willmma wrote:Now Israel has never made ending the occupation conditional on Hamas. Israel is saying it WILL NEVER ALLOW A PALESTINIAN STATE. No conditions. No ifs.

That makes what Hamas does irrelevant.

And I told you a million times, even Hamas which is the dominant force in gaza, recognizes the PA as the Palestinian government

Did you miss the quotes? "STRONG MILITARY".. was pointed out very clearly, when have you ever said that?

So you expect Israel to consider the threat of a "STRONG MILITARY" at its borders, that won't recognize it as a State & live for its destruction as an "Irrelevant" factor in the peace process?.. because according to a Canadian who is too fearful to visit that region tells them that the PA is really in charge?

Can you not grasp how ridiculous your logic is Will? Its legit scary the thought process that you are trying to use to rationalize your stance.

A response like that tells me you didnt read anything.

I will repeat for clarity.

Israel says there will never be a Palestinian state. Whether hamas has a strong military or not. whether hamas exists or not. if hamas accepts two state solution or not. If every hamas member disarms tomorrow. If every hamas member dies tomorrow. Israel's stance is not based on hamas. Israel is against the two state solution. Israel will never allow a Palestinian state.

Israel is not looking for a way to co-exist peacefully but finding Hamas's strong military to be a problem. Israel just does not want to coexist peacefully.So, what hamas does, more weapons or less weapons ends up being irrelevant

Also, when Israel beats up civilians in the west bank, it is not because of what Hamas is doing. What hamas is doing is irrelevant to the equation that formulates Israeli actions.

When Israel shoots to kill father and son together in the west bank, this has nothing to do with Hamas. This is the occupation at work.

cheers.

Why is your history oh so selective?

Who was the 1st side to refuse to Co-Exist? Why does your history seem to miss some key dates?

You can't bring yourself to admit that a "STRONG MILITARY" that refuses to recognize the other side may just be part of the issue why there is no peace.. you can't do that because any sort of blame on the Palestinian side refuses to register

Shuck you do have this tendency to try and twist every statement into some sort of personal attack.

I never knew Frag came to Qatar when he came. He never sent me a PM when he came, all he did was post in the Linker get together thread at a point in time when I rarely was visiting the site. If Frag came I would gladly meet up with him, and allow him to see that the Arabic version of the dishes we have in common with the Greeks are far superior .That is entirely different than claiming “I refused” to meet him

Also, I don’t hold any bias towards fighters of any particular religion. While you might find I do tend to support fighters from certain ethnic backgrounds, like fighters from the Middle East or the Caucuses that happen to be Muslim, it is more to do with where they come from than what religion they are.

As far as your sig that you lost in the sig bet, you know that it was more to be a funny than to actually try and convert anyone to Islam. Personally, I found it particularly amusing given your Jewish heritage.

I have never been to Israel. The closest I have been in near the Israeli border in Jordan. I do know many Palestinians though that still have parents, siblings, and even children in the West Bank and Gaza.

I have never been to Yemen, and I do not wish to go there given what the US and their allies are currently doing to the country.

If you were born in Israel then I would acknowledge you have connections to the land. I was under the impression that you were born and raised in the US, with perhaps some relatives living Israel. That doesn’t change the fact though, my dear Shuck, that the principals in which Israel was created resulted in radical groups like Hamas emerging.Personally, what ever you want to call Hamas, and however bad they may be, they are a product of a situation, not the cause of the situation.

Again, for me it is like blaming the historical segregation that existed in the United States on more militant black rights movements, when the movements only existed because of segregation.

You come out & tell someone that a country isn't their motherland by comparing it to a country that you have never been to & don't expect to get some kind of kickback? Your forte is being passive aggressive, I don't mind it, but I don't fall for it

I didn't know the details of the frag meetup but I do recall him askn you a few times on here why you never met up & I never saw a response. So if he has no beef about it then I clearly misread it.

The gif was gdamn hilarious.. but even wts I still think you are lookn to push your religion on others here, is what it is

You refused to put any blame on Khabib for the brawl, zero, so I called it like I saw it.

You compared Yemen to your motherland as Israel is to mine & you have never even been there.. I was born in the states, moved to Israel right after, lived there till I was 6, everyone of my relatives is still there (over 50+), visit every few yrs, dual citizen. While you bring up "personal attacks", I'd say you telling someone which country is & isn't one's motherland can fall under that category

My dear Pain, the principals in which present day Israel was ressurrected was the palestinians & their neighbors (which have since abandoned them) choosing war over a 2 state solution.. they refused to recognize it as a State then like they do now.. so if you want to blame anyone for creating the radicals I'd say choose the ancestors that chose poorly

I dont know Frag feels about things, but I definitely responded to him as soon as I became aware that he visited here.

I am not religious and have written much more on evolutionary biology and science than I have any other non-MMA related topics. Please check out my threads here in off topic.

Though if people converted to Islam to express their spirituality while viewing the stories as being apocryphal I would be ok with it...perhaps even encourage it.

If let's say a Christian Syrian was competing against a Muslim Bengali...I of course would cheer for the Syrian. Any sorts of biases I have for fighters is more national/ethnic than religious based.

I regret what Khabib did after the Conor fight and never defended him. The only thing I mentioned regarding that event was Conor also played a role and shares some of the responsibility.

I wouldn't say telling someone what constitutes their homeland is a personal attack...especially if their argument for that place being there homeland was not based on any logical reasoning.

I could start calling Japan my homeland and it really wouldn't make any sense and if you called me out on it...it would be justified.

You apparently have a personal connection to Israel and that is something I can respect. Whatever the history of the country and the acts of government, there are now a few generations of Jews from different parts of the world that has only known Israel as their home.

The claims that Israel is the homeland of the Jews because thousands of years ago they were there...is a point that I do have issues with, and would be very much akin to me claiming Yemen as my homeland.

Shuck you do have this tendency to try and twist every statement into some sort of personal attack.

I never knew Frag came to Qatar when he came. He never sent me a PM when he came, all he did was post in the Linker get together thread at a point in time when I rarely was visiting the site. If Frag came I would gladly meet up with him, and allow him to see that the Arabic version of the dishes we have in common with the Greeks are far superior .That is entirely different than claiming “I refused” to meet him

Also, I don’t hold any bias towards fighters of any particular religion. While you might find I do tend to support fighters from certain ethnic backgrounds, like fighters from the Middle East or the Caucuses that happen to be Muslim, it is more to do with where they come from than what religion they are.

As far as your sig that you lost in the sig bet, you know that it was more to be a funny than to actually try and convert anyone to Islam. Personally, I found it particularly amusing given your Jewish heritage.

I have never been to Israel. The closest I have been in near the Israeli border in Jordan. I do know many Palestinians though that still have parents, siblings, and even children in the West Bank and Gaza.

I have never been to Yemen, and I do not wish to go there given what the US and their allies are currently doing to the country.

If you were born in Israel then I would acknowledge you have connections to the land. I was under the impression that you were born and raised in the US, with perhaps some relatives living Israel. That doesn’t change the fact though, my dear Shuck, that the principals in which Israel was created resulted in radical groups like Hamas emerging.Personally, what ever you want to call Hamas, and however bad they may be, they are a product of a situation, not the cause of the situation.

Again, for me it is like blaming the historical segregation that existed in the United States on more militant black rights movements, when the movements only existed because of segregation.

You come out & tell someone that a country isn't their motherland by comparing it to a country that you have never been to & don't expect to get some kind of kickback? Your forte is being passive aggressive, I don't mind it, but I don't fall for it

I didn't know the details of the frag meetup but I do recall him askn you a few times on here why you never met up & I never saw a response. So if he has no beef about it then I clearly misread it.

The gif was gdamn hilarious.. but even wts I still think you are lookn to push your religion on others here, is what it is

You refused to put any blame on Khabib for the brawl, zero, so I called it like I saw it.

You compared Yemen to your motherland as Israel is to mine & you have never even been there.. I was born in the states, moved to Israel right after, lived there till I was 6, everyone of my relatives is still there (over 50+), visit every few yrs, dual citizen. While you bring up "personal attacks", I'd say you telling someone which country is & isn't one's motherland can fall under that category

My dear Pain, the principals in which present day Israel was ressurrected was the palestinians & their neighbors (which have since abandoned them) choosing war over a 2 state solution.. they refused to recognize it as a State then like they do now.. so if you want to blame anyone for creating the radicals I'd say choose the ancestors that chose poorly

I dont know Frag feels about things, but I definitely responded to him as soon as I became aware that he visited here.

I am not religious and have written much more on evolutionary biology and science than I have any other non-MMA related topics. Please check out my threads here in off topic.

Though if people converted to Islam to express their spirituality while viewing the stories as being apocryphal I would be ok with it...perhaps even encourage it.

If let's say a Christian Syrian was competing against a Muslim Bengali...I of course would cheer for the Syrian. Any sorts of biases I have for fighters is more national/ethnic than religious based.

I regret what Khabib did after the Conor fight and never defended him. The only thing I mentioned regarding that event was Conor also played a role and shares some of the responsibility.

I wouldn't say telling someone what constitutes their homeland is a personal attack...especially if their argument for that place being there homeland was not based on any logical reasoning.

I could start calling Japan my homeland and it really wouldn't make any sense and if you called me out on it...it would be justified.

You apparently have a personal connection to Israel and that is something I can respect. Whatever the history of the country and the acts of government, there are now a few generations of Jews from different parts of the world that has only known Israel as their home.

The claims that Israel is the homeland of the Jews because thousands of years ago they were there...is a point that I do have issues with, and would be very much akin to me claiming Yemen as my homeland.

I can respect that .. a Ill leave the other biz between You & Frag since its none of mine... but plz explain to me how the connection i laid out to Israel doesn't constitute as being based on logical reasoning?

Yes, yes there are Jews that grew up there, like every single one of my relatives, both of my parents lol, you meet them and you think they came off the boat yesterday.. There is no "apparent personal connection" lol, Im a citizen that spent yrs there.. I'm confused how that isn't logical reasoning, how are comparing it to you & japan, or am I just reading this wrong, oddly worded

& feel free to drop a link to one of your off topic threads, will check it out

PainDog wrote:I dont know Frag feels about things, but I definitely responded to him as soon as I became aware that he visited here.

I am not religious and have written much more on evolutionary biology and science than I have any other non-MMA related topics. Please check out my threads here in off topic.

Though if people converted to Islam to express their spirituality while viewing the stories as being apocryphal I would be ok with it...perhaps even encourage it.

If let's say a Christian Syrian was competing against a Muslim Bengali...I of course would cheer for the Syrian. Any sorts of biases I have for fighters is more national/ethnic than religious based.

I regret what Khabib did after the Conor fight and never defended him. The only thing I mentioned regarding that event was Conor also played a role and shares some of the responsibility.

I wouldn't say telling someone what constitutes their homeland is a personal attack...especially if their argument for that place being there homeland was not based on any logical reasoning.

I could start calling Japan my homeland and it really wouldn't make any sense and if you called me out on it...it would be justified.

You apparently have a personal connection to Israel and that is something I can respect. Whatever the history of the country and the acts of government, there are now a few generations of Jews from different parts of the world that has only known Israel as their home.

The claims that Israel is the homeland of the Jews because thousands of years ago they were there...is a point that I do have issues with, and would be very much akin to me claiming Yemen as my homeland.

I can respect that .. a Ill leave the other biz between You & Frag since its none of mine... but plz explain to me how the connection i laid out to Israel doesn't constitute as being based on logical reasoning?

Yes, yes there are Jews that grew up there, like every single one of my relatives, both of my parents lol, you meet them and you think they came off the boat yesterday.. There is no "apparent personal connection" lol, Im a citizen that spent yrs there.. I'm confused how that isn't logical reasoning, how are comparing it to you & japan, or am I just reading this wrong, oddly worded

& feel free to drop a link to one of your off topic threads, will check it out

You are reading what I said wrong.

I said you have an apparent personal connection to Israel even in my previous post. Which I acknowledged I was unaware of.

My example with Japan was a reply and an example to your statement, that by my questioning of your homeland, it was a personal attack.

There are times when someone claims a certain place as their homeland that makes no sense and they should be called out on it, like if I said Japan was my homeland or African Americans claiming Egypt as their homeland.

It is factually not true.

Last edited by PainDog on Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

PainDog wrote:I dont know Frag feels about things, but I definitely responded to him as soon as I became aware that he visited here.

I am not religious and have written much more on evolutionary biology and science than I have any other non-MMA related topics. Please check out my threads here in off topic.

Though if people converted to Islam to express their spirituality while viewing the stories as being apocryphal I would be ok with it...perhaps even encourage it.

If let's say a Christian Syrian was competing against a Muslim Bengali...I of course would cheer for the Syrian. Any sorts of biases I have for fighters is more national/ethnic than religious based.

I regret what Khabib did after the Conor fight and never defended him. The only thing I mentioned regarding that event was Conor also played a role and shares some of the responsibility.

I wouldn't say telling someone what constitutes their homeland is a personal attack...especially if their argument for that place being there homeland was not based on any logical reasoning.

I could start calling Japan my homeland and it really wouldn't make any sense and if you called me out on it...it would be justified.

You apparently have a personal connection to Israel and that is something I can respect. Whatever the history of the country and the acts of government, there are now a few generations of Jews from different parts of the world that has only known Israel as their home.

The claims that Israel is the homeland of the Jews because thousands of years ago they were there...is a point that I do have issues with, and would be very much akin to me claiming Yemen as my homeland.

I can respect that .. a Ill leave the other biz between You & Frag since its none of mine... but plz explain to me how the connection i laid out to Israel doesn't constitute as being based on logical reasoning?

Yes, yes there are Jews that grew up there, like every single one of my relatives, both of my parents lol, you meet them and you think they came off the boat yesterday.. There is no "apparent personal connection" lol, Im a citizen that spent yrs there.. I'm confused how that isn't logical reasoning, how are comparing it to you & japan, or am I just reading this wrong, oddly worded

& feel free to drop a link to one of your off topic threads, will check it out

You are reading what I said wrong.

I said you have an apparent personal connection to Israel even in my previous post. Which I acknowledged I was unaware of.

My example with Japan reply and example to your statement by my questioning of your homeland it was a personal attack.

There are times when someone claims a certain place as their homeland makes no sense and they should be called out on it, like if I said Japan was my homeland or African Americans claiming Egypt as their homeland.

Israel says there will never be a Palestinian state. Whether hamas has a strong military or not. whether hamas exists or not. if hamas accepts two state solution or not. If every hamas member disarms tomorrow. If every hamas member dies tomorrow. Israel's stance is not based on hamas. Israel is against the two state solution. Israel will never allow a Palestinian state.

Israel is not looking for a way to co-exist peacefully but finding Hamas's strong military to be a problem. Israel just does not want to coexist peacefully.So, what hamas does, more weapons or less weapons ends up being irrelevant

Also, when Israel beats up civilians in the west bank, it is not because of what Hamas is doing. What hamas is doing is irrelevant to the equation that formulates Israeli actions.

When Israel shoots to kill father and son together in the west bank, this has nothing to do with Hamas. This is the occupation at work.

cheers.

Why is your history oh so selective?

Who was the 1st side to refuse to Co-Exist? Why does your history seem to miss some key dates?

You can't bring yourself to admit that a "STRONG MILITARY" that refuses to recognize the other side may just be part of the issue why there is no peace.. you can't do that because any sort of blame on the Palestinian side refuses to register

To 5 More Yrs of time well spent

You are still not reading.

I'm not being selective with "history". I'm talking about present day.

Also, I'm not the one who refuses to take hamas into consideration. Israel is not taking it into consideration.

I will spell it out again. Israel is not saying that there is a "Strong military" that is an obstacle to creating a 2 state solution. Only you are saying that. Israel is saying that itself, on its own, of its own behest, will not allow a 2 state solution. Never. Ever. Under no cirumstance.

And lets not kid ourselves here, there is only one strong military in this equation. The one ranked 16th in the world. the one with over 600K highly trained personnel, the one with fighter jets, tanks, warships, and submarines. And this is the side that is occupying the other side. It is the side that is AGAINST the 2 state solution. The other side has no fighter jets, no tanks, no warships, no submarines and less than 10% of the personnel.

In the meantime, Israel has already murdered at least one child and two women in 2019 - none of which represented a threat to any Israeli.

Israel says there will never be a Palestinian state. Whether hamas has a strong military or not. whether hamas exists or not. if hamas accepts two state solution or not. If every hamas member disarms tomorrow. If every hamas member dies tomorrow. Israel's stance is not based on hamas. Israel is against the two state solution. Israel will never allow a Palestinian state.

Israel is not looking for a way to co-exist peacefully but finding Hamas's strong military to be a problem. Israel just does not want to coexist peacefully.So, what hamas does, more weapons or less weapons ends up being irrelevant

Also, when Israel beats up civilians in the west bank, it is not because of what Hamas is doing. What hamas is doing is irrelevant to the equation that formulates Israeli actions.

When Israel shoots to kill father and son together in the west bank, this has nothing to do with Hamas. This is the occupation at work.

cheers.

Why is your history oh so selective?

Who was the 1st side to refuse to Co-Exist? Why does your history seem to miss some key dates?

You can't bring yourself to admit that a "STRONG MILITARY" that refuses to recognize the other side may just be part of the issue why there is no peace.. you can't do that because any sort of blame on the Palestinian side refuses to register

To 5 More Yrs of time well spent

You are still not reading.

I'm not being selective with "history". I'm talking about present day.

Also, I'm not the one who refuses to take hamas into consideration. Israel is not taking it into consideration.

I will spell it out again. Israel is not saying that there is a "Strong military" that is an obstacle to creating a 2 state solution. Only you are saying that. Israel is saying that itself, on its own, of its own behest, will not allow a 2 state solution. Never. Ever. Under no cirumstance.

And lets not kid ourselves here, there is only one strong military in this equation. The one ranked 16th in the world. the one with over 600K highly trained personnel, the one with fighter jets, tanks, warships, and submarines. And this is the side that is occupying the other side. It is the side that is AGAINST the 2 state solution. The other side has no fighter jets, no tanks, no warships, no submarines and less than 10% of the personnel.

In the meantime, Israel has already murdered at least one child and two women in 2019 - none of which represented a threat to any Israeli.

Like I said, unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues

They are that strong because they have to be.. To make sure History won't repeat itself.. Something that I wouldn't expect someone in your shoes to comprehend.

You try to dissect the present w/out acknowledging the past. You keep repeating "2 State" & "Co-Exist" but never do you mention that the Palestinians were the 1st to reject both & choose War instead.

Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.

For someone who is all about Peace & Coexistance, why will you never bring up the fact that the Palestinians were the 1st to reject both? Don't you see that you disregard any fact that puts some blame on the Palestinian side? i.e Hamas a "Strong Military" that refuses to recognize the other, playing a role in there being No Peace

Shuck wrote:Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.

Are you totally incapable of reading?

The Israeli government is saying it loud and clear: Prime Minister Netanyahu: never wants a Palestinian stateNafteli never wants a Palestinian stateAvigdor Leiberman: "doesnt care" for a Palestinian stateMinister of Justice Shaked: No Palestinian state. Also thinks Palestinian blood should be on Israeli handsMinister of Construction Gallant Dismisses Palestinian state, calls to annex West BankMinister of Science Akunis: A Palestinian state is a catastrophe

Where in all of that do you see that Israel is open to a 2 state solution?

Shuck wrote:. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.

terms? Here are the terms:Israelis: never allow a Palestinian state. Annex the west bank.Palestinians: accept 2 state solution

EvilGorilla69+1 wrote:Paindog is right. I never msg'ed him. Too bad, I didn't. Anyway. I want to make another attempt to try and clear out the 'air' with the aid of some bulletpoints.

Some important bulletpoints. 1st of all..It's not the recipe that makes the good food,but the cook.

Back on topic.

You've got a land that 'belongs' and is occupied by 'Palestinians'. They were there. It's undeniable.

Israel dudes needed a land.

They were given a part of that land.

50 years later they 'occupy'80-90% more square miles,or what not.

Spoiler:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Some people claim that these are the 'good guys'.

Is this real life?

Clarified that, apologies to Pain, shame Will won't take him up on his offer.

Bullet Points Revised:-Palestinians were living on Land that the Brits Controlled-Post Holocaust Brits came in & wanted to divide it into 3 Parts; Israel, Palestine & Jerusalem being run by a 3rd party, so both can have access to it-Instead of Coexisting in a 2 State Solution, Palestinians & their Neighbors (Egypt, Syria, Jordan & some Iraq forces) decided to Attack Israel (1948-49) once they declared themselves a State-They lost; roughly 700k palestinian refugees fled & roughly the same amount of jews were booted out of middle eastern countries & migrated to Israel-In 67 Egypt said they would close off the straits of tiran & lined up their military along the boarder (Israel said this act would be a declaration of War)-War of 67 went down & Israel defeated Jordan, Syria & Egypt-In the victory Israel captured the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria and the West Bank from Jordan.. land they felt was key for their Security. -The Countries that assisted the Palestinians in their Wars turned their backs on them, hence being trapped in Gaza & the WBank

Shuck wrote:Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.

Are you totally incapable of reading?

The Israeli government is saying it loud and clear: Prime Minister Netanyahu: never wants a Palestinian stateNafteli never wants a Palestinian stateAvigdor Leiberman: "doesnt care" for a Palestinian stateMinister of Justice Shaked: No Palestinian state. Also thinks Palestinian blood should be on Israeli handsMinister of Construction Gallant Dismisses Palestinian state, calls to annex West BankMinister of Science Akunis: A Palestinian state is a catastrophe

Where in all of that do you see that Israel is open to a 2 state solution?

Shuck wrote:. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.

terms? Here are the terms:Israelis: never allow a Palestinian state. Annex the west bank.Palestinians: accept 2 state solution

if only one of them would budge on their terms, right?

and unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.

they tried yah goof, why are you so incappable of checking your historical facts

& why are you totally incappable of coming to terms & admitting the facts; that Palestinians & their neighbors chose War instead of "COEXISTANCE" Your favorite word? why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge this simple fact?

that fearful of visiting the Middle East Will? don't you find it a bit pathetic that instead of experiencing something first hand because you may just shatter the lies your mind has manifested all these yrs? Pain is highly dissapointed Im sure but your response was expected

Shuck wrote:Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.

Are you totally incapable of reading?

The Israeli government is saying it loud and clear: Prime Minister Netanyahu: never wants a Palestinian stateNafteli never wants a Palestinian stateAvigdor Leiberman: "doesnt care" for a Palestinian stateMinister of Justice Shaked: No Palestinian state. Also thinks Palestinian blood should be on Israeli handsMinister of Construction Gallant Dismisses Palestinian state, calls to annex West BankMinister of Science Akunis: A Palestinian state is a catastrophe

Where in all of that do you see that Israel is open to a 2 state solution?

Shuck wrote:. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.

terms? Here are the terms:Israelis: never allow a Palestinian state. Annex the west bank.Palestinians: accept 2 state solution

if only one of them would budge on their terms, right?

and unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.

they tried yah goof, why are you so incappable of checking your historical facts& why are you totally incappable of coming to terms & admitting the facts; that Palestinians & their neighbors chose War instead of "COEXISTANCE" Your favorite word? why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge this simple fact?

Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the PalestiniansHistorical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their ownHistorical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signedHistorical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab statesHistorical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace InitiativeHistorical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948

Shuck wrote:Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.

Are you totally incapable of reading?

The Israeli government is saying it loud and clear: Prime Minister Netanyahu: never wants a Palestinian stateNafteli never wants a Palestinian stateAvigdor Leiberman: "doesnt care" for a Palestinian stateMinister of Justice Shaked: No Palestinian state. Also thinks Palestinian blood should be on Israeli handsMinister of Construction Gallant Dismisses Palestinian state, calls to annex West BankMinister of Science Akunis: A Palestinian state is a catastrophe

Where in all of that do you see that Israel is open to a 2 state solution?

Shuck wrote:. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.

terms? Here are the terms:Israelis: never allow a Palestinian state. Annex the west bank.Palestinians: accept 2 state solution

if only one of them would budge on their terms, right?

and unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.

they tried yah goof, why are you so incappable of checking your historical facts& why are you totally incappable of coming to terms & admitting the facts; that Palestinians & their neighbors chose War instead of "COEXISTANCE" Your favorite word? why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge this simple fact?

Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the PalestiniansHistorical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their ownHistorical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signedHistorical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab statesHistorical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace InitiativeHistorical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948

this is how Twisted your mind is; Brit declares a 2 State Solution, Jews move into their side, a War breaks out w/the Arab Countries that refuse to recognize Israel as a state & he calls this "Ethnic Cleansing" that shows how warped your mind is. What happened to "2 States" Will? "CoExistance" your favorite word, is it only relevant after they lose a War?

Some quotes from Golda Meir:"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.""Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Thanks for providing that Link, worked about as well as this thread has for yah

Please dig deeper into the terms that the Palestinians agreed to a 2 State Solution.. we would love to see those

Don't yah find it a tad bit weird that you are so obsessed about a place yet too fearful to visit & see if all you believe is really true?

willmma wrote:Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the PalestiniansHistorical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their ownHistorical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signedHistorical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab statesHistorical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace InitiativeHistorical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948

this is how Twisted your mind is; Brit declares a 2 State Solution, Jews move into their side, a War breaks out w/the Arab Countries that refuse to recognize Israel as a state & he calls this "Ethnic Cleansing" that shows how warped your mind is. What happened to "2 States" Will? "CoExistance" your favorite word, is it only relevant after they lose a War?

It's not my words man, its the words of Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. In the 1.5 hour interview above he details the ethnic cleansing process in 1948.Take it up with him.

Shuck wrote:Some quotes from Golda Meir:"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

How heart felt by Golda, she will never forgive the arabs for killing their children. typical twisted Israeli mental gymnastics.I wonder if these soldiers will ever forgive these guys they shot

Golda is a prime example of the twisted and sick logic of killing and blaming the victim.

So, Israeli historians say Israel ethnically cleansed 80% the Palestinian population in 1948, to make room for the newly arrived Jews from europe.Israel illegally occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967Israel illegally settles the west bank. Settlements have quadrupled since Israel signed the Oslo agreement in 1993Israelis assassinated their PM when he signed the Oslo peace accord in 1995Israel illegally abuses and kills Palestinian civilians - like documented by so many journalists and medical staff, all the timeIsrael says it will never accept a Palestinian state, killing any prosepect of a 2 state peace solution. Present dayShuck doesnt know what borders Israel should negotiate but wants them badlyShuck cant get himself to condemn shooting kids in the head for fun.And according to Golda Meir, she will never forgive the parents of that kid.