Nosuperstition wrote:Jews supposedly were a mostly stubborn nation,hence got kicked out several times from several nations.

And Muslims are not stubborn, then? They just ask infidels to convert, once, and then they go quietly on their way forever more?

Not content with giving up their jewelry, the Carthaginian women cut off their long hair to make ropes and bowstrings, and went out with their oldest children to work at the fortifications, which were to be strengthened to resist the coming attack. Every child old enough to walk, fired by the example of all around him, managed to carry a stone or sod to help in the work of defense.

Now Pheonician language of Carthage closely resembled both Hebrew and Arabic.But they were polytheists.Still they were stubborn and adamant.So it is not just monotheist Jews and Muslims who are stubborn but everyone who feels themselves besieged.To paraphrase pilgrim of the old forum they feel that 'the barbarian enemies are at our gates'.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

Now Pheonician language of Carthage closely resembled both Hebrew and Arabic.But they were polytheists.Still they were stubborn and adamant.So it is not just monotheist Jews and Muslims who are stubborn but everyone who feels themselves besieged.To paraphrase pilgrim of the old forum they feel that 'the barbarian enemies are at our gates'.

I am sure you can recognise the "Tu Quoque" here? Does an attitude become acceptable, or even good, if others display it too? Millions of Indian men use prostitutes. So do millions of Westerners. So does either justify the other?

The city of Carthage was perceived as a major threat to Rome and after the Carthaginian general Hannibal attacked Rome, famously, but ineffectively using elephants, the Romans destroyed the city utterly.

There is a lesson there. Rome had recognised for at least two hundred years prior that Carthage is a threat. There were skirmishes, even demands by senators in Rome (such as Cato the elder) to flatten the place, but nothing much was done... until the limits of patients was reached. Then there was overkill.

Muslims have had similar experiences in the West several times over. Now they are trying the same old thing again, and the result will be the same in the end. The harder the push the stronger the counter-push in the end. Hannibal's experience should teach Muslims that in Europe patience is not always a weakness.

Now Pheonician language of Carthage closely resembled both Hebrew and Arabic.But they were polytheists.Still they were stubborn and adamant.So it is not just monotheist Jews and Muslims who are stubborn but everyone who feels themselves besieged.To paraphrase pilgrim of the old forum they feel that 'the barbarian enemies are at our gates'.

I am sure you can recognise the "Tu Quoque" here? Does an attitude become acceptable, or even good, if others display it too? Millions of Indian men use prostitutes. So do millions of Westerners. So does either justify the other?

The city of Carthage was perceived as a major threat to Rome and after the Carthaginian general Hannibal attacked Rome, famously, but ineffectively using elephants, the Romans destroyed the city utterly.

There is a lesson there. Rome had recognised for at least two hundred years prior that Carthage is a threat. There were skirmishes, even demands by senators in Rome (such as Cato the elder) to flatten the place, but nothing much was done... until the limits of patients was reached. Then there was overkill.

Muslims have had similar experiences in the West several times over. Now they are trying the same old thing again, and the result will be the same in the end. The harder the push the stronger the counter-push in the end. Hannibal's experience should teach Muslims that in Europe patience is not always a weakness.

A little thing to note.Carthage existed long before Rome and it was Rome which was the aggressor in that it began to appropriate what was not theirs in a hereditary sense.However Rome being the enlightener of present day Western societies is glorified and Carthage vilified.The Carthiginian Empire never reached the extent to which Rome spread and they were primarily concerned with trading with native peoples of Europe.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.