Physical intimacy has been a struggle for us for many reasons. One of the reasons was his porn use. He had been rejecting me frequently, and I had taken his viewing of naked women personally. I had responded to my feelings of betrayal by shutting down and not being authentic during our physical intimacy. Instead of being a way to be close, it had become a performance and a competition for me.

He for the most part stopped watching regularly in November 2011, after a ten-month intensive period, with a few times in between now and then where I learned he'd watched again. I felt guilty for him stopping, after a long period of anger. Started to feel guilty because I'd heard "guys will be guys" and that I was invading his privacy and his sexuality to complain about it. Also knowing that there's a certain type of woman he likes, and I'm not that particular type.

Today I lost my battle with my self-esteem. I thought that asking him to watch porn, signaling it was OK, would be relieving myself of guilt and also pushing him to go back to the types of girls he really likes. He could go watch them, we could stop having sex again for the most part, and I could detach again, worry about other things. Not to mention, if we watched it together even once, I could really see what he liked so much about the girls, all the things he has and hasn't told me.

So I asked him in the most friendly way possible if he wanted to watch porn together. He didn't answer at first. I asked again later and he said no. I asked if he didn't like porn, and his answer was that we've been so active lately that he doesn't want to lessen it (our frequency) by watching porn.

So he chose us. For the first time in our time together, when given a direct choice between me and other girls, he chose me. Other times it's been that he chooses them - whether for conversation or quick flirting or outright EA or, in porn's case, watching instead of sex with me - and then "comes back" to me later - he's never outright refused to even go there before, with either real or porn girls.

This should be a good thing, because I should be able to see this as a healthy thing. For him especially. He's growing. Perhaps porn wouldn't have been an issue, if he hadn't been struggling with intimacy. But that he's feeling that comfortable with our intimate life, to me, is a sign he's taken a huge step forward. Maybe this is healthy for him.

It also shows that there's a huge amount of work I have left to do. Why did I feel so deeply upset suddenly when he said that? Because now I'm afraid. I'll have to deal with my self-esteem now. I'll have to be healthy now. I want to be, I will try to make the healthy choice, which is to let him love me and to try to let go of these negative thoughts and attitudes. And to forgive him, forgive a lot. To accept who he is NOW. I'd just gotten to acceptance about the person he WAS, and now he's different. It's just very scary. I'm afraid it's going to go away. And I'd just gotten used to accepting that he'd had all his best, most exciting experiences sexually with people who weren't me, and knowing that it was really the lifestyle he liked so much about us, the experience of having a family and a stable place to live. Everything but the bedroom (still might be). Now he's giving us a chance and I don't want to squander it, don't want to do the unhealthy thing. So how do I deal with these feelings?

Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 4032 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California

Jrazz♀ 31349Member # 31349

Posted: 1:27 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

(((Silver)))

I think that this is a twofold process, one that I personally need to work on currently.

The first step is releasing the hubs of culpability in regards to our feelings. Of course there's the A aftermath from time to time, but as you indicated here, Mr. Silver passed the "test."

Like you, when Crazz surprises me by doing or saying exactly what I needed him to, I'm suddenly at a loss. I still feel insecure, and I realize that he's earned my trust in some way and I'm still not allowing myself to let go.

There comes a point where we need to draw the line between historic vulnerability and current. I say just take this event as money in the bank that he wants to prioritize being intimate with you, and the next time you want to approach the subject just take a deep breath, and remember that this is a new era in which he puts you first. You are worth it.

(Edited to correct iPhone typos from last night. )

[This message edited by Jrazz at 11:15 AM, September 12th (Thursday)]

"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." - Buddha

Posts: 21808 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California

OnAnIsland♀ 34319Member # 34319

Posted: 2:03 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

That is progress, but it is hard to believe in it. And to put the walls down enough to be vulnerable, vulnerability is so hard. I just watched a ted talk by Brene Brown about vulnerability. Check it out. I haven't read her work yet, but plan to.

Maybe exploring yourself more and your reactions toward this. And then some baby steps of vulnerability. You don't need to forgive all at nce, you don't need to dive into the deep end, just take some small steps of vulnerability. And see how it feels. and see how he reacts. And keep watching your partner for more actions that demonstrate his growth and evolution. Eventually you should be able to be more vulnerable with him, and to move past this, unless it was a dealbreaker for you. But then you will know that you tried. And you will have come far in healing yourself.

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou

Posts: 1482 | Registered: Dec 2011

blakesteele♂ 38044Member # 38044

Posted: 2:45 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

There comes a point where we need to draw the line between historic vulnerability and current. I say just take this event as money in the bank that he wants to prioritize being intimate with you, and the next time you want to approach the subject just take a deep breath, and remember that this is a new era in which he puts you first. You are worth it.

WOW....well stated Jrazz!!!

That is progress, but it is hard to believe in it. And to put the walls down enough to be vulnerable, vulnerability is so hard. I just watched a ted talk by Brene Brown about vulnerability. Check it out. I haven't read her work yet, but plan to.

Like this too OnAnIsland.

Now...for my thought.

I, too, fell for that stupid thought that this is just what guys do. Lots of reasons behind my actions....porn at an early age, Dad had it, friends all had it, Dad divorced and disappeared right when I was 12...real intimacy was never modeled or explained to me. Trust me, as I examine this part of me I hit many of the check marks as to why porn was a part of my life.

Not making any excuses for my poor choices...just admitting that, just like your husband, they are a real part of my past.

And I, like your husband, have no place for these past actions in my future...regardless of the state of my marriage.

This is a new to me feeling, it is a new to my wife as well. We are both in uncharted territory when it comes to intimacy.

I ordered Berne book on vulnerability....I see a direct and tight bond between vulnerability and true intimacy.

Perhaps this is what has you concerned....true intimacy is a real achievement for your both...and that, like us, is something you have never had before?

That's it. It's vulnerability that scares me. Vulnerability means someone can - and does - hurt you. They might keep trying, but if you're closed off, then it doesn't hurt as much even when they try to.

And you're right, Blakesteele - neither of us have had true intimacy before. Imagined it, sure, but not actually had it. I'm fearful it will be invasive instead of comforting.

There comes a point where we need to draw the line between historic vulnerability and current. I say just take this event as money in the bank that he wants to prioritize being intimate with you, and the next time you want to approach the subject just take a deep breath, and remember that this is a new era in which he puts you first. You are worth it.

Thank you Jrazz. This sounds like the first step. Instead of going through the dialogue, I need to let the thoughts go or push them out and focus on being present. Little at a time, the thoughts won't be so invasive. And I like what you said about "money in the bank" - in quieter moments, I can reflect on the positive things that have happened. Let that become my reality instead.

Maybe exploring yourself more and your reactions toward this. And then some baby steps of vulnerability. You don't need to forgive all at nce, you don't need to dive into the deep end, just take some small steps of vulnerability. And see how it feels. and see how he reacts. And keep watching your partner for more actions that demonstrate his growth and evolution. Eventually you should be able to be more vulnerable with him, and to move past this, unless it was a dealbreaker for you. But then you will know that you tried. And you will have come far in healing yourself.

This is perfect, OnAnIsland. Definitely need to explore my reactions to this. It feels safer having an emotional distance. Also hard to think I'm worth it. I know I am on my own, I feel good about myself. But with him? Harder to. Almost feels like I should be telling him he's made a mistake. But maybe he really hasn't. it's nice to know we can take it slow. Slow seems safer right now. Baby steps.

Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 4032 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California

crazyblindsided♀ 35215Member # 35215

Posted: 6:58 PM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

(((silverhopes)))

I just want to say real beauty is on the inside sweetie, but I understand.

My WH has a lot of pornstar clients and in person they are really nothing to look at. They have like a mega glamour artist who cakes on the makeup. NONE of them look remotely to what they look like on video. I kid you not.

Don't compare yourself to them. You WH wants to be with you. To be intimate with you. I'm sorry you are feeling this way.

BS/FWS (me):41 Madhatter
WS/BS:44 Serial Cheater
Together 19 years, Married 14
DD(11) DS(8)
DDay(s) Too many to count
Final Dday 7/11/14 Same OW2