After much discernment, Vigils, Liturgies, praying, and reading, I've decided that I'm going to begin speaking with a priest to begin converting to Orthodoxy from Catholicism. The more I read about Catholicism, the more I find that, amongst all that I love and will miss, there are things that just don't make sense, the various Marian excesses, and various other issues.

I have been attending services in DC, but have recently moved back to NY. Just from an internet search, I think I would like to make the Cathedral of the Holy Virgin Protection in Manhattan my parish. Does anyone have any experience with this parish? How are the services? Is it active (i'm looking for an active parish with various services, fellowship opportunities, ministries, etc)? Is it convert friendly? Is it english? Any help would be appreciated.

The RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CATHEDRAL OF THE HOLY VIRGIN PROTECTION OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK is a Cathedral of the Orthodox Church in America. It is the Seat for the Bishop of the Diocese of NewYork - NewJersey, a recently restored diocese in the OCA. It currently is under the Metropolitan Jonah of Washington, the Primate of the OCA until an election of a Bishop is done. Its website reports that the services are primarily in English with some Slavonic, Romanian and Georgian. About 35% of its members are converts. It has a very nice website that is attractive and informative located at www.nycathedral.org I hope that it will provide you additional insight into this dynamic parish.

The RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CATHEDRAL OF THE HOLY VIRGIN PROTECTION OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK is a Cathedral of the Orthodox Church in America. It is the Seat for the Bishop of the Diocese of NewYork - NewJersey, a recently restored diocese in the OCA. It currently is under the Metropolitan Jonah of Washington, the Primate of the OCA until an election of a Bishop is done. Its website reports that the services are primarily in English with some Slavonic, Romanian and Georgian. About 35% of its members are converts. It has a very nice website that is attractive and informative located at www.nycathedral.org I hope that it will provide you additional insight into this dynamic parish.

ThomasConvert Issues Forum Moderator

Thanks! I've visited the site before, so I'm just curious as to any insight that can be provided by those that have experience with the parish. I wonder how much English is "primariy". Also, how active is this parish? Do they have Bible studies, fellowship opportunities, and other opportunities to fellowship with other parishoners? Are there a lot of young people (I'm 23, so I don't want to be one of the few young people in a sea of older parishoners ).

and 35% converts, is that a high number for an Orthodox parish? Hopefully that makes it less...ethnic

I've been there. It is not an ethnic parish.

Orthodoc

Great! Especially not being from European descent, I would like a parish that is less ethnic. I know that many say that ethnic parishes are still great, and people are welcoming, I just think it's easier when it is not heavily Russian/Greek.

Do you have any more insight into the Cathedral? How "young" is it? Or did it seem more like a family parish? Do you know if they have a lot of activities outside of the Liturgies? The website didn't really give me any hints into this, and didn't have a bulletin to download. I'm thinking of going on Saturday or Sunday to actually see it of course.

and 35% converts, is that a high number for an Orthodox parish? Hopefully that makes it less...ethnic

I've been there. It is not an ethnic parish.

Orthodoc

Great! Especially not being from European descent, I would like a parish that is less ethnic. I know that many say that ethnic parishes are still great, and people are welcoming, I just think it's easier when it is not heavily Russian/Greek.

Do you have any more insight into the Cathedral? How "young" is it? Or did it seem more like a family parish? Do you know if they have a lot of activities outside of the Liturgies? The website didn't really give me any hints into this, and didn't have a bulletin to download. I'm thinking of going on Saturday or Sunday to actually see it of course.

Thanks again.

Your best bet is to gof or yourself. I was only there twice a few years ago for Vespers.

Orthodoc

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Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

and 35% converts, is that a high number for an Orthodox parish? Hopefully that makes it less...ethnic

I've been there. It is not an ethnic parish.

Orthodoc

Great! Especially not being from European descent, I would like a parish that is less ethnic. I know that many say that ethnic parishes are still great, and people are welcoming, I just think it's easier when it is not heavily Russian/Greek.

Do you have any more insight into the Cathedral? How "young" is it? Or did it seem more like a family parish? Do you know if they have a lot of activities outside of the Liturgies? The website didn't really give me any hints into this, and didn't have a bulletin to download. I'm thinking of going on Saturday or Sunday to actually see it of course.

Thanks again.

Your best bet is to gof or yourself. I was only there twice a few years ago for Vespers.

Orthodoc

Yes, definitely. I will be going on Saturday, and I think I'll email the priest or maybe archdeacon to start the process.

I've also discovered the St. Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral (ROCOR I believe), and it's BEAUTIFUL. It doesn't seem to have a website though, and from what I hear, ROCOR is much more ethnic than OCA.

What do you mean less or more ethnic. Everything is ethnic. The music being sang and the rubrics and small traditions are a medley of Russian and Carpatho practices. Sing Obikhod/Kievan chant in English and it is still Russian. Replace pierogies with burgers is replacing a Ukrainian/Slavic cultural traditions for US cultural traditions. No, they're not ethnic at all in those two youtube videos, they're just wearing high back vestments and singing Russian four part melody. And then the "non-ethnic" parishes are just as ethnic as say a Ukrainian or Greek parish. The people become anti anything not "american." At least those who are still proud to eat their nalysynky are open minded enough to welcome hamburgers at the parish picnic. So my best advice go to church and enjoy it and don't worry about "ethnicity." Think about it, sing byzantine chant in English and it is still Arab/greek tradition. Even parishes people on the internet cry that are ethnic welcome visitors and are nice. At least in my experience. Maybe because I don't go in with a predisposed attitude that the people will treat me unfairly because I'm not ______ (insert ethnic background). Go with an open mind. Try the Moscow Patriarchate cathedral in NYC as well. Don't be late they lock the doors so people can't come in late after services start (so I've been told by a few people this has happened to when they arrived for services late and the doors were locked).

The ROCOR cathedral, the Cathedral of the Mother of God of the Sign, is a few blocks from St Nicholas. They don't have a website, though.

A thing about "ethnic" churches: Don't say some churches are "ethnic" which suggests churches with Americans are somehow "not ethnic". It sort of implies "American" is "normal". "American" is an ethnicity, too, and Orthodox people are all one faith no matter what country we're from.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 03:43:41 PM by Orual »

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He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better.

by "ethnic" I mean parishes that, for example, are OCA/ROCOR, and are all/90% ethnically Russian, services are in Russian, etc. I'm sorry, but that is a little unnerving for many of us. In Catholicism, there may be the Tridentine Mass, which is in Latin, but the parishes will typically be more diverse, and not all Italian or all German. So, in looking for a parish, I look for ones that are diverse, have English services (and hopefully not at unholy hours like 7am, and basically appeal more to Americans and not just immigrants. I feel like this is more common in the OCA, and maybe moreso in Antiochian parishes.

Interesting. Btw, it is the Cathedral of the Patriarchal parishes in North America, and a shrine.

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The ROCOR cathedral, the Cathedral of the Mother of God of the Sign, is a few blocks from St Nicholas. They don't have a website, though.

A thing about "ethnic" churches: Don't say some churches are "ethnic" which suggests churches with Americans are somehow "not ethnic". It sort of implies "American" is "normal". "American" is an ethnicity, too, and Orthodox people are all one faith no matter what country we're from.

Eastern Orthodox should go to a Western Rite Service, and see that is so, ethnicity and Orthodoxy.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Some GOA parishes in North America use organs. This came partially as a result of groups of immigrants purchasing buildings that had been the home to Protestant parishes, and them not wanting to waste anything. In various forums I have read over the years, it has also been suggested it was also an attempt to be more "American."

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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Sigh, this is one thing that frustrates me. It like in the US all churches have pews yet in Eastern Europe everyone stands for 2 hours. If 90 year old women in Russia and Romania can stand for 2 hours straight why do we have to cater to lazy Americans. ( FYI I am an American just seems we tend to basterdize things a bit. Maybe I am just too old school.

Sigh, this is one thing that frustrates me. It like in the US all churches have pews yet in Eastern Europe everyone stands for 2 hours. If 90 year old women in Russia and Romania can stand for 2 hours straight why do we have to cater to lazy Americans. ( FYI I am an American just seems we tend to basterdize things a bit. Maybe I am just too old school.

Yes, our churches should theoretically be pewless and organ-less, and our priests should have long beards, services should go on for hours on end, women should wear babushkas, so forth and so on.

But it's not like that, and these things do not compromise the truth that is Orthodoxy. Furthermore, plenty of threads have been dedicated to this topic on this forum.

So back to the original topic, I've visited the Holy Virgin Protection Cathedral in NYC, and it is lovely. I think you will really enjoy the services there.

God bless,

Maureen

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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Sigh, this is one thing that frustrates me. It like in the US all churches have pews yet in Eastern Europe everyone stands for 2 hours. If 90 year old women in Russia and Romania can stand for 2 hours straight why do we have to cater to lazy Americans. ( FYI I am an American just seems we tend to basterdize things a bit. Maybe I am just too old school.

Since this particular parish is both organless and pewless, perhaps this thread should be a cause for celebration rather than complaint?

Just a reminder that we already have threads on pews and organs in the OC.Net that you should divert these discussions to. Please stick to the topic "Anyone familiar with Holy Virgin Protection Cathedral NYC?

Sigh, this is one thing that frustrates me. It like in the US all churches have pews yet in Eastern Europe everyone stands for 2 hours. If 90 year old women in Russia and Romania can stand for 2 hours straight why do we have to cater to lazy Americans. ( FYI I am an American just seems we tend to basterdize things a bit. Maybe I am just too old school.

As an old person who is diagnosed with severe arthritis (degenerate joint disease), spinal stenosis, and three herniated discs) I'm all for pews!

Orthodoc

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Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.

I've also discovered the St. Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral (ROCOR I believe), and it's BEAUTIFUL.

NewOrtho, don't be so concerned about the colors or the "beauty" of the building itself. That is not why you are there. Find a church where you feel comfortable. It's not how pretty the icons are, how nice the choir sounds, etc. You are not looking for a showplace. You are looking for a "home".

This last weekend I was at an Orthodox Convention. The people met down in the basement of a hotel for Vespers. Their was a tiny iconostasis set up, a tetropod with an icon, and candles. The priests were there in their vestments. The Bishops were there. Mind you this was in the basement of a hotel. A little room off to the side. I have never felt more at home. It was cozy and intimate. The flames twinkled and the children sang like angels. Since there was no real choir, everyone sang along. I felt at "home" in a hotel basement. There are no words to describe it. It was beautiful with people finding their way to the basement and filling the room to capacity.

Remember to look for the important things, spiritual in nature, not material.

Good luck in your search.

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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.—St. Isaac of Syria

by "ethnic" I mean parishes that, for example, are OCA/ROCOR, and are all/90% ethnically Russian, services are in Russian, etc. I'm sorry, but that is a little unnerving for many of us. In Catholicism, there may be the Tridentine Mass, which is in Latin, but the parishes will typically be more diverse, and not all Italian or all German. So, in looking for a parish, I look for ones that are diverse, have English services (and hopefully not at unholy hours like 7am, and basically appeal more to Americans and not just immigrants. I feel like this is more common in the OCA, and maybe moreso in Antiochian parishes.

Plenty of non OCA/Antiochian churches have English liturgies as standard fair. And no one canonical serves liturgy in Russian. It's called Church Slavonic. Most churches around my area stopped using Church Slavonic 10 years ago depending on the parish. Now they use English with some Church Slavonic, like for the Holy God or the Cherubic Hymn or the It is truly Meet. I've gone to church many times where I was the only USA born person in coffee hour and they treated me like I was family.

Yes, definitely. I will be going on Saturday, and I think I'll email the priest or maybe archdeacon to start the process.

I've also discovered the St. Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral (ROCOR I believe), and it's BEAUTIFUL. It doesn't seem to have a website though, and from what I hear, ROCOR is much more ethnic than OCA.

Actually, St Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral is under the Moscow Patriarchate.

LOL. So's ROCOR.

Yes, ialmisry, I know that. I didn't see the need to include that information in my post because I thought it might complicate matters needlessly for an inquirer. St Nicholas is under the Moscow Patriarchate; the Synodal Cathedral is under the ROCOR synod which is under the Moscow Patriarchate. Is that clear enough, now?

« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 12:19:27 AM by Orual »

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He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better.

My OCA parish is about as diverse as they come. We barely have any Slavs left - most got old and died off. We have Slavs, Romainians, Greeks, Eritreans, American converts (probably half), Middle Eastern and more!

Yes, definitely. I will be going on Saturday, and I think I'll email the priest or maybe archdeacon to start the process.

I've also discovered the St. Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral (ROCOR I believe), and it's BEAUTIFUL. It doesn't seem to have a website though, and from what I hear, ROCOR is much more ethnic than OCA.

Actually, St Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral is under the Moscow Patriarchate.

LOL. So's ROCOR.

Yes, ialmisry, I know that. I didn't see the need to include that information in my post because I thought it might complicate matters needlessly for an inquirer. St Nicholas is under the Moscow Patriarchate; the Synodal Cathedral is under the ROCOR synod which is under the Moscow Patriarchate. Is that clear enough, now?

LOL. Evidently not. But that's not your fault.

I have no experience with the Patriarchal parishes: the one here closed before I got around to seeing it. I live near the ROCOR Cathedral here, which is VERY Russian. I am somewhat suprised, from what is being said, of the difference with the Patriarchal Cathedral (meaning, it has English).

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I've also discovered the St. Nicholas Patriarchal Cathedral (ROCOR I believe), and it's BEAUTIFUL.

NewOrtho, don't be so concerned about the colors or the "beauty" of the building itself. That is not why you are there. Find a church where you feel comfortable. It's not how pretty the icons are, how nice the choir sounds, etc. You are not looking for a showplace. You are looking for a "home".

This last weekend I was at an Orthodox Convention. The people met down in the basement of a hotel for Vespers. Their was a tiny iconostasis set up, a tetropod with an icon, and candles. The priests were there in their vestments. The Bishops were there. Mind you this was in the basement of a hotel. A little room off to the side. I have never felt more at home. It was cozy and intimate. The flames twinkled and the children sang like angels. Since there was no real choir, everyone sang along. I felt at "home" in a hotel basement. There are no words to describe it. It was beautiful with people finding their way to the basement and filling the room to capacity.

Remember to look for the important things, spiritual in nature, not material.

Good luck in your search.

Interesting you should mention this. Our parish (All Saints Antiochian) used to meet in an Apartment basement (us "old timers" refer to it as the days in the catacombs. ). The Parish was very homey, but one of the reasons they (at the time I wasn't a full fledged member, but at the Cathedral) bought our present temple (a remodeled Lutheran church) was that many people will not go to a Church not in a Church.

You are right though: if you are made to feel at home at a parish that doesn't say a word of English but feel a stranger at the English only parish, I would go with the former.

Back to the OP, as I said it is a shrine: it one of the Mother Cathedrals of the Orthodox in America, consecrated by St. Tikhon, who preached his farewell sermon in it:

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...In the first centuries it was not only the pastors who were tortured, but lay persons as well – men, women, and even children. And it was lay people likewise who enlightened the heathen and fought heresies. And now in the same way, the spreading of the Faith should be a matter that is personal, heartfelt, and dear to each one of us. Every member of the Church must take an active part in it – some by personal podvig spreading the Good News, some by material donations and service to “the needs of the holy persons,” and some by profuse prayer to the Lord that He “keep His Church firm and multiply it” – and concerning those unaware of Christ, that He would “proclaim the word of truth to them, open to them the Gospel of Truth, and join them to the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” I have told this numerous times to my flock. And today, upon my departing from this land, I once more command all of you to preserve and act upon this, and especially you brethren of this holy temple.

You witnessed yourself last Sunday that “The foreknowledge of God drew you closer to the bishop’s cathedra, and that the awareness of this closeness elevates your Christian spirit and edifies the nature of your undertakings, inspiring you for everything good.” Your temple is a Cathedral. It is preeminent in the diocese. And being its parishioners, you brethren must give others an example in everything good that concerns the life of the Church, including caring for the Orthodox Faith.

Furthermore, your parish is Russian, almost entirely consisting of people who came from Russia. And to this very day Russia has been famous as a holy Christian land, whose adornment is the Orthodox Faith, the piousness of her people, and her temples of God. So brethren, uphold here in a foreign land the glory of your motherland. Manifest yourselves before the non-Orthodox as the Russian Orthodox people.

I can say with comfort that in these days, with your zealous attendance at our temple, you’ve made a good impression on the local residents. And you have especially gladdened my heart and expelled the sadness and grief which was felt not only by me in other places at the sight of empty temples during the feastday Church services.

May the Lord strengthen you to excel in the Orthodox Faith more and more – my last prayer is about this . . . Today I depart from you. And so, farewell, fathers and brethren of this holy temple, who are close to me not only in spirit but in our joint prayers, labors, and residence! Farewell to you, the rest of my flock scattered across the wide horizon of this land! Farewell, all those of you wandering in the deserts, working in the mountains and in the depths of the earth, and those on the islands far out in the sea!

Farewell to you, my Cathedral temple! You are dear and close to me. It has been during the time of my service that you were opened, you were adorned during my time as well, and you were made a cathedral during my time. Perhaps for some who have seen the large, magnificent temples in Russia, you might seem small and modest, and you do not shine with gold and silver and precious gemstones like those temples do. But for Russian Orthodox people, who suffered here for a long time without a temple, you represent a precious treasure, and they rejoice that they have you – like the Jews who returned from the Babylonian captivity rejoiced at the time of the construction of the second temple, even though it was not as splendid as that of Solomon. So:

“Oh Lord, the God of Israel! May Thine eyes be open toward this house night and day, that Thou mayest hearken unto the prayer of Thy people when they shall pray in this place! . . . Moreover, concerning a stranger that is not of Thy people, when he shall come and pray in this house, hear Thou him from Heaven, Thy dwelling place!” (3 Kingdoms 8:26-27, 39-41)....

Let God’s blessing be upon this country, this city, and this temple. And let “the blessing of the Lord, with grace and love for man,” rest upon you all, “now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.”

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Well, I had a job interview in Manhattan today, so I stopped by Holy Virgin Protection. I stopped by pretty early (around 8:40am), and it was open, as today was the Procession of the Cross, Blessing of Waters, and beginning of the Dormition Fast (New Calendar I guess). There was only one other person there at that time, in addition to a Deacon. Pictures don't do it justice. It's also in a good neighborhood, and near the subway. I chatted with the Deacon for a bit (he was preparing for the Liturgy), and told him my background. Services apparently are 90% in English, which is great for me (which shouldn't even be an issue, since I love the Latin Tridentine Mass). Apparently a class is starting in the fall. So I took a lot of brochures, and now I just have to finally make a decision of whether I can consciously stay Catholic or become Orthodox. There's always a little something that pulls me back to the Catholic Church, so we'll see.

I wish there was a Young Adult group or a Bible study group. The bulletin said that there are classes held periodically. Maybe I could start a Bible study if I join the parish.

Remember that the Roman Catholic church and the Eastern Orthodox church have a unique relationship in as much as they were both united at one time. They were built on the same early 7 councils of the Christian Church. My point is that from a Roman Catholic standpoint the Eastern Orthodox aren't protestants. It's different leaving the Roman Catholic church for the protestants. That's a direct protest against Rome (the main point of protestantism). Joining the Orthodox Church for a Roman Catholic is more like a lateral shift while rejecting the doctrine Rome has invented since we parted ways throughout history. Most people point to 1054 A.D. as the definitive moment however various regions had already grown distant from Rome earlier and some regions maintained communion until much later than 1054 A.D.

I went to this church a couple of times last week. It seemed like a wonderful parish. People were welcoming, the priest was lovely, the choir was good (although they struggled a bit with the Byzantine melodies), liturgically it was conservative. Other than more frequent services you couldn't really ask for more.