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Although I'm not a Chinese supporter, but what I do like is that they have the right mentality which is why they are successful... their organisation has trained them well mentallyIndonesia needs to start cracking the whip on their players who are really setting back at the moment... 30 years ago even China couldn't even touch them, but look at them now... I mean, what happened?

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Haven t you noticed CHN players collapse mentally in the last three tournaments recently? Do the research. Some were even top seeded to win!

While I understand your effusive praise of Taufik,you've to spoil it by uttering inanities like the above that fly in the f!ce of facts. Suffice for me to point out that when Taufik and even more so Lee CW can win titles all by themselves,all the more Lin Dan can and he has proven it time and time again by beating none other than these two great players, which his teammates struggled against one time or the other. For me to elaborate further is to show you disrespect.You should do well to be reminded of what Peter Gade and Lee Hyun Il said about Lin Dan as well as what Taufik himself said of LD after the 2010 Asian Games,if I remember correctly,something to the effect that the way LD played and won that championship would make him the gold medallist at London Olympics.As for the old scoring system of 15-points, I should say fitness level is even more demanding than the new 21-point system as you can only score point on serve, so oftentimes the match drags on,sometimes for hours, as the players ding-dong in gaining back service. Therefore, Taufik's "not so perfect fitness levele22, which I have to say is a recent phenomenon of his the last one-two years,is not such a disadvantage to him as before.Don't forget, China, like the traditional powerhouses INA and MAS,for example, also started from zero to hero, first with only one or two world class players before reigning supreme with many top players. Whatever advantage that gives the dominant force is the natural development of things, no-one should be faulted,not CHN nor INA nor MAS in the past. Is it CHN's or INA's or MAS' fault that they each in their heydays have so many top class players that the rest of the world cannot deal with? Simply put,you become the best in the world by beating all your opponents of whatever nationality in one-on-one combat, the same goes for your teammates who have their own opponents to take care of, and, compatriots or not, they all want to win titles for themselves too.To me,Lin Dan is simply the greatest for the titles he has won, the opponents he's bested ,and the way he plays - period.

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Be happy with your thoughts of LD. But you only joined BC recently. To understand how LD won most of his titles, you gotta go back to 2005? When he became WR1 and had to be seen to win all like a WR1. Before SS, players from same country would be equally slotted on both halves. So LD would have at least a teammate in each semi final. The teammate facing him would play a fake match. The other teammate would drain his SF non-CHN opponent if he could not defeat him. Come SS, there is no distinct country allocation and some draws would have lop sided CHN MS, leaving LD unescorted during late stage when he needed them most. That s why, during the early days of SS, LD avoided participation. Check it out. BC has, perhaps, the richest tournament data to tap, definitely better than BWF. If you can t face the facts, then just be happy with your vision of LD. It s your pleasure. So too for others, with their idea of greatest.

Based on your logic, the winners would have been very diverse and there will be a lot of unknown names in the winner list

Apart from Gopichand and Hafiz Hashim, I only see Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei as the only legit top players to win it.

If it's not so hard, why he cant win it and another thing, if it's not so important and he is not bothered, why he should bother attending the tournament to lose? That's not a very reasonable thing to do.

To me, he is just giving excuses and nope it has nothing to do with him winning the OG and WC.

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you turn words of others just how it fits your purpose..no desire to discuss with somebody like that

your assumptions of the result of "my logic" are complete nonsense

there can only be one winner / tournament but there are always a few or even a lot of people capable of it

taufik only played this tournament (i wont count exactly) lets say 7-10 times in his prime in his life
in this timespan there were some other supergood players

nothing special to not win this particular tournament
maybe he also does not feel good in england..for whatever reason and therefore had problems with his performance, other players may experience the opposite and are able to "overperform" there

to you he is giving excuse, ok..for me, he does not give a **** about what ppl like you are thinking about him because it is stupid anyway
he won so much and also he can be happy to have won the gold medal in athens (since you only get the chance every 4 years and its by far the most important tournament)
why would he bother that he randomly did not win allengland

it is not like he was dominating everybody for years, even for his skill he can be happy with what (how much) he won

Be happy with your thoughts of LD. But you only joined BC recently. To understand how LD won most of his titles, you gotta go back to 2005? When he became WR1 and had to be seen to win all like a WR1. Before SS, players from same country would be equally slotted on both halves. So LD would have at least a teammate in each semi final. The teammate facing him would play a fake match. The other teammate would drain his SF non-CHN opponent if he could not defeat him. Come SS, there is no distinct country allocation and some draws would have lop sided CHN MS, leaving LD unescorted during late stage when he needed them most. That s why, during the early days of SS, LD avoided participation. Check it out. BC has, perhaps, the richest tournament data to tap, definitely better than BWF. If you can t face the facts, then just be happy with your vision of LD. It s your pleasure. So too for others, with their idea of greatest.

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Dude enough. I set this thread up to talk and discuss about the issue raised by Taufik's words about one tournament the ALl England.

Another attack and defamation of another player irrelevant to this thread. I am going to complain and escalate this to Mods.

We are trying to debate and clash opinions openly as to whether Taufik said about the All England is approriate or inapproriate and there you go again with your rhetorics of Taufik is naturally the greatest because he doesnt need assists this and that and there you go AGAIN, bringing Lin Dan into the picture.

Dude enough. I set this thread up to talk and discuss about the issue raised by Taufik's words about one tournament the ALl England. Another attack and defamation of another player irrelevant to this thread. I am going to complain and escalate this to Mods.We are trying to debate and clash opinions openly as to whether Taufik said about the All England is approriate or inapproriate and there you go again with your rhetorics of Taufik is naturally the greatest because he doesnt need assists this and that and there you go AGAIN, bringing Lin Dan into the picture.Cc: Justin L

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You mean you call the shots just because you start a warped thread? You don t realise you and your partner have been attacking and defaming other players in your own style? You want a list of all the posts of you and your partner where you attack and defame other players? Both of you are relative newbies. Some BC history reading will do you both good.

To me,he is the greatest INA badminton player,greater even than Liem Swie King and Hartono (am in no way disparaging him,it's just that badminton during his time was using less advanced equipment including training facility, and the level of competition not as high or intense,not his fault at all).

As for Taufik's place in history, I rate him as one of the greatest and,you guessed it, below Lin Dan, Zhao Jianhua, and Lee CW,but among the rest.

Back to the topic proper. Certainly, Taufik like everyone is entitled to his own opinion but assertion isn't the same as proof. As sen alerted,hoped Taufik's words weren't mistranslated or misrepresented.

True, in the past,the AE is the de facto world championship but eversince the BWF(formerly IBF) institued the World Championships, the AE is relegated to one of the major Superseries Premiers,still everyone of which is attended by practically all the top players;that speaks volumes for the strength of the tournament. Therefore,the AE today continues to enjoy a special place or prestige for its illustrious history,long tradition and nostalgia - on this aspect,even someone as young as LXR felt so in her post-match interview of her maiden, historic AE'12 victory.

In other words,the AE isn't just any ordinary SS; however,it will become so if one day more and more top players are giving it a miss,hopefully it won't come to that.

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how can you rated TH behind LCW? If LCW achieved half as TH's, Malaysia as a country will stop functioning as every single day will be a national holiday.

how can you rated TH behind LCW? If LCW achieved half as TH's, Malaysia as a country will stop functioning as every single day will be a national holiday.

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Well with all due respect, LCW does prove a good point to be rated in front of TH.

Among the four, who has contributed the most in the Super Series and Premier era ? It's downright LCW at the time when efforts and money are spent to popularise badminton. It was him who has been playing the most active role and winning the titles without discriminating any tournament status.

Additionally, you cant argue that he is not as good because he has proven from his track record that he has reached the finals of every major tournament and finished with a medal; not empty handed.

As the most successful player in the Super Series era with 42 career titles, I will say he has done enough to earn one rating ahead of TH whom btw has only managed one SS in the last six SS seasons. If you look it from this perspective.

You mean you call the shots just because you start a warped thread? You don t realise you and your partner have been attacking and defaming other players in your own style? You want a list of all the posts of you and your partner where you attack and defame other players? Both of you are relative newbies. Some BC history reading will do you both good.

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Mister,you better watch what you said. I loathe to dignify you and your ilk with a reply. Now you even shamelessly,unjustifiably,groundlessly hurl wild allegations,malicious accusations that I "attack and defame other players" - PROVE IT or else I take you for a snivelling coward, a shameless liar, a barefaced hypocrite who can only hide behind the cloak of anonymity to slander,attack and defame others, a dastardly act which you've proven to be most capable of time and again.

Moderators, I call for his ban for brazenly and repeatedly violating this forum's rules.​

Mister,you better watch what you said. I loathe to dignify you and your ilk with a reply. Now you even shamelessly,unjustifiably,groundlessly hurl wild allegations,malicious accusations that I "attack and defame other players" - PROVE IT or else I take you for a snivelling coward, a shameless liar, a barefaced hypocrite who can only hide behind the cloak of anonymity to slander,attack and defame others, a dastardly act which you've proven to be most capable of time and again.Moderators, I call for his ban for brazenly and repeatedly violating this forum's rules.​

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Huh, he cc you. As in MD, KKK is TBH s partner? Maybe you can find a better word.

how can you rated TH behind LCW? If LCW achieved half as TH's, Malaysia as a country will stop functioning as every single day will be a national holiday.

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Hi Alan, I understand my rating is somewhat controversial,take it that it's purely my personal opinion. As a friendly exchange of views, an explanation for it is in order as follows:

1) Taufik was fortunate to peak at the head end of Lin Dan's rise, meaning if his rise were to coincide with LD as in Lee CW's case, I wonder how many major titles Taufik would get to win;

2) Taufik's era more or less overlaps Lin Dan's and Lee CW's, so the three often play against each other, making a reasonably objective comparison of their relative skills quite possible;

3) for the last 4 years since the Beijing 2008 Olympics, during which time Taufik was and is still actively playing, only Lee CW comes close to matching Lin Dan in performance with virtually both of them contesting all the major championships - in fact,the two are in a class of their own until very recently.

Don't get me wrong I am a LD fan, however I've always admired Taufik. Whenever there is a tournament I always wish that LD and TH are in different sides of the draw because I wish them to compete in the final together.

Taufik is no doubt my second favourite player after Lin Dan. I don't get all the critics about Taufik. He's achieved so much, and he doesn't have anything to prove anymore. Let him enjoy his game and play how he wants. He has a family and kids that's more important than badminton now, let's just enjoy the time he has left on the international courts okay?

Huh, he cc you. As in MD, KKK is TBH s partner? Maybe you can find a better word.

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Oh my gosh,just because he cc that post to me makes me guilty by association???!!!

Why don't you cc all your posts to me to claim my partnership?

I remember telling you before that I'd appreciate you don't talk to me. You claim to be a high class,high standard personality, at least have the decency and self-respect to grant my personal request and stop "harassing" me. Why are you so fond of me that you must deign to elevate me to your high status? Am I supposed to feel honoured? Is this how a noble person should conduct himself?

From now on,in fact from then on,you are in my "Ignore List" - have I made myself clear? Thanks,but no thanks.

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