Keep in mind that being homeless (and thus without a bathroom) cannot be criminalized. And as a result, things people do as a result of being homeless can't be criminalized either. Even if a homeless person DOES commit a crime, do you think that the criminal justice system is free? That jail space should be taken up for criminal pissing? It's just a wee bit more complex than you seem to realize.

Smoking crack and prostitution in a public place? Vandalism? Public nuisance? Loitering?

Good lord I'm arguing with a deaf, female, attorney! Sarnali! Help!

sarnali2

07-17-2008 10:52 AM

This is all part of a lot bigger problem that Seattle foisted on itself. First and formost is "mainstreaming" the mentally ill. Lock the looney bastards up in work camps, dry them out and let them plant vegatable gardens to earn their keep. The vast majority of the "outdoorsman" in Seattle and Tacoma have serious mental issues coupled with alchoholism and drug addiction, look at the success Tacoma is having with the hi-voltage Malt Liquer and fortified wine restrictions. That alone has dropped the crime rate by a good percentage. The root problem is Seattle would rather deal with these cretens relieving themselves whereever and whenever they happen to be than actually taking the nesseccarsy steps to get them off the streets.

At the very least they should install a few dozen honeybuckets around Pioneer Square and Pike Place Market, the best solution would be to round them all up and ship them to Mexico. They've been flooding our country for years, lets return the favor.

Buzglyd

07-17-2008 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2
(Post 189344)

This is all part of a lot bigger problem that Seattle foisted on itself. First and formost is "mainstreaming" the mentally ill. Lock the looney bastards up in work camps, dry them out and let them plant vegatable gardens to earn their keep. The vast majority of the "outdoorsman" in Seattle and Tacoma have serious mental issues coupled with alchoholism and drug addiction, look at the success Tacoma is having with the hi-voltage Malt Liquer and fortified wine restrictions. That alone has dropped the crime rate by a good percentage. The root problem is Seattle would rather deal with these cretens relieving themselves whereever and whenever they happen to be than actually taking the nesseccarsy steps to get them off the streets.

At the very least they should install a few dozen honeybuckets around Pioneer Square and Pike Place Market, the best solution would be to round them all up and ship them to Mexico. They've been flooding our country for years, lets return the favor.

You're just not "compassionate." If Seattle had spent 2 million per toilet instead of a measly 1 million, none of this would have happened!

sachiwilson

07-17-2008 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd
(Post 189343)

Smoking crack and prostitution in a public place? Vandalism? Public nuisance? Loitering?

Yes, many of those are crimes. But not all homeless people commit crimes. Why do you think they do?

Let's not forget that people with homes also commit all those crimes, and far more frequently than the homeless. Do you really want to put everyone who commits these crimes in jail? (Which YOU will have to pay for.) Or in rehab? (Which YOU will have to pay for.) the United States already has the highest rate of incarceration in the WORLD. It's a huge money pit, one of the worst our society has, and you want to spend even more on it?

Like I said, you guys just like to whine.

12er

07-17-2008 11:05 AM

Bah! Come to SF, makes Seattle look and smell sterile.

sachiwilson

07-17-2008 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarnali2
(Post 189344)

This is all part of a lot bigger problem that Seattle foisted on itself. First and formost is "mainstreaming" the mentally ill.

To the contrary, "mainstreaming" is not a Seattle-specific issue. It was a decision by the State to quit funding facilities for the mentally ill. As a result, those ill people are out on the streets. They are handled (if at all) through the justice systems and the publicly funded hospitals, which in fact is a far more expensive proposition than funding mental hospitals. If you want to challenge a short-sighted, expensive decision, that's a good one to look at.

Quote:

Lock the looney bastards up in work camps, dry them out and let them plant vegatable gardens to earn their keep.

If they are looney bastards how do you propose they can perform in a work camp? And you seem to conflate alcohol and drug abuse with mental illness - they are two separate problems, although I'm sure many of the mentally ill abuse substances.

Quote:

the best solution would be to round them all up and ship them to Mexico. They've been flooding our country for years, lets return the favor.

Right, right. Even assuming all of these mentally ill drug abuser homeless people are all illegal immigrants (which is far from the case), how do you propose to "round them all up and ship them to Mexico"? The feds have been trying to do this for decades and can't. Do you want to pay for even more extensive efforts?

Bunch of whiners.

seruzawa

07-17-2008 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzglyd
(Post 189337)

Well when people commit crimes they lose their liberties. Jail or rehab?

Look at the mess CA is in. One of the highest tax states in the country is billions in the red and the solutions coming out of Sacramento are to raise taxes.

Get it Buz? Concern about multi-millions in corruption and waste is "whining".

I'll bet you could build 5 public bathrooms and post 5 guards 24 hours per day for a lot less than $5 million.

mscuddy

07-17-2008 11:37 AM

My work computer died and now I'm forced to a machine with a monitor the size of a postage stamp. Wahhhh. The smell of feces and urine? Why, that's the smell of victory!

sarnali2

07-17-2008 12:21 PM

come on now.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachiwilson
(Post 189350)

If they are looney bastards how do you propose they can perform in a work camp? And you seem to conflate alcohol and drug abuse with mental illness - they are two separate problems, although I'm sure many of the mentally ill abuse substances.

Right, right. Even assuming all of these mentally ill drug abuser homeless people are all illegal immigrants (which is far from the case), how do you propose to "round them all up and ship them to Mexico"? The feds have been trying to do this for decades and can't. Do you want to pay for even more extensive efforts?

Bunch of whiners.

...From my own experiance and plenty of studies and reports by the Times and News Tribune the overwhelming majority of street people have mental and substance abuse issues. The one's that don't are usually in a shelter useing the facilities set up for them. As you well know there are some seriously f'd up people downtown from stumbling around like ghosts to arguing with the potted plants on 3th Ave.

Try to spend some time looking at the water at Myrtle Edwards park with your family..what fun to clean some wino's sh*t off your kids shoes...I'm sorry Sachi but they are a problem that's gotten worse and worse, remember the King County Deputy that got ran through with a sword at the Mariners game a few years ago? hell' of a way to cap off a day with the grandkids huh? The root cause of all this is as you agreed, mainstreaming these people.

There was an article in the News Tribune about the cost of dealing with these people, picking them up, drying them out, letting them go again only to have them incoherent and pissing their pants two hours later. Who said anything about illegal's? send them all down there to Mexico or east texas for all I care. Drying them out and putting them to work would be a mercy, even to most wetbrained could be shown how to pull weeds.

Seattle wants to put itself of as a jewel in the Northwest..howmany tourists are going to come back after being hauranged and acosted by these vermin everytime they step out to of their hotels?

sachiwilson

07-17-2008 12:43 PM

I don't disagree that mentally ill people and substance abusers are a problem.

What I reject is that there can be a simplistic or inexpensive solution to the issue. If you want to solve it, you're not going to fix it (certainly not without spending a ton of money) by locking them up, or by forcing them to sober up and plant gardens, or by deporting Mexicans.

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