I know, technically, the Elves were first, but just because Eru denied them sapience, does that mean they were not the first? A generic example , and the first thing that comes to mind is this: From That 70's show, Michael Kelso states that his first date with Jackie Burkhardt was one in which he "got further" than on their actual first date. Sorry for the crudeness, but again, that was the first thing that came to mind. --Quidon88 00:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you refering to the fact that Eru talked to Aule about them before the Elves awoke? If that's the case, I get what you're saying? --General Quon 19:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I am curious, I just read the article on dwarves, and I am wondering if some could provide the citation to the text concerning the Orocarni and the Red Mountains, I do not recall them from my previous readings of History of Middle Earth? NJZimmermann 03:31, 25 March 2008 (UTC)