THE CRANE POOL FORUM thecranepool.net (.com)

I really don't know what to expect now, as the Mets have been playing for months with really no backup outfielders. Is Randolph going to really try to play Floyd and Beltran as soon as possible? I hope not, and I thought it was plum foolish that Randolph sent him to first last night, as he was useless in the field, useless on the basepaths, unlikely to come to the plate again, and probably would have been severly hampered had he done so.

Putting him through all that pain, and risk of further hurting himself, was worth that?

I'm not a basher, I'm just not, but what does that say about Gerald Williams?

I'm expecting an outfield tonight of a jetlagged Diaz in right, an out-of-position Anderson in left and a past-expiration-date Williams in center.

cooby Aug 12 2005 10:24 AM

Sometimes, for a day or so, these ragtag outfields perform like heros.

That would give Beltran and Floyd some time to rest up (I'm with you, they need a few days off. Taking Floyd out or not was Willie's decision, maybe he knew something we don't, like Gerald Williams was sick. Plus maybe Cliffy wanted to gut it out in honor of Cameron)

Please Edgy, don't panic, I think all we lost long term is Cameron.

Edgy DC Aug 12 2005 10:28 AM

"Please Hammer, don't hurt him."

Not panicking, really. Just don't know what to expect. Beltran doesn't seem like he'll be much use in the near future. I'd rather see some callups than some more infielders in the outfield.

metirish Aug 12 2005 10:28 AM

Yeah I was surprised Floyd stayed in the game, especially with the obvious pain he was in, plus his history, but as Fran said Willie likes to push Cliff, still it was pointless.I have no idea what Williams position on the team is, part-time coach?.

Piazza and Wright to hit 3/4 tonight?

MFS62 Aug 12 2005 10:30 AM

Why don't we bring up Jeff Francoeur?Oh, wait. Never mind.

The Mets had Diaz at AAA and Milledge is getting ready at AA.

It must be written somewhere in some Holy Book or stone tablet that the Mets are not allowed to have more than one hitting prospect at each level per year in their organization.

When I read that during this season, the Braves (if that name isn't familliar to you, look at the top of the NL East standings) have started a lineup of entirely home grown talent, it makes me wonder what the Met Organization has been doing all this time.

Later

Edgy DC Aug 12 2005 10:32 AM

Strange place to be grinding that axe and licking that wound.

Elster88 Aug 12 2005 10:37 AM

Let Beltran take the rest of the year off. Next year is more important.

MFS62 Aug 12 2005 10:52 AM

Edgy DC wrote:Strange place to be grinding that axe and licking that wound.

Nope.The thread is about who would be filling in for the injured players.I'm saying that aside from Diaz, there ain't nobody else in the system ready to be brought up.And I'm continually frustrated by that.

Later

cooby Aug 12 2005 10:57 AM

We've got three very good and fairly young outfielders at the major league level; the odds that all three get seriously injured in one game were very low. I hope the Mets organization is concentrating more on other things at the minor league level, at this point in time anyway.

Edgy DC Aug 12 2005 11:10 AM

]I'm saying that aside from Diaz, there ain't nobody else in the system ready to be brought up.

Sure there is.

And there are more than one hitting prospect at other levels.

MFS62 Aug 12 2005 11:23 AM

EdgyWho are they?Are they prospects or retreads?And, if prospects, do you believe they are major league ready?

Later

Yancy Street Gang Aug 12 2005 11:29 AM

I don't think a team can be reasonably expected to have major-league ready prospects available at a moment's notice at every position.

A team that is fortunate enough to have a second big-league squad at AAA is probably going to trade off some of those young players to make the big league team stronger.

Rotblatt Aug 12 2005 11:32 AM

We have way more people ready in AAA than just Diaz. Are they likely to be impact players (as Diaz might be)? Probably not, but they're certainly capable of doing better than Woody/Cairo/Anderson/Offerman as starters.

In terms of OF's, Valent's got a .900 OPS after a terrible start, Redman's batting .320 with a .890 along with 5 SB/1 CS, and Pagan's got a mediocre .724, but he's been hitting quite well lately.

For 1st, we've got Valent, and Daubach's got a 1.026 OPS and wasn't really given a fair shake in the bigs.

If we had the balls to cut Matsui loose and start a rookie over Cairo, we could probably run Hernandez (.808 OPS, 18 SB/ 4 CS, few errors and allegedly a higher defensive ceiling than Reyes) or Lambin (.847 OPS, and a lot of errors and little to no hype) out there. If we wanted another backup middle infielder for some crazy reason, Basak (.847 OPS, 11 SB / 3 CS, decent defense and a pretty good eye at the plate) could probably do the trick.

We're loaded with solid potential contributors in the minors, although our only legitimate position player prospects are Hernandez & Diaz--both only recently blessed with the "legitimate prospect" moniker.

The problem is that the Mets haven't had the guts to bring up these guys and see what they can do, presumably because they view DFA'ing or demoting some combination of Cairo, Anderson, Woody, Offerman, Mientkiewicz & Williams as "giving up the season." Which is really pretty ridiculous.

Brian Daubach is ready to be called up. Prentice Redman and perhaps Angel Pagan are ready to be called up.

Daubach is a retread. Valent is neither a retread nor a prospect, depending on your definitions. Pagan could be a prospect, maybe not. Redman looks, at best, like a fourth outfielder, which the team could use.

Moving away from outfielders and firstbaseman, you can speculate all you want on Chase Lambin's and Anderson Hernandez's prospect status and readiness to be called up. But I think it's clear that Hernandez is a hitting prospect by all regards and he and Diaz equal more than one hitting prospect.

Do we have more than one hitting prospect at other levels? Yes. Mike Jacobs, Brett Harper, and Lastings Milledge --- all prospects by even the least generous definition --- establish that quite easily as Binghamton, with out bringing in any questionable but arguable cases like Aarom Baldiris. Prospect, prospect, prospect.

St. Lucie looks very delectable, though a lot of their talent has moved up recently. Andy Wilson is ripping the padding off of outfield walls. Dante Brinkley is opening eyes for the second straight year, and Jamar HIll also has his supporters.

Yeah, the Mets aren't as prepared for two of thier top hitters to run head on into each other disastrously as the top national league team of the last fourteen years is. Big deal. Of all the useless... Let's not use a terrible happenstance as an opportunity to distort the case for our own unjust misery.

Centerfield Aug 12 2005 11:52 AM

Why the sudden panic? It doesn't seem like Beltran is going to be out for very long...and while the injury to Cammy hurts, we have an able replacement in Diaz ready to take his place.

Cliffy is day to day, and Roberto appears to be fine. All things considered, I think things could have been a lot worse.

We're still only 4 games out of the wild card, we get a chance to see what Diaz can do, and Matsui, Seo and Trachsel are here to give us what they can down the stretch.

TheOldMole Aug 12 2005 11:53 AM

They've had Diaz, Valent and Daubach up at various times.

cooby Aug 12 2005 11:54 AM

CF is right, come on, we don't even know how Beltran and Floyd are even feeling today

And Diaz started the season replacing Cameron, and did a fine job

PS, if you want to see an injury riddled season, check out 1973, and look what happened

Third edit, sheesh: And for crying out loud, quit pissing and moaning about the minor leaguers.

Centerfield Aug 12 2005 12:03 PM

From today's Times:

Floyd stayed in the game mainly because the Mets had so few healthy outfielders left on their roster. X-rays on Floyd's knee were negative and he plans to play Friday against the Dodgers. Beltran will probably need some time to clear his head.

MFS62 Aug 12 2005 12:43 PM

Thanks, folks.You have satisfied my curiosity. There are more than I thought.

I still have a concern, though.

Many folks have said that Prentice Redman could be a more than adequate fourth outfielder. But IIRC there were some early reports that said he really doesn't have the arm to play center or right field.Therefore, when I first heard of him early in his minor league career, I had him pegged as a Don Baylor- type DH in waiting.Does anyone know if the reports about his arm strength are valid?

Later

Rotblatt Aug 12 2005 12:55 PM

cooby wrote:Third edit, sheesh: And for crying out loud, quit pissing and moaning about the minor leaguers.

I prefer to think of it as pissing and moaning about seeing Cairo, Woody & Anderson starting on a regular basis.

I am talking about people who complain about minor leaguers not being major leaguers the minute they arrive to replace an injured player. What do they expect?

Elster88 Aug 12 2005 12:57 PM

I like Woodward.

Nymr83 Aug 12 2005 01:02 PM

screw redman, i always liked Valent, let him play! and i wouldnt be adverse to Daubach at 1B either, he was never given a fair chance here.

seawolf17 Aug 12 2005 01:07 PM

I'd let Redman play. Maybe he'll impress, and then we can deal him instead of Milledge.

Rotblatt Aug 12 2005 01:19 PM

]Rotty, that wasn't for you...

I am talking about people who complain about minor leaguers not being major leaguers the minute they arrive to replace an injured player. What do they expect?

Ah, got it. I'm a little defensive when it comes to my Tides . . .

And MF, I haven't heard anything lately about Redman's arm. I've been relying on box scores & write ups to follow the Tides and haven't come accross any mention. By all accounts, he's pretty rangey in the OF, though, and a weakish arm shouldn't be enough to prevent him from being a solid 4th outfielder. Even if we can't start him regularly in CF or RF, I'm sure he could pitch in there when needed . . .

By the way, 3B Rodney Nye checks in at 10th in the International League in AVG with .307 (our other guys don't have enough AB to qualify). He's got a .826 OPS overall. Not bad.

seawolf17 Aug 12 2005 02:04 PM

="Rotblatt"]3B Rodney Nye checks in at 10th in the International League in AVG with .307 (our other guys don't have enough AB to qualify). He's got a .826 OPS overall. Not bad.

Maybe we can get rid of this Wright guy. I don't know what everybody sees in this kid; apparently, he doesn't even know that you're supposed to use your glove, not your fingers, to catch.

Rotblatt Aug 12 2005 02:44 PM

Yeah, he suxx.

Rockin' Doc Aug 12 2005 08:33 PM

I have never understood Randolph's apparent aversion to Eric Valent. I believe he is a perfect fit for the Mets bench needs. He is a left handed pinch hitter with some power, he can sub in at both corner outfield positions as well as first base.

I know Valent got off to a terrible start early this season, but he seems to have got his swing back judging from his AAA numbers. Valent demonstrated what he is capable of last season. With Cameron likely out for the remainder of the season, and both Beltran and Floyd likely sidelined for a while, the Mets are in desperate need of some potential power. I believe that Valent, Diaz, and Daubach are more likely to provide some offensive fire power than are Williams and Offerman. Unfortunately for the Norfolk trio, none of them are utility infielders, which is what Randolph seems to have a prediliction toward..