Yep. Even if we do have the best health care in the world (and that's debatable), what difference does it make if you can't afford it? I'd rather have the second best health care that doesn't bankrupt me.

That's why none of this excites me. The problem is that the health care industry is out of control due to the insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals. That's where the "change" will come from, not from the expensive leaky bandaid called universal health care that will just be supplementing where the bleeding is coming from, at our expense.

This is the kind of crap that will never be fixed as long as health insurance is a for-profit institution.

Yep. Even if we do have the best health care in the world (and that's debatable), what difference does it make if you can't afford it? I'd rather have the second best health care that doesn't bankrupt me.

And that is kinda what I was trying to imply with my original post. I agree that all of the accusations coming from the Right are true that this bill will be the beginning of Single Payer Universal care. Single Payer didn't have a prayer of a chance to get through the Congress with this Senate. But this Senate bill will. And then comes Obama's fix-it bill through reconciliation. And then maybe a Public Option ammendment soon after.

Once those are signed into law then it can only be amended and fine-tuned and sometime (sooner then never) this country can have federally funded universal health care that will be the envy of the world.

Without this bill, the first step in a long process, then we are stuck with insurance companies and the GOP & teabaggers voting to keep them in power ... and the Supreme Court just added fuel to their fire. It's got to happen this time or not at all.

Once those are signed into law then it can only be amended and fine-tuned and sometime (sooner then never) this country can have federally funded universal health care that will be the envy of the world.

All financed by our increased taxes which will be just be feeding the whole problem, making the pharmaceutical and the health care industries richer on our dime. Marvelous.

Again, not fixing the real reason we need the health care bill, out of control costs.

The cost of current bill is $100 Billion/yr.The CBO score on the Senate bill says it pays down the deficit. We'll know tomorrow what the second Senate bill will score.

What new taxes have you had? What new taxes are in the current budget?Obama's likely not to renew the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans ($250/yr plus), but mostly it's effect is on those with $1Million+/yr.

"Cadillac" policies are said to have a new tax coming. Corporations are going to have to pay taxes on what they've been hiding offshore.

I've just got back from a doctors appointment. First time I've been there.

The guy looked confused when he asked me "who's your regular doctor" and I said "what do you mean regular doctor?"

Then I told him how I don't have bad health coverage, actually pretty good coverage, but for the past few years I don't have a doctor because the insurance keeps changing, so the doctors keep changing.

He just shook his head and said "I understand."

Yep

Me too don't have a regular doctor - in fact the last medical plan change both my then doctor and dentist refused to take my plan .

Yet you claim it will all be financed by increased taxes which don't exist, or have even been proposed. The CBO has given accurate accounting of the cost.

The $100B/yr helps a whole lot of people live, watered down or not. 45K die each year because they had no health coverage. As I stated, the goal is to begin with this bill and improve upon it. But where tax credits and subsidies are written into the legislation, you're saying new taxes where none exist.

So there's fear of Democrats taxing when the reality is that there's extended health coverage for millions and lowered deficits.

Again, not fixing the real reason we need the health care bill, out of control costs.

Certainly costs need to be brought under control, but one of the reasons costs are out of control is because health care was turned over to the private sector.

While I'm certainly against turning into a society like the late Soviet Union, applying capitalism to everything seems silly. The scare talk of socialist health care is just that, silly. Some things aren't logical to be run by private corporations.

Ten years ago when the boneheads in our state government decided to deregulate the gas and electric company I said it was a stupid idea. They said it would promote competition. Yeah, right. Competition with a company that's had it's entire infrastructure paid for by taxes. Well, that fabulous competition that never came around has driven my electric bill from $50-$60 a month to about $300, and they want to keep raising rates because they don't make as much money as they did when they were regulated. I suppose if there is a side benefit I only use about 60% of the electricity I used when I was paying $60 so I don't end up paying a $900 bill. Phos should enjoy it when the deregulation kicks on in PA next year.

I wonder how people would feel if when they dialed 911, they had to have a credit card handy. "Hello ma'am, thanks for calling Acme police force. The fee to come arrest that burglar in your house is $5,000, plus gas and ammunition charges. What, you can't pay? Well then I hope your life insurance is paid for, sorry." Click.

No, the government is there to take care of its citizens. Seems to me health care falls under that category of responsibility.

edit - You know one of the reasons costs are so out of control is R&D costs on some of this equipment. That's one thing that certainly needs subsidies. If companies can start receiving back some of these R&D costs then I wouldn't have to pay $1200 for a one time use stapler in the O.R. that certainly can be manufactured for $5.

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