Usually Vettel's success has been said to be the merit of the the car. However in Fernando Alonso's case the victories have this year again been typically said to be the merit of the driver's own talents.

Vettel tells in the latest interview with Auto, Motor und Sport, that he is not going to lose his sleep because of the public opinion...continue reading here http://www.racingnerds.com/?p=1219

Since we're on the precipice of falling into the mentality of twelve year old girls who marinate in drama and are more concerned about what someone says about them...

Quotes from Kimi:

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I’m not interested in what Jackie says. He hasn’t got anything to do with me.

Coulthard can say what he wants. I’m not interested in what he’s saying.

I don’t give a damn about what Trulli says.

Montoya’s comments doesn’t interest me.

It doesn’t matter what he says. (Kimi about Hamilton’s defences after Canada GP)

What the papers write about me afterwards makes me laugh.

I’m not interested in what people think about me. I’m not Michael Schumacher.

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Martin Brundle: “Kimi Raikkonen doesn’t seem interested in the proceedings going on up there. Kimi, you missed the presentation by Pele.”Kimi (nonchalantly): “Yeah.”Martin: ”Will you get over it?”Kimi: “Yeah. I was having a fairy cakes.”

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Kimi, have you ever got angry about anything, and jumped up and down and shouted?Yeah, many times but of course you’re not happy if you retire or something but I guess it mostly happens more in normal life than in racing.Can you give us examples?No, not really. What are the kind of things that make you angry in normal life, as you say?If you keep asking questions like those.

The original article in AMUS is a good read. Remarkable stat that he was passed only three times the whole season!

To be fair, that doesn't include being passed on track by Button x2, Hamilton and Webber in ChinaHamilton (whilst unlapping himself) in Germany if you count thatButton in Hungary, as it was T2 and a genuine pass

but I think that is all I can think of and I tracked most of them.

9 in total then

_________________In India, he won it 4 times "I was racing, I was faster, I passed him, I WON!"Those that can, doThose that can't, boo14/11/10 Miracle09/10/11 Double25/11/12 Treble27/10/13 Quadruple

I think it does bother him and he feels he's not getting the recognition he thinks he is entitled to. After the Brazilian GP and the title triumph he stressed that the success wasn't down to the car.

The argument of how good Seb really is is never going to be settled as long as he's driving the best car with his main opponents in weaker cars and/or until he faces a tough team mate in the same team. Seb of course can point to his own record and say that he won the title three times on the trot. Yet he had the best equipment all that time and two out of those three seasons he won with a very slim margin against an opponent who had weaker equipment at his disposal. He's one of the top drivers but currently, despite all of his success he doesn't appear to be as good as Alonso. Or Hamilton. In the future he may be, but at the moment, no.

I think it does bother him and he feels he's not getting the recognition he thinks he is entitled to. After the Brazilian GP and the title triumph he stressed that the success wasn't down to the car.

The argument of how good Seb really is is never going to be settled as long as he's driving the best car with his main opponents in weaker cars and/or until he faces a tough team mate in the same team. Seb of course can point to his own record and say that he won the title three times on the trot. Yet he had the best equipment all that time and two out of those three seasons he won with a very slim margin against an opponent who had weaker equipment at his disposal. He's one of the top drivers but currently, despite all of his success he doesn't appear to be as good as Alonso. Or Hamilton. In the future he may be, but at the moment, no.

I think it does bother him and he feels he's not getting the recognition he thinks he is entitled to. After the Brazilian GP and the title triumph he stressed that the success wasn't down to the car.

Doesnt look like he is bothered by all the Alonso love. He seems to be the " focussed on the goal "kind who knows what really matters - i.e. titles !!

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The argument of how good Seb really is is never going to be settled as long as he's driving the best car with his main opponents in weaker cars

Firstly there is no way to know whos car was better. But if you apply conventional forum logic , this year the McLaren was miles ahead for instance and in 2010 Ferrari was very close. 2011 was the only year , its clear that he had a dominant car.

Webbers results throw good enough light on the car strength. 5th in WDC this year doesnt reflect a dominant car.

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and/or until he faces a tough team mate in the same team.

Again , Vettel has a better / faster / more headstrong / unhelpful teammate than Lewis or Alonso so I m not sure - what the point is.

In terms of speed Webber > > Massa Webber > Button

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Seb of course can point to his own record and say that he won the title three times on the trot. Yet he had the best equipment all that time and two out of those three seasons he won with a very slim margin against an opponent who had weaker equipment at his disposal.

He's one of the top drivers but currently, despite all of his success he doesn't appear to be as good as Alonso. Or Hamilton. In the future he may be, but at the moment, no.

Seb doesnt need to point to his own records - he has Alonso and Lewis to do the job for him

And I think he has already clearly stepped above those two. Lewis and Alonso probably know this as well , Its just fanboys who are struggling to cope up - that's all !

I think it does bother him and he feels he's not getting the recognition he thinks he is entitled to. After the Brazilian GP and the title triumph he stressed that the success wasn't down to the car.

The argument of how good Seb really is is never going to be settled as long as he's driving the best car with his main opponents in weaker cars and/or until he faces a tough team mate in the same team. Seb of course can point to his own record and say that he won the title three times on the trot. Yet he had the best equipment all that time and two out of those three seasons he won with a very slim margin against an opponent who had weaker equipment at his disposal. He's one of the top drivers but currently, despite all of his success he doesn't appear to be as good as Alonso. Or Hamilton. In the future he may be, but at the moment, no.

Although he didn't

How so? One can pick races from almost any champion's any season and say there's an odd race or a few where someone else had a better car. Over the season Vettel had the best equipment each season from 2010 to 2012.

I think it does bother him and he feels he's not getting the recognition he thinks he is entitled to. After the Brazilian GP and the title triumph he stressed that the success wasn't down to the car.

The argument of how good Seb really is is never going to be settled as long as he's driving the best car with his main opponents in weaker cars and/or until he faces a tough team mate in the same team. Seb of course can point to his own record and say that he won the title three times on the trot. Yet he had the best equipment all that time and two out of those three seasons he won with a very slim margin against an opponent who had weaker equipment at his disposal. He's one of the top drivers but currently, despite all of his success he doesn't appear to be as good as Alonso. Or Hamilton. In the future he may be, but at the moment, no.

Although he didn't

How so? One can pick races from almost any champion's any season and say there's an odd race or a few where someone else had a better car. Over the season Vettel had the best equipment each season from 2010 to 2012.

McLaren was faster this year, although not so reliable. That much has been established. The loss of the blown diffuser hurt Red Bull a lot.

I'd also say that in 2010 the Macca and Ferrari weren't that much behind anyway.

The argument of how good Seb really is is never going to be settled as long as he's driving the best car with his main opponents in weaker cars and/or until he faces a tough team mate in the same team

Eh.Hamilton and Alonso went head to head - and what conclusions could be drawn from that? Virtually none.

Hamilton and Alonso have been building their statuses mostly next to drivers that aren't considered to be on their level - so why does Vettel have to be alongside Hamilton or Alonso to build a status for himself? Especially since Webber is arguably just as good, if not better, than Massa and Button?

I keep saying it - Webber has, for the past 4 years, not managed to end up right behind Vettel in the WDC standings come year's end. That alone proves it's not just the car.

To summarize: if the argument is "we won't know how good Vettel is until teamed up with Hamilton or Alonso", the counter-argument is really "same goes for Hamilton and Alonso".

Since we're on the precipice of falling into the mentality of twelve year old girls who marinate in drama and are more concerned about what someone says about them...

Quotes from Kimi:

Quote:

I’m not interested in what Jackie says. He hasn’t got anything to do with me.

Coulthard can say what he wants. I’m not interested in what he’s saying.

I don’t give a damn about what Trulli says.

Montoya’s comments doesn’t interest me.

It doesn’t matter what he says. (Kimi about Hamilton’s defences after Canada GP)

What the papers write about me afterwards makes me laugh.

I’m not interested in what people think about me. I’m not Michael Schumacher.

Quote:

Martin Brundle: “Kimi Raikkonen doesn’t seem interested in the proceedings going on up there. Kimi, you missed the presentation by Pele.”Kimi (nonchalantly): “Yeah.”Martin: ”Will you get over it?”Kimi: “Yeah. I was having a fairy cakes.”

Quote:

Kimi, have you ever got angry about anything, and jumped up and down and shouted?Yeah, many times but of course you’re not happy if you retire or something but I guess it mostly happens more in normal life than in racing.Can you give us examples?No, not really. What are the kind of things that make you angry in normal life, as you say?If you keep asking questions like those.

God, what did people do before the internet where they could do a search to find the most obscure & usually disjointed article to confirm to themselves that what they think must be right.

Webber achieved pretty much the same results as Button, Hamilton and Alonso, but no one, absolutely no one rates him the same as Hamilton and Alonso or even Button. It wouldn't be possible without dominant cars, head and shoulders ahead of the rest.

Vettel is very much bothered by the fact even his 3rd title didn't change his perception. PR department at Red Bull is trying so many different things, changing his haircuts, showing the finger, juvenile screams over radio, stealing post win celebrations (cowboy riding stolen from Antonio Felix da Costa) and it's not working. 3 times world champion and still fans and F1 paddock are rating Hamilton and Alonso much higher, eventhough they didn't win any title since 2008. 3 times world champion and in polls on various message boards Vettel is not even in Top 5 favourite F1 drivers. So much success and so little recognition, it is painful for Vettel.

Vettel is very much bothered by the fact even his 3rd title didn't change his perception. PR department at Red Bull is trying so many different things, changing his haircuts, showing the finger, juvenile screams over radio, stealing post win celebrations (cowboy riding stolen from Antonio Felix da Costa) and it's not working. 3 times world champion and still fans and F1 paddock are rating Hamilton and Alonso much higher, eventhough they didn't win any title since 2008. 3 times world champion and in polls on various message boards Vettel is not even in Top 5 favourite F1 drivers. So much success and so little recognition, it is painful for Vettel.

What planet are you living on? Is it called the State of Delusion?

I have news for you. The reason SV was able to win this year is that he keeps his head in the game and doesn't care one bit about any of the things you just mentioned.

Vettel is very much bothered by the fact even his 3rd title didn't change his perception. PR department at Red Bull is trying so many different things, changing his haircuts, showing the finger, juvenile screams over radio, stealing post win celebrations (cowboy riding stolen from Antonio Felix da Costa) and it's not working. 3 times world champion and still fans and F1 paddock are rating Hamilton and Alonso much higher, eventhough they didn't win any title since 2008. 3 times world champion and in polls on various message boards Vettel is not even in Top 5 favourite F1 drivers. So much success and so little recognition, it is painful for Vettel.

What planet are you living on? Is it called the State of Delusion?

I have news for you. The reason SV was able to win this year is that he keeps his head in the game and doesn't care one bit about any of the things you just mentioned.

Why oh why do you even bother Ashley? I mean Jochen. I mean ashley313!

Vettel is very much bothered by the fact even his 3rd title didn't change his perception. PR department at Red Bull is trying so many different things, changing his haircuts, showing the finger, juvenile screams over radio, stealing post win celebrations (cowboy riding stolen from Antonio Felix da Costa) and it's not working. 3 times world champion and still fans and F1 paddock are rating Hamilton and Alonso much higher, eventhough they didn't win any title since 2008. 3 times world champion and in polls on various message boards Vettel is not even in Top 5 favourite F1 drivers. So much success and so little recognition, it is painful for Vettel.

What planet are you living on? Is it called the State of Delusion?

I have news for you. The reason SV was able to win this year is that he keeps his head in the game and doesn't care one bit about any of the things you just mentioned.

Why oh why do you even bother Ashley? I mean Jochen. I mean ashley313!

I keep saying it - Webber has, for the past 4 years, not managed to end up right behind Vettel in the WDC standings come year's end. That alone proves it's not just the car.

That precisely proves it's the car.

No it doesn't. With your little list of achievements, you're only proving a good driver (Webber) can get good results with a great car.If you're saying it's "just" the car and the driver doesn't matter, that should be backed up by having Vettels team mate firmly in second position 3 years in a row (and third place in 2009). We haven't seen that even once, the past four years.

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Webber achieved pretty much the same results as Button, Hamilton and Alonso, but no one, absolutely no one rates him the same as Hamilton and Alonso or even Button.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

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3 times world champion and still fans and F1 paddock are rating Hamilton and Alonso much higher this year

FTFY. The sentiment in 2009 and 2011 was quite different. But we've forgotten that already, right? After all, when judging a driver we should only judge the results that back up our opinion, correct? Then what was your position on Hamilton one year ago?

I don't even know why I bother answering you, as you will probably remain silent once again when confronted with logic... But hey, let's see, maybe just this one time

Even if Seb wins 4 5 6 7 wdc's he will still be classified as poor driver in a really fast car, I still believe if Narain was driving Sebs version of the Red Bull then he would be 3 times world champion. Actually if my nan was driving sebs car then she would be 3 times world champion. Nope if Michael jacksons monkey bubbles was driving sebs version of the red bull it would be 3 times world champion.

No, it's not "a view" when you're talking about "your nan" (shame on you, by the way). At that point it becomes childish trash talk.Also, conspiracy theories are rubbish ("Sebs version of the Red Bull").

You might as well waste your time on youtube, where that kind of comments are normal.

Yea my nan could win a WDC in that red bull with how many illegal things going on with that car throughout the whole year... That is a fact!I can again prove it!

Its like when you play a computer game and cant complete it so put it on easy then jump around like you did it on the hardest level, best sums up Sebs achievements in comparison to Fernando,Hamilton and kimi's.