June 6, 2012

'It's time to reflect. My own instincts are to enjoy the security of knowing things have not been upset. We're not going back. Peace has arrived. It's a beautiful morning. Or, as Meade just said: "It's morning in Wisconsin." But if the recall election had gone the other way, there would have been lusty gloating and aggressive interpretation of what it all means. What a stern repudiation of conservative politics it would have been!

1. "[D]efense of public sector unions is now a non-starter..." (This was known after the primary, when Barrett defeated Falk. Then Barrett had nowhere, really, to go. But he tried, with vague themes like bringing back "Wisconsin values" and making it possible for neighbors to speak to neighbors. The whole idea of the recall stopped making sense. )

2. The "coalition of disaffected independent voters, tea party activists, and Republicans held together." (Disaffected? I'd say the independent voters — e.g., me — coolly assessed the situation in Wisconsin and decided it's best to keep going in this direction.)

3. "[T]he Republican Party’s use of technology in its GOTV efforts really paid off.... The Democrats handed the GOP a marvelous gift of a recall that went on and on and on. By the time everyone got to the gubernatorial recall, the GOP had its GOTV tweaked perfectly." (Interesting. I kept hearing about how amazing the Democrats were on getting out the vote. The GOP never contacted us. We got 2 in-person visits from Democrats in the days before the election — in addition to Dem robo-calls — but on election day, we got nothing. I think one of the individuals who encountered Meade at the door — I never answer the door — figured out we were people who shouldn't be gotten out.)

4. We can discern that "Barack Obama is extremely nervous." (He was nervous and he showed it. That tweet-only contact with Wisconsin was an embarrassing display of nervousness. It made me think of that old 2008 theme: He voted present.)

5. "[E]xit polling does not work well for recall elections." (I'd say exit polling is so deeply defective that it should be ignored. I saw CNN using exit polling to make a show out of the night, to push ratings. They have these spiffy displays, to show numbers, which John King purports to explain to Wolf Blitzer, but the numbers are — I will presume from now on — bogus. It's like finding out "American Idol" doesn't count the phoned-in voters. No. It's worse. At least "American Idol" contestants are actually singing. But John King explaining the meaning of things that are not real? Why are we watching that? Is that independently entertaining? I can imagine a reality show where contestants are given ridiculous and false factoids and then they are judged by how much we enjoy their efforts to explain them. Actually, I used to play a little game like that with my sons when they were little. It was called "What if you had to argue...?")

6. "Barack Obama is still the favorite" in Wisconsin. (Is he relying on the exit polls?! I think the Obama people are completely freaked out now. And the better Walker does over the next 5 months, making things work — or making us feel that things are working — without the static or protests and recall and with economic numbers improving, the more the people of Wisconsin may get the impression that Romney can do things like that at the national level and save us from the depredations of liberal policy.)

7. "MSNBC is consistently the most entertaining news network in America when things go badly for the left.... I was actually concerned that Ed Schultz might have a medical episode on live television last night. It was … surreal." (I didn't watch much MSNBC. I get my fill of lefty acting-out in real life here in Madison. But maybe it is a fun TV show. Lord knows the CNN attempts at explaining nonexistent things are useless.)

Erickson has an 8th item, but he won't fully commit to it as a conclusion: "Anger does not win elections." (Anger... what exactly are we talking about? Dumb rage is unappealing, but some kind of fervor is needed. I think Barrett was a bad candidate because he was basically bland on the issues, he claimed he would restore good feeling, but he would rear up with angry talking points intermittently. This doesn't convince people that it's worth ousting somebody who's in the middle of doing a job that seems to be working and who seems reasonably steady and competent.)

MSNBC is consistently the most entertaining news network in America when things go badly for the left

Why would anyone be watching TV in the Summer? It was absolutely gorgeous last night for a twilight walk, or a bike ride to the Capitol. To sit on one's duff and watch pontificators? Spare me. Maybe the weather was crappy where Erick Erickson lives.

I'd say exit polling is so deeply defective that it should be ignored.

MSNBC is toting their exits polls showing Obama with a 9-point edge on Romney among yesterday's voters. THis seems utterly nuts when contrasted with the can of whup-ass opened on the Dems in the real poll. I often wonder how MSNBC continues to stagger on like a gut-shot zombie. Maybe it's the comedy gold that rational people can enjoy by riffing Matthews, Maddow et al. MST3K-style.

Someone should make a post: Seven things People who worked for the Recall can do now that they have extra time on their hands. All that energy that was previously being (it turns out) wasted could now be put to great use.

#1 should be: Help out in a school, any school. I've a friend who tutors Math students at West High, and there's a crying need for more people.

#2: Help clean up the state, as in remove litter from alongside waterways. I know there's a day set aside for this each year -- I think it was last week? -- in Dane County, but why not do it all the time?

#3: Plant some trees where they are needed. I've often considered planting -- stealthily -- cherry trees along the SW bike path so that people riding along it can stop for a snack some times during the year (It would sure beat looking at that wretched Mexican Bamboo).

1. "[D]efense of public sector unions is now a non-starter..." (This was known after the primary, when Barrett defeated Falk. Then Barrett had nowhere, really, to go. But he tried, with vague themes like bringing back "Wisconsin values" and making it possible for neighbors to speak to neighbors. The whole idea of the recall stopped making sense. )

I think it was known in Wisconsin well before the primary. If you beamed down from outer space 3 months ago and only had the Democrat talking points and ads to guide you you'd have no idea why there was a recall election. The Dems were scared to death to say "union." Even if Barrett had won it would've been a hollow victory for the unions.

But I don't think that means it's necessarily going to be the case nationwide. People on both sides have infused this election with way too much meaning. I think the only lesson to be learned here is that if you're going to try to recall a governor, it might be good to give actual reasons why he ought to be recalled.

My recollection is that you can't be recalled until you've been in office one year after an election. And by that time, the next Gubernatorial election will be looming.

The real question: What has the state Democratic Party learned from offering up people like Barrett, Falk, Kloppenburg only to see them fall? I could add Linda Clifford to that list as well, I guess. Probably nothing, but there's certainly a lesson there.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature. However, the exit polling is interesting. There were already "recount" flyers being passed out on Monday. Dems are more likely to talk w/ pollsters. I believe union leaders urge their people to talk w/ pollsters to skew the exit polls. Then, when the polls don't comport w/ the actual votes, you hear the screams of RECOUNT..RECOUNT. That was the scenario w/ Bush/Kerry which I believe was serendipitous. It may have just devolved into a strategy. Now, I have to go take my anti-OliverStone meds. More importantly, I don't need to see any political commercials, @ least for a few weeks. I mute all commercials, but seeing pols is a visual affront to me.

In defeat I weep; it is difficult to change the status quo and Walker has that . In the mean time with my eyes wide open, I will take a clue from Madison Man and plant a Maple tree in the front yard to replace the one the city will take down. Congratulation to MeadHouse and fans you got what you wished for.

I agree with Kevin as to why you weren't contacted. Just give $5 to Walker and you'll be bombarded with GOP campaign stuff from now until you go out in a box. I love them but the constant onslaught of mail and calls is bewildering.

Yes, I too turned to MSNBC to see them have the willies over the results. First time in years I've been to that station.

The 1% have been put on notice. The fourth branch of government -- the bureaucracy -- needs to reevaluate its priorities.

exit polling is so deeply defective that it should be ignored

Polling is, ostensibly, designed to influence perception in order to realize a preferred outcome.

The human mind is a far more complex system to model than even the Earth system. As with the Earth system (e.g. climate), it is incompletely characterized and unwieldy.

It (i.e. consciousness) is a chaotic system and it is only reasonable to predict its behavioral envelope. There will never be an effective distribution function to estimate its intervening behavior.

the better Walker does over the next 5 months

That will be a challenge. The fortunes of the states are tied to the health of the nation. The national economy is sustained through a massive (~10% of GDP) accumulation of debt (i.e. manufactured). The inflation and hidden tax on the people and businesses will have progressive consequences as its effects are distributed through the system. We are capable of resisting a finite amount of compression. Unfortunately, no one knows precisely where that limit exists. In the meantime, we enjoy dreams of instant gratification.

Someone should make a post: Seven things People who worked for the Recall can do now that they have extra time on their hands. All that energy that was previously being (it turns out) wasted could now be put to great use.

Instead of the hippie crap you listed in your three suggestions, how about this? Do something that will really make a difference: get a job, start a business, innovate something, in short be productive for gods sake.

Whether you like Walker or not, I think all sensible people, left or right, can be glad that a governor who had done nothing wrong except sign laws that one side did not like was not recalled for doing so. It was an abuse of the political process to have tried to recall him in the first place when had done nothing wrong.

The more unhinged members of the Left seemed to think that to pass conservative-leaning laws at all is a form of malfeasance, as though only left-wing laws are legitimate. They are truly the ones that need to learn about civility and to understand that they are not the only people who count in a society.

Tony Soprano, swinging wildly with his crowbar, utterly assured that his infantile desires will prevail because they always have and because he's willing to do anything to anyone in order to get his way, takes a fist on the chin and goes down for the count.

MadisonMan wroteSeven things People who worked for the Recall can do now that they have extra time on their hands... #1 should be: Help out in a school, any school. I've a friend who tutors Math students at West High...

Gods no! If there's anything the recall supports should stay away from it's math. Numeracy is not their forte, mon frere.

Here is my list of the Seven Things The Recall Supports Should Do With All That Spare Time:

1) Sorting cats. There are a hell of a lot of unsorted felines in this world, and few have any idea how they ought to be categorized (get it? categorized...)

2) Prove the adage "easy as pie" does not apply to rhubarb pie.

3) Develop and test a flotation device for polar bears facing long swims due to AGW. The testing phase should prove interesting and entertaining.

4) Form a conga line from the State Capitol to Governor Nelson Park via Lake Mendota.

5) Organized a low-cal bake sale to raise funds for a tattoo-removal clinic for the chronically hip.

6) Hire some gay guys to pick out a new wardrobe for you, 'cause just look at yourselves... I mean, damn!

Lastly, come the fall swing your efforts behind the Natural Law Party, because you're more likely to levitate than re-elect Obama.

"Just before he left the air Ed Schultz said with a straight face that Walker may be indicted in the next few days."

Ed Schultz is a nut who is paid to say these things. Maryland governor O'Malley said that Walker isn't indicted "yet" last night. Always classy as he runs Maryland and its federal employees' state into the ground.

@Ken:Instead of the hippie crap you listed in your three suggestions, how about this? Do something that will really make a difference: get a job, start a business, innovate something, in short be productive for gods sake.

I think this is a little harsh since I thought it was constructive for a progressive to try to find positive ways to respond to their defeat, but you do raise a good point: I can't recall ever hearing a progressive talk about starting a business or creating some new innovation as a positive thing. Their vision of how to improve the world seems to be mainly about (1) taking rich people's money to spend on poor people to give them free things, and (2) controlling how people live their lives (with the single exception of their sexual lives, where any perversion goes). Bloomberg's soda ban comes to mind here.

Exit polling is so untrustworthy, all it does is count eggs before they hatch. I very rarely hear about exit polling when it does well; but when it is does poorly, the effects can be disastrous. See: Florida, 2000.

Walker's courage from a sincere faith in God and Wisconsinites love for their neighbors outlasted the Madison jerks best street theater story lines pretending they are offended victims.

Those were the same two factors that determined the outcome on Omaha Beach 68 years ago.

CNN's Clinton imbeds looked schizophrenic last night first throwing a bomb at Obama, and then throwing off the wall criticism towards the GOP , and then throwing another bomb at Obama, and then grinning like they knew they were caught stealing.

"The fourth branch of government -- the bureaucracy -- needs to reevaluate its priorities."

One reason why French government is so silly and has been since WWI, is that France is actually run by the bureaucracy (a French word). The difference is that, in France, they are competent. All are required to take competitive examinations to get jobs. Can you imagine that happening here ?

Noted: RV is the only leftward leaning commenter to acknowledge defeat in a relatively graceful way.

Where are the other lefties out there: Allie? Leslyn? Bailey? Garage--not only do you lack graciousness, you lack the courage to acknowledge you got your fucking asses kicked. The good citizens of Wisconsin bested you, and your candidate got his face slapped by some bint. Classy, lefties--very classy.

Another conclusion: Milwaukee and Madison are not Wisconsin. Barrett piled up a 200,000 vote advantage in these two counties with a big percentage edge, but lost the rest of the state by about 400,000 votes. This implies something beyond a Republican-Democratic battle. The original Wisconsin Progressives--the real Progressives--had rural and small community roots. They distrusted monied and powerful elites (in that time Wall Street and eastern Yankee power). and now Madison and Washington. If Romney can tap into this vein, it really is danger time for Obama in Wisconsin. And elsewhere in the midwest.

Very gracious, RV, thank you. How sad that most of the rest of the left aren't even remotely gracious.

IMHO if the Milwaukee DA had ANYTHING to indict Governor on, he'd have done so a couple of weeks before the election. He's got nothing and I think the investigation was kept open simply to try to make the Governor look bad.

A word of caution is in order. I was watching CNN last night when they went remote somewhere. behind Tall Goodhair were a group of masked recall supporters who drowned out Tall with airhorns. My suspicion is you are going to be hearing those airhorns a lot. BTW Tall Goodhair is sarcasm. Directed at all the pretty boys and girls in the media. Long may the airhorns drown them out.

True enough regarding RV, but I don't see how Walker can be considered the status quo. All this turmoil and recall was a response to Walker changing decades of status quo. The whole current conservative movement with it's clear Tea Party vibe is about changing a generation of bad habits. That's the single thing that permeates it all. If the right was into slogans it would be "Hope and Change" and actually mean it.

What I "wish for" is fiscal sanity. Since you're not as obnoxious as most of the anti-Walkerites on the board, I wish you no particular animus. So, come this time next year, if Wisconsin ends up collapsing into financial armageddon, I will admit I was mistaken as to the effect Walker's changes would make and I will apologize. But if Walker should preside over a booming economy and budget surplus, will you have the grace to admit you were wrong?

I had to laugh at Ann's reaction to point #5. Arguing for and against fake "facts" seems like what we commenters do here every day.

Finally, Walker's margin of victory is impressive. BUT the reason for the recall couldn't be mentioned during the campaign. Barrett had no compelling reason to run in the first place other than the party needed to run someone. Barrett had no alternative plan for Wisconsin should he be elected. In short, there was no reason to vote for him (as opposed to against Walker), and yet this cipher still got 46% of the vote. Amazing and a bit frightening.

Thanks to Althouse and Meade for all the coverage from Wisconsin. I have enjoyed following all of this....the protests, the elections, the occupation of the Capitol. Thank you. I am far more informed about what is going on in WI than my friends who have lived there.

Althouse said..."[Obama] was nervous and he showed it. That tweet-only contact with Wisconsin was an embarrassing display of nervousness."

But that's a plus, right? He's being pragmatic about his chances. He's not holding inflexibly to his prior positions and assumptions about winning. If he were not worried, that would suggest that he was an autologue who was too rigidly wedded to his own mythos of invincibility. His weakness humanizes him, making him a more plausible recipient of a vote. No?

Well, I see others view RVs comment as a gracious acceptance of last night's vote rather than a "you want destruction? Hope you get it!" snark. So, in the spirit of bipartisanship, my apologies. Thanks for being a good sport.

An email from police department spokeswoman Anne Schwartz says all threats are handled seriously and can be a criminal act. It says people cannot assume anonymity via social media while issuing a threat to another's safety or life. Schwartz declined to elaborate.

on the bright side, in 48 hours the wisconsin contretemps will be ancient history, and long forgotten by all except a few die hard lefties. The media can now turn its attention to catching Mitt Romney drinking a cup of coffee or a coke (not the kind the President blew)--and the the slime fest to november will continue apace.

Thanks to Althouse and Co. for the coverage dating all the way back to last year. What a story. And thanks to all the WI voters who fought back against the corrupt Unions and their thugs. But most of all, thank you to the Liberals. You showed the world what you are really like, and there's no going back now. Thanks for your greed, your dishonesty and your multiple attacks on the rule of law. You've always been the worst of the worst in American politics, and bnow even Obama has given you the back of his hand. Pathetic bunch through and through.

I'm at a loss to understand why we're to view RV or any of his ilk as "good guys"

This, sums up my view completely:

Let me be clear. These people are not well-meaning do-gooders who have just gone a bit too far. They don’t actually “mean well” at all. They don’t mean well, they mean to be in control. They are power-fetishists, drunk on the joys of bossing the little people around. They are not good people. They are evil. They should be ashamed of themselves, but shame — like taxes — is for the little people.

"MadisonMan said...The real question: What has the state Democratic Party learned from offering up people like Barrett, Falk, Kloppenburg only to see them fall? I could add Linda Clifford to that list as well, I guess. Probably nothing, but there's certainly a lesson there."

The Democratic Party? Wake up dude. The problem is not with the Party, it's with the constituents. You were trashed in '10, again today. It's gonna happen again in the fall. There are no stars on the left. It was an open primary. Shit, you guys wanted Feingold who just got his ass handed to him. Barrett, loser. Falk, loser. Obey, loser. LaFollette and Vinehout, kooks. Barka, Hulsey, and Mitchell morons. All but Barrett from the far left. Telling that Barrett was your pick.

The rising stars are on the right...conservatives. The Democratic Party moves to the left. No one is buying what they are selling and I'm telling you, they just don't get it. The most common comment I hear is what morons the voters of WI are. Liberalism has failed. Sadly for liberals they prefer an echo chamber, and therefore don't hear the drum beats.

Have to disagree with #5 (In think Erickson is a bit of a blowhard, anyway). Fox nailed it out of the starting gate. They said Walker's 5 point lead would hold and he won by 6 (after leading well in double digits most of the night).

And, yes, 6 is in doubt, too. There was one canvass of states which had elected Republican governors 2 years ago that had the Romster down by only 2 in WI. That's probably closer to the truth than a lot of people want to think - this election was about the way Wisconsinians (what are you people anyway?) see how their fiscal problems (which mirror the country's) should be solved.

Quaestor said...

What are we to make of the Lehman - Wanggaard race? Is the WI Senate too Red or does the GOP candidate have too many vowels in his name?

5 out of 6 is never bad; besides, in November 10 of 16 Senators up for re-election are Demos. Odds are Walker will still have a Republican Senate next January.

I suggest an additional conclusion: The nature of Republican politics has changed.

The demographics of Republicans in Wisconsin, and especially those who consider themselves conservative, has shifted to younger, more energetic people. They have learned how to punch back hard; how to organize rallies, and how to win the ground war for their candidates.

Republicans used to be older, more genteel, more Rotary Club and Country Club types. Nelson Rockefeller types. Not any longer.

Did you see the photos of the high school kids wearing their I Stand With Walker tee shirts to school? Did you see them crowded around Walker at the victory rallies? Ditto college kids, and those in their twenties, thirties and forties.

This victory in Wisconsin shouldn't be seen as a one-time event. The demographics don't favor the Democrats. The old hippies are dying off, and the young conservatives are taking their places.

Helping state run schools, funded by forcefully taking other people's money. Funny how you didn't mention that.

But, now that we're on the topic, the left puts way too much emphasis in schooling (not the same thing as actual education). As we've seen for the last few decades, the best Americans do on international standardized tests is middle of the ground. However, America is ground zero to scientific cultural innovation. In other words, us dullard Americans, who don't take too kindly to no book learnin manages, somehow, to kick the ass of every other nation on earth when it comes to, you know, producing things people actually want and find useful. This has always been a mystery to people on the left.

Any idea why that is? School dulls the senses and teaches people to sit down, shut up, and listen to others, rather than take initiative and create something people find useful. In fact, doing that very thing is frowned upon in many schools and by the left in general.

For you, somehow focusing on planting a tree or picking up garbage, rather than not littering in the first place and working productively, or making someone sit quietly while you lecture them, is what you think people should do.

The recall election had a whole different feeling for me than any other election that I have experienced.

For me, up to now, if my candidate got the most votes, I'd feel victorious. If my candidate was re-elected with the most votes, I'd feel victorious. If my candidate got fewer votes, I'd feel defeated. If my candidate was not re-elected with fewer votes, I'd feel defeated.

With the recall, my candidate got the most votes, but instead of feeling victorious, I felt a sense that that we kept something that we had already earned and that we shouldn't have had to fight to keep it. Had Walker lost, I would have felt like something that had been earned had been unfairly taken away.

Given the unusual vibes of the recall, I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions at all for Obama, for Romney, for Walker in the next regular election cycle, or for anyone else or for any issue arising out of the campaign.

LincolnTf said...Thanks to Althouse and Co. for the coverage dating all the way back to last year. What a story. And thanks to all the WI voters who fought back against the corrupt Unions and their thugs. But most of all, thank you to the Liberals. You showed the world what you are really like, and there's no going back now. Thanks for your greed, your dishonesty and your multiple attacks on the rule of law. You've always been the worst of the worst in American politics, and bnow even Obama has given you the back of his hand. Pathetic bunch through and through.

Jonah Goldberg, quoting Harold Meyerson, who channeled Fred Siegel, wonders how the left will react to this defeat. I don't know Wisconsin well, but maybe people there are tired enough by now to revert to their civic culture of lore.

But how will the left react if the same thing happens to Obama and the U.S. Senate?

Helping state run schools, funded by forcefully taking other people's money. Funny how you didn't mention that

Why the assumption that I'm suggesting helping out only state-supported schools? If someone has time to support any school, I'm sure it's welcome. Maybe even schools that don't force their students to sit down and shut up.

Here's a question for you: How many home-schoolers do you think I have helped with science curriculum in the past year?

What Althouse doesn't mention, however, is that Walker's road from here on out is going to be a huge pain in the ass. With the power in the State Senate flipping, it's going to be impossible to get anything done.

How many home-schoolers do you think I have helped with science curriculum in the past year?

How many young people have you helped find a job? How many young people have you helped market something? How many jobs have you created or provided for young people? These things are far more important than helping a home schooled child than helping them understand whatever science you may know.

"What Althouse doesn't mention, however, is that Walker's road from here on out is going to be a huge pain in the ass. With the power in the State Senate flipping, it's going to be impossible to get anything done."

No Bill you are wrong. The WI Senate is out of session until after the November election. 10 Democrat Senate seats are up then and with the re-districting, the Republicans are going to easily take back control.

"Bill said...What Althouse doesn't mention, however, is that Walker's road from here on out is going to be a huge pain in the ass. With the power in the State Senate flipping, it's going to be impossible to get anything done."

What Bill doesn't mention is that the Senate has 16 seats up for grabs in November, is basically on recess til next January, and has favorable districts because of redistricting, so will likely retake it before then.

"... The Wisconsin Senate will be out of session until 2013. In November, 16 of the 33 seats will be up for grabs, and thanks to the redistricting that will be in place for the first time in that election, Republicans are supposed to pick up at least two seats. The unions spent millions of dollars and over a year’s worth of effort to get a temporary one-seat majority in a chamber that will never meet in session. And that’s assuming that their lone win from last night holds up in a recount. Congratulations, Big Labor!

What of all the other races? Unions and Democrats contested ten state Senate races over the past year, one Supreme Court position, and the Governor and Lt. Governor offices. They ended up farther back than when they started. Scott Walker improved his 2010 performance by 125,000 votes, and Barrett lost by a bigger percentage than in 2010. Rebecca Kleefisch trounced her opponent, who hadn’t even been on record as voting until 2008."

More reality:"This led to an inevitable amount of whining afterward about Democrats being outspent 7-1, but that only looks at the spending from the campaigns, and only in the gubernatorial election. Unions dropped millions into Wisconsin in an effort to punish politicians who had the temerity to impose some fiscal discipline on the government class. They calculated that voters would find bureaucrats more sympathetic than the taxpayers getting fleeced by the WEAC Trust and the PEUs. They bet wrong."

I didn't think any of it was hippie crap. If I lived in Wisconsin and found cherry trees on the trails I would be thrilled. (sidenote, one trail here has some kind of berries. I think they are edible, but I don't know what they are so I've never tried them).

No Bill you are wrong. The WI Senate is out of session until after the November election. 10 Democrat Senate seats are up then and with the re-districting, the Republicans are going to easily take back control.

Yes, that counts. Good job. Keep it up. Finding young people jobs is hard with all the job restrictions the left imposes on all workers and the extra burdens you put on young workers, like the minimum wage.

Allie - it's telling that you are more disgusted that unions were rejected then fiscal irresponsibility of running gigantic deficits, or the immorality of forced union dues collections. You are nothing but a left-wing hack.

Allie: glad you got some sleep and thank you for your work in what seems to have been a quixotic quest. The people spoke, and quite loudly A 9 to 10 point victory is a landslide. You appear to have gotten their message even if you may have not liked it. I trust we can depend on you to keep the republican administration's feet to the fire in Wisconsin.

So Walker lost by 100K votes in Dane & Milwaukee counties EACH. Tell me how that's a recipe for long term success, writing off all urban areas to the Democrats. Remember, America becomes more urban, less white every day.

Thanks Wisconsin. Today is the first time in a while that I see we just might have a chance to save this nation. Still a long shot and all uphill, but if the cheezeheads can do it, maybe the rest of us can.

Unfortunately, my beloved California might just be best considered a national park, where you can come enjoy the natural beauty, but return home to fiscal safety and freedom. We will live off of recycling the trash you leave us, if you would be so kind.

Tell me how it's good for the body politic to have highly divided states where a county is either red or blue. This is a toxic culture we're living in and it can't end well. This seems like a prelude to another bloody civil war.

I think a possible reason you were not contacted by the GOP depends on your party and primary history. I don't know what's done in Wisconsin, but in Virginia, if you never vote in a Republican primary, we will avoid your door like a plague, because we want to get out votes from our own side, not provoke a confrontation.

notice how each side demonizes the other. Each side engages in dehumanzing rehetoric that is the equivalent of mental masturbation but does nothing to sway anyone. The most disturbing thing to me is how virtually any secular teenager you talk to these days is a super rabid left-winger.

In general, I think people tie up too much of their identity in politics. Being disgusted by who wins or loses and only happy when it goes your way is to political. Vote, move on with your life. Politics is not life.

Alex, writing off the big cities is a mistake that Republicans make. In Pennsylvania, the Republicans campaign hard in most of the state, and do well in most of the state. Areas with less popoulation. Then lose by a landslide in Philadelphia, a metro with a HUGE population.

Same in Minnesota. Republicans do well in most of the state, but lose by a very very large margin in Minneapolis and St Paul. They don't really try in those 2 cities, hence you get Mark Dayton and crazy Al Franken representing the state.

You need to start at the bottom level in the big liberal cities to eventually see change. Think about how the left used the "long march through the institutions" starting 40 years ago, to take power.

There is a reason why high population density centers tend to favor left-wing ideology (i.e. collective). It is a factor of the people who constitute them, but also because of the circumstances which establish them. They exchange liberty for submission with benefits as they are forced to coexist with millions of competing interests in close proximity. Individuals who have delusions of grandeur, opportunists, and the vulnerable all favor left-wing ideology as a rule and not the exception.

I mean, is there a bigger bunch of childish asses than the modern "progressive"?

How about classic progressives, like Emma Goldman (who advocated using dynamite to kill political enemies to foment change), or Big Bill Haywood, who likely was responsible for murdering a governor? Both eventually were deported to the then brand-new USSR.

Charming people, both. Not really childish, I suppose, and neither produced much but misery.

Why in the world should people who lie as a manner of course, wish death on their political opponents, and want to take tax payer money and funnel it to a special interest who will vote for their party and more special interest funding, be treated with grace in defeat?

Their ideology is a sick joke, and that is why I treat them with contempt & disdain at every turn.

If they were at all capable of critical thinking, intellectual honesty, or admitting error, they would be treated more fairly.

edutcher said: 5 out of 6 is never bad; besides, in November 10 of 16 Senators up for re-election are Demos. Odds are Walker will still have a Republican Senate next January.

Agreed. What I don't "get" is why did they even bother with a Senate recall at all since the Wisconsin Senate is in "out of Session" until November when an election occurs for 16 of the 33 Senator slots. (Der WaPo this morning called the purported lehman win "symbolic")

I'm about as conservative as a person can be, and I think you are reaching on calling MadisonMan's list "hippie crap".

Tough.

He's talking about channeling all the frustration and anger the liberals have right now into something useful and peaceful.

No, he's not. None of the things he listed are useful, although they are peacefule. That was the entire point of my response to him: be useful.

I infinitely prefer MadisonMan's suggestions, myself.

Of course, what you suggested is stupid. My suggestions on the other hand were helpful and intelligent or do you really think that my suggestions to "get a job, start a business, innovate something" are equivalent to "turn their anger against Republicans, keying cars, menacing dependents and sending death threats."? Because I don't know of any self-respecting conservative (what you are claiming to be) would think that. Or did you simply ignore my suggestions?

MadisonMan, if you plant those trees on an easement or public property instead of your own private property you can pretty much count on the public union workers tearing it out because THEY didn't do it and you didn't have a permit. Heck, you're trying to rob them of their work!

In Pennsylvania a couple of years ago a town let go a bunch of it's public works workers on the basis that they didn't have enough money to pay them. A local Eagle Scout candidate decided to upgrade/fix up a length of a local trail through the local park as his Eagle project. He went to the municipal board for approval. The local SEUI President threatened to file a grievance on the basis that it was THEIR work and the municipality had no business letting volunteers do work when they should be hiring the public workers back to do it.

Seriously! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575650,00.htmlSorry if you don't like Fox News, but it's not like MSNBC is going to cover a story that makes a public workers union official look bad.

Yes Gerry they did. All of us who live here are Wisconsinites, lets keep that in mind. My Waukesha County neighbors were shooting off fireworks till very late at night and a few good friends and neighbors even stopped by with some goodies, for real, lol. Now THAT is the real Wisconsin.

I do give credit to Governor Walker at his acceptance speech last night when he shushed the crowd.

Exit polling is wrong because conservatives don't trust the media to use the information they give them responsibly and thus do not participate in exit polling as much as the left does. So exit polls are skewed left.

Madison Man - 1st, kudos for showing up. I took my lumps online when Obama was elected, so I know how you feel.

2nd - when your colleagues show up in the civic arena to perform service, they're going to find that there are plenty conservatives already there. Like me, in my 20th year as a Scouter (i.e., an adult Scout leader). I've dealt with hundreds of kids. I've taken them rock climbing, skiing, canoeing in Canada and hiking in Japan. I've taught them not with books and lectures but hands on how to cook, clean, fish, paddle, sharpen a knife, build a fire and cut down a (dead or diseased) tree with an axe. I've put them to bed, gotten them up, fixed their cuts and cleaned their blood off of their snowboards when they wipe out.

So - who do you think they ask questions of and listen to when they want to know about things? Some guy blowing a vuvuezela and carrying a sign? Or me?

You have to tell your people to go out and engage folks. My people are already out there.

Imagine how conservatives feel having the most leftist member in all of congress elected President after electing the likes of the Pelosi congress. That's political pain. Add to it the realization that real ideas about policy were not behind it at all, but that it was driven by silly ideas of Hope and Change, racial healing, guilt, Repub fatigue, and a lot of outright tribalism.

I will grant that, for you, this is worse in that you are seeing a direct rejection of your actual ideas and policy, and that would really sting.

But think it through. The policies of the Dems were bankrupting the state and FORCING people with less income and benefits to support others much better off. Those people doing the supporting had no voice at the bargaining table. Voting is all they have, and they were forced to use it to protect themselves from that greed.

This is going to continue into the future, because the alternative is simply unsustainable. It's not just ideology - it's math.

I suggest - and I'm serious - that you consider accepting the truth of the math, and get on the team that is going to fix it and save us. we need your passion to do it. You don't want to wake up in 10 years and find yourself a dinosaur who simply failed to evolve. Use your head, and your heart will follow. It never works the other way in the long run.

Instead of the hippie crap you listed in your three suggestions, how about this? Do something that will really make a difference: get a job, start a business, innovate something, in short be productive for gods sake.

Plant a tree... good grief, get over yourself.

Madison Man means well and strikes me as a rational moderate type of person...... but this suggestion just embodies everything that is wrong with liberalism. It is all about the gesture and no thought whatsoever to the practicalities. The follow through and consequences.

Plant a cherry tree and feel good about yourself and walk away. However, you also need to make sure the tree is appropriate for your location. Water, stake and prune the tree. Protect the new tree from deer or other animals who will decimate the new shoots. Spray it with dormant oil in the winter to avoid aphid infestation. Spray with insecticide ( I use Sevin) when the aphids attack. Water, prune, spray. Rinse and repeat.

Follow through. Never done by the Liberals.

Exit polling is stupid. People will either tell you to Eff off or lie to you so you will leave them alone. Those with an agenda will be anxious to give you distorted information.

Alex said... Tell me how it's good for the body politic to have highly divided states where a county is either red or blue. This is a toxic culture we're living in and it can't end well. This seems like a prelude to another bloody civil war.

Really. We should cut the country in half and let one side be Cons and the other lib - check back in 25 years to see what's what.

--ll me how it's good for the body politic to have highly divided states where a county is either red or blue. This is a toxic culture we're living in and it can't end well. This seems like a prelude to another bloody civil war.--

Because that's human nature. Those dead white slave owners were brilliant. Having elections every 2 years is the escape valve. The tree of liberty....

AllieOop said... "Well here's my take, I'm sad, I'm disgusted and will accept that the people of Wisconsin spoke. The people of Wisconsin exercised their Wisconsin Constitutional right to recall, now it's done, over."

It's not over. What must happen next is that the recall provision must be excised from your constitution in order to prevent this silliness from being repeated. Recall elections are poison; by holding the knife to politician's throats, they strongly discourage policies and actions that cause short-term pain for long-term gain. When officers face regular elections that aren't widely-spaced in time, there should not be a recall provision.

In defeat I weep; it is difficult to change the status quo and Walker has that.

1st - as I said to MadisonMan, kudos for showing up.

2nd - I thought the whole point of the recall organizers was that Walker was changing the status quo! Remember - the objection was that the bills that he signed off on represented a huge change in how business has been done up to this point in Wisconsin.

If you want to learn something from this election, learn this: Walker was elected because he promised to change the status quo, and he was re-elected because he actually did change the status quo. If you want to elect Democratic candidates to the top ticket in Wisconsin you need to face that reality and deal with it in some fashion. And get a candidate who can articulate an actual plan for where he or she wants to take Wisconsin instead of having as his or her main proposition "I'm not the other guy."

I'll say it again; if you want to have a recall provision (what sparked it, anyway?) but don't want it used frivolously, have it reset the term of a victorious incumbent. In such a case Walker wouldn't have to run for election again until 2014.

Simon, you might be surprised to know that last night as I was drowning my sorrows with my conservative neighbors, about half of them said we should retain the recall provision in our State Constitution.

Alex said... "Tell me how it's good for the body politic to have highly divided states where a county is either red or blue. This is a toxic culture we're living in and it can't end well. This seems like a prelude to another bloody civil war."

It will be the shortest civil war in history, if it comes to that. On our side will be the military and most of the people with weapons. On their side will be WholeFoods, byciclists, and people with anti-gun bumper stickers. I hope it never comes to that, but let's not be under any illusions about what happens if it does, and let's not be under any illusions that we are, today, one nation. We are two nations living under one tent, with wildly different cultures and mutually irreconcilable beliefs about where this country came from, what it stands for, and where it should go.

AllieOop said... "Simon, you might be surprised to know that last night as I was drowning my sorrows with my conservative neighbors, about half of them said we should retain the recall provision in our State Constitution."

I have no doubt. Most people don't think about things in terms of principles but rather in terms of immediate utility; they'll use any port in a storm, and that's as true on the right as it is the left, and it's even more acute in the middle. Why get rid of the recall provision when we might need it to attack a Democratic governor? Why get rid of the independent counsel when we might need it to attack a Republican president?

If so, you seem to be highly political, if you were the Chaplain to my daughter in Afghansitan who is serving with the Marines as a Corpsman and is a liberal and progressive, what might you say to her? I know she is upset as I am this morning, while she is over there serving her country.

If you are tired of reflecting, reflect on how Count Dracula reflects. He'd kill for that chance.

@AllieOop,

That you are disgusted shows that you are too emotionally invested in the left. Try using a little more logic, and common sense.

@Alex,

Why does the GOP write off urban areas? Look to Detroit to see the future of those areas, that's why. I used to pooh pooh the idea of the white mans burden, but there is growing proof that it does exist. Sure there are great minority people. I preferred Cain to Romney. But the statistics on them are damning.(and there are a lot of effed up white people too, but statistically smaller than the other groups)

@Bagoh,

My cousin is a L.A. County Sheriff. If 1 Kentuckian can't save your state, no one can. :-)

@RV,

Thank you for being gracious in defeat. Would that more of your side, and mine of winners, were equally so. You had a good run, time to rest.(for those pointing out Zero did it first, bad behavior does not excuse bad behavior. Are you children?)

(the following is general)

It's never a bad idea to tutor someone. If nothing else, it adds to the students wealth of experiences. Experience is not wasted on the young.

The Dem's are totally in a panic mode. The tweet from Axelrod made no sense what so ever. They see the writing on the wall.(Where is Americas Politico? No doubt at the latest Zero fund raiser with the newest shiksa)

Oh whatever Scott, I'm asking him a legitimate question. Is there something wrong with being political and being a Priest, can a Priest maintain his own religious convictions and be highly political? I'm asking, I honestly want to know.

Politics seems a bit dirty to me right now. I'm seriously thinking of never voting again, I may change my mind.

Given the scale of life in the cosmos, one human life is no more than a tiny blip. Each one of us is a just visitor to this planet, a guest, who will only stay for a limited time. What greater folly could there be than to spend this short time alone, unhappy or in conflict with our companions? Far better, surely, to use our short time here in living a meaningful life, enriched by our sense of connection with others and being of service to them.

Allie, I'm not sure why your daughter's chaplain's politics would matter. My parish priest is a big lefty. On the matters for which I seek his guidance, he does quite well. When I try to counsel him on political matters, it doesn't seem to take.

What greater folly could there be than to spend this short time alone, unhappy or in conflict with our companions?

This is what the left is all about: alienating the individual (it's all about the "collective" or "the state"), making them unhappy by setting them in conflict with their fellow man (the left's ideology is driven by envy; hate those that have more than you; set up a political system that will take from those you hate; that political system then sets about stoking that hate). It's there for all to see in this recall election and in plain display on twitter. What unhappiness lefties feel and what conflict the left wants to foist on the world.

use our short time here in living a meaningful life, enriched by our sense of connection with others and being of service to them.

That's what having a job means. Having a job means you are providing some service or product that other people find useful. You are being useful and of service to your fellow man.

Planting a tree to feel good about yourself is, well, only about yourself.

That never seems to be a problem for the left when priests or bishops pontificate about nuclear disarmament, the glory of gay marriage or social justice nonsense. There was a reason why the loathsome Robert Drinan was the left's favorite Catholic priest.

Politics seems a bit dirty to me right now. I'm seriously thinking of never voting again, I may change my mind.

Oh, boo frickin' hoo. Put on your big girl panties, you weeping willow. Funny how fast you went from "the people have spoken" to "it's all rotten and corrupt and I'm taking my ball and going home." I'll bet a week's pay you wouldn't think politics "dirty" if Barrett had won.

If you were the chaplain to my daughter in Afghanistan. . .

And out comes the Cindy Sheehan Ultimate Moral Authority Card. That's it. This thread is officially flushed down the toilet.

I thought you were Dali Lama for life? Born to be the Dali Lama. How can you retire?

We can discern that "Barack Obama is extremely nervous

He should be very nervous. The election in Wisconsin affirming the policies of Walker is not an outlier. Just look at the results in San Jose and San Diego. Huge majorities of the population are rejecting the unionization of public employees. The public knows that they cannot continue to pay and pay. Taxed Enough Already!!!

Second. The exit polls mean nothing. People lie and the data is distorted. Obama is not as popular as he and the media would like you to believe.

Obama and the Dems are grasping at straws and look completely hypocritical when they complain that the Walker side used too much money...WHILE....at the same time Obama is jetting around the country at OUR expense to raise money. WTF? Do they really think we are that stupid.

phx said...From the left (kind of): ...What good is enacting my favored policies if the country is torn apart in the process?

phx's entire comment @9:30 was gracious and on point.

The problem is, of course, that some of us see as absolutely necessary a set of policies that others see as hostile to them or their friends.

I honestly believe that most of the poisonous rhetoric comes from the left these days. I think that's been evident on a micro scale in these comment threads during the long run of this bit of Wisconsin political theater.

But to reply to phx as graciously as possible, let me say that if anyone on the left is willing to discuss in a reasoned way what alternatives they propose to deal with state and federal budget crises now and into the future, I'm sure they'll be met with similarly reasoned replies.

Throwing around charges like "Republicans hate children" or "Walker is a Nazi Koch-puppet", OTOH, are just going to keep things right where they've been.

Why did you delete Yep, and I'll keep bringinging it up evey time someone here says that the military is comprised of conservatives as did Simon?

If you actually have a daughter in the military, surely/shirley you have to at least admit the majority (probably the overwhelming majority) of those that serve tend to the conservative side of the spectrum.