It's like Pryor from the Arguello fight or Hagler from the Hearns fight. Combination of a great fighter being in his absolute physical prime plus having a point to prove.

I disagree with this. Arguello and Hearns weren't at their best at 140 and 160; more like fourth and third respectively. They went up to meet those guys and lost -- Leonard is a definition natural welter. Duran overcame more than Pryor or Hagler, and Leonard's better than both Arguello and Hearns at their best weight, much less where those fights took place.

Can we shut this thread down? The answer is Roberto Durán Samaniego - clearly - which is saying something given Mayweather's brilliance. Watch the damn fight films. Watch their entire careers. Watch their best performances. Assess the level of opposition they're facing at their best and the different facets (and the depth/quality of those facets) they show when dealing when them.

Can we shut this thread down? The answer is Roberto Durán Samaniego - clearly - which is saying something given Mayweather's brilliance. Watch the damn fight films. Watch their entire careers. Watch their best performances. Assess the level of opposition they're facing at their best and the different facets (and the depth/quality of those facets) they show when dealing when them.

Didn't see that part of this thread, but if Bert Sugar did, I don't see why not

I also tend to agree with his decision to leave Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall out of the top 100 and place him well behind Primo Carnera. Luis Rodriguez also -the Cuban brawler with mediocre boxing skills who deserves no place ahead of the much more accomplished and deeper resume of Sonny Liston.

I didn't get past the top ten on Sugar's list. I literally didn't bother with the rest of it.

Bert was a wonderful character in the sport, an insightful story teller, and a real throwback kind of reporter, but his lists were ****ing cringe-worthy. I have no idea why he, or so many others, rate Johnson and Dempsey so high in the P4P lists. There are a whole host of fighters who not only have far better lists of victories and accomplishments, but just straight look superior on film. It has to be historical and societal significance clouding better judgment. If that's not it though, I'm clueless...

Yeah, rating Johnson and Dempsey over Canzoneri and Ross is as criminal as rating D12 and Zo over The Dream.

Bert was a wonderful character in the sport, an insightful story teller, and a real throwback kind of reporter, but his lists were ****ing cringe-worthy. I have no idea why he, or so many others, rate Johnson and Dempsey so high in the P4P lists. There are a whole host of fighters who not only have far better lists of victories and accomplishments, but just straight look superior on film. It has to be historical and societal significance clouding better judgment. If that's not it though, I'm clueless...

Yeah, rating Johnson and Dempsey over Canzoneri and Ross is as criminal as rating D12 and Zo over The Dream.

You're missed around here.

I expressed the same thing with Johnson/Dempsey: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I expressed the same thing with Johnson/Dempsey: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I don't have much time to post anymore while finishing up undergrad. I'm only posting now because I took adderall and instead of focusing on statistics for an exam on Monday, I've been doing nothing but watching YouTube boxing videos and scrolling through threads on here...for four straight hours. ****

I'm on the opposite side of things: My phone makes this place too easily accessible, from anywhere, any time. Actually got out to L.A. last weekend and made maybe 2 posts-it was refreshing. This place is something of an addiction that I should probably quit soon.

I'm on the opposite side of things: My phone makes this place too easily accessible, from anywhere, any time. Actually got out to L.A. last weekend and made maybe 2 posts-it was refreshing. This place is something of an addiction that I should probably quit soon.

I feel you.

It's weird. This place is like a home away from home - like an online/e-home. Everybody has a love for boxing and you can engage in discussion about current and past fights and fighters. You just can't do that in real life, or at least I can't. My closest friends know Pacquiao, Marquez, Mayweather, and Cotto, which is about 2-4 more fighters than the majority of the people I associate with can name.

It's weird. This place is like a home away from home - like an online/e-home. Everybody has a love for boxing and you can engage in discussion about current and past fights and fighters. You just can't do that in real life, or at least I can't. My closest friends know Pacquiao, Marquez, Mayweather, and Cotto, which is about 2-4 more fighters than the majority of the people I associate with can name.

...don't outright quit, though. **** that.

95% of the people I've talked to on here about that have the same problem with their friends, and it's the exact situation for me. It's pretty miserable to be utterly strung up into this boxing **** - hopelessly - with so few humans to interact with about it outside of this place. I've managed to get one of them to become interested, but I pretty much tend to make it the dominant topic, especially the more intoxicated I get. It's very one-sided. I've given away all kinds of books and dvd's, trying to get him on this ****.

I wouldn't quit outright, but it's already December and I'm supposed to be bulking this winter. This place isn't helping me focus on that.

95% of the people I've talked to on here about that have the same problem with their friends, and it's the exact situation for me. It's pretty miserable to be utterly strung up into this boxing **** - hopelessly - with so few humans to interact with about it outside of this place. I've managed to get one of them to become interested, but I pretty much tend to make it the dominant topic, especially the more intoxicated I get. It's very one-sided. I've given away all kinds of books and dvd's, trying to get him on this ****.

I wouldn't quit outright, but it's already December and I'm supposed to be bulking this winter. This place isn't helping me focus on that.

Bodybuild, though it's not something I've been too terribly dedicated about the last couple years. Like to smoke and drink a little too much, don't always separate my meals adequately plus I have two little ones running around that need attention.

Bodybuild, though it's not something I've been too terribly dedicated about the last couple years. Like to smoke and drink a little too much, don't always separate my meals adequately plus I have two little ones running around that need attention.

Nice...same here. Did you compete before or has it been a purely a personal endeavor?

Yeah, I imagine it'd be tough prepping and finding time for every meal with two kids to look after. No doubt they'd be the priority over getting each meal in on-time, and rightfully so. I've been bodybuilding a bit myself for the past few years. Nothing competitive, but I let myself go a bit too much bulking the past few months, so I'm cutting right now. Worst ****ing time to be doing this with the holidays coming up.