abasile wrote:...There's really no question that Tesla has remained on the vanguard of EVs. For those who desire the capabilities of the Model 3 in the $35K - $60K price range, there is still no competition...

I wish we could "like" posts on this forum. Consider this one "liked."

Ditto!

It is quite amusing to see such collective praise for a vehicle with no actual production examples built.

And also a vehicle for which even a sycophant site is now posting reports suggesting the launch may not only be delayed, but be in serious trouble.

Shouldn't the report that the battery pack design was not even completed by July give any rational investor in TSLA, or any depositor on a model 3, some reason to be concerned?

edatoakrun wrote:Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:53 pm

Yes, model three production began in July, and the ~30 cars delivered that month were production models.

Except for their battery packs, seats, headlights, taillights, and "several other smaller components"...

...employees and company insiders are the ones taking delivery of early production vehicles. Those vehicles are subject to components changes as Tesla tunes its manufacturing processes for Model 3 and add more production parts.

Sources familiar with those changes confirmed to Electrek that they had to make over a half dozen of them. In most cases, the vehicles are still performing normally, but Tesla wants to replace a now “prototype” part with a production one or it has improved on a production part through the deployment of the Model 3 manufacturing lines.

For example, Tesla has already replaced the Model 3 front and passenger seats as well as the battery packs from the vehicles made in July.

More recently, Tesla changed the Model 3’s headlight and tail lights for vehicles made in August. The headlights were replaced with an “upgraded version”, while the first version of the tail lights were susceptible to condensation – something that was visible in some Model 3 production candidates spotted in the wild earlier this year.

hyperionmark wrote:And many Tesla bears only look at their car segment and forget this is now a wide base energy company. And even though their car segment is largest it is comforting to know as a shareholder how diversified they are.

As you well know, Tesla sells two expensive vehicles in the luxury price segment and another that's currently barely being produced in the lower end of the luxury segment.

edatoakrun wrote:...Shouldn't the report that the battery pack design was not even completed by July give any rational investor in TSLA, or any depositor on a model 3, some reason to be concerned?

Not in particular. It only makes sense that they'd try to use the very latest and best arrangement they could produce. Considering the GigaFactory is also engaged in their ramp-up it's not surprising to me that they'd leave non-dimensional aspects of the battery pack open for as long as possible.

My main worries remain Tesla's track record of missing production targets, and the risk of disappointing mainstream buyers in terms of quality.

For all the derision of mainstream automakers from the Tesla Fanbois, it's becoming apparent that mass producing automobiles isn't quite as easy as it looks. You don't hear Mary Barra or Carlos Ghosn whining about "production hell". Innovation and the ability to tenaciously slog through day to day execution are skills not always possessed by the same sorts of individuals. Tesla better figure out how to start stamping out cars in a hurry or things are going to get ugly.

LTLFTcomposite wrote:For all the derision of mainstream automakers from the Tesla Fanbois, it's becoming apparent that mass producing automobiles isn't quite as easy as it looks. You don't hear Mary Barra or Carlos Ghosn whining about "production hell". Innovation and the ability to tenaciously slog through day to day execution are skills not always possessed by the same sorts of individuals. Tesla better figure out how to start stamping out cars in a hurry or things are going to get ugly.

Indeed, and as edatoakrun pointed out at viewtopic.php?p=496910#p496910, Tesla's output at their Fremont plant is very low vs. the # of employees they have on-site. And to re-quote

"The number of people Musk's got in there has a great deal to do with why he doesn't make money building vehicles," said automotive manufacturing consultant Michael Tracy of Agile Group in Howell, Mich. "Toyota's numbers reflect the number of people you expect to have if you were going to efficiently build vehicles for a profit."

Here's an interesting story about people actually putting their money on the line. I know a few of you are real shorters, which I have said I respect much more than the rest of the people that have no skin in the game.

Nubo wrote:My main worries remain Tesla's track record of missing production targets, and the risk of disappointing mainstream buyers in terms of quality.

Actually, whether it's the typical TSLA shareholder or a reservation holder, at this early phase of M3 production, most will be indifferent. It won't be until mid 2018 that the 'reality' sets in and rationalization begins to wane.

Nubo wrote:My main worries remain Tesla's track record of missing production targets, and the risk of disappointing mainstream buyers in terms of quality.

Actually, whether it's the typical TSLA shareholder or a reservation holder, at this early phase of M3 production, most will be indifferent. It won't be until mid 2018 that the 'reality' sets in and rationalization begins to wane.

If you don't actually have skin in the game your comments are worthless.