I'm looking to buy my first wakeboard boat and I'm going to demo a 23v next week. I want to hear what everyone has to say about them and any advise on any common issues or problems I should keep an eye out for. Thanks

They are as much as anything else. Looked at one last summer and the guy said it was pretty much at cost as he was looking into being a dealer and it was a dealer demo kind of think to see if they wanted to carry them. That boat was pushing 70K and they claimed that was pretty much dealer cost.

Hey Brian, I would tell you what the rest of the group probably will, go demo. Demo an Axis, MB, Master, Tige, Malibu, and whatever else you can get on. This is a decision you will be "stuck" with for many years so it needs to be complete and thorough. There will be a perfect boat that fits you and your budget.

Of course I would direct you to MB for price and quality. There are many included items that are usually options for other companies. I could coordinate a test drive as well. We won't preach about us being better than the next guy though, so best thing to do is get your butt in some boats.

Good luck and enjoy the search. Buying a boat should be a great experience and part of the years of memories. Of course turn to WW for all your questions and support in your quest.

Thanks for the input guys. I'm gonna try and get in as many boats as possible this summer. The MB does look pretty nice it is definitely on my list. The Axis is not however. I've heard nothing but good things about them but I just can't get over the seat that wraps up into the bow. Not for me!

I love the transom audio in the Epic. Epic's wakeboarding wake without any ballast full looks like that A22 pic. When you ballast up the Epic, it's a big wake! Definitely demo one and ballast it up and hit it!

I love the transom audio in the Epic. Epic's wakeboarding wake without any ballast full looks like that A22 pic. When you ballast up the Epic, it's a big wake! Definitely demo one and ballast it up and hit it!

Oh my... now you've gone and done it...

That Axis wake with 4k is pretty retarded huge... not a G23 but its BIG. Get some glasses breh

Brian, I get my 23V in 2 days. I'm pumped! I'll let you know my thoughts on it Friday but I was in one last year and thought it was the best wake I've ridden. Don't hold it against me but I liked the WAKE better then the G23 I was in. But that just me.

That's a sweet lookin' boat!!!
The transom audio is one of the main things that I like about the Epic along with the dual rudders and no carpet. I'm a little concerned about the interior space though, most 23ft boats look like they have a lot more room than the Epic. Maybe it's just the photos though.

That's a sweet lookin' boat!!!
The transom audio is one of the main things that I like about the Epic along with the dual rudders and no carpet. I'm a little concerned about the interior space though, most 23ft boats look like they have a lot more room than the Epic. Maybe it's just the photos though.

I had a buddy who had a 23v last year. The wake was decent but the port side would always wash over no matter what. He had a 21v for a little while and said the wake was better but the port side on that also washed over a bit. I didn't care for the wake much and the inside of the boat is small. If you had small children I would look elsewhere. It felt like you could fall out of the boat because the seats were so high and the backrests were so low. I don't know what they cost but I wouldn't buy one. My friend also had to program the engine to be able to surf? I would demo other boats. I just wasn't impressed with it at all.

That's a sweet lookin' boat!!!
The transom audio is one of the main things that I like about the Epic along with the dual rudders and no carpet. I'm a little concerned about the interior space though, most 23ft boats look like they have a lot more room than the Epic. Maybe it's just the photos though.

I test drove one and yes it feels small for a 23' boat. The interior is very shallow and bow space is non-existent. The one I test drove was new and had trim work around the console already coming off and the glovebox lid was slightly warped.

With 3 kids and one on the way that was a BIG concern. I'm still going to demo it to see for myself but it sounds like it may not be the one. Gonna demo the b52 soon too, it looks huge.
@Delta Force the dual rudder is supposed to make it handle much better and you can reverse in both directions.

Does the boat you are going to buy HAVE to be brand new?? I've been in almost every boat brand out there with the exception of the new G and the new star and sangers. Out of everything I've been in IMO there is nothing like the feel of a wakesetter. Sitting in them is so comfortable. Nice high backrest. It's ALL personal preference. Demo demo demo.

I'll start by saying I've never seen an Epic in person...there is a good chance there isn't a single one in the state of Ohio - but I've read about them a lot.

The Good:
- Inovative company. They do stuff others don't do, try things others haven't seemed to try
- Lots and lots and lots of factory ballast. Very cool.
- Not cookie cutter at all.
- The Anniversary Edition's gel that glows on each side is just wicked

The Bad:
- Discussions of poor workmanship
- Many say it drives like a tank and the dual rudders don't help with that
- Powerplants that just aren't up to par with what all the competition is using
- Though not cookie cutter, they sure are funny looking. Maybe it grows on you
- I think the transom audio is a neat idea, but do I want water constantly slamming my wetsounds speakers over and over? Maybe it is okay but I question the placement for the long term. Looks funny too.
- Forward swept towers are kind of the thing today - Epic hasn't got with that program yet
- Shallow interiors
- Wakes that are said to be finicky

I'd love to see and ride one, though not likely I'll get that opportunity. I love the idea of an aggressive and inovative company, but not sure I want to be the guy testing it with my wallet.

The Epic appeals to the core wakeboarder. When you go to sell the boat, you can remove most of the used boat market from your potential, which are the older, family folks that have money. Core riders account for a very small segment of the market, and that's who you'll be left selling too.

Personally, I am tired of their continued and outmoded advertising of having the most stock ballast available on any boat, when Centurion Enzos are nearly 4,500 pounds. My 233 has around 4300 pounds, which is a good bit more than the comparable Epic.

Apparently, Centurion is going to make some huge news on the ballast front for the 2014 model.

The idea of the boat is great, but the execution is very poor. The craftsmanship and the quality of work was very low on the boat he had. The graphics were crooked, the tower was mounted about 1/2 in lower on one side so it wouldn't fold, vinyl was mounted crooked, screws through random parts of the boat, etc.

Thats all fine and good, except as mentioned the wake is very finicky. It does was out on one side with weight pretty consistently.

If they were to build it correctly and sort out the wake, it would be an awesome boat.

@chase its been my experience that boats have mechanical issues, a lot!! Even good boats have issues and the more high tech and computerized stuff gets the less I can do myself. So I would prefer to get something under warranty for a couple of years at least before I have to start flipping the bill for every little hiccup. I would love to get in a Malibu but even the 11's and 12's with low hours are super expensive. So if I have to choose between a brand new "second tier" boat and a used wakesetter i'd prefer the new one.

Yep, zoomed in, still not seeing it. Have you wakeboarded behind an Epic? Was it loaded up? How many people?

Never ridden behind an epic. Bet its great but I very much disagree its close to a G... Not only that but I've read you can't use all 4k of ballast. What's the point?
But what do I know. Funnest wake I've ridden aside from a G was a 2011 VLX with stock ballast and wedge...

No. That would be centurion. If you want, you can completely fill all ballast in every tank, and on the 24 foot enzo, it is over 4,500 pounds. And from what I am hearing next year, the Enzo is going to have an option to RAM fill the entire ballast system in 60 seconds (all hard tanks). The Enzo isn't perfect, but let's not make stuff up on other manufacturer's ballast systems.

Never ridden behind an epic. Bet its great but I very much disagree its close to a G... Not only that but I've read you can't use all 4k of ballast. What's the point?
But what do I know. Funnest wake I've ridden aside from a G was a 2011 VLX with stock ballast and wedge...

I never compared it to a "G", I was referring to the Axis...and for the $130k that a G23 costs, I would rather buy a boat and a truck to match.

That was me ha ha. I was referring to the WAKE. I've been behind both and I just preferred the Epic. There is no comparison between these two boots the G 23 is flat out a better boat in every way. But when it comes to the wake I just preferred the Epic.

Epic is defiantly a boat you have to use to appreciate. One of those boats that sitting on the showroom floor defiantly doesn't work in its favor, To the people that say the wake is finky... Yes, but as soon as you know how to weight an Epic you don't have any issue setting it up every time your out without any problems. The entire ballast thingYour right enzo offers more but epic did this 10 years ago and now other boat companies are offering similar amount of ballast. Who ever said you don't use all the 4k ballast has never been in an Epic. Yes you use all the ballast No not at the same time. Why, because you don't need to.

I have owned two Epics and an A22 I would buy another Epic I wouldn't buy another a22 I just wasn't a fan

I wont call out anyone within the thread directly for there agenda or ties to Epic or formally to Epic or their ties to other companies, who are just in here to sling some mud. With that said FULL DISCLAIMER I repped for Epic boats last year and sold a couple boats for them, and that ended right after the first of the year and Im currently just a Good Will Ambassador.

Just to get a few things cleared up, Epic did have some issue directly after opening there new manufacturing plant as they worked the "bugs" out of the plant, and there image has suffered because of it, however the boat itself did not change. some of them just didnt get built to the standards we as consumers expect and frankly the standards that Epic expects. So yes there was issues, but Epic took care of the customer by rectifying the problem or buying the boat back, I know I have seen it done. As you would expect the bugs have been worked out. Some boats in the 2011/2012 model year were just not up to snuff and people have made there voice heard and rightfully so. However with big improvements at the factory in just about every aspect the 2013 year is looking good for Epic, fit and finish is tight, switches work, towers go up and down, the boat performs, period. Before believing what you read on WW go and demo one, then make your own judgments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordicron

Epic just pulled a Collegiate WakeBoard National tourney in TX 2 weeks ago an I heard from a rider that they had huge issues keeping Port wake clean. He wasn't a fan at all.

If one of the Epic guys wasnt driving the boat I can see this happening, it takes some tweaking and knowledge to get it set correctly, it took me like a month to figure out mine so that I could get it right every time with no issues. Personally I think the system could be improved and maybe we will see that in 2014, I have come up with a few solutions that have been presented to Epic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralph

The Epic wake is like a box of chocolates

I love this quote because its true, until you figure it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigkid33

That's a sweet lookin' boat!!!
The transom audio is one of the main things that I like about the Epic along with the dual rudders and no carpet. I'm a little concerned about the interior space though, most 23ft boats look like they have a lot more room than the Epic. Maybe it's just the photos though.

Its not just the photos the boat is narrower than most 23ft boats on the market, but there is still lots of space. Get in one and crawl around. EVERY seat has storage under it, and no need for ballast bags keeps storage space for well... storage

Quote:

Originally Posted by iShredSAN

Check out the design on the Epic swim platform (how it is attached). I hope you don't ever need to remove it due to storage, etc...

It is attached, so know that before buying, but please do check out the design of the Epic, not just the swim platform

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrousbird

I'll start by saying I've never seen an Epic in person...there is a good chance there isn't a single one in the state of Ohio - but I've read about them a lot.

The Good:
- Inovative company. They do stuff others don't do, try things others haven't seemed to try
- Lots and lots and lots of factory ballast. Very cool.
- Not cookie cutter at all.
- The Anniversary Edition's gel that glows on each side is just wicked

The Bad:
- Discussions of poor workmanship
- Many say it drives like a tank and the dual rudders don't help with that
- Powerplants that just aren't up to par with what all the competition is using
- Though not cookie cutter, they sure are funny looking. Maybe it grows on you
- I think the transom audio is a neat idea, but do I want water constantly slamming my wetsounds speakers over and over? Maybe it is okay but I question the placement for the long term. Looks funny too.
- Forward swept towers are kind of the thing today - Epic hasn't got with that program yet
- Shallow interiors
- Wakes that are said to be finicky

I'd love to see and ride one, though not likely I'll get that opportunity. I love the idea of an aggressive and inovative company, but not sure I want to be the guy testing it with my wallet.

-covered workmanship above
- not sure who says it drives like a tank? Come down to the Maumee River in OHIO and you can drive one for yourself.
- powerplant not up to par? Who isnt using a 5.7l chevy?
- they almost offered another tower option this year, but only having one offering allows to keep the cost down.
- the boat is shallow correct, all ballast is under the floor.
- wake is finicky true, it does have a narrow beam

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrod

The Epic appeals to the core wakeboarder. When you go to sell the boat, you can remove most of the used boat market from your potential, which are the older, family folks that have money. Core riders account for a very small segment of the market, and that's who you'll be left selling too.

I think people only say this because of all the early magazine reviews calling it "utilitarian" for the "core riders" but please tell me from your point of view how this holds any credibility? What is epic missing that the family guy needs, or wants? What doesnt it have that the common man wants? What options makes this boat only for core riders? What excludes the rest of the market? Ive just never understood this...
It must be because it has no carpet, the family man wants to spend hours dealing with mold...
It must be because it comes with wetsounds?
It must be because there isnt a 17" pop up touch screen that does all the same things switches and analog gauges do?

All the other boats mentioned in this thread are GREAT boats and Ive been on all of them, and even ride on some of those mentioned regularly. The best way to find out what boat works for you and your family is to go check it out yourself.

What is epic missing that the family guy needs, or wants? What doesnt it have that the common man wants? What options makes this boat only for core riders? What excludes the rest of the market? Ive just never understood this...

1. A clean wake with multiple ballast configuration from 16-24mph. (very important for kids and newby riders)
2. A nice surf wake with longish pocket (important for old people. Ha ha)
3. A deep interior with warm and dry cockpit.
4. Swept bow design which doesn't funnel spray into the bow/cabin when windy.

Here is my "from the outside looking in opinion" since i haven't been in this thread and know nothing about Epic other than looking at one last year and heck the dealer bad mouthed it worse than any of you!!

There is definately some hating going on, but read the forums that happens on any brand specific thread. Its no worse than usual and far tamer than some. But Tyler, AKA Epic Factory Hero, how is attacking those with concerns any different from the haters?

Here is my "from the outside looking in opinion" since i haven't been in this thread and know nothing about Epic other than looking at one last year and heck the dealer bad mouthed it worse than any of you!!

This.

Mine basically said it was a POS until you loaded it full of ballast and it was a monster...

It looked like a cool boat though, different for sure, definitely cheaper though. And it showed

Who wants to drop $65k on a boat with 4k ballast that you CAN"T use all at the same time and a finiky wake? I love the concept but the reports of a finiky wake, shallow interior and average to below average surf wave put this boat low on my list of boats to purchase when I was looking.
I've also noticed in all their ads over the years they never show actual pictures of the wake.
I would take an MB over an Epic.

To follow up what Tyler did say is true, even though my buddy had issues with his Epic, they were overall very communicative, and in the end, ended up buying the boat back hassle free (which surprised me).