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Of course we would of bashed Intel for rebranding a P4 for mobile. It would be a POS. But I praise the P-M. If I was willing to spend 2-3k on a laptop, I would chose it any day over AMD. And I'm even a AMD fanboi.Reply

The Turion 64 ML series is obviously a 90nm Mobile A64 (both are 35W, both are S754, etc., etc.) However, the MT series is a 90nm 25W Mobile A64. There is a difference, just not a big one.

Myself, I'm waiting for a Geode 64. Seeing as the Turion 64 is hitting higher clock speeds at lower voltages than the AXP-M, a Geode 64 is very likely... Actually, I'm waiting on the dev board - hopefully, it'll be Mini-ITX ;-)Reply

Since it's not used in laptops, they probably ignored it...but to be fair, they also ignored:
1. The ULP Opteron and A64
2. The data showing that TDP for Intel and AMD are based on different things (meaning that an Intel TDP of 27w is probably about equal to an AMD TDP of 35w because Intel uses probable power and AMD uses max theoretical power).
3. Chipset power utilization

"No chipsets from AMD either"

Both Via and ATI have announced and shipped their chipsets already...Via's is the K8N800A, and ATI's is the mobile version of the Radeon Xpress 200.
SIS and Nvidia are due to release theirs in the next 2 weeks...Reply

Personally I'll be interested in these chips in laptops because I do a lot of the sort of stuff (floating point...) that I know the A64 architecture is so good at. I suppose if I were a digital video buff I might prefer the P-M.

Incidentally... 2GHz! That is not bad. Even 1.8GHz used to be a "high" clock speed for AMD quite recently I recall, and now it's in 25W.Reply

IMO, I know that AMD doesnt have the luxury of controlling what it will brand with the mobile 64 for the Turion platform but that integration is what made the Centrino partly in its success.

One thing i can think of is the software issues. There isnt multiple platforms or chips to worry about, just one set of 3 components dictated by Intel to a certain standard.

Second, even though I like the power consumption of AMD's chip compared to the P4, its nowhere near the Pentium M in this case. Also while we are in the area of power consumption, I am sure that AMD will require the third party manufacturs to have chips under a certain power rating but I dont know if that will be the case.Reply

"ASUS, Averatec, BenQ, MSI and Packard Bell are among the leading, global computer manufacturers who have indicated they will support AMD Turion 64 mobile technology."
Packard Bell !!! Does it still exist?Reply

Thanks guys, I spotted the single channel mem contorller soon after I posted so realised that it had to be the 754 part. I just wondered whether AMD would go to another socket for these processors to stop their use in other desktop PCs. It seems from what I'm reading that it is just a S754 arrangement.

Oh well, this, I guess, means no dual core Turion? Or are AMD going to release a 754 dual core part? I thought dual core was going to be a S939 and newer thing.

So when we see dual core Pentium-M, will AMD be able to respond?

I do like the idea of 1Mb L2 cache, my S939 A64 3000+ is rather lacking in that area, but I think I will stick with S939 so I can upgrade in 2 years time (hoping for cheap dual core).

#11 - as #26 pointed out, nF4 is certainly capable of being put into a small space. The Shuttle XPC SN25P I just reviewed definitely has a smaller motherboard than uATX, an it could be made smaller yet if it were targeting a laptop configuration. Pictures are available in the article:

Well this is probably perfect for AMD -- not many resources involved in developing it (just in adjusting A64 for a lower TDP and overall better mobile package), and a decent effect on the market.

Dothan is a nice chip - at 1.6 Ghz, it matches most P4's in the low 2 Ghz range (on the P4 533FSB). At 2.0, on the 400 FSB, it matches upper level P4's, is furthered by the 533 FSB, and OC'ed, in many cases, it can beat the top performers in the market (A64 4000+, P4 EE) in certain areas, all at a power/heat level far lower than that of the Oven (oops I mean Prescott), Northwood, or AMD64 lineup.

But P-M has some issues - floating point performance is weak, as is multitasking (which is not aided by the lack of HT). These two issues should be fixed by the dual-core setup. Now that will be very interesting...

So I think Turion will be somewhere in the middle -- won't match P-M's power or heat efficiency, or its top-end performance, but it'll be a solid stopgap measure in between. Athlon 64 isn't the best multitasking performer either, and that'll pass on to the Turion, but it's not bad, and if adopted may give P-M a run for its money.

Will I buy it, probably not :-) But it might be effective in the mid-range.

Until we see dual-core P-M's on the market, I'll enjoy my P4 3.0 / 533 Northwood on my laptop. 2 hour battery is not too bad, if I can do some serious stuff while it's lasts :-)Reply

While this isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, I like the idea, since we will actually get performance and decent battery life. And for the guy who says that if Intel had just slapped a Centrino sticker on a P4, well, of course people would be mad, it would sear the flesh off your legs. AMD has a cooler, lower voltage part for desktop; it makes perfect sense to simply adapt it to mobile. Dothan is very nice but it has minor flaws; the A64 may just give Centrino as run for it's money.Reply

Seems the MT models are only $5 more (in bulk) than the ML models. If you had the choice, would you really even consider the ML if the MT is readily available? Hopefully the mark-up on the MT's won't be astronomical.

19: I'm pretty sure I don't agree with your "bias" accusation. Turion is equivalent to the Pentium M 75x models, which is what is being compared here.Reply

I like my Centrino IBM laptop because I get 5 hours of battary life out of it. One time, I left it on all night with the Wi-Fi, bluetooth, and monitor turned off and still had a ton of battary life left. Although I will never buy Intel for the PC, it will take an impressive feat by AMD for me to switch over for the laptops.

All I care about in laptops is battary life. All I want to know is can Turion get longer battary than Centrino?Reply

That's the thing the 115W parts are based on the highest desktop parts available. A low voltage P4 Prescott wouln't be in that range as they would run with lower voltage.

A reasonable estimate would be 50-70 range for the low voltage P4 Prescott. Although with clock frequencies only in the 2.8GHZ - 3.2GHZ range. Though since 60W is still quite hefty power consumption Intel decided they needed another processor altogether and hence the Pentium M.

No doubt though 25W is great, AMD's K8 arhictecture offers flexibility, which is crucial for a company like AMD which can't afford multiple lines. Reply

The problem is AMD is marketing this like it is an entirely new technology which is not true. It is misleading. Which is why I think if things were reveresed this article would have about 20+ pages of negative commentary.

Intel's Pentium M is an extension of the P3 architecture. It is NOT binned P3 chips. Dothan is NOT a Pentium III anymore. It is a Pentium M.

Intel has used desktop Pentium 3 and 4 chips in notebooks, as you all know. The difference here is that they don't try and conceal the fact they're desktop CPUs - they're the Pentium 4 Mobile. Big difference from Centrino.Reply

#12 If Intel had taken a binned, low-voltage [115W] P4 and slapped a Centrino sticker on it, everyone here would be bashing to no end.

No wonder, it would still heat up your laptop like hell.

Amd is taking a 35W Amd64, binning it at selling it like a "centrino".

What is the problem?

It is not as if the Dothan is anything but a P3 on speed, same as the A64 is a K7 on speed... (P3 and K7 is the same generation cpu).

Having the memorycontroller on the cpu must be more power (double meaning) efficient than having it on the northbridge and the chipset must be easier to make.... sooo... what is wrong with amd beeing able to use their desktop cpus as laptop cpus?

Nobody ever complained when intel did that with the P3 series... The P4 series on the other hand (prescot) is so hot it is idiotic to use it in laptops...

I am not saying Turion is the holy grail of laptops. I want to see performance/heat/battery time tests before I give it my "Approved" stamp. Reply

#8, I was wondering the same thing. I love the mobile 2600+ in my desktop, would be interested in seeing how high you can overvolt/overclock one of these. Anyone know what voltage they're running at to put out 35 watts at 2ghz?Reply

#8 I don't think you'll ever see a miniITX NF4 board. NF4 (I think) can't go any smaller than full ATX, certainly can't go smaller than microATX. If you want miniITX for an AMD platform, VIA is really the only hope.Reply

will there actually be MA - MZ type processors? bundled with the 4 different initial clock speeds?..... wow -- talk about a huge number of products! how will pricing work?
and there will be an obvious shortage of the lowest power spec and cheapest versions....

if its desktop socket compatible, should be a nice sucessor to the mobile xp cpus... Reply

While I don't see it ever happening, #6, that would be awesome. As is, it's frickin' impossible to fix laptops. They make it so damn hard to disassemble. Also, I would hope that they wouldn't do stupid things with the design, such as putting a right-angled plug in the back, so that when you actually put the thing in your lap, it puts stress on the component that interfaces the plug and the motherboard, making the thing eventually come loose. Thanks, Compaq!

And while I'm complaining: could laptop makers *please* start using Intel's ASL compiler for their ACPI DSDT tables? Microsoft's is nowhere near as strict and allows bugs through. OK thanks!Reply

I like AMD's track record, and the low heat that my 90nm overclocked Athlon 64 produces. I think this is going to be just what the doctor ordered as well and I can't wait to see a full review of it. Not benchmarks-wise, but the package as a whole. I sure liked Centrino notebooks, but I think I might prefer these because of the flexibility actually.Reply

Not much to say really, sounds pretty much like a normal mobile A64 laptop witha new sticker. I'll wait and see what the numbers say when these babies actually roll off the assembly lines. Til then, my Athlon XP2400+ notebook will do me just fine.Reply