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Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

I decided to help you out. Tyler's best game by a very, very wide margin this year, came on 11/14 in Milwaukee. He shot 6-8 from the field, 5-6 from the line, grabbed 5 rebounds, and miraculously managed to get 1 of those 4 assists in the same game. He had 2 TO's, and the Pacers lost 85-99 in a game that Vogel described as "hitting rock bottom," but hey, you know, progress, man.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

This is true. Augustin has been worse. Of the 234 players in the NBA who have played enough minutes per game to statistically qualify by the NBA's standards, Augustin is ranked 233rd in eFG%. Hansbrough is 227th.

That's puke worthy right there. Doesn't surprise me though. Those two have been beyond turrible this season. And Tyler started off at least decent, but has been all downhill since the beginning of the season.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

That's puke worthy right there. Doesn't surprise me though. Those two have been beyond turrible this season. And Tyler started off at least decent, but has been all downhill since the beginning of the season.

The worst part is, that's the good news. The bad news is who is ranked 226th.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

I like the change myself. I think the second unit needs a guy who will make the solid pass, recognize match-ups and not turn the ball over. We don't need anything flashy, just a guy to play solid fundemental basketball.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

You can always count on Mack and Brush to show up when there's some Tyler bashing to be had*.
No matter what happens, backup PG remains a pretty big issue; one that is likely to be fixed by trade deadline. There's no way we can go into the playoffs with our current situation and expeect to win.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

The 4 rebounds per game, and 4 assists total on the season (4!!!!!) factor into making him not near the bottom?

4 rebounds per game in 16 minutes. Not elite, but not worst in the NBA material. I was referring to rebounding for Hansbrough because he is a big and assists for Augustin because he is a point. Not pointing out Hansbrough's assists or Augustin's rebounds.

If Hansbrough averaged at least 30 minutes a game, he could be a 30 game double double guy easy. That is not near a bottom player at all. Not elite, but not total garbage like most of you swear he is. I also contend his defense would be better with the starters than with the bench, because defensively Hibbert > Ian, George > any defender on the team, Lance > Green, Hill > Augustin. Sorry it would be easier for him if he were still a starter. Sure West is better and it isn't even close, but Hansbrough has fell off ever since he was relegated to bench duties. And I think the consistently terrible play from the other bench players since he was moved there is at least part of the problem.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel: "We’re going to make a change for the SHORT term and give Ben an opportunity."

This is what you should all be focusing on. I think this is more about seeing if Ben has value as a 3rd string point guard before his contract becomes guaranteed. If he shows potential then who knows what will happen. But if he doesn't look promising then it might be time to cut him lose and take a look at someone else.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

You wouldn't even need OJ as Green could easily take those minutes. The only difference would be Lance would consistently get starter minutes, while Green would consistently get 6th man minutes. Instead of Lance going back and forth between starter and 6th man minutes, and Green going back and forth between 6th man and 10th man minutes.

I've thought Green has played fairly well in limited minutes the past few games. His athleticism and length is definitely a plus on the defensive side. I wish he'd attack a little more, but he's been shooting 3's fairly consistently this month. Last night he scored 2 pretty good baskets in the 4th, and played pretty good D on Martin.

Like I said, I actually think he could stand to be a little more aggressive. But he seems like he doesn't wanna step on anyone's toes

I think Gerald and Tyler would both benefit from playing alongside Lance more often. With the current rotation they don't spend much time on the floor together. That's why I'm in favor of Eleazar's above rotation, there's really no need to play 10.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

You can always count on Mack and Brush to show up when there's some Tyler bashing to be had*.
*he is playing pretty poorly.

And then when he plays decently, they will be conspicuously absent from the discussion, like at the start of the year. At least I stand up for him even when he is struggling. I don't just show up after a good game and say I told you so.

He has a 13.27 PER for this year. That puts him at 185/324 qualified players. That is a lot closer to middle of the pack than it is to bottom of the league. See how this works?

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

The Augustin experiment has failed so why not try. I hope they give Ben 20 games and not one or two as some
have advocated before passing judgement. I am hoping to at least see a little fire and enthusiasm.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

This is what you should all be focusing on. I think this is more about seeing if Ben has value as a 3rd string point guard before his contract becomes guaranteed. If he shows potential then who knows what will happen. But if he doesn't look promising then it might be time to cut him lose and take a look at someone else.

I agree. If Ben's contract become guaranteed at the 1/2 way mark, we really need to know if he can give us ANY meaningful minutes in a real game. If he can get the 2nd unit to actually run a play now and then, not dribble around in circles for 18/20 seconds on most plays then throw the ball away, he is better than DJ has shown. If he can instill a little leadership into the movement of the group, he needs to take all DJs minutes until we shorten the rotation when Danny comes back. If not, we need to move Lance to the backup PG and maybe elevate OJ to some floor time. Or hit the market at mid season for a PG.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

Maybe he will be our John Lucas III. Seriously we need some offense from the bench, and a quote from twitter: "Tyler Hansbrough is 2 for 21 on jumpers this season, per Synergy. On the bright side, he has 4 assists in 347 minutes." (https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh)

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

Sure, Augustin (and now Ben Hansbrough) sucks. Sure, Gerald Green has sucked. Sure, Sam Young isn't very good. Sure, Tyler Hansbrough has played like one of the worst players in the NBA. Sure, Ian Mahinmi has been somewhat disappointing. But playing them all together exacerbates their issues. And it is entirely unnecessary.

I am always optimistic on new players until they prove me wrong. Maybe a different person to stir the second unit drink will be what this bunch needs. They just look disorganized.

Re: Augustin demoted to 3rd PG, Hansbrough new Backup

Ben and Tyler playing on the court together as the 2nd unit is just too cool. That's something all brothers would dream about as they are growing up. They should have some good chemistry together on the court. Right?

I am all for this change. But, be warned, Ben is really raw. I was paying close attention to the few minutes he played so far this year and he looked really lost. That will come with time, hopefully not as long as it took Lance, but at least you know you are always going to get 110% effort and energy with The 'Bros.