HAYDEN Good morning ROSE ░░░░░░░░ let s look at ░░░░░░░░ FBI story and make ░░░░░░░░ we understand exactly what ░░░░░░░░ think You have on ░░░░░░░░ one hand the FBI ░░░░░░░░ we are be able ░░░░░░░░ look at this HAYDEN ░░░░░░░░ ROSE and we need ░░░░░░░░ to help us do ░░░░░░░░ HAYDEN Right ROSE And ░░░░░░░░ re only asking you ░░░░░░░░ do it one time ░░░░░░░░ Right ROSE Apple says ░░░░░░░░ is no such thing ░░░░░░░░ one time It ll ░░░░░░░░ that we are opening ░░░░░░░░ privacy it would be ░░░░░░░░ the privacy of all ░░░░░░░░ people who buy iPhones ░░░░░░░░ does Michael Hayden say ░░░░░░░░ Charlie this is a ░░░░░░░░ play for the theme ░░░░░░░░ the book which I ░░░░░░░░ to describe as you ░░░░░░░░ these are always tough ░░░░░░░░ and this is not ░░░░░░░░ the forces of light ░░░░░░░░ the force of darkness ░░░░░░░░ is about balancing two ░░░░░░░░ two things we want ░░░░░░░░ security and privacy liberty ░░░░░░░░ safety And so now ░░░░░░░░ acting out in this ░░░░░░░░ sphere I think I ░░░░░░░░ Apple is right in ░░░░░░░░ of opposing universal backdoors ░░░░░░░░ make it easier for ░░░░░░░░ or any government to ░░░░░░░░ into encrypted communications But ░░░░░░░░ am ROSE But stop ░░░░░░░░ Is that what the ░░░░░░░░ is asking them HAYDEN ░░░░░░░░ No But I am ░░░░░░░░ convinced that what the ░░░░░░░░ is asking Apple to ░░░░░░░░ in San Bernardino is ░░░░░░░░ And I think the ░░░░░░░░ of proof is on ░░░░░░░░ to show that there ░░░░░░░░ an inevitable slippery slope ░░░░░░░░ this very targeted focused ░░░░░░░░ from the bureau a ░░░░░░░░ slope from that to ░░░░░░░░ thing over here And ░░░░░░░░ look as you said ░░░░░░░░ ran NSA backdoors are ░░░░░░░░ If they are in ░░░░░░░░ good security services around ░░░░░░░░ world are going to ░░░░░░░░ that and take advantage ░░░░░░░░ that ROSE You mean ░░░░░░░░ indecipherable HAYDEN Yeah the ░░░░░░░░ who are actually wish ░░░░░░░░ no good KING But ░░░░░░░░ also say in the ░░░░░░░░ when it comes to ░░░░░░░░ security and protecting our ░░░░░░░░ and our lives sometimes ░░░░░░░░ have to go right ░░░░░░░░ the edge and do ░░░░░░░░ it takes HAYDEN That ░░░░░░░░ right KING So is ░░░░░░░░ a bit of a ░░░░░░░░ to say well I ░░░░░░░░ t totally oppose that ░░░░░░░░ m not that I ░░░░░░░░ with a backdoor Do ░░░░░░░░ see what I mean ░░░░░░░░ s you crosstalk HAYDEN ░░░░░░░░ No Gayle I get ░░░░░░░░ and that s why ░░░░░░░░ said this is a ░░░░░░░░ gray area KING Yeah ░░░░░░░░ These are never easy ░░░░░░░░ but there are lines ░░░░░░░░ do say playing to ░░░░░░░░ edge KING Yeah HAYDEN ░░░░░░░░ you should not go ░░░░░░░░ a certain point And ░░░░░░░░ judgment in this particular ░░░░░░░░ is that universal backdoors ░░░░░░░░ it may facilitate American ░░░░░░░░ enforcement for very good ░░░░░░░░ on balance on balance ░░░░░░░░ are an overall negative ░░░░░░░░ American security not just ░░░░░░░░ privacy.”