nmemkha:While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

Totally agree with this, but don't go putting the fault there. The fault lies with the animals who react this way over a movie, not the movie maker himself. It's the rapist, not the low cut dress that commits the bad act.

Protesters angry over an obscure film critical of Islam's Prophet Muhammad stormed the U.S. Embassy in Sanaa, Yemen, on Thursday, as unrest that led to the deaths of a U.S. ambassador and three other Americans in Libya spread to other countries in the region.

Bullshiat. Bullshiat. Bullshiat.

The producer of this film turns out to not exist. The screening that so upset the Muslim world never happened. News organizations have yet to find any Muslim on the street who has seen it, most of those interviewed hadn't even heard of it.

Joe Six-Keg:duckfarkit: Sweet baby Jesus. The reverb from the Arab Spring. I so want Obama to handle this well; otherwise this is ammo for the rtards & a recipe for disaster

Problem is, no matter how the President handles it, it's ammo for the Tea Party/Republicans/Neocons. Pathetic that such things are politicized so freaking badly, and that there are some people who are cheering for the deaths of Americans just to make "the other side" look bad.

"I'm sad to report that our embassy in Yemen has been attacked in yet another vile example of mob violence. The United States will not tolerate attacks on its Sovereign territory and injury or death upon its citizens. We have no wish for violence and only want to peacefully co-exist with every other culture that is upon this planet. We as a nation have a deep respect for ALL religions, including Islam, and expect the same level of respect and treatment from all nations. But....be warned. Our tolerance for loss of American lives only goes so far, and we WILL defend ourselves, These senseless attacks upon our citizens must cease, or the circle of violence will only escalate to a level where it would be very hard to stop it from cascading to a full military action. Please use common sense and stand down, we have no wish to hurt anyone, but we will not stand by while our people and property are destroyed. God bless you, and God bless America.

This has nothing to do with the stupid film. Most if not all of the morans attacking the embassy haven't even heard of it, let alone seen it. And even if they had, how is it America's fault? Or the people inside the embassy? The American government didn't hire them to make it, they don't approve of it, but somehow they seem to be using this as an excuse for killing people. So i guess to a radical Islamic, burning people alive and shooting them is much less horrid than a stupid short about Mohammad. I just don't understand the logic.

While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

randomjsa:You expected something else when you portray nothing but weakness?

Thanks Obama.

That groveling apology is looking increasingly foolish.

You mean the apology where he said we were going to track the people who did this down and make them pay, which is actually credible given his penchant for whacking terrorists with Hellfires even in countries where they were completely safe under GW? That apology?

THE PEOPLE WITHIN THE UNITED STATES EMBASSY THAT WERE ABOUT TO BE MURDERED ISSUED PRESS RELEASES THAT SAID PLEASE CALM DOWN AND DON'T MURDER US! WE'RE INNOCENT AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT STUPID MOVIE.

Romney lied. Obama did not apologize. He did not make that statement nor did anyone in his cabinet.

Good lord people....what the fark? I see post after post blaming the film maker for this, and wanting to throw him to the angry crowd and such..........WTF? So we're groveling at the feet of Islam now, and telling them that freedom of speech means nothing to us? Fark them, and fark you "apologists" too. Yes, the guy who made the video is an idiot. Being an idiot is not illegal, storming a foreign embassy is illegal. Insinuating that the film maker is somehow responsible for people rioting and killing people is pretty hilariously close to blaming a rape victim for wearing a revealing dress. Yes, the video was provocative. That is not illegal, killing people is illegal, even over there. There is only one group at fault here, and that is the rioters. If you can't deal with a random Youtube video without rioting, then you are a farking bunch of idiots deserving of zero respect. Pick literally anything on the planet and you can probably find a youtube video ridiculing it. If you find something that hasn't been ridiculed yet, let me know, and I'll make one myself. Islam shouldn't be the only thing on the planet you're not allowed to ridicule. Fark them.

As someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in the Middle East I would like to say the following: if you think to yourself that it might be a good idea to intentionally incite people to volence against Americans please at least have the balls to go over there and do it to their faces. I got shot at a lot because of people like you and I do not appreciate it. Your God should protect you because yours is right and theirs is wrong, right?

The producer of this film turns out to not exist. The screening that so upset the Muslim world never happened. News organizations have yet to find any Muslim on the street who has seen it, most of those interviewed hadn't even heard of it.

This stinks to high heaven.

We are being used, yet again.

A "Gulf of Tonkin" is being engineered by those who want us to get mired in yet another war over there. Anywhere. Because war means money for some people. And they're not waiting for a change of administration, especially since this administration is probably going to be re-elected. And if Obama doesn't get re-elected, they can blame him for starting the war.

Obama's apologist stance of America has allowed another tragedy of this nature to occur. I say we take a 2 step approach here, 1. Never apologize for being free and 2.Elect real leadership to the White House. Muhammed was a liar and a fraud. Thank you

nmemkha:While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

But what is the cause of the muslim outrage if not the underlying current of Islamic supremacy that is a major part of the current radical theology? They think this world is theirs, and everyone, everywhere must be subject to a global Caliphate- One World Under Islam. Even if this particular movie wasn't made, that supremacy doctrine would still be there. Perhaps it might be good to expose it now for what it is.

What they are mad about, is that this film is being made here, and the USA isn't doing anything about it. We don't, because those basic freedoms are how our culture works, which isn't the same way as their culture works. And since, in their minds, everyone must be subject to and bow down to their religious sensibilities, national/cultural boundaries be damned, that's justification for them to go crazy even though the offense is happening on the other side of ("their") world.

Their perceived superiority and ownership over us isn't going to go away even if we "make nice" with them for now. In fact, they see our apologies and refusal to stand up for Western values of freedom- even freedom to do offensive and blasphemous things- as weakness, and an admission of the righteousness of their point of view. Like the WTC attack, this is an attack on Western civilization itself, not just simple outrage over a bad movie.

The Commander in Chief is taking care of the diplomacy thing very nicely. This should calm things down.

[media.tumblr.com image 500x400]

We are so F*CKED.

So what exactly should we do again?

Since the GOP seems so damn sure to know the answer to every geopolitical conflict in the world. Let's hear it!

Well, whatever we do, I'm pretty sure it's not this either One Big Ass Mistake America

Gateway pundit huh?

Sounds legit.

Not really an answer though. How should the US have handled the "Arab Spring"?

You didn't even read it did you? What an asshat. Let me sum it up for you. Obama is shiatting on our allies and extending an open bar to the folks behind all this shiat. It's not an opinion, it's pure simple facts. Opening dialog with duly elected democracies is a good thing, but you don't do it while crapping on your friends.

Invasion of US Embassies? How's about defending US citizens and soil? You know, like shooting at people climbing the walls? Sounds radical I know.

The CONSULATE in Benghazi where the killing happened was NOT AN EMBASSY. It had minimal security in the first place. Many nations have consulates that are extension offices of their embassies. Embassies go in capitals, and might have big walls and Marines. Consulates are in office buildings.

Also, foreigners shooting crowds can make things worse when (if at an embassy) you have hardened safe rooms and local national troops can shoot the crowd for you (as in Yemen).

As an atheist, one thing that fascinates me about threads like this is the fact that only a few hardcore will come to the defense of "right wing religous nuts" or "backwards-ass bible thumpers"But shift the spotlight to Muslim extremists and suddenly open mindedness and tolerance pours forth.

CygnusDarius:Joe Blowme: CygnusDarius: Sgt Stubby: Hmmm... looks like somebody on YouTube pulled the old switcherooski on me. The Tom Holland documentary (Islam: The Untold Story) has been replaced with something else called 'islam the untold story', though the replacement is an adoring pro-islam fluff piece .

The REAL, banned documentary has been removed and scrubbed from the Internet... so as not to incite muslim violence.

swahnhennessy:dittybopper: Free speech is wrong? Then I don't want to be right.

You suck donkey dick.

Was that right? Sure, I can say it, but should I? What does it accomplish? Pissing you off? I mean, it's not even a witty insult.

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula shouldn't be arrested for being a troll, no. But he needs to be called out for being a bigot and an idiot who made an incredibly stupid video.

Meh. The antidote to speech you find abhorrent is more speech, not less. Does not Islam have a saying similar to "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"? That's a lesson we ingrain in our children from an early age. My 8 year old seems to have a better grasp on free speech than those in Benghazi, Cairo, and Yemen.

More importantly, just because something pisses you off doesn't give you the right of veto. If I say something offensive, so what? But if you start killing innocent people because of something I said, you have committed a far, far greater sin against Allah than mere blasphemy.

Baryogenesis:HotIgneous Intruder: Father_Jack: Just to entertain the "how would I defend an embassy" scenario for a moment...kinda overkill. why not just a browning 50cal?

Two Marines with rifles would solve that climbing-the-fence problem.

HotIgneous Intruder: There is that aspect, since we're being nuanced and sophisticated here.

Yup. A lot of nuance there.

I have no doubt your idea would solve that particular fence climbing problem. Did it occur to you that shooting rioters might be a tad overzealous? Did you happen to think through the ramifications of US Marines shooting a bunch of unarmed rioters?

Did you happen to consider the ramifications of doing nothing at all? Of course not. More and more will be emboldened and this will spread. It started in Cairo, Obama apologized, and people died in Libya and Obama has done nothing, and now Yemen, and Obama has done nothing. Maths are hard but it's not that hard to connect the dots with your crayon, is it?

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

But see that's just not true.

2,000 dead on 9/11 and americans are justifiably furious and want blood, anyone's blood. We must have veng- err justice!100,000+ innocent Iraqi dead by our hand1 US soldier, who volunteered for his job and is equipped with the best gear and support network the world has ever seen, is killed in a foreign country. OMG TRAGEDY10 Iraqis living in the village they've lived for generations, with no training, no armor, no HUMVs to evacuate them to Germany or insurance policies for their spouses get blown up in their own beds... *shrug*.

Americans as a people DON'T care. And to us collectively, the lives are NOT worth the same. Not even close.

Its really amazing to me how much we as a people don't get bothered by how much innocent blood is spilled in our name.

Waxing_Chewbacca:jakomo002: Waxing_Chewbacca: Boots on the ground would have been Presidents Bush 2"s position. Which is and was insane. This seems to make more sense. Or you would allow these terrorist who are using yeman as a base to live in peace and kill at will? Smart foreign policy you got there. If the peaceful people of Yeman want peace they can always decide not to tolerate the cold blooded killers who live amongst them. You have no ideas. You have coca-cola "I'd like to teach the world to sing" foreign policy.

HAHA! Yeah, if the Yemenis don't want the heavily armed militants to stay, they should just stroll over and ask them to please leave. Haha.

A lot of this is people's reactions to drone strikes and military intervention, so your suggestion is to use drones and military intervention to stop it.

That is rich, buddy. Not very well thought-out, but rich.

My suggestion is to be less paranoid and less cowardly. Yemen is hardly a threat to the USA, and the only Americans they'll kill are there in Yemen. So get them out and leave the country alone.

Your "nation-building" skills are atrocious.

Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

1. End all military aid to Yemen and her neighbors.2. Issue an advisory against traveling to or doing business in Yemen. Make it clear to American owned companies that they will receive no support, no protection, no intervention if doing business in Yemen becomes problematic.3. Issue same advisory to NGOs.4. Maintain or increase humanitarian aid to Yemen as conditions indicate.5. Invest heavily in wind and solar energy. Invest in hybrid and electric cars. Increase efficiency standards. Invest in mass transit. Seek ways to move our nation from dependency on the one thing that most motivates us to entangle ourselves in the affairs of nations like Yemen.

I know it could be more detailed, but no one wants to be bored to tears by my garrulous ideas on Fark.

Derrrrrr. Obama would have done what he did here, the ships and drones are on the way as we speak. Unlike Bush, Obama will make sure that we have correctly identified the perps, then kill them dead. Bush just invaded a random unrelated country months later and let the perp go free.

These threads are great for identifying the mouth breathers. Foreign policy is more nuanced and complicated than shoot first ask questions later and Muslim=bad.

"By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community."-Oscar Wilde

truer now than when he said it.

Fark.com: Giving mouthbreathers a stage and smart people the chance to monitor them since 2001.

Isn't it sorta a dangerous and slippery-slope thought to think that you need to "monitor" people you disagree with?

No, not at all.

I think its important to understand what people I don't agree with are thinking and why, it helps explain what is to me at times completely illogical.

Every now and again amongst all the angry chickenhawks and badly informed redstaters, there'll be one who will really try to lay it out and explain why he or she thinks x or y, and that stuff is really good to know. It helps keep a human face on stupid, remind me that we all basically want the same things and that Americans fundamentally disagree because of the quality of information we base decisions on.

Some people choose to put decent information into their heads, and can reason accordingly and make good decisions. Others willfully put bad information into their heads and make logical conclusions from that bad information. And then the final, smallest and most unreachable set are both stupid AND put bad information into their heads, and aren't able to make anything BUT bad decisions. These are the people like Thunderpipes and Bevets. People from the other groups are worth listening to.

BgJonson79:So we shouldn't correct our mistake? Also, it seems, they just end up replacing one dictator with another, so not sure what the net gain is there. (In fairness, at least they got to choose!)

No, no you absolutely SHOULD support the removal of the dictators. What I'm saying is that since the US supported those same dictators for decades, the people who suffered under that rule aren't automatically going to be pro-U.S. They're apt to be a little, um, butthurt over the whole thing. They'll need time.

From now on, all stories related to this alleged film should use the Irony tag.

Irony because this whole thing arises from AN UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOUR. We don't know if the film even exists at all. Yet all this anger and violence abounds due to RUMOURS SPREAD BY THE INTERNET. Sound at all familiar to anyone?

Anyone know any Americans like that? Americans who accept as fact, or at least plausibly likely, various rumours they hear online about various things or people they're predisposed to believe such things about -- to want to believe such things about, facts and verification be damned? And then act on those beliefs in their daily lives and politics?

This goes beyond the 'chickens come home to roost' argument (which is still valid for other reasons here); this bespeaks an entire species of knee-jerking morans who probably are not collectively prepared to meet the real future challenges of this world, who can't face the hard and unpleasant truths about themselves -- and thus fulfil the vital first step of real personal change and betterment, and who simply refuse to even contemplate the ego-busting possibility of being wrong about anything.

Think about this. This ENTIRE thing is built on a mountainous landfill of practically nothing, and reacting like tiny screaming babies to that practically nothing. Not just them -- us, too: a huge amount of the anti-Muslim fever in this country is also based on prejudice, rumour, and outright lies. Not every last shred, of course, but mostly. And the fact that so many Americans take their received wisdom about all this from doubtful sources -- and then actually make important decisions based on that -- is no better than what's happening over there.

So don't y'all get too smug or judgemental. We haven't stormed any embassies lately, that's true. But when it comes to evaluating facts and deciding how to respond based on what we 'know,' we're not batting much better than anyone else.

Joe Blowme: Lesser of 2 evils, strongman of islamic pshychos... i have to go with the strongman who will keep savages in check. Besides, they drew first blood in 1790's, Barbary Pirates and all that so can we just point to that as justification to kill them? Or can we go back further and blame the taking of Vienna? Or Spain? Ect...,

Dude, I'm sorry. I didn't even realize I was arguing with crazy person. Sorry, and seek help for your obvious mental illness.

Waxing_Chewbacca: I understand and agree. But those who turn to terrorism must blown off the face off the planet. Drones are a surgical method of doing what must be done. So grow the fark and understand there are no absolutes in foreign policy. I'm also done with you until you can post my entire statement and not cut only what you wish to use to make your point. Oh... And this... The far-right AND the far-left have one important thing in common. An inability to understand that dogmatic adherence to ideology will very likely get us all killed.

It's very very well -documented that when you go hogwild with drones, massacring innocents accidentally to get to your "primary suspect", the survivors HATE you and will try to enact revenge. Or their neighbours will. Or their family. Or their in-laws.

Drones might kill a few "suspected militants", but they create far more "terrorists". Put yourself in their shoes.

"well, it looks like a US drone hit the wedding party, killed the guy they were looking for and also accidentally bruned my 4 children to death. Let's get to work on making some new kids, wifey."

No, they arm and find ways to enact revenge, which is VERY big in those areas.

Lunaville:somedude210: poe_zlaw: I wonder how many low-budget lame ass movies of been made about America and Christianity in the middle east How many embassies got stormed by peaceloving Americans in the United States?

I'm gonna assume none, since, you know, there's no proof that they exist.

This, however, was a deliberate attempt to show it to the Muslim world in order to piss them right the fark off.

/wouldn't at all be surprised if this traced back to Team Romney

Or the Koch brothers. They certainly have the funds to buy themselves a few soldiers of fortune.

On Sunday, at least 10 civilians were not so fortunate. They were killed in a strike gone awry near the town of Rada'a in al-Baitha province. An aircraft - believed to be an American drone - fired a pair of missiles at a vehicle supposedly carrying a local AQAP leader. One of the missiles instead hit a nearby minibus. A 10-year-old girl and her mother were among the dead. "Families attempted to carry the victims' corpses to the capital, Sana'a, to lay them in front of the residence of newly elected President Abdurabu Hadi, but were sent back by local security forces," according to CNN.

nmemkha:While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

People who think like this are cowards who want to give away their rights, and everyone else's rights, to placate crazy people in a misguided attempt to feel a little safer. Please keep these kinds of cheap and cowardly opinions to yourself. You make the rest of us look weak.

The people who are responsible for these kinds of attacks don't value anyone's rights or beliefs but their own and want to kill anyone who disagrees with them. It's my right, as a human being, to believe, say, and mock whatever I want. When you say "This is so-and-so's fault for not being too scared to voice their opinion" then you're trying to take away the rights of that person to express themselves. This is not the film makers fault, the only fault lies with the people who are so bigoted and filled with hate that they try to kill anyone who disagrees with them or upsets them.

Stop trying to belittle my rights as a human being with your cowardly fear inspired thoughts. I bet the people responsible for the attacks want everyone in the world to think like you, to be too scared to speak out or stand up for yourself.

Of course, none of this Yemeni anger has anything to do with the fact that the U.S. has been involved in a low-level war there for years.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/yemen-drone-war/

29 Dead in 8 Days as U.S. Puts Yemen Drone War in Overdrive

29 dead in a little over a week. Nearly 200 gone this year. The White House is stepping up its campaign of drone attacks in Yemen, with four strikes in eight days. And not even the slaying of 10 civilians over the weekend seems to have slowed the pace in the United States' secretive, undeclared war.

TOTALLY unrelated, amirite? I'm sure Yemenis celebrate when they see a foreign government's attack drones in their skies, and they're probably unaffected when those drones bomb the shiat out of their neighbours.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06/yemen-war/all/

After years of sending drones and commandos into Pakistan, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta last week finally admitted the obvious: The US is "fighting a war" there. But American robots and special forces aren't just targeting militants in Pakistan. They're doing the same - with increasing frequency and increasing lethality - in Yemen. The latest drone attack happened early Wednesday in the Yemeni town of Azzan, killing nine people. It's the 23rd strike in Yemen so far this year, according to the Long War Journal. In Pakistan, there have been only 22.

They can't actually defend themsleves against drone attacks, so this is probably the only way they can voice displeasure, by trashing the embassy. Because actions have consequences.

Father_Jack:We don't know what is going on there, and the marines guarding the gates do. If they think they'll need to kill people to protect themselves, im sure they will. Historically speaking, using deadly force against protestors, even unruly rioting ones, has often resulted in things escalating and getting much worse than if the riot had just occurred and blown itself out. As such its employed as a very last resort. Neither you nor I can evaluate whats going on from our comfy computers on different continents. But since we've not heard that deadly force has been used, I suppose we can assume it hasn't been because it doesn't need to be. Im sure the marines know what theyre doing, don't you? Or are you calling our marines cowards?

Those Marines have orders. They have very specific circumstances under which they may use deadly force. Without adequate warning and a relaxation of the rules of engagement, it is very possible that they might not be able to effectively defend an embassy because by they time they realize what is going on, they've been overwhelmed already. That's how the Iranian hostage crisis unfolded.

Sgt Stubby:An armed response to intruders, be it at your business, home, embassy (or even country) is something that liberals do NOT tolerate. You must call the police and hope that they arrive in time.

2006Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy is foiled.

2007Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy is fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries.

2008Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.

TV's Vinnie:You know what? F*CK IT! I'm not going to get worked up about a bunch of butthurt donkey-molesters in some craphole Islamist country anymore. Haters gonna hate. Period. Nothing we do short of blowing them up will effect them.

Just

blow

them

up!

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. If we want the moral high ground, we must act like it.

Ah Yemen, desperately poor, staggering unemployment, little in the way of anything to build upon, an old tribal system that makes a mess of some things, Saudi Arabia next door doing not much to help. That something is happening in Yemen is not a surprise, the surprise is that something doesn't happen more often.

Bit'O'Gristle:The President needs to release a statement such as this,

"I'm sad to report that our embassy in Yemen has been attacked in yet another vile example of mob violence. The United States will not tolerate attacks on its Sovereign territory and injury or death upon its citizens. We have no wish for violence and only want to peacefully co-exist with every other culture that is upon this planet. We as a nation have a deep respect for ALL religions, including Islam, and expect the same level of respect and treatment from all nations. But....be warned. Our tolerance for loss of American lives only goes so far, and we WILL defend ourselves, These senseless attacks upon our citizens must cease, or the circle of violence will only escalate to a level where it would be very hard to stop it from cascading to a full military action. Please use common sense and stand down, we have no wish to hurt anyone, but we will not stand by while our people and property are destroyed. God bless you, and God bless America.

nmemkha:While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

You are absolutely right. Catholics, Jews and Mormons should take notice and follow the Muslim play book to reduce perceived slights to their religion. If Mormons cut off a few heads, ran around in murderous mobs and destroyed property, The Book Of Mormon might not be on Broadway.

/You can't rely on the 1st amendment to protect your speech if you are going to mock the religion of people who act violently in reaction to it

Mr. Shabooboo:I'm so ticked off about the paper cut I got that I wanna storm the Canadian Embassy because the treethey made the paper from probably came from Canada.. (That was sarcasm people, I ♥ Canada)

Oh yeah?

I saw this controversial film that two idiots in the US made about Canada. That say it was aboot free speech, but I could see the hate in their depiction of flapping heads and crappy WW2-technology in their army. I'm getting ready right now to go storm the US embassy, eh? Fookin hosers!

BullBearMS:whenever the UN's food price index, which measures the monthly change in the price of a basket of food commodities, climbs above 210, the conditions ripen for social unrest around the world.

(Said the researchers behind the study) "on December 13, 2010, we submitted a government report analyzing the repercussions of the global financial crises, and directly identifying the risk of social unrest and political instability due to food prices." Four days later, Mohamed Bouazizi set himself on fire as an act of protest in Tunisia.

Today, the food price index is hovering around 213, where it has stayed for months-just beyond the tip of the identified threshold.

duckfarkit:Sweet baby Jesus. The reverb from the Arab Spring. I so want Obama to handle this well; otherwise this is ammo for the rtards & a recipe for disaster

Problem is, no matter how the President handles it, it's ammo for the Tea Party/Republicans/Neocons. Pathetic that such things are politicized so freaking badly, and that there are some people who are cheering for the deaths of Americans just to make "the other side" look bad.

doglover:Cpl.D: I thought they equipped all US embassies with that active denial system

You know what looks worse in the media than your embassy gettin' a little B&E? Unleashing automatic weapons on unarmed civilians. Hell, we're still learning about a handful of musket balls launched more than 200 years ago at a couple early Bostonians who you probably would have shot too.

As bad as riots get, active denial systems aren't for mere flag burning and trespass. That's why they keep the weapons in the secure areas, which weren't raided.

Um... the active denial system isn't a firearm. It's that satellite-dish directional-sound beam thing. You point it in a direction, turn it on, and anyone along the beam hears a loud assed noise. That's it. No bullets. No missiles. No flying corgis. I recall they'd said they were going to use these nonlethal devices in embassies. I guess they didn't get around to it.

Marine1:Blue_Blazer: Cuyose: Blue_Blazer: Cuyose: Blue_Blazer:Abortions cause people top bomb abortion clinics, so we should not do abortions. That is your thinking. That is the repercusion of performing abortions.

That is not my thinking.Are you a Republican? We have serious big issues going on and all you can think about is abortion. Are you thinking about rape too?

Just wanted to pipe in with this question:

How many Farkers would say this film was a bad idea if Muhammad were swapped with Jesus of Nazareth and knew that the world's Christians wouldn't be beating down embassy doors to kill people?

I know the offending element is different (it's not against Christian teachings to depict Jesus, as it is with Muhammad and Islam), but just make the film so that Jesus looks like a terrible influence. How many would be accusing this filmmaker of being a bad person?

Honest question.

I would, for one, but would only go for expressing my opinion, not actually going for murder. And then we have people like Breivik in Europe, and then there's the extreme right-wing in France that doesn't mess round. Then there's Fox News inciting violence, remember "Tiller, the Baby Killer" over and over again until someone actually killed a doctor, and several abortion clinics burned, and even going as much as people posting personal info of doctors that perform abortions?.

Blue_Blazer: I'm pretty sure what we're saying is that if you are gonna be a dick

does, 'openly and honestly discussing reality' qualify as "being a dick" because IDW is often guilty of this, and according to your criteria we ought to label him as a "dick"

any objections?

/anyone have a button to push that will terminate him??

Pretty sure that's my point, that ONLY A SMALL MINORITY OF MUSLIMS are reacting violently to this, and WE SHOULD NOT lump them all together. But good job.

If by "openly and honestly" you mean "making a bullshiat video that you had to lie to the cast to even make and tell a bunch of lies about the Prophet (who they have told you they believe should never be visualized) and calling accusing him of various crimes and transgressions of their faith" then yeah, this is video is a textbook example of speaking "openly and honestly"

1) Unless your response to an angry crowd is to immediately spray them with bullets, you're a liberal pussy

2) Unless your response to an attack on an American embassy is the immediate launch of a few dozen tomahawk missiles at the host country, you're a liberal pussy.

3) Diplomacy is for liberal pussies.

4) When you are attacked, anything other than an immediate, indiscriminate response with fatal violence is a groveling apology

5) There are a lot of angry, frustrated Right Wing Authoritarian Followers on Fark, and they all have the same sad ITG response. CRY MOAR TUFFGUYS - maybe if you stamp your feet harder, Obama will act like the ignorant, violent, xenophobic, reactionary, smallminded bullyboy that you would be if you were in charge.

the money is in the banana stand:rohar: the money is in the banana stand: rohar: the money is in the banana stand: dababler: common sense is an oxymoron: In other news, the maker of the film that started it all has gone into hiding, his spokesman was chosen because he leads anti-Islamic protests at mosques and schools, and the cast claims that much of the dialogue was dubbed in without their knowledge or consent.

Link

Also...

"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen"

farking asshole. This needs to be front page news on every goddamn paper and website.

That is the person you turn your hatred to? LOL. Wow. Words are just that, words. You shouldn't have to ever edit yourself because of someone might do as a result of your words. No matter how you look at it, the guilty party here are those that stormed the embassies and committed acts of violence. That's it. No other blame can be placed here.

While I generally agree, watching their friends and neighbors evaporate due to drone strikes might have had something to do with it.

Yes I am sure that is why they were burning cars and trying to steal computers and furniture conveniently on and right after 9/11 because they were so outraged by the film or the US drone strikes. No, this is just an angry mob of thugs and degenerates that jumped on the bandwagon of a coordinated attack plan.

Uh, there was no film in Yemen, they actually watched their neighbors get cut down by drone strikes. In HD real life. You're not keeping up are you?

And your reading comprehension is that of a kindergartener. This is a bunch of bullshiat, just excuses for angry barbarians to kill Americans.

the money is in the banana stand:rohar: the money is in the banana stand: dababler: common sense is an oxymoron: In other news, the maker of the film that started it all has gone into hiding, his spokesman was chosen because he leads anti-Islamic protests at mosques and schools, and the cast claims that much of the dialogue was dubbed in without their knowledge or consent.

Link

Also...

"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen"

farking asshole. This needs to be front page news on every goddamn paper and website.

That is the person you turn your hatred to? LOL. Wow. Words are just that, words. You shouldn't have to ever edit yourself because of someone might do as a result of your words. No matter how you look at it, the guilty party here are those that stormed the embassies and committed acts of violence. That's it. No other blame can be placed here.

While I generally agree, watching their friends and neighbors evaporate due to drone strikes might have had something to do with it.

Yes I am sure that is why they were burning cars and trying to steal computers and furniture conveniently on and right after 9/11 because they were so outraged by the film or the US drone strikes. No, this is just an angry mob of thugs and degenerates that jumped on the bandwagon of a coordinated attack plan.

Uh, there was no film in Yemen, they actually watched their neighbors get cut down by drone strikes. In HD real life. You're not keeping up are you?

Of course the fact that we've been conducting hunter-killer operations with drones all over Yemen for the last several years, picking and choosing allies in their low-grade civil war, has absolutely NO bearing on how they respond to an inflammatory issue. Just like the American Revolution was all about tea and the Falklands were all about penguins.

The film was purposely made to antagonize. Demonstrating how I raped your lover in front of you is bound to elicit a negative reaction right? Its not my fault you got angry and assaulted me, right?

This. That said, this isn't just the film--that's just the straw breaking the camel's back here. We've been sticking our dick in the ME and doing nothing good there.

Obviously, the protestors had every choice in what they did, but maybe it's time we STFU and GTFO.

Wow, I never thought you'd be an apologists for muderers.

And why stop at the ME? We have far more bases in Europe protecting them from the Soviet Union, than the ME.

Apologizing? The rioters should be in farking jail. But international policy is not black and white. We have caused hundreds of civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan alone, and that number is laughably low.

If you want to talk about adult matters, you need a basic education. And you need to remember that, outside of whatever video game you're playing, the Cold War is de facto over.

That gives us a lot to think about.[rt.com image 370x277][nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com image 620x344]

The actual "movie" is called "Innocence of Muslims" (link right there), and it's not a "trailer". It's 7 Youtube video segments of varying length, perhaps they were unaware you can post videos >10min now on YT. I assume that's "the whole thing".

It's of comically bad production values. A mix of primitive "sets" of modern trappings pretending to be "tents" and chroma-keying onto other scenes. Of course, with chroma-keying, you have to keep the camera on upper torso so the floor doesn't show, because it's hard to keep that perspective and scale consistent, right? Well, not these guys. Consequently, they just kinda "float" on the sand where they stand . The stage lighting on them is glaringly inconsistent with the exterior shot for their environment.

[gdb.rferl.org image 800x460]

Look at me, we're FLYING! IZZA MIRACLE!

Also hilarious, the audio is really bad, and they've got an indoor empty-room echo while in a tent- or outdoors. Often they switch to badly dubbed voices, which are only only SLIGHTLY better than the live audio.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 203x278]Then this gay pr0n actor Tim Dax shows up. Wearing very little. Apparently, this is how he actually looks, those are real tattoos. Odd choice for a character. Well, odd that a Coptic Christian sect would tap the gay pr0n industry for its talent to begin with.

I prefer the way Obama handles a war compared to the republican approach. Especially since Romney couldn't even feign greif for the dead Americans. If war is coming, then Obama is the guy I want in charge.

Who benefits from the downfall of the US government and the death of minorities?.

These guys:

[images.alternet.org image 512x341]

Coelacanth: Lunaville: That gives us a lot to think about.

We're all being played, ladies and gentlemen, liberals and conservatives, Christians, Jews, and Muslims!

i believe i already spotted the player, his handle is Coelacanth

[www.1888toys.com image 250x226]

kudos for your honesty

FYI, my account was created 2007-12-28 18:40:01, if that helps build your case

If there is any human who deserves the title scumbag, it is you. I'm trying to point out that there's a common enemy here and all you can do is feed your ego. Right now, if I was entitled to kill one person by the push of a button it would be you. But the best I can do is favorited! you and add to my ever-growing list of those who should be condemned to purgatory forever more.

nmemkha:While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

I agree. I suggest we also arrest the little Christian terrorist and charge him with treason. He intentionally put the lives of Americans at risk.

Mazzic518:People that warn about putting someone on ignore make me laugh..

Thanks for sharing. Really.

Joe Blowme:"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

The Egyptians are remembering the past. The past 40 years where the USA supported the brutal dictator Hosni Mubarak. Libyans are remembering the past 10 years when the USA and the UK supported Gaddhafi 100%.

Shirley Ujest:We should hand that film maker and Terry Jones over to some Muslim clerics.

Yes, because what they did is in no way protected by the 1st Amendment. People who share your line of thinking are part of the problem with this country...completely willing to violate the civil rights of your fellow citizens as long as it makes people in other countries feel good.

The U.S. needs to come to grips with the fact that, aside from Israel, there are no constitutional governments in the Middle East. Whoever is in power at any given time gets to write the laws, interpret the laws, enforce the laws, or ignore the laws as they see fit. Until countries in the Middle East can adopt western notions of the supremacy of the law and equality of all before the law; and until they can achieve some kind of economic security, there will be no peace; nor will there be any successful relations with them. Even the relationship with our "ally" Saudi Arabia is as tenuous as the heartbeat of the king.

When you couple that insecurity with unrelenting poverty and stir it all together with a fanatical religion that will use any excuse to kill whomever it deems an enemy, any kind of rational diplomatic relationship is an illusion. It's hard to negotiate with someone for whom death is a promotion. Unfortunately, the only thing the fanatics understand is force and, if you leave them alive no matter how severe the beating, they consider themselves to have won and they will come back at you as soon as they are able.

Given that, it's difficult to formulate what could be a successful policy. Total annihilation of the fanatics might go a long way toward solving the problem but I don't think anyone has the stomach for that, even if the capability existed. Every time we leave fanatics standing, however, the normal population will live in fear of punishment or reprisal from the fanatics and the country will disintegrate into anarchy or a new brand of totalitarian government.

What I find most disturbing about this administration's policy is the apparent lack of interest. SoS Clinton has been working very hard all over the globe, for which she deserves enormous credit even if one disagrees with her policies. But Obama seems to have lost interest in doing his job. When he attends less than half of the foreign intelligence briefings, when he flies off to fund-raiser after fund-raiser instead of at least appearing to concentrate on what is, at best, a powder keg; when he makes a brief statement and won't take questions; and when the focus of the press is on the timing of what Romney did; it seems that there is no coherent policy and that Obama is disinterested in formulating one. The current upheaval appears to be an annoyance that is getting in the way of his schedule.

the usa is bombing the piss out of their country with unmanned drones.we're also killing their leaders in the night with seal teams.these activities are coordinated at a high level through embassys.

it's not difficult to see why they would attach the embassy.

what is unique, is that these people will FIGHT.they'll fight against the tanks, helocoptors, drones, laser bombs, F-16s, seal teams... whatever!they'll fight all of these forces with rocks while wearing sandals, to the death.

i find that to be very interesting.the only reasonable explanation for their behavior, is they do not have any other choice.it's the only explanation to attack a tank with a rock in sandals.

On top of it all, the guy(s) who made the film that started all this seem to be abject cowards:

The maker of the film, Innocence of Muslims, which crudely denigrates the prophet Muhammad, called himself Sam Bacile and claimed to be Israeli American, but that appears to be an alias.A Coptic Christian living on the outskirts of Los Angeles, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, later admitted to the Associated Press that he had managed and provided logistics for the film. Nakoula, who pleaded no contest to bank fraud charges in 2010, denied being Sam Bacile, but a mobile phone used by the elusive director in earlier interviews was registered under Nakoula's address, and he had previously used similar aliases.

Must be nice to live in a "free" country where you can stir up anything you like, then have others put out the fires for you.

AndreMA:fluffy2097: Nothing makes a man reconsider his life choices like 30mm explosive shells being delivered at 4200 rounds a minute.

A 50 cal just sounds like a gun. These people are used to gunfire. Time to bring something to the table that will literally vaporize people trying to climb the walls of an embassy to kill innocent civilians.

It seems likely that such a weapon would also kill a lot of uninvolved passers-by at a distance and do a lot of property damage to the surrounding buildings. Sounds like a recipe for making matters worse.

doubled99:As an atheist, one thing that fascinates me about threads like this is the fact that only a few hardcore will come to the defense of "right wing religous nuts" or "backwards-ass bible thumpers"But shift the spotlight to Muslim extremists and suddenly open mindedness and tolerance pours forth.

It's what Bush called, "the soft bigotry of low expectations." A lot of liberals don't have the self-awareness to realize that they are basically saying that brown people are too stupid and their culture too backwards to understand that being a religious nut is wrong.

I don't want this fundamentalism crap. Christians, Muslims, whatever. It seems like the fundies of the world are itching for a holy war ALL SIDES INCLUDED.This isn't Egypt or Libya or Yemen alone. This is 'our religion is supreme'!

Not national boundaries, rational boundaries.

You're right, Christians are constantly blowing shiat up in the name of Christ. I for one won't stand for it any lon-wait a minute...that's not true at all...you almost had me though.

Latinwolf:LL316: nmemkha: While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

Totally agree with this, but don't go putting the fault there. The fault lies with the animals who react this way over a movie, not the movie maker himself. It's the rapist, not the low cut dress that commits the bad act.

If the producer made this film hoping for this kind of response then he does share some blame.

No, they do not. You cannot excuse violence for any reason. If that were the case, liberals and conservatives in this country would have long ago went to war (conservatives winning of course, we know how to shoot and we own guns). Sound like an apologist. Or should we attack people that simply badmouth us?

lunchinlewis:Thunderpipes: Obama is a peace guy. Why are they still mad? He is on their side.

Why aren't there heavily armed marines stationed at our embassies? Anyone gets on the gates like that, you shoot them. Have air support standing by in case you need heavy fire support. Problem solved.

Need to take the kid gloves off and leave them off. Pussy McHopeChange is just like Carter.

Yeah, I think the State Department has some answering to do. What exactly is our security footing at these embassies. You know, we don't have a spotless history with those things over there.

The Libyan thing is kind of baffling. Apparently there have been other recent attacks on that consulate and those of other nations in that area. We've had drones checking out terror cell areas around there since mid-summer. The diplomat that got killed even raised the terrorist issue with Washington.

This sucks. We look completely unprepared.

Only security there was 4 Libyan guards. What the hell? That is downright incompetent.

CygnusDarius:Ricardo Klement: doubled99: Muslims are no different than any other religion.No, really.

They just haven't had an Enlightenment or Reformation.

No, really.

They played an important part in ours, and they did have their Enlightenment, but it was cut short because of the invasion of the Mongols, and the spread of the Black Plague (that came along with the mongols).

That's true, but they backed off their own enlightenment when the first siege of Vienna failed and they doubled-down on the derp after the second proved they weren't the invincible hand of God.

m2313:BullBearMS: whenever the UN's food price index, which measures the monthly change in the price of a basket of food commodities, climbs above 210, the conditions ripen for social unrest around the world.

(Said the researchers behind the study) "on December 13, 2010, we submitted a government report analyzing the repercussions of the global financial crises, and directly identifying the risk of social unrest and political instability due to food prices." Four days later, Mohamed Bouazizi set himself on fire as an act of protest in Tunisia.

Today, the food price index is hovering around 213, where it has stayed for months-just beyond the tip of the identified threshold.

Take a look at this as well.

Their predictions are a little off. From your link: "the average price of staple foods such as maize could more than double in the next 20 years compared with 2010 trend prices,"

WhyteRaven74:Wodan11: We should pull out all embassies in these nations, cut off all aid, cease all charity organizations erfforts' there.

Great idea let's just make innocent people suffer, that couldn't possibly come back to kick us in the ass.

These people not only take the US for granted, they resent simply being there in their country. You're basically taking a policy of bribery and turning it around, saying if the bribe is removed it will hurt the briber. That's the exact opposite of the rationale that convinces you to try and bribe someone in the first place: give them something to do what you want. You're saying that you have to keep giving them something or they won't do what you want. You're blackmailing yourself, which frankly is idiotic.

Let me point out that they aren't doing what you want anyway.

The recourse of authoritarian societies (which is what these are... the theocracy is driving these actionsi) is for the people to rebel. These "innocents" have the full power and capacity to enact change. Why should they rock the boat? Answer: they won't, as long as they're getting aid. But if the theocracy costs them their free food and medical aid, they'll blame the theocracy.

Now is the time to pull out, when there is a clear source of blame. You can't do it when there isn't a significant causal factor, or they blame you.

Baryogenesis:HotIgneous Intruder: Father_Jack: Just to entertain the "how would I defend an embassy" scenario for a moment...kinda overkill. why not just a browning 50cal?

Two Marines with rifles would solve that climbing-the-fence problem.

HotIgneous Intruder: There is that aspect, since we're being nuanced and sophisticated here.

Yup. A lot of nuance there.

I have no doubt your idea would solve that particular fence climbing problem. Did it occur to you that shooting rioters might be a tad overzealous? Did you happen to think through the ramifications of US Marines shooting a bunch of unarmed rioters?

Tamater:Romney's statement condemning Obama's response to this attack due any minute now.

Perhaps the only good aspect of this is that it highlights that the Republicans have once again nominated the wrong guy. Romney's political instincts are terrible. A more cunning and astute politician would have said "in our country's time of loss and grief to put aside partisanship and to back the Commander-in-Chief in making some hard decisions". Then he could look statesmanlike while authorizing another tranche of attack ads.

He could also suggest that all right-thinking Republicans attend Pastor Jones's church this Sunday. You know, just attend.

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

Get a table, a few chairs, and invite them to the table to talk. Ask them what their problem is. What are they fighting for? I mean, what are they hoping to accomplish? Their demands.

And then negotiate a fair and equitable COMPROMISE where everyone gets almost everything they want,. but with some serious and lasting concessions on each side, with clear and serious consequences if either side farks around.

Then try it out and see how it goes for the first 6 months and then go back to that same table and discuss what you can improve.

It's not rocket science. Ask the IRA.

/plus it's cheap. No trillion dollar military expenditures, just some office supplies/.

You are way out there in the blue man. The people who you wish to compromise do NOT compromise. Wow. Teach the world to sing...

Off to work. I enjoyed the sparring. I imagine there are many things we can agree on. Just not this aspect of foreign policy. Have a good day.

Waxing_Chewbacca:Answer the question. What would be your policy... Buddy. Yeman is not a threat. Correct. The terrorist there-in are. What would you do?

Get a table, a few chairs, and invite them to the table to talk. Ask them what their problem is. What are they fighting for? I mean, what are they hoping to accomplish? Their demands.

And then negotiate a fair and equitable COMPROMISE where everyone gets almost everything they want,. but with some serious and lasting concessions on each side, with clear and serious consequences if either side farks around.

Then try it out and see how it goes for the first 6 months and then go back to that same table and discuss what you can improve.

It's not rocket science. Ask the IRA.

/plus it's cheap. No trillion dollar military expenditures, just some office supplies/.

Waxing_Chewbacca:I just get tired of the black or white foreign policy of the far right and left. Presidents like Clinton, Obama and, yes, Bush 1 are far preferable in that they had degrees of nuance and reacted to each situation not through a faithfulness to ideaology but to pragmatism.

How do you nuance a situation where there is a knife coming at your neck if you don't leave?

Waxing_Chewbacca:Seals are not always possible. You do not Put American lives at risk to ensure the lives of an equal number of innocents. Harsh but this is the real world.

And that is why you will never win the "War On Terror". You are fighting people who are willing to sacrifice everything they have to beat you, and you don't have the stomach to be on the other end of a bloody massacre.

"20 children killed in a drone strike in Yemen? Well shiat, son, them's the costs of war. Collateral damage as they say."

"4 Americans killed in Libya? OMIGOD WAAAAH! What are we going to do omigod those poor peoiple."

Sickening, really. Grow a pair of testicles and also realize that American lives are as important or unimportant as those you yourselves erase.

Then you'd be wrong.It's nothing knowing the theory of how a nuclear bomb works.A school kid can learn that.It's everything knowing exactly how to build a nuclear bomb and what materials to use and how to produce those materials to the proper tolerances.Read up on the Manhattan Project sometime.

I thought you only needed a city with access to uranium. Although, the downside is that nuclear weapons are then unlocked for all civilizations.

Waxing_Chewbacca:Boots on the ground would have been Presidents Bush 2"s position. Which is and was insane. This seems to make more sense. Or you would allow these terrorist who are using yeman as a base to live in peace and kill at will? Smart foreign policy you got there. If the peaceful people of Yeman want peace they can always decide not to tolerate the cold blooded killers who live amongst them. You have no ideas. You have coca-cola "I'd like to teach the world to sing" foreign policy.

HAHA! Yeah, if the Yemenis don't want the heavily armed militants to stay, they should just stroll over and ask them to please leave. Haha.

A lot of this is people's reactions to drone strikes and military intervention, so your suggestion is to use drones and military intervention to stop it.

That is rich, buddy. Not very well thought-out, but rich.

My suggestion is to be less paranoid and less cowardly. Yemen is hardly a threat to the USA, and the only Americans they'll kill are there in Yemen. So get them out and leave the country alone.

In all seriousness, that is the question. Just like dealing with the modern GOP, NIMBY environmentalists, Occupiers, etc... how does one deal with the recalcitrant obstructionist who wants no compromise, no solutions, etc? Strongly worded letters do nothing, drones do take out bad guys (but at a cost both financially and in the eyes of the innocent who are affected). Glass parking lot isn't a practical solution. Pulling out completely (foreign aid, diplomats, military) simply will create a vacuum for bad people with guns who aren't afraid to use them to take over. I'm just farking sick of religious and political zealots on both sides constantly being butthurt and offering no solutions or compromise.

Personally, I'm all for getting off of middle eastern oil then telling them to go fark themselves. I realize this is not a practical solution in the real world, however.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch:From now on, all stories related to this alleged film should use the Irony tag.

Irony because this whole thing arises from AN UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOUR. We don't know if the film even exists at all. Yet all this anger and violence abounds due to RUMOURS SPREAD BY THE INTERNET. Sound at all familiar to anyone?

Anyone know any Americans like that? Americans who accept as fact, or at least plausibly likely, various rumours they hear online about various things or people they're predisposed to believe such things about -- to want to believe such things about, facts and verification be damned? And then act on those beliefs in their daily lives and politics?

This goes beyond the 'chickens come home to roost' argument (which is still valid for other reasons here); this bespeaks an entire species of knee-jerking morans who probably are not collectively prepared to meet the real future challenges of this world, who can't face the hard and unpleasant truths about themselves -- and thus fulfil the vital first step of real personal change and betterment, and who simply refuse to even contemplate the ego-busting possibility of being wrong about anything.

Think about this. This ENTIRE thing is built on a mountainous landfill of practically nothing, and reacting like tiny screaming babies to that practically nothing. Not just them -- us, too: a huge amount of the anti-Muslim fever in this country is also based on prejudice, rumour, and outright lies. Not every last shred, of course, but mostly. And the fact that so many Americans take their received wisdom about all this from doubtful sources -- and then actually make important decisions based on that -- is no better than what's happening over there.

So don't y'all get too smug or judgemental. We haven't stormed any embassies lately, that's true. But when it comes to evaluating facts and deciding how to respond based on what we 'know,' we're not batting much better than anyone else.

super well said!

And no, we dont storm embassies when bad things happen to us, we make mistakes on a good ol AMERICAN scale.

Libyans get pissed off at the West for something? Raid an embassy.Americans get pissed off at al Qaeda? Invade Iraq and kill 100,000 iraqis.

Because, hey, we "took the gloves off" and "grew some brass balls" and "[other overly simplicistic metaphor indicating manliness]", who cares if it was against the wrong people.

Sgt Stubby:If he ever existed, that is. The evidence points to 'prophet' mohammad actually being a composite character

I'll go with the overwhelming consensus of historians that Abū al-Qāsim Muḥammad was a real individual who rallied nomadic tribesmen to become caravan raiders. The many merchant raids and battles he led his armies into are documented in non-religious historical writings, starting with The Battle of Badr fought on Saturday, 13 March 624 AD. The whole Islam as a religion thing came about 200 years after his death.

In fact, I have never even seen even one source imply he wasn't a real person. But if you have a citation otherwise I will read it.

Shhhh, you are proving the case that free speech only applies to those who agree with left democrats. Also, announcing that you are ignoring someone is just like an attention whore doing cartwheels across the page and offering BIE

jakomo002:Waxing_Chewbacca: No. It wasn't. It was about throwing out dictators.

Except, and this is important, before the dictators were overthrown by their people, the USA fully supported those same dictators for decades.

Take Hosni Mubarak in Egypt. For 40 years he was America's best friend, recipient of billions odf dollars in military aid. Egypt wasn't at war with anyone, so the military hardware was trained on the POPULACE, to keep the dictator in control.

Do you honestly for one second believe that Egyptians are running around saying "Whoo-hoo all is forgiven America!" They're distrustful and angry. Which, based on US actions in the Middle East, they sure as shiat should be.

I understand and agree. But those who turn to terrorism must blown off the face off the planet. Drones are a surgical method of doing what must be done. So grow the fark and understand there are no absolutes in foreign policy. I'm also done with you until you can post my entire statement and not cut only what you wish to use to make your point. Oh... And this... The far-right AND the far-left have one important thing in common. An inability to understand that dogmatic adherence to ideology will very likely get us all killed.

Sgt Stubby:Why is everyone forced to say and write 'prophet mohammad' when discussing islam but not Lord Jesus when referencing Christianity? Oh, I forgot. Islam might get angry... and people could die.

You all (Christian, Jewish, Muslim) are farking idiots, blindly following the shiat your parents shoved down your throats. Grow the fark up already. This applies x2 to the Muslims, as they seem to be the ones blowing up more shiat this century. Leave the rest of us alone. We are so farking sick of you all.

Lt. Cheese Weasel:Mugato: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the BIG SHIAT SAMMICH. And Obamas lack of any balls means we all get a bite. American citizens are being murdered. American soil is being over run. And we have Mickey Mouse in the White House. Libya, Cairo, now Yemen, this is just the beginning. Open Wide.

You sound tired.

I'm tired of clueless, gutless morans like you who only want to blame America and our allies first.

Well you seemed pretty quick to blame the president and make a number of empty meaningless accusations about his ability, so... you tire of yourself?

nmemkha:While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

So if the Tea Party had a history of violence would that mean that Michael Moore could never responsibly make a documentary critical of them?

Except, and this is important, before the dictators were overthrown by their people, the USA fully supported those same dictators for decades.

Take Hosni Mubarak in Egypt. For 40 years he was America's best friend, recipient of billions odf dollars in military aid. Egypt wasn't at war with anyone, so the military hardware was trained on the POPULACE, to keep the dictator in control.

Do you honestly for one second believe that Egyptians are running around saying "Whoo-hoo all is forgiven America!" They're distrustful and angry. Which, based on US actions in the Middle East, they sure as shiat should be.

Lt. Cheese Weasel:Mugato: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the BIG SHIAT SAMMICH. And Obamas lack of any balls means we all get a bite. American citizens are being murdered. American soil is being over run. And we have Mickey Mouse in the White House. Libya, Cairo, now Yemen, this is just the beginning. Open Wide.

You sound tired.

I'm tired of clueless, gutless morans like you who only want to blame America and our allies first.

Yeah, unlike you, who has the brass balls to sit at a computer and tell others to do... what exactly in response to this? Invade more random ME countries? Well guess what genius, we tried that and under Bush we had a lot more embassies attacked than we do now, with more deaths. People like you are the reason the term "chicken hawk" was invented.

Archimedes' Principal:Let me guess, the next message from President Obama will be, " "I VERY strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi Yemen, and fart in your general direction."

/ Ma, it looks like them chickens is comin' home to roost.

Please explain what you think should be done without igniting the entire region and destabilizing the worlds energy markets which in turn will utterly destroy the worlds economy back to Bush 2 levels of desperation.

Waxing_Chewbacca:President Obama's drone program has been very effective. Don't want drones in your country? Join the world community and drag your sorry ass out of the 7th century!

Just realize that if you Do send drones to my country, and start bombing "suspected militants" (not to imply there's athe slightest lick of judicial review or any actual legal process), and you kill busloads of innocents, some of my countrymen are going to be angry and will try to even the odds by killing YOUR people wherever they can find them.

So when an embassy gets attacked and Americans die, just think this : "This is the cost of doing the kind of business we do" and man the fark up. It's just the calculus of war.

Joe Blowme:Oh the poor islamic psychos, why can we just let them kill gays and beat their women in peace right?

No, but if you constantly kill innocent people in your "stability exercises", they might just band together and try to get you back. Like, say, storming an embassy. Or flying planes into your buildings.

It's human nature to try to get revenge after you're wronged, which is what this is. Predictable even, for anyone who knows what the USA hasd been doing in Yemen to Yemenis.

None of this has to do with "Islamic psychos", it's mostly very very angry citizens of the countries where you've farked the populace over by decades of support of dictators (think Mubarak). The Arab Spring was good, but do you honestly believe that people are just going to forget the last 40 years and suddenly start waving American flags?

Lunaville:SuperT: ya know, I say just one of these shiat bird dirt holes we should just pick to treat like the romans would. Just say "I'm tired of putting up with your retarded horse shiat, you either come on board, be americans and be cool or we go full 13 legion on your ass". No occupation, just kill the opposition and get on with your day. Remind them that we treat these little pissant extremist with kid gloves because we don't want to hurt the innocent people they hide amoung.

I think I'm missing something here. Are you stating that we should demand that people in Libya and Yemen be and act as Americans?

TheKiwiBird:LL316: nmemkha: While the "outrage" is most likely an excuse to vent anger at the US, they producers of the film were callously negligent. Free Speech is a right, but with every right comes a responsibility. They knew there would be violence at the release of the film and yet they released it anyway. Unfortunately, its not their loved ones who are dying, but innocent people caught up in an unnecessary firestorm.

Totally agree with this, but don't go putting the fault there. The fault lies with the animals who react this way over a movie, not the movie maker himself. It's the rapist, not the low cut dress that commits the bad act.

picard.jpg

Are you farking shiatting me?! I heard this argument yesterday and I still can't farking believe it. When a certain event causes a certain reaction in a populace with 100% repeating rate, if you do that event, you know damn well that populace is going to react as they do when they get word of it unless you live under a farking rock.

There's already a link in this thread where they SAID they knew what I said was true, and that is just willful negligence. They are as guilty for the deaths of the victims as the rioters themselves.

It's not a poor lady getting raped because she wore a low cut dress, it's a lady wearing a low cut dress while walking down an alley famous for rape attacks, with 'come and get it' signs taped on her tits and ass.

And if they had attacked the person responsible for the film, you might have an argument. But they didn't, so you don't.

digitalrain:poe_zlaw: I wonder how many low-budget lame ass movies of been made about America and Christianity in the middle east How many embassies got stormed by peaceloving Americans in the United States?

Good point. Much of the middle east HATE Westerners and are very blatant about the fact.Do we go around storming their embassies? Do we even say "screw you - solve your owndamn problems"? Nope and nope. They hate us and we accept that as their right to do so.

On the flip side, one nutjob, who is too much of a coward to even use his real name, makesa really, really bad movie - that is also incredibly offensive - and they take it out on folkswho had absolutely nothing to do with its production or distribution, folks whose only purposein being in their country in the first place is to help foster cooperation and diplomatic ties.

jakomo002:Of course, none of this Yemeni anger has anything to do with the fact that the U.S. has been involved in a low-level war there for years.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/yemen-drone-war/

29 Dead in 8 Days as U.S. Puts Yemen Drone War in Overdrive

29 dead in a little over a week. Nearly 200 gone this year. The White House is stepping up its campaign of drone attacks in Yemen, with four strikes in eight days. And not even the slaying of 10 civilians over the weekend seems to have slowed the pace in the United States' secretive, undeclared war.

TOTALLY unrelated, amirite? I'm sure Yemenis celebrate when they see a foreign government's attack drones in their skies, and they're probably unaffected when those drones bomb the shiat out of their neighbours.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06/yemen-war/all/

After years of sending drones and commandos into Pakistan, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta last week finally admitted the obvious: The US is "fighting a war" there. But American robots and special forces aren't just targeting militants in Pakistan. They're doing the same - with increasing frequency and increasing lethality - in Yemen. The latest drone attack happened early Wednesday in the Yemeni town of Azzan, killing nine people. It's the 23rd strike in Yemen so far this year, according to the Long War Journal. In Pakistan, there have been only 22.

They can't actually defend themsleves against drone attacks, so this is probably the only way they can voice displeasure, by trashing the embassy. Because actions have consequences.

Oh the poor islamic psychos, why can we just let them kill gays and beat their women in peace right?

Beauf:Nofun: TV's Vinnie: You know what? F*CK IT! I'm not going to get worked up about a bunch of butthurt donkey-molesters in some craphole Islamist country anymore. Haters gonna hate. Period. Nothing we do short of blowing them up will effect them.

Just

blow

them

up!

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. If we want the moral high ground, we must act like it.

No, it leaves the whole world one-eyed and I would prefer that my enemy share my lack of depth perception. That being said, we have to be smart about how we do it. GW's approach to ridding the world of terrorists (and that of most of the right wing "just blow 'em all up" crowd) was somewhat akin to ridding the world of starfish by cutting off their arms and throwing them back into the water. I prefer the well planned surgical strike on the people responsible.

Now here's what really interests me. What would have happened if we hadn't invaded Afghanistan or Iraq? What if Bush had just killed Bin Laden and gone after Al Qaeda? Seems like we would have save trillions of dollars and accomplished about the same thing as we have today.

2006Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy is foiled.

2007Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy is fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries.

2008Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.

Well yeah, but at least Bush sent a SEAL team to get bin Laden. WTF has Obama done?!

common sense is an oxymoron:In other news, the maker of the film that started it all has gone into hiding, his spokesman was chosen because he leads anti-Islamic protests at mosques and schools, and the cast claims that much of the dialogue was dubbed in without their knowledge or consent.

bborchar:Places where oppression and ignorance reign protest against a country whose culture threatens that...after I got past the shock of it, I just really feel sorry for these people. They will never know peace or stability as long as the many are ruled by the few who use religion and violence as a means of suppression.

Thunderpipes:Need to take the kid gloves off and leave them off. Pussy McHopeChange is just like Carter.

You douches need to get your talking points straight. Is Obama a war monger for sending over those drones and having bin Laden killed instead of captured or is he a pussy for not invading a few random countries in response to a riot?

You know, if President Bush hadn't ordered the bombing of Libya in 2011 and all of those drone strikes in Yemen, we wouldn't be in this mess. Bleeping Republicans - we're always having to clean up their messes.

So, any of you big talking trolls going to give the exact policy that Obama "created" that directly caused everybody to throw down their "Tickle Me Goat Carcass" and start fighting or are you guys waiting for Rush and Palin tell you what to say?

somedude210:SuperT: ya know, I say just one of these shiat bird dirt holes we should just pick to treat like the romans would. Just say "I'm tired of putting up with your retarded horse shiat, you either come on board, be americans and be cool or we go full 13 legion on your ass". No occupation, just kill the opposition and get on with your day. Remind them that we treat these little pissant extremist with kid gloves because we don't want to hurt the innocent people they hide amoung.

then we have a whole other issue. The great thing going for the Romans was that they were the only empire in the known world. We have several right now, so if we did something like that, the world would go apeshiat and we'd be held accountable

Agarista:I think the dubbing and promotion of the film are pretty much in line with a premeditated "fire" in a crowded cinema.

It's not really analogous at all but it's just as bad.In this case, there is no false claim being made as in the shouting fire analogy, but showing this film trailer is certain to inflame criminal behavior.

Maybe youTube should, uh, take it down. On account of the murders and stormed embassies and stuff.If anyone typed just a few lines from that video here on fark, they'd get banned for hate speech instantly.

Yemen is a rough place and has been on the verge of civil war since the beginning of the Arab Spring. It was a sort-of democracy before that. And before that it was two countries and one conquered the other one.

I would expect the American embassy to be pretty heavily guarded. Hope so.

Also Yemen is a beautiful country with an amazing cultural heritage, and Yemen/Ethiopia is one of the world's oldest centers of civilization. The capital, Sana'a, is one of the world's most beautiful cities.

Seriously. If this is a coordinated thing by Al Qaeda groups, or even if they're just playing copycat, we need to be beefing up security in places like Pakistan, Gulf countries, and even some of the other usual suspects in Africa. It looks like Al Qaeda has realized that inciting mob violence is much more effective at creating chaos than a "simple" but deadlier bombing.

doglover:Cpl.D: I thought they equipped all US embassies with that active denial system

You know what looks worse in the media than your embassy gettin' a little B&E? Unleashing automatic weapons on unarmed civilians. Hell, we're still learning about a handful of musket balls launched more than 200 years ago at a couple early Bostonians who you probably would have shot too.

As bad as riots get, active denial systems aren't for mere flag burning and trespass. That's why they keep the weapons in the secure areas, which weren't raided.

So we should allow violent protesters with RPGs and small arms just right on in, so we can lose more US persons, who were simply there trying to make a difference? When do you begin to use the active denial system? Never? Is it simply there as a show of force? I don't think so. If you are part of an angry mob and start to storm an embassy, and you see that the guy next to you has an RPG/AK-47/hand grenade/whatever, you should probably run the other way, because in any logical situation, he's going to escalate things beyond a point where you wish to be a participant. If, on the other hand, you see this, and decide to continue your "protest" you are, and will be (and SHOULD be) treated as a target and a threat.

/I work for the State Dept and am currently at a US embassy abroad after serving a year in Baghdad, Iraq//So I'm getting a kick out of these, etc etc...

Some retards make an awful video and post it on YouTube. Some other retards react badly to it. It's a circle of stupid. But for anyone convincing themselves that this is all planned by a sinister cabal of bearded men somewhere, get a grip. Time and again we've seen fundamentalist Muslims riot over what some yokel has done. The Muhammad cartoons, the Koran burnings, and now this. You've got a lot of angry, listless young men whose religion and culture forbids any sort of normal stress relief like booze or women. So when someone tells them to be outraged, they're all for it.

A colleague of mine spent some time there a few years ago. He said it's actually a beautiful country with some fantastic scenery that could do great tourism if it wanted to. The only problem with Yemen, he said, is that it's filled with Yemenis.

It's election season, and it looks like Al Qaeda is trying to get rid of the worst enemy it's had in the White House to date. And the useful idiots of the American Right are all too happy to try and oblige them.

Bigdogdaddy:Rmoney wants a repeat of the Iran hostage cricis because he thinks it will make Obama look "just like Carter". However, Romney doesn't have the CIA to back him like Reagan did by having Bush on the ticket.

If you haven't you should read the book "See no Evil" by Robert Baer, who was a CIA agent in that region at that time. It provides some interesting insight into what was going on and what we did or didn't do about it. It should be required reading for anyone with a hand in planning our response.

Bigdogdaddy:Rmoney wants a repeat of the Iran hostage cricis because he thinks it will make Obama look "just like Carter". However, Romney doesn't have the CIA to back him like Reagan did by having Bush on the ticket.

You say that now but if Romney is elected I bet he can sell weapons to Libya, Egypt, and Yemen yet while aiding drug smuggling in South America/our country and funding South American death squads. Maybe that's his policy and why he refuses to talk about it.

Rmoney wants a repeat of the Iran hostage cricis because he thinks it will make Obama look "just like Carter". However, Romney doesn't have the CIA to back him like Reagan did by having Bush on the ticket.

If animals can be commodities, so can humans. In fact, it's better if it's humans (except for food because prions) as you can explain things to humans in a way that they can make the educated choice to undergo whatever it is we need them for.

You can probably dig up some crazy people to take experimental drugs at high doses to asses safety. I don't think you can find mice who can consent to that.

That doesn't mean the person you were replying to wasn't being a full on idiot, but humans are the only animal capable of being a commodity ethically. All the others must be assumed to be doing so against their will.

BullBearMS:Hmmm... There was an interesting theory being discussed on Slashdot the other day.

whenever the UN's food price index, which measures the monthly change in the price of a basket of food commodities, climbs above 210, the conditions ripen for social unrest around the world.

(Said the researchers behind the study) "on December 13, 2010, we submitted a government report analyzing the repercussions of the global financial crises, and directly identifying the risk of social unrest and political instability due to food prices." Four days later, Mohamed Bouazizi set himself on fire as an act of protest in Tunisia.

Today, the food price index is hovering around 213, where it has stayed for months-just beyond the tip of the identified threshold.

We absolutely know there's a direct link between access to things necessary to sustain life and societal peace. This relationship is at the heart of most revolutions.

It's terrifying to think this future - one of increasingly limited access to clean drinking water and food - is one in which the US is likely to face if climate scientists are right.

Everyone knows, before all this started, we were basically already at war in Yemen, right?

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/yemen-drone-war/

I also don't buy this conspiracy about concerted attacks until someone official without an agenda tells me so or there is evidence actually presented to the public. Yesterday it was all unnamed sources, a thinktank in London and Rep. Mike Rogers who earlier this week leaked a story about Netanyahu yelling at the U.S. State Department. That I saw anyway.

The Arab Spring spread from country to country and no one said that that was premeditated or coordinated. Until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume this is similar.

austin_millbarge:Joe Six-Keg: duckfarkit: Sweet baby Jesus. The reverb from the Arab Spring. I so want Obama to handle this well; otherwise this is ammo for the rtards & a recipe for disaster

Problem is, no matter how the President handles it, it's ammo for the Tea Party/Republicans/Neocons. Pathetic that such things are politicized so freaking badly, and that there are some people who are cheering for the deaths of Americans just to make "the other side" look bad.

THIS.

In their minds anything short of carpet bombing and then stabbing the leftover corpses is a projection of weakness.

Actually I think they would prefer Reagan's approach to attacks on US Marines, embassies, and consulates............. Nothing at all or maybe sell them arms while talking tough.

Joe Six-Keg:duckfarkit: Sweet baby Jesus. The reverb from the Arab Spring. I so want Obama to handle this well; otherwise this is ammo for the rtards & a recipe for disaster

Problem is, no matter how the President handles it, it's ammo for the Tea Party/Republicans/Neocons. Pathetic that such things are politicized so freaking badly, and that there are some people who are cheering for the deaths of Americans just to make "the other side" look bad.

THIS.

In their minds anything short of carpet bombing and then stabbing the leftover corpses is a projection of weakness.

The producer of this film turns out to not exist. The screening that so upset the Muslim world never happened. News organizations have yet to find any Muslim on the street who has seen it, most of those interviewed hadn't even heard of it.

This stinks to high heaven.

We are being used, yet again.

A "Gulf of Tonkin" is being engineered by those who want us to get mired in yet another war over there. Anywhere. Because war means money for some people. And they're not waiting for a change of administration, especially since this administration is probably going to be re-elected. And if Obama doesn't get re-elected, they can blame him for starting the war.

This is my tinfoil. Get your own.

Naw, I agree. Too much similar bullshiat in too many places at once at too convenient a time. The assholes have staged the precipitating incident, anti-US bias has been confirmed and now the administration is forced to make some kind of move. Early October surprise. Happy election season, dicks.

The anti-Mohammed film is, as far as I can tell, a "film" in the same way that a middle-school girl using her Cricket phone held at arms length to record a diss video about how mean that stupid Ashleigh is (and the fact that she's not nearly as pretty as she thinks she is, and also she's like totally mistaken if she thinks Brian is interested in her, because he totally isn't and stuff, so step off biatch) and then uploads it to YouTube is. The closest this movie is ever going to get to a cinema is if someone watches it, on YouTube, on their phone while they sit in the theater waiting for the real movie (say, "Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters") to start.

I don't even like walking past a US embassy in western countries because it feels like they are ready to take you down at a moment's notice. Attacking a US embassy in an eastern country is either done through a concerted effort and planning or done by very, very stupid people.

Quit freaking out. We got attacked in Libya by an Al Qaeda cell. The stuff in Egypt and Yemen so far just look like normal, every day, pissed-off Muslim demonstrations, orchestrated by Islamists, but not particularly dangerous. Neither of these things are new, nor do they call for "kicking ass" or any other response other than beefing up security against actual terrorists while talking in a soothing voice to the nice rioting mob, There, there, Muhammed isn't being dissed by the US government, there, there.