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GOG.com is a digital distribution platform – an online store with a curated selection of games, an optional gaming client giving you freedom of choice, and a vivid community of gamers.
All of this born from a deeply rooted love for games, utmost care about customers, and a belief that you should own the things you buy.

What is GOG.com about?

Hand-picking the best in gaming. A selection of great games, from modern hits to all-time classics, that you really shouldn’t miss.

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RWarehall: I've explained myself. I've explained specifically how unlikely I find it that scum, not being totally sure a PM was sent, can follow through based on that to talk about Drealmer. I believe that the insight about Drealmer can only realistically come from someone who received said PM and thought, "I bet Drealmer didn't got one of these".

It's one thing to second-guess after the fact that its an easy conclusion to make. I know I didn't think about it and I made nothing out of my lack of a PM.

You're right, it is easy to second guess it. Maybe he's actually legit, but I'm not willing to write him off as solid town based on just this observation, and I've explained why.

RWarehall: Why would scum risk themselves on such a hunch? Specifically when... 1) One is not currently pressed to be lynched... 2) One cannot be absolutely sure PRs were sent such a PM.

1) So he has something that looks like he is contributing to the game. He's under some suspicion, from me at least, for floating.

2) Unless he's a scum PR; maybe some kind of ninja or janitor? Even if he is vanilla scum, scum do have to take some risks, and this is a small one. He's made an observation that currently isn't verifiable, and he hasn't offered much of anything else to show he's town.

RWarehall: I have to wonder why you are so hellbent on JMich. ... I also don't see why you are so insistent that JMich needs to provide us anything more.

Multiple reasons, chief among them I'm trying to get JMich to be more active in the game. I'm not going to call him town for a single observation about a dead player.

Can a stronger case be made that JMich is town than "claims to have gotten a PM at the start of N1"? I've asked this question of you more than once. For that matter, its an open question that anyone can answer. Such a case doesn't even have to deal with PMs.

RWarehall: It makes me wonder if you are trying to cover for someone.

Who would I be trying to cover for? Cristi and Sage have basically zero pressure being applied. I'm actively fighting with you, I've already been on Gamma's case, and of course I'm not going to advocate lynching myself. Everyone else is dead.

RWarehall: As to whether we are at MyLo or not, given the likelihood of 2 scum and I know my own alignment and I'm town, with flips and random chance, Drealmer is scum 2 out of 6 Or in other words, 2/3rds chance that we are indeed at MyLo. I don't like discounting majority odds.

This is fair, and I'm fine with this. I'm currently assuming worst case (workable) scenario as well.

Bookwyrm627: You can't be certain that those with a PR did get a PM about taking their night action.

Sage103082: They do.

I have been keeping quiet because the only information I gained from the night action I took was that scum have the ability to hide their actions. I feel that right now all we are doing is fighting with each other and not working together. I am hoping that this information can be used to help us move forward and work together.

And now we're getting somewhere again. Is anyone willing to add to this?

Also, Sage, who (besides me) do you think is scum?

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Yip Yip

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I'm still catching up. I learned from last game that a Bookwyrm/RW clash is reason to take notice.

@Bookwyrm - Is this the same feeling from last game? Do you see a difference?

@RWarehall - Basically the same question, recognizing the roles may be reversed.

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cristigale: @Bookwyrm - Is this the same feeling from last game? Do you see a difference?

It does feel very similar. Last game RW tried to discredit me without actually dealing with my arguments. Likewise, in this game he isn't taking the open-ended questions I've offered to try and build an actual argument against my arguments.

What cases he has laid out has generally been (in my mind, at least) based on scant and poor evidence in this game, which is NOT what I expect from a town RW. I expect town RW to be proactive about scum hunting.

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Notation: I'm waiting on Cristi to finish catching up and add to the game.

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cristigale

Yip Yip

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Basically, I said just the opposite. The fact that no one else made a move on Gamma leads me to believe he wasn't on the brink.

RWarehall: I've seen posts like #231 before. Look busy, look townly. Also conveniently leaving out the possibility Drealmer was scum. And the tin foil hat conspiracy theory that I planned the whole thing out to create that fast mislynch...

Vote Cristigale

I've noted Trent's suggestion of an all girl team, I sure don't see anything wrong with Sage's posts, but I don't get the same feel from Cristigale.

(emphasis added) How convenient that you managed to ignore what I said in the previous post.

cristigale: I don't get the push back from either here or from RWarehall on Gamma's comment about a NS. If we are in MYLO, then we lose if we lynch a NS (apart from well-played NA) assuming a 2 player scum team still remains. I don't see how we have the leeway of lynching a NS today.

cristigale: We could be in a MYLO situation. 6 players, with a likely 2-player scum team. If we mis-lynch, we likely lose apart from well played night actions. We lost some amount of NA with trent. We can rule out an existing 3 person scum team - otherwise, the game should be over, right? A 3 player team also seems scum-heavy in a 9 player setting. We don't know drealmer's alignment. I think scum-drealmer would have been more involved. My guess is that drealmer was town. If he was scum, we are in a better position, but I don't think we should bank on that.

RWarehall: And the tin foil hat conspiracy theory that I planned the whole thing out to create that fast mislynch...

WTH? Where did I say anything like that??

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Yip Yip

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Sage103082: First I think your banking way to much on this game being so similar to last stalker game.

@Sage – Do you believe this game is not so similar to the last one?

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Yip Yip

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I started that last post several times, had multiple questions, and ultimately scrapped everything. There is so much I want to ask but I'm not sure it is wise to ask it.

So in the recent posts: 1. JMich claims a PR N1, but does not provide any info 2. Bookwyrm is asking why 3. Most of the back and forth between RW/Bookwyrm is a result of this 4. Sage claims a PR N1, but provides limited info

I think JMich is likely town. I don't think scum-JMich fakes it in that way.

Which narrows my possible scum pool down to Bookwyrm, RWarehall, and Gamma. Gamma/Bookwyrm is one of my possible pairs. Problem is, of those three, RWarehall feels the scummiest. But if I had to guess a partner for RWarehall it, would be JMich. Arrr...I need to clear my head.

@JMich - What are your thoughts on RWarehall and Gamma?

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Sage103082

Kitten Tamer

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Sage103082: First I think your banking way to much on this game being so similar to last stalker game.

cristigale: @Sage – Do you believe this game is not so similar to the last one?

Yes, it is similar but yet different. It is not a direct copy of the last stalker game. Somethings have changed.

**** I went to possible co-sign for a car today and ended up not needing to cosign and somehow ended up buying a new car. So after spending all day and evening at the dealership I am finally home and going to get food and then bed. I will be back on tomorrow and catch up on what I missed today.***

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RWarehall

Ja'loja!

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If you want to know why I'm focused on Cristigale, look at posts 230 and 231. These are the firsts posts in the game that smell really scummy to me.

The arguments in 230 seem twisted to pass shade. Implications that this wagon is necessarily scummy even going so far as to claim that no fast lynch means its a bad wagon and scum just has to be on it. And this is the part where I am noting the complete absence of consideration on how Drealmer fits into the equation.

Then post 231, the same issue again ignoring the possibility the Drealmer might be scum. I very WIFOMy list of "all" scum pairs (note the lack of Drealmer possibly being scum. And again a directed attack based on some very arbitrary parameters.

I've been a little thrown off by having my early scum leans die D1/N1 and it seems everyone else is playing very tight. I think I have something on Gamma, but Gamma defends it well. I start questioning in my mind that it could be JMich despite what felt day 1 towny to me and he gives me reason to believe he's probably town. I found no fault with Sage all game, before what looks like good for her being town.

Even Cristi's play I might lean a little towny in other games, but those two posts and just the general directed kamakase attacks on players all game are the scummiest things I see in the game.

But as I ponder it further, my lack of solid reads, it dawns on me...maybe there really is enough there.

Cristi did it with the candlestick in the library and the reason I cannot find a partner is Drealmer was it. This is my probably way too early to pronounce scum team.

The biggest problem to me is when I see what appears to be a long intricate post, detailing a vast array of possibilities and the overall logic seems stretched and the possibility of Drealmer being scum is completely missing. I don't think that is a coincidence, I think Cristi is trying to mislead us. Lock it in!

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Lifthrasil

Right in the Roke!

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*********************************************** In the night, the Red Forest is rather black and after a time, you begin to wonder whether you have lost your way. Nonetheless it's time to take a census, who is suspecting whom. ***********************************************

Lynch occurs at 4 votes and Bookwyrm is at L-2 Not voting: cristigale ************************************************

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Yip Yip

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RWarehall: If you want to know why I'm focused on Cristigale, look at posts 230 and 231. These are the firsts posts in the game that smell really scummy to me.

Wow, RWarehall ignores what I've said about drealmer. And keeps twisting/exaggerating to fit his purpose. Let's run through this to see it in action...

(emphasis added throughout)

RWarehall: The arguments in 230 seem twisted to pass shade. Implications that this wagon is necessarily scummy even going so far as to claim that no fast lynch means its a bad wagon and scum just has to be on it. And this is the part where I am noting the complete absence of consideration on how Drealmer fits into the equation.

No, I didn't imply or claim the wagon itself had to be scummy, this is what I said: "Gamma is at L-2 and still alive. That suggest to me that either Gamma or one of the players on his wagon are scum." I said either/or and included Gamma in my possible scum pairs.

RWarehall: The arguments in 230 seem twisted to pass shade. Implications that this wagon is necessarily scummy even going so far as to claim that no fast lynch means its a bad wagon and scum just has to be on it. And this is the part where I am noting the complete absence of consideration on how Drealmer fits into the equation.

I addressed this in my first reply, but RWarehall chose to ignore it. I stated my assumptions in 230, specifically I said: "assuming a 2 player scum team still remains". That implies that I am assuming drealmer was town. Which is not a "complete absence of consideration".

In my first reply, I also linked to my initial position on drealmer: "We don't know drealmer's alignment. I think scum-drealmer would have been more involved. My guess is that drealmer was town. If he was scum, we are in a better position, but I don't think we should bank on that." I was not considering options where drealmer is scum because I think it is unlikely and it's a risk to play that way. RWarehall made a similar observation (a mathematical take on the risk involved) here.

RWarehall: Then post 231, the same issue again ignoring the possibility the Drealmer might be scum. I very WIFOMy list of "all" scum pairs (note the lack of Drealmer possibly being scum. And again a directed attack based on some very arbitrary parameters.

Post 231 I started with this: "Following from my last post, " I am continuing with the thoughts/positions from post 230. Given the assumptions, there is no reason to mention drealmer.

RWarehall: Then post 231, the same issue again ignoring the possibility the Drealmer might be scum. I very WIFOMy list of "all" scum pairs (note the lack of Drealmer possibly being scum. And again a directed attack based on some very arbitrary parameters.

RWarehall: Then post 231, the same issue again ignoring the possibility the Drealmer might be scum. I very WIFOMy list of "all" scum pairs (note the lack of Drealmer possibly being scum. And again a directed attack based on some very arbitrary parameters.

@Rwarehall - Where was the first "directed attack"? I don't see it mentioned. And what are the " very arbitrary parameters"?

RWarehall: Even Cristi's play I might lean a little towny in other games, but those two posts and just the general directed kamakase attacks on players all game are the scummiest things I see in the game.

@RWarehall - So, I assume that you consider my vote on Bookwyrm a "kamakase attack". Where else have I done this? What other player(s)? All game??

Also, please answer this earlier question from your vote: (I added the first part of the paragraph back in to make it easier to identify)

RWarehall: I've seen posts like #231 before. Look busy, look townly. Also conveniently leaving out the possibility Drealmer was scum. And the tin foil hat conspiracy theory that I planned the whole thing out to create that fast mislynch...

cristigale: WTH? Where did I say anything like that??

This is a complete fabrication. I never said anything close to that.

Vote RWarehall

There may be some OMGUS to this, but I'm not sure how else to read it. I'm not sure who his partner is (wouldn't it be ironic if it was drealmer, I still doubt it).

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Right in the Roke!

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****************************************************** Just as cristigale finally has had enough and decides to cast her vote too, a thunder rolls in the distance. The nightly sky lights up in a low, reddish light. But it is not dawn. It is the unnaturaly energy of another Emission that is gathering in the sky. Exactly that kind of energy, that you are going to clear the sky from! But for now, it means that a threat to your lives is approaching and you begin to seek shelter. Somewhere around here is supposed to be a cave. Probably inhabited by some mutant animal, but that can be changed. While you are trying to find your way towards the cave through undergrowth and anomalies, you keep on talking. At least one among you is still a murderous traitor. One who could kill again at night, if you share a shelter with him or her. ******************************************************

NOTE: I'll be gone for a while and then only have spotty internet. No, I'm not going to say how long (that would defeat the point of the unknown deadline), but it might be that I'm not around to close the Day immediately when / if you hammer. But the hammer will still be valid. No amount of unvoting afterwards can undo that! (In rule terms: as soon as you achieve a hammer, Twilight starts)

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ADD Jumping Bean

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RWarehall: Cristi did it with the candlestick in the library and the reason I cannot find a partner is Drealmer was it. This is my probably way too early to pronounce scum team.

So much for me being her partner:

RWarehall: Personally, I have the least confidence right now in Cristigale as town. Gamma has defended himself well and I would probably take you, Bookwyrm, next.

Or for discounting majority odds:

RWarehall: As to whether we are at MyLo or not, given the likelihood of 2 scum and I know my own alignment and I'm town, with flips and random chance, Drealmer is scum 2 out of 6 Or in other words, 2/3rds chance that we are indeed at MyLo. I don't like discounting majority odds.

Anyway.

RWarehall: Lock it in!

I'm on it!

Unvote JMich. Vote RWarehall.

-----

Not enough time to pursue some other things I wanted to pursue.

Gamma, now is the time to weigh in. Like, right now.

Sage, you too.

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JMich

A Horrible Human Person. If you need me, chat.

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IRL was a bit demanding last two days, hoping I can answer wyrm's (and others) questions by this evening. I am almost certain that Sage is town though, and she should be almost certain I am as well. So that would count for the "Verify as town" part I said a few days back, even if it doesn't verify it for everyone.

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JMich: IRL was a bit demanding last two days, hoping I can answer wyrm's (and others) questions by this evening. I am almost certain that Sage is town though, and she should be almost certain I am as well. So that would count for the "Verify as town" part I said a few days back, even if it doesn't verify it for everyone.