I just started on the Strongman 5x5 program yesterday- although to be honest, its not very challenging, which is partly because I started at about 30-40% of my 5 rep max weight. Do you guys think this is too basic for someone with experience lifting (although I have been on a hiatus for a few months and lost like 15 pounds)? I want functional strength for mma, and also to gain maybe 15-20 pounds of muscle. Sorry to break the organic vs. caged eggs discussion lolz

It depends, are you squatting 1.5x your body weight? Are you no longer making linear progression on weight with your lifts? If you answer yes to both these questions, then its to basic. If you're still making linear progression on the lifts then stick at it.

Although this product is not related to this thread, it (or a similar product) might be beneficial to anyone interested in the SS program or oly lifts for strength/power in general.

El Macho- I have checked out alot of this starting strength stuff, and rippetoe's stuff, as well as your links. I have also begun to do them and I know there is great worth in focusing on heavy compound exercises. However, it says in the Starting Strength Wiki that it is mainly intended for beginners, but I have been lifting weights for a while, I am just getting back into it again. I think training only three times a week is a little lame. And training the same exercises four times or more a week is also lame- what can I do to make this 5x5 program more challenging?

Maybe actually do the program correctly and lift your 5*5 at the right weights? By the time i finish doing the 5*5 i'm literally a pound lighter from the sweat and looking forward to the 10 mile ride home.

If instead of 'challenging' you meant to say interesting: try crossfit.

Maybe actually do the program correctly and lift your 5*5 at the right weights? By the time i finish doing the 5*5 i'm literally a pound lighter from the sweat and looking forward to the 10 mile ride home.

If instead of 'challenging' you meant to say interesting: try crossfit.

El Macho- I have checked out alot of this starting strength stuff, and rippetoe's stuff, as well as your links. I have also begun to do them and I know there is great worth in focusing on heavy compound exercises. However, it says in the Starting Strength Wiki that it is mainly intended for beginners, but I have been lifting weights for a while, I am just getting back into it again.

Where you lifting correctly? With a program? For a particular purpose? Methodically? When I started back in 91/92 I lifted for 6 years, not knowing exactly what the **** I was doing (even though I thought I did.)

When they refer to beginners, they are referring to time under which one has been lifting with quality AND who have been training and not just "working out" (there is a fundamental difference between these two.) And one of the tale-tells of people not lifting with quality is the absence of squats and deadlifts as their central core of training.

I don't know how you trained, but if you were wondering whether you could substitute leg presses for squats, I have to question how you have been training and for what purpose. I'm not taking a jab at you, but simply telling it for what it is, from experience (because I was on the same boat with the same misconceptions.)

Originally Posted by alienmuaythai

I think training only three times a week is a little lame.

Thinking == opinion.
Opinion =/= fact.

Your opinion is erroneous. But you have been lifting for years, what do we know?

Originally Posted by alienmuaythai

And training the same exercises four times or more a week is also lame-

I guess you know better than individuals such as Mark Rippetoe and the like.

Originally Posted by alienmuaythai

what can I do to make this 5x5 program more challenging?

Challenging? I though the staple of training is working smarter, not harder, under a particular method, with an schedule that includes recovery.

If you want challenge join a competitive sport or something that pits you up against someone else, like powerlifting. Check the material in t-nation.com, or pick up the latest Jay Cuttler's workout from Muscle & Fitness and do it with reckless abandon because there is nothing in this site that can help you find what you are looking for.

The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

RTFM

alienmuaythai, read this. And when I say read this, I mean to really read it.

The reason I'm closing this thread is because it has outlived it's purpose. As much as this forum is kept open for all general questions, this is, in the end, a martial arts/combat sports site.

We cover general health questions, nutrition questions, medicine questions, illness questions, injury questions, power lifting questions, (Olympic) weight lifting questions, conditioning questions, crossfit questions, conditioning questions, strength questions and, when appropriate, muscular development questions given that all of those have direct applicability to martial arts/combat sports. We would also discuss training for size within the context of the methods just explained as well as bodybuilding to the degree that it does not interfere with physical training for martial arts/combat sports.

Having said that, we are not equipped to engage in long, ope n ended time-sink discussions related to increasing one's muscle size. That's primarily a bodybuilding question more suitable of sites such as www.t-nation.com and/or www.extremefitness.com. Beyond a basic discussion on that, that's something that is not going to be covered.

And the main reason for this is that a pure bodybuilding/figure/fitness training plan is generally not compatible or conductive for the performance martial arts/combat sports.

As a result, it would be the last topic to be covered in detail in this forum. The preference will always be on programs like 5x5s, West Side, Starting Strength, crossfit, gymnastics, (Olympic) weight lifting, power lifting, strongman, Ross training and all their derivatives as well as reasonable adherence to these methods (to reduce as much as possible any variables that might interfere with progress.)

Also, and this is clearly documented in the stickies. Do your research. Read. We don't want people asking questions when it's becoming obvious that they are not doing their research.

You can't be asking questions that have already been explained ad nausea either here or at another forum or book exclusively devoted to the topic under discussion.

No, you cannot come here and ask how to change a 5x5 program to make it challenging when it's been explained here and at the StrongLifts forum why you cannot. Either you are not reading, you want the information to be spoon-fed to you, or you are being obtuse, unwilling to do your research, and want to change things that work just because they look lame to you.

This is not an online chat room. Which leads me to the next. If you have an opinion, you better do your best to support it.

If you are going to say that X or Y is lame, you better fucking understand why and be ready to explain it so in a manner that is articulate and with luxury of details.

Saying that something is lame or this or that just because it looks that way to you doesn't cut it here. Explain why and with facts, not opinions. You are not paying attention how we operate. You are not paying attention or you don't care. You are being obstructive and not contributing to anything.

We want people that think and do research so that they can contribute, not open-ended time sinks.

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this “losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it “lusers”).

...

We're (largely) volunteers. We take time out of busy lives to answer questions, and at times we're overwhelmed with them. So we filter ruthlessly. In particular, we throw away questions from people who appear to be losers in order to spend our question-answering time more efficiently, on winners.

...

If you find this attitude obnoxious, condescending, or arrogant, check your assumptions. We're not asking you to genuflect to us — in fact, most of us would love nothing more than to deal with you as an equal and welcome you into our culture, if you put in the effort required to make that possible. But it's simply not efficient for us to try to help people who are not willing to help themselves. It's OK to be ignorant; it's not OK to play stupid.

So, while it isn't necessary to already be technically competent to get attention from us, it is necessary to demonstrate the kind of attitude that leads to competence — alert, thoughtful, observant, willing to be an active partner in developing a solution. If you can't live with this sort of discrimination, we suggest you pay somebody for a commercial support contract instead of asking hackers to personally donate help to you.

...

Open-ended questions tend to be perceived as open-ended time sinks. Those people most likely to be able to give you a useful answer are also the busiest people (if only because they take on the most work themselves). People like that are allergic to open-ended time sinks, thus they tend to be allergic to open-ended questions.

You are more likely to get a useful response if you are explicit about what you want respondents to do (provide pointers, send code, check your patch, whatever). This will focus their effort and implicitly put an upper bound on the time and energy a respondent must allocate to helping you. This is good.

....

There is an ancient and hallowed tradition: if you get a reply that reads “RTFM”, the person who sent it thinks you should have Read The Fucking Manual. He or she is almost certainly right. Go read it.

RTFM has a younger relative. If you get a reply that reads “STFW”, the person who sent it thinks you should have Searched The Fucking Web. He or she is almost certainly right. Go search it. (The milder version of this is when you are told “Google is your friend!”)

In Web forums, you may also be told to search the forum archives. In fact, someone may even be so kind as to provide a pointer to the previous thread where this problem was solved. But do not rely on this consideration; do your archive-searching before asking.

Often, the person telling you to do a search has the manual or the web page with the information you need open, and is looking at it as he or she types. These replies mean that he thinks (a) the information you need is easy to find, and (b) you will learn more if you seek out the information than if you have it spoon-fed to you.

You shouldn't be offended by this; by hacker standards, your respondent is showing you a rough kind of respect simply by not ignoring you. You should instead be thankful for this grandmotherly kindness.

The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris