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Personally I have no other philosophy these days than the one of 'everything is of a natural order' I have no doubt (having experienced them myself) that there are some very strange things that we can't explain. This doesn't mean that they exist on some sort of plane to which we need to transcend. We will, one day, maybe thousands of years hence, understand much more of this weird thing called life and we'll see that the base of all that we know and have is an intelligent universe.

Personally I have no other philosophy these days than the one of 'everything is of a natural order' I have no doubt (having experienced them myself) that there are some very strange things that we can't explain. This doesn't mean that they exist on some sort of plane to which we need to transcend. We will, one day, maybe thousands of years hence, understand much more of this weird thing called life and we'll see that the base of all that we know and have is an intelligent universe.

Well said.....I feel the same way.....science is how we understand the natural world and the universe we live in.... and it is a constantly changing and expanding base of knowledge.

2000 years ago everyone "just knew" that the earth was a few thousand years old...now we know better...

1,500 years ago everyone "just knew" that the earth was the center of the universe.....now we know better....

500 years ago everyone "just knew" that the earth was flat.....now we know better (well...at least most of us do)

And as our knowledge of the universe grows through science....and as we peal back layers of understanding about our world and the universe we live in....we come to find that certain things...at least currently cannot be be explained by science.

And that is where spirituality....dealing with the unknown and currently unknowable comes in.

Perhaps we are being allowed to know and discover more about how it all works as we are meant to find out and know...a growing process if you will

Well said.....I feel the same way.....science is how we understand the natural world and the universe we live in.... and it is a constantly changing and expanding base of knowledge.

2000 years ago everyone "just knew" that the earth was a few thousand years old...now we know better...

1,500 years ago everyone "just knew" that the earth was the center of the universe.....now we know better....

500 years ago everyone "just knew" that the earth was flat.....now we know better (well...at least most of us do)

And as our knowledge of the universe grows through science....and as we peal back layers of understanding about our world and the universe we live in....we come to find that certain things...at least currently cannot be be explained by science.

And that is where spirituality....dealing with the unknown and currently unknowable comes in.

Perhaps we are being allowed to know and discover more about how it all works as we are meant to find out and know...a growing process if you will

Yes, I will. That is I'm sure that this thing we call life is a growing process. Just look around - not much more is needed to recognise this fact. We are surrounded by information, so much information in fact that nobody can talk about anything without being contradicted. These contradictions force us to make decisions about things, although any decisions we make might well be overturned later as more information comes to light.

Myself I'd like to get rid of the word 'spirituality', it's like 'soul', no-one knows what such words mean, and I'd like to get rid of them, plus a couple of others. 8 Billion people each think they know what such words mean so we have 8 billion differing explanations.

I'd prefer to talk about mind and matter or mental- and physical- lives. This would make things much clearer. It would also help to relieve the load we have on our backs when waylaid by terms used for centuries by people who (believing their eyes) could see the Sun going around the Earth, when what we need now is a clear picture of how science can give us an inkling (modest at the moment) of how the physical world works and how the mental world bears its influence on the physical world. (See for instance Dr. Rupert Sheldrake). I mention Sheldrake just to show that I'm not talking about there not being invisible and not yet understood forces in the universe but we need to get a grip on ourselves when we talk about say 'angels'.

That 'middle point' the centre of all potential of the universe(s) and the source of all energy doesn't IMO have anything against us dwellers of the universe slowly gathering understanding of our predicaments. It's another way of looking at evolution, an evolution which isn't just about monkeys' tails.

...how do you reconcile science and spirituality? How do you make sense of the fact that both can exist...?

Excellent question.

My answer comes from science - that which is physically observed, and from spirituality - specifically spiritual experience and reflection.

From the dictionary, 'science', predominantly physics in this context, is the study of that which is material. 'spirit' is essentially the vital animating essence of something, and spirituality the exploration of that 'vital animating essence'.

Given these simple definitions, and what I have indeed observed and experienced myself, I see no conflict between science and spirituality whatsoever. In fact, I have come to see the two as just very different perspectives of the exact same thing. Neither one is wrong, they're just two drastically different ways of seeing the very same things. In fact, in my experience, each is vastly stronger when they work together.

That is how I 'reconcile' science and spirituality.

__________________

Willing to experience aloneness,
I discover connection everywhere;

Turning to face my fear,
I meet the warrior who lives within me;

Opening to my loss and pain and ignorance,
I remember who I am and what I'm here for.

Surrendering into emptiness,
I find fullness without end.

Each condition I flee from pursues me,
Each condition I welcome transforms me

Agreed. There are huge swaths of existence outside the scope of scientific observation and measurement, even theorization to a great extent. This doesn't make science bad and it doesn't mean we tell hard-core materialists who cannot fathom grasping anything they can't apprehend with their basic senses to "get a grip", LOL....

It means we acknowledge there is more than one way to apprehend truth.
And that all ways should be welcomed or available for consideration and evaluation by others, recognising that preferences and aptitudes differ.

...It means we acknowledge there is more than one way to apprehend truth. And that all ways should be welcomed or available for consideration and evaluation by others, recognising that preferences and aptitudes differ...

Amen .

__________________

Willing to experience aloneness,
I discover connection everywhere;

Turning to face my fear,
I meet the warrior who lives within me;

Opening to my loss and pain and ignorance,
I remember who I am and what I'm here for.

Surrendering into emptiness,
I find fullness without end.

Each condition I flee from pursues me,
Each condition I welcome transforms me

A suggested progression.
Before scientific understanding had reached the level it now begins to reach, enlightened persons realised the oneness of all by means of thought, empathy and vision.

Sometimes they chose to pass on this realisation to others of their time and culture in terms which would be familiar to those around them. A difficult undertaking I think. Sometimes this took the form of establishing a system of practice and belief. Sometimes this practice was procedural, practical step by step self realisation. Sometimes this practice was guided by belief based instruction regarding the behaviour necessary to realise the oneness of all. Sometimes this practice encouraged empathy, an understanding of being the other, of feeling with the other, connected with the other. Oftentimes this practice combined many and more such elements.

As scientific understanding "increased", science itself has now reached a similar level of realisation regarding the oneness of all--though by a differing path. Now, today, just as enlightened persons in the past sought to share the reality of the oneness of all as a reality, so also are we faced with the undertaking of turning this scientific understanding of the oneness of all into a behavioural reality. We can do so by each of us turning that objective understanding into shared yet personal reality by means of our choices, our behaviour, our ambitions, hopes and dreams. Our empathy with all which is and of which we are is our way forward and our way to further understanding.