I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

lol you should hear my coworker complaining about how "humble" he is and misses the elegance of the Vatican when Benedict was in the chair.

Yeah I like the new pope too, but of course I remain skeptical on any reform he wants to introduce.

To be fair, being humble does not necessarily mean refusal to wear the finery which comes along with one's station in life. It might be more appropriate to think about it as denial of self will. In the Catholic Tradition, both St. Elizabeth of Hungary and St. Thomas More wished to dress in a more simple fashion but were unable to do so because of the positions that they held, which demanded a certain level of dress. In order to do this and work on their humility, they wore the nice clothes along with a hair shirt underneath of them, which they told no one about. What would be more humble on the part of Pope Francis, to do as he is doing, or to wear some of the things which come with the office (which is contrary to his own will by the way), and perhaps do something to make them uncomfortable, wear a hair shirt, put a rock in his shoe, etc.?

To be fair, being humble does not necessarily mean refusal to wear the finery which comes along with one's station in life.

Well of course I don't disagree.

And look at all the wealth that is poured into our churches for the iconography, church buildings, vestments, etc. Hardly "humble" either.

To me, it is in fact a form of humility. We are giving the best we have to God, inadequate though it may be. We recognize our lowliness compared to Him and wish to glorify Him as best as we are able. We have lost much of that concept in the West since Vatican II and it is something which I hope we fix sooner rather than later. In the Catholic Tradition, when Mother Teresa of Calcutta was asked about the chalice of precious metal, etc. in their chapel, she replied that even the poorest of the poor deserved to give the best we had to God. That has always stuck with me for some reason.

Also, I apologize if I came across as snarky in my post above. I have been going back and forth with the "humbler than thou" Catholics since the election of the Pope, and it is wearing on me.

Its gotta be tough to be truly humble as Pope because everything you do gets reported and analyzed with tons of people commenting on how humble you are. If people were constantly telling me how humble I was, I'm pretty sure that would go to my head quickly. I'm sure that many of the actions that Pope Francis does he does not mean for the public to see, but then you've have the media showing him doing it and commenting on it exhaustively.

The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Its gotta be tough to be truly humble as Pope because everything you do gets reported and analyzed with tons of people commenting on how humble you are. If people were constantly telling me how humble I was, I'm pretty sure that would go to my head quickly. I'm sure that many of the actions that Pope Francis does he does not mean for the public to see, but then you've have the media showing him doing it and commenting on it exhaustively.

For what its worth, I think Pope Francis' comment "Someone can object, 'But I don't believe, Father, I'm an atheist.' But do good and we'll meet there...". should simply be taken to mean: let's meet in the doing of good works, and we can come to know each other better, and that can serve as a starting point for other dialogue.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

lol you should hear my coworker complaining about how "humble" he is and misses the elegance of the Vatican when Benedict was in the chair.

Yeah I like the new pope too, but of course I remain skeptical on any reform he wants to introduce.

I do not think that Pope Francis will attempt to push any reform through officially. Rather, I think that he wants to call RCs and others towards a deeper relationship with Christ through orthopraxis and service.

The moment that really warmed me up to Pope Francis was his off the cuff embrace of a disabled boy; it's particular poignant for those of us who have disabled family members who are all too often marginalized and neglected by society.

My hopes for Pope Francis is that he does for Latin America what Pope John Paul II did for Eastern Europe, getting rid of the hegemonic marxist third-world discourse in religion and of liberation theology specifically.

Also, I'd like to see less Carnival and party masses and, if not traditional ones, at least more truly liturgical forms of Novus Ordo Missae. Recently, a priest was excomunicated here in Brazil for defending open "marriage", homossexual "marriage" and other aberrations. I think it's a great sign. All those are true steps toward union.

Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

My hopes for Pope Francis is that he does for Latin America what Pope John Paul II did for Eastern Europe, getting rid of the hegemonic marxist third-world discourse in religion and of liberation theology specifically.

You may be disappointed, Fabio. Only yesterday I came across a report that the examination for sainthood of an RC cleric (his name escapes me) who proclaimed liberation theology which had been suspended during the time of Pope Benedict has now resumed.

My hopes for Pope Francis is that he does for Latin America what Pope John Paul II did for Eastern Europe, getting rid of the hegemonic marxist third-world discourse in religion and of liberation theology specifically.

You may be disappointed, Fabio. Only yesterday I came across a report that the examination for sainthood of an RC cleric (his name escapes me) who proclaimed liberation theology which had been suspended during the time of Pope Benedict has now resumed.

One more reason to like this pope. Probably trying to make up for less than ideal behaviour during Videla's dictatorship.

For what its worth, I think Pope Francis' comment "Someone can object, 'But I don't believe, Father, I'm an atheist.' But do good and we'll meet there...". should simply be taken to mean: let's meet in the doing of good works, and we can come to know each other better, and that can serve as a starting point for other dialogue.

For what its worth, I think Pope Francis' comment "Someone can object, 'But I don't believe, Father, I'm an atheist.' But do good and we'll meet there...". should simply be taken to mean: let's meet in the doing of good works, and we can come to know each other better, and that can serve as a starting point for other dialogue.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

It's where I pay the church tax.

You have to pay a church tax to go to heaven?

Heaven? That's "pie-in-the-sky" silliness for gullible fools.

Church tax is what you pay in order to mock them with a clean conscience and still get a proper Orthodox funeral.

There's also weddings and baptisms - for those who buy into the capitalist "family" myth.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

It's where I pay the church tax.

You have to pay a church tax to go to heaven?

Heaven? That's "pie-in-the-sky" silliness for gullible fools.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

I'm not quite sure why are you guys allowed to mock Orthodoxy and Orthodox people in this manner on an Orthodox forum?!?!?!?!?

A question I have been pondering too. At first coming to this website I had harboured a suspicion that for some their faith might be likened to the Tea Party at Prayer. How foolish of me, more a case of the Humanist Society scoffing at what they in their conceit hold to be so. Or those whose agenda whether open or covert is to promote Marxist ideology. In any case while we reportedly have free speech in the Western World, this is not the place for such. There are other forums where I am sure they would be welcome.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

Is it Marxist or Christian dogmas that "don't matter"? Cuz "pie-in-the-sky" seems to be the Marxist dogma about Christian heaven.

such things don't matter was referring to caring about words.

I am not sure what Christian heaven is. Most Christians would do well start to rid themselves of the word for a while. Romaios, you might be able to use such language and not carry the baggage it often does.

There is an age that has come is here and is coming. You know this. People start going on about heave and you get weird notions of disembodied "spiritual worlds" and radical discontinuity with creation as it was and is.

You end up with what seems to me to be a Christianized Islamic notion of Paradise (to the degree I understand Islam).

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

It's where I pay the church tax.

You have to pay a church tax to go to heaven?

Heaven? That's "pie-in-the-sky" silliness for gullible fools.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

This ^ , obviously.

And then what Romaios said about baptisms and marriages and funerals.I mean how can you guys call yourself Orthodox if you don't believe and trust in what Orthodoxy teaches.You guys are pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-atheists going to the pie in the sky...I just don't get it.All you do is criticize Orthodox people for their beliefs, mock everyone who doesn't see it the way you guys see it and make fun of the Orthodox Church itself.I just don't see anything "orthodox" in you.But you claim your faith is "Orthodox"....please!

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

It's where I pay the church tax.

You have to pay a church tax to go to heaven?

Heaven? That's "pie-in-the-sky" silliness for gullible fools.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

This ^ , obviously.

And then what Romaios said about baptisms and marriages and funerals.

You certainly didn't understand Romaios. Whose American usage is clearer than mine although it is his 6th language or something.

And certainly didn't understand me.

You would do well to read more of what people write before judging them.

Me, I could see having a problem with, but Romaios, is like walking polyglot encyclopedia of lotsa stuff, one of which is Orthodox.

There are more than a few of those around here. Thankfully, they won't care much what people say about them, cause in addition to knowing stuff they are good Christians as well.

And I don't Romaios fall into some atheist supporting, gay supporting, [fill in a group you don't like] supporting, guy.

He seems rather caring and very committed to the Church's teachings.

Sorry, but I like the guy a lot and don't want him tossed in with my lot. He deserves better.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

It's where I pay the church tax.

You have to pay a church tax to go to heaven?

Heaven? That's "pie-in-the-sky" silliness for gullible fools.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

Is it Marxist or Christian dogmas that "don't matter"? Cuz "pie-in-the-sky" seems to be the Marxist dogma about Christian heaven.

such things don't matter was referring to caring about words.

I am not sure what Christian heaven is. Most Christians would do well start to rid themselves of the word for a while. Romaios, you might be able to use such language and not carry the baggage it often does.

There is an age that has come is here and is coming. You know this. People start going on about heave and you get weird notions of disembodied "spiritual worlds" and radical discontinuity with creation as it was and is.

You end up with what seems to me to be a Christianized Islamic notion of Paradise (to the degree I understand Islam).

But their pathology is such that it is fruitless to to debate with them. Indeed I have now come across one Islamic scholar who could teach them how to have a scholarly debate without the pretensions, exaggerated sense of superiority and scepticism too often exhibited here. Whether or not you agree.

I don't know what Pope Francis meant, nor whether either his original words or the thinking behind them has been misinterpreted. That said, is it important given he is not an Orthodox bishop? And despite the very hard work of some thoughtful contributors here the sceptics seem to delight in trying to turn the thread into yet another 'knock about' session or metaphorically demonstrate how much higher they can pee up the wall than anyone else. Sad really.

As a child life in the playground experience taught me early which children you might play with or disagree with without risking harm and which ones never to be alone with. Sadly the latter even when grown up sometimes do not grow out of this mindset. And then give them the possibilities and anonymity of the Internet, their pseudo courage knows no bounds. Add into that a confusion in their minds between cap size and IQ, and the challenges multiply.

Ignore them. And in my clinical experience the problem will get worse before it gets better, but if you stick with the strategy things will change.

And I don't Romaios fall into some atheist supporting, gay supporting, [fill in a group you don't like] supporting, guy.

He seems rather caring and very committed to the Church's teachings.

Sorry, but I like the guy a lot and don't want him tossed in with my lot. He deserves better.

Hey, I'm no better than anybody here, nor do I have more faith, just because in my posts I seem committed to what our Church teaches. That's what I choose and want to believe, but I struggle often enough with unbelief, frustration, vain glory and all the heap of human misery.

I'm sorry that what I posted here triggered a fratricidal bashing campaign. I threw the bad seed...

And I don't Romaios fall into some atheist supporting, gay supporting, [fill in a group you don't like] supporting, guy.

He seems rather caring and very committed to the Church's teachings.

Sorry, but I like the guy a lot and don't want him tossed in with my lot. He deserves better.

Hey, I'm no better than anybody here, nor do I have more faith, just because in my posts I seem committed to what our Church teaches. That's what I choose and want to believe, but I struggle often enough with unbelief, frustration, vain glory and all the heap of human misery.

I'm sorry that what I posted here triggered a fratricidal bashing campaign. I threw the bad seed...

Ignore them. And in my clinical experience the problem will get worse before it gets better, but if you stick with the strategy things will change.

I think you are diagnosing the wrong folks.

Since there is nearly zero reward in anything I do, there is no reason to alter much of what I do based on the reaction of nearly anyone.

Now, those who seem keen to enjoy getting upset and responding like yourself and others, might find a peak in frustration as they realize responding with low content posts which increasing become merely attacks on my person have no punishing nor rewarding effect on my behavior, and thus must refrain from posting when and what they wish they could.

In my experience, the frustration does get much worse, but the good news is that is practically disappears once you get the worst of it.

Best of luck. Really, not being bothered by me is small milestone on a long road to health.

I don't know what Pope Francis meant, nor whether either his original words or the thinking behind them has been misinterpreted. That said, is it important given he is not an Orthodox bishop? And despite the very hard work of some thoughtful contributors here the sceptics seem to delight in trying to turn the thread into yet another 'knock about' session or metaphorically demonstrate how much higher they can pee up the wall than anyone else. Sad really.

For what its worth, this is a pretty decent commentary on the situation vis-a-vie Pope Francis.

I don't know what Pope Francis meant, nor whether either his original words or the thinking behind them has been misinterpreted. That said, is it important given he is not an Orthodox bishop? And despite the very hard work of some thoughtful contributors here the sceptics seem to delight in trying to turn the thread into yet another 'knock about' session or metaphorically demonstrate how much higher they can pee up the wall than anyone else. Sad really.

For what its worth, this is a pretty decent commentary on the situation vis-a-vie Pope Francis.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

lol you should hear my coworker complaining about how "humble" he is and misses the elegance of the Vatican when Benedict was in the chair.

Yeah I like the new pope too, but of course I remain skeptical on any reform he wants to introduce.

I do not think that Pope Francis will attempt to push any reform through officially. Rather, I think that he wants to call RCs and others towards a deeper relationship with Christ through orthopraxis and service.

The moment that really warmed me up to Pope Francis was his off the cuff embrace of a disabled boy; it's particular poignant for those of us who have disabled family members who are all too often marginalized and neglected by society.

I like the new pope more and more. First castigating capitalism, then making overtures to atheists. Not that bad. Plus it's also good he really irks those people that care about lace cottas. Not that i care, but most of them deserved to be annoyed.

Why does your faith status say Romanian Orthodox?

It's where I pay the church tax.

You have to pay a church tax to go to heaven?

Heaven? That's "pie-in-the-sky" silliness for gullible fools.

Thanks. I was going to point that out earlier in the thread, but people think I am just hung up on words. And such things don't matter.

This ^ , obviously.

And then what Romaios said about baptisms and marriages and funerals.I mean how can you guys call yourself Orthodox if you don't believe and trust in what Orthodoxy teaches.You guys are pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-atheists going to the pie in the sky...I just don't get it.All you do is criticize Orthodox people for their beliefs, mock everyone who doesn't see it the way you guys see it and make fun of the Orthodox Church itself.I just don't see anything "orthodox" in you.But you claim your faith is "Orthodox"....please!

Paula, you didn't get it. He was most likely obliquely referring to me, as if that accurately describes my beliefs or whatever. but, it's not that terrible , is it, to at least wanna be buried like a christian even if you didn't quite live like one? it further points out to the cultural hegemony christianity still holds.

"If salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything, but is thrown out and trampled under foot."

Hey, welcome to crazy land:

Quote

How does salt lose its saltiness?

. . . .

The first question that must be addressed is this. What is the chemical composition of the salt? Is it table salt, NaCl? For the sake of this argument, we’ll assume that Jesus is speaking of table salt.