My personal opinion.....I would never spend that kind of money on a dog. All my dogs are rescues or BYB dogs. It isn't that I can't afford it, but that I won't pay those ridiculous prices. The most I spent on a Dog was $800. And he was from a highly respected breeder. In the time I had him I put over $5,000 into him in surgeries. S just because someone buys cheap, doesn't mean they can't afford to care for their dog.

so you fully admit you're part of the problem?

I am the sea witch. I am the tide you fear and the turning you can't deny. I am the sound of the waves running over your bones on the beach, little man, and I am not amused at finding you on my doorstep.
- the Luidaeg, Chimes at Midnight

Oh I didnt know, Please guys do not get upset at me again. I was on a roll of doing good. Sometime I just want to talk.

A little TMI but I dont have many people to talk to. Ever since I moved to maryland, Ive never felt this alone. Because of that I focus only one work and my dogs.

Ive been trying to find another forum. One that is basically just casual, and etc.
If anyone knows of one, let me know and that would be cool. I could talk about dobermans or grooming all day with the right group and that all I was trying to do.

Bold emphasis is mine.

First, let me say, I'm sorry you're feeling so lonely. I really am.

Second...did you ever think maybe you're being offered a gift, here? Whatever your spiritual beliefs are--maybe you are being offered what you NEED, to grow as a person, rather than what you think you want, which, sorry, is a bunch of numbnuts congratulating each other on their misguided, bad decisions, with regards to dog ownership.

Here is where more will be required of you.

Respect yourself enough to require more of yourself, stay and learn.

My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today~Richard Adams

"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self." ―Cyril Connolly

He was purchased from a BYB as a pup obviously. Someone either got over the fact that he was growing and no longer a cute puppy or thought he was gonna be a cool huge scary guard dog. So he was tied out to their front porch. A co-worker's wife passed by the house on a daily basis. After she noticed there was a dog there, she saw the dog every day get skinnier and lose more hair. She contacted authorities and they said they could do nothing about it. The 'owners' then dumped him there and moved. This next part is illegal but here it goes: the co-workers wife could not stand to see the dog like that so on her back from work she pulled over and took him off of the front porch. He was ~40-50 lbs (now close to 100), almost completely hairless, and his ears were so inflamed that they didn't lay down. She took him to the vet, gave him food every day, and gave him a warm house to live in.

For the first year or so, it was ok. The husband was never a fan of dogs but told the wife "You can keep him until he's healthy then you need to sell him". After about a year, the husband pretty much had it with taking care of an expensive large breed dog. I mean, hell, dogs drool, poop, get hair everywhere and request attention. The husband, (my co-worker), was one piece of ****. I can't even remember how many times he bragged about beating the tar out of Zeus, for everything he did that classified as 'being a dog'. One day he came home to poop everywhere because Zeus had gotten into something. He got beat and thrown outside for a week. If the husband came home and saw hair on the couch, he said he would 'drag him by his scruff to the couch, shove his nose in it and beat him until he cried'. It's not surprise that when the old owner would try to clip his nails, Zeus took full advantage and bit him multiple times. The guy's quote about it was "Lets just say, he knows who the boss is now." One day he got loose. The husband came to work and said 'eh, my dog got out'. another coworker said 'did you go look for him? did you ask the neighbors? Did you post flyers??' Husband responded "Nah, he'll be fine". A few days later a neighbor found him and brought him back to the house.

The husband always made my blood boil the way he talked about the dog, but he was my boss and I felt like I couldn't do anything about it. Finally, he says he's just gonna leave him in the backyard "until he's gone". I told him I'd take him for a bit and see if he works out. I admit, I was intimidated by the Doberman Pinscher breed. I hadn't met any that weren't outside charging their fences like some rabid killing machine, and it didn't help that my parents always said they were mean, scary dogs. Long story short, I obviously realized how ridiculous this was after I met Zeus, and it took about 5 minutes for me to realize that there was no way in hell I'd be giving him back.

Anyways, my dog has been through atleast 4 years of hell due to a BYB and irresponsible owner. Had Zeus's litter of puppies not been sold and instead taken to a rescue or shelter, he would be a completely different dog than he is today.

Asmit, that is so sad, your poor baby. Thankfully you saved him from that hell.

Whats would happen to all the B.Y.B puppies if starting tomorrow, unannounced, everyone stopped going to them? ... I say a lot of puppy deaths, and/or irresponsible people without the means to provide for one would be their only option.( People that should never have a dog and would only get one if it was offered free, like my dad)

I bought both of mines from, i guess, a byb.

Jayda, who i got seven years ago, till this day is still healthy and as of yet knock on wood) hasn't had any health issues at all. Only a minor skin infection that cleared in one week on antibiotics. I did not get to see the mom or father. He told us to meet in the Petsmart parking lot. When he arrived, He had 7 cute little doby puppies inside. I wanted the one with the mohawk on her neck ( Jayda). I knew that meant there was a glinch in here doberman DNA for a ridge to show up on her neck but thats why I chose her. None of the other pups had them. He picked the perfect spot because as soon as i gave him the money, we went inside Petsmart. I paid 350.

Bronson, now 4 months old, he's huge! Already have Jayda size. So far he's healthy. All testings looks good, especially for a blue doberman. The lady I got him from could have easily bred champion dogs, ( even though she says Bronson has champion bloodline, I pay that no mind) She's rich! I mean her house is beautiful and she has 18 acres. Me and my co-worker/friend drove down to get him and they ended up snatching us up to some wine and good conversation. I bought Bronson for $500.

Please share your story, and price you paid if you don't mind.

To the part I bolded, people who should not be getting dogs in the first place are already getting them from BYB'ers. They don't screen homes like reputable breeders and rescues do. People who don't pass the screenings from the reputable people often go to BYB'ers, since they don't care what your situation is, as long as they get their money.

The rest of you post is filled with red flags, things people see these bad breeders do and say all the time to sell their puppies.

All dogs deserve good homes, no matter where they came from. But if people don't buy from puppy mills and backyard breeders, they will stop producing these dogs. I can understand not wanting to pay thousands of dollars for a dog, but if you don't, go to a good rescue. They screen homes, plus odds are it's the same kind of dog you would get from a cheap breeder anyway. But you would be saving a life, and the money you spend would go towards saving more dogs, not making more.

This is a great place to talk about Doberman and dogs. But people here do not support backyard breeders.

When we bought our house in Fall 2008, we were going to be married the following summer, and then get our dog. My dad died in a motorcycle accident that Halloween. The wedding fell apart (the wedding itself, not the relationship) due to paperwork issues. We came home from Cape Hatteras, where we still had to pay for the reception, and I started looking for the Doberman. I wanted a puppy NOW, no excuses, after everything else that had been going on.

I emailed several breeders. I asked about what health testing was done (which I knew enough to ask. I just didn't know what answers to look for. I asked about temperament. I asked about crops.

The first breeder said "all of her dogs have the same temperament." Yeah, no. That breeder said that they test for thyroid, Vwd, and "std", but most other things don't run in Euro lines. Cropping is up to the owners, but she can get them done.

The second breeder didn't have puppies but had an 11 month old black/rust female.

The third breeder had no puppies available, but said we were welcome to come visit and see "the girls". They did OFA, thyroid, Vwd. Refund on spay. Ears taken care of. Females bred to champions. Looking back, this probably would have been the better choice, even though we would have had to wait, and the dogs themselves are not titled.

And number four, the one we went with, Bear Creek, had available puppies. Talked about how the puppies would be Vwd carriers because of the dam. Talked about how the puppies' hips would be guaranteed with feeding of "approved quality" foods (and retain receipts for all food purchases). Ears taken care of. Microchipped.

I know i was not as informed a buyer as I could have been. I wanted a puppy, and now. We still had to wait for Elka to be old enough, but we went and saw the litter. There was also a border collie litter on the ground at the time, though I didn't see any border collies while we were there. The kennels adjacent to the house had Dobermans in them, and a single female Great Dane. We met Elka's dam, who gave the puppies a cursory glance and then leaned against me to be pet, entirely calm. We met Elka's sire, who "smiled" on command, and waved. There was a Schutzhund A-frame in the parking area. We got to pick Elka out of three available females. The first one I picked up tensed as soon as contact was made, so no. The third was yapping and whining her fool little head off, whether being touched or not, so no. Elka was engaged and responsive, and so the breeder microchipped her right there for us and the fiance put down the deposit. We talked about crops. She talked about how great her vet was for cropping. We went home.

After Elka was cropped, we brought her home, on a full registration (we always had plans to spay her). We had pain meds for her, and and an antibiotic? (I don't remember what it was. Everything was labeled and we had instructions at the time). A week after we brought her home, I emailed the breeder with posting questions, which she answered. When the stitches were removed we noticed that Elka's ears were unevenly cropped, and so I emailed about that. The breeder did say that the vet would fix her ears free of charge. I said that wouldn't be necessary (I wasn't putting her through that again), and we haven't heard from her since.

Looking at her web site now, she has four breeds: German Shepherds, Border Collies, Dobermans, and Great Danes. None of the dogs are titled. Many of the studs are imported. Puppies are now sold on limited registrations, or more money for full. The cardio gene test has been done, or so it says on the web site, though none of those dogs' names have come up on the list of dogs tested when I searched).

Pictures of the sire on the site make me sad. The fact that the dam is still being bred makes me sad (I have no idea how many litters she's had at this point). I wish we'd waited, and picked a breeder who did more complete health testing, and whose dogs competed in a venue. Elka's ears don't match (a minimal problem), she's oversized (potential joints problems), and her "lines".....well, in Europe, there are championships and working titles, but once things come stateside, there doesn't seem to be much of a plan for which dogs get bred, just that they do.

Am I happy with Elka? Yes. Her energy is just fine, temperament wise she's mostly steady, occasionally skittery about things, and I made the mistake of not socializing her with other dogs when she came hom. But I worry about her future health, and about all of those other dogs her breeder has produced.

See, I just like stories like that. I felt like my mom saved her, you know. They would've sold her for drugs or something or to a friend that does drugs. I knew people that wanted dogs just to dog fight growing up and I had to threaten them. I took one of their dogs and Spayed her and he didnt want her anymore.

Ugh, this excuse drives me crazy. I know you are trying to close the issue, but I simply must point this out, as this is my biggest dog pet peeve, and I feel that this issue can't be closed, as it has barely begun. Your mother unknowingly rewarded the abuse of that Rottweiler.

1. Mother pays breeder money for dog to "save" it.
2. Breeder uses that money to buy new dogs to mistreat and breed.
3. People buy those dogs to "save" them.
4. Breeder uses that money to buy new dogs to mistreat and breed
5. Vicious circle forever continues..

If you keep buying their dogs, they will keep abusing and breeding. If no one buys from a breeder, the breeder will have no choice but to stop, because they would simply go into debt.

Anyway, my goal is not to personally attack you, but at least now you know that "rescuing" a dog from a BYB encourages the BYB to keep mistreating their animals, and you hopefully won't do it again.

"Whenever I hear somebody talk about a horse being stupid, I figure it's a sure sign that the animal has somehow outfoxed them."
- Tom Dorrance

Ah, my first Doberman! It was January 1993 when I went looking for my first Doberman. There was no real internet - I'd never heard of dog shows and so the local paper was where I went looking for a puppy. The first litter we looked at was a mix of blues and blacks - it was a mobile home set on about 1/2 acre with trash piles of all kinds of things including appliances in the yard. The blue puppies all had scabs on their heads and the mother was running around in the yard and looked to be a good 10-20 pounds underweight. We left there fast - the "breeder" kept calling me for 2 weeks lowering the price but I kept saying "no".

The 2nd litter was in a dog house in the back yard - the mother actually had some obedience titles and they didn't own the father. All they had left was reds and I wanted a black bitch. The breeder told me that the owner of a black bitch from a previous litter had an all black litter and gave me her number. Went to see that litter and there were 4 puppies left out of 11. Two girls - they were in a dog house on a screened porch and they had both parents. I took the shy girl that I had to get by crawling inside the dog house to get. Uncropped of course, but I left her that way. They never asked me any questions - and the price in 1993 was $250.

By age 5, she had wobblers but we kept in under control. She was great with our kids and I loved her every day of her life - she lived to 11... but was an old dog before she turned 6. You could have used her as the demo dog for horrible conformation - it really had an effect on her quality of life.

When she died, I hunted down the "breeder" to tell them.... keep in mind I never heard from them for 11 years. Out of 11 puppies, I was the only one that ever contacted them and they knew that some were kept on chains in yards and that some ended up dumped in shelters (of course they left them there). The father was hit by a car and killed and they didn't breed again - Thank God. They were thinking of getting albinos though.

I cringe to think about the life that the other 10 puppies lived - and within a year of buying her, I knew that I had made a big mistake in supporting a byber. I learned from that breeder what NOT to do and never looked back. I donate to my local Doberman rescue every year now. I don't see an end to the demand for cheap puppies - and I don't see an end of the suffering that both the puppies and those unfortunate bitches & dogs that produced them will endure. Some of them will have good lives, but it does not make up for the many that will suffer. The only answer is to educate people to stop supporting them.... one person at a time.

Yes and I don't care what others think. I don't go around bashing you because you buy ridiculously priced animals and support the overbreeding and population of dogs. Just because your dog costs more money doesn't mean that "breeder" isn't adding to the same problem. Think about it. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

Yes and I don't care what others think. I don't go around bashing you because you buy ridiculously priced animals and support the overbreeding and population of dogs. Just because your dog costs more money doesn't mean that "breeder" isn't adding to the same problem. Think about it. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

No she is the voice of reason standing up for dobermans......ones from reputable breeders, ones in shelters, ones being bred to death chained to a dog house. You, on the other hand, are part of the problem.

Yes and I don't care what others think. I don't go around bashing you because you buy ridiculously priced animals and support the overbreeding and population of dogs. Just because your dog costs more money doesn't mean that "breeder" isn't adding to the same problem. Think about it. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

Sorry but this is one of the most ass-backwards things I have ever read. You are obviously not grasping a simple concept here.

Good breeders do not add to the overpopulation problem. Their puppies don't end up in shelters. Their dogs are not mindlessly churning out puppies to sell to the lowest bidder.

The people contributing to the overpopulation problem are irresponsible people who don't spay/neuter their pets, BYBs and puppy mills who endlessly breed animals and don't give a damn about the puppies they are producing after they have the money in their hand (keep in mind these puppies often are purchased by people who also end up breeding them for money, thereby perpetuating the problem), and people like you who support them.

Here's my story....I was an uninformed idiot that did not know what a byb was. My hubby wanted a dobe and did his "research" by looking at kijiji ads. He found an ad he liked and took me with him to see the pups knowing I did not want any kind of dog let alone a dobe! But that I would fall in love with the pups when I saw them. He got Coco as "his" dog and worked all kinds of shifts so he was never home when she was a pup. I had no idea what to do but I went to puppy class at petsmart and found this forum. I have now done lots of research and love this breed. Coco is 3.5 years old and totally my dog. She's not perfect by any of the standards as she is very oversized, she is a little reactive but I love her like one of my kids and feel so blessed to have her as part of my family.

But I will definitely not do things the same way next time. I will either adopt or buy from a reputable breeder.

Erm, no... Those puppies cost more because more goes into them. Titling, testing, all of those great things you get from a breeder. You get what you pay for with them, no surprises. Ignorant owners are what contribute to the problem.

Edit: Just so I don't sound hypocritical, I was a first time owner who bought from a bad breeder. I will openly admit that I was an ignorant owner.

Here's my story....I was an uninformed idiot that did not know what a byb was. My hubby wanted a dobe and did his "research" by looking at kijiji ads. He found an ad he liked and took me with him to see the pups knowing I did not want any kind of dog let alone a dobe! But that I would fall in love with the pups when I saw them. He got Coco as "his" dog and worked all kinds of shifts so he was never home when she was a pup. I had no idea what to do but I went to puppy class at petsmart and found this forum. I have now done lots of research and love this breed. Coco is 3.5 years old and totally my dog. She's not perfect by any of the standards as she is very oversized, she is a little reactive but I love her like one of my kids and feel so blessed to have her as part of my family.

But I will definitely not do things the same way next time. I will either adopt or buy from a reputable breeder.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Uninformed yes, idiot, not at all you didn't intentionally ignore people who tried to steer you in the right direction

I too was uninformed. My first dobe was from a pet store. Granted he was a great dog, having Toorc now, I see those little differences that make a huge impact on my views of reputable breeding. I will never go back.

Erm, no... Those puppies cost more because more goes into them. Titling, testing, all of those great things you get from a breeder. You get what you pay for with them, no surprises. Ignorant owners are what contribute to the problem.

Edit: Just so I don't sound hypocritical, I was a first time owner who bought from a bad breeder. I will openly admit that I was an ignorant owner.

I was responding to the poster who pretty much said that breeders who cost more contribute to the byb problems

Yes and I don't care what others think. I don't go around bashing you because you buy ridiculously priced animals and support the overbreeding and population of dogs. Just because your dog costs more money doesn't mean that "breeder" isn't adding to the same problem. Think about it. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

Ridiculously over priced... The money that goes into that dog from a good breeder is not even close to a mere $1500.

Think of it this way, you want a nice car, one that will go for quite a while, one that you can use, not have problems with etcetc. The price tag on cars that are decent are cor expensive. But you pay to know you have a good car that will last. You pay a couple of hundred, you know very soonly youl be paying to fix it,

I never understand why people are so rude to why someone would pay $1500 for a dog. Do you not just want the best for yourself and your animal?
Skimping at the start your setting yourself up for a costly future.
I would rather pay someone that is passionate and devoting to my animal that will help me through when im struggling with something with my dog.

My guy is from a reputable breeder and is getting ready to show and he has a pretty good sized zipper on his nose as you can see from my signature photo.

Odin is my 9th dog I have owned and before him have all been rescue and or picked up as a stray.

When I first started looking for a Doberman I was looking online and I had no experience knowing the difference between a reputable breeder versus a byb.

The first kennel I looked at seemed like it was a nice place, it had a website and pictures and the people that I was dealing with were friendly. I put a deposit down but I had to ask for it back because the apartment I got into lied about being able to have a doberman. So I had to wait until our lease was over before I started looking again.

I started looking again and once again found a really nice lady and I went to go see the pups. I too thought that since she was rich and lived in pretty much a mansion that she was a good breeder. The property was amazing, there was a boat and nice cars etc.

I put my deposit down and then I had question, so I hoped in Google and came across this forum. I asked a couple of question and the nice people here helped me realize that I in fact was not purchasing from a reputable breeder. I started emailing the lady basic questions like are they health tested? And after about 3 emails that I sent to her with no response I decided that I was going to ask for my deposit back. Even if I didn't get it back I was willing to cut my losses. So luckily she gave me my money back and I went back to researching with the help of this lovely forum.

After about 2 years of waiting and looking I finally found a reputable breeder, I met the Sire and Dam before the puppies were born. I got to see the Sire in the show ring before the pups were born as well. I visited the pups at 4 weeks. I had test results in hand and was updated on just about everything. The puppies nails were dremeled down once a week and even slept in the breeders bedroom for the first few weeks.

The puppies were already used to all types of people and situations and crate trained before I even brought him home. By the time I brought him home he was happy healthy and very well trained at 10 weeks. I have plenty of support from my breeder. I know that if one day is something happened to myself and my family that he would be taken back by the breeder and taken care of.

People always have something that they are willing to spend money on whether its a 3 thousand computer to 400 dollar purse etc.

I was more than willing to spend 2,000 on my boy with all the care going into raising him and making sure everyone was healthy to raising him in the utmost balanced way.

I almost bought from a byb due to my lack of knowledge, but thanks to this forum they helped educate me and I will forever be thankful that they took the time to due that. The longer you stay here and read and ask questions the more you will learn and get an understanding as to why and get a clearer picture of the difference between byb versus reputable.

Our story. Son locates ad for Doberman puppy in Pennysaver for $800. Puppy docked but not cropped. Tells lady he only has $500 so she sells him puppy. Brings home pup and problems begin immediately. After being home one day Rush is dry heaving early morning hours and very lethargic come morning time. Get him to vet and discover he has Parvo. My son contacts greeder to advise out of concern for his remaining 3 litter mates and gets an attitude. After 5 days in ICU and $1500 later he survives. We then discover he has Vwd and at this time I make the phone call. I had quick lesson in Doberman over 5 days Rush was at vet and learn this is genetic along with other troubling medical issues Dobermans may have. When I begin my phone call with Ruth I advise her that Rush survived and she seems genuinely relieved but when I tell her about his Vwd status she states that we don't care for our dog correctly because he again has "caught" something and she's not going to give us our money back. At this time I had a few choice words for her, all unladylike and told her to stop breeding. She says its her right to do whatever she wants. I agree with her and I tell her Karma will get her because not all of her pups will land in loving homes and she will have to answer to higher authority then me.

Needless to say Rush has had several trips to vet for stomach issues, according to vet due to intestinal Parvo, that has cost our family a lot of money. We love him more then anything but wish my son would have never picked up that PennySaver.

This topic is like the "War on Drugs"
but nobody is going to answer, who are the ppl that are going to buy byb pups or should they just fester away and die at the byb breeders?
Shame on ppl, that believe in supply and demand will solve the answer. That answer is the same thought process to the War on Drugs and has been prooving useless for decades.
Education, Laws and compassionate ppl solve social issues not ppl that turn a blind eye,

Ban me for life, if you will, I rescued Nubis from a BYB (and yes I know better) and I am expressing this, while executing my freedom of speech. If I could have rescued from a Dobe Rescue I would have, but that was not possible at the time.
I might not get the max life epectancy out of him, possibly healthy issues, possibly aggressive/tempermant problems, huge financial losses...etc.. but those are the chances I take in life. But no matter what faith deals me, I know and Nubis knows, he is and will always be treated like a Prince, cuz thats how i roll when it comes to animals, I have no kids and my pets are it. I do not like to be trashed into the same pile as uneducated, cheap and ignorant ppl that buy from a byb. As I said before, and the same as before my last infraction, I DO NOT SUPPORT BYB'ers,,, but some responsible ppl have a right to rescue a dobe from one.

Nubis (Anubis), 3 times a charm.
RIP (Kaiser & Lady)
DISCLAIMER:
My comments are from Lessons Learned and the School of Hard Knocks.
I give you thanks, not because you are right or wrong, but for your participation because without opinions, we will never learn

Puppies that are not purchased typically get dropped off at shelters where they are either adopted out or transferred to a breed specific rescue. A lot of shelters have working relationships with rescues and will notify them when their particular breed comes in.

Puppies that are not purchased typically get dropped off at shelters where they are either adopted out or transferred to a breed specific rescue. A lot of shelters have working relationships with rescues and will notify them when their particular breed comes in.

That might happen in a perfect world but around here there is a cost to. Drop off pets and or feared of being red flagged that does not happen.
They will aalways lower the price and get buyers. The byb guy I purchased from said straight up if he doesn't get buyers he has a few guard companies that will happily take them. That only confirmed to me, that I was at the right place I needed to be.

Nubis (Anubis), 3 times a charm.
RIP (Kaiser & Lady)
DISCLAIMER:
My comments are from Lessons Learned and the School of Hard Knocks.
I give you thanks, not because you are right or wrong, but for your participation because without opinions, we will never learn

That might happen in a perfect world but around here there is a cost to. Drop off pets and or feared of being red flagged that does not happen.
They will aalways lower the price and get buyers. The byb guy I purchased from said straight up if he doesn't get buyers he has a few guard companies that will happily take them. That only confirmed to me, that I was at the right place I needed to be.

No she is the voice of reason standing up for dobermans......ones from reputable breeders, ones in shelters, ones being bred to death chained to a dog house. You, on the other hand, are part of the problem.

You are so wrong. Where do you get this ****? I have 3 dogs from BYBs, all of which have been better and healthier dogs than ones I have spent thousands on. Just because they get a stupid test doesn't mean ****. My BYB dogs came from better environments than did the expensive dogs. These breeders may be I proving the breed, yes I agree. But they Are still adding to the overpopulation of unwanted animals. Clear and simple.

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