Should the Pack get a new Offensive Line coach?

As impressive as A-rod was in his second year, his glaring weakness is his pocket presence. I watched on T.V. the first games of the Packers season and by luck and a good brother-in-law got tickets to the Monday Night game against the vikings. It was clear when you were able to watch the whole field, not limited to T.V. cameras, that A-rod would hold onto the ball too long passing up open guys in the short passing game looking for that big time play, something you could not see watching it on T.V. Then inturn I watched what a solid veteran in BF was doing, he new you hit the first open guy, get the ball out of his hands as fast as possible.

I firmly believe we did not have a good line to start the season, but A-rod made it far worse than it should have been. I bet in that “jesus” meeting Tauscher made it clear that the O-line had to do a better job, but that A-rod would have to get off his pretty boy *** and get ride of the football in timely fashion.

Campen did not have the best players to start the year, remember Clifton was hurt more than playing early and Tauscher did not arrive till mid season. So Campen was coaching an O-line without their starting left and right tackles meanwhile he was dealing with a QB that demanded 5 seconds in the pocket each and every play. As good as A-rod is and can be, he still is going through a learning phase. I would give Campen another shot. If I were Campen and TT does what he did last offseason to address the O-line, I would be avidly looking for another coaching job before going through another season like the last. O-line is clearly TT’s fault.

What exactly is this supposed to mean? Would he have less of a "pretty boy ***" if he wore Wranglers?

Seriously, does the kid hold the ball too long? Sometimes yes. Is it Mike McCarthy's desire to play circa 1975 Oakland Raider long ball? It sure appears so to me. Anyone here maybe think that one of the big reasons Rodgers holds the ball as long as he does is because that is the style of offense his head coach wants to run? It doesn't explain a lot of the sacks but it sure explains his proclivity to play that way. There is nothing about him that screams "UNCOACHABLE" so I would guess that if McCarthy ever really got on him to unload the ball and stop looking for the big play, the kid would probably listen. I am not totally absolving Aaron either, I simply think this is the style of ball his coach wants to play.

Anyone else notice that around mid season both Tauscher returned which really shored up the line AND the game plans were much more in tune with the tenents of the WCO (short drops, crossing patterns, quick outs, WR/RB screens)?

Also, how long has Campen been our OL coach? Only what, 3 years? He had nothing to do with the development of guys like Tauscher and Clifton, but very well could have plenty to do with the lack of development of guys like Colledge, Giocomini and Barbre. Wells has developed some but has been in the league 6 years...

How many years in a row has the OL started out brutally slow? It is a noticable dropoff because say what you will about Mike Sherman, but he and his staff tended to field O lines that were a team strength. So, after being used to a very good line for several years, watching what we have been seeing the past few is pretty hard to stomach.

QUOTE=Clay's Jock Strap;266577]What exactly is this supposed to mean? Would he have less of a "pretty boy ***" if he wore Wranglers?

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That he is a stud and can do no wrong.

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Seriously, does the kid hold the ball too long? Sometimes yes. Is it Mike McCarthy's desire to play circa 1975 Oakland Raider long ball? It sure appears so to me. Anyone here maybe think that one of the big reasons Rodgers holds the ball as long as he does is because that is the style of offense his head coach wants to run? It doesn't explain a lot of the sacks but it sure explains his proclivity to play that way. There is nothing about him that screams "UNCOACHABLE" so I would guess that if McCarthy ever really got on him to unload the ball and stop looking for the big play, the kid would probably listen. I am not totally absolving Aaron either, I simply think this is the style of ball his coach wants to play.

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I was at the game and saw the short routs that were open and ignored by Rodgers. At that point of the game MM is just a viewer like the rest of us.

The point of this thread is not to bash A-rod, though your comments just proves my "pretty Boy" statement, A-rod can do no wrong and any criticism of A-rod will not be tolerated.

I bring up A-rod because he was part of the problem early with the O-line, combined with what TT has given Campen to work with, does Campen deserve to keep his job?

Bullshit. Criticism is fine. The "pretty boy" comment is bait by someone waiting to get called on it so they can make some erroneous point about how the kid can do no wrong in the eyes of some fans. He is a hell of a QB and he can still get better. He is far from perfect. To call him names is f'n stupid as hell unless you are a viking or bear fan? Are you? Because if you are a Packer fan I think calling your team's current QB, who happens to be pretty damned good, totally F'n weak. It almost would suggest that YOU have an agenda, not the folks that call you on it because they support their team and the players on their team.

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Answers in bold.

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Bullshit. Criticism is fine. The "pretty boy" comment is bait by someone waiting to get called on it so they can make some erroneous point about how the kid can do no wrong in the eyes of some fans. He is a hell of a QB and he can still get better. He is far from perfect. To call him names is f'n stupid as hell unless you are a viking or bear fan? Are you? Because if you are a Packer fan I think calling your team's current QB, who happens to be pretty damned good, totally F'n weak. It almost would suggest that YOU have an agenda, not the folks that call you on it because they support their team and the players on their team.

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If you read my original post I was not calling A-rod a pretty boy, but kind of role playing and guessing what Tauscher might have said to make a point in a "jesus" meeting context.

Yes I am a Packer fan and have followed the team close enough to have read about A-rods and Tauschers relationship and some of the joking that has gone on between them, that is why I used the pretty boy statement coming from Tauscher. In numerous statements A-rod has kidded about Tauscher's body type. So I was just guessing what Tauscher's response would be in a heated "jesus" meeting.

I guess, since you are challenging who is a bigger fan, which I am not, then a true fan would know this.

Again you prove my point by flying off on a tangent, and that A-rod is off limits to any criticism. I WAS NOT BAITING NOR NAME CALLING.

Purpose of this thread is not to bash and defame A-rod, who I think has the potential to be a great player, but to debate the merits of wether or not the Packers should go in a different direction with their O-line Coach.

I bring up A-rod and TT as points the affected Campens performance as it relates to the O-lines performance. Just because you bring in another coach does not mean you solve the problem if the problem lies elsewhere.

I guess, since you are challenging who is a bigger fan, which I am not, then a true fan would know this.

Again you prove my point by flying off on a tangent, and that A-rod is off limits to any criticism. I WAS NOT BAITING NOR NAME CALLING.

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It had nothing to do with challenging who is a bigger fan. IMO using deragatory terminology for players on the team you cheer for is pretty lame. I can't think of many who would consider calling a male pro football player a "pretty boy" as not being deragatory. Especially since some "fans" or trolls for other teams tend to call him the feminine version "Erin" Rodgers or "Karen" Rodgers. I don't really know what you meant to accomplish by calling him that and I don't know why in hell you wouldn't find it offensive.

I didn't prove any point. You typed something stupid IMO and I called you on it. I didn't fly off on a tangent, I simply said that IMO calling players (especially good ones) on the team you root for is weak. It is weak - no tangent just an observation. And if you are trying to "prove a point" it almost seems contradictory to say it wasn't bait. If it wasn't what was it? Would you like it if we referred to you as "pretty boy?"

And saying that ARod is off limits to criticism is 100% false. At least it is for me it is. When he plays poorly I hold his feet to the coals. You should have read what I had to say about his Tampa Bay performance. I don't think he was at all a MAIN reason we lost in Arizona, the defense was horrible. He does hold the ball too long, I conceded that. However, as I said, it is my OPINION that he is attempting to play the sort of game his HC wants him to play. If you haven't noticed, McCarthy will never be mistaken for Bill Walsh in his "WCO" philosophies - hell, I'd hesitate to even call McCarthy's offense "West Coast". McCarthy likes to go vertical and that requires that plays develop and that the QB have time. AR does need to learn to take his checkdowns more, that is a given. I believe that will come with experience.

You know what - if I have you wrong here, I sincerely apologize. I don't get into who is a bigger fan, that is complete crap and about as subjective a statement as could be stated. How is "fanhood" even defined and quantified? I sure don't know. I know one thing though. I don't cheer for the other teams in our division unless them winning helps us. I cheer for our guys every week no matter what. I don't ever denigrate our players unless they do something to publicly embarrass themselves and the organization. I know I am about as loyal a Packer fan as you will find. I have no idea about you.

Great article, very true that Campen hardly had any players to work with. You can't make something out of nothing. Here's an interesting topic derived from the comments: who was in charge of the whole line shuffling idea? Mccarthy? Campen? TT? I think mixing the guys around proved to be a tough challenge because it did force some of them to play outside their element.

I would have thought a person who calls himself "Clay's Jock Strap" would get the joke between A-rod and Tauscher, again I did not call A-rod a pretty boy.

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Well - I'll tell you what, nowhere did I read that you typed it was Tauscher who said that and you were just propogating a joke. As I said in my last post, if I missed something I sincerely apologize. There are a lot of folks out there that don't give Aaron a fair shake or respect simply because his name isn't "Brett Favre." I don't ever absolve him from criticism but I do have the opinion that we are lucky as hell he is ours and I am a big fan of his. Think of what he had to put up with from the second he arrived having Brett give him the cold shoulder - like it was his fault he was drafted, to KIDS, freakin' KIDS hurling profanities at him last year when he'd go on the practice field just because he wasn't the other guy, to being BOOED at family night... Yeah, I respect what he has done and how he has carried himself a great deal because the pressure he was under stepping into Brett Favre's shoes and with the unbelieveable circumstances of how Brett left would have broken many or most men. I think I would have gone total Ryan Leaf if it was me.

Anyway, if Tauscher said it and you were joking about what Tauscher said, sorry I missed the joke and I apologize. If you were making a joke and just expected us to "get it" maybe you should have sort of gave us a little hint as to where it was coming from.

BTW, my handle isn't meant to be anything other than a goofy way of saying I am a HUGE Clay Matthews III "supporter"... get it?... :happy0005:

Great article, very true that Campen hardly had any players to work with. You can't make something out of nothing. Here's an interesting topic derived from the comments: who was in charge of the whole line shuffling idea? Mccarthy? Campen? TT? I think mixing the guys around proved to be a tough challenge because it did force some of them to play outside their element.

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If I recall when MM was questioned by reporters he stated the decision to shuffle guys around was his. I would imagine the starting positions on offense are MM's final decision, not assistant coaches.

Great article, very true that Campen hardly had any players to work with. You can't make something out of nothing. Here's an interesting topic derived from the comments: who was in charge of the whole line shuffling idea? Mccarthy? Campen? TT? I think mixing the guys around proved to be a tough challenge because it did force some of them to play outside their element.

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I think there are a few dynamics in play. First off, some people are of the opinion that Ted Thompson just doesn't have a very good eye for OL talent, unlike say, WR... There may be some truth to that, that some of the guys were just "misses". A tangent to that is that he has never used higher than a D2 on an O lineman and only one that high (Colledge). So TT certainly isn't without blame. It isn't like this is a line of D1s not producing.

Then there is the whole strange thing about McCarthy hiring Jeff Jagodinski and wanting to implement that zone blocking scheme. They try to go all athletic and undersized... Jags bolts shortly after taking the job of OC and rather than scrap the idea of running that scheme they decide to stick with it (why I have no idea) and run it with it being taught by a guy who learned it from a guy who learned it from a guy... It seems they have now transitioned back to a more traditional scheme and less zone, BUT they are stuck with a few undersized bodies who are not best equipped to stand toe to toe with 300+ lb defensive linemen. So, that's sort of a problem...

Then there is Campen. It is just my opinion, and it very well could be off base, that the main pupils under his watch have not developed AT ALL. Colledge seems to have regressed. Giocomini didn't see a snap all year and we all know how the Barbre experiment went. Maybe Campen is a victim of circumstance, but if it is measured by results alone, if I was Campen I'd have my resume ready.

I hate to bring up other franchises in this thread but as you can see from the pats, eagles, giants you don't have to take an o-line in the first round to have a dominant line. I think TT tried to go with the route that these teams did in finding an o-line to build later on.

I hate to bring up other franchises in this thread but as you can see from the pats, eagles, giants you don't have to take an o-line in the first round to have a dominant line. I think TT tried to go with the route that these teams did in finding an o-line to build later on.

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Agreed. Not every line is like the NY Jets, where I believe 4/5 are former D1s.

Okay, Rodgers held the ball too long early in the season. Well, that and Allan Barbre allowing 5 sacks per game by himself. Coincidence that suddenly Rodgers developed pocket awareness, just when Wells and Tauscher entered the line.

Yeah, there's some lack of talent on the OL. Guess what? It's always the superior's fault. That's how a company goes, and it's not different in the NFL. The line has been the weak point for years. More importantly, there has been lack of focus and bad fundamentals all over. Guess who's fault is that?

Of course, give him the Jets' or Giants' OL and he'll make it work. So will I.

Now, if I had to choose between him and Slocum, Slocum would be unemployed in a hearth beat. Lucky us both can be fired.

I'm not saying he's not without qualities. But Nagler's point about Sitton and Lang can be overturned by showing Spitz, Colledge, Barbre, Giacomini... Also, the fact that Campen had never even heard of the Zone Blocking Scheme, and is teaching it.

Seems like the coaching staff wants to get a bunch of guys who they can stick in at different places in the OL and expect them all to be good at every position which is a recipe for disaster. Better to have guys who can master their position rather than a bunch of jack of all trades regardless of how athletic they are. They just don't seem to really understand how to switch from zone block running to pass blocking on the same drive.