Wil's ride was quiet and he stoically rode onward, one hand on the reins and the other on the handle of his sword. He nodded to Thalas when he was used as an example of how to ride and when they finally came to a stop he dismounted and helped Flambeuex down from the saddle he didn't how well of a rider she was but she had done fine, as he helped her down the warm pulse of healing surged through him and into her hand as he ensured she was unharmed by the long ride. Once she was on the ground he started to remove the saddle off his horse, he paused though at Suny's exclamation.

As Suny walked around, Wil turned back and continued to remove the saddle plus the other gear off the back of his horse and saw that it was brushed down thoroughly before he tied it off to their makeshift picket line. Once he was done he washed his hands with what little water was available and settled down to checking his pack and helping around the campsite.

Considering my own mentality that we are still at the campsite, and that Wil just also posted about the same timeframe, I assume I am not the only one with an issue on how this all got handled.

I don't know what Chainmail is a GM like from the short time I am here, until this time my short game was enjoyable, but this event about the journey with the carriage is messy.

Sure, it was an NPC that died in this rush, but what if it were Suny or some other PC instead? I am perfectly fine with a proper ambush but this doesn't feel proper to me (maybe it is just me who feels like this, no idea)

The whole point of a proper ambush is that we don't have a clue what is going on at first surely. Look, the game has stops and starts so lets just take it that we got really nicely jumped and leave it at that.

My only issue was that I thought I as carrying Flam and due to my hectic schedule I have a limited opportunity at times to post but if Chainmail deemed she dies then whether shes riding for me or not she has died. I will admit however if I had Hero Points i'd have done something to save her if I could.

It is what it is though I wish I had typed faster. =/ But phone posts suck! lol

it is one thing to get an ambush when we are on our way, it is another when we are just barely starting to prepare for resting, then WHOOSH suddenly we are again on the road and in middle of the ambush

Heck I am not even at home and at my job! I couldn't have posted at all even the few reactions I got in if it weren't for my access to net here and a boss who plays WoW himself to care what I do!

EDIT: this reminds, worktime is over, will be able to post in 4-5 hours again

Well I retconed my post, if we can get to Flambeuex soon enough maybe an Elven Bandage will save her. I agree with Maeve as I thought we were going to have a little camp time, but I didn't realize we'd be moving on so quickly.

Hopefully my new post is good, it fits into the carnage caused by an ambush scenario and no action other then yelling which is free. It doesn't negate the surprise round due to it happening while hes getting thumped with bolts.

Why not just apply the resting period for after the ambush is resolved? So the timeframe jumps around a bit, it's better than one PBP I'm in that hasn't had a single combat yet in a game almost three months old.

Honestly, you should be more concerned about just WTF is throwing a spear for 2d8+10 damage.

In the meantime, all we can do is wait for Initiative to be rolled. As a new player to this game, I don't know if Chainmail does that for us or if we do it ourselves - so I will wait for instructions/my turn/whatever.

2d6+10 damage, with the +10 to attack as well means that Talon is being hit on rolls of 7 or 8. And with the damage that Chainmail has been rolling, that means if Talon is hit, then he is dead. No saves, no more hero points lol. Its gonna be hard work for sure.

From what I understand, there is no combat as such right now until we sort out with Chainmail this huge debate about the ambush and where it comes in the timeline. I don't know about you, but I don't think we were resting for the evening when this ambush occurred. I might be wrong and if so then correct me.

After reading the post again, it sure looks like it's sometime during the first day: Suny riding the horse with me, four people inside the carriage, etc. If some of us got ahead of the events Chainmail was planning on having happen, they can be "used" later.

Bandage Flambeuex, pull her butt into carriage and use windows in the carraige for cover and arrow slits and keep running. Only options for us.

Note to self, carry crossbows when moving in a carriage. lol Longbows in a small space would suck...

So Wil is in the back, Suny/Thalas in the front, Talon on the footman stool? and the rest are perched inside the carriage while Flambeuex is dangling on the side with a spear through her middle. Shiza. WE need wands of fireball. lol!

Haha yeah she could. In all fairness that's not a bad idea. In any case, Talon would almost certainly prefer to be outside because then he has a nice bow that he can use.

The reason why I posted what was above, I understand what Chainmail posted. I got confused as our marching order got a bit tussled. Other then that lets continue the battle because I couldn't care less whether it was a rest or not. Mispost on my part and negated because Chainmail posted before I did anyway. Lets get on with it.

I still say get the body, get the banner and then run for our lives. Seltyn, if you have scorhing ray, then get these bastards as soon as they show their heads, but otherwise lets run for safety and our lives.

DM Chainmail, in their post IMMEDIATELY following Thalas Lebarath post (Thalas post @ 02:26 AM. DM Chainlail @ 02:49 AM) Should have had a 'heading' type message.leader explaining the passing of that first night (Hence allowing people to 'fill in' said evening in passing if they'd wished)

Now, as for 'WTFBBQ! We got ambushed?' comments from some quarters.

1) The DM EXPLICITLY asked for marching orders and such twice I do believe before every one even set out. So, upon our own heads for not being 'serious' enough in our replies to such requests.

2) No on in their right mind would have had the Elven banner 'just carried' by some one...for the entire day...while riding on a coach. Though I lament the falling of a comrade (Even an NPC)) Having said character doing such a thing is silly. An important item such as a banner is either A) Flying high for all to see OR B) Furled and stowed away properly and reverently.

3) Now, since there was no 'Evening' banter (See my first comment above) some subtle but important things hence got over looked. Suny would NOT be riding on the second day...possibly not even on a third, for that mater. And so people's positions may-hap need to be discussed here quickly and concisely before moving on.

So, finally, I apologize for a huge block of text. Secondly, I hope my thoughts are in reasonable order and make sense to folks. Thirdly, while PbP's can move slowly bravo to people for moving this one along at something like 60+ posts over twelve or so hours.

Much cheers to all.

EDIT: I think I see another small problem which is the slight lack of 'concise' information and descriptions.

1) Upon which day/night/afternoon of the journey is this happening?

2) The ambush was staged 'Under' the bridge'? Yes/No

3) The party is being attack from ahead and behind? Yes/No

Answers to these questions should also allow for people to be 'slightly' repositioned.

Maybe it's just because I have a perverse sense of humor, but I think it's funny that the chaos and confusion of an ambush is actually reflected in-game with people not know where they are or what's going on.

I know where Wil is: Rearguards been his job since the beginning and so I just stay there but if the spear came from behind and impaled Flam then we must have took a corner while getting close to the bridge.

But from now on unless otherwise dictated by Seltyn or myself Wil will be guarding the rear.

K removed my last post because its not a good one, I understand I was flat footed and it doesn't jive with the insta heal perk you've allowed Chainmail. Sorry for allowing my own Houserules to cause me to overstep. Been very bad about that lately due to some complications in my family. nothing for you all to be concerned about, its my life. I'll deal with it. But if i'm short with you I apologize, i'm wore out from 16 hour days and worried sick over stuff right now and do not mean to take it out on anyone. I just can't think and my fuse is short.

After this encounter, I am seriously considering suspending the elf thread. I have not minded having rulings questioned occasionally, but having them complained about and getting snarky comments about them is where I draw the line.

I ran this exact campaign for six previous groups under AD&D rules and had no problems. Maybe the adaption to pathfinder is causing the problems for this group. The dwarf thread, amazingly, is going without incident. The dwarves may have to meet the last elf party that ran through this, I still have good notes on them.

Anyway, Pathfinder may have changed the first rule of AD&D. The DM is the ultimate interpreter of how things go. I am somewhat knowledgeable about how fighting from MRAPs goes in Afghanistan, so I have a good idea of how many people can effectively operate and fight out of a carriage I modeled after an MRAP in a firefight.

The bottom line is this is supposed to be fun. Let me know if you are having fun or not. I am getting to the point where I am not. I will probably not continue as we are going.

I can understand where you are coming from, often having the same issues with my own party. I think the layer of confusion really came from some of the party assuming that we had had a longer period of time than we had had before the ambush occurred. Some of the party had made posts assuming that an entire day had gone past without incident. Others had assumed that stuff might happen, and therefore given more general posts that didn't require as much involvement with the time of the day.

I agree that the first rule puts the GM as ultimate interpretor of the rules and events as they occur. Understand though that if one person posts an entire days worth of actions and then you come and make it so that something happens, then that changes the day, changes the actions that might have occured and so on. Therefore much of what is going on is down I suspect to communication errors of one sort or another.

Speaking for myself, whilst I occasionally require clarification, otherwise yes I am having fun. I enjoyed taking an old character of mine and getting to play the guy again. Who wouldn't?

I think I have complained once or twice about things. Once right at the very beginning when we were still discussing how to deal with the humans, and yet suddenly we were at the docks. That was swiftly dealt with and in a very interesting fashion.

The second time was when my character was killed off by a trap. An absolutely ingenious trap that has made me reconsider my character and the manner that he interacts with the world. Hopefully that has come across. And lets face it, who doesn't get attached to a character and complain a little when they are killed? I haven't come across anyone yet. If I came across as too aggressive in that then my apologies.

If you aren't enjoying the game, then it would be more than within your rights to call it off. I personally would ask that you don't.

If the issue is about how Maeve wanted to cast a spell, I dug through the memorized spells and choose Hold Person especially because it doesn't need any normal targeting or attack roll so that even someone staying before the window it should be no problem. For same reason I didn't use the crossbow.

There were two lucky critical attacks against the troll but without them the only hope we had was using the carriage as fortress, as Suny and Maeve planned to do.

The game is still going on, and I would like to have it continued, especially as the background is about competing with the dwarven side and thus the concept would fall apart if one of the two ends. Some concerns about how timejumps and rolls are handled should however be clarified, I publicly wrote about my concerns of not being able to keep up with multiple timejumps, that the characters may be (and seems, were) changing their location since the rest, and that timejumping from the middle of a rest into travel/ambush wasn't right. I did this to get a clear image on how and why things happened, and because concerns IMO have to be addressed right away.
However, I did get some PM-s from others about the very same issues, my reaction was to ask the author to PM you the concerns as it is never good to silently endure problems then later have it all burst out at once. No idea Chainmail if you got any PM-s so I don't write names.

I like the story, but if you use Afghanistan as example please consider how you would feel if you as a soldier would drink coffee and read newspaper on the toilet in middle of your base in one moment, then suddenly you get hours later in a taliban ambush some miles away in enemy territory, and you don't even recall how the heck you got from the toilet to that location, as if you had a long memory lapse.

So, all in all I like how in the end the encounter got handled after all characters got their own rolls, nothing else would be fair, especially a dozen enemy at once would roll a critical hit or a 20 on hiding, naturally the same wouldn't be fair if all PC-s roll as a "hivemind", all characters have different modifiers as well.

I don't know about Pathfinder adaptation or anything, but I played almost 2 decades pnp and this was the very first time for me that in a game player/npc actions were collectively rolled for (except a single case where a huge swarm of scarabs as enemy moved and attacked as one entity)

In short: I like the game, I wish it to continue, but there has to be a decision made on how timejumps and certain rolls are done to avoid problems like misunderstandings and chaos in future. You mentioned some people complained to you that the game is slow, I don't recall this being mentioned in the discussion thread and I liked the pace (and who knows how many others did so too), plus we don't have to be compared in speed to other games/groups, every party has its own pace.

IMHO The core problem was in this case that you placed a rest event/scene when you most likely planned to quickly reach the ambush location, without the resting location/scene no player interaction/position changing would have happened, no such scene would have been broken/interfere with by a sudden timejump, and the events would have flown easily into the ambush from start of the journey to the attack location.

You gave an opportunity with the resting location for the players to RP, to interact, to change setup so to speak, of course after it characters wouldn't be the same way as before the "pit stop". This caused the chaos, an interference.

These all are my thoughts about the events, I think you may have wanted to rush the game due to being tired or maybe the dwarves are that much ahead of us or something, maybe take a week of rest if you need it, but please let's continue :)

After this encounter, I am seriously considering suspending the elf thread. I have not minded having rulings questioned occasionally, but having them complained about and getting snarky comments about them is where I draw the line.

I ran this exact campaign for six previous groups under AD&D rules and had no problems. Maybe the adaption to pathfinder is causing the problems for this group. The dwarf thread, amazingly, is going without incident. The dwarves may have to meet the last elf party that ran through this, I still have good notes on them.

Anyway, Pathfinder may have changed the first rule of AD&D. The DM is the ultimate interpreter of how things go. I am somewhat knowledgeable about how fighting from MRAPs goes in Afghanistan, so I have a good idea of how many people can effectively operate and fight out of a carriage I modeled after an MRAP in a firefight.

The bottom line is this is supposed to be fun. Let me know if you are having fun or not. I am getting to the point where I am not. I will probably not continue as we are going.

I put things in the spoiler so as to take up less space. *Bows*

I've only just been made aware of people having the discussion. No dot was showing up to let me know there was even a discussion going on.

So,

1) If you, as the DM do not feel as if we, the players are making your time worth it...then I am sorry, saddened and a little shamed but completely understand you wishing to let things go. *Bows*

2) One of the problems when it comes to people communicating over the internet is that the written language is something of a some what flat and two dimensional medium. Many a time the subtler things/expressions can become lost between the writer and the reader.

3) There is also the different time zones. As I mentioned. I went to bed with the party seeming settling down for the night and eight hours later some 60+ posts and the first phases of an ambush. It was...disconcerting.

Finally...as to the question of whether I, the player am having fun? This means little as your qualifier is that you are not.

Knowing this,

Will I try harder to make your 'job' easier? Yes I will.

Will I try and make Suny 'better'? Within the frame of the choices made for her class picks? Yes, I will.

(Would I make a different set of class choices? In hind sight I most definitely would)

Beyond this? Please let me know what I can do to help/assuage your annoyance/anger/frustration.

PbP is very different from table-top. Everything takes MUCH longer to accomplish. To use your quote,

Sister Maeve wrote:

I played almost 2 decades pnp and this was the very first time for me that in a game player/npc actions were collectively rolled for

If he'd stopped to ask everyone to individually roll perception checks, and then initiative order, it would've taken a very boring WEEK of waiting for everyone to post.

No need to wait for player perception rolls, but as GM he can roll easily 8d20-s or so and apply the proper modifiers, all in one post. With the auto-dices on the forum this should actually be easier than in pnp. No one can cheat, although IMO only the actual player or GM should roll for a character and not others even in this virtual environment. The real problem wasn't even the rolls but that we got "dragged away" from the resting and into an ambush without time to address tactics/positioning, or reaction. IMHO it would have made more sense getting ambushed on the spot where we began to rest instead of the teleportation.

Also, as Suny mentioned people barely reacted to the resting, and due to timezone differences (we are basically scattered all around the world) it meant in many cases that the timejumps have even a worse result than if everyone would be awake/asleep at the same time. Exactly because this is very different from table-top, reaction time has to be considered. I am just "lucky" that I have more access daily to net and thus am able to react more/quicker to events in the game than others on most cases.
Suny seems to be the ultra-polite player who avoids direct confrontation as much as possible even if not agreeing with something, despite this, she still called the the timejump "...disconcerting". (I don't believe I ever read any stronger wording from her ooc before)

Some people had no time to even post upon the resting scene at all as example (in Suny's case she posted before going to bed as I read it, then woke up to being in the ambush, on the horse she wasn't planning to sit upon again, and getting targeted by 3 crossbows) or comment on what they wanted to do. Maeve was lucky, she didn't plan to ride upon a horse to begin with, and didn't go through the worst of the problem, but not everyone had this luck.

Anyway, I stop commenting on this because it makes me look as the bad guy who complains because no one else clearly and directly write their concerns down in the discussion thread. Plus if they are fine with continuing without a word despite the PM replies I got then I will adapt to the situation too, and not say a word more even if those Player Characters die in a similar situation in the future. It's upon their own head now, but I do hope it won't result in the death of Maeve and the whole party in the end.

I run 2 PbPs here. I roll real dice for things like initiative, monster hit and damage rolls, and secret rolls. Typing all that takes too long. Then, I just give the initiative order and tell them what happens and people go on their turns. I frequently repost it, along with a map link, to make it easy to see what's going on without too much searching.

I run 2 PbPs here. I roll real dice for things like initiative, monster hit and damage rolls, and secret rolls. Typing all that takes too long. Then, I just give the initiative order and tell them what happens and people go on their turns. I frequently repost it, along with a map link, to make it easy to see what's going on without too much searching.

And yes, it's easy to sound snarky when you didn't mean to.

I guess I do sound snarky or similar, but I am/was just worried and concerned about the clarity of things, and that problems are hidden under the rag/bed instead of addressing them.

Seltyn I didn't even consider the chance some GM-s roll with real dice, I actually think the help of auto-dices is useful, especially for a heavily-buffing party with cavaliers/paladins/bards where many minor modifiers can easily disappear.

I would really love to have this game continue, but also properly address every concern so the result is more than just temporary calmness. I love the idea of somehow co-playing with the dwarven group, and that I am able through Maeve to add to the world, to make the Black Citadel, the Witch Queen, and her family a part of the world. I am sure everyone else also loves to add to the world, to be able to form it.

I think the primary issue was from the "single roll for the whole party" on perception.

Initiative is only important in round one. Beyond that it's just round-robin. Personally I would have no problem at all with an arbitrary assignment of initiative based on what the GM thinks is appropriate.

I had some issues when I first started this game due to what I saw as a lack of full description. Things kept taking me by surprise and rendering the things I wanted to do impractical or impossible.

What I figured out is that Chainmail wants a rules-based description of how you do things. Your intentions aren't the important part. It's the mechanical results. Getting the most out of this game requires using the entire system and using every trick in the book.

I can do that (as can most of us, I'm sure), I just wasn't expecting it for a pbp game (which tend to run looser with the rules).

Chainmail, if you decide to drop the game, I understand. Being a GM is often a thankless job. If you decide to run something else in the future, I'd love it be involved.

It has mentioned in PM's that I should post exactly what I think is wrong with things and that I have not been clear in expressing my objections/grievances.

So, I found the sudden shift between one series of posts which seemed about the party 'bedding down for the night' only to be followed within an eight hour period of the party riding along into an ambush to be disconcerting.

I understood Real Time had passed, but could see no clear development between when i had previously looked at the thread and then.

This 'Time dislocation' was jarring. People did not seem 'prepared' (Not the right word, but the closest I can think of at time of typing) and much confusion seemed in evidence amongst many posters.

Sister Maeve finds my posts here as avoiding confrontation.

I am trying to express/explain myself, through the medium of the written language, in such as way as to convey meaning with out emotion.

Getting thoughts across is the important thing.

The dislocation happened. I believe at the time I expressed surprise and confusion. Followed by requests for clarification. Things continued to move on.

I hope I have been clearer with these words than any before.

Again, my previous answers to DM Chainmail's questions stand.

I wish all the very best and hope we continue as a group.

Very best wishes to all and those close to them. *Bows*

Slight edit To correct spelling mistakes and weird word choices there of from the spell checker. :P

First, the ruling of only one fighting from the carriage was questioned and obviously not accepted although I allowed three to fight from the caravan at a time as it did not affecte gameplay and the overall outcome.

I do not how to take this comment in a positive light:
We aren't done yet so don't jinx it, and I should channel at end of turn most likely (unless it is ruled that Maeve had to leave the damn carriage and I get shot instead)