STUDENT: I
sometimes get the feeling that there's more to not telling lies than simply
not telling people that you're one when you're really two.

KOBUN:Right
speech ...

STUDENT: Does
it refer just to things that we say out loud, or things that we say inside
our head?

KOBUN:I
think it's both. Thinking is process of putting words in mind, even you
don't speak. Most of the time only 1 % of our word activity is talking;
most of the time, very fast thinking.

STUDENT: Is
there thought that's independent of words, and then translated into words?

KOBUN:Many
times, instead of translation into words, keep picturization of things.
And there are very symbolic forms, terms, you are thinking, which have
to be translated when you express them to others. Buddhist scholars in
India worked on this area, deep study of how mental activity arises. Svaha
paramana . Svaha : for yourself. Para : for others. Speech is, talking
is, for others. I compare this with the process of making a picture from
a negative. Sva paramana is before the print is made. It is the process
of the camera's shutter taking an impression onto the film. That process
is invisible from outside. Most of the time in subconscious state it work.
It's like when you go to a shop and choose a color. You cannot say why
you chose that color. Sva paramana is when you say, “I like that best.”
Some choose, “My husband like this color, my wife like this color, so
I chose this.” Para paramana works when you relate with other people.
Shakyamuni Buddha's teaching, which is also called Dharma, is like this:
When someone is hungry, his sva paramana changes to the para paramana
, as a form of food. Many times Buddha's teaching does not depend on sva
paramana , but is very dependent on each condition in which his teaching
came....

Right speech, this is very big sphere.

STUDENT: The
feeling I had is that if one were to start with the simplest things one
couold say about right speech, the first thing you could say was that
it involved not telling lies.

KOBUN:That
is ... sixth precept: Not to speak untruth; also not to speak of yourself
in better than truth, not to speak of others in lesser than truth. Don't
lift yourself in talking down or up. That is untruth. The last precept,
tenth precept, is not to condemn the Triple Treasure. It's like when you
talk, “I am foolish person,” that means you condemn the Triple Treasure.
Triple Treasure never say, “I am foolish.”

STUDENT: It
sounds like you're making such an absolute out of telling the truth. I
can't quite grasp it, but it's just not responsible to tell the truth
all the time.

STUDENT: Almost
whatever you do you wind up telling the truth, somehow, because you can't
hide where you want.

KOBUN:Expression
by words, in very deeper sense is untrue. It's a limitation of word and
symbol, which always points at truth as close as possible; unfortunately
it is not the truth itself. We cannot avoid this activity of talking;
it is almost the only possibility for communication when people's experiences
are different. Like, two men are hiking in the mountains in daytime. Maybe
they don't speak too much, but when nighttime comes and they don't know
where they are, they have to make big sound: “Where are you” ... “I'm
here” ... “Where is here?” They have to search where they are. Talking
has this kind of sense. When a circumstance is experienced by several
people, there is not so much to speak. Buddhist term is gen me jo setsu
. Words disappear, vanish, when truth appear. Important thing to remember
is speaking with truth. As long as truth cannot completely be expressed
by words, to speak with truth is the only way to let the word work. Let
truth speak is the only way. Speak with kindness. If you don't have compassionate
mind, the truth cannot appear. Truth cannot be let out. Let truth out.

STUDENT: Truth
is an animal in a cage!

KOBUN:It
is. That is how everything appears. Not only personal feeling of compassion
but compassion of whole thing appear. Direction you go is, when you work
and meet with people, your face and whole body turns, all energy is directed.
That direction is the same direction the whole of life, the whole universe
is moving. That is how truth appears, how truth is spoken, expressed.
In a deeper sense, talking is like all words. The whole activity by words,
all libraries, all authors, all poetrys, are the sound which tells you
the direction the whole thing is moving. You see the function, meaning
of the whole of language activity. It's like music, like symphony, like
music, and language is itself very simple. Yet yelling, sharp sound is
like a dog is barking.... Humans started this activity from that state,
and started to develop sound.

STUDENT: Like
the Tibetan monks? Sounds to me like pre-sound. Chanting, in an evolutionary
sense, before words.

KOBUN:Telegraph.
And also body by body. When speech cannot reach, voice can reach to very
far place. Sailor, old-time sailor...

STUDENT: Semaphores.

KOBUN: Semaphores,
and you interpreted words. This kind of activity tells how the truth,
how reality is understood in communication of people. Even if it is real,
if it is not truth, better not to speak of it. This is how to keep our
attitude. An example is a Japanese swordsman who is blind. When people
call him blind, three times, his sword pops out and cuts off hand. He
doesn't like to be spoken truth! Uselessness of speaking truth exists.
This is how we practice – to know not to make poison out of reality, out
of truth. Dogen used to say, “loving speech, loving kindness speech, which
is true words.” Like when we are exhausted at bedtime and speak about
it, “Oh, I'm tired.” You get more tired. That is a kind of power; not
power, just communication of words and real feeling... like how we ‘re
speaking.

We use negative power in a positive way. This is how we turn suffering
to pleasure. Otherwise when ignorance appears in the world, it can't be
taken care of. Even in words of untruth, truth exists. We have to keep
that kind of attitude. When I feel good, I say, “I feel good.” When I
don't feel good, I say, “I don't feel good.” This is a very negative expression
of truth, and to speak about it loudly is unnecessary. But it tells that
a negative thing is happening. So when we open to very strong poisonous
words of people, we really find what to do with them. Again we return
to truth. Truth rejects word and from truth word appears. Word is not
truth itself. That is a very interesting point.

STUDENT: Do
you have anything to say about gossip?

KOBUN:Gods
really enjoy gossip...

STUDENT: what
if you only say kind things about someone?

KOBUN:Bitter
word of someone should be spoke directly. Sweet word of other should be
in rumor. That makes the person who speaks more true. That is how truth
speaks. Truth is always stronger than word. Rumor is a kind of state of
thinking; kind of wasting time, too. But, if you have nothing to do, maybe
rumor helps you. In Japan it is called the “committee meeting.” Housewives
around the well...