I don't think the EU is going to punish the UK, and here's why. Everyone in the EU is now (more) frightened of their own right-wing fringe movements; and that means they can't afford economic disruption. Like it or not, punishing the UK will reduce demand for German exports : US$105 billion is ~3% of German GDP, give or take. That's a lot.

In the long run, the EU wants to punish the UK to prevent other countries from leaving (or holding referendums and then voting to leave). In the short run, they have their own banks holding pounds and UK-based hedge funds to worry about._________________Chaosium rules are made of unicorn pubic hair and cancer. --AncientH
When you talk, all I can hear is "DunningKruger" over and over again like you were a god damn Pokemon. --Frank

And if there are any weeds that grow better in barren soil than laziness and ignorance, I don't know what they are (and don't care enough to find out).

Kaelik wrote:

Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.

FrankTrollman wrote:

As far as death and human misery goes, Tobacco is basically World War II grinding on forever with no real sign of stopping in our life times. Death camps and nuclear bombs and stuff are certainly dramatic, but public health crises are always and forever bigger than wars on the global scale.

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!

We already have far right parties across Europe demanding their own anti-EU votes. Fascism just had a huge victory and I see no path to any positive outcome.

Go through with it and the Fascists win, block it and the Fascists revolt. It's bad no matter what, and tens of millions of migrants are going to suffer badly in the next few years.

The only way the EU is going to stop the bleeding is for things to get really bad really fast in the UK. Which will be bad for tens of millions of people who live there but at least won't give an ascendant hand to the National Front and Golden Dawn. So I guess we're hoping for a falling Pound and a massive capital flight from the UK to cause a big and rapid recession. That's the least horrible fallout I can even imagine.

Well the Pound has taken a huge hit already. Of course, so has the Euro, and even the Australian dollar because technically we're still something something Britain something? As to whether the Poundington just goes into freefall, that's another matter, but I guess we'll see.

And yeah, let's see if we get a Czechout, Oustria, Departugal, Italeave, Byegium, Latervia, Finish...

And another Skexit vote.
Not quite

Still, economic downturn combined with strong nationalism has never worked out badly in Europe._________________

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

A friend posted a stat showing that the older the British citizen, the more likely they were to vote to leave. I had sort of been mildly in favor of a Brexit (although I admit to being virtually ignorant on all important and technical points about it), but seeing that stat (and assuming it's somewhat accurate), I feel like I should've sided with the Remainers. In my biased opinion, siding with older folks in most any political matter is siding with the wrong group._________________Koumei: and if I wanted that, I'd take some mescaline and run into the park after watching a documentary about wasps.
PhoneLobster: DM : Mr Monkey doesn't like it. Eldritch : Mr Monkey can do what he is god damn told.
Chamomile: Deaddmwalking... was a holy warrior dedicated not to a specific cause, but to doing battle with a single foe. With his nemesis forever banished from our shores, he goes off to become a normal denner who puts irritating people on ignore rather than endlessly engage them.

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Cameron was already in a two way race with Lord North for worst prime minister of the United Kingdom's history, now he has an almost definite lock on the title unless his successor manages to de-electrify Wales or something. Remain won by double digits in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and already people are drawing up plans to break up the UK.

Little England beat Great Britain, and it now seems very likely that the United Kingdom won't survive. On the plus side, once the United Kingdom is no longer united, the United States of America will be the oldest country in the world. USA!

News at 11, British people demand end to human rights laws, food safety laws, open government laws, widespread freedom of movement, and everything else good about the modern world on the basis that Britain used be be awesome back when you couldn't even see how much better everyone else had it, and now they're just a bit part on Eurovision.

God save the Queen.

Still, good news for the Scottish independence movement, and the united Ireland movement, because they're totally going to want to stay in Europe, even if it means leaving the UK.

"British overseas territory Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, with 19,322 voting to remain and 823 voting to leave."

Them too, I reckon. Probably enjoyed being able to leave their rock now and then._________________news://rec.games.frp.dnd

Spain has already proposed joint sovereignty over Gibraltar. Something about the people of Gibraltar voting to stay in the EU by over 90 points. That escalated really quickly. And it's going to escalate more. People see this (correctly) as a sign of British weakness, and everyone is going to want to take a piece.

No need to speculate any further, because that's not going to fucking happen :gulp

_________________Koumei: and if I wanted that, I'd take some mescaline and run into the park after watching a documentary about wasps.
PhoneLobster: DM : Mr Monkey doesn't like it. Eldritch : Mr Monkey can do what he is god damn told.
Chamomile: Deaddmwalking... was a holy warrior dedicated not to a specific cause, but to doing battle with a single foe. With his nemesis forever banished from our shores, he goes off to become a normal denner who puts irritating people on ignore rather than endlessly engage them.

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If Cameron really wanted to support the "Stay" campaign, he should have taken the helm of the "Leave" campaign and promisedthreatened to resign if he didn't get his way. Given how many people seemed to Google "What happens if we leave the EU?" after voting closed, it looks like a fair number actually voted "Fuck Cameron".

Our tories are trying to spin it as "In these times of chaos, you need to stick with the current government, vote Coalition!" but really I think the moral of the story is "This is what happens when you vote conservative. DON'T VOTE CONSERVATIVE."_________________

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

I think it would be absolutely hilarious if this triggered a complete about face in UK politics, and then the newly elected sweeping Labor majority just said "fuck the referendum" and undid any progress towards leaving the EU that had happened, presumably after the Tories fight it out amongst themselves for a long time and never actual pass anything that even beings the alleged two year timetable or whatever._________________

"DSMatticus" wrote:

Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

"FrankTrollman" wrote:

Really, the only thing the "my character can beat up your character" challenges ever do by presenting a clear and unambiguous beat down is to have the loser drop of the thread and pretend the challenge never happened.

"Frank Trollman" wrote:

But just because the character should have something defined into their play space that allows them to contribute to the situations that the game expects to demand of them, doesn't mean that those contributions should be exactly the same action every time. Indeed, at the point in which the other players can essentially memorize your character's actions and repeat them verbatim whether you're in the room or not - your design has failed.

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Oh it's pretty clear it was largely a protest vote on largely local issues even if much of said protest vote was a bit fuzzy about the details.

Interestingly though the fascist right is already attacking the mainstream left based on the fact that labor didn't support Brexit and that the win essentially PROVES that labor is "out of touch". Meanwhile the mainstream right is attacking labor for being insufficiently successful in campaigning for remain even if their voters (I'm pretty sure from some random thing I read) still supported remain more than the tory voters did.

I don't see how labor was supposed to win on this. They should have stayed out on a "conscience vote" policy and let the whole shit storm fall on the Tories alone. The labor party is reaping nothing but a needless share of the loss.

In the mean time there is a small but real chance this might act as the final straw to trigger the worlds next major global economic crash about a year or so early. Which ranges from bad news to meaningless, but might just be really interesting locally in Australia if it can just manage to pull it off fairly obviously in the next, well WEEK.

The local conservative party, going to election what? two weekends from now? already attempted a "this is a gigantic fucking crisis you MUST VOTE FOR CONTINUED STABILITY!"

Then that played badly enough that within something like an hour they were backing out to a position of "Um... did you actually just ask us if we would change ANY neoliberal budget policies to deal with this crisis? er... don't worry, this isn't a crisis, no one should be worrying about anything! (but you still need to vote for continuity in the face of, um, non-crisis)"._________________Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)

Spain has already proposed joint sovereignty over Gibraltar. Something about the people of Gibraltar voting to stay in the EU by over 90 points. That escalated really quickly. And it's going to escalate more. People see this (correctly) as a sign of British weakness, and everyone is going to want to take a piece.

-Frank

Spain is always trying to propose taking it back though, but the folks down in Gibraltar have repeatedly rejected proposals for Spanish sovereignty such as the 1967 referendum and also in 2002. They had the option back then and I wouldn't bet on them wanting to go back to Spain now unless they offered a pretty serious plum or two.

I do expect Scotland to go though, from their point of view is it a bit cheeky UK cajoled them into staying and then turned around to leave the EU.

Northern Ireland may be a mess though. While there is popular support to rejoin main Ireland, I think this may just kick off new rounds of infighting in the region no matter what happens.

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Hang on, doesn't San Marino go back to 1631, making it the oldest even while the US hangs around? It wasn't taken by Napoleon, and it wasn't unified into Italy (and repelled Italian forces later on). Now it did go through a period of being ruled by the fascist party, but it still basically kept the same constitution it had before, which is still in effect, and the fascist party seems to have been voted in.

This is clearly the most important issue surrounding Brexit. "Which of the kids gets to be oldest"._________________

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

San Marino is a micro state that doesn't even have a currency rather than a nation state in the traditional sense. Also it was occupied by Germany and then India (yes, really, India) in September of 1944. But you can make a reasonable argument that San Marino is the oldest independent country.

As for Labour fucking up Brexit- yes. Labour had no good plays. If they stayed neutral and Brexit won they'd be blamed for the chaotic fallout and Corbyn would be out on his ass. If they supported Brexit they'd be blamed for the chaotic fallout and Corbyn would be out on his ass. If Brexit lost, they'd still lose voting share to nationalist parties.

The sad reality is that Labour is ideologically divided and has neither a vision nor an electoral strategy for the future. Corbyn is like old man Sanders in the US - some nice leftist rhetoric and some nice pet projects, but ultimately no grand plan for how to run the country as a whole and no grand horse trading scheme to get the various left of center interest groups into a single big tent.

The Torries are similarly divided, and their party declared neutrality. And they will also pay a price. They are going to lose a lot of votes to the now ironically named UKIP.

The SNP has 63 seats of the 129 seats in the Scottish parliament. So they can't even vote to stroke their own dicks without a coalition partner. The Scottish Greens just said that they are open to it, and that's enough to ram something through parliament.

This time, the SNP leader is saying she isn't going to rush it and intends to make a serious proposal with plans for currency and trade and such rather than the "Fuck it! We'll do it live!" plan that was both the previous Scottish independence and the Brexit referendums. I think because unlike the other two, Nicola expects to actually win if she takes this to the people.

And she probably will. Prominent No voices from the previous independence referendum like J.K. Rowling are coming out and saying that things have changed and they would now vote Yes.

No idea if the Northern Ireland merging with the Republic of Ireland plan has legs. But it's about a million times more likely today than it was last month.

No idea if the Northern Ireland merging with the Republic of Ireland plan has legs. But it's about a million times more likely today than it was last month.

-Frank

Yeah. That plan is being pushed by the Shin Fein. It's about as likely to make it past the Protestant majority as the inevitable followup of kill all Protestants is.

The big difference between Scotland and the Northern Ireland is simple. English kings gained dominion over Scotland by bringing in armies and murdering anyone who complained about their rule. The same is true for southern Ireland. English kings gained dominion over Northern Ireland by bringing in armies, murdering almost everyone, and then importing a bunch of Englishmen to settle the area.

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The main Leavers are places like Hull and Birmingham and Slough, which are basically the Belarus of England. Where they probably just mistook Leave for "Leave this awful county and move to the Cambridge area." So let the shitholes form their own England, with London, Oxford and Cambridge forming "England 4G Slim"._________________

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:

There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.

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That petition is less than a day old and has over fifty thousand signatures. At 100 thousand, a petition gets debated in parliament. Sadiq Khan is not going to become president of a London city state. But I have no idea how the Leavers are going to dig themselves out of this hole.

Boris Johnson and Gove tried to get Cameron to stay on for the negotiations so they wouldn't have to be responsible for their fallout. Then BoJo tried to get article 50 delayed until after the next election so he wouldn't have to be holding the bag beforehand. It's obvious that they never intended to win and just ran an ugly campaign of xenophobia to try and capitalize on a near miss.

Meanwhile Farage is in the same boat. He promised hundreds of millions of pounds for the NHS but had no means of getting them. The claimed areas of savings were all bullshit, he wouldn't have been able to make good on them even without the economy shrinking from protectionism and uncertainty. The Osborne "punishment budget" he decried as a political stunt by the Remain campaign was actually optimistic.

I want all the Denners who claimed there was a path to progress from Brexit to tell me what the fuck it actually is now that the chicken has indeed been fucked.