Wee-ell, you don't sound too convinced yourself. I'd like to stress (again, I guess?) that things like this should only be brought up if the user doing so feels confident about the band's validity. "Not sure myself, but maybe you guys say yes" is kind of annoying to deal with, to be honest. No offense, you're usually very thorough and reasonable with these things, Muhammad, but please stick to cases where you yourself are convinced, not potential candidates that still can go either way even in your opinion.

The tracks from "Jesus Freak" you posted sound predominantly punk/hard rock and -as you said- grungy to me. Didn't listen to the supposedly metallic ones from previous releases, but cherry-picked single songs... you know the drill.

Warning: a band called "Kliav" (Brazil) has been blacklisted! Your submission will NOT go through.If you think this is an error, please ask in this forum thread. Attempting to circumvent the blacklist is a bannable offense. Thank you.

I have submitted several bands: Vimana (only having a 4 EP release), Bill Pulmonary Embolism (only having a 5 song EP), Hörnery (only having a 5 song Demo), and American (only having a 6 song Demo), but I tried adding Souls of Aries (having a 5 song EP plus an extra 3 singles) and Northern Sword (having a 4 song Demo plus an extra single), and their reason for not being accepted is because apparently it isn't enough for a digital release accepted by this site. So I'm really confused by this...

My band submission got rejected two days ago, and I resubmitted the profile with evidence. I'm posting on here as well to contest the rejection with the same evidence in hopes that this time around it will get approved. as of right now it's just pending.

I have submitted several bands: Vimana (only having a 4 EP release), Bill Pulmonary Embolism (only having a 5 song EP), Hörnery (only having a 5 song Demo), and American (only having a 6 song Demo), but I tried adding Souls of Aries (having a 5 song EP plus an extra 3 singles) and Northern Sword (having a 4 song Demo plus an extra single), and their reason for not being accepted is because apparently it isn't enough for a digital release accepted by this site. So I'm really confused by this...

Well, did you read this? The band has to match those criteria, and the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" very relevant.

I have submitted several bands: Vimana (only having a 4 EP release), Bill Pulmonary Embolism (only having a 5 song EP), Hörnery (only having a 5 song Demo), and American (only having a 6 song Demo), but I tried adding Souls of Aries (having a 5 song EP plus an extra 3 singles) and Northern Sword (having a 4 song Demo plus an extra single), and their reason for not being accepted is because apparently it isn't enough for a digital release accepted by this site. So I'm really confused by this...

Well, did you read this? The band has to match those criteria, and the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" very relevant.

"if the digital album shows true effort and professionalism, it has much higher chances of being accepted than a random collection of garage-sounding songs in a .rar called "demo 1" that will lead to a 404 page in two weeks" so this means that if it's a half-assed release, which both Souls of Aries and Northern Sword don't have.

Well, did you read this? The band has to match those criteria, and the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" very relevant.

"if the digital album shows true effort and professionalism, it has much higher chances of being accepted than a random collection of garage-sounding songs in a .rar called "demo 1" that will lead to a 404 page in two weeks" so this means that if it's a half-assed release, which both Souls of Aries and Northern Sword don't have.

Which is why I said this (and forgot the verb): 'the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" [is] very relevant.'

I am unfamiliar with the bands, but I briefly checked Hörnery, Vimana and Northern Sword (couldn't find a trace of Souls of Aries for some reason). Hörnery's demo is mastered and Vimana's previous name is already on the site and their EP is sold on iTunes, while Northern Sword's demo has a slightly worse production than the other two, and that "single" of theirs has a blank white "cover art". So they indeed seem a little less professional. Small things can matter. In the end it's up to the moderator(s).

Well, did you read this? The band has to match those criteria, and the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" very relevant.

"if the digital album shows true effort and professionalism, it has much higher chances of being accepted than a random collection of garage-sounding songs in a .rar called "demo 1" that will lead to a 404 page in two weeks" so this means that if it's a half-assed release, which both Souls of Aries and Northern Sword don't have.[/quote]Which is why I said this (and forgot the verb): 'the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" [is] very relevant.'

I am unfamiliar with the bands, but I briefly checked Hörnery, Vimana and Northern Sword (couldn't find a trace of Souls of Aries for some reason). Hörnery's demo is mastered and Vimana's previous name is already on the site and their EP is sold on iTunes, while Northern Sword's demo has a slightly worse production than the other two, and that "single" of theirs has a blank white "cover art". So they indeed seem a little less professional. Small things can matter. In the end it's up to the moderator(s).[/quote]

It is important to keep in mind that accepting digital bands with non-full-length releases should be regarded as an exception where several circumstances help in showing the band's validity, or what has now mostly been referred to as "professionalism" (in that sense this term is becoming a bit of a polysemic offspring of the common meaning, but yeah). We still very much prefer clear-cut full-lengths with cover art, artistic "gestalt", solid duration (30+ minutes) and salient, obvious distribution (we prefer physical stuff even more).

I've watched one (quite predictable) trend since the policy change, the trend that many digital bands without what could be called full-lengths have been submitted and approved now. More than the wording in the rules might suggest. Sometimes they had more than one release, sometimes not. There are even some with only a demo. But there often are no clear-cut boundaries between a demo and an EP (there's bands calling their crummy first release/song conglomeration an EP, there's bands with a demo that easily destroys half the Brazilian DSBM stuff we have listed in terms of artistic integrity). Also definitely not when it comes to sheer length. As such, release category on the site shouldn't always be taken too seriously in that regard. In other words, there's lots of solid EP-length stuff out there. But caution is to be had.

We've discussed (some of) Nhb55840's bands briefly in the mods channel and RonimuZ has already given some reasons for why certain bands were approved and some others not. It can't be stressed enough how case-by-case this is and -seeing as we've not yet gone Borg- mod discretion varies, although we try to have some internal discussion as often as possible. Maybe some such bands that were rejected should/might have been approved, overall picture/accepted precedence considered. Maybe, probably. All possible. But the point here is that we can't keep arguing and comparing dozens of maybe-ish bands over and over again. That ends nowhere. We never claimed 100% consistency, but we try to come close to it while also remaining in the realm of practical feasibility in maintaining the "vision" we have for this database. What some people don't seem to get is that the digital release guidelines are not a binary thing that should automatically, unquestionably allow this band in and keep another band out. It is closer to metalness in this, as the very nature of digital distribution and possibilities makes it a world of many colourful constellations that don't always allow for neatly working through a discrete checklist.

Personally, I'd prefer it if people would take it easy in that regard and not try to squeeze every single digital demo/non-full-length band they can find into the ole band processing serpent to try to see whether they make it or not. This frenzied shotgun submission mentality is endemic to the queue, no doubt, and I also don't want to condemn people for trying to contribute. Not at all. But if you choose to submit that kind of blurry stuff in terms of release validity (has a passable cover art maybe, but rather short, called a demo by the band, hmhm, etc...) you have to expect puzzling results sometimes. It's not much different than submitting borderline blackgaze, metalcore, progressive rock/metal or what-have-you. We appreciate people trying to add to the site's completeness, but don't throw everything you find that's pushing the guidelines at us. It's kinda hard to express myself properly here, as I don't want to sound like a lazy bastard that wants people to play it safe all the time so he doesn't have to do so much work. That's not it, but it's pretty obvious that some people are a little too trigger-happy when it comes to submitting stuff. Yes, metal as defined by the site is not everybody's cup o' tea to gauge, but the digital release guidelines are -if I may say so- pretty logical and comprehensible (we might update them over time, though ). We tried to make the rules on digital stuff as reasonable yet realistically workable with as possible, but it's a slippery subject still. What we do not want is having the criteria getting forced lower and lower, which is a tendency that naturally happens and is brought on by users trying to push the envelope, consciously or not. Sometimes folks are aware of the rules but want to see if they can fit something in right below the boundaries regardless. That's annoying and it also threatens to drag us into eventually approving what we wanted to avoid by the "valid release" rule. Namely projects that are little more than nascent demo acts that may or may not endure beyond that "phase" as opposed to projects with a release which can with some certainty establish a band as serious and with a somewhat lasting "legacy".

It is important to keep in mind that accepting digital bands with non-full-length releases should be regarded as an exception where several circumstances help in showing the band's validity, or what has now mostly been referred to as "professionalism" (in that sense this term is becoming a bit of a polysemic offspring of the common meaning, but yeah). We still very much prefer clear-cut full-lengths with cover art, artistic "gestalt", solid duration (30+ minutes) and salient, obvious distribution (we prefer physical stuff even more).

I've watched one (quite predictable) trend since the policy change, the trend that many digital bands without what could be called full-lengths have been submitted and approved now. More than the wording in the rules might suggest. Sometimes they had more than one release, sometimes not. There are even some with only a demo. But there often are no clear-cut boundaries between a demo and an EP (there's bands calling their crummy first release/song conglomeration an EP, there's bands with a demo that easily destroys half the Brazilian DSBM stuff we have listed in terms of artistic integrity). Also definitely not when it comes to sheer length. As such, release category on the site shouldn't always be taken too seriously in that regard. In other words, there's lots of solid EP-length stuff out there. But caution is to be had.

We've discussed (some of) Nhb55840's bands briefly in the mods channel and RonimuZ has already given some reasons for why certain bands were approved and some others not. It can't be stressed enough how case-by-case this is and -seeing as we've not yet gone Borg- mod discretion varies, although we try to have some internal discussion as often as possible. Maybe some such bands that were rejected should/might have been approved, overall picture/accepted precedence considered. Maybe, probably. All possible. But the point here is that we can't keep arguing and comparing dozens of maybe-ish bands over and over again. That ends nowhere. We never claimed 100% consistency, but we try to come close to it while also remaining in the realm of practical feasibility in maintaining the "vision" we have for this database. What some people don't seem to get is that the digital release guidelines are not a binary thing that should automatically, unquestionably allow this band in and keep another band out. It is closer to metalness in this, as the very nature of digital distribution and possibilities makes it a world of many colourful constellations that don't always allow for neatly working through a discrete checklist.

Personally, I'd prefer it if people would take it easy in that regard and not try to squeeze every single digital demo/non-full-length band they can find into the ole band processing serpent to try to see whether they make it or not. This frenzied shotgun submission mentality is endemic to the queue, no doubt, and I also don't want to condemn people for trying to contribute. Not at all. But if you choose to submit that kind of blurry stuff in terms of release validity (has a passable cover art maybe, but rather short, called a demo by the band, hmhm, etc...) you have to expect puzzling results sometimes. It's not much different than submitting borderline blackgaze, metalcore, progressive rock/metal or what-have-you. We appreciate people trying to add to the site's completeness, but don't throw everything you find that's pushing the guidelines at us. It's kinda hard to express myself properly here, as I don't want to sound like a lazy bastard that wants people to play it safe all the time so he doesn't have to do so much work. That's not it, but it's pretty obvious that some people are a little too trigger-happy when it comes to submitting stuff. Yes, metal as defined by the site is not everybody's cup o' tea to gauge, but the digital release guidelines are -if I may say so- pretty logical and comprehensible (we might update them over time, though ). We tried to make the rules on digital stuff as reasonable yet realistically workable with as possible, but it's a slippery subject still. What we do not want is having the criteria getting forced lower and lower, which is a tendency that naturally happens and is brought on by users trying to push the envelope, consciously or not. Sometimes folks are aware of the rules but want to see if they can fit something in right below the boundaries regardless. That's annoying and it also threatens to drag us into eventually approving what we wanted to avoid by the "valid release" rule. Namely projects that are little more than nascent demo acts that may or may not endure beyond that "phase" as opposed to projects with a release which can with some certainty establish a band as serious and with a somewhat lasting "legacy".

Yes, but to counter what RonimuZ had said about quality, I had submitted a band called Sloth Herder with a production quality that appears worse than both Souls of Aries and Northern Sword, yet it gets approved...

Which is why I said this (and forgot the verb): 'the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" [is] very relevant.'

I am unfamiliar with the bands, but I briefly checked Hörnery, Vimana and Northern Sword (couldn't find a trace of Souls of Aries for some reason). Hörnery's demo is mastered and Vimana's previous name is already on the site and their EP is sold on iTunes, while Northern Sword's demo has a slightly worse production than the other two, and that "single" of theirs has a blank white "cover art". So they indeed seem a little less professional. Small things can matter. In the end it's up to the moderator(s).

I meant on the site. I checked the details of Northern Sword's rejection and brought it up with other mods because at first glance the case looked quite similar to that of Hörnery and Vimana. However, like I said, it turned out the details mattered. While the decision may depend on moderator, a moderator always has a reason to decide yes or no. I trust whoever rejected Souls of Aries had a good reason, and I have no interest in looking into it... Even if I could listen to tracks on iTunes.

And regarding Sloth Herder, without knowing this case either, they seem to have two EPs out. That's more than one.

Anyway, what's your point? Would you rather have had it rejected too? I'd suggest you to read Azmodes' post again, it's very informative and it answers pretty much everything you've asked, and more.

Which is why I said this (and forgot the verb): 'the big bolded text saying "moderator discretion applies" [is] very relevant.'

I am unfamiliar with the bands, but I briefly checked Hörnery, Vimana and Northern Sword (couldn't find a trace of Souls of Aries for some reason). Hörnery's demo is mastered and Vimana's previous name is already on the site and their EP is sold on iTunes, while Northern Sword's demo has a slightly worse production than the other two, and that "single" of theirs has a blank white "cover art". So they indeed seem a little less professional. Small things can matter. In the end it's up to the moderator(s).

I meant on the site. I checked the details of Northern Sword's rejection and brought it up with other mods because at first glance the case looked quite similar to that of Hörnery and Vimana. However, like I said, it turned out the details mattered. While the decision may depend on moderator, a moderator always has a reason to decide yes or no. I trust whoever rejected Souls of Aries had a good reason, and I have no interest in looking into it... Even if I could listen to tracks on iTunes.

And regarding Sloth Herder, without knowing this case either, they seem to have two EPs out. That's more than one.

Anyway, what's your point? Would you rather have had it rejected too? I'd suggest you to read Azmodes' post again, it's very informative and it answers pretty much everything you've asked, and more.

No, what I said about Sloth Herder is that it has questionable quality, that has now been brought to my attention after Souls of Aries and Northern Sword's rejections, so I didn't see the problem with the two band's quality after re-listening to them, yet it still doesn't madder because Azmodes' post goes way deeper than quality. The main reason I wanted to add Souls of Aries is because of Ian Bearer (Vocalist of Rings of Saturn, Ex- Under a Dead Sky), for this is his original band.

Gatekeeper were rejected because I should "wait for the official release date" before submitting, although it has obviously been released, as (of now) six users of collection website musik-sammler.de claim to own it [1] and some of them claim they received the release in question (see [2] and another user's post some sites before that). One of them also provided scans of the actual medium and the tray card.

Oh yeah, I forgot: The release date the label mentions is the very accurate "shipping out on or around 11 March 2013", which hasn't been updated or revised in months. Seems an arbitrary release date trumps actual physical availability of a release. Quoting the site's rules: "This demo/album must be released already". There's imho no better way of releasing stuff than to send it to multiple customers in other countries (The label being portuguese and the users of musik-sammler being mainly from german-speaking countries).

Nope, I didn't even know about editing the post until I was told I could. I don't always ask. Lord Green was rejected, I didn't ask Isn't this thread meant to ask moderators why bands were rejected or blacklisted?

i submitted an italian band, Hidden Circle, but it was rejected due to the fact that it has been considered southern rock and not southern Metal.They clearly play southern/groove METAL if you hear some tracks:

This band has been rejected by the moderators for the following reason:

"Can you please provide proof of metalness (a link to song samples) and proof of a valid release (see here)? A valid release can be in a physical format (CD, tape, vinyl, etc.) or as a professional digital release (full-length album available for download). We will need proof that the album is already published and being distributed."

Please review our submission rules before trying to re-submit it.

Keep in mind that all modifications are logged; if this band has been rejected before, the moderators will know, so do not try to resubmit without revising your submission.

If you want to object to this rejection, please do so in the appropriate thread in the "Suggestions and Complaints" sub-forum.

As far as samples go, I can leave you my phone number and I play record when you call me.I do not have abilities or time to do mp3s.

A.S.S. from Detroit was blacklisted for being "not metal"...erm, excuse me if I sound a bit brash, but what would you possibly say is metal if you do not consider this band metal? Here is their Reverbnation page with samples from their new EP that came out last week

Sorry mate, but that's noise. No guitar riffs whatsoever. Shitload of distortion and ugliness, but that won't make it metal.

asdebilas wrote:

As far as samples go, I can leave you my phone number and I play record when you call me.I do not have abilities or time to do mp3s

Sure, you willing to PayPal me the cost for an international phone call too? If you don't have the abilities or time to perform an MP3 rip... well, sorry to put this harshly, but that's your problem, not ours. A more realistic approach would probably be to dub a copy of the tape and post it to a moderator - preferably one based in Europe, if you want a quicker response.

deepdreamsofhell wrote:

Burst Bowel, Brutal death metal from Campobasso (Italy) have released their Promo cd via Warhell Records but even if I submitted this band two or three times, it was always rejected. C'mon

Taken off the blacklist, I see that the CD's now being distributed by a label. You can now resubmit.

kgerych1995 wrote:

A.S.S. from Detroit was blacklisted for being "not metal"...erm, excuse me if I sound a bit brash, but what would you possibly say is metal if you do not consider this band metal? Here is their Reverbnation page with samples from their new EP that came out last week

Sounds like rock with some metallic overtones. There might be an odd metal riff popping out here and there, but the core of the music is heavily rooted in rock. There were also a few -core influences too, which indicates metal isn't the only genre the band was taking influences from.

B M wrote:

I'm B.M. from the band Annorkoth and just wonder why my project is blacklisted.I have released ambient stuff for free, but also I have physical releases which are all metal.

Sorry, those song samples you provided were all driven entirely by keyboards. There was a repeated guitar note being dragged in the background that added atmosphere, but didn't carry the music. When "atmospheric black metal" is carried by keyboards and ambience, it's just ambient.

B M wrote:

If you don't accept that, I don't get it. Why the band Lustre is there then? Tell me please.

Because Lustre has at least one album with songs predominantly driven by metallic guitar riffs.

Erragal wrote:

they said please provide a link to show the metalness of Anthems of isolation ... this is a link to clear that the band is a funeral doom with all elements of metalness

Funeral doom? Are you joking...? This entire demo is pure ambience/drone, I just finished listening to the thing. Nice stuff though, but it was completely void of any discernible guitar work at all. Doom metal vocals isn't going to make your ambient project a metal one, people!

Sorry, those song samples you provided were all driven entirely by keyboards. There was a repeated guitar note being dragged in the background that added atmosphere, but didn't carry the music. When "atmospheric black metal" is carried by keyboards and ambience, it's just ambient.

Well, thanks for clearing all the things. I was just curious because I'm tired of people constantly asking me why I'm not on MA when my project is obviously metal and I finally decided to ask you guys by myself.You're the ONLY website though, who thinks that I'm not metal. Funny haha I'm not sure how you can listen to music when you can't hear distorted and solo guitars. Ambient parts in the background are repeating guitar notes, for additional atmosphere.