Hi Mr piwk , I really happy to received your reply , seems you have concern sharing your awareness to me , sincerely thank you . Other might lost patient and left .My belief on Mr Siddharta based on my current awareness and some gossip I want to believe is he was lived in the best of material world , so when he realised he have to under-go aging / sickness and death , he cant accept that but wanted to live in his dream world forever . I belief he suffers fear , his ultimate fear is fear of not knowning on afterdeath .His search lead him to find the original source of energy for all existance -the buddha . After he understood his fear , he was free of all suffering but his teaching was wrong interpret by human . Human too ego to learn but have thier own way / views this caused his teaching / his wish fail to materialised .His basic tips / message is good will lead us to Buddha , bad will divert us away from Buddha .

I belief all living / non-living in this entire universe and beyond is a form of energy that transformed / changing shapes / to be stable / under-go thier own purification process to be pure / free of all poluttant , to be empty ,,,to be Budhha .Buddha is original un-pollutted / pure energy of emptiness introduced to human by Mr Siddharta .I belief if we focus on his "suffer" before he found buddha , his search we will see what he saw . All teaching /words of wisdom / texts should only limited to serve as knowledge in search of Buddha NOT AS REFERRAL . In serach of Buddha knowledge does not exist but is our own awareness. Knowledges is maybe one part per millions in the process of searching Buddha .

Searching Buddha is continuesly changing / moving process so is IMPOSSIBLE to write down any process as referral .All monks writing / texts / belief / culture should be limited as a knowledge to promote self exploration to understand Buddha .I belief Buddha is perhaps trillions of light years / trillions of life time from me so how can one descripe it so firmly . Is all in our own mind to search , you maybe in a bus stop sundry stop but mistakenly think that is the largest shopping mall.The fact is NO ONE can claim to understand Buddha teaching , we all still searching . IF WE ARE NOT READY or TOO Ego TO DISCUSS / LEARN SINCERELY FROM EACH OTHER but too eager to teach other.....we will only see ourself not Buddha .Buddha is an energy in all ,we are same / equal to all living or non-living , so we can learn Buddha from all if only we sincere / open / ready to forget our ego .Ego / selfishness is limitation to know BUDDHA .This is only my belief in my current awareness but surely I will have different views after I move to higher awareness . For example my belief of Siddharta or buddha will maybe different after I read your reply , yes we will change our views on any matters not only Buddha after we move to different awareness .

Mr piwk , you seems very comfortable with your belief of Buddha , I really happy for you . For me I am still searching and maybe I will never be confident enought even i finish my life time here but I will keep trying .In search of Buddha , I must keep searching,,,,even a cat or dog can show me Buddha , that is my belief .

Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I see, you seem like you wish to be a Samyaksambuddha. Someone whos discovers the dhamma without refering to books or studies that the buddha has already taught us.

Samyaksambuddhas (Pali: sammasambuddha) gain Nirvana by their own efforts, and discover the Dhamma without having a teacher to point it out. They then lead others to enlightenment by teaching the Dhamma in a time or world where it has been forgotten or has not been taught before, because a Samyaksambuddha does not depend upon a tradition that stretches back to a previous Samyaksambuddha, but instead discovers the path anew.[2] The historical Buddha, Gautama Buddha, is considered a Samyaksambuddha. See also the list of 28 sammasambuddhas.Three variations can be distinguished in the way of achieving Samyaksambuddha-hood. With more wisdom (prajñādhika), with more effort (vīryādhika) or with more faith (śraddhādhika). Śākyamuni was a Prajñādhika (through more wisdom) Buddha. The next Buddha of this world, Maitreya (Pāli: Metteyya) will be a Vīryādhika (through more effort) Buddha.

Firstly, I think that's very difficult, I think everyone would find it very difficult. Like you said, you already got half a foot in the coffin, why try to seek the truth on your own when the Buddha has already laid it out for you.

Frankly , i think Mr Siddharta was wrongly quoted . His message / finding was wrongly interpret due to human ego / selfishness to learn but more on "teaching" others of what he believed regards to Mr Siddharta finding .

"Ehi Passiko" like the buddha said, which means try it yourself. No one is asking you to put complete faith in those teachings, but you can test it out, try it out, if it benefits you, if you think it's true, then accept it. If not, reject it.

IMO, Life is too short to spend the next few years of your life seeking the truth that is already known.

It's like not believing what you see in the science textbook, so you pretend that it doesn't exist and try to discover science all over again. When you could actually read the textbook, and conduct experiments to see if what's in the book is true. It's like discovering gravity all over again... Why not just test if gravity exists, if it's true, accept it, if it isn't, forget it.

The fact is too many "master" , too many "writing" can be easily considered as referral to Buddha and mis-leading . Too many cooks spoil the soup . Buddhism is now mixed with local culture / local belief with local practise due to what? DUE TO HUMAN EGO , everybody just want to teach .

The special thing about buddhism is that it can adapt into many cultures, and most of the time (if not always), not lose it's essence, not lose what the teaching is really about. It's like buddhism in Tibet and buddhism in China, in tibet, we have Vajrayana, which contains teachings of emptiness. And in China, we have Chan(Zen) Buddhism, which also teaches about emptiness. Some people like Chan buddhism and some people like Tibetan buddhism, but in essence, it's the same, they both teach the same things. However, some people still choose 1 over the other, it's not that they're entirely different, maybe on the appearance, they might be different, but in essence and some (if not all the) teachings, they're the same.

So, to sum all up, Firstly, your concern is that you're afraid that what may seem like the buddha's teachings might not be the buddha's teaching. In other words, what we have been reading all along might be false.

It's not bad to question, but yeah, like the buddha said before, Ehi Passiko, go see for yourself. Most of us would prefer to practice and test it out ourselves than actually trying to discover the dhamma all over again. That may be very admirable, however, like we all know, life is too short.

Secondly, you think that what some masters are saying might not be true.

Like wise, again, we're not going to tell you "IT IS TRUE! BELIEVE IT!". Just a nice "Ehi Passiko"

Thirdly, I don't quite understand your theory on energy.

Fourthly, you mentioned about teachers becoming teachers because of their ego.

To be honest I'm not very well versed in the dharma, so I wouldn't dare touch the subject of ego. But I see having more teachers not as a problem, as long as they teach in accord with dharma, and is seen and tested by buddhist followers all around the world, if it's true, people will follow it, if not, people will avoid it.

Yeah so Ehi Passiko, dont be christopher columbus and discover america all over again, read the map, sail there and see if it exists. Same goes for the dharma, read up on what already exists, test and see if it's true, if it's true, accept it, if not, reject it.

Everyone faces difficulty when they encounter the dharma, I'm still facing difficulties. Let's just hope we will all find our way.

What he is doing isn't wrong IMHO, a good enquiring spirit This to us, seems unnecessary, seems a long way, but if people like taking longer routes, why not. Most importantly, they get to our common destination, buddhahood.

Let's not forget our vows of gaining enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings. Our vow of helping all sentient beings attain buddhahood. So for now, lets be nice, patient and compassionate. Don't let our arrogance and our impatience hinder us from fulfilling our vows.

Piwk question" 2. When one has true and proper conviction in something, of what use is 'belief' and 'debate'? To re-inforce one's own ego? 3. How is 'freedom' defined by you? To be free from suffering or the temporary convenience of a self-deluded mind not wishing to see true reality as it is? "Good morning Mr piwk , sorry I miss out your above question .

Question no 2 . I am of the opinion that Buddha is not knowledge or wisdom or awareness / not place / not a material or anything - is only pure emptiness - the final destination of all .Is too far to reach but too near to see , is all in our mind ALL THE TIME . We might see it / understand it not no one in this world is "in" Buddha since we still have poluttant call life .Sir , how can I be that confident to debate with you about Buddha since I still have poluttant call life ?That is my point in Buddha teaching never exist but in search of Buddha we can only share our awareness to help eeach other move to higher awareness , knowledge is small part to gain awareness . We can only gain awareness with our sincere mind to accept / share / learn / evolved / transformed / change views in our own will .Sir , I wish to debate not becouse I think I am right but I wish to learn more from you , I hope you understand that .

question no 3 .In Buddha "freedom "never exist but in search of Buddha we only have OPTION . We have option to be closer or away from Buddha but when we reach to much-much higher awareness , we will not need any option , we only need one way .....to Buddha .

Hi alasdairyee ,sir , let me explain by this example .We are all like pure white paper but when we start drawing on this paper we actually draw what we wish to see and we feel happy of what we see . In fact that is selfish .But when we draw on other person pure white paper and draw as our wish to see .....that is ego . In search of Buddha selfish and ego is limitation to understand /know buddha.

Sir , I am not what you tough i am , I am not even know myself so how can other know who am I ?sir sorry if I am being rude , In search of Buddha we only can see our self on how other feel / think / know about us , we can not know it from our own judgement , just like we need a mirror to see our face .

Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I see, you seem like you wish to be a Samyaksambuddha. Someone whos discovers the dhamma without refering to books or studies that the buddha has already taught us.

Just a thought...Me thinks this may be, just may be a case of choosing something near similar to the Pratyekabuddha path, only that in his case, the difference is the period and conditions that he is in right now, there is a Samyak Sambuddha's Teachings, Sakyamuni Buddha's, still intact and available [whereas, in the actual case of a pratyekabuddha, there are no such conditions and they are self-enlightened without a teacher/guide or reference, although they may not teach directly like a Samyak Sambuddha but through other more subtle and indirect ways] but still chooses to find the Path on his own accord...I know some who are like that and encourage them to seek the Path earnestly, although it may just mean a longer route and perhaps will eventually get there but I keep telling myself, who am I to decide for them, what or when to accept, I recall my own journey from Christianity and know how hard it has been, this is the beautiful hope in the Buddha Dharma, no one decides the path of liberation or perdition other than oneself in the end analysis. I rejoice for him that he can still have this awareness and seemingly that previous Dharmic affinities may just be beginning to take ground here and now. But who knows? Causes and conditions can swiftly change and these kind of people may experience powerful changes and for all you know, he may even get it earlier than myself! Remember the Sixth Patriarch Hui Neng on hearing one verse from the Diamond Cutter Sutra or even what people in his time write off as a hopeless murderer, Angulimala? And I wish liberation for him and all others...It's all in their own hands isn't it?

...how can I be that confident to debate with you about Buddha since I still have poluttant call life ?

This life, you call a 'pollutant' may be a source of grief for some but in the Buddha's Teaching, it is a source/vehicle/expedient for one's liberation.Radical isn't it? While in some other systems, it is regarded with horror and disgust to the point where they end up either in indulging to the point of no tomorrow or engage in torture until one is senseless, the Buddha takes the Middle Way. And this Middle Way teaches us to see this life for what it truly is, takes the goal of liberation into the path and the result is the end of suffering.The only debate left for anyone is does one dare to take up this challenge of actualizing the Middle Way? The Buddha dared. Those who followed Him dared. Back in 1999, I dared. What about you? All other debates are sitting on sinking sand. Think about it.

That is my point in Buddha teaching never exist but in search of Buddha we can only share our awareness to help eeach other move to higher awareness , knowledge is small part to gain awareness . We can only gain awareness with our sincere mind to accept / share / learn / evolved / transformed / change views in our own will .

True but in order to actualize all of those, there must be a clear way to do it isn't it, other than coming to Dharma Wheel or elsewhere every now and then, a hint here and hint there, like the ants in my home, they only appear when there are crumbs or when the weather is hot...in the case of the Buddha, He showed us a blueprint of how to: the stages of the path, practice and realization. It wasn't a guesswork of 'maybe this, maybe that' or as how my mood feel like it... The only thing left for us is to actually do it...that too...He never ask us to blindly accept but to test run it to the max and see for ourselves...You heard of the crude old Malay saying right: 'cakap serupa bikin' ('talk matching action' or 'walk the talk')The Buddha has 'cakap' and by His Life has 'bikin'. What about you and me?The answer lies in our hearts isn't it?

I wish to debate not becouse I think I am right but I wish to learn more from you , I hope you understand that .

That's one of the aims of a Buddhist debate too...to learn from others. That's my intention of engaging with you in these discussions...to learn

Everyone faces difficulty when they encounter the dharma, I'm still facing difficulties. Let's just hope we will all find our way.

What he is doing isn't wrong IMHO, a good enquiring spirit This to us, seems unnecessary, seems a long way, but if people like taking longer routes, why not. Most importantly, they get to our common destination, buddhahood.

Let's not forget our vows of gaining enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings. Our vow of helping all sentient beings attain buddhahood. So for now, lets be nice, patient and compassionate. Don't let our arrogance and our impatience hinder us from fulfilling our vows.

CSEe, It would be my pleasure to have more discussions with you.

Namo Amituofo!_/\_

Your wish to share your awareness is good ...that is the way to Buddha but sorry in advance Buddha is not a place we can bring one to . There is no map leading to Buddha. Buddha is too far to reach if we still have poluttant call life , too near to see if we see ourself as what we wish to see . Buddha IS ALWAYS IN OUR MIND . We are all same like other living or non-living under-going our own purification process by our own speed / own method / own awareness to be pure / free of all pollutant ..to be Buddha .In Buddha , we just cant help anyone to find it , they have to explore it and find it themselves .We can only help each other to speed up our own purification process by sharing our awareness , that all .Why need to vows to empty ? Buddha is empty , no feeling ,no expectation , no promises and Mr Siddharta had perhaps already "in" emptiness , he already is " nothing" .If in this world if some one say we are nothing , we will feel offended and mad but in Buddha if we are nothing....that is actually VERY GREAT.

Last edited by CSEe on Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Selamat pagi Piwk , that is good morning piwk .....are you from Malaysia ? I really wish to answer all your question but some too confusing to my understanding , perhaps you could put it in short simple question .

In search of Buddha , each and every living / non-living in this universe and beyond must have thier own way as I belief each of us under-going our own purification process in our own speed / our own way by our own awareness towards Buddha.Siddharta-the introducer of this energy to human had his own way.....we must have our own way...the cow / cat / horse / plant might have thier own way , why we have to force ourself to take the hard way to follow some one way ?

Why we cant explore find our own way...I want to belief Siddharta did said " STRIVE FOR YOUR OWN LIBERATION WITH DILIGENCE"and " LET MY TEACHING BE YOUR MASTER" and I choose not to believe he wish us to follow his way / his style .

Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I see, you seem like you wish to be a Samyaksambuddha. Someone whos discovers the dhamma without refering to books or studies that the buddha has already taught us.[u][i]I thinks I had answered that[/i][/u]

Samyaksambuddhas (Pali: sammasambuddha) gain Nirvana by their own efforts, and discover the Dhamma without having a teacher to point it out. They then lead others to enlightenment by teaching the Dhamma in a time or world where it has been forgotten or has not been taught before, because a Samyaksambuddha does not depend upon a tradition that stretches back to a previous Samyaksambuddha, but instead discovers the path anew.[2] The historical Buddha, Gautama Buddha, is considered a Samyaksambuddha. See also the list of 28 sammasambuddhas.Three variations can be distinguished in the way of achieving Samyaksambuddha-hood. With more wisdom (prajñādhika), with more effort (vīryādhika) or with more faith (śraddhādhika). Śākyamuni was a Prajñādhika (through more wisdom) Buddha. The next Buddha of this world, Maitreya (Pāli: Metteyya) will be a Vīryādhika (through more effort) Buddha.

Firstly, I think that's very difficult, I think everyone would find it very difficult. Like you said, you already got half a foot in the coffin, why try to seek the truth on your own when the Buddha has already laid it out for you.[i

]In Buddha , we have to explore and find it our self . No materials / teaching including Siddharta's can show Buddha but can only help us to move to higher awareness .

[/i]

Frankly , i think Mr Siddharta was wrongly quoted . His message / finding was wrongly interpret due to human ego / selfishness to learn but more on "teaching" others of what he believed regards to Mr Siddharta finding .

"Ehi Passiko" like the buddha said, which means try it yourself. No one is asking you to put complete faith in those teachings, but you can test it out, try it out, if it benefits you, if you think it's true, then accept it. If not, reject it.

Yes Agreed

IMO, Life is too short to spend the next few years of your life seeking the truth that is already known.

All I wish is to explain to my daughter before I die so that she will not suffer of fear on aging / sickness / death and understand Buddha.

It's like not believing what you see in the science textbook, so you pretend that it doesn't exist and try to discover science all over again. When you could actually read the textbook, and conduct experiments to see if what's in the book is true. It's like discovering gravity all over again... Why not just test if gravity exists, if it's true, accept it, if it isn't, forget it.

The fact is too many "master" , too many "writing" can be easily considered as referral to Buddha and mis-leading . Too many cooks spoil the soup . Buddhism is now mixed with local culture / local belief with local practise due to what? DUE TO HUMAN EGO , everybody just want to teach .

The special thing about buddhism is that it can adapt into many cultures, and most of the time (if not always), not lose it's essence, not lose what the teaching is really about. It's like buddhism in Tibet and buddhism in China, in tibet, we have Vajrayana, which contains teachings of emptiness. And in China, we have Chan(Zen) Buddhism, which also teaches about emptiness. Some people like Chan buddhism and some people like Tibetan buddhism, but in essence, it's the same, they both teach the same things. However, some people still choose 1 over the other, it's not that they're entirely different, maybe on the appearance, they might be different, but in essence and some (if not all the) teachings, they're the same.

So, to sum all up, Firstly, your concern is that you're afraid that what may seem like the buddha's teachings might not be the buddha's teaching. In other words, what we have been reading all along might be false.

It's not bad to question, but yeah, like the buddha said before, Ehi Passiko, go see for yourself. Most of us would prefer to practice and test it out ourselves than actually trying to discover the dhamma all over again. That may be very admirable, however, like we all know, life is too short.

Secondly, you think that what some masters are saying might not be true.

Like wise, again, we're not going to tell you "IT IS TRUE! BELIEVE IT!". Just a nice "Ehi Passiko"

Thirdly, I don't quite understand your theory on energy.

Fourthly, you mentioned about teachers becoming teachers because of their ego.

To be honest I'm not very well versed in the dharma, so I wouldn't dare touch the subject of ego. But I see having more teachers not as a problem, as long as they teach in accord with dharma, and is seen and tested by buddhist followers all around the world, if it's true, people will follow it, if not, people will avoid it.

Yeah so Ehi Passiko, dont be christopher columbus and discover america all over again, read the map, sail there and see if it exists. Same goes for the dharma, read up on what already exists, test and see if it's true, if it's true, accept it, if not, reject it.

Piwk you said"The Buddha dared. Those who followed Him dared. Back in 1999, I dared. What about you? "Thanks for the challange , but I belief each living / non living must have his way , like cow & cat , stone & plant , you dont expect them to read books...right ? We are so fortunate that Siddharta introduced Buddha to us but for own awareness we have to find it , is all in our own mind .You said"You heard of the crude old Malay saying right: 'cakap serupa bikin' ('talk matching action' or 'walk the talk')The Buddha has 'cakap' and by His Life has 'bikin'. What about you and me?Siddharta had search and perhaps "in" emptiness , as for me I still buy "toto" I wish to be him but I am not him but I hope my daughter be like him .The answer lies in our hearts isn't it? "

Buddha is always in our mind , too far to reach too near to see . I can only hope to move to higher awareness as fast as possible to be closer to this energy .

In Buddha , I can only know my self from my awareness but see myself from how other might feel of me . As I am aware that I am sincere here seeking better awareness but my action might lead to other believing I am ego , but I must aware of my intention but perhaps change my action .Common sense is a part from my own awareness , is from me not from some body else . In all judgement I must aware and act according to my common sense .In search of Buddha , if we see what we wish to see , hear what we wish to hear ,believe what others think is right without concerning our awareness , we will always see our self or even worst see others not Buddha .So is that fit your common sense ?

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I don't think that SCEe is going to take our advice.

Best,Laura

Hi Laura , sorry if I show to you that i am too ego to learn anything . In Buddha we just cant see our self , we can only know our self from how others think / know / act / belief / feel in us .

If we think we know our self , maybe we are seeing what we wish to see and that is selfish .

I will be more aware and learn .

ThksEe

Hi Ee,

I understand what you're saying, that maybe we project onto others what we see in ourselves. At least, I think that's what you're saying. I think that's very true. I don't think you're egotistical, I just didn't think you were really listening to feedback from others. Thank you for your attitude of interest in learning and Buddhism, this is the right place to adopt that attitude. I hope it continues!

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I don't think that SCEe is going to take our advice.

Best,Laura

Hi Laura , sorry if I show to you that i am too ego to learn anything . In Buddha we just cant see our self , we can only know our self from how others think / know / act / belief / feel in us .

If we think we know our self , maybe we are seeing what we wish to see and that is selfish .

I will be more aware and learn .

ThksEe

Hi Ee,

I understand what you're saying, that maybe we project onto others what we see in ourselves. At least, I think that's what you're saying. I think that's very true. I don't think you're egotistical, I just didn't think you were really listening to feedback from others. Thank you for your attitude of interest in learning and Buddhism, this is the right place to adopt that attitude. I hope it continues!

Kindly,Laura

Hi laura , is hard for me to explain my view , so I hope you could try since my english is not good .You see , to me " awareness" is a measurement of how much we understand Buddha but " knowledge" in our current world is measurement of knowning .Is two different topic .As from my "awareness" I am aware that I am sincere of my intention of learning here but my action might lead you to think I am ego .Your remarks infact provide me " knowledge" of my action , the information that maybe not known to me .For that information , I should feel glad of your kindness / concern for my own betterment .In Buddha , we can only "see" our self from others but know ourself from our own "awareness"

That is my point when I say all books / texts should only limited as knowledge but NOT referral to Buddha .All kind of info / feedbacks is "knowledge" , only by self exploration free from ego we will gain our awareness...