Welcome to Earth. It's called survival, and if you cannot survive on your own (be it completely by yourself, or by unifying yourself with
civilization), then you can only hope that the cruel world takes you fast and without much pain. Evolution is the name of the game.

I'm not saying we need to let people starve. No one here is saying that. What we're saying is...people help those if they benefit themselves (either
monetarily or emotionally). Society helps those who help themselves.

You and doc Fail to recognize that unemployment is nearly 20%, a good deal of those people worked and added to the system, paid taxes, etc... You also
fail to recognize
that jobs are being shipped over seas and small business's are drying up.

So it is very easy to be righteous and ignore the realities, but sure enough some of you
are very righteous. Maybe you guys should secede and make your own country where you can live like apes and eat eachother or just execute the
unemployed upon grounds of laziness. The best part is you could prey upon eachother and everyone can agree before hand. Next you can become a super
human race and get to exterminating those who do not have big enough nuts around the world.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
I suggest you read Doc's previous posts. He used to be on the beach for TWO YEARS. He pulled himself up by the boot straps, like any decent human
being (kudos Doc), and he didn't even bother using the welfare system (unlike many who love to live off the fruits of others).

The only person you should be disgusted with is you and the limo-liberals who STEAL from hard working folks like Doc, and give his earnings to people
who...yes I'll say it....DON'T DESERVE IT!!!

Doc and Brainwrek, I tip my hat to you fellows. I can't stay in this thread without fuming.

Allow TPTB get what they want and eliminate all the 'useless eaters'?

Who needs TPTB? These guys are the power the ain't and they seem fine with the idea.

Unless of course these guys and friends have projected your desires upon TPTB agenda.

Originally posted by Darky5K
You didn't even answer my question, you even cut it out of your post

YES, they dig the idea, as long as the are unemployed, or lacking a job, cause they're all the same.

I feel it is clear, not their problem, if they cannot work for the machine they can parish.
TPTB might not mind that... they need the machine to have lubrication, authoritarians
love to preach free will and ignore circumstance. These guys claim to be for freedom,
and I would agree, freedom to be subjugated under the guise of freedom, while secretly hot for the Elites and the powerful. Closet cases

Perfect government solution. Close the schools and open the jails. There can be no serious attempt to solve the problem of poverty in America without
addressing our failed government-run school system.

Originally posted by koolerthanjesus
Perfect government solution. Close the schools and open the jails. There can be no serious attempt to solve the problem of poverty in America without
addressing our failed government-run school system.

And then education becomes like healthcare and just like it was before public school,
the wealthy become educated and the less so do not. On the other hand that would create lots of cheap labor, we could compete with China

Lower and middle income citizens are effectively denied freedom of choice in education because they are taxed to support the government schools and
cannot afford to pay twice for the same service. Like any coercive monopoly without any real competition, the government schools therefore produce an
inferior product at an exorbitant price. Time to give the private sector a shot.

Originally posted by koolerthanjesus
Lower and middle income citizens are effectively denied freedom of choice in education because they are taxed to support the government schools and
cannot afford to pay twice for the same service. Like any coercive monopoly without any real competition, the government schools therefore produce an
inferior product at an exorbitant price. Time to give the private sector a shot.

My problem is that once education goes it will be viewed just like healthcare.
People will only have access provided they have the funds. Prior to the modern invention of public schooling, education was used as an implement by
the affluent to ensure the mass stupidity of the cattle people. In GB the lower class was taught (if they could afford it or for free with purpose)
the lesser form of English so that the could not translate the decrees of the aristocracy. This is why you have a very British lower class slang that
has still not been purged generations later.

I tend to think the measure of education has to do with the parents, the student and most certainly the teacher.

Provided America did this, we would be amongst a very few nations that do not provided for public education, all of them being third world nations
heavy. I am not sure I would see good things coming from such a distinction, convince me...

Originally posted by koolerthanjesus
Perfect government solution. Close the schools and open the jails. There can be no serious attempt to solve the problem of poverty in America without
addressing our failed government-run school system.

Government has no business, nor power being involved in the education system.

I believe some people misunderstood my previous post. Either that or the simple idea of less government and less taxes is repulsive to some. The
statement the politician from South Carolina spoke was poorly chosen. I personally have no problem with the government helping those who are having a
rough time in tough economic times. However I am opposed to the government taking over and providing for all of our needs.

In that society and way of thinking if it kept progressing, the government might eventually mandate no drinking, no sex, no nothing except by
government permit due to risks for your own safety. You would just work and the government would keep your paycheck and give you permits or stamps to
take care of what they decided you needed for housing, food, etc. I believe some may like this idea but I don't. I believe Socialism provides for
everyone but there is a lot less for everyone.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
While some may say, 'well what about singer mothers with 5 children to take care of?' To that I say...."If you're in a period of your life where
you can't even work for yourself, then don't have kids! Having children is a conscious choice, and your childrens' suffering is your own fault and
you should be ashamed at creating a life that will only know suffering!"

And what about mothers who are deserted, who are widows, or who have abusive husbands?

My husband turned mean when we learned out 2 sons were handicapped, so he kept trying to injure and even kill them. So I had to leave him, and became
a single mother with 3 little kids. As 2 were handicapped I couldn't work, but that was no tragedy because I could get a single parent pension.
Despite rumours of this pension being extravagantly generous, I could not afford heating, and had to burn collected rubbish for warmth.

We survived, I attended classes and gained qualifications I could use working from home, I started paying taxes, and all my three children, despite
their handicaps and eligibility for pensions work and pay taxes too.

The total government support I got was ~$1,000,000.
Since then my children and I have paid about twice that in taxes, and they will be paying taxes for many years to come. It's a sound investment if
you ask me.

Single parents like me are the ones you never hear about, but we are not uncommon.

By the way, the single parent pension was not invented as an act of charity. It was worked out that it was cheaper to pay a woman to stay home and
look after her own children than to support them in an orphanage. So orphanages were closed and replaced with this pension.

yes, and well, if they privatized the school system, what would be the next thing that would happen?
oh, ya, the "poor!!"" we need to help the poor get educated!! then a program would be created to give the poor the funds needed to get their kids
educated, the income guidelines would be drawn up, who is eligible among all the needy, who isn't...and then, instead of it being just housing,
healthcare, child care, and food, energy that would be put at risk if that "poor" person worked a couple more hours of overtime, we could add
education to the mix as well!
And, I actually worked with a lady who knew exactly how much overtime she could get before her kid's state funded healthcare would be lost, and
believe me, she would never, ever, work more than that!!
so, ya, let's add another dimension to the mix, add another spear into the bottom of the gap!! make the taxpayers pay for more necessities for
others, that they can't afford for themselves or their own kids!!
god only knows, we need the cheap arsed labor! and it's the only way to keep enough of the masses down low enough to accept it!

No, as I said in a previous post. It is up to societies philanthropists to help. It is a choice to help the less fortunate. It should not be the law.
I realize some people are greedy and horde everything. But if you FORCE people to give, they too will keep what they can, and will not realize (or
care) about the plight of the less fortunate.

You're putting words in our (at least my) mouth(s). I didn't say people who are laid off need to just deal with it. In fact my initial post was
about the differences between unemployment and welfare. If you paid into the system (willingly or not), you should reap the benefits. That's
unemployment. But if you did not attribute, it should not be the job of the others in society to keep you afloat.

And what about mothers who are deserted, who are widows, or who have abusive husbands?

This is a sad and unfortunate event in humanity, and any abusive husband should be taught a lesson. A very long lasting one.

My husband turned mean when we learned out 2 sons were handicapped, so he kept trying to injure and even kill them. So I had to leave him, and became
a single mother with 3 little kids. As 2 were handicapped I couldn't work, but that was no tragedy because I could get a single parent pension.
Despite rumours of this pension being extravagantly generous, I could not afford heating, and had to burn collected rubbish for warmth.

This is a heart-wrenching story, and I'm sure there are many more like it. But at every turn, there are friends, family and neighbors. Even
charity's. Although, in this day in age, when your friends, family, neighbors and would be wealthy helpers are taxed into oblivion (anywhere between
25%-60% of their income), they are less likely to be able to give (even if they wanted).

We survived, I attended classes and gained qualifications I could use working from home, I started paying taxes, and all my three children, despite
their handicaps and eligibility for pensions work and pay taxes too.

And therein lies the problem. The taxation in America is redundant, and a way for the elite to horde money from even the people who need it the most
(such as yourself and your children). If you're family was not taxed, they would be able to live better, fuller lives as well as getting help from
others who could then afford to help. Humanity is a ruthless barrage of selfishness, but there are also MANY compassionate people who would help.

The total government support I got was ~$1,000,000.
Since then my children and I have paid about twice that in taxes, and they will be paying taxes for many years to come. It's a sound investment if
you ask me.

Is that a typo? Does that say roughly a million?! The average American makes between 1 and 2 million in his/entire ENTIRE lifetime according to the
census. I hope you are nearing 80 years old...

Single parents like me are the ones you never hear about, but we are not uncommon.

I have 5 aunts who have been married and divorced numerous times, and have on average 2-3 kids a piece. Granted child support helps (which I'm still
on the fence about, but we can discuss that in a later thread), but what got them through the tough times was all of their family pulling together and
helping. If you're entire family has passed on, I am truly sorry sorry. If they have not, and they have not helped, then shame on them.

By the way, the single parent pension was not invented as an act of charity. It was worked out that it was cheaper to pay a woman to stay home and
look after her own children than to support them in an orphanage. So orphanages were closed and replaced with this pension.

This I can't argue with. Any kind of government run facility is just a waste of time and money, and kids need as much love as they can get,
especially from a loving biological parent that wants to keep them and help them grow up. BUT, it should not be the job of the government (and by
proxy, us the tax-payers).

I'm sorry if you feel different, but I believe in a freer society, where there is less welfare and less taxes, people will pull together to help each
other out. Even in Haiti right now, without any law system, people are pulling together as a unit to fight off the bandits and scum of society who
would steal and kill for their own personal gain.

I tried to stay away from this thread because it was going to be twisted for political stance.

And it did happen . . .

Now while I didn't agree with the wording that the Lt. governor used, I agree with him, why? because he is telling the truth, if breeding in
American was not so profitable and beneficial for the purpose of government assistance and welfare, then we will not have so many illegal immigrants
coming to the US to breed for children's citizenships and benefits.

Plain and simple.

Take a good look around and see who are the ones doing the mass breeding in the US . . . is not only the poor and needy you know.

And therein lies the problem. The taxation in America is redundant, and a way for the elite to horde money from even the people who need it the most
(such as yourself and your children). If you're family was not taxed, they would be able to live better, fuller lives as well as getting help from
others who could then afford to help. Humanity is a ruthless barrage of selfishness, but there are also MANY compassionate people who would
help.

Well, I have to agree here, overtaxation is about 50 percent of the problem, the other 50 percent is that people are not paid enough to survive off
of, especially those in the lower wrungs of the business world, for example cashiers, food service personnel, and the like, what would you have them
do? And before you answer with "well tehy can get better jobs than that, attend some shool, earn a degree, etc." think about who will take those
positions then? High school students? They never last long primarily cause they would rather do something else than be employed, and are mostly
undependable anyway...sooo what do you suggest? More illegals to do it for next to nothing? If there are no more government handouts, there wouldn't
be any illegals, so then what do you think would happen to that corporation who sells you those Big macs you love so much? It would close down,
that's what. The problem only compounds from every angle anybody takes...this issue is like beating a dead horse...or liek a dream where you're
running and running, but not getting anywhere. Kiling off the poor people won't help, because a lot of corporations would be totally incapable of
running anymore without those people.

Well, I have to agree here, overtaxation is about 50 percent of the problem, the other 50 percent is that people are not paid enough to survive off
of, especially those in the lower wrungs of the business world, for example cashiers, food service personnel, and the like, what would you have them
do? And before you answer with "well tehy can get better jobs than that, attend some shool, earn a degree, etc." think about who will take those
positions then? High school students? They never last long primarily cause they would rather do something else than be employed, and are mostly
undependable anyway...sooo what do you suggest? More illegals to do it for next to nothing? If there are no more government handouts, there wouldn't
be any illegals, so then what do you think would happen to that corporation who sells you those Big macs you love so much? It would close down,
that's what. The problem only compounds from every angle anybody takes...this issue is like beating a dead horse...or liek a dream where you're
running and running, but not getting anywhere. Kiling off the poor people won't help, because a lot of corporations would be totally incapable of
running anymore without those people.

Taxation is also part of the reason why employees are paid so low. An employer pays typically 2 to 3 times the employees salary in taxes and training
and over head. If taxes were lifted off of smaller businesses for example, the employer would then be freed to pay the employee 1/3 more money, and
keep the other 1/3 for growing his business. It's a win/win. Of course there is no guarantee that would happen (though a smaller mom and pop shops
would probably help out their employees more than a giant corp would), it would allow the potential for higher pay, since the government won't steal
an employees wage through his/her employer as well.

Well, I have to agree here, overtaxation is about 50 percent of the problem, the other 50 percent is that people are not paid enough to survive off
of, especially those in the lower wrungs of the business world, for example cashiers, food service personnel, and the like, what would you have them
do? And before you answer with "well tehy can get better jobs than that, attend some shool, earn a degree, etc." think about who will take those
positions then? High school students? They never last long primarily cause they would rather do something else than be employed, and are mostly
undependable anyway...sooo what do you suggest? More illegals to do it for next to nothing? If there are no more government handouts, there wouldn't
be any illegals, so then what do you think would happen to that corporation who sells you those Big macs you love so much? It would close down,
that's what. The problem only compounds from every angle anybody takes...this issue is like beating a dead horse...or liek a dream where you're
running and running, but not getting anywhere. Kiling off the poor people won't help, because a lot of corporations would be totally incapable of
running anymore without those people.

Taxation is also part of the reason why employees are paid so low. An employer pays typically 2 to 3 times the employees salary in taxes and training
and over head. If taxes were lifted off of smaller businesses for example, the employer would then be freed to pay the employee 1/3 more money, and
keep the other 1/3 for growing his business. It's a win/win. Of course there is no guarantee that would happen (though a smaller mom and pop shops
would probably help out their employees more than a giant corp would), it would allow the potential for higher pay, since the government won't steal
an employees wage through his/her employer as well.

Great, that didn't occur to me, you may be on to something, but now who would fund the war? Do you think we should bring everybody home? Personally I
do, but we also have to protect our land, so I can't say if this would be harmful or helpful? See everyone fails to see the point that there is no
simple solution. At least I would like to think if there were, it'd already have happened, but maybe I see the glass as half empty?

Originally posted by koolerthanjesus
Perfect government solution. Close the schools and open the jails. There can be no serious attempt to solve the problem of poverty in America without
addressing our failed government-run school system.

Change the govt. run school system to what exactly? all private schools, who is gonna educate the too many kids of the poor then? themselves?

Providing an education is not easy but it is being provided, how one chooses to utilize the opportunity is the real issue.

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