Just to let everyone know that progress is continuing on FITE2. The framework for the Soviet OOB is nearing completion, many thousands of units in regiment size. The framework for the German OOB is also progressing and both should be finished by June. Work on the equipment phase will probable be done in July and stating on the event list after that. There will be a map of 6K per hex that will stretch from Hamburg in the west to Molotov and Ufa in the east. This is a huge undertaking and the input and ideas from all of many friends of FITE are welcome at this time. Please share them here in this thread.

Docgaun is finishing up a scenario briefing and may be able to provide some tidbits from that to get a feel for the scope of this scenario.

Of course all of this is contingent on the next patch being completed.

Hello. As we are moving closer to inserting the units, i was hoping for some input regarding the OOB, and events ect. Eventually a few game testers. To sum it up, i need someone to criticize the work and have the fun, while we do all the hard work. To be precise we will need people that would look trough the following: - Soviet OOB: Systematic walkthrough - German OOB: Systematic walkthrough - Map, Systematic review of map, looking for errors ideas ect - Ideas for events/ and programming of those - To&E of units, evaluate To&e - Briefing ( I am Danish so my English needs to be corrected) - Comments on the compromises we have made to fit history into a game - Production number of artillery/tanks aircraft walkthrough, and comments So if someone out there wants to be an external consultant on Fite2, please write me. Direct help: We do need some help finding sources on Soviet ( and other) Partisan activity. Strength unit names active periods ect. So if you know of a book, a web site something that might be of help Please write us Sg@medflex.dk In advance Søren Gaun

Hello. Well Rick has fnished the map, 6km/hex. The soviet OOB only needs a few partisans ( Have to read another book on Soviet partisans behind AGN), and some navalfine tuning. I have allso started on the equipment and squad calculation. So actually we are on schedule. The German OOB is a tad behind schedule, but the German allies are allmost finished. We are trying to bring Steve in to help with the events, as i am a bit rusty on that part. However, the senario is designed for TOAW 3,5, so we need that released first;)

If all goes after the plan, units will go in to the game starting august/september, and it should be playable around Christmas.

Just to give you a few ideas about it. the Soviet OOB is allmost 8.000 units including 800 air regiments. Of cause not all units would be on map at any giving time, but it is a monster. The Changes to the German units comparet to Fite 1 is mostly on tecnical ( MG-42, Sturmgever 44 ect) however the Artillery will be in battalions ( Independent) to provide better stratigic and tactical planning. The basic infantry division will be structured with a HQ and 3 rifle regiments, with divisional ( AA, AT Engineer Battalions) assets divided among these 4 units. Below i have cut in an example of the 7th Guards Cavalry Corps with its To&E ( execpt the Regiment)

For every single equipment there is a calculated TOAW value based on its unique specifications, this is then programed into the scenario, and its unit. So its everything thats re-created. A good example is the 203mm Howitzer thats realy poor in the original TOAW because it uses rate of fire as a potent variable. However being an artillery man myself before i became a doctor, i know that the first salvo is the one that does the dammage, the rest have mostly an supressing effect. (The infantry hit the ground). All this data is verified with historically repports.

Another funny example is that we use the historicalt weather to try to simulate the historically weather;) Its neerdy i know;)

If you have specific questions ill be happy to try to answer them. Allso any comments ideas are very welcome

yes, when its done ill send it to him. I need somone to read the briefing trough. English is not my prime language, so it would be nice to have it corrected;) Allso input on various subjects are much welcome.

Here is an exampel form the Briefing, any comments would be appriciated.

Production and replacements: The Eastern front was a virtual meat grinder, with horrific casualties on both sides. There is no official data on how many percent that were actual rifle squads and how many were in the supporting arms services (Artillery, Armored force, supply and logistic ect), however its logical to assume that these element had fewer casualties than the front line infantry. To calculate squad replacement we have estimates form a number of sources stating that 1/3 of casualties were in these armed services, and 2/3 in the line infantry.

Trucks, either stolen, lend leased or produced 2/3 is going to the logistic support and only 1/3 for the combat troops. Same goes for Jeeps types.

Every nation has its own squads. So there will be Finish SMG squads, Italian SMG squads and so on.

Axis: At Barbarossa 75% of the German strength was employed in the east. This is represented by the actual units on map. Up until 1943 the German industry was not mobilized for war, there was a shortage on skilled labour that only became worse when new recruits were drawn into the armed services. It’s a paradox, that this shortage actually improved the living condition of Soviet POW from 1942, as they were badly needed as labor. German tanks and aircraft production peeked in late 44 ( Aug-sep) as Guderian and Speer were able to reform the German industry to a more coherent war time production. It was never perfect, and almost the entire war the Germans had an abundance of raw material compared that their Soviet counterpart. The production increase can be seen from the increased numbers of new equipment. These numbers are historical.

Historical facts taken into account: - The Germans had between 62-67% of their armed forces in the East at almost any giving time (with very few exceptions e.g the Ardennes offensive). - The Axis forces were totally destroyed meaning that all manpower were killed or captured To apply history we done the following: - 2/3 of the total historical German production goes to the Eastern Front - 100% of Axis allies goes to the Eastern Front Total German losses to 30 April 1945 amounted to 13,488,000 men. That’s 75% of the mobilized force and 46% of the male population in 1939. Of these 10,758,000 were captured or killed in the east. To calculate the replacements we have done the following: - 1/3 of-the casualties were in non-squad units (Artillery, Navy, Aircraft, Panzer force ect.). - As the entire force was eventually captured or destroyed we have subtracted the in game squad numbers, from the remaining total. - Each squad is considered to consist of 10 men. This results in 717.200 squads minus the fielded Army. The quads are then distributed according to the starting Matrix. (Relative percent of fielded MP/Rifle squads ect.)

Others include, French, Czech, Belgium, Spanish, Danish, SS volunteers, Ost Legion ect. As there is no historically numbers for manpower killed or missing, the POW number represents the total loss, and the starting squads are NOT subtracted. The number that goes to the Matrix is calculated the same way as the German. (2/3 Total number /10 (men pr. Sq) minus fielded squads)

Soviet Manpower. Much too contrary belief, the Soviet Union did not have an endless supply of manpower. It did however from the start of the war posses a vast pool, of semi trained men that could be mobilized for action. In 1938 the basic military service was introduced again, for every man from age 18-50. This gave a total of 14 million men with at least basic training when the war started. This vast pool was the reason that the Red Army could sustain such heavy losses, and still continue to grow. By June 30, 1941 5,5 million reservist were called up, and this was matched by 5,5 million volunteers. A grand total of 11 million men were joining the Red Army within 2 weeks of the war. These men were however not of the same standard as the personnel lost in the standing army in summer of 41. This combined with the poor quality of the commanding officers made for the continued heavy losses for the rest of 1942. By December 1941 the Soviet Union had raised 97 reserve divisions, formed 194 new divisions, and 84 brigades. The soviet armed forces reached at total of 11,5 million in 1943, with 6,5 million in front line service. These numbers remained almost constant for the remainder of the war. The total number of Soviet losses is always going to be a guess. The documentation form soviet archive has the confirmed number of 28.199.127 military losses. It’s naturally to guess that the actually number is larger since not all enlisted men were accounted for in the desperate months of 1941 We have implemented the same calculations as with the Axis, however these are actually losses and the standing army is not subtracted. This means the total numbers of squads to put into the matrix are: 2/3x 28.199.127 /10 (men pr squad) = 1.879.942 Squads

Withdrawing units: These units are calculated into the all-time manpower / equipment production, and they should be disbanded before they withdraw, since the players have already “paid” for them.

Soviet wartime production. The heavy disruption during Barbarossa means that the Soviet production first starts in December 1941. The arriving units, until then, represent the relative small production that occurred until December. Factories are to be moved as the Soviet player sees fit. It has no cost on production. However, if they are lost they will reduce the overall production. So take great care and don’t lose a single one, or it will affect your entire war production. The Soviet player can “gamble” keeping the factories in their historically location, as they are formed as supply units and will add to the recovery of adjacent units. The starting reserve pool, reflects the official 22 june 1941 stock pile, (The equipment in depots) and the frantic manpower mobilization in the first few weeks.

and from the briefing: About this Order of Battle (OOB) This OOB is made for The Operational Art of War by Talonsoft/Matrix Games. We will use the latest version with unique equipment using historical data, (Caliber, rate of fire ect.) and a 6k m Hex map covering from west of Berlin to the Urals, and from Finland to Turkey.

Hope this answers your question, otherwise ill be happy to answer more specific

Matrix Great War In The East has a lot of information on how the war effort by Germany and its Allies was distributed during each year of the war. It is also a good source for production figures, TOEs and OOBs.

Unless WitE states the source so the information can be verified I wouldn't use any info found there at all.

WITE is an excellent game and it has been developed by a team of professionals. Sure it is good to use the source material, but while developing 'Eastern Front' I have found WITE to be useful more than once as a check. I have rarely (if ever) found their figures completely off the mark.

Even more reason to be cautiousness, with so many sources there are for sure conflicting informations, it's up to the FITE team to make there own decisions about them and not simply follow the way of the WITE team, they made their decision based on there game engine, the FITE team must make their decisions based on the TOAW engine.

Informed decisions on historical data are better than uninformed ones! I am sure the FITE developers can take a suggestion or two from the forum and existing work and then make the best game they can based on the TOAW engine. They may even learn a thing or two from WITE limitations/problems without wasting limited resources repeating them...

Even more reason to be cautiousness, with so many sources there are for sure conflicting informations, it's up to the FITE team to make there own decisions about them and not simply follow the way of the WITE team, they made their decision based on there game engine, the FITE team must make their decisions based on the TOAW engine.

Sure, but contradicting sources are the norm rather than the exception. So cautionesness is your companion through the whole development circle..

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever. Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

You're insane.. Who shall play this?

Seriously. I was hoping you would go again with the 10km scale and divisions with the Soviets. With the increased unit limit in 3.5 these still could subdivide into regiments.

To get a taste of what this would be like to play try John Tiller's Moscow 1942, Fall Kreml North Max Effort. 250 turns, thousands of units at battalion and company level. Just to fire all of the artillery takes forever. I imagine it will take as long to play a this 250 turn scenario as the entire war took. That is 1939 to 1945.