Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Revelation 6:7-8

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Notice how Hell follows Death. Hell does not ride with Death, but after because Death rides first.

So when the 3rd seal of Revelation is completed and people are working a day for a loaf of bread, then the 4th seal will come next.

The angel of Death is a kind of "pre-trib rapture" for the Christians living in that doomed 1/4th part of the Earth. Death will come in the night and take them to Heaven while they are sleeping. Then Hell will follow and judge the lost (like 98% or so).

So if you live in the USA keep watching the food prices. That is the sign for your rapid departure.

PS: Remember that an exact of order of 21 events was given in the book of Revelation. ANYONE who says those events will happen in a different order is a BLASTPHEMER because they imply the Holy Spirit is incompetent and couldn't get the numbers right. Totally laughable ...

Quoting: Stoned Prophet

The angel of death in not a KINDA pre trib rapture. Thats YOUR interpretation. The angel of death will not rapture the Christians to Heaven, JESUS WILL

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29358702

Nah! I believe the other guy, we tend to be scared of dark things, like spiders and all, but in reality they are beautiful creatures, the same goes for, The Angel of Death.

He is not there to hurt you, he is there to take your body, not your soul. Why would God want some good people to suffer a long tragic death, of his wrath?

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Excuse me for being the voice of reason and playing Devil's (no pun intended) Advocate here, but how accurate do you consider these prophecies to be?

I mean, let's look at this from a skeptic's perspective. As part of the brain's development throughout one's lifetime, we not only learn through patterns\repetition but unintentionally look for coincidences and conclude connections that don't really exist.

Perhaps the point-of-view is that it is not convincing to predict seven very general events to happen especially if they rely on a sequence that is constantly rationalized.

To say that there will be a single being who is the "antichrist" is quite general. It is part of our nature for different civilizations to try and control one another. To expect a species to ultimately come to this system of ranking is quite common. Speaking metaphorically, there will always be the proverbial "alpha male" whether it refers to an individual or an entire nation.

You have things that happen all the time - disease, war, famine, earthquakes, astrological anomalies etc. We'll come back to this in a minute.

Now we reach the "fool-proof loophole" part of the prophecy, where not only are the believers convinced that the prophecy is true but that they must fundamentally defend it to nay-sayers. I could tell you right now that people will try to prove my logic to be wrong and it would make me no more divine than these predictions.

The "seven trumpets" can be interpreted much more freely than the other signs. Again, we look for connections that aren't really there and this forces believers to find significance in the number 7.

Claiming a book to have prophetic value based on these conditions is about the same as some AC making a topic and saying "California will experience an earthquake within the next week" and expecting to be credited as a psychic.

All of those events have happened and continue to happen throughout history because they are characteristic of both human behavior and the environment. Scholars have been labeling different leaders as "the antichrist" since the 1st century. Earthquakes, famine, war and all those factors occur all the time, but the bottom line is that because the prophecies are written so generally, people choose to decide which events fit appropriately to the sequence.

I'm not here to turn you away from any belief, whether it is Christian, atheist or anything in between. I simply suggest that certain people need to stop expecting doom to be imminent so they can enjoy this life they were blessed with more appropriately. The cycle of being good to yourself so you can more fluently be good to others is a never-ending pattern that has led us to our species survival to date.

Quoting: Brian Moser

The 1st, and seals are non descriptive so there is no way of proving they have been broken. The 3rd seal is a "WORLDWIDE" famine (Not Ethiopia, bla bla) This is a strong sign BUT it cannot be FULLY proven too. The 4th seal is a world war where everyone dies in area that is about 25% of the landmass on Earth. This is a region, not 25% of the people, and this has never happened before in recorded history !!

The 4th seal is the DEFINITIVE(not general) sign of the end times, because the remaining Christians in the 75% of the Earth will know exactly where they are in the Book of Revelation. Until this event no one has been sure. Lots of hot air and BS, but no proof. The 4th seal will be the PROOF that the Lord is coming soon.

Then the Holy Spirit will pour out the latter rain. Miracles will be common place. The whole world will know about Jesus. This will happen in the fifth seal.

Then Satan will not be able to corrupt and pervert the NEW Christians. So he will have his servants start slaughtering them. This mass martyrdom will bring about the 6th seal which is the start of the day of the Lord.

I agree with what you are saying in general because wars and famines are the norm. But the 4th seal is not the norm. It is the endtime trap for the "lukewarm" Western Christians. It will sneak up on them like a thief in the night and the Lord is going to spit them out of His mouth. After it is done every Christian left will know HE HAS SPOKEN and has JUDGED. This is why when the 6th seal is broken everyone knows He is coming and they will crawl into the caves and hide themselves.

I am real prophet, and I have freely given this unpleasant information to you. I don't expect you to believe me, but never the less, my words will be fulfilled soon because the Lord is coming. He is coming SLOWLY in the EXACT order He said He would.

Quoting: Stoned Prophet

If you want to be heard and believed, then I suggest you back this up with scripture. It says nowhere in the Bible that the angel of death will take us home to Jesus, this is YOUR interpretation. A real prophet never has to claim his authority, he claims God as his authority

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Revelation 6:7-8

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Notice how Hell follows Death. Hell does not ride with Death, but after because Death rides first.

So when the 3rd seal of Revelation is completed and people are working a day for a loaf of bread, then the 4th seal will come next.

The angel of Death is a kind of "pre-trib rapture" for the Christians living in that doomed 1/4th part of the Earth. Death will come in the night and take them to Heaven while they are sleeping. Then Hell will follow and judge the lost (like 98% or so).

So if you live in the USA keep watching the food prices. That is the sign for your rapid departure.

PS: Remember that an exact of order of 21 events was given in the book of Revelation. ANYONE who says those events will happen in a different order is a BLASTPHEMER because they imply the Holy Spirit is incompetent and couldn't get the numbers right. Totally laughable ...

Quoting: Stoned Prophet

The angel of death in not a KINDA pre trib rapture. Thats YOUR interpretation. The angel of death will not rapture the Christians to Heaven, JESUS WILL

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29358702

Nah! I believe the other guy, we tend to be scared of dark things, like spiders and all, but in reality they are beautiful creatures, the same goes for, The Angel of Death.

He is not there to hurt you, he is there to take your body, not your soul. Why would God want some good people to suffer a long tragic death, of his wrath?

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

So we've established that we will go through the tribulation. How do you guys feel about that?

IMHO we should be happy to be persecuted for the Lord's name. I will continually praise him no matter what happens. The trib will not be God's punishment but will be done by satan. He will overcome us but fear not because our God overcame the world!

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

So we've established that we will go through the tribulation. How do you guys feel about that?

IMHO we should be happy to be persecuted for the Lord's name. I will continually praise him no matter what happens. The trib will not be God's punishment but will be done by satan. He will overcome us but fear not because our God overcame the world!

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Revelation 6:7-8

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Notice how Hell follows Death. Hell does not ride with Death, but after because Death rides first.

So when the 3rd seal of Revelation is completed and people are working a day for a loaf of bread, then the 4th seal will come next.

The angel of Death is a kind of "pre-trib rapture" for the Christians living in that doomed 1/4th part of the Earth. Death will come in the night and take them to Heaven while they are sleeping. Then Hell will follow and judge the lost (like 98% or so).

So if you live in the USA keep watching the food prices. That is the sign for your rapid departure.

PS: Remember that an exact of order of 21 events was given in the book of Revelation. ANYONE who says those events will happen in a different order is a BLASTPHEMER because they imply the Holy Spirit is incompetent and couldn't get the numbers right. Totally laughable ...

Quoting: Stoned Prophet

The angel of death in not a KINDA pre trib rapture. Thats YOUR interpretation. The angel of death will not rapture the Christians to Heaven, JESUS WILL

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29358702

Nah! I believe the other guy, we tend to be scared of dark things, like spiders and all, but in reality they are beautiful creatures, the same goes for, The Angel of Death.

He is not there to hurt you, he is there to take your body, not your soul. Why would God want some good people to suffer a long tragic death, of his wrath?

Jesus saves our souls, from the pits of hell, not our bodies.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1370992

You can believe the other guy, and I'll stick to believing the Bible.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29358702

The same bible that mentions Jesus as saying, That if we don't worship him as our savior, then we go to hell?

What kind of a Great Spiritual Man would ever install fear into his words?

The bible is that of duality, like everything else that were born on Earth, gotta take the good with the bad.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Here's another one OP, AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

In this verse Jesus prays against the false rapture theory.

John 17:15

Goes like this..... He prays to the Father..."I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil."

And it does matter. To believe in the rapture is to follow another gospel than what the apostles gave us. Paul said those who follow another gospel should be accursed. These are the ones who Jesus says to.... "Go away, I never knew you." They are from the church of Sardis. Read about that church in Revelation.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Stoned prophet = false prophet. Sounds like you preach a salvation that requires works, and completely ignore the fact in scripture that even those asleep in Christ will be raptured. Anyone else believe in a works salvation? Let the deceivers be exposed for their heresy.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Great but I don't have to watch that video (even though I will definately watch it) because for 38 years; I have always known that there will be a mid or post tribulation. And I have never believed in a pre-rapture tribulation. But thanks very much for the video!! I am sure that I will enjoy it.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Stoned prophet = false prophet. Sounds like you preach a salvation that requires works, and completely ignore the fact in scripture that even those asleep in Christ will be raptured. Anyone else believe in a works salvation? Let the deceivers be exposed for their heresy.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5713637

you have to explain yourself better.for i cannot agree with the totality of your pot.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

any logical faithful believer would know that the rapture would come at the end of the tribulation... pre-trib is for fools who are deluded to think that they are not sinners and deserve to be taken away prior to hell on earth... not going to happen, we all have to go through fire, pressures and trials and endure till the end... how does a diamond reach its perfect state from an ordinary rock? it needs to go through a intense process that most christians in their feel good bubble world are not ready to endure and why some of them invented the pre-trib dogma to fit their wishes.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

any logical faithful believer would know that the rapture would come at the end of the tribulation... pre-trib is for fools who are deluded to think that they are not sinners and deserve to be taken away prior to hell on earth... not going to happen, we all have to go through fire, pressures and trials and endure till the end... how does a diamond reach its perfect state from an ordinary rock? it needs to go through a intense process that most christians in their feel good bubble world are not ready to endure and why some of them invented the pre-trib dogma to fit their wishes.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21881980

Not all faithful believers are logical. I still love them tho, they are still my brothers and sisters.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

John Nelson Darby wrote his own bible in the 1800's in it he rewrote and took out verses. That backed up the pre tribulation rapture idea he had in the foot notes of the bible. The bible was given to many colleges and many young preachers read it and and accepted it.

Here are some verses that proves the rapture is after the tribulation

Mathew 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Quoting: OhlongJohnson

these verses prove NOTHING about the timing of the rapture

After the tribulation of those days, God says the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give light. Says nothing abut when the believers will be caught up.

Acts 14:22.. believers through the years have had MUCH tribulation and we still do......this verse does not refer to the GREAT tribulation.

Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Was pre-trib many years ago for a short time.

Am now Pre-Wrath. (7th Seal.....God's wrath)

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29862513

I had been a Pre-Wrath for a long time growing up based on what I had then understood of the Bible in various English translations.

Then when 23 I began to look into the Pre-Tribe thing for awhile, many decades really. Closely studying it. But finally about 10 years ago (at 49 of age) I began to take a very close look at the pronouns used in the Olivet Discourse, Matthew 23 to 25, as well as the prepositions in both the English and in the Textus Receptus (as well as Westcott & Hort).. and those pronouns really started to bother me. Having what I felt was a decent treatment of the pronouns and prepositions of that section, I found myself move back into the Pre-Wrath approach when a new interest and clarity I had not had there before.

But all was not hunky-dorry. In the past ten years I have been finding myself more and more a quasi-Preterist, I say "quasi" became I am not satisfied with parts of that derived doctrine as well. SO I am caught between the Pre-Wrath and a quasi-Preterist approach, which is not satisfying yet, as to the fact that I have yet many questions to find the answers too.

BTW., there are websites out there that suggest the Pre-Wrath approach is a 'modern' new doctrinal derivation. I found that claim to be bogus. It has been around for many hundreds of centuries. Perhaps they have just found a new 'flavor' of it, or a new 'version' of it.

This thing is far more complex than many realize once one gets into serious self-study of the Texts themselves sitting aside (put back on the shelf) all of the derived Theology of Eschatology and just taking a very new look at the Text themselves. Of course I find myself using the Constructionalist approach to the Texts themselves... with occasional inspirational aspects thrown into the mix, mostly 'seeing' connections that had been overlooked. Mine has been a 50 year study so far. However, I must add that I tend to despise those derived doctrines that attempt to do any 'date-setting' such as are commonly found such as the End-Times' Date Setting approaches.

When the coming of the Son of Man as spoken of in Matthew chapter 23-25, e.g., I continue to look at the "Gathering Together" there in Matt 24:30-31 in direct linkage with 2nd Thess 2:1-10 in particular. And yet, Mat 24:27-28 are separate from Mat 24:29 which is a return to the topic of tribulation. Where do the eagles gather? On the ground around the dead bodies. Before they do that, the eagles flying around looking for dead bodies from a vantage point 'in the air'. This to me 'hints' that when the eagles are gathered at the dead bodies, the wrath has already started.

Lots of work to do in studying this topic, and it is very hard to sit down and write out your own work and not rely totally on per-digested food.