All That Remains: Against the Wind

Oli Herbert (left) with his Ibanez Xiphos
and Mike Martin with his PRS Custom
22. Photo by Justin Borucki

Evolution can be volatile for a band.
How do you continue to evolve without
alienating the fans who were there
at the beginning? It’s a serious question in light
of the tough economic times that have put concert
ticket and album sales at an all-time low.
Do you continue the recipe that guarantees success,
or risk failure and pursue your changing
vision with the confidence that your fan base
will follow?

All That Remains chose the latter. Their
new release, For We Are Many, is their fifth
studio album and it continues their legacy of
reaching beyond their metalcore beginnings.
Guitarists Mike Martin and Oli Herbert offset
their brutally synchronized 6-string assaults with
lyrical melodies and cascading counterpoint, all
in service of tuneful compositions. We recently
caught up with Herbert and Martin to talk about
the strong hooks, clean vocals, and dynamic
playing that works hand-in-hand with jackhammer
rhythms, death growls, and hammer-fisted
riffage on For We Are Many.

How do you divide guitar duties between
yourselves?

Oli Herbert: I usually come up with a lot of
the guitar riffs. Mike has good judgment when
it comes to what’s too much. He’ll say, “That’s
a little crazy—maybe you should tone it down
a little bit.” He’s good at arrangement. He’ll
say, “How would that sound with the drums,”
whereas I’m thinking about putting it with a
string section. I kind of orchestrate, but we all
contribute to creating the songs. Mike also has
a really good right hand—especially for the fast,
rhythmic triplet stuff. He has an excellent sense
of timing that I don’t possess. My hand is not as
clean as his, so in the studio Mike takes care of
all that stuff. Things that involve more left-hand
finesse and chord switches, I’ll take care of.Mike Martin: We’ve done it enough times that
it’s pretty easy to sort out. If someone has a riff,
we can tell right away who’s going to record it.
Whoever records the first part of the riff has to
record the harmony to it, just to keep the tightness
with the hands. If it’s a really difficult righthand
riff, I’ll usually track it. If it’s something
really difficult with the left hand, Oli usually
takes care of it.
I understand you and your bandmates have
very different influences. Does that make
it difficult to write parts that everyone is
happy with?
Herbert: The disadvantage is that it does make
it difficult to get people to agree—trying to
work around everyone’s completely different take
on what the music should sound like. But it’s
an advantage because I think we have a unique
sound. Obviously, we’re not a groundbreaking
band—we’re not trying to be like Frank Zappa
or something like that—but I think all our elements
combine to create something unique that
you don’t hear in any other bands.Martin: It’s easier than you may think, considering
the differences in what we all like. There’s a
lot of clashing personalities with music in this
band, but everybody understands what variety
will bring to the song. There are a lot of bands
out there that, to me, sound really flat. A lot of
straight thrash-metal bands bore me to tears.

When you say there are differences, are you
talking polar opposites—like, there’s someone
in the band who wants more of a Dixieland
jazz sound?

Oli Herbert flashes
the metal sign as he
grips his 27-fret Ibanez
Xiphos, which features
EMG pickups, a 5-piece
body, gold-plated hardware,
a single Volume
knob, and a 3-way
selector switch. Photo
by Justin Borucki

Herbert: We all know that we’re trying to make
metal music, but a lot of us don’t really listen to
metal too much on our own. For example, Phil
[Labonte, vocals] listens to a lot of pop music,
and Mike listens to John Mayer and stuff like
that. I like a lot of jazz and classical music. I
think it makes us the band we are. If we’re all listening
to the same five metal bands, guess what?
We’re all probably going to sound like them. I
think it’s cool to incorporate some of those more
eclectic influences.Martin: But I don’t come into practice saying,
“John Mayer would play it like this!” [Laughs.]
I would never come in with a riff inspired by
John Mayer—it wouldn’t fit. I don’t do too many
leads, but when I do play them, you can tell
they’re a lot bluesier. I like a lot of blues guitar
players. Oli plays such technical guitar solos—
he’s a note festival—so I like to do something
completely out of the norm. Phil and I are basically
there to create some air. It’s a cool contrast
and it works out really well.

Compared to your previous record, For We Are
Many has more dynamics, more melody, and
more hooks. In my mind that’s a good thing,
but some of your fans are like, “They’re trying
to be more pop and mainstream!”
Martin: That crap has been happening for the
last six years now. As soon as we had one part
that had actual singing—which came out seven
years ago—people started running their mouths.
Those black-T-shirt metal kids are just scared to
death of melody. I never got that. I never came
from that whole school of thinking where it has
to be screaming and brutal, and if it’s not it’s
“gay.” Ever since we’ve had singing, there’ve been
people who are just like, “Oh, they’re going more
pop.” It’s just annoying. We’ve had singing on
the last four albums now, and people keep talking
about it. It’s stupid.Herbert: We’re trying to create music that is musical and listenable. We’re
not a death metal band. We never have been. We have some heavy stuff on
this album, but we’re not going for that. We’re a melodic metal band. That’s
the best way I could describe it, so we’re going to piss some people off.

Do you consider yourselves metalcore?

Martin: I think that word sucks. It’s a dated genre.Herbert: I hate that word with a passion. My problem with it is that it
signifies a trend. It’s a fad. The word metal has been around for over 40
years, starting with Black Sabbath and so forth. It’s a very enduring kind
of music. Hardcore has been around I think since the late-’70s punk era.
That’s also an enduring kind of music, but when you put those two elements
together there’s just something disingenuous about it.

Do you care that what you write affects your fan base?

Herbert: I don’t care one iota. I’m not trying to sound like a dick, but this
is our job. This is what we do. Obviously, we listen to our fans, but at the
end of the day we’re going to make decisions that make us happiest. People
have to accept us for the music that we write. I’m not putting my finger in
the air and looking to see which way the wind blows.Martin: Yeah, but if we write a song that sounds like Paramore, people are
going to be pissed. [Both laugh.]
Where do you guys come from, musically?

Martin: I would see Slash and Richie Sambora and all these guys on MTV
with all these explosions. All the chicks were backstage and everybody was
rich. I was like, “Man, this whole rock-star thing looks pretty awesome.”
[Laughs.] Slash has always been my favorite guitar player. He’s the guy
that I worship right away. I like guitar players who can play, but I also like
guitar players that have feel. I don’t like robot guitar players. I understand
how amazing Buckethead is, but guitar players like that don’t do anything
for me because it sounds like someone throwing
ping-pong balls on the fretboard. [Laughs.]
I started taking lessons when I was 8 years
old. For four years, I just hated it—because I
was in my, “I just want to play sports” phase. My
dad bought me a Les Paul—which was just way
too nice for me to have—when I was 10 years
old. My friend Aaron was like, “You should start
playing guitar again. You got that Les Paul sitting
under your bed. It’s annoying.” [Laughs.] He got
a band together and played one or two covers at
a show called The Top 40 at my high school. The
whole school went to see it. I thought that was
really cool, so I said, “Wow, I wanna play in that
show!” So we started jamming on songs together
and getting whoever we could to play. Then we
started getting into the heavy stuff and our local
hardcore metal bands. Then I started playing
shows with the local bands, and that’s how I met
Phil and the whole music scene in our area.Herbert: For me, it all started in 1988: I started
taking lessons and it was all about metal—
Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer. Primarily, I wanted
to be a rhythm guitar player because that’s what
drove me to really play. I wanted to play riffs. I
didn’t like solos for the first year I was playing
because I thought of [Poison’s] C.C. DeVille and
that high-pitched wankery. Then I remember
being in a high-school cafeteria and this dude was
like, “Check this out!” It was King Diamond’s “A
Mansion In Darkness.” I’m listening to it and the
solo comes and I was like, “Oh my God! Whoever
this guy is, he’s now my favorite guitar player!”

Andy LaRocque.
Herbert: Yeah! His playing just spoke to me.
Yngwie-ish but not so over the top. He plays
to the song, and that’s kind of who I’ve latched
onto for all these years. Also all the guys of that
era, like Marty Friedman, Alex Skolnick, and Jeff
Waters from Annihilator.
Do you guys challenge yourself with other
styles outside of the band?

Martin: No. I don’t practice enough to be versatile.
Oli is in the back of the bus practicing 10
hours a day. I have no attention span for that
at all. But I have been going on YouTube just
to learn songs for fun. There’s a song by John
Mayer called “Edge of Desire” that has a really
cool guitar line through the whole thing.Herbert: I’m really concentrating on jazz. I’m
trying to perfect all my melodic minor scales and
arpeggio fingerings—just trying to get the feel
for it. It’s fun for me, and it’s interesting. I think
it’s opened me up more. I’ve always dabbled, but
I never really went full bore.
Do you play with any other bands?

Herbert: No. I’m doing instructional material
for Rock House. I’d rather focus on that first to
kind of get my points across. When I feel like
the time is right, I’ll do a solo album and clinics
and all that stuff.Martin: The touring that we do is so unhealthy
that there’s no time for anything else. [Laughs.] I’m
not good enough to do a solo record by any means.

Oh please! I really dig your playing.
Martin: Thank you! But I don’t think I have
enough material—I don’t think I could write a
whole record by myself. If there was time to do a
side thing, I would like to play in a regular rock
band. Something less heavy.

What’s your number-one guitar?

Herbert: I play the Ibanez Xiphos 27-fret. I
like the way the neck feels. I think it has a cool
shape. It balances well both standing and sitting,
and I can swing it up on either leg and do
some cool stuff.Martin: I just got a PRS Custom 22, which is
the most awesome guitar. It’s my favorite guitar
that I’ve ever touched in my entire life.

What do you have on the floor?

Herbert: All I have is a Maxon OD808
Overdrive, Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor, Boss
DD-5 Digital Delay, and a tuner. I’m not really
a gear guy.Martin: I use a Maxon OD-9 Overdrive and a
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor, but I’m a complete
moron—I can barely hook my own stuff up. Take
the guitar tech away from us and we’re screwed.

How about amps?

Herbert: I use a Peavey 5150 II head with Mesa/
Boogie 4x12 cabs. I think it’s a fantastic amp. I’ll
tell you what, though, I would kill for a block
letter one—the first one. I think those are the
best. That’s what I recorded the album with.
When you talk about this era of metal, that’s the
head that’s most used. You don’t see Marshalls
as much as you used to. When we were on tour
with As I Lay Dying and Iced Earth, we all used
the same exact head. Maybe it was the EVH III
in some cases, but it’s the same thing, basically.Martin: The very first one is the best-sounding
head I’ve heard in my entire life. I’m using
the Peavey 6505 head with Mesa/Boogie cabs
[Editor’s note: Peavey renamed the 5150 amp the
6505 after Edward Van Halen severed his relationship
with the company]. Every time we try something
else, it just doesn’t work for us.

Who did the talk box solo in “Won’t Go
Quietly”?
Herbert: That’s Mike’s solo. He had gotten a talk
box as a gift from a friend. I did my solo in the
middle, and we were trying to think of what to
do with the end part. We were like, “Dude, take
a solo—talk box!” I don’t know if I was the one
who said it, but it was kinda like we needed to
use it on the record somehow.Martin: I just wanted to add some feel—I wasn’t
trying to reinvent rock guitar! [Laughs.] I’d never
even played through one before, but it was a lot
of fun. I’m psyched we put it on there. I think
it’s a cool old-school effect to have in a modern
metal band.Herbert: Some people are going to hear that and
say, “That’s cool.” Other people are going to go,
“What the hell is this!? I don’t like this in my
metal!” I think it’s tasty.
Oli Herbert's
GearboxGuitars
Ibanez Xiphos 27-fret guitar,
Ibanez S2170, Ibanez S1625,
Takamine acoustic