Sunday, October 11, 2015

The first incident happened in San Diego, California a little over a year ago.

"SAN DIEGO - A possibly suicidal man waving what appeared to be a gun was wounded Wednesday in an officer-involved shooting near De Anza Cove, authorities reported.San Diego police got a report that an armed man was making threats and comments about killing himself in the 2800 block of North Mission Bay Drive in Mission Beach shortly after 11 a.m., SDPD public-affairs Lt. Kevin Mayer said.Officers tried in vain to persuade the man to drop the weapon and surrender.The photographer who captured video of the man waving the gun spoke with 10News about being in the line of fire."I knew he was going to do something," said local photographer Ed Baier.Baier was one of the first on the scene and one of the only ones to capture every minute of what would turn out to be a standoff that would last for more than an hour.He was in the middle, less than 100 yards away as the man already negotiating with officers in the park headed back to his car and re-emerged." [Source]

Goof job by the police. They took inventory of the situation and used appropriate force to neutralize the perp.
The second incident took place almost a year ago in Cleveland, Ohio.

"Cleveland police have released a video showing the moment that officers shot a 12-year-old boy in a park on Sunday. Tamir Rice can be seen playing in the snow with a pellet gun before sitting at a bench for three minutes. As the police drive up he can be seen standing up and moving the gun at his waist. Two officers get out with their guns drawn and the boy falls, disappearing behind the car. Rice died of his wounds the following day." [Source]

Besides the obvious things that the two incidents have in common, one glaring thing separates the two. If you said the race of the victims move to the head of the class.

One victim, predictably, ended up dead. The other, in spite of trying to kill himself, did not.

Now we are learning that the police officers who killed 12 year old Tamir Rice acted "reasonably".

I would ask you to look at the case again and tell me if you agree.

"Like lightning … you see the lightning first, then the thunder. So I saw him go down immediately and then I heard the click the crack of the shot and then that was it," said Baier.Medics took the suspect to a trauma center. Police say he is serious but stable condition. The officer who shot the man is a nine-year veteran of the force."
At least this man's family will see him again. The family of Tamir Rice is not so lucky. Pic from thegrio.com

40 comments:

"Besides the obvious things that the two incidents have in common, one glaring thing separates the two. If you said the race of the victims move to the head of the class."

Actually, two things separate these two incidents.

In San Diego, the cops were fully informed of what to expect when they arrived on the scene: a guy who appeared to be suicidal.

In Cleveland, the dispatcher failed to pass on all the pertinent information to the police. The 911 caller had mentioned the person in the park with a gun was a child and that the gun he was holding was "probably fake," but that information was somehow omitted from what was told to the cops. The cops only heard that someone was waving a gun around.

Now, I am not saying the police should be let off the hook, based on these circumstances. Their actions were still grotesquely irresponsible; it was incumbent on them to carry out an independent assessment of the scene and not just rush in guns blazing. This still looks like manslaughter as far as one, and maybe both, cops are concerned.

All I'm saying is that the dispatcher contributed to this tragedy. Had the cops been provided all the details, maybe Tamir Rice would still be alive.

as long as we ALLOW the killer's homies dictate what is correct and what is not... we will have the same old ancient results. I wonder what will happen if I shot someone because he placed his hands on his waistband. I think that the majority race know that our memories are so short term that the story can be changed to fit what they have dictated.

I do remember that the caller told the dispatcher that they thought the gun to be a toy. I know that there is an orange sleeve on the end of toy guns. The "perfect storm " was that the police said that this was missing from the young man's gun. I have lived though/read many scores of policemen's misconduct due to perfect storms in my time.

Each generation must improve our conditions to move forward as dignified people. Actions, such as this murder, should be investigated by the people served. But we are so concerned about being accepted. Like President Obama; I have no uplifting words to say. StillaPanther2

"Besides the obvious things that the two incidents have in common, one glaring thing separates the two. If you said the race of the victims move to the head of the class."

No offense, but I do not wanna be in your class. That class sounds horrible. I'm afraid I wouldn't learn anything at all except that the first and only thing I'm supposed to notice, about any situation and any person, is that person's skin color. For flip's sake, what sorta class is that? The answer to Stormfront?

One "glaring thing" that separates the two to me, long before race even crosses my mind: Different police. (And then one can count down many other differences, long before getting to race. Unless, of course, one takes your class and views race first.)

See, folks on your side of this issue view the police like Borg in Star Trek. They're this monolithic robot, always acting the same and doing the same and learning the same, etc. However, everyone knows that individual police are different. Could it be those who shot the black kid were racist? Most definitely. Could it also be an infinite number of other reasons, like perhaps they had shit training, didn't really need to be cops, reacted poorly in a situation they misrepresented as stressful, etc, etc? Well, not according to folks on that #BlackLivesMatter side of the aisle. All that matters, over everything, is a person's skin color.

Plus the confirmation bias of putting these specific cases side by side is another indication that I don't wanna sit in that class. Why not juxtapose a dead black person next to a dead white person shot by cops? Just type "white man killed by cops" into YouTube and watch all the hits. Why did you specifically juxtapose a wounded victim next to a dead victim?

"I do remember that the caller told the dispatcher that they thought the gun to be a toy. I know that there is an orange sleeve on the end of toy guns. The "perfect storm " was that the police said that this was missing from the young man's gun."

If cops are saying that about the Tamir Rice case, I'm not buying it.

There was all of a couple seconds between when the cops pulled up and when Rice was shot. They did not allow themselves time to evaluate anything, so it's hard for me to believe that an orange tip on the toy gun would've made any difference, in this particular instance. Rice would've been dead anyway before they even noticed that orange tip.

It wasn't a toy gun, it was a pellet gun, and they don't have orange tips. If cops are really so concerned about their personal safety, it seems like they would be knowledgeable in that area. It isn't that hard to learn. We have a problem with the culture that surrounds being a cop in America. Part of it is that, as cops, they hear a lot more about events that they feel impact their safety, and thus feel the need to compensate, which is only human. Much like Fox News viewers, though, the impression they come away with can be badly at odds with reality. For instance: As a resident of Oakland, I am 4 times more likely to be murdered than an average cop in America. I don't feel a need to compensate by arming myself and blasting away at anything that startles me. In fact, I left all four of my guns in Eureka when I moved here 31 years ago. I have found a two pronged strategy that works well against getting murdered: 1) Use your head and don't go where you don't belong when it's likely to be dangerous, and 2) Don't do anything to make anyone want to murder you. Most murders don't occur in a vacuum, there's usually a reason. Maybe a stupid reason, but that is mostly covered by 1). I dug up this link to remember what the ratio of cop murders to Oakland murders was, and after rereading it, am posting it here. It talks (with statistics) about why the claim that the BLM movement has increased cop killings is BS.

"I have found a two pronged strategy that works well against getting murdered: 1) Use your head and don't go where you don't belong when it's likely to be dangerous, and 2) Don't do anything to make anyone want to murder you."

In fairness, those techniques won't work for cops.

Their job is to go where the crime is happening, so that eliminates option 1, and coming to arrest criminals often does make them want to murder you, so that takes option 2 out of the equation as well.

But as I said, their murder rate is still lower than where I live. My point is that in their overcompensation, they are unnecessarily killing people, especially people of color, who they must believe to be more dangerous and in need of summary execution than white people, even though that is not borne out by the facts. It's a dangerous job is not an excuse to indiscriminately murder the citizens who pay them to protect and serve or whatever horseshit they're serving up as PR this week.

I expected the investigators in the The Tamir Rice Case to come up with a Bogus conclusion. This is something that's been going on for too long. That's why The Black Lives Matter movement began. People want to deflect the movement and message away from this, but hopefully they stay focused.

lilacpr2000 said...When an officer HAS to shoot, he MUST SHOOT TO KILL, not to wound or hurt, but to kill.

The funny thing about gun control is some people think we would be safer if only cops had guns.

Police fired more than 100 bullets at newspaper delivery women in a case of mistaken identity in the search for fugitive Chistopher Dornerhttp://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Torrance-LAPD-Manhunt-Mistaken-Identity-Shooting-Newspaper-Delivery-191200561.html

Police fired more than 100 bullets at newspaper delivery women in a case of mistaken identity in the search for fugitive Chistopher Dorner http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Torrance-LAPD-Manhunt-Mistaken-Identity-Shooting-Newspaper-Delivery-191200561.html

11:03 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~See, thas what I'm saying! By all accounts those women shoulda been dead!

May be true. I'm not privy to every storyline on that front. However, the folks I see disparaging those folks do so because those black lives that supposedly matter only seem to matter if the killer is white, preferably an officer. Now, in no way do I fault any organizational effort to change that. But they're the ones supposedly holding black lives up as mattering, and all those blacks killed by other blacks seem to be ignored. Practically everyone ignores those blacks.

It'd be like PETA suddenly leaving all cats behind and doing nothing at all for cats, choosing instead to only focus on dogs while preaching about the ethical treatment of all animals.

I mean, BLM sorta discredits itself. They need someone better handling the branding. Don't claim to stand for all black lives if you're not standing for all black lives. Just stand for those black lives taken by white police, rename the organization to something that's logical and consistent, and go from there. It's like if Burger King only sold chicken or KFC only sold biscuits. Dafuq do they keep those names for?

You don't have to be a right-wing racist to ridicule BLM for hypocrisy. One only need be honest and see that "matter" is relative to the party accused of having taken the life. Black shooter over a turf dispute? Ey, shit happens. Crickets. Black killed by a white officer at a traffic stop? "We need this to change! Black lives matter!" For the latter, hey, I agree. Change it. Rail against it. Take it to police who abuse their power! But change the name, FFS, liars.

What you're saying is that these guys that have been killed by cops woulda been killed by their peers anyway.

Or that since guys are killing each other over turf and drugs, in that case why should anyone protest killings by cops.

But people involved in illegal activity of every color, creed, ethnicity faith etc. have and will always off themselves. Mafioso Italians did it, the Irish liquor runners did it and so on and so forth. That's something else entirely.

These people that have been killed by police have not been involved in any of that. For the majority they were traffic stops and things of that nature.

So it's an entirely different thing don't you see?

Of course all lives matter, but drug dealers, criminals of any color or race, well they will always be in danger from themselves,because of this lifestyle they don't care about themselves.

Black lives that are not necessarily doing anything like that, should be alive today, not dead and buried.

That is the why of 'Black Lives Matter'. If you aren't necessarily doing anything illicit, you really shouldn't have been killed by police in a traffic stop or a similar situation.

Nope. This is always the case. Why put an end to institutionalized killings of blah people because they kill themselves. In the 50's and 60's the same mentality permeated throughout America in regards to the civil rights movement. Why do ya'll care about the few nigras lynched down here when ya'll killing each other up there in Chicago? Like someone mentioned earlier about the Black Panther movie, my wife and I saw it and the same rhetoric they used about the Panthers is being used today with the BLM movement. Those outside of the blah community will never really understand the goals and support for the BLM movement and that's ok. We get it. Just like they had trouble understanding the reason so many were pleased with the OJ verdict. We live in different worlds and many lack the tools to understand our sensibilities.

Lilac, if that's meant as a response to me, all I can assume is that you and PC share a lot in common.

1) ""What you're saying is that these guys that have been killed by cops woulda been killed by their peers anyway." That is not even remotely close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying: You cannot say X matters, campaign that X matters, expect that everyone gets on board with X mattering, when X does not matter. It's not only "black lives." As you admit yourself, there are other variables involved. So, the movement should be InnocentBlackLives matter, or BlacksKilledByCops matter, or WhitesKillingBlacks matter, etc. To say "black lives" implies black LIVES. Simply X. To then throw other criteria on top of that, meaning X matters only IF, is explicitly an issue; e.g. Burger King not selling burgers.

2) "Or that since guys are killing each other over turf and drugs, in that case why should anyone protest killings by cops." Why doesn't reading seem to matter to people? I flatly said, on more than one occasion, that I support fully any organizational effort to get murderous police off the streets or to change this shoot-first mentality police carry. Where you come up that I said people shouldn't be protesting such beggars belief.

3)"That's something else entirely." To the extent they're black, no, it's not. Black lives matter, right? You are explicitly here arguing that, no, they don't. Only if they meet certain criteria do they matter. Absent that, it's the cost of doing business that blacks die.

4) "Of course all lives matter." Obviously not.

5) "should be alive today, not dead and buried." I said differently where?

6) "That is the why of 'Black Lives Matter'." Then change the name to BlacksWhoShouldBeAliveTodayAndWeren'tDoingAnythingLivesMatter. Per your own admitted standard, lives of others...ey, they don't matter as much. Just risky lifestyles.

"Why do ya'll care about the few nigras lynched down here when ya'll killing each other up there in Chicago?"

But were people calling for an end to lynching saying that black lives matter? Or where they saying that it was wrong to lynch people?

Speak of different, some people can't seem to see past the sophistry of it.

If, for instance, a black person was lynched and BLM campaigned on it, the question would still exist: Why don't all black lives matter? I mean, this is very simplistic shit, in terms of branding. If what the BLM movement is trying to put a stop to is white police killing black males, then why present a movement that's supposedly about all black lives? What? Not catchy enough another way? Too wordy? Or too inconvenient to address things killing exponentially more black people than white police?

Maybe some do exist, in fact I'm sure of it, but I don't know of anyone saying to not go after the police, or to not try and change the way some police react to blacks. Wanna protest on that to knock police power down a peg or few? Go for it! But hiding it behind this blanket statement of "black lives" doesn't help the movement gain credibility. The dumb-ass branding geniuses behind this have created nothing but a picked-and-chosen religious-style system that's inherently divisive and ends up resulting in the same shit; e.g. folks singing the "remember the 50s" and "lynching" and "nobody else understands" song. BLM has created apologists out the wazoo, using 100% unadulterated sophistry to argue its credibility.

After all, this is America. You can be white, having grown up in Suitland, poor as all get out, with 99% black folks, seen it all firsthand, and still a guy from a middle-class life, with both parents, a good education, miles and miles away still has this "ours" and "us" airborne osmosis credibility to say, "I understand and you can never understand." Well, your side seems to not understand a few things as well -- like mainly how to name accurately a target to fight it rather than sweepingly claiming X while in no way actually supporting X.

Black lives matter or don't. It's not those evil white people separating blacks into groups here, e.g. "Oh, he's a good one to be black," et al; it's the BLM folks doing that.

" But as I said, their murder rate is still lower than where I live. My point is that in their overcompensation, they are unnecessarily killing people, especially people of color, who they must believe to be more dangerous and in need of summary execution than white people,"

Except cop shootings and killings are near historic lows and cops shoot and kill more whites every year than blahs.

" I have found a two pronged strategy that works well against getting murdered: 1) Use your head and don't go where you don't belong when it's likely to be dangerous, and 2) Don't do anything to make anyone want to murder you. Most murders don't occur in a vacuum, there's usually a reason. Maybe a stupid reason, but that is mostly covered by 1)."

In the 50's and 60's the same mentality permeated throughout America in regards to blahs. We lynched these niggas down here because they was where they didn't belong. We lynched these niggas down here because they stole from us and whistled at our women.

And then he did a use-of-force training scenario and changed his mind.

Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenariosIt was the same results for both of us; things happen so fast. FOX 10 asked Maupin what his biggest take-away from the exercise will be. "I didn't understand how important compliance was, but after going through this; yes my attitude has changed, this happens in 10-15 seconds. People need to comply for their own sake," said Maupin.http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/1382363-story

Quanell X, the leader of the New Black Panther Party in Houston also changed his mind.

A walk in their shoes: Quanell X trains with local policeHe'll walk away, calling for people to comply with police.

"Please brothers and sisters, if they tell you to do something, do it," said Quanell. "When the suspect started being combative or argumentative, I want to pull my gun."

He's shocked at how many shots he fired, something he so often questions in police shootings.

"I think I might have emptied my clip," said Quanell, and standing in a cop's shoes, Quanell wants them to have more backup.http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/2015/02/04/quanell-x-trains-with-the-missouri-city-police-department/22901953/

I wonder why these Black leaders aren't getting more face time in the media.

Nope. This is always the case. Why put an end to institutionalized killings of blah people because they kill themselves.

2:13 AM~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~This is what I wrote:

"But people involved in illegal activity of every color, creed, ethnicity faith etc. have and will always off themselves. Mafioso Italians did it, the Irish liquor runners did it and so on and so forth. That's something else entirely.

These people that have been killed by police have not been involved in any of that. For the majority they were traffic stops and things of that nature.

So it's an entirely different thing don't you see?"

Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. To eradicate crime and criminal activity for a group like Black Lives Matter in my opinion is virtually impossible, government intervention and programs to eradicate poverty are absolutely needed. Because that is a large scale operation.

But people that keep on saying that the Black Lives Movement is hypocritical because it cares about some and not others. Are in effect trying to defeat the movement.

So what I'm saying is that while of course all Black lives matter, What I perceive the BLM movement to be about is that innocent, decent law abiding citizens are being profiled and targeted and stopped for harassment, fines. incarceration and death!

That is what I meant when I wrote that it's a different thing. Not that one life matters while another does not.

Pilot said: " Those outside of the blah community will never really understand the goals and support for the BLM movement and that's ok. We get it. Just like they had trouble understanding the reason so many were pleased with the OJ verdict. We live in different worlds and many lack the tools to understand our sensibilities.

2:13 AM~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well,true that I do not live in the black community, and while I am beige, I am not black, even though I have close relatives that are black, and whose stories I have heard them tell about other relatives and distant ones that actually were slaves here in P.R., Stories full of sadness, pain, toil, trouble and injustices galore. and I may not have actually seen these injustices, but then again neither have you.

So having been discriminated against as well also, I feel I do have some of the "tools to understand these sensibilities" and maybe then some...:)

From a yardie....did you know that a post you made about the death of Sarah two Circles inspired a mural of her alongside images of Sandra bland and semira adamu..post an email contact and we will send you details

That, or maybe they're just trying to suggest a movement not be so blatantly hypocritical. If a movement wants credibility, act credible. Using black as a shield is divisive, and that is precisely what some are doing here: Using black as a shield; e.g. you can't stand against this, or else you're saying you want all blacks X, and Y, and whatever other random thoughts spring to mind.

These paranoid delusions of any criticism instantly being the Klan lurking in the shadows to trample on blackness are just laughable.

"I'd like to see you put forward a solution that 'speaks truth to power'"

Hell, we're talking about police powers in a nation where, right or left, both parties continually enlarge government and bestow upon police powers to act in such a way. Beyond voting third-party and drastically limiting the scope of government, I don't have a solution. I just know the solution can't be political. And that's a tough sell on this blog in particular, which is expressly political. People here just love throwing others into political categories: extreme left, far-right, etc.

I was arguing with far-right conservatives are Bernie Goldberg's earlier this week. One guy said we had to stop Muslims from coming into America because they breed faster than whites. Another said that Kim Davis was right to act on her religious freedoms because homosexuals are like farm animals, in that they don't have Constitutional protections. I mean, we can't let these people dictate how police act. They're fucking insane. And as can be seen clearly from progressive-minded people, they don't care an iota about the hypocrisy and religious-like apologetics used to support BLM. They want to use "black" as a shield. They don't have answers either. They're hoping to scream loudly enough that cops focus their efforts on white neighborhoods.

The only possible solution I can think of is a smaller government with a police force not allowed to act how it acts. We can go get the new iPhone or SG whatever, but technology can't give us a better set of non-lethal weapons police can use? Better rubber bullets? Better sprays? Better tasers? Technology can't create a sound resonance weapon or a more impactful bean bag to use rather than using live rounds? Government doesn't support such because government wants the police to grow as they are.

I think it's funny that they need an opening act for a political debate. Is my finding it funny important in the scheme of life, of course not.

As someone that has performed on stage I understand the discussion about using the opening act to bring in people. The bigger the act the less important, not many opening acts for the Temptations or Tom Jones.

Field, you ever gonna do a post on airborne osmosis? To see what I mean, just read PX's comments that blacks inside of certain communities can understand what those outside possibly cannot, and then Lilac knowing exactly everything because...well, reasons. Airborne osmosis.

Osmosis, in this context, is the precise, predicted movement of life experience that penetrates through all logic, all science, all reason, and afflicts people with X amount of melanin, moving from A to B, thus giving a light-skinned dude in Germany cause to say he has a kinship with folks in the heart of DC, a shared life experience, a shared frame of reference, because they share the explicitly trivial factor of somewhat similar skin tones. Airborne, of course, because that's how it seems to travel. That's how growing up with both parents in a middle-class neighborhood, in a good school, makes person B know, strangely, exactly what it's like to be person A who lives in the PJs, went to a shit school, was arrested 5 times as a juvenile, and is suspect #1 every time the police need an out.

Does B just want to seem cool? B needs himself some street cred so claims oppression? Dafuq is going on here? This is obviously one of those "black things" white folks can't understand. But can anyone actually understand it? It's either every f'n non-black on the planet is operating a system of oppression against only black folks, or some folks are suffering a serious identity crisis and projecting their own personal identity hang-ups onto public as "racism" and "oppression."

This theory, which is clung to a drop of water in the desert, puts LeBron's son on equal footing as Tavon from B'more's son. One is rich, has a private education, a celebrity pops, one is poor, goes to a shit school, and a father that's not around. Though because they share a skin tone, it's assumed they both know, within a friggin' 0.0001% margin of error, what it is to be "black." And A's complaint about no "black" shampoo in the hotel room will be placed on equal footing as B shot three times by police.

The black collective through airborne osmosis. No wonder the #1 thing I see here, besides trolls cursing, is supposed black people questioning the "blackness" of other people. Accusing folks of being "white" as an insult.

Is this one also the fault of white folks? Y'all are here on some chakras and chi centering mysticism shit.

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