There's been some recent confusion with the old spoiler thread, so I'm kicking off a new one for tonight's premiere. This is going to be the one for folks who've read all the books. So anything anybody might want to talk about is in bounds. Suffice to say, if you haven't read the books, you'll probably want to stay out of here until you do...

I'll bump the old spoiler-free thread shortly in case anybody's interested. For future reference the link to that one is here

We did not know, at least it was never spelled out in the books. The reason there's so much speculation about whether our not she is pregnant is because of the effect it would have regarding Robb's letter about Jon.

Yeah that's what I meant by suspected. Maybe it was just me but I thought she was definitely pregnant but hadn't told Robb.

There's a theory floating around that the Jeyne that Jaime meets in Feast is an imposter. This based on Cat's description of Robb's wife as having "good hips," which she does twice in aSoS, and Jaime's description of the girl as having "narrow hips." Not much to go on, but you can read more here, if you choose: http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/...rth/index.html

Also, maybe they're playing it a little different on the show. In the books it's clear that Sybell Westerling is working for/with Tywin Lannister. There are still some out there who think Talisa will reveal that she is really Jeyne Westerling in disguise. Maybe she's lying about being pregnant?

Or maybe they're gonna kill her and the baby in the show instead of leaving her in Riverrun?

Or maybe the show is tipping Martin's hand. Can't WAIT to see how this plays out.

This episode was the only one this seasn that was written by GRRM himself, so if he wanted to give confirmation of the theory that book Jeyne is pregnant, he can certainly get away with it. If D&D had done it in one for their episodes, there might be more of an uproar.

I think GRRM agreed to confirm it now to negate the need to devote any screen time to the Jon as Robb's heir angle. Would not surprise me if that part gets cut out of the show completely, but who knows, maybe not!

A lot of the backstory is filled in through characters' thoughts. Obviously that doesn't really work on TV. Does someone who has only seen the show know who Rhaegar is, other than Dany's brother? Would you know more than that at this point in the books?

What about Lyanna, Brandon, Rickard, Jon Arryn?

I realize that a lot of the story will need to be left out of the show, but a lot of the power of the story, at least to me, is in what comes before.

A lot of the backstory is filled in through characters' thoughts. Obviously that doesn't really work on TV. Does someone who has only seen the show know who Rhaegar is, other than Dany's brother? Would you know more than that at this point in the books?

What about Lyanna, Brandon, Rickard, Jon Arryn?

I realize that a lot of the story will need to be left out of the show, but a lot of the power of the story, at least to me, is in what comes before.

From only the show, I recall Robert and Ned talking about Rhaegar in the crypts when Ned weny to see Lyanna (sp?) there. Not sure they mentioned Rhaegar's name specifically, but I think he did.

I have to think that Torture Guy is going to turn out to be someone shocking. Like a step brother from his biological father or something. Karmic payback for turning on the Stark family. Suddenly his biological father and sister are going to walk into the dungeon and say they have known he was there all along. Something truly ****ed up like that.

using hot chicks to get a guy hard just so you can cut off his peen is just plain wrong.

Will he die in agony or will he become another vengeance achieving eunuch like Varys?

of course i can't come back and read any responses in this thread because i haven't read the books. I just like unfettered speculation.

I have to think that Torture Guy is going to turn out to be someone shocking. Like a step brother from his biological father or something. Karmic payback for turning on the Stark family. Suddenly his biological father and sister are going to walk into the dungeon and say they have known he was there all along. Something truly ****ed up like that.

using hot chicks to get a guy hard just so you can cut off his peen is just plain wrong.

Will he die in agony or will he become another vengeance achieving eunuch like Varys?

of course i can't come back and read any responses in this thread because i haven't read the books. I just like unfettered speculation.

I have to think that Torture Guy is going to turn out to be someone shocking. Like a step brother from his biological father or something. Karmic payback for turning on the Stark family. Suddenly his biological father and sister are going to walk into the dungeon and say they have known he was there all along. Something truly ****ed up like that.

using hot chicks to get a guy hard just so you can cut off his peen is just plain wrong.

Will he die in agony or will he become another vengeance achieving eunuch like Varys?

of course i can't come back and read any responses in this thread because i haven't read the books. I just like unfettered speculation.

The answer is actually in the show. Season 2, after Robb finds out that Theon took over Winterfell and then demands Theon alive and the rest of his bannermen to return to the Iron Islands.

There is no mention of Roose Bolton's heritage in any of the books. Not a single name of any ancestor. In fact, there's nothing written that would give an actual clue to his age. He is described as having an "agelessness" about him, and he has no scars although he has been in battles, and has no wrinkles although he was already Lord of the Dreadfort when Rickard Stark was in Winterfell.