BMore & Houston, the only two teams in the AFC with winning records, no other team has more than 3 wins either. So technically that puts us only 2 games out the WC right now, in mid October. I'm not suggesting we're worthy or good, or that we are in fact going to be better than the eventual real WC contenders, just pointing out how the numbers game looks right now. 2 games is a difference that can be made up with 10 left.

Now it all has to start right the fuck now with Indy, a winnable game and frankly one we probably SHOULD win. So, IMO we'd need to be 4-5 for any WC talk to begin, meaning 3 more wins in a row right now. Enter Indy, the ever so disappointing and always under achieving Chargers and the Ravens (who we just played tough).

IF (<--- really big) the above does occur we have Dalls (meh), the Steelers (this is our year verse them!) and Oakland, I said Oakland. A couple wins possibly waiting for us right there....

4-5 BABY!

Stranger things have happened....just not here unfortunately.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

BMore & Houston, the only two teams in the AFC with winning records, no other team has more than 3 wins either. So technically that puts us only 2 games out the WC right now, in mid October. I'm not suggesting we're worthy or good, or that we are in fact going to be better than the eventual real WC contenders, just pointing out how the numbers game looks right now. 2 games is a difference that can be made up with 10 left.

Now it all has to start right the fuck now with Indy, a winnable game and frankly one we probably SHOULD win. So, IMO we'd need to be 4-5 for any WC talk to begin, meaning 3 more wins in a row right now. Enter Indy, the ever so disappointing and always under achieving Chargers and the Ravens (who we just played tough).

IF (<--- really big) the above does occur we have Dalls (meh), the Steelers (this is our year verse them!) and Oakland, I said Oakland. A couple wins possibly waiting for us right there....

4-5 BABY!

Stranger things have happened....just not here unfortunately.

Yeah, the Colts are rebuliding. The Chargers stink. Pittsburgh's on the downside.....and the Browns will still be dogs in all of those games, save perhaps Oakland. And the reason is they blow.

You've got a QB that stinks (though imroving, but right now, is what it is) and a dolt for a head coach. Your coming off a dozen straight losses, and achieved a victory in which you went 3 and out 7 consecutive possessions.

Teams that would take a miracle to get to 4-5 aren't making the playoffs in the worst of conference years.

This was every drunk caller to local radio last Sunday night though, so you've got that goin' for you.

Well like I said at the offset Lead, I'm kinds just saying, I don't really believe it will happen nor that we are good enough to earn the vaunted title of WC. But it's always fun to play with these scenarios of optimism.

BTW you might want to rethink which one of us is the drunk guy calling a radio station though if you think Weeden stinks.

ETA: FTR I actually don't want it to happen, I want the higher pick.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Hikohadon wrote:A team that started 0-5 has never made the playoffs in the NFL, so it might be the strangest thing that ever happened.

It'd be cool if they made it interesting, but I think a more realistic goal would be to go 5-5 in the last 10, which would be surprising by itself.

There's absolutely no one on the schedule they can't beat, but no one they can't lose to. 6-10 would be a helluva accomplishment at this point.

Enough to save Paddy? Ehhhhh... :shrug :doubtit

I'd be ecstatic with 5 wins from here, especially if we saw continued improvement from each unit and the young players. But winning 3 in row from this point forward would not be the strangest thing and it would technically enter them into "the hunt". That's all I was really getting at.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Hikohadon wrote:A team that started 0-5 has never made the playoffs in the NFL, so it might be the strangest thing that ever happened.

It'd be cool if they made it interesting, but I think a more realistic goal would be to go 5-5 in the last 10, which would be surprising by itself.

There's absolutely no one on the schedule they can't beat, but no one they can't lose to. 6-10 would be a helluva accomplishment at this point.

Enough to save Paddy? Ehhhhh... :shrug :doubtit

I'd be ecstatic with 5 wins from here, especially if we saw continued improvement from each unit and the young players. But winning 3 in row from this point forward would not be the strangest thing and it would technically enter them into "the hunt". That's all I was really getting at.

And that would be awesome and make it a viable discussion.

But I'm gonna wait until they win 2 in a row before I even let my thoughts drift anywhere near there. They lose in Indy, and you can reset the Progress-O-Meter to zero.

Hikohadon wrote:A team that started 0-5 has never made the playoffs in the NFL, so it might be the strangest thing that ever happened.

It'd be cool if they made it interesting, but I think a more realistic goal would be to go 5-5 in the last 10, which would be surprising by itself.

There's absolutely no one on the schedule they can't beat, but no one they can't lose to. 6-10 would be a helluva accomplishment at this point.

Enough to save Paddy? Ehhhhh... :shrug :doubtit

I'd be ecstatic with 5 wins from here, especially if we saw continued improvement from each unit and the young players. But winning 3 in row from this point forward would not be the strangest thing and it would technically enter them into "the hunt". That's all I was really getting at.

And that would be awesome and make it a viable discussion.

But I'm gonna wait until they win 2 in a row before I even let my thoughts drift anywhere near there. They lose in Indy, and you can reset the Progress-O-Meter to zero.

I wouldn't go so far as to say reset it to zero, but I get your point, it'll sting a bit.

The thing is, yeah just bringing this up is ventures into the general area of absurd. But you know what could be argued to be equally absurd, is if we were 3-3 right now and people were taking playoffs of division title, all based upon the numbers we see in the W-L column. B/C ultimately the team wouldn't be any different in terms of personnel on the field or strategy coming from the clipboard.

Wins/losses are all that matter (in regards to moving onto the next round) but seeing what has transpired on the field, in the correct context and taking into consideration all of the circumstances that impact outcomes does come into play and hold value. It is hard not to acknowledge the presence of Joe Haden on the field and even state that IF he had played every game we would probably have won two more games (and he's just a CB). At 1-5 or 3-3 the team is still exactly what it is, BUT from one perspective optimism is viable and justified while from the other it is deemed more like a NASA pipe dream of colonizing Mars. If we were 4-2 or 5-1 would we be tempered in our enthusiasm and state the team is simply overachieving and is not playoff worthy?

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:At 1-5 or 3-3 the team is still exactly what it is, BUT from one perspective optimism is viable and justified while from the other it is deemed more like a NASA pipe dream of colonizing Mars. If we were 4-2 or 5-1 would we be tempered in our enthusiasm and state the team is simply overachieving and is not playoff worthy?

They're 1-5 because they blow. They're not 4-2 and they're not 5-1 and the reason for that is they blow.

1-5 is accurately reflective of their level of blow. They've earned every bit of that 5.

I'm not sure what level of blow you've been partaking in. But it's apparently staggering, Tony Montana levels of blow.

peeker643 wrote:They're 1-5 because they blow. They're not 4-2 and they're not 5-1 and the reason for that is they blow. I'm not sure what level of blow you've been partaking in.

So because they blow for the first six games of the year (or at least the first five), you're saying that they'll blow for the last 10? Automatically?

You believe that this personnel group cannot grow, they cannot adapt, they cannot blow less in the coming games than they did in the first six?

I'm not saying that they'll end up 4-12 or 3-13 or 2-14. I'm just hoping that this extremely young team matures a little bit over the course of this season, Shurmur or no Shurmur. It'll at least give us hope--something that's been in short supply here in Cleveland over the past two or three years (at least).

FUDU wrote:The thing is, yeah just bringing this up is ventures into the general area of absurd. But you know what could be argued to be equally absurd, is if we were 3-3 right now and people were taking playoffs of division title, all based upon the numbers we see in the W-L column. B/C ultimately the team wouldn't be any different in terms of personnel on the field or strategy coming from the clipboard.

Wins/losses are all that matter (in regards to moving onto the next round) but seeing what has transpired on the field, in the correct context and taking into consideration all of the circumstances that impact outcomes does come into play and hold value. It is hard not to acknowledge the presence of Joe Haden on the field and even state that IF he had played every game we would probably have won two more games (and he's just a CB). At 1-5 or 3-3 the team is still exactly what it is, BUT from one perspective optimism is viable and justified while from the other it is deemed more like a NASA pipe dream of colonizing Mars. If we were 4-2 or 5-1 would we be tempered in our enthusiasm and state the team is simply overachieving and is not playoff worthy?

Since you won't get anything but absolutes from Peeks on this, I'll say that really the best you can expect this team to be right now is 2-4. Fort makes that pick, they're 2-4. All the other games were winnable, they were IN them, but in the end needed at least a TD to tie, so I think it's a stretch to say our perspective is being changed by Wins/Losses rather than the team itself when the team itself would've had to play a lot better to have anything more than an extra win.

And to answer your question about 4-2 or 5-1... hell no I wouldn't temper enthusiasm. Outside of maybe Houston, who in the AFC is super-scary? The Browns can take the Ravens (maybe it's only twice out of 10 attempts, but they could do it). They can probably take the Pats too. So if this team with the plethora of youth that it has was 4-2 or 5-1, then that would make them legit. Especially since they would've had to play much better than they did to get to that record.

And all you gotta do is make the dance, then all bets are off.

Unlike with many a previous year, I think optimism is justifiable with this team no matter what the record. To me, now that they've won a game and are 6 games into the season, we get to truly see what this team is. Should be interesting.

But at 1-5, the playoff hopes are effectively done.

If they are to start playing like a decent team, that would be great, but it's just too late of a start.

peeker643 wrote:They're 1-5 because they blow. They're not 4-2 and they're not 5-1 and the reason for that is they blow. I'm not sure what level of blow you've been partaking in.

So because they blow for the first six games of the year (or at least the first five), you're saying that they'll blow for the last 10? Automatically?

You believe that this personnel group cannot grow, they cannot adapt, they cannot blow less in the coming games than they did in the first six?

I'm not saying that they'll end up 4-12 or 3-13 or 2-14. I'm just hoping that this extremely young team matures a little bit over the course of this season, Shurmur or no Shurmur. It'll at least give us hope--something that's been in short supply here in Cleveland over the past two or three years (at least).

"Blow" is the KC Chiefs.

Through the first 6, this team was "bad" to "meh".

They could always fall back to "bad", but there's plenty of reason to think they could evolve to "meh" to "decent".

Not to fuel the crazy that is this thread, but there are some significant factors that hurt the Browns in their first games.

* Richardson was hurt all preseason and couldn't get a feel for the game for a few weeks. He is now completely in the flow, although still learning.* Weeden was a rookie and looked like it at times. He is now making better decisions and reading defenses much more astutely* We had a rookie right tackle who also had a learning curve, and who is playing much better of late. The whole line is starting to gel* Little was our #1 receiver for the bulk of the first six games. He is out of the mix, and Gordon is proving to be a beast now that he's learning the pro game. Couple that with MoMass only being involved in, what, three plays, and the WR corps was seriously below what it will be in the second half.* Phil Taylor was out and should be back soon. You cant just replace Phil Taylor though Wynn and Hughes are doing an admirable job as rookies* Haden's suspension killed the secondary. That's a good portion of the reason the D looked like crap for the four losses, and the D was competitive in the first shoulda and the last win.* Randy Lerner still owned the team. I'm sure this translated to suck on the field somehow.* The linebackers replacing Gocong (and Fujita for that matter) are extremely raw, but have shown some flash and are improving weekly.

The team I liked in the preseason was vastly different than the team we fielded games 1-5. We're in a deep hole and the playoff talk is pure folly, but I expect less sucking in the future, and for the team almost to look kind of good by the end of the year. At which time it will probably be too late.

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:If the Browns win out, they might not even need the wild card to get in the playoffs.

They should do that then.

My expectations for this team are so low that I just want them to win this game against the Colts so I can fondly remember that "2 game stretch where they didn't suck and we had hope for the future for a brief moment", kind of like the Saints and Pats games in 2010 before the OT loss to the Jets brought the team back down to earth and then they tanked the rest of the season.

GodHatesClevelandSport wrote:If the Browns win out, they might not even need the wild card to get in the playoffs.

They should do that then.

My expectations for this team are so low that I just want them to win this game against the Colts so I can fondly remember that "2 game stretch where they didn't suck and we had hope for the future for a brief moment", kind of like the Saints and Pats games in 2010 before the OT loss to the Jets brought the team back down to earth and then they tanked the rest of the season.

This, a hundred times.

They WILL get stomped by the Chargers (Ryan Matthews will go for 120+ and 2 td's against our run defense without breaking a SWEAT, and their defense is still decent) They WILL lose to B'more, Dallas, and Denver. At a minimum. Almost definitely getting punked by Pittsburgh at home.

that's 6-10, BEST CASE scenario, outside of that. And i'll take that every day all day, given the horrific start to the season. I'm really just looking forward to Sunday to see where the guys are at after a win....like to see some progress, expecting the typical huge step backward.

Fuck I hate WKNR.

Check me out at Dawgsbynature, where I write stuff, or @twitter as Josh Finney.

Because saying what's said in the thread title and the OP is fucking stupid absolutely goes hand in hand with believing they can't or won't improve (Edit to add appropriate sarcastic reminder given audience).

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv (that's an "arrow down" and pointing at Lars, just so FUDU understands)

LarsHancock wrote:Not to fuel the crazy that is this thread, but there are some significant factors that hurt the Browns in their first games.

* Richardson was hurt all preseason and couldn't get a feel for the game for a few weeks. He is now completely in the flow, although still learning.* Weeden was a rookie and looked like it at times. He is now making better decisions and reading defenses much more astutely* We had a rookie right tackle who also had a learning curve, and who is playing much better of late. The whole line is starting to gel* Little was our #1 receiver for the bulk of the first six games. He is out of the mix, and Gordon is proving to be a beast now that he's learning the pro game. Couple that with MoMass only being involved in, what, three plays, and the WR corps was seriously below what it will be in the second half.* Phil Taylor was out and should be back soon. You cant just replace Phil Taylor though Wynn and Hughes are doing an admirable job as rookies* Haden's suspension killed the secondary. That's a good portion of the reason the D looked like crap for the four losses, and the D was competitive in the first shoulda and the last win.* Randy Lerner still owned the team. I'm sure this translated to suck on the field somehow.* The linebackers replacing Gocong (and Fujita for that matter) are extremely raw, but have shown some flash and are improving weekly.

The team I liked in the preseason was vastly different than the team we fielded games 1-5. We're in a deep hole and the playoff talk is pure folly, but I expect less sucking in the future, and for the team almost to look kind of good by the end of the year. At which time it will probably be too late.

peeker643 wrote:Still salting the shit sandwich he made before the season started.

Hey, by the time this season is over there will be a layer of spicy Asian slaw, some homemade bourbon BBQ sauce, fresh garlic pickles, and piles thick-slab slow smoked bacon on that shit sandwich so there will be a line out the door of the "Browns could have had 11 wins" store

Govbarney wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Lotulelei , Jones, or Mingo?, who do the Browns take with the #1 overall pick?"

Hater.

They're only 2 1/2 GB Denver, San Diego, Miami, Pittsburgh and Indianapolis and a mere 2GB the Jets, TN, Buffalo and Cinci. They're only 1 1/2 GB Oakland and ONLY 1/2 GB Jacksonville and KC!!!!

And you'd have to go to a determining factor beyond head-to-head if they tie the Bengals!!!!!

Yes, they are dead last in the conference but they were last week when we started considering this WC dream!!!!! And they can beat anyone or lose to anyone just like every single other team in the league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep the faith. Telling ya, if they get in you don't know what can happen.

Govbarney wrote:The title of this thread should be changed to "Lotulelei , Jones, or Mingo?, who do the Browns take with the #1 overall pick?"

Hater.

They're only 2 1/2 GB Denver, San Diego, Miami, Pittsburgh and Indianapolis and a mere 2GB the Jets, TN, Buffalo and Cinci. They're only 1 1/2 GB Oakland and ONLY 1/2 GB Jacksonville and KC!!!!

And you'd have to go to a determining factor beyond head-to-head if they tie the Bengals!!!!!

Yes, they are dead last in the conference but they were last week when we started considering this WC dream!!!!! And they can beat anyone or lose to anyone just like every single other team in the league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep the faith. Telling ya, if they get in you don't know what can happen.

Wow Peek , I never looked at it that way , plus at -33 we are ranked 10th in the conference in Score differential. Which is also the 10th tiebreaker between two clubs with the same record. Pour me a glass of that cool aid, and tell my woman I will be in New Orleans for groundhogs day this year.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman