‘The Sopranos’ tops WGA list of best-written TV shows ever

Last night, the Writers Guild of America released its list of the 101 best-written TV shows of all time, a delayed follow-up to the WGA’s 2006 list of the best-written films ever.

Like any such list, it is meant to do two things at once: 1)Serve as a historical standard, and 2)Stimulate conversation. And by “conversation,” I mean “outrage and indignation,” because that will further stimulate genuine talk. If everyone looked at the WGA list – both the shows included and their rankings – nodded their heads and said, “Yup, that seems right,” then the list would be forgotten quickly and used only as occasional reference material.

So while “The Sopranos” as the top-ranked show on the list would seem like an obvious choice to some, I know from the reaction to my book(*) that a lot of viewers soured on “The Sopranos” after the finale, and after some of the shows that followed it. I’m sure fans of “The Wire,” “Breaking Bad,” “Mad Men,” etc. are annoyed by that ranking, just as I’m sure “The Simpsons” fans think their show should be much higher than 11th, that fans of ’50s and ’60s TV are unhappy that “The Twilight Zone” is the only pre-1970 series in the top 10, etc.

(*) I bring up the book less because all 12 shows highlighted in it are on this list (as they should be), with “Oz” taking the last spot, than because today is the last day of HitFix’s contest where you could win a signed copy of it.

I can certainly quibble with a lot of the individual rankings, and also with the inclusion of one or two shows – “Homeland” at 48 is much too high, given that I’m not sure a show with one great season and one problematic one should be on the list at all at this point – but on a whole, these are 101 shows for the medium to be proud of. But before I give you the full list, I have a few overall thoughts:

* As noted, “The Twilight Zone” is the only pre-1970 show in the top 10, though “I Love Lucy” and “The Dick Van Dyke Show” are both rightly in the top 15. The composition of the top 10 suggests that the best time in history for TV comedy was the early ’70s (“All in the Family,” “M*A*S*H,” “The Mary Tyler Moore Show”), while the best time for TV drama was around the turn of the century (“The Sopranos,” “The Wire,” “The West Wing”). Sounds about right overall, even if some of the individual placements seem off.

* By including miniseries, variety shows, talk shows, and shows from the UK, the list opens itself up to many more questions of inclusion and exclusion than if it had just stuck to American sitcoms and dramas. Why “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” and “Late Night with David Letterman” but not “The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson”? Why “Band of Brothers” but not “From the Earth to the Moon”? Is “The Prisoner” really only the 90th best-written show ever? (Recency bias also figures into “Downton Abbey” being the highest-ranking Brit show of all time. Even if I filter out my own issues with that series, it’s absurd that it’s higher than “The Prisoner,” “Monty Python’s Flying Circus,” “Fawlty Towers,” “The Office,” etc.)

* A lot of writers pop up on the list multiple times, sometimes with a mix of shows they worked on and ones they created (David Chase for “The Sopranos,” “The Rockford Files” and “Northern Exposure,” Tina Fey for “30 Rock” and “SNL,” to name just two), sometimes as the creator or co-creator of multiple series (Steven Bochco with “Hill Street Blues,” “NYPD Blue” and “L.A. Law,” plus one-time “Hill Street” writer David Milch for “NYPD Blue” and “Deadwood”). One writer who surprisingly only has one show on the list: Norman Lear, with “All in the Family” standing in for his entire ’70s empire.

* WGA vs. Emmy: Emmy winners for best comedy that didn’t make the list: “Ally McBeal,” “My World and Welcome to It” (1970), “The Monkees” (1967), “The Jack Benny Show” (1959 & 1961), “Make Room for Daddy” (1955). Emmy winners for best drama that didn’t make the list: “The Practice” (1998 & 1999), “Picket Fences” (1993 & 1994) – the only David E. Kelley show on the list at all is “L.A. Law,” which he didn’t create but ran for a while – “Cagney & Lacey” (1985 & 1986), “Lou Grant” (1979 & 1980), “Police Story” (1976), “The Waltons” (1973), “Elizabeth R” (1972), “The Senator” (1971), “Marcus Welby, MD” (1970), “NET Playhouse” (1969), “Mission: Impossible” (1967 & 1968), plus a bunch of other anthology series in the late ’50s and early ’60s. (Note: I went with the series awards over the writing awards because writing is for individual episodes, whereas in theory the series awards represent an entire season at least. Among the Emmy writing winners who weren’t on the list and weren’t already mentioned above: “My Name Is Earl,” “The Bernie Mac Show,” “Malcolm in the Middle,” “Ellen,” “Frank’s Place” and “Holocaust.”

Anyway, I’m sure there will be much arguing about what’s on, what’s off, and what should be ranked above what else, so here’s the whole list:

Join The Discussion: Log In With

Modern family being #33 is disgusting. It shouldn’t even be on the list. And no scrubs? What the hell…

By: tz989

06.03.2013 @ 6:52 PM

They didn’t want no Scrubs.

By: BrettPoker

06.03.2013 @ 7:01 PM

ROFLLLL@TZ989

By: HeavyRaines17

06.03.2013 @ 7:09 PM

Scrubs is the show that can’t get no love from them.

By: Rover537

06.03.2013 @ 7:33 PM

Does the fact that it’s actually #34 make you feel any better?

By: GuyLodge

06.03.2013 @ 7:41 PM

Hanging out the passengerrrrrr side.

By: Joyeful

06.03.2013 @ 7:49 PM

Scrubs is a show that thinks its fine, also known as a busta…

By: BrettPoker

06.03.2013 @ 9:50 PM

@ROVER: Good point. Star Trek is more of a “post-modern” family.

By: Hank Scorpio

06.03.2013 @ 10:57 PM

Why so shocked about Modern Family? I was under the assumption that Fizbo (sp?) compiled this list

By: Col Bat Guano

06.04.2013 @ 5:42 AM

34 is about 66 points too high.

By: Robert

06.05.2013 @ 8:27 PM

Am I hallucinating or did The Shield not make this list?

By: Robert

06.05.2013 @ 8:33 PM

Never mind – I see it at 71

By: velocityknown

06.03.2013 @ 6:51 PM

Yeah. The West Wing is well-written, but it’s not better writing than Breaking Bad. Not by a very, very wide margin.

By: BrettPoker

06.03.2013 @ 7:00 PM

[Walter White]You’re goddamn right![/Walter White]

By: KP

06.03.2013 @ 9:12 PM

It depends on whether they average the good with the bad. The first four seasons of TWW should be the number 1 show. The last three seasons probably don’t deserve to be on the list.

That would make Breaking Bad better, but only by a slight margin. TWW had like 88 episodes of insane wit, humanity, pathos.

By: velocityknown

06.03.2013 @ 11:47 PM

However, one could also argue that The West Wing writing hasn’t aged well and that it’s view of government is absurdly idealistic and overly sentimental.

Yes, it’s very witty. But does that make it great? Seasons 1 and 2 were great. 3 and 4, ehhhh, I don’t know. Those still had the “Very Special Episode about Terrorism” and Barlett’s daughter getting kidnapped by terrorists.

In short, Sorkin had no idea what do in a post-9/11 world. And I feel like a lot of the problems with The Newsroom are continuing evidence of that.

By: Conor S.

06.04.2013 @ 11:15 AM

It’s clear that they don’t balance the bad with the good from the fact that ER made the list, and made it quite high too, despite the fact that it spent half of its life being written like a mediocre daytime soap.

By: eddie willers

06.04.2013 @ 3:44 PM

{Walter Brennan]”You gosh-darn tootin’!”{/Walter Brennan]

By: SaveFarris

06.04.2013 @ 5:49 PM

“Season 3… Boy, I don’t know” was when I decided to kick your ###.

#getyourmemesright

By: isaacl

06.05.2013 @ 3:58 AM

Regarding the West Wing and the kidnapping story, the cinematography, editing, set design, and soundtrack are superb for the sequence where scenes from the club are intercut with scenes at the White House, ending with Leo running to tell the President.

By: Knuckles

06.06.2013 @ 5:18 PM

I couldn’t disagree more that the West Wing’s writing hasn’t aged well. It’s still fantastic. I own the entire series on DVD and watch it probably once a year. The immediate post-Sorkin years are weak, but seasons 6 & 7 were very strong.

By: tz989

06.03.2013 @ 6:52 PM

Given that Curb is mostly improvised, doesn’t that make it being on a “best written” list kind of absurd? (I’m not denying that it’s a fine show or put together with great skill, or saying that improvising is easy, but…it’s not really “written” for the most part.)

By: asdf

06.03.2013 @ 10:00 PM

agreed

By: alynch

06.03.2013 @ 10:46 PM

If your definition of writing is dialogue, then sure.

By: HISLOCAL

06.05.2013 @ 3:03 PM

Curb is nothing BUT dialogue. It’s not like it’s on the list for it’s intense car-chase sequences.

By: HitFix User

06.03.2013 @ 6:58 PM

I can’t help but notice that Emergency! is not on the list…

By: Ed G.

06.03.2013 @ 8:28 PM

I think Adam 12 would be ahead of that on the list!

By: Dr. Gross

06.03.2013 @ 6:59 PM

Any show that was knowingly written to leave questions unanswered and plots unfinished is not the best written show of all time.

By: Rover537

06.03.2013 @ 7:34 PM

I think that’s why LOST is #27. (rimshot)

By: Peter

06.03.2013 @ 7:35 PM

Give it the benefit of the doubt, Seasame Street is still running.

By: HISLOCAL

06.05.2013 @ 3:04 PM

I heard a rumor that we’ll never know what made Oscar so grouchy.

By: HistoryofMatt

06.03.2013 @ 6:59 PM

I’d have Friday Night Lights and Battlestar Galactica in the Top-10.

I mean, even subjectively looking at the list, BSG was a much better written show than Friends, Modern Family, Star Trek, Lost, The X-Files, and more.

I don’t know how Dan would feel about No. 1, but I think we all know he disagrees with No. 2. :-)

I would also insist that DS9 is a much better show, written and character-wise, than the mostly boring and staid, overly-Roddenberry-influenced TNG. I hate the “perfected humanity” b.s. of TNG. No internal conflict makes for incredibly boring TV, and it’s just not a sociologically or historically correct depiction of the human condition. Humanity will never reach this ludicrous “ideal.” It’s the imperfect humanity of DS9, and BSG, that resonates, because even through all of our imperfections, we try to be better.

Also… Buffy is way too low. It’s top-20, easy.

By: CCK

06.03.2013 @ 7:02 PM

BSG was well acted, but the writing itself was terrible. After 4 seasons they still couldn’t explain what the Cylon’s plan was (because they never bothered to write one). It was so hit or miss, and the plotting was terrible.

By: smreyno

06.03.2013 @ 7:08 PM

Reply to comment…

By: smreyno

06.03.2013 @ 7:18 PM

BSG’s writing was excellent, but its plotting went off the rails in the fourth season. If the distinction I want to draw makes any sense. You can have individual moments of amazing writing (which BSG in the 4th season definitely had), even if the whole is kind of a mess.

By: HistoryofMatt

06.03.2013 @ 7:42 PM

The Cylon’s “plan” was to make humanity extinct and replace them, thereby teaching their makers, the Final Five, a lesson.

It’s not so much the Cylon’s plan, as Cavil’s plan.

I don’t think the plotting messy, either, in that they always stayed true to what the story was about: faith vs. technology, religion vs. science, human vs. machine, and the most important questions: What is it that separates human from machine? When can a machine become human, or can they at all?

BSG was a triumph in that it wasn’t afraid to ask the hard questions, it wasn’t afraid to make the heroes into “bad guys,” (Tigh’s sending out suicide bombers), and it wasn’t afraid to do what so many Science Fiction shows refuse to do or outright dismiss: discuss religion and the possibility of a higher power, or divine power, in the universe.

BSG would be my personal No. 1. Over Mad Men. Over The Wire. Over everything.

Subjectively though, it does belong in the Top-10. At it’s best, it told the most powerfully human stories in TV history. And even at its worst, it was still entertaining (even the deservedly derided Black Market).

By: Mark

06.03.2013 @ 8:05 PM

This is the ultimate takedown on why the BSG finale was a giant fail:[ideas.4brad.com]

I’d argue the descent happened immediately after the New Caprica arc, with random gasps of quality.

By: HistoryofMatt

06.03.2013 @ 8:41 PM

Mark, that “ultimate takedown” is nothing more than a load of bullshit, based mostly on the incredibly ignorant and myopic ‘God Did It’ complaint.

From the very beginning… THE VERY BEGINNING, Ron Moore and David Eick were honest about the presence of God (or divine force or higher power, if you rather) in BSG.

In Home Part II, the Angel that looks like Six TELLS Baltar that she is an Angel sent by God to see humanity to it’s “end.”

Why is it so hard for these people understand this? It cannot possibly be spelled-out for them any clearer.

Moore never misled anyone. And the idea that “God Did It” is bullshit, because no, the humans and Cylons did it. Together. They broke the cycle of violence of ever 2,000-4,000 years of death, rebirth, creation of AI, war, and death.

What this link is, is nothing more than whining on a large scale from someone with anti-faith bias, or anti-religion bias, who can’t comprehend science fiction that allows for the idea that God, or a divine power, or a higher power, exists in the universe.

Whether you have faith, or have none, are a man of science or a man of God, the idea that in a universe with infinite possibilities, that there is 100% no way God or Gods or higher powers or divine forces do not exist is a fallacy.

Any scientist who isn’t dealing with their own biases will tell you that while God or Gods or higher powers or divine forces in the universe is/are improbable, it/they are not impossible.

I am sick and tired of this particular kind of blind ignorance to this theme which existed in BSG for all four seaons, even three years later.

The show was the show it always was. The REAL problem is, the people who can’t leave room for the idea of a divine power in science fiction (or perhaps in the real world, either), refused to acknowledge what the show was telling them… FROM THE VERY FIRST EPISODE.

It isn’t BSG who is wrong… it is those people.

Open your minds to ALL possibilities. That is the truth of science.

Improbable doesn’t mean impossible.

By: velocityknown

06.03.2013 @ 11:52 PM

It’s very difficult to accuse anyone of being flat out wrong or right with a show like Battlestar Galactica. You clearly have a lot of affection for it, as do I, so you’re more inclined to find things right with it.

I choose to enjoy it in spite of the failings of the finale. Kara’s thread was never properly resolved. ghost/angel/hallucination Gaius and Six were never properly explained either. Now, I can forgive those things because so much of the character work was really well executed, but let’s not sit here and pretend that a lot of the finale’s problems came from Moore et al not telling the story properly (or digging themselves into a mythology hole they couldn’t dig out of).

What I’m saying is, I think you can argue for it being a great show without saying, “Your problems with the finale are a result of you not paying enough attention.”

Even Ronald D Moore should be able to admit that that isn’t the case.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

06.04.2013 @ 12:09 AM

I confess to only having seen the first season of BSG but I found the writing to be really plodding, on the nose and dull.

By: isaacl

06.05.2013 @ 4:04 AM

DS9 certainly had some very powerful episodes, particularly on the extremes required to win a war. I think the writers were more familiar with what they could do with the TNG format than the DS9 format, and this probably made the writing on TNG a bit more even in quality.

By: Nancy

06.03.2013 @ 7:01 PM

No Gilmore Girls on the list? Really?

By: CCK

06.03.2013 @ 7:03 PM

That is where you get into what a joke lists are. The Good Wife is in the top half and they don’t have the Gilmore Girls?

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 9:14 PM

mURPHY bROWN nOT sO mUCH

By: CCK

06.03.2013 @ 7:06 PM

Obviously the type of people who make these lists don’t watch those kinds of shows, but I’d take the writing on Babylon 5 over BSG, The Good Wife, Boardwalk Empire, My So-Called Life, Lost and a handful of other shows too.

By: isaacl

06.05.2013 @ 4:09 AM

The writing in Babylon 5 had its shortcomings at times, but it still seems like a master class at telling the tale of a war–the leadup, the actual campaign, and the aftermath–and crafting a suspenseful story even when the ending is known right at the start.

By: CCK

06.05.2013 @ 4:37 AM

B5 had some of the deepest characterizations you’ve ever seen. Few shows even come close to the arcs that were seen on B5. On most shows characters may grow but they are fundamentially exactly the same people, whereas in B5 G’Kar is the bad guy but becomes a hero and Londo is good guy, gets pulled into evil and redeems himself. It was a thing of beauty. No one does that on BSG

By: isaacl

06.06.2013 @ 1:37 AM

In many ways, the Babylon 5’s story is Londo’s story as tragic hero: starting from his actions during the Earth-Minbari war, destroying the hope for peace, through his hatred of Narns and alliance with the Shadows, his redemption in freeing Narn and participation in the Interstellar Alliance, and the final reckoning, where all of Centauri Prime paid for his crimes. It might be a case of selective memory or lack of knowledge of earlier shows, but it seems to me the series-long arc device really started to spread after Babylon 5.

By: Action_Kate

06.03.2013 @ 7:07 PM

“Including miniseries, variety shows, talk shows, and shows from the UK” and yet somehow “Sherlock” is not on this list?

And SATC above Game of Thrones is just ridiculous.

By: LJA

06.03.2013 @ 8:31 PM

Abso-fuckin-lutely.

By: Hannah Lee

06.04.2013 @ 2:52 AM

Agreed.

By: Brian

06.03.2013 @ 7:07 PM

The Wonder Years is too low. No I’ll Fly Away? Most under-appreciated show of the last 25 years.

By: Andrea in Dallas

06.03.2013 @ 7:34 PM

re: IFA – excellent point … I remember watching in anguish as NBC screwed IFA *and* CBS screwed “Brooklyn Bridge” by constantly rescheduling each without notice, apparently so that when they officially cancelled them, they’d have the excuse of “They just never found an audience.”

As for someone else’s mention of GG – really, there’s no way to still be surprised when they are overlooked yet again. Just Google “Gilmore Girls” and the word “nominated” and see just how utterly they were passed over during many years of excellent work.

By: maryploppins

06.03.2013 @ 7:08 PM

ER is #28!? What the … maybe if it had ended in like 2001 instead of going on for like 7 or 8 more increasingly ridiculous seasons! I’m kinda shocked it’s even on the list, let alone at #28.

By: Brian S

06.03.2013 @ 7:10 PM

How in the hell does “Scrubs” not make this list Martha?

By: Nevadasmith

06.03.2013 @ 7:17 PM

Deadwood & NYPD Blue are Top 10 shows and other than Seinfeld could easily replace any of the other sitcoms on the list

By: Lando

06.03.2013 @ 7:18 PM

I agree with the top 40 for the most part, really hard to go by the 2nd half with so many ties. I feel like the Guild kinda cheated when it came to that.

By: JohnG

06.03.2013 @ 7:19 PM

Intense indignation over my favorite show not being named number 1 on a list I shouldn’t care nearly so much about!

By: Jazzfan360

06.03.2013 @ 7:21 PM

Very pleasantly surprised to see Soap there at all, even if ranked shockingly low. No one ever includes it on these type of lists, and its 35th anniversary passed last year (as did each before it) with no mention anywhere and no salute from the Paley Museum for its legacy. Among other things, there’d be no Arrested Development without it.

Most shocked of all by the placement of The Wonder Years and Roseanne. Wow, how quickly we forget, huh?

I must be in the one percent because I watched every show in 50, 63, 66, and 76 whenever they were on.

By: Another Guest

06.05.2013 @ 6:17 PM

I, Claudius is, IMO, simply the best written AND acted 13 hours of television ever.

By: John G.

06.03.2013 @ 7:37 PM

Downtown Abbey’s inclusion is probably the single silliest thing about this list, especially considering the absence of Brideshead Revisited et all.

By: Carol

06.05.2013 @ 3:49 AM

You are absolutely right!

By: Rover537

06.03.2013 @ 7:38 PM

This list is terrible. Name me one other writing team on this list that could have written “Porcupine Racetrack.”

By: joevlad

06.03.2013 @ 7:39 PM

No “Queer as Folk”? Surprised that “South Park” didn’t make it higher on the list, too…

I wonder what the criteria or scorecards the voters used looked like? At what point do shows simply start to blend in with each other (i.e. all the tie votes) and when does the individual merit of each show start to get blurry as well (as opposed to a simple comparative study)? Just some thoughts.

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 9:35 PM

Queer as Folk was just a juicy soap opera; but it was groundbreaking in it’s blunt in your face depiction of 1990’s gay culture. But not good enough for a top 100 list IMHO.

By: joevlad

06.04.2013 @ 1:10 AM

Soapy, yes. But it did follow several plot lines through five seasons of fairly intricate plot development. I think it was better than most Showtime series have been.

By: tigger500

06.03.2013 @ 7:40 PM

Buffy, Cosby Show and The Wire are FAR too low. This list is horrid.

By: GuyITC

06.03.2013 @ 7:43 PM

I’m not sure how high it should be, but LOST at #27?

What are the criteria anyway? Is it how good the show was at its best? At it’s average?

Obviously LOST is just one example. I took it because of the disparity between best and average. If we are talking best, LOST has to be way higher than #27.

By: Lyle

06.03.2013 @ 7:46 PM

Fans of The Wire annoyed by its ranking should consider The Sopranos is the most financially successful series in the history of cable television. This outstanding commercial success is what recast television into a medium for adults, as much as its interesting stories about interesting characters played by interesting actors. The Sopranos isn’t just a yardstick by which all others can be judged, it’s a 10 foot flag pole!

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

06.04.2013 @ 12:10 AM

What does any of that have to do with how well it was written?

By: Lyle

06.04.2013 @ 6:04 AM

The commercial success of The Sopranos influences the entire culture of creative enterprise. Not since The X-Files had a dramatic tv title generated $2 billion of revenue. Its commercial integrity to be distinct, defy expectations and even genre classification in an age of critical dissonance, directly affects how other dramas are financed, produced and, most importantly, written.

It even affects how shows are marketed and consumed. I produced dozens of trailers for The Sopranos, some of which you can still view at [www.ownanera.com], and the willingness to take risks, be distinct and license great music, inspired new heights for how television dramas are viewed.

That this was inspired by insightful scripts from David Chase is why The Sopranos reigns King.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

06.04.2013 @ 6:10 AM

Yeah, again, I know that it was a very popular show. That doesn’t make it a better written show than others on the list though.

This isn’t a list of the most influential shows of all time, it’s of the best written and I think people are pretty justified in thinking the Sopranos didn’t earn that top spot.

By: Call Me Carlos the Dwarf

06.04.2013 @ 2:18 PM

So, what you’re saying is that, even though The Wire was much better written than The Sopranos, The Sopranos should be at the top of the list of the best written shows of all time because it was more influential?

By: Tim

06.05.2013 @ 5:04 AM

Sopranos is the best written, IMO. Financial success shouldn’t matter. It deserved the win anyway and now I have at least a little (if meaningless) validation when I argue about this topic with my friends.

By: Josh

06.03.2013 @ 7:54 PM

I’d like Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood to be remembered more fondly.

By: smreyno

06.03.2013 @ 10:01 PM

This is a pretty clear example of the recency bias of the list for me, which is my major problem with all of it. “Mr. Rogers” from a writing standpoint was a much tighter and more cohesive product than something like “Sesame Street” (simply due to change-over in the writing staff and years that were clearly sub-par quality to what had come before on the latter), but “Sesame Street” is still in production and “Mr. Rogers” isn’t. There’s a lot of children’s programming (“Pee Wee’s Playhouse” and “Captain Kangeroo” are the two examples that jump out at me after “Mr. Rogers”) that I think should be here ahead of a lot of these shows, but I don’t think the time or institutional memory was employed in the making of it that would’ve been necessary to recognize them. Oh well. It’s an interesting conversation piece, but the harder you look at it, the more flawed it seems.

By: Mark

06.03.2013 @ 8:12 PM

Shows that Belong in the Top 50 but aren’t on the list: Venture Bros., Enlightened, Babylon 5, The Thick of It, Firefly

Shows that don’t belong on the list, at all: Lost, Modern Family, Homeland, 24, Boardwalk Empire.

By: Mark

06.03.2013 @ 8:24 PM

I’d also add Party Down, Community, Parks & Rec to the bottom half of the list.

By: Al

06.03.2013 @ 8:49 PM

Absolutely to Venture Bros Firefly and Parks and Rec

By: GRubi

06.03.2013 @ 8:54 PM

Just because you don’t like a show doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong on the list. Lost, 24, and probably Boardwalk all belong (Modern Family definitely doesn’t and Homeland probably doesn’t). Even if you don’t like those shows, you have to recognize that they are well written and groundbreaking. I personally hate I Love Lucy and Roseanne, but I get why they are on the list.

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 9:38 PM

PARTY DOWN !

By: That Werewolf Guy

06.03.2013 @ 8:14 PM

No VENTURE BROS?

By: Matt W

06.03.2013 @ 8:20 PM

No “Psych”? Not even at #100?

Come on, son!

By: GRubi

06.03.2013 @ 8:55 PM

Oh come on now, is this a real complaint? Psych is pretty much the definition of disposable TV. Not bad, not good, but enjoyable for what it is.

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 9:40 PM

If you get Psych then I get Veronica Mars ( yes grubi disposable enjoyable tv show ).

By: GRubi

06.04.2013 @ 2:07 AM

I’d actually say Veronica Mars is significantly better than Psych and probably belongs somewhere in the 90’s. Still, while I don’t see it as disposable, I can see why some people would.

By: Call Me Carlos the Dwarf

06.04.2013 @ 2:19 PM

@Slam, Veronica Mars is better written than Dexter and the first season is a freaking achievement of plotting.

By: Lee

06.04.2013 @ 4:45 PM

I love “Psych” but I agree that it is a bit fluffy most of the time. And if J.D. and Turk didn’t make the list with “Scrubs,” then I doubt that their doppelgangers Shawn and Gus should. Having said that (“Curb” reference there), I got pulled into “Psych” with “Dual Spires,” the “Twin Peaks” homage, which was brilliantly written. “Psych” at its highest level is an extremely well-written show (the homages and the “Yin/Yang” trilogy), but too many episodes are just disposable for it to rank on this list.

By: Matt W

06.04.2013 @ 8:34 PM

I admit I might have been a tad overhasty in nominating “Psych,” but you can’t say it’s loads better than “Modern Family” which is in the top 40.

As someone said in another post somewhere here, “Community” and “Parks and Rec” deserve their nods. This Community/Parks and Rec/Psych fan nominates all three.

By: GRubi

06.04.2013 @ 11:29 PM

I’d say Parks and Rec definitely belongs on here and Community probably does (to be honest, it wasn’t just Season 4 that was lacking, parts of Season 3 were too). But yeah, Modern Family doesn’t belong anywhere near this list.

By: GRubi

06.04.2013 @ 11:29 PM

I’d say Parks and Rec definitely belongs on here and Community probably does (to be honest, it wasn’t just Season 4 that was lacking, parts of Season 3 were too). But yeah, Modern Family doesn’t belong anywhere near this list.

By: jill adrian

06.03.2013 @ 8:25 PM

While The Sopranos was a well-written ground-breaking show, it kind of fell off in it’s later seasons and had nothing like the kind of satisfying finale of it’s contemporary, Six Feet Under. Considering the solid arcs of Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men and others, The Sopranos probably gets this spot purely because of this pioneer spirit. I wonder if some years from now, when those voting in these kind of things were not weaned on the show, will it still appear in the top 10 at all?

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 10:06 PM

Gotta take exception to your assertion that the Sopranos finale was not satisfying. I thought it was brilliant. What happened to Tony and his family is open to your interpretation. I took it to mean that he got gunned down in that diner, but that doesn’t mean I’m right. A flat-out BRILLIANT extremely satisfying finale.

And the Seinfeld finale is easily the WORST of all-time.

TV Show finales would make a great article, Alan …

By: Mulderism

06.04.2013 @ 12:48 AM

Seinfeld finale was perfect.

By: jill adrian

06.04.2013 @ 4:45 AM

Slam, it’s just that those “open-to-interpretation” endings (which are so prevalent now in “indie” films) sometimes seem like a cop out. BTW I actually interpreted the ending differently to suggest something else. Earlier in that final season, Tony was talking with Bobby(?) and they mentioned that being “whacked” is like just going dark, you never expect it. So in the end, the showrunners “whacked” the AUDIENCE. Pretty darn clever I must admit if seen this way, but less satisfying than some other shows.

By: Slam

06.04.2013 @ 3:33 PM

Seinfeld finale was perfect if you drink rubbing alcohol

By: NJMark

06.04.2013 @ 3:52 PM

When I consider all the “bring back…” comments regarding one character or another for so many shows, I’d have thought Seinfeld’s finale would have been the ultimate wet-dream for fans. They did a “bring back” on nearly everyone!

By: GRubi

06.04.2013 @ 11:36 PM

I actually think The Sopranos finale was great, but still don’t believe it should be #1. The Wire should definitely be above it and its arguable that Breaking Bad and/or Mad Men should be as well, but that will depend on how they end.

As for Six Feet Under, I absolutely love that show, but it is the very definition of inconsistent. Some episodes were flat out brilliant. Others were just terrible. This list placed it at #18 and that sounds about right. I’m inclined to say that that’s a bit too high, but its finale is so damn great that it knocks it up 5 to 10 slots.

And I agree with most everyone that the Seinfeld finale was pretty terrible. Don’t think its the best comedy of all time either. Top ten probably, but not the best. Cheers (my personal fave) and/or All in the Family should be above it.

Jill, that interpretation is just incorrect. Tony was killed, very simple. There are mounds of evidence supporting it.

By: Frank

06.05.2013 @ 6:20 PM

It’s not very simple — which is why people are arguing about it to this day.

I’m happy to see “The Sopranos” at number one, not just because of its daring, but because it was totally unpredictable, purposely messy, rigorously detailed (especially in its characterizations) and because it did two things very few other programs have achieved: it understood how to write women and children.

On the other hand, Deadwood at 32!? What the fucking fuck!

Cocksuckers.

By: Mulderism

06.05.2013 @ 6:42 PM

My problem with that is why. Why would someone shoot Tony?
The war was over and pretty well anyone that had a beef with Tony was dead. None of the other captains should have had a problem with him.

Somebody all of a sudden putting a hit on him seems out of left field. There was nothing leading up to it once the dust had settled on the war with Phil Leotardo.

By: Miles

06.05.2013 @ 6:58 PM

I can’t believe we’re still having this debate, but I’ll entertain it a little bit…

Possible motives for someone to kill Tony? I mean, every day of his life he was screwing someone over, so the possibilities are endless, but let’s go with some specific ones that are supported by the text:

1.) The war was technically over, but not all of the hundreds of soldiers in New York necessarily knew this. Remember, a missed phone call got Bobby whacked in the train store.

2.) It’s one thing to whack a boss like Phil, but Walden did it in front of Phil’s wife and then his head got run over. Not Jersey’s fault that it went so gruesome, but that kind of thing could really make people want revenge.

3.) Patsy Parisi, who already pulled a gun on Tony once without him ever realizing it, is now in a tough situation. Yeah, his son is engaged to Meadow, but the Jasons just got busted for drugs and he’s clearly agitated and nervous when Tony brings it up that day. Turns out, the other Jason’s dad is ratting out Tony. At this point, Patsy is in danger for his own life. Remember that already Tony has killed his twin brother. Also notice how much Patsy’s wife scopes out Carmela’s stuff jealously. With Vito out, Patsy stands the most to gain with a dead Tony, and that was BEFORE he had reason to believe Tony might want hime gone.

By: GRubi

06.05.2013 @ 7:11 PM

I can’t believe people actually think there is an actual answer to the question “Was Tony killed in the final scene?” There is no answer. Chase intentionally left it ambiguous and open to interpretation. While people like Miles are SURE that Tony is dead, there are also people who are SURE he is alive (not to mention the people that are SURE he is in jail or witness protection). If Chase wanted the answer to be out there, it would be.

By: Miles

06.05.2013 @ 7:20 PM

There is a ton more source material than the few motives I just posted that point to him being dead. The only thing ambiguous about it is why he was killed, not whether he was or wasn’t. Like everyone else, I’ll just kindly suggest you read that Master of Sopranos blog because, although it does get a little overzealous and reachy after a certain point, it clearly lays out how Chase made it painfully obvious that Tony was shot. At this point I feel like the deniers are like the global warming skeptics of TV analysis. They just plug their ears and say “lalala ambiguous”. The ending is only ambiguous if the only Sopranos scene you’ve ever watched is the final one.

By: GRubi

06.05.2013 @ 7:25 PM

Yes, it is “painfully obvious” that Tony was shot. That’s why so many people disagree with you (sarcasm).

To be clear, I’m not even saying that I, personally disagree with you. I’m not sure if he was or not killed, but if you forced me to choose right now, I actually would most likely say that he’s dead. But for you to say that there is only one correct interpretation is not only wrong, but extremely narrow-minded.

By: Miles

06.05.2013 @ 7:32 PM

Just because you have an opinion doesn’t make it valid. There is no source material suggesting that he’s alive besides the fact that you don’t see his brains splattered all over the onion rings. There is more source material suggesting he’s dead than I could probably even fit in HitFix’s comment system right now. Again, I’m not trying to belittle you, but saying that an opinion should be backed up by the text. David Chase was a control freak, there were no throwaway lines or accidents in that script or set design or the events leading up to it.

By: Slam

06.05.2013 @ 7:50 PM

David Chase won’t say what happened to Tony. He SAID it’s unanswered. Pretty funny that fans are still arguing it.

Is that a “cop-out” ? I say NO, I say it’s awesome.

By: GRubi

06.05.2013 @ 7:52 PM

“Just because you have an opinion doesn’t make it valid.”

That quote is the fundamental difference between you and I. Every opinion is valid. That is what makes it an opinion. You are treating “Tony is dead” as a fact. And before you respond, I already know what you are going to say, which is “It is a fact.” However, it has not been definitively proven. In fact, it probably never will be since the only way to do so is to have Chase confirm it. To compare it to another show, look at St. Elsewhere. That show clearly stated to the audience that everything that had happened was “in a snow globe” and was in the autistic kid’s head. The Sopranos does not do this.

Just because there is more evidence for one side does not make it true. That said, even if there is a ton of evidence saying that he’s dead, there is still plenty saying he’s not. Just by googling it, I was able to find five or six articles on the first 2 pages supporting the Tony Soprano is alive theory.

However, the more I think about it and read about it, the more I personally believe that he is dead and therefore think you are right. But once again, that doesn’t negate another person’s opinion. There is some support that Tony is alive and well and there is even stronger support that Tony wasn’t shot in the diner, but was in fact pinched and is now in jail.

By: GRubi

06.05.2013 @ 7:53 PM

@Slam – Unlike Miles, I’m not arguing for a specific ending. I’m arguing that there isn’t just one “right” interpretation. So I agree with you.

By: Jonas.Left

06.03.2013 @ 8:33 PM

Of the nineties Star Trek series, it seems like Deep Space Nine should have been on this list instead of Next Generation especially if you judge them by the standards of modern televison drama. DS9 adopted a level of serialization that is taken for granted now, culminating in an epic multi-season storyline that paid off elements from the show’s entire run. It explored its themes in a nuanced way that allowed for stories to subtly unfold their meaning in ways that often surpised. It depicted morally complex characters, from heroes depicted with shades of grey to villains who nevertheless had humanity, and allowed those characters to develop new dimensions as the series progressed, including minor supporting characters that eventually had richer arcs than major players on Next Generation. And a lot of episodes were unabashedly character based stories where Next Gen often felt the need to undercut such stories with a random space anomoly. I think the ambition and successes of DS9 outclasses the better known Next Generation in every way.

By: HistoryofMatt

06.03.2013 @ 8:52 PM

Yes! Yes! 1000 times, YES!!!

DS9 offers a picture of humanity which is honest and true.

TNG’s humanity is not real. It’s almost like a version of the uncanny valley. I look at Picard’s crew, and they never fight, they never disagree, they need conflict to come from without (Q, the Borg, Ensign Ro, who is then “assimilated” by the Enterprise crew, etc), and they don’t offer those of us watching any recognizable human traits that reflect the true, fallible nature of humanity.

Benjamin Sisko is a real human being.

Jean Luc Picard is more an artificial construct than Data ever was.

By: Jonas.Left

06.03.2013 @ 10:09 PM

No Star Trek series had a better overall cast than DS9. So many great characters and performances. Next Gen had a lot of bodies, but so few of them really made an impression. I love the fact that Nog started as an alien Dennis the Menace and was built up into a character that could be the center of one of Trek’s most emotional stories (It’s Only a Paper Moon). There was one episode that totally subverted the “red shirt” cliché by introducing a crew member, mortally wounding him, and then spending much of the episode getting to know him so that the audience cared about him as much as any of the main crew before he died. On Next Gen things seemed abstract, but on DS9 they felt human.

I like Patrick Stewart and his performance, but Avery Brooks had so much more to play it’s almost unfair to compare Picard to Sisko. Plus, Sisko was just cool. Riker wishes his beard made him look as cool as Sisko did when he got his goatee.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

06.04.2013 @ 12:13 AM

Nah. I think that DS9 took an interesting step forward in trying to serialize the concept but for just flat-out make you think sort of science-y fiction there’s nothing they did that really approached the level that Next Gen hit over and over again.

By: Jonas.Left

06.04.2013 @ 1:51 AM

Next Gen definitely had strong episodes, but it was really hit and miss. I also like how DS9 fulfilled the idea of alien cultures in Star Trek. Because so much of the series was centered around conflicts and relationships between several key races the show was able to explore each of them so that the superficial notion of good and bad aliens was replaced with a more sophisticated take on how different cultures percieve each other. Years before BSG was exploring the issues of terrorism DS9 was doing it to brilliant effect with stories that tested the morality of it’s characters and presented them with truly difficult choices and decisions to make. The show examined themes ranging from spiritual to scientific to personal to racial to political and without being heavy handed or obvious. And the character work really can’t be emphasized enough. DS9 had a sprawling cast of regular and recurring characters and every one of them was a different person from who they were when the series began. Next Gen usually reset the status quo for the main crew at the end of it’s stories, so it rarely felt like there were real lives being lived with a sense of progression. The format and premise of DS9 allowed it to go deeper than Next Gen could and it’s writers were more willing to go beyond the well-worn tropes of the Star Trek franchise.

By: Dr. Dunkenstein

06.04.2013 @ 3:32 AM

I disagree for the most part. I think DS9 tended to indulge more than any show in the Star Trek’s worst habits towards species essentialism. They built a ton of episodes all around the groundbreaking idea that not everyone from a specific race would be exactly the same which you’d think would sort of be taken for a given in an enlightened future.

Don’t get me wrong, I liked DS9 but they never did anything on the level of Inner Light, Yesterday’s Enterprise or Cause and Effect.

By: isaacl

06.05.2013 @ 4:20 AM

“The Siege of AR-558” and “In the Pale Moonlight” are two DS9 episodes that I believe stand up well against any other Trek episodes.

Though Sisko did get lots of good, meaty scenes, the slightly stilted, theatrical speech pattern used by Brooks undercuts some of the realism of the show. Nonetheless, his character arcs, particularly his relationship with his son Jake (which is the best-handled parent-child relationship in all of Trek) were quite well done.

By: filaphresh

06.06.2013 @ 3:52 AM

I’m late to the party- I only read the article after I heard the podcast about it. I oddly agree with both sides. DS9 is clearly better in terms of characterization. The only two really interesting and consistent characters in the series are Data and Picard, and Picard is interesting only because Patrick Stewart is probably the best actor in all of Star Trek. Put a lesser in for Picard and all you have is a Michael-Brady-like flawless father figure. I like most of the rest of the cast, but that’s likeable actors, not great writing most of the time. DS9 had much more developed, consistent, and interesting characters.
But as Dr. Dunkenstein says TNG did much better science fiction as science fiction than DS9. If you replace the Founder’s shape-shifting with conventional spies/sleeper cells, 95% of the stories in DS9 could happen in any modern war. The kind of really out there classic sci fi stories are much more common on TNG(to Dr. D’s list of TNG episodes, I’d add The Measure of a Man, and in fact most Data-centric episodes).
Dr. Dunkenstein is also right, with his “species essentialism” critique. By Season 4, Quark, Odo, and Worf all had island of misfit toy stories. So much of the drama for all three of them was about being rejected from their societies.
So to a certain extent, I’d almost say TNG works better as a sci-fi anthology while DS9 works better as a sci-fi drama. In the end, I’d go with those who rank DS9 ahead, and I’d put both ahead of the original series. (Voyager and Enterprise, of course, would be way off the list)

By: zach

06.03.2013 @ 8:39 PM

no Doctor Who?

By: Al

06.03.2013 @ 8:47 PM

Too much thoughts, not enough time…so heres the discrepancies
Gunsmoke should top 25.
Hitchcock should be top 25.
Swap Arrested Development and Mad Men.
Modern Family should be lower.
30 Rock should be lower.
Daily Show shouldn’t be here.
Lost should be much lower, or not even present.

Then again, Twilight Zone coming in third? Well, I guess I really can’t complain and just take the list as win.

You only need get to number two to know that the whole thing is a crapshoot.

By: Rob

06.03.2013 @ 9:06 PM

No WKRP in Cincinnati?

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 9:18 PM

I would put Get Smart a lot higher; pretty outrageous slapstick / silly humor for that time; I would say groundbreaking.

Modern Family oh please.

And “high five” to the Scrubs people. LOVE that show.

By: blake

06.03.2013 @ 9:38 PM

It’s hard to put together shows from different eras. But some consideration should have been given to timelessness.

Granted the restrictions from different eras made complex stories and characters more difficult. But still, “All in the Family” is unwatchable now. “I Love Lucy” and “The Dick Van Dyke Show” aren’t at the same level of sophistication as modern shows.

There’s really very little in drama before “Hill Street Blues” that holds up well today — and its convention of ending every episode in bed seems dated.

“The Twilight Zone” is the great exception, and probably should be number 1 for that reason. Will “The Sopranos” still be as watchable 40 years later?

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 10:47 PM

Agree 100% Blake – can’t compare Lost and Dick Van Dyke … and high five about Twilight Zone. Groundbreaking television.

By: Wozzaseds

06.03.2013 @ 10:02 PM

Glad cheers is top 10. It’s still my favourite pilot of all time. Is it wrong that I’m a little sad that little house on the prairie isn’t in the top 100. I still think its great family viewing with young kids.

I’m posting this to anyone who says that The Sopranos doesn’t have a definitive ending. I have a real gripe with people who claim it’s any less excellent because the ending was ‘the cheap way out’ or ‘unfinished’. David Chase said himself that the ending is there if you look for it. So god damn look for it and stop complaining! I’m saying this because it is the most poetic and perfectly executed ending to a TV show that I’ve ever seen.

If you’re sitting here thinking ‘well I’m not certain about the ending’ then read this and consider yourself enlightened:

I understood the ending, but I didn’t find it very satisfying. I don’t think a show has to spell everything out, but that final scene building and building and then blank screen was anti-climactic to say the least. I was one of those people who thought their cable had gone it. I watched it a second time to confirm that that was all there was. I think a lot of people would agree that when The Sopranos was experimental those experiments tended to disappoint, so going out with a weird puzzle that you had to piece together was perhaps not the best ending. I respect that David Chase did something unique and challenging but I just didn’t like it.

By: Mulderism

06.04.2013 @ 12:08 AM

Everyone in the world grabbed their remote at that moment. Brilliant.

I love the Sopranos to (and including) the end. I cannot be so forgiving with L O S T

By: Lyle

06.04.2013 @ 6:20 AM

The ending of The Sopranos is unresolved. That’s all David Chase was trying to say.

“People still ask me what happened. They don’t ask me if Tony is alive or dead. But I know that’s where it’s going. My answer is, if I was going to tell you that I would have told you.” – David Chase, December 12 2012.

By: JaguarforJoan

06.04.2013 @ 1:36 PM

Lyle. You should finish that quote from USA Today from David Chase. Like always, Chase has to do some verbal gymnastics to not say Tony is dead. He has said before that he doesn’t want to have to explain it but it is pretty clear that Tony is dead:

“People still ask me what happened. They don’t ask me if Tony is alive or dead. But I know that’s where it’s going. My answer is, if I was going to tell you that I would have told you.”

“If he didn’t die that night he’s going to die very soon. And the problem is the same: There are the number of minutes in life and they go like this,” says Chase, making a ticking sound. “They’re gone. And you don’t know when it’s coming. That’s all I wanted to say.”

Yet some people will still be in denial (including, sadly, Alan).

By: Tessa

06.03.2013 @ 10:06 PM

So.. Modern Family (a) made the list and (b) Community didn’t?? My emotions…MY EMOTIONS

By: Slam

06.03.2013 @ 10:50 PM

Modern family – She has big boobs, he needs Viagra … his Son in law acts like Michael Scott…those 2 guys over there are GAY …. that’s SOOOO funny.

ZZZzzzzz….

By: Harpua

06.03.2013 @ 10:09 PM

Deadwood #32 ?
Justified #86 ?

Well that’s an abomination !

By: ParkerStevensCantLose

07.09.2013 @ 3:13 AM

Better call Raylan.

By: Mel

06.03.2013 @ 10:13 PM

The Shield tying with ’24’? At #71?! I mean really.

By: Robert

06.05.2013 @ 9:22 PM

I agree – the Shield deserves to be a lot higher in the list. It seems to me that it gets overlooked when people mention great television shows. I thought that season 4, where Anthony Anderson guest starred, was one of the best seasons of television EVER.

By: Ricardo

06.03.2013 @ 10:46 PM

Homeland is better written than Buffy? I’m saying this because they’re 48 and 49. Caught my eye. I’m way past caring about lists.

By: Jonas.Left

06.03.2013 @ 10:47 PM

Only one of Norman Lear’s shows appears on the list, but he did collaborate with Trey Parker and Matt Stone on a couple epsiodes of South Park. I’m not sure if that’s substantial enough to consider him repesented a second time.

I should think every HBO drama series should be in the top 50. Oz at 101 is a joke.

Say, this list would be a good resource for your summer podcast pilots.

By: Wally Walters

06.03.2013 @ 11:09 PM

M*A*S*H needs a footnote: “First five seasons only.” And along those same lines, Married… with Children should appear SOMEWHERE on the list for its first five. Ditto Green Acres.

By: Another Guest

06.05.2013 @ 6:21 PM

So true about M*A*S*H. The last few seasons are unwatchable.

By: LaVerne Samson

06.03.2013 @ 11:15 PM

Shows that began after 2000 should not be included. They have not yet stood the test of time.

By: J

06.04.2013 @ 12:04 AM

I agree, but then the list would fail to engage people who wuv their shows so much now. Let’s see if, in 20 years, people are so eager to blow smoke up the wallowing, uneven, obvious tailpipe of ‘Breaking Bad’ (which I still like, but come on).

Odd that ‘Wiseguy’ is not on here anywhere, given its historical importance to the form. And, as always, I silently scream for ‘Profit’ to slip in somewhere.

By: Call Me Carlos the Dwarf

06.04.2013 @ 2:27 PM

On the other hand, most of them are a hell of a lot better than the grand majority of pre-2000s shows.