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Gays or bisexuals or whatever... in short, they have a different degree in gender issues...I've already proven this myself... in my conservatory, those you suspect to be such are most probably correct...

Originally posted by ignorant kid: Not me, but I definately know what you're talking about.

Maybe a better question is: are gays drawn to the piano or does all that piano-playing tend to make some people gay? [/b]

Most scientific studies on the question tend to reinforce the idea that sexual preference is genetic: one is either gay, bisexual or heterosexual. One cannot be "made" gay, just as gay men and women cannot be "made" straight.

For every gay pianist you can name, I'm sure someone can come up with ten or more who are not, which is about the average.

I fail to see what sexual preference and playing the piano have to do with each other.

ummm... I don't believe that people 'turn gay' by touching piano keys... Perhaps homosexuals are more comfortable with expressing their sensitivity and artistry. You have to be very secure with yourself in order to 'offer yourself' to others through music; it's a very vulnerable position which most 'stereotypical macho males' wouldn't feel comfortable doing. They would rather keep their emotions to themself and watch the game on TV with a beer - cause, that's what 'real' guys do, right?

I'm in a faculty of music at a Canadian university and I can say that the majority of the faculty is very supportive of each other and their artistic endevours, reguardless of sexual orientation. People could care less, this simply isn't an issue. Perhaps this also has something to do with living in a fantastically liberal country that respects everyone's rights reguardless of ethnicity or sexual orientation.

Originally posted by fathertopianist: I have no opinion or comment on this topic except to say that straight men who play piano have a tactical advantage in attracting women than non piano playing men. [/b]

...because sitting by yourself in a room all day works wonders for your social skills.

The arts community is generally more accepting of homosexuality than other fields.

I don't think there's anything intrinsically more or less "gay" about musicians, but I do think the field tends to attract a higher percentage of openly gay individuals.

For example, I know homosexual sales managers, travel agents, youth ministers, computer programmers, and, of course, pianists; but only the pianists are openly gay - the rest have had to hide it from their colleagues. (And they're usually frustrated by that and have to look outside their career communities for social support. Many of them find that support in the arts communities.)

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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

Originally posted by fathertopianist: I have no opinion or comment on this topic except to say that straight men who play piano have a tactical advantage in attracting women than non piano playing men. [/b]

...because sitting by yourself in a room all day works wonders for your social skills. [/b]

Originally posted by fathertopianist: I have no opinion or comment on this topic except to say that straight men who play piano have a tactical advantage in attracting women than non piano playing men. [/b]

So true - - My 81 year old mother ocassionally mentions an old boy friend (one of many since she was a real "Belle.") The first thing she always says about him was "He played the piano."[/b] The second thing was, "He was Italian." The third was "He was a pilot." This paragon went missing in WWII. She married my Dad, who is Irish, was the gunner and flight engineer, and plays nothing but practical jokes, but does like cats.

Originally posted by Kreisler: The arts community is generally more accepting of homosexuality than other fields.

I don't think there's anything intrinsically more or less "gay" about musicians, but I do think the field tends to attract a higher percentage of openly gay individuals.

For example, I know homosexual sales managers, travel agents, youth ministers, computer programmers, and, of course, pianists; but only the pianists are openly gay - the rest have had to hide it from their colleagues. (And they're usually frustrated by that and have to look outside their career communities for social support. Many of them find that support in the arts communities.) [/b]

An example from the past, the Marquis de Custine, a very kind and sensitive individual, was a friend of Chopin and Delacroix and their circle, precisely because the "artists" of Paris accepted him whereas his own social class did not. He had lived as a straight man with a wife, whom he loved, until she died suddenly, I think in childbirth, when Custine was in his 30's. After that he came about half way out of the closet, supposedly propositioned an army officer, and got stripped, beaten up and left for dead beside the road by the officer and some of his buddies. (Sound familiar?) It became the talk of Paris. After that he was all the way "out" and never tried to go back in. Eventually, he was lucky enough to find a permanent partner, an Englishman named Edward with whom he lived for thirty years. Custine became famous for a book of thoughtful and perceptive travel "letters" he wrote from Russia. Custine also wrote a very perceptive letter to Chopin after Chopin's "secret" engagement fell apart, and Chopin quietly fell apart along with it, very delicately offering to lend him a place to stay, or money to go to a spa, in order to deal with his "spiritual" trouble and recover his health. Chopin didn't take him up on it but was touched by his kindness enough to keep the letter. Later Chopin and Delacoix and a couple of other friends did spend a week with him and had a blast playing everything from pool to the piano in the evenings and riding donkeys by day.

Gay pianists? What will they think of next. But if gay men are drawn to the arts, the composers should be even gayer, shouldn't they? We all know that Tchaykowsky was a friend of Dorohty's, but who else? Rumors are that Beethoven and Chopin were gay, and someone also mentioned Grieg one time. Whaddaya think?(By the way, the info-mobile for gay lifestyles will be in your neighborhood tommorrow morning. It is easily identified by its license plates that read: RU12)

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Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Chopin wasn't gay. He definitely liked women. He might be been bisexual however, as he did appear to have been attracted to one of his male friends as a teenager. There is no indication that he ever experimented. ( He was a good Catholic boy after all. Maybe today who knows?) There is evidence of heterosexual sexual experience, and even of frustration in the case of George Sand. She used the excuse that he was too frail to engage in sex to cut him off when she got tired of him, long before he was willing to concede the same thing.

She was short and plump, not beautiful but attractive enough with beautiful black hair and eyes. (Chopin must've been attracted tobrunettes as his once upon a time fiancee had been part Italian and had the same coloring.) Despite her ocassional sartorial eccentricities she was demure in manner and had a soft voice. She definitely showed her feminine side to Chopin. He actually bought cloth for her dresses. He never called her George, but always "Aurora," his version of her given name Aurore, or translated "Dawn" into Polish and called her that. Liszt who knew them both well, wrote that the thing that bonded them, and ultimately led to their rupture was the fact that (and I paraphrase, Lizst was much more florid) "that Chopin idealized her, and she idealized herself."Sand herself once said that "what lies between a man and a woman is known only to they themselves." That was said earlier in reference to her affair with Musset but could apply to that with Chopin as well. What drew them together is obscured by the smoke screen George threw up after the break up when everyone was feeling sorry for Chopin and George was trying desperately to put herself in the right. What I do know is that they were both extremely intelligent, and both had a good sense of humor, probably similar. She was quite musical herself and probably a more thoughtful and appreciative critic of his music than most of the nonprofessionals he associated with. He was frail and in need of care, she was strong and in need of someone to care for. It was a case of opposites attracting and finding enough likenesses to stay together for ten years. She liked him well enough to keep him around even after she had tired of him as a lover. He loved her enough to stay around on any terms she might dictate.

To a large extent, this is a cultural problem ("problem" in the intellectual sense, of "something to puzzle out or solve.") Western males, or more particularly Americans, tend to be less concerned with the arts and less aesthetically sensitive than others. Educated Japanese males, for instance, are far more sensitive to aesthetic qualities in their music, graphic arts, pottery, etc., things many American males would not admit to responding to, even if they might want to.

Example: I'm a pathologist. My cousin Juel* asked me once, "When you're cutting up a brain, do you ever wonder about all the thoughts it had, the feelings it experienced?" "Nope."

But then I thought to myself, "Of course you do, you just don't talk about it." I suppose one might regard this is some kind of cultural straitjacket. I'd respond to that with, "And what good would talking about it do?"

Example: I'm a pathologist. My cousin Juel* asked me once, "When you're cutting up a brain, do you ever wonder about all the thoughts it had, the feelings it experienced?" "Nope."

But then I thought to myself, "Of course you do, you just don't talk about it." I suppose one might regard this is some kind of cultural straitjacket. I'd respond to that with, "And what good would talking about it do?"

So my brooding, taciturn black Irish Dad, the one time gunner, stevedore, land surveyor, and engineer grows more than fifty varieties of camillias even though he is color blind, just because he likes the shapes.

I've been around plenty of pathologists when they were grossing. The female one ARE far more likely to talk about the thoughts of a brain than the male ones. The male ones are more likely to joke.

I think that artists and musicians care more about their art then they do someones sexual preference. The fine arts and music are very emotional, and take much of someone's soul to bring out. Therefore, there is more focus on the beauty of the arts rather than the other aspects of life.

The reason why I say this is that both of my parents went to art school, and a number of their friends are openly gay. They are accepted as friends just like other so-called straight people.

I was brought up to accept them as people, and what they can do as artists, rather than whom they sleep with.