if that is where you see the benefit of your water training, I am curious as to why you have been disagreeing with my points thus far, as we seem to be largely in accord

Maybe voicing your thoughts earlier, rather than stunted single sentence responses would have served you better? After all, before conditioning and balance, surely our greatest priority should always be communication

I still do not see any functional balance improvemnts being gained by the removal of gravitational force, but as I said, its your training and you are happy with it, thats a good thing.

The things that tried your patience with this site would no longer be allowed- perhaps you have sensed this and that is why you have returned? Whatever the case, this is neither the most scholarly, nor the most irreverent place, it is a balance, but i think you will find the conduct insisted upon to your standards. If anything, it gets criticised for being too strict, not apathetic.

Your opinion is not supported by facts, so far. Is that going to be a problem for you?

after going into detail in my post, as did laff, on the principles behind my standpoint, i kind of interperated the above quote as a disagreement.

if i was wrong, then my apologies. Either way, its always good to have a discussion that brings forth lots of detail in defence of standpoints, everyone benefits from the ability to share in the info posted.

Let's have another look at how this discussion has progressed. Cord responded to Tek9's statement, and i quote "Speed, power, balance. It is a full body workout.". So contrary to this statement from you

Quote: The thing is, & I hope you understand this distinction, I do not use kata to teach myself power & speed. No one asked that question.

, it was what was being discussed in this thread.

This is what you posted in response to Cord's statement about why water training isn't effective for speed and power.

Quote: I enjoy working against the resistance of the water. I’d rather not punch air. Timing my techniques in the surf is also entertaining. I find training in the water more effective as I find training in the water more enjoyable. It is training frequently that increases speed & power. I keep just my head above water.

This statement clearly suggests that you feel frequently training under water increases your speed and power, regardless of if that was your intention or not.

Then after two lengthy posts from Cord about why training in water isn't effective for speed and power you respond directly to him, even though there are 4 other posts between you, with this...

Quote: Fact #1: I train in the water.Fact #2: I am as effective as anyone.

When others question your second "fact" and after Cord points out the holes in your theory this is your only response.

Quote: CordFact #3: Practicing kata in water has provided the advantages of kata training with no discernable disadvantage(s).Your opinion is not supported by facts, so far. Is that going to be a problem for you?

This statement shows you were actively engaged in the discussion of the effects of water training on speed and power. When i question you about your statement to Cord and his lack of facts you give me a couple of BS one liners too, but when asked direct questions about where you think power is generated you ignore the question completely. Instead you start to back track with this statement and try to pretend you were talking about something else all together.

Quote: My kata is an artifact passed to me by my teachers. My kata is a dance to teach breathing. I breathe as well as anyone, thus my conclusion – based on this fact – that I am as effective as anyone. The surf, especially, I found effective at helping balance: lifting weights (free-weights, naturally), even more so. My opinion is that all the power & speed in the world is useless without proper breathing & balance.

So now that it's a little clearer what part you had in this conversation, as it would appear to me and maybe others. How exactly does training in water help with balance? Training in a pool with your head just above water as you claim you do has already been pointed out to not help your balance at all. If you are referring to using the force of waves to help with your balance then you might have something, provided you are able to find waves big enough for you to perform your techniques on without going waist deep in the water. Once you go past your waist in the water you are reducing the strain on your core muscles that provide balance. So whatever resistance you are training against with a wave is negated by the fact that you’re not working your core any harder. Simple core exercises would be much more effective for building power and balance.

If your enjoying your water training the by all means continue happily. But don't try to make it out to be something it's not. I do agree with this for the most part..

Quote: all the power & speed in the world is useless without proper breathing & balance

but you do realize power comes with balance, right?

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Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

Whatever effect my kata has on my speed, power, and balance, I’ve already stated twice that I use other training methods to truly drive those attributes. Training frequently – at least in my case – has a positive effect – however minor - on most all the attributes I seek. I did not state I use kata to develop speed & power. From my first comment I mentioned other training methods. I also mentioned these methods repeatedly: your delusions changed, not my point.

It is true I’ve ignored your "questions" as (based on your assertions thus far) I can only deduce you are a deliberately obtuse quibbling weasel defending your willful stupidity. Which of your questions are honest ones?

I am confident I can state that I am as effective as anyone, measured thus: I can bench press 340lbs fifteen times, tear a heavy bag free of its chains with a single punch (albeit not deliberately), and I can produce witnesses for this. This is at least average, right? There other measurements we could use: I breathe as well as anyone (also an example I’ve used).

Training with free-weights – in addition to obvious strength development - is one method of developing balance (a training method mentioned twice, & at least once in this context). Additionally & specifically, training in the estuary at Popham Beach, Maine, also aids my footwork & balance, & that’s just plain common sense.