Peter wrote:so after lots of debate about dreaming of being in a lucid dream you state this....Can you explain this one

I'm talking about what I call a non-physical lucid awareness experience.

It's a non-physical experience where all you realize is that you're in a reality which isn't the physical reality. More concisely, you're the actor who knows they're in a play, you just keep playing along. You also have no recollection of who you physically are.

If you add a "waking awareness" to the above description (the awareness you have right now about yourself) you'd be having an astral awareness experience.

If this is what you folks are calling a dream of a lucid dream, then I understand your metaphor.

If I am correct you are describing what I call vivid dreams. I am in the scene and taking part in a full and complete way but not consious of it. I have these most nights and they roll on in a realistic way and can be quite deep with meaning or intent but are just a little short of lucid. I will recall details from daily life and make choices but not click that I am dreaming. The next stage is full lucid, either from the dream or via WILD or OOB.

I think the vivid dreams are as meaningful as the lucid ones and maybe more so as you get to recall what would be your true actions in a given situation.

See the post "Old friend" in sharing dreams for an example of a vivid dream that for me fits this discription

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Peter wrote:If I am correct you are describing what I call vivid dreams. I am in the scene and taking part in a full and complete way but not consious of it. I have these most nights and they roll on in a realistic way and can be quite deep with meaning or intent but are just a little short of lucid. I will recall details from daily life and make choices but not click that I am dreaming. The next stage is full lucid, either from the dream or via WILD or OOB.

Yes, yes! Most of my dreams in the last several years would fall under your "vivid dream" category. I fully experience them as I do right now, except I simply believe I'm physically awake. I could call them false awakening dreams really since I'm very convinced at the time that I'm wide awake. LoL

I think the vivid dreams are as meaningful as the lucid ones and maybe more so as you get to recall what would be your true actions in a given situation.

Yeah, I totally agree with that sentiment. Most of my non-lucid/astral dreams these last several years would fall under your "vivid dream" category. Most nights I fully experience the dreams as they happen, just as I'm typing this post right now. I'm just completely unaware that I'm dreaming.

Which really makes me wonder... am I dreaming now?

See the post "Old friend" in sharing dreams for an example of a vivid dream that for me fits this description

that clears up some thoughts that I had. These vivids can be unreal and I get them most nights. I remember when they used to go most of the night and I would wake up convinced that I had been at work or doing something for hours. It used to confuse me as I would wake up with full recall of hours of dreaming and it would be a little time before I would work out that I was dreaming and that I therefore must have been asleep. What a confusing time those years were but I would love to had been recording at that time.

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Peter wrote:that clears up some thoughts that I had. These vivids can be unreal and I get them most nights.

Yup, for my own personal system, I categorize them under normal dreams.

I remember when they used to go most of the night and I would wake up convinced that I had been at work or doing something for hours. It used to confuse me as I would wake up with full recall of hours of dreaming and it would be a little time before I would work out that I was dreaming and that I therefore must have been asleep. What a confusing time those years were but I would love to had been recording at that time.

ROFL! Oh I know that feeling very well.

I'd put those kinds of experiences right up there with false awakenings. lol