DarthMonk wrote:I'm not clamoring for his release but I think we can improve at the flex he currently occupies in the draft or with a free agent. I have no doubt we can find a guy with equal explosion and more meat who can play WR or DB. My guess is this is his last year as a Redskin.

This is how I feel. I realize his contribution. However, I can see how we need improvement. We need someone that can bring his speed but with more size. He can't break arm tackles without significantly being slowed down or rerouted.

I agree - I think that Banks may not be here next season but ...

I think he gets some more opportunities to help both special teams and the offense for the next 5 games

Banks may have a play or 2 left in that tank and I think that Mike sees that

It's that time of the year - RUN THE DAMN BALL - if they figure out how to stop it then find another way to RUN THE DAMN BALL

It’s a bit amazing that Brandon Banks’ blunders haven’t hurt the Redskins in a big way, between fumbles in other games and trying to return a punt from the goal-line. But now that the games will start becoming more important, how nervous will he make you back deep?

I like Banks and I hope he gets that big return agains the Giants, but I have to admit, I get nervous everytime he touches the ball.

Taking a shot at Brandon Banks over the player's fumbling problems, Shanahan said: "What Banks usually does a good job of is recovering his own fumbles. He's got some experience fumbling the ball, but he always seems to get it. I told him once the opposition gets it, then he won't have those opportunities."

Ok I found a highlight video of Banks. Now from what I see on his successful plays vs now. Banks is hesitating too much instead of just making up his mind and going for it.

Maybe we shouldnt give up on him so soon. He may find his way and then we will have a great returner. Just so long as he shows progress. I think he will get together. Lets just give him more time. After all we are still rebuilding. Its not like there are great returners out there that we can get now. I think before seasons end he will take one to the house.

HEROHAMO wrote:Ok I found a highlight video of Banks. Now from what I see on his successful plays vs now. Banks is hesitating too much instead of just making up his mind and going for it.

Maybe we shouldnt give up on him so soon. He may find his way and then we will have a great returner. Just so long as he shows progress. I think he will get together. Lets just give him more time. After all we are still rebuilding. Its not like there are great returners out there that we can get now. I think before seasons end he will take one to the house.

I agree with your assessment that he is hesitating. My guess is his early fumbles and Shanahan's warning about his fumbles has him playing not to lose his job instead of playing to win.

HEROHAMO wrote:Ok I found a highlight video of Banks. Now from what I see on his successful plays vs now. Banks is hesitating too much instead of just making up his mind and going for it.

Maybe we shouldnt give up on him so soon. He may find his way and then we will have a great returner. Just so long as he shows progress. I think he will get together. Lets just give him more time. After all we are still rebuilding. Its not like there are great returners out there that we can get now. I think before seasons end he will take one to the house.

I agree with your assessment that he is hesitating. My guess is his early fumbles and Shanahan's warning about his fumbles has him playing not to lose his job instead of playing to win.

HEROHAMO wrote:Ok I found a highlight video of Banks. Now from what I see on his successful plays vs now. Banks is hesitating too much instead of just making up his mind and going for it.

Maybe we shouldnt give up on him so soon. He may find his way and then we will have a great returner. Just so long as he shows progress. I think he will get together. Lets just give him more time. After all we are still rebuilding. Its not like there are great returners out there that we can get now. I think before seasons end he will take one to the house.

I don't know... I just keep thinking "he's being coached by the same guy who turned Randal-el into Random-hunt'n'peck". Is is a coincidence that the same hesitance is filtering into Banks' game? I'm sorry... I don't get coaching's loyalty to Danny Smith...

It’s a bit amazing that Brandon Banks’ blunders haven’t hurt the Redskins in a big way, between fumbles in other games and trying to return a punt from the goal-line. But now that the games will start becoming more important, how nervous will he make you back deep?

I like Banks and I hope he gets that big return agains the Giants, but I have to admit, I get nervous everytime he touches the ball.

Taking a shot at Brandon Banks over the player's fumbling problems, Shanahan said: "What Banks usually does a good job of is recovering his own fumbles. He's got some experience fumbling the ball, but he always seems to get it. I told him once the opposition gets it, then he won't have those opportunities."

Red... I'm happy to see you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. I know you're a fan of Banks', but remaining objective is nice to see around here.

To be honest, I get really nervous every time Banks touches the ball. His muffs are one thing, but he's also fumbling when he tries to run with the ball as well. I believe his size and lack of strength allows defenders to easily rip the ball away from him. I know it's considered taboo in our society to criticize or talk about someones size, but in a sport where size and strength are paramount, I think it's a legitimate concern to discuss.

I think others have already adequately posted the concerns with Banks' punt and kick-off return mistakes and inadequacies, so I won't be redundant with my opinions in that regard. I read your quote from Shanahan is which he said that on offense, Banks "has made big plays." I think Shanahan, speaking publicly to reporters in front of microphones and cameras, was merely just trying to be PC by saying something nice about Banks, and not publicly ridiculing an active player on the current roster, which was the intent of the question posed by the reporter. (I'm sure that next we'll hear that Shanahan is "staking his reputation on Banks..." lol)

But I can't seem to remember those big plays on offense. As a WR, Banks has been targeted 8 times for 15 yards, or a 1.9 yard average. As a runner, Banks has 7 carries for 36 yards, which includes one run of 21 yards. So perhaps Shanahan is referring to that one run of 21 yards. Other than that one play, Banks has done nothing on offense, save for being a decoy on other plays. I know being a decoy has some significance in it of itself, but I can't believe that other guys couldn't also play the role of a decoy.

Banks does bring some speed, but he's not only speedy guy we now have on offense. Robinson, Moss, Garcon and even Hankerson (4.4) bring elusiveness and speed on offense. So I'm with CLL as far as the return game is concerned, I wouldn't mind seeing others possibly return kick-offs or punts. Guys like Niles Paul, Aldrick Robinson, and even Santana Moss or DeAngelo Hall could be viable options in the return game.

SkinsFreak wrote:Red... I'm happy to see you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. I know you're a fan of Banks', but remaining objective is nice to see around here.

My posting of Keim's position on this current discussion is consistent with my posting of Keim's position (which reflected your opinion) during the earlier debate on whether Banks should make the team Your insinuation that I amnow acknowledging both sides is in fact, erroneous. The fact is in the prior posting pudding. I also remind you that your "objective" opinion ended up being the one that did not reflect what actually happened. Banks made the team.

I respect your opinion, but disagree with it in regard to Banks being on this team. It is as simple as that.

Now here is some more non-objectivity (as you call it) from me:

My position hasn't changed on whether or not Banks should remain on this team. I say that he remains on the team. Like others who recently posted on this thread, I do see a negative change in the confidence of Banks from last year to this year. I do see this as troubling and have in the past acknowledged some of the things that ATX sees (by the way, I respect ATX's opinion on this issue - I do think that he should drop the "booblehead" name calling, but that's my opinion).

What has Banks done for us in the last 11 games? Statistically, not much. Skinsfreak, you seem to focus on that and the fumbles and poor decisions. I acknowledge your perrogative.

How many yards is his decoying worth? What is his potential yet to be used this season? We saw the option pass late last season. Does Shanny have something else in mind for Banks?

I choose to focus on that while acknowledging the fumbles and poor decisions. My opinion seems to be that of Mike Shanahan who has stated that he has talked to Banks about the fumbling and the consequesnces if it results in a turnover). I don't mind being in his company on this one again.

Last year, when this debate was going on, it abruptly disappeared because Banks started having some big returns and then he had the option pass (The TD on the reverse, though called back, still showed his potential). I hope that this debate ends again the same way with Banks contributing to a win in the upcoming games.

Last edited by Red_One43 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Here's the thing. Banks is on the team, primarily because of the threat he poses on special teams... he has been seen as a diamond in the rough by Shanahan for his potential as a wide receiver. That is a fact.

He has yet to really produce on the WR front... and appears to have stopped producing on the KR/PR front.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Banks is on a bubble that's getting thinner by the minute. He needs to rip of a few returns, and he needs to do it soon.

I am not a huge BB supporter either....seems his best plays are in the preseason. I also dont get the decoy argument....to be a true decoy, seems to me that player would have to strike fear in the other team. Garcon, for example, makes a good decoy because he has actually made plays in the regular season so the other team has to be aware of where he is. BB, on the other hand, has really done little to give other teams pause (this season).

And, as others have mentioned, we were lucky that the bad decision to bring the punt put of the end zone vs dullass did not cost us. This is not the first time he has made a questionable decision on a return either.

He is on the team for the remainder of the season. I hold him no personal ill will....but I just dont see his expected impact thusfar. Maybe it will come soon. If not, then he may not be wearing B&G next season....

A winning effort begins with preparation.
Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.

SkinsFreak wrote:Red... I'm happy to see you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. I know you're a fan of Banks', but remaining objective is nice to see around here.

My posting of Keim's position on this current discussion is consistent with my posting of Keim's position (which reflected your opinion) during the earlier debate on whether Banks should make the team Your insinuation that I amnow acknowledging both sides is in fact, erroneous. The fact is in the prior posting pudding.

Damn... ... thanks for the good laugh...

I NEVER said that "now" you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. The word "now" doesn't exist in my comments. YOU added the word "now."

I know you previously acknowledged both sides in the prior debate. I was merely applauding you for doing it again and staying consistent. But hey... feel free to add your own words to my posts to change its intent and meaning. Rather clever...

There's a big difference between our sides of the debate, and I think Countertrey has eluded to it several times. Our side of the debate is based off tangible evidence witnessed on the field. You keep talking about "potential," or an unseen force with no tangible proof to date. Banks "may" be able to do all those positive things you and others talk about, but nobody has witnessed it yet. What we have witnessed, both in preseason and in the regular season, is extremely poor performance both as a WR and a punt/kick returner. That is fact, and the numbers I posted bear that out.

We all know Banks made the team when many fans and members of the media thought he wouldn't. And I believe most are willing to give Shanahan the benefit of the doubt. We're just still waiting to see it, and it's not like Shanahan hasn't given Banks his opportunities. I think the jury is still out on Banks. I don't believe one option pass last year and one 1st down this year offers sufficient evidence of potential or "what he can do."

ATX_Skins wrote:I am bringing the Banks debate back to life. I want him gone. He is awful.

Enough of the speed kills crap this guy is not only a liability he's a terrible returner.

I agree. After our preseason I thought he was going to be basically a useless addition to the team. Twelve weeks in, I think he's not merely useless but actually a liability.

"I’m never under the assumption that you draft for need. You draft the best available football player on the board. ... Because, in the long run, they are the ones who will help you win the most games." - Scot McCloughan

SkinsFreak wrote:Red... I'm happy to see you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. I know you're a fan of Banks', but remaining objective is nice to see around here.

My posting of Keim's position on this current discussion is consistent with my posting of Keim's position (which reflected your opinion) during the earlier debate on whether Banks should make the team Your insinuation that I amnow acknowledging both sides is in fact, erroneous. The fact is in the prior posting pudding.

Damn... ... thanks for the good laugh...

I NEVER said that "now" you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. The word "now" doesn't exist in my comments. YOU added the word "now."

I know you previously acknowledged both sides in the prior debate. I was merely applauding you for doing it again and staying consistent. But hey... feel free to add your own words to my posts to change its intent and meaning. Rather clever...

There's a big difference between our sides of the debate, and I think Countertrey has eluded to it several times. Our side of the debate is based off tangible evidence witnessed on the field. You keep talking about "potential," or an unseen force with no tangible proof to date. Banks "may" be able to do all those positive things you and others talk about, but nobody has witnessed it yet. What we have witnessed, both in preseason and in the regular season, is extremely poor performance both as a WR and a punt/kick returner. That is fact, and the numbers I posted bear that out.

We all know Banks made the team when many fans and members of the media thought he wouldn't. And I believe most are willing to give Shanahan the benefit of the doubt. We're just still waiting to see it, and it's not like Shanahan hasn't given Banks his opportunities. I think the jury is still out on Banks. I don't believe one option pass last year and one 1st down this year offers sufficient evidence of potential or "what he can do."

Our side of the debate is based off tangible evidence witnessed on the field.

"Our" side of the debate? "Our" side...

What renewed this debate was ATX saying I want him gone.

So who is "our" side? I like being on Shanny's side as far as keeping him goes.

You keep talking about "potential," or an unseen force with no tangible proof to date.

I'll tell you this, Shanny must be seeing that same unseen force called "potential" since he continues to let Banks return kicks after his producing not much at all. He still has him taking snaps out of the backfield even though he hasn't done much at all.

Hey, that's another tangible for you. As of the Dallas game, Shanny still has Banks as his kick returner and he is still taking snaps out of the backfield.

What we have witnessed, both in preseason and in the regular season, is extremely poor performance both as a WR and a punt/kick returner. That is fact, and the numbers I posted bear that out.

Yeah, the numbers are a fact. Now let me give you another fact. Shanny witnessed the same preseason and regular season perfromance as "we" did and yet - Banks still made the team and is still returning kicks. And you want to talk about tangible evidence.

There is nothing in my posts that said that Banks had a good showing at wide out in the preseason and as a kick returner this season. I know that you love to say that you didn't say something and that is good and fine, but you certainly love to insinuate stuff.

Now, for the record and you can check me for consistency:

I do not believe that Banks should be gone as ATX brought up on this latest editon of the Banks debate.

I do recognize that he is on a short leash. Afterall, I posted the comments by Shanny about the fumbling.

I do think that he should be sat down as the primary kick returner in favor of Paul or Crawford for a game to try to get his mojo back.

I do believe that Shanny should continue to devise ways for Banks to get the ball from scrimmage. The option pass was brilliant, I bet Shanny has another brilliant play in the works.

I NEVER said that "now" you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. The word "now" doesn't exist in my comments. YOU added the word "now."

Of course you didn't use the word "now." Glad that YOU figured out that I added it. If you had remembered to add the word "again" as you claim you were merely doing, I wouldn't have added "now."

I'm happy to see you're acknowledging both sides of the debate. I know you're a fan of Banks', but remaining objective is nice to see around here.

I was merely applauding you for doing it again and staying consistent

Nice try guy! Just by making those statement tells your intentions. My posting what you want has you "happy?" Get real! Next time, try this, "you're acknowledging both sides again," when you are applauding. It might be more believeable.