DRblank is completely correct, it is absolutely ridiculous that manufactures who use Android as their OS take so damn long to release an update. It's the individual manufactures fault though, not Google's, Android. Google releases the source code for Android in a very timely manner and even update their own devices fairly quickly, normally within the same month of a new Android release. The problem is, In a attempt to stand out from the rest, mobile makers add their own flare to Android as well as custom software. With this approach the manufacturer has to completely migrate their software and custom desktop to the new Android version every time it's updated. This takes time but not 6 months. Another problem is manufactures seem to ditch even their best handsets after two years with no further updates. Now the custom ROM communities like CyanogenMod has done a wonderful job in picking up the slack but manufactures cannot/should not rely on this community to pick up their slack.

As a programmer and an overall computer tinker, I use custom ROMS from the get go so I enjoy the latest updates and most secure phone possible, the normal user should also enjoy these benefits. Get off your butt's Android phone makers.

Show me the history of a specific OEM Android phone release date of their updates and compare it to Google's update release date. Please show me proof it doesn't take 6 months. Google released 4.2.2 in February and when did Samsung start releasing updates for the S3? It wasn't until when?

There are models of OEM phones that STILL can't get the 4.2.2 update and that's more than 6 months old update. These custom ROMs are not what the majority of users do, the majority of users use what the mfg has released.

Oh I'm not arguing it's a complete mess. I forgot to mention before, now I'm making this number up but I believe more than 50% of the phones with Android installed on it are really feature-phones and not smart-phones. Phone manufactures who built cheap phones for the check out counter and the prepaid market used to use Java based OS's, Symbian and other custom embedded system that required a license for each phone sold. When Android came along with it's free to use license, manufactures flocked to it like fly's on crap. However they were still using their cheap hardware to run it, thus the reason why than more than half of the Android installed base is still using a very old version. The hardware would be all but useless with version 4 and above.

Android phones that compete directly with Apple's offerings are a different story, there is absolutely no excuse for these not to have the latest version of Android and continue to have the latest version for at least 3 years. It is getting better, companies like Huawei have started to update their software monthly but they keep tjeir Android version as close to stock as possible. I think that's the key, Google needs to take back control of Android, phone manufactures should only be responsible for the hardware, maybe a desktop theme and the drivers needed to run it, that's it. The rest comes from Google, until this is implemented it will always be a mess.

All that said, I still like Android OS, only when it's stock, stripped of all unnecessary apps and customized to my liking. The positives of Android OS and the list of things that I can do with it outweighs any negatives that the platform may have, at least for me anyway. But I also fully understand and support your and others feelings towards Android, it makes complete sense. You already use a platform that does everything you want, it's stable, fun to use and best of it looks good.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Oh I'm not arguing it's a complete mess. I forgot to mention before, now I'm making this number up but I believe more than 50% of the phones with Android installed on it are really feature-phones and not smart-phones. Phone manufactures who built cheap phones for the check out counter and the prepaid market used to use Java based OS's, Symbian and other custom embedded system that required a license for each phone sold. When Android came along with it's free to use license, manufactures flocked to it like fly's on crap. However they were still using their cheap hardware to run it, thus the reason why than more than half of the Android installed base is still using a very old version. The hardware would be all but useless with version 4 and above.

Android phones that compete directly with Apple's offerings are a different story, there is absolutely no excuse for these not to have the latest version of Android and continue to have the latest version for at least 3 years. It is getting better, companies like Huawei have started to update their software monthly but they keep tjeir Android version as close to stock as possible. I think that's the key, Google needs to take back control of Android, phone manufactures should only be responsible for the hardware, maybe a desktop theme and the drivers needed to run it, that's it. The rest comes from Google, until this is implemented it will always be a mess.

All that said, I still like Android OS, only when it's stock, stripped of all unnecessary apps and customized to my liking. The positives of Android OS and the list of things that I can do with it outweighs any negatives that the platform may have, at least for me anyway. But I also fully understand and support your and others feelings towards Android, it makes complete sense. You already use a platform that does everything you want, it's stable, fun to use and best of it looks good.

Yeah, it's a mess. Oh well.

Now, you mentioned that you like using the STOCK, STRIPPED of all unnecessary apps and customized to your liking. Right? Well, every-time I talk to what I will refer to as an Android Hemorrhoid is their excuse for preferring Android is that it's customizable. I guess you just like the stock, isn't that more like just a feature smartphone rather than a REAL smartphone if it's stripped down?

The ONLY two gripes I have about Apple phones, are that they haven't released a larger screen version because i have poor eyesight. And that they really should put more RAM inside. Other than that, I don't have much to complain about. I'm actually interested to see if/when they will come out with IGZO screen technology as that's supposed to go higher resolution, lower power and other potential benefits.

Show me the history of a specific OEM Android phone release date of their updates and compare it to Google's update release date. Please show me proof it doesn't take 6 months. Google released 4.2.2 in February and when did Samsung start releasing updates for the S3? It wasn't until when?

There are models of OEM phones that STILL can't get the 4.2.2 update and that's more than 6 months old update. These custom ROMs are not what the majority of users do, the majority of users use what the mfg has released.

Well first, Samsung takes forever. Their also skipping 4.2.2 and going straight to 4.3. Last week in October, first week of November is the release date for 4.3 in the U.S., 4.3 has already rolled out to some of the carriers in Europe like Orange and Deutsche Telekom. The S2 also got an update here in Europe too 4.2.2, not sure about the US, if you have an unlocked version you can download and install it manually from Deutsche Telekom. I can defiantly confirm Orange has the new S3 update as my sisters husband has one from work, uggly phone in my opinion, on the plus side it's indestructible, he dropped it in our kitchen which is granite, it just bounced with only a little scratch and my sister even washed it once.

Samsung always leaks the release two months prior though, here it is, 4.3 for the S3 if anyone wants it.

Edited by Relic - 10/11/13 at 1:31pm

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

........ isn't that more like just a feature smartphone rather than a REAL smartphone if it's stripped down?

Oh gosh no, I still have all of the regular apps we all enjoy every day like Spotify, Viber, Instagram, Evernote, etc. What I do is remove the apps that I don't use and then tweak the OS, streamline it(a whole lot), remove/install better system files, custom kernel, overclock GPU and CPU, turn off unwanted animations that are not found in normal settings, change display DPI, customize notifications and menus, install command line programs normally found in a full version of Linux or Unix, install a AMP (Apache, MySQL, PHP), Python, better sound drivers and settings, Init.d support, applications zipaligned on every boot, RSM management tweaks, Sqlite3 & ext4 tweak, just to name a few, the list is actually very, very long. I've got it down to science though and have automated a lot of the install and tweaks.

My biggest gripe with iOS is the lack of a file-manager and the way iOS handles it's data. If iOS was more like OSX I would be in hog heaven. Biggest reason why I want to get a Surface Pro 2, so I can turn it into a OSX tablet. I have a geek friend at Work who has an i5 Asus Eee Slate EP121 Tablet with OSX installed and I absolutely love it.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Well first, Samsung takes forever. Their also skipping 4.2.2 and going straight to 4.3. Last week in October, first week of November is the release date for 4.3 in the U.S., 4.3 has already rolled out to some of the carriers in Europe like Orange and Deutsche Telekom. The S2 also got an update here in Europe too 4.2.2, not sure about the US, if you have an unlocked version you can download and install it manually from Deutsche Telekom. I can defiantly confirm Orange has the new S3 update as my sisters husband has one from work, uggly phone in my opinion, on the plus side it's indestructible, he dropped it in our kitchen which is granite, it just bounced with only a little scratch and my sister even washed it once.

Samsung always leaks the release two months prior though, here it is, 4.3 for the S3 if anyone wants it.

They all take forever. It's the nature of the beast, they have to get the carrier's to approve of Samsung's modification to the original version.

Well, if you want iOS to have a file manager to work more like a desktop OS, send feedback to Apple. The problem is that I'm not sure if they will do that. It, unfortunately, makes it more like a desktop OS and I don't know if that will make it any easier. How Apple does things is they use syncing to iCloud for the apps that are also on the desktop (Iwork and ilife, etc apps) whereas you update it and it automatically updates to iCloud and your other devices. I like that feature. It makes it easier to use. Same goes with audio files, etc. I've never had a need to take a file from an iPhone or iPad and manually transfer it to the desktop. To me, that's one extra non-necessary step. The problem with these mobile devices is making too much like a desktop OS, it makes it more complicated than it needs to be.

Oh gosh no, I still have all of the regular apps we all enjoy every day like Spotify, Viber, Instagram, Evernote, etc. What I do is remove the apps that I don't use and then tweak the OS, streamline it(a whole lot), remove/install better system files, custom kernel, overclock GPU and CPU, turn off unwanted animations that are not found in normal settings, change display DPI, customize notifications and menus, install command line programs normally found in a full version of Linux or Unix, install a AMP (Apache, MySQL, PHP), Python, better sound drivers and settings, Init.d support, applications zipaligned on every boot, RSM management tweaks, Sqlite3 & ext4 tweak, just to name a few, the list is actually very, very long. I've got it down to science though and have automated a lot of the install and tweaks.

My biggest gripe with iOS is the lack of a file-manager and the way iOS handles it's data. If iOS was more like OSX I would be in hog heaven. Biggest reason why I want to get a Surface Pro 2, so I can turn it into a OSX tablet. I have a geek friend at Work who has an i5 Asus Eee Slate EP121 Tablet with OSX installed and I absolutely love it.

So your friend is illegally using OS X? Really? Why would you like a desktop OS on a tablet? What's the battery life on a Eee Slate? Those are big, thick, heavy. Most tablet users want thin, light weight, and long battery life. Microsoft already proved that theory which is why they aren't selling many Windows tablets running Windows 7 or 8. It's a very small niche market. I don't know if Apple is going to port all of OS X over to ARM or come out with an intel slate (thick and heavy tablet).

Oh gosh no, I still have all of the regular apps we all enjoy every day like Spotify, Viber, Instagram, Evernote, etc. What I do is remove the apps that I don't use and then tweak the OS, streamline it(a whole lot), remove/install better system files, custom kernel, overclock GPU and CPU, turn off unwanted animations that are not found in normal settings, change display DPI, customize notifications and menus, install command line programs normally found in a full version of Linux or Unix, install a AMP (Apache, MySQL, PHP), Python, better sound drivers and settings, Init.d support, applications zipaligned on every boot, RSM management tweaks, Sqlite3 & ext4 tweak, just to name a few, the list is actually very, very long. I've got it down to science though and have automated a lot of the install and tweaks.

What you have to do to your phone is a bunch of BS that most people are NOT going to waste their time doing. What a pain in the ass to get to that point of doing all of that on an OS. Sounds like a waste of time. Nothing standard so the device mfg certainly won't help you out when you have a problem. Not all of us are or even want to be a software developer that has to spend much of their precious time dicking around with an OS. Again, you are in a small less than .00001% of the Android community does what you do. Again, if you need to go through that mess just to get it to work the way you want, that means that the OS sucks.

What you have to do to your phone is a bunch of BS that most people are NOT going to waste their time doing. What a pain in the ass to get to that point of doing all of that on an OS. Sounds like a waste of time. Nothing standard so the device mfg certainly won't help you out when you have a problem. Not all of us are or even want to be a software developer that has to spend much of their precious time dicking around with an OS. Again, you are in a small less than .00001% of the Android community does what you do. Again, if you need to go through that mess just to get it to work the way you want, that means that the OS sucks.

Don't get upset silly, I do those things because I like it, not because the system needs it or sucks, it's a hobby. Most people would be comfortable with the standard OS. Over at XDA, we get together to see how far we can push the envelope and create something that fits are individual personalities. My goal is to turn my phone into a desktop PC when docked, so I compile each program from source on a ARM development board to assure the best possible performance and compatibility, I design my own icons, desktop backgrounds, I almost do everything from the ground up. Yes, we are a very small portion of the community but when I'm done with my custom ROM's I upload them to XDA for everyone to enjoy and hack it for themselves. Those who wish to use custom ROMS only need to install a flash program, load the ROM and click go but it takes people like me to build such things. There are also purist who take Google's source code and compiles just what's needed to run on a phone. I like to take things to a different level of craziness, it's not needed though to make the system useable.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Don't get upset silly, I do those things because I like it, not because the system needs it or sucks, it's a hobby. Most people would be comfortable with the standard OS. Over at XDA, we get together to see how far we can push the envelope and create something that fits are individual personalities. My goal is to turn my phone into a desktop PC when docked, so I compile each program from source on a ARM development board to assure the best possible performance and compatibility, I design my own icons, desktop backgrounds, I almost do everything from the ground up. Yes, we are a very small portion of the community but when I'm done with my custom ROM's I upload them to XDA for everyone to enjoy and hack it for themselves. Those who wish to use custom ROMS only need to install a flash program, load the ROM and click go but it takes people like me to build such things. There are also purist who take Google's source code and compiles just what's needed to run on a phone. I like to take things to a different level of craziness, it's not needed though to make the system useable.

Wow, sounds like a waste of time to me. Fits an individual personality? Whatever. You need to go to the XDA site and promote your hobby over there, otherwise you make yourself look, well, how else can I put it? A hemorrhoid. Seriously, you have told me far more than I even want to know about Android OS. To me, it's a failed OS platform largely due to the way it's distributed, I won't touch, I won't buy it, and I could give a RIP what people with nothing better to do with their time does with a freaking smartphone. I don't think you guys are even using these things to do what they were designed to do. Do you actually use them as a phone? Seriously, you need to stop your Android crap on this site. You are wasting people's time arguing about it because of YOUR hobby.

Don't get upset silly, I do those things because I like it, not because the system needs it or sucks, it's a hobby. Most people would be comfortable with the standard OS. Over at XDA, we get together to see how far we can push the envelope and create something that fits are individual personalities. My goal is to turn my phone into a desktop PC when docked, so I compile each program from source on a ARM development board to assure the best possible performance and compatibility, I design my own icons, desktop backgrounds, I almost do everything from the ground up. Yes, we are a very small portion of the community but when I'm done with my custom ROM's I upload them to XDA for everyone to enjoy and hack it for themselves. Those who wish to use custom ROMS only need to install a flash program, load the ROM and click go but it takes people like me to build such things. There are also purist who take Google's source code and compiles just what's needed to run on a phone. I like to take things to a different level of craziness, it's not needed though to make the system useable.

Don't get upset silly, I do those things because I like it, not because the system needs it or sucks, it's a hobby. Most people would be comfortable with the standard OS. Over at XDA, we get together to see how far we can push the envelope and create something that fits are individual personalities. My goal is to turn my phone into a desktop PC when docked, so I compile each program from source on a ARM development board to assure the best possible performance and compatibility, I design my own icons, desktop backgrounds, I almost do everything from the ground up. Yes, we are a very small portion of the community but when I'm done with my custom ROM's I upload them to XDA for everyone to enjoy and hack it for themselves. Those who wish to use custom ROMS only need to install a flash program, load the ROM and click go but it takes people like me to build such things. There are also purist who take Google's source code and compiles just what's needed to run on a phone. I like to take things to a different level of craziness, it's not needed though to make the system useable.

I've got a great idea for you. Why don't you setup and administer your own website where YOU have TOTAL control over who is on and what people can talk about. You can call it Relic"s hobby site. Seriously, you are trying to make YOUR hobby everyone else's hobby by talking about it. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR HOBBY. NO ONE HERE CARES ABOUT YOUR HOBBY OF ROOTING ANDROID PHONES, ETC. It's not why WE come here.

I've got a great idea for you. Why don't you setup and administer your own website where YOU have TOTAL control over who is on and what people can talk about. You can call it Relic"s hobby site. Seriously, you are trying to make YOUR hobby everyone else's hobby by talking about it. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR HOBBY. NO ONE HERE CARES ABOUT YOUR HOBBY OF ROOTING ANDROID PHONES, ETC. It's not why WE come here.

Drblank, I was answering your questions. I didn't just start babbling on about what I do with Android, you asked. I will stop answering your questions immediately because it is very obvious you're getting upset with me. I apologize for any of my transgressions that might have upset you. Have a great night and sleep well.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Drblank, I was answering your questions. I didn't just start babbling on about what I do with Android, you asked. I will stop answering your questions immediately because it is very obvious you're getting upset with me. I apologize for any of my transgressions that might have upset you. Have a great night and sleep well.

I don't believe I actually asked what you do with your Android phone. I just went through my previous posts and I didn't read anywhere I said the following "Relic, what do you do with your Android phone?" I think you THOUGHT I asked you, but I didn't.

I don't care about Android. AT ALL. It's a complete mess and people that buy into it have a mental problem as far as I'm concerned. I think Google has no clue what they are doing and it's OBVIOUS to me based on their distribution method. It's dumb, it's confusing and it's just Scroogling the customer.

I don't believe I actually asked what you do with your Android phone. I just went through my previous posts and I didn't read anywhere I said the following "Relic, what do you do with your Android phone?" I think you THOUGHT I asked you, but I didn't.

I don't care about Android. AT ALL. It's a complete mess and people that buy into it have a mental problem as far as I'm concerned. I think Google has no clue what they are doing and it's OBVIOUS to me based on their distribution method. It's dumb, it's confusing and it's just Scroogling the customer.

Okay fair enough, again I'm sorry if I upset you. On a side note, this thread is about Android, I only talk about Android in threads that are about Android. If Appleinsider didn't want us discussing Android they wouldn't post so many stories about Android. You seem to have a serious dislike of this OS so maybe you should avoid these threads, just a suggestion. Anyway, goodnight and if I don't talk with you this weekend have a great one, bye.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Do you know how the PWN2OWN contest works? Researchers spend months looking for exploits and test them extensively. Then when the contest starts they run their previously tested scenarios. Also researchers volunteer to hack the OS. Just because no one volunteered to test an OS doesn't mean it's more secure.

Then by that logic, every single exploit should have been successfully initiated within the first day of the contest, right?

RIGHT?

I mean, think about it. The first day......of every single Pwn2Own challenge.......for five years straight. Which devices fall first? APPLE'S devices. Why is that? Why not anyone else?

This article was about iOS and Android. Why are you bringing up old information about OS X?

You are talking about Lion? Lion is a two year old and Mavericks is about to get released. OS, Seriously, show me a list of all the malware attacks actually found for even OS X and compare it to the list of malware on Android or Windows.

Seriously, grow up, you idiot.

Ummmm, I'm prettttty sure I already did bring up iOS and Android, didn't I? (goes back and checks)........YEP. It's there.

And please, don't reference malware attacks on an OS that comprises 6.7% of the industry, as opposed to 92.27%. I'll just laugh at you.

You seem to have a difficult time staying on topic. Obviously, YOU haven't shown PROOF to back up Eric Schmidt's claim. You can't even show proof that OS X is less secure than Windows.

So Apple's head of security was promptly rush off stage. You obviously don't know the rules with large companies. They can't address something like this since it was a recent discovery so instead of conjuring up BS, they have to go back and understand the exploit and fix it, and they usually have to sit down with their attorneys to find out what they can and cannot say about it. Has the exploit been fixed.

Unforgivable security exploit?? Really? Who judges the level of forgivability? YOU? you are a nobody.

I've made no claims that Apple is 100% secure. It's impossible to do that, but it's far more secure than Android and WIndows. How? Look at the number of malware released to the public. Windows has had 100,000's since 2000, Android's exploits are growing like a log scale. Apple has had only a small handful and a lot of them were more related to Java, which isn't written by Apple, and Flash, which also isn't written by Apple.

Hardy har har.. Grow up and maybe you might learn something. At least Apple does fix their problems and the users that are effected get their OS updates in a timely manner. I seem to remember Google admitting not too long ago that they had a 2 1/2 year old exploit that still wasn't addressed. And how long does it take for Google and their OEMs to release updates where the customers can actually get the update? A LONG FREAKING TIME. Some never get the update. And how many Android phones have older than 4.2.2? About 92% of the Android market (1+ Billion devices) OUCH. And how many Android devices are running 4.3? LIke .1% of the Android install base. Seems like by the time you get your OS updated there are at least one or two later versions released. It's a piss poor platform when it comes to updating the OS. Worst way to distribute an OS.

At least Apple does fix their problems and the users that are "effected" get their OS updates in a timely manner?

Are you perhaps referring to the malware exploit that took Apple EIGHT MONTHS to patch? It wasn't a small blip on the radar, either. You could see the thing from orbit!

Why you're still going on about Android's security issues is beyond me. This has already been thoroughly debunked as NONSENSE. Go outside of the Google Play store, and you run risks. Stay within it, and you're fine. You might as well chastise car companies when their customers buy cheap aftermarket parts, and it ends up ruining the car. Same convoluted logic. Apple's poor history of atrociously awful security has been well-documented, my good man. You can pray to whatever God you want, from any realm you choose, be it reality, fantasy, or alternate dimension, and it will NOT change this simple, irrefutable, absolutely undeniable fact.

Okay fair enough, again I'm sorry if I upset you. On a side note, this thread is about Android, I only talk about Android in threads that are about Android. If Appleinsider didn't want us discussing Android they wouldn't post so many stories about Android. You seem to have a serious dislike of this OS so maybe you should avoid these threads, just a suggestion. Anyway, goodnight and if I don't talk with you this weekend have a great one, bye.

Don't apologize to drblank. He's just angry because iOS 7 now looks, acts, and functions EXACTLY like Android does. My wife and I were both shocked when she installed it on her 4S.

Well, I meant system-wide...in the wide sense. Moving a window, Cmd-Z puts it back. Change. Syspref? Yep, undo. Possibly even for closing an application...they'd need to test this as what works, what is logical or makes sense and not just do a Samsung on my lame idea lol.

But yes, Cmd-Z works in most, if not all programs and it's good to read that they're taking it to the next level in 10.9

Well, I meant system-wide...in the wide sense. Moving a window, Cmd-Z puts it back. Change. Syspref? Yep, undo. Possibly even for closing an application...they'd need to test this as what works, what is logical or makes sense and not just do a Samsung on my lame idea lol.

But yes, Cmd-Z works in most, if not all programs and it's good to read that they're taking it to the next level in 10.9

It's PWN2OWN. You win the device after you exploit it. a Mac is more desirable then whatever crap is out there.

Perhaps some researchers start early in developing an exploit. Maybe some other guys decide two weeks ahead.

Charlie Miller (a Mac Lover): "Hacking into Macs is SO much easier! You don't have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you'd find in Windows."

Doesn't really support your theory. Miller didn't go after Macs because they were more "desirable." He went after Macs because they were easier to break into. He's got some other great quotes as well, such as comparing Windows to a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town, and OSX to a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere with no locks.

Ooh, close one. I had to Command+Z to get the tab back and reply to this FUD.

I'm not seeing much in the way of a reply. Have you compared the two? My wife and I sat down the other day and compared her fresh install of iOS 7 on her 4S to my Galaxy S3 running the stock 'Droid ROM. The similarities were shocking, and even SHE was the first to say it before I opened my mouth. She prefers the iPhone, by the way. As a previous iPhone user myself, I noticed the similarities right away.

I'm not seeing much in the way of a reply. Have you compared the two? My wife and I sat down the other day and compared her fresh install of iOS 7 on her 4S to my Galaxy S3 running the stock 'Droid ROM. The similarities were shocking, and even SHE was the first to say it before I opened my mouth. She prefers the iPhone, by the way. As a previous iPhone user myself, I noticed the similarities right away.

WOW, aren't you just so hip and cool.

So why do you waste so much of your time here if you don't use Apple products? Are you just being a troll?

Charlie Miller (a Mac Lover): "Hacking into Macs is SO much easier! You don't have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you'd find in Windows."

Doesn't really support your theory. Miller didn't go after Macs because they were more "desirable." He went after Macs because they were easier to break into. He's got some other great quotes as well, such as comparing Windows to a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town, and OSX to a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere with no locks.

Charlie Miller (a Mac Lover): "Hacking into Macs is SO much easier! You don't have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you'd find in Windows."

Doesn't really support your theory. Miller didn't go after Macs because they were more "desirable." He went after Macs because they were easier to break into. He's got some other great quotes as well, such as comparing Windows to a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town, and OSX to a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere with no locks.

You must be reading a REALLY old interview. He doesn't say what you mentioned anymore. He might have said that 4+ years ago, but in terms of the number of malware released to the market? That's an easy one. Windows has FAR more malware than OS X. PERIOD.

Charlie Miller (a Mac Lover): "Hacking into Macs is SO much easier! You don't have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you'd find in Windows."

Doesn't really support your theory. Miller didn't go after Macs because they were more "desirable." He went after Macs because they were easier to break into. He's got some other great quotes as well, such as comparing Windows to a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town, and OSX to a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere with no locks.

Hacking INTO and getting a virus are two different things. Now, how many viruses were there for Windows? Hundreds of thousands, there were only a couple for OS X. Now, being able to write a trojan horse?

Be careful when you say MALWARE. Viruses are a TYPE of malware, but OS X never really had any issue about viruses, like Windows.

What Charlie was doing was different than writing viruses. But as time went on, his hacks became tougher to write and setup. He didn't go to those Pawn contests and write a hack in 5 minutes. HIs hacks too months ahead of time to set up. But this was a LONG time ago.

The types of malware that MOST of us are concerned about are VIRUSES since on Windows, you could get them without doing anything other than just connecting your computer to the internet. There have been people that have proved that one. But viruses never hit Macs, they might get them and pass them on to a Windows computer, but Viruses didn't really affect OS X, but trojan horses or other forms of Malware, but again, the number of malware released to the open for OS X and iOS are so little, the likelihood isn't as big as it's been for Windows and now Android.

Again, I've never said OS X or iOS was 100% secure. But IDIOTS like yourself seem to misread things and take something and changed it into something else.

I look at what's been released to the open as an indication as to which is more or less secure.

You must be reading a REALLY old interview. He doesn't say what you mentioned anymore. He might have said that 4+ years ago, but in terms of the number of malware released to the market? That's an easy one. Windows has FAR more malware than OS X. PERIOD.

He wasn't talking about malware but the security hole's in OSX. It is still that way with the 2013 models so there is no reason for Charlie Miller to change his mind, I personally can access most OSX computers in less than two minutes, it's very simple to do. However, once you close up the holes OSX also becomes very secured, like any other Unix OS.

Edited by Relic - 10/15/13 at 2:02pm

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

He wasn't talking about malware but the security hole's in OSX. It is still that way with the 2013 models so there is no reason for Charlie Miller to change his mind, I personally can access most OSX computers in less than two minutes, it's very simple to do. However, once you close up the holes OSX also becomes very secured, like any other Unix OS.

And do you get access to OS X computers over the internet or in person? So you could get into my computer from where you are sitting? You do this all of the time?

And do you get access to OS X computers over the internet or in person? So you could get into my computer from where you are sitting? You do this all of the time?

Sitting in front of the machine is the easiest of course as OSX doesn't set the root password, here is a post I did to help someone log into their computer, that's the less than two minutes. Over the internet takes more time, depends on the router the person has what programs are running that access the internet, so on and so on, it takes a while but with the many cracker tools available it's not entirely difficult to do and OSX is easier than Windows in this regard. That's why OSX is always one of the first machines to be hacked during these competitions, than Windows, with Linux being on the top as the most difficult. Now, there a lot of ways you can make OSX a lot more secure but people normally don't do anything outside of what Apple does for them.

....and no, this is something I do not do nor condone..

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Oh, you should run this, "lsof -i -P | grep -i "listen" to see what ports you have running.

This is a Linux distribution called Backtrack used for security penetration testing but includes all of the necessary programs needed to remotely hack a computer. There are a lot of tutorials in the distro as well, educate yourself. Just use a virtual machine to run it.

Edited by Relic - 10/15/13 at 2:40pm

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.

Sitting in front of the machine is the easiest of course as OSX doesn't set the root password, here is a post I did to help someone log into their computer, that's the less than two minutes. Over the internet takes more time, depends on the router the person has what programs are running that access the internet, so on and so on, it takes a while but with the many cracker tools available it's not entirely difficult to do and OSX is easier than Windows in this regard. That's why OSX is always one of the first machines to be hacked during these competitions, than Windows, with Linux being on the top as the most difficult. Now, there a lot of ways you can make OSX a lot more secure but people normally don't do anything outside of what Apple does for them.

....and no, this is something I do not do nor condone..

Well, sitting in front of the computer, sure, I'm sure Microsoft helps people get into their systems when they forget their login screen password all of the time. Macs never really got viruses. Viruses are really for Windows. When people talk about security, it encompasses a lot more than just hacking one's password.

I've never had a virus destroy my hard drive on an Apple product, but I've had that happen with a Windows computer that was given to me to use by a company I used to work for. Just about everyone in the company was getting virus attacks or trojan horses or whatever it was that was taking out hard drives. To me, that's a SECURITY problem, isn't it?

Well, sitting in front of the computer, sure, I'm sure Microsoft helps people get into their systems when they forget their login screen password all of the time. Macs never really got viruses. Viruses are really for Windows. When people talk about security, it encompasses a lot more than just hacking ones password.

I've never had a virus destroy my hard drive on an Apple product, but I've had that happen with a Windows computer that was given to me to use by a company I used to work for. Just about everyone in the company was getting virus attacks or trojan horses or whatever it was that was taking out hard drives. To me, that's a SECURITY problem, isn't it?

Yes, absolutely, I was just replying that Charlie Miller wasn't talking about malware. Apple virus's and malware are increasing as well, in fact the more popular OSX get's we will start to see a paradigm shift of hackers/crackers and virus/malware writers focusing more of their attention on Apple. Here's a short but interesting article in Forbes about it. Maybe Apple will go all-in with iOS before it becomes to severe though, who knows.

People just need to follow good security practices, the biggest two are; don't open emails from people you don't know and don't download apps that haven't been reviewed or from individuals, stay with the mainstream stuff.

Edited by Relic - 10/15/13 at 3:00pm

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.