2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I do not see any difference in meaning, or timing, or in activity of these two verses.

John N. Darby and his associate Scoffield are the people who first introduced the idea of the Secret coming of JESUS as a Christian doctrine. They are the ones who adopted futurism from the Roman Catholic church and combined it with Dispensationalism which they started. Finally they added that the prophecies to Israel the nation were unconditional and the 70 weeks not finished with the gap theory. Which is how we got the Pretribulation school of Eschatology.

Hal Lindsey is still the main modern proponet but since his predictions based on it have all fallen through He is not as well read today.

You confuse the eternal reign of God the Father on earth within the NJ with the 1000 year reign of Jesus after the Tribulation. They are NOT the same.

Read 2 Peter chapter 3. There are two days described in 2 Peter, the first is the Day of the Lord with is also described in the OT and the NT all over the place. This day includes Isaiah 11 and the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

The second day is described as the Day of God. This is not the same day as the Day of the Lord. The Day of God is that day when the tabernacle of God is eternally with man, after the heavens and the earth has been remade by fire.

When does this take place? I am sure you will say after the NJ comes down. But, we have no Scripture to confirm that opinion. However, the 1000 year reign of Jesus definitely confirms this. ---Mark_Eaton on 4/8/10

There will be no Lions and lambs, or asps in heaven. those creatures are for earth when God recreates again.

only one scripture in the bible referrences the 1000 year period, and that is Revelation 20. That segment of revelation is sequention. Starting with the 1st ressurection -> then 1000 year judgment-> second resurrection and descending of the NJ.

After the NJ descend, then and only then does the bible declare that the tabanacle of God is with man, but the 1000 year reign occurc before that.

In Isaiah 11, Jesus is commonly identified as the "shoot from the stem of Jesse" and the chapter continues on that "He will not judge by what His eyes see". The wolf will dwell with the lamb, the calf will lie down with the lion and a child will lead them.

In addition to this, it says that "They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD' and "The nations will resort to the root of Jesse".

When does this take place? I am sure you will say after the NJ comes down. But, we have no Scripture to confirm that opinion. However, the 1000 year reign of Jesus definitely confirms this.

Thanks, Mary... I came to Christ after 40 years of throwing the Baby out with the bathwater. I am no longer tossing the baby, but the bathwater needs changed often because of me and my fellow brothers and sisters.

I understand from the Bible that He has come and is coming again. In the mean time, He sent the Holy Spirit for comfort/strength. Jesus adds that we can do greater through the H.S.

However, I do not think that permits us to add theory to Scripture. The formula for this prevelant theory is: Coming 1 + (Coming 2 + a few seemingly related verses). In other words: Coming Stages 1, 2a, and 2b. However, in order to squeeze in 2a, we need to change what is plainly written: Coming 1 and 2. No matter how you number the pieces, it is still three pieces.

Anyway you slice it, always be covered by Jesus during all seasons and strengthened/comforted by the Spirit.

I agree with Mima 4/8. We will understand more at the point of Jesus' second comming. Remember that the Bible says that in Heaven people will no longer be married and I think that applies to any relative. It won't matter about who you were related to bc in Heaven it no longer applies.

GeoffYour missing my point. Whether you admit it or not, it is still your point of view of what the real interpretation is! We can go back and forth all day, month and year about which one of us has it right! As far as i'm concerned, I think my interpretation is correct! And you think your's is correct! Nonetheless, I respect your view- you could be right, and I wrong- or the other way around! Anyway God bless!

DePuTy, you said "it's my point of view" and that's just the problem. If we stick to the word of God instead of our points of view we can avoid guessing. I don't trust my opinion, but I can stake my life on the reliability of what God says. This is why Jesus said "it is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" Mt 4:4.

GeoffYour statement- DePuTy, perhaps if you stuck to what the Bible DOES say, you could avoid faulty interpretations.

So we must ALL believe your views and follow them- huh? Please, give me a break! I never said I was 100% correct, I could be wrong! But who or what made you an expert on future events? For all we know, I could be right and you wrong! I'm not asking to accept my interpretation- it's my point of view.

Jesus said "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass" (Luke 21:36) Without question, this statement establishes that the followers of Jesus who are watching and praying will ESCAPE by being REMOVED from their earthly scene. They will escape the events of the Tribulation and stand with Jesus. By no means does the word ESCAPE mean "to be hidden away." it means "to go quickly out from."

Well you guys can be here when God pours out his wrath, but I'll not be. As long as I endure til the end with Jesus, I won't see the great tribulation. In Rev 7 it speaks about how some people stood faithfully during the great tribulation, and repented of their sins, and wearing white robes. When Jesus comes back the dead in Christ shall rise first, then those that remain will meet them in the air. This is all before the great tribulation. What is so dificult to understand.

** Christians will go to be with God before the great tribulation. 1 Thess 4:14-17**

The only thing this passage says is that at some point, Christ will awaken the dead that sleep in Him, reunite their souls with their resurrected, glorified bodies, those who are alive will likewise be glorified, and we will be forever with Him.

It does NOT say it happens before the Tribulation.

Divers passages of the NT make it clear this happens AFTER the tribulation, however.

#1Jesus said "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass" (Luke 21:36) Without question, this statement establishes that the followers of Jesus who are watching and praying will ESCAPE by being REMOVED from their earthly scene. They will escape the events of the Tribulation and stand with Jesus. By no means does the word ESCAPE mean "to be hidden away." it means "to go quickly out from."

#2Jude 14-15 "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his HOLY ONES to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly" HOLY ONES- means a devoutly religious or saintly person!We also see this happening in Revelation 19. If the dead haven't risen until after the tribulation, how can this take place? This makes it clear- Rapture will preced the Tribulation! 2 Peter 3:11 "Since everything will be destroyed in this way- You ought to live HOLY and Godly lives"

GeoffI am using scripture! I'm not saying my interpretation is 100% correct- you could be right, or the other way around!First of all- when Christ left the earth scene, he ascended in the clouds! How does Revelation say Christ will return? (Revelation 1:7) "Behold, he is coming in the clouds and ALL eyes will see him!" In other words- Any one person who calls himself the Messiah in the near future, other than he who Returns in the Clouds- is the ANTICHRIST! This is an IMPORTANT clue!

DePuTy, I've noticed your habit of not giving references for your quotes. Noah was sheltered in the midst of the storm. The Hebrews in Goshen were also shelter in the midst of the plagues. They were protected by obeying God's instruction. Did you actually read Isaiah 43:2? God will be with us IN trouble-Rev 3:10. Your doctrine MUST come from the Bible or you will be deceived!-2 Tim 3:16

Christians will go to be with God before the great tribulation. 1 Thess 4:14-17, notice it says those who died in Christ shall rise first, then those left remaining will meet in the clouds. The ones that endure til the end with Jesus will not go through the great tribulation.

Jesus Christ said it many times in the N.T. that one would be taken the other left- meaning Rapture. Also, that this Rapture would happen in a blink of an eye! That we should pray to be found worthy to ESCAPE all that is about to happen.REVELATION 18:4"Come out of her (Rapture), my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues." Rapture will preced Tribulation!

#1I know many of you think the Rapture will occur after the Tribulation because Christians will be persecuted by the Antichrist! But ya'll are fogetting one important thing! Many people today believe in God and are Christian- Yet they continue to live a sinful lifestyle and don't dedicate any time to God! Will they be found worthy to be taken in Rapture? Christ said "Pray that you may be found worthy to ESCAPE all that is about to happen."

#2That is precisely why there is more to "once saved- always saved". I know many people that have been baptised by water and Strongly believe in God and Christ! But they continue to commit Adultery, lies and get Drunk every weekend! Is this was Christ taught the Apostles? "Have a great time because after my crucifiction it won't matter!" Absolutely NOT! Many Christians will realize it's too late when they see the Rapture take place and now they are in the Tribulation hour!

#3God rewards his faithful followers! He rewards obedience as he has shown in the past with Noah and Lot! What reward are we getting by obeying God, yet- we will be horrified when the Antichrist is pursuing us and we see our Christian brothers being beheaded? The Christians being pursued during the Tribulation will be those who know God and his commands- yet refuse to live the life he wants us to live! Be ready and pray that you ESCAPE the Tribulation! Be prepared- It could happen today!

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Rapture...2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Second coming

GeoffI know 'Noah' must have heard the suffering- but he was complete REMOVED from the punishment on mankind, and was completely safe and protected! What you said about Lot is true- he was REMOVED from Sodom and escaped Wrath, his wife disobeyed! We too will be REMOVED with a Rapture and escape the Hour of Tribulation! Noah and Lot were completely Safe and away- Not inside with the wicked- feeling and seeing the Horror unfolding around them! They were kept completely Safe!

DePuTy, no texts? Noah wasn't raptured from earth, but sheltered during the deluge. He HAD TO build an ark. We do too! Can you imagine the cries of external sufferers & noise of the cataclysm he heard? That was a time of trouble. Unlike Noah, Lot created his own time of trouble, pitching his tent toward Sodom. Next thing, he was living IN Sodom. God had to drag his family out, but Sodom was still inside his wife & she perished. God promised to go through the time of trouble with us-Isaiah 43:2

GeoffYou ask for proof with scripture, I've provided the proof. Noah was spared from the flood! Did Noah and his family have to swim and cry for help? No! Lot was removed from Sodom and had no part of their destruction! Christ said the Tribulation would be a time like the world has never known. Does it makes sense for God to keep folks who are acknowledging, and obeying him to be included in the Great Tribulation? No! Rapture will preced the Tribulation, it's the only way that makes sense!

When we are called up in the Clouds- it doesn't mean that Christ has returned! Christ will call us to meet him in the clouds thus removing us from the Hour of Tribulation- this is not the second coming! The second coming will be when he Returns in the Clouds to Destroy Satan, the false prophet, the Antichrist and ALL wicked men!After their destruction, Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years! That is the proper sequence of events given in the Bible!

DePuTy, Carol & Ramon, unless you provided scriptural support previously, I'm only seeing speculative statements which don't follow the biblical sequence of the tribulation, the 2nd coming, the first resurrection, the wicked slain, the rapture of ALL believers, the millennium, the final confrontation & last phase of judgement & sentencing or annihilation of the wicked, and the commencement of Christ's earthly reign-Rev 20:1-15. Let me know if I can be more concise.

The RAPTURE is going to preced the Great Tribulation! The Christians that have been living a life pleasing to God will ESCAPE! That is precisely why Christ said it would be the Hour of Trial for ALL mankind! People who doubt God exist, much less that Jesus Christ is the son of God- will be left for the HOUR of tribulation that will Test Mankind!Christians who are living a sinfull lifestyle- could miss the Rapture, It will happen in a blink of an eye! Be READY- Christ is Coming soon!

If the rapture is to happen AFTER the tribulation, WHO WILL BE LEFT FOR GOD TO RAPTURE??? If the christians are to go through it there is going to be so much death during that time and the christians are the ones that would be killed first so how many do you think would be allowed to live to RAPURE UP?????

The rapture has not happened yet till Christ comes back to get His people. The dead r n ot in heaven at all..they r in their graves, gone dust. It's their breath that has gone back to the maker who breathed it into them.God's plan is that the dead wait in ther graves till JC returns and resurects them.

What flood there would be, can you imagine the tears from all the generations! Thats why there will be no memory of this life and we will never know how life on earth was it will just be God and his angels to live forever in the New Jerusalem Heaven and Earth that God will rebuild according to John's vision and Revelation, It'll be hard to understand but as time go's by it will make Perfect sense.

Ramon, "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and His wife hath made herself ready" Rev 19:7. This is the time of the final judgement-v2. Have we missed the marriage supper of the Lamb?-v9

Truth? The parable of the wheat and tares has nothing to do with the Rapture. It has to do with the Second Coming.Many are confused and miss the Truth because they can't see the difference in the two events.Just like Matt 24 is about the Second Coming and not the Rapture.

Are you saying that the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine was started by Charles Darby? If so, then you need to get your facts straight!. We have tons and tons of writings that point to a Rapture before Charles coming into the picture.

How to you reconciled the apparent idea that the Church is already in Heaven when Christ comes again to judge (Rev 19:7-16)? How many times you people going to say, "Scriptures are wrong!"?

HOWEVER, if the blogger meant heaven, then my response is that we will have so much joy with those there, and in the presence of God himself, we will have no reason, nor time to be sad about those not there.

notlaw and Jack. I never mentioned a pre trib rapture, I was simply asking when will we find out if our loved ones made it? I don't care when it is as long as my loved ones go up when it happens. Cabesh? That means "Understand" in Italian..lol. How did you folks come to that conclusion that this was about WHEN the rapture would happen? I think we all need a refreshers course in "Pay attention to the question at hand and do not attack it until you understand it." LOL

You don't have to guess if your loved ones make it in the rapture. You can know for sure. Minister the Gospel to them, and then pray for them. This is taking action to make sure that they make it to Heaven.

When will the saints accept the truth about the rapture...of the wicked? The Bible is replete with The Kingdom of Jesus Christ on earth...not in the ether. As in the days of Noah, so will it be in the coming of The Son of Man. Who was raptured and who was left? Sure Noah got a boat ride, but certainly didn't fly a million miles away playing a harp on a cloud. Does mormonism (more man) believe that they're going to have their own planet? It is through much tribulation that we enter the kingdom!

notlaw99 asked, "How many questions are going to be submitted on this stupid subject?"Well, I don't know but if you hadn't posted that would have been one less.How do you account for the Rapture in Rev 11:9-12?Here we see the voice from heaven saying, "Come up hither." The two dead Prophets stand up and ascend up to heaven in a cloud.That my friend is a Rapture.How many times are people going to use the stupid phrase, "There ain't no Rapture?"

How many questions are going to be submitted on this stupid subject. Pretribulation and Midtribulation Rapture is false teaching. The post tribulation event was never been called Rapture. Rapture was started by Charles Darby in the 1830 it was false teaching then and it still is.

When we meet up with them again I guess. I don't think it is likely that we will be aware of those who didn't 'make it' though. The book of Revelation tells us that there will be no more weeping and I think we would do plenty weeping if we knew that some of our loved ones were actually in hell. I'm hoping that our memories will be erased in that respect.