I kind of like that we invented the bike but don't know exactly how it works.

Number 12 on the second video - the moving rocks. I thought that had been explained. It's been years since I last heard or saw anything about them. One theory is that it's to do with heating and cooling. One side nearer the hot Sun expands more than the side in shadow. When it's night the expanded side contracts and pulls the cooler side with it. In this fashion they move around.

We could put together some ideas on conciousness. To me it's things like this :

Self awareness.Understanding our thoughts.Having an impact on the outside world either in a very small way or something large.Knowing we exist.Recognising when we are being communicated with and understanding (or not) it.Experience(s).

Science is the best way we have found to expand our island of knowledge. As it expands, our shoreline of questions gets larger. In the past, less was unknown 'cos we didn't know how to ask the questions. In the future we will know more but have even more questions that we haven't learnt to ask yet.

Science is not to know everything. It is a process to stop us fooling ourselves. It is a way of working out what questions to ask.

Posted November 26, 2014, 23:06:04 PM

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“I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.”

You really want to get existential on me. I'm trying to ground this conversation.

Are there any objective thoughts? Does maths exist in its own right or is it a construct of the human mind? Can we ever really "know" anything? If the human brain is a biological computer, then, in theory, any suitably complex Turing machine should be able to emulate human conscience.

There are quite possibly an infinite amount of planets. Only a finite number (1?) of these have life. Infinity divided by a finite number is as near to zero as makes no odds so anyone you may meet from time to time is just a figment of your imagination. (DNA)

Science is the (dreamt up?) method of testing the universe and asking the right questions (via trial and error) so as to not believe in opinion. Science CAN answer anything but will never be complete so can't answer EVERYTHING. As our knowledge base grows so does our understanding of our ignorance. Science is not a thing, it is a method.

Posted November 27, 2014, 21:32:41 PM

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“I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.”

Well I'm kind of messing with you Snowy and trying to put some original thoughts out there. Good post btw

So Science is a "method" dreamt up by the human mind, we agree that the mind exists and yes I stick to the dreamt up.

Thinking, thoughts, dreams are all part of the mind, who is to say what came from what bit ? Science can't answer that.

Scientists have often mentioned the "eureka" moment but can't explain how it happens, it would seem that there are parts of our minds that only the subconscious can explore, occasionally little bits of information get through to our consciousness. I believe Einstein is a prime example, ok I admit Einstein was a philosopher of science and not a scientist before you pick me up on that.

Anyway, science needs more eureka moments to answer some of the questions it still can't. Tiss all I'm saying.

Science evolved (and is still doing so) from like minded people who had solid ideas about describing the world and understanding what's in it. Sure the ideas have to come from somewhere, but like Snowy says and I agree; science is a method.

Science has taken hundreds, if not thousands, of years to develop to where it is now. It wasn't just dreamt up over night and is not some whimsical fantasy. The ideas are grounded by the things we record and observe in reality. And these things need to be demonstrable and proven to be accepted as what we see as true of the universe at that time.

I say at that time because things change and science doesn't always get it right. Things often get re-thought when new evidence comes to light. Just think of the Earth orbiting the Sun and not the other way around. Evidence is the watchword here.

But yes, the ideas have to come from somewhere, but the important distinction over mysticism is that those ideas cannot just be blindly accepted as fact - they have to earn it via thorough experimentation and other ways of proving that they are true.

Maybe some scientist woke up one morning after a particularly good dream that explained black holes. That's all very well and good, but it's not the dream itself that draws the truth. It's what he does with that idea. In other words; the dream is not the proof.

Science still has a lot of questions to answer though - but it has never claimed to explain it all. Mystics and the like can accept any old explanation and to be honest; they are the ones that have been dreaming things up and that can be a problem.