On Facebook the other day I saw a post by Pastor Greg Laurie it stated the flowing :
(02/08/2014)
Religion.I have to admit,I’m not a big fan.“But you are a Preacher and a religious person!”*some might say.I beg to differ.Follower of Jesus Christ?Guilty as charged.Religious person?I have no interest whatsoever.Let me take it a step further.I actually hate religion.I think more people have been blinded by religion to their need for Jesus then perhaps any garden-variety sin you can think of.Case in point- a very religious man named Nicodemus came to Jesus one night.He was searching for meaning in his ritual-filled life.Not only that,but he was in his day a famous religious leader.Jesus told what he had to do to go to Heaven.That’s what I want to talk about tomorrow at Harvest/Riverside and Orange County in my message,”Heart to Heart”.

When i read this i was a little bothered so I commented on his post:
“wow, hate is such a strong word. You should be more responsible for the things you say. And why are you trying to sell this “Jesus is anti-religion” Stuff? Wasn’t Jesus Christ a devout Jew and read, understood, and shared scripture? It would appear to me Jesus was more anti-corruption than anti-religion. And I am not seeing the Nicodemus comparison.”

And Greg Laurie’s response
Deleted my post and blocked me from commenting on anything on his Facebook page.

The thing that caught my eye is his apparent distrust of “rituals”. There seems to be a belief that as long as we “believe in our hearts”, other things don’t matter. The physical is seen as less-than (or at least not as necessary as) the internal workings of the heart.

IMHO, Nicodemus was searching for meaning in his life, period. Not meaning in his life because he was somehow sick of ritual worship and sacrifice.

If one is a follower of Jesus, one is a follower of the Church He has established. He established the Sacraments for our sake, not because He requires them. To me, it seems rejection of rituals is like saying, “I like Jesus, but I think He got some things wrong. Let me fix the errors so people aren’t bogged down by rituals and get bored and tired.”

This ties in with, I think, why Protestants believe the symbol of the Eucharist is sufficient. Who needs the ritual of the Real (physical) Presence of Jesus as long as we just believe in our hearts that’s He’s somehow present with us in a metaphysical sense?

Now Greg Laurie. Is this anti-religion thing new? What’s with this “all i need is Jesus” attitude, “for get church, religion.” (but these people still attend services and donate there money).

And on a side note, Greg Laurie saying he hates religion is like Dale Ernhardt Jr saying he hates race car driving. :shrug:

I don’t think you were wrong to bring it to his attention, it is too bad that he is unwilling to pay any heed. As you noted, this evolution has been going on for awhile. I see it as an idea that allows you to separate yourself from community. It is the next logical step in the “Just me and my personal God” mentality. The mantra of “I can go straight to God” becomes tantamount in eventually putting away any thoughts of earthly authority beyond ourselves. You can see how self-deceptive it is; think about it. Once you have God’s ear and have this special loving bond with Him, what benefit is “organized religion” or “church” for that matter. It is just hinders your personal bond. Nobody should think they can instruct you in how to worship, anyway; you have your own way, after all.

We shouldn’t focus on Mr. Laurie outside of praying for him; pride and presumption are the deceiver’s toys after all. It is the same problem Saul ran into in 1 Sam. It was the same problem Jeroboam ran into in 1 Kgs. And it was the same problem the Pharisees had in the gospels. The Pharisees, in particular, based their sense of “holiness” on the fact that they were separated from the common society. They held themselves apart from the community and this was the behavioral pattern that Jesus exhorted.

If one is a follower of Jesus, one is a follower of the Church He has established. He established the Sacraments for our sake, not because He requires them. To me, it seems rejection of rituals is like saying, “I like Jesus, but I think He got some things wrong. Let me fix the errors so people aren’t bogged down by rituals and get bored and tired.”

Is it at all possible that Jesus established these rituals and sacraments at the time because humanity needed them, since there was a prevalence of deep spiritual immaturity?

Maybe today, with the greater spiritual maturity of many, the deeper significance of those rituals can be established without the rituals?

Rituals are like any other ritual. We have an alarm clock ritual, for example, to wake us up at 8 am every morning. After 5 years of carrying out this ritual, you eventually realise that this is no longer needed to fulfil the purpose, which is to be awake at 8 am…

I acknowledge that sometimes there is great value in the ritual itself. For example, my wife used to walk to the local grocery store every morning to buy fresh milk and eggs. It was a daily ritual. One day the grocery store said they have a delivery service, door-to-door. My wife refused because there was also inherent value in the actual walk.

Just some perspectives to consider, which I feel both hold value and are of pertinence to ponder upon

Now Greg Laurie. Is this anti-religion thing new? What’s with this “all i need is Jesus” attitude, “for get church, religion.” (but these people still attend services and donate there money).

And on a side note, Greg Laurie saying he hates religion is like Dale Ernhardt Jr saying he hates race car driving. :shrug:

To many evangelicals Religion and worshiping Jesus are seemingly two different things. It’s kind of screwy. I used to be evangelical, but I never “got” the difference:confused: I prefer the dictionary definition of religion, which is " the worship of God" Very plain. Very simple.

Back in the 70’s it was popular among Evangelicals to say that they weren’t religious either, so this is not a new thing. It was a sort of ‘campaign’ they had and it was supposed to initiate thought as to whether a person was only outwardly following a particular set of beliefs, or whether the belief was heartfelt and included a personal relationship with Christ.

To actually say ‘I hate religion’ is probably an attempt to shock and to get people to pay attention. It is a very strong statement to make, though, and I don’t think you were wrong in posting at all. And to have him erase your comments instead of posting a reply, to me, is a wrong decision on his part. It sounds like your statements are not open for discussion and he is not open to dialogue.

I wouldn’t let this bother you. Just keep following the Lord in what you know is the right path, and pray for the salvation of all souls

Back in the 70’s it was popular among Evangelicals to say that they weren’t religious either, so this is not a new thing. It was a sort of ‘campaign’ they had and it was supposed to initiate thought as to whether a person was only outwardly following a particular set of beliefs, or whether the belief was heartfelt and included a personal relationship with Christ.

To actually say ‘I hate religion’ is probably an attempt to shock and to get people to pay attention. It is a very strong statement to make, though, and I don’t think you were wrong in posting at all. And to have him erase your comments instead of posting a reply, to me, is a wrong decision on his part. It sounds like your statements are not open for discussion and he is not open to dialogue.

I wouldn’t let this bother you. Just keep following the Lord in what you know is the right path, and pray for the salvation of all souls

Some people who won’t darken the door of any house of worship will say “I’m not religious, but I AM spiritual.” Common cop out for staying away from church. My book:religion is better than irreligion! It’s irreligion that is behind so much that is wrong with this world, contrary to a popular song by John Lennon “Imagine”

Greg Laurie…not my favorite person. I had a “conversation” with him many years ago in Riverside, CA.

Your comment got in the way of his agenda or indoctrination (as other posters pointed out). Harsh words on my part but he just does not sit well with me.

My experience with him was I had wished to talk to him about his Catholic bashing during one of his sermons. His response was that I should set up an appointment so he can show me where the Catholic Church is wrong with the bible :rolleyes:

Is it at all possible that Jesus established these rituals and sacraments at the time because humanity needed them, since there was a prevalence of deep spiritual immaturity?

Maybe today, with the greater spiritual maturity of many, the deeper significance of those rituals can be established without the rituals?

Rituals are like any other ritual. We have an alarm clock ritual, for example, to wake us up at 8 am every morning. After 5 years of carrying out this ritual, you eventually realise that this is no longer needed to fulfil the purpose, which is to be awake at 8 am…

I acknowledge that sometimes there is great value in the ritual itself. For example, my wife used to walk to the local grocery store every morning to buy fresh milk and eggs. It was a daily ritual. One day the grocery store said they have a delivery service, door-to-door. My wife refused because there was also inherent value in the actual walk.

Just some perspectives to consider, which I feel both hold value and are of pertinence to ponder upon

.

I don’t think ritual itself is sufficient, per se. But just as we need to eat, and there are optimal things to eat at optimal times, our relationship/association/communication with God has been set in a manner most efficient and beneficial.

But is not following ritual grounds for not attaining salvation? Only God judges…but it seems a bit odd for a Christian pastor to diminish the importance of church practices/rituals going back since the beginning of the Church…and more including the Old Testament temple worship.

Plus, there’s an aspect of being obedient and knowing that our ways may not be the best and trusting in the divinely-established Church and her teachings.

This doesn’t mean we’re robots just following orders. But at least for corporal worship with fellow believers, why reinvent the wheel? What is to be gained?

Back in the 70’s it was popular among Evangelicals to say that they weren’t religious either, so this is not a new thing. It was a sort of ‘campaign’ they had and it was supposed to initiate thought as to whether a person was only outwardly following a particular set of beliefs, or whether the belief was heartfelt and included a personal relationship with Christ.

To actually say ‘I hate religion’ is probably an attempt to shock and to get people to pay attention. It is a very strong statement to make, though, and I don’t think you were wrong in posting at all. And to have him erase your comments instead of posting a reply, to me, is a wrong decision on his part. It sounds like your statements are not open for discussion and he is not open to dialogue.

I wouldn’t let this bother you. Just keep following the Lord in what you know is the right path, and pray for the salvation of all souls

Yes, they use to say, I’m not religious, I just have Jesus. it sounds so warm and fuzzy and free and when one looks at it honestly, it is totally illogical. This sort of thinking comes around over and over again and shows the shallowness of people’s thought process, theology and intellect.

On Facebook the other day I saw a post by Pastor Greg Laurie it stated the flowing :
(02/08/2014)
Religion.I have to admit,I’m not a big fan.“But you are a Preacher and a religious person!”*some might say.I beg to differ.Follower of Jesus Christ?Guilty as charged.Religious person?I have no interest whatsoever.Let me take it a step further.I actually hate religion.I think more people have been blinded by religion to their need for Jesus then perhaps any garden-variety sin you can think of.Case in point- a very religious man named Nicodemus came to Jesus one night.He was searching for meaning in his ritual-filled life.Not only that,but he was in his day a famous religious leader.Jesus told what he had to do to go to Heaven.That’s what I want to talk about tomorrow at Harvest/Riverside and Orange County in my message,”Heart to Heart”.

When i read this i was a little bothered so I commented on his post:
“wow, hate is such a strong word. You should be more responsible for the things you say. And why are you trying to sell this “Jesus is anti-religion” Stuff? Wasn’t Jesus Christ a devout Jew and read, understood, and shared scripture? It would appear to me Jesus was more anti-corruption than anti-religion. And I am not seeing the Nicodemus comparison.”

And Greg Laurie’s response
Deleted my post and blocked me from commenting on anything on his Facebook page.

Was I wrong with my comment? or Rude? I didn’t mean to be.

I honestly don’t know who Pastor Greg Laurie is or why you were even friends with him on Facebook. I don’t think you were rude but logical and he probably didn’t like what you said because it exposed the stupidity of this sort of pop fizz theology.

On Facebook the other day I saw a post by Pastor Greg Laurie it stated the flowing :
(02/08/2014)
Religion.I have to admit,I’m not a big fan.“But you are a Preacher and a religious person!”*some might say.I beg to differ.Follower of Jesus Christ?Guilty as charged.Religious person?I have no interest whatsoever.Let me take it a step further.I actually hate religion.I think more people have been blinded by religion to their need for Jesus then perhaps any garden-variety sin you can think of.Case in point- a very religious man named Nicodemus came to Jesus one night.He was searching for meaning in his ritual-filled life.Not only that,but he was in his day a famous religious leader.Jesus told what he had to do to go to Heaven.That’s what I want to talk about tomorrow at Harvest/Riverside and Orange County in my message,”Heart to Heart”.

When i read this i was a little bothered so I commented on his post:
“wow, hate is such a strong word. You should be more responsible for the things you say. And why are you trying to sell this “Jesus is anti-religion” Stuff? Wasn’t Jesus Christ a devout Jew and read, understood, and shared scripture? It would appear to me Jesus was more anti-corruption than anti-religion. And I am not seeing the Nicodemus comparison.”

And Greg Laurie’s response
Deleted my post and blocked me from commenting on anything on his Facebook page.

Was I wrong with my comment? or Rude? I didn’t mean to be.

None of the above; he just didn’t want to hear it. He did you a favor by blocking you.

None of the above; he just didn’t want to hear it. He did you a favor by blocking you.

I wonder if Mr. Laurie hates standing before large groups of people, lecturing them, in the confines of a nice air conditioned building, having a tv show, and the notoriety that goes with it. Probably not!:shrug:

=Fritz6976;11703977]On Facebook the other day I saw a post by Pastor Greg Laurie it stated the flowing :
(02/08/2014)
Religion.I have to admit,I’m not a big fan.“But you are a Preacher and a religious person!”*some might say.I beg to differ.Follower of Jesus Christ?Guilty as charged.Religious person?I have no interest whatsoever.Let me take it a step further.I actually hate religion.I think more people have been blinded by religion to their need for Jesus then perhaps any garden-variety sin you can think of.Case in point- a very religious man named Nicodemus came to Jesus one night.He was searching for meaning in his ritual-filled life.Not only that,but he was in his day a famous religious leader.Jesus told what he had to do to go to Heaven.That’s what I want to talk about tomorrow at Harvest/Riverside and Orange County in my message,”Heart to Heart”.

When i read this i was a little bothered so I commented on his post:
“wow, hate is such a strong word. You should be more responsible for the things you say. And why are you trying to sell this “Jesus is anti-religion” Stuff? Wasn’t Jesus Christ a devout Jew and read, understood, and shared scripture? It would appear to me Jesus was more anti-corruption than anti-religion. And I am not seeing the Nicodemus comparison.”

And Greg Laurie’s response
Deleted my post and blocked me from commenting on anything on his Facebook page.

Was I wrong with my comment? or Rude? I didn’t mean to be.

Grace is essential for the gifts of Wisdom and Understanding.

Everyone is offered grace at least sufficient so that they can know God.

But grace can be refused and misused.

Because grace Belongs To God; He alone determines who is offered grece; what type and how much. We are NEVER to judge others; but God can and will.

When someone like the Pastor makes obvious a position not held by us it is often wise to respond ONLY by prayer. Our task is NOT conversions; that’s God’s task.

We are to
know well our faith
Live it fully and publicly
Share it WHEN God presents the opportunity
Defend it with facts and charity when necessary.

I think the whole “I am not religious, I am spiritual” thing is common among protestants of the Non-denominational, Mega church variety. My grandmother is a Pentecostal and I was raised non-denominational protestant with Pentecostal leanings and I always use to hear her say “I don’t have a religion. I have a faith. Religion is a group of people who get together who believe the same thing.” LOL. I know… But lots of people make up their own definition of the word “Religion” instead of the real one. Another favorite anti religion saying is “Religion wont get you into heaven” as if it is common for any type of Christian to say “Only religion will get you into heaven”

Why bother reading anything that has to do with what Greg Laurie or any other evangelicals of his variety are up to? He may have a following and I am sure he is a Baptized Christian and is only doing and teaching what he thinks is right but he has NO spiritual authority what so ever above any other lay-person Christian. When you think of it that way, it is more like “Meh, whatever” when you hear someone who thinks they do have some kind of authority lay their interpretations of scripture and take of Christianity on you, as if you should listen to them like faithful Catholics do to the Pope.