WebKit now with open Bugzilla

Apple opened the WebKit development in OpenDarwin, with a public bug/feature request database, and may give direct access to the repository for trusty (the ones with good patches record) contributors. Check-out the WebKit Open Source Site more.

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15 Comments

I don’t think that would have happened without the public outcry about the way Apple was acting towards the KHTML developers.

But what’s really great, this move will not only benefit KHTML, but I’m pretty sure it will also benefit Apple and Safari.

So now everyone is better of than before.

2005-06-07 5:58 pm

hopefully good for GNUstep as well, as they badly need webkit.

2005-06-07 5:58 pm

That’s about write access. The news is also that their CVS including complete history is publicly available now.

2005-06-07 6:56 pm

I am sure there will be a zillion posts to the effect that the debates in forums such as this one forced evil Apple to open up their webcore development. This is totally false IMHO. David Hyatt is a stand-up guy who, if at any time was ever approached by the KHTML people about their concerns probably would have championed the move of webcore to a more open system and none of this would have ever been news. Apple was probably simply unaware there was a problem. Reasonable dialogue exchange between OSS and companies who use open source in their products probably happens all the time with good results but does not get reported because it is uninteresting unless the conspiracy types can come out and say “Look how evil company X is doing such a baaaad thing!” Here is in fact my biggest bitch with the internet in general. It is so easy for people here and in other similar forums to just read a headline and jump to a conclusion and jump down someone’s throat. It is probably the biggest hurdle faced by OSS. Who would want to work with them if instead of reasonably trying to work things out like adults, they instead do an end around and start a flame-war on the internet through forum sites and blogs? I want to say that I am not stereotyping OSS. It is a vocal minority and more than likely just zealots and not developers (i.e. people who post here and not people actually working on OSS projects).

So if you are one of those people who will pat yourself on your back thinking you helped in the opening of webcore because of your bitching here or elsewhere in a public forum, I would encourage you to think again and in the future, perhaps act more reasonably and get all the facts before you attack. Apple did this in spite of your bitching.

2005-06-07 7:08 pm

“It is so easy for people here and in other similar forums to just read a headline and jump to a conclusion and jump down someone’s throat.”

I couldn’t agree more!

Take for example some uninformed poster, jumping down the throats of people he calls OSS types (whoever that may be), without even knowing what happened and without even bothering to check the facts that are available on the internet.

Had he done the latter, he would have found out that the KHTML devs tried several times to get in contact with Apple and discuss the situation, without any success whatsoever. Some devs even offered to sign NDAs in order to at least get read access to Apple’s bugtracking system. Apple didn’t even deem it necessary to answer.

Now after there was this public outcry about how Apple was acting, KHTML devs were approached by Apple in an effort to solve the situation.

All this information is freely available on the Internet, for everyone, however it’s so much more convenient to stick to ones religious believes, isn’t it?

2005-06-07 7:12 pm

> Apple was probably simply unaware there was a problem.

This is not true. KHTML devs asked Apple many times, and even said they were willing to sign NDA’s, but were rebuffed– not neccesarily by the WebCore devs, but Apple themselves. It wasn’t until the whole thing went public was there an outrage.

2005-06-07 7:13 pm

They won’t be satisfied. Now they’re going to complain that it will be difficult to merge the code from Webkit into KHTML because there is only the whole source code available, instead of nice, neat little patches. No matter what a company does, it’ll never satisfy the OSS zealots. You could give each of them $1000, and they’ll complain that it should have been $1001 :S

2005-06-07 7:45 pm

> Anonymous (IP: —.rb.lax.centurytel.net)

> hopefully good for GNUstep as well, as they badly need webkit.

WebKit is using C++, and the Apple version of Objective C/C++, while the GNUStep guys are only using the Objective C one (without C++). The GNUStep guys are having something similliar to WebKit, but can’t remmember now the name (not that familiar with their stuff).

2005-06-07 8:49 pm

> Now they’re going to complain that it will be difficult to merge the code from Webkit into KHTML because there is only the whole source code available

Did you read the news at all? CVS is now open, you can track down every single commit (for the dumb, every single patch).

2005-06-07 9:50 pm

kaiwai: “They won’t be satisfied. Now they’re going to complain that it will be difficult to merge the code from Webkit into KHTML because there is only the whole source code available, instead of nice, neat little patches. No matter what a company does, it’ll never satisfy the OSS zealots. You could give each of them $1000, and they’ll complain that it should have been $1001 :S

So, the KDE developers are a bunch of babies? Well, now that we have your word on it I feel so much more informed.

Please, provide references so that we can learn the wisdom that you have gained but others — strangely — just can’t seem to find.

Why is that, anyway?

2005-06-07 11:23 pm

> Here is in fact my biggest bitch with the internet in

> general. It is so easy for people here and in other similar

> forums to just read a headline and jump to a conclusion and

> jump down someone’s throat.

Seeing as you’ve mischaracterized the discussion in the same manner that many of these link aggregators with forums have, I hope that you’ll learn from your own mistakes.

That is the original blog post that started this nonsense. On the bright side the ensuing media circus that mischaracterized Zack Rusin’s position certainly did have something to do with this. Apple wasn’t ignorant of their desires as you can read, it just wasn’t a priority of theirs.

2005-06-08 9:08 am

Seriously, clue up man. You’re making rash generalisations that make me feel embarassed for you and your bigotry.

2005-06-08 9:49 am

Seriously, clue up man. You’re making rash generalisations that make me feel embarrassed for you and your bigotry.

Interesting that you go on about bigotry, and yet, you can’t even be bothered reading what I wrote; I *SPECIFICALLY SAID ‘OSS zealots’ for that simple reason, to separate the HARD WORKING and COMMITTED KDE developers from the noisy rabble rousers the peruse this forum, and blasting anything and anyone who remotely show only 95% commitment to their OSS cause.

The vast majority of KDE developers are getting along with the job, and with the opensourcing of the Webkit, it’ll make life alot easier for all concerned. The only people who are making a noise, are a few uninformed zealots who couldn’t write a line of code, even if they were paid to.

2005-06-08 12:09 pm

“No matter what a company does, it’ll never satisfy the OSS zealots.”

What? The “zealots” who made Apple’s browser possible?

“The only people who are making a noise, are a few uninformed zealots who couldn’t write a line of code, even if they were paid to.”

Hmmm, I seem to remember that it was the KDE developers themselves (not random members of the peanut gallery) who had to make that “noise” after being given the brush off from Apple, and whilst having to endure fanboy-level statements gushing about Safari and/or the state of Konqueror’s ACID2 compliance (probably on OSNews, too).

Yes, Apple only ever needed to provide “source drops” of KHTML to their customers (as the LGPL mandates), but those weren’t particularly suitable for rapid fanboy-placating inclusion into KDE. Suggestions about KDE adopting WebCore were ridiculously ill-thought-through with respect to a number of technical and social factors. Moreover, it’s surely in the best interests of everyone to openly collaborate on Web technologies, rather than have another browser unstandardisation war.

But I guess such a nuanced analysis isn’t readily digested and regurgitated in “Apple are so cool and generous” corporate fanboyism statements. Oh, and let’s not even think about half Apple’s platform being created by OSS developers, or “zealots” as you ridiculously call them.