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Re: What is Joe worth?

It's going to be an interesting OS all around. Quite a few decisions to make around $$$.

One item of note that will surely be a factor...the contract that Matt Ryan is going to get.

Matt Ryan has to do something he hasn't done yet, win a playoff game. Remember too he's had some klunker games this year as well including a 5 interception game. Matt Ryan's media "street cred" is all he still has right now.

Re: What is Joe worth?

1) Is Joe a top 10 QB? top 15?
2) If the answer to one of the questions above is "yes," does a franchise tag make any sense? (more of a rhetorical question)
3) What do we do if we let him test the FA market, and someone is willing to pay him "above market?"

Billick was talking about this earlier in the season and said you have your top QBs like the Mannings, Brees and Brady and then the next teir like Flacco, Ryan and Cutler.

Casserly who was the Ozzie of the 90s and gave Gibbs all those players and then was GM who set up Houston said last night Joe has improved this year because he is getting rid of the ball quicker and is more accurate.

Re: What is Joe worth?

It's hard not to be reactionary after an inexcusable loss like today's. However, I will try. Flacco has had 5 years in this league, and he is still having games like today's. He has these games too frequently for an elite QB. Those QBs have them perhaps once or twice, tops, in a season. Brees just had one this week. Rodgers had one a few weeks ago. Brady had one against the Ravens in the AFCCG. It's not going to happen often with those guys. But it keeps happening with Flacco. Nice couple of games, then two clunkers. Repeat. He has talent at receiver and the best RB in the league, too. Unless the OC is a complete moron, it's on Flacco.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Here's the thing though. In the end, Ozzie and Bisciotti aren't going to care what his QB rating is, or how many TD passes he's thrown. That's not what he's going to get paid for.

He is going to get paid based on the trend that since he was drafted he has won more games than any other QB in their first 5 years, and has been to more playoffs than any other QB in their first 5 years.

He will get paid based not just on the fact he proved he can win at home, on the road, and on the road in the playoffs; but on the fact they know the Ravens can go to the playoffs consistently with him as the QB.

He will get paid not based on his QB rating, but on the fact they can rely on him to make a 4th quarter comeback in a key situation when it's needed; as he has proven through his career he can do.

He isn't going to get paid based on just knowing Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff cost him a trip to the SuperBowl last year, but on the fact they believe he will continue to get them in a position to get to the SuperBowl, including this year.

So realistically, we can parse over stats and stuff like that all we want. The Ravens are going to pay Flacco by his wins and losses, and what they think he will continue to produce in that department for the next 6-8 years. And that's going to net him good money.

Joe has shown nothing to put him in the Manning, Brees, Brady class yet. More importantly though, he HAS shown beyond any doubt that he is a guy who can win talent around him. That proves he is no Kyle Boller, in fact he is a far superior QB then the endless stream of trash that blew through here till he was taken.

At the end of the day, the odds state the Ravens are unlikely to do better either through FA or the draft (crapshoot) and sure as hell could do a lot worse. That = getting paid

“A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,”
-Ray Lewis

Re: What is Joe worth?

There is a depressingly large amount of stupid people in this town who want to bench/cut/trade Flacco and take their chances with another rookie, some cast-off FA (Alex Smith seems to be the hot guy right now), or play Tyrod Taylor (seriously, visit any local Baltimore bar and you'll hear people calling for Tyrod after the first incompletion.)

Even so, outside of those idiots, a lot of people are in various states of "unconvinced" by Flacco. That's fine, and I think EVERYONE who has half a brain can agree that the Ravens would not be ill-served to give Joe a year under a different OC. So no matter what happens, the Ravens MUST get rid of Cam Cameron and install a new OC and a new playbook even if it's still a Coryell variant.

Franchise Flacco, give him a year under the new system, and see what the results are.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

There is a depressingly large amount of stupid people in this town who want to bench/cut/trade Flacco and take their chances with another rookie, some cast-off FA (Alex Smith seems to be the hot guy right now), or play Tyrod Taylor (seriously, visit any local Baltimore bar and you'll hear people calling for Tyrod after the first incompletion.)

Even so, outside of those idiots, a lot of people are in various states of "unconvinced" by Flacco. That's fine, and I think EVERYONE who has half a brain can agree that the Ravens would not be ill-served to give Joe a year under a different OC. So no matter what happens, the Ravens MUST get rid of Cam Cameron and install a new OC and a new playbook even if it's still a Coryell variant.

Franchise Flacco, give him a year under the new system, and see what the results are.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Joe is a good QB, but he will be overpaid as if he were a very good QB because the FO has left themselves with no choice.

Unlike other teams (a very few other teams) we have no proven experienced backup, nor a young backup QB with the physical skills and college record to strongly suggest he could develop into a quality NFL QB. As a Ravens fan I'd like to think Tyrod could be a sold NFL QB, but even after a full bottle of Tormaresco Puglia (DAMN good red) I am not irrational enough to believe that. If we do not overpay Joe, where are we at QB?

Re: What is Joe worth?

I like Flacco and hope he stays a Raven. But it does seem kinda dumb that the Ravens have no fallback option in his walk year. If i were Flacco I would test the waters. The Ravens need him more than he needs them. He would get top five money with the franchise tag if the Ravens go that route. If not some desperate team that thinks they are only a decent QB away from competing might overspend for him.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Originally Posted by houstonravensfan

Joe is a good QB, but he will be overpaid as if he were a very good QB because the FO has left themselves with no choice.

Unlike other teams (a very few other teams) we have no proven experienced backup, nor a young backup QB with the physical skills and college record to strongly suggest he could develop into a quality NFL QB. As a Ravens fan I'd like to think Tyrod could be a sold NFL QB, but even after a full bottle of Tormaresco Puglia (DAMN good red) I am not irrational enough to believe that. If we do not overpay Joe, where are we at QB?

I like Flacco and hope he stays a Raven. But it does seem kinda dumb that the Ravens have no fallback option in his walk year. If i were Flacco I would test the waters. The Ravens need him more than he needs them. He would get top five money with the franchise tag if the Ravens go that route. If not some desperate team that thinks they are only a decent QB away from competing might overspend for him.

What is this notion of teams having a "fallback option" at QB? Franchise QBs are so rare that despite dozens of them being drafted each year, there are realistically less than 20 of them in the NFL right now. There is NO team in the NFL that legitimately has 2 franchise QBs (And no, the 49ers do not, they don't even have 1 ACTUl franchise QB.)

Teams that have no QB have to get one and it's NOT an easy process at all. Most of them are 1st round picks, a few of them are high-dollar FAs that are a good bit older. This isn't some sort of unique thing, this is the modern NFL.

If the Ravens can't or won't lock up Flacco long-term, there's really no other option apart from mortgaging their future to get one in the draft a la Washington. Even then, there's absolutely no guarantee that draftee would be an upgrade on Flacco.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Flacco's not going anywhere.

If the Ravens let him go and he becomes an elite/near elite QB for some other team, leading them to a Super Bowl victory or 2--and especially if he consistently beats the Ravens when he plays us, then guess what happens to Harbs and maybe even Ozzie?

Re: What is Joe worth?

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

What is this notion of teams having a "fallback option" at QB? Franchise QBs are so rare that despite dozens of them being drafted each year, there are realistically less than 20 of them in the NFL right now. There is NO team in the NFL that legitimately has 2 franchise QBs (And no, the 49ers do not, they don't even have 1 ACTUl franchise QB.)

Teams that have no QB have to get one and it's NOT an easy process at all. Most of them are 1st round picks, a few of them are high-dollar FAs that are a good bit older. This isn't some sort of unique thing, this is the modern NFL.

If the Ravens can't or won't lock up Flacco long-term, there's really no other option apart from mortgaging their future to get one in the draft a la Washington. Even then, there's absolutely no guarantee that draftee would be an upgrade on Flacco.

Where did you read me say that we should have two franchise QBS? I said “a very few other teams" have an experienced backup. Did you hear about the game today? The Steelers had to play their second "experienced backup" because their first "experienced backup" was out. And here's a news flash for you: their 3rd string experienced backup beat us. Now for extra credit, here is a pop quiz: who is our third string QB? How many starts has he had? Too tough for you? How many pro starts has our 2nd string QB had? Beginning to see a thread of meaning here?

Re: What is Joe worth?

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

What is this notion of teams having a "fallback option" at QB? Franchise QBs are so rare that despite dozens of them being drafted each year, there are realistically less than 20 of them in the NFL right now. There is NO team in the NFL that legitimately has 2 franchise QBs (And no, the 49ers do not, they don't even have 1 ACTUl franchise QB.)

Teams that have no QB have to get one and it's NOT an easy process at all. Most of them are 1st round picks, a few of them are high-dollar FAs that are a good bit older. This isn't some sort of unique thing, this is the modern NFL.

If the Ravens can't or won't lock up Flacco long-term, there's really no other option apart from mortgaging their future to get one in the draft a la Washington. Even then, there's absolutely no guarantee that draftee would be an upgrade on Flacco.

This isn't true at all. The Patriots drafted a Mallet, 49ers Kaepernick, Seattle drafted Russel Wilson, even the Broncos just drafted a QB in the 2nd round. Its standard practice in this league to draft a QB in 2-3 rounds and try to develop them. If nothing else, you have a very good trade chip to strengthen your roster elsewhere since QB's are so valuable.

The Ravens can lock up Flacco but they really should have drafted someone in the past couple years to at least see what they could develop while Flacco matured.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Originally Posted by MoonwalkJenkins

This isn't true at all. The Patriots drafted a Mallet, 49ers Kaepernick, Seattle drafted Russel Wilson, even the Broncos just drafted a QB in the 2nd round. Its standard practice in this league to draft a QB in 2-3 rounds and try to develop them. If nothing else, you have a very good trade chip to strengthen your roster elsewhere since QB's are so valuable.

The Ravens can lock up Flacco but they really should have drafted someone in the past couple years to at least see what they could develop while Flacco matured.

Eggsactly. But we have the brain trust running the show that thought Kyle Boller and Anthony Wright was the way to go. Winning a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at QB was probably the worst thing that could ever happen to the Ravens. They somehow seem convinced they can still get by on the cheap with the guy who touches the ball on every offensive down.

Re: What is Joe worth?

Originally Posted by Kevlar

Eggsactly. But we have the brain trust running the show that thought Kyle Boller and Anthony Wright was the way to go. Winning a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at QB was probably the worst thing that could ever happen to the Ravens. They somehow seem convinced they can still get by on the cheap with the guy who touches the ball on every offensive down.