Congraulations on the new one! Ours is 20 months by now, we have sort grown used to being parents. Looking back on the first year, it was one long mild panic. Can we do this? How does it fit in our lives? Are we doing it Right? And every few months, it felt like we had to reinvent parenting again for the next stage in development. But it's great.

The little one is now learning to talk, with new steps every week. 2 weeks ago I found her next the neighbour's cat with my (empty) lunch box, earnestly saying "pusso bite bite pusso", the way we say "take a bite" to her when she's eating. Last week she sang (approximately) the first words of one song, and she would bring us the book with the song in it if we sang it. This week she learned the word "get" (or "fetch"). Sometime with a finger-pointed goal, sometimes she just hopes we bring her anything interesting. When she thinks she's alone, she dreamily mumbles "get, get", as if she's imagining that beautiful things that might come her way.

Words are magic power. She has to make sure she doesn't forget their proper incantation.

In everyone's life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It is then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.- Albert Schweitzer, philosopher, physician, musician, Nobel laureate (14 Jan 1875-1965)

At a family friend's urging, we took our daughter (four at the time) to get an IQ* test. She got a 152, but the child psychologist explained that the test caps at 160, and due to the nature of it, we should read that as "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 152?" (the test had six sections, and she hit the cap on three of them).

Now we're in kindergarten, and I'm less certain of myself than I've been since I was first handed a newborn and told some equivalent of "this is really, really fragile. You and that lady are in charge of it. Good luck." She's happy at school, which is good. However, she's also doing things like adding extra rules to her math work. Now I have to figure out if this is just her being playful and enjoying her work, or if it's boring for her and I need to lobby for her to get more challenging work. In the end, I keep having to ask myself "Is this a spot where I'm supposed to be advocating for my child, or do I just need to sit back and let my child be a child for a while?"

All parents think their child is special, and mostly they just need to learn to chill out and let the teachers teach. I'm "lucky" enough to have a note from a doctor saying my child is special. Do I have to become one of "those parents" (the ones who constantly second-guess their teachers), or am I allowed to chill out?

*note: I'm aware that IQ tests are limited in what they actually tell you. Since we have friends/family in the education/child care fields, we asked them about it. They basically said "Oh yeah, we knew. Your girls are your only reference point, so of course you didn't notice."

My older daughter is in that category - she's doing 8th grade math and science and 6th grade English in 5th grade. Not genius level, but quite bright.

Honestly, I think the best answer is to ask your daughter. At 5 or 6, she might not have a good grasp of things, but she should be able to tell you if her work is hard, or fun, or whatever. Take that (with a grain of salt), and then sit down and talk with your daughter's teacher and administrator. It might be as simple as giving her extra attention at home on certain areas (we like doing the 'Cooking is SCIENCE!' game, where we make something and then talk about chemicals and reactions and suchlike, and then eat it ), or it might be giving her specialized workbooks from higher grades to challenge her more.

"Does this smell like chloroform to you?""Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

At a family friend's urging, we took our daughter (four at the time) to get an IQ* test. She got a 152, but the child psychologist explained that the test caps at 160, and due to the nature of it, we should read that as "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 152?" (the test had six sections, and she hit the cap on three of them).

Now we're in kindergarten, and I'm less certain of myself than I've been since I was first handed a newborn and told some equivalent of "this is really, really fragile. You and that lady are in charge of it. Good luck." She's happy at school, which is good. However, she's also doing things like adding extra rules to her math work. Now I have to figure out if this is just her being playful and enjoying her work, or if it's boring for her and I need to lobby for her to get more challenging work. In the end, I keep having to ask myself "Is this a spot where I'm supposed to be advocating for my child, or do I just need to sit back and let my child be a child for a while?"

All parents think their child is special, and mostly they just need to learn to chill out and let the teachers teach. I'm "lucky" enough to have a note from a doctor saying my child is special. Do I have to become one of "those parents" (the ones who constantly second-guess their teachers), or am I allowed to chill out?

*note: I'm aware that IQ tests are limited in what they actually tell you. Since we have friends/family in the education/child care fields, we asked them about it. They basically said "Oh yeah, we knew. Your girls are your only reference point, so of course you didn't notice."

IQ can fluctuate hugely within the first ~10 years or so of life and tests given at that age aren't really a reliable indicator of much of anything. The bulk of students who are classified as gifted at kindergarten level will probably not end up being considered gifted if they are retested at age 10, and likewise, there are many students who are not classified as gifted in kindergarten level but who end being gifted at age 10. Take the IQ test with a grain of salt. If she's doing well in school, that's great. If she is bored and needs to be challenged, then it's okay to push a bit. But if she's struggling, then don't let the classification stop you from stepping in to make sure she gets the help she needs. It's honestly probably better to just ignore the result and follow your instincts.

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Unrelated: How do people feel about Santa Claus? My oldest is just coming up on the age where it might start to be thing (he's about two-and-a-half), and it will be next year for certain. My wife and her family are really into the tradition (her parents still give us gifts from "Santa"). I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the whole thing. I don't like lying to our children needlessly, and am uncomfortable with some of the associated baggage of the Santa gift-giving idea (our kids end up getting a bunch of gifts from somebody who they don't know/doesn't exist rather than from people who actually care about them; it encourages magical thinking; Santa gives much better gifts to some kids--rich ones--than others, etc.)

My reason for disliking Santa is different (Christmas is a religious holiday for me and I dislike the commercial and historically pagan aspects). My kid picked up about Santa from osmosis, so we told him that we made a deal with Santa; seeing as we're fortunate enough to be able to afford gifts, we told Santa he can give the gifts he would normally give my son to less fortunate kids and we'll take care of our family's gifts ourselves.

He needs reminding often this time of year that Santa isn't going to bring him loads of gifts because he keeps hearing it at school but it works ok.

He sometimes asks me about the difference between reality and fantasy ("are mermaids real?") then I tell him the truth (I may do the occasional white lie but not in response to a direct question) but I'll use the opportunity to encourage him to think about what he reckons is and isn't real given what he knows about the world. I am sure when he's ready he'll tell me that Santa doesn't exist, rather than me telling him. I got that way of thinking from another forumite (might be Mighty Jalapeno?) and it appealed to me.

Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.

Hawknc wrote:FFT: I didn't realise Proverbs 9:7-8 was the first recorded instance of "haters gonna hate"

It took two hours to get my daughter to have a bath on Sunday. She came in dirty from outside and I said 'you have to wash your feet off'. This commenced a cycle of 'No' > explanations of why baths are good > explanations of all the fun things we can do after the bath > going off to play > timeout > tantrum > cuddles > 'Ok time for bath' > 'No'. Repeat, repeat, repeat until it really was her regular bath time, and then off to bed.

Upside is since then she's been doing what she has to pretty well. But Oh me yarm. It's enough to make you kerazy.

Sometimes kids just have to prove to themselves that things work the way they do. The hard way.

(Source: am adult who still has to do that, way too often.)

In everyone's life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It is then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.- Albert Schweitzer, philosopher, physician, musician, Nobel laureate (14 Jan 1875-1965)

LaserGuy wrote:Unrelated: How do people feel about Santa Claus? My oldest is just coming up on the age where it might start to be thing (he's about two-and-a-half), and it will be next year for certain. My wife and her family are really into the tradition (her parents still give us gifts from "Santa"). I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the whole thing. I don't like lying to our children needlessly, and am uncomfortable with some of the associated baggage of the Santa gift-giving idea (our kids end up getting a bunch of gifts from somebody who they don't know/doesn't exist rather than from people who actually care about them; it encourages magical thinking; Santa gives much better gifts to some kids--rich ones--than others, etc.)

Last year our oldest daughter (4 at the time) started asking if Santa was real, or just a story. We ended up explaining to her that he's just a story that we tell kids to make them feel good and to make Christmas more interesting. We added that she wasn't supposed to share this knowledge with other kids (or near other kids) because it makes kids happy, and they'll find out when they're ready.

That mostly seemed to work until this past weekend. She sat me down with her "serious discussion time" face on, and asked me: "So, uhh... Daddy, is God sort of like Santa Claus?" I don't remember exactly what I (awkwardly) answered, beyond reminding her that other people (both kids and adults) may not appreciate having a five year old tell them that God isn't real. It was definitely a moment that made me wish I could call a time out and sub in a replacement parent for a bit.

LaserGuy wrote:Unrelated: How do people feel about Santa Claus? My oldest is just coming up on the age where it might start to be thing (he's about two-and-a-half), and it will be next year for certain. My wife and her family are really into the tradition (her parents still give us gifts from "Santa"). I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the whole thing. I don't like lying to our children needlessly, and am uncomfortable with some of the associated baggage of the Santa gift-giving idea (our kids end up getting a bunch of gifts from somebody who they don't know/doesn't exist rather than from people who actually care about them; it encourages magical thinking; Santa gives much better gifts to some kids--rich ones--than others, etc.)

Last year our oldest daughter (4 at the time) started asking if Santa was real, or just a story. We ended up explaining to her that he's just a story that we tell kids to make them feel good and to make Christmas more interesting. We added that she wasn't supposed to share this knowledge with other kids (or near other kids) because it makes kids happy, and they'll find out when they're ready.

That mostly seemed to work until this past weekend. She sat me down with her "serious discussion time" face on, and asked me: "So, uhh... Daddy, is God sort of like Santa Claus?" I don't remember exactly what I (awkwardly) answered, beyond reminding her that other people (both kids and adults) may not appreciate having a five year old tell them that God isn't real. It was definitely a moment that made me wish I could call a time out and sub in a replacement parent for a bit.

This apparently happens commonly enough that I've seen religious parenting books/websites warn parents against playing the "Santa game" with their kids for precisely this reason.

How do you handle when your kid doesn't want to do something? In particular, with younger kids, 'forcing' them by picking them up? I am worried about hurting my kid but how do I put her in timeout if she won't go there herself?

dubsola wrote:How do you handle when your kid doesn't want to do something? In particular, with younger kids, 'forcing' them by picking them up? I am worried about hurting my kid but how do I put her in timeout if she won't go there herself?

1. You are the parent, not their friend. Sometimes you have to do things for their own good they don't want to. Yes, if they are not listening and won't go to time out, you pick them up and put them there. And then leave the room (especially if there is screaming.) Don't say anything to them, just put them in timeout. If they get out of it, just let them know that timeout has been extended and pick them up and put them back in it. Repeat as necessary. Once they've stopped screaming and can talk like a person again, ask them what they did and why they did it, and explain why you put them in timeout.

2. You won't hurt them, assuming you're relatively benign with picking them up, don't grab them by the neck or anything, just pick them up like you're giving them a hug (mind your face from forehead slams against the nose) and place them where you want them to be. If you feel overwhelmed and want to scream or feel like you want to hit them, leave them where they are (as long as its safe) and go in another room. Lock yourself in the bathroom if necessary. And then scream if necessary, or bite a pillow. Children can be infuriating, and its OK to be infuriated. We've all been there.

"Does this smell like chloroform to you?""Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

Thankyou for the advice. I am certainly on board with the "parent, not friend" mentality and use timeout as a tool when needed. I would never scream at or hit my child (or any child). I just don't want her to hurt herself when she thrashes about.

Hadn't heard the 'don't say anything' part - can you go into a bit more detail about that? Why is it important?

dubsola wrote:Thankyou for the advice. I am certainly on board with the "parent, not friend" mentality and use timeout as a tool when needed. I would never scream at or hit my child (or any child). I just don't want her to hurt herself when she thrashes about.

Hadn't heard the 'don't say anything' part - can you go into a bit more detail about that? Why is it important?

Sorry that it took me so long to get back to you, I was out of town working.

The 'not talking to them' is part of what our counselor suggested with my younger daughter (who is on the autism spectrum, for full disclosure). Its about engagement and power dynamics. When they are screaming and you respond to them, the child has control of the situation/power dynamic. By not engaging them, you keep control of the situation and it is less likely to escalate, and it gives the child a quicker path to calm down and de-escalate. When they've calmed down and can talk more calmly, then you can engage them again and explain why they went into time out etc.

"Does this smell like chloroform to you?""Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

In everyone's life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It is then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.- Albert Schweitzer, philosopher, physician, musician, Nobel laureate (14 Jan 1875-1965)

Me and the herself are worried about how at the first sign of defeat, said 7 year old of hers, from the other page gives up completely. He's not a bad loser, in that he doesn't throw a tantrum or claim that others were cheating etc. He's just completely unable to handle not being the best at something immediately. (Musical instruments, slot cars, reading, Rocket League, etcetc)

Personally, I race slot cars, and so figured it would be an alright bonding activity given we've got to share a house a fair amount of the time. But it's tough, he's about as good as I was at it when I was a month into racing regularly (about 2 years ago), and I (obviously, as an adult) was able to handle having my arse handed to me every single race. He knows that the others he's racing with started off like him, but have (in some cases) been racing for twice my lifespan, so they're obviously going to be better.

Rocket League, he'll quit a game if his team ends up 3 goals behind. It's not even conscious, he just does it as a reflex. I've suggested that when it's obvious that you're going to get beaten, that you can use the rest of the game time to learn and improve, instead of jumping into the next game without a few more minutes of experience and co-ordination (never mind the rudeness of RQ'ing...) but it doesn't sink in.

But he quits. He doesn't want to work towards being good at something. I know defeat is something that you need to learn to deal with, but his aversion to it means he'll barely experience it because he's starting to only allow himself into circumstances where he will win, or can easily escape from the defeat.

Has anyone been this kid/figured out how to manage this with their own kids?

Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

@lazerguy, I figured out santa wasn't real at age 4. My parents never told me he was real, and I realized that it's impossible for him to visits all those places. I honestly think lying to children is horrible. They're young and impressionable. If their trusted adults admit lying to them their entire life... I don't think it normally goes well. I would suggest being truthful to children. Especially if they ask questions. If it's something above their level, or inappropriate, tell them that. And try to explain why you won't tell them what the real answer is, or simplify it.

My meta for future reference

Spoiler:

cemper93 wrote:Your meta appears to be "just writes whatever is on his mind and doesn't remember what happened more than five hours ago"

Me and the herself are worried about how at the first sign of defeat, said 7 year old of hers, from the other page gives up completely. He's not a bad loser, in that he doesn't throw a tantrum or claim that others were cheating etc. He's just completely unable to handle not being the best at something immediately. (Musical instruments, slot cars, reading, Rocket League, etcetc)

Personally, I race slot cars, and so figured it would be an alright bonding activity given we've got to share a house a fair amount of the time. But it's tough, he's about as good as I was at it when I was a month into racing regularly (about 2 years ago), and I (obviously, as an adult) was able to handle having my arse handed to me every single race. He knows that the others he's racing with started off like him, but have (in some cases) been racing for twice my lifespan, so they're obviously going to be better.

Rocket League, he'll quit a game if his team ends up 3 goals behind. It's not even conscious, he just does it as a reflex. I've suggested that when it's obvious that you're going to get beaten, that you can use the rest of the game time to learn and improve, instead of jumping into the next game without a few more minutes of experience and co-ordination (never mind the rudeness of RQ'ing...) but it doesn't sink in.

But he quits. He doesn't want to work towards being good at something. I know defeat is something that you need to learn to deal with, but his aversion to it means he'll barely experience it because he's starting to only allow himself into circumstances where he will win, or can easily escape from the defeat.

Has anyone been this kid/figured out how to manage this with their own kids?

You could try rewarding him for continuing after failing. He only gets the prize if he keeps trying for x number of games, or keeps racing even if he loses. Have him see you and herself have to try after failing or losing. There are certainly plenty of kids movies about this very topic, also books. Maybe talk to his teachers, too.

Don’t become a well-rounded person. Well rounded people are smooth and dull. Become a thoroughly spiky person. Grow spikes from every angle. Stick in their throats like a puffer fish.

dubsola wrote:How do you handle when your kid doesn't want to do something? In particular, with younger kids, 'forcing' them by picking them up? I am worried about hurting my kid but how do I put her in timeout if she won't go there herself?

This is a lot better now. Doesn't seem real that it was a year and a half ago.