I decided to look through the comment thread on Hays' cat story FB post, and there are many interesting comments but this one especially caught my eye:

Then Sakyong Mipham rinpoche (smr or the Sawang as he was known then) was kidnapped by Akong Tulku, and he was tortured- locked in a closet & he showed me the scars on his cheek from being whipped with a bamboo whip. I am not sure why CTR & Dianna didn’t go get him immediately. But he was wounded too. Tagi and Gesar both experienced abuse too-now Gesar is an abuser as well. This is the cycle of violence, and I am a victim of it

I don't really know what to make of it but I thought it was worth pointing out. Does anyone know how old SMR would have been at that time?

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

I decided to look through the comment thread on Hays' cat story FB post, and there are many interesting comments but this one especially caught my eye:

Then Sakyong Mipham rinpoche (smr or the Sawang as he was known then) was kidnapped by Akong Tulku, and he was tortured- locked in a closet & he showed me the scars on his cheek from being whipped with a bamboo whip. I am not sure why CTR & Dianna didn’t go get him immediately. But he was wounded too. Tagi and Gesar both experienced abuse too-now Gesar is an abuser as well. This is the cycle of violence, and I am a victim of it

I don't really know what to make of it but I thought it was worth pointing out. Does anyone know how old SMR would have been at that time?

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

I knew Akong Rinpoche for 20 years... believe me, he waa no bully. He did however, put up with a lot of shit amd slander from Shambhala, despite the fact he personally, and quietly, financially supported the Trungpa Tulku and Surmang monastery for years, Shambhala gave them nothing, eventually they realised that having the heritage of Surmang could be a good thing and suddenly started showing an interest.

A good friend of mine who is a student of SMR told me that at one point SMR spent a lengthy period of time chained to a radiator. So I believe this statement is credible, although my friend did not specify if it was Akong who did the chaining. In any case, it's clear that he had an abusive childhood of some sort.

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

I knew Akong Rinpoche for 20 years... believe me, he waa no bully. He did however, put up with a lot of shit amd slander from Shambhala, despite the fact he personally, and quietly, financially supported the Trungpa Tulku and Surmang monastery for years, Shambhala gave them nothing, eventually they realised that having the heritage of Surmang could be a good thing and suddenly started showing an interest.

I do not think so either. Partly because It was from Dianna's biography and she was 16 at the time and from what I understood the bullying was in the form of her washing dishes more often than others and Akong R. returning badly washed dishes to the sink and also Akong demanding Trungpa to dine with others. Kinda sounds like something a 16 year old would call "bullying". But all jokes aside. This is horrible state of affairs.

A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

I knew Akong Rinpoche for 20 years... believe me, he waa no bully. He did however, put up with a lot of shit amd slander from Shambhala, despite the fact he personally, and quietly, financially supported the Trungpa Tulku and Surmang monastery for years, Shambhala gave them nothing, eventually they realised that having the heritage of Surmang could be a good thing and suddenly started showing an interest.

I do not think so either. Partly because It was from Dianna's biography and she was 16 at the time and from what I understood the bullying was in the form of her washing dishes more often than others and Akong R. returning badly washed dishes to the sink and also Akong demanding Trungpa to dine with others. Kinda sounds like something a 16 year old would call "bullying". But all jokes aside. This is horrible state of affairs.

That kind of sounds like victim blaming to me.

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

I knew Akong Rinpoche for 20 years... believe me, he waa no bully. He did however, put up with a lot of shit amd slander from Shambhala, despite the fact he personally, and quietly, financially supported the Trungpa Tulku and Surmang monastery for years, Shambhala gave them nothing, eventually they realised that having the heritage of Surmang could be a good thing and suddenly started showing an interest.

And guess what, even Trungpa's claim he was the supreme abbot of Surmang turns out to be complete bullshit...that would be this guy:

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

I knew Akong Rinpoche for 20 years... believe me, he waa no bully. He did however, put up with a lot of shit amd slander from Shambhala, despite the fact he personally, and quietly, financially supported the Trungpa Tulku and Surmang monastery for years, Shambhala gave them nothing, eventually they realised that having the heritage of Surmang could be a good thing and suddenly started showing an interest.

And guess what, even Trungpa's claim he was the supreme abbot of Surmang turns out to be complete bullshit...that would be this guy:

"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

I honestly finda that hard to believe. This is bit too much. But still shows how f-ing messy the whole situation is. Kinda reminded me of a passage where Dianna says Akong R. bullied her and CTR when they still were in Samye-ling. But still really? This is a horrible mess.

I knew Akong Rinpoche for 20 years... believe me, he waa no bully. He did however, put up with a lot of shit amd slander from Shambhala, despite the fact he personally, and quietly, financially supported the Trungpa Tulku and Surmang monastery for years, Shambhala gave them nothing, eventually they realised that having the heritage of Surmang could be a good thing and suddenly started showing an interest.

This.
Having had first hand knowledge of Akong Rinpoche, CTR, and Diana Pybus I know who I believe.
Believe me Diana Pybus was no victim .

Well, you're basically saying she's delusional or lying so that's kind of like blaming her, isn't it? The point is, that's a standard way to cast doubt on a victim's account.

Point taken. *smile* I am sorry about that.

point taken? I have no clue about the case involved, but this idea that whoever claims to be a victim can therefore never be questioned or faulted with anything is rather absurd. ...

e.g., I thereby claimed that dzogchungpa's "kind-of" accusation of Miroku for victim blaming is traumatizing me, as the words offended my delicate sensitivity...
And, no defense allowed, dzogchungpa, 'cuz I am claiming to be a victim (and while we are at it, female, non-white..etc.) So there!

I decided to look through the comment thread on Hays' cat story FB post, and there are many interesting comments but this one especially caught my eye:

Then Sakyong Mipham rinpoche (smr or the Sawang as he was known then) was kidnapped by Akong Tulku, and he was tortured- locked in a closet & he showed me the scars on his cheek from being whipped with a bamboo whip. I am not sure why CTR & Dianna didn’t go get him immediately. But he was wounded too. Tagi and Gesar both experienced abuse too-now Gesar is an abuser as well. This is the cycle of violence, and I am a victim of it

I don't really know what to make of it but I thought it was worth pointing out. Does anyone know how old SMR would have been at that time?

I was in charge of arrangements for visiting teachers for a major Shambhala city center more than ten years ago when we hosted Zurmang Gharwang Rinpoche. Back when the occasional visiting lama was still welcome. I was baffled by this discrepancy in Supreme Surmang Abbot claims. Surely lamas don't make up shit like that! I was still pretty naive then. What I most remember about the visit was how excited he was about all the comped food he got when we went out to eat at a local Tibetan restaurant, and to show me old Tom and Jerry videos on his phone (streaming video on phones was a new thing).

I was baffled by this discrepancy in Supreme Surmang Abbot claims. Surely lamas don't make up shit like that! I was still pretty naive then.

There's an amusing story in Diana's book about the Karmapa's first visit to Boulder:

Rinpoche (CTR) also asked me to take a drive around Boulder with His Holiness and show him various local landmarks. Rinpoche instructed me that whenever His Holiness admired a building or noted that it was impressive or anything like that, I was to tell the Karmapa that the building belonged to us. I thought this was ridiculous, but Rinpoche insisted. I suppose it was some sort of macho Tibetan thing. His Holiness and I drove all over town, with me telling him that every large building in town, including the Harvest House Hotel and the entire University of Colorado, belonged to Rinpoche and his students. I’m sure His Holiness checked later and learned that we had considerably fewer real estate holdings than I had suggested.

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

I think its important to understand many abusers are victims themselves. "Undiagnosed" victims generally perpetrate the same behavior that harmed them, and then they become abusers, but now they have a low chance of internal rehibilitation because they are not seen as victims anymore, but are seen as objects of judgement, ridicule, etc. they are seen as THE problem, rather than a symptom of the problem.

My dads dad abused him, my moms mom abused her, and they said it goes back farther then that too. Its almost like a lineage in itself.

Samsara is quite dark, there is no happiness here. May we really help everyone become liberated, not one exception.

I see a lot of talk about the problem, but very little talk about a solution. And if you think merely talking about it is the solution, well, the fourth noble truth isnt "talk about it".

Pointing this stuff out is half the battle, what are we as western buddhists going to do now? Because sometimes these topics dont seem to be solution driven. Evidence for that point? 99% of topics like this require a lot of clean up, and end up locked.