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"Occupy Wall Street is a political project, but it is equally a cri de coeur, an exercise in constructive group dynamics, a release from isolation, resignation, and futility. The process, not the platform, is the point. Anyway, OWS is not the Brookings Institution. But its implicit grievances are plain enough: the mass pain of mass unemployment, underemployment, and economic insecurity; the corrupting, pervasive political influence of big money; the outrageous, rapidly growing inequality of wealth and income; the impunity of the financial-industry scammers whose greed and fraud precipitated the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression; a broken political system hobbled by a Republican right willing and usually able to block any measures, however timid and partial, that might relieve the suffering."--The New Yorker

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

I got full tuition scholarships at some amazing universities. Not all students at swanky universities are rich. In fact, the swankier the school, the bigger the endowment, and the higher percentage of people who get through on smarts, not rich daddies.

Silly stereotypes don't help your argument.

First off -- out of state students at UVM pay over $47,000 for tuitions, fees, room and board. You quoted in-state costs, which put UVM as one of the highest in-state cost schools. Additionally, given the states small population (and the school's in-state cost), UVM has a higher than average percentage of out of state students. Please get your facts straight -- I am a UVM alum who was there for Reunion weekend. I paid over $14,000/year as an out of state student back in the early 80's there. So -- your Financial Aid numbers show that 40% of the folks there get no need based aid -- probably most of those are the out of state folks.

Additionally, you were not present in Burlington, so you did not see what I saw. Please climb back up on your stupid horse and continue patroling the Swiss.

I agree with Joe's take on the OWS movement. It is a movement for social and political change; why do we have to have a clear set of "demands", as the media continues to put it? The way that Wall Street and big business have run a lot of us into the ground didn't come with any play-by-play instructions. That's the whole point. They do as they please, because THEY control government, not WE the People.

I fully support OWS, and would like to support them financially (to the extent that my meager existence allows).

BTW, do you notice that there's not a lot of coverage, just a minute or two, on the big news networks, like NBC, ABC, CBS....and not much more on CNN. Wonder if that might be because they are all controlled by big business, and it's not in their best interest to show it? Hmmm....

Just my .2 devalued cents worth....

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"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

I think it was directed at bocker, who gets angry when he speaks half truths (quoting the OUT of state tuition to cast UVM as a bunch of spoilt brats) then has to walk them back.

Of course I know the difference between in state and out of state tuition dearie.

ANYONE struggling to pay expensive out of state tuition for an average school is a fool. There are cheaper better options in state, no doubt, and cheaper schools period. If you you're a rich ski bum, it is fine to pay through the nose for that school. But there are other options.

So if your dismissive comments about UVM applies to the rich preppies, go on, have at them. Oh but wait, they can have progressive politics too. Imagine that.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 06:19:17 AM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I think it was directed at bocker, who gets angry when he speaks half truths (quoting the OUT of state tuition to cast UVM as a bunch of spoilt brats) then has to walk them back.

Of course I know the difference between in state and out of state tuition dearie.

ANYONE struggling to pay expensive out of state tuition for an average school is a fool. There are cheaper better options in state, no doubt, and cheaper schools period. If you you're a rich ski bum, it is fine to pay through the nose for that school. But there are other options.

So if your dismissive comments about UVM applies to the rich preppies, go on, have at them. Oh but wait, they can have progressive politics too. Imagine that.

Are you daft? What I was pointing out was the hypocrisy of folks who, likely come from money, protesting against people with money and acting like they don't. So.............. the point that out of state tuition is high for UVM was central to what I was saying. There were no half truths mentioned by me, sweetie.So, I had NO dismissive comments about UVM, as I am a proud UVM alum -- my comments were directed at some of the protestors that I witnessed. Again, I will state -- unless you were on holiday in Burlington, you didn't see what I saw and I was commenting on an ACTUAL observation of mine. Therefore -- your opinion does not matter, at least as it pertains to my comments on actual events.

Mike(who had to pay his out of state tuition by signing up with the military and, ultimately, serving in combat to "pay" it back)

@ I care you are very argumentative to the many senior members in this forum as well as some of the mods, what's up with that? we all wanna know why that is

Double standards and hypocrisy, and someone (senior member perhaps) calling into question my HIV status and reasons for trying to connect with others in support of OWS... I guess I should have expected that the same things that have kept me from identifying fully with the "gay culture" in general would be present here.

Double standards and hypocrisy, and someone (senior member perhaps) calling into question my HIV status and reasons for trying to connect with others in support of OWS... I guess I should have expected that the same things that have kept me from identifying fully with the "gay culture" in general would be present here.

A bit sensitive are we?

First off this is a support forum, not a recruit members for YOUR agenda forum. Secondly, you were asked to introduce yourself. This is where you tell us a little bit about who you are, as opposed to leaving us guessing whether you are a person living with HIV. Hell we still don't know if you're a man or woman, twenty or forty, purple or green.... but, I guess we all can now guess correctly that you are straight.

I suppose a wee bit homophobic perhaps as well..

But yet you want us, I'm straight by the way, to come and support your movement. Which, I'm guessing, are for the very same healthcare workers unwilling to see some of those here who do not have insurance.

Double standards and hypocrisy, and someone (senior member perhaps) calling into question my HIV status and reasons for trying to connect with others in support of OWS... I guess I should have expected that the same things that have kept me from identifying fully with the "gay culture" in general would be present here.

Sorry dearie, but I didn't "call into question", your HIV status -- I simply asked it what it was. Frankly, you have done nothing but troll around trying to pull folks into your protest with nary a backstory. You have been relentless in your postings and have even started doing it via PMs (I'm assuming I'm not the only one you PM'd to come join you-- for the record, I live in richmond, va, so I won't be joining you).

I agree with Joe's take on the OWS movement. It is a movement for social and political change; why do we have to have a clear set of "demands", as the media continues to put it? The way that Wall Street and big business have run a lot of us into the ground didn't come with any play-by-play instructions. That's the whole point. They do as they please, because THEY control government, not WE the People.

I fully support OWS, and would like to support them financially (to the extent that my meager existence allows).

BTW, do you notice that there's not a lot of coverage, just a minute or two, on the big news networks, like NBC, ABC, CBS....and not much more on CNN. Wonder if that might be because they are all controlled by big business, and it's not in their best interest to show it? Hmmm....

Just my .2 devalued cents worth....

Spot on Alan. And Aunty Joe too.

I'd love to claim the following words as my own, but I can't. What I can do is not tell y'all where I nicked 'em from.

I never thought I'd be saying this, but you guys are stunningly... moderate in your politics. Safe. Generic. Bland.

Am I the only one who remember when it first became big news that the TSA was doing pat-downs, and suddenly everybody was up in arms about? Every radical worth their salt had been opposed to the TSA from the beginning, but only when white, middle-class men starting getting groped did the general public give a shit. Who cares if some sand-niggers and "professional activists" get pulled out of line, their phones and laptops confiscated and analyzed for "suspicious information", then interrogated and held for hours with no indication of that they were even breaking the law. Who cares that feminists (I thought you all were feminists? I guess not.) objected to the pat-downs as ripe for sexual harassment incidents.

But what's this? White, middle-class blokes—guys who aren't even filthy radicals!—getting pat-downs, too? Privileged majorities suddenly getting nudie-scans of them taken? OMG, the TSA is the worst thing ever and all good citizens must protest this and campaign against it!

But, fuck you hippies. Rights for me and not for you. Keep getting beaten by police. Keep getting relegated to "free speech zones". Keep getting watched by the FBI for protesting the wrong thing. Keep being ignored. These things are only news-worthy when they happen to us.

And the impoverished, the disadvantaged, the marginalized people you radicals fight so hard to help? Don't worry—I'm sure we'll get around to them. As soon as we get our jobs, our houses, our privileged lifestyles back, because ours are so much more important. (The middle class is the engine of the economy, and all that! I heard a politician say it once!) I'm sure we'll remember to overhaul the system that's been failing those people for decades.

The punks, hippies, and anarchists you're complaining about? They were warning us about the dangers of unchecked corporatism and government power for years—decades, even. But they were marginalized, ignored, told to shut the fuck up and let the system be. And now that they've been proven right, you all have the temerity to fret that they're co-opting the Occupy Wall Street movement, when it should be the other way around?