00:00:55 <glx> no random in supybot without a plugin
00:01:23 <Samu> just picked the first 8 to test
00:02:24*** FLHerne has quit IRC00:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> if rand(3) returns 4, you might be in trouble
00:23:33 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/YBiBP00:24:07 <Samu> bad start for civilai
00:24:15 <Samu> the one in the middle
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08:28:07*** keoz has quit IRC08:28:17*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC08:31:41*** Pulec has quit IRC08:43:19*** Pulec has joined #openttd08:51:18*** FLHerne has joined #openttd08:57:19*** Wolf01 has joined #openttd09:06:18*** JacobD88 has joined #openttd09:10:50*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd09:11:17 <andythenorth_> o/
09:14:16 <Wolf01> o/
09:15:03*** Antheus has quit IRC09:15:12*** Antheus has joined #openttd09:17:57*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC09:21:34 <V453000> north unstable today
09:22:01*** keoz has joined #openttd09:26:03*** tokai has joined #openttd09:26:04*** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai09:32:21*** tokai|noir has quit IRC09:55:41*** TheMask96 has quit IRC09:56:53*** TheMask96 has joined #openttd10:09:25*** JezK has quit IRC10:10:32*** Sova has quit IRC10:30:56*** Samu has joined #openttd10:31:14 <Samu> hi all
10:33:24 <Samu> I'm trying to come up with "settings every ai author would agree"
10:33:44 <Samu> any hint?
10:34:21 <Samu> the only rule is... no NewGRF
10:39:19 <Samu> should I create a topic asking for it?
10:41:41*** Sova has joined #openttd10:46:46*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd10:48:52 <andythenorth_> Connection up, connection down :p
10:49:00 <andythenorth_> Is way of things
10:51:58*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC11:03:42*** sla_ro|master has quit IRC11:09:44 <Samu> anyone know what is this setting?
11:09:46 <Samu> https://wiki.openttd.org/Heightmap_rotation11:10:59 <Samu> game_creation.heightmap_rotation
11:11:26 <Samu> ah, I think I know
11:11:34 <FLHerne> Samu: Images are usually displayed with horizontal/vertical edges, OTTD maps are diagonal
11:12:35 <Samu> does it also work with generated maps'
11:12:37 <Samu> ?
11:13:07 <FLHerne> So the heightmap has to be rotated 45° in either direction to align with the OTTD world
11:13:29 <FLHerne> No? That doesn't really make sense
11:15:19 <Samu> ok
11:21:25*** Krycho has joined #openttd11:21:38 <Krycho> Hello!??!
11:22:14 <FLHerne> Krycho: Hi
11:23:07 <FLHerne> So punctuation!‽¿≠
11:23:19 <Krycho> I would like to install an openttd server on a "Pi Zero" I have at home, but I can't seem to find a guide for it, you guys have any idea how I could do it?
11:23:27 <Krycho> ¿?¿?¿? :)
11:24:15 <Krycho> the pi zero is running Jessie and I am running it headless via SSH
11:25:09 <peter1138> probably "apt-get install openttd" would do the job
11:25:23 <FLHerne> The standard openttd build will run as a server, there aren't any headless packages
11:25:39 <peter1138> may not be the latest release though
11:26:05 <Alkel_U3> although jessie has quite old version in its repository
11:26:19 <Krycho> so id have to download it run it with it connected to a screen ?
11:26:32 <peter1138> no
11:27:02 <Alkel_U3> you just run "openttd -D"
11:28:37 <Samu> does vehicle.smoke_amount has any impact on vehicle performance?
11:28:46 <Samu> is it only for looks?
11:28:48 <Alkel_U3> if there isn't a build for your platform, you might need to compile from source
11:28:54 <FLHerne> Samu: Looks
11:29:22 <Samu> ok
11:29:51 <Krycho> should I be able to see the game on servers after running openttd -D ?
11:30:07 <peter1138> you'll need to configure it
11:30:38 <peter1138> there's a load of settings for ... everything
11:31:19 <Krycho> I see it there but it tells me server version is 1.4.4
11:31:33 <peter1138> yeah
11:31:37 <Alkel_U3> have fun https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_(GNU/)Linux_and_*BSD
11:31:38 <peter1138> so it's too old :(
11:31:47 <Alkel_U3> (it's not too complicated)
11:32:44 <peter1138> well compiling on a pi is not very fun
11:32:44 <Krycho> the problem is the first command it gives me on the site says "E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list"
11:33:23 <Alkel_U3> I did it on Cubieboard2 with Jessie, it's just long :-)
11:33:33 <Krycho> would it be easier to run on a kimsufi server ?
11:33:36 <Krycho> on debian ?
11:33:56 <Alkel_U3> if you have kimsufi server, yes
11:34:20 <Krycho> yeah
11:34:33 <Krycho> just use it as seedbox and teamspeak server xD
11:34:52 <Krycho> any step by step guide for it? cos im dumb as shit
11:34:59 <Alkel_U3> I personaly have very good experience with forpsi VPS
11:35:04 <Krycho> dir
11:35:09 <Krycho> woops xD
11:35:12 <peter1138> ls
11:35:55 <Samu> extend_vehicle_life = 50 - does it mean a vehicle that has a max age of 20 years, would get 70 instead?
11:36:09 <Samu> or is it the model availability that is extended?
11:36:21 <Samu> never tried this setting
11:36:42 <Alkel_U3> the Zero also won't be able to run at full speed during lategame anyway, IMHO. Even the faster, dualcore CB2 was running just so-so a few years back.
11:36:58 <Samu> ok just tried it
11:37:10 <Samu> lel, vehicles max age 70
11:37:16 <Samu> i don't think i like this setting
11:38:26 <Alkel_U3> Krycho: download from here according to your architecture https://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable , install.
11:39:06 <FLHerne> Alkel_U3: It's a RasPi, there are no such files
11:39:45 <Alkel_U3> FLHerne: he decided to switch to kimsufi server if I understood correctly
11:40:07 <Krycho> im torn xD
11:40:11 <FLHerne> Alkel_U3: Oh, I see
11:40:38 <Alkel_U3> server on zero won't be too playable, anyway, I think
11:40:39 <Krycho> but wont it give me the same problems?
11:41:17 <Alkel_U3> no because the page I linked has ready packages for Jessie on Intel CPUs
11:42:04 <Alkel_U3> just dowload from there and install it (dpkg -i nameofyouropenttdpackage.deb)
11:42:46*** TheMask96 has quit IRC11:44:11*** TheMask96 has joined #openttd11:44:37 <peter1138> yeah, prebuilt for x86_64
11:44:57 <Krycho> pi is arm
11:45:05 <peter1138> run it on the kimsufi, it'll perform better anyway
11:46:37 <Samu> allow landscaping under buildings, tracks, etc... is this the autoslope?
11:46:50 <Samu> the description slightly changed if it is
11:46:55 <Samu> wiki is not updated
11:50:33 <Samu> build_on_slopes is no longer an advanced setting
11:50:42 <Samu> wiki not updated ugh :(
11:57:24 <Samu> train_signal_side is only visual too, right?
12:02:57 <Wolf01> Yes
12:12:31*** Snail has joined #openttd12:12:39 <Samu> economy.give_money
12:12:45 <Samu> can AIs give money to each other?
12:14:57 <Samu> and shares?
12:15:14 <Samu> well i'm testing them solo, but just curious
12:18:03 <Wolf01> Mmmh, no frog and no north guy, many questions
12:19:55*** Krycho has quit IRC12:25:08*** JacobD88 has quit IRC12:25:20 <Wolf01> Also, is it possible to fix or at least ignore the overloaded operators "expression mus have a constant value" error in enums?
12:25:29 <Wolf01> *must
12:25:53 <peter1138> enums must have a constant value, so...
12:26:04 <Wolf01> And they have
12:26:15 <Wolf01> It's the operator fault
12:26:17*** keoz has quit IRC12:29:33*** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd12:30:41*** Xaroth has quit IRC12:30:53*** Xaroth has joined #openttd12:31:09*** keoz has joined #openttd12:35:17 <Samu> topic posted
12:35:21 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=75176 i hope it's not in vain
12:40:05*** sim-al2 has joined #openttd12:50:21*** Snail has quit IRC12:59:27*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd12:59:52 <Wolf01> o/
13:02:11*** keoz has quit IRC13:02:26*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC13:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only use operators which the compiler can evaluat on compile time, otherwise the result cannot be a constant
13:21:33 <Wolf01> Every enum has this problem if there's a value set with bitwise or
13:22:07 <Wolf01> like ROAD_X = ROAD_SW | ROAD_NE,
13:30:25*** glx has joined #openttd13:30:26*** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx13:38:53*** keoz has joined #openttd13:43:01*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd13:44:40*** keoz has quit IRC13:45:11*** keoz has joined #openttd13:45:57*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC13:57:40 <supermop_> yo
14:03:22*** Sova has quit IRC14:07:45*** Jaenster has quit IRC14:07:45*** Jaenster has joined #openttd14:08:09*** sim-al2 has quit IRC14:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, then you can't overload the | operator...
14:11:59 <Wolf01> Me? It's in the vanilla code, and every time I open some sources it floods with errors
14:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't help you.
14:12:52 <Wolf01> And the poor wolf needs to search for his error in the middle of the others :(
14:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds overzealous
14:14:20 <Wolf01> Google seem to not be really helpful, Stackoverflow has something but not for this exact case
14:26:45*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd14:27:13 <Wolf01> o/
14:27:37 <Wolf01> FYI: pushed catenary flag
14:28:32 <Wolf01> No gui, no split, only flag+drawing (no catenary is drawn atm as the bit is always false)
14:30:07*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC14:35:06*** mindlesstux_ has joined #openttd14:38:36 <Rubidium> Samu: I have no idea
14:40:39*** mindlesstux has quit IRC14:40:39*** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux14:45:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/E0l2GDP.png such a clusterfuck
14:53:07 <V453000> ez
14:53:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> Stupid "organic" junctions
14:53:33*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd14:53:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> The north-south line crossing over/under the east-west line did not exist at the time of construction and design
14:54:12 <Ethereal_Whisper> So it's a haphazard addition lol
14:54:36 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 nice work on catenary :)
14:55:47 <Wolf01> ;)
14:56:50*** Sergey has joined #openttd14:56:59 <Sergey> Help me
14:57:17 <Ethereal_Whisper> How can we?
14:57:18 * Sergey slaps Eddi|zuHause around a bit with a large fishbot
14:57:20*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC14:57:29 * Ethereal_Whisper aims a bow and arrow at Sergey
14:58:08 <Sergey> How create owerlapping tiles ?
14:58:27 <Sergey> Sorry my bad English
14:58:46 <Sergey> How create GRF
14:59:30*** Sergey has quit IRC15:00:05*** SergeyNem has joined #openttd15:00:09*** JacobD88 has joined #openttd15:00:24 <SergeyNem> How create GRF ?
15:01:06*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd15:03:54*** SergeyNem has quit IRC15:03:54*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC15:03:54*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd15:05:35*** supermop_ has quit IRC15:10:20 <andythenorth_> Ships
15:10:20 <andythenorth_> Tricky
15:10:44 * andythenorth_ still seeking basic schema
15:11:01 <V453000> yo
15:13:33 <andythenorth_> Yo
15:14:06 <andythenorth_> Small and fast or small and slow? :p
15:14:13 <V453000> BIG AND FAST
15:14:17 * andythenorth_ no context
15:15:25 <Ethereal_Whisper> Ah, the age-old latency vs. throughput discussion
15:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> slow and cargo decay modifier
15:19:20 <V453000> andythenorth_: answer is trains
15:22:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> Got a marine station not close enough to the coast? The answer is terraforming
15:22:30*** Ethereal_Whisper has left #openttd15:22:33*** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd15:22:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> There, fixed my scroll issue
15:26:26*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC15:30:09*** supermop_ has joined #openttd15:40:14*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd15:41:03*** andythen_ has joined #openttd15:41:03*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC15:41:55*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd15:42:07*** andythen_ has quit IRC15:42:40 <Wolf01> Really unstable today, eh?
15:43:23 <andythenorth_> Hotel wifi, on a phone :p
15:44:18 <Wolf01> Where are you?
15:44:45*** Alberth has joined #openttd15:44:45*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth15:44:50 <Wolf01> o/
15:45:17 <Alberth> hi hi
15:51:27*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC16:36:53*** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd16:37:09*** alask0ud has joined #openttd16:54:08*** aard has joined #openttd17:08:23 <Samu> GDDR6 is coming in 2018, i thought GDDR stuff would phase out
17:09:45 <Samu> Samsung plans to have 100 TB SSDs ready by 2020
17:09:51 <Samu> RIP HDD
17:12:10 <Samu> Seagate showcased a 60 TB SSD, 3.5' form factor, finally someone is making 3.5' SSDs
17:13:27 <Samu> 60 TB SSD! and here I am with my meager 1 TB HDD
17:13:34 <Wolf01> Do you think this argument belongs to this channel? We talk about Factorio or Europa Universalis here
17:14:06 <Wolf01> :D
17:14:13 <Samu> :(
17:16:45 <Alberth> it's all equally on-topic :p
17:17:08 <Alberth> also, you missed lego as topic :)
17:18:01 <Wolf01> Lego doesn't need to be on topic, it's always a fitting argument ;)
17:18:25 <Alberth> although I fail to see why you'd ever need a 100TB disk
17:19:16 <Wolf01> Risk of losing 100TB of stuff in one single fault?
17:19:36 <Wolf01> Better having 100 x 1TB SSD
17:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> of course you'd put them in a raid 1/5/6/... to prevent data loss
17:31:06 <Alkel_U3> 100TB storage? How else could we move onto SupermegaultraHD™5D movies?
17:31:44 <Wolf01> I still watch DVDs
17:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that argument always reminds me how when CDs came out which were larger than any existing HDDs, and people said "you don't need a HDD anymore"
17:33:03 <Wolf01> Then with BR-D was the same, and something popped out even with holodisks
17:33:36 <Alkel_U3> as I only have access to an HD projector, I'd probably watch DVDs, too, but I needed that fourth SATA port for another HDD :-)
17:34:00 <Alkel_U3> too small disks and too low-end board
17:34:41*** Gja has joined #openttd17:35:13 <Alkel_U3> now it's demoted to a coffee cup holder without data connection
17:35:51 <Alkel_U3> oh, that reminds me of a story :D http://thedailywtf.com/articles/ITAPPMONROBOT17:52:02*** Wormnest has joined #openttd17:59:19*** frosch123 has joined #openttd17:59:28 <Wolf01> Quak
18:00:25 <frosch123> hoi
18:09:11 <SpComb> frosch123: http://skrblz.qmsk.net/~spbot/logs/openttd-20160822.tar.xz18:09:34 <SpComb> frosch123: it's irssi default theme log format with HH:MM:SS timestamps, with files named by YYYY-MM-DD
18:12:16 <SpComb> using the EET/EEST timezone, i.e. finnish localtime with DST transitions
18:16:24 <frosch123> thanks
18:16:28 <frosch123> sounds like a sed task :)
18:16:31*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd18:18:27 <andythenorth_> Connection stays up about 2 mins :p
18:18:42 <andythenorth_> I think this phone drops it when it sleeps
18:18:52 * andythenorth_ does not understand phones
18:19:21 <frosch123> the phone is supposed to understand you :)
18:20:20 <SpComb> frosch123: just sed won't help you with the 03:xx:xx timestamps on 2015-10-25 :P
18:20:34 <SpComb> but the irclogs code isn't smart enough to correctly handle the DST transitions either
18:21:04 <SpComb> and I wasn't smart enough to just convert all the old logs to UTC first
18:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: set it up to not drop connections that are idle
18:28:18 <Samu> darn bankrupts
18:28:36 <Samu> could the bankrupt system be changed somehow?
18:29:14 <Samu> ais disappearing with huge profits is ... meh
18:29:32 <Samu> could there be an option to disable bankrupting?
18:29:35*** sla_ro|master has quit IRC18:29:58 <Samu> :( what can I do to avoid ai bankrutping with profits?
18:30:13 <SpComb> and I totally have a plan for replacing SpBot when the machine it's running on goes away, it just involves implementing a cluster of IRC bots written in Go, using etcd for dynamic configuration and writing messages into a kafka queue that gets loaded into an elasticsearch cluster, with some Django web frontend that includes progressive enhancement of some AngularJS components like a websocket streaming stuff from the same kafka queues!
18:30:26*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC18:30:38 <SpComb> I would just need a couple months of development time and a nice Docker cluster to run it all on, and it would probably just end up logging #openttd, so I think I'm not going to bother :P
18:30:48*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd18:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my buzzword detector exploded
18:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause> can't we just add logging to DorpsGek instead?
18:31:29 <Samu> EpicTrans should name his companies as EPIC BANKRUPTING COMPANY
18:31:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: psst, dorpsgek always wanted a friend
18:31:59 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: frosch123 said he had something as a replacement, dunno what exactly
18:32:23 <frosch123> http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&page=logs <- the same thing that logs all the other channels
18:32:49 <Wolf01> frosch123, andythenorth_, I'm wondering what I need to do on NotRoadTypes: let's take the StreetTypes, there will be a "Normal" type and more types like "Country", "Trolleybus" and "Freeway" with different limits and stuff?
18:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> @logs
18:33:03 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd18:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that needs updating, i suppose
18:33:21 <frosch123> not yet
18:33:58*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC18:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the default game will just have "normal", anything else added by NewGRF
18:34:45 <Wolf01> Just trying to figure out what are the "StreetTypes" :P
18:34:55*** Arveen has joined #openttd18:35:07 <frosch123> Wolf01: mostly graphical variations
18:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> cobble vs. asphalt, town vs. country, ...
18:35:13 <frosch123> like off-road stuff for heqs
18:35:19 <Wolf01> Because even the "normal" could be split into types
18:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you can't possibly prepare for all things NewGRF authors will come up with
18:36:03 <Wolf01> If it's visual only I could suggest a gui to set the bits for decorations
18:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (*vaguely points towards V453000*)
18:36:45*** Myhorta has joined #openttd18:36:48 <frosch123> Wolf01: with only 4 bits for the type, there are not many user options :p
18:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: one option that i had in mind was that "country" roads would be ignored by the town growth algorithm
18:37:24 <frosch123> but yes, "allow level crossing", "town growth speed", ... that stuff
18:37:34 <Wolf01> For example I wouldn't put a "road" and "road w/ catenary", because in future we could even have freeways with catenary for el-trucks
18:38:21 <Wolf01> (I always felt even the rails vs rails w/ catenary a duplication)
18:39:24 <Wolf01> But it's too late to change how the game works
18:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's not a "clean" duplication, e.g. "maglev with catenary" makes no sense
18:39:55 <Wolf01> So if we'll need catenary on a freeway, we'll need a freeway wi/ catenary type
18:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:42:04*** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd18:42:31 <Wolf01> Btw, nobody stops me to have maglev w/ catenary, or there's a hardcoded limitation?
18:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you could add a flag "maglev cannot have catenary", but then you'd artificially block a railtype slot
18:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming you'd want to reduce the railtype slots from 16 to 8, and have the other 8 automatically mapped to a "... with catenary" slot)
18:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it would probably simplify a few things, especially the GUI could just have a "... with catenary" button, but it'd reduce the flexibility a bit
18:47:48 <supermop_> Wolf01: Eddi|zuHause: what if the maglev train is propelled by the superconducting track, but uses catenary for powering the lights on board?
18:48:19 <Wolf01> You could have wireless charge
18:48:39 <supermop_> what if in tt land the catenary hanger's union is so strong they will strick if you build any fast track without catenary?
18:48:46 <supermop_> strike
18:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: the friction on catenary would pose a speed restriction
18:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> plus wear, and other stuff
18:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a terrible idea, really
18:51:06 <Wolf01> Yes, it reduces flexibility, but it's really more easy to understand, you have a button to set the catenary bit in every tile you want (even on bare land, maybe you have an electric tracked vehicle)... the downside is that it breaks the "convert rail" tool
18:52:29 <Wolf01> Which is another point I need to work on: understand what could be converted into the new type
18:53:09 <Wolf01> Specially when you have 2 types on the same tile
18:54:16 <Wolf01> For example, you have a straight road, suddenly a tram crossing (or even a rail crossing) and you are converting the road to "freeway type" which doesn't allow crossings
18:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what's there to consider? you can convert all roadtypes into other roadtypes, and all tramtypes into other tramtypes. if the combination is not allowed, or if an incompatible vehicle is on it, the conversion fails
18:57:06*** keoz has quit IRC18:57:51 <Wolf01> Yes
18:58:15 <Samu> does anyone know who works on EpicTrans?
18:58:23 <Samu> the author is still unknown
18:58:30 <Samu> at least for me
19:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the rail conversion originally failed when a vehicle is on it at all, but that was found too restrictive and annoying when converting to electric rail, because it results in forgotten bits and pathfinder errors
19:01:06 <Wolf01> I remember
19:01:26 <Samu> function GetAuthor() { return "Tovermodus"; }
19:01:30 <Samu> who's Tovermodus?
19:06:45*** Progman has joined #openttd19:10:40 <supermop_> catenary on empty land -> power lines -> all catenary must connect to a power plant or feeder station?
19:10:56 <supermop_> overhead electric boats?
19:14:39 <Rubidium> electric planes?
19:15:31 <Wolf01> Put lights in the sky to make landing corridors for planes
19:15:42*** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC19:17:42*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd19:17:53 <Samu> i'm investigating epictrans code, it looks similar to wrightai
19:18:02 <Samu> it does have german and english commentaries
19:18:08 <Samu> seems like copy pastes of other ais
19:18:28 <Samu> there's a OTVI part
19:18:31 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 there would be n newgrf defined extra types
19:19:26 <andythenorth_> I wanted to find a way to separate concerns - NotRoadTypes base patch, then extend for newgrf
19:19:44 <andythenorth_> Otherwise it's a big piece of work
19:19:52 <Wolf01> Yes, indeed
19:20:34 <andythenorth_> Newgrf requires defining spec for vehicles and road tiles
19:20:39 <andythenorth_> Updating tools
19:20:43 <andythenorth_> Etc
19:20:53 <Wolf01> I was just wondering why we had different types for just catenary
19:21:05 <andythenorth_> It will grow :D
19:23:00 <andythenorth_> But splitting street/tram is useful meanwhile imo
19:23:22 <andythenorth_> Especially I can now have a hotkey for autotram :)
19:23:32 <Wolf01> :D
19:29:45 <andythenorth_> bloody ships
19:29:55 <andythenorth_> Trains and trucks have a logic
19:30:19 <Wolf01> Ok, now we have a catenary bit and gui separation, and I'm too afraid to write ltrail_type.h and tamper with road_type.h
19:30:28 <andythenorth_> We have passenger vehicles, mail vehicles, different kinds of freight vehicles
19:30:38 <andythenorth_> Ships are just a mess :p
19:31:22 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 how completely do you envisage splitting ltrail and street?
19:31:58 <andythenorth_> Does anything remain shared? o_O
19:32:24 <Wolf01> Almost all is the same, functions only need type change on params
19:34:54 <Wolf01> I'm a bit confused and uncertain on what to do: lot of code duplication or lot of changes on existing code
19:36:39 <andythenorth_> I thought mostly change existing code, when I read it
19:36:40 <Wolf01> I think I'll start to make a hardcoded roadtype like "dirt road" and gradually remove the "tram" from "road"
19:37:02 <andythenorth_> Notably the drawing code seemed best unified
19:37:08 <Wolf01> Just to see all the changes it needs
19:37:12 <andythenorth_> Construction...maybe
19:37:19 <Wolf01> And then I'll remove the "dirt road" too
19:41:33 <andythenorth_> If you put a temporary 'dirt road' flag on a default vehicle, you'll find all the things like depot list etc that will need patched for newgrf types :)
19:43:07 <Wolf01> That's the fear I had... Also I might need to split vehicles too, but before or after the RoadTypes?
19:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> I'm a bit confused and uncertain on what to do: lot of code duplication or lot of changes on existing code <-- usually that's the point where inheritance comes in
19:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (or templates)
19:44:35 <Wolf01> I don't think the next patch will be a few lines of code
19:45:55*** Arveen has quit IRC19:48:07 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 vehicles should mostly be ok, all the heavy lifting on routing & drawing was done years agonfor trams
19:48:14 <andythenorth_> Ago *
19:48:49 <andythenorth_> I saw nothing to suggest splitting RoadVehicle into separate types
19:49:38 <Wolf01> For the same reason I don't find the need to split the RoadTypes, just unpacking them in the right way
19:50:29 <Wolf01> If in future we need another type which works like roads, as trains have (rail, monorail, maglev) we should just add another enum entry
19:50:51 <andythenorth_> +1
19:51:30 <Wolf01> Splitting gui and grf code is required
19:52:14 <Wolf01> A RoadType filter on vehicle list should already be there
19:53:19 <Wolf01> I could try to do something on unpacking the "StreetType", so I could test a convert tool between paved road and dirt road which don't affect the light rail
19:53:46 <Wolf01> Then remove the dirt road and let the grf doing the work
19:54:17 * Wolf01 needs to study how rail<->elrail works
20:00:06 <andythenorth_> I did some experiments with removal
20:00:19 <andythenorth_> Just need to clear the correct bits
20:00:45 <andythenorth_> iirc bridges and tunnels might be a PITA
20:01:01 <andythenorth_> Can't remember precisely
20:04:02*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC20:09:59*** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd20:15:36*** gelignite has joined #openttd20:17:43*** supermop__ has joined #openttd20:20:43*** andythenorth has joined #openttd20:21:14 <andythenorth> Maybe the tablet irc client is less stupid than the phone one :p
20:23:08*** supermop_ has quit IRC20:23:21 <Wolf01> :D
20:23:23 <andythenorth> horsepower for ships.
20:23:31 <andythenorth> ?
20:23:39 <Wolf01> Put kids to sleep and stole the tablet?
20:23:40 <andythenorth> draft :p
20:24:00 <andythenorth> Yup kids asleep, taken ipad :p
20:24:40 <andythenorth> Ships only have 2 dimensions, capacity and speed
20:24:55*** andythenorth_ has quit IRC20:25:02 <andythenorth> and speed is not useful, because there.
20:25:19 <frosch123> loading speed :)
20:25:29 <andythenorth> there's no reason to choose anything but fastest
20:25:47 <andythenorth> Loading speed is possible useful, yes
20:25:57*** sim-al2 has joined #openttd20:26:36*** Alberth has left #openttd20:29:24*** sla_ro|master has quit IRC20:30:29 <supermop__> andythenorth: i had a long rable yesterday about how granularity always beats capacity curently
20:30:45 <supermop__> no reason to use 1 600t instead of 2 300t
20:31:28 <supermop__> unless the big boat has much lower running cost, or fast load speed,
20:34:15 <Rubidium> or you're reaching the ship limit
20:36:13 <andythenorth> Big ones look cool
20:36:20 <andythenorth> Is the main reason
20:37:10 <andythenorth> In original FISH there was one 360t ship that refitted everything, and was basically the boss choice for most routes :p
20:37:33 <andythenorth> The bigger ones were pointless :p
20:38:16 <andythenorth> I'm not saying I *am* working on a new ship set, but if I was, it might not feature large ships
20:57:45*** andythenorth has quit IRC20:58:17*** andythenorth has joined #openttd21:01:31*** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC21:05:08 <Wolf01> Mmmh, the problem is: how can I have only 2 RoadTypes in the same tile?
21:06:22*** andythenorth has quit IRC21:06:25*** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd21:06:28 <Wolf01> If I have 3 RoadTypes, 2 streets and 1 tram, I need to have just 1 street and 1 tram
21:06:51 <Wolf01> Not all of them or even 2 street types
21:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> we have debated that for years. do you really allow multiple roadtypes? or only one roadtype and one tramtype? how to restrict trolleybus catenary to only some road bits?
21:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there was never a clear answer what would be best
21:09:02 <Wolf01> Exactly
21:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> more flexibility needs more bits stored in the map
21:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine 4 road bits A,B,C,D with roads, then a tram going B,D and a trolleybus route going A,D. how to have no catenary on C?
21:11:34 <Wolf01> Yes, that's a problem we should address, but I can't even start to change this, rails are really different to roads
21:11:58 <Wolf01> Because you can only have one railtype per tile
21:12:18 <Wolf01> (that's the problem with diagonal rails of different types)
21:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there were some attempts to alter that
21:12:33 <supermop__> 2 railtypes per tile would be nice on diagonals
21:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> with "stacked tiles" and whatnot
21:13:18 <Wolf01> The problem is that I'm stuck at functions, which all use "RoadTypes" type
21:13:27*** andythenorth has joined #openttd21:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc had somthing about that, and there's cirdan's fork
21:15:24 <andythenorth> Wolf01 one street type and one tram type per tile
21:15:33 <andythenorth> Anything else gets horrible
21:15:33 <Wolf01> Yes
21:15:44 <andythenorth> Really horrible :)
21:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but then, if trolleybus is a street type, you can't restrict the catenary to only some road bits, which will look horrible
21:16:15 <supermop__> 255 road types per tile
21:16:18*** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd21:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> or you construct the catenary from adjacent tile data
21:16:25 <Wolf01> If I add one RoadType to the enum, it explodes because it looks for 3 road types on the same tile
21:16:36 <TrueBrain> @logs
21:16:39 <TrueBrain> I BROKE IT
21:16:49 <andythenorth> Construct catenary using similar magic to rail catenary
21:17:09*** aard has quit IRC21:17:15 <supermop__> 4096x4096 tram types per tile
21:17:22 <TrueBrain> @logs
21:17:23 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&page=logs21:17:42 <andythenorth> How many ship types per tile?
21:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain, frosch123: can we have a page that directly links to the latest log entry, instead of this overview page?
21:18:22 <supermop__> 0
21:18:58 <TrueBrain> NO! <3
21:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's 2 clicks and an "End" button press now!
21:19:22 <andythenorth> Squid has 25 ships. My current idea for scheme requires 84 :p
21:19:25 <TrueBrain> mainly because I have no idea how :p
21:20:54 <TrueBrain> @logs
21:20:54 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd21:21:00 <TrueBrain> smaller URL, same result :P
21:22:52*** Wormnest has quit IRC21:23:14 <TrueBrain> @jump
21:23:14 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: howhigh?
21:23:19 <TrueBrain> lol :D
21:24:04*** Progman has quit IRC21:24:06 <frosch123> @logs
21:24:06 <DorpsGek> frosch123: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd21:24:10 <Wolf01> Oh, the stats, I missed those
21:24:38 <frosch123> Wolf01: wait for tomorrow
21:24:44 <frosch123> they are coop only currently
21:24:52 <Wolf01> Yes, I noticed
21:24:53 <frosch123> completely eddi-free so to say
21:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
21:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what i always disliked about stats was that the "big numbebrs" usually are from some guys who only ever said 5 lines
21:28:49*** Wormnest has joined #openttd21:30:51 <andythenorth> Grr
21:30:56 <andythenorth> Ships :p
21:31:06 <andythenorth> Maybe sleep will solve them
21:32:31*** andythenorth has quit IRC21:35:01*** Wormnest has quit IRC21:35:17*** Wormnest_ has quit IRC21:35:23 <Wolf01> Yes, I should take a break too
21:37:22*** tokai|noir has joined #openttd21:37:22*** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir21:42:12 <Wolf01> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J3roEFBMl00/maxresdefault.jpg wonderful
21:42:34 <Wolf01> Here's your answer eddi
21:44:21*** tokai has quit IRC21:45:57*** Gja has quit IRC21:46:31 <supermop__> Wolf01: ive been there
21:50:58 <Wolf01> http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/tales/lythgoe85.htm nice, maybe andy could add these to iron horse
21:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what was my question?
21:56:31 <Wolf01> Picky :D
21:58:41 <Samu> the extension .log is not allowed
21:58:45 <Samu> t.t
21:59:10 <Samu> is .txt allowed on forum?
21:59:53 <Samu> oh yeah it is
22:00:15 <Samu> time to rename all my log files
22:00:29 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=57616&p=1175540#p117554022:01:40*** frosch123 has quit IRC22:07:38 <Samu> notepad++ is locking up left and right lately...
22:07:47 <Samu> after the last windows 10 update
22:08:14 <Wolf01> What?
22:08:48*** Compu has quit IRC22:09:06 <NGC3982> Why is the extention .log not allowed?
22:15:21*** Compu has joined #openttd22:15:41 <argoneus> good evening train friends
22:15:51 <Wolf01> o/
22:25:23*** supermop_ has joined #openttd22:31:54*** supermop__ has quit IRC22:36:39*** gelignite has quit IRC22:36:56*** Myhorta has quit IRC22:45:04*** supermop__ has joined #openttd22:50:59*** supermop_ has quit IRC22:57:32*** keoz has joined #openttd23:06:13*** Snail has joined #openttd23:17:32 <Wolf01> 'night
23:17:42*** Wolf01 has quit IRC23:36:27*** txtsd has quit IRC23:36:31*** txtsd has joined #openttd23:39:19*** JacobD88 has quit IRC