73 comments:

There is a joke in there somewhere about Eland's and pronto, but it's too early to figure it out.

Personally, I have no idea why a woman would willingly share a room with a man - we snore, we smell, etc. Earlier in my life I'd have said we were messy, but then I had a daughter and I realized I'd been faked out.

Bad premise. Other than for certain legal classifications, college students are not adults, not does the society expect them to function like adults. Unless of course they are poor or immigrants or some other less privileged class of people, in which case they should be grateful for their scholarships and stop screwing around and work harder.

Huh. When I was in college about 15 years ago, I lived in a mixed gender dorm room. It was a small state liberal arts college, and I was a computer science major. There weren't many of us doing CompSci, and there was maybe one or two other females. All of my friends were guys. We just had to sign some waivers and it seemed to be no big deal.

On the other hand, the "dorms" were private teeny-tiny bedrooms with a shared bathroom/kitchen/living room. You didn't actually share sleeping quarters.

When I was in college about a thousand years ago, I had terrible conflicts with two different female roommates. I would have been more comfortable sharing a room with any one of several male friends with whom I had more in common (none of which included romantic feelings or actions). And Expat(ish), most of them were even acquainted with soap and water!

But seriously, I don't see a problem with this. Granted, if my son had wanted a female roommate when he was in college, I would probably have balked if I didn't know her. But there are a lot of things I balk at with no particular rational reason. It's up to me to learn to deal with them.

Have the metro sexuals repealed the tradition that young single men and women in a relationship are always sexual. Good luck with that. The law still says that inclination and opportunity is proof of intimate relations.

A number of the young and heterosexual adults who work for my firm seem to be sharing an apartment with a person of the opposite sex -- without any romantic relationship between the two (or among the three). No "benefits."

I think it's a good idea for guys to learn how to live with a woman, and putting the toilet seat back down is only a small part of that. Women expect the dishes and pots and pans to be cleaned up sometime between supper and bed, and the putrescible trash taken out to the dumpster.

The only thing shocking about this developement is that it isn't more widespread. I can understand a lot of people wouldn't choose to live in a mixed-sex dorm room, even given the option, but I can't understand why anyone would care enough to make a rule forbidding it.

In the '60s, this was a not-very-good novel (The Harrad Experiment), which later became a movie. Then the idea was a little risque; now it's almost a cliche.

Whatever they make of the co-ed dorm rooms, I trust that these college kids will learn to write better than whoever turned out the headline. "[E]very single right to choose ..." Is the headline asking us to distinguish between "single rights" and "married rights"? Do rights stay single or do they prefer connubial bliss?

Using the term "adult" for college students, especially those residing in on-campus dorms, may be accurate in legal terms, but fails to describe actual maturity.

Having been a college student in on-campus dorms and now the father of a dorm-dweller, nothing has changed. The dorms are still primarily a summer camp atmosphere populated with hormones set to maximum fizz.

Back in '88/'89, I don't recall any real problems on the co-ed floors. However, when I went back to school in '94 (not in a dorm), there were no fewer than three charges of rape leveled at male students I knew, all three of which were later dropped. These occurred in co-ed dorms, not rooms. Despite the fact the cases were dropped, the three men in question had their lives and reputations ruined.

If my son came to me and said he was looking into this, I would strongly advise against it. You just don't need to put yourself in the kind of position these days, when rape charges fly helter-skelter...where women are told during orientation that two out of three of them will be the victims of attempted rape or worse.

Sure, getting bogus charges can be leveled at anyone at any time regardless of their roommate's sex, but why buy trouble when you don't need to?

As an aside, when I was in the service, a new dorm was built on base and, as a member of the color guard, I got to move into it. My suite mate (shared bathroom) was a woman and we were one of 12 such pairings on base. The dorm manager informed me that of those 12, six had gotten married. Just food for thought.

Using the term "adult" for college students, especially those residing in on-campus dorms, may be accurate in legal terms, but fails to describe actual maturity.

Yes, and the same could be said for many 30 and 40-year-olds. So what? The legal standard is all that matters.

I really do think it's a generational thing. Many older people simply cannot conceive of a man and a woman living together and not getting it on. My mother-in-law could not believe that my wife (then girlfriend) and I were not having intercourse when we began dating (I often spent the night in her room, but for various reasons we just didn't go there). The M-I-L was convinced (as were my parents) that we were lying, because the concept was just totally beyond their comprehension.

It's funny how the older generations consider themselves more mature and from a more civil time, but in this respect they really see sexual behavior as rather animalistic and not governable by reason.

Why anyone thinks it's a good idea to let 18 year olds do this on the public dime, I don't know.

It's on the public's dime regardless. What rational reason is there to forbid this other than a condescending and paternalistic view that young adults cannot control themselves? It's a retarded restriction based on the projections of older generations who actually are less mature in this regard. Even if the roommates were indeed sexually involved, what lick of difference would that make? The only reason a college might become concerned is if the couple breaks up, in which case the housing admin might have to deal with the headache of relocating one roommate. But this can easily be avoided with a policy of "You break it, you fix it."

The only reason a college might become concerned is if the couple breaks up, in which case the housing admin might have to deal with the headache of relocating one roommate. But this can easily be avoided with a policy of "You break it, you fix it."

Actually, you bring up an excellent point I hadn't considered. This is indeed a large problem. Assuming a roommate pair gets emotionally involved and subsequently breaks up, you indeed have a headache that will affect more than just the two involved. The overhead alone on this might be reason for a school to want to avoid it. RA time and hassle, records and admin, etc, etc.

I don't believe there is an age at which you reach a point where seeing someone you're still pining for comes back from the clubs and bangs someone else in the room you share (assuming you're the dumpee), but I'd be willing to bet newly minted adults are less able to shrug it off or know themselves well enough to effectively deal with it.

I happen to be sort of an expert when it comes to colleges. Not bragging, just stating my expertise. I know that at a lot of crazy-serious religious schools (almost always Protestant), there are very strict visitation hours when men and women can be in each others' dorm rooms and prohibitions on premarital sex and prohibitions on close dancing.

Are you people taking a stand against this cool with that? Are you arguing for a golden mean that guides our footsteps?

And, sadly, blue is right: federal money goes to all schools (except Grove City College and Hillsdale and a couple others!) by the billions.

In fact, I've lived with predominantly female roommies...and scored with approximately half of those...so what?

Wow, what little respect I had for you just plummeted even more. Talk about a crass and gratuitous bit of self-puffery.

My point was specifically about the 18 and 19-year-olds that are, most of the time, required to live in on-campus housing during their freshman and sophomore years. Most aren't ready for that amount of freedom as it is and that's reflected by the horrendous graduation rate.

I don't think it's very productive to tell grown adults "We expect you to act like responsible adults, but we're going to treat you like stupid children." If an 18-year-old is not ready for that amount of freedom, what business does he or she have in college at all?

Again, I wasn't advising against shacking up with a women in a dorm room from a prudish point of view, but rather a pragmatic sense of not putting your ass in a sling ahead of time visa vi a rape charge you had nothing to do with.

If you choose to room with teh crazy, well, it's partly your fault because you really should know your roommate better ahead of time. And really, how many false rape charges are there? This seems like a rather overblown fear.

Regardless, what we're talking about is not the wisdom of living with someone of the opposite sex so much as their right to do so. The wisdom of living with any particular roommate is a very fact and context-dependent matter. If faced with a choice between a hard-studying female and a hard-partying guy, I doubt that I would go with the latter just because he's got dangly bits between his legs.

This is indeed a large problem. Assuming a roommate pair gets emotionally involved and subsequently breaks up, you indeed have a headache that will affect more than just the two involved. The overhead alone on this might be reason for a school to want to avoid it. RA time and hassle, records and admin, etc, etc.

I was wondering who would take this bait... .

Sorry, but this is an issue that schools face regardless of the gender makeup of roommates. Two guys can end up hating each other's guts, as can two girls. I saw it happen more than a few times when I was in college: two people can be incompatible for any number of reasons, and the solution is always the same. One stays and the other moves out. Trust me, colleges are equipped to deal with this problem.

I don't think this would be a good idea for freshmen. Living away from home for the first time, adjusting to College, and then having an opposite-sex roomie to boot? Too many changes. How will that foster student success, as they say?

As a college student, if you want to be treated like an adult, get out of the dorms. Do the dorm for a year to meet people, and then find a house or apartment where it's none of the U's damn business who you live with.

Wow, what little respect I had for you just plummeted even more. Talk about a crass and gratuitous bit of self-puffery.

Damn, and I was so counting on your respecting me to get me through the rest of this thread. Point taken, but it’s true nonetheless and was made to illustrate something.

I don't think it's very productive to tell grown adults "We expect you to act like responsible adults, but we're going to treat you like stupid children." If an 18-year-old is not ready for that amount of freedom, what business does he or she have in college at all?

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. Experience tells me that most of these people aren’t ready and shouldn’t go…they go because society says you go to college at 18 if you want a good job. Something society isn’t all that good at delivering on these days, isn’t it? A more likely success story has someone working for a couple of years, in whatever capacity, before attempting school. The rate of success goes up sharply for those that choose this route or one that keeps them at home taking community college classes for a year or two.

If you choose to room with teh crazy, well, it's partly your fault because you really should know your roommate better ahead of time. And really, how many false rape charges are there? This seems like a rather overblown fear.

You’re assuming most freshman have that kind control over who they end up with. Unless you specify going into the housing contract, you don’t have much control past smoking or non, study dorm or not. It’s supposed to be part of the character building, I’ve always been told. On the other hand, my son ended up with a drug-dealing project kid who didn’t even want to be there. He’s making the best of it, but they’re not letting him move and he doesn’t want to outright rat the guy out. Trying to weed out who’s going to go psycho hose beast on you ahead of time would border on the miraculous. And the fear isn't overblown when college freshmen are given orientation seminars that tell them they're basically going to get raped.

Fair enough, although they absolutely hate to do it. Let's assume a given school tries co-ed roomie thing out. It would behoove them to track the current rate of after-the-fact room switches versus what they observe over the immediate three to five years after instituting that change. If the switching skyrockets, would that school be wise in rescinding the policy?

Look, I'm not arguing against it for really any other reason than it's extra risk young men don't need (even if they are immaculate in their behavior) and, as it was said upthread, too many changes, too fast. As one gets older, your life's experience helps you deal with changes. You don't have that knowledge about yourself at 18. If we're trying to increase the success rate for graduating college students, it seems like anything we can do to improve those odds (or not doing things that reduce them) would be the way to go.

There is certainly a flexible definition of "adult" nowadays...as 26 year olds could be covered under parents' health ins. policies in the dems' plan. As long as the gov't is in charge, no one ever has to really grow up and be responsible for themselves.

I love the way these 19 and 20 year old young men and women assure us and themselves that nothing sexual will happen, they're just "compatible," not knowing, or maybe knowing but not wanting to know that compatible inevitably leads to more compatible and then still more compatible and then finally an "accident" happens to happen.

I just can't get upset at this. When we talked about this going on at Amherst Sat. night, the one comment that stuck out was that they shouldn't be a couple, because if they are, and they break up, there are major emotional issues involved (and they may not be able to switch out that quickly with other roomies). The school they were talking about discouraged co-ed couples as roommates, and that, I think, is for the better.

I would guess right now that the norm or average in college dorms right now across the country is co-ed dorms, with single sex rooms, and hopefully single sex bathrooms. But, that doesn't always work out well, because half the time it seems like the opposite sex bathroom is far closer than the appropriate sex one. But I haven't really heard complaints from kids living in such situations, and I think that most think that more normal than the single sex dorms my class had as freshman (over 40 years ago). Heck, even 40 years ago, we started just the same sort of co-ed dorms (but single sex rooms) that seem to predominate now.

"It's not sexual, it's just not," said DeLeon-Foote, 19, of Sacramento.

and

The pair seem to have a warm brotherly-sisterly friendship and, while they try to be respectful, they say they are not inhibited about being in underwear or even nude while changing clothes in the room.

Sure, let's all hang out naked. Nature be damned! We're post all that hormone, animal attraction bullshit. A straight man can have a naked woman running around in his bedroom, and if you think that makes him think of sex, well you must be some old, traditionalist geezer.

They can't even call it Co-ed rooms. It's gender neutral politically correct bullshit. They genders aren't neutral. You have a man and a woman living together. Roommate situations exist like this nation wide and yet in college dorms it's still new and news? Big deal. If they are compatible, agreeable, and willing to work out the differences that comes with being male and female, then more power to them. If romance, should somehow spark from this, then why is that bad?

Oh, and Expat(ish), speak for yourself. I don't smell, I rarely snore, I clean up after myself, and I make my own bed, I shower daily, I use deodorant and I shave as to not appear scruffy. I cook, I clean, I sew, I iron, and I do all the things that would shatter your characterization. I'm an excellent roommate by the way. My roommate would concur. My wife sometimes doesn't. :D

This is a long way from my college days. At that time women had to be in thier dorm by 11 pm on weekdays and 1 am on weekends. They had to check in and out and could only stay the night with parents permission. Men were not allowed anywhere near the dorm except to excort a lady out or in. That was LSU and at the time it was the number one party school in the world. I can still remember the panty raids, that was special.

But at that time, women were something much better than they are now. We considered them very different and above us.

From the article, there are seven students and three rooms involved: two doubles and a triple. Out of six or seven hundred students (nearly all of whom live on campus), that's a pretty trivial number; the explanation of gay or transgender students preferring nontraditional roommates actually seems like a reasonable explanation.

Oddly enough, all of the couples that I can recall unofficially living together ended up getting married pretty soon after college. I completely agree about the logic of not moving in together, but in practice it worked out better than you'd think.

Wow, what little respect I had for you just plummeted even more. Talk about a crass and gratuitous bit of self-puffery.

Damn, and I was so counting on your respecting me to get me through the rest of this thread. Point taken, but it’s true nonetheless and was made to illustrate something.

And what was your point, that it's possible to bed your roommate, or that it's possible not to? I think you can make either argument without a gratuitous disclosure that you've "scored" with half of your roomies.

BTW, how many of these female roommates falsely accused you of rape? Based on your rather hysterical posts, you must have had a rather rough time responding to all those charges.

Sure, let's all hang out naked. Nature be damned! We're post all that hormone, animal attraction bullshit. A straight man can have a naked woman running around in his bedroom, and if you think that makes him think of sex, well you must be some old, traditionalist geezer.

Hey, don't blame me just because some of us don't go all primal in the mere presence of women. I'm sorry if you think that the sight of a naked woman compels every man to start humping everything in sight, but many of us don't have that problem. Maybe you're just especially hot or something.

Why is the down position for toilet seats considered the default position? More to the point, why do so many women get irritated when they find the seat up? I don't get irritated when I go to pee and find the seat down. I just put it up. Takes one second. No big deal. What's the problem here?

Christ, I can't believe that some conservatives here are taking the stance that we shouldn't allow this because grown adults are just uncontrollable animals when it comes to sex! Isn't that the excuse of Islamists who put their women in tents (and of Bill Clinton with regard to office BJs)--men can't control themselves--sexual thoughts turn men into uncontrollable animals! Clearly the solution is to put women in burkas or cockblocking chastity belts.

Again though, this isn't about the wisdom of rooming with someone of the opposite sex, but whether people should have the right to do so. This is obviously a self-selecting group; no one is saying that men and women should be forced to live together, merely that those who are so inclined should have the right to do so. If you're afraid of getting all jungle-lusty in the presence of your roommate, fine, don't room with him or her. And if you misjudge yourself and do end up bedding your roomie, welcome to adulthood and learn how to deal with it like an adult.

No wonder so many 18-year-olds are immature--what else would you expect when you continue to infantilize them so? Yes, son, you can get drafted and kill people with hi-tech weapons, you can vote for the leader of the free world, you can even kill yourself with smokable nicotine, but good god, we can't possibly trust you to decide for yourself whether you can live with someone of the opposite sex!

"I know that at a lot of crazy-serious religious schools (almost always Protestant), there are very strict visitation hours when men and women can be in each others' dorm rooms and prohibitions on premarital sex and prohibitions on close dancing.

"Are you people taking a stand against this cool with that? Are you arguing for a golden mean that guides our footsteps?"

Sure, I am. You don't go to college to dance and fuck, you go there to learn. Put your clothes back on, hussies and himboes, and hit those books. Screw around on your own time.

Blue@9 said:

"Christ, I can't believe that some conservatives here are taking the stance that we shouldn't allow this because grown adults are just uncontrollable animals when it comes to sex!"

It's not that people can't control themselves, it's that they won't. Why should they? These days we're indoctrinated 24/7 by people like you on the wonders of the New Fleshpots, and how someone who doesn't have sex every day must have some sort of mental problem, and is probably a serial killer or will become one. I'm not surprised that coed dorm roomies are now being pushed by Our Betters. Heck, I'm surprised they don't have someone assigned to each dorm to make sure the regular sex is being had in the proper amounts.

Bertrand Russell thought every college student should be assigned a roommate of the opposite sex. Rather than being a distraction he thought it would cut down on the amount of time the typical student would have to spend looking for sex. The act itself doesn't take that long but the hunt can really eat into study time.

It's not that people can't control themselves, it's that they won't. Why should they? These days we're indoctrinated 24/7 by people like you on the wonders of the New Fleshpots, and how someone who doesn't have sex every day must have some sort of mental problem, and is probably a serial killer or will become one.

You're mistaken--I have no particular opinion as to whether anyone should be a freeloving whore or a chaste flower. There's all kinds of people in the world. Unlike you, I think people should have free will and are capable choosing their own path through the messy and wonderful world of sex. It is a very conservative position: I don't care what you do, so long as you deal with the consequences. Contrast that to your position: I don't know you or anything about you, but I know best how you should live your own life.

And if college students don't control themselves in a coed room... what? Society will come crashing down because young adults are having sex? Sex is categorically bad? More sex is categorically worse?

Oh, and it's rather telling that you assume people won't control themselves because "why should they?" (a bit of projection, perhaps?) It seems that you're part of this contingent that thinks people should be controlled because we're mindless wild animals.

I'm not surprised that coed dorm roomies are now being pushed by Our Betters.

"Our Betters"? It's the students who are asking for more freedom, not some faceless authority. If anyone deserves the sarcastic title of "Our Betters," it's you. You're on the side that claims to know what's best for everyone.

Love how older generations call us adults at 18, we're old enough for them to kick us out if we get annoying to our parents, we're old enough to get married without parental consent, we're expected to be 'mature' and 'responsible', yet when it comes to having the perks that they do, such as choosing who we room with, suddenly we aren't good enough for that and we're still too young for that.Guess we are only 'mature' on what they want us to be 'mature' about. If the freshman in college gets pregnant because she doesn't use birth control, or the guy doesn't wear a condom, then that's their problem. Let THEM worry about it. If they decided to be irresponsible, then I guess they should have thought about it or used extra precaution. There's no real point in trying to make college sex not happen. It'll happen. So Universities and older generations need to give it up. Trying to ban us from doing the same thing "older" generations are allowed to do, is ridiculous. A lot of us are in college or at University because we worked hard to get there, and we want to graduate and begin a career of our choice. I'm not pulling out loans and busting my ass on scholarships (yes I pay for my own college) just so I can have sex all the time.

Don't worry about what 18 year olds do in their bedroom. It's personal, and it's not illegal.