I lay awake every night wondering why when I try to throw my discs on open holes, they don't travel very far. I throw low to maximize the flight, but I see "big D" players throwing orders of magnitude higher. When I throw higher, it only stalls quicker, so it's high AND weak...the two attributes I detest in a throw.

To be honest, this lack of any D does not affect my scoring significantly...I can shoot a great score without impressive distance. It'd be nice, though, to not be approaching from a hundred feet out of the other guy.

You mentioned 12 things are necessary in order to reach 450. I believe you listed four. I am a LONG way from 450 but I would really like a list of those 12 things (maybe in the order they should be developed through practice) and perhaps a brief description of each. I know you're a busy guy but this would be nice for a ton of people on the forum I would suspect.

To some degree, it's a waste of time. He's mentioned all the the stuff you need to do in the articles and we discuss it ad nauseum here, but until you understand the concepts and the points, seeing them won't help you. It's weird. I've been throwing for over 5 years and just this year it 'clicked'. Before, no matter how much I looked and talked and what not, nothing improved my form, my distance or my knowledge. Then one day, it all clicked and now I can't understand how it didn't make perfect sense. Once you understand the concept, then you can sort of see a bunch of things that would be necessary in order to achieve 450'+, and some of them are only going to be for the athletic since they require great timing or the natural gift of body flexibility or arm speed.

The thing that helped me was getting some 1x1 coaching and then watching what they did and asking questions about just about everything they did - then trying to replicate it. That made me look at what was happening and allowed it to click for me.

Well, I have struggled with distance for a while. I came in gung ho, got my discs all polished up, posted videos, and actually saw an increase in performance. I can throw from a standstill 270-300' consistently. Getting past this distance has been tough, mainly because my X step usually involves me losing my control over the throw.

Practice in a field everyday if you can, you will see the difference. Relaxing helps more than stressing, as the disc flies just as far if arent clenching up and is much less harsh on your body.

Learn how to throw from a standstill and work from there. I skipped this for a while but once my x step stopped giving me more distance I went back to this. It is amazing how far you can throw from a standstill and the accuracy one can get. Getting this down and understanding what is going on will help out a lot.

"I do believe the sum extent of the messiness, disarrangement, disorder, and dirtiness of your room is equal to that of your brain." Johnny Cash

if you aren't getting 340', there's something in your form that is fundamentally wrong.

going 450' requires like 7 body positions and 6 timing variables.

going 360' requires like 4 body positions and 2 timing variables.

going 330' requires like 3 body positions and 2 timing variables.

270' generally is indicative of 3 or less body positions, and 1 or less timing variables.

slow motion video and freeze frames are only useful for body positions. it takes a very keen eye to see timing variables, mainly because you have to know what you are looking for and most don't. this is why i constantly talk about looking at the similarities in pros forms.

seriously though, if people can't name at least 5 of the 7 body positions, they haven't been trying very hard. they're nothing special. if you go 350' chances are you have 1-5.

1. disc close to body during pull2. weight forward at release (this gets the nose down)3. shoulder rotation from away to forwards4. hip rotation from closed to open5. foot pivot6. wrist extension7. disc leaves from out in front of you

felixtibs wrote:Well, I have struggled with distance for a while. I came in gung ho, got my discs all polished up, posted videos, and actually saw an increase in performance. I can throw from a standstill 270-300' consistently. Getting past this distance has been tough, mainly because my X step usually involves me losing my control over the throw.

Practice in a field everyday if you can, you will see the difference. Relaxing helps more than stressing, as the disc flies just as far if arent clenching up and is much less harsh on your body.

I'd second this. Too many folks use the x-step without realizing what it adds to their throw. I found that when I used an x-step, I was stopping at my reach back with all my weight back and then transfering my weight forwards when I planted. The problem was everything came to a halt at the reach back - sort of like when you throw a ball in the air and at it's apex it stops. I was stopping half-way through my x-step. I've been working on it and have found a way to keep my momentum all the way through the x-step and it helps a lot. When I get it right, I get significant extra distance. The problem is that like felix, I tend to lose some of my form with the x-step (too much to focus on) and I don't pull as close to my body and get a slight swoop and nose up in my throw.

What helps you get that distance is increasing your power from the bottom up and your rotational speed. That'll help increase your arm speed some. Then it's just a matter of keeping that disc in tight to your chest the whole way through. If you're relaxed you'll get the "whip" motion. If you're tense or pulling with your arm from the reach back all the way through, then you just don't get the whipping motion, you get a throw.

Blake_T wrote:building from the hit back ensures footwork is meaningful.

What helps you get that distance is increasing your power from the bottom up and your rotational speed. That'll help increase your arm speed some.

arm speed is over-rated. the most important thing is that your arm is always moving faster than it was at a previous point.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (Blake). The intent of what you quoted from me is that if you use your hips and torso to rotate your arm speed will be faster than if you just pull your arm and not rotate your hips & torso.

I don't know what the best terminology would be for that action, but that "force" feels much more powerful.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (Blake). The intent of what you quoted from me is that if you use your hips and torso to rotate your arm speed will be faster than if you just pull your arm and not rotate your hips & torso.

I don't know what the best terminology would be for that action, but that "force" feels much more powerful.

it's part of a kinetic chain. its focus is not on raw speed, but on focused power and certain things that happen with uncoiling of the body, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (Blake). The intent of what you quoted from me is that if you use your hips and torso to rotate your arm speed will be faster than if you just pull your arm and not rotate your hips & torso.

I don't know what the best terminology would be for that action, but that "force" feels much more powerful.

it's part of a kinetic chain. its focus is not on raw speed, but on focused power and certain things that happen with uncoiling of the body, etc.