POSTGAME NOTES: Giants slide back against the wall; Lincecum can’t keep run going

They’ve been here before, but man, these Giants really, really didn’t want to face this again. Ryan Vogelsong addressed the issue as early as Sunday, saying the Giants couldn’t fall two games behind again.

“We can’t get ourselves behind the 8-ball, so to speak,” Vogelsong said at the time.

The Giants are behind the 8-ball, firmly behind it, with little breathing room. They’re once again sitting a loss from the offseason, and they’re once again sending Barry Zito to the mound to try and keep the season alive.

Hey, they’ve won 12 straight Zito starts, a streak that started August 7 in St. Louis…

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“We’ve got to find a way to get a win tomorrow,” Hunter Pence said. “And if we go home to Vogelsong and (Matt) Cain throwing, we’ll feel pretty good.”

It sounds simple that way, but it won’t be so easy on Friday. These Cardinals have been here before and they’ve been down before. They know a thing or two about comebacks, and they don’t want to be on the other end of one.
“We’re not taking the last game to get into the World Series for granted,” Matt Holliday said. “The Giants have proven they’re a great team and they have (done so) with their backs against the wall.”

Those last three words were said often in the visiting clubhouse, followed by some variation of a familiar theme.

“We’ve done it before, we can do it again,” shortstop Brandon Crawford said. “That’s just kind of the attitude in here.”

“It’s not a choice,” Angel Pagan said. “We lose tomorrow, we go home. And we’re not ready for that.”

They’ve been in this hole before and they know how to dig their way out. Can they do it again? We’ll find out tomorrow.

Will they do it the same way? No. Pence said he has no plans to dust off a fiery speech. With the Giants facing their fourth elimination game in less than two weeks, he doesn’t need to.

“Everyone is aware of our situation,” he said.

— Tim Lincecum’s switch back to the rotation didn’t go as planned. The Cardinals got to him early and often, finally knocking him out in the fifth inning. Lincecum struggled with his fastball command and couldn’t find the zone quite like he did as a reliever. You can say the defense hurt him in the fifth, but then you would also point out that Pagan helped him in the third and that the damp air knocked down a couple of balls that looked gone off the bat.

“It’s extremely disappointing just because you feel like you can pick your team up in a situation like this” Lincecum said. “But when you don’t go and do it, it’s that much harder of a fall, I guess.”

Lincecum will now be available out of the bullpen, if the Giants can keep this one going. He said he thought he would be ready to rock by Game 6.

Dan Brown is covering the play at the plate and that story should be on our site soon. Crawford’s view of that run…

“I knew I had to be quick because I knew he was going home,” Crawford said. “I tried to give him the long hop. If I could do it again, I would hit him in the chest.”

— Quality exchange from the transcript for Game 5 starter Lance Lynn:

Q. You said you need to do better this time. What exactly do you need to do in your mind better this time?
Lynn: Not give four straight two‑out hits up in one inning.

— They cheered at Busch Stadium as the Yankees were eliminated.

Good times.

— After all the other reporters walked away from Pence, some guy walked up and asked a long, complicated, long question about getting the top of the lineup going and then getting the heart of the lineup going and then the bottom of the lineup. It was long and complicated.

Pence: “Yeah, it would be good if everybody got a hit every time.”

— No postgame word on tomorrow’s lineup, but Bochy said before the game that he would watch Hector Sanchez and then make a decision on Zito’s Game 5 catcher. After tonight, you’d have to think it’s going to be Posey.

— There was a very nice moment before the game as Stan Musial was taken around the field on a golf cart. The crowd cheered the whole time, and Bochy, Ron Wotus and Tim Flannery stood on the top steps of the Giants dugout and waited for Musial to approach. The cart stopped in front of the dugout and Bochy walked out to shake his hand and give him a small hug. The Giants do a great job with their Legends; the Cardinals do, too.

You can bet the Giants have another pregame surprise ready for the next home game. Now it’s up to Zito and this lineup to make sure there is a next home game.

We need a miracle!!! Our pitching carried us in 2010 and this year it has sputtered. It is what will likely kill us. We could have used Melky and he would have helped, but what we need most is solid pitching. Bumgarmer, Cain and Lincecum are not half the pitchers they were in 2010 as a group,at least not now in the playoffs. But tomorrow, I will be praying a miracle happens and we win the 13th game in a row that Zito has started!!! GO Giants!!!!

JP

How did Huff age 10 years after only 2?? He runs like he’s in an old timers game! Sorry, I forgot, he has ‘high anxiety’.

Lockersby

Melky is a below-average hitter when not on the juice (see: Atlanta circa 2010). The Giants do not miss a below-average hitter in their lineup. Blanco’s been putting together some of the team’s best at-bats. This has nothing to do with Melky.

Sam

Giants should hire Will Clark as batting coach. This team had no plate discipline and hasn’t for 4-5 years with the exception of the second half of 2010. They have no idea what to do at the plate other than see ball, swing bat. They do not grind out at-bats the way the Cards do, the way the Yanks and Sox did. You see Pablo and Hector go up and not swing at the first pitch and ask yourself WTF just happened.

Other than all world Buster Posey, which player has improved since BamBam took over? It’s not Pablo, not Belt, wasn’t Nate, couldn’t help Rowand, Hector’s been a hacker since the day he came up, Crawford will be lucky to hit .260 in this league.

spartacus38

So many things to complain about but we are NOT HITTING.

Free Melky

@10:

I agree Blanco should be starting in LF. The thing that bothered me is that they didn’t give Melky a chance to workout in the fall league. Its a personal decision and a bad baseball decision. Is Melky not one of the best 25 players in the Giants org?

KezarMike

Yes, truthfully if my team was up 3-1, I would pretty much feel this series was over, BUT….my team is the one that is DOWN 3-1, so I’m gonna take Hunter Pence’s view on this.

To state the bleeding obvious (to quote John Cleese as Basil Fawlty), we need to win the next game. I know we all know that, and with Zito going …… (geez I wish Bumgarner was his old self)……

BUT … if we indeed DO win that next game – hey, it’s ONE game, guys, just one game….. and if we do win it, we come home with Vogey going. I like our chances in that game. And if we win that one, it’s Cain at home and the winner goes to the World Series. Uhm ….all plausible to me.

Now … to re-state the bleeding obvious ….. we need to win the next game.

Sam

Can you guess whose career line this is:

.220/.288/.353/.641
165K/42BB in 496 AB?

If you said Giants hitting coach Hensley “BamBam” Muelens, you are correct.

What are the qualifications to be a hitting coach. If he has do much hitting knowledge why did he hit .220 with a 4/1 K/BB ratio?

SurfCity

Hector may develop into the catcher of the future, but for the present, start Buster Posey.

The Tourist

Religion is weird… people still talking about Melky.

KezarMike

I’ve been following baseball since 1965 and I’ve never seen a hitting coach yet have much of a big general effect on a team (yes, of course in certain instances where a specific player had a problem and got helped once or twice, but never to really improve a team’s overall hitting much). I think there was a guy in KC about 20 or so years ago who had quite a rep as a hitting coach. Have never heard of another one. (pitching coaches, different story, but you still have to have the horses – as good as Rhigetti is, Lincecum is still “un-fixed”).

Sam

I’d rather talk Melky than Mota

South City Jim

Buster has to catch tomorrow. Zito threw a gem against St. Louis with Buster catching and they need Belt’s bat in the LU against Lynn. Hector’s a good kid with a bright future, but Posey needs to be behind the plate the rest of the way.

Free Melky

@20:

I agree if we fall, we fall with Buster at C and Belt at 1B.

ClutchUp

KezarMike, KC’s guy may have been Charley Lau.

KezarMike

By the way, very rarely do you ever see a really successful major league player coming back as a hitting or pitching coach. Most of these coaches were run of the mill or lowly players. Roger Craig was a great pitching coach in this day, but a losing pitcher as a player. Rhigetti somewhat of an exception as he was an excellent major league pitcher.

KezarMike

Clutch Up, yeah, Charlie Lau rings a bell as the guy. Thanks.

http://www.gearheadexchange.net GiantGearhead

The notion that Melky could have come back and immediately contributed, after two months away from hitting major league pitching is optimistic at best, and completely unrealistic at worst. Where was he going to get back in game shape? The instructional league?

Sam

@Kezar:

You have been following baseball since before I was born so you have seen more baseball than me, but a coach’s job is to help develop players, especially young ones. A hitting coach probably can’t do anything with an established player like Rowand, but should help the younger players like Belt, Pablo, Sanchez, Crawford. If they can’t, why does this coaching position exist?

Giant PITA

Giants had better get to Lynn early and secure a nice lead before the 6th, because it’s game over if they are trailing after that. They have none chance against the Cards flame throwers out of the pen.

Expat

The only reason I have hope that they’ll win tomorrow is because all objective evidence says they should lose tomorrow. It all looks so improbable that it’s the type of game the Giants win.

If they lose I won’t lose my dignity and pine for Melky or call Bochy stupid or Panda fat or Hector “Haktor” or post Bam Bam’s career stats or mention Zito’s salary or pontificate about Timmy or defend Belt or rip Belt or slam Pence or blame Sabean or blame Baer or ridicule Amy G or nitpick Krukow and Flemming or post lineups and rotations that would have worked. I’ll simply appreciate the 6 months of free entertainment, root for the Tigers and huddle by the hot stove until Spring.

South City Jim

By the way, the Giants’ have won 12 straight Zito starts with the following first five in the LU:

Pagan
Scoots
Pablo
Buster
Pence

Go back to that tomorrow.

SurfCity

Pita, make it by the 3rd or the 4th. Zito pitches better when he’s staked to a lead.

Giant PITA

@ Expat
+++++

Giant PITA

Tru dat Surf!

Sam

The Giants have had some fairly successful MLB players as hitting coaches the past 20 years:

But I get your point HOF players are not returning as hitting coaches. It get frustrating seeing Pablo swing at the pitches at his eyes and his ankles in the same at bat, and Belt keep striking out.

Free Melky

As you can tell by my handle I heart Melky more than anyone, but many of you are right its time to move on. Im sorry I brought it up. I will root like a maniac on Friday and enjoy a great season, win or lose.

Woj

You know it would be nice to simply have the lead early. EVERY single early inning SF is losing. Behind 1-0, 2-0 or worse. The Giants lineup is just mediocre right now. We all know they were pea shooters and incapable of HRs but the lack of timely singles has us on brink of elimination.

I hope very little hope for tomorrow, I’m resigned to a loss and at peace with it when it likely comes. Reason: Zito is pitching and the Giants O is terrible right now. Essentially 1 run scored in 3 of the 4 games. Pablo’s HR was meaningless and came with as little pressure as possible.

I hope SF proves me wrong. This entire series has exposed the team’s weaknesses.
Get Josh Hamilton in 2013, this team needs a legit power hitter and has plenty of $$ to spend to get him.

extra inning

On the positive side, win or lose this series, Giants have sort of met the expectation of this season. They got into playoff which was expected. They got into NLCS but they are not the favorite to win WS among the final four teams. A couple of bad plays and a couple bad decisions by Bochy, and they are down 1-3.

Will they get lucky again? Let’s hope so. They need to get starting pitching back. That’s their foundation of winning. In 2010, they averaged only 3.2 runs per game in NLCS. But their pitching shut the Phillies down and only allowed 3.3 runs per game. (Yes, they won despite of negative run differential.) In this series so far, they scored 3.8 runs per game, but they gave up 4.5 runs per game.

Giant PITA

I just want to Vogey pitch at home again!

South City Jim

Hey, we’re still in the tournament. 29 other teams have already cleared out their lockers.

Newman

It all hinges on one of those improbably good Zito starts, or an eruption from the offense. Sadly, I’m not holding out hope for either. They look flat and tired and I don’t blame them.
No regrets if they do lose. This was a fantastic season of baseball from an extremely likable team. Lots of great memories.

ClutchUp

Sam, hitting coaches are glorified baby sitters. Carney was just fired again. Google Rudy Jarmillo he was the best in baseball. Theo fired him. Steve Decker is the head organizational guy. Ones career has not much to do with hitting coach success.

Bochy’s Thunderskull

The Giants need to win at Busch (Bush?) tomorrow and then win two straight at home. Impossible? No. Challenging? For sure. I haven’t given up.

That aside, the starting pitching is why the Giants aren’t slicing through the post season as they did in 2010. Except for Juanathon Sanchez, they were pretty damn flawless when they won the WS. Now, too many questions. Cain: one bad start, one mediocre start, one good start. Bumgarner: two awful starts. Zito: one awful start. Lincecum: one awful start. Only Vogelsong has been consistently good. The starters in 2010 were defined. In 2012, they’ve been question marks.

Add to that all the BS surrounding who catches who on what day, the Melky situation, no closer, no definitive first basemen. The poor offense at home. 4th and 5th place hitters batting .143 and .133. The Giants have been pulling this off with voodoo and magic. If you step back and think about it, they really are fortunate to be in the NLCS in the first place.

Hello Expat

What is your lineup for Game 5?

High and tight

I’m not sure what concerns me the most: the pitchers giving up eight runs in eight innings or the hitters managing only four hits in eight innings.

Sam

Clutch:

Yes or no question for you.

Do you think Pablo Sandoval is a better hitter in 2012 than he was in 2009?

Is Brandon Belt a better hitter in 2012 than 2011?

fooj

Play for tomorrow. Play for another game.
Go Giants!

KezarMike

Sam, you bring up some real good points. And the Giants (and I presume other clubs too) do as much of this instructional coaching as possible BEFORE players get to the bigs (I know the Giants do this big time with pitchers, probably hitters too). I think once a player comes to the majors, it comes down to simply talent. Of course you hope any player in any sport gets smarter as they get older (Barry Bonds developed a tremendous eye as he got older, quite apart from any steroids). I think a hitting coach exists in the bigs to keep players focused, to notice things a player might have changed that are affecting his performance and to be a sounding board for a player who is going through a slump, maybe point out that he’s moving his head all of a sudden or dropping his arm, etc etc I know some teams emphasize taking more pitches or hitting to the opposite field and a coach can re-inforce that. My understanding anyway. Check out the Charley Lau entry on wiki (geez – I said 20 years ago? More like 30 plus years ago in KC! Oh, well, we all get older…. if we’re lucky).

South City Jim

There were a lot of guys on the A’s this year hitting jacks that I never heard of before this season: Donaldson, Moss, Cespedes, Seth Smith…plus Gomes and Reddick better than I expected. Does Chili get any credit for that?

KezarMike

One more improbable Zito start this year? Just one more and we give Vogey a shot at tieing this baby. Yeah, the offense has been poor. So, what if Panda, Pence, Belt and Posey all do it big time in the next game? Just give our team a chance at a 6th game at AT&T. That’s the ticket, folks. Just give Vogey a chance (didn’t John Lennon once say that? Oh, that was give peace a chance, well I’ll feel peaceful for a few hours if we win the next one).

I’m writing a lot cause it’s only 1:30 pm where I am in Chiang Mai (northwest Thailand). Yeah, at least one diehard Giants and 49er fan out here.

extra inning

Giants need better hitting coach. They have been BS about how hitting coach is unimporant for years. This is just outrageous. If hitting coach is useless, why not getting rid of the position?

Cards have 2 hitting coaches, one for right-hander and one for left-hander. Look at their lineup! You have to give credit to Mark McGwire. He was juiced but he definitely knows about hitting!

Nitwit

“and that the damp air knocked down a couple of balls that looked gone off the bat.”

Just to let you know Alex, damp (humid) air is actually less dense than air at the same temperature with a lower dewpoint, so balls actually fly further in higher humidity.

KezarMike

The problem going after Josh Hamilton is that he’ll be 32 next year and you KNOW there will be at least crazy ONE team that will offer him 25 mill over 7 plus years. Would have been nice to have signed Beltran for 2 or 3 years but I realize that with the Huff, Rowand and Zito contracts, the team could not do that this year. But Rowand and Huff coming off the books next year and then I think Zito the following (and I have to regretfully add, Lincecum too), so the Giants should have the cash in 2013 and 2014 to get some real power help (IF there is an appropriate player available. Guys like Prince Fielder and Adrian Gonzales signed long term contracts in the last year)

Optimum for long baseball hits: high elevation, wind blowing out, warm and humid air mass
Minimization for long baseball hits: low elevation, wind blowing in, cold and dry air mass

warm and humid…not cold and rainy

Nitwit

brabon99, Alex said nothing of temperature. Only that “damp air” knocked the ball down. It’s a common misconception. Damp/humid air does not “knock down the ball.”

Nitwit

and that’s why I made sure to state “air at the same temperature”

Obrother

Many say hitting coach don’t matter but I for one would love to see Barry Bonds as a part time hitting coach with the Giants. Unfortunately Baer wouldn’t do it because its not politically correct. As for having Melky come back and baseball shape I’m not sure could have done worse than se of the guys that played yesterday and today. I hope they take a chance on him next year but again Baer won’t because again its not politically correct. I won’t talk about Melky anymore and Ill root for the Giants and am just frustrated that they just can’t hit especially with men on base. Tomorrow they need to play the best baseball they have all year. Are they capable? YES GO GIANTS

brabon99

carlos didnt want to be a giant

most fa power hitters dont wanna come to att, because they will see their numbers and value drop

giants must develop from within

as for the giants needing a new hitting coach…look what bam bam has done for the younger guys

i highly doubt there is much anyone can do with pence…pence has to figure out what he did to himself

the sky is not falling…just more than a few of the pitchers hit the wall

giants need to look into their pitchers offseason workout programs

pablo has to be asked once again if he takes the game seriously

belt has to improve his power numbers

the team does need another of…amazing as this was one of the team’s strengths

hard decisions may need to be made on timmy….pretty amazing how the scouts were all wrong. worried about his back and his arm, the issue always was, would he do something to put his motion so totally out of whack, that it would be impossible to get it back

really bothered by the hector bashing. his work behind the plate allowed posey to play in more games, were he just in as a catcher.

hector will go to winter ball again, then get married, then come back as the back up catcher next season

the west should be tougher next season, but i see no reason why the giants cant compete again

the playoffs are a crap shoot

Joe

I’m hoping Buster is catching tomorrow. I want the “real” lineup out there. I fine w/ Pablo 4th. Buster 3rd. Put Pence back to 5th. Time for an offensive explosion – of they go home.

One more thing on Melky: To those who *think* they know how long Melky’s been using PED’s, did you test him the past 1 1/2 years?? Did MLB?? (if so their testing is even worse than I thought – and means so many dirty players out there)) Nobody knows for sure – it’s all speculation – other than Melky. I, for one, believe he’d hit just fine if he stayed in good shape. We may never know – but if the other players are ok with him coming back next year – I’d be all for it. We need hitting for our park – and a third hitter – he fits the bill.

Expat is a commie

An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person’s upbringing.

Go back to Russia you commie

Sam

I don’t know if Melky can play or not, just that he is better than Huff or Mota.

extra inning

Mcgwire came back to redeem himself. Bonds has too much ego.

Sam

brabon99 says:
October 18th, 2012 at 11:57 pm
as for the giants needing a new hitting coach…look what bam bam has done for the younger guys
——–

Brabon,

Which young player other than Posey has improved under Meulens?

brabon99

the real lineup

the real lineup lost games 1 and 3

oh…we want the real lineup

same lineup that lost the first 2 games of the lds

the same lineup that probably will lose tomorrow

im sure that many of you didnt start watching games till the end of the season

Brabon99 is a commie

Brabon,

Speak for yourself. I Have been a big fan Oct 2010. I have 2 panda hats and 1 giraffe hat.

brabon99

Bonds has too much ego.

and yet bonds has repeatedly stated that he would like to work with hitters and when he was a player, would frequently made suggestions to younger players that immediately paid dividends

ya…huge ego

so tired of no giants fans coming here

Kimberly Bell

Bonds’ ego has shrunk just like his balls did while he was on steroids. When he was hitting HR, he was big $hit. Now that he doesn’t play nobody give a $hit about him and he needs the game more than the game needs him.

Ginger

So you’re the only real Giants fan that comes on here brabon99? ohh.. good to know!

But yet you don’t know that Barry Bonds has a huge ego? hmm… sounds fishy

brabon99

Sam

hector, craw

he has worked with arias and blanco

how many batting coaches would you like to go through?

JeffB

“We will never know what Melky could have done for us.He made a mistake and paid the price.”

Yep. The Giants did too. “Chemistry” over Loyalty.

Kicking a man when he’s down is never a thing to be proud of, but if 25+ guys are, more power to them.

Brabon is a commie

I guess Brabon forgot that Bonds for the first 15 years of his career refused to tell his own teammates issues he saw, ie pitchers tipping pitches, because there was a chance he would face them in the future.

Sam

brabon99 says:
October 19th, 2012 at 12:21 am
Sam

hector, craw

he has worked with arias and blanco

how many batting coaches would you like to go through?
————–
Sanchez 52 Strikeouts/5 walks
Crawford: .248 average
Blanco: .244 average

Really this is the great job BamBam is doing with young players. OK, if you say so.

bochy’s platoony tune adventures

THANK GOD FOR THE DVR! Got through the Giants game in 20min.

and that, folks, is why I thank the Lord for Thursday Night Football (at least for today). We had something much, much better to watch than Hacktor Stabchez stab at pitches and strike out multiple times looking, Posey fail to make plays at 1B that cost us runs because he’s not actually a first baseman, and Stabchez also fail to make plays at the plate because he’s not actually a catcher.

this game was a microcosm of why you put your best offensive and defensive team on the field at all times during the playoffs, regardless of “personal catcher” reasons. Bork is a fool, you put that defense and lineup out there, you deserve to lose. and lose they did. Its a whole lot easier to not really care when the manager won’t even field the best team.

Now let’s just finish off the season with a Zito implosion while Stabchez stabs and Belt sits. Its only fitting

bochy’s platoony tune adventures

the young players not hitting as well as one might want them to hit is not a failure of BamBam, hell Blanco isn’t even a young player. He’s been around so I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

I will say this though: Bork got run out of San Diego because he refused to play young, developing players, instead preferring veterans. When young players do not succeed on the Giants, what is one of the main culprits?

Lack of consistent playing time. Belts hitting has very closely correlated with his playing time, as has Nate’s during his time here. Bochy is the reason young players cannot break through with the Giants

brabon99

sam,

ya, lets not look at splits, or what craw has done in the post, or that hector was a part time player

lets not look at peripheral stats…lets just look at overall ba

dont apply to become a scout…you wont get hired

goodsam72

expat @ 28
great post — am in such agreement !

I WANT them to win tomorrow but i fear they’ve run out of gas — would love if they had one last blast of mojo left in ‘em to get them back to orange-ville….I need one more dose of vogie to get me thru to spring….

Mr. Majestyk

Hacktor has started 2 games.

The Giants are 1-1 with him starting.

The Giants are 3-4 in games he didn’t start.

But let’s pretend he’s the reason the team can’t pitch and can’t hit. Simple minds are satisfied with simple explanations.

bochy’s platoony tune adventures

Interesting story I read the other day: as manager of the Padres, a young player by the name of Xavier Nady came up through the system, and got the Belt treatment. Inconsistent playing time, badmouthing to media, jerked around…

fast forward nearly a decade- Nady reunites with Bochy as a veteran, and gets plenty of starts in LF over the young Belt (when Hacktor caught. oddly enough, Hacktor is immune to this- maybe Bork sees himself in a terrible backup catcher?)

Anyhow, point is- Bork has stated mulitple times he’s not here to “develop players” but will stand by a struggling, burned-out vet like Huff in 2011 to “get him going”.

MLBSF

Let me translate Lincecum’s monotone comments after the game in the lockerroom.

“Yea, whatever sportswriters.”

He had the body language and the indifference in his tone as though he just lost a game of Madden 13, as opposed to blowing the season for the Giants.

Because in the end, it was all Lincecum’s fault. We needed him and he was MIA. Just as he has been all season long.

Mr. Majestyk

Posey has stunk this postseason.

Panda has stunk this postseason.

Pence has stunk this postseason.

But apparently it’s all Huff’s fault.

Mavo

It is what I expected on here tonight … lots of whiners and complainers saying the season’s over (not all … but most!) I’ll give the same speech I gave last Sunday night after they went down 0-2 to the Reds in the NLDS … THE GIANTS ARE NOT DEAD!!!! If they can somehow win tomorrow’s game and get it back to AT&T for Sunday … anything’s possible. And last I looked the Giants won 94 games and a lot of those were on the road! So let’s wait until the last out is made before we write off this feisty team that has performed so well this season.

Lastly, as I did last week, I’ll mention my personal fight for survival. I am fighting ALS or Lou Gehrig’s disease and like the Giants my back is to the wall … for keeps! But Bochy said something tonight that I LIVE everyday during this struggle .. where there is HOPE there is life and without HOPE all is lost! So don’t you dare write off this team until the last out is made to eliminate them. Until and IF that happens … it’s not over!!!

The best results I know of from a hitting coach came from a guy who wasnt even a hiiting coach. When Ted Williams took over managing the Washington Senators he coached most of the hitters himslf and the year to year improvement was remarkable.

ExPFCWintergreen

Mavo – Whether we admit it or not, the denizens of this commentary blog are lucky to have someone of your character around here, and I personally pray that you can endure your sufferings for a long time to come. We know your are enduring them nowadays with great dignity and grace.

The frustration that you mention is not simply a knee-jerk response to the sting of a loss. That is little more than whining and rather infantile, but I believe that for the most part the criticism here reflects the knowledge of what the team could be but for the ill-fitting manager that the Giants have. In no way is Bruce Bochy the right manager for this team, and I believe that you know this to be true, but your keen sense of loyalty keeps you from admitting it. He has been embittered from his days as a player, and has unmistakably stated time and again in the past that he simply does not want to develop young players. He is a manager suitable only for the past steroid era. Bochy has no interest in small ball, overworks his pitchers, punishes and has a grudge against many younger players, and wishes that the entire position player roster was full of veterans.
IN SPITE OF THIS, the Giants have played up to what we have seen in the last few years, but it is not because of what Bochy has done, it has been in spite of it. For myself, it would be much easier to see the team lose a game like they did if I knew that the best possible team was on the field giving it their all. Unfortunately, Bochy’s behavior casts a pall on the team once again.

Mavo

ExPFCWintergreen – thanks for the very kind words!

I don’t always agree with Bochy. Recently I did not like it in game 3 when he insisted on Cain bunting with runners on 1st and 3rd. Cain is not that bad a hitter as a pitcher and proved it later in the game with a knock. But this is true of all managers! We all have our own way that we would manage .. but only one gets to pull the strings.

Bochy has his strengths and weaknesses … but on balance I believe he is an excellent manager. For one thing … he would not have lasted 18 years as a big league manager if he was not good at it! Does he stick with veterans a bit too long? Yeah, I’d agree with that. But he also was able to coax a strong season out of Pat the Bat and a strong postseason out of Edgar Renteria in 2010 too … it balances out!! I feel his people skills work wonders for team chemistry and he handles his pitchers just fine in my book. In short … he IS the manager for our Giants and all you who think otherwise had better get used to it because he will be here a long time IMO.

Let’s go Zito … make it 13 straight wins when you take the hill!! One at a time and we can do this again!!!

Mavo

People who criticize Bochy for sticking with veterans and Sabean for acquiring them probably have totally forgotten that Scutaro is a well traveled veteran! You probably all thought it was a mistake to give up a young prospect like Culbertson for him too. But look what he has meant for us the last two months and in this postseason! Lightening does strike in the form of a wily old veteran that can perform down the stretch!!

brabon99

Mavo
my friend has als too

born in denver, she had no team

moved to la…kinda liked the dodgers

now she is in st louis and loves the cards

there was a little boy, lane goodwin, huge fan of the cards, passed away yesterday from a rare form of cancer

there is a 13 year old giants fan, Ariel Rose Gariano, who is also stricken with cancer and wanted nothing more than to see her fav giants player, romo, throw once more in the world series…now she is too sick to watch anything.

brian stow is still in that damn rehab hospital

i really feel for all of you

sergio did something on the final day of the season at dodger stadium that wasnt reported by a single beat writer and apparently escaped the scrutiny of either team

during the middle innings, he had everyone in the pen sign a ball, then he and a couple of the players went over to the rf bleacher seats and motioned for a man with his son to come down. his son was so ill from cancer that the man had to carry him down. romo presented them with the ball, spoke to them for a few minutes, prayed with them…then returned to the pen and spent the rest of the inning, crying

no matter what happens with this series…im glad im a giants fan

Mavo

brabon99 – thanks for the thoughts! Yes, life has a way of catching up with all of us … some so tragically young!! Sergio is one of my all-time favorites and one of my wife’s too! He is so real and full of life and spirit!! It does not surprise me that he got that ball signed for that kid … he is a special guy.

Let’s go Giants!!! We CAN do this again!! One at a time!!

Mavo

One more post this early morning.

When I was diagnosed with ALS back in July of 2009 at 56, I promised my wife and kids I would make it to my 60th birthday!! The doctors and nurses I told this to all looked at me with a look that said to me “sure … the average survival length for an ALS patient is only 18 months or so … but sure you’ll make your 60th birthday!” They all showed me that they did not BELIEVE I’d make it!

You see my father who was a paraplegic for the last 18 years of his life, died just a few months short of his 60th birthday .. so it was an important milestone with me.

But here I am typing this blog posting a mere 1 1/2 months short of that 60th birthday!! And I never would have made it this far without the total BELIEF that I COULD do it!!! And I fully intend to somehow … someway beat this and make my 65th birthday too!!

So you can maybe understand how it feels to me when I read and hear how it is OVER for my Giants!!!! Sometimes you just have to believe that ANYTHING is possible!!! As Bochy said tonight.. without HOPE there is nothing left. It is NOT over yet and they can do this again!!!

Let’s go Giants!!!

thrillfor will

I read a bunch of post about Melky and the hitting coach. It seems to me our biggest probkem is our starting pitching. No player has been a bigger disappointment than Tim C. all year. When Tim was so good his velocity and movement was what got his outs the catchers would just set a middle target and his stuff got the outs. He has never pitched to the corners and must adjust. Saeben should have not offered him a 2 year deal and could have got him for 20% less next year(MLB arbitration rules) saving about 5 million.

KezarMike

MAVO – Great to see you are making it to sixty as you predicted. Heck, with your determination, you’ll probably make it to eighty at least!!!

I’m just a wee bit older at 61 and for some unknown reason, where I would usually feel totally defeated now about the Giants, I have a feeling of confidence. Could Zeets pitch the game of his life and justify his contract at thit time? And then could we go back to San Francisco with the team energized and hitting and then behind Vogey tie the series? And than Matt pitch a shutout to seal the deal? And the Giants then falling behind in the World Series before coming back in THAT series? Could this indeed turn out to be one of the great stories in baseball history?

First things first, we just have to win ONE game, the one on Friday. I don’t know what’s up ….. I just have a funny feeling. I’ll be rooting for the Giants and thinking positive thoughts from half way around the world in northwest Thailand (city of Chiang Mai).

Again Mavo, more power to you, friend!!!!!

MLBFAN36

As far as I’m concerned this is just extra bonus for us Giants. Let’s face it, we should not even be in the second round after going down 2 games to none So I’m happy that the Giants gave us at least another round to enjoy. Now with that said, do I feel confident that the Giants can come back down 3 games again? Yup, I do. They just proved they can last series so let’s see what they got. I will be rooting for the Tigers thought if the Cardinals go to the world series because Cardinals don’t event belong here being the second wild card team

http://Contracostatimes PerSpeier35

@BochysPlatoony, last thread you promised that you were through for the season. Of course the reason was that “Bork” put your beloved swinging in slow motion Belt back on the bench. This had nothing to do with the loss, Timmy was bad and the hitters worse. However, it would be nice if you would stick to your promise and stay away. Ideally forever but at least till Bochy is no longer the manager would be nice.

Obrother

MAVO GOOGLE the drug LDN. I don’t have your email address but my friend invested in this company and I’ve read the literature on it and its being used with good results in Africa for the AID’s epidemic but has looked good for many autoimmune diseases and cancer. It’s also inexpensive. Not sure if it will help Lou Gerhrig disease but its really helps boost immune system. I’ll keep you in my prayers

Obrother

MAVO- I want to make sure you got my email above so give me a shot out on blog.

Foothills Ryan

It would sure be interesting to see a regression of MLB HRs by RH% (w/o control for temperature).

Interesting discussion. Totally counter-intuitive.

Where’s Lefty? Her Absence is counter-intuitive? How’s about JD4SF? Dinero??…

Glad we have Mavo.

Mavo, I like your chances of sprinting past 70 than the Giants pulling out another. You’ve got the the spirit and the will. The Giants got mowed down by a pitcher on top of his game and it felt like game 6 of 2002; Game 7 a mere formality. The Cards feast on lefties and Barry Zito is coming to town. If you believe in miracles, this is your game. I give the Giants a 10 % chance of another miraculous comeback. But win today, somehow, and all bets are off.

If you were told Ryan Vogelsong would be the only starting pitcher worth his salt in the postseason and that Sandoval, Posey and Pence would collectively hit around the Mendoza-line, you’d have expected getting swept out in the NLDS – which just about happened.

Yet here they are against all odds. Being the second best in the NL ain’t too shabby. You’ve got to tip your cap to the cards and hope to rest and reload for 2013.

Go Giants! Look respectable today. And you never know, stranger things have happened.

MLBSF

Also too funny that our two worst pitchers (Lincecum & Zito) need to have their own personal catcher in the playoffs and are granted their wishes.

LOOOOOOOOOL!!!

I mean what is more preposterous than benching your all-star, and possible 2012 NL MVP catcher just because your two crappiest pitchers want their own guy.

And it doesn’t even help them. It would be one thing if having their own personal catcher helped, but they suck regardless of who is behind the dish.

I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s absurd and it helped cost the Giants the game last night because it completely changed the momentum. Unbelievable.

smh

Foothills Ryan

one more thing…

saw a couple of interviews on comcast: one of Lincecum and one of Pence.

It was nice to get that human touch. Interviews are always overloaded with cliches, but that human element, the raw emotion still comes through at times like these. The main thing that comes through is that there is no need to dump on these guys.

They’re both good guys. Lincecum is a smart guy and will always be a fiery competitor. Pence is a very passionate, high energy guy. It’s hard to dismiss his enthusiasm.

Even with the long ball, it’s still going to be a tough decision on Pence. Has he really fallen off a cliff as a hitter? Is there a better way to allocate the 12+ million coming his way?

Has Lincecum fallen off the cliff as a starter? Would the best path going forward be to use him as a reliever and find another starter in the offseason?

Big time questions bubbling to the surface?

The other question we’ve had answered is that we now know what a tired Buster Posey looks like.

Hman

Heh,heh,heh! Turn out the lights the partee is over. “Adios pelota”! Heh,heh,heh!!

Lefty

Hi Foothills: It’s nice to be missed. We spent most of yesterday driving to Santa Barbara. I’m going to a conference at UCSB today. Listened to most of the game on the car radio. By the time we got here, it was all over but the shouting. We went to find a bar with NFL Network to watch the fourth quarter of the 49ers game.

I did my best–Lincecum avatar posted, wore my Lincecum shirt in the car, and we even stopped at an In-N-Out Burger 5 min. before first pitch and got the “Timmy shake”–half choc/half straw. Just wasn’t meant to be. And so the sad strange saga of Lincecum’s 2012 takes another twist.

I’ll be done with work before the game today, and we’ll be watching. We’re hoping it’s not the last hurrah, but even if it is, I’m proud of them. They won more games than I thought they would this year, ran away with the NL West, and somehow with chewing gum and duct tape made it through the first round of the playoffs.

pacman68

Tonights the night guys. Just wanted to give a shout out to all of you and tell you that talking baseball all summer with you guys has been a treat. Weather we win or not … sports is a great distraction away from everyday life. I love my Giants and looking forward to watching tonights game. Let’s bring it back home fellas.

Kyle Perizi

So we go back to China Basin down 2 games after tonight’s win, this season’s ride is far from over, I still have hopes of a game 7.

When Zito’s on the mound the Gs offense responds, I can’t wait.

Blessed be the names of the BB Gods.
Take it to them Gs, keeping the faith.

larry

It’s not that the Cards are a better team. Giants beat them this year, unlike the Nats. It’s a matter of getting a base hit when the team needs it. Just like 2011, this team can’t get a clutch hit when the chips are down, and I’m really pissed about that. What to do? Get someone on the team that can hit consistently. But then again, get a manager, or a coach who knows how to set a lineup to get consistent hitting. And by the way, don’t look for our pitching staff to ever again pitch like they did the last two years. Their arms are wearing out,and it’s time to look for some new pitchers.

Lefty

As for the game and the series, I agree with those who said the story is the starting pitching. They have played nine postseason games. They got two good/excellent starts from Vogelsong, one good start from Cain (good but not great), and the rest were bad. It’s remarkable they’re still playing.

As for the hitting, I’m scratching my head a bit at the criticisms of Meulens. Last year and even early this year, I get it. But the Giants ended up third in hitting and sixth in runs scored this year. That’s a remarkable turnaround from 2011. I’m not sure how much credit Bam Bam can get for Posey’s return and the significant additions of Angel, Melky, and Scutaro (and yes, even Pence), but I don’t quite understand the calls for his head, either.

The bottom line is that the Giants are (at least) one hitter short of a credible lineup for a playoff team. Playing the Cardinals, the best offensive team in the NL, really highlights this: You go Beltran, Holliday, Craig, Molina, Freese–all over 20 HRs this year. Even the bottom-of-the-order guys, Descalso and Kozma, have been good contributors. The Reds, who are not nearly as potent as the Cards, throw Phillips, Votto, Bruce, and Ludwick at you. Those are very legitimate hitters.

Scutaro’s been great, but he’s not a power hitter. Buster is, but he can’t carry the offense all by himself. Pablo’s been erratic in a disappointing season. Pence is really a six-hitter. It’s just not enough. They’re undermanned. They need a Melky-type hitter AND a power hitter.

Giant PITA

Is 13 a lucky number for Zito and the Giants? Sure hope so. Go Giants!

Lefty

One last thought before heading off for the day: I don’t know that the Giants need to look for new starters. They have a solid rotation for next year and lots of promising young arms coming up in the system. And I’m certainly holding out hope that Timmy can have a bounce-back season. He had a terrible year and they still won 94 games. Imagine if he just had a decent year.

But some of us said all along that they were overtaxing the starters because the bullpen was shaky after losing Wilson, Affeldt for a couple weeks, and then Mota. I’d like to see them focus on a deep, solid bullpen that could shut down games from the seventh inning on, even the sixth some days–like those bullpens Bochy had in San Diego where if you didn’t get to them by the sixth inning, forget it. That way you could pace the starters to where they still had gas in the tank in October.

They’re pretty close to having that bullpen, especially if Wilson is able to be an effective closer again. You can put Romo back in the 8th where he’s so deadly and Lopez for those key LOOGY spots. Casilla and Kontos can be pretty good 6th-7th guys. And if they keep Affeldt, he’s terrific in those 6th-7th inning roles, too. The key is Wilson. If he can’t be the guy and if Hembree’s not ready, they should trade for or buy a closer.

Lefty

Mavo: The story about making it to your 60th brought tears to my eyes. I hope you’ll let us know when the day comes so we can all toast you.

Guido

Need a Bartman moment tonight to get some momentum back our way!

johnny

for today, please…….Posey @ C, Belt @ 1st. Pence @ Bench.

Foothills Ryan

The pages are running out on this fine season. It’s a sad feeling to draw to the close of a great book.

The Cards are stacked. Remember that Furcal is out. Beltran has sat the last two. Jaime Garcia got shelved. Carpenter just back in the fold. Great squad that will rep the NL well. Tip your caps while holding out for a miracle.

The Giants were a very good team this year. Top 5 in the NL.

They can improve this offseason. It will fun following and anticipating the moves this season. Looking forward to it as well as spring. It’s not over pacman. We’ll be a part of it.

CG

If someone can convince me that having Huff is swinging better than Melky could please do so oh and Nady sure has been a help. Even if Melky only hits 270 he over 150 points hight than those two. Nice choice Saben

2holehitting

This series as well as the last series has been microcosm of the struggels of the Giants.

Their pitching has been sketchy at best with several of their starters having off years and a few more that uteerly collapsed a little past midway through the year. even Zito that gets all teh praise is a sub leage average run scored of 4.0.

Lincecum is done. they have to eat 1 more year of overpriced pitching. The fears of his mechanics and age came to fruition this year , showed last year and appeared for a month a year earlier. That is progressively worse. A ball player said recently that at 94-96 Lincecum could throw up but at 90, that stuff is very hittable.

The hitting has been on again off again with little walks and lots of strikeouts and little power. While they tore up weeker pitching in t he second half, they did not against top pitchers.

If not for Scutero and Pagan and the awesome second half for Posey, they would not have made the playoffs. In a short series you pitch around the danger.

Pence has been a HUGE dissapointment. I thought he would be a great addition but that is not the case. I would think they will not tender him an offer and defineitly not at $12-$13M.

Melkey not being in the fall league for the Giants is a clear sign they do not want him back. Too basd because he will likely hit 300 not on Testosterone.

The Giants need a near miracle to come back.

As a Cub fan transplant Go Cubs in 2013!!!

Lefty

Krukow on KNBR today: “I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hector Sanchez catching again tonight. Brandon Belt has looked completely overmatched at the plate.”

OK, I didn’t see last night’s game–but didn’t Hector strike out three times, some/all of them looking?

Also, the only Giants with better hitting lines in the NLCS than Brandon “Overmatched” Belt are Pagan and Scutaro.

Krukow’s usually more astute than that. Maybe some team mouthpiece going on there?

Soothsayer Says

expat says

If they lose I won’t lose my dignity and pine for Melky or call Bochy stupid or Panda fat or Hector “Haktor” or post Bam Bam’s career stats or mention Zito’s salary or pontificate about Timmy or defend Belt or rip Belt or slam Pence or blame Sabean or blame Baer or ridicule Amy G or nitpick Krukow and Flemming or post lineups and rotations that would have worked. I’ll simply appreciate the 6 months of free entertainment, root for the Tigers and huddle by the hot stove until Spring.

and yet you just did…lol

Matthew

Footy, even though we have such a small sample size, it was blatantly obvious that Tim handled the mental aspect of relieving MUCH better than that of starting in the playoffs…his human elements that you point to could well be overwhelming him when he has days to stew, whereas being thrown to the wolves in relief allow him to just play ball. Earlier in the season, I think he even said something about “pitching stupid” or something like that, meaning to tell himself to just go throw and not overthink.

That being the case, it may well be that he is better suited to relief at this point. People talk about Eckersley, but the list also includes Smoltz and Raghetti as well… They transitioned at an older age and later in the career arc I believe.

We are speculating, and maybe an off season and a manager that decides to go with his best defensive support behind his once-ace (whether that means telling Tim to get over it if it is, in fact, Tim’s request…or coming to his senses if it’s Bochy’s) would right the starter ship.

I still say the talent is there…his lack of control seems mechanical, which then leads to mental collapse. He appears to be fragile for the second time in his Giants career (8/10 being the other short stretch) and I don’t see the proper decisions above him to help lead him out of those woods.

I won’t go too far on an anti-Bochy rant, but will say this supposed masterful management of pitching staffs appears overrated , or at minimum challenged this season.

Pence – generally speaking, people are freaking out way too much when they call him the regrettable names I see here… The best assessment came from the guy that quoted Denny Green… What did we expect from a career streaky guy? Streaks? Makes sense. He, like Tim , is very unorthodox… And when he goes bad it looks real bad, and all of us in the expert committee think we know so much from the couch analysis that his style MUST mean he is “trash”.

104 RBI. The annual numbers tell a story much more meaningful than deciding his talents aren’t worthy here… He has been unfortunate that this timing is brutal. Perhaps today he continues to climb out of it and goes crazy hot…

Hope so.

Zito tonight. Why am I so calm? Or is it resignation? If we win, is it a bonus and then momentum swings wildly towards the Giants? Fun times

Matthew

Lefty is BACK!

Ughh on the Krukow bit. That means Sanchez will start, since Mike seems to foreshadow every move correctly… Yup, shill.

Hector was thrown to those wolves by Bochy last might. Good kid, plays hard, cares a lot. Is overmatched in this high stakes stage.

Belt needs to play… But Bochy’s rope with him has reverted to June length….

http://www.thewisdomcow.blogspot.com The Wisdom Cow

Already setting Belt up to be the scapegoat. Between Belt being over matched at the plate and Crawford’s incompetent throws, the Brandons will end up blamed for everything. Lovely.

How the hell does Botchy pin a closed glove non-catch on a bad throw. Yes, it bounced, but he’s a CATCHER and it hit his glove!

I don’t blame Sanchez. He’s the back up C who should not be starting in post season. Posey also could not reach a wide throw to first and failed to leave the bag to prevent the error from granting a second base. Buster is good on 1B, but Belt is great.

Mojo will flow east regardless. Zito start = a win.

ClutchUp

Mavo: Chris, thinking about you! You “got this”. You will make it to way past the finish line. Book it! Props to your wonderful Bride also.

Foothills Ryan

Lefty,

as for starters, I think the smartest move would be to go for non-tender candidates like Peavy or Haren on a 2-3 year deal. Lincecum in the pen with Wilson and Hembree and Romo and Lopez and Casilla and they’ll have a pitching strength.

Brink back Melky. Why the heck not? Oh, the Yanks will grab him. Look at Braun’s drop off, it’s obvious Melky won’t be able to hit again

Hey #1, that’s right. All we got WITHOUT MELKY was running away from the Dodgers, an epic win in the division series and a team playing in the NCLS. The guys on the team now did that. Great job so far, and it ‘ain’t over yet.

marvin destin

Someone has got to tell Tim Lincecum that the 12 pitches is all I need warm up doesnt work as you get older. He has to do more stretching and more gradual warm up. His problems in the first inning (all year) are very symptomatic of that. Havings aid that Cain gave up one mistake and the Cards got two runs. Last night Lincecum gave up 3 runs. The cardinal hitters screen comment all said they were 0 for their last 10 at bats with RISP. They are simply getting huge results from very little offense. We areant getting any production out of the five hitters in the middle of the lineup and the cards are outproducing our heart with their 7-8-9-1 hitters. Franklly last night all our pitchers got squeezed while wainright got all kinds of corner calls. What the announcers were calling a clinic reminded me of the old Atlanta so-called master picthers who were given an inch outside and an inch inside for 10 years. That forces the batters to swing at bad pitches. If Tim and Matt got the same strikezone the game would have been very different.

al oha

Greg Maddux used to get 10 inches inside, and 10 inches outside.

He must’ve had photos of umpires in uncompromising positions.

Sam

brabon99 says:
October 19th, 2012 at 1:22 am
sam,

ya, lets not look at splits, or what craw has done in the post, or that hector was a part time player

lets not look at peripheral stats…lets just look at overall ba

dont apply to become a scout…you wont get hired
————-

What are you talking about? Crawford is hitting .208 in the postseason.

Skweezplay

Mavo, you are very inspiring.

Twohole at #111 and “microcosm of the struggles of the Giants” strikes a resonant chord with me.

The starting pitching just has not been there. The lineup has been inconsistent. Panda has regressed quite a bit, and Pence’s struggles have killed momentum.

On the other hand, this team has shown remarkable resillience all year, and it has also shown a penchant for breaking out on the road. So, if the Giants stay true to form — and there is no reason to think they won’t — they may throw out some high-scoring offense tonight and bring the whole thing back to SF.

Pacman 68

We win tonight and it’s over. We go to the World Series. So it’s up to Zito and the bats. I strongly believe that Zito will pull out a gem. Then it’s Volgie, Cain with Timmy in bullpen. Just win tonight … The rest will take care of it self.

Mr. Majestyk

Far as I’m concerned, it’s a tossup between Hector “Swing at every pitch I think I see” Sanchez and Brandon “Pleasepleasepleaseplease let him walk me” Belt. They both stink.

Mr. Sarcastic

The A’s get eliminated in the first round of the tournament, and their fans are appreciative and joyous over their season.

The Giants pull off the greatest comeback in NLDS history and make it to the NL Championship Series, and the “fans” on this blog are angry, spewing venom, and calling for heads to roll.

Of course we’re all disappointed that this series hasn’t gone well. But personally, I’m gonna root like heck for Zito tonight, and hope the series goes back home with Vogelsong starting Game 6. If it doesn’t work out tonight, well then THANK YOU Giants for a great ride this season.

CB the DodgerH8ter

Got em right where we want em.

CB the DodgerH8ter

I can’t tell if Mr Sarcastic is being sarcastic or serious.

ClutchUp

Al oha, Normally Maddox got 4-5 inches but you are right when (rip) Eric Gregg did the dish it got way big.

Expat

Mavo, thanks for your posts. They give us perspective and inspiration. Even though I only “know” you through some black letters on a blue screen I’m praying for your strength (hope you’re cool with that). I volunteered for an ALS fundraiser in the summer organized by a guy from my church whose brother succumbed to the awful scourge a few years back. Had some good conversations with folks touched by the disease and thought about you. Hang in there.

Good posts by Lefty, Clutch, Pacman, Foothills, Say Hey, Matthew and others. As far as I’m concerned, the Giants are playing with house money right now. They have the bullets – they’ve just been misfiring so anything is possible. It’s time for the Cardinals to get their hearts broken for a change.

Pacman 68

Lefty,

Krukow is smoking crack. Hector looked awful last night. 3 strike outs and a botched play at home. Krukow is a Bochy lover and will side with anything he says.

The best defense needs to be playing behind Zito. That is it.

mario

This is it Boys, are backs have been against the wall before, what else did we expect? We never make it easy! As long as there is a chance we will prevail, I have Faith in our boys they wont roll over, they have made it too far to go down like this! I like our chances if we win with vogey and cain pitching they will save the season.

Keys to winning the game

Sanchez has no business catching in the NLCS he is not the defensive catcher that posey is

Zito needs to have control of his fastball and curveball mix and match keep the st.louis hitter on their toes.

See Ball Hit Ball, no way they continue their funk, I think they will light up lynn like a chrstmas tree.

LETS GO BOYS!

Mr. Majestyk

I’ve never seen Pablo swing and miss so many fastballs down the middle. Usually his swing and misses are at pitches out of the zone.

October has caught up to Fatty. He didn’t even play a full season and he’s gassed.

al oha

Bruce Bochy may be the only Manager in MLB who sees Gregor Blanco as a 7th hitter and looks to get power numbers out of him.

Imagine if he were the LEADOFF hitter and instructed to get on base, anyway he can. Imagine him taking more walks with a developed discerning batting eye. Imagine him letting outside pitches get deep over the plate and slicing them into left field or slapping a grounder to deep short and beating it out like Ichiro. Blanco IS the fastest player on the Team, but you hardly notice it because that facet is not a part of Bochy’s idea of Offensive Baseball. Bochy’s lineups are testament to that. Bochy plays 3-Run-Homer Baseball with a Team who rarely hits 3-run Homers. How many wasted great Pitching efforts have we witnessed over the last couple of years? Those innings have taken a major toll on Staff’s Arms. Why does it seem that opposing Pitchers have so much more life on their fastballs and movement on their pitches?

Tired Arms and a lack of clutch hits w/ RISP, add up to alot of wasted opportunities. These Giant Players deserve so much more. They have played their hearts out. Somehow, they need to be given the best chance to succeed.

Win or lose today, I salute those who have given us their all.
Go Giants, kick some butt, make these smug St. Louis homer announcers eat their words. What I would give to see a Giant Player douse Tim McCarver in the clubhouse, ala Deon Sanders, after coming back and winning this Series and silencing their bandwagon.

mario

@ pacman 123, agree if the game is won, we will got the world series, I really cannot see the cardinals taking the next 2 at our house, I had my doubts with lincecum starting yesterday I think his issues are all mental.

Slide Dog

This is ought to be a great game tonite. You can bet that the Cards don’t want to travel back to SF, so they’ll be pulling out the stops along with the Giants. Just hope the game stays close in the early innings and that the G’men battle … looking forward to some good ball. As ‘Marty’ would say … ‘I really believe that’.

Skweezplay

Majestic –

Your post stating Posey has stunk this postseason is senseless.

All Posey did was hit a grand slam in the biggest playoff game to date, providing the runs the Giants would need to cap an improbable historic comeback.

And I don’t see all the venom you are seeing. I read the posters who have built credibility, and they are holding out hope the same as you.

Those of us who follow the team closely can see this team in not perfect, and we all know that changes will be made to try to improve the team going forward. Nothing new to that.

Mr. Majestyk

Ridiculous premise, al oha. The team’s resurgence coincided with Pagan’s return to the leadoff spot. Blanco has had plenty of chances to lead off innings lately and has done exactly none of the things you say he can do.

mario

Mavo you are true insparation to me, I dont post too often, but the many times that I have they have been negative posts, your post brought me to tears. We need to BELIEVE everyone send their mojo and good vibes to our boys, we can do this. If the season comes to an end and I know that it at least I can say that Mavo has changed my perspective on life not just being negative in a sports blog !

Obrother

It’s not over and Zeets can beat these guys with his pitching. Well be a great game tonight. I don’t post a lot but just wanted to thank all you guys for being active on this blog. Reading all the post especially when the game is being played makes it much more interesting. MAVO, footy, Pacman, Matthew, al hoa, Clutchup, lefty, south city Jim,The Wisdom Cow,2holehitting, expfcwintergreen, babon, fooj, surfcity, giantpita, sam, expat, kezarmike, woj, tourist and to others I forgot to list. We don’t always agree but the discussions have contributed to better the game. Now the Giants need to win the next 3 games. Some say that’s impossible but you can’t count these guys out. We did once so no reason to think it can’t be done again. GO GIANTS

Foothills Ryan

No matter what happens,

you can always wear your SF Giants paraphernalia with great pride.

The Giants are a great team with a fine front office, talented players and terrific fans.

What more can you ask for then for your team to be in it in October?

Who’s got it better than us ??

Nameless Bob

Nitwit,

Your explanation of factors affecting air density are correct. Low atmospheric pressure ( both from weather low pressure areas and altitude), high temperature, and high humidity ( H20 water vapor mostly light weight hydrogen) all make the air less dense and so there is less atmospheric drag on a ball in flight.

However, high humidity and dampness gets the baseball wet. The collision with the bat becomes less inelastic. The ball is softer and gives. There is less initial velocity as it leaves the bat. This effect is quite pronounced. It’s why they humidify the balls in Denver to compensate for the lower atmospheric drag at that park. It’s not because Denver is so dry.

The statement you corrected however was “the dampness held the ball in the park” or something like that which would imply the atmospherics did it which is incorrect as you stated.

stickman

Zito: Win one for Mavo.

Sf Fan

Mavo, thanks for keeping the faith.

I have to admit I was down after last nite….but after reading your post I am ready for tonights game.

Let’s Go Giants!

CB the DodgerH8ter

Perhaps it is fitting that today, Oct 19th, we will be fighting not against tyranny or oppression but for our very existence. For our right to live. And should we win this day, Oct 19th will no longer be known as an American holiday, but the day the world stood up and in one voice said, We will not go quietly into that night. We will not vanish without a fight. We will not let a stupid small red bird beat us. For today is our Independence day!!!!!!

CG

Bochy lost the any chance to win when he had Cain bunt. Made no sense then makes no sense now.

CB the DodgerH8ter

Rudy! Rudy!

Clap…….Clap…..Clap…Clap..Clap.Clap.Clap.Clap

This is our Independence Day.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite!

I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don’t let us f@ck this aZZhole, we’re going to have our dicks and puzzies all covered in sheet!

Are you not entertained?

They can take our lives, but they can never take out FREEDOM!!!!!!!

rodbecksmustache

Today, this is my mantra, which I found above: “Win today, and all bets are off.”

I shall chant it in between sips of my root beer float.

Hermann

My lineup choice for tonight:

Pagan
Scutaro
Pence
Posey
Sandoval
Nady
Belt
Crawford
Zito

al oha

Win today, and all bets are ON!

I’ve got the Giants for $200 at 20-1 odds.
I’ve got the Cardinals for $100 at 6-1 odds.

C’mon Giants, you can do it.

rodbecksmustache

Not liking Baer’s gushing about St. Louis though, nor Krukow’s. It’s reached asinine levels. You have to respect a franchise with that kind of success, and respect your opponent, but you don’t have to elevate them with exaggerated, boyish hyperbole. At games one and two, my observation of their fans’ behavior wouldn’t be termed “classy,” and any organization that can’t objectively acknowledge dirty play on behalf of its players needs its integrity questioned.

Take the high road, but there’s no need to bring your opposition in tow.

rodbecksmustache

Hahahaha! @al, nice flip. Giants win today, and I’m putting some green on the home team.

Matthew

Loving the glare from the mound from Rod Beck and his ‘satchel… Totally agree on the pandering over-respect. Yes, I too respect the organization… To a level.

The other area of over-the-top commentary for me is how the game story is coming out. It appears that most journalists ( Alex is pretty much an exception) are reveling in a form of schadenfreude over Timmy’s outing last night… And writing as if he was the sole responsible party… It may be because they only have so much space allotted to their story. But the lack of depth and the lazy method of picking the convenient target is tiring.

Of course, like QB’s, pitchers are given too much credit AND too much blame. I just find most of what I am reading today in the aftermath to be shallow and easy, with no depth in analyzing how he supposedly “fell apart”…it’s a team game ran by a manager… Many of the contributors play key roles in the results. Timmy is being ripped based on history and 4 runs against, yet the mitigating factors besides his contribution are barely mentioned, or not mentioned at all…

Matthew

*stache became ‘ satchel…

Sorry, Rod

Woj

Sure would be nice to have an OF today of Melky, Pagan and Blanco. Even Melky off the bench hitting at 80% or whatever of what he was doing would be valuable. It would save part of my sanity knowing the Giants owners maximized the chances of winning by putting Melky on this roster instead of has-beens like Mota and Huff. Nonsensical that a 2 time PEDer owning a 5+ ERA was added but not Melky. And a guy who literally QUIT on his own team in N.Y. in June – Huff – and it a walking gimp hitting .180 would be on the roster as more ‘valuable’ than Melky. If elimination comes today, please ask Bochy/Sabean and especially Garlic Fries Baer those tough questions.

al oha

What rodbecksmustache said:
October 19th, 2012 at 11:05 am,

Very well put. I totally concur.

Nothing would satisfy me more than seeing the Giants win this one, bring it back to AT&T and the best, most enthusiastic FANS in the MLB, and stick it to the whole lot of Cardinal bandwagoneers.

This growing MYTH of St. Louis having the best, most knowledgeable fans in Baseball is getting nauseating. I suspect it may have ended when the classy Jack Buck passed away. Since then, less eloquent homers like Mike Shannon, Tim McCarver, Joe Buck, and others perpetuating the Myth is bad enough, but to have Krukow and Baer stroking them too, is a little more than I can stomach.

Go Giants! Kick some A$$ and show them where they can stick it!

Anti-Lasorda

It about the pitching….. we won 2010 because of it, we’re down in this series because of it.

Right now, everyone except Vogey looks tired or overwhelmed. What was supposed to be our strength, is now our weakeness. This is the toll the 2011 season took on the rotation trying to defend with PUTRID run support. Their arms threw so many high stress innings, becuase falling behind 1-0 was high stress; the mental grinding every out, every pitch has left Timmy in tatters. They all need the off-season AND I would put them on VERY light loads in the spring. That being said, I hope to increase the staffs burden at least 7 more games

I just wonder if the window is closed….

Vogey has one more year, at most. Cain can’t do 250 innings, MadBum is gassed after his work load, and I sure hope the rest allows him to bounce back and Timmy… well… he needs to close next year.

I hope Larry and Sabes at least whisper sweet nothings in Grienke’s ear, or talk to Haren after Anahiem dumps him. The needs at least one arm for the rotation. Maybe two.

Okay enough about next year.

#RallyZito – respect the streak…

LET’S GO ZITO!

LET’S GO GIANTS!

michael

Woj and others

ENOUGH of the Melky talk…….decision was made, and like it or not it is our reality. No matter how you feel about Melky, assuming he would have been the salvation and blaming others who made the roster instead of him is a waste of time. Get over it! We are where we are and have have a decent half of the season and post season without him. The constant carrying on about him serves no purpose and adds nothing to the discussion. Please can we just let it go?

Each and every-fan-poster knows the game in their own respective way, yet it may be doubtful that the knowledge which we all possess has any bearing on the professional game over the grind of 162+. The game that we love and watch as well as all our assertions are born out of things we remember working during a magical season that we watched, an amazing comeback that we attended or something that happened during one of our LL, HS or College games.

There is not really much that separates the 16/14 (soon to be 15/15) teams from each other. However those small separations make for huge differences in the eventual standings at the end of the year. Some of us have our favorite expressions. One of the ones I struggle with from others is that games in April and May count just as much. I know on the surface they do – but in the 162 scheme – No they don’t. Using 100-62 for example, it matters only what happens down the stretch and within one’s own division eventually (as well as not getting too far behind)

The issue surrounding many clubs is sustainability. There are many examples of teams that flourish out of the spring training chute right up to hitting their “wall”. Pirates, Indians… Then there are the fabled franchises both in name, payroll and name players who either did not get to the post season or who were swept.

We continue to make statements as if they would be fact – If they were “JUST done another way.” (..we would have won..)

I think on paper that Blanco would make a wonderful leadoff hitter but in my eyes I would bat him 9th in the American League system. Pagan, when moved to five seemed to throw off his mental game. Pagan led off 79 times and Blanco 70 times. Pagan batted 2nd – once, 3rd – twice, 4th – five times, 5th – 45 times, 6th – 17 times. Blanco has batted 6th – 15 times and 8th – five times.

Unless unsatisfactory effort is apparent with the naked eye, every player is capable of helping his team win or NOT doing something to help his team win. We should take one of our cues from players raw uncensored quotes – Crawford said I tried to long hop him, if I had it to do all over again I’d hit him in the chest. In College and HS the other MIF, in this case Scutaro has his head on a swivel and he is Crawford’s eyes but in lower levels the MIF not fielding the ball “might” also be hollering “you’ve got time” – but at the MLB level all those moments are apparently understood.

I actually think SF’s pedal IS to the metal and we are getting all that they have to give us up to now and for that I am happy, blessed and thankful. There are many flaws to overcome both now/today and during the off season. “Name on the Front” … brothers and sisters …

al oha

I will forever be silenced regarding the Giants’ signing of Barry Zito for a King’s Ransom and consider it money well EARNED, if he can go out and pitch 2 Career-defining Games.

The first one tonight and the second one in the World Series.

We’re all rooting for you, Zeets!

michael

Clutch Up:

“I actually think SF’s pedal IS to the metal and we are getting all that they have to give us up to now and for that I am happy, blessed and thankful. There are many flaws to overcome both now/today and during the off season. “Name on the Front” … brothers and sisters …”

Amen!!!!

JC

It’s DO or DIE tonight. Win or go home. Simple as that. It is either the Cards winning the NL pennant and going to its 2nd straight World Series or it is the Giants postponing those Cards plans for at least a couple more days and take this fight back to SF.

And if we win today in Game 5, I like our chances in SF at home with Vogelsong going Game 6 and Cain Game 7, if it goes that far. But all decks are off. I would play Nady today to get his bat in there. And Posey needs o be behind the plate. Sorry Hector. Belt back at 1B.

This isn’t complicated or even controversial. So far, the Cardinals are the better team.

JC

Regardless of what happens, this has been a successful season thus far. We have our flaws and our pitching isn’t as strong as it used to be. So, we have been fighting to win the division and cruise into the postseason. We fought to win the Cincy series in the NLDS and now we have our backs against the wall vs the defending champ Cards. To me, their bullpen is lights out and have too many offensive weapons. Giants have weapons offensively, but their biggest guns aren’t doing much until at the end, when it was too late. Posey, Sandoval, Pence, etc. So we shall see what kind of fight we got when our backs are against the wall. Are we going to rollover vs Lynn and let the Cards cruise into the World Series or are we going to fight till the last out, hit the pedal to the metal?

CB

Giants are fighting hard. They’re pitching is just not good enough to matchup with the Cards potent offense. Cards are clearly the better team and their bullpen is flat out legit and lights out. Our bullpen was lights out until yesterday. Lincecum battled still and it should have only been 2 runs allowed for him, had Hector come up with the easy one hop at the plate to get Carpenter out and would have kept the score 2-1. But yeah, play was not made. Cards kept momentum and took over from there.

But yeah, Zito is the Wild Card on this team and he brings his streak on the line today with the Giants life on the line as well. Bottom line is, we need to score runs, we need to win!

rodbecksmustache

@Mathhew – No prob!

Agreed again – if you project a little brother attitude, that’s all you’re going to be.

Sad to hear about Timmy re: the articles though. He was clearly massively disappointed with himself in the dugout. That was one of the first times I’ve personally seen him with facial expressions that expressed that disappointment. And, I can’t help but imagine that some portion of that Schadenfreude is actually a projection of their feelings for the city in general, manifested on an individual people think of as representing their perceptions of it. That’s something I can personally care less about, but that it might reflect on Timmy would be a bummer for me.

As you say it’s a team game. My personal feeling is that it really began to unravel with the throw home to Hector. Not to blame either player, but that felt like the catalyst for me.

Timmy has carried himself very well though through all the struggles though, and I think he deserves a lot of credit for that. It’s a credit to his character, IMO. I’m not sure any Giant wants to win more than he does.

Happ2125

Not sure how much fight Giants have left after looking deflated in yesterday’s loss. Cards look cocky and confident and feel that they got this one in the bag. Lets give it to them tonight and put a halt to these cocky Cards. It can’t be that easy for the Cards, can it?

X-Factors tonight: Bullpen and Buster Posey, who has been shutdown this series thus far and has been a non-factor offensively. He needs a big night and we need a huge night from bullpen to back Zito.

al oha

Note to Barry Zito:

I would like to take this time to acknowledge my admiration and appreciation for the outstanding season you have delivered. This, among the many adversities and doubts bestowed upon you whether self-inflicted and earned or imagined, you have persevered and overcome. It is still difficult for the fanbase to elevate your performance over your fellow Starting Pitcher Peers, but it is hard to deny the results over your last 12 starts. We stand behind you and root whole-heartedly for your success to continue and for you to lead the Team back home for more excitement. Give ‘em all you got, Barry, here’s hoping for the best and most enjoyable plane ride from St. Louis to San Francisco that you have ever had.

totalfan62

Great range of posts today from a wide and disparate group of Giants fans. Most of us still keeping the faith, and that’s heartwarming to see. Mavo: we love you, buddy. You know many of us are lifting prayers and encouragement. Very inspirational posts today. Thank you.

Let’s all focus on tonight. Let’s focus OUR energy, mojo, juju–whatever you wish to call it–on getting a win tonight. If the Cardinals are to win the NL Pennant, let’s make them travel to San Francisco and win it on the road. I’m tired of all the Cardinals verbiage coming from Buck and McCarver, and would like nothing better to make them eat those words.

There is no other game but tonight’s game. Bochy, put the best defensive team on the field, go back to the batting order that got us here, and LET’S GET SOME RUNS!!

I wish I wish I wish I could have not dumped you that one summer 8 years ago in favor of this creep I’m with now. Looking back if I hadnt put myself through so much trama I wouldnt weigh about 290 today.

Melky is a big boy. Coming to news stands soon. One of his girlfriends is expecting his or hers or oh god Im so confused fourth child next spring training just in time for him to have to leave Yankees spring training and once again use the mlb paternity leave time off. What a crock.

ClutchUp

SCityJim always puts things in prospective: He said there is one AL team moving on and two NL teams still alive, which means fans and the other teams are done – and SF is still a tiny bit alive. I still felt awkward when we clinched going away. I somehow wanted the Pennant to come down to those last three games at Vin Scully Stadium. St. Louis is the World Champs, I don’t know how some of us don’t see that their personal recipe works just as well if not better than ours. Mucho home grown position players, two-three mercenaries (Berkman-Holliday-Beltran) and HUGE right handed Power Arms. Yesterday they brought out 91 yr old Stan Musial and then there was 89 yr old Red Schoendienst in full uniform at the batting cage. WoW.

Two storied franchises going at each other. If it happens to return to SF, look for every SF HOF to be in attendance. Dusty Baker when at SF – had two special favorite quotes.
-Practice Random Acts of Kindness (us SF Fans to each other)
-Win One Game In a Row (Go on tiny One game winning streaks)

http://www.na.com orngendblck

That play at the plate was huge but you can’t fault Hector or Crawford for not getting it done, it is just one of those plays, could have, should have, but didn’t.

Can Zito get it done? Sure and we can stop Global Warming as well. Belt had some good at bats against Lynn so I would look for him to start tonight.

If the Giants go on to lose, I thnk they will look back at games 1 and 3 and see how close they were. In game 1 Bochy left Madbum in too long and in game 3 there were so many missed opportunities. In series like this it is so often the little guy who turns into the big hero and I would have to say Carpenter has been the guy for the Cardinals.

Die Hard Giants Fan

Funny thing is that Zito will win today. The odds are in the Giants favor. Then Vogelson wins Sunday – the way he has been pitching it’s a lock. That leaves game 7 to Cain. Which normally would be welcome news but right now the only sure thing is Zito and Vogie.

Foothills Ryan

I’m pretty sure Zito can throw a shut out and Belt can go deep AND we can reverse global warming AND we can jumpstart a green economy and have a peaceful Israel, Iran, Afghanistan region.

You can never give up hope. When Pandora opened the box, what was left at the bottom? Exactly.

That’s why you guys are the best. Your optimism has picked me up. I’m going through stages. Yesterday was grief. Actually I had considerable grief after a very disappointing game 3. Then yesterday happened and I was done. Resigned to the team’s fate and looking to 2013. Now, I don’t know where I am. I feel like I should jump back on the optimism bandwagon.

Hope dies last !!

Die Hard Giants Fan

Regarding the play at the plate, I wonder if Pence is hitting, does Bochy put Posey behind the plate and keep Belt at first – strong defensive line up? Then Buster makes the play at home. With Pence not hitting Bochy is forced to juggle the line up for some extra hitting.

Foothills Ryan

PS – I’m starting the Vogelsong 2013 opening day starter movement. He deserves it for his body of work, his personal story and his work in the playoffs. Let’s get him another start !! Do it for Vogey!

on the other hand, I don’t think could bear the though of Cain getting shelled in game 7 and going into the offseason with that taste in the mouth on top of Bumgarner being effectively shelved.

That’s right! You’d think Bumgarner would be pitching this game. Imaginatelo! If the Giants starters had IT, they’d be ahead 3-1 in this series. And so it goes…

Die Hard Giants Fan

#167, Giants had the same look after getting shell shocked by the Reds after game 2. A pep talk from Pence, Zito’s start, and a desire to not spend the winter embarrassed as heck turned it around. Forget the talk, these guys are pros. Zito’s start and another desire to be mocked this winter for what many will perceive as a giant (no pun intended) choke will make this a seven game series.

Anti-Lasorda

al oha says:
October 19th, 2012 at 11:39 am 154..I will forever be silenced regarding the Giants’ signing of Barry Zito for a King’s Ransom and consider it money well EARNED, if he can go out and pitch 2 Career-defining Games.

Thank you for all the shout outs about my posting early this morning … they truly give me strength!! Obrother, yes I got your posting about LDN and thank you … I will investigate it.

Now, back to baseball and this will be very simple:

LET’S GO GIANTS WE CAN DO THIS!!!!!

Sonia H

Matthew says:
“I still say the talent is there…his lack of control seems mechanical, which then leads to mental collapse. He appears to be fragile for the second time in his Giants career (8/10 being the other short stretch) and I don’t see the proper decisions above him to help lead him out of those woods. I won’t go too far on an anti-Bochy rant, but will say this supposed masterful management of pitching staffs appears overrated , or at minimum challenged this season.”

Thank you, Matthew. You said nothing but the truth.

Giants dont have a clue of what to do or how to fix Lincecum.

Lincecum needs to start from zero, in another city, in another team, in the bullpen, with another coaches. Mentally speaking, that will help him a lot.

Ken Rosenthal wrote this morning that Lincecum doesnt care like “some others” about money, but he cares about his career.

So you guys can keep bitching about his salary, but I dont think money will be an obstacle in case they trade him.

You will get rid of him, dont worry about that.

Its time to move on, Timmy. Please move on.

P.D. Zito? Not that I care, but it seems like it will end today.

Sonia’s Mommy and Daddy

Sonie darling, please, come home and take your meds. That time that snaggle-toothed Timmy rejected you, Uncle and I know you’ve never been the same. Please honey, come home to Papa and Madea.

What name did you used to log on with before, you sweet young thang.

orangeandblack

There was some good play by individual Giants last night. Unfortunately it didn’t add up to a winning team effort. We got the Timmy starter thing out of the way. Let’s win this one and keep going.