jake_lex:I dunno, I think this whole "A lot of powerful people are psychopaths!" thing is just being taken too far, and really cheapens and distorts the true meaning of what a psychopath is. Hint: it's not merely being an asshole.

Agreed. I feel like I've seen a lot of articles lately about psychopaths and how they "aren't all serial killers" - well, the main problem I think is that a lot of executives/politicians/etc aren't psychopaths, they feel remorse and stuff, they just don't give a shiat.

No, but I heard that a crunchy "bio-field healing" hippy can't differentiate between the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" while plugging a book on her sucky blog.

Okay...in fairness there's no hard difference in terms and they're often used interchangably and it's often noted they're used interchangably. The main difference is usually that a psychopath is organized, intelligent, etc. and a sociopath isn't organized, isn't intelligent, etc. But even that distinction seems fuzzy the way it's used.

Lady Indica:Okay...in fairness there's no hard difference in terms and they're often used interchangably and it's often noted they're used interchangably. The main difference is usually that a psychopath is organized, intelligent, etc. and a sociopath isn't organized, isn't intelligent, etc. But even that distinction seems fuzzy the way it's used.

1) Ignorant of science in the 21st century and incapable of or unqualified in formulating a rational opinion2) Entirely aware of the scam she is running. A purposeful and premeditated fraud taking advantage of her fellow human beings and is therefore a PSYCHOPATH.

from her website:

"Madalyn Suozzo is a Meta-Physician and Meta-Scientist shaman who has studied with energy masters who bypassed conventional methods by talking directly to the cells themselves. She is a Regenesis® practitioner, teacher, and Minister and has spent the last 30 years researching how the body regenerates with a background that includes stem cell research, immune boosting, and intuitive counsel:

1)Activator of the reserved abilities of regeneration in the human body

2) Purveyor of profound self-dis-covering and evolution of human consciousness

xerge:You fail to understand this. It is only about themselves. They do not care about anyone or anything. The company or country are only a means to an end. They will happily destroy them if if benefits them in some way. That is why they are a danger in power...

Yeah but the difference is whether or not they feel remorse...I'm willing to bet that plenty of people do all of this stuff and feel remorse, but ignore it.

I'm sure there is a very small percentage of people who genuinely don't feel remorse and are true psychopaths, but human nature is pretty ugly and it seems like we try to slap the psychopath label on people because we can't acknowledge that a lot of people are just selfish assholes. We have to tell ourselves that they're a psychopath who doesn't feel remorse because it's scary to think otherwise.

Coming on a Bicycle:The point of this article seems to be: why can't everybody be a completely gullible, social, feelings-communicating group-hugger? And my answer to that is: well, because we can't all be the same. The outliers will always be called something. And they might even have qualities that come in handy in some places in society.

We should put people in positions of power to care for our society (or company for that matter) and protect it above and beyond themselves if needed. Putting a psychopath in charge means we have failed and handed the reigns to a lunatic. GW probably wasn't a psychopath but, like Ronny Raygun, he was a puppet for psychopaths. The damage caused by just those two to the US will be felt for decades to come. If we do that again, it could easily be the end of the US as a super power.

1) Ignorant of science in the 21st century and incapable of or unqualified in formulating a rational opinion2) Entirely aware of the scam she is running. A purposeful and premeditated fraud taking advantage of her fellow human beings and is therefore a PSYCHOPATH.

from her website:

"Madalyn Suozzo is a Meta-Physician and Meta-Scientist shaman who has studied with energy masters who bypassed conventional methods by talking directly to the cells themselves. She is a Regenesis® practitioner, teacher, and Minister and has spent the last 30 years researching how the body regenerates with a background that includes stem cell research, immune boosting, and intuitive counsel:

1)Activator of the reserved abilities of regeneration in the human body

2) Purveyor of profound self-dis-covering and evolution of human consciousness

1) Ignorant of science in the 21st century and incapable of or unqualified in formulating a rational opinion2) Entirely aware of the scam she is running. A purposeful and premeditated fraud taking advantage of her fellow human beings and is therefore a PSYCHOPATH.

from her website:

"Madalyn Suozzo is a Meta-Physician and Meta-Scientist shaman who has studied with energy masters who bypassed conventional methods by talking directly to the cells themselves. She is a Regenesis® practitioner, teacher, and Minister and has spent the last 30 years researching how the body regenerates with a background that includes stem cell research, immune boosting, and intuitive counsel:

1)Activator of the reserved abilities of regeneration in the human body

2) Purveyor of profound self-dis-covering and evolution of human consciousness

No, many of these people ACTUALLY believe what they are doing is helping people. They are so ignorant or delusional about the ideas behind scientific theory and practice, and so ingrained with magical thought that they actually believe in what they do.

They REALLY believe they have the power to influence human cells to do their bidding. That the spirits and chi or whatever you want to call it really bend to their will.

They honestly believe that they have been given "special powers".

That's the frightening and terrifying thing about quacks like this is that there are, littered among the con-men and snake oil salesmen, the true believers. This woman sounds like a true believer. And I'm willing to bet she has more than one body at her feet thanks to her selling of woo and nonsense to people who are desperate for some panacea for their intractable ills.

There are a lot of people in power who do not put happiness at the pinnacle of their value system. That is a fact. But does that make them psychopaths? I'm forced to say no; not by itself. The world has seen what happens when true psychopaths take power, of course, but that has proven to be far less common than people like to accuse.

No, but I heard that a crunchy "bio-field healing" hippy can't differentiate between the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" while plugging a book on her sucky blog.

Wow, way to miss the point! Bicycle mentioned "different feelings and values" as though he's got some personal experience. People who get into Fark arguments early on a Sunday morning are typically not those who run the world. I was just asking for clarification of his viewpoint.

Besides, just looking at the dictionary definitions - I am not a psychologist - it seems that sociopaths are a subset of psychopaths. I'm sure you know much more about such things, though...

Klippoklondike:jake_lex: I dunno, I think this whole "A lot of powerful people are psychopaths!" thing is just being taken too far, and really cheapens and distorts the true meaning of what a psychopath is. Hint: it's not merely being an asshole.

The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson is a good read that covers it a bit, and he stresses that you can't go around accusing everyone of being a psychopath just because you see one or two traits of it in them.

Z-clipped:If you have enough wealth to live like a king for the next 200 years and you still feel the driving need to continue to accumulate more, you might not be a psychopath, but there's definitely something wrong with you.

"Madalyn Suozzo is a Natural Healing Coach and Vibrational Medicine teacher. Her 25 year background includes stem cell research, immune boosting through peak nutrition and attitude, and a comprehensive study of the human bio-field."

Oh do get farked.

That's the name of my new Courtney Love cover band.

A vibrational medicine tacher. FFS now I have to go the James Randi site for the antidote to this mega woo.

1) Ignorant of science in the 21st century and incapable of or unqualified in formulating a rational opinion2) Entirely aware of the scam she is running. A purposeful and premeditated fraud taking advantage of her fellow human beings and is therefore a PSYCHOPATH.

from her website:

"Madalyn Suozzo is a Meta-Physician and Meta-Scientist shaman who has studied with energy masters who bypassed conventional methods by talking directly to the cells themselves. She is a Regenesis® practitioner, teacher, and Minister and has spent the last 30 years researching how the body regenerates with a background that includes stem cell research, immune boosting, and intuitive counsel:

1)Activator of the reserved abilities of regeneration in the human body

2) Purveyor of profound self-dis-covering and evolution of human consciousness

I might be wrong (clearly no expert on the DSM-IV), but I thought the difference was:Psychopath: Doesn't know right from wrong, or does something wrong in the belief that he's right (like Son of Sam's dog told him to do it).Sociopath: Knows the difference between right and wrong, but simply doesn't care.

True fact: people whose second toes are longer than their big toes are werewolves. Once you've decided that a bogey-man exists, it's just a matter of choosing your standard of proof.

"Psychopathy/sociopathy" has joined Nazi, racist, sexist, rapist, pedophile, etc., on the list of ad hominems that shut down healthy debate by diverting discussion from the topic to the character of one's opponent. I tend to Godwin anyone who throws out one of those accusations. It's a shame because discussion of psychopathic behavior and its effects on society is an important issue. Misusing the term diminishes support for doing something about it.

Great insights, indeed. Mainly into the "psychopathy" of mental health professionals. Delusions of grandeur: "I can see someone's thoughts; he can't fool me." Lack of empathy = professional detachment. And so on.

BarkingUnicorn:Great insights, indeed. Mainly into the "psychopathy" of mental health professionals. Delusions of grandeur: "I can see someone's thoughts; he can't fool me." Lack of empathy = professional detachment. And so on.

valkore:jake_lex: I dunno, I think this whole "A lot of powerful people are psychopaths!" thing is just being taken too far, and really cheapens and distorts the true meaning of what a psychopath is. Hint: it's not merely being an asshole.

Came here to say this. It sounds like the author is describing a sociopath rather than a psychopath.

valkore:Coming on a Bicycle: They're just different feelings and values.

Yeah, a sociopath's values are based almost entirely on how much benefit the sociopath will receive through manipulating and lying to others around him/her.

Everyone's values are based entirely on how much benefit they can bring to the one who holds them. Manipulation and deceit are tactics, not policies. Altruism and honesty are other tactics that can be used "to feel better," the guiding policy of every sentient being.

Society and socialists tend to disapprove of tactics which do not benefit them. Isn't that surprising?

I had a good friend who turned out to be this way. I took a job working for him several years ago. Over a period of time I discovered a very creepy way he interacted with others. It went something like this: Inspire them. Failing that, charm them. Failing that, flatter them. Failing that, intimidate them. Failing that, ignore them, and activately seek to marginalize and delegitimize them. It was uncanny.

You're describing the tactics of every effective social movement. Pro-choicers do it; marriage equalizers do it; single-payer health care champions do it; living wage fans do it; freedom-from-religion types do it. All of their opponents do it.

You might as well say there's something wrong with breathing because people you don't like do it.

Cappalotti:valkore: jake_lex: I dunno, I think this whole "A lot of powerful people are psychopaths!" thing is just being taken too far, and really cheapens and distorts the true meaning of what a psychopath is. Hint: it's not merely being an asshole.

Came here to say this. It sounds like the author is describing a sociopath rather than a psychopath.

What I got from that article is that a sociopath tries to hide his behavior/condition from others while a psychopath is more in your face about it.Otherwise, the list of traits for each seem nearly identical.

Both conceal their "conditions." As near as I can figure from that shiatty article, psychopaths are motivated to conceal by fear of disapproval while sociopaths are motivated by the utility of concealment. The distinction seems insignificant.

BarkingUnicorn:valkore: Coming on a Bicycle: They're just different feelings and values.

Yeah, a sociopath's values are based almost entirely on how much benefit the sociopath will receive through manipulating and lying to others around him/her.

Everyone's values are based entirely on how much benefit they can bring to the one who holds them. Manipulation and deceit are tactics, not policies. Altruism and honesty are other tactics that can be used "to feel better," the guiding policy of every sentient being.

Society and socialists tend to disapprove of tactics which do not benefit them. Isn't that surprising?

I had a good friend who turned out to be this way. I took a job working for him several years ago. Over a period of time I discovered a very creepy way he interacted with others. It went something like this: Inspire them. Failing that, charm them. Failing that, flatter them. Failing that, intimidate them. Failing that, ignore them, and activately seek to marginalize and delegitimize them. It was uncanny.

You're describing the tactics of every effective social movement. Pro-choicers do it; marriage equalizers do it; single-payer health care champions do it; living wage fans do it; freedom-from-religion types do it. All of their opponents do it.

You might as well say there's something wrong with breathing because people you don't like do it.

Machines are gonna fail and the system's gonna fail...then, survival. Who has the ability to survive? That's the game - survive.

I knew I could count on the psychopaths and sociopaths here on fark to defend the psychopaths and sociopaths hiding in our power structures. This article was golden, the book is a MUST READ for any younger american who actually gives a flying fark about righting this ship. I've got 50-70 years ahead of me, and this current state of affairs blows.

The cronyism, fascism, favoritism, backdoor lobby deals, it's all pyschopathic bullshiat. Vote out your incumbents, every chance you get. Eventually, their self-protectionist drive will force them to play nice to keep their jobs. It'll still be fake, but it's better than this deregulated freak show we're enduring now.

Klippoklondike:jake_lex: I dunno, I think this whole "A lot of powerful people are psychopaths!" thing is just being taken too far, and really cheapens and distorts the true meaning of what a psychopath is. Hint: it's not merely being an asshole.

The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson is a good read that covers it a bit, and he stresses that you can't go around accusing everyone of being a psychopath just because you see one or two traits of it in them.

Gyrfalcon:But just because someone is glib, superficial, manipulative or needs increasing levels of adrenaline in his or her life doesn't mean he or she is a psychopath. Only if he or she is ALL of these. And maybe even not then.

Another key criterion, ignored by the general public, is that all of the traits must manifest early (before age 15 is the formal line) and continuously. One shrink argued that Jodi Arias doesn't fit that criterion, so she's not a psychopath. She's someone who used tactics that psychopaths chronically use when she thought the tactics would benefit her.

The psycho/sociopath's range of tactics is limited by his disorder. This actually makes it easier to trust him. Trust is the belief that you can predict another's behavior with an acceptable degree of confidence. A restricted range of behaviors makes accurate prediction more likely. Heads or tails vs. which card will be pulled from a deck.

The danger of misdiagnosis is that the person you've misdiagnosed has more tricks up his sleeve than you think he has. While you rely on defenses against psycho/sociopathic behavior, he may surprise you with another tactic.

"It ain't what we don't know that causes us trouble, it's what we think we know that ain't so." Twain..

WTF! So they can keep him for thinking him a psychopath? Without charges? Is it illegal to be one? What the heck? He served over the original jail term for his crime. They admitted they knew his insanity plea was bogus.

No, many of these people ACTUALLY believe what they are doing is helping people. They are so ignorant or delusional about the ideas behind scientific theory and practice, and so ingrained with magical thought that they actually believe in what they do.

They REALLY believe they have the power to influence human cells to do their bidding. That the spirits and chi or whatever you want to call it really bend to their will.

They honestly believe that they have been given "special powers".

That's the frightening and terrifying thing about quacks like this is that there are, littered among the con-men and snake oil salesmen, the true believers. This woman sounds like a true believer. And I'm willing to bet she has more than one body at her feet thanks to her selling of woo and nonsense to people who are desperate for some panacea for their intractable ills.

That's a lot of magical thinking right there. Just conjuring up dead bodies by the power of your mind alone.

BarkingUnicorn:Everyone's values are based entirely on how much benefit they can bring to the one who holds them. Manipulation and deceit are tactics, not policies. Altruism and honesty are other tactics that can be used "to feel better," the guiding policy of every sentient being.

Is it really the guiding policy of every sentient being, I wonder? If (for the sake of argument) someone were to be well and truly driven by some other core value, how might that person behave differently from the way we see "people" as behaving today?

In terms of their impact on others, there is little difference between a psychopath and sociopath. It's mainly a semantic difference rooted in differing psychological theories of behavior. Those who believe behavior is rooted in the genes (nature) call them psychopaths. Those who believe our behavior is rooted in our environments (nurture) call them sociopaths.

Some believe a sociopath may behave exactly like a psychopath to most, but may have a set of ethics (albeit warped) among certain people, such as close friends or family. Even so, in the right circumstances these alliances are easily broken.

It's generally agreed a psychopath has no lasting alliances with anyone which don't directly benefit the psychopath at the expense of the other person(s).

In terms of nature/nurture, a psychopath who was brought up in a broken household, or in a neighborhood infested with crime is more likely to become a violent criminal. A psychopath who is born into wealth and a supportive environment will tend to go the Ken Lay path. But the mental health community is slowly and soberly reaching the conclusion that there are few roles in society where these individuals are actually positive contributors. You might think soldier or bomb defuser, but because these types are so impulsive and could care less if someone else lives or dies, their performance is unreliable.

It's also important to note that psychopaths and sociopaths fall upon a spectrum. Just like no one is a pure saint, there aren't many pure psychopaths out there.

Agreed. I feel like I've seen a lot of articles lately about psychopaths and how they "aren't all serial killers" - well, the main problem I think is that a lot of executives/politicians/etc aren't psychopaths, they feel remorse and stuff, they just don't give a shiat.

Sir Cumference the Flatulent:I might be wrong (clearly no expert on the DSM-IV), but I thought the difference was:Psychopath: Doesn't know right from wrong, or does something wrong in the belief that he's right (like Son of Sam's dog told him to do it).Sociopath: Knows the difference between right and wrong, but simply doesn't care.

Your definition of a psychopath is more in line with a psychotic person. 'Psychotic' and 'Psychopath' are often used interchangeably, which is erroneous. Similar to how people frequently believe a schizophrenic sufferer has multiple-personality disorder ('schizo' means 'to split'). For schizophrenics, 'the split' being referred to is not with another personality, but from reality.

Generally speaking, a psychotic person has lost their grasp on reality and possibly has also lost the ability to determine right from wrong (possibly as a result of delusions and hallucinations). This is the "insanity" defense.

Both a psychopath and sociopath know the difference between right and wrong, but don't care (have no capacity for empathy). Really, the debate over the differences of these two terms as they relate to how either behave in society is superfluous. For all practical purposes, they can be considered one and the same.

WTF! So they can keep him for thinking him a psychopath? Without charges? Is it illegal to be one? What the heck? He served over the original jail term for his crime. They admitted they knew his insanity plea was bogus.

The British system of handling mental health is very different than the US system. Over there it is not that hard to section someone(as you can see they are free to hold someone indefinitely under the suspicion of being a psychopath, there are even cases of women losing full custody of their children under the suspicion of having a personality disorder) while it is nearly impossible to have someone committed in the US (why people with years of documented but poorly treated psychiatric problems are free to shoot up movie theaters and schools). Personally, I think both systems go a little to far in either direction and an approach somewhere in the middle is what is needed.

/sorry for that one really long sentence//my high school English teacher would be disapointed, but I do love long sentences