With all due respect to those of you who voted for this man, fuck you. Humanity, quite literally, could die because you were stupid enough to vote for an ignorant, narcissistic con man who offered you a handful of magic beans, while telling you that you were special, and deserved everything that your non-white neighbors had. You are dumb as fuck. And you deserve what’s coming. Sadly, though, the rest of us do not. So, again, fuck you. Fuck you for electing as our president the leader of an anti-science death cult who has made ours the only country on the entire planet that refuses to acknowledge the very real threat of climate change.

Here’s for what it’s worth… because I don’t have any time right now… is something that I posted this past September, during hurricane season. It seems appropriate. [If you get a chance, go back and read the comments. They’re really good.]

As I write this, there are three hurricanes working their way westward across the Atlantic. They are; Katia, Irma, and Jose. Irma, the one that appears to be the most deadly of the three at the moment, has maintained a sustained windspeed of 185 miles an hour for over 24 hours now, breaking all known records. While the eye of the Category-5 hurricane narrowly missed Puerto Rico, both St. Martin and Barbuda have, according to press reports, been decimated. And it looks as though the Turks and Caicos Islands are next, as the hurricane makes its way toward the Florida coast, where, according to some projections, it could do over $300 billion in damage.

While the destructive power of the hurricane may diminish before it hits Florida, I think it’s fair to say that, at least historically speaking, we shouldn’t be talking about a Category-5 hurricane hitting our coast just a few weeks after having a Category-4 hurricane hitting the same coast. I mean, if they were regular events, they wouldn’t call them “500 year” storms, right? But here we are, in the span of just three weeks, preparing for Hurricane Irma to pick up in Florida where Hurricane Harvey left off in Texas.

One would think, at some point, even in deep red states like Texas and Florida, people might begin to wonder why it is that, in spite of what climate change deniers might tell us, the oceans just keep getting warmer, and these once-in-a-generation weather events keep happening one after the other. I mean, the temperature in San Francisco just hit 106-degrees, forest fires are consuming Oregon, and here we are, preparing to see yet another American coastal city washed out to sea. You would think, at some point, people… especially those losing their homes… might stop worrying about the future of Confederate of monuments and begin to worry instead about the futures of their families. At some point, you would think, these people would have to start turning on those politicians like Senator Mitch McConnell, who, in spite of the evidence, has said, “For everybody who thinks it’s warming, I can find somebody who thinks it isn’t,” and Donald Trump, who has claimed that climate change was nothing more than a “Chinese hoax.”

But, it would appear, we’re still not yet at the tipping point… One just wonders how many people have to die before we get there.

In a sane world, the whole lot of them – all the Republicans who have continued to lie about the science of climate change because it serves them politically – would be run out of D.C. on a rail, but here we are, clapping for our pussy-grabber-in-chief at an oil refinery as yet another hurricane prepares to hit out coast.

I think I’ve probably said it here before, but every climate denier should be held personally accountable for what happened a few weeks ago in Houston, what is likely going to happen tomorrow in Florida, and whatever happens next. They knew damn well what was happening, and they not only chose to do nothing, but they lied, and told people that there was nothing to worry about. They should not only be driven from office, but every one of them should be the subject of a class action suit… Every family who lost a loved one, or a home, should go after these men for damages, as they knowingly perpetuated a lie to serve the financial interests of their campaign donors.

I’m pretty sure I’ve told you this before, but I first became aware of climate change back in ’87, when I lived in Washington, DC. I remember distinctly attending a public event where scientists, politicians and lobbyists weighed in on the subject. (I remember that the lobbyist on the panel said that, even if global warming were true, we’d be able to invent our way out of it. “We’ll make bigger, better air conditioners,” he said, as thought that would somehow make everything alright.) That was 30 years ago, and the scientific evidence was already pretty clear. And who knows how much progress we could have made toward limiting our carbon output if we’d acted decisively back then. Instead, though, we kept propping up the oil and gas industry with subsidies, while fighting against renewables.

But, instead, we’re staring into the eye of Irma, waiting to find out just how many lives are forever ruined.

Paul Ryan said yesterday, “We’ve got another hurricane right now headed to our shores and it’s critical that we act immediately.” Of course, when he said it, he wasn’t referring to the root cause. He wasn’t talking about cutting carbon emissions, of passing a gas tax to encourage a shift to renewables, or an ambitious infrastructure initiative to public a state-of-the-art wind and solar grid across the United States. No, by “act immediately,” he meant “try to dodge the waves and flying debris.” And that’s what passes for leadership in the United States right now… Something has to change, and it has to happen quickly, if humanity is to survive.

I want a list of every member of Congress who has ever denied climate change. All of them, with no exception, need to go. #Irma#Harvey

I know we all have to die, but I don’t want to die because of Fox News, Donald Trump, and the fact that a lot of Americans aren’t media literate. I mean, I can accept a comet coming along and wiping us all out. But it really hurts to think that my kids may die because some stupid racists voted for Trump while others threw their votes away on Jill Stein. It’s not something that sits well with me.

While other countries are going all in on wind and solar, we’re passing laws to allow drilling in ANWR. While other countries are planning for the future, we’re yelling “drill, baby, drill.” And the people yelling it aren’t even people that have a vested interest. It’s not like the own stock in Exxon. They just apparently love kicking sand in the faces of the so-called elite… you know, the people who believe in science and don’t want us all to die.

Lots of educated media literate people voted for Trump, not because they thought he was a wonderful person, but because (R) was after his name. The majority of the people who are more influential than me in the organization where I work voted for Trump, because (R), and certainly none of them are ignorant rubes. The majority of them are also believers in the organization’s public service mission, and I work with them towards that goal, which I also strongly believe in. I’m just not in a position to internally label all these people as “useless f*cks” because I need their help and they need my help to do the job we both need to do.

Yea, and Obama was the fracking king. Thanks to him and the Democrats we are again one of the leading oil producers in the world. Jill Stein had an actual Green program. What is the Democrat program. Platitudes and half measures. Sanders also had Green New Deal , and the Democrats adopted that right. Until people face the fact that we have Trump because of the absolute failure of the Obama and Democrat regime to bring change–we will have more Trump or Pence.

Jcp2 is spot on. Mark apparently doesn’t have a very diverse social or professional life. Not all Trump voters are dumb and angry hicks. Some I know well are highly educated and successful leaders in their chosen fields. They would have voted for Kasich or Rubio or Christie or Cruz or Fiorina or Paul or Bush (literally anyone with an R next to their name) had they been nominated instead.

Make no mistake, I’m well aware that educated people voter for Trump. I know PhDs that voted for Trump. I know leaders of large, respected organizations that voted for Trump. When I used the word “stupid” I didn’t mean to imply they weren’t educated. I meant to imply that they were fucking stupid for not appreciating the very clear threat. Maybe they put their pocketbook ahead of everything else. Maybe, as Jcp2 says, they just pulled the lever out of habit since it had an “R” on it. It doesn’t matter. They ignored the larger danger. And now we’re all paying the price.

True, Trump has wacky ideas and has not conformed to recent Presidential norms of behavior. However, all the meaningful enduring changes that have been passed so far by Congress would have been passed by any Republican congress with the support of any Republican president. Conservative Supreme court justice. Check. Corporate tax rate decrease. Check. Attempt to undo ACA, twice. Kinda check. Drilling in ANWR. Check.

The climate change “debate” is really just a time stall until private energy companies can retrench and redevelop their business portfolios. America does not have a strong government directed national energy and industrial policy. Maybe this is by design, but multinational companies are still subject to influence by foreign rules and regulations, and if there is enough market pressure, they will adapt. Why do most higher end and/or chain restaurants ask about food allergies/sensitivities? Why is Snapple kosher? Why is the standard engine for most cars 2.0 liters?

“The climate change “debate” is really just a time stall until private energy companies can retrench and redevelop their business portfolios. ”

Dream on. Most Plutocrats like the Kocks and the Mercers wealth is in the ground ie. the fossil fuel (coal, oil, natural gas) that they own. We become like Denmark or Portugal and those resources become worthless. There is a reason why the Saudi’s are the US’s best friend, again their wealth suddenly is much less if we go renewable. Market forces have nothing to do with it, other than how much it cost to control our Government. Believing in market forces is pie in the sky nonsense. You might as well believe that aliens or god on high will come and save us. Or that trickle down economics benefits common folks.

I think you nailed it on the head Mark. They are stupid. They are not ignorant, but they believe that if they hoard enough wealth they will be just fine in the world of extreme climate change.

Time is running out. 20 c above average in the Arctic. It will be ice free within just a very few years, maybe as soon as next year or 2020. The Arctic ice controls the jet streams. They have been breaking down. Sunspots and “chem” trails and all the other psuedo science is on par with ” 100 Doctors recommend Camels smokes”. They are using the very same play book they used with first asbestos, then cigarettes. The real science is easy to find.
If we do not demand more from our politicians, like actually confronting the reality that has been obvious to the scientific community for DECADES, we will live in the dystopian world that HW seems to long for.

It is very much humanity vs. the few. If we do not stop emitting co2 for our energy needs ASAP we are in fact dooming the species. We have hit the 2 degree c increase in global temperature that Copenhagen and Paris agreements were aimed at halting. We will be at 4 c increase within the short remaining years of my life.

Once things start heating up it becomes very very difficult to cool things down.
This web page shows you in pretty close to real time actual climate data for the planet. The daily weather anomalies (ie. temp. at the 2 meter level) is very interesting. Of course the base line that they use is already one based on an increased temp. level. The truth is out there and is known

You are engaging in pseudoscience. Pretending climate doesn’t change without industry? Seems pretty easy for the planet to cool down during the beginning of an Ice Age. It comes on fast. That’s what the evidence suggests.

What the hell are you talking about – disprove climate change? How do you think you can do that? There are methods to get clues about climate in pre-modern times. It changes for sure. I said it before but none of you doofuses wanted to understand: Michigan was covered in two (vertical) miles of ice just 20,000 years ago. You are the denialists. TWO MILES of ice…over everything…

7/10 most recent comments by a single commenter. You have never listened to me about kicking out trolls, Mark, but seriously, it’s now a matter of national security that you take the shaping of your community seriously.

I suppose you think your little site is too Local! for the Russkis to care about. You may or may not be right. But those who have swallowed the Russki pill and are trying to fling it in every direction? They are absolutely everywhere. Do your duty, or rightly feel guilt until the (haha literal and immediate) heat death of the planet.

HW, it took 10000 years for the glaciers to melt and recede. It will be less than 50 years for the melting of the polar ice cap. I realize you are a product of our failing educational system, but I assume you know basic math.

Trump is the perfect president for HW. They both spout falsehoods at such a high rate that responded effectively centers their point of view more than it deserves. They also both are relentless in their need to be heard and believed. Again this centers their thinking. This is how it goes with people with personality disorders. They suck up all the energy in any group. Especially when vigorously debated, even when demonstrably wrong, they win, because they get their point of view centered. We must pay attention to the president. We can ignore HW. He is consistently full of shit and does not represent the point of view of most on the right. There is no point in debating him. He’s a troll; it just fuels him.
Our president lies at a rate of 1 in every 24 seconds. Still, he’s no match for his loyal subject HW. And we can choose to ignore HW.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/29/in-a-30-minute-interview-president-trump-made-24-false-or-misleading-claims/?utm_term=.802fd1dba5aa

I should also add that I know quite a few Trump voters. They all watch Fox News exclusively and believe all of it, but they also know enough to be embarrassed about Trumps behavior. They were fooled and they don’t want to believe it, but will see it for what it is soon enough. HW lacks even that capacity. https://youtu.be/hH-wCe5oAv8

Two MILES of ICE…and unless the pattern breaks we are overdue for it to come back. You people are the liar trolls. You are 100% brainwashed by the CIA. “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”

The president essentially proclaimed himself West Virginia’s coal messiah in an interview with the New York Times on Thursday. “I’m the one that saved coal,” he said. “I’m the one that created jobs. You know West Virginia is doing fantastically now.”

The interviewer, reporter Michael S. Schmidt, did not question Trump’s claims. Trump has started the process of repealing numerous environmental regulations that affect coal’s profitability, and that’s led to an expected short-term increase in coal mining and production jobs. But the coal industry is far from secure in the long term—and is in fact “on life support,” as noted by The Washington Post in October:

Weather/Climate is cyclical. Extrapolating long term trends from short term data is not at all scientific. If you are willing to accept correlation as an equivalent to causation, you can prove anything you want. Except it’s bullshit. Don’t expect thinking persons to jump on board when you point to bullshit reasons as justification for the destrucion of our standard of living.

EOS “Don’t expect thinking persons to jump on board when you point to bullshit reasons as justification for the destrucion [sic] of our standard of living.” Do you know just how few people agree with you at this point, EOS??
Addressing energy insecurity and climate change will create the next great new tech fueled economic boom. What kind of pro-free enterprise conservative does not understand the value of industry disruption? What kind of conservative wants to economically protect a bunch of dirty dinosaur (heh) industries that impoverish and kill their workers? EOS, you should get in line behind all the liberal people who fantasize about how great factory and agricultural work was, having never done it. I actually like production labor, and I’ve done a LOT of it, but I no longer do it for a living because it doesn’t provide a living. Also I want to live past 60 if possible. Also I want to be available to my children.

Even Trump cant change the progress being made on climate action, because the free fucking market is invested heavily in new energy and efficiency solutions. Because global neoliberal investment may actually save our asses this time. It would be cool if the government would help that along but it’s not necessary.

PS Natural gas killed coal. The left have been self-righteous hand-wringing idiots on energy as well. They don;t understand how markets work, because they feel morally superior to all that. Meanwhile all their attempts to move the dial via non-tech driven behavior change were completely futile and often only increased energy usage (not to mention predatory global production practices– Where were your re-usable bags made and under what conditions; how about that ‘go green’ t-shirt?) Many of the left are apocalyptic energy segregationists making models to live off the grid and card their own wool. They are proud anti-consumerists with unbeliveable privilege and often pensions of trust funds supported by , what? The market economy.

The worst thing for our earth is for climate action to have become a partisan political football. The only pragmatists in the lot were the giant corporations. I started to realize this when I saw that the Ross Business School was making more progress towards reducing climate and environmental impact than LSA pr SNRE. Then I looked for corporate models and the big corporations (who I hated and have always despised) were the ones with climate impact measurements and climate action plans and new technologies in development. I was a localist, slow food, anti-corporate lefty luddite. That was my orientation. Until I started to work on climate action. I had to concede to what was working and what was working was being implemented by people across all political spectrums– except the self-congratulatory fringes.

Climate change is the most critical issue of our time. It’s a existential crisis for humans. And no one gets any gold stars for addressing it because of their political affiliation. Just as you don;t address racism or sexism by acknowledging it exists and then pointing at others as to blame; you don’t address climate change by blaming the GOP. You definitely don’t address it by trying to topple global corporate interests…

The good news about the markets chugging along despite Trump is that they are working on solutions to climate change without relying on the vagaries of partisan politics to throw them a dime. Trump cant kill us by stopping action to address climate action. He doesn’t have that much power. The rest of the world and many US states and major cities are chugging along on finding solutions. If we all die, it will because people on the left and right chose to bicker and point fingers instead of figuring out how to change the means of production to one that’s sustainable. It will be because they refused to harness the speed and efficiency of capital markets (yes, the same system that got us into this mess) to get us out of this mess. And when we all adopt the new technologies that will finally change our behaviors we will all pat ourselves on the back for being early adopters and yet probably still blame capitalism and corporations for, well, everything.

Government is not speedy or consistent enough a mechanism to provide the necessary climate solutions in time. Neither are grassroots movements. Only the full force and commitment of the free market can do that. Which is why I’m ok with being called a neoliberal. We need solutions and fast. Bring them on global free market.

HW– The Mueller investigation is chugging along. It has been announced that it will not end in early 2018 as Trump predicted but will run at least through the whole year, if not longer. I’m satisfied with the progress that has been made. Much of what has been revealed is information the FBI was keyed into over a year ago but only revealed after charges were made. If Trump is ever charged, it will be a long time coming. And we won;t see all the cards until Mueller decides to show all the cards. So any speculation about outcomes is based on … nothing of substance. We do know that the Russia investigation is far from falling apart or over. It’s Christmas. (Trump saved Christmas, remember? We had almost forgotten about it.) I hope Mueller and co are enjoying some well deserved rest with their families. I expect they have a long year ahead. I’m happy to wait this one out.

I am taking a wait and see what happens approach to Russia and collusion. I am hoping for justice to be served. Whatever that entails. Whoever has to go down. I want corruption to be prosecuted without mercy.

The left would be wise to realize that they can’t let their hatred of Trump to eclipse any sense of Justice they may have had. “Love trumps hate” right?

As sort of a litmus test, in my conversations with liberal friends I like to propose the possibility that Hillary is guilty of many of the things that Trump has been accused of, and so far, at a rate approaching 100%, they act as if, I never made the proposition–it is as if they are incapable of processing the thought. To the credit of most conservatives, they are, for the most part, willing to entertain the thought of Trump’s possible corruption and able to also express that they would want to see Trump locked up if he is actually guilty of some sort of treasonous collusion….

Sad— HW is an abusive humorless prick. I have no idea why you find him funny. Plenty of funny people around these parts. What am I missing?
Your expressions of compassion to an relentless troll while deriding everyone else here is not an expression of your superior compassion but a total lack of empathy. Your salutations etc feel like gaslighting. At minimum they are passive aggressive.

Jesus Jean. Even I liked the sentiment expressed from Sad and I was assuming Sad was putting me down because I have said repeatedly I can often seem unable to determine which comments are a joke and which comments are sincere on mm.com. I am always left wondering if this community is filled people who are brilliant at crafting ironic statements, on the one hand, or if the average poster here is just so lacking in self – awareness that their statements are not brilliant but idiotic instead.

Of course you might be joking. Sad might be joking. TF might be joking….

I don’t always like Jean’s posts, but I value them. Like it or not, IMO she’s right about HW. Nevertheless, I’m happy HW has returned because he’s a perfect ambassador of the ‘delusional moron’ faction of Trump’s base. His reaction to current events is something Mark and his ilk should be grateful to consume in the safety of the comments section of this blog. It’s like he’s delivering carryout from The Conservative Treehouse, so all of you can have a taste of their shitty, deplorable, cuisine in small portions, without having to visit in person yourselves. Think of it as cultural enrichment and be grateful HW is so generous.

Stupid hick— part of me agrees re HW. And I certainly feel that way re EOS. HW’s abusive language and self-aggrandizement are another matter. On one hand, they’re laughable; on the other, they are deeply unpleasant. And they are unpleasant not do much because they sting, but because people that steeped in resentment and bitterness and delusion are depressing.

FF— everyone is an idiot. Everyone is subject to confirmation bias. Discourse is the way to disrupt that. I simply would prefer our voices here from the right were more nuanced and informed. As is, they are merely fulfilling stereotypes. But I am here, because I value the information and the discourse— obviously. That value outweighs the unpleasantness most days.
It should also be acknowledged that anyone willing to actually express an opinion publicly is subjecting their thinking to critique and so, by that fact alone, is doing more to address their own biases than people who remain silent. You have to be willing to be an idiot to become smarter.

So full of hate…It’s weird. I want to understand it so I can dismantle the rationale behind it. I think they are addicted to the feeling they get of hating what they don’t understand (but think they do). They will understand much more soon enough.

FF– She’s a dunce because she pretended to know something she did not know. In a taped interview.
But you know what, if your job is US Ambassador to the fucking UN then I think the least you can do is learn who the 193 United Nations member states are.

IMO this is not a great example of someone being an idiot, but whatever….I thought the immature prankster was claiming that the ficticious island was just now attempting to come into being as an independent state…. It happens…knowing all of the UN nations would not have helped her in that regard…..She was just trying to escape a discussion of a topic she didn’t know about….Rightfully so…

Haha, no no no. There are things happening right now that you won’t believe. I am understating everything to an extreme degree. Remember that feeling of disbelief when Trump won? You are going to have that same feeling but a thousand times stronger when you find out what Trump is doing right under your nose.

I was not shocked when Trump won. Just FYI. I had said early on that he wouldn’t, but as the day approached I could see that we didn’t have the enthusiasm necessary and the other side did. I thought he could win. I wasn’t certain, but it was clear that, strategically, the HRC campaign screwed up in not building campaigns in areas that are critically important to winning the electoral college. Most of the expressions of disbelief that you heard and continue to hear are really dismay that a man so deeply unqualified is running our country, and all that results from that. We understand how he became president and that he holds power. We also knew that was a possibility. We just don;t accept it. That’s different than being fooled. Like you have been.

I’m telling you you are going to have to deal with the reality that you are brainwashed. So much information is going to be released that even you will be forced to admit it. You know how sometimes dumb people think smart people are really dumb? That’s been going on to a ridiculous degree with people like you and MM and all the rest regarding DJT.

Puzzled: Trump’s bellicose approach to North Korea is a dangerous game of chicken, but it may just work out. We’ll see. Still, China owns most of the credit for this. And Trump has been kissing China’s ass, rather then holding their feet to the flames as promised. I think China sees an opportunity to take on a geopolitical super power role that will be quite lucrative for them. It’s pretty much the opposite of what Trump ran on. In the end, we need China to get North Korea to the table. I truly hope we can start to build diplomatic relations with N Korea soon. What a fucking mess.
Trump knows nothing about foreign policy. He has destroyed the State Dept so whenever any diplomatic solutions come up, we will be unprepared to engage in them. He gets no credit for doing anything more than scaring the Chinese into action. Volatility will do that. It’s not about winning. It;s about the Us no longer being a reliable leader in international affairs.

The Chinese refer to Trump as a ‘paper tiger’ — all bluster, no bite. This is how he’s making America great again??? By humiliating us on the world stage?? It’s hard to read this piece without becoming a bit ill. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/08/making-china-great-again
I have been a staunch critic of many American policies abroad for decades, as is my duty in a free society, but I have never subscribed to the commonly held view that the world would be better without US involvement in diplomatic solutions. The only reason to scare another country, especially one with nuclear capacity, is to get them to the negotiating table. (This is also the much ignored importance of global trade) Trump has left us with nothing but might. We have no negotiating capacity. It’s a frightening scenario.

I personally value opinions that seek a place at the table, but don’t seek to dominate discourse (aka ‘win’).

Disinterest Observer was simply responding within the context of the conversation with their opinion– precisely because someone earlier had asserted that opinion did not exist here. It was the discursive equivalent of a vote or an exclamation of ‘present’. There’s no need to substantiate that opinion to validate it in the context of this conversation. It’s existence is what’s relevant here.

I am in a waiting area and so have time for this BS right now HW. Normally I don’t bother arguing with you, or your fallacious points of proof. I’m only doing so, so you might possibly realize that not everyone here responds with all they have to all of your (many) assertions, simply because it’s not worth their time, not because you are right. You should not confuse indifference with concession.

It’s easy enough to debunk any one of your assertions; it’s just not worth the time. People say they value your perspective. Don’t confuse that with them saying you are right.

It seems to me that you were confusing impartiality with relativism. They are not the same thing. You can look up relativism on the same site.

I will put up an offer here. Let’s place my presence here to a vote. I know it’s a holiday so we’ll give it a few days. I was considering bailing anyway, so it’s no sweat off my back to leave this site. I’m placing it to a vote largely because I’m ambivalent.
Nay if you’d like me to go silent. Yay if you want me to stay.

How is it then? You know how the news is supposed to be reported in an impartial manner? At least that used to be the idea, right? They were supposed to report the facts. If they engaged in editorialization there was some rationale behind it. To just say “my impartial opinion” without any kind of reason is ironic as shit.