Gods timing is perfect? You mean like that perfect timing for WWII? Or how about those poor people last month who could have gotten in a car and driven to another part of town, but got delayed for whatever reason and JUST happen to be in the path of a killer tornado? GREAT timing there god.. How about the time I had a car sold on a Sunday night, but couldn't find a notary public so the guy was going to come back on Monday, but GOD pushed a tree over on my car after he left? Great timing!

Thanks god. I had to catch the bus for a reason....I guess..

No one dies before his time and there are no guarantees on our life. Today is the best you can hope for. When God demands your life back from you, there is nothing you can do to avoid it. This is why today is the day to know Jesus Christ. It's the second death which is permanent..but Gods gift is eternal life.

Since god is in the business of healing amputees can you please issue a prayer for me to grow back some teeth? This time I'd like some big sharp lion type teeth or maybe razor sharp shark type teeth.. I have a few people who asked me to bite their legs off.. OH! And my former shop teacher got his middle finger cut off.. I'm sure he still wants to flip me the bird..

lol..I need some teeth too. Shark teeth would be great because they're infinitely regenerating. And if your shop teacher is really determined, tell him to toss you a turkey. :p

Since god is in the business of healing amputees can you please issue a prayer for me to grow back some teeth? This time I'd like some big sharp lion type teeth or maybe razor sharp shark type teeth.. I have a few people who asked me to bite their legs off.. OH! And my former shop teacher got his middle finger cut off.. I'm sure he still wants to flip me the bird..

lol..I need some teeth too. Shark teeth would be great because they're infinitely regenerating. And if your shop teacher is really determined, tell him to toss you a turkey. :p

I have to tell ya.. If I don't wake up tomorrow morning with a brand new set of teeth in my head I'm probably not going to run straight off to church on Sunday.. I do, however pray all these good Texas Christians will be turned into gold statues for me so I can take them off to the "we buy broken gold" store down the street to make some quick cash.. I keep checking the sidewalks out front, but so far god is really letting me down on this, BUT if I do walk out there tomorrow and find about 9 150 lb gold statues out there I'm DEFINITELY heading to church! ...after I go to the bank.

You DO realize these good moral atheists here are making you look... uhmmmm.. I hate to use the word stupid, but nothing else really comes to mind.. Stick around long enough and you might get a new lease on life.. Your current slumlord is corrupting your head..

You've made a positive claim, it is for you to provide evidence in support of that claim.

So far you've done a lot of preaching but not provided any evidence. It is irrelevant to suggest that we do not know every amputee, instead you must cite one extra-biblical* and verifiable account of amputee healing and by that we mean restoration of the amputated part of the body, not provision of a prosthetic or other non-flesh and blood 'healing'.

Furthermore, the healing you cite must be unequivocally attributable to the Judeo-Christian god and not one of the myriad of other deities allegedly available to claim the miracle as their own.

I think you've been cut a lot of slack in this thread, simply because you're an amusing chew-toy, but I think you're guilty of breaking at least two forum rules i.e. on preaching and use of quotes but it is now time for you to actually answer the question WWGHA?

*You'll appreciate that quoting the bible to prove the bible is circular reasoning and therefore inadmissible.

I really loved the "I was a heroin addict" "ME TOO" bit. "I can't be outdone". Priceless! Reminds me of the one about the optimist and pessimist drunks, they fall down blind drunk, one can see the stars, the other the gutter. All about perspective eh SoGgy? Problem is, the one who can see the gutter is the realist. You? You can't face the reality of your position.

I gotta admit though, all these threats of god revealing himself (how many times has this been said?) to me has me a bit freaked out. Lucky I got that shotgun. Any weirdo comes exposing himself in the window tonight ain't gonna know what hit him. Deity or no deity, he's gonna be minced meat the creep.

And god bless you soggy, because the real world won't. The worms are waiting.

For info - servantofgod has read my question, a couple posts up, because he has responded by PM. I have apologised, explained that I do not "do" PMs, and requested he places his response in the thread where I engaged with him. I hope he will do so.

You mean we need PROOF of foolishness to believe it to be true that we'll burn in hell forever and ever if we don't believe it? Tough crowd..

Ding! Ding! Ding! +1

My sentiments exactly, mram.

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Sheldon: Ever since you started having regular intercourse your mind has lost its edge. You should reflect on that.Leonard: Well, Einstein had a busy sex life.Sheldon: Yes, but he never unified gravity with the other forces. If he hadn't been such a hounddog we'd all have time machines.

God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited. Nothing is too difficult for Him to do.

Jos:17:16: And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Beth-shean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel.J'g:1:19: And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

2 Kings 3:27 "Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land."

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If God did heal an amputee, would you know about it? Do you have a list of every amputee in the world and what happens to them?

Seriously? You think someone might have mentioned it - I mean, God has got a good publicity organisation behind him hasn't he?

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Why do you think God wouldn't do it?

Because like fairies, pixies and unicorns, He ain't there.

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Do you think He can't do it?

"Think" suggests there might be some doubt - that there might be some wriggle-room. Of all the contemporaneous, non-biblical records that we have, none of them mentions miracles in the area in which the supposed Jesus was living. You would think that M't:27:52: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,M't:27:53: And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

might have merited a line of two in the Jewish or Roman record of the time...

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It is literally impossible for an unbeliever to understand the bible.

I must put this down as the single most vacuous statement on Christianity that I have ever read.

Listen, your logic goes like this

1. God can do anything2. Therefore, God can make his meaning clear to everyone3. No unbeliever can understand the Bible4. Therefore God cannot make his meaning clear to unbelievers

5. Without knowledge of Jesus, you cannot be saved6. It is not possible to gain knowledge of Jesus until you are saved.

Catch 22 anyone?

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 07:45:26 AM by Graybeard »

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Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

You can know Christ, personally, today, by calling upon His in prayer and asking Him to reveal Himself to you.

Most of us here have done that, especially the former Christians. When they felt their faith starting to falter, they prayed for strength. They begged for any kind of a sign that their god was actually there, because they were desperate to avoid losing their faith. God did not answer them.

I've never been a Christian... I've been an atheist all my life, except for a brief period where I experimented with various types of "woo" for about three or four years in my late teens to early twenties. Even so, I myself have occasionally indulged Christians who have said this, so I'll do it again...

"Christ, I call upon you in prayer. I ask you to reveal yourself to me." I'm doing this with as much sincerity as I can muster, since basically what I'm doing here is attempting to communicate telepathically with a being who almost certainly does not exist, which I consider to be an act of superlative absurdity. But there you go... he has his chance.

--Well, my cell phone just vibrated; someone has left me a voicemail. Maybe it's him. Does Christ have a 703 area code? I think I'll wait a while to listen to the VM, just to heighten the suspense.

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[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]: Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

God, and by God I mean the judeo-christian God, is not limited. Nothing is too difficult for Him to do. He is God Almighty and can do anything. It is just as easy for Him to heal an amputee as it is to raise someone from the dead. The bible has testimony of several miracles which were of a greater order than healing a lost limb, so why this particular case is noteworthy to atheists I have no idea.

You're going about this the wrong way, if you want to know anything about God. You're trying to deconstruct something you don't understand. It is literally impossible for an unbeliever to understand the bible.

Personally, I haven't known many atheists who have ever tried. Most of them seem to memorize a few passgaes they think helps their arguments and that's it. Personally I think it's fairly ignorant to judge something you don't even understand yourself.

If you want to know if Jesus is real or not, put Him to the test. With a sincere heart, pray to Him like this:

Jesus, if you do exist I want to know about it and I want to know you. Please reveal yourself to me Jesus; show me that you're real.

If you you do that Jesus will show you that He is real and that He is Almighty God. Here is a word for you:

Matthew 11:28

Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest

God bless.

Begging the Question, Appeal to Emotion

Next time create an argument that is not entirely constructed out of fallacies.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

That was my point above that, if you actually tried to know Jesus, you would see that. The bible perfectly describes not only what is happening on Earth now, but also how to obtain salvation and know God.

We only know God by natural and special revelation. Natural revelation is that God has made His appearance plain, that His eternal attributes are apparent from the things He has made. Special revelation is when God comes to you personally. Everyone can know God in this way if they ask to.

Begging the Question. Appeal to personal credulity.

Try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

I told you you can know God directly. He will reveal Himself to you if you ask Him to. By that, I mean sincerely and not swearing at Him and cursing His name and demanding He do tricks for you. But just genuinely wanting to know if He is actually real or not. You seem to have made up your mind, but I am telling you that He will show Himself to you if you ask.

Begging the question, No True Scottsman

Next time, try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

The true Christian is the one who follows Christ and obeys His word. The true church is the body of Christ, of which every Christian is a member. Personally, I am non-denominational. I do not put any exclusivity on the body of Christ however.

No true Scottsman

Next time, try constructing an argument that does not consist entirely of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Some things are due to Gods timing. For instance, I was agnostic for most of my life, when God suddenly revealed Himself to me. I did not seek Him out, He chose me. Why, I don't know..but now of course I wish I had heard from Him when I was a kid. Yet, it's up to Him.

Let me tell you this much, and I know you are telling the truth about what you are saying. That you have sincerely sought Him.

Jesus put it on my heart to come here and tell you, and anyone else here who will listen, that if you ask to know Him sincerely, if you pray to Him and ask if He is real, He will reveal Himself to you. I know He is serious about it so please, try Him once more. If you seek you will find. I will spend some time reading the rest of your post and answering it. God bless.

No true Scottsman, Appeal to personal credulity

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

I did see Thor..I thought it was entertaining, yet it really pales in comparison to biblical testimony. I'll tell you a story about Thor though..

There was a boy I knew who was constantly being tortured by a demonic presence. He would hear the voices of demons, or perhaps even Satan, saying the most vile and awful things in his mind. He would be physically tortured by these denoms to the point where he would go into convulsions. Then one day when it was happening, for some reason, he called upon the name of Thor. When he did this the demons suddenly disappeared.

This happened a few times, so he decided that Thor must be the true God. Yet, he figured out later this is exactly what they wanted him to believe. When the demons saw he was calling on something other than Jesus, they stopped torturing him. It was only later when he figured this out that he was able to make them leave permanently by calling on the name of the Lord.

In any case, as I was saying to "Death over Life", that Jesus put it on my heart to tell you here that Jesus is calling to you now. He is calling you to come to Him and know Him personally. I believe you have sought sincerely, but try one more time. You will not be disappointed. God bless.

Begging the question, Appeal to personal credulity, ignoring the counterevidence, Special pleading

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

#1. God chose you, not you chose god? So that means you are admitting god plays favoritism, as to who to save, and who to send to the eternal toaster. And you say this is a god of love? He chooses you, but not us, what gives?

Some people are elect, in that God chose them before the foundation of the world. Meaning, God knew me, knew that He would create me before He even made the world. The apostles were an example of this. So, my life has always been predestined. This isn't the case with everyone.

#2. Your scriptures say, seek and you shall find, but also contradicts itself saying that no man is able to seek god.

So, I am doing what the Bible says, and I’m not finding your god in reality. Ironically, in obeying the Bible, I am disobeying the Bible, because I am not able to seek God. So, with the de-coder ring, which is it?

The bible says that no man can find God because no one is righteous. This is why God made a provision for us through His Son. Christ is the mediator between man and God.

Let me tell you this much, and I know you are telling the truth about what you are saying. That you have sincerely sought Him.

Jesus put it on my heart to come here and tell you, and anyone else here who will listen, that if you ask to know Him sincerely, if you pray to Him and ask if He is real, He will reveal Himself to you. I know He is serious about it so please, try Him once more. If you seek you will find. I will spend some time reading the rest of your post and answering it. God bless.

I’ve given Him infinite amount of chances, he takes none. God will be through with me when I’m dead, even I will forgive him after I’m dead. So, once again, how is this seen as love, because as your faith puts it, when I’m dead I’m damned, yet I’ll be willing to forgive God if he shows up in front of me when I’m dead. How is this tyrant who plays games with his own creation seen as love?

I only know what God put on my heart and that its trustworthy. On your part though, if you're saying that you honestly seek God..why do you spend your time hanging around here cursing God? That isn't how to find Him. Railing against Him isn't going to get you anywhere.

(1)Begging the question. No True Scottsman(2)Non Sequitur(3)Begging the question(4)Appeal to personal credulity, Begging the question, No true Scottsman

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

What I mean about taking care of my family is this..I am here to witness to them. My mother is an agnostic, my sister an atheist, my brother an atheist and my father is an atheist. Currently, I have been called to witness to them. After this, I will go where He calls me next.

Appeal to Emotion, Begging the question, Appeal to personal credulity

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

None of them ever cursed God, they cursed the hypocrites who claimed to serve God will keeping the truth from the people.

Ignoring the counterevidence, special pleading

Next time try constucting an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Actually, you are incorrect. Christ uses the greek word "miseo" in that passage, the meaning is to love less than. It is saying to put the Lord above your family. The bible says anyone who loves his mother or father more than me is not worthy of me. This is the true meaning of that passage.

No true Scottsman

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

It's a little bit of both, Az, but the true meaning of my presence here is to bring them to the Lord.

Begging the question, Special Pleading

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

First of all, you would be wrong in any case. To hate your mother or father would violate the second greatest commandment, which is what all the law and the prophets hang on. That is to love your neighbor as yourself. This isn't what Christ was teaching. He said plainly anyone who loves his mother and father more than me can't be my disciple. This is the meaning of the passage. To put the Lord first.

I am not a scholar of languages, I couldn't really go into the entymology of this particular word. You can look at this literally if you wish, but the bible often engages in parables and metaphorical language. This was not a condemnation of the family, it was a reminder that God comes first. It would be difficult for an unbeliever to see the correct context in any case.

Ignoring the counterevidence, special pleading, No true Scottsman, Poisoning the Well

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Not everyone is elected, but anyone can be saved. The only beings who have been judged already are the devil and his angels.

Begging the question, appeal to negative consequences

Next time try contructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

You can know Christ, personally, today, by calling upon His in prayer and asking Him to reveal Himself to you.

Arugmenum ad nauseum, Begging the question

Next time try constructing an argument that does not entirely consist of fallacies

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.