Allen & Heath mix wizard VS. soundcraft m12

just wondering what yall think about these two boards...
eliminated the mackie and behringer route and the midas 160 is TOO expensive. i do mostly hip hop productions with an MPC and synths into PT via digi 001.
any opinions about the pre amps for vocal and occasional acoustic guitar recordings?
how bout the eqs? i plan on using eqs ALOT for manipulating samples and at the mixdown stage.
If i should open my options to any other boards feel free to speak up.
Thanks
jeff

I just saw a used A+H Mix Wizard yesterday at a shop in NYC. It was an interesting looking board. I asked the sales person about it, it had two broken sliders and they were asking $600-$700 for it. I thought it was cool because it is a 'recording' mixer. Always nice to know the designers had recording in mind.

If you go with this board, be sure to get a manual. It was configured in a unique way, it'd be helpful to know how to utilize everything.

I forgot to mention that the A&H has, Pre-insert direct outs. So you can use the inserts without printing them to tape/harddrive. I know Mackie has it the other way around. Dont know about Soundcraft though.

The A&H boards "preamps" are nothing like a Mackie (for the worst). Mackie has a great setup going, in that nearly everyone on the market (in that price range) is copying their boards.
Now Soundcraft is a different story, if I could find an old SC board I would take that in a second!

Behringer (NO), Carvin (No), any company that offers a 16-24 channel board for $600, I won't even look at.

Remember guys, with these boards it's all about the "Preamps" and the "EQ's", thats all you should look at........right??

Originally posted by golli: I forgot to mention that the A&H has, Pre-insert direct outs. So you can use the inserts without printing them to tape/harddrive. I know Mackie has it the other way around. Dont know about Soundcraft though.

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Are you sure about this?

I have this board and don't ever recall whatever is on the insert not going to tape/hd...

I'm was almost certain those direct outs were post..... unless of course there is a pre/post switch that I have forgoteen about because it's always on post! :s:

I dont know about any jumpers. All I know is that the A&H boards I've worked with 14:4:2, 16:2 and GL 2200 all the inserts were NOT printed. But the 24/8 and 32/8 Mackie boards printed the inserts, so we were stuck with those gated drums etc...
It has been awhile since I've looked at the drawings/blueprints of my mixer, so there could well be jumpers inside of it. Some engineer I am :roll: :d:

Originally posted by golli: It has been awhile since I've looked at the drawings/blueprints of my mixer, so there could well be jumpers inside of it. Some engineer I am :roll: :d:

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Maybe a smart one. I have considerable electronics and computer skills and live by the old saying "if it works don't fix it". I've often found that all sorts of gear is harder to take apart without doing damage than it would be to fix if it had good mechanical design.

I just put my old Mackie out to pasture yesterday provided my new Soundcraft holds up better than it. I had to send my Mackie back for the ribbon cable issue and they gave me great service on that. Now it's developed about 6db of internal noise and it's either gone or in standby service. No decision here yet.

I must admit the Mackie is well built mechanically. I'm also sure at one time there board may have been a great buy but mines either a lemon or production cost cuts put a dent in that. I also must say that the Mackie users board is probably the best group on the net. (I've been registered here a long time but right after I registered I lost my link in a system rebuild. I like what I see here so far a lot also and will probably be here also but havn't been here enough to form a good opinion.)

It's a small feature but so far I really like the color coded knobs on my new Soundcraft. It would be best if you could try some of the boards on for your personal layout usability as one consideration before buying. On the other hand I don't know yet how the top mounted jackfield is going to work out for me.

I'm also from the school that likes analog external gear with digital recording. I do mostly remotes and Murphy invites himself enough to every party. I'm not about to give him a written invite to visit me with sync issues between gear. Far to many times I've seen posts, "I have noise and dropouts on this gig, how do I fix it in the mix". I also do not like to do any more AD and DA conversions in my chain, once digital I want it to stay digital thus my mix is done in a computer and outputed digital to CD.

I own an A&H 20:8:2 (they don't make these any more) - it's a dedicated mixer designed for use with an 8-track recorder (doesn't have the onboard effects, like the newer ones). I replaced my Mackie 1604 with it.

I find the EQs to be great, the preamps are better than the Mackies (mine was a CR-1604, though - ymmv), and more importantly, it has more headroom.

If you can find one of these on eBay or whatever, I wouldn't hesitate on it. For my needs, it's a great board, and I'm very, very happy with it - I won't need to swap it out unless I move up to a 24 track system (I have 16 tracks now).