As a Republican and strong McCain supporter in 2000, I was disappointed and saddened in 2004 when McCain permanently traded in his maverick credentials and sold out his principles to support George W. Bush. I now find it equally disturbing to see him gamble our security and future with a reckless choice for a running mate.

Gov. Sarah Palin clearly has a bright future in politics. She may even have the depth and diversity of experience to be a vice-presidential candidate four years from now.

The McCain ticket, with all of its newfound "freshness" and despite all of the claims, has quickly devolved into the politics-as-usual that we have come to expect in the last eight years. McCain and Palin quickly emerged from the rhetoric of their convention as the uniters of dividers.

I talk politics with a lot of people from all walks of life. I find it compelling that many of the ordinary Republicans I talk to understand that their families cannot afford another four years like the last eight. We all deserve better.

They certainly are very broadminded up there in Lebanon, Pennsylvania allowing a staunch Republican and former McCain support to chair the County Democratic Committee. My my....and all without stress or argument at their meetings, I'm sure.

However, its far worse when a presidential candidate and vp candidate tell blatant lies.

I know whatcha mean, Dave. Obama and Biden are both such liars. From lies about Bill Ayers to not listening to a word in church for 20 years. What are ya gonna do with those liars, besides vote them down?

The Clinton's were, after all, right the whole time. Obama is unelectable.

The line is crossed when a factual statement is made that can easily be disproved. And after being disproved the candidate continues to repeat it over and over again. This seems to be the Bush/Rove/McCain/Palin strategy.

I don't see what's so unbelievable about this sudden conversion. As a lifelong Democrat, social progressive, advocate for choice, and atheist I too have experienced a political epihpany. Sure I voted for Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Heart, Gore, Clinton, and Biden but Obama? Sorry the man is unready to lead this country. In times of crisis like this I want someone with a sure hand on the rudder, someone who knows what they're doing from day one - not someone who's picking up the phone every five minutes to ask "What do I do now?", and certainly not someone who didn't think they were qualified to do the job just months before announcing their candidacy. So this life long Democrat is voting for McCain, and I hope all my Democratic brothers do as well.

I think you are missing a fundamental point: Clay's being snarky. (Could be that I'm missing it, and he's serious. Oh, noes!) Anyway, the point I was getting at is that the constant name-calling of Republicans by Democrats (name the last Republican candidate for President not considered stupid, a liar or both) has lost the power of those words. Were Tricky Dick to come back reincarnated, most people would blow off everything the Democrats would accuse him of, simply because we've heard worse about so many Republicans over the years.

Try either citing facts. For example, if you feel that McCain or Palin lied, show that a) they made a materially false statement — an exaggeration of matter of opinion does not count, unless you want to judge Obama by the same standard, which your comment #14 indicates you do not — and b) they knew at the time that they made the statement that it was false. For extra credit, if you intend to use the "dishonorable" line of attack, show also that the alleged lie was for personal gain or was a disparagement of the good reputation of someone else.

You're assuming Dave will see any sense of reason in your approach, Jeff.

Dave's playing a game here. He's implied "Bush lied" so many times (Bush, McCain, depends on the subject of the post). After what were once clear accusations, he's now resorted to mere implications, that [insert implied Republican] lied. When someone counters it by using his own words, Dave demands verifiable proof that his guy lied. (After all, his was just an implication, and yours ... well, thems fightin' words!)

I presented to him proof of one such lie and to this day he continues to ignore it. As a matter of fact, that's when he changed from accusation to implication.

That there are distortions, mischaracterizations and outright lies in these campaigns is not news to any of us. To Dave the only ones capable of outright lies are republicans.

Oh, please. You obviously don't give a shit about credibility here. You're a shill for Obama. You will deny every shred of evidence that points you away from him. No, you do your own investigation, asshole. I'm not doing your heavy lifting. You start with O'Reilly's interview and you listen very carefully about what Obama says concerning his relationship with Ayers. It was just a casual relationship? Please, that is so easily debunked it's laughable. Then listen to ewaht he says about his membership and attendance at Trinity. He's betting that if he says he only attended about 50% of the time that he can claim that it was that 50% over 20 years that Wright didn't say anything incendiary.

Do your own research. And then, for once in your miserable life, come to your own conclusion. You know, try having an original thought.

He said "as a Republican and strong McCain supporter in 2000". It's now 8 years later. You've done nothing to disprove his statement.

Bwahahahaha!

Now, let's play a game. Let's substitute Obama for McCain and Democrat for Republican. Now you're going to be all progressive and 'thenthitive' and tell us that it wouldn't make a difference. But, the rest of us reading here know that you would be lying. And your denials will make you look all the more dishonest.

The Daves and Lee Wards and Paul Hoosons of the world don't bother me. They live in a world of evil Republicans and saintlike Democrats.

Why I bet that none of that ilk would recognise the irony that Ron White, the originator so far as I know of the expression, "You can't fix stupid," was arrested for having 3 grams of weed in his luggage.

It is all about double standards; "We can lie and misrepresent because our cause is worthy unlike that of the evil Republicans." And the Daves of the world are unfortunately not just isolated to the Democrats. The Republicans have their fair share as well. The difference is that the Republicans throw their crooks under the bus and the Democrats try to get theirs elected again.

Hey Dave, want some examples?

Finally, am I the only one who read, I mean really read Tarsa's email address, or was it just posted that way as a joke?

"Lecturing the public on what's "true" and what's a "lie" (when the truth isn't 100% clear) plays into some of the worst stereotypes about liberals--that they are preachy know-it-alls hiding their political motives behind a veneer of objectivity and respectability. . . .

"When Obama was asked about Ayers by George Stephanopolus Barack said he was someone who happened to live in his neighborhood, was a professor of English and didn't exchange ideas with him "on a regular basis.

But Obama told Fox News' O'Reilly a different story that was allowed to pass unchallenged. Bill O'Reilly demonstrated he had not done his homework on this matter. Obama said he knew Bill Ayers from his work on education-Ayers is a professor of education, something Obama seemed to know very well. That he met him early in his time in Chicago dating from the 1980s, that he proposed a bill in the Illinois state senate on violent youth offenders that Ayers advocated, and that they regularly worked for years on the Woods Fund exchanging ideas and providing grants."

Medusa, you gave dave (our dearly departed) a lot more than he deserved, but I'm afraid it seems his thread broke. Oh dear...

I'm sure he'll still read Wizbang for a day or two though before he loses interest. Rest assured, he'll see your comment and stick his thumbs in his ears, wiggle his fingers and make faces at his monitor.