The agility was REALLY fun to watch. Not enough bullies though. Vegas did well and won some ribbons!! Lisa hasn't had time to get online in the past few days because of the show. Hopefully she'll have a breather next week to give us a full account.

We also went to the conformation show.

The AmStaffs were so fat that some of them were jiggleing during their down and backs. I mean they were fat, not just a little 'padded'. Comparatively little taper, no ribs, completely hidden muscles. We saw 14 dogs, and it was the same for all of them. I'd have to put 10-12 pounds on Riggs to get him to that body type. He weighs 48 pounds now, I've put about 3 pounds since I put up the first pictures of him up.

We walked past a ring of black dogs. Lisa asked me how I thought they looked. I asked them what they were. I honestly didn't know. They were Labs. Short, heavy legs, large barrel bodies... and fat. Now, I grew up with a Lab. She was bred by Guiding Eyes for the Blind. She was put together so that her body would handle working. She wasn't the prettiest dog, but she was functional. There were more than a few who were obviously tired just from the down and backs in the ring. It was sad to watch. Not a single dog there would have had a prayer in an actual working situation. Not a chance. There were Labs in the agility ring who wouldn't have had a chance in the show ring... and those were the ones who had at least a level of funcationality.

No breed will ever go anywhere, in fact they will all go farther and farther into the toilet, if breeders are rewarded for making dogs that have a physical inability to do what the particular breed was created to do.

Before everyone has a hissy fit, I'm sure there are breeds that have not yet been destroyed by the show ring. I don't know every breed. What I personally saw today, in breeds I am familiar with, was disheartening.

Last edited by mnp13 on April 1st, 2006, 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

Michelle,It's sad your post Isn't an April fool..... Because it's so true...Sometime when I'm in the ring I feel,my female is so tiny,and she's not...I mean she's under 50#,and when I look arround the over 50# -19" females,I feel bad...Or when there is only one color...!

Ellie----------------------------------------"Winners aren't born...they're made.And they're made just like anything else...through hard work.That's the price we'll have to pay to achive that goal."

The most troubling thing to me is that it appeared that if someone decided to show a dog that was a correct weight, they would loose. If they showed a dog that looked like it could do what it was supposed to do, it would loose. I really just don't get it.

Our dogs are Pit Bulls (and I'm including AmStaffs). They don't belong in a Pit, but they should have the look of being able to be there. Power, grace, athletic. Most of the dogs today, in the condition I saw them, did not look the part of the athlete. Maybe a retired athlete, but not one who is in his/her prime.

If they are as athletic as they are supposed to be, as I'm sure it will be argued, then why is it mandated that physique be covered?

And just to make a point on the Pit Bull/AmStaff debate, those short legged, barrel bodied Labs are still Labs. Until those are made a separate breed from Labs that actually have functionality you probably can't convince me that Pit Bulls and AmStaffs are different.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

For the most part I was disappointed with the amstaffs. Not because of the fat, that can be removed. More because of the actual structure of a the majority of them. Bad feet, bad rears, bad fronts. Huge, I mean huge, heads and bad movement. I won't go into the handling.

The agility was great! Rally looked like it might be fun.

Vega is a beautiful dog!

I had a good time. Got to see Michelle, Lisa and Jill and Dee. My kennel club sponored the day so that meant I had to work a little but I got a catered lunch out of it!

mnp13 wrote:The most troubling thing to me is that it appeared that if someone decided to show a dog that was a correct weight, they would loose. If they showed a dog that looked like it could do what it was supposed to do, it would loose. I really just don't get it.

Not necessarily! While I agree that MOST of the ASTs are WAY too fat, there are judges who can appreciate a non-fat dog . I find my dogs do best under judges that started with a terrier breed (vs all-rounders coming from another group) because they realize that bigger ISN'T better, that a fat dog couldn't do it's job, and they don't mind a bit of "spunk" in the dogs, or a few scars .

Presley has been getting Group placements (in very limited showing) since he was 10 months old, and I have NEVER put a pound on him to show. He's 18-5/8" (wicketed by AKC rep at the agility trial) and 54 pounds. You can see ribs on him, and for at least half of his group placements he's had visible scars/bite marks on his face (he plays ROUGH with his sisters )

He got a Group 4 this weekend, with my husband handling him (VERY much a newbie to showing!) in stiff competition. The Manchester Terrier he beat was a Westminster and National Specialty winner, the Airedale that took 1st is the#1 Airedale in the US for 2 yrs straight, and won Best in Show both days.

That fad has been going on for years. When I was showing Joe they had me have him at 85 pounds. When I trimmed him down for weight pull he was 68 pounds. Still to large but they like to have them fat for some reason, not all of the showers but a lot of them.

Hartagold AmStaffs wrote:Oh and that's not my hubby , that's Tom Davis, the handler we use when we can afford it . He was handling the Manchester that Presley beat this weekend.

Congrats on the win Lora! I just love Presley!

Yes, I have seen many fat and also NO drive sofa spud APBTs and Amstaffs in the show ring but I have also seen some really great dogs.

The judges perceptions and also the the amount of non standard dogs they see often plays a part in who is chosen IMO.

I have had more than one say to me they can't wait to see Patcheeno when he matures LOL. He will be 7 years old in May. He is 18 1/2 '' and about 57 lbs give or take he is a picky eater at times. Or I here how old is your puppy? Guess my baby boy is just forever young

IMO form should follow function and if the dog can't move or perform he/she has no place in the show ring

Patch O' Pits Pursuit-O-Perfection

Run Hard at the Rainbow Bridge My Angel Sock-M! I Love You Baby Girl! Now that your Mom Starlit is up there too, please help her learn the ropes, love and keep her company until I can see you both again. Starlit I love you!http://i14.tinypic.com/2a8q345.jpg

I just want to point out that I was only commenting on what I saw at this show. I have never been to a conformation show and was disappointed in what I saw at the one I was at. I'm sure there are differences between shows and judges opinions though.

Katrina, the Labs I saw make Sascha look lithe and agile.

Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.

Hey, I gotta say I have admired Hartagold's and Patch's dogs for some time. They are what I WISH we saw up here. Few (and I mean VERY few) of the dogs up here I see are even what I would call show quality. Most of my dogs have been, admittedly, pet quality, but should have had at LEAST as good of a chance in the ring as some of the dogs I see... including champions. I even know of one, owned by someone I know, who became a champion (after extensive showing, for about 5 years). He is BARELY recognizable as an amstaf! He looks like a GIANT staffybull with too big of a head, too short/thick of a neck, weak back, straight shoulders/rear, flat feet, and about as much drive as a bucket. Its a shame.
I just cant wast my money showing Vega against these dogs up here (I prefer to spend it on agility entries). She is so different from them I would be really insulted to have any of those dogs get put up over her. And the politics... dont make me go there!

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
But, Performance indicates what the animal actually is."
- author unknown

Lisa wrote:Hey, I gotta say I have admired Hartagold's and Patch's dogs for some time. They are what I WISH we saw up here. Few (and I mean VERY few) of the dogs up here I see are even what I would call show quality.

Thanks!!

I even know of one, owned by someone I know, who became a champion (after extensive showing, for about 5 years). He is BARELY recognizable as an amstaf! He looks like a GIANT staffybull with too big of a head, too short/thick of a neck, weak back, straight shoulders/rear, flat feet, and about as much drive as a bucket. Its a shame.

LOL I would almost be willing to put money on knowing exactly which dog you are talking about!

I just cant wast my money showing Vega against these dogs up here (I prefer to spend it on agility entries). She is so different from them I would be really insulted to have any of those dogs get put up over her. And the politics... dont make me go there!

Come down to the Columbia Terrier specialty and the weekend shows in Baltimore - I'll have my Zumi entered, she's 17-1/4" and 40ish pounds.... (compared to the bitch of the same height that was entered this past weekend, and weighs 57 pounds ) The B-more shows close this wed the 5th, MB-F. We're entered Fri-Sun in breed, MeMe in OpenB obed on Fri, and Pres & Zumi in Rally on Sat.