Also, based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

rustypouch:So holding women accountable for their actions, especially when they don't jive with their stated beliefs, is a bad thing?

Do you even own a calendar? That is utterly unforgivable, sexist, hateful and shows you as a shibboleth and a fascist! You have to admit, though, that feminism - or what's being sold under that label lately - DOES have one amazing app. "If you do not completely agree with every single statement I make and any assertions I have plainly stated to be nothing more than undeniable truth, it only serves to reveal YOU as a hate mongering, oppressive, reprehensible sonofab*tch who puts puppies on spikes and sells 9 year old girls for crack money, and you are probably scared some strong, enlightened woman will cut your peepee off!" If nothing else, you have to admit that the ostensible moral high ground is a tidy back forty. It's beauty of talking point ideology.

KhamanV:WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson. You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it. You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships! It's not a perfect system for everyone). People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers. It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa. That sorta sucks. That's unfair. I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you. They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.

You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.Much higher rate of suicide.Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.

In any case, eow exactly do you know what it's like to be me? Check your privilege, sister. Check your privilege.

Nobody wants equality; everyone wants advantage.The only time you hear anyone talk about equality is when they themselves don't feel that they have advantage.

You wanna knock me down and be on top? Fine. I can understand and respect that. Just be up front about it, and don't hide behind some bullshiat "social justice" movement.You care about true equality about as much as I do.

Car_Ramrod:I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.

Maybe you should try talking to people in a non-condescending manner and consider the fact that most of us Neanderthals who are still living in the dark ages haven't been indoctrinated with years of third-wave feminist dogma. You can't use the same conversation style with us retards as you do in your gender studies class. You seem very badly to want us to change, but you're not quite smart enough to understand that you can't get people to change by belittling their experiences or mocking everything they say.

foxyshadis:What I'm saying is, there are loud crazy people who associate themselves with all movements.

"Meanwhile, our little house was packed with women fleeing their violent partners - sometimes as many as 56 mothers and children in four rooms. All had terrible stories, but I recognised almost immediately that not all the women were innocent. Some were as violent as the men, and violent towards their children.

I was determined to try to break the chain of violence. But as the local newspaper picked up the story of our house, I grew worried about a very different threat. I knew that the radical feminist movement was running out of national support because more sensible women had shunned their anti-male, anti-family agenda. Not only were they looking for a cause, they also wanted money. In 1974, the women living in my refuge organised a meeting in our local church hall to encourage other groups to open refuges across the country. We were astonished and frightened that many of the radical lesbian and feminist activists that I had seen in the collectives attended. They began to vote themselves into a national movement across the country. After a stormy argument, I left the hall with my abused mothers - and what I had most feared happened. In a matter of months, the feminist movement hijacked the domestic violence movement, not just in Britain, but internationally. Our grant was given to them and they had a legitimate reason to hate and blame all men. They came out with sweeping statements which were as biased as they were ignorant. "All women are innocent victims of men's violence," they declared. They opened most of the refuges in the country and banned men from working in them or sitting on their governing committees.

When, in the mid-Eighties, I published Prone To Violence, about my work with violence-prone women and their children, I was picketed by hundreds of women from feminist refuges, holding placards which read: "All men are bastards" and "All men are rapists". Because of violent threats, I had to have a police escort around the country.

In 1990, Harriet Harman (who became a Cabinet minister), Anna Coote (who became an adviser to Labour's Minister for Women) and Patricia Hewitt (yes, she's in the Labour Cabinet, too!) expressed their beliefs in a social policy paper called The Family Way. It said: "It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life, or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social harmony and cohesion." It was a staggering attack on men and their role in modern life. Hewitt, in a book by Geoff Dench called Transforming Men published in 1995, said: "But if we want fathers to play a full role in their children's lives, then we need to bring men into the playgroups and nurseries and the schools. And here, of course, we hit the immediate difficulty of whether we can trust men with children." In 1998, however, the Home Office published a historic study which stipulated that men as well as women could be victims of domestic violence. With that report in my hand, I tried to reason with Joan Ruddock, who was then Minister for Women. The figures for battered men were "minuscule" she insisted and she continued to refer to men only as "perpetrators". ... I look back with sadness to my young self and my vision that there could be places where people - men, women and children who have suffered physical and sexual abuse - could find help, and if they were violent could be given a second chance to learn to live peacefully. I believe that vision was hijacked by vengeful women who have ghetto-ised the refuge movement and used it to persecute men. Surely the time has come to challenge this evil ideology and insist that men take their rightful place in the refuge movement. We need an inclusive movement that offers support to everyone that needs it. As for me - I will always continue to work with anyone who needs my help or can help others - and yes, that includes men." -- Erin Pizzey, a woman I deeply respect for her work on the field of domestic violence. What she fails to mention is she eventually had to leave the country after her young grandchildren started reciving death threats. Her dog was murdered on Christmas Day.

There is a difference between "a few nut jobs" and a determined group of people who actually manage to have a negative effect on society.

I'm sorry, but as long as the more moderate feminists continue to fail to call out and remove the more radical members of their movement, especially transphobic radfems like Cathy Brennan, I will not call myself a part of it. I'm tired of NAFALT.

Car_Ramrod:So you're saying misogyny is no longer an issue in this country?

No. I'm saying that misogyny, misandry, dime store racist bullsh*t and every other bad idea are no longer an issue in any country, but no longer an issue anywhere on the planet. I'm saying they are commodities that have been around for f*cking ever and a great way to keep people who desperately need somebody to hate and blame who is within reach, and not in an ivory tower, well in line and fighting each other for bread. And that they work like a charm. Feminism is one more good idea that met most of it's stated goals early on and got whored out like everything else does that wants to survive, because nothing survives unless it moves money around and the goals stopped being the point a long time ago.

The best part of this is that, as victimhood is stretched like a K-Mart tarp, further and further to cover everybody on earth who isn't white and a man, the only people being called upon to "fix" it is those damn oppressive white men. How? Simple. "Move the f*ck out of the way and give us all your sh*t!" That's not fixing injustice, that's a jack. The wealthy and powerful have learned centuries ago that to manage the serfs, you need to give them bread and keep them assured that they are the source of each other's misery. What better way to divide and conquer than do set up a border war between the two halves of the most basic equation on earth? Y'all can guzzle this Kool Aid until they etch the name of the Kool Aid salesman into headstone. I've seen this movie and it's a loop.

WhippingBoy:You're right, but you missed some of the following privileges:

A greater likelihood of ending up homeless.Much higher rate of suicide.Much greater likelihood that I'll be expected to actually fight in a war.More opportunities for intense physical jobs that will slowly destroy my body and send me to an early grave.Presumed guilty until proven innocent in domestic disputes.

In any case, eow exactly do you know what it's like to be me? Check your privilege, sister. Check your privilege.

Well as long as any loose definition proffered by any woman anywhere on earth is etched in stone and, eventually, it's my fault. Feminism isn't anything anymore on any level that promotes anything resembling social justice. It started out as a very useful, long overdue and worthwhile social movement and it is now a T-Shirt, a board game, a handful of hate filled screeds full of gymnastically stated and self-promoting ideological venom, and mostly, an industry. It moves money around. And when those trying to promote global feminism pack up the manifesto and move en masse to countries where women really are treated like chattel and brood mares and dirt beneath the feet of men and start slapping the sh*t out of the people who treat them that way, I'll resubscribe. Until then all of the repetitive pissing and moaning from a tastefully decorated 3 B/R flat over a lattè and a MacBook Air is just that.

KhamanV:Begoggle: KhamanV: Begoggle: Elegy: Elvis_Bogart: Maybe they couldn't any of the Women's Studies professors to shave for the photos.

Limited pool of availability and all of that....[i.imgur.com image 300x246]

How many men in the Men's Studies program?Oh that doesn't exist.So 8:0 that's an infinite ratio.

WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? Won't someone please think about the men?!

I'm the libbiest lib that ever libbed, but my point wasn't to act like men are oppressed, my point was that this whiny college chick has created a bogus argument.

Fair enough from the point of statistics, but the point of overeager social justice would like to mention that many general course loads are men's studies. :P Sort of like the 'lol why no white history month?' Because we got the other 11 months, the bulk of entertainment television, the bulk of video games, movies, etc, etc, etc... it's wearying to see.

Well start producing your own tv shows and write your own video games. You can do whatever you want. Just quit whining.

I think the important part is that we remember that the reason we don't have a pot to piss in or are miserable and unappreciated and ill used is the fault of that white / black / yellow / brown / male / female / straight / gay / smart / stupid / middle class / poor person up the road. I know this is a fact because a rich person told me and rich people know everything.

Car_Ramrod:based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.

KhamanV:Ask Christians and their myriad of denominations with differing beliefs under one umbrella. Ask conservatives or liberals or Muslims. Ask atheists. Umbrella groups with differing systems where, even if they don't agree on everything and some of it is really farked up, they're stronger in large numbers.

Meanwhile, stop derailing the issue with semantic diversions about the name and look again at the issues. Ramrod's listed several times issues that every put upon white dude in this thread has pulled up - depression, the draft, children, the doofus syndrome, getting killed for Uncle Sam, and every issue is something that feminism is trying to work on, to the benefit of men as well.

What is the goddamn farking problem?

At this point, it's rhetorical.

Forget it, Car_Ramrod. It's Chinatown.

The main problem is that Car_Ramrod keeps vocally insisting that his view of feminism is the One True Feminism, and that using a term like humanism to describe the bettering of all humanity is wrong, while feminism obviously makes more sense. In bizarro land. The splintering of Feminism has caused as much "You're not helping" problems as the Westboro Baptist Church and Ted Haggard, to use your own analogy; maybe you should think twice about whether you really want to be associated and co-opted by the most extreme fringe elements.

As long as Car_Ramrod wants to argue about the true meaning of feminism and why it must be called feminism and not anything else, because no one else has problems that feminism can't fix, I'll push back.

Now as for you, can you explain how feminism is trying to work on any problems? Individuals advocate, charities advocate, vague ideals do not advocate. Stop mixing them up. Individuals do good work both under the feminism banner and outside of it.

Car_Ramrod:foxyshadis: Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.

The same reason there are advocacy groups for thousands of different groups of people, whether they be gender specific, race specific, vocation specific, age specific, medical diagnosis specific, etc. Eliminating everything and instituting a humanist approach sounds awesome, but it ignores the fact that not everyone goes through life with the same challenges. Humanism is a good thing, and people should strive to make everyone's life better, but to ignore the need for specific advocacy is to ignore inequality. You don't need to eliminate humanism to value feminism.

But the point is that feminism is meaningless, because there is no one feminism. There are tens of thousands of different feminisms, from feminists who believe their job is well done to feminists who believe men are evil and sex is rape, and everything in between. It's no longer a thing, it's just an empty word that means whatever anyone wants it to mean, and due to the lack of any definition, there's no possible way to have a discussion about it. 90% of the discussion is always about what it is, not useful things like steps to move forward, or applicability to modern life, and so on.

Why even bother using the word, in that case? Why not pick another label to ascribe your actual beliefs, instead of using a label that is a huge umbrella that covers both your actual beliefs and beliefs you find abhorrent?

Car_Ramrod:WhippingBoy: Car_Ramrod: I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.

Maybe you should try talking to people in a non-condescending manner and consider the fact that most of us Neanderthals who are still living in the dark ages haven't been indoctrinated with years of third-wave feminist dogma. You can't use the same conversation style with us retards as you do in your gender studies class. You seem very badly to want us to change, but you're not quite smart enough to understand that you can't get people to change by belittling their experiences or mocking everything they say.

I must disagree with the idea I've been condescending. I have not once belittled anyone's experiences. I've repeatedly said that feminism doesn't think that the lives of white males are perfect, nor that the inherent biases in society affect all men (or women for that matter) equally. I've also tried to put forth the idea that feminism doesn't fault every male for these biases. All I've said is that these biases exist, and statistically, the average man has an advantage the average woman does not have. Or, to be more accurate, I suppose, the average man does not have the societal obstacles that the average woman has. I've ALSO repeatedly said that some of the goals of feminism are to reduce the biases that happen to favor women over men (like domestic violence, child custody, physically demanding jobs, etc). This SHOULD show why feminism is a good thing for both genders. Somehow, it just gets laughed at or dismissed.

Meanwhile my points have been called bullshiat with no supporting argument as to why, you claim I'm indoctrinated, and that I must've been involved in gender studies classes, that I'm stupid and condescending. I'm trying to be as level headed as ...

The people you're trying to reach don't feel that they've had any undue advantages or lack of societal obstacles. Or at least they feel that the advantages that they've encountered are balanced by different advantages given to other people that they themselves did not receive. So you point out some very real examples of these perceived advantages. And then "we" point out some very real examples of what we perceive to be (balancing) disadvantages. Rather than acknowledging these disadvantages, they're summarily and condescendingly discounted (basically any man who dares to complain about anything is lumped into the dreaded "MRA" crowd, and his concerns are only worthy of mockery). I've struggled, sweated, bled and sacrificed for (almost) all of the "advantages" I have in my life. The message I'm getting is that that's "no big deal" because everything must have been so easy for me. If you can't see how that's condescending, I don't know what to say.

Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on *you* personally. It's just that you're spouting the same tired, bigoted dogma that I've heard a 1000 times before.

foxyshadis:Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.

If you had read the bullshiat article he keeps posting you would know that "humanist" supposedly trivializes the living hell we force on our women. It also goes on to say that the feminists have our best interests in mind anyway. There is no need to fight specifically for the rights of all people, because all problems are because of TEH PATRIARCHY!

The Greatest Generation is dying off, and gays are getting civil rights. People get more greedy and inflexible as they age, news at 11. Consider this my big shrug.

Quinsisdos:There is a difference between "a few nut jobs" and a determined group of people who actually manage to have a negative effect on society.

I'm sorry, but as long as the more moderate feminists continue to fail to call out and remove the more radical members of their movement, especially transphobic radfems like Cathy Brennan, I will not call myself a part of it. I'm tired of NAFALT.

My impression is that there no longer is a "feminist" movement, but rather a number of competing movements and ideologies all competing to call themselves "feminism". Even back in the beginning, that was true, but now more than ever they're splintered all over the map and trying to co-opt a powerful name. It's hard to call someone out when you're not even sure that they're speaking the same language as you, but I do see pretty epic battles in everything from online forums to academic papers regarding what Feminism is and isn't.

Crazy misandrists have insulated themselves from the rest of the world as much as any echo chamber, and I seriously think that the media focuses on them as the most lurid, tabloid-worthy examples, rather than showing the wide range of competing ideas. Doubly so for the Daily Fail, which is basically a tool of oppression and exploitation of anyone and everyone but wealthy non-celebrities. They do exist, and you will run into them if you're involved in social justice no matter how hard Thaetetus pretends they've never existed, but they're still just one portion. Tribalism is just rampant everywhere in social discourse these days.

Maybe the time has come to get rid of the word. Can't we go back to being humanists rather than continually redefining feminism? This country was founded partially by secular humanists, after all, and "humanism" perfectly sums up equality of opportunity for all.

Car_Ramrod:I'm here trying to talk about what I feel is the role of feminism in America today. I've linked and quoted an article that I feel makes some very strong points, and I'm trying to engage in conversation with people that seem very hostile to the very idea of feminism existing today.

Car_Ramrod:And for not giving a fark, you seem to be posting quite a bit.

So, "gotcha"? I think you misunderstand me. I give a f*ck about the "topic" to the degree it deserves. It's your endless posture of "see how calm and straightforward I am" smug horsehs*it that I don't give a f*ck about. Not should I. You spout endless rehashed dime store bogeyman bullsh*t and act like you're trying to change the world and your pure intent is unquestionable because you are not a woman. But at the end of the day, it's just devise rhetoric with a template more shopworn that a greasy rag. And you expected nothing other than your reedy opprobrium to degenerate into a snotty remark exchange once you found a suitable sucker. Neither did I. You just f*cked up the last bit. : ) Have fun shtotmin' da castle! You're a posturing prat and you can't blame that one me because I noticed.

All you big time, infallible ideologists who bravely suffer the indignities of trying to enlighten those who don't buy what you're selling, I have a PSA.

The *second* you get all snotty, arrogant, condescending, dismissive and start blowing dime store bullsh*t at the people you are disagreeing with, you have officially -

Dicked the dog, pissed in the petunias and generally tun out of sh*t to say and, bonus...

and any credible facets of your alleged argument are out behind the dumpster blowing sailors of Marlboros and pints of SoCo. This is here your roll your eyes more and I shut off your misunderstood martyr malarkey because, frankly, it's been done better.

bunner:Slam1263: Things I have not done in my life:Been part of the 'Good old boys network".Kept the brothers down.Kept the women in their place.Discriminated against anyone based on; Skin color, sex, age, gender, physical abilities, or religious affiliation.

You think that, but you have benefited endlessly from the Caucasian patriarchy in every aspect of your existence and that construct exists purely to oppress the groups you mentioned, and so, your personal life and every aspect of it and your conscionable behavior are moot, meaningless, a lie and an affront to the oppressed. No, seriously. Somebody on a campus somewhere is saying this with a straight face as we speak. It's called "rectitude by implied moral piety and moral high ground kidnapping." The only way to overcome it is to realize that your watching people who are ramping up to die over who has to pick up a pair of dirty socks off the floor. After that, the world gets a lot less urgent. It still smells like the ass end of a goat, but it's less puzzling.

Oh, don't I know it.

I ran afoul of my WS's teacher back in 1994. She didn't like me to correct her about anything, especially in writing, as I didn't think it was proper to do so in class.

Keep hating men, it never gets old, and it never turns off the audience.

What have I said that insinuates I'm a self-hating misandrist?

Case in point: STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Simply pointing out the fallacies in your argument, is taking as hate.

I for one, love women. If it wasn't for one, I would not be here. Nor would I have the passion for equality that I do. Mom was a radical back when they actually tried to better humanity, rather than just a slogan.

KhamanV: It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod: 2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.

Amen, sibling, Amen.

I am 50 years-old. I appear to be white. I am male.

Things I have not done in my life:

Been part of the 'Good old boys network".Kept the brothers down.Kept the women in their place.Discriminated against anyone based on; Skin color, sex, age, gender, physical abilities, or religious affiliation.

But, even after spending a youth campaigning for equal rights, I run up against the bias against those of us who appear to be white males. To every hate group out there, I am just another oppressor.

I know, some how, by discriminating against men born after 1950, it levels the playing field. In some way, maybe, perhaps.

/yes, I still hold open doors for others//just because special rightist's///harbor enough hate for all of us

Car_Ramrod:umad: You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

So you think the poster was insinuating that you benefit from every single societal norm that statistically favors men, and they think your life should be perfect? That's reading a lot into it.

God you're an idiot. The poster was insinuating that we are incapable of even recognizing a single societal norm that statistically favors men simply because we are men. It is only reading what she wrote into it. Why are you white knighting for her anyway? Don't you think she is a big girl and can defend herself?

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

Which part, and why?

All of it. It is obviously horseshiat because they don't say a word about things that benefit women over men. You know, the things that have been mentioned by other men in this thread like suicide rates, on the job fatalities, longer prison sentences for the same crimes, the travesty that is our family court system etc. If you really care about benefitting men as well then you would be just as vocal about those issues as you are about the old standbyes.

STOP BEING DEFENSIVE. This is where the "man hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

This is also where the "woman hating" thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are just returning the favor.

bunner:Car_Ramrod: So you're saying misogyny is no longer an issue in this country?

No. I'm saying that misogyny, misandry, dime store racist bullsh*t and every other bad idea are no longer an issue in any country, but no longer an issue anywhere on the planet. I'm saying they are commodities that have been around for f*cking ever and a great way to keep people who desperately need somebody to hate and blame who is within reach, and not in an ivory tower, well in line and fighting each other for bread. And that they work like a charm. Feminism is one more good idea that met most of it's stated goals early on and got whored out like everything else does that wants to survive, because nothing survives unless it moves money around and the goals stopped being the point a long time ago.

I'm curious as to what you think were the stated goals of feminism that were met early on. And when they were met.

KhamanV: It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod: 2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.

No one is attacking you, dude, or saying your life is perfect. All that's being said is that there are undeniable biases set in society that statistically favor men over women. They might not affect you specifically, and thus might not even be aware they exist, so you think it's all bullshiat.

You see these words that I highlighted? Nothing of the sort was included in her post.

The point of feminism is to remove those general biases so the average woman has the same opportunities to succeed, or fail, as an average man. There's no reason to be all upset about it. And if you actually read about the goals of feminism, they benefit men as well. A patriarchal society does tend to put undue pressures on men, which lead to all sorts of other problems.

Horseshiat. Just pure horseshiat.

So stop being defensive, try to understand where other people are coming from, and your life just might get better as well.

I am a white man and as such I am incapable of understanding where other people are coming from. My life of privilege makes such a thing impossible.

sure haven't:Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.

THIS. Enough about misogyny. What's really important here is that the triumphs and travails of white men aren't celebrated every minute of every day.

KhamanV:WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson. You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it. You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships! It's not a perfect system for everyone). People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers. It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa. That sorta sucks. That's unfair. I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you. They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.

KhamanV:It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

That is condescending as all hell and you know it. You know exactly what my life is like but I can't possibly fathom yours. Just fark off.

Car_Ramrod:2) "The life of every white male isn't perfect, so why should people be trying to remove the built-in societal biases that statistically favor white men over other groups?"

Do whatever the fark you want. Just don't expect any help from me. I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and be called an asshole for events that I have had zero control over.

If I Admit That 'Hating Men' Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?

If you "break down and admit" something, would you stop acting like it's insulting that you should even have to admit it and then somehow manage to immediately state, "well, it's all men's fault anyway" like something deeply meaningful just happened? So far, my best guess is "*tsk* whut UVER!"

CleanAndPure:Women outnumber men. If they are being oppressed in this day and age with numerical superiority... larger numbers being educated... laws tipped in their favour... all the extra advantages...

Well that just makes them a bunch of pussies.

Seriously... There are so many social injustices these days... and so many legitimate things to grieve about. Feminism and this feeling of being a victim of sexism in this day and age makes no sense. (For 99% of population that is).

Many of the "social injustices" in the world directly relate to being female. Someone constantly screaming "sexism" because they were hit on a bar isn't the same as demanding equal rights for both genders. Maybe you're just thinking about the U.S.

Women outnumber men. If they are being oppressed in this day and age with numerical superiority... larger numbers being educated... laws tipped in their favour... all the extra advantages...

Well that just makes them a bunch of pussies.

Seriously... There are so many social injustices these days... and so many legitimate things to grieve about. Feminism and this feeling of being a victim of sexism in this day and age makes no sense. (For 99% of population that is).

bunner:rustypouch: So if life for white men is so great, how come they have a suicide rate ten times that of black women?

Obviously the guilt they feel for actively promoting the flawed, oppressive patriarchy becomes too much to bear. No, seriously, somewhere on some campus someplace somebody is saying this with a completely straight face.

No no. A sheltered, white, middle-class 21 year old female gender studies student knows all about how the world works. Who are you to say otherwise?

KhamanV:WhippingBoy: Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson. You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it. You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships! It's not a perfect system for everyone). People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers. It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa. That sorta sucks. That's unfair. I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you. They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.

So if life for white men is so great, how come they have a suicide rate ten times that of black women?

WhippingBoy:Feminism has taught me that I should be ashamed to be a white man. I think I'm going to "accidentally" crush the ol' cobblers in some sort of industrial accident.

/I hate myself

You got the wrong lesson. You have nothing to be ashamed of; you got lucky - you're in a great place where many people are going to subconciously think better of you even if you do absolutely nothing about it. You're less likely to be passed over for jobs, you'll find it easier to get loans (nothing for free and you will have hardships! It's not a perfect system for everyone). People will look to you for ideals of how they picture Jesus and popular action heroes and what they'll put on video game covers. It's pretty cool, actually, and it's going to make a ton of shiat easier for you that you could in all likelihood never have to think about. It's totally under your radar because it's just how life is for you.

All anyone without that privilege - another color, another gender - wants is for you to take a moment when you see something go a different way for someone else when it wouldn't have for you and go "Whoa. That sorta sucks. That's unfair. I just want whoever that is to be treated like me."

Nobody wants to take the privilege of being a white dude away from you. They just want to make it a little easier being born a different way.

KhamanV:sure haven't: Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.

Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against.

How many thousand years of recorded human history? How many space flights, world changing inventions, wars, and packet saddled electrons whizzing around on beams of light? And we're still all f*cked up about who has a hoo haw or a wang dang? Stick a fork in it. As a culture, we couldn't run a dry cleaners without it turning into a whine festival.

sure haven't:Car_Ramrod: based upon what I've read thus far, I'm sure this thread is going to be filled with the usual wonderful "ha ha, I'm joking about misogyny but I'm not really joking" that makes Fark such a wonderful place.

Should we make a thread about the "dumb white man" trope that persists in every. single. advertising. medium. on earth?

Cause that one never gets old.Oh look, the stupid incompetent child-man father cut the grass with that old rusted mower, now his eternally patien highly intelligent wife needs to take him to home depot to a sale only she heard about.

Which is actually an argument against patriarchy and the sort of thing actual feminists fight against - bullshiat gender roles based on bullshiat concepts perpetrated throughout bullshiat history, all there to help men not get that sort of doofus Chevy Chase stereotype bullshiat either. Crazy, I know.