Cardinal Antonio Cañizares confirmed this Tuesday at an address at the Spanish Embassy to the Holy See on "Catholic Liturgy since Vatican II: Continuity and Evolution."....The cardinal criticized the effort to make the Mass "entertaining" with certain songs -- instead of focusing on the mystery -- in an attempt to overcome "boredom" by transforming the Mass into a show.....He added that the Council did not speak of the priest celebrating Mass facing the people, that it stressed the importance of Christ on the altar, reflected in Benedict XVI's celebration of the Mass in the Sistine Chapel facing the altar. This does not exclude the priest facing the people, in particular during the reading of the word of God. He stressed the need of the notion of mystery, and particulars such as the altar facing East and the fact that the sacrificial sense of the Eucharist must not be lost.

Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

Cardinal Antonio Cañizares confirmed this Tuesday at an address at the Spanish Embassy to the Holy See on "Catholic Liturgy since Vatican II: Continuity and Evolution."....The cardinal criticized the effort to make the Mass "entertaining" with certain songs -- instead of focusing on the mystery -- in an attempt to overcome "boredom" by transforming the Mass into a show.....He added that the Council did not speak of the priest celebrating Mass facing the people, that it stressed the importance of Christ on the altar, reflected in Benedict XVI's celebration of the Mass in the Sistine Chapel facing the altar. This does not exclude the priest facing the people, in particular during the reading of the word of God. He stressed the need of the notion of mystery, and particulars such as the altar facing East and the fact that the sacrificial sense of the Eucharist must not be lost.

This can only be a good thing, I think. The pity is that there is need for it.

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

I doubt it will make any difference. Any priest who really wants to, can easily find out the correct way to say Mass. If nothing else, they could watch it on EWTN.

Good point! Maybe the thinking/hope/wish/fantasy (take your pick ) is that if the booklet is distributed to all priests, more will realize that there *is*, actually, a correct way and will then be motivated to celebrate the Mass that way. Or, is that just wishful thinking on my part ?

I'm pleased to say that the priests where we attend Mass seem to celebrate it correctly, relatively reverently (depending on the priest), but the over-all effect is that it is, unfortunately, rather bland, especially compared to the DL of St. John Chrysostom celebrated in the Byzantine Catholic churches and in Orthodoxy. Part of the "blandness" comes, I'm afraid, from the architecture (exterior and interior) and decoration (or lack of it) of the church itself. It's like a big, pointed roof barn. Sigh.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 11:48:46 AM by J Michael »

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

I didn't write that as a criticism. You probably think yourself too that the situation IS tragicomic. The priests should know their job without extra manuals. The plain old service books should be enough.

I didn't write that as a criticism. You probably think yourself too that the situation IS tragicomic. The priests should know their job without extra manuals. The plain old service books should be enough.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, you'd think so, wouldn't you? I guess until we actually see the booklet and its contents we won't know just how directive and how detailed it is. The Roman Missal should be enough, along with any instructions on how to use it.

Unfortunately, there are too many priests and bishops who think they can "Do It My Way", as it were. Unless and until these guys are reined in or booted out or retire or die and are replaced by orthodox bishops and priests, the problem will persist. It may, anyway.

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

I wouldn't know. Probably best to a) ask a seminarian, or b) ask a priest, or c) peruse the prospectus of various seminaries if available, or d) any combination of a, b, & c.

Or tell the priest to just go an open an account with CAF and the overeager Liturgical police there will tell them how do to Mass.

Isn't it disappointing that internet zealots know more about celebrating the Mass that priests do?

Hmm....I guess there might be one or two internet zealots like that. I'm guessing that for the most part, however, most of these internet zealots just *think* they know more than the priests. But, as I'm neither, I don't know jack.... .

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

Yeah. it'd also be nice if they added one of the Ectenias from the DL as Prayers of the faithful during the NO. But sadly, I don't think it's going to happen. Anywa, on manuals, I thought they already had the GIRM for that?

Well, I don't know if I'm an Internet zealot, and I don't claim to know more than ALL priests.

However, I do know that it's not correct to start a Mass with the words, "Hi, everyone, thanks so much for joining me for today's Holy Eucharist! Did you know 'Eucharist' means 'giving thanks'?"

I'd heard some priests give really good intros for Mass, but overall I think this part should be removed. Most priests don't know what to do with it. And I don't know why you need to "intro" the Mass anyway.

What'd be even nicer is if they changed the whole thing to the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom! [/quote]

Eh, suit yourself. I'd probably agree- if I wasn't stuck in a heavily Latin Catholic area. I'm one those Byzantines that is just content with what I have, because until anotherm ission moves in, that's all I've got. Which is the local Roman Catholic masses. However, I do say Vespers and Matins at home to compensate for the Latin-ness .

quote author=brastaseptim link=topic=49359.msg868597#msg868597 date=1358886711Eh, suit yourself. I'd probably agree- if I wasn't stuck in a heavily Latin Catholic area. I'm one those Byzantines that is just content with what I have, because until anotherm ission moves in, that's all I've got. Which is the local Roman Catholic masses. However, I do say Vespers and Matins at home to compensate for the Latin-ness .

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?[/quote]

I'd hope- but sadly, most Roman parishioners here wouldn't know what Byzantine Catholicism was if it came dancing out in a Phelonion while singing the Phos Hilaron and strangled them with a small omophor.

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?[/quote]

I'd hope- but sadly, most Roman parishioners here wouldn't know what Byzantine Catholicism was if it came dancing out in a Phelonion while singing the Phos Hilaron and strangled them with a small omophor. [/quote]

LOLOLOL!!!

By the way...welcome to the fray !

« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 05:29:03 PM by J Michael »

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?

I'd hope- but sadly, most Roman parishioners here wouldn't know what Byzantine Catholicism was if it came dancing out in a Phelonion while singing the Phos Hilaron and strangled them with a small omophor. [/quote]

Well, I don't know if I'm an Internet zealot, and I don't claim to know more than ALL priests.

However, I do know that it's not correct to start a Mass with the words, "Hi, everyone, thanks so much for joining me for today's Holy Eucharist! Did you know 'Eucharist' means 'giving thanks'?"

I'd heard some priests give really good intros for Mass, but overall I think this part should be removed. Most priests don't know what to do with it. And I don't know why you need to "intro" the Mass anyway.

I'd just be happy if they'd do the intro *after* they've processed up to the front and the opening hymn has faded, and *after* they've made the sign of the Cross, which is how it's really supposed to be done.

Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

quote author=brastaseptim link=topic=49359.msg868597#msg868597 date=1358886711Eh, suit yourself. I'd probably agree- if I wasn't stuck in a heavily Latin Catholic area. I'm one those Byzantines that is just content with what I have, because until anotherm ission moves in, that's all I've got. Which is the local Roman Catholic masses. However, I do say Vespers and Matins at home to compensate for the Latin-ness .

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?

I am fortunate to have a (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic church not too far away...problem is every time I come back I start complaining about the liturgy at the RC parish my wife likes. Then I am warned not to go back because I am filled with pride going there

Logged

Where even the last two or three are gathered in His name, He is there in their midst.

quote author=brastaseptim link=topic=49359.msg868597#msg868597 date=1358886711Eh, suit yourself. I'd probably agree- if I wasn't stuck in a heavily Latin Catholic area. I'm one those Byzantines that is just content with what I have, because until anotherm ission moves in, that's all I've got. Which is the local Roman Catholic masses. However, I do say Vespers and Matins at home to compensate for the Latin-ness .

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?

I am fortunate to have a (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic church not too far away...problem is every time I come back I start complaining about the liturgy at the RC parish my wife likes. Then I am warned not to go back because I am filled with pride going there

Here's a hint. Stop complaining so much.

Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

I am fortunate to have a (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic church not too far away...problem is every time I come back I start complaining about the liturgy at the RC parish my wife likes. Then I am warned not to go back because I am filled with pride going there

quote author=brastaseptim link=topic=49359.msg868597#msg868597 date=1358886711Eh, suit yourself. I'd probably agree- if I wasn't stuck in a heavily Latin Catholic area. I'm one those Byzantines that is just content with what I have, because until anotherm ission moves in, that's all I've got. Which is the local Roman Catholic masses. However, I do say Vespers and Matins at home to compensate for the Latin-ness .

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?

I am fortunate to have a (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic church not too far away...problem is every time I come back I start complaining about the liturgy at the RC parish my wife likes. Then I am warned not to go back because I am filled with pride going there

Here's a hint. Stop complaining so much.

I agree. I feel that so many RCs are so focused with what's wrong with the Liturgy that they have forgotten about the other aspects of being a Christian. If one feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, cares for the sick, provides for the poor, etc., whatever is lacking in the Liturgy God will provide for. But if you do none of that, then no matter how beautiful the Liturgy one attends to, the soul will always be lacking.

quote author=brastaseptim link=topic=49359.msg868597#msg868597 date=1358886711Eh, suit yourself. I'd probably agree- if I wasn't stuck in a heavily Latin Catholic area. I'm one those Byzantines that is just content with what I have, because until anotherm ission moves in, that's all I've got. Which is the local Roman Catholic masses. However, I do say Vespers and Matins at home to compensate for the Latin-ness .

I'm one of them, too, brother. There are a few Eastern Catholic parishes that are not all that far away, but due to my wife's poor health, they *are* too far away.

The chances of any RC church switching from the N.O. Mass to the DL of St. John are, I would guess, slim to none. Hope springs eternal, though, eh ?

I am fortunate to have a (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic church not too far away...problem is every time I come back I start complaining about the liturgy at the RC parish my wife likes. Then I am warned not to go back because I am filled with pride going there

I'm surprised the gender neutral language doesn't get to you at the Ruthenian church.

I've been to a funeral with the new translation at the RC and it's very nice. Prayers at the foot of the altar while the choir is singing the introit is always a good introduction to mass. Not advocating the return of the 1962 but something needs to be placed in there. It's like, hi, you are at the Roman Catholic Church and currently you are about to hear the 9:30am mass."

I think the point of the booklet is a passive aggressive way of trying to tell priests that are doing corky stuff to knock it off without actually confronting them for doing so.

Perhaps it is a hint that they do want the people to spin the altar back around the correct way. It feels odd having the priest look at the people during services.