The Shocking Truth About Nitrifying Bacteria Products

Just like any other tool, there is a right way and a wrong way to use Colony or any imported true nitrifying bacteria. Fish are typically cared for based on their needs and behaviors. Bacteria are the same and deserve the same attention and respect.

Fish come in a bag and bacteria come in a bottle. Because of this, too many consumers don’t associate a bottle of bacteria as being livestock. Bacteria are and must be treated like livestock!

Because the market is saturated with impostor nitrifying bacteria, their instructions obviously aren’t much use and no education is gained in this area. Only confusion remains. This has left the hobby without much knowledge of how to utilize and bring along a true nitrifying bacteria culture such as Colony to its full glory.

Have you ever brought fish home and just chucked them in the aquarium straight away? Of course not. The fish are brought along slowly to most effectively embrace their new environment. Once out of their comfort zone they won’t function properly and might even die. Bacteria require acclimation the same as fish.

In order to acclimate bacteria, it is important not to throw the kitchen sink at them. We see this often in a “fishless” cycle where an ammonia product is used as a surrogate food source to fish waste to the tune of many parts per million. This is not the way to bring bacteria along.

True nitrifying bacteria do not need to be force-fed huge amounts of ammonia to develop. In fact, a light load allows them to nest and start working optimally much faster. That’s the whole point, to do this fast. The point isn’t to throw the kitchen sink at them to see how much of a beating they can take to prove their effectiveness. This isn’t done to fish, corals, or inverts and shouldn’t be done to nitrifying bacteria either. They need what they need so they deserve the same care considerations.

For a more detailed procedure to properly utilize Colony, see our field guide used at industry and home aquaria.

No worries. To pull you down quickly dial back your feeding 50% for a week. The fish will be fine. They are evolved to go even weeks without eating at all. Begin a 20% water change regimen every two weeks. This will remove the nitrates as well as improve the overall health of the system by resupplying the ecosystem with necessary trace elements.

Stock up on our product Outbreak! This is a very high powered commercial grade organics consuming bacteria that will go a long way toward preventing additional nitrates from entering the water column. Decomposing organics release nitrate, so consuming them prior to release helps a ton.

This is the easiest and most sensible way to deal with nitrate. In contrast to what some insinuate, there are no bacteria that convert nitrate into a non-toxic substance the way we see ammonia and nitrite converted.

Good luck if you have any other questions drop them below

Victor
on December 31, 2013 at 3:47 am

I’m a fan of your show it’s funny and very informative as I sometimes shop on eBay and watch YouTube reviews for products such as colony and outbreak which I’ve never tried I came across this channel on YouTube ( pond guru) he sells stuff on eBay and has a place called Tyne Valley Aquatics in the UK. He claims his gel media balls are the only true nitrifying bacteria product out there. They are supposed to slowly dissolve in your filter where you put your biological filter media which he also claims he has the best out there ( bio ultra media ) so I’m not gonna slam anyone’s product or risk a slander suit but your Outbreak and Colony is supposedly not as good as the gel bio balls he sells on eBay. I wish I could test them both but I’m already into my first few days of cycling a 56 gallon Cichlid tank I wish I could believe all that I read about your products since I’m a fan of your show but I tried 2 products already with no luck ( snake oil ) and am very hesitant about spending another 20 or 25 dollars on a bottle of beneficial bacteria. So in ending since I am a fan can you please give me some advice on how I can get my tank fully cycled without having to wait 6 to 8 weeks ? I’d really like to try your products but I’m very gun shy as I’ve spent quite a lot of money already. Sincerely a true ATM Tanked fan Victor F. mrgrouch_70@verizon.net

Nitrifying bacteria (aerobic autotrophs) need to be in liquid to survive. As mentioned in the article, these bacteria do not create spores, therefore when dried the cell walls break down and the bacteria dies. You will not find aerobic autotrophs living dry in dirt, sand, powder or in a sandwich bag. There is s reason that aquarists do not let their bio-filtration media dry.

If a product recommends adding bacteria in increments they are selling not autotrophs but organics consumers. Nitrifying bacteria live for almost two weeks with no food, which is ample time to feed them. It even allows time to correct issues in the water column that could be preventing oxidization. Any excess will die off but that is the whole idea: to start with way more than you need rather than a precious few. That would defeat the entire objective.

You are right to utilize caution when choosing a rapid cycle product. This blog is a great help.

At the end of the day, its a good idea to use what the pros use. Colony has been used in new exhibits for three public aquariums in Australia and in the first public aquarium being built in Sri Lanka just in the last few months alone.

If you decide to take a different route, the only other productive option would be to import media (wet) from a system with a high bio load and roll the dice with bacteria count. Make sure media is proper housing for bacteria and comes from a high flow area of the system.

Warning: Importing media could result in transmitting parasites and other pathogens which are dangerous to your fish.

Good luck and if you have any other questions holler back!

Kirk Rider
on January 30, 2014 at 3:13 pm

We have a “Trout in the Classroom” project at a local school. Ammonia is lately stubbornly high (2–4 PPM) and we’re getting some mortality. This acquarium is maintained at 55 degrees F. Will Colony bacteria work and persist in this colder water?

Yes, Colony will work in low temperatures but barely. You will need lots and lots of bacteria.

It is a great question. Because nitrifying bacteria convert nitrogen faster and more efficiently in optimum temperatures and conditions, the bacteria colony in such a system will be much, much smaller than one in a system that is much colder.

Because conversion happens much more inefficiently in colder temperatures, exponentially more bacteria is needed to pick up the slack.

Are you getting any conversion? Do you have any nitrite or nitrate levels?

Hi first off I gotta say i love the show, I watch it whenever I have to time. I love the fishies hehe. Okay so here’s my question. I don’t really have the time i would like to keep a large aquarium so I got a smaller 10 gallon one. But recently I found out that my aquarium has a leak. I was wondering is there a specific type of aquarium glue I could get to use and fix it or would I just have to buy a new aquarium. I have 2 two year old gold fish and I actually thought that my larger one was splashing water out of the tank. Till I examined it and realized after I cleaned up the mess the water was still coming out from underneath. If there is a type of glue or sealant I could get and if so do you all sell it or where would I get it? Please help save my tank.

I am wondering how you respond to the plethora of research showing that the bacteria in aquariums that oxidize nitrite are not Nitrobacter but are Nitrospira since you have the former in Colony (at least the fw version) and not the latter. And to use your own words, this is fact.

The above paper has been cited by numerous subsequent researchers and cited regularly. But I am sure you folks are already aware of this information. So what I wonder is, while you accurately “slam” products which are all spores for very good reasons, why you have the wrong nitrite oxidizers in Colony and then imply you have the correct ones? Fortunately, the research shows that even when folks start out with the wrong nitrite oxidizers when cycling a tank by the time the tank is cycled it will contain Nitrospira and little or no Nitrobacter.

This is especially egregious because this information has been known for over 15 years. Even those who now believe it is the Archaea which oxidize ammonia in aquariums agree that it is the Nitrospira which oxidize the nitrite.

Sorry to have somewhat rained on your parade, but in light of your statements, I thought is only fair that the actual facts get mentioned here. Somehow I have the feeling that this comment will only make it as far as your Recycle Bin.

The research you provided is not an independent study. That is work done by persons contracted by a competing aquatics company at the time (Marineland) and I am very familiar with it and its nature. But in all fairness, our article carries bias as well so I can’t expect you to just up and believe that. With over ten years in this “debate”, I know better than to lead you any further down the road of internet confusion. Research and marketing commonly goes hand and hand and too often the marketing hand unfortunately dictates the flow of information found in research.

Your next step is to verify yourself, through the scientific method of actual use, if what you read fits with the results. Please take my advice on this. It is the fastest way out of your understood confusion and what takes Colony out of the cross hairs of doubters.

You will not find us running away from our assertions about Nitrobacter. Now that your feeling was wrong about what would happen to your comment, I leave it up to you to discover why I have double down on Colony and the Nitrobacter that is in it. Since I had the integrity to answer your question, I ask you try the product and see for yourself.

It is my opinion that companies have to earn the trustworthiness of their claims. So far, Colony has done nothing but shock and surprise people. Even skeptics. We have glowing testimonials from hobbyists, LFS owners, fish wholesalers, and everything in between. That is what you should be taking to heart. That is what should be telling the tale because they are not on ATM’s payroll. We have scientists too. If you like, we can have them write up a bunch of research papers with the shark logo on it showing how superior Nitrobacter is, but you really don’t want that.

So, definitively I will state to you that Nitrobacter is not the “wrong” bacteria for rapid bio-filtration no matter what you or any other people from other companies say. If you want to try and prove it wrong you gotta get your hands dirty. That’s where it begins and ends.

Best of luck,
S. Blood

Matt P.
on August 2, 2014 at 9:42 am

As I read down through the list of comments, I couldn’t believe there wasn’t an “I know better” or “this study proves you wrong” post. No matter the topic, there’s always someone ready to answer the call to challenge, conflict and discredit the person or people who “get their hands dirty” doing the job every day.

Imagine the original writer’s surprise to find his or her post “posted” for all to see, not relegated to the recycle bin as expected! And if that weren’t enough, your polite, thoughtful, and informative response only cemented your professionalism.

Admittedly, I haven’t tried any of your products – I visited your site hoping to find an ATM tank for a “regular” guy. My son and I love the show, especially the problem-solving and plain ol’ fun that is a part of every episode!

I love your show, mostly love when you shop for the fish for your clients.

I have Blood Parrots, I love these fish, they are so friendly and cute!!
I have a problem…..

I had in the past used ONLY bottled water, and NEVER had a problem with nitrates. I set up a new tank and am using only WELL water. The problem is that I now have a problem with nitrates, at 80ppm , never more but they wont go down. I have done water changes once a week, cut down on feeding, in reality I have done nothing different than I had in the past, but now am using the WELL water. Do you think that the WELL water could be causing this problem? I will tell you that I am now ONLY adding BOTTLED water after cleaning and topping off. Would you suggest using OUTBREAK to clear this up?

Hello Cindie, what is your well water reading on nitrate before you put it in the aquarium?

cindie
on October 25, 2014 at 7:35 pm

HI again,

My nitrate before, as I did test it because I thought that it might be the problem; was 0.

OK, get out you thinking cap, and figure this one out! Because I sure cant!

Thanks, Cindie

ATM Shark
on October 25, 2014 at 8:23 pm

Hey Cindie,

It is pretty typical for aquariums to collect nitrate. It accumulates mostly from bio-filtration but can also attributed to decomposing organics. Outbreak! would help with the organics part, but you will still always have nitrate from ammonia –> nitrite conversion. The only way that the change in water would affect nitrate production is if the well water has a much higher alkalinity value than bottled water which would make nitrification much more efficient, or even possible… this is likely. Bottled water is not a good thing for aquariums since a lot of them carry a pH of as low as 2 and alkalinity values of near or at zero. Unless you are buffering with an additive to “age” it more harm is done than good. The only bottled water that would be acceptable would be Fiji which carries a pH of 6.5 and a total alkalinity of around 240. If you have access to regular tap water go with that. It is the most balanced water with the right amount of stuff in it. But, minimal bi-weekly water changes should be a part of your life with an aquarium not only to take the bad stuff out but to put the good stuff back in. Make sure the bottled water is close to the “real world”. Bottled water isn’t that.

This is a great question and if I can help further just holler back!

Stacey

Geoff
on November 30, 2014 at 2:54 pm

Hi Guys.
Just a note to let you know that I have had great success with your products since discovering them by accident at my local fish stockist.
I have recently given my marine Aquarium a makeover only because I was able to to do it quickly using Colony, fish in and happy within hours, small phosphate reading later on in the process but to my suprise Agent Green worked its magic in one go .
And later on using Outbrake once a week to keep everything in check.

The reason I write this is I have just purchased a larger aquarium and will be going through the whole thing again only on a larger tank.
And although all test readings during the with the exception of the phosphate were spot on. I still went through the algae stage, green then red not clearing totally
for several weeks my question is could this be avoided ?

I think what you are asking is if you can avoid going through an algae issue bloom. The key to this is to stay on top of your phosphate and organics. Organics become nitrate and phosphate later and all kinds of other nasty stuff. Outbreak! and Agent Green actually work best as prevention tools. Algae is always a pain in the butt, however you can keep it at bay if you know what you’re doing. Keep organics down. Keep phosphate down. Don’t over-run your lights.

Starting Outbreak! from the get-go will be a huge positive.

James
on January 14, 2015 at 12:50 am

If I buy your Colony and Outbreak Products, can I instantly use them in my set up or do I need to start over completely , because I recall you saying that what you call BAD bacteria spores that I already have in there mainly from seachem stability and reproduction would kill your TRUE bacteria? Or did I just misunderstand what you said?

Yes you can use Colony and Outbreak! together in the aquarium. They just cannot be packaged together in the same bottle. To clarify, the article describes how these two products cannot be packaged together due to their nature. What must be done to keep Outbreak! bacteria in their spores to survive packaging for a very long duration, by use of inhibitors, would kill the non-spore forming bacteria in Colony.

This dynamic is completely not an issue once they enter the aquarium.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Stacey

David Owen
on October 14, 2015 at 1:46 pm

This is all you fault after watching your show,lol I decided to setup one off my spare tanks to an marine tank only 200 LTR just so I can learn the basic just live rock & fish at moment, but after 4 months I decided I’m gonna covert my 400 ltr fresh water tank to marine tank & try to keep some corals aswel. Question in hand could I use this product Colony bacteria to work along side my live rock which is in my 200 ltr for when I convert my 400 ltr into an marine tank to help speed up the tank cycle, if yes where in Northern Ireland stock your products or some where that is willing to ship it within the UK

Hey David thanks for getting in touch. Actually, Colony will cycle the tank up with or without live rock so you’re in good hands. I don’t think there are any dealers in Northern Ireland as of yet, but there are loads of dealers in the UK. If you don’t mind I will pass your email address on to our UK distributors and they will get you set up. Is that okay?

Dave Broscombe
on November 3, 2015 at 12:47 am

Makes for interesting reading but the proof is in the eating guys where are your outlets here in he UK

Glad you enjoyed the article. Yes please, we advocate for hobbyists to verify our product performance. We have many outlets in the UK. If you visit our dealer locator you can find one nearest you: http://acrylictankmanufacturing.com/dealers/ Thanks again if you have any questions just holler.

Dave Broscombe
on November 3, 2015 at 3:00 pm

We hale for Plymouth UK Shark 29 years a koi keeper 22 of those behind glass in the mother of all tanks.
Then we moved out doors

Dave

Bishop
on October 1, 2016 at 7:03 pm

Any evidence or research to show that autotrophic bacteria in the aquatic environment or a bottle can hibernate? This instead seems characteristic of heterotrophs?, I have been looking for some evidence of this through scientific paper websites but found nothing to confirm this.

If you are referring to the kind of aerobic autotrophs in Colony, it’s hard to say what “research” or papers discuss this. Sorry. Perhaps I can help to clarify that what happens to aerobic autotrophs in a bottle of Colony is more like a stasis, or inactivity, but is also representative of a “hybernation” whereas the metabolic processes are slowed considerably like a bear. Our heterotrophic bacteria are spore-forming bacteria whereas I imagine it could be characterized as a hybernation of sorts. But the fundamental difference between the two is that aerobic autotrophs don’t create spores and, generally, heterotrophic bacteria do.

Bishop
on October 2, 2016 at 2:16 am

Hi, thanks for your reply, appreciate you taking the time.
Unfortunately I will probably never be able to use your products due to living across the other side of the world. My question is just one of pure desire to learn. I am sure you can appreciate ( as this article refers to it ) the frustration of trying to understand something only to find out that there is much conflicting information with little to no evidence. For example the ratio of Heterotrophs needed to convert ammonia in comparison to Autotrophs is one I have heard often but I can’t find that data anywhere, we know they outgrow autotrophs but where does that number come from that everybody uses? Where did you get that number from?
I am not here to judge your product or make claims against or for it, You have stated many things as facts I had just hoped that this avenue might lead to some information for my studies. Shame there isn’t more research out there in this hobby as this leads to miss-information and skepticism within the community as you have said. The data from Dr.HOVANEC seems to be the sole or main contribution in this area and as you have said this seems to be to sell a product ( Although he has released papers after that show different results from his original ) It would be nice to have other data to confirm or deny his results.

You have also made claims in this article and and not provided data to back them up other than happy customers. This is a shame from my perspective, if you have the data to claim the facts, it would help put an end to the problem of claims that are made to sell a product. I hope that makes sense and I haven’t come across as aggressive. I am only frustrated in my own journey to find evidence, I don’t mind who is right or wrong.

Thanks again.

ATM Shark
on October 2, 2016 at 11:17 am

Hello, our products are available all over the world. I might be able to help you acquire them. No worries, it is okay I understand you are curious about all of this. Who is the authority from which you would accept truths about bacteria? There aren’t a lot of people working with aerobic autotrophs so your options are extremely limited. These becteria were isolated over 100 years ago. It is possible that what you are looking for isn’t easily found, or found at all, on the internet. But I will do my best to try! I would like to point out that you would spend less time working with Colony and gathering your own results than you would on a quest for “papers”, which again, would be somebody’s conclusions based on working with these bacteria. Which is what we have been doing for many years. So, that’s why I need to know who the ultimate authority is who would satisfy your quest for facts.

Bishop
on October 2, 2016 at 7:14 pm

I am sure importing isn’t out of the question, but again I am not here to confirm if your product works, It must work, there are other Autotrophic cycle products that work too, however heterotrophic products work, they just come with a great deal of other issues and cautions. There is a great deal of questions that come when making such claims though.
There is no single authority on the subject, it’s an odd question. I am asking for relevant data that has lead you to conclude the statements you have made.
For example if I made a statement that Autotrophic bacteria ( regardles of species or genus ) was the dominant bacteria in an aquarium after say 30 – 130 days, I could point you in the direction of the Dr HOVANEC papers. This shows method, formula, data and conclusion.
Earlier you discredited these papers stating that they were doctored for the purposes of selling a product.
That’s fine I support that challenge, but not if you can’t provide any data that shows him to be incorrect.
His conclusions about About autotrophs have changed somewhat over different studies.
for example his 1998 paper concluded that both Nitrosospira and Nitrospira were the dominant AOB and NOB bacteria during the test. And not Nitrosomonas as was previously believed. ( Although I have found no Actual data to say that was the case , on a 1977 book that speculated )
However Dr HOVANEC released another study in 2001 that showed Nitrosomonas AOB turned out to be dominant under low Ammonia levels (5-10ppm).

You have both come to the same conclusion when it comes to heterotrphs vs autotrophs, which is great for the hobby.
However your product shows Nitrosomonas as the AOB and Nitrobacter as the NOB. ( Thank you for being one of very few that provide this information )

Among so many other questions, how have you come to determine that Nitrobacter is the dominant bacterium for Nitrite oxidation? Is that even your conclusion? or is it that Nitrobacter was used because it was the easiest to keep alive as it is a dominant bacteria in soil nitrification?
If the first option is true, then I am asking for your results from your tests or your research that states this to be true in any aquarium environment. Are there tests you have done that show this is still the main/dominant bacteria after 30/60/120 days? How have you tested to show this is even the bacteria in your bottle? there must be some paper trail that leads to a test and a conclusion.

If the second option is true then you fall one of the same problems as heterotrops as a cycle bacteria. Because you are cycling the aquarium just as they do, there is no argument there, however if you bacteria isn’t proven to the dominant NOB or even AOB then your product is potentially cycling an aquarium but hindering the natural bacteria that would grow.
That for me as a consumer of a product isn’t so important, but providing full information to people based of factual evidence so they can make their own minds up is.
As I stated earlier this isn’t about me having a go at your product, it is about me finding some form of substantial evidence so that when I suggest a product or not to use a product and somebody tells me I am wrong, I can actually say well no, I am right, here is the evidence. Otherwise we’re all just pointing each other to different claims with no evidence and nobody is learning anything.

– How have you concluded autotrophs are the “real ones”? Both oxidise Ammonia and nitrites differently, but they still manage to do it. So what tests have you done or used that show this if Dr.Hovanecs papers are discredited. And how can you claim yours are the real Bacteria when its possible that title goes to a different bacteria strain?

” One way is no more natural than the other. It makes no difference where the bacteria grew and multiplied. Whether by ATM’s team or in your aquarium, they are the same bacteria that took the same time to develop that consumed the same energy sources.
…..

And those are just the facts.”

This is your statement from this page. I am also asking for solid evidence that your bacteria is the same bacteria that that will grow naturally in my aquarium.

Here is another study from 2011 that claims Ammonia-oxidizing archaea are actually responsible in salt water tanks and in freshwater tanks for ammonia oxidation. And not one of these papers has mentioned Nitrobacter ( that i have seen at least ). And all of these papers are peer reviewed. The only time I have managed to find Nitrobacter as a NOB is in soil and human waste facilities.

Any help you can provide, that shows some form of data, from method, formula, data and conclusion, from any author will be welcome.

Thanks

ATM Shark
on October 2, 2016 at 9:09 pm

Hello again. First, I would like to point out that nobody here discredited anyone’s research. It was merely pointed out that the research that was cited as “independent” was not independent” at all, but rather research funded by a company looking to create a product at the time. Nothing wrong with that. We certainly research our products extensively, but our business is not publishing papers. We are a bio-remediation firm that deals in the production and distribution of bio-remediation agents, such as nitrifying bacteria as well as heterotrophic bacteria. Our team has been doing this for the better part of 30 years now and there is nobody else on the planet who is in a better position to deliver the conclusions such as what was discussed in the article. When it comes to the bacteria, we have compared them all and we go with what works the best. These organisms are not patented and we are free to culture whatever bacteria we like. Given there are no financial or systematic reasons for choosing one over the other, only the performance is the deciding factor in inclusion. I double down on everything in this article as fact, per our experience, and you can take it to the bank. Or not. It is up to you.

For what you are looking for you might want to try an independent lab or a university. It isn’t free, as it will cost you a sum of money, but they can confirm to you what you want to know. Or you might want to try the library if you aren’t having any luck on the internet.

Best of luck!

Bishop
on October 2, 2016 at 11:51 pm

Thank you for your clarification on the “discredited research”
Do you agree with the findings in his research then?

I am not asking you to produce a paper, I am asking you for proof of your statements. Again I know your product works without even using it, most products will work, I don’t assume there is any reason why they don’t. but I am talking about specifics, not just creating nitrates.
If you research your products extensively, where is that research? in any form, a graph, a chart, anything.
A company with 30 years experience and who is the best in the world must surely be able to back up it’s claims, if not by a study for peer review then some form of written conclusion, that shows how it was tested.

“When it comes to the bacteria, we have compared them all and we go with what works the best.”
perfect, what is them all, name them? Somehow you’ve tested these bacteria? so somewhere there must be even at the very least a napkin with the conclusion on it.

“we are free to culture whatever bacteria we like. Given there are no financial or systematic reasons for choosing one over the other, only the performance is the deciding factor in inclusion.”
I am not claiming you can’t, the more the merrier, I support your product, just not your claims. What I am claiming is you are saying your product is no different from a natural cycle as a factual statement. How can you quantify that with no data showing it to be that way?
That is a false claim, that leads me to a simple conclusion that you are hiding something or that you very well know that the bacteria in your product is only chosen for its shelf life. As you haven’t shown me any different and no other study I have found has found nitrobacter as a primary NOB source and one hasn’t been provided.

“I double down on everything in this article as fact, per our experience, and you can take it to the bank. Or not. It is up to you.”
This is the conspiracy theory argument, ” I know it to be true because I know it “. How do you know it?

The most important thing you can read from this discussion is that I am not claiming your product doesn’t work, so does peeing in the tank or adding pure ammonia. I am however looking for proof/evidence, anything that shows there was a process to come to a conclusion so this information can be spread through out the community. Why don’t you want that too? It would be far better for you, your reputation and your consumers to say ” this is what happens in the aquarium, we use different bacteria, but the bacteria we use is the best on the market at producing a solid nitrification process, and the cross over to the new bacteria over time is a seamless process” Or something to that effect.

– ““true” nitrifying bacteria. ”
How do you know? Every other study on this doesn’t even mention Nitrobacter as an NOB and the latest independent peer reviewed study shows they aren’t even bacteria but Thaumarchaeota for AOB so that nulifies using Nitrosomonas.

– “it can take up to 1,000,000 heterotrophic or anaerobic bacteria cells (depending on the species) to remove the same amount of ammonia as one (1) true nitrifying bacteria cell.”
You aren’t the first to state such a number. But I have not found anything that can confirm this number? did you make it up, copy it or actually find this number through testing? If you copied it then I would love to see the source. If you tested it and found this result, I would love to see the evidence.

– “although in a low metabolic state when packaged.”
– “This allows them to survive for extended periods of time in an anaerobic environment,Autotrophs can survive approximately eight months in this state, ”
You have used many words to explain this. How do you know that’s what they are doing? even if you just bottled it up for 8 months and threw it in the tank and timed from start to Nitrates, that’s evidence, but there must be some form of paper trail. If I turn my filter off for 8 months everything is dead. If you manufacture some process that is classified to keep it alive then just state that.

– ” One way is no more natural than the other.”
This is incorrect, if your bacteria colonize my filter and out compete the other bacteria that would other wise grow from a local source, then your product is out growing them and doing the same thing as heterotrophs ( competing ) would but at a much different rate.
This doesn’t mean your product doesn’t work it just means you have no evidence to make this claim that they are the same bacteria.

– ” they are the same bacteria that took the same time to develop that consumed the same energy sources.”
See above.

“The facts are always our friends. They are always there, ever shining through the dark void of opinions and bias.”

This is very true. It’s a shame you feel you can do the same thing to us as you have claimed the other companies do which is take your word for it and manipulate the information to sell a product.

I originally came here seeking information about bacterial colony counts and reproduction for heterotrophs vs autotrophs. But your evasion in during this conversation has peaked my curiosity.
I will concede that the only force on you to provide factual evidence would be one of morals. I feel as a consumer it’s a moral right for me to not have to take your word for it especially when it comes to my expensive fish and my bank balance.

However, as a company that’s the best in the world with over 30 years experience, you could put this to bed once and for all with that information. Every time this conversation came up around the world every person in the world would be sent to your website for undisputed proof. You can’t buy that publicity.

I want to thank you for your time, I realize it’s unproductive for you but you showed up and gave it a shot, which at the very least is great customer service.

Again, we know what we are saying is true because of the reasons I have already given. I can really appreciate where you are coming from. I really can. We get this kind of thing from time to time. We are an R&D company, which means we do our own science with our own scientists and go with our results, not somebody else’s. Around here we don’t have to “hear it from somewhere else”. Again, our goal is not to be published in scientific journals or magazines. Our goal is to develop the best tools for needs in various industries as they arise, along with the best way to to produce them. Thanks for the link, but realize we have the internet too. So far there has been nothing new on it that gives us any cause to change what we do. If ever something new and better comes along we’ll certainly know about it and we’ll offer that better thing.