Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

How did I know the thread would go this way?? Anyway, from Frontline's "House of Saud"

Roosevelt said to the Saudi King, "Your Majesty, you know, I'd like to get your opinion on a problem that I'm facing back home." He said, "You know,
a lot of my constituents are pressuring me to recognize a Jewish homeland in Palestine." And he said, "I'd like to get your thoughts on this." And
King Abdul Aziz said, "Mr. President, what Hitler did to the Jews was a terrible thing. It really was the worst thing that man can do to man." But he
said, "I don't understand why you're talking about taking land away from us, the Arabs, and giving it to the Jews. We didn't do anything to the Jews.
If you want to do something for the Jews, why don't you give them the best part of Germany?"

The British screwed the Arabs. The Americans have screwed the Arabs. There is a reason they are pissed. But on goes emperor Constatine's Bible telling
people the Jews are the chosen people. I guess everybody else sucks, including Americans. Funny thing supporting and exalting the chosen people when
you aren't invited to the party.

Pretty much since the 'philistines' invaded and took that land from someone who was already living there.

I can guarantee, that you nor anyone else in Israel have actually any idea WHO they are, or where they come from.

They ALL claim that they do, but we can see that they do NOT.

Bloodlines, and Soullines, they are hidden well on this planet, and I can see that the cannon fodders are all in the open, whilst the ones with actual
more purer traceable bloodlines really are playing the game from behind the scenes.

A game they actually do not seem to know what it is about EITHER.

It needs to be known, that the time for all this hi-jinx is UP, and all of the garbage going on in this world is not at ALL, what all the
subconsciously controlled religious people in this world, I.E. EVERYONE think it is, because they are NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

Not ONE OUNCE of truth on ANYTHING has been told in hundreds of thousands of years.

Only when the questions are POWERFULLY asked, WHAT IS ALL OF THIS NONSENSE, will we get to the bottom of any of it.

Oh, WAIT, they ARE suddenly BEING ASKED, AS OF NOW, gird yourselves with the armor, the armor that protects you from TRUTH!!!

originally posted by: combatmaster
It doesnt make it their land.... If they failed to create an internationally recognized sovereign arab palestinian state, how is it their land? They
had a lease on it.... so what, the lease is now over!

If they failed, it certainly wasn't for lack of effort. In fact the history makes it very clear that it was not a failure so much as an intentional
blocking. From 1919 onward, there was an operational Palestinian Arab congress with national aspirations that kept trying to work with the British to
establish Palestine as a sovereign state. The British responded by arresting members of the organization and deporting them out of the territory,
mostly into Egypt. When the british weren't arresting its members, it was ignoring the congress. when the congress fell apart it was replaced by ht
Arab higher Comittee, which had much the same goals - and which was immediately outlawed by the British, with more deportations and arrests.

All the while the British were giving well-oiled handjobs to the Zionist congress; the first Comissioner of Palestine, Herbert Samuel - the fellow who
began the British tradition of arresting and deporting Arab nationalists from Palestine, was himself an ardent Zionist Jew.

Well okay, but what about after the british mandate ended, couldn't the arab have just declared themselves a state then and there?

Well, no, because of that sovereignty issue - a state cannot declare itself over territory where it is not sovereign; where it does not exercise
control. And prior to the end of the British mandate, there was the Palestinian Civil War, fought between Jewish militia and villagers armed with
muskets and slingshots. The militia were armed and supplied by British forces, even to the point of violating a UN embargo on arms shipments to the
territory - and pointedly the British did not try to intervene in the fighting even though it was their obligation as occupying power to do so.

So really, it's not that "the Arabs failed to establish a state," so much as "a world power worked very hard to prevent such an establishment, to
the point of aiding and abetting ethnic cleansing happening right under its nose."

Jews on the other hand were not given a small portion.... they were expelled from their homeland and survived 2000 years in foreign lands
living as refugees! Now they are back...

Can you point me towards a Jew who's been alive for 2,000 years?

So these new refugees that you call the Palestinians, can go back to their ancestors' real homeland - Jordan, Oman, Syria, Egypt etc.... just
like the Jews went back to their ancestors' real homeland- Israel!

By this logic, seven billion people need to pack their butts into Kenya and let the rest of the world go back to being a Pleistocene theme park.

You nailed it. Also it is really absurd with whole ancestral home garbage. Maybe your their family DID live on that land when King David allegedly
existed, but i know for certain there are some Palestinians that.hold the land titles for some nice chunks of Israeli highway.

I guess being able to say your ancestors were there 40 or more generations ago trumpstrumps someone who can point out.where their childhood home used
to be.

a reply to: combatmaster
They had tried to create a state but were blocked by the Brits. Also.. 2000 years ago the world wasnt nearly as defined. They tried many times at the
turn of the century then a push.when they were being.over run by Israel who was attacking Egypt and kicking Palestinians off their land.

Im not gonna argue with you buster since you are not going to accept anything other than what you want.

You are not a genetics expert. I personally can trace my bloodline back 23 generations of rabbis, back to Babylon and to Israel.

You have in all likelyhood never left your country, and im pretty positive you have never visited israel or gaza.

How can i take a person who quotes hitler in his signature seriously!?

Sorry but 23 generations isn't enough to go all the way back to when there was an Israel. The average generation is 25 years that is the amount of
time from the birth of a parent to the birth of their first child. So 23 generations by 25 years is 575 years so you are short by around 1500 years.

I've went around the world a couple of times when I was in the military. Who my quote is by isn't as important as what it means because he was right
fear of sudden death makes it easy to control people.

Wow, you can count... but honestly, do you really believe that you are going to teach me about my own family tree?
You buster are a special case indeed... i really wish you get a taste of what ive been living in my entire life. i hope you one day have to deal
personally with Hamas terrorirsts! only then will you know what you are!

Im not gonna argue with you buster since you are not going to accept anything other than what you want.

You are not a genetics expert. I personally can trace my bloodline back 23 generations of rabbis, back to Babylon and to Israel.

You have in all likelyhood never left your country, and im pretty positive you have never visited israel or gaza.

How can i take a person who quotes hitler in his signature seriously!?

Sorry but 23 generations isn't enough to go all the way back to when there was an Israel. The average generation is 25 years that is the amount of
time from the birth of a parent to the birth of their first child. So 23 generations by 25 years is 575 years so you are short by around 1500 years.

I've went around the world a couple of times when I was in the military. Who my quote is by isn't as important as what it means because he was right
fear of sudden death makes it easy to control people.

Wow, you can count... but honestly, do you really believe that you are going to teach me about my own family tree?
You buster are a special case indeed... i really wish you get a taste of what ive been living in my entire life. i hope you one day have to deal
personally with Hamas terrorirsts! only then will you know what you are!

No I'm not teaching you about your family tree just don't try to pull the generations bull to justify your theft of land that doesn't belong to
you.

Well seeing how they have no Air Force or Navy the chance of Hamas attacking America is next to none and besides my nation although it is supporting
Israel isn't trying to wipe Palestine off the map like Israel. Also when you live in a terrorist nation like Israel you really have no right crying
about other people and calling them terrorist when they are defending themselves from people who think just because other people shared the same faith
as them thousands of years ago gives them the right to land that others have been living on for well over a thousand years.

If we applied that logic to everyone then no one would have a place to live. If some Sumerians were to show up at your doorstep would you pack up and
leave seeing how the land belong to them before it belonged to the Jews?

Stop it..... it was never their land. They were simply living on it... theres a big difference! Palestinian arab muslims, palestinian Jews,
palestinian christians etc etc! I come from a family of arab jews and palestinian jews.

Israel does the same thing. They teach their kids to hate as much as the Palestinians.

You make stuff up about israel teaching its kids to hate.... this is a LIE! You have never even been to israel, so how can you say this? Israel doesnt
do this.... teach their kids to become martyrs..... are you even listening to urself!>?

This is pointless buster..... you make assumptions that could only be valid when backed by your experiences of being there! you are nothing but an
armchair warrior in regards to the israel/gaza conflict, so i cannot really learn anything from you that couldnt be got online!

No, I'm educating you about the history of the Palestinian push for statehood, and pointing out the absurdity of your other two non-arguments.

How people do you know who have donethis?

I can't even imagine what you're trying to say here. How do?

have you ever met anyone for real or did you just read your entire life!

if this is some sort of attempt at an insult, I don't think it worked.

You are really gonna use the 2000 year old person argument!? how old are you?

Quite significantly younger than 2,000, just like everyone else currently drawing breath on the planet. "people of the same religion and possibly
similar genetics were living there two millennia ago!" is simply a ridiculous argument for why anyone would be entitled to something today.

Unless you want to argue that gingers have more right to that territory than either Arabs or Jews?

All you anti-semitic ATS'ers i really hope you can one day come to israel and we will go visit Gaza together! I know gaza really well and her
people even better.... dont be scared come with me!

Not well enough to even understand basic history around the subject, obviously. And you know that the more you water down the word "antisemitism"
the more power you give to actual antisemites, right?

Cos it seems like nothing but the truth will set you free.... so come and witness it like i did... no out of a book or screen but your own 2
eyes!

well, I'm not going to spend money i can't afford, to go hang out with a guy whose typed English is barely comprehensible. Especially not in
some barbarous country where they think pickles and ketchup on falafel is acceptable.

I put my life where my mouth is, sorry for not being able to master english the way you did... it doesnt negate the fact that im more experienced than
you will ever be about this conflict.... history or no history. despite the fact that religion DOES play pretty much the biggest role of nearly every
nation on earth and the way they were formed. you cant change that with your smart talk about genetics, because even though ridiculous it is.... this
is the way of the world. so yes, it currently is like you said, all about genetics, unfortunate but true!

But back to the point, palestinians have been abused by pretty much everyone, but as im sure u can agree, change begins from within whether you trying
to lose weight

, or something bigger like a political movement.

Is it too much to ask for a non extremist government to be put in charge of gaza instead of hamas! sure israel may not be buddhists but they sure aint
nazis, and if you think they are then im not wasting my time anymore!

I put my life where my mouth is, sorry for not being able to master english the way you did... it doesnt negate the fact that im more experienced than
you will ever be about this conflict.... history or no history. despite the fact that religion DOES play pretty much the biggest role of nearly every
nation on earth and the way they were formed. you cant change that with your smart talk about genetics, because even though ridiculous it is.... this
is the way of the world. so yes, it currently is like you said, all about genetics, unfortunate but true!

But back to the point, palestinians have been abused by pretty much everyone, but as im sure u can agree, change begins from within whether you trying
to lose weight

, or something bigger like a political movement.

Is it too much to ask for a non extremist government to be put in charge of gaza instead of hamas! sure israel may not be buddhists but they sure aint
nazis, and if you think they are then im not wasting my time anymore!

I gotta agree with you. I think Israel should vote out it's neo cons and palistine vote out Hamas. Maybe then they can talk.

Well, I don't have the money. Unfortunately not all of us live a jet-setting life of luxury and can afford to fly to the other half of the
planet just to make a non-point on the internet. Tell you what. You book my flight and sure, let's go visit Khan Younis.

While we're there you can explain to me why you spent three grand to bring me out there. What point are you planning on proving? What argument are
you trying to make?

I put my life where my mouth is, sorry for not being able to master english the way you did... it doesnt negate the fact that im more
experienced than you will ever be about this conflict.... history or no history. despite the fact that religion DOES play pretty much the biggest role
of nearly every nation on earth and the way they were formed. you cant change that with your smart talk about genetics, because even though ridiculous
it is.... this is the way of the world. so yes, it currently is like you said, all about genetics, unfortunate but true!

Judging from the content and quality of your posts thus far, I have to conclude that your "experience" has left you painfully ignorant. I'm sorry
but simply being in the area doesn't actually make you more credible or informed than people who have put the time and effort into learning
the subject - including the history you so blithely dismiss.

But back to the point, palestinians have been abused by pretty much everyone, but as im sure u can agree, change begins from within whether you
trying to lose weight

, or something bigger like a political movement.

Is it too much to ask for a non extremist government to be put in charge of gaza instead of hamas! sure israel may not be buddhists but they sure aint
nazis, and if you think they are then im not wasting my time anymore!

I don't think I said anything equating Israel to Nazis. Maybe you should stick to arguing against what people actually say rather than what you wish
they had said.

I didnt mean to put words in your mouth, dont get it wrong... i just assumed you were one of those ATSers that claim Israel is gassing palestinians in
their homes etc etc..... and therefore equate them to nazis! sorry! no harm meant! obviously you aren't!

But it hurts to know how ignorant the world is when they can make judgements about a place they have never visited!

I know the history, i cant write it down. My family and friends lived it! It might feel nice online on ATS to write what you think based on books and
history, but the real world is different.

BTW... may i ask... has there ever been a palestinian arab sovereign nation? you seem to know 'history', so please enlighten me.... how many
sovereign nation-states have existed in the land now known by the Greco-Roman geographical designation of "Palestine"?

I didnt mean to put words in your mouth, dont get it wrong... i just assumed you were one of those ATSers that claim Israel is gassing palestinians in
their homes etc etc..... and therefore equate them to nazis! sorry! no harm meant! obviously you aren't!

No, that is clearly exactly what you intended. Don't worry though, I've dealt with worse, and have ceased to care when someone pulls this on me. It
just makes them look bad, not me.

But it hurts to know how ignorant the world is when they can make judgements about a place they have never visited!

I know the history, i cant write it down. My family and friends lived it! It might feel nice online on ATS to write what you think based on books and
history, but the real world is different.

The real world is also different from how you "remember" it. memory is full of biases, misjudgements, idealizations, exaggerations, etc. Your brain
stores your weighted interpretation of what is presented to you at a given moment. This is a very different thing from "What really happened."

The advantage of study is that it is possible through the collective memories of hundreds, even thousands of people, paired with primary concurrent
sources and rigorous application of logic, to filter the events down, to refine and restructure something much closer to objective truth than an
individual memory can come up with.

BTW... may I ask... has there ever been a palestinian arab sovereign nation? you seem to know 'history', so please enlighten me.... how many
sovereign nation-states have existed in the land now known by the Greco-Roman geographical designation of "Palestine"?

That post doesnt answer my original quesiton.... it just agrees that there never was a palestinian nation and gives excuses as to why not. can you
answer my quesiton?

furthermore, you really try to impress with your english language skills.... i understand what you are saying. but its fancy talk to someone who has
been in the war we are debating! sorry but the real world is not 'different' form how i remember it.
you are over analyzing something very simple - that witness and experience dictate the story not the other way round. I acted and you read the
story!

but we can agree to disagree.... since you obviously cannot ansewr my quesiton!

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