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Are there any comparative studies between pollution from private transport and public transport per person per distance travelled?

How about clean energy solutions for rail networks, buses, city trams etc?

Originally Posted by Paul Mason

It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

And that's global, including poor growth countries like India and Brazil without the infrastructure to support transition to electric vehicles yet. In Norway it's already more than 25%!

You know where else is pushing EVs hard? China. Almost 40% of all EV sales in the world are in China. If the Chinese government wants to make something happen, it will.

My office building parking space has a large number of charging stations in place, although EV aren't all that popular yet (from what I can tell).

CNG cars on the other hand, are HUGEEEEEEELY popular with the majority of cabs having switched over to CNG cars and most of the public buses have also been converted over to use CNG. Even amongst privately owned cars, I'd say every 3rd car is CNG operated.

In europe sales of diesel cars is down over 20%, petrol cars is up under 10%.
Rest of the cars was EV/Hybrids.

Core reason for EV's not having a bigger share, not enough proper cars being made.
For a long time it was only Tesla, but now all the major German manufactures is coming with their product line.

People doesn't want a terrible Mitsubishi Miev, they want a car normal car that can compete in price with a combustion engine.
Demand is here, but supply has so far been lacking. So much that now EU is taking action in getting the wheels moving.

If someone has a proper study, would be nice to see and also read why the figures seem to vary somewhat.

What I'd be most interested in the pollution caused by 'economically necessary' travel and how it varies between private travellers and those using public transport.

There may be a class component that interests me to, those in low skilled service work who get the bus vs middle management commuting into London from the midlands etc etc

Originally Posted by Paul Mason

It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

When people talk about EVs, they need to differentiate between hybrids (Toyota Prius), plug-in hybrids (Chevy Volt) and fully-electric (Tesla).

The first two are viable and are gaining in popularity, the latter one is a rich-man virtue-signaling mobile that does not make sense from technological standpoint.

i wonder if this continued insistence on the lack of viability of on-board fossil fuel powered cars means Don got a new paymaster in the petrochemical industry.

the only two reasons i didn't go electric when i bought my i10 was A : price, and B: comparative lack of charge points two years ago, today i can get something like a leaf for a reasonable cost and the charge-point problem is essentially solved a number of gas-stations are even adding charging points alongside the pumps.

if i had to buy a car today, i'd definitely go electric, of course i'm not replacing that i10 until i got my degree, but i definitely plan to pick a electric only car at that point, if i actually decide to replace it, even for longer drives the occasional half-a-hour enforced break more or less line up with how i do my stops anyway.

I'm not buying a car tomorrow, but probably within the next ten years I will finally buy my first car and I fully expect it to be electric. We're currently in the process of receiving tenders on an approximately 5 kW solar system for our home, this will probably include a battery or at the very least be battery-ready. It's only a small hop of the imagination that a few years from now we'll be topping up the car from the house supply.

OPINION
By Behyad Jafari
Every major nation can benefit from a swift switch to electric vehicles, but Australia's very existence may rely on it.

If that sounds dramatic, consider the facts. Australia is now heading towards 100 per cent import dependency on fuel, primarily from the Middle East and through Asia. As an Iranian refugee, I know something about being imported to Australia from the Middle East and I can tell you: it's not smooth sailing. We're now dependent on this route, traversed by foreign-owned vessels, primarily via the South China Sea.

Two weeks of fuel reserve

Last year, the former Deputy Chief of the RAAF, Air Vice Marshall John Blackburn, was commissioned by the NRMA to provide strategic advice on Australia's fuel security. He found Australia's food, water, and medicine distribution was reliant on imported transport fuel and our supply operated on a "just in time" approach for logistical efficiency. Long story short: at any given time, Australia has no more than two weeks' worth of imported fuel in the country. After that, everything grinds to a complete and catastrophic halt. Today, instability around North Korea and territorial conflicts in the South China Sea make the shipping routes more insecure than ever.

"If any real conflict breaks out in the area, what priority would fuel imports to Australia take?"

Would foreign-owned ships risk travelling through a conflict zone to satisfy contractual arrangements with Australian entities? Would foreign suppliers even be willing to continue exporting? The NRMA has estimated even a 20 to 40 per cent cut in Australia's fuel supply, "would quickly lead to a situation whereby the country would start running out of food and medicines, while the economy would start to shut down".

The world's great electric vehicle laggard

There's obviously plenty to be worried about with this scenario. Yet we should also be angry. Because the simple fact is there is no reason for our fuel security situation to be this precarious. Australia could easily produce enough electricity to power millions of vehicles, providing greater demand for investment in renewable energy. Yet somehow Australia, despite having the most to gain, is the world's great electric vehicle laggard.

"A paltry 0.1 per cent of new vehicle sales in Australia last year were recorded as electric."

In other comparable nations, electric vehicles have become the norm: 29 per cent of new vehicles sold in Norway are now electric. Major vehicle markets such as China, France, and Britain have announced they will ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles. Countries and companies around the world have made clear the future of the market is electric.

Benefits besides fuel security

Even if you are somehow completely sanguine about the situation in the South China Sea, Australia's slowness to move is costing us on myriad other levels. Electric vehicles are, for example, an efficient way for Australia to reduce carbon emissions. An electric vehicle charged from the existing power grid already produces fewer emissions than the average petrol engine vehicle. This advantage will increase rapidly as the electricity sector moves toward renewables. Electric vehicles would also clear air and noise pollution in our major cities. Major points of community anger, like smoke stacks in residential areas, could vanish. Electric vehicles would also free Australian households from the tyranny of the bowser. With solar panels on your roof, most nights you could plug your car at home and fill up free. Music to the ears of those in our outer suburbs and regions, especially.

Send consumers a message

Here's the kicker: moving Australia towards electric vehicles would not require a massive commitment from government. The benefits are so clear, we just have to dislodge the boulder from the top of the mountain. The latest research shows most Australians would consider buying an electric vehicle, but are put off by the idea it is niche and unsupported by national infrastructure. So, all that's needed is a clear, unambiguous message to consumers and industry that the government supports electric.

A step to build momentum

One easy, revenue-neutral step would be to provide a short-term exemption for electric vehicles from fringe benefits tax. Half a million fleet vehicles are bought by the government and companies in Australia every year.

"If we can help encourage a decent proportion of these sales to be electric it would kick start the transition."

The foregone revenue could easily be made up by only slightly increasing the impost on conventional vehicles. In addition, governments might provide short-term exemptions to costs like stamp duty, registration and other taxes levied on the car market. Incentives could be provided for the mass installation of charging infrastructure.

The point is that once the momentum towards electric vehicles starts, it will be unstoppable. A few small but important steps is all Australia needs to be a cleaner, healthier and more secure nation.

When people talk about EVs, they need to differentiate between hybrids (Toyota Prius), plug-in hybrids (Chevy Volt) and fully-electric (Tesla).

The first two are viable and are gaining in popularity, the latter one is a rich-man virtue-signaling mobile that does not make sense from technological standpoint.

i wonder if this continued insistence on the lack of viability of on-board fossil fuel powered cars means Don got a new paymaster in the petrochemical industry.

the only two reasons i didn't go electric when i bought my i10 was A : price, and B: comparative lack of charge points two years ago, today i can get something like a leaf for a reasonable cost and the charge-point problem is essentially solved a number of gas-stations are even adding charging points alongside the pumps.

if i had to buy a car today, i'd definitely go electric, of course i'm not replacing that i10 until i got my degree, but i definitely plan to pick a electric only car at that point, if i actually decide to replace it, even for longer drives the occasional half-a-hour enforced break more or less line up with how i do my stops anyway.

Don going to be shaking his sword cane at all these new fangled EVs from the comfort of the lawn of the old curmudgeons home, all the while saying it'll never catch on.

Best case my next car, that I will put an effort into buying*, will be EV. But more likely the one after that so 5 years at least. :/
Thats just a guess on when there will be a viable option and enough infrastructure for what I use it for.

I could and would get an EV tomorrow if I only used it for work commute, mid-distance work trips and so on. 3-4 of my local co-workers already do and the parking lot is getting more and more of them generally speaking (inc chargers).

*I mean really getting a new one and taking the time and effort to survey and test out my options. For now I'm getting another Mazda CX-5 (but petrol this time) with very low mileage. When I can get something similar with the range to match...I'll take it.
And no, I dont think Tesla X is an option. Its not worth anywhere near what it costs, that goes for all Teslas so far btw. They are very cool, look stunning imho and I want and could afford one but if I'm dropping close to $200k on car none of those would be it.

Originally Posted by Tarminic

I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

i think i'll stick with full petrol for the time being. There's still space to be made with eco-boost styles and with the random mileage i do, and living remotely (by english standards) pure EV isn't an option for me.