Roses and Rosters

Spent the morning at the press conference to unveil our float for the Rose Parade and got a nice suprise on the drive over, as Nomar called to say he will be joining the former and current Dodgers riding on the float. You can read about all those who will be in attendance in this story and the mockup of the float is on the front of dodgers.com. It’s a great way to kick off the 50th anniversary celebration and as I’ve mentioned before, there will be plenty of other exciting news coming in the weeks ahead.

On a baseball note, this afternoon we added seven players to the 40-man roster. They were:

Also, Mike Megrew was outrighted and we still have two spots left on the 40-man roster.

And finally, right now at the entrance to Dodger Stadium, Tommy Lasorda, Bobby Castillo and "Sweet" Lou Johnson are joining by local elected officials in handing out Thanksgiving turkeys to about 600 preselected families in need.

That’s about all the news for today and I don’t expect much more over the holiday, so this could be the last post for a few days.

On behalf of everyone at the Dodger organization, I hope you all have a safe holiday with your family and friends and look forward to catching up again next week.

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Follow-on to previous thread:

pierreseastmeetswest, I have the same fear you do. Colletti is a loose canon and is likely to pull the trigger even though it makes no sense. To me, although LaRoche has still to prove himself at the major league level, he has demonstrated tremendous ability and may be an equal to Cabrera is a few years. If we obtain Cabrera, obviously there’s no place for LaRoche and he should go in that trade so he has a chance to prove himself. He and a couple lesser prospects is Value for Value to me. But to give up Kemp for Cabrera doesn’t make any sense. Kemp will probably equal Cabrera in HRs if he plays everyday, so the Dodgers haven’t gained anything by such a trade. LaRoche could hit 20 HRs if he played everyday, which would be a net gain if Pierre was removed from the outfield. If Pierre can’t be traded, then he should either become the fourth outfielder/pinch runner or he should be released. He should not be an everyday player like he was last season.

Tell you what – a team with a big payroll and a less than savvy GM is going nowhere. Stare at that fourth place spot for a long, long time, Dodgers, if the best Colletti can do is trade away Kemp, LaRoche AND Kershaw for Cabrera.

Smell the rosed! Kemp isn’t just a slugger. He’s a speedster, too. Cabrera is first base bound with his love of food and his already subpar leather at third. Then what to do? Trade Loney away?

And why the rush to upgrade 3B anyway? Didn’t the Dodgers sign that wonderful man, Nomar Garciaparra, to TWO years to play third? What happened to that? Oh wait – the Dodgers misjudged on that one, didn’t they?

Come on, Dodgers, don’t be dumber than you need to be. Cabrera makes NO sense for the Dodgers. You can grab him in his free agent year if you still want him.

Gosh, hot stove season kills me. I can only hope Colletti is smarter than some of his past deals made him look to be. And that’s a darn slim hope! I’ll cut him more slack if he survives this rumour.

Just to sum it up:

DON’T. TRADE. KEMP. FOR. CABRERA. Don’t trade cheap talent with high upside and tools in the box for a one-tool player with a big salary. The Marlins are giving away a single year of Cabrera ( for they will not sign him to a multi-year, they can’t afford that ) for a guy with everything going for him, and what, five years before free agency? AND some other great prospects? Of course they are – that’s a great deal for them and a unbelievably dumb deal for the Dodgers. Is it that hard to comprehend how that can’t be a good thing?

*sigh*

If this rumour becomes a trade that goes down I’ll be hard-pressed to summon the desire to spend a penny on this team in 2008.

actually griffon, nomar was signed to play 1st for two years, where he promtly turned in 3 of the worst months by a first baseman in franchise history, and then was moved to third, where he turned in a slightly less horrible 3 months with subpar defense. so, yeah.

Reposted from end of last thread because I should have put it here in the first place:

I don’t understand why everybody seems so insistent that we need to pick up a power hitter

These very conservative estimates indicate that simply by playing our best players every day, we will have decent power in 2008:

Furcal — 12

Martin — 20

Kemp — 25

Loney — 20

Kent — 20

Ethier — 15

LaRoche — 15

LF (as long as it’s not Pierre) — 12+

Bench — 15

Total — 154

Even a moderate amount of optimism brings it up to 170 (add 5 to Loney, 5 to LaRoche, and 4 more spread around).

Even at 154 HR, we’re in the middle of the pack among NL teams, and that’s without playing in a bandbox or a launching pad.

Yes, adding a FREE AGENT like Jones or Hunter would add 15-30 HRs and should be done. That would bring us to about 175+ HRs, a very respectable number.

On the other hand trading away Matt Kemp for Miguel Cabrera would only result in a net gain of about 5 to 8 homeruns if looked at in isolation, and assuming that Cabrera continues his historical production while Kemp hits about 25 HR. If you consider that Kemp leaving would virtually ensure the continuation of Juan Pierre in the lineup, the net result of Dodger homeruns is a negative.

“The Dodgers, according to a source, are wary of giving up both Kemp, a potential 30-homer, 30-stolen base man, and Kershaw, a potential No. 1 or 2 starter, for Cabrera, whose weight and lifestyle concerns many clubs.”

In my opinion Colletti cost the Dodgers the play-offs last season with his panic free agent signings. If he didn’t sign Nomar, Gonzo, and Pierre, we would have had Loney at 1B all season and Kemp and Ethier in the outfield all season. The numbers they would have put up would have eclipsed what was accomplished with the free agent signings. Loney would have probably been the Rookie of the Year as a side benefit, too. Instead, Colletti created an atmosphere for attitude problems by those signings. I feel sorry for Loney, Kemp, and Ethier. They all deserved better treatment than they received from Dodger management. Rather than build up the confidence of these young players, Colletti and Little practically destroyed it.

Now Dodger fans are being subjected to the torture of an off-season when rumors fly rampantly. Although these rumors sound ridiculous, Dodger management has a history of overpaying in trades and signings and trading away high potential players. Even Lasorda made a stupid trade of Konerko. He would have been the power hitter the Dodgers needed in these lean years, but he was sacrificed for an immediate “need”. Now we see a willingness to do the same kind of thing again. Doesn’t anyone ever learn from the past? Why doesn’t Colletti speak up like the Yankees do and say no way are we going to trade these players?? The cream of the crop should be untouchable and Colletti should let that be known. I’m tired of imports that are supposed to save the day. Remember how Drew was brought in and a big deal was made about how he was going to be the centerpiece of the team? We all know how that turned out, although he wasn’t signed on Colletti’s watch. But Colletti’s successes are few and far between, so he should wise up and stop entertaining foolish offers for prized talent.

You & your family have a great holiday Josh. Enjoy. One thing I think about when I read over this blog. I hope people on this team that have the power to do something read it. It’s no secret all you have to do is sign on. I never saw anyone post anything,(oh I forgot only your e-mail shows) but as long as they read it. What better way can they read what the fans think. Let’s go Gombar Colletti, think hard before you act. I don’t have anything against left handed people, my daughters left handed. But left handed fielders always seem waisted. They can only play 3 different positions. pitch, 1B and the outfield. Oh I know their have been some odd balls, but not many. I wonder if Pierre had his glove on his left hand what kind of a base stealing shortstop he would have made, why he could have been our Jose Reyes. We’ll never know what kind of a right arm he’d have.

actually griffon, nomar was signed to play 1st for two years, where he promtly turned in 3 of the worst months by a first baseman in franchise history, and then was moved to third, where he turned in a slightly less horrible 3 months with subpar defense. so, yeah.

November 20, 2007 05:43 PM

I’m not a NOMAR apologist, but lets at least report the right facts … Nomar in 2006 had 4 errors in 118 games at 1B in in 2007 had 4 errors in 68 games at first base. I hardly think that qualifies as “turned in 3 of the worst months by a first baseman in franchise history.”

Congratulations Jungar! I had just seen your post on Dodger Thoughts too.

I know we’re all scared that there will be a bad move made over the winter, but I think young Benjamin picked a great time to come into the world. When he is 6 years old, Russell Martin, James Loney, Matt Kemp, Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Broxton, and Andy LaRoche will all be 29 or 30–in the prime of their career, and I believe still Dodgers. These will be Benjamin’s heroes like Steve Garvey, Ron Cey and the like were for his father’s generation.

I suppose Ron Cey, who had 13 NL years of 75 or more games under his belt at 3B, was one of those “turned in 3 of the worst months by a first baseman in franchise history” at some point in his career. He had 220 errors in those 13 seasons or 16.92 errors per season!

I think the Marlins need to move Cabrera more than we should want to add Cabrera. Therefore we shouldn’t even consider adding Kemp or Kershaw to a transaction that will already require LaRoche. I think a package of LaRoche, McDonald, Repko, & Meloan is very fair. If that doesn’t get it done, walk away Ned…and give LaRoche a chance to be our 3B.

Ned, you can’t trade Kemp or our top pitching prospect for a third baseman. You can trow in some less talented players/prospects like Meloan, McDonald, or Repko but not Kemp and Kershaw. The only way you can give up those guys is for a top tier starter and Jones is brought in.

The Dodgers are not close to a deal for Miguel Cabrera, because so far, the cost, in young players, is prohibitive for L.A. And as good as Cabera is, there are questions about his extraordinary weight gain and whether he will continue to be a clone of Manny Ramirez, or if he’ll become another Kevin Mitchell, whose physical conditioning eventually wrecked what could have been an exceptional career. “It’s not as if the Dodgers are one phone call away on this thing,” said an NL source. “There is a lot of work to be done for them to get involved. They are pretty far apart, right now.”

The growing expectation around the game is that the Angels will land Cabrera.

BTW, Kevin Mitchell is not a good failure comparison, but it is hard to find a good one. Who else has/had an HOF career trajectory at age 24 at an infield, non-1B, position but is considered a reasonable possibility to eat himself into DH?

The Chicago-Sun Times is reporting that 5 teams have made offers to Torri Hunter. The White Sox and Dodgers both have offered up 5 year deals. They said that the Dodgers would pursue Hunter aggressively if the Dodgers believe they cannot land Miguel Cabrera. The Rangers have offered 6 years.

Ryan (PA): Hey Jim, what are your thoughts on the rumor that the Dodger might trade Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw for Miggy? Miggy is a huge bat but dont you think that is to much to give up? Especially with Kershaw?

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:13 PM ET ) I wouldn’t do that from LA’s standpoint and I have a hard time seeing Frank McCourt signing off on giving up that much young talent and paying Cabrera. Play LaRoche at third base, don’t dare let go of Kershaw and spend the Miggy money elsewhere.

Good comment by Callis. I am still in favor of passing on Cabrera and playing LaRoche. But if we do trade for Cabrera, the trade should include no more than LaRoche, Pierre, and one pitching prospect other than Kershaw. LaRoche has the potential to be a great replacement for Cabrera for the Marlins at a fraction of the cost. That should be a major consideration. Cabrera may produce better numbers for a couple of years, but the cost of those numbers is many, many times the cost of LaRoche’s production. And it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see LaRoche meet or exceed Cabrera’s numbers in a few years. When the Marlins traded Beckett to the Red Sox they insisted that the Sox take Lowell in the trade. That turned out great for the Sox, but nobody expected it that way. Colletti should play the same game. If you want to make this trade, you must take Pierre along with LaRoche and lesser prospects. Pierre played well for the Marlins and probably has a fan base there. Colletti should play hard ball with them. And definitely no Kemp and no Kershaw!

good to hear that we’ve got an offer out there for Hunter. Reports say that he’ll be making a decision before the winter meetings. One step closer to a Pierre-free outfield. Is Ned now admitting a major mistake?

a shot at C.F. I know, what you’re thinking. BUT, Take a look @ the numbers, he put up for S.D. in that short time. Sure, there’s HUGE baggage, but, Torre can probably handle that. Even though, he’s a jerk, he sure can put up those numbers. Both on Off. & Def. think about it, before you answer. Even if he’s injury prone, Repko ,can fill in ???? I like it, don’t you……

If Ned really wants Pierre gone then he can make it happen. Do I think it will happen? I doubt it. My gut feeling has Jones/Hunter/Rowand signing on. Kemp will then be traded and Torre will move Pierre to left like he did Damon. I think moving Pierre to left is a stupid idea but that’s what my gut feeling is.

Scott Podsednik was designated for assignment by the White Sox yesterday. Starting with his rookie year, 2003 (at age just over 27 on Opening Day), he put up the following OPS+:

116, 75, 86, 75, 73.

Career BA, OBP, Slg, OPS+

.272 .338 .377 86

Last season he made just under $3M, a a salary negotiated as an arbitration-eligible player. He was 31 for last Opening Day. He was such a bad CF, apparently, that the White Sox have played him in LF, despite having a huge hole in CF the last two seasons.

Juan Pierre was 26 1/2 for Opening Day 2004, for what would be his career-best season. His OPS+ for 2004 – present:

107, 84, 82, 75

Career BA, OBP, Slg, OPS+

.301 .348 .374 84

JP will be 30 1/2 on Opening Day 2008. There are press reports that the Dodgers are considering moving him to LF because of his weak arm. Otherwise, I consider him an average CF. (He looked bad at times early in the season, but certainly looked better later except for the arm.)

(I claim, without proof, that Pierre’s career BA and OBP are higher because he was able to exploit his main asset, speed, at it’s peak, when he was young, since he started playing regular at just under 23, in mid-2000.)

I ask you, is there 5 years and $44M difference between these players?

———————

Note that the White Sox still need a CF badly it is a fact that they are courting Torii Hunter, but I have not seen any reporting that they have/had any interest in their “old friend” Aaron Rowand, the CF on their WS winner. Hmmmm, I wonder why?

GMs and managers always like to say that salary does NOT equate to playing time. If that’s true, then let’s go to Spring Training and see if Pierre can actually beat out the likes of Kemp, Ethier, Repko, Young and whoever else is on the roster come March. Consecutive playing streak and $$$ be damned, the Dodgers should play the best. Period.

So exactly who did you trade to get Cabrera and Bedard? LaRoche, Kershaw, and what for Cabrera? Ethier and what centerpiece for Bedard? (And, please, neither of those teams is taking Pierre and his contract off of Colletti’s hands.)

old fogey: The White Sox tried to get Rowland back from the Phillies from almost the day they traded him. If Kenny Williams the White Sox GM who this year went from 90 wins to 72 prefers Hunter to Rowland that doesn’t justify a “Hmmm” (In my opinion Hmmm’s should be avoided n posts)
For the record none of the prominent free agent CF’s are worth the money and years they are demanding. We should play Kemp in CF and try to trade Pierre to the White Sox before they sign a free agent CF.

I agree that we should play Kemp in CF. That is what other teams want him for, so why isn’t that good enough for us? That leaves Ethier for RF and Young for LF. That would be a great outfield for hardly any bucks.

On the subject of Cabrera, Colletti should be in the driver’s seat there. The Marlins are looking to dump Cabrera’s large salary and get a good replacement for him. Where else are they going to get someone of LaRoche’s potential? He should post good numbers playing everyday there, and the cost savings over Cabrera is huge. They should coming begging at Colletti’s door instead of visa versa. I hope Colletti plays it tough. He’s got the cards to do so without giving in to the outrageous demands for Kemp and Kershaw. Give them LaRoche, Pierre, and Meloan. If they don’t like that, let them keep Cabrera!

We are Florida based and have seen lots and lots of Cabrera. We have seen the 24 year old eating his way out of everyday third base play. The pudgy player looks like a cross between Olmedo Saenz and Venezuela’s loudmouth dictator-in-the-making Hugo Chavez.

If the Dodgers don’t succumb to the temptation to give away their young players just now — after investing so much in their nurturing and development — so much for the better.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones not made.

As longtime big league scout Tim Zimmer (son of Don) often told us ‘when you get somebody else’s player, what you’re getting is somebody else’s problem’.

If Jeff Kent didn’t like Matt Kemp’s cavalier attitude, he surely wouldn’t like Cabrera’s penchant for the night life.

Watching the Marlin lots, and as our enthusiasm for Miggy Cabrera wane as his waistline grew, our eyes often turned more and more to 2B and former Rule 5 pickup Dan Uggla…

Matt Kemp’s legs are 8 or more years younger than any of the name available expensive center field options. In baseball 8 years younger is a lifetime. Sign one of the older options to big money and what the Dodgers will wind up with down the road is a past-his-prime player not worth his money.

Let Kemp man center everyday in the regular lineup. Let Rowand and Hunter go elsewhere. And we will wager Kemp matches them homer for homer.

Why do so many other teams want a young and cheap Andy LaRoche to play third for them? The answer is scouts see the talent ready to erupt. Joe Torre and the Dodgers would and could do well to stand still and do nothing.

Tori Hunter is an Angel. What that means for them I couldn’t care less…but I DO hope this helps them get Cabrera so we don’t! I’d still be OK with Andrew Jones in center and Pierre in Chicago or Vegas…

Wow, Angels will have two outfielders worth $130 million combined and career OPS’ of .753 and .793. Matthews Jr. and Hunter. Not too good there Halos…Though that outfield defense undoubtedly is pretty solid.

In comparison (granted not a full season of work) Kemp’s last season was .894, Ethier was .802 and Loney’s was .919.

Aaron Rowand’s career OPS is .805 with a breakout .889 OPS last season. Andrew Jones’ career OPS is .839 with a not so solid OPS of .724 last season.

It just may be that nobody will be in real hot pursuit of Cabrera now that the Angels have committed a huge contract to Tori. After all, the Marlins’ are asking for the moon. We should just sit tight and expect that Cabrera could still be available by the trade deadline in ’08. That would give us the chance to try Nomar at third, which I think Torre will want to do, and to give LaRoche a good look there as well. Then, if neither seems to pan out, we can get more aggresive about acquiring Cabrera or someone else for 3rd base in the longer run.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY*******Messagebearer: I’m rather suprised that you wouldn’t mind Torre giving NOMAR another chance at 3rd. Like I’ve been saying, getting rid of PIERRE, I think, is Colletti hardest job. That’s if he has that in mind. I just would like to see him out of the outfield. If we have to part with any of our regulars to get Cabrera, I see LaRoche, being the guy since 3B is his present spot. Like you, I’d wish Ned, gives both these endeavors a break and see what our homegrown kids have learned over the entire course of last season. I think what we are looking for we already got, ^^and that goes for the pitching too^^. BUT it goes without saying, We are only like people in a movie theather watching things take place on the screen.

After reading back my last post MESSAGEBEARER, Buy the other endevour, I meant the search for a FA outfielder. Although everybody has been giving me plenty of FLACK, not only on this blog, I feel we may have a solution in the outfield, RIGHT NOW by simply( maybe not that simple) letting LONEY & PIERRE change positions. Contrary to many, I feel Pierre’s arm is capable of reaching as far as third base from first. Now let me go back to watching this movie.

why do the Angels always want to get the same players that the Dodgers always want to get? Dodgers wanted Vladamir Guerrero the Angels got him the dodgers wanted A-Rod the angels wanted A-Rod.. The Dodgers want Cabrera Then the Angels want Cabrera..Then The dodgers wanted a Center fielder therefor the Angels wanted one also..

even tho torii hunter is one of my favorite players and im sad to see him not with the real LA team at least now we dont have to worry about getting cabrera.

the angels now have too much pitching and too many outfielders. so now a couple of those players and howie kendrick will go to the marlins for cabrera. so id say our prospects are safe..for now..unless ned goes for an above avg. pitcher in erick bedard, which would be a terrible deal!

FLAK, OH that’s how you spell it, I was looking in my dictionary and I didn’t get past that antiaircraft thing, EWK216. The Angels might have more than enough. I wouldn’t be suprised if they pull out something and make the Marlins happy. That is if they still need Cabrera. Hey EDUARDOSOTO. Ain’t you glad the Angels didn’t get A-Rod? I hate the Giants since ’51 and I my prayers were answered there. AGAIN Happy Thanksgiving.

“Hunter said there had been no contract discussions with the Los Angeles Dodgers, who were also rumored to be in the hunt for his services.”

Thank you, Ned! You are to be commended for your restraint!! Please continue in the same manner. Maybe we have been too hard on you this off-season in believing where there is smoke there is fire in all the various rumors. Maybe you have indeed learned from past mistakes and do place proper value on the great young players that you have. I hope so!!

Although Kemp is not the defensive player that Hunter is (although he did make some highlight catches and can certainly improve), I’ll bet he will meet Hunter’s bat numbers. Now we can clearly see why other teams want Kemp. A savings of around $80 million over the next 5 years while Kemp’s numbers will be getting better and Hunter’s abilities will decline with age.

Please keep Kemp and play him in CF. Players with his potential don’t come along very often, and the fans deserve a home-grown superstar. Whatever deficiencies that he has can be worked on and improved. Our veterans should have come along side him last season and helped him develop, but they were too concerned with their own selfish desires instead of putting the team first.

For the Dodgers to have a run of CONTINUED championships they must keep the kids together and play the kids…just like in the 70s and early 80s. Loney, Martin, Kemp, Billingsley, et al, have tasted success playing together in the minors and have gone on record as saying they’d like to remain together and bring that success to the major leagues. The Angels, by contrast, since winning with homegrown talent in 2002, have since gone the high-priced free agent route– winning divisions but losing playoffs. A conglomoration of mercenaries rarely wins it all. So please, Mr. Colletti, let us enjoy the fruits of the farm, the likes of which we’ve been patiently waiting for these past two decades or more.

lets just get rowand. ned stop sitting on your hands. put kemp in right,move juan for 5 play ethier full time in left. thats an outfield. quit filling up on the turkey and go get rowand. forget about cabrera.

The posts this year certainly have changed. Last fall it seemed to be, “They are only prospects.” We now know what prospects become and want to keep more. I expect we can’t keep them all as we can’t use all of them and it is not fair to keep them in the minors if they are MLB level ready. So, the task is to be prudent. The guys added to the 40 man roster are perhaps bargaining chips indicating they are more MLB ready or closer to MLB ready than some others. It seemed that MacDonald was more ready than Kershaw with an exceptional season after his surgery and a betterK/BB than Kershaw. It was my feeling management was keeping him low key and out of talks. Also we don’t know the health status of Scott Elbert. So, I agree we should keep our MLB level kids that performed well last year. I do think LaRoche will be traded but if we are to trade young pitchers I want good young pitching in return-Bedard or Scott Kazmir for instance. I do believe either MacDonald or Kershaw will be traded, either Hu or Abreu, perhaps Young, perhaps Meloan. I fear one of Kemp or Ethier will be traded. My guess is management wants to retain Kemp but might trade if him if they pull the trigger on a Cabrera deal.

DODGERS lets do this Sign Jones or Rowand then Trade Kershaw, Laroche, Ethier, Meloan for Bedard and Tejada. Either would be a better choise to trade because i belive he does not have the same talent that matt kepm has but he still brings interest to teams..

eduardosoto0301….You’re making SENSE, good post. I also am very displeased w/the Wait & SEE Attitude of Jeff Kent. Why is he holding the upper hand ???? We should let him leave and go with young or Abreau…..Kent’s #’s were Fair, but he made many unproductive outs, w/ RISP…

Ned, forget Cabrera and give LaRoche his shot. He is healthy and will be a better than average 3rd baseman. Under no circumstances should we trade Kemp, Billz, Kershaw, etc. Right now, the best trade is no trade unless it rids us of Pierre. Trading Pierre and eating a portion of his contract will make us better right away. I can live with and outfield of Young in left, Kemp in center, and Ethier in right with Repko backing up. If Andruw Jones can be had fairly reasonably, I would go for it. Say 3 years at 45M. Otherwise stand pat. Rowand is not a significant upgrade and should be avoided as his price tag is inflated coming off a career and probably best year he will ever have.
Please Ned, get rid of Pierre at any cost(for some bullpen help perhaps)and don’t make any panic moves like you did last off season. You can see how that turned out. Concentrate on the pitching staff as it is the most glaring problem aside from Pierre. Patience Ned. We already have the tools in the shed and now we have a manager that knows how to use them. Give it a chance.

I can’t exactly say DITTO, since my last DITTO. First of all if Pierre was left unprotected, I don’t think anyone would touch him. I feel we still need Kent. If he decides not to come back we will have another hole to fill, but I do agree that no move right now would be the best move although I’m pretty sure something is about to happen.

They’re saying the ANGELS are the front runner for Cabrera…The guys they have to give up seems good for them…Kendrick, Mathis, and maybe a young pitcher and maybe Reggie Willits…..is alot better than us giving up Kemp, Loney, LaRoche and Kershaw.etc…For the Angels it makes sense..they have had a pretty good off season already getting Garland for Cabrera and now Tori Hunter…they mean business this year…no more weak offense…

The idea of dealing for both Bedard and Tejada is pretty interesting.
Cabrera…maybe not. If the asking price remains high and it would take a multi-year gigantor salary deal…forget it. Let’s concentrate on pitching.

By the Numb3rs: .001 — The increase in OF Juan Pierre’s on-base percentage from 2006 (.330) to 2007 (.331). It was his highest OBP since 2004

forget protecting the kids, look how a veteran is treated…

best op since 04, played daily, team player, 60 steals, .290 and after 1 year on a 5 year deal they want him to move positions (which he played the exact same as he has in 7 previous seasons) or trade him…

honestly am I the only one that is sick and tired of the angels signing top guys while ned and the dodgers sit and twidle there thumbs. make a flippin move already. teams are signing players and the dodgers are talking about nothing that pertains to 08. im happy that they are helping people who need help but help the team already. flip this is frustrating.

The trouble is that based on past off-season or trade experience with Colletti you have to be afraid that he’s only going to screw up the team when he actually does something. That’s what I dread. I don’t see that the Angels have hurt their team in the process, and they don’t have a Pierre to work around for another four years.
The best move that McCourt could have made was to fire Colletti and be done with it. Then we could have some confidence back.

The last thing we need is to ‘make a move’ for the sake of making a move. Or hit the panic button like last season when Drew opted out. It will be a domino effect, in that if we acquire a center fielder that will set off a series of moves. Hopefully, Pierre going out the door. In turn, if we don’t land a free agent center fielder, I don’t really expect much to happen on the offensive side of the roster, I really don’t care what the ‘experts’ think of our offense and this all out need for a legitimate power bat. The offense will be very good and the kids are another year older. That is if they’re given a REAL chance to play. The problem is some will see that as a sign of weakness when really it’s fielding our best team.

Furcal, Martin, Loney, Kent, Kemp, Ethier, LaRoche/Nomar, Pierre is what we’re looking at right now. The ONLY way we get better is to sign Jones or Rowand and ship Pierre out. Otherwise it’s a step backwards, unless there is something unforeseen I’m missing here. Or barring a complete WIN of a trade with Florida for Cabrera where we do not have to give up Kemp or Kershaw. Which would make Ned GM of the year. Which I don’t see happening either…

hey, for those of us who want to follow our prospects in the winter, I found a way.
on the home page, go to roster, then minor league affiates, then stats. go to the player of your choice, click on his name, and a team logo comes up, if it is a winter team it will take you to the last game, hit box score, and you have his stats. enjoy. I still wake up and get nervous on what ned is doing every day, if I have a day off, I check the sites 3 4 or more times a day. please ned save our future, don’t trade our best players for old fading vets.

Let me start off by saying that I love the Dodger kids, and I think that one day they will probably be great major league-rs. That said , I have concerns about the upcoming season. where will the RBIs come from? Kemp and Loney are great young players, but it’s too much to ask them to be run producers in their first complete big league season. I think Matt Kemp will be great eventually, but what happens if he turns into Billy Ashley? This is the same team that finished 4th last season , and to expect Kemp and Loney and maybe LaRoche to carry this team in their first full year is being way to optimistic in my opinion. I’m not saying to dump these guys for over the hill vets like last year, just asking where will the runs come from? We still don’t have a proven HR hitter or 100 RBI guy. Also the pitching staff can’t count on Schmidt , and Pierre is still taking up a valuable roster spot. If things stay the same, I don’t think that we can jump Colorado or Arizona in the standings.

one thing we have going for us is that ned does have his hands tied behind in back. We all know the first wave of talent is now in L.A., but the second wave of talent won’t be of much help in 08. this means if he trades a loney or a kemp, he has to get some one older, more costly, and less productive than what he already has.
WE do have a bunch of talent coming,but only meloan, maybe elbert and mcdonald to help sometime in 08. we have only lucas may at catcher, no one close for help at first base(help a few years away. after hu, abreu we have a waiting period to get to dejesus. At third we have j. Bell, DeWitt, A.Gallagher, and B. Mattewa on the way. After d. Young our best hope for outfielders would be X.Paul, maybe A. Raglani. WE have lots of pitching led by Kershaw Orebduff, C.Wade, K. Wilson and our 07 draft, but they are at least a couple of years away. Greg Miller would be great if he could ever get his control back. So let us stay the course, and stay with our young players.

I believe we must have a blend of young and old, currently we have a blend of young and too old. If we can get an offensive talent like Cabrera we need to make every effort to complete that deal. He is 24 and already 4 all star games! I am not in favor of trading all of our young talent but I would like to win a championship in this decade! Lets face facts that not ALL of our prospects will become All Stars or even Major Leaguers. Of the players being talked about in this trade the chances are that only 2 of them make it and stick let alone become an all star player even 1 year. we must assemble a team. That being said it is a no brainer to sign Andrew Jones!!! I’ll take his 30 HRs and gold glove and 250 BA and playoff experience any time!! As for pitching, we are getting old, either we throw the young ones to the wolves this year and allow them to develop or we sit back and let them develop slowly in the minors. Spending 126 mil on a free agent pitcher is crazy ** see Zito** or even the peanuts we threw to Schmidt and Wolf. SP ing can easily end up on the DL, you should not spend alot of money or prospects in getting pitching, especially when our minor leagues are plentiful with it.

Those of you who are worried that Colletti is going to panic or make a deal for the sake of making a deal, should try to relax, since deals are being made every day and Ned hasn’t made one yet. I really feel he is being very cautious, which is a good thing at this very crucial time.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I was relieved to come home and find our team not in ruins and Hunter going to the Angels. Seriously the Angels did us a favor here, that contract will not look good in a few years. Like many here, I would not make any big moves (aside from moving pierre to another team). I really think we underachieved and with just some minor tweaking we will compete for the division next year. Of course, Im still paranoid we will screw things up royally. Its good to know the Cabrera thing is losing steam. IMO they are aking for too much and for way more than they are asking from the Angels (what’s with that?)

1) I’ve been a bit absent and distracted lately, although I have been keeping up. Among those distractions, events leading up to me getting engaged yesterday. :)

2) I wonder how much Kemp will develop patience at the plate, because if you take away his batting average, he’s going to be about a .290/.325/.480 guy. Of course, developing patience later in a career is normal, but still, and Kemp is showing improvement in judging the strike zone, laying off pitches down and away.

3) That said, I could understand Cabrera for Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw, although one would have to wonder how that would pan out. Kemp could be really a good player, but he could also be Raul Mondesi. LaRoche has excellent plate discipline and is just waiting for his minor league power to translate to the majors, as well as better luck on balls in play. Kershaw is the top lefty pitching prospect, but the risk is him becoming Greg Miller, Hong-Chih Kuo, etc. There is a chance that in the long run this is a bad deal. The frightening thing is that there is also a chance that it is a bad deal in the short run. I would be open to it, though, because Cabrera is in a position to be a hall of famer if he keeps his numbers up, and a solid 900+ OPS guy could really anchor the middle of the lineup, and given how hard marginal upgrades like those are, that’s huge. Imagine if Adrian Beltre hit like it was 2004 every year – that’s Cabrera.

4) Erik Bedard is probably the most likely trade I would see. Baltimore is incompetent and while people would think it would take a Santana package to get him, the Dodgers might be able to supply a good stock of role players. Not only that, but this is a team that signed Danys Baez to a 3 year contract – they may be a suitor for Juan Pierre, who actually would be an OBP upgrade over Corey Patterson. But the real reason I think it’s likely is that Joe Torre is likely to have some say and some pull in which players come over, and given the success he’s had in the AL East, I think Torre would want Bedard.

5) If you worry that the Dodgers might deplete the farm system, particularly if they get Cabrera and Lowe, if they can keep McDonald and/or Kershaw, it might be a fair risk to trade Lowe to help replenish the farm system. Even then, Loaiza, or picking up Wolf, could provide a decent back end of the rotation until it appeared that McDonald or Kershaw (or Elbert or Orenduff or Stults) could crack the rotation. Just a thought.

Anyone that can see a legit reason for trading Kershaw has to be absolutely made. Albert Puljos is about the only person I’d consider trading Kershaw for.

I think Ned realizes that trading Kemp would open a hole in the outfield and I also think that Ned knows an outfield with Pierre/FA/Kemp in it would be more productive then an outfield of Pierre/FA/Ethier.

I don’t think we’ll land Miggy and thats all for the better. the best upgrade we could have is getting rid of Pierre. Thats about it.

I really wouldn’t mind a deal for a starting pitcher though. Berdard is intriguing. I bet we could get that done without the inclusion of Matt Kemp but we’d have to trade LaRoche which would be trading our best third base option. Regardless of who we trade it will open a hole which would be harder to fill then the holes we have now.

Comparing Matt Kemp at this point in his career to Billy Ashley is — how can I say this kindly? — an inappropriate comparision. Such a comparison might have made some sense a year ago, although a shaky comparison even then given the entirely different set of tools the two possess(ed).

But at no point did Billy Ashley ever hit well enough in the big leagues to justify a regular starting position.

The ONLY area where there is any comparison whatsoever between the two is in power. Kemp is heads-and-shoulders above Ashley in every other category. And I haven’t even started with the fielding difference between a lightning-fast kemp and a lumbering Billy Ashley.

Furthermore, Ashley never showed that he could make the necessary adjustments to major league pitching. On the other hand Matt Kemp came up in ’06 and hit 7 homers and .378 in his first 50 major league ABs. Then the pitchers figured out his weakness, and his averaged dropped to .253 while he had no more homers in 104 ABs in 2006.

At that point it might have been reasonable to compare him to Ashley, at least in the sense that one could wonder if he would recover from major league pitchers figuring him out and forever exploiting his weakness(es).

This is where Kemp has quite clearly separated himself from Billy Ashley and the many phenoms/prospects that have not been able to make the adjustments necessary at the major league level. Kemp has weathered that storm very successfully; Ashley never did.

I’m not comparing Kemp to Ashley, I’m just asking where will the RBIs come from? You can’t count on first year players ,even if they are projected to be great one day. Also like I stated earlier , it’s not fair to expect Loney ,Kemp and LaRoche to drive in the necessary runs that it will take to win the division or more. So if you can’t count on their production, where will it come from?

If we could just dump Pierre, I would be satisfied with riding out the season, or at least going up to the trade deadline, with what we have. When we get to the trade deadline, it’s possible that we need to put both Furcal and Lowe on our trade available list, as I don’t see Lowe staying with us or Furcal being worth what he’s going to demand for a contract extension – I could be surprised, but we’ll see. By trade deadline, if not sooner, we’re going to need a starting pitcher or two, and that’s where we should devote our primary attention.

It’s true the pitching has to be addressedv also ,but if we’re going to stick with the prospects, and I’m not saying that’s wrong ,just that you really can’t be shocked if we can’t compete for the division title this year.

Los Angeles Dodgers owner Frank McCourt understands Joe Torre can’t play third base or center field. Even so, he believes the Dodgers are a better team simply because Torre will be on the bench according to the Boston Globe.

“I think we’re in a good position right now,” said McCourt. “We don’t have to make a deal. We made the biggest move we needed to make in signing Joe. I don’t anticipate any nonsense in that clubhouse. He gives us instant credibility and we’re thrilled to have him.”

McCourt wasn’t about to pay a 32-year-old outfielder like Hunter $90 million over five years. He has faith that last year’s free agent bust, righthanded starter Jason Schmidt, who made only six starts before his shoulder weakened. He thinks Matt Kemp, James Loney, and Andy LaRoche are ready to take big steps in their development. Which is why McCourt isn’t crazy about giving them all away for one player.

Source:

From Boston Globe..

I mean common is that the only reason he hired Joe Torre so he can say that he actualy did something in the offseason.. I think he’s wasting to much money on his “CONSETION STANDS” just so he can make some more money and raise the ticket prices even higher..

he doesnt want 2 pay any free agents right now because obviously he has no money cuz it all whent to “CONSETION STANDS”

This I found on Wikapedia about Frank McCourt

Coming into contact with the L.A. Dodgers

After his failed bid to buy the Red Sox he set his sights on the Dodgers. In 2004 McCourt bought the Los Angeles Dodgers for $430 million from NewsCorp, Rupert Murdoch’s flagship enterprise.[2] McCourt’s purchase of the Dodgers was financed completely by debt. To offset the purchase, McCourt has raised ticket and concession prices every year. [3] The Dodgers has since increased in value to $632 million reported by Forbes. [4]

He bought the dodgers Financed completely in dept so what does that mean..

He cant afford to go out and sign quality players..

Thats why he made that parking lot so he can make more money raising parking prices.. and his “consetion stands” are going 2 raise the ticket prices..

Now you understand desperate financing. The only difference between McCourt and the subprime borrowers in the housing market is that McCourt’s franchise value is still going up, and he basically has a franchise for printing money through the increases in all service costs to the fans. Is he restricted in spending big money to get top players? Hard to say, but all loan agreements have certain restrictions, and I wouldn’t be surprised if at certain expenditure level McCourt didn’t need to get further approval from MLB and from his lenders.

As we wait to see what will happen. Which I believe won’t happened until the winter meetings scheduled for Dec 3-6. I say this because Colletti hasn’t made a move yet, but Who knows? It almost seems unanimous that we think that we would be better off without Pierre but it’s hard to imagine any team taking on an outfielder with a weak arm and no power, although he has plenty of speed, unless, maybe to play first base. The other sad part is it looks like we’ll have to give up a top player in any trade and if we take the FA route we again leave a top player dangling without a position except maybe if we go for a pitcher.

Interesting article about a meeting between BudSelig and a group of prominent African-American players concerning the decline of African-Americans in professional baseball and particularly at the major league level.

I would point to the Dodgers as a bright spot here. While I seriously doubt that it is by design, the core of the Dodgers offense and future is African-American — Martin, Loney, and Kemp. (Alright, I know Martin is actually African-Canadin but I think that is close enough for the purpose of this discussion.)

I think it is entirely appropriate that the Dodgers should be at the forefront of efforts to repopularize the game to the African-American community. And it appears that just such an opportunity has fallen into their laps.

No doubt there are multiple causes for this decline.

Here’s a theory that I believe partially explains the situation: Baseball has attempted to become more like basketball. As we all know, baseball in the past decade or two has emphasized offense by building smaller ballparks, probably juicing the ball, and certainly tacitly encouraging players to juice themselves. Baseball saw the growing popularity of basketball (and football) and panicked. “Basketball,”, the powers-that-be said to themselves, “is becoming more popular. If we want to maintain our popularity, we have to be more like basketball. We have to have more offense, more excitement”

But this was a foolish line of thought. Baseball can never be better at being basketball than basketball is. So why would somebody who loves basketball chose a basketballized form of baseball over basketball?

Baseball is the greatest of all sports, and there never should have been any reason to panic because other sports have gained in popularity. There’s room for everybody at the sports smorgasboard.

The best way for baseball to increase the number of African-American ballplayers is to go back to being baseball.

But don’t look for a quick fix. Part of the beauty of baseball is that more than any other sport it is passed down from one generation to the next. Unfortunately in its ill-advised attempts to be something it’s not, baseball has lost much of a generation. It’s going to take some time to rebuild.

I have just recently started reading this blog, and it is a relief to read a blog where someone is talking some sense. I hope to become a regular commentor.

I guess I will give ya’ll an overview of my opinions:

I think that the dodgers should make no deal for cabrera that involves giving up more than Laroche and one middle level non-pitcher prospect. I also think they should keep ALL of the young guys, and play Ethier and Kemp on a regular basis. IF they acquire a good center fielder, they should turn Pierre into a pinch runner, (or cheerleader, I’ll leave that decision up to the front office that can’t make any other ones)if they do not sign another center fielder, hide Pierre’s arm in left field, and move Kemp to center.

The only situation in which I think the Blue should ship out Kemp, is if they trade him and a pitching prospect other than Billingsly or Kershaw for a No. 1 starter. Otherwise, I don’t think that we need a trade.

I think that everyone needs to keep cool, and remember that the Dodgers were predicted to go to the world series until very late in the season. The main problem was the relief pitching, and the clubhouse conflict. The pitching will be fixed by people coming back from injuries, and the strife fixed by letting the young guys play, and bringing in Joe Torre.

Anyway, I know that was a rather lengthy post, but I just wanted to let ya’ll know where I stand on the issues mainly being debated.

The main problem was OBP% from our top 2 hitters in the order was .333.

The main problem was we got 9 wins out of our 1 and 4 starters.

The only reason we were in first place was the other teams, not ours. They are selling us bullbleep and we shouldnt be buying it. If we had played the right players, not relied on 35+ year olds and made the right aqqistions heading into 07 we win, we didnt and we came in 4th place. Pretty simple.

We can get enough homeruns from the outfield if we play Ethier and Kemp full time.

We can get 30 homeruns from our 3-4-5 hitters, depending on who they usually put there.

The OBP was the fault of Pierre, who I said we should make pinch runner

And as for the starting pitching thing, um… our No. 1 pitcher was Penny, who had 16 wins by himself, so, the only thing I can think of was that you were referencing Schmidt, who was injured. He was NOT our #1. All we need from Schmidt is a No. 4 this year, not a No. 1.

And, by the way, we were in first for much of last season, and were right in the mix down until the late-season meltdown

I don’t mean to slam you or anything, I respect most of your posts, but this one just seems like unnecessary doom and gloom, most of which we have already fixed.

Ken Rosenthal is right Shame on the DODGERS.. Joe Torre is not all they need..

do these Dodgers even want to compete next season from the looks of it now i dont think they will.. atleast maybe they’ll make the playoffs but will probably get eleminated in the first round as they always seem to do..

Common we have many holes to fill and we need to make some improvements if we want to compete next year..

Im sorry but you are completely wrong, and we all know how great a sports writer Rosenthal is. Where are these many holes? The pitching staff is it! If we had played Loney over Nomar for the entire year and Kemp and Ethier full time we would have won the division. We do not have many holes. Getting rid of Pierre would be the only real thing to do man.. When you have one real goal in an offseason you dont have many holes.

Think about what happened when we started to lose last season- the clubhouse fell apart leading to more losing. Torre doesnt allow that split, we halt the skid, and could still make the playoffs. It wasnt due to lack of talent that we fell out of contention last season.

Torre might not hit 30 a year, BUT KEMP LONEY AND ANDRE WILL .

Eduardo, did you watch Dodgers baseball last year? Did you see the NL West? Did you see the Rockies and DBacks win 90+ games using “rookie type players”? Your skepticism is unfounded amigo.

Furcal and Pierre at the top of lineup can be very successful and dynamic i think– Raffy had a career worst year so i dont think one can judge based on one year of that combo.

Proctor is absolutely a replacment for Bills in the pen if for no other reason than he is actually a reliever… And Meloan could be easily be that replacement as well. Our Pen is fine– you could say great. The rotation is another story.

“The lowly Reds, for goodness sake, are not content with the hiring of a big-name manager, Dusty Baker. They’re trying to sustain their momentum and build a better team. Signing free-agent closer Francisco Cordero to a four-year, $46 million contract doesn’t exactly qualify as shrewd, but at least it demonstrates commitment.”

Dusty Baker = Joe Torre?? HA!!

What does Rosenthal want us to do? Make bad moves for the sake of showing commitment? This guy is a hack joke of a writer. He cites the lack of Joe Blanton trade as a bad move like he was at the negotiating table or something…

SHAME ON Ken Rosenthal! The Dodgers are doing the right thing. His evaluation sounds like someone who wants the Dodgers to fail. McCourt is right, and I hope that he doesn’t yield to media pressure and make a bad deal just to show he’s doing something. Only a fool would deal away the future of the team. Why are the young Dodger players in such demand? It’s very simple – the other teams recognize their value. To spend millions like the Angels are doing isn’t necessary when you have the talent the Dodgers have. And when the Angels players are declining and still drawing hugh salaries the Dodger players will be the superstars. So Mr. McCourt and Mr. Colletti, don’t pay any attention to guys like Ken Rosenthal. He and others show their ignorance when they urge you to deal away your future.

The free-agent market is terrible. OK, the Dodgers could sign third baseman Alex Rodriguez now that he has opted out of his contract with the Yankees. They could sign Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter to play center field and move Juan Pierre to left. But Torre would be a much bigger bargain.

Managers, even expensive managers, are far cheaper than players. The Dodgers could give Torre a two-year, $14 million contract — the approximate terms he wanted from the Yankees — and trumpet him as their big off-season acquisition.

We DID do that Rosenthal for 20 years!!! We have one playoff victory in that time frame. We’re finally on the right path and there are other teams out there who see what we have and want it. The hardest challenge this winter is to not give into temptation. We have the tools necessary to win we just have to use them correctly. We have a man who can use those tools correctly to lead to maximum reward (Torre). We’re finally headed in the right direction and some people think we’re wrong. Maybe some of you liked the past 20 years of not winning a championship. If you want that by all means support trading the kids for a quick fix.

And in two years when that quick fix is gone…where will that young stability be? In Florida, or have we all forgotten, in New York. Because whenever we trade with the Florida Marlins they end up with the New York Mets. The last thing we need is Matt Kemp and/or Clayton Kershaw pitching for the Mets. I still fear one day in the future Russell Martin may play for the Mets. GOD FORBID!!! We have the path in place, now is not the time to change course.

We (the blog) get it, this organization probably understands it, Rosenthal doesn’t have a clue!

I agree with you guys, Rosenthal is a hack. Saying the Reds made a not so shrewd move by overpaying for a closer when they won’t be in contention for several years, and then say it shows a commitment to winning, it’s just so illogical. How did our “commitment to winning” last offseason go? Does anyone think we wouldn’t be in better shape if we stood pat last offseason? All we did was waste money. And now he thinks we need to spend more to show we care about winning. If McCourt wants to win, he needs to hold off on throwing away prospects and money and believe in our own talent. If we had done that, there would be no pierre, there would be no 8 million dollar bench player in nomar, etc. He’s just trying to get people to read his blog.

I can’t imagine my kid in 20 years not seeing the dodgers win it all and win it the right way as you and I did as kids(if i remember right based on our previous talks) and there are many here on the blog who have never seen it either and it’s a shame. It’s where most of my frustration comes. A few years ago these moves to bring in possible people didnt bother me because I knew we had no choice, now we do and so far, for as much as I bash, they are making the right choices. Go get Jones on a 3 year 60 million deal. Go try and get one more pitcher to compete at the back end. Otherwise stay the course. Sure trade for Miggy or Johan if the price comes down..but Kemp, Loney, Bills and Martin stay at all cost even if that means costing us the 08 season

I belive, as i did in 07 if we build towards 09 now(i said 08 then) we will be better off now and later for it.

Guys, get real, no team is going to take Pierre off of our hands. Who is bad enough to want such a rotten center fielder, except for teams that can’t afford his monster contract.

by the way, I think we should resign Randy Wolf to a 1 year incentive based deal. There is no danger in that, and just think how good he was last year until his injury!!! He was 9 and 6 in only 18 games.

a lefty starter would be nice. I would also consider going after Clement and Colon on big time incentive type deals.

Sherwood thats what I was saying yesterday (things are being set up for Pierre in LF to go along with Ethier and Kemp…thats at most 40 bombs and that is hopeful thinking since the first time Kemp or Ethier will hit 20 each is the first time they will hit 20 each. can they do it? yes, but with Pierre there it gives them little leeway. Id feel much better with D. Young in LF to reach the level of offense needed to be generated by the OF…(or as other say, pinch runner Pierre and Jones/Rowand between the two kids)

Sorry for the doom and gloom yesterday!! And no worries at all man..slam me if i need slamming!!

I never thought about playing Young in the outfield instead of Pierre. I like the idea, Kemp in center, Young in left, and Ethier in right. Of course it isn’t gonna happen unfortunately, they aren’t going to bench Juan, ’cause then it would make them giving him 9 million a year even worse than it already does. Oh well. We can always hope.

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