Im on my phone so maybe someone else could post a pic of the quick conversation they had. PFF posted an article saying JPP wasn't an elite edge rusher, just an elite edge defender. Joe Staley replied saying that he was indeed one of the best edge rushers he has gone against alongside Aldon Smith and Clay Matthews.Just thought it would be interesting to share :)

B&RWarrior

05-22-2013, 10:32 AM

I think the point is that he doesn't get consistent pressure like most elite edge rushers, even when they don't get sacks. I think technique will help him a lot. 6 sacks is not elite, so he will have to show us this season if he is worthy of that status.

The Notorious B.I.G BLUE

05-22-2013, 10:44 AM

6 sacks isn't elite but when your being triple teamed bc the offense doesn't fear the other players on the D-line...then how can you be more productive? I think much like TC mentioned I think he could have been in better shape last year, I just think the amount of attention he received for opposing offenses wore him down.

Morehead State

05-22-2013, 10:50 AM

6 sacks isn't elite but when your being triple teamed bc the offense doesn't fear the other players on the D-line...then how can you be more productive? I think much like TC mentioned I think he could have been in better shape last year, I just think the amount of attention he received for opposing offenses wore him down.
I know I've beaten this point to hell but lets see what he does now that he won't be displaced on the right side by Osi in passing downs. Almost all his damage has been done as a RDE in his career. He spent most of last season and the end (and playoffs) of 2011 on the left side in passing downs.

giantsfan420

05-22-2013, 10:53 AM

nice. sign of respect.

Kruunch

05-22-2013, 11:13 AM

Im on my phone so maybe someone else could post a pic of the quick conversation they had. PFF posted an article saying JPP wasn't an elite edge rusher, just an elite edge defender. Joe Staley replied saying that he was indeed one of the best edge rushers he has gone against alongside Aldon Smith and Clay Matthews.Just thought it would be interesting to share :)

I've never felt that PFF was very good in their opinion based stats / blogs. If they focused on one team maybe, but there are too many variables to take into account for the stats/blogs they post (imo).

Having said that, I think JPP lost a step since the Giants had him put on that weight. He's gained 25lbs since coming to the Giants. The other half of that though, is that the Giants defensive front rarely stunted/blitzed last year. It's a lot easier to protect against the same rush, snap after snap.

Kruunch

05-22-2013, 11:14 AM

I know I've beaten this point to hell but lets see what he does now that he won't be displaced on the right side by Osi in passing downs. Almost all his damage has been done as a RDE in his career. He spent most of last season and the end (and playoffs) of 2011 on the left side in passing downs.

He was mostly a LDE in college IIRC.

giantscolombia

05-22-2013, 11:26 AM

6 sacks isn't elite but when your being triple teamed bc the offense doesn't fear the other players on the D-line...then how can you be more productive? I think much like TC mentioned I think he could have been in better shape last year, I just think the amount of attention he received for opposing offenses wore him down.

It was JPP and Joseph on the line... no one else.

MattMeyerBud

05-22-2013, 12:07 PM

I've never felt that PFF was very good in their opinion based stats / blogs. If they focused on one team maybe, but there are too many variables to take into account for the stats/blogs they post (imo).

Having said that, I think JPP lost a step since the Giants had him put on that weight. He's gained 25lbs since coming to the Giants. The other half of that though, is that the Giants defensive front rarely stunted/blitzed last year. It's a lot easier to protect against the same rush, snap after snap.

they are one of the most over hyped opinions I've honestly ever heard.

Morehead State

05-22-2013, 12:13 PM

He was mostly a LDE in college IIRC.
With us...his best work was at RDE.

gumby74

05-22-2013, 12:15 PM

they are one of the most over hyped opinions I've honestly ever heard.

Our entire defense was over hyped after we won the SB. Our defense was poop most of the season.

MattMeyerBud

05-22-2013, 12:21 PM

Our entire defense was over hyped after we won the SB. Our defense was poop most of the season.

regular season is a means to get into the playoffs and to fuel fantasy football

other then that, tell me how a team plays in the playoffs and that's how they will be remembered.

TheEnigma

05-22-2013, 12:26 PM

I've never felt that PFF was very good in their opinion based stats / blogs. If they focused on one team maybe, but there are too many variables to take into account for the stats/blogs they post (imo).

Having said that, I think JPP lost a step since the Giants had him put on that weight. He's gained 25lbs since coming to the Giants. The other half of that though, is that the Giants defensive front rarely stunted/blitzed last year. It's a lot easier to protect against the same rush, snap after snap.

They're getting better and I like the fact they try to evolve their criteria instead of relying on flawed stats like ESPN gives us. No one should solely rely on a site like PFF or Football Outsiders to determine how good a player truly is though. It's just another opinion (how you value it is up to you) to compare with yours and make a potentially better judgement.

MattMeyerBud

05-22-2013, 12:27 PM

They're getting better and I like the fact they try to evolve their criteria instead of relying on flawed stats like ESPN gives us. No one should solely rely on a site like PFF or Football Outsiders to determine how good a player truly is though. It's just another opinion (how you value it is up to you) to compare with yours and make a potentially better judgement.

I definitely like the concept and maybe even the formula does work - but I just don't think they know what they are seeing when they see it.

For instance when they called Rolle the worst safety in the league two years ago even though he played like 75% of the snaps at corner

Kruunch

05-22-2013, 12:29 PM

With us...his best work was at RDE.

Well, he hasn't had the body of work at LDE with the Giants to say otherwise.

But yeah, I'd rather see him drop 15lbs, get that step back and continue rushing the blind side.

Apparently the Giants want to see if he can replace Tuck on the left side. If we can get a really good rusher on the right, then I think it has the potential to be a home run (given that we didn't draft one of the LDEs in the draft).

Morehead State

05-22-2013, 12:29 PM

I definitely like the concept and maybe even the formula does work - but I just don't think they know what they are seeing when they see it.

For instance when they called Rolle the worst safety in the league two years ago even though he played like 75% of the snaps at corner
Generally speaking, there is so much nuance in playing defense AND O line.......things that are NOT measurable, it seems silly to try to evaluate them by statistical measures.

MattMeyerBud

05-22-2013, 12:32 PM

Generally speaking, there is so much nuance in playing defense AND O line.......things that are NOT measurable, it seems silly to try to evaluate them by statistical measures.

I agree, damn near im possible but I think it does give you a better shot at reality than the general numbers of ESPN and things of that nature.

GameTime

05-22-2013, 12:34 PM

JPP is not elite....yet. he has the tools he just needs to hone them. IMO he is not much of thinker and he will have probs when asked to be disciplined or go into dif coverages.....I hope I am wrong....

TheEnigma

05-22-2013, 12:34 PM

I definitely like the concept and maybe even the formula does work - but I just don't think they know what they are seeing when they see it.

For instance when they called Rolle the worst safety in the league two years ago even though he played like 75% of the snaps at corner

Coverage grades are by far the hardest to determine who is at fault and it's very opinionated. You might get a rough idea of what the defense was trying to do when you look back at the film but only the coaches truly know what went wrong when it's all said and done. I wouldn't call Rolle the worst Safety in the league but with the amount of money he makes, he leaves me desiring a little more in terms of deep safety play.

Kruunch

05-22-2013, 12:47 PM

Generally speaking, there is so much nuance in playing defense AND O line.......things that are NOT measurable, it seems silly to try to evaluate them by statistical measures.

+1

BlueSanta

05-22-2013, 12:53 PM

I have a feeling if you went around the league and polled the players, many of them would agree with Staley.

JPP commands the respect of offenses. 2 years ago NFL teams respected our other Dlineman enough to not over commit to blocking JPP. He made them pay the price.

Last year, they corrected that mistake.

drewz

05-22-2013, 02:56 PM

btw.. heres the short convo they had
696

G-Men4Supes

05-22-2013, 03:04 PM

2011 counts as well as 2012. JPP was elite in his second season. He just needs to get his body and mind back to that place.

hugehomer

05-22-2013, 06:05 PM

6 sacks isn't elite but when your being triple teamed bc the offense doesn't fear the other players on the D-line...then how can you be more productive? I think much like TC mentioned I think he could have been in better shape last year, I just think the amount of attention he received for opposing offenses wore him down.
No player in the league gets triple teamed. Not even JJ Watt who could teach JPP about rushing the passer.

fansince69

05-22-2013, 06:11 PM

No player in the league gets triple teamed. Not even JJ Watt who could teach JPP about rushing the passer.Guess you never saw Taylor play...he got triple teamed regularly....LT and tight end with a back chipping him

hugehomer

05-22-2013, 06:44 PM

Guess you never saw Taylor play...he got triple teamed regularly....LT and tight end with a back chipping him
LT is not in the leagus.

fansince69

05-22-2013, 06:53 PM

LT is not in the leagus.Do not make it sound like it never happens

Ruttiger711

05-22-2013, 07:08 PM

If he's getting triple teamed to limit his effectiveness then he would have a sack every time he's been manned up. Oscar Meyer Bologna

Sovereign

05-22-2013, 07:11 PM

they are one of the most over hyped opinions I've honestly ever heard.

Why? Because they don't put the 53 Giants on the roster as hall of famers?

fansince69

05-22-2013, 07:23 PM

If he's getting triple teamed to limit his effectiveness then he would have a sack every time he's been manned up. Oscar Meyer BolognaWhat?

BuffyBlueII

05-22-2013, 08:27 PM

After his play last season, I would have to agree with PFF on this one. Hopefully JPP returns to 2011 form.

B&RWarrior

05-22-2013, 09:31 PM

Nobody ever talks about how his run defense improved last year. He was the one consistent force at the point of attack. I don't wan JPP the great edge rusher and nothing more, sound like Osi part II. I prefer JPP the great edge defender.