I'm still pissed that there are any idiotic laws like that still in place anywhere. It's quite frustrating trying to buy alcohol past 2am or on a Sunday morning in MI. Particularly when one works nights and 2am is like mid afternoon on my night off. Can we please stop trying to regulate non-harmful actions and morals with the fist of government?

pute kisses like a man:over new year's eve i was a little startled by the thought that this country once thought it was a good idea to prohibit alcohol.

It was a grim enabler of domestic violence back then. For a disenfranchised majority that had no rights, no freedoms, no income, and no financial or political independence, and with no abuse helplines, no marriage counseling, no Alcoholics Anonymous and no women's shelters of any kind, it's understandable why women felt the need to get rid of booze, once they were officially given the right to do so.

ChipNASA:More than a century after Carrie Nation started the Temperance Movement, Kansas may allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores. Your move, Pennsylvania marijuana./ftfu

Yes - the next generation will say "Can you believe once that tobacco was LEGAL and marijuana ILLEGAL?"

P.S. Here's something I've never seen mentioned concerning alcohol and pot: Pot will make you drink less alcohol. If I"m getting high and drinking, I seriously drink maybe 1 beer...mostly I want my "high" from the weed and "beer" for hydration which it doesn't work so I go to water. Realizing this is but anecdotal evidence - any one else experience this?

I learned the hard way about Kansas' weak beer in convenience stores rules when I was traveling through that Godforsaken wasteland and had to stop overnight because the weather got shiatty. Picked up a six pack, got checked into a hotel in Parsons, and NOOO...it was just like Utah all over again.

simkatu:I like the idea of having exclusive liquor stores. It helps maintain small locally owned businesses in Kansas and allows for some pretty neat stores that have huge selections of wine, or huge selections of all kinds of beer, or big selections of everything. Once Costco and Sam's Club and Kroger's and Quiktrip are in the game, then we will see a reduction of choices and large numbers of successful businesses will be shuttered so that the billionaires can monopolize yet another market.

I'd also like to be able for young children to go to the grocery store and convenience stores without seeing a bunch of drunk toothless insane hobos scrounging around the stores hustling for more booze. Its nice to have places that sell adults only items to be far away from my grocery store. I like adult only activities, but I am considerate of others around me that would prefer not to be so close to it.

Here in California, alcohol (liquor, beer, and wine) are sold at supermarkets, big-box stores, independent liquor stores, corner markets, specialty stores, breweries and wineries, and pretty much anywhere else that wants a license. It's been this way my whole life (probably much longer). Guess what: none of the problems you've described exist. Not a single one. The demographics buying at specialty stores aren't threatened or hurt by those buying at Costco and supermarkets. My Costco has a lot of the name-brand big-label stuff, and usually a few smaller operations too. Specialty stores, of course, have a bigger choice. If anything, the popularity of craft beer and wine (and large sales) have influenced the larger stores to carry more of these kinds of products, not the other way around.

As with any law you have to look a bit deeper than just "morality police!!!".

Anytime one of these laws come up for debate, look to see who's funding the opposition. Who's ox is going to get gored?

In Colorado, the biggest opponents, by far, to grocery stores selling beer/alchohol/wine (non-3.2 beer that is) are local small liquor stores, bars and craft beer makers.

They fear large, national chain stores like Walmart will be able to bring in product by the truckload at much, much lower prices and undercut them.

And they spread fear (FUD? maybe) in the consumers that such large chains like Walmart will only stock the biggest sellers, the most popular brands...ie, water down the choice. I've read plenty of wine blogs out of California that tell similar tales. The most important and biggest influencer of wine purchasing in the nation is the national wine buyer from Walmart...a women who reportedly doesn't really like wine at all IIRC. She views it at just another commodity to maximize profits on.

That's where the real debate lies. That's where the money is. Not with some notion of morality.

This totally won't make the highways a bloodbath after every idiot who thinks being drunk is totally cool decides to hop in a driver's seat, right? The 21st amendment and this country's ass-backwards drinking culture is a farking disgrace, more people die from drunk drivers than plane crashes, sharks, and terrorism combined.

In b4 drunkards say that alcohol control is impossible, Saudi Arabia and a boatload of middle eastern countries do it and they have virtually no alcohol abuse. If they can do it, so can we.

Solid effort starting out, but I'm going to have to deduct points for that last paragraph. Way too obvious.4/10

Having first hand knowledge of the way PA laws work, there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation out there. The first being that the PLCB is some type of tyrannical, puritan nanny state organization hell bent on stopping anyone from getting their drink on...it's actually quite the opposite. State laws require alcohol to be sold in a certain manner which is regulated by PLCB, the PLCB is pushing for modernization and allowing sales within grocery stores and other venues but the major pushbacks are coming from lobbyist groups and private organizations who stand to lose (beer distributors and MADD).

A big part of the problem is the fact that in some way small businesses will always be disenfranchised with progress. The more licenses given to the Wal-Marts of the world, the less mom & pop beer shops there are. With the insanely huge size of PA's legislature it's an exercise in complete futility to get any changes on the lawbooks because of the vast representation.

On the other side is the privatization argument, in it's purest sense right now the way it works is that the more booze that's sold, the less you pay in taxes. The store side is pushing towards matching privatization also but they get stymied every 4 years when there is a change in leadership and the new governor appoints a new boss. Anyone with business sense knows it takes longer than 4 years to put together an effective business strategy.

The latest chairman is a plant by Corbett who has his own agenda and is turning back all the changes made from the previous administration. It's way too many hands in the pot.

My own personal take is that it doesn't really matter to me as long as I don't pay more in taxes and as long as dirtbag drug dealing crime dens get liquor licenses.

the_end_is_rear:theurge14: If the red states truly want smaller government, they can start to demonstrate that by removing intrusive morality laws such as this one.

But these kind of laws are ok when they are shoving their version of morality and religion down ones throat.

Isn't always morality (but started out that way - the Temperance movement was one of big progressive causes back in the day), but money. Virginia, Maryland and Rhode Island have some crazy laws but are not "red states". One purple, two very, very blue.

technically - some supermarkets do sell beer (such as Wegman's) but they're separate shops (with separate entrances and registers) attached to the supermarket. there isn't a "beer isle" - you can't drop a 6 pack in your cart then go for your milk and bread like in most normal states. if you buy any alcohol, you have to leave the store, put it in your car, then come back in to shop.

a lot of convenience stores here in PA are the same way - they'll have two entrances. one will take you into the regular store, and the beer/6 pack store will be a separate entrance and walled off from the rest of the store. if you want gasoline and a 6 pack of Yuengling, you just have to go to two separate cash registers.

/still shocked that some liquors stores are now even open on Sundays here in PA

I grew up in PA so I was used to weird laws -- then I moved to Ohio and figured out the 80 proof crap (and I was in a college town and you needed a car to get to the only liquor store nearby). That was more taunting than anything -- "Hey, we can sell beer, wine and flavored vodka and rum crap anywhere, but not everything else"

I did once buy a fifth of Jack in a Walmart in Indiana -- just not on Sunday or Election Day before the polls close.

Minnesota is like how Pennsylvania is becoming, grocery stores can sell anything (including liquor) but they have to be "separate". In the actual grocery store itself, it's only near beer.

North Carolina has this weird rule where it's legal to buy alcohol on Sundays. It's taking some getting used to. But that's balanced by needing to go to the ABC store to buy liquor, but they ONLY sell liquor and you need to go to the grocery store to get beer and wine.

Magorn:Liquor laws just confuse the hell out me. I grew up in an MD country where All Alcohol had to be purchased at a liquor store, but they were all privately owned. One county up it was beer and wine in the supermarkets, but all hard booze came from county-run and owned ABC stores. Supposedly red State VA is like that all over the state. My favorite was Chicago where Beer and liquor are equally available at your local supermarkets...

I get spoiled by Missouri's surprisingly liberal alcohol laws. Outside of the 1:30 am cutoff rules, there aren't many restrictions in place around here. I've had relatives literally freak out at the large beer and liquor departments in our grocery and convenience stores. We're talking like taking pictures and posting it on Facebook.

shiat, I don't like the idea of Oklahoma being behind Kansas in anything. But maybe this will help OK pass similar laws. It drives me nuts that I can't just walk into a supermarket and grab a bottle of wine or something stronger than 3.2 beer.

More than a century after Carrie Nation started the Temperance Movement, KansasBrownbackistan may allow liquor to be sold in grocery stores. Your move, Pennsylvania

Farking shiathole. Drove from Cali to Topucka once, arriving on a Sunday. Stopped to fuel up the truck and buy a 6-pack, only to discover they can't sell beeralcohol on Sundays. WTF is wrong with that place?

taurusowner:I'm still pissed that there are any idiotic laws like that still in place anywhere. It's quite frustrating trying to buy alcohol past 2am or on a Sunday morning in MI. Particularly when one works nights and 2am is like mid afternoon on my night off. Can we please stop trying to regulate non-harmful actions and morals with the fist of government?

Liquor laws just confuse the hell out me. I grew up in an MD country where All Alcohol had to be purchased at a liquor store, but they were all privately owned. One county up it was beer and wine in the supermarkets, but all hard booze came from county-run and owned ABC stores. Supposedly red State VA is like that all over the state. My favorite was Chicago where Beer and liquor are equally available at your local supermarkets which means two things: Shopping is a LOT more fun on "free sample" days, and you can sometimes get mega door-buster, loss-leader type promotions on booze right around the holidays

buzzcut73:I learned the hard way about Kansas' weak beer in convenience stores rules when I was traveling through that Godforsaken wasteland and had to stop overnight because the weather got shiatty. Picked up a six pack, got checked into a hotel in Parsons, and NOOO...it was just like Utah all over again.