(This is officially the last time I'll complain about the movies on this forum . . . ) I still can't believe that MR cut the New Moon scene where Carlisle stitches Bella up after Edward throws her into the glassware and explains what Edward is going through. Thank goodness the director overrode her, and wrote it back in! How disjointed could the story possibly get?

On the other hand, I do appreciate how MR portrayed the passage of time when Bella was a zombie. IMO she did that well.

Esme echo wrote:(This is officially the last time I'll complain about the movies on this forum . . . ) I still can't believe that MR cut the New Moon scene where Carlisle stitches Bella up after Edward throws her into the glassware and explains what Edward is going through. Thank goodness the director overrode her, and wrote it back in! How disjointed could the story possibly get?

OMG I didnt know that scene was going to be cut! That would have been terrible! I think film wise, they prefer action with the love story, conversations and story development must be too dull!!

Corona wrote:BTW, December, remember our discussion in Explorations about the Vote scene, the Volturi, and Edward’s explanation about how he could keep the Volturi away from Bella? I might not have agreed with Edward (I thought he was grasping at straws), but at least he offered a plan. In the movie he stands in the back in some corner of shame, and when he starts to speak Bella turns around and tells him to shut up. Wow.

Oh dear.

I suppose the real moral of this is that the movies do extremely well those things which they do well -- and clearly it's enough to make them utterly compelling for all the thousands of viewers who can simply let go of the books, enjoy the movies for what they are and not get bogged down in the might-have-beens. But it is a bloody shame they couldn't close the gap between books and movies a bit better.

“When did you ever promise to kill yourself falling out of Charlie’s tree?”

Esme Echo~ Not to pick gnits, but I'm all for credit where credit is due. The idea of shooting the time passing sequence in that way originated with Chris Weitz, not Melissa Rosenberg. Chris has stated previously that she left him a lot of wiggle room in that particular scene and he was particularly keen on things like the pictures disappearing from the walls and seeing Charlie and other individuals continue living outside of the windows. I think the most brilliant aspect of it was to have the revolving action of the camera... demonstrating in a way that EVERYTHING kept moving forward except for her. He's never commented on what specifically she wrote for that scene, only that she was pretty vague. Given that so many of the good things that came from NM originated with Chris, it doesn't surprise me at all.

Well, that clears up my confusion about who was responsible for Zombie Bella! Thank you for the enlightenment, Jazz Girl. I might have to check out more of Chris Weitz's work . . .

Thanks to babysitting a two-year-old for the last month, the theme song of Disney's Anastasiya was running through my brain this morning, and it occurred to me: Has technology really advanced so much since 2005? Otherwise, even the students at Forks High School would have been plugged in, technology-wise . . . and Edward might have gone nuts over all the bad music blaring around him via ipods, phones, etc. I wonder how many people in a crowd have a song stuck in their head, and how that would have ground on Edward's nerves. (At least the songs in my thoughts aren't as off-key!)

Esme echo wrote:and Edward might have gone nuts over all the bad music blaring around him via ipods, phones, etc. I wonder how many people in a crowd have a song stuck in their head, and how that would have ground on Edward's nerves

Hihi, it isn't really a surprise than that Edward didn't like high school anyway... (if you have read the script-that-must-not-be-named) you'll know that Edward really didn't like high school...although it was never mentioned I'm dead sure that bad music must have played a part in that...

Jazz Girl wrote:idea of shooting the time passing sequence in that way originated with Chris Weitz, not Melissa Rosenberg.

Why does this comment make me smile.... ... any chance to shoot down MR..huh...Still I agree that the transition scene of the months is done brilliantly...I think Bella in the book would have looked in a worse state, but I think it's a hard feat to make Kris look bad anyway...

corona wrote:the Volturi, and Edward’s explanation about how he could keep the Volturi away from Bella? I might not have agreed with Edward (I thought he was grasping at straws), but at least he offered a plan. In the movie he stands in the back in some corner of shame, and when he starts to speak Bella turns around and tells him to shut up. Wow.

As much as I like Bella finally speaking up against Edward (should have been in the book), I do agree that Edward's explanation should have been in it, now they show him sulky and defenceless when in the book Edward is about taking action to prevent the Volturi from finding her...

These violent delights, have violent endings...Like fire and gunpowder, they consume what they kiss

Mods~ A question before we look at posting. Will each of the major characters be getting a Guide thread or can we post thoughts based on the Guide on the individual threads with a basic *spoiler* warning? I have lots of thoughts but want to make sure I offer them up for discussion in the right place.

EDIT: Apologies. Found the Last Piece of the Puzzle thread and saw the listings.

After reading the Guide, there were several reflections on Edward that just struck me.

First, I have to say there were moments when I wondered if SM even understands Edward anymore. That is a hard thing for me to admit because I cannot ever think that there is anyone who understand their characters better than the author through whom they speak. But, the following quote just made me In the interview with Shannon Hale, SM talked about Edward's journey, specifically his time in NM:

"It was his strength that got him away and it was his weakness that brought him back" (p30)

I suppose there is a way to see it that way. It's certainly Edward's understanding of it. But, I suppose I always count on SM to be more objective, to explain the truth of his actions versus his skewed perception. I just read that and felt like Edward's greatest champion doesn't even truly get it. And that's wrong. But, I have a difficulty in reconciling that.

Something else that struck me out of SM's comments: the fact that Jacob exists essentially so that Bella can find out about Edward. She talks about the fact that Edward would never be able to bring himself to say, "I'm a vampire", so she had to create someone to plant the ideas in Bella's head so that she could say it for him. So Jacob exists because of who Edward is. Fitting, and yet, at the same time, so bloody frustrating.

The final thing that struck me from the Guide? In reading the stories of the other vampires, I couldn't help but be struck by the fact that there were several other vampires who were turned by choice and by their mates. Charles was turned by McKenna, Tia chose to be turned by Benjamin and Liam was turned by Siobhan. And these were individuals who chose "traditional" vampire life. I wonder if Edward was aware of that, or if, when he was made aware, it changed his outlook on his turning Bella?

JG, I wondered about that statement too from SM, I was hoping she would clarify exactly what she considered his weakness to be, there are certainly different interpretations of it. I suppose she is linking this thought to his telling Bella that he will never be strong enough to leave her again?

For me, that was always the agony and unjustness of what Edward had to go through. It isn't wrong to fall in love with someone. It isn't wrong to tell them that you love and adore them. Yet for Edward this always had consequences due to his nature. It wasn't fair, but he dealt with it as he thought best. To say that he was weak because he loved her and couldn't stay away from her and couldn't bear living with the lie he told her??? None of us are that strong, I thought that was the whole point. I just wish SM had clarified what she was saying, because in a way I see it as the opposite. Edward's strength was his total pursuit of what he thought would be the best ultimately for Bella, but his weakness was his inability to see that leaving her would never work. Chalk that one up to ignorance, lack of relationship experience, hard-headedness, arrogance, or what have you. I'm sure Carlisle warned him that his efforts would likely be fruitless, but Edward wasn't listening and he didn't discuss things with Bella. It was a double irony. I see Edward's strength in his return, not weakness. I would never use the word 'Edward' and 'weak' in the same sentence.

It's one of those things that have a contradictory nature to them based on SM's own comments. She sees Edward as ultimately maturing, becoming a real man by the end of New Moon that makes a leap forward in his maturity, wisdom, and acceptance, but stating just prior that his return was due to weakness? I think I have to chalk that one up to the nature of the interview, I'm sure if she was asked a followup question it would have been explained better. Or, at least I'd like to belive so.

"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”

corona wrote:I would never use the word 'Edward' and 'weak' in the same sentence.

I laughed when I read this, because yours and my opinion of Edward's character strengths apparently differ widely!

Edward is my favorite character in the Saga probably because, of all the characters, I relate most closely to him. Weakness? How about when Edward was hanging on Bella's eaves the first time he watched her sleep? He knew he should not be there, should not go in her room, should not even stay in town if she interested him. But he did them all anyway --and this was before "the change" that occurred that first night in Bella's room, which made the rest of his actions inevitable.

Edward's greatest weakness was probably his arrogance. It's hard to be humble when you're as good as Edward, but though he didn't strut around with his family, he still held himself emotionally aloof and thought he was pretty good, with super control, et.al. It took Bella to teach him that his supposed superiority only existed because he hadn't been adequately tested as yet!

I see Edward as being super-disciplined -- most of the time! He was highly ethical and honest with himself, but not proof against the fascination of Bella, whom fate placed in his path deliberately, it seems.

I think what SM meant by Edward's weakness in returning to Bella was a reference to Edward's conviction that if he did not exist, if he had died in 1918, Bella would have lived a normal, happy, mortal life (at least, until Tyler's van smashed her! Edward always conveniently forgot that little detail!) without all the danger she was subjected to because of her proximity to vampires, and without the danger of her losing her soul -- in his opinion -- by being changed into a vampire herself.

Actually we are not too far off from each other. Certainly Edward is arrogant, but I think this is just a semantics issue based on a personal definition of that word. I would use the term fault or flaw perhaps, not "weakness", but that is just my own picky preference and I know this is highly debatable.

Also, I would totally agree with you that Edward would those exact terms to describe him leaving; being able to leave was strength but not being able to stay away was weakness. The context is confusing, however, because the wording seems to be SM describing the conflict as an author rather than from her character's distorted point of view.

"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”