Welcome

Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the
symbol in each box.

Welcome to Am I Infected

Welcome to the "Am I Infected?" POZ forum.

New members -- those who have posted three or fewer messages -- are permitted to post questions and responses, free of charge (make them count!). Ongoing participation in the "Am I Infected?" forum -- posting more than three questions or responses -- requires a paid subscription.

A seven-day subscription is $9.99, a 30-day subscription is $14.99 and a 90-day subscription is $24.99.

Anyone who needs to post more than three messages in the "Am I Infected?" forum -- including past, present and future POZ Forums members -- will need to subscribe, with secure payments made via PayPal.

There will be no charge to continue reading threads in the "Am I Infected?" forum, nor will there be a charge for participating in any of the Main Forums; Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits; and Off Topic Forums. Similarly, all POZ pages, including our "HIV Transmission and Risks" and "Am I Infected? (A Guide to Testing for HIV)" basics, will remain accessible to all.

NOTE: HIV testing questions will still need to be posted in the "Am I Infected?" forum; attempts to post HIV symptoms or testing questions in any other forums will be considered violations of our rules of membership and subject to time-outs and permanent bans.

To learn how to upgrade your Forums account to participate beyond three posts in the "Am I Infected?" Forum, please click here.

Thank you for your understanding and future support of the best online support service for people living with, affected by and at risk for HIV.

Author
Topic: Vaginal Secretions No Penetration (Read 21602 times)

I first want to thank you everyone for considering my question. I acknowledge that i am very scared,in a significant amount of distress and need some information.

It starts with lap dances that went too far. The head of my penis was exposed. The dancer had slid her thong/panties to the side and I briefly felt wetness and moisture. I am certain there was no penetration. When I felt the moisture and realized what was happening I adjusted my position so that I was no longer exposed.

The next day I realized there was an abrasion on the head of my penis likely from the vigorous lap dances. I was feeling very guilty on a number of levels as I am a husband/father. I added FEAR to the guilt and my head has been filled with a scary narrative for the last few days

I need some straight forward information and advice

1. Please tell me about my risk of HIV from the grinding with the head of my penis exposed to vaginal secretions and no penetration. The period of exposure was less than 10 seconds;

2. Please tell me about the additional HIV risk from the abrasion on the head of my penis;

3. When and how often should I test;

4. Please let me know if should ask my wife to get tested;

5. Please let me know if I should refrain from sexual activity with my wife

I acknowledge that I am feeling very emotional and scared. I need information and facts. Thanks

There was absolutely no risk for HIV transmission during this incident as Rod has told you. HIV is a fragile virus and needs a very receptive setting like unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse for sexual transmission to take place.

Just make sure if you ever have intercourse with anyone other than your wife that you wear a condom and you will be well protected as far as HIV is concerned.

Guilt is the real issue here and not HIV risk. Give it up, let it go and get on with your life. There's no need for HIV testing, abrasion notwithstanding.

Andy: I am trying so hard to let go of the fears and not having great success. I think I need to better understand why no risk if there was exposure to secretions. I also am now having some intestinal problems and that is making me more concerned. I also feel much anger and hatred toward myself for my actions. All of this in combination.

The kind of contact you had with secretions is NOT the same as occurs during vaginal or anal intercourse. As I said previously, HIV is a fragile virus. We know from years of experience in the epidemic that touching, rubbing, mutual masturbation and such do not present a risk for transmission. (Read the less on Transmission for further details. There's a link to it in the Weldcome thread which opens this section.)

Not incidentally, the vaginal secretions which might carry HIV are in the cervical area, far up from the area you were dillydallying with during this incident.

File, what this is really about is guilt over having strayed. Your symptoms may as easily be from stress. If they persist then check them out with your doctor. They absolutely are nothing HIV-specific. That's no surprise since you didn't have a risk.

As for the guilt part, you're just a dawg like a lot of others here. You went straying and you can't undo that bit of your personal history. Accept, take a breath and let it go. It's not a tribute yourself to be beating yourself up nor one to your wife. Let it go and get on with your life. Really.

I very much appreciate the informative and direct responses. I also know that Andy's comments are offered with knowledge and understanding. I am trying to move forward and accept the no risk information.

I would like to know if the no penetration no risk view is well accepted. I realize there can be different types of experts and would like to know if this view concerning vaginal contact is well regarded. The same question regarding risk posed by outer secretions. Thanks

Collecting more of the same will not address the issue of guilt, which in my experience maybe driving your continuing concern. Dealing with guilt is an inside job and not something that is going to go away by collecting repetitous re-statements of the same facts.

Very well stated. Now the hard part is letting go of the fear which seems to be fueled by looking for symptoms. The symptom today is sores/white film in my mouth. There is no question that my emotions are keeping my focus on issues of risk and this is a viscious cycle.

6. Based upon the foregoing I should be able to accept the information. The fact that I have difficulty accepting means more is going on in my head

7. I realize that my focus on "symptoms" is adding fuel to the fear and contributing to my problem

8. I also realize that when I feel or think about something that makes me happy I am almost instantly hit with fear and emotion regarding the potential HIV risk. Once again this should be telling me something about my emotional state at present

9. I realize the emotional component is preventing me from fully accepting the objective information provided by those with knowledge. I realize this could be viewed as disrespectful on my part, however, that is not my intention

10. I again want to express appreciation to those who contribute and provide valuable information on this site

Now that you've identified your main problem as being an emotional, rather than physical, one, I suggest you seek out some one-to-one counseling. We cannot help you with the emotional component to your troubles here.

Once again, nothing that happened during your lapdance put you at risk for hiv infection.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple. Read through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I would like to pose a question to Ann or others from something I read in a number of older threads.

I read where Ann previously wrote in a number of older posts that frottage even where the penis rubs against the outside of a wet vagina is not a risk. I would like to know if Ann and others continue to stand by this position and whether there has been any scientific information inconsistent with this view. Thanks

I appreciate the response. Please know that I wasn't doubting her view. Rather, I wanted to know if there was any additional information. The combination of guilt, emotion, fear etc. takes my thoughts in many directions

We don't provide a hand holding service for the freaked out customers of titty-bars and strip joints. We've provided you with the HIV transmission information that is relevant to your situation. If you need someone to talk to about your emotional health you really should see a therapist.

If you've read the Welcome Thread like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

If you've read the Welcome Thread like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

I have just read my thread again after a self imposed time out. I self imposed a week and made it 5 days.

I now realize that my questions could have sounded offensive and/or skeptical particularily to Ann and this was never my intent. I am most respectful of the experts who run and moderate this forum. If I said anything offensive I sincerely apolgize. If further time out or other sanction is necessary I will respect your decision.

In the meantime, I have read many other threads and posts. This site is a tremendous source of information

I am experiencing very itchy scalp over the last 2-3 days. I would like to know if this symptom combined with the abrasion on the penis at the time of the incident (approximately 3 weeks prior to now) is reason to test. Thanks

I concur with Andy's advice and assessment. Please do not use the PM function to solicit answers. Trust me, if any qualified person disagreed, we would do so in public.

You have had no risk for HIV.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I recently read that with "exceptional circumstances" frottage can be a risk. I am concerned that the penile abrasion and exposure to vaginal secretions is the type of exceptional circumstance which presents such a risk. I continue to experience an itchy scalp and I am afraid this is the type of dermatitis that comes with early/primary hiv infection. I don't see anything on my scalp, however, it does itch very often. I don't understand what is meant by exceptional circumstances and would like some additional information. Thanks

We've already told you what we think. We're not interested in taking on the task of explaining what you have gotten from some other source. Why don't you ask them? And even better why don't stop looking around for more fuel to feed your unfounded fears?

I would like to know if there is a connection with itchy scalp and early HIV symptom. I continue to experience a very itchy scalp and I have connected this as a symptom. I now react to the itch with fear and worry and I am not sure if this connection is real. I appreciate any information people here can provide

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result orno-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

I followed the suggestion of the learned professionals and sought some counselling to help with the fears. I made great progress understanding my thinking. I have recently been thrown a small curve and would like to post my current concern

I developed a quarter size very itchy patch on my scrotum following sex. I was wearing a lubricated condom and after sex the area where the shaft meets the scrotum was covered with a white substance (vaginal discharge/lube?). The next morning the same area was red and extremely itchy. I didn't initially think much about this issue. Over the next few days the cycle kept repeating. I used lotrimin thinking it might be yeast.

When it is a few days without sexual activity the itch subsides, however, the skin remains chaffed. When I have sex the area becomes very itchy and the cycle starts new

My thoughts have turned to possible HIV symptom. I would like to know if this sounds like a possible symptom. I am trying to push this from my mind, however, it isn't easy.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

It says that I should consider a new topic because this thread is more than 60 days old, however, I thought the rules were to post all questions in the same place. I think the correct decision is to post here. i apologize if I am wrong

I took the advice and stepped back from the Internet and concentrated on counselling. I made much progress. I now have returned because of some things that really appear like symptoms and are causing much renewed fear and distress

The risk/exposure was last August and involved brief < 10 seconds penis to vagina contact without penetration, however, there were vaginal secretions. i later noticed a small abrasion on the head of my penis

I worked hard to accept no risk and made good progress. i have now been diagnosed with facial and ocular rosacea. The facial rosacea has apparently caused ocular rosacea with dry eye. I have read much about a connection between rosacea and early (not primary) HIV symptoms. I also have noticed more bruising on my body than usual

I know my knowledge of HIV is VERY limited. Thus I am here asking for your expert comments. I WILL NOT POST REPEATED FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS

Rather, I am requesting information on whether facial rosacea is, in fact, a potential HIV symptom. My therapist says this is my fear trying to take over and doesn't believe there is a basis for my concerns. I am not so sure. I am not in a position of knowledge. Thus I most respectfully ask this group for guidance

I have not tested because I was told it wasn't necessary and I worked very hard to accept that information. I didn't want to allow the fear to win. Now i am not so sure I did the right thing

I say thanks in advance for responding as I will not engage in further debate. I will merely read your responses and then attempt to leave my own Internet research behind.

No, facial and ocular rosacea are NOT HIV-specific. And you're worrying needlessly (still) because non-penetrative contact with vaginal lips/fluids on the head of your penis is not a risk for HIV transmission. Period.

Your credentials in HIV education and mental health are impressive. Your comment today was most helpful and has temporarily made me stop and think. With your permission I would like to share your comment as I work to resolve me fear and worry. Thanks

I have been diagnosed with severe dry eye and the symptoms are ongoing throughout the day. The eye doctor doesn't explain the cause of dry eye and only attempt to treat the symptoms.

Dry eye is listed as an early HIV symptom. Thus, the eye problems I experience throughout the day are causing me to really fear that I am experiencing HIV related symptoms. I would like to know if this is a symptoms during the first year of exposure

Perhaps I am making connections without a real basis and would like your thoughts. Thanks

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I very much appreciate the time and effort of the well informed moderators of this forum

I realize I have 2 choices. I can either accept the no risk analysis or continue to fear that the very annoying dry eye and recurrent fungal infection represent symptoms. Unforunately, the meaning I give to these annoying symptoms makes things difficult

There is nothing more to gain from continuing to solicit further reassurance. In fact, it might be counter productive

Please know that your assistance is appreciated and never taken for granted