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itwbennett writes "With the much-acclaimed Galaxy SIII in its pocket, don't think that Samsung is looking at Amazon's success with the Kindle and Apple's success with its iOS devices and saying to themselves, 'No, we'd rather not have that kind of diverse revenue, we'll stick to razor-thin hardware margins,' writes blogger Kevin Purdy. And that's not the only reason that Samsung might decide the time is right to maintain its own OS, or at least an Android fork: There's also the looming spectre of Google-Motorola."

Semi-related comment from the kernel source of my phone:/*This is a temporary piece of crappy code that I was forced to write as I did not figureout how to properly use the SPI driver in the system. Please resist the temptation of ever usingthis code in a good Samsung phone. I will remove this code as soon as I figure out the correctway of using the SPI driver*/

(That code actually works correctly though, unlike some of the other stuff)

The general perception within the Android community of Samsung is "Awesome hardware, crap software".

Samsung's profit levels show that they have enough hardware differentiation to avoid razor-thin hardware margins, although the Galaxy S III may be a change... The S3 offers little hardware-wise that the Galaxy Note doesn't (the extra two CPU cores are rarely used) - all it has to offer are a bunch of software gimmicks that so far tend to piss people off that use them.

surely 3rd time lucky will give us the phone OS that will take mobile computing a huge step forward this time?

They aren't looking for the step forward, they're just looking for the thing that Works and takes them off of Google's update schedule and in a better position to compete strategically with the iOS ecosystem. It's also quite possible they just want to have a loaded gun pointed at Google, ready to fire if they ever got the whiff that Google was using Android on Motorola to attack their handset busin

Trying to do WebOS (or something like it) at this point is rather dumb, IMO. There's only room for so many mobile OSes, and one of the main drivers is the apps. We already have iOS, Android, RIM/Blackberry (which is dying), Symbian (which is almost dead), and WindowsPhone7 (which isn't doing very well). App developers are naturally only going to target the most popular platforms, as many years of Windows (on the desktop) has shown us; trying to open up Yet Another Mobile App Store simply isn't going to g

There's nothing MeeGo about Tizen. Some existing projects from Intel might make their way in, but nothing of MeeGo proper is present. As it stands, Tizen is just SLP made public with investment from Intel and more public than LiMo (albeit without any sort of community input that I can see.)

Other than that, the current Tizen push to have no native software at all, focusing entirely on HTML5 software (which, in the face of Android and iOS support for native development is suicide.) As someone who attended the Tizen summit in San Francisco back in May, this has greatly discouraged me and sharply tempered my interest in the platform. I'll keep my ears open and fiddle with my reference unit, but it looks like I'm stuck with my N900 for yet more time until something drops that can actually replace it (hopefully giving me the option of root that I want.)

Other than that, the current Tizen push to have no native software at all, focusing entirely on HTML5 software (which, in the face of Android and iOS support for native development is suicide.)

I don't see other option, though. Once a platform is dominant, it gets a bit harder to end the vicious circle of no programs, therefore no users, therefore no programs... see Windows. RIM and Nokia were kings, Apple came and made a much, much better platform. Then iOS became quite ubiquitous, and Android was a genius move. If any one manufacturer came up with a new platform, it would have to be way, way better than iOS for users and developers to make a leap of faith together, agood enough to beat Apple on

true, you can just port Apache Cordova to every device, but that does pre-supposed an OS with hooks that can e accessed from that platform.

One thing to note: I have an app on my Android system that shows ad networks, but will also show the dev tool used - and a very large number of the games I have are all using the NDK. I don't think that's coincidence, so a native system will be required, if not at first and if not for all apps.

iOS started life running HTML and js, now it's native only. Anddroid started

So long as Samsung continues to be the sole producer of phones with SuperAMOLED+ screens, they've got my dollar secured. I'd much rather have those deep blacks than a Retina screen.

Of course if I was an Android user, I may be worried about Samsung creating their own fork which is almost guaranteed to be worse than vanilla. They may end up driving more users away with this than they'd gain.

I have a Galaxy Nexus and the screen does look like (pentile is still noticeable when very close up) but unfortunately, burn-in is an issue. my old Droid X I had pandora playing with the screen auto-off disabled and had no problems; with the OLED screen on the galaxy nexus, pandora has burned in, unfortunately.
Either fix that in the screens (and get rid of pentile), or I won't be getting another samsung phone.

As stated in another post below, I've had my Nexus ~3 months after I noticed it and I initially noticed it after a 4-hour car drive. I don't know if it just got to a noticeable level at that point, or if it was really the first time I left it on the same screen but I had done that dozens of times (including 10-hour drives from NY to VA) and never had a problem on my Droid X.

Honestly, I'm curious why do you care about pentile display? My Galaxy Nexus looks absolutely fine for all uses. Maybe you can see a difference under a microscope but that's just going out of you way to find something to be unhappy about.

I wonder how many people would eagerly go for a non-pentile version and then complain that the battery life is not as good as the pentile version? or complain that the colours deteriorate over time (that was samsung's claim)?

Yeah, I'd say it's an overstatement. My previous phone was also a Nexus One. By no definition was the display atrocious looking. I don't have it convenient right now, but even when I had it side by side with my Galaxy Nexus no major problems with the display stood out. But I was just using my phone, I wasn't looking for flaws. I think the people who insist pentile is bad are looking for flaws, so naturally they see them.

Same here - recently got a Galaxy S3 (a terrific phone, not so keen on the Samsung "enhancements" to ICS) which also has a pentile display with the same resolution as Galaxy Nexus (physically a bit larger, so the pixels are ever so slightly bigger). The fact that the display is pentile is only really evident when the text is so small it's pretty much illegible already. This seems to be very much on the font though, some look fine in tiny sizes.

It doesn't look horrible, I said it was noticeable if I was using it up close and added some artifacts. I still love my phone (aside from the burn-in).

As for the burn-in, I noticed it after a 4-hour car drive. I don't know if it just got to a noticeable level at that point, or if it was really the first time I left it on the same screen but I had done that dozens of times (including 10-hour drives from NY to VA) and never had a problem on my Droid X.

Well, you included getting rid of the pentile display as a condition for buying another Samsung, so that makes it sound like you consider it a pretty serious problem.

The burn-in can be a real problem though, that is true, but I only had minor burn in on my N1 after 2 years of heavy use. It was barely noticeable where the old white status bar was before Gingerbread made it black. I never left it on for long periods as often as you did though. I use Navigation all the time while driving, but haven't seen any

> Unless they hire a bunch of the top guys from XDA, their software will continue to be absolute shyte no one wants on their phone:(

You mean, like the guy behind Cyanogen? He's been a Samsung employee for about a year now. It's not a coincidence that Samsung has suddenly become one of the first-ported platforms for new versions of Cyanogen. Hiring him was a brilliant move for Samsung, because it allowed them to outsource the long-term development of their phone operating system for EOL'ed phones to an army of highly-skilled unpaid volunteers. Since he's an official Samsung employee, they can even let him have access to sourcecode, SDKs, and datasheets that companies like Qualcomm won't allow them to release to the general public. Thus, when a new version of Android gets released, he can personally churn out a new kerneland kernel modules for everything Samsung has soucecode access to within a matter of days He doesn't have time to indiscriminately REWRITE much beyond a few carefully-chosen phone models, but for any task that mainly comes down to dropping in the new kernel source and running make, Samsung phones are literally weeks to months ahead of HTC phones now.

That said, it's a good thing Samsung doesn't lock bootloaders and has Cyanogen's founder working for them, because their own in-house operating system development efforts have historically sucked donkey dick. Sprint's history of Samsung phones is littered with the corpses of unloved phones released with operating systems that were already considered old the PREVIOUS YEAR. The SPH-i300 shipped with PalmOS 3.5... when all the new apps at Palmgear needed 4. The SPH-i500 shipped with glorious 4.1, when all the new apps at Palmgear needed 5. Every phone had the potential to be great, but ended up getting ruined by arriving a year late and a few excessively value-engineered dollars short of tolerability.

Steve working for Samsung has had almost zero benefit to the CM project - he is HEAVILY firewalled/NDAed.

Samsung becoming the most-ported manufacturer for CM has nothing to do with Steve getting hired - it started long before that.

It has two main components:1) Samsung has awesome hardware but crap software (this continues to this day), which provides more incentive for people to do a bringup2) Samsung has the most lenient bootloader-locking policies around, while HTC (the previous king of CM bringups) has

One thing - To give him credit, he's had a lot of influence in bringing up CM on carrier-mangled derpbeasts like the AT&T Note (completely different from the international version), the T989, and the Shitrocket. (All three of which share a lot of commonality internally).

He hasn't had much involvement at all with the bringups of CM on Hummingbird (all of the original GalaxyS line) or Exynos (international S2, S3, and Note) devices - that has been more Teamhacksung (codeworkx, xplodwild, atinm, espenfjo,

Well, going by Apple's own marketing -- which is constantly changing -- the SuperAMOLED+ found on Android devices also have a Retina display.

Since the new non-upgradeable MacBook Pros only have a 220 PPI screen and Apple has proudly labeled them Retina, pretty much every Android phone on the market -- including my old Nexus One -- and most BlackBerry phones are eligible for this Retina moniker that makes so many iPhone guys feel special.

Apple defines Retina based on average distance held relative to pixels. Retina for a bill board is different than retina for a phone.

tan(a/s) = s/2d

where d = distance from displace, s = spacing between pixels and a = viewing angle of pixels (the angle till you see overlap). To get to what Apple calls "Retina" you need to get "a" down to 1 arc minute.

* = As an aside let me just point out that 1 arc minute is not correct in terms of the limits of human vision especially for kids. Likely we have to go thro

Sigh. Why do you trolls always ignore the distance thing. My laptop is a different distance from my face than my phone or a tablet...

I'm not saying i agree with the guy you replied to but i tend to have them all at about the same distance. Do you really hold your phone closer to your face than a tablet? If your eyes are so bad that you need to do that then a retina display probably makes no difference anyway. If i'm sitting down with a tablet it sits about as far from my eyes as a laptop screen does when i'm using that.

I imagine you're currently festering in your own rage as you let your own biased and quite ignorant outlook on life skew the reality of things. How does that nerve feel that I hit? Or has the saliva that's frothed out of your mouth soothed it?

Why don't you bother being more constructive on Slashdot instead resorting to name calling? Has your frontal lobe not developed yet? You do know that you can post without checking Anonymous Coward? Right?

Of course if I was an Android user, I may be worried about Samsung creating their own fork which is almost guaranteed to be worse than vanilla.

It's a bit premature to worry about that, isn't it? Right now, Samsung is one of the better Android citizens. Let's punish them when/if they stop being that, not based on cynicism about what we think they will do.

Choosing the tight margins on their (unquestionably superior) hardware, is akin to choosing the tight margins of open source software rather than lock-in of

- "Do you actually have anything of substance to write? This says 'slow news day by a lazy writer' all over the place to me."- "It's click bait, something to get his numbers up and make it seem like he is being productive."

Samsung suffer from some serious product schizophrenia sometimes (in a similar way as do Google). They have a successful and highly entrenched Android division. They also have Tizen development under way, and they have their own smartphone OS, Bada, as well as proprietary no=name OS' for feature phones. They even used to develop for Symbian.

Android is working for them; it would be suicide to abandon it for yet another new OS now, just as they've taken the lead.

RIM used to be the most profitable, biggest smartphone manufacturer in the world.

Look, I'll be the first person to admit that there's a lot of dynamism in this market and that change management is essential to the mid-term survival of any player. But what's being suggested here is that Samsung, who have succeeded with their Android phones, and who have better margins than any other Android handset maker, should fundamentally change their process simply because other companies have been successful with other approaches.

You're assuming that Samsung is full of retards. There's a chance that you are right, but more likely they: if they think their OS is any good, they will launch phones with their OS __ IN ADDITION TO __ their Android phones.

If people like SamsungOS (fat chance.. but just go along with it).. Samsung will have 1 more advantage over other manufacturers. Right now they can only differentiate themselves using the hardware.. with their own OS they'll have hardware + software.

The only thing that's more foolish than ignoring the past is expecting the past to repeat itself. Circumstances matter. Differences in capabilities matter. Timing matters. Why did Apple succeed with tablets where Microsoft failed? All three.

You can find instances to support either end of this stick: companies who failed to get out of an eroding business in time, and those that neglected what they were good at and got lost in markets they weren't equipped to enter.

I agree. The summary doesn't make sense. Razor-thin hardware margins? That's not Samsung, but the people that put together those phones for Samsung. No-one ever says the same about Apple, for example, while Apple also designs their own hardware.

Samsung's margin should be better thanks to using Android. Must be far cheaper to maintain their own brand of Android than to maintain a complete mobile OS, plus they have access to the enormous existing app market. The profit is in the design and marketing of the de

Now I can honestly say that I like Samsung's hardware a lot. I have a HDTV from them and I own a Nexus S. The build quality's always solid, the designs are nice and the phone screens are lavish.

However, Samsung's never seemed to me to be even remotely competent with software. TouchWiz has been described as anything from mediocre to disastrous, especially now that Android's default UI (with ICS) is fairly sleek. Unless they have plans to entirely scrap that and hire a better software team, I don't see how they can expect to actually fork Android. They'd either lose on all the Google-provided updates or have to have an extensive integration process every time a new version comes out. This might work with revisions, but large changes (like say, the jump from Gingerbread/Honeycomb to ICS) would require tremendous amounts of work for little benefit, in the end. Not following the lead set by Google would mean trailing in API implementation, having to maintain their own development kits and tools, and probably fracturing the environment with them sticking out like a sore thumb. Android app devs already have enough of a headache supporting three concurrent OS versions.

They're better off taking advantage of Google's platform. I doubt they'll change it much with the Motorola acquisition, which was in large part a land grab in the patent war. At worst, Samsung will lose their privileged Nexus maker status, which while important in terms of image doesn't translate into that many sales.

Yeah, but Cyanogen was all cool because you had to root your phone and load it up. You were rebelling and being all hipster. Now if Cyanogen is simply par for the course of a Samsung phone, everybody will lose interest.

True, I forgot about that, but I'm afraid you need a lot more than just a good leader. You need a change in the corporate culture and policies, and as much as I think CM is a very nice project, I doubt he can make that happen. There's just too much inertia.

At best, Samsung would stop messing with things and use Cyanogenmod directly, with perhaps in-house testing before releasing official updates. That'd be an ideal and very unlikely situation though, because CM gives way too much power to the (average) end

However, Samsung's never seemed to me to be even remotely competent with software.

This is an understatement. Samsung aren't only experts in pushing buggy software a lot of their results end up being blatant rip-offs of other software. They have three notable WTF-were-they-thinking moments:

- Touchwiz: This has to be the least stable launcher I have every experienced on a phone. It was slow, jerky, used a lot of memory (By Samsung's own admission Touchwiz is why the the old Galaxy S won't get ICS because the hardware is underpowered... which is news to me since I already run ICS), and cloned much of the early elements from Apple.

- Keis: A blatant rip-off attempt at iTunes which is slower (hard to believe I know) and is horrendously broken. I've never plugged a Samsung phone in and been able to apply an update without issue. The most recent attempt at upgrading a Galaxy S II resulted in an error message entirely written in Korean. The consensus seems to be that it's much safer to perform a firmware upgrade by hacking around with tarballs and a complicated flashing utility than it is to simply hit one button in the manufacturer's own software.

- RFS (resulting in a horrendous Galaxy S experience): Let's take an old file system, attach a journal to it, put a second file allocation table in it for redundancy, and then name it RobustFS and claim it was specifically designed for NAND memory. Oh while we're at it we'll write the worlds slowest kernel driver for it too. This file system and its implementation resulted in Android actually force closing apps because the OS thought they took so long accessing the file system that they locked up. It was a problem in Android 2.1 and 2.2... AND 2.3 despite some hundreds of firmware releases around the world between these versions. Yet the xda-developers solved the issue in a really short time period and now searching "Lag-fix galaxy s" on Google returns some 600000 hits.

This is a heavy contributor to the popularity of Cyanogenmod on their devices. "unbreak all the things", "blame samsung", and "wtf did they do this time?" are common things said by the Samsung device maintainer team in IRC...

Personally - Due to their lack of cooperation with the developer community which lead to CM7 not being the most stable on the devices I owned, in the case of Gingerbread I stuck with maintaining kernels for Touchwizz firmware and porting I9100 firmwares to the I777.

It doesn't make much sense to me that Samsung would want to produce their own phone OS. As far as I am aware, Samsung are in the phone game for broadly the same reason that Apple are - to sell hardware. Sure, Apple have managed to make software sell but this has largely been by using lock-in to force everyone to sell their s/w through Apple. Of course, Apple gets a nice cut for providing this service. Although I do appreciate that this is not a black and white issue, it still seems to me that Apple continue

I really don't understand. While other manufacturers like HTC have been working to reduce the footprint of their UI over Android, Samsung wants to increase it?
I have a Galaxy Nexus and I absolutely love it. But I wouldn't have bought it if it had included their old Touchwiz UI which generally was considered the worst out of the three major manufacturers. Vanilla ICS is a great experience and leaps leaps over previous versions. However the new UI on the Galaxy III looks even more intrusive and has pret

Samsung wants to make their own OS, which will be miles behind iOS, or Android, in applications. And this will be a hot seller, why? Consider windows, webos, blackberry playbook; all decent OSes, where are they now?

The "razor thin hardware margins" makes no sense either. Samsung will not be able to sell their phones, or tablets, for more because they have a different OS (that has way less apps).

This is excellent news! I love my Galaxy S3 and I will be sure to put my dollars towards HTC in the future if this occurs. Ensuring a competitive marketplace.I have 0 interest in one manufacturers own fork, I'm done with that.

For some of us who have older S's (1.5 years) Samsung needs to support their phones like Apple does. Get us the updates.

If you need to look at how well Samsung can fail in their own software look at Kies. Poor platform support apart from Windows. Poor older phone support. Come on Samusung get with the big boys. Not everyone can upgrade every year. remind us why we should be loyal.

Not hard at all to install and better in every way than any official update - more configurability, less bloat, better defaults, less reliant on hacky apps to correct shit that should work properly in the first place (WiFi keep alive, call slider etc.)..

Not hard at all to install and better in every way than any official update - more configurability, less bloat, better defaults, less reliant on hacky apps to correct shit that should work properly in the first place (WiFi keep alive, call slider etc.)..

Only that's not what they're doing. Dumping support on the community would be amazing. Release specs, open source the drivers and the community will be ecstatic. Porting new or making custom roms would then be trivial. What they do is withhold their crap. The community then makes an herculean effort to support a closed device. The sad thing is, and you can see it clearly on Cyanogen, that they manage to do a way better job then the manufacturer in the first place.

I think they should keep updating phones while they're continuing to sell them. The iPhone 3gs has iOS 5 because they're still selling it. This helps drive sales of older models (which may have higher margins as they age) because people are more likely to buy the comparable device with newer software & better features over the one with older software.

It would certainly be nice if they kept updating software after they discontinue it. My issue is that people shouldn't be buying

Exactly. I'm still running 3.2 on my 10.1 tablet with only vague generalizations as to when I *might* get ICS. Instead of futzing around with their own O/S, maybe they could make Android better? For example, I have to manually set my timezone when I travel with the 10.1 even though it has GPS; no option to have it automatically update. Yes, it's a minor nit, but it's that level of quality that I'm wanting and that they're currently not delivering with Android. If they can't manage that with someone else's O