who likes the occult /mystery teachings but can't bring themselves to join like minded individuals?

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
I get what you are saying though, it is as worthless to give what is not sought after, as it is to receive what you do not know you need. Certain
things must be discovered by the seeker, and cannot be shown by the ones who see them. That is true.

and with these two sentences, you have uncovered what so many still worry about. The secrets aren't secret because they are purposely kept from
anyone, they just have to be requested, so the ones giving them know the initiate is ready to receive them.

I do hope that one day you feel drawn to the fraternity. You sound like you would make a fine mason.

Well I have learned to never say never and to allow myself to grow, free of my preconceptions of the world and even those I might have about myself. I
can't say I am even similar to the person I was 5 years ago, let alone 10 or more.

Maybe later on down the road I will find myself walking into a get together and asking for a warm seat at the table.

as Heliophant described it, maybe I will get hungry after my long walk.

Thanks by the way.
You guys seem like good company, and that is hard to come by.

interesting choice of personalities. One a proponent of balance, the other a dabbler with chaos.

The scientist/ clinician...who used instinctive logic to name the parts of the mind....give form and definition to it...a system...

The other a master of the truths of a system he ultimately might not have completely understood. Thus leading to his "sin". His disloyalty to the one
hand that empowered his.

As far as Carl Jung.....he was not at odds with anything, as I have come to understand things ( I might be off)
But the whole story of the bible, and especially Jesus in the NT, is a system for teaching, for passing along truth.
He can appreciate Jesus, and the message he conveys.

While the particulars of the story might get misplaced and changed over time to better convey the lesson to the intended audience, the story is
irrelevant in so much as it is a tool to teach. The dove, the ram....interchangeable really. TRANSFORMATION being the key. The noble locust, a
blessing, not a curse. The butterfly.

Jung might have seen the ultimate truth of Jesus and because of dedication and diligence saw the parallels in the alternate versions of the story. We
are talking system here. Like code for a computer to run. The application might be different but the system is similar. The language is changed, names
/characters , places, details, ect.

Solomon, is a huge topic. I am still learning.....but I will say this.

Balance.....it is key to transformation. You don't want too much locust and not enough butterfly....You get what you seek.

What is the end result you seek? A destination...finite and fixed or a flowing point, altitude, view?.....a true you, new you...?....or a two
you.....unified or divided, you can have order or chaos. OR adapt with both.

Dude, the more you talk, the more you sound like a Mason! haha! It is apparent that you are right on the precipice of understanding. I will say that
I petitioned after having already done years of research into these kinds of topics. I felt enlightened as it was. So I was surprised when I went
thru the degrees, heard some of the same things I thought I knew, but explained and connected in ways I had never thought of.

If you want to build a rocket, you can build one. But you'll build a much better one much faster if you research the history of spaceflight first
and work closely with engineers from JPL.

The same concept applies to enlightenment. You can get there on your own, but you can be sure you're getting to the right place and get there faster
if you surround yourself with people that have been doing the same thing for millennia.

Anyways, cheers to you for your thread and your ways of thinking. I truly hope you find your light.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
I would like to think that my occasional interest in occult/esoteric teachings is more academic than most, and that I'm nowhere near as fuzzy-headed,
creepy and generally odd as other people I see interested in it. I have no particular desire to associate myself with a bunch of weirdos who think
they can overcome their social ineptitude and gain power with the help of demons or alchemy.

On the other hand, perhaps I have an inflated opinion of myself, and I'm just as creepy and weird as those other people.

you pretty well spelled out my position...

i find the men & women really into the occult as extremely weird... most are superficial in doing rituals & stuff that results in just another comedy
of execution...

i find after a mere 10 minutes of mindful interchange that the charlatans that might have black cowls & fancy 'snake' or 'skull' rings that they
are shallow minded & useless eaters....at best

i have a beer with most people introduced as Occultists, go the rest room, then leave

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
I get what you are saying though, it is as worthless to give what is not sought after, as it is to receive what you do not know you need. Certain
things must be discovered by the seeker, and cannot be shown by the ones who see them. That is true.

and with these two sentences, you have uncovered what so many still worry about. The secrets aren't secret because they are purposely kept from
anyone, they just have to be requested, so the ones giving them know the initiate is ready to receive them.

I do hope that one day you feel drawn to the fraternity. You sound like you would make a fine mason.

How does one go about requesting this and how is it decided that you are ready? Thanks for your help!

Similar to you in that I have always been interested in occult and ancient teachings. I regard occultism as just ancient Science and I have always had
an interest in Science too.

Many years ago I joined A.M.O.R.C and was fairly disappointed by the lack of knowledge in the occult. Really its not worth joining, nothing within the
teachings you couldn't learn from a book. I found that many members were there just because they delight in being a member of a secret society or do
it for social reasons. Any of those who did have a deep knowledge of the occult had achieved it off their own back and had little to do with being a
member.

I believe the same applies to speculative freemasonry, in any case it seems that eastern schools such as those based in India and Tibet have a deeper
knowledge in the occult than any western tradition. You could learn more about occultism from reading madam Blavatsky books then being a member of the
Rosicrucian or Freemasons.

I also came to the understanding that the deeper teachings of these society's have been removed, it occurred around the same time as "speculative"
freemasonry appeared and "operative" freemasonry disappeared. That is an interesting conspiracy just by itself

Originally posted by LUXUS
Any of those who did have a deep knowledge of the occult had achieved it off their own back and had little to do with being a member.

But this
is true of any organization, in my experience. The people who know stuff are the people who bother trying to learn stuff.

You could learn more about occultism from reading madam Blavatsky books then being a member of the Rosicrucian or Freemasons.

There's
nothing stopping a Rosicrucian or a Freemason from reading Blavatsky too, if that's where their interests lie. Just as there's nothing stoping a
non-Mason from reading Morals & Dogma. The information is there for anyone to glean. Formal "Masonry" is just one structured system of
the presentation of the material. But the material itself has been around forever.

How many people here are like me in that they enjoy the occult, mystery school teachings, and ancient wisdom in general, but cannot align themselves
to ever join a fraternity/ sorority like the masons, or whatever?

I truly enjoy the occult, I find myself gravitating towards the teachings, and tend to really get along with their members, have some good friends
that are masons for example, but I can't ever see myself joining if it were offered.

by understanding what I was referring to and not the definition you found that is at odds with what I was referring to..........

I would refer you to this......

Nit-Picking
chop logic To argue, dispute, or to pettifog, to bandy words; split hairs. This expression, which dates from 1525, is most likely an extension of the
now obsolete meaning of chop ‘barter, trade, or exchange.’ Shakespeare used the noun form chop-logic in Romeo and Juliet:

nit-pick To be overly concerned with picayune details; to look for inconsequential errors, often to the point of obsessiveness. A nit is the egg or
larva of a louse or other parasitic insect. The task of removing all the nits from an infected person or animal can be almost overwhelming as it
requires a millimeter-by-millimeter examination with a magnifying glass and tweezers. By extension, a pedantic person immersed in
minutiae is often called a nit-picker.

How many people here are like me in that they enjoy the occult, mystery school teachings, and ancient wisdom in general, but cannot align
themselves to ever join a fraternity/ sorority like the masons, or whatever?

I am like you, in that respect. Always curious, always wanting to know hidden knowledge, and even forbidden knowledge. Never went to college, but was
asked twice to join a secret society, the last time by the Grand Master himself, after reading some of my posts in this forum. I declined,
respectfully. Of course, when I was a Biker, I was asked to join a club, but turned that down too. Too independent, I reckon. No clubs, gangs, sects,
cults, or societies for me.

I truly enjoy the occult, I find myself gravitating towards the teachings....

My dilemma is the oaths you must take to secrecy. I take my oaths very seriously. You could make me take an oath in which I had to protect the
fact that the world would end, and I wouldn't even find a reed hut to talk to to warn people.

Oaths? I have taken two in my life. The first in the Military, the oath to "Defend and Protect the Constitution." The second never to let whiskey
touch my lips again. I take them both very seriously.

If I can help people to learn what I have learned, pass along the little I know about life and love, and whatever, I would be ashamed to not be
able to do so freely.

Just do it, like I do. There is no real secret information here, all is available for those who want to know. All except perhaps classified stuff, and
even that is not beyond reach if one knows how.

You don't have to join a group to study things occult. Indeed if the idea repels you. Don't do it. I am going to point out that there are a
significant number of non oath bound groups out there.

I've been a member of the OTO, Golden Dawn (well one of the schism groups), an was a Druid Lodge member in my youth. I left, and found that I gained
more from other groups. I'm a Neopagan (reconstructionsist) so I gain more from group spirituality, and the occult bits done on my own, than I do from
politics which pollutes many of the "occult only" groups lurking out there.

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