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They can stop the flow of oil to our country. That is a huge security issue.

That's an ignorant statement. Oil comes from more places than the strait of Hormuz. If the us wanted it could open diplomatic negotiations with Venezuela to purchase more oil. It could tell the Saudis to pump more. Saudis can ship oil away from the Hormuz easily.

There is no US security issue more important than making you piss your pants while living in fear.

That's an ignorant statement. Oil comes from more places than the strait of Hormuz. If the us wanted it could open diplomatic negotiations with Venezuela to purchase more oil. It could tell the Saudis to pump more. Saudis can ship oil away from the Hormuz easily.

There is no US security issue more important than making you piss your pants while living in fear.

According to World Oil Transit Chokepoints:

Strait of Hormuz
The Strait of Hormuz is by far the world's most important chokepoint with an oil flow of almost 17 million barrels per day in 2011.

Located between Oman and Iran, the Strait of Hormuz connects the Persian Gulf with the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea. Hormuz is the world's most important oil chokepoint due to its daily oil flow of almost 17 million barrels in 2011, up from between 15.5-16.0 million bbl/d in 2009-2010. Flows through the Strait in 2011 were roughly 35 percent of all seaborne traded oil, or almost 20 percent of oil traded worldwide.

It is ignorant to not take this into account, especially since Iran has constantly threatened to close it and would attack foreign vessels. 20% of world oil trade says it all right there. I am feeling better now as we sent an Air Craft Carrier through there and Iran did nothing.
Venezuela isnít exactly a great county to work with at the moment, especially since itís President is accusing the U.S. of giving him cancer through some sort of witch craft. The world is full of egotistical nuts and they only thing they understand is military might. The U.S. again gets in the face of a LOT of people and countries this is true but the lives and property protected by itís actions are unquestionable. All of Europe exists today in form due to the actions of the United States.

It is ignorant to not take this into account, especially since Iran has constantly threatened to close it and would attack foreign vessels. 20% of world oil trade says it all right there. I am feeling better now as we sent an Air Craft Carrier through there and Iran did nothing.
Venezuela isn’t exactly a great county to work with at the moment, especially since it’s President is accusing the U.S. of giving him cancer through some sort of witch craft. The world is full of egotistical nuts and they only thing they understand is military might. The U.S. again gets in the face of a LOT of people and countries this is true but the lives and property protected by it’s actions are unquestionable. All of Europe exists today in form due to the actions of the United States.

Pan out on that map and look at Saudi Arabia as a whole.

As for Europe being the way it is, are you going to talk about how the US government and IBM helped the Nazis conduct the holocaust by setting up the contracts for the census machines? I'm all for the US being the good guys, but in order to be good, it has to understand where it has been evil. Staring back with rose tinted glasses on will always fail to convert your enemies to friends.

The US could have better relations with Venezuela, but the Venezuelans refuse to be strong armed into contracts. When Iran refused to be strong armed into contracts, back in the 1970s, the CIA helped stage the coup that brought in the current band of misfits. Everyone now understands the deal with the US except Americans.

I think these are too valid and deeply researched points for Supernaut to really counter guys, ease up..

This is a nice article I read the other day for those who care for a less sensationalized view on things - TL;DR for most but provides a fairly optimistic AND plausible theory of how it could play out.

By this time, I had to piss really bad, my dad was close, but I wouldn't be able to get to a gas station to piss for awhile. What the fuck do I do? I talk to my Dad and said - Why not just go on the side of the road?" "Too risky. I told him. I risk indecent exposure." "Do you have an empty can or bottle." "Yea, I said - an empty coke bottle." "Just use that." Good idea, I thought. I got in the back seat, pissed in the bottle and dumped it on the side of the road.

American reliance on fossil fuels from politically unstable parts of the world is itself a threat to American national security.

It's not in our best interest to be allied to and in bed with these Oil rich dictatorships.

Protip: We're destroying ourselves.

No arguement here. But how many lives would be affected if a gallon of gas shot to $10? Under Obama it doubled, it was a $168 when he started, one missle hitting an oil tanker in the straight would give us $10 a gallon. That is a national security issue adn the economy would shut down.

Originally Posted by Igniz v2

I think these are too valid and deeply researched points for Supernaut to really counter guys, ease up..

This is a nice article I read the other day for those who care for a less sensationalized view on things - TL;DR for most but provides a fairly optimistic AND plausible theory of how it could play out.

Counter? Are you serious? This country is oil dependent and it happens to be foreign oil. We all know what the issues are and I wish we could wave a magic wand and we became energy independent.

From what I am seeing I doubt Iran would try anything too crazy. They have made many threats and the U.S. has called them on it and Iran has done nothing to back up any of its threats. I donít like being in bed with these a$$holes but these are the facts of life and how our society works. Sorry.

That kind of logic is what got the Taliban in power. The enemy of my enemy is my friend right?

I think public beheadings helped their cause of fear and oppression. Not to mention they will blow themselves up. The Taliban HATES us, if we pulled every person back into the U.S. that would still hate us. They hate our Freedom, how we allow women freedom, and how it isnít theocracy. They have no ability to make rational thoughts and will die for their cause.

Enemy or not we have a VERY large economy, just sit back and think about how many things and operations run off oil and how itíll be affected if we canít get as much?

As much as a war monger as i am i dont even believe that, we are not 1941 japan. There is no threat to security when we have our own oil.

We can be energy independent we just choose not to be.

Sure, at what cost to society? You canít do this over night. EVERYTHING runs off oil of coal. It takes years of planning and then NIMBY issue for a Nuclear Power Plant. We still use natural gas. Solar power is an issue, wind is an issue, I mean there has to be a better way but for now there isnít a cost effective one.

I think public beheadings helped their cause of fear and oppression. Not to mention they will blow themselves up. The Taliban HATES us, if we pulled every person back into the U.S. that would still hate us. They hate our Freedom, how we allow women freedom, and how it isn’t theocracy. They have no ability to make rational thoughts and will die for their cause.

Enemy or not we have a VERY large economy, just sit back and think about how many things and operatiions run off oil and how it’ll be affected if we can’t get as much?

That is the very definition of a National Security issue.

Huh? Our real politik world view is what caused American hate abroad. Sure a lot of it is also based on ignorant disinformation and lack of education but many places around the world have legitimate grievances againt the united states.

The thing about Iran is that it needs the world's gasoline more than the world need's it's oil.

Originally Posted by Lagduf

That kind of logic is what got the Taliban in power. The enemy of my enemy is my friend right?

And Saddam... And the Iranian Clergy during 91/92 and 01/02.

The funny thing is, I don't know why we ever took Sadam our the Taliban out. They were such a nice buffer for Iran and each other.

Originally Posted by Supernaut_

The Taliban HATES us, if we pulled every person back into the U.S. that would still hate us. They hate our Freedom, how we allow women freedom, and how it isnít theocracy. They have no ability to make rational thoughts and will die for their cause..

LULZ

There was no immunity to cuckoo ideas on Earth.
Here was the reason human beings could not reject ideas because they were bad: "Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity.
Their content didn't matter. Friends agreed with friends, in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagreed with enemies, in order to express enmity.

Huh? Our real politik world view is what caused American hate abroad. Sure a lot of it is also based on ignorant disinformation and lack of education but many places around the world have legitimate grievances againt the united states.

Nobody is perfect, especially the United States. A lot of the hate is based upon false beliefs or religious beliefs. I mean the French hate us. They just raised their Sales tax today beyond 20% yet the bad mouth us. Many MANY Arab nations and people hate us for our love of ISRAEL. Point is, no matter what the worldís largest super power and by far the worldís most powerful Army does will just be responded to negatively. What you failed to address is how charitable the United States is and how much money we give other nations. A lot of these people want us dead, IDK how we can agree on that. It isnít much better in the rest of the world, Europe is failing, cost of living there is much much hire. Our country and way of life affords the most freedoms and less government involvement, they hate us for that.

Originally Posted by norton9478

The funny thing is, I don't know why we ever took Sadam our the Taliban out. They were such a nice buffer for Iran and each other.

LULZ

Saddam really knew how to take care of anyone who crossed him. Taking him out was a mistake if you do not value the innocent lives he tortured and killed.

Laugh all you want they hate jews and women and our freedom. I only hate 2 of the three.

Because it's not. Iranians have everything. They have loads of food, and it's good food.

They have the same cars as people have here, but they have to pay 2x as much to buy them bc tariffs are so high.

They have the same speed internet and the same computers as people have the US, but with filters put in place by the government, which smart Iranians know how to bypass.

An of course they all have cell phones. They don't have the infrastructure for 3G I guess, but some people have smartphones there too.

It's basically not Korea at all.

Iran's problem is that America's little brothers hate on Iran. There are problems there with civil rights, but that's not the reason why Iran would get attacked. If that was the reason to attack someone, Iran would have been "liberated" a long time ago.

I don't think US sees Iran as north Korea. They probably see it more like Afghanistan.
Iran has too much Oil money to be like N Korea.

Laugh all you want they hate jews and women and our freedom. I only hate 2 of the three.

Aight, I got you....

Whose joke fake account are you again?

There was no immunity to cuckoo ideas on Earth.
Here was the reason human beings could not reject ideas because they were bad: "Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity.
Their content didn't matter. Friends agreed with friends, in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagreed with enemies, in order to express enmity.

I am who I am. I came for the Drama. Long time lurker first time poster. Politics is hard especially concerning war but the whole “Give Peace a Chance” bit simply does not work. As soon as the U.S. backs off a certain area we have countries invading other countries. Countries detonating Nuclear Devices in return for money and food, leaders denying the holocaust and threatening to kill more Jews. It goes on and on, remember when Russia invaded Georgia?

The U.S., through many un-agreeable or possibly despicable acts, has kept the world in check and keep many nations from killing one another. One giant gaping flaw in all of this is Africa which we allow the worst carnage and rape and murder and nobody really cares. Back in the 80’s we did Live Aid and sent over 100 Million over to Africa, not an ounce of change, stolen by war lords and used to actually purchase weapons to kill more people.

The United States is bad at times, no doubt, but I’d like to argue that we are the Least Worst Nation on the planet.

Back in the 80’s we did Live Aid and sent over 100 Million over to Africa, not an ounce of change.

But it did produce Sabbath and Zeppelin reunions. That's good enough for me.

There was no immunity to cuckoo ideas on Earth.
Here was the reason human beings could not reject ideas because they were bad: "Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity.
Their content didn't matter. Friends agreed with friends, in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagreed with enemies, in order to express enmity.