Byron Katie – Snake Oil Business?

If you are a fan of Byron Katie’s The Work then you’re not going to like this post. I had to consider whether to write thoughts that have come up this evening about her methods and ways, and after surfing a little, it seems I am not the only one to have these reservations. I somehow got watching the interview with Byron Katie by Iain McNay of Conscious TV and it was very surprising to see the way she was in this interview and what she said, and warning bells went off, hence this post.

Conscious TV Interview of Byron Katie

[youtube]0F-QpYtCW0Q[/youtube]

A great feeling of uncomfortable-ness came up as I watched this interview. Something with this persona Byron Katie was amiss. She did not seem joyful. Or relaxed. But she publicly claims to always be happy, and in fact she said some similar things in the interview too:

– A silent humour is always present for her at all times
– Every thought is of the Beloved

Now, can anyone actually really say the above? To coin her own phrase – Is it true? Can she absolutely know the above statements are true? Err, I don’t think so. The first is not true because in the interview there was not one bit of laughter. So where’s the humour? Obviously so silent so as not to be evident at all. In fact the interview was all terribly serious, and she did not really seem at all at ease. The second is not true because you cannot control your thoughts let alone each and every one. And besides, not every thought NEEDS to be of the Beloved. There is no special spiritual badge given for that. For even that which we consider is not of the Beloved, is still the Beloved. So….surely, at her elevated level of enlightenment she would get that?? Well, maybe not. Note one comment from someone who attended her ‘school’: “…all the moments at The School when she [BK] was visibly upset, impatient, tired, frustrated, and agitated.” (From thread below).

Iain challenged her about whether the awakening she says she leads people to was understanding or Grace of God? Her answer was: ‘It certainly seems that way. I see every mind as the enlightened mind. And I see the mind as very confused….And it has to be completely vigilant, and the only thing I know to break the spell is to get still and identify what mind is believing in the moment and then put it through enquiry. I have worked with, you know, there are millions of people in enquiry and their lives are shifting, and to me that’s waking up to reality.’

That’s bullshit. And justification for her own method. If there was a confused mind, I think it was Katie’s. The mind cannot take you away from mind because you’re using a false mechanism to get to the real. And dissecting every thought is to further the mind-prison. When I listened to Katie, I heard story. A discrepancy between her words and her reality. It felt like she was making it up as she went along. And I heard denial. And insecurity.

Harsh, but true as to what I heard when I listened to this interview.

Good for Iain, he went on to continue to challenge, ‘Does it really work like this?’…But it’s futile to argue with reality – to quote Katie’s own words!!

Another question to Katie by Iain: ‘You sound completely free’ (regarding her account of being at gunpoint). Katie’s reply: ‘What do I know? As far as I know, yes. But what do I know?’ That’s a politicians way of saying Yes. Story….Identity….

She also seemed to struggle to find words to answer other questions, and again, simply ignored some or even seemed to answer a different question than was asked. She mentioned her Work a lot. She seemed to have an agenda. I wanted to hear about her ‘enlightenment’, her insights and so on, not about what she was selling…In the last section she even promoted her own website – now, most interviewees would not be so aggressive.

Talking of being aggressive, here is her marketing machine – suggestions for volunteers (yep, unpaid helpers). Is there anything she hasn’t thought of?

“Chats/Forums/Discussion Boards: If you participate in online chat groups and discussion boards where you share your personal experiences of life, you may want to write about how The Work has made a difference in your life and let people know about our site and Katie’s products so they can find out for themselves if The Work would be helpful to them. People typically enjoy hearing about the things you find useful in your life.”

[www.thework.com]

Many of you have told us how much The Work has helped you and have asked how you can help The Work. We love that you’d like to share The Work with others, so we have compiled a list of ideas for you. We trust that you will find your own helpful and creative ways to share The Work with as many people as possible that feel right to you – and thank you for that.

Financial donations: One of the most direct ways to help keep The Work moving is to make a financial contribution to The Work Foundation. Make a secure online donation right now via our online store.

If you would like to send a check, please mail it to:
The Work Foundation
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX

Volunteer your services: We often need volunteers to assist at events with Katie throughout the world.

Sharing The Work with others: One of the most effective ways to spread the word is to share The Work with others in as many creative ways as possible. Here are some of the possibilities that we came up with:

Work Events: In communities around the world people are hosting local Inquiry Circles and other Work events. Please visit the Institute for the Work Community Center and check the “Bulletins” on the Discussion Forums page to view upcoming Work related events in your area.

Public Access TV Stations: Most communities have local public access channels where community members can suggest programming ideas. You could supply the station with Katie’s DVDs or videos to put on their program schedule. Look in your local phone book or on the web to find the contact information for your local public access TV station.

Local Radio: Many communities also have public radio stations that often air community-interest programs. You could offer your favorite Katie CDs for on-air play during a variety of different programs (e.g. health and wellness, spirituality, peace, self-help, parenting, etc.).

Book Reviews: We invite you to write reviews for Loving What Is and I Need Your Love – Is That True? on sites like Amazon.com and other online book review sites.

Libraries and Bookstores: You can request that your local library and bookstores carry Loving What Is and I Need Your Love – Is That True? and ask whether they would like to list them on their recommended reading lists.

Articles and Interviews: Sharing your personal stories with The Work in the form of articles and interviews is a nice way to share The Work with others. Your experience with The Work is often what interests people the most. If you have used The Work to find freedom from issues like depression, anger, death, fear, body image concerns, sexuality, etc., you may want to write an article and offer it for publication in local and national magazines and journals. You may also want to contact the producers of national TV and radio programs (like The Oprah Winfrey Show) to tell them about The Work in your life and see if they would be interested in having Katie on their program.

Classes/Courses: If you are an educator, consider adding Loving What Is and/or I Need Your Love – Is That True? to your list of required reading texts. Loving What Is and I Need Your Love – Is That True? may be especially of interest in courses that deal with mediation, conflict resolution, human development, brain research, mind-body healing, psychology, social work, mental health, peace and consciousness studies, addiction and recovery courses and so much more.

Web Links: If you have your own web site, consider linking to www.thework.com.

Blogs: Do you write your own blog? If so, you may consider sharing your experience with The Work with your readers and provide a link to www.thework.com.

Chats/Forums/Discussion Boards: If you participate in online chat groups and discussion boards where you share your personal experiences of life, you may want to write about how The Work has made a difference in your life and let people know about our site and Katie’s products so they can find out for themselves if The Work would be helpful to them. People typically enjoy hearing about the things you find useful in your life.

Distribute Flyers: Often you can find flyers for events with Katie at our Events Calendar page (look for the little Flyer icon for each event), here. Feel free to print them out, make copies and distribute them within your community at coffee shops, yoga parlors, bookstores, community centers, etc.

Give Away the Little Book: In our store you can purchase copies of “the little book” – a small 40-page book that walks the reader through The Work. This is a great intro to The Work and is highly affordable to you and is free to nonprofit organizations. We also have an attractive little book stand for those of you who wish to spread The Work at your office space or place of worship.

Give Away CD Samplers: In our store you can purchase copies of two different sampler CDs. Some prefer to hear Katie doing The Work “live” with people and this has proven to be a great way to share The Work with others.

Give a Gift: In our store we have a large variety of products that offer The Work in many forms, including Katie’s books, CDs, DVDs, videos, journals, gift items and, of course, The Parlor.

The Parlor: Giving a gift subscription to The Parlor is a great way for people to understand The Work more deeply and ask Katie any question that comes to them. Each month Katie personally writes The Parlor (typically a 30-40 page document), answering reader’s questions, Working letters, and providing insight into her world. Rich with content and little surprises, The Parlor is a great way to join the The Work family.

Send Someone to a Katie Event: Attending an event with Katie is a very powerful, life-altering experience for many. Giving someone the opportunity to attend an event with Katie, whether it is a simple one-day public event, a weekend intensive or the full 9-day School for The Work, is an amazing way to share the power of The Work with someone you love. To view upcoming events with Katie, check the Events Calendar >>

If you have any other ideas that you’d like to see added to this list, please email info@thework.com

Byron Katie in Israel 2007-I’m afraid of war part 1[youtube]Qwerzf5gIH0[/youtube]

Byron Katie gets people to doubt their feelings and no doubt makes them feel wrong for feeling them. But to say ‘is it true that you feel fear of war?’ to people living in war zones is disrespectful and a bit mad. To say flowers don’t feel fear of war is even madder. Some would say worse. She also uses extremes to nullify fear, eg she suggests there’s nothing to fear if a bomb falls on you because you wouldn’t know it – you’d be dead. When, of course, the fear is injury and suffering and the waiting for that to happen. In another video, she suggested it would be OK if nobody at all turned up to a presentation, when the real fear was that only a few would turn up and he would have to do an embarrassing presentation in front of a tiny audience.

She promotes a view that one should be in a perpetual state of grace. This is dualistic. There is nothing wrong with thoughts and beliefs – that too is Grace. Her methodology is very dubious and from what I can gather it borders on cult-like. The thread above likens her system to Landmark Education, another organisation that has overlaps with cult-ishness. I did Landmark Education courses right up to ILP level and they too have a very aggressive propaganda machine as well as subtle psychological manipulation. Apparently Byron Katie makes people sign a waiver saying they are responsible if they get ill etc. So did Landmark Education. There are other similarities between the two also in the courses themselves.

Byron Katie had some kind of awakening, that’s clear. But she seems to have an agenda around the business she has made out of this awakening. And more importantly, her methodology will NOT lead to awakening in others, since nothing can do this for anyone. Plus her claims of her own state are imho exaggerated.

Her website apparently states:

“The Work is a simple yet powerful process of inquiry that teaches you to identify and question the stressful thoughts that cause all the suffering in the world. It’s a way to understand what’s hurting you, a way to end all your stress and suffering.”

All your suffering?

As I said: exaggeration.

Cost of one of her courses: 9-day “School” – $4,190. Add $750 if you aren’t able to pay the “early rate”.

I found this comment on another forum amusing:
“If she is One with the universe she should have everything already, if ‘having’ still applies. One with the banks, One with the goldmines and One with the national debt. Maybe that’s why gurus take so much cash, they are One with the revenue service.”

All in all I am not berating her personally. She is acting out a role, that’s all. The role of an enlightened teacher who seeks to help others and make big bucks from it. And those that line her pockets are playing the role of the ones who needs helping and have more money than sense in order to try to get this help.

But better to save your money. You don’t need a teacher nor a teaching, and certainly there is no work to do to be realized.

Comments

So who are you all?
Funny how you spent so much time for analysing and criticising her or any other teachers or ‘gurus’. You are actually their followers – spending more time than anyone else on these teachings.
Instead you could pick up anything you like and forget all the rest.
Y’all are just proving their points. Taking life and yourselves sooooo seriously. Why so serious?! lol
Who are you again?
Ease up a bit!
Happy learning 😉

Just discovered your post. What you wrote is old news. Matt Kahn, not Byron Katie, is now guru of the month. What all of them have in common is the promise that we can attain a spiritual status where material circumstances don’t matter — not money, not relationships, not jobs or even war. Their “work” promises to release us from the hard work of being human. If I knew the secret of not being troubled about money (or anything else) again, $4000+ for the School for the Work, or a few $250 sessions with Matt Kahn or Mooji would be a fantastic investment. This is the guru’s business model — assuring you that your stress about money is “just a thought,” not the authentic You. And then you hand your money over. Once you see this , you can’t unsee it, I’m afraid. Good luck to all.

Thanks to all who have posted. Today I read a negative article about The Work which left me cold. However, having read through these posts I now feel much more confident about my views. For me there is going to be a balance of using it to improve my life and make me a person that can serve others better whilst maintaining a healthy understanding that it has limitations. ????

You are welcome…
Yes…it has some usefulness…but is no where near the fix all that Katie promotes it as…It is a somewhat surface technique that can reveal some much deeper work that needs to be done properly… Inexpensive suggestion: reading Healing The Child Within and doing the workbook can help a lot, as can also reading David Richo’s “How To Be An Adult.”
Using ONLY Katie’s technique is an escape into la-la-land…an addiction to a technique that will never allow a person to truly understand their personality and what happened to them and how to navigate through life with others who also carry with them a wounded child. It is not deeply empowering or anywhere near as cathartic as a genuinely deep therapeutic undertanding of oneself and others is.
Glad you can now take it for what it is… a temporary fix, that might lead to understanding some serious work that needs doing via other techniques…

I wouldn’t call this a product, but a technique. Of course not all techniques work for everyone, but it’s also possible the technique was misapplied. Not saying you do this, of course.

I’m also an NLP practitioner, and some NLP techniques work better with some clients, and others work better for other clients. I use The Work primarily with intellectual, logical clients who hyper-focus on their limiting beliefs and can’t see through them.

I think if you subtract Byron Katie out of it and look at the method itself, you’ll see it can be quite helpful.

All it’s trying to do is to have you question your limiting beliefs.

I help people with the law of attraction. And, quite often, they have beliefs that are blocking them from getting what they want.

Maybe they have a belief like, “Money is hard to earn.” “Is that true? How do you react when you believe that thought? Who would you be without that thought?”

It’s very helpful. It shows that very few thoughts are absolutely true on their own. It shows that it’s our thoughts about reality we are reacting to, not reality itself. This is very similar to how NLP works.

Now entering Byron Katie back into the mix, she takes it much further to a promise of total freedom.

Is that realistic? I don’t know. Maybe eventually. I know greater peace can be had. But, I just take the parts I like and leave the rest.

This post is absolutely correct. I am an intellectual and I use the Work for my limiting beliefs, which have kept me stuck in the past. The Work got me through a $5000.00 program at a resort retreat. The program at the retreat was so useless and stupid that I came to my room at night and did the work on beliefs that popped up. Because of the work, I was able to make it through the retreat. I, however, learned at that same time that programs OVERpromise results. ALL OF THEM. BK is not the only one pushing a program promising AMAZING results, you have NLP, Hypnosis, The Work, EFT, Chakra Healings, Cord Cutting, and the list goes on and on.

Once a person finds something to take the HEAT out of the issue (in other words the heavy emotion), they just need to find something to change whatever remains left.

In my view, a person who is NOT intellectual, would do better using EMDR with a therapist or psychodrama. The Work is NOT a good SELF-HELP program for people with deep emotional issues: GRIEF, PTSD, rape trauma, divorce issues, childhoodn neglect, physical abuse, incest, molestation, and so forth. There is a different between beliefs and actual harm. The aforementioned caused real harm that can’t be talked away or thought away or questioned away. First, you have to deal with the emotions (guilt, blame, shame) and then you can address residual beliefs.

Leila could not post this, so she wrote me directly to post this.(The site may be having some issues right now so apologies in advance if comments are not posting so well, I am getting it fixed, thanks)

Hello Abdullah, hello Anniemayla, hello everyone,

thank you for your inputs.

Language is an amazing tool. It focuses our attention into tiny bits.

One of the most challenging experiences I had with people invested in The Work was to have straightforward answers to my questions or straightforward judgements to my comments. There are infinite possibilities to say something without saying it. And I love clarity.

So dear Abdullah, I would like to understand you well :

I read you say : don’t throw the baby with the bathwater.

Why would you say that when I obviously did not?

I read you say : I’m not saying anything’s wrong with you at all.

Me neither. Yay!

I read you say : Of course not all techniques work for everyone, but it’s also possible the technique was misapplied. Not saying you do this, of course.

Cool, and even if the technique was misapplied, what does that say about the technique? Especially when that technique was used by a person who has been at events, done the helpline, done 1-4-1, done the Round Robin, done teleconferences, has been facilitated by Katie 3 times, and that during the first facilitation by Byron Katie, the facilitation has been stopped by Katie after the 2 first questions, Katie saying : you see where we’re going.

I read you say : it wasn’t in my budget, so I didn’t go. But, I learned everything I needed to through her books and videos.

I am sure you may understand that there are many many many many people who don’t go at her workshops either and they try on their own and they don’t get to a life-changing experience and they read about your life-changing experience and they wish they had it too and they keep on trying and they feel bad and they think they must not apply the technique right and they call then the helpline or you or borrow money to go to her events.

If you are not saying I misused the technique, what would you say happened with me that this technique was not always totally really working for me?

Hello Anniemayla, yes, I see it is not working all the time with everything. And yet you can find many testimonials of how The Work was life-changing in cases of rape, or child abuse, … If it is, I’m all for it. I’m a psychologist. It would be my dream come true. More and more, what I witness is that Reality is not the American Dream. And I’m an intellectual one! Sensitive and Int.

I would like to offer you a joke : you write : This post is absolutely correct. I would ask you : really? (imagine Katie saying so…) can you absolutely know that it’s true? 😉

Let’s recall that we’re talking under a post that asks if Katie is a snake oil businesswoman. More money goes in her pockets every minute than what she can probably spend every minute. Though she asks on Youtube : You need more money, is it true? Note that she usually asks You. Not herself. She even is honest about her not doing The Work in an interview that she gave about spiritual rape (how ironic!) Also on Youtube.

To finish, I would like to offer these lines I wrote yesterday :

Myself, I am not sorry that The Work doesn’t reaaaaaaaaalllllly work for me. I am so excited sometimes I can’t sit still. All these years in a schoolish state of mind, again! after so many years spent in a school, from primary school till college and beyond with a MPhil and a MA/MSc, writing worksheets and thinking, instead of being outside playing and listening to music and being inside having sex and anything, just being, whatever arising being felt and lived. The face of your son with its snots coming down and yet with a ravishing smile, or the anguish in your stomach that you feel living there almost like a warm animal who needs to spend sometime there before to move and that you don’t need to get rid of right away, haaaaaaaaaaaa (relief)…

Hello dear ones. I have noted some phrases of the previous comments that I found amazing.

“simply dismissing one’s feelings to try to escape into la la land over and over is not mature… »
Not mature indeed.

“Transcendents don’t make spectacles of themselves. » No show needed indeed.

People who have done The Work really like to share how it changed their lives. I have known many people who do The Work and now I don’t believe any of them. They can lie to you straight in your face. But they’re innocent of it. Byron Katie’s message of feeling good all the time, of shifting to a wonderful blissful life, of turning your life around, is such an attractive idea for the mind, that most of us WANT to believe that. I wanted to believe that. I have been 9 years with The Work. I have praised it. I have chanted Katie’s glory. In the community of The Work, I believed I had friends. I was even enrolled in the Certification Program. I had read all of Katie’s books. I have listened to many many many interviews. I was really believing that after enough work I’d be free, I’d shift permanently into Grace. Of course all of that takes time, by the time you see it doesn’t really work, that you have shifts, some ups yes, and then downs, and then ups, and then you find yourself screaming again the same way you did when you were 12, you see you have never really changed, time has gone, and you have paid already a lot of bucks.

“But, it did help me.” Yes, sure. It did. And what does not? You see, the thing that is off is the emphasis on it. It did help me to have kids too. Just having kids enlightened me at a level you can’t imagine. How does The Work help you? How do you know it’s what really had an impact on your life? Never forget that first and foremost life helped you, since in your life you get attracted by this idea or that concept and it works or it doesn’t and it works a bit or a lot. That is in the vastitude of so many other things… So let’s not make The Work the new savior. Let’s keep our feet on the ground of reality.

I have spent a lot of time recently engaging in conversations with those who are called certified facilitators of The Work of Byron Katie. I wanted to know how is it that they looked so happy and not me. I have been investigating and investigating and investigating. And the thing is that they really are a propaganda machine. They will share with you only what worked for them, never give you an example of how it doesn’t work and if they do, they will do so in a way that in the end it anyway looks like The Work is more beneficial than not. And in my conversations with these people, many have become angry, judgemental, and I’m not talking of me perceiving them so : they have yelled at me, shut me down, judged me, been super defensive, especially when they were caught in blatant contradiction or when I would reveal things that a few people who have been in the inner circle know : for instance, certified facilitators are to only say positive things about Byron Katie and The Work, they sign an unethical ‘Code of Ethics’ that says so.

I am really sorry to read Ema say what she says about her daughter. I have become suicidal at some point while using The Work because I was sensitive at the part of Byron Katie’s teachings where she wrongs people for feeling bad (!) and because as I said I believed the propaganda and just was reinforced in the idea that something was wrong with me for not getting as good as the others. Just check the profiles of the certified facilitators, their websites : they smile, they share happy stories. One of my favorite is Heike Fischer. She has blocked me on Facebook and was so angry at me, still holding grudges about me having not ‘taken my responsibility’ of validating a session I had with her that she needed to become certified facilitator (very technical stuff, when you want to become certified, you gotta do a lot of administrative stuff…), while on the official website of Byron Katie, she explains how The Work helped her shift her anger. ‘Esxcuuse me?

Something is wrong in Katie’s teachings. I don’t care about 4 questions. If you wanna hammer yourself with them all day long, why not? Many people keep chain smoking or coca-cola drinking or pornography watching. Who am I to tell you what to do with your time? Yet, and even if I have very nice memories of Katie, even if I find her pretty, I love her eyes, I sense her charisma, she made me feel good and have a good laughter many times, still, an influential figure like this has an impact on vulnerable suffering gullible people and sometimes things go west. I am ok to share the nice stuff if the not-so-nice stuff was also officially shared. Since the nice stuff is covered, I’d like to let people know not to believe Katie, like literally. Because if things go west, you can cry a river, it’s gonna be put on you.

It is intriguing that we live in a society that would put responsibility on vulnerable suffering gullible people for believing the lies of spiritual gurus like Katie. And to allow these spiritual gurus to get away with almost anything – when you go to the School of Byron Katie, you sign that you are responsible if you die from doing the School! – to allow these spiritual gurus to have the right to discard themselves from any responsibility by a signature of yours on a piece of paper! Unbelievable! How can you know in advance what you are signing to?

Katie knows how to talk to always be right. It’s like all her ideology serves her first and foremost. The three businesses for instance. Amazingly useful. Who’s business is it how much she charges? Hers. That’s it. You are disqualified if you talk about it, and you’ll be told : no one is forced to do so.

“I once asked Byron Katie on a forum, why she does charge so much for her school event – her reply: “the only thing I have to offer are 4 questions and the turnarounds … The way I see it, that’s pretty honest and accurate … Nobody “forces” or even “manipulates” me to buy something else from her … »

So not true! and very typical! Always back to the false idea : I am 100% responsible for my choices, for what I buy. No way, José. I did go to her School based on her false promises of the end of suffering. Katie’s marketing is misleading, it is exaggerated as you Reena show on your original post (thank you by the way, I don’t agree with everything single thing you say, but I find it so healthy to question Byron Katie. isn’t that what she would want? Question everything? ? )

Often the same justifications are told : as if people in the Work community were studying them? Well, guess, what? In a way, it is true. So many Katiesms are told over and over and over again that if you remain long enough in the community, you will also share the same justifications as to why anything Katie does in the end is great. ….

Like this :

“Now, regarding your original post: I would just do a “Judge Your Neighbor” worksheet, I look what you will find … Because, even that, would just leave you “without thought” … In a state of “I don’t know …” I personally like that state …
And, I feel the same about your observation regarding Katie on Conscious TV … “Can you really know that that is true …?”

Who’s business is it anyway?

Much Appreciation For Your Post

Frederick »

Typical answer. I could find same phrases being told by many different people belonging to Katie’s world.

So in the end what is really Frederick telling you? In a polite and sort of I-speak-only-for-myself style, he’s just telling you what you say is not true. And that if only you would succumb to doing The Work on all your nonsense, you’ll get to la la land. For the time span your then achieved la la land state will last with that piece of The Work. Soon enough you’ll need another sheet…

In my experience, The Work works. I never went to the school, but I think Byron Katie is fully in her right to charge whatever she wants to charge. Why do you think she isn’t?

It wasn’t in my budget, so I didn’t go. But, I learned everything I needed to through her books and videos.

I’ve been using The Work for probably 5 years now. And, it is the biggest thing that helped me to achieve greater freedom in my life. I have dealt with a lot of limiting beliefs, and The Work helped me to see through those beliefs and experience the freedom on the other side.

No I don’t agree with everything Katie says. But, she is on to something. And, it works.

I appreciate the helpline she has established. Two years ago I was going through somewhat of a personal crisis, that I just couldn’t see the way to get through. I called one of the facilitators, and in just a few minutes I had a huge amount of clarity.

Not all facilitators are created equal. My wife tried another one of the facilitators, and they weren’t very helpful. But it depends on the person.

I use The Work in my own coaching practice from time to time, and have gotten beneficial results from it with my clients. As I said, it works.

I’m sorry it didn’t work for you. But don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

2. What is not clear about the fact that people in suffering would sell their house to feel better and that therefore it’s a matter of decency not to take it yet help them?

What is not clear about the fact that an enlightened being by its very nature does not need any money since it is one with life, anything is welcome, and materiality has no importance when you are are enlightened to who you really are?

Mental health and freedom are not luxuries. They are basics. Hence prices could be basic too.
All the people I personally know who have no problem with how much Katie charges is people who themselves charge.

I’ve read this blog a few times because every time I search for the truth about Byron Katie, this pops up. I don’t know why there aren’t more complaints against this woman. My daughter did ‘The Work’ – her 10 day (maybe shorter?) workshop in Big Sur. I have read about her workshops and it falls directly into the ‘cult’ category. Denying access to the outside world, going on a special diet, preying on those that feel insecure or are looking for something in their lives – I could go on. What I want to say is that Byron Katie ruined my daughter. My daughter is the love of my life – she is my light, my energy, and Byron Katie turned her into a platitude machine and took away her empathy, her light and her love. I am mourning the loss of my daughter and am reaching out for anyone who can help me release my daughter from this nonsense. Her marriage is falling apart because of BK and she has turned her back on her mother and is in denial about her sister’s horrific accident a year ago. Not only do I miss my daughter but I need her back – I need my original daughter who was loving and caring and giving. I am at a loss… If anyone can help, I’m desperate….

I don’t know what BK could have done that could have turned your daughter. I use the work, but I change it to fit what makes feel comfortable. I have never accepted turnarounds that are self-abusive, place me in denial or are harmful. Your daughter is an adult, but the only that that would work better than The Work is psychodrama, but the requirements to be certified are so stringent that there are not a lot of people certified to do it. If your daughter can find some type of psychodrama program she probably would benefit from that.

Hi Ema, I am so sorry to read this about your daughter. Like Leila said in her post, there aren’t many public complaints about this woman, because she makes everyone sign a very elaborate code of ethics, and all kinds of disclaimers and waivers. People are afraid she will come after them with a law suit, and she has done so in the past. I was with Byron Katie for 12 years, and I worked for her in Europe. I helped set up most of the European organisation. If you want, please send me your email address and I will forward you the booklet that I wrote about my time with Byron Katie. Perhaps your daughter will read it and it might help her see things from a different perspective.

Hi Janaki – I would love to hear more – my daughter is such a wonderful person and I had no idea she apparently needed something so severe to make her happy. I can’t talk to her about it because she dismisses everything in the BK manner – it’s so very sad to me. She wasn’t brought up like this and I know the rest of my small family is horrified by the change in her. You can reach me at rock dot critter at yahoo dot com. I look forward to reading your booklet – and thank you!

Hi Janaki – I haven’t heard from you and am hoping you read my response above – including my email address. I had the opportunity to talk with a therapist the other day, she is helping me worth through the anger and when I mentioned Byron Katie, I could see her hackles raise… I asked her what she thought of her and her reply was a curt ‘not much’.

Sorry Ema, no I hadn’t read your response. Working under a bit of a deadline here. I didn’t see your email address. If you send it to me, I will send you my story that you can pass on to your daughter. Also, I would be willing to talk with your daughter directly, should that ever become appropriate. You can contact me through my website, http://www.sacredradio.com

Janaki- I have done The Work for about 12 years also. I recently became very disillusioned by it. I would really like to read your book about your experience with Katie. My email is eskewis1@gmail.com. I live in Seattle and used to do The Work with Celeste Gabriel. Thank you for reaching out. Sincerely, Elizabeth

***WARNING: SPOILERS FOR THE SCHOOL OF THE WORK BELOW, FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT ATTEND, DO NOT READ IF YOU PLAN TO ATTEND THE SCHOOL AND WANT EVERYTHING TO BE A SURPRISE.***

ema,
You know… when my mom tries to argue against something I firmly believe in, I find myself defending it with great fervor. Is it possible that this could be going on between you and your daughter?

When I’m allowed by friends to have my new theories and share those theories with them, over time I notice the holes in my theories as I tell of them. And eventually, I often drop those theories on my own.

Meanwhile I feel like I can sense a great amount of fear in your written words. Perhaps it is time for you to sit still and face your worst possible fears regarding your daughter and The Work. By facing the fear, learn if it is as bad as it presently seems. I find this method to work for me. In fact, I find this method to be the greatest thing that’s worked for me, this and prayer, but that’s me. We likely all have our own combination of things that works for us.

As for The Work, I enjoyed the basics of the books (although I saw a few holes in some of its application–many holes in BK’s videos on her site). I used The Work, along with other tools, for about 2 yrs before I decided to attend the School for the Work. I didn’t find the School all that great. (BTW, BK stated during The School that part of the high cost is used to provide scholarships for others to attend The School. You can look into that if you want to.) I wish I’d known that before agreeing to pay the tuition, but in the end I AGREED TO PAY THE TUITION. And I accept that.

The School is appropriately named. I found it very school like. We were lectured to and had practice sessions with others. Talking was limited. I was scolded, not harshly, for talking during a quiet time. There was an obvious hierarchy. Our methods were corrected by the leaders when they needed improvement. (BK didn’t walk around to guide us, she remained on her chair on stage or in a back room or off site when she wasn’t lecturing.) It was a little cult like, but not in a way that the average person can’t handle. There was a leader; there was a unique shared language; a certain way of thinking, etc… It was no more a cult than Crossfit is a cult. And this one is based on people trying to help themselves and others. That’s not so bad.

I would’t call it a special diet. It was a very healthy, no caffeine, no sugar, low salt meal plan. We were told well in advance that it would be that way. And at least at our location in Ojai, plenty of people ventured out to a shop to buy coffee and treats. In addition, we weren’t confined to our resort. We were ENCOURAGED to participate in everything and told we would not likely pass if we skipped but that didn’t stop some from skipping. I very openly skipped MANY sessions. One saying that is often mentioned by BK is to “live your truth”. Sometimes a situation just doesn’t work for you so what do you do? You go do what does resonate with you. I found the chairs we sat on very uncomfortable and the initial days were a review for those of us who’d been using The Work already, so I left because my truth told me that I didn’t want to be in the lecture during those times. I swam. I left the resort to get fresh unpasteurized CA almonds. Mmmmm. I went out to eat. I did my laundry. I walked throughout the beautiful resort and enjoyed every moment. That’s not so scary now is it? Did I pass? No. Did I care? Nope. I did what was right for me. Would I recommend The School? No, but I would try to be fair and tell people what it was like from my perspective and let them decide if it sounds right for them.

****SPOILERS******
Almost all meals were in silence. This angered me at first as I had hoped to have wonderful conversations during meals. It wasn’t a bad thing at all in the end. It helped to reduce cliques during meal times. People who experience great pressure/anxiety to talk during meals no longer had to worry about this. There was no talking so it didn’t matter who you sat near! (We found other places to chat.) Also, one really pays attention to her food when silent. The School also included a fast that ended up lasting 2 days. There was no warning of this. The participants could have tea and water, but I believe that was it. I happily chose to not participate. I went to the coffee shop for food each day. What did annoy me was that the fast ended during an off-site outing that I also chose not to attend. Food was catered to the participants at the end of this outing. Catered in Santa Monica. No food was offered to those of us who didn’t go off-site. So I paid for a meal that I didn’t know they were going to have, and I definitely didn’t receive. I find that annoying, but for the most part I’m over it. I chose not to go because I didn’t think it was a big deal. Most of the group went to the beach and were encouraged to start conversations with strangers…although technically I think they had to ask to join a conversation with at least one stranger and then sit there silently from that point on. They couldn’t explain to the stranger(s) why they were being silent. I felt it was a ridiculous and contrived exercise. And as a communication major I massage my temples when I think of it. I don’t see how creating an odd situation for an unsuspecting person does any good for the world. Yes, it gives BK students practice in staying calm during awkward situations, but I don’t think we have to involve others in that. My opinion.

BK does get angry. She scolded a leader in front of everyone during an exercise one day. She told the leader to let the guy she was helping do his own work. Then she (I would say “shamed”) her by saying that she was a leader and should know better. I was about 10 ft from the leader and the guy. They weren’t loud or disrupting anyone in my area.

So yeah, BK’s human. She’s so human that I would say she doesn’t have the power to turn your daughter into anything. Your daughter is choosing what she’s doing. She is clearly going through something. Something in The Work is resonating for her. She is determining what is right for her life just like I determined during The School what was right for mine. Let her do this. Let her find her way. And in doing so, perhaps you could find your way as well. Find a light other than your daughter. Find your own energy. Allow her to work through her grief her way and you work through your grief your way. Allow her marriage to do what it will do.

It sounds to me like it’s possible that neither you nor your daughter are the same people that you were before the accident. You may never be the same people again. Take some time to learn about who you are now. Allow yourselves to change as it likely won’t be the last time. (Not all change is bad even if it’s uncomfortable. And changes often lead to still more changes.) Be ready with open arms and a nonjudgmental tone for when your daughter does come in search of you. Welcome her as she is.

So, yeah, The Work has some helpful tools, though I personally believe there are limits to its applications. I think BK knows this as well, but I will try to stay out of her business. 😉 The reason I say this is one of the four questions has already changed in form a bit as practiced at The School (in comparison to how it reads in the books). I question whether pure enlightened thought would need to be altered. But whatever. You get the point. It is not a cure all and BK is not all knowing. The Work is simply one way of looking at life; it’s not something that needs to be feared.

Cry out your grief, find ways to experience joy, and give life some time to normalize again. When you feel that runaway train of fear return, do like James Bond or Captain America or whoever you like and get off it or stop the train. (Pick the visual that works for you!). Prepare methods in advance. I try to do something loving. When I feel loving, I feel no fear. I think about kissing and holding the man I love; I think about the time I cared for my infant niece when she was sick; I think of my first time holding a kitten; and/or I lay my hand on my cheek and remind myself that I am loved by me, and I know I’m doing the best I can. (I may pray and ask for help too.) And I think of things I’m grateful for if my mind has settled down enough to go there. Usually the loving thoughts get me there.

***SPOILER ALERT**** DON’T READ THE FOLLOWING IF YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU’LL EXPERIENCE AT THE SCHOOL OF THE WORK!!!

I wanted to mention two other things. I said previously that I personally wouldn’t recommend The School. That is mostly true. I really think the majority of the “good stuff” can be gained from the books. That said, I walked away from my computer after typing my letter to Ema and the memory of a Gender Circle exercise from The School popped into my mind. I won’t go into details, but this exercise (and that day’s earlier discussions) focused a great deal on issues/fears/misunderstandings between men and women. I found those discussions delightful and insightful. The Circle exercise was really difficult for me, but I will admit that was because I needed it. So because that day was very relevant to me, I would recommend it. I wish that day was a separate workshop. Alright, that should do it. Now I feel satisfied that I’ve been more thorough in my summary of The School.

Loved reading through the comments and your replies~
I had my own awakening…an NDE (near death experience) and a shared death experience (delayed type). I received some knowledge from beyond the veil, as the saying goes… One of the messages… “NO GURUS. ” I am beginning to understand more deeply now that part of what I was told.

About her work…I think there is some bandaid psych help in her ?s, and some lessons in compassion, but you are right on on the dismissing of feelings as thoughts as dangerous… she dismisses pain and grieving…in a review of one of her books, I read that she encourages our not labeling or judging of things that I feel truly qualify as human evil. This is simply not okay for humankind, IMO. We must know what is ethical behavior and what is not and be able to agree on such things… Like child abuse is not okay…she, apparently, literally states that one should not recoil at seeing a mother beat her child. She also states in a recent book that if she came upon old friends who did not know that her mother had died 10 years prior and they asked how her mother was that she would happily say, “She’s great! She died!” Obviously, there is something deeply amiss in her…

Back to dismissing feelings…
Psychologically, there is a need for deep work in most people, to reach true adulthood in helping the wounded inner child release feelings, in a manner that truly heals a person…so that we can release our shadow selves to form mature egos to take responsibility for this planet, and not just check out into thinking it is all just illusion… We are the only voice of life that we know of that can communicate, make decisions and act on them…the ability to look at reality and stop as much pain as possible is sacred…simply dismissing one’s feelings to try to escape into la la land over and over is not mature…it is an addiction of sorts if it is ‘the ONLY trick up your psychological sleeve.’ Again, is it a tool one can use to help in some manner? sure it is…but not enough…if used exclusively as she encourages, it is simply an escape from true deep responsibility to oneself and others and this world we actually DO exist in.

My take on Katie… She is someone who found a way to escape her own personal emotional hell, and stopped growing at that point. She replaced her prior self-described highly unpleasant self with a guru ego-self. Has she helped some people in some way? Yes…Has she hurt some, too, probably fully unintentionally? Yes.

Unfortunately, the fact that she didn’t stop taking money once she became ‘comfortable enough’ is glaring evidence of a non-enlightened soul in my book… She is not the only one to do so, obviously…In her videos, she calls everyone Sweetheart, and tells them “I love you.” I need to call BS on that… If she truly loved them, and everyone as she purports to, she would be highly charitable, and live a simple life…

Sadly, we live in a world where escapism is at an all time high…especially escapism into wealth and fame if it can be accomplished… and many people actually applaud it. Look at the Trump lovers.. She seems to have done it, too, and found a new ‘acceptible addiction to replace the alcoholism she left behind.

Another thing I ‘received’ from the other side… Everything we do here matters beyond this dimension…what we do also matters to all souls not on our dimension (and vice versa)…

I believe fully that we cannot escape our consciences…I assume that, somewhere inside, Katy and all others who seek their fame and fortune as gurus are truly suffering because they know they are greedy, etc….I have compassion for her in that respect, but I sure wish she and others like her would FULLY wake up, and escape their own mind traps…wake to true deep love…because it matters…and that is ‘what is’…equally matters, and growing it matters, living it…Sadly, she has elevated herself materially… she lives in a self-made delusion and sells the snake oil belief that all thought is delusion. Ironic~ That itself is delusional.
We must all remain vigilant and beware of the gurus that are raking in the mulla…
Money is the root of…a lot of ‘evil.’ Evil that is not always obvious.

Gina, I was really uplifted by your comment. I fully agree with your sentiments, full of wisdom.

I agree that BK probably just switched to another type of addiction – “She is someone who found a way to escape her own personal emotional hell, and stopped growing at that point. She replaced her prior self-described highly unpleasant self with a guru ego-self.”

Addictive natures are not so easy even AFTER an awakening which I don’t doubt she had.

We must follow our own guru and the only guru is really GOD – in whatever way one wants to see that. For me that is the Divine Spark that does not need any accolades, money, relationships, fame, fortune, appreciation or anything like that.

And yet it is all part of the Divine….even BK, this convo, and everything else in this incredibly diverse, varied and weird planet we find ourselves on!

Thank you for your reply, Reena~
I am glad that my messages resonated with you.
Thank you for your efforts to help keep us sane as a species… and in touch with the very sacred that we are here to learn from, represent and grow~ God…that from which we came. For some, the true responsibility is too much…and the many addictions too easily succumbed to…
An older boyfriend once told me, when I was 19…”There are very few true adults in the world.” I realized, in time, he was right…and it is up to those able and willing to be adult enough to gently identify those who are not… and perhaps to help them find the courage to come out from their addictions and delusions…

Many people say that The School is the most powerful experience they ever had in their lives. And they are right, because it is. However, not because of the reasons they think. Whenever a large group of people (and a minimum of 10 would already be sufficient), come together and all focus on the same thing, it will generate extremely powerful emotions and experiences. It is called ‘The Workshop High’, also referred to as ‘Group Hypnosis’. But in order to sustain that feeling, they have to work (no pun intended) extremely hard with a lot of discipline and diligence. Otherwise within three days, the feeling will leave and they will start to fall back into their old patterns. The human system is always expelling feelings and emotions, not holding on to them. And it doesn’t matter if they are good or bad feelings. The body isn’t interested in happiness, it is interested in survival. Any strong feeling you have is already on its way out. That is why an orgasm doesn’t last very long. The body can’t handle that much pleasure. So The School tuition was a lot of money for a temporary (mental) orgasm (so to speak)…

Janaki, I concur with all you say! I attended many Landmark Forum courses and it’s the same there – a group euphoria or ‘group hypnosis’ (we are all so gullible!) as you say.

BK’s 4 questions are touted like they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but unfortunately they won’t cater for sufferings happening right NOW. (Yeah I’m being tortured, the pain is too much…how would I be without this thought? err I can’t think right now cos of the pain….).

The BK questions will help people become less unconscious yes. But then there are MANY things that will do that. It’s the whole marketing and sales system behind it that I have an issue with, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. When all is considered human beings need something authentic with no covert agendas! Seems like that is not easy to find in this world. In the end we have to speak out truth, never mind who else – however big they may be – tries to have us be otherwise.

I know this is a super old post, but I just came across it and wanted to comment.

I have used The Work off and on for probably 5 years. I have no vested interest in it. My spirituality now is quite different than most who use The Work, probably. I’m a Muslim, not a Buddhist or Zen practitioner.

But, it did help me. Today, I’ve learned the basic principle behind it and have more or less discarded the method itself. But it’s taught me to not believe in my own thoughts. It’s taught me that my own thoughts are illusory. They point to a reality that doesn’t exist.

I don’t agree with all the premises. She says thoughts are random. they just come from the universe, from nothing and into nothing. I’ve learned for myself through my work with NLP and other techniques that these thoughts largely come from the subconscious mind. They come from our own fears and limiting beliefs. But, all the same, whatever the source, they are illusory.

It helped me to realize that I can disconnect my thoughts from reality. Although, I suggest the Meta Model of NLP does so more deeply than The Work. It, too, points out the flaws in “should” thinking. It, too, attempts to give you back your power over your own mind.

I see where some of your criticisms are coming from. But for myself, it has helped me. It probably honestly saved my marriage, because for the first few years, it was the only thing that kept me reconciled with my wife. I saw that what I was angry about was more about me than it was about her.

Your words are full of wisdom and I found your experience about your marriage moving. That The Work helps people to connect with the space beyond thoughts and let go of the belief in thoughts is a blessing, as is any inspiration that helps us to see these truths.

The issue that is off-putting is the marketing and finance around it. Money is fine – neutral in itself – but I prefer to be in an environment where I know it’s not all about the business. And I am always looking for sensitivity in those at the top, and how they behave when they are off stage.

I once asked Byron Katie on a forum, why she does charge so much for her school event – her reply: “the only thing I have to offer are 4 questions and the turnarounds … The way I see it, that’s pretty honest and accurate … Nobody “forces” or even “manipulates” me to buy something else from her …
I did the nine day school event in June 2002 in New York, and I just felt, before enrolling in it “I have to do this! This is my lifesaver!” But, I never experienced deeper change, except some short sensed glimmer of peace, just to find me back in the same confusion and mess again … I would say that I stayed with The Work for about two years, really dedicated … And, nevertheless, no real shift …

I did engage in some other works, until December 2014, I started studying A Course in Miracles, very diligently, and just finished it a week ago … And, although I dedicated myself daily, for hours, no real shift … Even my health got worse and worse …

Then, last Monday, I suddenly noticed the thought “is it true …?” in my mind showing up, and I got straight back to The Work, filling out “Judge Your Neighbor” worksheets, and the amount of joy and excitement and vitality I’m feeling now, is truly short of awesome …!

Just to my person: almost 37 years ago, I had an accident while mountain climbing, which broke my neck … So, my body is paralyzed from the neck down … Some seven years ago, scars on both of my buttocks started to show up, and so far nothing could truly heal them, which means, I have to pass 24/7 in bed … So, as you can imagine, pretty often I felt about ending “life” … First, out of sheer frustration and inability to keep on living like that … But later on, more as an act of kindness, as an act of respect for myself …

But now, since having found my way back to The Work, I feel my life again for wonder, with a sense of gratitude for having so much time doing The Work, and nevertheless feeling like I am on vacation …

Of course, one week is a very short time … Nevertheless, with no other approach I had managed this kind of shift …

Now, regarding your original post: I would just do a “Judge Your Neighbor” worksheet, I look what you will find … Because, even that, would just leave you “without thought” … In a state of “I don’t know …” I personally like that state …

And, I feel the same about your observation regarding Katie on Conscious TV … “Can you really know that that is true …?”

The interesting thing is that Katie never answered your questions. You asked why she charges so much, and she said, The only thing I have to offer are four questions, etc. But that is no answer to your questions. She was not applying her precious ‘Literal Listening’ that she always preaches.

I am a therapist with a doctorate and 40 years of experience and a minister (United Methodist). Much of her approach is similar to cognitive therapy and Zen practices. There is a metaphysical contradiction in her concept of God and whatever reality happens to be. As others have pointed out, if how things are, for example, is reality=God, then why is she motivated to assist people to escape their confused self-imposed suffering? It’s my impression she is authentic and honest, perhaps too eager to cash in on her success. I believe her when she says she “loved” the prognosis of going increasingly blind, she was being honest. She also says she takes a Tylenol if she has a headache. All belief systems contain internal contradictions: if the Christian God is all loving, why do babies suffer etc. (the theodicy question). I have benefited from reading her books but would not attend a nine day intensive if it was free and next door. Just seems unnecessary and contrary to the simplicity of her approach. All efforts to heal are fraught with problems and some of the worst offenders are licensed mental health professionals. Buyer beware in all cases.

Thank you for your insightful comment Gene. In the end the truth must come from within, no matter how much we look externally – this is my view. What you say about contradictions is food for thought. This world and all the many paths are littered with these. Indeed we are too, as human beings. Though that which is beyond thought and mind-analysis can show us the place where all contradictions are no more. Buyer definitely beware – we must choose very consciously what we are letting ourselves in for.

I think the “Serenity Prayer” is a good check on the excesses of BK’s approach. We should certainly have the courage to change the things we can–and in contradictory way, BK seems to do and say that as well. And attempt to find serenity about the things we can’t change. The whole question of free will and making wrong choices seems to be ignored by BK which is a major problem!

I had just posted on Facebook about a dream I had last night. Then I saw a link to this article. When I saw the words “Landmark Education”, I immediately recalled that being Werner’s grandchild as such. Synchronicity always amazes me. Here is what I wrote of my dream: In my early adulthood, it became an obsession to look at what people were trying to sell me and find the cracks…the flaws. I met a particularly aggressive lady who insisted I should shell out $500 for EST training. The guru was Werner Erhard. Nothing of it appealed to me and I adamantly fended her off. Last night I dreamed that he was still adding new tricks to his gig. He was on stage performing morphological contortions that looked positively excruciating to me. He crawled off the stage and collapsed into his attendants arms as they proceeded to revive him. I was asked to assist. His skin was on fire and my task was to help cool him with a water soaked cloth. I even thought to blow on his skin. He opened his eyes and told me it had been a long time since anybody had provided such comfort. I only did what I was asked and it didn’t cost a penny. After I woke up, I puzzled over why he would choose to suffer like that at all. I guess I’m always wondering that. Celebrities merely produce the illusion that they have an advantage…that they are somehow transcendent. They aren’t. Transcendents don’t make spectacles of themselves.

I realize this post is a bit old but I only just found this site. My daughter did ‘The Work’ with Byron Katie and attended her 10-day workshop. All I can say is that she RUINED my daughter, has turned her into a supercilious person and I miss her terribly. I don’t know what kind of mambo-jumbo BK filled her head with but I miss my amazing daughter…. When I talk to her now, I’m constantly judged – my daughter feels she has superior knowledge and its so sad. She’s lost her beautiful personality and I hope someone brings a lawsuit against this woman and exposes her for what she is – a snake oil salesman…..

I know this is an old post, but I agree with you about BK. I’m actually okay with people making money to help people (I’m a mental health therapist) and I think there are situations where this line of questioning can certainly be helpful, but all in all it’s just a bastardized version of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Furthermore, it is so bastardized in its generality that it can actually be harmful to someone with PTSD or an organic brain disease.

I was also struck by your reaction of feeling uncomfortable while listening to her. I had a similar experience. The word ‘witchcraft’ actually entered into my mind. Which is weird, because I don’t believe even believe in witchcraft in that sense or perceive things like that. At any rate, she definitely isn’t for me.

I actually saw that interview on Consciousness TV and I really found him exceptionally pompous, pedantic and annoying. He struck me as dry, theoretical and desperate to overlay and convey his conceptions on her work, which doesn’t really work because it doesn’t come from any theoretical school but directly from her insight experience. His interest seemed to be only in making it fit to his concepts whereas she is always just trying to do the work. I thought she was fine in the interview but not as happy as when she is doing the work, that seems natural to me. Theory really isn’t all that useful to me …I want to know the ‘how’.

I think that she has had a fundamental insight experience and has come up with a fresh way of offering that insight to others that is actually intensely effective. I have been a practicing Buddhist for 20 years and this has really been an incredibly powerful tool for me to use with meditation and Buddhism to release negative thoughts and stop suffering. Does it work to do that? Yes, yes it does. And that’s all it does. If people want to make her into a cult figure they are going to do that with anyone, anything, any religion. That’s them looking for something to project onto. But when you look at what she actually says, he’s always saying ‘it’s not me, it’s the work’. She’s always saying ‘do the work’ and she she offers everything you need to do the work for free.

I know this conversation is pretty old now, but for anyone who might stumble on it as I have, I’d like to add my own thoughts and experience on Byron Katie and the Work.

I came across BK as part of my Zen practice. I was reading through a book by renowned scholar Stephen Mitchell, who is Katie’s husband, and he briefly discussed her and her Work in a preface. I stored this away at the time, only to return to it years later.

A bit of background. I was raised in a devout, staunch Protestant community. In my late teens, I moved away from that and towards philosophy, then towards the natural sciences. While in Tucson at the University of Arizona, I joined a Zen meditation group, and that became my practice.

I actually went to the Work because I was looking for an “accessible” approach to Zen that I could share with my mom. That is, a book that would not alienate her from its truths right away because she would be put off by the cultural, philosophical, religious, and linguistic trappings of Zen. So I investigated BK’s books. I started with “Loving What Is” and that didn’t go so hot. I was deeply put off by Katie’s seemingly condescending way of referring to everyone as “dear” and “sweetheart” and what appeared to be a callous, borderline cruel, approach to other people’s feelings. As I know now, this is a common first reaction to Byron Katie!

However, I was still intrigued, so I tried another of her books “I Need Your Love – Is That True?” This time the levee broke, so to speak. Something about what Katie was saying in this book (and in all her other publications – she basically says the same thing over and over again, it’s all so stupefyingly simple) clicked for me. It was like hearing the jingle of the keys that would unlock my cell. It took me a while to muster the courage to actually sit down and DO the Work, but once I did, I began to see its unending power in my own self. It truly is a “nothing has changed but nothing is the same” scenario.

At this point, I could start gushing about the Work and the specific changes that doing it has wrought in me. But I want to address the skepticism and suspicion that I have seen regarding BK and the Work. I’m not trying to engage in apologetics or rhetoric here. I want to be honest.

First, I do understand the suspicion. BK and the Work have all the trappings of a self-help marketing empire. Therefore it exudes a disingenuous air from the outset, for most people. The way she dresses, her makeup, the covers of her books, the expensive 9-day resort-style getaways that only card-carrying members of the leisure class have the time or money to attend, the constant referrals to the website and to other books – all of this reeks heavily of, at best, an elaborate gimmick, and at worst a downright scam.

As a counterpoint, I offer this. First, the transformation that BK and the Work promises is a product not of buying books and tapes and attending retreats and seminars. It is an outcome of actually doing the Work with courage and dedication. THAT is not expensive at all. You can download the worksheet for free, you can find one of Katie’s books on Amazon for cheap as hell, and you can start doing the Work immediately, having spent zero to no dollars. I think it would be wonderful to meet Byron Katie, but I have no urge to attend a seminar. That is part of some people’s path. It is not a part of mine. And let me stress that Katie NEVER tries to convince people that the books and seminars are necessary or would even be helpful. She just offers them for those who decide for themselves that that’s what they want.

As for the money aspect, she does ask for it, but she doesn’t withhold her teaching if you don’t give it to her. That is the difference. As I said above, the Work is free. In fact, the Work is not something apart from your own deepest, truest self, so the very idea of having to pay money to acquire it is crazy. However, charging money for media content is actually a widespread and fair practice, and I don’t see why Katie should just give hers away while everyone else gets to charge money. The idea that she’s a spiritual charlatan because her life and work require monetary support is childish and unfair.

Another facet of “Byron Katie skepticism” that I’ve often seen is that people want some kind of quantitative evidence of results from her work (and the Work). Katie herself has called her method a “fast track” to the fulfillment that people are seeking, i.e. to enlightenment. The question is: Does it work? That is a perfectly fair and legitimate question. However, it is also very tricky. In this way, the Work is very similar to Zen. The question “Does it work” is straightforward when it comes to a lawnmower. But for a path to spiritual healing, it just can’t come down to a simple Yes or No. The question arises out of the very confusion it is asking about the possibility of dispelling. Of course, skeptics immediately pounce on this kind of talk and call it evasive and dishonest.

What can I say? My impulse is just to say “If you want to know if BK and the Work are for real, try it out. It isn’t easy, but it isn’t time-consuming or financially costly. Just do it and see for yourself.” I can tell you from my own experience that the Work is such a powerful practice that after doing it only a couple of times, you will very likely notice a sea change in your self. Again, not trying to be evasive, but it’s rather hard to describe. Once you stop insisting that the world should and must be a certain way to make you happy, you’re free to love everything and everyone. There is unbelievable freedom in this. However, it is also quite frightening. Your whole idea of your “self”, your personas and personality, hinges upon the difference between what you like, admire, revere, and accept and what you hate, fear, dismiss, and reject. Once these distinctions start dissolving as a result of doing the Work, you see your precious personality – essentially your identity – start to dissolve with them. The profound discomfort that comes with this can hardly be described or well understood by anyone who has not experienced it. You quite literally don’t know who you are anymore. But I see now that I’m gushing 🙂

Will you get these results from doing the Work? Yes! However, you will only get them if you are honest and dedicated. As with Zen, they will elude you as long as you seek them as a way to shore up your idea of your own importance or specialness. The best way to never get enlightened is to seek enlightenment. This is the hardest truth of all spiritual practice. But once you seek the truth and do the Work, you will awaken. Simply put, the Work cannot possibly fail you because the Work IS you. This, in my opinion, is why it works and other methods tend not to. The Work does not direct you toward an ideal outside yourself and promise to help you make yourself into that (a recipe for failure and more suffering). Instead, it directs you – with laser precision – directly to the heart of yourself and allows you to see what you already are.

Thank you Joel for the detailed post, and at the end of the day we all follow our unique journeys and are drawn to different things at different times. I come more and more to the view that there is no ‘right way’ but only our own ‘subjective way’.

“The work” makes no sense to me and when I hear Katie give explanations they make no sense to me. “The work”, however, works for me. It has not changed my life, but it has changed my soul. I don’t do turnarounds and blame myself and I don’t do turnarounds that make no sense. I use logic with the four questions and one stressful thought moves out of MY way.

I met Byron Katie during a time of very intense pain and depression. I was praying every day for freedom from my pain. No job, terrible fearful thoughts. I am what people would consider to be bi-polar, though that label seems sort of weird to me. It is not a disorder.

Anyways, I met her in Salt Lake City, Utah and she was doing a workshop and I experienced a way out of hell and back to, yes, reality.

This is some time ago, back when The Work was just starting and she was still at her home in Barstow, California. The Work as a “movement” was quite new at that time. It has really grown and spread since then.

I can understand how someone without understanding could watch her speak and think she sounds insane. It may sound insane if you lack awareness. I honestly do not say this to sound mean or judgmental.

What she says makes perfect sense because I understand where she is coming from.

What this woman talks about is what our ego wants to run away from full force, or kill lol.

This woman is the “real deal”. She does not change. There is not a delusion she will wake up from as far as I see it. She already did lol.

Now, I was raised Mormon and am still an active Mormon and love my church. However as you can imagine, after meeting her it was as if life threw one huge curve ball at me I was not expecting.

I still don’t know what to do with her if I am thinking about it from a Mormon perspective lol. I guess one might say I am not your typical Mormon lol.

I have watched her for some time now. I looked it up and this was back somewhere between 1997-99. I really did want to find a charlatan. To see how she is full of it. Well I didn’t find that. There is not much a person can really do to discredit her. Many could agree that they cannot put her in any sort of label or box if they really analyzed her and I have big time lol.

Anyways, whatever helps people, REALLY helps people is a good thing. There is much suffering that occurs in many lives and of course healing is a good thing.

I will tell you with honesty that what she is “doing” is not a snake oil business. All the stuff that surrounds her and how this work goes forward is something she cannot not do.

At one time the little booklets called it “the technology of freedom” which I thought was quite cool, especially since I like electronic technologies in its many forms.

Anyways, meeting Byron Katie helped pull me out of hell. She was an answer to my prayers.

I eventually was asked by her if I would go with her around the world and record audio sessions of the work workshops. I was honored that she offered however after pondering it did not feel right. I have a purpose with the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I was meant to be a part of it and help it move forward. Jesus Christ is love and love is what will heal souls.

I was in hell and she was an answer to my prayers. Of course I am grateful for her.

This world in many ways IS backwards. The world we all seem to most agree on. It is pretty obvious how bassackwards it is to me lol.

We have technological discoveries happening at like an exponential rate it seems and yet our awareness as human beings moves much slower.

Anyways now I feel like I am getting into a big story and its not really fun anymore lol.

Thanks for sharing something of your journey Brian. I’m glad you found help with this method. Who am I to say what one should or should not do? 🙂 It’s just that when money enters into spirituality one has to be careful, it’s the inner intent that counts for everything. And of course my post was written with an outsider’s viewpoint mainly. I’m more circumspect thesedays. Universal laws have a way of righting imbalances so I will leave it to such natural laws. My opinions are quietening down thesedays.

I hear you about money. When I found out about The Work it was by donation only. The way Katie is, she doesn’t really set what it is. She listens to what those say around her and then decides yay or neigh based on how she feels about it, it seems. To become a facilitator of the work is a process that I see is unneeded to help somebody help another. The Work is a free process and can be shared freely.

I think that people now charge to do one on one sessions is not needed, however having her fly to various countries to bring it to people is another thing. Her workshops are powerful.

It is not something I do every day anymore on paper. Much of it I would call internalized I guess.

Anyways thanks for the response 🙂

Life can be odd sometimes. I have been taught about learning, unlearning, creation, un-creation. I just do what works for me the best I know lol. I am certainly no authority on consciousness ha ha!

I’ve been doing “The Work” for two years now.
Its completely turned around my anger.
Its a wonderful technology and its pretty damn flawless.

It’s incredible.
I tried everything.
Her work is nothing short of extraordinary.
And its free by the way.
The Work is Free.
The school is for deeper introspect, and good for her she charges her worth!
Love it. We should all do that. right?
Love her website, her incredible life changing technology and therapy that cuts through years of your own bullshit.
She is just the messenger. Don’t shoot her.
If you really did The Work, you would know.
Do The Work, write down your thoughts about Katie, and turn them around dear.
You are really just beating yourself up.
So have another go at it, it may just break the spell your in,
you know.
The Work is…absolutely free.;)

Dear Reena,
I appreciate the time and research that you have clearly put into this thorough post. However, I am curious to know: have you experienced The Work with any of your own thoughts? (and I don’t mean did you go to the School of The Work, but something much more basic.) My personal experience with doing the Work on my own is that is indeed a very powerful tool that (almost) never fails to uplift and calm me.
Looking forward to your response, Noga

“have you experienced The Work with any of your own thoughts? (and I don’t mean did you go to the School of The Work, but something much more basic.)” —> Yes I tried it some years ago.

“My personal experience with doing the Work on my own is that is indeed a very powerful tool that (almost) never fails to uplift and calm me.” –> It can be beneficial for a while due to our needs, and in a relative sort of way, to have a method that calms and uplifts. Like meditation or some other process.

However, I do not subscribe nor promote any process or method to arrive at some place we deem to be (or are told is) better than where we are now. The question is not ‘does Byron Katie’s method work’ or somesuch question, but rather, since she places so much emphasis on thoughts and mind, ‘what is thought or mind in the wider nature of reality and truth?’. Only yesterday I posted this on my Facebook page:

“What is the nature of the mind?

What is called ‘mind’ is a wondrous power residing in the Self. It causes all thoughts to arise. Apart from thoughts, there is no such thing as mind. Therefore, thought is the nature of mind. Apart from thoughts, there is no independent entity called the world. In deep sleep there are no thoughts, and there is no world. In the states of waking and dream, there are thoughts, and there is a world also. Just as the spider emits the thread (of the web) out of itself and again withdraws it into itself, likewise the mind projects the world out of itself and again resolves it into itself. When the mind comes out of the Self, the world appears. Therefore, when the world appears (to be real), the Self does not appear; and when the Self appears (shines) the world does not appear. When one persistently inquires into the nature of the mind, the mind will end leaving the Self (as the residue). What is referred to as the Self is the Atman. The mind always exists only in dependence on something gross; it cannot stay alone. It is the mind that is called the subtle body or the soul (jiva).” – (Ramana Maharshi)

Thus to focus attention on thoughts and mind keeps one tethered to the relative, the ephemeral, the illusion (the world). Awakening is to go beyond mind and see that this ‘mind’ is like the ocean waves coming and going. I was always much more interested in the ocean itself, for without an insight into the ocean how could you ever know what the waves are? Certainly to calm the thoughts (waves) can lead one to have insights into the ocean. But the trouble is that there is always a ‘me’ – eg ‘MY thoughts are much calmer’ ‘I am uplifted’ – the sense of I or me never leaves as long as we think we are doing something to further our own development. Looking back, from occurrences that took place for ‘me’, no process will guarantee enlightenment (or whatever word you want to use for what you’re trying to get to), it happens spontaneously. In fact, if there is one activity that I would say actually does work, it is sincere communication with That Energy that gives rise to All, including thoughts and the relative, ie prayer. Had Katie’s method worked for me, I would have become spontaneously enlightened there and then. But these are just methods, and one day you get that no process is going to do the trick. Only then is there a chance of going beyond the personal into the Realm of the Inifinite Non-Personal, which is the real nature of everything. Byron Katie’s tool keeps one tethered in ego, like so so many gurus’ ‘teachings’ in non dual and spiritual circles. The seeker has to stop seeking to find.

The Work is ridiculous, childish, fantasy with a miniscule amount of truth sprinkled in but applied inappropriately. Byron Katie is deceived and lost and in no condition to point out the way to anyone. Just another case of the blind leading the blind.

Quite agree Reena she like so many others creates a unrealistic and over simplistic approach usually based on diluted and westernised versions of Eastern philosphy or spiritual practice.
People are so desperate for these quick fix solutions to fix their soul that they pour money into the banks of organisations claiming all you need is this or that concept available in these workshop/dvds/books for the sum of £/$10,000’s per course.
I am personally so anti guru/ organisation based spiritual development having know plenty of people to go down these paths to be dumped when they are nolonger of use.
I have worked with and worked on a number of guru types whom are at best self deluded about their own spiritual advancement and at worse just cynical business people taking advantage of the fears and emotional needs of others. They teach workshops/ write books etc with so little understanding of themselves it is amazing to me how people are taken in.
On so many occasions when these Guru’s organisations are reveal to be simply scams their followers won’t believe the falsehood or the organisation changes itself or its policies to suit. I could name at least a dozen well know teachers I know are compleat fakes that are still churning out their brands of rubbish.

Trefor, your comments are very savvy. The whole ‘I am a teacher’ thing is so the antithesis of spiritual awakening etc that you’d think these teachers wouldn’t set themselves up on such a pedestal having intuited this paradox. But such is human nature.

First, a quick web research showed me that (water) snake oils were indeed used in fact as medicine in certain parts of the planet, like China anda Japan, as treatment for arthritis, bursitis, joint pains and inflammations, due to its high levels of omega-3 fatty acids. So, if someone from Asia is reading your article, s/he may be a bit confused.

As for gurus, masters and corporartions, followers and how they deal with the business of managing thousands of interested people in that particular product is another aspect of how when one is out there selling that product (and she does call it “a product” in The Inner Awakening, if I am not mistaken) say, Christianity, Buddhism or any other “product,” used here in the ample meaning of the word.

From all the systems and teachings I have experienced in over two decades, the most interesting thing about The Work is that is a extremely simple system to investigate your own beliefs, to go to the bottom of it.

I have listened to hundreds of hours of her sessions, and you seemed to be lopsided as the two you have chosen to show your view of the story. Some of the sessions (there are over one hundred available for free at http://www.everypathis.org/) and how she handles peoples trauma — some of the sessions would be distubing to most people on the planet — in which she is just brilliant as she digs through our childish beliefs systems.

You may want to listen to a couple of files (hour-long) from that site called “The Dream of Enlightenment.” And try the work. Grab your arm with one hand, feel it and ask yourself: “Is it true?”. If you really want to ask and answer, you may have a beautiful surprise. You do, however, need a lot of honesty with yourself to try it in your own bathroom.

Forget the woman Byron Katie and the circus but do experiment with the method.
You could be surprised.

Reuben, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I did actually try “The Work” a bit in the past and agree with you that it is a very simple system. Unfortunately imho that’s one of its flaws, it’s way too simple to release deep-seated emotional patterns for eg in the long-term. I have watched quite a few other videos of BK and those that go to see her. Yes, she seems to guide them to some kind of transformation where it seems like a deep shift has occurred, but the test will be a year after seeing her.

You have to also remember that as a so-called guru’s following goes up, the people sitting in front of the audience with this guru will be feeling a great pressure for a transformative shift to occur since they are center of attention on the stage. People are very suggestable in such situations.

You seem to be judging her work by whether it “really works” or “has lasting effects.” I like to see her methods as a bit of compassionate lubrication for deeply ingrained thoughts.

Listening to the hour long sessions on http://www.everypathis.org, one can feel how much uninvestigated assumption goes into how we end up feeling. Often it’s amazing to see my own feelings shift as I realize that my own standard against another is short-sighted and does not allow them to be as human and fallible as I allow myself to be. (The turnarounds are not magical, they are simply asking, how are you holding this other person to a different standard than you allow yourself?)

It’s no different than a therapist…sometimes they are on the mark, sometimes a bit off, bit it is causes a person to feel a bit freer to imagine other perspectives, is that bad? I have been to a number of therapists for family and childhood issues, and some of the therapists were way more terrible than anything BK ever did. And BK does not ask me to believe her, she just says this is how she does it.

I am on the fence in some ways when it comes to being a true victim, but one thing I do not do is judge BK by her often culty-seeming audience, because many people WANT a guru. Guru-seekers end up at her seminars, along with non-guru-seekers. I do not want a guru, so when I watch her, I see her as a help in a hard world, not as THE answer.

There is no ANSWER we’ll ever know, I bet. Does something that helps us see others as more like us really deserve the fear-based worries of whether she is misleading people? CNN and Foxnews and MSNBC do more to mislead people than BK will ever be able to do.

Tony, some great insights in your comment. You are probably right on many counts. Your view of her seems compassionate, whereas mine when I wrote the post somewhat harsh I guess. However when someone makes big claims then big results ought to be forthcoming. Yes, she’s probably a help to many in a hard world, but an expensive help at that. That side of it ($$$) does not sit well for me. But who am I to judge…

I’ve too thought a few of things about Katie’s work, but didn’t spend the time to investigate it myself (other that look over her books, about 5 years ago).

She does seem to have unawakened herself, …to me at least.

I realize she has lots of fans. But that doesn’t actually interest me. I look at the level of attainment (how much did people actually access within during their time with her, her teachings) people are experiencing….and so far….nothing.

No results have ever been listed from her work. so I put it in the self help category. And sometimes….people are needing that more primitive level. I sure did, years ago. I was in Summit for 8 years till it self destructed (good thing too….it was hell to get out of permanently).

I loved the interview on conscious tv. It did appear that she was struggling but in my view she was spacious and at a loss for words to describe the indescribable.
I love Katie and the work has helped our family tremendously especially my teenager. The cost is steep for us but the value ,priceless. I know that she offers scholarship and payment plans to help get to her programs.
I pay for what is valuable and this work was priceless. Im happy that they find so many ways to offer it,I wish I had found it 20 years ago.

I have tried a series of self-help methods and philosophies. It took me a life crisis to have the courage to take a closer look at BK’s Work, which did not attract me in the first place.

Now after some practice, I am finding it a unique tool to explore my thoughts. It allows me to “touch” them, and to practice to distinguish them from the tangible world, the here and now. This is sometimes very hard, because thoughts seem more real and rock-solid in comparison.

I have made surprising discoveries about my underlying everyday beliefs, some of them not so pleasant. It has also allowed me to engage in new social activities, because I know that if negative thoughts and feelings arise, I can “treat” them with the Work, and do this over and over if needed.

I have spent altogether about USD 600. I bought the main books, did an online session with a BK certified counselor as well as a workshop with this person. I was going through a life crisis and it was as useful and not more expensive than other types of counseling.

“While the seeing through of the ‘I’ thought is the first step towards liberation; it does not automatically follow that self realisation leads to liberation in every case. From what jac has seen while travelling in the west in 2009 it seems in western cultures self realisation is taken to be the end of the line; the show is over. To a certain point this is so, yet self realisation is not liberation…there is more. What can change will continue to change against the unmoving background. To this end, the sense of the ‘I’ can again arise and desires may influence action or in some cases the pull towards total annihilation of the wandering mind continues until liberation.

Useful terms to denote the difference can be found in Indian culture; the guru is self realised and the satguru is liberated.

Manifesting as the satguru, the Absolute Seer has nothing to see. No ideas come to mind at all. Action taken is never guided by a concept. There is no sense of needing anything – ever. Liberation is the changeless state with no will, no ideas, no imagination and no doubt.

All traces of ‘I am’ can disappear, leaving no trace of individuality. What remains is consciousness experiencing consciousness. The ‘I am’ can come and go spontaneously as long as the body functions, but it is given no importance. This level of functioning of ‘I am’ is no more than an aid to existence.

The self realised can say ‘I am That’ and the liberated have realised the unreality of ‘I am’.”

tom, Yes, BK is like a therapist, though one who has people question their own feelings. Feelings hold a certain charge and are heavier than a thought. So when she asks people ‘is it true?’ the truth is of course it’s true if there is a feeling or emotion, or even a thought, and so what she is really asking is ‘Is it right?’ and this involves a subtle manipulation whereby the recipient of this ‘Work’ most likely feels they should not feel what they already feel. She seems to need to get people to a preconceived place of turnarounds, and whatever other methods she has. Pah! It’s all too much trouble and disrespect!

Good quote – I will look up Jackie. You know, it’s pretty surprising looking at liberation now, versus, awakening, that in the West (or East as well?) this distinction is not really made very clearly. It’s very rare. Most people think the ‘I Am’ is the be all and end all, the final resting place. I think for me the part of this whole game that interests me (at this time anyway) is the way in which the ‘me’ (‘I’) arises in a space of no individuality – and more than simply being “an aid to existence” it is also a lot of fun. How much fun is it to be shamelessly your ‘you’ without being the ‘you’ at all! That’s why Tony Parsons enjoys his talks so much, perhaps more than ‘anyone else’ present. (except for me of course)

Somewhere on her website I read that she charges people $20,000 to stay in this luxurious retreat house for somee coule of days to do the work. $20,000?! Wow. I’d rather spend that money on weed (nah I’m just kidding).

In me opinion snake oil business woman. (I hope so I need some oil to fry some chicken).

There’s also this other “enlightened dude”( whom i found on buddha at the gas pump, can’t remember his name) . If i’m correct (n his website) he charges you $1,000 or more if you want financial advice or help, this made me laugh.

It seems that these days people who claim to be “enlightened” (or are enlightened ) can cough up a few beautiful words And people will gladly blindly take out some cash from there child’s college funds and splash out on these “gurus” . (Maybe, but I dnt know for sure)

To me where there’s money there is business. People are charged thousands f bucks and pounds and other currencies to be told information about awakening and meditation that has been around for thousands of years.
People also need to realise that they are giving their power away.

Wow I dnt normally write this much me fingers havedeginetly burned some caloies