Now, maybe I am, maybe I am not. Maybe things are so bad that I reach out, or others reach out hoping to not feel that alone and have someone understand for a moment how bad you feel.

Why is this a bad thing?

Why is there such a negative judgement around it?

Sure there are incidences in which it's extremely negative, or at least the action and consequence is what makes it negative.

But is the act of seeking attention in a world in which we often feel alone, really that bad?

I dunno, I can see where it would be bad. If it badly affected someone else, but then sometimes that goes further into emotional manipulation which is completely different from reaching out and saying "I feel so alone right now, does anybody care".

Like I know people who have pretended to commit suicide, or greatly exaggerated the incident, but I'm more understanding about their reasons for acting out. I guess I understand because I want to know people care.

Sometimes I think about dying, more as a way to imagine if anyone would even shed a tear.

I talk about suicide and have tried to commit it (again, the whole people who talk are less likely to do....well not only is it wrong, but it also pushes those who feel it, to prove they aren't lying), there were times when no ones reaction mattered, and times where someone caring mattered.

I just find it hard to see what is so wrong about the motivation behind these actions that makes many sneer and act superior with "it's just attention seeking".

So fucking what, it's a cold and lonely world more often than not. If someone needs to reach out, is it too much to listen to them really?

Thoughts?

(oh, and no, this is not a suicide thread, this is a discussion on attention seeking as it relates to suicide)

"I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon

RaccoonR

Attention-seeking in general is viewed negatively as it tends to be the product of a narcissistic and manipulative personality. With suicide talk or attempts in particular I would say it's viewed negatively when people think a narcissistic person is trying to manipulate them or others, I'm not sure it is widely viewed negatively if people don't think it's about that but instead view it as a genuine "cry for help", to use the cliche. So I guess I would draw a distinction between attention-seeking for its own sake and attention-seeking because the person has a problem that is in genuine need of attention.

"In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu

allat

I don't think it's a good idea to dismiss suicide talk. I just think it's as important to remember that there are many who don't talk about it and who go through with it.

As for attention-seeking, it's also only a problem when done to the extreme, to the detriment of other people's own issues. Everyone seeks attention to some extent. It's a problem when it's always just a one-way street. That's IMO when it becomes just a form of extreme narcissism, when one wants all the attention for one's self and is unable to give any to others (I don't think you Berbs are like that at all BTW; this is a general observation).

Abood

there's nothing wrong with it. it's perfectly natural for people to crave attention, especially when they're feeling alone. that's precisely why suicide hotlines exist, it's for people with suicidal thoughts to find the attention that they feel they can't find elsewhere. seeking attention is the first step along the path toward suicide. it's the time when someone is having suicidal thoughts but hasn't given up hope, when they still think they might be able to make it if just someone relates to them and hears them out.

people who've given up hope don't care how much attention they get. they're the ones who stand at the top of buildings and everyone tells them to get down but they still jump. because their intent was never to get people to tell them to get down.

some people do just want others to tell them to get down, but there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. it's all part of the process. first they seek attention in hopes of finding it, but if they don't they give up hope entirely and then they're all alone in the dark world of existential isolation, and by then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

the problem (and this might sound harsh) is that it's easy to make depression and suicidal thoughts part of your public identity when you talk about it on and on. it becomes part of your ego, part of your personality, and when that happens it's extremely hard to give up. there's a time to wallow then there's a time to overcome.

BerberElla

Attention-seeking in general is viewed negatively as it tends to be the product of a narcissistic and manipulative personality. With suicide talk or attempts in particular I would say it's viewed negatively when people think a narcissistic person is trying to manipulate them or others, I'm not sure it is widely viewed negatively if people don't think it's about that but instead view it as a genuine "cry for help", to use the cliche. So I guess I would draw a distinction between attention-seeking for its own sake and attention-seeking because the person has a problem that is in genuine need of attention.

How do you identify the difference between a genuine cry for help or manipulation? is it just how often it happens?

I don't think it's a good idea to dismiss suicide talk. I just think it's as important to remember that there are many who don't talk about it and who go through with it.

As for attention-seeking, it's also only a problem when done to the extreme, to the detriment of other people's own issues. Everyone seeks attention to some extent. It's a problem when it's always just a one-way street. That's IMO when it becomes just a form of extreme narcissism, when one wants all the attention for one's self and is unable to give any to others (I don't think you Berbs are like that at all BTW; this is a general observation).

Yea, I have come across that type before. It seemed that everybody elses issues became just a platform for them to turn into something about them. I get tired of feeding that need for attention, however to be fair I do tolerate it for quite some time because I still hear the cry for help.

But you know, despression is a selfish illness so again I get left wondering how much negativity I can assign to it when the self absorbed part is tied up in the cries for help.

I get what you mean though.

Sounds like both you and Q have a criteria for how to discern between the two.

"I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon

BerberElla

there's nothing wrong with it. it's perfectly natural for people to crave attention, especially when they're feeling alone. that's precisely why suicide hotlines exist, it's for people with suicidal thoughts to find the attention that they feel they can't find elsewhere. seeking attention is the first step along the path toward suicide. it's the time when someone is having suicidal thoughts but hasn't given up hope, when they still think they might be able to make it if just someone relates to them and hears them out.

people who've given up hope don't care how much attention they get. they're the ones who stand at the top of buildings and everyone tells them to get down but they still jump. because their intent was never to get people to tell them to get down.

some people do just want others to tell them to get down, but there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. it's all part of the process. first they seek attention in hopes of finding it, but if they don't they give up hope entirely and then they're all alone in the dark world of existential isolation, and by then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Yea, this is how I see it. It's all part and parcel of healing.

Quote

the problem (and this might sound harsh) is that it's easy to make depression and suicidal thoughts part of your public identity when you talk about it on and on. it becomes part of your ego, part of your personality, and when that happens it's extremely hard to give up. there's a time to wallow then there's a time to overcome.

True. I don't think it sounds harsh, just sounds right.

Ok, what about cries of "attention seeking" when we talk about sexually acting out, or dressing a particular way?

Cos you know this happens. "ugh, look at her attention seeking" when girls see another girl dressed a certain way or dancing a certain way.

Its just not that big of a deal. We all do it to some extent, if not in the real world, then online.

"I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon

Maya

What I find bad about that type of attention seeking (threatening suicide) is the manipulation and deception they're partaking in.

Ok I understand they have serious issues to even be contemplating suicide and they do need professional help and I think they should get it, but to play on peoples or friends emotions in such a place as a forum/ chatroom/ facebook/ instant messenger etc., by threatening to do it when they have no real intention of doing anything other than gaining attention in an extreme way is not something I have much sympathy with I'm afraid.

"The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

247read

Suicide is seen as a social stigma, so whoever is pretending to carry it out in order to get attention must already be desperate - have a little sympathy, I know some of you lot have left Islam but doesn't mean we should lose our moral compass too!

This reminded me of something. Here in Norway this well-known (also internationally) author named Stig Sæterbakken commited suicide in age of 46 years a month ago. Its not uncommon that authors/artists commit suicide. What is interesting with him is that his latest novels and writings contained very much "suicide talk". It was like he was telling the world: I am tired of living...

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

did I do the attention seeking in this forum, I'm just feeling paranoid and a little insecure here, puhleaze tell meh no fair telling that only to berb, give me the verdict....

LOL you have a very apt username there paranoid. Sorry for laughing but no you didn't spring to mind when I referred to any forum attention-seeking.

Now that's not to say you haven't indulged in some attention seeking yourself, just that I haven't noticed it. Anyway I only really have a problem with suicide threatening attention seeking so as long as you don't try any of that then you can relax.

"The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

Cato

What I find bad about that type of attention seeking (threatening suicide) is the manipulation and deception they're partaking in.

Ok I understand they have serious issues to even be contemplating suicide and they do need professional help and I think they should get it,but to play on peoples or friends emotions in such a place as a forum/ chatroom/ facebook/ instant messenger etc., by threatening to do it when they have no real intention of doing anything other than gaining attention in an extreme way is not something I have much sympathy with I'm afraid.

Da_Dude

My psychiatrist told me that those who are "attention seeking" should still be taken seriously as they have problems that need to be addressed as much as anyone else, their concerns shouldn't be thrown out simply because they are seen to be attention seeking as normally someone who is "attention seeking" have issues that aren't being looked at, dealt with.

That conversation come about because I was concerned that if I mentioned my problems that he might think I was "attention seeking" and didn't want him to think that, he told me that he didn't think I was like that and if anything he didn't think I mentioned my problems enough.

I have this one come up alot 'cause I self-harm (cutting) and have attempted suicide in the past (more than 4+ years ago), and have had recurring suicidal thoughts throughout my life. The thing is that people don't normally tell everyone how low they are feeling unless they are in a really desperate place, most people who want to commit suicide actually want to keep living but the pain is so great that they consider suicide as an option.

For me I have had a constant battle with self-harm which I've only ever had one year of abstinence from, started when I was 5 years old with self-harm. When people see my scars I've heard comments about how it's attention seeking, but for me, I don't want to hide that aspect of myself any more, my scars I consider to be "battle scars" as it's been a battle of survival for me and I don't care if anyone else thinks otherwise. I try to educate people on it now. It's not attention seeking, it's something that I've only ever done in private and if it makes other people uncomfortable, so what? That's their problem not mine.

And with suicide, some people think that if someone attempts suicide but couldn't/didn't complete it that that means that they weren't serious about it and that it's an attention seeking thing. However the fact remains that most people who do complete suicide have made attempts in the past and have told someone or left clues.

I know for me the first time I attempted, it failed because one of my siblings stumbled onto me and got help, the second time I tried didn't work just made me very sick (no one knew the second one was a suicide attempt as they just thought I'd been trying to get high on diesel), the third time didn't work, just again made me very sick, the forth time didn't work because I couldn't bear the pain and gave up because I was having second thoughts, the fifth time didn't work because my body took over and refused to go like that, the sixth, seventh and eighth times didn't work once again just became very sick each and every time.

Before the attempts I didn't tell anyone although there were clues for anyone wize enough to notice (which no one did) such as me giving away possessions, becoming very calm and ok with everything simply because of the anticipation of "going away" from it all, and talking about death frequently. I never left any notes, although my diaries provided some insight into it, I didn't tell anyone that I was going to do it because (a) I wanted the attempts to suceed, (b) I didn't want anyone to stop me, (c) I didn't feel I had anyone to tell anyway as after my first suicide attempt showed when my mother told me that she should've just let me hang there and die anyway. I'm considered a very high risk for completing it due to my attempts in the past and having C-PTSD, fortunately am not in the suicidal mindset at the moment even though still dealing with flashbacks and nightmares frequently and that makes me pretty depressed.

Hopefully one day people will get over their haughty-taughty narrow mindsets and start to understand that people who commit suicide or self-harm are just people who are in pain, who have emotional/mental pain that needs just as much help as someone would if they were in physical pain. And even if they were just trying to "attention seek" is that so bad? Doesn't that spell out to the world that they must be in a bad place mentally to do that? Instead of blaming them, shouldn't they be helped/supported and instead of blaming/ostracizing the person further actually realize that there is something that is driving these behaviours and try to get the bottom of it & give the person the support they need? For all they know one day they could themselves become another statistic on the front of the suicidal firing line.

BerberElla

Far too often I see people suffer in silence because I know they don't want to be seen as seeking attention. Whenever I feel the suicidal thoughts (which I have had on and off, mostly on, since I was a child) I mostly suffer in silence these days because no one seems to care. Why? because I'm not dead yet. people always care more when you are dead. "I wish I knew" "I wish they had come to me" "I wish I had recognised the signs" but facts are that those people saw attention seeking as being the motivation before the suicide victim went through with it.

Suicide watch websites actually say that it is a myth that the people who talk about it won't do it, and yet the myth remains seen as fact.

Their dismissal of it all as attention seeking can all too often be the motivation to prove them wrong. Like "I'm no coward, watch me"

To be honest that is how i think now. Like one day I will prove to people that I'm not an attention seeking coward and then they'll see.

"I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon

paranoid

I'm afraid of death, after soo many times teasing it, now I'll just think of a way to ease me suffering from death, it came to everyone want or not, hate being one of the statistical figure on suicide, good post dadudes, it's what on my mind

Stardust

I understand that sometimes it can be a bit much to expect others to listen to this, especially if you have one friend you only can confide in that much, to place all that on their shoulders, but sometimes you forget to limit yourself, especially in emotional times and your sole comfort/only person you can talk to is them.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson

I live both sides of the line. I suffer from suicidal thoughts even before the accident and I'm a nurse who have frequently worked in fields where people tend to have higher suicide rates.

Yes the myths continue.

I have said to people I know something worse then death on side of the road it's living with a head injury. And gotten the reply "well then why don't you kill yourself." Say what?!?

Most people don't want to think about the harder things. They have to confort their own weakness if they see the weakness in others. This is not easy it is not the work of those who are superficial and cowardly.

I live both sides of the line. I suffer from suicidal thoughts even before the accident and I'm a nurse who have frequently worked in fields where people tend to have higher suicide rates.

Yes the myths continue.

I have said to people I know something worse then death on side of the road it's living with a head injury. And gotten the reply "well then why don't you kill yourself." Say what?!?

Most people don't want to think about the harder things. They have to confort their own weakness if they see the weakness in others. This is not easy it is not the work of those who are superficial and cowardly.

@bolded: I've had people say similar things to me when I talked about things with them, and they were supposedly my friend...

It's true, it's so much easier not to care, to just switch off your emotions and not having to deal with having empathy/compassion for others. It's quite a selfish behaviour, I mean it's understandable that to a degree it's a self protection mechanism, but some people have it turned up too much.

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson

BerberElla

^^ Same as. I wish I could just switch it off but I still feel, even when I am pretending I don't.

My problem is I care too much. In morocco they would look at me and say "Maskeena, Qalba Haneena" which was something like "poor thing, her heart is too soft"

I wouldn't have suicidal thoughts if I could stop caring. Be easier to live.

"I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon

osmanthus

Easiest way is to hang out with total assholes that nobody could feel sympathy for. Once you have them sorted, start practising with less assholish people. Keep moving up the scale until you're capable of not even giving a shit about the angelic ones.

If you think your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.