Not that I've ever been much of a fan of the hardcore title in any context other than as an amusing prop for Foley, but what the fuck is this, WCW? They unveil a new belt -- whose face we'll never get to see, by the way -- make a drastic rule change and then eliminate the title over the course of about six weeks? And Dreamer even comes out with a one-time-only plate for the belt? Are we sure Bischoff isn't really writing this stuff?

What's more, ironically enough, I think that title actually gained a purpose lately as a sort of raison d'etre for the likes of Dreamer and Richards. You know why? They pushed it with plausible hardcore-style wrestlers for once. They finally made it what it should have been, and now it's gone. This has "WCW" written all over it.

Originally posted by Swordsman YenSo does that mean RVD is now the WWE United States Hardcore Eurocontinental Champion?

I'm confused now. JR & Lawler went out of their way to say "last Hardcore match *on RAW*". True, Dreamer left the ring without a belt. But does that mean that there will be a new, more meaningful belt created on Smackdown!, perhaps along the lines of the NWA-TNA X Title?

Steph

P.S. Didn't Dreamer look overwhelmed just to be in Madison Square Garden with a crowd chanting his name?

I suppose RVD is the new Undisputed Intercontinental-United States-Hardcore-National-European-North American-Heavyweight Champion, if you want to consider the NWA Georgia National Title's lineage, as it was fused to the US Title in 1985 or so, the WW(W)F(?) North American Championship's lineage, as that was the Fed/E's secondary title before, and Pat Patterson never lost the N.American Championship, *OH!* and what if you take into account that Scott Hall co-held the US and WCW World TV Title in late 1999? Should there be credit given to the TV title's lineage being tied in up to that point, considering Hacksaw Duggan's World TV Title run wasn't recognized? If so, then should we ALSO include the UWF World TV Title?

In addition, should other titles' lineages be included if a wrestler co-held two titles, but lost one before the other? If so, I suppose you could ALSO include the NWA Missouri title into the mix.

UGHHH... I don't feel too hot...

VK, Swordsman Yen, and everybody, I thought I could help out there, but I just confused myself even more! Sorry, guys. :(

From the desk of Swordsman YenDammit RKM, if they go through the entire lineage in the ring announcement, RVD's arms would get tired from having to hold them up in anticipation of doing his "Points to Self" in timing with his name. :)

Never really dug hardcore matches without RVD. The belts a joke anyways. As for the license plate, I'm pretty sure it was just put over the Texas flag. I won't miss the belt or the matches. Somewhere, in the building, a scream was heard. A cry. A Hardcore legend called out. From the boiler room. That man?

CRASH

HOLLY

Sorry, had to do the scrolling letters thing once. That's just my style. Rudo, all the way!

You ever notice how girls who wore lots of make-up and were considered goog looking or doable in high school, AIN'T that good lookin' a few years after you've graduated? Still doable though. Oh yeah. MORE doable. Hehe.

What gives? Not two months ago people on this board (maybe not the same people on this thread, but a significant number of people) were complaining about how worthless the Hardcore belt was, and that the WWE should get rid of it. I guess they are in the damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of spot, because they just got rid of it (at least it appears so) and people are complaining about it being gone. Sigh. It really IS hard to please everyone.

I think it's just because we're frustrated. For the last year or so we've all been dying for them to drop the 24/7 bullshit that Crash started, and then they finally do (giving us all hope) only to kill off the belt a couple weeks later.

I figure it's an excuse to cut a whole shitload of talent that they no longer need in order to help their next quarterly profits.

I actually think it's an attempt to make hardcore matches/intense brawls more special. Ever since the HC title has become a fixture, trashcans, ladders and chairs have been smashed in the face of most of the lower midcard, and they rarely get the pin. Meanwhile, a single belt shot can knock a main eventer out for five whole minutes. Doesn't really make sense, does it?

With the HC title gone, Street Fights will become a special environment again. When the weapons ARE broken out, they won't be a joke. They'll be "This is WAR!". With the wacky ultra-violence turned to mute, the more realistic violence will gain more impact, and the brutal spots will mean just that much more. As great as Shawn putting HHH through the table was, wouldn't it have meant even more if you didn't see people put through tables every week?

Much as I loved Dreamer as Hardcore champ, I still think this was a good thing.

"All I ever asked for in life is an unfair advantage." Microchip, Punisher Annual #2

Originally posted by Aphrodites ReflectionWhat gives? Not two months ago people on this board (maybe not the same people on this thread, but a significant number of people) were complaining about how worthless the Hardcore belt was, and that the WWE should get rid of it. I guess they are in the damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of spot, because they just got rid of it (at least it appears so) and people are complaining about it being gone. Sigh. It really IS hard to please everyone.

Originally posted by SmooveKHey, that's what I said, and I'm pleased. Pleased as punch!

Yo yo yo, that's what *I* said, too. I mean, it's silly to end the 24-7 stip, and THEN kill the belt (why not do it all at once?) but really, if the Fed woke up and realized this weasn't going anywhere (and it hasn't, for a loooooooooong time) then I can't blame them for sacking it while they still can.

And hey, does this mean we are down to: World, Intercontinental, Tag and Women's belts? I can't complain.

I'm kind of sad that there's no more Hardcore title. From the beginning when Mick Foley held the belt, to Crash Holly's 24-7 reign, I always liked the division (except when Bradshaw was champ.) It was getting ridculous near the end though when they had the multiple title changes at different house shows.

Originally posted by Aphrodites ReflectionWhat gives? Not two months ago people on this board (maybe not the same people on this thread, but a significant number of people) were complaining about how worthless the Hardcore belt was, and that the WWE should get rid of it. I guess they are in the damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of spot, because they just got rid of it (at least it appears so) and people are complaining about it being gone. Sigh. It really IS hard to please everyone.

Not me. I like Dreamer, but can the belt and still have the fights. Occasionally, one of the brawlers breaks out and gets a IC shot or a shot at the big strap. I can enjoy Dreamer, Crash, Bubba, Stevie, Raven and the rest without having some title on them.

You know what they should do? Have an "informal, non-sanctioned" title, like the plate. (Or my Idea: a Garbage can lid on a barbed wire necklace) that they "win." No WWE title, just a man's trophy that the boys try to take away from other the Man. And whatever the "belt" is, it is ALWAYS plunder in the fight.

(edited by AWArulz on 27.8.02 0853)We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....

Bischoff has been making a few decisions and statements that he'd going to have to take back sooner or later. This may be one of them. If the Hardcore title is gone for good, that leaves just the door open for more IC title matches on RAW, assuming that RVD is staying.

The Hardcore Title started off as a joke and legitimized itself over time. Then that one fateful day, 2.3.00, in Trenton, NJ (my hometown), Hardcore Champion Crash Holly decided that he would start defending it 24/7. That killed it. Just wanted to add that sad fact in.

But you never know, correct me if I'm wrong.... but didn't someone take a belt that was retired and kept defending it, despite it not being a 'real' title belt. then after a while, it was finally considered to be a real belt?? I might be wrong, but I recall that happening. Whose to say they won't recycle that storyline? Dreamer could do something like that. Who knows?