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I'll challenge this – I don't think it takes a mastermind to say, "Hey let's get rid of the guy who keeps nagging us with his horrible idea. It's annoying"

No, it doesn't. But it also doesn't take a mastermind to see that writing “I love it.” in response to an email where I am propositioned to receive information from the Russian state on then-candidate Clinton.

I think a plausible interpretation of the events is that the Trump campaign is ok with the analog of Ensign Rickey to do the dirty work so as to give itself plausible deniability. Nevertheless, Papadopoulos received encouragement from other members of the Trump campaign after reaching out to “the Professor” (Sam Clovis, another policy advisor, is quoted as writing “Great work!”). That was weeks before the meeting between Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort with the “Russian lawyer”, and before other people affiliated with the Trump campaign alluded to the possibility of Clinton emails being released. Given that timeline, I think it is plausible that there was indeed collusion, and that Papadopoulos was acting in according with the wishes of the campaign.

Word is Clovis (Pap's direct superior) testified in front of the grand jury. No one in the White House knew.

Also:

The former director of the Trump campaign's national security advisory committee, JD Gordon, said that he and Jeff Sessions, then the committee's chairman, "did not know" about George Papadopoulos' emails.

"[I]n my opinion, actions of and statements by Mr. Yiannopoulos have caused pain and divisiveness undermining the open and productive discourse that I had hoped to facilitate. I was mistaken to have supported him."

"[I]n my opinion, actions of and statements by Mr. Yiannopoulos have caused pain and divisiveness undermining the open and productive discourse that I had hoped to facilitate. I was mistaken to have supported him."

Guy got within visual range of an apology.

What do you think prompted this almost apology? His critique has been obvious for over a year.

Add Wilbur Ross to the list of cabinet members that 'forgot' items on their disclosure relating to Russia.

This is like a broken record: Trump official did not disclose connections to Russia. In the late 1990s, it was a scandal that Bill Clinton perjured himself over a blowjob.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

I don't even think he's tied to whatever Russia stuff Team Trump is involved with. He's just so rich its inevitable that he's done shady stuff.

I would be more nuanced here: if Ross were a private citizen, all of these dealings would be ok. Not disclosing them during his hearing while under oath as well as potentially violating the emoluments clause* is not ok. Now the Trump administration's official in charge of trade has recused himself in all matters relating to shipping.

* I'm trying to be careful. I am sure that if he had asked an ethics lawyer worth his or her salt, they would have advised him to divest.

Gordon said on Monday that he didn't "recall all of Carter Page's emails."

"I was getting thousands of emails on the campaign and didn't read all of them," he told Business Insider. "I discouraged Carter from taking the trip to Moscow in the first place because it was a bad idea ... He eventually went around me directly to campaign leadership."

The campaign manager at the time, Corey Lewandowski, approved Page's trip, Gordon said.

"Did you ever express support for the idea of lifting US sanctions on Russia with Mr. Baranov?" Schiff asked.

"Not directly," Page said.

Asked whether he had ever met the overseas professor who told Papadopoulos about the Kremlin's dossier of incriminating Clinton emails, Joseph Mifsud, Page at first said, "No."

But he then seemed to backtrack.

"You know, there may have been a greeting," he said. "I have no recollection of ever interacting with him in any way, shape or form ... I have no personal relationship with him."

Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?

Status:
Offline

Nov 8, 2017, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

So, no charges, no smoking guns.

What is a reasonable timeframe for a federal case of this magnitude? Do you believe that if nothing has been revealed by now, that nothing will ever be revealed?

If someone on the opposing political side said of Hillary's emails, "Anyone been charged yet?" would you say to yourself, "Yes, that is the level of proof I require of my political enemies and I accept that the Clinton campaign did nothing wrong."?

What is a reasonable timeframe for a federal case of this magnitude? Do you believe that if nothing has been revealed by now, that nothing will ever be revealed?

It is quite clear that this is only Mueller's opening salvo that is meant to send a clear message: cooperate now and you can expect leniency (Papadopoulos model). Or we throw the book at you (Manafort model). Also, Mueller doesn't want to tip off people on what he knows, but if you read the court documents carefully, it is clear that he elected to strike a balance between being aggressive and not putting all your cards on the table. I think the next person are Michael Flynn Jr. and Sr., and eventually Trump's family.

Interpreting this as “See, there is nothing there!” is wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by Laminar

If someone on the opposing political side said of Hillary's emails, "Anyone been charged yet?" would you say to yourself, "Yes, that is the level of proof I require of my political enemies and I accept that the Clinton campaign did nothing wrong."?

It is evident that Clinton and Trump are not measured the same way. Even without a Trump involvement, so far 9 people connected to either Trump's campaign, Trump's White House or his closest family members have been caught red-handed lying about Russia-related stuff.

This may have been covered before but Flynn was considering a plan to kidnap someone off US soil and deliver them to Turkey for $15 mil.

They're probably talking about Fethullah Gulen, a Muslim cleric based in the US. Apparently President Erdogan considers Gulen the mastermind behind the military coup attempt. Turkey's been trying to talk the US into extraditing him. Not happening so far, on account of Gulen not having broken any laws. And he denies masterminding the coup. I was under the impression military officers took orders from their generals, not obscure clerics in another country.

A data firm that worked for President Donald Trump's campaign reached out to WikiLeaks during the campaign about obtaining emails related to Democrat Hillary Clinton, the company's CEO said.

Alexander Nix, CEO of Cambridge Analytica, said the approach was in "early June 2016" after WikiLeaks Editor Julian Assange had publicly claimed he had Clinton emails and planned to publish them. Nix said his company asked a speaker's agency representing Assange whether WikiLeaks "might share that information," but Assange turned him down.

---

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

If when this is over dirt isn't found on Nunes I'll be surprised. Guy is doing a full court press to protect Trump.

Republican Rep. Devin Nunes, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, attended a breakfast meeting in January that Michael Flynn, then the incoming national security adviser, and Mevlut Cavusoglu, the Turkish foreign minister, also attended.

The invitation, obtained by the newspaper, said the breakfast would "be a small event for about 50-60 guests" and that the incoming White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, "might join the meeting," Daily Sabah reported.

Nunes' spokesman, who did not return a request for comment on Friday, issued a statement earlier this year downplaying the importance of the breakfast.

"Chairman Nunes was a speaker at that event, but it was a large breakfast event, not a small, private meeting as described in that article," the spokesman, Jack Langer, told the fact-checking website Snopes.l

Well, now I know how Nunes is connected to the Trump White House. Flynn is like the worst person to have been connected with.

This may have been covered before but Flynn was considering a plan to kidnap someone off US soil and deliver them to Turkey for $15 mil.

Actually, further commentary. How is Flynn not in jail? Last I heard, kidnapping was a felony. Conspiracy to commit kidnap should qualify too. Delivery to another country is automatically Federal jurisdiction. And $15 mil is felony territory by itself.

Do you get off the hook if you were "just talking" about it? While checking your bank balance, weighing how bad you need the $15M?

Actually, further commentary. How is Flynn not in jail? Last I heard, kidnapping was a felony. Conspiracy to commit kidnap should qualify too. Delivery to another country is automatically Federal jurisdiction. And $15 mil is felony territory by itself.

I reckon he has flipped or Mueller's team is working on flipping him. Flynn is a big fish, but if this goes further, they want the really big fish. Given what is public, it is quite likely that at least Trump's closest advisers (read: his son and his son in law) are implicated.

Actually, further commentary. How is Flynn not in jail? Last I heard, kidnapping was a felony. Conspiracy to commit kidnap should qualify too. Delivery to another country is automatically Federal jurisdiction. And $15 mil is felony territory by itself.

Do you get off the hook if you were "just talking" about it? While checking your bank balance, weighing how bad you need the $15M?

Two fairly obvious answers here (To me):

1. He wasn't involved in a plot to kidnap Gulen. Notably his lawyers denied this charge today when they haven't commented on previous stories.

2. The more likely answer: Mueller isn't done with his digging into Flynn. Investigations don't end at the first sign of a crime. Flynn did a lot of shady shit on his own, but given Trump's loyalty to him it's seems probably he did some illegal/unethical things for the campaign as well.

Actually, I have a third possibility: They need to finish building a case against his son so they can exert pressure on him to flip when the time comes.

Actually, I have a third possibility: They need to finish building a case against his son so they can exert pressure on him to flip when the time comes.

I almost forgot about this option, too: it seems that there are multiple avenues of criminal behavior, and perhaps Mueller's team wants to maximize the impact once it presses charges. Also, once they press charges, they will tip off other players, too, so they may want to keep their cards close to their chests.