I honestly was not directing anything at any person, I was just referring to society as a whole. But I will take note of that and make sure I'm more clear and mellow next time. Its a passionate subject!!

cheers

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 20 January 2011 05:02

Bubba#$%Kron, tone down the name-calling - we allow a certain amount of latitude here, but we're not going to allow attacks on other members.

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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point." -Alan Watts

Well, if the people of California, represented by their elected officials, believe that the state should pay for sex change surgeries but not offer basic universal health care... that's their option. What can I do? I don't vote there.

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In my example, there was a pre-existing condition. That is all that is important.

Hold your horses there... "that is all that's important"? Respectfully no. My point was that car insurance is different from health insurance and my OP was NOT about health _insurance_ but about State Health Care; the only pre-existing condition here is "are you ill? then we'll take care of you; if you're not ill, we won't".Who defines if I am ill and what illness I have? The state doctor, to avoid private interests to interfere with proper care and administration.

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I don't want people to be denied care. They are not as it is now.. the conversation about what is really wrong has been subverted from the real issues, in my opinion.

Well, my OP was about my visit to the state clinic here in my underdeveloped third world country where people go to work by hopping from vine to vine, where monkeys and snakes roam the streets and whose main export is bananas (real 'explanation' of what Brazil is given by a 'developed' guy in another internet forum a couple of months ago).

TBH, a lot of fellow middle-class paulistas (that's Portuguese for 'citizen of S

California is not paying for sex changes!!! We cant even pay our employees pensions!! Please back up ridiculous statements with links or facts!!!

That would be on every news channel if that was true!! come on?!?!?!

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"When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point." -Alan Watts

I don't see tea-somethings or right-wingers protesting that their taxes are used to pay school for other people's kids or provide roads for people who paid less than them and other stuff...

Wanna drive your car from NY to LA? Pave your own road, dammit, who says the government HAS to provide you with tarmac? Wanna drive on MY dime, you lazy-a$$? No way.

And why should _I_ pay school for that irresponsible bum who had 6 kids? I did my family planning and have ONE kid, I shouldn't pay for more than that.

I want my freedom!

So let's end now the political/ideological stuff, this thread was started by me to show how the public health system works here in my city...

Now, I'd like to hear from our fellow audio engineers in other countries how they go about getting a doctor's appointment in their state health systems.

I'd prefer first-hand reports: until I actually used the local public health care, I had the worst possible image of it.

I believe that if the forum members from all countries can see the various different approaches to public health care around the world as told by people they know from this forum it will be a great resource and provide good food for thought.

So, how about France, Germany, the UK, Canada, etc? Please let us know!

Now were bankrupt so it's gone. There are traces of free but it now includes a tax (wich takes the free out of it) and some not-very-healthy care if you go to Public hospitals or clinics.And be ready to wait for more than a year for surgery.

It's way too expensive to maintain such a benefit if you don't have oil being drilled somewhere.

It's way too expensive to maintain such a benefit if you don't have oil being drilled somewhere.

Tell that to the Cubans.

The reality is that in any country, the population on average pay X% for their healthcare, whether that is through private care (payed directly), state care (payed through taxes) or some combination of both.

The reality is also that systems which are founded on a socialist perspective (though details of implementation change, and may include components or lessons from the private sector), are, shocking as it may seem to those who worship capitalism, capable of providing considerably better value for money, so if you don't have oil being drilled that's the system you want.

The recent healthcare bill in the USA was I suspect a terribly wasted opportunity. Lots of people fought having one at all, probably even before it was announced (which may have led to it already being a messed up compromise).. wrong argument. The arguments should have been about WHAT system of public healthcare to bring in, not about whether you should keep the existing expensive, inefficient and also uncivilized system.

Other countries pay less than Americans, they're as healthy (if not healthier), and noone goes bankrupt because they contract an illness... what's not to like?

So, how about France, Germany, the UK, Canada, etc? Please let us know!

In Canada it basically works. The quality of care is not up to what is would be in a high priced, American "specialty" hospital, but from what I understand from talking to my family (they're ALL Americans) and friends is that it is considerably better than what the majority of americans are seeing. And most importantly, its thorough and affordable.

My father is currently recovering from 18 months of chemo and radiation after having a malignant tumor removed from his brain. He has received fantastic and timely care. No excessive waiting and NO CHARGE. None.

If you lined up 1000 canucks, you would be hard pressed to find one that wouldn't be happy/proud to have done their part to help him.

I don't think that Americans are fundamentally uncaring, but I do believe that there is a unique sickness in its society that heralds the "every man for himself" mentality as something to be proud of.

Watching the corporate media manipulate the least educated (and arguably the least fortunate) of its society to mobilize to fight social medicine in the form of pseudo patriotism is hard to take. What the teabaggers (sorry tidewater) don't seem to realize is that Rupert Murdoch (and the corporate criminals he operates on behalf of) are the very ones that benefit from your misguided anger. Meanwhile the middle class is systematically eroded.

Making health care a basic human right is NOT THE SAME AS COMMUNISM! You CAN have a free market economy AND a social safety net. The two need be mutually exclusive. If you've been taught otherwise, then you've been LIED TO. Repeatedly.