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I'm moving this to the alternative treatment forum. While I agree with their recommendations to exercise, eat well, and get enough sleep, I can do all those things and still be depressed.

Just because it hasn't worked for you, does not mean it belongs in the kooky unconventional forum with Scientology.

If anything, the ideas mentioned in this article are more mainstream that some of the whacky drug cocktails some have proposed.

Please read the heading: it says Medical, Nutritional, and Lifestyle alternatives. It is NOT kooky and unconventional to use good nutrition and vitamins to be healthier. And as I said on the other thread, if you knew me, you would know that I am a vocal advocate for a healthy lifestyle. I exercise over an hour every day and cook all my meals from scratch and raise my own vegetables. Do you?

This forum has nothing to do with Scientology. We all know that it is a wacky cult.

What's your problem, WileE? If you don't like how we run this place, go start your own.

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I'm moving this to the alternative treatment forum. While I agree with their recommendations to exercise, eat well, and get enough sleep, I can do all those things and still be depressed.

Just because it hasn't worked for you, does not mean it belongs in the kooky unconventional forum with Scientology.

If anything, the ideas mentioned in this article are more mainstream that some of the whacky drug cocktails some have proposed.

Please read the heading: it says Medical, Nutritional, and Lifestyle alternatives. It is NOT kooky and unconventional to use good nutrition and vitamins to be healthier. And as I said on the other thread, if you knew me, you would know that I am a vocal advocate for a healthy lifestyle. I exercise over an hour every day and cook all my meals from scratch and raise my own vegetables. Do you?

This forum has nothing to do with Scientology. We all know that it is a wacky cult.

What's your problem, WileE? If you don't like how we run this place, go start your own.

olga

Olga:

I have read the forum title and the forum description. Scientologists are encouraged to post in this forum so they can be mocked (as they should be).

As you pointed out in another thread, I'm new here. And, I want you to know that I didn't come here to upset the people that run the place. I was, however, a little confused when my thread suggesting good common sense treatment for depression was moved to the "alternative" forum where people with depression might never find it.

I'm also a little confused why you would suggest that a new user get the hell out of town just because he asks a question that suggests disagreement with your personal opinions.

By the way, I think you guys do a fine job of running this place. The content is well-managed, entertaining, and informative or I wouldn't be spending time here. I've learned a lot from these forums.

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I haven't been a mod here for a while, but it seems to me that we attract some very unwell and vulnerable people. Every once in a while, someone new will post something suggested a miracle cure or that is damning of medication and many of our members will be all over it, only to be disappointed later. We're a site for recovery, and whilst your post was very geared toward that, it was one that didn't cover the medication that frankly, so many of us need and should be on. It really does belong under lifestyle as it comes at the mental illness issue from that angle.

Med compliance is a tough spot here, we have many members who yo yo on and off meds at the slightest encouragement. As a mod I always felt a certain duty of care to make sure that people were being supported in looking after their mental health, not exploited by people who would take anti med stances. That's just me. If people are touchy about dealing with mental health without meds, it's only because we support so many in misery because they aren't med complaint, and because we know ourselves that meds have lifted us out the hole. It's also pretty demoralizing at times to realize you could be doing those things in the article and still be depressed.

I appreciate your article, it's a good one and we need more holistic lifestyle stuff on the site IMHO. But we also need to leave room for people to realize that for a lot of people, medication is key.

Edited July 26, 2010 by karuna

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I haven't been a mod here for a while, but it seems to me that we attract some very unwell and vulnerable people. Every once in a while, someone new will post something suggested a miracle cure or that is damning of medication and many of our members will be all over it, only to be disappointed later. We're a site for recovery, and whilst your post was very geared toward that, it was one that didn't cover the medication that frankly, so many of us need and should be on. It really does belong under lifestyle as it comes at the mental illness issue from that angle.

Med compliance is a tough spot here, we have many members who yo yo on and off meds at the slightest encouragement. As a mod I always felt a certain duty of care to make sure that people were being supported in looking after their mental health, not exploited by people who would take anti med stances. That's just me. If people are touchy about dealing with mental health without meds, it's only because we support so many in misery because they aren't med complaint, and because we know ourselves that meds have lifted us out the hole. It's also pretty demoralizing at times to realize you could be doing those things in the article and still be depressed.

I appreciate your article, it's a good one and we need more holistic lifestyle stuff on the site IMHO. But we also need to leave room for people to realize that for a lot of people, medication is key.

Thank you for the explanation. I really don't have any disagreement with anything you've said.

However, I still don't see how eating right, exercising, and getting enough sleep is "an alternative". Everybody should be doing that, whether or not they are taking meds, which is exactly how I framed it in my original post.

I'm taking AD and anti-anxiety meds myself, so I'm certainly not arguing that they are a bad thing. But, they aren't for everybody and I'm not even sure that they should be the first line of defense.

A few hours after Olga moved my topic to this forum, another user posted in the depression forum asking for "self-care" things she could do to ease her depression a little. She probably didn't think to check the "alternative" forum for answers to that question. There isn't any good reason to withhold that kind of information from people when it can't hurt and might help.

Again, thanks for explaining how this place operates in a caring and rational way.

Edited July 26, 2010 by WileE

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WileE, I am a mod on the alternatives forum and I am a huge, huge proponent of helping MI with lifestyle changes. I think things like exercise, etc are mandatory for people with mood disorders. It's as important as other forms of treatment. I would say it is a tossup about where to place your post, but being a lifestyle topic, here is fine. Many people do the "view new posts" thing and where a post is placed is somewhat irrelevant as to who sees it. Sort of.

As I said I could talk about the importance of basic lifestyle management for MI all day long, but for various reasons that kind of thing often doesn't go over well, here or anywhere else. That's been my observation. And that's just how it is.

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WileE, I am a mod on the alternatives forum and I am a huge, huge proponent of helping MI with lifestyle changes. I think things like exercise, etc are mandatory for people with mood disorders. It's as important as other forms of treatment. I would say it is a tossup about where to place your post, but being a lifestyle topic, here is fine. Many people do the "view new posts" thing and where a post is placed is somewhat irrelevant as to who sees it. Sort of.

As I said I could talk about the importance of basic lifestyle management for MI all day long, but for various reasons that kind of thing often doesn't go over well, here or anywhere else. That's been my observation. And that's just how it is.

Back in the 80's, I fell into a clinically depression when my business hit a few rough spots. Somebody dragged me to a doc who decided that my type of depression probably wouldn't respond well to meds. He might have been right because the meds were comparitively primitive 25 years ago. The last thing he said to me was "get active" and that really did help me out of that particular episode. People here agree that everybody is different, so why can't they accept that treatments differ and the responses to various treatments differ?

It seems a bit misguided to lump exercise and nutrition into the same category with magnetic bracelets and ouija boards.

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People here agree that everybody is different, so why can't they accept that treatments differ and the responses to various treatments differ?

It seems a bit misguided to lump exercise and nutrition into the same category with magnetic bracelets and ouija boards.

If you would observe for a few weeks or months before making judgments, you would see that most of us do advocate healthy habits. And while I know Olga can take care of herself, I have to say, that she has been a bit of a den mother, big sister, mother figure to many of us on Crazyboards. Olga's battle cry is eat your vegetables and move your fat ass. (well, that maybe just her message to me in particular heh.)

Your point is truly well taken, and there are just so many topics that there is bound to be some overlap and maybe even stuff placed somewhere when it would work just as well in another forum. We, as a whole, are generally too busy living life and trying to stay sane to split hairs over this kind of stuff.

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It seems a bit misguided to lump exercise and nutrition into the same category with magnetic bracelets and ouija boards.

I think, given the space and categories we have, it is perfectly acceptable to move it where it was moved.

We don't have the specificity that maybe you would prefer, but if we did, no one would find anything.

This is a pro-med site. While we do support and advocate the practice of healthy eating, sleeping, exercise and just general healthy living, we also advocate that people stay on their meds. Since this is a "treatment" focused post, and most of the other treatment boards involve medications, this would be the most appropriate board.

This is helpful to more people than just those who suffer from depression, so it is more appropriate in a board that attracts people who experience various MIs.

I don't know anyone who uses a ouija board to combat MI. I may lack the appropriate exposure to have run into this.

With any course of action, someone is going to be unhappy.

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As I said I could talk about the importance of basic lifestyle management for MI all day long, but for various reasons that kind of thing often doesn't go over well, here or anywhere else. That's been my observation. And that's just how it is.

I didn't come here to try to convince anybody of anything. So, I was caught off gaurd by blowback when I tried to do a good thing.

I think I finally understand how this place operates and why so many people are so sensitive to certain ideas. Thank you.

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WileE, I am a mod on the alternatives forum and I am a huge, huge proponent of helping MI with lifestyle changes. I think things like exercise, etc are mandatory for people with mood disorders. It's as important as other forms of treatment. I would say it is a tossup about where to place your post, but being a lifestyle topic, here is fine. Many people do the "view new posts" thing and where a post is placed is somewhat irrelevant as to who sees it. Sort of.

As I said I could talk about the importance of basic lifestyle management for MI all day long, but for various reasons that kind of thing often doesn't go over well, here or anywhere else. That's been my observation. And that's just how it is.

Sorrel, I have to disagree with you on this. I think talk about the importance of basic lifestyle management for MI goes over well enough here, so long as it's not presented as a reason to go off meds.

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Eh, I don't know. That was more of a general statement. Everywhere, regardless, no one likes to be told anything about exercise and healthy diet and whatever else. Depressed people like it even less. It's universal and we're not exempt here. Sorry.

I'm not sure I understand WileE's point. Because if WileE understands "how this place operates and why so many people are so sensitive to certain ideas" maybe he could explain it to me. Because I certainly don't understand that. Also, I thought I was saying I appreciate what he posted?

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Eh, I don't know. That was more of a general statement. Everywhere, regardless, no one likes to be told anything about exercise and healthy diet and whatever else. Depressed people like it even less. It's universal and we're not exempt here. Sorry.

I'm not sure I understand WileE's point. Because if WileE understands "how this place operates and why so many people are so sensitive to certain ideas" maybe he could explain it to me. Because I certainly don't understand that. Also, I thought I was saying I appreciate what he posted?

No hidden meaning intended. I appreciate somebody trying to explain why everybody is so touchy here. I think I'm starting to get it. And I thanked you for being frank about it.

At first I was wondering whether I had broken some rule, or whether I was being insensitive. Now I understand that a lot of people here are overly sensitive on certain subjects. In the future I won't take it personally.

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However, I still don't see how eating right, exercising, and getting enough sleep is "an alternative". Everybody should be doing that, whether or not they are taking meds, which is exactly how I framed it in my original post.

Erm...true that...although I think a majority of Americans classify as overweight now, and I think less than half get the amount of exercise recommended, and I think something like 40% don't get enough sleep...

Yeah, I hear people who aren't MI say stuff like "If they really wanted to, they could just stop taking those drugs," or "those drugs make you mind-controlled," or other such nonsense. And I go on taking my drugs. But I am defensive. And I don't like being dependent on a series of pills to not think about suicide...didn't take the morning meds today, It's that time of the month, so I thought about shooting myself for a few minutes this evening. Whee. WIll stack a dose when I get home.

(I made the mistake of telling a gun shop owner I was on an antidepressant and he said "if I saw you with a gun, I'd shoot you myself."

So I think it's MUCH better to stay in the padded rubber closet with a lot of people, because that incident still bothers me. At my very worst I'm a do-in-yourselfer, not a danger to others. I'm far too guilt-ridden for that.

And I'm really digressing...)

But there's a big stigma attached to popping pills, and expenses, side effects, and whatnot. We're more afraid around here someone's going to give in to the impulse to stop taking meds and make themselves miserable and/or dead. Or other people dead, in the case of some of the more serious issues.