Ok the theory is that when u eat dairy ur insulin levels rise and u gain fat that is bs. It is a myth not a fact that u gain fat from when insulin levels rise. I used to drink milk then stop cause of what jon said i have noticed kno real differnce. But when i added it back into diet huge differnce milk raises insulin level insulin is almost number one thing to build muscles and also milk has hormones in t from the cows , when they make them have to produce more milk. Cause ive noticed with milk ive gotten alot more muscular and strongher and taller. Milk should not be put out as something bad instead it should be seen as something good .

Give some comments thanx o i got resources from net and also power eating by susan kliener and talks about fact and fitcton about dairy and insuilin level. Well post some thanx again

Certain types of dairy depending on amount consumed do indeed spike insulin levels and CAN lead to fat gain depending on WHEN you spike your levels and what nutrients, etc., you follow the spike with.

I know what you're saying, I'm a hardgainer that stays around 7-8% now and I drink a gallon of skim milk every few days and add nothing but muscle, but that doesn't mean shit and especially not that a well known and respected doctor and nutritionist is wrong.

Lots of people I've trained were never able to acheive a hard toned look without ditching milk all together else they just looked soft. Again, due to my body type, metabolism, etc. I can get away with it as you can.

No one ever said that insulin spikes lead to fat gain. PWO nutrition dictates spiking your insulin levels then flushing your body with nutrients/proteins for improved muscle gain, fat loss, and recovery.

Do some more reading and understand the WHOLE picture, get all your facts and details together and also when you post use correct spelling and grammar.

What's so special about skim milk? How much is that a gallon? Seems to be a waste of money when you can do better. That's just me, I guess. How exactly does milk keep you "hard toned" look? Is it the calcium?

Agathos wrote:No, you're wrong.

Certain types of dairy depending on amount consumed do indeed spike insulin levels and CAN lead to fat gain depending on WHEN you spike your levels and what nutrients, etc., you follow the spike with.

I know what you're saying, I'm a hardgainer that stays around 7-8% now and I drink a gallon of skim milk every few days and add nothing but muscle, but that doesn't mean shit and especially not that a well known and respected doctor and nutritionist is wrong.

Lots of people I've trained were never able to acheive a hard toned look without ditching milk all together else they just looked soft. Again, due to my body type, metabolism, etc. I can get away with it as you can.

No one ever said that insulin spikes lead to fat gain. PWO nutrition dictates spiking your insulin levels then flushing your body with nutrients/proteins for improved muscle gain, fat loss, and recovery.

Do some more reading and understand the WHOLE picture, get all your facts and details together and also when you post use correct spelling and grammar.

You totally missed my point, which is that I can get away with using dairy(milk) and still look fairly lean, while most people tend to bloat and look soft when using lots of dairy.

I use skim milk for additional calories, again I'm a hardgainer like elitespella here and can get away with it while it would be an ideal thing to cut out for someone who gains fat easily and is looking to lose fat and lean down a lot.

My point to be made was that what works well for me and "elitespellah" to add mass quickly through additional kcals and protein doesn't have any bearing on what he was claiming it was just something that worked okay for him at this point in his training.

OK. Gotcha. I'd rather buy micellar casien than have to drink milk and end up farting. Maybe raw milk might be better since they have enzymes to help digest milk better...

Agathos wrote:Tungsten

You totally missed my point, which is that I can get away with using dairy(milk) and still look fairly lean, while most people tend to bloat and look soft when using lots of dairy.

I use skim milk for additional calories, again I'm a hardgainer like elitespella here and can get away with it while it would be an ideal thing to cut out for someone who gains fat easily and is looking to lose fat and lean down a lot.

My point to be made was that what works well for me and "elitespellah" to add mass quickly through additional kcals and protein doesn't have any bearing on what he was claiming it was just something that worked okay for him at this point in his training.

I have applied John Berardi's principles of nutrient timing and letting insulin do its job respective to when I want it to. I drink quite a bit of milk, exlusively skim milk, I do however restrict my intake to about a 6 hour window following my workouts. I track my composition bi-monthly and have had no appreaciable gain in fat, while maintaining a steady gain in mass.

I am not sure what results I might have if cosuming milk outside of that 6 hour window on a regular basis.

Do tell then what happens to your blood glucose when insulin levels go up?

IMO there are too many unanswered variables in this argument to make conclusions.

eliteballa3 wrote:Ok the theory is that when u eat dairy ur insulin levels rise and u gain fat that is bs. It is a myth not a fact that u gain fat from when insulin levels rise. I used to drink milk then stop cause of what jon said i have noticed kno real differnce. But when i added it back into diet huge differnce milk raises insulin level insulin is almost number one thing to build muscles and also milk has hormones in t from the cows , when they make them have to produce more milk. Cause ive noticed with milk ive gotten alot more muscular and strongher and taller. Milk should not be put out as something bad instead it should be seen as something good .

Give some comments thanx o i got resources from net and also power eating by susan kliener and talks about fact and fitcton about dairy and insuilin level. Well post some thanx again

It is a myth not a fact that u gain fat from when insulin levels rise.

That's a silly statement -I used exogenous insulin for a year and it turned my ripped physique into mushy shit, despite the numerous precautions I took.

insulin is almost number one thing to build muscles and also milk has hormones in t from the cows , when they make them have to produce more milk.

Of the 3 anabolic hormones insulin is dead last in terms of protein anabolic potential. I guess third on the list IS "almost number one"... depends on your perspective.

I can't imagine that any hormones given to cows would make their way into their milk, and THEN survive our own GI tracts to have any effect. Otherwise we could just drink GH rather than inject it (for example).

Don't take all this too seriously, I'm not ripping on anyone, just having fun.