I think that The Bible covered a lot of the notions that are presented by atheists in this forum pretty clearly:

Thessalonians 2:7-12

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

No rationalization is needed to support The Bible, The Bible can easily stand on its own two feet and a thorough knowledge of The Bible is all you need to debate any atheist despite what degree they may have.

When you start to rationalize The Bible and put your own reasoning before The Word of God. You are doing an extremely dangerous thing. I am afraid that this is a trap that a lot of Creationists fall into. I debated a Biology teacher at Pensacola Junior College and when I began quoting Bible verses she started fumbling over her arguments and looked visibly intimidated. Trust me, The Bible does not need our help. We are the ones who need it.

I think that The Bible covered a lot of the notions that are presented by atheists in this forum pretty clearly:Thessalonians 2:7-12

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

No rationalization is needed to support The Bible, The Bible can easily stand on its own two feet and a thorough knowledge of The Bible is all you need to debate any atheist despite what degree they may have.

When you start to rationalize The Bible and put your own reasoning before The Word of God. You are doing an extremely dangerous thing. I am afraid that this is a trap that a lot of Creationists fall into. I debated a Biology teacher at Pensacola Junior College and when I began quoting Bible verses she started fumbling over her arguments and looked visibly intimidated. Trust me, The Bible does not need our help. We are the ones who need it.

Indeed... Ironically, most all the arguments against Christianity (and God) you hear today, were foretold in the New Testament.

Eternity requires creation to happen. How? If what exists does not ever age (age being constant), then what exists cannot be born or birthed (made new). New dead matter would be to hot to sustain life, new living matter (life would not be mature enough to take care of itself. So creation with age is required.

After sin creation with age was no longer required because everything living was birthed, aged, and died.

Two examples of God following His on laws are:

1) When Jesus made the wine. He did not create it, He had the servants fill the containers with water, then He altered the water which made the wine. 2) When a whale swallowed Jonah, God did not create a whale to do this. if you read scripture you will find that God "prepared" a whale for this. Which means he altered what was already created.

So basically:

1) Eternity needs creation because nothing can be birthed into it.2) Non- eternity cannot have things created into it because things are birthed into it.

To make more understandable: Where creation exists, birthing cannot. Where birthing exists, creation cannot. And that is why the laws for creation where different and why everything was created with age.

I'm totally clueless as to what context your referring to for spacetime. God is eternal (forever) and does not require creation. Could you be more specific on your context, who are you talking about? Also I believe that spirits aren't governed by physical laws (laws of physics) but spiritual ones (they can walk through doors). Hope I'm not too confusing.

Figured out what your talking about, Ikester."So what has to make time eternal in heaven is that age is a constant and not parallel with the passing of time. It [Age] becomes parallel with time only after sin as part of the curse of sin."

I think that The Bible covered a lot of the notions that are presented by atheists in this forum pretty clearly:Thessalonians 2:7-12

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."....

This verse was taken out of context and relates to a different time than now...Wesleys notes says: "... permit to come upon them.." as well. God doesn't lie, it's contrary to his nature.http://bible.cc/2_th...onians/2-11.htm