I was thinking that if they gave everyone who actually attended BM a unique code, like a card with a scratch-able code on it. Then next year open up ticket sales to those codes first. Don't you think this could solve a lot of headaches? People who went would be assured the opportunity to go again and would not be victims to scalpers, 0% chance of that with this system. People who can't go could gift or maybe sell(god forbid) their code. I doubt there would be much of a secondary market for them and it would provide people a gifting opportunity. Could have a sub-forum in the ticket section for them to be gifted. Anyway, getting away from myself here. What do you guys think?

After the veteran code window they could just open up ticket sales like normal, or as a lottery, or whatever.

Last edited by pyrocat on Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

theCryptofishist wrote:"Oh, I lost my number! Why did you give it to me on the playa, I get playa brain...""O, I wasn't able to go last year, now I'm a second class citizen...""Oh, the DPW stole mine..."

...ad nauseum...

At least someone's thinking around here. Thank you for the reply. Maybe it could be digital? We buy our tickets digitally anyway. Make the system opt in each year then. Could do a registration system at the playa.

Since you asked… It seems very poorly thought out, impossible to actually administer, and unfair to people. It's resource intensive (making and sending out tens of thousands of scratch cards, plus the necessary work to handle it on the server end), it doesn't take into consideration that people may have moved between the time they purchased tickets last year and now, it doesn't take into consideration that some burners got their tickets indirectly or through a walk-in outlet (so BMOrg wouldn't have a mailing address on file), and it appears to penalize those who haven't been to the event (in addition to all the veterans mentioned above).

pyrocat wrote:I was thinking that if they gave everyone who actually attended BM a unique code, like a card with a scratch-able code on it. Then next year open up ticket sales to those codes first.

I keep seeing this attitude over and over. Veteran burners first... been 6 times... been 12 times... I don't understand it. Please enlighten me, why does seniority always get brought up as a factor? What makes you any better than me, because you've been before? How does that fit in with the 10 principles?

pyrocat wrote:People who went would be assured the opportunity to go again

trilobyte wrote:Since you asked… It seems very poorly thought out, impossible to actually administer, and unfair to people. It's resource intensive (making and sending out tens of thousands of scratch cards, plus the necessary work to handle it on the server end), it doesn't take into consideration that people may have moved between the time they purchased tickets last year and now, it doesn't take into consideration that some burners got their tickets indirectly or through a walk-in outlet (so BMOrg wouldn't have a mailing address on file), and it appears to penalize those who haven't been to the event (in addition to all the veterans mentioned above).

First of all, this is a fresh idea and it's not bound to a system yet. The scratch card thing was just an example. Sorry for not being clear. I really don't see what peoples physical address would have to do with anything. The valid point I think you raised is that this punishes new burners. Maybe this somehow also punishes veterans? I'm really not getting the connection there.

This would be incredibly simple to administer. Just ask on Reddit and you will get a dozen people willing to put it together. Probably not necessary as I'm sure BMORG ir perfectly capable.

Let's talk about the new burners issue. Lets say that the population cap is 50k and 50k people register for early ticket access at the event. If the population is not allowed to grow then absolutely. So how bad is that really? Would it be bad if new burners where introduced by vets who hand down there code because they couldn't go? Do you really think every burner is going to pre-register or use the system to get their ticket early? There will still be a pool of tickets to be sold, IMO. This just removes a shit-ton of stress on people who have their shit together.

One problem is that it's not clear that BM wants to give preference to returning burners over virgins. A good quantity of virgins is desired to bring in new blood and ideas. Virgins are the source of the future's artists. As such, you would only want a mild preference for veterans.

In addition, you would have the issue of people selling any chit that assured a ticket, particularly if they are not coming back anyway. There are techniques to tie the chit to a person though they have some administrative cost. But even then, people could sell not the chit, but the tickets it gives them if they are not returning. If everybody gets a chit who was there in 2011, that's most of the tickets if they were all used. Not that they would be but still.

pyrocat wrote:I was thinking that if they gave everyone who actually attended BM a unique code, like a card with a scratch-able code on it. Then next year open up ticket sales to those codes first.

I keep seeing this attitude over and over. Veteran burners first... been 6 times... been 12 times... I don't understand it. Please enlighten me, why does seniority always get brought up as a factor? What makes you any better than me, because you've been before? How does that fit in with the 10 principles?

pyrocat wrote:People who went would be assured the opportunity to go again

Nothing in life is ever assured beyond the fact that you will die.

I really don't think this has anything to do with elitism. Certainly not for me since I have never been. I'm sure there is a possibility for that if population caps don't increase with demand. I think this could just solve a bunch of different issues I see presented in this forum. Just trying to think in a solution oriented manner, sorry if it's not as entertaining as the crazy shit people are posting.

trilobyte wrote:Since you asked… It seems very poorly thought out, impossible to actually administer, and unfair to people. It's resource intensive (making and sending out tens of thousands of scratch cards, plus the necessary work to handle it on the server end), it doesn't take into consideration that people may have moved between the time they purchased tickets last year and now, it doesn't take into consideration that some burners got their tickets indirectly or through a walk-in outlet (so BMOrg wouldn't have a mailing address on file), and it appears to penalize those who haven't been to the event (in addition to all the veterans mentioned above).

First of all, this is a fresh idea and it's not bound to a system yet. The scratch card thing was just an example. Sorry for not being clear. I really don't see what peoples physical address would have to do with anything. The valid point I think you raised is that this punishes new burners. Maybe this somehow also punishes veterans? I'm really not getting the connection there.

This would be incredibly simple to administer. Just ask on Reddit and you will get a dozen people willing to put it together. Probably not necessary as I'm sure BMORG ir perfectly capable.

Let's talk about the new burners issue. Lets say that the population cap is 50k and 50k people register for early ticket access at the event. If the population is not allowed to grow then absolutely. So how bad is that really? Would it be bad if new burners where introduced by vets who hand down there code because they couldn't go? Do you really think every burner is going to pre-register or use the system to get their ticket early? There will still be a pool of tickets to be sold, IMO. This just removes a shit-ton of stress on people who have their shit together.

I'm a noob 2012 virgin... I really admire your creativity, thinking outside the box, but, I feel like I'd be left out as I don't know any vets? Just saying...It would indeed reduce the stress to many people, but wouldn't it put alot of stress on someone like me trying to get "in". Of course, there would be an opportunity to get a ticket through "unclaimed/unused vet codes" and perhaps there is something about seniority or preferential ticketing, as it were, that I'd feel differently about if I was on the other side. But from this side it feels a little like I'd have to have my shit more than together as a first year - I'd have to find a sponsor?

bigdane wrote:I'm a noob 2012 virgin...while I admire you creativity I'd be left out as I don't know any vets? Just saying...It would indeed reduce the stress to many people, but wouldn't it put alot of stress on someone like me trying to get "in". Of course, there would be an opportunity to get a ticket through "unclaimed/unused vet codes" and perhaps there is something about seniority or preferential ticketing, as it were, that I'd feel differently about if I was on the other side. But from this side it feels a little like I'd have to have my shit more than together as a first year - I'd have to find a sponsor?

I think ultimately, what you get is a lottery for the virgins.. and maybe people trying to game the lottery but I'm sure there would be tickets to sell. I don't think everyone would register or follow through. I think a system like this can self regulate. Especially if the population grows with demand. I think this just removes the lottery stress for people. They could also widen this system to have pools available for art installs\theme camp crews.

pyrocat wrote:I was thinking that if they gave everyone who actually attended BM a unique code...

Godwin's Law invoked.

The system as we know it already involves us giving them our personal information\credit card anyway so I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this.. I guess you could use a pre-paid anonymous credit card? I'll default to this should be an opt-in system

pyrocat wrote:I was thinking that if they gave everyone who actually attended BM a unique code...

Godwin's Law invoked.

The system as we know it already involves us giving them our personal information\credit card anyway so I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this.. I guess you could use a pre-paid anonymous credit card? I'll default to this should be an opt-in system

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I think I understand where you're coming from, and the plan sounds even worse now. By "going forward" you don't mean with the 2012 burn, but for 2013 and beyond. And your plan involves what, handing out physical scratchers on the playa? That seems even more manually intensive, to say nothing of the potential headaches associated with lost or stolen cards, and the system still gives an unfair advantage to current year participants (requiring both new and long-time burners who took the year off to wait until after the pre-sales). I still think it's an extremely poor idea for this event.

trilobyte wrote:I think I understand where you're coming from, and the plan sounds even worse now. By "going forward" you don't mean with the 2012 burn, but for 2013 and beyond. And your plan involves what, handing out physical scratchers on the playa? That seems even more manually intensive, to say nothing of the potential headaches associated with lost or stolen cards, and the system still gives an unfair advantage to current year participants (requiring both new and long-time burners who took the year off to wait until after the pre-sales). I still think it's an extremely poor idea for this event.

That's because you completely missed my reply to you or you didn't read it. Actually, never mind. I think you're just trolling me like the others. Night all.

Last edited by pyrocat on Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just because I didn't do the lame 'quote the whole message' thing, don't presume it wasn't read. "First of all, this is a fresh idea and it's not bound to a system yet…" read and understood, I still think it's a terrible plan. Sorry.