1 <Day 30 2(10.30 a.m.) 3MR JUSTICE GRAY: Yes, Mr Irving? 4MR IRVING: May it please the court, may I just first begin, as 5this is our last informal session, so to speak, before we 6come to more formal matters, just by expressing words of 7my appreciation for the work put in by the defending firms 8of solicitors. They have had an extra burden put upon 9them by the fact that I am a litigant in person and I 10deeply appreciate their efficiency in this matter. 11I appreciate their help in this matter. 12MR JUSTICE GRAY: That is very fair of you to say that. 13MR IRVING: It is proper I should say that as a matter of 14record. My Lord, I have two or three matters to deal with 15today. If I can propose the agenda for this morning? It 16would be to deal with these two or three matters of mine 17first which include my points on the video films, then 18subsequently to take up the matter of your Lordship's list 19of issues, unless your Lordship wishes to put it the other 20way round? 21MR JUSTICE GRAY: That sounds to me perfectly sensible. 22Mr Rampton, you do not object to that, do you? 23MR RAMPTON: What I would suggest we do is Mr Irving makes his 24points -- I had thought there was only the one individual 25video in question actually which was the Halle video -- if 26he makes on that, then Mr Julius, if your Lordship will,

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1will reply on that because he knows the story, I do not, 2and if it goes through me, I am likely to get it wrong. 3Then, when we have done that and your Lordship has made 4whatever ruling or decision is necessary, then we should 5go on to the list. I also want to say something about the 6closing speeches which, looking at the transcript of 7Thursday evening, it ended up in a bit of a muddle. I do 8not really know what it is that I am supposed to do, but 9I would like to go back to that and revisit that, if I 10may? 11MR JUSTICE GRAY: Sure. So, Mr Irving, let us start off with 12the ---- 13MR IRVING: My Lord, I have put a small bundle, or two or three 14small bundles, in front of your Lordship. The one marked 15"A" in the top right-hand corner, as your Lordship will 16remember, there was a question as to whether the diary 17entry July 24th on a certain day was complete, and I have 18now disclosed voluntarily the entire diary entries for 19that week, effectively, which shows there was one sentence 20redacted. There was a suspicion, my Lord, that there 21might have been some reference to the National Alliance in 22that opening sentence and ---- 23MR JUSTICE GRAY: And there is not. 24MR IRVING: There is not. If the Defendants wish to send 25somebody to inspect the actual computer disk on which that 26entry is recorded, just to make sure it has not been

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1amended in some way, then I would be quite happy to ---- 2MR JUSTICE GRAY: I doubt whether they will want to. 3MR IRVING: --- to establish. My Lord, little bundle B ---- 4MR JUSTICE GRAY: I am sorry, I am going to just put these 5documents where they belong. I will not do it now but can 6somebody give me the ---- 7MR RAMPTON: RWE 1. I cannot tell you -- tab 2. 8MR JUSTICE GRAY: Good. 9MR IRVING: Little bundle B. Your Lordship wished to have a 10note on the BBC gas chamber propaganda, if I can put it 11like that. I have put together a two-page summary of a 12broadcast made by one broadcaster, Thomas Mann, the famous 13German novelist, in November, January and June 1942 which 14I think are the material dates, before the Rigner letter 15from Geneva, and attached to that are photocopies from the 16published version of his broadcasts, and the footnotes are 17the references from his diaries which fix the actual dates 18when the broadcasts were made. 19MR JUSTICE GRAY: Did he talk about---- 20MR IRVING: He did talk about gas chambers. 21MR JUSTICE GRAY: --- gas chambers? 22MR IRVING: My Lord, he talked about mass gassings at line 2 of 23the second page. He talked in the second item, which is 24dated January 1942, of 400 Young Dutch Jews being sent as 25test objects for poisons gas. He corrected that on June 2626th 1942 to say it was 800 who had been to Mauthausen

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1where they were gassed. 2MR JUSTICE GRAY: Yes. Again where is that? 3MR IRVING: My Lord, you have already had something like that 4similar, but not in that neater form. 5MR JUSTICE GRAY: Unfortunately, I have not, I think, now got 6all the... 7MR IRVING: I will certainly refer to that in my closing 8address with all that detail, and so you might wish just 9to throw those away. 10MS ROGERS: For ease, if you put in J2, tab 19, which is the 11next empty tab, we will provide an index to Mr Irving of 12everything that is in J2 and ---- 13MR JUSTICE GRAY: You have done that almost up-to-date already, 14I think. 15MR IRVING: My Lord, the next matter is the Halle video or 16videos. If your Lordship will turn to bundle C, which is 17somewhat thicker, but I am not going to take you through 18all the documents on that, it was a bundle put together 19for the actual action in a lower court before Master 20Trench. It is bundle C. I have inserted just behind the 21index a photograph of the three original videos which fell 22into my hands. They look rather tatty and I attach 23importance to that. 24MR JUSTICE GRAY: When you say they fell into your hands, you 25got these from this week, did you? 26MR IRVING: Let me first of all set out ----