havfun write: ive always been a social misfit. i have few friends,my estranged wife lives with my relatives, they have a poor opinion of me. regardless, a lot of this is my fault, due to poor attitudes. the bible is the ultimate selfhelp book folks, im learning to love, tolerate othersand to love , tolerate myself. yes, there are many philosophies, religions but none gives me the peace I have found through God. I see conflicts and have questions. All I know is Gods love makes loneliness and pain endurable, and nothing else ever has. im sure im not the only person here hurting, lonely, confused or depressed God really is the ultimate answer for all. most bikers are free spirits, its hard to give Him controlof your life. sorry if i sound preachy! haha

Havefun,

Sounds like you may suffer from a lot of verbal abuse and my intuition says you have some background noise in your head that makes life challenging.
You are what you think yourself to be and if you repeat what others tell you about yourself than you continue the spell they have woven over you.
I am glad you find comfort in the bible and will pray that you find peace and acceptance of yourself within yourself. God doesn't love you because your a sinner. He loves you because you are wonderously made by his hands in his image. Love yourself as He loves you that you might learn to Love others. It is more than just tolerating.
I would say if you are in a great deal of pain it is a signal that something needs to be healed and God wants to heal you not just help you endure it. If you can find help out of your normal circle where you are comfortable; I would say seek out someone you can have confidence in on a professional level that can help you. If you begin to feel uncomfortable let God lead you and dont be afraid to go where He leads. Remember the "footprints in the sand poem"
Peace and healing to you

and one thing I learned when I woke up in the nursery just because I am done with my nap doesn't mean everyone else is and a crying room of infants isn't anything you want to endure because until they are ready to wake up they won't appreciate you waking them up.
Enjoy the silence and an open playground eventually you will begin to find those who are done with their nap and who knows you might even find a tribe of friends...but as fuana's sister and I have discussed the mountain top is often lonely..

Note: the biggest harm the lack of awareness does is continue a lot of the psychic disease that hurts everyone and everything around us. So I guess in retrospect even though we all get there eventually it would be nice if more of us could have a spritual experience and awareness earlier and begin healing the wasteland. However, my faith in the healing miracle is also great and my own mortal timeline is different than a mountain's.

I think it is like the Buddhist and the 10,000 things.
If you get wrapped up in everyone and thing around you, you loose focus on yourself and your journey.
Christ's disciples when they were concerned with what would happen to Christ favored apostle were told..."what concern is it of yours how "" is treated? You follow me." I think we can often times be too concerned outside. Think of it like riding a motorcycle if you spend all your time gazing around and focusing on everything going on around you, you risk hitting a pot hole or something larger in your own road. Nothing wrong with enjoying the scenery but keep the focus on your journey so you don't loose your life being concerned about the distractions around you.
"Pretty girl...ouch didn't see the pole"
As for others smelling like roses, I think Oscar Wilde did an excellent treatment of the subject in his novel "Dorian Grey". If you haven't read it I suggest it.
Like a battery where a deliberate imbalance exist whose energy is released either through time or the utilization, life is full of opposites and that tension of choice and realization is what provides the electrical potential of human choice.
I think as some of us develop we start out developing a relationship with ourselves and then our place in a family. If we aren't totally egocentric we begin in adolescences building relationships to others, the world, society etc. As we mature our ability to relate to a larger and larger sphere of reality increases as well as our ability to comprehend, perceive and experience an awareness of something beyond the physical veil, but again it is a case of maturity and focus. Some take longer than others but it doesn't really matter in the end because we all get there. (Remember heliocentricity wasn't a welcomed concept for a long time but it didn't stop a few from enjoying its discovery.)
If we change just ourselves the world is changed.
I am
Pe...

ive always been a social misfit. i have few friends,my estranged wife lives with my relatives, they have a poor opinion of me. regardless, a lot of this is my fault, due to poor attitudes. the bible is the ultimate selfhelp book folks, im learning to love, tolerate othersand to love , tolerate myself. yes, there are many philosophies, religions but none gives me the peace I have found through God. I see conflicts and have questions. All I know is Gods love makes loneliness and pain endurable, and nothing else ever has. im sure im not the only person here hurting, lonely, confused or depressed God really is the ultimate answer for all. most bikers are free spirits, its hard to give Him controlof your life. sorry if i sound preachy! haha

Saxon,
Thank you for the great dialogue.
Yes, it is interesting to note a comment about the Elyusian Mysteries near the Agean Sea talking about those who witnessed the mystery being blessed in the present and next life. I will have to dig through my Greek text and find that quote.
7 grams for completion times 4 grams for the four sacred directions upon which your soul will journey.

I think it is interesting the law of conservation that energy can be neither created nor destroyed. So lets say you are a Viking and one day your in battle fever with passion and adrenaline swinging your axe, sword or hammer around when instantly you are struck dead. What happens to all that energy? Is it just the body heat slowly ebbing away? What is the energy of personality and where does it go?
Though energy can be neither created or destroyed it can be transformed albeit never quite a perfect transistion something is always lost a third or fourth energy form.
Remember also e=mc^2 so that energy and mass are interchangeable. Do the math, how much energy is released by a 28 gram loss of mass?

Although I think my favorite line is by Shakespeare's Hamlet,
"there are more things in heaven and earth Horatcio than are dreamt of men's philosophies."

It is a wonderful mystery we are part of and am glad that I am.
Peace and wonder to you my distant brother.

Pagan was a term used by the Romans to indicate those country dwellers those who refused to live in the cities.
So given that, every religion originates in Paganism because the presence of God or Mystery was revealed in our relationship with nature or in the country.
The first artifact that indicated homo sapiens had developed a religious sense is guessed to be about 60000 years old. It was an axe. An axe to big to be used, to decorative to be a tool, it was an article of worship.
Religion--Religio--is a linking back to your past or should be. Tradition and lineage is the fiber of the soul. A soul with deep roots will be strong in the temporal storms of the present.
I think the real issue against modern "religion" is too many are angry at the abundance of judgements and the absence of wise practiced guidance.

Rogue write: That religions that have been around for centuries longer than Judaism or Christianity, aren't considered to be "real" religions?

And please don't give me that "the bible says......"

Men wrote the bible, not "god". and the bible contridicts itself. Don't believe me, read it closely.

I'm as confused as you are about religions. I was raised Catholic. I have also searched into other religions.
I will deffend none today. But I will defend the right to what others chose to believe.
So with all that said, am I humble enough to admit I believe there is a God. You betcha, works for me.
Chkn

"Variety is the spice of life"... a quote not without substance. Glad we live where 'variety' is not a crime, whether it's in the faith/belief/religion we choose, the bikes we ride, the dogs we love (French Bulldog for me) or our favorite pizza toppings. Crazy mixed up world we live in and am sure I'm one the squirrels are after... the BIG nut...

A lot of good thoughts in these posts... enjoyed reading them. A reminder for me about 'centering'... and a much needed one about not judging books by their cover... I always forget that one. And some thoughts about loving ourselves as we are... even tho it wasn't written... the lesson is there if you read between the lines. That part about loving our neighbor as ourselves is always a tough one.

Ya'all are just a nice bunch of folks to run into...and that's cool. Glad you're here...

The bible has been misqouted and interpeted differently by all christians.That is what people do.the car wreck deal is what it is all about.We all see things differently,and always will.Rogue I understand everything you say and felt the same for years,until.No one can make you feel a certain way,because God did give us Freedom.We have freedom of all things,strictly from our faith.Our hope of everlasting life with God is suppose to guide us thru our days.Reading the Bible is something I do as a Christian,just as other religions follow their faith.We as Americans with our country founded on Christainity could never understand the moslum way of life just as we can't understand the buddist way of life.We all have our own crosses to bear and will have deal with our own deamons.

Ok, here's a thought. Why don't all of you who believe in "god" do some checking and find out how much of Christianity was stolen from the Pagan faiths. In fact, there's very little, if anything, original in the Judeo-Chritian faiths.

thunderunderme write: WOW...except for Greywolf (only b/c I don't know you brother) these last posts have been from men who I respect and admire greatly....You are good men and I have been blessed to know you. Knowing you has enriched my own growth. Continuing on my spoke to the center... Cweet Char

Cweet Char I hope you are keeping those wheels maintained..so they don't fall off. Well spoken..
Glad to see you have your Thunder...tell Chewy I said woof woof woof wooo.

As great as one has the potentiality or capability to heal, nurture and grow themselves and others they also contain the same power to sicken, deplete and destroy. The battle of heaven and hell is beneath that thin organ known as skin in the temple of each human soul.
Now "The Force" is surrounds us, it binds us and it penetrates us....this was the view in 1977 before the psyche drug revolution of the 1980 began the crystallization of the cultural psyche to genetics and chemical imbalances that lead to the medichlorines..or however you spell those creatures in the blood.

Now if a young man or woman was to see that the Force was only being used for corruption and security enslaving millions would they be wise to just disregard it as not something worth discovering? All religions point at their core to an individual experience or relation with the divine..God, Great Mystery...however you see it...they call us to learn the ways of the force. Religion ideally links us to our past and the power that lies in that past.
Those things that can make us most powerful within our own lives are often hidden before us with obstacles of perception and attitude. To learn the ways of the force you have to have some attraction to overcome the humiliation of all the Han Solos who do well enough with a blaster. The light saber is a weapon of grace and skill it is a civilized weapon. I have trained with both a blaster type weapon and a light saber style weapon and can tell you there is a tremendous different in the conflict approach and humanity. I think the Japenese sword maker Masamune and his apprentice relates another good story....

Anyhow nothing wrong with getting deep or reflective..I consider it just cleaning off the dust to see the surface...

Let go Luke and trust your feelings....Everyone needs to be led into that desert whether chasing a droid or some other distraction to spend their 40 days and find their old man Ben...

WOW...except for Greywolf (only b/c I don't know you brother) these last posts have been from men who I respect and admire greatly....You are good men and I have been blessed to know you. Knowing you has enriched my own growth.
Continuing on my spoke to the center...
Cweet Char

I think in most cases religion is a manmade set of laws giving ultimate consequences for doing the wrong thing. I believe that there is some kind of higher power that creates everything but I don't believe any organized religion is any more or less correct then another. Clear as mud right, in other words whatever works for each individual is all that matters as long as it helps you at least always try to do the right thing. I always used to tell my middle child, Josh, that when he was doing something wrong he knew dam well at the time that it was wrong, he just got a case of the fuggits!! I believe good and evil is in all of us. I know that both are in me. When I was younger I gave into the dark side on more then a few occasions. I've learned to keep my demon in his cage where he needs to be. I have had a couple of key people in my life that are largely responsible for my spirituality and I know I am very fortunate to have had them in my life. I firmly believe that everything that we do in life will come back to us, good or bad. I try to help people that are my friends whenever I can, sometimes I've been occused of taking that too far but I don't think you can take it too far. If you have a friend that needs something, be it a meal, a few bucks or just someone to dump their guts to then it is incumbent on you to do what you can to help them in my opinion. Like someone said in here "Pay it forward" If everyone actually did that everyday the world would drastically change overnight!! Ain't that a bitch?? OK I'm babbling I've had a really chitty day and I'm gettin all reflective and chit, I need a lobotomy!! But I think I'll sleep for a few hours instead.

In case everyone isn't completely convinced that I'm nuts, lemme help ya there. The closest thing I've heard of to a believable religion of sorts is Star Wars "The Force" I think it all is that simple, but WTF do I know?? Nuttin honey!!!

I think it is just the maturation of consciousness.
A baby Joey must struggle for its very life to climb to the opening in the mothers pouch. If it does not make it, it dies. If it does make it a whole world and life open to it. The struggle to find a relation to the divine is waged against inertia and the singing sirens upon the shore who would urge you not to take the journey for it is dangerous and much stands to be lost.
The Hindus if memory serves me have a natural progression where one finds ones place in society makes his or her contributions children, career...etc and then at a certain age leaves it to contemplate the bigger picture. Unlike our culture it isn't about sustaining the physical indefinitely but preparing oneself for the end which is the release or surrender of the physical.

there are many spokes on the divine wheel each leading to a common center. However, if you don't pick one and follow it to that center you will spend your mortal existance hoping around the spokes and never experience the center that keeps the whole wheel spinning. All religions point to an individual experience and unity with the Godhead. Hence why the Judeo-Christian path to heaven is described as narrow.
Saxon, I agree mortality and experience often wake people to a presence of something divine in life and however they choose to recogonize or revere it isn't important but that they do is.
HDragon, it sounds like that presence is strong in your life. Shoemaker who started the whole Near Orbit asteroid search program responsible for detecting asteroids on a collision with earth died only three years afterward in a car crash in Australia. We are all here and we all have some affect that often life is patient with until we accomplish it and sometimes it lies unaccomplished. The choice however is always within the individual where the battle rages.
HDragon I hope you accomplish the beauty and change in the world the Great Mystery has you here for. I know just your stories alone have affected everyone you have touched and provided that experience that Saxon talked about. If we could each be a shining example of the beauty in each life and Mystery's presence in each life what a different world it would be.
Christ died for claiming He and the Father were one and prompted his disciples to Follow Him. I hope what ever spoke you choose in your own life that you find that unity because everything all action and thought is changed from that experience alone.