No one said that, it was on what I was basing why I thought moving wasn't a good response because they aren't cutting him out of their lives. I think it sends the message that if he pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it and then he can get what he wants. Obviously we disagree.

The bolded assumes he wants them to move out.

Based on the OP, I don't know if that's what he wants or not. Maybe he wants renovations that he doesn't have to do and a live in "caretaker" while only paying half the mortgage.

OP - I agree with Zilla. Move out (if possible). You don't need this stress in your life.

No, it doesn't, it assumes he gets what he wants regardless of what that is because they are unwilling to confront the problem and instead figuratively run away from it.

I respectfully disagree.

With which part? About what the phrase assumes or that I don't think they should move out?

At a certain point, who cares if he "gets what he wants" as long as the OP gets herself a more pleasant living environment? If leaving (after making sure her and her DH's finances are taken care of and absolving themselves of responsibility for the house) is the best solution for her, I don't think it matters even a little bit if it means letting the BIL think he's won. It is not her responsibility to teach him a lesson or make him see reason.

At a certain point, who cares if he "gets what he wants" as long as the OP gets herself a more pleasant living environment? If leaving (after making sure her and her DH's finances are taken care of and absolving themselves of responsibility for the house) is the best solution for her, I don't think it matters even a little bit if it means letting the BIL think he's won. It is not her responsibility to teach him a lesson or make him see reason.

No, it's not, but if she wants peace in the future, I think now is the time to stand her ground. It is, IMO, either stand her ground now or keep running forever because BIL will not stop here. He's not going to run all over her once and then not attempt it again. This isn't a one time deal. She can nip it in the bud now or let it grow out of hand by ignoring it. It's not about him or her winning, it's about letting BIL know now that his behavior is unacceptable.

No one said that, it was on what I was basing why I thought moving wasn't a good response because they aren't cutting him out of their lives. I think it sends the message that if he pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it and then he can get what he wants. Obviously we disagree.

The bolded assumes he wants them to move out.

Based on the OP, I don't know if that's what he wants or not. Maybe he wants renovations that he doesn't have to do and a live in "caretaker" while only paying half the mortgage.

OP - I agree with Zilla. Move out (if possible). You don't need this stress in your life.

No, it doesn't, it assumes he gets what he wants regardless of what that is because they are unwilling to confront the problem and instead figuratively run away from it.

So what? The OP wants her issues solved, I doubt she's sitting there trying to figure out how not to let BIL win at the same time.

Who cares if BIL interprets that as a message that if he 'pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it', that may or may not be true in the future.

I believe you are quite young, once you have some varied life experiences under your belt you'll understand why many of us are advocating moving - sometimes the easy way IS the best way and learning not to care what the other party thinks is very empowering.

At a certain point, who cares if he "gets what he wants" as long as the OP gets herself a more pleasant living environment? If leaving (after making sure her and her DH's finances are taken care of and absolving themselves of responsibility for the house) is the best solution for her, I don't think it matters even a little bit if it means letting the BIL think he's won. It is not her responsibility to teach him a lesson or make him see reason.

No, it's not, but if she wants peace in the future, I think now is the time to stand her ground. It is, IMO, either stand her ground now or keep running forever because BIL will not stop here. He's not going to run all over her once and then not attempt it again. This isn't a one time deal. She can nip it in the bud now or let it grow out of hand by ignoring it. It's not about him or her winning, it's about letting BIL know now that his behavior is unacceptable.

I don't think that that is necessarily the case. Living in a shared house is a lot different then most other cases. I would have no problems demanding extra accommodations in a house I am paying 1/2 the mortgage for. But I would never think of making those types of requests in any other situation.

No one said that, it was on what I was basing why I thought moving wasn't a good response because they aren't cutting him out of their lives. I think it sends the message that if he pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it and then he can get what he wants. Obviously we disagree.

The bolded assumes he wants them to move out.

Based on the OP, I don't know if that's what he wants or not. Maybe he wants renovations that he doesn't have to do and a live in "caretaker" while only paying half the mortgage.

OP - I agree with Zilla. Move out (if possible). You don't need this stress in your life.

No, it doesn't, it assumes he gets what he wants regardless of what that is because they are unwilling to confront the problem and instead figuratively run away from it.

So what? The OP wants her issues solved, I doubt she's sitting there trying to figure out how not to let BIL win at the same time.

Who cares if BIL interprets that as a message that if he 'pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it', that may or may not be true in the future.

I believe you are quite young, once you have some varied life experiences under your belt you'll understand why many of us are advocating moving - sometimes the easy way IS the best way and learning not to care what the other party thinks is very empowering.

It has nothing to do with letting BIL "win" and everything to do with setting the precedent for the future. It is important how BIL interprets the message because that shows him how we his allowed to behave in future interactions regarding trying to get what he wants. If she runs away from this unreasonable request, why won't she do the same in the future? Thus BIL thinks he can get what he wants if he just pushes hard enough regardless of how unreasonable he may be. It doesn't matter what BIL thinks about OP insofar as her denying him what he wants, but it does matter what he thinks about how she stands up to him. If she doesn't, he will think he can walk all over her. Why let this fester rather than nip it in the bud now?

Feel free to never make presumptions about my experiences and age again. You'll save yourself the trouble of being incredibly insulting.

wolfie, the thing is, I don't think you would be making unreasonable requests regardless. The problem is that BIL is making an unreasonable one.

Re: "prescedent for the future", if she's no longer living under a roof that he co-owns, that solves a heck of a lot of problems. For example, it's a great deal easier to tell someone "Um, no, I don't want you to come over" if they don't actually own half of the place you're living.

wolfie, the thing is, I don't think you would be making unreasonable requests regardless. The problem is that BIL is making an unreasonable one.

I live by myself right now and am thinking of getting a roommate. The thing that is causing me to second guess that is the freedom I would have to give up. I love being able to go wherever I want in whatever I want without worrying about other people. Did I forget to put the leftovers in the fridge? I can just run into the kitchen in my bathrobe and take care of it. I don't need to worry about closing doors when I am changing. I can just walk into any room I want without having to worry if someone else is changing in there. If I get a roommate I have to make adjustments - and those aren't easy.

I see the BIL being in the same situation. For years this was effectively his house that he could use however he wanted to. Now it isn't but old habits are hard to break - especially if it wasn't his idea to do this and he didn't really want to but (since he isn't the sole owner) he didn't have a choice.

Will leaving make BIL think the OP is a doormat? I don't know... but if it puts the OP in a better situation I don't see the problem with that. It sounds like she only has contact with the BIL right now cause he owns half her house - if she is in a different living situation she could control when and how she sees him so that won't ever be an issue.

My sister was in a bullying situation in college and had the option of moving to a different dorm. My mom didn't want her to because "that would let the other people win". My sister did it anyway and she ended up being much much happier for the last half of the year. Did the bullies gloat and thing my sister was a pushover? Maybe - i don't know - there was no further contact - but considering her stress was way down and her happiness way up I think that was a small price to pay.

This sounds complicated....several owners, two paying the mortgage, one living in full time, another accustomed to using it, one paying for renovations, and so on. As far as politely working through this issue, what does your written agreement among all of the owners say are the rules for use?

So what? The OP wants her issues solved, I doubt she's sitting there trying to figure out how not to let BIL win at the same time.

Who cares if BIL interprets that as a message that if he 'pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it', that may or may not be true in the future.

I believe you are quite young, once you have some varied life experiences under your belt you'll understand why many of us are advocating moving - sometimes the easy way IS the best way and learning not to care what the other party thinks is very empowering.

It has nothing to do with letting BIL "win" and everything to do with setting the precedent for the future. It is important how BIL interprets the message because that shows him how we his allowed to behave in future interactions regarding trying to get what he wants. If she runs away from this unreasonable request, why won't she do the same in the future? Thus BIL thinks he can get what he wants if he just pushes hard enough regardless of how unreasonable he may be. It doesn't matter what BIL thinks about OP insofar as her denying him what he wants, but it does matter what he thinks about how she stands up to him. If she doesn't, he will think he can walk all over her. Why let this fester rather than nip it in the bud now?

Feel free to never make presumptions about my experiences and age again. You'll save yourself the trouble of being incredibly insulting.

wolfie, the thing is, I don't think you would be making unreasonable requests regardless. The problem is that BIL is making an unreasonable one.

Oh when you said '...Further, I wouldn't give up a house I liked simply because someone else wanted to be a jerk. Again, that means he thinks he won and his behavior is OK.' I thought you meant it.

There is nothing insulting about recognising that someone does not have the years or experience that others do, I'm surprised that you find it so. By the way, I didn't presume your age, it's in your profile.

So what? The OP wants her issues solved, I doubt she's sitting there trying to figure out how not to let BIL win at the same time.

Who cares if BIL interprets that as a message that if he 'pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it', that may or may not be true in the future.

I believe you are quite young, once you have some varied life experiences under your belt you'll understand why many of us are advocating moving - sometimes the easy way IS the best way and learning not to care what the other party thinks is very empowering.

It has nothing to do with letting BIL "win" and everything to do with setting the precedent for the future. It is important how BIL interprets the message because that shows him how we his allowed to behave in future interactions regarding trying to get what he wants. If she runs away from this unreasonable request, why won't she do the same in the future? Thus BIL thinks he can get what he wants if he just pushes hard enough regardless of how unreasonable he may be. It doesn't matter what BIL thinks about OP insofar as her denying him what he wants, but it does matter what he thinks about how she stands up to him. If she doesn't, he will think he can walk all over her. Why let this fester rather than nip it in the bud now?

Feel free to never make presumptions about my experiences and age again. You'll save yourself the trouble of being incredibly insulting.

wolfie, the thing is, I don't think you would be making unreasonable requests regardless. The problem is that BIL is making an unreasonable one.

Oh when you said '...Further, I wouldn't give up a house I liked simply because someone else wanted to be a jerk. Again, that means he thinks he won and his behavior is OK.' I thought you meant it.

There is nothing insulting about recognising that someone does not have the years or experience that others do, I'm surprised that you find it so. By the way, I didn't presume your age, it's in your profile.

The OP figuring out a way to not let BIL win and him thinking he won are different things to me. The first would mean she would have to think he would be winning; the second is that he would have to think he would be winning. BIL thinks he won if he gets her out of his hair and gets to do what he wants when he wants. That is about what I was talking, not about the OP having to make sure he doesn't "win".

You presumed that my age inhibits my experience. That is insulting because you're presuming that any and everything I have gone through means I don't meet your standards of experience to know what I'm talking about. You're in essence saying that I don't know any better because of my age and that makes my opinion inferior to yours because you're older and have more experience. It's like patting me on the head and saying, "There, there, child. Bless your heart." I am adult, please treat me like one.

No one said that, it was on what I was basing why I thought moving wasn't a good response because they aren't cutting him out of their lives. I think it sends the message that if he pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it and then he can get what he wants. Obviously we disagree.

The bolded assumes he wants them to move out.

Based on the OP, I don't know if that's what he wants or not. Maybe he wants renovations that he doesn't have to do and a live in "caretaker" while only paying half the mortgage.

OP - I agree with Zilla. Move out (if possible). You don't need this stress in your life.

No, it doesn't, it assumes he gets what he wants regardless of what that is because they are unwilling to confront the problem and instead figuratively run away from it.

So what? The OP wants her issues solved, I doubt she's sitting there trying to figure out how not to let BIL win at the same time.

Who cares if BIL interprets that as a message that if he 'pushes hard enough, they'll just run away from it and never confront it', that may or may not be true in the future.

I believe you are quite young, once you have some varied life experiences under your belt you'll understand why many of us are advocating moving - sometimes the easy way IS the best way and learning not to care what the other party thinks is very empowering.

It has nothing to do with letting BIL "win" and everything to do with setting the precedent for the future. It is important how BIL interprets the message because that shows him how we his allowed to behave in future interactions regarding trying to get what he wants. If she runs away from this unreasonable request, why won't she do the same in the future? Thus BIL thinks he can get what he wants if he just pushes hard enough regardless of how unreasonable he may be. It doesn't matter what BIL thinks about OP insofar as her denying him what he wants, but it does matter what he thinks about how she stands up to him. If she doesn't, he will think he can walk all over her. Why let this fester rather than nip it in the bud now?

Feel free to never make presumptions about my experiences and age again. You'll save yourself the trouble of being incredibly insulting.

wolfie, the thing is, I don't think you would be making unreasonable requests regardless. The problem is that BIL is making an unreasonable one.

MM if you haven't before watch/read the summary of "war of the roses". Owing a home or business together is different then almost any other situation. "avoiding cohabiting with people you can't stand" is a really good rule to follow. I'd say its almost like divorcing a person you have a child with; You wouldn't stay married to someone you can't stand because asking for a divorce would be seen as letting them win and they will be a pain at the child's next birthday.

BTW op's BIL may not think he is the unreasonable one. How long does he have to deal with his SIL on ever vacation? he may be using more space but she's using more time. If it was never discussed everyone could have different ideas of what is reasonable. This is why so many people suggest at least discussing ever possible detail before living together.

I went back and read OP previous posts. It looks like the issues have been building but that OP also made some assumptions ie the master bedroom would be hers once completed. I'm not saying op having the master bedroom wasn't reasonable but BIL, SIL and FIL may not agree. It sounds like SIL and BIL are pretty hard to live with and that a lot of details we not worked out in advance and/or left way too vague.

The OP figuring out a way to not let BIL win and him thinking he won are different things to me. The first would mean she would have to think he would be winning; the second is that he would have to think he would be winning. BIL thinks he won if he gets her out of his hair and gets to do what he wants when he wants. That is about what I was talking, not about the OP having to make sure he doesn't "win".

You presumed that my age inhibits my experience. That is insulting because you're presuming that any and everything I have gone through means I don't meet your standards of experience to know what I'm talking about. You're in essence saying that I don't know any better because of my age and that makes my opinion inferior to yours because you're older and have more experience. It's like patting me on the head and saying, "There, there, child. Bless your heart." I am adult, please treat me like one.[/quote]

No I didn't, please don't tell me what I'm thinking. It's a simple fact of life that the more years you have the more experiences you have.