From [email protected] Wed Jun 29 13:30:27 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Camilla Cracchiolo)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,sci.med,sci.med.aids,bionet.immunology
Subject: RFD: sci.med.immunology
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 29 Jun 1994 10:52:40 -0400
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
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Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5296 news.groups:107439 sci.med:91381 sci.med.aids:10480 bionet.immunology:1527
********************************************************************
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
sci.med.immunology
********************************************************************
This is a formal Request for Discussion regarding the formation of
a sci.med group to discuss immunology and immune related diseases.
This is *not* a Call For Votes. A Call For Votes will be issued in
the groups to which this message is posted 21 to 30 days from the date
that this message first appears, assuming that no serious problems
with the newsgroup proposal are noted. Voting is to be recorded by a
neutral third party.
Follow-up should be directed to news.groups.
Name: sci.med.immunology
Status: unmoderated
Distribution: worldwide
Proposed by: Camilla Cracchiolo, RN ([email protected])
Description:
The purpose of this group is to discuss all aspects of immunology
and immune-related diseases, with a special emphasis on the diagnosis
and treatment of immune related illnesses; and on new research findings
in these areas.
Topics appropriate to this newsgroup include but are not limited to:
Physiology of the immune system and basic immune research
The causes of immune related illnesses
The diagnosis and treatment of such illnesses as HIV disease,
lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue syndrome,
fibromyalgia syndrome, and allergies of all kinds
The immune aspects of illnesses not generally classified as
primarily immune, but which have significant immune involvement
including cancer, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, and serious
infectious illnesses
Psychoneuroimmunology and the impact of emotional state on the
immune system
The relationship between the endocrine and immune systems and the
impact of this on illness and health
Sleep disorders and their relationship to the immune system
The impact of diet and exercise on the immune system both in
health and illness
How the workplace impacts on immune illness
Immunologic therapies such as vaccines and allergy desenstization
Immunologic treatment for cancer
Immunomodulating drugs and the impact of medications on the immune
system
Psychosocial aspects of immune related illness
This group is not intended to be a primary emotional support forum
for patients, although I anticipate that people with immune related
illnesses will help one another through sharing information and
experiences.
Background and rationale:
There appears to be a great deal of interest in immunology and immune
related diseases on the Internet. There several patient support
newsgroups related to various immune related illnesses (alt.med.cfs,
alt.med.asthma, alt.support.allergies, alt.support.arthritis,
alt.support.cancer and alt.support.mult-sclerosis); a newsgroup
devoted to AIDS and HIV disease (sci.med.aids); and several extremely
active mailing lists on immune issues: the Immune list, the fibromyalgia
syndrome mailing list and psychoneuroimmunology mailing list. In addition,
many questions about immune related illnesses such as lupus, asthma and
allergies are posted every week to sci.med.
However, there is no place where patients and physicians can meet
to discuss the scientific and clinical aspects of immune illnesses
in general. The group bionet.immunology is devoted to highly technical
questions relating to immune research. Many patients have complained
that they have posted questions there and never received an answer.
Immunologic researchers on bionet.immunology have explained that
most of them are not MDs, and therefore do not feel comfortable addressing
the kinds of concerns people with these illnesses raise.
Thus, one of the purposes of this newsgroup is to provide a place
where an overview of the immune system and immunologic illness can
be discussed.
Feedback prior to posting this formal RFD was overwhelming positive
>from both physicians and patients. Many physicians expressed great
interest in this subject and stated that they would closely follow such a
newsgroup.
This group has been proposed in accordance with the guidelines in
"How to Create a Usenet Newsgroup". It has been sent to the fibromyalgia,
immune and psychoneuroimmunology mailing lists.
--
Camilla Cracchiolo, RN [email protected] Los Angeles, CA
Shrine of the Cybernetic Madonna BBS 213-766-1356
"The BBS for the information addict!"
From [email protected] Thu Aug 4 15:38:43 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Dave Cornejo)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.med.allergy,alt.med.cfs,alt.med.fibromyalgia,alt.support.arthritis,alt.support.asthma,misc.health.alternative,sci.med,sci.psychology
Subject: CFV: sci.med.immunology
Followup-To: poster
Date: 4 Aug 1994 15:19:34 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 95
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 26 Aug 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5456 news.groups:111292 alt.med.allergy:758 alt.med.cfs:7342 alt.med.fibromyalgia:2130 alt.support.arthritis:1006 alt.support.asthma:804 misc.health.alternative:11203 sci.med:94850 sci.psychology:25817
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group sci.med.immunology
Newsgroups line:
sci.med.immunology Medical/scientific aspects of immune illness.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 25 August 1994.
This CFV will also be posted on the Immune mailing list at
[email protected] and the psychoneuroimmunology mailing list at
[email protected] It will also appear in the CFS News.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Dave Cornejo <[email protected]>. For questions
about the proposed group please contact Camilla Cracchiolo
<[email protected]>. Writing the vote taker about immunology will
get you nowhere :-)
CHARTER
The purpose of this group is to discuss all aspects of immunology and
immune-related diseases, with a special emphasis on the diagnosis and
treatment of immune related illnesses; and on new research findings in
these areas. This group will not be moderated.
Topics appropriate to this newsgroup include but are not limited to:
Physiology of the immune system and basic immune research
The causes of immune related illnesses
The diagnosis and treatment of such illnesses as HIV disease,
lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue syndrome,
fibromyalgia syndrome, and allergies of all kinds
The immune aspects of illnesses not generally classified as
primarily immune, but which have significant immune involvement
including cancer, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, and serious
infectious illnesses
Psychoneuroimmunology and the impact of emotional state on the
immune system
The relationship between the endocrine and immune systems and the
impact of this on illness and health
Sleep disorders and their relationship to the immune system
The impact of diet and exercise on the immune system both in
health and illness
How the workplace impacts on immune illness
Immunologic therapies such as vaccines and allergy desenstization
Immunologic treatment for cancer
Immunomodulating drugs and the impact of medications on the immune
system
Psychosocial aspects of immune related illness
This group is not intended to be a primary emotional support forum for
patients, although it is anticipated that people with immune related
illnesses will help one another through sharing information and
experiences.
There appears to be a great deal of interest in immunology and immune
related diseases on the Internet. However, there is no place where
patients and physicians can meet to discuss the scientific and
clinical aspects of immune illnesses in general. Both physicians and
people who suffer from immune illnesses, as well as immunologic
researchers, have expressed great interest in a group that would
provide an overview of the immune system, with an emphasis on clinical
immunology.
HOW TO VOTE
Send MAIL to: [email protected]
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing
list. It is important that you have the group name spelled correctly
in the subject line of your vote, otherwise your vote may not be
routed properly.
Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
I vote YES on sci.med.immunology
I vote NO on sci.med.immunology
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the
outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting
program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a
personal acknowledgement by mail - if you do not receive one within
several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your
vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. No votes
will be accepted from system accounts (i.e. root, news, uucp) or
anonymous accounts. Addresses and votes of all voters will be
published in the final voting results list.
--
Dave Cornejo There is nothing so subtle
Dogwood Media as the obvious
Fremont, California
From [email protected] Tue Aug 16 16:36:10 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Dave Cornejo)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.med.allergy,alt.med.cfs,alt.med.fibromyalgia,alt.support.arthritis,alt.support.asthma,misc.health.alternative,sci.med,sci.psychology
Subject: 2nd CFV: sci.med.immunology
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:16:32 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 100
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Expires: 26 Aug 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5517 news.groups:112674 alt.med.allergy:793 alt.med.cfs:7661 alt.med.fibromyalgia:2743 alt.support.arthritis:1054 alt.support.asthma:894 misc.health.alternative:11652 sci.med:96245 sci.psychology:26217
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group sci.med.immunology
Newsgroups line:
sci.med.immunology Medical/scientific aspects of immune illness.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 25 August 1994.
This CFV will also be posted on the Immune mailing list at
[email protected] and the psychoneuroimmunology mailing list at
[email protected] It will also appear in the CFS News.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Dave Cornejo <[email protected]>. For questions
about the proposed group please contact Camilla Cracchiolo
<[email protected]>. Writing the vote taker about immunology will
get you nowhere :-)
CHARTER
The purpose of this group is to discuss all aspects of immunology and
immune-related diseases, with a special emphasis on the diagnosis and
treatment of immune related illnesses; and on new research findings in
these areas. This group will not be moderated.
Topics appropriate to this newsgroup include but are not limited to:
Physiology of the immune system and basic immune research
The causes of immune related illnesses
The diagnosis and treatment of such illnesses as HIV disease,
lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue syndrome,
fibromyalgia syndrome, and allergies of all kinds
The immune aspects of illnesses not generally classified as
primarily immune, but which have significant immune involvement
including cancer, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, and serious
infectious illnesses
Psychoneuroimmunology and the impact of emotional state on the
immune system
The relationship between the endocrine and immune systems and the
impact of this on illness and health
Sleep disorders and their relationship to the immune system
The impact of diet and exercise on the immune system both in
health and illness
How the workplace impacts on immune illness
Immunologic therapies such as vaccines and allergy desenstization
Immunologic treatment for cancer
Immunomodulating drugs and the impact of medications on the immune
system
Psychosocial aspects of immune related illness
This group is not intended to be a primary emotional support forum for
patients, although it is anticipated that people with immune related
illnesses will help one another through sharing information and
experiences.
There appears to be a great deal of interest in immunology and immune
related diseases on the Internet. However, there is no place where
patients and physicians can meet to discuss the scientific and
clinical aspects of immune illnesses in general. Both physicians and
people who suffer from immune illnesses, as well as immunologic
researchers, have expressed great interest in a group that would
provide an overview of the immune system, with an emphasis on clinical
immunology.
HOW TO VOTE
Send MAIL to: [email protected]
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing
list. It is important that you have the group name spelled correctly
in the subject line of your vote, otherwise your vote may not be
routed properly.
Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
I vote YES on sci.med.immunology
I vote NO on sci.med.immunology
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the
outcome. Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting
program. The votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a
personal acknowledgement by mail - if you do not receive one within
several days, try again. It's your responsibility to make sure your
vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. No votes
will be accepted from system accounts (i.e. root, news, uucp) or
anonymous accounts. Addresses and votes of all voters will be
published in the final voting results list.
BOUNCED ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:
(no need to revote)
[email protected] (Judy Wood)
[email protected] (Mark Worrell)
--
Dave Cornejo There is nothing so subtle
Dogwood Media as the obvious
Fremont, California
From [email protected] Wed Aug 31 12:49:03 1994
Path: uunet!bounce-back
From: [email protected] (Dave Cornejo)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.med.allergy,alt.med.cfs,alt.med.fibromyalgia,alt.support.arthritis,alt.support.asthma,misc.health.alternative,sci.med,sci.psychology
Subject: RESULT: sci.med.immunology passes 242:6
Supersedes: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 30 Aug 1994 15:25:29 -0400
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 361
Sender: [email protected]
Approved: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: uunet news.announce.newgroups:5566 news.groups:114454 alt.med.allergy:891 alt.med.cfs:8090 alt.med.fibromyalgia:3514 alt.support.arthritis:1192 alt.support.asthma:1001 misc.health.alternative:12453 sci.med:98065 sci.psychology:26647
RESULT
unmoderated group sci.med.immunology passes 242:6
There were 242 YES votes and 6 NO votes, for a total of 248 valid votes.
There was 1 abstain and 9 invalid ballots.
For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
sci.med.immunology Medical/scientific aspects of immune illness.
This CFV was also posted on the Immune mailing list at
[email protected] and the psychoneuroimmunology mailing list at
[email protected] It will also appear in the CFS News.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact Dave Cornejo <[email protected]>. For questions
about the proposed group please contact Camilla Cracchiolo
<[email protected]>. Writing the vote taker about immunology will
get you nowhere :-)
CHARTER
The purpose of this group is to discuss all aspects of immunology and
immune-related diseases, with a special emphasis on the diagnosis and
treatment of immune related illnesses; and on new research findings in
these areas. This group will not be moderated.
Topics appropriate to this newsgroup include but are not limited to:
Physiology of the immune system and basic immune research
The causes of immune related illnesses
The diagnosis and treatment of such illnesses as HIV disease,
lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue syndrome,
fibromyalgia syndrome, and allergies of all kinds
The immune aspects of illnesses not generally classified as
primarily immune, but which have significant immune involvement
including cancer, multiple sclerosis, diabetes, and serious
infectious illnesses
Psychoneuroimmunology and the impact of emotional state on the
immune system
The relationship between the endocrine and immune systems and the
impact of this on illness and health
Sleep disorders and their relationship to the immune system
The impact of diet and exercise on the immune system both in
health and illness
How the workplace impacts on immune illness
Immunologic therapies such as vaccines and allergy desenstization
Immunologic treatment for cancer
Immunomodulating drugs and the impact of medications on the immune
system
Psychosocial aspects of immune related illness
This group is not intended to be a primary emotional support forum for
patients, although it is anticipated that people with immune related
illnesses will help one another through sharing information and
experiences.
There appears to be a great deal of interest in immunology and immune
related diseases on the Internet. However, there is no place where
patients and physicians can meet to discuss the scientific and
clinical aspects of immune illnesses in general. Both physicians and
people who suffer from immune illnesses, as well as immunologic
researchers, have expressed great interest in a group that would
provide an overview of the immune system, with an emphasis on clinical
immunology.
sci.med.immunology Final Vote Ack
Voted Yes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Julie Carter (S&T OnSite)
[email protected] Anand Raman
[email protected] Jan Tredway
[email protected] Elaine Boulay
[email protected] Adele Bourque
[email protected] Adria Anuzis Brown
[email protected] Nigel Allen
[email protected][email protected] LADY ANNA
[email protected] Alice Aman
[email protected][email protected][email protected] Anna Carlile
[email protected] Ashley Allerton
[email protected][email protected] Jim Ault
[email protected] Keith Austin
[email protected] Beverly Erlebacher
[email protected] Bonnie Bradley
[email protected] Barbara Brooks
[email protected] Bill Cowhig
[email protected] Barbara Durham
[email protected] Marie-Christine BENE
[email protected] Shag Aristotelis
[email protected] Barbara Yocom
[email protected] Claire Gilbert
[email protected] Bob Chambers
[email protected] Bonnieanne Boroson
[email protected] Robert M. Rohland
[email protected][email protected][email protected] Joanne Box
[email protected] Brian Marriott
[email protected] Bruce McKenzie
[email protected] Betty Sparks CIRT-IRC
[email protected] Mario Andes
[email protected] Eric C. Carlson
[email protected][email protected] Clara Baird
[email protected] Connie Bosse
[email protected] Cindy Frame
[email protected][email protected] Michael Jesse Chonoles
[email protected][email protected] Nhi-Anh Chu
[email protected] Claudia Dizenzo
[email protected] Cyndi Norman
[email protected] Colin McCormack
[email protected] Ken Cooley SWS-HPC MECH (713) 928-47
[email protected] Catherine Rowe
[email protected] Peter Campbell
[email protected] Dana MacKonis
[email protected] darren mcnelis
[email protected] Ben Delisle
[email protected] Frank P. Della Posta
[email protected] David P. Feldman
[email protected][email protected] Meredith Dixon
[email protected] Michael Doerrschuck
[email protected] Tom Droege
[email protected] David Sala
[email protected] DUANE P TUBBS, TUFTS UNIVERSITY, BOSTON
[email protected] Lili Duda
[email protected] David Rosten
[email protected] Cindy Hollmichel
[email protected] Edward Reid
[email protected] Brian Harasha
[email protected] Ephraim Vishniac
[email protected][email protected] Albrecht_Ernst
[email protected] ELIZABETH SCHULZ
[email protected] Michel Eytan, LILoL
[email protected] Gilbert FAURE
[email protected] Arthur D. Flatau
[email protected][email protected] Faye Martin
[email protected] Steve Frampton
[email protected] Lilajane Frascarelli
[email protected] Fred Condo
[email protected] Fred Rogers
[email protected] David M. Fresco
[email protected] Diane Friese
[email protected] Juergen Geer
[email protected] Gina Jozaitis
[email protected][email protected] Dick Grady
[email protected] Dr Carolyn Green
[email protected] Pete 'Happy' Thomas
[email protected] Gwennis Mooncat
[email protected] Steve_Harris
[email protected] Helen C Crain
[email protected] Bill Hickey
[email protected] Darrell Roy Hougen
[email protected] D Vu
[email protected] Harry J. Saal
[email protected] Helene Sue Rock
[email protected] Christoph Klein
[email protected] Iliza Peralta
[email protected] Dougherty, John A.
[email protected] Jerry Schneider
[email protected] Jim Wright - RTI 919-541-6115
[email protected] Judy Wood
[email protected] Jeff Jungblut
[email protected] Joseph_Fortt
[email protected] Jeffrey A. Fox
[email protected] Jessica Goldman
[email protected] John Gordon Thompson
[email protected] Paul Fishman
[email protected] Jennifer Jameson
[email protected] Jim Kelley
[email protected] Kelly Maxwell
[email protected] JMCMAHON
[email protected] Jose M. daLuz
[email protected][email protected] Johnnie Cox
[email protected] John A. Baker
[email protected] Jonathan Twaddell
[email protected] John R Papp
[email protected] jeff (j.d.) sparkes
[email protected] Ross Stevenson
[email protected] June Johnsen - HIBINC
[email protected] KJMCELWEE
[email protected] Ken Nott
[email protected] Kevin Kostelny-Vogts
[email protected] Paul Knight
[email protected] Kathy Holian
[email protected][email protected] Martin Schroeder
[email protected] Lachlan Cranswick
[email protected] Leslie A. O'NEAL
[email protected] Larry Moorhead
[email protected] Lee Thompson-Herbert
[email protected] Robert Sander
[email protected] Leo Holly
[email protected] Bo Lewendal
[email protected] liaron
[email protected] Mitchell, Linda
[email protected] Richard Lovell
[email protected] Larry Tredway
[email protected] Lynn Gazis
[email protected][email protected][email protected] Marjorie J Panditji
[email protected] Mark Worrell
[email protected] Mark A Lilly
[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected] Dr. M.C. Diffin
[email protected] RADEN MAS SUPARMAN
[email protected][email protected] phylis austin
[email protected] Annelise Johnsen
[email protected] Michael Grubb
[email protected] Mike Selwyn
[email protected] Robert Miller
[email protected] Maria M. P. de Castro Neves
[email protected] michael_ricci
[email protected] Mar Preston
[email protected][email protected] Thomas Pennington
[email protected] Chris Schmelzer
[email protected] neil
[email protected] Nancy P. Hemenway
[email protected] Noel Cranswick
[email protected][email protected] Norman Birkett
[email protected] DAVID NYE
[email protected] Allen Porter
[email protected] J Murdock
[email protected][email protected] Mary Ellen Curtin
[email protected] pamela
[email protected] Pete Benjamin
[email protected] Peter Lundholm
[email protected] Dr. Peter M. Johnson
[email protected] Pat
[email protected] Patricia Stewart, UGa
[email protected] Pug
[email protected] Patricia Wilcox
[email protected][email protected] elliot friedman
[email protected][email protected] Michael J. Quinn
[email protected] Rafi Sadowsky
[email protected] Richard Barnes
[email protected] Roger Burns
[email protected] Robert Tennent
[email protected] Vince Reed -- "Sub Zero
[email protected] Renate Greiner
[email protected][email protected] Richard Frampton
[email protected] Richard H. Miller
[email protected] Oskars Rieksts
[email protected] Rick
[email protected] Robert Lawrence
[email protected] Robert Secombe
[email protected][email protected] Robert Teisberg
[email protected][email protected][email protected] Janet Sahin
[email protected] Samu Mielonen
[email protected] Sarah Clarke
[email protected] Stephanie Bradley-Swift
[email protected] Sandra Cullen
[email protected] High Octane Fuel
[email protected] Sandy Shaw
[email protected] Ursula Daniels
[email protected][email protected] Sue
[email protected] VIRTUAL MOTHER
[email protected][email protected] Stephan Blaschke
[email protected] Steven Ray Petersen
[email protected] Susan White
[email protected] Steve Kirchoefer
[email protected] Tina Comeaux
[email protected] Ted Shieh (MC 1997)
[email protected][email protected] Capstack, Timothy
[email protected][email protected] Tony Tran
[email protected] Ted Rogers
[email protected] Sigrid Stewart
[email protected] Toshi Takeuchi
[email protected] Dorothy J. Roberts
[email protected] Valerie Cashman
[email protected] Virginia M. Sanders
[email protected] Varda Ullman Novick
[email protected] David M. Harvey
[email protected] Warwick Phillips
[email protected] Wayne S Peters
[email protected] Bill Feidt
[email protected] AFR DR. MARK WHITNALL, PH.D.
[email protected][email protected] VeriFone, Inc. - InfoSys&Cntrl (ISC)
[email protected] Mickey Williamson
[email protected] Dave Shariff Yadallee
[email protected] David Zaret
[email protected] Eric R. Ziemer
[email protected] Eric Zorrilla
Voted No
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Chris 'Action' Jackson
[email protected][email protected] Christopher Ward
[email protected] John R. MacWilliamson
[email protected] Emery Lapinski
[email protected] Dwight Brown
Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS
Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected] Bill Justin
! Conflicting votes
[email protected] Claude Rodriguez
! No vote statement in message
[email protected] Dan R. Greening
! No vote statement in message
[email protected]
! No vote statement in message
[email protected] J. C. T. Pool
! Conflicting votes
[email protected] Jill Quilici
! No vote statement in message
[email protected] Ronald Morse
! Conflicting votes
[email protected] System Admin
! Invalid address
[email protected] Jason Verch
! No vote statement in message
--
Dave Cornejo There is nothing so subtle
Dogwood Media as the obvious
Fremont, California

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