My WW disclosed to me today that she still Facebook 'stalks' her AP (note: I use the term 'stalk' to mean she often checks out his FB page). We have had a NC agreement since our last DDay (01/24/2013). Let me also say that she was very honest and forthcoming with me about her visits to his FB page when I asked her about it. This is a big step because in the past, she would have flat-out lied and denied it. While I'm disappointed she is still 'keeping' him in her life by following up on him on FB, I am not nearly as hurt as I would be if she was still lying about it and about the OM.

So I guess I have two questions to ask:

1) Do you consider it to be "Contact" with an AP if you are FB stalking them? That is, is FB stalking really included in NC if there is no chatting on FB or posting, but just regularly checking the AP's FB page?

2) We all know how an A is literally like a drug, and a WS could be analogous to a drug addict (needing their "fix", which is an A). So, do you think FB stalking (or really any contact, for that matter) is the "addict" getting their fix? Like just a little drop of the drug to give them some sort of good feeling that they lost after the A ended? Kind of a strange analogy, but it's all I can think of.

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. I'm struggling with how to deal with and process this.

Emotional no contact is important just like no calls, texts, emails, visits. She is not emotionally no contact with her ap. I would block ap on Facebook. Wife can't see him and he can't see her. I blocked both of us. I think married ow is a scary person who already saw enough of our lives. She is blocked from my and WH FB and from linked in. Good she is telling the truth. But emotional no contact is next goal. Hang in there.

[This message edited by OnAnIsland at 3:20 PM, April 18th (Thursday)]

D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful sons

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou

Posts: 1486 | Registered: Dec 2011

NoraLee♀ 37922Member # 37922

Posted: 3:34 PM, April 18th (Thursday), 2013

NC includes head space - I feel she's still in the A - she needs to devote ALL her attention to your healing first, then her healing - and OM plays no part in either...I'm so sorry Theradin...this must be so painful for you...lean on us...we hear you...

I would consider this a breach of NC. For me, I would be concerned that WW is still emotionally invested in AP and allowing thoughts of him into her head. My understanding of the purpose of NC is to end all involvement, and to refocus all efforts into the rebuilding of your M.

With respect whether the A is like a drug, I would want WW to come to me with or tell me what she is needing from me to help her get over this "fix". By continuing to stalk via FB and looking for that "high", she is not being fair to you or R.

I understand the urge to look at FB. I am a BS and after D-Day, I checked the AP's FB page several times per day. I would scroll through her friend list, check out her children and look at pictures. After two weeks of doing this, I found that each time I visited AP's FB page, it would bring back all of the anger and pain and send me back to the beginning. I stopped going to the FB page. Even though my perspective is different as the BS, your WW may be reliving moments by and keeping her memories fresh in her mind and this cannot be good for a successful R. She is to be given credit for coming clean but it would be better if she was to truly commit to NC and stop the FB stalking.

BW (me)42
WH 44
3 daughters, 1 son
Married 10 years, together 13
DDay 3/14/2013, four year PA
In R
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain things will never go back to the way they used to be."

Posts: 437 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada

JanaGreen♀ 29341Member # 29341

Posted: 3:59 PM, April 18th (Thursday), 2013

I understand the urge to look at FB. I am a BS and after D-Day, I checked the AP's FB page several times per day. I would scroll through her friend list, check out her children and look at pictures. After two weeks of doing this, I found that each time I visited AP's FB page, it would bring back all of the anger and pain and send me back to the beginning. I stopped going to the FB page. Even though my perspective is different as the BS, your WW may be reliving moments by and keeping her memories fresh in her mind and this cannot be good for a successful R. She is to be given credit for coming clean but it would be better if she was to truly commit to NC and stop the FB stalking.

Ditto. I fight the urge to facebook stalk (sometimes I fail) because every time I do it, it puts me in a very bad place mentally. I'd say for a WS to do it is even worse.

I would also consider it a breach of NC. This means she has NOT completely complied with NC since your last DDay. I wouldn't just block the AP on FB either. I would have her get rid of her FB completely. It is easy to unblock someone and then reblock them. I have done so when I want to "check up" on my FWH's AP even though she is blocked on my FB. I woud be leery about trusting that she would not take that contact further. It is my opinion that you can't truly R until the AP is COMPLETELY gone from your lives. By FB stalking him, she is still giving a part of herself to him. Unacceptable in true R!

It is a total and complete breach of the no contact rule and concept. She MUST excise this person from her mind in order to properly reconcile with you. You have had an assortment of ddays. Do you have any dealbreakers in place? Do you know what you want? Are you really going to give her credit for no lying, when she is clearly not out of her affair mindset?

Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Rec'd.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 7148 | Registered: Jan 2011

Thorston♂ 38709Member # 38709

Posted: 6:30 PM, April 18th (Thursday), 2013

I agree, if she will not block him, and you have her login info, send him a message from her account, letting him know that it is you and you want him to block her. If he refuses, you could always post on his wall things that he would not want the world to see.

She is not exhibiting the behavior of someone in R. NC means just that, NC ~ no exceptions.

While I agree it is a positive step that your WW is not lying to you about her keeping contact via FB, I think it is terrible that she continues to betray you with this behavior.

What would I do? Give her a choice, stop the behavior or leave. Period.

ME: 55 BS
HIM: 63 WH
Married: 30 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 4+ years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.

Posts: 2233 | Registered: Nov 2011

heforgotme♀ 38391Member # 38391

Posted: 9:57 AM, April 19th (Friday), 2013

Do you consider it to be "Contact" with an AP if you are FB stalking them?

Yes. NC means mentally too. And doing this is taking time away from her real life and what should be her priorities.

D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1126 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL

Theradin♂ 38518Member # 38518

Posted: 10:50 AM, April 19th (Friday), 2013

Wow! Thanks for everyone's responses. I was overwhelmed by the number of people who 100% completely agreed FB stalking is considered breaking NC! I had a gut feeling it was, but wanted to feel validated by checking with others, and literally 100% of you said YES!

I want to update this thread by saying that my WW and I spoke about this yesterday, and she has since deactivated her FB account (I believe her - what do I have to lose at this point anyway?).. She has identified a very ugly part of herself that she is working to resolve that has kept her tied up in the past (not only with her AP, but with ex-BFs, former friends of hers that wronged her or harmed her, etc.). In a sense, it was her way of living in the past and trying to figure out why she was ever even associated with these people.

She was also emphatic about the A being over, and that she doesn't have feelings for the OM anymore. What we were able to dig into and find out, that she then was able to reveal as she seemingly just realized it herself, is that she has "unresolved feelings about the affair", but not about her AP, in particular. She feels hurt by him (he lied to her, etc., was seeing someone else, was 'making a living' off of gambling and selling drugs, lives on someone's couch, etc.), and she says she just feels very, very hurt by him and the A in general, and has unresolved feelings about that. I think that makes sense? Maybe it's like getting dumped by someone and then having to work through the shame, hurt, etc.? It's just strange to do that while you are already in a relationship with your spouse, and claim that your heart is 100% into R and the marriage. But then again, I've never been in that situation, and can't imagine how confusing and perplexing it must be.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and advice. If you have any follow-up comments/advice based on this update, I'd LOVE to hear it!

Yes, and it is her job to resolve them. But not by facebook stalking; she should be looking at HERSELF, not OM.

She feels hurt by him (he lied to her, etc., was seeing someone else, was 'making a living' off of gambling and selling drugs, lives on someone's couch, etc.), and she says she just feels very, very hurt by him and the A in general, and has unresolved feelings about that.

Here’s the thing. She actively chose to get involved with this clearly dysfunctional person. While she had a husband and children who loved her at home. It is silly for her to try to figure out why a broken, [deleted] person used her when she OFFERED herself to be used!!! Rather, she needs to look at herself and start to figure out why she would do such a thing. Stop putting the blame on OM. Stop expecting you to support her as she goes through her withdrawal (seriously, that is just cruel – she needs to get on SI or get a good IC to deal with that). Stop making herself the victim – they both participated in hurting you and your kids.

I know our first reaction as BSs and as (usually) the stronger one in the relationship, is to try to understand and to fix. But if the M is going to survive and thrive, the WS needs to take on the responsibility for this. You should discuss, certainly, but be gently insistent that the problem arises from the choices she made, and those are the only things she can control. No more analyzing the OM and stalking – he doesn’t matter. You do.

edited: oops-I am not used to posting in Reconciliation- had to delete a certain adjective for OP. I think it is safe to say he is dysfunctional, though?

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown

Posts: 1254 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land

7yrsflushed♂ 32258Member # 32258

Posted: 3:34 PM, April 19th (Friday), 2013

Stop expecting you to support her as she goes through her withdrawal (seriously, that is just cruel – she needs to get on SI or get a good IC to deal with that). Stop making herself the victim – they both participated in hurting you and your kids.

^^^^This...Lyonesse covered it. Please do not become your WW's sounding board as she emotionally dumps from detoxing from OM. Everything you typed in that last post was her still talking about her, her feelings, what OM did, and how she felt during the A. It was still all I, I, I, Me, Me, Me. As Lyonesse stated she needs to work that out in IC or here on SI if she chooses because dumping all that on you is likely a recipe for disaster for YOU. This is especially true if you haven't hit an anger stage yet. Speaking from experience hitting an anger stage and then remembering my WW laying in bed crying about missing OM and how she felt betrayed by him is not pretty. they need to resolve their own issues.

All her mixed up feelings about HER choices and the emotional dumping she has from detoxing from OM should not be done with you.

I don't know your story but if she was FB stalking OM she is still foggy so take care of yourself while she finishes defogging. Keep taking care of yourself, keep going to counseling, and stick to your boundaries and conditions for R.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 3:36 PM, April 19th (Friday)]

D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 2032 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA

Theradin♂ 38518Member # 38518

Posted: 4:22 PM, April 19th (Friday), 2013

OK so several folks have asked what a 'guacamole relief valve' is. And so I'll go ahead and explain it (it's not that great of a story and it's a little long (sorry!), but it's how I cope, so I'll discuss):

The very first time I ever even noticed anything that seemed odd about my WW's A was back on April 14th, 2012 (this was just a couple days before my birthday, by the way). Well, her laptop was opened up right next to me, and her Facebook was right there, and right on the center of the screen was a message from what I have later learned is her AP (even as far back as 2006, yet I had NO idea). So, I read it, just out of curiosity, and it was very disturbing and non-platonic in any way. It is the oldest memory I have of first learning something was 'up', but didn't know how to respond or what to say? Maybe the innocence in me thought it could be a joke from a friend? Sounds totally moronic now, I know, but that was the mindset I was always in before learning about this whole A and everything that my WW had been doing behind my back for years and years.

Well, this may sound odd, but for me, I find it very therapeutic to bring into the light stuff from the A that she shared with her AP to expose it for what it really was. And in doing so, I feel as though I have processed it and accepted it as simply just garbage from their A that can no longer affect me, and is firmly planted in the past now.

That being said, I named this thread guacamole relief valve because it had to do with Facebook & NC, which is where I first discovered her messing around on me. It all kind of ties in together in a strange, therapeutic way. And by sharing this now, I feel as though I can file this away as the past, and for what it really was: very disturbing, immature and inappropriate conversation between a WW and an AP.

So, here is the actual message that I read on my WW's Facebook that her AP sent her just a little over a year ago. <WARNING: It's graphic and looks like something middle-schoolers would write>

"I need a rape kit stat! I need to insert things into your guacomole relief valve. Oh geez um what I was kinda sayin is I can't stop thinking about your ass. I wanna squeeze and rub. Maybe a lick. Sorry I'm making plans with your body . I will be gentle. I'm not joking about the ass though. I'm kinda freakin out. Your ass along with many other things is like heroin great. I wanna piece. Fly out here. I'll put a glove on so it's not cheating."

So there it is. That is the "guacamole relief valve" explanation for the title of this thread. I'll let you go ahead and imagine on your own what the AP was meaning by "guacamole relief valve".

Thanks for hearing me out and providing all the support and advice. One day at a time, right?