Sorry but I don't have an answer for you. However, I am very interested in the answer to your problem cause I've been concerned about this very thing. I would like to upgrade to the Xtreme motors but I have heard the 3 in 1's can be pushed beyond their limits. But I don't know that to be true; it's just something I read somewhere.

Anyone have experience with this???

jsscratch

07-09-2011 07:03 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Hello,

Did you already solved your problem? I just ordered the 2 380BL xtreme motors for my Big lama as well. I red on the internet that more have this same problem with the 3 in 1 mixer. It looks like it that this 3 in 1mixer can't handle the current from the xtreme motors.
I think the solution is to buy a better 3 in 1 or maybe even a 4 in 1 receiver which can handle the currents from these strong motors. The problem is that i have no idea which one that will be. Maybe you or someone else can help us with that.
When you know more about it i would love to hear key to this annoying problem.

Grtz jesper

erdnuckel2

07-09-2011 07:44 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

If this is a common problem, the solutionn is to ditch the 3in1 altogether!! It is possible to go boardless with brushed motors as well ... noone says you have to do a brushless conversion to go boardless. Just get two brushed motors ESCs with the adequate amperage and a coax mixer and a gyro ... other people have done this, sadly of the ones who did, I only know 1 person who actually detailed this (SHARED) with other fellow pilots (and I will always commend him for doing so ...)

jsscratch

07-09-2011 07:51 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

So than you have 3 loose parts, mixer, gyro and esc? Do you have any idea which brushed motor ESC's and mixer and gyro will work good for the big lama?

erdnuckel2

07-09-2011 03:31 PM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

if i remember right, this here is the one the one person who detailed this used for his brushed boardless Walkera 400d (and those motors are 390motors) so they should fit fine for the BOL:

As far as the mixer goes, you really dont have too many choices - the only TRUE commercially available coaxmixer is made by Dionysus Design ( http://www.dionysusdesign.com/produc...roducts_id/185 ) and as for the gyro ... I am not really sure - but that should be pretty much "open choice" ...

Otherwise to all I know the setup basically follows the one for brushless motors ...

jsscratch

07-10-2011 01:51 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

<hr />Ok thanks for the information!
I think its so weird. All over the internet they sell those xtreme 380 BL motors for the big lama. I mean this one http://www.xtreme-production.com/xtr...&amp;Itemid=31
but i dont read a lot of people who actually use it and when i do read something about it they say that it burns your 3 in 1. Weird because its actually made for the big lama.
Anyways thanks for the tips, i might work this out.
1 more question, i see that the two esc's both need a battery plug in. Is it alright to just put them together and fit them both on 1 battery? Wouldnt that suck the battery down more quickly?
And what im also thinking about is if there is stil more power? I mean the xtreme motors are a bit more powerfull, maybe 20% or something but by adding those esc's, mixer and gyro you add a lot more weigt so you might loose that bit of extra power in the added weight and drown the battery quicker. Then whats the point of doing all this?

erdnuckel2

07-10-2011 04:10 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

what people usually do is to take a Y-cable for the ESCs to plug them both to the same battery. Overall, your concerns are right .... you are adding weight which will counteract the increase in power. And you probably reduce the flight-time.
There have been incredibly extended discussions about all this here (on the BOL thread) and even more so in the other forum I am on ... it all boils down to what you are looking for. A lot of people I know time their flights and NEVER really "work" their batteries close to the breaking point.
If you dont fly your heli until the moment when you are FORCED to land, but "systematically", this all looks a little different, as you will have more performance in the SAME time (but again, that is ONLY if you always fly a fixed amount of time and leave ample "reserves")

So to get back to "whats the point" - personally I would say to make the heli "more" than it was before ... how you define that is up to YOU!! (as everybody has a different "pet-peave" with their heli ... for some its bling (like me) ... for some it is fast forward flight, for others maneuverability and for yet others flight time .... TUNING is to OPTIMIZE the abilities of your heli corresponding to your "favorite use" ... that is why it difffers so greatly on how people do that ...)

E2

jsscratch

07-10-2011 04:40 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

hi,
yes your probably right about those things. I think i will just give the 380 xtreme motors a try in the stock 3 in 1 controller. I hope it works and when not and it burns i have seen it for myelf and will try different things like you sad. Just lets hope it will work, it should be actually!

Another thing with the big lame is the blade strikes you have when you push it to the max! I like pushing it to the max and have my extended inner shaft and metal upgrade.

I saw a movie on youtube that there are anti blade strikes blades availeble for the big lama. This means that the bottom blades are a bit shorter. I think i will just shorten some stock blades a little bit to try if this works. Would be great if this is the key to no more blades trikes at all.
Do you have any experience with this? It might change the stability or lift power?

erdnuckel2

07-10-2011 03:41 PM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

personally Ithink those anti-bladestrike blades (if we are talking about the same stuff - and to make sure I would need to see the vid you are talking about ...) are a big pile of something that starts with a B and ends with an S!!

If I had the opportunity to fly my BOLoutside, I would get some Viper450 blads, and would lower the lower rotor head (I can because I use a Skytec head) - that gets you about the same blade plane distance as you get with an Xtreme extended or airy turbo shaft ... however NEITHER the actual shafts NOR the heads will be longer ... and I DONT believe in shortening the lower blades, as this actually decreases your authority on the rotor that is responsible for back/forth and left/right movement ... not a good idea in my book ...

E2

Owner1

07-11-2011 12:26 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Quote:

ORIGINAL: jsscratch

hi,
yes your probably right about those things. I think i will just give the 380 xtreme motors a try in the stock 3 in 1 controller. I hope it works and when not and it burnsi have seen it for myelf and will try different things like you sad. Just lets hope it will work, it should be actually!

Another thing with the big lame is the blade strikes you have when you push it to the max! I like pushing it to the max and have my extended inner shaft and metal upgrade.

I saw a movie on youtube that there are anti blade strikes blades availeble for the big lama. This means that the bottom blades are a bit shorter. I think i will just shorten some stock blades a little bit to try if this works. Would be great if this is the key to no more blades trikes at all.
Do you have any experience with this? It might change the stability or lift power?

Please let us know how the Xtreme Motor upgrade goes, and post periodically about it even if it's just to let us know that you're 3 in 1 is holding up (or not). I'm quite interested in this mod.

As far as blade strikes go, I fly my Big Lama really hard and fast and never get a blade strike anymore. Although there are numerous ways to go about it, you need to increase the distance between the top and bottom blades, shorten your flybar, and use a stiffer blade like the Vipers, or the Lama 400D's cut to fit the Big Lama.

I used an Xtreme inner shaft extension, I shortened the stock flybar by 2" overall, and I used the Lama 400D blades. No more blade strikes for me, even after extending the servo horns to get more cyclic and elevator movement. Take a look at my Youtube channel, Misterman411, if you want to see how hard the BOL can be pushed after these mods. In fact, I have video (not yet edited or posted) showing my Big Lama flying substantially faster than any other video I've yet posted.

<br type="_moz" />

jsscratch

07-11-2011 01:12 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Alright, i will watch your movies, sounds awesome! I'l wait for your new video, i would love to see that!

I will lett you know whatsup with my xtreme motors but it will take probably 1 or 2 more weeks till i have them. I also have to wait for a new outer shaft and frame kit cause they bend and broke:P I probably have them in a few days and then ill try my shortened bottom blades. I also made a 1,5 inch shorter flybar wich i also can try in the next couple of days:)
I got 3d pro blades as well, do you think the 400D blades are better?

So now we have quit the same set up except for the blades but you also say that you have extended servo arms. I'm not sure what you mean with this. Are those the metal pins on the servo arms or are those the white plastic things on teh servo?

jsscratch

07-11-2011 01:32 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

i see, i found out what the servo horns are:) Sounds like even more fun for the BOL. I might do that later after everything is flying stable:)
Your movies are awesome! I thnik i already saw some of them in the last weeks. I see you also use heatsinks. I bought two of them but is it really necessary? Its adding 15 grams of weight or something but i actually never hat overheated motors before i installed the heatsinks. It might be necessary when you push the BOL to the max or when you make multiple flights with more batterys?

raluale

07-11-2011 04:01 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Thanks for all theanswer. I will go back to the original question: what to do tofly the Big Lama with the 380 BL motors?. Do I have to get 3 diferent parts intead of the 3 in 1 unit? 2 ESC , 1 mixer and 1 gyro control. Where do I find these parts and wichare the right one to Big Lama? Is there some other " 3 in 1 unit" from other manufacter with better resistans for high current. As I read on this forum maybe is not worth the effortto use4 units wich encrease the weight of the helli.

<span style="font-size: larger">About blades trikes</span>: I use Hard Main Blader from Xtrem productionupper and lower without shorten them, and extended inner shaft (+15) , Never had blades trikes after these upgrades.

And a dumy question : when you talk about going boardless, do you mean to dich the 3 in 1 and try something else? I'm new on this and I wonder what do you mean withbrushless, boardless, BOL.

Hi Raluale,
Good your back. I hat all the questions as you did. Owner1 gives all the answers you can read above. Yes you need 2 esc's, 1 mixer and a gyro. Or maybe a stonger 3 in 1 but i dont know witch one that would be. Maybe walkera 400D, i have no idea.
Owner1 gave us some links above to sites where you can buy those mixers en ESC's but it might be a lot of extra weight so you loose the extra power in that.

In about 1 - 2 weeksi will get the 380x motors and try them out on the stock 3 in 1. I will let you guys know what happens.

i see, i found out what the servo horns are:) Soundslike even more fun for the BOL. I might do that later after everything is flying stable:)
Your movies are awesome! I thnik i already saw some of them in the last weeks. I see you also use heatsinks. I bought two of them but is it really necessary? Its adding 15 grams of weight or something but i actually never hat overheated motors before i installed the heatsinks. It might be necessary when you push the BOL to the max or when you make multiple flights with more batterys?

In regards to the heat sinks, I put them on my BOL right away, so I don't really know if they're necessary. I was just following the advide of Msteer, who is another fellow with Youtube Big Lama videos. Msteer also is the one who advised to use 3Dpro blades, but when I got going faster I started having blade strikes again. So on the advice of Peter (Pgroom 68 on this site) I tried the Lama 400D blades and found them to be FAR better for sport flying. Apparently, in Peter's testing of blade stiffness, the 3Dpro blades were some of the weakest in that regard. They do very well for making on-board video though, so that's what I'm using my extra sets for. But I will never fly fast with them again. Too many blades strikes and resulting damage.

I think you are wise for waiting to put your extended servo horns on. The longer horns greatly increase your chance of getting blade strikes, so it's better to prove out your setup to make sure you are stable before adding in that other variable. Good luck, and post some video when you get flying again.

Also, it wasn't me with the advice on going boardless. I have no experience with this and only know what I've read. Erdnuckle is the one who posted those answers.

Owner1
<br type="_moz" />

jsscratch

07-12-2011 02:14 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

hi owner1,
yes thats right, it was the other guy who talled us about boeadless.
Anyways, about the blades, i will order the 400d blades on ebay today. The 3d pro blades aren't that stiff indead. I just felt the stock blades and they are actually even more stif but they problably brake quicker. I will test my shorted bottom stock blades soon, lets see what that does. But first i have to wait for my new frame and shaft:P</p>

jsscratch

07-12-2011 08:59 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Alright guys, i got NEWS!!!
Today i got my 380BL extreme motors for the big lama, quicker as i thought, thats good!:) But im soooooo mad right now!!!
Its absolutely rediculous that they sell those motors especially made for the big lama. Those people are corrupt, its insane!!!!
I plugged the motors in the 3 in 1 controller, exactly the way as the stock engines were plugged in. I knew i hat to start easy to run the motors in so i gave only 15-20% throttle. I was just testing, not even flying and not even with wings turning. After 3 minutes my 3 in 1 controller burnt out and the motors strarted to do really weird things!!! If i was flying i would have hata really hard crash and i could spent lots of money in buying new parts!!! How bizar is this. 2 specially made motors for the big lama destroys my controller in 3 minutes without flying and with 15-20% throttle. Im so mad!!!!!!!! Its ridiculous!!! i will sent an email to helidirect where i ordered them because this is insane!!

So guys, dont try this because many people have this same problem.

Anybody have an idea about an stronger 3in 1 controller??

Thank you

Jesper(scratch)

Gotdammit!!!!! i cant stand this!!!!

raluale

07-12-2011 10:47 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri">Hi jsscratch,<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>I &lsquo;m very <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>sorry, <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>but<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>you had to experience it by <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>yourself. As i told before I Burnt the&rdquo; 3 in 1 unit&rdquo; <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>3 times. I understand you very well<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>I sendt <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>e- mail to &ldquo; Miracle mart&rdquo; where I bought the motors <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>and <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>to Xtrem Production and I got contact with a man called Kim who works as support for both company. He said that the motor could be defective, then he send <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>to me<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>2 new motors for free. The same happened again with the 3 in 1 unit and I send <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>e new mail to him. He said that the motors<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>may be were defective (once again). After 3 times I asked him not to send me more motors but the 3 in 1 unit . Unfortunatly the control was out of stock so I have to wait. On one of the e-mail <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>I recived stood &ldquo; </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-HK">but strange, is we seldom receive complaints about this motor&rdquo; <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span><o:p></o:p></span></font></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri">You are right Hi jsscratch. How is that possible that they sell motors <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>specially made for the Big Lama and are not compatible with the 3 in 1 control?. We have to ask them who make this motors (Xtrem production). Maybe they can make a 3 in 1 unit which can support 380BL <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>motors.

</font></font></span></p>

Owner1

07-12-2011 11:25 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

This motor situation really sucks! I feel so bad for both of you guys trying to get these motors working. Thank you for taking the plunge and allowing everyone else to learn from your experience. My hat is off to you gentlemen.

Owner1<br type="_moz" />

jsscratch

07-12-2011 11:53 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Hi, i will try to get a new 3 in 1 controller as well. Its so weird, i mean, dont they test those things????
I emailded helidirect and i hope they can do something for me. Well see.
Lets keep in contact about new information:)

jsscratch

07-13-2011 01:44 PM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

Hello guys,
Helidirect offered me to buy a new 3 in 1 controller with 30% discount. I talled them that this is in my opinion not fair and they agreed. So after all they sent me a new 3 in 1 controller for free. Really happy with this:)
Is there anyone who is interested to buy my 380BL xtreme motors? There brand new! Or maybe some knows another option. I would really like to try them on a better 3 or 4 in 1 controller but i have no idea witch one that could be.
groetjes from Holland</p>

raluale

07-15-2011 08:40 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri">Hello guys!<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri">I &lsquo;v gota new 3 in 1 unit, <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>this time from &ldquo;HeliPal.com&rdquo; in Hongkong.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>So I was happy to fly my Big Lama again, but&hellip; a new problem :<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>I 'v been flying low (just in case) to test the Heli, but something must be wrong with the 3 in 1 unit because it cuts off the power suddenly and the heli goes down. After flashing red and green the unit become green and I can fly again. This happens after 3 or four minutes flying, again and again. Could be the battery of the heli? This is very extrange because I can fly the battery all out, the heli lose the power little by little and I kan land without any damage.

Hello,
I's sorry for you to hear that. These things are always really annoying. I cant tell you what the problem could be. Maybe its overheating of the motor? Are you sure the power to the motors is shut down? You could figger that out with a voltage meter. Just test it without flying and connect a voltage meter and look what happens after 3 - 4 minutes. When you dont see any voltage apparing anymore there must be something wrong with the 3 in 1 controller or reciever.Or maybe the transmitter butyou said thatthis is alright.When there still is normal voltage it must be the motors.

I emailded xtreme production about the case with the 380 xtreme motors and the 3 in1 controller. They have heard this problem before and they think its because esky changed something in the 3 in 1 controllers lost months. I dont know anything else, thats what he told me. He was really respecttfull to offer me a free 3 in 1 controller which is tested on the 380BL xtreme motors. Maybe an older type or something. Anyways, i will recieve this soon and then i can test my xtreme motors again. Hope it wil work this time.

i'll keep you guys up to date.

Owner1

07-15-2011 11:57 AM

RE: Big Lama with 380BL motors from Xtrem production

How long does it take until you can fly again after it goes down? Is it immediately or is there a cooling off period? Also, how old is your BOL? Finally, are the motors hot to the touch after power quits? The reason I ask these questions is that there was an issue with the BOL earlier in the production run that caused the thermal cutout on the motors to get activated too early, and the symptoms are identical to what you're experiencing. The solution was to remove the thermal switch completely and just let the motors get hot. I believe they removed the thermal switch in the later models (like mine that I purchased in November of 2010) but if yours is earlier it may still have the switch. This is actually the reason people started putting heat sinks on the motors. It may be that in switching your motors you've gotten the mesh between the motor pinion and the drive gears too tight, and you have more load on the motors than you did previously. As I sit here thinking of it, that actually seems quite likely.

If you haven't yet, touch the motors and see how hot they are after you get a power shutdown. My motors never get hot, only warm, although that seems to vary some from person to person, from what I've read.

There is a video on Youtube on which a guy video documents this problem, asks for solutions, and is given the explanation

I'm sure there are people on this forum who know all about this. I'm just repeating what I've read.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri">Hello guys!<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri">I &lsquo;v gota new 3 in 1 unit, <span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>this time from &ldquo;HeliPal.com&rdquo; in Hongkong.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>So I was happy to fly my Big Lama again, but&hellip; a new problem :<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Calibri"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>I 'v been flying low (just in case) to test the Heli, but something must be wrong with the 3 in 1 unit because it cuts off the power suddenly and the heli goes down. After flashing red and green the unit become green and I can fly again. This happens after 3 or four minutes flying, again and again. Could be the battery of the heli? This is very extrange because I can fly the battery all out, the heli lose the power little by little and I kan land without any damage.