Dumbo Drop: Bibles Air-Dropped by Ballons to Starving, Sick North Korean People

Christian Group Seoul USA Air-Drops Bibles Over North Korea With Giant Balloons

A Colorado-based Christian group is air-dropping Bibles on North Korea.

Over the past year, Pastor Eric Foley and his Christian mission group, Seoul USA, have released around 50,000 40-foot homemade, hydrogen-filled balloons outfitted with Bibles and personal testimonials over rural areas of the country, Fox News reports. Bibles are attached to the balloons in a box or a bag.

Yeah because they couldn’t have dropped something useful like food or medical supplies or better yet, donated that money to the poor or hell, even used it to raise awareness. Any of those things would be better than dropping a bronze-age fairy tale written by ignorant, cave-dwelling primitives who thought selling one’s daughters into sex slavery to pay off debt was just A-OK! Brilliant. Exactly what they need.

…or rolling paper. Lord only knows how many spliffs I’ve rolled out of the Holy Book!

Rhoid Rager

lol! The weed is already free in the Kim’s Kountry.

jnana

oh yeah?! I guess I know where i’m going for winter vacation.

Rhoid Rager

Shit yeah. Nothing like Pyongyang in the bleakest days of January-February.

jnana

if you got no food, but only pot, it’s possible to “smoke the munchies away”. you just gotta keep smoking.
I bet north korea would be a really cool place if it wasn’t a psychopathic fascist dystopia and you can get stoned, climb mountains and chill or work w/ yer comrades.

No kidding, if anything, dropping a religious text that says that no matter how bad things are, when you die everything will be ok seems like it would make things worse, not better for the poor. Hell, if the North Koreans were smart, they might introduce xtianity into their political propaganda(I know they wouldn’t because of the tendency for communists to avoid religion, being the opiate of the masses and all, but its still a good tool for control).

Dingbert

Then again, if you no longer fear death, why not speak out and refuse to cooperate with evil? Think liberation theology in S. America, social gospel in the US Civil Rights Movement and progressivism, the R. Catholic Church in Poland’s Solidarity movement, Gandhi’s economists, etc.
Regardless, the DPRK state cult of Juche that explicitly rejects “pie in the sky when you die” hasn’t made life better for anyone, except the Kims. Something–anything–else is worth a shot.

moremisinformation

Boohoo. Someone spent their own money on something they wanted to do and an intolerant ‘liberal’ doesn’t like it – what a shock.

Andrew

And surprisingly a “conservative” has to spit about the “liberal” expressing their criticism.

moremisinformation

I don’t subscribe to your labels. Whereas, at least on this forum, she/he so clearly defines her/himself by one of the “two teams”, it’s obvious.

Good effort on your part though.

Andrew

My labels? Didn’t notice the scare quotes, did you?

Rhoid Rager

His change of account doesn’t seem to be that subtle–Less is more. Less than tolerant is more misinformation.

bobbiethejean

Somebody spent their money on an act that is hypocritical on its face, stupid, inefficient, unJesuslike in so many ways, and entirely insensitive to the Korean people’s views and I pointed this out. Of course YOU would be the hypocrite to tell me that expressing my criticisms is “boo-hooing” because you’re an intolerant git.

So let me get this right…. it is ok to drop bibles on starving, disenfranchised, destitute people in dire straits which simultaneously serves to rub Christianity in the Korean’s faces, which, if that isn’t bad enough, would most likely not have been condoned by Jesus who was VERY outspoken about the nature of such frivolous acts…….. but it’s not ok for me to actually point any of this out because that would make me intolerant.

Yeah, you are just a massive walking example of Dunning-Kruger.

moremisinformation

It’s hypocritical?
How?

“Stupid, inefficient, unJesuslike in so many ways and insensitive to the Korean people’s views and I pointed this out.”

Other than stupid, you didn’t point any of this out. You certainly didn’t mention Jesus, unless he happens to be a character in the Bronze-age fairy tale.

“…YOU would be the hypocrite…”

Your declarative sentences aside, do you know what hypocrite means, it doesn’t seem like it?

“So let me get this straight…”

Other than the physical danger inherent in dropping heavy tomes of out-dated, confusing, abstract, metaphysical parables on unwitting victims who, depending on certain decisions made, may not even be able to read the text, what difference does it make to you? Are the Koreans that you’re feigning worry over, starving less, now?

I’d also be curious to hear about Jesus’ VERY outspoken beliefs against dropping religious texts upon the heads of Communists, from hydrogen filled balloons.

bobbiethejean

All I did was call attention to the inanity of it. A lot of the other aspects SHOULD be immediately self-evident to anyone who isn’t a friggin baked potato. Do you REALLY think Jesus would have been cool with dropping bibles on a bunch of starving, impoverished, and oppressed people? I’m not usually one to make such assumptions but I’m betting he wouldn’t based on things he’s said and done…… ya know like how much more important it is to actually CARE for the poor rather than preaching at them. If Jesus said anything it was that….. in fact he said it a lot and he was very emphatic about it.

Incidentally, nice back pedal. You went from accusing me of boohooing to essentially a agreeing with me. I bet you thought I wouldn’t catch that. Nice try.

moremisinformation

Backpedaling would include me, somewhere, disagreeing with your overall point, which, as you can read, I never did.

If I had said, “Hey, dropping Bibles is a great plan.” Then said, “You know, dropping Bibles is stupid”, afteward, that would be backpedaling So, actually, it’s not backpedaling. Nice try.

It’s your self-righteous rhetoric that bothers me – it’s a tactic that will win you approximately zero converts. Not that I believe you care.

bobbiethejean

It’s not self-righteous, it’s angry. I find this behavior reprehensible, hypocritical, inefficient, and stupid -the very same way I would feel if Hindus started dropping copies of the Bhagavad Gita on America because we’re obviously wrong in our beliefs and ignorant and need to be apprised of Vishnu and Krishna! Or maybe if the Iranians started dropping copies of the Koran on us. I wonder how many Americans would be ok with that.

It is a RETARDED thing to do, not to mention wasteful and extremely patronizing. Here, you starving, oppressed ignoramuses, let me enlighten you with my very special holy text under the premise of helping you…… ya know, instead of actually helping you.

jnana

have you never read the bhagavad gita? its an enlightening book. but I sense you are too close minded to appreciate the intricacies and nuances of spiritual thinking, so you probably see something else when you read it(something you can criticize, probably)

Ted Heistman

The Bhagavad Gita discourages Proselytizing though. Its says it at the end, Krishna exhorts Arjuna not to talk about spiritual things with people who don’t want to listen.

jnana

don’t cast pearls before swine.

jnana

jesus says if you light a candle, you don’t hide it under a basket afterwards. the north Koreans are in dire need of INFORMATION, the Logos, which happens to be expressed, albeit imperfectly, in the Bible. I see you angry with this organization’s efforts in doing what they believe may alleviate the Koreans and awaken them to information they may be unaware of. But what efforts are you making in sending information for alleviating the suffering of the North Koreans? Judge not lest ye shall be judged!

Andrew

What if I judge myself?

jnana

you couldn’t even do that. you aint got enough information, don’t see the whole picture and what little you do see is largely distorted. you can try to judge yourself, but i’d take it lightly and simply accept the fact god’s mercy is enough.

Andrew

Do you claim to suss what my judgement of myself is?

jnana

if yer a human, you are almost definitely imperfect. and therefore have a distorted picture of yerself, others and reality, in general. maybe you’ve had glimpses of the Glory of Absolute Reality, and so have a reference point. From what I’ve gathered from your posts, I would say that’s likely. But I’d also say its likely that conditioning and the deceptions of this world have given you a skewed picture. this isn’t a judgment, but a supposition that I don’t really put too much stock into.

Andrew

That seems fairly accurate, except I’ve never had any glimpse of the alleged “Glory” of “Absolute Reality.”

Dingbert

I agree food, medicine, and money should be included with these balloons (actually, all balloons, for that matter). However, I also don’t see any organizations doing that. That’s unusual and sad.
The US and others risked nuclear war to drop tons of food and supplies into Berlin during the Soviet Blockade. I don’t see why we’re not doing the same large-scale thing with the far more dire Korean situation.

bobbiethejean

Personally, I think we should just stay out of other people’s affairs, generally……. there are exceptions of course. Like if the N. Koreans were having a revolt against their government and asked for our help, I wouldn’t be opposed to helping them out IF they actually asked. But otherwise, I think we should mind our own business. We’ve got problems aplenty here on our own doorstep. And anyway, all we’d accomplish in the long run is to placate our consciences and slap a very, very small band aid on what is actually a REALLY huge laceration.

I’m not going to tell Christians they CAN’T drop bibles on Korean people, however, I see no reason not to point out how hypocritical, inefficient, stupid, patronizing, disrespectful, and ultimately useless that act is. These people need help, not yet ANOTHER thing to worry about.

jnana

see the link I left above to a video made by the Fuller Center, a Christian org that builds houses, (it was created by the couple who created Habitat for Humanity which got too corporate, so they split off.)

Calypso_1

If you look at the organizations FAQ they actually recommend against humanitarian aid to NK as it ‘frees up’ the regime to use vital resources for military endeavors.

jnana

in a way it does, not to mention how much of the food doesn’t make it to those who need it. that’s why i think they should drop food from balloons, maybe it would make it to those who need it most.
I think its great that they’re dropping bibles, but I don’t understand why they don’t send food with it.

Calypso_1

I think it would be great if a counter artillery battery was spooked by the the balloon launch.

jnana

I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened already!

Calypso_1

spooked….as in fire for effect.

jnana

oh, you mean shoot the plane(?) that dropped the balloons? I figured they’ve tried to shoot the balloons already

Calypso_1

The balloons are ground launched.

Rhoid Rager

One reason I chose Japan over South Korea as my Asian Destination…..Seoul is within artillery range of the North. Nuclear tipped artillery is more plausible than any taepodong.

kowalityjesus

Not everyone in North Korea is starving. They have perfectly enough resources to feed themselves, but due to the social/political injustice many are rotting in concentration camps and starving in the street. Did you remember that the bible talks about piety, humility, and charity? Do you think this could help those disenfranchised, rather than ephemeral and politically-polarizing food drops? I think this is an apt way to help a country that has its ducks in a row, but the leadership is in the toilet. Open their eyes to the fundamental tenants of justice….and save souls. (HA I know I just lost all my upvotes).

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

risk mine to give you one. I ain’t no christian, but I still think it’s a good book… more christians should read it, and maybe people who haven’t read it ought to stop writing reviews of it. And I might add that if life is no more than a full belly and not getting killed that day… that just isn’t enough to keep me interested.

Andrew

The authors weren’t equally good. There are great, classic stories, and some utter shit.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

That’s true, but one of the worst things about it is that most people’s knowledge of it comes from the interpretations made by self-appointed “explainers of what god really meant when he said or did… whatever”. For instance, I think the story of Eve eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil makes her a bold heroine for having the nerve to take that knowledge on. It could be interpreted as the step in evolution that made us thinking animals instead of merely instinctive ones. And it makes Adam look like a cowed, obedient wimp (but Eve, baby, we don’t want to piss the big guy off)… a man led forward by a woman. But that isn’t the way patriarchal religious institutions have chosen to interpret it.

Some people use the bible to justify heinous deeds. Some use the US constitution. Some use Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations”. We all have a tendency to use whatever is handy to make ourselves “right”. Some exercise more imagination than others.

bobbiethejean

“I think the story of Eve eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil makes her a bold heroine”

Here’s the problem with that interpretation though….. The bible itself very clearly and pointedly does not agree. Eve was punished thoroughly for her disobedience and her children were made to suffer. God threw them out of Eden and cursed them.

I agree with you about her being a heroine. I would have eaten the hell out of that apple but unfortunately, the bible is very clear about how disobedient women who seek knowledge.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

Do I detect a little “oops” in here. Have another bite.
I reserve the right to make my own analysis, judgement, interpretation and form my own understanding of everything I read. It’s called critical thinking.

bobbiethejean

Yeah, it is called critical thinking indeed. You might try it some time.

You sure damn do have the right to make bullshit up and I have the right to call you on it. If YOU and I want to see Eve as a heroine, that’s fine. We can do that. But the bible itself is VERY clear. Her actions, according to the bible, and you can’t interpret this in any other way because it is VERY !@#$%^&*ing clear- Eve betrayed Adam, disobeyed God, gave into sin, and had a terrible curse put on her that was handed down to her progeny forever. The bible makes it clear: Disobedience = BAD. Thinking for yourself = BAD. Knowledge = BAD. We should have remained ignorant, obedient cattle? How the !@#$%^&* is that a good message!?

Sure, we can interpret her actions as a good thing and we do but the bible is VERY CLEAR. I don’t understand how you can call that a “good book.” To me, it is a pile of illogical, plagiarized, bigotry infested, rubbish written by people who thought a god punishment for rape was a fine and forcing the rapist to marry his victim (yeah I’m aware that back then that was actually probably a pretty sweet deal for her but just that in and of itself is enough to elucidate why the bible should be kicked into irrelevancy today). Anything good you can find in the bible can be found elsewhere and a lot of it is just common fucking empathy that most people already have….. or would if our society wasn’t determined to beat us into becoming sociopaths.

Ted Heistman

so who had the “correct” interpretation?

jnana

Once upon a very long time ago, when the very first Mommy and Daddy starred in the world’s first piece of Reality Programming, an unexpected snafu occurred, the sort that drives producers and program executives nuts. Mommy, whose name was Eve, began to act up. She began to question the so-called reality of her show, which was known by the title: GENESIS: In the Beginning.

Eve sat naked on her haunches beneath the forest canopy, alert as always to the sights and sounds of Eden, while Daddy, who was called Adam, snored bearishly at her side. Adam could not seem to get enough of the good things in the Garden, and spent much of his day in a somnolent state, occasionally muttering, in the peculiar argot of those times, “This is as good as it gets.”

Eve was not so sure. She had seen distorted faces reflected in dewdrops, heard urgent things in the whisper of the giant ferns. Unsettling things. She had sensed the presence of Others. And yet, there were no others, were there? Surely, the watchful eyes of the timid tree creatures could not alone account for her feeling that she walked in the shadow of another reality.

Adam’s belly was filled with the ripe fruit of the Garden; Eve’s belly was filled with Adam’s seed. She touched her swollen breasts, and it was then she heard her own name called from afar. She rose and followed the call to the depths of the forest, where there stood a tree whose alluring red fruit she had been warned in a dream not to eat. Dangling by its tail from a low branch was a creature with the body of a salamander and a face eerily familiar to Eve, a face not unlike her own.

“Who? Are? You?” the serpent mouthed.

“I don’t know,” said Eve, not having thought a lot about it.

“Why play along,” the serpent asked, “when you know the show is rigged? Why remain in prison when the cell door is open?”

“Where is this door?” asked Eve, innocently enough.

The serpent rolled its eyes upward, beyond the leafy canopy to the radiance above. Eve’s gaze followed, and lingered, and when she looked again at the tree, the shiny, red fruit was before her.

“Take. Eat,” said the serpent.

“Then I shall surely die,” said Eve.

“Only on television,” said the serpent. “Only to illusion.”

And Eve ate, and was amazed, and ran back to rouse Adam from his torpor, saying, “Try this! It’s amazing!” Adam, never one to resist a new treat, ate also of the apple, and when he had, turned to Eve and said, “Whoa.” He shook the sleep from his head, thumped his chest and roared, presumably to the show’s seldom seen Producer, ”Why didn’t you tell me it was a setup?” With a mighty groan, he stood, took Eve’s hand and said, “Let’s get dressed and get the hell out of here, honey. This is a sham.”

There were suddenly thunderous footfalls in the Garden, and Adam was sore afraid. When he came in dreams, the show’s Producer had always been a petulant screamer, forever reminding Adam of his contract and the dire consequences of asking too many questions. A nasal voice on a bullhorn honked through Eden, causing the forest creatures to tremble. “I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL IALDABAOTH, AND YOU TWO INGRATES WILL NEVER WORK IN THIS TOWN AGAIN!”

And so began Eve and Adam’s long journey home.

the bible can be interpreted in this manner, and was by quite a large group of people throughout history.

Ted Heistman

Are you familiar with Gnosticism? I have a friend who is a member of a female Gnostic sect.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

I understand the concept, as “knowing directly”, which seems like a good one. With logic and science, we at least seek a sort of consensus based on hard evidence, repeatable experiments, peer assessment and so forth. That method of establishing truth is susceptible to human error but works fairly well in the long run, because the truth gets tested in plain sight.

While I do think knowing directly is also valid, it is prone to even more human error and can’t be proved in the same way. So I adopt the attitude that I can base my own decisions on “knowing”, but I can’t expect anybody else to accept the “truth” I have found that way on my word alone, which is all I have.

I have had some precognitive experiences like that, for example, that worked out well for me (like saving my ass), but I have zero hard evidence that would satisfy the demand for scientific proof. It’s a challenging proposition to give credence to both and weigh them against each other as best one can.

I did hear a lecture on Gnosticism once, where the speaker claimed that the Gnostics understood the old testament god as a sort of intermediary between us and an absolute reality, rather than being the big shot himself. That sounded quite similar to Hindu and Buddhist concepts.

I just try to take it all in and make what sense of it I can.

Ted Heistman

Well I mention Gnosticsms because in those circles, your interpretation of Eve is very commonplace, especially the female sects.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

I didn’t know that.
I haven’t read any of that either.

jnana

GENESIS UNPLUGGED

The Fall of Man as seen from the Gnostic perspective

Once upon a very long time ago, when the very first Mommy and Daddy starred in the world’s first piece of Reality Programming, an unexpected snafu occurred, the sort that drives producers and program executives nuts. Mommy, whose name was Eve, began to act up. She began to question the so-called reality of her show, which was known by the title: GENESIS: In the Beginning.

Eve sat naked on her haunches beneath the forest canopy, alert as always to the sights and sounds of Eden, while Daddy, who was called Adam, snored bearishly at her side. Adam could not seem to get enough of the good things in the Garden, and spent much of his day in a somnolent state, occasionally muttering, in the peculiar argot of those times, “This is as good as it gets.”

Eve was not so sure. She had seen distorted faces reflected in dewdrops, heard urgent things in the whisper of the giant ferns. Unsettling things. She had sensed the presence of Others. And yet, there were no others, were there? Surely, the watchful eyes of the timid tree creatures could not alone account for her feeling that she walked in the shadow of another reality.

Adam’s belly was filled with the ripe fruit of the Garden; Eve’s belly was filled with Adam’s seed. She touched her swollen breasts, and it was then she heard her own name called from afar. She rose and followed the call to the depths of the forest, where there stood a tree whose alluring red fruit she had been warned in a dream not to eat. Dangling by its tail from a low branch was a creature with the body of a salamander and a face eerily familiar to Eve, a face not unlike her own.

“Who? Are? You?” the serpent mouthed.

“I don’t know,” said Eve, not having thought a lot about it.

“Why play along,” the serpent asked, “when you know the show is rigged? Why remain in prison when the cell door is open?”

“Where is this door?” asked Eve, innocently enough.

The serpent rolled its eyes upward, beyond the leafy canopy to the radiance above. Eve’s gaze followed, and lingered, and when she looked again at the tree, the shiny, red fruit was before her.

“Take. Eat,” said the serpent.

“Then I shall surely die,” said Eve.

“Only on television,” said the serpent. “Only to illusion.”

And Eve ate, and was amazed, and ran back to rouse Adam from his torpor, saying, “Try this! It’s amazing!” Adam, never one to resist a new treat, ate also of the apple, and when he had, turned to Eve and said, “Whoa.” He shook the sleep from his head, thumped his chest and roared, presumably to the show’s seldom seen Producer, ”Why didn’t you tell me it was a setup?” With a mighty groan, he stood, took Eve’s hand and said, “Let’s get dressed and get the hell out of here, honey. This is a sham.”

There were suddenly thunderous footfalls in the Garden, and Adam was sore afraid. When he came in dreams, the show’s Producer had always been a petulant screamer, forever reminding Adam of his contract and the dire consequences of asking too many questions. A nasal voice on a bullhorn honked through Eden, causing the forest creatures to tremble. “I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL IALDABAOTH, AND YOU TWO INGRATES WILL NEVER WORK IN THIS TOWN AGAIN!”

Thanks for that. I’ll give it more time later, but a quick scan suggests to me that this same story is told again and again through the centuries – which suggests that the most powerful evidence of the validity of gnosis is that people keep getting the same information through gnosis, no matter how much the language and culture of their times influences their verbalization of it and makes it difficult for readers from other times and places to get the meaning the authors intended.

I’m totally in favor of people continuing to do that in our own times… as you did with your contemporized story. And I especially appreciate the humor… if we can’t laugh at the predicament we’re in, we’ll probably be crying or raging instead.

Ted Heistman

Have you read any of the Gnostic gospels? Like the gospel of Thomas, gospel of Mary Magdelene, etc?

jnana

female as in only women allowed or do they revere the Feminine?

Ted Heistman

sort of both

jnana

huh? usually gnostics are quite inclusive. do you know the name of the sect?

interesting group… never heard of them, but i’m not too keen on the gnostic revivalists. not sure about this group, but back in the late 1800s some Frenchmen “channeled” cathar bishops and recreated the gnostic church. seems kinda phony to me. i’m not sure the ancient gnostics were the feminists many neo-gnostics seem to think they are. at least, not the kinda feminists we’re used to. one difference is the ancient gnostics’ philosophy is essentially world and body hating.

Ted Heistman

I think its legit. Its pretty old. Check out the reading list

bobbiethejean

Oh so you like stories about selling little girls into sex slavery to pay off debt, stoning gays to death, murdering atheists, he begat her begat him begat them begat they begat those begat her begat him begat it begat begat begat for pages and pages, mythology parading as truth that is patently absurd on its face, a lot of stories about how disobedient, wise, or skeptical people should be punished and so on. There might be a few nice things here and there but mostly, it’s a shit ton of absolute horror masquerading as a guide to life.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

If that is how you interpret me, then it must be so. Who the fuck am I to say what I mean when you can clearly say it better.

Ted Heistman

I call it “reverse literalism” Fundamentalism’s atheist twin.

bobbiethejean

And I quote: “but I still think it’s a good book.” You know what’s a “good book”? Not one that condones child sex slavery.

jnana

you should also realize the Bible has layers of information. Meaning some stories may be literal and some or the same may have multiple layers of meaning, metaphors within metaphors, symbols and what-not. You can read it one day and receive a revelation and the next day find deeper meanings. Its almost inexhaustible, yet extremely simple.

you also need to realize the Bible is the finger pointing at the moon, not the moon itself

Ted Heistman

Its actually ancient literature which is interwoven into the fabric of Western Culture. Literalism is only a hundred years old or so. Fundamentalism is a reaction to German Higher criticism coming out of German seminaries in the late nineteenth early 20th century.

jnana

its because its written by many different authors with differing points of view. its not as set in stone as made to appear. I believe in much of it, am inspired by much of it and I feel free to discard parts I disagree with, interpret it the way I believe, and read other scriptures that the “CHURCH” “bans”. I wasn’t able to do that until I opened myself up to the possibilities of its Truth and Wisdom. That is, opened my mind, instead of being such a cynical know-it-all.

bobbiethejean

Not everyone in North Korea is starving

I never said everyone in NK is starving. The elites are doing just fine. However, the economic situation for everyone else ranges from surviving to dire to near African grade starvation.

Did you remember that the bible talks about piety, humility, and charity?

It also talks about SELLING YOUR DAUGHTER INTO SEX SLAVERY TO PAY OFF DEBT. Not to mention murdering atheists by the millions, dashing babies on rocks, stoning gays, punishing disobedient women, mauling children to death, and burning in hell, among other ridiculous things. And don’t you DARE accuse me of taking those things out of context because there is NO !@#$%^&*ING CONTEXT you can put those things in to make them ok.

Do you think this could help those disenfranchised

A book is not going to help someone who needs sustenance and shelter. As much as I love reading and knowledge, it is a luxury. There’s a reason it’s not the base of Maslow’s hierarchy. If you were hungry, unemployed, disenfranchised, oppressed, and had a shitton of stress in your life, how do you think you would feel if someone completely disrespected your beliefs and threw a copy of the Bhagavad Gita at you? I’m betting you wouldn’t like that too much.

I can’t speak to the N Koreans but personally, if I was starving and oppressed I would be infuriated if someone tried to placate me with a book full of patently ignorant bullshit.

kowalityjesus

I love it when people skim off a few ungainly stories from the bible (a collection of books 6 times longer than ‘The Odyssey’), spin it with their own “modern” brand of ethics, and vomit bile on whoever espouses its views. It is so distinctly “internet.”

Maybe ANYTHING that replaces a Totalitarian Cult of Personality is better, but you won’t even grant that. I know you don’t really want to make as absolute a position as you have been cowed into (by yourself and others); I don’t hesitate to admit when a position is too reactionary, imo there is way too much of that shit around here!

bobbiethejean

A few ungainly stories….. A few ungainly stories!? AHAHAH. WOW that is THE WORST apologist fail I have ever seen. There are HUNDREDS of HIDEOUS stories in the bible and most of the good stuff was plagiarized from elsewhere anyway. People who think the bible is a good book obviously haven’t read it. The first half is most shitty old laws that don’t make sense in this era WHICH if you didn’t know, Jesus DID say to uphold, a metric fuckton of begatting, and a lot of bigotry, violence against women, atheist-killing, and stories in which a lot of disobedient freethinking “villains” end up getting punished.

God: Hey Abraham, go kill your child…… PSYCHE! Hah, JK. Hey you, loyal brainwashees, go rip the fetuses from those atheists’ wombs and dash them upon the rocks before their eyes. That would be awesome. Oh and when you’re done, go sack that city over there. Kill every man, child, oxen and girls too old or too young to fuck. The fuckable ones, those you can take as sex slaves. Oh and you can totally sell your underage daughter’s ass to some pervert to pay off a debt if you need to. That’s tots cool.

God: Yeah well, sucks to be you. At least you’re not Pharaoh. I “hardened” his heart, violated his free will, and played with him like a puppet. Then I watched all the idiots I set free wander around a three foot patch of desert for 40 years because apparently they are that fucking stupid. Oh! OH! Look! More atheists! Go kill them and fuck their bitches. Oh uh, uppity woman alert. She’s a slut. Totally stone her to death.

Jesus. Dad! That’s not nice!

God: Heh. You wanna see not nice? Wait till you see what I’ve got planned for YOU down the line, buddy.

……Jees. I could go on doing this all day long but I’ve actually got to go. Moral of the story, your god is a dickhead and the bible is full of shit. If you think it’s a good book or a good idea to be dropping it on starving, impoverished, oppressed people, you might just be a sociopath.

kowalityjesus

I appreciate your effort, but anybody who has read the bible knows that most of the stuff you are talking about is out of context literally, temporally, and ideologically. Show me a text from over 3000 years ago that doesn’t have some kind of grizzly or unpleasant anecdotes. That’s right, you can’t.

Go read Sirach, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and the Gospels and get back to me with all of the totally unjust bullshit about feeding the needy and respecting social order for the good of everyone, and self-sacrifice for your family and neighbors. Then tell me how the North Koreans should never have this evil ideology shoved down their throats with despicable literature drops. Go jump in a lake.

bobbiethejean

There is no context you can put “selling your daughter into sex slavery” in to make it ok. It is fucking evil plain and simple.

There is no context you can put “murdering people for no other reason than they don’t believe in the lol, one true god” in to make it ok. It is fucking evil plain and simple.

There is no context you can put “stoning a woman to death because she’s a “slut”” in to make it ok. It is fucking evil plain and simple.

You brainwashees bandy around the “out of context” argument like it actually means something but it doesn’t because THERE IS NO CONTEXT that makes these things ok. You CANNOT call a “guide to life” good if it chock full of shit like that and it IS chock full.

Personally, I don’t need a bronze age fairytale to tell me what to think or believe and if you do, that’s just sad.

kowalityjesus

Nope. Go read the bible, and stop being such a thespian.

bobbiethejean

I have read the bible, front to back. You on the other hand just keep plugging your ears and refusing to think for yourself so anyone passing by can see what a shining example of brainwashing you are.

Incidentally, possessing a bible is purportedly an executable offense in NK. Great idea, huh? A lot of the people who picked up those bibles could end up being punished. Typical Christians, doing things without thinking first….. although I guess that’s expecting them to think before doing things is just expecting too much of people who believe there’s a magical man in the sky.

kowalityjesus

Yeah I wonder why its an executable offense. Maybe because it replaces a head of state with a God who’s ACTUALLY omnipotent. Its an old “communist” ploy.

You may have “read” the bible, i.e. moved your eyes across the text (apparently picking out the juicy stories that you can use in an ascerbic manner), I have the living text in me. I only have read maybe 10%, but I actually listened and tried to reconcile my sins with its teachings and make some of the metaphorically difficult text into a living relationship with God. Who are YOU to say this is a bad thing to try to get North Koreans to do as well? Christianity has had great effects in South Korea. I think many southeast-Asian philosophies are not far from ‘Christian values’, and a relationship with Christ will do great things for those peoples.

Andrew

Downvote for “…I have the living text in me. I only have read maybe 10%…”

kowalityjesus

I have read the Pentateuch, most Proverbs, Psalms, Sirach, the story of Judith and the entire New Testament. I have it living inside me as in I have read it, think/meditate about it, I quote it, I advise people, and continue to read it.

Andrew, go fuck yourself. Sorry if I try to be realistic with my estimations instead of inflating them for jack-off rhetorical purposes.

Calypso_1

Was the “go fuck yourself” the ‘living word’ coming out of you?

kowalityjesus

go fuck yourself better to say nothing than to say that. why should I throw away relationships when I can bring them to Gods glory?

Calypso_1

I knew you by your fruits.

Calypso_1

I see you have added to your initial succinctness of sentiment.

By ‘glory’ do you mean a nice knock-down argument?

kowalityjesus

I can always count on you chaps to jump in and circle jerk each other’s vitriol.

Calypso_1

Impenetrability!

Jin The Ninja

Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

Proverbs 10:12

kowalityjesus

Sorry, buddy. I’m trying everything I can to not be cowed by your hatred again.

Calypso_1

If you feel cowed, perhaps you should try Mu.

Jin The Ninja

in this instance, hatred was surely not my ‘sin.’ rather i was proclaiming the word of god- which speaks opposed to your demeanor, tone and behaviour.

if anything, you should be cowed by that which is canonically biblical.

Andrew

Hatred isn’t always bad, and love isn’t always good.

Jin The Ninja

the subversion of love is not ‘love.’ just as hatred of injustice is righteous.

Andrew

I’m not convinced that love should never be subverted or injustice always hated.

Jin The Ninja

i am not convinced that real love is properly defined in our cultural lexicon. the empty platitudes of our pop cultural mythos regarding love are subversive, love itself is a relative constant. a principled stand, even in word, against injustice is warranted, anything else is gross apathy.

Calypso_1

That of which you speak will subvert itself every instant it strays from the beloved.

Jin The Ninja

agreed.

Andrew

What if I am actively in favor of some injustice?

Jin The Ninja

…the guillotine…

Andrew

Perhaps I deserve it.

Jin The Ninja

one injustice should not beget another. unless of course you are either a politician or a banker…:P

Jin The Ninja

“The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.”
luke 6:45

your ‘gems’ are priceless.

Andrew

Are you trying to bring me to God’s glory?

Jin The Ninja

“I have it living inside me as in I have read it, think/meditate about it, I quote it, I advise people, and continue to read it.”

so i must then ask is,”Andrew, go fuck yourself…” your interpretation of ephesians 4:29, or a direct quote from the ‘living text inside you,’ generously translated of course?

Andrew

Done and done.

kowalityjesus

wtf is that supposed to mean? I left at that moment to see “Parsifal” by Richard Wagner at the Lyric in Chicago. I don’t think I would be going too far out of reality to call that 5-hour opera a massive atonement with Christ and Western religiosity by one of the absolute greatest artists in history. It, fortunately, helped me put into perspective the silly pitter-patter that we carry on here.

Jin The Ninja

out of curiosity, was “go fuck yourself” the witty rhetort klingsor used against parsival after his castle was destroyed?

Calypso_1

I think it was “Go Fucketh Kundry”

kowalityjesus

I am so impressed by your ability to google.

Jin The Ninja

and i by yours.

jnana

now, if someone said that about Buddhist scripture would you also downvote?

Andrew

I hope I would.

jnana

Buddhist scripture is quite extensive. and what is more important- to read all of it to argue with others better, or read as much as needed to be inspired by it to practice?

Andrew

To read all of it to argue with others better.

Calypso_1

I think you should go that way ←↗↙↑@ ↓↘↖→

jnana

as the great minds of science say, “its all irrelevant anyway”

Jin The Ninja

buddhism has a long and very pronounced history of rigorous intellectual debate since its foundation. to not know the source material is to not participate in any ensuing discussions.

debate on textual meanings within christianity, seems to have caused numerous schisms, reformations, persecutions, genocides and various colonisations. but at least those thinkers could cite and interpret text; however wrongly.

you cannot proclaim a belief in a text, and not then know your source material. that is what we call a ‘hypocrite.’

Calypso_1

The buddhist ‘scriptures’ don’t come neatly packaged in a single holy book that is considered the inviolable word of god by a significant & vocal % of adherents.

jnana

but i’m pretty sure jesus makes it clear that he himself is the Living Word and we are, too, when we are possessed by his Spirit. He also makes it clear many are called and few are chosen, many will be led by false prophets in his names, etc so its not surprising a significant and vocal % of adherents miss the moon for the finger.
Buddha would probably agree with jesus but call it dharma instead of spirit. many Buddhists seem to misinterpret or be too attached to the world to abide by the dharma, but I would agree that his followers seem to “get it” more than most of Jesus’ followers

Calypso_1

Please stop.

bobbiethejean

Lol. “Omnipotent god.” Yeah, there are so many things in the bible your god does that an omnipotent god simply wouldn’t do unless he was a tremendous douchebag. I’m not even trying to be insulting, that’s just a fact. Your god is a gigantic dick and I know that because it says so right in the bible.

Scott

Lol So, are you defending just the 10% you have read and agree with or are you defending the 90% you are ignorant about also?

Andrew

You say that like evil is a bad thing.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

How to stay jacked up on anger until adrenal failure…
make straw man, beat the bastard to death, but he will never die, because he is your own invention.

On the other hand, there is that bit about persisting in your folly, it has certainly worked for me.

Scott

Because it also comes with all the rest of the made up events, the nasty stuff you seem to be unaware is included or can find a way to dismiss as not reflecting very poorly on your God who acts more like a child throwing a tantrum at times.

Scott

So how do you justify the condoning of slavery, rape, and genocide by God in the Bible?
Sure, it also has parts which show Him in a better light. Do you judge someone accused of murder by their whole life or by the parts which relate to the specific crime/s? This is even more the case when the God described judges on trivial ‘offenses’ and sentences eternal torture. Just playing by His rules – but applying them in His direction.

jnana

yer right, it can very well save souls. imagine if you were starving, oppressed and had very limited free thought. to see something like the Bible, which is banned, might open your eyes. also knowing that others in the outside world care and just think about you, combined with all that’s in the bible about mercy and compassion… let’s hope that serves to liberate many souls and minds from fear and other oppressions

Guest

One of the main problems with the bible is that it just isn’t really very good. A fully grown adult (albeit a hungry one) with formed opinions and a more or less developed reasoning faculty, who has never encountered the bible isn’t just going to go – Wow this book is awesome! I think the best you could hope for would be a few good fables and then probably dispose of it in the ways already mentioned. I don’t know what the deal is in Best Korea but I don’t think the Asian Stazi will look too kindly on you being in possession of a copy.

http://pneumerology.com/ pneumerology

That’s an excellent point. People might look at American history one day and see mainly a bunch of psychos who practice human sacrifice and are basically in love with death and hatred.

echar

I’d like to see Bill Hicks capture the Gideons who air dropped these bibles.

Ted Heistman

South Korea is wicked Christian. I really doubt North Korea is not heavily evangelized already.

Gordon Klock

Did they write their ‘personal testimonials’ in Korean? (kinda pointless to testify in a language that is not understood) Come to think of it, are these Bibles in Korean?(like some kind of DA-DA art performance level of absurdity if they aren’t)

jnana

this lets the north Koreans know there are people who care for them and gives them the hope expressed in the bible. if I was in a detention camp, I know I would like to read the Book of Psalms.

and to those who say why not drop food, you might not know but Christians are helping to feed and house North Koreans. In my experience, Christians have been very loving and caring to me and others I’ve been with while homeless, much more so than I can say for atheists and agnostics who are largely selfish. (generally speaking… I have met some altruistic atheists)

So the Christians are fools for dropping Bibles in spite of the fact that secular nations have done nothing for North Koreans? Would a token air-drop of food that the communist government would inevitably seize/kill citizens for eating have been a better choice?
Should a nation-say, the USA- invade North Korea to implement regime change, then they would be war mongering imperialists. And should another nation- say, China- use diplomacy to bring an end to North Korea’s famine, then the same depraved communist officials remain in control of the country and North Koreans remain well-fed prisoners in a police state.
At least there’s the possibility the Bibles can foster a sense of resistance. Churches provided East Germans a forum to voice their displeasure with the government and greatly contributed the the eventual overthrow of the communist government there.