It's the Titan's honest truth. I can't count the number of times I've heard stories about black belts getting their butts whipped in bar fights against drunken rednecks.

You can predict a professional (for a given value of predict). That makes him less dangerous. You can never predict a newbie. That makes him the most dangerous opponent out there: the wild card.

It could be that, or it could be that what black belts get taught isn't necessarily the most useful things in a practical fighting situation in a busy environment like a bar. My martial Tai Chi / Maori stick fighting / English pugilism instructor was careful to emphasize fight structure in addition to attack and defensive forms.

I imagine a skilled fighter, knowing what they are capable of and wanting to avoid any deaths in that kind of situation, would probably be holding back a fair bit. Also, I think there's laws in the US and maybe other places where, if a person knows lethal combat techniques and uses them unnecessarily, it's the same kind of criminal charge as using a lethal weapon.

Parson is one turn away from GK. Once the dwagon relay is set up, that is. There are a pile of dwagons at Jetstone (and it only takes two) to provide the first leg of that relay.

Do we have confirmation on this from somewhere? It's highly plausible that two dwagons could carry Parson in a net, but this is Erfworld we're talking about, here.

Please bear in mind that the last time Parson tried to ride a Dwagon, he did a faceplant. Now, the net idea might work, but it would depend on whether they were african Dwagons or european Dwagons . . .

Random crunchy note (I apologize if it's been mentioned previously on the thread): the maximum number of targets for a red dwagon must be either five or six. (If four, the three dwagons wouldn't have been able to tag Artemis; if seven, just the two would have gotten her.)

EDIT: Actually, if Rob is being scrupulous with the math, it must be five, since Artemis states that the number of knights (twelve) is greater than the total number of targets the dwagons can hit.

Parson is one turn away from GK. Once the dwagon relay is set up, that is. There are a pile of dwagons at Jetstone (and it only takes two) to provide the first leg of that relay.

Do we have confirmation on this from somewhere? It's highly plausible that two dwagons could carry Parson in a net, but this is Erfworld we're talking about, here.

Please bear in mind that the last time Parson tried to ride a Dwagon, he did a faceplant. Now, the net idea might work, but it would depend on whether they were african Dwagons or european Dwagons . . .

... yes, that is why I said what I said.

Beeskee wrote:

I imagine a skilled fighter, knowing what they are capable of and wanting to avoid any deaths in that kind of situation, would probably be holding back a fair bit.

Sometimes. On the other hand, they can outright lose if they overestimate their opponent. It's aggravated if what they've been taught is how to do moves, and not how to fight. That was why my instructor taught us a bit of english pugilism - there are only like four moves, six counting the blocks, and only four if you factor in mirror symmetry. Four not particularly complicated moves, and the rest is choosing what to do with them in a fight.

My instructor and his assistant held that until you know what you're dealing with, an iron guard is the key. That way you aren't going to get nailed by something crazy (also, and more importantly, it leaves time for talking things down, if that's still possible/appropriate).

It's the Titan's honest truth. I can't count the number of times I've heard stories about black belts getting their butts whipped in bar fights against drunken rednecks.

You can predict a professional (for a given value of predict). That makes him less dangerous. You can never predict a newbie. That makes him the most dangerous opponent out there: the wild card.

It could be that, or it could be that what black belts get taught isn't necessarily the most useful things in a practical fighting situation in a busy environment like a bar. My martial Tai Chi / Maori stick fighting / English pugilism instructor was careful to emphasize fight structure in addition to attack and defensive forms.

It's true. It's usually just martial artists that get their asses kicked. Soldiers and policemen rarely do.

Stick fighting, boxing ... why that's two out of three ingredients of that "baritsu"* thing Sherlock Holmes was supposed to know. Does your instructor wear a checkered hat and a habit of calling things elementary?

We had an elderly fellow here who ran a fencing salon, and who had been one of Errol Flynn's fight coordinators way back in the day. He was a really nice guy, and was purely wicked with any kind of sharp, pointy object you could think of. He was in his late 80s, and carried a cane. One night, after closing his studio, three of the local pre-emptive wealth re-distribution specialists decided to relieve him of his wealth . . . Two of them wound up in the hospital with concussions, and the third managed to escape with only a broken arm. None of them laid a hand on him . . .

The cops thought it was hilariously funny, especially since the one with the broken arm showed up in the emergency room about the same time as his two unconscious buddies. It was quite the buzz that an octogenarian took out three homies with a cane, and he wound up adding cane fighting classes for the seniors (of which we have more than our share here). And to look at him, you never in a million years would have thought he was more than just another old geezer with a cane. And in case you didn't know, Christopher Lee was an Olympic sabre fencer back in the 50's, and SAS during WWII . . . just another lethal old guy . . .

Do we have confirmation on this from somewhere? It's highly plausible that two dwagons could carry Parson in a net, but this is Erfworld we're talking about, here.

I wasn't so much suggesting that Parson could be carried by two dwagons as I was suggesting that one dwagon at Jetstone could ferry him out to one dwagon at the farthest away point towards GK, as the first leg in a relay.
But as others have reminded me, Parson is a heavy and cannot ride dwagons...

Beeskee wrote:

Also, I think there's laws in the US and maybe other places where, if a person knows lethal combat techniques and uses them unnecessarily, it's the same kind of criminal charge as using a lethal weapon.

I've heard the same kind of stories. I imagine that it is rather difficult to prove in court that a person is a "lethal weapon" due to X years of martial arts training. If they are a televised extreme fighting personality, sure. But how do you even prove that a person has taken martial arts training without some serious background checks? I also believe that a person could train in martial arts for exercise for decades and still be a lousy in-fighter.

drachefly wrote:

My instructor and his assistant held that until you know what you're dealing with, an iron guard is the key. That way you aren't going to get nailed by something crazy (also, and more importantly, it leaves time for talking things down, if that's still possible/appropriate).

I don't disagree, and I was taught the same way (in my entire 6 months of classes...). But the redneck with the flying tackle or the grappling attack is very hard to block. Once the fight is reduced to who can poke out whose eye first, martial arts training has its value greatly reduced.

Sieggy wrote:

It was quite the buzz that an octogenarian took out three homies with a cane, and he wound up adding cane fighting classes for the seniors (of which we have more than our share here). And to look at him, you never in a million years would have thought he was more than just another old geezer with a cane.

That is the exact inverse of a local martial arts instructor. His name is Jhoon Rhee. He has been mugged multiple times. That is not so say that he isn't a consummate martial artist, I only point out that being ~150 lbs and outnumbered reduces martial arts training to the skill of being able to outrun people who may smoke or otherwise be in lousy shape, but who can handle the 30 seconds of exertion it takes to gang up on a smaller person and beat the crap out of them.

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