An open letter to the feds

It is now clear, with the criminal charge against former Mahoning County Treasurer Lisa Antonini, that the government-corruption floodgates are going to be opened. When that happens, other officeholders and public officials will be swept up in the gushing waters of the federal government’s investigation.

And once again, honest residents of Mahoning County, in particular, and the Mahoning Valley, in general, will have to live with the reality that political corruption is part of this region’s DNA.

Given that, it’s time for federal and state investigative agencies to develop a “No-Elect List” (similar to the No-Fly List) that would provide us with the names of those who are about to be indicted or who are “persons of interest.”

Why is this important? Because we don’t seem to have the ability to determine who’s honest and who isn’t when it comes to government.

Over the years, this writer has tried to get law-enforcement types to reveal the names of individuals who are on their radar screens, but to no avail.

SCIORTINO ILLUSTRATES PROBLEM

Mr. U.S. Attorney, last year’s race for Mahoning County auditor is a prime example of what happens when information is kept under wraps. Auditor Michael Sciortino sought re-election, and before the primary there were credible reports that he, along with others, would be indicted in the so-called Oakhill Renaissance scandal.

No one in a position to know would confirm the information, so Sciortino won the Democratic Party nomination — and shortly thereafter was indicted.

But it was too late to affect the outcome of his re-election. The predominance of Democrats in the county means a primary victory is tantamount to a win in the general.

Thus, Sciortino, who has held office since 2005, is still auditor — despite the fact that he and six others have been charged with criminal conspiracy and are awaiting trial in state court.

If only the voters had been forewarned.

The refusal of law enforcement to either indict Sciortino before the primary or issue a warning about him has resulted in his clinging to the position.

The other six defendants are county Commissioner John A. McNally IV; former county Treasurer John Reardon; former Job and Family Services Director John Zachariah; Atty. Martin Yavorcik; Anthony M. Cafaro Sr., former president of the Cafaro Co., and his sister, Flora, an officer in the company. Three Cafaro companies are also named as defendants.

Anthony Cafaro has been in the federal government’s cross hairs for some time. On April 24, the column in this space was headlined, “Is Cafaro Sr. a target of the feds?” The answer is yes. Indeed, a letter from the FBI to Cafaro’s lawyer, which was quoted in the column, shows that as far back as October he was being investigated for federal crimes.

With the departure of Antonini, who faces a federal criminal charge of taking money from a businessman — all signs point to Cafaro Sr. — and not declaring it, the Democratic Party precinct committeemen and women are preparing to fill the vacancy. They will meet on June 6, and while three people have declared their candidacies — John Yemma, deputy treasurer appointed by Antonini; Kenneth Carano, a long-time politico, and Roxanne DeNiro, a long time employee in the treasurer’s office — there may be others. The deadline for submitting letters of interest to party Chairman David Betras is May 31.

A “No-Elect List” would be timely and appropriate — given the cruddy political history of the Mahoning Valley.

An issuance of indictments in the next couple of weeks stemming from Antonini’s admission of wrongdoing would enable the Democratic Party insiders to determine if any of her potential successors should be red-flagged.

Mr. U.S. Attorney, Chairman Betras has stressed he does not intend to anoint anyone for the position of treasurer, nor is he going to dissuade anyone thinking of seeking the appointment. While that’s commendable, it does mean that there won’t be the kind of vetting of candidates that is obviously necessary.

So, here’s a proposal: Send this writer an e-mail (desouza@vindy.com) with the names of individuals on your radar screen, and if any are potential candidates for office, steps will be taken to erase them. Let us strike a blow for honest government.

Comments

If the US Attorney sees that one or more of the people seeking the appointment to be the new Treasurer is on his list, then he should consider the effect it will have on the community and figure out a way to have those people either drop out or indict them before June 6.

Another question, should the person that has the duty to oversee the appointment process, who is also on the Feds list, be allowed to continue? The answer is NO.

Just what the Valley needs, Bert. The law enforcement officials giving you news readers a leg up on who or what they may be investigating. After you put your own spin on it and blab it all over the universe, the Feds wouldn't be able to catch a cold....

Bertam, Bertram...you are so transparently laughable. You are sooooo mad that someone in federal law enforcement won't play the "maybe him" game with you that you dare them to do so under the guise of doing a public service. You're just trying to drum up some gossip to put in your little column. The dangerous thing you suggest is that anyone who has been accused or suspected of a crime...or whoever made their acquaintance...must be put on some kind of a "black list". Why not just make them wear a scarlet letter or force them undergo trial by ordeal? Let's see where real facts in a court of law lead. Your campaign of rumor, innuendo and class-warfare would be laughable, if it were not so dangerous.

Maybe we as voters should elect all the Cafaros by write in votes. That way they would have to toe the line or they themselves would be the ones going o jail for corruption, not the elected officials who go now for breaking the law. Its just a thought!!!!!!!!!!!!

The indictment alleges, among other things, that the Ohio Valley Mall Co. and Marion Plaza were involved in "money laundering, tampering with records, perjury, bribery and soliciting or receiving improper compensation." The indictment also alleges those named formed an enterprise involving many of the same charges to help block Mahoning County's purchase of the building. The pattern of corrupt activity is alleged to have taken place between February 2004 and December 2008.

In 2008, several players in the saga, including McNally, Reardon and Anthony Cafaro, were asked to submit records to the grand jury pertaining to Oakhill.

According to the court documents filed Thursday, the Cafaros, McNally, Reardon, Sciortino, Zachariah and Yavorcik committed bribery during their conspiracy to keep the building's purchase from proceeding.

Okay logic rules the day again I see. So we now need to push back every protection the US Constitution provides and begin punishing those we think maybe, sorta, could be guilty without due process??? So if the defendants in this case are found innocent, which they are PRESUMED TO BE until the state PROOVES wrongdoing beyond a reasonable doubt, they should be punished. Sciortino won the election (hugely) with it clearly known that there were questions. One of his opponents ran against the 'indicted' candidate as all of his literature stated. None-theless- Markovitch, Windbush spanked. Thank goodness people believe in American protections about allegations having to be run through due process. According to this, we can pretty much do away with all courts and just let de Souza decide. Quit being bitter Bertram, The Plain Dealer wont have you. This is as big as it gets for you.

It is close to the downtown and was bought cheap . McGuffey is in a state of decay and they were obligated to pay for repairs . Why do repairs for the landlord ? McGuffey was a bad deal from day one for the taxpayers .

I look beyond the Cafaro veneer . There is nothing wrong with what the Cafaros did if you are a Cafaro or one of their supporters . Corruption of public officials does have its rewards . Owning Judge Maureen Cronin had its rewards also . Right now we are waiting for one of the insiders at Cafaro Enterprises to sing . It may get interesting .

OK...OK you can all DUCK the questions. Do you REALLY believe that George, Dave and Anthony felt or could prove Oakhill was a better deal. Why do the tremendously high mounting bills not bother their supporters. The cost of the facility has ALREADY gone far beyond the cost of Garland. The accusers of the Oakhill Seven sound somewhat hypocritical in their blind support of their opponents. Lets get one thing straight, the proponents of Oakhill are engaged in the same political peeing match that they accuse others of. Please dont be fooled into thinking they are white knights for the community. Theyre either hypocrites or dumb. I prefer a combination of both qualities be applied. Do me a favor and pull George's campaign finance records for when he ran for office----wonder if he ever took Cafaro money????

Stan: You are right. Do you think Oakhill has helpd us financially or not? Simple question. Sure Cafaros are bad and all politicians are crooks and yes you have nothing better to do than comment on news articles BUT I guarantee you can find no factual basis for the assertion that Oakhill has helped the taxpayers of Mahoning County, I mean other than some emotional plea that doesn't require little things LIKE MATH.

The McGuffey Mall needed a lot of repairs that we were obligated to pay for besides the rent . The McGuffey Mall was falling apart and at the end of its life span . We own Oakhill, not the Cafaros . Sure the building needs maintenence as all buildings do but it will outlive the McGuffey Mall by many years . Yes it is a better deal for the taxpayers but not for the Cafaros .

Now getting to your math . Money put into Cafaros account benefits only the Cafaros . I don't feel obligated to the Cafaros . Do you ?

Stan, Stan, Stan....so easy. Would you say that the abandoned Southside Hospital was at the beginning of its life span? Probably not, huh? By the way, when you OWN a building you pay ALL the repairs. Wonder if you would have enjoyed doing your "onestop" government shopping when that smokestack crumbled to the ground? Just because the Cafaros owned Garland WHICH I AGREE SUCKED SO GET OFF IT...does not justify the money pit acquisition of Oakhill which you continue to see actual numbers for but never respond to. Stan, how much was the monthly rent at Garland? I know you don't know. Then compare it to a February gas bill at Oakhill. I'll give you 2 days to answer and you still wont. That is because you continue to TAKE SIDES. I am only saying that decision to move to Oakhill has been devastating to the Mahoning County budget and the decision was short-sighted and based on politics not the good of Mahoning County. We're still Slammin ya Slammin' Stan.

Oakhill can be fine tuned for expenses and upkeep . It's not like it wont last for years after the initial expense . How close is the McGuffey Mall to being a demolition candidate ? Very close I would say . Does it make the Caforos money ? I would say the expenses outstripped the income when Oakhill was moved into and McGuffey abandoned . The McGuffey Mall is soon destined for the same fate as the old K-Mart and Stambaugh building on Belmont .

Slammin Sam: Give me some NUMBERS..You cant and quite frankly just admit that like Tablack and Traficanti the facts dont matter to you; just getting back at the evil Cafaros is all you're worried about. Fine tuning is is a freaking joke. Please Slammin Stan, just shoot out what you roughly think that fine tuning will cost. Don't know do ya? Roghly 6 million has been spent on reapirs and the like plus a million buck in back taxes that Tablack promised we wouldn't have to pay but now do. You must be gettin' awful sore from all these body slams - SLAMMIN STAN. You don't even sound close to right. Fine tuning HA! Again though, and because you have NO ARGUMENT you keep bringning up Garland which EVERYONE AGREES WAS BAD SO GET OVER IT! Oakhill is worde that's clear, factual and plain to see.

Aw Zoned, you sound like a disgruntled Cafaro who sees it as his right to keep his hand in the taxpayers pocket . Blowin smoke to cloud the issues ? Get over it and make plans to level the McGuffey Plaza since it isn't a money making venture and there are no buyers .

Any new future construction should meet with the approval of the taxpayers . Right now the top priority is the restoration already in progress .

Blowing smoke. List ONE number to support your claims? You must not be able to understand the comment I made previously about agreeing that Garland was bad so how that shows I support the Cafaros only you can guess. Guees it doesn't matter how much that restoration you speak of actually costs because of your love affair with Traficanti and George the true trough feeders. You just DONT KNOW SLammin Stan that there might actually be a couple of intelligent folk here that base there opinions on FACT rather than the Cafaro obssessed that you represent. I haven't defended or supported that group of individuals in one post, but you have an almost mystical spell cast upon you by them. Figures (raw data) Slammin Stan just one. Certainly the figure 7,193 comments muts be backed by something of record or fact. Again Stanny Boy Garland was bad - Give us the reasons you like Oakhill other than the Cafaros dont own it. Just one reason. If I can't smack you down again...I'll...I'll... well I KNOW I'LL SMACK YOU DOWN AGAIN!

Pffffffttttt, I am impressed over your outburst . . .. You have already been smacked down when The McGuffey Plaza was vacated . . .. I'm sure that there are lots of wise guys in the Cafaro organization . Should I be impressed ?

You should be impressed, as we all should be, at your blind ignorance to factual information and your continued ability to not be ashamed of yourself. Im still waiting for just one number. Cmon Slammin Stan just an itty bitty one without using the name Cafaro. Can't do it can ya, simply not informed enough. Typical Tablack kool-aid swiller, Eatin' those Traficanti tablets again.

Gross stupidity on your part that everyone will blindly follow after a dose of your BS . You have informed us very well that your allegiance is with the CAFAROS . Are you an underdog or a top dog with them ?

I know that I am right on target . . .. I would have been disappointed if the Cafaros and their supporters weren't blowin smoke trying to cloud the issue . This shows that the Feds have a grip in a very sensitive spot ! If there is any prison time involved Jimbo will be glad to give you some survival tips . . ..

EEAASSY SLAMMIN STAN: I really didnt understand that as a threat more like he thinks you're an A$$ hole... I think that is what he was trying to say. He did it in a nice way though. If these guys are found innocent Slammin Stan, are you going to apologize? I know you have already developed excuses like... everyone is corrupt. The trial was fixed even though its outside judges AND prosecutors despite the fact that Gain's people did all the work. Will you then say he's corrupt and was bought off? You have to admit though you gotta hate Highcherokee and myself. CUZ WE KEEP SMACKIN YOU AROUND.

"EEAASSY SLAMMIN STAN: I really didnt understand that as a threat more like he thinks you're an A$$ hole... I think that is what he was trying to say. He did it in a nice way though."

I'll do my best to convince The Feds that only a nice guy and not a wise guy would say anthing like that . However , the slammer is full of nice guys that look upon everyone who champions the rules of society as an A-HOLE .

SLAMMIN STAN, are you really working for the Feds. you mean like a secret agent man? I guees those 7208 comments are helping you keep a low profile, sort of a diversion tactic. Remember, impersonating an officer of the Federal Government is a crime. But your still safe if you just continue to impersonate an A$$hole.

You keep right on making sure that those dollar sandwiches that you are selling are acceptable to your tatse buds . I don't think that you will find many buyers . I am not low profile nor do I work for The Feds . I do however have the means to get information from a broad range of sources and keep the public informed .

Slammin Stan you would think a man as important as you would be busy, like with a JOB or something. Finally you agree to use some numbers in your argument for Oakhill! What with your highly sophisticated and worldly means of gathering information. You should be able to get one accurate cost figure on what WASTEHILL has been so far, c'mon Slammin Stan just one # from public records. A guy as "hooked in" as you should be able to do that. Hey Slammin Stan...SLAM!SLAM!SLAM!

Just the same it just has to be intended satire or fit to be satirized. Because even for Betram, anyone bearing any real sense. Absolutely has to now be pondering if this stunt is either more consciously hilarious than it's unconscionably ridiculous. In deliberating between the two I'm flummoxed as to which it is,.. ecstatic or ludicrous?

See any compliance with such a delving request. Would be like we as patrons and consumers contacting the FDA. With a individual or class action request, plea or De facto demand. Intimating assistance for making our favorite snack food or soft drink manufacturers turn over how they produce their product.

Or taking the mind of going to our favorite eatery and formally or informally requesting their recipes, mixes. Where if it's a family dish we'd like to get the goods on. If our direct request to aunt Martha for her gumbo, cousin Lucy to fork over the secret of her multi cheese macaroni, or uncle Dorian's BBQ marinade isn't complied. We step it up by soliciting grandma to make em comply. Or buddy up to grand dad to use his authority to force em to flip,..

Sure off a hit or miss I've gotten what I'd believe is the recipe for making my own Orange Julius. I got the pet milk and eggs mixture for making lemon margarine pies and even out due store brand salsas. But I didn't get the mixtures of any of the Soda pops and none of the best family recipes either.

So in just accepting leaving those curiosities to perspective experts. I'm sensibly resigned to being all but certain I'm never gonna get em either. To include somehow I don't think soliciting Bertram to send them letters from Vindicator are going to do it either,..

Hey Nunya, whatever prose that is, and I continue to cite the influence of such great writers as Sheen and Manson, I am sure someone with an appropriate dose of LSD could maybe then decipher that and then only maybe. The problem isn't that the honest information is available, its just your dismay about the fact that it shows how wrong you are. Debate the issues with facts Nunya, I would expect better from someone as hysterical as you. You and Stan use provocative tabloid language and continue to be curious as to why the paparazzi club you belong to ends up only talking about what you do not know.

Well, you are only partially right . I can see now why you are called wise guys . A mystery to me is the total amount expended by the Cafaro Enterprise to purchase the loyalty of politicians is indeed beyond my realm of discovery . The politicians involved have been illuminated . Who knows, perhaps as the squeeze goes on then to facilitate pain relief the divulgence may put the total for public eyes to see .

I can assure you, and this is truly depressing, public records and your precious Feds have only been able to find a fraction dispersed by the Cafao's in comparison to gross mismanagement and waste Traficanti, Ludt and Tablack spewed out in the purchase of Wastehill. They sold the security of Mahoning County for their own egos and its cost us far more than any Caforo bribe. They lied to you, me and the rest of the citizens as badly as anyone whose confessed to the public. Remember Wastehill was only supposed to cost 75, 000.00. In the millions now and the hits just keep on coming. Slammin Stan wouldn't you like to be wise about something ./...Anything? SLAMOLA, SLAMALAMADINGDONG!

umm....people nobody cares about this valley...thats why its so corrupt...it WILL never change...thats why i am outta here this place is the biggest joke in Ohio....lol...we went from being important ( when we had mills) to NOTHING and Columbus knows it ...lolololololololol...seriously...what do WE have to offer the state ...roflmao...NOTHING nut Mr. Peanut as Mayor saying crime is down...lol....yup go back to mt calvary and roast that peanut...Antonini and Scorin what ever have hid the fact that that church has screwed ytown and the state as far as taxes and now they want an exemption...lol....4 WHAt ...you prove to me that all those property's are church function and related....lol...thats a laugh...residents the church has screwed us out of a park that was AT LEAST something to do...screw paying 50 bucks and whatever in gas to goto cedar point....the church and its members (JAY WILLIAMS ) burned the park saying they would erase all memories" and they did...its a waste land and nothing is there ...so what makes you think anyone ....especially the feds would care about y-dump

Cafaro also filed a breach of lease complaint, alleging the county owed the company $1.1 million for improvements it promised under the lease agreement. That lawsuit was settled out of court, and the county has agreed to pay Cafaro more than $900,000 in installments over the next four years.

Tablack said the litigation and the delays cost the county a total of $360,000 in legal fees and racked up additional costs related to lease preparation of the building to the tune of $460,000.

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It is time to end the games with the Cafaros and get serious . The taxpayers have been milked of enough money .

Nicely, Nicely done. I am so proud of you that I'll refer to you as Stan. Now if they are acquitted, will that have been a waste of money due to a political witch hunt? Seeing how Tablack has been so accurate with the WASTEHILL costs, I question that number as low actually. Now apply yourself. Show me the numbers that support purchasing, renovating, and paying the million dollar taxbill on WASTEHILL. I mean if you can...I believe that once you start adding your mind will change. Again Stan, WE ALL AGREE that Garland was bad. SOOOOOOOOOOOOO please just the facts ma'am. Very poud of you Stan, you just remember you keep arguing against the Cafaros when no one is arguing for them.

Carlstaatz?How much did the county expend thus far on WASTEHILL?Everyone agrees we should have left Garland.Did you know that architectually WASTEHILL will soon exhibit very serious and expensive revovations related to the foundation? Did you know it was a miracle that no one was injured when the near century old smoke stack collapsed? Do you know the monthly cost of utilities? Do you have any idea how much the county has spent on heating and cooling renovations. Did you know that our facilities line item exploded due to the purchase of this wreck? If it was such a wonderful facility why did it do so poorly as Renaisance Place? Do you know what we now owe in back taxes which Traficanti and Georgie Boy promised we would not? Again, everyone agrees, again, no one is arguing FOR Garland- who are you fighting with? You don' t really believe that the WASTEHILL was the best choice when we could have BUILT a new government center cheaper?

Dealing with the Cafaros was bad from day one . They have no shame in being at the trough for taxpayer money . This time around let's get serious with their corruption of our public officials and dole out some serious prison time .

Hey Zoned, since you seem to know it all about Oakhill, Tablack and Traficanti, please enlighten us to all of these facts you have, maybe you can convince us to have the same hatred you have for those two.

Some real facts with links to the sources or cork your Traficanti, Tablack, Oakhill Hating pie hole.It tires me when I see people like you who just slander people without no real facts. Oakhill was the best move at the time, and you know it.

Where did I slander Jamie Ludt, and provide links to your facts Charlie. Just do not make accusations. SEE that is Jamie's problem too, he makes accusations without the facts to back them up with. There was a good reason that thread was shut down, and I am sure the Vindy told you why when you called to complain.

I thought you were banned from posting, all you did was repeat and repeat the same thing that nobody really cared about? Get over it.

Okay all the hearsay and irresponsible banter about the Cafaros. One of the largest land contract companies in the US,doesn't necessarily mean they have their hands in corruption. Anyone and all of us bought a lemon. In that respect to the Cafaro family. Land is wealth and power and the lemons are exponential if the right deal is not struck on both parts.

As I live and breathe I have witnessed all types of corruption in the Mahoning Valley as it has been in the past contaminated and saturated with such,and if posed with Mickey Mouse questioning if I would have a meal with Flora Cafaro the answer has always been and always will be a YES she never misrepresented herself to us a children growing up in the valley and surrounding area.

The Valley is not going to repair itself with finger pointers and people who sit on their hands. So if the actions taken by said defendant (Cafaro) got the ball rolling to inject some life back into the valley, most of you shouldn't be upset that it wan't your decision to make. Albeit the loss has been great! Had one of them decided to pay for it out of their own pocket maybe we wouldn't be facilitating our feelings in my case facts to each other. Some of us are corrupted with selfishness!

Is that you Nunya? Hey everybody can you decipher the babble from kombat?

All I could get out of it was why are you all bashing the Cafaro's, they are like god's here in the valley.

All I can respond with is, why the envelopes full of cash being exchanged in the back of limos then? Why not just make the exchange on the county court steps, no envelopes, just cold hard cash exchanging hands, if you feel there is no harm or foul going on?

No Stan, I think it is JJ himself, or maybe even Capri, trying to mount a defense for their family, when really there is no defense for lining the palms of politicians, Judges, etc., with cash to protect their interests financially. Kind of like stacking the deck in their favor?

Here everyone is just one example of how YTOWN1 slams the people of the Mahoning Valley:

"If you told someone about this thread, they would never believe you and would ask for a link so they could see it for themselves, I would refuse based on the fact that they would believe everyone is Youngstown is a loon like Jamie b Ludt AKA fedupwithcrap. Too funny. You just can't make up this stuff."

Oh and read the post again, I said slander people, not Jamie Ludt!!!! Of course, what proof of envelopes in the back of a limousine do you have either, unless you were there yourself?

"All I can respond with is, why the envelopes full of cash being exchanged in the back of limos then? " Didn't you just say that?

The investigation of the Cafaros no doubt is reaching far beyond The Valley . Data that I have come across has some very interesting intersections that one can only conclude that their actions are organized and not legal . I predict that the squeeze being put on them will have some very interesting results . The only unknown is whether their associates will continue to support them or kick them under the bus .

Charlie, it is public knowledge that Tsagaris and Cronin received loans in cash, I guess the envelope comment may not be the total truth but would you be handing over that much cash out in the open if you were them? I think not, so no slander on my part, the court records show the deceit that took place, whether there was an envelope involved is minor compared to the injustice and illegal activity that the Cafaro's and our public officials have been able to perform for some time.

I truly believe that there was and is a lot more of this we just do not know about and may never know about. But it has been going on for a long time, remember this is second and third generations we are talking about, they learned it from some one, and who best but from their fathers and grandfather.

So fedupwithcrap (Charlie) or Jamie Ludt, who ever you may be keep trying to discredit me, but I some with facts, yours are only accusations in your own minds, if you had any facts to back them up you should be able to find someone to prosecute those people you accuse, even if you take it all the way to the state attorney general, or even the feds if need be, your only problem is your facts just do not hold water, mainly because of how you have obtained those facts, unbelievable facts is what you have. So get over it already.

By the way I am not the only one who disagreed with you, why are you not attacking them here on Vindy.com? There were at least 5-6 others that tried to make you understand what you were posting about was just not going to go anywhere, the repeated posts over and over again, and the contrived meeting at Perkins or where ever, were just not what the average person posting on here does, and these types of actions could get out of hand if you actually were to met someone in person and not just here in cyber space. So do you now understand why that thread had to be shut down? If not you are just a lost cause.

By the way Charlie, the only way you could cut and paste that comment was if you were reading my posts by searching through all posts presented by me here on vindy.com. What are you a stalker?

Maybe I need to have a conversation with the prosecutor about that situation.

One other comment about this thread, as I prefer to keep them on subject when ever possible, is the real sad part about Tsagaris, Cronin, and now Antonini is, that they are the fall guys in this and the person forking over the cash should receive the same if not more punishment for attempting to skew the political process in the first place. Now there I have said it all where it concerns the Cafaro's, if that is slander then so be it.

1. The Feds handing out a black list won't happen, under current law they would then lose the ability to prosecute those people.2. If the Democrats and Republican machines continue to spit out corrupt politicians, you and the the Vindicator as a voice of the people should be doing everything you can to make sure that the voters know about all of the third party & independent candidates that are available and what those parties stand for.

My point being, when was the last time the Vindicator or you endorsed a candidate that wasn't a Rep or a Dem. Try a Green, a Libertarian, a Socialist, or some other party member; or at the very least give them some positive press so that they can get their message out. As I see it you and the Vindy are as much a part of the problem as the voters who you continually blame!

@ytown1, in reference to your comment # 83, you said, " What are you a stalker?Maybe I need to have a conversation with the prosecutor about that situation?"

You have any conversation you want with the prosecutor you wish, you might want to remember one thing: What you put out here is for the public!! You might also want to read the terms of use!!

Try educating yourself, before you think you can try to bully or intimidate me!!! I am not Jamie Ludt, and everything that I said was the truth!! Aren't you the same person that said," Jamie ludt is a loon, just like fedupwithcrap?" I haven't tried to discredit you, you have done a great job at that on your own!!! Oh, and I have no problem sitting across from you in a court, do you?

What proof do you have that Jamie Ludt is anything other than telling the truth? Slander is what you said about myself and Jamie Ludt!! And believe me, copy and pasting your comments into another post by the vindy is not violating anyones rules. If you don't want something repeated, don't say it!!

All anyone has to do is read your comments, and make up their own minds about how you interpret situations here in the valley!!!

Keep trying to discredit me, but I come with facts, yours are only accusations in your own minds, if you had any facts to back them up you should be able to find someone to prosecute those people you accuse, even if you take it all the way to the state attorney general, or even the feds if need be, your only problem is your facts just do not hold water, mainly because of how you have obtained those facts, unbelievable facts is what you have. So get over it already.

By the way I am not the only one who disagreed with you, why are you not attacking them here on Vindy.com? There were at least 5-6 others that tried to make you understand what you were posting about was just not going to go anywhere, the repeated posts over and over again, and the contrived meeting at Perkins or where ever, were just not what the average person posting on here does, and these types of actions could get out of hand if you actually were to met someone in person and not just here in cyber space. So do you now understand why that thread had to be shut down? If not you are just a lost cause.

I will tell you one more time, if Jamie or yourself has the facts, bring it on and prosecute, other wise stand down and mind your own business. This will be the last time I will respond to your repeated attempts to continue this stupid rant concerning Jamie Ludt, go target someone else that disagreed with you on the thread that was shut down, because I refuse to give you any more of my time. If you cannot stay on topic I will continue to flag your posts.