To play devil's advocate: I must admit that the more I read about the remarkable power of the placebo effect, the more relaxed I feel about homeopathy when prescribed for those minor but troubling ailments which don't seem to respond to real treatments. Doctors understandably don't feel comfortable about openly prescribing placebos, but if they can send their patients off for something which makes them feel better and does no harm, at a low cost, that has some attractions. Damn sight better than just prescribing antibiotics which they know won't work, anyway.

But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

To play devil's advocate: I must admit that the more I read about the remarkable power of the placebo effect, the more relaxed I feel about homeopathy when prescribed for those minor but troubling ailments which don't seem to respond to real treatments. Doctors understandably don't feel comfortable about openly prescribing placebos, but if they can send their patients off for something which makes them feel better and does no harm, at a low cost, that has some attractions. Damn sight better than just prescribing antibiotics which they know won't work, anyway.

Michael Marshall was on live at 8:35ish. There is a video on facebook - I expect it will be on youtube at some point - will keep an eye out for it.

There's a good bit where Peter Fisher (on a video link) was blurbing on about OTC remedies actually having some ingredients and the camera cut back to Marshall shaking his head in frustration.

I have to say that Fisher had a pretty desperate look about him - as if he could see his world about to fall apart.

Brian1945 wrote:But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

I was at a sitp once given by a retired surgeon about sCAM and these points were made.

The speaker (sorry can't remember his name) said that quite a few non-sCAM doctors were concerned about the trend towards EBM as they felt that they should have the freedom to prescribe or advise what they felt best under the circumstances and shouldn't be restricted to only EBM.

A young trainee doctor said that under some circumstances (probably someone with nothing actually wrong with them) she might say something like... "You might like to think about a homeopathic treatment. It is controversial and I'm not going to prescribe it and I personally don't see that it can work but many people swear by it".

The problem is that they get cancer and say "Thanks, Doc - the Homeopathy worked perfectly - much better than your allopathic stuff. I'm going to take Fairydust 30c instead of chemo".

Insofar as it's a question of the government regulating the medical profession (which is to say it's not just a "socialized medicine" issue with the NHS in the UK), why should homeopathy be legal at all anywhere?

Brian1945 wrote:But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

Yes, I can see that. It's just a pity that there doesn't seem to be any non-woo form of cheap and harmless "treatment" involving the personal care and attention which I think is at the heart of the placebo effect, and which doctors don't have the time to give.

Brian1945 wrote:But once you give a treatment the aura of effectiveness and respectability which NHS use confers, it opens the way for the unscrupulous "practitioners" to lure the seriously ill away from real medicine. It's like giving homeopathy an "As recommended by the NHS" rubber stamp.

Yes, I can see that. It's just a pity that there doesn't seem to be any non-woo form of cheap and harmless "treatment" involving the personal care and attention which I think is at the heart of the placebo effect, and which doctors don't have the time to give.

What we need is a space in a all GP surgeries and NHS hospitals set aside for people that need a hug and a back rub (I'm not being sarcastic!).
It does seem that many doctors are knowingly using homeopathy as a placebo. I wonder if they might just prescribe aspirin or eating a banana instead? They could imply some non existent benefit (enough to give a placebo effect?) without propping up a bullshit industry.

"The Good Thinking Society welcomed today’s decision by NHS Liverpool CCG to decommission homeopathy services. The decision comes after months of public consultation which showed overwhelming support from Liverpool residents for an end to funding." (June 14th, 2016.)

By the end of 2014, 104 placebo-controlled homeopathy trials had been published in peer-reviewed journals. Forty-three found homeopathy was effective, five found it ineffective and the remainder were inconclusive, according to the Homeopathy Research Institute. This is comparable with conventional medicine, according to a Cochrane Collaboration analysis.