Is the Night's King what happens when a greenseer is made into a white walker?

7 posts in this topic

I've been thinking about this. The 3ec is a greenseer as now is Bran. When Bran was traveling through time on his visionquest the 3ec could see him and they could interact. So can the Night's King. Bran and the 3ec are both powerful wargs, So what I'm thinking is that the cotf made a past greenseer into a WW so that he could warg the dead which is where wights come from. They did this as a weapon in their war with the First Men. But when they made peace the "Night's King" was somehow betrayed which is why he is on a vengeance run. I also think that he is a past Stark whose aim is Winterfell and the crypts. I'm using WW to define what Benjen and the Night's King are. The WWs that the Night's King makes from Craster's sons are obviously different creatures (perhaps the ice equivalent of Mel's shadows). In the books I wonder if the "Night's King" (who doesn't yet exist if he ever will) and the Warg King are the same people.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

I've been thinking about this. The 3ec is a greenseer as now is Bran. When Bran was traveling through time on his visionquest the 3ec could see him and they could interact. So can the Night's King. Bran and the 3ec are both powerful wargs, So what I'm thinking is that the cotf made a past greenseer into a WW so that he could warg the dead which is where wights come from. They did this as a weapon in their war with the First Men. But when they made peace the "Night's King" was somehow betrayed which is why he is on a vengeance run. I also think that he is a past Stark whose aim is Winterfell and the crypts. I'm using WW to define what Benjen and the Night's King are. The WWs that the Night's King makes from Craster's sons are obviously different creatures (perhaps the ice equivalent of Mel's shadows). In the books I wonder if the "Night's King" (who doesn't yet exist if he ever will) and the Warg King are the same people.

Good stuff, I enjoyed reading it.

I'm not sure about most of it (not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I just don't know), but I DO seem to strongly recall that I've heard the Night's King is an ancient Stark ancestor (not sure if that was just rumor, or confirmed, though)

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

The Nights King was supposedly the 13th Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. He could be a Stark as well which would kind of make sense. Benjen != Coldhands in the books but he might be something more powerful or he is just plain dead.

I think Bran will be the communication line between the Others and Men. Unless they have an Ice Dragon, the Others & WWs are no match for Dany's fire breathing dragons. So I think Bran wargs into the 3 dragons to stop them and negotiate a peace between Others and Men, probably between the NK and Jon. He very well may need to be transformed to be an Other to accomplish this, perhaps Meera is there to "stab" Bran (Nissa) in the heart with dragon glass (Lightbringer). Or vice versa and Meera is the new Ice Queen.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

But the NK can raise the dead. If Bran could do that, wouldn't he have restored Hodor and Summer? Or do you mean that Bran has to be turned into a WW first? But NK touched him. Can Bran now raise the dead? I still don't think so but I do think the Stark lineage is in place.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

But the NK can raise the dead. If Bran could do that, wouldn't he have restored Hodor and Summer? Or do you mean that Bran has to be turned into a WW first? But NK touched him. Can Bran now raise the dead? I still don't think so but I do think the Stark lineage is in place.

What I mean is that a living greenseer can warg the living and a "dead" greenseer can warg the dead which is why the cotf did to him what they did. I'm not stating it as a fact just a supposition. Benjen was made undead by the same power that the NK was made the NK but he doesn't seem to have any special abilities. The NK doesn't raise the dead but simply wargs their bodies so that they can move and obey his commands (like Bloodravens murder of crows). Fire drives him out and when that happens the wights revert to being dead (the book explains this explicitly when Sam sets one alight so this at least seems pretty solid). From the books we know that killing the NK somehow "freed" the NW from their slavery. We also know Sixskins stated only that it was an abomination to warg a human being not that it was impossible (futile in his case but he was merely gifted and not in the same league remotely as Bran, Bloodraven, or ???). So if the NK when living was a powerful greenseer and hence a very powerful warg he could "enslave" the NW by warging them. When he was made dead he could no longer do this so they were "freed" but now he could warg the dead. I know the books and show are different but I think there would be broad union at least on what the NK is which is why I bring it up.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Warging and creating wights does I'd agree seem like it might have potential to be different aspects of the same thing. Perhaps another way to look at it might be that the children actually made an error, there intension might have been to create Walkers merely as "super soldiers" who they could kill off when needed with there obsidian weapons. Maybe they did this many times but then they turned a warg or greensear by accident or without knowing the effect it would have and the result was his ability was shifted into raising wights, that would maybe explain why they lost control and the wights were both more numerous and not vulnerable to obsidian?

You mention that the show might be combining the Nights King and the Warg King but perhaps there opposites? perhaps rather than human wargs existing already they were actually created by the CotF in order to fight against the Nights King/Walkers, warging and wight raising being similar because they both come from the CotF's magic. The Starks defeated the Warg King and took his daughters as wives didn't they so they potentially inherited his role.

I wouldn't actually be surprised if next season the Northern part of the story becomes more expositional rather than based on political conflict and battles(maybe Sansa heads south and gets involved with that?). Really the north and beyond the wall has been there most of the big action has been for the last 3 seasons but next season with Dany on the way there obviously potential for a lot more action further south so a shift away from that does seem to make sense, maybe with Jon and Bran meeting up?

I don't think the actual conflict(or whatever conclusion we see) with the Walkers needs to be that long to be effective, indeed I think theres a risk that if you draw these kind of things out too long you risk lessening there impact.