Originally posted by PETROLCOIN
and every U.S. state except Idaho, Mississippi, and Wyoming.

I'm in Boise, Idaho. I just donated some $$. they are not taking pizza orders, just donations in $20 increments. They also shut down normal
operations and are only taking orders for the donations. Pretty cool

Originally posted by Darkrunner
The unions have become a corporation. The very type of corporation that many here despise.

I agree they had their place back in the days of child labor and such.

But today? The unions are as much of a multi-million dollar business as the corporations are. Plain and simple.

Can't you see the difference? The unions are for the workers welfare, And the corporations are for the stockholders and profit at the expense of the
people that actually do the damn WORK.

I'm a proud member of AFTRA/SAG and without my union representation, I would have no healthcare, no retirement, and no recourse if I get hurt on the
job. The production companies only care about the bottom line and to hell with the crew.

I just donated to my union brothers and sisters in Madison as well. In unity there is strength. Unions....kickinass for the working class!!!

[Sarcasm]
Further evidence shows that while Egyptians did not directly place the pizza order for the Wisconsin protesters, Ian's Pizza does outsource it's
phone ordering customer service to a small Call Center in Cairo.
Karl Gerbschmidt of Elk Rutt, WI placed the order for his brother Leo who is a protesting Phy-Ed teacher in Madison. Mr Gerbschmidt was so satisfied
with his ordering experience that he Tweeted about it to all of his friends and news was Tweeted on and on and eventually became slightly altered from
the original testimonial.
[/Sarcasm]

First thing that came to mind is the fact that the average family or person in Egypt can't afford a pizza. Especially an intercontinental pizza.
From the reports I have read, most families live on $2 or less a day. I think the money would be better utilized by maybe supporting those less
fortunate in their own country instead of trying to make a political statement. Setting aside my usual rational and logical thinking, I think it's a
pretty damn cool idea!

I just gotta say, to digress from the point of this thread, is that I'm surprised the issue is whether or not unions should exist as opposed to what
can we do to control the power of unions. It would be ignorant to say that there is not corruption in unions. It is equally ignorant to say that
there is not corruption in corporations and our government. But just because they are corrupted, does not mean they should be done away with
entirely.

The protest isn't about salaries. The protest is about the governor taking a radical position in order to fix something he did himself. Does no one
see what is right in front of them? The governor gave huge tax breaks to the corporations and are making the gov't workers pay for his tax cuts? Why
is it when a liberal mentions tax the rich to make up for deficits, the pigeons cry fowl. When the government gives tax breaks to the corporations
(the rich) and expect the taxpayers to suffer (remember, union workers are tax payers too!) these same people say they deserve it even though the
reason for the action is meant to be a solution to a problem they did not create.

This protest is about the power of corporations. Instead of rolling back the taxes on the corporations, the governor is asking others to make the
sacrifice. And it is sacrifice. Unions are important. Why is it that corporations should ever have all the power on how they treat and compensate
their workers?

If a corporation is now treated as an individual in the eyes of the law, then aren't unions that much more important being as it is the only way to
balance the power?

Think about it on a bigger scale. The constitution expressly balances the power between the different branches of the federal government. It then
balances the power between the entirety of the federal government and the citizens in this country. I believe the same should work between
corporations and unions.

Also keep in mind that the governor is unwilling to give an inch and the union is willing to give a mile.

In reality, as new members of the democratic process, they're mostly just feeling solidarity regardless of what is being protested with other members
of democratic governments that are also using the process to protest their desires peacefully, but really, you think they are rooting for the
government which is trying to lessen the voice of the people? Thats what Egypt is into right now? Do you enjoy putting the blinders on every morning
or are they somehow necessary?

mrsdudaraThat is amazing!!! I LOVE IT!

I would like to know what the Wisconsins were protesting though. Why didnt I hear anything about this protest and Egyptians did? HMMMM Maybe I
would have protested to if it was that important that everyone else in the world knew about it.

hahaha, nice one, that is fresh. lol, jk at least you know now.

jibehoI don't think that people realize that it is the unions who have long maintained the stronghold, the leverage and the power. NOT the Govt. The
govt. is biting back in the best interest of the majority of the taxpayers. FOR ONCE. Representatives are actually doing what they were ELECTED to
DO!!

The Unions are bloated and choose to spend money in ways that can just baffle the mind. SEIU spent $60 million on Obama's 2008 campaign. 60 million
dollars!! to get their ace in the hole.

60 Million dollars? Really, do you have any idea how much corporations spend in American elections? 60 million dollars pales in comparison to that
number.

RealtruthI agree teachers deserve a good pay, but when the country is in a virtual depression salaries need to be adjusted accordingly.

c'mon people, at their heart, unions are good, they are an idea; they allow people to come together and use their collective bargaining
ability to achieve better wages than the lowest common denominator wages they would recieve if it was just left up to the supply and demand system of
pure capitalism. Maybe the unions have become too greedy and abuse their power, is the answer really to take away the idea of collective bargaining
all together? That is like giving a kid the ability to ask for what he wants, however, when he takes advantage of this ability, you say, no, sorry we
tried to let you have a say, but you abused it now we are going to take it away, you can never ask for what you want again. Teach the person to voice
their desires responsibly? Nope, you messed up, no more asking for what you want.

Thats how American politics works now adays, no chance to try and work out an intelligent compromise as Americans, just take the extreme
position and attack attack attack. But why not? There are plenty of people to jump on your band wagon.

It just annoys me how many people support policies that lessen the political power of the people for misguided and bloated ideals rather
than coming together and figuring out what is the best for America and its citizens.

No political pundit can stand and preach to you what is best for the family of man. There is no possibility to brainwash people into
thinking a certain way when the sole mediator is what is best for all human beings. This truth comes from within but it tends to get lost among the
noise. Everyone gets caught up in what they hear, support this position, support that position, this is evil, this is right, we need to look past all
the political hoopla and talking points and make decisions based on is this the right thing to do from a standpoint of does it empower people and make
the world a better place.

Sometimes the forums at ATS just tire me, no one is right and no one is wrong, we're just voicing the iterations that we have heard
repeated to us over and over again, and we are never using critical thinking and nothing will ever get solved.

edit on 21-2-2011 by
beansanmash because: I still dont understand why I have to say why I edited it... I changed some things.

A big thank you to Egypt. Your kindness is appreciated as it shows sympathy to others. With that said, the US is worlds away from what is going on in
Egypt. Our country is made up of sovereign states that are like little countries unto their selves. The laws are different from state to state. The
people who live in those states decide on the laws and vote for who they think will best represent them. To have the US President start busing in
people from neighboring states to protest against the governor of WI would kinda be like Italy sending people over to Egypt to protest against the
people of Egypt for protesting for freedom. This will backfire, as I am sure the PEOPLE OF WI can handle their own affairs. Best to just stay out of
it.

First off I must admit that I am a member of a union, I think for obvious reasons I will leave which one up to your imagination...

I would just like to inform you that OSHA though a good in theory organization if you will is really not what most people think of it. In my line of
work I deal with hazards that are life threatening every day, so do my non-union counterparts, and OSHA does define some loose regulations for our
field of work, but that’s really it. When I’m safe away from working conditions that are "less than" favorable my non-union brothers are out
there working putting their life on the line for what? You guessed it the all mighty dollar there parent companies for the most part could care less
about the dangers around them as long as there work comes in on time and under budget. I personally took part in an Osha training class a few weeks
ago (osha 10) This class was narrowed down for my particular work field we were shown studies that showed work related death and injuries for our
combined work field and then broken down into union and non union sides, if I recall correctly for every injury sustained by the union members in my
line of work there was something like 2.2 injuries for the non union side. The difference for on the job deaths was lower it was something like 1.362
if I remember correctly though I could be wrong. In my line of work Osha sets its standards as the min for work place safety and as such many non
union companies in my line of work stick to those standards (though I must state that there are non union companies that do go well beyond those
standards) where as my union has taken those standards and raised them well above the min to provide me and my coworkers a relatively safe and healthy
work environment. Also the union provides me and my co-workers with a higher salary and better benifits

but listen to my blather on... what I’m getting at is Osha is kind of like your local law enforcement agency they are there to protect us, but they
cannot be everywhere at once, when they do find an offence they are more than happy to throw a ticket at it, and that may stop the unsafe work
conditions for a while but just like with anything time heals all wounds if you will and soon that company will be back to putting its labor force in
harm’s way again trying to chase down that dollar. Of course you could counter with but that holds the same for your union company too, and yes it
does the difference is, and this is key to my argument, Osha is just one layer of protection that I am given. If I feel that I am being placed in an
unsafe, unfair and other wise poor working condition/place I have the right and privilege of contacting my local union and or OSHA and filing a
complaint, and my union will back me if I am in the right about said complaint. What does this mean to the company that I am working for? Well first
off they will have to deal with any OSHA penalties, and secondly they will have to deal with and union penalties, not limited monetary punishment but
up to and including the loss of their work force (losing union status). I am proud of my union and its members are we all honest are we
incorruptible? No but if you can give me one collective of human society that is, I will gladly admit that i am wrong and be on my way.

I hope that if nothing else this post has made you think about your opinions of unions, and the fairness of judging all unions as one collective
whole, It was not my goal to change your mind but to give you something to think about.

P.S. i have many friends and family who work union and non in many different fields, some love their union and some hate their union. this post was
in no way supposed to validate any union, it was supposed to show semi factual (due to my lack of remembering the statistics) information regarding
the union and non union workers in my trade. thank you for your time

Wonderful post and thank you for sharing your story. You said exactly what is key to the debate on unions. Without them, corporations would run
amok, but they also need to be brought down a notch or too sometimes. But to say they should go away entirely is not reasonable in my opinion.
Unless the collective power of corporations goes away, the unions should not.

And I do think the same goes for governments and their unions. When the economy is in trouble, usually because of poor decisions made by the
government, even after the protest of the taxpayers, they expect everyone else to compensate for it except those who benefit from it. People also
point to the taxpayers of WI agreeing the the governor's stance. I would ask exactly what their other option was? If you are given a false
dichotomy, especially when it comes to one in which you HAVE to make one of the two choices, it says nothing about what option was chosen. Not to
mention the fact that the taxpayers are always willing to make the government employees sacrifice before themselves. Wouldn't you? We all have the
idea that government workers are overpaid. Of course your going to opt that they lose something before you pay more taxes. I would imagine that, for
most people, the reason why the decision needs to be made is irrelevant in comparison to what you may have to sacrifice if you don't make that
decision.

Originally posted by PETROLCOIN
I think everyone on the planet should take a look at Earth from space and take note of what they do not see. What they will not see are borders.
Borders create nationalities. Nationalities create differences. Differences create division.

We may all be different in our own personal, unique ways, but what we share with everyone around us regardless of nationality is the desire to live,
love, and laugh in freedom and prosperity.

Borders are imaginary. The differences they create should be imaginary as well. I hope one day for a global awakening where we see that and stop
fighting one another and start fighting those who wish to deprive us of our desire to live, love, and laugh in freedom and prosperity.

Stories like these are just one small step towards achieving that. I believe we are heading in the right direction and people are beginning to realize
that there are powerful, evil people trying to control the lives of billions and that we all need to stand together as one to combat it. But there is
still more work that can be done.

I have been saying it for a few weeks now since these protests in the Middle East and Africa began - if nothing else, at least show your moral support
to the causes of the people who are taking to the streets in protest of the oppression they face on a daily basis. We all face the same problems. We
all need to speak the same voice.

It may be a cliché phrase, but it still rings true: United we stand. Divided we fall.

I have read enough about Unions being evil corporations..... In this case it is the unions fighting for rights of state employees. The right to
bargain wages - Scott Walker is trying to pass a bill to take away that right. In this case it is not Unions VS corporation it is Union VS government
- and that is why we need unions for government employees, or the government would run a muck of everything much like it is proposing to do. I will
not disagree that there are some very large unions out there that act more like corporations - but that argument has no place in this topic. This bill
will also cut heath benefits and pensions for all government workers NOT JUST TEACHERS. They are just getting the publicity because Madison is a
liberal city with a good college that is known for teaching their students "alternative" education. One of the very few people that I actually talk
to about ATS subjects went to school there and that person actually knows what I am talking about. Scott walker plans to take away from the very
people that provide for the WI citizens, the very people that provide an education and mold the future of WI citizens. Messed up! Do you have any idea
what a WI teacher makes a year.... ?? ANY of you...?? Less than 50k, and in most cases less than 40k. Most of the people claiming that government
employees make too much money have NO IDEA what the people protesting in Madison that day were actually protesting for. People have were protesting
all week all over the state in small groups in all the smaller cities as well.

I must say, that when I called the pizza place, I could just hear the thankfulness in the guys voice. In fact, he thanked me several times. It was
obvious that he had taken calls from places he never imagined. In fact, the first thing they ask you is your name and where you are from. They want
to know. I mean, they even closed down shop just to limit their operations to the inpouring of calls they are getting. I can't imagine what the
atmosphere must be like at the pizza place (Ian's, to be exact). To spend your days making pizza's for Jo Schmo in Madison, WI to suddenly making
pizza's for people from several different countries worldwide as an act of pure kindness and support must be a humbling experience.

With all of the negative crap going on right now in the world that was a very up lifting event for humanity,THis shows how humanity really can unite
no matter what beliefs or ideals you have. I have to say this is the start of universal conciousness. These kinds of things are things the elites do
not want to see.Which is people taking care of people. Our goverment will watch you starve in the streets before they did something like this. Thank
you Egypt for showing your kindness to us and the world. I hope these actions spread.

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