Interesting therefore that the SNP is relying on …

Interesting therefore that the SNP is relying on these “weak” councillors to form an administration. Is that how the SNP group view their prospective fellow colleagues? I’m sure Councillors Philand and Freeman will note that view or perhaps have noted it already as evident in the proposed spokespersons /chair allocations. If ratified tomorrow the new SNP led administration will be heavily reliant on these so called “weak” independents not just to make the numbers up but to lend some wise counsel to what is a very inexperienced and not so unified group.

JayC also commented

Totally agree. The public should not forgot those elected reps who betrayed their communities …. Dunoon Ferry broken promises spring to mind!

That’s a relief, for a short while I thought we were going to be denied the opportunity of witnessing a few of the educated, experienced and highly principled “New Dawn” in action. CSB if you’re looking for a home for your popcorn I suggest the MAKI area, the Area meetings will be well worth watching…. Robert maybe even worth the walk into town when being held in Lochgilphead -watch you dont get knocked down tho.

If an Independent uses their Kingmaker status to secure an investment in their own area or to immediately address their constituents area of concern and joins the “empire” as a result then that’s politics. I’m sure people (their own constituents) will remember them but not for the reasons suggested on here. I’m surprised that none of the other independents have used this tactic, maybe a tad naive. Also perhaps the rather unfortunate published spokespersons list just reinforced the fact that in an SNP coalition there were really just making up the numbers. Squeaky bum time as Sir Alex would say!

School Meals saga: Council distorts facts and blocks Martha’s blog: You miss the point -LA’s and A & BC are already tied into national contracts in a number of cases. Individual service area and establishment expenditure is bundled together as a total authority expenditure and then in some cases further grouped in Public Sector expenditure. A tender is then created for whatever the goods or services are and a preferred or approved provider choosen. It is that supplier that MUST be used. So you quote from the handbook and interpret in whatever way you want – the scenario outlined above is representative of how it works in practice. Incidentally your handbook is somewhat out of date and the 2012 version is available. There been a few SSI’s passed since then.

School Meals saga: Council distorts facts and blocks Martha’s blogAgain check the detail and you’ll find that LA’s are tied into national agreements accross a range of goods and services. You must buy paper from X, you must buy meat from Y. Best Value, Value for Money, it’s all about more for less and if you think any different then your kidding yourself on.

School Meals saga: Council distorts facts and blocks Martha’s blogPrivate / Public legislation is totally different. If as a private restuarant manager I want to source local produce, say fish, I simply go to the local supplier, choose the finest on display and can even negoitate the price. However, if I as the local catering manager want to do the same, I pick from the supplier on the approved list and it’s shipped to me at a pre-set price and I have to assume it’s meeting a minimum standard in terms of quality. These are realities of bundling contracts together -economies of scale versus local economies.

School Meals saga: Council distorts facts and blocks Martha’s blogTotally agree re quality produce on our doorstep however we also have government and european imposed procurement restrictions which sadly prevents local produce being purchased as it is not competetive in pure finance terms. (not something I agree with as I’m all for keeping the Argyll pound in Argyll and fully acknowledge all the soci -eco benefits). I’m afraid until such times as monies are allowed to be expended in a sensible manner then the “brake bros” of this world will continue to win tenders and mass supply organisations. However, you are in the right party to get it sorted Anne so…….

111 Responses to Interesting therefore that the SNP is relying on …

It’s like some science fiction saga where just when everyone thinks that the heroic space ship crew have finally banished the sinister invaders and their moronic footsoldiers, they emerge from the shadows to do battle once more.

I’m sure that I am not alone in being appalled at the thought of the Alliance and its political carpetbaggers being back in power at Kilmory. Another five years of incompetence and conflict?

Let us hope that any of the councillors who may be wavering in their support of the Coalition pour some cold water onto their faces and realise just how low their reputations will become if they support the Ancien Regime represented by Cllr Walsh and his cronies.

I really hope this rumour is untrue. The alternative is just too depressing for words.

I am not at all surprised. Indeed, some mistook my analysis for cynicism when I commented on 7 May, as people where getting excited about Roddy’s claims of 20 members in his coalition:

“I would not be so hasty. Mr Walsh has, in the past, shown himself to be a very shrewd operator. And it is not unheard of for people who did think they would go with one grouping to then change their minds.”

So many councillors have such a long history of jumping ship. Indeed, few have a strong credo or set of beliefs that anchors them firmly. This heralds five years of instability, in my view. Probably the worst of all worlds.

Deadlock might be resolved by all agreeing to put aside block voting and acting democratically in the public interest on each issue – too much to hope for? I’ve never understood the logic of allowing political party labels in local elections…..

Perhaps the SNP leader was a bit hasty in announcing his administration before the Dunoon Ward result. SNP dominated responsibility and the 4 local area committes. Independents and the Tory/Argyll First councillor may not be to happy if not fully involved in the allocation of these positions. Would have thought that the deputy leader would have come from the Independents, Tory/Argyll First and/or even a Chair or V/Chair of at least one Area Committe would have been fairer.

Apart from anything else, why do we have to wait 19 days from the election on 3 May to the first Council meeting on 22 May (19 DAYS!!) to get anything going?

Please could someone invent the telephone, or the internet, or fast broadband (wish), or video conferencing, or even next-day delivery by post. But 19 days, even to sit down to discuss the question. Humm.

Interesting therefore that the SNP is relying on these “weak” councillors to form an administration. Is that how the SNP group view their prospective fellow colleagues? I’m sure Councillors Philand and Freeman will note that view or perhaps have noted it already as evident in the proposed spokespersons /chair allocations. If ratified tomorrow the new SNP led administration will be heavily reliant on these so called “weak” independents not just to make the numbers up but to lend some wise counsel to what is a very inexperienced and not so unified group.

The good councillors now have the chance to give Argyll and Bute a changed and progressive council. Think hard any councillor who has changed his mind especially for financial gain. The electorate should monitor tomorrow very carefully and take note of any individuals who have changed their MIND

If an Independent uses their Kingmaker status to secure an investment in their own area or to immediately address their constituents area of concern and joins the “empire” as a result then that’s politics. I’m sure people (their own constituents) will remember them but not for the reasons suggested on here. I’m surprised that none of the other independents have used this tactic, maybe a tad naive. Also perhaps the rather unfortunate published spokespersons list just reinforced the fact that in an SNP coalition there were really just making up the numbers. Squeaky bum time as Sir Alex would say!

Far more likely will be that someone jumps ship because despite being a brand new councillor they are unhappy that they haven’t been given a position which increases their salary beyond the standard councillor wage.

I tend to agree with Tim’s assessment that the worst case scenario is a 19-17 split in favour of the SNP coalition and, if that is the case, anyone that walked due to promises from Walsh will have no more money and will have thrown away their oportunity to represent the people who voted for them at the top table.

The rumour mill is indeed active at the moment with indications that one councillor has left the Coalition “as there was no money in it”. Good to see that he entered politics for the right reasons. However, I’m sure he will feel comfortable with the Alliance.

However, as Tim’s list shows, the Alliance also need to have swung one of three principled councillors to their side (Cllrs Freeman, Robertson and Iain MacDonald). Few things surprise me these days but the defection of any of these three would do just that. I need my laptop so I’m not going to offer to eat mine if one of them does turn.

And yes, the thought of another five years of divisive, incompetent, money-wasting, pork-barrel flavoured maladministration under the leadership of Cllr Walsh does indeed fill me with despair though I can see why you may not share those sentiments “Simon”. We will wait and see.

I’m a bit lost here, what has Cllr Walsh got to offer? I would of thought unless Walsh can get all four of them over he isn’t going to be in a position to offer any inducements as the SNP will still be the largest group on the Council, albeit possibly governing as a minority coalition.

If three of these Councillors decide to join Dick the scores will effectively be 18-18. As the largest political group the SNP will be offered the first opportunity to form a group to govern. I am guessing they will take this opportunity.

If the SNP go ahead and propose Strong as Provost the voting obviously goes to 17-18 but even then Dicky can’t offer the inducements as he isn’t in power. Of course, the SNP could withhold proposing Strong for Provost! Either way Dickie isn’t in a position to offer anything as he won’t be in power, it will still be an SNP led coalition.

So effectively what the three waivering Councillors are considering is, do I join Dick effectively paralysing politics in Argyll and Bute for the foreseeable future. Remaining impotent in opposition and reducing local politics to a bun fight where there will be no winners only losers (or financial gain).

Or join a Coalition that will be able to govern effectively with an appropriate working majority. Providing Argyll and Bute the opportunity to continue to move forward and develop.

If they are truly independent councillors who only want to put the interests of Argyll and Bute first, only one choice really… If they decide not to make that choice and effectively become individually responsible for crippling Argyll and Bute for the next four years! Hope they have broad shoulders.

Lol, ain’t it always. The thing is though, I don’t think Dick is in a position to offer them any money. Unless all four of them go over to him he won’t have a majority and won’t be leader, therefore can’t offer inducements.

Now, unless hell has frozen over in Lorn the SNP coalition will have at least 18 councillors, that gives McCuish the right to become leader and decide who gets what posts.

I think Phil has probably put his finger on it – the premature pronouncement, promotion and appointment of untested, inexperienced and newly elected councillors to very senior positions has probably given some experienced councillors cause to pause and reflect.

That’s a relief, for a short while I thought we were going to be denied the opportunity of witnessing a few of the educated, experienced and highly principled “New Dawn” in action. CSB if you’re looking for a home for your popcorn I suggest the MAKI area, the Area meetings will be well worth watching…. Robert maybe even worth the walk into town when being held in Lochgilphead -watch you dont get knocked down tho.

Walking into Lochgilphead from Castleton along the A83 would almost guarantee getting knocked down, hence my outrage at Councillor Donnie Macmillan’s hostility to the idea of a footpath (partly on Council land).

Can I make it clear that my position and that of Cllr Robert MacIntyre from Lomond North has not changed and will not change. We remain committed to the proposed new administartion with the SNP, Argyll First and Cllrs Robertson and MacDonald.

The Alliance have been trying every trick in the book to try and increase their numbers without success. They have even been phoning Bily Petrie asking if he wiould do their dirty work for them. Certain Alliance members have even been phoning one Independent member to try and get them to joing the Alliance while at the same time, theyu have been asking if their is a position for them in the proposed new administration. Two faced if you ask me but not surprising.

The majority remains at 20 – 16 and will still be that way tomorrow. I hope that this helps to reassure everyone that the old ConDemAll aministration is dead and buried.

It is to be expected that the old and discredited administration would try every trick in the book and a few outside it to cling to power- why would they change in a few weeks – but I believe that genuine pledges have been made by those who seek to form the new administration and that those will be honoured : see what I mean -a new and differing ball game from Day One.

However such tacticsas we are hearing reported ; lies, threats and shameless inducements, expose the principals as people wholly without principles and we should all take note of that behaviour and determine that their departure from the bridge will be permanent.

I fear it’ll only be permanent if people in some corners of Argyll wake up to reality and stop voting tribally. It’s bad enough when this has happened with postal voting in ethnic areas of large cities.

I can’t believe what I am reading. I have always been suspicious of ‘Independent’ councillors and how with so much ease they so quickly change allegiance but this takes the biscuit. The fact that they would agree to a coalition one week with one group…..a group I hasten to add who, through the number of seats won clearly shows how we the people of Argyll want and need change. How can we go back to such an incompetent administration, not just incompetent, but have been seen through the Garelochead bus affair to have been legally incompetent. The Kilcreggan ferry is yet another affair when they were seen to have been impotent..and don’t even mention the schools fiasco! I have done a lot of praying in my time…so I guess it’s time to get on my knees again!!! We need an administration that will take control and not be controlled by others with agenda’s. I do hope the Independents who were brave enough to go for this bold new administration will stick to their guns and not be bought off.

Something similar had occurred to me David (damned vampires keep coming back from unexpected directions!).

It would be useful to hear from someone from Argyll First to reassure us that they are firm with the Coalition so we can all sleep well tonight.

That said, the thought that Argyll First would abandon their principled position and their commitment to the Coalition is perhaps even more unlikely than a volte face by any of the other possibilities.

If anything in Argyll and Bute is unthinkable it is that Argyll First would welsh on an agreement they would have considered carefully before making – and they were the first to go into this coalition. We wouldn’t insult them by asking.

Although I feel reassured by Cllr Freeman’s post, especially in relation to Cllr Robert MacIntyre’s position, as Dr McKenzie said it would be good to hear from Argyll First.

Councillor R MacIntyre makes it 18, nicely secures the leadership for Cllr McCuish but just to make sure there will be a working majority, it would also be good to hear from anyone who has contacts with Cllr MacDonald or Cllr Robertson.

I take it Councillor MacDougall was too stupid to figure out who would be in control of the purse strings.

There’s no way the Argyll First lads would work with the Alliance of Independents. It’s not going to happen.

Cllr MacDonald said that hell would freeze over before he’d work with them and when he said it I swear the wind whistled through the building. Rock solid.

I don’t know Cllr Robertson well enough to judge but by all accounts she’s never been known for saying one thing and doing another. She commands the respect of most and I think I’ll dare to hope she sticks with the progressives.

Councillor Donald Kelly’s political future will be decided tomorrow . Join the SNP coalition and he will never again be allowed to stand as the Conservative and Unionist candidate , indeed he will have a Conservative and Unionist candidate to fight at the next election ,with the result either a knockout of Kelly or a split vote and Kelly is out with his reputation in tatters . Do what his voters expect tomorrow ,ie vote against the SNP and he will be assured of victory at the next election and be secure as a councillor for as long as he wishes .

That would be a first for any councillor of what ever persuasion. Time we took political parties out of local politics and brought back and gave more power to town and community councils with the county looking after infrastructure and other common areas. Power as local as possible. That would get rid of the mini-West Lothian question when councillors with no local knowledge, interest, or experience voting on issues which are detrimental to another town or community.

This conveniently ignores the fact that the departing administration, who few would describe as effective or efficient and certainly not in touch with the electors, was largely made up of supposedly non-party affiliated councillors. I know many councillors of varying political persuasions and of none, in Argyll & Bute and elsewhere, who serve to the very best of their ability and work long hours on behalf of their communities and the general good. If KayBee thinks they can do better he, or she, should either put up or shut up.

Was the departing administration not supported by the snp group until they were encouraged otherwise by whoever?

For the most part it was a mostly independent/snp council, are you seriously suggesting how effective or efficient the council was run was determined by the snp being part of that administration or not?

The electors are certainly in touch with this information and also recognize hard working councillors.

To my knowledge the case of Councillor Donald Kelly is unprecedented . Elected under the Conservative and Unionist banner , he refuses to join his fellow party councillors’ group , advises the electorate in Dunoon to vote SNP when there is a Conservative and Unionist candidate standing and now stands on the threshold of handing power in Argyll & Bute to the SNP who have 13 councillors against 23 non SNP

In North Ayrshire the sole Tory elected was asked how he could vote with the snp (now the largest party by 1) He answered that the previous lot had been in charge for 20 years and did nothing for the area so his decision was easy. Let’s hope the Alliance is defeated. I would have thought that they would be busy enough being JP’s etc !!

Hamish There is amajor difference with North Ayrshire in that the 4 Tory Councillors in Argyll and Bute would be on opposite of the Council. Imagine if the 13 SNP councillors were split 9-4 as four wanted to serve their local area in Bute and Cowal! There would be expulsions either the 9 or the 4. Standing before the voters on a Party ticket requires discipline based on the manifesto of the local party.

‘discipline based on the manifesto of the local party’ – and what if there’s direct conflict between this manifesto and what’s clearly in the best interests of your local constituency – you tell them that’s their problem, they voted for a political party first and foremost?

The SNP/Tory/Independent/Frank Coalition looks solid enough at the moment but Frank’s comment shows the cracks already on the lack of common political values. Frank, if elected an independent why join any group? How long will such a coalition last if depending on the likes of money grubbing Franks ot turncoat Tories. 6 months?

If only………………the Alliance of Independent Councillors realised that they weren’t a party & could abandon Trickie Dickie & get on with representing the voters who elected them. Is it too late for redemption or have they passed the point of no return? Would they have the guts as per George Freeman?

For those of them who lack integrity (and I don’t just mean in the matter of enthusiastic destruction of primary schools) it’s surely too late for redemption, and it’s an indictment of their constituents that they’ve still been re-elected.

To be fair Robert, most people don’t take much interest in politics and vote on the information they have to hand. Dick Walsh, for instance, does a grand job looking after folk in his ward and an awful lot of people think he’s a great guy. Given the trouble that other councillors and interested parties, e.g. ARSN, had trying to get information from the council, you have to forgive the general public for not knowing what’s gone on.

I was thinking of at least two councillors who are very familiar figures in their community, great hand-shakers, have the apparent earnestness of Jack Straw, and have probably concluded that their repeat re-election in the face of serial and blatant infidelity to that community means that their electorate are a bunch of blindly loyal numbskulls.

I would be very surprised if there is not some changes announced tomorrow.The old rumour factory is just not happy with Louise Glen-Lee.But it might be just jealousy we will wait and see, as for the rest don,t loose any sleep over it.Walsh is the only player and he has no where to go. Power to People.

Another day – another rumour. So, what’s today’s scuttlebuttfest then newsie?? Mary Jean leaves the SNP (again..) Jim Robb is for turning? Tricky has been asked by McCuish to join his rag-bag nose-in-trough alliance?

And btw newsie – unless the rag-bag alliance (snp, some independents, a turncoat tory (who will be voting in opposition ot this Tory colleagues) and some indepepdnents) have actually foregone their additional responisbility allownaces – just when are we going to get your usual ‘noses-in trough’ and ‘bought for 30 pieces of silver’ article?? That together with ‘just how much extra it’s going to cost the council tax payer for the rag-bag alliance to invent new spokersperson posts because there weren’t enough to go around’?

Or do you only do those articles when it suits you politically??

Have a nice day

Ps “doc” that wasn’t ‘schadenfreude’ that was just me laughing at you and the usuals suspects’ acute discomfiture at the very thought that mibbie wee Tricky had actually swung it…. pps Still might.. ???

Argyll First stood as Independents and Tory there was absolutely nothing on the ballot paper about a first or second. To be fair to the SNP they did not deviate from there main focus which is independence .It is unfortunate that those who voted for an independent candidate were conned when their choice jumped on to support the SNP as was probably agreed before a vote was cast. Credibility ??????

Sandy Taylor the new SNP man wants to head up the planning and licensing committee so he can get back at those who didn’t give him the main job when he left the council.

McAlpine , Philand and Kelly refused to go on any working committees before as they all had jobs and resigned from the executive committee for the same.

There is a bunch of older ones that were on that committee who should really start taking it easy. Robertson was on the gravy train in the Alliance with nhs highland and the dosh for doing it and the betting is that she has been promised to continue if she jumped ship.

Freeman will want his housing remit back although he was useless and held in contempt by the housing associations there has been more down in housing since he finished.

The new MacDonald guy is an architect and it will be interesting to see if he wants a spot on the planning committee to have a pop !

Speaking of planning will Dance do the legal thing and get out of planning as her partner is a planning consultant = not good ?

The former police inspector Fred Halls will want to be on the police board to have a pop at Strathclyde and the former journalist Louisa Lee will want to have her nose in everything (once a snoop for a scoop always a …..)

If maybe the old school would work with the new pupils and all the agendas were dumped whether it be Roddie or Dick or both can’t we just get on with it.

One has to ask where the LibDems are in this piece. They say that they are a “progressive” party yet don’t want to take part in a “progressive” alliance.

Surely after their experience with the previous “regressive” alliance they would jump at the chance of supporting the progressive alternative.

They are working with SNP and Scottish Labour led administrations (e.g.Highland Council) the length and breadth of Scotland yet don’t seem to want to work with the SNP here. Surely compromise is in the nature of local politics – get the best deal for your constituents and fight their corner for them without compromising your core principles.

So, are they progressive or are they just Tories in sheep’s clothing?

I haven’t seen any statement from them or the Tories saying which core principles would be compromised by working with the Progressive Alliance.

Perhaps they and the Tories are concerned that the, no doubt, passionate and hard fought referendum debate over the next two and a bit years could sour working relationships. If so they should say so.

Perhaps it is the SNP or their partners that are uncompromising and getting in the way of a deal?

Surely it is better to either thrash out a deal with the largest group and rule out the uncertainty or make a clear statement as to why you can’t achieve a deal so that we all understand why?

My guess is that the SNP would not be willing to work with the current crop of local Lib Dems and I can understand that entirely.

If they are confident they have the necessary numbers for the new coalition to become the new administration then I see no reason to do a deal with councillors who they have little respect for or trust in.

On today’s BBC1 teletext Reform Scotland are suggesting that the number of councils be reduced from 32 to 19. I would go a step further and ditch ALL 32 councils and bring back Regional Authorities and NO District Councils. Scotland with a population of 5 Million is not big enough to sustain all these councils. However nothing will change as it is a case of self preservation as far as the current councils and their elected councillors are concerned. Our elected councillors feel important in their own council area and they would not like to become a wee fish in a big pool despite the obvious savings that can be made with the regionalisation of our councils.

The Lib-Dems will power share with anyone that will have them. Labour at the Scottish Parliament and now the Conservatives at Westminster because it is the only way that they can be in a position of power. The Lib-Dems will never be large enough to govern on their own hence the reason that they are keen on proportional representation.

Now is the time for all the decent councillors to put Argyll and Bute first not their own interests. They need to work together to ensure we get a local government worthy of the name not the previous nepotistic self interested performance by individuals only interested in what they can get out of the pot for themselves.