I didnt understand a thing.this graph shows that people under 58.000 pay 17%, and people under the next level that pays 14%, and people above 11%, so there is a parcel of population that pays more in a comparative percentage and that's is the problem.

Animal Ethics: "I tremble for my species when I reflect that god is just." Thomas Jefferson.

I didnt understand a thing.this graph shows that people under 58.000 pay 17%, and people under the next level that pays 14%, and people above 11%, so there is a parcel of population that pays more in a comparative percentage and that's is the problem.

If you notice the most that is being paid is 27% from the top 1% of earners. You also need to look how the graphs slides to the next level. The $58,000 range pays 9% the $85,000 pays 17%

So yes, the tax system is fucked thanks for noticing. This is why most of us have been in favor of a new tax system. As a single man with no dependents I get to pay the top end of taxes at my pay scale. Stupid me, I should go out find me a trailer park diva with 15 kids and quit my job and let Obama and friends take care of me.

You mentioned before that Brazil has something about human dignity in the constitution. Human dignity is being a productive member of society. Working and doing what's expected, without living on a handout from the Government. Dignity is accomplishing something that you yourself has done, and not given to you.

You mentioned before that Brazil has something about human dignity in the constitution. Human dignity is being a productive member of society. Working and doing what's expected, without living on a handout from the Government. Dignity is accomplishing something that you yourself has done, and not given to you.

wolfgang is easy to talk, but when the unemployment rates are high things get difficult, is not that people do not want to work, the government has to facilitate the creation of jobs, being by protecting their industries and services or whatever be the solution..

in the mid 80īs I think Brazil had like 20% unenmployment rate, that is high, the new constituition was made in 1988 after 20 years of militar ditactorship. How people have dignity if there is no oportunity to have a job, not that they do not want to work.

Last edited by Mithus; 10/15/1101:17 AM.

Animal Ethics: "I tremble for my species when I reflect that god is just." Thomas Jefferson.

The govt needs to get out of peoples way and stop being an impediment to work.

Though the situation in Brazil is different. Unlike the USA, it seems like the land distribution was already settled as being in the legal hands of a very select few prior to Brazil's incorporation as a nation.

In the USA, land was trickled out in small amounts to homesteaders across several generations. So while there are certainly some very large landowners in the USA, that and other economic factors has contributed to a very even land distribution - even if the economic distribution in terms of absolute dollars is more uneven.

I do think it makes a difference.

However the land was distributed in this fashion in large part due to the attitudes and effort of individuals. So the individualistic attitudes and even distribution of land are pretty synergistic. But its an important difference to note nonetheless.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)

You mentioned before that Brazil has something about human dignity in the constitution. Human dignity is being a productive member of society. Working and doing what's expected, without living on a handout from the Government. Dignity is accomplishing something that you yourself has done, and not given to you.

wolfgang is easy to talk, but when the unemployment rates are high things get difficult, is not that people do not want to work, the government has to facilitate the creation of jobs, being by protecting their industries and services or whatever be the solution..

in the mid 80īs I think Brazil had like 20% unenmployment rate, that is high, the new constituition was made in 1988 after 20 years of militar ditactorship. How people have dignity if there is no oportunity to have a job, not that they do not want to work.

Again that's the flaw, GOVERNMENT doesn't CREATE JOBS. A private sector creates jobs. Government can dictate how many jobs are created by means of over regulation and heavy taxation. You have to have a strong private sector in order to have a strong stable economy. From what I seen with Brazil is the private sector has became stronger. That's why Brazil's economy is getting stronger. There are a lot of resources in Brazil, and with that your are seeing the rewards in better jobs and a stronger economy.

I seen something interesting on the news the other night. There are certain drugs that are in short supply, a lot of these drugs are for cancer patients. One of the reason's given for the shortage has to do with Government regulation. AGAIN, I'm not saying we don't need regulation, because we do. But to much regulation just shits all over something that's "supposed" to be well intended.

Government red tape is a huge problem, when the government decides to tackle the red tape and becoming more efficient in that area, there will be problems.

When I was 12 my father shipped me off to the fields around the area to do a variety of manual labor jobs. It was hard work for little pay but what it gained me in work ethic.

I very, very rarely see kids these days working out in those fields because quite honestly the mindset of many American families these days is that their children shouldn't have to work those types of jobs because, well, I'm not quite sure. This is the problem; entitlement.

The only problem now is that many of these manual labor jobs such as farming, cleaning and custodial, etc are done by illegals into this country. Hell even today I'm pretty sure, but not positive that many of the fast food employee's are now not teenagers/etc but elderly because from what I've heard there are is a lack of teenagers willing to work these "bad jobs".

You hear people bitch about this everyday and the illegals and immigration and the such however if those people were not allowed to work those jobs, the same jobs that seemingly are "below" most young American's taste, then they would have to be held by American's and most likely a union based operation. In doing so your 85c per lb for apples would not skyrocket to over $3 a lb because of the overhead of union fair wages, benefits and perks they always seem to pull out of their asses.

There was a time, not long ago, that working an honest day for an honest wage meant something and if you didn't have the talents for technology, dentistry, engineering or any other specialty class work talent you did manual labor. We are and will continue to lose these types of jobs, including manufacturing, because no one wants to work these jobs anymore as there is a stigma of being lower class if you do so (at least around my area which is HEAVILY manufacturing based).

The truth of the matter is this country needs ditch diggers, farmers, manual labor because not everyone is a rocket scientist; however, our public school systems and the elitist parents tell our kids they can be anything they want to be which is a very bold and outright lie. It's a shame.

When I was 12 my father shipped me off to the fields around the area to do a variety of manual labor jobs. It was hard work for little pay but what it gained me in work ethic.

I very, very rarely see kids these days working out in those fields because quite honestly the mindset of many American families these days is that their children shouldn't have to work those types of jobs because, well, I'm not quite sure. This is the problem; entitlement.

The only problem now is that many of these manual labor jobs such as farming, cleaning and custodial, etc are done by illegals into this country. Hell even today I'm pretty sure, but not positive that many of the fast food employee's are now not teenagers/etc but elderly because from what I've heard there are is a lack of teenagers willing to work these "bad jobs".

You hear people bitch about this everyday and the illegals and immigration and the such however if those people were not allowed to work those jobs, the same jobs that seemingly are "below" most young American's taste, then they would have to be held by American's and most likely a union based operation. In doing so your 85c per lb for apples would not skyrocket to over $3 a lb because of the overhead of union fair wages, benefits and perks they always seem to pull out of their asses.

There was a time, not long ago, that working an honest day for an honest wage meant something and if you didn't have the talents for technology, dentistry, engineering or any other specialty class work talent you did manual labor. We are and will continue to lose these types of jobs, including manufacturing, because no one wants to work these jobs anymore as there is a stigma of being lower class if you do so (at least around my area which is HEAVILY manufacturing based).

The truth of the matter is this country needs ditch diggers, farmers, manual labor because not everyone is a rocket scientist; however, our public school systems and the elitist parents tell our kids they can be anything they want to be which is a very bold and outright lie. It's a shame.

You are absolutely right. When I was a kid I would do just about any kind of work to gain a few bucks so I could buy something for myself. It felt good to be able to pull out my own money I worked for to pay for something. My parents didn't have a lot of money, so any extra I could come up with was a plus.

You're right about people saying you can do anything you want. I think that's 50/50 at best. Some people can work hard and make something come out of it. Others, it doesn't matter how hard they work still won't be able to do the same thing. I think everyone knows the limitations of their abilities. I am one of those. But what I lack in certain area's, I make up for with work ethic and common sense.

I think you nailed it Icky! There's simply to much "entitlement" thinking these days.

I am truly embarrassed to see how much some of you embraced "I got mine, so screw everyone else" mentality. I know many of you personally and know you to be good people, so it is really puzzling to see how otherwise decent human being could go off the deep end like that.

With 9+% published (and more like 15% real) unemployment finding a job is not that easy, especially when you don't have mobility that someone with above-average income would have. For many of these people moving to cheaper areas, closer to jobs or learning high-demand skills is not an option. They are stuck where they are, doing work they can find locally... and you can't live off that anymore, thanks to open-trade and outsourcing policies that puts so much downward pressure on below-average (half of us are!) population. You can't be serious to expect your fellow countryman (and woman) to live like Chinese factory slaves on about the same income and about the same quality of life.