@Toengel & Thomas, with regards to the discussion which started from post #54 on the fourth page of this thread:

Originally Posted by Philips - Thomas

Hi Jarno,

to make it clear for you, without any sarkasm or others:
"it is". 2 Words, describng a fact.

About your Requests, well what you expect is something, what we deliver with this Forum is something elso.
What you want from us is something we have never done in the past and will never do in the future.
We do know about Updates when we announce the Threads here.
That might be something which is not "enough" for you, but that is what we give to you.

Thomas

Well have you had this sort of firmware/software fiasco ever before? The software support so far has been utterly shameful, and you have lost not only potential new customers, but also long-time supporters. Desperate times call for desperate measures: if you can't fix the software yourself, then at least let someone else try. There isn't even any need to open all the proprietary code from affiliated companies (most of which are probably under NDA), you can still distribute them as closed binary blobs.

Unless, of course, you have outsourced all of the software development to a third party, and can't distribute any part of the code without their consent. In which case you can coerce the third party to fix it themselves, as it's clearly not working properly or as intended.

Originally Posted by Toengel

Hi,

2012 and 2013 chipsets are NOT the same (6000 series and up)...

Toengel@Alex

Intel i7-4770 and AMD A10-7700K (just as an example) are not the same chip, yet it's possible to run the same software in them. LibreOffice on Windows and Linux aren't bit-by-bit the same thing, yet they use most of the same codebase. Improvements and new features on one can be ported to the other.

All of the 2012 and 2013 models (and pretty much 99.99% of all modern TV sets, for that matter) use ARM processors. Even the DSPs most probably use the same instruction sets, or at a bare minimum they should be possible to port over. Furthermore, it would be logical to assume that the software engineers at Philips don't start from scratch EVERY year. So the actual question is: can the 2013 models' software (or rather, just the parts that are effectively broken in the 2012 models) compile in 2012 models?

Furthermore, there are features that have been working fine EARLIER, but the latter firmware updates have broken them (e.g. 3D). Or some features are working right with certain settings, when there is no logical reason why it shouldn't work with other settings (e.g. no color banding in standard mode, but noticeable color banding in Computer/Game mode).

Originally Posted by Toengel

Hi,

@psyk
you won't get any source code. Also the "new software" needs to be signed for installing on your TV.

Toengel@Alex

It's not like it couldn't be arranged so that the community gives the modified code (or rather, the critical improvements on it) to Philips, after which Philips can implement the code to an official firmware update...

==========================

And I would like to ask again:
1) Are the forum moderators in any direct discussion/contact with the engineers/programmers? Or are you simply re-distributing the firmware to customers (or more accurately, the changelog, as the files are actually in the product homepages, not in the forums)?
2) Could you check up on the engineers/programmers and ask for a list of issues currently being investigated or worked on?
3) Who is providing the support? TP Vision, Philips or TPV?
4) Who is responsible for the software?

@Toengel & Thomas, with regards to the discussion which started from post #54 on the fourth page of this thread:

Well have you had this sort of firmware/software fiasco ever before? The software support so far has been utterly shameful, and you have lost not only potential new customers, but also long-time supporters. Desperate times call for desperate measures: if you can't fix the software yourself, then at least let someone else try. There isn't even any need to open all the proprietary code from affiliated companies (most of which are probably under NDA), you can still distribute them as closed binary blobs.

Unless, of course, you have outsourced all of the software development to a third party, and can't distribute any part of the code without their consent. In which case you can coerce the third party to fix it themselves, as it's clearly not working properly or as intended.

Intel i7-4770 and AMD A10-7700K (just as an example) are not the same chip, yet it's possible to run the same software in them. LibreOffice on Windows and Linux aren't bit-by-bit the same thing, yet they use most of the same codebase. Improvements and new features on one can be ported to the other.

All of the 2012 and 2013 models (and pretty much 99.99% of all modern TV sets, for that matter) use ARM processors. Even the DSPs most probably use the same instruction sets, or at a bare minimum they should be possible to port over. Furthermore, it would be logical to assume that the software engineers at Philips don't start from scratch EVERY year. So the actual question is: can the 2013 models' software (or rather, just the parts that are effectively broken in the 2012 models) compile in 2012 models?

Furthermore, there are features that have been working fine EARLIER, but the latter firmware updates have broken them (e.g. 3D). Or some features are working right with certain settings, when there is no logical reason why it shouldn't work with other settings (e.g. no color banding in standard mode, but noticeable color banding in Computer/Game mode).

It's not like it couldn't be arranged so that the community gives the modified code (or rather, the critical improvements on it) to Philips, after which Philips can implement the code to an official firmware update...

==========================

And I would like to ask again:
1) Are the forum moderators in any direct discussion/contact with the engineers/programmers? Or are you simply re-distributing the firmware to customers (or more accurately, the changelog, as the files are actually in the product homepages, not in the forums)?
2) Could you check up on the engineers/programmers and ask for a list of issues currently being investigated or worked on?
3) Who is providing the support? TP Vision, Philips or TPV?
4) Who is responsible for the software?

@Toengel & Thomas, with regards to the discussion which started from post #54 on the fourth page of this thread:

Well have you had this sort of firmware/software fiasco ever before? The software support so far has been utterly shameful, and you have lost not only potential new customers, but also long-time supporters. Desperate times call for desperate measures: if you can't fix the software yourself, then at least let someone else try. There isn't even any need to open all the proprietary code from affiliated companies (most of which are probably under NDA), you can still distribute them as closed binary blobs.

Unless, of course, you have outsourced all of the software development to a third party, and can't distribute any part of the code without their consent. In which case you can coerce the third party to fix it themselves, as it's clearly not working properly or as intended.

Intel i7-4770 and AMD A10-7700K (just as an example) are not the same chip, yet it's possible to run the same software in them. LibreOffice on Windows and Linux aren't bit-by-bit the same thing, yet they use most of the same codebase. Improvements and new features on one can be ported to the other.

All of the 2012 and 2013 models (and pretty much 99.99% of all modern TV sets, for that matter) use ARM processors. Even the DSPs most probably use the same instruction sets, or at a bare minimum they should be possible to port over. Furthermore, it would be logical to assume that the software engineers at Philips don't start from scratch EVERY year. So the actual question is: can the 2013 models' software (or rather, just the parts that are effectively broken in the 2012 models) compile in 2012 models?

Furthermore, there are features that have been working fine EARLIER, but the latter firmware updates have broken them (e.g. 3D). Or some features are working right with certain settings, when there is no logical reason why it shouldn't work with other settings (e.g. no color banding in standard mode, but noticeable color banding in Computer/Game mode).

It's not like it couldn't be arranged so that the community gives the modified code (or rather, the critical improvements on it) to Philips, after which Philips can implement the code to an official firmware update...

==========================

And I would like to ask again:
1) Are the forum moderators in any direct discussion/contact with the engineers/programmers? Or are you simply re-distributing the firmware to customers (or more accurately, the changelog, as the files are actually in the product homepages, not in the forums)?
2) Could you check up on the engineers/programmers and ask for a list of issues currently being investigated or worked on?
3) Who is providing the support? TP Vision, Philips or TPV?
4) Who is responsible for the software?

I wanted to use the Network port RJ45 contact, but it wasn't working.
I could feel it was lose = not really attached as it should be.

So I contacted Philips Service, that sent a guy over with a new Motherboard.

We could see that the RJ45 on the old Motherboard wasn't soldered on properly, there was simply no tin solder on one side.

When the new Motherboard was attached and all screws back again, and we turned the TV on, there was no sound ...

So open up the TV again, and back with the old Motherboard.

Then wait like 12 days before they should get a new Motherboard from Germany.

And when the day came, no new Motherboard available ...

So instead of a new Motherboard, the guy came and picked my Philips TV up.

And I got a Credit Note from Philips Swedish Service Partner, for the entire amount I had paid for the TV October 1, 2012.

And I went to the same store again, and got me a brand new Samsung 48" Smart Tv for FREE (since I had the Credit!), that are SO MUCH FASTER than this crappy Philips model was!

So ... my advice to all you guys is that you check to see if that RJ45 Network plug on the back is working at all, and if not then contact Philips Service, and with some luck you'll get credited instead of that they fix the TV!

Well, you are lucky. but not everyone is that lucky.
I had the feeling of sending back the 46PFL4908T/12 philips smart tv to the vendor I bought from because I simply did not like it because of its poor performance and bad UI. But sadly I was not lucky since there is no manufacturing or shipping defect in the TV.
I bought PHILIPS because from my childhood I had an impression of this brand. We had Philips TV, Audio System and they were good. But now my that illusion is broken.
I will try to re-sell this TV with great loss of money and will not buy any product from Philips now. Same goes to Lumia phones because of Nokia. Old players are out.
Better test the product many times before you buy.

I saw a comment on watching 3D movies earlier in this topic. And I haven't watched any 3D movies for about a year, but I tried to watch RIO 2 3D and another IMAX movie in 3D and they were unwatchable.
What happened between now and a year ago? Is there anyway to bring out a new firmware with the lastest improvements and the old 3D? (From say firmware 150.89)

- Year 2012 Smart TVs still lacking support -
And I would like to ask again:
1) Are the forum moderators in any direct discussion/contact with the engineers/programmers? Or are you simply re-distributing the firmware to customers (or more accurately, the changelog, as the files are actually in the product homepages, not in the forums)?

Obviously, the Moderators do know very little more than visible for any customer at the Philips homepage. See the Blue Ray Player forums: A new FW for the BDP7700 was promised for end of 2013, then for end of April 2014, and its still not here. Despite the fact that the device refuses to play many official BlueRays released in the past months.
The R&D keeps them short, so the poor Moderators regularly embarrass themselves by communicating timelines made up to make customers to keep their devices until warranty ends.

Originally Posted by aatu

2) Could you check up on the engineers/programmers and ask for a list of issues currently being investigated or worked on?

If there is one thing we've learned during the past years: There is obviously no such thing as a list of issues. That's why they did not fix a single one of the many old issue reported here with every new release. If they fix something at all, it is a bug introduced with the release before. What give them the chance to reintroduce the same bug again (for ex. the 5-pixel-shift in PC mode)

Originally Posted by aatu

3) Who is providing the support? TP Vision, Philips or TPV?

Short and brutal answer: Obviously by no one. Or who is willing to call what we get here or by official support chats/phone numbers support?
The official support line even dropped my call without saying good bye when I confronted them in a friendly fashion with the fact they tell me the opposite of what the moderators are writing here.

Originally Posted by aatu

4) Who is responsible for the software?

TPVision's SW Department in Bangalore (India). This also explains the poor English in the official release notes.

And about getting the Source code:
The only thing being under GPL license is the Linux Kernel and some Libraries used. And that's what they provide if you ask them about. The actual TV Application and also FPGA images are proprietary by TPVision and so their is no obligation to provide any sources. And even if they would like to provide it, they can't. A modern TV set contains a lot of functions depending on proprietary licenses of 3rd parties (video decoders, HDMI, CI+, ...) for which TP Vision does not own the rights to give them away.

Umm, why are there some posts being deleted here? The last post on this thread only a day or two ago was from x7007. And it was fairly innocent, simply asking if there are any news or updates with regards to the situation. But at the moment the latest post is SeppTruetsch's, which was posted NINE days ago.

I would like to remind Philips/TPVision, or rather make sure they understand, just how lucky they are that the discussion has thus far been limited only to their own support forum. In here, the PR exposure is fairly limited.

But what do you think happens when the customers begin to feel that they are not getting what they want from this forum, let alone when they feel like they are not allowed to raise their concerns for inadequate or slow support, while the company is focusing only on newer products? They will naturally go spread the word somewhere else, and I can assure you, all the "other places" are guaranteed to have more exposure to the bigger audience.

You do understand that this vocal outcry is a result of Philips' support being so utterly poor, right? Do you think we ENJOY wasting our time on some support forum? No, we'd rather be enjoying our products. And if you think we'll just let you off the hook if you simply stay silent, then you're sadly mistaken.

In summary:
Don't let your old customers down, while focusing on the new customers. That should be Marketing 101, and I can't for the life of me grasp how your superiors are missing this. Or are your superiors simply oblivious to the fact of how things are at the moment? Do you guys know who gets the shaft once they realize their product demand is declining? I can give you a hint: "s**t flows downwards".

In other words:
Keep the firmwares coming.

@SeppTruetsch:
Indeed, most of the points that you brought up are exactly what I'm afraid of.

As for the source code:
Besides GPL'd code, there's indeed also their own code, which they can modify by themselves, and should have free reign over it. Yes, there's no OBLIGATION to provide it. But if they don't intend to solve the problems themselves, then they could let someone else have a look. As for licensed third party code: they don't have to open the actual proprietary code, they can just open the code that calls for those procedures/algorithms/libraries, which in turn is most probably their own code. Like said, there are some features that work correctly in one mode, but not in another, and even features that were working right in earlier firmwares, but got broken in latter versions. The proprietary third party code is probably not the culprit there.

I confirm the 3D problem mentioned in this thread. I also confirm reseting TV settings (once/twice a month) which makes me and my family crazy! I also notice that TV automatic turn off (once since FW upgrading which took place in May). Resseting TV settings is most frustrating.

I confirm the 3D problem mentioned in this thread. I also confirm reseting TV settings (once/twice a month) which makes me and my family crazy! I also notice that TV automatic turn off (once since FW upgrading which took place in May). Resseting TV settings is most frustrating.

So Ture! I dont care about all the gimmic and function, but resetting tv settings is killing me!!! it began in FW 91. And it turns off after 2 hours even though I have turned off the "auto turn" off function.

After upgrade to FW 150.92 I have to restart TV maybe every day, terrible... Sound is jerky, when we watch movie via ethernet (from NAS ) or USB. Is possible downgrade to previous version ? Where I can find older FW ? Thanks

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