JasW wrote:I believe this only occurred non-rush hour and/or on weekends in this era, but a number of Gladstone Branch trains simply began/ended their run at Summit. They (or at least the eastbound ones) arrived in Summit on the southernmost track against the wall (on the far left in the early 70s photo below), and passengers changed to the eastbound M&E local on the middle track across the platform. Passengers heading west on the Gladstone at these times debarked from the M&E local on the northernmost track (the fully visible one in the photo) and crossed over to the wall track via the station overpass. I think some of the MUs in the Summit mini-yard were Gladstone trains.

I know this is from a couple of months ago but just saw it. You are, AFAIK, incorrect. I lived in Berkeley Heights from 1967 to 1979. While the ETT would show Gladstone Branch trains originating/terminating at Summit, the equipment went through to/from Hoboken on the rear of the "connecting" 6xx/5xx Dover or Morristown (later Denville) train. To the best of my knowledge, there were no Gladstone Branch revenue trains that were scheduled to have their equipment originate or terminate in Summit (exception for work such as when catenary work had diesels substituting on the Dover line but electric ops on the Gladstone Branch).

Westbound, train arrived, carmen unhooked everything, Dover train pulled leaving Gladstone cars behind, Gladstone cars then did their tests, and departed. Even less time involved. Unfortunately, once the Arrows and NJT came along, NJT apparently decided this was way too complicated and did away with the joins and separates at Summit.

In the later days, the motors had become sufficiently unreliable that every train had to have at least two motors (four cars) so off-peak trains east of Summit with both Dover and Gladstone cars were always eight cars (I was on a branch train one day with a dead motor; we were so late at Summit that the Dover train had already gone so we just ran extra to Hoboken stopping only as needed to discharge passengers; my one and only time to breeze Newark).

Memory can always be faulty, and that's all I'm relying on, and for roughly the same period to which you refer. I lived in Summit as a boy, and while I can't remember specifically what happened westbound on the Gladstone (obviously because I would just get off the train and leave), I do have specific recollection of the Gladstone train arriving on the wall track while waiting for the train from Dover to arrive. Perhaps that was just an occasional or even one-time occurence.

Do you have a time period when this occured?? It is possible that right before the end (1983,84) that some off peak Gladstone trains terminated in Summit as shuttles... This was probably late evening runs for the most part.... I was only 6 years old in 1984 so I have no recollection of what occured, so I'm just going by what others, both railoaders and railbuffs had told me.

~Steve PellettiereCo-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."

train 425 ran out of hoboken, and went all the way to gladstone, as a diesel push-pull. upon returning to summit, the train was parked on the hill track, and tied down. from there, we would wait on the platform for the next dover train to come through, where we'd cut off the last 4, and use them for shuttles to gladstone and return. there were shuttle trains that ran back and forth from summit to gladstone. the last trip east would again result in the train going up on the hill track. the crew would leave the train to catch the last train back to hoboken, or west to denville, and the nites i ran it, i'd tie the train up after pulling to the top of the hill, and tie it down on the way back through the cars, and i'd catch my train back to chatham, where i lived during this time. after 425 turned at gladstone., all westbound trains arriving at gladstone would discharge passengers, crew would leave, and one of the "hostlers" hanging around the station, or carman al reid, would reverse the train, and yard it. the last westbound train of the night would tie up on the main, at the station in gladstone. our return trip from 425, plus one more trip east were the last two eastbound trains on the branch. iirc correctly, we'd make a meet at bernardsville, and another one at berkeley heights (where i grew up at, for a few years, in junior high and high school). this was at the end of the lackawanna electrics, and in fact, i ran a train on the last night of operation. i ran one more passennger train after the last night of the lackawanna electics, (a very sad gp-7/fp-7 pull-pull affair) and i've never been back on the branch. i did run to berkeley heights, while running the dover drill for conrail, a few times though.

Do you have a time period when this occured?? It is possible that right before the end (1983,84) that some off peak Gladstone trains terminated in Summit as shuttles... This was probably late evening runs for the most part.... I was only 6 years old in 1984 so I have no recollection of what occured, so I'm just going by what others, both railoaders and railbuffs had told me.

This would have been late 60s, early 70s. And although it could have been a Sunday, it would have been a Saturday morning run more likely than not -- I usually took the 10:30 a.m. from Summit to Hoboken on Saturdays.

TSTOM wrote:Between Maplewood and South Orange....Westbound side of the mains.

I figured, I saw the bedding where the rails had been pulled up and an overpass where the tracks were (now filled with bushes and stuff), as i described in my thread over by the NJT forum, I wanted to make sure it was the same thing.

I was an extra board towerman at South Orange in the summer of 1964 (just graduated from high school). The tower, as many have posted here, was on the eastbound side of the main tracks. In the summer of 1964 there were three trains originating from South Orange yard, train numbers 204, 222, and 224. In the evening, there were more than three, but I can't remember all the train numbers (I do remember 209 and 211 though). At the time I worked there if my memory serves me correctly South Orange was the only remaining tower on the former DL&W Hoboken Division to use mechanical switch levers and locks, as well as signal levers. I built up my upper body strength that summer!

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but while searching for something else, I ran across this discussion.Attached are two photos. One of a Lackawanna camelback locomotive on the 'armstrong' turntable at the South Orange, NJ roundhouse in 1925, and the other of the 'pump house' and coal dock that was mentioned in this thread. That photo was taken in April 1971.