I am not a huge fan of Gun Control in mass sweeping reforms. I don't have a problem with rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I do have a problem with automatic weaponry in the hands of the general public.

And I don't think the answer to this unspeakable tragedy is to over react, and scream about gun control.

What we need to be speaking about, what we need to be focusing on, is Mental Health. Looking back at the history of violent outbursts by gunmen, (this one not included since no motive has been discerned, though I'd be surprised if there weren't Mental Health tie ins here, considering it was an Elementary School) Mental Health is the underlying theme in Mass Gun Violence. You want to stump on about Gun Control, this isn't the right example. Neither is Aurora, or Columbine, or Virginia Tech.

These are examples of Mental Health problems that were manifested to a catastrophic, and horrifically deadly act by someone who suffered from Mental Health related problems. Mental Health is an incredibly touchy subject, that far too many people feel needs to be dealt with quietly.

Don't go that far, Mexico has way stricter gun controls, 65K dead in 6 years anyway...

Goes for saying but if criminals/insane people want to kill they'll find the means to do it, this shooter could have acquired his armament illegaly, specially if he was 20, I think you have to be 21 to buy those kinds of weapons..

im all for owning guns for use in hunting and such....with background checks and mandatory training

but yeah what shoju said too and i think you need to add the mall shooting into that list

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPSAmirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego. Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

Goes for saying but if criminals/insane people want to kill they'll find the means to do it, this shooter could have acquired his armament illegaly, specially if he was 20, I think you have to be 21 to buy those kinds of weapons..

Yeah, and part of the problem is US guns being smuggled into Mexico... guns purchased from licensed gun dealers...

There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.

While we are banning guns lets also ban kitchen knives and meat cleavers shall we?

Not saying gun laws are appropriate how they stand now but the answer is not always giving up more rights.

Actually, I was just gonna link the Chinese mass stabbing at a school... seriously, what's up with people this week? Everyone is going batty... is there something in the water? in the air? end of days craziness?

The WHY is because these people are NUTS... and nothing wrong with trying to prevent NUTS from getting stuff they can use to hurt others... which is what Shoju and I talked about.

Gab wrote:There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.

Part of the maturity argument is that often times people in positions of power don't want to believe that the WHYs can be things like mental illness and other disorders that remove full culpability from the actor. As long as the people with power continue to act like immature children about even discussing positive steps towards saner gun and mental health laws that can be a step towards preventing gun violence it becomes this circular reasoning behind the not mature enough for guns argument.

Shoju wrote:And I don't think the answer to this unspeakable tragedy is to over react, and scream about gun control.

not directly at you, but the line of thought of "now isn't the time to talk about gun control reforms" after mass shootings is dumbtarded. If not then, when?

We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.

Flex wrote:not directly at you, but the line of thought of "now isn't the time to talk about gun control reforms" after mass shootings is dumbtarded. If not then, when?

I understand, and don't take it personally. Don't take this personally in response. Its my general response to the question.

I personally think that Mass Shootings and Gun Violence are separate, if linked, tragedies. Gun Control isn't going to stop a mass shooting. If you have it in your mind that you are going to perpetrate a mass violent crime, the last thing you are thinking about is "Golly Gee, I wonder if I can go to the store and bah mah gun"

You can see the Aurora case as an example. Most of those firearms were purchased, over the internet. Gun Control didn't stop that. Several of the weapons that were purchased and used were illegal to own in Colorado without significant licensing. That didn't stop the purchase. The Gun Control didn't work.

And the idea that mass shootings are the only mass violence, one only needs to look to china today, and see a man who attacked 23 people, 22 children, with a Knife. Chinese gun regulations are supremely strict (almost no private ownership), yet there have been a half dozen ish acts of mass violence in recents years perpetrated against young children, by people wielding blunt, or bladed instruments.

With great power (gun ownership) comes great responsibility. I'm 100% in favor of far more stringent regulations on owning a gun, including a psychiatric profile as a possibility. But this can only work hand in hand with a society that gets its fingers out of its ears, and off its ass about Mental Health. The U.S. is deaf and dumb when it comes to mental health. It's only been recently that we have even thought about it as a serious after care for our returning troops. Mental Health Care is still a taboo subject, and until we strip away that taboo of it, and get down to the brass tacks of it, we are going to have problems.

Gab wrote:There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.

Part of the maturity argument is that often times people in positions of power don't want to believe that the WHYs can be things like mental illness and other disorders that remove full culpability from the actor. As long as the people with power continue to act like immature children about even discussing positive steps towards saner gun and mental health laws that can be a step towards preventing gun violence it becomes this circular reasoning behind the not mature enough for guns argument.

That's key here. If we can't find a way to keep legally acquired weapons out of potential murderers hands then we obviously should have tighter weapon control but where does it start and where does it end?

I'll just leave this here, for a country that has been implementing stricter gun control they sure didn't account for all the kitchen utensils.

We're basically ruled by children. Any talk of revising and reviewing gun laws is met with anything from "they're taking our guns" to "this is the first step to socialism and UN take over of the United States." Look at the UN disability treaty to see that that mindset isn't just left to the far right paranoid wing.

We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.

Flex wrote:We're basically ruled by children. Any talk of revising and reviewing gun laws is met with anything from "they're taking our guns" to "this is the first step to socialism and UN take over of the United States." Look at the UN disability treaty to see that that mindset isn't just left to the far right paranoid wing.

Sadly, this is 100% true.

They will say that its a ruse to prevent the common man access to guns, therefore making it easier for the UN to steamroll into the US and install a new socialist regime.

Hold up. The PRIMARY users of guns are ordinary citizens using them for self defense. Are you suggesting that's not a legitimate use?

(Aside: Can we please move all of this discussion to one of the appropriate Asylum threads? There's already a "gun" thread there, and the Politics one would work as well.)

... the fact that more potential voters are swayed by a few trivial comments 10 years ago than a candidate literally collapsing is not a good sign and tends to indicate that even if Trump wins, it won't matter.

No electorate that stupid is going to survive long, one way or another.

Hold up. The PRIMARY users of guns are ordinary citizens using them for self defense. Are you suggesting that's not a legitimate use?

(Aside: Can we please move all of this discussion to one of the appropriate Asylum threads? There's already a "gun" thread there, and the Politics one would work as well.)

Wait, a gun thread in asylum? never seen it... I'm ok with moving this to the politics thread...

That said, I live in Texas, we got a castle law... and during the time I had firearms, I only used them at the shooting range and for hunting... I am glad I never used them for self-defense, and I hope I will not need them now that I don't have them. I got knives and airsoft guns, hopefully that is enough to scare the shit out of a trespasser, but my neighborhood is incredibly safe, that and I have a beefy alarm system in the house.

As DPS the MSV Q's have been quick, I usually Q when I start a set of dailies, I finish the 5-6 quest and the LFR pops up, but yesterday I got a HoF first part at 30 mins, and it was 2/3, when I finished the 2/3 I tried for a fresh one, that took 50 mins...

I want to think some of it has to do with people finishing their legendary gem questlines but who knows.

I mean to be honest it's not a big deal for me because despite the fact I've done close to no raiding this expansion the valor rewards/sha loot/LFR loot that I have gotten have made running LFR pointless now but damn I even tried queuing as heals and still waited over 20 minutes before I said screw it.

theckhd wrote:Don't be too strict about that on a progression kill though. When my survivability was being seriously challenged, it wasn't uncommon for me to delay HA by 10-15 seconds for a gas phase if it felt necessary, and I'd blow the other cooldowns on melee phases that looked hairy. Once it was on farm, I started just going for max DPS because why the hell not?

Well to be fair, Sag isn't the one dying, so I'm pretty comfortable with his ability to handle it.Nota Bene for Sag,feel free to follow up with gurz on whats been discussed here - you are the main tank after all (and we'll back you up of needed - though I don't think it will).

On will, I'm considering - Vampiric Blood won't be enough for the heavy damage phases, will it? (but what else does a DK have, apart from IBF on a.. 3 minute CD)Edit: IBF for 50% on a 3 minute CD, Vampiric Blood for 25% reduction (and 15% healing recieved) on a 1 minute CD and Bone Shield for 20% reduction on a 1 min cd - thats about equal to Paladin with GAnK, AD and DP (glyphed).

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPSAmirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego. Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.