Republicans – Pros and Cons

February 7, 2008 — Chris

I am an absolute, dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, though only by default. I’d vote Socialist if we had a viable socialist party in this country. As it is, I don’t find the Democrats liberal enough, but they’re what I have, so I deal.

I’m going to write two essays. One on the Republicans and one on the Democrats. My goal is to write what I think are the pros and cons of each of the two parties, and thus perhaps show better WHY I consider myself a Democrat (beyond not being able to really be a Socialist).

In this endevor, I’m going to try to be fair and balanced, as it were. I’m going to put what I consider to be honest failings with the Democrats and honest successes with the Republicans. I’d be interested to hear what people think of this. Here goes.

The Republican Party (aka: the Grand Old Party, or GOP, this despite the fact that the Democractic Party is older), sprang up in the mid-1800’s as an abolitionist party. The party grew fast and, after only a few years, had their first president, one Abraham Lincoln. Over the years the party went from being a party of civil rights, populism and a fair-shake for the worker, and became what it is today; a hidebound group of rich WASPs (with a few token Jews and Catholics allowed), who obsess over what they think are high taxes, and put capitolism before anything else. They’re in an alliance with extreme religious elements who want desprately to turn this country into a theocracy. This alliance seems at long-last to be falling apart, but it’s been surprisingly sturdy for quite a while now.

Despite this, I find some pros with the Republican Party.

PROS:

1. The Republicans want to keep government out of your private life. In theory, at least. Under this logic they should be avid supporters of Lawrence v Texas, but this appears to not be the case. Still, I can agree with the basic idea.

2. They are stronger on illegal immigration. I’m not blind to the notion that we have about 12 million people here illegally and can’t possibly give them all deporation hearings. By the same token, I’m not big on a general amnesty. Something that comes short of that, giving the illegals perhaps permanent resident status with no chance for citizenship, and even that only after they pay heavy fines, learn English, etc. I think that’s something the Republicans are far more likely to get behind.

3. My favorite historical president, Theodore Roosevelt, was a Republican, though only barely, and by today’s standards he’d be a moderate Democrat. Nevertheless, this is a pro.

4. The GOP ended slavery. Lincoln spearheaded the war against the South and won. True, that was more about preserving the Union, and he said that he would’ve left every slave in chains if that was what it took to keep the country whole, but despite that they are the ones who finally ended slavery for millions of blacks while the Democrats did nothing.

5. They are, at least in theory, the party of fiscal responsibility. Of not spending more than we earn. This doesn’t happen in reality, but it’s a nice thought.

CONS

1. The GOP is massively entangled with the religious right (though often they are neither religious nor right). As a result of this, they are extremely bigotted. Consider the anti-gay attitudes put forth by many of them. Yeah, Democrats sometimes aren’t much better, but they are a little better, and the odds of things changing positvely for the gays are far greater with the Democrats than the Republicans.

2. Also because of this entanglement, they’re heavily against abortion, for the most part. There are notable exceptions who favor a woman’s right to choose, but most decry it at every chance. This is annoying, stupid and ironic because…

3. They favor abstinence-only sex-education. Right. Yeah, that’s smart. Teach kids nothing at all about birth-control, then do everything you can to force them to have a baby they aren’t ready for when the inevitable happens. It’s even worse if the kid in question is gay, cause they won’t get any information about safe gay sex. Even worse are the lies these groups often spread when giving the education to kids, doing things like inflating the levels of condom failure. It’s no coincidence that kids who go through these kinds of education only stave off sex for a few months longer than those who don’t, and when they do start having sex are far less likely to use protection.

4. “We hate goverment! It doesn’t work! It’s a bad, awful thing! Now, vote me into government!” This pretty well speaks for itself. As has been observed by many, the Republicans talk about how government is a miserable failure, then get elected into office and prove it.

5. Their current civil-rights record is, at best, spotty. Sure, there’s prominent minorities in the GOP (I hestiate to use the word “token”, but it does present itself), but I think it’s very telling that the candidates they had up for president this year were all white men. True, so were most of the Democratic candidates, but they also included a hispanic who has dropped out of the race, and a mixed-race man and a woman , one of whom will be the nominee. The GOP talks about being the party of Lincoln, but they don’t really show it.

6. The constant desire to teach intelligent design to kids in school. Look, there’s NO real scientific controversy over the Theory of Evolution. None. There’s reams upon reams of evidence in support of it versus zero (0), in favor of intelligent design. Even the idea of “teaching the controversy” is stupid. First, there really isn’t a controversy as far as science is concerned, and second, there aren’t always two equally valid sides to every arguement. If you’re going to teach ID and evolution, then don’t you need to teach the idea that slavery was just fine, and perhaps the Jews deserved what they got? After all, those are two different sides!

7. Ignoring the poor. No, Kanye, George Bush doesn’t hate black people. What he hates, or at least doesn’t like and ignores, is the poor. Rich black people didn’t suffer as much at the hands of Katrina as poor white people did. Really, the only color the GOP worries about is green.

8. In addition to intelligent design, the Republicans are very anti-science. Consider embryonic stem-cell research. This would be research done on embryos that are going to be destroyed anyhow. Fertility clincs make these things by the gross. If they’re going to be gotten rid of, shouldn’t it be to a good purpose? Besides, from a simple numbers point of view, if it took elimination of a few embryos to derive cures for cancer, AIDS, etc, I’d be the first there with the knife (well, if I had any scientific skill, which I don’t). They talk about the sanctity of human life, and how killing a few for the good of the many is a bad thing. Explain Iraq, then?

10. First in war, last in peace. Even when they win a war, like in Iraq, they screw up the peace badly. They seem to like the idea of spreading democracy, and incidentally Christianity, by the sword, but don’t usually like what happens when this fails and, at least in Iraq, have in general simply soldiered on, making the same mistakes over and over again. Yes, things are getting better there, but they shouldn’t have gotten this bad to begin with.

11. Thanks at least in part to the GOP, we’re one of the only major countries left with a death penalty, and boy, do we like to use it! True, the Democrats aren’t as vocally against it as I’d like them to be, but at least they aren’t as enthused by it as the Republicans are.

12. Almost entirely due to the Republicans we don’t have Single Payer Universal Health Care like the rest of the civilized world has. We should. There’s no excuse for why we don’t, aside from money. Again, the Democrats haven’t pushed this as hard as they should, and don’t look likely to this year, but at least we’re going to probably end up with some sort of Universal Health Care, which we won’t ever have if the GOP is in office. They apparently have this mixed-up notion that it’s perfectly fine to make people choose between having a place to live and dying. That it’s ok to have people ending up bankrupt because of medical bills. They probably weren’t good people, anyhow.

13. The GOP, especially during the last several years, has viewed the entire world in black or white. “You’re either with us, or against us.” They have no concept of nuance, or reality. Instead they shout, “Onward, Christian soldiers!”, and expect the rest of the world to get out of our way. As far as they’re concerned, the Muslim terrorists have no legitimate gripes and simply want to destroy us because they “hate freedom”. This is a half-truth at best, and we need to understand what our enemies want and what motivates them if we want to end these conflicts. Simply killing them en masse won’t work, because there’s always more to come.

14. George W at one point during a meeting in 2005 was alleged to say the Constitution was just a “goddamned piece of paper”. I don’t know if he actually said that or not, I’m willing to believe he probably did. He certainly seems to live up to the notion. What else explains the PATRIOT Act, the warrantless wiretaps, the prison at Gitmo, the use of torture, etc? True, we’re fighting a war against a real nasty enemy, but we didn’t use those tactics when we fought the combined forces of the Germans, Italians and Japanese during WWII. In fact, there were Japanese soldiers and officers who used waterboarding on our troops during the war. We put them on trial for this. How can we justify using this technique now? You can make arguements about the “ticking time-bomb” scenario, I suppose, but to that I say, “We live in the real world, people. This isn’t an episode of 24.” I think tortue should be illegal under all circumstances. In the highly unlikely “ticking time-bomb” scenario, I would expect the interrogator to do whatever they need to in order to stop the bomb, or whatever, from going off. In return, I’m sure they’d get a pardon and the thanks of a greatful nation. But I digress.

15. Basically, the GOP is scared of freedom. Oh, they like freedom for themselves, but when it comes to freedom for others they get twitchy. That’s why they advocate things like censorship, the anti-flag burning amendment, want a return to prayer in schools, want hightened security, stronger law-and-order, less forgiveness and more revenge.

16. Ultimately what really grinds my gears about the GOP is the hypocrisy. They talk about their love of freedom, smaller government and more fiscal responsibility, but they sure don’t show it. Even the religious side talks endlessly about God’s love, but they focus only on his revenge. It’s really sad.

The party of Lincoln and TR is virtually unrecognizable. If they don’t start to get their act together, and soon, they could wind up splitting into one extreme-right wing, neo-con style party and one more moderate sort of party; the kind people like McCain and Goldwater could support (those are the two I mention… guess what state I live in?). There are good things about the Republican Party, as I’ve said, but there’s lots of bad things, too. Some of that can change if they ditch the religious right, some of it is just built-in. All of it is why I’m likely never going to vote for a Republican.

45 Responses to “Republicans – Pros and Cons”

And leave the war in Iraq alone, for god’s(nay, badger’s) sake. It may be a political quagmire, but we’re winning the actual war. You know, the one that actually takes place beyond the cameras and pictures of coffins? We’re rebuilding and enriching lives there in Iraq. The ones that want to be better off at least. For those that don’t, well… We don’t have the best trained military in the western world for nothing, amirite?

The ways I see it. Money makes the world go ’round, so why not be concerned with it? As for all the sex/abstinence/ID talk, I generally agree with you. Even though you’re a commie heathenblood.

We won the actual WAR in Iraq some time ago. Where we messed up horribly, and continue to barely stagger along, is in the peace. As far as enriching the lives of the people there, I’m not clear as to how tens of thousands of dead civilians equals enrichment, but ok.

And your comments on how we have the best trained military in the world do, I feel, lend weight to some of my statements earlier about Republicans. :)

Tens of thousands of dead civilians, killed by their own countrymen. Surely countries that have spent the last 10,000 years doing nothing but killing themselves on a grand scale is harmless, given that the technology being produced isn’t at all going global, oh wait it is… hmm, The simple fact that the very first election in iraq had a bigger turnout then the past 10 united state’s elections should tell you something, and they were under threat by, again, their own countrymen. When a nation of people risk their lives to vote for democracy, well, I think they’re ready for change. The only reason we’re stalling up now, is because the democrats have the audacity to decry this war, which is now being decried on a national level, by likeminded fools. The kind who love their freedoms but have no mind to try and protect them, the second things get fuzzy, “Oh nooooooez, that was a bad idea, we’re bad, bad people, and our graves are overflowing with the bodies of our own soldiers, even though the war has lasted over 6 years and our body count is not even close 10,000″ Yes, I find it maddening that I myself have to lower our soldiers to a statistic, but when it’s all the democrats see or acknowledge it has to be done.

And we enrich by rebuilding. Like all the money we use to build them schools, and new mosques, and new hospitals, and replenish their knowledge by buying them books.

Peace? Lol, there can be no peace when the enemy we face has no country to become peaceful with. As long as they wish to hide in their own places of worship and pick us off, we should continue to call this war. The only thing we have failed at, is uniting as a country. This war would be long over if we distributed soldiers fast enough, but no, we can’t be bad folks now, can we? We must appear “awesome” in the eyes of the public, else we’ll never be respected again! Cry me a river dems!
Cry me a river, while I punch you all the in the tummies!

There is absolutely no evidence that immigrants – illegal or not – don’t WANT TO LEARN English. The second generation always does. Perhaps if we made that a bit easier it wouldn’t take them so long, huh?

This is certainly true. Throughout my years of working in customer service/food service industries, especially in southern California and in Arizona, I’ve met any number of people who’ve come from other countries and spoke languages other than English, who’ve put forth great effort to learn our language, and I say more power to them!
On the other hand, I think about some of the people I waited on while working at Circle-K in California. People who would come into my store daily for over a year-and-a-half. These were people who when I started working there didn’t understand simple questions like “Do you need a bag?” and when told their totals would just give me a blank look and hold out a handful of money. By the time I’d left nothing had changed, and that’s just sad. I know if I lived somewhere where English wasn’t the primary language, I’d at least learn some basic words and the numbers 1 – 100, just to cover my own butt.

But you suggest making it easier for them to learn it. Ok, how? The best thing I could think of would be entirely unConstitutional (banning all foreign-language media in the United States. As Arnold Schwarzenagger pointed out, you won’t learn English if you’re getting all your information in your native language, and he’s someone who would know).

What other ways could there be? Free English classes? You can already get those in most major cities, and there’d be a great hue and cry were the government to provide it.

Repeated punches to the tummy? I know basic spanish, and I don’t even need to learn it. I picked it up while working my first job, it’s not like we can make them learn, they need to want to learn. So hurt ’em ’till they want to learn.

Bro you are a little to radical; granted that is nothing new with you all out republicans. Your views about the war make my stomach turn, such views make me feel pretty good that the states are being led with a more democratic view. and for the go back to Russia comment, some views of theirs make way more sense than the radical “god’s will” and hypocritical propaganda yall hide behind.

In my opinion, Democrats are the way to go! Instead of focusing on just one topic, they focus on all. In the end, they are the only party that actually achieves their goal. Both of ya guys are darn wrong!!!!!!

Actually, I don’t think either party focuses on just one topic, though they clearly have their favored ones. I do think that since the Democratic position is less enveloped in emotion and more in logic and the real world, it tends to be more successful.

personally i dont think you can be 100% dem. or rep. you need to actually look at the issues and determine what you think is right.
this is a simple observation but ive noticed that younger people tend to be more democrat (liberal). the reason they are so liberal is because they have a unrealistic view of the world. they think that we should help starving kids in poor countries and save the whales when we kill millions of unborn kids here in america. hypocritical? thats not to say that we should be completely unwilling to help the less fortunate, all im saying is look whats wrong here in our own country.
liberals (democrats) want to give more money to middle class people. but in order to do that the government has to take more money from people in the above-mid class. so basically… they’re trying to make us all equal. THATS COMMUNISM!!! if a man/women has a good job or business going for them, the government is going to take their money and give it to people who have a less important or difficult job? people who work for the state/city sign up for a basic 9-5 job and get paid lower than what they want. the reason is that they want the government to take care of them, they dont want to go out on their own and start a business because they are so used to the “easy way out”. their is nothing wrong with working for the government, you just shouldnt be able to receive money from people who go out and make more than you.
but you wanna know the best part about the liberals? WELFARE!!! i go to my job, EARN my money, receive my income and help provide for people who dont even work! WHERE IS THE STRIVE TO GET BETTER?

1: You have it all wrong, with all due respect. Communism is when everyone is equal, yes, but to the point where a janitor and a doctor make the same amount of money. Very little, too. All the money belongs to the dictator/president. Democrats just want everyone to be able to be cared for when they’re sick/injured when some can’t support themselves (A.K.A ObamaCare).
2: That “observation” doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
3: It’s probably not they’re fault they can’t work. Why? Because most executives of giant companies like McDonalds save their jobs for mostly immigrants. Why? So they could pay them less money than someone who’s literate and who’s from this country. These poor people have no choice, and probably do want to start a new life without welfare supporting them.

1: You have it all wrong, with all due respect. Communism is when everyone is equal, yes, but to the point where a janitor and a doctor make the same amount of money. Very little, too. All the money belongs to the dictator/president. Democrats just want everyone to be able to be cared for when they’re sick/injured when some can’t support themselves (A.K.A ObamaCare).

2: It’s probably not they’re fault they can’t work. Why? Because most executives of giant companies like McDonalds save their jobs for mostly immigrants. Why? So they could pay them less money than someone who’s literate and who’s from this country. These poor people have no choice, and probably do want to start a new life without welfare supporting them.

3: Abortions. They kill babies sure, but they didn’t “protect” themselves because they were never taught about condoms since your party supports schools that teach about abstinence, or no sex. These kids don’t find out until it’s too late.

Augie, I agree with your sentiments, and I think you’ve got some good points, but let me try and clarify some things:
1- you’re right that he’s using the word communism wrong. A more nuanced way of saying it would be to point out that (idealized) communism allocates equal funds regardless of type of employment from a central power. In other words, what you said, but with a few more syllables. ^w^

2- The sentiment is understandable, but there’s not much documentation of immigrants being used in large corporations to supplant skilled employees. In fact, immigration supplies upward mobility (on an economic scale) to the citizens of the country they immigrate to. immigrants don’t steal jobs, they provide a job-creating force. for historical examples, look at the job statistics from the asian immigrant boom in seattle and san francisco in the 1800’s. It’s a great example because at one point immigration from china was cut off or heavily restricted in I believe California by law, and the economy suffered as a result.

3- Absolutely right, but also beyond that. Abortions are mostly had by pregnant women who would be unable to give a child the love and care it needed to thrive – either due to economic reasons or because of an oppressive social/cultural/personal environment. Children in those circumstances and those who are placed in the foster system from a young age are both at a hugely increased risk of juvenile delinquency, drug addiction, and a lifetime of commiting criminal offenses. There’s a reason crime has steadily dropped since Roe v. Wade, so beyond the emotional, there are sound logical reasons why as a society we should endorse the right of women to choose for themselves what is best for them.

I wouldn’t have believed you were twelve if you hadn’t said so. Good job!

You assume everyone who is on welfare is a lazy slob who has no desire to be off welfare. This is far from true. Every single person I have known who has been on various forms of welfare (food stamps, GAU, unemployment, etc), including myself, have wanted to get off it and have a better life, if for no other reason than the fact that welfare doesn’t pay well. The image of the “welfare queen” is as popular as it is infrequent.

liberals (democrats) want to give more money to middle class people. but in order to do that the government has to take more money from people in the above-mid class. so basically… they’re trying to make us all equal. THATS COMMUNISM!!!

So someone who has gotten wealthy because of living in this country shouldn’t have to pay a larger portion of their income than someone who is impoverished? If this country has made you rich, you owe it an obligation and should pay more than those who have yet to benefit from the greatness of this nation. It’s not communism (which doesn’t allow people to be rich. This country does).

they think that we should help starving kids in poor countries and save the whales when we kill millions of unborn kids here in america.

Frankly, I’m indifferent to whales. Sure, they’re kind of interesting and we should avoid making them go extinct, but ultimately they’re just animals, and I’d happily kill every one of them to save the life of one AIDS infected crack addict.

As for the starving children, what, should we allow them to starve? No, clearly not. What we should do is help their countries to become more self-sufficient and grow more food. Plus we need to stop propping up petty dictatorships simply because they say they are willing to fight terrorism (at least other people’s terrorism. They’re ok with their own).

As for the abortion question, I do plan to write an article on the subject soon. Highlights? They aren’t humans until they have real brain activity. Delta waves, I believe it is. Until then? No. Besides, childbirth is very dangerous. I’d much rather kill a potential life than force a woman to risk her real life by giving birth.

Chris, I know more people who take advantage negatively than positively. Welfare is incentive to not work. For those who do get off the system, what is the recidivism rate for returning? When you say, I quote “Every single person I have known who has been on various forms of welfare (food stamps, GAU, unemployment, etc), including myself, have wanted to get off it and have a better life, if for no other reason than the fact that welfare doesn’t pay well”, has higher education struck your mind? Trade school, Voc Rehab, apprenticeship? If you want a better life, how is higher wages through welfare going to help? Won’t that make people more dependent?
To continue, someone who got wealthy in this country didn’t get rich because of the country, but by hard work and sacrifice. This country was founded on freedom. If not for those who gave everything they had so others could think and create freely, where would we be? A book called “The 5000 Year Leap” can give you a better narrative than I can. But the only obligation I have to America is to work hard and create. Whether it’s a commodity, an idea or an application we all owe it to those who died for this great experiment to quit whining and get to work. Taxing the rich is taking money from those who create to those who just chose to exist… In other words, you have an empty room in your house, I should get the government to tell you that I’m allowed to stay in it, as unwanted as your company may be.
You’re indifferent to whales, but would kill everyone if it meant saving a human life(AIDS infected crack addict, I believe)? So the fact that a human life made decisions that put him/her in a position to be an infected waste is somehow my responsibility? How is killing a life going to change the facts of the human condition? But you believe woman should have the right to choose to kill a human life? Regardless of when you think life begins, who are you or anyone else to decide that? Delta waves? Are you a neurologist? Embryonic stem cells? Ok, show me one case of embryonic stem cell research achieving anything? What about adult stem cells? Have you researched that or have you failed to do the research that an honest intellect would. There are countless cases of adult stem cells creating more affective treatments than would ever be created from the corpses of unwanted children.
That’s the problem I see with the Left, as it were… No morality. I’m not a Christian, Jew, Muslim or Buddhist. I’m an American. I value human life and personal responsibility. Take a walk into any local store in America and look at the counter. Is there not a small jar, or several, asking for help for a local member of the community? Flyers on the windows, raffles at the fairs, events at the F.D.? The problem with being a liberal, is that you don’t care about anything but you’re own beliefs. And they are nothing more than that, opinions. To have faith in anything is better to be morally relative about everything.

It is not an incenstive to be lazy. Do you think living on food stamps is a good life? That if you never get a job and stay on food stamps forever that you will be happy? If so, then you are a fool. Im not sure how you could possibly believe that. The government just provides systems so these people dont die of hunger. And most often just because someone isnt employed, it doesnt mean that they havent worked hard. MAYBE they never had an oppurtunity because the job market is so hard nowadays so they werent even given a shot. The human world isnt like the natural world where we let our fellow humans die if they arent equipped with the traits to survive. It isnt natural selection. There is still a separation from those more fit (rich people) than those who are less fit (poor people). But we shouldnt just let our fell homo sapiens die without attempting to save them

Ok first of all..in my opinion I believe a baby is a human being as soon as it is created. If a doctor believes that there is a potential threat to the mothers life they would make her have a c-section, but they can’t tell if there is a threat or not until late into the pregnancy most of the time, which means according to your opinion on babies, they WOULD be human beings. If the mother for some reason would not want to the child, then there is always adoption. There are plenty of families out there who would love to have a baby but can’t. Second of all, welfare is a very good thing WHEN it is used right. I know people who collect this assistance because they are using the excuse that they are too overweight to work!!! This is ridiculous! So if I would just get fat I could sit at home smoking cigarettes and talking on the phone while playing on my computer too? While other people go to work every day to pay for that phone and computer and those cigarettes and the potato chips I’m eating? No..there is no reason that some of these people cant get a desk job that has NO strain on your body at all. I’m sorry..I know that some people need it and that is understandable because I also know people using it for what it is needed for. Also, with this economy it is harder to find jobs, so if they really tried to find a job but couldnt, and if they really do have a problem then I understand, but I’m not working everyday just to pay somebody to be lazy!! And the last thing I want to comment on is that I do believe if you are coming to live in our country you should have to be a citizen and learn at least the basics of our language. It’s just as much of a safety issue as it is anything. They want to come take advantage of our freedom but not care enough to learn anything about how our country earned it? No..if you don’t care enough about our country to learn about it and take the test to be a citizen, or if you don’t care enough to learn our language and be social with the rest of us, then you don’t care enough to live in the land of the free!

1.No..if you don’t care enough about our country to learn about it and take the test to be a citizen, or if you don’t care enough to learn our language and be social with the rest of us, then you don’t care enough to live in the land of the free! i agree but say instead of helping the iraq people why aren’t we helping Mexico? apparently it sucks if they’re all coming here for money we dont have.(gwb)
2. Why should we be in a war with iraq because one iraqi! made a name for himself. Fact the Middle East holds 3/4 of the worlds oil so why not take it by force…well thats what were trying to do and we cover it up by making up stuff like how were going to better there lives. They have been fighting for idk 10000 years and we plan to go in and stop it? in a few years? Fact There is no solid evidence of nuclear weapons? Another excuse used to declare war.Fact/opinion not sure now-a-days….. Osama Bin ladden enraged George Bush Sr. Finnally voting has never been this vicious before.. now we have people bribing election centers to win, we vote for a president (2) that wants to break the constitution that started the pursuit of hapyness and freedom, and mostly for Republicans. patriotism aside from the 250billion were in debt almost every bit of it went to our past President that would rather take a break every chance he had. If you can dig deep into yourself and clear your mind to take a look at this FACTUAL website from George Mason University on the spending of everything P.S Realeased March 16, 2009 http://www.mercatus.org/PublicationDetails.aspx?id=26426
The time for games is over, we let George. W. Bush play for 8 years, and it’s time for change.

Everyone on American soil has certain rights regardless of their legal status, and that’s not something that should change.

Regardless, it would be impossible to deport all the illegal aliens in this country. Each one is entitled to a deportation hearing, as well they should be. If each hearing lasts five minutes and every one of the roughly 12 million illegals here in this country gets one, you’re talking about a tremendously long amount of time. It’s just not practical.

We wouldn’t need to deport all the illegals. They found a way here they can find a way home. We could even start businesses shuttling people back over the border just like the ones that brought them here. That is a red herring.

My father is a democrat and would agree with your thoughts. He and I go back and forth (civilly) all the time. “They should have rights! They should have rights!” They (those here illegally) should not have rights. They should not be here. There is a process to entering this country. A huge reason our unemployment rate hit the roof was a result of illegals working for penny pinchers, leaving good Americans stuck at home. They are also huge contributor to organized crime and gangs. Look at the ms13 (primarily composed of El Salvadorians illegally in the US.) They are regarded as the most ruthless gang in the country, and they are here illegally. Should they have the right to an attorney? No. They should be treated as terrorists. Maybe this would keep the rest of them from thinking about illegally crossing our boarder to hurt Americans. I respect your opinion, and I think that one of the greatest things about this country has to be everyone’s right to their own opinion.
-Young Republican that speaks his mind

No lawyers? Ok, then, what do you do to prevent the problem of deporting people who are here legally or who are American citizens? The only way to do that is a hearing, and the only way to conduct hearings are to allow everyone to have a lawyer. It’s just basic logic, in addition to part of our laws.

All humans have the same rights. Americans dont have any more rights naturally than anyone else. It is good that you are young and speak but make sure you read over your comment because you sound like a monster. Have respect for other people is the lesson you should learn from this

You know, it’s interesting – every time I hear people complaining about illegal immigrants (or immigrants in general) the economic card crops up. It’s not a new argument. Historically it’s cropped up ever since we started having national discussions about immigration (around the late 1800’s).

Unfortunately, while the premise may sound likely or even obvious (that the illegals/foreigners are taking our jobs), in fact the opposite can be shown to be true in every instance where enough data exists to show the trends.

For instance: in the mid 1800’s (almost exactly) Chinese immigrants came in droves to California and Washington. The economy in both states became very robust around the same time. This is in part because those immigrants took dirty jobs for very cheap pay, allowing more profit to be made and wages elsewhere (read ‘skilled labor’) to be higher, ensuring a better quality of life for those who most often complained about ‘their’ jobs being stolen. They also bought things, of course, increasing the profit from the consumer side of the equation.

In addition, many immigrants then opened shops or other businesses form carefully hoarded income, offering products at competetive prices, benefiting the citizens who were consumers – and since the white people didn’t want to buy from asians, they employed white people to run the front of the store – but hey, they’re stealing our jobs, man.

Because the people in power shared your sentiment about jobs vis a vis the loss of said jobs to durty furriners, both states passed usurious laws to prevent the immigrants from taking natural-born citizens’ jobs. The economy (which had been healthy and even booming before, I remind you) took a dive.

The laws were eventually repealed, and (what do you know) the economy recovered.

There are many such examples, but I think this one shows basically everything that any of the others would – immigrants, legal or no, are F-ing good for the economy – as counterintuitive as that might seem. It’s not argument – it’s historical fact.

Look, for those of you saying that illegal immigrants should just be sent back; i have lived in those countries where these people come from, and you honestly cant blame them for leaving, yes they did it illegalie but those people want a better life they have gone through years of suffering we should at least hear them out

I hate to quibble, and the discussion has been polite, enlightening, and interesting in many ways.
That said, I note that the great Badgeroonie himself, in the main article, con #6, came very close to and potentially crossed the line of Godwin’s Law. Thus the discussion must close, until such time as an independent panel can determine whether such a breach of law has occurred in fact.

chris i read your article and was intrigued. the whole republican, democrat
situation is so not perfect. that is the reason i usually choose not to vote for any presidential elections. they just need to keep doing what there doing and that is rotating to keep this world going round.

wow, i just wish that some people would be educated in what they actually believe in before they choose sides. This blog was very opinionated, and biased. It doesn;t really give a right representation of what republicans are really about. It seemed like there was a very short pro list, but the con list was a mile long. I am a republican because i believe in hard work and a small government, and i’m proud of it.

Well, yes, of course it’s biased. I don’t pretend to be completely impartial, but I do try to be fair. It is all entirely my own opinion, and given that I’m a socialist and to the left of the Democrats, it’s kind of surprising I find any pros to the Republicans. But I do.

I am extremely offended as a Christian Catholic, and as a republican. Te moment this country wanted to stop using god, it’s when it began to go down. Faith should be a number 1 right not only this country but the world. We are free to believe in any religion but also to trust our god. Democrats ICLUDING Socialism are communist! A disgrace to this country where the Man takes control of people and government infertrate people’s life. Government was created to keep order. Not so people can be equal. Socialism kills the strive and goal for educational sucess. I’m cuban, and look what happened to cuba, socialism hit and people are swimming to this country.

Oh, dear. Well, let’s see. Of course, as a Christian Catholic and Republican, you WOULD be offended, since this is an article that is critical of some beliefs that you probably hold, and since Catholicism and Republicanism haven’t exactly taught you to be open-minded. Ignoring your grammatical errors for the nonce, let me respond point by point:
First, at least a few of the founding fathers had ambivalent views on religion at best; at least one of them may have been a -gasp- atheist. So what you’re saying here is that somehow, this country has been in decline since before the writing of the constitution.

Second, when you (or anybody) gets to be king of the world and make decisions for other sovereign states full of people who don’t actually think the same way or hold the same values as America does, then that person can make that decision (and promptly get overthrown for it). In the meantime, your suggestion has no real bearing on the article.

We ARE free to believe in any religion we choose; this also includes not choosing to believe in any.
I see. so now we get to the politics, finally. And all you have is a poorly understood slur to throw in general. Ok, let me break this down for you: Socialism is a political movement; Democrats are a left-leaning political party in the United States, which started as a more fundamentally conservative party than your own GOP; and Communism was a political movement.

Calling any political movement another political movement doesn’t even make sense, even as a pejorative, which I’m assuming this was; and furthermore, socialism has very, very little to do with anything that communism would agree with. You display your own ignorance for the world to see when you write things like this.. Calling Democrats communist betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about what communism is/was, as do the rest of your comments on socialism.

Are we even living in the same country? The Declaration of Independance is about freedom and equality. BOTH things. Not one. Not the other. BOTH. I quote from the Declaration, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal”. Hmm. And as for why THIS government was formed, I quote again, “-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” But maybe you skipped the first paragraph in civics class.

Finally, Cuba has a tin-pot dictator and an embargo that’s been going on for forty years. And I’m pretty sure it’s actually a communist nation, not a socialist one. But I could be wrong. Cuba hasn’t mattered since at the latest the seventies, anyway. So I guess your point is that the country these people are coming to is America, the home of the (apparently) freedom-hating liberals you just railed against? Hmm.

More money in the hands of the middle class means more consumerism which grows the economy. Right now the money is being sucked to the top and hoarded. Henry Ford knew he had to pay workes enough money to buy his cars. Tax cuts on the rich does not create jobs, proven time and time again. When I pay taxes it hurts and the rich should also feel the pain. Lets find a away for no child born to suffer, that means a safety net. If some take advantage, then catch them.

This was a great blog. Very true, and quite funny in a deep, dark, and depressing kind of way. Ingore the eagle riding gun maniacs, as I am sure they will call you a “Socialist, Communist, freedom hating, white people hater”. Just know they are too deep into their indoctrination/brainwashing to be returned back to the world of the sane. This was an awesome post. Thanks for sharing.