Thornton’s brother spells out the one scenario that could get Sharks captain to re-think future here — plus Vlasic injury update and thoughts on Kings

SAN JOSE – Still off the clock more than on it, but did get a chance to dip my toe in the water once again . . .

The Joe Thornton situation has taken on a life of its own so I wanted to talk with the more accessible (and free-wheeling) member of the family, brother and agent John. And there was also the occasion to track down Marc-Edouard Vlasic for a short story I’m free-lancing for The Hockey News.

Vlasic had some interesting things to say about the Los Angeles Kings on the verge of winning the Stanley Cup, but let’s start with Thornton.

Advertisement

My colleague Tim Kawakami deserves credit for getting the most specific quote yet from general manager Doug Wilson last week on his concerns about the veteran group he has assembled in San Jose: “We want players who want to play here, not just live here.”

Couple that with earlier statements from Wilson that strongly suggested Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau may not be part of the team going forward, and you had to wonder how that was playing with the Thorntons.

Joe hadn’t wavered from his stated position of wanting to stay in San Jose, and since the three-year, $20.25-million contract extension includes a no-movement clause, ultimately has final say barring the unlikeliest of any buyout.

John Thornton already had staked out his position on Twitter when it came to Wilson’s call for a culture change in the locker room – “a culture established by who again?,” he responded to Kawakami’s column.

Let’s just say the Thornton camp resists the idea that the Sharks captain’s departure is in the team’s best interest.

But the answer John Thornton gave to the question of whether his brother would want to continue playing where he wasn’t wanted brought an interesting response:

“If he felt the fans didn’t want him in San Jose, he might re-think things.”

That quote prompted a quick story for Wednesday’s print edition that you can find online here . But it also lends itself to a couple of easy interpretations: 1) The Thorntons feel that a significant majority of the fan base still sees Joe as part of the solution, not part of the problem (and by initial responses in Twitterville, that’s an accurate perception). 2) What the fan base thinks matters more to them at this point than what the boss might want.

Advertisement

All of which is only more evidence that the Sharks now find themselves in their most precarious spot in the Wilson era. And there are no easy ways out of this mess.

****The Vlasic conversation was a little less dramatic, focusing on his increased role on the ice and in the locker room now that Dan Boyle is gone.

But I figured it was also a chance for both a quick injury update and Vlasic’s thoughts on whether the fact the Los Angeles Kings are now one win away from the 2014 Stanley Cup title makes San Jose’s epic collapse more bearable or more criminal.

First the injury update: The head is clear after that forearm shot by Jarret Stoll, the damage to his knee on the same play requires a little more rest before Vlasic is good to go.

“It’s a question of time – it’s the exact same injury I had two years ago a the world championships and it takes six to eight weeks to heal,” Vlasic said. “If I take care of it now, I should be 100 percent come training camp.”

That 2012 injury was a sprained MCL, by the way.

As for the Kings’ subsequent success and the pain of that first-round loss . . .

“To be honest with you, it doesn’t matter if they win or lose. Losing to them,” he said before pausing, “. . . we should have put them away.”

And he candidly acknowledges that beating the Kings did not mean an automatic trip to the Stanley Cup finals.

“You beat the Kings and you play Anaheim and Anaheim had our number so they could have beaten us,” Vlasic said. “It just happens that every team that wins the cup has a scare. The Rangers, if they win, they were down 3-1 against Pittsburgh and everybody counted them out.”

Nor does Vlasic buy into the idea that the outcome against Los Angeles would have been different if he had not been hurt.

That’s not the reason why we lost, though I think I could have helped the team just being there, a calm presence, getting the guys going, just playing my game,” he said. “But it’s not the reason we lost or why were were 0-for-6 on the power play in Game 7, or why we scored three goals in three games. I’m not going to score five goals in three games.

“It just sucked for me personally sitting on the sidelines, knowing that I could have helped the team if I was in the lineup,” he added. “But it’s not the reason why we lost at all.”

****Back on the road for a few days, celebrating the 90th birthday of the family patriarch in St. Louis (another traumatized NHL city, right?). Focusing on the job a little more after that.

David Pollak

David Pollak has been following the NHL forever and at the Mercury News as an editor or reporter since 1987. For almost a decade he wrote about the Sharks as the paper's Fan in the Stands before joining the sports department in 2001. He became the Sharks beat writer before the 2007-08 season and began this blog at that time. You can also follow him on Twitter at @PollakOnSharks.

Post navigation

David this was the first year the Sharks didn’t list the results of the fan voting. Why don’t they do that. Thornton has always been shockingly low. Maybe that would give John a more accurate picture.

tom

Time to move on from the Thornton and Marleau era. Get what we can – while we can.

GP_hockeyhappens

You voted up yourself? Classy.

CMoreSharks

Between them, Joe and Patty scored 146 points this season, 22% of all the points the Sharks scored. Only Pavs scored more points, and that was because he played on Jumbo’s line most of the season. They are both exceptionally rare talents. Coming anywhere close to replacing the gaping hole they would leave through trade or free agency is unlikely. Perhaps DW can pull off some type of miracle deal and improve the team by dealing them, but absent a miracle, the Sharks would be a significantly worse team in a seriously tough division without Joe and Patty.

GP_hockeyhappens

DP, I can only find media interpretations of DW’s statements. But don’t remember or have seen anywhere that DW said specifically he would be willing to try and move Marleau or Thornton. Are you privy to anything we wouldn’t be?

I think this whole thing is a snowballing from snow made from sewage. Someone interpreted this badly or made this suggestion and it’s becoming viral bacteria for the digestive track. There are other players on this team that live in SJ besides those two — the most productive in franchise history. IMO, the statement about living here is a challenge to everyone on the payroll.

That said, maybe DW is doing his part in giving back to the media and letting this thing fester a little longer by not saying anything, which is only slightly less than normal regarding players.

stevedrummer

You are correct. Who can replace them? The Sharks need to add, not subtract.

Alex

Sometimes people do it inadvertently. I voted up my own posts by mistake a few times before.

Tim Michael Case

Now that Boyle is gone, I really believe the biggest part of the Shark’s problems are gone, too. Granted, Boyle scored some goals, but his inability to hold the blue plus awful passing and not so good on defense, I am thrilled he is finally gone.
To even hint at the idea of losing Joe Thornton is really nuts, stupid and an all around disaster of a bad idea. Thornton is the BEST play maker in the game, the consumate professional, OUTSTANDING along the boards and in the corners, and also has a tremendous shot let alone being the best passer period. To let him go would be just about the dumbest move in NHL history.
Please hush up on the”Joe is going to go talk”. You are scaring the hell out of me!

MLBSF

I couldn’t agree more

MLBSF

I couldn’t agree more

MLBSF

Looks like Thornton has been reading my posts.

It’s not that we don’t like you Joe. You’re just a terrible leader, and you have a dark and dismal failure record in the postseason that most of us are sick and tired of.

I would be open to you staying as long as we got rid of Marleau. And we gave your C to someone else. But you and Marleau together are poison.

Seth El Duderino Fischer

What they did in the regular season is irrelevant. What matters is what they did in the playoffs.

If you’re content with the comfort of just making the playoffs then you’re content with what the Sharks have. However, if you are like me, you’ve come to realize that putting up points in the regular season is a lot easier than the post-season. I’d rather have 6 points in the first round of the post-season from my captain than 80+ points in the regular season.

Seth El Duderino Fischer

There’s enough offensive “talent” on this team where I would gladly give up a streaky guy like Joe or PM for a player like Justin Williams (not 1-for-1 obviously, just that style of player).

As guys like Williams proves, being “The BEST play maker” or “outstanding along the boards” isn’t what gets a team to the promised land.

Some players have what it takes and some don’t. Give me players who overachieve with their talent than players who underachieve.

ppc

You do not score like Thornton and Marleau do by being streaky. Streakiness among top scorers is a myth.

Teejay

I’m leaning toward keeping Joe and Patty. They are both future hall of famer’s. Joe is usually good for 60-70 assists and Patty is usually good for 30 goals, although he goes dormant in the playoffs. Let’s focus on some of the other talent (?). I think Nemo should get his walking papers while they can still get something for him. Stalock can and IMO will be the first string goalie. Although Burns will help, they’ve got to pick up some more D to fill the hole left by Boyle. Then how do you back fill the hole left at forward by Burns?

Seth El Duderino Fischer

Nah that’s not true. Streaky guys get 3 points in 4 games, followed by 7 points in 4 games then followed by 0 in 3.

ppc

No, that’s just normal small sample-size results. go ahead and compare players with comparable points to each other, you will find that they are all about equally “streaky,” which means no one is really streaky.

John Mango

This team needs a rebuild. Period. It will be painful. A rebuild means Jumbo, Patty and potentially even Pavs and Burns are gone for the right deals.

I’m reading a lot of what I believe are fear based comments stating they want Joe and Patty back. Friends, that approach has not gotten us to where we want to go for the past 10 years. This team as currently constituted is not good enough to beat LA, ANA or CHI, just to name a few. Rebuilds are painful but necessary. CHI and LA went through it. The Sharks must as well if they want to eventually go all the way.

And as an aside, if I’m DW, I’m putting in strong efforts to land the #1 overall pick so we can get our Doughty, Aaron Ekblad. Watch video on the kid, he’s tremendous. I’d offer Pavelski for that pick. Pavs is aging, his value is at its peak and he’s coming off a very tough shoulder surgery. Go Sharks!

ppc

This is a myth, among the best teams, playoffs come down largely to depth scoring. The best players tend to neutralize each other or score at a similar rate.

MLBSF

Very good post

ppc

Nemo is the biggest problem we have talentwise. Nothing personal against the guy but he’s not the goalie we need. He has stunk it up in the playoffs twice in 4 years here as a Shark. He can’t be counted on, and we don’t just need a goalie we can count on, we need one that can step up since our defense cannot be as good as the Kings, Hawks, etc.

ppc

Rebuilds are not how the best teams got to be the best teams. So there goes that theory.

Oh and Pavelski will not net the #1 overall.

Hawk Valentine

It ain’t up to Jumbo or John or The Fans, if DW wants you gone, you’re gone. No movement is a misnomer. He can list a few teams he won’t go to and/or will go to but unless he wants management, coaches, teammates and fans to hate him, he has to go. The Sharks need a culture change.

ppc

Yeah it’ll be a culture change all right if the Sharks do Thornton dirty like this, and not in the direction you seem to think. They’ll go from being a well-managed team to a disaster. DW is probably smart enough to realize that. Fans not so much, but there are a lot of dumb fans out there.

John Mango

Rebuilds are precisely how the Hawks got Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook. And how the Kings got Doughty, Kopitar, Voynov and Quick.

You rebuild through the draft to establish your cornerstone pieces. Then you add ancillary pieces thereafter.

I trust the Sharks scouting department. Hertl, Couture, Pavs, Vlasic demonstrate their acumen. I want to see more of that. With Joe and Patty, we draft at 20, hampering our rebuild. Without them we miss the playoffs (at least likely) and we draft in the top 10 for a few years. Given this team’s success in the later rounds, I’d love to see what they can do in the top 10.

MLBSF

LOL Yes.
The Kings were the Sharks before they shook things up.

Spoofy McSpoof

Joe Thornton’s arrogance is a cancer on the team. He works harder on the ice than I’ve ever seen him work in the last few seasons, but as a leader, his attitude is poison. Ask yourself why the Sharks kick the crap out of people and then lose, and it’s for one reason–ARROGANCE. There is no sense of heroic desperation and respect for the effort required. There is a terrible and corrosive self-admiration that no team can win with over the long haul.
If Joe were leading the D-Day attack, he would have stopped after gaining the beaches to admire his achievement for a year.

John Mango

I get your point, but a little “spoofy” don’t you think? 🙂

Ronn Sven

Which at this time the Sharks do not possess

Seth El Duderino Fischer

That’s absurd. Not only are they streaky players, it resonates on a team level. They’ll come out like gangbusters and win 6 in a row in dominating fashion, the first line and PP clicks, everything is grand. Then they’ll inexplicably lose the next 5 scoring a grand total of 2 goals in the process, the first line will look lost and the PP will become our weakness.

Look, i don’t hate these players, but we have all seen them long enough to know what to expect. When things are good, they play with the utmost confidence in not only themselves but everyone around them. It’s infectious. However when things go sour, Thornton is trying but can’t seem to handle the pressure. Marleau just floats around out there hoping to not make a mistake. He becomes invisible until he somehow ends up in the right place at the right time and everyone praises his heroics.

You can pledge your allegiance to these guys as much as you want, but you and I both know the definition of insanity…

Seth El Duderino Fischer

No, the playoffs come down to your best players being the best players on the ice. Simple as that. I’m sorry but you can come up with all the theories you want, but with the amount of depth scoring this team has, there are simply NO EXCUSES to how abysmal they looked in the last 4 games. On paper that offense is as good as anyone in the league, it just did not transfer over to the ice.

Craig

you sound like the enemy plotting all the things you hope the Sharks do to become a non factor. Doug knows much, much better.

Craig

Baloney! Hockey is a streaky game, players are streaky and teams are streaky. Marleau and Thornton are streaky. You must have been kidding.

Craig

Very well said. The Sharks and hockey in general are streaky!

Ronn Sven

Well said. And has not Lombardi built the Kings on this style of player.

Seth El Duderino Fischer

well clearly you are content with how things have gone.

I guess we have different standards of expectations.

GP_hockeyhappens

How the Hawks and Kings got those players….LOSING FOR YEARS AND YEARS. Hawks couldn’t fill half the building…

Ya lets go that route… no chance to win for 10 years. Brilliant.

GP_hockeyhappens

First you say:

“This team needs a rebuild.”

Then you end with:

“Go Sharks!”

This is shorthand for Go Sharks to another city….

GP_hockeyhappens

“Patty is usually good for 30 goals, although he goes dormant in the playoffs.”

Do you people keep replaying fiction in your head until you believe the lie? Who am I kidding. This is the left coast. For God’s Sake! Look up the stats before you post crap like this.

BeeOhZee

Let’s hope that the Sharks don’t run the franchise based on a result of a vote of the fans. If indeed Joe is shockingly low, that would clearly demonstrate the folly of doing so.

GP_hockeyhappens

This is stupid plain and simple. You mention Justin Williams. So, you are talking about the Kings. You think the Kings are overachieving?

When Sutter was HC in San Jose, that team over achieved year after year — period. You did keep that doctor. There wasn’t enough talent here and money spent like most of the other 15 PO teams. This LAKs team is not over achieving — not even close.

GP_hockeyhappens

And then, the franchise could move to Toronto or Montreal where the fans and media have more say than anyone will want to admit.

For instance Sheppard scored one of the 3 goals in last 4 games. He’s depth, is he not? (That’s rhetorical).

GP_hockeyhappens

“He becomes invisible until he somehow ends up in the right place at the right time and everyone praises his heroics.”

You’re really are kidding right? I am wondering where you get this from because the pundits aren’t saying it.

BeeOhZee

I like Vlasic’s admission that his absence is not the reason behind the Sharks’ loss to the Kings. He would have made a difference, but not enough of one. Would he have contributed much to the lackluster offensive performance? How many goals could he have prevented? And if his absence had a significant impact on the team’s on-ice mentality, what does that say about the team’s leadership (players and coaches)? Some apologists use his absence as an excuse for the Sharks elimination. I disagree.

GP_hockeyhappens

Exactly what does does his NMC say? Do you know the details? Options are much different for GMs now, unlike in the past to players like Boyle when the options for GMs were much different. GMs can’t bury high dollar players in the minors to force them to agree to a trade. So you might want to rethink that assumption.

Craig

You couldn’t be more wrong and I’m one of the original 100 Sharks season ticket holders and still am. Don’t go into the field of psychology.

GP_hockeyhappens

Why did you have to go ruin a perfectly valid thought and opinion by labeling people apologists?

While I think he’s both being humble and correct, I also think it’s not mutually exclusive that the Keith Jones assessment is correct. Sharks would still be playing if Vlasic wasn’t taken out. IMO, very likely. But, I still maintain the Sharks should have won anyway just on their PP chances. Why they didn’t overcome these hurdles is just main reason so many here are giving up so many ill-conceived suggestions on how to fix things — of most that aren’t broken.

BeeOhZee

Yeah, I should’ve avoided the use of the word “apologists”. My only excuse is that I am still upset at the loss to the Kings at times and let that creep into my posts.

torr68

Joe I’m one of your biggest fans over here on the east coast I would love to see you back in a BOSTON BRUINS UNIFORM come back joe we loved your game here your what we need on our team. We are one good player away of winning the cup come back joe 😉