And I'm hoping that things thaw over time to where we can retire Ray's here as well.

The BIG THREE won Banner 17, not the BIG TWO. Things didn't reportedly go south between Ray and Co. until sometime after Banner 17 - and TBH it's petty in the larger scheme of things.

The Boston Celtics are a class organization and I'd hope that they'd consider putting Ray's up there as well.

Ray Allen was one of the most clutchest, cold-blooded shooters that BOS has EVER had - just ask Sasha Vujacic.

He's going to be a first ballot HOFer I'm certain.

No way Ray's number should be up there.

Forget the way he left. Just didnt do enough when he was here. KG was the best player on the team and is credited for completely changing the team culture. Ray was the 3rd best player on the team and by the 2010 he was the 4th best player. He also had 1 less year than KG.

And I'm hoping that things thaw over time to where we can retire Ray's here as well.

The BIG THREE won Banner 17, not the BIG TWO. Things didn't reportedly go south between Ray and Co. until sometime after Banner 17 - and TBH it's petty in the larger scheme of things.

The Boston Celtics are a class organization and I'd hope that they'd consider putting Ray's up there as well.

Ray Allen was one of the most clutchest, cold-blooded shooters that BOS has EVER had - just ask Sasha Vujacic.

He's going to be a first ballot HOFer I'm certain.

No way Ray's number should be up there.

Forget the way he left. Just didnt do enough when he was here. KG was the best player on the team and is credited for completely changing the team culture. Ray was the 3rd best player on the team and by the 2010 he was the 4th best player. He also had 1 less year than KG.

And I'm hoping that things thaw over time to where we can retire Ray's here as well.

The BIG THREE won Banner 17, not the BIG TWO. Things didn't reportedly go south between Ray and Co. until sometime after Banner 17 - and TBH it's petty in the larger scheme of things.

The Boston Celtics are a class organization and I'd hope that they'd consider putting Ray's up there as well.

Ray Allen was one of the most clutchest, cold-blooded shooters that BOS has EVER had - just ask Sasha Vujacic.

He's going to be a first ballot HOFer I'm certain.

No way Ray's number should be up there.

Forget the way he left. Just didnt do enough when he was here. KG was the best player on the team and is credited for completely changing the team culture. Ray was the 3rd best player on the team and by the 2010 he was the 4th best player. He also had 1 less year than KG.

Let's all put aside our irrational feelings about Ray and give the man credit. No he wasn't KG but he was certainly a key piece and KG would NOT have come here if it weren't for Ray.

Paul wasn't drawing KG by himself.

Even though I agree that Ray had a lot of important moments playing for the Celtics, I still don't believe that he's worthy of getting his jersey retired. Especially considering the way he left the team and - to some extent - bailed on his teammates.

There is a discernible difference btw the two. It was there in the summer of '07 and it continued to be there during the years of contention. KG & Ray never were equals. That's before even getting into any of the MIA stuff (which actually doesn't move the needle for me one way or another).

The KG acquisition changed everything. It put the Celtics back on the map for the casual fans in the area. It's what got them plastered all over national tv. KG is what created the buzz, changed the culture, & ultimately was the anchor on those teams.

KG & Ray never were equals. This isn't a basketball skill thing.

I was mostly playing devils advocate but I don't believe either should be in the rafters, but to continue the devils advocate theme, without Allen there is no KG and without both there is no title. Additionally when Allen left the team fell off the map. I really do think you can make a legit argument that Allen was the player that made those teams go. Without his shooting the team just wasn't very good. He made that offense go just as much as KG made the defense go and the reality is offense is and always has been more important then defense when looking at real contenders.

Dont hide behind "devils advocate"

Do you really believe that Ray Allen and KG were of similar importance?

No, KG was the better player (and thus more important), but KG wasn't so much greater and didn't play so much longer that I feel he should be in the rafters either.

Not going to read through 4 pages so not sure it's been said, but Scal mentioned on his Sirius morning show that it is happening. So i guess that means the cat is out of the bag?All I can say is I hope it's not as drawn out as Pierces was, that ceremony was a little over the top.

People can talk about KG "only won one title in Boston" or wasn't here that long, but that is a very pretentious look at it in my opinion. KG absolutely changed the culture in Boston more than any other player for that 2008 title run. Pierce made changes to his game in order to make room for others, but it was KG who had his finger prints all over that title.

The way I look at it is, can I see any player ever wearing #5 again for the Celtics? For me the answer is absolutely not. I could most definitely see a player wearing #20 though (as Hayward is)

I'd even possibly consider Rondo's #9 but I don't think he had quite the impact KG did even though he was on the team longer.

Also, KG helped fetch the treasure trove of assets that landed us Tatum and Brown, so that counts for something in my opinion too. Haha

And I'm hoping that things thaw over time to where we can retire Ray's here as well.

The BIG THREE won Banner 17, not the BIG TWO. Things didn't reportedly go south between Ray and Co. until sometime after Banner 17 - and TBH it's petty in the larger scheme of things.

The Boston Celtics are a class organization and I'd hope that they'd consider putting Ray's up there as well.

Ray Allen was one of the most clutchest, cold-blooded shooters that BOS has EVER had - just ask Sasha Vujacic.

He's going to be a first ballot HOFer I'm certain.

No way Ray's number should be up there.

Forget the way he left. Just didnt do enough when he was here. KG was the best player on the team and is credited for completely changing the team culture. Ray was the 3rd best player on the team and by the 2010 he was the 4th best player. He also had 1 less year than KG.

Let's all put aside our irrational feelings about Ray and give the man credit. No he wasn't KG but he was certainly a key piece and KG would NOT have come here if it weren't for Ray.

Paul wasn't drawing KG by himself.

Should we retire the jersey of every contributor on every single Celtics team?

Think of all the clutch shots and clutch D Posey played?? put his number in the rafters now!!!

What about Perk's interior defense. Rafters. Now.

Rondo's near triple double in the clinching game 6. No one else should ever wear 9. Who else is going up in the rafters? Scal? unmatched bench presensce?

It's not irrational. If Ray's number is retired he's have the 2nd fewest rings (behind Reggie Lewis) and the shortest tenure of any retired number. He was the 3rd best player on 1 championship team. He was here for 4 years. He just didn't do enough.

Logged

Quote from: George W. Bush

Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

I think you absolutely have to retire KG's number. He transformed the franchise, his effect changed the league-wide and world-wide reputation of the Celtics and the city of Boston to the point that free agents want to come here. He embodied our defensive culture and what being a Celtic legend is all about. Its a crime if he doesn't get his number up in the rafters.

Why, because he wore a JoJo jersey when he was in middle school? Come on now. He bolted this team the moment the grind got hard. His jersey isn't going in the rafters. KG's is. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

Logged

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Why, because he wore a JoJo jersey when he was in middle school? Come on now. He bolted this team the moment the grind got hard. His jersey isn't going in the rafters. KG's is. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

If we take Ray at his word, he said he left to Miami for his family. If that's true, I get it. The wife and kids always win in these decisions, and sometimes its hard to explain that to your friends so you just don't talk about it.