Most people are multifaceted and capable of astounding grace, class and dignity, even if they’ve also done terrible things politically or socially. I’m not a fan of George W. Bush and I could go on and on about how his presidency destroyed the country before Trump, but this week, I’m not going to start. He’s just a man grieving for his father, and Dubya is doing the best he can.

I’m also going to say this, knowing that many disagree: I do think it’s charming that W. Bush and Michelle Obama are so friendly. He flat-out adores her, and she always has nice things to say about him too. At John McCain’s memorial service in Washington in September, a small moment between Michelle and Dubya went viral: he furtively passed her a piece of candy, like they were both naughty schoolkids who were going to get in trouble if anyone caught them. At his father’s funeral service in Washington yesterday, W. Bush did it again. After he greeted the Trumps and Barack Obama with handshakes, he once again passed a piece of candy to Michelle:

Former U.S. President George W. Bush slipped Michelle Obama another treat at his father's funeral, just as he did months ago at John McCain's funeral pic.twitter.com/qg9J8DHZ6x

It says to me that Bush was aware of how that moment from McCain’s memorial went viral, and he also knows that his connection to the Obamas helps his legacy too. But mostly, I just think he’s sweet on Michelle. Here’s Dubya’s eulogy for his father:

Beyond the candy moment, George HW Bush’s funeral was a hotbed of political gossip. Barack Obama is still so well-received by everyone, even hardcore Republicans (even Dick Cheney seems to like him). Donald Trump made the effort to shake hands with both Obamas (Michelle looked disgusted), and Hillary Clinton flat-out ignored the fat fascist.

235 Responses to “George W. Bush passed candy to Michelle Obama again at his dad’s funeral”

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Anyway – I agree that presidential legacies are complex, and that’s certainly true both for GWB and his father. But, I can think they were really bad presidents, or did bad things for the country – and still think they were decent men. to me this is the part of the end of the era of “I don’t like your politics, and here’s a list of things that you did that were awful, but I still don’t think you were evil.” And its certainly true that they appear to be close as a family.

I completely agree with this. Also, I realize they both lived long full lives and W is 72 years old, but it still makes me sad for him/Jeb/the family that they lost both their mother and father this year. I don’t care how old you are, that isn’t easy, even if its expected.

His passing was not a total shock. It happens quite often that when one spouse dies the other follows shortly there after. I think this is more true if they are soul mates as George and Barbara seem to have been.

My parents were both early 70s, married 51 years, and passed 7 months apart like the Bushes did. It is like taking a second gut punch while still trying to get up from the first one. There may not be ample chance to grieve the first passing because the other soul mate is so profoundly affected. They may not be sobbing every day, but things are never the same for them.

I thought George the son summed it up well in his closing comments yesterday. I also believe my parents are holding hands again, and that eases the pain of loss.

Exactly, I’m not American, so I don’t feel appropriate for me to comment on politics, at the end of the day this is still just a normal family mourning the loss of a father, grandfather, husband… That’s all I got.

I had not gotten over my intense grief for my Mom when my father passed. Then, not long after my Dad, our 16 month old grandson died and I wasn’t sure I could make it back from that grief. One of the few things that comforted me was to think that they had greeted him with love and big hugs. Since then I have never questioned what people do or tell themselves to survive a loss of a loved one. 41 was evidently a wonderful father and grandfather.

I hear ya. From September 2013 to January 2015, so a year and a half, I lost a brother, then a sister-in-law, then a childhood friend of my son’s committed suicide, then I lost my mother-in-law, a week later a dear aunt died and then my mother passed away. I can’t even tell you how I survived. Just went on autopilot. Takes awhile to get through all that loss.

Murdering many innocent people abroad isn’t politics and certainly doesn’t make them good people. In my state a homicide conviction is an automatic life sentence. Would you say the same about someone murdering one person, much less thousands of people??

GWB can only be considered a decent man if the deaths and suffering of millions of Iraqis means nothing.

GWB was not and is not “decent”. He simply conformed to established norms regarding appropriate presidential behavior, speech, etiquette, etc. – is GWB’s vigorous support/campaigning for Kavanaugh somehow less morally repulsive than Trump’s because GWB did so quietly and behind the scenes while Trump did it publicly, loudly and crudely?

I do agree that Trump’s indifference to decorum means that we won’t undeservedly call him decent (as we do with the more well-mannered presidents that preceded him).

But even if Trump doesn’t ever start an unnecessary war that leads to millions of deaths , I’m sure many of us will still remember GWB as a “better” man than Trump – however, that says more about how little we value foreign lives than it does about either GWB/Trump’s moral character.

This is everything I feel about W, except better put. There’s clearly an aesthetic disgust for Trump (so heavy, so tacky, so smug) in addition to a moral one. And for me, even within myself, it’s not totally clear where one ends and the other begins.

But the best case scenario with W is that he allowed a lie to flourish in his administration at the cost of thousands of (civilian, children’s) lives. Despite a healthy amount of skepticism about that lie at the time.

Becks1 I like the way you worded that. As a teacher, I see the ADA in effect daily and am so thankful for the huge victories he won with that. Sometimes we can be both good and bad (I dare say most of us are!) and I understand that the presidential position is SO heavy. My goodness at the things they’re privy to that we aren’t, the decisions they have to make, the weight literal lives have in their hands.

And while I’m not a great fan of the Bushes, I do have to say that 41 is the only President since Roosevelt who managed to define a military mission, put together a coalition, accomplish the stated goal, and then END the war. I think he does deserve credit for that.

Trump-who couldn’t be bothered to even read the nicene creed in the program (while the ‘muslim’ seemed to know all the words by heart) and who dipped out the minute it was over and was back at the White House before the casket even made it to the hearse. Seriously. Not to mention the tweet where he said it wasn’t a funeral *eye roll*

He looked like a bored 6 year old the entire time with the slouch and finger tapping like he couldn’t wait to leave. Compared to the love and the class that the everyone else displayed it was really jarring.

The point was that wingnuts screamed about Obama being Muslim yet he was the one reciting the Christian prayer, while Trump — the purported savior for Christians — seemed to be clueless about it and the rest of a Christian service.

This was better said & received when John Zeigler originally tweeted it yesterday with more context.
And I ob knew it was a comment on Trump (hence the tongue in cheek) but using ‘muslim’ this way doesn’t look good. I get it… and it’s still not cool. Sorry not sorry for pointing it out. Have a great day everyone!

It’s a perfectly legitimate use. The quotation marks and the tone of the message clearly conveyed that the OP had no disrespect for Muslims, only for people who called Obama a “Muslim” as if it was a horrible thing to be.
How else would you refer to that fact in this context? This was done clearly and effectively.

I disagree; Muslim is not in any way at all derogatory, no matter HOW Trump uses it. Putting quotes around the word and making it lowercase makes it clear that in this context it’s another instance of Trumpette misuse, but it’s still in no way a derogatory word. It’s just a stupid attempt to MAKE it derogatory, and like everything else, the attempt fails.

I didn’t get to see or hear much of the service but I was happy to see that Trump seemed to be mostly shunned. At events likes these and the G20 it’s never more obvious that he has no business being in his position. And he seems to know it. He only seems comfortable and in his element at his horrific rallies. How utterly pathetic.

Brian Klaas had the best tweet: “Every time someone delivers a eulogy for an American statesman in the age of Trump, it sounds like they are attacking President Trump—not because they are, but because they are praising a sense of basic decency, a trait that is so obviously absent from the current president.”

Kitten, what I noticed is how Trump is glowering at Michelle Obama (in the CNN video freeze frame) because she and Bush are sharing warmth. LOL! Then he sat down and folded his arms over his chest, like he does when he’s acting like a 2-year-old Toddler because his fragile feelings are hurt.

Early on in the service it occurred to me that Trump would have a very hard time sitting still for so long.

That was a pleasing thought.

Meanwhile, several rows back, Chelsea Clinton was sitting next to Ivanka. Apparently, they were once friends? But yuk, and how awkward.

I also wondered what Carter was thinking. At his age, it’s likely he’s next. He’s currently 94, as was Bush Sr.; Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan were both 93. Considering how grey presidents often turn while in office, it’s interesting the stress of the presidency didn’t seem to shorten their lifespan.

I adore Jimmy Carter! The work that he continues to do everyday for people around the world is inspiring!! Have any of you noticed how Democrats presidents go on to maintain humanitarianism after leaving offices but Republicans don’t? And kudos to Hillary and I love the connection that Bill had with GHWB and the close relationship with Obama’s and GB and his wife. In an interview with MO, she mentioned that the cough drop that GB gave her was old, hopefully he handed her a fresher cough drop😜
As for Drumpf running down the cathedral BEFORE they removed GHWB’s casket was so REVOLTING to me. A complete disregard for the family and GHWB.

Jimmy Carter is the most under appreciated president out there. He really wasn’t as bad as they claim he was and he didn’t lie to the people like the republicans. Also there was some shady business about releasing the hostages in Iran to coincide with Reagan being elected.

His post president life was exceptional and he is just a fundamentally decent man. He does live his chrisitan faith in a way that helps others and not like whatever the hell is going on in the evangelical movement.

Lots has been made of this but I was watching and she clearly looked their direction and gave two polite head-nod acknowledgments. It was appropriate as she was too distant to shake hands (both Obamas and her husband were between Hilary and the Trumps). I admire her for her decorum.

On the other hand it really seemed like all of the past Presidents and VPs were giving Trump the stink eye. Which…makes sense even without Mueller, but especially so because I believe they continue to be briefed on National Security matters and may have seen the unredacted sentencing memo for Flynn. Their hostility (especially Cheney and Quayle) was palpable, and Bill C looked like he was straight-up laughing at him, whilst Obama could barely contain his glee. Even Carter seemed to want to punch him and that’s CARTER.

Do you believe Don the Con cares when he calls for Hillary to be put in prison, or that BO was not a ligititamate president because of his color, or that people in poor countries are from “$hit hole countries” or disrespect Elizabeth Warren, or Maxine Warren ect, ect. I will not care if anyone calls him fat or derogatory names, just saying.

I agree actually. He’s king of the dickheads but there are much worse things about him than his weight. It can be pretty triggering to those of us who are dealing with stuff around weight that the go to insult for this man is ‘fat’ – like, he’s literally a nazi sympathiser, a sexual assaulter and a prize A moron – why not call him those things instead of making fat people who are reading feel bad?

I like it as an insult for him because it’s the one thing he would absolutely HATE being called. He thinks he looks like some kind of perfect specimen and pointing out that he absolutely does not, would truly get under his skin in a way that calling him a Nazi just wouldn’t. He doesn’t care if people think he’s an anti-Semite. He cares if people think he’s ugly and fat. Which he is. The man is truly difficult to look at.

I think making fun of someone’s weight is childish and cruel, but what is Trump if not childish and cruel? He deserves a taste of his own medicine. This is a man that said Heidi Klum was “sadly no longer a ten.” Everyone should criticize how he looks at all times.

Also, he would definitely call every single one of us commenting here fat too, so I feel no guilt.

I don’t really follow what you’re trying to say about the “racist” bit, but I do agree that every time we call someone sh!tty “fat”, we’re opening the door a little wider for people to call someone great “fat”. I agree we should skip it.

I would never call anyone else fat either. I am happy to call him an obese piece of sh** though because you just know how much he hates it. He’d call me fat too because I’m a woman that doesn’t weigh 90 lbs, so I fully support calling the fat bastard a fat bastard.

Trump judges others, especially women, based on their physical appearance. He claimed that he couldn’t possibly have sexually assaulted a woman because “just look at her! She’s not a 10″, he values his older daughter because he sees her as f-able (I guess he doesn’t think Tiffany is a 10…), he dumps wives once they reached 35 because they were past their prime, he’s so shallow that he’ll refuse to honor veterans if it rains from fear of having the water mess up his hair and show he’s actually bald… Physical appearance is so important for him and yet he’s an obese, orange, ugly excuse of a man and calling him fat when he has insulted so many others is the least we can do.

I completely agree with you. Calling Trump fat isn’t so much an insult about his weight but meant as an attack on his ego. I don’t generally call people fat because that is a childish insult but seeing as Trump is basically a 5-year-old in the body of a senior citizen with an extremely fragile ego I say giving him back what he does to others is justified. Do any of you remember that miss something he called fat and ordered to work out more? That woman was gorgeous and had a fit body so if he can call someone out for gaining 2 pounds we can call him out for being an asshole fatass.

I’ve been looking through the comments section and I don’t know if it’s me but there are quite a few people trying to edit other people’s words. I don’t know who made them moderator but once you start editing every single word someone says or writes you’re bound to get offend by everything.

Like, disrespect Trump til the cows come home – he deserves nothing but hell, but he’s not the one reading the comments here reducing his awfulness to his weight. It’s those of us who are fat and who are right there with you hating him, but having our own eating /dysmorphia issues being stirred up by it. That’s just from a personal POV, obviously anyone can say what they want.

But it’s not really about his weight. It’s about insulting him with his own words. No other person is called fat on this site by commenters. He’s a special exception because everyone knows just how much it would drive him crazy to be called fat by a bunch of women. Women who he would gladly insult with similar words.

By mocking him for his weight, you are saying that weight is something mockable rather than a value neutral statement about someone’s appearance.

I get what everyone here is saying. I loathe and despise Donald Trump more than I have ever hated a person. I am also fat, and I really try to destigmatize that word because it’s morally neutral. By using it as an attack on someone, you are saying that it is not a neutral thing.

He’s a literal nazi sympathizer. He’s a racist. He’s xenophobic. He’s a child abuser. He hates women and abuses them. He’s classist. Ableist. Ignorant and unwilling to learn. I’m sure I’m missing some. If you’re going to insult him, insult him with something that should be insulting, not just a descriptor that applies to millions of other people (including a number of people on this site who are saying it is hurtful to them).

45 didn’t make an effort to say hello to the Carters, but that was probably because he was afraid Hillary would give him a smack down ! She looked furious! The Obamas certainly showed class. Yes, the world was watching but I don’t think I would have shaken that man’s hand after all he has said and done

I think he ignored the Carters because they were at the far end, and he couldn’t conceive of the simple act of stepping in front to greet them and shake their hands over the woodwork like GW did when the Bush family arrived. Trump didn’t want to be there, and it showed. He only does the bare minimum in situations like this. Just enough so he doesn’t look like a complete ass on TV and can tweet later about how he deserves a cookie for showing up.

How many people have cried burying their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, friends and children who died due to the war that George W. Bush started? He’s a war criminal. And a walking reminder that even with all that blood on his hands, he can continue living his wealthy life(thanks to said war) and just paint his little pictures.

@Rulla, The first Bush stopped the illegal invasion of a sovereign country – Kuwait – by sending Saddam back to Iraq via limited military action. It was a joint effort by the Allies. I was one of them, so please don’t disrespect US vets (and other vets fom Great Britain, etc) who did their duty.

I don’t think there is a perfect president. FDR was considered one of the greatest because he dealt with the Great Depression (many of the beautiful buildings we have today were from his WPA program plus he founded Social Security etc). However on the other hand, he ok’d the concentration camps.

These people will never be “perfect.” I do acknowledge the years of service HW put in and he worked all facets of the US govt – which is unusual for a president.

As someone who attended more than one military funeral during the Obama administration, I feel the need to point out that there is no president in modernity that doesn’t have blood on their hands. If you aren’t outraged at the 2,500 military deaths, or the military strikes and air raids on SEVEN different countries Obama approved (not to mention the drone strike on a hospital) than you can’t judge 41 solely on his military actions during his presidency.

All American presidents have blood on their hands and have taken part in unnecessary wars. The American empire calls for it. Ok maybe jimmy carter didn’t call for war, but then they said he was a bad president and elected Reagan.

Jenna and Rulla: I couldn’t agree more. I was having this exact conversation today with my best friend. The George Bushes are both warmongers, who made a shitload of money from their wars. Harsh, but good riddance.

Bush Senior unleashed the consummately evil Lee Atwater and Karl Rove on politics, which laid the groundwork for Trump, governing-by-lies…and the godawful Fox propaganda machine. And we won’t even get into the racist Willie Horton mess.

One other thing that gets glossed over is how each had economic issues (recessions) during their terms.

I heard one pundit trying to gloss over the 1991 recession, which was brief, but I was one of many who lost a job due to panic over the Gulf conflict and recession. The son had a near Depression during his watch, which somehow gets blamed on his successor.

I have no love for HW, but the massive tax cuts and profligate spending of the Reagan years caused the recession. To his credit, and at the expense of a second term, HW raised taxes and cut spending, which paved the way for Clinton’s balanced budget and economic expansion.

I think we can all agree there was no truly perfect time, presidency, etc. My point is that certain modern era presidents are ridiculed if not downright dismissed, while others are canonized. All had a mix of hits and misses.

The Reagan years are branded as halcyon, when those of us who lived through them know they were not quite that perfect.

It’s pretty standard in our 20th-21st century history that Republicans trash the economy and Democrats fix it. Whose policies resulted in Black Tuesday and the Great Depression? Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover, who was commerce secretary before becoming president, were all Republicans. Johnson handed Nixon a robust economy but by the time Nixon handed it off to Ford, inflation was out of control and the whole thing was out of gas for Carter to deal with the aftermath. 1989 saw a great real estate crash and a recession. Bush II blew up what Clinton handed him. And now Tariff-Man is trying to bring back the policies of Harding/Coolidge/Hoover while Republicans in Congress have been chipping away at programs that protect people since Reagan was in office.

It’s always the successor that gets the blame because the problem doesn’t come to full light until then. Hoover gets the blame for the Depression when in fact it started under Harding and Coolidge due to their policies. The recession started under W but it wasn’t until 2008, 2009 when it fully hit then you have Obama who now has to deal with it.

I grew up in a community decimated by the AIDS epidemic of the 80’s and 90’s. I saw many mothers bury their children while Bush’s “action” on AIDS was to tell gay and bi-sexual men to “change their behavior.”

They don’t seem to realise that “grading on a curve” means “For Americans” and it’s a completely and utterly pointless modifier when their global reach means that every US president has ruined other countries while they’ve been in power (yes, including Obama). For the world, Bush was awful. Now that America has Trump and his bad presidential decisions are starting to affect them and not just the nameless masses of non-Americans they go all in on the cosy Grandpa Bush myth.

Noam Chomsky lays out convincing evidence that under Nuremburg rules every US president, including fan favorite Obama, is a war criminal. Gotta break a lot of eggs to make an omelette as powerful as the US.

Agree, this is a point people tend to overlook. If you’re going to sh*t all over one president, you have to shit on the rest. Although Obama was obviously better than either Bush, he is still technically a war monger as well.

@aang, yep. Even my favorite President Franklin Roosevelt had policies that I totally disagreed with. However, he bought our country out of the Great Depression and helped end the war in Europe. There are good and bad traits in every leader.

Right? Even if we ignore how absolutely awful both Bush’s were domestically and abroad. Did everyone freaking forget GW was instrumental in getting Kavanaugh confirmed…like 2 months ago?!!! What is happening?!

I watched the funeral from soup to nuts
( I’m a presidential funeral junkie) there were so many remarkable moments but most notable by a landslide was the Trumps entrance. The camera’s captured a lot of smiles, embraces and low key conversation but the moment they arrived there was such a shift in mood. Only Trump could be so clueless as to then nod off while surrounded by all that tension

Am I the only one who thinks doing this at his dad’s funeral is weird? I mean he had to pre-plan it, he had that candy ready. At a funeral. And shook hands with a bunch of people before her.
I would find it soooooooooo sweet at any other event, but not at this one.

But then again everybody grieves in their own way and perhaps that lightened his day.
I hope he’s doing alright.

It would be wierd if he gave her something like an engagement ring or a wrapped up Christmas present, but it was just a piece of candy, which is something he’s given to her in the past even at another funeral.

I don’t think it’s becoming tradition. More like a little inside joke the whole world is in on. They knew that their prior exchange blew up and was heavily noted and they do seem to be friends so they probably thought it was funny that a candy exchange garnered so much attention. It was just a little joke between them that probably helped lighten his day of grieving and showing some good spirits towards someone he considers a friend that came out to suppprt his father

I don’t find it weird. My dad brings candy or cough drops to every single funeral or church service because his throat will get dry, or it’ll give him a brief distraction from what’s going on. And he’d rather pop a lozenge or candy than clear his throat and be disruptive. It’s been a constant in our household for as long as I can remember, and I suspect my grandfather did the same.

But is it a pre-planned ‘joke’. I mean – could it be that the last time it happened she could have said something like ‘I always forget to bring a lozenge’ or ‘my throat gets so dry at these things’. I guess I just don’t think it was automatically a joke in that sense as much as a little courtesy because he knew she also would rather have a piece of candy too.

I didn’t find it weird. Michelle has said in the past that they have become close because they are always seated together because of protocol. This was the first event he wasn’t beside her at because it was his father’s funeral. I think it was his way of acknowledging his absence beside her and the circumstances.

Nancy I agree with you that it was weird; I had that same reaction as soon as I read about it. It was cute the first time because it was spontaneous, but to do the exact same thing again on purpose like he’s trying to make a little “bit” out of it or something is bizarre. The fact that it was at his father’s funeral makes it even tackier. I guess he gets so little good press that he’ll do anything he can for a positive headline!

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion here, but Michelle’s friendship with W and the kind words she says about him has really lowered my opinion of her. I’ve always liked her, but she should absolutely know better. Even if he’s charming in person and has an affinity for her personally, she’s well aware of the horrific things he’s done to people all over the world and I can’t get past the fact that she still likes and respects him.

It is very strange to me how tone-deaf she is about it. Especially since W JUST helped the GOP in the weeks before the midterms. He was out there trying to help put or keep people who will advance Trump’s agenda in power. There are literally still children in cages who will never see their parents again — just to mention ONE of the atrocities going on in our country at the hands of the GOP — yet W went out on the campaign trail less than two months ago to help keep the people who are fine with all of these horrors in power. So for her to go on talk shows and talk about how great he is really diminishes her in my eyes. I don’t know how she can reconcile his behavior with the cute little old man she seems to want him to be and I have zero interest in reading her book or listening to anything she has to say right now.

I thought it was weird, but at the same time I thought maybe he needed a respite from the sadness. State funerals are brutal on the family, I can’t imagine having to publicly mourn for a week. A little levity is needed sometimes. And it was sweet. And the look on Trump’s face made it even better.

I think the GWB relationship with Michelle is cute and shows us a side of W that we all wished we had seen during his presidency. During his eulogy of his dad, who he obviously adored, W ran through the gamut of emotions—reverence, joy, sorrow, and snark. He’s a wonderful man although he was a subpar president.

Individual-1 and his clan could learn a lot from the personal and familial relationships the Bushes have.

I’m glad that the Bush name won’t have a legacy nearly as dark and evil as the trump name, those traitors.

In an effort to be civil, I said W was a subpar president. That being said, he’s not nearly the cretin that wannabe-dictator, racist, corrupt, witness-tampering, obstructor-of-justice, fill-the-swamp, serial-adulterer, pussy-grabbing, nepotistic lying asshat that Emperor Zero is.

After 9/11, he sold his war on making white Americans terrified of brown people. He willfully lied to Americas about weapons of mass destruction. He gave an speech against gay marriage during the SOTU, claiming that is would ruin America. Bush, Cheney and all those cronies make millions on the Iraq war thanks to shady contracts. And even after leaving office, he was an open support of the pussy-grabbing SC nominee Brett Kavanaugh. He paved the way for Trump.

Eric: I always read and enjoy your posts, but “wonderful man?” Seriously? No, he is not a wonderful man. Just because Trump is far worse doesn’t erase all of the atrocities committed by W and his administration.

Sure, he’s sad that his dad died, but most people would be, and that doesn’t say anything about his character or make him “wonderful.” He is a stain on the history of our country and millions of people all over the world are still living with horrendous ramifications of his acts. SMH

I agree with you not letting Dubya off the hook what he & his administration did to America.

That being said i was hoping that Twitler & Melanoma wouldn’t be invited to the funeral. They weren’t looking forward anyway and Twitler was looking miserable the whole time and brought the mood even more down if you would believe that was possible. He didn’t show any sign of respect. Why was he even there? He could’ve been sneaking back to play some golf and no one would miss him.

Since it was a state funeral, they are obligated to invite him since he is the president. However, Twitler is the first president who did not give an eulogy and that is traditionally done by the sitting president. I’m sure people will be horrified if he did a sudden rally of “lock her up.” So they made him sit.

I don’t see an issue with her being kind/cordial to him in person, it’s more her comments on him in one interview rather than her actions.

However, I’ve said it before—Michelle is stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to talking about Bush. The media is the one who coined/came up with their friendship, when it seems more like Michelle is generally friendly to everyone and Bush is the one who adores her and goes out of his way to be friendly towards her. She made a misstep being too nice in her comments about him, but the media/world is hard enough on a Black woman, and Michelle has already been through so much, that I’m not going to come at her for not handling the situation in the best manner. There were definitely some critical undertones in the media cover of her criticism of Trump, despite the fact that he put her kids life in danger by promoting Birthirism, so I can’t imagine how the media would handle it if she said “well, I’m nice to everyone and W. is a friendly fellow, but we’re not really buddies.”

Also, Trump was so goddamn disrespectful; slumping over, frowning, and hurrying out of the church before the casket even left. I have serious issues with the white washing of H.W., especially because of the Willie Horton ad, how he handled the AIDS crisis, etc. But at the very least I can think of some good things H.W. did—the ADA, raising taxes on the rich (probably the last republican to do so), going against Thatcher when it came to thoughts/foreign help in Germany reunification, etc. Trump, in comparison, won’t have accomplished anything good.

While I definitely believe Michelle is more or less stuck in the narrative the media created, the one thing she can do is try and find a middle ground between being her usual effusive, kind self; telling the likely truth (that he is friendly to her, but they aren’t friends); or treating him like Trump.

I do feel bad for Michelle because the social protocol is pretty adhered too (even the Carters and Bushes treat each other in a friendly manner) and I get the feeling she generally wants to stay out of politics, especially with all the racism she has dealt with, and simply focus on her charitable causes and her book. Most first ladies are allowed to stay apolitical, but she’s being held to a different standard.

@Esmom I see what you’re saying, but I disagree that she needs to go along with the narrative. She could (and should, IMO) simply decline to speak about him in public. She has the clout to request that no questions are asked about him in interviews, and she could just avoid the entire thing. But she goes out of her way to be effusive and that is very offensive to some people.

Obviously she is a classy woman and she will always be friendly to him in settings such as a public funeral, but if she never acknowledged him outside of events like that, the whole “buddy” narrative would have died off a long time ago. Yet she keeps it going.

This just occurred to me, but maybe in a way she feels like she needs to be that way with W because her husband (who I ADORE) is also, according to many definitions, a war criminal, and she wants to put forward the idea that good people can sometimes do awful things but outside of the presidency they’re still fine people. Because that is how she wants Barack to be treated. And it is true, to an extent. But there is absolutely no comparison to the horrors of W’s administration and anything Obama did while in office.

Speaking of Canadian politics being shady there’s a viral link going around of the new trade agreement being signed where Justin Trudeau pulls a camera spike ala The Office because Donald Trump was being a moron and signing in Sharpie.

Bearcatlawyer: ‘Myron Baloney’ is & was shady a f. I’m a Canadian who worked over 25 years for the Federal gov’t ; he was hated by everyone. Rampant corruption & he admitted taking money from an arms dealer while in office. If anyone ever traced where all his money came from there’d be shock. He did not come from money; his wife is a shameless social climber who probably has a lot in common with Melanoma.

Oh I remember the Mulroney years in Canada. I went to school with his son Ben for a while too.

The irony for me is that Brian Mulroney is way more of a statesman than Cheeto Mussolini can ever hope to be. When Mulroney starts to look like a better leadership option, you know we are in a seriously bad situation.

Americans don’t know that the Conservative party was reduced to only three seats because Canadians hated Mulroney so much by the end of it. Poor Kim Campbell never had a chance to stop that tide. Also he took money in a paper bag from Schneider and got away with bribery.

Bearcat for a sec I thought you might have gone to law school in Quebec since Ben went to Laval University but then I realized he attended undergrad in the states.

The Obamas, Bushs, Clintons, Carters and the families of the other presidents, belong to a very small club and they’re the only ones who understand what it is to be in that club, whether they chose it, like Obama, Clinton, Carter, and Bush did, whether it was part of where their marriages took them, like Michelle, Laura, Hillary, Rosalyn, or whether they were born into it, like Malia, Chelsea, Jenna, Caroline, Tricia. There has always been a lovely connection and camaraderie between the families. Presidents have always consulted past presidents on issues. New first families have often reached out to former first families for advice on child rearing, schools, how to handle the spotlight, dealing with the residence. They all did make it clear that they were available to the Trumps but have all been rejected and insulted time and time again. So, now they circle together and make it very obvious who the outsiders are. Orange Voldy looked like he had never been to a funeral before, any funeral, not just a State Funeral. He had no clue what to do and his idiot wife was no better. Neither one of them knew what to do during the Creed and she had somehow lost her program from which she could have read it. Earlier in the ceremony, there was a photograph circulating of Melania talking to Obama. She was pointing at something in the program, Obama looked like he was trying to explain it to her but was running out of patience, Michelle had clearly lost patience and had a facial expression of “you can’t be THIS stupid”, Bill look deeply bemused as if he was about to laugh, and Hilary was staring at her program, pointing at the same spot Obama was with a look of complete contempt for the idiocy at the end of the bench.

Good or bad, no one is perfect. I get so pissed every time I read condolences for the Bush family followed by what they did wrong during their presidency. Just shut up and pay your respects and leave the politics alone for a day.

I reject the notion that you can’t speak honestly about the dead. HW had both successes and failures as president. His pardoning of those involved in the Iran/Contra scandal was to cover up his own illegal actions, his inaction on AIDS prolonged the epidemic, his war on drugs was deeply racist, but his handling of the dissolution of the Soviet Union vastly improved US/Russia relations (pre-Putin, of course), his decision not to take the Gulf War into Iraq was very smart, and his willingness to do the hard thing and raise taxes pulled the US out of an economic spiral. We need to learn from his successes and his failures and we can’t do that if we can’t speak honestly about the dead.

@Kitten, yeah, but the OP started this off with “no one is perfect”, which doesn’t sound like a 1-day kind of plea, but more of a “don’t throw rocks” in general, which I object to quite vehemently. Sure, I’m not perfect, but I’m also quite sure I didn’t cause the death of thousands, if not millions, of people.
Also, would you react the same way if someone asked to stop criticizing Hitler or Saddam Hussein just for 1 day, to acknowledge that they were wonderful fathers, sons, husbands, neighbors, and friends? Or is that a privilege reserved for US Presidents?

Perhaps. But I find Americans’ insistence that none of their presidents are as bad as the real baddies overseas intellectually dishonest, so I’d rather be lazy than dishonest, I suppose.
I’m not sure what that’s even supposed to mean? Of course he’s not Hitler. Only Hitler is Hitler. Only Hussein is Hussein. But objectively speaking, the damage inflicted by Bush Jr. far outweighs that of Hussein, yet Hussein died for his crimes, and Junior deserves a hug. American logic?

Except you literally just compared him to Hitler and Hussein. I didn’t bring any former leaders into the conversation, YOU did.

And nobody here is insisting that American Presidents aren’t as bad as those overseas so please stop the hyperbole. You continue to argue a point I’m not making. I’m saying people are a mixture of good and bad–it’s not complicated. If you disagree with that then feel free to tell me why. Otherwise, I’m done with this conversation.

@Kitten, I typically always agree with everything you say, but disagree here. No, of course Bush Sr. wasn’t Hitler, but when you add up all of the people who suffered and/or died due to his policies or inaction — whether it be his foreign policy or his issues addressing AIDS — he’s certainly up there in terms of the number of lives lost.

And I’m absolutely not minimizing his role in passing the ADA which is one of the best things to happen in our country in a long time. Just because I disagree with most of his positions doesn’t mean I can’t or won’t give him any credit for the great things he did.

However, I do think former POTUSs are in a unique and complicated position, and that people who are “good” parents, spouses, friends, etc. can do horrible things professionally— but just because he passed away doesn’t mean Bush should be immune from honest criticism of things that happened due to choices HE made when he was one of the most powerful people in the world.

I’m not suggesting anyone step up to the podium at the man’s funeral to take him to task for his misdeeds — of course everyone around his family at this time is expected to be nothing but respectful — but citizens like us have every right to discuss him in a public forum like we are right here and be honest about both his accomplishments AND his failures. It just comes with the territory of being POTUS.

And to state the obvious, his family is most likely not here reading these comments so the things I will say here are very different than what I would say to a grieving family if for whatever reason I was in a position to be at the man’s funeral. There’s a time and a place for everything, and I don’t see anything wrong with posters here being honest about his legacy, good and bad.

Thank you, @Megan, first Bush’s action in Kuwait were sanctioned by other foreign powers. It was a JOINT effort to drive Saddam back to Iraq. Second Bush later invaded Iraq and destabilized the area, not his father.

I was watching a group of old white men on Chris Matthews, which included Matthews btw, and Tom Brokaw, and a couple of others, talk about HW. And it was so fascinating because I lived through his Presidency, and I remember Atwater, and I remember HW telling us infants were being torn out of incubators in Kuwait, and left to die on the floor, in order to get us into the first Iraq war. And of course that was a lie. And as I watched them wax poetic about this “great man” I thought to myself, you know what? This is why we’ve never had a woman President.

It’s because old white men tell the stories and in doing so, they write the history. And if you allow them to create their myths in those first days after a death, those myths become history. I saw it happen with Reagan.

He also passed the Americans with Disabilities Act, which markedly improved the lives of 55 million people with disabilities. I think people who aren’t burdened with physical and mental challenges don’t fully understand the impact that bill had in terms of quality of life for our disabled population.
And a bill like that would NEVER be passed in our current White House–probably not even under Obama. I mean, the spending alone….

But is that accomplishment entirely invalidated because of his role in the Iraq war?

This is what I mean by my comment below. Conversations are framed in a way that forces people to take a side. I mean–it’s allllll over this thread. People are a mixture of good and bad and when we discuss them, it behooves us to discuss BOTH, if for no other reason than for the sake of truth and honesty.

Sigh. The war didn’t occur in a vacuum and *just one* person isn’t responsible for it. Everyone from the DOD to the Petraeus to oil companies were involved in that decision. Again, you base your argument on a premise that simplifies a complicated issue, just to support your emotional reaction. I have zero interest in pursuing a discussion like that. I’m not on cable news and I don’t have to pick a side.

What you’re not understanding is that I’m not telling anyone how to grieve or whether they should be angry about Bush’s legacy or not. I was making the point that simply refraining for a couple days costs us nothing and probably means a great deal to his friends and family.

So forgive me but I’m having trouble understanding how your question addresses my larger point that people are complicated and we’re not all heroes and villains.

Honestly, your question is no different than me asking you if a disabled person who greatly benefited from the Americans with Disabilities Act should somehow wish that the bill was never passed because the Iraq war killed babies and caused birth defects. I mean, the two have literally nothing to do with each other. It’s not a zero-sum game.

@Kitten: there are so many posts in this thread that it’s getting confusing, but I just wanted to say that ITA with what you said in your post at 11:50am.

I think you nailed it — while we may disagree on how to discuss Bush Sr., a big part of our reaction is because he is inextricably linked to W in our minds and so that colors our thinking. I hadn’t thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense!

Every president leaves behind a complicated legacy. I don’t mind that people discuss the horrific impact of Bush’s presidency but I also think that we could give it a day, you know? To me, it’s just basic manners to hold back in the immediate wake of his death and let his family grieve peacefully. We’ve had years since his presidency to discuss its lasting effect on our lives and we will have years in the future to continue to discuss it. Nobody is going to somehow miss out on the opportunity to talk shit about HW Bush if we take a day or two to hit *pause* before the man is buried.

Look, humans are innately fallible–but we are MORE than the worst thing we’ve ever done. Unfortunately, in this incendiary political environment, polarizing hot takes are preferable to nuanced discussion. Everything is binary, black and white, good or bad, right or wrong. It’s not only exhausting but it undercuts the ability to discuss complicated matters in a productive, thoughtful way. Sad, really.

Still not with you on “1 day” – we didn’t know the guy, so it’s not quite the same as not criticizing an imperfect family member or friend immediately upon passing. He’s a stranger to us and no one around us is likely to really grieve him, so not sure whose feelings we’re trying to spare.
I also think that Presidents’ worst things tend to be pretty bad, and could potentially be defining. I mean, I’m sure Hitler has done a lot of nice things for his circle, and Stalin supposedly really loved his wife (although by some accounts that meant abuse), but what they’ve done to their countries and the world dwarfs their good deeds by a mile, and so they have the reputation that they deserve.
However, I hear your argument on Bush. I do think he did some great things for this country, too. Just out of curiosity: what’s your personal tally on him? More good for the country or more bad? What about the world? A purely subjective measure, of course. I don’t intend to dispute it – Bush was before my time, so I know next to nothing about his presidency.

I read this quote recently:
“To the living we owe respect, but to the dead we owe only the truth” Voltaire
I think we owe it to ourselves to speak honestly about the man he was – the trespasses as well as the triumphs. I’m from Australia and we have a former PM called John Howard. I hated his racism, support of privatising health and education and general conservative stance. On the other hand, he took decisive action on gun control and started a scheme whereby EVERYONE could get greatly discounted mental health care. The scheme continues today. I am especially grateful for the latter as I have several serious mental health issues. When talking about him, it does not feel complete to talk only of his achievements or failures. They all combine to make the total him.

@ Nat-I think the question of whether *the bad* is more impactful than *the good* is a fascinating one that I’m not sure I can answer. My initial reaction is to say that the bad outweighs the good but then that would mean that all the social advancement that our country made under Obama would be negated because of Yemen. I think saying Yemen was an avoidable disaster for millions of innocent people and Obama had a hand in causing this unforgivable war is true. And I think saying LGBT equality, environmental protections. and all the social progress we made under Obama greatly improved the lives of many Americans is also true.

One thing is certain: under every unique leadership (and this is universal I think) there will be people who benefit greatly and others who suffer immensely because of leadership decisions. I guess it comes down to the degree of suffering and the level of equality in that trade-off.

It’s an interesting question to ponder, that’s for sure.

RE: HW Bush, I personally think he did more bad than good and my opinion is largely based on the inescapable fact that his son is part of his legacy. Can’t erase that DNA, ya know?

Hi Kitten. This is not where I really want to reply but there is a lack of ‘Reply’ buttons available and I want to keep it all in the same thread. To answer others’ rhetorically-asked question, yes, I consider most (maybe all if I studied it) US (and probably all over the world) presidents war criminals.

I consider most politicians corrupt and try not to trust any (less I be inevitably disappointed), though listen to the evidence and try not to be partisan. There are a few good ones who I have never read a skerritt of wrong-doing. The problem with democracies is apparently to work within them, all sides need to greatly compromise.

Being a world leader I imagine is incredibly hard. As a former uni lecturer said and I practise, give them all a hard time. Interrogate them all. Don’t let party affiliations blind you to their failings.

I’m a Democrat – only because the US doesn’t have a viable socialist party. I really wanted to give George W a hug after his eulogy. Politics be damned and I don’t care who did what to whom, right now. The poor man lost both of his parents in a short span and deserves a damn hug from me.

His father, also a war criminal, was buried in one piece. We can’t say the same for the Iraqis that were bombed. By whitewashing both of their crimes against humanity you’re giving the thousands of families who lost their loved ones to both bush’s wars a big f you. My thoughts are with them and only them, not some privileged war criminals.

FFS. W is a war criminal, but H.W. was not a war criminal. H.W. did some terrible, should be illegal things; and I disagree with the First Gulf War, but unless you are talking about Panama (and even that’s arguable) he’s not a war criminal.

Politicians can do horrendous, even illegal things, and still not be war criminals. Calling every US president war criminals (and if we go by say, the Intercept’s standards, Jimmy Carter is also a war criminal for his support of Suharto as is nearly every modern president) downplays the actual severity of real war criminals—like W. in Iraq., the former USSR in Afghanistan, and so on.

If we are unable to show some respect and decency to those that have wronged and maligned us, how are we any better than 45? I also come from a background where I believe it’s bad luck to speak ill of the dead before they are buried. I believe in showing kindness, even to my enemies. Even “war criminals” deserve hugs.

It’s kind of amusing that your comments suggest that in order to show respect and decency, we have to avoid talking about the political careers, political actions, and political legacies of these political figures.

Like you’re implicitly saying that speaking about what these men chose to do while in office is equivalent to speaking ill because their choices were so terrible.

That we can’t be nice AND make factual statements about their political careers – it’s one or the other.

Ironically, that’s one of the more insulting sentiments I’ve read in this post.

I’m not a war person but remember HW went to war because of the atrocities against the Kuwaiti people and he then pulled out pretty quickly with no remaining troops. Also, can you name one President that has done war right”? Roosevelt did OK but had the world behind him. Not a single one because they all suck at it, including Obama. War is very complicated thing. I’ve worked as an aid worked in war torn countries and to just believe there is one side to war is myopic and thinking in a box. It is a lot more complicated than just calling someone a war criminal. Also look at the real lords of war and its rarely the President, look at the people behind them first.

Because in that moment you were reacting emotionally, human to human. You had an honest, HUMAN response.
And people here are essentially telling you that your very real feeling of empathy and compassion is wrong because this human is *bad*.

My advice? Keep being you, Lucia, because empathy and compassion are at a premium these days.

I just finished reading Becoming and I walked away feeling very conflicted about Michelle Obama. I actually think I liked her more BEFORE I read the book and her team could
have guided her better. Anyway, her and GWB’s routine doesn’t surprise me, it’s par the course for MO.

Check it out and let me know what you think. She comes off (to me) as lacking self awareness in some aspects including how she deals with pastor Jeremiah Wright, her take on education being the great equalizer (it’s not) and how she talks about the veterans without taking even half a page to acknowledge the innocent people killed by drone attacks. Don’t get me started on her impressions of Nairobi and Kisumu (facepalm) Strangely enough, a lot of very smart black women I follow have been lukewarm on the book and I didn’t understand why till I read it. She seems sweet, driven and diplomatic but there were these few things that bothered me. Anyway, Happy reading!

@Aaliyah— ironically, I didn’t even buy Michelle’s book because I had a sense it had the potential to make me like her less, and I really love her and didn’t want that to happen! After reading reviews, I think I’m happy with my decision.

I’ve read that some people (oh god, I sound like 45!!) are questioning the timing of her book tour…things are so, so mindnumbingly awful right now, and many seem to think it’s distasteful for her to be on a promotional tour when our country is in such crisis. I honestly don’t know how I feel about it; I see both sides. Obviously everything can’t come to a halt for the entirety of Trump’s term, but it does come across as slightly tone-deaf to me that she’s spending her time and political capital selling her book instead of doing something to help the children in cages, everyone who lost their homes in fires, people who are STILL displaced due to hurricanes that most Americans have already forgotten about, and all of the other horrors that would take too long to list here. It seems a bit “off” to me.

I really do like Michelle a lot and will never forgive or forget the way she was treated during her time in the WH, so I hope this doesn’t come across as bashing her in any way, I’m just sort of thinking out loud and trying to work out how I feel about it. And right now I’m feeling like it’s not the best timing.

Lorelei, I am not sure Michelle or Barack can do anything about the babies in cages, because his immigration policies were really pretty bad. I know the difference. I know they held unaccompanied minors and they did not separate families or take babies from their parents as policy, like Trump. But I still think it would bring up a lot of bad noise about OBama’s own immigration legacy. For example, I know any time i bring up how upset I am about this, i get pushed back on and people demand to know if I was so upset when “obama did it”. Now, I know he didn’t do that, but I also know he was no great shakes on it, and it’s problematic. I just tell them to go shit in the ocean, but that’s not really a response the Obamas can give.

Just for the record, I wasn’t suggesting that Michelle should be *solving* any of these issues, only questioning the wisdom of doing this huge book tour, promoting herself and making a TON of $ while all of these insane atrocities are happening in our country right now.

I used the babies in cages as one example — some people just find it tasteless for her to be out there on the road selling out stadiums like a rockstar and selling something that will only benefit her and her bank account while so many people are suffering right now. She could have postponed the release of her book to a time when our country isn’t falling apart. Absolutely no one is suggesting that it is Michelle’s responsibility to clean up any of Trump’s messes.

But if she’s going to put herself out there and give interviews, I think her time would be better spent on trying to improve the f-ckery taking place right now instead of profiting from her memoir. She has an enormous platform and she could use it in a way other than just selling her book. Now more than ever we need people like her standing up and fighting with us.

She has every right to sell a memoir, I am simply questioning the optics of doing it right at this moment in time for our country.

Are other authors allowed to do book tours or promotion right now or is it only MO who shouldn’t be? Should she just sit down and be quiet until the US isn’t a dumpster fire? I don’t understand why you think she needs to put her life on hold/potentially break contracts re the publication of her book because bad things are happening? Perhaps there is hope to be found in her book/her leadership?? Oh and she has plans to donate a significant portion of the proceeds to charity – it’s not like charities need any help right now….oh wait…..

However, there is no shame in allowing someone the space to grieve a family member and to find a kind word or 2 on the deceased. Whether that deceased is Charles Manson, George Bush, or anyone else.

It just seems tacky and classless to attack a dead man before he’s buried.

I’ll be the first to line up and say 41′s legacy includes some pretty awful stuff from his time in the CIA, Kuwait and his handling of AIDS. However, let the man be buried first. In the meantime, I can find a few kind words to say.

But hey if being negative and angry at everything all the time works for you, so be it.

I can be as liberal and as feminist as I want but I still find it sad that many feel that manners and decorum should be set aside because people don’t fit our ideologies or did some awful things. But I guess I’m alone in those feelings.

@Lucia,
I’d say we, as anonymous internet strangers who have never met any of the Bushes, give them a lot of space to grieve. It’s not like we’re standing at the cemetery with “War criminal” signs a la Westboro Baptist Church.
He also got more kind words and far more pomp than most people who have a far less complicated legacy. All in all, I just don’t feel like the Bushes are being wronged here…

But Lucia, no one is saying any of these things at the man’s funeral or to his family! Of course the day he is laid to rest should be only about happy memories for his loved ones, but we are strangers discussing his legacy online. There are completely different standards, IMO.

I don’t feel anonymity on the internet gives me an excuse to speak cruelly. I see your point but I’m a “right mind, right speech, right action” kind of person. Any presidential legacy will be complicated at this point, the Bushes are no different.

As others have said Emperor Zero did NOT want to be there and made it known. Its was v disrespectful that neither of them bothered with the hymn. He wasn’t the centre of attention so he not going to make the effort. The way he waltzed in and then practically threw his coat at the young man was the height of ill manners. He is not comfortable when he’s around proper statesman like people.

Also he sat like he was on his gold toilet waiting for his big mac to reappear!

OMG I’m so glad you said that! THIS exact thought crossed my mind last evening when I saw the pics. I was like, this guy always looks like he’s sitting on a toilet doing his business. I am so glad it’s not just me!

I’m so tired of hearing people say the Michelle Obama/George W. Bush friendship is one-sided. I absolutely adore Michelle and have great respect for her so it drives me crazy that it’s implied she’s faking her fondness for Bush by playing it up for the media. On the contrary, there’s nothing fake about her! Over the years, Bill Clinton and Bush Sr. forged a close bond that lasted until Bush’s death. I don’t see anyone questioning Clinton’s sincerity over their close relationship. I love to see friendships form and thrive despite differing political views…whether you’re a past President,First Lady or a minion like myself!

Don’t forget the part where Bush patted Barack’s butt with a folder to greet him and they had a good little chuckle. I know it’s complicated and I don’t agree with what Bush did, but I do agree with the poster above who said that they are all apart of a very small club that truly knows what it’s like to be president or First Lady and all of the pressure and complications that come from that.
At this point, I’m just so happy to see politicians being nice, respectful and even playful with each other. My state just passed a bunch of BS laws aimed at stopping the incoming governor and AG from being able to do anything so I needed this lol

There’s a rage that’s palpable within this thread. I am willing to listen to the ragers during a time that is not a funeral, but just for today I’d like to leave the politics and comparisons alone to allow for dignity to shine a little bit.

Agreed, Eric. Nobody is saying the reason for their anger should be forgotten. But being respectful even just for the grandkids sake is just a very basic human courtesy. You don’t need to say things you don’t mean, or even praise the man. But think of those who are grieving who did nothing wrong.

The world will be a better place without Trump and people like that. But I will still reserve a little pang of sympathy when Barron is grieving.

I just read that Jon Meacham also spoke at the funeral! I’ll have to watch his eulogy. He gave the keynote commencement address at my college graduation when he was still editor in chief of Newsweek. He was really good and I still remember his biggest piece of advice: Write thank you notes. The WRITTEN kind.

No, this family is evil. Prescott Bush help give rise to to nazis. His bank was directly tide to the Nazi regime up until 1942. George Bush paid an important role in the CIA funding the contra dead squads around latin America and lied the US into the first Iraq war (Gulf War) and then you have George Bush Jr. who also lies the country into a second war in Iraq that kills millions. This family is beyond evil. Please check out The Intercept Podcast on George W. Bush legacy. It’s disgusting.

This is the thing. Say what you will about Bushes, but they still acted with the sort of integrity the democracy requires. No matter the differences in political oppinions and stances on different issues Clintons, Obamas, Bushes demonstrated they are willing to interact and respect each other despite the differences. And I am somewhat content it is displayed on national tv. This is how democracies either work or fail. People despite their irreconcilable differences can send their kids to the same school, laugh at parties or grief at funerals, which is what we see here. Whether what is happening with Trump now political advesaries are made into enemies. This is when the true plurality becomes impossible and democracies die. Just look at how the dynamics changed upon Trumps entering the funeral. This is horrible beyond any party lines.

I know for me personally, I was extremely active during the W years. I have quite a history, which I can’t get into here because I don’t want to be identified. I was extremely politically active, say that. And then going back to HW, what’s interesting is that it was the Thomas hearings and corporate greed that first got me politically active. I went to my first political action in April of 92 the huge pro-choice march on DC. But I had started in 91 writing letters to the editors, then I went door to door for almost a year for the democrats in the 92 election the year of the woman.

But no one ever destroyed my feelings for my family, until Trump. So, this is considered being privileged, because while the bushies were killing people and instituting policies harmful to POC, I was still able to love my white family, And i get that.

Doesn’t change anything for me. I am grieving a lot lately. My mental health is no good anymore. So if I am a microcosm, and I think in some way my experience is (for white liberals)? Then, yeah everything got much worse when trump came to town.

I got a bit choked up seeing a son cry for his dad and I loved Hillary’s fierce ignoring of #babyhandsmcconstipatedface and having read many comments, thanks all. I don’t have anything to add, except that I appreciate all the intelligent, fiery conversations. We need people who don’t forget and don’t allow history revisionism, just like we need compassionate people.

I think W was a terrible president because, for one thing, he didn’t have a clue about anything, and also he trusted that corrupt war-monger Dick Cheney to be the defacto President. He cruised throughout his eight years by being the hero President during and after 9-11 when he rallied the country to do something, anything in response to that terrible day. I wonder what would have happened if 9-11 hadn’t occurred.

This was a nice moment and that fact that GW would even think to do this at his father’s funeral reflects well on him. Michelle Obama is a very special person and good on him for recognizing that and appreciating his connection with her.

I was really moved by George W.’s eulogy for his father. It was a beautiful celebration of his father’s life. George W., not usually known for his eloquence, really did his dad proud. I teared up at the end when he broke down. Having lost my mother and father within a little over a year apart years ago, felt his pain, and I felt the love he has for his dad throughout his touching eulogy.

The only thing that ruined it for me was when the cameras panned out to Trump’s smug mug.

Jon meacham spoke and i love him-he makes great points and speaks well-some historians are not good speakers.
The reference he made to a letter george h. W. Wrote to barbara when he was in the war still gets me
‘I love you precious with all my heart. To know you love me means my life. How lucky our children will be to have you as their mother.’
Just about the biggest compliment you can give

He always looked so dominated by his father, he seemed so respectful. Not a complicated man, he tried to please. Glad he has a chum in Michelle, someone he feels comfortable connecting with, gladly Michelle is very strong.