Countertrey wrote:You have to have a defense in order to get to the playoffs.

Sam

Sonny.

Done.

Labaron get honorable mention.

Theisman is NOT in the conversation. He and Ryp, were the product of the mind of Gibbs.

not to go off into a whole other debate but a great QB can overcome a poor defense.. look at the Patriots for instance, they have had Defenses routinely ranked in the bottom if not last in the league and they practically make the Super Bowl each year and are a playoff team because of Brady. The Redskins made the playoffs just this past year with a very suspect D but Great QB

but my point was that IMO I think playoffs/ Superbowls are important hence the reason I ranked Sonny lower than all you.

Personally, I give greater weight when a QB wins a SB. That's why #7 is above Sonny and #17 (as someone that only played 12 games as a skin) is even on the list.

I was tempted to put Mark Rypien above Sonny --- since he was the QB of arguably our greatest offensive season in history and had the best QB season in a SB year. However, Sonny was just too consistent and here for so long. It also doesn't hurt that he is still a huge part of the franchise even today as an announcer.

Kilmer was a solid QB, but not one of those "all time greats" that you talk about. Williams had an incredible SB run, but couldn't follow it up.

All in all, those are really the only skins QBs worth mentioning at this point (at least on an "all time" list). RGIII has the potential to top this list, but he needs to win a COUPLE SBs to do so.

Griffin should NOT be in the top ten...not just yet anyway. There's no doubt he will be there eventually.

I understand your logic based on his experience level. But, Mark Brunnell? Jay Schroeder? Even with more experience, they had less than stellar careers with the Redskins. Unless you're going off of body of work.

The Hogster wrote:I understand your logic based on his experience level. But, Mark Brunnell? Jay Schroeder? Even with more experience, they had less than stellar careers with the Redskins. Unless you're going off of body of work.

Mark Brunell helped orchestrate one of the best comeback games in recent history...and it was against the cowpukes. He also led the team to a playoff victory, the last qb on this team to do so. Schroeder led the team back in 86 to a 12-4 record, then won the majority of the games for us next year which led us to a Superbowl victory.

Mark Brunell helped orchestrate one of the best comeback games in recent history...and it was against the cowpukes.

This is true. I was a witness. But, keep in mind, in order to have a great comeback, you have to first be losing! Don't get me wrong, that was a great comeback win. But, we were inept on offense for all 56 minutes of that game--much like we were all year.

He also led the team to a playoff victory, the last qb on this team to do so.

A win is a win. But, to my last point, that win against Tampa Bay set an NFL record for futility. We were the only team in history to win a game with such a low total of yards. The Redskins only gained 120 total yards that game. But, those were the days when Gregg Williams was dialing up Top 5 defenses year in and out.

Schroeder led the team back in 86 to a 12-4 record, then won the majority of the games for us next year which led us to a Superbowl victory.

I'll give you this one without much argument. This was a better year than RGIII had, but I simply gave RGIII a bump because I weighed their ability in addition to the stats. If it were a ranking of the best seasons by a QB, I'd go with this one over RGIII. But, when ranking the best QB, I'll put RGIII ahead of him.

Countertrey wrote:You have to have a defense in order to get to the playoffs.

Sam

Sonny.

Done.

Labaron get honorable mention.

Theisman is NOT in the conversation. He and Ryp, were the product of the mind of Gibbs.

not to go off into a whole other debate but a great QB can overcome a poor defense.. look at the Patriots for instance, they have had Defenses routinely ranked in the bottom if not last in the league and they practically make the Super Bowl each year and are a playoff team because of Brady. The Redskins made the playoffs just this past year with a very suspect D but Great QB

but my point was that IMO I think playoffs/ Superbowls are important hence the reason I ranked Sonny lower than all you.

Your argument that the Patriots have a poor Defense is factually wrong. They are flexible, and are superior on a short field. Beyond that, the Patriots frequently grind out yardage... that means, time on the field for the offense... every minute the O is ON the field, the D is NOT. They make the superbowl because they have an excellent Offense that controls the clock, and a Defense that is good enough. In the 60's, the Redskins defense consisted of 4 players. An average defense would have resulted in multiple post season performances.

When you have a quarterback like Sonny (and no running back, which was the case for MOST of Sonny's career)... you will score quickly quite often. That means that you may be losing the TOP war... and, if that's the case, your D had better be pretty darned stout.

Your characterization of this year's Redskins D is also based on a purely statistical analysis... This defense was quite good on a short field... and, like the Patriot's d... played pretty darned well in the second half of the season, and with it's back against the wall.