I just realized you could lean FIRE easily by visiting China one day, then coming back. Free room & board & medical for two weeks. Plane tickets to China are cheap these days, so you could repeat as soon you are released.

Discuss.

It's easier to just start stabbing people on the street. Then you'll be arrested and put in jail. Free laundry, free food, free accommodations, free heating. Really no down side at all.

I flew out of Sydney (Australia) yesterday and at the entrance to security they asked every one if they had been to China in the last 2 weeks. The check-in machine also asked, so it looks like a person asking is a newer measure.

Lots of people wearing masks at both Sydney and Christchurch airports. I think Air New Zealand has cancelled most if not all flights to China.

Imo it would be pretty dumb to travel to Asia right now. The personal risk from COVID-19 is pretty low, but if you bring it home with you and infect your city you would rightly feel pretty guilty a out the excess deaths you caused.

1) Risk of quarantine. We won't know for another month or so whether quarantines are going to continue to be the response or if they will finally admit that the horse is out of the barn and there is no use in quarantining anyone anymore. I do not expect the attempt to restrict this virus to China to be successful because of the large percentage of cases that are asymptomatic or mild, like a common cold, and the inability to test everyone with a cold for the virus. (Also the current test gives a lot of false negatives.) Traveling to any foreign country, even European countries, might include a risk of being quarantined there if that is the response to future outbreaks. Soon the US will be unable to bring back all quarantined or infected Americans. Do buy traveler's health insurance if you go and if you're traveling to third world countries, buy insurance with Medevac coverage. On the other hand, a month from now they may finally admit it's too late for quarantines and your risk traveling may be no greater than your risk of contracting it at home.

2) Risk of contracting it while traveling: Planes with their recycled air, crowded airports, trains and buses may increase your risk if you aren't normally exposed to crowds. Washing your hands frequently and wearing a mask will protect you from a lot of that risk (not all). Masks are not available to buy but fairly easy to sew if you know someone with sewing skills. Not as good as a N95 mask but pretty good for this use (I've been making some for my family). I wouldn't go on a cruise ship right now as they are germ factories in the best of situations (but then again, I don't go on cruises anyway because I have the worlds worst motion sickness).

3) Inexpensive travel opportunities: once the virus is widespread and quarantines are no longer being used, traveling may not pose a bigger risk than being home if you wash hands frequently and wear a mask. If you're young and healthy you may be able to pick up some killer travel deals because the travel industry will be hurting.

4) Perspective - the true fatality rate is most likely in the 0.3-0.6% range. This would put the likelihood of US deaths, if 20% of the population contracts the virus, at about 4-8 times a typical flu season's deaths. Not exactly zombie apocalypse numbers, but concerning. It is unknown whether this virus will be seasonal or not - if it is, it may start to die down for the summer and recur next winter.

5) Countries not reporting coronavirus - do not assume that Africa, South America, and especially Indonesia are safe because they aren't reporting coronavirus cases yet. Indonesia almost certainly DOES have cases, based on the spread in surrounding countries, so the lack of reported cases is suspicious. Africa has numerous ties to China and almost certainly has the virus too but lacks the public health capacity to test for it efficiently.

In short - assume it will not be successfully contained to China, there's no predicting how other countries will respond as it starts to spread, washing hands and wearing a mask are your best protection, 90% of cases may be mild or asymptomatic, older people and people with underlying health conditions are at the most risk but even healthy young people can die of it. I predict that in 2 months we will have a much clearer picture of how other countries will respond to the eventual spread, and whether it will start to die down for the summer - or not.

Oh - and don't wait around for a vaccine. It will probably be two years before there is enough for routine vaccinations at a minimum.

I ended up in urgent care last week with a nasty cough. I was concerned it might be pneumonia, and when I was still getting worse after a week, I went in. It's hard to overstate how terrible I sounded, and at one point during my wait, I coughed so hard I threw up. I also live in the DC area, with lots of international visitors.

I was curious to see if CV affected the experience at all.

The initial check in was a touch screen, and the first two questions, even before "name" were, "Have you traveled to China in the last two weeks" And "Have you spent time in the last two weeks with anyone who has traveled to China". (That may not be verbatim.) Other than that, it wasn't mentioned. The intake nurse and doctor both didn't ask me about it (though presumably they had access to that info.) And no one seemed bothered by a person with an atrocious cough sitting around for two hours. I did put on a mask, though I wasn't asked to.

(By they way, it was, surprisingly to me since it was all cough and barely a tickle in my throat, strep.)

I ended up in urgent care last week with a nasty cough. I was concerned it might be pneumonia, and when I was still getting worse after a week, I went in. It's hard to overstate how terrible I sounded, and at one point during my wait, I coughed so hard I threw up. I also live in the DC area, with lots of international visitors.

I was curious to see if CV affected the experience at all.

The initial check in was a touch screen, and the first two questions, even before "name" were, "Have you traveled to China in the last two weeks" And "Have you spent time in the last two weeks with anyone who has traveled to China". (That may not be verbatim.) Other than that, it wasn't mentioned. The intake nurse and doctor both didn't ask me about it (though presumably they had access to that info.) And no one seemed bothered by a person with an atrocious cough sitting around for two hours. I did put on a mask, though I wasn't asked to.

(By they way, it was, surprisingly to me since it was all cough and barely a tickle in my throat, strep.)

I think if you had answered "Yes" to either of those questions, your experience may have been different. When we flew back to Toronto from Shanghai three weeks ago, we naturally had to answer "Yes" to the first question, which prompted the question as to whether we had traveled to Wuhan within the past two weeks. We then waited until they checked our passports and confirmed we had not used them to travel to Wuhan before letting us leave.

H was in the ER last weekend in Mpls, and they didn't ask him about contact with China until he was back in a bed in the ER. I was surprised- I thought that they would ask the minute we stepped in the door. ( he wasn't having an active emergency when we arrived).

1) Risk of quarantine. We won't know for another month or so whether quarantines are going to continue to be the response or if they will finally admit that the horse is out of the barn and there is no use in quarantining anyone anymore. I do not expect the attempt to restrict this virus to China to be successful because of the large percentage of cases that are asymptomatic or mild, like a common cold, and the inability to test everyone with a cold for the virus. (Also the current test gives a lot of false negatives.) Traveling to any foreign country, even European countries, might include a risk of being quarantined there if that is the response to future outbreaks. Soon the US will be unable to bring back all quarantined or infected Americans. Do buy traveler's health insurance if you go and if you're traveling to third world countries, buy insurance with Medevac coverage. On the other hand, a month from now they may finally admit it's too late for quarantines and your risk traveling may be no greater than your risk of contracting it at home.

2) Risk of contracting it while traveling: Planes with their recycled air, crowded airports, trains and buses may increase your risk if you aren't normally exposed to crowds. Washing your hands frequently and wearing a mask will protect you from a lot of that risk (not all). Masks are not available to buy but fairly easy to sew if you know someone with sewing skills. Not as good as a N95 mask but pretty good for this use (I've been making some for my family). I wouldn't go on a cruise ship right now as they are germ factories in the best of situations (but then again, I don't go on cruises anyway because I have the worlds worst motion sickness).

3) Inexpensive travel opportunities: once the virus is widespread and quarantines are no longer being used, traveling may not pose a bigger risk than being home if you wash hands frequently and wear a mask. If you're young and healthy you may be able to pick up some killer travel deals because the travel industry will be hurting.

4) Perspective - the true fatality rate is most likely in the 0.3-0.6% range. This would put the likelihood of US deaths, if 20% of the population contracts the virus, at about 4-8 times a typical flu season's deaths. Not exactly zombie apocalypse numbers, but concerning. It is unknown whether this virus will be seasonal or not - if it is, it may start to die down for the summer and recur next winter.

5) Countries not reporting coronavirus - do not assume that Africa, South America, and especially Indonesia are safe because they aren't reporting coronavirus cases yet. Indonesia almost certainly DOES have cases, based on the spread in surrounding countries, so the lack of reported cases is suspicious. Africa has numerous ties to China and almost certainly has the virus too but lacks the public health capacity to test for it efficiently.

In short - assume it will not be successfully contained to China, there's no predicting how other countries will respond as it starts to spread, washing hands and wearing a mask are your best protection, 90% of cases may be mild or asymptomatic, older people and people with underlying health conditions are at the most risk but even healthy young people can die of it. I predict that in 2 months we will have a much clearer picture of how other countries will respond to the eventual spread, and whether it will start to die down for the summer - or not.

Oh - and don't wait around for a vaccine. It will probably be two years before there is enough for routine vaccinations at a minimum.

This is really informative. Now that it has spread to other countries, it is interesting to see the reactions of people and actions that are being taken. Some of those actions/reactions are more scary then the virus! Now that Spain quarantined a hotel and Italy several towns I imagine there will be others that follow suit. And of course yesterdays market (haven't check today). Seems like a cascade has begun but too soon to tell. If course its a great time for travel deals!!

I ended up in urgent care last week with a nasty cough. I was concerned it might be pneumonia, and when I was still getting worse after a week, I went in. It's hard to overstate how terrible I sounded, and at one point during my wait, I coughed so hard I threw up. I also live in the DC area, with lots of international visitors.

I was curious to see if CV affected the experience at all.

The initial check in was a touch screen, and the first two questions, even before "name" were, "Have you traveled to China in the last two weeks" And "Have you spent time in the last two weeks with anyone who has traveled to China". (That may not be verbatim.) Other than that, it wasn't mentioned. The intake nurse and doctor both didn't ask me about it (though presumably they had access to that info.) And no one seemed bothered by a person with an atrocious cough sitting around for two hours. I did put on a mask, though I wasn't asked to.

(By they way, it was, surprisingly to me since it was all cough and barely a tickle in my throat, strep.)

My understanding is that there is a severe shortage of coronavirus test kits in the US. So, not sure how aggressively they can even try to test/diagnose at this point.

We are contemplating ditching some work trips and a summer Europe trip. Of course, if quarantining stops, we will go. A two week quarantine away from home would be disastrous both work wise and if with the kids.

I have a business trip to Italy that will probably get cancelled. I'm still fine with going. Yes, there are 300+ cases..... out of 60 million people. And there's an 80% chance that if I do get it, it will be no worse than the common cold (many of which are caused by other forms of coronavirus).

My only concern would be getting stuck there for a few weeks if they started shutting down flights on the way back or restricting travel out of the area I would be going.

We are monitoring the situation carefully. I had wanted to fly to Asia around now. But am recovering from pneumonia and DH says there is no way I should expose my weaker body to any possibility of the coronavirus. So we wait. Hoping to travel to Asia in late spring/early summer if the situation stabilizes but DH says, "we will see".

In the meantime, we have booked flights to Florida in March and April and plan to go although DH is concerned about it spreading in the US so we continue to read reports daily.

We have been adjusting our travel plans a bit. When we went to Toronto a couple of weeks ago, we avoided the big Chinese mall (mostly because I am still in recovery and my immune system is likely weak). And when we went to Florida a few weeks back, we washed our hands obsessively and were super careful about touching our faces and our food.

I live in Europe but my company has cancelled all business trips to areas affected by corona virus. In addition, we are actively discouraged from (international) business travel. I just had to cancel business trips planned in 2 weeks to currently unaffected areas.

I have booked a flight transiting through Singapore to Sydney in May for personal travel and my employer is asking me to reconsider my travel plans and the risk it might imply to my colleagues.

They canít tell me what to do on my own time, but I may have to work from home for 2 weeks after transiting through Singapore... if they really donít want me to go via Singapore they have the option of paying for an alternate flight for me that bypasses Asia.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I remember traveling through Singapore airport during the SARS outbreak and thought at that time that the airport were taking necessary precautions. You couldnít get off the plane if they detected a fever for instance.

What's weird to me is that, based on some of the responses, it seems the cruise and tour companies are cancelling trips that are many month away and paying big buck to do that. Do they really feel that things will be worse 7 months or longer from now or are they just erring on the side of caution?

I was hoping to go to Italy in May with family, but now they are putting off any concrete plans for the moment, so I'm not sure if I'll still go. Even if I do book, I'd probably get travel insurance just in case. For now my plan is just to wait and see for the next little while.

I was hoping to go to Italy in May with family, but now they are putting off any concrete plans for the moment, so I'm not sure if I'll still go. Even if I do book, I'd probably get travel insurance just in case. For now my plan is just to wait and see for the next little while.

Ha, exact same for me (Italy, May, holding off). None of us booked yet, we might revisit for later in the year and possibly another destination.

I was hoping to go to Italy in May with family, but now they are putting off any concrete plans for the moment, so I'm not sure if I'll still go. Even if I do book, I'd probably get travel insurance just in case. For now my plan is just to wait and see for the next little while.

Ha, exact same for me (Italy, May, holding off). None of us booked yet, we might revisit for later in the year and possibly another destination.

My dates are pretty strict because it's for a wedding, so if it doesn't work out for May I won't go this year at all, but I'd still be pretty disappointed if I had to miss it. My alternative plan is just to do a road trip, which would still be fun but not the same.

My parents' upcoming trip with mom's siblings will probably be scrapped for the second year in a row (last year, it was the government shutdown and issues with TSA staffing at airports). They're all elderly, dad has a pacemaker and low-stage cancer, and mom's brother is immunocompromised. I can't imagine that either of them will want to sit on a plane for hours and risk getting stuck several states away from home.

The Wall Street Journal had a good article on this today. They made the good point that if you travel, make sure you have an extra supply of any medications you take with you in case you get stuck. Also discussed the ins and outs of different types if travel insurance.

I wimped out and changed my flight to Europe to late Aug. instead of next month.Eurail Pass is good for a year before I need to activate it so won't lose money on that. I'm just going to stick with camping road trips for now. I don't worry much about the virus but do about quarantined...especially what could be multiple quarantined as has been happening to some people who have returned to the US.

I just heard a flight attendant is infected and she was on multiple flights before getting sick.

I live in Europe but my company has cancelled all business trips to areas affected by corona virus. In addition, we are actively discouraged from (international) business travel. I just had to cancel business trips planned in 2 weeks to currently unaffected areas.

We have a November Italy trip scheduled. It's far enough out that I feel like wait and see is my best approach. We're bringing our 1.5 year old though, and there's no way I'm going to risk getting stuck in a quarantine with a baby, so if we have to cancel, we will. I'm sure there will be a lot more information by then though.

Travelling to Thailand in 2 weeks - no plans to cancel myself, but I'm aware the flights might be cancelled for me. Everyone in my group is young (mid 20s) and healthy, getting travel insurance, and taking precautions. The worst of it is a short layover in Korea, and I've already worked it out with my employer that I'll be self-quarantining and working from home for minimum two weeks once I get back.

I'm not taking any extra precautions over what I would normally do for the flu season for domestic travel at this point, but naturally I'm keeping an eye on things as they develop.

Logged into my Canadian employer's heath insurance site last night to submit a routine dental claim. I was greeted with a pop up "reminding" me that the travel health insurance part of the policy doesn't apply if I go to a country that the Government of Canada has issued a level 3 or 4 health advisory against. So far, only China is at level 3, but the list bears watching.

Logged into my Canadian employer's heath insurance site last night to submit a routine dental claim. I was greeted with a pop up "reminding" me that the travel health insurance part of the policy doesn't apply if I go to a country that the Government of Canada has issued a level 3 or 4 health advisory against. So far, only China is at level 3, but the list bears watching.

Oh, that's interesting. Hadn't thought of that -- thanks for posting.

We're going to London next week for two weeks. No plans to alter anything.

I leave for Italy in 5 days! It's a two week trip. We are doing southern Italy though.

I don't think the flight there will be cancelled but I am worried a little bit about the return trip or being quarantined. Being quarantined at home wouldn't be that bad, but staying in another country for however long would definitely screw up my budget. Plus DH is an hourly contractor so that would all be unpaid time off and I don't have much vacation time myself after this 2 week trip.

I have a trip to the Caucasus in May. There's a decent amount of travel between there and Iran, so I'm wondering how this may play out for them.

I have no intention of cancelling unless it is cancelled on me, but part of my trip is a food tour for which I owe the balance of the tour cost in a few weeks. Annnnddd, if it ultimately gets cancelled, I think the tour company might sneak out of refunding/holding the funds for another trip based on their legal language. So now I'm a little concerned about paying the balance and then immediately losing it. I'll definitely not do it till the day it's due, and maybe will call the company before I do to discuss.

Due to the lockdown in Italy, it's now possible that the wedding I was going to will be postponed. So it seems pretty certain that I won't be going in May, especially since many flights there are cancelled until May 1 anyway, and travel insurance wouldn't cover it if I did end up cancelling. But on the bright side, I probably will get to attend the wedding, just at a different time. Luckily none of my family lives in an affected zone, but the whole country is taking precautions just in case.

I leave for Italy in 5 days! It's a two week trip. We are doing southern Italy though.

I don't think the flight there will be cancelled but I am worried a little bit about the return trip or being quarantined. Being quarantined at home wouldn't be that bad, but staying in another country for however long would definitely screw up my budget. Plus DH is an hourly contractor so that would all be unpaid time off and I don't have much vacation time myself after this 2 week trip.

Assuming they went ahead with their plans and did not return early, Italy is in national lockdown and this person is still there. I'm not sure what the US is doing with Italy returnees right now, but if we were smart we'd be requiring a 14 mandatory quarantine (i.e. not trusting people to go home and obey it, but requiring them to stay at the airport or wherever) for anyone coming from there.

So, this decision really didn't age well, even if it happened to work out for Valvore. People, please don't fuck around with this virus. It is not a game.

I have a flight to Netherlands first week of April. I need to cancel or change it because of a medical issue unrelated to coronavirus. I'm not too concerned about traveling to NL because it is like a second home for me & somewhere that being forced into quarantine/prolonged stay wouldn't be an undue hardship. I would be more concerned about being a disease vector if the virus is more prevalent where I live than where I am going. At the moment, that's not the case. I'm hoping that coronavirus will give me more flexibility in moving my trip back a few weeks. I'm not sure how flexible Virgin Atlantic will be (wasn't able to get through to them because they're swamped from Flybe folding). Worst case, I just have to lose the miles that I booked the ticket with and miss the trip. Not too bad.

I want to fly to Asia anytime in the next few months but am putting that on hold. My DH is not comfortable with it and my mother is extremely worried about the idea of my flying there.

We fly next week to Orlando for a few days at Disney. DH was pretty comfortable with things but today's news is making him pretty nervous. At this point, we are still going ahead but DH has asked that we nix our plans to go back to Orlando at the end of April. We are not on any type of schedule right now so quarantine time wouldn't bother us much but DH is getting nervous from a health perspective, especially since he has some immune issues.

We continue to watch the news. Very interesting seeing the drastic measures being taken by businesses everywhere compared to the "stop panicking - the flu is worse" attitude by many folks. I am not naturally inclined to being too nervous but am more suspicious when big businesses voluntarily choose to lose so much money.

I wouldnít fly anywhere right now. The entire country of Italy is on a month quarantine. If you are over 65 they arenít wasting a ventilator on you or reviving you if you code. Their hospitals are at 200% capacity.

We fly next week to Orlando for a few days at Disney. DH was pretty comfortable with things but today's news is making him pretty nervous. At this point, we are still going ahead but DH has asked that we nix our plans to go back to Orlando at the end of April. We are not on any type of schedule right now so quarantine time wouldn't bother us much but DH is getting nervous from a health perspective, especially since he has some immune issues.

This kind of attitude is why this virus is now a pandemic. What you're talking about is incredibly foolish. By that time the US may have thousands of infections, if not tens of thousands. You could easily get stuck in Orlando for weeks, and that's not the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is you get infected from someone else at Disney (which is exactly the worst sort of place to go to right now), bring it back to your home town, and be the cause of someone's death when you transmit the disease to them. Or god forbid you could be one of the unlucky few young people who die from this virus.

Anyway it is very likely Disney will close in the next few days. I hope, if only to take the decision out of the hands of so many Americans who are clearly unequipped to make good decisions on this subject.

I wouldnít fly anywhere right now. The entire country of Italy is on a month quarantine. If you are over 65 they arenít wasting a ventilator on you or reviving you if you code. Their hospitals are at 200% capacity.

I cancelled my side trip (on my way home to Canada) to visit my sister, money lost. She winters in the Coachella Valley, they have cancelled the Indian Wells Tennis Tournament and now the Coachella Valley music festival. New Zealand to Ontario (not GTA) should be relatively safe. I'm in a moderate risk group, not risking it.

I had no immediate travel planned, but I did reschedule an outpatient surgery I was going to have in a few days. I've lived with the condition for several years now and what's a few more months, tbh?

This seems like an excellent idea for everyone. I was touring a hospital yesterday for a completely unrelated reason (abortion provider appreciation day) and we talked for a long time about their coronavirus management. They have two cases there right now. They and another major hospital network in the city are working now on opening additional space to accommodate more patients and, to your point, pulling resources from non-urgent or non-time-sensitive medical care. One hospital is opening a facility that was in process of being renovated (and stopping the renovations) and another is prepping to set up giant tents, apparently. All staff are being prepped for the possibility of being reassigned from those non-urgent units. We practiced the toe-tap greeting to get out of the habit of shaking hands and learned about their screening procedure (and how it updates in real time) for all patients. They seem well-prepared...