Warning: this post contains spoilers for the last Game of Thrones episode, which aired Sunday.
I’m a big Game of Thrones fan, but I haven’t read the books. I’ve tried, but I wasn’t able to get into the writing. So when Sunday’s big death happened, even though I watched it later yesterday (On Sunday I had to watch The MTV Movie Awards) it was a complete surprise to me, and a very pleasant one.

Spoiler spoiler spoiler… sneering King Joffrey died, he was poisoned at his wedding to Margaery, and it was the most satisfying and spectacular death the series has delivered to date. Unlike the shocking events at the Red Wedding, this wedding death was more than welcome, and came directly after Joffrey had very ham-handedly attempted to humiliate his uncle, Tyrion (Peter Dinklage). (Of course it also came after Joffrey wielded his power in countless senseless evil ways, including murdering Sansa’s dad, Ned Stark.) Tyrion got blamed for Joffrey’s death, because he just happened to be serving Joffrey wine, at Joffrey’s command. It’s clear that Tyrion isn’t guilty, so who poisoned the wine? More on that in a moment.

First let’s talk about some of the cast tributes to the actor who plays Joffrey, Jack Gleeson, 21. While Gleeson’s character may be the ultimate loathsome bastard, his co-workers admire and respect him. They sung his praises to EW, and will genuinely miss working with him. Damn he’s an excellent actor.

Lena Headey (Queen Regent Cersei): “I love him. It’s been four years and I’ve kind of seen Jack grow up — he’s very smart and he’s very funny and he’s very charming. And he’s great company! You form friendships and that’s been a really special one to me and I literally look into his eyes and I get very upset because I go, ‘No!’ But he’s going and I get it.”

Headey on Cersei’s wedding-day thoughts: “I think she’s enjoying this moment for as much as she can. Seeing Joffrey as genuinely happy and excited to marry Margaery — it kills her, and also she f—ing loves him. She holds that boy on a very wobbly pedestal, but she holds him up. And yeah, it’s the beginning of everything falling down for her.”

Then she blames Tyrion: “Of course — who else could she blame? … The last thing she sees while holding her son is Tyrion and that’s all she needs.”

Natalie Dormer (Margaery Tyrell): “We’re all going to miss him — we’re all trying not to think about it that it’s his last day so everyone is a little morose at the idea of actually losing Jack. But once you’re part of the Thrones family, you’re always part of the Thrones family, you’re still part of the clan even after.”

Dormer teases Margaery’s reaction: “Well, politically, to lose one husband is bad, but to lose two husbands is careless! It’s really bad PR for Margaery. So regardless of what she thought of Joffrey as a human being, it’s not a good place for her to be in. So she’s like, you know, cursed or tainted goods.”

Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark): “It’s been the best time working with Jack. He is one of the most talented actors on the show — he’s the nicest person in real life and he’s become a really close friend. He’s the easiest guy to work with and it’s gonna be so sad to see him go. He’s not like one of those method actors that goes into a dark place to get it because if he was one of those guys, he’d be horrible to work with. Everyone who meets him is always totally surprised because he’s like the funniest person and him and Peter [Dinklage] are like a double act — it’s so weird! You can’t meet anyone nicer on the cast — everyone wants to hang out with Jack.”

Of course Gleeson can go on to work on other projects. His work on Game of Thrones was incredible. Gleeson doesn’t seem to want to continue acting, though. As Kaiser covered in November, he said that he was uncomfortable with the celebrity lifestyle and wanted to use his fame to help bring awareness to charities. He’s an impressive, upstanding guy. Somehow he manages to make you feel absolutely no sympathy for his whinging character and yet he’s nothing like that.

Getting back to Sunday’s episode, it was heavily implied that Sansa killed Joffrey. She had the opportunity to slip something into the goblet when she picked it off the floor and handed it to Tyrion. Then she wanted to leave after the glass was returned to Joffrey but before he had the chance to drink from it. Naturally it could have been anyone else at the table too. After Joffrey keeled over, foaming at the mouth, Sansa was spirited away by her friend the court jester, suggesting he helped her plot the murder. We’ll have to see though, and I get the sense that we won’t learn who killed Joffrey next week. I’m not going to google it, I want to be surprised, and please do not post book spoilers in the comments. Book spoilers will be deleted.

Also, while I hated Joffrey like everyone else, I was hoping that Margaery could tame him, she seemed to know exactly how to handle the bastard. I feel robbed of watching her mold him into a less horrible person. You know that Cersei is going to make Margaery’s life hell now.

me too. I tried to re-read it before the new season started but I just couldn’t bring myself to read through the Red Wedding again. The only thing I was surprised about was how soon they got to the Purple Wedding. I figured it would come more towards the middle of the season. Going to miss Jack Gleeson on the show, he really did bring that character to life.

If you go to Screen Rant they have a nice break down of the clues. Too bad I haven’t gotten that far in the series to discovered who did it but man, I was happy when I found out.

Sorry, Tatjana, I didn’t mean to sound like such a tattletale. I just think a lot of people still don’t know who did it, and they want to discover it for themselves, but I should mind my own business sometimes.

You clearly said you read the books so you are being disingenuous. If you hadn’t read the book, you would not have seen anything about who killed Joffrey. You have to look at the scene knowing the spoiler to even get what you are alluding to. Plus, I know who killed Joffrey and still didn’t see any obvious clues in the scene in the show so it is no means obvious who killed Joffrey unless you reveal the spoiler.

Derp, what? He died? What there were books that told us this already? I knew he was going to die and his death was so satisfying.

I think it was either Sansa or Mother Tyrell. That necklace she was given I think is key to him dying. ‘The strangler is a rare poison, which makes the person unable to breathe. The poison is made from plants that are only found on islands in the Jade Sea. The leaves of the plant are picked and aged, then soaked in a wash of limes, sugar water and rare spices from the Summer Islands. The leaves are then discarded, but the liquid is kept and thickened with ash and allowed to crystallize. It turns a deep purple color.’

What do you ladies think?

‘War is war but killing a man at his wedding… Horrid. What kind of monster would do that?’ Mother Tyrell

Well, i don’t read the books but i know who killed him and i won’t say. Also, did you have to put that picture of him dying?! I was horrified at seeing his veins constrict and his face contort in all manners… so used to seeing straight up violent deaths on this show that watching Joffrey go was a shock (aesthetically).

Not at all. I thought it was really well done unlike so many other death by poisoning/choking you see on screen. I found the King of the North scene more upsetting.
Apparently the book was worse, he claws at his throat so much he practically rips it open.

I watch TWD too! I hate straight up violent deaths like they show on TWD AND GoT, but sad to say, i’ve become desensitized. I won’t disagree that it was superbly done and that’s probably why i wanted to throw up after all of it.

ROOSE BOLTON IS HORRIBLE. I’ve never ever been a Theon sympathizer but wow, that boy has gone off his rocker after all the abuse that has been inflicted upon him. I think Roose deserves far worse than Joffrey. I can’t stand his scheming, devilish grin. Please tell me (in a non-spoilerish way) they get their comeuppance soon!

Tif & Mimi, I could be wrong (since names are kind of hard to keep up with), but Roose’s Bolton is the dad – who, while isn’t super great – but Ramsey Snow is his bastard son who was in charge of Theon. Roose’s did NOT want Ramsey to do what he did to “Reek”, Infact he was upset about it. But now it’s like making lemonade.

Oh okay, sorry! There are way too many people on this show. Ask my boyfriend, he’ll tell you how often I’m asking him, “Who the heck is that?! Am i supposed to know him?!” when we’re watching! But yes, they are both repulsive. Especially Ramsey!

I haven’t watched the ep yet (no HBO), but the next day my sister texted to ask if I’d watched it. When I told her no, she said I had to call her when I did because the most shocking thing happened. I said did they kill off Joffrey? I didn’t expect her to tell me I was right. I just threw out the thing I wanted most to see. However, I would have preferred a more painful, torturous, drawn out death for Joffrey. He deserved it. Little shit, indeed.

He was a viciously entertaining character, and now Jack’s off for a life of academia studying at Trinity College.
I hope he has a great time, but I’ll miss not seeing him on screen – he’s heavily implied (and even outright stated) that he won’t be returning to acting after GoT.
Definitely our loss.

In an Entertainment Weekly interview, Jack Gleeson says he’s not really interested in being an academic anymore. He wants to finish his final year of college and then do a post-graduate course. I think the guy should spend a few years off and think about what he would like to do in the future. Hopefully, he’ll return to acting in the future when he’s a bit older and wiser because he does have a real talent for it. But whatever he does, I wish him the best of luck!

So true. My hubby and I cheered at his death. I haven’t read the books, nor have I googled it. The hubby and I have theories: 1) Cersei – she’s sick enough to kill her own child so she can remain Queen Regent (that could be a stretch but anything is possible in GoT), 2) Tywin – he’s losing control of the sociopath, 3) Khaleesi’s uncle (can’t remember his name) – revenge for death of his sister, 4) Either the Maester or the guy they call the Spider – they’d do anything for the sake of the kingdom. I don’t think Sansa has the brains or courage to pull it off. Arya, on the other hand, could totally do it.

@ Sean: I don’t know. Cersei loves being Queen Regent. She wanted Sansa to be marry Joffrey because she could control her (I guess) but Margaery (can’t spell her name) is controlled by Mother Tyrell who is a THE richest b*tch in the West right now. You know what, maybe the cup was meant for Margaery and not Joffrey. DUN DUN DUN!!!!

Speaking of Arya, I know this isn’t in the books but I want Arya to find out Joffery is dead, ask the Hound to buy her some cheap wine or ale and to take her to the ruins of Winterfell and pour one out for her family. Not very medieval, though. Even after reading the books, I still say she should have been the one to kill him.

@Virgilia Coriolanus, Oberyn (“The Red Viper”) Martell is the brother of Elia Martell, wife of Rhaegar Targareyn, who was Danys’s oldest brother. Rhaegar was the heir to the throne after Aerys, the mad king. According to Robert Baratheon, Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna Stark, who was supposed to marry Robert, hid her in a tower and repeatedly raped her, which led to Robert’s Rebellion. Although he joined in Robert’s rebellion, Ned Stark didn’t make the same accusations when he and Robert discussed this in the first season and others throughout the books have been vague about what really happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna, with Oberyn giving a completely different version of events in Episode 1 of this season. Lyanna died in her brother Ned’s arms (offscreen and only referred to without much detail by Ned in the first book) and Ned then returned to Winterfell and Kat with baby Jon Snow. There are theories that Jon Snow is not Ned’s but actually the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, which would make him Danys’s nephew. Meanwhile, back to the Martell side, Rhaegar’s wife Elia, Oberyn’s sister, had two children, a young girl and a baby boy. When Robert killed Rhaegar in battle, the Lannisters, who had previously remained loyal to Aerys, attacked the Targaryens. Aerys was killed by Jamie Lannister. Aerys’s pregnant wife fled to Dragonstone with little Viserys and gave birth to Danys there, before dying in childbirth. Gregor Cleghane (the Mountain, brother of the Hound) an employee of Tywin Lannister, raped and killed Elia, pulled the little girl out from under a bed and killed her and smashed the baby boy against the wall, killing him. Tywin presented their bodies to Robert to show his allegiance to the new king and gave him Cersei to marry.

Believe me, Joffrey would have gotten tired of Margarey and would have started doing things to her that he had done to Sansa and then probably even worse.
I wasn’t surprised, I read the books & even if I hadn’t, they were making Joffrey way too over top loathsome for him to survive long.
Gleeson made the most of a one note role, I can’t say that I will miss Joffrey on the show, but I wish Jack Gleeson tons of luck on whatever he chooses to pursue as a career and passion in life. He seems like a really good guy.
Oberyn Martell’s sister Elia was married to Dany’s (I hate calling her that but I can’t spell her name) brother Rhaegar, so basically you could say the Martell’s were in-laws.

In regards to Khaleesi, you haven’t quite got the family thing down yet. Here’s a point by point breakdown of the show’s pretty dense background. I’m not doing this to be condescending, I’m just doing it to help as it took me a few reads/views to figure it out fully.

*Okay first of all, Khaleesi is not her real name. I don’t know whether you just call her that but her actual name is Daenerys or Dany for short. Khaleesi is the Dothraki word for queen.

*Dany’s father was the Mad King, Aerys Targaryen. Aerys was the last Targaryen king to sit on the Iron Throne. Aerys was married to his sister, Rhaella. The Targaryens openly practised incest when they ruled over the Seven Kingdoms and married brother to sister to keep bloodlines “pure”. It also resorted in quite a number of mad Targaryens.

*At the time of Robert Baratheon’s Rebellion to take the Iron Throne from the Targaryens, Aerys and Rhaella had two sons, Rhaegar and Viserys. Rhaegar was a grown man at the time while Viserys was a boy (Viserys was Dany’s insane brother who was killed in the first few episodes). Rhaella was pregnant with Dany at the time. As Rhaegar had no sisters, he married Elia Martell (Oberyn’s sister). They had two children – a young girl named Rhaenys and an infant son Aegon. So in short, Dany and Elia Martell are sister-in-laws.

*Robert’s Rebellion started when they messed with the Starks. Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna Stark (Ned’s younger sister) and he “kidnapped” her (this is Robert’s interpretation). Robert was madly in love with Lyanna. Ned’s elder brother, Brandon, who was betrothed to Catelyn Tully at the time heard about Lyanna’s kidnapping and rode to King’s Landing to confront Aerys about his son’s crime. Aerys had him imprisoned and called upon Ned’s father Rickard to ransom him. When Rickard came to King’s Landing, Aerys had Rickard burned in wildfire and made Brandon watch. He then had Brandon strangled to death.

*With his father and elder brother executed and his younger sister kidnapped, Ned became Lord of Winterfell and naturally rebelled against Aerys’ tyranny. As Ned and Robert were friends and Robert was madly in love with Lyanna, Stark and Baratheon joined together to rebel against the Targaryens. The Starks and Baratheons were joined by Jon Arryn of the Eyrie who was their foster father in their teens. They then secured an alliance with the Tullys. With Brandon dead, Catelyn was then passed down to Ned and Jon Arryn married Lysa Arryn (Catelyn’s deranged sister who was breastfeeding her eight year old kid). So Houses Stark, Arryn, Baratheon and Tully (four of the most nobles house of the Kingdoms) had rebelled against the Targaryens.

*Rhaegar ran off to Lyanna to Dorne. He left Lyanna in Dorne and went to fight the rebel forces in The Riverlands. Robert and Rhaegar engaged in one-on-one combat and Robert defeated Rhaegar.

*With Rhaegar dead; Aerys knew that he was in a vulnerable position and needed to protect his remaining heirs. He sent Viserys and his pregnant mother Rhaella alongside some loyal retainers to Dragonstone (the castle where Stannis is currently based in the show).

*With Rhaegar dead and the Targaryens lacking in armies, Tywin Lannister saw his chance and he joined with the other rebels now that victory was assured. Tywin ordered his forces to sack King’s Landing. Gregor Clegane, the Mountain (The Hound’s brother), raped and murdered Rhaegar’s wife and Oberyn’s sister Elia. He then murdered her daughter Rhaenys and dashed her son Aerys head off a wall. As we know Jaime kills Aerys when he attempts to burn King’s Landing.

*On Dragonstone, Rhaella gave birth to Daenerys in a great storm (that’s why she sometimes referred to as Daenerys Stormborn). Rhaella died in childbirth and Viserys and Daenerys were taken across the Narrow Sea to avoid assasination attempts from Robert.

*Robert Baratheon becomes King of the Seven Kingdoms. He gives Stannis Dragonstone to watch over and appoints Jon Arryn as his Hand of the King. Lyanna Stark mysteriously dies (it’s not yet explained in books or show) and Robert marries Cersei.

*The series opens with Jon Arryn’s death and Robert arriving Winterfell to make Ned his new Hand of the King.

Anyway, apologies about the nerdgasm but hopefully it clears up some confusion.

I’m up to date on the books, so I wasn’t surprised, but I did not enjoy the episode less knowing what was going to happen! I’m sad JG is retiring, bc he is a fantastic actor, and I would love to see more of him.

I’m totally the same. I’ve read all the books so I feel that I’ve already gotten as much as I can out of the “shocking” moments (I remember having to read through the red wedding scene three times before I believed I’d read it correctly).
The joy for me now is in seeing how they adapt it for the screen and trying to pick up any subtle changes they make. In fact, I usually wait until close to the end of the season to marathon it, but I read all of the recaps as the episodes air just to hear the reactions of non-book readers. It’s such a weird way to watch a TV show but I thoroughly enjoy the process.

I’ve also read the books. I could not stop thinking about the Red Wedding for weeks! Joffrey’s death seemed kind of obvious, bc everyone hated him so much. People like that don’t last long on GOT. Robb Stark was much more shocking, IMO.

I lOVE reading fan reactions. My mom, boyfriend and I all read the books together…and several other friends. Comment boards just continue my obsession!!

That is greatness. I love the show, love the books, love talking about both but I have never searched for a discussion forum so I’m thrilled when CB posts about it. I’ve been wondering why none of the Lannisters are blond now. I really noticed it when I watched a big chunk of the marathon leading up to season three. They all started out blond, but King J was the only blonde left on Sunday. It kind of bugs me. Also, watching the marathon really emphasized to me how much the child actors have grown. GRRM, write fast!

Ahaha! I don’t yell at the tv but when a gory scene comes up i just say ‘Woahhhhh’ put my hand on my mouth and get up for a short walk up and down in front of the telly.
When Jamie’s hand was cut off i did that.
When that guy took the bandage off to show rotten flesh and the bone in his arm I had to pause it and get some fresh air.
When Talisa was stabbed in the womb it was so out of the blue that I couldn’t speak.
Oh my god I love this show.
I liked Talisa… i didn’t read the books so maybe that’s why. But i can’t hate on Catylin.. even if she didn’t raise Jon as part of the family.

I have a question though… why Jon Snow was not a Stark but Joffrey commanded to get Robert Baratheon’s bastard children killed as if they had any chance of being on the Iron throne?

Because Jon is openly known to be a bastard – conceived and born when Ned was away fighting a war so pretty obvious Catelyn was not involved in that, but Joffrey and the siblings were always a secret. Robert did not know.
Remember when Ned found out about all the Baratheons having black hair in that book and then realising that’s why the old Kings hand died… and then he had to do the honorable thing and got killed for it?
Nobody’s supposed to know about the incest. The throne belongs to the Baratheons by blood, not the Lannisters. Also Lannisters are scemers, and the starks aren’t

Talisa is an HBO invention. She’s not in the book. Long held rumor is Jon Snow is a Targaryn – the bastard child of Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark, who was Ned’s sister. Ned found her murdered after Robert’s rebellion and promised to raise the newborn baby as his own. I know a few old school book fans who believe Jon will somehow be brought back and the series will end with Jon and Dany married and on the Iron Throne.

So Robb in the books doesn’t get married?
What you saying makes a lot of sense. Too bad that the show had to cut some very important moments..only if you read the book you’ll get the whole picture. When i read the Harry Potter books after watching the movies, they opened up a whole new world. I loved it. Infact i think i’ll start reading the GoT books. I can’t have enough of it.

@Megsie – I love that theory about Jon Snow. I’ve often thought Ned was too honorable to have a real illegitimate child. In the first season he and Robert Baratheon talk about Jon’s mother, and Ned says her name was Twyla. I don’t remember if that happens in the books. Also, there was a Talisa like character in the books, but she wasn’t a nurse. I can’t remember her name but the family sigil was a seashell. Lord, I’m such a nerd.

@paola-Robb in the books did get married to a different character. Talisa was invented for the show.
And if people found out that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen were products of incest-they would have no claim to the Throne, the Lannisters would be disgraced as a whole & most likely the kids and Jaime and Cersei would have all been executed.

@original kay, I liked Robb too, he was one of my favorite characters. It did not hurt that Richard Madden was terrific in the part and a feast for the eyes. But I also liked Catelyn.

@size does matter I like it too! Dany (oh lawd I do love Daenerys) had a vision in the House of the Undying of her dead brother Rhaegar naming his son Aegon and saying the “the Dragon has three heads” So the thought has been, and I think it’s worth considering, that Dany, Jon, and Rhaegar’s legitimate son with Elia(replaced by a decoy and in hiding) are the three “heads.” Also Dany said something once about perhaps having more than one husband someday.

Also, the Lyanna’s son theory would explain why Ned wouldn’t tell Jon, or anyone else, about his mother.

@Megsie – that makes total sense! I’ve been wondering about the three headed dragon. It is hard not to give anything away from the books here, and now I can’t remember what I saw on HBO and what I read. What HBO may leave out or what just hasn’t happened yet. Do you think Jon would need to be blond to be a Targaryen? Loving this discussion!!!

Jon’s hair has been discussed, yeah. Thing is, Jon is half Stark. Catelyn once said that of all Ned’s sons, Jon looked the most like him. Those who don’t buy the Lyanna theory will always cite this as proof that Ned, not Rhaegar, is Jon’s father. But Catelyn’s observation might also suggest Jon more resembles his Stark half (remember Lyanna was Ned’s sister) than his Targaryen half. ie No white hair.

@megsie, in addition to Dany’s vision, Aemon Targaryen repeatedly says: “the dragon has three heads.” Since Aemon is over 100 years old and blind in the first season, and has renounced his claim to the throne by joining the Night’s Watch, he isn’t one of the dragon heads.

Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell had two children: Aegon and Rhaenys, both of whom were theoretically murdered during the sacking of King’s Landing. The infant Aegon is described as fair, but Rhaenys had brown hair (and looked like a Martell).

That suggests the Targaryen silver hair isn’t necessarily dominant.

However, knowing GRR, it could also mean the young girl who was murdered wasn’t really Rhaegar’s child, and that the real Rhaenys is still out there somewhere.

Agree, about Aemon. There will definitely be three at the end. Or four, as I don’t think the one hidden is legit. Remember there is another family known for their silver hair – another family with a missing child. They’ll be an imposter. Varys can’t be trusted and has no allegiance to any side but his own imo. But why does he want Dany alive? Why did he warn Jorah about the assassination attempt? Believes her easily manipulated? Believes she’d make a useful military distraction? Wants her dragons? Wants her army? Illyrio repeats the “dragons has three heads” prophecy too (1st book?) so perhaps he and Varys have bought into it as well. questions questions …. At any rate there’s a reason they gave Dany they dragon eggs and not someone else. “someone else” isn’t a true Targaryen and therefore not capable of hatching dragons.

I was thinking the same.. but don’t forget Cersei is very upset now and nothing will stop her from being even more evil. So there will be even more hate for her. Theon deserved it. Cersei is evil even with the non deserving people,

I sat there greedy like a muppet as soon as he took the cup (I read the books as they were released a long time ago) and my husband was like, “What is wrong–why is he coughing? OH MAH GAWHD!…couldn’t have happened to a nicer person.”

The amount of shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaade thrown during that episode leading up to his death was AMAZING. Anybody else thing that Brienne (who seriously is my favorite, like I’m making her armor for this year’s sci-fi fantasy convention in my area and I might revolt is she or Arya bit it) gave that look to Cersi because she’s disappointed that she heard the rumors are true with Jamie or because she actually loves him?

Hmmm. I hadn’t thought about the Brienne / Cersi scene in that way, but it does make sense. The look might have been a little of both, subtle acknowledgment of her feelings and disappointment at confirmation of the rumors. Either way I’m loving the prospect of these two as foes!

It makes perfect sense for them to throw it into the show. Brienne may be 6’3 and a badarse knight but Cersi is far more ruthless. If you think about it, Brienne accepts Jamie, no hand and all (that bath scene last season omg tears) but Cersi is like, “You kind of suck now, missing a hand and all.” So it’s probably weird for her to see another woman be around Jamie even if (I think) Brienne’s still in love with Renly, dead and all and the claws came out as a defensive mechanism.

@mimif Very true. She seems to always expect the best out of people when it comes to them treated other people but not herself (if that makes any sense). The Hound spits on knights. Brienne became a knight because she wanted to more than anything. Just like Renly said (paraphrasing), “Why do I keep around? Men hang around me, want things from me; money, power, land. All Brienne wants to do is die for me.”

@MonicaQ, just to clarify (I’m totally geeking out here) my comparison of Brienne and the Hound wasn’t relegated to knightly duties per se, more that they have a single minded purpose and they are driven (bound?) to carry it out.

@mimif Oh I’m totally nerding out too, don’t worry I like the two because yes, they’re gray/grey characters but they’re doing their duty to the best of their abilities. Which is more than MOST of the other characters could say. I would personally to say at their heart they’re good people, like Ned was but not as idealistic as Ned (e.g. Brienne to Jamie, “Look me in the eye and tell me Sansa is safe in King’s Landing” and The Hound taking care of Arya).

I agree we haven’t seen Littlefinger so we know he is up to something. Also what will become of Margerie since she is rally not a queen. You know who I hate more than anyone else on this show? Stanis and Melisandre but Stannis more for being weak-minded. Cannot stand people who don’t think for themselves.

I thought Melisandra’s character came out a bit out of the blue. Her witchcraft and bitchiness seems on a different tune and out of place compared to what all the other characters have to offer. And I hope she dies soon.

Jack was excellent, especially in the death scene. He’s a terrific actor, but good for him for realizing that show business can be a shallow, meaningless existence, and wanting more for himself than fame and ego gratification.
I’m a little concerned about the way the show is mashing up storylines from the books – Jaime, for example, doesn’t actually attend Joff’s wedding, and Joff dies months before Jaime loses his hand. The way things are going, the show is going to overtake the books. GRRM needs to get ‘The Winds of Winter’ finished, and soon!
As for who killed Joffrey, remember, in GoT there are no good or bad guys; no one is who they seem to be, and even the most benevolent characters must make terrible choices in order to survive. This ain’t ‘Lord of the Rings.’

I think he already let the producers know how it ends just in case he pulls a Robert Jordan but I do see the show over taking the books soon. How they handle “Dance of Dragons” will be beyond me because— ::garrote wires self right before spoilers::

minor pet peeve @ CB- It’s totally acceptable/cool to say you’re a huge fan of the GoT show on HBO. However, I think it’s a stretch whenever I see anyone on the internet or real life claim to be the most hard-core and a HUGE GoT fan and they haven’t read the books.

I think it’s better to qualify it with “I’m a huge fan of the GoT HBO show” rather than the series.

Also, this is how I operate with LOTR as well. I’m a fan of the movies but never was able to get through the books so I always make it a point to say “I’m a huge fan of the movies but haven’t gotten around to the books.”

:shrugs: may seem like a minor point to make but i’m sure those of you who are enthusiastic about the books and have been following for the last decade or more can’t be thrilled about HBO watchers claiming to be the “biggest GoT fans” esp. when they’ve not even experienced GoT as a book!

I usually notice a difference when they say “A Song of Ice and Fire” and I’m like, “BOOKS! /confetti nipples!”

I get it though, I was (and still am!) kinda grump about people going, “OMG I AM SUCH A TREKKIE! KIRK IS SOOOOOO HAWT! But the old Star Trek was boring and people talked too much” and it’s like, “Seriously, you watched because of Benedict what’s his face and Chris Pine. Also this movie is full of more plot holes than a colander holding swiss cheese. You really have no concept of what Star Trek was supposed to be, do you?”

I hate to be that way a bit because when I go buy comic books, the guys at the counter did the something similar to “check and see if I was a real nerd” (black and female will get you “checked” at everything) to which I replied, “I’ve been reading Marvel since I was 6 and those “movie fans” you sneer about? They’re the reason Marvel and DC are no longer floundering so you should thank them. This isn’t just your tree house.” It’s just the first I see as willfully dismissing the material (which Celebitchy didn’t do, she tried reading it) and the second is exclusive club-ism.

@original kay- next time, just save yourself the extra keystrokes and go along your day saving that delightful (not) snark for someone else. I’m sure those who have to interact with you will have the displeasure of some extra snark.

P.S- thanks for the hobby tip. tell me, how’s it working out snarking anonymous people on the internet? I’m trying your method here and hm, it kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth so I’ll never be doing it again.

Plus, the books are a thousand times better, because the reader gets a better sense of what the characters are thinking and feeling. Kit Harington gets a bad rap on this site for his portrayal of Jon Snow, but the fact is, Harington’s pretty much on target. Snow doesn’t say or do much up to now – he lives in his head – but in the books, it’s clear from his thoughts that he’s a young man with a strong sense of right and wrong, who feels like he doesn’t belong anywhere, and wonders where he can fit in. He never says these things out loud mind you, and the character speaks very little. When you’re raised by a stepmother who openly despises you, your self esteem takes a beating. His life is basically centered on fear and disillusionment, and keeping his thoughts to himself just to survive, which I think Harington has communicated pretty well. Jon Snow is not a dynamic, exciting, effusive character (at least not yet) so how could the actor portray him that way?

The books are so much better, just because they are so rich in language and there’s so many MORE characters and MORE details (actually that might be a turn-off). Celebitchy, I don’t know anyone who did not struggle through the first part of book one. But, eventually, you hit a threshold where you get it and the series is just so damn satisfying after that.

I think what often gets lost in this whole “well I was listening to/watching the original/reading the books BEFORE you” is that quite often it’s the secondary property (ie the “Game of Thrones” TV show) will lead people to discovering the primary property (the books in this case). Quite honestly, I would’ve had no idea these books existed without the TV show as fantasy simply isn’t my wheelhouse at all. But now I do know about them and I am such a fan, I will read the books at some point just so I can say I’ve read them.

Similar sitch with the Marvel side of things. I never touched a comic as a kid but I’m an obsessive fan of the movies and I work with some cool guys who’ve given me some good recommendations so I’ve making my way slowly through things there.

I completely understand wanting to “stake your claim” but I’ve always viewed being a true fan as wanting to share the thing/people/band/whatever that you love with other people, you know?

The only time when I get annoyed about this when I accidentally spoil something in a random conversation (I don’t do spoilers if people say they haven’t read the books, or we are talking about the tv show and they aren’t caught up, or on facebook) The books came out 14 years ago, I get there’s now a show on and not everyone read the book, but I’m not going to tiptoe around it in daily life.

The same thing happened when I randomly dropped the ending of Citizen Kane into a conversation and someone blew up at me that they hadn’t seen it and now I’ve ruined it forever. The movie came out in 1941. You’ve had time.

@MonicaQ, @Kali, and @L Thank you for adding to my point and making some really good points as well!

@Kali- I absolutely agree! I am a true fan and I love sharing. I’ve been that way about any series that I’m obsessive about including Harry Potter, GoT, comic books for Marvel etc. I encourage and usually never correct people when they claim to be big huge fans but I definitely think it to myself mostly because I can’t imagine calling myself a die-hard fan of anything if I haven’t really experienced it in the way the author or creator wanted the story or narrative to be conveyed. So when I talk about Batman I make it clear I’m a fan of the Nolan adaptation, not a “BIG BATMAN fan!” because it implies I’ve followed the comic book narrative and I haven’t.

@epiphany- I agree 100% with the Jon Snow assessment as well. I think the books do such a good job of conveying why a character is motivated, how they’re molded, what their upbringing and history leads to them being or not being a certain way. I 1000% agree that the books really explain Jon through his thoughts but he does and says very little. Other than a voiceover, how can that be brought to life on the screen?

That attitude seems a bit possessive to me. No offense intended. I’m a fan of the LOTR books but not of the films really, though they are okay and I really enjoyed the first one, and I love the show GOT but I gave up halfway through the first book as I just couldn’t warm up to the writing.
But if you ask me, I don’t consider people who prefer the LOTR films to the books any lesser fans of Tolkien’s work than me. They just prefer another interpretation of it.
I think the only person who can properly say to someone “you’re not a real fan of this” is the author. No one else owns the work or the privilege to judge other people’s investment in it.

Read the books too, but, without giving anything coming away, Danys’s wedding (“a Dothraki wedding is a failure unless at least three people die”) and the Red Wedding and now this one should be a strong indicator not to attend a wedding in Westeros.

thank you for posting about book spoliers. Some comments on other sites are truly horrible; the book readers really diss the TV show watchers.
It’s pretty much 2 different stories anyway, like the Star Trek reboot. Alternate universe- same characters, slightly different outcomes.

I read the books, loved them (though I agree somewhat about the writing style). By not reading you don’t get dragged into the subplot hell that a lot of the chapters are.

I am so sorry for Tiryon and Shae. I really love Shae and I hope they’ll meet again. I would have wanted to see Joffrey tortured and suffer more than he did.. but I guess him being the king was not possible. Too quick of a death for such a sadistic son of a bitch.
The character I despise the most though is Cercei. Joffrey was stupid and an imbecile, but she is clever and she slithers like a snake.
I guess Tiryon is innocent. I blame the Tyrell family. Maybe Oleanna or Margaery herself. She passed the cup with the wine to her. Maybe her grandmother put poison in it and she handed it over to Joffrey? I don’t think Sansa is brave enough to do such thing as poison the king.
And of course Roose Bolton. He’s really a psycopath. I hope he’ll get what he deserves.

I hated Sansa in the beginning of the series, but now I feel sorry for her. I also disliked Tyrion and Jamie but like them both now. At one point I was even sympathetic to Cersei but not now! I love how GRRM has characters evolve. My least favorite at this point, probably Theon Greyjoy and Ramsey Snow. Arya is my forever favorite.

Every time someone tries to tell me, “But Cersi is just mama bear and wants to defend her children!” I’m like, “Oh, the ones she had with her twin brother and now they’re effed in the head because of inbreeding because it’s not like they didn’t KNOW that could’ve been a symptom after the Targayrens, no. Not at all. And then she props up the unstable bastard on the throne, kills her husband (who, yes, is an arse), and torments Tyrion who pretty much the ONLY likable character in Kings Landing. Yeah, no.”

I’ve never actually heard anyone defend Cersei but I love your story. Did you know Cersei & Bronn used to date IRL? And *allegedly* they have to be kept apart on set due to bad blood. Oh, the humanity…

In the first season (I can’t remember if this is in the book, Cersei is more sympathetic when watching Robert fool around with every available serving wench. Also, she talks to Catelyn when Bran is unconscious about losing her first born son, and I think she describes him with dark hair, meaning he was a legitimate Baratheon. Robert never wanted her. He always pined for Lyanna. Did Lyanna run off with the Targaryen? Or was she kidnapped? I can’t remember if the books explain that part.

The events regarding Rhaegar and Lyanna are left deliberately ambiguous in both the show and the books. Robert believes she was kidnapped. Ned is very stoic on the matter. Even when we read chapters from his perspective, we only read about him remembering Lyanna’s last moments which again are left quite ambiguous.

@MonicaQ

To be fair, Joffrey’s younger siblings, Myrcella and Tommen haven’t shown the instability that Joffrey has. Daenerys is a product of incest too…and well…she’s stable for the most part. Not that I’m defending incest or Cersei particularly but damn if this show/book series doesn’t make you question your own morals when you can sympathise with a husband murdering paranoid psychopathic queen and her narcissistic twin brother who pushes children out windows and kills his own cousin.

@Kelly

Sansa begins the show aged 13. She’s probably somewhere between 14 and 16 in the current series. Sansa in the books is actually 11 when events begin. I never really get the Sansa and Catelyn hate. They’re flawed characters for sure but on the morality scale, I think they lean closer to the good side.

And I don’t hate Sansa and Catelyn because they’re good, I hate them because they’re bloody stupid. Catelyn particular was arrogant, stubborn and dumb. Actually every single Stark is dumb and it’s no wonder they ended up dead. I mean them surviving would’ve been a real fantasy tale. The only smart one is Arya.

I love this show because it’s realistic in the sense that good doesn’t win. Intelligence and resourcefulness do. Anyone rooting for the “good-leaning” characters to win in the end is deluded and frankly missing the point of the story, in my humble opinion anyway.

You say Sansa’s dumb, but she’s managed to play the game and stay alive. In her position, where she is the daughter of a traitor and a political prisoner, that is NOT due to dumb luck. Sansa is a lot smarter than you give her credit for.

Sansa’s problem is that her direwolf was killed. She is lost and adrift and defenseless without her direwolf. To kill Robb, the Freys also had to kill Grey Wind, his direwolf. Arya’s direwolf, Nymeria, was set free, has developed a pack, and is terrorizing the countryside, killing people, much like Arya herself.

I don’t get the Sansa hate, she’s just a pawn with no control over her fate, up to this point. As for Catelyn, she put in motion everything that happened to her family. She sent Ned to King’s Landing because of Lysa’s letter, she took Tyrion captive, she stupidly believes Littlefinger. The list goes on and on and on.

Sansa survived due to luck more than due to her own intelligence. If other people hadn’t had sympathy towards her and hadn’t helped her in crucial moments she wouldn’t be alive today.
I am talking about the show of course, I haven’t read the books so I’m not judging her character there.
Compared to everyone else around her, Sansa is dumb. It’s even more painful when you see her younger sister Arya, who had the brains to figure out what’s what from the start, even before sh*t started to go down.
I’m sorry, but with people like Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, Littlefinger, etc. around, the Starks appear in comparison as really lacking in self-preserving logic and brains.

I’m really disappointed that Joffrey is gone. He was completely insane and that was pretty fascinating to watch someone unravel like that.
On the other hand, he was cruel to my Tyrion, so he got what he deserved. Tyrion Lannister is my secret lover.

That ep was insane, and I loved every minute! I wish Jack the best and thank him for a great performance as King Somebody-Effing-Kill-Him-Already.

And thanks for the no spoiler rule. I don’t understand why people get such joy out of doing that. As if the non-readers have been waiting a whole year to have some random assclown *tell* us what’s about to happen instead of watching it for ourselves. Gah!

I agree with you. I had someone completely spoil the Red Wedding for me and I was not happy. I was only a couple of episodes away from it when this person who read the books blurted out what was going to happen.

I would advise staying away from all Game of Thrones related media on the web to avoid spoilers, especially Facebook and YouTube. I don’t understand the glee book readers get in spoiling things for others. I’m a massive fan of the novels but I’m one of the few people within my social group whose read the books and one of the great joys for me is watching my unspoiled friends reactions.

And the “Read the books” and “It’s been out 18 years” argument is a ridiculous one too. First of all, these are dense complex novels and they can be difficult to get into so the books are not for everyone even if the show in a visual medium is a little easier to follow. If you think the show is bad, read a Daenerys chapter where she meets Kraznys mo Kraznys, Arstan Whitebeard, Belwas, Hizdahr zo Loraq and then read the next Dany chapter about 200 pages later and find yourself thinking “Hang on who are these guys again?” and “Should I care if this minor character, whose name is ringing a bell but I can’t remember his function, should I care if he’s dead?” Secondly, people will get round to reading it when they have a chance to do so. I watched the first season unspoiled back in 2011 and was so blown away by the final two episodes that I knew I had to read these books to fill up my time until Season 2 almost a year later. I’m glad I wasn’t unspoiled in the first season because it was such a blast.

@Sean – I agree. I’ve read all of the books, some more than once, and seen all of the episodes, some more than once, and it impossible to keep everything and everyone and everywhere straight. And if you go back you pick up things that didn’t seem significant the first time. Safer just not to click on the story.

Also, thank you for your explanation up thread. There is plenty of ambiguity to speculate about without giving spoilers away.

I haven’t read the books, but my friends have, so I’m pretty up to speed on who is still alive by the end of book 5 and who isn’t. That said, even though I knew it was coming, it was entirely satisfying and awesome to watch. It was only a tad spoiled by that annoying Cersei whining and reacting in the stupidest way possible. I think it’s even clear to Jaime that Tyrion did NOT do it.
But whatever, that woman has been annoying me to no end for the past 3 seasons, I can’t wait till something happens to her as well.

The success of this shows means we get ‘American Gods’. And I would follow Neil Gaiman to the center of the earth. As mellow dramatic as it sounds, that book saved my life and I’d love to see it on screen.

I will not read the comments to avoid spoilers, because apparently it starts immediately with one. What is it with people that can’t respect this?

I watched the episode yesterday also and I couldn’t really believe it. I actually asked about 10 times to my boyfriend if it was really true (he read the books). I will not miss the character but I will miss the actor. He depicted this hateful personality so well and it was really interesting how he would come across as a nice, interesting person in interviews. Hope he reconsiders the acting career.

A coworker and her husband read the books, and I was spoiled before the series, so I know whodunit, but I don’t really KNOW, ya know? Anyway, I loved the episode because you can’t really tell who’s the most likely to be guilty. Every single person at that table (besides Cersei) would and could poison Joffrey. Margaery, Olenna, Mace, Sansa, Tyrion, Tywin, and Dontos are all suspects. In the crowd, the Martell group, Loras, hell even Jaime could be suspected. Throw in all of Kings Landing to be safe. Oh and Varys and Baelish because that should always be an option… Can’t wait to see more!!!

Line of Succession??????
I will admit that I even googled the British line of succession to find an answer to this. But since the King died on their wedding day and their are no heirs, does that mean that Margery is queen? Or does Cersei go back to being queen? Or (please God) does the King Slayer get a shot at it? I’m so confused?!?!? Damn my American education!!! This is important stuff I should have learned in grade school! That stupid periodic table hasn’t helped me once in my whole life

Also, I haven’t read the books and I don’t have any insider information but if we are guessing on who killed him; after hours of discussion (when I should have been working) I’ve narrowed it down to Sansa’s little jester, Tywin Lannister or Cersei herself.

Technically, it *should* fall to Stannis and Cersi should be Queen Regent again (at least that’s the case he would make). Joffery’s younger sister could make a push as well (being the next child, she does have a claim) but that won’t work either as she is…away. Jamie is inelgible as he is part of the Kingsguard and Tywin wouldn’t take the throne because he is the Hand (he doesn’t want to die also). But like Margery’s grand-mama gonna stand for that; she is OG gangsta pimp hand proper around King’s Landing and that was made perfectly clear that episode.

Thanks MonicaQ !
So do you think that Tywin knew about the death before it happened and that’s why he wanted Jamie to resign from the King’s Guard?!?
And where does that leave Margery and all their money?

I can’t decide what I like more, the actual show or the conversations after

Twyin is all about protecting the family name–it’s why he let Tyrion live in the first place. Killing him also would cause a master cluster so it would be a poor idea. But he definitely wants Jamie married off so he can stop boinking his sister and he can produce an heir.

If Margery pulls her support, it’d look miiiiiiiighty suspicious. So… ::shoves head in bucket of water to prevent spoilers::

I think the crown now goes to Joffrey’s brother. Joffrey was king so the throne should go to his nearest heir, which is not his paternal uncle. Plus I really doubt Cersei killed Joffrey, she loved him despite everything and she would have never in a million years done that. Same thing for Tiwyn. He wanted the family name to be forever and just for this reason he would have never killed his grandson without having another heir ready for the throne,
I haven’t read the books but I’m pretty sure Grandma Tyrell has something to do with it. She seems such a clever woman, she probably wanted to spare her granddaughter a life of torture and unhappiness. She saw what Joffrey did to Sansa and I can see Lady Tyrell wanting to protect Margery

Tommen is 8 in the books. They recast the actor this year (he had a non-speaking role in this episode, he was laughing at the dwarf joust but stopped when he seen Tyrion’s reaction) and the actor is in his early teens.In the books at least, the age of adulthood is 16.

Can we have more Jon Snow now? They killed off Robb Stark, who was my fav to drool over & Drogos, who was also pretty hot – I’ll be so sad if they kill off Jon. I don’t usually get hung up on characters like that, but GoT has some nice looking guys.

Kit Harington might not be my favorite actor on the show, but if Jon gets killed off, I will seriously be upset. I don’t think I could take more Stark deaths, honestly.

Just adding, that Robb Stark (Richard Madden) was my major eye candy too. It takes Oberyn, Jaime and Jon to make up the slack for me and even that’s not enough (ha-ha). Jenna Coleman is one girl with some serious good taste in men!

Eye-candy for everyone! That said, personally I’m mega-disappointed with the Oberyn casting. He’s waaaaaaay sexier in the book. Damn miscasting and miscostuming. Wasted potential for the hottest male GoT character yet.

As a long time book reader (read book 1 in 2000 when the third book was released) I’ve almost completely given up on the show. All the best most epic scenes from books have been bastardized and watered down, crucial character relationships altered. I didn’t even bother with the wedding episode. And from what book readers have told me I didn’t miss much

You honestly didn’t. I’m a book reader, and I was severely disappointed. They keep throwing in things from book 4 and in my opinion they’ve basically given away who (might of, because the books aren’t clear) killed Joffrey.

I thought it was pretty clear who kills him–it seems to be fairly common knowledge among book-readers. There’s a MASSIVE red flag clue in there that’s hard to miss. I will say no more because spoilers.

People and their Game of Thrones BOOK elitism is so annoying, get over it, people can say they’re a fan of Game of Thrones without qualifying they only watch the show. I wouldn’t dream of reading those books but the show is good.

Anyways hopefully this isn’t a spoiler, but I’ve looked up book spoilers online and it’s my impression that the author of the novels has NOT revealed who killed Joffrey yet, nobody knows. Am I wrong – yes, no?

LOL, it’s even funnier since GRRM himself writes for the show and is a producer.
I especially love it when people complain of “them” not following the books – “them” being the man who wrote the books in the first place, haha.

I have read the books and I enjoy them. I do think the show is as faithful as they possibly can be to the books. Some storylines have to be streamed for time, they cannot fit in everything and the story is also streamlined for budget. They could not show Robb Stark in battle because of the budget, for example. The showdown that Ned and Jaime had in season 1, that was in broad daylight? It happened at night in the books-they could not film it that way because it would have been too hard to make out what was going on. It’s just impossible to bring the book to life word for word. And some things that work in the books just don’t work as well on television.
The show is a good show and I think fans are fans whether or not they just enjoy the show or just enjoy the books or enjoy both.

It is revealed in the books who killed Joffrey. It’s not explicitly stated outright who did it but it’s there if you read between the lines. I’m a big fan of the show. I think it’s one of the best adaptations I’ve seen but subtlety is not its strong point whereas the books challenge the reader more. So in the show, I’m sure we’ll be hit over to the head as to who killed Joffrey.

I got the impression it was the pie that was poisoned (I didn’t read the books). It would be careless to poison the wine because it would be obvious who did it. He was the only one to eat the pie (I guess the king does first)…. We will find out if the poor dogs die from eating the leftovers.

I love, love, love GOT! Don’t read the books but have an especially spoiler prone in-law who likes to tell me book spoilers after a few glasses of chardonnay, no matter how much I plead, still I did not know this was coming!

I hoped and wished for Joffrey to get his comeuppance, I loved the scene but now I can’t help but feel a sense of loss for that character and Jack Gleeson,

I have seen him around Dublin and you really do get the sense he just isn’t into being a celebrity. It may be his biggest acting credit and his last but well done sir you did good!

I don’t think they’re changing Shae’s storyline too much. It ends up being a really key turning point for two other characters, and I don’t think any other person could inspire those actions. My guess is that she’s not in Pentos and that we’ll end up seeing her again toward the end of this season.

I think you are wrong about sansa because joffrey had been experiencing the symptoms of the poison prior to sansa grabbing the cup. I remember that he spit/drooled really bad as he was laughing at the little people show. I remember being grossed out and wondering if they had put his drool/spit in the scene to emphasize how much he enjoyed tourturing his uncle. Now i feel like the spit was a symptom of the poison.

Check it out. It happens when he’s laughing at the little people show. Please, after u spot it, come back and tell if u think the drool is a result of joffrey laughing hysterically or of him being poisoned.

I have read the books but my husband hasn’t, so it was fun for me to watch his surprise. Then the Twitter reaction was hilarious with the jokes about how everyone gets choked up at weddings. Along with the fabulous acting I just have to rave about the opening map. I love that thing and watching it along with the beautiful music will never get old to me.

I’m glad that evil, incest-bred creep got what was coming to him. It was long overdue. I wish Sansa did it; it would be nice to have the least-likely Stark “send her regards”. Payment in kind for what happened to Robb, Talisa and Catelyn at the Red Wedding; and a big payback for Eddard “Ned” Stark. Getting the popcorn, butter and the Big Gulp for Cersei’s fall; she’s next.

And the series producers do make subtle changes too. For example: Robb’s wife did not attend the Red Wedding in the books. There were subtle changes in the Purple Wedding too but won’t go into detail because “spoilers.”

I’m scared as shit to venture in here, but here goes. I’ve been madly cackling everywhere I go since Sunday. It was just so damn satisfying. I’ve been cackling to myself at work so much that I’m starting to scare coworkers.

I keep seeing Margaery feeding Joffrey the pie, while not eating any herself.

No idea if that means anything – have not and won’t read the books. Once I’ve read a book, i cant watch the movie/show based on that book because it never measures up to the book. So I do one or the other.

*sighs* I wanted to like the books so much, started reading the first novel two times and gave up =( And I normally enjoy various writing styles, including stuff that many find long-winded or weird, like Gabriel Garcia Marquez or Joyce or, dunno, Kafka. But I simply can’t get into Martin’s writing style, no matter how hard I try. It fails to engage me. Which is sad. Oh well, will have to continue watching the show lol

@ Intro: If you decide to try again: the writing style really picks up after a while. I started reading the books a couple months ago and I was grinding my teeth through the first chapters. Any other book I would have quit, but I was really curious to get more background on the show’s characters & world. There is a lot of clumsy exposition shoe-horned into the first part and also the Stark POVs are not the most cheerful or nuanced (for me), but once the basics are established it does get a lot better very soon actually.

I think the show set up 3 or possibly 4 distinct possibilities. And knowing the show doesn’t always mirror the book, I wouldn’t be too worried about the books. From what I’ve heard, they’re pretty vague. I don’t see the show leaving this open-ended.

1. Sansa had something to do with it, but was also an unwitting participant. The jester who ushers her away gave her a necklace, and seems to know what’s up….she senses danger but she didn’t deliberately do it.

2. Because Grandma Tyrell did, I think. She’s extremely protective of Sansa, and admires the necklace before removing one of the jewels…..hmmm….. Not to mention her genius line, “Who kills a man at a wedding, though?” Plus there’s some pretty heavy-handed placement of the goblets, wine, jewels, etc. in relation to her in the scene.

3. Oberyn. He’s been waiting to pay back his revenge, and he’s conspicuously calm in the audience.

4. Cersei meant to poison someone else….likely Margaery, because she’s unhappy with her placement in the hierarchy now. She was always going to frame Tyrion. (that’s my least convincing theory)