A TOP-RANKING US judge has stunned a conference of Australian judges and barristers in Chicago by advocating secret trials for terrorists, more surveillance of Muslim populations across North America and an end to counter-terrorism efforts being "hog-tied" by the US constitution.

Judge Richard Posner, a supposedly liberal-leaning jurist regarded by many as a future US Supreme Court candidate, said traditional concepts of criminal justice were inadequate to deal with the terrorist threat and the US had "over-invested" in them.

His proposed "big brother" solutions flabbergasted delegates at the Australian Bar Association's biennial conference, where David Hicks's lawyer, Major Michael Mori, is to be awarded honorary life membership.

"We have to fight terrorism with our strengths, and our strengths evolve around technology, including the technology of surveillance," said Justice Posner, a prolific legal scholar who sits on the US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.

"Are there terrorist plots that are at a formative stage among the large US Muslim community of two to three million people? In the 600,000 Canadian Muslim population, are there people planning attacks on the US?

"What we have to do is discover the extent of the terrorist threat to the US. There is a danger, and it demands a rethinking of some of our conventional views on the limits of national security measures.

"We should think of surveillance as preventative, not punitive. We should think of controls that have nothing to do with warrants or traditional criminal justice to prevent abuses."

Just as a little aside, the Australian Bar Association has its annual conference not in Australia (oh no) but as you can read, in some interesting overseas places (a couple of years ago it was Paris, France). Why? Because the attendees can claim their travel and accommodation expenses on their tax return. Of course they zip off for holidays as well......wouldn't you like to do that???

On Posner's remarks - I would think they would have gone over like a lead balloon with our judges and lawyers.

Just as a little aside, the Australian Bar Association has its annual conference not in Australia (oh no) but as you can read, in some interesting overseas places (a couple of years ago it was Paris, France). Why? Because the attendees can claim their travel and accommodation expenses on their tax return. Of course they zip off for holidays as well......wouldn't you like to do that???

On Posner's remarks - I would think they would have gone over like a lead balloon with our judges and lawyers.

Others will say: "His being Jewish has nothing to do with it. It's just a coincidence, and besides, you're a Nazi if you say something like that. You should crawl back under your rock, you racist slime." I'm less persuaded by this view these days.

Their a lot of liberal jews, liberals blacks, liberal whites, liberal asians, and liberals in general, what is your point?. You think jews control something . Im not calling you anything, Im simply asking you a question, and before you think im attacking you, ive defended you alot in the past.

Others will say: "His being Jewish has nothing to do with it. It's just a coincidence, and besides, you're a Nazi if you say something like that. You should crawl back under your rock, you racist slime." I'm less persuaded by this view these days.

Secret Trials are a BAD idea all round. Ignoring the Constitution is another bad idea. Have we not learned from history? We already have a set of secret trials now, people can be tried and deported that are not natural born citizens without ever even being informed they are being tried.

Start the process and where does it end? Today terrorists, in a couple years who and what gets added to the list?

Anyone that supports secret trials has no concept of our Constitution or our rights under the Constitution.

There are valid arguments to be made about what can and can not be used in trials ( I think to much gets thrown out for no good reason) and I think in certain instants security or secrecy should be enforced as best it can as needed. BUT the Justice system has to be open and in the public eye as MUCH as possible.

If you are a US Citizen or are caught in the US, the Constitution MUST apply.

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