Square Enix is suing a group of 15 "Italian nationals" for leaking a preview build of Deus Ex: Human Revolution to torrent sites a couple of months ago, reports Kotaku. Word is: "As part of court filings issued last month in Washington, Square Enix accuse the fifteen of logging into the servers where the demo was hosted using the access information of an Italian games magazine (GMC), where they found the preview build of the game, copied it and uploaded it onto the internet."

You might want to do a bit of research on reverse engineering and how memory dumps/footprints or analyzing file structures and formats etc. is going to take things to a whole new level for someone in the know.

I assume you're talking about cracking the game. From a game coding perspective, DX:HR doesn't do anything that other games haven't done before. Any competent programmer could create the same systems from scratch. As for cracking, as I mentioned before, DX:HR is using Steamworks and Steamworks has been cracked many, many times already. If DX:HR were using some brand new, revolutionary DRM system, you'd have a point. But it isn't using that. It's using a system that's already been consistently cracked in the past.

A head start is a head start and any serious game developer is going to burn mucho dinero even in just three months. I never said that anyone would code a full game in three months. Stop pulling stuff that I never said out of your ass, kthx.

Again, you don't actually need to play the leaked build to steal its ideas. All you have to do is read the previews and watch the official videos and that will give you a pretty good sense of how the game is designed and its mechanics implemented.

Also: The positive reception of the leak alone is a very valuable information asset for third parties (and thus a potential problem for Square Enix). It is true that other games have combined stealth, action and dialogue but some games worked for the audience and some games didn't. It seems like DXHR is going to be one of the working cases. That info alone is worth a lot because it's going to make copying the essentials much easier. I'm almost tempted to bet real money that some Eastern European or Russian devs are all over the DXHR leak already to produce one of their infamous clones.

Deus Ex, STALKER, System Shock and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines also received critical acclaim from many people. However, how many clones of those games do we see? Truth is, nobody is going to start making DX:HR-clones until the game sells at least 3 million units. If they do start making clones, is that necessarily a bad thing? Hybrid games are still pretty uncommon and I'd much rather see more of those instead of more CoD-clones.

Jerykk wrote on Jul 7, 2011, 12:18:Your points seem a bit silly. For one, you don't actually have to play a game in order to steal its ideas. Anybody who's watched videos or read previews can do the exact same thing.

No, they don't. You might want to do a bit of research on reverse engineering and how memory dumps/footprints or analyzing file structures and formats etc. is going to take things to a whole new level for someone in the know. It's one thing to look at something and to find it cool but it's a totally different story to figure out how to do (or imitate) it properly.

Nothing DX:HR does is particularly innovative. It's not the first game to combine stealth, action and dialogue, nor will it be the last. Even if there was an idea that another developer stole, there was only a few month gap between the leak and DX:HR's retail release. It's not like you can make a AAA game in less than three months. As for dissecting the game and stealing code, there's only so much you can do without the source code. And the game is going to use Steamworks, which has already been cracked countless times.

A head start is a head start and any serious game developer is going to burn mucho dinero even in just three months. I never said that anyone would code a full game in three months. Stop pulling stuff that I never said out of your ass, kthx.

Also: The positive reception of the leak alone is a very valuable information asset for third parties (and thus a potential problem for Square Enix). It is true that other games have combined stealth, action and dialogue but some games worked for the audience and some games didn't. It seems like DXHR is going to be one of the working cases. That info alone is worth a lot because it's going to make copying the essentials much easier. I'm almost tempted to bet real money that some Eastern European or Russian devs are all over the DXHR leak already to produce one of their infamous clones.

- Any game developing third party can begin now to analyze the game (like which gameplay systems work well and how and why etc.?) instead of having to wait for the full version.- Any third party interested in reverse engineering the game to learn about its architectural design has gotten a nice head start as a result of the leak.- Innovative ideas, gameplay elements or systems, can be taken from the leak and copied into other games, again yielding a nice head start.- Any third party interested in releasing a zero day crack has gotten a head start as far as analyzing the *.exe and looking for possible DRM anchors is concerned.

Your points seem a bit silly. For one, you don't actually have to play a game in order to steal its ideas. Anybody who's watched videos or read previews can do the exact same thing. Nothing DX:HR does is particularly innovative. It's not the first game to combine stealth, action and dialogue, nor will it be the last. Even if there was an idea that another developer stole, there was only a few month gap between the leak and DX:HR's retail release. It's not like you can make a AAA game in less than three months. As for dissecting the game and stealing code, there's only so much you can do without the source code. And the game is going to use Steamworks, which has already been cracked countless times.

As for the lawsuit, they aren't only charging $5000. They're charging at least $5000, which means they're probably going to charge a lot more.

nin wrote on Jul 6, 2011, 23:02:edit: Hell, all we need now is fredrikson, POOASS, and woody in here and we'd be set.

Although I did find POOASS slightly entertaining.

POOASS was awesome. I miss that guy. And at least fredrickson sometimes posted something funny.

Most of the riff raff we have nowadays just whines that nobody likes games on Blues, and that's about all they've got to offer. And sadly, they seem to feel it requires twenty or thirty of them all bleating the same mantra.

Drayth wrote on Jul 6, 2011, 22:21:Edit--My stance on the suing is indifferent. I do believe the leak was a positive thing overall for the game. If they want to prosecute though, they have every right to. I have no problem with that, especially considering they're not suing for $5,000,000 in damages or some stupid shit like that.

It's a very good point. I will happily concede that it was indeed a crime (though I'd not really go so far as to call it a felony, like some have done.)

Whether it qualifies as theft, I dunno. At the least it's "haxxoring."

And if the only thing they're asking for is 5 grand, then eh.

But all in all, I'll still happily argue that the leak has done them far more good than bad. Though some people seem to not understand that positive word of mouth is a great thing in gaming, I've seen quite a few people go from "it's going to suck, they'll fuck it up, it'll be Invisible War all over again," to "OMG I played the leak and it's awesome! I'm definitely getting this."

I can explain, but I choose not to get drawn into a long discussion with someone who obviously in the end isn't going to get it anyway. You

In other words, you're unable to articulate anything reasonable.

You can go update your Facebook page instead. Everyone needs to know who you are and what you are doing right now anyway.

Facebook, of course, is some giant evil. When you sleep it goes into your wallet and puts all your personal information online. Wait, no, that doesn't sound right. It actually sounds more like Facebook only knows what you tell it. Don't want facebook to know more than a pseudonym and a few people you're friends with? Then don't fill in any more information

Yes, anything and everything should be allowed by any company because there is always some company which is worse

Don't like it don't use it. If Valve started asking for sperm count they'd stop having users. It isn't related to their business and has no real use. Hardware IDs, on the other hand, are exactly related and have a lot of use.

I love the "my word should be enough" argument. Haven't you ever gone to their messageboard when people are caught hacking in games? "I didn't do it! It wasn't me!" Yeah, if Valve went by everybody's word the world would be a great place, right?

These fuckers deserve to get their dumb asses sued to hell and back. With that out of the way it ain't too hard to come up with reasons why this is hurting Square Enix. Whether the negatives outweigh the positives is anyone's guess but here's a few negatives to consider:

- Any game developing third party can begin now to analyze the game (like which gameplay systems work well and how and why etc.?) instead of having to wait for the full version.- Any third party interested in reverse engineering the game to learn about its architectural design has gotten a nice head start as a result of the leak.- Innovative ideas, gameplay elements or systems, can be taken from the leak and copied into other games, again yielding a nice head start.- Any third party interested in releasing a zero day crack has gotten a head start as far as analyzing the *.exe and looking for possible DRM anchors is concerned.

A lot of bad could potentially come from this leak for Square Enix so they have every right in the world to sue these dipshits. In fact, they even have an obligation to take legal action in order to protect their IP. If they would sport an "oh well" attitude then this could be construed as carelessness with regard to their intellectual property rights and hurt them in similar situations. As a corporation you don't want to set a precedence for "our stuff is free for all".Nope. Sue the living shit outta these assholes. My fingers are crossed for an epic success for Square Enix.

Regardless of how good the leaked version is or isn't, regardless of where it was stored to make it convenient for press to get access to it, regardless of whether or not this illegitimate copy of the game leads to word of mouth sales...the bottom line is someone stole credentials, downloaded a piece of software they didn't have any right to download and then, redistributed it over the internet. All before the game has been released.

As mentioned earlier, nobody is questioning the illegality of the act. The question is whether or not the act had a positive long-term effect on DX:HR's success. After playing the leak, I decided to pre-order the game. Based on what I've read here and on other forums, many people did the same. I don't think I saw a single comment saying "God, this game sucks. I'm going to cancel my pre-order!" Legal or not, the leak has given DX:HR a lot of positive word of mouth. After the debacle of DX:IW, that's definitely a good thing.

The only downside to the leak is that publishers probably won't be so willing to give out PC builds for previews anymore. Then again, most publishers only give out X360 builds for previews anyway so it probably won't matter much.

nin wrote on Jul 6, 2011, 23:02:Pretty much anytime someone would mention him potentially working at Monolith (after he had a habit of passing out Fear codes), he'd shut the fuck up and disappear for awhile.

Something I had read elsewhere outed him as being someone high up at Monolith. Last time I saw Riley was shortly before Monolith games first went on Steam...not a peep outta Riley since, at least not trashing Steam.

Definitely has multiple accounts though, I remember catching him a few times, forget names now that Blues allows us to change display names. NoBS doesn't quite strike me as Riley, but I wouldn't put it past him.

He's had at least 3 or 4 different handles in the past. Some where short lived >U or something like that was one.. I know he was going for "Greater than You" but I always thought it was funny that I could just put my name before his and mess up that handle.

Searching "it is you who" brings up an all star cast, but it's nothing but Riley a bit down page 2 and on.

He dropped the Riley persona and had another account for awhile, but it's name escapes me. So it's certainty possibly he'd reregister again.

Pretty much anytime someone would mention him potentially working at Monolith (after he had a habit of passing out Fear codes), he'd shut the fuck up and disappear for awhile. I can't remember who (sorry!) was speculating he was actually Jason Hall (which, anytime that comment was made, he'd also coincidentally drop off the radar for a bit).

edit: Hell, all we need now is fredrikson, POOASS, and woody in here and we'd be set.

space captain wrote on Jul 6, 2011, 18:03:yeh you better keep that tinfoil hat on tight, they already have your MAC address, bloatedme

I know that. WTF is up with your offensive name-calling and hostility? I wasn't trying to take sides in this argument but just trying to clear up what is actually being tracked or whatnot. But you sure do get angry if someone even appears to possibly disagree with your godlike opinion. You are a immature narcissistic serial bully.

FWIW I don't agree with NoBS' implied point that we have some sort of birthright to online privacy. I don't believe government regulations on corporations about consumer online privacy is a solution for many reasons. That's where I think he/she/it/honey badger was going.