Comments on: Tuesday: While We Were Yet Sinners . . .http://ssnet.org/blog/while-we-were-yet-sinners/
Seventh-day Adventist Bible Study DiscussionSun, 02 Aug 2015 15:04:31 +0000hourly1By: Inge Andersonhttp://ssnet.org/blog/while-we-were-yet-sinners/comment-page-1/#comment-47589
Sat, 23 Mar 2013 22:42:02 +0000http://ssnet.org/?p=27468#comment-47589In our discussion today, I was reminded again of Christ's provision for us while we were yet sinners and certainly before we asked for forgiveness.

On the cross, He fully paid the penalty of the sins of the world. In some translations, the Lord's prayer says, "and forgive us our debt as we forgive our debtors" (Matt 6:12 NKJV). Thus sins are seen as a "debt" owed to the one who has been sinned against.

In the same way, when we sin against God, we run up a "debt" with God. Christ paid this debt for the whole world, thus wiping it out. Is this not what forgiveness is -- to wipe out a debt so that the debtor no longer has to pay?

As someone suggested, forgiveness and pardon essentially mean the same thing. Forgiveness or pardon has to be accepted to become effective. US History contains a pertinent illustration in the case of George Wilson who refused a presidential pardon and was subsequently hanged. A Wikipedia article also makes the point that the acceptance of a pardon is an admission of guilt.

Thus, in order for the forgiveness of our sins to be applicable in our own lives, we must admit we are guilty (confess our sins) and accept the pardon that God offers. This results in a restored relationship.

In the same manner, we may forgive those who have sinned against us, without their asking to be forgiven, but for the relationship to be restored requires admission of guilt and the acceptance of forgiveness. (The exception are instances in which we are offended by things we should probably learn to take in our stride. See 1 Cor. 13:5)

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]]>By: John Gilmorehttp://ssnet.org/blog/while-we-were-yet-sinners/comment-page-1/#comment-47581
Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:10:02 +0000http://ssnet.org/?p=27468#comment-47581Regarding “he forgave us before we even asked for forgiveness,” in Exodus 34: 6-7, the Lord described Himself to Moses, "The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and the fourth generation." Notice the balance between the first half (expressing mercy) and the last (expressing justice). His approach to us is similarly expressed in Selected Messages, volume 1, page 260, “The reconciliation of mercy and justice did not involve any compromise with sin, or ignore any claim of justice; but by giving to each divine attribute its ordained place, mercy could be exercised in the punishment of sinful, impenitent man without destroying its clemency or forfeiting its compassionate character, and justice could be exercised in forgiving the repenting transgressor without violating its integrity.”

Yes, He is “ready to forgive” us (Psalm 86:5), and has made advance preparation that He may forgive us (Revelation 13:8). At the same time, in all His action, He is still just, forgiving “the one who has faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:26). I write this way because forgiveness and “pardon and justification are one and the same thing.” (Faith and Works, page 103). We see in 2 Chronicles 7:14 and 1 John 1:9, His forgiveness is conditional. Notice the word “if”. While Jesus did pray, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do,” (Luke 23:24), of those who crucified Him we read that “they made this prayer an impossibility; for they would not be convicted, they would not repent and be converted.” (The Review and Herald, December 28, 1897 par. 16). Let us not be lulled into carnal security by the thought that we are forgiven when, in fact, we have not fulfilled the conditions God has specified. Remember, the sin of which we refuse to repent is the sin which cannot be forgiven (Mat 12:32).

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]]>By: John Gilmorehttp://ssnet.org/blog/while-we-were-yet-sinners/comment-page-1/#comment-47580
Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:09:19 +0000http://ssnet.org/?p=27468#comment-47580Thank you, Tyler, for bringing another facet into focus, and especially for the Scriptural support. Obviously there is a proper place for recognizing the wickedness of others and treating them accordingly. This is consistent with God's treatment of us sinners. While He longs to receive every one of us into intimate fellowship with Himself (1 John 1:3), He also allows us the freedom to reject Him (John 5:40; Matthew 23:37) and treats us according to our choices (Matthew 6:15; Matthew 23:38, Revelation 22:12).

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]]>By: Jesshttp://ssnet.org/blog/while-we-were-yet-sinners/comment-page-1/#comment-47578
Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:45:40 +0000http://ssnet.org/?p=27468#comment-47578Everything God does is perfect but its the sin that creates blemish. His law is perfect but it shows sin when love & mercy are not the main points of reference to us. Humans he made perfect but with free will therefore the choice is ours to love God who made us his children or Satan who wants us to be destroyed with him & the fallen angels.

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]]>By: Robert Whitemanhttp://ssnet.org/blog/while-we-were-yet-sinners/comment-page-1/#comment-47575
Sat, 23 Mar 2013 14:18:41 +0000http://ssnet.org/?p=27468#comment-47575Tyler, I believe Adam and Eve fully comprehended what they were told, but ran directly into "self" when the crafty temptations came, and chose self over God. They could not have been guilty otherwise, and I would expect would have lodged a fair objection to the whole ordeal.

Jesus did the very opposite when in Gethsemane He chose God's will over His own very powerful will to save Himself from what He knew was just before Him that very day (He sweat blood over it!). This is having the faith of Jesus, which will be the faith of the remnant people of God. (read about this experience in Early Writings, pg 269-271)

The fact that Adam and Eve were fully informed makes their sin greater and God's grace even more amazing. He will also be found to have been perfectly Just in every dealing with His creation since the beginning. (Rev 15:3)