In a new but weathered Phil-spec'ed Kenyan hive, I installed a package Sunday and suspended the queen cage dead center. The poor girl had no attendants and was still coated with the powdered sugar I'd doused the fresh package with Saturday. Yesterday/Tuesday I peeked into the side and noticed the bees' center of mass was 2 bars over from the centered cage. This seemed suspicious, so I removed the now empty bee-covered cage. I didn't yet look for a dead queen on the bottom. A queen "includer" is outside the entrance.

Lack of patience and suspicion led me to gently check if their initial comb was straight. I was shocked to find no comb at all, not a drop. The bees are unsettled but not defensive, normal at this state I believe. They drank 2 cups of syrup Monday and Tuesday. Is it possible things are going okay with no comb after 2 days, or is it time to urgently seek a new queen?

I'm not personally experienced with packages but that doesn't sound good. Were there attendants in the queen cage before you dusted them and did she appear alive at that time? Is she marked? I'm guessing that would make her pretty easy to find on the hive floor rather than disturb the cluster too much again.

I would give them another couple of days and then get a new queen if they have still not made any progress.

Screened bottom. No attendants were in the cage with her. I couldn't tell if she was marked because she was still covered in the previous day's powdered sugar dusting. Gently detecting potential early cross-combing was my concern, and I didn't think to check for a dead queen till afterward.

When you pulled the queen cage out of the package was there a good cluster of bees balled around it? How many bars have you given them? How difficult would it be to close the bottom of the hive up? I've had a problem here in central Texas with screened bottoms. After I closed up the bottoms the absconding issue went away. Like Barbara said I would watch them a couple of more days then make a decision. Good luck.

was she in a cage sealed with candy??
was that still intact or chewed through?
if open, then I would say she's in there somewhere, are your top bars coated with wax?
I've had bee swarms take around a week before any comb was built, I'd give it a few more days, are they flying in/out

Cage was cork only. I stuck most of a mini-marshmallow in the hole at install. The fact that you've had swarms take that long before starting comb is great news to me. My limited experience always showed comb commencing almost right away. They are flying in and out a bit but mostly just milling, along with rushing back and forth to the feeder thru the cork hole in the follower.

Based on all the good info, I think I'll hold tight till Thursday eve and subtly check for a dead queen then. Thanks to all!

if bugs has offered some help, why not see if he has a piece of drawn comb he could give you, it could be fixed to a top bar in a manner of ways, then rather than disturbing the bees looking for a queen, you can just check the comb for eggs?
also having comb in the hive, may start them building more

I would certainly wait till Monday but the pollen is a very good sign. Watch for an increase in that ratio over the weekend. They won't collect pollen without having comb and brood, so unless those bees came with that pollen in the package and by now it would almost certainly have been lost, I would say you are in business.

Barbara is correct. Pollen going in means they expect babies soon. Good news.

I'm curious, are you in the city of El Dorado Hills? Or up in the foothills? I haven't been past Folsom for a while, but my impression is the foothills are pretty much past the prime nectar flow. Some of the folks in the club up in your area are already talking about supplementing with pollen patties. If you're in the city then you'll have privets, Tallow, Lindens, and other landscaping plants, but not much up in the hills.

You're welcome to come visit SABA each month and I think the El Dorado club meets in Placerville. Lots of good sources of info.

An established colony that becomes queenless may still bring pollen in but a new colony that is just setting up house will not bring pollen in until there is somewhere to store it and it is needed for brood.
I have hived many swarms and although some of the bees within the swarm may have full pollen baskets as they start swarming, they don't collect pollen until they have built comb and have brood to feed.

I respectfully reject your suggestion that bees collect pollen just for the sake of it or because "it's what bees do"....my experience has been that they collect it in response to a need. This is often seen with a cast swarm that takes about 10 days from hiving to start bringing pollen in because it takes time for the queen to be mated and start laying, whereas a prime swarm often brings pollen in on day 1 or 2.... basically as soon as they have comb for the queen to lay into.

my first swarm that I caught,and housed in a top bar nuc were queenless from the start, they built comb ands were bringing in pollen, giving me the impression that everything was ok, maybe the bees down here are different,lol,

I'm in Serrano, worst and best case. CC&Rs, association fees, likely pesticide bathing, and Mello-Roos taxes contribute to the worsts. Random landscaping flows year-round contribute to bests. Maybe I'll make it to one of those Pville meetings. Thanks for the invitation!

This morning the girls are marching in with pollen, probably 1 in 2. I'm now very optimistic. I think closing the base temporarily was key, turning their behavior. Packages are just nutty aren't they? Now, the mystery of how they started combing awaits. I'm sensing something weird is underway in there...

Are you absolutely sure....Eggs are very, very difficult to see in pristine white comb.
If there really are no eggs/larvae then something probably is wrong but I'm pretty confident you will see capped brood if you check again in another week or so, especially now that they have ramped up pollen intake.
I say this because I have been in the same situation where I really could not see eggs in my first TBH (framed hives are easier because you can tilt the frames until you get the angle right for sunlight to fall into the bottom of the comb) Like you I was convinced there were no eggs but a week later I had a nice patch of newly sealed brood and larvae surrounding it

Give them some peace and quiet and just monitor activity at the entrance. If they are coming and going with purpose and continue to take pollen in, then I would not worry.

I just went through the same thing. I checked on a split two weeks ago. I knew they raised a new queen and she should have been laying, but I couldn't see a thing. But there was pollen going in so I closed them up and waited. A week later they had sealed brood.

Bbounds, I don't think I would hesitate to supplement their feeding this year. I don't mean replace natural food, but we're really going to need to take of the girls that will raise the winter bees. Some of the beeks up in your area started feeding in June last year and said they wished they had started earlier. It also seemed like the drones were gone in May last year.

This fourth year of exceptional drought is going to be an experiment for all of us.

Wow. Just checked, and eggs just started, 12 days in, or maybe a day or three ago. Yea! But no larva. Surprising. I really really...want to pull off my homemade queen "includer," but a package absconded on me a few years ago. Can't talk myself into it. Lots of comb, just a little crossed-over in the s-curve fashion. They gulped about 10 cups of 1:1 syrup already, and I was planning to stop but won't yet. I love this forum. Thanks to all of you for coaching![/img]

My concern with your scenario is that perhaps you had a virgin queen that was related to the workers loose in the package as well as the caged queen which of course would be unrelated. I have seen a video of how these packages are produced and there doesn't seem to be any attention to detail as regards what the status quo of the donor colonies is.

That might explain why she had no attendants in the cage and why they clustered away from the cage in the hive, instead of around it and were so slow to get started, with no brood for so long.
My worry would be whether a virgin queen could make it through your "queen includer" and back for a mating flight and if not then she will be drone laying. That's if my suspicion is accurate of course. The virgin queens I have seen have not been significantly bigger than workers so hopefully if this is the case, she has been successfully mated. I guess we will never know, unless you turn out to have a drone layer and I seriously hope that is not the case.

Good to hear that things are looking more promising now though.
Keep us posted

I had the same concern and am still remotely suspicious. I took pics, and all 40-50 cells I can study include a single egg more or less centered. That adds much hope that it just took the gang extra long to feel comfortable. There's lots of comb, honey, and pollen, and they're mostly working in an orderly fashion. They are still a bit squirrelly, however, so I will watch them closely till capped worker brood is produced. Thanks so much for your coaching!

Delighted to hear that things are looking good now after that early hiccup.
I guess we will never know the reason why but hopefully we can at least use this experience to reassure the next person who is worried when their package bees don't perform as they expect.

Conserving wild bees

Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.

Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.