Wednesday, February 27, 2013

CRUNCH TIME!

I'm viewing this Davis situation, as a bonafide landmark decision. It might not be Roe v. Wade caliber... but it's truly significant, in terms of the TLB case specifically.

Beyond this case specifically, Brown's decision will speak volumes regarding this nation's outlook on justice. As a society, do we stress restitution or rehabilitation?

If Governor Brown approves Davis, the other Manson folks (Leslie, et,al) are one step closer to the door. There's no other way to slice that pie... and Debra Tate knows that.

If Governor Brown denies Davis... it will send a strong message, that these folks will likely never be paroled.

This decision is truly, one of the most significant "current day" situations related to this (40+ year-old) case. One might even say, that this decision is the most significant legal situation, since the results of the original trial(s).

22 comments:

I agree, this is almost as important as the original verdicts 40+ years ago..... some may say im too light on punishment but I think forty years for what bruce did is enough.... let the old guy out and give him a chance to hear some music and go to the desert or the forest and see natures beauty before he dies.... he is not gona get out and restart the Manson family....all he wants is to have his last days in peace, true he didnt offer that to others but we would be no better than him if he's denied TWICE> This is not Charlie Manson... This is Bruce Davis, he is remorseful, old, and I feel forty years for what he did is enough.... let the guy get close to God and nature and live his remaining years in peace.... btw Squecky has been fine since her release. If she is doing fine I feel Bruce will too, just like Clem.... if Manson wasnt tagged on thier backs they would have been out along time ago.... cept for Clem, that guy just worked the system hardcore lolsz. - Chris1967

Rehabilitation or restitution. Well, said Lynyrd. That is what it boils down to.

Personally, I think if you go so far as take someone's life, crimes against children and rape then it's restitution. You pay in full.

The issue here, imo, is if we (U.S.)ultimately gave Davis life with possiblilty of parole and Davis did all required to qualify for parole then I see no alternative other than Davis should be released which makes me angry at the lawmakers because it should've been life without parole and we wouldn't even be here.

But it is what it is and we are where we are. Two days away from another Manson Family murderer with a realistic chance of getting released.

A couple things come to mind here for me. First, CA is the only state I know of that the governor has to approve decisions made by the parole board. I'm not aware of the technicalities involved, but I suppose it's possible that the governor would have 15 or more parole decisions to make every month. I doubt if the governor has time to review in detail every one, these decisions may be left to staff.

Secondly, the closer this gets to the absolute "deadline" for a decision, it reminds me of the Grogan release, where Grogan was released like a week or two before the public was even made aware. I suppose it's possible Davis is already on the street, and the public and the media haven't even been informed yet.

My problem with our justice system (if, you can call it a problem), is the immense disparity of punishment administered for similar crimes.

Can we all agree, that Davis would have been released years ago, if he murdered an unknown gas station attendant and cashier, in Butt Lick South Dakota?

Picture it:Davis kills a black gas station attendant and his cashier wife... steals $60 out of their till... and gets caught 15 miles down the road.

Does anyone honestly believe, that he'd still be in jail today? Really?

That's my major "beef" with our system.

If you're gonna be tough on crime, that's fine... be tough on everyone.If you're gonna be lenient on crime, that's fine... be lenient on everyone.

Davis is still in prison toady, because his name is connected to "Charles Manson"... but moreover, because a Hollywood actress... a coffee heiress... and a "hairdresser to the stars" (etc), were all murdered at Cielo Drive.

Some "lives" are simply more valuable than others in our society.I don't like that system of thought... or, that value system.The man who kills an unknown black gas station attendant and cashier in South Dakota, should be subject to the same punishment as the Actress-murderer in Hollywood (and vice-versa).The exact same.

Sunset77 stated it well, on a previous thread.

Sunset said:"The inherent "unfairness" of the system is one of the reasons I started looking up the Manson case in the first place.

Robert Anderson committed his crime in 1965 and received a death sentence. By 1976 he was released from prison. Charles Watson was involved in the brutal murder of a number of people, his death sentence was "commuted" and he still sits in prison to this day. Other people are in fact executed for similar crimes."

I'm not convinced his parole, if it goes through, will have much significance for the chances of the others. It might, but it might be overstated. Grogan's didn't impact any of them. The adamant refusal to let Atkins out, even on her deathbed, is more significant to me. Tex is going nowhere, ever, and I think the same is true for Krenwinkel. Beausoleil would have more of a chance if he wasn't so accustomed to shooting himself in the foot. Van Houten probably has the best chance of anyone (in my admittedly subjective view), but I'm not particularly optimistic about her chances either. "Tate-LaBianca" is the shorthand, after "Manson", that everyone associates with these events, whether they know much about the cases or not. "Tate-LaBianca" continues to be the stuff of nightmares in the broader public imagination. Her association with LaBianca will probably continue to ensure that she receives the kind of attention and scrutiny from the public and mass media that someone like Davis was able to more or less elude throughout his incarceration.

I said (and I quote), that Davis' release would place them "one step closer to the door".One step."

I understand; I just think there has been a general perception, be it in comments on news stories or in the TLB blogosphere more specifically, that one getting out after all this time bodes well for most/all of the others, and I'm not convinced of that.

Leigh said:"The adamant refusal to let Atkins out, even on her deathbed, is more significant to me".

Lynryd: I disagree.

The main reason for my disagreement:

I never believed for a single moment, that Atkins would ever be released.The result of that situation was a forgone conclusion.

She applied for a compassionate release, and the authorities were forced to address it.The media of course, jumped all over it.It was all wonderful drama, but little else.

The difference here, is that Davis has a legitimate chance.

__

I think there might have been a slight miscommunication with that. I meant that the refusal to let Atkins out seems like it will be the pattern for most, if not all, of those who will remain incarcerated if and when Davis obtains his parole. I think we will find that Watson and Krenwinkel find themselves in a situation that more closely resembles that of Atkins - the utter refusal to let them out no matter what - rather than being let out like Davis (this assumes Davis will get out, which I understand is not a foregone conclusion). Maybe Beausoleil and Van Houten will be different. Only time will tell.

Leigh said:" I just think there has been a general perception, be it in comments on news stories or in the TLB blogosphere more specifically, that one getting out after all this time bodes well for most/all of the others"

Well...

The reason for that general perception, is this:

This (as everyone knows), was (and still is), a very high-profile case.

No governor really wants to be the first man/woman to release one of these clowns.

I mean... barring the inexplicable "Clem deal"... I doubt any governor really wants the esteemed distinction (LOL) of being the first man/woman to release a "Manson family member".

And that's why, the approval of Davis (or any one of these clowns), is viewed as significant.

The thought process, is that... once one governor makes that move (and releases one of them)... it will make it easier for future governor's to do so.

There is an element of truth and reality to that mindset.It would likely make it somewhat easier for future governors.To what degree of course, is debatable.

It's a perception.It's the old "ice-breaker" mentality.Who's gonna be the first governor, to "break the ice", sorta speak?"Open the floodgates", if you will?... LOL(OK... opening the floodgates is clearly an exaggeration, but the mindset is along those lines).

If nothing else, the release of any "Manson Family member" is historical.

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I think this decision will carry great significance, either way.

If Davis is approved... their will be less public shock attached to any possible approvals in the future.(That's what I was trying to say above)

If Davis is denied again, it will probably carry even more significance.It will certainly send a very strong message.The message being:The others are screwed... especially Leslie.

Davis is on the thresh-hold.By all board standards, he's earned release... twice.A second consecutive governor denial, is pretty big stuff.

Lynryd: "If nothing else, the release of any "Manson Family member" is historical."

And with that, we agree! I am very interested to see how it all unfolds and what it potentially leads to, if Davis does obtain release. My perceptions are only my perceptions. I could be dead wrong about any or all of them. I wasn't even born when Grogan was paroled, so I have no recollection of how that was reported on. It seems to have been done as quietly as possible. The same definitely hasn't been true for Davis. We're in a different age, the media age, the social networking age, the tech age, whatever one prefers to call it. For that reason alone the feedback loop we'll instantly witness should he be the one who crosses that particular Rubicon will be interesting. It will potentially be very illuminating in terms of where society is at in its attitudes about prison's purpose in today's society. Not that we can't glean information about those attitudes elsewhere, but something like this, a landmark case with notorious defendants who've been incarcerated for decades, will be a novelty.

FRIENDS

"Charlie Manson is a five foot seven schizophrenic, who if it weren't for the murder of Sharon Tate, would never be known or discussed. And I'm not saying he isn't funny and entertaining. I'm saying he's a dime a dozen criminal-class punk, who had the good fortune of running into some middle class pseudo-revolutionary white girls." -- Tom G

"The simple and undeniable truth, is that Charlie and the gang were/are the biggest idiots, morons and imbeciles on the planet." -- Leary7

"Them fucking fruitcakes could not pour piss out of a boot, with the bottom written on it."--Harold True