> Hello Everyone,
>
> My site is finally back up and running. Sorry to those who were
> waiting,
> and I hope that it might help some of you who may not have been there
> before.
>
> www.joncrawford.com
>
> And, as always, questions and constructive criticism are always
> welcome.
>
> Jon

... Actually the blokes down under give it a thumbs down. :( They have the only real time on the design as I drew it, but Chris is having no problems with

Message 5 of 27
, Apr 1, 2002

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Owen Strawn wrote:

>
> Pat,
> What is the status of your gear leg design? Do you consider it proven
> yet? Are the drawings available? Any Idea what a fair price to have
> them made up would be?

Actually the blokes down under give it a thumbs down. :(
They have the only real time on the design as I drew it,
but Chris is having no problems with his, which mine is
a knock-off of.

Pat

David Baker

Pat & Owen, Actually, not a thumbs down, just a caution. The steel spring leg is great, I probably wish I had chosen one a little less stiff, i.e., a bit

Message 6 of 27
, Apr 1, 2002

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Pat & Owen,
Actually, not a thumbs down, just a caution. The steel spring leg is great,
I probably wish I had chosen one a little less stiff, i.e., a bit springier,
maybe off a lighter pickup or van. The gooseneck part bent and twisted under
operational loads. That could be the fault of the welder and could be
remedied by having the gooseneck made of 4130 or similar high carbon steel.
I believe that you can buy spring steel in an annealed state, shape and weld
it, then get it heat treated. That might be the way to go as long as the leg
is springy enough to take the shocks.
My wheel gear is working beautifully and a photo can be seen in the files. I
have landed it on rough grass several times and it handles that OK. The only
shortcoming might be the size of the wheeel fairings I will have to build.
At the moment, my wheels are the shape of air brakes.
Dave Baker
"a bloke from down under"

... Side loads from dodging Wallabies and Kangaroos no doubt. The gear was never intended for such abuse. Pat :)

Message 7 of 27
, Apr 1, 2002

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David Baker wrote:

>
> Pat & Owen,
> Actually, not a thumbs down, just a caution. The steel spring leg is
> great,
> I probably wish I had chosen one a little less stiff, i.e., a bit
> springier,
> maybe off a lighter pickup or van. The gooseneck part bent and twisted
> under
> operational loads.

Side loads from dodging Wallabies and Kangaroos no doubt.
The gear was never intended for such abuse.

Pat :)

owenstrawn@kscable.com

OK. Has anybody ever heard any complaints about Don s twistie gear? Looks like it might be lighter, but maybe people are afraid of it because they don t have

Message 8 of 27
, Apr 1, 2002

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OK. Has anybody ever heard any complaints about Don's twistie gear?
Looks like it might be lighter, but maybe people are afraid of it
because they don't have blacksmith skills? Any drawings available, Don?
Thanks!
Owen

> Pat & Owen,
> Actually, not a thumbs down, just a caution. The steel spring leg is great,
> I probably wish I had chosen one a little less stiff, i.e., a bit springier,
> maybe off a lighter pickup or van. The gooseneck part bent and twisted under
> operational loads. That could be the fault of the welder and could be
> remedied by having the gooseneck made of 4130 or similar high carbon steel.
> I believe that you can buy spring steel in an annealed state, shape and weld
> it, then get it heat treated. That might be the way to go as long as the leg
> is springy enough to take the shocks.
> My wheel gear is working beautifully and a photo can be seen in the files. I
> have landed it on rough grass several times and it handles that OK. The only
> shortcoming might be the size of the wheeel fairings I will have to build.
> At the moment, my wheels are the shape of air brakes.
> Dave Baker
> "a bloke from down under"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Panzera [mailto:panzera@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 4:01 AM
> To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] Steel Gear Legs
>
>
>
>
> Owen Strawn wrote:
> >
> > Pat,
> > What is the status of your gear leg design? Do you consider it proven
> > yet? Are the drawings available? Any Idea what a fair price to have
> > them made up would be?
>
> Actually the blokes down under give it a thumbs down. :(
> They have the only real time on the design as I drew it,
> but Chris is having no problems with his, which mine is
> a knock-off of.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Dragonflylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Dragonflylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

owenstrawn@kscable.com

WRT the MKII gear boxes, I don t see anything in the plans about tapering the channel-to-channel spacing, but I could swear I saw it somewhere. Does anybody

Message 9 of 27
, Apr 1, 2002

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WRT the MKII gear boxes, I don't see anything in the plans about
tapering the channel-to-channel spacing, but I could swear I saw it
somewhere. Does anybody remember anything about this?
Thanks!
Owen

oneskydog@aol.com

In a message dated 4/1/2002 5:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, ... Owen I know that the bottom is thicker than the top. It is a slight angle, but I cannot lay

> WRT the MKII gear boxes, I don't see anything in the plans about
> tapering the channel-to-channel spacing, but I could swear I saw it
> somewhere. Does anybody remember anything about this?
> Thanks!
> Owen
>

Owen I know that the bottom is thicker than the top. It is a slight angle,
but I cannot lay my hands on a number. this spreads the load over the gear
box instead of putting the retaining bolt in shear with the whole load.

Regards,

One Sky Dog

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Graeme Davey

... I don t think there was a specific number given , just allow aprox 1/16 inch wider at the bottom, to make removal easier Suprisingly, there is very little

> In a message dated 4/1/2002 5:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> owenstrawn@... writes:
>
> > WRT the MKII gear boxes, I don't see anything in the plans about
> > tapering the channel-to-channel spacing, but I could swear I saw it
> > somewhere. Does anybody remember anything about this?
> > Thanks!
> > Owen
> >
>
> Owen I know that the bottom is thicker than the top. It is a slight angle,
> but I cannot lay my hands on a number. this spreads the load over the gear
> box instead of putting the retaining bolt in shear with the whole load.
>
> Regards,
>
> One Sky Dog

I don't think there was a specific number given , just allow aprox 1/16 inch
wider at the bottom, to make removal easier
Suprisingly, there is very little load forcing the leg up into the gear box
because of the angle back on the leg ,
The landing forces are more back rather than up. the gear leg never seems to
be really jammed in there.
Graeme in Aust.

Paul Zimmermann

Owen,I agree! When I was building the gear boxes, it did
say to build them at an angle. I would imagine it was
to wedge them into place!Paul Zimmermann

Message 12 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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Owen,

I agree! When I was building the gear boxes, it did
say to build them at an angle. I would imagine it was
to wedge them into place!

Dave , Pat and Owen------- The gear works well if built according to plans. For the gooseneck you need a strong steel. I used T-4. recomended by a welder.

Message 13 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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Dave , Pat and Owen------- The gear works well if built according to
plans. For the gooseneck you need a strong steel. I used T-4.
recomended by a welder. The spring itself works well and to get a bit
more spring you shorten the top of the spring , not the bottom. I have
had no problems at all on mine at all and would highly recommend the
steal landing gear. Just my 2 cents.--------- 1.3 Canadian. Canada
Chris

DorotheaKeats and ChrisWalterson

Owen ----The gear box should be made about 1/16 smaller at the top than the bottom. Taper the gear leg he same This is to prevent the gear from slidding

Message 14 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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Owen ----The gear box should be made about 1/16 smaller at the top
than the bottom. Taper the gear leg he same This is to prevent the gear
from slidding through the top of the canard.

Don Stewart

Twistie Steel gear legs have been at for some time: http://www.si-inc.com/dragonfly/gearlegs/ Don AZ

>
> OK. Has anybody ever heard any complaints about Don's twistie gear?
> Looks like it might be lighter, but maybe people are afraid of it
> because they don't have blacksmith skills? Any drawings available, Don?
> Thanks!
> Owen
>
> > Pat & Owen,
> > Actually, not a thumbs down, just a caution. The steel spring leg is great,
> > I probably wish I had chosen one a little less stiff, i.e., a bit springier,
> > maybe off a lighter pickup or van. The gooseneck part bent and twisted under
> > operational loads. That could be the fault of the welder and could be
> > remedied by having the gooseneck made of 4130 or similar high carbon steel.
> > I believe that you can buy spring steel in an annealed state, shape and weld
> > it, then get it heat treated. That might be the way to go as long as the leg
> > is springy enough to take the shocks.
> > My wheel gear is working beautifully and a photo can be seen in the files. I
> > have landed it on rough grass several times and it handles that OK. The only
> > shortcoming might be the size of the wheeel fairings I will have to build.
> > At the moment, my wheels are the shape of air brakes.
> > Dave Baker
> > "a bloke from down under"
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Patrick Panzera [mailto:panzera@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 4:01 AM
> > To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] Steel Gear Legs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Owen Strawn wrote:
> > >
> > > Pat,
> > > What is the status of your gear leg design? Do you consider it proven
> > > yet? Are the drawings available? Any Idea what a fair price to have
> > > them made up would be?
> >
> > Actually the blokes down under give it a thumbs down. :(
> > They have the only real time on the design as I drew it,
> > but Chris is having no problems with his, which mine is
> > a knock-off of.
> >
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Dragonflylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Dragonflylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Dragonflylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Owen Strawn

Thanks, Don - I guess I just skimmed over the dimensions in the text. Do you know of many users? Owen ... __________________________________________________ Do

Message 16 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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Thanks, Don - I guess I just skimmed over the dimensions in the text.
Do you know of many users?
Owen

Chris, Using steel like T4 makes a lot of sense. I think that the design is inherently good, I just stuffed up by assuming that the guy who plasma cut the

Message 17 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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Chris,
Using steel like T4 makes a lot of sense. I think that the design is
inherently good, I just stuffed up by assuming that the guy who plasma cut
the steel for me understood that I wanted something of that hardness.
Apparently he gave it to his apprentice to do and the result was a failure.
Quality control is essential.
My present fix for the problem is working well so i will probably stick with
it for now.
Dave Baker

Dave , Pat and Owen------- The gear works well if built according to
plans. For the gooseneck you need a strong steel. I used T-4.
recomended by a welder. The spring itself works well and to get a bit
more spring you shorten the top of the spring , not the bottom. I have
had no problems at all on mine at all and would highly recommend the
steal landing gear. Just my 2 cents.--------- 1.3 Canadian. Canada
Chris

... I just checked the plans, no hardness is specified. I ll fix that. Pat

Message 18 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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David Baker wrote:

>
> Chris,
> Using steel like T4 makes a lot of sense. I think that the design is
> inherently good, I just stuffed up by assuming that the guy who plasma
> cut
> the steel for me understood that I wanted something of that hardness.
> Apparently he gave it to his apprentice to do and the result was a
> failure.
> Quality control is essential.

I just checked the plans, no hardness is specified.
I'll fix that.

Pat

John Kunz

Do you know of many users? Owen Justin Mace uses these gear legs. He has flown way over gross routinely. He says they work great. John Kunz [Non-text

Message 19 of 27
, Apr 2, 2002

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Do you know of many users?
Owen

Justin Mace uses these gear legs. He has flown way over gross routinely. He says they work great.
John Kunz

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

owenstrawn

Don, is that just spring steel flat stock, or is it curved like a leaf spring? Owen

Message 20 of 27
, Apr 3, 2002

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Don, is that just spring steel flat stock, or is it curved like a leaf
spring?
Owen

It is flat stock, untreated. We told the spring company that we were fabricating a prototype trailer suspension system. When the twisting and drilling and

Message 21 of 27
, Apr 3, 2002

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It is flat stock, untreated. We told the spring company that we were
fabricating a prototype trailer suspension system. When the twisting and
drilling and cutting and tweaking was finished, the two legs went back
to the spring company where they heat treated the "springs" (6-8 hour
operation of heat/quench in oil/repeat). The initial cost of the raw
stock include the heat-treating process when we were through bending and
drilling.

Note that after treating, there is no opportunity for camber caster
adjustment. We mounted the legs in the DF BEFORE heat-treating, weighted
the seats, fueled it up, and checked the camber (0 degrees) and toe-out
(1 degree) UNDER LOAD.

Adjustments were made by removing the gearleg, chucking it back into the
vise, heating the bend spot cherry red with a torch and adjusting the
bend with two crescent wrenches (as described in the article at the
website), cooling the leg, reinstalling and measuring camber/toeout
again.

For what it's worth, the first set of new legs was fabbed during a
holiday weekend, so we tried to heat-treat our handiwork ourselves with
a torch and cooling liquid (I want to say peanut oil, but I think it was
water). Don't waste your gas or energies duplicating that effort.
Another replacement set was bent and drilled, then went directly to the
spring shop for heat treating after the holiday weekend.

Also FYI, it is true that the bends are the weak link of the gear-leg
system. But that is how it should be. My original twist gear leg folded
right at the twist during side loading in a ground loop at 60-something
from a broken tailwheel bell-crank. The gear looked ugly, but saved the
canard from erasing itself on the runway or dragging itself through the
marbles. I'm sold on this design.

Don
AZ
"The above information is for educational purposes only. No warranty,
expressed or implied as to the suitability to any specific application."

I think there were 5 original sets in the AZ club several years ago. Other than Justin in Tucson, I think Larry Brown in Scottsdale is running on them. The

Message 22 of 27
, Apr 3, 2002

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I think there were 5 original sets in the AZ club several years ago.
Other than Justin in Tucson, I think Larry Brown in Scottsdale is
running on them. The remaining 2 sets went on flying planes that I have
since lost track of.

Three years back, David B landed his DF at Ottawa and ground-looped when
he ran out of runway. He had (I think) the Laribee Truck Spring style
steel gear leg. When it side loaded, nothing on the gearleg gave way, so
the entire gearleg rotated around the retaining bolt and sliced through
gear box in the canard. Fortunately the slicing action did not reach the
spar, so the field repair on Sunday went pretty smoothly and he left for
home (uneventfully).

The point is, even the glas gear leg has a weak point designed-in, to
give way with excessive sideloading in order to save the canard.

Don
AZ
"The above information is for educational purposes only. No warranty,
expressed or implied as to the suitability to any specific application."

Here is a link to some recent photos of a couple sets made here in Tucson. I think there was about a total of 4hrs invested in the fab of both sets. The

Message 23 of 27
, Apr 3, 2002

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Here is a link to some recent photos of a couple sets made here in
Tucson. I think there was about a total of 4hrs invested in the fab
of both sets. The general process was that in the instructions on
Don's page. Stock was a little smaller. Just make sure you drill the
holes BEFORE they are hardened.

--- In Dragonflylist@y..., Owen Strawn <owenstrawn@k...> wrote:
> Pat,
> What is the status of your gear leg design? Do you consider it
proven
> yet? Are the drawings available? Any Idea what a fair price to have
> them made up would be?
> Thanks!
> Owen
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/

Mike Wright

In the videos supplied with the plans. Taper by using a toothpick or nail when molding the flox part of the upper leg in the box. Mike Wright South Africa ...

Message 24 of 27
, Apr 3, 2002

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In the videos supplied with the plans.
Taper by using a toothpick or nail when molding the flox part of the upper
leg in the box.
Mike Wright
South Africa

> The steel gear legs were relativly inexpensive and easy to build.
> You have to have a vise, two large pipe wrenches, and an oxy-
> aceteline torch. Don't forget to get them hardened after bending. I
> think that there is someone on the list who can stress that last
> point.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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