Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 08:35 - Oct 23 by waynekerr55

I'll tell you what, in my opinion, is stupidity. Trying to ram a bill through in 3 days, when they could have published it for consultation.

It's a mess of their own making, particularly those fetid rats in the ERG who wanted to vote against May's deal but vote for a worse deal.

What’s stupid is the fact they’ve had a six month extension in March, yet they’ve spent the majority of that time doing the square root of f all either with a bloody leadership contest or their summer holibobs. Then prorogue and a conference season. Three weeks before the deadline expires they finally decide to try and cobble together some utter shite and then moan they’ve got no time.

They really are a shambles. All 650 odd of them. The only truth Boris has spoken is that Parliament is broken. Hey that rhymed.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:26 - Oct 23 by Highjack

What’s stupid is the fact they’ve had a six month extension in March, yet they’ve spent the majority of that time doing the square root of f all either with a bloody leadership contest or their summer holibobs. Then prorogue and a conference season. Three weeks before the deadline expires they finally decide to try and cobble together some utter shite and then moan they’ve got no time.

They really are a shambles. All 650 odd of them. The only truth Boris has spoken is that Parliament is broken. Hey that rhymed.

Oh I agree. This goes right back to when Maybot refused to be collegiate.

There is no excuse - Boris and his merry men fùcked up, it's time for PR as FPTP is dead

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:26 - Oct 23 by Highjack

What’s stupid is the fact they’ve had a six month extension in March, yet they’ve spent the majority of that time doing the square root of f all either with a bloody leadership contest or their summer holibobs. Then prorogue and a conference season. Three weeks before the deadline expires they finally decide to try and cobble together some utter shite and then moan they’ve got no time.

They really are a shambles. All 650 odd of them. The only truth Boris has spoken is that Parliament is broken. Hey that rhymed.

It's not all of them that's setting that timeline though, it's the government. It was the same with May too, and Cameron when he facked off after the referendum. All of the wasted time has been on our side, and cause by the government. They're a shambles. Internal power grab politics has taken priority.

I know people will say I would say this, but the EU have been highly efficient, professional, and clever in comparison. They've got us exactly where they want us and made us look thoroughly incompetent.

There's a good argument Parliament is working though, as it's making sure that it can't be bounced into making a decision without considering the ramifications of the documents. The government is definitely broken.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:52 - Oct 23 with 1020 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:48 - Oct 23 by LeonWasGod

It's not all of them that's setting that timeline though, it's the government. It was the same with May too, and Cameron when he facked off after the referendum. All of the wasted time has been on our side, and cause by the government. They're a shambles. Internal power grab politics has taken priority.

I know people will say I would say this, but the EU have been highly efficient, professional, and clever in comparison. They've got us exactly where they want us and made us look thoroughly incompetent.

There's a good argument Parliament is working though, as it's making sure that it can't be bounced into making a decision without considering the ramifications of the documents. The government is definitely broken.

I think we're at a point now where a lot of people simply trust the EU parliament more than the UK one. This whole Brexit debacle has probably done more to advance the pro-European cause than any other in my lifetime.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:52 - Oct 23 by Uxbridge

I think we're at a point now where a lot of people simply trust the EU parliament more than the UK one. This whole Brexit debacle has probably done more to advance the pro-European cause than any other in my lifetime.

Careful now, Kerouac will have a coronary.

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:00 - Oct 23 with 1002 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:48 - Oct 23 by LeonWasGod

It's not all of them that's setting that timeline though, it's the government. It was the same with May too, and Cameron when he facked off after the referendum. All of the wasted time has been on our side, and cause by the government. They're a shambles. Internal power grab politics has taken priority.

I know people will say I would say this, but the EU have been highly efficient, professional, and clever in comparison. They've got us exactly where they want us and made us look thoroughly incompetent.

There's a good argument Parliament is working though, as it's making sure that it can't be bounced into making a decision without considering the ramifications of the documents. The government is definitely broken.

High jack summed it up correctly. Parliament is fvcked 650 times over by self centred greedy incompetent individuals. Just an observation.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:03 - Oct 23 with 996 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:52 - Oct 23 by Uxbridge

I think we're at a point now where a lot of people simply trust the EU parliament more than the UK one. This whole Brexit debacle has probably done more to advance the pro-European cause than any other in my lifetime.

Possibly, although you'll get kick back from the usual suspects who think they're the enemy we're fighting WW3 against. I'm not sure I'd use the word trust, but I respect them and admire their professionalism more, for sure. I'd also have confidence they are representing their members and citizens interests more than our government are representing ours.

It's men v boys really. 3 PMs and different sets of ministers this process has chewed up and spat out here. They've been solid and consistent all the way through.

The biggest eye opener for me in this whole process is how awful the Tories are. I was never a huge fan anyway, although fairly neutral about them before (I've worked with some over in Brussels and they were fine). But this EGR lot and the current cabinet, etc.... Absolutely shocking - I hate them with a passion now.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:07 - Oct 23 with 986 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:00 - Oct 23 by Luther27

High jack summed it up correctly. Parliament is fvcked 650 times over by self centred greedy incompetent individuals. Just an observation.

I'd say there are a few good ones on both sides of the aisle, but unfortunately you are correct about the majority. Even more unfortunately empty vessels make the most noise and we consistently end up with the most self-centred, greedy and incompetent ones as leaders of the main parties.

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:03 - Oct 23 by LeonWasGod

Possibly, although you'll get kick back from the usual suspects who think they're the enemy we're fighting WW3 against. I'm not sure I'd use the word trust, but I respect them and admire their professionalism more, for sure. I'd also have confidence they are representing their members and citizens interests more than our government are representing ours.

It's men v boys really. 3 PMs and different sets of ministers this process has chewed up and spat out here. They've been solid and consistent all the way through.

The biggest eye opener for me in this whole process is how awful the Tories are. I was never a huge fan anyway, although fairly neutral about them before (I've worked with some over in Brussels and they were fine). But this EGR lot and the current cabinet, etc.... Absolutely shocking - I hate them with a passion now.

I think I stick with the word Trust, not that I ever particularly trust any politician, but they're certainly more professional, representative and consistent. And that's an organisation that also needs reform. It just shows how bad the UK political system is these days.

PR is an absolute must now. Whatever comes out of this, there needs to be a full review of our democratic system which is clearly unfit for purpose. If the union is to survive then I'd also argue a far more devolved system is needed too.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:40 - Oct 23 by waynekerr55

Oh I agree. This goes right back to when Maybot refused to be collegiate.

There is no excuse - Boris and his merry men fùcked up, it's time for PR as FPTP is dead

I think you hit the nail on the head there, mate, FPTP is at the heart of all the UK's political failings. PR is not perfect but it discourages the extreme wings of political parties from gaining prominence a la Joris and Corbie, and it prevents the constant lurching from one policy extreme to the other across all fields of government after every election. It forces the formation of compromise and consensus in parliament..

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 11:12 - Oct 23 with 927 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 09:52 - Oct 23 by Uxbridge

I think we're at a point now where a lot of people simply trust the EU parliament more than the UK one. This whole Brexit debacle has probably done more to advance the pro-European cause than any other in my lifetime.

La-la land mate.

It's easy to say things like that when your side of the political divide has seized control of the Parliament by lying to the public at the last election and is denying the public a vote isn't it.

You'll find out whether the public trust the EU or our government soon enough.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:03 - Oct 23 by LeonWasGod

Possibly, although you'll get kick back from the usual suspects who think they're the enemy we're fighting WW3 against. I'm not sure I'd use the word trust, but I respect them and admire their professionalism more, for sure. I'd also have confidence they are representing their members and citizens interests more than our government are representing ours.

It's men v boys really. 3 PMs and different sets of ministers this process has chewed up and spat out here. They've been solid and consistent all the way through.

The biggest eye opener for me in this whole process is how awful the Tories are. I was never a huge fan anyway, although fairly neutral about them before (I've worked with some over in Brussels and they were fine). But this EGR lot and the current cabinet, etc.... Absolutely shocking - I hate them with a passion now.

It is easy for the EU because they the Commission;

- doesn't have to face an electorate - doesn't have an enemy from within who is able to seize control of what they can and cannot do.

This Labour Party has destroyed itself. They will be out for generations. A Labour party that is arguing for the disenfranchisement of the working class voters deserves to be destroyed forever as far as I am concerned. It has become a front for middle-class Fabian Society types, seeking to subvert the UK in order to bring communism through the back door.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:24 - Oct 23 by Uxbridge

Out of interest mate, who lied in the last election. For once, Labour's position is totally coherent with it - they'd aim for a Brexit which is along the lines of Common Market.

The Tories? They promised a customs agreement.

Only one of those parties is going against their manifesto commitments when it comes to Brexit.

If I had to predict anything, I reckon a GE will be called very soon. Peston is predicting the EU will approve a 31/1 extension today. That may decide things.

1 - Every single Labour party activist who knocked on my door and promised they'd respect the result of the referendum. The Labour party have obstructed our departure at every step, nakedly lying and changing the goalposts as it has suited.

2 - Every Tory who stood on the Conservative manifesto, got elected, and then switched sides/declared themselves independent without bothering to hold a by-election

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:33 - Oct 23 by Kerouac

1 - Every single Labour party activist who knocked on my door and promised they'd respect the result of the referendum. The Labour party have obstructed our departure at every step, nakedly lying and changing the goalposts as it has suited.

2 - Every Tory who stood on the Conservative manifesto, got elected, and then switched sides/declared themselves independent without bothering to hold a by-election

Labour are entirely consistent with their GE promises in terms of the Brexit options they'd tolerate. Entirely. I'm not a fan but their Brexit policy has been consistent with it. Unlike the Tories.

I've no issue with MPs being forced into an election if change parties, however you're proposing a complete change in our democracy. We vote for MP's not parties. We have a PM not a President. I'm glad we're not the US.

In Labour’s defence (ugh I feel dirty now) it’s their job to oppose. And technically their manifesto became null and void when they didn’t form a government.

However they should be offering some sort of alternative and their to-ing and fro-ing and quite frankly ludicrous and vague ‘policies’ such as “keep everything on the table” and demanding an election then voting against an election have been embarrassing.

[Post edited 23 Oct 2019 15:31]

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:41 - Oct 23 by Uxbridge

Labour are entirely consistent with their GE promises in terms of the Brexit options they'd tolerate. Entirely. I'm not a fan but their Brexit policy has been consistent with it. Unlike the Tories.

I've no issue with MPs being forced into an election if change parties, however you're proposing a complete change in our democracy. We vote for MP's not parties. We have a PM not a President. I'm glad we're not the US.

That’s an interesting interpretation of our political system.

I would say we vote for parties, not people. That’s the difference between ours and the US presidential system. You* vote for Trump, you don’t vote for Boris. You* vote Conservative, and if they are the party that are most able to form a government, then you get Boris as the leader of the Conservatives.

* I don’t obviously mean you specifically, Uxbridge

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:06 - Oct 23 with 678 views

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:29 - Oct 23 by Highjack

In Labour’s defence (ugh I feel dirty now) it’s their job to oppose. And technically their manifesto became null and void when they didn’t form a government.

However they should be offering some sort of alternative and their to-ing and fro-ing and quite frankly ludicrous and vague ‘policies’ such as “keep everything on the table” and demanding an election then voting against an election have been embarrassing.

[Post edited 23 Oct 2019 15:31]

Quite. They are facking uselss and won't go anywhere until Corbie goes, but Brexit isn't their mess. If I was them I'd be tempted to let Boris get hoisted by his own petard too. They're doing that bit quite well. What they're not doing well is giving people a credible alternative.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 16:22 - Oct 23 with 667 views