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ThePreacher> Good point. Best firewall is to set up a nix box between you and the outside world. Well, not the best, because CPFW-1 is better, but definatly the best for anyone that isn't rich.

GuardianAngel> You made some very good points, but you forgot one very very important point also. A firewall doesn't work for crap if you don't set it up properly. If I accidently allow the wrong outbout connection, the trojan is still gonna connect. The firewall can give you a false sence of security. I have seen copies of zone alarm installed on computers where the user gave sub 7 access to the internet, then couldn't figure out what was going on with their machine.

It's like the whole "stealth mode" crap that grc has been preaching. I don't care if you computer operates in stealth mode. If someone wants in, they will get in.

Most people in here would die of laughter if you ever saw the security I use on my personal computer. I have an antivirus....thats it. I don't run any firewall, I haven't done 90% or the security updates, and I haven't had a problem with it yet. I figure if someone wants to hack me, let em. I dl programs just to see what they do. I have intentionally run virii on it to see how they work. etc etc. Oh yeah, I have norton ghost with a backup of my system on cd, so its only about an hour to redo it. Remeber, this is my personal computer, not my work system.

As they say, the BIGGEST weakness in any security system is the enduser. I don't even worry about the rest. As long as I know what caused something to happen, then I can make sure it doesn't happen again.

You do realize that with that attitude Souleman you could very well be a liability for someone else? I realize it's your box and you can do with it as you like but maybe you should take the box offline to do those things with it.

Ghost may work for you while runing without a firewall but you could very weel be harming other people.

Just food for thought.

Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
- Samuel Johnson

Korp> I do that off line. Laptop with dialup connection. I am not quite that stupid. I don't need to be used as a jumping off point for a hack against the NSA or something If I need to test something on a network, I do it on my own. I don't run something like a virus or trojan while connected to the internet. I also make sure that it is completely gone before I ever reconnect.

Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to acquire it.
- Samuel Johnson

souleman > agreed to a few of your points re: endusers and false sense of security.

We spend a lot of time working with people requesting ruleset review, etc. Even then, one wrong click and ..... but, the best you can do is better than doing nothing at all.

I have watched enough incoming code red and nimda scans, and had enough other exploits run at my border box to not want unknowing users to remain unknowing.

I have also spent enough time with people who have had their identities stolen and their lives temporarily trashed because of Trojan Servers.

Sure I download and play with Trojans and with Viruses. But I do that on a trash box (an old 486) and I DC from the network before I let em loose. Before they go back online, a low level format and reinstalled OS are always first.

My point in this whole thread is that new releases are good if they do what they are supposed to do, even if they have had a problematic past, and that the way things are headedd for Windoze users, those that aware at all, should start looking now with an open mind, because the times they are a changin.

GA> I haven't really disagreed with a single thing you said. There are plenty of free firewalls out there. Eventually, someone will find ways to defeat them all, and they will all have to be upgraded. So, as you said, eventually, we will have to pay for them, if you want a personal firewall. If you have an extra machine, I would still suggest a linux/snort box between your computer and the outside world, but that is a LOT more work to configure properly. As for right now, Sygate is the personal firewall that I recommend to people that I know.

Not sure exactly who you are, because you only have posts in the one thread. Anyway, it probably looks like Confirmed_Kill, ThePreacher, and myself are total pains in the ass. Well, a lot of it has to do with the attitude of the original poster.

WELL WELL WELL, what the heck are you wait for? Upgrade your BlackICE to version 3.5!

Why can't people actually try things before they even post here? VERSION FREAKING 3.5, NOT THE OLD FREAKING DAME 2.9. DOWNLOAD YOUR DEMO VERSION OF 3.5 AT...

People people people! Expand your knowledge by trying to accecpt new things. Don't stay in the past where everything basically sucks...

All the caps...sounds like he is trying to order people around. Its like a Heavy Metal singer trying to promote his own product. That is not the attitude of someone trying to help others. I'll admit, lawrence171 is going through some ruff times right now (look at his mood), but he is the one acting "close minded." We NEVER said that the product sucked. We said that it used to suck, and we were suspecious about the newest release. He got defencive, and aggressive. In all honesty, I am somewhat surprised that this didn't become a flame thread after the 4th post....

I understand your concern with such a vociferous promo of a previously dubious product. And yes the original poster could be a little over excited.

I have no quarrel here, I haven't posted here before today because I am involved with so many other things and have just not taken time to post here yet, though you can see I registered a little while back.