San Francisco Restaurant Workers Want To Make 25% Standard Tip Rate

SAN FRANCISCO (CBS SF/99.7 Now) – It’s a question many of us ask when we go out to a restaurant. “How much should I tip?” Whether your service is good or bad, some San Francisco restaurant workers want to implement a 25% standard tip onto your bill for you, according to an article in the Contra Costa Times.

Is this fair? Some in the food industry say “yes, it’s about time.” However, many “foodies” are not as happy with the idea. According to the Times, for the most part, people, on average tip between 15% – 20% and the restaurant worker actually has to claim 15% with the IRS.

Those opposed to the increase noted in the article that “the whole purpose of a tip is to reward service.” They feel the new tip increase should be earned and if more is needed, then they must step up their service so that the increase justifies a larger tip amount.

Jeffrey Pollack, a spokesperson for the Fisherman’s Wharf Restaurant Association, told CBS San Francisco that most restaurant owners “would not support mandatory tips” and certainly not 25%. He said such a move would be bad for business by discouraging locals from dining out and would harm tourism to the city as well.

Not everyone is against the idea though. Some consumers told the Mercury News that they feel with the state of the nation’s economy is in, that 25% is not unreasonable, and some tip above the average already. Some people went a step further to say if you want to reward service, you must start tipping the workers at fast food places as well. Most fast food workers earn minimum wage and rarely get tips.

What are your thoughts?
Are you for the mandatory increase or against it?
Have you ever worked in the restaurant business?
Is this 25% tip mandate fair?

I have two words for these dopes: EAT ME! I tip between 15 and 20% depending on service, sometimes but rarely more. If this becomes standard, not even leaving room for a lower tip for poor service, I will no longer dine in SF. Meals are mostly overpriced there already. Learn something from the NetFlix fiasco, you greedy jerks!

I live in San Francisco and dining out costs have already gone up due to healthcare tax. A automatic 25% on top of that is ridiculous. I only dine out at private clubs I am a member of in town. All other dining out is out of town only.

A tip has always been voluntary based on actual service delivered. I tip 15-20% if normal good service. If excellent service, then 20-25%. If poor service, then little if any tip with final visit to applicable establishment. Pay for performance works and anything else does not work.

There are plenty of restaurant fish in the sea. Deliver what I seek or perish. If you don’t like it, go pound sand.

Have worked in food/kitchen/restaurant service
—plenty goes on with food before it arrives at table
—have seen food spilled in even broken glass, bugs, spit on, picked off the floor,snotted on, reused from other patron…and more
—many slimeballs work in food service

I’m with you ComSenseWiz. I was in SF last year and couldn’t believe that I had a ‘helathcare tax’ added to my bill. On top of all the bums, drug addicts and trash on the street that was the straw that broke the camels back. SF is nearly bankrupt and now they want to drive even more business away. You know what go ahead.. drive yourselves into the ground!

You are a fool Matt. This will only backfire.
You will see waiters beiing let go as restarurants around the city go broke.

The difference between US waiters and those in Europe is to the Europeans it’s a profession and top service is always expected.
In the US it’s usually losers like Matt who can’t find a real job or are part-time while they study for their advanced degree in Anthropology or Green Energy.

The other difference between Europe and the U.S. is that in Europe, waiting is an art, and culinary arts are much more revered than they are here. I hardly ever get a waiter in the U.S., in any establishment, that is worth a 25% tip.

If waiters in the U.S. want more compensation for what they do, they have options at their disposal: they can unionize, and/or they can increase their performance. Using the force of government is nothing but thuggery and will backfire on businesses. Like the minimum wage law, all it will do is increase unemployment.

I went to England a few years ago and the service wasn’t even on a par with service you get in the States. I don’t know what it’s like in Italy or France, but definitely in England you could tell that the waiters did NOT work for tips.

Agreed. Leave. The people who feel working in the service industry is for someone who is uneducated or for the lowest of the low should stay home anyway. Most people who actually appreciate the experience tip 25% anyway.

Adam – You are correct that $2.13 is the minimum base wage; however, Federal law requires employers to make up the difference when tip credits added to the base wage are less than minimum wage. Therefore, all waiters make at least minimum wage through base wages and tips.

I do not feel compelled by a percentage. I am compelled by the quality of service. For good service I usually tip MORE than 20% (one time, I tipped over 100%). For poor service the percentage goes down.

In this case, I will just opt out. Keep your 25%, keep your food and keep your ‘pay me becasue I exist’ attitude.

None of you have experience as a server I can see. If that were the case, you would understand that tips are basically the only money we make. We don’t get paid the minimum wage that others do, we get $2.13 per hour. It is only enough to cover the taxes. We don’t get a paycheck, we get tips. We also have to use our tips to pay the bussers, bartenders, and hosts. If you don’t like it or don’t have enough money to tip, stay home.

Adam, it’s obvious YOU’VE never been a server in CALIFORNIA. Unlike most of the other states in the US, California labor law mandates that servers get paid minimum wage in addition to their tips (most states allow a below average base wage, with the assumption that tips will bring the wage up to minimum wage level). This is why wait staff in California at a decently patronized restaurant or bar actually make very good money (often more than people in many non-wait staff jobs). Thus this notion of mandating any level of tip, much less one equal to a quarter of the cost of the food, is pure greed.

TIPS stands for “to insure prompt service” what incentive is there to do so if you already know how big a tip you are going to get?
I have worked in and owned a restaurant, if you give good service, you will get a good tip. Yes, every so often you get a cheapskate, but on the whole, you make good money.
The only time I am okay with a mandetory tip is when it is a large party, 6 or more or a banquet. For some reason, large parties seem to undertip and the waiter has worked himself to death.

redistribution of wealth rears its head again…not getting paid for quality of work..only that your lazy butt shows up is enough for some…maybe you could hire some of those high quality OWS bums to wait tables for you and see what you get for your 25%…99% give about 2% effort

You guys have the wrong attitude. The fine folks of SF should pay more. How else will they be able to pay for the illegal aliens in your Sancuary City. You guys keep electing these politically correct Bozos, and deserve what you get.

I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I don’t tip at all; regardless of the service. I figure, if my wife and I save 15% of each meal…maybe an average of $5.00-$6.00…then every 10th meal in a restaurant will be free! LOL
Can’t beat those odds. Save on tips and eat a free meal once in awhile.
BAWAHAHAHA

John Payton- For your own sake I hope you don’t eat in the same restaurant twice because I guarantee that the servers that you don’t tip remember your face. If you are dumb enough to eat in the same restaurant more than once I would be willing to bet that you have consumed various things that would horrify you if you knew that you were eating them.

Things to consider here:
Most of the people eating at those establishments have also been affected by the economy and are trying to watch their spending as well. This may just be enough to put them over the top and stop eating in SF

As the food establishments raise their prices, by default the tip value goes up, and SF has some of the highest resturaunt food prices in the country/ Therefore the tips in SF are some of the highest in the country

The sense of entitlement among the food workers in SF is atonishing, but predictable. This is the land of Nancy Pelosi after all, and only in a parallel universe such as SF could she exist

About 6 years ago, SF City unilaterally declared that the minimum wage for tipped workers would be raised to $8 per hour. Overnight, this increased the base wage paid to waiters, chambermaids, banquet employees, etc by a factor of almost 4! This in effect was done to redistribute wages to low income service industry workers.

As a 24 year veteran of the restaurant and hotel industry, I saw many long-time employees in wage/hour jobs, flock to to tipped positions because their incomes would double. In the case of one executive chef, taking a waiter job meant that his hours were halved and his income increased because of a lesser tax burden. Servers who I did know at the time – in mid-level upscale independent restaurants were making in excess of $85k per year.

What this also changed was how restaurants could apportion their labor – the employer tax contribution went up considerably as did the employee’s. So was this really just a tax hike couched as a “vote for our working poor”??? Maybe.

What happened? The price of restaurant cup of coffee went up to $4.50. Ice tea, $4.00 and little necessaries became charged items. These increase in wages could not be covered by cutting costs – it had to be met by increased revenue.

A 25% flat gratuity? What have I received that is now that much more expensive to deliver? Many people get second jobs to make ends meet – there’s an idea. Maybe servers should take on an extra table a night, lobby owners to give them extra tables in their section OR maybe just get a job that pays more. If I were to have remained a line cook for the 25 years of my career, should I now expect that someone should be paying me $145K simply because of my tenure? Kind of doubtful.

Adam: This hypocritical argument “if you don’t want to pay for the service, don’t eat out”, would equate to “if you don’t want to pay the government tax bill, don’t live in this nation”. This argument ignores the reality that we don’t mind paying for what we get, were simply sick of this tipping structure and mentality. We don’t feel are getting our moneys worth, and we don’t like it.

Well, exactly! People writing and supporting these policies have no understanding of basic economics. And the servers supporting it are short-sighted. Sure, there will be an increase per customer in tips, likely 10% per bill. But the economy is affecting the diner as much as the server, and what amounts to a mandated 10-25% increase in prices (in reality, it is a 10% increase for eating out) will ultimately reduce the number of diners. In the short-term, the servers will benefit. In the long term, when the restaurant goes out of business–or the diners stop coming in (25% of a $0 bill is still $0)–the policy will kill jobs in SF.

Art and ToArt – BOTH WRONG. There are common inaccurate claims that “tip” (or “tips”) is an acronym for a phrase such as “To Insure Prompt Service”, “To Insure Proper Service”, “To Improve Performance”, “To Inspire Promptness” or “To Insure Promptness.” These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows. (Insure is wrong grammar – If anything it would be TEPS – to ENSURE prompt service).

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of “to give a gratuity” first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning “to give; to hand, pass”, which originated in the rogues’ cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning “to strike or hit smartly but lightly” (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, “to tap”), but this derivation is “very uncertain”.

here, (australia) they get paid ‘proper’ wages, and a tip is voluntary but not expected.why dont they just get paid a fair wage, and forget this ‘tip’ rubbish.sure, the prices will rise, but not 25%, probably less than 5%.

Because a “fair wage” is a moving target; it always has been and always will be. It doesn’t matter at what amount you determine a wage to be fair. As soon as a few people start making more, that wage is no longer “fair.”

What is a fair wage? Kids come out of college here in the states with their degrees in Humanities, European History, Women’s Studies, etc and EXPECT to make 100k a year. There is plague of over inflated self-worth and entitlement in this country. People don’t want to earn their keep. They believe it is OWED to them.

My wife used to bartend in Australia, and she got paid a great wage because only the tourists tipped. I’d be fine with that here. I wait tables and some people don’t tip at all. The problem is we get paid $2.13 per hour which all goes to taxes and we tip out a percentage of our sales to the bussers, bartenders and hosts. Some people don’t tip at all, but we still have to pay people so it literally costs us money to wait on them. Another thing is that the IRS requires us to claim 15%. so anything below that and we have to pay taxes on wages we didn’t earn. I would be more than happy to have a high hourly and no tips. It would be stable income. But as long as we have tipped wages, people need to tip or stay home.

I agree – the tip should be on top of wages. I’d rather restaurants were honest with prices. Waiters should get at least whatever that country’s minimum wage. It would go on the bill? Fine. That is how every other business works – If I get good service in a supermarket, no-one expects me to tip the assistant. Also a restaurant relies on more than just waiters. What about the chefs, the cleaners, the porter?

Gilbert, that comment goes beyond ignorance and into pure stupidity. You obviously know nothing about the European economies that grew out of the feudal system. Cheap, unskilled labor has always been exploited in every nation on earth. Child labor existed in Europe for centuries. As for slavery, Europeans brought the first slaves to the US, and they were WHITE.

If you think America was somehow different, you’re knowledge base was gained by watching The Daily Show. Like it or not, waiting tables is unskilled labor (and having done it myself for tips, I can speak from experience.) If you’re complaining that you can’t raise a family of 8 on a waiter’s pay, then get an education or some marketable skills and switch professions. People go out to eat to eat, not to pay your salary. It’s the complete ignorance of economics (and real life) that has ruined California’s economy.

You’re experience in another state is not relevant. California law requires a wait staff get paid ABOVE minimum wage. All restaurant workers in SF make at least 9.86 an hour, even servers. Also the Feds require a rate of 8% not 15%.

How about the Restaurants increase the salary of the waiters? That way their income is taxable and they can contribute to the huge deficit California is in. The resaurants want you to pay their salary so they don’t have to. It is already expensive enough with a family of five to eat out without having to pay extra for sorry service.

Wow, talk about a stupid comment; If the restaurants paid a regular salary to the waiters, who so you think is going to pay for that? the restaurant? no, silly, they will raise the price of the meal so you pay it. goodness gracious!

The “free market” argument floating around doesn’t hold up as soon as look at any other country in the damn world and see that paying a fair wage is more than possible with smart business practices, and the goal is not to squeeze as much money out of it and your slaves/employees as possible.
What determines a fair wage? Quality of life – not quantity of stuff. If you have to work 40+ hours a week and you’re not being paid enough to afford to eat and at least share housing – YOU ARE NOT BEING PAID ENOUGH FOR WHERE YOU WORK. That’s all, people. You do not value yourself or your time and have sold it for what you think you’re worth. Why would they pay you more if they have you brainwashed to ask the customer for more instead of your employer?

Our income is taxable. The IRS requires us to claim 15% of our sales. Our paycheck go 100% to covering the taxes. So the only thing we take home is tips. If you can’t afford to go out and tip the server, stay home.

Cole is right; the restaurants should increase their employee’s salary. Philly, it’s not stupid as it’s implied that the restaurants would have to raise prices. That’s what makes sense. In truth, this is the same problem with the Airlines. All the added fees hide the real price of the service. Why not just lay it out up front?

Davidson is right, anyone who does not get paid enough at their job has two options: ask for a raise, or find a job that pays better.

At the end of the day, I think the Europeans do have it right in that waiters and the like should get a better pay. Tipping should be optional. In the net, I’m sure at best I would pay no less for my meal, but that’s the point.

Disagree. Unlike most people working 9-5, a majority of people working in restaurants value their jobs. I guarantee the only reason they want to implement this rule is to keep out the awful customers. The people who will go in this restaurant to dine will appreciate the experience and know they will not be surrounded by cheap, obnoxious, amateur diners. Furthermore, if the servers at this restaurant are making really good money with their 25% tip, other quality employees will be beating down the door to get a job there. So, why would the owners keep employees around that won’t “earn” the 25% tip?

When I was in Germany a couple of years ago the tipping was completely different than here. The wait staff was paid a livable wage so tipping was not needed for them to survive. You basically rounded up to the next Euro or maybe a little more and everyone was happy. This really did not change the cost of the meal much if any compared to a meal here in the states.

The whole tip thing is way out of hand. The waiter is becoming an independent contractor. The waiter/waitress is an employee of the restaurant and his pay should primarily come from his employer. The tip should be extra, a thank you for extra service. It’s already too large and too big of a part of their compensation, distorting the whole idea of ‘tip’.

Agreed. It is way out of hand. Since when did the customer become responsible for the wages of someone else’s employee ? Tipping is a pain for the customer. Tips should be abolished, and left the free market establish what th eemployer is able to pay and the employee is willing to take.

They already have a sale tax applied to federal AND state taxes on gasoline, why not sales taxbtips? They already want to tax services…haircuts, legal, medical and accountancy services. Didn’t.anyone remember Gov. moonbeam thebfirstntime around, when CA was the laughing stock of America? We are again.

Apparently they think this is ethical. Restaurant marks up the wine by 250 – 350% and then you’re expected to add 25% to that markup for a waiter who does little work uncorking. Even if you’re an experienced sommelier that’s still ridiculous.

I was a waiter for over 10 years of my life. Rarely did I ever get over 20% and often I would receive 10-15%. I was the high energy, friendly, bend over backwards person. If they want to educate the customer about the normal rate being 15%, that’s fine. IF you want to force a mandatory tip rate, then you are going to loss a lot of customers. The only restaurant that will survive in that place will be the low end buffet.
A waiter is the “perfect” free market job. You and you alone control your ability to make more money. As for the IRS reporting. You are required to report 8% of your nightly sales, but technically, you are supposed to report exactly what you earn.

First of all, TIP stands for (To Insure Promptness). It was originally given before service was rendered to do exactly as the name implies, to insure the promptness of the server. But with a lot of unscrupulous persons, once they had the money in their hands, they just didn’t care anymore, so people began to withhold the TIP until after the service was rendered and then would TIP according to the quality of the service. Tips are not required, they are a show of appreciation for good service. If a server is terrible at their job and not doing what is expected of them, why should they be given anything. Yes, there are a lot of cheap folks out there, but again I reiterate, TIPS ARE NOT MANDATORY!!! Institute this policy and watch how many of your restaurants go under because people will not tolerate being forced to pay a tip for substandard service. I for one will NEVER patronize a business that forces me to pay what is supposed to be a gratuity. For those who do not know what that word means…. it is (gratitude), and in this case a show of appreciation for a job well done.
If your servers are hurting for money… pay them more. But I know that in California, servers are required to be paid minimum wage, in addition to their tips. Come to Tennessee where servers only get an average of $2.18 an hour plus their tips.

Brad. Agree with you on most of what you say, however There are common inaccurate claims that “tip” (or “tips”) is an acronym for a phrase such as “To Insure Prompt Service”, “To Insure Proper Service”, “To Improve Performance”, “To Inspire Promptness” or “To Insure Promptness.” These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows. (Insure is wrong grammar – If anything it would be TEPS – to ENSURE prompt service).

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of “to give a gratuity” first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning “to give; to hand, pass”, which originated in the rogues’ cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning “to strike or hit smartly but lightly” (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, “to tap”), but this derivation is “very uncertain”.

I’ll stick to the buffet at the point. I don’t know where this reporter got her information but in all the restaurants I’ve worked in we claim 10% of our tips and that’s only on credit cards. Cash tips most times we claim 10% of those if any. If I had mostly credit cards I won’t claim cash tips at all. I don’t get tipped for bad service and I wouldn’t expect to nor do I tip for bad service. If you don’t like the tips you are getting than maybe you should reflect upon your customer service skills. Something that is almost entirely missing in the “entitlement” generation.

Definitely – I tip10% for food, 10% for service. nothing is a given, and I’d have no problem leaving no tip if the food sucked and the service also isn’t close to being acceptable.

on top of a 20% tip we pay a healthcare tax. its absurd, and has already caused lots of ppl not to go out. if they push a 25% tax+ healthcare tax + 9.5 % state sales tax, that will be a 40% addition to the bill.

I hope san francisco doesn’t mind closing down restaurants – this is what is fueling the rise of the gourmet food trucks.

I’d like to know how tipping became a percentage game a Waitier serving a single dish in an upscale establishment vs. a waiter severing a single dish in a diner is serving the same number of plates regardless of the cost of the meal so why not tip $1 or 2 per plate not a percentage of a meal. cost. Tipping is now a demand vs. a reward ant that is wrong,

As one who has been working in the service industry for 15 years, I think this is a bit over the top. While many of my guests DO tip over 25%, I think the standard SHOULD still be 20% and IS by the majority of my clientele. I might suggest to watch Mr. Waiter Man on Youtube, as he says what so many of us in the industry think and feel. He always says, “20 percent is the standard.” I wonder what his view of this new 25% thing would be. He’s bitter, cute, angry, funny, foul-mouthed and truthful. I’ve seen his page grow from 20 subscribers to over 2,000! He deserves more, I think.

Mike: Wrong.There are common inaccurate claims that “tip” (or “tips”) is an acronym for a phrase such as “To Insure Prompt Service”, “To Insure Proper Service”, “To Improve Performance”, “To Inspire Promptness” or “To Insure Promptness.” These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows. (Insure is wrong grammar – If anything it would be TEPS – to ENSURE prompt service).

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of “to give a gratuity” first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning “to give; to hand, pass”, which originated in the rogues’ cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning “to strike or hit smartly but lightly” (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, “to tap”), but this derivation is “very uncertain”.

This means big brother will get more . They will automatically have the necessary
facts to let them know exactly how much you make. Since they will take more
out of your pay (restaurants take 8% of what you claim) Most service people I know
don’t claim all they receive. Be careful what you ask for you may not like it in the long run.

As a person that works in the “service industry” let me share you my “complaint” Some people don’t know how to tip. Some people would look at a $20 tip and think that they are being very generous, but not when it’s on a $250 bill. That’s less than 10%!!! There are people out there that do not know the meaning of a good tip. I had a table last week, and I really went above and beyond for this table. I never asked the gentleman if he would like a refill on his iced tea: I brought him a refill when he was close to empty. I made sure their steaks were to their liking. Offered desert and made sure they had a wonderful experience and wonderful meal. My tip: 12%!!!!

It’s hard to say about “mandatory tipping” but there’s a chance that the service was sub-par. Please keep in mind there’s a difference between sub-par service and a problem wit) your food (don’t punish the server for a mistake the chef makes!”

I used to love visiting San Francisco but, over the last few years the drift leftward has become so unpleasant that we’ve quit doing business in The City. The sense of entitlement is just incredible- from the homeless to store clerks, temporary help etc.

Some quick math- If I work at a decent restaurant and have 4 tables per hour and their average bill is 60/Table (Which seem slow for dinner but high for lunch), as a waiter, I would be making 60 bucks/hour with the 25% gratuity plus my 3-4 dollar per hour base pay? So like 64 dollars/hour? Wow, count me in, who needs college loans!!

Makes no business sense. You don’t force people to pay you more by legislating it. You compete with better quality and service. If the restaurant is providing better service and quality then raise the price on the meals and pay staff more to compensate. Otherwise, realize that a service job requires quality service to get paid more. If all are paid the same quality will suffer. If quality suffers patrons will disappear. 25 percent of $0 is $0.

Is it really a “tip” if it’s a mandatory part of the check? Why don’t the restaurant’s just inflate the menu prices by 25% and give the extra revenue to their servers? Wouldn’t the end result be the same?

A tip is supposed to be a custom in the service industry, not a norm and certainly not a demand. It’s not a tip if it’s expected. The problem has now become that the service is horrible and they expect 15-20 percent just because they did the minimum required by bringing mostly what you ordered, and they get to it whenever. if it’s 25%, that means a family of 4 just paid the equivalent of having a family of 5. So why not just sit the waiter down and buy him dinner??? The other frustrating part is when a party of 6 or more has 18% automatically added, again getting poor service because the ‘tip’ is predetermined.

Oh for gawds sake the restaurant should pick up the extra 10 percent on everything a waiter does for the restaurant. Misguided greed factor again is going to get the entire restaurant industry in a bad way.

Good greif. I’ve always been a good tipper since I used to be a waiter. I always felt I know how hard these people work. But now I realize that I work even harder in my non-restaurant job than I ever did as a waiter.

I think I’m going to revert back to 10% tipping. 15% for above average service.
Otherwise I may not be going out to eat at all.

You are completely correct. Tips are a scam. MOST of the servers I’ve had in the past 2-3 years have bad attitudes, poor personal communications skills, and a lousy work ethic with an attitude that they think they are owed for doing what is basically UNSKILLED LABOR. And, yes, I was a server while I was going to college full time and know the whole scam from the inside out. Tipping is ridiculous for most of today’s food servers.

As a former restaurant/bar worker for over 10 years with some time spent on Stuart St., let me give you the scoop: Some servers suck and don’t deserve 25% and some other servers are fantastic and DO deserve 25%. So what would motivate the great servers to provide great service when they can just do a lousy job and get the same amount of gratuity? Servers are motivated by only one thing: PROFIT- much like the rest of the world, and perform based on the potential of increased profit according to their performance. Here’s an idea, if you want to help servers so much then STOP TAXING THEIR TIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE! I’ve had great tips, I’ve on occasion had no tips- how can the government ASSUME they know how much I was tipped then tax me ON THEIR basis? They’re vultures picking the bones of every productive person in society. This city is MAD(as in crazy.) Rewarding lousy performance with a guaranteed 25% gratuity will give you only one thing- increased lousy service. So enjoy being soaked for horrible service all ye do-gooder’s of San Francisco! You really know how to stifle excellence in performance. Thumbs up. I’d love to hear your comments, you can email me at adamdotpeartatgmaildotcom. And really? You obviously didn’t work outside the state of CA. Go to Louisiana, Utah, hell, just about everywhere you’ll find the starting wage for a server is $2.12 an hour. Tell those servers tips are ridiculous.

Adam Peart asked: So what would motivate the great servers to provide great service when they can just do a lousy job and get the same amount of gratuity?

And therein lies the reason why most government employees are not worth a bucket of warm spit. To make matters worse – you can’t fire them unless they commit a felony and even then you have to spend a fortune to prove it .

because often the owners are shaving their time-cards illegally (cutting off time actually worked from their paychecks and tax obligations), skimming on the staff tips, not providing mandatory breaks, not providing mandatory meals, not offering health insurance, etc etc

Go find another line of work! No one is forcing you to wait tables. I tell my kids, don’t go to college, you will be the one waiting tables. But I’m guesssing you are just way too “cool” to go to school and become a contributor to society, not a drain on society.

I hear you, Brother. The legal profession is not all candy corn and streets of Gold. Go back to being a server. You’ll work less hours and be far happier. Trust me. I’ve been chasing the elusive Golden ring for 10 years and will be paying my student loans for another 10.

Thomas your right, the owners want us to pay for there help plus we pay the owners for there food. The owners make out not paying there help and we over pay to eat out. Let them keep there food and services. See how they survive on that!

Don’t look now, but your sense of entitlement is showing. You are saying that you do not want to pay income tax on your income. Join the rest of the 47% who pay no taxes. My daughter waited tables so we always tip generously. We are not, however, going to patronize a restaurant that demands that high a tip. I have never seen a waiter who deserved that kind of tip and I have eaten in some very, very fine establishments. You are not entitled to shirk your responsibility to this country.

Tips for fast food workers? The reason you have to carry your tray to the trash can as you leave was they “will save you money” because they won’t have to hire a person to dump your trash, thus rewarding the customer with lower prices ! RIGHT !!??
:

What this does is give the franchise owner more profit. In Thailand at every Mc
Donald they have an an employee clear the table which gives many more people a job. So what if the owner makes less. At least it put more people to work and that is what is needed in the US MORE JOBS Maybe “hope and Change” can clean off the tables

You must be a San Fran Nut Case. Owners do not go into business so the can hire employees – they hire employees because they went into business.

The concept it upside down when you consider it legit to expect an owner to take all the risk and put up all the cash so they can make sure everyone else makes out alright.

A smart owner will treat his or her employees well, because it enhances the business. As soon as the return on the investment begins to diminish any further increase in investing more in employees stops. It’s a delicate balance that the owner has to strike. Some jobs just do not command high wages and expecting them to offer more than the work is worth leaves reason behind.

It’s not harsh or mean; it’s the law of business, kind of like gravity. You either make the business fly or gravity kicks in and you crash and burn.

Oh, heck. Why not 100%. Just double the bill and it makes it soooo easy. What do I care. I will refuse to take my business to any restaurant that requires even a 1% tip. What I tip is my choice. If that’s your attitude, you snotty waiters can go homeless for all I care. Don’t like the money in the food industry? Go do something else, something that requires a little training and education.

When I was younger, I would ordinarily over tip, however, after having worked in restaurants myself, I refuse to give extra if the gratuity is added onto the bill. The reason is that I realize that the waiters’ mentality is such that if a patron does give extra money than on the check, their thinking is that they tricked those patron into double tipping and not that the extra tip was a matter of appreciation.

To the people who give the advice to their children “go to school otherwise you’ll be a server,” – many servers I’ve worked with not only have their degrees (like myself) but also teach school for their main job. Go into debt young man, get your meaningless degree in Art History. Become a server anyway.

Yeah, I’m old (relatively for the industry) and still waiting tables. It sucks. Its the economy and lack of jobs, not a lack of motivation on my part. The real drag on our economy is the baby boomers sucking billions upon billions of dollars from social security and medicare. Two things which us lowly servers help to prop up yet will never see a return cent of in our lifetime.

As a baby boomer I resent the implication that we are stealing billions from the economy. We have paid into SS our entire lives and expect our, and our employer’s investment, in our retirements to be honored. We got a really raw deal from the government which stole our contributions and have used it to fund their social welfare programs in order to buy votes. If we had been allowed to invest that money on our own, the payout per month would be many times the pittance that the government returns on our investment.

Gus…I’m what is classified as a “baby boomer”. I got my social security statement last month. I have CONTRIBUTED $484,000.00 to social security and medicare. That means $484,000.00 of MY money was taken from my pay over the past 36 years. Now, I may not be able to retire until age 72 (with all of those proposed “fixes” being bandied about). That means I will have to work and CONTRIBUTE (have stolen from me) another $250,000 over the next 22 years. So, I should work for 58 years, have my money stolen from me and then, have people like you whine about how I and people like me are SUCKING money out of a system that SUCKED money from our pay? Almost 3/4 million dollars? Grow up.

We should probably abolish all forms of minimum wages, federal and all states and also pass a federal laws forbidding customers from tipping employees and establish a fine of say $500 of caught tipping.

This would save the ‘job creator’ more money for creating jobs which is the goal right?
That’s what those people at the various televised GOP debates have been saying. One of them have to be correct on this wage issue.

“turds who don’t tip” is just the attitude that some restaurant workers have that make guys like me not tip you. How dare you “remember”me and give me anything less than perfect service when I come back to the place you work! If the checkout clerk at the supermarket is rude, customers go to another supermarket. If the wait staff is rude, guess what? Grow up.

turds that don’t tip usually complain about everything send stuff back all the time and end up not paying for as much as they can get away with.. don’t come back your just another expense. if your a jerk and I remember that , the last thing you get is ” perfect service”. I mean if you make a habit of being an a$$. no one wants your business . stay home and watch reality tv by yourself.

Treat every customer the same with highest service and don’t worry about it, it will take care of itself. Those with problems and low tips don’t folow this rule. Tip for managment, fire employees with low tips.

Your a moron. If I got no tip from you I can tell you that I will be paying attention to my other customers first and you would be last. Not because of any punishment but because you don’t tip and so you get the least of the service that I have to provide.

Personally, I tip according to the service I get. Bad service gets bad tip which might include no tip at all. If you mandatorily make me tip, I will remove the tip from my bill and you will get nothing. If the restruant workers want more money, strke against the restruant for more wages. I tip my barber when I get a hair cut. Tips are not mandatory. When the government starts charging me to tip, I will start eating at home more.

I have heard that before, but didn’t really believe it till my daughter starting waiting tables in college. She said the waiters would take turns waiting on larger parties of “minorities”, because there was (usually) an inordinate amount of work and, with few exceptions, little-to-no tip. She was told it is connected to “that slavery stuff”.

Servers are among the most entitled groups of workers in this country.

Tell me another industry or business that you; invest no capital in your business, need no education or special talent, can switch your trade area almost at will, and clear 15% to 20% pure profit from day one?

You know what, I have had some pretty sicking turds as waiters and waitress’. Turds aren’t always the ones not tipping, they many times are the ones with the attitude serving my food. So I don’t tip turds.

I was in Copenhagen where the tip is mandatory…….20%-25% and service was deplorable. What leverage does the diner have? The most outrageous incident was a request for water…..we declined bottle water and had a pitcher of tap water
brought to the table. We were shocked when we were billed 6.00 for tap water.
I would prefer that the owner raise prices to compensate servers a fair wage and eliminate tipping completely.

Eliminate tipping and compensate waiters with a ‘fair wage’ and service would plummet, there being no incentive to perform well.

The great servers (and there are many) would notice that the inferior servers made the same as them. This is the basic rub with socialism and why socialist societies eventually collapse. Look at Greece, the old Soviet Union, et al.

Eating out is not a divine right nor is it an obligation. It should be (and where it is successful is) a free market enterprise.

Great service, great food, fair prices (good value) and people talk, the restaurant succeeds.

Also, a waiter, or any worker for that matter, has no divine right to a job. If you don’t like where you’re working go start your own restaurant or work somewhere else.

Mandatory tipping will drive customers away and will break the hearts of the great servers as socialism broke the hearts of great workers.

In ‘public service’ you can bet there are great workers at all levels who are not happy seeing the freeloaders not pulling their weight yet getting paid the same as everyone else.

What we need is LESS government in our lives, less mandates, less regulations, and less whining from losers. The winners (be they restaurant owners or servers) would thrive, the losers could just go away.

ITS ABOUT TIME THAT RESTAURANTS PAID THEIR OWN HELP A DECENT
WAGE. WHY SHOULD THE CUSTOMER PAY FOR THE SERVERS?
THEY HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH THIS FOR YEARS AND NOW IT’S TIME
TO PAY THE HELP. i RESENT A MANDENTORY TIP. JUST RAISE THE PRICE
ON THE MENU AND PAY THE SERVERS A REASONABLE SALARY.

I agree with you, Robert. What is the sense of giving a flat amount (whether it be 15%, 20%, or 25%, and whether it be called a tip or even a fee)? The reason we give nowadays is to bolster the puny salaries the server receives from their employer. Doesn’t it make more sense to make the restaurants pay at least the minimum wage (which I believe they are exempt from doing) and raising the cost of the meal accordingly? Tipping could then be eliminated totally, save the rare instance when we truly overwork a waitress with a large, possibly over-demanding party.

Obviously, you misunderstand the concept of ‘tipping’. Servers are guaranteed minimum wage if their tips don’t add up to at least that much. Tipping is written into the minimum wage law and recognized as a specific job type. By your standards, if servers were paid a better wage, then there would be no need for me to tip at all, now would there. I guess you as asking to reward all of the terrible servers at there at the expense of those that bust their buns and get great tips. What an idiot you are…..

Robert S. California law requires wait staff to be paid ABOVE minimum wage. For a regular restaurant that’s appropriate for unskilled non-professional labor. Yet wait staff in Califorjnia still expect a traditional tip, and now they want more. Absurd !

John Fox. LOL – You should proff your last couple of sentences before you call anyone an idiot.

If it’s mandatory, then it’s not a “tip”, it’s a CHARGE. You do not get a tip for providing routine service that’s simply competent. You EARN a tip for providing EXCEPTIONAL service. Oh yeah, I never leave a tip for anything sub par.

that’s why on parties of 5 (or 6 or 8) or more at most dining establishments the management allows a mandatory service charge of between 15% to 20% – because the larger the party the lower the tip usually as people get cheap and hide behind the put-it-in-the-pot “confusion”

servers, especially in “right-to-work” states like Texas that defy the federal minimum wage, can make as little as $2 an hour (slave wages) and a**holes like you don’t tip

you must ALWAYS tip – you are making up what the owners won’t pay in a fair wage – a server has to give terrible service to earn less than 15% and then you tell them they sucked as you give them only 10%

Texas has adopted the federal minimum wage as its minimum wage. “Tipped” employees–waiters and waitresses–can be paid as little as $2.13/hour, but if their tips don’t bring their hourly wages up to the federal minimum wage ($7.25/hour), the employer has to kick in the difference.

Slaves don’t get wages, which is one part of what makes a slave. The other part is choice, slaves have none, servers have plenty. I was a server in many restaurants and made twice what the cooks did (My wage was 2.38 an hour when I started). In some places, as much as lower management. You just suck, that’s your problem.

Sorry to inform you but I don’t ever HAVE to tip anyone. I am a good tipper in general when I receive decent to great service. The better the service and attitude of the server, the better the tip.

I am one that also will politely tell a server why they are not receiving a tip. I could be an ass and tell their boss why they are not getting a tip and cost them their job but I feel my way is fairer. Gives them something to think about and reflect on.

People with your attitude have no business being in the service business. We have the right to expect great service, you don’t have the right to DEMAND a tip.

Obviously a “bargained-for” worker with expectations that the world should be handed to him on a silver platter. “Right-to-work” in parentheses in order to imply condescension and sarcasm. I think you’re a clown, probably sucked as a waiter while putting yourself through community college. I tip generously when it’s deserved and there are never any surprises when the bill comes: they know they’ll get a good tip, or they know they are going to get stiffed. I actually enjoy leaving change for a tip when the service or the food sucks. It’s pathetic losers like YOU who must ALWAYS tip.

HAHAHAHA You must ALWAYS tip???? I’ll tip if I get excellent service. But you and waiters who think I should automatically fork of 15%-20% of my bill can go &uck yourselves. I ain’t giving you $hit if I’m not satisfied with their service. And you know what? I could give a flying rats’ ass that they can make below minimum wage. I used to work a minimum wage job when I was younger and society didn’t deem it worthy for tips. Bring food to my table is part of their job. I go to restaurants to enjoy the food not helping them out with rent and bills and if they don’t like their jobs they can quit.

In some areas of the country, a gratuity is included in the total. Some cultures are unfamiliar with the concept. They must be, shall we say…, cultured. Restaurants in Miami had to resort to mandatory gratuity in order to be able to hire and retain wait staff. Many more areas will realize that this would be beneficial to all. A customer could, of course, dispute the service charge, and a manager would make the decision to reduce the bill.

I taught my young daughter, many years ago, if you dont have the money to tip-you dont have the money to eat out. She truly appreciated the lesson when she later became a waitress.

If “the owners won’t pay in a fair wage” perhaps they shouldn’t be able to find any employees. Tips, by definition, are not mandatory, but a voluntary gratuity rendered by the customer. If you want a “tip” from every customer then have the owner raise the prices and pay you more. Bet that will work out for you.

I was a server for years in one of those “slave” wages states. I made GOOD money. Do you know why I made such good money? It was because I was EXCELLENT at what I did! I was great with customers and they paid very well. I worked at Denny’s and yet I made great money! Being a server is one of the higher paying jobs that you can do without college. If you get good, you move up to fancier restaurants and earn more. If my tips had been mandatory, I wouldn’t have worked very hard, because what would have been the point in rushing?? It is like socialism, you get a share without working for it. Sorry, that isn’t the way the world should work. I worked my butt off to make good money!

Excuse me, I must always tip? I generally tip 18-20%, even if the service is questionable. However, if the service is truly awful, I ask to speak to the manager and I will tell him or her that I am not tipping. As for eating in SF, I avoid it like the plague, I don’t deal well with piercings, tattoos and silly behaviour.

I think this is the one place we the Customer/Payer has control. See , our tax dollars get taken from us. Paying for a bunch of wasteful spending, including those on Welfare who REFUSE to work for a living. Now, if we are getting waiter/waitresses who demand to be paid more by the Payer, then work hard for it & Stop expecting it even when you are not good at your job. When you leave a customer & don’t come back; lazy. The standard for waiters/waitress is poor. It use to be the customer was made to feel like, you are spending your money here, you want a night off, I’m going to do everything I can to make you feel you are at a 5 star resturant. How may I serve you? Now it’s like you walk in & it’s, Yeah, what do you want?

I agreed with you up until you started the name calling. Real classy ! The entitlement attitude that many wait staff seem to have is where you loose the arguement. Telling us we “must” tip is ridiculous. The fact is that traditional tipping is optional and based upon the customer’s satisfaction with the service. That being said, I’ll tip 15% for typical service, poor service and the tip goes down. Bad service no tip and a conversation with th erestaurant manager. I do not hold the server responsible for the quality of the food, only for what they have control of.

the government taxes servers on %15 thats not fair when people can decide they don’t like a waiter `cuzz the kitchen messed up there order. that more often then not is the case. I am in the industry, and I have refused to eat and pay for some subpar things, but I never take it out on my waiter,didn’t pay but left a tip anyhow because the waiter was very nice.. tha food was do do. it’s not there fault. and yes if your server is unfriendly, let them know why they arn’t getting a tip, if you like the food pick another server. If there that bad they most likely wont be there if you return.

I was under the impression that the IRS imputed 8%, not 15% of your gross servings to be tip income. If you make less, you need a new line of business. If you declare and pay on a higher amount, you’re a fool.

When I worked as a waitress we had to go to a machine and enter what we made and what we sold. Regardless of what we actually made in tips we were taxed 15% on the 15% of the tips we supposidly got. Sometimes I paid more in taxes than I actually made. When you have large parties that take up your tables for most of the evening you always lose unless you get the rare person who realizes they have taken up most of your tables for the evening but only tip on a normal amount of food. I do not however think anyone should be forced to tip any amount. The government should only tax the server on what they actually brought in not assume they made more. Servers should definately make min. wage like everyone else including fastfood workers. Then the tip would be for outstanding service not an automaticexpectation. If there is a min wage in this country for all workers than these establishments should also abide by this rule.

Eric – tell it to the bartender, not us. Having worked in restuarants during my college days – my experience is that you’d get the occassional stiff or less than 15%, HOWEVER that is more than made up by people tipping over 15%. My actual average was in excess of 20%. It was sometimes in excess of 30% when I was serving wine (LOL – loved my restaurants 320% mark up there. Big tip for little work). Also – The fact of the matter is that no waiters I knew actually reported their true income to the IRS. We made out relatively well back then for a uneducated non-skilled job (as confirmed by your spelling and grammar).

I agree, atop is rewarding for quality service. I was trained in France and the tip varied with the experience of service and food the customer experienced. 25% will keep me from SF and restaurants will start booming at nearby cites. A customer is not in the business of subsidizing employees wages and benefits.
I tip 20% for good service.

Scott, I totally agree. The word TIP was originally an aconym for To Insure Promptness, and given to the Maitre D’ PRIOR to a meal. For some reason service personnel have come to feel they ‘deserve’ extra money for only doing their job. As a friend of mine says, “Minimum competancy should NOT be rewarded. It SHOULD be DEMANDED”.

Geez. I’m not in favor of a 25% mandatory tip, but reading these comments, I’m glad I don’t know any of you. I’d be embarrassed to dine out with most of the people commenting here. People thinking tips are some sort of excuse to act as a judge and nit-pick every little thing. 15-20% is the standard. That can range up to 25% in real big cities like Chicago and New York, at the diners discretion of course. If you won’t tip 15% for any reason short of actual vindictive actions on the part of the server, you’ve got a serious character flaw.

Are you crazy? Seriously,,,, If a server ONLY has 5 tables an hour, and each table’s meals total ONLY comes to $20 that is $100 an hour for tips which at 25% is $25 an HOUR! Yes they work hard. However, I have a son that works at a tire place. They work MUCH harder and he makes just over $10 an hour. They leave the bay doors open all year even when well below freezing. They have tires blow while working with them. Sorry, but what other profession with no education and only a few days training can make so much. Get over yourself.

OK there Zeke. Calm down. Let’s add some critical reasoning to your crazy math skillz. First off, there are customers for only about a third to half the time a restaurant is open, so your $25/hr is more like $8-12/hr. And that’s only if people are tipping at the ridiculously high rate of 25%.

I think mandatory tipping is dumb. Build at least the full price of minimum wage into the food, and then pay that wage to your employees. Then tipping, once again, goes back to being a reward for a job well done.

It’s not fair that the waiters have to take orders from others and bring them their food. Let them collect a 25% mandatory tip but do they really have to work for it? How horribly unfair. All these millionaires and billionaires eating out all the time. You never see them waiting on tables?!

If you want to see how mandatory tips work, go to Europe and experience the typical, uninterested, lackey clearing your table.

I live in Guam and the island caters to Japanese tourists. Most restaurants charge a 10% service charge because the Japanese don’t tip. I think that’s fair. If you want to tip above the 10% service charge for good service then that’s cool too. I always look at my service charge and add an additional 5%. If service is great I add 10%.

We also have local prices and “tourist” prices where they stick it to the Japanese. That’s not cool in my book as the island’s economy is 60% tourism.

I’ve worked as a waiter and you don’t even make minimum wage. Most people don’t realize this. Restaurants should have to pay servers at least minimum wage, institute a 10% service charge and then tip above that for exceptional service. That way servers never get shafted and great service can still be rewarded…

But Howie, you can stuff yourself into a cramped Prius taxi, use a stinking bathroom that has a no flush toilet, get hasstled by beggars every ten feet and help support it all with high taxes and now the priviledge of a mandatory 25% tip even if the survice sucks. Why would everyone not want to go to S F?

If you think servers need more money, give them a bigger paycheck. Don’t force patrons to tip a certain amount .As everyone else has been saying, servers need to work for a tip. And this is coming from someone who has always paid 20% if the service is a 7/10 or up. But, really, I do not like the idea of paying a mediocre server the same as an excellent one.

I went to a San Francisco restaurant and they first charged an 18% tip for a party of six. On top of that they demanded another 7% for siomebody’s health care. Raise it further and I will bring sanwitches or go to Subway. We are all not millionaires just because we want to eat out.

Waiters do not work for a paycheck you dolt, They work for the cash they take home THAT NIGHT. They do not work as a waiter in order to wait 2 weeks to get paid.
They ONLY reason that they have a paycheck at all at $2,13 an hour, is so that the employer has SOMETHING from which to deduct PICA and income taxes from. They would typically get a weekly paycheck for $5 after all the deductions have been taken out.

If a waiter quits, that they just leave without looking back. They have their cash for the night and there is no reason for them to come back 2 weeks later for a paycheck of only 5 bucks

Boy are you stupid. If they work for less than minimuym wage (relying only on cash tips) than the employer is breaking the law. Most waiters get paid “minimum wage plus tips”. Waiters who are worth thier salt also share thier tips (not evenly of course) with the bus-boys/girls so thier areas are cleaned and dressed rapidly to rotate tables. A server at a decent restaurant can clear 20-30/hr easily in tips. Top mark restaurants can clear a waiter 40-60/hr depending on number of tables per area and how long the groups stay (high mark groups tend to stay 1.5-2 hours vs 1-1.5 hours for lesser mark establishments but the tickets run $120-$200 versus $50-$80)

I worked as a waiter for 5 years, and never once did I expect a tip from a person. Not once.

And my check was my hourly wage (minimum) minus any federal/state tax withholding from what tips you reported earned. That’s the reason why the checks are smaller, not because you are earning less. You just get the “cash” in hand instead of on a check, and uncle sam and state want their fair share.

I got my tips by providing exceptional service, and trying to go above and beyond the call of “minimum wage”. I routinely made $50 more a day in tips and worked less hours than other co-workers because of that attitude.

The ones that “work for tips” were usually the single mothers who thought it was “cool” to pop out a baby for show and didn’t have the skills do do basic receptionist work, or the excessive party goers that only cared about how much they were going to get drunk or stoned that night. They were the ones that somehow thought refilling someones Ice Tea or Coffee once, popping in their order, slapping down their food and ignoring them the rest of the time they dined was an automatic 20% tip, and then would complain if they got anything less.

I’ve taken my experience from that time and applied it to my own dining out experiences. I have no problem “stiffing” an exceptionally poor waitress, and likewise I have no problem leaving a 25% tip for exceptional service when I can tell a server actually cares.

Servers in many states can and do pay servers $2.13 an hour plus tips. It’s lawful. My wife worked as a waitress in North Carolina for $2.13 an hour. What’s worse, the patronage didn’t tip well and in turn service sucked most times. You get what you pay for in those instances. Now in WA state she made min wage (6.75 at the time) plus tips. I don’t agree with some mandatory tip for servers and I would defenitely not dine out if it were implemented.

LOL – Great name calling. Who’s the fool here ? Do some research. Some states like California have laws requiring that wait staff be paid ABOVE minimum wage. Now go back to watching Sponge Bob while the adults talk.

Tips are for rewarding service; they are never mandatory. To suggest that there is a “required minimum tip” is simply silly since a tip is the customers means of rewarding service. The amount and decision to gran one at all is entirely at the discretion of the customer.

Is it a ‘tip’ or a ‘fee’. If they mandate it then it’s a fee and I will defenitely eat elsewhere. I’m not there to make payroll for the restaraunt which is already overpriced in ‘The Peoples Republic of San Francisco’ anyway!!!

Waiters in the United States can command astronomical relative incomes, since their profession requires no education, minimal prior training, and their tips are largely TAX-FREE.

Think of your counterparts in similarly developed societies such as Australia, New Zealand, and Western Europe where restaurant workers receive a very basic wage, are expected to provide similar standards of service, and receive NO TIPS about 90% of the time.

I don’t know what country you live but the ca franchise tax board and the I R S have your boss allocate you If you do not report at least 10% .. no audit just take it out of your pay check, after tipping out busboys and other members of the staff most restaurants require share the tips, it’s usually more then most servers make and are getting the shaft by the tax man

Tips are NOT tax free. You need to get your facts straight. Servers used to be able to get away with this about 20 years ago but uncle sam figured out a way to keep this from happening. When you clock out you have to add up your sales in a machine. The government automatically takes 15% of your sales whether you made that much or not then typically the rest. takes another 5 or 10% to give to busboys whether they did a good job or not. On top of that you are paid a little over 2.00 an hour. Do the math. One time I left work with 10.00 or 15.00 for 9 hours of work. Servers are also punished by patrons for mistakes made by kitchen help which they have no control over. Patrons in this instance should not punish the server but talk to the manager and get money taken off of their bill. I don’t ever think anyone should be required to tip a certain amount but I do insist that people get their facts straight before having an opinion on something they no nothing about.

vanessa, I agree with some of what you say, but you need to get your facts straight too. Do you really work in the industry. First off it’s taxed at 8% not 15%. Also California law requires restaurants to pay wait staff ABOVE minimum wage. So you do the math. Someone waiting in California gets above minimum, and still expects a traditional tip. My experience is that for the occassional low tip or stiff, you more than make up for it from the majority over tipping (including tipping on the sales tax). So you do the math: above minimum, probably averaging 20% in tips, but only have to report 8% to IRS so 12% in untaxed tips (so you also save 28% on fed tax and 10% on state tax). Of course you’d report that extra 12% to the IRS – right ?

Servers do share tips with busboys, food runners, and bartenders in almost all restaurants, even hosts in some establishments. And the amount they have to tip is based on the amount they sale for the shift (usually 3% to 6% of the sales), so if you don’t tip it costs the server money. Cooks are usually always paid over min. wage btw.

Yes we do. All corporate restaurants have a mandatory tip-out to bartenders, busboys, hostesses, and everyone else in support roles in the restaurant.
And while it is perfectly fair, no they are not making the same hourly wage. Servers are paid 2.13/hr, supporting staff is generally paid either minimum wage(in chain restaurants) or a little above.
In as much as I’m good at my job, I disagree with an automatic 25% gratuity because I don’t like the idea of someone, who isnt working as hard as I am, making the same amount. However, I have to admit that I bristle a little bit at some of the comments that have been posted here. People that say they’re good tippers generally aren’t and I can’t help but notice that the majority of the venom flowing out of these posts are from people who identify themselves as good tippers. But, as in any profession, jerks are just a part of life. You have to deal with the idiots who don’t tip, or don’t tip well, in hopes of getting a good table. I went to college, got my degree, and still choose to pursue a career in this industry because I love what I do. There are plenty of like minded servers who work hard and take pride in what they do. If San Francisco is considering standardizing a gratuity amount, it’s because there aren’t enough patrons who appreciate that effort.

I enjoy all types of apples Mr. Average Customer. At no point in my post did I imply that I had any interest in forcing anyone to go eat someplace that they didn’t want to and, in fact, I began my post by aknowledging that I think San Francisco’s proposed policy is misguided. So I’m not sure why you would say that there is a “problm with my attitude.” All I supposed at the end of what I wrote is, what should be a more than obvious supposition, that if San Francisco is considering adding a standard gratuity then they clearly don’t feel that there are enough customers that appreciate the work that the servers in their restaurants do.
In as much as I don’t live or work in San Francisco, this policy doesn’t benefit me in the slightest. Furthermore, I don’t need an automatic gratuity added to my checks because the service I provide to guests is irreproachable. The only slightly incendiary remark that I made in my entire thought was that the people who are complaining about this proposal are probably the very same poor tippers that this law would be aimed at. Since you took no issue with that part of my post, I’ll assume that that statement isn’t applicable to you. Be that the case, I’m not sure where our disagreement lies but I’m sure you’ll be gracious enough to enlighten me.

All of the people you are referring to above do make min. wage yet the server makes a little over 2.00 an hour in most states and this is totally legal. Servers are forced to tip out all of those people based on thet amount of the food that they sold not on what they actually brought in. Servers usually have to pay those people making min wage 5-10%. regardless of what they have done for the server. There should be tighter regulations on the eating establishments rather than the patrons. Please get your facts straight.

You were taught wrong. I see this mistake being spread all the time.There are common inaccurate claims that “tip” (or “tips”) is an acronym for a phrase such as “To Insure Prompt Service”, “To Insure Proper Service”, “To Improve Performance”, “To Inspire Promptness” or “To Insure Promptness.” These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows. (Insure is wrong grammar – If anything it would be TEPS – to ENSURE prompt service).

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of “to give a gratuity” first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning “to give; to hand, pass”, which originated in the rogues’ cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning “to strike or hit smartly but lightly” (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, “to tap”), but this derivation is “very uncertain”.

When I get good service I usually tip well above 15%. A complex meal or making extra requests and I’ll tip as high as 40%. I realize that bad service is not always the fault of the waiter. Having to cover extra tables because someone called in sick or disorder in the kitchen isn’t the waiter’s fault. But I want the option. I understand a mandatory tip for big parties…. otherwise the waiter almost always gets shorted. If the city makes it a law… and let’s face it… SF already has more laws against personal freedom than any other city in California which is known as the least free state in the country… well… folks will just cut back on dining out. The restaurant industry has the highest failure rate of any business… tack on extra charges in a dismal economy and watch all the vacant businesses.

if we had a livable wage and free health care we wouldn’t need the tyranny of tipping at all – minimum wage $20 an hour, six weeks paid vacation, free cradle-to-grave healthcare, and unemployment at 80% of salary … then we don’t need tipping at all

Why not get a different job? Maybe we shouldn’t be supporting restaurants that treat their employees as abominably as you say. Why is it the patrons duty to make up for the employer’s failings, and the employee’s willingness to put up with bad conditions? When I go out to dinner, at inexpensive eateries, most meals for my wife and I come to about $50, on which a tip would be about $7.50 to $8.00. If the waiter has only 10 tables a night, they’re getting about $80 in tips, or $400 per week (and that’s assuming small parties only – a 12 person party would easy bill $300, with an automatic 18% gratuity for $48 tip). A good waiter will make easily $600 or more in tips alone per week. So tips along would be $20,000 to $30,000 per year. For many people, that’s their entire salary.

For expensive resteraunts, it’d be double that, and when you start adding alchol to the bill, it’s even more.

Somehow, I’m not moved to increase the tip anytime soon.

And Radii, if you had a minium wage of $20 per hour, the average dinner bill would be $200 instead of $50, and your $20 would buy even less than your salary does now. And everyone got 6 weeks of vacation, free healthcare and unemployment at 80% of salary we’d need to tax everyone 75% of their wage. But you probably don’t pay taxes……

I have an idea radii. Why don’t you move out of your parents basement, get a real job where you make real money. It will require you to go to college, study and not stay stoned all the time.

Hell No I won’t pay a 25% tip. I can go to the grocery store, buy my own food and save my money. MY MONEY, not yours, not anyone elses, the money that I make from working 12 hour days that start at 6:00 am, because I’m an adult and I have responsibilities.

We need to move these slugs to Asia, Australia, and New Zealand or better yet Japan, where excellent service is expected and a tip is viewed as an insult.

You get a tip for going above and beyond… if you do poorly you get reported to the Head Waiter/Head Server or maître d’hôtel., and potentially get absolutely no tip … if you do average it will be between 10 – 15%, and above average 20%. Paying 25% (a quarter of your meals price) is not acceptable…

Raise the prices and pay the staff more if they “need” more money. A tip is earned. The Owner should pay his staff a “fair share” and quit hogging all the profits! Just because he had the idea, put up the money and worked his a$$ off to make the restaurant happen doesn’t give him the right to keep all the profits! Why ask the patrons to pay more when the Owner is keeping the profit to him/her/it’s self!

You are a genius! You said it right there, he had the idea, put up the money etc. It’s HIS MONEY! You don’t like what you are paid, go find another job. It is my right to pay you minimum wage. If you want to work for minimum wage, than that is your right.

You are not entitled to get paid anything over minimum wage, why do you feel like you are? Have you ever gotten a job from a poor man? Nope, didn’t think so.

So don’t say they are Hogging the profits. His business, he can hog them all he wants, you don’t like it, don’t work there.

Hey, that’s a great idea, let’s do the same for real estate agents NOT

A real estate agent gets paid on commission, if they don’t sell any real estate, then they don’t get a commission. Same with waiters.. Waiters don’t get paid just for showing up (other than minimum wage). They essentially get paid a percentage of what they ring up based on service. Thus the concept is to be a salesperson and sell more grub and drink.
Waiters don’t get paid for bringing food to the table, there are other employees that do that, They essentially get paid for selling the food and they get paid a commission.

I’m 30 years in the restaurant business a large part of that spent waitressing. I guess these waiters want to be unemployed since a lot of restuarants will be going out of business if this goes through. If you’re a good waiter or waitress you’ll make money. If you’re not you wo’nt it’s that simple.

There should be ZERO tipping. The food price should reflect the cost of the appropriate wages for all employees.

How is bringing me food different than the guy at Jiffy Lube who changes your oil? did he do it quickly? Did he clean the engine nicely or leave a mess? Was he fast? Why tip a waiter and not a gas attendant, Safeway cashier, Nordstrom sales associate or your kid’s teacher?

Wont affect me at all. I refuse to visit SF. The city could fall into the ocean and I could care less. Cities that choose side politically have to live with the consequences of people choosing to visit elsewhere. I’ll never be back.

I can’t tell you how many either… Oh wait I can. How about zero. Of course I don’t know too many waiters/waitresses at the Ritz. Staff at garden variety diners don’t make that much in a five hour shift.

TiP 25%???……And if the meal sucks they have give me 1/2 off the meal…..I taking a chance walking into their restaurant hoping for a good meal. If the meal blows that is the gamble they take…..Give me back 1/2 my money.

tipping is the most unfair way to pay someone for the work they do. The restaurant has passed the cost of their servers off to us and they are the only ones that can do that. It’s time that servers demand a living wage from their employers, not their customers.

You haven’t thought this through very well have you? Who do you think PAYS for those servers, whether it’s the employer or the customer??? If you say the employer, where does he get that money? FROM THE CUSTOMER!!! The customer pays for everything in that business…… The owner is NOT passing on the cost of the server. He is letting the CUSTOMER decide how much the server should get paid depending on how SATISFIED the customer is with the server’s service…….

JohnF. You haven’t thought this through very well have you? Why does a customer have to be responsible for the wages of someone else’s employee ? Tipping is a pain and inconvenience to the customer. Talk about a lousy business model. Let us pay the business for the product/service and let the business worry about overhead, employees, and making a profit. If the product/service sucks, they’ll go out of business. The free market will establish what will keep the business going.

I was going to comment on the economic foolishness of this proposal, until I realized that the article ignores the first thing they teach you about writing a news story in journalism school: Who? As in Who, what, when, where and why.

Who wants a mandatory 25% tip? You cite “restaurant workers.” What does that mean? A union? An association? Three? A hundred? A thousand?

Without this vital piece of information the story means nothing, and is not credible on any level, as you left out the key information to access it, and give it context. IE: My mother thinks the gas companies price in collusion. So what? We all do. Does that make it a news story? Not unless she is some kind of authority, or brings some kind of proof to the story.

That said, I sympathize with the plight of service people, usually leave 20% minimum, and think we’d all be better off with “service charges” the way they do it in Europe. But in this economy, the problem with the 25% mandatory tip is that it significantly (and psychologically) raises the price of eating out, and feels a lot like airlines charging extra to check a bag. (One could make the argument that if you’re going to go this route, do you also start charging for tableware, plates and napkins? Are they really part of the meal, or extras?)

Again, I’m all for service people. But realize that when a $50 meal suddenly becomes $62.50 (as opposed to $50, plus a tip), you risk a rising resistance to going out at all. It’s not the actual dollars, but the psychology that’s in play here.

Too bad the article doesn’t give any information as to whether this is wishful thinking on the part of one waitperson, or a serious proposal from people who could actually have some impact on its getting done.

You who live in San Fran allow this to happen, it will kill a portion of your economy. People wont go to sit down restaurants, they will order delivery or fast food. You liberals cant understand the economy is dynamic not static, in that every action the government takes will change the action of the consumer. Do it and watch your pathetic socialist wannabe city sink further into oblivion.

This is but one more reason why I won’t be visiting San Fran ever! It is the land of fruits and nuts and they really don’t live in the real world. Why would anyone subject themselves to the liberal mecca of the west? I certainly didn’t leave my heart there and I’m sure not going to leave my wallet either.

Another example of pure idiocy. No wonder California is going into the toilet. Next we’ll have to provide student loans. I love the food service workers and they do a great job for the most part. Its the policy makers that are blithering idiots. Look at what Moonbeam has recently done. What a joke.

You haven’t thought this through very well have you? Who do you think PAYS for those servers??? If you say the employer, where does he get that money? FROM THE CUSTOMER!!! The customer pays for everything in that business…… The owner is NOT passing on the cost of the server. He is letting the CUSTOMER decide how much the server should get paid depending on how SATISFIED the customer is with the server’s service…….

JohnF: Did it ever occur to you that cusomer simply wants a product/service and doesn’t want to be hassled with the responsibility of “deciding” the financial well being of someone else’s employee ? Let us pay the business for the product/service and let the business worry about overhead, employees, and making a profit. If the product/service sucks, they’ll go out of business. The free market will establish what will keep the business going.

I love the City, but the wait-staff industry here has got to get over itself. Some of the worst places for service (Zeitgeist, Hobson’s in the Haight, etc.) make a fortune in tips and they still p*ss and moan. No one is forcing you to be a server, kids. Yes, it’s a sh**ty job, but the market has picked up here.

If they ever make tipping mandatory, I’ll just go across the bay for dinner. The restaurants are just as good in Berkeley and Rockridge — without the whiny hipster waiters.

that would be on top of the Healthy San Francisco surcharge that appears on your check… the first tmie i saw that at CHapeau in the Richmond, i realized i would not be driving up to SF to dine much in the future… Gary Danko is worth it, and a few others..if THIS is implemented, no more…. we have plenty of fantastic places on the peninsula

I “was” going to take my son to SF next summer as part of a summer vacation trip, this story has taken care of that. I am a very generous tipper when it is warrented, not so much when not. If the norm is 25%, the good servers get penilized and the bad ones rewarded.

in parts of san francisco, being “Penilized” is something to look forward to!! Yeah, you can still visit the area..san francisco is just the tip of the peninsula, you can visit the wine country or the peninsula and enjoy the coast.. just avoid the city..

It’s easy to feel sorry for “minimum wage” servers, but by making their tip mandatory what the politicians are really doing is relieving restaurant OWNERS of their workers’ demands for decent wages and shifting the “base pay” for the job onto the hapless customers… The end result will be to (1) drive away all business to other jurisdictions and (2) eliminate any opportunity for better-than-average servers to make a bit more than their “don’t give a damn” co-workers. This is another hairbrained, downward-leveling leftist “fix” that’ll just make life more miserable for everyone! Who elects these jerks?!!

It appears you haven’t thought this through very well have you? Who do you think PAYS for those servers??? If you say the employer, where does he get that money? FROM THE CUSTOMER!!! The customer pays for everything in that business…… The owner is NOT passing on the cost of the server. He is letting the CUSTOMER decide how much the server should get paid depending on how SATISFIED the customer is with the server’s service…….

JohnF: Yawn…. you’re getting old. But I can be redundant too. Did it ever occur to you that customer simply wants a product/service and doesn’t want to be hassled with the responsibility of “deciding” the financial well being of someone else’s employee ? Let us pay the business for the product/service and let the business worry about overhead, employees, and making a profit. If the product/service sucks, they’ll go out of business. The free market will establish what will keep the business going.

Coming form the service industry I have worked for tips and the small wage that is given. I am against a mandatory 25%. I usually tip that amount for good service but I will not tip that mcu for bad service. I recently had a waitress when with a large group tell me that there was an automatic 18% gratuity on the bill. I told her if it is put on the bill that is exactly what she will get. If she thinks that she did a good job servring her patrons, leave it off and see what you get. She left it off and was extremely happy with her tip. I will not eat in a place no matter where it is if there is a mandatory tip added. It enables poor service,

Of course they want more of your money. If you eat out you must be wealthy, and therefore need to fork over more money to the poor, disenfranchised, working class. It’s the Obama way, out in Kalifornia!

Here’s yet another article designed to advance an agenda item under the guise of a “news story”. Yeah, let’s all help out the poor waitpeople by mandating an absurdly high percentage as the standard. You can see how popular this idea is that they’ve floated – the poll shows 92.3% against, 1.4% in favor.

Tips started out as a box by the door marked:
To
Insure
Promptness
Please tell the resturant industry if they want their workers to make more…. PAY THEM MORE! Don’t ask me to pay for something that is NOT EARNED!! Only in San Francisco can insanity look normal….

What the hell does the percentage of my bill have to do with the tip any way? Tip on the service, whether they bring you a filet or a plate of dry toast, it’s a matter of service provided. Not money spent. The worst service I’ve received in restaurants were in those that automatically included a tip in the bill.

So typical of the entitlement mentality, especially in SF.
Hard work, sacrifice… tsk tsk, you are ‘entitled’ even if you do a lousy job – look at the unions, why do you think they continue to fight for the ridiculous notion of collective bargaining and mandatory raises? You can be a complete slacker and get the same pay and benefits as the guy busting his butt, the losers and slackers love it!

Hmm – it depends what “is” – “is”. For crying out loud, everything us upside down. it’s a GRATUITY – a gift! Actually, “TIP” came from abbreviating “To Insure Prompt Service”. Another tradition perverted away. Go ahead and reaise your prices – that’s what it is. The Capitailst system will prevail once the consumer speaks by consueming elsewhwere. I can see “No Mandatory Tips Here” in windows!

MOST black people do not tip, I will not say all but 90% do not, and I am thankful for the 10% that do.
FACT: the government is now considering allowing those who RELY on government assistance to use their EBT cards at restaurants.
So now I as a server who pays taxes, I am going to have to pay taxes on $ that I have already given as a tax. This makes sense right!!! EAT S*~t EBT!!!
Get the F out of here is what I would like to say to the 90% who don’t tip. They should be eating MRE’ s. If they are good enough for our brave soldiers risking their lives, they are good enough for bums. STOP GIVING EBT’s & GIVE ALLOTED MRE’s. This would also prevent the EBT fraud of selling the credits for cash for pennies on the dollar or DRUGS. SIMPLE: u sell your MRE, u starve!!!

@teaj and others – This isn’t about race. At all. We all appreciate you using this forum to get that lil bit of racism of your chest, but let’s return to the issue at hand: the Quest for the Unearned. The collective mindset that gives you false self-esteem for not being a minority is the very same mindset that gives these waiters the balls to ask for 25% whether they earned it or not. You seek the unearned in spirit: you essentially say “I belong to this race, I deserve these merits by virtue of that association, NOT by my actual virtue.” Thus you hold your head high with pride and self-esteem, the virtues of good men, desptie you being a virtuless racist. These waiters seek the unearned in material gains: they esentially say “I belong to this group, I deserve 25% by virtue of that association, NOT my actual job performance.” Thus they walk with their pockets full, the virtue of hard work and effort, despite not having to work hard or exert effort.

STFU and spare me the richeous indignation. All they are saying is that blacks as a group have an observed and verified pattern of not tipping or tipping poorly. It’s not “racist” to point out the truth.

I waited tables through college. The black waiters did not want to serve black people. They were the ones that told us blacks don’t tip. They would insist that the manager makes us take the black people or it wasn’t fair.

It is best not even to respond to the bottom feeders; that’s how they get their kicks, the responses. My guess is that they are in the basement in their mommy’s and daddy’s house with their pants down around their ankles. Just ignore them, they get bored and go away.

Is that why some white waitstaff give me some attitude, when unlike them, I actually show them courtesy, because that’s how I would like to be treated and still leave them a tip within that standard15-20% range?

I voted YES, just because I already don’t go out to eat in SF any longer! The last time I went, there was an extra 4% tacked on to the bill, and I was told this goes to pay for free health care for everyone in SF.
So with a 25% tip, you can add sales tax and round it up, add an even 40% on everything you order and that’s what the bill will come out to. Bon appetit!

More than anything else, here is the probelem: most deserve a 15 – 20 % tip, but the government, leaches that they are want there 25%, when will they realize that they should not be taxing everything. Always an increase, never a decrease.

unless you’ve been living under a rock for decades it is known by everyone that you tip between 15% – 20% on a restaurant bill (it is okay to not tip on bottled wine you buy off their list) … and the rule-of-thumb should be that a server has to earn more or less: lousy service and attitude and you get less than the standard, superior service deserves an amount above the norm – simple

if we are going to instituted laws, we need fair and livable wage laws – the base salary has to be better – don’t focus on the tips

I have a better idea. Force establishments to pay a minimum wage salary to their wait staff before setting anything mandatory for tipping. There are places that get away with paying their wait staff well below minimum in places where people are low income and will not tip much if at all, even if they really want too.
Leaving that wait person foreced to claim money they often dont even get on their income tax just to maintain their pitiful but much needed little job.

There are places in wealthy areas where wait staff will pay the establishment for the privilege of serving their ‘upper-crust’ clientele, because YES – the money is that good.

How many do you think there are more of? lol.

Regulate the industry – not the worker or the customer. That way the tip remains truely a reward, and not something you have to lie about getting just to supplement the EBT card.

In California minimum wage is ON TOP of Tips ( or rather, tips are ON TOP of minimum wage. Sme states have a “tip credti” where tips are added up to get to the minimum wage. So your assumption in California is not correct. It is illegal to pay less than minimum wage even if a waiter is earing $50 an hour in tips.

I today typically tip on the order of 18 to 20 percent. If restaurants start forcing me to add 25-percent to a bill, I’ll start ordering a lot more fee-free to go orders. The net effect will be to transform this 20-percent tipper into a zero-percent tipper.

Note, too, that any number of restaurants will almost certainly begin advertising that they don’t impose this notional 25-percent service charge. What becomes of the restaurants who impose the charge then?

Another liberal welfare program. If people can’t make enough money on their own, just figure out some way to give it to them – usually at the expense of those of us who are productive human beings. Made up my mind to never visit SF again several years ago and have had that reinforced many times since then.

I hate – HATE – automatically-added gratuities. Guess what, SF restaurants: if you start adding 25% to the bill automatically, if I can not without getting arrested, I’m just not going to tip at all. Make it mandatory, I’ll stop eating out entirely. You can take that to the bank.

You know what? F@#@! tips! I am not interested how anyone gets paid and I do not want to play the game of tipping. I want my food and I want to pay for it without any stupid tips. Just add everything to the bill.
If I like the place I come back. If I do not like the place I do not. My tip is always 15%.

This is just a dumb idea. There will be no incentive for the servers to do a good job. A few months back 10 of us went out to dinner. The restaurant automatically added 18% for parties of 8 or more. The waiter of course knew that and was a complete jerk, snide remarks and all. And his tip for being a jerk was over $50. We paid the bill but complained to the manager on the way out.

I was a waiter all through college and grad school so I can appreciate both sides of this issue. Servers get paid on average (in the midwest) about 2.13 cents an hour. This allows management to make a killing on labor costs and offest the expenses of having to employ chefs at a much higher rate. Restaurants still gripe about their wait staff labor costs though LOL.
If and when servers start getting paid a living wage then the price of your food is going to skyrocket not because it’s costing the restaurant an obscene amount of money to pay wait staff salaries but because they are used to paying wait staff next to nothing and it’s hard to change old habits and procedures.
While I do agree that good service should equal a good tip there are some people out there who take advantage of the system and tip little or nothing regardless of the service they recieve. For example, I worked at a restaurant where I had to serve a party of 15 people. They were all very happy and one guy got up, shook my hand and told me it was the best service he had ever recieved in a restaurant. The lady who was paying the bill though totally stiffed me. Two weeks later the same party came in but with a different server. Same thing – stiffed. While I am against the idea of compulsoey tips i do support perhaps blacklists for parties and individuals who are notoriously bad tippers or who tip nothing.

I Think if you are stupid enough to live there or drive in for dinner then your stupid enough to pay for nothing. Sooner but most likely later the people of San Fran. will need to join the rest of us in this Reality and elect people who just want to run the City instead of perpetrating a social experiment

I ate out last night with 3 colleagues. The bill was about $200. We left $40. The day I have to leave more for someone who came to the table about 5-6 times, is the day I stop eating out. Sorry. And if you’re complaining you have to share your tips with the bus boys, etc.,…..take the complaint to the owner. I know many, many people who have either severly limited or eliminated entirely eating out. If this would stick, the restaurants will empty, except for the business diners on Mon-Thurs. Good luck surviving.

Mandatory tipping takes away the magic of the interaction between customer and server. If they are nice and try I tip at least 25%, and if I feel they are hurting I tip up to 50% just so they will get a happy rush at the amount. And if the service is bad i drop it to 10-15%. I agree with the above that by making 25% mandatory the restaurant owner can keep paying cheap wages and put more of the cost of the wait staff on the customer. Is that cool? Bear in mind their Social Security contributions will be even more paltry ultimately dropping their benifits in the long run as the increase in tip money will simply be skimmed off for immediate gratification and living expenses. Doing this will actually lower their retirement social security if they stay in the industry any length of time. No wonder restaurant owners support it as they have to match the employees social security withholding 50/50 in addition. It could drop their labor costs a good 15% while actually hurting the server.

I think its very fair? what about tipping to use of the barf bag? don’t stop there ! Give free rent and free everything, !!!!!!! San Francisco with all the funk and crime and silliness, what a bunch of bleading hearts, who’s drawing up these crazy ideas? What about the crime,dirty streets, corrupt cops, who sit at the starbucks and then go out on disability with full pay after 10 years?What a bunch of jerks! For a world class city HA HA HA HA, That Market St. is a discrase! I moved and will never move back to the good ol’ san francico toilet! From a native son…..

you dumb waiters have the nerve to tell me its going to cost extra, for ordering an extra item, or something. I have a job i knew when i left the house i was going to spend money. I don’t care, but tell me what your going to be tipped, you spoiled jerk with dollar signs in your eyes everytime i order something. yeah you deal with people and live off tips, your choice, pick up a hammer, get a degree, do something else if your tips don’t pay for your lifestyle.

Sounds like a Tax. Rather than an optional service Tip. The whole problem stems from the IRS taxing tips in the first place. It’s a gift not income. What about tips for doorman, or your a taxi driver? The IRS is the problem. Tips are now part of entitlement in the service industry. If it’s mandatory it’s a Fee.

You know how” tip” got that name? To Insure Promptness. Decades ago, people tipped the waitstaff before getting a meal served. I will tip 25% for outstanding service, but as the customer, it’s up to me to decide.

I’m very sorry the government taxes their tips, that’s *&*&S up. That ain’t my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government *^%SA in the a$$ on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn’t do that, I’ll sign it, put it to a vote, I’ll vote for it, but what I won’t do is play ball. And as for this non-college bs I got two words for that: learn to #^#@&^’ type, ’cause if you’re expecting me to help out with the rent you’re in for a big *&^%$’ surprise

So now the diners will be forced to pay a good tip even if the service is poor. This means the diners can expect more frequent instances of lousy service — because all the waiters know they’ll get their tip regardless. This country is becoming so demoralizing on every level. We’re nickel and dimed to death with no say in the matter. No wonder so many people are jumping ship while they still can.

I can’t wait for it to be implemented, and then SF people start whining like little babies because NOBODY is going out to eat any more!!

Then they’ll probably start sending a bill to your house to cover those poor people that can’t make a “living wage” working in a food establishment any more.
Oh Please do it!! Do it! Do it!!! I can’t wait!!!

SF used to be great liberal, free American City but it’s getting to be the polar opposite with the feel of a foreign oppressive gvernment. Too many rules. Freedom? Liberty? Leave me alone. I’ll find my own way home.

Ladies…please, there is one simple solution. Double the prices, pay your employees more. It avoids the embarrassment and awkward moments…and then BAN TIPPING.

You know, seriously if this is the most pressing issue in your life you should visit Mexico where the drug cartels kill thousands every year, sever their heads and leave them on the porches of family members.

Wow, Amazing! I consider myself a very good tipper. Because I am doing alright financially, if I get good service from a pleasant, personable server, who is working to make my experience at the business that employs them a better one-I frequently leave tips of 25% or more.

My wife, a former waitress, always tries to get me to tip LESS!

To suggest a scowling, lazy slouch would expect an additional 25% (or even 15%) of my money without putting in some honest effort or faking a smile is ludicrous.

Think about this. Even if the employee does not get a singe tip, they MUST be paid minimum wage. Owner/operators via law use tips to offset pay rates. The more you tip the closer the owner/operator gets to only paying $2/hr but you don’t get to give them a 1099 so you can claim their tips/salary that you pay.

Tipping has always been for rewarding exceptional service. It was never ment to replace the restaruants poor wages for their employees. I will give 15% IF I feel it was earned. To hell with San Fransisco.

Oh…PLEASE San Fran….PASS this mandatory 25% tip into law. I beg you. Then I can sit back and watch the utter destruction of the small restaurant business in your sad city and prove the fact that your progressive liberal fascist tenets always FAIL.

Dining out is regarded by the customer to be a joy, a diversion from the usual routine of how t they eat.
To introduce the practice of haggling is ill advised, it makes dining out about as much fun as an evening with a used car dealer.
Who cares? I won’t be dining in San Francisco with or without their ideas on tipping.

Tipping sure is a sore spot. I have a waiter at a certain local watering hole who I’m certain, between my wife and I, we’ve paid off his student loans.

HE’S THAT GOOD. We go out of our way to go to that place when we know he’ll be there, and we tip him outrageously. We bring our friends. We talk to the owner, who comes to our table when we’re there.

The owner sees how we treat his best guy, and how he treats us. And he knows how much business we bring to his establishment with business lunches and dinners. So he allows our waiter friend to comp us entrees, desserts, even my whole meal occasionally when we get somebody new hooked on the place.

It’s a mutual back-scratching arrangement where the waiter just goes crazy thinking up ways to make us and our guests “ooh” and “ahh” and on the back side he gets tipped. Always at least 50 percent of any comped items is in his tip.

There is so much fun and laughter in that place, it’s a part of our lives. I’ll be truly sad when this young man moves on and can no longer be our guy. He has learned so much about the business side, and I’ve learned a great deal about my own approach to customers from him! He got permission from his owner to print his own cards, which he gives to our guests. He’s the greatest salesman his boss will ever have, and he’s always promoting the restaurant. Kid drives a BMW for chrissakes, paid in tips.

Bottom line, waitstaff: there’s a right way and a very wrong way to be a servant. I own three small businesses with a few employees. I keep telling him if he goes for a masters in statistics or other relevant math heavy field, I’ll do my best to win him as an employee over the many other employers vying for his services. Because I already know how he’ll treat our customers.

Wait Staff can make the difference in a meal. A great waiter senses the needs of the dining party and tries to cater to them. I once went to a modest italian eatery where I tipped the waiter 150% due to the way he made the meal an experiance.

The best will work their way up to high dollar restraunts where the tip becomes a substantial amount of money. The best deserve this, the poor service providers do not. and hopefully they will seek another line of work. To mandate a certain tip level will do nothing but create another entitlement and lower the bar for excellent service. Imagine Michael Moore as your waiter complaining the whole time how unfair it is for him to have to serve YOU and then have to give him a 25% tip

Best advertisement I have ever heard for San Jose resaurants yet. In SJ the food is great,; the service is great; and the bums are fewer and less agressive. I’ll go to SF to eat at the next blue moon…..maybe! Good Luck.

Go to the bottom of any restaurant menu in San Fran and you will see that a San Francisco Health Care surcharge of 4% is automatically added to your check. This is in addition to the ‘San Francisco Health Care Ordinance.’ It appears as the SFHCO surcharge.

So SF already porks you without your say to provide health care for restaurant industry workers. Now they want to rape the consumer even further.

You know what? San Francisco–go for it! Your city is already hanging on by a thread. If it weren’t for the super rich people working in silicon valley buttressing your social welfare, you would have absolutely nothing but crime and despair.

Keep pushing the envelope. Keep pushing to see just how much people want to be your stooges. When they curtail their eating habits and restaurant workers start to lose their jobs, see how quickly your city descends into flames.

This is a joke. The last time visited SF was 18 months ago … beautiful as always but the hotel was so tired of explaining the taxes (last one was cuz convention business was down but needed to pay for the convention center and advertising) they posted all the letters they got from the City for each tax increase right next to the check in counter. That was more than likely our last trip there. btw, is it still OK for paid-by-the-City ‘homeless’ people to pee / poop wherever they like w/ police protection from commenters?

Imposing a 25% tip is a sure-fire way to kill the restaurant industry in SF (or anywhere). People tip for good service; and something short-sighted like this will lead to people voting with their feet and eating elsewhere.

It used to be not that long ago, that 10% was the standard for good service, now you’re telling me I should tip 10% for sucky service. If they suck, leave a penny so they know you didn’t just forget. I know the cost of living has gone up since the 60’s, but so has the price of a good meal. 10% works just fine.

We should do like in New Zealand..No tipping! That way everyone gets a fair salary and the gov’t knows how what income the workers earn. People work hard to atract and keep more clients, not to earn more tips.

The worst service I ever received in my life was during a visit to Nassau, Bahamas. Why? Because tips are mandatory under law there and the workers know they will get paid whether they give good or bad service! There was no incentive to excel at their job; consequently, the service was pretty much non-existent. A tip is not a right – it’s something given for a job well done.

Tipping has ruined the restaurant experience for me, which is why I always resist sitting down to eat and instead try to get all my meals to-go or go to a fast-food place. Plus even if I really did want to tip someone, I don’t want my tip to be taxed by the “Gang of thieves writ large”, i.e. the “Government”, or shared in a big pot with other workers.

At the rate they are going, San Fran is going to collapse and blow away. People will completely stop going there and those living there will have to abandon the sinking ship of socialist experimentation.

The real villain here is the Hotel/restaurant employees union. First, they fleece their union members – high dues. Then, they come up with this tripe which gives a blackface to all hard working service sector people.

This policy clearly will not fly. Case in point – when a restaurant hits me with a 15^ mandatory tip – thats all they are gonna get from me. They miss out on my regular 20 percent largesse.

Typical lib plan. Do what you can to take other people’s money against their will. After all, it’s not really your money anyway, its theirs. And libs are entitled to as much of your money as they like.

All in favor it! Why?
Well, because this will serve as an important lesson in the idiocy that is our leftist city by the bay. Had the gone with 15%, or even the 18% sometimes added for large parties, perhaps it would have gone through without much objection, and diners would just pay it and grumble a little. But 25%? Please.
Go ahead, charge it. Service will decrease, as they’re getting paid 25% anyhow. Business will tank. And then… Restaurants will start advertising that they will waive the charge. Competition, and not hand-outs, will rule again. The sharp ones will ask why we should expect different results from our state & federal government program. So…. Bring it on! (PS: Although I hate to see restaurants suffer in the interim–but you did open in Pelosi’s city afterall–what did you expect?)

We love fine dining and we are generous tippers for good service. We live 20 miles from San Fran. This would be just another reason that we will never go near the cesspool that is the city by the toilet….I mean bay.

We ought to strike & demand the 25% until they include it. I know lots of people on here don’t understand what we go through, so I say make it transparent. Make the price of the food item + 25% and put that on the menu and say gratuity is included (but not necessarily how much). Demand they do it, and walk out if they don’t. Believe me, we’ll get this one way or another. Greedy resturant owners can’t make a check without us, and fat slob diners can’t eat food better than their frozen diners without us. I don’t think we should stop at 25% either, at least in SF. 30% in cities like SF & NY, maybe 25% in Fresno, and 20% in the stix.

Oh, you union people crack me up. There are two types of people who join a union – those who only do it because they are forced to, and those jackholes like you “brothers and sisters” who are just terrible employees all around and want to do as little work as possible for FAR more pay than you deserve. This isn’t the 1920’s anymore. Every state has labor laws that ensure you aren’t overworked or discriminated against. Unions are mostly comprised of morons who are willing to part with a share of their check to make some do-nothings get rich, all under the guise of “fair working conditions”. Like I said, the others who join simply have no choice in some instances. I feel sorry for those people.

So take your union “family” garbage and go stuff it down your “collective” throats. You’ve never made any industry better, you’ve sucked tons of businesses dry, and you’re nothing but a bunch of lazy, entitled jerks who couldn’t hold down a job if you didn’t have some union rep defending your incompetence and abysmal work ethic.

Unions fight for good middleclass jobs. In my company we average $60k and have free healthcare, all fought for and paid for by the sacrafices of our union bosses, who btw only make $500k not the $30 million the company CEO makes and they’re doing a lot more good then the company CEO.

“Voting the unions down” is going to take food out of my families mouths. Are you trying to steal my family’s future and send us to the poor house with your union hating talk? My friend is non-union. He has to pay $150 a month for healthcare premiums, and if he is too worn down from long hours and needs just to take off, can get fired, plus he makes a good $5k less than me.

I typically don’t eat at restaurants simply because of the tip. You work for the restraint, the restraint should pay you.If you don’t like the pay, don’t work there. If he cant get waiters and waitresses he will pay more. It would all float to correct level and then the cost would truly;y be in the bill where it belongs and not as a tip. You incorporate all your costs in cooking and serving food. I buy groceries.

I worked as a waitress for MANY years… there were times I made good money some days not so much.. it doesn’t always have to do with the service but the pocketbooks.. WHAT if all of a sudden people who could only afford 15% for a tip QUIT eating out.. than what? restaurants would lose customers.. they would need less help.. people would get laid off .. unemployment would go up yet again..BTW claiming a server makes 15% of their sales is a FALSE assumption.. it depends on what type of place it is.. sometimes it’s only 10% remember there is tax on people checks and they DON’T include that in the amount for the tip.. when the government started that BS I quit serving to much hassle for to little money..

“My real name is Leonard Hacker. Hah, Leonard Hacker! Sounds like a gay waiter. Aw I don’t mean anything sexual by it. I just mean the guy who walks like he’s sliding around in the butter, when there isn’t any.” — Buddy Hackett

I worked my way through college waitressing. I worked hard for my tips. I worked at a couple places were tips weren’t allowed & we were paid more than the server minium wage ( $192 or so) But not much more. Tips are a reward for proper, prompt & efficient service. If there is a mandatory tip I just won’t eat out & they will lose my business. If these people were good servers they wouldn’t be whining about poor tips.

Another unfunded mandate, only this time from the private sector. Don’t worry, eventually they’ll get around to charging you for the tip even if you never eat in a restaurant again. The justification will be “the public good” or “the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many,” or something like that.

As a former restaurant/bar worker for over 10 years with some time spent on Stuart St., let me give you the scoop: Some servers suck and don’t deserve 25% and some other servers are fantastic and deserve 25%. So what would motivate the great servers to provide great service when they can just do a lousy job and get the same amount of gratuity? Servers are motivated by only one thing: PROFIT- much like the rest of the world, and perform based on the potential of increased profit according to their performance. Here’s an idea, if you want to help servers so much then STOP TAXING THEIR TIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE! I’ve had great tips, I’ve on occasion had no tips- how can the government ASSUME they know how much I was tipped then tax me ON THEIR basis? They’re vultures picking the bones of every productive person in society. This city is MAD(as in crazy.) Rewarding lousy performance with a guaranteed 25% gratuity will give you only one thing- increased lousy service. So enjoy being soaked for horrible service all ye do-gooder’s of San Francisco! You really know how to stifle excellence in performance. Thumbs up. I’d love to hear your comments, you can email me at adamdotpeartatgmaildotcom. RP 2012!

I bartender for thirteen years I always tip. Most times I horribly overtip. For ridiculously bad service I tip 10.%. If they mandate 25% that’s what everyone will get. The horrible people that used to get ten will be overjoyed and the people that went out of there way to provide great service and got tipped more will stop bothering. It’s ridiculous

As a Southern Oregonian who has the choice of Portland or Frisco for a vacation, this narrows the field. Let’s see… should I take my family to San Francisco where nudity and flamboyant street people congregate and now a mandatory 25% restaurant tip is on the table? I think not. S.F. is not family friendly.

This thread is disgusting. The sense of entitlement and the lording over servers as if y’all are kings and they simple slaves is stomach churning. Thank god I’ve never had to work in that business… I’d have to slit my wrists from the disgust at having to serve such low class, crude people.

The bellow is the guidelines cut and pasted from the IRS. A waiter or waitress has to post at least 8% but there is no actual 15% requirement that I know about. That’s how it was when I was a waiter a couple of decades ago when the standard norm was to report between 8 and 10 percent of your gross reciepts. In my resturant you had to tip out the busboy, bartender, and runner if you had one. Sometimes it came out pretty close. From the IRS:
If the total tips reported by all employees are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (unless a lower rate has been approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee’s share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. Show the amount allocated in the box labeled, “Allocated Tips”, of the employee’s Form W-2. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips. If the total tips reported by all employees are less than 8 percent of your gross receipts (unless a lower rate has been approved by the IRS), you must allocate the difference among the employees who received tips. The allocation may be based on each employee’s share of gross receipts or share of total hours worked, or on a written agreement between you and your employees. Show the amount allocated in the box labeled, “Allocated Tips”, of the employee’s Form W-2. Do not withhold income, social security or Medicare taxes on allocated tips.

The last time I went out to lunch with my wife it cost just about forty bucks, my silverware was dirty and she kept forgetting to replace it ended up using the wife’s spoon. She never brought our drinks SHE GOT ZIP, NADA, How about the restaurant owners pay a living wage

ROFLMAO! San Francisco TIPS? Went to that PUTRID city about ten years ago. Got charged over $20 for damned fish and chips which was HORRIBLE. I remember when I worked and lived in the S.F. area and was PROUD of living there. Now it is nothing but TRASH. Typical dem/lib solution – HORRIBLE service and HORRIBLE food with MANDATORY MONEY from private-sector taxpayers. How’s that “move in with me” going for PIGLOSI and FINESTINE? LOL!

Up the price and you will find yourself out of a job. No one has to go out to eat, and if they chose to go out they don’t have to stay inside the city.

It’s not like you have a captive audience, and the notion that hard times demands the 25% tip law is about as stupid an reason as I can think of. It’s hard times that keep people from going out to eat in the first place.

Why don’t restaurants pay a reasonable wage when you go To a restaurant you are going to make a purchase when you go in a store and work with a salesperson and do not make a purchase that is who should get a tip

Servers do not want a set wage, living or not, because the good ones make way more than that in tips even after payouts to the busboys etc. Do the math: 5 tables per hour x (.15 x $30.00) = $22.50 per hour. That is for a moderately priced dinner with a moderate tip. Change the 15% to 25% and the per hour income becomes $37.50. If they worked that for the 2000 hours most of us work per year they would earn $75,000.00 per year. A livable wage indeed.

The end of this article is totally incorrect. Very few fast food workers work for minimum wage. The vast majority earn $9+/hr basic starting wage where I live is $9.50/hr and min wage is $7.25 and at least one McDonalds has to pay $15/hr just to attract workers. I know servers that when tips are included make $50+/hr and this is at the national chain restraunts.

If you’re in San Francisco, you’re already getting f**ed 6 ways from Sunday in taxes and fees, if you’ve got any money left to eat out, might as well go all the way. The funny part about this, is that, once again, we see through the waitstaff, a little window on the behavior of a city culture that prides itself on being so sensitive…stiffing their waitrons on a regular basis. Yes. So Progressive.

I used to bartend in NYC for several years. I took pride in being the best in every bar I worked in and it reflected in my tips. To get to a high level, I paid my dues.To mandate a 25 % tip, completely, negates a lot of the incentives that make a waiter or bartend from performing the minimum to delivering superlative service. Imagine, some greenhorn who can’t keep up or can’t make a consistent and great Manhatan getting close to the same tip as someone who’s mastered their craft. Also, as a customer, if I get lousy service, why should I be obligated to tip anything? If you’re good, you’ll get your tips, if not, find another job.

Definition of GRATUITY
: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : tip

Definition of TIP
: a gift or a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated : gratuity

Any questions? Since a tip is voluntary for something that is received in the way of service that is beyond what is expected to have a mandatory 25% Tip or Gratuity is akin to allowing pickpockets to ply their trade unfettered by the law.

I believe in giving a healthy tip for services that exceed my expectations of the establishment I choose to dine in and also believe that providing a penny tip is warranted for poor service. It sends the message that I did not forget to tip but was very displeased by the service I received.

I have worked in the service industries all of my life and know that if you want good tips you have to earn them.

Now if they want to go “no gratuity is expected” and provide service personnel with higher wages and tack on that additional cost of business to the bill of fare in the published menu I don’t have any objections.

And if you are the hapless service worker in an establishment where tips are typically low, because of the quality of the bill of fare, you should really consider finding somewhere else to work where the clientele are higher class and the food is better.

if you want to define the rules then open your own restaurant. Such arrogance for someone to take a job as an employee then turn around and try to charge their costumers with your own personal bill (that they have no say in to boot). If you have no skin in the game (ie: risk) why do you believe you have the rights to call the shots?

Meanwhile increasing everyone’s dining bill 25% is going to do what? thats right, people will eat out 25% less, which means we need 25% less waitresses – remember the 99% of us have to live on a budget. Liberal stupidity knows no bounds.

Fortunately I don’t go to nanny state, socialist, San Fran. Tipping is a reward for good service. Sounds like it is the union city that is buying into this. Are they going to report all those tips to the IRS? The left has ruined this city.

Let’s try the liberal method. You bring in your tax return when you go out to eat. You show it to the attendant and if you make over 250k per year, you pay 100% tip. THen sliding scale down so if you make only 50k or less, no tip. That’s fair right, liberals?

a mandatory tip is not a tip. it’s a fee. if you want more money just ask for it up front. raise your prices. i tip well when i get good service. when i don’t, i don’t tip as well. that’s the whole point. it’s supposed to be an expression of your appreciation for a job well done.
am i the only one getting a little tired of people demanding more…just because?

A tip is earned. I generally tip between 15% and 20%, but if service is really bad, it can go down from there. I hate when the server fawns all over my husband, but acts like I’m not even at the table! This has happened, and when it does, the tip can go down to zero depending on how bad it gets. If a server wants a tip, they need to earn it.

OK how does this work if I and three others have a bill of $400.00 but at the next table four people eat for $200.00 why would I pay 25 percent on the additional $200 dollars when no more work was done? A tip is a job review how did you do your job for that table? In other words no matter how good you do your job you get top dollar where is the incentive in that. I don’t think so I will decide how much you get and if I can’t make that choice then I will eat elsewhere. Once again someone deciding for you, it’s not your decision it’s mine.

***NEWSFLASH*** Hey Davey – you obviously don’t live in California. California law requires restaurants to pay their waiters ABOVE minimum wage. Yet the servers still expect the traditional tip, and now they want more. Ridiculous !

I don’t tip because society says I have to.
If they really put forth the effort,I’ll give them something’ extra.
But this tipping automatically,it’s for the birds.
As far as I’m concerned,they’re just doing their job.

What’s the difference between this and Obamarx’ “spread the wealth around” credo with YOUR money? Based on the poll results here, people vote as Americans should on this issue yet the Socialist in Chief still has support in the 40% range. Why can’t they get it?

Let’s incircle San Fransicko, drop leaflets for 24 hours that unless all of the progressives commit a Jonestown Harry Carey, we will turn it into Dresden (ala WWII)…….. Let’s see how fast the cowards straighten up,

Better solution – have the federal government collect the 25%, deduct taxes, and refund the rest to the server.

That can be done simply throughout the country with a small micro-agency. Those in big cities can get a bigger refund, those in smaller areas get less.

From each according to their means, to each according to their needs. Redistribute the wealth, in this case from those who can afford to eat out to those serving and our union brothers and sisters in the back of the house. Russia gave up on socialism too fast, god willing Obama will take us to the promised land.

TIP = TO INSURE PERFORMANCE – The way it is done is to place the incentive on the bar. The wait staff sees it gives great service to win it, if the patron agrees, then he/she/it leaves it for the staff.

Still not much interested in eating in San Francisco, too many teabaggers.
and I don’t want to associate with anyone who is against my president like teabaggers are!!!

100k is not enough. They need free benefits, handicap parking cards, box seats at 49ers and three votes in the general elections, plus, of course, a yearly trip to FL Disney. No, 100k is not enough. Don’t be so stingy with other people’s money. Politicans are very generous. We are Detroit.

I work part time at a job where i make minimum wage however i get commission (i would loosely affiliate commission with tips). I am 2 months away from getting my degree in chemistry so its a job on the side for now. Because i work hard and give my customers excellent service I can make over $20/hr. $20/hr in a part time job making a base of $7.25/hr.

I tip well.I’ve had jobs in the past that paid horrible hourly wages so I know what it’s like to rely on tips but to impose a manditory tip is wrong.If your courteous and do your job well the money will roll in.There’s always gonna be a cheap sob no matter where you go but there’s always people that give you tips that makes up for the cheap ones.

I don’t dine in San Francisco. Stopped years ago because the wait staff in too many places is terrible. I am not talking about dive restaurants but good to upper class restaurants. Is it a lack of training? No probably not. It is a lack of caring and an entitlement attitude. S.F., my neighbor a few miles to the north lost me because the attitudes in much of the waitstaff is wrong and it is unique. I travel around the country a lot. I go to good and bad places and rarely do I ever get treated as bad as San Francisco. AND FOR YOU who would suggest I am a bad customer, I have NEVER complained in a restaurant. I tip high for god service and low for bad service. It is when you tip, or at least what I learned as I grew up, that you reward the server for their service and use as a general rule of thumb a 15% rate for average service. I have given a $100 tip on a $70 meal and I have given a $7 tip on a $70 dollar meal… and not for any other reason than performance was bad.

I generally tip 20%, but if it becomes mandatory, I very much doubt that I’d patronize that restaurant…or that CITY’s restaurants again. I resent the forced aspect of it as much as the Welfare mentality of entitlement a mandatory tip implies.

The comments by the servers that have made great money because they are good at what they do says it all. Most of the other comments by the food industry workers are from people who give minimal service, are poorly trained and never bother to learn their job well. Too many times I see the server drop the food on the table walk away without asking if you would like anything else, not bothering to check the table for forks, napkins, water,etc, never to be seen and then you have to hunt them down and wait for them to prepare the check. And they’re not busy and it’s not the cooks fault! Often you will see them chit-chatting with other staff. Also, I do not necessarily tip on a percentage basis when the bill includes expensive drinks and high priced entrees. Tell me why such a bill for $150 should be tipped at 20% when a server at say Applebees who worked just as hard should be tipped at 20% on a $50 bill. This proposal is yet another socialist bad idea, like the president!

If servers were earning minimum wage, I’d argue to keep it up to the diner. But restaurant owners just throw it back in the server’s faces that they HAVE to make up the difference between sub-poverty wage and living wage with tips. And Congress lets them. Some owner’s and hotels actually KEEP the server’s tips. It’s obscene. I usually hate anything SFO dreams up, but this is not that bad.

I am an American living in Central Europe. One of the defining differences in our cultures is tipping. In Europe, wait staff are paid a fair minimum wage; tips on top of their salary are a bonus. Therefore, there is no incentive for a server to provide better service. The result for an American is nothing short of frustration at the lack of service in even the nicest restaurants. Tipping should be expected but not mandated. In the end, it is based on the (perceived) quality of service.

Oh, look, more blathering from the food servants, asking for more money. I rarely go out to eat, mostly because restaurant prices have sky rocketed and the stigma attached to tipping has become unpalatable. I’m a generous guy, but I also have principles…the standard service goes like this: “Hi, I’m so and so and I’ll be your server tonight! Can I start you off with some drinks?” The drinks always go well, and I’m always pleasant towards my waiter…but the real meat-and-potatoes of whether or not I’ll be giving a good tip comes from how they are from here on out.

Did the server come back in a timely fashion with our drinks? How long after we’ve had our drinks delivered did he or she come back to see if we’re ready to order? Once we’ve ordered, did he or she care enough to press the cooks for a timely delivery of our food? Once I’ve had my food delivered how many times did he or she come to our table to check on us to see how everything was and if we needed anything?

Most of the time, service is “OK”…meaning they’ve engaged myself and my party at least 4 times during our stay. They’ll get 10-15% of the bill as a tip because they’ve done a decent job. Were you aloof, obviously not concerned with myself or my friends and family? You’ll probably get 5% or nothing. Were you outstanding, outgoing, caring, efficient, a real pleasure? I’ll tip you up to 25% of the bill because I’m a nice guy.

Well here goes the Government will demand that they report 25% as tip income now smooth move.They required 15% because there was no set amount people tipped so they averaged it out now they will know 25% is tips. If the restaurants are so adamant about it’s about time why not give their slave labor a raise.

Hey you voting loons in SF, thank your politicians. They are nuts. Have you ever watched any of them on t.v. and their policies? Yea, well you voted for them or you let them get elected. So they voted in a law that punishes business, the workers and everyone else in business. Don’t expect me, when I visit you city to pay an additional 25% when the bill comes. You voted, well when I pay the bill I vote and tough S$$t. Get rid of you idiot politicians and laws.

I always tip for service. Good service, good tip. Poor service, well–not so good. Collect from the idiots you vote in.

Apparently the restaurant owners are not paying their employees a fair wage for a fair day’s work. The tips should stay the same. The owners can incorporate the increase in the price of food. The owner should fire the server for bad service, not the customer.

this whole “mandatory” 25% tip nonsense is a PERFECT PERFECT example of the entitled liberal mindset, so naturally it comes out of SF. go ahead and impose a mandatory 25% tip. go ahead, do it. I dare you. I will laugh as the SF restaurant scene implodes overnight.

restaurants have ALWAYS had the option of charging higher prices and paying their employees more instead of allowing their employees to take tips. but what restauranteurs figured out was that having their service staff work for tips not only cut down on payroll, it also lowered prices and aligned the interests of the server with the interests of the guest. everybody wins this way. go ahead and reinvent the wheel by making tips mandatory and, just like any other liberal tax policy, you are going to see service employees earning LESS, not more, as patrons stay home to eat.

I’m a waitress, and I work at a private club where tip reporting is not required, but voluntary. I don’t agree with mandatory tips, it is up to the customer. Some people are crass and always will be: Eff ’em. I just don’t think it should be mandated.

What sort of a mandate is it? Wouldn’t it be up to individual restaurants? It’s not like this is a law handed down from the SF City Council or anything…

Soooo San Francisco. Doesn’t matter the job you do, it’s an entitlement. I don’t live there, but I’d be looking at eating establishments outside the city every time I visit. 25% mandatory? Considering how much some of the restaurants costs, I guess it’s a tax on the rich. Again, how fitting for San Pelosi / Feinstein et al.

If restaurants want to insist on a 25% tip, then they should jack up their prices 25% and put up signs saying “no tipping.” Why don’t they just do that? Because the extra 25% is psychologically invisible as people are ordering their food. But when they see that the steak costs $25 plus tax, they’re going to get the hamburger instead and remember to dine somewhere else next time, like the place across the street that only charges $16 for the same steak.

I will ask you the same questions I asked the guy from whom you stole this weak story. Where is this story coming from, other than Arnow’s article? There is no mention of it on the internet prior to his post., and no mention of it today other than rip offs like this. Did you check it out, or did you just see the article, and knew it would draw comments, because this is a conversation that people will participate in anywhere? A tired conversation, I might add.
Was there a meeting among these “workers” who are allegedly pushing to raise the tipping standard? Does some waiter have a blog, or a meet up group where they are talking about it? Just post one link that points to an actual source, or origin of this story. You got 350 people pretty worked up over some phony story. Are these the standards of CBS? Kinda weak.

@Commenters.Every single of you are the reason waiters want to strangle their guests, even you who are waiters.
lvfrankg
BluntDinerz.com

Someone puts a gun to my head is committing suicide. I’ll just avoid restaurants with any such dumb-axx tipping rules. All a restaurant has to do to lose my business is to tell me 1] that I must tip and 2] that the tip must be this or that percentage. BTW, I usually tip 20% — but that’s my business — that’s not the waiter’s business or the restaurant’s business.

TIP stands for To Insure Preference. If they institute a mandatory 25%, its no longer to insure preference, but To Extort Money (TEM). Whats next? If feels like we are rapidly becoming a 3rd world country where everyone takes a bite out of your wallet if you want to have a good time, or easy time out of a luxury or necessity by charging a TEM. God Forbid.

next time you go out to eat or drink, note those around….blacks, minorities, and gays do not tip….restaurants hope that whites will pull up the slack….draining whites is becoming more and more prevalentl….there are almost as many citizens on the receiving end as their are producers. .

Restaurants actually have the best way of optimizing cost by eliminating tipping and, for that matter, good service by firing poor performers.

Tipping is similar to a blind raffle. An item (waiter) can over-earn real market value (hourly fair wage) if there are more entries (diners x menu cost). A $100 ipod can earn $200 etc. if you sell enough tickets… Restaurants should simply pay a fair tmv wage and optimize the overall dining cost… Tipping is an inefficient price optimization strategy due to uncoordinated paying parties…

The restaurant workers want a tip? Here’s a tip: Be glad you even have a job!! Especially in California with so many people out of work; consider yourself fortunate. As for the restaurants wanting this; I’m sure they don’t. People would simply eat out less if something like this were to be imposed. Restaurant workers should just learn to be thankful for what they have. And yes, when I have encountered mandatory tips the service has been bad.

I will NEVER go to a place that has mandatory tipping! I tip on service and when it is good I tip well above average.

This is the LAST thing America needs right now. To have entire generation of new workers start in the food industry and get the idea that pay for work is guaranteed no matter how well they perform. Too many people, especially, the SF types think that life should be and CAN BE made guarranteed by government. It cannot be! The evidence of that is they will NEVER get my business if they expect a guarranteed 25%

Work hard and you will be rewarded for it. Don’t work hard and you will suffer for it!

I will quit travelling to San Francisco to eat out if I am to be forced to give a tip of a certain percentage. Tips are for additional service received and for a restaurant to demand that I tip their employees and the rate at which I must tip them is not only stupid – it defeats the purpose of tipping.

I will stop coming to the city to dine if this becomes standard practice.

TIPS means: TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE. Some people don’t deserve any tip and others deserve the max. My wife and I will usually give two times what the tax is. It works out to about 15 to 20 percent. But only if they deserve it which is most of the time. I am against rewarding bad service or any other bad behavior. PC is destroying life as we know it and creating a world of lazy sluggards that think the world owes them. NOT………….

20% is what you should tip on great service and that should be pre-tax. If the server gives you a shot or you have some kind of groupon/fb/livingsocial deal, tip on the entire (projected) check, pre-tax.

Astronaut Barbie for $19.95 and Divorced Barbie for $265.95. The amazed father asks: Its What!? Why is the Divorced Barbie $265.95 and the others only $19.95? The annoyed salesperson rolled her eyes, sighs, and answers: Sir, Divorced Barbie comes with: Ken’s Car, Ken’s House, Ken’s Boat, Ken’s Furniture, Ken’s Computer, one of Ken’s friends, and a Key Chain made with Ken’s balls!

On top of sales tax and everything else, what this would cause is a decrease of business in SF from people eating out, and more waiters are going to lose their jobs. I’m not so sure that’s a great idea in this economy. As for tipping – I always tip. I tip higher if the service was great. It just seems polite. But 25% is a lot if you already have a high bill.. people are already eating out less. This is just a terrible idea – for waiters also.

It is absurd that a demand for a guaranteed tip is to be implemented. If they do this how about a guaranteed level of service and food quality? So what happens if the restaurant does not come through on the bargain? How about don’t eat out at all, pretty soon these greedy wait staff who want a tip guranteed will find a new job I guarantee it!

Having run a large restaurant, I am an unusually high tipper because I genuinely appreciate the effort it takes to provide excellent service to diners. I’m sorry, but 25% is too high, period. If this stupid idea becomes a ‘law’, or ordinance, I won’t bother visiting SF again, or, if I do, I won’t be eating out.

If they are being taxed too much ontheir earnings then blame Washington, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Maxine Waters and lso Gov. Moonbeam Jerry Brown. Afterall you clowns voted him in so he could give al the illegals free school. If you want to blame someone for your lot in life, maybe you should look in the mirror

If you don’t like your waiter job then quit. The current general rule of 15% is more than enough tip unless the service is out of this world. Quite frankly a tip is for quality service. If you give poor service you get no tip from me. maybe you nimrods need to be going after your employer for a higher wage. As soon as the rate is raised up to 25% mandatory than I start eating at home. You people in SFO live in utopia but it is actually the land of fruits and nuts.

Tips should be abolished. The whole idea of (mandatory) tipping is backwards and demeans the waiters to dependent servants who are unable to make any kind of financial commitment, because their guaranteed income is so low. The owners of bars and restaurants, the actual entrepreneurs are the ones who should carry the risk of their business going bad. Instead they offload that risk to their personnel and make them live unhuman lives. Makes me wonder why waiters accept this kind of treatment, if they are willing to complain if the tip is 1% below expectations.

The price listed on the menu should be what people have to pay.
A tip is for *extraordinary* service.
This means that tipping should not be standard, because by definition something extraordinary can not be standard.
Just fix the price on the menu, pay employees what they’re worth and stop all this emotional blackmail.

a tip is dependent upon whether you provide good service or not. You automatically require 25% for a tip then you are rewarding poor service. These people need to yank their head out of their your know what and quit thinking they are always entitled to a tip

so basically as a restaurant patron…who presumably went there for food…you want to manage the employees as well? That is what you are DOING via the TIP scam. The idea is they hire just anyone, and pay them less than min. wage, plus tips, and if they are sorry, the PATRONS will run them off by not paying any tips. That is a MANAGEMENT job, not the job of a PATRON.

I’m kinda confused here. If a tip/grauity becomes mandatory is it still a tip/gratuity or has it become a tax????? I tip based on service with the understanding that waiters generally get low hourly pay because they earn tips. Tipping is a form of reinforcement, i.e. if you get bad tips you either get another job that doesn’t base your income on your level of service or you change your behavior and provide a better level of service. If you take that away you get mediocre to poor service everytime because there is no incentive to provide anything better. Another drawback to this is that the 25% will be added to the bill, but I bet there will still be another line for an additional gratuity.

No one is FOOLED….it is all about PAYING the employees. How about restaurants just raise the price of food, and pay their wait staff a wage with NO tips….the entire industry has attempted to make the public responsible for managing their employees and providing a substantial part of their income outside of the cost of food. I say let the restaurants go to HELL and ignore eating there until they take the OWN problem in hand. Eating out is entertainment. Not a necessity. There are other ways to enjoy life.

Sounds like a soviet style system. You will pay such and such. As a man told me pro Socialist from Holland. The government should regulate if you can open a car repair place in your community if theres 2 already and the town can only provide a living for 2 garages then the government would say no to the other guy wanting to open a 3rd one. My response was so the government enables shotty service and price gouging. Because the government deteremined who can success and whoi can’t and enabling poor quality at higher prices with no choice. Free market would eliminate poor quality and over pricing but Government is an enabler. Look at Solendra, GE paid no taxes and got loans

Tips are voluntary and if the service sucks I give 0.00, and at times service has sucked and the waitress got 0.00.
Good service equals a good tip.
This is another “sense of entitlement” nonsense from the slackers of society feeling they are “owed”.

There is a reason it is a percentage in the first freaking place!
As the cost of the meal goes up so would the amount of the tip.
Tip percentage should never go up.
I remember tips were 3% I guess one day you will pay over 100% tip.

The solultion is to wall off California and kick them out of America. Pretty soon they’re going to be demanding that the government give them all someone to hold their underwear in the morning so they can put their feet through the floor without falling.

Anyone that pays a manditory 25% is nucking futs. Average or sub-average performance does not automatically get paid for….ooops, I forgot about all of you liberals on the dole and voing for the morons that run your city and state…

Just stop all this foolishness and stop tipping. Pay the servers a higher wage and no tipping. Then the servers can see all the taxes that will be levied unto their heads , the sic sec/medicare tax that is to be paid by both employer and employee; no funny business on hiding tips above 15% from taxes.

I have always had a problem with the percentage of the bill as the norm for a tip. The workers in the lower end business have worked just as hard or at times harder and are due the same amount of tip. But if this become the standard to add the tip on the bill automatically, I will cut out my eating out as much as possible.
If this is going to be the new tip practice, the business should add it in their prices and note no tipping.

As a server/bartender, you are your business
Your actions determine your wage
So instead of earning your pay, we’re just going to mandate it.
1st result, service will drop, because why try?
And forgive me but isn’t Tip Credit illegal in California? Don’t you all get min wage to start plus tips? No wonder you all feel entitled…

Tell these people if the Govt would stop taking more and more of our money, there would be more for tips, eating out and charities. That spurs the economy not money sent to solyndra, Solar one, whatever and billions of $’s lost and bankrupted after they kick it back to Obama and company.

I can’t think of a more effective way to encourage foodies and regular folks to cook and eat meals at home instead of at SF dining establishments… unless Gov. Moonbeam issues Home Food Mandates specifying which foods may be eaten on specific days of the week, and how many times you must ‘eat out’ if your bank balance is above $99.99 that week.
Tips are a way to reward good service, and without an incentive to provide same, I doubt it will add anything to the dining experience except frustration and disappointment if it isn’t variable and proportional to service rendered.

A tip is for services rendered and based upon the excellence or lack thereof. I have tipped as much as 50% of my bill (Tax included), as well as, not left a tip at all. This is done in varying degrees of service. This, too, is another “expected”, “entitled to” payment whether or not they have earned it.
When you have EARNED it, one will usually get tipped well…

Service already sucks in most cases. I tip based on the quality of service I have received. If the server cannot do a simple thing like make sure I get silverware and keep my drink filled, they are not going to be rewarded for being lazy. I understand that sometimes they get overwhelmed, in that case, they need to help eachother. I have been to restaurants where there was a team of servers covering a section only to have my drink sit empty for most of the meal. This should not be rewarded with a mandatory 25% tip. Additionally, when I pay and get shorted on my change, that comes out of their tip. I routinely run into servers that will keep change instead of giving back what they owe me. Sorry, I may sound harsh, but I think you should get paid for what you do. It is something that is earned, not entitled.

If people really think 25% should be the standard and service level and ability to pay is of no consideration, how about we simplify things a bit and let the employer pay their employees and eliminate the game. The menu prices should just increase 25% and the menu should tell the Customer that tips are unnecessary because your Server’s tip is 20% of your bill.

I tip 20% if the point of sales machine has a %, as I use my credit card. If I pay cash, I rough-estimate 15% rounded up.

But the point is that I always tip of it’s made clear that I can tip via the point of sales machine.

Do I tip at fast food places? No, because the POS doesn’t have the option anywhere.

The entitlement mentality needs to stop. I don’t need to tip, but I feel that not tipping is the same as a dine and dash. Always tip at places you frequent. If restaurant employees want to ensure they get tips more often, they need apply a guilty-conscience factor when paying. The option to tip must be on the receipt or payment system.

Fast food restaurants do not provide at-table service, and thus tipping is not an issue. The lower fast-food wages permit entry-level workers to gain valuable work experience, and allow older workers to moonlight. From there, they may choose to move on to table-service restaurants that involve tipping. The tip-less fast-food joints also permit segments of the population, such as families with children, to eat out who would not otherwise be consumers of restaurant food. Thus everyone benefits from having more choices rather than forcing fast-food to be in the same league as table-service food.

25% is not enough. Only wealthy people eat in the restaurants that will be affected. The poor eat at home or at McD’s. The tip rate should be 100% of the bill. It is largely a tourist tax or a business tax deduction for locals . Hotels and parking garages gouge the tourists – so should the restaurant server. Make the rich pay or stay away from SF. The minumum wage in SF should be 50 per hour and all workers, including part timers should have free benefits. The poor own the votes. Tax the wealthy and the tourists! They have no real votes. Get them now! Raise the airport taxes, raise the tolls, tax private tuitions by 100% and tax the churhes; raise the gas tax by 100% and save Gaia now! We own the votes, we own the police, we can do anything and force compliance. Charge the wealthy for fire protection, ambulance service and the bay views from their mansions. Raise the real estate tax by 100%. If they complain, we own the police. We own the votes. We are Detroit!

TIPS
To Insure Prompt Service
Was originally given before being seated. More or less a bribe.

It then became a ‘thank you’ for prompt good service, and was withheld or reduced based on the service or food quality. Feedback to the establishment that they have issues good or bad that must be recognized. This is important to any business to ensure that they correct those problems that exist or that they understand that they are performing well.

This new law is simply a 25% tax on diners. I would assume that the restaurant business will die a quick death if this were to pass.

Note: There are common inaccurate claims that “tip” (or “tips”) is an acronym for a phrase such as “To Insure Prompt Service”, “To Insure Proper Service”, “To Improve Performance”, “To Inspire Promptness” or “To Insure Promptness.” These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows. (Insure is wrong grammar – If anything it would be TEPS – to ENSURE prompt service).

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of “to give a gratuity” first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning “to give; to hand, pass”, which originated in the rogues’ cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning “to strike or hit smartly but lightly” (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, “to tap”), but this derivation is “very uncertain”.

Sorry – This whole “living wage” idea for unskilled minimum wage earners working meanial labor jobs is a crock. Waiting for the most part is a temporary transient job. They need to get some viable skills (talent, trade, or education) and move up the ladder to something else. Unless you wait at an expensive 5-star restaurant pulling down big tip bucks (and some certainly do), you shouldn’t view waiting as a “living wage” type job.

“How much should I tip?” Whether your service is good or bad, San Francisco Restaurant workers want to implement a 25% standard tip onto your bill for you. Is this fair?”

“San Francisco Cracks Down On Underpaying Employers”

Well the two headings above are certainly oxymorans. If the restaurants would pay their people a decent wage instead of $2.00 per hours plus tips (the plus tips amounts to the customer paying the restaurants payroll) they would not have to come with their hands out asking for more, what are they teh government? If the restuarants can’t make it paying their people two bucks an hour the go out of business I certainly will not visit restuarants that up their tips to automatically charge their cliental or customers because of there greed and not wanting to take respnsibility to take care of THEIR employees as they are not mine!!

Sorry – but your $2.00/hr argument is wrong. You would be correct for many other states, paying waiters less than minimum and their needing tips to make it up, HOWEVER, California law mandates that wait staff be paid MORE than minimum wage. Yet they still expect teh traditional 15-20% tip. And now they want more. Absurd !

I don’t like the american tiping culture as it allows people with issues to lord over others and encourages employees to behave like sycophants. Decent standard wages without any tiping at all are much more preferable to this tiping bs.

Once it becomes mandatory, it becomes a FEE, not a tip…don’t call it a tip. So now we pay for the food we order, which factors in the overhead cost of the restaurant (including the server’s wage), plus a 25% surcharge that goes directly to the server who now has absolutely NO incentive to give you decent service…get ready for cold food, botched orders, and lots of waiting around. Don’t like your service? Too bad. Pay up.

San Francisco restaurants also require patrons to make a contribution to the waiter’s pension above and beyond the tip. When I was out there last, I started to adjust my tip amount accordingly. Unintended consequence of stupid actions. If the tip was a mandatory 25%, waiters would soon realize, 25% of nothing is nothing, while 15% of something is still something. Oh and you also get that contribution to your pension.

I tip at 20% for average service; really good service gets 25% and on the occasions of incredible service I have gone higher. The problem is that the service in the SF area has gone from some of the best in the world (20 years ago) to the other side of the spectrum. I tend to come to SF less and less because of this and the prices are getting out of control. I find better service outside of the city, in Napa, for example. I would suggest that there are lots of places in Sausalito and other places close by who would be more than happy with my tips.

Not sure how it works in CA, but in my state servers only make $2.18 per hour PLUS tips. So tips make up the vast majority of their pay, it’s not just a “bonus to reward service” as some of you suggest. This is also what differs it from other occupations where they have a higher hourly rate that don’t get tipped.

I have been in the restaurant industry for 43 years. I started making sandwiches at Blimpies when I was 14. I served for 20 years and am a retired General Manager for a major restaurant company. I have never supported mandatory tips. The word TIPS comes from To Insure Prompt Service. I know from experience that when a gratuity is mandatory, the excellence of service is taken less seriously. In the beginning, TIPS were given before dining started, as somewhat of a “bribe” but customers found that once the servers had money in hand, they were not as concerned about providing GREAT service. So, gradually, the tip became a “reward” , as it should be! I usually leave 20 to 30 % tip unless there is a bad attitude. This customer leverage should never be removed as service will become as lackadaisical as the fastfood industry! PS …I averaged 18% in tips for my serving career and was very happy thet I made about $20 per hour.

Having worked in the hotel business for thirty-plus years I can say first hand this is an absolutely terrible idea that in the end all three parties (the server, the guest and the establishment) will end up being big losers – especially the diner! I have worked in places with both set and non-set tipping polices and more often then not those with set amounts end up seeing both service and business levels decline. First everybody needs to remember that “TIP” is not a word (otherwise it would appear most often on ALL lower case letters than the common ALL upper case) but rather is an acronym for “To Insure Promptness!” Everything ends up being lost when the server is already assured of getting a TIP from the moment a guest sits down! Service is already dying a slow death in the modern world – act like this will only accelerate it!!!

SF Libs love France so much lets do it the French way. ZERO tip. The wages of the staff are built into the price of the meal. Period. If you get a bad meal and bad service you NEVER go back to the restaurant.

I would suggest the same action as I did with the Bank America debit card issue. The bank is allowed to put a fee on any service that it provides. The consumer has to make a decision, do I want to pay this fee or should I find a bank or credit union with similar services and less fees. The government should be protecting us from fraud and illegal activities; it should not be protecting us because we are stupid. Find another bank; find another place to eat. If the restaurants change the tip to a fee, then either decide to pay it and enjoy yourself or decide not to go there and enjoy yourself somewhere else. This is pretty easy. Maybe your favorite restaurant with get the message and move out of the city limits.

A tip is a gift for good service. If you want to raise the cost of the meal, raise it and the market will decide if it’s worth it.

Unfortunately for the restaurant industry and this economy, it’s already a burden to go out for a good meal. Raise it and some people will speak with their feet.

I always tip between 15 and 20 percent as long as the waiter shows up. I base it on how I feel about the entire meal, not just service. If the meal sucks, you’re not getting full pop. 25%? You’d have to be stellar. The idea of giving 25% to someone who stinks just rubs me the wrong way. It’s not happening.

San Francisco is already majorly overpriced for basically everything. Are you really going to give people another reason not to go there? It’s not like it’s an island of restaurants that don’t exist elsewhere. There is good food in this state that isn’t in The City.

This is stupid. The increasingly prevalent expectation of tips notwithstanding, a tip is not something that should be required. The tip is a gesture of appreciation for good service. Increasingly the idea seems to be that rather than companies simply paying their employees fairly for their work, the customers should do it for them. For god’s sake, just pay the wait staff a living wage. If you can’t afford to pay your waiters, open a buffet.

And while we’re here, I’ve heard enough of the whining about how unfair it is that waiters have to pay taxes on the first 15% of their tips. I have to pay taxes on 100% of what I make. It’s representative of how institutionalized tipping has become that even the government *assumes* wait staff will get at least a 15% tip every time.

Tipping should be a tradition. A kindness. A gesture of appreciation. Not an expectation.

The reason for tipping is so the owners do not have to pay a high wage. most
servers are paid minimum with no benefits. why should the public have to pay
large tips so that restaurants can show a large profitl

The “hot” time for servers is very short, usually three (3) hour shifts. Depending on the clientele and the economy, servers can make a decent wage. Good service demands good tips. All service areas are “cackling” now because of this weak economy. San Francisco’s idea of bringing this “change” will only result in a closing of restaurants if this goes through. Think this through S.F. service staff!

If this is the case, My wife and I will not go out to eat as much. If I get served a lousy meal and lousy service, and I still have to pay a 25% tip, I think not. I have the freedom to tip as I wish,
San Francisco’s food and the service is not worth of such an increase. I’ll go to McDonald’s.

I used to love to go to SF but with all these wacked out laws Ive been going to other major cities instead. bottom line, the country is slowly deprecating into the toilet of hell (or is that defecating!) and I value my money since Ive worked hard for it. More trips to europe for me where there is no need to tip and in many countries I end up getting a lot more for my cash anyways.

To teaj and others: let’s all judge each other individually, shan’t we? I’m a waiter; I know of the discrepancies in tipping. Not all black people are bad tippers, and not all white people are good tippers. If you want an accurate group description of tippers and non-tippers, it’s by income, not race. But don’t you see it’s that very same collective mentality that’s fueling these rediculous assertations for unearned tips? These waiters don’t want to be tipped based on whether or not they’re GOOD waiters or BAD ones; they want to be tipped just because they ARE one, because they belong to this special group, NOT because of their individual merits. It’s like Affirmative Action for servers. Disgusting.

Most servers don’t work at expensive fine dining restaurants. It takes a lot of 20% tips on $10.00 or $15.00 checks to earn a living. Under the current system tip income is voluntarily reported and, more to the point, it is routinely under reported. This amounts to a subsidy that is probably needed by those servers earning at the low end of the scale.

However, if the tip is mandatory then it is no longer a tip. The increase should be rolled into the bill, and the server should get it in their weekly check after taxes, FICA, etc have been deducted. Of course this would mean that their unofficial subsidy would disappear too.

They are professionals, and should be paid for their labours. Now, if you don’t want to tip. Lobby your government to force restaurants to pay more than less than min wage, so folks can make a living without depending on your handouts.

Simple as that.

And for that jerk that said “Get an education.”

A career choice is not something you should use as a reason to look down on people. Think of it. Somebody has to do that job, and if you don’t want to that’s fine. However, respect those that do the things you find vile.

I was a waiter at Denny’s during graveyard shift once. Once. Some drunk called me names, and his head met my water pitcher.

I lived in Japan for a few years. They don’t tip. In fact, if you tip it is considered an insult to the proprietor because it implies the employer is not taking care of the employees. But tips are nice in the U.S. because it provides tax free income .

I’m sorry, but what special skill are waitstaff providing that warrants any kind of “mandatory” compensation? If you want more money, form a union and demand more money from the owner of the restaurant, that way then standards for service and competencies can be set, further, I think every waiter/waitress should need then to also obtain a college degree in hospitality, food safety and other educational certifications that train them how to handle food, personal hygiene, food safety, customer service, ENGLISH, MATH, and trhrow on top of that CPR. Once these capabilities have been made mandatory for the job, then I could understand setting a mandatory tip rate. Also, every penny they earn should be taxed too. Tips should only be paid on pre-tax totals, and further, there should be a grievance process that customers can follow where they pay NO tip if it’s found that a waiter or waitress failed to perform ANY part of the agreed upon contract terms, such as:
1. ensuring clean table, cutlery, glassware etc.
2. ensuring timely seating and order taking
3. ensuring maximum of 2 minutes between checkins at the table to ensure customer needs are all met
4. food is served at right temperature for the type of meal
5. if at Hooters, that chest visibility is not obstructed
6. if at Tilted Kilt, that skirt length is appropriate (i.e. 1cm below butt cheek)
7. if at strip club, maximum weight is 120lbs

@teaj and others – This isn’t about race. At all. We all appreciate you using this forum to get that lil bit of racism of your chest, but let’s return to the issue at hand: the Quest for the Unearned. The collective mindset that gives you false self-esteem for not being a minority is the very same mindset that gives these waiters the balls to ask for 25% whether they earned it or not. You seek the unearned in spirit: you essentially say “I belong to this race, I deserve these merits by virtue of that association, NOT by my actual virtue.” Thus you hold your head high with pride and self-esteem, the virtues of good men, desptie you being a virtuless racist. These waiters seek the unearned in material gains: they esentially say “I belong to this group, I deserve 25% by virtue of that association, NOT my actual job performance.” Thus they walk with their pockets full, the virtue of hard work and effort, despite not having to work hard or exert effort.

If it’s mandatory it’s not a tip. If the restaurant wants the wait staff to get more money then THEY should pay them more and let the tips be tips. A mandatory tip is just a way to raise the price of the food and hide it from the consumer much like the shrinking size of food in the grocery store.