For or against the death penalty

Given all the problems in the UK justice system including racism, self interests (clearly wrongly convinced people taking ages to get out becuase it is embarrassing for prosecutors and police), class, police have been involved in conspiracies, press coverage of trials and treatment of judiciary, before we even get to human fallibility, UK court system should not power over life and death.

When we would execute someone wrongly, how do we make up for it? We don't even make up for those we wrongly jail properly as well as we should and we haven't learnt how to resurrect people.

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

Dong Zhou wrote:Given all the problems in the UK justice system including racism, self interests (clearly wrongly convinced people taking ages to get out becuase it is embarrassing for prosecutors and police), class, police have been involved in conspiracies, press coverage of trials and treatment of judiciary, before we even get to human fallibility, UK court system should not power over life and death.

When we would execute someone wrongly, how do we make up for it? We don't even make up for those we wrongly jail properly as well as we should and we haven't learnt how to resurrect people.

Pretty much agreed with this, albeit with some caveats.

There are certain crimes that I can see meriting capital punishment, even within a court system like the UK's (or the US's). But the possibility that an innocent human being would or could be convicted of a capital crime, is grounds enough to deter me from supporting capital punishment completely.

Some more blood, Chekov. The needle won't hurt, Chekov. Take off your shirt, Chekov. Roll over, Chekov. Breathe deeply, Chekov. Blood sample, Chekov! Marrow sample, Chekov! Skin sample, Chekov! If I live long enough... I'm going to run out of samples.

Dong Zhou wrote:Given all the problems in the UK justice system including racism, self interests (clearly wrongly convinced people taking ages to get out becuase it is embarrassing for prosecutors and police), class, police have been involved in conspiracies, press coverage of trials and treatment of judiciary, before we even get to human fallibility, UK court system should not power over life and death.

When we would execute someone wrongly, how do we make up for it? We don't even make up for those we wrongly jail properly as well as we should and we haven't learnt how to resurrect people.

Pretty much agreed with this, albeit with some caveats.

There are certain crimes that I can see meriting capital punishment, even within a court system like the UK's (or the US's). But the possibility that an innocent human being would or could be convicted of a capital crime, is grounds enough to deter me from supporting capital punishment completely.

I don't dismiss such a sentiment, that is just one which has never really appealed to me. We have lots of processes which have the possibility of abuse or error, but we obviously find the risk of them sufficient to employ them regardless of such a distinct possibility (and on a long enough time scale, probability). So it has to be mentioned with a caveat , specifically the fact that the punishment here is irreversible (though most punishments are irreversible in my opinion). And again, I'm not dismissing that or dismissing those who point out the other problems of the justice system.

The finality of the Death Penalty is why I am always against it. Had it been in use here in te UK people would have been put to death many times over for bombings and such they didn't commit instead of "just" being jailed for decades at times, sometimes dying in prison conditions.

These decision are made by people, mistakes can be made but I still understand the prison system isn't perfect.

If becoming enlightened or an intellectual means I must become arrogant and coldly cynical about the world around me then I'd gladly remain a fool for the rest of my life!!

SunXia wrote:The finality of the Death Penalty is why I am always against it. Had it been in use here in te UK people would have been put to death many times over for bombings and such they didn't commit instead of "just" being jailed for decades at times, sometimes dying in prison conditions.

These decision are made by people, mistakes can be made but I still understand the prison system isn't perfect.

The question then becomes, is there any situation in which you think the death penalty is justified? There isn't a sliver of doubt as to guilt, the crimes are horrific etc. Because the viability issue is certainly real, but it is possible to have a system( not to say that we have that system) in which the death penalty is rare and the conditions are stringent, but it still exists.

There is always a sliver of doubt, so many "dead cert" cases have later been shown to be wrong. I don't really see a crime where I would legalize capital punishment even if I could be 100% sure

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

Dong Zhou wrote:There is always a sliver of doubt, so many "dead cert" cases have later been shown to be wrong. I don't really see a crime where I would legalize capital punishment even if I could be 100% sure

Yeah, especially when we have so many cases (at least in some countries) of police or prosecutors manufacturing evidence or covering up evidence to the contrary (often with no punishment) because they want a win in their tally or they're so certain this person did it.

My attitude is that there are certainly people who deserve the death penalty (the Old Testament says so for example) however Jesus went to the cross and took the death penalty on himself so that we don't have to face it. If we repent. For that reason I am against the death penalty.

“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela

Phlegyas wrote:I am for the death penalty on certain conditions. The person had to know that they committed the crime in cold blood. They chould not be mentally transfers CDG disabled (like the law states). If they show no remorse, why should we show them remorse?

My view is the conditional eye for an eye: If you kill someone and adhere to the guidlines above, the death penalty should be administered.

Also, why should we pay for these villians for the rest of their lives in prison (if you can call it a life)?