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19 May 2009

Daily Chat 19/05/09

On this day in 1536, Anne Boleyn was beheaded. In 1858, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed, ending the Mexican-American War. As a result, the US took over land which would later become the states of California, Nevada and Utah, as well as parts of 3 others. Celebrating birthdays today: Pete Townshend, Grace Jones, Victoria Wood and Manuel Almúnia. Today is the Commemoration of Atatürk. Tootsie Roll to the first person who can guess where that happens.

122 comments:

Victoria Woods is very very funny but I can t decide if she is more or less so since she left the Great Soprendo.

Rock guitarist Pete Townshend, co-founder of The Who, was cleared (Wednesday May 7 2003) of possessing pornographic images of children but still was placed on a national register of sex offenders.

Since there was an unsavoury attempted "sting" which could have led to a false accusation of something akin to "grooming" by some silly person, late on yesterdays thread, I am not sure that Pete Townshend with his unfortunate record was a great choice to start the day with.!

I was personally unhappy and felt compromised by the silly "sting" game played yesterday - the details which can be found towards the end of the thread.

Read backwards I hope you can all see what was involved and why I and OTHER more well known posters here might feel uncomfortable.

There was also some confusion ("white noise sort of thing") because of the heavy traffic on here yesterday. A lot of the traffic was mine and made for good and honest reasons. Because my posts contributed quite a lot to that confusion I have decided to make no further posts today.

I will prepare an analysis and explanation of what occurred to cause that confusion - innocent and harmless it was - but you cannot easily see it without a print out. It takes 30 A4 pages to see how the various stories running throughout the day developed in real time.

I will post my findings/conclusions for anyone interested on tomorrows thread.

I have indicated that I shall be leaving this thread sometime over the next few days not to return as a poster. I hope when in the next few days you see my monikers you will read my explanation of what I have been doing here. Thereafter I shall continue to return as a reader only. I think there are many interesting people who post here and I enjoy reading what you have to say. In the meantime if you had found my “humour” not funny don’t worry your not the first.

Nothing sinister or wrong simply an attempt at an accelerated learning experience of how thread and internet political communication works in practice and in real time. Initially something of a mystery for an older pensioner type person.

For the purposes of absolute clarity I deano30/room101d30(x) make clear and say that I have never been on the sex offenders register. After many years in the public education service that means I, like all other teachers in the UK, have been properly vetted.

I am a 62 year old father of three adult children and a grandfather - I can assure silly little girls and boys who might read this that they bore me stupid. And I did not like the "game" played on me and others yesterday. It was silly and potentially dangerous. I am sure that when you have read the relevant posts you will have an idea of the likely origins NOT Bilp I suspect.

No more from me until tomorrows thread. Good luck with the quiz question

Pete Townshend was cleared of any wrongdoing in those charges. He was placed on the sex offender registry for five years as a technicality and those 5 years are up. He's a rock legend who has done a lot for people with drug abuse problems. No effing way I wouldn't have included him in today's birthdays.

deano30, since noone here seem to understand, or indeed care, about some supposed 'sting' here, your 'analysis and explanation' is probably not necessary.

I would find it a relief, however, if you tried to refrain from posting your very long posts that have taken up more than half these threads for many days now. It seems to me to be extremely detrimental to other posters' desire and ability to contribute to any meaningful discussion. Threads should be dialogues rather than monologues, don't you think?

Love 'Pede' Townshend- love his guitar work. The Who were greatest live band- saw them at the Roundhouse when Hendrix's 'Electric Ladyland' was released. Wow, those were the days.

If I could vote in the UK, I'd probably vote for the Lib Dems. They're probably as corrupt as the rest of them but they deserve a go. Labour always used to nick their best policies anyway. I just despise the Labour Party, the party I used to help get the vote out for, and I simply COULDN'T vote for the Tories- I'd never forgive myself.At the local village market there was the Berlusconi Party stall and I had to stop myself shouting insults probably because I didn't know any good ones in Italian. What an arsehole that man is...

Yes, SwiftyBoy, that was exactly what went through my mind- keep a low profile- resist the temptation. I also might have lost my teeth...Actually, our village in Umbria was where The Red Brigade began. In the main square, where the dancing takes place during the festa, is an enormous hammer and sickle inlaid on the floor.But Communism aint what it was...

Yeah, Umbria is lovely. We're just south of lake Trasimeno in the hills. Just discovered the track through the woods around us is an ancient pilgrimage route between Siena and Assisi. A knackered-looking French couple were walking past Sunday evening and asked if there was anywhere they could stay the night. They'd walked from Montpellier and were headed for Rome where they wanted to see the Pope! But instead of snorting with anti-catholic contempt (our default position) we said oh how interesting and offered them a room (45 euros- we need the money). They were a delightful couple and took us out to supper. Last year they'd walked to Santiago de Compostella- she had a nasty scar where a Spanish dog had bit her on the leg. Weird, huh?

Dan - agree with the Lib Dem philosophy. And I think you could add 'testa di cazzo' (sp?) to your insult.

Bru - thx for the sympathy yesterday & hope your teeth are better! The surgery was for cataracts (and I'm not even 40 yet!) - this was the second eye which they actually seem to have got right. They bollixed up the first one and I am now short-sighted in that eye. Grr. So now I can read with the right eye and see beyond my fingertips with the left one!

My wife did that pilgrimage to Santiago da Compostela in her teens (from France, where she was studying). Never got bitten by a dog but did apparently have her arse pinched in Leon. She's been nagging to go back there for years now...

I think pilgrimages are fascinating. And the Way of St James is probably the most famous Christian one, I guess.

Heh, you picked a funny country to live in if you've got a beef with Catholicism, mate.

No offence taken here, obviously, I'm notionally Catholic but it has little relevance to me personally. When wife and daughter head off to church on Sunday mornings, I cite "looking after the cat" to explain why daddy's not going with them...

I have a beef with ALL organised religion. And although a large majority of Italians call themselves Catholic, they don't appear to take it very seriously. And the Pope is deeply unpopular- this one in particular.Me, I call myself a Buddo-Anarchist. Buddhism being more of a philosophy than a religion. No external gods. Also rather fond of Hinduism.

(I was joking about your choice of country, I should add, in case that wasn't entirely clear.)

Following John Paul II was always going to be a tough gig, and Benedict XVI is seen by many Catholics, slightly unfairly, as making a rather poor fist of it, preferring to hide behind dogma and dry encyclicals which lack modern relevance.

Italian women seem much more "Catholic" in their observances than their men, from what I've seen. I've known a few Italians in my time, and while the blokes tended towards the stereotypical mummy's boys, the women were made of sterner stuff... despite outward signs of deferrence to hubby.

Looks like one of the Deputy Speakers might have to take that urgent, important meeting with the party leaders. I think we can forget Sir Alan Haslehurst, who has charged the taxpayer almost £12,000 for gardening bills at his farmhouse in Essex. As for Sylvia Heal and Sir Michael Lord, there's no dirt on them yet, but the Telegraph has only worked through a couple of hundred MP'sso far. Perhaps we'll see Sylvia's and Michael's claims in the Telegraph tomorrow.

Didn't catch his performance yesterday, heard some of it this morning mind numbingly awful! But no surprise he bahaves like an old right wing TU baron who has got where he is because its 'buggins turn'. He would never have got to be speaker in the old days.

But an awful lot got to chairs of general LP committees! Thats just what he sounded like doesn't understand the rule book so he makes it up as he goes along. Dennis Skinner has more knowlege of Erskin May in his little finger than Martin has in his whole body!

But Skinner wouldn't touch all that robes and whig bollocks with a bargepole anyway!

A pity because he'd sort them out and actually has the respect of the whole house - a man of principle a real working class man we need more like him where are they?

Re. opening a book, I'd be tempted. Michael White reckons Haslehurst has no chance, and I'd be with him on that one. Bit of a Grand National this, lots of runners and riders, theoretically any of them could be in with a chance but who really would want to do it? On the upside, there's a chance for those with an eye on such things of making a legacy out of the position and reforming the HoC. Downside is the opposite of that - that they fail in this "once in a political lifetime" chance...

I'll come back to you on that BBC prog later - partly because I don't want to post a la billp/deano etc and take up huge chunks of this thread, and partly because I'm still irritated by it and that could conceivably colour anything I write about it.

Dan Pearce, Wow, the Roundhouse, that sounds great. Have you seen The Rolling Stones 1968 "Rock and Roll Circus" dvd (released 1996)? The Who were on monstrously fine form. Really worth getting just for their performance alone, although there are some other pretty good turns, even Tull. The Stones were more than a bit off key though, and I think Jonesy was possibly even tripping. Whoops.

I've just been hearing about it, specifically about the husband of the cambridge professor and the men speaking about women belonging in the kitchen, I asked a fairly innocuous, but I though pertinent question about whether they balanced these individuals with men who rearrange their working patterns to accomodate childcare etc and hold a more current view of equalities - needless to say I have been made to feel something of a dinosaur (and I'm a working mother of 2), and the person I was talking to appears to believe they have the moral high ground (grandfather of 1).

And that's concerns me about programmes like this, although I didn't see it, by asking a question about balance, and tacitly acknowledging that not all men are misogynists who wouldn't know how to make a piece of toast, I am made to feel like a 1950s hausfrau with no concept of feminism or equalities.

I sat and watched it with (stay-at-home, part-time weekend worker) Mrs SB and (bless!) we actually started holding hands while it was on.

It was a very poor lightweight fly-by of some of the issues, complete with faux science, jokey "bloke vs girl" banter etc.

Alpha-mummy Sophie Raworth's face was a picture when confronted by some prof's research that a kid does better when not farmed off on nannies and childcare when young. She vehemently disagreed (of course) and no more was said about it. In fact, her nanny had advised her before meeting said Prof that she "shouldn't feel guilty" if results didn't go her way! Nice bit of job preservation on nanny's part, we thought.

PS Douglas Hogg is standing down as an MP at the next election, whenever that is. Fast-moving news day today!

Swifty, you may be right about the big beasts, but change is in the air. I never bet on low odds, anyway. If I could get 100/1 for Hermon with Ladbrokes now, my money's down before the rumour-mill gets going and half the candidates are blown out of the water by their as yet unpublished expenses. Lady Sylvia's an outside chance, and as yet unconsidered, but let's see. Fun and games, eh?

Tonight's focuses on the pay gap between men and women. Possibly more interesting, if only because you can't do the faux science bit about that. Evolutionary psychology has little to tell us about women's wages in the workplace, I'd imagine.

I predict though, that they'll have managed to find plenty of grotesque examples of blokes who think it perfectly reasonable to pay women less. While failing to find any normal chap who thinks that, well, "fair's fair".

Subtitled 'Why can't a woman earn as much as a man'....Sophie and Justin meet professionals, mums and academics, and do some of their own tests, asking whether it is just sexism at play or if there are more complex reasons.

DoohniborThe odd thing about the rather heated discussions this sort of journalism generates is this: (Usually) a Bloke will state that men do the shittiest most dangerous jobs, and often for low pay.

No one ever seems to counter that women do the majority of the shittiest *unpaid* work - really difficult or knackering close personal care of elderly/relative. Often on top of a day job.Why is that kept out of the mix ? Work isn't just about generating income after all...

Hi Bitterweed- No, haven't seen it; didn't know it had even been released so will check that out. Thanks. Stones always a disappointment live, presumably because out of their brains. Saw them in Hyde Park after Brian's death when Mick read Shelly very badly and released a lot of white butterflies. Boring. That evening saw Hendrix and Who at Albert Hall- definitely NOT boring...Oh yes, I saw Clapton when he was with the Yardbirds at the Marquee- beat THAT...Annetan- I always have a little Ganesh at hand- my favourite. The really great thing about Hindu gods is their fallibility. And I may say I'm against religion but there's no doubt that religion has been responsible for most of the really great art. And it's art without ego, which makes it doubly good.That's what I really dislike about most contemporary art- Hirst, Emin, etc- they're all saying LOOK AT ME!

There was one other thing that occurred to Mrs SB while watching that programme - why is "success" always couched in such "Surallan" terms? Isn't the woman who raises a family and keeps things going behind the scenes just as "successful" in her own terms as the woman who rises to the top of the merchant bank while nanny runs the nursery?

Interesting use of categories as well - 'mums' stuck in between professionals and academics. Are you not a real mum worth talking about if you're not a academic/professional? Or are all mums (black, white, single, unemployed, low-waged, stay-at-home, whatever) subject to the exact same problems?

BW - I don't think that they're interested in anyone, male or female, at the bottom of the heap and doing the shitty min wage and unpaid jobs....

Otherwise, they might be interviewing them, rather than solely professionals, academics and mums....make no mistake, this is a programme made by the middle classes for the middle classes - the people who are just trying to keep their heads above water will find it of no more relevance or interest than a party political broadcast on behalf of the labour party.

"Oh yes, I saw Clapton when he was with the Yardbirds at the Marquee- beat THAT"

Can't do it !

I asked John Mayall to autograph a shirt for me a couple of years ago, and he basically told me to f@ck off. That's my calbire of anecdote I'm afraid

You saw Hendrix AND the Who ?

Christ, what a night that must have been.There's a great gutarist now living in Suffok UK called Dave King, he told me he saw Hendrix at the Albert Hall, went with a couple of mates, and after the gig no-one spoke until their train was half way to Stevenage...

1. I was in my mate's car when he ran over Mark E Smith's foot in South Manchester once. Fantastic swearing from the pugnacious Fall frontman, audible in Wigan I believe.2. Got chatted up by the tall one out of the Pet Shop Boys once in my youth. I kid you not.3. Got a photo taken by a bystander of me and Gillian Welch in Nashville. Mrs SB reckons GW looks "disturbed" by my presence.

Cousin of mine met Rod Stewart in a bar and asked for his autograph, he asked what she was going to give him in return (in a rather suggestive manner) she said she'd give him her Scotland scarf and he told her that he hundreds of those so she might as well fuck off....

My brother recently had a few drinks with Ted Robbins (Den Perry from Phoenix Nights). He was apparently very down to earth, extremely entertaining and funny, got extremely pissed and tried to hit on my brother's wife. Showbiz, eh? (Although bro and wife took it in good spirit.)

I once saw Mick Jagger in a lift in Olympia (there was online exhibition). I was taking a break from my work stand to go and see him speaking on the top floor. So when I got into the lift to go up, I saw him in the lift (he had just finished the talk)... all I said was, "ah, what a shame I was just coming up to see and hear you speak" his arrogant respond was... "you have now"... I got so embarrased in front of the others who were in the lift...I didn't reply and thought to myself "what an ass hole ***nker... FUCK YOU! Some of these singers have a mountain size ego, the hell with them...

I've just had a bloody good laugh while reading a wiki entry about the Bilderberg group on the back of Charlie Skelton's expose in the Graun. Have a look where they're holding next year's top-secret meeting.

1. Craig Charles. Yep, a whoring, crack-smoking cunt at that.2. I take it back about Butlins. Makes sense in light of that bombshell. Interestingly enough, top clown Charlie Cairoli (often appeared at Butlins) was a lifelong member of the KGB, got "turned" while studying "doors falling off cars" and "the bucket of glitter trick" at Cambridge in the 50s, apparently.

I can't share all my own stories, they might identify me.....but that definitely did happen to my cousin!

I did once have the misfortune of serving Brian Clough a cheese sandwich in a pub, I tripped over his leg and spilt it into his lap....Brian Clough + pub = torrent of abuse and tears in the toilets (mine).

DoohniborTrue, they're technically just there to keep the gits in line. It's just the thought of Widdicombe allowing the media to turn the thing into a grotesque celebrity role, which you know she would allow, with that ghastly earnest schtick she does - cheapening parliament even further...

I was living in Brighton in 71 and I met this bloke called Ted Milton, a poet, who did puppet shows at schools in the area. His wife, who was his assistant, was heavily pregnant and he needed a temporary replacement and he asked me if I'd do it. I had a ridiculously brief audition and we went on the road. He did two puppet shows at each gig. The first was a conventional marionette show which I did with him and the second was a stick puppet show he did by himself- completely weird and surreal- defies description.Anyway, we did a show in this school somewhere in Sussex which was a wild success with the kids. Ted would always improvise- he'd come out with some line which totally threw me and give me a wicked grin and I'd have to come back with something in whatever funny voice that belonged to the puppet I had at the time. After this particular show he went to pick up the cash from the head who said "I've a good mind not to give you your money- your show was utterly subversive rubbish!" This was usually the case- the kids went wild and the staff were stony faced.Anyway, Ted got his money and we set off in his ramshackle old van and we lit up a spliff as usual and he said "I got a mate who lives round here- I think we'll pay him a visit""who's your mate?""He's a musician""Oh yeah- what's he play?""Guitar""What's his name?""Eric Clapton"Apparently, Ted used to do a puppet show during the interval at Cream gigs. We turned up at Clapton's Lutyens masion and had tea with him. We sat in this enormous living room and Clapton rolled spliff after spliff and grunted occasionally. He was heavily into smack at the time. What an anti-climax.Ted Milton was a really lovely guy. I googled him the other day and discovered he has a band called Blurt who're big in Germany.I'd love to see him again.That's my ultimate rock'n'roll hero story.

I think the election of a new Speaker will be more symbolic than anything else. If Parliament does not show a willingness to leave all the sleaze and corruption behind, this will be a further demonstration that they have total disdain for the electorate. Assuming that the speaker's election (secret ballot in June) is pior to the next general election, it will send either a positive or a negative message to the electorate about exactly how rotten the system is. A minority party Speaker would go some way towards reassuring the public that things are actually changing. Hence my tip for Sylvia Hermon as a good outside bet. I would like to think that, corrupt as they are, most MP's are not completely stupid. It is in their own best interests to read the writing on the wall. Whether they will or not, I don't know.

Seth Freedman's piece is a full on friggin insult to anyone's intelligence. My response lasted about two minutes and meanwhile he's basking in the praise of the legions of Freedman groupies who'd probably follow him into the desert in search of the land of milk and honey. Useless twats. That guy is such a fuckin arsehole. Anyway...I'm posting it here.

#Gosh...thought provoking stuff. Now I come to think of it, alcohol is as harmful as other drugs...hmmm....and therefore ipso facto, the natural corollary of this amazing realisation is....er....we're all to blame for the credit crunch. It's only logical. QED. And I suppose...by a further application of your faultless analysis...we're all responsible for MP's dishonesty over expenses. It's obvious now I think about it. After all, these people were not operating in a vacuum. It must be my fault. Thanks Seth. Your piece was a real eye opener.

Now what can I do to make amends? What's that you say...I can pay for it? OK then, it's only fair.

Hang on...I'm already paying for it. Isn't there anything else I can do?

What...oh right...you'd like me to listen to the pathetic posturing and whining of someone who's done his stint in the City, made his pile (all the while coked up to high fuckin heaven-just how hard can it be?...brain drain my arse) and now sees fit to lecture me on how the mess we're in is all my fault.

monkeyfish,,dude,,go look in the mirror,,i say this in a helpful manner,,i wont argue the toss with you,,but there is a whole different picturepainted by your post here than the picture you may think we (i) see.

i think i probably find the offence in your reading rather than seths writing,,i wouldnt bother to say anything if this were any other blog,,and even here i am not going to argue about it,,i said my opinion,,hope it helps~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~offence is taken not given, DropinBucket

Quick drive-by post as the pc's being monopolised all week by the assignment-completing student in my house..

@DoohniborGender pay gap - median average earnings, from the Annualised Survey of Hours & Earnings (ASHE). Used to use mean average from another survey but it changed about 5 or 6 years ago.More from: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=167

# but there is a whole different picturepainted by your post here than the picture you may think we (i) see.#

tbh I don't think about what picture you might be seeing. I'm sure if I did I probably wouldn't bother posting anything. I find what he did offensive.

He posts a piece informing us about something that everybody was already well aware of; a piece of questionable worth and quality. Then he sneaks in a little dig at anybody who has a go at the City...again... it's not like it's the first time.

Next, out of the blue, he rationalises this by trying to imply, without any serious justification, that a similar brand of hypocrisy is at play as with societal attitudes to alcohol. It's shoddy writing and shoddy logic inserted incongruously in an article telling us that bears shit in the woods.

All to lend some support to his beleaguered ex-mates / family(?) who are reaping the consequences of their incompetence and greed. Fuck him.

'Course he can also rely on the fatuous "anti-Seth <=> anti-semitic" line of argument which some aficionados of the I/P threads maintain but frankly, those dickheads never really made it out of the playground.

#offence is taken not given#

good line...clearly bollox..but a good line. Suggests quite a few neat rejoinders but I won't bother.

thaumaturgeYeah, the Wall was all right, I even have the DVD, even watched it. I'm actually a bigger fan of Roger Waters than is socially acceptable these days too - anyone who can write Comfortably Numb can't be all bad - the Wall was his finest moment if you ask me!

BB - chose Baba O'Riley simply because it's my favourite from the Who. Didn't realise today was the 40th for Tommy, but probably wouldn't have (actually, there's no probably to it) chosen a song from it. Always been uncomfortable with it. Now that we know that Pete was probably trying to work through some of what happened to him, I suppose I'm less squeamish, but still, so much better stuff in their catalogue. (And the sight of a young Roger Daltrey in tight, faded Levis is always nice.........)

Nice to see that we seem to be returning to our regularly scheduled broadcast here.