American super-patriot to Putin: Russia doesn’t conduct mass surveillance like the U.S. does, right?

posted at 11:21 am on April 17, 2014 by Allahpundit

Ed flagged this earlier but I want to make sure people see the clip. Apparently not even Snowden journalist/spokesman Glenn Greenwald knew this was coming, since here’s the best he could do this morning by way of spin:

Snowden should storm the Kremlin, take their surveillance docs & demand to be sent to the US: just like his brave patriotic critics would do

Only two possibilities here. One: There’s an FSB agent out of frame with a gun pointed at Snowden’s head, just to make sure that he reads the cue card as written. In that case, decide for yourself how likely it is that Snowden’s refused to share any U.S. state secrets with Russian intel. Two: He’s doing this cheerfully, either at Putin’s request as a condition of his asylum or at his own request, to exploit a Putin press conference as a way to further needle the NSA. Whatever the answer, the stark fact is that he’s asking a question here which he knows — absolutely knows — will generate a self-serving lie told by a guy who embodies the type of fascism that Snowden claims to abhor. For your information, the name of Russia’s mass surveillance program, a.k.a. “PRISM on steroids,” is the System of Operative-Investigative Measures, or SORM. Via Joshua Foust, they’ve been using it for years but lately, as in so many other ways, they’ve gotten more aggressive with it. A taste:

But the Russian surveillance effort is not limited to the Sochi area, nor confined to foreigners. For years, Russian secret services have been busy tightening their hold over Internet users in their country, and now they’re helping their counterparts in the rest of the former Soviet Union do the same. In the future, Russia may even succeed in splintering the web, breaking off from the global Internet a Russian intranet that’s easier for it to control.

Over the last two years, the Kremlin has transformed Russia into a surveillance state—at a level that would have made the Soviet KGB (Committe for State Security) envious. Seven Russian investigative and security agencies have been granted the legal right to intercept phone calls and emails…

In 2011-2012, while protesters flooded Moscow’s streets, the phones of a number of Russian opposition leaders and members of the State Duma were hacked. Recordings of their private telephone conversations were even published online. On December 19, 2011, audio-files of nine tapped phone calls of Boris Nemtsov, a former deputy prime minister and now a prominent opposition leader, were posted on the pro-government site lifenews.ru. Nemtsov requested an official investigation. As yet, none of the leakers have been found or prosecuted, and the official investigation has not identified a single culprit.

Such victims have no doubt they were bugged and filmed by security services, but only in the fall of 2012 did the first clear indication emerge that SORM was used to wiretap opponents of President Vladimir Putin. On November 12, 2012, Russia’s Supreme Court upheld the right of authorities to eavesdrop on the opposition. The court ruled that spying on Maxim Petlin, a regional opposition leader in Yekaterinburg, was lawful since he had taken part in rallies that included calls against extending the powers of Russia’s security services. The court decided that these were demands for “extremist actions” and approved surveillance and telephone interception.

They’ve used SORM more frequently lately to try to sniff out any Arab-Spring-like protest movements before they get traction. And they’ve complemented their surveillance by censoring hundreds of disfavored websites, no doubt concluding that silencing critics altogether is a more efficient way to neutralize them than monitoring their communications systematically. In fact, the authors of the piece quoted above speculate that Snowden’s main propaganda value to Russia is to help put pressure on popular American sites like Facebook to create separate Russian sites if they want to serve Russian customers. Facebook can’t be trusted so long as it’s being penetrated by the NSA — but it can absolutely be trusted, you see, once it’s being hosted on Russian soil and being penetrated by the FSB (assuming it hasn’t been already). That, presumably, explains Snowden’s softball question to Putin today. Putin wants to assure Russians, surreally, that their data is safer with him than it is with American websites. Who better to tee him up for that question than noble American super-patriot Edward Snowden, the man who blew the lid off NSA surveillance?

Imagine the mindset it takes to pose a question like this, in all apparent earnestness, to someone who’s spent the past two months pretending that the professionally-outfitted soldiers who’ve appeared in Crimea and eastern Ukraine are homegrown “pro-Russian activists.” That’s such an egregious lie, it barely qualifies as a lie; there’s no real intent to deceive behind it, just a formalistic refusal to accept responsibility. Snowden’s seen a news report or two about it, I take it, and yet here he is, pitching his benefactor the softball of softballs. You’re welcome, Vladimir.

Trackbacks/Pings

Comments

No Russia does not conduct surveillance like the us does because they can’t. They don’t have the technology. I didn’t not Putin to tell me that. Putin has wet dreams and these dreams is for Russia to one day have such capability.

The NSA has reached a technological advantage in surveillance that turn Russia and China green with envy.

@aplombed. Have you been paying attention to the revelations about the NSA? Their capability is way beyond that of the Russians and Chinese. If you choose to pretend that Russia and China has better technology than I won’t shake you out if your illusion.

But I can read and I know better. When it comes to surveillance the NSA has no peers. None. It is a fact that is indisputable.

OK. The communists have been controlling and surveilling there citizens long before NSA came into existence. If you think they are somehow deficient in this regard, you are simply naive. As they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat…

@working-glass there is always the guy who doesn’t care to know what their government is up to and wish they would stay ignorant of its actions forever. You may not like snowden, but he has put a debate forward that needed to be debated. Are Americans willing to accept their country becoming a surveillance state in the name of security or not. It may very we’ll be that Americans care more about security than they do about freedom, but now they get to make an informed decision as to what kind of country they want. No one can say 10 or 20 years down the line that they did not know what they were getting when they voted for president x or y or senator x or y when he said he wanted to expand or keep the NSA as is. If we keep going down this path we all know what we are getting and we are all in on it.

@aplombed. Have you been paying attention to the revelations about the NSA? Their capability is way beyond that of the Russians and Chinese. If you choose to pretend that Russia and China has better technology than I won’t shake you out if your illusion.

But I can read and I know better. When it comes to surveillance the NSA has no peers. None. It is a fact that is indisputable.

It is time for the Snowden is a Patriot wing to suck it up and admit he is a traitor. No matter how it is spun he is actively engaging in propaganda against America in this clip. I think if I were a Rand Paul right now I would be praying for Snowden to croak before he comes back to hurt him more.

You say that as if there is any doubt about Snowden. There isn’t. If there was anything honorable in what he did, let him come home and defend his actions. I’m sure you and like-minded morons would more than pay for his legal defense.

You say that as if there is any doubt about Snowden. There isn’t. If there was anything honorable in what he did, let him come home and defend his actions. I’m sure you and like-minded morons would more than pay for his legal defense.

Snowden’s heart may be in the right place, but it is sorely eclipsed by his naiveté.

Tater Salad on April 17, 2014 at 11:53 AM

Oh please! No offense but this is as stupid as those who use the word patriot or hero to describe Snowden. He didn’t spark debate as one commentator wrote….. He stole the keys to the kingdom and shared all that he stole with Russia, China, and left-leaning journalists.

There was no naivete in Snowden’s actions and his heart definitely was not in the right place, no matter what you think of what NSA was/is doing.

It is time for the Snowden is a Patriot wing to suck it up and admit he is a traitor. No matter how it is spun he is actively engaging in propaganda against America in this clip. I think if I were a Rand Paul right now I would be praying for Snowden to croak before he comes back to hurt him more.

Southernblogger on April 17, 2014 at 11:52 AM

The point of this story has never been about Snowden himself.

The fact that so many are so ready to throw off the 4th amendment and allow the NSA to casually break the law is very telling.

But I guess only very small minority of Americans actually believe in all of the the Bill of Rights anymore.

@working-glass there is always the guy who doesn’t care to know what their government is up to and wish they would stay ignorant of its actions forever. You may not like snowden, but he has put a debate forward that needed to be debated. Are Americans willing to accept their country becoming a surveillance state in the name of security or not. It may very we’ll be that Americans care more about security than they do about freedom, but now they get to make an informed decision as to what kind of country they want. No one can say 10 or 20 years down the line that they did not know what they were getting when they voted for president x or y or senator x or y when he said he wanted to expand or keep the NSA as is. If we keep going down this path we all know what we are getting and we are all in on it.

This was stupid of Snowden to do – and obviously he’s not coming back to America, and is literally living on borrowed time at this point. However;

The simple fact of the matter is that this is not about Snowden, Putin, Russia, China or anywhere else.

It’s about finding out that in America, today, under Barack Obama and his Administration, we are ALL having our phone conversations tapped, our electronic communications monitored and stored for future data mining, and Microsoft, Apple and other software makers have secretly been building in back door access for the government to use to access any and all our data. Furthermore, our government has lied under Oath about this spying, and has refused to disclose information demanded of it – by elected representatives no less – believing it’s all protected by secret court jurisdiction.

We can whine and cajole about our “moral superiority” compared to any and every one if we want, but the reality is that right here, in America, in absolute contravention to our Law, our morals and our knowledge of history, we are creating and allowing, the most pervasive and invasive spying program in the history of mankind.

@jerryofa. If you were German after ww2 you would have been one of these Germans whom swore they didn’t know that when their Jewish neighbors were been rounded up by the nazis that they were not been sent on all paid vacation to the beach.

How do I know that the NSA has technology beyond that of Russia and China? Snowmen that how. I knew the NSA spied, but I did not know how well they have gotten at watching citizens not just enemies. I really didn’t know how pervasive and ultimate their abilities were. The great cyber wall of China is one of the leakiest wall in the world. But you can’t escape the NSA. You can’t escape it here. You can’t escape there, you can’t escape anywhere. I joked once that the only way to escape NSA surveillance is to move to the moon. Even there I doubt you can escape it.

You say that as if there is any doubt about Snowden. There isn’t. If there was anything honorable in what he did, let him come home and defend his actions. I’m sure you and like-minded morons would more than pay for his legal defense. Happy Nomad on April 17, 2014 at 11:53 AM

You omitted this from my post: The US is now doing what every dictator in history wishes he could do.

Are you okay with that? I’d rather be governed by evil men with no power than good men with all power. Right now we are governed by men whose virtue scale runs from highly questionable at best to wanna be Stalins.

When I pass speed traps I blink my lights at the oncoming traffic. I don’t care if its legal, speed traps are chickensh!t, so I’ll risk the consequences of warning my fellow citizens of the potential problem.

I’m glad Snowden blinked his lights at us.

Had the govt not built up a surveillance state, monitoring and tracking and filming its supposedly free citizens like prisoners, maybe I’d be angry about whatever damage to national security he supposedly did, of which I’ve seen nothing but accusations to date.

This govt has been treating us like enemies, de facto placing us in the same camp as actual enemies. I didn’t start that process, neither did Snowden.

Anyone notice how Putin tapped his finger in the beginning of his scripted answer, then, he shifts his body, almost rising from his chair, when he speaks of Russian Law.
A bit jumpy for even for Beelze-bozo.

That question was realy for the godddamned idiots in this country who think Snowden is a dreamy superhero for outing our surveillence methods and capabilities. They rail against the NSA action without a single concern about what else Snowden exposed while doing it.

It’s all about technology and the all pervasive ‘need to know’. Tech will always be way ahead of any efforts to ‘control’ it and, like Capitalism, it is amoral, subject only to the ability to attempt to control it (re NSA domestic snooping) through the political process, which can be corrupted by parochial machinations, moral cowardice and the real desire of a need ‘not to know’ (plausible denial). I was stationed for a time at NSA in the 1870’s (ahem) and was shocked at the level of paranoia, infighting and a large population of pencil-necked geeks, ignorant of the Constitution and hell bent to push the techy envelope because they could.

@jerryofa. If you were German after ww2 you would have been one of these Germans whom swore they didn’t know that when their Jewish neighbors were been rounded up by the nazis that they were not been sent on all paid vacation to the beach.

How do I know that the NSA has technology beyond that of Russia and China? Snowmen that how. I knew the NSA spied, but I did not know how well they have gotten at watching citizens not just enemies. I really didn’t know how pervasive and ultimate their abilities were. The great cyber wall of China is one of the leakiest wall in the world. But you can’t escape the NSA. You can’t escape it here. You can’t escape there, you can’t escape anywhere. I joked once that the only way to escape NSA surveillance is to move to the moon. Even there I doubt you can escape it.

coolrepublica on April 17, 2014 at 12:11 PM

And with that German statement, you have blown all of your credibility. The US might be better at harvesting electronic information due to being able to buy better equipment, but Russia has been spying on its citizens since before the US was a country. The Tsars had the dreaded secret police, that continued through Soviet times and up to today. The president is a former KGB agent for crying out loud.

Snowden’s revelation about the extend of the US government’s harvesting of our electronic data is good. But everything else about him is treasonous.

@jerryofa. If you were German after ww2 you would have been one of these Germans whom [?] swore they didn’t know that when their Jewish neighbors were been [?] rounded up by the nazis that they were not been [?] sent on all paid vacation to the beach. coolrepublica on April 17, 2014 at 12:11 PM

Ok thanks for that, now that we see that you’re an illiterate lunatic we can stop pretending to take you seriously.

Oh please! No offense but this is as stupid as those who use the word patriot or hero to describe Snowden. He didn’t spark debate as one commentator wrote….. He stole the keys to the kingdom and shared all that he stole with Russia, China, and left-leaning journalists.

There was no naivete in Snowden’s actions and his heart definitely was not in the right place, no matter what you think of what NSA was/is doing.

Only two possibilities here. One: There’s an FSB agent out of frame with a gun pointed at Snowden’s head, just to make sure that he reads the cue card as written. In that case, decide for yourself how likely it is that Snowden’s refused to share any U.S. state secrets with Russian intel. Two: He’s doing this cheerfully, either at Putin’s request as a condition of his asylum or at his own request, to exploit a Putin press conference as a way to further needle the NSA.

I’ll take door number two, with the addition that Snowden is now (and possibly was while a NSA contract employee) a FSB agent. After all, how better to throw a significant portion of the populace, which cannot appreciate the (potential) duality, off your scent than by first revealing how your target spied on said domestic populace?

Only two possibilities here. One: There’s an FSB agent out of frame with a gun pointed at Snowden’s head, just to make sure that he reads the cue card as written. In that case, decide for yourself how likely it is that Snowden’s refused to share any U.S. state secrets with Russian intel. Two: He’s doing this cheerfully, either at Putin’s request as a condition of his asylum or at his own request, to exploit a Putin press conference as a way to further needle the NSA.

Third possibility: He is, and has always been, either sympathetic to or directly employed by the Russians, his entire song and dance about wishing he could return to the good ole USA he loves dearly is a crock, and this is just more propaganda from him designed to bolster the Russians and discredit the United States.

There was no naivete in Snowden’s actions and his heart definitely was not in the right place, no matter what you think of what NSA was/is doing.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2014 at 12:02 PM

So you’re all good with giving up all your liberty for “security” and throwing your 4th Amendment protections in the trash. Well, I’m not good with any of that. Technology will only improve faster now that Snowden has rendered whatever we were doing obsolete. I’m all good with that as long as our technology is ONLY USED ON OUR ENEMIES, NOT ON OUR LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

You are a fool and a tool. A surveillance state is not a free state, and your freedom and liberty exist only in inverse proportion to government surveillance. We the People now fear our increasingly tyrannical and lawless government. Time to turn that table.

Here they go again, trying to divert attention from the NSA to whatever, in this case, “Oh, look at Snowden”. Who the hell cares about Snowden, but some NSA propagandist or lackey? What is he, the new Jewish Whipping Boy? That’s about it.

How do I know that the NSA has technology beyond that of Russia and China? Snowmen that how. I knew the NSA spied, but I did not know how well they have gotten at watching citizens not just enemies. I really didn’t know how pervasive and ultimate their abilities were. The great cyber wall of China is one of the leakiest wall in the world. But you can’t escape the NSA. You can’t escape it here. You can’t escape there, you can’t escape anywhere. I joked once that the only way to escape NSA surveillance is to move to the moon. Even there I doubt you can escape it.

coolrepublica on April 17, 2014 at 12:11 PM

You have no idea what Chinese or Russian cyber capabilities are. When you pretend that you do then you only look foolish. FYI, the Chinese have purchased or stolen the latest and greatest cyber technologies from around the world. They have the same technological capabilities that we do.

Ever wonder why there is so much cybercrime, with many of the perpetrators tied to the security services, that comes out of Russia? Could it be that they are really good at it?

I do not pretend to know the exact cyber capabilities of China and Russia but as a retired intelligence officer I know a damn sight more than you do.

Snowden helped to bring to the attention of the American people, and the rest of the world, that the NSA is like the East German Stasi on high tech crack. The Founding Fathers, to a man, would consider the N-Stasi-A to be even far more abhorable than even King George, whom they fought a long and bloody war against. And it’s not like those overpaid bureaucrat dullards stop any terrorism anyway for all the billions, probably tens of billions, the N-Stasi-A eats up every year.

Obama has already politicized and weaponized quite a number of federal government agencies and anyone who thinks the NSA is immune from that is not in touch with reality.

And it would not surprise me in the least if the N-Stasi-A was lending a helping hand to those BLM Brownshirts serving Dirty Harry in Nevada by peeping at Dirty Harry’s opposition’s phone calls, emails and credit card purchases, and continuing to do so.

Steve Eggleston on April 17, 2014 at 1:04 PM
Shump on April 17, 2014 at 1:06 PM

I hypothesized that its most likely that he wasn’t a “Sleeper” agent per se, but he was a Free Lance Espionage agent.

If he worked exclusively for an intelligence service/country, he wouldn’t have made the rounds to the Chinese/Russian/Venezuela/Wikilaeks Intel services to peddle his stuff. Because out of the three, the Russians have the most to gain/lose with the information he had.

Plus, the information he took, contained a hell of a lot more on the way the NSA work overseas, and how the agency interacted with OTHER agencies, especially those in NATO. Who benefits the most? Guess.

Snowden didn’t just take information that was compartmentalized to DOMESTIC issues, he used even trick available including “Social Engineering” to gain access to OTHER compartments as well. If all he cared about what was going on within the United States Border, WHY did he need to do that?

Too many people are thinking this guy is some movie/comic book Anti-Hero. They are NOT asking the questions that will keep the country alive.

On the other hand, in the US we now live in a pan-opticon militarized surveillance state. And we seem entirely sanguine about this.

theCork on April 17, 2014 at 11:25 AM

No protracted war can fail to endanger the freedom of a democratic country. War does not always give over democratic communities to military government, but it must invariably and immeasurably increase the powers of civil government; it must almost compulsorily concentrate the direction of all men and the management of all things in the hands of the administration. If it does not lead to despotism by sudden violence, it prepares men for it more gently by their habits. All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and the shortest means to accomplish it. This is the first axiom of the science.– Alexis de Tocqueville

Staying on Russia, the 12:30 report on my local radio claims there’s a tentative agreement between Russia, the EU, Ukraine and US to freeze the Ukrainian situation as it is now (i.e. Russia controls Crimea and much of eastern Ukraine).

Staying on Russia, the 12:30 report on my local radio claims there’s a tentative agreement between Russia, the EU, Ukraine and US to freeze the Ukrainian situation as it is now (i.e. Russia controls Crimea and much of eastern Ukraine).

Steve Eggleston on April 17, 2014 at 1:36 PM

I’m sure Mr. Chamberlain…er Mr. Kerry will step off the plane any second with the document signed by Mr. Hitler… err Mr. Putin.

How do you keep up with the countries that still have their NSA equivalent?

BlaxPac on April 17, 2014 at 1:41 PM

As for me, that’s like comparing a Piper Cub to a 747. I’m for the NSA existing, just as long as it recognized those laws set forth in the Constitution Amendment IV. So Russia now has the ability to do what C.A.R.N.I.V.O.R.E. did in the ’80’s.

Snowden is the New Jew. Hitler had the Old Jews, the NSA has Snowden. All tyrannical bastards need a scapegoat.

VorDaj on April 17, 2014 at 1:43 PM

And yet, Snowden is still alive.

OTOH, considering he’s now residing in a country where they have REAL bad guys…being led by a even WORSE guy that reached the upper levels of said agency by doing things that those that “support” Snowden here, only IMAGINE is happening here.

Because I can’t remember any documented information on any citizen in the US being taken away in the night to get a 9mm Q-Tip.

The country that Snowden “fled” to? Do they have that kind of track record?

Putin is no shrinking violet, and to act like he or others LIKE him is disrespectful…and a successful warrior ALWAYS respects his enemies, even as he tries to dominate them.

As for me, that’s like comparing a Piper Cub to a 747. I’m for the NSA existing, just as long as it recognized those laws set forth in the Constitution Amendment IV. So Russia now has the ability to do what C.A.R.N.I.V.O.R.E. did in the ’80′s.

Good for them.

When they get up to 26th state quantum computing, let’s talk.

Turtle317 on April 17, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Russian always had the ability, the difference was the ability to digest and disseminate the information to a near real-time level…which is STILL out of the reach of even the most advanced agency.

Regardless of the computers or computing power, at least until you can successfully mimic the human brain…it still takes PEOPLE to distill and act upon Intel.

Yes, you can used advance programming, etc to do the bulk of the work, but it still comes down to people to make the connections between FACT and ACT. We haven’t reached that stage yet…movies aside we may never be able to, or at least our lifetime.

@aplombed. Have you been paying attention to the revelations about the NSA? Their capability is way beyond that of the Russians and Chinese. If you choose to pretend that Russia and China has better technology than I won’t shake you out if your illusion.

But I can read and I know better. When it comes to surveillance the NSA has no peers. None. It is a fact that is indisputable.

coolrepublica on April 17, 2014 at 11:36 AM

It’s a little easier to be as good as the NSA is when you can just send your goverment goons over to the OS manufacturers and the router manufacturers and order them to give you backdoor access. Ditto much of the software, many of the most popular websites, and the principal internet nodes.

Russia hasn’t opened our borders nor put a boot on our economy. It wasn’t Putin that created a US police state. It wasn’t Putin who violated an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution. We’ve met the enemy. They hold office in Washington, D.C.

Why is there still such a thing as the NSA, or CIA or any of these other extra-constitutional bodies in the government? What could we do to change the government, if we wanted to? Is there anything at all that you, or I, or anyone else could do at all? I don’t think there is anymore.

The fact is that the government has been captured by an elite class of aristocrats, and no longer serves the people. At this point, worship of “the rule of law” is exactly the same as the Leftists’ worship of government itself.

There is no daylight between the hardcore Leftists and Rightists on this topic because of the way things have been manipulated. There is only freedom and liberty on one end of the scale, and absolute tyranny on the other. Anything in between are gradations of tyranny that we have been forced to accept at the point of a gun.

There is no proper balance between safety and security. Security is just another word for slavery when it is used by the aristocracy. The State serves their interests, not ours.

No Russia does not conduct surveillance like the us does because they can’t. They don’t have the technology. I didn’t not Putin to tell me that. Putin has wet dreams and these dreams is for Russia to one day have such capability.

The NSA has reached a technological advantage in surveillance that turn Russia and China green with envy.

coolrepublica on April 17, 2014 at 11:25 AM

Lol :) your gullibility is almost endearing, the Rusky propaganda must have worked on you :)… Or, alternatively, I want what you are smoking :)…the Russians and the Chinese are far more advanced than anyone on the planet when it comes to mass surveillance techniques…reason why both the Russian and Chinese population is so easily kept in line (and think of their numbers)… NSA don’t come anywhere close to these two…

There is only freedom and liberty on one end of the scale, and absolute tyranny on the other. Anything in between are gradations of tyranny that we have been forced to accept at the point of a gun.

Another Libertarian

I disagree with this statement. Since when has freedom existed without laws enforced by government? In the absence of government there is anarchy, and in an anarchy might alone makes right and is certainly used to oppress others. Does that sound like freedom?

One of the main things that has made the West great are laws (eg: like the Constitution, and Magna Carta) that restrain the State’s powers in its quest to bring order from anarchy. The West thus isn’t defined so much by the laws the people have to follow, but the laws that the States have to follow. The NSA has too much power, yes, but there are powers you want the State to have.

Here they go again, trying to divert attention from the NSA to whatever, in this case, “Oh, look at Snowden”. Who the hell cares about Snowden, but some NSA propagandist or lackey? What is he, the new Jewish Whipping Boy? That’s about it.

Oh please! No offense but this is as stupid as those who use the word patriot or hero to describe Snowden. He didn’t spark debate as one commentator wrote….. He stole the keys to the kingdom and shared all that he stole with Russia, China, and left-leaning journalists.

There was no naivete in Snowden’s actions and his heart definitely was not in the right place, no matter what you think of what NSA was/is doing.