SSHS: He’s a ‘testy’ one

A reader writes: Here’s the situation — I have been going on dates with this guy for a few weeks. He was always great about the “so, see you soon?” conversation at the end of our dates, and we were hanging out a couple times a week. Then, out of nowhere he cancels plans, and is strangely unavailable for a few weeks. We were still Facebook chatting and texting every day, though. He had mentioned to me on our second date that he stopped seeing the last girl because she “freaked out” when he was unable to hang out for a few weeks. When we finally met up, he said something to the nature of, “I like to test the waters a little and see how girls react, so I make myself unavailable to see if the girl is able to handle it. I like my independence and don’t want to date a clinger”.

Is this normal?! I feel like it is strange, but then again I have heard of people ‘testing’ each other while dating. This guy is really nice and all, and we have fun together – but I feel like this might be a red flag that I shouldn’t ignore. At the same time – I don’t know what the normal range of ‘testing the waters’ is. Now that I am slowly approaching 30, it seems like everyone by this point has some baggage from past relationships that haunt them. I’m caught between running for the hills or feeling as though I’m overreacting.

She said: (Unrelated – The next date should always be set up before the date you’re on is over – no ‘see you soon?’ crap) I wish I knew what your response to that little “testing” line of his was. I’m daydreaming about what my response would have been. I think I’d say, “Do you always call grown women ‘girls’? — then I’d walk away. He really doesn’t deserve much more of a response than that.

On the other hand — maybe it’d be fun to gain the upper hand and make him the clinger.

If he wants to play games — play them right back. I mean, what do you have to lose? Make yourself physically and emotionally unavailable. Don’t answer his calls or texts right away. And when you do respond, do so stoically, short and to-the-point — but every now and then, pepper him with sweet, warmer responses. Keep him on his toes and put the ball in his court. Also, when he says things like the statement you provided above, roll your eyes, shake your head and laugh a little in his face. He needs to be knocked down a few pegs, it sounds like.

I think you play around with him for a little while and see what happens. If anything, it’d be entertaining for you. Important: just as long as you realize that not every man is like him and wouldn’t deserve that type of treatment.

He* said:This guy is a douche and you can tell him I said so. “I like to test the waters to see how a girl reacts…I like my independence and don’t date clingers.” How can he determine if someone is a clinger when heisn’t even making himself available to be clinged to? Is he aware that he is making no sense? I’ll wager he has no clue; on this and many other subjects.Do not make yourself available to this loser. If someone goes radio silent on you, go radio silent right back. Groveling and sending humiliating text messages in attempt to win back his attention is embarrassing and pathetic.

To answer your question, “is this normal?” No, it’s incredibly juvenile. Just because you are “slowly approaching 30” doesn’t mean you have to put up with this nonsense then rationalize it by saying “it seems like everyone by this point has some baggage.” I personally take issue with that generalization and you should erase it from your lexicon. It will only become a crutch while you involve yourself with jackasses like this guy. While you’re busy hanging around the luggage carousels some guys are walking out the front door with nothing more than a small carry on. I doubt you’ve even noticed. *Joe is the founder of Quijano Public Relations which provides communications and social media strategies for business and non-profits. Find Joe on the TU, on Facebook and Twitter or at www.quijanopr.com.

To submit a SSHS question/topic — shoot me an email at ARTalar@gmail.com

Yeah, agree w/ Joe.
“He had mentioned to me on our second date that he stopped seeing the last girl because she ‘freaked out’ when he was unable to hang out for a few weeks.”
Seriously??? For a few WEEKS? Red flag. If he requires weeks away from the gir- ahem – woman he’s in a relationship in, that’s not a relationship. If marriage/commitment is your endgame, you won’t win with him.

I completely disagree with Amanda. He is testing you which is the equivalent of playing games and is incredibly juvenile. You need to decide if you are willing to pass this test not knowing what other immature tests may be coming down the line or end things with him now. Playing games back is only being more childish than him (cause at least he is being upfront about it), will get you nowhere, and will probably get you badmouthed in the future. This is Smalbany, you don’t want to start things with another guy, have things going well, and then have him know this immature guy through a friend of a friend and find out you play games. It isn’t worth the “entertainment” of playing games back.

You don’t give these hypothetical guys in your scenario enough credit. In that same situation, I could imagine a guy saying, “Oh, she dated ___? Dude, that guy is such a (expletive). Hahaha” and they leave it at that.

Do guys get that deep into a woman’s relationship past? I don’t think so.

While I love Amanda’s wonderfully evil advice – I agree with Joe. Games give me a headache, and anyone who is playing them makes me tired, so I just don’t bother.

Everyone gets sucked into the games sometimes, and that’s fine. It’s also understandable if you just want to have a little fun. But honestly, if he was that into you, and prepared to treat you the way you deserve, he wouldn’t bother with the games or the tests. He’d want to be with you, plain and simple, and wouldn’t be afraid to show it.

If it is a friend of a friend then chances are he might not know what a douche this guy is. Plus, from the readers perspective he doesn’t sound like a total douche, just very immature in how he handles relationships so the guy might actually respect his opinion. Here’s a simple hypothetical:

Tom (showing Facebook picture on his phone to Mary): This is the girl I have been seeing the past couple weeks.

Mary: Oh my God, that is the girl my friend Barry used to date, he dumped her cause she started playing games so you better be careful.

Bang, just like that there are doubts in the mind of her new boyfriend that she plays games. It is so not worth the “entertainment” of playing games back, ever.

It’s all about perspective. He goes in with an open mind and he is very likely to interpret something very differently than if he goes in having been warned that the girl plays games. Something relatively innocent could be taken as playing games once that is what he has been warned about. If girls want to take your advice of playing games then go for it but don’t act surprised when a relationship ends unexpectedly. And I fully believe once you start playing games it becomes habitual.

I can’t believe this happens in relationships. If the couple wants to be together, be together! What’s all this “I need my space, I’m an independent person” crap? You’re not marrying the girl. The guy can’t spend any time with her for “several weeks??” That’s not space, that’s him pretending to be single.

I’m going with the “he’s just not that into you” route and agreeing with Joe. Dump him.

“And, if it ends unexpectedly, then it ends unexpectedly. But, what if a dose of his own medication is what he needs to realize he’s being a jerk?”

but Amanda, that just makes the girl the jerk too. no need to get down to his level. She could easily get the point across by saying “listen, i’m not a clinger, I have my own life, I need space too sometimes. but I have no need for drama or games.” and that way, she can go forward being treated as a WOMAN, not a GIRL who plays games.

Reader, it seems obvious that he’s not just seeing you. I’m not saying that’s wrong – it sounds like you haven’t been seeing him for very long, and I don’t know what your expectations are about seeing more than one person until you establish exclusivity. But if he can chat,Facebook, etc. but not hang out, then that’s probably what he’s up to.

Obviously that’s separate from him clearly being a DB, because only a DB would tell you he likes to ‘test’ women. Puke.

Why isn’t there more guys in this world like Joe? And if there are, why do we always run into the guys who the reader is talking about? Thanks Joe for commenting the way you did. It gives this woman hope that you guys do exist!

From a quote I read the other day…”Do you know the difference between just being involved and being committed? It’s like breakfast…the chicken was involved, the pig was committed.” Haha. I say drop this guy like a bad habit. Who has time/wants to play his foolish game. There’s plenty of guys out there who will put you first in their lives, sounds like this guy is selfish and never would, and you should settle for nothing less at this point in your life.

My simple advice … Don’t play games, and don’t be a part of his. I feel it is reasonable to assume that everyone comes to a relationship with a set of pre-conceived expectations based on past experience. IE] those Virgin Diaries’ freshmen think you’re supposed to kiss like a fish out of water. If you deem to call those expectations “baggage” then so be it. The thing is, games are meant to have willing participants. Anyone trying to rope you unknowingly into their game is a narcissistic clown whose first priority will ALWAYS be himself. Red flags be flyin’!

Too bad you couldn’t go back in time and respond to his “I like to test the waters a little and see how girls react, so I make myself unavailable to see if the girl is able to handle it” with “I don’t play games”.

Sometimes when people (usually guys) think too much about dating and what to do and what not to do, they end up saying stupid things like this guy did. You know like some guys really believe that “nice guys finish last”, which is basically the same as “she’s not that into you”.

The man needs a dose of medication, all right–and some therapy to go with it. It’s not up to the reader to provide the therapy in the form of a retaliatory game, though. Dump this chump and for God’s sake, honey, what the hell is this “slowly approaching 30 and everyone has baggage” crap? Unless he’s been divorced, Baby Boy doesn’t have “baggage” yet. I’ll bet he doesn’t know how bad it can really get sometimes.

It’s never a bad thing to give someone the benefit of the doubt. So, don’t beat yourself up for that — it means you’re a good person. Just don’t go crazy with giving away the benefit of the doubt. Because, then you’ll develop a savior complex and that’s how you wind up helping a man carry his baggage.

Don’t be so hard on yourself reader. With matters of the heart, we all tend to see hope, rather than reality. It tends to blur our vision. We all make mistakes, just vow to learn from them and make the right choice next time round.

Joe hit it out of the park, also remember, when you think “Red Flag” it is a Red flag. I disagree with Amanda’s take to “play with him”, why should his dumb act make the woman act like that also? Just keep it classy and move on. Never let someone determine how you behave.

In regards to being alone forever, when you stop looking, that’s when you’ll find it. Also, you’ll know it when it happens… and other vague/cruddy advice that doesn’t help a tiny bit when you’re feeling like crap after something that seemed to be working suddenly stopped.

I will say, however, that I am steadily becoming better at (not necessarily more comfortable with) the “move on” method that is often suggested to me when I “over think” dating situations. If you have to question it (or over think it), then move on. Good luck!

I agree with Joe. He is a douche! I can picture it, when you get married and he takes off for a few weeks and then comes back home. What happens when you confront him. He says “well you let me do this while we were dating.” No someone I would want to marry. Stop talking to him right away. So childish.

You don’t have to completely write this guy off automatically if there are things about him that you like… but definitely have a conversation as soon as you can along the lines of, “Hey, when you said XYZ it gave me some concerns…” Let him know that it’s not OK for him to ever ignore you instead of being up front an honest. See how receptive he is to hearing you out and figure out if you have the same relationship goals and take it from there. If asking for honesty is “too clingy” for him, then set Mr. Independence free.

And calling yourself “forever alone” is self defeating. Instead think of yourself as being available for someone better. Available is always (ALWAYS!!!) better than “settled for something less”.

I can’t believe the reader didn’t just dump the guy when he started cancelling plans and making himself unavailable for a few weeks. (Unless he was like an open heart surgeon and had to fly out of the country to perform emergency surgery to save the life of a 6 month old orphaned panda bear or something he should have some time for the reader..or some other reasonable excuse)

So dump him, or if you are feeling vindictive, mess with him like he was messing with you and then dump him. Maybe it will help him get over his “baggage”. Or maybe he doesn’t have baggage but was just using that as an excuse while he tested out the waters and dated someone else.

When someone is such a giver, they are naturally drawn to someone(s) who benefit from their giving nature. But, the savior complex comes in when they are unable to recognize who actually deserves their thoughtfulness and caring nature, and they wind up subjecting themselves to being mistreated and taken advantage of by people who are beyond repair and who will load them down with their baggage. Those with a savior complex are also more likely to not recognize the fact they should be on the receiving end of the same thoughtfulness they extend to others.

STOP reader, and as many of the posters have said RUN FAR AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN! This guy is a total douche, a game player, immature and self absorbed. 30 isn’t dead, you have many years ahead of you, and you should never ever lower your standards to his level!

Slowly approaching 30 doesn’t mean you have to deal with jerk offs! I am quickly approaching 40, and they have baggage too haha! But still not gonna deal with something THAT absurd! I agree with Joe….RUN! SAVE YOURSELF!!!!! 🙂 GOOD LUCK!

I “dated” someone just like this off-and-on for around two years. Could very well be the same guy, assuming you’re a local reader! Please move on from this man & don’t even waste any more time trying to analyze or justify his actions.

When will women ever learn? If a man wants to be with you, he will. Any man who plays games or figures out creative ways to break up with you is not the man you want to be with. Stop trying to understand them or let yourself go along with it because you think you love/like him. Go on to the next one. Desperation is not an attractive feature.

I hate this theory, let me “test” whether or not this person is a “clinger” by putting them in a situation that will leave them feeling vulnerable, confused and full of self doubt. Yep, that is someone I want to date. Someone who intentional tries to hurt my feelings and lead me on, just to see how I will act when he flips the script and pulls a disappearing act without notice or warning.

The fact that he occasionally likes his space isn’t the issue. If he was a decent guy he’d text or call, give you heads up, that he has a crazy week or is taking a chill week to reboot and make plans for a week or two out. That is perfectly acceptable, we all need time for ourselves. The issue is he is a douche bag and likes to play with woman’s emotions like they are an experiment in stability. Any normal woman, who had feelings for someone, would react poorly (by either over communicating or dismissing him all together). His loss.

well mands, id have to disagree, usually folks wonder why a girl is with a guy because usually the guy is a clearly a jerk and she deserves better, but when a guy is with a girl and they are wondering its usually because she is getting better than she had received up until that point!if she was maute enough shed realize that hes a jerk and shed go and find something better, and if he was mauture enough he’d realize hee’s being a jerk and he’d stop!

I agree with Joe. However, I love the idea of giving this idiot a taste of his own medicine, chances are it will be a waste. If you want to waste your time trying to fix a hopeless case than go Amanda’s route otherwise listen to Joe.

I’m not trying to be mean to Amanda, I’m just incessantly pointing out how she likes to deal with crap. I really think that if she hadn’t wasted her time with so many jerks, she’d be married to a wonderful person right now…and she’d have all wonderful friends. I do take this a little personally, because for years I had a really, really jerky associate. Everyone told me not to hang out with this person, and that this person was no good. However, I didn’t listen, and allowed myself to be abused and overstressed all of the time. Not having to deal with this person anymore after years and years of this is the best thing ever. Many of us have to deal with people who treat us badly during the day at work or whatever, but when that’s over, isn’t it best to spend your own time with people who treat you
nicely?

I hate when I come to the realization that what I do/say has more of an impact on other people than it does me. When I navigate away from these pages, my thoughts of them don’t go with me 99% of the time.

A. — Come on. No one even said you were being mean to me. In fact, no one besides me even addressed your comment re: me possibly having a savior complex.

But, for what it’s worth — your thoughts about what my life/love life “could” be seem to be more you projecting than anything else. I won’t even get into the “married to a wonderful person” part, because that’s just asinine.

Don’t respond to him again, with the exception of telling him its not going to work out, via text of course. He’ll be playing games 5 years down the road if you start a relationship that began that way. You both will, it will become a habit, one that will drive you crazy. He had his chance and he blew it. If your having doubts a month into dating imagine yourself years down the road. You deserve better and he needs a reality check.

It isn’t projecting. It isn’t just about you; there are a lot of young girls who frequent this blog and look up to you for advice. You’re kinda coaching the next generation.

On the surface, you just don’t seem like the type to have these problems you say you have. But, it is all probably fake, anyway…just for the entertainment value. I still can’t believe you actually would expect someone to take the advice you have written up there. It would be a good plot for a movie, though…Where of course, due to the clever woman, the guy sees the errors in his ways, and falls hopelessly in love. In real life, the guy probably keeps playing weird games until it all ends in a hurtful messy divorce.

I guess that one of my latest obsessions in life is why people put up with what they do. From small things to really big things…Why would someone waste time on a jerk? Why would someone stay married to a guy she knew was molesting young boys? Why would a woman have a restraining order against a guy, and then leave her baby with him…Then, baby ends up blind due to abuse from guy. I guess I should stop reading the newspaper altogether.

I agree with Joe…DB. Another immature guy hedging his bets…when guys find what they want, they want “it” regularly. We don’t take off for a period of time just to test you. A mature guy won’t risk some other guy, finding what he wants, unless we don’t want it…Get-it. Lastly, I would ask the “asker”…Do what to raise a man, or marry one? Usually once your kids are raised, they leave the nest. Do you want to be an empty-nester?

@ A. – you say friends tried to tell you for years to disassociate yourself from a jerk but didn’t listen. What you describe is another of life’s lessons and the only way to learn. You obviously see the error of your ways NOW, but couldn’t/didn’t for whatever reason back then and hopefully learned from it. Just as Amanda tells us her history/experiences, she shares them with us to teach us the LESSON in them. Having had such an experience as you described yourself, why would you even question Amanda’s life? You always seem to be digging at her and trying to ruffle her feathers for one reason or another.