I used to smile when Chris Pronger rolled onto the ice, this was 2005-06. Pronger—especially when he was out with a good center like Peca or Horcoff—was money. Honestly, I well remember the calm—perhaps as a lifeline to sanity—and the wonderful feeling it gave me. This was in the days of balance and clarity, before Oilers management wished it all into the cornfield. Those days are gone.

There is no Chris Pronger coming to Edmonton this summer, those calm winter evenings are a distant bell. The Edmonton Oilers, owners of a brilliant group of forwards who surely would have (eventually) represented championship quality, are down one King with a few Jacks sitting in limbo.

Note: At this point, I am going to begin discussion of something positive. If this causes you to fly in a rage over the Taylor Hall deal, I will refer you here and here.

What might be coming is the beginning of something resembling a top pairing. Now, this is early days—and Oscar Klefbom has to stay healthy—but the first blush of something worthwhile is upon us—and the total cost is a little more than $8 million.

Jason Gregor re: Klefbom (June 23): Oscar Klefbom was in Edmonton this week and he skated four days with the trainers and medical staff. The first day his foot didn’t feel great, but the next few days he felt fine and was very positive about how he felt. I asked (Peter) Chiarelli about Klefbom’s progress and he confirmed he had been skating and everything looks great. The past week was as much a mental exercise as physical. He needed to get on the ice and feel good and he did. A healthy Klefbom is a must if the Oilers hope to improve this season.Source

A healthy Klefbom is a very good thing. If the Oilers can land Tyson Barrie, and Klefbom can stay off the IR, Edmonton should have the best top 6D since 2006:

Klefbom—Larsson

Sekera—Fayne

Davidson—Barrie

That is how I would run them, you may want to place Barrie with Sekera and that is fine by me. Is that a playoff defense? Probably depends on the health of these six, as depth is going to lack experience and in some cases have other issues. Peter Chiarelli is apparently okay with standing pat.

Chiarelli to Bob Stauffer: “Notwithstanding the cries of protest for a power play specialist, I’d be very satisfied with where we sit today. We’re getting Oscar Klefbom back. He’s a helluva defenceman. It’s going to take him some time to get him up and running. He missed a lot of games last year. We’ve brought in Adam Larsson, a high pedigree player, although not as well known to this community as in other hockey circles. He’s a right shot, that’s important in the righty/lefty scheme of things. He can play an offensive role. No, he’s not an offensive specialist. He can play on a power play. No, he’s not a power play specialist. So all things being equal, if we were to start today with our ‘D’ I’d be quite happy. I’d be very happy. Yes, I’d like to try to get someone that can compliment a power play and push the puck up to the forwards. That’s no secret. We will continue to look at. There’s still a couple that are out there. They are hard to find.” Source

I think that means one of two things:

The Oilers don’t want to trade the Nuge (I agree)

Peter Chiarelli is bluffing

It probably comes down to Colorado deciding on what to do with Tyson Barrie. If the Avalanche move him, suspect PC will be in on it all the way.

50-MAN LIST (46)

Added in the last week:

RD Adam Larsson. A big part of the future, best righty D in some time.

RD Ethan Bear. A 5th round pick signed in the summer after his draft—very good arrow.

The free-agent group after Lucic is a curious bunch, honestly would not have chosen one of them as an option. Gustavsson seems to have been a fallback (Montoya?) but Edmonton could have acquired a more substantial option if they felt it was a priority. You can’t argue, really, that Chiarelli thought Brossoit was more than a mile or two from NHL-ready based on this solution. Fraser and Beck are Bakersfield options from where I stand, would love to be proven wrong.

PROJECTED 2016-17 EDMONTON OILERS

I have projected Jesse Puljujarvi getting Patrik Laine’s contract, so it is probably a little high. I have also included all bonuses, as they must be accounted for opening night—and the NHL team has to assume all players reach all bonuses. This is my understanding of the facts, speak now if you have evidence to the contrary.

I had a terrible time finding the second offensive RW. We know Eberle is the top player on that side, and I think he spends a lot of time on McDavid’s line. That said, there is no clear 2RW in this group, so I chose Yakupov and put him with 97 (that duo had success a year ago). I also think there is a very good chance Benoit Pouliot plays a lot with McDavid this coming season.

Jesse Puljujarvi is clearly the future option at that spot, but for me easing him into the NHL is the best plan—and that could include AHL time. I will say the forward group makes way more sense with JP on the 2line.

It looks like someone on RW is going to be odd man out. The obvious choice for sitting is Iiro Pakarinen, but I don’t see that happening. Zack Kassian and Nail Yakupov may see the pressbox this season—although Nail could do himself a helluva favor by ripping it up in training camp (and beyond).

I like the top 4D as shown above, but am in the minority (and that is putting things mildly). PC has stated he would be fine entering the season with this group, meaning the PP point job may go to a forward.

The third pairing remains up in the air, Davidson is playing the offside with Nurse. I do think that ends up being the setup, with possibly Eric Gryba added as 7D. Don’t fret about Jordan Oesterle, No. 8 D end up playing a helluva lot in the NHL most seasons.

I didn’t comment on this because the signing was a bit of a mystery to me. Looking at the signing numbers suggests (to me) that Peter Chiarelli is looking for players who could play in the NHL if needed, and he is offering some substantial sweeteners in cobbling the group together. He is a big winger, 122 shots in 50 AHL games (I am increasingly obsessed with shooters on RH side—Oilers need them for these centers and big LWs). He could play in the NHL this coming season, I do not think it likely, and would describe it as extremely unlikely he plays as many as 10 games.

With strong analysis on the decline (at least the public portion) it is heartening to see this kind of work. I think sometimes we (I) take Darcy for granted—we know him, we joke with him—but this is outstanding work. All evidence is presented, the limitations acknowledged and (increasingly) the math is aided by real writing ability. I imagine he is a helluva wood salesman, but this might be his calling and we benefit from his excellent work. Thanks, Woodguy!

Can really tell #Oilers Lander was/is frustrated, but now doing his everything to earn back his spot. Wish him all the best. Great character

Martin Lunden has appeared on these pages many times, and today he appears again via a powerful mini-article he tweeted out on Anton Lander. If you think you suffered through his season, stand back because it was murder for the Swede. Highly recommend you drop by Martin’s twitter (it is too long to quote here) and read it. Lander is an easy guy to cheer for, hope he has a major rebound season.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

We are back, for the whole week! TSN1260, 10 this morning. Scheduled to appear:

Scott Burnside, ESPN. What a week! Hall trade! Lucic signing! PK to Nashville! Lots to talk about this morning.

Antony Bent. Our soccer expert will guide us through the Euro action this past week, and look ahead to the semi’s. We will also discuss transfer window and Eddies fall schedule.

Scott Cullen, TSN. Canada’s NHL teams cashed at the draft and then some stepped onto the sidelines while other teams blasted through rock in search of change. We will do a tour and see if things are better.

Sunil Agnihotri, Copper & Blue and The SuperFan. Sunil will be the first of the Lowdown’s Oilogosphere experts to discuss the Hall trade, the Larsson acquisition and the Lucic signing. What does he think? Are the Oilers better?

I can be reached at 10-1260 via text and @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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What are the collective thoughts on Wisniewski as that 2/3 RHD with PP acumen. He only costs money, and not a ton of it likely, and fits that role well IMO. If he could be had for 2 years @ $3 million per, is that something that would be seen as a fit? Am I likely in the ballpark on the term/dollars?

I agree, line has a lot of potential ..stick yak on Mcdavid/Lucic line and ebs with nuge and pou and it looks like 3 lines any team wished they had..remember pou/nuge/ebs was probably their best line two years ago

I went snooping thru the Flyers prospects list, if they want anyone to take him they need to offer up one of those 3 young Leftorium D – Provorov is likely untouchable so its Sanheim or the big French kid.

Had ChiaP traded Fayne to NJ in the Hall deal. As in “look, if you really want Hall, you’re going to have to take Fayne too”. we then could have had Demers at $5.5 million.

I’m not convinced that Peter and Tod like Fayne’s game as much as LT does. I wouldn’t be surprised or upset to see Fayne moved back to the eastern conference in a package for our offensive RHD.

I’m also a bit surprised we didn’t try a little harder to bring Redmond to Edmonton. Not only does Redmond virtually rhyme with Edmonton, he showed very well in Woodguys RHD analysis, and the Habs scooped him up for a bargain.

Rube Foster:
Had ChiaP traded Fayne to NJ in the Hall deal. As in “look, if you really want Hall, you’re going to have to take Fayne too”.we then could have had Demers at $5.5 million.

I’m not convinced that Peter and Tod like Fayne’s game as much as LT does.I wouldn’t be surprised or upset to see Fayne moved back to the eastern conference in a package for our offensive RHD.

I’m also a bit surprised we didn’t try a little harder to bring Redmond to Edmonton. Not only does Redmond virtually rhyme with Edmonton, he showed very well in Woodguys RHD analysis, and the Habs scooped him up for a bargain.

Totally agree.

If I was predicting Chia’s whiteboard it has a scratch through Faynes name, for whatever reason. They have:

Klefbom – Larsson
Sekera – Davidson
Nurse – Gryba
Rienhart – Osterle

With thoughts of pushing down Davidson. Kind of obvious so I’ll throw this one out as well. Gryba is signed Wednesday.

I’ve had some time to digest the Hall trade and think about the potential of the current line up. The D core is looking solid for years to come, and the forward group has true potential, although it will take a year or two to hit its stride with Leon and Jesse now vaulted into such important primary scoring driver roles so young. The future still looks decent.

I do believe they traded away a potentially truly elite team that could have become a true sustainable dynasty for a safer more conventional team with far less upside however. For taking that potential away from me as a fan, Chiarelli will never have my full support moving forward.

tsg:
I’ve had some time to digest the Hall trade and think about the potential of the current line up. The D core is looking solid for years to come, and the forward group has true potential, although it will take a year or two to hit its stride with Leon and Jesse now vaulted into such important primary scoring driver roles so young.The future still looks decent.

I do believe they traded away a potentially truly elite team that could have become a true sustainable dynasty for a safer more conventional team with far less upside however.For taking that potential away from me as a fan, Chiarelli will never have my full support moving forward.

This is how I feel almost exactly. Zero trust in Chia, but I want to be optimistic. Hell, who doesn’t want to be optimistic? With RNH still on the roster, I think Drai and JP can be slotted into secondary, supported roles. If RNH is traded and a legit 2C is not acquired, then Drai will be thrust into a primary role. At that point, I would very much fear for the future. At this point, I think it can be argued that Chia has vision and an inability to execute. If we start with Drai as he only option at 2C, I will also question his vision.

tsg:
I’ve had some time to digest the Hall trade and think about the potential of the current line up. The D core is looking solid for years to come, and the forward group has true potential, although it will take a year or two to hit its stride with Leon and Jesse now vaulted into such important primary scoring driver roles so young.The future still looks decent.

I do believe they traded away a potentially truly elite team that could have become a true sustainable dynasty for a safer more conventional team with far less upside however.For taking that potential away from me as a fan, Chiarelli will never have my full support moving forward.

Chia’s damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. Tambo, MacT didn’t. Chia did. All damned. I left Lowe out because he “did” land CFP. But he damned himself subsequently.
I believe Chis will prove himself correct, although if he trades Nuge for Barrie and leaves us hollow down the middle. Maybe next year or the year after if/when Drai outperforms him @ 2C.

I’ve always liked the way Draisaitl and Yakupov played together, but even so, I would line them up exactly as you have them if only because breaking up the Pouliot-Nuge-Eberle line and playing PJ on the top line (or more specifically, against that level of opposition) don’t appeal to me.

Really ? I find the random stop/starts that Yak makes breaks up the freight train that is Leon in the neutral zone, Pou is a much better fit. I think thats what makes Yak so difficult is he stops moving his feet too often, and get’s paralyzed for that extra Mississippi before passing. Then there is the offsides…….nothing drives your center more insane.

The thought of dumping the Nuge for an offensive D who cant defend, is gross. Its not like there are elite 2C’s in UFA currently, let alone many 3C’s.

Just watch it be Nuge and Chia signs Chris Kelly. FUCK

I’ve been on record I don’t think we should trade Nuge for Barrie but I think you’re selling Barrie a little short here. He’s a legitimate top 3 Dman and he puts up elite offense. This is not a Justin Schultz type. This is a very good hockey player.

I got the notification on my phone as I was walking into work, nearly bumped into someone I was so surprised. That team is loaded now, and is a huge load to play against. Sounds like their losing a post player as Bogut has removed all Warriors branding from his twitter, but honestly if you can add the Slim Reaper (which is still one of the best nicknames in sports) to a team as good as Golden State, you do so. I’m amazed that he signed a two year deal for (the new) reasonable money as well. GSW was already the class of the west, with only Cleveland and the Spurs clutching at the hems of their greatness, suspect this pushes them over into ridiculousness.

I am a bit worried that bringing KD into the fold will negatively impact the splash brothers. They are so dependent on rhythm and nearly unsustainable 3-point shooting percentages that a serious disruption to their flow might result in much less success for them. The Warriors had this latest off season sewed up until Curry fell off his game. If both of them fall off with less touches, they might not be as good.

On the other hand, if Durant can be that additional scoring threat, with how well GS moves the ball around, they might just straight up dominate everyone. Aside from Klay and Stef, you were looking at Draymond Greene to provide your offense, and while he’s still an All-Star he wasn’t up to the calibur of Thompson or Curry. Now that you’ve got arguably a top 5 offensive player as the third option on that team, it gets a little bit ridiculous. You can arguably push the 3-ball more because instead of just a dominant low-post player in Greene you’ve got a bonafide superstar scorer in Durant as an option, and I’m guessing his shots won’t be as contested as they were in Oklahoma.

For anyone who’s not sure what we’re talking about, here’s an analogy. Imagine that Alexander Ovechkin signs in Chicago for decent money and term, or LA gets Sidney Crosby on a reasonable contract. An already great team acquiring a top 5 player in the league for a contract that makes sense.

Bruce McCurdy: The Schultz – Del Zotto comp is an excellent one that I have made myself on more than one occasion.

The thing about Schultz is that, while he is poor defensively, I’m also not convinced he does much to help this offense. I mean I know he’s a good skater and he’s good offensively when pinching in the ozone, but I haven’t seen him as an effective man in terms of getting the puck up to the forwards.

I’m not convinced our forward group requires a lot of pinching. I would like to see a guy in the Ryan-Whitney-pre-injury mold; a guy who can hit a forward at speed from 85 feet away 9 times out of 10. Those breakout passes of his were amazing, even after the injury, it’s too bad the rest of his game fell away so hard.

A big shot would also be an asset.

Last year with the oil, passing primarily to Taylor Hall and company, Schultz put up a 0.22pts/game pace. Polak put up a 0.23pts/game pace in Toronto.

Imagine the pep talk he might get from Lucic on the bench: “You try that again, Yak, and I will rip your fucking arms off.”Might do him some good

Ha!

As I have now curled up into the fetal position after the Hall trade, and wait patiently for the Oiler managers to begin stomping on my head by trading Nuge, I imagined this morning Hall blowing coverage, getting frustrated and sitting pouty looking on the bench, and Lucic killing him in the dressing room later.

Ca$h-McMoney!: The thing about Schultz is that, while he is poor defensively, I’m also not convinced he does much to help this offense.I mean I know he’s a good skater and he’s good offensively when pinching in the ozone, but I haven’t seen him as an effective man in terms of getting the puck up to the forwards.

I’m not convinced our forward group requires a lot of pinching.I would like to see a guy in the Ryan-Whitney-pre-injury mold; a guy who can hit a forward at speed from 85 feet away 9 times out of 10.Those breakout passes of his were amazing, even after the injury, it’s too bad the rest of his game fell away so hard.

A big shot would also be an asset.

Last year with the oil, passing primarily to Taylor Hall and company, Schultz put up a 0.22pts/game pace.Polak put up a 0.23pts/game pace in Toronto.

Younger Oil:
Dumb question, what happens with Barrie’s arbitration hearing if he gets traded before his hearing? Is it cancelled? Delayed? Or does it proceed as scheduled with the Oilers instead of the Avalanche?

Good question, actually.

Sometimes a trade exists in principal between the two GM’s (in this case Sakic and Chiarelli), and typically the player’s agent would be given license to negotiate with the GM. If they can come to an agreement the player gets traded and is signed immediately (eg. O’Reilly).

It’s conceivable in this case that the Oilers and Avs have in fact agreed to a trade, but Barrie’s agent is asking for an unreasonable amount of money, or that Chiarelli and Barrie’s agent are still working out terms. This is perhaps why certain media have speculated that a trade may occur in 48 hours because they’re working through the short strokes of the player contract.

Sometimes a trade exists in principal between the two GM’s (in this case Sakic and Chiarelli), and typically the player’s agent would be given license to negotiate with the GM. If they can come to an agreement the player gets traded and is signed immediately (eg. O’Reilly).

It’s conceivable in this case that the Oilers and Avs have in fact agreed to a trade, but Barrie’s agent is asking for an unreasonable amount of money, or that Chiarelli and Barrie’s agent are still working out terms. This is perhaps why certain media have speculated that a trade may occur in 48 hours because they’re working through the short strokes of the player contract.

tsg:
I’ve had some time to digest the Hall trade and think about the potential of the current line up. The D core is looking solid for years to come, and the forward group has true potential, although it will take a year or two to hit its stride with Leon and Jesse now vaulted into such important primary scoring driver roles so young.The future still looks decent.

I do believe they traded away a potentially truly elite team that could have become a true sustainable dynasty for a safer more conventional team with far less upside however.For taking that potential away from me as a fan, Chiarelli will never have my full support moving forward.

If it were going to become a “truly elite team that could have become a true sustainable dynasty” with Hall still in the lineup, we are talking winning in 2-3 years at best. You need Nurse and the rest of the prospects to develop on the back end. You need to stomach the entire McDavid ELC as a team never sniffing the playoffs, but making small gains. I don’t know how else you achieve winning without losing a trade to provide balance. I for one could not stomach another season out of the playoffs by Christmas. If we are in the hunt next spring, I give full credit to Chiarelli and he has my trust – 100%.

tsg:
I’ve had some time to digest the Hall trade and think about the potential of the current line up. The D core is looking solid for years to come, and the forward group has true potential, although it will take a year or two to hit its stride with Leon and Jesse now vaulted into such important primary scoring driver roles so young.The future still looks decent.

I do believe they traded away a potentially truly elite team that could have become a true sustainable dynasty for a safer more conventional team with far less upside however.For taking that potential away from me as a fan, Chiarelli will never have my full support moving forward.

Perhaps this is a stupid question, but if we didn’t move Hall this off-season but instead kept him for the remainder of his contract (expires in 2019 I believe?), how likely would the Oilers have been to resign him?

I’m just wondering, with McD and the rest of the “new core” needing new contracts in the next few years, the need for 2 top 4 dmen (and the price they command), would the Oilers have been able to sign Hall again for a contract that, in all likelihood, would have cost the moon? In other words, did Chiarelli simply speed up the inevitable by moving him now and focusing on building around the new core while finding the pieces to add for the future (i.e. Larsson)?

Connoreah:
Perhaps this is a stupid question, but if we didn’t move Hall this off-season but instead kept him for the remainder of his contract (expires in 2019 I believe?), how likely would the Oilers have been to resign him?

I’m just wondering, with McD and the rest of the “new core” needing new contracts in the next few years, the need for 2 top 4 dmen (and the price they command), would the Oilers have been able to sign Hall again for a contract that, in all likelihood, would have cost the moon?In other words, did Chiarelli simply speed up the inevitable by moving him now and focusing on building around the new core while finding the pieces to add for the future (i.e. Larsson)?

balance your portfolio when you need to (as market changes) not in anticipation of that event… of course it could be argued that this was the corrective action long overdue. i do not think that was the case, but i am wrong all the time.

Connoreah:
Perhaps this is a stupid question, but if we didn’t move Hall this off-season but instead kept him for the remainder of his contract (expires in 2019 I believe?), how likely would the Oilers have been to resign him?

I’m just wondering, with McD and the rest of the “new core” needing new contracts in the next few years, the need for 2 top 4 dmen (and the price they command), would the Oilers have been able to sign Hall again for a contract that, in all likelihood, would have cost the moon?In other words, did Chiarelli simply speed up the inevitable by moving him now and focusing on building around the new core while finding the pieces to add for the future (i.e. Larsson)?

4 years of a Hall’s value contract followed by a raise for Hall but with another hometown discount..
vs.
4 years of a lesser player followed by 3 years of decline.

Tough one 😉

But as Willis points out the short term choices were Hall/Demers vs. Larsson and the separate question of Lucic vs. Pouliot:

“it’s hard not to imagine the other scenario, the one where Edmonton passes on the Hall trade and signs both Demers and Milan Lucic. Benoit Pouliot would likely have to be sacrificed in such a scenario.”

two by four: 4 years of a Hall’s value contract followed by a raise for Hall but with another hometown discount..
vs.
4 years of a lesser player followed by 3 years of decline.

Tough one

But as Willis points out the short term choices were Hall/Demers vs. Larsson and the separate question of Lucic vs. Pouliot:

“it’s hard not to imagine the other scenario, the one where Edmonton passes on the Hall trade and signs both Demers and Milan Lucic. Benoit Pouliot would likely have to be sacrificed in such a scenario.”

Pou, Korps, etc etc could have been moved for stuff and then this is realized, keep your face cards and toss your 7’s and 8’s

Connoreah:
Perhaps this is a stupid question, but if we didn’t move Hall this off-season but instead kept him for the remainder of his contract (expires in 2019 I believe?), how likely would the Oilers have been to resign him?

I’m just wondering, with McD and the rest of the “new core” needing new contracts in the next few years, the need for 2 top 4 dmen (and the price they command), would the Oilers have been able to sign Hall again for a contract that, in all likelihood, would have cost the moon?In other words, did Chiarelli simply speed up the inevitable by moving him now and focusing on building around the new core while finding the pieces to add for the future (i.e. Larsson)?

Connoreah:
Perhaps this is a stupid question, but if we didn’t move Hall this off-season but instead kept him for the remainder of his contract (expires in 2019 I believe?), how likely would the Oilers have been to resign him?

I’m just wondering, with McD and the rest of the “new core” needing new contracts in the next few years, the need for 2 top 4 dmen (and the price they command), would the Oilers have been able to sign Hall again for a contract that, in all likelihood, would have cost the moon?In other words, did Chiarelli simply speed up the inevitable by moving him now and focusing on building around the new core while finding the pieces to add for the future (i.e. Larsson)?

So in your opinion, Hall would sign a “hometown discount contract” in 4 years with a team that made little to no progress in the 10 years he played there? I’m skeptical. I think Hall would probably test the open market and see what Cup contenders would pay.

Regardless of that point, how do you fit Hall (with a raise), McDavid (getting the max), Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbom, and Pool Party into that cap? I know we’re speculating, but it seems very unlikely that we could fit that roster.

Finally, I loved Hall. I really did. But I do think there is a bit of a hometown bias towards what he actually was as an Oiler. As LT says, he pushed the river. That’s a great thing. But I also look at the fact that last year – when many (myself included) felt like he was finally coming into his peak – he put up 60ish points. In addition, I never got the sense that he was a leader of this team. When the going got tough, I never felt like there was a single player on the Oilers roster that the troops rallied behind. We always just folded because we didn’t have a strong locker room leader. Hall should have been that guy, but I don’t think he was. To be 100% honest (and I’m sure this will get some blowback), I would not be surprised if Lucic scores on pace with Hall this coming year. People talk about Hall being the “far superior player” to Lucic. I don’t know that to be true.

two by four:“it’s hard not to imagine the other scenario, the one where Edmonton passes on the Hall trade and signs both Demers and Milan Lucic.

Maybe we could have signed Demers. Maybe.

Maybe we couldn’t.

4.5 x 5 in Florida is a big deal.

Demers hasn’t ever played north of California, maybe he likes the southern lifestyle.
State taxes are a big advantage.
Way less pressure from the fan base.
Way better team, on top of being a young team. Contending for a cup likely for all 5 years
Way better blue line to partner with, with Ekblad carrying the pressure for the team.
Luongo and Reimer standing behind you to correct your mistakes.
Way better travel schedule.

We have no idea if he would have come here short of throwing an obscene amount of money at him. And if he didn’t sign on the dotted line, there was litterally no one behind him in free agency to fill the void. Meaning we go into next year with the same problem as last year, nearly guaranteeing no playoffs.

So I agree, getting Demers at 4.5 and keeping Hall would have been nice. But I simply don’t know if it was possible.

Your sarcasm aside, can a team afford 7-8 star players, one of which will get the biggest contract in the NHL in 2 years?

You actually wait for Drai, Nurse, and Pool Party to get within spitting distance before moving out your drivers. And since your forward planning largely consists of a boat anchor years 5, 6, and 7 pulling you down when Hall was up for renewal can’t take your rationalizations seriously.

What’s frustrating about these boards this time of year is that people forget that players have free will and can’t be forced into playing for the team you cheer for.

For a lot of guys, once you are talking about $20million the extra few bucks becomes quite secondary to other issues. For some, because of McDavid for example, Edmonton might be appealing.

Given how Edmonton fans have treaded Dmen in the past few years I’d be reluctant to play here, quite honestly. You’d have to pay me a heck of a lot more to sign in Edmonton than Florida, but that’s just me.

two by four: Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynskiJul 2
My favorite thing from July 1 was the punditry’s reimagining of Milan Lucic as some sort of Messier-to-Rangers transformative figure for EDM

As I said, blowback. But consider this for a moment… Hall played every single game last year surrounded by Drai, McDavid, Eberle, Nuge, and put up 60ish points. Lucic played with Kopitar and Carter last year – good centers, but nowhere near McDavid’s talent. It boils down to: Does Hall, playing with NJ’s offense, score more points than Lucic, playing with McDavid et al?

You may think it’s a silly question. But I suspect 10 months from now, you won’t. Just sayin…

Really ? I find the random stop/starts that Yak makes breaks up the freight train that is Leon in the neutral zone, Pou is a much better fit. I think thats what makes Yak so difficult is he stops moving his feet too often, and get’s paralyzed for that extra Mississippi before passing. Then there is the offsides…….nothing drives your center more insane.

Draisaitl is such a smart player and seems to be able to read off of his linemates better than pretty much everyone else on the team. He’s like Pisani in that he’s one of those “instant chemistry” players. Yakupov is almost the opposite, and even Hall has had a bit of a reputation in the past of being a player that not everyone has chemistry with (though when people universally have better numbers across the board playing with him than without, that rep may not have been entirely earned).

Your sarcasm aside, can a team afford 7-8 star players, one of which will get the biggest contract in the NHL in 2 years?

Ok so lets look at it this way. Teams ala Chicago have decided that they can only afford a certain # of star players. So Kane, Hossa, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hjalmarsson get a bulk of that. When players become to pricey to re-up ala Byfuglien, Ladd, and Saad to name a few they turn them into high draft picks, great prospects or worse case scenario simply let them go… How has that worked out for them?

All I know is at this point of the rebuild I wouldnt be letting my 2nd best player on the team go with 4 years left on a Cap friendly contract. Especially since there was no cap crunch issue imminent.

two by four: You actually wait for Drai, Nurse, and Pool Party to get within spitting distance before moving out your drivers. And since your forward planning largely consists of a boat anchor years 5, 6, and 7 pulling you down when Hall was up for renewal can’t take your rationalizations seriously.

So are you saying you keep everyone, and then when the young guys cost more (in 2-3 years), then you move out Hall?

Because that’s exactly what I am suggesting is the alternative to what Chia did, and a bad one at that. The point being, why would you wait, fail to achieve any balance for the next 3 years and continue to finish 27-30 each year, only to do what Chia did last week 3 years from now? What do you gain from that strategy, aside from keeping Hall fans happy?

Does that make enough sense for you to take seriously? I’m genuinely curious. What is the point in that?

So in your opinion, Hall would sign a “hometown discount contract” in 4 years with a team that made little to no progress in the 10 years he played there?I’m skeptical.I think Hall would probably test the open market and see what Cup contenders would pay.

Regardless of that point, how do you fit Hall (with a raise), McDavid (getting the max), Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbom, and Pool Party into that cap?I know we’re speculating, but it seems very unlikely that we could fit that roster.

Finally, I loved Hall.I really did.But I do think there is a bit of a hometown bias towards what he actually was as an Oiler.As LT says, he pushed the river.That’s a great thing.But I also look at the fact that last year – when many (myself included) felt like he was finally coming into his peak – he put up 60ish points.In addition, I never got the sense that he was a leader of this team.When the going got tough, I never felt like there was a single player on the Oilers roster that the troops rallied behind.We always just folded because we didn’t have a strong locker room leader.Hall should have been that guy, but I don’t think he was.To be 100% honest (and I’m sure this will get some blowback), I would not be surprised if Lucic scores on pace with Hall this coming year.People talk about Hall being the “far superior player” to Lucic.I don’t know that to be true.

Lucic will have CMD to his right and Larsson and Klef passing the puck. I’ll be very surprised if that line does not become a goal scoring machine.

admiralmark: Ok so lets look at it this way. Teams ala Chicago have decided that they can only afford a certain # of star players. So Kane, Hossa, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hjalmarsson get a bulk of that. When players become to pricey to re-up ala Byfuglien, Ladd, and Saad to name a few they turn them into high draft picks, great prospects or worse case scenario simply let them go… How has that worked out for them?

All I know is at this point of the rebuild I wouldnt be letting my 2nd best player on the team go with 4 years left on a Cap friendly contract. Especially since there was no cap crunch issue imminent.

The key difference here, of course, is that Chicago built a balanced team from the get go. There was no need to move an elite forward for 70 cents on the dollar because they had Keith and Seabrook. Chia inherited a team with an AHL defense, so the comparison isn’t valid.

My question was, given reality (i.e. a team with ZERO balance and stuck in the basement), would keeping Hall for the next 3 seasons make sense if you had to move him in 3 years anyway to afford the new core? If your opinion is “yes” Chia should have kept him, then I am asking how that would benefit the Oilers or make them competitive while McDavid is still on the cheap. What is the benefit?

admiralmark: Ok so lets look at it this way. Teams ala Chicago have decided that they can only afford a certain # of star players. So Kane, Hossa, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hjalmarsson get a bulk of that. When players become to pricey to re-up ala Byfuglien, Ladd, and Saad to name a few they turn them into high draft picks, great prospects or worse case scenario simply let them go… How has that worked out for them?

All I know is at this point of the rebuild I wouldnt be letting my 2nd best player on the team go with 4 years left on a Cap friendly contract. Especially since there was no cap crunch issue imminent.

So if Chia in fact has all of his noodles then there has to be another reason, right?
I think Chia has his noodles. Can’t won’t speak to whatever other reason may exist. Except that Hall didn’t want to go.

Demers hasn’t ever played north of California, maybe he likes the southern lifestyle.
State taxes are a big advantage.
Way less pressure from the fan base.
Way better team, on top of being a young team.Contending for a cup likely for all 5 years
Way better blue line to partner with, with Ekblad carrying the pressure for the team.
Luongo and Reimer standing behind you to correct your mistakes.
Way better travel schedule.

We have no idea if he would have come here short of throwing an obscene amount of money at him.And if he didn’t sign on the dotted line, there was litterally no one behind him in free agency to fill the void.Meaning we go into next year with the same problem as last year, nearly guaranteeing no playoffs.

So I agree, getting Demers at 4.5 and keeping Hall would have been nice.But I simply don’t know if it was possible.

My sense of Chia ‘s comment “we won’t be signing Demers, at this point” was that it was not about money. I guess he could have felt the money was too high, but given what Demers signed for, that likely was not it. And if it was just $ they likely would be in the middle of negotiations and he would have fudged it a little more.

admiralmark: Ok so lets look at it this way. Teams ala Chicago have decided that they can only afford a certain # of star players. So Kane, Hossa, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hjalmarsson get a bulk of that. When players become to pricey to re-up ala Byfuglien, Ladd, and Saad to name a few they turn them into high draft picks, great prospects or worse case scenario simply let them go… How has that worked out for them?

All I know is at this point of the rebuild I wouldnt be letting my 2nd best player on the team go with 4 years left on a Cap friendly contract. Especially since there was no cap crunch issue imminent.

Any of those teams winning with a massive hole in the right side of their D?

Connoreah: So are you saying you keep everyone, and then when the young guys cost more (in 2-3 years), then you move out Hall?

Because that’s exactly what I am suggesting is the alternative to what Chia did, and a bad one at that.The point being, why would you wait, fail to achieve any balance for the next 3 years and continue to finish 27-30 each year, only to do what Chia did last week 3 years from now?What do you gain from that strategy, aside from keeping Hall fans happy?

Does that make enough sense for you to take seriously?I’m genuinely curious.What is the point in that?

add Demers move out stuff to clear space. add Lucic if you have enough space and improve. their will be some waiver trades at the deadline as well. if in the future Hall is odd man out do it when there is real need, someone making a run for cup etc and Oilers can squeeze a good d prospect plus plus

two by four: Agreed. You can fill in then with vets on short term contracts chasing McDavid and Stanley with discounts.Who doubts Hall would have renewed below market?

So between now and “then” we just keep finishing 29th with no balance, no change in the core, just the same approach and high draft picks? And then in 3 years we start talking about “turning north?” For me, this would be the one thing that I’d fire Chia for. Same old, same old….

Indeed it’s not hard to rationalize that Lindholm is the best of all the defensemen listed, however given that Chiarelli kept mentioning ‘handedness’ leading up to and after the deal, I’m wonder if they were offered a superior D man who happened to be the ‘wrong’ hand.

How good would an Eberle for Hamonic deal be now though? An optimist in me thinks Snow still has to fulfill a Hamonic trade request and that Chiarelli has turned the tables based on the Larsson trade.

Connoreah: So between now and “then” we just keep finishing 29th with no balance, no change in the core, just the same approach and high draft picks?And then in 3 years we start talking about “turning north?”For me, this would be the one thing that I’d fire Chia for.Same old, same old….

No, that is assuming that Hall was the reason for 29th. we know that is not the case, the oilers outscored when he was on the ice and were outscore when he was off the ice. the should have done is increase the RHD incrementally (Demers, waiver trade, etc) as it was available get ride of the players that were outscored on as you move forward.

Drew: add Demers move out stuff to clear space. add Lucic if you have enough space and improve. their will be some waiver trades at the deadline as well. if in the future Hall is odd man out do it when there is real need, someone making a run for cup etc and Oilers can squeeze a good d prospect plus plus

With respect, your suggestion has a lot of “just move guys for good guys and stuff and waiver pick ups ” and bingo, playoffs. I learned one thing in the past week – making deals as a GM in the NHL is a LOT harder than chatting about what deals a GM should make. I feel like we’ve done the whole “keep the core, find value guys, etc. etc.” for the past 10 years. I think this approach has proven to be a failure. Just my opinion though… I’m happy to try something different.

Connoreah: With respect, your suggestion has a lot of “just move guys for good guys and stuff and waiver pick ups ” and bingo, playoffs.I learned one thing in the past week – making deals as a GM in the NHL is a LOT harder than chatting about what deals a GM should make.I feel like we’ve done the whole “keep the core, find value guys, etc. etc.” for the past 10 years.I think this approach has proven to be a failure.Just my opinion though… I’m happy to try something different.

no we have not done that at all

they have chased whales

not recognized the talent they had Petry, Jan Hejda, etc

not bring in bad talent and bad deal Nikitin, Ferrance etc

Business is a tortoise not a quick fix. is a series of good decisions.

is a lesson in bad choices being made then a sub optimal choice being made to correct it.
team does fill a important need, just overpays

Connoreah: The key difference here, of course, is that Chicago built a balanced team from the get go.There was no need to move an elite forward for 70 cents on the dollar because they had Keith and Seabrook.Chia inherited a team with an AHL defense, so the comparison isn’t valid.

My question was, given reality (i.e. a team with ZERO balance and stuck in the basement), would keeping Hall for the next 3 seasons make sense if you had to move him in 3 years anyway to afford the new core?If your opinion is “yes” Chia should have kept him, then I am asking how that would benefit the Oilers or make them competitive while McDavid is still on the cheap.What is the benefit?

You are assuming there was never going to be any other option to fix RHD other then moving Hall. We have heard from decent sources that Hamonic was available if Oilers would give up Nurse as part of a package. As has been hashed on here Demers + Seversson/Redmond + Lucic could have been achieved without giving up Hall. It sounds to me that maybe you feel Hall is merely a good player as opposed to elite. I consider him elite and as GM would of treated him as such.

In my mind the Larsson deal probably brought the team closer to the playoffs but further from a Cup. We will sorely miss the constant attack that Hall brings to the game when this team hits the playoffs.

Drew: No, that is assuming that Hall was the reason for 29th. we know that is not the case, the oilersoutscored when he was on the ice and were outscore when he was off the ice. the should have done is increase the RHD incrementally (Demers, waiver trade, etc) as it was available get ride of the players that were outscored on as you move forward.

Ok, so incremental change to bring about balance… that’s what you’re saying is the alternative to moving Hall now. I understand that logic, and it confirms what I was suggesting in my original post:

What Chia did was say enough is enough, we need to put a winning team on the ice and put an end to the joke that is the Oilers TODAY. Not 3 years from now, TODAY. It will cost a lot, but it is better than 2-3 more seasons of high draft picks.

I for one support that approach 100% – I can’t stomach another basement finish.

is a lesson in bad choices being made then a sub optimal choice being made to correct it.
team does fill a important need, just overpays

Well, this tortoise has been stalled for 10 years. I for one have had my fill of tortoise. I suspect if Chia took the tortoise approach, 90% of posters on these blogs would be saying how he is no different from MacT and Tambo. I would be one of them. Which is why I’m excited for October, and not only because we get to see McDavid. We may actually be competitive. Exciting.

We downgraded a bit at 1LW in terms of offense – upgraded pretty substantially in terms of size, health, defense, leadership and toughness. What we gained was pretty damn important and what Lucic said at his introduction about playing the Oilers was well known. No one was scared of the Oilers as you could physically challenge that core and it would fold like a wet paper bag. Will be interesting to see who scores more points this year – Lucic or Hall – and it’s not a slam dunk considering who Lucic will play with and who Hall will play with. I’m over this and the rebalance works for me largely because I think we replaced most of what Hall brings at LW and even added in a number of areas where he was weak.

At the end of the season you could see a new attitude on the Oilers emerging when Kass, Maroon, Hendo and Nurse were running around creating mayhem. The opposition was clearly pissed off but thinking hard about the consequences of responding – mostly they didn’t. I can’t wait to see what it looks like after adding Lucic and Pouliot (who was hurt). No one is going to circle Oiler games as an “easy night” anymore and skill guys like CMD, Nuge and Ebs will have a lot of room to work. Even the new skill guys (Drai/JP) are big.

Yak and Ebs have a challenge going forward and I would start both in the top 6 – whoever plays the most complete game and bring the offense stays. Who ever doesn’t want to play a complete game and bring offense gets traded and replaced by JP next season. I’ve got a feeling that losing Hall and gaining Lucic is going to completely change the locker room dynamic on this team – and in that sense – Hall was the one to move. Ebs and RNH will fall in line with the new leadership. I’ve got a totally unsupported feeling that Yak may finally feel comfortable in that dressing room this fall if he’s still around. If we get another dman it will be a swap of LHD for RHD – no need to trade a forward like RNH. We have the time now to be patient sellers of LHD and not a desperate buyer of RHD. That has been addressed – price was high – but it was always going to be.

This is going to be fun for the first time in a long time and we are going to crush the Flames on opening night in the new barn to give them a taste of what the next 5 years will be like.

admiralmark: You are assuming there was never going to be any other option to fix RHD other then moving Hall. We have heard from decent sources that Hamonic was available if Oilers would give up Nurse as part of a package. As has been hashed on here Demers + Seversson/Redmond + Lucic could have been achieved without giving up Hall. It sounds to me that maybe you feel Hall is merely a good player as opposed to elite.I consider him elite and as GM would of treated him as such.

In my mind the Larsson deal probably brought the team closer to the playoffs but further from a Cup. We will sorely miss the constant attack that Hall brings to the game when this team hits the playoffs.

Fair comments. I for one am very skeptical of “reports that other teams would have paid more for Hall.” Believing those reports is believing that Chia would purposely choose an inferior deal, or that he is totally incompetent. I tend to believe cup winning GMs know what they’re doing, and that they don’t sabotage their own team for kicks.

Also, I have to chuckle when I read “Hall gone brings us closer to the playoffs but further from the Cup.” Can we all agree that a team that hasn’t finished out of the bottom 5 for the past decade talking about a single player leaving “costing us a cup” is a bit rich? Come on now. Let’s just focus on being in contention for playoffs in February for starters. And McDavid changes everything. Hall wasn’t going to win us a cup… McDavid will. Eventually. First things first though.

Connoreah: Well, this tortoise has been stalled for 10 years.I for one have had my fill of tortoise.I suspect if Chia took the tortoise approach, 90% of posters on these blogs would be saying how he is no different from MacT and Tambo.I would be one of them.Which is why I’m excited for October, and not only because we get to see McDavid.We may actually be competitive.Exciting.

I guess I believe that with additions like Demers/Redmond and a year of league average injuries. Add in a Lucic while also keeping Hall would of been a year with a huge uptick. But we will never know.

I guess to sum it up for me. Chiarelli traded $1(Hall) for .70c(2RHD Larsson) today. Perhaps in 1-3 years Larsson 2RHD becomes Larsson 1RHD. If that happens then I can look back and say not a bad move Chiarelli. As it sits right now im lookin at .70 cents and sayin we got ripped off.

We downgraded a bit at 1LW in terms of offense – upgraded pretty substantially in terms of size, health, defense, leadership and toughness. What we gained was pretty damn important and what Lucic said at his introduction about playing the Oilers was well known. No one was scared of the Oilers as you could physically challenge that core and it would fold like a wet paper bag. Will be interesting to see who scores more points this year – Lucic or Hall – and it’s not a slam dunk considering who Lucic will play with and who Hall will play with. I’m over this and the rebalance works for me largely because I think we replaced most of what Hall brings at LW and even added in a number of areas where he was weak.

At the end of the season you could see a new attitude on the Oilers emerging when Kass, Maroon, Hendo and Nurse were running around creating mayhem. The opposition was clearly pissed off but thinking hard about the consequences of responding – mostly they didn’t. I can’t wait to see what it looks like after adding Lucic and Pouliot (who was hurt). No one is going to circle Oiler games as an “easy night” anymore and skill guys like CMD, Nuge and Ebs will have a lot of room to work. Even the new skill guys (Drai/JP) are big.

Yak and Ebs have a challenge going forward and I would start both in the top 6 – whoever plays the most complete game and bring the offense stays. Who ever doesn’t want to play a complete game and bring offense gets traded and replaced by JP next season. I’ve got a feeling that losing Hall and gaining Lucic is going to completely change the locker room dynamic on this team – and in that sense – Hall was the one to move. Ebs and RNH will fall in line with the new leadership. I’ve got a totally unsupported feeling that Yak may finally feel comfortable in that dressing room this fall if he’s still around. If we get another dman it will be a swap of LHD for RHD – no need to trade a forward like RNH. We have the time now to be patient sellers of LHD and not a desperate buyer of RHD. That has been addressed – price was high – but it was always going to be.

This is going to be fun for the first time in a long time and we are going to crush the Flames on opening night in the new barn to give them a taste of what the next 5 years will be like.

To everyone who is heartbroken about Taylor Hall being traded, what if this was Larsson getting the $6M, and a straight up trade between Hall and Lucic, would you prefer the -27 player, or the +112 player? Lucic in a heartbeat.

So right now we have Andrew Ference using $3.25 Million of Cap Space. Mark Fayne will be paid $3.625 Million as a 3rd Pairing D. Anton Lander makes $978.5 K to be a totally ineffectual 23rd person on the roster. The Oilers’ 4th line makes $5.15 Million. Somewhere in there is Hall’s $6.0 Million.

As for Jason Demers, Oscar Klefbom is much better than Demers. Adam Larsson is absolutely much better than Demers (costs less too). Andrej Sekera is better than Demers. Quite possibly, Brandon Davidson will be better than Demers. Once he got Larsson, Demers wasn’t a priority.

Connoreah: Ok, so incremental change to bring about balance… that’s what you’re saying is the alternative to moving Hall now.I understand that logic, and it confirms what I was suggesting in my original post:

What Chia did was say enough is enough, we need to put a winning team on the ice and put an end to the joke that is the Oilers TODAY.Not 3 years from now, TODAY.It will cost a lot, but it is better than 2-3 more seasons of high draft picks.

I for one support that approach 100% – I can’t stomach another basement finish.

well i guess i did not do a good enough job of getting u to look at it from a different point of view. we can agree on disagreeing then.

Frank the dog: To everyone who is heartbroken about Taylor Hall being traded, what if this was Larsson getting the $6M, and a straight up trade between Hall and Lucic, would you prefer the -27 player, or the +112 player?Lucic in a heartbeat.

using plus minus as the valuation criteria?
oh my… i have a good bridge to sell.

Richard S.S.:
So right now we have Andrew Ference using $3.25 Million of Cap Space.Mark Fayne will be paid $3.625 Million as a 3rd Pairing D.Anton Lander makes $978.5 K to be a totally ineffectual 23rd person on the roster.The Oilers’ 4th line makes $5.15 Million.Somewhere in there is Hall’s $6.0 Million.

As for Jason Demers, Oscar Klefbom is much better than Demers. Adam Larsson is absolutely much better than Demers (costs less too).Andrej Sekera is better than Demers.Quite possibly, Brandon Davidson will be better than Demers.Once he got Larsson, Demers wasn’t a priority.

I’m wondering if he was going to go for Demers if he couldn’t get Lucic and therefore Larsson. So when Lucic agreed in principle to sign, Demers became redundant. Also, I’m wondering if Mrs. Demers would have preferred the warmer climes. Having grown up in a sub tropical climate, I was terrified of the cold when I fist came here. My relatives were hilarious when they visited me.

Chia has a pretty good poker face and let’s very little through – but you can see he was pissed off as the question was being asked – then he “reset” himself for the terse reply. I think Demers backed out of a handshake deal with EDM after the FLA offer came through and the only way he was going to come was at an obscene overpay. Think Yandle money. Pure speculation on my part.

Absolutely! I appreciate your perspective. My intent in posting the original question was to understand if there was a better way forward that I didn’t see (better being subjective, as we have come to realize). At the end of the day, if the Oilers are competitive this year I suspect as Oilers fans we’ll all end up on the same page. Cheers

I am definitely not looking for the Hall trade to be sugar-coated, the Oilers were in a tough spot and paid dearly to improve their defence. But one thing I could not wrap my head around was Button constantly referring to Larsson being a #3. MY understanding was that he was playing 22 minutes per night against the opposition’s best… is that not the definition of a top-pairing defenceman? He was +15, tied for the team lead, on a team with a goal differential of -24. So is it the lack of offence that keeps him from being considered a #2 at this time? He was gifted with 70% of his zone starts in his own end! All I know is if he is a #3 defenceman then I’d like two more please.

admiralmark: I guess I believe that with additions like Demers/Redmond and a year of league average injuries. Add in a Lucic while also keeping Hall would of been a year with a huge uptick. But we will never know.

I guess to sum it up for me. Chiarelli traded $1(Hall) for .70c(2RHD Larsson) today. Perhaps in 1-3 years Larsson 2RHD becomes Larsson 1RHD. If that happens then I can look back and say not a bad move Chiarelli. As it sits right now im lookin at .70 cents and sayin we got ripped off.

And that’s a fair (and common) conclusion being reached by Oilers fans. To clarify though, I wasn’t suggesting the Hall trade was good (when judged by quality of player moving in and out), but rather, whether it was inevitable, and in executing it last week as opposed to 3 years from now, Chia simply put us on the fast track to the “FINAL” rebuild.

Professor Q: That’s an interesting decline by Colorado. Yet another overpay by Edmonton, if true.

It is but I would be OK with it since clearly that’s the price and it doesn’t cost Nuge. Plus, if they accepted it I’m pretty sure Chia would turn around and sign Pirri and someone else. Poo, Yak and 1st Rd doesn’t hurt the roster much on paper especially if it means we end up with Barrie, Pirri and whoever.

Drew: add Demers move out stuff to clear space. add Lucic if you have enough space and improve. their will be some waiver trades at the deadline as well. if in the future Hall is odd man out do it when there is real need, someone making a run for cup etc and Oilers can squeeze a good d prospect plus plus

I get the impression from Chia that Demers was never an option. That is, the player never had any desire to come here.

Chia has a pretty good poker face and let’s very little through – but you can see he was pissed off as the question was being asked – then he “reset” himself for the terse reply. I think Demers backed out of a handshake deal with EDM after the FLA offer came through and the only way he was going to come was at an obscene overpay. Think Yandle money. Pure speculation on my part.

spoiler: I get the impression from Chia that Demers was never an option.That is, the player never had any desire to come here.

So what’s the next step?

I wondered about this… why come here for the dog and pony? the deal he signed is (in my opinion) lower than expected. i have to believe that Demers overplayed things and that $ and term could have been done. I am suggesting that Chia was pissed that Demers ended up signing for less than Oilers and he then felt (was compelt to) the hall deal.

i believe that a upgrade on RHD will shake out later in summer. there was some talk on radio that Fayne was very out of shape last year and poor play was result, can he be better as his agent has suggested?

Last three years, GoalsFor/60 and Goals against, with CorsiFor/60 and CorsiAgainst/60 (5v5)

Lucic:

GF60 … GA60 … CF60 … CA60

2.92 ….. 1.83 ….. 63.08 …. 52.02

Hall:

GF60 … GA60 … CF60 … CA60

2.75 ….. 2.73 ….. 55.62 …. 58.42

Now Corsi, despite how much we use it to evaluate individuals is really a team stat. However it is pretty clear the puck is in the opposing end more often with Looch. This might be telling us Hall’s points come off the rush more, whilst Lucic can establish Zone Presence or cycle better.

Both players are generally in the top echelon of their team with regards to Corsi. Hall usually gets the best linemates and the toughest opp, Lucic best to 2nd best against toughest to 2nd toughest opp (his usage varied quite a bit looking at the WOWYs).

But Hall happens to be one of the players Lucic has played against the most. We have to be careful with Opposition WOWYs because we are using much smaller sample sizes (one of the reasons I’m going 3 years of data).

Here are Lucic’s Goals and Corsi rates vs. Hall (5v5):

GF60 … GA60 … CF60 … CA60

9.137 …. 1.305 …. 75.71 …. 49.60

Which player is the King and which player is the Jack?

Now granted, Hall has an elite scoring rate… his P/60 total is outstanding over the past 3 years. But his PP P/60 is not elite and as you can see from above, he gets scored on almost as much as his line scores.

We downgraded a bit at 1LW in terms of offense – upgraded pretty substantially in terms of size, health, defense, leadership and toughness. What we gained was pretty damn important and what Lucic said at his introduction about playing the Oilers was well known. No one was scared of the Oilers as you could physically challenge that core and it would fold like a wet paper bag. Will be interesting to see who scores more points this year – Lucic or Hall – and it’s not a slam dunk considering who Lucic will play with and who Hall will play with. I’m over this and the rebalance works for me largely because I think we replaced most of what Hall brings at LW and even added in a number of areas where he was weak.

At the end of the season you could see a new attitude on the Oilers emerging when Kass, Maroon, Hendo and Nurse were running around creating mayhem. The opposition was clearly pissed off but thinking hard about the consequences of responding – mostly they didn’t. I can’t wait to see what it looks like after adding Lucic and Pouliot (who was hurt). No one is going to circle Oiler games as an “easy night” anymore and skill guys like CMD, Nuge and Ebs will have a lot of room to work. Even the new skill guys (Drai/JP) are big.

Yak and Ebs have a challenge going forward and I would start both in the top 6 – whoever plays the most complete game and bring the offense stays. Who ever doesn’t want to play a complete game and bring offense gets traded and replaced by JP next season. I’ve got a feeling that losing Hall and gaining Lucic is going to completely change the locker room dynamic on this team – and in that sense – Hall was the one to move. Ebs and RNH will fall in line with the new leadership. I’ve got a totally unsupported feeling that Yak may finally feel comfortable in that dressing room this fall if he’s still around. If we get another dman it will be a swap of LHD for RHD – no need to trade a forward like RNH. We have the time now to be patient sellers of LHD and not a desperate buyer of RHD. That has been addressed – price was high – but it was always going to be.

This is going to be fun for the first time in a long time and we are going to crush the Flames on opening night in the new barn to give them a taste of what the next 5 years will be like.

he is a king as well…

i like the player, not even the worst contract for free agent period. i am just greedy want all the cake, then eat it all as well.

spoiler:
Last three years, GoalsFor/60and Goals against, with CorsiFor/60 and CorsiAgainst/60

Lucic

GF60… GA60 … CF60…CA60

2.92 …. 1.83 …. 63.08 …. 52.02

Hall

GF60… GA60 … CF60…CA60

2.75…. 2.73…. 55.62…. 58.42

Now Corsi, despite how much we use it to evaluate individuals is also a team stat.

Both players are generally in the top echelon of their team with regards to Corsi.Hall usually gets the best linemates and the toughest opp, Lucic best to 2nd best against toughest to 2nd toughest opp (his usage varied quite a bit looking at the WOWYs).

But Hall happens to be one of the players Lucic has played against the most.We have to be careful with Opposition WOWYs because we are using much smaller sample sizes (one of the reasons I’m going 3 years of data).

Here are Lucic’s Goals and Corsi rates vs. Hall:

GF60… GA60 … CF60…CA60

9.137 …. 1.305 …. 75.71 …. 49.60

Which player is the King and which player is the Jack?

Now granted, Hall has an elite scoring rate… his P/60 total is outstanding over the past 3 years.But his PP P/60 is not elite and as you can see from above, he gets scored on almost as much as his line scores.

as previous comment i really like Lucic as well. add more kings get ride of some 6’s and 7’s and fill roster with low low cost 3’s

grab better Dmen all the time look for 9’s and 10′ and watch for face cards when they are available and the other players don’t see you for a sucker.

oh as well, you are one of my favorite stats posters. the sample size for the comparison, really how much value is their?

Chances are Barrie will get a good arbitration settlement. Sounds like Colorado won’t pay him in that case, thus their desperation to trade. Letting them off the hook with huge is asinine. Either out wait them like Puljujarvi, or flip them reinhart and a second. We don’t need to act like coke addicts over a half-decent defensemen.

Drew: well then the oilers (and hall) had their ass handed to them by this particular player. as hall was an out scorer he must have done very well against other good competition?

Looking at Hall’s top 12 Players Against, the only guy he really hammers on a Corsi basis is Michael Backlund. He has a decent edge on both Doan and Jannik Hansen too but not spectacular. He saws off Marleau on Corsi, but hammers him in GF/GA. He scores well against Kesler and the Sedins, despite losing the Corsi battle.

spoiler: Looking at Hall’s top 12 Players Against, the only guy he really hammers on a Corsi basis is Michael Backlund.He has a decent edge on both Doan and Jannik Hansen too but not spectacular.He saws off Marleau on Corsi, but hammers him in GF/GA.He scores well against Kesler and the Sedins, despite losing the Corsi battle.

wonder if systems comes into play along with player type(strengths weaknesses)

LoDog: You also said Lindholm. One was rumoured to be in play for Poo/Yak one was not.

I thought both were in contention. I have no idea. It was all over the place and for quite some time, and there are those who would say it was only whispers of wind upon the rocks or as sure as wetness after rain.

Frank the dog: In fairness, Hall played for a lottery team, Lucic for a contender. Had Hall been in LA and Lucic here I am sure the picture would have been quite different.

Well, if Hall is the river-pusher, getting the best linemates, the most TOI and facing the toughest opp, a lot of why the team is a lottery team is on him and the 4 other players.

The question is how much has a poor defense hampered his numbers?

Also, one would expect the river pusher to shine on the PP, when there is a clear advantage over any opposition, but Hall’s numbers are very middling. He’s 8th on the team in P/60 over the past 3 years, tied with Benoit Pouliot. When we expand that to the entire league, he’s very meh.

Professor Q: That’s an interesting decline by Colorado. Yet another overpay by Edmonton, if true.

Professor Q: It’s an overpay because Barrie wants out. Yet I wouldn’t put it past Edmonton to not take advantage of that.

Not to mention it was only Yak and Pou for Vatanen/Lindholm earlier on.

I am having trouble following you.

Barrie wants $. COL MIGHT move him because they are cheap and the coach does not value him (speculation). On the other hand they have 1 other RHD and cap room. They don’t need to move him and its hard to see why they would.

The fact that there were rumours of Yak and Pou doesn’t mean they are true. Further, THOSE TRADES OBVIOUSLY DID NOT WORK.

Its like me telling you that you paid too much for that car. You tell me you paid $5000. I say: “you overpaid man, I offered $4800 and they told me to get lost.”

If they got Barrie for Yak (a flop), Pou (a good but hardly star LW) and a lottery protected 1st, I think most people here would be very happy

$$ is going to be a concern of this team too. It seems rather alarming to see the lack of capspace for this lineup. Fayne, Hendricks and a few others come off the books soon but Drai, McD, Yak and a few others will be in line for a raise. I trust the North American economy won’t tank and the cap will increase again in the following years.

Spending $5mil on a 4th line is a recipe for a problem. Hopefully moving forward that’s Juju, Pak & another cheap winger.

The FLA offer may have been out of left field…or Chiarelli just changed course.

Really? Maybe you haven’t been in a position to consider several job opportunities with salary negotiation as part of the equation. I would fully expect Demers to investigate more than one option and pick a single one and spurn the rest. Who wouldn’t want to check out more than one option?

And even if he disliked Edmonton secretly if I’m his agent I tell him to go there and sound legitimately interested and get the largest handshake agreement possible to use as leverage in negotiation with the place you really want to go to.

I can easily imagine Chiarelli not getting Demers without ridiculous overpay. If that’s the case what’s Chiarelli’s move?

RPG: Can you really make this comparison? Six years takes Hall back to his rookie season. Lucic had already played 4 seasons when Hall was a rookie.

You can compare only last year or all 6 seasons – doesn’t change the result much. Hall is a top 10 LW in the league. I like OV, Benn and Pacioretty better as they bring a power forward physical element that Hall is missing – but Hall is certainly in the 2nd tier with D Sedin, Landeskog, Johhny G, Parise, and yes even Lucic. Hall is a better scorer but Looch brings a physical element, defense and better leadership. For me I’d call it a wash frankly but I value the other stuff more than just the boxcars. Looch’s boxcar’s are pretty damn good though.

What if we had traded Hall for Lucic and signed Larsson as a UFA? I’d bet the narrative would be different even though the result is exactly the same. If a better deal for a RHD was there it would have been made. I still have not seen one RHD who is both better than Larssson and actually available for just Hall being mentioned. Subban would have been Hall plus JP and maybe more – supposedly Pietrangelo was the same. I’ve come to the conclusion that we have escaped from an absolutely horrible mess on defense that the previous mgmt set us up with – but it cost a top 10 LW. Larsson is not and will likely never be a top 10 dman – but he may in fact end up being a top 10 RHD if he can break the 30 point level.

An older expensive winger, draft bust and mid-first round pick will not get you a big, highly coveted RHD no matter what other “issues” are out there. EDM has extra young LHD – if there is a deal to be made – that is the currency we will use.

Kiltymcbagpipes:
Surely some package of Poo+Yak/Fayne+1st to Winnipeg, Trouba to Colorado and Barrie to Edmonton can be worked out couldn’t it?

admiralmark: You are assuming there was never going to be any other option to fix RHD other then moving Hall. We have heard from decent sources that Hamonic was available if Oilers would give up Nurse as part of a package. As has been hashed on here Demers + Seversson/Redmond + Lucic could have been achieved without giving up Hall. It sounds to me that maybe you feel Hall is merely a good player as opposed to elite.I consider him elite and as GM would of treated him as such.

In my mind the Larsson deal probably brought the team closer to the playoffs but further from a Cup. We will sorely miss the constant attack that Hall brings to the game when this team hits the playoffs.

A key question for the Chiarelli’s time with the Oilers has to have been “how quickly can he bring the D and G in line with a contending team”? There is an essential time element to the question, he doesn’t have forever and there aren’t infinite options along the way.

Now, I can’t defend the Hall trade as a transaction, but I am also highly skeptical that a “grazing opportunistically for D” strategy is one I can endorse for the Oilers GM to follow. If I were the owner I would ask my GM to outline his strategy for building a contending core in three years, and I don’t think I would have accepted “I’m going to hope a top RHD falls to us sometime in free agency” or “we will address it in the draft”.

So I guess can get behind the idea of trading something really substantial up front for a player like Larsson even if I find the actual trade to be repugnant. Preferably in year one but certainly within the first two years of Chiarelli.