But Churchill ended that stirring call with a pretty big qualifier: “except to convictions of honor and good sense.” On that score, there are good reasons to doubt the wisdom of soldiering on in Afghanistan. One is that America’s track record in imposing peace and order is far from perfect. Yes, Washington succeeded in Germany and Japan (after wars that left both countries in ruins). But the list of countries where American occupations failed to produce the political stability that Washington was certain it could achieve is longer: Haiti, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Vietnam, and Somalia.

The more important issue, though, is the one that Richard Haass raised two years ago: even if the objectives of the stay-the-course camp could be achieved, they aren’t worth it in terms of blood and treasure. Al Qaeda long ago ceased to be a factor in Afghanistan, and as U.S. counter-terrorist operations in places like Yemen, Somalia, and the Sahara implicitly attest, al Qaeda has plenty of “ungoverned spaces” from which to operate regardless of how things go in the Hindu Kush. Talk of the dire geopolitical consequences of a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan is similarly overblown. The United States benefited from exiting Vietnam despite the ugliness of its departure. The same would be true in Afghanistan. So here’s to hoping that as the White House publicly channels Churchill’s admonition to “never give in,” that it is privately heeding his advice “to exercise good sense” and speed up the U.S. exit from Afghanistan.

The views expressed in this article are solely those of James M. Lindsay.

soundoff(29 Responses)

George Patton

Anyone with an IQ of no more than 18 would know the answer to the question above. Only a stupid, crazy fool or a right-wing extremist in Washington would think that we belong in Afghanistan. In fact, we're already ten years too late in getting out of there!!!

Thank you, George. How right you are! I'm getting aggravated all with these idiots who still believe that we are doing good over there and so-called "helping the people"!. We're there to exploit that country's natural resources and nothing else!

Thousands of years make no difference to your culture. Lie,Lie, and keep lying.
Most Muslims are familiar with the principles of Islam that will justify lying in situations where they sense the need to do so. Among these are:

War is deception.
The necessities justify the forbidden.
If faced by two evils, choose the lesser of the two.
These principles are derived from passages found in the Quran and the Hadith.

In the Quran, Allah, allegedly, says:
" Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89

"Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225

"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106

The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, "If they turned, you turn." (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.)

These and similar passages from the Quran clearly reveal that Muslims' unintentional lies are forgivable and that even their intentional lies can be absolved by performing extra duties. It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims can lie while under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts.

In the Hadith, Mohammed, emphasizes the same concept.

March 19, 2012 at 8:47 pm |

Patrick

Lying is an art to you. Here is a story about your culture:
It was rumored that Shaaban was gathering an army to wage war on Mohammed. Mohammed retaliated by ordering Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. Again, the would-be killer asked the prophet's permission to lie. Mohammed agreed and then ordered the killer to lie by stating that he was a member of the Khazaa clan. When Shaaban saw Abdullah coming, he asked him, "From what tribe are you?" Abdullah answered, "From Khazaa." He then added, "I have heard that you are gathering an army to fight Mohammed and I came to join you." Abdullah started walking with Shaaban telling him how Mohammed came to them with the heretical teachings of Islam, and complained how Mohammed badmouthed the Arab patriarchs and ruined the Arab's hopes. They continued in conversation until they arrived at Shaaban's tent. Shaaban's companions departed and Shaaban invited Abdullah to come inside and rest. Abdullah sat there until the atmosphere was quiet and he sensed that everyone was asleep. Abdullah severed Shaaban's head and carried it to Mohammed as a trophy. When Mohammed sighted Abdullah, he jubilantly shouted, "Your face has been triumphant (Aflaha al- wajho)." Abdullah returned the greeting by saying, "It is your face, Apostle of Allah, who has been triumphant. (Aflaha wajhoka, ye rasoul Allah)."

The generals mentioned believe that a drawing out the withdrawal a little longer will keep Karsai in power rather than ceding power to the Taliban. If they are right, it may be worth it. The problem is that we have put the soldiers through too many sequential tours. The suicide rates are going up, and mistakes and incidents like this one will only increase in frequency if we don't give our military a well deserved break. I like to think that our generals know what they are doing and that the many sacrifices that our military men and women have made will help the United States, Afghanistan, and the world, but we are paying a high price right now, and it is only getting higher.

The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya
Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.

In the sphere of international politics, the question is: Can Muslim countries be trusted to keep their end of the agreements that they sign with non-Muslim nations? It is a known Islamic practice, that when Muslims are weak they can agree with most anything. Once they become strong, then they negate what they formerly vowed.

The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West. Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts. They carefully try to avoid, obscure, and omit mentioning any of the negative Islamic texts and teachings.

You are completely twisting their doctrine. The idea is that if some people are trying to kill off all the Muslims in a country, Muslims are allowed to pretend to be another faith to avoid being killed because their God values their lives and understands that they are still faithful. I think that is entirely reasonable.

March 19, 2012 at 9:57 pm |

Patrick

Ajax, are you the cleaner?

March 19, 2012 at 11:03 pm |

j. von hettlingen

There's a huge difference between barracks life in Afghanistan and the one in Vietnam. The marines and GI who fought in the Vietnam War could visit a bar or a brothel in Saigon and other cities in Asia. Their modern peers in Afghanistan have nowhere to go, in a region of Muslim culture. Yes, life in the Hindu Kush could drive somebody crazy.

An example of Islamic deception is that Muslim activists always quote the passages of the Quran from the early part of Mohammed's ministry while living in Mecca. These texts are peaceful and exemplify tolerance towards those that are not followers of Islam. All the while, they are fully aware that most of these passages were abrogated (cancelled and replaced) by passages that came after he migrated to Medina. The replacement verses reflect prejudice, intolerance, and endorse violence upon unbelievers

Hi boys. How come I find you guys in all those sites propagating lies? You are not American or white, you are Arabs trying to fool us into believing your rhetoric.
If we do not fight the war in AfghanistanIranIraq, the war will come to us.
Even you feeble minded moslems should understand that. The problem is that you will lie, cheat, put up your children, wives, mothers as martyrs to accomplish the goal of converting all or killing all.
2.216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

2.244. Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.

2.257. Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

3:110. Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

3:118. O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.

3.141. Allah's object also is to purge those that are true in Faith and to deprive of blessing Those that resist Faith.

Come on, Patrick. Anyone with half a brain knows that if we don't fight that idiotic war in Afghanistan, it will in no way "come to us"! We invaded that country and the Afghans are just simply defending their homeland and they want it back! That's why they support the Taliban. Moreover, WW1 never "came to us" either, we went to it largely because of Wall Street!!!

Silly little muslim boy, the no. 1 tactic of trying to ridicule the civilized world into submission is not working.
The following are some quotes from your great profiteer Muhammed:
3.151 Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

3.157. And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

3.158. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.

3.169. Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

4.3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

March 19, 2012 at 8:33 pm |

Patrick

Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28. In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell."

However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good."

In June of 1967 Egypt was defeated by Israel and lost the Sinai Peninsula during the "Six Day War." Subsequently, Egypt's primary focus became to regain the lost territory. President Nasser, and then, President Sadat, adopted the motto: "No voice should rise over the voice of The Battle." The soldiers that had been drafted in 1967 were kept in service and remained on high alert in the expectation that at any day "the battle" would ensue. Nonetheless, years pasted and Egypt's people became disgruntle with the political hype and the "no peace, and no war" status. In 1972 Sadat proclaimed with finality that it was to be the year for the long anticipated battle. Throughout the year he swore, "I swear to you by my honor that this year will not pass by, before we launch The Battle." People believed him because he was staking his reputation and honor through an oath. To everyone's amazement the year passed without a single shot being fired. As a result many, inside and outside Egypt, began to dismiss him as a "hot air bluff". This opinion was confirmed in the following year of 1973. He made no further mention of his oath about the battle. Many of the draftees were released and numerous officers were given vacation furloughs. Then without warning, in October of 1973, he launched the attack and what was known as the Yom Kippur war began.

As a military commander, Sadat was expected to use the element of surprise to trick the enemy. As a devout Muslim, Sadat was not the least bit concerned about his un-kept oath. He understood that the history and teachings of Islam would exempt him from spiritual accountability if he used lies as a foundation for a strategic military maneuver.

NO..............STAY SO YOU CAN WATCH IRAN FROM BOTH SIDE OF IRAQ AND AFGANISTAN AND THE GULF WILL BE THGIRD AND TO BE READY WHEN USA ATTACK IRAN................IRAN WILL BE ATTACKED IN JUNE 28 BY ISRAEL....AND AROUND NOVEMBER 28 BY USA IF ISRAEL WANT DO IT

YES LEAVE THEM AND GO TO SYRIA FINISH THE JOB IN SYRIA
French police have been in an armed standoff outside an apartment building in Toulouse, where a man suspected of gunning down an adult and three children at a Jewish school on Monday is holed up. The twenty-four-year-old French national, identified by a police official as Mohammed Merah, is also suspected of killing three French soldiers in two separate incidents last week. In negotiations with police, the suspect claimed to have ties with al-Qaeda (WSJ) and said the murders at the Jewish school were to "avenge the death of Palestinian children," according to French Interior Minister Claude Guéant. At least two policemen were injured by gunshots fired by the suspect from inside his apartment early this morning. Police indicated the suspect could

IRAN IS AND WILL MAKE THE NUC WEAPONS MARK MY WORDS, IF WE DONT STOP THEM NOW IT WILL BE A NIGHTMARE TO THE WORLD AND PEACE.
IRAN TOOK MANY SCIENTISTS FROM PAKISTAN, IRAQ AND SYRIA AND THEY WORKING AROUND THE CLOCK IN QUM AND OTHER AREAS.
IRAN IS A TERRORISTS REGIEME FUNDING AND HELPING THE TERRORISTS HIZBOALLAH AND THE KILLERS THUGS SHIIA IN SYRIA BASHAR AL KALB.
IRAN IS KILLING PEOPLE IN IRAQ BY HELPING NORI AL MALEKI AND OTHER SHIIA SPIES LIKE AHMAD AL JALABO AND MOQTADA AL QATHER, MAHDI ARMY ,ASHAB AL HAQ, HIZBOALLAH, BADER ARMY AND OTHER TERRORISTS.
IRAN DID TORTURED 400 USA BACK IN 1984 AND KILLED USA MAN ON A WHEEL CHAIR.
IRAN RA PE AND KILL CIVILIANS AND PRISONERS. AND THEY ARE EXPORTING TERROR , GIVING ARM AND WEAPONS TO TERRORISTS IN AFRICA AND SHIIA THUGS IN SYRIA ,LEBANON AND HAMAS
IRAN IS PURE EVIL AND MULLA THUGS USA AND THE FREE WORLD MUST GET RED OF THOSE EVIL MULLAS.

BASHAR AL ASAD AND HIS WIFE, SENDING MILLIONS OD USA DOLLARS TO LEBANON IN A STASH IN A DIFFRENT ANAME ACCOUNT, ALSO SENDING WEAPONS FROM SYRIA TO HIZBOALLAH 10 FULL TRUCKS EVERY DAY CROSSING TO HIZBOALLAH TO PREPARE FOR A RUN AND TO BE USED FOR EMERGENCY , those love birds killers and thug are preparing to empty syria from cash and weapons and move them to lebanon in the hands of the terrorists hizboallah i saw that my self, we have people on the ground at the syria / lebanon boarder sending these informations , some of the trucks also contain chemical weapoins to hizboallah...please inform the media now before it is too late

THE ONLY WAY FOR PEACE IN THIS EARTH IS TO DESTROY THE EVIL REPUBLIC OF IRAN, THOSE SHIIA CULT REGIEME, KILLER, THUGS, ARE DEVIL BREED. THEY MARRY THERE RELATIVES, COUSINS AND SISTERS UNDER MOTAA ORDER, AND MAKE TAQEYA ( LIES ) ALLOWED UNDER THERE FAITH , THIER SPIRTUAL LEADER IS LUCIFER THEY CALL HIM ALMAHDI WHO IS HIDING UNDER GROUND WITH THE EVIL GAG AND MAGOG. AND HE WILL APPEAR TO DESTROY ISRAEL THATS WHAT THEY BEEN STUDY IN THE SHIIA MADRASA AND TEACH THERE EVIL KIDS.

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