I hear you can even make plastic out of it, so it wouldn't.be so biodegradable. I recall it used to be a part of our justice system, rather than a target, frequently being used by judges such as Roy Bean, and Parker?

Well, there is Bernie Sanders, who has been dragged further to the right like everything else on the tilting deck of the U.S. Titanic, so that he is actually in the center. If the center could grow a bit larger than an endangered species, maybe some one could consider actually forming a left of center party. We should watch to see how many join Bernie in the center. Sort of turn the main, into a stream, so to speak.

The good cop/bad cop comparison is still the best. They know what they are going to do to you, but they don't completely agree on how fast they're going to do it. The bad cop say's, "Hold me back damn it!" and the good cop does. Then they leave the room and decide your fate.

YES!
many in OWS would hate saying it - but WE are
ACA is not perfect, but it is better
GM is not perfect, but it is better
Elizabeth Warren

look at the number of tp reps shrinking
and dems in house & senate growing
and the big win for the President

and please dont tell me he is not left
if YOU are defining people in those generalized terms - left and right
he is left.
If you want to complain that he took wall street money and appointed them. that does NOT make him "right"

generalizing & labels and classing and grouping is a very un-informed way to address issues

from fact check
There are GM commercials and mass mailings that say they’ve paid back their "government loans" ahead of schedule with interest. Didn’t the government take a 71% ownership in the company? Was that a loan or is the loan a smoke screen for the actual government ownership?

Has GM repaid its bailout loan in full with interest, 5 years ahead of schedule?

GM is running advertisements claiming the above statement is true, and the President seemed to reaffirm that claim in his most recent radio address. However, Sen. Grassely (R) claims that GM is using other bailout funds in order to pay off the aforementioned bailout funds and their claim is simply an accounting trick.

FULL ANSWER

Many readers have asked us about the White House-touted news that General Motors, and Chrysler, repaid loan money from the Treasury Department, with interest, ahead of schedule. GM launched an ad boasting of the news, and President Obama talked about it in his weekly address on April 24.

We wrote about this, too, on April 26 in a review of the Sunday political talk shows. Here’s the deal for those who missed that post:

* Yes, it’s true that GM paid back its loan from the Treasury Department, in full, ahead of schedule.
* But the debt was only part of the automaker bailout package. Through the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the Treasury gave GM $49.5 billion, most of which was converted into an ownership stake in the form of stock. Through this equity stake, the government still owns 61 percent of GM.
* Some Republicans, including Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa have pointed out that GM used TARP money to pay back its TARP debt. That’s true, but GM simply handed back TARP money it had been lent and hadn’t used. Those funds had been sitting in an escrow account, should the automaker need them. (The company didn’t borrow new money to pay back an older loan.)

Grassley has argued that this wasn’t a "meaningful" repayment of a loan, since it didn’t come from earnings. That’s an opinion, and we’ll leave it to readers to agree or disagree with the senator. The TARP special inspector general, Neil Barofsky, has said the repayment was "good news," since it meant the automaker didn’t need to use those funds held in escrow. In testimony before the Senate Finance Committee on April 20, Barofksy made it clear GM still was operating with government help:

Barofsky, April 20: G.M. has paid $1 billion, and I think they’ve announced that they’re going to be paying back the debt portion, which is about — I think there’s about $6 billion left in its entirety very shortly. But we should be a little — we need to be a little bit cautious about that because the way that that payment’s going to be made is drawing down an equity facility of other TARP money.
So it’s good news in that they’re reducing their debt, but they’re using it by taking other available TARP money to repay the TARP. It’s good news because it means that money, which was going to be available for future problems with G.M., that there’s a determination that they don’t need it, but we should caution that it’s not necessarily being generated out of earnings, but out of other TARP funds.

In an April 21 interview with Fox News’ Neil Cavuto, Barofsky repeated his assessment that the repayment was "good news" but should be taken with a grain of salt. "I mean, the good news is, that money — they already have that money that’s in that escrow account, so it does lower the total amount of money that they owe to the government, so that’s somewhat good news," Barofsky said. "But I don’t think we should exaggerate it too much, when we remember where — the source of this money is just other TARP money."

Would you say that Iraq was a better investment than the auto industry? Afghanistan? Big pharma - non negotiated prices under Part D? Remember that other auto brands also benefited from it. And then, Mitt and Mrs. also made money from it. So, that must have been good?

We are not talking about Iraq - we are talking about how much friggin money this government squanders at the expense of the taxpayer.

If things were so great in this country as everyone is lead to believe the GDP would be around 4%, we wouldn't have 48 million people collecting government assistance and if everyone was working as this Obama dork claims the economy would be booming.

But instead this moron thinks its the governments job to take away from those who are successful and give it to those who arent.

But yet he claims that the economy is doing wonderful. If it was so wonderful, we shouldn't have to take from those who are successful and give it to those who arent

Besides, the tax on the 2% is only around 0.01% of the total of the federal debt. What in the hell kind of impact do you think this will have on "balancing the budget". Like 800 billion over 10 years will solve the problem right -

Stupid is as stupid does and the people of this country spoke. They voted for the stupid ass again, so they get what they deserve -

And if there is no decision made regarding the "fiscal Cliff fall off" it's because of the insanity - voting the same person in again and expecting different results.

I will put $1000.00 bet up against anyone on this board that when Obama leaves offfice the stock market will rebound, good paying jobs will come to be and the unemployment rate will drop by 2% within the first 6 months of the new president.

For person who wants to stick closely to the subject, your mind seems to wander a bit. No, we are never talking about Iraq. It didn't waste any money or any lives did it?. I'm not so thrilled about Afghanistan either. They will total about $6 trillion in cost by the time we have met all of the obligations related to them But we shouldn't talk about that. The part D gift from the GOP to big pharma is costing us about $200 billion more each year than it should. But we can't talk about that. There are about $200 billion spent each year on mercenaries (privatised military) and programs that the Pentagon doesn't even want.The CIA, DIA, and 9 other security agencies are contracting out work they used to do, more than doubling the cost and wasting about $40 billion a year. Corporate welfare is wasting about $100 billion a year and providing incentives to move jobs off shore. But we can't talk about those either. There was $716 billion in Medicare savings that didn't cut benefits but cut fraud (there have been a handful of successful prosecutions already that cut about $200 billion per year total in rip offs) and waste. Obviously there are potential savings in health care by cutting the costs to what other countries are paying and getting better results (from 17% of GDP to 8-9%).

The stock market has more than doubled since its low in 2008. Of course the banks have ripped their clients and the Fed off to the tune of about $1.6 trillion since the Bush crash started. Several $billion in bank fines and about $30 billion in settlements re the mortgage robo signing fraud has been collected by the Treasury and the states since 2008 and more to follow.

The insanity of reelecting TP Reps who, under the Hastert rule, (majority of the majority to get a vote) can't compromise even though polls show GOP voters wanted compromise. That is insanity.

You did notice what the market did after this election didn't you?

Are you saying that if Romney had won (couldn't do the arithmetic on polls or loop holes in tax policy) the market would have gone up substantially? You expecting all of those old white men to clone themselves (at their current age, but then where are the long form birth certificates?Or don't you believe the census either?)

Taking money to the bank is still just plain dangerous. There are bankers there. Can we talk about that?

Well lets start with Obama - he could have stopped the wars when the Dems were in charge during his first two years but he didn't. So live with the spending facts - you probably voted for him so you get what you deserve.

Secondly with reagard to the stock market - where was it before 2008 - it wasn't at 7000 was it but much higher - it still isn''t back to pre 2008 levels.

Next blame Clinton for outsourcing jobs - His NAFTA agreement did this.

And what did Obama do to help main street - nothing - he bailed out wall street and the economy is still going down the sewer because he doesn't have a clue due to his socialist skills.

And lastly voting Obama in for a second term and expecing different results is plain insanity.

Sorry but according to Obama the economy is doing great - just ask that moron. Keep thinking that things are going to get better - 5 years from now you will still be saying the same thing with the same unemployment.

They are all horrible. GM laid off thousands after their billions, total rip off. Ugly cars with poor gas mileage. Ug Afghanistan and Iraq- total disasters, and more importantly, started "preemptive war"- how fucked up is that?!!

MediPart D unregulated pricing is the same as overall medicare. Same shit, same problems.

All these guys in DC are heavily invested in corporate scams- they write the legislation for em.

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder and I am not a big fan of any of the current design, but GM cars seem to be successfully competitive in spite of GOP "boycotting campaign." The gas mileage isn't that bad. And the whole auto industry in the US, which is pretty big, was largely dependent on the parts suppliers who would have gone down but for the "bail out". So, it is a pretty complex calculation to accurately determine the true cost/benefit of what happened. Yes there were layoffs followed by hiring, some of it, rehiring. I believe you are correct about the $27 billion on the stock and the direct loans. But there are the taxes on GM and the rest of the industry (parts suppliers and car mfg.) would have been lost (to a degree that can't be very accurately quantified). So, net-net, I don't think the true loss will be anywhere near the $27 billion figure. Then there are the secondary effects, foreclosures etc.

I think they will make money on the AIG fiasco even though should have clawed back the $15 bil that went to Goldman at 100 cents on the3 dollar and the banks being allowed to continue to rip off depositors and clients to the present is horrible.

I disagree with you on Medicare. Sure needs and can be improved but is still one of the best programs, second to Soc Sec.

Once the gov starts partnering with multinationals, its the little guys that get screwed. And its corporatism/fascism. GM going though bankruptcy would have been rough, but the more corporatism and fascism thats built into the system, the worse all of our lives will get.

Fascist partnerships are why we get such poor gas mileage. Same cars in Europe get higher MPG. Go figure.

GM is a huge ass company. Its why they got the pull. Same for those that get all the favors. And then we wonder why we live in a world dominated by big corporations.

Suppression of technology in the fuel sector is no mystery, and Ford and GM are the leading factors in abiding by the nonsense. Now we've got the government openly handing one of them billions of our money. Handing Wall ST 85 billion of our money a month. Handing the insurance companies free profits. Handing the DOD whatever they ask for. Handing oil companies EXTRA money after they pay no taxes.

Its a runaway train that only favors big corporations. Its going to take us all down in the sewers.