When i was just a youngster i went to Maywood with an older buddy or another pool player.He did fairly well on the horses we were walking out and he was quite a bit ahead of me and before i could stop him he lost $2000 to the scam.A few years later there was a couple of carnys in town, they were masters at 3 card monty.We became friends so i called this old halfest buddy and told him there was pool action that he could win at.Steered him right into a trap for about $3000, I would not do this to anyone anymore but i would sure love to find some whip cup action,as it is my favorite I once beat 3 Gary cops out of $700 playing for $5 a man.THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!!!!

Back in the early 80's the 3 card monty guys would ride the train from Great Lakes into Chicago and hustle the sailors, especially on payday weekends. Some of those guys would lose 2 weeks pay before they got to Chicago. Heck, they probably still do it.

The main 3 card monte crew was headed by a guy named Tony A and he was a pool sucker for me . He would drop off a couple hundred to me at the Golden Eight Ball everytime he came in ! You talking about a whip cup is like chinesse to these posters I guarantee i'm the only guy that know what it is . Back to Tony A him and the crew would go to the cicero avenue bus terminal and rob those bus drivers every payday . He made plenty !! A real good poolplayer named Charlie Jones even would go work with him when he busted out at the track !! The best hustler though was a guy named Billy Maples with the pea bottle where you each shake the bottle and high number wins ! Billy would get 3 or 4 guys to play for few bucks or even big money and he invented two ways with the bottle to win !! One was he had a magnets on the peas and only the high peas weren't magnetize and he held his magnet under his money when he shook the bottle and he always got a high numbered pea . Billy also invented the peek and thats were he would shake the bottle and catch a pea at the top and peek at it and if was a high pea number he would take it and if it was a low pea he would shake some more till he caught a high pea . The guy made tons of money back then ! A nice country guy who loved poolplayers too . I knew every scuff there was back then and actual miss those nights . He use to hang around in Burnham at Big Mike O'bannions bar and was also involved playing craps where they had the table juiced where naturally the dice sevened when ever they hit the button and they emptied out everybody that played . I use to play a guy pool in there named Corky on a crackerjack pool table 2 1/2 by 5 and the guy was super good and the best I could was break even and he wouldn't play anywhere else .

Phil i was very good friends with Billy Maples he used to play his games at The Trumpet in Burnham i used to shill for him,He was a very good friend of mine.Made a lot of money with Billy we had a whole lot of shit going on for years.He would stake me and go to the track with me too.He would always come to the 12/20 bowling alley to see me.We took some dope dealers off for about $50000 in a greek bar in Gary.He went out of town on business and never came back and i never heard from him again.He was way ahead of his time.I vaguely knew Charlie seen him in a lot of different places we would BS and thats about it with him I know he passed !!!! It has to be the same bar because i knew that 5ft pool table very well.

The main 3 card monte crew was headed by a guy named Tony A and he was a pool sucker for me . He would drop off a couple hundred to me at the Golden Eight Ball everytime he came in ! You talking about a whip cup is like chinesse to these posters I guarantee i'm the only guy that know what it is . Back to Tony A him and the crew would go to the cicero avenue bus terminal and rob those bus drivers every payday . He made plenty !! A real good poolplayer named Charlie Jones even would go work with him when he busted out at the track !! The best hustler though was a guy named Billy Maples with the pea bottle where you each shake the bottle and high number wins ! Billy would get 3 or 4 guys to play for few bucks or even big money and he invented two ways with the bottle to win !! One was he had a magnets on the peas and only the high peas weren't magnetize and he held his magnet under his money when he shook the bottle and he always got a high numbered pea . Billy also invented the peek and thats were he would shake the bottle and catch a pea at the top and peek at it and if was a high pea number he would take it and if it was a low pea he would shake some more till he caught a high pea . The guy made tons of money back then ! A nice country guy who loved poolplayers too . I knew every scuff there was back then and actual miss those nights . He use to hang around in Burnham at Big Mike O'bannions bar and was also involved playing craps where they had the table juiced where naturally the dice sevened when ever they hit the button and they emptied out everybody that played . I use to play a guy pool in there named Corky on a crackerjack pool table 2 1/2 by 5 and the guy was super good and the best I could was break even and he wouldn't play anywhere else .

I could go on and on about hustler stories !!

RTP

They use to be on every corner in Time's square, 2 black guys & a white guy who would be wining to make it look easy until the Mark jumped in and got ripped with the bent card! They were Pro's.

You are right Vegas they used to bend the card then you turned it over and it was the wrong card.

How about the crew of cab drivers that were working the International Term. at JFK, they would pick up the Asians and take them to NYC and when they got to the hotel they would take out a scale and weigh them and charge them by the pound. If they were 140lbs the fare was $140.00. Gotta love N.Y.

How about the crew of cab drivers that were working the International Term. at JFK, they would pick up the Asians and take them to NYC and when they got to the hotel they would take out a scale and weigh them and charge them by the pound. If they were 140lbs the fare was $140.00. Gotta love N.Y.

I figured you knew Billy because he was from your area and I always wondered what happen to him and figured he just retired and move south . The bad part about getting older is you wonder if friends of yours from the past are still alive . I know you must remember Louis Sullivan a real good friend of mine that I haven't seen for years and wonder if he is still around . One of these nights you take a ride to Maywood and shoot the breeze .

Noc , If you offered me a million I couldn't tell you where the bar was !!

I just remember it was a saturday morning spot and it was tricky finding the joint . I usually had a backer do the driving there .

I only went there 3 or 4 times the action was nill for me !! The other guys had it locked up .

RTP

King will know !

Phil, you gotta love the fact we got to experience this shit back then. Of course, YOU more than me (you being in Chicago, and a bit older than this shortstop in California. Oh, and a Whip Cup! You wont believe this, but I have one that my old buddy Arnold Bremler left me........also have his old leg-iron. Some day I'll post a couple good old stories about Arnie and I on the "huss" in California. Art W. (now in Vegas) told me you had a stake-horse who would bet high when you matched up right, and said you guys made some serious scores back in the 60's-70's.

RTP or TK were any of those bars on GreenBay Ave..Recall there were 3 or 4 in a three block span..One was directly across from the Old Burnham Police station.. ?

Noc i do not know the name of the street,but it was kind of a small bar.The bar was appx 45 ft long then curved to the right then there was room for a 5ft pool table on the left there were tables an chairs.I do remember it was closed to the Police Department.After O"Bannion had it a long hair guy named Al May took it over and it pretty much stayed the same.A lot of action in every sense of the word..I think you are right Green Bay Ave !!!!

I figured you knew Billy because he was from your area and I always wondered what happen to him and figured he just retired and move south . The bad part about getting older is you wonder if friends of yours from the past are still alive . I know you must remember Louis Sullivan a real good friend of mine that I haven't seen for years and wonder if he is still around . One of these nights you take a ride to Maywood and shoot the breeze .

RTP

You must remember crippled Bob an old pool scuff ?

I wonder if he is still living ?

Louie Sullivan i do not remember.Did he go by another name at all??Phil when i am able i will definately come to SUPER BOOTH #1.

King , No ! Louis even came around the Lyons Inn , he was a card and dice guy and whip cup . He was mostly bald in front , but a good looking man !! He use to go to Chico's bar too .

Grinder , Those days it was hustle to survive and chase women when you were going good . I had a couple good backers at the track until they tried to get over on me and then I would tell them get lost . A lot of greed by them ! Long story .

I never used a backer playing pool though because I normally had the nuts and only would make a bad game with the best player in Chicago Artie B and donate to him because I just wanted to beat him in pool or physically , but the latter would not have been a challenge , he couldn't fight a lick !! Today is one of my best friends in life . Some good memories and some bad , but all n all a very exciting life in all aspects .

Phil i might have the right guy you described if you can remember him always wearing a black 3/4 lenght leather coat.If thats him I did not know him well?But did you know a guy named willie john he had a very strong move playing dice ?

Noc i do not know the name of the street,but it was kind of a small bar.The bar was appx 45 ft long then curved to the right then there was room for a 5ft pool table on the left there were tables an chairs.I do remember it was closed to the Police Department.After O"Bannion had it a long hair guy named Al May took it over and it pretty much stayed the same.A lot of action in every sense of the word..I think you are right Green Bay Ave !!!!

Had been known to stop in occasionaly....All had 4am licenses. Well you could just stay and they would let you.Cicero bars they just closed for an hour...Kind of cleaned up around you and opened...Pretty much 24/7

3 card monte is actually a good bet for the player......you eliminate the "obvious" spot where they want you to think the card is (because you know its not there) and you are playing even with the house with a 50/50 shot to win.......

When I worked as a sales rep in Manhatten walking the streets calling on merchants in the late '70's, I would take the 3 card Monte dealers for an average of $100.00 a day until they got to know me. Their, I would throw my $20 down before their "patsy" would on top of the correct card and flip it myself. Always around a big crowd, they would pay me and I would leave. One time per dealer and I would walk away into the woodwork. When it was the patsy's turn to win it was a brief and easy call. You just had to act quick.

Burton , There were many 3 card monte crews over the usa and I know one thing my guys crew was never on TV . I'm sure they had somebody on the show , but no real scuff would appear .

Bello , You would have to be super fast to get paid with the crew I knew , the dealers object is to never let you reach for the pay card and turn it over ! If you got away with it for a 20 with them , it would be the last time the dealer got to work with the crew I knew .

King , You got it Louis always wore a 3/4 length leather ! Louis love bar room brawls too and handled himself pretty well . Louis and I use to drink all night together and bullshit with the women we were with just sitting there bored .

3 card monte is actually a good bet for the player......you eliminate the "obvious" spot where they want you to think the card is (because you know its not there) and you are playing even with the house with a 50/50 shot to win.......

You are very intelligent about your answer you would have a better shot going for the 50/50.But once they figured out what you were doing it would be back to 33%.So you would have to make one big bet or just a couple after that it would be no good again?

RTP,Anytime you have the time to post them, I and I am sure plenty others would love to read them.Thank You

Lookin in , Since your one of my favorite posters i'll give you one !

There was a guy named Chico who was connected in Cicero , he was half Italian & Mexican . He had a bad reputation and it was warranted all over , he would shoot you and was Harry Alemans cousin .

Chico really liked me because I could shoot good pool and wasn't a sissy when it came to fighting , so we ended up becoming good friends and I use to hustle in his bar named the Big Q ( YES CHICO BET HORSES ) I would hustle pool in there and Chico would cheat customers anyway he could with cards or dice .

One night Chico is playing cards with a tough southern guy named Don Gibson and they are both cheating each other and finally they get into an arguement and Chico runs behind the bar to get the gun and Gibson runs out of the bar and gets in his car because he knows Chico will shoot him . Chico runs outside and is standing in the middle of the street with the gun and Gibson just floors his car and runs over him and then just to make sure he's dead backs up over him and then forward again !!

I knew nothing about this and the next day I went to visit another friend who got hurt at SPK during a stampede and Chico's wife was standing in front of my friends room and right away says Phil i'm glad you came and i'm thinking what the hell is she talking about !!! I walk in the room and Chico is laying in one bed and my friend tall Al is in the other bed . I then found out from Chico's lady what happened and it looks like he is dying and you could even see tire tracks on his stomach . He see's me and grabs my hand ( this is like a movie but true ) He says to me promise me you will get Gibson for me and I don't know what to say , but it seems like its his dying request to me his good friend so I say OK i'll handle it !! I naturally had no intention to do so , but it made him happy . I then left the room and the doctor came and told me and Ellen that he will be OK because he doesn't even have a broken bone in his body and the doc said I guess its because the fat absorbed the damage and its like a miracle !!

It took two years and Gibson was found dead in a trunk in Cinncinati .

Chico also ended up getting killed in his car in front of the next bar he bought after he came back from the track and unfortunately he gave a guy a ride back and he also was killed . They never really found the killers . It had nothing to do with Gibson though ! He just did some people wrong I guess .

RTP

It was dangerous times back then i'm glad i had just got married awhile back and had given up that life or it could have been me in the passenger seat . We always went to the track together when he went in one car .

Is the whip cup the pea under the 3 cups?If so, that's what I fell for on the 54 Cicero Bus.I had a job, I was probaly 17 and I liked to gamble, so I was the perfect sucker.I was coming home from my job at Goldblatts.One guy held the game and another guy was playing. I couldn't keep my eyes off this game. Naturally, the guy playing was cleaning up and I'm thinking easy money, so I said can I play?Sure bro..Anyhoo, to make a long story short, I got my clock cleaned and I couldn't figure out why.I was crushed...The "winner" got off the bus with me at 63rd street, and said something like, tough break kid and then he told me he was going to buy a new pair of shoes with his "winnings".I don't remember how I figured out it was a scam, but I only played it once.Lesson learned....

You are very intelligent about your answer you would have a better shot going for the 50/50.But once they figured out what you were doing it would be back to 33%.So you would have to make one big bet or just a couple after that it would be no good again?

No doubt thats a one and done thing......maybe bet $10 and they let you win 3 straight and then bet $100......if you hit the 50/50 youre up $130 if you lose your down $70......gettin almost 2 to 1 on a 50/50 shot......not worth gettin your legs broke over though

Is the whip cup the pea under the 3 cups?If so, that's what I fell for on the 54 Cicero Bus.I had a job, I was probaly 17 and I liked to gamble, so I was the perfect sucker.I was coming home from my job at Goldblatts.One guy held the game and another guy was playing. I couldn't keep my eyes off this game. Naturally, the guy playing was cleaning up and I'm thinking easy money, so I said can I play?Sure bro..Anyhoo, to make a long story short, I got my clock cleaned and I couldn't figure out why.I was crushed...The "winner" got off the bus with me at 63rd street, and said something like, tough break kid and then he told me he was going to buy a new pair of shoes with his "winnings".I don't remember how I figured out it was a scam, but I only played it once.Lesson learned....

No thats the shell game but very similar,The whip cup is what you mind find in taverns for shake a day or horses or ship captain & crew.Ive never seen white people play the shell game only blacks.But if theres money to be made im sure whites to it also!!!

For the life of me, I could not remember that it was called the shell game.(must be gettin old )Well, the two players that I played with were black(I'm white) and now that I think about it, every time I saw it being played on the bus, it was mostly black guys. Interesting....

For the life of me, I could not remember that it was called the shell game.(must be gettin old )Well, the two players that I played with were black(I'm white) and now that I think about it, every time I saw it being played on the bus, it was mostly black guys. Interesting....

That game is totally impossible because at times the pea is not under either shell.

I tried to become a shell game mechanic, and got close to good.........but not good enough to go "onstage". My buddy, however Tommy P. a very skinny anemic white kid about 24 mastered the art and made a decent living in the Bay Area of San Francisco from 1977 -1990.

The pea is actually not a hard object, which is the biggest secret of that game. Secondly, the platform it is played on has to have some cushion, or "give" to it. These two factors enable you to squeeze the ball and "snip" it under the other shell while the suckers eye is on the obvious one.

We played with 3 shells, some use only two. But after showing the pea going under the center shell, and circling the shells around a few times, you stop. Only the very last movement of the 3 shells in a straight line forward and backward is when the "magic" takes place. That is when the operator slides the pea out of the back side of the cup when pushing that cup forward, and when it rolls out of the cup, you use the 3rd and 4th digits on your hand to pinch it, and then move it to another cup. Again, the cushion (usually folded newspapers) and the density of the pea must be just perfect to allow this to go unnoticed by the suckers.

Tommy was 6'1" and weighed about 140 lbs. So most that played just played small $ thinking he was sickley (which he was). And donated to the scam, and moved on. Tommy also had a gorgeous girlfriend who ended up doing cosmetic modeling in Los Angeles for Procter&Gamble, and Revlon.

Is the whip cup the pea under the 3 cups?If so, that's what I fell for on the 54 Cicero Bus.I had a job, I was probaly 17 and I liked to gamble, so I was the perfect sucker.I was coming home from my job at Goldblatts.One guy held the game and another guy was playing. I couldn't keep my eyes off this game. Naturally, the guy playing was cleaning up and I'm thinking easy money, so I said can I play?Sure bro..Anyhoo, to make a long story short, I got my clock cleaned and I couldn't figure out why.I was crushed...The "winner" got off the bus with me at 63rd street, and said something like, tough break kid and then he told me he was going to buy a new pair of shoes with his "winnings".I don't remember how I figured out it was a scam, but I only played it once.Lesson learned....

I appreciate your honesty. Most people do not like admitting they got clipped, but if truth were known, that is how most of us got our street education. As to the WhipCup, its a cup that doesnt have the proper interior, and that allows a mechanic to manipulate the shaved dice. They became popular after magnetic dice went the way of the buggy whip!

King , You got it Louis always wore a 3/4 length leather ! Louis love bar room brawls too and handled himself pretty well . Louis and I use to drink all night together and bullshit with the women we were with just sitting there bored .

RTP

Yeah Phil i vaguely remember the guy because he was usually around.If i knew was he was a scuff i would have definately talked to him a lot more.But from what i remember he was pretty quiet and kept to himself...but he was always around.

Phil,I first heard of Chico when another pool player I know played Chico pool and beat Chico for about $700 and when it was time for Chico to pay the guy,Chico wrote him a check for a $1000 and wanted $300 change.

Then i really dont know how long after that i beat Chico for $1400 and he gave me $5-600 and let me leave his bar.I was told from several people how lucky i was to get out of his bar with any money at all including mine.They told me that i was the only guy they heard of getting out of his bar with any of his money.

Phil,I first heard of Chico when another pool player I know played Chico pool and beat Chico for about $700 and when it was time for Chico to pay the guy,Chico wrote him a check for a $1000 and wanted $300 change.

Then i really dont know how long after that i beat Chico for $1400 and he gave me $5-600 and let me leave his bar.I was told from several people how lucky i was to get out of his bar with any money at all including mine.They told me that i was the only guy they heard of getting out of his bar with any of his money.

That is true he didn't like to lose !!

I borrowed him 1400 once and we were friends and I had to almost fight him to get paid back . He was just that way !! But still a big time friend .

I also got taken at Arlington Park by THE LEMON DROP KID the 2nd....I was STOOPID

I got hustled by some smooth talkers but i was young at the time,thats my excuse!!!

I been cheated playing cards,dice and many other things but thats all part of learning !!

One time i was cheating in a black jack game holding out a card,I would have 3 cards to start each hand and thats a big advantage.But one time i was holding out a blue card and they changed decks and i put the blue card over a red card and politely excused myself and left hurriedly.