In the absence of an Australian Barnevelder breed club, I thought I'd start a thread that could be used as a general resource for those of us interested or experienced in breeding them.We could share pics, provide links to useful resources and ask questionsPerhaps share some stock.

Does the idea of such a thread have appeal? If so I'll start with some pics of my birds on the weekend.

Last edited by sue55 on Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A Australian Barnevelder breed club, would be a hard thing to do as I under stand now there is two different groups of Barnevelder breeders.. One is a group that breeds to the APS that has males with gray under feather at the base of the tail... The over group is breeding to the revised Dutch standard, that has female with good laceing, but males with white under feathers.. Just before I started to learn about Barnevelders. I was a wear of this disagreement.

So What are we supposed to be breeding towards ? the APS2 or the revised Dutch standards which is all about the gene eb..

That's a tricky one. My preference would be for APS2 to reflect the standard from the place of origin. Unfortunately if you want to show and win with males - as opposed to showcasing the breed you need to breed to APS2. The other issue seems to be that there is an inverse relationship between the dark egg colour and good type in the hens This is what I think we should be working towards, as in the Marans, the egg colour is part of what defines the breed. Ideally the ultimate goal ould be a good type bird which lays the appropriate egg colour. Is this too much to ask? Should we consider seperate pullet and cockerel breeding - I hope not.

I think that it is not realistic to expect exhibition breeders to try to produce perfect show specimens and also select for a characteristic which is not rewarded on the show bench.My preference is for pretty eggs ahead of pretty birds but I don't have a problem with there being more than one correct type of barnevelder depending on purpose. It is hard to see a revival of dark brown egg barnevelders without some sort of concerted effort by breeders.

eb is one of the colour bases. Colour bases affect the way colours and patterns display. ie Two birds (eg barnevelders) with the same genetic colour makup but on different bases will have differences, sometimes subtle, sometimes not so.

All laced wyandottes are on an eb base. My basic understanding is that eb is the most suitable base to make a patterned hen. I would assume that the barnevelder hens on an eb base are prettier hence the attraction. I would suspect that in the quest to quickly repair the broken pattern genes after crossing to an eb base, some of the genes that enhance the egg colour were lost in some eb lines.

I don't know anything about the barnevelder standard or the breed but it sounds like the standard was based on a e+ or eWh and there has been a trend towards eb for the prettier pullets and a subsequent loss in egg colour.

That's all suspicions and assumptions surrounding a basic understanding of genetics but i hope it stirs some discussion that pushes things in the right direction .

Thanks Dotte. That does make a little sense........I think. It will be good to have some fresh eyes on the genetics here (hopefully will help to clear some of the 'old 'air) I suspect that there are a lot of similarities between Barnevelders and wWyandottes (geno and pheno) Now, given that your proposed side project 'failed to proceed', you must have some room for Barnies.

Last edited by sue55 on Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

OK now, so many questionsWhy are our standards different - are they after showier, more laced males - are they a reflection of what was available when the standards were setDoes eb effect the breast lacing in the malesWhat will be the implications of importing Barnevelders if they don't comply with our standards (British Standards?)What are people observing re the relationship between male breast colour and the effect on female phenotype and egg colour (the proof is in the pudding) - I believe that the Geering birds have good results, what about others

Most of the experts say that egg colour is controlled by a dozen or more genes. I wonder whether there is any evidence that any of these genes are linked with plumage colour and pattern genes which seems to be the inference in some of the preceding comments.My program to breed for a darker egg laying strain of Barnevelders is still in its early stages and will need an infusion of genes from other sources. I often see fertile Barnevelder eggs for sale but they are almost always very lightly coloured. It would be terrific if like minded people could co-operate in breeding projects such as this to obtain much more rapid progress but that is probably a fairly idealistic hope.My limited experience with Barnevelders is that those I obtained and bred about 35 years ago laid quite dark and often speckled eggs. The markings of the hens was often more stippled than clearly laced and there was none of the the gingery colouring that often seems to crop up now.

OK now, so many questionsWhy are our standards different - are they after showier, more laced males - are they a reflection of what was available when the standards were set

I read some of the history of Barnvelders in the early days. Most of the Barnverelders in the old farms talk of Barnvelders being black all over and only some with a very bad single or double lace.It was the showman that worked on the laceing. What did they use to work on it or how the bred it? ,no one knows .. But there's a lot of Idea's around..

Quote:

Does eb effect the breast lacing in the males

Don't know.. Do know from what I have seen from photo's from the dutch barnvelder club is the have white under feather not gray as in the APS2.

Quote:

What will be the implications of importing Barnevelders if they don't comply with our standards (British Standards?)

We have the same standards for barnvelders from day one.. If other countries want to change there standards that's up to them.. If Australia changes it's standards it's up to Australia.. For me at this time , I will breed to the Australian standards, until it changes.

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