Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

It's sad to see all this crap happening especially with the rather unsurprising lack of clarity from Royal Mail. I feel for those of you that had stuff destroyed by RM, customs or whoever. I guess there was always that risk with sending Internationally as perfumes were not allowed anyway and we got around it by declaring it as cosmetics or toiletries. I was lucky in that I had no outgoing decants/bottles recently and I was able to edit my listing after I saw what's been going on. Just last week I received a parcel from Duty Free Perfume in UK and that had a completed ID8000 label on it. I also had one from ALZD in Germany and that was delivered by Parcel Force. It will be interesting to see what happens with incoming parcels because that could mean no more ALZD, Surrender To Chance etc. God that's going to be heart breaking for me. But I'm going to be really peeved if we can not send within the UK and yet business customers can. It doesn't matter if a business customer has packed it on a box and put the ID8000 sticker on. We can all do that if they made it clear. Being a business customer doesn't make the perfume any safer. Now if anyone from Royal Mail is reading can someone please untie Mr Eadie so he can get to his PC/phone and give us some answers. I really hope you've been feeding him whilst you had him tied up because he's going to have a lot of emails to read.

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

'Sending internationally via Air services is 100% prohibited and the contents will be confiscated and destroyed and you may be liable for prosecution'.

I think it is the same story here in Ireland! Crap! What next - will they stop us bringing home perfume when we are on holiday?! I just bought a bunch of small atomisers, funnels, etc, to start swapping samples!

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

@ Scentsucker

Was listening to Dr. D. Spiegelhalter, Prof.of Public Understanding of Risk @ Cambridge on B.B.C. R4's 'Today' earlier.
He quoted some interesting figures about the safety of international commercial airline flights as last year was apparently the safest since 1945 (475 fatalities in 23 accidents worldwide, way more flights, etc.).

Presumably it will even be safer now that the dreaded exploding scent bottles no longer fly!

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Originally Posted by lpp

I sincerely hope that he's been suffocated by them! But they probs didn't tell him what was going on either!

At present, the plan is that personal customers *should* be able to ship within the U.K. from July, but I don't think that all the agreements have been signed yet, so the date could alter.

I also don't think that we know anything approaching the full story.

Interesting that the Press are not biting, but there's a bit of home news at present, what with dobbin, reynard & all!

That would be the day, lpp. The ban was imposed without any consultation whatsoever. Disgraceful.

Originally Posted by galwaygirl001

I think it is the same story here in Ireland! Crap! What next - will they stop us bringing home perfume when we are on holiday?! I just bought a bunch of small atomisers, funnels, etc, to start swapping samples!

And there I was thinking you guys in Ireland had a bit more sense than the muppets we have over here!! Don't let the British teach you about Health and Safety, as your economy will truly go down the toilet then....

Originally Posted by lpp

Presumably it will even be safer now that the dreaded exploding scent bottles no longer fly!

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Originally Posted by rum

And there I was thinking you guys in Ireland had a bit more sense than the muppets we have over here!! Don't let the British teach you about Health and Safety, as your economy will truly go down the toilet then....

It already has! the uk had nothing to do with our economy going down the toilet though, that was excessive lending by banks to fuel a property boom that went bang, our government deciding to bail out the bust banks & turn banking debt into irish debt and the our government accepting EU money to 'help us' in exchange for austerity budgets for the next couple of hundred years and our economic sovereignty...aaaggghhh! Ahem, rant over, sorry, back to perfume!

The change to international postage laws seems to be an EU thing as well as a US thing - since January my local post office query if parcels destined for international addresses contain perfume, I don't think it was being enforced until this year. I don't want to risk packages being destroyed so until a reasonably priced alternative option comes up for shipping fragrances internationally I will be sticking to postage within Ireland only.

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Looks Like it isn't Royal Mail's fault, they are just enforcing the ICAO new guidlines:
International

International outbound parcels will continue to face the restrictions imposed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), while revised restrictions on international parcels will come into force on 14th January, 2013.

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Originally Posted by Possum-Pie

Looks Like it isn't Royal Mail's fault, they are just enforcing the ICAO new guidlines:
International

International outbound parcels will continue to face the restrictions imposed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), while revised restrictions on international parcels will come into force on 14th January, 2013.

Totally agree that the rules/reason for the rules are not their fault - my problem is with the way that they told the public one thing & the poor old staff another!

And sprung it on the public without notice - don't forget, even Ebay didn't realise until a while after it was affecting sold listings.

In most businesses, a customer repeatedly asking a question wouldn't need to go to the Chairman's Office for an (eventual) answer as the idea that something was amiss would occur earlier!

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Originally Posted by lpp

Welcome to our world of rampant incompetence!

LOL

But how do online stores like luckyscent and First in Fragrance send and receive perfumes? They have all kinds of different perfumes from different parts of the world in their stocks and paying higher fees or using a different shipping service would mean spending extra money which is not what businesses want these days.

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

I've emailed Essenza Nobile today asking if they've had any problems delivering to the UK, and they said they haven't heard of anything untoward (they use UPS) so I may do a financially risky experiment tomorrow and buy the frag I've been coveting and see what happens....

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Originally Posted by donna255

La Falneuse, its products leaving the UK at the moment. Items are coming in okay, so far.

On MUA a number of people saying they have been swapping and the other side from the UK has not turned up. Cosmetics marked as such are being x-rayed now.

Phew!

To be honest, this is really confusing what with the often contradictary info from the Royal Mail...I thought the biggest threat to perfume this year would be any new IFRA regs, I shall try and stock up while I can, but the situation is shite frankly

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

I think I'm going to bite the bullet, and order from the Netherlands in the next few weeks. I'll warn them that they need to find a suitable carrier so the perfume actually gets here.

In light of all these developments, I went a bit mad and bought quite a few bottles from heathrow duty free yesterday. It seems this may soon become the cheapest way to purchase some fragrances in the UK. Will probably get a few more on the way back....

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

Originally Posted by La Flâneuse

I've emailed Essenza Nobile today asking if they've had any problems delivering to the UK, and they said they haven't heard of anything untoward (they use UPS) so I may do a financially risky experiment tomorrow and buy the frag I've been coveting and see what happens....

UPS does not generally use commercial carriers, they have their own fleet of planes, so they may not be subject to ICAO.

Here in the States, you cannot send perfumes any other way except First Class Mail which moves by Ground. UPS will move perfumes by air as long as it is marked with the correct stickers.

Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

A response to my letter from a Mr David Gee, Chairman and Chief Executive Office.

Dear Mrs (I deleted my name for privacy),

Thank you for emailing James Eadie on 8 February 2013 about the changes to what can and cannot be sent in the mail to overseas destinations. As part of our Chairman and Chief Executive’s Office, I have been asked to look into your enquiry and provide a response.

Last year, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) agreed updated rules with Royal Mail for sending small quantities of specific consumer items through the post, which affect what can and cannot be sent to both UK and international destinations. These updated rules mean specific changes to the types of items that can be carried by Royal Mail.

We cannot speak for airlines or the CAA, however when luggage is checked in at airports there are permitted thresholds of Dangerous Goods that may be carried which can be in check-in baggage, carry-on baggage or on person, and whether you need the airlines’ permission to carry them or whether they are completely forbidden. Airlines and security screening agencies have the right to refuse the carriage of certain items and restrictions implemented by countries in the interests of aviation security.

There are no reviews due in July 2013. On January 14 2013, the new rules came into effect for all contract business customers sending larger volumes on account to UK addresses and for all consumers and businesses sending items abroad. On July 15 2013, the new rules will be introduced for consumers and smaller business customers who send smaller volumes to UK addresses.

Royal Mail is not a carrier of dangerous goods and we have been working with the transport regulators to ensure what we do carry is sent in compliance with the rules. Royal Mail is not a licensed ADR Dangerous Goods carrier and as such we are not permitted to carry perfumes to international destinations. We realise the changes will have an effect on the perfumery industry and we are sorry that this is the case.

I would like to thank you for raising your concerns about the changes and giving us the opportunity to respond. If I can be of any further help or assistance, please contact me again.

This quite clearly states that there are NO REVIEWS due in July 2013. This is sealed and delivered and seemingly unchangeable however hard we stamp our perfumers little feet. We need to find a solution that complies and yet achieves what we need.

The question is simple...
How are we going to be allowed to send small fragrance samples globally and without risk of destruction?

I have tried one method which was to soak cotton in fragrance. The recipient has received it and was able to apply the frag. I'm not sure this actually achieved full compliance as in flammability but it did prevent it being a liquid and therefore was not under that section rule any longer.

Other options that presumably still comply may be
a) solid perfumes.
b) perfumes in oil as a base
c) perfume ingredients as long as they are not in an alcohol base as a tincture

I have to say this has blown my own business plans up entirely. Many years of careful planning and investment about to whistle up the swanee unless we can find a reasonable and compliant solution.