nothing wrong with 4x, in fact the cross number is irrelevant. 3x is used with 32 hole standard MTB setups as it gives the best angle at the hub without straining over the first spoke.Some 36hole hubs rim combos can use 4x without problems near the hub and so that technically will give the better wheel.

Thanks for that Fluffy - not only does it make sense but it explains a lot. Once again, I log onto Retrobike and I learn something

1x will result in a stiffer (laterally) build than 3x. 2x NDS and 3x DS I do't think does anything for stiffness. It will reduce the tension balance slightly. Reversing the spoke pattern to 2x DS ad 3x NDS will improve tension balance slightly but it is slight (less tha 50N).

I find it hard to understand the need for anything other than 3x on 36 spoke wheel. It looks the best. When you are riding no one will know what spoke pattern yo have anyway. Crow's feet is a faff due tot he different spoke lengths.

You could build the wheels with Laser spokes given the spoke count. That would be nice and light and still give good stiffness.

I don't understand why you have 7 bikes (from your sig) surely one would do?

+1 for the above. Got my 32h M950 hubs on 217 ceramics laced that way. Been building my wheels that way since 1992. I think it might give a laterally stiffer wheel - no proof or science, just gut feel.

Never had any problems with them and it's a bit different from 3 cross front & rear.

Thanks Jon, nice to hear the hubs can cope with 1x easily, pictures would be cool?

My comment about spoke crossing is that 1x 2x pattern do not confer any real world advantage over a 3x 36 spoke wheel. You of course can build a wheel that way sucessfully but you do it to do something different. That all. So it not a face palm moment at all.

A laser spoke is a Sapim Laser which is a thing gauge double butted spoke. Of course Shimano never warrantied there hubs for 1x lacing but the warranty on a M950 hub expired a very long time ago.

surly the op wants to do something different though, hence the question.

Sapim Laser is the Sapim version of the DT Revolution and has the same problems when building (2.0/1.5/2.0 butting)Oddly the last two sets of early 90's racing wheels use 1.8mm PG spokes, OEM as well, compared to the normal 2.0/1.8/2.0 spoke DT Competition.Weenies what are they like

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