Artie said that when you've been on the air for that long, you should have the ability to argue that he's been on the air for 40 years and he's really not a racist. Imus doesn't even have that as an excuse. Howard said that he could never think in his mind that those girls on the basketball team are ''nappy headed hos'' like Imus called them. He said Imus really screwed up by wearing that cowboy hat that he's been wearing for years now. That gives people a warning that he's a redneck.

It's annoying to read summaries of the Howard Stern show! You have to hear it. But anyway, I think Howard was making an argument like one I made about Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic comments. Mel was drunk, and some people said that meant we should brush off what he said. But my position was that the ideas have to be in your head. Drink lowers you inhibitions, so that things flow out that you held back when you had your sober caution intact.

Now, Imus wasn't drunk, but he was doing ad lib comedy. How can you do that but to let go of the inhibitions that allow ordinary people to function in social situations? He's got to take that risk to give a comic performance. But what comes out must in some way be in there. He's funny -- when he is -- because he's got a mix of interesting things in his head, some of which are the bad and unkind thoughts that may make us laugh because they are things that we hold in too.

We are all flawed, and we do need our comedians. We should talk back and express outrage about some things, but when is the censuring too much? How long must a man abase himself and apologize? How much do we want to see a man grovel?

And whose sins has Don Imus been chosen to die for? What is going on here? The reaction seems so disproportionate to the offense...

I mean... go read this and then come back and tell me Imus is a capital offender. He's just a jerk! He should apologize and make amends to those basketball gazelles, sure, but why is he, of his whole populous class of offenders, getting his throat cut on the altar? And Jesse Jackson getting all high and mighty about it, that's funny!

The selective sanctimony of our society is stupefying....

[T]he thing that maybe freaked me out about it the most: I heard someone, I think Tucker Carlson, say solemnly, in almost hushed tones, "Barack Obama said he should be fired," as if that had been the deciding factor, the nod that dropped the blade. Who is Barack Obama all of a sudden? God? King Solomon? Emperor Nero?

Racism and sanctimony. Is there some way to get them to stop feeding off each other?

"Racism and sanctimony. Is there some way to get them to stop feeding off each other?"

Good point, a thoughtful question. Are racists sanctimonious too? I think so, David Duke and his ilk wrap their hatred in "protecting the white race" gibberish. They present themselves as saviors rather than persecutors.

Are the anti-racism professionals any different? On the face of it, there is some moral superiority to their position as racism is indeed abhorent and bad for our culture. But when you make a living off of "fighting racism," how do you get a raise? I think you get a raise by finding more racism.

And then there is the trend for the "anti-racists" to be, in fact, racist or anti-semitic.

So I think they are all sanctimonious. The best response would have been for the Rutgers team to hold a brief press conference, say they disagree with Imus, think he is a putz for what he said, and look forward to winning a national championship next year.

They come out looking like the winners they obviously are, he comes out looking like somebody who made a stupid, racist comment.

Those ladies do not need the anti-racist professionals to do anything for them. They are obviously quite competent at taking care of themselves.

I’m calling for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, the president and vice president of Black America, to step down. Their leadership is stale. Their ideas are outdated. And they don’t give a damn about us.

- Jason Whitlock, Sports Columnist for the Kansas City Star and aol.com, who happens to be black (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Frankly, we are fast becoming the epitome of a Jerry Springer society. It seems to have become more important to have an audience and notoriety when confronting conflict than it is to attain resolve and mutual respect. That model seems to serve the needs of the exploited and those who seek to exploit; reinforcing all that relegates objectivity to the outhouse while making the frailty and imperfection of the human condition a spectacle that harkens back to the Coliseum.

This situation isn’t and shouldn’t be about whether liberals or conservatives, this race or that race, hip hop or honky-tonk, one group or another, are more offensive and therefore more responsible for all that is wrong with America. I am not capable of judging the whole of Don Imus nor am I capable of crafting a recipe to fix all of America…and neither are the countless pundits and partisans who have sought to frame it so.

I’m not a religious person…but I often find kinship with the imagery surrounding the portrayal of one called Jesus and his teachings of understanding and forgiveness. For all the banter I hear about the Bible and Christian values, it certainly seems to me that we are fast abandoning what many view as the sacred “tablets” in favor of the sacrosanct tabloids. If I’m right, all I can say is heaven help us.

Read more about the dynamics that lead a situation to become larger than the sum of its parts…here:

And then there is the trend for the "anti-racists" to be, in fact, racist or anti-semitic.

True; Jackson and Sharpton have no credibility to comment on Imus.

But I don't see that he's being sacrificed. He's made a good living over the years, and plenty of pundits and players have increased their haul by appearing on his show and playing the "I'm a regular guy" game. The very thing that has him in trouble now has made him, and his inner circle, a big pile of dough over the years. It's not like he made a big mistake; he's been saying stuff just as bad as this remark, week after week. That's the risk he's taken, and he's never apologized for it before. So some tipping point occurs, and the market turns on him. He brought it on himself. I'm not up in arms over what he said, nor am I joining any "Save Imus!" movement.

"Racism and sanctimony. Is there some way to get them to stop feeding off each other?" No, in part because at their core they share the conviction that "I am inherently better than you;" in part because the racial divides in American society are still raw despite all the progress; and in part because playing the race card can be so useful to various players in many different contexts. Note, too, that there is an inverse relationship at work here: as racism recedes as a major social problem, the sanctimony increases dramatically.

My stand from the start has been for Imus to lose the TV show, and continue on radio. Unfortunately, racist bile is a big part of right-wing radio but you can easily choose to disregard listening to those stations or shows. His show on MSNBC is another story entirely in that it is a mainstream news channel supposedly for mainstream viewing. Let him continue playing in the sewer with the rest of the vermin (Savage, Limbaugh, Beck).

And of course Sharpton is sanctimonious without a doubt. But is he anymore sanctimonious than those who frequently claim that Democrats are "for defeat" or "for surrender" in Iraq?

C'mon, I know Imus isn't right-wing which makes him politically an outliers in the filth that his mainly right-wing competitors spew. I just mean the sewer where talk of monkey chants, halfricans, ragheads is always on the platter, which is generally right-wing. That's the fact, jack (parodying a hypothetical shadycharacter quote).

And shadycharacter: What are you 92? Chevy Chase jokes went out with the Reagan Administration. You should really update your pop culture references, maybe with something more current like the first season of Beavis and Butthead.

The right target is condescending whites in the media who laud garbage hip hop as "authentic black culture" like black people are these exotic creatures to be seen in a zoo. The very same people who are piling on Imus right now (that is when they are not on his show kissing his ass pushing their books) thought it was great that the song "Its Hard Out There For A Pimp" was nominated for an Oscar.

Yeah portraying women as bitches and whores is disgusting and wrong. When Black rappers do it white elites and media types sit around point and say "oh look at the dangerous negro expressing his authentic culture and the world around him and subverting our racist bourgeoisie standards of conduct". When Imus does it they all have a fainting fit at how anyone could be so cruel and horrible. The hypocrisy and bullshit over this thing is stacking up pretty quick.

Richard Dolan said... "Racism and sanctimony. Is there some way to get them to stop feeding off each other?" No, in part because at their core they share the conviction that "I am inherently better than you..."

The politicians are milking it for all that it's worth. It's a Crisis!Victimology...

Hillary is feeling their pain...and suddenly, (even though Imus voted for John Kerry, Imus is an evil rat-like "conservative")(we all know that "Conservatives are like the Jews in Germany in the late 1930's)

Imus didn't make racist remarks, his mistake was to allow himself to be beholden to racists. Imus has called Vice President Cheney many mean things, but Cheney appeared on the program, gave Imus a package of pork chops (Imus's pet name for Cheney). That is class.

His show on MSNBC is another story entirely in that it is a mainstream news channel supposedly for mainstream viewing. Let him continue playing in the sewer with the rest of the vermin (Savage, Limbaugh, Beck).

How is MSNBC mainstream but not CBS radio? Because it's TeeVee (cable) but not radio?

Far more people listen to Imus on radio (millions*) than watched him on TV (something like 350,000, though it was more earlier this week, of course).

Think about that for a minute.

(*I'm having a hard time getting an exact figure, especially in an apples-to-apples comparison, that is, weekly to weekly, or daily to daily. [When stories like this break, I miss the days when I had access to detailed Arbitron and Nielsen reports via an employer!] One source today puts the radio listeners at 10 million, but doesn't specify per what. Others have a far lower figure, but it's still in millions, and still much more than the video broadcast.)

You knew something was up early in the day. As soon as I told executives at MSNBC that I was going to write about the “60 Minutes” piece, which was already in pretty wide circulation, they began acting very weird. We’ll get back to you, they said.

In a “60 Minutes” interview with Don Imus broadcast in July 1998, Mike Wallace said of the “Imus in the Morning” program, “It’s dirty and sometimes racist.”Mr. Imus then said: “Give me an example. Give me one example of one racist incident.”To which Mr. Wallace replied, “You told Tom Anderson, the producer, in your car, coming home, that Bernard McGuirk is there to do nigger jokes.”

Mr. Imus said, “Well, I’ve nev — I never use that word.”Mr. Wallace then turned to Mr. Anderson, his producer. “Tom,” he said.“I’m right here,” said Mr. Anderson.Mr. Imus then said to Mr. Anderson, “Did I use that word?”Mr. Anderson said, “I recall you using that word.”“Oh, O.K.,” said Mr. Imus. “Well, then I used that word. But I mean — of course, that was an off-the-record conversation. But ——”“The hell it was,” said Mr. Wallace.

The transcript was pure poison. A source very close to Don Imus told me last night, “They did not want to wait for your piece to come out.”For MSNBC, Mr. Imus’s “nappy-headed ho’s” comment about the Rutgers women’s basketball team was bad enough. Putting the word “nigger” into the so-called I-man’s mouth was beyond the pale.

Imus has a long history of making these kinds of comments. His ranch foundation or whatever is coming under scrutiny. To deflect this to what Sharpton or Jackson said years ago is ridiculous. To blame this on rappers or hiphop is also ridiculous. Imus did not make his comment about a political or media figure, he made it about innocent girls playing basketball and he deserves to suffer for it.

Mark Shea tells us what this mass media hype is about, seehttp://markshea.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html#8740571109640749596

All this hype is another example of a culture of hate where we call anybody who disagrees with our 'facts' must be a liar. Not wrong, but a liar. It has been six years of this nonsense with no end in sight.

Fritz said... "Imus didn't make racist remarks, his mistake was to allow himself to be beholden to racists. Imus has called Vice President Cheney many mean things, but Cheney appeared on the program, gave Imus a package of pork chops (Imus's pet name for Cheney). That is class."

Including the word "class" in the same comment as the name "Cheney" is truly classless. (Do you read newspapers or books?)

jim said..."The airwaves belong to the people. Imus should fire MSNBC for speech suppression and take over their frequencies."

Are we to assume, that if a radio hack broadcast an "emergency" message that was totally false...resulting in actions that lead to deaths...that would be okay with you...because "the airwaves belong to the people?"

Invisible Man, before you ask: No, I'm not 92. But not only do I get cultural references to SNL & Ackroyd's character, I can also be spontaneously moved to think of one of the most famous broadcasts ever, itself a cultural event and reference, from 1938.

Other than it is not a racist comment, how is this one whit less an ad hominem attack than what Imus said?

The problem with Imus's statements weren't that they were ad hominem attacks, hell he does about 50 of those a show. The problem was that they were racist and misogynistic ad hominem attacks on innocent victims. I'm sure that a guy like Limbaugh who obviously doesn't hesitate to call people like my niece some made up slur like "hafrican", shouldn't be to upset with me calling him vermin.

Luckyoldson said...Well, if that is indeed the case, you're one hell of a guy...and you might want to run it by you mother, wife and sister...I'm sure they would be as proud as punch.

No, it's because I'm a mature man.

Furthermore, I didn't debase myself by marrying a woman who would take pride in a husband who plays the victim over silly verbal insults.

My wife, mother, sisters and oldest daughter would agree with my stance. They are strong women who don't turn into whiny, crying victims because someone flung a verbal insult at them.

(I haven't asked my 19 year old daughter yet what her response would be, but I'm pretty sure it would be along the lines of "Fuck you and the horse you road in on." and leave it at that. You see, my daughter doesn't base her self-worth on what other people think.)

luckyoldson: Why should anyone defend their sister or mother from verbal abuse? Mine are more than capable of taking care of themselves. If someone insults my daughter, who's barely a teen, I'd counsel her on how to reply, but why coddle females? She's perfectly capable of ignoring idiots. As if someone calling her a ho is someone to listen to.

Today Welles' broadcast would get him thrown in jail. See what happened in Boston in the Aqua Teen incident. Welles would leave the studio in cuffs.

If nigger (or nigga) and ho are such abhorrent words, then it's not OK for anyone to use them. Black or white. You're not reclaiming it or empowering yourself. Words don't have different meanings according to the speaker's race. Offensive is offensive no matter whose mouth it comes out of.

MadisonMan said..."Why should anyone defend their sister or mother from verbal abuse? Mine are more than capable of taking care of themselves. "

Well, that's wonderful, and I'm glad you have a family that doesn't really care what people say about their loved ones...because they're all "capable of taking care of themselves." (I don't know exactly what that means, but it's YOUR family.)

In my family, if someone insulted my mother, sister or wife, the men were expected to stand up for them.

Joe,It's nice to know you're such a "mature" man, but I'm telling you this about ME: If I'm standing in the same room or even hear that someone has referred to my mother, wife or sister as "ho" they can expect a timely reaction...and I'm not talking about a stern warning not to do it again.

To each their own, and if you think it's "mature" to allow an insult like that to pass without an immediate response, that's your right.

LOS: we all stand in awe of your fearless and intrepid gallantry so well expressed in your own words on the world wide web on a anonymous forum--you one bad mutha and you have impressed the bejezus out of us.

Lucky, you weren't standing in the same room. We're talking about a comment on THE RADIO. Do you even grasp that concept.

And, by the way, I don't hang around people who even use the word "ho." If someone called may wife that in my presence, it would be so ludicrous I'd laugh at him.

Your "I'll beat the shit of them" is machismo bullshit. It's also rather misogynistic. Are you seriously telling me your wife/mother/sister are timid and lack confidence.

You know what, I'll bet a thousand bucks that if you were in a room and someone called your wife a "ho" and you made sure it never happened again, you wife would call you an asshole. She'd probably say "why are you always getting in fights on my behalf, I'm more than capable of taking care of myself."

Finally, there is a concept called "turning the other cheek". Radical, I know, I mean, someone might even create a religion on it or something.

I stand by my statement; anyone who picks fights because of verbal insults is and immature asshole.

The over-reaction to Imus is the embodiment of the progressive boot on the American neck. The hip hop toughs crumbles to tears when lyrics to rap videos are spoken by a white man. Like the British sailor who cried himself to sleep for being called "Mr. Bean", one wonders how these child-victims make it through the day.

Or how they can explain that is wasn't the words per se, but who said them that mattered. And indeed it is true. White males cannot discuss race or gender. Ever, well, except in self-abnegation.

And Sharpton, the model of class hatred, a man for whom lying is lucrative and easy, who foments discord between the races with remarkable ease and a fox's grin. That Sharpton is the man from whom to beg forgiveness is contradictory and repugnant, yet seemingly no problem to the left.

And Obama calls for Imus to be fired, Obama now apparently Pope before he is President.

Imus is a liberal and an idiot (but I repeat myself ....joke, joke). So I don't have much love lost for the man, yet I do not hate him for saying something stupid. At least Imus knows that none of his charity work, and none of his support for the right people, none of his works brought him salvation.

Because hell, he was never 'one of them', and just wasn't aware of it. So he was pushed off the bus as soon as he broke a single rule.

I'm merely telling you that I was raised to defend women from assholes who confront them with physical or verbal threats and slurs.

Don't go changing the subject, Lucky. If someone physically threatens my family, I have no problem dropping them on the spot with a bullet.

If someone were to verbal insults any woman in my presence with the word "ho" or something comparable, I'd speak up and ask for an apology. But what I wouldn't do is make a huge scene nor would I threaten them with physical violence as you've clearly suggested you would do.

Above all, the women in my life wouldn't turn into whimpering, pathetic, victims over the incident. They certainly wouldn't go on television complaining about how their psyche has now been damaged, perhaps beyond repair.

(And, yes, I've known people like you. So have my wife, mother, sisters and daughters. They all really despise your type.)

Joe,I asked you what you would do if someone called you mother, wife or sister a "ho" and you said you'd "laugh it off."

That's your right, but I find it to be rather gutless. (And you might run this premise by your father...it would be interesting to hear what he thinks about your supposed reaction to HIS wife being called a "ho.")

And don't give me that bullshit that you mother,wife and sister "despise" people "like" me. First of all you don't know me, and we're only discussing the circumstance of someone insulting our mother, wife or sister.

That's your right, but I find it to be rather gutless. (And you might run this premise by your father...it would be interesting to hear what he thinks about your supposed reaction to HIS wife being called a "ho.")

My father do the same. See, he's not just mature but a Christian who actually does forgive and turn the other cheek. I was raised to confront words with words, not physical violence and certainly not with counter threats or acting the victim.

you don't know me

You've made your stance very clear. Your direct female relatives are incapable of surviving being called a "ho". Apparently it will cause a mental breakdown and so you must defend their honor. It's all machismo bullshit.

As usual, this isn't about the women, it's about you being afraid of being perceived as a coward. A real man really does know when to walk away from a fight.

If I were being physically threatened, I'd hope my husband would jump to my defense--primarily because I'm only 5'1 inches tall, whereas he's 6-feet, and much stronger.

But if someone called me a "ho"? Jeez, I hope he'd stop and see what I have to say, regardless of how he was raised back in the day. (OK, I just asked; he says he would--and I must say, he got a gleam in his eye at the idea someone would be that dumb.) But then, he knows I was raised to stand up for myself, with very explicit coaching from my dad.

Not surprising that the US major media's focus in l'affaire Imus (ee-moose), as ever is . . . itself! That and promoting the pestilential "cultural" (now an omnibus term) sewage exuding its mephitic vapours that goes by the oxymoronic term "pop culture". Kierkegaard says somewhere that if his daughter were seduced he could easily forgive that, but if his son became a journalist, he'd disown him forever. . . .

This is exactly what I said: "In my family, if someone insulted my mother, sister or wife, the men were expected to stand up for them."

This is in no way, shape or form a "juvenile, male member measuring exercise," it was a straight forward question regarding what YOU would do if someone insulted your mother, wife sister...or for that matter ANY women, by calling them a whore...period.

And, if I understand you correctly, you would all merely "laugh it off" because that's the "mature" thing to do.

And by the way...what would you "mature" men do if someone called your daughter a whore? Yuk it up, maybe have a few beers with the offending party? Tell them your wife and mother are whores, too?(Or, hey, just grab her hand and walk away as fast as you can...she'll remember that for quite a while.)

Personally, if someone calls my mother, wife or sister a whore I would do what I can to defend their honor, whether it be via a verbal or physical confrontation...and if you think I'm some kind of macho fool for doing so...you're out of your minds...under most circumstances, I'd do it even if I didn't know the women.

It does make me wonder (if you are indeed men)...where the hell you grew up...and who raised you? Unless of course, you're saying that your father would merely laugh off someone calling your mother a whore. (Why not pose the question to dad...see what he would do.)

I said it before and will say it again: If you merely "turn the other cheek"..."laugh it off" or ignore someone calling your mother,wife or sister a whore you may consider yourself "mature"...but most men I've ever known would consider you nothing less more than gutless.

Ann, you said that "the ideas have to be in your head." This is an interesting point, but I can't tell if you think it is bad to have such ideas in your head. Do the thoughts in your head really matter, if you truly make an effort to treat each individual you meet, based on his or her own merits?

I live in a neighborhood that "looks like America". There are rich, poor, and middle-class; blacks, whites, latinos, Asians, and native Americans. Is it "wrong" for me to feel intimidated, when I go into the corner store, if a group of youths dressed in "gangsta" clothes are standing around the door? Are my fears more or less wrong if the youths are white, or black, or Asian? Is it "racist" for me to observe that black men frequently cross the street against the light, or to wonder, as they stroll slowly in front of my car, if they are trying to antagonize me because I am white?

Racial and cultural differences are real, and need to be discussed freely. The reasons for continued widespread underperformance of certain racial and ethnic groups in America should be researched and addressed in a climate free from accusations of "racism."

I don't excuse Imus' obnoxious comments at all. I just think that the consequences he is suffering are too harsh. If I had to speak off the cuff for hundreds of hours every year I would probably have to stifle a lot of offensive impulses.

...and Lucky, we get it. You will defend your womenfolk's honor by being a manly man! All the other commenters are a bunch of pansies for not instantly reacting to insults, with righteous anger and violence! We stand in awe of your manly manliness!

I've about had it with the comparisons of Imus with Snoop Dogg or other rappers. It's a stupid comparison.

There are stickers on Snoop Dogg's albums, and all the other albums like his, warning of explicit lyrics. If anyone bought a hip-hop album and was expecting not to hear all about the constant sex with bitches and hos, then they were misinformed. I doubt it's a mistake made very often.

Imus, on the other hand, goes out over the public airwaves and apparently has millions of listeners. No one who watched or heard his show that day was expecting an obscene Snoop Dogg-style rap about hos. This guy is a news personality, primarily known as an interviewer. Most of his listeners tune in to hear the humorous (allegedly) insider chit-chat with the likes of David Gregory.

Objecting to the fact that Imus used his public radio/TV platform to spew his racist bilge isn't the same thing as saying he doesn't have the right to spew racist bilge. It just means he doesn't have the right to spew racist bilge on public airwaves.

If Imus wants to make a CD featuring his favorite racist taunts, if someone will pay for it, and if he slaps a sticker on it, he's free to do it.

Is Luckyoldson suggesting that all the men in America should go beat up Imus? Or just the basketball team members' boyfriends and fathers? His point isn't really clear, and its relevance escapes me. But the idea of Imus not being able to take a step without some guy challenging him to a fistfight is pretty funny to imagine. "How dare you, sir!" "Oh, no, not again!"

Omeeeha-Rogie-Johnny,Look, just because you weasels are can't come up with a rational or logical excuse for not being able to understand why someone would defend a woman, after being called a whore...that's your problem, not mine. (And no, Johnny, your comment regarding my suggesting men "beat up Imus" has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion or lack thereof. It's just another way of saying you don't have the balls to do what's right.)

And, based on your comments...I have to assume, if and when the shit breaks out, your buddies don't put much faith in any help coming from your direction. (That is, if you girls have ever been in that kind of situation.)

Those who include Imus on some "honor" "hit" list might add the "white feather" club of superannuated hipster draft dodgers and cowards of the Vietnam era. . . . Their dereliction is far worse than Imus's, though he's certainly a fool, sans doute. . . . Might get a bit of political diversity in colleges and universities for the first time in circa forty years. . . .

"Were you never taught "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me?" (Yes, names can be hurtful, but mature, civilized, people get over it.)"

I agree wholeheartedly, and it's too bad that the whole PC movement has turned this idea on its side. Now, the prevailing wisdom is more like "If you hurt me with words, I'll break your bones with sticks and stones." (Some of said stones may occasionally be thrown by lawyers.)