Tough one….about the Roses. The GFD and local florists.

The Guilderland Fire Department will be selling roses for a fundraiser.

This will really hurt local florists.

I can understand the Fire Department’s need for fundraising – but isn’t there an alternative?

Small local businesses are struggling as it is and seems to me this is a bit like twisting the knife.

Interesting to note…on the news last night someone from the Guilderland Fire Department stated needing the funds for Outreach Programs at pre-schools. If he said they needed new equipment, I’d personally feel differently. What goes on at these Outreach Programs that cost money?

I volunteer my time free at school with my therapy dog…I don’t require any funds. What is the money REALLY used for? Coloring books…brochures? I’m not putting this out there in a negative or sarcastic way by any means, but would like to know exactly what in these school programs cost money.

This really is a tough one because I would love to support the GFD because they are beyond important and necessary in our town, but I also know one of our local florists and my heart breaks for her and her small business.

#31 Please reread comment 28 and you would understand more of the breakdown. I’ll try and explain not all they sell are 2dz (24) to a bunch for colored other than red @ $25.00. Most are Reds sold in 1 dz.(12)to a bunch for $30.00. I’ll be conservative and I’ll split it up evenly 18’000/12= 1’500 dz x$30.00 = $45,000.00 18’000/24=750 2dz bunches x$25.00= $18,750.00 which give you $63,750.00 Minimum base they sell more red than colors then you add on vases, greens or babies breath at an additional $5.00 per item. You are looking at a price point of $45.00 for red and $40.00 for colors. It all adds up. You asked where I came up with such a # directly from a life time member of the GFD and a very wise man who cared. He was against the rose sale he knew the impact it was having on the small local florists. You may also like to re-read comments 16 & 17 to get the story. Again I wish I could make people see it’s not about the Fire Dept. or the valued firefighters it is about the Valentines Day Rose sale they choose to hold knowing the harm it does.

Maybe it’s time for the NYS Comptroller’s office to comment on the sources of revenue for tax supported organizations. Should the amount raised by a fire tax be reduced in proportion to monies raised by fund raisers? This is not a Guilderland only issue, non profits are competing with tax paying, small businesses in every community!

The Guilderland fire department has a wonderful puppet show that can be seen at their open house as well as out reach programs to many elementary school and the Altamont fair. After seeing this puppet show over the years, the production of it seems quite costly. This is just one of the many outreach fire prevention techniques used by VOLUNTEER fire departmens. As a resident of Guilderland, I must point out the fact the there is a fire district and a fire department. The district purchases the equipment, trucks, gear, and all other necessities like that. The fundraiser is for the fire DEPARTMENT for things like fire prevention, open house, and donations to local little league and cheerleading teams , donations to families in need, as well as many other good causes. The rose sale is not stealing the customers who want to spend $80 on a beautiful bouquet of roses from a florist, it brings in the average joe who would instead be going to wal mart or price chopper to get a more affordable dozen roses. The fact that people are discriminating their local VOLUNTEER fire department for trying to raise funds to help those in their community is sickening and a very ignorant gesture.

@ 34. It is not about the Valued FD or its firefighters that anyone has an issue with. We are all in agreement that they deserve to hold fundraisers for community outreach and such, however our issue is with the UNFAIR ROSE SALE that they choose to hold, and this choice puts a HUGE and unfair financial burden on the already struggling local florists. The fire department can hold numerous fund raisers throughout the year that would not have any impact on small businesses. The sickening and ignorant gesture in this situation is the fact that they would intentionally harm the small business community that supports them year round. They have even gone so far as to INTENTIONALLY put up two 5 foot tall signs for their sale right outside two of the flower shops in the town. Talk about spiteful and disrespectful. In 2009, the Guilderland Fire DISTRICT’s lawyer sent us a letter assuring us that these sales by the DEPARTMENT would not be held. The fact is that if the “average joe” is going to buy a dozen RED roses (which are different from the multi-colored price advertised on the signs they put up) cost $30 plus all of the additional expenses that they charge for (vase, greens, babysbreath) which adds as much as $15 bringing the grand total to $45, then they could just as easily afford to get a higher quality, professionally arranged dozen red roses for just $48 at Classica Florist. That’s right, ONLY $3 DIFFERENCE in price. If you are going to claim to “Knowthefacts” than maybe you should actually know them.

I was pleased to hear this evening at the Guilderland ZBA meeting that Don Cropsey will be discussing the illegal signs with the fire department tomorrow morning which brings me to the disingenuousness of the GFD. The last year that they conducted the rose fund raiser, they were required by the town to limit the signs to specific corners like 155 and 20. This year, they not only are conducting the sale which by most peoples understanding they agreed not to do, but they are being arrogant by violating their previous agreement with the town as to numbers of signs and locations.
I ask again, where is the Guilderland Chamber of Commerce and for that matter, every chamber who are supposed to be the protector of business. Their silence is as much a disgrace for them as it is for the fire departments to ram this fund raiser down the communities throat. And for that matter, the Republican Party which claims to champion the cause of business; Mr. Grimm???

@ 36 Thank you for your support of all small buisinesses in the town and for that bit of info you made my day and brought me a ray of sunshine. That was our topic of discussion yesterday. We were going to check to see if they had gotten a permit or filed for a variance for all those signs. I know in previous years they had not. It has always been a thorn in our side so to speak, not only for local florists but for other members of the business community. We can not put out any signs without getting a letter from Roger Stone that we are in violation and yet the GFD can put them up all over town without any recourse in the past. I’m glad to see someone is finally stepping up and addressing this issue with the GFD. I will be waiting to see if it actually makes a difference or it gets swept under the carpet again.

So glad GFD will be held accountable for their illegal signs! If I wasn’t going to be working ungodly hours at the flower shop while they’re doing this sale, I would definately be getting a bunch of people to go down and picket in front of the firehouse with me! I wonder… Since this is hurting the small business community and has the potential to leave hard working people without jobs if the occupy albany people would get involved?? hmmmm… any thoughts?

My apologies for my bad math and I should have been a bit more dilligent in my readings before spouting off and thinking they make a lot more money than they actually do.
It still doesn’t make it right and that’s how much money potentially that can be spread around to the people who LIVE and FEED their families in this manner. Plus those signs are REALLY annoying and to put one directly in front of Classica – seriously?

This flower sale by the GFD is a terrible idea. They are a public institution supported by tax dollars paid by all residents and business. These businesses include florists who either by rent or property ownership pay taxes that support organizations like the GFD. In effect florists are supporting their competition.

Forists are in business to sell flowers. Fire departments are in business to put out fires. If there is a fire I will not call a florist. Conversly if there is a need for flowers I will not call on the fire company. Fair enough???

The FD bashing is so annoying. Really? You’re taking issue on sign placement with the zoning board? Really? Until you’ve been a longstanding member of a fire department and know how it works, don’t bash it. I’m sure the GFD’s money goes a lot further and to many more public services than you think it does.

Do you think that the rest of the population (who is also being hit by the recession and weak economy) wants to spend 50%-70% more for roses. This is a free market and a competitive economy, especialy in this day and age, and fundraisers and businesses can sell roses for less if it makes them money. As sad as it is to local florists, find a better price point and you will be competition to the GFD.

It’s really the CONSUMER who decides who they will buy roses from….not the firehouse.

@ #42 It is clear to see you are one of the many that has to comment just to see their comment in print. If you had taken the time to read the previous comments you would understand we are NOT bashing the FD or the firefighters,and that we have full knowlege of the workings of the GFD. We are a family of Firefighters, EMT’s and Military all in the present tense. I am also a florist that has taken losses every time they have this rose sale. If it was another not for profit having this rose sale and causing myself and other small businesses losses as this one has, I would be doing the same thing to inform the public. If you were a small business owner in the Town of Guilderland you might understand how unfair these signs are. Think back to 2006-2008 when they put up hundreds of signs all over town and they were left up for weeks. In 2009 they had an agreement with the town as to placement and numbers of signs. Which is still not RIGHT or FAIR to the BUSINESSES in the Town, We(all businesses)can NOT put up one additional sign in front of OUR businesses for advertising OUR SALES. Being a NOT for PROFIT entity should not give them the right to violate town ordinances. Lets see if the Town holds them accountable to the fact that they are only suppose to put up the signs up 14 days prior to an event, they put their signs up on January 29th by my calculations the signs should come down on February 12th. Lets see if the Town Zoning Board enforces there own LAWS or if they in fact let them get away with yet another violation.

Stopwhinings comments are nonsense. Local florists are in business to sell flowers. They pay not only property taxes but sales taxes as well. The GFD is a property tax supported institution. It is not designed or constituted to compete with local established businesses. I’m surprised that they did not try to sell pizza on super sunday. As I indicated before I will call on the FDs to put out fires, not a florist.

AND get rid of those hideous signs. They are UGLY. And yes I did send a comment to the zoning code official about these signs.

@45. Yes they could have a member that is a florist but rest assured that if that were the case, 1. They wouldn’t be selling roses out of respect for the member, 2. That member would be protesting if rose sale was hurting their business or 3. That florist would no longer be a member and would be trying to stop them. It’s that simple!!!

Kudos to the GFD for coming up with a great idea that allows people of the community an affordable option for the Valentines holiday. I understand that a few of the local florists are unhappy with GFD, but to be honest I never see or hear advertising from any of the Guilderland florists, especially the ones complaining. I see plenty of Frank Gallo trucks riding around Guilderland, and they don’t even have a location in the town. Frank Gallo is doing something right! In order to make/raise money to survive in today’s tough economy, for-profit and nonprofit businesses have to be creative, affordable, and competitive with all others.

@ 47 for being Guilderlandborn I guess you can be blind and ignorant to the fact that Frank Gallo has not suffered from the GFD or Colonie FD rose sales. His locations are such that he isn’t impacted like Guilderland or Colonie florists. When you are impacted by the FD rose sale year after year it cuts into your advertising budgets. The fact is, if you open the Altamont Enterprise or Guilderland Our Town you would in fact see our ads, that fit within our advertising budget. The reason you see Frank Gallo’s vehicles in town and you see ours in other towns and cities is due to our delivery areas being so large, If you had taken the time to read above comments you would see we are, in fact, very competitive in our pricing. Where, we the florists, choose to use legal means to advertise our businesses, GFD is unfairly choosing to use illegal forms of advertisement. If you look into zoning laws in Guilderland you would see that everything from the wording as well as placement of their rose sale signs, and even that fancy new digital sign outside their firehouse are not in compliance with zoning ordinances. Thank you for your uninformed input.

to#47..the GFD should be ashamed at what theyre doing, to the business that support them! Especially since they agreed 2 years ago that this type of “fund raising” had a huge negative impact on local businesses. They have so many other ways to raise funds and they have the option to choose from 365 days a year to have their “fund raiser”. so WHY on VALENTINES DAY???? AND WHY FOR 3 DAYS STRAIGHT??? this is SO wrong, and they also can advertise FOR FREE, because they litter the town with their huge ugly signs! The florists must pay to advertise regardless of which media they choose, and they do advertise..check the altamont enterprise..ive seen it! Just because the GFD is a not for profit, they dont have to play by the same rules as the local businesses? And isnt it wrong for the GFD to hurt the businesses that pay the taxes, that buy the equiptment that they need?? Something needs to be done to make this type of fund raising stop!! Its not “fund raising” for a good cause, if its hurting businesses and jobs!!!

The sad thing of this whole discussion is most of these comments are from the same IP address. Anyhow, this discussion has gotten 49 to many posts. Lets all go over to table hopping and complain about a new pizza place…. See you there !

@ 50 It is my business along with the other florists in town that has been hurt every year by the Valentines day rose sale. I choose to put my name out there because, I can’t be hurt any more financially than I have been in the past years. Unlike the individuals that choose to remain nameless for the sake of slamming those of us trying to make the public aware of the strain this 3 day, 14 hours a day Rose Sale puts on local businesses. I fully understand the need for some to protect their identity. I have put up with alot of spiteful and disrespectful acts these past couple of weeks. Including having the Chief of the GFD put two 5′ signs out by my shop and yes we know it was him because he was confronted by another florist in town while they were putting up these signs. Yet they continued to put up the signs knowing full well what he was doing. He has a business right around the corner from mine and he does quite well for himself being a GFD member and profiting from the sale of beer and soda to the social club of the GFD. Wake up people you are mistaken if you believe it is primarily for community outreach. Time will tell when their records are made public.

Is Price Chopper, CVS, Hannaford, Wallgreens, etc. wrong for selling roses on Valentines Day or just GFD? When the fire department has a car wash fundraiser, no blogs are posted by Colonial Car Wash or Hoffman Car Wash . . . when there is a Brooks BBQ Dinner at your local fire department, Kentucky Fried Chicken doesn’t blog about it, pancake breakfasts take place all the time, you don’t hear from Mikes Diner or International House of Pancakes. Fund raisers of all kinds take place throughout the year, at every fire department. I will purchase flowers at GFD this year, even though I rarely purchase flowers, just to support the fire department.

@54 The businesses you refer to are just that businesses. The GFD and Colonie FD are NOT for PROFIT and are tax based entities the fund raisers you talk about are for 1 day or a few hours a day with little impact on local business. The rose sale is a major sale that takes place for 3 days 14 hours each day they sell tens of thousands of roses and take away from small local florists and even price chopper feels the effects albeit to a smaller degree, If these types of sales by fire departments are allowed to continue you will see more and more small local florists closing their doors. It is your right to purchase flowers from whom ever you wish. Good luck trying to buy your wedding flowers or funeral flowers for a loved one,from the fire department, once they shut down local florists one by one. Has anyone of you stopped and asked why other FD’s in the Town or in Voorheesville for that matter, do not hold this rose sale? I have… Answer it hurts small businesses in the community in which we serve. I guess some just have a conscience. Think about that and weigh the consequences carefully.

@56 – It’s certainly been interesting reading the comments. I’ve really appreciated a few, and learned quite a bit. A few comments, though, I thought were unnecessary. I’ve discovered over the years that pointless comments on blogs are a hobby for some.

@58 – That was my main curiosity as I noted in the post. On the news, the fireman only referred to Outreach Programs in preschools. comment #6 mentioned a few possibilities as did #34. While I appreciate a few of the #34′s explanations, something about donating for Little League and cheerleading items seemed off. I did like the part about donating to families’ in need, though.
What I was HOPING for were some better ideas for GFD fundraising. It sure would be nice if the community could work together with a GFD fundraiser – with intentions of the money collected being known to all.

Thank you Teri Conroy, for giving us this opportunity to get the facts out to the community and for giving us a chance to educate the public. Thank you to all those who have posted positive and supportive information. I appreciate the support that has been shown. We are down to the wire for Valentines Day. Here’s to hoping this has made a positive impact on the community, not only for myself but for the other small shops in the town.