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[The Hobbit] The March of the Edits

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Every fan of the Lord of the Rings should at least flip through Return of the Shadow, the sixth volume of The History of Middle Earth, where Christopher documents at excruciating length the writing of The Fellowship of the Ring. The uneven nature of the book -- especially compared to The Two Towers and The Return of the King -- is much more evident but also much more explicable when you realize that Tolkien got his merry band of hobbits (led by the terribly named "Bingo Baggins") all the way to Rivendell before he decided that the magic ring Bilbo found was Sauron's ring, and that this wasn't going to be a happy little bedtime story for his children the way that The Hobbit was.

Oh, wow. I never got that far because, frankly, I was exhausted just from reading the three or four The History of Middle Earth books that I did read. Especially since eventually the unfinished, draft versions of The Silmarillion started bleeding into my memories of the published version, and that gets REALLY confusing REALLY quickly (the Noldor are called "Gnomes"! Beren and Luthien fight Tevildo, the giant, monstrous king of cats! Numenor was literally Atlantis and Arda is literally Earth! A Middle-Ages Englishman named Ælfwine visited Tol Eressëa!).

Man, so how was Fellowship of the Ring supposed to even work if the ring wasn't Sauron's ring? Like, what was the endgame? Was it just "Hobbits bring a dinky magical ring to Rivendell, eat pie, go home"?

Every fan of the Lord of the Rings should at least flip through Return of the Shadow, the sixth volume of The History of Middle Earth, where Christopher documents at excruciating length the writing of The Fellowship of the Ring. The uneven nature of the book -- especially compared to The Two Towers and The Return of the King -- is much more evident but also much more explicable when you realize that Tolkien got his merry band of hobbits (led by the terribly named "Bingo Baggins") all the way to Rivendell before he decided that the magic ring Bilbo found was Sauron's ring, and that this wasn't going to be a happy little bedtime story for his children the way that The Hobbit was.

Oh, wow. I never got that far because, frankly, I was exhausted just from reading the three or four The History of Middle Earth books that I did read. Especially since eventually the unfinished, draft versions of The Silmarillion started bleeding into my memories of the published version, and that gets REALLY confusing REALLY quickly (the Noldor are called "Gnomes"! Beren and Luthien fight Tevildo, the giant, monstrous king of cats! Numenor was literally Atlantis and Arda is literally Earth! A Middle-Ages Englishman named Ælfwine visited Tol Eressëa!).

Man, so how was Fellowship of the Ring supposed to even work if the ring wasn't Sauron's ring? Like, what was the endgame? Was it just "Hobbits bring a dinky magical ring to Rivendell, eat pie, go home"?

Unwin & Allen asked Tolkien to write a sequel to The Hobbit. So that's what he started doing.

It's been a long time since I looked at The Return of the Shadow, but IIRC Tolkien began with Bilbo's birthday and going away party, and then he wrote a bunch of little episodes of Bilbo's nephew "Bingo" getting lost in the Old Forest, meeting Tom Bombadil, finding the statues of Bilbo's trolls, and so on, all the way until they got to Rivendell. There was no "Shadow of the Past" chapter involving Gandalf revealing what he knew about Gollum and the Ring, not even any hints that the ring was a big deal at all. But there was a mysterious hobbit named "Trotter" that they meet in the inn at Bree, as well as a Black Rider who chases them out of the Shire. But there's no hint that this Black Rider is anything more than just a faceless antagonist. It's just a bunch of unconnected vignettes, and it's crystal clear that Tolkien had no overarching plot in mind beyond "it's got to have hobbits in it."

I'll admit that I'm a little intimidated by The History of Middle-Earth, based on how difficult and, frankly, bland of a read the first couple of books were. At the same time, I read them over a decade ago, when I was in high school. My tastes and tolerances have certainly changed. Maybe I'd do better with them now.

Hedgethorn, does knowing how shaky a framework LotR was built on dispel some of its magic for you, or does it actually make things more interesting?

For those that have studied more in depth on Tolkien, I've always heard that he would basically write, then if he came across an insurmountable part, scrap it and write everything over from the beginning, eventually leading to him just plowing through regardless which is how we got things like Gandalf's death and resurrection, why there's a tonal shift in Fellowship, etc. Any truth to this?

For those that have studied more in depth on Tolkien, I've always heard that he would basically write, then if he came across an insurmountable part, scrap it and write everything over from the beginning, eventually leading to him just plowing through regardless which is how we got things like Gandalf's death and resurrection, why there's a tonal shift in Fellowship, etc. Any truth to this?

Yes, he would write a draft up to a certain point. In review of said draft if he didn't like something he'd scrap it and start again from scratch. Chris also points this out in Children of Hurin (the tragedy of Turin Tarembar), thus why I pointed it out. From what I have book-wise I think I've read 3 different accounts of the tale.

"Hey, little dudes, yeah, I know this ring has no effect on me, but I really really can't help you because I'm, like, forgetful and stuff and might lose it and then where would we be? So long now, don't get eaten by ghosts or trees."

Actually Tom didn't refuse to take the ring, Gandalf and Elrond ruled that he would probably forget about it and thus was not reliable.

They also mention that course of action was pretty much just delaying the inevitable anyway. Tom's little patch of forest might be the last bit of the world to be conquered but when all else had fallen he would most likely be overrun as well.

Wait, there are at least 12 volumes of The History of Middle Earth accroding to Amazon? That's a lot of writing post-deceasing.

It's all pre-deceasing. The History of Middle-Earth books are shitloads of JRRT's notes and drafts that have been collected, edited, and feature a lot of commentary added by Christopher Tolkien.

You have to remember that JRRT had been writing at least sketches of his Middle-Earth stories since being in the trenches of WWI back in 1916. He died in 1973, that's 57 years of writing. He concentrated on his legendarium so much that it reduced his academic output to a mere fraction of what his contemporaries at Oxford did, so there is whole lot there.

Well, sure, but we know him for the same reason. It ain't the academic stuff he worked on that we remember.

You are right, I am just being smug

Also, Harold Bloom's criticism (another Oxford professor) is one of the few academics whose work I see read outside of the academic field. There's nothing wrong with this though; these works are created for vastly different audiences, and much of the intellectual effort they put forth in their academic writing can pay dividends in their popular prose. So, it's not like it's wasted or anything (not that you are saying it is), but that different audiences will be more receptive to one over the other.

(Tom and Goldberry are the only characters that Tolkien left the readers with no real idea of "what" they are. Their backgrounds/origins are a complete mystery.)

I always assumed they were basically Father and Mother nature, or some such equivalent.

It's actually not a complete mystery. There are a lot of little clues and hints that point to Tom Bombadil being the physical manifestation of Aulë, The Smith. He makes mention a couple of times of him being the earth, and the earth being him. Since there was no concept of "mother and father nature" in Middle Earth, those conceptual mantles are worn by the Vala, and to a lesser extent the Maiar. Aulë is certainly the closest thing to a "nature god" you're going to find, since JRRT was very clear that only Eru Ilúvatar was an actual deity. The Vala and Maiar were much more like arch-angels and angels, respectively.

It would also be a strong reason that he couldn't take the ring. The Vala were expressly forbidden from medling with the affairs of mortals directly. Eru Ilúvatar passed down that decree after the binding of Melkor. Only through their Maiar were the Vala allowed to interfere. Since Gandalf was a Maiar, and Elrond was aware of this and in tune with the Ainur himself, they would have needed a reason Tom Bombadil couldn't keep the ring when asked.

It's all complete speculation of course, because as Kruite says, JRRT himself was never specific...but it's the best thesis I've seen on the subject so far.

I liked Tom, because the barrow adventure showed how ancient he really was; him finding the brooch and mourning a princess who died millenia ago before giving it to Goldberry in her memory. I also liked that he was an example of powerful beings that didn't have an interest in the war one way or the other. Shelob herself as far as I can recall was older than Sauron, and made the perfect watchdog to Mordor. I'm intrigued by lost histories and origins in real life and in literature. Back on topic, I'm really looking forward to the Hobbit, I thought the trilogy was fantastic.

We weren't talking about LOTR, which has already been made into films and other adaptations several times, we were talking about all the extra shit like The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin and such, which was released by Chris Tolkien from his father's uncompleted manuscripts.

Maybe learn what you're talking about before you start strutting and honking about public domain.

Christopher Tolkien also owns LOTR and The Hobbit and the only reason we got adaptations of those is because JRRT sold the rights to those before he died when he needed some cash. His son has always said he wished he could take it back.

Also, the Silmarillion officially credits JRRT as the author and was mostly just compiled by his son. (although he did fill in some gaps)

JRRT has been dead for 40 years. He owns nothing. Christopher Tolkien did not write the Lord of the Rings. I don't think you get this.

Why should his estate still own it? This is the same bullshit argument Disney makes for why nothing ever enters the public domain anymore.

There is nothing "entitled" about suggesting that the work of a guy who's been fucking dead for 4 decades should be public domain and you are a silly goose for trotting that bullshit argument out.

Why (out of curiosity) wouldn't it go to him? (no being snarky, but seriously want to know)

If Tolkien had built him a real nice house or something, it wouldn't belong to the public in 40 years would it?

Because IP is not property. It's intellectual property. These are completely different.

Intellectual Property, at it's most basic, is exclusive rights to the distribution/publication/etc of a specific intangible thing for a set period of time based on specific factors. It is limited, subject to many conditions and often only temporary. And it is also distinct from actual property laws.

In this specific case, since it's a book, you are talking about copyright which is explicitly limited in duration. Of course, Disney uses a literal fleet of lawyers to extend that duration over and over and over again because, you know, fuck the public.

It's also important to understand that copyright is expressly supposed to be limited. It only exists to encourage the production of more art and such by allowing artists to derive profits from intangible creations. This right is only temporary because it is balanced against the public good in distributing art to the public. This is the foundation of copyright law.

I liked Tom, because the barrow adventure showed how ancient he really was; him finding the brooch and mourning a princess who died millenia ago before giving it to Goldberry in her memory. I also liked that he was an example of powerful beings that didn't have an interest in the war one way or the other. Shelob herself as far as I can recall was older than Sauron, and made the perfect watchdog to Mordor. I'm intrigued by lost histories and origins in real life and in literature. Back on topic, I'm really looking forward to the Hobbit, I thought the trilogy was fantastic.

Shelob, the last daughter of Ungoliant. Basically makes her older than Galadriel (I believe), who happens to be the oldest elf in all Middle earth. (wait...Cirdan MAY be older...but that's it)

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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular

I liked Tom, because the barrow adventure showed how ancient he really was; him finding the brooch and mourning a princess who died millenia ago before giving it to Goldberry in her memory. I also liked that he was an example of powerful beings that didn't have an interest in the war one way or the other. Shelob herself as far as I can recall was older than Sauron, and made the perfect watchdog to Mordor. I'm intrigued by lost histories and origins in real life and in literature. Back on topic, I'm really looking forward to the Hobbit, I thought the trilogy was fantastic.

Shelob, the last daughter of Ungoliant. Basically makes her older than Galadriel (I believe), who happens to be the oldest elf in all Middle earth. (wait...Cirdan MAY be older...but that's it)

Yeah, Shelob is crazy old.

I haven't read the Silmarillion in a few years, I should track down a copy.

My eyes glaze over when I try to make sense of the first age and the creation mythologies. I spent most of my reading time on the Major war of the Second age (Fall of Gondolin), Children of Hurin, the rise and fall of Numenor, Beren and Luthien. Time to track down the book myself and a copy of the History and the Lost Tales. I must be able to out nerd Colbert!

Actually there IS a book that contains all of the angel and fall of Lucifer mythology that was ultimately rejected from canon, but I cannot remember for the life of me what the book was called.
Paradise Lost is awesome though

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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular