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I really dislike Chandler Jones. And I just don't get why people like Doug Martin better than David Wilson and Lamar Miller especially for the Giants.* *
[/quote]

Why dont you like Chandler Jones? IMO, he is another Tuck. I dont like how he shot up the boards though. He was a 3rd rounder after last season. Now he is a 1st rounder?

And We WILL NOT draft a TE with the #1 pick, unless we trade back.

[/quote] I think that's why he doesn't like Chandler Jones ... he's been over hyped of late. I'm not a huge fan either ... decent guy but he doesn't have the athleticism that Tuck has, nor the elite pass rush skills the Giants cherish. i tend to agree with you about the TE position ... I don't see the Giants drafting one in the first but Reese still has a small enough draft sampling to surprise us I think. I equate it to us drafting Nicks in the first round in 2009. Obvious need, obvious value.[/quote]

Thats why I'm hoping he goes with Wilson or Doug Martin.* He has shown a willingness to go with need.* He went KP in 08 and Nicks in 09.* The last two drafts however have been BPA.* Only because our targeted guys were gone.* (at least in '10 with Mclain)[/quote]

Yep yep.

Although I don't think JPP was BPA (Iupati was concensus BPA at the time of our pick AND a need). JPP was more potential then anything else.

But boy they got that one right.

I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

Re: Giants Top 5 Targets for Round 1...... bank it!

[quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="nycsportzfan"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kase-1"][quote user="Morehead State"] If Jonathan Martin is there I think we would snap him up in a heartbeat.

Best chance of the 5 is probably Still and then Martin.

[/quote]To play what position, we already have Will Beatty as our starting LT and Jon Martin is strictly an LT, or at least from what ive read/seen on tape
[/quote]

[/quote] See Prince Amukumura when you all ready have Webster, TT, Ross, B.Johnson, as your top 4 CB's.. I think your right if Johnathan Martin is on the board, the giants will pounce.. I also think he will be fine to play RT in the NFL, if thats where we decide to try him... Actually, there are some people out there that think Martin is a RT in the pros, due to his having troubles at times with Speed rushers.. Also, i've read where people think bringing him along at RT, and refining his game to the pros before shifting em to the blind side..Hes a fantastic run blocker, and i just think it'd be to much value for reese to pass up if hes on the board..[/quote]

That was my argument to Kase. I think you should draft BPA even if we don't have an immediate need. I loved the Prince pick last year, and like most of us, I was watching his drop as he fell to us.

He was claiming that we have Beatty so why draft a potential LT. I was only suggesting that he was being inconsistent. For the record, Will Beatty has proven nothing at all. LT is a huge question mark for us.

I can't think of a single player we could draft that would start for us week one. Unless we have another rash of injuries. But in the TE matter, I just don't see a need, not because we have players ahead of him, but because its not what our team, given our style, needs.

[/quote] Well offensive line rarely garners a first round consideration barring some huge value (which most likely won't be there this year). Beatty hasn't proven he's a HoFer true, but he has proven he can protect Eli, at least in the short term. Martin has less upside then Beatty (not as athletic and poor Combine) coming out of college. He's just more polished and played againt a better level of competition / in a better program than Beatty (hence his slightly higher draft grade). Of course I wouldn't mind if someone could teach him to run block a tad better (or at all). #1 picks who could realistically start for us in 2012: Doug Martin / David Wilson as our #2 RB behind AB. Of course you could say this about a few other RBs lower down the draft as well (LaMichael James, Robert Turbin, Chris Polk, etc ...). Coby Fleener is the only TE that realistically could start for us this year. Dwayne Allen doesn't fit our system and the rest aren't polished enough to realistically be a starting TE in 2012 (that's not saying we couldn't force feed a TE like we did with Ballard, but you get the point). Kendall Wright or Ruben Randall as our #3 WR. I don't see us going in that direction however and the value really isn't there (imo). Those are the only three I see. You could make the arguement for a Donta Hightower / Zach Brown as MLB but I think they'd have to be a huge standout to derail the Giants' plans on putting Boley at MLB this year.[/quote]

Its not that Beatty isn't a proven HOF'r. Its that he's not a proven LT in the NFL.

And if we want to really make a splash in the draft, we should put Osi in a package with some picks and move up to pick Kuechly. But thats just me thinking out loud.

Ultimately I think its all talk because given our position I would be willing to bet we go D line. Either a DE that drops or Still. I hope I'm wrong because our rushing attack is a big problem and I would love to see us address it. I prefer Wilson but I would also be happy with Martin from BS.

[/quote] No way we package one of our best pass rushers for an MLB. I'd be less surprised if the Pope admitted to being an agnostic. Default position says the Giants go defensive line, I agree. I also agree that our run game needs a huge boost (both on the Oline and the RB position). I'd be very surprised if we go RB in the first (just as I'd be surprised if we go TE in the first), but I'd love to see it just the same. I wouldn't be upset with Amini Silatolu in the first or Keleche Osemele in the second. Both have the versatility to play OG or OT which the Giants love. I'm on the fence about Beatty. I disagree with you about him not showing anything. To me he's shown that he can be a pass protector in the NFL which is key to the LT position. He hasn't shown that he can be a complete LT yet (his run blocking is for caca). Given that, I can see the Giants going for an athletic speciman project (hence Silatolu or Osemele). I think Jonathan Martin, Mike Adams and Zebrie Sanders are highly rated traps in this draft.[/quote]

Honestly I know nothing about Jonathan Martin except what I hear on TV. So you could very well be right about him. I just think we have a LT problem. Can Beatty pick up his game and also demonstrate that he can stay on the field? I hope so. I'll be honest with you, I love the Huskies but UConn guys have tended to dissapoint in the NFL.

And Adams will probably drop far in this draft. If he's there in the third, maybe he's a good pick. And as far as I know the FO likes our developing O lineman and Brewer for instance may be a possibility at RT. Not sure. i just know our running game was bad last year and right now it looks worse this season. RB's are one of the few positions that can contribute right away.

I really dislike Chandler Jones. And I just don't get why people like Doug Martin better than David Wilson and Lamar Miller especially for the Giants.
[/quote]

Why dont you like Chandler Jones? IMO, he is another Tuck. I dont like how he shot up the boards though. He was a 3rd rounder after last season. Now he is a 1st rounder?

And We WILL NOT draft a TE with the #1 pick, unless we trade back.

[/quote] I think that's why he doesn't like Chandler Jones ... he's been over hyped of late. I'm not a huge fan either ... decent guy but he doesn't have the athleticism that Tuck has, nor the elite pass rush skills the Giants cherish. i tend to agree with you about the TE position ... I don't see the Giants drafting one in the first but Reese still has a small enough draft sampling to surprise us I think. I equate it to us drafting Nicks in the first round in 2009. Obvious need, obvious value.[/quote]

Thats why I'm hoping he goes with Wilson or Doug Martin. He has shown a willingness to go with need. He went KP in 08 and Nicks in 09. The last two drafts however have been BPA. Only because our targeted guys were gone. (at least in '10 with Mclain)

[/quote] Yep yep. Although I don't think JPP was BPA (Iupati was concensus BPA at the time of our pick AND a need). JPP was more potential then anything else. But boy they got that one right.[/quote]

I heard Tenn. was taking him if we didn't.I would consider him BPA because he certainly wasn't a position of need at the time.

Re: Giants Top 5 Targets for Round 1...... bank it!

[quote user="slipknottin"]I still dont understand the HB love. Doug Martin is not that much better a player than a guy like Cyrus Gray, or Edwin Baker, guys who are 3rd or 4th round picks. If you are drafting in the first you want to get a rare player, a guy who isnt only slightly better than other players at his position in later rounds.[/quote]

Re: Giants Top 5 Targets for Round 1...... bank it!

[quote user="Morehead State"]

How much better is Fleener than Dwayne Allen?[/quote]

Well I expect Allen to be drafted not long after Fleener, maybe 15 picks later or so. If Dwayne Allen was a 5th round prospect, and him and Fleener were about the same talent wise (i dont think they are) then I would be arguing for Allen in later rounds.

Re: Giants Top 5 Targets for Round 1...... bank it!

[quote user="slipknottin"]I still dont understand the HB love. Doug Martin is not that much better a player than a guy like Cyrus Gray, or Edwin Baker, guys who are 3rd or 4th round picks.

If you are drafting in the first you want to get a rare player, a guy who isnt only slightly better than other players at his position in later rounds.[/quote]

So untrue.

Martin is heads and tails better then all cut back runners in this draft with the possible exception of David Wilson.

Put them next to eachother and Martin definitely blows away the competition (and the only reason he isn't the #1 back is because Richardson has both ability and prototypical size (and I think Martin actually may win here if he proves to be another MJD or Ray Rice).

I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

Re: Giants Top 5 Targets for Round 1...... bank it!

[quote user="Kruunch"]
So untrue.

Martin is heads and tails better then all cut back runners in this draft with the possible exception of David Wilson.

Put them next to eachother and Martin definitely blows away the competition (and the only reason he isn't the #1 back is because Richardson has both ability and prototypical size (and I think Martin actually may win here if he proves to be another MJD or Ray Rice).[/quote]

I just disagree. I watch them all and I see nothing special about Wilson or Martin compared to the later backs. Slightly better players yes, but not that much better.

Im not the only one who feels this way either - "Want a RB at 32? Several scouts tell me there's equal value in several RBs being projected as second-, third-, and even later-round picks." - Vacchiano

Re: Giants Top 5 Targets for Round 1...... bank it!

[quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Kruunch"] So untrue. Martin is heads and tails better then all cut back runners in this draft with the possible exception of David Wilson. Put them next to eachother and Martin definitely blows away the competition (and the only reason he isn't the #1 back is because Richardson has both ability and prototypical size (and I think Martin actually may win here if he proves to be another MJD or Ray Rice).[/quote] I just disagree. I watch them all and I see nothing special about Wilson or Martin compared to the later backs. Slightly better players yes, but not that much better. Im not the only one who feels this way either - "Want a RB at 32? Several scouts tell me there's equal value in several RBs being projected as second-, third-, and even later-round picks." - Vacchiano[/quote]

Thats really hard to tell. Ray Rice went in the second and I actually thought going into his last season at Rutgers he would come out as the #1 pick in the draft.

Decent backs are very common and therefore not especially valuable. Great backs are huge on an NFL team. If a GM thinks a guy can be great, they should take him early if they have to.