Rujukan :
Quran 11:114 "Dan lakukanlah solat pada dua tepi siang, dan awal malam...."
Quran 11:114 Establish
worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night.
Lo! good deeds annul ill-deeds. This is reminder for the mindful."

Chapter 10 : THE ONE LED IN PRAYER IS FORBIDDEN TO RECITE LOUDLY BEHIND THE imam

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Book 4, Number 0783:

lmrin b. Husain reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace beupon him) led us In Zuhr or 'Asr prayer (noon or the afternoon prayer). (On concluding it) he said: Who recited behind me (the verses): Sabbih Isma Rabbik al-a'la (Glorify the name of thy Lord, the Most High)?There upon a person said: It was I, but I in- tended nothing but goodness.I felt that some one of you was disputing with me in it (or he was taking out from my tongue what I was reciting), said the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him).

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Book 4, Number 0784:

'Imran b. Husain reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed the Zuhr prayer and a person recited Sabbih Isma Rabbik al-a'la (Glorify the name of thy Lord, the Most High) behind him.When he (the Holy Pro- phet) concluded the prayer he said: Who amongst you recited (the above-mentioned verse) or who amongst you was the reciter?A person said: It was I. Upon this he (the Holy Prophet) observed: I thought as if someone amongst you was disputing with me (in what I was reciting).

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Book 4, Number 0785:

This hadith has been narrated by Qatada with the same chain of transmitters that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed Zuhr prayer and said: I felt that someone amongst you was disputing with me (in what I was reciting).

Chapter 28 : MODERATION BETWEEN LOUD AND LOW RECITATION IN JAHRI PRAYER, WHEN THERE IS A FEAR OF TURMOIL IN RECITING LOUDLY

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Book 4, Number 0897:

Ibn 'Abbas reported: The word of (Allah) Great and Glorious: 'And utter not thy prayer loudly, nor be low in it" (xvii. 110) was revealed as the Messenger of Allah (may peace beupon him) was hiding himself in Mecca. When he led his Companions in prayer he raised his voice (while reciting the) Qur'an. And when the polytheists heard that, they reviled the Qur'an and Him Who revealed it and him who brought it. Upon this Allah, the Exalted, said to His Prophet (may peace be upon him): Utter not thy prayer so loudly that the polytheists may hear thy recitation and (recite it) not so low that it may be inaudible to your Companions. Make them hear the Qur'an, but do not recite it loudly and seek a (middle) way between these. Recite between loud and low tone.

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Book 4, Number 0898:

'A'isha reported that so far as these words of (Allah) Glorious and High are concerned: "And utter not thy prayer loudly, not be low in it" (xvii. 110) relate to supplication (du'a').

Sulaiman b. Buraida narrated it on the authority of his father that a person asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the time of prayer. Upon this he said: Pray with us these two, meaning two days. When the sun passed the meridian. he gave command to Bilal who uttered the call to prayer. then lie commanded him and pronounced Iqama for noon prayer (Then at the tine of the afternoon prayer) he again commanded and Iqama for the afternoon prayer was pronounced when the sun was high, white and clear. He then commanded and Iqama for the evening prayer was pronounced, when the sun had set. He then commanded him and the Iqama for the night prayer was pronounced When the twilight had disappeared. He then commanded him and the Iqama for the morning prayer was pronounced, when the dawn had appeared. When it was the next day, he commanded him to delay the noon prayer till the extreme heat had passed and he did so, and he allowed it to be delayed till the extreme heat had passed. He observed the afternoon prayer when the sun was high, delaying it beyond the time he had previously observed it. He observed the evening prayer before the twilight had vanished; he observed the night prayer when a third of the night had passed; and he observed the dawn prayer when there was clear daylight. He (the Holy Prophet) then said: Where is the man who inquired about the time of prayer? He (the inquirer) said: Messenger of Allah I here I am. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The time for your prayer is within the limits of what you have seen.

Pak Yeh i hope those hadith i send to you will answer your question with regard the time of prayers.

Pak Yehs reply:All the hadith you gave contradict the Quran.!How can man's/Bukhari Muslim's words contradict Allah's words.???Are you rejecting the Quran verses.???If that is so, then your god is Bukhari Muslim.!!!You have not answered the 3 questions you need to answer before you die.The Malay translation is as follows,1)If Allah/Quran11:114 says 3solats per day,but Bukhari Muslim/Hadis says 5 solats a day, who do you follow as your god.???2) If Allah/Quran17:110 says solats should not be silent,but Bukhari Muslim/Hadis says,Zuhur,Asar,3rd and 4th rakaat solats are silent, who do you follow as your god.???3) If you reject the Quran verses/Allah in favour of Bukhari Muslim,wouldn't that make you a kafir and a murtad.???Please answer the questions and stop twisting and turning like a snake, using fake hadis that contradicts Allah and the Quran.

Prayer is the soul of religion. Where there is no prayer , there can be no purification of the soul. The non-praying man is rightly considered to be a soulless man. Take prayer out of the world, and it is all over with religion because it is with prayer that man has the consciousness of God and selfless love for humanity and inner sense of piety.Prayer is, therefore, the first, the highest, and the most solemn phenomenon and manifestation of religion.

The way in which prayer is offered and the words which are recited in it explain the true nature of religion of which it is the expression of man's contact with the Lord.

Prayer in Islam gives in a nutshell the teachings of Islam. The very first thing which comes into prominence in Islamic prayer is that it is accompanied by bodily movements. It implies that Islam lifts not only the soul to the spiritual height, but also illuminates the body of man with the light of God-consciousness.It aims at purifying both body and soul, for it finds no cleavage between them.Islam does not regard body and soul as two different entities opposed to each other, or body as the prison of the soul from which It yearns to secure freedom in order to soar to heavenly heights. "The soul is an organ of the body which exploits it for physiological purposes, or body is an instrument of the soul" (Iqbal, Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam, p 105), and thus both need spiritual enlightenment.

Secondly, Islamic prayer does not aim at such a spiritual contact with God in which the world and self are absolutely denied, in which human personality is dissolved, disappears and is absorbed in the Infinite Lord.Islam does not favour such a meditation and absorption in which man ceases to be conscious of his own self and feels himself to be perfectly identified with the Infinite, and claims in a mood of ecstasy: My "I" has become God, or rather he is God. Islam wants to inculcate the consciousness of the indwelling of the light of God in body and soul but does allow him to transport himself in the realm of lnfinity. It impresses upon his mind that he is the humble servant of the Great and Glorious Lord and his spiritual development and religious piety lies in sincere and willing obedience to Allah.The very first step towards the achievement of this objective is that man should have a clear consciousness of his own finiteness and Infiniteness of the Lord, and clearly visualise and feel that he is created as a human being by the Creator and Master of the universe, and he cannot, therefore, become demi-god or god.His success lies in proving himself by his outlook and behaviour that he is the true and loyal servant of his Great Master.Islamic prayer is, therefore, the symbol of humble reverence before the Majesty of the Glorious Lord.

Ibn Shibab reported: Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz one day deferred the prayer. 'Urwa b. Zubair came to him and informed him that one day as Mughira b. Shu'ba was in Kufa (as its governor), he deferred the prayer, Abu Mas'ud al-Ansari came to him and said: What is this, O Mughira? Did you know that it was Gabriel who came and said prayer and (then) the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said the prayer (along with him), then (Gabriel) prayed and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) also prayed, then (Gabriel) prayed and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) also prayed, then (Gabriel) prayed and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) prayed (along with him). then Gabriel prayed and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) also prayed (along with him) and then said: This is how I have been ordered to do. 'Umar (b. 'Abd al-'Aziz) said. O 'Urwa be mindful of what you are saying that Gabriel (peace be upon him) taught the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) the times of prayer. Upon this 'Urwa said: This is how Bashir b. Abu Mas'ud narrated on the authority of his father and (also said): 'A'isha?, the wife of the Prophet (may peace be upon him). narrated it to me that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to say the afternoon prayer, when the light of the sun was there in her apartment before it went out (of it).

Sahîh al-Bukhârî Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:Narrated ‘Amru bin Maimun: "During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them."

These Syiah/Sunni Hadis Muslims dont have a shred of Quran evidence to disprove Pak Yeh's Quran evidence.They keep on giving Hadis evidence is not God's words.Hadis is alledged prophets words, by people who lived 300 years after the death of prophet Mohamad s.a.w.

It is evident that Muslims have left the Quran in favor of Hadis.

This is what had happened even during prophet Mohamad's time.Quran 25:30 "And the messenger saith: O my Lord! Lo! mine own folk make this Qur'an of no account(unused)."

Same problem then, Same problem now.

May Allah protect us from people who worship Bukhari Muslim more than they worship Allah, by heeding the hadis and not heeding the Quran.

Anonymous said...reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: He who misses the afternoon prayer, it is as though he has been deprived of his family and his property.

Pak Yeh's reply:Give me a Quran verse to pray Zuhur and Asar and I will believe you.Why would you listen to Bukhari Muslim when Allah did not say to pray Zuhur and Asar.???Bukhari Muslim is your god,is it.???

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu..Thank you very much for your letter as usual, and thank you very much for having confidence on me.Regarding your question about the Qur’anic verse which concludes five times daily prayers..,I say that there is no single Qur’anic verse which has mentioned all five times daily prayers in one place. We have to use the general thematic methodology in the Holy Qur’an. However, there are several Qur’anic verses in different chapters have mentioned all five time daily prayers. The following verses are the clear prove and strong evidence for our five time daily prayers.Also the authentic pratical Sunnah of prophet Muhammed peace be upon him as shown and taught us that we should pray five times a day, not like some Islamic deviated fractions which refuse five times prayer.The following verses are to be taken seriousely:1- The almighty Allah swt in tha chapter Taha, verse 130, says:( فَاصْبِرْ عَلَىٰ مَا يَقُولُونَ وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا ۖ وَمِنْ آنَاءِ اللَّيْلِ فَسَبِّحْ وَأَطْرَافَ النَّهَارِ لَعَلَّكَ تَرْضَىٰ [٢٠:١٣٠] )[en.maududi] So bear patiently with what they say. Glorify your Lord, praising Him before sunrise and before sunset,( Subuh and Asar), and in the watches of the night,(I’sha), and glorify Him and at the ends of the day that you may attain to happiness.

In this verse below, In the chapter Al Isra’, verse no:78, the Almighty Allah says:) أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا([١٧:٧٨][en.ahmedraza] Keep the prayer established, from the declining of the sun (Zuhur), until darkness of the night(Asar), and the Qur’an at dawn (Fajar); indeed the angels witness the reading of the Qur’an at dawn.

Here is indicated clearly, the time of Zuhur prayer+Asar+Subuh.

In this verse below,chapter Al Nur, verse 24, the Almighty Allah says:( فِي بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ اللَّهُ أَن تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ فِيهَا بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالْآصَالِ [٢٤:٣٦])[en.maududi] (Those who obtain guidance to His light are found) in the houses which He has enjoined to raise up and to mention His name therein. In them such people glorify Him morning and evening

Confirmation on what has been said above.

I do hope I answered your question, and Allah swt knows the best.Wassalamu alaikumYours in IslamProf.Dr.Hfz.Hajredin HoxhaCollege of Sharia and Islamic Studie-Qatar UniversityDoha-Qatar16.11.2012

Proffesor Hajredin said:Suran Tha verse 130:"So bear patiently with what they say. Glorify your Lord, praising Him before sunrise and before sunset,( Subuh and Asar), and in the watches of the night,(I’sha), and glorify Him and at the ends of the day that you may attain to happiness."

In this verse is mentioned: Subuh prayer + Asar+ I’sha prayer..

Pak Yehs debate:I agree with your interpretation of Subuh and Isha prayer. But you interpret "before Sunset" as "Asar" when it is actually Magrib, a prayer "before sunset", similar to Subuh, a prayer "before sunrise".Note, the prayer times were prescribed by the position of the sun. If before sunset is Asar, and after sunset is Isha, then what would Magrib be.??? The answer is before sunset is Magrib and not Asar.Asar is at 4 o;clock, How do you describe Asar by the position of the sun.???

Professor Hajredin said:Surah Al Israk verse 78"Keep the prayer established, from the declining of the sun (Zuhur), until darkness of the night(Asar), and the Qur’an at dawn (Fajar); indeed the angels witness the reading of the Qur’an at dawn."

Here is indicated clearly, the time of Zuhur prayer+Asar+Subuh.

Pak Yehs debate:Note, 1)"declining of the sun is = sunset and the sunset prayer is Magrib.Zuhur is not "declining of the sun" but "mid-day sun".That is how they tell time without watches.2) "darkness of the night is = Isha and not Asar.It is too stupid to say that darkness of the night is Asar.3) "From" and "to" describes the period of prayer. If the period is from Zuhur (12 o'clock to night 8 o'clock, that would be a period of 8 hours.!!! How can Allah tell you to pray for 8 hours.??? Therefore this verse is telling you to pray from Magrib to Isha, which is a few minutes, which is actually describing the period of the Magrib prayer.

I hope the mater is clarified. There is no Zuhur and Asar in the verses you quoted, and there is no 5 times prayer in the Quran. There is only 3 prayers which Allah mention by name, ie Fajar, Wusta(Magrib) and Isha.Take note that the Zuhur and Asar prayer contradicts Quran 17:110, by being silent, thus being disqualified as solats specified by the Quran.

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported that during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) the hypocrites behaved in this way that when Allah's Prophet (may peace be upon him) set out for a battle, they kept themselves behind, and they became happy that they had managed to sit in the house contrary to (the act of) Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and when Allah's Prophet (may peace he upon him) came back, they put forward excuses and took oath and wished that people should laud them for the deeds which they had not done. It was on this occasion that this verse was revealed: "Think not that those who exult in what they have done, and love to be praised for what they have not done-think not them to be safe from the chastisement; and for them is a painful chastisement" (iii. 18).

Anas b. Malik reported: There was a person amongst us who belonged to the tribe of Bani Najjar and he recited Sura al-Baqarah and Surat Al-i-'Imran and he used to transcribe for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He ran away as a rebel and joined the People of the

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Book. They gave it much importance and said: He is the person who used to transcribe for Muhammad and they were much pleased with him. Time rolled on that Allah caused his death. They dug the grave and buried him therein, but they found to their surprise that the earth had thrown him out over the surface. They again dug the grave for him and buried him but the earth again threw him out upon the surface. They again dug the grave for him and buried him but the earth again threw him out upon the surface. At last they left him unburied

said, "May be."1.519:Narrated Aisha:Allah's Apostle used to offer the `Asr prayer when thesunshine had not disappeared from my chamber.1.520:Narrated `Aisha:Allah's Apostle used to offer the `Asr prayers at a time whenthe sunshine was still inside my chamber and no shadow had yetappeared in it.1.521:Narrated Aisha:The Prophet used to pray the `Asr prayers at a time when thesunshine was still inside my chamber and no shadow had yetappeared in it.1.522:Narrated Saiyar bin Salama: I along with my father went toAbu− Barza Al−Aslami and my father asked him, "How Allah'sApostle used to offer the five compulsory congregationalprayers?" Abu− Barza said, "The Prophet used to pray the Zuhrprayer which you (people) call the first one at midday whenthe sun had just declined The `Asr prayer at a time when afterthe prayer, a man could go to the house at the farthest placein Medina (and arrive) while the sun was still hot. (I forgotabout the Maghrib prayer). The Prophet Loved to delay the`Isha which you call Al− `Atama [??] and he disliked sleepingbefore it and speaking after it. After the Fajr prayer he usedto leave when a man could recognize the one sitting beside himand he used to recite between 60 to 100 Ayat (in the Fajrprayer) .

Q1077. Mu`adh (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) sent me as a governor to Yemen and (at the time of departure) he instructed me thus: "You will go to people of the Scripture (i.e., the Jews and the Christians). First of all invite them to testify that La ilaha ill Allah (There is no true god except Allah) and that Muhammad (PBUH) is His slave and Messenger; and if they accept this, then tell them that Allah has enjoined upon them five Salat (prayers) during the day and night; and if they accept it, then tell them that Allah has made the payment of Zakat obligatory upon them. It should be collected from their rich and distributed among their poor; and if they agree to it, don't take (as a share of Zakat) the best of their properties. Beware of the supplications of the oppressed, for there is no barrier between it and Allah.''

Prof. Hajredin quoted four (4) verses to indicate that there are 5 "salats" mentioned in the Quran. However if we were to study those verses carefully we will note that only one (1) verse talks about "salat". This is very important in order to differentiate between "salat" and the other ibadah.

Q11:114 - states to "aqimi alssalata" or to establish "salat", at certain specific times.

Prof. Hajredin quotes:-Q20:130 does not mention "salat" but "sabbih" which mean glorify and "hamd" meaning praised.

Q7:205 the word used is "Uzkur" to mean remember. No "salat" mention here.

Q17:78 the word "salat" is mention in this verse.

Q24:36 "Yusabbih" is used to mean glorified. again "salat" is not mention here.

Therefore what I can conclude here is that none of the verses quoted by the Prof. is about "salat" except one (1).

And if are to follow his thematic methodology then the decree for "salat" must have come in stages cause some of the verses are Makkiah and some Madaniah verses.

In this verse below, In the chapter Al Isra’, verse no:78, the Almighty Allah says:) أَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَىٰ غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ ۖ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا([١٧:٧٨][en.ahmedraza] Keep the prayer established, from the declining of the sun (Zuhur), until darkness of the night(Asar), and the Qur’an at dawn (Fajar); indeed the angels witness the reading of the Qur’an at dawn.

Narrated Anas bin Malik: When we offered the Zuhr prayersbehind Allah's Apostle we used to prostrate on our clothes toprotect ourselves from the heat.1.518:Narrated Ibn `Abbas: "The Prophet prayed eight rak`at for theZuhr and `Asr, and seven for the Maghrib and `Isha prayers inMedina." Aiyub said, "Perhaps those were rainy nights." Anas

Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah: The Prophet used to pray theZuhr at midday, and the `Asr at a time when the sun was stillbright, the Maghrib after sunset (at its stated time) and the`Isha at a variable time. Whenever he saw the people assembled(for `Isha' prayer) he would pray earlier and if the peopledelayed, he would delay the prayer. And they or the Prophetused to offer the Fajr Prayers when it still dark.

Anonymouse said:1.518:Narrated Ibn `Abbas: "The Prophet prayed eight rak`at for theZuhr and `Asr, and seven for the Maghrib and `Isha prayers inMedina." Aiyub said, "Perhaps those were rainy nights." Anas

===========8 rakaat for zuhur,8rakaat for Asar and 7 rakaat for Magrib and 7 rakaat for Isha? Ha,ha,ha.This is insane/false/confuse/rubbish/lahwal hadis.Why dont the hadis specify 3 for Magrib and 4 By sayin 7 for Madrib and Isha, it can be 4 for Magrib and 3 for Isha. Looks like the perawi hadis and Bukhari Muslim are bulshiting. Ha,ha,ha.

Mr. Anonymous, Quran says only 2 rakaat and no Zuhur and Asar.Zuhur,Asar,3rd takaat dan 4th rakaan solat silent and contraditing Quran 17:110, as such it is disqualified as a solat.

So, who is your God Allah or Bukhari Muslim.?You disregard the Quran and believe in Bukhari Muslim.! So your god is Bukhari Muslim.!You kafir and murtad!

but people like pakyeh refuse to follow Rasul (sunnah)which written in hadis.Bearing witness is not enough,one must follow the teaching in deeds,speech, heart etc.So many verse in Quran God command human to 'follow' his messenger:8:20,8:01,4:59,4:13.4:69,3:132 many more..

akupun said:but people like pakyeh refuse to follow Rasul (sunnah)which written in hadis.Bearing witness is not enough,one must follow the teaching in deeds,speech, heart etc.

Pak Yeh's reply:1) I do follow the true and authorized Rasullallah's sunnah and hadis, which is described as "ahsanal hadis" in the Quran.All of Rasullulah;s teachings and sunnah is in the Quran, the only book Allah and his Rasul authorized.Proof: Quran 39 :23"Allah hath revealed/wahyu the fairest of statements/ahsanal hadis, a Scripture (Quran) consistent,...", although I reject "lahwal hadis" which is the opposite and other than "ahsanal hadis"/the Quran, which Allah has warned againstProof, refer Quran 31:6"Some people use lahwal hadis(Bukhari Muslims hadis)to mislead others from Allah's path(Islam).Proof that Bukhari Muslim hadis is lahwal hadis is 1) His Israk Mikraj hadis which mocks Allah by saying Allah misplanned 50 solats a day and flip flopped to 5 solats a day.Ha,ha,ha.What a nonsense hadis.2)the stoning of adulteres, taken from monkeys. Even monkeys are taken as Rasul by Bukhari Muslim.And where did Bukhari Muslim learn to understand monkey language.??? From Tarzan of the Apes.??? Ha,ha,ha. Bukhari Muslim is making a mockery of Islam.As such it fits the term lahwal hadis which misleads Muslims and make a mockery of Islam as warned by Allah in Quran 31:6.

Mr akupun,If you want to debate you must first 1) answer the 3 questions given in my article.!!!2)Then proof that the Bukhari Muslim is authorised by Allah and the prophet by using Quran evidence.3)Also give proofs from the Quran that the Quran and sunnah is not complete without another book called Bukhari Muslims hadis.It is also good for you to debate @ http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

Unbeliever wrote:2)Then proof that the Bukhari Muslim is authorised by Allah and the prophet by using Quran evidence.3)Also give proofs from the Quran that the Quran and sunnah is not complete without another book called Bukhari Muslims hadis.

reply:i will not fall into yr misleads, u are tryin to show Quran/Sunnah+Hadis is one, but it is not, Quran is God word,Sunnah/hadis is compilation of Prophet speech/act/deeds thoughout His Life.But u are saying Quran/hadis+sunnah is same!

2.The proof is here: 3:31, 24:54, but ofcourse mentioning name of book/hadis will be not smart for there are to many Hadis compiler,and some of them did compile false hadis,and then id we fall in dispute over it,we should back Quran.

3.Nodoby said Quran is incomplete without Bukahri/muslim? who said? tell me, sunnah which is written in Hadis is explaining/ilustrate/clarify/amplipfy those whos in doubt,even after reading Quran,for Quran words sometime can be scientific,sometimes poetic etc2..No body said Quran is incomplete without hadis.For example,the prayer/solah itself, u do pray 3x, but how u pray,ruku/sujud/itidal etc2, show me, where in Quran the way to solah is shown? if u are Quran believer,point me that surah...if there is no surah explaining it, then i wonder how and where do u learn to pray(3x) maybe ayah pin came down from 7th heaven and teach u.. :-) ...

Akupun said:2.The proof is here: 3:31, 24:54, but ofcourse mentioning name of book/hadis will be not smart for there are to many Hadis compiler,and some of them did compile false hadis,and then id we fall in dispute over it,we should back Quran.

Pak Yeh's Reply:Quran 3:41"Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful", Quran 24:52 "He who obeyeth Allah and His messenger, and feareth Allah, and keepeth duty (unto Him): such indeed are the victorious".

Pak Yeh's reply:1)Do you mean to say that the ayat "follow Allah and follow the Messenger", means follow Bukhari Muslim's hadis.???That is not logical.Bukhari Muslim and his hadis did not exist during prophet Muhammad's time.!!!Whatever sunnah that is in use is the authorized ahsanal hadis/Quran only.!!!2)Remember Allah said the Quran is complete and so does not need another book to make it more complete.Proof.? Refer Quran 6:114 "Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED?".3) Allah said, no one,not even prophet Mohammads is made a partner in his hukum.Proof.??? Refer Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)." On whose authority was the Bukhari Muslim hadis made a partner in Allah's hukum/laws.???

Akupun said:1)No body said Quran is incomplete without hadis.2)For example,the prayer/solah itself, u do pray 3x, but how u pray,ruku/sujud/itidal etc2, show me, where in Quran the way to solah is shown? if u are Quran believer,point me that surah...if there is no surah explaining it,

Pak Yeh's reply:Your 2nd statement contradicts your 1st statement.Allah says, He did not leave anything out in the Quran. Yet you are saying the how to solat is left out of the Quran. Are you saying the Quran is incomplete then.???Answer this question first before I will show you the detailed theory of how the solat is done, including rukuk and sujud in the Quran. Of course the practical part is by practice,ie following somebody.The hadis too cannot explain how the solat is done in its book.Anyway, How did the Muslim prayed, before Bukhari Muslims book were written.???That is the same way we Quran only Muslims practice our solat.!!!We and the prophets Sahabah and Muslims 300 years before Bukhari Muslim lived never used Bukhari Muslims hadis.So You only need the Quran to pray.In it is shown the times of prayer better than the hadis can.In fact the hadis kantoi in explaining the times of prayer.Rwuduk and tayamum is stated,The rakaats, and the tone of solat is stated.What to say,rukuk and sujud are all stated for those who can see and read.Maybe you are the blind like cattle,that is destined for hell, that Allahs says about those who neglect the Quran.Refer Quran 7:179 "Already have We urged unto hell many of the jinn and humankind, having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not, and having ears wherewith they hear not. These are as the cattle - nay, but they are worse! These are the neglectful". Ha,ha,ha.

So far you are the only person who quotes quranic verses to support your statements.However I find that you are not able to differentiate the function of a messenger and a prophet. Muhammad is not only a rasul/messenger he is also a prophet. These are two different personalities at work.

You quoted Q3:31 & 24:54 impling that we should follow the Hadith is very misleading. For Rasul/Messenger never utter any hadith except those found in the Quran.

Salam akupun,ahhh! pakyeh...pls open new website,this blogspot is not suitable for discussion.if u want to register new web i'll do it for u-free,u only have to pay yearly server fees.waste my time type so much but cant post,only 4096 character is allowed.i paste reply here:http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4adhP9Ep

Pak Yehs reply:Postings that are too long are often not read. Why dont you break them up and K.I.S.S. Keep it short and simple.

Salam akupun.I am not going to pay you for a website full of A.I.D.S. Virus.I am not going to debate you in a bin either.You have to debate here like everyone else.Where is your Quran proof that belief in the Rasul means belief in the written hadis of prophet Mohammad or that of Bukhari Muslim.???If what you mean its the practice/tradition, then it is just that, the UNWRITTEN practice/tradition. In fact the Quran Sunnah has been corrupted by the Bukhari Muslim hadis ,especially in the practice of solat, where the hadis contradicts the Quran.The logic is,if a hadis contradicts the Quran,it is a false hadis.

What is hadith?It means means a report, tale, story, statement, narration, a communication or a discourse. Its plural form is 'Ahadith'. Ahadith depends completely on a chain of oral transmitters before being put into texts. Complete chain of narrators is called sanad or isnad.

What is sunna?Literally it means ‘to follow a well trodden path, a line or mode of conduct that is well established in practical terms’.

While 'Hadith' is an oral communication that is said to be from the Prophet or his teachings, the 'Sunna' signifies the prevailing customs of a particular community or people. A practice which is contained within the Hadith may well be regarded as Sunna, but it is not necessary that a Sunna would have a supporting hadith sanctioning it.

Sunna must be supported by Quran. Sunna or practices such as Azan or Iqamah to the newborn child, kissing hajarul aswad are not in the Quran and thus should not be taken as religious practice.

As for Quran, it came to us by a rigorous oral and written form along with the complete consensus of the Muslim communities. If Quran is transmitted only orally or in writing, the Quran should varies. But we never see Quran version 2 or 3, do we? Furthermore, did Allah promised that He WILL preserved His words?

Don’t we Muslims believe in verse 4:82? Or verse 39:23? Allah has revealed all of His hadith, in what hadith after this should Muslims believe?

Pak Yehs reply:I think you kantoi in your Quran reference.But I have seen that verse.Man of authority / UlilAmr means the rightly guided Kalifas. However there were some misguided Kalifas too.So that verse is not a blank check believe in government(UMNO/BN) leaders/Muftis/ Ulamas or Bukhari Muslim. This Quran verse comes with a condition of obeying the Quran wich is both Allah and the prophets ahsanal hadis. Other hadis are considered lahwal hadis which Allah has warned us not to use.Refer Quran 31:6."Some people use lahwal hadis to mislead others from Allahs patha(Islam), without knowledge, and make a mockery of it(Allahs path/Islam).Do you belief in this verse.???

Omar Bin Abdulaziz uplift ban of hadis writing.He is man of authority at that time.

Amir/mufti is man of authority at our time.They too,approve most of muslim/bukhari.

you choose to oppose them-man of authority,you are indeed,opposing 4:59.

but it is true also,some hadis lack of credential,weak etc.Still we have to go back to the chain-ulama-Quran to refer and solve,kicking them away and start making own ayahpin kingdom is not the solution.

im talking this in context of hadis,(for im a leftist),actually i came to correct the verse.May Allah guide the non believers.

akupun said:Omar Bin Abdulaziz uplift ban of hadis writing.He is man of authority at that time.

========Pak Yehs reply:Now you agree that there was a ban on the hadis for 300 years untill Bukhari Muslim wrote it.!!!

You read the verse Quran 4:59 again."O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end."

Point no.1) Obey Allah means obey the Quran, His wahyu.2) Obey the Rasul also means obey the Quran in his absence as the Quran is also the Rasul's words/hadis.The Bukhari Muslim hadis was non existent and non obligatory.3)If the prophet Mohammad banned the hadis, but Kalifa Omar Abdul Aziz uplifted the ban, then the Kalifa had DISOBEYED the Rasul.4)The condition of a) obey Allah and b)obey the Rusul is a must for us and the "man in authority".As such Kalifa Omar Abdul Aziz did not meet the criteria/condition of the "man in authority".

Point no.5) The 2nd part of the verse "and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, REFER TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end".

This means that if we have a dispute,as an example,the times and number of solats per day, then we have to REFER TO ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER.REFER TO ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER can only mean that the Quran is the only book that explains the times and number of solats per day.

The hadis Of Bukhari Muslim is non existant at that time. So the dogma "you cannot solat without the Bukhari Muslim hadis" is false.!!!

akupun said:Omar Bin Abdulaziz uplift ban of hadis writing.He is man of authority at that time.

========Pak Yehs reply:Now you agree that there was a ban on the hadis for 300 years untill Bukhari Muslim wrote it.!!!

You read the verse Quran 4:59 again."O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end."

Point no.1) Obey Allah means obey the Quran, His wahyu.2) Obey the Rasul also means obey the Quran in his absence as the Quran is also the Rasul's words/hadis.The Bukhari Muslim hadis was non existent and non obligatory.3)If the prophet Mohammad banned the hadis, but Kalifa Omar Abdul Aziz uplifted the ban, then the Kalifa had DISOBEYED the Rasul.4)The condition of a) obey Allah and b)obey the Rusul is a must for us and the "man in authority".As such Kalifa Omar Abdul Aziz did not meet the criteria/condition of the "man in authority".

Unbeliever said:“ Now you agree that there was a ban on the hadis for 300 years…”

Reply, its not 300yrs, Umar Abdul Aziz is grandson of Umar Al-Khattab,its just 80 yrs.(the irony is,Umar Al Khattab is against any Hadis writing,again-He was Man of authority,and then,his grandson oppose umar)

Refute point no.1“…as the Quran is also the Rasul's words…”-Show me old man…which verse is Rasul words? (I’ll increase yr ice cream money from $2 to $4),Quran,is Allah words, in them,Allah give examples story of rasul,repetition what rasul/people said such as story between Musa and Pharaoh …yr are downgrading quran.

Rasul never ban any hadis writing,there was sahabah who wrote hadis in presence and acknowledge by rasul,even corrected by him, hadith recording and collection started at the time of the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. Abd-Allah ibn Amr ibn al-'As, Radi-Allahu unhu, sought and was given the permission to write everything he heard from the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa Sallam, who said: "By the One in Whose Hands is my life! Whatever proceeds from here [pointing to his mouth] is the truth." He produced Sahifa Sadiqa, which contained more than six thousand ahadith. Anas ibn Malik, Radi-Allahu unhu, who spent ten years in Prophet's household, not only recorded the ahadith but also presented them to the Prophet, Salla-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and got corrections. Abu Hurairah, Radi-Allahu unhu, had many volumes of his collections and even produced smaller compilations for his students. Prominent Hadith scholar Dr. Mustafa Azami has shown in his doctoral thesis that in the first century of Hijra many hundred booklets of hadith were in circulation. By the end of the second century, "by the most conservative estimate there were many thousands."

Do u think,rasul will not know if there are sahabah writing/collecting hadis-IF its is wrong?

Continue..Agree point no3,BUT, if Rasul didn’t ban any hadis writings,then khalifa is not disobeying rasul.

Point 4, which criteria do not meet ‘condition’ man of authority? Point me which verse is indicating that criteria? I mean specifically ,because u are man who just believe whats in quran and not hadis,I would like to follow yr way (just this time) give me that verse which point to the criteria.. or is that criteria exist only in ayahpin tafsir?

Point 5: Pakyeh-“…REFER TO ALLAH AND THE MESSENGER can only mean that the Quran is the only book that explains the times and number of solats per day…”

If God want us to refer Quran only,it is easy to say ‘refer to Quran’, but God firman 1st refer to ALLAH-mean Quran(why Quran? We cant ‘meet’ Allah in this life-so its His Book we refer),its not stop there,2nd refer to 'messenger', this 2nd part,we can assume it as Rasul him self-for people who were there at the time of rasul,but then this verse is for all mankind until the end,how to refer/meet rasul when he is already wafat? For this we have to go back to the chain hadis-tabiin-sahabah etc.I think this is better,refer Allah->we cant->Then refer Book(quran),Refer messenger->we cant->then refer Hadis.

If I follow yr logic blindly,then I’ll be living somewhere in cave in future,for u reject any other book than Quran.At this point,u looks like anti establish, hadis is establishment –Quran is core.How can u convince people with yr orthodox mind?

Last:” The hadis Of Bukhari Muslim is non existant at that time. So the dogma "you cannot solat without the Bukhari Muslim hadis" is false”

Reply-of course its not exist,as I said,the compiler not born at that time, and why people should follow bukahri at the time when 4 sahabah the companion of prophet still exist?Wallahu'alam.

akupun,We are still debating on Quran 4:59Though we should be debating on Allah warning on the hadis in Quran 31:6.1) we agree that "follow Allah" means "follow the Quran".

2)We are not in agreement with "follow the prophet".Pak Yeh say it means the Quran,because there is no other book in existence.Akupun disagree saying it is another book of hadis Bukhari Muslim or somebody else.2.1)If that is true,p;ease show me the evidence of this book that that exist during the prophets time and used by the Kalifas.2.2)Show me Quran verses that say there is a 2nd book to be believed by Muslims. Your interpretation that follow the Rasul means follow the hadis is invalid as there were no hadis books available then.And if there were no hadis books then,having one is a bidaah/something new which the Rasul did not do.2.3)I will show you books that say that the hadis was banned and burned by the Rasul and the sahabahs.Refer my article, The ban/burn of the hadis.And you akupun has to disprove it at my article @ http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

3)We disagree on Omar Abdul Aziz as the "man in authority" because he disobeyed the Rasul by lifting the Rasuls ban on the hadis.Read ny article the ban/burn of the hadis @ http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

akupun,We are still debating on Quran 4:59Though we should be debating on Allah warning on the hadis in Quran 31:6.1) we agree that "follow Allah" means "follow the Quran".

2)We are not in agreement with "follow the prophet".Pak Yeh say it means the Quran,because there is no other book in existence.Akupun disagree saying it is another book of hadis Bukhari Muslim or somebody else.2.1)If that is true,p;ease show me the evidence of this book that that exist during the prophets time and used by the Kalifas.2.2)Show me Quran verses that say there is a 2nd book to be believed by Muslims. Your interpretation that follow the Rasul means follow the hadis is invalid as there were no hadis books available then.And if there were no hadis books then,having one is a bidaah/something new which the Rasul did not do.2.3)I will show you books that say that the hadis was banned and burned by the Rasul and the sahabahs.Refer my article, The ban/burn of the hadis.And you akupun has to disprove it at my article @ http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

3)We disagree on Omar Abdul Aziz as the "man in authority" because he disobeyed the Rasul by lifting the Rasuls ban on the hadis.Read ny article the ban/burn of the hadis @ http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

reply:Pakyeh:2)We are not in agreement with "follow the prophet".

Reply: then u are not muslim,1st and basic believe for one to be muslim is bear witness there is no god but Allah AND witness that Muhammad is messenger. (mean to follow-iman).

If we analyse 33:21 furthermore:” Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the last Day, and remembereth Allah much” /some translate: good example to follow..

Good example…how many good examples is written in Quran? This not point to say Quran is incomplete,Allah firman,there are hundreds thousand apostle in world,but Quran give name only 25,can we say Quran is incomplete then? So the expand of it is in Hadis-Rasul Words/deeds.Continue..

You have not given any Quran proof that there is a 2nd book, is spite of the many Quran quotes. You have only given inference that to believe in the prophet is to believe in the hadis, although hadis only appeared 300 years after the Rasul died.These same book of hadis blaspheme Allah and make a mockery of Islam contradicting itself by saying the Rasul banned/burned the hadis. How to believe.???

akupun said:Pakyeh:2)We are not in agreement with "follow the prophet".

akupun Reply: then u are not muslim,1st and basic believe for one to be muslim is bear witness there is no god but Allah AND witness that Muhammad is messenger. (mean to follow-iman).

Pak Yehs reply:This is a dirty trick.You are cherry pickijng my words.I said I dont believe in the hadis of Bukhari Muslim. That does not mean I dont believe in prophet Mohamad.I believe in the Quran and whatever it says, means I believe in the Rasul. You are such a jerk to say that.No ethics and low class in debate.Lets cut this debate short by debating the core issu,ie the falsehood of the hadis.

1) You need to debate the many hadis and books that says the prophet Mohamad banned/burned the hadis @ http://warongpakyeh.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-ban-burn-of-hadis.html

2) You need to debate Allah's Quran 31:6 warning against "lahwal hadis" that misleads Muslims and make a mockery of Islam, especially the hadis that says Allah is a flip flop planner of hadis,the hadis narated by monkeys, and the idolatry hadis of kissing the hajar aswat.Most of rhese items had been debated. I wonder if you have read it.???3) You need to debate on Quran 18:26 "He does not make any one(not even the Rasul) His associate in His ‘HUKM’ (Laws and Ruling)."

Reply:1.Theres No direct verse indicating Hadis/muslim/bukhari.AND,there no direct verse indicating many aspect in life,there’s only fundamental/core/basic guidance in Quran-if God send it all in Quran,it will be no use,because no body will read,even 30 juz aslo people refuse to read.

2.i Did give u ref. ‘bout hadis is not banned by Rasul/and its started not after 300yrs,its started erlier,in presence of Rasul.

31:6 said:“But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.Y.ali”

akupun Reply: 1.Theres No direct verse indicating Hadis/muslim/bukhari.AND,there no direct verse indicating many aspect in life,there’s only fundamental/core/basic guidance in Quran-if God send it all in Quran,it will be no use,because no body will read,even 30 juz aslo people refuse to read.

Pak Yeh's reply:No reference to a 2nd book by Bukahri,Muslim etc, therefore no obligation to believe in it. So Quran is the only obigatory book for the Muslims.

akupun said: 2.i Did give u ref. ‘bout hadis is not banned by Rasul/and its started not after 300yrs,its started erlier,in presence of Rasul.

Pak Yeh's reply:The hadis on banning of the hadis does not contradict the Quran.In fact it supports Quran 31:6.Nobody could disproof that the Rasul banned the hadis as such it becomes a historical fact.

Pak yeh's reply:I can say that my source of hukum/law is from Allah/Quran.You cannot say that your hukum (5x solat) is from Allah.You only can say that your source of law are the narators/man's law and therefore not gods law.

akupun said: 6. -31:6,didn’t mention anything about ‘hadis’-its yr interpolation/fabrication,31:6 said: “But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.Y.ali”

Pak Yehs reply:you musr ead the Quran in Arabic, then you will find the word "lahwal hadis in it.According to your translation..lahwal hadis = purchase idle talesactually lahwal hadis means "idle hadis" or more aptly "fake hadis".The word purchase does not appear in a word for word translation.As such it is a miss-translation of the Quran.You can check the word for word translation by Lane Poole or the corpus Quran.

akupun said: 7.whats with 18:26? Its true, but I think it is pointed to Christians-they associate God with jesus and mary.

Pak Yeh's reply:The verse is proof that only wahyu/Allah's words/Quran is God's Law. Man's words(Rasul,narators of hadis are not gods law.Therefore making the hadis into Godslaw/Syariah/Hudud is haram, because it is man;s words and is full of faults ie "lahwal".

Proof that Bukhari Muslim hadis is lahwal hadis is..1) the Israk Mikraj hadis that says Allah flip flopped from 50 to5 solats a day when planning the solat.1) the inclusion of "talking monkey hadis" in the hudud law of stoning the adulterer is mind bogglingly lahwal hadis, as unlikely that Bukhari Muslim understood monkey language. This is the most hilarious mockery that is layed on Islam and the Muslims.Proven Bukhari Muslim is lahwal hadis.QED.

Can you come up with examples of "purchase idle tales" that mislead others from Allahs path, and make a mockery of it.??? Put some sense in your nonsense please.!!!Ha,ha,ha.

Pak Yeh's reply:Whats the matter with you.? I have given you that. Quran 31:6 is a ban on lahwal hadis or misleading hadis.Your own hadis though not by Bukhari Muslim also banned the hadis. The example of Bukhari Muslim saying Allah is a flip flop planner of solat and the monkey hadis is enough for you to disbelieve in Bukhari Muslim. Maybe u do not worship Allah,thats why u dont care Bukhari Muslim hadis mock Allah. You dont expect Allah to mention Bukhari Muslim by name, do you.???hadis do you.???

akupun said...untill now, you still not post here the way u pray...pls dont forget to show us..i want to see,how the man who always obey Allah hukum pray..heh he..

Pak Yeh's reply:The practical part of the religion is taught by practical means. The hadis does not tell you to pray,neither does the Quran.Books can only give you theory. It is through practice/tradition/culture, following the Imam, that we learn how to pray. You can say it is sunnah. But the sunnah comes from the Quran. Hadis sunnah only mislead the Muslims into mazhabs. Syiah has their own hadis sayin Rasul left the Quran and his ahli bait/progeny. Sunni has their own hadis saying Rasul left the Quran and the sunnah.Though sunnah was just a practice, they later turned sunnah into the book of hadis.Hadis has been politicised by the Monarchs of the time to make themselves the rulers..a very important strategy of politics, nothing more nothing less.

Pak Yeh's reply:Whats the matter with you.? I have given you that. Quran 31:6 is a ban on lahwal hadis or misleading hadis.Your own hadis though not by Bukhari Muslim also banned the hadis.

The example of Bukhari Muslim saying Allah is a flip flop planner of solat and the monkey hadis is enough for you to disbelieve in Bukhari Muslim. Maybe u do not worship Allah,thats why u dont care Bukhari Muslim hadis mock Allah. You dont expect Allah to mention Bukhari Muslim by name, do you.???hadis do you.???

Reply:Again,u did not give me the answer, I give 3 translation from 3 renowned translator of 31:6,pls show me which part is saying Bukhari/muslim is banned by Quran!

a)M.Asad “But among men there is many a one that prefers a mere play with words [to divine guidance], so as to lead [those] without knowledge astray from the path of God, and to turn it to ridicule: for such there is shameful suffering in store.”b) Yusof Ali-“But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty”.c) Picktall-“And of mankind is he who payeth for mere pastime of discourse, that he may mislead from Allah's way without knowledge, and maketh it the butt of mockery. For such there is a shameful doom”.

Which one said Bukahri/muslim banned as u mislead? Common pakyeh, don’t waste our time.For u are not a hadis believer,I cannot accept yr point from hadis itself,u are Quran only believer,gimme Quranic proof/exact word of banning Bukhari/Muslim.

Pakyeh- :The practical part of the religion is taught by practical means. The hadis does not tell you to pray,neither does the Quran.Books can only give you theory. It is through practice/tradition/culture, following the Imam, that we learn how to pray blab la bla…

Reply-this is not the answer I ask u ..are u dumb or what?,I ask u to show me the way u pray according to Quran??? Is that question to tough for u? now if u want to corner us to side,and say that u are following some imam from 1400 yrs before,then we come to same end-you said hadis is wrong/false because it compiled 300yrs after rasul wafat(even though Abu huraira start collecting at time or Rasul),but yet u are following blindly some imam after 1400yrs rasul wafat,isn’t it same? Yr argument is falling,u have to quickly give me the answer and stop looking like a stupid.

You are big liar when u said hadis does not tell us how to pray, refer here: http://goo.gl/7HwjY , and there many more Hadis.Pls do read and comment,don’t mumble like a cattle.

i agree some part of yr thought,as hadis is used by monarch/politican/, but that reason is not strong enough for me,to throw away the whole milk.

i will see 1st,is the justification used by politician to approve their deeds is matching with sunnah/Quran ,if it match then why reject?it will go against 4:59,against the Man of authority.from my view this man of authority is ulama/khalifa etc,i agree we cant blindly bow to their rules.Ayahpin,is also man of authority among his disciple.

im in argument,if u can show proof that convincing,i maybe rethink of this bukhari/muslim.

akupun said:Again,u did not give me the answer, I give 3 translation from 3 renowned translator of 31:6,pls show me which part is saying Bukhari/muslim is banned by Quran!

Pak Yehs reply:Please remove all translation for lahwal hadis and insertthe words lahwal hadis in the translations.Do you not fing lahwal hadis in the real Quran.??? Can you read the Arabic Quran>???Didnt Allah say not to use lahwal hadis.?? in Quran 31:6.???I am fed up of explaining to stupid people like you who cannot debate properly and resort to personal attacks. Now if you do not understand that Allah fobids lahwal hadis and you do not want to find out what lahwal hadis is, then you do not want to know the truth.Show me where in the Quran is Zuhur and Asar just like Professr Hajredin method.He kantoi there.Why dont you go help debate for him. I am totally open to pray 5 times a day if you can proof it in the Quram. I have debate so much, and you a late comer, not reading all that was debated, just come in to anoy. If you really want to know the truth you must follow the debate from begining to the end.Not answering my question, shows how uneducated in debating you are.You last the debate by doing that.

Reply:if I remove all translation and put Lahwal hadis,still it don’t show me Bukhari/muslim.As I said,its yr own interpolation for giving lahwal hadis meaning as bukhari/muslim.None of Quran verse indicating that Bukahri/muslim is wrong.

I expect u to answer my question few times,for there are more important thing I want u to clarify behind that question,but u are not giving the answer,it disappoint me and drag us deeper to chaos,if only u just answer then we’ll save a lot.

as i said,this lahwal hadis that you refer as Bukhari/,muslim can also be something else,and i foun below axplanation is more convincing than yours.its not 31:6 but its from same srh Luqman describing lahwal Hadis.

THE FIRST AAYATThe Qur’aan Majeed states:“And, among people are those who purchase talks of futility (lahwal Hadith) thereby misleading (others) without knowledge from the Path of Allah, and they make of it (Allah’s Path) a mockery. For such people is the disgraceful punishment.” (Aayat 6, Surah Luqmaan) “And, when Our aayaat are recited to them, he turns away in arrogance as if he did not hear it; as if there are plugs in his ears. Give him the tidings of a painful punishment.”(Aayat 7, Surah Luqmaan)

TAFSEER OF THE AAYAT(1) Ibn Jareer reports that Ibn Abbaas (radhiyallahu anhu) said: “This aayat was revealed in regard to a man among the Quraish who had purchased a slave woman who was a singer (for the purpose of singing).”

It was the practice of a certain enemy of Islam to divert people from listening to the Qur’aan Majeed with music and singing. He had purchased a slave woman for this specific purpose.The Qur’aan Shareef, in its inimitable eloquence describes this singing and music with the terms ‘lahwal Hadith’, bringing within its scope not only music and singing, but all futile activities such as play and amusement which divert man’s attention from the purpose of his creation and from the Thikr of Allah Ta’ala. In addition to the applicability of the Qur’aanic aayaat to their relevant specific incidents which occasioned their revelation, the terms employed by the

Qur’aan constitute directives for all present and future exigencies having the same common effect (illat). In line with this eloquent style and the timeless nature of the Ahkaam, the Qur’aan brings music and singing within the ambit of the generical terms, lahwal Hadith. Hence, all futile, nonsensical and evil acts which divert man from Allah Ta’ala are ordained haraam by this aayat. Among the acts which have such a diversionary effect to the highest degree are music and singing. Even mubah (initially permissible) acts will become unlawful if due to excessive indulgence they divert man from Allah’s remembrance or they induce him to commit futility and haraam.

(2)deleted by akupun-go to source.

(5) In an exceptionally stern rebuke for those who indulge in singing and music, Hadhrat Makhool (rahmatullah alayh) said: “I do not perform Janaazah Salaat on him (one who indulges in music and singing) because Allah Ta’ala says (in the Qur’aan): ‘And, among people are those who purchase lahwal Hadith…” (Tafseer Mazhari)(6) del.(7) Explaining this aayat, Hadhrat Hasan Basri (rahmatullah alayh) said:“Verily, lahwal Hadith refers to everything which diverts you from the ibaadat of Allah and from His remembrance, such as story-telling during the night, jokes, futility, singing and similar acts.” (Tafseer Ruhul Ma-aani)

(10) The eminent Sahaabi, Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiyallahu anhu) said: “It means singing.” (Ighaathatul Luhfaan) This Qur’aanic aayat which severely criticizes lahwal Hadith, while it brings all forms of futility and nonsensical activities within its scope, specifically refers to singing and music. This is the unanimous tafseer of the authorities of the Shariah – the Sahaabah, Taabieen and Tab-e-Taabieen.more here:http://books.themajlis.net/book/print/694

akupun said:If I remove all translation and put Lahwal hadis,still it don’t show me Bukhari/muslim.As I said,its yr own interpolation for giving lahwal hadis meaning as bukhari/muslim.None of Quran verse indicating that Bukahri/muslim is wrong.

Pak Yehs reply:To you lahwal hadis does not equal Bukhari Muslim's hadis.But to me it does, and I support it with examples of Bukhari Muslim hadis that say Allah is a stupid planner of solat and a monkey hadis of stoning the adulterer. Did you not read it.???You aske me to show you a vers on the banning or fobiding of the hadis. I have given you the verse.Quran 31:6 forbids use of lahwal hadis. I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE VERSE. ITS just that you did not read the Arabic Quran.

akupun said:I expect u to answer my question few times,for there are more important thing I want u to clarify behind that question,but u are not giving the answer,it disappoint me and drag us deeper to chaos,if only u just answer then we’ll save a lot.

Pak Yeh's reply:No problem ,I will answer all you questions, but you too have not answered all my questions.

Pak Yeh jawab:Where is Zuhur and Asar.??? U try to bullshit me.??? Allah did not mention the names Zuhur ans Asar. What was mentioned was the time of fajar and magrib in the form of "di tepi siang".Apa daa Auta Keling.!!!

If you had followed my debate with Professor Hajredin,we need not waste our time redebating it.Luckyly I have the patience to endure your rudeness.

I think,its yr turn to answer,pls. remember,I wont stop at the way of solat only…I will ask u the bout 5 basic pillar of Islam,6 of iman and many more,I mean the way are doing all that according yr Quranic way and by rejecting hadis.Be prepared.I don’t care yr bullshit debate with prof. this is between us.I will try to walk on yr path,stubborn,I seen yr debate since astora,none of them show u agreeing with others,I wonder,adakah ada manusia yg memang sentiasa betul,atau mereka hanya orang2 yg dah bodoh lagi sombong pula.

1st u said:2) Obey the Rasul also means obey the Quran in his absence as the Quran is also the Rasul's words/hadis/2ndPak Yeh's reply:Quran comes out off the prophets mouth.Its true quran come out from rasul mouth,but its not Muhammad own word,its God Firman,repeated 1st by jibril then Muhammad.Now if u recite Quran verse to yr child,can you say to him its yr word because you recite it? After rasul wafat,kahlifa usman recite and ask people to write it down on goat skin,can we say that Quran verse now is Usman word? Ha ha ha…pakyeh pusing u turn tak kena tempat daa..nak kelentong budak kecik bley la..

Quote"Where is Zuhur and Asar.??? U try to bullshit me.??? Allah did not mention the names Zuhur ans Asar. What was mentioned was the time of fajar and magrib in the form of "di tepi siang".Apa daa Auta Keling.!!!"Unquote

I am not moving untill u answer and give the time of Zuhur ans Asar according to the Quran.!!!And I am not moving untill you answer the 3 questions adressed in my article.This debate is over because you are not debating but giving unwanted shit from your mouth. One of your postings have been deleted because you are spewing shit.

Note: The debate is about the 3 questions posted on Pak Yehs article.So it must be geared to finally answere the questions.Debaters must try to prove that the hadis 5 x prayer does not contradict the Quran 3 x prayer, by proving that the Quran does state 5 x prayer.So far no one, not even Profesor Hajredin from Qatar Islamic University was able to prove it.

Kah kah kahby choosing to delete my post (evidence) you proved that you are no different than Linggam court,you are cursing linggam,but yet u are like him.

No use anymore for giving any verse,for this man is not going to believe,he expect god to say 1by1 name of solat(but prevent me from expecting the same in my question).

If u are not moving,fine,pm me if u have guts again.There're many debaters,like Zakir,when they debate, 3-4kafir will convert,but debate like this is driving people away from deen-maybe its inspired by satan-no use for mankind.

akupun said...This is Like Linggam Justice,you are prosecutor and Judge too!by choosing to delete my post (evidence) you proved that you are no different than Linggam court,you are cursing linggam,but yet u are like him

Pak Yehs reply:This is not a court.This is my blog.I delete only shit comments.You should have the sense not to be too arogant and rude each time you debate. The environment is hot enough without your rudeness. Now try posting again with nice and polite words, this time.

akupun said:Ye are quoting verse out of context and ask people to agree,

Pak Yehs reply;By all means, show me how I quote out of context. It is you and the hadis Ulamas translation and tafsir Ibni Kathir that quote the word "lahwal hadis" out of context and misleading. We are debating the real word in Arabic, not translations and tafsirs of the word. Translations and tafsir IS NOT THE REAL Quran.It is just opinion of the Ulama. How can 2 words be translated and tafsir into 3,4 4,5 6 words into buying dancing girls/singers etc>???.

Pak Yeh's reply;I dont know what you are talking about.?? You are going out of topic.

akupun said:No use anymore for giving any verse,for this man is not going to believe,he expect god to say 1by1 name of solat(but prevent me from expecting the same in my question).

Pak Yehs reply:The debate can continue if you can proof that Zuhur and Asar is stated in the Quran.That is where you and all ASWJ ans Syiah cannot do.So if Allah/Quran says 3 times solat aday but Bukhari Muslim says 5 solats a day, who is your God.???Answer if you got balls.!!!

akupun said:If u are not moving,fine,pm me if u have guts again.There're many debaters,like Zakir,when they debate, 3-4kafir will convert,but debate like this is driving people away from deen-maybe its inspired by satan-no use for mankind.

Pak Yehs reply:I am bringing you closer to the real deen of Quran/Islam. You are following the deen of Bukhari Muslim/Arabism.

I can say that my deen and my solat is Quran/Allah compliant.You cannot say that. You can only say that your deen and 5x solat is hadis/Bukhari Muslim/Arabism compliant.Ha,ha,ha. Checkmate.!!!

THE FIRST AAYATThe Qur’aan Majeed states:“And, among people are those who purchase talks of futility (lahwal Hadith) thereby misleading (others) without knowledge from the Path of Allah, and they make of it (Allah’s Path) a mockery. For such people is the disgraceful punishment.” (Aayat 6, Surah Luqmaan) “And, when Our aayaat are recited to them, he turns away in arrogance as if he did not hear it; as if there are plugs in his ears. Give him the tidings of a painful punishment.”(Aayat 7, Surah Luqmaan)

TAFSEER OF THE AAYAT(1) Ibn Jareer reports that Ibn Abbaas (radhiyallahu anhu) said: “This aayat was revealed in regard to a man among the Quraish who had purchased a slave woman who was a singer (for the purpose of singing).”

It was the practice of a certain enemy of Islam to divert people from listening to the Qur’aan Majeed with music and singing. He had purchased a slave woman for this specific purpose.

The Qur’aan Shareef, in its inimitable eloquence describes this singing and music with the terms ‘lahwal Hadith’, bringing within its scope not only music and singing, but all futile activities such as play and amusement which divert man’s attention from the purpose of his creation and from the Thikr of Allah Ta’ala. In addition to the applicability of the Qur’aanic aayaat to their relevant specific incidents which occasioned their revelation-(read in my blog full ver.)

You dont know the history of verse,u tryin to be guru by yr self,fabricating and give own interpolation of lahwal mean,people say,belajar sorang tnpa guru-saitan jadi guru-thats why i said yr debate is inspired by satan.haha..

(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58

Mr Moderator.Prof Hiajeradin view on tafsir AlQuran on salat is not his but the view of all the muslim ulama.I was suprise that in 2013,they are people who question how many time we ,the muslim pray a day.What we have among the 1 billion plus Muslim followers today,either they pray 5 time a day or they dont pray at all.I never come across any muslim community who pray 3 time a day.

We follow what Rasuallah SAW pratice and Rasuallah pray 5 time a day.After his death,the four califah ,Abu Bakar,Umar,Othmen and Ali continue his praice.If what was done by Muhamad saw(praying 5 time. A day) was against the Quran,surely Allah will send down His wahyu to correct it.They are four time in the life of prophet Muhamad saw that Allah send His wahyu to correct his action that wa not right.Rasuallah saw is al maksum.(perfect)

If you want to debate on Islam, you must have knowledge.You cant base on your personal view.Whatever your view,it must be agree upon by Islamic Ulama or juists.Salam

akupun said: (2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18

Pak Yeh reply:Q17;78 has been debated with Proffesor Hajredin.Pls refer the debate actual abouve.I have proven him wrong.No Zuhur in Q7:18.Q30:18 "Unto Him be praise in the heavens and the earth!and at the sun's decline and in the noonday".# No word "solat" in this verse.The word "tuxhiruna" had been translated into "noonday". Still no sing of Zuhur mentioned.

akupun said: (3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238

Pak Yehs reply:Q2:238"And forget not kindness among yourselves. Allah is Seer of what ye do. (237) Be guardians of your prayers, and of the midmost prayer, and stand up with devotion to Allah."

Pak Yehs reply:Nope no word Asar. If you mean the word wusta then it means middle ie Magrib.Magrib is named wusta according to the Quran.

akupun said: (4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114

THE FIRST AAYATThe Qur’aan Majeed states:“And, among people are those who purchase talks of futility (lahwal Hadith) thereby misleading (others) without knowledge from the Path of Allah, and they make of it (Allah’s Path) a mockery. For such people is the disgraceful punishment.” (Aayat 6, Surah Luqmaan) “And, when Our aayaat are recited to them, he turns away in arrogance as if he did not hear it; as if there are plugs in his ears. Give him the tidings of a painful punishment.”(Aayat 7, Surah Luqmaan)

TAFSEER OF THE AAYAT(1) Ibn Jareer reports that Ibn Abbaas (radhiyallahu anhu) said: “This aayat was revealed in regard to a man among the Quraish who had purchased a slave woman who was a singer (for the purpose of singing).”

Pak Yehs reply:We are not using translation and tafsir because we disagree.So we have to use original word"lahwal hadis".Translation and tafsir can be corrupted by hadis Ulamas.

You are using hadis to justify your translation tafsir of the word "lahwal hadis".However the example of hadis you showed is kantoi, because there is no proof or reference to say that "purchasing dancing slave" is "lahwal hadis".Beside it is legal to purchase dancing or whatever slaves. Allah encourage you to free them.

However there is a clear reference of the word "hadis" to the word lahwal hadis of Quran 31:6, in theses hadis, pertaining to the ban/burn of the hadis.Refer... 1) Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) banned the hadis. Zayd said:The Apostle of Allah ordered us not to write any of his traditions. So he erased it. [Sunan of Abu-Dawood Book 25, Number 3640:] Several other narators of hadis also said that the prophet prohibited Muslims from writing the hadis.2) Abu Bakar the 1st Kalifah burnt the hadis. We also have later historical sources from their OWN ahadith which say that the Caliph Abu Bakr burnt his notes of hadith (said to be 500 in all) for fear that they might be false,3) Umar ibn al-Khattab the2nd Kalifah banned the hadis. The earlier story related by Abd al-Razzaq is somewhat longer than the later story, containing a broad variety of orders. It is a list of commands and prohibitions that includes the command to“bare the Qur’an and spare the narration from God’s Messenger.”4) Ali Ibn Abu Talib the 4th Kalaifah banned the hadis. In one of his speeches he said,"I urge all those who have writing taken from the messenger of God to go home and erase it. The people before you were annihilated because they followed theHadiths of their scholars and left the book of their Lord." (Sunan Al-Daramy)

Ha,ha.Kantoi again akupun.!!!Giving false/lahwal hadis references that has no connection to the word hadis or "lahwal hadis" in Quran 31:6.!!!U a BIG lier.!!!

Ok,pakyeh,im now on yr track,i agree that wustaa is referring to to middle prayer,God use word wustaa to refer as magrib/middle.From yr hardworking explanation we all now know wustaa is maghrib/middle.

So,why then,God use word ‘sun decline’alshshamsi- 17:78? Why not use wustaa? Is God tryin to contradict is self? If there is no Zuhur in 17:78 then what it is?, is that maghrib? Then where is the word wustaa as you stretch? There is definitely some prayer indicated in that verse for it begin with “Establish regular [prayers]”

Remember,im on yr track,i now believe wustaa is maghrib/middle,and i want to know where is wustaa in 17:78.If theres not,then what it is?

akupun said:Remember,im on yr track,i now believe wustaa is maghrib/middle,and i want to know where is wustaa in 17:78.If theres not,then what it is?

Pak Yehs reply:Peace and patience. I went to town a while ago.Glad to hear you recognise that wusta is magrib. Wusta means middle.

akupun said:

So,why then,God use word ‘sun decline’alshshamsi- 17:78? Why not use wustaa? Is God tryin to contradict is self? If there is no Zuhur in 17:78 then what it is?, is that maghrib? Then where is the word wustaa as you stretch? There is definitely some prayer indicated in that verse for it begin with “Establish regular [prayers]”

Pak Yehs reply:May Allah forgive akupun for saying "Is God tryin to contradict is self?".Allah in the Quran,chalenges everyone to show a contradiction in the Quran.So peace and patience, and the truth will come to you.Did you read my debate on Quran 17:78 with Professor Hajredin?Mabe you did not. Pak Yeh is patient.Here I debate again...Proffesor Hajredin said:Quran17:79 "Keep the prayer established, from the declining of the sun (Zuhur), until darkness of the night(Asar), and the Qur’an at dawn (Fajar); indeed the angels witness the reading of the Qur’an at dawn.

Pak Yeh said:

1)The word "declining of the sun" is the start of sunset. Zuhur is mid-day,therefore "declining of the sun" cannot be Zuhur.!!!

2)The word "from" and "untill" from the above verse denotes a period or duration of worship. If the duration is from Zuhur/mid-day, the period of worship is 1200hrs) to "darkness of the night",/ end of sunset at 2000hrs. So the duration of worship is 8 hours. Which solat is 8hrs.???It does not make sense.As such the logical duration of worship is "from the "declining of the sun"/the sun going down/Magrib?Wusta at 1900hrs, untill darkness of the night/end of Magrib/start of Isha/200hrs,which is 1hour.Hence a logical duration for Magrib/Wusta its Quranic name.

3)Professor Hajredin says that "darkness of the hight" is Asar. That is a blatant lie and ignorance."darkness of the night is Isha.

4)Quran 2:238 mentions Wusta meaning middle.It refers to the middle solat when there are 3 solats in all. The other solats Allah mentioned by name is Fajar and Isha.

5)There is no other solat names, besides the 3 names,Fajar,Wusta and Isha. As such as Zuhur and Asar solats is never from the Quran.!!! It has its source from the hadis which is has trouble to tell the time of the solat by the position of the sun. No amount of tafsir can give the name of solats other than the 3, namely Fajar,Wusta and Isha.Zuhur ans Asar is definitely not in the Quran.

I hope you understand this long and tedious explanation.May Allah guide us to the Truth and nothing but the Truth.

1)The word "declining of the sun" is the start of sunset. Zuhur is mid-day,therefore "declining of the sun" cannot be Zuhur.!!!

Reply-Agree(coz im in yr track now) it cant be zohor, Then what it is? Is it maghrib? I cant accept (coz again,im in yr track- maghrib is wuthaa-and we cant find word ‘ wuthaa’ in 17:78,so its not Zohor,its not maghrib/wuthaa,Then what it is????

2)The word "from" and "untill" from the above verse denotes a period or duration of worship. If the duration is from Zuhur/mid-day, the period of worship is 1200hrs) to "darkness of the night",/ end of sunset at 2000hrs. So the duration of worship is 8 hours. Which solat is 8hrs.???It does not make sense.As such the logical duration of worship is "from the "declining of the sun"/the sun going down/Magrib?Wusta at 1900hrs, untill darkness of the night/end of Magrib/start of Isha/200hrs,which is 1hour.Hence a logical duration for Magrib/Wusta its Quranic name.

-I agree too,wutaa is magrib, Now, im super AGREE,wuthaa=maghrib especially after been explained by u,The great debater,im now convince,wuthaa is Magrib,But again,wuthaa is not mentioned in 17:78,then (again) what is in 17:78???,u said God cant contradict in Quran,for god already used wuthaa in 11:114,from that we know (as u explained wuthaa is maghrib) then why in 17:78 wustha is not mentioned, at this point,my faith to your truth is start to declining, coz u still don’t answer my question,WHAT IS IN 17:78????

3)Professor Hajredin says that "darkness of the hight" is Asar. That is a blatant lie and ignorance."darkness of the night is Isha.-This Is between u n him.

4)Quran 2:238 mentions Wusta meaning middle.It refers to the middle solat when there are 3 solats in all. The other solats Allah mentioned by name is Fajar and Isha.

-Im Super Duper agree,wustha is maghrib,Thank you pakyeh,for enlightening me ,wow,you are great!,even Imam like bukhari muslim aslo cant explain like u,Thank u pakyeh,u are now my GURU,Im convinced like crazy now that wuthaa is maghrib/middle,now please explain to me what is in 17:78,Coz my dear Guru,I cant find any ‘wustha’ in it…please..i will not accept any bullshit explanation,coz im convince already that Wusthaa is magrib,I want u to show me whereis wusthaa in 17:78.

5)There is no other solat names, besides the 3 names,Fajar,Wusta and Isha. As such as Zuhur and Asar solats is never from the Quran.!!! It has its source from the hadis which is has trouble to tell the time of the solat by the position of the sun. No amount of tafsir can give the name of solats other than the 3, namely Fajar,Wusta and Isha.Zuhur and Asar is definitely not in the Quran.

Quran 17:78 expalins the period/duration of time for doing the solat wusta/magrib.I dont know what else you are looking for. You ask me why Allah dont mention wusta in Quran 17:78.??? How do I know. You go ask him. What i know is it definitely is not Zuhur and Asar.If it is, why dont Allah mention Zuhur ans Asar in Quran 17:78, hah.???

Do you believe that Quran 31:6 is a prohibiltion on hadis naw.??? You hadis says so.So why dont you belief in that hadis.Cherry picking again. So inconsistent/contradicting yourself. Believe in all hadis or not at all.Don't flip flop.I dont have aproblem like you.

O Guru, can u please,show/teach me too,The way u pray,u said u are the true follower/believer of rasul,Then without doubt you may know how rasul(by putting muslim/bukhari aside) pray because of this:5:92, then pls dont forget to teach me the way you and rasul pray o my beloved newly found internet Guru.

O guru,i wonder how you will do Hajj(pillars),but its okay guru,u re not going to die today..so i'll ask u later.or maybe different Entry.

Pakyeh-Quran 17:78 expalins the period/duration of time for doing the solat wusta/magrib.I dont know what else you are looking for. You ask me why Allah dont mention wusta in Quran 17:78.??? How do I know. You go ask him. What i know is it definitely is not Zuhur and Asar.If it is, why dont Allah mention Zuhur ans Asar in Quran 17:78, hah.???

Me:Reply-kah kah kah…kah kah kah…this is yr explanation? Kah kah kah…WoW wee…Guru..now come here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunsetThe time of sunset is defined in astronomy as the moment when the trailing edge of the Sun's disk disappears below the horizon in the west. The ray path of light from the setting Sun is highly distorted near the horizon because of atmospheric refraction, making the sunset appear to occur when the Sun’s disk is already about one diameter below the horizon. Sunset is distinct from dusk, which is the moment at which darkness falls, which occurs when the Sun is approximately eighteen degrees below the horizon. The period between sunset and dusk is called twilight.

That’s scientific explanation of sunset,and that match with what is in Hadis,but Guru pakyeh explanation is- after 12.00pm till 7++ something is also sunset…kah kah kah,do u think yr disciple will believe u or hadis which match with science/Quran?

U are telling me to ask God? But I didn’t tell u the same when you stubbornly insist that surah Given explaining Zuhur/Asar don’t have any of that word, Is this yr logic or what? Common pakyeh,u know u r following 16:125 when u start this topic,but if yr answer is like that-‘Go ask God’,then I think next time better don’t ask anyone to debate.What do think?,u r attacking fundamental core of Islam and people will let u mumble just like that? Now I kick you from being my guru,now I’ll choose back aswj who follow authentic hadist/Rasul/quran.You disappoint me O guru.

And does al-Quran mention the way to perform solah? If the answer is NOT, then I'm curious.. how u do it since obviously u mentioned earlier that everything must as per al-Quran i/o hadist? Kita tak bertuhankan hadist rite? So, by taking the 3 times of solah (as you said) without Quran telling us how to be done, perhaps u could explain more from your own kepercayaan.. TQVM. Appreciated.

akupun,All you points had been refuted with Quran evidence.I am sorry for you, that you cannot understand. Looks like you are the cattle in Quran 7:179.

You however have not answered any of my 3 questions posted on my article.!!! You nave failed to debate and follow Quran 39:18"Listen to all views. Choose the best, These are the guided and the intelligent."The truth has evaded you.

Your questions will be answered if you read all the comments and try to answer the 3 questions I posted in the article.This debate is closed because it has been running for too long, and no ASWJ or Syiah want to answer the 3 questions posted on the article. Maybe they all got no brains or they are the cattle refered to in Quran 7:179.

Pak Yeh's reply:Dont be like cattle believing anything without Quran proof.You got Quran proof.? By all means show it here and debate it with me.Profesor Hajredin from Qatar Islamic University too said that,but he has no Quran proof.

"Establish the salat at the decline of the sun till darkness of the night". Surah 17 verse 78.

I ask you Pak Yeh, when is the moment when the sun starts declining towards sunset.During midday, when you stand under the sun, there is no shadow because the sun is directly above you.But when you start seeing a small shadow, it means the sun has started declining from the midday towards sunset.During that time, you perform Solat Al-Wusta. The reason that you believe that Maghrib is Al-Wusta is that you misinterpreted Surah 11 verse 114.

"You shall observe the Salat at the two ends of the day, AND zulufann min al-layl (in the near parts of the night)".Traditionally, this verse has been interpreted to be speaking of three prayers: two Salat at the ends of the day plus an additional salat during the night, a total of 3 salat. However, this is a clear mis-understanding. This verse in fact speaks of only two prayers which is Fajar and Esha.The 2 ends of the day that are mention in Surah 11 verse 114 are closes to the darkness of the night.The word "AND" is misinterpreted.The word "AND" in Surah 11 verse 114 connects the 2 ends of the day with the darkness of the night.

"Establish the salat from the decline of the sun till darkness of the night". Surah 17 verse 78.

I ask you Pak Yeh, when is the moment when the sun starts declining towards sunset.During midday, when you stand under the sun, there is no shadow because the sun is directly above you.But when you start seeing a small shadow, it means the sun has started declining from the midday towards sunset.During that time, you perform Solat Al-Wusta. The reason that you believe that Maghrib is Al-Wusta is that you misinterpreted Surah 11 verse 114.

Pak Yeh's reply:i dont know what you are trying to say.??? Is declining of the sun Zuhur or Asar.??? None of the 2 is declining of the sun.Magrib is declining of the sun. Wusta means the middle prayer between 3 prayers.so it must be Magrib.

Besides Quran 17:78 is a decribtion of the period of a solat,ie "from decling of the sun until the early part of night"This is 1 hour period.It cannot be from, Zuhur as the perion would be 8 hours.It cannot be from Asar too as the period of solat would be 4 hours. So the logical period of 1 hour is actually magrib.

This has been debated with Proffessor Hajredin. Please read the debate again, and refute it from there.Zuhur and Asar has never been proven in the Quran either by name or by the position of the sun.

Anonymous said: "You shall observe the Salat at the two ends of the day, AND zulufann min al-layl (in the near parts of the night)".Traditionally, this verse has been interpreted to be speaking of three prayers: two Salat at the ends of the day plus an additional salat during the night, a total of 3 salat. However, this is a clear mis-understanding. This verse in fact speaks of only two prayers which is Fajar and Esha.The 2 ends of the day that are mention in Surah 11 verse 114 are closes to the darkness of the night.The word "AND" is misinterpreted.The word "AND" in Surah 11 verse 114 connects the 2 ends of the day with the darkness of the night.

Pak yeh's reply:The verse states 3 prayers.ends of the day ie Fajar and Magrib. Early part of night is Isha.Wusta comes from another verse.and it means the middle.Given 3 solats, Fajar,Magrib and Isha, offcourse Magrib is wusta(middle) prayer.

Why do I need to refer to man when I can refer to Allah and His Book the Quran.We will see who is the stupid ones when we die and face Allah.I am dead sure I am right.As for Dr De MAZA and Ustaz Azhar, they must learn by debating here like everyone else, as per Quran 39:18:"Listen to all views.Choose the best.These are the guided and the intelligent".