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It was quite grim and I was taken aback on how bleak everyone became. I guess in certain circumstances the Walter that Walter Bishop didn't want to be (before Dr. Bell took the bits of his brain out) did come. I did see the (Henri)Etta bit a mile away. I didn't expect Dr. Bell in the amber though.

If I understand correctly, whatever Walter's plan is, it only requires Bell's hand, not Bell himself. They were running out of time, so they rescued Peter, and cut off Bell's hand. It was played to make you think they had rescued Bell.

After sleeping on it overnight, I finally decided to go with 'Very Good' for a variety of reasons: Noble's wonderful performance as the ever-changing Walter, Henry Ian Cusick's guest turn, the humor, and the surprise at finding out that Belly wasn't dead, but had been part of the group that got encased in amber three years from now.

That said, I have to agree with startrekwatcher that taken overall, the ep was a bit disappointing in that it didn't resolve itself, or show us how it fits into the DRJ plot. While I'm assuming that it will connect by the finale, it does seem a little late in the game to introduce this type of Lost-style of time-hopping. As I posted somewhere above, I seriously believe this to be the single dangling plot-thread that Lance Reddick said could be used to take the show in a different direction for a theoretical Season 5.

The big question for me is Bell - I clearly remember Walter stating earlier in this season (altered timeline) that Belly was NOT alive, though no explanation was given for his demise. Clearly, it couldn't be the same as in the original timeline, as his death there was connected to rescuing Peter. Of all the unanswered questions, this is the one I really want to see addressed.

All in all, I was entertained and enjoyed it. There's still a hell of a lot to resolve in the three episodes that remain and I will be sorry if that's all we get.

First of all: Why did the Observers choose to travel back to 2015 when the world fell apart in 2609? What was so special about that year that made them want to travel back, and since when did Observers become so violent? It seems strange to me that beings that are usually peaceful and non-interfering would suddenly change like this.

Secondly: Where is Olivia? It didn't appear that she was encased in amber with the others, so was she killed in 2026 (as we saw in "The Day We Died") or did she die earlier before the others were encased in amber? And is that why Etta has a bullet as a necklace; is it the one that killed her mother?

Thirdly: Did this happen in the other universe as well? I'm very curious as to how the other universe reacted to this sudden invasion, because if the bridge was still active then the Observers could cross unhindered. So was the bridge sealed off, or is the alternate universe under the same control that ours is in 2036?

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Vi;

Here's my thoughts on your questions above:

1. I agree with you totally here, up until this point, the Observers have essentially been like the Time Lords: pacifistic, with no desire to intervene. In fact, when August intervened to save that girl's life in I believe Season 2, they reamed him a new asshole for it. So yeah, it seems strange that beings that were this peaceful and with a seemingly strong moral compass in regards to non-interference, this invasion seems... Strange. Then again, desperate times breed desperate measures. So I don't really have an answer to this one, only that I agree totally with you that it just doesn't seem to fit the profile of the Observers we've seen before.

2. Dunham obviously died prior to Walter, Peter, Belly and Asteroid being encased in amber in 2015 (the significance of the bullet Etta wore around her neck. This would negate Olivia's previous 'death' at the hands of Walternate in 'TDWD', as that particular future has been changed by Peter's disappearance after going back through the machine. It's at least in keeping with what September told her that in all possible futures he had seen, Olivia had to die. So sorry, as cool as it might be to believe that 'our' Olivia escaped to the Red-Verse, I'm sure it didn't happen.

3. My guess is that the Observers, being able to travel freely between both 'verses and all times, have invaded the Red-Verse as well, and those folks have their own problems and probably could give a flying rat's ass about the Observers going Big Brother on us. This too, is something that begs more explanation, as does Belly's being around when it was stated earlier that he had died, and just what it is that Walter is going to do to save the day, now that his brain is unified once again. Though I would hazard a guess that whatever it is that he's going to do with Belly's hand, it might be connected to the other 'verse in some manner.

One thing is for certain: This ep is probably going to generate a lot of conversation between now and the finale.

It's not certain which universe this episode took place in, since we know Bell is dead in the new Peter-less timeline, then Bell might have survived in the new Peter-less timeline in the other universe. The new Walter might have been the Secretary. The brain damaged version seemed like an exaggerated version of the original Walter. And Astrid didn't get enough dialogue for us to be sure she wasn't just an non-uniformed version of the other universe Astrid.

The observers are meant to be from one of many possible futures, maybe these observers are from a different possible future or maybe the timeline has become so corrupted the future the observers came from has also been changed.

If Olivia is infact dead in this future I wonder if the events are going to be reset by the end of the season, maybe the machine Walter wants to create will reverse something DRJ is responsible for and lead to the observers taking over.

Well no mention of either dimension or 'bridge' were made in this episode, so it's entirely possible that this is a 'third universe' that we have yet to connect to...

It was made apparent in the books that there are infinite universe out there in the Fringe Universe... so it's quite possible that this is a third universe, green perhaps, that is going to be brought into the equation...

I suspect that what we saw is the future of Timeline 2 (the DRJ timeline). Unless of course, something occurs after next week's ep that causes another resetting of the timeline, which results in Bell being alive and the invasion in 2015.

I'm confused... what happened to Bell? Where did Peter come from? I didn't see him rescued from the amber... or did I miss a scene?

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Simon sacrificed himself to dislodge Peter from the amber, once it was shifted momentarily from solid to gas. They just didn't show who he pushed out, when it happened. As for Bell... it's a bit of a mystery. He's supposed to be dead. Yet, he was encased in amber, a signature of the Walternate universe. Perhaps he died but was then quickly preserved in the amber, just in case they might be able to resuscitate him? Or, leverage his brain somehow? They certainly intend to make use of his hand! I guess to gain access to some room using a hand-print scanner.

I wonder if this episode was a kind of continuation from the "future" (yellow?) universe, where Peter went to at the end of Season 3? Remember, Olivia was killed there by Walternate. When Peter used the machine to "heal" the universes, it may have inadvertently left the future timeline intact.

In any case, I too found the episode raised more questions than the answers it provided. It seems way too unfinished to be a stand-alone. I have to believe they'll do a follow-up later on. It would be kind of interesting to see it alternating with the prime story line. I really want to understand what happened to the Observers, why they changed so radically.

I'm confused... what happened to Bell? Where did Peter come from? I didn't see him rescued from the amber... or did I miss a scene?

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Simon sacrificed himself to dislodge Peter from the amber, once it was shifted momentarily from solid to gas. They just didn't show who he pushed out, when it happened. As for Bell... it's a bit of a mystery. He's supposed to be dead. Yet, he was encased in amber, a signature of the Walternate universe. Perhaps he died but was then quickly preserved in the amber, just in case they might be able to resuscitate him? Or, leverage his brain somehow? They certainly intend to make use of his hand! I guess to gain access to some room using a hand-print scanner.

I wonder if this episode was a kind of continuation from the "future" (yellow?) universe, where Peter went to at the end of Season 3? Remember, Olivia was killed there by Walternate. When Peter used the machine to "heal" the universes, it may have inadvertently left the future timeline intact.

In any case, I too found the episode raised more questions than the answers it provided. It seems way too unfinished to be a stand-alone. I have to believe they'll do a follow-up later on. It would be kind of interesting to see it alternating with the prime story line. I really want to understand what happened to the Observers, why they changed so radically.

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Peter and Olivia didn't have a child in that universe.

I think it is the current path of the current universe.

I don't know if it was mentioned elsewhere in the thread but September mentioned that any child of Peter and Olivia would be significant because the parents would be from two different universes. That would supposed to be his original fate before September interrupted Walternate from finding the cure. Etta was able to block the Observers from reading her mind.

If its the fact that Etta is a child with a parent from different universes that allows her to be immune to the Observers telepathy... I wonder if in the alternate universe there may be a child of Fauxlivia + Lincoln who could be carrying out a similar role in a resistance group there.

I wonder if the reason why the Observers took over in 2015 (besides it being in the near future for us) is because they wanted to take over the Earth at the furthest point in human technology that they could *WITHOUT* it being so advanced as to challenge them. If it was about assuming control before the planet worsened ecologically they could have all taken over the planet in 1915 or 1015 or whenever and and had a lot less people to kill and worry about... but then they'd have less advanced (or none at all) infrastructure.

Weren't we told that people encased in amber continue to think and be aware? From the episode where a bank robber's brother took his place in the amber until the actual robber figured out how to switch/free him.

Wouldn't that mean that this Belly, whomever he is, is aware his hand has been cut off? Ew!

First of all: Why did the Observers choose to travel back to 2015 when the world fell apart in 2609? What was so special about that year that made them want to travel back, and since when did Observers become so violent? It seems strange to me that beings that are usually peaceful and non-interfering would suddenly change like this.

Secondly: Where is Olivia? It didn't appear that she was encased in amber with the others, so was she killed in 2026 (as we saw in "The Day We Died") or did she die earlier before the others were encased in amber? And is that why Etta has a bullet as a necklace; is it the one that killed her mother?

Thirdly: Did this happen in the other universe as well? I'm very curious as to how the other universe reacted to this sudden invasion, because if the bridge was still active then the Observers could cross unhindered. So was the bridge sealed off, or is the alternate universe under the same control that ours is in 2036?

Click to expand...

Vi;

Here's my thoughts on your questions above:

1. I agree with you totally here, up until this point, the Observers have essentially been like the Time Lords: pacifistic, with no desire to intervene. In fact, when August intervened to save that girl's life in I believe Season 2, they reamed him a new asshole for it. So yeah, it seems strange that beings that were this peaceful and with a seemingly strong moral compass in regards to non-interference, this invasion seems... Strange. Then again, desperate times breed desperate measures. So I don't really have an answer to this one, only that I agree totally with you that it just doesn't seem to fit the profile of the Observers we've seen before.

2. Dunham obviously died prior to Walter, Peter, Belly and Asteroid being encased in amber in 2015 (the significance of the bullet Etta wore around her neck. This would negate Olivia's previous 'death' at the hands of Walternate in 'TDWD', as that particular future has been changed by Peter's disappearance after going back through the machine. It's at least in keeping with what September told her that in all possible futures he had seen, Olivia had to die. So sorry, as cool as it might be to believe that 'our' Olivia escaped to the Red-Verse, I'm sure it didn't happen.

3. My guess is that the Observers, being able to travel freely between both 'verses and all times, have invaded the Red-Verse as well, and those folks have their own problems and probably could give a flying rat's ass about the Observers going Big Brother on us. This too, is something that begs more explanation, as does Belly's being around when it was stated earlier that he had died, and just what it is that Walter is going to do to save the day, now that his brain is unified once again. Though I would hazard a guess that whatever it is that he's going to do with Belly's hand, it might be connected to the other 'verse in some manner.

One thing is for certain: This ep is probably going to generate a lot of conversation between now and the finale.

Click to expand...

Thanks for responding to my questions

1. It does seem like something has happened that changed the nature of the Observer's behaviour. As to what that is, I have no idea. But if it is as you say 'desperate times call for desperate measures', then there must have been something more devastating than the poisoning of the world to change them so drastically.

2. That's the answer that I'm leaning more towards now as well. It does also fit with the 'all the possible futures' prophecy that September told Olivia, so I agree with you there.

My suggestion that Olivia was in the red-verse was more just a sudden idea that I typed out

3. That would make sense, as if their new drive was to conquer, then why leave that universe alone when it's up for grabs?

Bell's appearance is another matter entirely. I noticed that someone else mentioned the possibility that maybe this is a shapeshifter disguised as Bell, which would work under the circumstances.

As for the hand... your guess is as good as mine on that one.

I honestly wish that we could have a whole season in this future-verse. If this is just a taste of what the writers can do with Orwellian style Fringe, then all I can say is that I want more.

Meh.... WTH was that? And no continuation next week? So what exactly was the point???

With only a few hours left, they should be building up to a finale, not waste time on a bizarro future. Poor makeup and effects didn't help. And turning the observers into villains makes no sense - especially villains hanging out in a fancy bordello. Ugh. Do they really think that turning observers into low-rent nazis would be compelling? Not for me.

No, I'm not digging this at all. One of the worst episodes of Fringe IMO, even if the girl was very cute.