This may sound a bit strange but if I upload some photos could you confirm if my 5 month old tortoise is definitely a Hermanns.

I am a newbie to this but the more I look the more I think it looks like he has tiny spurs on his back legs! Hope you can advise as it is probably me being silly but an expert opinion would be appreciated. thanks

Yes I have I did get him direst from a breeder and his CITES states he is a hermanns. I am guessing this is correct but as you can see from the photos he does appear to have what appears to be tiny spurs on his back legs. The breeder was also selling spur thigh hatchlings at about the same time but this was last baby so didn't get to see the difference etc.

He is a spur thighed tortoise, not a hermanns. You can also tell by the plastron underneath. You need to contact either the breeder or DEFRA (animal health) on the phone number shown on the copy of the Certficate you were given. It's very irresponsible of a breeder to do this and could be that they have given someone with a hermanni a Testudo graeca Certficate, so it needs to be sorted ASAP really as you will not be able to change the cert to your own name at a later date.

Thanks guys - being a newbie to this I wasn't sure but it just made me suspect. It doesn't matter to me in the fact that Herbie will continue to be a much cherished member of the family no matter what breed he is I will try to contact the breeder to try and get sorted out. Which would you recommend contacting 1st the breeder or Defra? From what I have read the general care is pretty much the same but will now do more study on Spur thighs!! Thanks for the help will let you know how I get on!

Did the breeder have both species mixed? Are you sure they were an actual breeder and were keeping species separate at all times? The two species should not have been together. Hopefully it's not a breeder from my own breeders list. As mentioned, it could be a simple mistake, but I'm finding it hard to see how this could happen, particularly with him being the last one. If they cannot rectify the situation which they will not be able to do without contacting the owner of the hermanni with wrong papers, then you will have to contact DEFRA and apply for a new cert, but they will need the breeders details unfortunately.

The name and address on the certificate is where I got him from. As he was the last hatchling I don't know if they were mixed or not. Do you think I should take him to a vets and get some sort of evidence from them or just ring/email breeder and see what they say? Not sure how to approach it

Hi,
The name and address on the certificate is where I got him from. As he was the last hatchling I don't know if they were mixed or not. Do you think I should take him to a vets and get some sort of evidence from them or just ring/email breeder and see what they say? Not sure how to approach it

No, most vets will not know the species anyway, unless they are decent specialists. He is definitely a Testudo graeca. If you can trust the breeder as being definitely the breeder, then I would ring them and tell them you have had your tortoise definitely IDd as a Testudo graeca and take it from there. If you collected from the 'breeder' and they did not show you the parents or a breeding setup with nesting area etc and you feel they might possibly have not been the breeder then I would contact DEFRA as a crime may have been committed. Did they seem legit and keen to know how you would keep him? Did they give you good care sheets, which gave similar care advice as you would receive here? Are the parents ID numbers on the certificate or just a dealers name? If they were breeders then the tortoises parents details will be on the certificate. Don't worry as the tortoise will still be yours as you bought him in good faith either way, you just need to go through the proper channels to get his papers that's all. Have a look at the cert and we can go from there. You can photograph it if it will help and one of us breeders here will be able to help you.

No, most vets will not know the species anyway, unless they are decent specialists. He is definitely a Testudo graeca. If you can trust the breeder as being definitely the breeder, then I would ring them and tell them you have had your tortoise definitely IDd as a Testudo graeca and take it from there. If you collected from the 'breeder' and they did not show you the parents or a breeding setup with nesting area etc and you feel they might possibly have not been the breeder then I would contact DEFRA as a crime may have been committed. Did they seem legit and keen to know how you would keep him? Did they give you good care sheets, which gave similar care advice as you would receive here? Are the parents ID numbers on the certificate or just a dealers name? If they were breeders then the tortoises parents details will be on the certificate. Don't worry as the tortoise will still be yours as you bought him in good faith either way, you just need to go through the proper channels to get his papers that's all. Have a look at the cert and we can go from there. You can photograph it if it will help and one of us breeders here will be able to help you.

The certificate I have got has got the parents id numbers on it but I am guessing these are Hermanns!! I didn't see the parents etc. as they were in hibernation. They really did seem like really nice legit people although have to admit care advice etc. was a bit sketchy and some a bit dodgy! Not sure I want to publicly show photo of certificate as hoping this is a genuine mistake and would not want names/addresses shown publicly.

Yes you are quite right not to show any personal details. It sounds as though there has been a mistake in which case they need to contact DEFRA, who will advise re a new cert or refund of your payment and return of cert copy. Still wondering how on earth they managed this! It would be like me selling one of my Horsfields as a hermanni!

Just to let you know I have spoken to Herbies breeder and she was very apologetic and not sure how it happened (didn't question too much!) Anyway she has said she will sort paperwork out so I am happy with that as I am happy with Herbie and don't really mind what he is!!

Oh well, that is good then. Hopefully she keeps her species separate and is not producing hybrids lol. As you say it doesn't matter what species Herbie is, so long as he eventually has the right paperwork. I have a hermanni Herbie, she only has three legs bless her.

I must stop using multiple forums as I think I have already asked you this somewhere else(!!) but I am guessing all the previous advice you have given me (probably on multiple forums!!) still ok for a spur thigh and do I need to do anything differently etc?