Ngakchok has several subdivisions centered around Meri practices.Semchok is divided into : 1. ZZNG proper (i.e. the Kagyu Korzhi), and 2. Nyamgyu.

As far as I know the expression "ZZ Kagyu" does not exist. Moreover, Kagyu Korzhi and Nyamgyu have line of transmission based on : 1. single transmission and 2. ordinary transmission (the contents are exactly the same, the difference being if you're meant to be a lineage holder or not).

When talking about ZZNG, one generally refers to the Kagyu Korzhi. Otherwise, one refers to the entire collection (of ngakchok+semchok) but this is highly unlikely to be done.

Ngakchok has several subdivisions centered around Meri practices.Semchok is divided into : 1. ZZNG proper (i.e. the Kagyu Korzhi), and 2. Nyamgyu.

As far as I know the expression "ZZ Kagyu" does not exist. Moreover, Kagyu Korzhi and Nyamgyu have line of transmission based on : 1. single transmission and 2. ordinary transmission (the contents are exactly the same, the difference being if you're meant to be a lineage holder or not).

When talking about ZZNG, one generally refers to the Kagyu Korzhi. Otherwise, one refers to the entire collection (of ngakchok+semchok) but this is highly unlikely to be done.

How much has been translated from the Semchok part of the ZZNG? And has the snyan rgyud rgyal ba'i phyag khrid been translated already?

Mutsok wrote:It's not because he does not agree with "presence" that he is critical against Norbu Rinpoche. After your attacks against JL, I bet the only person you had in mind was JL. Again, don't hide behind your username and have some courage.

Tashi delek,

Everybody thanks for the replies.

I see that JL does' t agree with the translation of presence regarding Rigpa? Did realise there is also difference between Awareness used for Rigpa in Bon and Knowledge used in ChNN' s translation of Rigpa.

There are persons here aboard who defend that JL has critics against the use of Awareness for Rigpa and that he does prefer the use of presence above the use of Awareness.

But it would be also interesting to know more about the other critics / other points of view, against ChNN. It will mean that there are some persons who are not on 1 line with his Teachings.

For me personal Rigpa is Awareness like prefered in Bon and Nyingma and not Knowledge like translated in ChNN' s DC.

Mutsog MarroKY

THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNEDIF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGEHE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MANWHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD

kalden yungdrung wrote:For me personal Rigpa is Awareness like prefered in Bon and Nyingma and not Knowledge like translated in ChNN' s DC.

Honestly, rig pa is just a word. You either understand what it means or you don't.

M

Then you don't translate ... you take it as it already is.

Sönam

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.- Longchen Rabjam -

kalden yungdrung wrote: Malcolm wrote:what is important is the meaning behind the words.

Tashi delek,

Seen in the light of study, different words can have different meanings.Seen in the light of practice the words are experienced in their (understood) meaning.

It is not for nothing i guess, that persons like JL, would have problems with the accepting of "presence".

Mutsog MarroKY

Because with a certain focus it sounds like a mind process ... with another focus it does'nt. But words in our different languages are charged with history and habits, so they could never answer the same way than the original one.

Sönam

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.- Longchen Rabjam -

kalden yungdrung wrote: Malcolm wrote:what is important is the meaning behind the words.

Tashi delek,

Seen in the light of study, different words can have different meanings.Seen in the light of practice the words are experienced in their (understood) meaning.

It is not for nothing i guess, that persons like JL, would have problems with the accepting of "presence".

Mutsog MarroKY

Because with a certain focus it sounds like a mind process ... with another focus it does'nt. But words in our different languages are charged with history and habits, so they could never answer the same way than the original one.

Sönam

Tashi delek,

Well the topic is not so difficult to understand e.g. the use of words to explain a certain meaning.The meaning is always reflected in the practice over and over again. But if in the theory for instance the visions would be explained as knowing them then the confusing factor would be for instance knowing them by the mind of karma.

I don' t agree with you, words have a precise meaning in every language. No is no in every language.

Mutsog MarroKY

THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNEDIF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGEHE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MANWHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD