The question is how soon the window starts opening. I have nothing to back this up, but I think we'll start seeing some green shoots this year, especially with the schedule looking a little softer than usual.

I like the way they're getting reasonably priced but solid depth at positions where the roster is thin. The Jackson and Bunkley acquisitions look very good. I don't know anything about Greco, but he played for Shurmur last year so they know what they're getting. Now for a cornerback.

e0y2e3 wrote:Correct yourself, Mangini purged this roster and laid the ground up framework. Heckert walked in the door w/ most of the dirty work done.

This.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

mistero wrote:Not so, Mangini brought in a ton a very old players he was comfortable with...Bowens, Coleman, Barton... guys like Robaire Smith, Roth,Shelton Brown,..he wanted vets.

You aren't stupid mistro, those vets were extremely short term stop gaps that were meant to be replaced by young talent. And Mangini had nothing to do w/ Brown, so that is absurd to even mention.

Mangini came in and took short term high character system old guys to replace the big money he was shipping out.

He did the dirty work, to say otherwise is absurd.

Just talking about this with a friend today.

Funniest thing thus far is all the flack Mangini took for bringing in Jets players with him. Yet every time I turn on the TV it seems an ex-Eagle is heading our way. Yet I have yet to hear anyone else really talk about it. Even with Bunkley, who is somewhere between meh and OK. Even with the people that don't like the move. Not a word about it being "Another Heckert Eagle".

Not exactly , more like a dude with a tude after having been passed over in Miami and picked up as leavings by us .

He wanted paid after he walked in and became the best linebacker on the squad , and told Heckert who doesn't value linebackers , to shove it when asked to switch back to a 43 DE after excelling in the 34 .

Now that he's gone to NE look for him to have every bit the success Vrabel enjoyed in revitalizing his career after being discarded by the inbred.

Meanwhile we have Gocong the hump to play MLB Nyquill of the two torn pecks and Fujita soon to be on life support to play the most important phase in the 43 your fuckin linebackers. .

Tatupo better be on a charter , i don't give a sheeit if we have to outbid Philly . he'll still be cheap and just the hard ass we need to man the middle .

Butt Heckert is protecting Gocongs butt like they did Colts cherry , and not even looking at upgrades.

Chart stolen from Denn on the OBR. This was last year. We were the 3rd oldest team. Mangini's team, was filled with old guys on fumes. This year there is no way we are not the youngest team. Quite the turn around.

mistero wrote:Not so, Mangini brought in a ton a very old players he was comfortable with...Bowens, Coleman, Barton... guys like Robaire Smith, Roth,Shelton Brown,..he wanted vets.

You aren't stupid mistro, those vets were extremely short term stop gaps that were meant to be replaced by young talent. And Mangini had nothing to do w/ Brown, so that is absurd to even mention.

Mangini came in and took short term high character system old guys to replace the big money he was shipping out.

He did the dirty work, to say otherwise is absurd.

Just talking about this with a friend today.

Funniest thing thus far is all the flack Mangini took for bringing in Jets players with him. Yet every time I turn on the TV it seems an ex-Eagle is heading our way. Yet I have yet to hear anyone else really talk about it. Even with Bunkley, who is somewhere between meh and OK. Even with the people that don't like the move. Not a word about it being "Another Heckert Eagle".

One things that goes on in that NFL multiple times, every year, are head coaches making the decision that will reflect best on their immediate coaching situation - even if it is not what is best for the team. Gotta give Mangini credit, and it's kinda catch-22 in the sense that one of the things that made Mangini unpopular with some fans and most media was his young Belichik like attitiude of "I don't give a shit what you think."

The reality is, that FINALLY was exactly what this team AND THIS OWNER needed to start straightening things out. I think in a different time Mangini would be around to see things play out. But you gotta get results FAST now, (which is why it's so hard to find someone to take on the process that Mangini did) bottom line era.

But this team's situation was required more than a patch job and a soft schedule.

We can argue whether other facets of Mangini's coaching style would work or not. But what is not arguable is eo's statement. The guy did the dirty work, damned what anyone else thought. Salute.

IMO, way too much credit is being heeped in Mangini's direction for doing the "dirty work".

Every new regiem (sp?) disgards players and turns over the roster and fills in with "their kind of player". What did he really do different? (besides sticking with an OC who couldnt run an NFL offense and ruined 2 QBs)

We are doing things Holmgren's way now and that has led in the past to winning.

We did things Mangini's way after doing things Savage/Crennel way after Butchum's way. None of these guys had the track record of winning, they came from winning programs under Belichick, Ozzie & Jimmy Johnson.

I like the direction we are heading, of course 90% of what it'll take for us to be winners is for our draft picks to hit.

I've said many times, that you get your stars from the draft and use FA to fill in holes and improve weaknesses. Spending big bucks on FA will soon lead to breaking the bank and lead to team dis-mantleing. Getting a big FA when close (like Philly or NYJ) is different than our situation.

Funniest thing thus far is all the flack Mangini took for bringing in Jets players with him. Yet every time I turn on the TV it seems an ex-Eagle is heading our way. Yet I have yet to hear anyone else really talk about it. Even with Bunkley, who is somewhere between meh and OK. Even with the people that don't like the move. Not a word about it being "Another Heckert Eagle".

You talking about people you know, or people on this board? I can only speak for myself, but I didn't like the deal all that much, and I have noticed the normal trend of a GM/Coach bringing in "his" guys, but I was never critical of Mangini's moves bringing in those Jets, so it wouldn't make sense for me to be pointing that out.

Either way, you are correct in general, dont hear a damn thing from the people that were vocal about that aspect of Mangini's moves...

Wrong, Mangini could have come in here, paid Kellen, kept Braylon around, and on and on.

He stripped the team bare, filled the roster w/ short term old guys because, well, you can only draft so many guys a year and openly punted wins in order to build the team the right way.

I get that you guys hate Mangini, but for fucks sake I’m not calling him a great coach or anything else. Just straight up pointing out that he is the one that cleaned the roster of all the “bad” contracts and put the team in a position to become the youngest team in the league.

Saying otherwise is literally just being an ass because you don’t like the guy.

And claiming the Mangini ruined two QBs pretty soundly shows that you just hate the guy.

e0y2e3 wrote:Wrong, Mangini could have come in here, paid Kellen, kept Braylon around, and on and on.

He stripped the team bare, filled the roster w/ short term old guys because, well, you can only draft so many guys a year and openly punted wins in order to build the team the right way.

I get that you guys hate Mangini, but for fucks sake I’m not calling him a great coach or anything else. Just straight up pointing out that he is the one that cleaned the roster of all the “bad” contracts and put the team in a position to become the youngest team in the league.

Saying otherwise is literally just being an ass because you don’t like the guy.

And claiming the Mangini ruined two QBs pretty soundly shows that you just hate the guy.

SD:

Mangy was a retard .

He passed on two franchise QB's and a an All pro Legacy pick at linebacker to draft a center and then essentially garbaged out on the bounty of second round picks he gleaned with questionable choices, by passing better talents .

To move out of the top five and give up Sanchez was idiocy , to not garner a #1 pick for the move was the epitome of ineptitude.

This ham handed bastard produced an offense that couldn't fool a caveman , while running a social security retirement home on defense .

The new rules regarding training camp stemmed from this flaming fucking Jackass working the legs out from under his team .

Thanks to his stoopidity , Cleveland was regarded as the armpit of the NFL , the siberia where free agents go to die .

Fuck that lousy butt sucking asshole ,the horse he rode in on and his entire ignorant family and family tree , Clay Mathews should have been a Brown , for fucking that up , his name will forever hang in the hall of shame thru eternity on the Browns wall of shame just one notch below fart Model.

^ yep, that sure does have a lot to do w/ him stripping the roster and not locking the team up w/ any long term contracts as well as him being willing to take the losses to strip the roster.

That is absolutely what you were talking about in that post. No way you just turned this singlular point into an excuse to scream about Mangini's drafting. Your dumb old ass would never try and hijack a thread like that.

^ yep, that sure does have a lot to do w/ him stripping the roster and not locking the team up w/ any long term contracts as well as him being willing to take the losses to strip the roster.

That is absolutely what you were talking about in that post. No way you just turned this singlular point into an excuse to scream about Mangini's drafting. Your dumb old ass would never try and hijack a thread like that.

If you want to give Mangini credit for purging the roster of bad contracts and personalities, (and thats a fair point) then you are crediting his work as the GM. If thats the case it is only fair that SD harp on the other important duty of a GM, drafting.

Mangini gets credit for knowing "character", but loses on all levels knowing "talent".

I am pointing out one singular thing he did good that put the team in the position it is in now.

Magini's draft has nothing at all to do w/ this thread and SD is just trying to get attention as always.

SD:

I don't crave the attention you covet on the Cavs forum , my comments address other comments including nonsensical elements who would praise a f u c k i n butt boyee pseudo coach fake.

Given credit for dumping talent in lieu of working with it .

You don't dump a Kellen Winslow and replace him with a Robert Royal , nor do you dump a scatter brain stonehanded Meatchicken albeit talented idiot with Robiskie and Masso and rate praise.

We didn't nurture or develop anybody under Mangy , Hillis was an accident and Colt an afterthought , the handling of Quinn and DA destroyed both , he had his own handpicked GM yes man and screwed over him .

Worst talent evaluator ever ............by far .

To depict Eric Mangy ass Mangini as anything more than an epic abysmal failure are the pandering of clueless sheep.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

motherscratcher wrote:Nobody is praising Mangini that I can see. Just pointing out that Heckert has a pretty clean slate to work with. And the slate is clean in large part to Mangini cleaning it.

Heckert and Homie choked off mangy in midstream.

He was given only transitional draftees ,ie players whose skillset easily translated to a 43 changeover .

No 34 linebackers or 34 Dlineman were drafted in a class chock full of talent at both positions , while the 34 linebackers signed in free agency came from 43 systems with the exception of ROTH the one true 34 pickup and he as a Miami castoff.

They cut him off at the legs, because he had the roster so beret of real talent , they brought in guys under his watchlet him take the fall for the inevitable and bought themselves two drafts worth of talent and a honeymoon in their second year , when they made the changeover a year late .

motherscratcher wrote:Nobody is praising Mangini that I can see. Just pointing out that Heckert has a pretty clean slate to work with. And the slate is clean in large part to Mangini cleaning it.

Heckert and Homie choked off mangy in midstream.

He was given only transitional draftees ,ie players whose skillset easily translated to a 43 changeover .

No 34 linebackers or 34 Dlineman were drafted in a class chock full of talent at both positions , while the 34 linebackers signed in free agency came from 43 systems with the exception of ROTH the one true 34 pickup and he as a Miami castoff.

They cut him off at the legs, because he had the roster so beret of real talent , they brought in guys under his watchlet him take the fall for the inevitable and bought themselves two drafts worth of talent and a honeymoon in their second year , when they made the changeover a year late .

SoulDawg

Glad you finally admit Holmgren and Heckert threw Mangini under the bus by purposely stocking the team with players who do not fit his system. Then he went out and won games that shit roster.

Still to effing stupid too see that I'm not complimenting Mangini on anything but cleaning the roster.

Still want to jump up and down and scream about Mangini's warts as if someone here is trying to have an in depth discussion w/ you about his warts and pluses.

Still a fucking waste of bandwidth.

Today's roster is clean in large part to Mangini takes lumps to get it that way. This is a singular point and one your delusional old ass hasn't even mentioned yet in this thread. Instead you're talking about every single other aspect of Mangini's tenure. You're a fucking clown SD.

e0y2e3 wrote:Still to effing stupid too see that I'm not complimenting Mangini on anything but cleaning the roster.

Still want to jump up and down and scream about Mangini's warts as if someone here is trying to have an in depth discussion w/ you about his warts and pluses.

Still a fucking waste of bandwidth.

Today's roster is clean in large part to Mangini takes lumps to get it that way. This is a singular point and one your delusional old ass hasn't even mentioned yet in this thread. Instead you're talking about every single other aspect of Mangini's tenure. You're a fucking clown SD.

SD:

Heckert dumped Shaun Rodgers , who cut his teeth on the 43 and which is all he talked about playing every snap he took in the 34 .

That was a roster cap saving move with the intent to go young.

Mangy cut Winslow and Braylon , because he couldn't handle them or anybody else that didn't Seig Heil at his Mangy presense, while babying Rodgers and letting him do any damn thing he wanted in camp .

This was not the mark of a guy who cleaned house but a less demented Butchum who could work with pros already trained in his system , without the personality to develop a cohesive team after he wrecked it.

He dumped two guys he could neither convert or control who wanted out and a moron in Jerome Harrison who wanted to rob the Browns sans a gun because of delusional conceptions about his ability, yeah what a tough sheriff cleaning up Dodge City .

Meanwhile back at the ranch , we ran a retirement home for ex Jets who should have been collecting social security instead of Browns paychecks .

Over paid underperforming stiffs of his choosing .

All coaches dump guys from the previous regime , loud mouth overpaid discontents make easy targets especially in hard times in a blue collar city , but without Heckert riding herd over the checkbook , the Browns would have been bulging in red ink as Mangy paid every free agent he could identify as 34 talent to make his splash .

Helll a second round pick to the Jets for Gholston is not inconceivable .

OTOH.

Heckert has refrained from taking the sucker bait and overpaying free agents , and shipped out a productive Sean Rodgers who would have served no purpose other than get in the way of the future, it wasn't popular but it was visionary .

That was a true move of someone who had vision , not the petulant mechanizations of a an insecure puppet master aka Eric the red Mangini who your showering with false praise , because he made the Browns older not younger .

The real house cleaners like Heckert replace those big contracts with youth,not spread it around to a his old gang of Jet castoffs, and transform the entire team by raising the talent in the process thru the hard road of the draft and picking thru the dustbin.

To net a Fuckin center out of that draft with all those extra picks defeats any claims of success your imagining he did as far as reshuffling the high priced culprits with those nasty contracts .

Hell any damn fool can do that , and what you end up with is the wreckage he wrought.

Peyton Hillis is the only reason Mangy's head ain't hanging on a pike at the City gates .

You hate Mangini. We all fucking get it. STFU and stop turning this thread into your gawd damned agenda.

Mangini purged the roster, took the lumps of losing and didn't sign a single FA irresponsibly. Every move was made to keep all vets on short term deals and set up the team to reload w/ youth.

I'm done w/ your fucking useless agenda ladden stupid ass.

This thread is about the current roster, and the only player Heckert had to cut this year that was a vet he signed. Mangini laid that groundwork and to say otherwise is a complete and utter fucking agenda driven lie.

I don't give a fuck about anything else you mouth breathing dumb ass.

But hey, I look forward to you mentioning drafting a center for the 500th time in a thread that has nothing at all to do w/ it.

The Mangy process devalued both to the extent we couldn't get a bag of beans for DA less than 24 months from a trip to the probowl , and Quinn was passed off as excess luggage in a package deal after we spent multiple picks to add him .

If you draft Sanchez or Freeman both could have been dealt , with the simple phrase of giving a player an opportunity elsewhere.

The week by week musical chair circle jerk of who the starter was gonna be from week to week , sure raised their value didn't it ..

You hate Mangini. We all fucking get it. STFU and stop turning this thread into your gawd damned agenda.

Mangini purged the roster, took the lumps of losing and didn't sign a single FA irresponsibly. Every move was made to keep all vets on short term deals and set up the team to reload w/ youth.

I'm done w/ your fucking useless agenda ladden stupid ass.

This thread is about the current roster, and the only player Heckert had to cut this year that was a vet he signed. Mangini laid that groundwork and to say otherwise is a complete and utter fucking agenda driven lie.

I don't give a fuck about anything else you mouth breathing dumb ass.

But hey, I look forward to you mentioning drafting a center for the 500th time in a thread that has nothing at all to do w/ it.

Maybe you can bring up DA and BQ again too, that's always fun.

Fucking waste of oxygen.

SD:

Hey stoopid , you unwittingly brought this conversation right back to the bullseye I had it .

You want to give mangy credit for purging the roster so he could rebuild with youth , .

Thats nice except you can't ignore now the point I was making depicting Mangy as the worst draft master ever in the Browns front office .

How exactly was that gonna work .

He passed on two franchise QB's didn't maximize the Jet trade and glean a number one and wasted the entire balance of the draft on players who would struggle to be back ups on good teams .

The Trolka of ROBO MASSO and VIEKUNE is the three stooges of disaster , but wait it only gets worse .

Now we have to hear your Anti Christ cycle babble that he was a savior in disguise cut short before he got started.

Oh the Pain , the shame the indignity that had to be suffered by our Fearless leader ....

Mutha Fucka ................Puhleeeese.

SoulDawg

Last edited by SoulDawg74 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not committing to a single bad long term contract and openly cutting expensive players set the team up to reload through youth.

I never fucking said "Mangini brought in that youth" crack addict.

I said set up the path to bring in youth. One simple fucking thing. I never said Mangini was a good GM. I never said he brought in talent or drafted well. I said he left the roster clean.

Get your head out of your ass and stop hitting the pipe fuck.

SD:

Oh Eyesore deary , if you could please remove Mangy's throbbing member from your cavernous and over eager lips and throat , I'd like to point out the teensy insy bitsy little flaw in your plan depicting Mangy as the World dominant Brown rebuilder.

He can't spot talent , , any asshole who blew that many shots in a draft where he had full control , couldn't spot a hooker in a whore house , let alone rebuild the Cleveland Browns after gutting them .

Without the ability to execute the latter , he can get no credit for in effect for just laundering the roster with pink slips, and removing anybody who made more money than him or didn't click their heels and salute .

One thing is useless without the other , and sans the demonstrated ability to draft , which he amply demonstrated by being the HMFIC presiding over the worst draft in Cleveland Browns history , your praise for destroying the roster with the intent to rebuild are misplaced .

Thank you very much for your attention on this matter and you may now resume blowing your masters Johnson to your undying content .

Your attempt to isolate the one thing he did in a vacuum , is like saying the Son of Sam Killer was really a good artist .

You are right, I'm a huge Mangini supporter. That's why I am in here writing over and over how well he drafted and developed QBs.

You're a fucking waste of oxygen, as I said before. Crack addled to a point you cannot even differentiate point A from point B.

Good for you.

I couldn't be saying that his ability to succesfully execute the cleaning benefitted Heckert. No way that could be my point. Because that can't be correct since he can't draft?????? <-- your ultimate point, which is as nonsensical as your annual QB of the year lovefest.

Last edited by e0y2e3 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SoulDawg74 wrote:Oh Eyesore deary , if you could please remove Mangy's throbbing member from your cavernous and over eager lips and throat , I'd like to point out the teensy insy bitsy little flaw in your plan depicting Mangy as the World dominant Brown rebuilder.

Still not getting it. Nobody said he's the World dominant Brown rebuilder. The opposite actually.

They are saying that he's the world Dominant Brown unbuilder. or tearer-downer. whatever you want to call it.

Mangini didn't build shit. but he did tear some stuff down. And, once again, Heckert now has a clean slate to work with as a result of that.

SoulDawg74 wrote:Oh Eyesore deary , if you could please remove Mangy's throbbing member from your cavernous and over eager lips and throat , I'd like to point out the teensy insy bitsy little flaw in your plan depicting Mangy as the World dominant Brown rebuilder.

Still not getting it. Nobody said he's the World dominant Brown rebuilder. The opposite actually.

They are saying that he's the world Dominant Brown unbuilder. or tearer-downer. whatever you want to call it.

Mangini didn't build shit. but he did tear some stuff down. And, once again, Heckert now has a clean slate to work with as a result of that.

SD:

We will never know what Mangy would ave done in year two , after Heckert took over admist the madness.

One can surmise , the contracts he dumped would have been replaced with even more expensive free agent aquisitions , if you follow his pattern of aquisition , it followed the george Allen model of bringing in vets instead of rebuilding with youth .

Also the purge is a myth , as Mistero's data shows we were the third oldest team , conversely those veteran deals cost more money and as such even though we dumped the younger players the Browns remained at or near the top of the league in contract expenditures.

With his failure to draft properly its easy to extrapolate mangy would have sought out relief with high priced free agents of his won choosing to shore up the defense and any savings would be imagined .

Further the team would still be on path of getting older.

In effect Heckert purged the roster of dept this year after inheriting an aging debt sheet from Mangy last year .

Thats the facts , not the convoluted reinvention of history you and eyesore are fooling yourself over.

"Also the purge is a myth , as Mistero's data shows we were the third oldest team , conversely those veteran deals cost more money and as such even though we dumped the younger players the Browns remained at or near the top of the league in contract expenditures."

Is a complete lie. While you are looking up how many players Heckert had to cut please go and look up our cap situation when Heckert took over.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

"Also the purge is a myth , as Mistero's data shows we were the third oldest team , conversely those veteran deals cost more money and as such even though we dumped the younger players the Browns remained at or near the top of the league in contract expenditures."

Is a complete lie. While you are looking up how many players Heckert had to cut please go and look up our cap situation when Heckert took over.

SD:

I ain't your servant , go look up the data yourself .

and no I'm not disputing mangy was Gozer the destroyer of Worlds , just telling your dumb ass to look what he was doing with the other hand .

We were at or near the cap when Heckert took over , and aproximately $20 million under end of last year when he executed fiscal responsibility in an uncapped year , dumping Rodgers and some more of the Mangy jets brought it to 36 million before additions and new signings now leave us between 25 - 30 million .

Also Heckert unlike Mangy has demonstarted some ability to draft , so unlike Mangy he'll be able to rebuild what he tore down.

So we are back to "I'm not looking up the numbers I am wrong about" and returning to:

"HE COULDN'T DRAFT" being why he didn't set up the roster to be in the clean position it is in.

How does it feel to be a joke? Do you enjoy constantly demonstrating your inability to do anything but pick any two points and repeat them in every post? Thus far your key arguments are "HE DIDN'T DRAFT WELL!!!!" and "HE RUINED TWO QBS!!!!!!" both of those points have nothing to do w/ anything anyone is argued and no matter how many times people tell you that you return to them.

Dithering old fucking coot you are. Drugs, they aren't just for kids!@!!!