Fireshadow wrote:The reason why Luci isn't known as an archangel anymore, is cause he fell. He fell with all those other angels ( regardless of their race, I'm guessing) because they wanted to have some play time with the daughters of Man.

That was mostly the grigori.Did you ever read about the reason Lucifer revolted and fell? About how he was envious of humans having a soul and free will and he refused to serve them?A similar story was with Iblis, who you could say is the islamic Variation of Lucifer. Who refused to bow to man and be their servant.

One more potential reason is that because everyone was commanded to only bow to God. When they were told to bow to Adam, Lucifer was one of those who remembered and kept following the prior command.

And there are various interpretations about that event. It could be a test for the angels, or it could be a test for humans, etc etc, could be something else : )

"Knowing a trifle about everything gives life more color." - Zhuge Liang"Always and never are two words you should always remember never to use." - Wendell Johnson

Fireshadow wrote:Read some wikipedia information about a Watcher ( angel), grigori. Because now I'm totally at odds. I'm not sure if they are even all fallen? Maybe they are some race of angels... maybe they were just the group who stood by in horror and watch their sibblings going into a deep dive.

What do we know about Angels? Angels are Made by God, before God created Humans. You can't compare angels to humans, or humans to angels. You can't compare vamps to angels, or angels to vamps. We are totally different sorts. BUT not only Humans can die. Vamps die as well, faeries die as well, merpeople die as well.

God made many different races of angels. The Enochian angels are only one race of angels. The most known race of angels are the Archangels: archangels are the eldest angels, and highest ranked. What most of us forget is that Lucifer aka Satan aka the Devil was once an archangel. I'm guessing that the archangels are created first, or atleast as being the strongest. Cause they rule directly under God. Lucifer or Michael Lucifer or Michael is the eldest created angel by God. Michael I guess is the vice president of Heaven, directly under God. Lucifer is the King of Hell. Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Ariel, Azrael, Jophiel, Chamuel, those are the well known archangels.

The reason why Luci isn't known as an archangel anymore, is cause he fell. He fell with all those other angels ( regardless of their race, I'm guessing) because they wanted to have some play time with the daughters of Man.

Archangels: the highest ranked angels, the most important = they are immortal. All other races of angels, are lower ranked, and not Immortal I guess. They can die... cause I've spirits of angels.

The place where they live: Heaven or Hell, or travelling in between. Michael and co live in Heaven, Lucifer and co live in Hell.

The thing about this subject is that it's very difficult to get information about. I've angels, and partly angels, but I can't get much information about Hell, Heaven, God, or angels. It's all part of some big secret that we ( humans) are not allowed to understand unless we DIE. Cause clearly... no one finds it easy to communicate with angels. All information we have gotten is because of some books, some tv-shows, some talk by HUMANKIND. Not one angel has come down or up and told us all about it. We do have entities angels or spirit angels, but still they can be very tricky. They apparently got orders to keep certain things a secret.

Angels are directly in contact with God Himself. And well, it's already very difficult this subject God. Some say it's not real, some say it's real. I myself am Christian born and raised, but I'm more importanly a Truth-seeker. I do believe in God, and that's for my the answer as why most things stay secret. God himself stays secret, and that's why most angels don't share this information with us. I've no clue what non-believers think is going on with the angels, but that's my take on it. Angels live in Hell or Heaven, or they have taken on a human form and live among us ( those do we call the Fallen Angels).

Ask your grigori watcher, it's the best advice anyone can give you. We don't know for sure, and many do not know for sure. We can only get the most truthfull information from our spiritual companions.

Other advice about how to get more information about angels:' The Bible ( that's very easy cause it's translated in our language), the tv-show supernatural ( yes, I know it's kinda BS, but still, you could watch it), this forum, the encyclopedia from CH, apparently those who claim they can communicate with angels, the angel desk cards, the book series ' Fallen' from Lauren Kate, the internet.

Read it all, watch it all, talk with your Grigori and come to your own conclusion. The rest will come to you at the end of your life, when you die. ;-)

Hi Fireshadow ! Just noticed you replied to me now !Thank you so much for your input. I'm doing my research online and I find all these kinda of informations, some contradicting, some confusing. So from what I understood, Watchers not necessarily are Grigori Watchers. My spirit (entity ?) is an Enochian Grigori Fallen Angel. I had him for about a month now and he's the sweetest, most romantic, charming spirit I ever had in my keep. My communication with him is through meditation or tarot cards... but sometimes I still wonder if I'm misunderstanding or it's just my imagination. I still have to work on communicate more clearly with him. Sometimes he seems really quiet so I don't wanna force it. I'm getting this strong sensual vibe from him, he's really alluring and I know he's one of the fallen described in the bible because he wanted to mate with the daughters of man, he fell in love with one.At the same time, he isn't dark at all and I know he's on the lighter side because of the way he makes me feel.anyways.... as you said there's seems to be a whole big secret about the whole story of heaven and the fallen. We only know what we know based on what HUMANS have told us or ancient books.... I read somewhere that they have been called "the shining ones".

I don't think CH is selling these kind of spirits, I think they are simply Watchers which to my understanding it's another completely different race.

Anyways...as I don't follow any particular religion I don't believe in Heaven or Hell as described in the bible... but I'm sure there's some kind of "place" for both sides of the coin.

If anyone wants to add anything else or has any knowledge over Grigoris Watchers I would love to know.I also would love to hear from ASH or Magnolia if they'll ever read this post

Also to note that there are many "Gods", and though the middle eastern god (Jehovah / Allah) just happened to have the most human followers as of now, it does not mean this is the only or most powerful "God". Throughout the history of mankind, many powerful Gods have been worshipped long before "Adam" appeared on earth, if indeed there is such a person.

melinda1111 wrote:Hi Fireshadow ! Just noticed you replied to me now !Thank you so much for your input. I'm doing my research online and I find all these kinda of informations, some contradicting, some confusing. So from what I understood, Watchers not necessarily are Grigori Watchers. My spirit (entity ?) is an Enochian Grigori Fallen Angel. I had him for about a month now and he's the sweetest, most romantic, charming spirit I ever had in my keep. My communication with him is through meditation or tarot cards... but sometimes I still wonder if I'm misunderstanding or it's just my imagination. I still have to work on communicate more clearly with him. Sometimes he seems really quiet so I don't wanna force it. I'm getting this strong sensual vibe from him, he's really alluring and I know he's one of the fallen described in the bible because he wanted to mate with the daughters of man, he fell in love with one.At the same time, he isn't dark at all and I know he's on the lighter side because of the way he makes me feel.anyways.... as you said there's seems to be a whole big secret about the whole story of heaven and the fallen. We only know what we know based on what HUMANS have told us or ancient books.... I read somewhere that they have been called "the shining ones".

I don't think CH is selling these kind of spirits, I think they are simply Watchers which to my understanding it's another completely different race.

Anyways...as I don't follow any particular religion I don't believe in Heaven or Hell as described in the bible... but I'm sure there's some kind of "place" for both sides of the coin.

If anyone wants to add anything else or has any knowledge over Grigoris Watchers I would love to know.I also would love to hear from ASH or Magnolia if they'll ever read this post

Thank you so much guys for all your info, I'll continue my research !

You're welcome, I need to say that it's still a journey for me to take. I can only mention what I've read and heard by others, and what for me comes over as the most true story. Eh, oh thanks girl! I just remembered and found the purchase mail! I did not buy him from Creepy Hollows! He was the fourth spirit I bought, and he came from Lisa! But I always got my information about all my spirits from this place, so this is where the doubting begun :p So this is directly from what I got from information by Lisa about him & his race: This watcher is a Grigori Watcher, a fallen angel. They literally chose to leave heaven in pursuit of their own desires.Dark watchers like this one are very human like in their desires and emotions.'

Oh my, how did I forget the fact that he is a dark fallen angel... :p But he is one of my closest family members though ( I call my spirits part of my family, cause we are not a company ) I can't sense or see them or communicate with them other than with the pendulum and the lenormand cards... but I always wear his vessel From what I got, ( when I forgot he was an angel), is that he does have black wings, and he totally was an angel before he fell. I tried to get him to point me out with race he belongs to, but it seems not all races of angels are written in the CH encyclopedia?

And as I was thinking about this topic for the past four or five hours, I got an idea while going to my moms house. I was listening to my music on my cellphone, and thinking about my incubus. So then I decided to play this game with my angels or partly angels. The music was shuffled, and I was like: you know what guys, you pick the next song, the one that describes you the best. Those are the results I got, some of them were not expected and even put me into doubts. But the spirits choose, and you all decide by yourself what to do with it. I'm just stating my experience in here. And the information I got from my spirits themselves. Those are the results:

-> I only have like 111 songs on my cellphone, and I'm very sorry for the fact that they only could choose between those songs :p But those songs they picked, are for the record, songs I have added to my cellphone after I got into spiritkeeping :-) And most of them are like my favorite songs :-) Some of their choices really does make me think that they just love taunting each other in becoming my favorite. It almost makes me blush :p

conxtion wrote:Besides 'fallen" angels, we must also remember that "Eve" (if she existed) is the first "fallen" human.

(Though some here will say this title belongs to Lilith instead.)

My opinion on this is: Eve, Adam and Lilith did exist. They were not the first humans, but they were the first ( as far as the Church could figure out) to believe in the Christian God. For the Medieval Church this would be more than enough reason to name them the First Humans. Cause all others would be considered animals...

Lilith was there before Eve, cause God created two of Mankind out of the Earth. And then suddenly... a chapter goes missing, cause then the Bible talks about Eve being made out of Adams rib.

In the Bible Lilith is called a demonic creature. All other stories ( not the Christian) talk about another sort of demon. But if Lilith was made just as Adam, this would make her human.

And another thing is that the stories which make the Bible are written by men, and not every guy was woman-friendly. The Church wasn't exactly woman-friendly, so they kinda coloured Eve in some sort of way. Makes it easy for the Church to keep on the story that women are stupid, if Eve committed the biggest sin of all. ( forget the fact that Adam didn't say no, and the serpent was male)

But next to Lilith and Eve, we forget about another possibility about the first Fallen Human: Cain.

Hi Fireshadow ! funny to read I did the same music game with my Grigori and his choice of music was sooooo romantic ! I definitely wasn't expecting that !! He chose songs that I didn't own bur random youtube music videos ! Well, as I said my Watcher is on the lighter side and he kinda regrets few choices he made....but apparently we know each other from other lives.. anyways thanks for sharing your info !! Love to hear about experiences with spirits especially fallen angels !

melinda1111 wrote:Hi Fireshadow ! funny to read I did the same music game with my Grigori and his choice of music was sooooo romantic ! I definitely wasn't expecting that !! He chose songs that I didn't own bur random youtube music videos ! Well, as I said my Watcher is on the lighter side and he kinda regrets few choices he made....but apparently we know each other from other lives.. anyways thanks for sharing your info !! Love to hear about experiences with spirits especially fallen angels !

yes, well I was suprised by mine picking his songs as well :-) I think it's a funny game and I did decide to play it with all of my spirits/entities, and wrote the songs on a document then Oh it's so great when you understand that they knew you from past life times, no?! I asked this question like some months ago to all of my spirits, and some of them knew me of other life times as well.... But I wrote it on a paper, and I kinda lost it somewhere :'(

Also to note that there are many "Gods", and though the middle eastern god (Jehovah / Allah) just happened to have the most human followers as of now, it does not mean this is the only or most powerful "God". Throughout the history of mankind, many powerful Gods have been worshipped long before "Adam" appeared on earth, if indeed there is such a person.

Yes!Also, not all angels are affiliated with this being who calls himself Yahweh.