Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Maybe getting back to a common sense point of view would help this discussion...

First of all, cannabis is quite a benign drug, much moreso than alcohol and fags to be honest. In the current setup its used to feed gangs with money, the quality is bad and huge garda resources are wasted investigating it, supply etc...

Why not just legalise it and sell it as alcohol and fags are sold, i.e. to over 18 year olds....

I don't really see why this could even be conceived as a bad thing ....

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Maybe getting back to a common sense point of view would help this discussion...

First of all, cannabis is quite a benign drug ....

Not really as the literature shows.

This is from an informative report from the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction:

Cannabis is Europe’s most commonly used illicit drug, with approximately 20 million adults, or around 6% of the population aged 15–64 years, having used the drug in the last year. An indication of the public health impact of the drug can be seen in the numbers entering specialised treatment in Europe for drug-related problems, among whom cannabis is the second most frequently reported drug, after heroin.

Data on users entering drug treatment for cannabis-related problems can also shed some light on high-risk cannabis use in Europe. Among clients who entered drug treatment for the first time in their life in 2011, cannabis use is the most frequently cited reason – and has been since 2008. The number of first-time cannabis clients has risen markedly, mainly since 2008. Currently, cannabis clients represent around half or more of all clients entering drug treatment in five countries (France, Denmark, Cyprus, Hungary and the Netherlands).

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Originally Posted by Sam Lord

I'm not exactly sure how legalisation would affect this problem. After all people in working class areas still buy illegal cigarettes in huge quantities (including smokes of dubious origin) because they are cheaper.

It's obvious, really.

The majority of responsible smokers who now buy from dubious and unregulated sources out on the streets would much rather purchase their personal supplies in an honest, discreet, open, non-stigmatized, and responsible fashion - if they had the legalised and safe choice. A guaranteed legal source where they could visit or congregate, have a cup of coffee or a beer, or simply drop in and out again.

And stop looking over the one shoulder for the drug squad or coppers while looking over their other shoulder to be sure the dealer isn't going to mug them or push other harder dope on them against their will.

But, as you say, even if that was the reality, there's still be a minority of types who'd still mingle with the criminal heavies and buy the the more dangerous street version. But that's just life and life only. There'll always be a criminal element doing criminal stuff, just as people in working class areas are willing to buy cheap foreign spirits and rancid beer from legal outlets like supermarkets and off licenses.

But that still doesn't make all users of marijuana and cannabis criminals in themselves.

It merely illustrates that many ordinary decent people have to take criminal risks to get what they want, and when they do, the risks remain high in that both quality of product and reliability source are dubious and unsafe.

I get the impression that, even with all the information out there, many Irish people still live in the dark ages of presumption whereby all users of all soft drugs - bar the prescriptive kind - are stupid, desperate, criminal shifty types.

This simply isn't true.

Most smokers I know lead otherwise professional and respectable lives. They, like me, feel we're put in a position where we're set up to lose one way or the other.

As the law stands, growing your own has it's risks. Buying from underworld criminals has it's risks. The very stuff you're buying and consuming has it's risks. The places you go to buy it brings risks. Using something you don't really know the actual content of has it's risks.

A few legalised outlets around the cities and towns of Ireland are not going to change the very fabric of Irish society in some over the top hedonisitic way. Irish people are too used to being mammied and handled with kid gloves. We have minds of own, and we ought to be educated and mature enough to use them, rather than continue to taint every citizen with alternative tastes by the criminal brush.

Originally Posted by Sam Lord

Would it be the case that the government would somehow ensure that "good quality skunk" (presumably also of high THC content) would be available at rates cheaper than your average dealer could sell "soapbar"?

Legalisation could viably see to it that a variety of types and strengths could be made available to those who choose to use them responsibly, and price them all accordingly. Content doesn't have to be strong in all strains, some people prefer a milder affectation than others.

One could choose low, medium, or high content according to their specific and personal tastes.

Originally Posted by Sam Lord

How does this tie in with the narrative of all the revenue the government would take in from the taxation of cannabis?

The outlets would be regulated, the amounts sold taxed accordingly, and the tax profit taken on sales used in numerous ways beneficial to society, just like any other business.

I've never known the Irish government to shake it's head at any potential tax earner.

So your report doesnt include fags or drink? I wonder if cannibis causes more harm than those two... or do you think we should ban them too which would just amount to creating a huge criminal an parallel economy.

But lets get to the butt of the situation, are there more cons to cannibis than pros? I dont think so. I think cars are dangerous, so are power plants and crossing the road and living in cities... should all that be banned too? Also, should the state ban everything that is ''bad'' for you? Should the state have any right to interfere in your personal consumption choices? See we have a huge problem in Ireland at the minute, its a culture that the political establishment has promoted and firmly believes in, that of taking choices for people, legislating on personal choices for the ''good'' of the individual...

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Originally Posted by Ogiol

So your report doesnt include fags or drink? I wonder if cannibis causes more harm than those two... or do you think we should ban them too which would just amount to creating a huge criminal an parallel economy.

But lets get to the butt of the situation, are there more cons to cannibis than pros? I dont think so. I think cars are dangerous, so are power plants and crossing the road and living in cities... should all that be banned too? Also, should the state ban everything that is ''bad'' for you? Should the state have any right to interfere in your personal consumption choices? See we have a huge problem in Ireland at the minute, its a culture that the political establishment has promoted and firmly believes in, that of taking choices for people, legislating on personal choices for the ''good'' of the individual...

Cigarettes and alcohol are damaging yes, so why would we want to legalize a third damaging drug which would in all likelihood result in increased consumption of it?

Drugs have an impact not just on the individual but on society in general. Everything can be reduced to a personal choice. I might decide to drive on the wrong side of the road, should I not be pulled over and arrested for doing so?

Aside from very limited medically proscribed situations cannabis has no "upside".

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Cigarettes and alcohol are damaging yes, so why would we want to legalize a third damaging drug which would in all likelihood result in increased consumption of it?

I'm not so sure this is true.

For many, curiosity may induce them to try it out if it's available, but that doesn't mean all of them will continue to use it. Plenty of people avoid marijuana for a variety of reasons, just as many people also avoid using alcohol, cigarettes, or prescriptive pharmaceuticals.

Some people don't enjoy it at all. They may feel uncomfortable, self-conscious, paranoid even. I've seen new-comers try it out and it having a very negative impact on them, with the result they never try it again.

Coffeeshops in Amsterdam for example sell a product called space cake, a bun or a pie with cannabis added. You can spot the first-timers in the coffeeshops quite easily: they buy a cake, eat it, and then start to feel panicky and paranoid. They've no reference for what's happening to them. They rarely try it again.

Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo

Drugs have an impact not just on the individual but on society in general. Everything can be reduced to a personal choice. I might decide to drive on the wrong side of the road, should I not be pulled over and arrested for doing so?

That makes little sense. Of course you should be arrested, you're putting the lives of others in acute and immediate danger by your actions. Having a spliff harms nobody but the smoker - if it harms them at all.

There's no viable comparison there.

Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo

Aside from very limited medically proscribed situations cannabis has no "upside".

I absolutely disagree.

What, for example, is the upside of alcohol? Or cigarettes? Both are legal, plentiful, easily available, relatively affordable, and extremely dangerous to both one's personal health and that of those around you.

Having a spliff harms nobody, not even the user.

Just because the law refers to marijuana as a drug, and an illegal drug at that, doesn't mean that it's true. Marijuana is a perfectly natural plant, it grows freely and plentifully out in the wild - if the conditions are correct.

Alcohol is either brewed or distilled, it contains many additives.

Tobacco grows naturally, but that isn't reflected in the end product, which is generally laced with all manner of dangerous chemicals.

Marijuana, hemp, hashish...all are far cleaner and far less dangerous.

Hemp, as a natural product, has myriad uses - one of the main reasons Randolph Hearst saw to it that it was outlawed in the States many years ago - to protect his financial interests in forestry. Low maintenance high yield hemp could have made his business almost irrelevant, so he used his connections to make the growing of it illegal.

As an aside, I liked the interview Bob Marley gave about weed, or herb, as he calls it.

He mentioned how the drug laws in Jamaica made it illegal for rastafarians to properly carry out their religious rituals, and questioned the motives behind it.

When he asked of the island's authorities why it should be that rastas shouldn't smoke in appreciation of Jah, they replied that it made the user rebel.

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo

Cigarettes and alcohol are damaging yes, so why would we want to legalize a third damaging drug which would in all likelihood result in increased consumption of it?

Drugs have an impact not just on the individual but on society in general. Everything can be reduced to a personal choice. I might decide to drive on the wrong side of the road, should I not be pulled over and arrested for doing so?

Aside from very limited medically proscribed situations cannabis has no "upside".

The flaw of your argument is that if you drive on the wrong side of the road you kill someone else, if you smoke cannabis its only affecting your good self really so that pretty much buries your point . A lot of what we do in the world is harmful but once its only harmful to ourselves and we choose that option its no one elses business really. Cannabis should be used as a tool to create an alternative to the drinking culture which is what people should be advocating.

History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

Originally Posted by random new yorker

Next 10 years could be defined by 'Mining Green Gold'

smart governments will get there first

it has started in the US

It started in the lowlands. Uruguay are there now too. Ireland will not lead the way in anything but turf-cutting. Too many younger'ons emigrating which leaves the older, badly educated and thus manipulable rest....

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

A man who has had both his eyes removed due to glaucoma has handed himself into gardaí with a quantity of herbal cannabis in a protest designed to challenge the law regarding the use of the drug for medicinal purposes.

Mark Fitzsimons (30) has been completely blind for the last five years and believes that by being prosecuted for possession he may be able to avail of free legal aid in order to test legislation.

History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

Re: Ming's weed quest - Cannabis Regulation Bill

US Big Liquor is getting into the weed game in Canada where it becomes legal in October. They can't do this yet in the US, because while individual states have legalized, the Feds are still opposed, and could revoke liquor licenses.

1 green thing: Weed-infused drinks

The markets punished Tesla on Friday when CEO Elon Musk smoked pot on camera with comedian Joe Rogan, but some of the world's largest companies are aggressively embracing the green.

As alcohol consumption around the world keeps falling, big distillers and brewers are putting their money into cannabis-infused, non-alcoholic cocktails, Axios' Erica Pandey writes.

The bigger picture: The world is drinking less alcohol — and that's in part due to the rise of legal weed. Alcohol consumption fell 15% between 2006 and 2015 in U.S. states offering medical marijuana licenses, according to a study by researchers from the University of Connecticut, Georgia State University and Universidad del Pacifico in Lima.

The latest: A string of deals between alcohol companies and cannabis companies illustrates the next big thing in beverages, per CB Insights' Anand Sanwal.

Constellation Brands, an American beer, wine and spirits company, is pouring $4 billion into cannabis company Canopy Growth.

Heineken’s subsidiary Lagunitas is out with weed-infused sparkling water — a collaboration with AbsoluteXtracts, another cannabis company.

Big-time brewer Molson Coors is linking up with The Hydropothecary Corporation to roll out cannabis-infused drinks.

Diageo,the drinks giant behind Smirnoff vodka and Guinness beer, may collaborate with a Canadian cannabis company, per Bloomberg.

As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.