Sory about mixing the builds guys was not trying to mess things up If I get enough work done on it I will try to load pics for you to see and in a seperate thread to keep things right !
George

I would like to see you do a thread. A friend is planning on doing an electric conversion on a gentile lady, this could motivate him to get his butt in gear. I have done a conversion on a wanderer and another is doing one on a riser which are some what similar.

Questions for you and others who have built a Chryrsalis on the Spoilers.

How did you implement the the control linkages for the spoilers? The plans call for a small pushrod, but I have read how others are using the servo arm itself pushing the spoiler open. (And using a magnet to hold it shut). I am planning on Ying the spoiler servos so getting both hooked up with the pushrods with the same travel seems like it might be a lot of work... Does anyone have an opinion?

Steve

I did it exactly as shown in the plans, even though I had considered doing it differantly. Glad I didnt cause it works well and was easy to do. The ends of those little push rods are z-bends and they need to be small and tight. Making a tool to make a small z-bend out of cheap pliers is really easy, Like this http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193313. I have my spoilers on 2 differant channels that are mixed togeather so i could adjust the throw independently. I also had it all set up and working ( the spoilers themselfs were temporarily attached with scotch tape as a hinge ) before covering.

I hooked up my spoilers on the Chrysalis as per plans, and it was almost beyond my skill sets. If I did not have individual control of each spoiler servo on my TX I would never get them sync'd. Inserted spoilers on a Spectra electric (which comes as an ARF without spoilers) using the servo arm and tiny magnets. Works like a charm and quite simple and easy.

I'm seriously thinking about building one of these. I've seen Randy's fly and have taken the sticks on another club members plane and they both fly superb. Alex and Randy are way beyond me in building skills. I've built CL stunt ships in the 60's and 70's and got into nitro RC planes in the 70's which I built and even did a couple of scratch builds from plans. I then got out of it for a long period. Lately it has been mostly ARF's and 2nd hand gliders. This is a real nice plane that flys like a dream, if I decide to build it I hope I can do it justice.
More musicians in this thread than I ever remember seeing. I collect way too many guitars and play the bluz but I guess I gave that away.

AMA # 944164

Some people hang pictures in their homes, I hang guitars in mine. I guess I can hang a few planes in the garage too!

I'm seriously thinking about building one of these. I've seen Randy's fly and have taken the sticks on another club members plane and they both fly superb. Alex and Randy are way beyond me in building skills. I've built CL stunt ships in the 60's and 70's and got into nitro RC planes in the 70's which I built and even did a couple of scratch builds from plans. I then got out of it for a long period. Lately it has been mostly ARF's and 2nd hand gliders. This is a real nice plane that flys like a dream, if I decide to build it I hope I can do it justice.
More musicians in this thread than I ever remember seeing. I collect way too many guitars and play the bluz but I guess I gave that away.

Hi Bluzjamer!

I keep hearing how well this planes flies and mine is still on the building board.... It's a straight forward build so I don't think you would have any issues with it. It seems you can ask Randy and Alex if you have any questions. (And post here of course) Don has been more than helpfull as well.

I am about half way through the next wing half. The weather has actually been pretty good lately, so my spare time has been at the flying field. I have next week off, so hopefully some more building!

The second half is built and I’m ready to join them together! This half built just like the first. Everything went per instructions/plans, but I still had an issue with the 3 piece wing kit. The shear web that goes between ribs J and K1 was short on this side too. The carbon fiber rods were short as well. When a carbon fiber rod is against one of the balsa stops it just does not quite reach the far rib. I cut my own like on the other side and I’m plowing ahead!

Both sides of the wing have more dihedral than is on the plans. More like 4 1/8 in instead of the 3 3/4 in rise at the tip. Since they are consistent, I’m leaving them that way. I may reduce the center section dihedral a bit.

Nice job Steve, I really like this plane and the way it flys. I just have a hard time when I see the mods that are required, like lengthening the nose, trimming the upper and lower fuse planking, finding the correct wing tubes to fit because of shortness. Seems more like a short kit , than a kit. Maybe I'm just nit picking but there are other planes out there in ARF readiness for the same money. Yes they're balsa not foam. I'm just not much of a kit builder I guess, especially when mods are required. The plane is great flyer
but I think Don needs to release an updated version. Just wondering, the plans couldn't be printed in portrait mode to use a longer sheet of paper instead of diagonaly where you wouldn't have to fold it up or cut it up to build on it. Even if Don could provide some tiled to build on plans would be a huge improvement. Just my $.02.

AMA # 944164

Some people hang pictures in their homes, I hang guitars in mine. I guess I can hang a few planes in the garage too!

At least you did not buy an arf and have it come in with better than 1/2 the longrons
missing from the tail boom and two of the ones that they did include were broken !
That happened to me a few years ago !
George

B.J.
An longron is the balsa or ply sticks that run along the fuse or wing to keep the shape of the plane and make it strong with out a lot of wait , instead of solid sides and and skin on the balsa type planes , not to be confused with the heaver parts of the wing like spars formers
They do the same job as carbon tube and webing on foam planes guy .
they give it shape !
George

OK, well if half were missing on the arf, they should have gotten the arf back.
If the plane was a true arf it was then defective and should have gone back.
Lot of offshore stuff that makes its way into the USA that should be stopped at the docks. Word gets around pretty fast due to the forums and the internet and any company that continues with bad practices won't be around long. By the same token other companies that are given tips to improve their products would be wise to consider these tips to pass a better product onto their customers.

AMA # 944164

Some people hang pictures in their homes, I hang guitars in mine. I guess I can hang a few planes in the garage too!

Bluz, you might be blowing things a bit out of proportion regarding "mods" to the Chrysalis, certainly with regards to whether or not they are "required". There are not many changes folks commonly do, none are "required", and in general the stock-built kit does much better overall than many (if not most) of its contemporaries in this regard.

The nose does not need to be lengthened to get the C/G to come out IF you keep the tail light enough, particularly if you are using competition-sized motors. Mine and Joe's both balance fine without any extreme measures, in fact the motor battery on mine is under the wing, centered on the C/G.

If someone was powering it for ALES competition (which a lot of folks are), you would probably NOT want to extend the nose. That being the case, it's probably better and easier overall to lengthen the nose than to try to shorten it.

There are a number of issues involved in whether or not to lengthen the nose for the stock version, and if so, by how much. We are still debating that.

The fuselage plans are oriented diagonally because the size limits (34" x 44" max) on my plotter required that. You do NOT have to cut up the plans to build the fuselage on them.

When we drew the instructions, we investigated going with a booklet format vs. printing the instructions on a large sheet (the same size as the plans). For a number of reasons at that time, the "big sheet" approach made the most sense, both from a production standpoint and a customer standpoint. If we were doing it again from scratch, we would have to re-think it, and might go with a booklet format, but there are still advantages to the big sheet format. You do NOT have to cut up the instructions. Some folks like to cut them into individual steps and then staple them back into a booklet. What I like to do is zig-zag fold them along the horizontal lines, which gets them down to a convenient size, that can be flipped through like a book, except that most of the time you can also see the steps before and/or after the one you're on.

Note, the paperwork in the kit involves a total of four large sheets: one sheet of wing plans and one of fuselage+tail plans (that you do the actual building on) and one sheet each of wing instructions and fuselage+tail instructions.

As far as "upgrading", besides the major changes we introduced with the Mark II kit, many as a result of customer feedback, we have made more subtle changes since then, again in many cases due to customer feedback. As I said, we are still debating the pros and cons about the nose length, as well as a number of other details.

As far as Steve's problem with joiner length on the 3-piece wing option, no, we have not had reports of that from other builders. I am still trying to understand what caused it in his case, but it is unusual. The vast majority of builders make the stock one-piece wing.

We also have several other variations of the 2 meter in development (in addition to the 3 meter), but with our "day jobs" currently monopolizing most of our time, it's likely to be a while before we get them finished.

Regarding "longron", the common spelling is "longeron", one of the lengthwise primary structural members that act for the fuselage like the spars do for the wing. There are also "stringers" that can run lengthwise. These are typically lighter in cross section than longerons, and although they can provide structural strength, in many cases their main purpose is to create a more smoothly rounded outer shape to the fuselage. I believe the pieces involved in the discussion above are probably more accurately described as stringers.

The Chrysalis uses basswood longerons in the tail, lap-jointed into notches the aft ends of the side doublers. The fuselage bottom, sides and top are standard-width balsa sheets that get glued to the doublers and longerons. If we had the sheets laser-cut to finished size and shape, it would make things a lot trickier for the builder. They would have to get everything positioned exactly right, and before the C/A set up. Trying to force things into that exact position would be a good way to introduce warps into the structure. It's much easier for everyone to just slap them into position, then trim off the excess. You're going to round off the corners afterwards anyway. Trying to laser-cut the parts would make life for the builder more difficult, the kit less forgiving to build, and spend a bunch of extra bucks laser-cutting an edge that gets carved and sanded off anyway.

To clarify a few things... I wanted my Chrysalis to be able to be very light when I wanted it to be and to be rather heavy when I wanted to be. So I decided to use a lighter weight motor than the recommended ones. This led me to lengthen the nose so I can adjust the weight just by changing batteries, while keeping the batteries at the CG under the wing. It was my decision, although I read about it in some of the other thread over on RCGroups. Once I'm a little further along, I'll play with the positioning of the components to see where things will still balance for me.

As far as the 3 piece wing kit and the short carbon fiber tubes.... I don't doubt that the issue maybe something I am doing. I am not a master builder... I have built some Mountain Models and StevensAero kits. Cobbled together some other things for fun, but I am still very much on the learning side. I enjoy building very much, so I'll keep at it and hopefully get better as I go along. I find nothing as satisfying as flying something I built...

For some clarification on the carbon tubes. I've taken a couple of pictures on the plans that show what I am seeing on the plane. I drew the extra balsa tube end stops on the waxed paper that's over the plans. Then marked the end of the wing with tape on the tube. the next picture shows where the tube would be in the other wing half. When the tube is all the way against the stop on one half, it will not quite fit into the far rib. This is why I cut new tubes.

I have also started on joining the center wing halves together! I temporarily taped the bottom together and then flipped it upright, opened the tape "hinge" added epoxy, joined them togther and set the dihedral. The tape helps hold the wing together so you get a good trial fit first and also prevents the epoxy from running underneath the wing. All of this is written up in the plans and worked like a charm.

I am also already dreaming up a covering scheme.... Some more on that when I get some bitmap sketches together.

Here's what I see based on the structure... White is the trim on top and black at the same place on the bottom of the wing. Fuselage is white on the top and sides, bottom is black. Gold stripe on the sides.

Would it be better if one wing side's trim is white on the top and bottom, and the other side black? What should be easier to see?

I replaced the eflite .480 motor cause it was over its max amp and watt specs, but I liked the way that 12x5 prop climbed. I replaced it with a rimfire .10 and a silver series 45 amp esc, The dimensions are the same except on my scale the rimfire .10 was a few grams lighter then the eflite .480. Its drawing right around max also, 362 watts and 32 amps. It climbs with authority. It easily makes 200 meters in less then 25 seconds.

On mine I can go almost vertical on 180 watts, and strongly vertical on 240 watts. With 362 watts you'd better make sure you're pulling the throttle back as you nose over into level flight, unless you want to experiment with adding large amounts of sweep to the wings!

Steve, regarding your joiner length issue:
I had a discussion with Joe today about it. Neither of us recall having any other reports of this problem, and it's still not clear from the information available why you are having trouble with it.

HOWEVER, you are obviously having trouble, and therefore it's possible that other builders could theoretically run into it as well. With that in mind, we're planning to add about 1/8" to the length of the joiners in the kit (which makes them too long to fit in a properly built wing) along with a note that the joiners are deliberately oversize, and the builder should sand their length down to fit after they finish the wing. This should eliminate the possibility of other folks running into this.

Don, It maybe something I did wrong but I can't seem to find anything. I think what you are proposing is a good solution. I did not know how easy a carbon fiber rod was to to sand until I played with mine.

I've been working on the build, but not much time for posting, so here's my update.

I mounted the spoiler servos with silicone rubber/sealer as suggested by the plans. I first tried just "gluing" some balsa pieces together to see how this works. Pretty well! I'll be using this again when I need a temporarily permanent attachment. It seems pretty strong, but pull hard enough and it pops off. I then cut the spoiler and created the push rods per the plans. The only hard part about this (as others stated earlier) is getting nice tight bends. Mine are not the best, but they seem to work. Here's a quick test I did of the spoilers.

I've added the fiberglass/epoxy and "S-Glass" strips to both the top and bottom of center of the wing. I still am not very good at getting these on with the correct amount of epoxy. It seems I usually still have too much epoxy and I'm trying to squeegee it off of the plane.

Then some pictures of the naked plane! Even one with my Mountain Models P-51 with a 37 in wing span. It gives you a clue as to the size of 2 meter sailplane.

I also took some quick weights. The wing is 10.5 ozs with the spoiler servos, the complete balsa fuselage and wing is 18.3 oz. The balsa along with all of the electronics, motor, spinner.. was 25.3 ozs. Even with gooping on too much epoxy, I think I should be close to my targeted weight.

On mine I can go almost vertical on 180 watts, and strongly vertical on 240 watts. With 362 watts you'd better make sure you're pulling the throttle back as you nose over into level flight, unless you want to experiment with adding large amounts of sweep to the wings!

The limit switch is shutting it down before I nose it over. The 362 watts may be some what deceiving. The way its set up now im sure is alot less efficient then yours. With the eflite 480 and the same prop (12x5) it was taking the current past what the motor was rated. It was doin 296 watts and im sure it wasnt climbing like yours with 240 watts. Sounds like it was performing the way yours is at 180. With it drawing more amps then it was rated for is why I put the rimfire .10 in it. Try to use what I have on hand before purchasing any thing and thats what I had. But its right at the motors limit also, So I just have to figure out where to go from here as to what props to purchase to get a more efficient set up. But I do like that lower pitch prop (12X5) cause it seems to climb with authority but not with exsessive speed if that makes any sense.