If you are new to the forums, you must register a free account before you can post. The forums have a separate registration from the rest of www.chronofhorse.com, so your log in information for one will not automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

OH NO! As a dressage person I thought I wouldn't know anything about these horses, I just looked on her website and saw my daughters former jumper, her "heart horse" there! Does anyone know anything about Hawai du Moulin? Fabulous horse! We sold her to another junior rider when my daughter went to college.

There is absolutely no statistical or medical reproductive evidence one way or the other on that thread, just a bunch of opinions and peoples best practices. Many people breed on an every other year cycle and also many do annual. Just like some mares may be hard to get in foal if left open, and others NEED a year off for best reproductive health. As with everything horses, it depends and both situations can and do work.

To just say in all situations that you can't just "rest them a year" or let them take a year off" is phooey. It can be done, and it is done all the time. It may not be the best decision for all mares, but nor is breeding every year for all mares.

"Hell, when I move my things go in boxes and I always make sure and bubble wrap my dog feces so it don't get broke." runwayz

I'm not defending Jill in any way, but you can't just "rest them a year" or let them take a year off". It doesn't work that way. There have been multiple discussions on here and on this board. Older mares need to stay pregnant to keep their fertility. People giving them a year off are NOT doing them any favors.

If they are not maintaining weight or have some other issue, you really have to examine your program and make changes, but giving them a year off only ensures that some of them will never have another pregnancy and we know what happens to those!

I agree somewhat I believe its circumstantial and normally don't have an issue with mares going back to back. HOWEVER we are not talking about mares managed and given the best. It's already been covered that several foals from JB's have been suffering from very large worm loads doubt the mares are parasite free , its been discussed that some of the mares were lacking condition or lame or A-Z. So I don't think normal reproductive notions can be generically applied in this case.

Just an update. I am getting quite a few emails from people that are contacting other authorities and getting responses, both in Canada and the US, such as the state and federal vets, registries etc with their concerns and have confirmation that those authorities are looking at the photo's posted on line etc.

I am working through trying to contact people regarding horses posted on Jill's web site that they say belong to them and have never been on her farm, such as mares with supposed foals and asking to include that material with my other information obtained such as signed contracts etc as it also shows a form or fraud. We have captured web shots of the pages and photos, listings of foal that cannot belong to her that she lists as sold because she doesn't own the mare etc in case she gets wind of it and takes them down.

Just an FYI, this will NOT be a quick process unfortunately. As I noted in the beginning, I am going on 2 years with the guy in IN but we appear to finally be nearing the end of that road and he is now served with papers to either pay up or go to jail, but for those of you waiting with bated breath to see what happens, you can let out your breath and sit down on the sofa with a nice glass of wine LOL.

I will continue to keep this list updated and let you know when the paper work has actually been sent to the AG, and responses etc.

On another note, I have a friend that is a very small but very high quality breeder in CA. I was very surprised to see when I went to the GFF page on Facebook that her farm was listed as a "like". I sent her a private email with a link to this thread and she emailed back almost immediately and was horrified and had "unliked" the page and was passing the link on to others she knows that she also doesn't think is aware of what has been going on. So yes, some of the good we are doing is getting the info out into areas where it has not previously been.

EVERYONE KEEP IT UP.

I have nothing to do with Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm as I own Paso Finos and not hunters like REDWINE.

equinedriver, you are awesome for everything you are doing! I want to do my small part by helping out the Google search.

Here is the discussion on Pop Tart. I looked for it earlier but did not find it before I had to log off. I have to say, the GRAY Fox Farms threads have made interesting reading over the years...

Yes, and her biting remarks in her responses have become quite familiar (and a bit comical).

Poster says (about Pop Tart): "Really cute mare! But, I too have seen her ad. Um, isn't she "broodmare only" because of OCD surgery? Last time I checked, OCD is incredibly hereditary. I don't know if I'd want to buy a foal out of a mare who had OCD so bad that the surgery left her permanently unsound..."

Gray Fox Farms replies: "She doesn't have OCD. There is a reason why your not supposed to xray warmblood yearlings. I had her vetted with xrays and my vet looked at the old xrays also. Many vets don't understand that and I guess you don't either. She is also sound. "

OH. MY. GOD. Someone just alerted me to this thread - I am the OP from the other COTH JILL BURNELL GRAY FOX FARM thread back in February. My mare (thanks to GREAT people from this board) was rescued, complete with police escort from Jill's farm..... it makes me sick to my stomach that the mare was so close to a "dead-chickens-in-the-tub" sub-par existance. WOW.

So call me crazy, but what if she is breeding mares that aren't listed on the website, advertising the foals coming from the "nice" mares you see on the site, which I have read some don't exist on her farm. The foals have to come from a mare. It wouldn't surprise me after all the stories I have seen.
Basically pulling a bait and switch... Has every mare on the website been accounted for on her property?

Also California has really good anti-cruelty laws, has anyone called the local animal control out to her property?

So call me crazy, but what if she is breeding mares that aren't listed on the website, advertising the foals coming from the "nice" mares you see on the site, which I have read some don't exist on her farm. The foals have to come from a mare. It wouldn't surprise me after all the stories I have seen.
Basically pulling a bait and switch...

Hence the many recommendations that people verify the parentage of their young horses from GFF via DNA.

2006,the year Grand Affair retired the Upperville Posh Trophy she almost died. Her resilience and strength was never so evident then when she won the broodmare championship an unprecedented fourth time just four months after her hospitization. She was never to be the same again. She physically can't sustain year after year pregnancies... That's why I am so concerned. She deserved a year off and should be given a Well Earned Rest.

Sadly TWF, I think it is unlikely she will be given a year off based on the "puppy mill" mentality there. I think the only way that will happen is if she doesn't get pregnant or doesn't stay pregnant. They are just "walking uteri" to JB. I don't think there is any emotion attached at all.

"grayfox has been on this forum for a while now and been in the breeding business for years. never once have i ever heard anything negative about her or her operation. just the opposite, i constantly hear/read great things about her and her breeding operation."

"I highly doubt that greyfox would buy a horse that could pass on a condition to use as a broodmare."

because we all know that grayfox knows what the heck she is doing and wouldn't have gotten to where she is today if she didn't

"questioning the average horse owner like most of the members on this forum is very different from questioning a well known and respected breeder"

"unlike many people on this forum i suspect Jill has a life and devotes more of her time to the actual care of her horses and her business than she does to this forum."

AND, even after it is proven that JB lied through her teeth about the OCD surgery, people then get behind her and explain why it is ok to breed a horse who has had OCD surgery.

Does anyone have a membership on that board? might be good to update that old thread with a link to this one as a gift from the COTH meanies.

AND, even after it is proven that JB lied through her teeth about the OCD surgery, people then get behind her and explain why it is ok to breed a horse who has had OCD surgery.

Just like she lies through her teeth about Redwine's EVA status and how he is going to clear it from his system on his own. Or how mare owners don't need to vaccinate their mares prior to breeding to him because the semen will "vaccinate" them.

Also noticed that the "warning" entries on Gray Fox Farm FB page are gone. Can anyone confirm that??

I too read that entire thread on "TOB" and was amazed how they jumped all over anyone who dared to "question the great GFF!!" But just like the Wizzard of Oz, once you pull back the curtain, the truth is revealled....

Our horses know our secrets; we braid our tears into their manes and whisper our hopes into their ears.

Also noticed that the "warning" entries on Gray Fox Farm FB page are gone. Can anyone confirm that??

I too read that entire thread on "TOB" and was amazed how they jumped all over anyone who dared to "question the great GFF!!" But just like the Wizzard of Oz, once you pull back the curtain, the truth is revealled....

Originally Posted by sketcher

Priceless quotes from the above thread:

"grayfox has been on this forum for a while now and been in the breeding business for years. never once have i ever heard anything negative about her or her operation. just the opposite, i constantly hear/read great things about her and her breeding operation."

"I highly doubt that greyfox would buy a horse that could pass on a condition to use as a broodmare."

because we all know that grayfox knows what the heck she is doing and wouldn't have gotten to where she is today if she didn't

"questioning the average horse owner like most of the members on this forum is very different from questioning a well known and respected breeder"

"unlike many people on this forum i suspect Jill has a life and devotes more of her time to the actual care of her horses and her business than she does to this forum."

AND, even after it is proven that JB lied through her teeth about the OCD surgery, people then get behind her and explain why it is ok to breed a horse who has had OCD surgery.

Does anyone have a membership on that board? might be good to update that old thread with a link to this one as a gift from the COTH meanies.

We own a vBulletin forum (which is what COTH is). Not 100% sure, but I think that when counting views to a thread, vBulletin recognizes return viewers and will not register them in the viewer count for some period of time (maybe 5 days, something like that). So the 205,000 views to this thread are roughly 205, 000 distinct individuals who have seen this thread. That, in and of itself, is amazing. Reading sketchers post above, in the context of what appears to be true, makes me cringe. Unless all those supportive comments were simply alters, it seems that the public perception of GFF did not even remotely match reality. In many ways it is refreshing that so many people here got involved to say, “Enough already! We will not be silent any more about what is going on.” I think that took a lot of courage… especially early on when the tide seemed to be so against them. Kudos to all of you. At the very least, roughly 200,000 people are aware of what is going on.

Also noticed that the "warning" entries on Gray Fox Farm FB page are gone. Can anyone confirm that??

I too read that entire thread on "TOB" and was amazed how they jumped all over anyone who dared to "question the great GFF!!" But just like the Wizzard of Oz, once you pull back the curtain, the truth is revealled....

She deletes them when she signs in. She deletes any comments she does not like, including the ones from clients asking her to call them back because they cannot reach her. I would recommend re-posting the link to this thread everytime it disappears and continue to report her pages as spam/scams to facebook

I just wanted to chime in in support of people coming forward and making these posts. If it were not for the "Pop Tart" thread I probably would have ended up with a baby from her. I have a beautiful Redwine filly that I ended up buying from a breeder here on COTH. When I read that thread I knew immediately something was up with her program. This was 2010 and I was going to buy the "All the Above" foal inutero. When I talked to Jill, I asked her what she thought about the different crosses and what she felt the mares were going to produce, etc. I have talked to many dog and horse breeders who are excited to talk about their what they are breeding and give an incredible amount of information. She was completely laxidasical in her answers. That was my second flag. So in short, I am so glad I didn't deal with her directly. I know my filly came from a great place with a breeder that takes fantastic care of her horses. I wasn't worried at all from the time she hit the ground. Keep it up. I hope she gets what she deserves.