In January 2017 I took my early retirement from the NHS, and spent the lump sum part of my pension on a house in rural France with a half acre garden complete with well. Property values are about a quarter of those in Britain and so with a modest amount of money we have got a fairly large house away from major cities and with enough land to be self sufficient - at least in veggies and water. I don't know whether you plan to relocate within the UK or to a less populous and urbanised country, but good luck with it. Me and Madame DeGaulle have never looked back.

I know this might be a really contentious statement ... but I'd be very doubtful about relocating for self sufficiency in troubled times if the location was far away from my own ethnicity, *whatever* my ethnicity was I don't mean it as a gibe at any *one* ethnicity - its just that whenever really bad times happen, anyone perceived as an outsider by the locals will probably be ostracised/ attacked/ demonised. The way of the world, unfortunately It can happen even within ethnicities if religion is involved. Any religion.

I know this might be a really contentious statement ... but I'd be very doubtful about relocating for self sufficiency in troubled times if the location was far away from my own ethnicity, *whatever* my ethnicity was I don't mean it as a gibe at any *one* ethnicity - its just that whenever really bad times happen, anyone perceived as an outsider by the locals will probably be ostracised/ attacked/ demonised. The way of the world, unfortunately It can happen even within ethnicities if religion is involved. Any religion.

Ultimately its anyone who is different. There were a lot of slightly batty old women burned in the past for um, being witches. Yeah.
People do like to have a 'them and us' and will make up all sorts of reasons to justify it.

Ultimately its anyone who is different. There were a lot of slightly batty old women burned in the past for um, being witches. Yeah.
People do like to have a 'them and us' and will make up all sorts of reasons to justify it.

Oh, you're right! Spot on - its exactly the same dynamic. I didn't think of it at the time because that particular "otherness" isn't usually a matter of choice (apart from having a cat )

I know this might be a really contentious statement ... but I'd be very doubtful about relocating for self sufficiency in troubled times if the location was far away from my own ethnicity, *whatever* my ethnicity was I don't mean it as a gibe at any *one* ethnicity - its just that whenever really bad times happen, anyone perceived as an outsider by the locals will probably be ostracised/ attacked/ demonised. The way of the world, unfortunately It can happen even within ethnicities if religion is involved. Any religion.

Yup its Tribe mentality, as much as we've evolved from cave dwelling neanderthals this is one part of the collective human conscience that has remained.

it's displayed all throughout the animal kingdom, it has served people well all through history in though times (not so great for those on the receiving end)

The element of "group think" allows the individual to disassociate themselves from any personal responsibility or liability for the actions of the group while being part of the group ..... a bit of mental gymnastics is required. just look at protests that turn into riots, all it takes it one bad apple to cross the line and surprisingly people will follow and it escalates from there.

but yeah being an outsider for any reason not just ethnicity can be hazardous to your health.

you dont even need SHTF to see it in action, there are multiple fascists of everyday life where this happens from political affiliations to opinions on contentious subjects like religion, race and gender where people just dont voice their personal opinion in public for fear of not conforming with the social norm du jour and being ostracized, ridiculed or losing their job.

I know this might be a really contentious statement ... but I'd be very doubtful about relocating for self sufficiency in troubled times if the location was far away from my own ethnicity, *whatever* my ethnicity was I don't mean it as a gibe at any *one* ethnicity - its just that whenever really bad times happen, anyone perceived as an outsider by the locals will probably be ostracised/ attacked/ demonised. The way of the world, unfortunately It can happen even within ethnicities if religion is involved. Any religion.

Spot on, it was one of the main reasons we moved back from Eastern Europe / Balkans.

Lovely people and country and we had a great lifestyle, but it was clear that if the SHTF we would have been seen as outsiders despite our ten years there.

Perhaps it had something to do with the EU / Nato perceived negative impact during the homeland war as well but even so.

Yup its Tribe mentality, as much as we've evolved from cave dwelling neanderthals this is one part of the collective human conscience that has remained.

it's displayed all throughout the animal kingdom, it has served people well all through history in though times (not so great for those on the receiving end)

The element of "group think" allows the individual to disassociate themselves from any personal responsibility or liability for the actions of the group while being part of the group ..... a bit of mental gymnastics is required. just look at protests that turn into riots, all it takes it one bad apple to cross the line and surprisingly people will follow and it escalates from there.

but yeah being an outsider for any reason not just ethnicity can be hazardous to your health.

you dont even need SHTF to see it in action, there are multiple fascists of everyday life where this happens from political affiliations to opinions on contentious subjects like religion, race and gender where people just dont voice their personal opinion in public for fear of not conforming with the social norm du jour and being ostracized, ridiculed or losing their job.

It both scares the crap out of me and saddens me at the same time that we're still that pace or two from evolving past the 'tribal thing'. As you say, its dragged the human race out of the swamps and into caves, out of caves and into houses but I only see it holding us back as a race now. The things we fall out over might change, God(s) not your thing ??? Never mind, there is Nationalism or some other ideology to get yourself worked up over and find fault in 'their' logic. Don't get me wrong, I've still got that caveman bit at the back of my head too, I'm not immune from it all.

Going right 'out there, I've said to folk before when having these philosophical discussions that if there were aliens out there in some evolved 'space civilisation' they would have us marked down as barbarians and a planet not fit to join their gang.

It both scares the crap out of me and saddens me at the same time that we're still that pace or two from evolving past the 'tribal thing'. As you say, its dragged the human race out of the swamps and into caves, out of caves and into houses but I only see it holding us back as a race now. The things we fall out over might change, God(s) not your thing ??? Never mind, there is Nationalism or some other ideology to get yourself worked up over and find fault in 'their' logic. Don't get me wrong, I've still got that caveman bit at the back of my head too, I'm not immune from it all.

Going right 'out there, I've said to folk before when having these philosophical discussions that if there were aliens out there in some evolved 'space civilisation' they would have us marked down as barbarians and a planet not fit to join their gang.

I couldn't agree more, looking objectively at the human race (as a whole) we are capable of some awesome feats of compassion, bravery and honor but also some of the most disgusting vile things imaginable.

We cant even co-exist with our own planet, any advanced alien would probably see us as a semi intelligent parasite ....... but in the grand scheme of it all we haven't been around very long, we haven't evolved as much as we think we have.

I think we've all retained those baser instincts to some degree within us all, especially when survival mode kicks in.

Even if you look back at the Roman empire, we've elevated our standard of living in comparison but we still have the same BS political arguments , nonsensical wars and brain dead fanfare to occupy the minds of the populous ....... the world we live in has advanced (some for the better some for the worse) but we as humans haven't evolved any further imo, we've learned new things and developed new ideas and created technology to help us but we're still basically the same animal we were 5,000 years ago.

Evolution is an annoyingly slow process, not something that would even be vaguely evident within a typical human lifespan, If we haven't wiped each other out and are still around in 500,000 years humans will probably be very different than you and me.