Diable line of Elf Joker7

Diable line of Elf Joker7

Hi there,
Just got Elf Joker7, 11m and 15m. What is the use of the diable line there?
Thanks.
Ariel

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:09 pm

by Mossy 757

You can tune the bridle as well as your bar so that when you let out your trimmer all the way and pull the bar against the chicken loop it increases the final ratios of the bridle to greatly increase camber for more downwind angle. When I first flew my 15m, my flying lines were all equal length with the trimmer at full power and my bar against my chicken loop. In this setup, the Diablo line did not even engage. I shortened my rear lines a tiny amount so that being fully sheeted at full power induced some oversheeting (backstall) which helped me control the kite at the edge of the wind window, and also helped the Diablo line engage. Now that my bar has this oversheeting tuned into it, my "full power" downwind setting is letting the trimmer all the way out, then pulling it back in about 1".

I think the trick for tuning it is to get the kite so that it flies very well at full power downwind, then gradually increase the amount the Diablo engages until you find the sweet spot.

As highly engineered as Elfs are, they definitely need an experienced hand when setting them up for the race course, and their speed system is not the easiest to adjust compared to Flysurfer or the new Ozone system. I still don't feel like I ever really got mine dialed in correctly, but once I'm done with my post-injury rehab intend to spend a lot of time messing around tuning it.

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

You can tune the bridle as well as your bar so that when you let out your trimmer all the way and pull the bar against the chicken loop it increases the final ratios of the bridle to greatly increase camber for more downwind angle. When I first flew my 15m, my flying lines were all equal length with the trimmer at full power and my bar against my chicken loop. In this setup, the Diablo line did not even engage. I shortened my rear lines a tiny amount so that being fully sheeted at full power induced some oversheeting (backstall) which helped me control the kite at the edge of the wind window, and also helped the Diablo line engage. Now that my bar has this oversheeting tuned into it, my "full power" downwind setting is letting the trimmer all the way out, then pulling it back in about 1".

I think the trick for tuning it is to get the kite so that it flies very well at full power downwind, then gradually increase the amount the Diablo engages until you find the sweet spot.

As highly engineered as Elfs are, they definitely need an experienced hand when setting them up for the race course, and their speed system is not the easiest to adjust compared to Flysurfer or the new Ozone system. I still don't feel like I ever really got mine dialed in correctly, but once I'm done with my post-injury rehab intend to spend a lot of time messing around tuning it.

Thanks Mossy, always appreciate your high quality reply.
Ariel

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

You can tune the bridle as well as your bar so that when you let out your trimmer all the way and pull the bar against the chicken loop it increases the final ratios of the bridle to greatly increase camber for more downwind angle. When I first flew my 15m, my flying lines were all equal length with the trimmer at full power and my bar against my chicken loop. In this setup, the Diablo line did not even engage. I shortened my rear lines a tiny amount so that being fully sheeted at full power induced some oversheeting (backstall) which helped me control the kite at the edge of the wind window, and also helped the Diablo line engage. Now that my bar has this oversheeting tuned into it, my "full power" downwind setting is letting the trimmer all the way out, then pulling it back in about 1".

I think the trick for tuning it is to get the kite so that it flies very well at full power downwind, then gradually increase the amount the Diablo engages until you find the sweet spot.

As highly engineered as Elfs are, they definitely need an experienced hand when setting them up for the race course, and their speed system is not the easiest to adjust compared to Flysurfer or the new Ozone system. I still don't feel like I ever really got mine dialed in correctly, but once I'm done with my post-injury rehab intend to spend a lot of time messing around tuning it.

Thanks Mossy, always appreciate your high quality reply.
Ariel

Mossy,
1. let out trimmer all the way, means lengthen the front lines right?
2. pull the bar against chicken loop, means sheeting in right?
These add up to give more camber.
Ariel

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

Mossy,
1. let out trimmer all the way, means lengthen the front lines right?
2. pull the bar against chicken loop, means sheeting in right?
These add up to give more camber.
Ariel

1. Yes
2. Yes

The way the speed systems and bridles work, they add camber to the kite in the final few inches of the range of bar movement because that diablo line and pulley creates a higher ratio once it engages.

A couple of friends of mine all got Elf Joker 7's when I did, the most common complaints I was hearing were the kite balling up into a collapsed mess going fast downwind. I think what happens is that the diablo line is a bit too tight or the rear lines a bit too short, and tuning that balance specific to each kite/bar combo is a bit more experimentation and tinkering than many were willing to do, especially in a regatta where you want to be able to get your "main bar" dialed in and then just switch kites accordingly. For someone that keeps a kite-specific bar connected all the time ($$$), this is a LOT easier because you can just tune that setup and leave it connected.

I tune my bar so that the rear lines are about 1/2" shorter than my front so it has some natural backstall at full power/sheeted in for controlling the kite in the air and in the water. From there, you want to get your normal speed system tune right according to Elf's numbers, then you want to check the Diablo system. With the bar sheeted out and through most of the power stroke at full power on the trimmer, it should not engage. In the final few inches of bar throw near the chicken loop, it should begin engaging. You can move the knots up and down to make it engage earlier or later.

If it engages too early, then you'll have this region of your bar throw that will forever be a TON of oversheeting and camber, which can make the kite unstable and why I think many improperly tuned Elfs have a habit of just collapsing out of nowhere. If it engages too late, then you're not getting the advantage of it and arguably not flying the kite as intended by the designer, leaving some portion of the performance envelope on the table.

My kite came from the factory with the Diablo line very much NOT engaged and it flew great, until I realized that it never actually picked up any tension when the bar was sheeted at full power. I adjusted it to BARELY BARELY engage and felt like I got the kite to pull back in the wind window further which for going downwind to the mark was an advantage. I never really got to tinker with it beyond there when I got injured, so there's lots left to test.

It's a labor of love, but when Elfs are flying properly they really are fast upwind, but unfortunately the Joker7 is no longer a good move for the racecourse so I'm probably going to be all on Flysurfer the next time I refresh my kites.

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:52 pm

by volume311

Thanks for the info. I purchased a used J7 15m last year that was tuned very well, not that I would be able to tell the difference, but I haven’t had any issues you’ve described. But I’m not in the foiling game, just use it to rip around on a TT in lighter breeze.

Is there a good diagram/tuning chart explaining the setup of these kites? The speed system/Diablo line and how it all interacts is a mystery to me at this point.

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

Thanks for the info. I purchased a used J7 15m last year that was tuned very well, not that I would be able to tell the difference, but I haven’t had any issues you’ve described. But I’m not in the foiling game, just use it to rip around on a TT in lighter breeze.

Is there a good diagram/tuning chart explaining the setup of these kites? The speed system/Diablo line and how it all interacts is a mystery to me at this point.

I've heard some people get good results emailing Elf directly asking for the tuning numbers for their kite, you might also message them on Facebook. I did a group buy through Vadim at Greenhat Kiteboarding when I bought it and he was working directly with the designer/owner of the company as they both speak Russian. You might be able to contact him through his website and ask for tuning numbers: https://greenhatkiteboarding.com/

Re: Diable line of Elf Joker7

Thanks for the info. I purchased a used J7 15m last year that was tuned very well, not that I would be able to tell the difference, but I haven’t had any issues you’ve described. But I’m not in the foiling game, just use it to rip around on a TT in lighter breeze.

Is there a good diagram/tuning chart explaining the setup of these kites? The speed system/Diablo line and how it all interacts is a mystery to me at this point.

I've heard some people get good results emailing Elf directly asking for the tuning numbers for their kite, you might also message them on Facebook. I did a group buy through Vadim at Greenhat Kiteboarding when I bought it and he was working directly with the designer/owner of the company as they both speak Russian. You might be able to contact him through his website and ask for tuning numbers: https://greenhatkiteboarding.com/

Thanks Mate, I also brought the jokers from Vadim, they did a nice job.