Imp said:
There is a feeling in my life that my life is not necessarily about me, which is of course on the altruistic side of things. Perhaps many people can say that though, in some sense. I feel great about it tbh, the altruism question, it was a good gift to give, indeed. I get a bit tearful thinking about it now. Great that you told me.

((Imp))

Those tears .... are words the heart cannot express - a purity of love that melts us with the truth, literally.

I had an interesting experience once that hits upon this nuance you've noticed ... I am (we all are) an instrument of others' learning. and so you're right, all of our lives are about & value to all of life itself.

We are all in it together, and that's the thing - we all belong, we're all as valuable as another. There is no measurement of 'worth' or judgement of better or worse, not in or with anything. We literally are all in together.

As the Dalai Lama says, if you think small is not important, try sleeping with a mosquito in the room.

smiileyjen101 wrote:It's upside down in logic, but I think what might have been pre-seeded is not the experiences or even the limitations them self, but the degrees of awareness, capacity & willingness that we choose to come into this life with
and it's this that is holographic in nature - the awareness, capacity and willingness to further grow them (that is to grow awareness, capacity & willingness) in and through experiences in our physical classroom.

I don't know. You might be right. I think the degree of our awareness stems from so many factors, including our conditioning in this life, environmental, genetic, and past life incarnations. Yet, I'm inclined to think that it's a certain aspect that we come to experience, and the experience is what is planned as it's the experience itself, where we gain the most out of. The experience as I see it, is more of a 'field lesson' for us to gain the actual understanding of the aspect we came to learn, where we grow in awareness as a result (or not). We might incarnate to learn what it's like to suffer through a severe illness and have to rely on a caretaker for all of our needs, while in the next life, we might want to learn what it's like to BE that caretaker of someone who is sick. We keep covering every aspect, until we have learned all that we need to learn. So, the experience is of utmost importance here, which is why it would likely be planned as I see it. But, again, this is merely what I've come across in the small amount of research I've done over the past several months and I'm sure others might beg to differ. It seems that the experiences that are pre-planned are a blueprint and only a blueprint, and how we react/respond, (our awareness) and what we choose to manifest, in those experiences, is where our free will seems to come in. Meaning, we are free to choose to respond to a situation through/as love or through/as a lower vibration based on other factors.

Like you said, we are constantly in service to each other (relationships), whether planned or not planned. And possibly, learning that, is a lesson of sorts in and of itself.

Yet, I'm inclined to think that it's a certain aspect that we come to experience, and the experience is what is planned as it's the experience itself, where we gain the most out of.

x-gazillian people experience the same situation - what differentiates their response awareness - capacity - willingness, is their degrees of awareness, capacity, willingness - how did these become so different between genetically & environmentally created people?

It might be the chicken and the egg, but I'm seeing it less and less so.

We are led into our experiences by our awareness, capacity & willingness, and meet our experiences within it, while growing it at the same time.

I watch two identical twins, one more confident and facing 'higher' learning experiences in immediate intimacy, while the other twin steps back. The only difference in them, at their core, is these three attributes. They cannot be genetically differentiated - they are identical twins, they cannot be environmentally differentiated - they have never been apart, they are not relationally differentiated they have the same familial and social relationships. Their experiences are not even so very different in substance, they meet the same experiences - the difference is in their response to their situations / experiences and the only tangible difference is their awareness, capacity & willingness.

Many people face or experience your illnesses (and all human experiences), some fall to victimhood, some fall to blame, some fall to anger, some fall to hope, some fall to mindfulness, some fall to grace or any other possible choices within the experience that is generic at its core.

All of the same 'experiences' are met at and with different levels of awareness, capacity & willingness - if there were a 'one size fits all' tick this box to have this experience pre-planned one might choose the experience and go through and come out of the experience in a 'pre-planned' way the same as everyone else who has that experience 'cause-effect', but we don't.

I hear what you're saying SmileyJen and I resonate a lot with it. I very much agree too. The missing factor from my understanding (or the devil in the detail), is that there is no guarantee AT ALL, that the events we pre-plan will actually be carried out, which I meant to state clearer above. Again, I think that it's just a rough blue print of sorts as a guideline. The rest is all free will.

Instead, it seems as though, we agree to experience certain aspects of (in this case) human life by contract, including choosing certain personality traits which would aid us in the upcoming life in order to experience what we need. So, if we want to experience the role of a caretaker, we would choose the personality closest to one of a nurturing, selfless person, while if we choose to partake in an experience as an alcoholic abusive spouse, we would choose a personality trait that better fits that...BUT, because of our free will, there's no guarantee at all, that any planned experience will actually happen as none of us remember why we incarnated from a soul level in the first place (most of us at least) and we can easily deviate from those plans because of our free will as I see it and that free will is the level of our awareness which then brings us to different experiences than we planned. It's not so much a matter of carrying out those experiences as much as the importance of our level of awareness during any experience in physical life. It's what we gain from any and every experience as I see it, which is evidenced by how we choose to respond.

However, with that said, it seems that even if we do deviate from those pre-planned events, there are always other opportunities that are either back up plans or simply experiences that we manifest on our own, for learning/growth (awareness wise) down the line for us in the same lifetime to experience, in order to still gain the lessons set out prior to incarnation. Let me reiterate, I think that certain pre-planned events are merely rough sketches of blue prints that are not set in stone in any way. So, if we plan a bombing at a marathon and we got severely ill that day before hand, from food poisoning and decided not to go to the marathon, then we'd miss out on getting blown up at the marathon. Of course, as I see, that's a potential option. Free will is the biggest factor here. And even if we DO partake in those events that we pre-planned, how we respond to them is again, completely up to our own awareness, capacity and willingness as you say.

Just to point out that I'm not spouting this stuff as mind driven creationist nonsense from my own dream world, which many can perceive it as, nor am I claiming it to be true or making this up, because I've never experienced it, and therefore, can't know it to be true. But, I consider myself an afterlife researcher at this point right now, and I'm only expressing above, what I've gathered and developed to be a somewhat accurate assessment from the works of people like Robert Schwartz and Michael Newton along with the reports of many near deathers and other channelers. From that, it seems that certain experiences are indeed pre-planned, but again, that doesn't mean they are guaranteed to happen of course.

From that, it seems that certain experiences are indeed pre-planned, but again, that doesn't mean they are guaranteed to happen of course.

see this is the ... a...c...k... bit for me ^ (and in part seen / absorbed from the wider awareness while 'in' the light but much harder to enunciate).

The actual experiences are as you can see not pre-planned or ordained to happen because in order for it to do so would require a 'script' of sorts and a 'director' of sorts in order for every consideration to amount to a specific circumstance, and while all circumstances are this pinnacle of all the factors combining, they combine not directedly and not prescriptively ---- but organically as like energies and combinations accumulate

- like all of the elements and opportunities that combined to 'allow' ...'life' on earth to bud and every action/reaction from every molecule and group of molecules since responding within a 'pattern' of behaviour dictated only by 'awareness, capacity & willingness'.

I'm right 'out there' in suggesting that human wilfulness is no different to nature's wilfulness in any stream of energy in motion it takes opportunities where and as it finds them.

For me, all experience is organic and dynamic - when one meets opportunity with a whatever level of awareness, capacity & willingness one will ... 'naturally' choose option this, rather than option that because it will be within the range of awareness, capacity & willingess.

My Granny's auld wisdom - your back was made for your burden or you won't be given more than you can bear. For as much as I thought and argued that 'whatever' had it wrong, had overestimated etc.. I realise that was the lie, the falsehood of fear, the less than true acceptance of personal response ability.. not externally dictated responsibility --- but actual access to ability to respond - in love or fear, no choice is wrong, it just brings (creates) a different experience.

A person who (or indeed any being who) comes to an experience with a higher or lower awareness, capacity and willingness to be love or fear will skew the experience by their participation, not only their experience, but the experience of others interacting within it.

Only when you boil it all down to love-creation (gratitude & generosity for what 'is') or fear-resistance to and projection of what is outside of the experience of it, can you clearly see the cause and effect of both feeding into and out of any and every experience. But again this is totally dynamic, not prescriptive outside of the elements of everything that it is or is not feeding into it.

eg any chemical combination can only have a finite number of outcomes /results depending on the individual properties of elements and the amount of each of the elements put into the mix --- put more fear than love into the mix differentiates an experience from one with more love than fear - the properties and elements of them differ by what is poured into the mix/experience.

So I'm suggesting we have degrees of awareness, capacity and willingness in our kit bag.

The holographic nature of it is that this can be either widely appreciated or just biologically appreciated same opportunity-cause-effect applies.

We bring that 'kit bag' to any and every and whatever experience / opportunity arises. Some opportunities increase our growth, and in some we provide elements and participate in as opportunities for others to grow (or not, their choice entirely within whatever's in their kit bag). Intrinsically we all grow as/with creation in expression and experience.

At times one pov won't even see opportunity, let alone even realise they're in the middle of it and participating in it.

It's not the experience per se because that is multi-faceted and perceived in limitations ----it's what we each bring to it (pre-it), and take from it (post-it) that creates and changes and grows all of creation.

This is a bit off topic, but seeing as it's already been mentioned, I'd like to comment on altruism.

Like most virtues, altruism is not to be considered virtuous on it's own. Self sacrifice for the benefit of others, may appear as though virtuous, but unless the person cares for themselves, they are not likely to be very affective. Altruism therefore is not adequate on its own to achieve care and kindness, as it neglects the needs of the provider. Altruism declares that any action taken for the benefit of others is good, while caring for one's self is neglected, somehow even egoistic. This is not virtuous, this is self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial.

It would be much better to cultivate and value rationality, justice, productiveness, and benevolence, and its component virtues—civility, sensitivity, and generosity.

And of course, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Be kind, gentle and generous to yourself.

Love your brother as yourself. Again, love yourself.

“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Free will is still free will as I see it. Meaning, whether we agree that something might have been planned or not is irrelevant because, how we choose to respond to any experience is always the overriding factor and always something that we have complete control over, hence our free will. There is nothing pulling the strings or directing us or scripting us to respond to a situation in a certain way. How we choose to respond is entirely dependent upon own evolution/awareness as energetic perspectives and that's the whole point of it as I see it....meaning...how we choose to respond to any situation.

The actual pre-planning or blue printing as I see it, is merely a means of creating a rough sketch pre-incarnation, knowing that there's a good chance it will never actually happen. To me, that doesn't mean our lives are directed or scripted at all, because our own free will still overrides anything that is pre-planned. In my opinion, it merely means, we choose certain actual themes to experience for physical life before hand for our own growth and evolution to see how we actually respond in those situations as opportunities to raise our own frequencies and we might plan a certain experience for our own growth or even to help another being's growth in their own evolution. But, since we never remember who the heck we are once we are incarnate, and since free will is always the overriding factor, there's a good chance that those blue printed experiences never actually happen. Again, I think it's just a rough sketch. This is what is reported. The people who claim or believe that our entire lives are contracts or planned, I would say are completely missing the point.

Yet, I can't sit here and debate whether or not certain experiences are planned or not, because it's a purely conceptual discussion for me, since I've never had the experience myself to know whether this is true or not, yet you have, being that you've had an NDE. I'm merely speculating from my own very limited perspective here and my own perspective is constantly changing.