Your search for compassion for Vunak is admirable, though I don't buy the line that you have no involvement in this situation, but neither do I care.

Everyone who knows Paul also knows about his personal issues, which have been long held and fairly well document so we won't dig up old bones. For over a decade I blindly supported Paul in the face of many stories of the way he treated people, I just chose to disbelieve or ignore them because I was upholding an ideal in my own mind of him being the kind of person you'd like to think he is.

That all stopped when I made the huge mistake of disagreeing with his point of view, nothing more, and for this I was subjected to the same kind of treatment endured by Mr Singh and Mr Garringer. We all have our own issues and problems and to a certain extent we all deserve compassion, but when a man starts threatening your family compassion ends, bottom line, end of story.

Finally, you need to give up this childish notion of people being deadly masters and psychotic killers. That's how hero worship starts and many martial artists rely on this kind of naivety to maintain their own legend. A man who spits messages of hate and hurt at people from behind the safety of a mobile phone or email is not a legend, is not a fighter, and is not a victim to be pitied.

7/11/2012 7:53am,

It is Fake

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwog

Oh no, I find his behavior extremely peculiar and disturbing, and you're right that there is a long-standing pattern from what I understand and from things Mr. Vunak has said about himself.

I also find it very peculiar and disturbing that other people ended up with control over all of his websites as well as apparently financial arrangements, bank accounts and accountants.

I can name at a couple of none "peculiar and disturbing," reason as to why this would occur. None of them would be beneficial to Vu's side of the story.

Quote:

Then these people are calling him paranoid.

He signed on the dotted line.

Quote:

If you want supporting evidence, that's what I'm looking at and thinking it's very strange indeed.

I see a restraining order for various people, nothing yet from his camp.

Quote:

That and the fact that a number of long-standing friends and students have apparently factionalized against him and are talking about all the Great Things in the Wings for the organization.

Are you going to argue that businesses falling apart don't try to salvage something from nothing?

Quote:

Isn't that a wee bit odd?

Naw, the conclusions you are drawing seem a "wee bit odd."

7/11/2012 1:09pm,

Hanniballistic

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwog

Another thing is that I am seeing a bunch of guys who not long ago at all were nuthugging Vunak like there was no tomorrow, and now that he's down they've turned on him and are slamming him.

Like who? I have said little about him as a teacher, fighter or martial artist that is not complimentary. It is his behaviour I am at odds with - and you have echoed exactly the same sentiments.

Remeber Singh refinanced his own house, paid off Vu's bills, bought him a Porsche, ran the company and did everything he could to make DOM a success - Vu ADMITS this is true so you are barking up the wrong tree with the "Isn't it odd?" question.

As for the other poster who claimed me of being biased, well as I am with Singh I suppose you could state that - but again what have I posted that has not been corroborated? I have been as balanced an even handed as I can be. There are many other things that I stated I cannot, or more accurately will not, make public - if I could I doubt I would need to write this retort

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwog

That makes me kind of sick to my stomach. I've seen this happen so many times and it's really one of the ugliest facets of human nature. For some reason it's very common in the RBSD community.

It's far more common in MA's than anywhere else - RBSD is only one facet. Look at Korean politics or the Ninjutsu side of you want real drama....hell, look at JKDC vs OJKD as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwog

If you would like me to leave I will leave, and it sounds like that's what you're saying. I think I've said my piece. You do a good job of being evenhanded and fair. I like the title of the other thread-- the guy is only human.

And as such blind loyalty to him like you advocate would be misplaced n'est pas?

Everywhere - on facebook, my blog, MAP, bullshido etc I wished Vu, DOM and everyone all the best...I actually told people to train under him if they get the chance. No one has "turned" on him - they just won't accept this irrationality and threats as appropriate

Question gwog - Are you married or dating? If so, would you choose your partner of your teacher? That was the decision Singh was faced with at the genesis...and Vu if you remember stated that what Singh wrote WAS TRUE. How much more direct can you get in terms of evidence than a direct admission?

7/11/2012 1:30pm,

It is Fake

The funniest part is the little exchange on being a fighter or not. If you were so biased and dead set against him, why argue that point?

7/11/2012 1:42pm,

Hanniballistic

Bingo!

7/11/2012 2:20pm,

Permalost

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwog

These people were his students and they called themselves his friends. If they think Mr. Vunak is not well, they should be helping him, not slamming him in public.

Getting a restraining order against him is not about slamming him in public. If you're talking about other people, it'd be helpful to be more specific about who said what.

How would you go about helping him?

Quote:

I would certainly not be happy at all if someone threatened me that way. But it never happens because I live my life in such a way as to make it unnecessary.

It sounds like Singh was actually more than generous with Vunak before he went all rabid-dog, yet Singh was threatened by Vunak. I'll bet Singh thought he would never be threatened in that way either.

Quote:

When I say I'm somebody's friend, or when a teacher accepts me as a student, my loyalty to that person doesn't end when things go south.

I'll bet you would if it went far enough south. Ever had a teacher threaten you with a blowtorch? Cause Vunak did that.

Quote:

The stakes are obviously higher with higher amounts of money but then again you get back to the question of why these people were in control of the infrastructure, the only ones communicating with the accountants, et cetera et cetera. Given that all that is the case I find it very difficult to buy Vunak as the instigator of the problem.

Given the other story with Singh and what an asshole Vunak was being to the guy that financed his operations and got him a Porche, I find it easy to buy that Vunak was an instigator. That, and the part in his video where he admits to being an instigator.

Quote:

I give you my word that I am not connected in any way to Paul Vunak except that he's two upstream from me and that was a long time back. I have never spoken to, corresponded with or met the man.

I have nothing to do with him either, except I've seen some of his stuff on Youtube, read about him here, and read Anatomy of a Streetfight when I was a teenager.

Quote:

Why am I sticking up for him? I looked at that video and in that video I saw a guy who is not looking good. That dude is hurting and he needs help, not a bunch of people kicking him when he's down.

Getting a restraining order against an unhinged individual who has promised to do you physical harm is not kicking that man when he's down.

7/13/2012 10:19pm,

**** you Vunak your are such a bitch and a has been Ihope Har. Kicks the **** out of you.

7/13/2012 10:55pm,

Hanniballistic

Dude, not helping....

7/14/2012 12:14am,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanniballistic

Dude, not helping....

Hey bro NO offense to you. I just think he is a punk I went to one of his seminars and he treated us like ****, until one of the people in the seminar a Aikijujutsu guy took him down face in the floor in seconds . After that Vunak left the seminar leaving everybody hanging. There was about 3 hours left we paid good money there was no refund NOT Cool