What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

I've lived in gang controlled neighborhoods and middle class neighborhoods and from what I saw, the kids being raised in gang infested areas don't have anywhere near the chance to avoid it like the middle class kids do.

What is 'crazy' changes. I had a friend who was shot in the face with a shotgun and I saw him later in the hospital. He was lucky, it was from far enough away and with birdshot, so he lived and didn't lose an eye. It was normal though, we all knew people who had been shot, killed, or had been doing the shooting at the opposing gangs.

When I moved up in the world I was living in a neighborhood where people got annoyed if a police helicopter made noise passing overhead on their way to some other area. The police calls were thefts at shopping centers(by out of towners) and rousting the homeless for the most part.

No Such Agency:I wouldn't be surprised f this were true, but depending on the definition of "mental illness", most humans have something going on. Anxiety, depression, obsessive thoughts, there are a lot of "mild" mental disorders that leave you mostly functional but not very contented in life.

As well, gang members have often grown up in fractured families, with financial desperation, abuse, witnessing murders or the aftermath near their homes, etc. They grow up in poor neighborhoods where there's no chance to honestly rise above poverty. Some grow up in what is essentially a war zone, complete with PTSD by the time they're adolescents.

In other words they are already growing up with a completely different set of rules than fuzzy middle-class America: Strength is survival. Defend your honor. Take before you are taken from. Couple those with deep-seated anger issues and drug use and ta-da! Insane behaviour.

Let's kick this up a notch, shall we. Take the environment of the average gang member. Even before birth, they are likely subjected to an in-utero environment that indicates a high level of external stressors. They are starting to learn the outside world is going to be difficult. This can prime the individual to be more reactive to potential stressors. Never mind the decreased likelihood of adequate nutrition or prenatal care.

Upon birth, the there are constant triggers to sympathetic activation. Parents aren't fully engaged (either due to parents' struggle with their own issues, work, etc.) This prevents the development of the frontal cortex, attachment to others, and the idea the world is a safe, benevolent, and fair place. Because their world is not. It is dangerous, and you can only rely on yourself. Due to the high levels of HPA axis and limbic actvation, the brain forms in a way that concentrates on immediate survival, with little thought to long term consequences. Hell, why bother thinking beyond a day or two, your environment is telling you you're not likely to survive it.

This amount fight or flight activation works in the short term, but can get overloaded. Think about what happens when you redline an engine for too long. It eventually breaks. You throw a rod, crack the block, warp the head. It may still function, but not as well. Kind of like depression and anxiety. You can still move, just not as well. So, you look for relief. Humans, being social animals, look for those we feel some connection to, in addition to those that can assist with survival. In a world where you've been prey, where you've been helpless, who wouldn't want to be a predator?

So, you join the gang. It doesn't necessarily provide a long term solution to your difficulties, but your environment has joined up with you genes to condition you to react. It's worked so far, why not keep going? So, you join the gang, with your hang ups and all, and it's ok, because it's an escape. And you're with your own kind, people who GET IT. They are you, so it's easy to identify. Looks great on the surface, but there's that bit of you that knows this is temporary, and can be lost at any time. So the sympathetic activation continues.

The further you get in, the worse it gets. You do things, see things. But you can't get out. These are your people. Contrary to what teabagging idiots think, lone wolves tend to die quickly. Not only do you have the same problems you had before, you have new ones. You are blocked, with no sense of control. You want that sense of agency. But....there is SOMETHING you can do. Your life is ultimately your own to give....and take.

Does this mean I condone these actions. Not in the least. But it provides some modicum of understanding, with which solutions can be developed. The solutions do not necessarily feel "right" or "morally correct" to which I say fark that. Reality doesn't work that way.

Smoking GNU:jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?

that condition and many more show the collective insanity of society as a whole. mercy killings would often be a kind and right thing to do for/to those who suffer. but no, those who could bring themselves to help would be charged by the law. good sense and sanity do not rule the world.

Lith:rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal. The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human. If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal. The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human. If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.