Players dont become good defenders over night and his position is one of the hardest positions to defend.

Agreed, but, he was known to be a versatile defender coming into the draft ironically... He is quite good in passing lanes, and has very active hands, but he can't stay in front of his man, and has poor close-outs. His fundamentals defensively are poor, but his athleticism makes up for it, which might fool us for him improving as a defender.

Demar's athleticism allows him to intercept passes, block shots, steal the ball etc. He just can't stay in front of anyone, if he gets beat, he can make up for it with quick hands, high jumping, and quick hops.

Why are you avoiding Gibson for my benefit? The point I was trying to make is that you have to overpay to keep players that are coming off their rookie contracts. Chicago did it with Gibson. The Raptors with DeRozan. Is Ty Lawson really worth $48M? He's good but not that good.

I'm not comparing the Raptors with the Bulls, you are. It has nothing to do with the conversation.

Well, if you think the Bulls (and now the Nuggets) have nothing to do with the conversation then obviously you don't really understand what this argument is about.

Ty Lawson's contract isn't good, but they are headed to the playoffs and will win at least 50 games this year. So as a fan, it's something you can swallow because the team is winning games. Same applies to Taj Gibson. In that sense I agree with you -- sometimes you need to overpay a player to retain them.

On the other hand, we are a team that will win 35 games if we play some of our best ball all season for the remaining two months. This is a team, prior to DeRozan's new contract, that has $67M in contracts. We've spent $67M to build a team capable of winning 35 games.

I think DeRozan is a pretty good player, but I have very hard time thinking this contract was a good idea. I think other teams would agree that it would be great to have a guy like DeRozan, but when you see the price tag it's like "umm.. no.". I'd much rather sacrifice a bit of offense and get someone like, say, Courtney who does pretty everything the same as DeRozan but is maybe a little less athletic and half the price. I think when you're looking at the Raptors, from the standpoint that we have a whole bunch of money locked into a roster that can only win 40 games (maybe?), then you need to be trying to find ways to save money -- not unnecessarily spend. That's all I was trying to say.

Well, if you think the Bulls (and now the Nuggets) have nothing to do with the conversation then obviously you don't really understand what this argument is about.

Ty Lawson's contract isn't good, but they are headed to the playoffs and will win at least 50 games this year. So as a fan, it's something you can swallow because the team is winning games. Same applies to Taj Gibson. In that sense I agree with you -- sometimes you need to overpay a player to retain them.

On the other hand, we are a team that will win 35 games if we play some of our best ball all season for the remaining two months. This is a team, prior to DeRozan's new contract, that has $67M in contracts. We've spent $67M to build a team capable of winning 35 games.

I think DeRozan is a pretty good player, but I have very hard time thinking this contract was a good idea. I think other teams would agree that it would be great to have a guy like DeRozan, but when you see the price tag it's like "umm.. no.". I'd much rather sacrifice a bit of offense and get someone like, say, Courtney who does pretty everything the same as DeRozan but is maybe a little less athletic and half the price. I think when you're looking at the Raptors, from the standpoint that we have a whole bunch of money locked into a roster that can only win 40 games (maybe?), then you need to be trying to find ways to save money -- not unnecessarily spend. That's all I was trying to say.

For me it's not just about the total amount of money spent, but the fact that the team has a finite amount of money to spend, due to the salary cap. If the NBA were like MLB and MLSE were willing to spend big money, I could care less what any individual player is making.

For me, the big issue is the team spending $27.4M next season on the starting wings (Gay @ $17.9M & DeRozan @ $9.5M). Neither of them are great 3pt shooters, neither of them are great defenders and they're both inefficient volume scorers. I don't think they're a great fit together and it's a huge amount of money spent on two individually good players, who are not ideal together.

When you consider the fact that the team has other areas of weakness to address and are so far over the cap, the options for doing so are very limited. When you look at the wings, it becomes obvious that Gay is the better player and likely the least tradeable (DeRozan is younger, cheaper and signed longer). That's why, for me anyway, it becomes apparent that trading DeRozan becomes the most effective means of acquiring the best possible talent at another position. The loss of DeRozan would be huge, but the team has both Fields and Ross ready to fill the SG role long-term, with both projecting to be better fits alongside Gay (though neither is as good as DeRozan straight-up, at least right now).

Considering the option of trading DeRozan to add an equally talented starting PF, for example, is all about asset/salary cap management to me. It has nothing to do with any negative feelings towards DeRozan, but rather an objective view of the franchise's current situation; team strengths, team weaknesses and legitimate options to address the weaknesses within the limitations of the CBA.

For me it's not just about the total amount of money spent, but the fact that the team has a finite amount of money to spend, due to the salary cap. If the NBA were like MLB and MLSE were willing to spend big money, I could care less what any individual player is making.

For me, the big issue is the team spending $27.4M next season on the starting wings (Gay @ $17.9M & DeRozan @ $9.5M). Neither of them are great 3pt shooters, neither of them are great defenders and they're both inefficient volume scorers. I don't think they're a great fit together and it's a huge amount of money spent on two individually good players, who are not ideal together.

When you consider the fact that the team has other areas of weakness to address and are so far over the cap, the options for doing so are very limited. When you look at the wings, it becomes obvious that Gay is the better player and likely the least tradeable (DeRozan is younger, cheaper and signed longer). That's why, for me anyway, it becomes apparent that trading DeRozan becomes the most effective means of acquiring the best possible talent at another position. The loss of DeRozan would be huge, but the team has both Fields and Ross ready to fill the SG role long-term, with both projecting to be better fits alongside Gay (thought neither is as good as DeRozan straight-up, at least right now).

Considering the option of trading DeRozan to add an equally talented starting PF, for example, is all about asset/salary cap management to me. It has nothing to do with any negative feelings towards DeRozan, but rather an objective view of the franchise's current situation; team strengths, team weaknesses and legitimate options to address the weaknesses within the limitations of the CBA.

Agreed. I felt DeRozan was extremely underused for the entire 4th quarter. Anderson and Lucas were left in far too long and didn't get DeRozan the ball enough. I blame DC for not drawing up key plays for the hot hands.

I Blame DC for every fourth quarter loss. The man just never learns, his so called veterans are trash. Play the damn rookies and if we lose we still gain some experience for them. What do you gain from playing veteran scrubs and losing? nothing, absolutely nothing.

I Blame DC for every fourth quarter loss. The man just never learns, his so called veterans are trash. Play the damn rookies and if we lose we still gain some experience for them. What do you gain from playing veteran scrubs and losing? nothing, absolutely nothing.

You get accountability. I think it's a good that they know minutes wont be given out just cause they are top10 picks. Everything has to earned.

You get accountability. I think it's a good that they know minutes wont be given out just cause they are top10 picks. Everything has to earned.

I agree to some extent. They have to earn those minutes, but at some point, the young guys need to get the minutes and experience of the game so they can get acclimated to the team, and because they're relied on as the "future", it's even more the reason this should come to fruition.

Let's look at the numbers shall we.....Demar's averaging over 4 assists per game over the last 20 games. He averages over 4 rebounds per game on the season. How can you say he's one dimensional? How is that not hating??

I would seriously entertain trading DeRozan along with Bargnani to net back a major piece in this never ending puzzle we call the Raptors. His value is probably pretty high right now & it could be that his learning curve is different from most basketball players (a little longer, sort of like a big man curve).

Usually, by the third year, you can gauge whether the player has all-star potential. In DeRozan's fourth year, he has proven to be the good secondary scoring option (who now has some semblance of play making ability). He has a long shot of being an all-star & that involves incremental improvement for another 3 years.

My problem with him is he allows just as many points as he scores to opposing 2 guards. He also needs a high usage % to get his numbers up. He also struggles against good perimeter defenders & he has not shown the ability to take over a game. Instead, he scores relatively well throughout the course of 3 quarters (steady scorer if you may).

If you trade him, we still have Landry Fields who does a lot of other things well (EXCEPT SCORING). But he can defend 3x better than DeRozan, he rebounds well, he's a smart player, cuts hard and he can somewhat pass the ball. You also have your #8 pick in Terrence Ross who I believe can be a good TWO way player in this league.

I'm still a firm believer that we need capable big men who can anchor your defense and be a threat offensively in order to be successful. It seems logical to me that in order to net a big like that (at least until Valanciunas develops -- which I give him another 2 years minimum), you have to give up a piece like DeRozan.

“I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”