Eww, get a room. No getting your Lover's Comfort buff in this thread plz x__x

Lieutenant Commander of the Lesbian Love Brigade
There can only be one, like in that foreign movie where there could only be one, and in the end there is only one dude left, because that was the point.

Final Fantasy XIII (and XIII-2) and Skyrim are the perfect reason why we should stop calling JRPGs RPGs. They're not. You may as well compare Final Fantasy XIII-2 to Mario.

The fact that people insist on comparing Skyrim and Final Fantasy is exactly why they end up disappointed by one or the other.

Agreed! And I'll 1-up it and say that I don't think Mass Effect should be considered an RPG either. The mastermind behind The Elder Scrolls, Ken Rolston, had bid disagreements with Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare on this exact subject at this past years GDC "RPG Influencers" breakfast. Rolston believes that RPG's should be games that the player "writes his own story" inside, instead of the offerings that BioWare uses: extremely heavy uses of dialog, story driven narratives with few player choices, movie-esque characters, etc. BioWare wants you to see and play what they want you to and you get the option of making a few major choices throughout the games - it's actually quite a linear affair.

I enjoy the Mass Effect series and would agree that it's an RPG-lite, but I don't agree that their games are full-fledged RPG titles at all. I don't think they should be considered as a leading RPG company. If that's so, then Quantum Dream should have included a skill tree in Heavy Rain and they'd be one too!

Final Fantasy XIII (and XIII-2) and Skyrim are the perfect reason why we should stop calling JRPGs RPGs. They're not. You may as well compare Final Fantasy XIII-2 to Mario.

The fact that people insist on comparing Skyrim and Final Fantasy is exactly why they end up disappointed by one or the other.

Agreed! And I'll 1-up it and say that I don't think Mass Effect should be considered an RPG either. The mastermind behind The Elder Scrolls, Ken Rolston, had bid disagreements with Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare on this exact subject at this past years GDC "RPG Influencers" breakfast. Rolston believes that RPG's should be games that the player "writes his own story" inside, instead of the offerings that BioWare uses: extremely heavy uses of dialog, story driven narratives with few player choices, movie-esque characters, etc. BioWare wants you to see and play what they want you to and you get the option of making a few major choices throughout the games - it's actually quite a linear affair.

I enjoy the Mass Effect series and would agree that it's an RPG-lite, but I don't agree that their games are full-fledged RPG titles at all. I don't think they should be considered as a leading RPG company. If that's so, then Quantum Dream should have included a skill tree in Heavy Rain and they'd be one too!

Something tells me I just opened a can of worms!

So if Final Fantasy and other games like it (Dragon Quest, Wild Arms, Blue Dragon, Persona series, etc.) aren't RPG's then what exactly are they? That's like saying Mario isn't a platformer, or Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, or Soul Calibur isn't a fighter, etc.

Why are RPG's so hard to pin down, yet other gaming genres aren't nearly as complicated to label?

What's an RPG? Go look at Dungeons and Dragons. The pen-and-paper game, not the video games. That was the original RPG. The first RPG. And as such, the philosophy driving that game is the definition of RPG.

JRPGs are nothing like Dungeons and Dragons. JRPGs are not RPGs, though semantically, they're a useful term to describe the likes of Final Fantasy.

Doesn't make them RPGs.

(and now thanks to keyword loading, NintendoLife is going to be the #1 search result for "RPG" in Google. You guys owe me )

So if Final Fantasy and other games like it (Dragon Quest, Wild Arms, Blue Dragon, Persona series, etc.) aren't RPG's then what exactly are they? That's like saying Mario isn't a platformer, or Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, or Soul Calibur isn't a fighter, etc.

Except Mario is a platformer, by the definition of platformers. Soul Calibur is a fighter by the definition of fighters. JRPGs are not RPGs by the definition of RPGs.

If you've never been to Markarth, I highly recommend doing so. It looks so beautiful.

Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl."Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb?A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.Just Say No To Toast!

What's an RPG? Go look at Dungeons and Dragons. The pen-and-paper game, not the video games. That was the original RPG. The first RPG. And as such, the philosophy driving that game is the definition of RPG.

JRPGs are nothing like Dungeons and Dragons. JRPGs are not RPGs, though semantically, they're a useful term to describe the likes of Final Fantasy.

Doesn't make them RPGs.

(and now thanks to keyword loading, NintendoLife is going to be the #1 search result for "RPG" in Google. You guys owe me )

So if Final Fantasy and other games like it (Dragon Quest, Wild Arms, Blue Dragon, Persona series, etc.) aren't RPG's then what exactly are they? That's like saying Mario isn't a platformer, or Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, or Soul Calibur isn't a fighter, etc.

Except Mario is a platformer, by the definition of platformers. Soul Calibur is a fighter by the definition of fighters. JRPGs are not RPGs by the definition of RPGs.

See the difference?

Then what exactly are they? If they aren't specifically RPG's, then what genre do they fit into?

Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl."Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb?A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.Just Say No To Toast!

Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl."Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb?A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.Just Say No To Toast!

They're not actual RPGs, they're JRPGs — the Japanese took the basic RPG model and changed it so much that it's no longer an actual RPG model anymore. Thus the 'J' in that acronym. It's like 'folk rock' versus 'punk rock' — they've both got the word 'rock' in their name, they both share some similarities, but they are otherwise two very different styles of music deserving of their own separate genre titles.

If we could get back to the main discussion now — which is Skyrim, not labels and semantics — I'd greatly appreciate it, Tendoboy. Thanks in advance!

BEST THREAD EVERfuture of NL >:3
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They're not actual RPGs, they're JRPGs — the Japanese took the basic RPG model and changed it so much that it's no longer an actual RPG model anymore. Thus the 'J' in that acronym. It's like 'folk rock' versus 'punk rock' — they've both got the word 'rock' in their name, they both share some similarities, but they are otherwise two very different styles of music deserving of their own separate genre titles.

If we could get back to the main discussion now — which is Skyrim, not labels and semantics — I'd greatly appreciate it, Tendoboy. Thanks in advance!

Very good example. Thank you.

Anyhow, I was curious if there are other people like me, where when you level up, you don't necessarily put your perk into a skill tree, but hang onto a bunch before using a couple. I tend to hang onto 2 or 3 at a time in order to get better perks later when my skills are a higher level.

Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl."Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb?A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.Just Say No To Toast!

They're not actual RPGs, they're JRPGs — the Japanese took the basic RPG model and changed it so much that it's no longer an actual RPG model anymore. Thus the 'J' in that acronym. It's like 'folk rock' versus 'punk rock' — they've both got the word 'rock' in their name, they both share some similarities, but they are otherwise two very different styles of music deserving of their own separate genre titles.

If we could get back to the main discussion now — which is Skyrim, not labels and semantics — I'd greatly appreciate it, Tendoboy. Thanks in advance!

Well thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize Japanese RPG's were in their own separate genre. I always assumed they were all just RPG's.