Take this ATL/SEA. game. Atlanta with 4:00 left is doing the typical run, run 3rd down pass sequence all teams do. At what point (And I'm not even sure - I'll leave that up to the numbers types) does the risk of stopping the clock fall behind the increased risk of giving it back.

I think at this point I'd rather run my regular offense - unless I was like the Browns or Jets, take my chances...and if I give the ball back with a little more time so be it - but at least MY team made that call and effort.

And Pete Carroll is coach of the year.

By far.

Cause in 2/3 of these organizations, they wouldn't even hear of playing a draft pick over a prized free agent that the club brought in at a high price.

I think Seattle is the best team in the league...just an awful tough raod with all that travel, and on the road. Man, but if they get home field in coming years....

Yeah at some point the remaining clock management and obtaining the lead need to become a more clear cut focus. Especially when you KNOW you are using 4 downs. Obviously it it more difficult when you need a TD to take the lead, but still you cannot leave teams enough time to for the opponent to gain 30+ yards anymore to take a desperation kick or throw anymore.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Yeah at some point the remaining clock management and obtaining the lead need to become a more clear cut focus. Especially when you KNOW you are using 4 downs. Obviously it it more difficult when you need a TD to take the lead, but still you cannot leave teams enough time to for the opponent to gain 30+ yards anymore to take a desperation kick or throw anymore.

Was the mantra/staple of the Kardiac Kids with Sipe. He always said if he had 4 downs to make 10 yards it allowed him to thrive.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

OldDawg wrote:I am sick of Ray Lewis hamming up, over-dramatizing and writing his own farewell song. I don't mean how he's playing. Its everything else. Playing it all up. The ultimate punk of a human being. He is begging us to adore and idolize him. On the ground, crying after the game. Give me a break.

I just watched the on field post game interview with Lewis, talk about wanting to puke.

He over dramatizes everything. The fact that man even speaks the name of God in the context he does is a disgrace.

Bunch of pussies in the media that bow to that clown.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

OldDawg wrote:I am sick of Ray Lewis hamming up, over-dramatizing and writing his own farewell song. I don't mean how he's playing. Its everything else. Playing it all up. The ultimate punk of a human being. He is begging us to adore and idolize him. On the ground, crying after the game. Give me a break.

I just watched the on field post game interview with Lewis, talk about wanting to puke.

He over dramatizes everything. The fact that man even speaks the name of God in the context he does is a disgrace.

Bunch of pussies in the media that bow to that clown.

Just wait until they beat the Pats next week and end up in the Super Bowl

OldDawg wrote:I am sick of Ray Lewis hamming up, over-dramatizing and writing his own farewell song. I don't mean how he's playing. Its everything else. Playing it all up. The ultimate punk of a human being. He is begging us to adore and idolize him. On the ground, crying after the game. Give me a break.

I just watched the on field post game interview with Lewis, talk about wanting to puke.

He over dramatizes everything. The fact that man even speaks the name of God in the context he does is a disgrace.

Bunch of pussies in the media that bow to that clown.

ESPN having a few analysts and anchors go on about how "inspiring" he is this post season.

In what regard? This isn't like the guy is say, Jesse Owens in the 1930's who pretty much fundamentally changed sports as we know it, or a Chuck Pagano who came back to the sidelines after dealing with Leukemia

No, this is Ray Lewis, the same obnoxious middle linebacker that we all know and loathe here in Cleveland, who literally got away with murder, and then hides behind God in order to try to make us all forget about what happened that night in 2000.

It comes off as arrogant as well to insist that God had a hand in having his football team win. This isn't like the man was healed of some life threatening disease, survived a war or was struggling to find food to feed his family, and himself. No, it was a FOOTBALL GAME. Mind you, one that he's paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to play. THAT, is something you should be thanking God about Ray. Not winning a dumbass football game, the mere fact that you have a warm place to sleep at night, get to play a game you love, and oh yeah, literally get a 2nd chance after being involved in a MURDER.

He's just not a sympathetic figure to me.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

OldDawg wrote:I am sick of Ray Lewis hamming up, over-dramatizing and writing his own farewell song. I don't mean how he's playing. Its everything else. Playing it all up. The ultimate punk of a human being. He is begging us to adore and idolize him. On the ground, crying after the game. Give me a break.

I just watched the on field post game interview with Lewis, talk about wanting to puke.

He over dramatizes everything. The fact that man even speaks the name of God in the context he does is a disgrace.

Bunch of pussies in the media that bow to that clown.

ESPN having a few analysts and anchors go on about how "inspiring" he is this post season.

In what regard? This isn't like the guy is say, Jesse Owens in the 1930's who pretty much fundamentally changed sports as we know it, or a Chuck Pagano who came back to the sidelines after dealing with Leukemia

No, this is Ray Lewis, the same obnoxious middle linebacker that we all know and loathe here in Cleveland, who literally got away with murder, and then hides behind God in order to try to make us all forget about what happened that night in 2000.

It comes off as arrogant as well to insist that God had a hand in having his football team win. This isn't like the man was healed of some life threatening disease, survived a war or was struggling to find food to feed his family, and himself. No, it was a FOOTBALL GAME. Mind you, one that he's paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to play. THAT, is something you should be thanking God about Ray. Not winning a dumbass football game, the mere fact that you have a warm place to sleep at night, get to play a game you love, and oh yeah, literally get a 2nd chance after being involved in a MURDER.

He's just not a sympathetic figure to me.

The fact that he is almost 40 and still making an impact is the main reason. The media likes to play up the religion thing, but in the locker room that does not matter. He has lost a few steps over the year, but he is the leader on and off the field. Very inspirational to find someone redeem himself after putting himself in a bad situation in his youth.

I stopped watching all ESPN programming except for games about a year ago, and it has improved my quality of life and my enjoyment of watching sports. Those stupid points that they belittle all week long - like Ray Ray's inspirational story, Tebow, Linsanity, etc. - I only here mentions of during the game now. I honestly wouldn't have known about the over dramatic Ray Ray God speech if it weren't for this board.

neoleo wrote:I stopped watching all ESPN programming except for games about a year ago, and it has improved my quality of life and my enjoyment of watching sports. Those stupid points that they belittle all week long - like Ray Ray's inspirational story, Tebow, Linsanity, etc. - I only here mentions of during the game now. I honestly wouldn't have known about the over dramatic Ray Ray God speech if it weren't for this board.

Me too. Ever since ESPN began "sponsoring" LeBron James and Tim Tebow, it has become unwatchable. I don't remember the last time I watched something on one of their stations that wasn't an actual sporting event. I listen to Mike & Mike on the radio on my drive to work sometimes, but change it instantly if it is one of the ESPN dead horse topics.

I wish there were a viable threat to their monopoly to force them to improve the quality of their programming, but maybe I just need to stop with the Big Sports Media altogether.

<--------- thankful for NBA, MLB, NFL networks so he doesn't have to suffer through as much fluff if I only had ESPN as the go to

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

FUDU wrote:I just watched the on field post game interview with Lewis, talk about wanting to puke.He over dramatizes everything. The fact that man even speaks the name of God in the context he does is a disgrace.

It comes off as arrogant as well to insist that God had a hand in having his football team win. This isn't like the man was healed of some life threatening disease, survived a war or was struggling to find food to feed his family, and himself. No, it was a FOOTBALL GAME. Mind you, one that he's paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to play. THAT, is something you should be thanking God about Ray. Not winning a dumbass football game, the mere fact that you have a warm place to sleep at night, get to play a game you love, and oh yeah, literally get a 2nd chance after being involved in a MURDER.

Don't be ridiculous. I can't recall a sporting event that someone DIDN'T thank God. I hate Ray as much as the next guy, but to get all high and mighty about his usage of God is just grasping at straws. There's enough to hate there without inventing issues.

Larvell Blanks wrote:<--------- thankful for NBA, MLB, NFL networks so he doesn't have to suffer through as much fluff if I only had ESPN as the go to

Agree. All 3 of those networks covers their respective sport MUCH better than ESPN ever thought, and with much less starfucking.

Ask the average ESPN exec how many teams play in MLB and they'd probably guess "Yankees... Red Sox... Cubs... Dodgers... uh... the team that Steven Strasberg plays for... uh... I think Miami has a team now... Carolina... and the Chiefs."

Hikohadon wrote:I wish there were a viable threat to their monopoly to force them to improve the quality of their programming, but maybe I just need to stop with the Big Sports Media altogether.

This has been the hardest part for me without ESPN. I always just turned it to sportscenter as soon as I turned on the TV. Now I have nowhere to go. I've tried finding another show where I can just catch some quick highlights and the scores, but nothing. CBS Sports, NBC Sports, Fox Sports, they all suck. Most of them have infomercials on when I'm up early in the morning, and the ones that actually have sports shows are just cheap sportscenter knockoffs.

I love MLB and NBA networks, and to a lesser extent NFL (not a fan of Irving or Mariucci), but those networks are good just for their respective sports. I'm still missing out on the highlights/scores for the other sports. I watch a lot of BTN now, which is fine because I'm a fan, but their guys pretty much suck, and of course I'm still missing out on everything else I need from the other sports/pro.

There's definitely an opportunity out there for an ESPN competitor to steal a piece of the market, but unfortunately that ESPN talking head crap sells. So you either get the real crappy thing or the knockoff crappy thing. And nobody is willing to take a shot on just a bare-bones highlight/score show like sportscenter used to be. Too bad cause I know a lot of people who'd watch.

Hikohadon wrote:I wish Wes Welker could catch. Nice drop on 3rd down there to allow the Raisins to hang around.

People forget that his lasting championship legacy is dropping the ball that would've sealed the game in last year's SB.

Actually I wish he drops the rest of them today :) and as soon as he dropped it it reminded me of last year's drop which coincidentally won me some cash on the G-Men. Let's hope history repeats itself.

Whomever has the ball last will win this one. Great game and chess match between two of the brightest minds in NFL today.

Clearly Tom Brady is suffering from diminished skills and should be cut immediately. There is no excuse for that kind of play on a Bill Belichick team.

On a more serious note, the years of consistently trading down out of the first round now are catching up with Belichick. You can't keep a quality team year-after-year on the blind arrogance you can develop every third-, fourth- and fifth-round pick you pick up on concession, look at the Browns.

justmebd wrote:Clearly Tom Brady is suffering from diminished skills and should be cut immediately. There is no excuse for that kind of play on a Bill Belichick team.

On a more serious note, the years of consistently trading down out of the first round now are catching up with Belichick. You can't keep a quality team year-after-year on the blind arrogance you can develop every third-, fourth- and fifth-round pick you pick up on concession, look at the Browns.

Dude, they've kept a quality team for a dozen years. The guys been to the Bowl damn near half his years there, with other times losing in the round he lost today. A dropped pass and a helmet catch away from being the best ever.

They probably should keep doing just what they are doing.

Remember about 6 years ago when they traded Seymour to the Raiders to start their "rebuild."

Guys, a mediocre QB is going to win a Superbowl. That is very good for the NFL. Flacco will likely never be in the same class as Brady, Mannings, etc., and I don't care how good Caeppernick will be in a few years, he's mediocre this year. One way or another, a non-elite QB will take home the title this year, and that's really interesting.

bac5665 wrote:Guys, a mediocre QB is going to win a Superbowl. That is very good for the NFL. Flacco will likely never be in the same class as Brady, Mannings, etc., and I don't care how good Caeppernick will be in a few years, he's mediocre this year. One way or another, a non-elite QB will take home the title this year, and that's really interesting.

Kaepernick was fantastic both games.

If he was mediocre in the playoffs, they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl.

Flacco has made every GD throw in the playoffs.

If he was mediocre in the playoffs, they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl.

This is exactly the same as every year. It's either A. A great QB. or B. The Eli Mannings or Mark Rypiens of the world that might not be at that level, but play at that level for that stretch.

When a mediocre to poor QB plays mediocre to poor, and the team still gets to the Bowl, well, than you've got yourself a story.

And the guy who plays better in two weeks will be on the winning team, no matter what the hell else goes on out there.

Is it terrible to say it's still a tough pill to swallow to see the former Browns make it to the Super Bowl?

I realize that "getting over it" would be in order, but I'd find that quite a bit easier if the franchise that currently resides on 76 Lou Groza blvd wasn't a complete and utter embarrassment that would seem like it would struggle playing the Edmonton Eskimos.

And I know I was just 6 years old when the move happened, and to me that really shouldn't factor into my hatred of the franchise. But, I still can't stand them.

It sucks that potentially we could be seeing the induction of a man that did something godawful and unthinkable as an NFL. I realize as a fan I should get over it.

But, to me, a major part of Cleveland died that day. My dad for example, was forever jaded about the NFL, as are several fathers of kids my age actually. That's what that franchise to me represents.

Having a winning football team itself would definitly made that pill easier to swallow. Perhaps that's it?

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

justmebd wrote:Clearly Tom Brady is suffering from diminished skills and should be cut immediately. There is no excuse for that kind of play on a Bill Belichick team.

On a more serious note, the years of consistently trading down out of the first round now are catching up with Belichick. You can't keep a quality team year-after-year on the blind arrogance you can develop every third-, fourth- and fifth-round pick you pick up on concession, look at the Browns.

Dude, they've kept a quality team for a dozen years. The guys been to the Bowl damn near half his years there, with other times losing in the round he lost today. A dropped pass and a helmet catch away from being the best ever.

They probably should keep doing just what they are doing.

Remember about 6 years ago when they traded Seymour to the Raiders to start their "rebuild."

Agreed, the Patriots have kept a quality team, but I'm not the only who thinks it's strange they haven't won another Super Bowl in the last eight or nine years.

The lack of depth on their defense was crystal clear last night, and Brady was plagued by a lot of drops in the first quarter. I'm not directly comparing the Patriots to the Browns, but the correlation of not properly utilizing your top-round draft picks is a valid criticism.

To , Mangini did the ol' multiple trade down, and it's pretty much agreed the 2009 draft set the team back another two years. Think how much better this defense would be had he drafted Clay Matthews instead of trading down a bunch of time for low-round draft picks who no longer are on this team and instead took Alex Mack with the first pick, who still would have been on the board in the 2nd round because no one else was drafting a center that year that high in the draft.

And before anyone tries to debate my Alex Mack theory, I have a 2,000-word rebuttal somewhere on the Internet.

justmebd wrote:Clearly Tom Brady is suffering from diminished skills and should be cut immediately. There is no excuse for that kind of play on a Bill Belichick team.

On a more serious note, the years of consistently trading down out of the first round now are catching up with Belichick. You can't keep a quality team year-after-year on the blind arrogance you can develop every third-, fourth- and fifth-round pick you pick up on concession, look at the Browns.

Dude, they've kept a quality team for a dozen years. The guys been to the Bowl damn near half his years there, with other times losing in the round he lost today. A dropped pass and a helmet catch away from being the best ever.

They probably should keep doing just what they are doing.

Remember about 6 years ago when they traded Seymour to the Raiders to start their "rebuild."

Agreed, the Patriots have kept a quality team, but I'm not the only who thinks it's strange they haven't won another Super Bowl in the last eight or nine years.

The lack of depth on their defense was crystal clear last night, and Brady was plagued by a lot of drops in the first quarter. I'm not directly comparing the Patriots to the Browns, but the correlation of not properly utilizing your top-round draft picks is a valid criticism.

To , Mangini did the ol' multiple trade down, and it's pretty much agreed the 2009 draft set the team back another two years. Think how much better this defense would be had he drafted Clay Matthews instead of trading down a bunch of time for low-round draft picks who no longer are on this team and instead took Alex Mack with the first pick, who still would have been on the board in the 2nd round because no one else was drafting a center that year that high in the draft.

And before anyone tries to debate my Alex Mack theory, I have a 2,000-word rebuttal somewhere on the Internet.

This is beyond silly.

The Patriots are in need of specifics.

The Browns, especially then, were in need of everything.

If there was a player available the Pats thought key, I'd assume they take him in lieu of dealing the pick. If they feel there is more value in the selections, that's what they do.

See my comments in the Lombardi thread. Belichik figured this out years ago - that is, it ain't close to an exact science. Belichik has whiffed bad in the draft. Him fleecing others has allowed him to whiff more often.

And the Patriots not winning it all in recent years is the same as those shouting "He's done nothing since spy gate!!!!! (Besides go 17-1 the next year)

Again, in a single elimination playoffs, to finish with the run they've had.....let me know the next team that does this.

justmebd wrote:Clearly Tom Brady is suffering from diminished skills and should be cut immediately. There is no excuse for that kind of play on a Bill Belichick team.

On a more serious note, the years of consistently trading down out of the first round now are catching up with Belichick. You can't keep a quality team year-after-year on the blind arrogance you can develop every third-, fourth- and fifth-round pick you pick up on concession, look at the Browns.

Dude, they've kept a quality team for a dozen years. The guys been to the Bowl damn near half his years there, with other times losing in the round he lost today. A dropped pass and a helmet catch away from being the best ever.

They probably should keep doing just what they are doing.

Remember about 6 years ago when they traded Seymour to the Raiders to start their "rebuild."

Agreed, the Patriots have kept a quality team, but I'm not the only who thinks it's strange they haven't won another Super Bowl in the last eight or nine years.

The lack of depth on their defense was crystal clear last night, and Brady was plagued by a lot of drops in the first quarter. I'm not directly comparing the Patriots to the Browns, but the correlation of not properly utilizing your top-round draft picks is a valid criticism.

To , Mangini did the ol' multiple trade down, and it's pretty much agreed the 2009 draft set the team back another two years. Think how much better this defense would be had he drafted Clay Matthews instead of trading down a bunch of time for low-round draft picks who no longer are on this team and instead took Alex Mack with the first pick, who still would have been on the board in the 2nd round because no one else was drafting a center that year that high in the draft.

And before anyone tries to debate my Alex Mack theory, I have a 2,000-word rebuttal somewhere on the Internet.

This is beyond silly.

The Patriots are in need of specifics.

The Browns, especially then, were in need of everything.

If there was a player available the Pats thought key, I'd assume they take him in lieu of dealing the pick. If they feel there is more value in the selections, that's what they do.

See my comments in the Lombardi thread. Belichik figured this out years ago - that is, it ain't close to an exact science. Belichik has whiffed bad in the draft. Him fleecing others has allowed him to whiff more often.

And the Patriots not winning it all in recent years is the same as those shouting "He's done nothing since spy gate!!!!! (Besides go 17-1 the next year)

Again, in a single elimination playoffs, to finish with the run they've had.....let me know the next team that does this.

In a league that practically mandates no dynasties, by the way.

And Clay Matthews is playing the result.

You're right, this is beyond silly because while I don't disagree with anything you say, I have no idea WTF you're talking about in relation to my comment. You're having a completely different conversation. *Shrug* Not that big a deal.

Just re-read the whole thing, and now I think I see where we're diverging.

You cite the Patriots 17-1 record and their consistent playoff appearances, but note they don't consistently win the big sausage.

I think what a lot of people are forgetting when overdoing it on the Belichick praise is the AFC East.

How many division titles has Belichick won because the AFC East has consistently sucked for about a decade? The Undefeated regular season aside, I don't believe the Patriots record outside of their division hasn't been statistically anomolous. I'd have to go back and check the records year-by-year to be sure, but there it is.

Their record in the playoffs since Spygate is common knowledge.

Belichick is a great coach, no argument. But you can only coach up so many guys to a certain point before you realize 90 percent of the fifth-round draft picks taken are fifth-round draft picks for a reason.

And yes, the Browns did need every position, but passing up Clay Matthews -- TWICE -- was just fucking stupid. This is not a debatable point to me.

justmebd wrote:Just re-read the whole thing, and now I think I see where we're diverging.

You cite the Patriots 17-1 record and their consistent playoff appearances, but note they don't consistently win the big sausage.

I think what a lot of people are forgetting when overdoing it on the Belichick praise is the AFC East.

How many division titles has Belichick won because the AFC East has consistently sucked for about a decade? The Undefeated regular season aside, I don't believe the Patriots record outside of their division hasn't been statistically anomolous. I'd have to go back and check the records year-by-year to be sure, but there it is.

Their record in the playoffs since Spygate is common knowledge.

Belichick is a great coach, no argument. But you can only coach up so many guys to a certain point before you realize 90 percent of the fifth-round draft picks taken are fifth-round draft picks for a reason.

And yes, the Browns did need every position, but passing up Clay Matthews -- TWICE -- was just fucking stupid. This is not a debatable point to me.

Ca-Rist.

They run a team out there capable of winning the Super Bowl every damn year.

Again, ring me when you see another.

You can question the process all you like but, again, THEY RUN A TEAM OUT THERE THAT CAN WIN A SUPERBOWL EVERY YEAR.

Are you insinuating Belichik would rather have a group of 4th round rummies than legitimate stars. Cause if you are, shake yourself and read the sentence again.

And again, their record since spygate and "winning the sausage." So, for example, we'll give them credit for a Super Bowl win on the backs of the tuck rule and some best kicking ever - yet when they are victim to about 25 balls thrown up for grabs - including the biggest one sticking to a helmet, well, then they are "losers."

And yeah, 14....15....16 wins will prety much win you any division.

Really, now the Pats are winning cause of an easy division....

What's next?

Lastly, not debating the clay Mathews thing now. Just that as many people were going apeshit they passed on Mark Sanchez - if not more. So again, as I stated, and the only thing I stated concerning the matter is....playing the result.

Any other NFL team or fan ripping on how the Pats approach things....you've got 31 better targets.

Hope they get an easy schedule draw next year or they're F'd.

Either that or they'll hang 13 or 14 no matter who's hurt or what the hell else goes on.

justmebd wrote:Just re-read the whole thing, and now I think I see where we're diverging.

You cite the Patriots 17-1 record and their consistent playoff appearances, but note they don't consistently win the big sausage.

I think what a lot of people are forgetting when overdoing it on the Belichick praise is the AFC East.

How many division titles has Belichick won because the AFC East has consistently sucked for about a decade? The Undefeated regular season aside, I don't believe the Patriots record outside of their division hasn't been statistically anomolous. I'd have to go back and check the records year-by-year to be sure, but there it is.

Their record in the playoffs since Spygate is common knowledge.

Belichick is a great coach, no argument. But you can only coach up so many guys to a certain point before you realize 90 percent of the fifth-round draft picks taken are fifth-round draft picks for a reason.

And yes, the Browns did need every position, but passing up Clay Matthews -- TWICE -- was just fucking stupid. This is not a debatable point to me.

Ca-Rist.

They run a team out there capable of winning the Super Bowl every damn year.

Again, ring me when you see another.

You can question the process all you like but, again, THEY RUN A TEAM OUT THERE THAT CAN WIN A SUPERBOWL EVERY YEAR.

Are you insinuating Belichik would rather have a group of 4th round rummies than legitimate stars. Cause if you are, shake yourself and read the sentence again.

And again, their record since spygate and "winning the sausage." So, for example, we'll give them credit for a Super Bowl win on the backs of the tuck rule and some best kicking ever - yet when they are victim to about 25 balls thrown up for grabs - including the biggest one sticking to a helmet, well, then they are "losers."

And yeah, 14....15....16 wins will prety much win you any division.

Really, now the Pats are winning cause of an easy division....

What's next?

Lastly, not debating the clay Mathews thing now. Just that as many people were going apeshit they passed on Mark Sanchez - if not more. So again, as I stated, and the only thing I stated concerning the matter is....playing the result.

Any other NFL team or fan ripping on how the Pats approach things....you've got 31 better targets.

Hope they get an easy schedule draw next year or they're F'd.

Either that or they'll hang 13 or 14 no matter who's hurt or what the hell else goes on.

You're getting way too worked up over this. :)The Pats do put a team on the field capable of winning the SB every year. They also beat the teams they're supposed to beat during the regular season.

The problem is once they hit the playoffs in recent years, all their problems get exposed, and their approach to fixing those problems is something Pats fans should be getting upset about and are getting upset about.

You're filtering this through the lens of a Browns fan and . . YES, I'd LOVE to have the Patriots problems, doesn't mean you can't criticize them.

If you think the Pats would be where they are today playing in the NFC North, then I want to know what YOU are smoking. You can't tell me playing crap teams every year hasn't helped their cause or masked problems, because you'd be wrong.

No reason to think the Pats won't be in the playoffs next year, also no reason to think they won't get bounced again if Belichick and the front office don't address the defense and WR position.

This won't happen if Belichick keeps trading down. I'm not saying he'd prefer low-round picks, but look at his draft record and tell me he doesn't shy away from top-picks if they aren't EXACTLY what he's looking for.

It's not rocket science, and Captain Hoodie isn't perfect, so I fail to understand why you have him on this unassailable pedestal. We're arguing because I could care less what Belichick has done in the past. The fact is he could have and should have won more Super Bowls, but he hasn't, therefore he is fair game for criticism.

Mangini beat the guy with a POS team in 2009!!

It's not about 31 other teams, this was just about picking apart the Patriots loss to the Ravens yesterday. If you want to pick apart other teams, we can set up a thread for that. Lack of building depth on defense, primarily through poor drafting the last few years, has been a big argument in the Pats community the last few years, go check it out if you don't believe me.

You cite some close wins and the close loss in the SBs for the Patriots, but there was nothing close about last night's game, so I don't see the correlation. You're changing the structure of the argument to fit your side -- which is fine, I do it too. :)

On a personal level, there is nothing I enjoy more as a sports fan than watching Belichick and Brady get humiliated in the playoffs because they're arrogant jag-offs who seem to increasingly be unable to see the forest for the trees, so fuck 'em. I hope they miss the playoffs next year with a healthy Tom Brady so there's no excuses.

The Pats have a team that not only can win the super bowl every year, but usually are the favorites. But Injuries and breaks happen, and in playoff games were teams are evenly matched you have to stay as healthy as can be and get a break,or two. They lost their best corner in the first half (who belicheck fleeced TB on)Lost oa safety, Gronk, their best offensive weapon played all of 1 series in the playoffs and only few games all year. Their D is young and impressive upfront, secondary needs a little more, but to think they aren't gonna be favored again come August when vegas puts their odds up and youre crazy.

Oh yea and Baltimore is a great team, Flaccos been lights out this post season and in the past, they shoulda beat NE last year, dropped TD pass from a win and FG Shank from a tie. SMH at what everyone expects a football team to do to be considered good? go 18-0 win each game by 21?

bac5665 wrote:Guys, a mediocre QB is going to win a Superbowl. That is very good for the NFL. Flacco will likely never be in the same class as Brady, Mannings, etc., and I don't care how good Caeppernick will be in a few years, he's mediocre this year. One way or another, a non-elite QB will take home the title this year, and that's really interesting.

I really don't have a dog in this but according to Bradshaw, coz I am too lazy to check & he gets paid:

1. Flacco has won more games than any QB since 2008.2. Above said has won more playoff games than any other QB since 2008.3. Above said has the highest completion % of all QB's with passes over 25 yds and "0" interceptions since 2008.

That sounds pretty good. I would take Flacco , Caeppernick, or even Kaepernick in 2 sec. and send Weeds/McCoy to where they belong .......Ariz/Jax/ or Buffalo.

bac5665 wrote:Guys, a mediocre QB is going to win a Superbowl. That is very good for the NFL. Flacco will likely never be in the same class as Brady, Mannings, etc., and I don't care how good Caeppernick will be in a few years, he's mediocre this year. One way or another, a non-elite QB will take home the title this year, and that's really interesting.

I really don't have a dog in this but according to Bradshaw, coz I am too lazy to check & he gets paid:

1. Flacco has won more games than any QB since 2008.2. Above said has won more playoff games than any other QB since 2008.3. Above said has the highest completion % of all QB's with passes over 25 yds and "0" interceptions since 2008.

That sounds pretty good. I would take Flacco , Caeppernick, or even Kaepernick in 2 sec. and send Weeds/McCoy to where they belong .......Ariz/Jax/ or Buffalo.

bac5665 wrote:Guys, a mediocre QB is going to win a Superbowl. That is very good for the NFL. Flacco will likely never be in the same class as Brady, Mannings, etc., and I don't care how good Caeppernick will be in a few years, he's mediocre this year. One way or another, a non-elite QB will take home the title this year, and that's really interesting.

I really don't have a dog in this but according to Bradshaw, coz I am too lazy to check & he gets paid:

1. Flacco has won more games than any QB since 2008.2. Above said has won more playoff games than any other QB since 2008.3. Above said has the highest completion % of all QB's with passes over 25 yds and "0" interceptions since 2008.

That sounds pretty good. I would take Flacco , Caeppernick, or even Kaepernick in 2 sec. and send Weeds/McCoy to where they belong .......Ariz/Jax/ or Buffalo.

Flacco is also the same guy that goes home last week short of the greatest secondary disaster in the history of the league. But I guess we should give him credit for throwing that ball that faked like it was falling out of the sky before giving itself that second boost to get it to his spot.

Did I really read somewhere in this thread that Colin Kaepernick is mediocre?

Kaepernick has looked like a legit, no joke, top 5 QB. Yeah I went there. TOP FIVE. There are maybe 3 guys that can make some of the throws he's been making, and maybe 3 guys who can run like him. None of the guys from the passing 3 are also in the running 3. Will defenses figure him out, force him to change? Hell if I know. But the potential of that kid is blindingly high, and he's been straight up elite in the playoffs. Not fluky elite. All time skills elite. A messiah in pads.

pup wrote:Flacco is also the same guy that goes home last week short of the greatest secondary disaster in the history of the league. But I guess we should give him credit for throwing that ball that faked like it was falling out of the sky before giving itself that second boost to get it to his spot.

Yes he is.

Bronco corner should be banished for letting that mortar go over his head.

But again all relative, contrast that to what we'd get......an illegal procedure penalty...hold..or illegal formation.

Our WR would step out of bounds & become ineligible.....or quit running his route......or catch it with one toe on the line......

Weeden would get sacked not believing our guy is open 6 yds behind the DB, or throw it six rows up to avoid the interception......or check down to Richardson running that devastating parallel to the LOS flat pass.

We are on different ends of the evolutionary scale with the Ravens. Here's hoping the newest Regime gets us some more players.

bac5665 wrote:Guys, a mediocre QB is going to win a Superbowl. That is very good for the NFL. Flacco will likely never be in the same class as Brady, Mannings, etc., and I don't care how good Caeppernick will be in a few years, he's mediocre this year. One way or another, a non-elite QB will take home the title this year, and that's really interesting.