Wow, LavosFast.
We will play Friday/Saturday (if Friday, at night.)
Same GMT but, he has an exam to study for, until Friday.

Hoping to donkplay Lavos in final ^_^

Edit:
Won in a good match.
Got a crit early but, didn't matter unless it had bulldoze. (Which is like less than one percent used, so I doubt it.)
He outplayed me for a good portion but, my sweeper plays no games.
Definetly one of the better matches I've played in a while.

Now I'd like to discuss a bit about this team. Remember anyone can contribute to this discussion, you do not have to have participated in the tournament. Some discussion topics I'd like for us to look at are:

- How effective is this particular style in the OU metagame?
- What makes Finchinator's team "stand out"
- Are there any weaknesses you can identify in the team?
- How are some ways the team can be improved within the parameter? (at least 3 Dragon types)
- How are some ways the team can be improved outside of the parameter but still along the guidelines? (2 or so Dragon types)

Just stating that, this was initially a Wetherless HO team, with Deoxys-D, over Garchomp. It was meant to test if a Spinblocker was required to use Weatherless HO (like Gengar) or, if it can viably preform in OU, with the risk of hazards being blown away.

The Terrakion set was what was meant to sweep, or the focus if my team, and it did its job well, whenever I needed it. It is a WallBreaker that abuses its amazing stabs and ability to grab free turns. Also, it gives all offensive teams hell, since 99.9% of them lack a sufficient switch in, that isn't outspeed and 2hkod or, almost oHkod / OHKOd when it comes in. Adamant life orb hits almost as hard as CB Terrakion, believe it or not.

However, my team is still weak to a few common threats, although it can deal with them offensively, it cannot sponge their Attaks, such as: Timid / +Speed Growth Venusuar (In Sun, obviously), Rock Polish Special Landorus (Latios isn't a great counter, especially with its switch in being predictable and HP ice easily 2HKOn), and Choice Banded Pokemon (this is very general, with good prediction, anything from Tyranitar, to Dragonite, Terrakion, Scizor, Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc. can give me hell. It is mostly a prediction game, to deal with them. It'd be the same with strong special attackers but, Dragons resist common rain teams hydros and thunders, and Magnezone tanks hurricanes (with no Torn-T, this is even easier.) Landorus being the one exception, as a special attacker.)

effective enough, but not in the top seven playstyles. dragon spam used to be really great in late bw1 and even early bw2, but with the advent of more steels and more scarfers it's becoming harder and harder to gain the upper hand by simply spamming outrage and draco meteor.

honestly, this is one of the most standard dragon spam teams you're going to find. the only really original or innovative moveset is the garchomp with fire blast, which ctc popularized, and then haban berry, which is interesting, but not necessarily that useful imo since specs draco meteor latios or cb outrage dnite is going to be ohko'ing you anyways. sash is better for rockschomp.

yeah. deoxys-d + bandtar basically means gg for this team. get rocks up and maybe a layer of spikes, trap and kill your only revenge killer in latios, sweep with something. options include your own latios, keldeo, breloom (get dnite out too for this one), and even gengar. really simple and effective way to demolish this team.

- How are some ways the team can be improved within the parameter? (at least 3 Dragon types)

Click to expand...

i would change garchomp's item to a focus sash, as previously mentioned, and also swap the two movesets of terrakion and latios; namely, change terrakion to a choice scarf set, and latios to a life orb set. this means that now your only reliable revenge killer isn't going to be huge pursuit bait and you can still have a utility life orb 'mon waiting in the wings to open holes or clean up late game.

- How are some ways the team can be improved outside of the parameter but still along the guidelines? (2 or so Dragon types)

Click to expand...

to me, garchomp really stands out as the pokemon that seems out of place on this team. sure, rocks are nice and all, but to me the team needs more than that in order to achieve success. replace it with deoxys-d, the best hazard setter in the game, and then make a few more changes: scarf latios ---> life orb gengar, life orb terrakion ---> choice scarf terrakion, cb dragonite ---> sub cm keldeo. now you're good against pretty much anything anyone can throw at you, besides all-out rain spam, which is broken anyways (refer to auto weather poll thread for reasons on this).

interestingly enough, finchinator posted above me while i was typing this out that his team originally had deo-d over chomper, so i guess that further proves my point.

once again, i'd like to congratulate finchinator on his success in this tournament. cool team, too.

I think the play style is very effective in the OU metagame. The cool thing about dragons is that they pair well against both Rain and Sun teams, resisting the boosted hits and using their massive Stab attacks to retaliate. Plus they do just as well against Sand, where their Fire-type attacks aren't neutered nor do they have to worry about Chlorophyll users.

The dragons all have tons of utility beyond being "strong Pokemon", Lati@s are probably the most popular response to Keldeo, besides maybe Jellicent. Salamenc and Dragonite fear little from Pokemon like Breloom. Things like that make it easy to fit multiples of the type onto a team without it feeling like you are compromising your team too badly. Its really just sugar on top of the cake that they tend just need to get past one or two Pokemon on a common team in order to absolutely destroy.

The thing that stand out for me on Finch's team is the Double Dance Terrakion. Its a less common set and definitely took me by surprise when it turned up in our game, plus it pairs really well with the rest of this Pokemon. Tearing down enemy steels for his Dragons.

Well, I made it to Round 4 of the OU tour, so I feel (somewhat) obliged to answer the questions brought up by Novaray.

How effective is this particular style in OU?

Well, I made it to #14 with The Shooting Star Project, which for all intents and purposes is a dragon spam team, so I can say that it's fairly effective. It's also one of the more fun styles to use, since dragon spam can just run through teams with brute force while maintaining a menacing offensive presence, forcing its opponent to more often than not take a defensive stance if they want to weather the attacks and even attempt to win against it. However, for all the praise I'm delivering to dragon spam, it still has quite a few problems. For one, faster sweepers (namely Stoutland, Terrakion, and Keldeo) can break past dragons using their powerful attacks, many of which can 2HKO without any hazard damage; in that same vein, if you opt not to use a Magnezone, Terrakion, or AGtran (TobesTran for those that haven't read Crazy Sunshine) on your dragon spam team, then Ferrothorn and other defensive steels (mainly Jirachi, Skarm, and Forretress) can and will give you hell.

What makes Finchinator's team "stand out"?

With all due respect for Finchinator, his team is pretty bog standard as far as dragon spam teams are concerned. His most unique member is Meeps, the Double Dance Terrakion, and even then, it's just another steel killer, and an effective one at that. SR + Fire Blast Garchomp is somewhat unique, but all it really did was substitute one move (Swords Dance, Fire Fang) for another (Stealth Rock, Fire Blast).

Are there any weaknesses you can identify in the team?

Deo-D + BandTar, as stated by Lavos earlier on. Mamoswine can deal a number to his team with its STAB moves if it comes in on a Magnezone locked into Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Fire. Weavile, while it may be uncommon, can actually break past his team once Scizor goes down and Magnezone takes one round of SR + 1 layer of Spikes damage. ESpeed Dragonite helps Finchinator beat Weavile though.

How are some ways the team can be improved within the parameter (at least 3 Dragon-types)?

Well, he could use Kyurem-B over Dragonite, but that's just exchanging priority in the form of ExtremeSpeed, extensive coverage, and Multiscale for greater numerical bulk (i.e. not factoring Multiscale into damage calcs) and power. Focus Sash and Yache Berry seem like better options than Haban Berry for Garchomp's item slot. Other than that, I've nothing.

How are some ways the team can be improved outside of the parameter, but still within the guidelines (two Dragon-types)?

He could opt to use a Heatran or Mamoswine over Garchomp. The former can trap steels with Magma Storm, beat Venusaur, and change the weather to Sunny Day, and the latter can revenge kill opposing dragons and Venusaur with Ice Shard while providing wall-breaking power with Earthquake. Both can lay SR as well. Lavos's changes also work well.