spanky wrote:...if people have enough time and energy to build their own boards, their energies would be better spent helping us run our boards better and make improvements...

Not to belabor a point, rather to make a different one: Many otherwise-worthwhile people aren't natural "team players." While they have excellent skills and intelligence, a project's size or lines of communications can evolve such that they feel that they can no longer make significant contributions to the overall form of the end product. Or they simply feel that things just aren't progressing as rapidly as they could if they were working alone. So they shrug and go do something by themselves. This should not be confused with "taking my ball and going home" because they're not getting their way. It's frustration, not petulance.

(Note: oops, I accidentally erased my earlier post. This was meant to be a new post not an edit of my earlier statement, which unfortunately is lost in the ether now. I forget what, exactly, I said earlier but it was to the effect that the creators of the alternative BBSs did not set out to rob members from the official E-Playa. And that it's counter-productive to blame your customers for disliking your product. When the continually-evolving official E-Playa meets their desires, in all likelihood they'll return.)

I feel, if anything, the alternate eplayas have helped to keep community here on the official eplaya. Look, it's a fuckin browser. There is no difference between here and there in terms of accessability for me. They are all parts of a whole in my mind. And lets face it, for a time, the part here was sucking wind. If there was not another 'wing' for me to go to, I would have just lost touch with the community as a whole. Sad. Instead, someone did lend a hand in their own way. They created a space where we could come together more effectively when they saw the community falling apart. I appreciate that. I lurk more there, post more here but I would be doing niether if something had not been done.

I stated online somewhere that I felt that, in a way, they [the other bbs'] are the perfect expression of what we are trying to do - foster the communication and connection of strangers to the point where they self-identify as a community. Once there, they branch out and work on their own stuff, together, to expand support for that community. Admittedly, I didn't intend for this to happen with other bbs', but they do seem to fill a need, so great!

Stepping back from the details of this tool, and looking at our larger goal for our web offerings, the creation of the other bbs' are pure success. The eplaya is meant to introduce and nurture budding relationships between Burners. When the changes to the tool shook up everyone's world, some of that community went off and created their own tools. IMO this is an excellent response! I don't think we need to have the corner on the market. and I want to encourage community online, wherever it may exist.

On the flipside, it hurt that so many folks were willing to take so many shots at the new tool and us, personally, and then not help us fix it. It's like getting hit-and-run, over and over again. I think that's what stuck in Spanky's craw, tho I do not presume to speak for him.

I sure didn't want folks to leave here, especially not because they feel betrayed/disappointed/annoyed, but it seems clear that most of those folks are willing to come back as improvements are made, or better yet, maintain "dual citizenship". And more folks are helping than just complaining right now, so I'm happier with where we are at.[/quote]

the shots at the tool seem to have been, in retrospect, for the most part warranted.

the personal attacks came about because we felt we were explicitely kept out of the loop, or intentionally ignored when we did find ways to offer opinions. i'm aware now that this is not how it was intended, for the most part, but that is how it was perceived.

i hope that, in the time since you've started providing feedback to the users of the bbs, that the tone of the conversation on our side has improved to acceptable levels.

Last edited by III on Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

the shots at the tool seem to have been, in retrospect, for the most part warranted.

No they are not. As Spanky stated at the first meeting, something needed to be done about comming up with a cross/platform solution that would be easier to manage and function within the latest industry standards.

the personal attacks came about because we felt we were explicitely kept out of the loop, or intentionally ignored when we did find ways to offer opinions. i'm aware now that this is not how it was intended, for the most part, but that is how it was percieved.

Again as I stated earier:

Just hang for a few. i'm sure they will get to you. I'm supprised they got to me.

also:

I am not an admin here but I know what's involved. Sometimes it can be a bitch. and if your volunteering it can be wicked.

Just hang for a few. i'm sure they will get to you.

Personal attacks are not warrented under any circumstances. It's down right rude and not part of the netiquette scheme.

i hope that, in the time since you've started providing feedback to the users of the bbs, that the tone of the conversation on our side has improved to acceptable levels.

The admins have more than supplied you and those of you that want to live in the stone age more than adequate replys to your inconciderate request in more than ample time.

time to give this all a break. lets not rehash and just move on already.

I'm just trying to get clarity here. You're the one who said it wasn't warrented under any circumstances - in the same post as the stone age thing - which sounds pretty insulting to me.

Just food for thought DF.

There is nothing deragatory about that statement. It's the truth.
as much as I hated microsoft back in 95, they had a point.
it is the same diffrence as the netscape microsoft wars.

There is a little bit of sacrifice to be made but in the long run phpbbs,
no matter how much you strip it down will still be ahead. they are the future and all that are of open systems. that is that.

if your talking about response times of a few nano seconds slower then hey get new equiptment. it is the way of the world. it's how the g4 came into play it's how the P4 came into play. it's just the way the world is.
no insult intended.

You think your failure to understand how it is insulting *and* your failure to understand that it's not just a few kilobytes of data being talked about is some sort of ... masterful karate move?

What you didn't grasp in the other thread is that it's a readability issue. Some people find it faster and easier to move through a bbs that isn't clogged up with a lot of graphical eye candy. There is the speed it takes to load onto your computer and then there is the speed at which you absorb the information.

I understand how some people have a problem with eyecandy but they are not the majority.
and I don't feel bad about that because I've allways been out numbered all my life. and still pulled out in front.

the point in this thread from me about III's post was :

the shots at the tool seem to have been, in retrospect, for the most part warranted.

the personal attacks came about because we felt we were explicitely kept out of the loop, or intentionally ignored when we did find ways to offer opinions.

It really is up to the Burningman staff to make whatever desisions they need to make. I think they have been quite nice about the whole thing really. and I'm not kissing anybodys ass.

if you dont want to get attcaked by me then don't attack period.

read the statement. it reads like a big baby.

and i like the south park thing. even though the way you put it was not what i meant, but i'll take it into concideration.

Hello, I need a 300 lb block of ice put right in the middle of the eplaya summit thread, please? Thanks.

DeFacto, I know where your coming from but damn, clean up the posts. Don't give them spelling errors to fling back at you. Also the last post clearly shows your mad. And again rightfully so but take a second and hold off on sending that post until you read it. Basically if your going to attack, use smart weapons tactics vs. the dumb bomb approach. This is a very savvy group and those kinds of attacks make more headway.

And one more thing...I missed the turnoff where this became personal towards you. I need to reread the thread.

Sorry Mr. k. seems like this group is so savvy that they can't give me a good run for my money.

and when you get the chance with that ice, chop it up into about 1 inch cubes and run it down slowly , very slowly down some of those backs till you get to the point where they start to realize that this is

In my TKD classes my instructor caught me saying Hi-ya and smacked my ass to the floor. I learned fast after that. Hi-ya is what'cha say in Texas. Not when trying to summon the power to knock your opponent on his ass or even better, totally out.

I was going to post this then I pulled it. Now I'm like screw it. Here's something for everybody.

"DeFacto, My intrepretation of your attitude was helped by your posting style. Your approach to punctuation and the choice of words was different and a little more aggressive than normal...so I assumed you were hot. And we all know what happens when one assumes. (Hee-haw, look at my floppy ears, what a jackass. Yeah I screwed up.)

I like Trey, he raises good points but sometimes he comes across with an attitude. It might not be intentional, it might be. Who knows. But that's how some of us see him and that's just the way it is. It's my problem but I may toss some zingers his way to let him know about it. I’m sure he’ll do the same to me.

Since this is a negative place, I know I have my share of detractors. But I won't hesitate to call a spade a spade as the saying goes. At least I have a medical excuse for my fuckups. The rest of you for the most part don't. "

Now after saying that, I hope this blows over and we get back to fixing this place. And Lydia, you had an excellent PM. Should I use 2 gallon cans or 5 gallon when needed? (Grin)

Back to the "stone age" business -- do you read any Usenet newsgroups?

Do you require a high-graphics interface to do so?

Isn't it just text on a screen, mostly?

Isn't the text the important part?

WRT the alleged art festival we call Burning Man, the creations displayed on the eplaya consist of our textual contributions, mostly. We shouldn't even notice the interface, as long as it works for accessing the text.

Back to the "stone age" business -- do you read any Usenet newsgroups?

Do you require a high-graphics interface to do so?

yes and no. yes to used user groups and no you don'y need a high-graphics interface to do so. but that was yester year.

this is the 21 st century. usergroups are not as they used to be.

Isn't it just text on a screen, mostly?

yes and no. as I've just said it used to be that way.

Isn't the text the important part?

yes and no again. these days you need the graphics to further enhance ones point. it make the directions in putting the bicycle together more efficient.

WRT the alleged art festival we call Burning Man, the creations displayed on the eplaya consist of our textual contributions, mostly. We shouldn't even notice the interface, as long as it works for accessing the text.

quite true. however this is Burningman where not only are there artists of the writing type but visual as well as musical. They express thier views in various ways.

An examle:

Last Real Burner wrote:

Thread Drift comes with the territory. It's the glue that keeps this place sliding around.

Welcome Spanky

orotundly,mr smith

I think it is important for all artists not to be restrained to just one medium just to satisfy the few.

and as far as the interphase, it does fine in accomplishing what it is designed to do. make ease of use. not only that it works better than most of the php's I've surfed lately.