If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Lesson 8 Discussion - Melody in the Brass

This thread is to discuss Lesson 8 which covers melody in the brass instruments. We wil also discuss brass melody in unison, in octaves, thirds and sixths.

Rimsky-Korsakov seemed to use brass mostly as a texture and for color, and rarely as melodic content. The book even states about brass: "not a wide range of expression". Since the rise of jazz, film music and pop, brass has taken a more prominent and important role.

Feel free to ask questions or elaborate on the material presented in this lesson.

Question for Professor Belkin about horn in bass

Can you please clarify this comment on Lesson 8. Why do you consider horns used as bass to be a beginner's mistake? Do you mean if it is overused?

4. Professor Belkin Comments: An important point: the horn’s main melodic role is as an alto/tenor instrument, NOT as a soprano or a bass (very common beginner’s mistakes).

There are many, many great examples where horns were used in bass and it is an altogether different (and useful) timbre for the instruments. I consider for all the brass that they have the greatest difference in tonal character depending on where they play in their ranges and the effect desired by the composer would dictate if they should play high or low in their register. I would like to better understand your comment.

Also - note to Garritan, the links on step 1 of the GPO Exercise - Melody in the Brass: Thirds & Sixths Exercise appear to be broken.

Re: Question for Professor Belkin about horn in bass

Horns are mainly useful as long, pedal notes in *static* bass lines. When the bass line gets more mobile, horns are rather sluggish and heavy (because they have a such a strong fundamental). You will usually get better results using bassoons, trombone, or the tuba as the bass, depending on what is above.

Beginners often look at the horn's textbook range and think of it as a bass instrument. However a close look at scores in the standard repertoire shows that the lower the horns are pitched, the heavier the sound (again, excluding static, pedal notes, where they can play softer than, say, bassoons).

Personal experience: I once wrote a passage with horns used in the low tenor range and was getting very frustrated with the rather muddy sound. Finally I just removed the 4th (lowest) horn, and suddenly all was clear.

I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by karelm

Hello Professor Belkin.

Can you please clarify this comment on Lesson 8. Why do you consider horns used as bass to be a beginner's mistake? Do you mean if it is overused?

4. Professor Belkin Comments: An important point: the horn’s main melodic role is as an alto/tenor instrument, NOT as a soprano or a bass (very common beginner’s mistakes).

There are many, many great examples where horns were used in bass and it is an altogether different (and useful) timbre for the instruments. I consider for all the brass that they have the greatest difference in tonal character depending on where they play in their ranges and the effect desired by the composer would dictate if they should play high or low in their register. I would like to better understand your comment.

Also - note to Garritan, the links on step 1 of the GPO Exercise - Melody in the Brass: Thirds & Sixths Exercise appear to be broken.

Re: Question for Professor Belkin about horn in bass

Originally Posted by belkina

Horns are mainly useful as long, pedal notes in *static* bass lines. When the bass line gets more mobile, horns are rather sluggish and heavy (because they have a such a strong fundamental). You will usually get better results using bassoons, trombone, or the tuba as the bass, depending on what is above.

Beginners often look at the horn's textbook range and think of it as a bass instrument. However a close look at scores in the standard repertoire shows that the lower the horns are pitched, the heavier the sound (again, excluding static, pedal notes, where they can play softer than, say, bassoons).

Professor, is there an "official" range in SATB parlance- I've never taken any voice classes and was wondering?

Re: Question for Professor Belkin about horn in bass

These are ok, but voices, more than ANY other instrument, are not standard, for obvious reasons. Also be aware that choral voices are always more limited in range than solo voices; the latter come in endless varieties. Often singers themselves take years to find their "best" range. The ranges you posted are safe choral standards, but even there you will often find differences of a tone or two in the reportoire. (And remember that a-440 is a MODERN standard.)

Originally Posted by KeithW

Professor, is there an "official" range in SATB parlance- I've never taken any voice classes and was wondering?

Re: Question for Professor Belkin about horn in bass

Originally Posted by karelm

4. Professor Belkin Comments: An important point: the horn’s main melodic role is as an alto/tenor instrument, NOT as a soprano or a bass (very common beginner’s mistakes).

"Tessitura is an important consideration in writing for the horn. The upper register (from c2 to c3) should be used sparingly and for dramatic effects only. Guard against the tendency of many beginning orchestrators to write too high for the horns. The instrument should be thought of as an alto or tenor (rather than soprano) instrument.

Re: Question for Professor Belkin about horn in bass

One detail: I'd take issue with starting the upper register at middle C. You will be fine up to around G a fifth above that, from there on it sounds more and more strained. The effect can be desirable sometimes, but be aware that high brass notes (and these are getting high for a horn) will sound much higher (=intense, strained) than they look on the page!

Originally Posted by KeithW

"Tessitura is an important consideration in writing for the horn. The upper register (from c2 to c3) should be used sparingly and for dramatic effects only. Guard against the tendency of many beginning orchestrators to write too high for the horns. The instrument should be thought of as an alto or tenor (rather than soprano) instrument.