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Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I don't know if you can classify this as love or just being a fanatic but for 6 years I had the pleasure/non-pleasure of watching Peyton's backside while meeting the fans. I can tell you on most occasions when there was a good size crowd I had to jump people's @ss for being way too crazy for wanting an autograph. We're talking men and women willing to push little kids out of the way just so they could be near him. I didn't work around Reggie so maybe he had the same experience but the love/admiration for Peyton reached scary heights.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

Sounds like the Pacers in the 90's and early 00's. Missed the playoffs only like once within a 15 year period. Quick rebuild after 00. Turned the Pacers into a winning franchise. The only difference is the Colts got to one more championship game in which they won the championship. All teams go through ebbs and flows. When a team is on a rise they have to go through a period of proving they aren't a losing franchise anymore. The Colts have even gone through it this season. Most people in the media thought last season was more of a fluke than anything, and a lot of people still are not sold on the Colts.

Look this is all fine and dandy, but none of this speaks of how either player was loved. It only speaks of their accomplishments. Great accomplishments do not necessarily equal more love. They are two separate concepts (i.e. JO vs Foster). So far I am the only one who has shown evidence of greater love, everyone else is just comparing accomplishments. It is like you guys are turning it into a point system where Reggie gets a point for every shot he made, and Manning gets a point for every pass he completed. That isn't talking about love, that is talking about who was the more accomplished player.

Accomplishments are the main reason why you like a sports figure. Love and accomplishments are not mutually exclusive ideas. We're not talking about a simple football legend vs. basketball legend kind of deal. We're talking about a superstar that is on the level of a LeBron, MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. You're talking about without argument one of the top 3 at his position in history. That's why most fans are drawn to sports figures: because of their accomplishments on the field or court. Longevity in a particular place plays a factor as well.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

Accomplishments are the main reason why you like a sports figure. Love and accomplishments are not mutually exclusive ideas. We're not talking about a simple football legend vs. basketball legend kind of deal. We're talking about a superstar that is on the level of a LeBron, MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. You're talking about without argument one of the top 3 at his position in history. That's why most fans are drawn to sports figures: because of their accomplishments on the field or court. Longevity in a particular place plays a factor as well.

They may not be mutually exclusive, but that also doesn't mean they are dependent either. Again see JO vs Foster. Point being a list of accomplishments shows why he is loved, not how much he is loved. This isn't a scientific equation where all you need to know are their statistics. This is about human reaction to the statistics, and reactions are not always equal.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

They may not be mutually exclusive, but that also doesn't mean they are dependent either. Again see JO vs Foster. Point being a list of accomplishments shows why he is loved, not how much he is loved. This isn't a scientific equation where all you need to know are their statistics. This is about human reaction to the statistics, and reactions are not always equal.

Funny you should bring up JO, as he is actually my favorite Pacer for now. But Foster had a couple things going for him: he was here for a long time and as a role player he was never held responsible for losses or the team underachieving.

The only thing you can do is ask people who they loved more, and record the response.

As for Basketball Fan, I don't think Manning would have had a problem "making Indianapolis relevant" even if Reggie hadn't done it. And you can't count him not playing his whole career here because he did not sign with another team in free agency and most Colts fans still want Manning to win when he's not playing the Colts. The love didn't/won't stop just because he moved.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I would argue that when people think of the Pacers, they think of that team that might be pretty good but doesn't have good enough players to win it all. They're compared to the Atlanta Hawks of a few years ago more than to the Celtics, Heat, or Knicks in terms of title contention. Until this year, but that wasn't an effect of the continued attitude from Reggie's era.

I know what you meant but don't ever compare the Pacers to the never-been-out-of-the-2nd-round Atlanta Hawks!

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

Indiana has not lost touch with its roots.....you are just misconceiving Indiana as a mega basketball state meaning that it is a mega Pacer state. Indiana got its reputation as a huge basketball state because of its love and dedication to High School basketball and College basketball.....both of these things remain unchanged....I still have groups of people at my work that talk routinely about High School basketball and Indiana still routinely produces some of the best High School basketball talent year in and year out.....and college basketball and the likes of Indiana even through some awful seasons still sold tickets like crazy.....Indiana's love for basketball has not changed, it just doesn't have the same dedication to pro basketball as either HS or College.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I guess I don't have love affairs with underachievers. Peyton was great to watch over all the years and provided great entertainment, but he almost always broke my heart. Every season except the early years and the super bowl left a sour taste in my mouth. For some reason Reggie really never did. Part of my argument was the expectations that Manning never exceeded, while Reggie always did. Denver fans got the same treatment last year.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I guess I don't have love affairs with underachievers. Peyton was great to watch over all the years and provided great entertainment, but he almost always broke my heart. Every season except the early years and the super bowl left a sour taste in my mouth. For some reason Reggie really never did. Part of my argument was the expectations that Manning never exceeded, while Reggie always did. Denver fans got the same treatment last year.

If you want to say part of the reason you don't have a love affair is because of a lot of disappointments and you feel we should have won more Super Bowls with him fine. However, I think it is highly offensive and unfair to Peyton to use the word UNDERACHIEVER.....He's ACHIEVED everything there is to achieve in pro football and is known as one of if not the hardest worker in the NFL......he has always been a first in last out guy and HIGHLY devoted to his craft......please make your argument a different way than calling the guy an UNDERACHIEVER.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

If you want to say part of the reason you don't have a love affair is because of a lot of disappointments and you feel we should have won more Super Bowls with him fine. However, I think it is highly offensive and unfair to Peyton to use the word UNDERACHIEVER.....He's ACHIEVED everything there is to achieve in pro football and is known as one of if not the hardest worker in the NFL......he has always been a first in last out guy and HIGHLY devoted to his craft......please make your argument a different way than calling the guy an UNDERACHIEVER.

So Peyton did not underachieve in Indy? You feel like he was one-championship type of player? There are people here saying he is the MJ of the NFL, which is ridiculous. I get that it's a lot harder for one player to make that impact in the NFL, and sorry if you don't like to hear it, but Manning underachieved in the playoffs when it mattered most. There is a reason Tom Brady is in the same conversation when you talk about greatest of all time, rings. Peyton doesn't have them, and with his talent, he should. It left a bad taste in a lot of people mouths. Call me bitter if you want, I just care more about playoff accomplishments than regular season accomplishments. Reggie was known to propel his game in the playoffs, Manning was known to choke.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I guess I don't have love affairs with underachievers. Peyton was great to watch over all the years and provided great entertainment, but he almost always broke my heart. Every season except the early years and the super bowl left a sour taste in my mouth. For some reason Reggie really never did. Part of my argument was the expectations that Manning never exceeded, while Reggie always did. Denver fans got the same treatment last year.

Peyton's one ring might hurt him in a GOAT debate against Tom Brady or Joe Montana, but it's not going to hurt him in a debate against a guy like Reggie who has zero rings. Peyton won a ring and helped the city get it's only modern day sports championship. That puts him above everyone else. Sure the running game and defense were huge in that playoff run, but Peyton's arm won the second half of that AFCCG against New England, which was one of the most epic playoff games in NFL history.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

So Peyton did not underachieve in Indy? You feel like he was one-championship type of player? There are people here saying he is the MJ of the NFL, which is ridiculous. I get that it's a lot harder for one player to make that impact in the NFL, and sorry if you don't like to hear it, but Manning underachieved in the playoffs when it mattered most. There is a reason Tom Brady is in the same conversation when you talk about greatest of all time, rings. Peyton doesn't have them, and with his talent, he should. It left a bad taste in a lot of people mouths. Call me bitter if you want, I just care more about playoff accomplishments than regular season accomplishments. Reggie was known to propel his game in the playoffs, Manning was known to choke.

Did that generation of Colts underachieve perhaps but to me underachieve and underachievers are two different things. The word underachiever has a distinct undertone to it, not of a person that didn't meet expectations, but more of a person that is a failure. You don't call the runner-up to the valedictorian an underachiever even if it was possible for them to have won the award. You call a person that wasted their talents an underachiever. Somebody like a Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russel, a high school pot head drop out. To me hearing somebody call a top 5 QB of-all-time an underachiever when the guy did NOTHING to waste his talents only worked as hard as he could every year to MAXIMIZE his talents is an absolute terrible title to bestow on him. Did the Indianapolis Colts of the 2000s underachieve? That is a matter of opinion and I'm fine if you want to voice yours as yes I won't argue with you. What I do have a problem with though is calling Peyton an UNDERACHIEVER just simply not a word I think should be associated to him.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

Just because Manning didn't fight with famous Boston fans or constantly jaw at opponents doesn't mean that he didn't want to badly win those games. Manning as the most famous and marketable player in the NFL had an image to protect. It wouldn't have been a good look to cuss out Pats fans at Gillette while giving them offensive gestures.

NFL quarterbacks in general try to behave classy. Rivers looked like an a-hole when he was chirping at fans in the Dome during that playoff game.

Honestly, I'm not sure it's even in a Quarterback's best interest to start jawing with 350 pound defensive lineman. That's not quite the same as John Starks.

Peyton should've even had 2 Superbowls if not for Hank Baskett and Garcon's stone hands, but don't get me started.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I know this is a curveball, but is Larry Bird more loved in Indiana than Reggie, even though he never played here? Those 3 would have to be the most loved sports figures by Indiana fans. And again, it might have to do with him being here and relevant right now and not a thing of the past.

Larry Bird had a HUGE following due to his college ball and what he did for ISU on the court. I'm sure statewide Bird has a bigger reach. ...But some of that is because the Pacers' marketing dwindles considerably the further you get from I465.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I understand that sentiment...though I'm not sure what exactly it has to do with my comment...

For me, its not even close...its Reggie by a landslide...

And as for quarterbacks, what I was saying is at the rate Andrew Luck is going Peyton wont even be the most loved quarterback to ever play in Indy, let alone the most loved athlete....Andrew is definitely ahead of the Manning curve so far...

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

I understand that sentiment...though I'm not sure what exactly it has to do with my comment...

For me, its not even close...its Reggie by a landslide...

And as for quarterbacks, what I was saying is at the rate Andrew Luck is going Peyton wont even be the most loved quarterback to ever play in Indy, let alone the most loved athlete....Andrew is definitely ahead of the Manning curve so far...

The point is if not for Peyton, there's no Luck in Indy, period. That's why he's beloved. Without #18, Indy isn't getting Lucas Oil Stadium, sure as hell doesn't host a Super Bowl, and there's a very real chance they're playing in Los Angeles.

Re: Who has more love in Indy: Reggie or Peyton?

Did that generation of Colts underachieve perhaps but to me underachieve and underachievers are two different things. The word underachiever has a distinct undertone to it, not of a person that didn't meet expectations, but more of a person that is a failure. You don't call the runner-up to the valedictorian an underachiever even if it was possible for them to have won the award. You call a person that wasted their talents an underachiever. Somebody like a Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russel, a high school pot head drop out. To me hearing somebody call a top 5 QB of-all-time an underachiever when the guy did NOTHING to waste his talents only worked as hard as he could every year to MAXIMIZE his talents is an absolute terrible title to bestow on him. Did the Indianapolis Colts of the 2000s underachieve? That is a matter of opinion and I'm fine if you want to voice yours as yes I won't argue with you. What I do have a problem with though is calling Peyton an UNDERACHIEVER just simply not a word I think should be associated to him.

If lebron only won a single championsip, he would be viewed as an underachiever. So why does Manning get a pass? Because you have an emotional tie to him?