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Maine Geocaching and State Parks

As an original member of GeocacachingMaine.org I was wondering if you guys have any endorsements from the state parks and thus have begun any correspondence with them regarding policies on placing caches within state parks? I know when I was a member we were talking about working with all landowners and parks and such regarding this but haven't heard any talk recently of anything regarding this. I think working with them and being proactive can only help geocaching in the state.

I have enclosed a short video about one of the state parks involved with the Georgia State Parks geo challenge and thought you would enjoy what is going on here in Georgia.

I am in talks with the new government authorities about this subject. A couple of the parks had unofficially banned caches and had been confiscating them.

The state wants to have a lot of hands on input which means a bunch of man hours. The problem is that now there is no time or money for this. So we are kind of at a stand still. Now with the new budget in place I think things will move along.

Mike, I found your note to be a bit cryptic as well. Before LePage was elected, I shared a podium with my friend and former DOC Commissioner Pat McGowan and he was clearly in tune with geocaching. If the state is to be approached, it has to be handled appropriately and not without some thought. I think the board here is aware of the issue and could help develop an approach that would help.

Maine Geocaching and State Parks

Perhaps at the same time the board could develop an approach in reference to the essentially off limits attitude to geocaching of TNC (The Nature Conservancy) in negotiating a lttle more access to the lands they oversee. I don't know if it's a primarilly Southern Maine thing or statewide but they have a very negative attitude towards geocaching in general as referenced to me by their Land Steward, Daniel Grenier, in a request to place a cache on land they control. The Nature Conservancies mission is “to protect ecologically important lands and waters for nature and people”. The last time I checked all of the Geocachers I’ve met are people.
Mr. Grenier stated in an email response to me “As a policy, The Nature Conservancy in Maine does not allow geocaching on our preserves.” a check of the TNC Web Site for Maine states “Geocaching – Placing of geocaches is generally discouraged because of the disturbance to areas off-trail.” This statement pretty much shows that Mr. Grenier has taken it on himself to enforce a policy that he has made up himself. The words “in Maine” in this statement made me curious if all TNC states are created equally so I checked on TNC policies in other states and immediately found that TNC in Maine is more or less anti geocaching state – probably due to Mr. Grenier’s aversion to Geocaching unlike states such as New York: They even offer geocaching introductory training. http://www.nature.org/wherewework/no...vents5227.html
and Virginia which publishes easy guidelines to placing caches on their lands: http://www.novago.org/forum/viewtopi...t=1765&start=0
Many TNC web sites of many other states provide easy to use guide lines and forms for Geocachers to establish caches on their properties. I personally sent three email requests to Mr. Grenier last year requesting to place caches on one of TNC properties and finally gave up on the quest after never receiving a single response.
I don't know if any of you realize it or not but TNC is rapidly signing up small woodlot owners to place their land under TNC control in York and Cumberland Counties and perhaps in even more areas statewide. When this land is placed under TNC control it immediately become off limits to geocaching. If you watch the new cache placements in New Hampshire ( a state with relatively little TNC land holdings) vs new cache placements in southern Maine you will see a very large number of placements in New Hampshire compared to a nearly stagnant number in Southern Maine over the past year. I believe a large number of cachers are just not placing caches in Maine due to a large amount of the land under TNC control - thus most of our newer caches are light skirt and guard rail hides. I urge the board to work on a negotiation with TNC to show them that geocaching is not as destructive to the land as Mr. Grenier believes it is. See my prior post dated 1-5-11 http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum...ght=#post72322

I think it would be a great time for the board and the general geocaching Maine constituency to now sit down and have some really productive dialog regarding the placement of caches in areas such as these and to come up with formal geocaching guidelines that can be used by TNC and also the state parks. It was one of the very 1st things that was on the agenda when I first became one of the original members of GCM.org and there doesn't seem to have been any other action taken to try and come up with some formal guidelines regarding this very issue. Although I'm not a Maine resident now I still consider Maine to be my home and hopefully you guys can come up with something to make it easier for cache placements in areas such as this.

Maybe it's time for a poll and ask the general population if there is a need for a general guidlines regarding the placement of caches in these areas.

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I think it would be a great time for the board and the general geocaching Maine constituency to now sit down and have some really productive dialog regarding the placement of caches in areas such as these and to come up with formal geocaching guidelines that can be used by TNC and also the state parks. It was one of the very 1st things that was on the agenda when I first became one of the original members of GCM.org and there doesn't seem to have been any other action taken to try and come up with some formal guidelines regarding this very issue. Although I'm not a Maine resident now I still consider Maine to be my home and hopefully you guys can come up with something to make it easier for cache placements in areas such as this.

Maybe it's time for a poll and ask the general population if there is a need for a general guidlines regarding the placement of caches in these areas.

I, for one, don't like polls. Why do you need a poll when this has been brought up since day 1 and is clearly back on the table? Debating things as important as this on a website to me is the wrong approach. A committee approach with folks who sit at a table together and bring it back to the "membership" is, to me, a better approach.

IMHO the guideline suggestion should start with the State Parks. TNC is a totally different story. Not one to be put aside but certainly not the one to tackle in the beginning.

The timing was wrong for GMC to do anything until the site became more than just a forum website which was owned by an individual. Since, there is now a formal organization it should probably come back to the table.

Mike, I found your note to be a bit cryptic as well. Before LePage was elected, I shared a podium with my friend and former DOC Commissioner Pat McGowan and he was clearly in tune with geocaching. If the state is to be approached, it has to be handled appropriately and not without some thought. I think the board here is aware of the issue and could help develop an approach that would help.

I was just stating the facts. Facts, the stuff your kind twists and manipulates to suit your cause. Just kidding. (kind of)

A couple of years ago caches started to disappear and then we found out some where being confiscated by the park mangers. One of them is a 2001 cache. Then an experienced cacher had been told by someone loosely connected with a park to go ahead and place several caches. When they were "caught" I was asked to help.

Several park managers were really upset as to having crap put in their parks with no permission or information being provided. Some managers only had a cursory idea of what caching was all about. After several meetings and long discussions includeing caching trips, plans started to form. Their plans were in short, way too time consuming for the park managers with very little in the way of criteria to use for reviewing and approving caches. So pretty much when a permission form came before a park manager it would be way to easy to misfile the paperwork into the trash rather than deal with it.

Things have been modified and a much easier plan is being reviewed.

By the way, several of the authorities have looked over the site and they were not impressed. The board seems to have little control over what is on the site and the board sure does not speak for me or mine. I am an information source explaining how things work now and what will not work.

This might seem a little harsh but this topic has been mentioned several times before. You, the board and anyone else had ample opportunity to contribute. Now after the fact you want to jump in.

In effect this site represents very few cachers anyway. Very few people that have signed up actually participate. Most signed up once and never came back. Just to check it out or were forced into signing up to buy a coin or some such. This site sure doesn't represent the cachers not on here or from out of state that place vacation caches. We have no say it any activities of anyone. We do not participate in any review or acceptance of caches in geocaching.com or any of the other like activities.

I think it would be a great time for the board and the general geocaching Maine constituency to now sit down and have some really productive dialog regarding the placement of caches in areas such as these and to come up with formal geocaching guidelines that can be used by TNC and also the state parks. It was one of the very 1st things that was on the agenda when I first became one of the original members of GCM.org and there doesn't seem to have been any other action taken to try and come up with some formal guidelines regarding this very issue. Although I'm not a Maine resident now I still consider Maine to be my home and hopefully you guys can come up with something to make it easier for cache placements in areas such as this.

Maybe it's time for a poll and ask the general population if there is a need for a general guidlines regarding the placement of caches in these areas.

I like this idea of yours to a point. This website, and that's all it is, represents nothing. It seems to have no control over it's own content and what is presented to the public. With the rising popularity of Opencaching.com and Letter Boxing which came long before geocaching and a couple of other similar activities this site has even less authority. Especially since once you sign up your information is held hostage. Unless you pay money you can not even correct a mistake or escape this site. Even then you can not get out completely. So as it stands now this site can not represent me or any other person, geocacher or not, in any way. As I have stated in my previous post ample opportunity presented itself for input and none was forthcoming and the issue is at and acceptable conclusion.