Yep, really. You want to question motives of the posters in a MABS thread?
Go ahead, you now have your own thread. The other thread is for TGF to answer questions if he so chooses. If you want to help, by providing information, go ahead. if you are going to change the direction, by using the "look in the mirror tactic," here you go..

Tao Gung Fu
Is a new style started in 2009 there is no claim whatsoever to have any links with any other Linage. I teach what I have learned and find credible over the years. I don’t claim any title or rank. I am just a practitioner seeking to improve myself and pass on what I believe. Kerim
Read more at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...JRiGppVJ8wd.99

I am taken aback by your last post .... Mate, well done! It takes a big person to say what you did and you did it with honour.

Often these things can be clearly resolved once the the opportunity arises for open and honest communications.

Mate where are you located? I ask because each year in March I host a Martial Arts, Health & Fitness Festival and we would like to open it up to as many people, instructors and schools as we can! Its free and totally non-profit. Any and all monies made goes to charity. In involves each school manning an information table, doing a display of their art and teaching a short workshop on a subject of their choosing ... running over two days it's just a nice way to bring people together.

I operate my own school of Chinese Gongfu here in my home town. I had contacted Kerim among other people as I host a yearly Martial Arts, Health & Fitness Festival (all completely free) every year in March. So my initial contact came in that way.

We had communicated via email back and forth and I invited Kerim to a course my school was running on "The Way Within" dealing with some of my associaties giving lectures and training in TaiJi, Qigong, White Crane Gongfu, Shiatsu etc. Kerim and one of his teachers made the 4 to 5 hour trip to attend and participate in this workshop. He was very respectful, well skilled and versed in understanding of the Martial Arts and talked openly about his history within the Martial Arts and hid nothing. He also talked about trying to walk his own path unencumbered by the past.

1/. What belt(s) or other certifications does Mr. Kerim Schaber hold in Kung Fu or in any other Martial Art?

* You should contact him about that!

2) When and from whom were each of these received?

* See Above.

3) What method of qualifying led to the award of each of these?

* See Above.

4) On what basis is Mr. Schaber entitled to train, test, and award ranks to, students in Kung Fu?

* See Above (although he, as the founder and originator of that which he teaches would mean that he is his own judge on this matter?)

My questions:

A/. What in the Blue Hell does his ranks have to do with anything? Any rank helfd by any individual is only truly relevant to themselves and the instructor who awarded same.

B/. What does it matter who his teacher was? Would it not be more pertinent as to what he teaches and how he teaches it now?

In questioning his "rank" and right to teach, can each of you please supply info about your own rank thus demonstrating your ability to stand in judgement of another?

And ask him directly. Then you can report back to this thread with some form of actual information .... just an idea.

Your questions are intentionally ignorant in my opinion. Why you are doing that? I don't know. You think rank is only relevant to the teacher and student? Wrong. It is relevant so that I know you are qualified to teach me. I don't want to learn Taiji from someone who has less experience than me. Why should I? What if he learned the form a month ago, then he only has superficial knowledge of the form.

Why does his teacher matter? Some teachers teach Taiji for health only. Some use it in San Da competitions. You cant learn San Da from the health only teacher. So tell me who your teacher is, what your liniage is, and I'll know if we are a good match.

Clarity is the issue. If you are open that you learned kickboxing from the Bas Rutten tapes a few months ago, then cool. At least I know. But don't say you trained in Thailand for 5 years. That is bullshit. Same thing for kung fu, BJJ, TKD, anything.

Oh, and most of us list our training experience in our profiles somewhere. And some of us have training log which goes into pretty good detail.

Okay so your in Oz ...Good for you so what is your stake in all this, Does Kerim present some form of competition for you, your teach and style? Are you located in his area and therefore in some form of competition with him?

In general, the stake is knowledge that instructors are qualified in the field they are teaching; they are able to prove this through whom they learnt from, and what their rank is in the art or in other arts. Don’t mistake this to mean it makes them a ‘good’ teacher, just that it ‘qualifies’ them to have enough knowledge to teach what they are teaching.

This creates a foundation to base a consumer decision off: “This teacher has learnt from <X>, he holds <XY> rank from <X> in art <A>. I can look this up, or contact someone to verify this claim, if correct, I can decide on this basis that what I am purchasing (martial arts instruction) is from someone qualified to provide such a purchase.”

He could not hold a high rank, cool, this would seem a bit weird, but as you said maybe he has awesome skills and is under ranked, just state it so I can make an informed decision as a consumer.

If he doesn’t hold a high rank, and has NO RANK under NO MASTER in ANY STYLE and then made his OWN STYLE, this is a massive red flag: from whence does his experience come to create a new style and proclaim himself master? From experience within this community this is used from martial art frauds and fakes since forever.

Originally Posted by shifu

Now here's a real telling remark:

THAT is the reason bullshido.net asks about lineage, because people with no credentials are taking money from LEGITIMATE martial artists.

See this is the difference between you and me, I don't give a proverbial rats arse about "money" ... if money is all that matters in the martial arts then for fucks sake man, let me off the planet as I care deeply, passionately about the heart, essence and spirit of the arts not how much "money" I can make of "customers"

I think you mistake the statement of ‘legitimate martial artist’ with your own concept and insecurities of ‘what makes a legitimate martial artist’ as a philosophical question, when it’s one of empirical evidence and certification.

Legitimate martial arts instructors would be able to fill out boxes: what art(s) have you studied; who are/were your teacher(s); how long did you train in said art(s) and under said teacher(s); what rank(s) do you hold in said arts under said teachers; how did you create and validate the system you created?

This leads credence to the fact a martial arts instructor has knowledge, training, and skill enough to develop a system that he calls his own, and creates a foundation of trust for consumers.

Your view on ‘money’ having no place in martial arts is great, but we’ve seen time and time again how so called ‘Masters’ create a style, lure in members which pay money to learn something that is not real, and not developed by anyone that has the knowledge, skill, or ability to be teaching anything of the sort JUST TO MAKE MONEY—but as it’s your view it has no relevance to the questions asked about Kerim.

Originally Posted by shifu

Also please enlighten me as to what exactly is a blah blah blah it’s about the soul, blah, the love, blah, passion etc etc et al ergo sum … (all fine, but this is completely off the point)
Anyhow I've taken up too much of my important time on this already. I judge people on what they do, not on their rank, their lineage and or who much damn money they can make from their "customers"

Anyhow I've contacted Kerim as stated above (even though you said I wouldn't ..... wrong!) ... If he decides to come on this board and answer you then great. If not, it changes nothing, proves nothing so why get yourself all bent out of shape over it unless you have a personal stake or agenda in all of this???

Now, the important thing here is what you say above (my bolding in quote) “I judge people on what they do, not on their rank, their lineage and or who much damn money they can make from their "customers”: we’re not JUDGING based on rank/lineage, this is just a basis for credibility and where he came from to where he is. He should be able to answer this LIKE ANY PERSON THAT WANTS TO INSTRUCT IN ANYTHING; it has to be based off evidence that proves you are capable of doing this.

‘shifu’ you are very defensive to questions that are only simple, and move to tangents and walls of text E.G. outlining your view of what constitutes the philosophical nature of a ‘legitimate martial artist’ instead of “I don’t know, sorry.”

Don’t suspend rational thought because it’s scary or hard to do. Confront the fear and unknown to find answers that are grounded in reality and not occluded by the shadows of vague statements and mythological assertions there for the only purpose to mislead instead of inform.

It's also a bit rich for a person who operates a tax-advantaged business structure to maximise the benefit of their onsite, distance and DVD training cetnre to pass judgement on others for being concerned with money.

‘shifu’ you are very defensive to questions that are only simple, and move to tangents and walls of text E.G. outlining your view of what constitutes the philosophical nature of a ‘legitimate martial artist’ instead of “I don’t know, sorry.”