Friday, May 25, 2018

Jewjitsu

On The Daily Shoah the big-brained Z-Manbrought up an important question white identitarians have to find a satisfactory answer to--are based Jews part of Heritage America or always potential wolves in sheep's clothing? Mike Enoch's dodgy reply was that they are not, they have to go back to Israel, and Israel can suffer the same fate as the Kingdom of Jerusalem when the US abandons it just as Europe abandoned the crusader states.

Okay, there's a lot editorial license in that characterization. Take a listen if it sounds interesting. It was the first time I'd heard TDS. It's not my cup of tea. I have trouble staying interested in meandering conversations full of digressions and putatively humorous gags if I'm not part of said conversations. That's what personal meet-ups are for. Podcasts need more focus and structure.

The TDS guys assert Jews are not white. According to the GSS, 95% of Jews in the US do self-identify racially as white. That doesn't necessarily mean they fit the TDS definition of white, but rather than encouraging them to try to remain honorary non-whites, we should be letting everyone know--especially genuine non-whites--that Ashkenazi Jews are whites and that Jewish privilege is white privilege on steroids.

Rather than trying to go Hadrian or Hitler on them, my (naive?) hope is that they'll start to join us. Whites--both Jews and Gentiles--are declining as a percentage of the population in the West. Gentiles slowly, Jews more rapidly. It's not only God who makes no distinction between Jew and Greek. The Global South won't, either.

Something the TDS guys don't address is the impending dilution and eventual disappearance of non-Orthodox Jewry in the US (and probably in Europe, too). Nearly 3-in-4 non-Orthodox Jews now marry non-Jews, and as shown subsequently, non-Orthodox Jewish fertility is well below replacement.

If you're 2% of the population, most of your members are marrying into the other 98% of the population, and you don't replace yourselves, your days as a distinct group are numbered.

The following table shows mean number of children among Jews by "what sort of Jew" respondents are from the GSS. To obtain the largest sample possible (Jewish n = 578), survey responses extend back from 1988 through 2016. Given the general decline in US fertility over that period of time, these fertility figures are overstated relative to contemporary ones, yet non-Orthodox Jews still come in under two children per. For comparative purposes, mean numbers of children of white, black, and "other" respondents are also included. Responses are restricted to those at least 35 years of age to allow time for family formation to have occurred:

Group

Kids

Orthodox Jews

2.53

Conservative Jews

1.97

Reform Jews

1.87

Whites

2.25

Blacks

2.76

Others

2.70

Parenthetically, recently I took a look at the apparent decline in IQ among America's diluted Jewish population over the last several decades. Another possible contributing factor is that while Orthodox Jews are more fecund than non-Orthodox Jews, they're also less intelligent. Mean IQ converted from Wordsum scores assuming a white mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 is 102.3 for Orthodox Jews, 110.5 for Conservative Jews, and 109.3 for Reform Jews.

38 comments:

Anonymous
said...

I feel that outcome of this debate heavily relies on assumption that non-Orthodox Jews are marrying out to the extent that they will completely disappear within a few generations and I am not sure that is completely true.

Consider this article: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23455539?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents which claims that Jewish intermarriage rate in America has actually declined and then stabilized since the 1990s.

The author, Bruce Phillips, gives another side of the story and according to him Jews remain the most endogamous group in America and that Jewish intermarriage rate has been overstated due to misleading methodology.

In my opinion, the talk of sky-high intermarriage rate was probably spread by rabbis eager deter other Jews from marrying-out and it seems that it worked.

So, I think that hopes of Jews totally assimilating and stopping to be our enemies might be unrealistic.

After all, we are talking about tribe that survived more than 3000 years. I find it hard to believe that they will go in the night that easily.

Jews are reflexively Anti-White. Whites are a threat to them. They know Whites built the West. The Western View of freedom and anti-slavery violates their childish fantasies of 2800 dark skinned slaves serving each and every one of their kind. The Babylonian Talmud. The Ancient Evil Empire of Babylon crushed and destroyed Ancient Israel. Looks to me that most of these "Jews" are actually neo-Babylonians. They do not follow Moses or believe in God.Like Jesus says in the Book of Revelation. They are of their Father the Devil, he was a liar and murderer from the beginning. They are The Synagogue of Satan. How many ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN GOD?

I'm not sure if he's ever stated it in that way exactly, but I think the Kevin MacDonald take on Jewish intermarriage (and by extension, the TDS take) is that it will simply lead to the dispersal of the values of the Jews into the white population. So in this future where liberal Jew elites have disappeared due to intermarriage, they will have been replaced by a white elite (with distant Jewish ancestry) that is functionally indistinguishable from them. It's Charles Murray's cognitive elite as described in The Bell Curve and Coming Apart, somehow made more sinister by having a Jewish grandparent or great-grandparent in the mix.

I'm skeptical of the viability of such a model for "eternal Jewish domination", but if you squint hard enough you can maybe see such a thing in the United Kingdom, where distant Jewish ancestry seems common among elites (eg David Cameron), while the actual living Jews left behind are an increasingly conservative Orthodox rump.

In general, there's a precedent for the narrative in which the rulers and the ruled in a particular nation are ostensibly ethnically identical, but are in fact different due to some ancient ethnic admixture. For example, to use the example of Britain again, the English Civil War (Cavaliers vs Roundheads) is described by some as a kind of sublimated Norman vs Saxon conflict, an old ethnic animus re-emerging centuries after the Battle of Hastings. Some describe the American Civil War (South vs North) in the same way.

I'm a TDS listener and it can be thought of as the alt right version of a morning zoo radio station. Even though Mike Enoch takes himself seriously (a little too seriously a little too often), it's supposed to be more humorous takes on our western decline.

The meme they bring up where they say Jews aren't white is playing off how some people in the tribe keep flipping back and forth between being white and not being white when it suits themselves. One popular alt right meme is "my fellow white people", which have some pretty egregious examples of Jews on social media who can't seem to decide if they're white or not.

However even TDS is NAJALT, where they agree that the guy who sells you a bagel and lox at a deli is not the same as Barbara Spectre but they are disproportionally against white people where it is a serious concern to the safety and well being of the first world. I wouldn't have a problem with the tribe if so many of them didn't hate me and my people so much. Many on the alt right are of the same opinion but many of them also believe that this problem can't be abridged and anyone can take a review of the articles on The Daily Forward and can quickly reach the same conclusions.

the fertility rate of the orthodox Jews seems too low and that of the reformist Jews too high (the same as for the blacks), I think that in that picture the non-religious Jews are missing (according to pew they are 23% of the Jews ), which has a fertility rate of 1.4

Ok, so the best way to get rid of a poison that is killing the village is to dump it in the well?

Jewish behavior is genetic and seems to be dominant. A lot of half and even quarter Jews act like typical Jews and identify as Jewish. It's basically like saying the best way to end black criminality is to breed with them and hope recessive genes somehow win the battle.

At this point, with all the data available, anyone who claims "it's not the Jews" or "it's only the bad-Jews" is being disingenuous. You can have Western Civilization or Jews, but not both.

White? If so, then so are Gypsies, Chechens, Turks, Arabs, and Iranians.

Part of the historic American nation? Absolutely not. They showed up in significant numbers only after 1880, after all the hard work of creating this nation was completed - and unlike other late arrivals such as the Poles, Jews have been waging ethnic warfare against real Americans since the day they got off the boat.

Intermarriage? IHTG is on the right track with his comment above. After two generations of intermarriage, instead of one Trotsky you will have four Lenins proud of their Jewish grandparent and contemptuous of the host people.

Liberal and Orthodox Jews fundamentally different? Nope. Sky high ethnocentrism defines both groups - which is why it isn't unusual for the son of an ultra-orthodox rabbi to be a Trotskyite, Freudian etc. The universalistic pose of the Culture of Critique is a sham, every bit as much motivated by ethnocentrism as Orthodox welfare scams, organ smuggling etc.

Israel ultimately doomed like the Crusader States before it? Not with a 300 warhead nuclear arsenal, replacement level birthrate, strongly defended border fence, and nationalist / religious culture they aren't.

Alliance with Jews against "the Global South"? Insidious proposal. It would lead to a state of affairs in which multicultural USA is divided between two ethnic blocks, White and non-White, with Jews in the middle playing the role of kingmakers, siding sometimes with the Whites and sometimes with the non-Whites, always securing Jewish interests - in other words, permanently surrendering power into the hands of the one group which is most hostile to old stock White Americans.

I like the idea of a "nationalist rainbow coalition". The territory of the United States belongs to the tribes who underwent ethno-genesis here. This includes White Americans (descendants of the colonial era White population of the 13 colonies, and the subsequent White immigrants who utterly assimilated to them), Black Americans (descendants of the pre-1860 slaves and free blacks of the USA, and subsequent Black immigrants who utterly assimilated to them), the various north-of-the-Rio-Grande American Indian tribes, Hawaiians, and Eskimos. These tribes may not like each other, but they have a common interest in defending themselves from the exploitation of diaspora peoples. In policy terms, this would entail an immigration moratorium, a non-interventionist foreign policy, balanced trade, let the states decide social issues, maximum tax burden on the disproportionately Jewish and Asian 1% (and tax cuts for the disproportionately old stock 99%), and quotas to ensure the various old-stock tribes receive a fair share of federal jobs.

Crucially, I think this approach has a better chance of making old-stock White American identitarianism more palatable for White American liberals. They will NEVER have any part of politics which they think is unfair to Blacks and American Indians. Their self esteem and identity is strongly based on the idea that they are "good Whites" who give a fair shake to Blacks and Indians, unlike their horrible ancestors or those horrible "bad White" Americans in the Bible Belt. Ultimately, White American liberals are NOT the "enemy". They are our family. Their ancestors and ours have been through a lot together in the past 411 years. It behooves us to take their moral scruples seriously. Ganging up with Jews and Northeast Asians to hold down the Black man, in a sort of high-IQ supremacism, will NOT appeal to their moral sensibilities.

Below the eternal fate of men;We must rule ourselves or die. We will have to fight.===================

Back to names not groups; go for the group and miss the names. They'll regroup and kill you.On the other hand hit the names the group is leaderless and will run.The group will basically run anyway. This group in particular.===================Back to eternal fate of men: sooner or later you must fight for survival and after that to keep or have anything decent whether it be property or political arrangements. We have to fight for what's ours, we have to fight for our own. Happened before and will always happen. Stop fighting and you die. That's not Nazi or even Darwin it's man's fate.

I've been listening to TDS since July 2015. I've always felt that they weren't really a podcast in the way Radio Derb or the Zman power hour is. It's more like a morning radio show (think Howard Stern or Opie and Anthony). Lots of hilarious skits, parody songs and soundboard drops (carl from aqua teen being their favorite).

Israel might as well be run by Dr. Evil. That Samson Option is just the James Bond SPECTRE nuclear blackmail. This stupid fantasy that this pissant "country" the size of New Jersey will stand up to 1.2 BILLION angry Muslims reminds me of the cock and bull story of 3 against a thousand. Nukes huh? They'll nuke the world if you attack them. They might as well be SPECTRE. Even Jews ADMIT they don't plan to fight. This idea of "you and him" fight is reaching the White Genocide phase where the Golem turns on Dr. Frankenstein. The Golem Legend doesn't have a Happy Ending Sport.

In yesterdays Irish vote, the Poz option got a higher turnout and a higher percentage of the vote than it did 3 years ago. My fears of a "generational eclipse" appear confirmed again.

Exit polls indicate something like a 9-1 vote in favor of poz among the under 30.

The people everywhere are drinking out of the same Hollywood bilge, lectured by the same CultMarx teachers, and partaking in the same consumerism. Prison Planet Paul is wrong when he claims that we are the counter-culture. But we damn well need to be. No one needs to be buying Starbucks, Apple, Disney and Sportsball. All of that is luxury product that is mutilating our once glorious culture.

Francis and his fellow clerics also need some introspection here, but instead they will double down on more capitulation to modernity. And at the same time they won't clean up their own house.

The thought then is that there is some sort of boiling off happening, then, where the Jews who are marrying non-Jews tend not to be full Jews to begin with?

John Chrysostom,

I'd appreciate it if the 2% made some sort of effort to refute you. Something. Anything.

IHTG,

It's an explanation, I guess. That our WASP elite was able to be so easily steamrolled in the 20th century and are apparently just as susceptible to being steamrolled by an 8% genetic contribution in the future is depressing. That doesn't mean it's inaccurate, just depressing.

Random Dude,

the tribe keep flipping back and forth between being white and not being white when it suits themselves

Tim Wise is a perfect example of this. To be generous, though, it does seem like the ones who this the most are not "single ancestry" Jews. IIRC, Wise has one Jewish grandparent.

DreamEater,

Keep in mind those figures extend all the way back to the late 80s and include people, long since dead, who were in their 80s and 90s then. So it includes some people who were making babies in the 30s and 40s. Contemporary TFR for all groups (except for possibly Orthodox Jews) has declined since then.

Anon,

That's the crux of the matter--how strong is the "poison"? Take a chlorine pill and you're in big trouble. Drop the pill into a big jug of water and drink the bucket. It'll taste a little funky but you'll be fine and the chlorine will be gone.

Anon,

Part of the historic American nation? Absolutely not. They showed up in significant numbers only after 1880, after all the hard work of creating this nation was completed

Touche, though they showed up less than a generation after the historic American nation had torn itself to pieces. We have to be vigilant against laying everything at their feet. How feeble a people are we if all it takes is a few unarmed shysters to bury us?

I like the idea of a "nationalist rainbow coalition"

There are countries that are able to resist the EU-led white genocide because Brussels doesn't have the power that the Imperial Capital does. If it did, Poland and Hungary would get flooded with invaders just like states like Arizona and Oklahoma are being flooded with them now (but wouldn't be without federal government interference).

A common argument against secession in the US is that the new smaller countries will face the same problems the US does currently. I doubt that's the case. Many of the same pressures will be there, but states or groups of states will respond in radically different ways.

Under far worse conditions than those we face here, South African white liberals continue to counter-signal any attempts to halt the farm murders or achieve Afrikaner self-determination.

White liberals want moral absolution, we are the sacrifice.

The response of white leftists in South Africa has been to tell the farmers to voluntarily give up their lands. They frequently chide any white criticism of black misbehavior, and urge whites to be deferential to blacks in social occasions. When Afrikaans was disestablished as an official language, the white left cheered. Until recently, when the evidence became too much to hide, the farm murders were considered a conspiracy theory.

A surprising number of whites will accept ruinous taxation, corruption and no ability to vote a government out of office. In exchange the ANC has provided them with the ability to morally preen and engage in all the degeneracy they could ever want.

---

Our goal needs to be self-determination, nothing less. As a secondary goal we need to encourage Third World economic development. That would lower their TFR, reduce emigration and hopefully one day lead to voluntary migration of uncompatible non-whites and white leftists out of the West. Destroying our economy has appeared to be the easiest way to stop the Third World from moving here.

It's a mixed bag. Gen Z is fine with the faggotry and not ostracizing the mental disorder than is transgenderism, but they're also more secure in their racial and ethnic identities than older generations. Echoing Trump's dominance among white Gen Zyklon's here, in a mock election among high school students in Sweden, the Swedish Democrats (the country's anti-immigrant party) won a staggering 57% of the vote and Sweden's not even a two-party system like the US.

Certainly a good sign, it is worth mentioning that the school is located in the most overrun region of Sweden. If SD were to unexpectedly come in first, that would certainly be an earthquake.

Worryingly, the Swedish government has been fear mongering about a Russian invasion. SD was compromised into accepting NATO membership, which caused a party schism. I unironically support Russia invading.

I think this debate is less about whether Jews are white or not and more about self-determination and whether or not any group of whites is to be allowed to exclude Jews.

Jews and some gentiles don't want Jews to be considered non-white because they don't want any white groups to be allowed to exclude Jews. They want to promote the idea of a common identity so that no white groups will be allowed to exclude Jews on the basis of identity. Others like Mike Enoch want Jews to be considered non-white precisely so they'll be justified in excluding Jews on the basis of identity.

But whether Jews are white or not, any group of people, including white groups, should be allowed to exclude Jews, and anyone else for that matter, for any or no reason at all. People should be allowed self-determination.

Banning ritual slaughter and non-adult circumcision is a fairly easy way of discouraging Jewish/Muslim settlement. The former can also be hit with import tariffs/bans while the latter could be evaded with travel (but theoretically could be a trigger of denauturalization).

Anti-Islamic rhetoric often amount to nothing more than secularist bromides. The effect of attacking Islam only serves to weaken Christianity in the mainstream population. Most bishops appear to revel in counter-signaling their right-wing flock. I would not be surprised if liberals circa 2030 begin demanding to ban religion for minors on the account of being "child abuse". This law already exists in the People's Republic of China, which will in time exert a philosophical influence on the Western left.

Jews will never be dependable allies of whites and will always be first and foremost Jews. If a Jew voted for Clinton it was most likely because she felt that was good for Jews and bad for whites (one and the same in theory). If a Jew voted for Trump (as did most male Jews) they usually felt that was best for Jews. When whites become a persecuted minority we cannot count on Jews being on our side. Their side will be the one most beneficial to Jews.

Just for people who are not familiar with the "my fellow whites" meme, here we get to see a few members of the chosen ones flipping back and forth about being white and when they choose to do that.

Although right now, Elon Musk, a South African Jew, is causing many Jewish blue checkmarks to melt down these last few days when he suggested the media should be held accountable. Sometimes these interjew slapfights are fun to watch but we have to be careful to not land ourselves in yet another kosher sandwich.

Elon Musk is Jewish? I haven't seen any evidence for it, but I'd be interested in learning if he is.

Overall Elon Musk is a whole lot more likable than other tech billionaires. Guys like Zuckerberg, Bezos, and Gates never really invented or designed anything new or cool, but learned how to ruthlessly exploit their positions in the market and buy up innovations as they saw them. Even if Tesla ends up being a bunch of accounting chicaneries, there is something undeniably cooler and more impressive about a guy who designs real things, rather than gimmicks or software shortcuts.

To put it crudely, Elon Musk always comes off as a peak Nordic style inventor and designer. Unlike Jews, who have weak visuo-spatial skills, he designs hard, tangible products. Unlike Asians, who have weak verbal skills, he's a big picture thinker who can understand how something small fits into the overall product.

Granted, absolute top level inventors have highly individualized skill sets, so applying ethnic norms to them is pretty useless*, but still, he has the air of the old school 1870s to 1970s inventors who actually produced things that revolutionized whole industries.

*Steve Jobs' biological father was Syrian, but anyone thinks the Syrian refugees in Europe will make us new iPhones once they speak German is dolt.

SpaceX is fully funded by corporations and NGO grants. Problem is that its not actually a space program but a corporate outfit for satellites and therefore no oversight. What kind of satellites does this thing shoot up? Spy satellites? Google Panopticon? NSA/Facebook listening posts? Nobody knows for sure. Private corporation, no freedom of information act. There is government contracts involved. But the "one penny rule" for Federal Oversight gets bypassed when the components are funded by government contracts while the Musky Launchpad is paid by Militech/Zaibatsu LLC.

From what I've heard, Elon Musk keeps his industries in the USA and pays high wages. The business argument given is that he's trying to reduce the costs of space launches down by verticalizing the business. SpaceX produces everything and thus doesn't need to be expensive niche components from other companies.

Of course, the only industries that feel the need to keep everything all-American are those connected to the deep state and defense. As such, I can imagine that he and the defense establishment reached a deal that the USA would reaffirm its space capabilities through his company. If anything, it's good for them because there's less public scrutiny on what SpaceX is doing.

"On The Daily Shoah the big-brained Z-Man brought up an important question white identitarians have to find a satisfactory answer to--are based Jews part of Heritage America or always potential wolves in sheep's clothing?"

Indeed, white identitarians. Because for the normies/mushy middle, the question is moot. Sure, they may hold to the stereotypical Jews are rich, Jews have hook noses, Jewish women have floppy breasts, etc., but they have more pressing issues to attend to rather than indulge in this "intellectual" Coalition of the Right/Left Fringe fetish. Furthermore, to convince the tens of millions of normies/mushy middle that the Jews constitute a dire threat to life and limb will require a Herculean effort on the part of the Alt Right. I look forward to the hundreds of thousands of man hours required, along with the foot soldiers to boot, in this endeavor. Recruiting efforts begin now...

Anony 7:55 a.m...

"White? If so, then so are Gypsies, Chechens, Turks, Arabs, and Iranians."

Such is the quandry for the Alt Right.

"Part of the historic American nation? Absolutely not. They showed up in significant numbers only after 1880..."

Fortunately, you don't get to make that decision. And what rationale are you using here to set this numerical and year criteria as to who is part of the "historic American nation"? Because if you want to remain consistent employing your standard, then the Poles definitively MUST be discounted...and have to go back.

"after all the hard work of creating this nation was completed..."

Jews helped to build America through their own efforts. Are you really this ignorant?

http://www.jewishmag.com/79mag/usahistory2/usahistory2.htm

"I like the idea of a "nationalist rainbow coalition". The territory of the United States belongs to the tribes who underwent ethno-genesis here. This includes White Americans (descendants of the colonial era White population of the 13 colonies, and the subsequent White immigrants who utterly assimilated to them), Black Americans (descendants of the pre-1860 slaves and free blacks of the USA, and subsequent Black immigrants who utterly assimilated to them), the various north-of-the-Rio-Grande American Indian tribes, Hawaiians, and Eskimos."

I see, you are taking a **Voxian approach**. Except how are you going to sell this idea to the general public? What information apparatus needs to be put in place? How will it be controlled? By whom? How will resistance be dealt with?

See, if you are going to make this proposals, you must have the details firmly established.

**Consider that prominent members of the Alt Right find fault with those “current Americans” who trace their ancestry to the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, and the Slavs. Why? Well, since their relatives were “allowed” to enter America, their undesirable traits have eroded and diluted the customs and traditions created by the original founders of the United States, the English. It is not an issue of being white, but being non-English. To quote, “The American civic heritage does not ‘transcend ethnicity’, as I [Vox Day], or any other American Indian, can tell you. And it is restricted by geographic extent. The Chinese, the Portuguese, the Swedes, and the British are not Americans…[Moreover], there is nothing exceptional about America except its superior founding stock and its geographic advantages, both of which are now significantly reduced.” Moreover, when Alt-Right elitists characterize the general American population, including whites, as being “mal-educated and historically ignorant” about the outright falsehoods of the proposition nation and Judeo-Christian values, they are going to be other than gung-ho with jumping in bed with the Alt Right.

Can you provide a brief overview of what that means? Is it acknowledging Israel as the ancestral homeland of Judaism such that loyalty must always be given to Israel among the diaspora? Or is there more to it than that?

I think Shawn might be referring to "dual ethics" or "one law for the Tribe and another law for the Goyim". The Talmud supposedly explains this in regards to payment disputes, I've never read the Talmud as I presume it is in Hebrew so I don't know for sure.

Any movement that includes Jews, or even Mischling Jews-count me right the hell out.

I'm not bonding w/ those fork-tongued, pilpul spouting, shape shifters in any manner.

They hate whitey, they don't *really* consider themselves white first, they may claim to do so when it suits them, but above all they consider themselves as Jewish first, and for a large number of them, their first loyalty is to Israel.

NO, THANKS.

As for TRS, if you get used to the inside jokes, the show regulars personal lives, memes from the forum & twitter bantz, etc., then it's a really funny show.

Is there data about Jewish self-identification among the Jew-hapas? In my anecdotal experience this is even more a case of Jew-when-convenient.

Regardless, if the attitudes and elite dominance have infected us all to the point that most of us "think jewish" then what is the timeframe for that to right-itself (pun intended)? Can it happen before we are overrun by the brown footsoldiers?