I have watched as many games this year as I could, about 14, and I have been very dissapointed with Stockar. He gets too many false starts, and he can't seem to pass block very well. His run blocking is decent, but what do you all think about a middle round draft pick at his position and/or FA. I think damian will be better next year. I do not know about lovern and his postion. he was not impressive at all. Thoughts?

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

Last edited by bsand2053 on January 6th, 2005, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stockar is a good run blocker. But I feel if we could get a top FA or a high rated Olineman with our top pick (Elton Brown) would help out a whole lot IMO

and another spot we need to improve is safty and I dont think that a safty in this draft will be worth taking till the third round so I hope for a good FA Daruis from jags would be awsome.

January 6th, 2005, 12:21 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9596Location: Dallas

Re: Stockar

bsand2053 wrote:

I have watched as many games this year as I could, about 14, and I have been severly dissapointed with Stockar. He gets too many false starts, and he can't seem to pass block very well. His run blocking is decent, but what do you all think about a middle round draft pick at his position and/or FA. I think damian will be better next year. I do not know about lovern and his postion. he was not impressive at all. Thoughts?

First, welcome to the LB Board bsand2053!

Stockar is a tough call this offseason. The Lions drafting an OT will depend on 1) if they resign Stockar, 2) if they sign another FA or 3) if they feel Kelly Butler can play RG.

Stockar didn't play very well this season but he did have nagging injuries all year (and didn't complain once about them). Also, Stockar and Damien on the right side of the line provided, by far, the best run blocking along the line.

Loverne didn't show me anything this year. LG is a huge are of need for the Lions. Raiola at center played better in the last few weeks but I'm not convinced he is a quality starting NFL center. That's two holes already on the o-line without looking at McDougle.

I also think the Lions need to think into the future and start thinking what they may do with Backus next year who becomes a FA. They basically should be deciding which of the two (or both) they see in their long-term plans. If Backus is out, they should strongly consider signing Stockar. If Backus is in the long term plans, they might not make a big push to get Stockar to resign.

Bottom line, I think the Lions have to take a long-term look at the line and start making personnel decisions that are part of a 2 year plan in terms of FA and the draft.

I forgot that Stockar was injured. I never warmed up to him. especially after Backus made 3 oliners in a row in the first round.

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

January 6th, 2005, 12:38 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

Re: Stockar

Pablo wrote:

Stockar didn't play very well this season but he did have nagging injuries all year (and didn't complain once about them).

To me that has always been the case with Stockar...hasn't he been injured every season at some point since we have had him??

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

January 6th, 2005, 12:43 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9596Location: Dallas

true, the Lions weren't having much success (especially under the Bobby Ross watch) with drafting o-linemen in the first round. CB's either for that matter. It does kinda make you gunshy on taking a OL with the 10th pick.

Gibson is already gone, McDougle could be gone after this year and Backus next year. If you draft lineman that high, you expect them to dominate for 10+ years.

Heck, I remember this absolute can't miss OL prospect out of MSU back in 1989. That makes you think twice about taking an OL early as well.

The other 3 seemed to work out quite well. As a Lions fan, thank you Green Bay for your 1989 #2 overall pick.

January 6th, 2005, 12:46 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

Well then the question is where do you guys feel Backus is at skillwise? There were only good things said about him the 1st 2 years...is he average, below average, ???

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

January 6th, 2005, 12:51 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9596Location: Dallas

my take on Backus is he is a below average LT. He is decent a pass blocking but gets little if any push at the line. I've seen little, if any, improvement by him. IMO - he is still playing at about the same level he did his rookie year. Now with that said, I also have to take a look at the two guys playing next to him...

LT (Backus) - LG (Loverne) - C (Raiola)

Loverne isn't a starter in this league. Joyce, who filled in for him, is better imo but is also a backup. Raiola is undersized. Perhaps if Backus had a better LG/C combo next to him he would be more effective. But I still don't see him able to get a push going and it would be nice if KJ could effectively run behind the left side of the line and/or break it outside to the left.

January 6th, 2005, 1:03 pm

theAlphaMale

Site Admin

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 1:25 amPosts: 4920Location: Hills of Auburn

damn...the more you talk about our line the more depressing it is. How is Hutchinson doing in Seattle...I was so bummed when he got grabbed right b4 we had a chance to get him. He seemed like a badarse.

_________________Regards, Alpha|Lionbacker.com \(^o^)/"I date this girl for two years and then the nagging starts: I wanna know your name..." - Mike Binder

Loverne isn't a starter in this league. Joyce, who filled in for him, is better imo but is also a backup. Raiola is undersized. Perhaps if Backus had a better LG/C combo next to him he would be more effective. But I still don't see him able to get a push going and it would be nice if KJ could effectively run behind the left side of the line and/or break it outside to the left.

What about KJ's last game v. the Titants? He couldn't seem to get through the line of scrimmage as much as previous games. It seemed like there weren't many holes for him to hit. Whose fault, line or Kevin Jones?

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

I bame the fact that we have no deep threat or any other WR than Williams. the titans saw that the Lions were depending on jones so they put 8 men in the box and they stuffed the run. That is why Rogers staying healthy next year will be big help.

You know how good Roy was in the beginning of the season. CRog will be even better. He looks like, dare I say it, Jerry Rice, from the little we've seen of him. That TD Roy caught early in the season looked like Randy Moss with the toes on the turf. Joey is the X factor in this. If he can get confident and accurate down the field, this team will be unstoppable with a decent oline. Two big ifs though.

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.

January 6th, 2005, 2:49 pm

spiderman

All State

Joined: August 11th, 2004, 1:38 pmPosts: 367Location: on the web

bsand2053 wrote:

You know how good Roy was in the beginning of the season. CRog will be even better.

i agree with that. i think, if healthy of course, crog will be amazing.

bsand2053 wrote:

He looks like, dare I say it, Jerry Rice, from the little we've seen of him.

not sure if you should dare to say that. rice was "the man"

bsand2053 wrote:

Joey is the X factor in this. If he can get confident and accurate down the field, this team will be unstoppable with a decent oline. Two big ifs though.

LOL
I guess I did go to far.
Rogers is the stuff and will immediatly challange Tory, Randy, Marvin, Reggie, and TO for the best WR in football. IFIFIFIFIFIFIFIF Joey Ballgame and the Oline can get their act together, we will be better than KC two years ago. We already have a better defense and special team. Mooch has said that we have the best two minute team except for KC, and with an improved (wow) King Jones, Roy and CRog and all that was mentioned above, watch out NFC. If we can get Stockar and Jeff and Damien and David and Matt fired up and like Denver's line, we will be in good shape with a defensive draft. I don't know what everyone is crying about Hakim for, he is one of the best slot reciever in the game.

_________________"If he isn't the best football player, the best runner, that the Lord has ever made, then the Lord has yet to make one." Wayne Fontes on Barry.