Note, he is holding her hand and some assistant (or Jim Cantore ;)is pushing her wheelchair.

To me, it just seems wrong that Mr. Winters is not pushing her wheelchair, but allowing someone else that privilege.

Perhaps she wants to hold his hand, I don't know. It just looks awkward.

Agree?

Disagree?

Since this is in "Etiquette of the Rich and Famous" I just have to ask: who do you think is being rude here, and to whom?

I look at that photo and assume that this arrangement was what Ms. Taylor and her fiance wanted, thus neither of them is being rude to the other. Nor is it rude to a hired assistant to expect him to do his job, which presumably includes pushing her chair. And I can't think of any way that her preference for having an assistant rather than her fiance push her chair could possibly be rude to the general public.

Since this is in "Etiquette of the Rich and Famous" I just have to ask: who do you think is being rude here, and to whom?

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Etiquette is not just about rude vs not rude, it's about respect vs disrespect. I think Mr. Winters is not showing proper respect to Ms. Taylor by not pushing her wheelchair, although you certainly welcome to disagree with me. Indeed, you have apparently no compunctions about doing so.

Some wheelchair users consider their wheelchair to be part of their "person", not to be touched without their permission. Although, with hindsight, one could conclude that Ms. Taylor does not consider herself to be a part of that demographic.

Admittedly, my mother uses a wheelchair in public and I can't imagine delegating her care to anyone else while I'm present. Her comfort and convenience are a priority, but by ensuring these, I am showing her respect the respect she is due.

Mr. Nutrax uses a wheelchair. When he first became disabled, he had paid caretakers. Whenever we went out, it was the caretaker's job to push him. That way, I could concentrate on being with him, not having to have my attention constantly diverted by looking for cracks in the sidewalk or toddlers running in front of us. I could talk to his face, instead of the back of his head. I looked at it as delegating the less important physical tasks, so I could better do the more important emotional and companionship support.

Now, I do the pushing. I rather miss being able to just be his companion instead of his caregiver and companion. And he finds it somewhat humiliating that his wife has to push him and care for him, and he can't reciprocate. With a paid caretaker, he could look at it as a business deal that he had chosen to make for his own comfort.

Since this is in "Etiquette of the Rich and Famous" I just have to ask: who do you think is being rude here, and to whom?

Etiquette is not just about rude vs not rude, it's about respect vs disrespect. I think Mr. Winters is not showing proper respect to Ms. Taylor by not pushing her wheelchair, although you certainly welcome to disagree with me. Indeed, you have apparently no compunctions about doing so.

Some wheelchair users consider their wheelchair to be part of their "person", not to be touched without their permission. Although, with hindsight, one could conclude that Ms. Taylor does not consider herself to be a part of that demographic.

Admittedly, my mother uses a wheelchair in public and I can't imagine delegating her care to anyone else while I'm present. Her comfort and convenience are a priority, but by ensuring these, I am showing her respect the respect she is due.

But it's still respect/disrespect between specific people. How in the world could your statement "Mr Winters is not showing proper respect to Ms. Taylor by not pushing her wheelchair" be true if she wanted him with her holding her hand? And in fact, if she had made the request "please walk with me and let my very well-paid assistant push," wouldn't it have been disrespectful of him to insist on pushing simply because someone had decided it was more "technically respectful"?

Etiquette is not just about rude vs not rude, it's about respect vs disrespect. I think Mr. Winters is not showing proper respect to Ms. Taylor by not pushing her wheelchair, although you certainly welcome to disagree with me. Indeed, you have apparently no compunctions about doing so.

Well, first, I completely disagree with the notion that etiquette is concerned with anything other than politeness, manners, and decorum. If there are things that fall into the category of 'respect' that somehow don't fall into one of those categories, I don't think etiquette has a great deal to say about it. Thought I honestly can't thing of anything off the top of my head that is objectively, categorically disrespectful that doesn't also implicate one of those categories.

Additionally, I sincerely doubt that Mr. Winters is the one unilaterally making the decision about who pushes Ms. Taylor's wheelchair. Rather, I would think that this would be Ms. Taylor's decision. Therefore, if SHE has decided that she would prefer to have a paid attendant push her wheelchair, and Mr. Winter's walk beside her, then THAT is what is showing her respect, and nothing else.

It's great that you feel that you must be the one to push your mother's wheelchair when you are present. But this has absolutely zero to do with anyone else on the planet. On the question of whether it is more respectful to Ms. Taylor to push her wheelchair or walk beside her, your opinion, my opinion, EhellDame's opinion, and Ms. Manner's opinion matter not one iota. The ONLY opinion that matters, even a whit, is that of Ms. Taylor. And it would appear, absence evidence to the contrary, that Ms. Taylor considers the more respectful and more preferable course of action to be for Mr. Winters to walk beside her, at least in this particular circumstance.

Some wheelchair users consider their wheelchair to be part of their "person", not to be touched without their permission. Although, with hindsight, one could conclude that Ms. Taylor does not consider herself to be a part of that demographic.

I don't understand what that has to do with anything. I would imagine that, if Ms Taylor has an assistant who pushes her wheelchair, that he has her permission to touch the wheelchair.

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Admittedly, my mother uses a wheelchair in public and I can't imagine delegating her care to anyone else while I'm present. Her comfort and convenience are a priority, but by ensuring these, I am showing her respect the respect she is due.

So imagine for a moment the following scenario. What if your mother told you one day that she wanted you to walk next to her while someone else pushed her wheelchair? Would you refuse? And what if you didn't refuse, and someone called you disrespectful towards your mother for not pushing her chair? Wouldn't you be hurt? Celebrities have feelings, too. Let's give them a break. It is their decision.

It might very much be at Taylor's request that her fiancÚ walks next to her. If they, as a couple, prefer this arrangement, why not?

Actually, even if we wanted to say something about respect vs. disrespect here, it looks to me that by walking beside her, he is respecting her wishes.

May I ask the OP what gives her the idea that Liz Taylor wants her fiance pushing the wheelchair and he's refusing to do so, therefore showing her disrespect?

Because that would be the only reason anyone could think there's something wrong here. And I cannot figure out what would make anyone think that from a photo of three people looking content in their positions.

I just noticed that in the OP, pushing the wheelchair is described as a "privilege." Ms. Taylor and her companion may not view it that way. Mr. Nutrax and I do not. We discussed this thread and agreed that my pushing his chair is a kindness, in that I am performing a chore that is difficult for him to do, but it is not a sign of disrespect to allow someone else to perform the kindness. He does not expect me to insist that only I can do the job, not is he insulted if I decline and suggest that someone else do it.

In fact, if I were to insist that I was the only one who could properly push the chair, he would view me as controlling, not respectful.

As someone else mentioned, Ms. Taylor is wealthy. She is no doubt accustomed to, and comfortable with, paid staff who see to her physical well-being and comfort. She might feel that she would not be respectful of her companion to ask him to do this.

He also may have tried to push her and been remarkably unsuccessful, so they agreed he shouldn't do it any more. Pushing a chair is not easy. You need to learn special techniques for navigating things like curbs, thresholds, or railroad tracks. There are also special techniques for assisting people in & out of a chair. Perhaps he just doesn't have the knack.

In any case, it is their decision that matters, not anyone's speculation. As a Jane Austen hero said when the heroine worried about an engaged couple's relationship to each other: "Their hearts are open to each other, as neither heart can be to you; they know exactly what is required and what can be borne."

Am I the only one looking at the photo and thinking that if DF walks holding her hand like that he probably has some back pain of his own?

I think that photo is not very clear . He could be moving up to get a door and stopping briefly to take her hand, he could be walking beside her at her request - we just don't know. If that posture is not a momentary thing then he definitely doesn't seem to be taking the easy way out.

As a Jane Austen hero said when the heroine worried about an engaged couple's rel@tionship to each other: "Their hearts are open to each other, as neither heart can be to you; they know exactly what is required and what can be borne."

I'm thinking her health care helper has probably been with her a heckuva lot longer than her latest fiance. They may have a pretty good system going, and he knows just what kind of help to offer her and when. The new fiance probably isn't as efficient. It's better for him to walk beside her. Maybe even safer.

Some wheelchair users consider their wheelchair to be part of their "person", not to be touched without their permission. Although, with hindsight, one could conclude that Ms. Taylor does not consider herself to be a part of that demographic.

This part of the quote confuses me. I'm reading it as either saying (1) the fiance isn't being respectful by not touching her person, or (2) the person pushing the wheelchair is being disrespectful by touching her person/chair without permission. But (1) doesn't make any sense, because he's holding her hand, which is more intimate than touching her chair. Plus as her fiance, he'd certainly have permission to do either! And (2) would only make sense if the person just ran up and grabbed the wheelchair without her permission, when he's most likely a paid assistant doing his job. What am I missing here?

Some wheelchair users consider their wheelchair to be part of their "person", not to be touched without their permission. Although, with hindsight, one could conclude that Ms. Taylor does not consider herself to be a part of that demographic.

This part of the quote confuses me. I'm reading it as either saying (1) the fiance isn't being respectful by not touching her person, or (2) the person pushing the wheelchair is being disrespectful by touching her person/chair without permission. But (1) doesn't make any sense, because he's holding her hand, which is more intimate than touching her chair. Plus as her fiance, he'd certainly have permission to do either! And (2) would only make sense if the person just ran up and grabbed the wheelchair without her permission, when he's most likely a paid assistant doing his job. What am I missing here?

I was puzzled about that, too. Presumably the wheelchair-pusher is a paid aide/employee who of course would have permission to push it. We're not talking about a random stranger who suddenly decides that a wheelchair user wants to be moved somewhere.