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What would you do........!!!

05-24-2012, 04:19 AM

Got an emergency call today, 21yr old on the sticks of a 7 1/2 tonner. Digging trench for conduits for power, ground absolutely trash. Lots of volcanic floaters amongst the filthy grey waterlogged clay. Anyhow one slip trying to move a floater and bang, ripped a 20mm copper water service. Now with the new Viega thought this would be a good in out scenario but ............!!!!
Water services had been replaced and they had pushed them through the middle of the old steel pipe. Heard about this before but first time in 30+ yrs actually got to the job and gone......??????????????
Dont know how he did it but exposed enough for me to crimp off and stop flow. No idea where the ferrel was located so clled the Wate Corp. God damn got a bloke who was just fantastic. Took one look and said he would take over. Now it is not often I give up but was glad with this one.
However just wantred to put it out there and ask the question, what would you do. Copper tube is fairly neat inside the steel pipe so cutting with pipe cutter would have been too dangerous. The cutter would have pushed through and cut the copper before the steel was separated. Sorry back up a bit, had to go back along pipe approx. 500mm to cut out a crease in the steel which meant cu inside was compromised too. Also needed to get fresh copper to put freeze coupling on. What a nightmare.
Note:- whenever we open road or pavement as a contractor we need to pay permits. The Water Corporations send teams in and they dig. Oh yeah, they reckon they have one big permit(I think it is called an Excavator). They can open up whole roads without anyone blinking an eye. Stuff up traffic flow. One last real serious consideration, main gas supply running in ground close to broken pipe and pretty serious smell in ground surrounding. I was nervous of sparks.

Time and material with a third party to dig would be my route. The galvanized pipe will cause the copper to leak. If I need to sleeve it in the ground I use a pipe sleeve...may be a 4 mill that you slide the pipe into prior to putting in the ditch. I will try to get a model and manufacturer, if you want, later.

Comment

it's very common here for the gas co. to slip line an old steel service with hdpe plastic. but i can't picture how they would have slipped a copper line into a steel water service especially with all the rust and buildup. not to mention the possibility of electrolysis with the metal to metal contact and wet environment.

there is a pipe slitter that would have been able to slit the steel pipe and pull in a new service. similar to trenchless sewer pipe bursting.

a grinder could have scored deep enough to allow for a wrench to twist off the thin wall of steel still connected. i have a grinder with a foot/ shoe that can be adjusted for depth.

rick.

phoebe it is

Comment

Thanks Rick. Thought about the grinder with a sanding disc but the gas smell was scarey. I too have heard of gas companies drawing through nylon. it is not permitted to draw copper buit someone in their wisdom years ago thought it wa a good idea. Personally I would have traced back to the ferrule and renewed but I think when the Water Board caught sight they thought better and took ownership. My reasons for asking are more out of curiosity. I believe the copper will fail most likely due to electrolysis. Thing was I couldnt get a section where I could freeze off. Normally when the boys pull mains we can shut down and repair.
Footnote to Rick:- I had the Veiga ready and waiting, I think I am starting to be converted Rick.
Anyhow we arent allowed to isolate street mains without getting in big trouble. Over here regardless of the fact that we know what we are doing we have to stand by and watch the dams empty waiting for the Authority to shut down. Political.
Also I saw a shut-off tool on the Wheeler Rex site for squashiung off copper tube. Has anyone got one or used this tool. Would really appreciate feedback on how usefull this tool is.
Thanks in advance

Thanks Rick. Thought about the grinder with a sanding disc but the gas smell was scarey. I too have heard of gas companies drawing through nylon. it is not permitted to draw copper buit someone in their wisdom years ago thought it wa a good idea. Personally I would have traced back to the ferrule and renewed but I think when the Water Board caught sight they thought better and took ownership. My reasons for asking are more out of curiosity. I believe the copper will fail most likely due to electrolysis. Thing was I couldnt get a section where I could freeze off. Normally when the boys pull mains we can shut down and repair.
Footnote to Rick:- I had the Veiga ready and waiting, I think I am starting to be converted Rick.
Anyhow we arent allowed to isolate street mains without getting in big trouble. Over here regardless of the fact that we know what we are doing we have to stand by and watch the dams empty waiting for the Authority to shut down. Political.
Also I saw a shut-off tool on the Wheeler Rex site for squashiung off copper tube. Has anyone got one or used this tool. Would really appreciate feedback on how usefull this tool is.
Thanks in advance

I have used someones brand and it worked well. We used packjoint unions to put it together on the underground. If it were not for them we were going to have to get the scuba gear.

Comment

i thought it would shear the pipe, but it worked like a charm. so instead of cutting the copper and then using a tubing cutter to clean the cut to allow for a propress connection while flowing full force, i was able to crimp then freeze.

i guess when the bolt cutters are ridgid, the propress ridgid and the pipe freezer ridgid, all the stars were aligned and ridgid was looking over my shoulders for a near impossible job made possible.

thanks fred

rick.

phoebe it is

Comment

of course i had on my rain suit on and as a backup if the propress would not slide on without losing the oring while flowing full force, i had a piece of 7/8'' rubber dishwasher hose with a shut off ball valve on the other end. i was going to slip the hose onto the copper and hose clamp it on. then shut the valve and then freeze the pipe.

needless to say, my backup plan was never needed. my rain suit stayed dry and i was more impressed with the bolt cutters than the propress or freezer

Comment

Rick, you are one gutsy bloke. propress on a live pipe, awsome............!!!
Reading and contributing here in this forum expands the wealth of knowlege beyond. Still getting used to the new Viega tool(I think it is a propressby anotehr name) and what we can do and how. When I questioned the bolt-cutters the fear is not shutting off and cutting the tube. Will make a point of trying this soon for my own benefit. Will have to wait for the weather to improve but....!!!