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I missed the part where the Open Discussions forum was declared the David Skaggs Right-Wing Axe-Grinding Forum. While it's fine to have an open forum (because off-topic crap is going to get posted, and by having an open forum you at least have somewhere to point to when people post their off-topic crap), I think it's taking it a little far when it's turned into a soapbox for posting diatribes and politically-minded sniping. You can argue that that's "open" as all get-out, but it sure as hell is not a "discussion".

This was filmed around June 19, 2009 at the B. Bernice Young Elementary School in Burlington, NJ.

Lyrics
========
Mmm, mmm, mm!

Barack Hussein Obama
He said that all must lend a hand [?]
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mm!

Barack Hussein Obama
He said we must be clear today
Equal work means equal pay
Mmm, mmm, mm!

Barack Hussein Obama
He said that we must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance
Mmm, mmm, mm!

Barack Hussein Obama
He said Red, Yellow, Black or White
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mm!

Barack Hussein Obama
Yes
Mmm, mmm, mm!

Barack Hussein Obama

segue to

Hello, Mr. President we honor you today!
For all your great accomplishments, we all [do? doth??] say "hooray!"
Hooray Mr. President! You're number one!
The first Black American to lead this great na-TION!
Hooray, Mr. President something-something-some
A-something-something-something-some economy is number one again!
Hooray Mr. President, we're really proud of you!
And the same for all Americans [in?] the great Red White and Blue!
So something Mr. President we all just something-some,
So here's a hearty hip-hooray a-something-something-some!
Hip, hip hooray! (3x)

The Liberals would have went ballistic if this had happened with George Bush.

David

If you don't like America of today. THEN SIMPLY LEAVE. Just leave, it's that simple.

Ah, but the Belgium military and its many successes is funny to us, as long as we're making insults.

Actually, the last 3 posts seem to have deviated into insulting issues. It would have been nice if the topic could be debated.... obviously, the descent to off-topic innuendo seems to be the trendy rebuttal when facts are short.

I missed the part where the Open Discussions forum was declared the David Skaggs Right-Wing Axe-Grinding Forum. While it's fine to have an open forum (because off-topic crap is going to get posted, and by having an open forum you at least have somewhere to point to when people post their off-topic crap), I think it's taking it a little far when it's turned into a soapbox for posting diatribes and politically-minded sniping. You can argue that that's "open" as all get-out, but it sure as hell is not a "discussion".

I missed the part where you were required to read all the posts in the Open Discussion forum.
Just sayin.

Quote:

Salim Shaw wrote:

If you don't like America of today. THEN SIMPLY LEAVE. Just leave, it's that simple.

While I support the RIGHT of people to 'vote with their feet', the idea that "It's America, Love IT or Leave IT" is as stupid and ridiculous today as it was when the conservatives started saying it. If you truly think that such is an attitude is 'American' in any sense, you ought to go back to Civics class. This coming from a guy who left it a long time ago.

Ah, but the Belgium military and its many successes is funny to us, as long as we're making insults.

Actually, the last 3 posts seem to have deviated into insulting issues. It would have been nice if the topic could be debated.... obviously, the descent to off-topic innuendo seems to be the trendy rebuttal when facts are short.

Mike Sigman

Didn't exactly mean as an insult, but ok. By the way, the Belgian military is a joke even to Belgian folks. I read a few months ago that more than 50% of the Belgian army is overweight

Ah, but the Belgium military and its many successes is funny to us, as long as we're making insults.

Fact is that most Europeans that think they understand American politics actually don't. It's almost like it's on a different continent or something.

To illustrate: most people in Holland were in favor of Obama, but had little knowledge of his ideas about gay marriage, euthanasia, social security, etc. They just kind of assumed he subscribed to the ideas of the average Dutchman...

Fact is that most Europeans that think they understand American politics actually don't.

Maarten: I just realized the above may seem to imply that you do not understand American politics. That is not my intention.
Rather, I agree with you that American politics is strange to us Europeans, because it looks a lot like European politics, but in fact it isn't:
- No European country is as powerful as the USA. The EU would qualify, if it weren't that divided.
- In the USA nobody wants to be called a 'socialist'. Most European countries have a 'Socialist Party' and those are not extremist.
- Most (if not all) European countries have embraced the concept of a social welfare state. In the USA they have the American Dream.
- etc.

I just know enough of American politics to know I really don't have a clue.

Maarten: I just realized the above may seem to imply that you do not understand American politics. That is not my intention.
Rather, I agree with you that American politics is strange to us Europeans, because it looks a lot like European politics, but in fact it isn't:
- No European country is as powerful as the USA. The EU would qualify, if it weren't that divided.
- In the USA nobody wants to be called a 'socialist'. Most European countries have a 'Socialist Party' and those are not extremist.
- Most (if not all) European countries have embraced the concept of a social welfare state. In the USA they have the American Dream.
- etc.

I just know enough of American politics to know I really don't have a clue.

The UK used to have a socialist party known as Labour, after it was branded New Labour it distanced itself from the old idealist positions of the left of its party, embracing the Thatcherite policies of the right established in the eighties. We now have 2/3 main parties fighting over the centre ground, none of them wanting to be seen as left or right in extreme. What we are left with is an incoherent babble about 'my party' being 'better managers' than the others.

I agree Joep, US politics is confusing to us europeans, but our own politics is confusing to us too!

regards,

Mark
p.s I can't imagine anything worse than a cult of personality of say Brown, Sarkozy or Merkel

I think this is in reference to the supposed 'death panels' in health care reform, & the idea it is more cost effective to let the elderly die rather than waste money to treat them for a short time.

Euthanasia is not letting someone die because that's cheaper than treatment. Euthanasia is allowing people to choose to end their life, because they suffer from a terminal illness and see no point in prolonging their suffering.

When my daughter started school they had a president of George Bush up on the wall. Because he was the president.

There is a photo of Barack Obama on the wall now. Because he is the president.

In a few years (or maybe a few years plus four) the picture on the wall will change. Because there will be a new president. Who knows, maybe it will be Glen Beck. Or Al Franken. Then in either case the wringing of hands will be audible from space...

There will always be those who are more enthusiastic and go overboard in admiration or dislike of the president. Obama seems to bring out more of the extremes.

But some comparisons are more like the SNL vid where they lampooned Glenn Beck's logic. Grabbing individual incidents and drawing comparisons to state-mandated central governmental institutionally controlled policies of Soviet Russia or Maoist China is simply absurd. I had the bad timing to spend way too much time in college studying the incredibly complex Soviet political system (only to watch it fall later). And making this sort of comparison is much like pointing to a couple piles of dirt in a backyard in the flatlands and saying "hey, look, it's higher right there than ground level -- there is a new mountain range in Iowa!"

FWIW on a related note my daughter listened to the President's speech to kids. I asked her about the message (work hard, study, stay in school, try to help) and she said "You think? Isn't that what we're supposed to do anyway?" (You have to have a daughter into Hannah Montana to get the "you think?" reference.)

Euthanasia is not letting someone die because that's cheaper than treatment. Euthanasia is allowing people to choose to end their life, because they suffer from a terminal illness and see no point in prolonging their suffering.

Yes, I know. But if you read the stories provided in the links, the term 'Euthanasia' is used.

This morning, a person driving a huge SUV with a Palin bumper sticker, ran a red light right in front of me. It crashed right into a Prius that had just started out into the intersection because the light was green. The SUV fled the scene without waiting for the cops to show up.

Obviously, since the driver is a supporter of Palin, Palin herself must be a poor driver. Moreover, Palin must also encourage people to disregard responsibility in such situations.

Sound familiar?

Of course, you would probably want to tell me that the driver's actions are not the responsibility of Palin and that they cannot reflect either negatively or positively on Palin. I would agree with you.

So how can it be that Obama is suddenly responsible for the actions of a teacher in an elementary school? Simply put, they can't. We cannot hold Obama responsible for the actions of every teacher throughout the US. To try to do so would be insane.

That's not to say that the actions of that teacher and to some extent even the school ought not to be scrutinized. No, indeed they should. However, we should be sure to see the whole picture before we go too deeply.

Fact: The event occurred during National Black History Month. The election of our nation's first African-American President obviously would warrant attention during such a week. It was a tremendous achievement.

Fact: Children in grade school do sing songs about presidents. My son in second grade did a whole class performance on our nation's presidents. Regardless of the perceived success/failure of his time in office, Obama's name will forever be linked with Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and the other great presidents, simply because of what he represents by being the first black president.

Now this doesn't mean that we should not criticize him. No, we must. We must find fault with his actions and his decisions whenever we can. However, trying to hold him to task because of this song is childish. In short, it just isn't logical.

So how can it be that Obama is suddenly responsible for the actions of a teacher in an elementary school? Simply put, they can't. We cannot hold Obama responsible for the actions of every teacher throughout the US. To try to do so would be insane.

That's not to say that the actions of that teacher and to some extent even the school ought not to be scrutinized. No, indeed they should. However, we should be sure to see the whole picture before we go too deeply.

(snip)

Now this doesn't mean that we should not criticize him. No, we must. We must find fault with his actions and his decisions whenever we can. However, trying to hold him to task because of this song is childish. In short, it just isn't logical.

I agree with these two parts of your post. If it was only one silly song from the teacher at that school then no problem, discipline the teacher and move on.

It is not one teacher in one school.

David

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler

This morning, a person driving a huge SUV with a Palin bumper sticker, ran a red light right in front of me. It crashed right into a Prius that had just started out into the intersection because the light was green. The SUV fled the scene without waiting for the cops to show up.

Obviously, since the driver is a supporter of Palin, Palin herself must be a poor driver. Moreover, Palin must also encourage people to disregard responsibility in such situations.

Sound familiar?

Of course, you would probably want to tell me that the driver's actions are not the responsibility of Palin and that they cannot reflect either negatively or positively on Palin. I would agree with you.

So how can it be that Obama is suddenly responsible for the actions of a teacher in an elementary school? Simply put, they can't. We cannot hold Obama responsible for the actions of every teacher throughout the US. To try to do so would be insane.

That's not to say that the actions of that teacher and to some extent even the school ought not to be scrutinized. No, indeed they should. However, we should be sure to see the whole picture before we go too deeply.

Fact: The event occurred during National Black History Month. The election of our nation's first African-American President obviously would warrant attention during such a week. It was a tremendous achievement.

Fact: Children in grade school do sing songs about presidents. My son in second grade did a whole class performance on our nation's presidents. Regardless of the perceived success/failure of his time in office, Obama's name will forever be linked with Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, and the other great presidents, simply because of what he represents by being the first black president.

Now this doesn't mean that we should not criticize him. No, we must. We must find fault with his actions and his decisions whenever we can. However, trying to hold him to task because of this song is childish. In short, it just isn't logical.

--jimbo

Actually, your example isn't logical. And for me the issue isn't holding Obama 'to task', but the teacher & her school, & all those that find this behavior acceptable. Would the teacher of acted this way if Obama would have not existed, no of course not because she directly refers to Obama & has Obama posters all over the place - so in that respect Obama is responsible, but the person leaving the scene of an accident would STILL behave that way, whether Palin existed or not.

I agree with these two parts of your post. If it was only one silly song from the teacher at that school then no problem, discipline the teacher and move on.

It is not one teacher in one school.

David

Really? How many? 5 schools? 10? A hundred?

Still, wouldn't that be like a drop in the bucket compared to the number of schools in the entire US? Making any sort of a conclusion based upon so few cases is, at least, a hasty generalization from which you suggest a slippery slope with your fears of the US becoming like some dictator run regimes.

Actually, your example isn't logical. And for me the issue isn't holding Obama 'to task', but the teacher & her school, & all those that find this behavior acceptable. Would the teacher of acted this way if Obama would have not existed, no of course not because she directly refers to Obama & has Obama posters all over the place - so in that respect Obama is responsible, but the person leaving the scene of an accident would STILL behave that way, whether Palin existed or not.

I accept your criticism of my example. You are correct, but my point was simply to ask how Obama is expected to be held accountable for the actions of a school teacher he has probably never met or even heard of. In that way, my example fits perfectly.

And, of course, you leave out the fact that she refers to Obama (who does exist) not simply because he is the leader of our country, but that he is the FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN leader of our country. This is a rather important fact, I think. After all, it was National Black History month.