Daily News

Religious-Freedom Amendments Tumble (7437)

Four States Affirm Same-Sex ‘Marriage’

A religious-freedom measure on the Florida state ballot failed on Election Day.

Amendment 8, which was one of two state ballot questions supported by the Florida Conference of Catholic Bishops, was defeated, with only 44% of voters in favor. The measure required 60% of people voting Yes in order to amend the state's constitution.

Supporters said Amendment 8 would have allowed faith-based organizations, such as Catholic Charities, to continue delivering social services without the threat of lawsuits because of a 19th-century law, rooted in anti-Catholic bias, which bans public funding for all religiously affiliated groups.

“Floridians deserve the opportunity to benefit from programs with a secular purpose run by religious entities,” said Juan Zapata, president of Citizens for Religious Freedom and Non-Discrimination, which championed the amendment.

Legal Scrutiny

Catholic organizations such as hospitals, social-service agencies and disaster-relief services already partner with the Florida state government to provide services, but those efforts are constantly under legal scrutiny.

Michael Sheedy, associate director of health for the Florida Conference of Catholic Bishops, said Catholic agencies will maintain their efforts despite the Election Day setback.

“Religious providers of vital social services to all members of the community will continue their partnerships with state and local governments under the shadow of potential challenge simply because they are religious,” Sheedy said.

“Discrimination against some harms us all,” Sheedy added.

Amendment 8 would have protected individuals or agencies, on the basis of religious identity or belief, from being denied government benefits, funds and support, except as required under the First Amendment.

The Florida Conference of Catholic Bishops had urged residents to support Amendment 8 as a way to ensure that organizations and individuals had an equal and rightful place in the public square.

“If service providers can abide by requirements of a program, they should not be excluded simply because they are religious,” said the statement from the bishops, who expressed their sincere gratitude to all Floridians who voted Yes on the amendments. “Those who worked diligently towards their passage these past weeks and months are to be commended for their unwavering commitment to uphold life and liberty.”

However, opponents, including teachers’ unions, argued that Amendment 8 would have blurred the boundary between church and state while serving to mobilize support for taxpayer-funded vouchers for private and parochial schools.

Opposition

The League of Women Voters of Florida opposed Amendment 8, saying that it supported “adequate funding of public education with no use of public funding for the expansion or funding of private education through a voucher program.”

Bishop Frank Dewane, head of the Diocese of Venice, Fla., wrote in a Nov. 2 column in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune that Amendment 8 was not about school vouchers, but instead about eliminating the state’s blatantly anti-Catholic Blaine Amendment, named after the 19th-century Congressman James Blaine, who sought to amend the U.S. Constitution to shut down Catholic schools.

While unsuccessful, Blaine — who was reportedly influenced by the anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant “Know Nothing” movement — had his language incorporated in 30 state amendments that ban public funds from being used to support what are defined as sectarian institutions.

“Under the Blaine Amendment, current Florida law prohibits religious organizations from receiving state funds, even if the funds are used for services such as food pantries, low-income housing for the elderly or assistance for mothers and their children,” Bishop Dewane wrote.

“Denying state funds to faith-based groups on religious grounds is blatant discrimination and a violation of religious freedom,” the bishop added.

The Florida bishops had also supported Amendment 6, which proposed to prohibit public funds from being used to pay for abortions or health benefits that include abortion coverage. Proponents said the measure — which failed — would have prevented the Florida Constitution from granting broader abortion rights than what is already granted under federal law.

Father Michael Orsi, chaplain and research fellow in law and religion at Ave Maria University, located near Naples, Fla., said the bishops in Florida tried “very hard” to mobilize support for the religious freedom and abortion-related amendments.

“[The bishops] spoke convincingly. They were clear in what was at stake,” Father Orsi said. “It's just shocking to see that those amendments lost.”

A host of high-profile endorsers — including Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush — came out in favor of the amendments.

“These amendments promote life and liberty, and I am proud to support them, and I strongly encourage Floridians to vote in favor of each,” Rubio said in the weeks leading up to the election.

“For decades, faith-based organizations have provided Floridians with access to high-quality public services, including medical care, housing, food, after-school programs and disaster relief. These are basic services that serve Floridians in a time a need,” Bush said.

Tim Schultz, the state legislative policy director for the American Religious Freedom Program, an initiative of the Washington-based Ethics and Public Policy Center, said the Florida religious-freedom amendment’s defeat was a “missed opportunity,” but added that there are still many hopeful signs that Christians and other faith communities are coalescing around the need to defend religious liberty.

Schultz noted the Missouri state Legislature’s Sept. 12 overriding of Gov. Jay Nixon’s veto of a bill that allows individuals, employers and insurers the right to exclude health-care coverage for abortion, contraception and sterilization in employee health-care plans.

“There have some been some real positive signs in 2012, and there will be more, I’m sure, for 2013,” said Schultz, who added that religious freedom would be a concern worth paying attention to regardless of the results on Election Day.

“This issue is going to be an issue, no matter who is in office at the federal level,” he said.

Also touching upon the issue of religious freedom in the Nov. 6 elections were ballot measures in four states regarding same-sex “marriage.”

Voters in Maine, Maryland and Washington moved to legalize same-sex “marriage,” while a proposed amendment failed in Minnesota that would have defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

The Maryland measure, as worded, protects clergy from officiating at same-sex ceremonies and promises that religiously affiliated organizations do not have to provide goods and services related to same-sex weddings.

The Maryland Catholic Conference, which urged Marylanders to uphold traditional marriage, warned that residents “should not be fooled into thinking we can redefine marriage and still protect religious liberty.”

Comments

Anne, it appears to me that I have offended you as I was afraid I might. I apologize. I will say only this in my defense then we will have to agree to disagree and I will leave.

In supporting my religious and philosophical views, I have appealed only to the Bible and Natural law which, as far as I know, are the primary sources of truth.

With regard to information about Catholic views, I am speaking to Catholics on a Catholic web site, which is the closest anyone like me can get to a primary source. I do not have access to the Pope, or even a bishop, and even if I did, it would be a futile discussion because I doubt the Pope, or even a Bishop would be open to influence from someone like me. When one person in a discussion is not open to influence, the most that can be hoped for is to convey information from one to the other. There can be no true exploration and discovery of truth, which is what I am interested in.

Speaking of sexual sin, homosexuality is not an issue for me, but since someone brought it up in an earlier post, I will leave this link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY) where a gentleman gives what I think is a very well reasoned discussion of the issue from a Biblical perspective.

I hope you will enjoy exploring this issue further, and I will enjoy exploring further the links you have provided.

Thank you for your time and thoughtfulness. I will continue to explore the Truth, and perhaps by God’s grace we will see each other in the kingdom. May God bless you.

Posted by ANNE on Monday, Nov 19, 2012 7:43 PM (EDT):

Ron Nielsen, I guess you are unwilling to know the truth.
There can be no meaningful discussions when you (or anyone else) merely uses impressions and media celebrities (who have less knowledge than most of us put together) as your source for information - whether it be religious or scientific.
When you want to know something, go to the source - not individuals or talking heads, or writers who may or may not be ignorant or politically motivated.
Until you are interested in TRUTH, there is no discussion since many of your statements are off base.
In the USA you can not point to one area where Catholics have imposed their beliefs on non-Catholics. Obama through his HHS mandate is trying to impose your beliefs on us. He wants us to pay for your abortions, contraceptions, and voluntary sterilizations. Please PAY for your OWN sexual sins and leave us out of it.

Posted by Ron Nielsen on Monday, Nov 19, 2012 3:51 PM (EDT):

Anne, Thank you for the kind distinctions you have made on my behalf. Let me acknowledge that I am probably out of order making my comments to Catholics on a Catholic web site. I have been silently angry over the abortion issue for a long time and it feels good to discuss it. I haven’t read everything on the sites you gave, but what I read doesn’t really address the issues as I see them.

I am going to give several reasons based on analogies which may seem at first unrelated, but which taken together, I find compelling.

1. Re: Ireland and Tanya Reeves: Two wrongs do not make a right, and I would not use malpractice to justify religiouscide (a word I just make up to refer to unnecessary harm or death caused by religious ideas.)

2. I will not defend abortion as a form of birth control. I agree that abortion has very serious psychological and spiritual consequences. I do however believe that there are things that are much worse than abortion, which have much more severe and long lasting consequences. I believe that the decisions around abortion are a matter of proportionality. The negative consequences of abortion increase with the age of the fetus. With certain kinds of birth control that the Catholic clergy would define as abortive, the consequences may be even less severe than trying to live celibate, as the clerical sex scandal demonstrates. While, the impact of late term abortions can be very severe, they are still probably less severe than infanticide or murder.

3. History and standing are important. Because I have never been a Catholic, and have never been taught, I am not a heretic, even though I hold views that would be heretical if I had been taught, and had been a Catholic. In the same way, you cannot call someone who has an abortion in response to a Devil’s choice, a murderer because the fetus has never gained standing as in independent reality. Scientifically, according to natural law, and according to the word of God in Genesis, the human body does not become a living soul until it receives the breath of God and becomes a living soul. Before that time, it is human, and it has status as a potential human being, but it is not yet capable of being a human being in the fullest sense of the word. Until it is capable of independent existence, it must remain something less.

4. If there had never been sin, and we lived in a perfect world, this would not be an issue. But we don’t live in a perfect world, and sometimes the legacy of sinful actions by our ancestors and others in our community leave us in circumstances where our only choices are Devil’s choices, where there is no right answer and we must choose whatever we judge to be the lesser of two evils. There are times when an abortion is the best of several horrifically terrible alternatives. In these cases, an abortion can be a redemptive act in the sense of mitigating a greater evil.

5. The definition of Life, at least for me, is not limited to biologic existence. It also includes emotional, spiritual, and community life. So when I say I am “pro-life” I have something larger in mind than just being anti-abortion. Being pro life forces me to acknowledge the larger context within which abortions occur. The reason I care enough to argue the issue on a Catholic web site is that I believe, to deny a women the right to weigh the Devil’s choice for herself, without dealing with all of the community ills that create the Devil’s choice, does her a positive harm. For this reason I believe it is wrong/evil/sinful to outlaw abortion. The proper legal response to abortion, is to deal with the problems that create the perception of need.

6. I disagree that birth control and abortion are not health issues. Sexual and emotional intimacy, birth, life, and death, are a part of a woman’s health and identity in ways that even I, as a married man, can barely glimpse. I notice that Jesus never condemned a woman for a sexual sin. While he always encouraged her to do better, and he always addressed the social issues that were oppressing her, he never condemned her. Her social condemnation for sexual sin was always more offensive to Christ than was her sin itself. Thirty-six years of marriage has convinced me that celibacy completely disqualifies the clergy from any shred of authority on issues of women’s health. In this area they are positively wrong, and their views are harmful.

7. I disagree with the presumption that celibacy is morally superior to marriage. In fact, I believe the opposite. You cannot take a statement of Paul made to one pastor, facing Nero’s persecution to be normative for the church for all time. Paul’s normative statement for the church is that the elder should be married to one wife. Taken literally, that would preclude an unmarried man from being a priest. If the church is figuratively the bride of Christ, what kind of adulterous relationship is it for a priest to claim to be married to the church in the place of Christ? And how on earth can an unmarried man have any understanding at all about how to best take care of a bride?

8. With regard to religious liberty, I view the catholic view on birth control and abortion the same way I view the Jehovah’s witness view on blood transfusions. Jehovah’s witnesses make many good points about blood transfusions, and their stance on blood transfusions has caused people to look at the issue more critically, and it has induced science to create alternatives that are helpful. So, the Catholic stance on birth control and abortion causes society to pay more attention to the consequences and to hopefully deal with some of the ingredients to the Devil’s choice.

But there is a point, if the religious view is carried to extremes, where the religious teaching becomes harmful to others. In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I think the state is right to intervene on behalf of children who don’t have the capacity to make life and death decisions on their own behalf. In the case of Catholics, I think the state is right to protect a woman’s right to health care. While it is true that the employer writes the check. The insurance really belongs to the employee, and in truth it is the employee that pays for it through their hard labor. The employer has no moral responsibility whatsoever. If you as a Catholic don’t want to use the birth control benefits in your insurance plan, or have an abortion, that is your right, and hopefully your church provides enough social support for you to be successful in your choice.

But your religious freedom stops were mine, or in this case, my wife’s begins. If she doesn’t have the necessary social support, force of will, education or whatever else is needed and she chooses to weight the Devil’s choice differently as a result, then I believe that like Jesus, I should support her and not condemn her. And I believe the state has a moral duty to protect her right to make her own moral decisions about something that is so integral to her very being.

I apologize if I have stated things offensively. I mean the discussion to be respectful.

Posted by ANNE on Monday, Nov 19, 2012 10:00 AM (EDT):

Ron Nielson, as I said you are not a heretic or schismatic.
Just a few examples of well known heretics and/or schismatics are: Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Kathleen Sebelius, Andrew Cuomo, and Carolyn Kennedy. Yet they lie by publically professing to be good Catholics.
By their heretical and/or schismatic actions regarding abortion and/or the support of sodomy (gay-marriage) they have excommunicated themselves.
In their exit polls, the secular media should ask Catholic voters - are you a Faithful Catholic or a Heretic. -This would be more accurate.

Posted by ANNE on Sunday, Nov 18, 2012 11:02 PM (EDT):

Ron Nielson, since you have never been a Catholic, therefore you are not a “heretic” or a “schismatic” regarding the Catholic Church. Because you have never been taught what the Church teaches and you have not been baptised in the Faith.
Please read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” for accurate info on what the Church really teaches. Church teaching must be taken as a unified whole, and it is not unusual for there to be several paragraphs on one subject - and I’m sure you will agree that space is limited in blogging.
As a starting point, please go to the site: ” What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE “. The answer to Priestly celebacy is answered there.
Over the past several years there is new scientific evidence - regarding the beginning of human life.
On the net please search “ENDOWMENT for HUMAN DEVELOPMENT”. This is not a religious site, but medical science. At 8 weeks after conception you will see the baby sucking his thumb, plus more.
I believe that you are interested in the truth. The truth is that these are human babies, not blobs of tissue as you will see.
Since you are not Catholic, it seems quite unusual for you to care about priestly celebacy or Church teachings on abortion, but we welcome your interest. I just want you to have accurate and complete answers that are not always possible in a blog due to space limitations, etc.

Posted by Denise on Friday, Nov 16, 2012 5:37 PM (EDT):

Ron Nielson,
Where to begin with your outlandish statements?
1) The secular culture you promote sees sex as a recreational activity which completely ignores the FACT that sex is how you reproduce. Hence, “unwanted” pregnancies happen by people who doen’t understand the natural law that if you absolutely don’t want a baby, don’t have sex (ie no birth control is 100% effective). Celibacy is part of this same concept: self control for a higher purpose. Just because you can’t understand the concept of self control, doesn’t make it part of a flawed world view.
2) I match your extreme case from Ireland with Tanya Reeves (callously allowed to bleed to death by Planned Parenthood after they botched her abortion). The difference is that Catholic teaching allows for efforts to be made to save BOTH the mother and baby. Why the doctor’s didn’t try to deliver the baby and attempt to save it with the mother is more a question of medical practice than Catholic teaching. Why pro-aborts won’t even acknowledge that the baby deserves some chance to live astounds me.
3) The Vatican response (after 40 years) to the leftist nuns teaching about spirituality “beyond Christ” was extremely restrained. Leftist nuns are NOT the only Catholics providing services to the poor and underpriviledged. When a Catholic nun is a “deathscort” at an abortion clinic she needs to reprimanded out of concern for her eternal salvation.
4) The Catholic Church teachings are directed to loving and serving God, not political power.
5)By your own statement, Religious Freedom requires the majority to respect the views of the minority: so why aren’t you respecting the religious freedom of Catholics? Why are you forcing us to pay for abortifacients and abortions? The principal is that instead of being part of insurance, a man or woman can pay for it out of their own paycheck. That would place the moral responsiblity with the purchaser and not with the employer. Why is this concept so hard for pro-aborts to understand? Abortion is NOT healthcare.

Posted by Ron Nielsen on Friday, Nov 16, 2012 1:20 PM (EDT):

Anne, You are correct. I am not a Catholic, and I have never read the Catechism. The problem I have with the above definition is the phrase “within the limits of the common good and public order.” During the Arab spring, every dictator claimed their response to the protesters was an effort to maintain “the common good and public order”. To me, the principle of religious freedom requires the majority not just to tolerate, but to respect the views of the minority; or in religious language, “the heretics”.

The Catholic church claims that good laws are based on “natural law”. In my “heretical” opinion, the Catholic doctrine fails this test in two areas. First, in its demand for clerical celibacy, and second, it’s opinions regarding abortion. These errors are probably linked. The clergy, having failed to follow natural law for 2000 years, have lost all knowledge of natural law when it comes of sex and married life.

I see that the drive for orthodoxy results in oppression. Historically, in the Inquisition, currently in the efforts to legislate false morality with regard to abortion and contraception. You would think that the sex scandal, and the anti-abortion death of the mother in Ireland would cause the church to rethink its position.

I don’t think it will. The Papal response to the American Nuns who were working close enough with underprivileged women to begin to understand natural law with regard to reproductive rights demonstrates to me that the Papacy is not interested in helping the unborn, the underprivileged, or even interested in morality. The Papacies primary objective is political power, and the anti-abortion stance provides the bridge which allows them to ally with evangelical Protestantism to gain political advantage.

Religious freedom does not include the right to force your religious beliefs on those under your sphere of influence. Even if contraception and abortion were somehow immoral, it would not be immoral for Catholic institutions to pay for it as part of their insurance program because the principle of religious liberty dictates that the moral responsibility lies where it must, with the woman and her doctors.

Posted by ANNE on Friday, Nov 16, 2012 1:30 AM (EDT):

Ron Nielesn, apparently you have not read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” which is 20 years old.
There are 6 different paragraphs addressing Religious Freedom. Here is one of them:
CCC: ” 1738 Freedom is exercised in relationships between human beings. Every human person, created in the image of God, has the natural right to be recognized as a free and responsible being.
All owe to each other this duty of respect.
The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in moral and religious matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of the human person.
This right must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and public order. “
It is sad that so many who profess to be ‘Catholic’ don’t have a clue what their Church teaches - and what they are required to adhere to.
For more info on the CCC on the net go to: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.
Our Bishops need to do a better job getting the word out.

Posted by Grace T on Friday, Nov 9, 2012 7:19 AM (EDT):

Very sad that Amendment 8 wasn’t passed. The only possible reason is anti-Catholicism. Some people are so intolerant of and hateful toward faith-based anything.

Posted by Ron Nielesn on Friday, Nov 9, 2012 12:08 AM (EDT):

Response to Irate Catholic:
I have the utmost respect for Catholic Charities. I worked in one myself for many years. They do valuable work and I agree, they deserve their tax free status. But they should NOT be given public funds.

I am only pointing out the obvious. The Catholic Church has never endorsed the principle of Religious Freedom, and what it is calling religious freedom today, is only twisted rhetoric designed to provide political cover for it’s continued oppression of non-Catholics who fall under it’s sphere of influence.

To the extent that Catholic charities are successful in blinding people to the true motivating principles of the church, to that extent, they undermine true religious freedom.

If anyone needs proof that the spirit of the Spanish Inquisition is still alive and well within the Catholic church, I submit three observations.
1. Your own comments above.
2. The deafening silence of other Catholics in protest to your comments.
3. The fear that causes you to use a pseudonym. I believe your fear is well justified.

Posted by vance on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 10:54 PM (EDT):

I hope this is a wake up call to the Bishops because the Catholic Church LOST BIG TIME nationwide. They are going to need to get up to the pulpits and start speaking straight to the faithful about the HHS Mandate, Gay Marriage, and abortion. The Hiding under their desks and ignoring the important issues don’t cut it.

Posted by Gene on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 9:28 PM (EDT):

Let’s face facts. Most people who identify themselves as Catholic, were baptized Catholic years ago, but hardly ever attend Church. They are no longer Catholic nor Christian but rather agnostic. So it is understandable their “God” is Obama secularism.

Unfortunately, our Church leaders have lost relevancy because they don’t lead.

Posted by Jim Palazzolo on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 5:19 PM (EDT):

Oh, our God was rejected and God fearing peoples are “denied” THE Truth, THE Way and THW Light. Guess we should just all go home and sulk, huh?

The love of our Savior SAVES us, the word of Jesus propels us and the wisdom of the Holy Sprit guides us on His Path, brothes and sisters!

One small bump on His road, One little pebble on the bottom of His ocean will not cause us pause.

Posted by Irate Catholic on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 5:05 PM (EDT):

The problem is our Church heirarchy. Seriously, the Bishops and our priests need to start leading the Church again. Stop being so afraid to “offend” anyone by preaching the TRUTH. Plus, when you have Bishops, priests, nuns, Chruch employees, etc. who either preach, actively oppose or publicly come out against the rules of the Church, they should be punished swiftly and severely. Then, you need to start teaching Catholics what it means to be a Catholic, including the Catechism and the fact that the church IS NOT a democracy. Then you need to remind Catholics that coming to Mass IS NOT OPTIONAL and that the Mass is not there for their “viewing enjoyment”. Finally, teh Bishops need to shut down all groups using the Catholic name to carry out sinful activities. “Catholics for Choice” should be shut down and all of the directors excommunicated from the Church until they repent for leading people astray. There is no such thing as a “pro-Choice Catholic” and I have not heard one bishop say that this election period. Seriously, the Church needs to shape up because this sorry state of affairs is what the Chruch leadership (or lack thereof) brought upon itself.

Posted by Irate Catholic on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 4:58 PM (EDT):

Ron Neil- the Catholic Church never claims it is running a “secular organization”. They may run certain programs (like schools) that the *government* considers has a secular purpose; however, the Churchhas never asserted that it is running a secular ogranization. So running a school or an adoption agency or hospital, etc. and wanting to be free from the givernment demanding that they provide benefits that are against the religion is not inconsistent and not a stretch. This country would be screwed if the Catholic Church all of a sudden stopped providing all of the benefits to the general public that it does. Take for example FEMA in New York today. Guess what, FEMA is closed due to snow! Who is out there helping Sandy victims today?? The Catholic Churches and the Salvation Army!! See what good our government does? The Chatholic Church earns every dollar and more of its tax exemption. The government - as incompetent as the people running it are- has no ability to match the efficiency of the Catholci Church for providing social benefits. PLUS we give to all no matter if they are Catholic or not. So stop trashing the Catholic Church- instead be thankful that they are there.

so right anne…..the only way to get it across to any Catholic who goes openly against Church teaching, is to begin to IMMEDIATELY EXCOMMUNICATE BIDEN, PELOSI AND SEBELIUS AND ANY OTHER HERETIC THAT ADVOCATES ABORTION AND SAME SEX DEPRAVITY…..40 years of blinders on the Church leaders who are AFRAID OF THE FEMINISTS GETTING IN THEIR FACE OR GETTING GLITTER BOMBED BY THE DEMONIC HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY…ENOUGH IS ENOUGH…this cancer has infested the entire Church and the Church leaders just want to get along…it doesn’t matter what you believe, what religion you believe in,..LETS JUST GET ALONG…ENOUGH OF THIS MADNESS…WE NEED A SLEW OF THE STRAIGHT TALKING ST. JOHN THE BAPTISTS TO CORRECT THIS INSANITY

Posted by Ron Nielsen on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 1:05 PM (EDT):

I’m sorry, There is no such thing as truly secular work being done by religious organizations. You can’t claim you are running a secular organization for purposes of obtaining state funding, and then claim that the requirement to provide contraception, abortion services, and marriage equality is somehow an impingement on your religious freedom at the same time.

Posted by Michael J Donnelly on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 12:55 PM (EDT):

The Democratic Party with no fear at all, removed all references to God from their official platform of the future party. The tiny exception placed into the plank at the last minute is nothing but a sham and could not truly garnish a winning vote anyway!

People of Faith and Values need to face the frightening reality that 2012 may well enter history as the final legal end of God’s presence from American law and national life.

The Christian people did little to stop this new American system of law from being put into place and what little we did was years too late!

The return of our country to “One Nation Under God” will not be soon or easy because both candidates drew their arguments from secular root. As the influence of Satan takes even deeper root, we need to consider deciding that we must ask God to lead us and forget all political leaders that are unwilling to serve under His banner!

Posted by Anne on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 12:15 PM (EDT):

God has been silent as we drift away from his teachings. Many Catholics believe they will not go to hell, I am not even sure they believe in hell, but for those who do they have been baptized, go to church and therefore their good. Their vote has no consequences, to them the bishops, priests, faithful religious are “out of touch” with the realities of life. They are in the know as to what God expects. A sister of mine claims to say the rosary, goes to church every Sun. (great place to socialize!),has been active in the parish, believes in abortion, esp. if the child is handicapped, has parents who are handicapped etc, believes in female priests, gay unions, people living together, re-marriage of divorced Catholics - you get the picture anything and everything secular. Considers herself a wonderful faithful, smart Catholic. I am sure to many of you reading this you have family members or friends that are similar. It is wonderful that He left us His body and blood and all the wonderful priests and religious but really right now we need Him.

Posted by DV on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 12:03 PM (EDT):

I am very disappointed in the catholic vote this election. A mojority voted for our current President and all that it entails as far as the life of the unborn and our religious freedom. i think the Bishops should do a better job to get the word out about our current politics. Our parish for example never addressed it.

Posted by P)hyllis Poole on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 11:24 AM (EDT):

I don’t see why all catholic entities need any of state or fed money! The Bishops appeal should stop! AND that money could be collected for religous groups that provide those services. The Bishops appeal is not getting the donations in our church because of the scanadal attached with it.
Too many are losing their jobs also and need the services of cath charities instead of giving to the appeal.
The Amish take care of their own only and are exempt from the “health care” bill. They will be “taken” by the gov. sooner or later however. The gov is already stepping in here and there to take their selling rights from them.
We are experiencing the next step of the Marxists.
IF WE DON’T PRAY AND ASK GOD TO INTERVENE IT WILL TAKE US OVER COMPLETELY AS IT HAS IN OTHER COUNTRIES -WE SHOULD HAVE LEARNED BY NOW! EVEN PEOPLE WHO COME FROM THOSE COUNTRIES ARE WARNING US! WHERE ARE OUR HEADS???
PLEASE GOD ENLIGHTEN YOUR “SHEEP”!!

Posted by Shirley Plush on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 11:06 AM (EDT):

As a Church we must seek God’s Wisdom and stand our ground. He will not desert us! No matter what the cost. We serve God’s people. We need to unify all Christians and people of faith to fight this discrimantion. If the government holds out funding, we will do the best we can to come up with needed funds. God will provide!

Posted by Robert Ward on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 10:58 AM (EDT):

If a law is the problem, repeal the law. That’s why you have a legislature. You don’t amend the constitution.

Posted by ninov on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 10:48 AM (EDT):

1 - Public schools don’t like Catholic schools because the good ones educate instead of institutionalize. They teach of a higher power than government, a trancendent. This doesn’t make one part of the dependant culture.
2 - All ye true Catholics, welcome to the minority. We are in it and we will get smaller and smaller. Abortion, contraception, freebies and attacks on religious liberty will all be the norm. 71% of hispanics voted democrat. Those aren’t Catholics. 41% of births are out of wedlock and growing, the mom’s all voted democrat. We are a shrinking and small minority.
3 - 40-50 years of horrible catechism in this country is not taking its toll. Those bishops are mostly long gone, but we now, have to live with the after effects of their inability to be obedient.
4 - I’m very grateful now, we have bishops that agree with Holy Mother Church and appear to be more in union with the Pope, our true leader on this earth. Viva il Papa!
5 - Stay strong my true Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, we know who ultimately wins, but he wins through the cross, not through politics or the sword. No Easter without Good Friday. It’ time to carry our cross!

Posted by Lawrence Beaton on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 10:19 AM (EDT):

So what is the bottom line for Florida?

Posted by ANNE on Thursday, Nov 8, 2012 6:55 AM (EDT):

Bishops, Priests and us Laity can not expect to EDUCATE most Catholics a few months prior to an election.
Exit polls showed that Catholic voters 50% to 47% voted for Obama; and approx 65 % to 35% percent of Latinos voted for Obama. (80% of Latinos in the USA call themselves Catholic.)
We must start the EDUCATION process immediately by:
1) Bishops must enforce Canon 915 and/or formal excommunication as necessary. Their SILENCE SCREAMS relativism, secularism, heresy, and schism - aiding and abetting SCANDAL which causes great confusion. (1 Cor 5:11-13).
2) Bishops, Priests and all of us must read and encourage others to read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” as instructed by Pope Benedict in Porta Fidei (Year of Faith). His instructions are quoted on the web site:
” What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE “.
Share the web site with others.
Purchase copies of the CCC and Catholic Bibles for Christmas gifts, birthday gifts, weddings, etc.
Prayer and Education. Prayer and Education. Prayer and Education. - - - This is what will help all Catholics to vote their Faith.

Posted by Jake on Wednesday, Nov 7, 2012 11:17 PM (EDT):

I don’t see how a marriage law is a breach of religious freadom so long as preists arnt required to preform services they don’t approve of.

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