I'm pretty sure Steelers do. That would be the 1st loss within division and 2nd loss vs cpnference, both of which would be better than rats if I'm not mistaken.

tomiesteel08

12-08-2008, 12:22 AM

I'm pretty sure Steelers do. That would be the 1st loss within division and 2nd loss vs cpnference, both of which would be better than rats if I'm not mistaken.

Then we would have to win out if we lose next week.

Iron Shiek

12-08-2008, 12:25 AM

Well only if the Ravens also won out. Next week if we lose, we'd have same record as Rats...we own the tiebreakers, so Ravens would be screwed if we won out. If ravens one of their last two games, they screw themselves.

Jom112

12-08-2008, 12:27 AM

I'm pretty sure Steelers do. That would be the 1st loss within division and 2nd loss vs cpnference, both of which would be better than rats if I'm not mistaken.

You're right, if the Steelers lose the Ravens, you guys would have the same division record but you guys would still have one less loss in the conference. So you guys would have the tiebreaker...

tomiesteel08

12-08-2008, 12:28 AM

Well only if the Ravens also won out. Next week if we lose, we'd have same record as Rats...we own the tiebreakers, so Ravens would be screwed if we won out. If ravens one of their last two games, they screw themselves.

We have to take matters into our own hands. Now the steelers will prepare harder then if they knew they had a two game lead on the ratbirds

SMASHMOUTHFOOTBALL

12-08-2008, 10:28 AM

I don't think we do...I heard the guys on Savaran say the rule changed--It is no longer conf rec but our record vs head to head against like opponents of whom the Rats have played. This is now the 2nd tie breaker after afc north record. Could be wrong though--but don't think so.

Ezekiel 25:17

12-08-2008, 10:54 AM

End of the day, our destiny is in our own hands.

Beat the Rats, win the division. Period.

We came through the Dallas game without a significant injury (assuming that Nate didn't bounce up from pure adrenalin). We beat them early this season more banged up than we are now.

Time for Ben and the offense to step up.

unseth

12-08-2008, 11:29 AM

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

RuthlessBurgher

12-08-2008, 12:01 PM

If we split with them and end up with the same overall record and same record within the divison, it looks like our record against common opponents will also be the same, because we both won each of our games against our non-common opponents (we beat New England and San Diego and they did not play either, while they beat Miami and Oakland and we did not play either...therefore our win-loss record against everyone else would have to be the same as well if we split with them and end up tied). The next tiebreaker would be conference record, and ours is better right now (we are 8-1 vs. the AFC while Baltimore is 7-3 vs. the AFC).

snarky

12-08-2008, 12:27 PM

My NFL simulator shows a 26% chance that we end up tied with them and in those cases it shows us with a 92% chance of winning the tie breaker. Sooooo...that would mean we have just about a 2.5% chance of losing a tie-breaker to them.

pfelix73

12-08-2008, 01:47 PM

An NFL simulator? Wow. Where have I been? Is it 2108?

DBinAL

12-08-2008, 02:57 PM

OK, everyone. Put on your thinking caps, because this is complicated. Using the following factors: PGH loses to Balt and TN and beats Clev. Balt beats PGH and Jax, while losing to DAL. Both teams finish 11-5 overall, 1-1 head-to-head > tie breaker #1, 5-1 division > tie breaker #2, 9-5 in common games > tie breaker #3, and 9-3 in the conference > tie breaker #4. This now sends us to the 5th tie breaker > Strength of victory.

Strength of Victory
Definition: A part of the NFL's tiebreaking proceedure, strength of victory is figured by calculating the combined winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten.

Examples: If two teams end with identical records, combine the records of the opponents in each of the team's wins and calculate the total winning percentage. The team whose opponents have the higher winning percentage wins the tiebreaker.

So, using the above factors, and if things play out as described, the Steelers and Ravens would break even on most of the common opponents. The 3 other games that each team beat (Balt - Miami, Philly and Oakland...Pgh - New England, San Diego and Dallas) would be used to determine the SofV. Baltimore's SofV would be based on the records of Philly, Miami, and Oakland. Pittsburgh's SofV would be based on the records of Dallas, New England and San Diego. So it could boil down to PGH rooting for the Cowboys, New England and San Diego winning as many games as possible.

If Pittsburgh loses to Baltimore and beats Tennessee, and Baltimore beats Pittsburgh and Dallas, then the Steelers will win on the basis of tie breaker #4 (Conference record - 10-2 vs 9-3). Tie breaker #3 - Common games would be tied at 10-4.

Confusing, isn't it?

Iron Shiek

12-08-2008, 03:01 PM

OK, everyone. Put on your thinking caps, because this is complicated. Using the following factors: PGH loses to Balt and TN and beats Clev. Balt beats PGH and Jax, while losing to DAL. Both teams finish 11-5 overall, 1-1 head-to-head > tie breaker #1, 5-1 division > tie breaker #2, 9-5 in common games > tie breaker #3, and 9-3 in the conference > tie breaker #4. This now sends us to the 5th tie breaker > Strength of victory.

Strength of Victory
Definition: A part of the NFL's tiebreaking proceedure, strength of victory is figured by calculating the combined winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten.

Examples: If two teams end with identical records, combine the records of the opponents in each of the team's wins and calculate the total winning percentage. The team whose opponents have the higher winning percentage wins the tiebreaker.

So, using the above factors, and if things play out as described, the Steelers and Ravens would break even on most of the common opponents. The 3 other games that each team beat (Balt - Miami, Philly and Oakland...Pgh - New England, San Diego and Dallas) would be used to determine the SofV. Baltimore's SofV would be based on the records of Philly, Miami, and Oakland. Pittsburgh's SofV would be based on the records of Dallas, New England and San Diego. So it could boil down to PGH rooting for the Cowboys, New England and San Diego winning as many games as possible.

If Pittsburgh loses to Baltimore and beats Tennessee, and Baltimore beats Pittsburgh and Dallas, then the Steelers will win on the basis of tie breaker #4 (Conference record - 10-2 vs 9-3). Tie breaker #3 - Common games would be tied at 10-4.

Confusing, isn't it?

Dam good breakdown DB! :Clap

I followed you completely, nice job. Well, its good that Oakland is one of theirs...we can take solace in the fact that Al Davis' poorly run organization will help us out in some fashion.

snarky

12-08-2008, 03:02 PM

An NFL simulator? Wow. Where have I been? Is it 2108?

No, not quite. But I'm glad to report that the simulator has done pretty well this year. Here's what it had after week 5 (which, for reasons I won't bore you with, is the first 'real' forecast it does in a season).

Clicky (http://chancebot.com/fball/standings5.php)

(The PW column shows the number of wins it projected for the season)

Of course it didn't get everything right. But I think it did pretty well. I specifically remember posting these results because it had Miami getting to ten wins and as the most likely to win the AFC East. :shock: :shock:

Hopefully I will be able to fine tune it a bit more next year to improve the accuracy. But overall, I'm pleased with the results and I have faith in the 2.5% number given above.

Djfan

12-08-2008, 03:03 PM

OK, everyone. Put on your thinking caps, because this is complicated. Using the following factors: PGH loses to Balt and TN and beats Clev. Balt beats PGH and Jax, while losing to DAL. Both teams finish 11-5 overall, 1-1 head-to-head > tie breaker #1, 5-1 division > tie breaker #2, 9-5 in common games > tie breaker #3, and 9-3 in the conference > tie breaker #4. This now sends us to the 5th tie breaker > Strength of victory.

Strength of Victory
Definition: A part of the NFL's tiebreaking proceedure, strength of victory is figured by calculating the combined winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten.

Examples: If two teams end with identical records, combine the records of the opponents in each of the team's wins and calculate the total winning percentage. The team whose opponents have the higher winning percentage wins the tiebreaker.

So, using the above factors, and if things play out as described, the Steelers and Ravens would break even on most of the common opponents. The 3 other games that each team beat (Balt - Miami, Philly and Oakland...Pgh - New England, San Diego and Dallas) would be used to determine the SofV. Baltimore's SofV would be based on the records of Philly, Miami, and Oakland. Pittsburgh's SofV would be based on the records of Dallas, New England and San Diego. So it could boil down to PGH rooting for the Cowboys, New England and San Diego winning as many games as possible.

If Pittsburgh loses to Baltimore and beats Tennessee, and Baltimore beats Pittsburgh and Dallas, then the Steelers will win on the basis of tie breaker #4 (Conference record - 10-2 vs 9-3). Tie breaker #3 - Common games would be tied at 10-4.

Confusing, isn't it?

Sounds like the BCS ranking system.

AkronSteel

12-08-2008, 03:03 PM

All of this really doesn't matter at this point.....beat the Ratturds next week and not only will the Steelers clinch the division but they will also pretty much lock up a first round bye in the playoffs. They will have a 2 game lead over any other team in the conference and with the conference record that they hold I think that the bye will be clinched. Basically, just take care of business yourself and then it won't matter. The only way the Ratturds beat the Steelers next week is if the Steelers turn the ball over. The Ravens will not score more than 13, heck they will be lucky to score that.

:ratsuck

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-08-2008, 03:20 PM

If we lose next week but finish the season tied who gets the north

Beat the Ravens next week...The Steelers win the division! Sounds like the only scenario that matters right now! To answer the question, if the Ravens beat the Steelers and both teams win out the Steelers get the division on conference record.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY

12-08-2008, 03:23 PM

All of this really doesn't matter at this point.....beat the Ratturds next week and not only will the Steelers clinch the division but they will also pretty much lock up a first round bye in the playoffs. They will have a 2 game lead over any other team in the conference and with the conference record that they hold I think that the bye will be clinched. Basically, just take care of business yourself and then it won't matter. The only way the Ratturds beat the Steelers next week is if the Steelers turn the ball over. The Ravens will not score more than 13, heck they will be lucky to score that.

:ratsuck

I think you are right. A win by the Steelers gives them the division & a 1st rounfd bye.