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Redeye, whats your thoughts/film on any DE's coming in the draft this year that could fall to the 2nd or 3rd rd. Obviously you cant see the future, but some guys that could be great value in the 2nd/3rd?[/quote]Im not really feeling any of these pass rushers to be honest with U.[/quote]Whitney Mercilus looks fantastic! I actually hope we can somehow get him to go with JPP for our future DE tandem. I think Mercilus is the closest thing to JPP since JPP.. I think he rises to far up the draft for us though.. I'm thinking Janoris Jenkins at this point because i expect mercilus, kuechly, richardson and decastro to all be gone by the time we select.. I'm now hoping for Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield, Pete Konz(if he comes out), Dwayne Allen, or Jerel Worthy..[/quote]I havent disagreed with U much this season but I do disagree with U about Mercilus.I dont think he is a bad prospect but I dont see anywhere near the elite level athletic ability JPP possess's .JPP had an insane burst off the line of scrimmage,Mercilus doesnt have that.What is similar about Mercilus and JPP is the motor.Both players play hard dont take plays off and are relentless.I do like that quality about Mercilus. Mercilus isnt so much about elite athleticism but hard work.Mercilus is also pretty well refined as a player.He uses his hands and arms real well. He reminds me more of a Derrick Morgan or Robert Ayers prospect then JPP or Aldon Smith.[/quote]Got to agree w/ Redeye on Whitney Mercilus. Not a bad prospect, but nowhere near the level of JPP. I actually think Nick Perry of USC is a much better defensive end.
[/quote] Its fine to dissagree Either way Whitney is gonna be a stud and i think u lead the nation in sacks and forced fumbles when your litteraly the focus of offensive lines unless your very athletic Hes fantastic!
[/quote][/quote]I've still got Southern Cal DE Nick Perry rated higher than Mercilus. His stock has gotta be on the rise w/ his strong combine showing the other day. Here's his results:

Nick Perry Combine Results

4.64 40 yard dash

35 bench reps of 225 pounds

38.5 inch vertical jump

124 inch broad jump

7.25 3 cone drill

4.66 20 yard shuttle

[/quote][/quote] Ya, his stock on the rise from a all ready most likely 1st rder.. Hes been rated higher then mercilus... I never thought Perrys had a chacne at going to us.. regardless, i like Mercilus more, but i can understand why some like Perry, because most Sites got him ranked higher then Mercilus..[/quote]I'm not gonna argue w/ you pal, here's Mayock's top 5 at DE:

Rank

Previous Ranking (1/24)

Updated Rank (2/14)

Change

1

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

2

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

3

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

Andre Branch, Clemson

4

Nick Perry, USC

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

5 (tie)

Chandler Jones, Syracuse

Vinny Curry, Marshall

Andre Branch, Clemson

Nick Perry, USC

*That's right, he had Mercilus ranked ahead of Perry in January and February & I still stick to my word that Nick Perry is a better DE than Whitney Mercilus. End of discussion-
[/quote]I think Perrys gonna be a big bust to be honest... He didn't even show up untill the last 4games of the season...

Now theres a SIG BET i'll do with ya.. I'll gurantee u that Mercilus has more sacks and forced fumbles and TFL then Perry as a rookie...[/quote]1) I think you've got Nick Perry all wrong
2) You're ON for the SIG BET
3) We will have to come up w/ a time frame for how long the loser of the bet has to keep the SIG up for. I'm thinking about 6 months sounds fair.
[/quote] We'll do just Sacks, because its more fair.. I'd hate to lose the best when Mercilus has 5more sacks and 3more FF's, but one less TFL or something..lol[/quote]You got it, sig bet is ON. Mercilus vs Perry in 2012 for most sacks. Hope you're prepared to be sporting a Justin Beiber sig for 6 months, lol.

Redeye, whats your thoughts/film on any DE's coming in the draft this year that could fall to the 2nd or 3rd rd. Obviously you cant see the future, but some guys that could be great value in the 2nd/3rd?[/quote]Im not really feeling any of these pass rushers to be honest with U.[/quote]Whitney Mercilus looks fantastic! I actually hope we can somehow get him to go with JPP for our future DE tandem. I think Mercilus is the closest thing to JPP since JPP.. I think he rises to far up the draft for us though.. I'm thinking Janoris Jenkins at this point because i expect mercilus, kuechly, richardson and decastro to all be gone by the time we select.. I'm now hoping for Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield, Pete Konz(if he comes out), Dwayne Allen, or Jerel Worthy..[/quote]I havent disagreed with U much this season but I do disagree with U about Mercilus.I dont think he is a bad prospect but I dont see anywhere near the elite level athletic ability JPP possess's .JPP had an insane burst off the line of scrimmage,Mercilus doesnt have that.What is similar about Mercilus and JPP is the motor.Both players play hard dont take plays off and are relentless.I do like that quality about Mercilus. Mercilus isnt so much about elite athleticism but hard work.Mercilus is also pretty well refined as a player.He uses his hands and arms real well. He reminds me more of a Derrick Morgan or Robert Ayers prospect then JPP or Aldon Smith.[/quote]Got to agree w/ Redeye on Whitney Mercilus. Not a bad prospect, but nowhere near the level of JPP. I actually think Nick Perry of USC is a much better defensive end.
[/quote] Its fine to dissagree Either way Whitney is gonna be a stud and i think u lead the nation in sacks and forced fumbles when your litteraly the focus of offensive lines unless your very athletic Hes fantastic!
[/quote][/quote]I've still got Southern Cal DE Nick Perry rated higher than Mercilus. His stock has gotta be on the rise w/ his strong combine showing the other day. Here's his results:

Nick Perry Combine Results

4.64 40 yard dash

35 bench reps of 225 pounds

38.5 inch vertical jump

124 inch broad jump

7.25 3 cone drill

4.66 20 yard shuttle

[/quote][/quote] Ya, his stock on the rise from a all ready most likely 1st rder.. Hes been rated higher then mercilus... I never thought Perrys had a chacne at going to us.. regardless, i like Mercilus more, but i can understand why some like Perry, because most Sites got him ranked higher then Mercilus..[/quote]I'm not gonna argue w/ you pal, here's Mayock's top 5 at DE:

Rank

Previous Ranking (1/24)

Updated Rank (2/14)

Change

1

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

2

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

3

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

Andre Branch, Clemson

4

Nick Perry, USC

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

5 (tie)

Chandler Jones, Syracuse

Vinny Curry, Marshall

Andre Branch, Clemson

Nick Perry, USC

*That's right, he had Mercilus ranked ahead of Perry in January and February & I still stick to my word that Nick Perry is a better DE than Whitney Mercilus. End of discussion-
[/quote]I think Perrys gonna be a big bust to be honest... He didn't even show up untill the last 4games of the season...

Now theres a SIG BET i'll do with ya.. I'll gurantee u that Mercilus has more sacks and forced fumbles and TFL then Perry as a rookie...[/quote]1) I think you've got Nick Perry all wrong
2) You're ON for the SIG BET
3) We will have to come up w/ a time frame for how long the loser of the bet has to keep the SIG up for. I'm thinking about 6 months sounds fair.
[/quote] We'll do just Sacks, because its more fair.. I'd hate to lose the best when Mercilus has 5more sacks and 3more FF's, but one less TFL or something..lol[/quote]You got it, sig bet is ON. Mercilus vs Perry in 2012 for most sacks. Hope you're prepared to be sporting a Justin Beiber sig for 6 months, lol.

Redeye, whats your thoughts/film on any DE's coming in the draft this year that could fall to the 2nd or 3rd rd.* Obviously you cant see the future, but some guys that could be great value in the 2nd/3rd?[/quote]Im not really feeling any of these pass rushers to be honest with U.[/quote]Whitney Mercilus looks fantastic! I actually hope we can somehow get him to go with JPP for our future DE tandem. I think Mercilus is the closest thing to JPP since JPP.. I think he rises to far up the draft for us though.. I'm thinking Janoris Jenkins at this point because i expect mercilus, kuechly, richardson and decastro to all be gone by the time we select.. I'm now hoping for Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield, Pete Konz(if he comes out), Dwayne Allen, or Jerel Worthy..[/quote]I havent disagreed with U much this season but I do disagree with U about Mercilus.I dont think he is a bad prospect but I dont see anywhere near the elite level athletic ability JPP possess's .JPP had an insane burst off the line of scrimmage,Mercilus doesnt have that.What is similar about Mercilus and JPP is the motor.Both players play hard dont take plays off and are relentless.I do like that quality about Mercilus. Mercilus isnt so much about elite athleticism but hard work.Mercilus is also pretty well refined as a player.He uses his hands and arms real well. He reminds me more of a Derrick Morgan or Robert Ayers prospect then JPP or Aldon Smith.[/quote]Got to agree w/ Redeye on Whitney Mercilus. Not a bad prospect, but nowhere near the level of JPP. I actually think Nick Perry of USC is a much better defensive end.
[/quote] Its fine to dissagree*** Either way Whitney is gonna be a stud and i think u lead the nation in sacks and forced fumbles when your litteraly the focus of offensive lines unless your very athletic** Hes fantastic!
[/quote][/quote]I've still got Southern Cal DE Nick Perry rated higher than Mercilus. His stock has gotta be on the rise w/ his strong combine showing the other day. Here's his results:

Nick Perry Combine Results

4.64 40 yard dash

35 bench reps of 225 pounds

38.5 inch vertical jump

124 inch broad jump

7.25 3 cone drill

4.66 20 yard shuttle

[/quote][/quote] Ya, his stock on the rise from a all ready most likely 1st rder.. Hes been rated higher then mercilus... I never thought Perrys had a chacne at going to us.. regardless, i like Mercilus more, but i can understand why some like Perry, because most Sites got him ranked higher then Mercilus..[/quote]I'm not gonna argue w/ you pal, here's Mayock's top 5 at DE:

Rank

Previous Ranking (1/24)

Updated Rank (2/14)

Change

1

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

2

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

3

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

Andre Branch, Clemson

4

Nick Perry, USC

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

5 (tie)

Chandler Jones, Syracuse

Vinny Curry, Marshall

Andre Branch, Clemson

Nick Perry, USC

*That's right, he had Mercilus ranked ahead of Perry in January and February & I still stick to my word that Nick Perry is a better DE than Whitney Mercilus. End of discussion-
[/quote]I think Perrys gonna be a big bust to be honest... He didn't even show up untill the last 4games of the season...

Now theres a SIG BET i'll do with ya.. I'll gurantee u that Mercilus has more sacks and forced fumbles and TFL then Perry as a rookie...[/quote]1) I think you've got Nick Perry all wrong
2) You're ON for the SIG BET
3) We will have to come up w/ a time frame for how long the loser of the bet has to keep the SIG up for. I'm thinking about 6 months sounds fair.
[/quote]* We'll do just Sacks, because its more fair.. I'd hate to lose the best when Mercilus has 5more sacks and 3more FF's, but one less TFL or something..lol[/quote]You got it, sig bet is ON. Mercilus vs Perry in 2012 for most sacks. Hope you're prepared to be sporting a Justin Beiber sig for 6 months, lol.
[/quote]What if Someone gets an ACL in training camp is the bet still good

Redeye, whats your thoughts/film on any DE's coming in the draft this year that could fall to the 2nd or 3rd rd. Obviously you cant see the future, but some guys that could be great value in the 2nd/3rd?[/quote]Im not really feeling any of these pass rushers to be honest with U.[/quote]Whitney Mercilus looks fantastic! I actually hope we can somehow get him to go with JPP for our future DE tandem. I think Mercilus is the closest thing to JPP since JPP.. I think he rises to far up the draft for us though.. I'm thinking Janoris Jenkins at this point because i expect mercilus, kuechly, richardson and decastro to all be gone by the time we select.. I'm now hoping for Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield, Pete Konz(if he comes out), Dwayne Allen, or Jerel Worthy..[/quote]I havent disagreed with U much this season but I do disagree with U about Mercilus.I dont think he is a bad prospect but I dont see anywhere near the elite level athletic ability JPP possess's .JPP had an insane burst off the line of scrimmage,Mercilus doesnt have that.What is similar about Mercilus and JPP is the motor.Both players play hard dont take plays off and are relentless.I do like that quality about Mercilus. Mercilus isnt so much about elite athleticism but hard work.Mercilus is also pretty well refined as a player.He uses his hands and arms real well. He reminds me more of a Derrick Morgan or Robert Ayers prospect then JPP or Aldon Smith.[/quote]Got to agree w/ Redeye on Whitney Mercilus. Not a bad prospect, but nowhere near the level of JPP. I actually think Nick Perry of USC is a much better defensive end.
[/quote] Its fine to dissagree Either way Whitney is gonna be a stud and i think u lead the nation in sacks and forced fumbles when your litteraly the focus of offensive lines unless your very athletic Hes fantastic!
[/quote][/quote]I've still got Southern Cal DE Nick Perry rated higher than Mercilus. His stock has gotta be on the rise w/ his strong combine showing the other day. Here's his results:

Nick Perry Combine Results

4.64 40 yard dash

35 bench reps of 225 pounds

38.5 inch vertical jump

124 inch broad jump

7.25 3 cone drill

4.66 20 yard shuttle

[/quote][/quote] Ya, his stock on the rise from a all ready most likely 1st rder.. Hes been rated higher then mercilus... I never thought Perrys had a chacne at going to us.. regardless, i like Mercilus more, but i can understand why some like Perry, because most Sites got him ranked higher then Mercilus..[/quote]I'm not gonna argue w/ you pal, here's Mayock's top 5 at DE:

Rank

Previous Ranking (1/24)

Updated Rank (2/14)

Change

1

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

2

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

3

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

Andre Branch, Clemson

4

Nick Perry, USC

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

5 (tie)

Chandler Jones, Syracuse

Vinny Curry, Marshall

Andre Branch, Clemson

Nick Perry, USC

*That's right, he had Mercilus ranked ahead of Perry in January and February & I still stick to my word that Nick Perry is a better DE than Whitney Mercilus. End of discussion-
[/quote]I think Perrys gonna be a big bust to be honest... He didn't even show up untill the last 4games of the season...

Now theres a SIG BET i'll do with ya.. I'll gurantee u that Mercilus has more sacks and forced fumbles and TFL then Perry as a rookie...[/quote]1) I think you've got Nick Perry all wrong
2) You're ON for the SIG BET
3) We will have to come up w/ a time frame for how long the loser of the bet has to keep the SIG up for. I'm thinking about 6 months sounds fair.
[/quote] We'll do just Sacks, because its more fair.. I'd hate to lose the best when Mercilus has 5more sacks and 3more FF's, but one less TFL or something..lol[/quote]You got it, sig bet is ON. Mercilus vs Perry in 2012 for most sacks. Hope you're prepared to be sporting a Justin Beiber sig for 6 months, lol.
[/quote] lmao!! And u better be prepared for the Back Street Boys being all up in your sig!!!lol "BACKSTREETS BACK, ALL RIGHT!!!"..lol

Redeye, whats your thoughts/film on any DE's coming in the draft this year that could fall to the 2nd or 3rd rd. Obviously you cant see the future, but some guys that could be great value in the 2nd/3rd?[/quote]Im not really feeling any of these pass rushers to be honest with U.[/quote]Whitney Mercilus looks fantastic! I actually hope we can somehow get him to go with JPP for our future DE tandem. I think Mercilus is the closest thing to JPP since JPP.. I think he rises to far up the draft for us though.. I'm thinking Janoris Jenkins at this point because i expect mercilus, kuechly, richardson and decastro to all be gone by the time we select.. I'm now hoping for Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield, Pete Konz(if he comes out), Dwayne Allen, or Jerel Worthy..[/quote]I havent disagreed with U much this season but I do disagree with U about Mercilus.I dont think he is a bad prospect but I dont see anywhere near the elite level athletic ability JPP possess's .JPP had an insane burst off the line of scrimmage,Mercilus doesnt have that.What is similar about Mercilus and JPP is the motor.Both players play hard dont take plays off and are relentless.I do like that quality about Mercilus. Mercilus isnt so much about elite athleticism but hard work.Mercilus is also pretty well refined as a player.He uses his hands and arms real well. He reminds me more of a Derrick Morgan or Robert Ayers prospect then JPP or Aldon Smith.[/quote]Got to agree w/ Redeye on Whitney Mercilus. Not a bad prospect, but nowhere near the level of JPP. I actually think Nick Perry of USC is a much better defensive end.
[/quote] Its fine to dissagree Either way Whitney is gonna be a stud and i think u lead the nation in sacks and forced fumbles when your litteraly the focus of offensive lines unless your very athletic Hes fantastic!
[/quote][/quote]I've still got Southern Cal DE Nick Perry rated higher than Mercilus. His stock has gotta be on the rise w/ his strong combine showing the other day. Here's his results:

Nick Perry Combine Results

4.64 40 yard dash

35 bench reps of 225 pounds

38.5 inch vertical jump

124 inch broad jump

7.25 3 cone drill

4.66 20 yard shuttle

[/quote][/quote] Ya, his stock on the rise from a all ready most likely 1st rder.. Hes been rated higher then mercilus... I never thought Perrys had a chacne at going to us.. regardless, i like Mercilus more, but i can understand why some like Perry, because most Sites got him ranked higher then Mercilus..[/quote]I'm not gonna argue w/ you pal, here's Mayock's top 5 at DE:

Rank

Previous Ranking (1/24)

Updated Rank (2/14)

Change

1

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

2

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

3

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

Andre Branch, Clemson

4

Nick Perry, USC

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

5 (tie)

Chandler Jones, Syracuse

Vinny Curry, Marshall

Andre Branch, Clemson

Nick Perry, USC

*That's right, he had Mercilus ranked ahead of Perry in January and February & I still stick to my word that Nick Perry is a better DE than Whitney Mercilus. End of discussion-
[/quote]I think Perrys gonna be a big bust to be honest... He didn't even show up untill the last 4games of the season...

Now theres a SIG BET i'll do with ya.. I'll gurantee u that Mercilus has more sacks and forced fumbles and TFL then Perry as a rookie...[/quote]1) I think you've got Nick Perry all wrong
2) You're ON for the SIG BET
3) We will have to come up w/ a time frame for how long the loser of the bet has to keep the SIG up for. I'm thinking about 6 months sounds fair.
[/quote] We'll do just Sacks, because its more fair.. I'd hate to lose the best when Mercilus has 5more sacks and 3more FF's, but one less TFL or something..lol[/quote]You got it, sig bet is ON. Mercilus vs Perry in 2012 for most sacks. Hope you're prepared to be sporting a Justin Beiber sig for 6 months, lol.
[/quote]What if Someone gets an ACL in training camp is the bet still good[/quote] Nah, injuries gotta kill the bet.. If one of the players misses say 5games or more, i'm down for bet being off...

Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

3rd round I tried to move up to 81 to get Amini Silatolu-Guard-Midwestern State but the communication got lost somehow. Dolphins took him at 82. U guys think I should go Massie, Mccants, Brandon Brooks , Brandon Thompson

Re: A look at the 2012 NFL draft

Looks like Brandon Brooks is off the board for ya REDEYE.. Looking at your mock, the guys i'd personally consider now are Bobbie Massie, Audie Cole, Bernard Pierce, Nigel bradham, or Juron Criner.. I can't believe Criner is still on the board.. In my order it be

Redeye, whats your thoughts/film on any DE's coming in the draft this year that could fall to the 2nd or 3rd rd. Obviously you cant see the future, but some guys that could be great value in the 2nd/3rd?[/quote]Im not really feeling any of these pass rushers to be honest with U.[/quote]Whitney Mercilus looks fantastic! I actually hope we can somehow get him to go with JPP for our future DE tandem. I think Mercilus is the closest thing to JPP since JPP.. I think he rises to far up the draft for us though.. I'm thinking Janoris Jenkins at this point because i expect mercilus, kuechly, richardson and decastro to all be gone by the time we select.. I'm now hoping for Janoris Jenkins, Chase Minnifield, Pete Konz(if he comes out), Dwayne Allen, or Jerel Worthy..[/quote]I havent disagreed with U much this season but I do disagree with U about Mercilus.I dont think he is a bad prospect but I dont see anywhere near the elite level athletic ability JPP possess's .JPP had an insane burst off the line of scrimmage,Mercilus doesnt have that.What is similar about Mercilus and JPP is the motor.Both players play hard dont take plays off and are relentless.I do like that quality about Mercilus. Mercilus isnt so much about elite athleticism but hard work.Mercilus is also pretty well refined as a player.He uses his hands and arms real well. He reminds me more of a Derrick Morgan or Robert Ayers prospect then JPP or Aldon Smith.[/quote]Got to agree w/ Redeye on Whitney Mercilus. Not a bad prospect, but nowhere near the level of JPP. I actually think Nick Perry of USC is a much better defensive end.
[/quote] Its fine to dissagree Either way Whitney is gonna be a stud and i think u lead the nation in sacks and forced fumbles when your litteraly the focus of offensive lines unless your very athletic Hes fantastic!
[/quote][/quote]I've still got Southern Cal DE Nick Perry rated higher than Mercilus. His stock has gotta be on the rise w/ his strong combine showing the other day. Here's his results:

Nick Perry Combine Results

4.64 40 yard dash

35 bench reps of 225 pounds

38.5 inch vertical jump

124 inch broad jump

7.25 3 cone drill

4.66 20 yard shuttle

[/quote][/quote] Ya, his stock on the rise from a all ready most likely 1st rder.. Hes been rated higher then mercilus... I never thought Perrys had a chacne at going to us.. regardless, i like Mercilus more, but i can understand why some like Perry, because most Sites got him ranked higher then Mercilus..[/quote]I'm not gonna argue w/ you pal, here's Mayock's top 5 at DE:

Rank

Previous Ranking (1/24)

Updated Rank (2/14)

Change

1

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

2

Melvin Ingram, South Carolina

Quinton Coples, North Carolina

3

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

Andre Branch, Clemson

4

Nick Perry, USC

Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

5 (tie)

Chandler Jones, Syracuse

Vinny Curry, Marshall

Andre Branch, Clemson

Nick Perry, USC

*That's right, he had Mercilus ranked ahead of Perry in January and February & I still stick to my word that Nick Perry is a better DE than Whitney Mercilus. End of discussion-
[/quote]I think Perrys gonna be a big bust to be honest... He didn't even show up untill the last 4games of the season...

Now theres a SIG BET i'll do with ya.. I'll gurantee u that Mercilus has more sacks and forced fumbles and TFL then Perry as a rookie...[/quote]1) I think you've got Nick Perry all wrong
2) You're ON for the SIG BET
3) We will have to come up w/ a time frame for how long the loser of the bet has to keep the SIG up for. I'm thinking about 6 months sounds fair.
[/quote] We'll do just Sacks, because its more fair.. I'd hate to lose the best when Mercilus has 5more sacks and 3more FF's, but one less TFL or something..lol[/quote]You got it, sig bet is ON. Mercilus vs Perry in 2012 for most sacks. Hope you're prepared to be sporting a Justin Beiber sig for 6 months, lol.
[/quote]What if Someone gets an ACL in training camp is the bet still good[/quote] Nah, injuries gotta kill the bet.. If one of the players misses say 5games or more, i'm down for bet being off...[/quote]Alright, there's too many moving parts to this bet. I'm game, but someone other than you or me needs to lay down the "rules of the bet". This much is pretty clear though:
1) Mercilus (your guy) vs Perry (my guy) for most sacks in 2012
2) Loser must keep SIG up for 6 months
3) SIG can be whatever the winner of the bet chooses (as long as it doesn't violate GMB rules)

**Someone else other than Sportzfan or myself needs to lay down the rest of the rules. Ex. injuries, games missed, ect.