_ vga=788 (or any particular value) is not adequate for distribution. I would suggest either:
_ using something similar to what GParted/Clonezilla Live does, prompting questions while booting; and/or,
_ having a visible "first" icon on the desktop so to adjust screen resolution; and/or,
_ having an initial "settings wizard" as Slacko and other Puppies have.

I have included lxrandr for the next release to adjust screen resolution.

Regarding parted, fdisk, mtools, dosfstools,... For GParted to support different tasks for different filesystems, it requires some "background" packages. You can see the available / allowed tasks in one of the GParted menus, where it also lists the tools it uses / requires for each task. There might be some cases where GParted lists a set of alternative tools and can use just one of them.

Based on Debian's package system, I am pretty sure gparted pulls in all the necessary dependencies during build.

Now, regarding the name... IMHO it shall not start with "Debian...", as you are not making a distro to be distributed by the Debian community. If not for anything else, at least for some potential legal issue? (who knows)

In that case, wouldn't FreeDOS UBCD (FDUBCD) have the same issue?

Any chance you could mention what changes were required? It might help for other similar customizations.

I understand what you are suggesting, but I would prefer to use the standard way of customizing the live build i.e. "includes.chroot" and "includes.binary" instead of hacking the generated ISO image. You have to run through the live build process to understand what I mean.

_ One or at most two Work-spaces by default, instead of 4. If taking out the whole feature would reduce dependencies (required resources, size, RAM, etc.) I would suggest taking out the Workspaces feature altogether (after all, this is a special-purpose snapshot Live system, not a full-feature OS).

I don't think taking it out will reduce much of anything, since it is integral to icewm and not external. It will be easy to restrict to only one workspace though, but I'd like to KIV for now and get more feedback before acting.

IMHO, it is fine to allow the user to add more Workspaces, but the *default* doesn't need to be 4. A default of 1 Workspace should reduce required resources.

_ Clonezilla should also have its own Syslinux boot option, so to be able to skip the DE.

Don't quite understand this. Clonezilla is a Debian package that was included in the live build. What does that have to do with a syslinux boot option?

Since Clonezilla can run in text mode, PMagic added the option (in the Syslinux menu) to directly start Clonezilla without having to first start the DE. In fact Clonezilla Live does the same. I am suggesting to have an equivalent possibility in the Syslinux menu.

_ Almost all files under the "isolinux/" directory are either unnecessary, not used, or inadequate.

The files under "isolinux" are generated by live build. I edited some of those files by using "config/includes.binary".

I am suggesting similar improvements to what recently GParted and Clonezilla Live have done, which eliminates the "isolinux/" directory leaving "syslinux/" only and simplifies the procedure to use them from a bootable USB drive. In older versions, there was duplicity of files, and the procedure to build a GParted/Clonezilla Live USB implied renaming and editing directories and cfg files.

In fact, I would say Debian itself should do it too (so all its derivatives would benefit from the change too).

The latest versions of GParted/Clonezilla Live use "syslinux/" only (for both media types, optical and USB mass storage). If you need some direction to directly modify the ISO-building scripts for this particular purpose, perhaps you could contact Steven Shiau by email.

One additional advantage of this change would be that some scripts and tools already used by GParted and Clonezilla Live would be applicable for this distro too (e.g. makeboot.sh, makeboot.bat, Tuxboot, and even some of their tutorials).

Eliminating the unused c32 modules and the cfg files just makes sense. I could have suggested simplifying the "syslinux/" directory even further (while still keeping it user-friendly). But if more boot entries would be available (as that one for Clonezilla I mentioned before), then keeping menu.c32 could be useful. Thus, I "paused" my suggestion about it there.

Victor Chew wrote:

_ vga=788 (or any particular value) is not adequate for distribution. I would suggest either:
_ using something similar to what GParted/Clonezilla Live does, prompting questions while booting; and/or,
_ having a visible "first" icon on the desktop so to adjust screen resolution; and/or,
_ having an initial "settings wizard" as Slacko and other Puppies have.

I have included lxrandr for the next release to adjust screen resolution.

Great. IMHO, any specific "vga=xyz" code included by default is still not adequate for distribution, and a clear icon at the left-upper corner of the desktop is very convenient (specially for newbies). Without an adequate screen resolution, the DE is useless (specially for newbies).

Regarding parted, fdisk, mtools, dosfstools,... For GParted to support different tasks for different filesystems, it requires some "background" packages. You can see the available / allowed tasks in one of the GParted menus, where it also lists the tools it uses / requires for each task. There might be some cases where GParted lists a set of alternative tools and can use just one of them.

Based on Debian's package system, I am pretty sure gparted pulls in all the necessary dependencies during build.

The key word would be "necessary" dependencies. For instance, if the adequate ntfs-related tools are not included, GParted can still be used, but the "supported fs tasks" would be reduced. See the respective menu in GParted.

For example, without the background packages, GParted could still create partitions, but it could not format them.

(BTW, since I just mentioned it, the latest SysRescueCD does not include the antivirus database in the ISO images any longer; it allows their download/update by the user, similarly to PMagic.)

Now, regarding the name... IMHO it shall not start with "Debian...", as you are not making a distro to be distributed by the Debian community. If not for anything else, at least for some potential legal issue? (who knows)

In that case, wouldn't FreeDOS UBCD (FDUBCD) have the same issue?

Maybe; but "FreeDOS" is the kernel (although clearly most people refer to it as the whole distribution of DOS-based tools, including the kernel). So here the parallel would be with "Linux" (the kernel), while "Debian" is the name of the distribution(s) (GNU/Linux distro, or GNU/Hurd for a different kernel).

This is why you would find names as "Linux Mint Debian Edition" (with "Debian" not being used before "Mint"), but also "Simplicity Linux" (with "Linux" after the name of the distro), and also "Linux Mint" (without mentioning "Ubuntu" as its base), or "Antix" (which uses "Linux" as kernel and it is related to "MEPIS", but it doesn't mention them as part of the name, only in its web/forum/announcements/news/credits...).

Note that "Debian" is the main (and only) name, and it supports multiple architectures, more than one kernel (Linux and Hurd, at least), more than one kernel type (i486, x86_64), multiple DE (say GNOME and XFCE or whichever else), CD media and DVD media, "old stable" / "stable" / "testing" / "unstable" / "experimental",... OTHO, UBCD ISOs need to be identified by date of snapshot and whether it is the traditional basic UBCD or the Linux distro ISO image.

So, as long as these are snapshots of "Debian testing", and only one base is used at a time, I would limit the name to an initial "UBCD", then perhaps "Linux" (so to reduce potential confusion with the traditional UBCD base ISO image) and a "yyyyMMdd" (similar to PMagic). They completely and clearly define the current ISOs, at least for now.

fdisk is not used by gparted or parted. Historically fdisk was included as a fail over location. parted by script can be got todo everything fdisk does and more.

Victor Chew debian has recommended(addons) packages and dependancies. With gparted on livecd you will be wanting to add all the addons as well.

ady fdisk is not a part of gparted these days. Only reason why some disks have it is they have scripts that use it or are old and have it as a back up for when gparted/parted combination was not as stable as it is today. Everything else I agreed with.

ady Freedos naming is horible confusion if you don't use "" and not aware they could not make up their minds at times so something have 2 to 3 names. Freedos is the distrobution. The kernel of freedos name is "Freedos Kernel" or "FDOS kernel" or"fdkernel". "FDOS kernel" is trying to be exterminated for usage due to the nasty joke FDOS equals. Yes "Freedos Kernel" and "fdkernel" are the two current names of the kernel of freedos. The one thing we have to give to Linux is no confusion over what the kernel is called.

Debian or Freedos as first word in name for something ubcd wiill be offensive to both projects. Debian or Freedos as first part of name they use for items they host. Yes if we could get Debian to agree to host and help with care of the live cd then we could use Debian at start otherwise we should not or we will face trademark enforcement. Freedos does not have the will normally to send legal team over it but it would still be disrepectful and possibly legally hazard.

As last word like Ubcd debian would most likely be fine with debian. Even so with using debian https://www.debian.org/trademark its most likely a good idea to email them and ask not wait for debian trademark enforcement team to catchup with you.(yes debian does have a trademark enforcement team that is just for that)

I hate dealing with trademarks it always equals emails and paperwork. Remember in writing is the rule of trademark. If it in writing with a valid signature saying you can do it your are safe. Otherwise the trademark holder reserve right to change mind on you.

Victor Chew I hate all this i dotting and t crossing with the next person.

I have used it on a number of occasions on different PCs, and have been quite happy with it so far. It is able to copy files from NTFS partitions to external USB drives, resize (GParted) and rescue partitions (TestDisk), connect to the network and browse the Web, scan the system for malware (F-Prot, ClamAV) etc, which is pretty much all I need from a tool like this.

_ Reduce the number of default workspaces to 2.
_ There should be an icon at upper-left corner on the default desktop so to change the screen resolution (LXRandR).
_ Open GParted, View, File system support. At least the packages for FAT12/16/32, NTFS, ext2/3/4, Btrfs and XFS should be included. Probably we want some others too.
_ In the Syslinux boot menu, the "Failsafe" option seems not configured properly. In addition to the panel (Debian icon, resources monitor, email client...), it also includes themes and additional programs (XTerm, web browsers...). Once in the "Failsafe" desktop, right-click to see some examples of unnecessary / inadequate / mixed features and packages.
_ Some applications are not named adequately in the menu. For instance, in "Failsafe" boot mode, the terminal is listed as XTerm, but LXTerminal is the one that is executed.
_ Include only one application per task. For instance, XTerm "seems to be used" in the "Failsafe" boot mode, and LXTerminal is in the normal boot option.
_ Get rid of the unnecessary packages (mail client, themes, additional web browsers, unused terminal packages...).
_ The logout option should include 2 alternatives: shutdown and reboot. I assume that we don't want (nor need) to include a session manager, so the "close session" alternative would be inadequate.
_ What do you think about changing the colors of LXTerminal? Just as an example, white background and black foreground.

***

In the "isolinux/" directory:

1_ Edit live.cfg,
1.1_ Add

DEFAULT menu.c32

in the first row.
1.2_ Add an adequate

MENU TITLE

directive before the first 'LABEL' directive.
1.3_ Add in the APPEND lines:

live-media-path=/live

so it is easier to customize its location.
1.4_ Save the new live.cfg.

Note 1: If necessary / desired, edit the "md5sum.txt" content so to reflect the above changes, before (re)building a new ISO.
Note 2: With newer versions of Syslinux, we can simplify this even further.

***

Is there any chance of getting rid of unused (or empty) directories? For instance, is the ".disk/" directory required to be included in the ISO image? If it is not really required but it is convenient, then I'd like to know in which situations.

The reason I mention the ".disk/" directory as example is because, under Linux, this is "typically" a valid name, but under certain filesystems (like ISO9660 Level 1, or under FAT without LFN, as examples), it is not. So reducing the presence of this type of directories also reduces some potential compatibility problems.

Another example could be the "games" directories inside the sqfs (usr/, usr/local/).

Anything specific in mind? As far as I can tell, all unnecessary packages have been removed. Some themes are necessary for certain packages to function. There are no mail clients, only one web browser and one terminal.

_ The logout option should include 2 alternatives: shutdown and reboot. I assume that we don't want (nor need) to include a session manager, so the "close session" alternative would be inadequate.

I would actually like to have this, but can't find any option within icewm to change it. Seems to be fixed unless we recompile.

_ What do you think about changing the colors of LXTerminal? Just as an example, white background and black foreground.

I guess this is a matter of personal preferences. I am in the camp that prefers a dark background. White background is too glaring!

In the "isolinux/" directory:

At this early stage, I am going to resist manually tampering with the generated ISO. In the future, if we do decide to integrate it with UBCD, then we can write scripts to do that.

Victor Chew wrote:I have made some changes to boot in native resolution. Let see how this goes first.

What if the user doesn't want the detected resolution? For instance, the screen allows for higher resolution but the user is visually-impaired so setting a lower resolution is a better match. For whichever reason, if the user wants/needs a different screen resolution then having the easiest and direct way to change it is very important; as otherwise the DE is unavailable.

Victor Chew wrote:As far as I can tell, all unnecessary packages have been removed. Some themes are necessary for certain packages to function. There are no mail clients, only one web browser and one terminal.

It should be possible to use (or build/save) one theme for all included packages, instead of installing several themes just because some random defaults were in use by different package maintainers.
Regarding mail clients and multiple web browsers, there are (at least) remnants seen in the DE menu when selecting the "failsafe" entry in the Syslinux boot menu; so if these unnecessary packages were indeed uninstalled, then at least some leftovers are still present.

Victor Chew wrote:

_ The logout option should include 2 alternatives: shutdown and reboot. I assume that we don't want (nor need) to include a session manager, so the "close session" alternative would be inadequate.

I would actually like to have this, but can't find any option within icewm to change it. Seems to be fixed unless we recompile.

How the user is expected to "shutdown" the Live OS? FWIW, GPartedLive is capable of showing the "shutdown" option.

Victor Chew wrote:

_ What do you think about changing the colors of LXTerminal? Just as an example, white background and black foreground.

I guess this is a matter of personal preferences. I am in the camp that prefers a dark background. White background is too glaring!

It was just an example (and I agree about the white color being too glaring). Grey fonts over black background is not the most user-friendly for our eyes (another example: what about black fonts over matted-light-blue-grey-ish as the UBCD forum?).

Victor Chew wrote:

In the "isolinux/" directory:

At this early stage, I am going to resist manually tampering with the generated ISO. In the future, if we do decide to integrate it with UBCD, then we can write scripts to do that.

I understand the reasoning. My suggestion is not actually changing the resulting menu in any way, but it gets rid of the inadequate and unnecessary files (a clear example is the "install" options). The steps I posted are just the simplest manual way to get an adequate result (completely equivalent to the current menu), and my guess is that you can edit the building scripts so to obtain it already when building the ISO images (as opposed to manual intervention after the fact).

It should be possible to use (or build/save) one theme for all included packages, instead of installing several themes just because some random defaults were in use by different package maintainers.

There is only one theme. If you boot up the image and do a "dpkg -l | grep theme", the only included theme is "hicolor". The total disk space used by "/usr/share/themes" and "/usr/share/icons" is only about 500KB, so I wouldn't be too worried.

Regarding mail clients and multiple web browsers, there are (at least) remnants seen in the DE menu when selecting the "failsafe" entry in the Syslinux boot menu; so if these unnecessary packages were indeed uninstalled

That is not due to remnant packages, but rather due to the wrong defaults being used when booting up in "failsafe". That has been fixed.

How the user is expected to "shutdown" the Live OS? FWIW, GPartedLive is capable of showing the "shutdown" option.

I have found a workaround to include "Reboot" and "Shutdown".

my guess is that you can edit the building scripts so to obtain it already when building the ISO images (as opposed to manual intervention after the fact).

I am pretty sure you can't, unless someone shows me otherwise. The only way is to unpack, modify and repack.

my guess is that you can edit the building scripts so to obtain it already when building the ISO images (as opposed to manual intervention after the fact).

I am pretty sure you can't, unless someone shows me otherwise. The only way is to unpack, modify and repack.

AFAIK, popular DebianLive-based distros are not including syslinux/isolinux cfg files and content that is not needed (or inadequate) for them. I would suggest taking a look at their building scripts (e.g. GPartedLive, TAILS,...) or contacting them, or to ask to DebianLive devs (e.g. in their mailing list).

Note that because the testing/sid areas change so fast, livevbuild scripts based on them break very easily and almost certainly require tweaking in order to build. I found the same problem when trying to build GParted Live (which is based on sid).

I just registered for the forum so I could mention how useful UBCD has been for me, and to applaud the direction you're going with UBCD Live. The only thing Parted Magic does for me on the existing UBCD is Clonezilla, which seem much happier as a 1st class citizen of UBCD Live.

It would also be great to see GNU ddrescue and ddrutility included. At that point I wouldn't be so sad about the maintainer of Ubuntu Rescue Remix being on hiatus.

For what it's worth, I also want to mention that I can't remember the last time I encountered a PC with less than 512MB of RAM.