’s OK though. We’ll have plenty of laughts at their expense in the coming years. We’ve already had the Carroll-Tevez swap deal to ease our pain. 🙂

Racism has become a side issue here. Luis Suarez is not racist and neither are the majority who booed Evra. The fella who made the monkey gesture is an idiot who deserves everything that’s coming to him.

The t-shirts were crass and Dalglish’s tarring of Evra’s character ill-advised but replace Hernandez with Suarez and Evra with Johnson and imagine the game had taken place at Old Trafford … the idea that Johnson wouldn’t have been booed is farcical. The only ‘ism’ at play ex post facto (ha, if only) is tribalism.

Aidan – almost a sensible comment until the last three lines. Tell me are the hundreds of non-United fans, footballers, industry insiders, and media who have found Liverpool’s actions abhorrent all tribal too?

Fair point although I was really referring to the what happened inside the ground since that formed the thrust of the article.

Oh and Dinkinflicker, Liverpool supporters are more or less the same as everyone else. Not all-knowing and lovable but not, ahem, “inbred racist fuckwits” either. Honestly, with each tete-a-tete, my mind casts back to reading this:

Aidan – we might have to agree to disagree. Having been a United fan for 30 years I couldn’t see a situation where we’d jeer a player in Evra’s position. In fact, if it happened to the scale it has at Liverpool I’d struggle to be part of that community. I know quite a few United fans who feel the same way.

Whether they accept it or not, as a football club – along with many of their fans – they have done more to set back the game’s stance against racism by over 20 years than any other sporting event in recent memory.

If there is one silver lining to this whole issue, it’s that they have simultaneously debunked the myth to the wider population that as a group of supporters they are somehow this all knowing, informed, educated, loveable, affable, warm hearted bunch, sat atop some moral high ground and shown themselves to be the vile, reprehensible, offensive, narrow minded, thick, uneducated and almost certainly inbred racist fuckwits that they are.

Another epic gaff
In other news Dietmar Hamann was on BBC News earlier criticising Liverpool fans’ actions toward Evra. Said something along the lines of ‘Evra is the victim, not the villain’
That’s 2 ex-Liverpool players who haven’t toed the line – Collymoore being the other one (and look at the abuse he got for it)
I can imagine Dalglish giving it the Malcolm Tucker ‘walk the fucking line’ speech to these two

It’s no good expecting Liverpool FC to acknowledge an obvious mistake by one of their players. It took something like 20 years to offer Juventus a public apology for their part in Heysel. They are sadly just reverting to type and that really makes me sad. Really shameful.

The best thing we can hope for is that the majority of people are condemning the actions of Suarez and LFC and that seems to be the case. The FA, media, respected journalists and commentators are clearly outlining their stance and its against racism and the manner in which LFC have conducted themselves.

That’s as good as its going to get chaps. I’m not really enjoying watching LFC fans dig a deeper and deeper hole for themselves its backwards and a bit sickening. But your right to post a few that outline the general response from such fans. Well done Ed.

Aidan – just racist fuckwits it is then. I’ll accept that there may or may not be higher instances of inbreeding in Liverpool than elsewhere in the UK.

For a number of years you’ve lorded yourselves as ‘champions for the people’. The general public have apparently not loathed you in the same way as other successful teams because of the values you’ve apparently held as a club. Liverpool fans know their stuff, they’ll happily applaud opposition players, you’re purists and flag bearers for the game, all that bollocks.

That’s been undone in one fell swoop. Knocked off your title perch, and now off your self proclaimed moral one. Still, at least it gives you another crusade to embark upon eh?

Dinkinflicker said:
Aidan – just racist fuckwits it is then. I’ll accept that there may or may not be higher instances of inbreeding in Liverpool than elsewhere in the UK.

For a number of years you’ve lorded yourselves as ‘champions for the people’. The general public have apparently not loathed you in the same way as other successful teams because of the values you’ve apparently held as a club. Liverpool fans know their stuff, they’ll happily applaud opposition players, you’re purists and flag bearers for the game, all that bollocks.

That’s been undone in one fell swoop. Knocked off your title perch, and now off your self proclaimed moral one. Still, at least it gives you another crusade to embark upon eh?

At last..someone showing real bollocks and saying what we are all thinking

Commenter said:
It’s no good expecting Liverpool FC to acknowledge an obvious mistake by one of their players. It took something like 20 years to offer Juventus a public apology for their part in Heysel. They are sadly just reverting to type and that really makes me sad. Really shameful.

Defending the actions of a racist player (even though the FA definitely said that he wasn’t) isn’t racist in itself. As for the booing, Rafael and Welbeck were spared so the action itself wasn’t racist.

Liverpool FC is no more and no less special than any other. The same applies to yourselves.

As for not jeering a player in Evra’s position, opposition players are barracked for many different reasons, many innocuous and many fatuous. If a Liverpool player is fouled at Old Trafford, subsequently receives treatment and then plays on, he will have been seen to have faked injury and will be booed.

Evra was booed for a combination of three reasons:

1. Liverpool fans believe he lied or at least distorted the truth.

2. He got Luis Suarez into trouble … as trite as that sounds.

3. To put him off his game.

The first is completely down to opinion. The document did the FA no favours as everyone read what they wanted to read into it (subjective validation).

The second is purely instinctive and morally dubious.

The third, in or out of context, happens to players all the time and arguably worked (the author suggests this anyhow although Roy Keane didn’t agree).

I’ve been friends with a couple of Liverpool fans since school (20ish years). One of them is black, and one of Goan heritage.

The Goan guy (who is more of a ‘real’ supporter) is also hanging on every word that Kenny says, but he used to preach to one of our racist friends that he hated him for his views and I took pleasure in pointing out this fact to him and now all I get is passive-aggressive responses from him ever since – its hypocricy like this I can’t stand.

Whereas the black guy is quite scathing regarding the way KFC and Kenny have handled everything. While he isn’t a very extreme fan – it does at least show that there are Liverpool fans out there who will break from toeing the party line even if they do seem to get out shouted by what I still hope is a minority…

Dalglish made two mistakes – the t-shirts and the preemptive judgement of Evra although he shouldn’t have been allowed to make either – Liverpool need to make drastic changes to their PR operation.

Suarez will be booed at OT and fairly so. Some could argue that his punishment has been served and that everyone should move on. This is nonsense of course but even were he to apologise to Evra unreservedly, he would still be booed and, I’m really going out on a limb here, let’s say Evra accepted his apology and asked for him to be spared the opprobrium coming his way, well, that still wouldn’t happen as he would remain a lightning rod for a proportion of United fans to get one over Liverpool.

Just to add to Ed’s comments, you also have the fact that as Adeyemi reacted to the abuse he received from the Kop, and as it started to look as though the nature of his reaction suggested some form of racial abuse, a significant section of the crowd started to jeer him which was promptly followed by an immediate rendition of the Luis Suarez song. Whilst the lads was in tears.

This whole argument about evidence is completely ridiculous.
One mans word against another…
But Suarez himself admitted using the “N” word… his excuse was… in his country it’s not taken as insultive…
OK… but in this country and the rest of the world… it is… and you’d have to be from another fuckin planet to not know that.
Suarez cried cynical tears and KKK gobbled it up… then tried to do the “managerial, man management” thing and support his player… problem was… he was trying to dodge rain drops in a downpour… his man WAS guilty, was FOUND to be guilty by the inquiry, and still KKK tried to deflect criticism by wagging his fuckin finger at everyone else… United, the press, and worst of all Evra.
Now it becomes a case of how long do you hold on to a rising balloon… and the stubborn cunts refuse to let go… they have no defense for their position, but can’t bring themselves to admit they’re wrong.
There seems to be a hope that if they just stick to their guns with the claim, “we were wronged”… the whole thing will blow over in time, and they can somehow claim a moral victory, of never conceding defeat.
My hope is they’re NEVER given a free pass on this until someone in Liverpools hierarchy admits, they got it all wrong.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

They are in denial, it really is 70s thing, totally out of line with the 21st century. Some people think it is weak to apologise or say sorry when you make a mistake. A real man owns up to his weaknesses, learns and implements change for the better.

Alfonso, Suarez did not use the “N” word. I know what that word is and I’m not going to type it although the second letter is “i”, clearly. No, he used the word negro (in Spanish), which literally translates to black (in English). He used that word (black) pejoratively.

Honestly, I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.

One final thing, having been there on Saturday, I can tell you that it was not anything approaching a cauldron. There was an edge – no question about that – but this wasn’t Figo returning to Barca or a game between Vasco and Flamengo or a match in Istanbul or the Montevideo derby. And like it or not, United fans stood by Cantona over a far more serious offence and I didn’t have a problem with that. He, like Suarez, made a mistake.

Commenter said:
One final thing, having been there on Saturday, I can tell you that it was not anything approaching a cauldron. There was an edge – no question about that – but this wasn’t Figo returning to Barca or a game between Vasco and Flamengo or a match in Istanbul or the Montevideo derby. And like it or not, United fans stood by Cantona over a far more serious offence and I didn’t have a problem with that. He, like Suarez, made a mistake.
We (will) move on.

Your last 2 posts are laughable. Suarez made a mistake did he? Not according to him he didnt.
‘I will carry out the suspension with the resignation of someone who hasn’t done anything wrong’
To compare what Eric did to what Suarez did shows just how misguided and far wide of the mark you are.
There isn’t really a debate to be had here. Suarez racially abused Evra, and those associated with Liverpool Club have completely cluster-fucked their way through the entire episode, tarnishing their reputation considerably. End of story.

I find it amusing that all media outlets,including this site were very keen and astute to observe that Evra was booed by the kop and convieniently forget that the likes of Valencia and Welbeck were NOT booed.

Commenter said:
Alfonso, Suarez did not use the “N” word. I know what that word is and I’m not going to type it although the second letter is “i”, clearly. No, he used the word negro (in Spanish), which literally translates to black (in English). He used that word (black) pejoratively.
Honestly, I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.

Are you seriously this dumb? Racism includes discriminating against a player because of his colour. Why did Suarez need to refer to Evra’s colour? The literal translation of what Suarez said is ‘blackie’ and the context in which he used the word was racist. Do you honestly need an explanation of why Suarez’s words were racist?
Nah, sod that. Find the FA report and read it yourself.

Commenter said:
Alfonso, Suarez did not use the “N” word. I know what that word is and I’m not going to type it although the second letter is “i”, clearly. No, he used the word negro (in Spanish), which literally translates to black (in English). He used that word (black) pejoratively.

Honestly, I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.

Mate… don’t be a pedantic twat… I read the report… you can split hairs all you like… “Negrito” is what he said, and if you honestly think he was calling Evra, “Black guy”, in a friendly way, then you’re as big a cunt as everyone else trying to justlfy Liverpools ridiculous stance.

You got any black mates? Do you call them friend… or “Black” friend?

He could have called him anything… he could have called him “shit headed cunt, and no one would have batted an eye… but he chose to attack his colour… and everyone knows exactly what he was saying.

So take your… “I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.”… and fuck off!

As much as I hate Liverpool because of the history between the 2 clubs, I always had a sense of respect for the rivalry. This incident has left a really bad taste in my mouth, and what ever respect I had for them has completely gone out the window. That fucker Dalglish must be living under some rock if he thinks that the booing was just banter. It was so sad to see, and I really felt sorry for Evra, not as a United fan but as a human being.

sidney said:
Speaking of racist cunts, looks like Terry will be stripped of the England captaincy

Done… and Rio has said he doesn’t want it… also good.

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching’ tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you.”

How convieniently you ignore the fact that others like Welbeck and Valencia weren’t booed.

I’m pretty sure that the people who wanted this verdict to go their way haven’t read the 115 page report.

If you did make the effort to go through all the pages instead of just brushing through the summary,you would have asked yourselves the following questions:

-Have you looked at what Evra’s initial allegations were?
-Do you know the word he originally accused Suárez of using?
-When did he change his mind about the word?
-How many times did he change his mind about the word on the day itself?
-How many times did he claim Suárez had said the word ?
How many times did he change his mind about that number?

It’s no surprise that the Liverpool fans believe Evra is a liar ! If you only read the summary you won’t have a clue. Maybe it doesn’t matter how many times he changed his mind but how can you say that without reading about it?

If you do feel strongly about the issue itself, the accusations of racial abuse, it’s time you did read that report.

The longer you avoid it the closer you become to those who celebrated the verdict for the harm it might do Liverpool more than the benefits it might bring to the fight against racism.

The same United fans who always complain about The FA being harsh to United will lap up whatever verdict that goes their way as long as it comes at the expense of their rivals.

I suggest the United fans should stop lying by claiming that racism is the main issue here.It isn’t.

Commenter said:
40,000 fans booing a black guy?
How convieniently you ignore the fact that others like Welbeck and Valencia weren’t booed.
This entire issue is all about tribal point scoring.
Period.

You thick cunt.
1. Welbeck and valencia hadn’t complained to the FA about being racially abused. Look up the word ‘victimise’ in the dictionary.
2. Tribal point scoring? If anyone is guilty of tribal point scoring it’s LFC who have maintained their player’s innocence from the outset, during and after the inquiry. Tribalism is when mong fans like you fail to accept that a player used a racially offensive word irrespective of the number of times he said it (and get this through your thick head) and still fail to accept it AFTER HE ADMITTED USING A RACIALLY OFFENSIVE WORD. Again, I will make this clear because you are a a bit slow: it doesn’t matter how many times he said the word, saying it even once is enough. Suarez can say they he didn’t mean to be racist, claim the term is commonly used in south america or come up with some other horse shit excuse but, objectively speaking, the word used was racist. Why did Suarez need to refer to Evra’s skin colour?
3. Liverpool fans only accuse Evra of being a liar because, let’s face it, when was the last time they or the club took full responsibility for anything? Stealing tickets off your own fans in Istanbul and fuck it, I will say this, Heysel. It took English teams getting kicked out of Europe and 20 fucking years for you to say sorry. Shameful. Showering United fans at Anfield with cups of piss and shit whenever the 2 sides meet.

How convieniently you ignore the fact that others like Welbeck and Valencia weren’t booed.

I’m pretty sure that the people who wanted this verdict to go their way haven’t read the 115 page report.

If you did make the effort to go through all the pages instead of just brushing through the summary,you would have asked yourselves the following questions:

-Have you looked at what Evra’s initial allegations were?
-Do you know the word he originally accused Suárez of using?
-When did he change his mind about the word?
-How many times did he change his mind about the word on the day itself?
-How many times did he claim Suárez had said the word ?
How many times did he change his mind about that number?

It’s no surprise that the Liverpool fans believe Evra is a liar ! If you only read the summary you won’t have a clue. Maybe it doesn’t matter how many times he changed his mind but how can you say that without reading about it?

If you do feel strongly about the issue itself, the accusations of racial abuse, it’s time you did read that report.

The longer you avoid it the closer you become to those who celebrated the verdict for the harm it might do Liverpool more than the benefits it might bring to the fight against racism.

The same United fans who always complain about The FA being harsh to United will lap up whatever verdict that goes their way as long as it comes at the expense of their rivals.

I suggest the United fans should stop lying by claiming that racism is the main issue here.It isn’t.

This entire issue is all about tribal point scoring.

Period.

There’s no shortage of ignorant, deluded and simple cunts on merseyside these days I see.

If you hadn’t quite done enough to embarrass yourself with the bollocks you’d written, then you’ve finished off the job by ending your post with the word ‘period’. Unless you’re on one of course, which would explain a lot.

Edit – Just to clarify for the apologist on here, I’m not saying the LFC fans stole tickets off other fans in Heysel. The Heysel tragedy was obviously on another scale of scum behaviour by the bastards from Merseyside.

He’s on about pulling out of the England scene entirelyhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/03/john-terry-quit-england-mutiny
Apparently some senior players made it known they weren’t happy with Terry being captain
He is a shit captain tbf. Brilliant on the pitch, but his actions off the pitch void what he does on it nowadays. He doesn’t give you enough to justify the baggage; the Bridge shit, the press conference shit, now this race shit. It’s another major tournament that he’s plunged into turmoil. He’s bad news. Get rid