FFI is an awesome site with xlnt info and forums but not many Muslims who will actually debate Islam. It appears that Muslims will only debate on sites like umma.com where they know their viewpoints will always win due to moderators who delete any serious debate postings.

I'll always be a member and donor here because I see the incredible importance of this site. Still I want to debate Muslims who will engage. Question is where to find forum that allows full debate without insults and without mods who just delete anything that gets heated?

So many here on FFI could have great impact if allowed to debate Muslims. So.....where to go?

If any of us go to a Muslim run form we get banned within the first 10 posts. We are the "apes and pigs" and we will generally not be listened to, certainly not as equals, ever. We do have some Muslim members, here but most have drifted away, simply because they come to make converts or to defend indefensible aspects of Islam and loose. Then they get mad, shout a lot abuse and go away.

In reality, the sad truth is that almost no Muslims are interested in any form of serious exploration of Islam. They know that asking questions is not allowed. Also they believe themselves as hugely superior over others to the point of not even listening to the words spoken to them.

There are several standard responses Muslims use to answer non-Muslims

1) "You don't know Arabic. " The implication is that somehow after you have studied the language the text will say something completely different to what ALL translators say. You don't need to be a doctor of biology to be able to recognise a pig when you see one.2) "Out of context." This is also often used, but never with actually supplying the context they so complain you are leaving out. I always ask them to give this context, and usually at that point they run away.3) "You are not an expert/scholar." This suggests that you cannot study the text of the Qur'an like any other ancient text and explain it that way. In fact Muslim "scholars" would not even considered real scholars by a Western theologian, not because what they teach, but because they are ignorant of proper methods to study texts and refuse to ever use them.

So in short, debates with Muslims are not very intellectually stimulating or productive. Their main effort is never to discuss the issues you raise, but purely to find any way at all to "discredit" you, but using mostly logical fallacies like ad hominem and tu quoque, over and over.

And when they cannot shut you up with these methods, we get "I know where you live" and stuff like that....

Some, but not large numbers, of Muslims leave because of sites like ours. But each who does will bring more to check things out. Many Muslims read this site but dare not write.

And there is also one other thing.... in a way the people who make Muslims leave Islam in large numbers are the likes of ISIS. No decent human being wants to be associated with that. Many Muslims rationalise saying "they are not Muslims", but it really does not take much to discover that absolutely nothing they do is not given either in the Qur'an or the Sunna.

Have you tried the CEMB forum? [urlhttp://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=62c00763bc3360dc8cc4588804be8a28;www;action=forum[/url]I know one or two members here don't like it and I haven't spent enough time there to offer a general opinion, but I've seen some interesting threads. I haven't noticed whether there are many there who remain Muslim.

‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Thank you, kind sirs, for helping me understand. If someone would create a business card for advertising FFI and then work some kind of deal with a printing company where we could order the cards here on FFI, I would gladly pay for them and then go to apartment complexes near mosques and put the cards in various places. I'd order a thousand cards an promise to use them up within 90 days.

I think a few others have had that idea to leave cards around, like on benches or at libraries/stores.

I didn't realize that Muslims answers followed Manfred's pattern until he explained it. But that is indeed their standard reply pattern. They know that they can't answer, so they make threats. And most of them don't know Arabic or the "context" either!

Maybe you and I could make a pattern for a card together and then you can print it?