If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

The Mengucci video that was just posted was really great but 3 Karn Scion of Urza seems overkill. With taking out Cloudposts he had a chance to run Goblin Welder with Great Furnace in there. He also could have cut a Voltaic Key as 2 seems to me to be too many. With that he could have played another Trinisphere. Walking Ballista is really powerful as removal but it's not much of a threat and the deck can win by slamming down a Wurmcoil or a Lodestone or a Forgemaster so I don't think it's needed. This is what I would run inspired by his list, not tested but I'm excited to try it out

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness

The Mengucci video that was just posted was really great but 3 Karn Scion of Urza seems overkill. With taking out Cloudposts he had a chance to run Goblin Welder with Great Furnace in there. He also could have cut a Voltaic Key as 2 seems to me to be too many. With that he could have played another Trinisphere. Walking Ballista is really powerful as removal but it's not much of a threat and the deck can win by slamming down a Wurmcoil or a Lodestone or a Forgemaster so I don't think it's needed. This is what I would run inspired by his list, not tested but I'm excited to try it out

That list seems reasonable, I agree it would be better than Mengucci's.

I'm running a weird list myself. Apart from the endbringer, that could be 2nd Karn/kuldotha, 4th Coil or 3rd Ballista, it seems to be running well, apart from missing artifact count sometimes, warranting me 2 top8 in a row in the weekly LGS tournament:

Round 1 - UW Delver
I'm paired with my former teammate. He played the Pro tour last month, being 1 game away from prize. Due to traffic, he is late but we managed to start the game with 30 minutes in the clock. He plays several decks, but lately he was running Elves, so that's what I think he is on.
G1- I win the die roll and keep a tomb + chalice + metalworker +caverns hand. I see I'm wrong as he plays stoneforge mystic on the second turn, fetching for a jitte. On T3 I cast TKS and take his jitte. He casts 2 snapcasters to block my TKS (I saw his hand with TKS, so I'm well aware not to attack even beffore he casts the second), he gets a tnn and stall for a few turns, until he gets a batterskull and equips it. I'm bashed to 1 life, but I managed to get a kuldotha online, so when he goes for the kill, I fetch for an emperion. With post base, I'm soon with over 20 mana, so when I draw a staff, I'm able to draw 5 cards a turn and go infinite.

SB OUT: 3 wurmcoils, TKS, Endbringer, Trinisphere, 1 chalice
SB IN: 1 Ratchet Bomb, All is Dust, 4 keys, Thorn
I try a T1 monolith that gets dazed. He ponders and go for the 3rd land, casting a tnn. I have a Karn, Scion so I draw for a few turns trying to find an answer. I don't have 3 artifacts in play to crack the inventor's fair, only monolith and a dynamo. I fail to find the find the answer and die to tnn equipped with jitte.

IN: 1 chalice
OUT: Thorn
I keep a slow hand with 2 glimmers, cavern, 2 metalworker, 2 keys, ballista.
I ramp to metalworker and attempt to cast the lodestone that gets forced. He plays delver and jitte, so I play caverns on construct, trade ballista . I have metalworker and 2 keys in play, 1 key in hand, so I get a total of 9 mana with my lands. I attack him a few times with metalworker as I have nothing to do with the mana. I topdeck a sundering titan that gets plowshared, but destroys his manabase he is slowed. He plays another delver, but I find an ugin to deal with it. Next turn I bolt him, taking Ugin to 11. He finds council and feels visibly relieved. I tpdeck another Ugin that ups and ults, not finding much, but enough to close the game.

1-0
Rd2 - UW Miracles Legends
This is a experienced player, we both know what the other is on. He tells me we are paired and we sit down for a smoke before playing.
I lose the die roll.
G1- I keep tomb + monolith+ chalice+ mw+ wurmcoil.
I cast chalice, that gets fow'ed. He ponders and I play metalworker, bringing wurmcoil next turn. He plowshares the wurmcoil, I get Citanul online, he councils it, so I get a ballista. I draw a staff and go infinite.

He mulligans (he told me later he was looking for back to basics). I Mulligan to find a key + rock. He goes tundra go, I do nothing go. He plays plains and ponder. I vesuva his plains and go for key. a second vesuva copies his plains and go for monolith + chalice for 1. I start drawing and play cavern on construct and golem, so he can't do nothing to protect his manabase against Sundering Titan. I hit him once, then he finds an answer to the titan. a 10/10 ballista follows, closing the game.

2-0
Rd3 - Burn
I'm playing against the store's judge. He tells me he was going to play with MUD in that tournament, but he was short on lodestones. I tell him I'd lend him and explains a bit on how my list is different from Mengucci's before we start playing. I saw him playing earlier so I know he is on burn.
I win the die roll. Go for tomb + chalice. T2 I cast TKS taking Light up the Stage, and T$ wurmcoil. He concedes.

I keep a slow hand to ramp to wurmcoil. het casts 2 monastery swiftspears and starts bashing. I play trinisphere that holds him 1 turn, but he gets to the 3rd land, killing metalworker before it can untap. When I'm at 8 life, he casts PoP.
SIDE IN: 1 Staff
SIDE OUT: Endbringer
I mulligan to 6 to a ridiculously good hand. I play tomb + chalice on 1. He land, passes. I play sphere of resistance, he pass. Since he didn't get the 2nd land, I play metalworker first. He goes 2nd land, passes. I play lodestone. He gets to the 3rd land eventually, but taking 6 damage a turn, he doesn't get to play a single spell.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Silverflame

That list seems reasonable, I agree it would be better than Mengucci's.

I'm running a weird list myself. Apart from the endbringer, that could be 2nd Karn/kuldotha, 4th Coil or 3rd Ballista, it seems to be running well, apart from missing artifact count sometimes, warranting me 2 top8 in a row in the weekly LGS tournament:

Round 1 - UW Delver
I'm paired with my former teammate. He played the Pro tour last month, being 1 game away from prize. Due to traffic, he is late but we managed to start the game with 30 minutes in the clock. He plays several decks, but lately he was running Elves, so that's what I think he is on.
G1- I win the die roll and keep a tomb + chalice + metalworker +caverns hand. I see I'm wrong as he plays stoneforge mystic on the second turn, fetching for a jitte. On T3 I cast TKS and take his jitte. He casts 2 snapcasters to block my TKS (I saw his hand with TKS, so I'm well aware not to attack even beffore he casts the second), he gets a tnn and stall for a few turns, until he gets a batterskull and equips it. I'm bashed to 1 life, but I managed to get a kuldotha online, so when he goes for the kill, I fetch for an emperion. With post base, I'm soon with over 20 mana, so when I draw a staff, I'm able to draw 5 cards a turn and go infinite.

SB OUT: 3 wurmcoils, TKS, Endbringer, Trinisphere, 1 chalice
SB IN: 1 Ratchet Bomb, All is Dust, 4 keys, Thorn
I try a T1 monolith that gets dazed. He ponders and go for the 3rd land, casting a tnn. I have a Karn, Scion so I draw for a few turns trying to find an answer. I don't have 3 artifacts in play to crack the inventor's fair, only monolith and a dynamo. I fail to find the find the answer and die to tnn equipped with jitte.

IN: 1 chalice
OUT: Thorn
I keep a slow hand with 2 glimmers, cavern, 2 metalworker, 2 keys, ballista.
I ramp to metalworker and attempt to cast the lodestone that gets forced. He plays delver and jitte, so I play caverns on construct, trade ballista . I have metalworker and 2 keys in play, 1 key in hand, so I get a total of 9 mana with my lands. I attack him a few times with metalworker as I have nothing to do with the mana. I topdeck a sundering titan that gets plowshared, but destroys his manabase he is slowed. He plays another delver, but I find an ugin to deal with it. Next turn I bolt him, taking Ugin to 11. He finds council and feels visibly relieved. I tpdeck another Ugin that ups and ults, not finding much, but enough to close the game.

1-0
Rd2 - UW Miracles Legends
This is a experienced player, we both know what the other is on. He tells me we are paired and we sit down for a smoke before playing.
I lose the die roll.
G1- I keep tomb + monolith+ chalice+ mw+ wurmcoil.
I cast chalice, that gets fow'ed. He ponders and I play metalworker, bringing wurmcoil next turn. He plowshares the wurmcoil, I get Citanul online, he councils it, so I get a ballista. I draw a staff and go infinite.

He mulligans (he told me later he was looking for back to basics). I Mulligan to find a key + rock. He goes tundra go, I do nothing go. He plays plains and ponder. I vesuva his plains and go for key. a second vesuva copies his plains and go for monolith + chalice for 1. I start drawing and play cavern on construct and golem, so he can't do nothing to protect his manabase against Sundering Titan. I hit him once, then he finds an answer to the titan. a 10/10 ballista follows, closing the game.

2-0
Rd3 - Burn
I'm playing against the store's judge. He tells me he was going to play with MUD in that tournament, but he was short on lodestones. I tell him I'd lend him and explains a bit on how my list is different from Mengucci's before we start playing. I saw him playing earlier so I know he is on burn.
I win the die roll. Go for tomb + chalice. T2 I cast TKS taking Light up the Stage, and T$ wurmcoil. He concedes.

I keep a slow hand to ramp to wurmcoil. het casts 2 monastery swiftspears and starts bashing. I play trinisphere that holds him 1 turn, but he gets to the 3rd land, killing metalworker before it can untap. When I'm at 8 life, he casts PoP.
SIDE IN: 1 Staff
SIDE OUT: Endbringer
I mulligan to 6 to a ridiculously good hand. I play tomb + chalice on 1. He land, passes. I play sphere of resistance, he pass. Since he didn't get the 2nd land, I play metalworker first. He goes 2nd land, passes. I play lodestone. He gets to the 3rd land eventually, but taking 6 damage a turn, he doesn't get to play a single spell.

3-0
I'm first on the standings so I ID the 4th round.

Nice report !

I'm still a bit dubious about keys and chalice. It is a nonbo for me.
Your list is a bit spicy but I should give it a try. How do you feel the 1-of forgemaster ? If it is only a 1 of, don't you prefer it to be another thing ?

@ Captain,
I have never played with Traxos for now, but I am a bit afraid of the drawbacks: sometimes you can just get flooded and he won't do anything. If I had to choose between Traxos and wurmcoil I would still pref the wurm, in most cases lodestone golem are also very good.
What did you cut for Traxos ? I may test it online :)
I would cut 1 wurmcoil, 1 lodestone and maybe 1 ballista.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Jorruk

Nice report !

I'm still a bit dubious about keys and chalice. It is a nonbo for me.
Your list is a bit spicy but I should give it a try. How do you feel the 1-of forgemaster ? If it is only a 1 of, don't you prefer it to be another thing ?

I kept 1 kuldotha to fetch for emperion mostly since I cut blightsteel. The list is aimed to maximize metalworker since many decks are running mana denial. I've been comboing more consistenly now or at least bringing huge ballistas. A trick you get to pull is stalling until you have metalworker and staff, then you EOT fetch for Citanul, grab a ballista, draw and grab another thing to go infinite.
It sure is, but keys are another way to protect your manabase and can also be used to fill your hand with flute (in theory, I didn't manage to do that yet) and tick ratchet bomb faster. I side them in when I think the opponent will try to manalock me or when I need to ramp faster, so it's a stance shift. I'm not sure if we need 4.

I still need to find a winning route to defeat goblins, the match has become so horrendous with MD trashmaster and cratermaker.
I forgot to mention on the report, but from the 8 games played I mulliganed 6 times, thrice to 5. From those hands, there were 2 I'd keep if the new mulligan rule was valid.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Silverflame

I kept 1 kuldotha to fetch for emperion mostly since I cut blightsteel. The list is aimed to maximize metalworker since many decks are running mana denial. I've been comboing more consistenly now or at least bringing huge ballistas. A trick you get to pull is stalling until you have metalworker and staff, then you EOT fetch for Citanul, grab a ballista, draw and grab another thing to go infinite.
It sure is, but keys are another way to protect your manabase and can also be used to fill your hand with flute (in theory, I didn't manage to do that yet) and tick ratchet bomb faster. I side them in when I think the opponent will try to manalock me or when I need to ramp faster, so it's a stance shift. I'm not sure if we need 4.

I still need to find a winning route to defeat goblins, the match has become so horrendous with MD trashmaster and cratermaker.
I forgot to mention on the report, but from the 8 games played I mulliganed 6 times, thrice to 5. From those hands, there were 2 I'd keep if the new mulligan rule was valid.

Ok, thank you for the insight.
I personnally have abandonned the goblin MU. It's almost unwinnable without an Ugin (and still ...)
Totally agree with the London mulligan being a very nice thing for us. I also tried at the last FNM and it's wonderfull.

My meta is quite control'ish, it's quite rare to stick a metalworker for a few turns so I'm not sure your plan will go well for me. It is however very interesting and for sure can help against B2B.

I will go to a ~80 man event at the end of the month. Will tell you how it went

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Jorruk

Nice report !

I'm still a bit dubious about keys and chalice. It is a nonbo for me.
Your list is a bit spicy but I should give it a try. How do you feel the 1-of forgemaster ? If it is only a 1 of, don't you prefer it to be another thing ?

@ Captain,
I have never played with Traxos for now, but I am a bit afraid of the drawbacks: sometimes you can just get flooded and he won't do anything. If I had to choose between Traxos and wurmcoil I would still pref the wurm, in most cases lodestone golem are also very good.
What did you cut for Traxos ? I may test it online :)
I would cut 1 wurmcoil, 1 lodestone and maybe 1 ballista.

Cut two of your flex slots (a Voltaic Key/Citanul Flute/Karn Liberated/a Endbringer/a Ballista/a Ugin/the second Staff if you play 2) to make room for 2 Traxos. It doesnt really have any drawbacks. Its an alternate play for when you dont have Metalworker or when the Metalworker gets killed. It comes down turn 1/2 while dodging Daze and starts beating for 7 the turn after forcing your opponent to deal with it asap and buying you time to ramp into your big guys. Unchecked, it wins the game with 2 attacks if you have any other creature that swings even once. At worst it gets countered/StPed instead of one of your higher cc dudes and gains you life in the process.

Traxos works best in builds that are almost entirely artifacts (the same builds that Metalworker excels in).

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

Cut two of your flex slots (a Voltaic Key/Citanul Flute/Karn Liberated/a Endbringer/a Ballista/a Ugin/the second Staff if you play 2) to make room for 2 Traxos. It doesnt really have any drawbacks. Its an alternate play for when you dont have Metalworker or when the Metalworker gets killed. It comes down turn 1/2 while dodging Daze and starts beating for 7 the turn after forcing your opponent to deal with it asap and buying you time to ramp into your big guys. Unchecked, it wins the game with 2 attacks if you have any other creature that swings even once. At worst it gets countered/StPed instead of one of your higher cc dudes and gains you life in the process.

Traxos works best in builds that are almost entirely artifacts (the same builds that Metalworker excels in).

I think I'll test traxos in the Endbringer slot. I tried Meteor Golem as another way to remove main b2b and other annoying things, but it seems underwhelming at best.

Is Traxos working well without a batterskull? I'm afraid it may just be tapped when I need it without the keys, so I did not test it properly.

I was thinking in reviving the RW version Airwave was working on (here). b2b is seeing more play than blood moon, so we still get to use the cavern on artificer for stoneforge/welder, play some basics, etc. A perfect shell for batterskull and traxos. playing a few moxen can help casting colored stuff and casting T1 blood moon or blood sun.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

I think I'll test traxos in the Endbringer slot. I tried Meteor Golem as another way to remove main b2b and other annoying things, but it seems underwhelming at best.

Is Traxos working well without a batterskull? I'm afraid it may just be tapped when I need it without the keys, so I did not test it properly.

I was thinking in reviving the RW version Airwave was working on (here). b2b is seeing more play than blood moon, so we still get to use the cavern on artificer for stoneforge/welder, play some basics, etc. A perfect shell for batterskull and traxos. playing a few moxen can help casting colored stuff and casting T1 blood moon or blood sun.

I've never thought of Traxos in that shell, it could certainly work I guess, with all the artifact-lands in there

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

I thought of a card to try and beat Goblins. Since they are not running Tuktuk Scrapper/ tin-street/wear&tear anymore and relying on cratermaker and trashmaster to do their job. Cursed Totem may be useful. It barrs krenko and kiki too, so they have to try to overrun us with siege gang and lords, a game we are better equipped to win. Of course it also hurts us, but you can get back the value of wurmcoil and simply hold until you are at a winning position. Granted if it is a weird list with some extra artifact removal, you'll probably have extra time to prepare.
It also hurts elves, but they have outs on GSZ to reclamation Sage.
I'm packing 2 totems and 1 torpor orb SB.
I'm gonna try it friday in my training group.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Silverflame

I thought of a card to try and beat Goblins. Since they are not running Tuktuk Scrapper/ tin-street/wear&tear anymore and relying on cratermaker and trashmaster to do their job. Cursed Totem may be useful. It barrs krenko and kiki too, so they have to try to overrun us with siege gang and lords, a game we are better equipped to win. Of course it also hurts us, but you can get back the value of wurmcoil and simply hold until you are at a winning position. Granted if it is a weird list with some extra artifact removal, you'll probably have extra time to prepare.
It also hurts elves, but they have outs on GSZ to reclamation Sage.
I'm packing 2 totems and 1 torpor orb SB.
I'm gonna try it friday in my training group.

That's actually a pretty good idea IMO. It shuts down MW but otherwise you don't really rely on kuldotha against goblins ... It is also depending on the number of ballista you are running (just a 1-of in my list).
I can also see a utility of this card agaist grisel (not sure how it actually plays out)

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Jorruk

That's actually a pretty good idea IMO. It shuts down MW but otherwise you don't really rely on kuldotha against goblins ... It is also depending on the number of ballista you are running (just a 1-of in my list).
I can also see a utility of this card agaist grisel (not sure how it actually plays out)

I think against griselbrand it's not good enough, because you're on a 3 turn clock. If its S&T they could also go emrakul or omniscience, if it's burning reanimator on sideboarded games they tend to switch to plan B (casting grave titan). Against stoneforge, they'll just fetch jitte instead of batterskull, so it's more useful to use torpor orb against blade and D&T.
I believe totem to be worth using against goblins, elves, maverick, infect (stops noble) and BG depths (stops hexmage, but we can't kuldotha, so it may backfire). A card worth using in 5 matches sounds good enough for me.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Silverflame

I think against griselbrand it's not good enough, because you're on a 3 turn clock. If its S&T they could also go emrakul or omniscience, if it's burning reanimator on sideboarded games they tend to switch to plan B (casting grave titan). Against stoneforge, they'll just fetch jitte instead of batterskull, so it's more useful to use torpor orb against blade and D&T.
I believe totem to be worth using against goblins, elves, maverick, infect (stops noble) and BG depths (stops hexmage, but we can't kuldotha, so it may backfire). A card worth using in 5 matches sounds good enough for me.

Totally agree with goblins, elves, maverick and BG depths but against infect I'm not totally sold on it. Shutting down MW, kuldotha, ballista and eventually steel hellkite is quite the opposite you want

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Jorruk

Totally agree with goblins, elves, maverick and BG depths but against infect I'm not totally sold on it. Shutting down MW, kuldotha, ballista and eventually steel hellkite is quite the opposite you want

On a second thought, I think you're right. The best play we have against infect is a huge ballista.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by Troll_ov_Grimness

The best card against infect is serrated arrows

It’s narrow but can shoot down 3 infect creatures even if they’re pumped and only costs 4 mana to cast

I used to play a Stax build with serrated arrows, contagion clasp and a 1-off contagion engine which allowed me to control the board very effectively through proliferate. Clasp comes down on turn 1 which can be very important against infect.

Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

Originally Posted by bruizar

I used to play a Stax build with serrated arrows, contagion clasp and a 1-off contagion engine which allowed me to control the board very effectively through proliferate. Clasp comes down on turn 1 which can be very important against infect.

Actually I think we are quite well prepared for the infect MU with our playset of lodestone, chalice, some 3-ball and Ugin.
We just have to be carefull and block when they can become immense us.
As least that is how I dow and it works quite well. Post board I bring thorns of amethyst, warping wail and I side out platinum emperion, sundering titan, coercive portal, wurmcoil.