Well, I read where there is momentum gaining for the Dems to run on single payer in 2018. Medicare for everyone??? Do the American people really believe that completely turning over healthcare to the government is a good idea? Letting the government determine what doctor's can charge, since they will only pay so much (which will probably lead to doctor shortages), letting the government determine what procedures you can and cannot have, not to mention how this is going to be paid for. And what happens when you reach Social Security age when you are no longer an asset to the government (paying into SS) and become a liability (taking out SS). I am so tired of the Democrats pushing their radical agenda to look like the knight on the white horse protecting the downtrodden. There is one thing the Republicans could learn from the Democrats- how to fight for what they believe in. Come on GOP- grow a pair.

They push for 100% in hopes of getting 25%. When they get it, most people sigh in relief and thank their lucky stars because it could've been worse. That's the insidious game they play because they know they will win.

Hell, just ask Texansfan. He will spew for two weeks about how great it will be for him because he can make money from it. People like him are bought off from the outset. Signed, sealed, delivered. That's how it's done.

They push for 100% in hopes of getting 25%. When they get it, most people sigh in relief and thank their lucky stars because it could've been worse. That's the insidious game they play because they know they will win.

Hell, just ask Texansfan. He will spew for two weeks about how great it will be for him because he can make money from it. People like him are bought off from the outset. Signed, sealed, delivered. That's how it's done.

If they'd cut people like his sorry *** off the payroll it would help lower our premiums. They leach needs to get out and find a real job instead of sucking off the ins companies. He will love it along with everyone else with their hand out looking for the gov to take care of them.

Well, I read where there is momentum gaining for the Dems to run on single payer in 2018. Medicare for everyone??? Do the American people really believe that completely turning over healthcare to the government is a good idea? Letting the government determine what doctor's can charge, since they will only pay so much (which will probably lead to doctor shortages), letting the government determine what procedures you can and cannot have, not to mention how this is going to be paid for. And what happens when you reach Social Security age when you are no longer an asset to the government (paying into SS) and become a liability (taking out SS). I am so tired of the Democrats pushing their radical agenda to look like the knight on the white horse protecting the downtrodden. There is one thing the Republicans could learn from the Democrats- how to fight for what they believe in. Come on GOP- grow a pair.

Don't forget the hard working man will be standing in line behind a bunch of loser free loaders to see this new craphole doctor.

If you want to know what that will be like just go find a place that can't turn people away. Sit in the lobby 30 minutes. I dare you.

Don't forget the hard working man will be standing in line behind a bunch of loser free loaders to see this new craphole doctor.

If you want to know what that will be like just go find a place that can't turn people away. Sit in the lobby 30 minutes. I dare you.

That is sense that people like Texansfan just cannot abide. It doesn't matter what the hard working person wants. He can afford to pay more therefore, you should too. It makes him feel good about himself but moreover, he stays employed.

I challenge anyone to show me in our Constitution or Bill of Rights where anyone has a "Right" to healthcare. Like you asked him before: Why stop there? Why not single-payer housing? Or, a free car? Or, a vacation home in The Hamptons? The "feel-good" argument has no end. If we permit one ounce of this Marxist legislation to gain foothold, we are doomed. Look at our education system. That was by design so the rest of this garbage can get steamrolled through with no resistance from the masses.

Letting the government determine what doctor's can charge, since they will only pay so much (which will probably lead to doctor shortages), letting the government determine what procedures you can and cannot have,

1. Y'all complain now about really high doctors bills because the docs are setting their own prices.
So you complain either way.
Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

2. Govt already determines which procedures you can get. Try getting embryonic stem cells to treat any disease. But you can fly to Europe and get it done no problem.

Some of y'all just complain and don't even know what you're complaining about.

If you can't see I just gave you two valid non political based points then I don't know...

If they'd cut people like his sorry *** off the payroll it would help lower our premiums. They leach needs to get out and find a real job instead of sucking off the ins companies. He will love it along with everyone else with their hand out looking for the gov to take care of them.

LoL
I also run analytics to ensure that the 500mg of acetaminophen in that pill of Tylenol you're taking is actually between 498mg and 502mg and also that the dose of 500mg per pill is not toxic for too many ppl (ie it doesn't kill more than 5 people out of 10,000 that take it)

A "real job" huh?

LoL

You're such a socialist
You want "small govt" and want govt out of industry but then you want govt to regulate industry in your favor by trying to supposedly remove my profession from the process?
Did I get that right?

You want to add MORE govt regulation to an already over regulated industry?

Don't forget the hard working man will be standing in line behind a bunch of loser free loaders to see this new craphole doctor.

If you want to know what that will be like just go find a place that can't turn people away. Sit in the lobby 30 minutes. I dare you.

Hard working man
Can you define that?
Is it just because a person swings a shovel in the Texas summer heat that makes him "hard working"????
Do I not work "hard" for my money since I set my own hours and work in an air conditioned office?

I have nearly 20 years experience in my field with ten years of collegiate/post graduate education (and every year I need to continually learn to upgrade my craft).

I've had to work PLENTY of holidays because a system being down (including 4th of July and Memorial day this year).

Craphole doctor?
The same one that will save your life when you go to the ER?
Oh boy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt

That is sense that people like Texansfan just cannot abide. It doesn't matter what the hard working person wants. He can afford to pay more therefore, you should too. It makes him feel good about himself but moreover, he stays employed.

I challenge anyone to show me in our Constitution or Bill of Rights where anyone has a "Right" to healthcare. Like you asked him before: Why stop there? Why not single-payer housing? Or, a free car? Or, a vacation home in The Hamptons? The "feel-good" argument has no end. If we permit one ounce of this Marxist legislation to gain foothold, we are doomed. Look at our education system. That was by design so the rest of this garbage can get steamrolled through with no resistance from the masses.

You're so contradictory it's ridiculous.
You first accuse me of not being for the "common man"
But then in the very next sentence you get mad at me for wanting healthcare for "all men"
Not just those that make above a certain dollar amount.

What you're proposing is that only "hard working" men get access to decent quality health care.
What I'm proposing is that anyone that makes minimum wage be afforded the same health care as those that make $10M per year.

Same set up we have in education now.

Let's say you have a guy like Ken Murphy or Rex Tillerson living in Carlton Woods in the woodlands.
Their kids will go to The Woodlands High School.
On the same token, lil lupita that cleans their house for $10 an hour or serves them donuts at Shipleys may also send her kids to The Woodlands High if she rents a little $800 apartment off Grogans Mill

Now Rex may decide he wants to pay extra and send his kid to The Post Oak school. But that can be the same in healthcare. I don't like the default option, so I'll pay for my own upgraded independent option.

But at least the "hard working man" is afforded the same default quality of life as the aristocrats.

Unless you come from a seriously wealthy family from 200 years ago you too benefited from those "Marxist" policies of the education system.
Did you go to college?
Have any federally backed student loans?
Did you go to a public or private college?
I'm sure you've benefited from "Marxist" policies all around but you're trying to scream them down.

Did you ever take the "mortgage interest deduction" on your taxes?
That's a form of govt welfare, you know.
More govt intrusion in industry.

We have "single payer" k-12 education already.
On average 1.25% of your property value goes to fund the local school district. If you use those schools directly or not.

Many in Houston HISD choose to throw that 1.25% away and send their kids to private schools.

If you make minimum wage, you should be afforded quality preventative medicine and life saving medications.

Minimum wage people and thousands of illegals already get healthcare paid for.
Ever been to an er? Most likely cant find a place to sit....anytime of day. Most likely cant communicate with a large number of them for the language barrier .
I deal with " poor " people everyday. They get plenty of healthcare with no intention of paying for. They call the ambulance all The time because they know it wont cost them anything. Most responsible people may go a lifetime without calling ems because we know there is a cost associated with it and if we need a ride we call a taxi. The problem with the entire obamacare system is that it ****ed up 100% of health insurance for less than 1% of the population. And it did not do that out of compassion......it did it for a lust for power and control.

Minimum wage people and thousands of illegals already get healthcare paid for.
Ever been to an er? Most likely cant find a place to sit....anytime of day. Most likely cant communicate with a large number of them for the language barrier .
I deal with " poor " people everyday. They get plenty of healthcare with no intention of paying for. They call the ambulance all The time because they know it wont cost them anything. Most responsible people may go a lifetime without calling ems because we know there is a cost associated with it and if we need a ride we call a taxi. The problem with the entire obamacare system is that it ****ed up 100% of health insurance for less than 1% of the population. And it did not do that out of compassion......it did it for a lust for power and control.

I specifically said PREVENTATIVE care.
How bout you get your blood pressure treated BEFORE it results in a stroke or heart attack and you go to ER.

How about kids with diabetes get their insulin on time before they go to ER?

HOW about getting that cough treated before it turns into pneumonia.

And y'all still don't get it.
These Republican politicians are not dragging their feet to repeal Obamacare because they have Juan Pedro and Manuel ringing their office phones.

Have you not been hearing what folks at these town halls in Kentucky, West Virginia and Montana have been saying???

They want to keep their Obamacare!!!!!

Obamacare is not being repealed because too many of the voting public are in favor of it.

Simple as that.

Forget what I'm telling you, ask the politicians that aren't 100% on board with Trumpcare why they aren't sold.
Because the REPUBLICAN voters that put them in office are telling them that they want to keep their Obamacare.

Minimum wage people and thousands of illegals already get healthcare paid for.
Ever been to an er? Most likely cant find a place to sit....

Oh and I don't care about illegals getting preventative health care.
But they should get ER care just as if I went to Cancun and got side swiped by a jet ski I'd want Mexico to at least keep me alive long enough to where my American insurance could life flight me back to Houston

I specifically said PREVENTATIVE care.
How bout you get your blood pressure treated BEFORE it results in a stroke or heart attack and you go to ER.

How about kids with diabetes get their insulin on time before they go to ER?

HOW about getting that cough treated before it turns into pneumonia.

And y'all still don't get it.
These Republican politicians are not dragging their feet to repeal Obamacare because they have Juan Pedro and Manuel ringing their office phones.

Have you not been hearing what folks at these town halls in Kentucky, West Virginia and Montana have been saying???

They want to keep their Obamacare!!!!!

Obamacare is not being repealed because too many of the voting public are in favor of it.

Simple as that.

Forget what I'm telling you, ask the politicians that aren't 100% on board with Trumpcare why they aren't sold.
Because the REPUBLICAN voters that put them in office are telling them that they want to keep their Obamacare.

What you dont get is that the poor ( regardless of insurance) will not get preventive care. They are not responsible enough to schedule an appointment. They will ALWAYS go to the ER for their care.
Everyone on earth that happens to be in America get emergency care no questions asked.
And another point, i deal with the poor often and they all say i have no insurance when asked. So either obama care is a farce or it makes my point that the poor are not responsible enough to even sign up for free HC

What you dont get is that the poor ( regardless of insurance) will not get preventive care. They are not responsible enough to schedule an appointment. They will ALWAYS go to the ER for their care.
Everyone on earth that happens to be in America get emergency care no questions asked.
And another point, i deal with the poor often and they all say i have no insurance when asked. So either obama care is a farce or it makes my point that the poor are not responsible enough to even sign up for free HC

You serious?
A persons income determines their. Attendance rate at doctors appointments?

How many doctors appts are missed by kids under 6 on Medicaid vs those on private insurance?

Poor ppl don't go to ER for care for everything
You can't get immunizations in ER.
Your kid doesn't get his insulin pump in ER.
Peds give those out.

Hard working man
Can you define that?
Is it just because a person swings a shovel in the Texas summer heat that makes him "hard working"????
Do I not work "hard" for my money since I set my own hours and work in an air conditioned office?

I have nearly 20 years experience in my field with ten years of collegiate/post graduate education (and every year I need to continually learn to upgrade my craft).

I've had to work PLENTY of holidays because a system being down (including 4th of July and Memorial day this year).

Craphole doctor?
The same one that will save your life when you go to the ER?
Oh boy...

You're so contradictory it's ridiculous.
You first accuse me of not being for the "common man"
But then in the very next sentence you get mad at me for wanting healthcare for "all men"
Not just those that make above a certain dollar amount.

What you're proposing is that only "hard working" men get access to decent quality health care.
What I'm proposing is that anyone that makes minimum wage be afforded the same health care as those that make $10M per year.

Same set up we have in education now.

Let's say you have a guy like Ken Murphy or Rex Tillerson living in Carlton Woods in the woodlands.
Their kids will go to The Woodlands High School.
On the same token, lil lupita that cleans their house for $10 an hour or serves them donuts at Shipleys may also send her kids to The Woodlands High if she rents a little $800 apartment off Grogans Mill

Now Rex may decide he wants to pay extra and send his kid to The Post Oak school. But that can be the same in healthcare. I don't like the default option, so I'll pay for my own upgraded independent option.

But at least the "hard working man" is afforded the same default quality of life as the aristocrats.

Unless you come from a seriously wealthy family from 200 years ago you too benefited from those "Marxist" policies of the education system.
Did you go to college?
Have any federally backed student loans?
Did you go to a public or private college?
I'm sure you've benefited from "Marxist" policies all around but you're trying to scream them down.

Did you ever take the "mortgage interest deduction" on your taxes?
That's a form of govt welfare, you know.
More govt intrusion in industry.

First, you are conflating my words with someone else's because half of what you linked to me was nothing I said. Secondly, I can honestly answer NO to everything Marxist you tried to attach to me. For K-12, it IS a Marxist enterprise by the State and Federal Governments. What you forget is, it too is done at the point of a gun like all things Marxism. We have no choice in the matter; we go to school or our parents go to jail. We cannot opt out of a Marxist system by design. That is how Marxism is propagated. Not through thriving success but by punitive measures and threats. Just because the State or Federal Governments mandate Marxism doesn't make it sustainable or just.

Your analogy of being hit by a Jet Ski in Cancun is laughable. Have you ever tried to get into Mexico?? Do you know what would happen to you if you were found to be in Mexico illegally?!!? You are trying to equate legal tourists and illegal aliens. If that's all you have then, chalk one up for the Constitution.

I also asked to point out where health care is a Right granted to us in our founding documents. I see you neglected to tackle that one.

Don't forget the hard working man will be standing in line behind a bunch of loser free loaders to see this new craphole doctor.

If you want to know what that will be like just go find a place that can't turn people away. Sit in the lobby 30 minutes. I dare you.

You got that right. Also, everyone should just google the Charlie Gard story. European style healthcare at it's best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livin'2hunt

That is sense that people like Texansfan just cannot abide. It doesn't matter what the hard working person wants. He can afford to pay more therefore, you should too. It makes him feel good about himself but moreover, he stays employed.

I challenge anyone to show me in our Constitution or Bill of Rights where anyone has a "Right" to healthcare. Like you asked him before: Why stop there? Why not single-payer housing? Or, a free car? Or, a vacation home in The Hamptons? The "feel-good" argument has no end. If we permit one ounce of this Marxist legislation to gain foothold, we are doomed. Look at our education system. That was by design so the rest of this garbage can get steamrolled through with no resistance from the masses.

When someone begins to claim a right to the services another person must provide, that's essentially claiming that person as a slave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texansfan

I'm not smart.
I just have a heart.
Compassion for the little man.

Government should never be in the business of legislating and forcing compassion from anyone to anyone else. Forced "compassion" breeds indignation and anger.

OK, for all the compassionate people that believe health care is a right and should be available to all free of cost, who and how is this going to be paid for. And what happens when the closest doctor to treat you is an hour drive away because all of the other doctors retired because they were not getting paid by the government what they thought they earned and that person has no car- provide them with a government paid for car or does the government go into the shuttle bus service. We're headed down a slippery slope folks.

OK, for all the compassionate people that believe health care is a right and should be available to all free of cost, who and how is this going to be paid for. And what happens when the closest doctor to treat you is an hour drive away because all of the other doctors retired because they were not getting paid by the government what they thought they earned and that person has no car- provide them with a government paid for car or does the government go into the shuttle bus service. We're headed down a slippery slope folks.

Same way public k-12 schools are paid for
Or Head Start
Do you not know there is a bus that round up vets and takes them to the VA?
This is for VA all over the country.

Dems running on the free health care platform has nothing to do with what it costs nor how it can be executed. it only has to do with getting votes from folks that are scared of loosing their Obama care.

There was once a super smart young man running for 8th grade president. He started campaigning months early.. Spoke of meeting with faculty and getting a better curriculum. He talked of higher grade requirements for sports. Getting GT courses available, etc..

The day before the election, little Suzy decided to run. She gave a speech and said if she was elected, there would be free icecream all day long. She won by a landslide.

Dems running on the free health care platform has nothing to do with what it costs nor how it can be executed. it only has to do with getting votes from folks that are scared of loosing their Obama care.

There was once a super smart young man running for 8th grade president. He started campaigning months early.. Spoke of meeting with faculty and getting a better curriculum. He talked of higher grade requirements for sports. Getting GT courses available, etc..

The day before the election, little Suzy decided to run. She gave a speech and said if she was elected, there would be free icecream all day long. She won by a landslide.

Remove the dems from this
They have nothing to do with this now
When republicans run the house and Senate and can't agree on the issue now what do you have to say????

Well, I read where there is momentum gaining for the Dems to run on single payer in 2018. Medicare for everyone??? Do the American people really believe that completely turning over healthcare to the government is a good idea? Letting the government determine what doctor's can charge, since they will only pay so much (which will probably lead to doctor shortages), letting the government determine what procedures you can and cannot have, not to mention how this is going to be paid for. And what happens when you reach Social Security age when you are no longer an asset to the government (paying into SS) and become a liability (taking out SS). I am so tired of the Democrats pushing their radical agenda to look like the knight on the white horse protecting the downtrodden. There is one thing the Republicans could learn from the Democrats- how to fight for what they believe in. Come on GOP- grow a pair.

Same way education is.
Why is it a "right" for kids to learn about ancient Egypt but not for adults to be cured from pancreatic cancer?

Education IS NOT A RIGHT. It is
M-A-N-D-A-T-E-D. There is a distinct difference. I will ask again for you to show me in our founding documents where education is a Right. Show it to me. I know you won't because you can't.

But why stop there? Let's do free housing and free cars and free vacation homes. Hell, let's use France as the model and go to the 30 hour work week. That's TRUE utopia, right?

I'm calling for a 26year old and a 46 year old top get the same basic health coverage as a 6year old

Why not?

You really want folks to die because they can't afford diabetes medication?

It's a wonderful thing that you have compassion for people, now go take your own money and individually, by yourself, or with a group of like-minded people, under your own impulses and compassion, go and help other individuals pay for their medicines and procedures.

Seriously, when is the last time you helped anyone else by taking your own money, from your own account or pocket, and used it to help another individual? When is the last time you gave to an organization, charity, church, etc, that collects money for the sole purpose of helping someone in need? When is the last time you've done anything generous on your own? That's an honest, sincere question, to which I genuinely want to know the answer.

If you have done that, then good. That's excellent and I applaud your generosity. More people should do that. However, to force anyone to do that under compulsion from forces outside their own convictions is theft. I've got plenty of medical bills sitting in from of me right now, amounting to tens of thousands of dollars. If I force you to pay for my medical bills, then that is me taking money from you by force. That is theft. However, if instead, I use the government to force you to pay a tax to them and then through some convoluted system of government accounting, they pay for it, we call that fair taxation. How is it any different?

Charity and generosity done out of a joyful heart is a wonderful thing that produces benefits beyond monetary value. It produces love and good will which in turn produces more generosity, a sense of "paying it forward." But charity and generosity that is forced produces anger, ill-will, jealousy and division.

Remove the dems from this
They have nothing to do with this now
When republicans run the house and Senate and can't agree on the issue now what do you have to say????

This is not about party affiliation so why make it out to be?

The basis of this thread is the fact that the Dems are gaining momentum to run on a single payer platform. You have gone a dozen directions but that is what i am talking about. Talking about the Dem platform..

When the Dems start running around the country next year spouting off how they back insurance for everyone (notice I didn't say "free") then I want them to be confronted with explaining how it is to be paid for. Like Andrew Wilkow says, the government doesn't give anything to anyone that they haven't taken from someone else. What are the liberals going to do when they run out of OPM. Oh, not to criticize John McCain, but did Obamacare take care of his trip to the Mayo Clinic? Let me know when I can go to the Mayo Clinic for care.

Same way education is.
Why is it a "right" for kids to learn about ancient Egypt but not for adults to be cured from pancreatic cancer?

Let me also answer this one. This is going to sound cruel, but there's no way around it. No one has any right to be cured from any disease. The reason is due to the fact that the cure is found in the services that must be performed by a human being. If you force that person to give you something they have, you have now either enslaved them, stolen from them, or both. If that person provides their services in exchange for monetary consideration they deem fair or out of the generosity of their own heart, then so be it. However, if it is forced, then it is forced labor. Forced labor is slavery. No two ways about it.

Furthermore, we have other rights that are written out in the Constitution, the right to bear arms, for example. By your logic, there should be a nationwide firearms program whereby every person should have easy and affordable access to guns and ammunition, and if they can't afford it, there should be a government program where they can get the cost of their guns and ammunition subsidized. The government would set the price that manufacturers and stores could charge for guns and ammunition so that it's fair for everyone who wants one.

Beyond that, EVERYONE is going to die. There is a 100% chance of it. Some of us are fortunate (or unfortunate - depending on your view of the subject) to live longer than others. Even the richest among us die "prematurely" from time to time, even though they have the money to pay the best doctors in the world. It's inevitable. We'll all die. For some it will be Pancreatic Cancer. For others, it will be a drunk driver, a skiing accident, or an accidental drowning. You cannot stop nature from taking it's course. It's going to happen.

Education was mandated in order to have a population that could live a life of self sustainability, and be a productive part of the country. That has changed quite a bit since the 70's or mainly the 90's. I dont have a problem with mandated education because in the long run it produced the greatest country the world has ever known.
For the most part, no one in this country is poor.
Of those that are on the lower end of income.....most choose to be either by choosing dope or alcahol over quality work and pay or they are generational gov. Slaves so they do have to work. A very small % of our society are on the bottom due to health problems or no work available. And, what ever happened to people taking care of their own family? I dont care what my mother or how much it cost me, ill do what ever it takes to pay for it. I will not ask my neighbors to provide for her.

The basis of this thread is the fact that the Dems are gaining momentum to run on a single payer platform. You have gone a dozen directions but that is what i am talking about. Talking about the Dem platform..

LoL and that's why Obamacare is here to stay
Because your head is stuck in the sand

It's a wonderful thing that you have compassion for people, now go take your own money and individually, by yourself, or with a group of like-minded people, under your own impulses and compassion, go and help other individuals pay for their medicines and procedures.

Seriously, when is the last time you helped anyone else by taking your own money, from your own account or pocket, and used it to help another individual? When is the last time you gave to an organization, charity, church, etc, that collects money for the sole purpose of helping someone in need? When is the last time you've done anything generous on your own? That's an honest, sincere question, to which I genuinely want to know the answer.

If you have done that, then good. That's excellent and I applaud your generosity. More people should do that. However, to force anyone to do that under compulsion from forces outside their own convictions is theft. I've got plenty of medical bills sitting in from of me right now, amounting to tens of thousands of dollars. If I force you to pay for my medical bills, then that is me taking money from you by force. That is theft. However, if instead, I use the government to force you to pay a tax to them and then through some convoluted system of government accounting, they pay for it, we call that fair taxation. How is it any different?

Charity and generosity done out of a joyful heart is a wonderful thing that produces benefits beyond monetary value. It produces love and good will which in turn produces more generosity, a sense of "paying it forward." But charity and generosity that is forced produces anger, ill-will, jealousy and division.

Education IS NOT A RIGHT. It is
M-A-N-D-A-T-E-D. There is a distinct difference. I will ask again for you to show me in our founding documents where education is a Right. Show it to me. I know you won't because you can't.

But why stop there? Let's do free housing and free cars and free vacation homes. Hell, let's use France as the model and go to the 30 hour work week. That's TRUE utopia, right?

Sign me up right now for a 30 HR work week. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 8 to 6 with a hr lunch.