What is Liberal and Conservative?....The Danish "ghettos" have me confused.

Thanks.....i detest labels. For instance i think abortion is horrid....yet I believe in a womans choice more. To put it biblically, I cant
judge them lest i get judged. Yet the trans people i find intolerable and link them to Sodom and Gomorrah.

I am for locking up illegals like we are doing now, but I feel its a waste of time and money to lock up white collar criminals and petty drug
offenses...because it tears american families apart.

Perhaps its the Sag in me....i just argue each issue as I get it presented to me.
a reply to: FyreByrd

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I find that a lot here in the UK. The wives are not alowed out in public often....and then are fully veiled. The girls are not allowed out at all
and the boys are restricted. I can sorta see why....lots of poles and gippos around....lola reply to: Spacespider

I see more explaining is required... the Denmark that Sanders was refering to, more or less died after the 2016 Danish election.

It's both hard and not so hard to explain how this happened, so I will give it a go.

First the line-up of parties, from very social to very right wing crazy:

Enhedslisten, Denmarks most red party. At one point they could be compared to communists, but have since toned down their retoric and become
more "clean

Socialist Peoples' party, very social, though less communist than Enhedslisten. They have a more balance left wing view on things, but lack
strength because they sit between two popular parties.

Radical Left, they are a mostly a progressive party, and want to sit in the middle, but they are probably the party that speaks out most on
behalf of human rights.

The Alternative, Denmarks most green party. They have very noble aspirations, but are disregarded by most because they actively choose to look
past the classical concept of "growth". They side with the left wing, but can appear right in some cases.

Social Democrats, the party who has taken the sharpest turn towards the right wing out of all parties... most will say they aren't social
democrats anymore. They are more like house broken elitist right wingers... they appear social but I think a lot of them are latent racists to be
honest.

Venstre, a right wing elitist party, but have teamed up with the Social Democrats in a lot of cases when laws have to be passed. Also the
current government party in control, although they are totally depending on the support from atleast two of the other right wing parties.

Conservatives, a silly party... really, I used to be part of them in the youth department... because they had a bar with cheap drinks xD
Anyways, they are selfcentered and borderline racist. But they prefer to appear noble and decent, so the racist card isn't actively played.
Famous quote: "The poor can just save up..." said Mai Mercado when the media asked her about the fact that a ceiling over social benefits would harm
poor families ability to do something as basic as afford a child's birthday (it's normal for kids to invite home their classmates for fun and food and
treasure hunts). Of course the analysis showed that for some there literally was NOTHING to save up once that ceiling was in place....

Liberal Alliance, most useless party in Denmark. They are extremely liberal, and that might appeal to many Americans, but liberalism doesn't
work in a social society... atleast not their version. They have iconic idiots as main parliament figures... I mean, really really idiotic. The type
of people who couldn't be anything else than a politician, because they have no insight and no talent.
Quotes like: "It's the poor's own fault they are poor..." and arguing that the only way to make unemployed people work is by taking away their
benefits and the only way to make rich people perform more and better is by giving them more money...... Yes, their formed Shot Put champion, now
politician really did say that.

Danish People's Party, the 2nd most right wing party in Denmark. They don't like to be called racists, but everything they do and vote for is
blatantly obvious out of racist values. Very populistic in their statements with no real results to show for themselves. They also want to appear as
to be the party that cares most for the elderly, except they have during the last 2 years done SO MUCH to make life worse for pensioners and the
poorest in society... ironically.
But they succeed because they are masters of retoric... I mean, it's insane. They never lose their cool, and you can ask them direct racial related
questions and they can spin it right around and come out with an answer that will make them appear empathic etc. It's crazy!

NOT YET IN GOVERNMENT (Thankfully):

Nye Borgerlige, they are by far the most racist and terrible party currently destroying Danish politics. They weren't ready for the elections
last time, thankfully, but they are aiming for the next election and will probably get a seat or two, but they are f'ing crazy. Racist lying
people.... one of them Mette Thiesen recently involved herself in some slandering facebook posts where she took things out of context regarding muslim
social events, posted it on Facebook and called out that the world was burning up in flames.

If they get in next time, the world will see an even more racist Denmark than it has seen the last two years...... They went as far as saying that
they didn't think Danish Peoples' Party wasn't being hard enough on immigrants.

So... that's the line up.

After the 2016 election we went from a left wing government to a right wing government over night.

The last two years have seen a very targeted effort to hit immigrants and descendants of immigrants. Alas all those efforts tend to hit poor Danes as
well, but the rhetoric manages to target the hatred against the new comers "It's their fault!!!!"...

At the same time these right wingers are increasingly seeking decreasing taxes and mostly to the already rich. I think someone like myself has enjoyed
as much as 1000 dollars in deduction over a year.........wauw....

The cost: less caretakers in kindergardens, kids being stowed into classes meaning too large classes for teachers to be able to focus on all kids
during a lesson.
Our healthcare system has been destroyed with the public hospitals first being forced to offer "treatment guarantee", then cut their funding so they
have to lay off doctors, nurses and handlers, after which, when they can't grant treatment guarantee, we get revised to private hospitals... on the
states bill....
Apart from that, a LOT of hospitals have been closed and centralized as well as other governement workplaces.

They removed somethign we had going called "afterwork pay", which basically enabled people to save up an amount of their salery to enable them to
retire earlier than normal.

AND now they are working on increasing the age of pensioners, meaning that when I get old, I likely wouldn't be able to retire before I'm 70 or 71,
72.....

Dentistry has been destroyed by setting a limit to the amount of visits you are allowed with subsidation during a single year. Meaning, a lot of
people can only go subsidised to the dentist 1 time a year.

They also managed to lower the tax on the most expensive cars, which ofcourse only the rich can buy.

After which they moved on to completely remove bus lines from a lot of rural areas of Denmark, so that you get around 2-3 bus options during one day.
In most populated areas we have a bus atleast every 30 minutes from 6 - 23, and in Copenhagen you can jump on a given bus line every 5 minutes.

All in all, less money to the social parts of the Danish system anymore.

It really has become THAT much worse to be Danish over the last 2 years, and not because of immigrants, but because of a right wing racist
government.

So... the Denmark that Sanders was talking about, really did exist and did so for as long as I can remember, but was put to rest in june 2016. I'm sad
to say.

That is an extremely enlightening and well-written post. So my question is, why did your country do an about face? Were all the social programs
hurting the economic growth? And why the characterization of racism on so many parties? Racist towards whom...immigrants? a certain ethnic
minority? Or non-danes in general? It really does seem the world is rejecting globalism in favor of nationalism... I am not opposed to nationalism
as long as it stays within ones borders. Asking an immigrant to respect their new home s not racist or xenophobic in my view, but a condition of
moving to a new area. I gotta do it now that I live in the UK....why can't everyone?

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I thought this was fake news, but there are many sources reporting it. Denmark has herded its immigrant population into "ghettos" (their
government's term, not mine) and is fixing to impose some pretty harsh laws. For instance, kids over 1 year of age will have to undergo 25 hours of
Danish history and customs so as to be more integrated into society.

First off, "Ghetto" carry a different connotation in Denmark then in the US. This is important. The definition is almost solely about
income/unemployment rates.

Let me show you what is considered a ghetto in Denmark (from my part of town) :

This is Bispeparken in Copenhagen, on of the larger ghettos.

What you might notice is that it is more a couple of apartment blocks than an area of the city

What you might also notice is that while it is not Manhattan-esque, it is not slum, not really low quality. At worst it is just sort of
uninspiring.

In the sommer it can actually be pretty nice though, as there are a fair bit of green areas between the blocks.

I don't think this is what most Americans mean or think of, when they talk about ghettos. And they are being *provided* with the apartments, not being
forced to live in them as the OP implies.

You have to take into account that unemployment benefits for single adults is ranging from $21,000 to $35,000 and that things like education and
medical are free, so while unemployment rates might be high, the poverty rate is not

Granted, non-citizen immigrants are granted only lower benefits and they do have a hard time if they are unemployed. I am sort of embarrassed by it,
but the rationale (and collective Danish fear) is that Denmark will be overrun by migrants if anyone can just show up and demand $30,000/year without
ever having been paying taxes.

Anyway, the thing about "being separated from their parents" is simple daycare.

The idea is that the child needs to learn the language (and basically to socialise), so it can do well in school. But the thing is that many children
of muslim migrants are being kept at home until they start school and then barely speak the language.

(And it is not like the parents are being forced - we just ask something in return for public welfare. Like taking language lessons yourself and give
you child the same opportunity by going to daycare. Quid quo pro. They are free to say no to the welfare checks.)

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Socialism is considered liberal. Danes all pay 50% of their wages in order to maintain their social benefits structure. I think it al kills the
notion of what is left/right.....as defined in the US anyway.

Quite. I have unsuccessfully argued this in lectures in my brief encounter with political science. By US standards even the far right in Danish
politics would be considered more socialist than even the most extreme left in the US.

Thanks for the info. Its always nice to get a residents perspective!! I would be pretty angry if people just turned up for the benefits as well.
It is interesting to see the difference in political ideologies. The US has a deep rooted anglo-saxon work ethic of no worky no eat. Its hard
for even myself to empathise with someone who wont work.

Why the change to a "right" leaning government this time around though? Is the mood changing?

Succesful propaganda.... Danish Peoples party are very good at it. And Venstre is a light version of Trump. They play soft rigth but their minister
Støjberg fx is very hare on immigrants. The main focus being muslims... noone here talks about "evil chinese" workers or those pesky thai
massuses.... even the underbidding polish carpentry workers almost avoid being mentioned... but muslims... evuul!!

Doesnt help also that we have what appears to be a few zionist journalists here and there.... that will immediately turn the public debate to the
right.

Its all very Chomsky-ecsk over here; take away funds from public service, scold public service for not doing a good enough job and then blame the
immigrants.

The government parties all support this because they all get what they want. The racist but so-called socialist parties will accept tax laws and
funding decreases because they will get a yes from the other guys to laws hard on immigrants.

In short to those who are racist hurting 5 immigrants will justify hurting 20 low class Danes as well.
And to those who are like venstre... they can live with supporting racially targetted laws if it means getting tax laws that help the elitist business
people get more money. People who are paying for Venstres party in government.
Again something that helps few and hurts a lot.

I think the unwashed masses of Denmark have awakened to the fact that immigration costs money and may also reduce their safety. So now the politicians
move to the right, and also new politicians appear on the right.

I'd say Nordic countries have a big work ethic too. Working is very important in the Lutheran ethic. But there's also an imperative to take care of
the weak. This has resulted in a knee-jerk openness to immigration. But people will realize that not all immigrants have to be accepted.

Socialism has worked really well in Denmark, because it's a very homogenous country. But when they let new people in, it's no wonder that things are
complicated. Also the economy is is doing worse than before I guess.

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