There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Look at what Yesh posted and the following comments. You are defending something not attacked.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Look at what Yesh posted and the following comments. You are defending something not attacked.

Also, right or wrong, the parent always trumps the teacher.

Yesh said that childless people have no business telling parents how to raise their children. I observed that childless teachers do have that business. You claimed that teaching is not part of the raising business. I've called BS.

Also, right or wrong, within the school, the teacher reigns supreme.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Look at what Yesh posted and the following comments. You are defending something not attacked.

Also, right or wrong, the parent always trumps the teacher.

1-Yesh said that childless people have no business telling parents how to raise their children. I observed that childless teachers do have that business.

2- You claimed that teaching is not part of the raising business. I've called BS.

3- Also, right or wrong, within the school, the teacher reigns supreme.

1- And Yesh was correct.2- it isn't. You called BS, but you are incorrect.3- Also incorrect, horribly incorrect.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Look at what Yesh posted and the following comments. You are defending something not attacked.

Also, right or wrong, the parent always trumps the teacher.

1-Yesh said that childless people have no business telling parents how to raise their children. I observed that childless teachers do have that business.

2- You claimed that teaching is not part of the raising business. I've called BS.

3- Also, right or wrong, within the school, the teacher reigns supreme.

1- And Yesh was correct.2- it isn't. You called BS, but you are incorrect.3- Also incorrect, horribly incorrect.

Keep telling yourself that, bub. And do go into teaching. So you see what it's really like on the other side of the fence.

I just feel sorry for the kids.

Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Look at what Yesh posted and the following comments. You are defending something not attacked.

Also, right or wrong, the parent always trumps the teacher.

1-Yesh said that childless people have no business telling parents how to raise their children. I observed that childless teachers do have that business.

2- You claimed that teaching is not part of the raising business. I've called BS.

3- Also, right or wrong, within the school, the teacher reigns supreme.

1- And Yesh was correct.2- it isn't. You called BS, but you are incorrect.3- Also incorrect, horribly incorrect.

Keep telling yourself that, bub. And do go into teaching. So you see what it's really like on the other side of the fence.

There is this Amish proverb - "Those without children know best how to raise them".

I just wonder how many here are arguing for the public education system who do not have children. That would be an interesting piece of knowledge to obtain.

The proverb is so true. I can't count how many people I have seen questioning parents on issues such as "spanking", "homeschooling", etc., when they do not have children of their own.

Just for you anit-homeschoolers, we are going to a homeschool graduation this weekend. Several of the children have full scholarship to SMU in Dallas, TX.

Guess the Amish model doesn't provide for childless teachers.

Teachers teach. Parents raise children. Believe me, I know the difference and I want to teach as my second career. Just because you are around a person as an occupation does not mean you know what is best for that child. You certainly can help, and most would appreciate the hand, but you are not that child’s parent and unless you have your own children and have the experience to back up your comments, one should refrain from making those comments. I don’t tell pilots how to fly because I have been on a plane. Teachers shouldn’t tell parents how to raise children or by default know how to raise children because they are around kids doing their job of teaching.

So teachers, whether they are themselves parents or not, do get to have opinions on how people should educate their children. Glad we agree.

You may want to read my post again and actually see what I did say instead of what I did not.

Yes, I saw what you said. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how exactly the teaching gig is not part of the raising gig.

Then you understand your mistake in the response?

Your confusing the profession of teaching with parenthood scares me.

I'm sure you'll get all sorts of warm fuzzies when you're a teacher and the parents tell you that you have no business telling them anything about their children's attitude or behaviour because you're just teaching them.

I don't plan on confusing my job with theirs. I imagine this will ease things a bit. Again, you may want to play closer attention to what I am saying I rather than what I am not. Or continue to draw false conclusions...either way.

You may find that what you plan or imagine will end up having very little to do with the reality of things.

But what do I know - I've only taught for a decade or so.

You're still focused on what I'm not saying.

I'm focused on the fact that teaching is an integral part of childrearing, so parents and teachers need to collaborate, not to move out of one another's way or try to take over one another's role.

Take that as a parent-teacher's tu'pennyworth.

Look at what Yesh posted and the following comments. You are defending something not attacked.

Also, right or wrong, the parent always trumps the teacher.

1-Yesh said that childless people have no business telling parents how to raise their children. I observed that childless teachers do have that business.

2- You claimed that teaching is not part of the raising business. I've called BS.

3- Also, right or wrong, within the school, the teacher reigns supreme.

1- And Yesh was correct.2- it isn't. You called BS, but you are incorrect.3- Also incorrect, horribly incorrect.

Keep telling yourself that, bub. And do go into teaching. So you see what it's really like on the other side of the fence.

I just feel sorry for the kids.

I will, thanks.

Don't worry about the kids. They have parents who do that already.

And well they should. When the horses pull in different directions, the cart can only end up in the ditch.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

And well they should. When the horses pull in different directions, the cart can only end up in the ditch.

Indeed, which is why the parents pull the cart until the child is able to do so alone.

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

That is nice and all, but teaching is a profession, parenting is not. You are paid to teach, parents are not and if they do teach it is usually at their expense. Teachers have a kid for a short time, parents have children for life. Teachers observe children in a strictly controlled environment, parents see everything (good and bad at both ends of the extreme spectrum). Teachers don't feed, dress, house, care for, tuck in bed, comfort after heartbreak, etc., their students, but the parents do. Additionally, parents tend to spend much of their time with their children on school work while at home. So, if you insist on comparing yourself as a teacher to being a student’s parent, knock yourself out, but it’s kind of silly. In fact, it makes more sense for a parent to be compared to a teacher since they spend at least as much time at home doing the very same thing you do with their child, only with screaming frustration involved, while making dinner and all of the other duties of domestic life simultaneously.

I have a terrible news flash for you. The world would go on with no teachers. Not so much without parents.

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

That is nice and all, but teaching is a profession, parenting is not. You are paid to teach, parents are not and if they do teach it is usually at their expense. Teachers have a kid for a short time, parents have children for life. Teachers observe children in a strictly controlled environment, parents see everything (good and bad at both ends of the extreme spectrum). Teachers don't feed, dress, house, care for, tuck in bed, comfort after heartbreak, etc., their students, but the parents do. Additionally, parents tend to spend much of their time with their children on school work while at home. So, if you insist on comparing yourself as a teacher to being a student’s parent, knock yourself out, but it’s kind of silly. In fact, it makes more sense for a parent to be compared to a teacher since they spend at least as much time at home doing the very same thing you do with their child, only with screaming frustration involved, while making dinner and all of the other duties of domestic life simultaneously.

I have a terrible news flash for you. The world would go on with no teachers. Not so much without parents.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate.

It is quite obvious you have no experience of a school system where a teacher is expected to be a carer of their students, so nothing I can say on that can even clue you in.

And the world would go on without 99% of modern professions, but you don't see many people claiming we should do without them already.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

That is nice and all, but teaching is a profession, parenting is not. You are paid to teach, parents are not and if they do teach it is usually at their expense. Teachers have a kid for a short time, parents have children for life. Teachers observe children in a strictly controlled environment, parents see everything (good and bad at both ends of the extreme spectrum). Teachers don't feed, dress, house, care for, tuck in bed, comfort after heartbreak, etc., their students, but the parents do. Additionally, parents tend to spend much of their time with their children on school work while at home. So, if you insist on comparing yourself as a teacher to being a student’s parent, knock yourself out, but it’s kind of silly. In fact, it makes more sense for a parent to be compared to a teacher since they spend at least as much time at home doing the very same thing you do with their child, only with screaming frustration involved, while making dinner and all of the other duties of domestic life simultaneously.

I have a terrible news flash for you. The world would go on with no teachers. Not so much without parents.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate.

Kerdy, not all parents raise their kids. I'm sure you do. My parents did. But there are plenty who raise their children to be little more than animals. I personally don't think it is the teacher's job to be raising these children, but I also don't think the teacher should be expected to put up with the effects of this poor parenting. When a child is so defective that they become a disturbance, the rights of the other children to a decent education should not be infringed. At this point, I believe that teachers should have power of discipline within their own classrooms.

Here is the thing with homeschooling. You really can't make a blanket statement about it because it depends so much on the individual situation. I had several friends growing up who were homeschooled. Some did very well with it, others did very poorly. It depends on how much work the parents are willing to put into it, how easily the child responds to an individualized setting as opposed to a social setting, how qualified the parent is, what sort of curriculum is being used, etc.

I would personally not be in favor of homeschooling my children because:we live in a decent school district my daughters are very social and although there are homeschooling co-ops, I don't feel that we would be able to participate to the extent that it would be beneficial for them. I am not confident in my or my wife's ability to properly teach higher education subjects or assist them in specialty subjects that would be available in the P.S.

I'm sure others are in different situations and as a result, maybe it would work for them.

my daughters are very social and although there are homeschooling co-ops, I don't feel that we would be able to participate to the extent that it would be beneficial for them.

We've been a part of two homeschool co-ops, and if we do go back to homeschooling we won't be doing that again.

While we were able to make a few adult friends through those organizations, the only co-ops available to us are religious in nature and lean hard to the Evangelical side of things (including mandatory "chapel" for children and parents that always made me squirm). The friends we made were generally non-Evangelicals and Catholics who banded together in our non-enthusiasm for Chris Tomlin songs.

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Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

my daughters are very social and although there are homeschooling co-ops, I don't feel that we would be able to participate to the extent that it would be beneficial for them.

We've been a part of two homeschool co-ops, and if we do go back to homeschooling we won't be doing that again.

While we were able to make a few adult friends through those organizations, the only co-ops available to us are religious in nature and lean hard to the Evangelical side of things (including mandatory "chapel" for children and parents that always made me squirm). The friends we made were generally non-Evangelicals and Catholics who banded together in our non-enthusiasm for Chris Tomlin songs.

What? Didn't you know that Chris Tomlin is scheduled to be writing the next Divine Liturgy? "...St. Christopher Tomlin whose Liturgy we have celebrated this day..."

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

That is nice and all, but teaching is a profession, parenting is not. You are paid to teach, parents are not and if they do teach it is usually at their expense. Teachers have a kid for a short time, parents have children for life. Teachers observe children in a strictly controlled environment, parents see everything (good and bad at both ends of the extreme spectrum). Teachers don't feed, dress, house, care for, tuck in bed, comfort after heartbreak, etc., their students, but the parents do. Additionally, parents tend to spend much of their time with their children on school work while at home. So, if you insist on comparing yourself as a teacher to being a student’s parent, knock yourself out, but it’s kind of silly. In fact, it makes more sense for a parent to be compared to a teacher since they spend at least as much time at home doing the very same thing you do with their child, only with screaming frustration involved, while making dinner and all of the other duties of domestic life simultaneously.

I have a terrible news flash for you. The world would go on with no teachers. Not so much without parents.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate.

It is quite obvious you have no experience of a school system where a teacher is expected to be a carer of their students, so nothing I can say on that can even clue you in.

And the world would go on without 99% of modern professions, but you don't see many people claiming we should do without them already.

Right. A teacher is expected to be an educator. If the teacher is good, they can also be a role model or any number of other things, but they are not the parent nor should they attempt to position themselves in any similar role.

Again with addressing things I didn’t say. What is with you? Point to where I said all teachers should be eliminated.

I personally don't think it is the teacher's job to be raising these children, but I also don't think the teacher should be expected to put up with the effects of this poor parenting.

Right, again. It is the parents job to raise their children and as long as someone else will do it for them, bad parents will let them. Teachers are not the only ones who must deal with the effects of poor parenting. Everyone must deal with it. I have had to deal with it on many occasions and even had to remove children from their homes because of useless parents. Then again, that IS part of my job, and I turned them over to CPS and Family Court.

At this point, I believe that teachers should have power of discipline within their own classrooms.

I never thought paddles should have been removed from the classroom, so I am pretty much in total agreement with you.

All I am saying is teachers are not parents, and even if they are, they are not their students’ parents (usually), and need to remain professional educators rather than attempt to parent the children. I spent many years working with youth in afterschool programs and through various religious programs. At no point did I ever feel I needed to parent those kids. I was their friend, someone they could talk to about whatever they felt like, an EDUCATOR, etc., but at no point did I step into the role of their parent to raise them. I did; however, offer to help the parents if they wanted it in specific areas. Most declined, some happily took the assistance. In other words, I stayed in my lane.

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

That is nice and all, but teaching is a profession, parenting is not. You are paid to teach, parents are not and if they do teach it is usually at their expense. Teachers have a kid for a short time, parents have children for life. Teachers observe children in a strictly controlled environment, parents see everything (good and bad at both ends of the extreme spectrum). Teachers don't feed, dress, house, care for, tuck in bed, comfort after heartbreak, etc., their students, but the parents do. Additionally, parents tend to spend much of their time with their children on school work while at home. So, if you insist on comparing yourself as a teacher to being a student’s parent, knock yourself out, but it’s kind of silly. In fact, it makes more sense for a parent to be compared to a teacher since they spend at least as much time at home doing the very same thing you do with their child, only with screaming frustration involved, while making dinner and all of the other duties of domestic life simultaneously.

I have a terrible news flash for you. The world would go on with no teachers. Not so much without parents.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate.

It is quite obvious you have no experience of a school system where a teacher is expected to be a carer of their students, so nothing I can say on that can even clue you in.

And the world would go on without 99% of modern professions, but you don't see many people claiming we should do without them already.

Right. A teacher is expected to be an educator. If the teacher is good, they can also be a role model or any number of other things, but they are not the parent nor should they attempt to position themselves in any similar role.

Again with addressing things I didn’t say. What is with you? Point to where I said all teachers should be eliminated.

You are saying that parents can take over the teachers' job with as much success, and that teachers are meant to walk into the classroom, blab for a length of time and walk out. Both are inaccurate, as well as disrespectful to the people who dedicate their lives to imparting knowledge.

As for the extent of parent/teacher interface, as I said, you obviously have no experience of systems where the two actually work in tandem. It's okay - you can't help not knowing what you don't know.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

I am still shocked you believe education is the same as raising a child. Education is a part, certainly, but not in the sense a teacher should feel as if they have any parental right to that child in any way. Those rights rest solely with the parents (or legal guardian). You have the child a portion of the school year for a specific amount of time during the day. Parents have them their entire lives for the rest of the time. Unless the parent is either an idiot or disengaged completely, they know more of what is beneficial for their own child than any teacher. Don’t get me wrong, teachers are a valuable resource if they take their job seriously, but they are not parents. I have kids and even I wouldn’t tell someone else how to raise their kids. I may offer suggestions based on my experiences, but that is all. Let the parents raise the kids, teachers educate on a specific subject and the kid moves on to another teacher next year. Be an source of encouragement, but don’t try to replace the parent.

I'm still shocked you can't grasp the concept of collaboration between parents and teachers. But then, it's another world over here and we have antiquated concepts like 'pastoral guardianship' and 'duty of care' in our education system.

That is nice and all, but teaching is a profession, parenting is not. You are paid to teach, parents are not and if they do teach it is usually at their expense. Teachers have a kid for a short time, parents have children for life. Teachers observe children in a strictly controlled environment, parents see everything (good and bad at both ends of the extreme spectrum). Teachers don't feed, dress, house, care for, tuck in bed, comfort after heartbreak, etc., their students, but the parents do. Additionally, parents tend to spend much of their time with their children on school work while at home. So, if you insist on comparing yourself as a teacher to being a student’s parent, knock yourself out, but it’s kind of silly. In fact, it makes more sense for a parent to be compared to a teacher since they spend at least as much time at home doing the very same thing you do with their child, only with screaming frustration involved, while making dinner and all of the other duties of domestic life simultaneously.

I have a terrible news flash for you. The world would go on with no teachers. Not so much without parents.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled debate.

It is quite obvious you have no experience of a school system where a teacher is expected to be a carer of their students, so nothing I can say on that can even clue you in.

And the world would go on without 99% of modern professions, but you don't see many people claiming we should do without them already.

Right. A teacher is expected to be an educator. If the teacher is good, they can also be a role model or any number of other things, but they are not the parent nor should they attempt to position themselves in any similar role.

Again with addressing things I didn’t say. What is with you? Point to where I said all teachers should be eliminated.

You are saying that parents can take over the teachers' job with as much success, and that teachers are meant to walk into the classroom, blab for a length of time and walk out. Both are inaccurate, as well as disrespectful to the people who dedicate their lives to imparting knowledge.

As for the extent of parent/teacher interface, as I said, you obviously have no experience of systems where the two actually work in tandem. It's okay - you can't help not knowing what you don't know.

You are in the UK, right? Perhaps there, it is the teachers job to raise someone else’s child. Not so much here or anywhere my kids will ever live.

Kerdy, does it surprise you? Have you seen the UN's "Rights of the child"? Parental rights are being attacked at every turn.

Children belong to their FAMILIES. They do not belong to the state, to the schools, or anyone else. Their upbringing lies entirely on the shoulders of the family. Parents can be as successful as professional teachers. I would argue in many cases more so, since they know their children more intimately than any adult could dream given just one school year. Look at Montessori education, where children stay with a teacher for 2 years, or their entire career. It's a legitimate educational technique. As a parent, I'm quite confident that Arachne could educate her children far better than most of their teachers. Does that translate to the same expertise educating other children? Not quite. I'm not saying she is a poor teacher, I'm saying she can't know these kids the way she does her own.

No one is arguing that the teaching profession be abolished. Many families utilize both private and public schools. That is their choice, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. We are arguing that we can do the job just as well and better if we choose to. However, Arachne seems to be arguing that to a child, a teacher and parent are no different. That is insane. I would think that kind of rhetoric would only spring forth from the lips of a "child-free" know-it-all activist.

It seems to me as if she is arguing the role of parent can be abolished. That leaves an ice cold chill in the pit of my stomach. It is wrong. It is evil. Parents, not educators, were given the guardianship of these small souls. I will not even flirt with the idea of dumping the responsibility that God gave to ME on educators who can take the place of parents.

Before I'm slammed. I am in no way saying that is what anyone is doing. But the idea that schools can take the place of families is wrong. Families may use them because it is what works best in their situation, which is a nonissue. But, it should never, ever, take the role or responsibility of parents.

I truly hope that isn't what is being said. But, boy-howdy does it read that way.

As a parent, I'm quite confident that Arachne could educate her children far better than most of their teachers. Does that translate to the same expertise educating other children? Not quite. I'm not saying she is a poor teacher, I'm saying she can't know these kids the way she does her own.

My record says I was a good teacher to other people's children. But despite my degrees and my experience, educating my son myself would be an utter disaster, for both of us. Take my word on that.

I'm sure some parents can do a better job than some teachers. Most can't. It takes much more than good intentions and a textbook to teach successfully. I distrust DIY education for the same reason I wouldn't have DIY medicine or DIY law.

You're certainly entitled to consider any teacher involvement in a child's upbringing beyond the strictly academical component intrusive. Me, having been a student, a teacher and a parent in systems where home and school collaborate, I wouldn't have it any other way.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

As a parent, I'm quite confident that Arachne could educate her children far better than most of their teachers. Does that translate to the same expertise educating other children? Not quite. I'm not saying she is a poor teacher, I'm saying she can't know these kids the way she does her own.

My record says I was a good teacher to other people's children. But despite my degrees and my experience, educating my son myself would be an utter disaster, for both of us. Take my word on that.

I'm sure some parents can do a better job than some teachers. Most can't. It takes much more than good intentions and a textbook to teach successfully. I distrust DIY education for the same reason I wouldn't have DIY medicine or DIY law.

You're certainly entitled to consider any teacher involvement in a child's upbringing beyond the strictly academical component intrusive. Me, having been a student, a teacher and a parent in systems where home and school collaborate, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Arachne, what is your response to ambatzoglou: "However, Arachne seems to be arguing that to a child, a teacher and parent are no different."?

Your part about a collaboration between student/teacher/parent is of interest, and probably the best option, but the nuts and bolts of it bear consideration. First, is this a voluntary collaboration? I am very uncomfortable with children being taken from their parents if they don't tow the line, as the school draws it. I think that if a parent wants the teacher to play a larger role in their child's life this can be a good thing. But ultimately, it really has to be up to the family. I had a number of teachers who were great inspirations to me, and all of them were very professional about it. None of them tried to be anything other than my teacher, and I learned a lot from them in this regard. My brother had a teacher in college who has become almost an uncle to him. But he wasn't trying to replace our father, he was just adding additional insight that often involved things outside of the classroom.

I think with small children the distinction between parent and teacher is especially important. It should be the right of the parent to raise the child as they see fit. Once in high school or college the child needs to be able to make his own choices. If the teacher is spewing malarkey at least the child has a solid upbringing to help him identify it.

As a parent, I'm quite confident that Arachne could educate her children far better than most of their teachers. Does that translate to the same expertise educating other children? Not quite. I'm not saying she is a poor teacher, I'm saying she can't know these kids the way she does her own.

My record says I was a good teacher to other people's children. But despite my degrees and my experience, educating my son myself would be an utter disaster, for both of us. Take my word on that.

I'm sure some parents can do a better job than some teachers. Most can't. It takes much more than good intentions and a textbook to teach successfully. I distrust DIY education for the same reason I wouldn't have DIY medicine or DIY law.

You're certainly entitled to consider any teacher involvement in a child's upbringing beyond the strictly academical component intrusive. Me, having been a student, a teacher and a parent in systems where home and school collaborate, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Arachne, what is your response to ambatzoglou: "However, Arachne seems to be arguing that to a child, a teacher and parent are no different."?

Parents and teachers are complementary. Which can't happen if the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Your part about a collaboration between student/teacher/parent is of interest, and probably the best option, but the nuts and bolts of it bear consideration. First, is this a voluntary collaboration? I am very uncomfortable with children being taken from their parents if they don't tow the line, as the school draws it. I think that if a parent wants the teacher to play a larger role in their child's life this can be a good thing. But ultimately, it really has to be up to the family. I had a number of teachers who were great inspirations to me, and all of them were very professional about it. None of them tried to be anything other than my teacher, and I learned a lot from them in this regard. My brother had a teacher in college who has become almost an uncle to him. But he wasn't trying to replace our father, he was just adding additional insight that often involved things outside of the classroom.

I think with small children the distinction between parent and teacher is especially important. It should be the right of the parent to raise the child as they see fit. Once in high school or college the child needs to be able to make his own choices. If the teacher is spewing malarkey at least the child has a solid upbringing to help him identify it.

It's obviously a cultural thing. Why immediately bring up social services and taking children into care? Can't you even imagine a middle ground? I'm not being snarky or baiting, just baffled.

Now, my experience as both a parent and a teacher is that children can exhibit very different behaviours at school and at home. Not necessarily a good side and a bad side, just different (most likely a quiet side and a social side). Children haven't learned to modulate their behaviour in order to present a more or less consistent face in any situation, like adults do. So yes, teachers do see aspects of a child's character that the parents don't. Should the parents be kept in the dark about that? Should that aspect be suppressed?

Also, most parents have at least one massive blind spot about their children - something that they either don't notice or are in denial about. Children learn very quickly to manipulate their parents to get what they want. Teachers are less prone to such manipulation. That is, in fact, very often at the root of the conflict between parents and teachers: the parents' refusal to acknowledge that there may be something about their children that they can't see.

So, where do we draw the line of teacher involvement? Is it their business to comfort an upset child and/or try to find what's wrong with them? Is it their business to discipline a child that refuses to obey school rules? Is it their business to call in the parents to discuss any issues with their child? Is it their business to refer them to professionals that would address health or learning issues?

I would answer yes, yes, yes and yes, and I honestly wonder why parents over there seem to consider such actions threats to their authority.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

As a parent, I'm quite confident that Arachne could educate her children far better than most of their teachers. Does that translate to the same expertise educating other children? Not quite. I'm not saying she is a poor teacher, I'm saying she can't know these kids the way she does her own.

My record says I was a good teacher to other people's children. But despite my degrees and my experience, educating my son myself would be an utter disaster, for both of us. Take my word on that.

I'm sure some parents can do a better job than some teachers. Most can't. It takes much more than good intentions and a textbook to teach successfully. I distrust DIY education for the same reason I wouldn't have DIY medicine or DIY law.

You're certainly entitled to consider any teacher involvement in a child's upbringing beyond the strictly academical component intrusive. Me, having been a student, a teacher and a parent in systems where home and school collaborate, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I believe that you were a good teacher.

But there is 1 thing. Public school is void of God. According to the scriptures we are to "train our children up in the Lord". Also, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge". Public school is pretty void of the Lord, and certainly can't teach the fear of him.

Whereas a teacher could teach my 4 year old to read "cat", our curriculum's first word was "god".

Also, a childless teacher does not have skin in the game. They know nothing of child rearing unless they have raised a child, adopted a child, etc.

They see the children at school, yes. They may even know of their life some. They may even be willing to take a bullet for their students... I believe it.

But it is still not rearing a child.

Children have a different attitude & way in school than they have at home. There are just things a parent understands that a teacher without children can't.

True example. Family food poisoning. 4 of my children at that time all got food poisoning from a family function. They were THROWING UP their guts. We went through every blanket, bedding, etc., for hours and hours we were cleaning up barf. Suddenly my wife started to not feel well. She started throwing her guts up. I felt a rumble.... Uh oh... I started throwing up my guts.

Newborn baby was fine & happy. Everybody else laid out seriously. But as a parent, in weakness you stand up and clean their barf. You dump their barf bowl in the toilet, then barf right behind it as its flushing. Then turn around because your guts are emptying out the other side. Walk out about to pass out to learn 2 of your children barfed on the carpet.

Sicker than sick you strive on. Newborn needs feeding... Newborn diapers... More barf. You barf. Spouse barfs. Goes on for two days... You just gotta keep going.

Teacher - Calls in sick.

A teacher is a job, yes a job of love, but one that can be left.A parent is a parent forever, with sacrifice in every facet.

What does this have to do with education? Everything... As a parent you will do anything you can for your child. You can't escape and must strive on. Your children are bonded with you and can learn from you in an unbiased, non-judgmental, and without peer pressure setting.

If you don't understand something while teaching, you learn it and teach them. Behavior issues are nil because the paddle is in the next room. God is present in the education.

The person who will catch your barf with their hands to not get it on the carpet until the child makes it to the toilet..... That's the definition of a parent. LOL Children trust their parents more than hired teachers.

As a parent, I'm quite confident that Arachne could educate her children far better than most of their teachers. Does that translate to the same expertise educating other children? Not quite. I'm not saying she is a poor teacher, I'm saying she can't know these kids the way she does her own.

My record says I was a good teacher to other people's children. But despite my degrees and my experience, educating my son myself would be an utter disaster, for both of us. Take my word on that.

I'm sure some parents can do a better job than some teachers. Most can't. It takes much more than good intentions and a textbook to teach successfully. I distrust DIY education for the same reason I wouldn't have DIY medicine or DIY law.

You're certainly entitled to consider any teacher involvement in a child's upbringing beyond the strictly academical component intrusive. Me, having been a student, a teacher and a parent in systems where home and school collaborate, I wouldn't have it any other way.

But there is 1 thing. Public school is void of God. According to the scriptures we are to "train our children up in the Lord". Also, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge". Public school is pretty void of the Lord, and certainly can't teach the fear of him.

The purpose of public school is to provide equal educational opportunities to all students, regardless of religious affiliation. Religious instruction belongs to family, community and Church. I would strenuously object to my son being dragged into Protestant ways at school.

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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Glad to see there are people out there who want to control all aspects of their childrens' lives and also want to be called parents.

This defines almost all parents.

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"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Glad to see there are people out there who want to control all aspects of their childrens' lives and also want to be called parents.

This defines almost all parents.

Consider the source

I know.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 08:34:12 AM by Cyrillic »

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"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

I did all three and I never really learned much either way. Oddly enough, my conversion is what led to me learning the most because of how curious it got me about history, which, in turn led to sociology, and politics.

I have a unique perspective because I work in a public middle school that serves an upper middle class neighborhood in order to pay the tuition ( ) for my sons to go to a Roman Catholic high school. I enter the public classroom as an educator, parent and Orthodox Christian who went to public school during the 1960s and 70s.

The differences I see from when I attended school are quite striking. First, one of the most notable differences is many of the teachers in their 30s and 40s are not quite as literate or have the same level of skills in writing as the the teachers from when I attended school. I have had some of the teachers I work with ask me to write their emails or edit papers for them because they considered me more qualified. I was always an average writer among my peers and I am not an English major so these requests secretly appalled me.

The other thing of note is the curriculum changes I have observed. While I am inclined to admit the math curriculum seems to have improved, I would say science and history have suffered a great deal because of the political agenda coming from the left that has a stranglehold on west coast schools.

Global warming, I mean climate change, is accepted has gospel and for a few years Al Gore's, "Inconvenient Truth," was shown over and over again until each grade had seen it at least 3 to 4 times during their internment in middle school. Labs are few and far between. Instead, movies like, "Darwin's Dangerous Ideas," are thrown in to not so subtlety undermine a young adolescents faith.

Medieval history has suffered from the sins of omission and exaggeration in order to pronounce the Islamic time period as the epitome of civilization and the kindest of all conquerors. Context for the Crusades is swept away along with any mention of Charles Martel. Historical inaccuracies abound in the curriculum, known as the History Alive Series which is also known for its lack of rigor.

Socially, it is not acceptable to behave as a boy, because boyhood is deemed as dangerous and criminal. Football during lunch may cause injuries and is forbidden and arm wrestling is an act which can bring the penalty of a detention. Boys must be socially molded to behave like feminized eunuchs or face harsh consequences. My own son, when he was in third grade said, "Mommy, if they read Charlotte's Web

to me one more time, I think I am going to scream. Why can't we read any stories about boys?"

The other big change coming to public education is the Common Core Curriculum. This nationwide program will be used in 45 states. One of the saddest and most frightening goals of this new program is to eliminate a large percentage of literature from English classes and to replace it with fact-based reading material. Any observant bystander would question the wisdom in such a significant change when one realizes math, history, and science provide plenty of opportunity to become a proficient fact-based reader. But it is only in English class, where one has the luxury of reading literature that spans the literate time period of man's history. And it is only when one is taught to analyze the writings of various writers through the ages and from various cultures that one can fine tune the critical thinking skills a person needs to survive in today's world.

One other important side note, more emphasis will be placed on being a good citizen of the world versus a patriotic citizen of our nation. We don't have one world government yet, but the curriculum seems to be aiming for that goal. Parents beware.