5:11pm:Australian shares pared early gains amid a regional sell-off in equities, but still finished the session marginally higher.

Resources stocks pulled the bourse into the black as the season for quarterly production reports continued to deliver pleasing results and the carbon tax was abolished in the Senate.

The benchmark S&P/ASX 200 Index and the broader All Ordinaries Index edged up 0.1 per cent, on Thursday to 5522.4 points and 5509.9 points, respectively. Local shares took a positive lead, adding as much as 0.8 per cent in early trade, after equity markets in the United States advanced with the Dow Jones hitting an all-time high on Wednesday night, while European markets also gained.

But the ASX lost most of its early gains after a closely watched National Australia Bank survey showed business confidence for the 12 months ahead fell for the second consecutive quarter and major markets around Asia provided negative cues in afternoon trade. Mining was the best-performing ­sector, up 1 per cent.

“The certainty of seeing the carbon tax repealed was a small positive for mining stocks although it was only ever a minor impost and its abolition was well flagged,” Pengana Global Resources Fund portfolio manager Ric Ronge said.

“More important for the resources sector lately has been some better than expected growth indicators out of China, including a stronger than forecast GDP print, and a swag of decent production reports starting to come through this week,” Mr Ronge said.

However lower forecast commodity prices remain a risk to the sector, he said. Goldman Sachs warned that iron ore, copper and Brent crude oil commodity prices are all set to fall over the next five years as global supplies climb.

5:03pm: The Australian dollar rose in late trading after easing lower throughout the day on mounting bets that the US will hike rates sooner than expected and that the next move in Australian rates will be down rather than up.

The local unit was steady at US93.72¢ in late trade. The afternoon spike helped it recover some of the week’s losses, amid a trickle of flat domestic business indicators and despite better-than-expected gross domestic product figures from China on Wednesday. It peaked on Tuesday at US94.05¢.

Thursday’s early downward pressure came mainly from the increasingly hawkish tone of US Federal Reserve chair Janet Yellen, who has hinted at an earlier-than-anticipated rate hike if US economic fundamentals continue to improve at their current pace.

This slightly more optimistic shift is being reflected in the money markets, where US two-year swap rates, a measure of interest rate expectations, are at a high this year of 0.67 per cent, suggesting a series of 25 basis point rate rises by the Federal Reserve over the next two years.

The equivalent rate in Australia has been steadily declining since April, reflecting a growing feeling among local economists that monetary policy could stay looser for longer.

“We are in a stage now where a stronger US economy is more likely to lift US yields and improve its yield advantage,” RBS head of Asia Pacific markets strategy Greg Gibbs said.

“At the same time, US capital markets are likely to be seen as relatively attractive considering the fundamental strains that have been revealed in many emerging markets over recent years.”

4:51pm:Australia’s economic conditions will likely be patchy this new financial year, prompting investors to seek out yield-producing stocks despite the increasingly expensive share prices attached to these companies.

Ross Barker, managing director of listed investment company Djerriwarrh, said many of the “sound” and income producing companies were “fully priced, if not very expensive”, as investors continue to flock to safe havens such as the big four banks.

“If interest rates are going to stay low... then investors will value those income characteristics and we will continue to run with options towards the upper end of our range,” Mr Barker said.

Djerriwarrh, which has a market value of $1.08 billion, posted a 14 per cent rise in net profits to $43 million for the year to June, up from $37.7 million netted in 2013. “The key influencers in the profit increase was receiving more dividends from [our holdings] - including some demerger dividends from Amcor and Brambles,” he said.

The LIC received $14.7 million worth of income from option activity this past financial year, a significant jump from last year’s $9.7 million.

Djerriwarrh’s portfolio returned 15.6 per cent for the year, underperforming the benchmark S&P/ASX 200’s 17.4 per cent gains during the same period. Investors will pocket a final dividend of 16¢ per share from the LIC, the same as last year.

One of the reasons why he believes a house is attractive is because mortgages are just so cheap.

“Today financing costs are extraordinarily low,” Paulson said during the interview with CNBC anchor Melissa Lee. “You can get a 30-year mortgage somewhere around 4 and a half per cent.”

“The cost of owning is somewhat less than the cost of renting. And if you rent, the rent goes up every year. But if you buy a 30-year mortgage, the cost is fixed. So I think it, you know, is still a very attractive investment.”

However, Paulson was speaking specifically for owner-occupiers. In other words, people who would actually live in the homes they were buying.

“To buy it as an investment and rent it out, I’m not so enamoured with that concept,” he said.

During last year’s Delivering Alpha conference, Paulson expressed similar thoughts.

3:24pm: Matthew Bambrick, ATO assistant commissioner for superannuation, said that dividend washing was among a handful of new unlawful practices that do-it-yourself scheme trustees had discovered and which were coming under heavy scrutiny.

Other “emerging risks” in the $560 billion sector included overseas seminars conducted in holiday resorts, thereby casting doubt on whether trustees were using their super funds for the sole purpose of saving for retirement, and dividend stripping, whereby a company distributes retained earnings to a super fund just as a member retires.

Mr Bambrick said that the ATO had identified 2000 self-managed funds it suspected of having engaged in dividend stripping.

It has written to each scheme, warning them that the practice was a breach of the tax rules.

Dividend washing occurs when shareholders seek to claim two sets of franking credits, effectively on a single parcel of shares.

For example, an investor holding franking credits in a stock, and who has held it for 45 days, sells the stock ex-dividend, pocketing the dividend and franking credits. They then go straight back in to the market to buy an equivalent quantity of the stock “cum dividend”, thus picking up two sets of dividends and franking credits.

Mr Bambrick said the Tax Office was also concerned with the practice of a self-managed fund buying property through a unit trust and allowing a member of the fund to live in the property.

2:59pm:Telstra shares continue their seemingly inexorable rise higher, a trend that has seen the price more than double over the past three years.

Now trading at $5.43, the last time the stock was at these levels was mid-2001.

Priced at 16.9 times estimated earnings for the current financial year, the market looks happy to pay a premium for the growth opportunities of the formerly staid national telco, including for opportunities in Japan and elsewhere in Asia.

P/E expansion explains some of the growth in Telstra's share price over the past few years - an increase of 50 per cent from around 11.4.

The stock looks pretty good value on a dividend yield basis: 5.3 per cent before franking, 7.2 per cent after.

The consensus among analysts is that the stock looks fairly valued. Of those surveyed by Bloomberg, five say "buy", 12 say "hold" and a brave three - including UBS and BBY - say the equivalent of sell.

Stock in the national telco have more than doubled over the past three years.

2:18pm:President Obama imposed a new round of sanctions against Russia, targeting some of the crown jewels of the country’s financial, energy and defense industries in what officials described as the most punishing measures taken to date by the United States in retaliation for Moscow’s intervention in Ukraine.

The new actions will, among other things, restrict access to American capital markets for Russian giants like the Rosneft oil company and Gazprombank that operate worldwide. While the latest moves did not cut off entire sectors of the Russian economy, they went significantly further than the financial and travel limits imposed previously on several dozen individuals and their businesses.

The announcement reflected a decision by President Obama to take more stringent steps than those taken by the United States’ European allies, which have far deeper economic ties to Russia. Meeting in Brussels, leaders of the European Union refused to match the American measures and instead adopted a more tempered plan that blocks new development loans to Russia and threatens to target more Russian individuals.

1:56pm: JPMorgan has lowered its rating on Macquarie Group to an “underweight” position citing concerns the investment bank’s surging share price has outpaced earnings growth expectations.

In a note to clients JPMorgan’s banking analysts highlighted Macquarie’s value has outperformed global peers by 10 per cent since the publication of its 2014 results.

Most analysts are also pencilling in a 10 per cent uplift to the currently flat earnings guidance at Macquarie’s upcoming annual general meeting.

But JPMorgan claims these bullish expectations are already factored into the share price and points out the bank must deliver close to 25 per cent underlying earnings growth to reach consensus.

While the analysts argue this is plausible given, among other factors, a resurgence in mergers and acquisitions, higher equity market activity, asset realisation gains, performance fees and a reduction in the bank’s metal and energy capital impairments, further growth in 2016 “may be challenging”.

JPMorgan claims Macquarie may now be valued on FY16 earnings, meaning the 2015 outlook is consequently “quite an important base”.

The analysts add the post-AGM wave of selling in the stock by Macquarie staff “will not” be absorbed by the Macquarie Group Employee Retained Equity Plan.

JPMorgan downgraded the bank from a former “neutral” stance but increased its price target on the stock to $54.75 from $54.62.

1:43pm: The stock of Fifth Element Resources on 15 July reached a new high of $8.03 and closed at $7.96, compared with a listing price of just 20c a share in its $3.5m float in May.

There has been no disclosure to the market by the group, which is led by Hong Kong executive Chi Ho William Lo and has gold and copper tenements in New South Wales. The company reported an operating loss for the three months to January of $198,000.

The ASX reacted on Tuesday by suspending the stock from trade, after asking Fifth Element six times since early June about any explanation for the price rise.

Aside from several large exchanges of shares, on most trading days only a handful of Fifth Element shares were exchanged.

Curiously the company failed to disclose its top 20 holders and spread of shareholding on listing. A July 3 disclosure of the figures appears to show Fifth Element has only 13 shareholders.

ASX listing rules require an initial public offering to have at least 300 shareholders where 50 per cent of shares are held by related parties, or 400 shareholders where 75 per cent of shares are held by related parties.

Companies are also required to maintain a wide spread of shareholders after listing.

The major investors are Diamond Peak Overseas with 48%, HSBC Nominees with 35% and Pershing Nominees with 12.1%.

The mysterious case of Fifth Element - from 20c at listing in May to almost $8.

1:25pm: Investors wrestling with what is driving the surprise US bond rally of 2014 got a clue Wednesday fingering a familiar suspect: China.

The world's most populous nation boosted its official holdings of Treasury debt maturing in more than a year by $107.21 billion for the first five months of 2014, according to US data released Wednesday. That is the biggest first-five-month increase since record keeping began in 1977 and surpasses the $81 billion bought by China for all of 2013, according to Ian Lyngen, senior government-bond strategist at CRT Capital Group.

The scale of Chinese buying will meet with little surprise in some corners of Wall Street, where many traders have been struggling to explain why the yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note has tumbled this year to 2.54%, from 3% at the end of 2013. Yields fall as prices rise.

Most investors had forecast that rates would rise this year as the US economy picked up steam and the Federal Reserve slowly pared its stimulus. US job creation has indeed gained pace in recent months, but yields remain well below their 2013 highs.

At the same time, the disclosure underscores the frayed nerves in the bond market as the Fed prepares as early as next year to raise interest rates for the first time since the financial crisis. Many investors fear that reduced Fed support and unpredictable buying patterns among large foreign entities could spell bond-market tumult in coming months.

"The big picture is that China buying may be helping to keep bond yields lower than they should be ahead of the Fed moving closer to raising rates,'' said Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ. "This is making investors complacent, and the market could wake up and get quite a shock if yields soar if China changes course and buying from this source diminishes."

1:09pm: Despite the late drama, it looks like the takeover of David Jones is “go”: the Federal Court has approved the $2.2 billion merger between the department store owner and South African retail giant Woolworths,

The takeover approach is being described as Murdoch’s most ambitious move, but he took even bigger risks in the 20th century. Photo: Bloomberg

1:04pm:21st Century Fox’s attempt to take over the US film and TV giant Time Warner has all the hallmarks of Rupert Murdoch’s approach to expansion in the second half of his extraordinary career.

There's the vaulting ambition to expand, but within the portfolio of traditional media assets he built up in the 20th century; the patient pursuit of the quarry that in past cases including the $US5 billion acquisition of Dow Jones and The Wall Street Journal in 2007 results in a ‘‘bear hug’’ that the target and its shareholders cannot resist; and the use of non-voting shares as takeover currency, to preserve the Murdoch family’s control of the massive media group that would be created if 21st Century Fox and Time Warner are merged.

The odds are that 21st Century Fox will attempt to re-engage, and if it continues to be unsuccessful, take its takeover campaign public.

On the face of it, the winners from the repeal of Australia’s carbon price will be the 371 liable entities paying the tax and consumers who forked out more for goods and services as the emissions charge was passed on.

Losers will include firms that have profited from their relatively low carbon output compared with rivals, such as Snowy Hydro and Hydro Tasmania. Accounting and corporate advisory firms are also likely to cut jobs as demand for their expertise dims.

The effects of the Senate’s repeal of the carbon price – $25.40 a tonne as of July 1 - will take some time to play out.

Since the carbon price fell most directly on the power sector, its removal should produce winners in that industry, save for the hydro plants and wind farms which operate at near-zero emissions.

However, as former Citi analyst and clean energy campaigner Tim Buckley notes, the coal-fired power producers have been stoked with billions of dollars in compensation to ensure they absorbed the carbon hit.

“The government gave almost 100 per cent free permits to the generators, who were allowed to bank the cash,” Mr Buckley said. “Then they’ve charged consumers for the cost of the carbon and taken the difference as a profit.”

AGL today said the repeal of the carbon price would reduce EBIT by about $186 million. The sum includes the loss of $100 million in "transitional assistance arrangements" for its Loy Yang A power plant in Victoria and about $86 million from anticipated falls in its wholesale power prices paid to its renewable energy and gas generation units.

Mount Gibson chief executive Jim Beyer said 2014 indicated he was satisfied with the company's year and flagged that the miner would be able to navigate the shoals of an iron ore market characterised by surging supply and easing demand.

"While the coming year is likely to be challenging for lower quality products, Mount Gibson is able to deliver significant improvements through higher grade and quality products, enabling the company to better optimise cashflow margins and performance," he said.

12:15pm: It’s time for Coca-Cola Amatil to cut ties with Indonesia and focus on Australia and New Zealand, according to Credit Suisse analysts.

Credit Suisse analysts reckon CCA has invested about $1.3 billion into Indonesia over the past 22 years, which is more than the unit’s earnings.

“CCL’s Board needs to prove to shareholders why the next 20 years will be different, especially when industry participants are suggesting to us that The Coca-Cola Company is pressuring CCL to ensure affordable pricing of beverages in the Indonesian market,” the analysts told clients on Thursday morning.

“And, CCL is confronting new and more sophisticated competition from Aje Beverage (Big Cola) and Indofood/Asahi.”

Credit Suisse said CCA’s Indonesia and PNG business was worth $1 billion, which included $200 million for PNG.

The analysts said the Indonesian division was unlikely to earn $200 million in annual EBITDA in the foreseeable future, despite investor expectations. It said the division’s earnings may even have halved in the 2014 financial year.

Credit Suisse said CCA, without Indonesia and PNG, could trade on a 2015 P/E of nearly 20.

“This is a unique feature of the Australian share market. High yielding companies with low growth hold high P/Es—especially if they have low levels of debt,” the analysts said.

The $2.2 billion takeover of David Jones has hit another speed bump. Photo: Glenn Hunt

11:52am:ASIC has once again intervened in South Africa’s Woolworth $2.2 billion offer for David Jones, withholding a letter of consent at a court hearing in Sydney.

The scheme of arrangement was approved by 89.6 per cent of David Jones shareholders by number and 96.8 per cent of shares voted at a meeting on Monday, exceeding the 50 per cent and 75 per cent approval thresholds required.

However the corporate regulator is concerned that Woolworths’ mop-up bid for Country Road, constitutes a multi-million dollar inducement or “collateral benefit” to rag trader Solomon Lew.

In the Federal Court on Thursday, ASIC’s counsel John Halley SC said: “We don’t submit to the court that the court must not approve the scheme. All we want to do is to make sure Your Honour is fully aware of the circumstances in which the benefit arose.”

ASIC claims that Woolworths made the offer for Country Road to ensure that Mr Lew did not try to block scheme of arrangement.

“Here we have someone not on the share register at the time of the scheme, coming onto the share register, using that position he had for leverage. That’s what ASIC considers to be a collateral benefit” Mr Kalley told the Court.

Mr Halley said Mr Lew will be able to sell his stake in highly illiquid stock – Country Road – at a premium to what he might otherwise be able to achieve selling it to someone else.

“It appears Mr Lew has used this opportunity to establish a benefit that was not available to other shareholders.”

In a series of affidavits, David Jones submitted that shareholders could never share in the collateral benefit because Woolworths had declared its offer final.

But Mr Halley questioned this argument that Woolworths would not have offered more for David Jones.

“Evidence the bid could never be increased is relatively sparse,” Mr Halley said. “That rises to hearsay. It would be most unusual for a bidder to say anything different.”

He said Woolworths declared its offer for David Jones best and final on June 30. But Mr Lew had started buying shares in May. Woolworths made the offer for Country Road early in June.

Justice Kathleee Farrell noted how well Woolworths will do out of owing 100 per cent of Country Road and 100 per cent of David Jones.

“There is no doubt that it’s a wonderful commercial conclusion for it.”

11:15am: Two years of uninterrupted gains in US stocks are sowing anxiety among financial professionals, with three in five saying the market is on the verge of a bubble or already in one, a global poll conducted by Bloomberg found.

Forty-seven per cent of those surveyed said the equity market is close to unsustainable levels while 14 per cent already saw a bubble, according to a quarterly poll of 562 investors, analysts and traders who are Bloomberg subscribers. Almost a third of respondents called the market for lower-rated corporate debt overheated and most said stock swings will increase within six months, the poll showed this week.

With biotechnology stocks trading at more than 500 times earnings, mega-deals resurfacing and bond sales at a record, concern that prices are too high is growing amid a rally that has pushed the Standard & Poor's 500 Index almost 30 per cent above its peak in 2007. The view isn't shared by the US Federal Reserve, which said this week that while valuations were stretched in smaller biotechnology and social media companies, asset prices in general were in line with historical levels.

"It's like a storm coming," Dane Fulmer, a poll respondent who has traded stocks and bonds for more than 40 years and runs Dane Fulmer Investments in Arkansas, said. "You don't have to be a weatherman to see clouds."

10:43am:ANZ Bank chief Mike Smith has warned against imposing more rules to make the banking system safer, potentially putting one of the country's biggest lenders on a collision course with the government's financial system inquiry.

After inquiry chairman David Murray questioned if banks may need to hold more capital, Mr Smith called for a ''pause'' in new regulation as the industry adapted to the wave of global banking rules known as Basel III.

Mr Smith, who is chairing a business taskforce advising the G20, said the wave of rule changes affecting banks in recent years were already curbing growth in some countries. The taskforce would urge G20 leaders, who meet in Brisbane in November, to ''take stock'' of the changes, he said.

''We need to really ensure that what has been agreed under Basel III is now implemented uniformly across the G20 and then we just need to take stock and see what the effect of some of this regulation is,'' Mr Smith said in Sydney.

''You have to remember that much of this regulation was imposed at a time of crisis and it was unclear what would happen as a result, what the consequences or the unintended consequences might be, and I think we need to actually determine that and then make adjustments as necessary.''

The comments come after Mr Murray, a former Commonwealth Bank boss, floated a range of proposals to increase the capital held by the major banks in the inquiry's interim report, published on Tuesday.

Mr Smith said there was ''nothing terribly surprising'' in the interim report, and the bank would be responding to questions raised by the panel.

Even so, his comments highlight the likely tension between the inquiry and the major banks, which analysts believe are likely to feel some pain if the report's policy ideas are picked up by the government.

9:57am:Fortescue Metals Group is in talks with a Chinese shipyard to build four more export vessels, doubling a fleet that’s estimated to cost more than $500 million.

The four very large ore carriers are expected to be delivered in late 2017and early 2018, Perth-based Fortescue said yesterday in a statement.

The initial four ships commissioned in a separate $275 million agreement last month with another unnamed Chinese shipyard are scheduled for delivery from November 2016 to May 2017.

Fortescue expects the four additional ships will cost about the same as the agreement struck last month and help reduce transport costs, CEO Nev Power said.

Iron ore producers are seeking to cut costs as prices have tumbled 27 per cent this year as miners in Western Australia’s Pilbara region and Brazil expand output and spur a global glut of the steelmaking ingredient. The commodity slumped into a bear market in March and banks from Goldman Sachs to Morgan Stanley are predicting lower prices in 2015.

The fleet of eight vessels, which will each be capable of carrying about 250,000 metric tons, will transport about 12 per cent of the total ore Fortescue ships through Port Hedland, the world’s biggest bulk-export port, CFO Stephen Pearce said.

“There is a relatively limited fleet of these large vessels that are ideally suited for Port Hedland,” CEO Power said. “They will form a core part of the trade between the Pilbara and Asia as we go forward.”

9:53am:Commodities from iron ore to copper and Brent crude will drop over the next five years as global supplies climb, according to Goldman Sachs.

There will be substantial declines in some metals, energy and bulk commodities, analysts wrote in a report. The period of continued year-on-year price rises for most commodities is over, they said in the report.

Banks from Citigroup to Deutsche Bank have called an end to the commodities super-cycle, when China’s surging demand combined with supply constraints to more than double prices in the 12 years through 2010.

“A prolonged period of elevated commodity prices has catalysed a supply response,” the analysts wrote. “We do not expect a collapse in global commodity prices. But we do anticipate substantial declines.”

“Our long-term commodity forecasts suggest that fundamentals for commodity currencies [such as the Aussie dollar] will deteriorate,” the Goldman analysts wrote. “Relative shifts in terms of trade between commodity importers and exporters will be a key input to currency determination over the coming years.”

Copper was forecast to drop to $US6,600 a metric ton over five years, while iron ore was seen at $US80 a tonne and Brent oil may be $US100 a barrel, according to Goldman. The steel-making raw material was at $US98 a dry tonne in Tianjin, China, today, and copper traded at $7,123 on the London Metal Exchange today. Brent was 33 cents higher at $106.35 on the ICE Futures Europe.

“Against a looser supply backdrop, commodity prices should be much less sensitive to fluctuations in global growth than they were,” Goldman said in the report.

“We remain bearish on iron ore, and expect a surplus market to drive the longer-term price down,” the Goldman analysts wrote. “We see limited upside for agricultural commodities over the longer run.”

Deutsche Bank said last month commodity prices will remain subdued for years as many of the factors and fears that drove the super-cycle have dissipated. Citigroup said in April 2013 that death bells would ring for the commodity super-cycle.

9:45am:Higher gas prices along with higher volumes of oil sold helped to offset a lower level of shipments for Woodside Petroleum in the June quarter.

In the quarter, sales rose 24.8 per cent to $US1.67 billion as volumes sold rose 6.4 per cent to 21.5 million barrels of oil equivalent. Production in the quarter rose 17.5 per cent to 23.5 million barrels of oil equivalent.

Production volumes benefited from higher volumes of liquified natural gas produced at the Pluto development, it said, although volumes were affected due to the timing of shipments.

Higher LNG prices received along with higher sales of oil helped to offset the lower volumes of LNG and condensate sales, it said.

In the March quarterrevenue rose 15.9 per cent to $US1.67 billion on sales of 23.2 million barrels of oil equivalent which was a rise of 6.9 per cent year on year. Production in the quarter rose by 5 per cent to 23 million barrels of oil equivalent.

9:35am:US stocks advanced, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average to an all-time high, as companies from Time Warner to Intel rallied amid deals and earnings reports.

Time Warner surged 17 per cent as Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox made a takeover bid that was rebuffed. Intel jumped 9.3 per cent as its third-quarter sales forecast fuelled optimism the personal-computer market is emerging from a two-year slump. IBM rose 2.1 per cent after agreeing with Apple to develop applications for corporate users of wireless devices.

“I think Yellen might have derailed a few things yesterday, but today it’s back to earnings again and rightfully so,” Richard Sichel, chief investment officer at Philadelphia Trust, said. “Earnings season is a big deal and you have a couple of big names that have looked good with many, many to come.”

Fed Chair Janet Yellen said today that asset valuations in general aren’t out of line with historical norms, after a central bank report yesterday indicated prices for smaller social-media and biotechnology companies are substantially stretched.

The S&P 500 has rallied 7.2 percent this year amid better-than-estimated corporate earnings and central bank stimulus. The US economy is showing signs of recovering from a 2.9 percent contraction in the first quarter.

Data today showed US industrial production climbed 0.2 percent in June, capping the strongest quarter in almost four years. The Federal Reserve said in its Beige Book business survey released today that economic growth was modest to moderate in the latest period as all 12 of its districts reported stronger consumer spending and expanded manufacturing.

9:29am: Analysts and investors will focus on the early results from Santos and Oil Search’s PNG LNG project, as quarterly production season for Australia’s energy sector kicks off today.

Energy heavyweight Woodside reports its quarterly results today, with Santos following on Friday and Oil Search on July 22.

Woodside has been going through a period of re-pricing at its Pluto project. Data shows 28 per cent of the output during the first quarter was re-priced at a higher level and analysts expect this to increase to at least 35 per cent in the second quarter.

“We’ll see how that flows through,” said Nik Burns, commodity analyst at UBS. “Given that Woodside’s paying out 80 per cent of earnings to shareholders, there’s certainly a lot of interest in seeing how that new pricing flows through and if that impacts the company’s earnings.”

UBS forecasts Woodside to report a June production figure of 22 mmboe.

The prices Santos and Oil Search have received for the early production output at their PNG LNG facility has analysts and fund managers on the edge of their seats.

PNG LNG, a 6.9 million tonnes per annum project operated by ExxonMobil, started production ahead of schedule and delivered its first cargo in May.

“We will be very interested to see what realised pricing they got,” said Nik Burns, commodity analyst at UBS.

“With the project starting early, they’re selling more LNG on the spot market and unfortunately it’s coincided at a time when the spot LNG price is quite weak.”

A warm northern hemisphere winter and high inventories has seen soft spot LNG prices and easing oil prices are forecast to contribute to lower contract prices.

But Katana Asset Management portfolio manager Romano Sala Tenna says pricing is a short term issue and the volume large cap energy players are bringing onstream is where the real story is.

“The volume uplift companies like Santos is experiencing is probably the bigger issue,” said Mr Sala Tenna. “What’s going to happen in the future regarding output in PNG and Gladstone is important and what’s going on in the upstream side with gas collections.”

9:21am: The media giant 21st Century Fox, the empire run by Rupert Murdoch, made an $80 billion takeover bid in recent weeks forTime Warner but was rebuffed.

The bold approach could put Time Warner in play and might again ignite a reshaping of the media industry, prompting a new spate of mega-mergers among the nation's largest entertainment companies.

Murdoch has built a global media juggernaut over nearly five decades spanning studios, television channels and newspapers, in part, by pursuing bold deals that were often rebuffed at first by the targets of his overtures, only to later acquiesce.

Time Warner on Wednesday confirmed that it had rejected a cash and stock offer from 21st Century Fox, saying that it was not in the company's best interests. The Time Warner statement pointed to its own strategic plan, what it said was "uncertainty" over the value of 21st Century Fox stock and regulatory risks as among the reasons for its rebuff.

The company said that 21st Century Fox had offered 1.531 of its Class A non-voting common shares and $US32.42 in cash for every Time Warner share - or a total of nearly $US86.30, a premium of roughly 22 per cent to Time Warner's closing price Tuesday.

Earlier Wednesday, 21st Century Fox also confirmed that it had made a formal offer to Time Warner last month. "The Time Warner board of directors declined to pursue our proposal," the statement said. "We are not currently in any discussions with Time Warner."

The mornings are for selling and the afternoons are for buying back what you sold earlier, or so it would appear. Anticipating a down day tomorrow as the buying rush this am is dumped to reduce this pm's losses. We'll see.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 4:04PM

This is not for ILU. It is up from yesterday & today. Never go backward. I shorted her yesterday. She shooted me today. Bad luck!

Commenter

ps

Location

syd

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 4:56PM

Glad to off load my OZL holdings at todays prices after reading the fine print on the Malu Underground Project at Prominent Hill. Unlike the RBA, they have put an actual number on where they want the Australian Dollar to be, US$0.82! Too far from reality for me. Would be interesting to know how the project economics look at the current $A rate.

Commenter

Engineer

Location

Scam City

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:28PM

As mentioned the other day many people seem unhappy with the ASX performance. Little wonder Dow up Dax up CAC up FTSE up and the ASX just continues to disappoint. Everyday headlines start re offshore leads. I'm starting to wonder what offshore leads do we need to venture higher and we are still almost 1400 points from our GFC high. One day the miners go up and the banks go down and then the reverse the next day making a big fat nothing. Will the ASX ever hit 6000 again ???

Commenter

Dante

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:19PM

To All AGL shareholders, the repeal of the carbon deliver a NEGATIVE 'bonus' with the profit sliding and the share price sinking.ORG shareholders are wondering if the company could follow AGL with a revision of lower profit.BHP, FMG and RIO shareholders seem to be the beneficiary doing better than the Energy sector

Commenter

SHIT HAPPENS

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:54PM

Where's a Mining Tax when you need one. Oh Joe Hockey's abolishing that to pay back Labor's debt and deficit.Hockeynomics.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:25PM

After the repeal of the ‘terrible’ Fofa laws, AMP is all over Fairfax press advertising to announce all the expertise they can provide their dear customers in regards to financial planners advice, nice move AMP.

Commenter

Viking

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:32PM

I hope they manage their clients' investments better than they manage their share price.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:59PM

TON - out at 69c. Wild ride - thanks TON. Few heart stopping moments along the way. Good luck all!

Commenter

confused

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:29PM

TON, 20% up, 73c, keep up baby. Because high demand from china for battery car.

Commenter

ps

Location

syd

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:13PM

well donehovering...any fuel left in the tank?

Commenter

BearshapedBull

Location

Mugpunters Lounge

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:28PM

Always goes crazy on announcement and then pulls back. Will watch out for decent pull back and may get on again. Some other options in graphite space without the risk of exposure to Mozambique....

Commenter

confused

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:42PM

out @ 77c

Commenter

BearshapedBull

Location

Mugpunters Lounge

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:56PM

Well done! Bigger SB's than me.... should have had more faith. Finished at 79c. Watch this space....

Commenter

confused

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 4:26PM

Where have all the bears gone?Oh yes its winter innit !!

Commenter

lima

Location

Sorrento

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:25PM

It was interesting as always listening to Leon Cooperman at the Delivering Alpha conference last night. This is a man who has averaged 15% pa since 1992.

@mitch, ORL are up again, now 4.76, any thoughts on why/what will happen?

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:05PM

Not really. Just way oversold. Luxury stock so shouldn't be affected by contracting household incomes from the Budget. O/seas income will help. If there is a substantial decline from profit-taking (expected) I would top-up. Could take a while before its dividend is back to respectable levels tho. Another stock going the same way is GUD

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:42PM

Such a great day to sell... good prices! :)

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:52PM

There goes Malcolm M again always writing about his heroes. This time no mention of the non voting shares background and the lack of democracy.

Speaking of Fortescue, just yesterday the company announced that it had hit an annualised shipping rate of 160 million tonnes for the month of June. Fortescue also reported a 23% fall in C1 cash costs over the previous year with delivered cost to customers of US$49 per tonne in the quarter.In another move to further lower costs, the iron ore miner has also announced plans to add a further 4 very large ore carriers (VLOCs) to the 4 it has already contracted a Chinese shipbuilder to build. The ships are designed to complement existing port infrastructure and further lower its operational costs. Fortescue shares are up 3.5% to $4.74 in mid-day trading.

Commenter

Need to Know!

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:36PM

I went over their history yesterday. seems they are in a good position. private rail - tick.port sorted - tick.control own ships - tickfreaking sheetloads of australian land rich in iron ore / other materials - tick. debt not too bad.a better long term prospect than rio or bhp me thinks.the big question is where / how they will expand. further expansion into the beef cattle / camel / donkey export business?Id be building monster dams and solar farms up there and having a goodly supply of free water and electricity on hand just for chucks and giggles.

Commenter

smilingjack

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:10PM

@smilingjack: hunh?

You forgot:cost/tonne about $80 min (tick)BHP/RIO costs around $20 (tick)FMG mostly lower grade ore that they sell at a discount to the actual price (tick)massive debt (tick)glut or iron ore (tick)

Good luck with that trade.

Commenter

jezza

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:37PM

I'm shorter than a brides .. well you know. Never fun being a contrarian .. until proven right.

Commenter

50BahtLeo

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:25PM

MGX things aren't so bad with 500 million plus in the bank....any chance of a divvy?silence.

Commenter

BearshapedBull

Location

Mugpunters Lounge

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:20PM

lol. how tight can ya get.

Commenter

no banks .. no party!

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:04PM

Hoarding cash & due to make a silly acquisition son!

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:11PM

Citi groupd has a buy recommendation out on FMG. Can anyone find a way of discrediting this broker analysis? Was looking at shorting but I'm holding in cash now, only sensible responses please.

Commenter

Kyprios

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:20PM

Looking to short FMG too but not yet. As long as the Fe spot holds up there will be buyers for this stock but a near 21% rise off the latest lows looks unsustainable. Still I will long (with my finger on the trigger) short term if Fe holds up

Commenter

BTFD

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:53PM

@11.23 - so the story as reported elsewhere is that they put the month in the contract but omitted to note the year, after months of intense negotiations on the commencement date, leading to expensive litigation on this point. Debacle?

Commenter

Green Sheep

Location

beeehhh

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:14PM

"investors cheer woodside" but do the shorters?

Commenter

$42.05

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:04PM

Who holds the majority of America's debt? Is it China? So if America has a clash with China over Taiwan or Japan (for example) they say "I am not paying an enemy"...suddenly no debt and China held "assets" become as valuable as Confederate dollars. I bet debt to Axis countries in WWII disappeared. When the tea party gets in...never know. Wars have been started over less.

Commenter

Elric

Location

Melnibone

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:59AM

Everyone put on your tin hats!!

Commenter

Peasants no more than

Location

their rulers?

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:10PM

The US doesn't need to do that since it has borrowed in US dollars. They can simply print money to pay back their debt. But the problem for them is that confidence in the dollar is slowly but surely starting to disappear. Companies and countries are switching away from trading in dollars, which will eventually cause the dollar to slide. The US won't then afford their 1,000+ foreign military bases. Someone else will step into the vacuum.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:21PM

If history is any guide there will undoubtably be hostilities between China & the US at some time. China is seeking to expand its zone of influence and control and bumping up against US interests at each turn. So if there is a conflict of some kind, apart from all of the American debt that China holds suddenly becoming doubtful, the most damage will be inflicted on China by the US & its allies (the rest of the world) ceasing to buy from China. Tens of millions of Chinese will become unemployed overnight. That's a lot of people on the streets hostile to their gov't for the loss of their livelihoods. Mass civil unrest.Any hostilities will have to be resolved quickly before China collapses from within.

Anyone know why no one at the Delivering Alpha conference has said "My best idea is buy Australian property with DEBT and rent it out for a loss"?

Commenter

Jimmy Graham

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:30AM

Same people that doubled up their short position on Fortesque just to see it come back 5-10%, now trading 20% higher than recent bottom. Thats gotta shave a few whiskers of their position!?

Commenter

Be

Location

Calm

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:52AM

would these be the same people that said buying cdo's from the yanks 6 years ago was pure gold? a great investment! I will make my own investment decisions and stay as far away from the "experts" as possible.

Commenter

smilingjack

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:57AM

If you're on the top marginal rate + medicare levy + NDIS levy + debt levy and the value of the property is likely to increase significantly in coming years, buying with debt at current low interest rates and renting out for a loss isn't such a bad idea. Time your capital gains on sale for a period of lower income to take advantage of the 50% discount and lower tax rate. I have relatives who have made an absolute fortune in the Sydney & Melbourne markets doing just that.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:01PM

+1 Mitch.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:11PM

Mitch,

"the value of the property is likely to increase significantly in coming years"

That boat has already sailed my friend. Even the RE spruikers and the ARB have stated that the gains in property prices have peaked and are now in decline.

Speculating on capital gains is the only viable reason to neg gear a property

Borrowing to make a loss in this current RE market is madness

http://www.propertyinvesting.com/strategies/negative-gearing/

Commenter

fortune cookie

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:31PM

because they say ""My best idea is buy Australian property with DEBT and rent it out for a income gain every week and hopefully capital gain when i sell it" instead.

Commenter

got brain

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:32PM

@fortune cookie, I'll tell that to my rellies who recently paid $2.3m CASH for their latest residence. The market value of the negatively-geared properties they still hold is 2-3 times cost price. Even if market values slump they are still sitting pretty.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:29PM

+1 @ Mitch. Again.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:52PM

Mitch,

"I'll tell that to my rellies who recently paid $2.3m CASH for their latest residence"

That confirms my point. If they think buying with debt is such a great idea now, then why did they pay CASH for their latest property.

Commenter

fortune cookie

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:56PM

@ fortune cookie, think about what you just said. When you get to a certain age you die, therefore you can not take on more debt in your later years. LMAO!

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:07PM

@fortune cookie, think for a minute. They paid CASH for their residence because the interest on their home is not tax-deductible. They keep the purchases on debt for those properties that are part of their rental portfolio where the interest is deductible.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:08PM

Easy. No fortune for fortune cookie.

Commenter

Wally

Location

Flynn

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:26PM

Mitch,

Given that the OP asked

"My best idea is buy Australian property with DEBT and rent it out for a loss"?"

I thought that was the context you were referring to. Owner occupied is another matter.

Happy, "When you get to a certain age you die, therefore you can not take on more debt in your later years. LMAO!"

Brilliant, at least it made you laugh

Commenter

fortune cookie

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:53PM

The question has to be asked. The carbon tax raised $7bn in revenue for the gov't according to the Budget Papers. The consensus seems to be that consumers are expecting very little reduction in prices when the carbon tax is repealed. So who is keeping that $7bn. Wouldn't happen to be the power companies would it with their share prices going from strength to strength and o/seas companies falling over themselves to take our local companies over to get their hands on super profits. As o/seas ownership rises local tax collections from this sector will fall as profit-shifting is used to avoid local taxes.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:16AM

Ordinary people will not have any meaningful benefits this LPN is for big business and small group of super rich. The sap part is there are still people believe in Tony A/ Hockey "Budget Crisis" lie whilst this negative minded government throws away billions of tax revenue. So Sad. Not surprise that consumer confidence takes a hit!

Commenter

Up and Down is Norm

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:31AM

That is exactly why im holding DUE and SKI

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:41AM

new highs. the sentiment changed on fri morning. q. is will it pull backand stay in the 5400-5500 range?

Commenter

j

Location

syd.

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:15AM

Not such a strong day after all with one of the Big 4, WBC, going negative. Stand by for more?

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:07AM

could pull right back into the range as i said elsewhere. lets see.

Commenter

j

Location

syd

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:42PM

Why would Rupert make a huge takeover offer at the top of the market. Why pay full value? Allan Bond bought channel 9 at the top of the market and ended up losing big time.

Commenter

Wally

Location

Flynn

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:59AM

Because lending conditions are the best they have been. If you aren't acquiring you will be acquired in these conditions.

Commenter

DR

Location

syd

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:31AM

Isn't the top of the market when you always see crazy large takeovers? Remember RIO locally?

The previous Time Warner takeover by AOL at the top of the market in 2000 was one of the biggest financial fiascos ever.

Commenter

SamR

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:44AM

Rising wedge on the DOW near its top. Very bearish signal though high volume on the rises in the last two days. Top of the line at 17150 with close below 16900 confirming ...

Commenter

jezza

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:56AM

Sensational result from Woodside this morning.To all the bears out there what happens if the world economy kicks again?Within a year we will be back to sub 5 per cent unemployment ,worker shortages and a boom.Iron ore and gas are on fire all we need is coal to kick in and Australia will be booming again. The old 80/20 principle kicking in a minority of sources will create the vast majority of Australia's wealth like it always has done.

Commenter

Peppa Pig

Location

Ricmond via optimisticville.

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:53AM

Imagine what could happen to energy companies if the likes of Tesla develop battery technology to the point where it makes more sense for individuals to produce and store energy at home, as well as charge their electric cars. Massive game changer, will be interesting to see the composition of the ASX 200 in 10 years.

Commenter

MTD

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:43AM

Jeez Peppa, if that happens interest rates will shoot up & we will have a Housing crashI reckon there is some people that like a relatively high unemployment rate becauseborrowing money is cheaper.

Commenter

Rebecca Rabbit

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:10PM

@MTD. Yeah imagine.....

Commenter

Kyprios

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:18PM

@Kyprios Yes technology predictions can be pie in the sky, but when investing in companies you need to be aware of the future, basically that's what your paying for, future earnings. There were plenty of people promoting WPL when it was over $68.

Commenter

MTD

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:13PM

Every time US prez Obama or Federal Reserve Chairman Yellen open their mouth some confidence in the US economy is lost. As Obama is preparing for further sanctions against Russia it will be interesting so see by how much NYSE and US dollar will go down this time. One thing is for sure, Mrs Mekel has lost all confidence in the NY and Washington tricksters, so it's irrelevant what Obama decides to do.

The US will be the first Great Power in history to be laughed off the world stage!

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:46AM

TLS booming to a new high as well... go for glory !! :)

Commenter

clueless

Location

wonderland

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:34AM

TLS was a great buy a couple of years back Below $3 and yield over 10%, just not sure where the new growth will come from. Aussie market is saturated, and overseas expansion is very risky.

Commenter

MTD

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:11AM

Yep. I think people said this a couple a years ago as well.

Commenter

History

Location

Repeats

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:25AM

@MTD: maybe a purchase of Quickflix and a serious play at the content rental space?

Commenter

Irish Phil

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:42AM

Netflix is coming to Australia next year. Quickflix is dead!

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:09PM

Irish Phil - I might be wrong but didn't Telstra sell all of the Bigpond Movies content to Quickflix?

Commenter

TP

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:09PM

@ Irish Phil: I was involved with movie rentals for 7 years, it's a very competitive industry and with new technology there many places people can get content. I also think that mobile plans will come under pricing pressure again as competition increases. Telstra is a large dominant player, so there'll will be opportunities, I just wouldn't be prepared to pay a premium for any company with technology changing so rapidly.

Commenter

MTD

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:16PM

Cheers Guys, the ASX has made a new high this morning. Hope it quickly plays catch up now :)Ed's - This deserves a heading : NEW HIGH for the ASX in the NEW FY.

Commenter

clueless

Location

wonderland

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:30AM

So is today's rally solid or built on mud. I can't see any justification for big moves so my feeling is that the market is just having a lend of itself. Not a buying day. I buy for yield and the higher the price the lower the yield, particularly as the economy is contracting.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:29AM

What economy are you referring to? Australian economy is expanding just fine?As is the global economy.But if you are suggesting the official figures are lying let me go grab my tin foil hat before we go any further.

Commenter

MLJ

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:52AM

Built on the froth of Rupert's takeover offer. Are we beginning to see the beginning of irrational exuberance.

Commenter

Wally

Location

Flynn

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:04AM

Also, index option expiry today so that usually exaggerates any moves. I agree Mitch house of cards built on quick sand, I'm optimistic about the long term future, but there is a massive short term hurdle coming with world debt.

Commenter

MTD

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:07AM

@MLJ keep up to date. :http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/economists-see-fading-momentum/story-e6frfkur-1226985909627 Growth is SLOWING, unemployment is RISING, wages are FALLING, consumers are LOSING confidence. That's what happens when you cut gov't spending for blind ideological reasons rather than sound economics. Looks like the electorate is learning the hard way.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:24AM

oh yeah the market only reacts to yield seekers buying...uh uh denial,reports are out the figures look good so buyers are back,take off the shackles.....till next time.

Commenter

BearshapedBull

Location

Mugpunters Lounge

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:54AM

The party is over. For the demanding baby boomers the game is up. We cannot continue to spend beyond our means. That means everyone has to tighten their belts.

Commenter

Put Away the Ballons

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:11PM

Mitch from the ACT Have you made this comment to try and backup your predictions for July. Wrong in May, Wrong in June, not going all that well in July and I know you said most people couldn't predict the exact opposite to happens and guess what most people wouldn't want to !

Commenter

Goldfinger

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:14PM

@Goldfinger +1.

Commenter

Sticks

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:11PM

@Goldfnger & Sticks don't come crying that no-one warned you when the market takes a 5% tumble, then another. The prospects for the Australian economy are not strong with economists pointing to declining momentum from the Budget's effect on consumer confidence & spending power and now @11:15am talk of a bubble in US stocks.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:51PM

@Goldfinger & Sticks the market is already down over 50% from its high for the day. Are you riding it down or waiting to buy in.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 2:56PM

Starting to look like the surge was built on mud afterall. I hope there's a late boost in the index o/wise Goldfinger & Sticks are going to look right mugs..

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:23PM

Mitch, one warning is enough.

"I hope there's a late boost in the index o/wise Goldfinger & Sticks are going to look right mugs." Not sure how you come to that conclusion Mitch. By pointing out that your prediction of a budget-induced market crash over the last three months has been nothing but hysterical nonsense? The person who has been rusted on ALP voter is the one looking like a mug right now.

Last point, I love the desperation of focussing on a daily market movement to try to prove yourself right. Almost like you never made your daily hysterical calls over the last few months. Lol

Commenter

Sticks

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 3:56PM

Mud it was, with the addition of several bucketloads of water right at the end. Sorry Goldfinger & Sticks, sometimes I do get it right.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 4:14PM

...and just like that FMG have added 21% from most recent bottom. Great little run up! CBA a bouncing back, a little way off $81.05, WPL looking good for a breakout soon. Happy trading everyone.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:28AM

Question for reader:

If you make $50.000 loss on shares, can you offset it against your income ?

My understanding is a big NO.

Commenter

got brain

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:22AM

In Oz, cap gains are taxed as income, so yes you can offset other income.

Commenter

Life Is Good

Location

The Real World

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:42AM

You are correct - it's a big NO. Capital gains and losses can only be set off against other capital gains and losses. However, you can 'park' that $50k loss indefinitely and chip away at it with capital gains through the years. I believe there are different rules for some of the guys here registered as traders where their capital gains / losses are deemed to be income, but I don't know how that works so hopefully they will expand on it.

Commenter

Gareth

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:43AM

Only if you are listed with ATO as a stock 'trader' as opposed to a stock 'investor'; only if you make less than $250K per yr; and a couple of other specific requirements like assets in play, making money in at least one yr, etc if you satisfy the first two. But that is a general guide ... CHeck ATO for definition of a trader .. .

Commenter

jezza

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:49AM

Sorry Life is Good, but that is misleading. If he made a capital gain, then yes it's income and taxed accordingly (e.g. if he earns $100k a year and makes a $25k CG, his income is deemed to be $125k for that FY), but if he makes a capital loss, his income is not deemed to be only $75k. Can we get some more input to this question please from other contributors to clarify this point?

Commenter

Gareth

Location

Sydney

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:50AM

My understanding is that it depends.

A realised capital loss can be offset against realised capital gains (but not other income sources). Any "unused" realised capital loss can be carried forward indefinitely to be offset against future realised capital gains.

The rules are more complicated if the ATO has labelled you as a share trader for tax purposes. If this applies to you, then talking with your accountant would be a good plan.

Commenter

Dr Kiwi

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:52AM

@Life is good. What if I don't have any capital gain during the year and only have income from my employment ? Can I still offset it against my income ?

My understanding is a big NO.

WWWlion said yesterday "You can claim losses from shares against income, so why not property its just a different asset class". This is misleading.

Commenter

got brain

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:57AM

The link below summarises the rules, but doesn't mention how to treat the 50% CGT discount for shares held more than 1 year when you have capital losses to deduct. The losses need to be deducted BEFORE any 50% CGT discount is applied to the remaining balance.

So say you have a $50K capital loss carried forward, and then later you make a capital gain of $60K on shares held more than 1 year, you DO NOT halve it to $30K and carry forward a $20K loss the next year. If you didn't have any losses, then you could halve the lot and your net capital gain (the amount you pay tax on) would be $30k for that year.

Instead, you would first deduct the $50k loss from the $60k gain leaving you with $10K and THEN you could halve that $10k only to have a net taxable capital gain of $5k for FY.

You are right. You can only claim CG losses against CG gains, athough you can carry them forward to future years.

Commenter

Life Is Good

Location

The Real World

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:54AM

Today looks more like a sell RIO kinda start and RRL take some profit.Gee thanks TON dilute the mugpunters with a secret cash grab to those in favour....sophisticated and exclusive....yeah yeah we get the message.

Commenter

BearshapedBull

Location

Mugpunters Lounge

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:20AM

outta RIO 400 65.25 [62.63]1/2 down 1750 RRL 1.83 [1.49] 18/6

Commenter

BearshapedBull

Location

Mugpunters Lounge

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 11:44AM

LEO - Jupiter the astrological planet of luck has moved into Leo for about 12 months. Shares are often good in Leo and Leo trines Sagittarius and Aries which are historically the best months for shares. Could be good. Leo is a dramatic and active sun sign. Entertainment companies, media, art, child care, power, homes, are usually sponsored during this transit. Time will tell. Bon chance.

Commenter

It's All About Making Money

Location

Lennox Head

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:16AM

The Aus reporting that richer families will pay more excise - as it says because they tend to own 2 or 3 cars compared to 1 in poorer families - and this is being painted as somehow unfair. This is sad that people can point to this as a negative with a straight face. How can there be an expectation of a fair and balanced budget when a non-issue like this is considered relevant to the decision making process?

Commenter

DeaLar

Location

Sydney - Sharpening Occam's Razor

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 9:53AM

Bring on a wealth tax...Why aren't Labor and Greens pushing this?

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:14AM

The Aus, the politics of envy. We with our multiple cars are so angry and upset that we are paying more fuel excise than you with the one car. The rich are probably just as upset about their higher electricity bills to heat their McMansions. At least they will save more in carbon tax, or more likely get screwed more over the ficticious savings from its abolition. My heart bleeds.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:15AM

The rich dont live in McMansions. That is CUBs with their three living areas and separate 'media rooms' etc. The rich have petrol cards from their own businesses and claim part of their home as business expenses. So the system is fine - dont stress.

Commenter

GKB

Location

here

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:23PM

There are already wealth taxes in place that the wealthy dodge quite easily.

Commenter

DR

Location

syd

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:28PM

The Australian is merely pointing out that complaints from Labor and the Greens about the increased fuel excise are "off the mark" as wealthy people owning multiple cars will pay most of the increases.

The article certainly doesn't argue that the proposed increase in the excise is unfair. If anything it is for the increase in the levy.

Or is the Sydney edition of the paper different to the Victorian one?

Commenter

James

Location

Geelong

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 4:50PM

Sub Headline: Time Waner? Time waster?

Is iron ore priced per barrel ?

EDs: Hmmm, not covering ourselves in glory this morning. It's monkeys that are priced per the barrel. Thanks for the heads up!

Commenter

Mike

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 9:52AM

Bank of America settles to pay Fannie Mae and Mac $9.33bln however still debating with DofJ over fraudulent conduct in mortgages where they offered $13 billion(after Citibanksettled for the same amount) but DofJ want considerably more.

Source: ABC News America

ASIC take note!

Commenter

Harry Rogers

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 9:43AM

asic. oh please. they nailed 2 kiddie traders whilst the likes of eddie groves and the bankers "earn" $200K a week.asic the most useless organisation in the world. might as well scrap them and save the money. if you dont do what we say we will get very cross and point out finger at you! well maybe we wont go that far but we will still be cross.

Commenter

smilingjack

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 12:00PM

Yes smiler:How about the history

Previous ASIC Chairmen-

D'Aloisio- prev CEO ASXLucy -Man Part PriceWaterhouseKnott- CEO APRAHartnell- Now gives advise on ASIC matters and currently in dispute with ATO

MedCraft - 30 yrs with Soc Gen

Nevr any suggestion of conflict of interest?

Commenter

Harry Rogers

Location

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 1:45PM

A minor typo in the title: Warner not Waner!

EDs: thanks P2! Although it seems that the bid is on the "waner". *cue canned laughter*

Commenter

P2

Location

Jerra

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 9:39AM

LOL

Commenter

P2

Location

Jerra

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 9:56AM

Eds, I saw the name Murdoch so thought you were missing a 'k'....!

Commenter

Life Is Good

Location

The Real World

Date and time

July 17, 2014, 10:43AM

If you need any more convincing that the markets are rigged, and that we are essentially paying a tax to the high frequency traders...