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Agree. Why spend so much time and energy on a private transaction between two parties in which he has no vested interest? Maybe he thinks he is standing up for the "everyman" by making this public.

To me (and I imagine, many others) he comes across as a complete loser. His obsession with this topic is a sad statement about his life and his priorities. ﻿

Yes, Gilles may be a loser and can't do math, but that doesn't change what Kuchar did or didn't pay.

On 1/29/2019 at 10:11 PM, Vinsk said:

Hell no. $3000/week to caddie...I’m in. ﻿﻿

Sure, but I bet you'd feel differently if your guy won and gave you $3k or $5k (or something in that vicinity), while other guys do the same job and get much, much, more.

On 1/17/2019 at 12:29 PM, GolfLug said:

I believe he got paid more, but it seems best that he (caddy) broadcast that he got 'only' $3K. I bet the cartel fairy is already circling his house for its 'income tax'.

Eh. Sure, maybe the caddie got a bit more than he's letting on, but seems doubtful that he got anywhere near the vicinity of what seems equitable. Not saying he should have gotten 10% as a stand-in caddie, but Kuchar made $1.2M. Don't be such a tightwad. Give the guy $20k, $50k, something respectable.

Even if they agreed on a fee beforehand, so what? Kuchar's odds of winning were small, he won, why be so a cheapskate?

Sure, but I bet you'd feel differently if your guy won and gave you $3k or $5k (or something in that vicinity), while other guys do the same job and get much, much, more.

I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit here, and I'm going to stipulate that Kuchar paid ~$5k, which is nowhere near a fact…

The other caddies are NOT doing the "same job." The guy carried the bag. He didn't have to travel to get there. He didn't have to leave his family. He's not familiar with PGA Tour golf like Tour caddies are, and he's certainly not familiar with Kuchar's game. He didn't club Kuchar for the week, didn't talk about how this shot is similar to the one Kuchar hit really well three months ago at such-and-such event on the 62nd hole, doesn't know what types of specialty shots Kuchar hits, doesn't know what shots make Kuchar nervous or excited, doesn't know what to say at the right moment because he's spent years on Kuchar's bag and understands how he thinks, feels, reacts… etc.

People are saying "Kuchar won by one shot so I think the caddie had to have helped him by at least a shot over 72 holes" when it's more likely the caddie COST him a shot or more over those 72 holes as compared to his regular caddie.

5 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Give the guy $20k, $50k, something respectable.

You don't know what he gave him. Maybe he did give him $5k.

5 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Even if they agreed on a fee beforehand, so what? Kuchar's odds of winning were small, he won, why be so a cheapskate?

Devil's advocate again: were he a cheapskate, he could have had his wife or brother or someone carry the bag. And $5k for, what, 40 hours of work is $125/hour. To carry a bag and rake some bunkers.

I generally tip well, and if he paid only $5k, then that kinda stinks, but:

a) I'm not a big fan of telling others how to spend their money.
b) We don't know at all what he actually paid the guy.

Eh. Sure, maybe the caddie got a bit more than he's letting on, but seems doubtful that he got anywhere near the vicinity of what seems equitable. Not saying he should have gotten 10% as a stand-in caddie, but Kuchar made $1.2M. Don't be such a tightwad. Give the guy $20k, $50k, something respectable.

Even if they agreed on a fee beforehand, so what? Kuchar's odds of winning were small, he won, why be so a cheapskate?

Well, my point was he could well have been paid 10 times more like you said, but if I was him (caddie) I would downplay it for my own good.

Now, if he really got that much ($3K or $5K) then yeah, that's a bit low in my book too. But that's just a passing judgement, since I (or most of us here for that matter..) have no idea want the terms were upfront. May be it's all about 'when in Rome...'

Devil's advocate again: were he a cheapskate, he could have had his wife or brother or someone carry the bag. And $5k for, what, 40 hours of work is $125/hour. To carry a bag and rake some bunkers.

I have it on really good authority from Kuchar's brother's Aunt's nephews step-son, that Kuch paid the caddie a beat up quater and a some pocket lint.
But the initial agreement was for far less, so the caddie made out pretty, pretty well!

Bottom line- unless you were part of the initial negotiation, everything else is speculation!

Agreed. But seems more likely than not that the pay was below what is considered equitable by much of the public, hence the story line. If this is all made up, then of course there's no story (other than a lying caddie and/or sour grapes ex-pro.

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

The other caddies are NOT doing the "same job."

Fair enough - which is why I'm saying it's not expected, at least by me, that he get anywhere near the 10% or so that a full-time caddie gets.

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

People are saying "Kuchar won by one shot so I think the caddie had to have helped him by at least a shot over 72 holes"

I haven't seen that, and agree that it's a weak point.

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

And $5k for, what, 40 hours of work is $125/hour. To carry a ﻿bag and rake some bunkers.

I generally tip well, and if he paid only $5k, then that kinda stinks, but: ﻿﻿

a) I'm not a big fan of telling others how to spend their money.
b) We don't know at all what he actually paid the guy. ﻿

Good for you, I do as well. And yes, that it stinks (if he did pay that) is really all I'm saying.

8 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Now, if he really got that much ($3K or $5K) then yeah, that's a bit low in my book too. But that's just a passing judgement, since I (or most of us here for that matter..) have no idea want the terms were upfront. May be it's all about 'when in Rome...' ﻿﻿

Could be, in which case in my opinion, it's not an equitable calculation. Would he have paid an American stand-in caddie the same? If not, some people might think that's fine. I don't.

I don't think we're not talking about actual value of work, we're talking about equitable pay.

Why should he get equitable pay when he didnt do equitable work?

While I've never been a caddie, It doesnt seem like it takes much skill or knowledge to carry the bag, clean the ball and rake a bunker. The value of the caddie comes in the other things @iacas mentioned earlier, knowledge of what club to hit based on past experiences, how to handle the emotions of the player, the trust factor that exists on green reading and club recommendations, etc. IMO that is what makes a PGA Tour caddie valuable.

The temporary caddie likely didn't provide the same value as Kuchar's regular caddie, so IMO it's fair that he likely didn't get paid as much as the regular caddie.

I agree. As I stated above, I'm not saying he should get anywhere near the 10% full-time caddies get. But the guy is a working caddie, not just some Jose off the street that carried a bag for a few hours. Equitable doesn't mean the same, it means fair.

6 minutes ago, klineka said:

The temporary caddie likely didn't provide the same value as Kuchar's regular caddie, so IMO it's fair that he likely didn't get paid as much as the regular caddie.﻿

I agree. As I stated above, I'm not saying he should get anywhere near the 10% full-time caddies get. But the guy is a working caddie, not just some Jose off the street that carried a bag for a few hours. Equitable doesn't mean the same, it means fair.

Agreed. But seems more likely than not that the pay was below what is considered equitable by much of the public, hence the story line. If this is all made up, then of course there's no story (other than a lying caddie and/or sour grapes ex-pro.

Let me be really, really clear about this: you don't know what "the pay" was. Nor does "the public." So who cares what they think when the key piece of information is literally "unknown."

13 minutes ago, chspeed said:

$1.2M to hit 320 golf balls makes sense though? 😉

Straw man. He didn't train to be a caddie since he was 10, nor does carrying a bag and raking traps take skill.

Kuchar won $1.2M not for hitting 320 golf balls, but for hitting millions of golf balls, and hitting the vast majority of those better than 99% of golfers in the world.

13 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I don't think we're not talking about actual value of work, we're talking about equitable pay.

He didn't do an equitable job.

13 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Could be, in which case in my opinion, it's not an equitable calculation. Would he have paid an American stand-in caddie the same? If not, some people might think that's fine. I don't.

You don't know what he paid the guy.

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Why should he get equitable pay when he didnt do equitable work?

Right, because he didn't.

5 minutes ago, chspeed said:

But the guy is a working caddie

Who - IF he was paid $5k - was paid 11x his normal rate to… wait for it… carry a bag and rake some bunkers.

5 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Equitable doesn't mean the same, it means fair.

It also means "the same," particularly in golf where "in equity" literally means treating like situations alike - the same.

If it comes to light that we know for a fact Kuchar paid the guy $5k, then I'll jump right on board and say "man, that's cheap." (Even though from some perspectives, it's a ton of money for the guy to carry a bag.)

But I'm not on any side right now because we don't know the most important bits of information. So I see little point in even discussing it.

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Let me be really, really clear about this: you don't know what "the pay" was. Nor does "the public." So who cares what they think when the key piece of information is literally "unknown."

Uhm, let me be really, really, really clear about this: I know that I don't know what the pay was. That's why my first comment said that this if this is all made up (in other words he paid him a lot more), then there's no story.

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

But I'm not on any side right now because we don't know the most important bits of information. So I see little point in even discussing it.

Yeah, you just seem to be trolling your own forum. If you don't want to discuss this and have nothing to add, why post here?

Apologies, just reread this and it comes off as too aggressive - didn't mean it to sound that way.

I was discussing this entire thing in a hypothetical, which I've said a few times in this thread. We do that all the time in forums. It makes it fun.

Uhm, let me be really, really, really clear about this: I know that I don't know what the pay was. That's why my first comment said that this if this is all made up (in other words he paid him a lot more), then there's no story.

﻿﻿Yeah, you just seem to be trolling your own forum. If you don't want to discuss this and have nothing to add, why post here?

Because I think it's stupid that people are slamming a guy when they don't know the most important fact about the whole thing.

Let's just make up a bunch of unsubstantiated stuff, or find someone who will make up a bunch of unsubstantiated stuff, and talk about it! What fun!

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I know it's a little late, but I said no majors before the year started and am sticking to that, although I hope I'm wrong. I think his best shot will be at Pebble. I do think he will finish in the top-3 there but I think one of the big hitters (DJ, Koepka, Rory) will power through.
PGA wins, I'll go with 2. I think he'll win one of his normal events (Bay Hill or Memorial) and then win a FedEx event. I think he will get into the top 30 with a lot of top-10 finishes this year to play The TOUR.

It hasn't been too cold in NC, but it has been as wet as I can remember. I have played once this week, and it has rained every day, and is supposed to rain this weekend. I've played less this winter than any winter in recent memory. Hurry up spring!

Also happening on the LPGA:
The full videos doesn't show it, but I'm wondering if Olson gave a sign or something to Jutanugarn not to mark here. Jutanugarn goes to start marking her ball, it looks like, and she looks over at Olson, motioning something, and immediately stops. This seems awfully close to the line, if not over it.
LPGA apparently deleted a tweet about this, too:
Yikes.

I chose time because a lot of people I know don't want to play because it's too long for them and they don't have the time. Also here in Canada, Quebec accessibility is starting to be an issue, probably more than in the U.S. A lot of golf course are sold to property developers and it's starting to limit the choices of course at close range. I don't think money is an issue, there is always deals you can find to play golf at a discount and other activities cost as much as golf these days.