The Shotgun Blog

Saturday, April 18, 2009

The art of the apologetic non-apology

It's probably only a matter of days before Todd Bentley returns to working as an evangelist, according to a video update released by his friend and mentor Rick Joyner on the latter's website today. In "Todd and Ministry", Mr. Joyner says that he is powerless to stop God from overriding the restoration process which was allegedly necessary to bring the Canadian preacher back to work. And gee whiz if he doesn't see evidence that this may be happening.

One nagging question that readers may have is why are Mr. Bentley's critics still assailing him, when he says that he is sorry? Well, I can make an educated guess. Although I am not in this camp, I do think that it is in the public's interest to bring blatant lying to their attention.

I suspect that those watching the videos below the fold of this post might suspect that Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner are either trying to pull a fast one or are really dumb. They will know, however, the the pair are at least insulting towards a group of friends that tried to help Mr. Bentley when his revival in Lakeland, Florida was in trouble last summer.

Mr. Bentley's series of revival meetings, shown worldwide by satellite and Internet TV, suffered a body blow after a crew from the ABC-TV news program Nightline visited the revival and found that the meetings seemed to be having no impact on the surrounding communiuty. Moreover, Mr. Bentley was unable to provide "just one" example of someone who could prove with medical testimony that they had been healed. The evangelist immediately decided to take the following day off, probably to strategize.

On July 24, 2008, several charismatic evangelist friends of Bentley's came to Lakeland to "commission" him. Most of the evangelists belong to a group called Revival Alliance led by C. Peter Wagner, an informal but de facto denomination. The intent, Mr. Wagner explained, was to give some leadership and oversight to the Lakeland meetings. (And thereby, it was left unsaid, to attempt to quiet criticism of Mr. Bentley and reassure Christians who might be fearing that Mr. Bentley was going off the deep end.) Mr. Joyner was also there, participating.

It did not work. Attendance dwindled and Mr. Bentley struck his tents a few weeks later when it came out that his marriage was falling apart (due, it was later revealed, to "adultery" with an intern whom he has now married).

Fast forward to quite recently. On April 3, Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner issue a video entitled "Apology to the Revival Alliance and the Church." Amazingly, if you carefully parse what is said, it's an apology that winds up being extremely non-apologetic.

Here is the Bentley-Joyner "apology":

"....There's a big misunderstanding [about] what was going on," Mr. Joyner begins, referring to the special July 24 service.

Mr. Bentley then goes on to try to argue that he was still trying to reconcile with his first wife when the Revival Alliance came to Lakeland, so therefore they weren't blessing anything untoward. Shortly after the 5:18 mark of the video, he says, "Shonnah and I were hoping and working at that things were gonna work even when that ordination took place..." He makes a further reference to "ordination" a few seconds later.

Mr. Bentley, however, goes on to say that the Revival Alliance members were, in his opinion, coming to give God a pat on the back for doing good things, and to give him a "buffer" against attacks on the meetings. At the 7;13 mark of the video, he adds, "I saw it as a simple--not that they were responsible, not that I was coming under any government or organization, as if there was a political structure now, but I saw it simply that there was a bunch of guys that loved revival were all getting together to say 'Yay, God'..."

Okay, Mr. Bentley, after apologizing to the Revival Alliance members, is going on to say that there was nothing significant or formal in what was taking place. Unfortunately for him, the Revival Alliance ordinaton has been saved to YouTube in four parts and we can check what the truth of what he now says. (Did Mr. Bentley check the record first to see if what he was about to say was the truth? As you'll see below, that is doubtful.)

The four parts of the "Lakeland commissioning video" are at this YouTube playlist address:

https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=221A1C6B40B55DA0

Mr. Bentley's problem is as this was an ordination, this necessarily involves entering a formal arrangement with his friends in the Revival Alliance.

Some examples in the above videos explain what I mean.

C. Peter Wagner, at the 45 second mark of the Part 1 video explains "This is a ceremony celebrating the formal apostolic alignment with Todd Bentley..." In Mr. Wagner's theology, an evangelist such as Mr. Bentley needs to come under the authority of someone to do his work in good order. Mr. Wagner after rattling off his credentials and authority, cites Ephesians 4:11-12 and argues that the phrase translating "aligning" should be understood in the sense of a Greek word meaning when a doctor sets a broken bone. At the 1:58 mark of Part 1, he adds, "This is the responsibility of apostles, such as those you see here on the platform and that is the reason we are present here tonight."

As Mr. Bentley stands on ths stage listening to this, he should understand that a patient who refuses to let a doctor set his broken bone and wrap it in a cast is in dire straights indeed. Therefore, following Mr. Wagner's logic, the Revival Alliance "apostles" are asking Mr. Bentley, as a condition of their coming to support him, to listen and heed when they perceive "broken bones" in the body of his revival. If they spot something wrong, Mr. Bentley must heed and change.

Three members of the Revival Alliance, evangelists Che Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott, all friends of Todd Bentley, are called forward to establish a direct working relationship with Todd Bentley. At the 4:48 mark of the Part 1 video, Todd Bentley, nodding frantically "Yes" in response, is formally asked by Mr. Wagner, "Do you recognize the apostolic authority of these three men in your life and ministry and do you desire to establish an apostolic alignment with them, with Revival Alliance?" Noting Mr. Bentley's nodds, Mr. Wagner then starts to formally commission Todd and offer him the "right hand of fellowship" between Revival Alliance and the evangelist.

The formality continues. At the 9:30 mark of the Part 1 video, Che Ahn anoints Todd Bentley with "special oil".

Over Parts 2 and 3, several ministers pray blessings over Todd Bentley. Rick Joyner makes his presence felt at the end of Part 2, prophesying "increase" and "longevity" for Mr. Bentley's work.

At the beginning of Part 4, Che Ahn gives Todd Bentley a special ring, saying "...we not only seal this commission with this ring..." As the formal part of the ceremony ends, it leads Mr. Bentley to muse on the benefits of partnership. Starting at 3:08 of the Part 4 video, Mr. Bentley muses "Sometimes in the church we get so wounded that there's no room for trust, for friends, for working together with friends. You end up just [saying] 'I'm gonna do it myself...'"

The "tale of the tape" is clear. The Revival Alliance members were making a formal relationship with Todd. And now, after nodding happily at the time and grabbing for their help, Mr. Bentley is saying it never happened. Didn't he realize at the time that with the oaths, anointing and presentation of the ring that something formal was happening? Of course. If he didn't want this to happen, why didn't he make clear to Mr. Wagner that he refused a formal relationship with his group? Why didn't he stop the ceremony as it was happening? Why didn't he formally break the agreement from the pulpit in the days he had left at Lakeland?

This explains why the video "apology" is anything but. Obviously, the formal ceremony parts of the service were important and significant to the Revival Alliance members, but now Mr. Bentley is dismissing their thoughts and feelings (and indeed truthfully the fact that there were taking a risk to their own reputations by standing with him) with a wave of his hand. Is it Christ-like to apologize to someone and then to add "Oh and by the way, something that meant a lot to you has always meant nothing to me"? I'd think that Mr. Wagner would rather forego any "apology" and instead prefer that Mr. Bentley treats his friendship with the Revival Alliance members with respect.

This is troubling. Mr. Bentley's flawed work and ministry has been attributed to burnout and marital problems with his wife. Entering the restoration process, as we have been told over and over again in the many videos released by Mr. Joyner, means that Mr. Bentley should now exhibit good character. Is he burned out now? No. Is he experiencing strife with his wife, now? No, he has a new one. Then what does it mean if he is trying to lie now?

Mr. Joyner is at fault too. Even if Mr. Bentley didn't realize what was formally taking place, Mr. Joyner should have. The fact that Mr. Joyner decided to let Todd Bentley misrepresent what happened with his approval, using his ministry's resources, is dismaying.

What could be really going on? Here's a guess.

After Mr. Bentley left the revival meetings, Mr. Wagner tried, in the capacity of being the head of the Revival Alliance--the group that had aligned with Todd--to offer some public commentary that would offer his ideas on what went wrong and what should happen in the future. (Here's one of his statements.) Mr. Wagner released some details of Mr. Bentley's sins and mistakes and seems to want to give the impression that he would be firm with the lapsed evangelist.

Mr. Joyner, on the contrary, has been very gracious towards Mr. Bentley. His "restoration videos" given lots of evidence of this.

What may be happening is that Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley are, politely but firmly, telling Mr. Wagner by way of the video "apology" that he is to have no real role in discipling Mr. Bentley, or deciding how firm to be with him. Mr. Bentley used his video to try and pretend that Mr. Wagner has never had a reason to think that he should have a role. But, as you have seen, there is convincing evidence to the contrary.

It's a turf war. Think of Mr. Joyner and Mr. Wagner as the "Jets" and the "Sharks" with Todd Bentley cast as Maria. ("I feel BAM! Oh, so BAM!")

By the way, whatever made Mr. Joyner think that he was in a position of authority to be a formal mentor to Mr. Bentley? Stephen Strader, friend of Mr. Bentley and pastor of Ingited Church in Lakeland, Florida--home church of the "revival", might provide a telling clue.

Mr.Strader contributes to a public e-mail list, Apostles Today [Discussion] on charismatic Christian issues. On March 18, replying to a writer who was concerned that Shonnah Bentley, Todd's first wife, was being ignored in the process, he began by reccomending that the other writer watch "the videos done by Rick [Joyner] and Todd."

He continued: "Rick is not (nor any of us) welcoming Todd nor ignoring Shonnah. First, the whole process of the Apostolic Alignment was to bring Todd into proper accountability. Rick was assigned by the Revival Alliance to bring correction & restoration to Todd."

Hmm. If true, Mr. Joyner took the responsibility from the Revival Alliance and then, Todd Bentley in hand, told them to beat it.

One last note. In 2003, Todd Bentley wrote in his self-published autobiography Journey Into the Miraculous, that he was an ordained minister. It reads almost exactly the same in the current mass-market version printed last year, so I will quote the latter printing:

I thank God for my friendship with Patricia [King], and for how God used her as an instrument to ordain me into the ministry--but I always will know that the call came from God. I've since been ordained in Canada by my local church, and through the Christian Minister's Association. In the U.S., I'm recognized as a minister of the Gospel through World Ministry Fellowship in Texas. [Todd Bentley, Journey Into The Miraculous, Destiny Image Publishers, January 2008, p. 162]

Bud Press, the irrepressible boffin of the Christian Research Service, has done some looking into this and learned something surprising. Which you may read in full at:

https://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentley12.htm

It seems that the Christian Minister's Association says that they have never ordained Mr. Bentley. World Ministry Fellowship, following what happened in Lakeland, has "moved in quickly and taken action" pulling his U.S. credentials.

I guess that Mr. Bentley now desperately needs the kind of formal ordination service that he now says never happened at Lakeland. I would advise Mr. Wagner to stay by his phone, just in case.

Comments

Riveting.

Posted by: Matt | 2009-04-18 9:42:39 PM

Stop picking on Tod, I suggest you look at Hollywood for the root of perversity:

Interesting how Hollywood and all their lack of any morals seem to love the movie “The Reader” I should not be surprised in the least. I watched it and am sickened that I did.
The fact that Kate Winslet did what in today’s law would count as statutory rape of a minor does not seem to bother the critics, is sickening. This former Nazi death guard leads the charge to murder 300 Jews and then carries on her abuse onto a 15 year old boy. I wonder what critics would say if a movie was made of an older man undressing in front of a 15 year old girl and then bathing her and seducing the child? Then repeating this over and over? Would the supporters of this movie be so quick to praise it? I doubt it. 15 year olds naked with an adult on film is what places people in possession of kiddie porn yet this film gets the Oscar nod. Oh how far we have come to legitimize such filth today. Yet we wonder why perverse behavior with children is on the rise in our society? Hmm I suggest we look no further than Hollywood producers.

Posted by: Merle Terlesky | 2009-04-19 12:47:14 AM

I went to a Todd Bentley revival once. I don't think I'd go to one again.He doesnt have to sit around eating locusts and wearing camel fur, but someone who claims to be a prophet who has close to 100,000 of personal 'treasures' on display, smells fishy to me.

Posted by: Sam T | 2009-04-19 7:54:57 AM

The silence of the pervert and false prophet Bob Jones right now regarding the Todd Bentley saga is deafening. And the same with all the other false ones in the Third Wave including Stephen Strang, Stephen Strader, and John Arnott.

Todd Bentley, the criminally convicted homosexual pedophile turned drunken heretic and adulterer who kicked old ladies in the face and stomach on YouTube at the failed Lakeland, Florida counterfeit revival has entered into a biblically adulterous re- marriage while under a “process of restoration” led by biblically proven false prophet Rick Joyner.

Bentley was ring master at a debacle of lunacy and false healing debunked on national TV orchestrated by the infamous Strader family, whom the District Attorney implicated in financial scandals defrauding elderly Christians of millions of dollars. While the Florida District Attorney publicly names Pastor Steve Strader as complicit in the swindling, his brother was sent to prison for over 30 years as a professional gangster under American anti racketeering RICO statutes.

Despite its unbiblical doctrines and practices, Wendy Alec of the so-called “God Channel” denounced opponents of the madness and heresy as being of Satan. Lunatic fringe figures such John Arnott, Rick Joyner, Che An, Bill Johnson, and C. Peter Wagner decided this fiasco was a revival in the character of the similarly failed counterfeit revivals in Toronto and Pensacola.

Bob Jones was debunked as a sexual predator with vulnerable women while Paul Cain was publicly disclosed to be a drunken pervert with a life long history of alcoholism and homosexuality.

So what happened to all the supporters of Todd Bentley at his Coronation at Lakeland, Florida who were very vocal about what God was going to do with and as a result of Todd Bentley? (Todd Bentley's Apostolic and Prophetic Commissioning 4/4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAnNSiZfgvI )

I guess the deceivers and liars think that that if they close their eyes, their mouths and their eyes it will all go away and be just a bad nightmare?

If only such things happened in life where we can just change the TV channel whenever we don’t want others to know how bad and deceived we really are!

But real life is not like that!

Posted by: WALTER KAMBULOW | 2009-04-19 9:51:49 AM

Stop picking on Tod, I suggest you look at Hollywood for the root of perversity:

Hey Matt - Hollywood doesn't claim to be a Christian or to speak on behalf of God while lying, adulterous, thieving, pervert Todd Bentley does!

If if the house of God is full of filth what do you expect from others?

I do not mean that sarcastically. I'm serious. Maybe you don't let him be a minister again, but certainly you let him participate in services and let him enter the House of God.

Posted by: Robert Seymour | 2009-04-19 1:44:45 PM

Also, isn't focusing on this engaging in gossip?

Posted by: Robert Seymour | 2009-04-19 2:12:29 PM

Robert Seymour - Why don't you read you bible and see what Jesus taught?

MT 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

LK 17:3 "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

It's a fact that Todd Bentley is an unrepentant thief, liar, adulterer, and scoundrel who has demonstrated by his words or deeds.

So how can we forgiven some one who is not a Christian but a false prophet who has been rebuked and refuses to repent? We cannot!

And Rick Joyner, the deceiver, is not addressing at all the real issues like Todd Bentley was and is still an unrepentant drunkard, liar, thief, adulterer and wizard who has not confessed his sins nor repented of them! For example Todd asked for 1,000 people to donate $ 1,000 dollars ($ 1million) so he could make a down payment of $ 475,000 on property on a lake in Lakeland for a love nest for Todd and his mistress Jessa.

Todd stole the money under false pretense and he is obligated by God’s word to restore the money!
And Todd’s wife Shonnah Bentley was just as much of a liar and deceiver who carried on with the masquerade of a perfect and wonderful marriage at Todd’s coronation in Lakeland but knew all about Todd’s being a drunkard and a womanizer!

It’s a fact that all those who were involved in this demonic revival and claimed to be super apostles and prophets and having absolute no discernment about Todd being a womanizer, a drunkard, an adulterer, a liar and a thief before and during the revival! So they and their supporters are not different from Todd or Rick. They are liars and deceivers who are not sons of God but sons of hell!

Posted by: WALTER KAMBULOW | 2009-04-19 3:46:39 PM

The article above states:

"It was later revealed..."adultery" with an intern whom he has now married."

Whom he has now married???

He is not married in the eyes of God! This marriage is unlawful according to the Word of God. Have we forgotten the doctrine of marriage set forth in God's Word?

Luke 16:18, “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.”

Meaning...if you divorce your wife and remarry, you are committing adultery and adultery is a sexual relationship with someone who is not your spouse, so neither of the remarried parties are in a legal marriage according to God.

“A husband must not divorce his wife.”
1 Corinthians 7:11

“The Lord was witness to the covenant made at your marriage.”
Malachi 2:14

“A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives.”
1 Corinthians 7:39

“Thou shall not commit adultery.”
Exodus 20:14

“The man who commits adultery is an utter fool, for he destroys his own soul.”
Proverbs 6:32

“Adulterers...will not inherit the Kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9

God’s doctrine on divorce and remarriage is eternal and it will not change for any of us!

Look up in the pulpit, it’s a wolf, it’s a demon…NO, it’s super Todd!
Able to leap over God’s truth with a single bound!
Able to heal the sick by kicking the afflicted to death!
Able to supernaturally travel to far off places, third heaven, open portals!
Able to magically change his wife into a younger woman!
Able to decieve some of the very elect!

Just picture his super hero costume, black tights, with a big skull face in orange
with a black and silver cape! ICKY!!!

Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18

Those who would call themselves by the name of God should abide by that same God's teachings.

Posted by: R | 2009-04-20 12:26:10 PM

I wonderful if Todd Bentley and his friends fear God? It doesn’t seem like they do!

Fear Him
"The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. 1 Samuel 2:6
In the meantime, when an innumerable multitude of people had gathered together, so that they trampled one another, He began to say to His disciples first of all, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. "For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. "Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops. "And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him. Luke 12:1-5

http://walthope.tripod.com/fearhim.htm

http://www.scribd.com/tag/walter%20kambulow

Posted by: WALTER KAMBULOW | 2009-04-20 12:35:49 PM

My God why do we continue to give false prophets and teachers avenues in which to deceive more and more people. This is not Gossip. Especially considering he is the one standing up there claiming to be a man of God. He took people's money on false pretenses claimed to speak and act for God. I love how when these false prophets get caught and are reprimanded it becomes Satan is attacking me and these horrible people who are not godly who are just trying to bring me down. One's calling does not supercede his need to be obedient to God's word it is based on his obedience to God's word. God does not need us we need him and as it says in scripture he can make inanimate objects his mouth piece and even a donkey so he does not put up with adulterers, liars, and theives in his pulpit.

The charitable giving of professional athletes, with a focus on Holyfield and Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner, was the subject of a piece run Sunday by ESPN?s Outside the Lines news magazine.
World Changers and Missouri-based Joyce Meyer Ministries, which Warner is affiliated with, both preach the prosperity gospel. It states, in a nutshell, that God will bless those most who contribute substantially to the church.
When asked about Holyfield?s enormous contribution, World Changers Pastor Creflo Dollar said, ?I?m as comfortable as I would be by someone whose tithe is five dollars.?
Pressed about Meyer?s recently sold $2 million home, Warner compared international ministry heads to corporate CEOs and wealthy athletes such as himself. ?Does it mean I shouldn?t have (wealth) just because I?m a Christian?? he asked rhetorically.
ESPN goes on to examine Dollar, Meyer and fellow televangelist T.D. Jakes and their lifestyles. It airs critics? points of view and points out that Meyer and Dollar are part of the ?Grassley Six? under a Senate investigation led by Iowa Republican Charles Grassley. Meyer made recently made her financial records public at Grassley?s behest.
Regardless of your opinion of the prosperity gospel, ESPN wraps up with a telling statement by Holyfield, who is facing foreclosure on his mansion.

Posted by: Susan | 2009-04-22 12:08:17 PM

Mr Walter Kambulow.

Your original post was a cut and paste job from an article by Jacob Prasch. Unfortunately although I am dismayed at the whole Todd Bentley affair your lack of quotation marks and non attributing of the article discredits your views.

Posted by: Paul | 2009-04-22 5:01:06 PM

Paul - Since you are being a legalist what is your total name?

It seems you have an axe to grind? Is it because you don't like it when Pentecostal Pastors like Todd Bentley are shown to be wolves in sheep's clothing as well as adulterers, perverts and thieves?

Were you aware that Jacob Prasch in all his articles doesn't attribute paragraphs from others to any one? See http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/news/usa/false-prophet-rick-joyner-todd-bentleys-re-marriage

Posted by: Barry | 2009-04-22 11:10:20 PM

To Walter Kambulow - But, to me and to you in the end God will receives the glory. I am like you, I have no problems with you. Keep up the good work.
David Lister on behalf of Jacob Prasch

Posted by: Barry | 2009-04-26 9:27:06 AM

Pen Itent in his article The Ponzi Prosperity Gospel of May 4, 2009 http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/religionandtheology/1374/ writes:

The Prosperity Gospel, also known as a facet of the Word of Faith movement (a louder voice in Pentecostalism), has been writing checks with its lips that’s its theology can’t cash. Last year’s Pew Foundation mega-poll, which surveyed nearly 35,000 people (one of the largest religion polls ever accomplished), revealed a few interesting facts about Christians in the Pentecostal tradition, among them:
• Pentecostals have the lowest incomes of any other Christian denomination.
• Pentecostals have the least education of any other Christian denomination.

The results show that Pentecostals have the most high school dropouts, the fewest college graduates, and the fewest post-graduates. But the most interesting thing is that they earn the least annual income of any other Christian tradition polled. This is shocking, considering that a main feature in popular Pentecostalism is the Prosperity Gospel, where church members are promised that God will make them rich beyond their wildest dreams if they tithe generously and believe that they will receive the money.

Posted by: Susan | 2009-05-06 7:37:19 AM

What does it tell us when a wolf speaks out against another wolf? It's a sign of what?

Benny Hinn Speaks Out Against the Florida Revival
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/BHinn39.htm

How come top Charismatics WOF people like Copeland, Dollar, Duplantis, and Roberts didn't support Todd Bentley or the Lakeland revival?

What did they know what others didn't know? Did they know that NAR and Revival Alliance including Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Che Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott were liars and deceivers?

Posted by: John | 2009-05-09 3:53:15 AM

Bentley is NOTHING more then a shameless con man who learned the tricks of this con artist fake healing scheme circuit years ago from other con men in the same con trade.

All of these "healing ministry" types are total and absolute con artists and heretics, they were all warned about in the Bible. The healings done by Jesus and the apostles were done to fulfil specific prophecies about the coming of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, the specific examples of healing miracles as done by Jesus and the apostles did not continue after the Bible was finished any more then any of the other miracles done through them continued such as walking on water, drinking any deadly thing, moving mountains, teleportation, speaking in other languages you never learned before, etc. etc. All these were special miracles given to fulfil prophecies. None of any of these con men would dare follow me into an orphanage for children born blind, or to a morgue, or to a leper colony, or a paraplegic center and have and true healing miracles occur as were done daily through Jesus and the apostles, why? Because THEY ARE ALL SHAMELESS CON MEN (most are actually secret athiests) who know that their endorphin induced stage tricks only work in a loud trance induced crowd setting upon the naive and desperate, not upon those who are like the Biblical examples who were truly healed of things which have never happened since Biblical times.

After the Biblical supernatural miracles finished with the finishing of the bible, "healings" today are nothing more than examples induced through medical procedures, drug induced numbing, good nutrition and exercise. These are all combined with the natural NORMAL restorative abilities which God put into ALL human bodies to begin with since creation.

The fact remains that praying Christians get sick and die or are restored over time through the above examples at the same rates as any other group of people. Prayer is meant for communing with God and expressing your love for others to interceed for their sufferings and eternal salvation in Christ. The physical healings done by Jesus and through the apostles were only meant to be a metaphor to point people to the eternal spiritual healing and restoration one can have through the work of Jesus. Spiritual healing/"salvation" is the whole point of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead and performing healing miracles as well as to fulfil prophecies.

No matter how much we pray to the Lord we are not going to see someone raised from the dead in a morgue after days dead like the Biblical examples, or a man born truly blind be instantly healed. Such examples like that were only done in Biblical times to fulfil specific prophecies as many other things were done to fulfil specific prophecies.

I dare anyone who doubts these truths at any time to bring every single "healing minister" on the face of the earth to meet with me, and I will bring them all to places where all their lies and con schemes will be exposed and the world will see them for who they really are, nothing more then shameless con artists abusing mankind for some easy money, who have nothing whatsoever to do with Biblical Christianity.

Posted by: Max | 2009-05-09 11:53:49 AM

A few years ago a missionary friend of mine returned to the United States with some exciting stories. In the continent where he was preaching, most of the people had never heard of Jesus. They had never been exposed to missionaries and because of this, they had to be taught the basics of God and His Word as a child would be taught!

In sharing his testimony the missionary said that literally thousands of people were accepting Jesus and some great miracles had taken place. He said the blind regained their sight, the lame walked and a man had been raised from the dead.

It was at that point someone looked at him and said, “That is really hard to believe.” The missionary looked back and made a statement I’ll never forget. He said, “You find it hard to believe? That, my friend, is why you haven’t seen it.” How right he was.