We better be running up and down the floor after makes and misses. That is the way to ensure that even if Shaq starts out strong, he won't end that way. When he gets tired, he gets lazy. That is when the Deisel-Dozer comes out.

Oh, and it would be nice to see that double-teaming jazz on Wade everytime he comes across the half court line. At the very least, they will have to run him off some screens to get him the ball, and that will kill some time. He has proven that he is not averse to launching an ill-advised shot when the clock is running down.....not unlike LeBron in that aspect. Finally, Wade really gets rattled when (and concededly IF) he gets a couple charges called on him. I don't care how fast a guy is. NOBODY can stop on a dime from going that fast initially. Then, when he dishes to Shaq for the dunk, if a person takes a charge, it doesn't matter is Shaq is wide open and pulls the entire apparatus down because the charge will negate the bucket.

That means, Ben, take the charge in the lane when D. Wade comes dashing in....!

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."

Im pissed , fire flip now , he's screwed this team up and trade Sheed he's lazy and careless.

_________________10-6

June 3rd, 2006, 11:53 am

wjb21ndtown

pat wrote:

Im pissed , fire flip now , he's screwed this team up and trade Sheed he's lazy and careless.

My only gripe with Sheed is his propensity to cry and whine about calls... That portion of his personality has seemingly spread throughout the team, and around the league we're known as a bunch of whiners... I'm not happy at all about that... However, I LOVE Sheed as a player... I love his heart, emotion, passion, ext... I don't think he's lazy at all... IMO the team lacked energy as a group, and I blame most of that on a lack of cohesion, lack of a team plan, a lack of a good game plan, and the players failing to believe in their HC...

June 3rd, 2006, 1:29 pm

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10493Location: Sycamore, IL

Throughout the entire playoffs, Sheed has been lazy. He's rarely posted up, especially on mismatches. He hasn't played good D at all. He hasn't rebounded and blocked shots well. He hangs around trying to shoot 3s WAY too often. He's just played like shiat and I hope he's not around next year. I was calling for his oust last season, but he still hung around.

Throughout the entire playoffs, Sheed has been lazy. He's rarely posted up, especially on mismatches. He hasn't played good D at all. He hasn't rebounded and blocked shots well. He hangs around trying to shoot 3s WAY too often. He's just played like shiat and I hope he's not around next year. I was calling for his oust last season, but he still hung around.

IMO it's too tough to say whether Sheed not posting up is a product of game planning or laziness... IMO it is more the former than the latter... Sheed is willing to go down low, but IMO it is Flip that WANTED him at the three point line to create mis-matches, defensive break downs, and force Miami out of their comfort zone of banging down low...

June 3rd, 2006, 2:12 pm

Godmoney

Stadium Announcer

Joined: March 14th, 2006, 3:15 amPosts: 67Location: The Yak

pat wrote:

Im pissed , fire flip now , he's screwed this team up and trade Sheed he's lazy and careless.

Fire Flip? I'm sorry but everybody does deserve a year. The reason why the Pistons ran into trouble is that the offensive became too dependent on the jump shot. The Pistons did get their shots in Game 6, but the shots weren't falling.

This is really the first time in the season that the Pistons went into a slump and in the playoffs its hard to fight off. The offensive flowing thru Billups hands stopped and he was in a shooting slump.

The defense wasn't the problem, it was the offensive. To solve this problem we need to come up with a plan to play more five-on-five basketball (yes with Ben Wallace on the floor we do play four-on-five).

Sheed isn't a problem he is one of the best power fowards in basketball, what upgrade do you want? KG? That ain't gonna happen. Tay isn't a problem, he is the key to the future, he stays. Rip signed a seven year contract a couple of years ago, he stays.

Billups is going to ask for too big of a contract, it might poison the team for the future years so this is going to be a problem in the future. Billups is great, but can will fill the void with somebody else? Joe D will have to come up with a creative answer.

Big Ben shouldn't be signed for more than three years, because of the high energy game that he plays at, his batteries will run out three years tops. Again, if the Pistons sign him for more, bring me the poison. He is the leader of the Pistons and the heart of the team, but playing four-on-five is killing us and he didn't give a monster game in the playoffs when we needed him to clean up the boards.

The choice may not be what Detroit fans want to hear...

We need a upgrade on the bench at the one spot and the three spot. A veteran can plug the whole at the one, we need maybe somebody to threaten will threes at the three spot.

Hunter is a great veteran that will stay because of his defense (lets hope his legs stay up). Delk is poop, he plays like he wants to score fifty points again, he needs to be drugged and calm down (he tends to shoot like the shot clock is at one). McDyess is getting back to his old self, he'll last three more years at this stage. Carlos is another talented player that will go to waste, because the team doesn't need to use him often, because we are stacked at the one and two spot. I like Evans, but we could use an upgrade in the offseason.

With this current team, we'll contend for maybe three years tops. The team is getting old, sadly Bad Boys II is coming to an end. In three years this will be a different team, only Tay and Rip will remain.

_________________Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned

June 5th, 2006, 7:03 am

blueblood1

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:19 pmPosts: 577

Godmoney wrote:

what upgrade do you want? KG?

Yup. Joe D., Go get him.

Let Ben walk. Use the cap space to sign the Ticket. Outlast the Spurs as perennial finals contenders.

It just makes sense on so many levels.....

KG likes Flip (and vice versa). Flip knows how to use the Ticket.
There aren't any players with the defensive intensity/ferocity of Big Ben....KG is darn close.

Big Ticket and Big Shot got roots together.

He can single-handedly break through and score when buckets are hard to come by during offensive lulls in the playoffs.

It just makes sense on so many levels.....

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."

My favorite day ever as a Lions fan.

Somehow landing the Ndamo-nator would be the second best day ever.

June 5th, 2006, 12:59 pm

wjb21ndtown

Godmoney wrote:

pat wrote:

Im pissed , fire flip now , he's screwed this team up and trade Sheed he's lazy and careless.

Fire Flip? I'm sorry but everybody does deserve a year. The reason why the Pistons ran into trouble is that the offensive became too dependent on the jump shot. The Pistons did get their shots in Game 6, but the shots weren't falling.

That's bullcrap... Flip lacks innovation, lacks strategy, and lacks the ability to make game changes... It took him FIVE EFFIN' GAMES to realize that the "hack a Ben" strategy was WORKING and we should have COUNTERED IT...

In addition, he's not a leader and the team doesn't respect him at all... He needs to go...

June 5th, 2006, 1:30 pm

TADOne

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: April 27th, 2005, 3:26 pmPosts: 1776

Quote:

That's bullcrap... Flip lacks innovation, lacks strategy, and lacks the ability to make game changes... It took him FIVE EFFIN' GAMES to realize that the "hack a Ben" strategy was WORKING and we should have COUNTERED IT...

In addition, he's not a leader and the team doesn't respect him at all... He needs to go...

wjb,

I need to disagree with you on a few points. First off, Flip doesn't lack innovation. Quite the contrary, he is actually a very good offensive mind. He draws up good sets and runs good plays out of timeouts. That was the main selling point in Joe hiring him. He also doesn't lack strategy. You don't win 64 games unless you can gameplan.

However, I do agree that Flip doesn't adjust well during games. This can be countered during the season with a team with good leaders like we have. But it will encounter problems in the playoffs, as we saw. But Flip is not a dumb coach. The experience from this year will help him next season. This is already our 4th coach in 5 seasons. We cannot keep discarding coaches everytime we fall short. This makes us look bad as an organization.

As for leadership issues and the fact that players don't respect the coach, that is simply not true. A couple of players questioned the gameplan and said we didn't emphasize defense enough in practice. It got blown way out of proportion. Every team has issues and every coach gets questioned. But in Detroit it was a made into a bigger story than it should have because of the fact we have great harmony in the lockerroom. So the press ran with it. Some of those players apologized to the coach themselves about their coments being misconstrued. Not a big deal IMO.

_________________Regards,

Tim

June 5th, 2006, 2:08 pm

hotLionschick

National Champion

Joined: September 17th, 2005, 11:26 amPosts: 845Location: Michigan

Oh shure bringing in Garnett is the answer.thats the why Flip, Kevin and Chauncy couldnt Make it out of the first round in Minesota.

June 5th, 2006, 9:00 pm

wjb21ndtown

TADOne wrote:

As for leadership issues and the fact that players don't respect the coach, that is simply not true. A couple of players questioned the gameplan and said we didn't emphasize defense enough in practice. It got blown way out of proportion. Every team has issues and every coach gets questioned. But in Detroit it was a made into a bigger story than it should have because of the fact we have great harmony in the lockerroom. So the press ran with it. Some of those players apologized to the coach themselves about their coments being misconstrued. Not a big deal IMO.

Tad... Apparently you didn't see Ben Wallace refuse to go back into a game when his coach told him to... Or Rasheed Wallace shrug him off when he was going to the bench in the Heat series... IMO the players don't respect him or his game plan at all and that is one of the major reasons you don't see it working... You can say he is an innovative offensive mind, but when we fail to run Rip around al la the Indiana series last year and wear out a flu infested Wade, that is just plain idiotic... Maybe flip is a good X's and O's offensive mind, but IMO he lacks the ability to create a solid game plan based upon his personnel... It seems like he knows what to do to beat a team, but doesn't know how to take HIS team and do it... Maybe he just needs "his" guys... IDK... but he certainly didn't use our guys to the greatest of their abilities....

June 6th, 2006, 12:17 am

TADOne

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: April 27th, 2005, 3:26 pmPosts: 1776

Quote:

Tad... Apparently you didn't see Ben Wallace refuse to go back into a game when his coach told him to... Or Rasheed Wallace shrug him off when he was going to the bench in the Heat series... IMO the players don't respect him or his game plan at all and that is one of the major reasons you don't see it working... You can say he is an innovative offensive mind, but when we fail to run Rip around al la the Indiana series last year and wear out a flu infested Wade, that is just plain idiotic... Maybe flip is a good X's and O's offensive mind, but IMO he lacks the ability to create a solid game plan based upon his personnel... It seems like he knows what to do to beat a team, but doesn't know how to take HIS team and do it... Maybe he just needs "his" guys... IDK... but he certainly didn't use our guys to the greatest of their abilities....

I saw Ben refuse to go back in the game and also saw Rasheed shrug off his coach. I didn't see it as a big deal. Every team goes thru some strife during a long season. Even Ben said it wasn't that big a deal and his teammates agreed. He was frustrated. It happens. But Ben is a consumate pro and if it really was a big deal, I'm sure he would go directly to Joe and say don't even think of trying to resign me unless you get a new coach. That hasn't happened and I don't see it happening.

As for Rasheed, he has always been a very emotional player. It wasn't the first time that he blew off a coach when coming out of a game, and it won't be the last. Also not a big deal IMO.

However, I do agree with you that he didn't use our players to the best of their abilities, most notably the bench. The only thing he didn't do right with the starters was giving them more rest so they had their legs. But bottom line, the players still have to execute, and they didn't do that. Rip was getting plenty of good looks, but his shot was off. I saw him running off many screens and attacking, but he just could not find a rhythm. That is not Flip's fault. Rip was in the position to succeed, he was just off. It happens.

_________________Regards,

Tim

June 6th, 2006, 8:38 am

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

hotLionschick wrote:

Oh shure bringing in Garnett is the answer.thats the why Flip, Kevin and Chauncy couldnt Make it out of the first round in Minesota.

Well that was also when the Western Conference had insanely great teams all peaking like the Sac Kings, Dallas Mavs, San Antonio, and the LA Lakers. I speculate that Minnesota would have walked through the Eastern Conference back then. It was called the Leastern conference for a reason.

There is no reasonable way we could get Garnett though...we would have to trade enough players to match his enormous salary...we would be essentially gutting our team of three starters.

I have been thinking and what we really need to do is bolster our bench beyond just McDyess.

Here is a list of free agents...headlined by our own. I have added some comments on my thoughts on some of these guys.

Quote:

Ben Wallace, PF/C, Detroit - need to keep him for reasonable priceJason Terry, PG, Dallas - Dallas will likely keep himPeja Stojakovic, SF, Indiana (Player option) - always liked him but he will stayAl Harrington, PF, Atlanta - could we have gotten him for Darko??? He will not be content with bench role.Mike James, Toronto (Player option) - Part of our championship team. Would be nice coming off the bench...could have used his ability to drive BIGTIME. He will not look for a back up role.Chris Wilcox, PF, Seattle (Restricted) - tough young player...would like to see what he could do with more minutes.Nene, PF/C, Denver (Restricted) - would be a great support player on the front line. Doubt denver lets him go.Drew Gooden, PF, Cleveland (Restricted) - of all the FA I like a lot. He has a nice post game and scraps for boards. He reminds me of a younger smoother Corliss Williamson. Would definately bolster our bench.Bonzi Wells, SG/SF, Sacramento - My other favorite FA. Would be nice to have a guy to confidently relieve tayshaun and rip of minutes and can put the biscut in the basket. I think this is the best reality for us. He wanted to come to Dtown last year.Matt Harpring, SG/SF, Utah Joel Przybilla, C, Portland Ronald Murray, Cleveland Speedy Claxton, PG, New Orleans - If Linday retires Speedy would make a nice scoring option. He can get hot at times much like Vinny,Vladimir Radmanovic, SF/PF, LA Clippers - We need another jump shooter like we need a hole in the head.Jared Jeffries, Washington (Restricted) James Posey, SG/SF, Miami (Player option) Nazr Mohammed, C, San Antonio - A possibility at backup if nothing else materializes. He has never met his potential.Reggie Evans, PF, Denver Keith Van Horn, SF/PF, Dallas - how many teams has this guy been on? Definately not a starter but he could certainly be an offensive spark on occasion. Sam Cassell, PG, LA Clippers - He is starter and the Clippers will probably keep him due to their first nice season in...well ever.Alonzo Mourning, Miami - I hate this guy.Fred Jones, Indiana (Restricted) Ruben Patterson, Denver (Player option) - mehBobby Jackson, PG/SG, MemphisFrancisco Elson, Denver (Restricted)

Some of my favorites are Bonzi Wells who has expressed interest just last year in coming here, Drew Gooden who likely will not come (love his post game and rebounding), and Al Harrington who can drive to the hoop unlike the Pistons. The latter are pie in the sky and will likely cost some money, but I think Bonzi is a reality. I also like Wilcox.

If Ben decides to chase the money and gets a max offer from like a Chicago then we have some really limited options.

Nothing there catches my eye for any sort of even comprable replacement for Ben. And because of losing Bens toughness that completely changes our team. If we had a PF who was a beast on the boards that would be one thing but Rasheed is not that. I think if Ben leaves we will be forced to change the lineup by picking up one of these Mohammed, Nene, or Olowokandi types and then supplimenting our front court with an additional tough minded roubounder PF like Drew Gooden, Chris Wilcox, and a Lorenz Wright off the bench. Or we will be forced to make some sort of trade for a solid big man but I doubt that would be happening.

Here is the irony...if Ben leaves...and we are scrambling to find a big man...think of the ginormous double mistake Dumars will be saddled with in not only drafting Darko but then letting him go when we need a big body. WOW.

Anyways...the point is we need to add a couple solid bench options that can either post up down low or are comfortable driving in. Letting Ben go only totally kills the team and forces us to recreate the team in a sense. With our inconsitencies on offense our defense was the ONLY thing that kept us in games at times and that all starts and ends with Ben in the middle. Although he doesn't score he is the huge exception to the rule because he changes the game with his defense alone.

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

June 6th, 2006, 9:22 am

TADOne

Play by Play Announcer - Al Michaels

Joined: April 27th, 2005, 3:26 pmPosts: 1776

I also agree Bonzi would be out # 1 option to bolster our bench. We can only offer him out mid-level exception, which would pay him 5 million. After the series he had against the Spurs, he may be looking for a bigger payday. Hopefully we can intrigue him with the possibilty of a championship ring.

I also like Bobby Jackson. When healthy, he is a very complete player who can drive. Option B would be Speedy Claxton. Same as Bobby but Bobby is a more complete player, although Claxton is younger.

We really don't need anyone like Gooden or Wilcox. They are PF's. We already have Sheed and Dyess at that position. And Maxiell should be in the rotation next year.

Mike James will want too much money and wants to start. Unfortunately, not an option.

Someone I do like that we can bring in as a backup center is Joel Przybilla from Portland. He is young, 7 feet, and has a ton of potential. I think if we could get him and Bobby Jack or Speedy, that would be ideal.

_________________Regards,

Tim

June 6th, 2006, 11:38 am

blueblood1

Div 1 - Starter

Joined: March 3rd, 2005, 2:19 pmPosts: 577

Strange trades come down all the time when an all star player decides he has a chance to play for a contender (think Rockets after they switched to the circus uniforms). I am a little light on knowledge of trade rules, but what about a sign and trade of Ben and maybe a young prospect (amir johnson or DeFino) and maybe even a pick to MIN for KG?

Then KG could agree to various re-structuring manuevers or whatever.

Oh, and the Wolves with KG and Flip back in the day was a pretty awesome team. If it weren't for the [put your NBA pro-lakers/knicks conspiracy-theory here], MIN could very well have beaten the Lakers. KG was a man possessed.

_________________"With the second pick in the 2007 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Calvin Johnson, WR from Georgia Tech."