Over 8000 Children Face Homelessness Due To Benefit Cap … And It’s Barely Even Begun

Over 8000 children are staring homelessness in the face this Summer due to the vicious benefit cap which punishes parents for the astronomical rents charged by landlords.

Recently released statistics show that 1,621 families in the London boroughs of Bromley, Croydon, Haringey and Enfield have had benefits cut by over £50 a week meaning homelessness is virtually inevitable. A further thousand have lost up to £50 a week, which combined with other benefit changes means many of them will also also be unable to pay the rent.

Most of those having benefits capped are larger families and statistics show over 8000 children will be affected. Families are likely to be forced into temporary, and often more expensive, accommodation to await relocation elsewhere in the UK. According to the DWP themselves families are expected to head for the seaside towns in South East England or the Home Counties. A recently released report by London Councils (PDF) warned that the previously introduced cap on Housing Benefits may be responsible for rent rises in outer London boroughs as the social cleansing of central London pushes up demand for rented properties to the outskirts.

The statistics were released in the week that it was revealed bungling DWP officials are spending £1.3 million a month administering the cap. A rough analysis of the figures suggests it is saving about a million a month so far. That saving alone is likely to be wiped out by the cost of temporarily housing these homeless families, without the social costs of these lives destroyed or the impact on local services wherever they eventually end up.

This Government is spending money to make children homeless. Children who will not understand why they have to leave the house or flat they may have grown up in and move into a single room in a dismal B&B or hostel. Why they have to leave not just school but friends, grandparents, and other family members. Why they can no longer see a separated parent, or why mum cannot afford the astronomical public transport fares for them to maintain relationships with extended family members. The impact of homelessness followed by relocation on these children will be devastating and remain with them for a lifetime.

Tragically these 8000 children are just the beginning. The four boroughs in the pilot area already represent some of the cheapest rental areas in London. Between now and October the cap is being introduced nationwide. According to the Government 200,000 children are set to be affected.

Even then the cleansing of London and other Southern cities will continue as rents soar and Housing Benefit rises are pegged at 1%. Women who find themselves pregnant at some point in the future will also be hit and face a choice between homelessness or abortion.

The Benefit Cap means the safety net of the welfare state has disappeared for families in London and the cost of that will be 200,000 childhoods destroyed. As rents rise in other cities a similar exodus is likely to occur whilst for some very large families there will be nowhere cheap enough to go.

Whilst the Tories sing this brutal policy from the rooftops children will go hungry and homeless as the Government takes revenge on their so-called feckless parents. And feckless means widows, disabled people, women fleeing domestic violence or parents unable to find a full time job that also allows them to also adequately care for young children or even new born babies. These children do not know that they are benefit scrounging scum. And when they see their mother’s crying as much loved family homes are abandoned they will not be able to comprehend the cruelty that has brought those tears.

Genocide. Utterly disgusting. Back to medieval times deceptively intertwined with Teflon tongued same, same ideologies but clothed in twisted propaganda garb in the 21st Century! I feel impotent as I live in Australia, but I do not feel removed from this heinous, abhorrent maltreatment of people undergoing this, and I am on board over here in any way I can help.

The worst, most vindictive, cruel, heartless, bungling, incompetent Government this country has ever seen.
The statement above is extremely inaccurate. While we may be vindictive, cruel, and heartless, we are far from bungling and incompetent. In fact, our process to rid this country of you lowlifes in order to free up capital to increase our bank balances was very carefully planned out, and is proceeding exactly as expected.

it beggars belief that after all my father and thousands of other men fought for (and in loads of cases died ) to eliminate the Nazi regime back in the 40s and keep them from our shores, we now have the equivalent here 70 years later. and so many are struck dumb, not knowing how to fight it. something should have been done long before now to stop this but people didnt believe it was happening here. now it may be too late as our rights as humans are quickly being stripped away. already these vile creatures have brought in laws to stop peaceful protests and other things they deem is against the govt.and them personally.

Hi all
I don’t know much about politics etc,but I do know that they’re killing us off..
How come the queen hasn’t done anything about this? We are her subjects overall…
I’m still in awe & shocked at the speed that all of this has been brought among us…And ids changing the laws to suit himself…

To blackghost55…………..We are not subjects so much as objects…. The Royals do not see us as people of any worth. I can only imagine how much the royals dislike the lower classes. As for a royal stepping in with any morals to assist the little man? it aint ever gonna happen.

“The impact ofhomelessness…on these children will be devastating and remain with them for a lifetime.”

It is abuse every bit as damaging as sexual abuse; and the impact, while (marginally) more subtle, can be (is) as long-lasting and not so very different. But there is a difference: sexual abuse arises the from sickness of individuals, which society is trying to ameliorate; this homelessness, however, is arising from society itself, represented by the state. Go figure.

In all seriousness, we hope that these children will grow up happy and undamaged. In all seriousness, the government’s actions make that less likely. In all seriousness, the Daily Mail of the future will call them feckless because they haven’re built up any personal capital. In all seriousness, the Tories of the future will be saying that they don’t deserve to be part of ‘decent’ society.

In all seriousness, many of them are going to be punished throughout their lives.

sam..
the fundamental requirement for a happy life is a secure family home full of reliability…human beings need basic vitals of life or misery abounds. which is why the rich, want to maintain their levels of wealth and power, at everyone else’s expense..
there needs to be an end to benefit conditionality now, reduce rents and cap rents, stop inflicting misery to falsely maintain house prices…introduce workshare, eco-house self build, build more houses, a citizens income, to admit that capitalism is dead and cannot be revived, all demand for all goods, is now more than fully met, unemployment will continue to soar, we need a radically new economic development model, and new politics..people before profit …stop asset stripping, as the only way to create wealth it is not..

Great post Johnny void
Writing about the suffering children of these malevolent policies. How sad and true that they do not know they are viewed as’ benefit scroungers.’

Overburdened Donkey
I like the sound of the self build eco houses. I love eco stuff. I am a fucking hippie after all. If only the Government could get into this, wouldn’t it be great. They should with all this global warming. Did you see Grand Designs when once only ONCE the council allowed folk to build their own homes and rent them back. Kevin Mccloud revisited years later and the families were all thriving, so happy, doing really well. A real sense of community was going on, the kids were so happy. This was late 90″s. Your right children do need their basic needs met to be able to thrive and grow as happy well adjusted adults. Children need continuity and reliability I agree. What about Maslows’ Hierarchy of Needs’ he said people will never reach their full potential if these need s are not met. Food and shelter being the first vital need. The list goes on. These children will not be getting these needs met. Also this will create depression in mothers. This will not be good for young children will it.

jasmine
check out straw bale houses, this is what we should be doing…fcuking living not waiting to die, using our creativity to thrive, not having to deal with these anally retentive politicians who’s shit don’t stink..but alas we must 1st fight, to regain our natural freedoms, and get the sweetie jar off of these people….

Overburdenddonkey
Yes, we fight for our freedom back, and get these buggers out of office. This Tory tyranny is not going to work. Making the poor destitute will cause dysfunctional people in years to come. This is not ‘changing people’ this is killing people. Stress is a killer by the way, well everyone know’s this. So why would the Gov do this, they must know? We need some kind of Green party. The greedy people are going to knacker the planet anyway if they carry on with this materialistic world and throw away, buy new life style. Yes I want to be creative and live again, not wait to die. We can only create when we are not stressed out and fighting in ‘survival mode’.

Sam………….its scary is`nt it. I honestly believe `that` to be the agenda of government today. create a screwed up race of people.
There is no sense in what the government is doing other than an agenda to destroy the lower classes. We are easier to control when gone off the rails and imprisoned. And our going off of the rails does not affect anyone but our families and communities, its the little men who suffer at all times.
I believe we are under The NWO of control and the age old `control out of chaos` is in play.

Is there any chance the government could provide free housing and food, and then people could work for luxuries like TV, movies, and music downloads, like a combination of socialism and capitalism that made sure people’s lives weren’t destroyed by greed?

As the disgusting spectacle of the poorest most vulnerable people driven from their homes snowballs, the nation will start to look at itself, though before they get too introspective they will have to witness the collapse of the nhs. As society implodes around them the fascist regime will stifle dissent. But then this government is fantastically weak, already on 39 u turns. It wont take much to break these people, however the social devastation will take thirty years to heal. The class war will take up a new dynamic in October, with hospital closures, street lamp switching off, no guards on trains, fire station closures, vast police changes, and massive universal (credit) chaos, against a landscape of fracking in the tory heartlands. This is the twelve months now of breaaking Britain. But I shout “Bring it on. Bring it on you bunch of motherfuckers”. This government of fascists and sociopaths need to be gathered in a big room, doused with petrol, set ablaze – and most hilarious we can see how long it will take for a fire engines to reach them. But this government are ready for massive dissent. That’s why for two years they have been training paratroopers in riot control at Lydd. An important measure also is their Anti-Social, Crime and Policing Bill. This is already at the committee stage and will stop legal protests. The Tories have been sly with this one.

Last year the DWP put out the impact assessment for the benefit cap which said it will affect 56,000 households. The same DWP also wrote out to 88840 households to tell them they will be affected by the benefit cap.

It is the (so-called) ‘large’ family that will be affected by the benefit and on average each of these households will have 4 children. Given the same DWP estimate the average benefit cut will be £93 per week this also means eviction and homelessness is a certainty.

So the numbers of children affected will not be 8000 it will be somewhere in the region of 225,000 (56,000 x 4) to 350,000 (88,840 x4) and the 800 figure is a huge understatement

Not quite mentioned: Where people are separated or separating, living by necessity already in separate homes but the adults are still in a relationship, or where the couple are in a custody battle:
Separating people like this would appear in many cases to have the effect of causing one or both of the adults to breach their conditions regarding access to, care of and support of the child. Of course, if you can no longer afford to physically get to your child because they’ve been relocated to somewhere too far away and expensive for you to get to (or inaccessible if you as travelling parent or they as other parent or child, or both/all parties, are disabled)… It could become proof you neglected or abandoned your child, and could cause the other (possibly the wrong person!) parent to be granted sole custody, perhaps banning the losing parent from all contact. Or it could result in both parents losing custody of all children at once. (And if still in housing, the bedroom tax would be applied for having their children removed – the same as if your child or relative actually dies – and they would probably be evicted.)

Where both parents need to share care and access to cope with their or their partner’s or the child’s disability, or to allow eachother as working adults to go to work (perhaps as jobshare/shifts), this arrangement would be destroyed to the extent where both parents had to give up their jobs.

If your child has followed government advice on being physically active and taking part in volunteering, afterschool clubs, and social projects, it is likely they will need a parent to take them to and from these activities. This could no longer be possible if the family have been split up by the bedroom tax and relocation, and if the remaining parent is struggling to pay the whole rent/mortgage and bills while cramming in extra work hours (as per UC rules), servicing debts, looking after the other children, and possibly having to attend workfare on top of all this…. Something’s gotta give. And it’s probably the kids’ sports and social clubs, extracurricular catchup classes, school trips, packed lunches (no time to make them), new shoes…

Compassionate Conservatism. Tough on families, tough on the causes of families.

I have two fears which, if they’re not nonsense, ought to be… but I have them.

1. There are too many people who shut their eyes and keep their heads down, and who convince themselves that all is well. (Of course, when they hit a crisis, their eyes will be opened… but maybe too late…)

2. The Heaven-Born really DO hate the scum-of-the-earth as much as they appear to; and they really do WANT the children of the poor to suffer at every opportunity.

It’s more than that, much more. They believe they are doing God’s work. Their business is to cause as much hardship as possible for the majority of people, in order that we are provided with the circumstances for Spiritual growth. That is what the PWE is all about. We are all the victims of mass social engineering that goes back centuries and continues to this day, and are all part of an Alchemical experiment (begun by the likes of Dr. John Dee, Queen Elizabeth 1st, Sir Francis Bacon, to name a few). The Masonic elite call it ‘Statecraft’. I have already contacted the Holy See about IDS’s role in this, and put it to them that he should be excommunicated from the Catholic Church, but am yet to receive a response. This is not a conspiracy theory, I have thoroughly researched this subject over decades.

It was clear to me you meant 8000 so far as the post referred to the DWP propaganda release which details the first 10 weeks which Inside Housing then put out as nearly 3000 affected by the benefit cap. Readers believe it will only affect 2900 families when it is 18 to 30 times that number. And that’s a classic example of why the point needs to be made clear, that this is just the first 10 weeks, and what we all need to guard against.

The benefit cap will affect 225,000+ children in its first year and more each year as rents will rise faster than the cap (the systemic flaw in the overall benefit cap) yet if the reader takes this post out of context and believes just 8000 children will be affected – bad enough in any case – then no challenge will come to it as public opinion will not be altered and this battle for hearts and minds with the OBC is hard enough – Try explaining that a benefit cap will cost the public purse £1bn per year more which it will and you get some really funny looks!!

When this is proven which will take time (similar to the Independent blowing the bedroom tax downsizing argument out of the water last week) all we can say then is I told you so.

Wow – why don’t they just tell the truth for a change – people are actually dying through his half baked policy’s, it makes me wonder if their made up after a few bottles of bubbly because the harder you look at them, they are unworkable and cost the tax payer more money whilst hurting the most needy – Pathetic

kate..
proof after the damage is done…coz he, ids, says, he believes it to be true….even though it can be plainly be predicted and proved before the damage is done that this policy is plain wrong, will ruin peoples lives, and punishes rather than helps people…

If enough people stood together, they could toss Cameron out. Mubarak was forced out by his people after all and he was a full dictator. But people are either too scared (understandable) too ill (like disabled people who have had their money taken and have to do hard labour for what should be theirs by right) or too lazy. Humans to like government are like ants. A single ant is no threat to a human, but a mass of army ants is highly dangerous. If enough of us said no, we wouldn’t need to descend to terrorism and law-breaking. A bad business could be boycotted until it crashed, a bad boss or landlord shunned in the street and made to leave town to buy food if no one served him or her. Sadly most people are too lazy to do that. As long as most people can’t be bothered to do anything, the few that do act can be stomped on.

If this government is not careful, it may step across this line and have real problems to deal with. And many of the people who would protect them will have been made redundant and be on the other side.

I wonder what kind of person will be voting for these thieving, lying, cheating, drug taking, upper class, inbred dim wits in the next election ?
Certainly not the poor – certainly not the elderly – certainly not the disabled, certainly not the people on low income and most certainly not the unemployed – Hmm I wonder who that leaves ?

That’s the beauty of their Plan. It doesn’t matter who you vote for, there is no Democracy. The Left/Right paradigm is nothing less than the Hegelian Dialectic being enacted over time. Thesis Vs. Anti-thesis produces Synthesis.

Exacty….. Landless Peasant, the way I see it, We are given a select few to choose from….. in `that` there is no choice. Choice is variety, political parties are not varied. all are upper classes and have never lived in the real world of hard labour and destitution.
The working classes built this land (all lands) with sweat, blood and tears and rewarded with nothing n return. The upper classes never once lifted a finger. still dont today. Yet they govern it!
Common sense screams we have been screwed over for years right from the beginning in fact, democracy is merely a word and not an action whatsoever. The liitle man never once had a right nor a say.

Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog and commented:
This is another important and deeply disturbing piece from Mr. Void. It’s disgusting that in modern Britain, a Britain which, so we are told, has one of the strongest economies in the world after America and Japan, children are going to be made homeless because of policies designed by the Tories and Lib Dems to favour the extremely wealthy. Way back in the 1950s the Beeb caused a storm over the plight of homeless families with the play ‘Kathy Come Home’. It started a debate and further action to try to remedy the situation. All that has been forgotten, and I wonder if we can ever expect the Beeb to dare to broadcast a similar piece of social realism with Cameron and the Tories whining about its ‘liberal bias’.

A few weeks ago Panorama did a very distressing programme on the horrors of homeless families in America. This was the American dream as Nightmare. The Coalition admires American capitalism and the transatlantic Right’s destruction of their minimal welfare system. Believe me, it’s coming here. These 8,000 poor sprogs are only the beginning.

If you ever needed a reason to despite Cameron, Clegg and the other bland, smooth-talking scions of class privilege and hypocrisy, here are 8,000.

The beeb will never oppose any gov. in power again, now that hi speed internet has rendered the license and the beeb obsolete.
People only have an ordinary television out of habit. As more tv’s
are purchased net ready, the prehistoric joke will die.
I havent had a tv for years and miss nothing i want whilst avoiding the joke that is soaps and reality tv. ‘PRIME TIME TELEVISION; Strictly come dancing? You must be a FXXKWIT to watch this, or any of its ilk and pay for the agony.

The Panorama film was grim – the reality for families in the film was continually moving from (grotty) place to place, mostly trying to manage in one room (‘cooking’/eating/sleeping) with no chance of staying at the same school for more than weeks at a time. Not being able to put down roots/make (or keep) friends. Without even mentioning the emotional distress of not knowing what the next week(s) would bring/when things would improve. Traumatic for parents/children.

Did anyone notice the new guidelines (Threats) being passed to town and city councils on how to deal with travelers and adhoc shelters , (For that read shanty towns) which will become the norm for many, Dave has that base covered before it has chance to gain any momentum.

My council is doing a similar thing, urging people not to give money to beggars cos they’ll only spend it on drink or drugs. They even disingenuously back this up by quoting a Glasgow University study (on beggars in Glasgow, I’ll bet, who are a different breed to those in my town). Like, I suspect, many councils around the country who’ve meekly passed on the Govt’s cuts, they want to absolve themselves and keep a lid on mounting public anger by casting the poor/unemployed/disabled as the authors of their own plight,
and therefore undeserving of any sympathy. The same old “deserving/undeserving poor” rhetoric, which never seems to fail with our gullible public…

Its all a plan. There always WAS a plan. Its just sometimes it gets interrupted. They want you to slave and graft and pay a tax burden of up to 70%, Then they want you to retire at 67 with the few beans you saved that they made worthless with deliberate inflation and snuff it at 70.
The statistics show that we are entering a baby boom. These children of immigrant parents are BORN TO PAY TAXES.. The resident population having become educated enough to not want more than 2 kids per woman,
thats where immigration comes in. But they dont want all these kids living in houses that cost the state anything, so they now move em on. It will be ghetto ville in every cheap town and city!.

It is hard to keep a perspective sometimes. I find it particularly hard with one disaffected daughter who is living in fear and insecurity. I seriously don’t know what can be done. But I wish all this anger could be channelled creatively against the government. The horrible irony for me is that we are not short of food or land or things to do but the economics have turned the rich into compulsive psychopaths and they are on a maniacal mission of annihilation.

Watch “Jackie Come Home”, it will be happening again before we know it with the welfare state being dismantled. 40 years of work to give the poorest in society some security undone in one term by these bastards. Shame on everyone who has done nothing to stop it, there’s just been another baby boom too I heard on the radio this morning, what hope for those children?

“A DWP spokesman said: “The benefits system supports millions of people who are on low incomes or unemployed and there is no evidence that welfare reforms are linked to increased use of food banks.”

But the Trussell Trust points out that the number of people referred due to problems with benefits has soared; eight years ago, the proportion going to their food banks for this reason was 20 per cent; now it is 52 per cent.”

*So complete denial of their actions. If they admitted them there could (conceivably) be uproar and calls for them to act/stand down, whathaveyou.
Most people are able to understand cause & effect and that if you drop someone, they will fall on the floor & if there’s a hole the size of Kansas in the floor they’ll fall through that too (& then need an ambulance/some form of emergency help).

F’s views fit exactly with: “there’s none so blind as those that will not see”.

By rights, the monsters (ministers) ought to be embarrassed every time they reiterate this abhorrent view/’belief’ amongst themselves to carry on colluding in/propagating the line that “there’s no link”. No-one can be quite that dim – can they? So anyone who endorses such delusional argument is also trying to legitimise the offence (of extreme bullying and impoverishing). Their only other option is to admit that they can see it and that it is wrong. If someone(s) refuse to see what’s going on, all across the country, and continues to prefer to take the moral high ground – and even, as you’ve said many times – ‘believe’ that the people responsible for such extreme incidences of poverty are those who are experiencing it … Missing the point so spectacularly has to be deliberate – there’s no question that Lord F.is quite so …. credulous.
(You almost couldn’t make it up). They (DC) talk at length about how/why bullying is unacceptable … – they’re the experts.

Do the “haves and the powerful” keep shutting themselves away from truly seeing the “have nots” or do they all join forces and bring about change! The latter is needed otherwise a continuance of such a state of affairs widens the notion and reality of “valuable” and “invaluable” human beings. Just awful

inavukiic…
yes awful..people are discarded, coz because the economy is oversupplied with labour…and we are no longer deemed deserved of accommodation that has been put beyond our means, by capitalist market principles…

Just to add my 5p worth. I’ve been homeless for a year and a half from 2007 to 2009 with four children and it is something you never, ever forget. It also changes you. It has damaged my children and however hard we try we will never climb our way up again. Homelessness itself is bad enough but you become an object for abuse by the very people tasked to help within the housing departments. The first issue is that you cannot register as homeless until you are actually on the street, The Council will tell you that children cannot be kept in B&B’s longer than 6 weeks which is true but they then find every reason they can to find you ‘deliberately homeless’, stretch the appeals process out as long as they can while you and your family languish in a filthy B&B with no facilities such as cooking and laundry. The owners of The B&B enter rooms with a skeleton key whenever they feel like it on the pretext of ‘cleaning’, while the Council routinely loses paperwork and threatens you with the street and bringing in Social Workers to take your children. The B&B’s themselves are a scandal raking in hundreds of thousands of pounds almost unregulated by inspectors. Children have to witness drug taking, fights and other substance abuses. In other words a homeless person becomes a ‘sub human’ which is something you never, ever forget. Our homelessness was not caused by the benefit cap but by greedy parents not wishing to re-pay us for huge renovations carried out to their home for which we sold our home to pay for and a corrupt Barclays Bank which committed perjury in court. It really breaks my heart to know what these poor families are going to have to go through and the Courts themselves will waste no time in getting them out. We were given less than 24 hours

Hi Serena, yes the uncertainty is difficult when not having a permanent home, especially for kids. In my early teens I lived in 2 different B&B’s, both were god awful for 6/7 months at a time (the 6 week rule must not have existed in the 90’s). In one of them the 3 of us shared 1, not very big room and the council were charged £550 per week for the privilege! Jeez, you’d think at those prices it would be the Ritz, or at least a Lenny Henry style cheap n cheerful effort! Nope, complete and utter dives, with the obligatory creepy crawlies and lots of people who apparently confused the toilet with the toilet seat and floor! Disgusting. Your posts excellently highlights the problems of these places and the way they make you feel less than. These policies are being implemented by those who really are less than… These scumbag politicos should try living in one of these places see how they like it. I’m glad you got through it, I hope life is better for you and your family now your out of that environment.

The council houses are for the people, were built by the people and have been paid for by the people who live in them a few times times over.Many council house occupants have spent a fortune decorating,and keeping the houses/flats and gardens in good condition. The housing benefit cap affects those even in work but not earning enough. This attack on children represents how abusive this system is and any so called support agency are filled with hungry career driven control freaks from gingerbread to support workers all gasping at the bit to take your children so they can feel important.

i dont understand why famlies as Rich above mentioned, arnt put in a lenny henry style inn… got to be better and cheaper per week etc than a crappy b/b… could do a deal with the hotel, good for them, good for the familly..
but unfortunatly thats far to logical a thing to do,, they would rather pay 500 quid a week for a dump than just keep the people in thier original house for a quarter off the price,,, insanity is what it is…and the reason…
to prove a point…
dont forget britain is obsessed with blame, we spend time, effort and millions of pounds on finding someone to blame..and when we do, the poor bastards life gets destroyed in the process, and the problem remains.

we are quite an sick society, unfortunatly, this desease is spread thruout all sections of our society, unfortunatly a lot of brits buy in to this madness, the hi viz wearing, clip board holding person barking out, health n safety orders, “” u cant do this and u cant do that””” they say..

what gets me about what these people are doing, is there is no logic to it, in 20 years time britain will be a 3rd would country, except inner london that will be fenced off and guarded by the army…
at the mo, im learning several languages including german,
i dont want to live in this country anymore………….

The coalition government are more interested in legislation about dogs rather than the plight of the homeless in our society.
There is probably more legislation regarding cruelty to animals than cruelty to human kind……….
As you state in your article, things are going to get even worse as the psychotic sicko’s of Westminster turn the thumbscrews even tighter on the poor and disabled.
The words, “let them eat cake”, springs to mind, the mindset is in proportion.
Free schools for “TOFFS” are higher up the agenda of politics as the streams of pestilence goes virtually unnoticed, the media playing the hand of a deadly game of cover up.
You can kick a dog for only a short time till it reacts. This dog is a rottweiler that will go for the throats of politicians.
Its all pent up and ready to pounce.
They have no way of knowing, yet it will take them all by surprise……..

I hear what you are saying hon but, humans and animals alike should be treated equally. All are life after all. There should be no argument as to whether animals should get the lesser deal in society.
Same goes with rich and poor…. No one should be living in luxury while another suffers in poverty. I have believed this about 3rd world countries for years.
I have guilt that I have a roof over my head and food whiles others are starving and homeless.
We all need remember everyone and every life form is as precious as our own. If we do not? we are no better than the scum in government/royalty etc

The body count of welfare reforms is rising daily, yet the departments such as DWP try to distance themselves from the horrors of their ill thought out regimes.
Hiding behind freedom of information clauses, they are challenged regularly to account for the deaths that are evident.
You can only run for so long till the spectre of your attrocities comes baying at your heels………

“Bedroom Tax” Am I opposed to it? NO…Before anybody gets pissed off..
Not in its current form,if a dwelling is to large and “if”suitable housing is available then it would be reasonable to down size,but a lot of things should be taken into consideration and there should be an alternative to being forced to move. I am Sofa surfing(3 years) I was shown a room in a shared house(Former Council House) 8 rooms to let £92 pw plus £22 utilities,I found a 2 bed flat for £65 pw and approached the Council as this would save them money..The response “You are not entitled to a 2 bedroom”
It makes no fucking sense!

Of course it makes no fucking sense, which is why you ought to oppose it !
I am in a 2 bedroom flat (though I actually only have one bedroom) and was transferred to this flat about 7 years ago when my previous flat, a small bedsit, was flooded due to faulty workmanship (leaking central heating above me). Both my present flat and the previous bedsit are in the same house, where I have lived for 16 years in total. I am settled here, I know everyone here, I don’t want to move. There are no other suitable flats for me to move to. How is this fair?

mkm..
+ there is a 96% short fall in the required property types within the social housing portfolio, to down size into..and this govt that weren’t elected, know this fact..
so this policy is not about people downsizing into smaller social housing accommodation, coz there is none…but, managed decline…

It seems that the majority of people in Britain don’t care what happens to anyone else so long as it doesn’t affect them. Even some low paid workers would like the idea of the unemployed being in a worse situation than themselves. The tories are doing well in the polls and labour won’t reverse much of the cruel benefit caps imposed on the poor. The riots that resulted from thatchers poll tax are a distant memory as the council tax has resulted in a kind of acceptance even though they are the same tax.
The unions are weak and labour are not a party of the poor and only use us to get elected and then look after the middle classes.
Even if all the poor people in the uk with the right to vote registered who could they vote into power that would correct the wrongs of this coalition government?

Rob, I am in total agreement with you.
The point I make above, in response to Geoff Reynolds says my views on that.
We are all as precious as one another, race, gender, class even species is irelevant. Life is life and all life, feels pain, bleeds and suffers when abused.

I agree too no other political party is any better (or different) to another all seek to be in power. None have toiled, fought, lost, risen from nothing etc

The best quote ever to some up the state of this world is by Martin Luther King JR

`When the power of love replaces the love of power, only then will there be world peace`
All political parties want is power. None are worthy to govern

maybe david ickes got a point and the elite are all lizards..
i dont see any humanity in what they are doing……

the whole system of how we live our lives in this country has become far to complicated, try buying acheap train ticket for example
its as if the actual laws and rules we live under, are sufficating everything.
and people are to obsessed by them,
as mkmkmk mentioned, he found a cheaper flat,,, but because of some stupid rule, he couldnt take it…
empty 2 room flats in tower blocks cannot be allocated to people with kids, if above a certain height… a stupid health n safety rule, getting in the way of peoples lives,
in fact i could spend all day, pointing these things out.
but the crazy thing is,,,,, we all do it to each other..

The predicament we find ourselves in now, is deliberate gov policy to reduce living standards,for those in most need in order to increase the profits of those in least need. By reducing wages and offering 0 hrs contracts,will lessen the need for immigrants to do the more demeaning jobs. And we the strivers will accept any conditions of employment that suits the ideology of the Condems. We need a government of the people for the people,not a government that represents only the elite.

Overburdenddonkey
Yes, I want to read all of Alice millers books. Read ‘The body never lies’ and ‘Drama’. She seemed quite adamant where Hitler’s anger, unconscious projections, rage, scapegoating, and his dangerous repression originated from. I will get ‘for your own good’ soon, when can afford it lol. Its so weird tho. If she was still alive and had IDS on the couch I wonder what her analysis would be?

jasmine…
what would atos make of “the body never lies”, they would call the body a liar…
hitler rose to power coz no one stopped him, he thought he was ok and fully justified in what he was doing..he crushed anyone who did not share his views, these people do what they do, so as not to get in touch with their emotional injuries, coz they are too painful..hitler et al were/are driven by denial..
bob johnson was sacked from parkhurst prison, for curing violence…curing violent prisoners was not seen as the politically correct thing to do…well worth a look see on the web…

Fracking hell, lol.
Atos would be indenial of their denial as Dr R. d. laing would say. Society is getting sick, living in all this denial. I will look at the bob johnson thing sounds interesting and similar to Dr R. d. laing. He was a hated man in psychiatry and think he got sacked. He was curing schizophrenics but they were’nt avin none of it. I think the prescription drugs industry makes a lot of money. My other post is lost I think? If it comes up twice ignore it.

jasmine…
we have to find our way through this maze…r d laing, “problems in living”..fcuk we have some problems in living now don’t we..bob discovered the curing truth..of “no, get lost”..”how dare you be so rude”…”do you get paid to be so rude”..of freeing up voice, to express rage, and feel good about it..”piss off”and mean it, discover true self…it takes time, and never give up determination, coz we know the crap being dumped on us aint right ..
this group of fools we so often discuss, try to block out voices, and cause frustration…pavlov…

overburdenddonkey
Omg! Pavlov. The conditioned stimulus. They are going to create phobias and mental health in people. The brown envelope syndrome is already happening. Yes they try and silence us but its not working.
Anyone on here who is suffering schizophrenia should check r. d laing out shouldn’t they. The drugs have nasty side effects on folk being treated for schizophrenia. Also I checked out Dr Bob Truth. I like his style. He doesn’t like the fact psychiatry is going down the bio chem route. Well he has a point. I smell denial again, and I think Dr Bob Truth does. We do have to say fuck off and leave us alone you swines. It feels good to voice that, not just to Gov but anyone who takes advantage of you.

jasmine yes pavlovs salivating dogs…bob johnson has indeed written “unsafe at any dose”…he does not even like psychiatry even though he is a psychiatrist..”full of toxic gossip”..does more harm than good…bob johnson cures schizophrenia etc…read the parkhurst story…he and his wife sue are on a mission to get the truth out there…nick davies “the mad world of parkhurst prison”..tells bobs story, of curing prisoners..then you can see what can be done and ask why it is not being done now??

Soon be winter, my joints are starting to hurt bad as the temperatures subside.
Looking forward to gazing at the beautiful patterns in the ice on the insides of my windows. The gas fire has not been lit for four years now but the glow from the cuppa soup and several layers of clothing should ease the pains………….
Some will be celebrating, but i doubt the poor, homeless and disabled, will not be taking part this year.
The DWP party, with its banter about achieving sanction tables and “how i made them suffer”, will be in full swing.
Staff bonuses from the £44 million they stole from us will help pave the way for a great night out, alcohol running freely as their victims idly stare at the clocks, shivering and wishing they could end it all………
Ofgem and its ilk will also be on a jolly up, talk of how they misled the public once again and sided with their paymasters to push the energy prices beyond the realms of the most vulnerable.
As the clock strikes midnight on christmas eve, many will have perished. Hopefully they will transfer to a better life where people treat people like human beings. Their are no shirkers with closed curtains or disabled being spat at.
They might have considered the alternative, the infernos of hades, at least it would be warm!
What would we do if we had a bonus for failure? Could you ever consider a real branded item from a top shelf or would it be the usual, economy line plain wrapper item that you have grown so used to buying?

Yes, Christmas is coming and the goose is getting fat, and so is, Duncan Smith, the evil fucking prat!

……..as the last chimes of Christmas eve, herald in Christmas day, those of you who can still manage, raise an empty glass to those who could not see the error of their ways………….

Doth your cap as the hearse of welfare reform sneaks past your window, crunching tyres on the newly fallen snow as the crackers are pulled in Downing Street………..

That is the truth you wrote up there. Hang in there mate. I know how you feel. I suffer with the joint nightmare. My ankle is knackered after an accident. Atos annihilation. Incapacity benefit abolishment.
Did you read Mo stewarts stuff. Why wait forever. The DWP takeover of disability denial cowboys unum provident. Mo has osteo arthritis. She sure had to fight for her pension.

I am worried for people this winter. People who suffer chronic arthritis who cannot afford to put heating on is just disgraceful and sickening. How it is being left to go this far is disgusting.

IDS had been putting his champagne ice bucket on his sweaty bald fooking head this summer to cool down. This says in all.

I reckon there’ll probably be at least 10,000 deaths (maybe many more) this coming Winter due to cold and hunger (Hypothermia and Malnutrition), directly attributable to Tory policies. I may be one of them.

MP’s need to have their whole way of thinking altered. How about this – no second homes for MPs, just a purpose built hostel block within walking distance of Westminster, (could also be a good use for Centre Point, as I believe it’s stood empty since it’s construction in the 60’s) with basically furnished rooms, bed, desk, chair, cheap carpet & curtains,All to to be provided with a cheap laptop from Cash Converters with highly restricted internet access from a central off-site server,so parlimentary or constituency .business only, no access to porn, gambling or shopping sites possible. Also all MP’s are to be given a basic mobile phone with the pre-programmed number of their parlimentary office. Calls to family & friends will be permitted but only between the hours of 8.00 – 10.00 pm.
No luxury dining within Westmister either, just a couple of greasy spoons serving basic grub & all bars within the site to be closed.
MPs salaries also to be no more than the average blue-collar worker, no more perks or expenses or claiming for researchers who will be paid a salary from a central pot.
The greedy bastards will soon start bleating about how mean-spirited & unfair this all is, but this limited lifestyle is how they expect benefit claimants to live, so I think it’s more than good enough for them

Yes Kittycat.
Their job/work is not ALL THAT HARD OR DIFFICULT to do after all is it. Pay £75,000 pa, expenses £100,000+!!, extra home!. All paid for by tax payers and they have the cheek to call the plebs the something for nothing society.

Kittycat, thats the thing isnt it. For a country in so much debt and to all `be In it together`, these kind of cuts should be introduced. No perks no luxuries etc. Esp for those who can afford it.
Two homes is beyond unacceptable when so many are losing homes, minimum wages to all politicians, no expenses, no freebies….. How can most people in this country hate the poor when the rich refuse to give even a little back to help out?

samwise
oh.yeah it is still very current, and insightful…shows where they are coming from, and how they have not changed tack..and the truth of target based wca..not based on need but desired outcome and the political spin is built around their desired outcomes..to cause terror reactions in vile goads…

“The scariest part is the Tories aren’t even done with us all yet. Every time I open a newspaper or click on a link my heart beats that little bit faster…”

They’ll be done with us (maybe) when the newspaper is the only thing keeping you warm in the alleyway you’re slowly dying in and the only link you’ll be clicking is the one from the chains you’ll be wearing when they arrest you for vagrancy!

overburdendonkey
It does sound disturbing, there is certainly a blanket of silence with the mental health care in this country. Alice Miller wrote letters to the Government about her serious findings on brain research in young children. They took no notice. The Government must know how to “change people” in a good way then. If they were a good Government they really could help people, but they don’t. They make them worse. ‘Their o.k were not o.k’. I have been researching Dr Bob and his prison, it certainly does not surprise me. The man has a battle on his hands , and is doing good.

The likes of IDS, Hoban, McVey, Lord Fraud, Cameron and Osbourne will not be happy until the working classes are starving, destitute and fighting amongst themselves. Their policy is divide and rule, this is just what is happening and we are handing it to them on a platter. They would shoot us all if they could get away with it. Do you really think they care when desperate people take their own lives because they cannot afford to make ends meet and will be thrown out on the streets because they cannot afford to pay the bedroom tax or when people suddenly die when found fit for work by Atos. Do they care, do they f***.

They have created more evil in these past 3 years than the evil Thatcher did during her tenure, and that’s saying something.

To be honest those evil scum above are making Thatcher look like Mother Teresa. In the Thatcher era, I lived in the North East and it was certainly no picnic, however, things then were never as bad they are now.

I just fear the next 2 years until we can finally get rid of the bastards.

neither can I, but until there is, there will be lots more attacks on welfare and human rights. People should be organizing meetings and forming strategies in opposition instead of watching soaps or drinking their sorrows.

Me neither. But, if this general inaction goes on, you may sooner or later see your first suicide bomb that has nothing to do with religion. I’ll bet that there are guys desperate enough to have at least thought of it.

But you’re quite right; who are all these people who are going to take over the larger places?

Here’s a guess (sorry if it’s not original): If social housing can’t rent out larger properties, they’ll obviously, eventually, be forced to sell. The nicer properties well go to people with money. The rest will be sold to buy-to-let speculators who, unencumbered by the rules facing social housing, will cram people in at massively higher gross rents.

frank begbie..
yes they are no longer homes but houses…tell me who will now bother to make these places their home? these house will always be m/t shells…because of the continuous fear of one day being booted out for one reason or another….a young family moves into social housing only to fear 20yrs later they might be forced out…

The idea of any sort of stable contract between private citizen and the state has been blown out of the water. This will echo for a very long time – generations, I suspect.

This (along with so many other renaging actions by this motley govt) is a reversal of 500 years of history in this country; it is revolutionary, in fact: I don’t think people have begun to see the implications…

The social and economic prosperity of this country was based on a stable system of law and contract. The contract always tended to favour the rich and powerful, but it was stable and understood – and it provided a basis (within limits) for every variety of social, personal and economic investment and commitment (eg I never objected to paying my NI). But once the govt’s reliability is questioned (as it more must be) the whole house of cards collapses. (Why will the next generation want to contribute…?)

sam..
many have failed to see, let alone understand the implications of this unwritten but implicit torn up contract… they attempt to de-exist us…without our consent…laws have been made, that no longer accommodate those deemed by the state, to be of no further use to the state…we are no longer required, (some not able), to fill the work places up with our labour, the constant barrage of us being a drain, dumped on us..
now seen purely as obsolete machines, all the checks and balances that prevented us being used entirely as machines, now effectively removed…

I get the impression that quite a number of unemployed don’t care about the dire situation others find themselves in as long as it doesn’t affect them. No point in hoping labour win the election in two years time as they won’t make many changes. This government has to change it’s policies and it probably will after many have suffered extreme hardship. They will then say how they didn’t realise the social impact their policies would have although we have been expressing our fears to them from the start.
We all know the landlords have to be stopped from charging high rents and should be limited to charging the same as the local council for a similar property. Losing benefit for an extra bedroom when a smaller property isn’t available is clearly wrong.
Sanctions do have a part to play but only in extreme cases when someone is clearly not trying to find work or refusing a job. That case in Scotland when a guy applied for two jobs one week and four the next should never have got a sanction but instead a quiet word to him.
I’m sure eventually the repercussions of these attacks on the poor will result in so much harm that the government will have to tone its attack down and go back on a few decisions but many are going to suffer unfairly in the meantime.

“Sanctions have a part to play”? What bloody planet are you from? Sanctions , ie. leaving someone with no money for weeks sometimes months is no more than a spiteful act by the DWP to cover the fact there are NO JOBS out there to apply for. Read the article the link to which I’ve posted below, & then repeat that glib remark.

When I said sanctions have a part to play I meant in terms of people deliberately playing the system without any intention of finding work. I was not meaning leaving anyone without any money but the old system of leaving people with 60% of benefit and paying their housing costs. Some kind of system of pressure has to be used because the reality is that not everyone who is unemployed is genuinely looking for work. I am totally against this sanction regime of leaving someone with no money. People who say that everyone should receive full benefits regardless just give this government ammunition to get the majority of people on their side.

Sanctions should never be used under any circumstances,even if someone does not want to work,so what?, most people want to work but find they are getting less money for doing so,why should anyone be coersed into taking work to be worse off, it makes no sence to me.

So you think sanctions are OK then? Did you read the article I linked to about women doing sex work so they can feed their kids? Do you think that’s acceptable in a 21st century western country? If you do, then a sanction can’t come soon enough for you.

Rob
When there’s queue of 1,200 applications for just 2 customer service jobs, if you think it makes sense to spend £millions trying to find out if in any of them in the queue doesn’t really want to work… then you’re missing the big fat white elephant over there in the corner.

Hi murray222013
No one in work is worse off than on benefits as johnny void has stated many times. When people say that they should be allowed to stay on full benefits even if they don’t want to work that just gives this government the ammunition it needs to win over the majority of the british public. That after all is how many of the british people see the unemployed, as a bunch of lazy good for nothings. In fact most of the unemployed want to work but making comments that suggest we should just leave the don’t want to work brigade alone to keep receiving full benefits won’t help change peoples minds.
Sanctions should only be used in extreme cases and I am talking about reduced benefits not full benefit sanctions.

rob..
the vast majority of people want to work, for many reasons, the prime one being to remove oneself from grinding poverty, which is punishing enough, let alone to be further punished with sanctions and other forms of conditionality.
even when there is a brutal sanction system, such as there is now, that perception you describe of the unemployed and disabled is current, and we are still portrayed as lazy good for nothings???? so to dispel that myth would you argue for even tougher sanctions?

Rob, educate yourself on Universal Basic Income, it may change the way you think – it did for me. A good collection of articles can be found on the Unemploymentmovement.com website under the heading “Unconditional Basic Income Developments”

When the richest 1% of the country own 40% of all the wealth and when in excess of 120 billion pounds goes uncollected in tax from the rich, you know it’s time for a change.

Imagine if even a fraction of that wealth were to be redistributed to the working class who actually generate it in the first place!

If someone took a zero hours contract they would not be worse off but I wouldn’t recommend it. I noticed on another website that a freedom of information reply stated that a person can’t be sanctioned for turning down a zero hours contract job. Some jobcentre staff are deliberately misleading us using bullying tactics and that should be stopped. Some people have had sanctions because of so called mistakes by jobcentre staff and when it comes to sanctions everything should be triple checked before being made official and what about the rights of the individual to give their side of the situation before a decision maker can sanction someone. The system should be set up to make sure sanctions are not issued by mistake as it takes time to overturn these decisions.

rob
the system is a well oiled machine, and set up to punish the unemployed disabled for unemployment, and cause the animosities that you describe, ending conditionality, dignity of the benefit entitled.

Hi Overburdenddonkey
Many people are suffering from the benefit cuts and can’t be helped unless this government change their policies. It doesn’t help if people make comments that make the majority of people in Britain believe we are all lazy. Imagine if the labour party at the next election had a slogan such as “We will make sure that all the unemployed can stay on full benefits regardless”. I think that would result in a landslide victory for the tories don’t you?
Hi Kittcat58
I did see the article about women becoming prostitutes and everyones situation is different. It’s impossible to know the full situation that those women are in as the benefit system for people with children is quite good. I know a guy who has not worked for many years and is bringing up three kids. He really is happy with his lot and I don’t think he will be prostituting himself in the near future but you never know. If he does I certainly won’t be a customer.
The new rules that are being applied to parents to get them to look for work sooner than they used to may have had some effect but that would suggest that they have not been attending appointments or maybe looking for work. The bedroom tax might be another reason but the benefits they receive with children should allow them to budget more carefully and survive that compared to a single person on benefit who only has £71 a week so losing £15 a week would be more serious. We really don’t know the individual situations that these women are in. I personally buy a lot of everyday value food items these days and just about survive.

rob
i never implied that the unemployed and disabled are lazy..the perception held by another group is for them to hold and they will hold it regardless of what constitutionalities are imposed on the unemployed and disabled…the prospect of years of bleakness is imminent..there is no alternative political movement atm..perhaps the greens…snp for me…that people are selling sex to survive is awful…we simply do not need austerity on any level…austerity is counter productive, it does terrible social harm…we need a distributive economic system…

Budget on £71 a week? Again, I ask what fucking planet are you on/from? Must be planet IDS, otherwise you wouldn’t write such specious rubbish. Do you honestly think these women are selling themselves for pin money? Or for fun? Read the article again, they’ve resorted to sex work as they’ve been sanctioned & have NO BLOODY MONEY to feed their kids. And even if they could obtain regular paid work, the cost of childcare is prohibitive, I know this from exxperience, the cost of a childminder was more than my wages per week & that was for one child & that was 10 years ago. So tell me again how these women should able to budget & where it is possible them to find work that a LIVING wage rather than a subsistance wage.

Does Rob think the unemployed should work for charities to prevent them from being sanctioned, I was sanctioned many times for refusing to work for exploitative charities, something I have done in the past before they became big business and paid exec’s. extortionate salaries, but refuse on the grounds that at the time I was looking for paid work and my efforts would be hampered if working for a charity.
Sanctions and conditionality of the benefit system is just a way for this government to further rob the poorest in society, while most of the welfare pot goes on rent to greedy landlords or incompetent, useless work programmes, but the amount stolen from benefit sanctions is unaccounted for.

fawkes…
seems the more punishment sanctions that are imposed the less lazy we are perceived to be, by the elite employed, according to rob’s argument, ie we must have sanctions to prove to others we are not lazy!
so when these people start on the £120bn + state pension “pot”..what will the argument be then?

The arguments or decisions that are being made to sanction people have nothing to do with laziness most of the time, it’s to do with not turning up for meetings, signings because attending job interviews or anything else they can make up to sanction you. Robs argument is based on a false premiss so he is bound to come to the wrong conclusion.

fawkes..
agreed
i would have thought that most people employed or otherwise would welcome the end of sanctions on the unemployed and disabled, to create more self determination in our culture
sanctions are counter productive, deeply damaging, to human beings..
we need less animosity in our culture not more of it…blaming unemployment on the unemployed is cowardly.
lack of investment in our local economy, because banks do not get as good a return compared to investment in infrastructural industries, other global markets and emergent markets, which just take jobs away from our own economy, until labour is so cheap in our economy it all then, switches back, ebbs and flows, like the sea..all banks do is to switch capital at will, for the biggest buck..whether others think that the unemployed et al are lazy, is irrelevant in those terms..no govt can control the flow of capital, there are so many variables, in vested interests..that now exclude indigenous populations, from being part of those capital flows…we are being warehoused and kept jobs readied, for when the flows returns back to britain, local mass labour requirements in the uk is stripped to the bone…there are no jobs, coz the banks won’t invest in local business start ups, coz they don’t need to, and our not elected govt, won’t insist they do!

The keiser report today on RT telelvision channel forecasts that the top 4 banks will be in trouble again next year and will be sequestrating peoples hard earned savings to bail themselves out – more daylight robbery.

Is “quite good” where there are ‘children’ rather than ‘a child’? The amounts needed to sustain a person remain proportionate (but may go down for each child so it’s the same, or less?). 2 adults might make some difference – but can’t see DWP allocating more money to live on per person overall somehow …

Of course an adult (& a child) can wear shoes and/or clothes that no longer work well, have become unfit for purpose – it does happen. Most children’s feet continuously grow, though, even if it’s sporadically and at irregular intervals. It’s not just their feet – it’s the rest of them too. Winter coats – last year’s is unlikely to still fit (setting aside the option of making them feel really great in a coat/school uniform four sizes too big but with ample ‘growing room’) for now. They could all too easily become a magnet for bullying if constantly attending school in clothes 8 sizes too large, or 4 sizes too small, tatty and with holes – or minus required PE kit . Damage to confidence could result. They are often active (not all, or always), and can predictably be hungry on a regular basis – like the rest of us, only more so (In the traditional sense ‘hungry’ – age/size/appetite depending). If/when growing, more ‘fuel is likely to be needed. Travel costs are half the adult fare, but regular travel costs to cover (up to) 2-4 trips to from school per day (Adult+child fares) doesn’t compute. Schools offer educational trips (sometimes residential) with reduced costs for those not able to locate the full amount (can pay in instalments – but still). Other ‘extra curricular’ activities eg. music lessons too – similarly – the sums above can’t generally include (m)any of these ‘extras’ if the bare necessities for staying healthy/keeping warm are covered. (Birthday invites/easter/xmas/school holidays/weekends etc). Presents/days out are not easy to account for from the amount the DWP currently ‘offers’. Gas/electric/water/food/clothes/travel costs x 4 weeks/month routinely fall outside the types of amount DWP says is “the amount the law says you need to live on”.

DWP benefits are (a) set up for people with children, in the same way as for those without -they’re woefully inadequate, an insult and not fit for purpose. … All of the above ‘fine’ (or, more manageable’) with regular paid work, half-way decently paid, that doesn’t ‘run out of funding’ or similar after x months, but not realistic@JSA/CBenefit/CTax Credits ‘£’s’.

I was just making the point earlier that most people want to work but saying that the minority who don’t should not have benefits reduced in any way and can stay unemployed without applying for a single job until they reach retirement age is ridiculous. Even if 1000 people are applying for one vacancy still doesn’t mean that a person should not be applying for it. If we are set so many jobs to apply for a week and we achieve that then we should not be in fear of losing benefits. If a person knowingly doesn’t attend an appointment or interview that is different from someone who was not informed of the appointment in the first place. This mentality of stopping any reductions in benefit for anyone won’t wash with the general public as we all know a minority of people will play the system.
I have just completed the work programme and spent the last two months on the receiving end of the Jobcentre bullying tactics. Although they are sending me on one day sessions that I have completed many times in the past I am fully aware that they can’t be seen doing nothing with me so I have to attend them. I have to apply for so many jobs and although universal jobmatch is crap it at least offers me a few jobs to apply for to make up my quota even though I am fully aware that those jobs don’t exist.
Most sanctions are for missed appointments, non attending of interviews but some people are not making the minimum set to them and that will result in loss of benefits.
I have completed work placements at charities and multi million pound companies where no job was really on offer but it was do it or lose benefit.
In the old days my father died in terrible pain and as I did not apply for a job in the three months afterwards I had my benefit reduced by 40% for twelve months and of course loss of national insurance credits for that period. When I was around five years old I was left on the counter of the social security office with my sister and my father walked out of the office because he couldn’t manage on the money and it was far worse for people in the early 1960s than it is today.
My main comment was that people who say stop all benefit cuts at all costs even if the person openly doesn’t want to work will not win over the general public but will harden their attitude against us. We have to at least be seen making an effort however futile it is.

Your are missing a couple of crucial points, there can never be full employment under a Capitalist system. Capitalism itself needs unemployment in order to function. Someone must be unemployed. All politicians know this but dare not say it. Also, considering the reasons why we exist today in this modern society, living in towns and cities as we do, is all the result of mass social engineering stretching back centuries, and of which we are all victims. You may not be aware but we are all the subjects of a gigantic Alchemical experiment being conducted by The Powers That Be. Did anyone ask you if you wanted to be a part of this? Were any of us given a choice in the matter? No, of course not, because it is all done in secret and continues to be denied. This country became wealthy not only via the exploitation of Colonialism, but upon the backs of previous generations of the Working Class who fought in wars for this country and worked all their lives doing the most arduous of jobs. Now the Industrial Revolution is over, which is not our fault, we have no industry and few jobs, so the State now owes us a living. We were moved from the rural life into urbanization, over time, and beginning with the Inclosures, when the Church and Aristocracy (ie. The Establishment) stole all the Common Land. This is how the English became a nation of Landless Peasants.

rob
your perception that sanctions, has any bearing on how the general public see the benefit entitled is wrong, the dole was much more in equivalent terms in those days, even student grants were very high, equivalent of a labourers wages. people back then expected grants and other benefits to provide a reasonable standard of living..the only reason that the values have been cut to the bone, is that more people claim them, and mass unemployment is a permanent feature of the current era..the current regime of brutal sanctions has not changed perceptions of those on unemployment/disability benefits 1 iota, the negative perception remains, it is a result of the mass media and govt spin..imho the jcp, is of no value, people are just as likely to find work without it…

Hi Overburdenddonkey
Benefits were improved by labour but people on the social security of the 50s and 60s were far worse off.
Let’s take away the rhetoric and answer one question.
If someone doesn’t want to work should they receive full benefits just be signing once a fortnight until they reach retirement age and then receive a pension?

rob.
sorry i cannot leave out the rhetoric, is is all part of my expression, the true reasons for sanctions needs to be considered..
i believe in free will choice…personally, i love work…most people do, when it is something that rings their bells, i got a lot of satisfaction from sweeping the floor or making tea..rubbing down, painting, etc etc..i believe everyone wants to work..sanctions do not help, punishment does more harm than good, in fact it does not good at all.
if someone does not want to work, it is their loss, they miss out on so much in life.
i believe that all people want to work..

I agree, I’ve never met one that doesn’t. Humans like all animals naturally want to ‘do things’ hunt, explore, and especially in the case of humans ‘make things’. It’s our desire to do things in better, easier, faster that’s led to the oversupply of labour and production beyond what we need to survive.

another fine mess
…now you’ve got to the crux of the issue…we’ve over done it, now’s the time for a rethink, on what we have done to get ourselves in this quandary, become a luddite..now i have spent my life fixing machines, i love doing it…there are so many other ways to do things..i love perma culture..but our fertile lands have gone, stolen or destroyed…so how do we now become smallholders, hunter gathering en mass is over…we must start moving towards smallholding “tinkers bubble brook”..they had a hell of a struggle in the beginning with planners et al..but it seems eventually they got through… http://www.diggersanddreamers.org.uk/index.php?one=pnv&two=det&sel=tinkers

Rob
“If someone doesn’t want to work should they receive full benefits just be signing once a fortnight until they reach retirement age and then receive a pension?”

Yes, while there’s a ression and a massive over-supply of labour, they should be thanked for willing to survive on so little – at least for now. In some areas of the country even official figures often show there’s 30 to 50 unemployed PER vacancy.
Why should they be used to hassle employers by adding to the 1,200 applications for a single vacancy, and depressing everyones pay.

It’s always being said that benefits now (even now!) are more generous than they were in the past.

All I know is that I was very briefly unemployed in the late 1960s: I went onto the dole and was given £4-10-0 pw. Fortunately I was off the dole within a week or two, but that sum would have continued if I’d needed it. [Male, healthy, no dependents.]

By the most conservative estimates, £4.50 of domestic buying power then translates into £140 now. Is the JSA more than £140 now? I must have missed that…

Admittedly the economy was comparatively healthy (in a way we can only dream of now), but it was massively smaller than it is now… the difference I remember it was that the unemployed and disabled weren’t demonised as they are now.

Rob it is not a case of if someone doesn’t want to work but is there work there for everybody anyway. Those that say they don’t want to work are probably depressed after trying for so many fake vacancies and getting knock backs, so again you are missing the point that others have stated THERE ARE NOT JOBS FOR EVERYONE.

One man has links to every death that happens due to the welfare reforms……

BILL GUNNYEON,”THE ANGEL OF DEATH”…….

The modern day equivalent of the dreaded doctor Josef Mengele, who performed terrible experiments on behalf of his Nazi paymasters, upon the inmates of Auschwitz concentration camp…………
He might not utilise the scalpel to do his evil bidding, but he is in the senior position of Chief Medical Officer of the DWP.

Each and every twisted, evil, inhuman act perpetrated against a claimant has his blessing.

Human life comes secondary to his agenda, laid out by the insurance industry.
Private health insurance is a mega bucks industry that needs a few corrupt figures to manipulate the system to enable a swift transition onto British shores.

The trail of dead bodies is the price worth paying. Ever noticed how many times the DWP have been asked, “How many have died under your regimes?”
They give out answers that are a vain attempt to distance themselves from the full horrors of their heinous , twisted acts.

Every death is well known to the department, three of the staff update me regularly on the pressure they endure when another sad headline hits the news.

Treble the body count of our brave heroes lost in Afghanistan since 2001………

I know a guy who has three kids and hasn’t worked for many years and is very happy receiving the benefits he does. He is a genuinely good father to his kids even though he plays the system. So some people do exist that don’t want to work and even though it is a fact that there are not enough jobs to go around we still have to be seen making the effort.
We all sign a jobseekers agreement stating what the minimum level of activity we have to achieve every week is and that is a contract.
If we do what we have to then our benefits are not stopped.
The real problems with the benefits are the bedroom tax which really is making it hard for single people with an extra bedroom and the cap on housing benefit that is going to cause great hardship to people or force them to move away from family and friends.
If we continue to defend the ones who don’t want to work and openly say so then the real victims of the housing benefit cap and bedroom tax will be ignored. When people go online to find out what is happening to victims of the cuts and find loads of people saying that people who don’t want to work should be allowed to live in peace on full benefits then those decent people will just ignore the plight of the people who really need our support and help. They will just think we are a load of scroungers and the next election we can look forward to a country wanting more cuts to benefits.
Stating that we don’t have enough jobs for everyone which is a fact doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be at least applying for the jobs that do come up and looking for vacancies online or via newspapers and recording it on our jobsearch.

rob
a sanctions regime has been in place for some time now and considerably stepped up, the guy you describe, would have been sanctioned already under this scheme…
sanctions do more harm than good, and they are used indiscriminately to punish people…there should be no sanctions!

Rob.
“I know a guy who has three kids and hasn’t worked for many years and is very happy receiving the benefits he does. He is a genuinely good father to his kids even though he plays the system.”

Are you going to look after his kids for 40 hours a week while he goes to work, or are you going to pay tax to fund his childcare while he works. Do you want him competing for jobs that you’re applying for keeping wages at NMW or even less, simply by calling them training or apprentice positions.

A near miss today after “doing all reasonable to look for work” for the past year-and-6-weeks –

Payment delayed (by 2 days) due to notes on system which say “arrived late” – this was 3 minutes late into building; with a further 2 minutes spent waiting/being sent to signing on area – so I did arrive 5 minutes late. Notes apparently also said “Failed to sign” – which wasn’t the case.

This is signing on/sanction attempt during school holidays & with a ‘new to me’ advisor who looks (always has/will do) like a lizard (raptor) – somehow dead behind the eyes. No eye-contact given however – no mention (to me, at the time) about the ‘lateness’ – or about the (?) ‘failure to sign’.

He either hates women or children or perhaps people in general – & evidently is extremely ‘good’ at his job/going for promotion?

You could always Appeal, and perhaps have some fun with that as it wastes them time in dealing with it. Say you were late because you occupy Time/Space, not Space/Time, and that really Time is but a concept, that it is not linear but is curved, as Einstein proved, and that the thing that bends it is Perception.

My first reaction (after relief) was to feel like wanting to ask for clarification about the ‘did not sign’/how exactly things went post appointment – as no indication was given it was just left as a ‘surprise’. Didn’t think there is anything to appeal though – (that ‘just’ a delay would be grounds for an appeal) & also he’ll know that I’ve questioned his actions & he scares me, frankly? Would not like to meet him down a dark alley – or anywhere else – if there was an option not to.

Did I ought to cite Jim Morrison, William Blake or both of them to be on the safe side? Is time really a relative concept?

obd, I’m so desperate to avoid being late that I was 40 mins early (no, really) and had been wandering about (as you do). Had narrowly avoided having my bag dipped into/almost empty purse taken – in an unrelated twist just beforehand, & was so fairly impressed with myself for realising in time/managing to bodyswerve – mainly through pure chance. Perhaps it was pride coming before a fall …
Admittedly, I’ve not (yet) ever synchronised my phone’s time with JCP time [note to self “synchronise watches before undertaking further missions”].

Just lately, it does seems that more and more wheelchair-users are being ‘invited’ to attend, at this JCP, & they regularly have to wait a while in the reception area, while 3 or 4 JCP staff look nonplussed and debate what to ‘do’ with them/how best to ‘facilitate’ them – who they’re seeing/how to assist them to access floors above. This time, there just one person ahead of me – a woman with 2 small children in a very large pushchair – (the children were in the pushchair). Their (relatively) ‘non-standard access needs had led to complex-sounding conversations about logistics too. Unfortunately (for them), they did all 3 eventually manage to be transported up a floor. Even the few minutes longer wait to be okayed through the hallowed entrance area didn’t seem as though it would be bound to cause major problems for me – but there was always that possibility. I’ve long had feelings of deep distrust/wariness about Raptorman though – even before having had the dubious pleasure of meeting him/becoming an ‘almost’ in his little black book of successful sanctions.

Is Time really a relative concept? Yes, and so is Reality itself! I’ve had plenty of fun over the years pointing out to New Deal advisers that the desk they’re sitting at doesn’t exist. It’s just a pile of vibrating atoms, and only appears solid because we are vibrating at the same frequency. I’ve even told them about my O.B.E.s and Astral Travel (which began at the age of 9). The truth is that we are able to manifest our own Reality, and that’s what they don’t want us to know. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve found exactly what I was needing lying on the pavement or on a grass verge outside my house, for example. The thing that prevents this occurrence is FEAR, that’s why they try keep us in fear to control us. FEAR NOT sayeth The Lord! (and btw, I’ve listed my ‘Hobbies & Interests’ on my CV as Occultism, Spiritual Philosophy, Mysticism, and The Paranormal, amongst other things!) 😀

@Shirleynott. I feel for you. Some of those bastards are cruel and sadistic in their manner and attitude.Next time you see him give him a right old stare ( as in glare) !!! He will get the picture, the reprobate that he is!!

Please observe this freedom of information request that shows that the DWP are hellbent on sending the disabled on non paid workfare, benefits only………..
What i find distasteful is they say the pilot is voluntary but go to say that a HCPs decision cannot be overruled by your GP. (SEE SECTION 9).
As always they have seen fit, not to answer the questions posed but enter into completely different territory.
These questions were posed on the “what do they know” website.

You asked some general questions and some questions specific to the proposed 18-24 months
prognosis pilots, the Freedom of Information Officer has attributed the responses to the pilots
namely:

1/
Will appellants waiting to go to tribunal because of grade c reports by inept HCP’s, be
mandated to attend?

2/
Can a doctor, nurse or physio employed in conjunction with the DWP, enforce a course
of action or taking of medicines, against the wishes of the claimant, the claimants own GP, or the
claimants specialist advisors?

3/
Who will be ultimately responsible if the course of action results in the death of a
claimant?

4/
Will the claimant be expected to sign a declaration that they agree to any course of
action that is thrust upon them in an effort to seek work?

5/
Will the declaration be a legal requirement that transfers the onus of responsibility to the
claimant in the event of a fatal accident or severe consequence of the actions of the exercise?

6/
Can home visits be requested by a doctor? I stress doctor because it has come to light
that a HCP or PHYSIO is not qualified to write a sick report.

7/
What enhanced support could be given by a jobcentre worker?

8/
Is the jobcentre worker fully trained in disability analysis, treatment and effects?

9/
By virtue of the fact that you have chosen to include, “they will not replace a persons GP”
casts much doubt on the inabilities of the health team who will carry out the procedures. Will the
claimants own GP have the authority to deny any procedures that are prescribed?

10/
Are work programme providers au fait with the needs of the disabled and the extent of
their dexterity and mental ability in the workforce?

11/
Has an impact assessment been done on the effects of this 2 year pilot scheme?

12/
Will the pilot areas be places of high unemployment or places with a high rate of jobs that
disabled would be able to undertake?

13/
Would any placements for a disabled person in a workplace, attract less money than the
benefit they have been afforded due to their disability?

14/ Finally, if the claimant was to suffer in any way whilst in employment, would they be
removed from further trials with no sanctions attached?

Background: The aim of the Pilot is to assess whether a focus on the health of Employment
and Support Allowance (ESA) claimants delivered by mandatory engagement with Healthcare
Professionals or increased Jobcentre resource or the Work Programme is more or less effective

In response to your questions:

1.
Claimants in the pilot areas with a new 18-24 month prognosis will be mandated to the
pilot. If the claimant is waiting for the outcome of an appeal they will remain on the pilot until their
prognosis changes.

2.
No, claimants are mandated to attend interviews with a Healthcare Professional (HCP).
Participation in any activities suggested by the HCP is voluntary.

3.
The Freedom of Information Act is about supplying recorded information held by a public
authority. It is not an appropriate route for general questions about death of claimants and DWP
cannot create information in an attempt to answer your request.

4 & 5. Participation in any activity is voluntary.

6.
There is provision in the Medical Services contract that home visits can be arranged if the
claimant’s circumstances merit this. This would be done with the full agreement of the claimant
and would only be required in exceptional circumstances.

7.
Claimants will benefit from a significant increase in adviser time (around six times current
levels) to help provide more effective employment and health related support. The increased
support should help to address the claimant’s needs, provide signposting to other supportive
organisations and source suitable work-related activity. The frequency and length of contacts will
be flexible.

8.
All Jobcentre Advisers involved in the pilot will be fully trained and will receive any
additional employment- focused training required.

9.
If the HCP was unsure of any aspect of the claimant’s treatment the claimant would be
referred back to their own GP. Claimants’ GPs will not have the authority to deny any
procedures recommended in the 18-24 months prognosis pilots.

10. Work
Programme providers have the flexibility to design an innovative and personalised
approach to help all participants into work. Whilst participating on the Work Programme, it is the
provider’s primary goal to improve participant’s employability and tailor support based on their
needs. Some people will need more support than others and if a participant volunteers that they
have physical or mental health issues, the provider will develop a plan to help them to achieve
their specific job goals.

If the prime provider can not help a participant directly, they engage with local specialist
organisations and work with a broad range of subcontractors to deliver the tailored support that
can help them into work. This may include organisations that are part of the voluntary and
community sector. The range of services delivered by these organisations is very diverse and
covers both mental health and physical health conditions.

11.
Impact analysis has taken place. All DWP projects must consider equality to meet legal
requirements and embed this into appropriate products as part of the proposed pilot’s lifecycles.
Equality legislation requires DWP to consider equality as part of their decision making process.

12.
The pilot areas are based on geographical locations to ensure that the number of
potential eligible claimants is sufficient to conduct a valid evaluation of the pilots. This also
ensures that the pilot results can be fairly evaluated and will not be affected by other pilots being
conducted in those areas.

13.
Work placement opportunities for participants on the Work Programme are not paid
employment. Placement opportunities, as well as having a training element, are intended to
foster a work habit, whilst boosting confidence and creating work opportunities for individuals.

14.
The claimant would not be in employment whilst taking part in the pilot. They would leave
the pilot if they found work. They would also leave the pilot if they were moved to the Support
Group (following a Work Capability Assessment), where no sanctions are applied.

If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number above.

condemn party cannot create
any jobs so they massage the
jobless figures…a claimant is no
longer on the jobless figures
when they are on the work program,
sanctioned,on workfare,or doing
voluntary work.
so the condemn party can say look..
the jobless figures are down.. we
created jobs!! massaging the figures
has been going on for years..maggie
thatcher trying to get jobless onto
sickness benefit etc..
costa coffee in nottingham advertised
for a position recently and over
1,700 applyed for the vacancy..this
sums up the total lack of jobs.
what i find really tragic is that the
uk is the 7th richest country on the
planet so there is more than enough
for everybody..
instead we got austerity..scapegoat
and starve the poor and disabled
and kick them out of their homes
amid all this media whitewash.

People being taken off the unemployed figures continued from Mrs Thatchers days right through the labour party years with New Deal and still goes on today. If people do exactly what they sign up to via their jobseekers agreement they should not be in any danger of receiving a sanction.
I fully appreciate how unfairly shirleynott was treated to have her benefit delayed because of three minutes and some jobcentre staff do appear to be deliberately looking to cause inconvenience to people as I have experienced bullying myself recently.
One fine Mess,
The guy I mentioned who has three kids is prepared to do whatever he is asked to do to keep his full entitlement to benefit even if it means turning up at jobcentres to do jobsearch. He has been unemployed for ages and doesn’t think any employer would take him on anyway.
The sanctions will only be reversed if public opinion influences those in government. It only takes one person on the television news to spout something like “benefits should be given to anyone even if they don’t want to work” and that should ensure the vast majority of people in Britain making sure that benefits are cut even more.
We all know that ujm is full of old jobs that are not available anymore but at least it gives us jobs to make our minimum needed as stated in our jobseekers agreement.

Rob, thanks but (for me) the 36 hour wait is now a blessed relief compared to the (fortunately failed) attempt/wish to remove 3 weeks JSA (£314) for not being within 5 minutes of time of the appointment – (on a single occasion) . Which would have been something of a disaster.

In my limited understanding, the note(s) had been attached/written on and left there (for ‘actioning’) – despite there not being a ‘failure to sign’ – & sent across to the payment processing people (in a kind of ‘mini doubt’). The point being that knowing this (could) happen at any time is in itself the opposite of “help” & it makes a mockery of the (one-sided) attempt to say that we’re taking part in a form of contract in any real sense – whereby 3 weeks of money could be instantly whipped away. Both of my ‘transgressions’ (real & wished-for) were discussed with me by the helpline person, who apologised for the delay but suggested it was because of these ‘issues’. However, they already had been recognised as ‘not exactly a doubt'(?) as payment was going to be processed – so nothing there to challenge really – without stirring up a whole can of worms – but enough to cause distress/some near panic. This is a system that’s dodgy from top to bottom – with extreme emphasis on ‘us’ keeping to ‘our side of the bargain’ – while ‘they’ fulfil their side of the bargain (trying to keep their managers/IDS happy/lower the unemployment figures by lowering the unemployed).

It won’t be the first time someone has spent most of a day checking their bank balance/phoning their bank/DWP/re-thinking their survival plan – when they could instead have been trying to find gainful employment/doing almost anything more constructive to further their prospects. The hoops they’re making us jump through and the near-constant stress of trying to not lose money for a ‘transgression’ doesn’t cover the ‘not wanting to look for work’ aspect of what’s supposedly meant to be (though I will never ‘get’ this) about motivating people to never cease in their search for (any, more & better) work. So in fact, the tiny minority who sanctions were supposedly set up ‘for’ in the first place are almost an irrelevance anyway – as the net has now been cast so much wider. Their ‘schemes’ and ‘conditions’ and ‘checking up’ on us are likely to be causing numerous people to be distracted away from the actual task in hand (it can’t be just me), one way or another (even when their intention to concentrate on looking for work would be the most logical thing in the world/the desire to escape this evil system etc.). It’s clear that not all of us will ever be able to do enough (all of the time) under this malevolent regime of terms & conditions – which is exactly how it’s been set up to work. Some people are more disciplined/thicker skinned than others (in the concentration camps there were always some people who managed to escape the notice of the guards through a mixture of guile/intelligence/determination/strength/skills/ and others who didn’t – through a combination of bad luck/fewer entrepreneurial or marketable skills/there was an ‘r’ in the month… This is just the same ideology.

That Rob is a troll or a dwp plant etiher way he is trying to set the unemployed against one another, i.e. the father that is happy not to work (even though childminding is work) is supposedly taking money from those that are suffering the bedroom tax, what a croc of shit. This government will rob anyone and everyone and even if they stopped the father who is supposedly playing the system from claiming, any money saved will not be given to those having to pay the bedroom tax.
He is playing good cop bad cop sweetening his adherence to nasty, vindictive conditionality which he is happy to go along with, with his concern for certain sections of society, mainly the tax paying public that he is trying to ingratiate himself with. It’s time he condemned the politicians and business who are playing the economic system.
The public have no right to judge the unemployed, if they are concerned about unemployment then they should be getting onto the politicians or job centre staff to get off their arses and provide real job vacancies not fake jobs or statistic fiddling of the amount of unemployed.

fawkes…
i for one am not going to devote any more of my time to him, and his pedantic nonsense…no to conditionality, for all the reasons i have expressed..tis the bigger picture for me, we are being sucked dry, to feed the rich,so that their status quo can remain, whilst we are plunged into deeper and deeper poverty, a price deemed that we have to pay so as they do not suffer, i want them to give up their lavish life styles, and work for the common good.

My guess is that he’s DWP plant, what with his constant repetition that “sanctions have a part to play” & “there are those who don’t want to work” Just as well there’s some who don’t want to work, it would be even harder for those who do to find a job,LOL!

It might be a moot point, but UKIP are probably closer to being nazis… There is a difference. Nazis are about blood, the nation etc, whilst fascists are about a corporatism which has little to do with nation, or indeed blood. I’m guessing that the difference was blurred by mainstream socialists who weren’t happy with the ‘socialist’ bit of national socialism, of which ‘nazi’ is but an abbreviation for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist German Workers Party. And to be fair to the socialists who aren’t very happy with the socialist bit, the nazis were quite ‘socialist’, if you happened to be a German, and a worker… But not so good if you were anything else.

However, I would say that Cameron and the Tories aren’t really nazis, but they are pretty close to being fascists, though of course they would deny it. (But are gradually selling off everything to big corporations).

Take a second look at Paul Veerheoven’s movies, (the first RoboCop movie and films like Starship Troopers) and you’ll get what I’m on about, though Starship Troopers does kind of blur things a bit, (maybe intentionally?) by putting the people of a facist state in uniforms that have more than a passing resemblance of Third Reich military uniforms… but probably less so than those uniforms once worn by the armed forces of the German Democratic Republic, but then, that state was often referred to as being ‘red fascist’. Confusing? Yes, I’m confused too.

Basically the only thing that’s important to remember I guess is that all ruling regimes, systems of government are going to screw us at some point no matter how benign, friendly or on our side they may initially appear. Trouble is, so many people seem to think that the only way of dealing with this kind of situation is more of the same – like going out and voting… d’uh, for whom, and for what?

I was just trying to a make a point that happens to be important. The point is this, the only way to reverse these sanctions is to get the general public on side. In reality, UKIP have no chance of winning the next election. Labour won’t reverse many of the benefit cuts and people wanting benefits with no conditionality won’t get the voters on board. Without the general public on our side the people who are suffering won’t stand a chance of getting the cuts reversed.
If anyone believes that every single one of the million plus of unemployed really want to work then they are living in a dream world.

And if anyone thinks that most of the millions of people that are in work really want to work then they are also living in a dream world, let’s be honest. Everyone I know who has a job hates it, and many are seeking less hours or earlier retirement. I’ve hated every job I’ve ever had. To some people, myself included, being unemployed represents the lesser of two evils; the misery of poverty being preferable to the misery of work. But the Government don’t like that attitude, it’s YOU WILL WORK OR ELSE, yet no one will employ me.

LP
I’ve known many people who love their work, and I can think of a few things I’d do for nothing – if someone pays my living expenses.
Just because someone hates their job doesn’t mean they don’t want to work, not EVERY person is suited to EVERY job.

Exactly. If I had a job that suited me, that was of interest to me, that I found personally rewarding in some way, that was fulfilling, that enabled me to use what personal skills I have, that stimulated my mind, AND it paid a decent enough wage, then ok I’d be happy to do it. But I’m not interested in traveling several miles by public transport to another town to pack training shoes into boxes all day every day in exchange for Min. Wage, as my Work Coach wanted me to do.

l p..
yes, it is in everyone’s nature to freely gather food , warm clothing and build satisfying shelter..but somehow we have “forgotten”, that direct connection with natural order, in favour of for example packing shoes, in a far away place, to provide money to pay for what used to be freely available, we have someone else grow our food for us on an industrial scale with minimum use of labour, so that we are “free” to fill the energy taxing havens, of places of work…we must become more socialist not less..i have no faith in politicians, to deliver socialism, perhaps the greens..

afm, not everyone is suited to every job – but young people are asked to pin a label on themselves before they leave school might stick with them, they might miss out on exploring other areas they could be suited to/enjoy. At the secondary school where I was (several moons ago), the Deputy Head always engaged in some careers advice/have a chat with everyone at some stage in their last year of school. His advice didn’t vary – he said (to everyone) that ‘Business Studies’ would be their best bet …

It’s a lot to do with how ‘work’ is defined/categorised, too (and who gets to define what’s work/worthwhile/worth paying someone for) –
Eg. Dylan Thomas (of ‘Under Milkwood’ ‘And Death Shall Have No Dominion’; Do Not Go Gentle Into that Good Night’ fame) is well known (today) and more than a few who consider his output indicates (poetic) genius. In his lifetime though, he was thought to be alcoholic (he did like to socialise, but was also living undiagnosed with diabetes for many years – so alcohol would have affected him more quickly/dramatically and it often appeared he’d been drinking far longer than he in fact had – to excess. Much later it came to light that there were additional factors in his often seeming to be a young soak). DT would (if he were alive today) fail every DWP test/fall at every hurdle (probably). He spent a lot of time crafting poems/writing in a shed in his garden – and quite bit of time – his own time – down the pub (where he contributed massively by some accounts) to village life …
He was paid for some of his writings but wouldn’t have always had a regular income – a bit like Ted Hughes, only not quite – (& under UC he would be asked to look for ‘more and better work’). People started wanting to hear him & he was recognised for his abilities during his lifetime – he went to the US. to give readings & died there from his health complications). He’d not have got far with signing on when money was short under today’s rules (?) Would probably also be labelled as someone who ‘doesn’t want to work’ … (on paper).

Quite a few of those lucky enough to gain financially from their ‘day job’s opt to work (say) 3/4 days of the week when they’re able to afford it, maybe spending the other 1/3 (working) days on more creative, preferred activities or with their family or a mixture of both (technically: ‘a good work/life balance’). It seems that in addition to all the ‘hard-working’, dedicated workaholics out there (who’ve identified what they’re best at and found a way to do it – or just managed to get a job they can do which is continuous/not at risk), [there could be] hordes of others who would jump at the chance to work (say) a 4 day week with a 3 day weekend (if work were plentiful/they could earn enough to support themselves & their families). And some who’d rather spend their time thinking (philosophers), worshipping (monks/nuns/ashram-dwellers), living communally (in communes/on kibbutz); bringing up their family (‘stay at home’ mums/dads). So it’s not as simple as ‘laziness’ vs.’Hard-workingness’.

@Landless Peasant. I have a friend, that does not want to work because his spine is crippling away, has emphysema and other physical issues. However he is fighting like a good un at having his ‘rightful benefits’ being taken away. Having said that, prior to becoming ill he never wanted to work anyway. Why you may ask? His answer: ‘I never asked to be born’. Nuff said.

The vast majority want to work, and even those who seem to not to want to work would probably come on side if there was work that valued them as people and paid them a decent amount for doing it. Increasingly the idea of a universal social dividend paid to all citizens, regardless of whether they worked or not makes more and more sense.

In the meantime I think that the NMW should go up to at least £10 an hour, (and I know there will be some workers on the NMW who insanely will think that’s too much!) which if expanded to a 37 hour week over 52 weeks a year doesn’t add up to a scandalously high income, but mere £19,500, hardly a king’s ransome, and not really anything like enough if you aspire to buy a house, (or even rent privately in some (most?) places, or support a family, but a decent enough basic income if you’re single.

You’re right about the idiot public’s belief that there are huge numbers of people out there who don’t want to work, but what of it was pointed out to them that most of them do jobs that have absolutely no social benefit whatsoever, and that they are just the dupes that work in call centres, or Tescos and the like working for companies whose sole reason for existence is to make as much money out of us as they can. That is the fascist future we have in store, where if we want anything we buy it from the corporate state, run by Tesco who not only have bought up all the corner shops, but who have also bought all the politicians, and if you don’t work for Tescos you don’t work at all.

This crazy scenario isn’t so far fetched, is it? Perhaps it’s time to maybe consider if anarchism has something rational to offer, I think it has. Most of us are anarchists, but probably are unaware of it. Think about it and discuss widely. Another poser; when you go out and about on your daily routine, have a look about, how much work is there that needs to be done? Stuff like pavements that need mending, graffiti that needs cleaning up, (I mean the illiterate tagging, not the wonderful works of art created by the public spirited to brighten up a community eyesore at no cost to the taxpayer), street that need proper cleaning, and all the myriad other jobs that need doing. Then ask yourself why are there so many unemployed? And why are the big corporations being allowed to get away with not paying the £120 billion a year that they collectively owe? Pretty simple questions, but good ones to ask your local politician – but don’t expect an honest answer, and fall off your chair if you get one, but it’s my guess that you’d have already given yourself a far bette, a far more accurate an answer a long time before you give them a chance to give their response, which will inevitably ignore the big elephant in the room.

You’re absolutely right about all the work that needs doing out there, I’ve seen it myself, plenty of wooden fences that have never seen a lick of paint, crumbling dry-stone walls in need of repair, fly-tipping that needs clearing, etc etc. but they expect us to do that shit for nothing, well bugger that, so long as the Government pursues the futile goal of economic growth I demand a wage!

The general public are either the unemployed’s family or friends and do not need to be got on side of the unemployed, they are already on their side.
The selfish, tory voting public on the other hand can go rot, we want neither their condemnation nor approval to receive benefits we are by right entitled to, something they and their ilk are out to dismantle by hook or by CROOK.
I don’t think people are convinced by your argument on here.

big business riping us of every single day, back hand deals costing us millions makeing them millions got to be in the rite old boys funny handshake club, and people with no income get a sanction (go away and die) for being a few seconds late ,, that sounds fair, good luck to the bloke who doesnt want a job, get what u can out of them.. thats what they do to us being shafting us for years,,

I’ve been sanctioned and I apply for loads of jobs (and get no response), I was sanctioned because I questioned my MWA’s health and safety as I got injured on the job, now I have no money, i don’t understand how this will help me to get a job, thinking about just ending it all frankly, and now I hear I have to report to AforE under threat of yet more sanctions…F&ck this country, I want out!

ad’s…they seem to find any excuse, coz they’ll know you have little money, these sanctions are disproportionate, and very harsh, even £5 loss is significant..appeal for sure, and go to welfare rights…try ipwich unemployed action..link at side of this page and http://www.edinburghagainstpoverty.org.uk/

Hello Ad’s these psycos are making it as hard as possible for us all, don’t give them the satisfaction of letting them win. Appeal, put in for a hardship payment, it’s crap but better than nothing if you can get it. As bad as things seem they can turn around, something good may be round the corner. I wish you well mate.

For some reason, I decided to google the previous names of the DWP, and now I fully understand why the government changed it. I mean, right now, the worst you can come up with is ‘Department of Wankers and Pricks, whereas before it was the ‘Department of Sadistic Sociopaths’, and before that you had the ‘Department of Hellbent Sadistic Scum’.

I keep studying the answers that the Dwp give in responses to freedom of information requests.
The question of “How many have died?”, has been raised over forty times but the department keeps trying to evade giving out the answer which is readily available to them.

Excuses like, we have some of the information, but it will cost more than £600, therefore we cannot give you the information, is used frequently……..

Every death is a human life, someones son or daughter, yet the DWP regard it as a sport, justified by the instructions of deranged government ministers and their advisors, sat firmly in the grip of their paymasters.

Every question they refuse to answer pushes them further into a corner, in fact the people who raise the questions are much more educated that the persons answering.

The fightback is astounding me! People are starting to realise what a shower of shit the DWP really are……….

The world wants educating on the way we are being treated.

Britain is corrupt from top to bottom, wherever there is an issue, someone is pulling strings from behind the scenes………….

Lobbying is like an out of control poison that permeates every decision in parliament.
Backhanders, bribes and favouritism go virtually unchecked as the spread reaches epidemic proportions.
Police are being utilised to try and quell the opposition to fracking in a small village.
One little confrontation could spark rioting in any of the big cities, personally i hope it does………..

You can control the media but you can’t control, or suppress public opinion…………..

Soon they will vent their anger, and woe betide anything or anyone who gets in their way…………………

amazeing isnt it just how things have turned out,lol i mean you couldnt make it up . do thease pathetic cockless balless spunkless chinless spineless gutless manlynessless tory mp,s they need them and there familiars need to be beaten smashed stamped on theasepathetic eaton boys fucking weaklings cowards bullys thathide behind power,behind the police its makes me so angry they have know idea how and whats its like to live at the sharp end of life you have to work so hard just to stay sane and healthy you have to have eyes in the back of your head becouse people at the bottom of society[so called]become survivalists it becomes dog eat dog people become monsters just to survive i,m a product of the 70s care system ive been homeless and moveing moveing moveing since 1984 29 years so i know wot im talking about.ive had to become very hard and very tuff dehumanised to a certain extent..but ive never been cruel andnever harmed the weak im not become bitter or addicted and i still hope and belive my ship will come in one day .people who are born with everything have know idea and how could they about people like me and our lives they have no concept.whatshappening now is condeming a whole generation of children to a life of rootless ness of insicurety and social deprivation and all the things that go with that they whitness drugs booze poverty abuse the stronge will tuffen up harden up and god willing will go on to have some kind of productive worthwhile lives .the weak one one will be eaten alive by life no chance……all this vilifiying of thepoor by the wealthy and comfortable [we cant afford sky tv]is just so misplaced if they could see the hard reality of it ..they may just find there humanity and think again

i wanted to add i got talking to this guy recently a posh public school boy but you know wot he wasnt a cunt he was young inexpierienced idealistic but the thing is he has come from a very priverliged background and all the things that go with that and im not just talking about the mechanical aspectsie the food,the shelter,but also the social aspects the good start in life ,the security,the connections,the social mobility..he was and is a sweet ladbut he had no concept of how you could not be born without thease things he didnt understand how people could not live like him and theres the rub we are still victims of this goddamm class system in this country this tory government just has no concept of the harsh reality of life at the bottom of the social economic pile .the uk is the first country in the world to become deindustrilized we have no manufactureing anymore apart from wot cottage industrys there are no jobs out there and wot jobs there are is like a fight to the death just to get them and dont go there thinking about a nice full time job with pention and perks those days are gone there are no jobs for life that belonges to the past now so when you have the tories and esp the vile IDS thing….implimenting sanctions removeing the saftey net from under people stopping there benifits they just have no idea of the destruction there setting up ..i,d like to think that like that posh boy i met that they just didnt understand.

damo
well you summed it all up for me, they don’t consider that their world could not exist without the downtrodden, or won’t.
so they put the message out, that we could all be privileged..we’re even taught to see life as a privileged, even when it is clearly isn’t for millions…we could all be comfortable, instead the few have lavish lifestyles..if wealth was redistributed, so every one got the basics of life they would no longer be wealthy or perhaps they do know this and will hang onto their power over natural resources for grim death, for fear of being swallowed up in their own minds..they do feel guilt, but they dump their guilt onto us and blame the downtrodden…all remnants of socialism are being rubbed out, as if it has never existed, to protect the personal wealth of the few…

hello overburdeneddonkey like i was saying thisposh lad could not understand i just seemed inconcievable to him that peopleslives were not like his and he wasnt a cunt he genuinely didnt understand we are products of our upbringings he wasnt arrogant but he was supreamly self confident and had one million percent self belief in himself and thats his birthright that is what is programmed into him biologicaly and mentaly he dosent see that he has been born with a full hand of cards to play he will succed in life becouse he,s been programed to..i remember when i was 17 and leaveing mellor house in e sussex where id been liveing mellor house was run by mr and mrs mills they were very kind and loveing but also very strict and i can remember haveing a conversation with him about life ,he in not so many words told me who out of us that were live there who was gonna make it and who wasnt..and he was right some of the kids in there didnt make it they were consumed by the wolves and they died they just were to damaged and to fragile for this world now im trying to or hopeing that those at thetop show some hummanity towards those vulnerable people at the bottom becouse wots happening now with the sanction the cuts ect is setting up the most vulnerable children for alife of hardship and falier and those children will have to be very bright very lucky and very determined not to give up and go down the wronge paths in life whitch will end in there destruction . i feel sometimes like the sammuel l jackson character jules in pulp fiction ..i,m tryin real hard ringo..and i,m tryin to hold onto my humanity surly thease tories bankers new labour mps could see wot there doing and the destruction its causeing maybe they would think again becouse they must realise that if people are pushed and pushed and pushed ie wots happening people god willing will start to fight back surly they must reolise that if there is a mass fightback ..they will be strung up..its inevitable just look at the bloody endings for all dictatorships. dxxx

Hi Damo. Well said, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. Most of our politicians are indeed out of touch with the reality of so many people’s lives, and cannot begin to conceive how difficult it is for poor people. I’m sure that there are a few, like IDS who do know the realities, but who choose to either ignore that, or see an opportunity to discipline and punish.

Hey, thanks for your support, I am going to appeal and I have put in a form for hardship payments, was also thinking about trying to get a sick note from the doc’s for my depression (made worse by sanctions), might be able to apply for sickness benefits then? might not work but worth a shot, again cheers for your support!

Whoever deserved a bonus for theft and incompetence?
Every thing the much hated DWP ever does, is a grand fuck-up.

One reason for stealing your money, hits you right between the eyes, the inability of a poor, homeless or disabled to fight back……….

Surely the people of this once great land, and the people abroad who log on to this site, can recognise the “scumbag doctrines” of the coalition governments bully boys.

What surprises me even more is the staff of the DWP who treat people as dross and go home as though nothing is happening.
Instead of hiding and protesting that you are only following orders, you should be shouting from the treetops!!
“Wake up for Christs sake”, you are carrying out their orders!

Strangely i am not shocked by what is happening. I could spot it in its infancy.

What pisses me off more than anything is the mantra they introduced, “we are all in it together”. Surely you never believed this?

We asked you to fill in a questionnaire that we sent to you on the 06/06/2013. We needed the information to decide if we are paying the right amount of DLA.
Because you have not sent back the questionnaire we are not sure if we are paying you the right amount of DLA.
We have decided that from the 24/07/2013 we will stop paying your DLA.
You cannot appeal against this decision.
If you want us to look again at the amount of benefit we can pay you, you must send us the information we have asked you for by 29/08/2013 we may stop your benefit.

Please note, my circumstances have never changed but they are harrassing me to fill in a questionnaire so that they can say, they believe they have.
In doing this they can then send me for an early PIP ATOS examination where my benefits will be reduced even further.
Esther Mcvey said in parliament that existing DLA holders will not face PIP tests till october 2015. They are trying to circumvent the statement by sending out questionnaires.

Observe the two dates they have given to me;
from the 24/07/2013, they will stop paying me, yet i have until the 29/08/2013 to send them the information or they may stop it…………..

the think that funny is most of if not nearly all our mp,s have never done a days work in there lives there career politions with the exeption of prescott and a few others they have come from priveliged backgroundsand have wanted for nothing its like an ego game for them ,im a man of the people,lol exept they are in deadly positions of power and its the most emtionaly pin headed ie ian dungcan smith who is holding all this power over people he is completely out of touch dangerously so ….there are no jobs..no real ones and believe me there is an unspoken age discrimination going on in this country anyone over 40 and your ready for burning as it seems employers are like a bunch of hannibal lecters wanting the young flesh only …fffffffffffffttt….lol people of my grandfathers generation fought and died in the 1st and 2nd world wars for this country the nhs and the welfare state was a thankyou and reward for all the sacrifices that not only the british people but all the people of the commonwealth made…even thatcher didnt dare touch the nhs she know better.this is the revenge of the public school boys ie our government its funny even thatcher would not tolerate the etonians,lolso why are we as a nation allowing our liveto be dictated to and fucked up by a bunch of weak snivling guttless sneering public school…..boys if you can even call them that…why

IDS: I think he is emotionally illiterate. (And not articulate at all – he can’t manage to string a meaningful sentence together, whatever education/background he’s benefited from). IDS/Esther McVey are a match made in hell.

your right shirleynott ids is a emotional iliterate not just him most torys they cannot concieve that you dont have a min of 20 grand in the bank ..ready ..most people on benefitsincludeing myself havent even got 20 quid and if you have no family ..andyou get sanctioned..YOURFUCKED…the food banks will only give you food dry basic food 3 times so your gonna go hungry ,not to metion if you have a power key what happens when you run out ..your landlord will evict you if you cant pay the rent…its absolutly crazy whats happening the tories ids mcvey they have no idea..people do desperate things in desperate times..it becomes survival at all costs and when that happens violence and crime follow

All true damo, & it’s not rocket science, but as you’ve said already, they’re not interested in our actual experiences – just in the version they’ve agreed to agree amongst themselves of how (all our) lives ‘should’ run. If things don’t work out, it’s because we’ve made wrong decisions somewhere along the way, or not tried (worked) hard enough – & it can only be due to that.

There’s an unbridgeable gap between (routinely) having £20,000 in the bank or, more often than just occasionally it being £0.20, £0.02 or £20.00. Not a difference measurable just in £’s/pence though. it’s exactly the other things that come with it (security/confidence). People were mainly used to (until recent times) finding and being able to keep regular work, so they could hold their heads up, and walk tall – believing that they were as good as the next person, even without having a spare £20,000 lying around – because (& I hate this phrase, but going to use it here) “they were doing the right thing” (by their own lights, rather than because the government of the day compelled them to under threat of destitution – or not directly). This is part of what we are in danger of losing/being able to pass on & that’s why sites like this one are so important.

As long as these snivelling public school boys have the police, private security or the armed forces at their fingertips they say and do what they like.
Where or who would they be without those that protect their evil deeds, because that is what welfare reform and bedroom tax is and goes with their insults of these groups via the daily mail etc.

i would personaly like to beat the shit out of them all..the country is divideid esp here in the south its exsteam to extream from superwealth billionares to people lying in the gutter from the beautifull people [so called] to the liveing dead..its unbeleavable my street is a classic example a scabby street in shepards bush were the shitty houses sell for a million shitty little terreced houses,it being infested by sneering vile arrogant super wealthy hoorays the fulham/chelsea overspill the other half is the poorest people ive seen for a long time there the ones who,s time is up .Social clensing is happening in london for real to run a small sudio flat were i live costs a min oF £1300 PER MOUNTH FOR A GLORIFIED BEDSIT,lol that snake in the grass boris lied..surly something gotta give,we cant go on like this this is become a master ,self society from extream to extream we need to put our heads together and come up with an alternate future becouse were fucked otherwise…any suggestions

It’s a good point regarding the power the upper classes have. Rich kids go straight to sandhurst and guaranteed to become officers whatever their intelligence, look at Prince Harry, one O level and a captain while a working class kid with A levels would be lucky to end up as a sergeant. I remember last year the tories suggesting that some people could join the police force in the future at Inspector level with no previous police experience. It’s a guarantee that if that happens the sons and daughters of wealthy families will take those positions.
It will be interesting to see how much coverage the press give to the days of action and if any members of parliament dare to be seen siding with the common people. It would be nice to see a few members of parliament standing up against the benefit cuts but it isn’t easy to think of anyone who would at the moment.

you know wot rob i,m an opptermist but this country and this government is bringing everyone down into dispare a nastyness and malase were all at each others throats were all fighting and squabling over crumbs while they dine on the finest foods…if people are young ,healthy[god willing] and have a real world skill or skills…go ..get out of here…run ..this countrys toxic..ive had freinds in the last 10 years leave for australia,canada,new zeland..theve gone with virtualy nothing exept some dreams its not been easy but its starting to come good they had to put there backs into it a work there areses of …people reading this if you can ..go..and if you cant god bless dxxx

Damo, the way the press and television news covers things it seems to be portraying the idea that people are generally happy and the government are doing well with labour losing support. The reality might be totally different and hopefully it is otherwise we might well be doomed. As we know the pension age is now 66 and one day in the future will be 70 although the poor die a lot younger than the rich. I heard last week that in one part of the UK the average life expectancy was only 62 so many won’t even be able to enjoy a pension. I intend to do my best to make it to pension age but it won’t be easy.

We in Africa have been viewing your benefits with an element of mixed feelings for decades. We have non, you see, if we don’t have money we starve and live on the streets. It’s always been like that. We are responsible for ourselves and have never had a government giving us hand-outs. I say mixed feelings because on the one hand it’s envy. To have a house and food for nothing but presumptuous expectation would be grand but on the other hand it builds a more grateful, resilient &
self-sufficient people.

The blog is true my mum and us 6 siblings are the victims our rent is £350 pw now we get £100 the landord told us to move but noone give us house because of benefit n the council wont either i and my 2 bros are in middle of gcse and my 2 other sibling are doing Alevel my mom cant work cuz she cant use her properly but she could be an intreperter but she cant speak English we are stuck we canter move 3 hours away our education will be ruintt it already is cause we canter eve offord milk everyday plz help i am 14 n she scared of my mums health cuz of this she has tried to sucide but we saved her she looks really old now cause of oppiments everyday

For immediate help, in the morning (first make sure a teacher you trust knows), then try asking for help from church, mosque, synagogue, Sikh or Hindu temple – it doesn’t need to be your own religion.

ANYONE ELSE ON THIS SITE WHO CAN HELP / SUGGEST?

Dread; when I was 14, we went through the same. The worst was watching my Mum age, just the way you’re saying. For what’s it’s worth, it was bloody for a while, we thought we were done for, but we did get there in the end.

It sounds like you’ve got a lot of courage. Never give up and (from my own experience…) never be ashamed.

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