Why There Should Be No Mosques at Ground Zero – The placement of mosques throughout Islamic history has been an expression of conquest and superiority over non-Muslims. Muslims built the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock on the site of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in order to proclaim Islam’s superiority to Judaism. The Umayyad Mosque in Damascus was built over the Church of St. John the Baptist, and the Hagia Sophia Cathedral in Constantinople was converted into a mosque, to express the superiority of Islam over Christianity. Historian Sita Ram Goel has estimated that over 2,000 mosques in India were built on the sites of Hindu temples for the same reason.

So yes, nothing is ‘proven’ about the true motives behind the building of this complex. And thus, any protests out of anger and perceived insult are probably irrational and – perhaps even – intolerant.

As AoSHQ puts it in reaction to the centre being finally cleared to go:

If you really want to reach out to others, one of the first rules is you don’t do it in a way that is provocative and insulting to the people you allegedly are trying to come together with. Very often activists hide their activism in the gauzy, politically correct language of ‘out reach’ and ‘tolerance’ but their actions are anything but.

…

I’m not advocating that we sink to the level of these backward nations. No one is denying the organizers of the Ground Zero mosque project have a legal right to do what they are doing. I’m simply saying, if you’re goal is to really enhance understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims, there are a lot better ways to do it and places more in need of it than the area around the World Trade Center.

The building of a Carmelite convent at Auschwitz in the 1980s so wounded Jewish sensibilities that Pope John Paul II ordered it removed in 1993, even though the Holocaust was not carried out in the name of any faith.

51 Responses to “Analogy Zero”

While I know that there are compassionate, friendly, peaceful Muslims; I know enough about Islam to know that the fundamentalists have just as much right – if not more- to claim that they are following “real” Islam.

As to your pictoral analogy, some others have picked up on it or have come to a similar conclusion, not only based specifically upon the mosque at/near Ground Zero, but also that apparently one or more Six Flags Amusement Parks here in the states will have a Muslim Family day on the weekend of 9-11. That’s some poor business acumen.

It is the height of insensitivity and arrogance to build the mosque so near to ground zero where over a thousand innocents were snuffed out while going about their daily lives.
The ugliness of those who profess to be ‘defenders of Islam’ is enough to make me very thankful I am not Muslim. If Islam is a religion of peace and love, why has it has been displaying HATE, VIOLENCE, INJUSTICE & heaps of CRUELTY? The high degree of corrupt Muslim leaders here is definitely not helping too.

By the way, there are other places in Israel (e.g. Nazareth) where mosques were built on sites that were holy to other religions. You may recall that one of the demands of the terrorists who took over the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem was to build a mosque on the site. Fortunately, they did not win that demand.

#
samgee2007
3 hours ago
@OxyConservative -the mosque is a symbol of success!we will build the mosque no matter what you say sucker!… Islam cannot be defeated by American soldiers!..When we destroy something we will build mosque!﻿ Islam is the fastest growing religion USA!

Stop Islamization of America’s (SIOA) next campaign to reach and educate the American people have hit the streets of Chicago, the first in a nationwide campaign: taxitops! I thought it was a perfect medium to get our message to the people who are hungry, tired of the lies and starving for information that the media is too afraid to provide.

Having a mosque at Ground Zero would be the equivalent of having a Japanese Shinto shrine built next to the USS Arizona. Do the followers of Shinto have a right to have a shrine in Honolulu? Yes. In close proximity to the USS Arizona? No. I am well aware that many Japanese did not support the attack on Pearl Harbor and in fact, Japanese-Americans in a Nisei battalion composed the most decorated combat unit in the American armed forces in WWII, as they demonstrated their patriotism, even while many of their family members were shamefully placed in internment camps in the United States. That still does not negate the fact that it would be inappropriate to have a Japanese shrine in close proximity to the USS Arizona. It is similarly inappropriate to put a mosque in close proximity to Ground Zero.http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/richard_land/2010/07/a_mosque_at_ground_zero_is_inappropriate_and_counterproductive.html

While his pronouncement concerning the mosque might find favor in the Muslim world, Obama’s stance runs counter to the opinions of the majority of Americans, according to polls. A CNN/Opinion Research poll released this week found that nearly 70 percent of Americans opposed the mosque plan while just 29 percent approved. A number of Democratic politicians have shied away from the controversy.

Very unfortunately..many people believe in biased media of the West that
tarnished greatly the image of Islam. Muslims are against, oppose and hate the actions of certain peoples that used “Islam” in their struggle. Mostly, their struggles are Political ! Not religious.

I think, if everyone can do away with prejudice, ill- hearts, misinformed, wrong believe, egocentric etc.. they will understand and accept the fact
that Islam is religion of harmony and peace, anti-bad things – including
anti “suicide bombers”, “terrorism” etc. It is ‘haram’ (greatly sinful) in the eyes of Islamic teaching.

It happened to be some Muslims that did some of such such crimes. It tainted the good image of Muslims/ Islam. Crime to humanity are every where. Suicide bombers also exploded themselves in Sri Lanka.

Haha… Oddly, Nasaei.. you’re condemning your Prophet Muhammad along with those ‘bad Muslims’, since he himself advocated killing (Sura 9:29)..

“3. Muhammad in his Quran promises sensuous Gardens for martyrs dying in a military holy war.

Throughout the Quran, Muhammad promises the men in his fledgling Muslim community that if they die fighting for Allah and for him, Allah will reward them with a “virgin-rich” Garden (Suras 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78).

In the following Quranic passage, representing others (Suras 4:74, 9:111; 3:140-143), the Arabic word “jihad” (root is j-h-d) is the means or currency to trade in this life for the life to come in an economic bargain.

61:10 You who believe, shall I show you a bargain that will save you from painful punishment? 11 Have faith in God and His Messenger and struggle [j-h-d] for His cause with your possessions and your persons—that is better for you, if only you knew—12 and He will forgive your sins, admit you into Gardens graced with flowing streams, into pleasant dwellings in the Gardens of Eternity. That is the supreme triumph. (Haleem)”
Quoted directly from www answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm

Muslims understood it differently Zack. If your country is under war, or being attacked, if you join the people who defend the country, it would be a great reward.

If you understand it as calling Muslims to hunt non Muslims and kill them..

ha ha..you got it wrong I think. Sorry.

I think Saudi Arabia (for example) practice Islamic law. If you kill a non Muslim in Saudi Arabia, what will you get ? Death penalty !

Killing is one of the greatest sin in Islam. But dying in defence of your country is ‘rewarding’.

“Jihad”, as you know, not just defending the country but striving hard for good/ betterment of your life eg. economy, improving your family, you education is also ‘jihad’ – also ‘rewarding’ and encourage like defending the country too. I think defending the country is also defending the lives/ its people/citizen/properties etc.

Why you understood it differently ? (I don’t know, you have the answer maybe).

Ha ha.. I understood it differently also on some other issues – like many other peoples do. Funny ! What went wrong with us huh?? I understand (and believe my eyes).. there are so many contradictions in the Holy Bible, really. But you say (and believe) IT IS NOT !

Why is this happened ? Yes..maybe we see things from different angles/ perspective? I believe / can’t believe my eyes ?

There’s a difference between understanding it differently which leads to contradiction, as compared to the bible/quran itself teaching contradictory things.

You see contradictions, because you understand it differently. Read in the context of the passage or the bible as a whole, and you’ll find nothing contradictory… Especially so when it comes to the doctrines related to Jesus Christ, Trinity, etc.
___

No, Nasaei, Sura 9:29 is not about fighting ‘back’ or ‘defending’ yourself. It’s talking about going forth to ATTACK and kill the unbelievers.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

If there are translations that translated it as ‘fight back’, well, reading in context and you’ll find that there’s nothing to ‘fight back’ against!

Heed the words of this author when he said…
“Various academicians have strong personal opinions and biases regarding Islam. Many of these biases are determined not by the actual Islamic source materials, but by upbringing, friends, faith, politics, and so forth. The challenge is to overcome preconceived ideas and biases by examining Islamic source materials in an objective and rational manner. One must acknowledge what the source material actually teaches. We need the attitude of a student who is open to learning new concepts and is willing to correct beliefs when mistaken. This is easier said than done.”
Article: www answering-islam.org/Silas/juancole.htm

Yea..I think you got it wrong Zack. Muslims believe it is wrong, great sin to ‘go and kill people’ as you said. I don’t lie to you, no Muslim believe such thing. By Yusuf Ali’s, Pitchall’s, Rashad Khalifa’s or Jakim translations, the same. Something went wrong with you I think. (like the Holy Bible contradictions – I don’t know, I have no idea at all, why some people said there was NO contradictions?). In my eyes.. it is clearly a contradiction.

Here’s another article about Muslims and fighting in the way of Allah, which is based on a well-known ex-Muslim Jihadist, Walid Shoebat.
– www cc-act.net/Martyrs_Shaheed.php (with verses from both Quran AND hadiths)

And in case you say ‘fighting in the way of Allah’ refers to self-defense?
Your own Quran says otherwise…

003.167
YUSUFALI: And the Hypocrites also. These were told: “Come, fight in the way of Allah, or (at least) drive (The foe from your city).” They said: “Had we known how to fight, we should certainly have followed you.” They were that day nearer to Unbelief than to Faith, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts but Allah hath full knowledge of all they conceal.
PICKTHAL: And that He might know the hypocrites, unto whom it was said: Come, fight in the way of Allah, or defend yourselves. They answered: If we knew aught of fighting we would follow you. On that day they were nearer disbelief than faith. They utter with their mouths a thing which is not in their hearts. Allah is Best Aware of what they hide.
SHAKIR: And that He might know the hypocrites; and it was said to them: Come, fight in Allah’s way, or defend yourselves. They said: If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you. They were on that day much nearer to unbelief than to belief. They say with their mouths what is not in their hearts, and Allah best knows what they conceal.

What went wrong with us?
One – I’m bringing you verses after verses along with studies and testimonies to affirm the Quran teaches violence and killing gives assurance to salvation according to Muhammad
Two – you refuse to accept them and only assert they’re not true… and appealing to the ‘contradictions’ in the Bible to refute my point… which doesn’t help you in any way, regarding violence in Islam as taught in the Quran.

However, you cannot deny that it is violent extremists who claim that they follow Islam who have made it into the popular tactic it is today. Western media or not, you very seldom get members who claim to follow other religions exploding themselves among civilians.

I reiterate that the real problem is not ‘negative Western perceptions of Islam as violent’. The real problem is the perceptions of thousands or millions of Muslims who think that Islam commands them to kill nonMuslims.

Solve the latter problem, and I assure you the former problem will shrink into insignificance.

———————————–

Also, see your debate with Zack over what Islam really teaches. This is what I am talking about – if a nonMuslim can get this understanding from his own reading of Islamic texts, what more the hundreds of young uneducated men listening to religious teachers who tell them that only suicide attacks can earn them paradise, or educated young men who are influenced by firebrand ulamas who believe that combat-jihad is their duty?

The problem of nonMuslims misunderstanding or misrepresenting Islam amongst other nonMuslims is only of secondary importance. The first importance is the Muslims who teach other Muslims that it is their duty to kill nonMuslims – regardless of war, which country, civilians, just happen to be in the area or whatever.

“…I reiterate that the real problem is not ‘negative Western perceptions of Islam as violent’. The real problem is the perceptions of thousands or millions of Muslims who think that Islam commands them to kill nonMuslims..” – Scott Thong.

Good point. Your concern is our concern too Scott. Misinterpretation, or ‘misbelieve’ is a serious problem. Could be those who carry bomb on their body thought that their actions were all Islamic, in fact NOT.

I think mainstream Muslims do not believe as such deviating/ misleading wrong interpretation. Ulamaks always remindMuslims not to interpret Quran as ones like; and mostly Muslims heed and acknowledge (i.e Quran cannot be interpreted by everybody in the streets, or so).

Take for example the verses that Zack and you gave above, regarding “killing”.

One must know the nature of Quranic revelation – if he/she wants to understand the verse).

Firstly, early Muslims were almost all time in a ‘ceasefire’ situation, because they were in many wars with the unbelievers pagan clans (long before the Roman).

Secondly, many Quranic verses were revealed to ‘answer/cater’ that particular situation. For example, early Muslims were drinkers. At one point, when many prayers fell down while in prayer, the verses about forbidding it then, revealed. From then on, alcohol was ‘officially’ forbidden. It says, the disadvantage (of alcohol is greater than its ‘advantages”

However, that doesn’t mean Quran is only for the past. It is for all mankind, all the time.

In the other example is the verse that damned Abu Lahab, Prophet’s unbeliever uncle (Al-Masad (111: 1-5). Before that particular time, there was no condemnation on his uncle.

Then, many times Prophets (pbuh) deferred to answer some questions posed to him by people, until the revelation came to him from God later (inspired?).

Nasaei ” For example, early Muslims were drinkers. At one point, when many prayers fell down while in prayer, the verses about forbidding it then, revealed. From then on, alcohol was ‘officially’ forbidden. It says, the disadvantage (of alcohol is greater than its ‘advantages” ”

I find this interseting…

1 – Quran is from Allah
2 – In the Quran (if I’m not wrong), it says do not drink too much before prayers..
3 – Later on, do not drink at all.
4 – Worse still, in paradise you can drink all you want.

Nevermind the fourth one… but the 3rd and 2nd is an issue.
If Allah is really all-knowing.. why doesn’t he forbids drinking in the first place… instead of telling Muhammad to disallow excessive drinking before prayers?

“Then, many times Prophets (pbuh) deferred to answer some questions posed to him by people, until the revelation came to him from God later (inspired?).”

No, it’s called ‘brainstorming’ in Muhammad’s case, since he is a proven false prophet through the bible.

When you have an honest understanding of what the bible teach.. and then compare that to Muhammad and the Quran.. you’ll see that Muhammad was no different from Joseph Smith (of the Mormons).

So the iman wants to show how tolerant his religion is, doesn’t he? He is so sincere about wanting to show how embracing his religion is to all other faiths and how peaceful they are, right? OK.

A good place to start as a honest person who has nothing to hide, and as someone who is determine to build so called bridges of understanding is to put all his resources and build churches, temples and synagogues in Saudi. It’s a religion of tolerance you said so what is the problem?

If the so called inter faith understanding and peace cannot start right there or right inside places like Iran, than what tolerance and interfaith are you talking about!? It doesn’t add up at all. Only fools will believe in the lies and deceptions you are trying to pull.

Zack T Says: : “…When you have an honest understanding of what the bible teach.. and then compare that to Muhammad and the Quran.. you’ll see that Muhammad was no different from Joseph Smith (of the Mormons)…”

In 1996, Hart addressed a conference organized by Jared Taylor’s “race-realist” organization, American Renaissance, on the need for a racial partition of the United States.
Hart proposed a three-way division with one part for white separatists, one part for black separatists, and one part left as multiracial nation. He said that that a peaceful, voluntary partition is the only way to prevent violence.

See Michael H Hart in ‘The 100: A ranking of the Most influential Persons in History ,New York:Hart Publishing Company,Inc.1978.page 33) – loop

Ah yes. I have that book. Funny how Muhammad is considered the most influential, when so much of his own beliefs and actions were INFLUENCED by Jesus and Moses! So shouldn’t Jesus and Moses get bonus points for influencing the world through Muhammad?

Snark aside, funny how Islam totally had about no influence on most of the major events involving a majority of the world’s population – European colonization, World War II, America, the Soviet Union, China, space exploration, genetics, nuclear research, relativity, quantum physics, robotics, computer tech, industrialization, electricity, other scientific discoveries not made 1000 years ago.

By contrast, a whole lot of Jews, Christians and atheists were active in that list!

‘By contrast, a whole lot of Jews, Christians and atheists were active in that list!’

BUT DO YOU KNOW THAT?
Every fifth person in the world is a Muslim?
Majority of the Muslims are of non-Arab race and nationalities?
There are 8 million Muslims in the U.S.A.?
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the U.S.A.?

Diwan Chand Sharma-The prophets of the East
John William Draper,M.D.,LLD-A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe.
George Bernard Shaw- The Genuine of Islam.
R.Bosworth-Smith-Mohahammed and Mohammedanism
Thomas Carlyle’s article-The Hero as Prophet

A Muslim can shave his beard, but he will be shot by the Taliban or Iranian guard?
A Muslimah can choose not to wear hijab, but she will be whipped, stoned or raped for ‘immorality’ and ‘asking for it’? Just ask Nik Aziz and Sheik Hilaly.
A Muslim woman can work, drive and walk around outside alone, but she will be arrested by Saudi moral police?
A Muslimah can go to university, but when the hostel catches fire the guards won’t unlock the doors because the women aren’t ‘properly dressed’ and thus burn to death?
When a child dedicates himself to a religion, if it is not Islam then the Malaysian govt will forcibly ‘correct’ his error with brainwashing?
When a Muslim kills someone, it is usually another Muslim not a Jew or Christian?
When a Palestinian ‘saves’ someone, it is usually by putting that person in front of himself while he throws rocks at IDF soldiers? When not ‘sacrificing himself’ by strapping explosives to his sons and sending them to IDF checkpoints of course!

Isn’t it time to familiarize yourself with Islam?

When a perfectly ordinary, peaceful boy gets into the car and suddenly becomes a crazed racing driver, purposely aiming at pedestrians to knock them down… And many other perfectly ordinary, peaceful boys have the exact same thing happened to them when they get into the same car… Don’t you think anyone would wonder whether there is something to do with the car itself?

People look at the tradition of Islam, that is the problem – because it matches the newspaper reports today. Newspaper reports – killings in Pakistan, India, USA, UK, Spain, Russia, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines, Middle East, including lots of internal fighting (Battle of Siffin hmm?). Tradition – 461 years of conquering before the First Crusade even started, constant invasions/pillaging/enslavement/piracy, including lots of internal fighting.

BUT DO YOU KNOW THAT?
Every third person in the world is a Christian? While every sixth person is an atheist, agnostic or secularist?
Majority of Christians are of non-Caucasian race and nationalities?
There are 25 million Christians in the Middle East Amazing, especially considering how they are constantly harassed, denied freedom to worship, raped, killed, forced to convert, chased out of the country…
Christianity is the fastest growing religion in China? And if some reports are to be believed, the fastest rate of conversion among Muslims as well?

Seriously dude, if your group is so great, why are you lagging so far behind in terms of science, technology, social equality and happiness while surging so far ahead in human rights abuses, poverty, social inequality and terrorist attacks (on your own group and on others)?

Why don’t you dare let those in your group make the free, unrestrained choice to choose a new group if they want? Every other major group (even atheists not under communist dictatorships) allows the members to quit if they want, yet they don’t shrink to zero for allowing it.

Seriously loop – start looking at how Muslims treat nonMuslims, and how Muslims treat Muslims of different sects, and even how Muslims treat Muslims of the same sect when it involves alleged traitors, apostates and not-holy-enough.

After that you can look at how nonMuslims treat Muslims.

Tell me, of all your alleged mistreatment and double standards against Islam, are any Muslims kept as sex slaves by nonMuslims in nonMuslims countries? Or have their wife raped while they are burned to death? Or have their necks cut while their babies are scalped? Or have the police stand by while they are beaten? Or have their holy places destroyed and their holy books burnt?

No! This only happens in Muslim countries, to nonMuslims, committed by Muslims! While in the West, even calling a Muslim a name gets you arrested for hate speech. Even mentioning Mohammad in a not 100%-worshipful manner gets censored from TV. Even questioning the sensitivity of an Islamic centre near Ground Zero gets branded as Islamophobia and denounced by the Mayor.

You tell me honestly, genius – A Muslim sees a painting of Jesus and complains that he feels offended and the co-worker has to remove the painting, in Britain. Versus a Muslim is exploded by another Muslim for disagreeing on who should have succeeded Mohammad 1400 years ago, in many Muslim nations. Which is really worse for the Muslim?

Your priorities are soooooooo backwards.

Again, if Islam is soooooo wonderful, why do you have to force people to stay in it? They can’t even talk about leaving without visit from the angry religious authorities.

Compare: McDonalds is sooooo yummy, people will go eat it without being threatened with stoning, hanging or ISA detention.

Or better: Christianity is soooooo attractive, people are free to leave any time, yet it keeps growing. In fact, people threaten Christians with discrimination, rape, murder, exile, prison etc all the time unless they renounce their faith (and most often, unless they convert to Islam). And yet it grows!

What a contrast. Islam has to keep its people on a tight leash. Meanwhile, its more zealous members persecute Christians and try to bring as many of them into Islam as possible, forcefully. Yet Christianity keeps growing. What a contrast.

This sort of assault on free speech — one of the West’s most cherished liberties — has become sadly familiar in places like the Netherlands and Denmark. In 2004, for example, a Muslim extremist slit the throat of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh in retribution for his movie condemning the abuse of women in conservative Islamic societies. In 2006, Dutch-Somali writer and politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali — an outspoken critic of Islam — was forced to flee Holland after threats on her life. In Denmark, cartoonist Kurt Westergaard lives under police protection after a Somali man attempted to murder him.

loop Says:
“‘By contrast, a whole lot of Jews, Christians and atheists were active in that list!’

BUT DO YOU KNOW THAT?
Every fifth person in the world is a Muslim?
Majority of the Muslims are of non-Arab race and nationalities?
There are 8 million Muslims in the U.S.A.?
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the U.S.A.?

Isn’t it time to familiarize yourself with Islam?”

I kinda find it annoying when ever questioned about Islam and its’ teachings… Muslims usually have this particular reply, “Islam is the fastest growing religion in the *insert location or ‘world’*”.. as if it automatically proves the truthfulness of the Islamic teaching.
(They fail to mention that Muhammad taught Muslims to lie in order to achieve their goals when necessary; taqiyya)

In response to this constant reply, someone in this blog wrote this post stating that, according to Islamic teaching, Islam is actually the fastest SHRINKING religion in the world.
Check out his reasoning at this link.