I agree with Hillia - You could just say "Given how Claire treated so many of us at your wedding, her presence would make people very uncomfortable at my party and I really want people to enjoy themselves.".

I agree with both SingMeAway and Hillia. Claire should not be allowed to make your party uncomfortable, even if only by her presence.

"Jenny, I only told you half of the things Claire did at the wedding. She didn't like me or at least the fact that I was your MOH.I dealt with it because I love you and wanted your wedding to be great. However, i have to say no to Claire coming over. It would be much too stressful."

"Jenny, I only told you half of the things Claire did at the wedding. She didn't like me or at least the fact that I was your MOH.I dealt with it because I love you and wanted your wedding to be great. However, i have to say no to Claire coming over. It would be much too stressful."

I'd go with this.

I like this also. This is what I would go with when talking to Jenny. (The only reason I said my previous post, was if Jenny was that important to me, I might let Claire into my home, with conditions. But, with so many other guests who would be uncomfortable, it is better to not have Claire at all in my own home).

I don't think it's rude to ask depending on the all the people involved, the host's personality, and the circumstances. My family and friends have all done it. For example, if Claire had been a wonderful person and she and the OP/bridesmaids had great time at the wedding. But in this case, I can't believe Jenny would even ask.

But surely if you use the etiquette-approved approach, your family and friends will offer on their own.

You may think the circumstances are one way, and the hosts' personality would allow it, but you do not know all there is, and you are still putting them on the spot. What if this time they want to restrict the gathering to close friends--but they feel they can't say no to you, since you've asked?

Generous people whose personality would make them want to include your friend will do so if you leave the hint out there, and you haven't actually but them on the spot or forced them to say no.

I guess it just depends on how things are done in your circle (and in my case, culture too).

I don't think it's rude to ask depending on the all the people involved, the host's personality, and the circumstances. My family and friends have all done it. For example, if Claire had been a wonderful person and she and the OP/bridesmaids had great time at the wedding. But in this case, I can't believe Jenny would even ask.

But surely if you use the etiquette-approved approach, your family and friends will offer on their own.

You may think the circumstances are one way, and the hosts' personality would allow it, but you do not know all there is, and you are still putting them on the spot. What if this time they want to restrict the gathering to close friends--but they feel they can't say no to you, since you've asked?

Generous people whose personality would make them want to include your friend will do so if you leave the hint out there, and you haven't actually but them on the spot or forced them to say no.

Surely my friends would see that approach as passive agressive - because it is - and would wonder why I didn't just come out and ask instead of dropping hints. If they want to say no they can say no. It's done quite frequently in my cirlces. Asking if you can bring someone to an informal get together isn't putting someone on the spot any more than asking someone to come to the party is.

There is a friend of a friend who has been to my house twice under those circumstances. After I decided I didn't want him in my house any more I was direct with them, and their roomate. "Hey, I know we usually have a the-more-the-merrier type thing going on and if I invite one of you I generally expect all of you ... but please don't bring Him to my house. He was kind of rude and really rubbed me the wrong way. I'll be polite if I ever see him - just not at my house."

And POD to this too.

If someone called me up and said, "can't come, visiting relative is in town" I'd be inclined to take them at their word. *I* would feel like the rude one, suggesting they come and bring the relative because it would feel (to me) as if I were insisting they come to my party.

In my circle, they would just ask. We tend to just be frank with each other.

And as I said upthread, I'd have no problem saying no, as I have done it before. And again, since we are all on the same page, the friend I said no to accepted that with no hard feelings.

It just doesn't make sense to me to dance around a situation to the point where everyone is bending over backwards trying to make the other party feel comfortable and no one saying what they really mean. In my circle, it's just accepted that we say what we mean (in a polite way of course!) and avoid the inevitable misunderstandings that result from hinting around.

Well, I don't see it as totally uncool. Under normal circumstances, if one is invited to a party and there happens to be a relative or friend who is visiting from out of town during that time, I think it's ok to ask if it's ok to bring them.

Now, this presupposes a lot of things. If it's a seated dinner party for example, not so much. And it should be that you think that person will fit in. Etc.

But I don't think it's inherently rude to ask.

I do think it is rude. The way to handle it is to say, "Oh, I'm so sorry, I would love to come to your party! But, X will be in town visiting that weekend so I won't be able to attend." That gives the host the option of either saying "Well, heck, bring 'em along! The more the merrier!" or "Oh, I understand. So sorry you won't be there." The host is not put in an uncomfortable position and doesn't have to make excuses or feel put on the spot.

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What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

I don't know why there's so much insistence that if an answer might be "no", it's rude to ask. I don't think asking puts someone on the spot. If you can't answer right away, you can say, "Oh, well - let me get a head count and I'll call you back!"

If you have to say no, say no. The asker knew that was a possibility when they asked.

Say that Claire were to attend and behaved beautfully, your enjoyment of your own party would be marred over your anxiety as to what could happen. Remember, Claire's own sister did not want her to be MOH due to her behavior. A Christmas party is a smaller event than a wedding, but still.......

Go with Hillia's response.

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I have enough lithium in my medicine cabinet to power three cars across a sizeable desert. Which makes me officially...Three Cars Crazy

I don't know why there's so much insistence that if an answer might be "no", it's rude to ask. I don't think asking puts someone on the spot. If you can't answer right away, you can say, "Oh, well - let me get a head count and I'll call you back!"

If you have to say no, say no. The asker knew that was a possibility when they asked.

If only it were that simple all the time.

In my experience, saying no to a request like this would lead to the questioner asking why. Then you have to explain that you really don't like the person, which can lead to a discussion you'd rather not have.

Or you have to explain that there's limited space, or you've already bought just enough food, or whatever, and the questioner might push a bit--"Oh, we can sit anywhere, don't need to sit at the table," "Susie doesn't eat much," that sort of thing.

I don't see "I can't come to your event because my cousin's in town," as dancing around the issue. It's a statement of fact. It does not put the host on the spot the way asking if said Cousin can attend the event. It's far more pleasant for the person hosting, than getting a direct question that they may not want to answer as directly.

I don't know why there's so much insistence that if an answer might be "no", it's rude to ask. I don't think asking puts someone on the spot. If you can't answer right away, you can say, "Oh, well - let me get a head count and I'll call you back!"

If you have to say no, say no. The asker knew that was a possibility when they asked.

If only it were that simple all the time.

In my experience, saying no to a request like this would lead to the questioner asking why. Then you have to explain that you really don't like the person, which can lead to a discussion you'd rather not have.

Or you have to explain that there's limited space, or you've already bought just enough food, or whatever, and the questioner might push a bit--"Oh, we can sit anywhere, don't need to sit at the table," "Susie doesn't eat much," that sort of thing.

I don't see "I can't come to your event because my cousin's in town," as dancing around the issue. It's a statement of fact. It does not put the host on the spot the way asking if said Cousin can attend the event. It's far more pleasant for the person hosting, than getting a direct question that they may not want to answer as directly.

If it's not dancing around the issue, then I'd take them at their word and not insist they come anyway. "I can't come" means "I can't come." To me anyway. It doesn't communicate to me, "why don't you go ahead and invite my cousin too as I don't want to ask.". That would be dancing around the issue. So If you tell me you can't come, oh well, sorry, see you next time. If you want to bring your cousin, ask. If I say no and you start insisting or questioning why, then I'm going to reconsider the level of friendship I wish to maintain with you.

I'm a firm believer in "say what you mean". You wanna bring your cousin? Ask. I don't want your cousin to come? I'll say so. But by the same token, if you say, "I can't come", then, well, you can't come.

I would think that the guest could say, "Oh, I'd love to, but I think I'd better say no--my cousin is visiting from out of town, and I can't really leave them home alone."

Any generous host would assume that an invitation to the cousin would be welcome.

I've never agreed with the "it's not rude to ask" idea. There are situation in which it truly "doesn't hurt to ask," but they're never about someone else's hospitality. (They're stuff like, can I get an extra pat of butter at the restaurant; do they have this in a size 8 in the back; etc.)

I want to agree with YummyMummy because I believe strongly in second chances, but not at a party in my own home. I wouldn't want the other bridesmaids to be uncomfortable, I wouldn't want Jenny to have to play referee, and I wouldn't want to be worrying all evening about whether Claire has figured out how to tone down her behavior at the party I'm hosting.

Agreed. I would like to believe that Claire has learned from her mistakes, but I would not want to put my party on the line if she hasn't. I'd be stressed, other guests would be stressed- it wouldn't make a happy gathering.

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If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,Five things observe with care,To whom you speak,Of whom you speak,And how, and when, and where.Caroline Lake Ingalls

I don't know why there's so much insistence that if an answer might be "no", it's rude to ask. I don't think asking puts someone on the spot. If you can't answer right away, you can say, "Oh, well - let me get a head count and I'll call you back!"

If you have to say no, say no. The asker knew that was a possibility when they asked.

If only it were that simple all the time.

In my experience, saying no to a request like this would lead to the questioner asking why. Then you have to explain that you really don't like the person, which can lead to a discussion you'd rather not have.

Or you have to explain that there's limited space, or you've already bought just enough food, or whatever, and the questioner might push a bit--"Oh, we can sit anywhere, don't need to sit at the table," "Susie doesn't eat much," that sort of thing.

I don't see "I can't come to your event because my cousin's in town," as dancing around the issue. It's a statement of fact. It does not put the host on the spot the way asking if said Cousin can attend the event. It's far more pleasant for the person hosting, than getting a direct question that they may not want to answer as directly.

I don't think it's rude to ask depending on the all the people involved, the host's personality, and the circumstances. My family and friends have all done it. For example, if Claire had been a wonderful person and she and the OP/bridesmaids had great time at the wedding. But in this case, I can't believe Jenny would even ask.

But surely if you use the etiquette-approved approach, your family and friends will offer on their own.

You may think the circumstances are one way, and the hosts' personality would allow it, but you do not know all there is, and you are still putting them on the spot. What if this time they want to restrict the gathering to close friends--but they feel they can't say no to you, since you've asked?

Generous people whose personality would make them want to include your friend will do so if you leave the hint out there, and you haven't actually but them on the spot or forced them to say no.

I guess it just depends on how things are done in your circle (and in my case, culture too).

I think it is a generational thing. Toots and I are approximately the same generation/age. I was raised that in no certain terms do you EVER ask b/c it puts the host on the spot. It just.is.not.done.

Now, it seems many are of the opposite attitude and I wonder if those are younger. I always cringe when I see people say it is ok to ask. To me, it never is.