My animal welfare dilemma. - Atheist Nexus2016-12-10T06:35:33Zhttp://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/2182797:Topic:124455?commentId=2182797%3AComment%3A1721455&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=no"We are animals"
Yes, we a…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-04:2182797:Comment:17203002011-11-04T15:55:03.579ZRob van Sentenhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/RobvanSenten
<blockquote><p><em>"We are animals"</em></p>
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<p>Yes, we are just monkeys with shoes.</p>
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<blockquote><p><em>"... we are higher ordered animals. Human lives are more worthy than animal lives."</em></p>
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<p>I'm not saying you're incorrect, but what makes humans special? You are making a dichotomy between "higher ordered" animals and "lesser"(?) animals, what is this distinction based upon?</p>
<p>Is it the ability to suffer, the ability to be…</p>
<blockquote><p><em>"We are animals"</em></p>
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<p>Yes, we are just monkeys with shoes.</p>
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<blockquote><p><em>"... we are higher ordered animals. Human lives are more worthy than animal lives."</em></p>
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<p>I'm not saying you're incorrect, but what makes humans special? You are making a dichotomy between "higher ordered" animals and "lesser"(?) animals, what is this distinction based upon?</p>
<p>Is it the ability to suffer, the ability to be sentient?</p> We are animals - but we are h…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-04:2182797:Comment:17198502011-11-04T01:14:48.723ZSassan K.http://atheistnexus.org/profile/SassanK
<p>We are animals - but we are higher ordered animals. Human lives are more worthy than animal lives. The priority for human life is always precedent to animal life.</p>
<p>Again - I consider myself an animal rights advocate. I am simply not an extremist and I understand the value to scientific testing and the progress of science and humanity.</p>
<p>We are animals - but we are higher ordered animals. Human lives are more worthy than animal lives. The priority for human life is always precedent to animal life.</p>
<p>Again - I consider myself an animal rights advocate. I am simply not an extremist and I understand the value to scientific testing and the progress of science and humanity.</p> I know. :) But they didn't su…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-04:2182797:Comment:17195032011-11-04T01:13:41.370ZSassan K.http://atheistnexus.org/profile/SassanK
I know. :) But they didn't survive or have the chances or surviving due to evolutionary processes. Cannibalism is against human nature.
I know. :) But they didn't survive or have the chances or surviving due to evolutionary processes. Cannibalism is against human nature. Hey Rob,
I can only agree wit…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17196542011-11-03T21:04:55.205Zlevenihttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/leveni
<p>Hey Rob,</p>
<p>I can only agree with you.</p>
<p>Hey Rob,</p>
<p>I can only agree with you.</p> "can you explain to me why an…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17192582011-11-03T15:05:03.444ZRob van Sentenhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/RobvanSenten
<blockquote><p><em>"can you explain to me why animals should have to suffer for something they have no interest in?"</em></p>
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<p>Simply said, because we as humans assign importance to animals and humans based upon our own perception of the world and our own subjective interpretations.</p>
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<p>We cause suffering and hurt because it makes us feel better or live our lives better. Of course this is all subjective, so where you draw the line might be different from the…</p>
<blockquote><p><em>"can you explain to me why animals should have to suffer for something they have no interest in?"</em></p>
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<p>Simply said, because we as humans assign importance to animals and humans based upon our own perception of the world and our own subjective interpretations.</p>
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<p>We cause suffering and hurt because it makes us feel better or live our lives better. Of course this is all subjective, so where you draw the line might be different from the next person. </p> Hi Alexa,
How are things?
M…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17193612011-11-03T14:43:25.898Zlevenihttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/leveni
<p>Hi Alexa,</p>
<p>How are things?</p>
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<p>My example of using humans for experiments is based on Sassans logic. And that is, humans are just animals anyway. If that is the case what is the difference between using humans for experiments and using animals for experiments.</p>
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<p>Alexa, do you think we are just animals? We are animals, yes, but not just any ordinary animal. We have amazing brains, our brains allow us to do things that no other animal can do. We have an amazing…</p>
<p>Hi Alexa,</p>
<p>How are things?</p>
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<p>My example of using humans for experiments is based on Sassans logic. And that is, humans are just animals anyway. If that is the case what is the difference between using humans for experiments and using animals for experiments.</p>
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<p>Alexa, do you think we are just animals? We are animals, yes, but not just any ordinary animal. We have amazing brains, our brains allow us to do things that no other animal can do. We have an amazing world of science and technology, that science and technology makes us more advanced than any other species on the planet. These other species have no interest in our science nor our technology, so can you explain to me why animals should have to suffer for something they have no interest in?</p>
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<p> </p> sassan - there really were tr…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17190612011-11-03T13:12:53.232Zalexa penznerhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/alexapenn
sassan - there really were tribes that were cannibals - yuck. one tribe in the Indonesian area (mid 1900's) was almost decimated because they were eating the brains of another tribe which were infected.
sassan - there really were tribes that were cannibals - yuck. one tribe in the Indonesian area (mid 1900's) was almost decimated because they were eating the brains of another tribe which were infected. yeah, then the humans would s…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17193362011-11-03T13:12:42.520Zalexa penznerhttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/alexapenn
yeah, then the humans would suffer and die instead - what humans would you pick? poor people, mentally deficient people, criminals? maybe you'd rather die of polio or TB? what matters is how the animals are treated and taken care of. doing the same experiments over and over when they are already proven is totally cruel. by the way, a mouse killed by a cat or an elk killed by wolves suffer incredibly more than when being put to sleep by a drug. for once, i agree with Sassan K.
yeah, then the humans would suffer and die instead - what humans would you pick? poor people, mentally deficient people, criminals? maybe you'd rather die of polio or TB? what matters is how the animals are treated and taken care of. doing the same experiments over and over when they are already proven is totally cruel. by the way, a mouse killed by a cat or an elk killed by wolves suffer incredibly more than when being put to sleep by a drug. for once, i agree with Sassan K. We are not cannibals. If we w…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17190402011-11-03T09:30:21.224ZSassan K.http://atheistnexus.org/profile/SassanK
<p>We are not cannibals. If we were, we wouldn't have survived for long. It goes against natural selection and evolutionary processes. And the vast majority of animals are not cannibals and do not eat their own young.</p>
<p>And unfortunately, we can't do all our testing on humans; especially in the early stages of research. While there is no guarantee, scientific experiments on animals has enabled us to continue safe research until it is safe enough to test on humans. Without animal research,…</p>
<p>We are not cannibals. If we were, we wouldn't have survived for long. It goes against natural selection and evolutionary processes. And the vast majority of animals are not cannibals and do not eat their own young.</p>
<p>And unfortunately, we can't do all our testing on humans; especially in the early stages of research. While there is no guarantee, scientific experiments on animals has enabled us to continue safe research until it is safe enough to test on humans. Without animal research, we would have never come up with the number of vaccines, treatments, and scientific advancements and breakthroughs we have had both in the medical and psychological arenas.</p> The comparison is mute. We ne…tag:atheistnexus.org,2011-11-03:2182797:Comment:17188482011-11-03T03:51:14.126Zlevenihttp://atheistnexus.org/profile/leveni
<blockquote><p>The comparison is mute. We need animal meat in our diet for optimal amounts of protein and energy unless one really as adamant in changing their diets in drastic ways against their nature. Among our most closely related primate relatives in the bonobos, women are also dominant. We are related to same degree to chimpanzees as to bonobos so that point is mute.</p>
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<p>After reading this I looked up the dietary habits of Bonobos and Chimps.</p>
<p>Bonobos are mostly…</p>
<blockquote><p>The comparison is mute. We need animal meat in our diet for optimal amounts of protein and energy unless one really as adamant in changing their diets in drastic ways against their nature. Among our most closely related primate relatives in the bonobos, women are also dominant. We are related to same degree to chimpanzees as to bonobos so that point is mute.</p>
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<p>After reading this I looked up the dietary habits of Bonobos and Chimps.</p>
<p>Bonobos are mostly frugivorous. <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Diet">Bonobo Diet</a>.</p>
<p>Chimps are <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee#Behaviors">Omniverous</a>. But prefer to eat <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_chimpanzee#Food_and_foraging">fruit</a>. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ypte.org.uk/animal/chimpanzee/116">Food</a>. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130092139.htm">Interesting Experiment</a>.</p>
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<p>So if we are to change our diet to fit that of the Genus Pan, we should start to eat way more fruit and stop eating meat altogether, except for the occasional B12 craving.</p>
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<blockquote><p>we need to understand that we are simply another animal life form and it does not make us cruel or inhumane to consume meat in our diet.</p>
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<p>If what you have said is true, is there anything wrong with killing other human beings and eating them?</p>
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<blockquote><p><strong>animal testing is vital to the advancement of science and humanity</strong></p>
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<p>If this is the case, and humans are just another animal life form, shouldn't we just do all our testing on other humans? </p>
<p>Even if a certain drug works on a primate, this doesn't guarantee it will work on humans. But if we did all the testing of drugs on humans, the end result would be guaranteed to work on humans. </p>
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