Originally posted by TrueBrit
I am a Christian, and I completely agree with Rowan Williams on this. Persecution has no soft end. There is either terrible persecution, Christians
stoned in the streets, butchered by packs of slavering atheists, homosexuals, and persons of other faiths, or there is not.

I'm not going to annoy by reposting your entire post, to which I respond.

Originally posted by FFS4000
It's to make up for all the laws that used to be in place forcing people to church on a sunday, even if they had no interest in being there

Man I hate talking to people who go to church because they have to or think they have to to please God or to please the memory of a long dead
authority figure from their past, those people are dried up old bones, a discredit to Christ. I would be more than happy to get rid of all organized
church and let the true Christians shine and the religious ones sink.

I agree and disagree, you cannot lump every soul in the church into one category, and church institution and organizations do a lot of good in my the
community. Four churches in our area, which is mostly poor, feed and clothe people and there is the soup kitchen and the church run homeless
shelters.

Originally posted by BellaSabre
So acquiesce to bullying and intimidation? I don't think that's the way we're wired.

At least not me...... those of you who agree with Williams.... go right ahead and enjoy. Sissies. You know the best way to deal with a bully is to
stand up to them.

Our wiring is against our better judgment, firstly.

Secondly no one says "be a sissy." What I say is "you have seen nothing yet, little baby."

It is a little annoying to hear people whine like little girls when words offend them so easily. The best way to deal with a bully is to put on
impenetrable armor. And the only way to put on impenetrable armor is to develop thick skin. Thick skin is a callus that comes by much constant
irritation, endurance, and eventually, to maintain the callus, technique. Then the only way one could hurt you is your heart, if they could ever
penetrate your skin. Depends on how much willpower you have (or God has for you, which I know is more true, because I used to think I had willpower
until many things).

If you play acoustic guitar, you know how it can be painful and the calluses eventually develop, and especially if you're sliding and picking wildly,
you can still bleed, but it is hardly a big deal. But if you hand an acoustic guitar to someone who has never played, or even to an electric
guitarist, or even someone who is used to small strings and low action; they will enjoy for a few moments and then say, "I don't know how you do
that. It just hurts too much after a while."

Because I kept going. I didn't whine when it hurt. I just kept going.

Rip my fingers apart, what do I care? I care about the music, not my skin.

That's the point.

Now playing guitar is more difficult than most "persecution" self-proclaimed Christians suffer today. But it's a million times easier than really
being treated like a dog; a cute dog by some, an ugly one by others, but a dog nevertheless.

But at least the humans don't beat us every chance they get over here; not yet. They just demean you until you realize that you are what they think
you are, a useless animal.

Then you eventually learn that is what your flesh really is. All it wants is animalistic in nature, really. Once you learn what your house is, then
you learn that it is not the house that matters, but what is inside the house that matters.

No bully can take away what is inside of you. Only you even have a chance of removing that, and not easily at that.

Self-proclaimed Christians today live WAY TOO FOCUSED on the flesh. Worried about where you live, what you eat, how much money you make, are you
providing enough for your kids, do you drink a beer before you pay the bills, do you do this and that, and the other.

And they use scripture to attack and say, "Bwahah you fail at the law, even what Jesus or Paul or Peter said!" And I say, "Yeah. I fail. Not on
purpose. But I fail. Thanks for noticing. I wouldn't have known that you were failing if you didn't just reveal to me by your hypocrisy... but I
see that you're failing, too. Well that's good, at least we have God's grace on our side, right? And by the way, my kids don't have to have
chocolate milk and chocolate chip pancakes every morning to live. Thanks."

Thank you for your good post, and I agree with much you said, truly I do. But it's a "pick your battles" situation, and some areas are too important
to simply let pass. Look at history, and what has become of groups of people who passively accepted the dogma and indoctrination of others.

As Americans, we have been ingrained with "stand up for what you believe" since we were born, beginning at home with our parents, and continuing
through teachers at school. For most of us, it is as much as who we are, as our eye color. There are people who would have us not be this way. Who
would have us shut-up, and accept whatever they toss our way.

I'm certainly not talking about picking up a gun, here, nor am I talking about lashing out at every little disagreement or slur. Fighting persecution
is not for the thin-skinned.

So which is the smart party, here? Is it the atheists, who live short, selfish, stunted little lives – often childless – before they approach
hopeless death in despair, and their worthless corpses are chucked in a trench (or, if they are wrong, they go to Hell)? Or is it the believers, who
live longer, happier, healthier, more generous lives, and who have more kids, and who go to their quietus with ritual dignity, expecting to be greeted
by a smiling and benevolent God?

Originally posted by BellaSabre
Thank you for your good post, and I agree with much you said, truly I do. But it's a "pick your battles" situation, and some areas are too
important to simply let pass. Look at history, and what has become of groups of people who passively accepted the dogma and indoctrination of
others.

As Americans, we have been ingrained with "stand up for what you believe" since we were born, beginning at home with our parents, and continuing
through teachers at school. For most of us, it is as much as who we are, as our eye color. There are people who would have us not be this way. Who
would have us shut-up, and accept whatever they toss our way.

I'm certainly not talking about picking up a gun, here, nor am I talking about lashing out at every little disagreement or slur. Fighting
persecution is not for the thin-skinned.

Here's another thing people have to realize about where this idea of "persecution" is coming from. It is something inherent to their belief, a
tenent of their type of faith. Here is an article from 18 YEARS AGO.

It is the coherence of the Christian Right's cultural institutions and ideological message that makes millions of people want to participate.
This is a political movement built on the foundation of some very tightly held religious views. We need to understand the religious sentiments of our
fellow citizens.

For evangelical Christians, one of the most politically relevant tenets is the idea that they are being persecuted by secular society. Sacrifice and
martyrdom are essential themes of the Christian faith. Translated into right-wing politics, the theme enables people to claim that queers and other
minorities are somehow attacking the dominant culture when they demand equality.

We have the most powerful political movement in the country continually claiming to be persecuted by "the left," which the right defines as the
Clinton Administration and centrist lobbies like People for the American Way. It is illogical, but the religious persecution theme keeps activists
mobilized and enables them to feel comfortable about trying to deprive other people of their civil rights.

When those in government or who aspire to govern create a defacto national religion by teaming up with and giving political clout to those certain
brands of Christianity that espouse this idea, then those that crave power over and control of citizenry will constantly proclaim they are being
persecuted in order to gain sympathy and support.

IMO, when faced with threats from the outside, the American (Far) Left looked inward as to the cause, self searching. (Thus was used the humorous
idea of "political correctness" against an insufferable member.) The American (Far) Right, however, when faced with threats from outside placed
blame on "the other". It was Communists and Godless people for those on the political and corporate Far Right; the Devil-made-me-do-it and
non-Christians or liberal Christians for religious folk.

When those with a mindset to blame others wield power, persecution of others can become rampant. and, if left unchecked, can do as Ghandi said, "An
eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." Jesus, also, wanted as much compassion for "the other" as for oneself.

Any religious adherent anywhere who goes overboard on the theme of sacrifice and martyrdom makes the world more dark.

thanks - did you mean to post something relevant to the OP - perhaps about the x-ian persecution complex - as well??

So by the thread posted for you Aloysius, if you don't believe in a fairly tale you are a nut? Hmm, that's interesting. Zombies, cannibalism,
slavery, and polygamy here we come I guess... gotta stay sane, right?

Honestly, I don't want my money that I am forced to give the government to be put toward funding abortions.

I honestly don't want the money I am forced to give the government used to keep churches tax exempt.
$92 Billion a year. Just because they "believe" something might be out there, and spend all their time telling people that there's a good chance
they are right.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
$92 Billion a year could fund universal health care.
I'm sure Jesus would approve of that.
The only people who don't approve are those who "don't like that particular bit of the bible."

edit on 16-8-2013 by Badgered1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-8-2013 by Badgered1 because: Syntax

edit
on 16-8-2013 by Badgered1 because: (no reason given)

Fine by me. I don't go to church anyway. Also think it would be delightful to see the Church of Scientology, among other groups, lose its
tax-exemption status. Yes, $92 billion a year could fund universal healthcare for a day or so, but people will keep dying and the government will keep
asking us for more money on the promise that we can keep that from happening. Personally, I would prefer the $92 billion go back to the people who
earned the $92 billion. I don't like most of what the government decides to fund with my money.

I'm sure you would know what Jesus would approve of today. Now, tell me, if I don't approve of the government's healthcare or this idea of
universal healthcare, what "particular bit of the Bible" do I not like? Fill me in.

The other day I saw this tweet by Persecution.org. They tweeted this story as if it happened yesterday. The arrests were in 2011. These men were
not sitting in prison or even jail, they were charged with a misdemeanor and that was the end of it. They probably wanted to be persecuted, they
perhaps wanted to have a greater story to tell, but the Judge did well in not obliging them with any more attention than they already sucked dry.
*note the comments to that tweet, already 70 had RT’d it and others buying the lie that this is a persecution story! Sheesh, people, get a critical
thinking cap.

This content community relies on user-generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.