Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

Why would a new class be to soon? I could understand that argument after DK's because there implementation was... difficult to say the least. Understandable because it was the first time they did it. I remember them saying at that time that they would indeed slow down on adding new classes because of those difficulties.
But, they kinda nailed it with Monks imo. I think that monks are already in a place that took DK's nearly two years to get to. So there isn't a giant mess of a new class holding them from adding another.
Overall class balance will -forever- be an issue. There is no chance in hell that they will ever perfectly balance all classes/specs, so that's hardly an argument against adding more. I think that as long is class balance is in a fairly good spot, there is nothing wrong with adding another class.

Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

You know what, I like you. You've effectively said the piece I wanted to in a shorter, more concise way...

Teriz, we've had our debate. I'm done. I'm honestly tired of you ignoring points of posts, posting the same rebuttals that only half apply to the argument at hand, and your incessant pushing of a class we have a low chance of getting, not just next expansion but ever. The only thing I will say in reply to an earlier response is that when the Remodel team is done, they will most likely be given a new project. Perhaps to work on the expansion following the next, who knows. Either way, the fact that you thought they would end up unemployed or just twiddling their thumbs after the remodel project is done shows you have no concept as to how the industry actually works. As far as I am concerned, every argument you have made regarding the teams is invalid, because you don't know. You make weak assumptions that are built upon what YOU think should work, and you are wrong.

I hope that when the next expansion gets announced, and the Tinker class is not announced with it, that you will finally learn to accept it. I will say, should they announce it with the next expansion, I will come here and create a thread to apologize to you. Seriously. However, I think my odds are pretty good that I will never, ever have to apologize to you.

PS: You should really rethink your stance on EQ. Without it, we'd have no WoW. You don't have to like it, but understand everything we have now was built on it's base model, and the fact that it is the longest lasting MMO should be worth some note.

If a 'show piece' is necessary as you pitch it, would new models not fill that role perfectly while utilizing the same team who usually would be working on the previous races?

Yeah, that wouldn't piss of anybody. A lot of people come back to try out the new class/race... now if they redid the racials completely, added new class mounts.. new spell animations and pretty much brought everything the player sees to 2014 then yes

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 05:25 AM ----------

I would expect new models. All new spell effects. All new animations. Several old things redone, such as mounts. No more fucking clipping on items. Several things that should be a given in 2013

It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

Originally Posted by ringpriest

World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

What do you call your beloved "Tinker" that takes Engineering as a primary Profession?

My point is, yes the profession may be dated and whack, but most others are as well. That doesn't justify a class unto itself, that is currently at this time basically a profession.

I'm aware you have a passion for the implementation of a "Tinker" class, but the facts of the matter remain - It's just too far into left field to be called feasible right now, both from a game-play perspective, as well as lore wise.

Those aren't facts. Technology in WoW is a pretty integral part of lore, as re characters that use that technology. In addition there was a tinker hero unit from WC3, and Goblins and Gnomes are both playable races. That makes things very feasible.

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 10:56 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Thimagryn

Your quote just solidified what I said. My point is with the character revamps, the ART is already a lot to handle. A new class requires more ART.

TBH I don't even think 4th spec are necessary. I simply meant that 4th spec would have been more likely, and even then it doesn't mean we're getting 4th specs next expansion.

Anything is possible and they could surprise us with a new class, but basing on what they already have on their plates (character model revamps) it's not likely that a new class would be introduced.

Except both GC and the development team said that 4th specs aren't coming next expansion if ever because it would require too much effort over the long haul, and because of spec bloat. So they are off the table completely.

What's left? Races and classes. The Blizzard dev team is working on vanilla (and possibly TBC) remodels, so the race side of things is handled. The only thing left is a new class.

The main feature of the next expansion won't be something announced years ago.

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 11:30 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Mormolyce

You're "getting" whatever Blizzard decides to "give" you.

Personally I think char models and no new classes or races would be a good thing. A new class right after an expansion with a new class is too soon. Also, MoP gave us both a new class and a new race so they've kind of gotten through two expansion's worth of new "player character" options already.

A new class isn't going to be added because of process of elimination. It will be added if the design is right for the expansion. For now, we don't even know what that expansion is, so I don't see why you're jumping to a conclusion like this so early.

Yes, 4th spec is unlikely to happen. It's also likely to happen and everything being said is just there to throw you off. Unless it's specifically confirmed/denied, an offhand comment by a blizz employee doesn't hold much weight in terms of what we're going to get. Remember when they said the new Dwarf model was ready by Mists' release? And now all comments about new character models is met with complete secrecy. They don't want to say too much or people will start speculating and over-assuming.

Guess what you're doing.

I think you have to stop reading into every little word that's being said and stop trying to find patterns to fit pieces together. It doesn't work like that. Prior to Mists, we would have never thought they would add a neutral Race, especially with all their talk about 'unique silhouettes for each faction'.

A new class isn't going to be added because of process of elimination. It will be added if the design is right for the expansion. For now, we don't even know what that expansion is, so I don't see why you're jumping to a conclusion like this so early.

Yes, 4th spec is unlikely to happen. It's also likely to happen and everything being said is just there to throw you off. Unless it's specifically confirmed/denied, an offhand comment by a blizz employee doesn't hold much weight in terms of what we're going to get. Remember when they said the new Dwarf model was ready by Mists' release? And now all comments about new character models is met with complete secrecy. They don't want to say too much or people will start speculating and over-assuming.

Guess what you're doing.

I think you have to stop reading into every little word that's being said and stop trying to find patterns to fit pieces together. It doesn't work like that. Prior to Mists, we would have never thought they would add a neutral Race, especially with all their talk about 'unique silhouettes for each faction'.

Let's say that the class does fit the expansion? Now what? Tinkers for example fit any expansion.

They aren't going to add just anything, it'll fit with the expac. Blizz is a big enough and successful enough to do that.

I know that. What I'm saying is that classes can be tailored to fit whatever the expansion theme might be. It all depends on the archetype. For example, I predicted a Monk class before MoP was announced. The Monk archetype is massive, and can fit nearly any expansion theme, so my concept was Runemasters, a monk-like class that uses runes to empower themselves. Theres also the standard Monks that had already existed in the game that could have been made into a class. Blizzard used a Monk archetype that fits the theme of the expansion, but the archetype remained. So regardless of which way the expansion went, a Monk class could have been implemented.

See my point? Classes can be very flexible things if you choose a class concept that is extremely broad and adaptable.

Let's say that the class does fit the expansion? Now what? Tinkers for example fit any expansion.

Not talking about themes, I'm more talking about features. We don't know anything about the next expansion or what they have planned. We can only assume they're saving Character Model revamps as a part of this. We really don't know anything else beyond this, and they haven't confirmed or denied anything speculative that was brought up. Anything can happen, whether it's 4th spec or new race or new class. We have no indication that any one of these is more likely than the other. Your 'facts' are based on Blizzard's usual answering-without-answering comments. You can't draw a reasonable conclusion with what little information we have.

Your patterns are broken by the mere existence of Mists of Pandaria. If you went by patterns, then Mists wouldn't have added Pandaren since Neutral Races aren't a part of the system. And again, Neutral races wouldn't even be a factor considering what they've said about unique silhouettes.

The only reasonable logic I see behind a new class is due to MoP's revamped spec and talent system. It's much easier now for Blizzard to design a class than before

If I remember blizzcon 2010 and 11 well Chirs Metzen ask if there body we want to see brought back the answer was illiadan then again on twitter same response. So why would they want to bring him and redem him if not for demon hunter class. The tinker class is broke up into racial and a profession plus the race wouldn't work as there suppose to be golbin or gnome.

Just wait until blizzcon. Until then, no ones going to admit they were wrong, becausr teriz is so stubborn that he won't admit anything or say he was wrong. And both argumemts of classes have valid arguments against them.

I think instead of adding new classes, they should just do a big crunch with everything. Classes, stats, abilities.. well, except for talents, wish they brought back the old system.

It's just gone too big and everything has lost it's uniqueness. In the past Blizzard always made games that had less than in other games but everything was very finely polished, every ability unique and different and on top of that, a huge amount of customization. Now it seems they've gone with the "same stuff in a different costume" route and made the game boring for those who aren't collectors or achievers. I think they should just go back to their roots.

If I remember blizzcon 2010 and 11 well Chirs Metzen ask if there body we want to see brought back the answer was illiadan then again on twitter same response. So why would they want to bring him and redem him if not for demon hunter class. The tinker class is broke up into racial and a profession plus the race wouldn't work as there suppose to be golbin or gnome.

Actually no Tinker or Alchemist abilities are present in WoW. The only one that comes close is an NPC ability from a boss in the Brawler's guild.

Demon Hunters on the other hand have all of its abilities stripped. Rogues have Evasion. Priests had Mana Burn. Warlocks have Immolation and Metamorphosis.

I haven't read through all the previous pages but the way I see it. I think Blizzard will take a page from the Rift book and allow every class a 4th spec which will include either a tank or healer spec. The reason this makes so much sense is that no1 will be able to complain about finding a role in groups for raids and instances. I know people may blast this idea over getting a new class but I think this is a long overdue idea.

Not talking about themes, I'm more talking about features. We don't know anything about the next expansion or what they have planned. We can only assume they're saving Character Model revamps as a part of this. We really don't know anything else beyond this, and they haven't confirmed or denied anything speculative that was brought up. Anything can happen, whether it's 4th spec or new race or new class. We have no indication that any one of these is more likely than the other. Your 'facts' are based on Blizzard's usual answering-without-answering comments. You can't draw a reasonable conclusion with what little information we have.

Your patterns are broken by the mere existence of Mists of Pandaria. If you went by patterns, then Mists wouldn't have added Pandaren since Neutral Races aren't a part of the system. And again, Neutral races wouldn't even be a factor considering what they've said about unique silhouettes.

The only reasonable logic I see behind a new class is due to MoP's revamped spec and talent system. It's much easier now for Blizzard to design a class than before

The patterns is what I use for class determination. In this thread, I was using simple logic to make three essential points;

1. If Blizzard is using its time to redo the 8 vanilla races, and vanilla races require more effort than new races, why would they create 2 new races on top of that? Why wouldn't they put all of their efforts behind remaking the 8 vanilla races?

2. If Blizzard is spending a great deal of time creating races, what else could they do as a new feature for the game? In the past, Blizzard has used races or classes as major selling points. With races out of the question due to Blizzard remaking over 8 of them, the only thing left is a new class. Right?

3.If 2 new races are introduced, and the Vanilla races are postponed, people will be quite upset, and wonder why Blizzard wasted resources on new races instead of fixing the most popular ones. Further, if both are introduced at the same time, the new races would be completely overshadowed by the older races for obvious reasons. Finally, the candidates for new races are lackluster compared to previous races that were implemented.

My personal conclusion is that we're getting a new class because of the old race remodels. I could DEFINITELY be wrong about that, but I don't see how unless Blizzard is bringing out a whole bunch of races next expansion, which wouldn't make much sense.