On a side note, St. Gregory Palamas quotes from Planudes translation of St. Augustine's hated De Trinitate repeatedly and refers to him as "wise and apostolic." This is usually left out of the treatment of people like Fr. Azkoul (or even Fr. Romanides). Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled programming...

So what objections to the Orthodox have with this work by Saint Augustine - or Saint Augustine in general?

Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

Please get into the habit of doing searches before you ask questions that have been answered time and time again. Nobody likes repeating themselves.

Well, I don't see anything newer than about three months or so and nothing that deals specifically with this work or with the comment made about Palamas' seemingly favorable outlook on Saint Augustine.

Besides that, this is a discussion forum. If we could only have one thread on a subject, this entire forum would only have a few dozen threads at best. How many do we have on Palamas and the energy/essence debate; on the Filioque; on Original Sin; on the Immaculate Conception; on Purgatory; on the Papacy; etc., etc., etc.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 11:34:48 AM by Athanasios »

Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

Well, I don't see anything newer than about three months or so and nothing that deals specifically with this work or with the comment made about Palamas' seemingly favorable outlook on Saint Augustine.

In other words, you made a search?

Quote

Besides that, this is a discussion forum. If we could only have one thread on a subject, this entire forum would only have a few dozen threads at best. How many do we have on Palamas and the energy/essence debate; on the Filioque; on Original Sin; on the Immaculate Conception; on Purgatory; on the Papacy; etc., etc., etc.

This 'entire site' does not exist for RC/Orthodox debate. Perhaps those issues are foremost for you, but minor to us.

Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

This 'entire site' does not exist for RC/Orthodox debate. Perhaps those issues are foremost for you, but minor to us.

The Orthodox-Catholic Discussion forum certainly does.

Truly, this is a matter of terminology that hasn't been fully standardized. Some refer to each section as a forum, some the whole site as the forum and each section a sub-forum. Others have their own system. My own way of speaking uses the first - each section as a forum. I am not certain, though, as to how the administrators here at OC.net designate the various sections of this site.

Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

Truly, this is a matter of terminology that hasn't been fully standardized. Some refer to each section as a forum, some the whole site as the forum and each section a sub-forum. Others have their own system. My own way of speaking uses the first - each section as a forum. I am not certain, though, as to how the administrators here at OC.net designate the various sections of this site.

We refer to OCnet as a whole as a "site", the discussion/debate part of it as a "forum", and each individual board as a "section". Hence Fr Chris' title as "Forum Administrator" and my title, as well as that of my colleagues, as "Section Moderator".

Anyway, just because a topic doesn't have any recent entries does not mean it's closed. Any topic that has not been locked can be resurrected, and indeed resurrecting an old thread helps everyone to see what others have said in the past about a subject. Don't be afraid of a thread just because it's old. Just keep in mind that some of the members may no longer post here. If in doubt, click the poster's name, and in their profile, you'll see the date and time they last accessed the site.

Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

We refer to OCnet as a whole as a "site", the discussion/debate part of it as a "forum", and each individual board as a "section". Hence Fr Chris' title as "Forum Administrator" and my title, as well as that of my colleagues, as "Section Moderator".

This little tidbit about the hierarchial structure of OC.net would make a great information sticky - especially for all those who won't venture to this thread.

Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

On a side note, St. Gregory Palamas quotes from Planudes translation of St. Augustine's hated De Trinitate repeatedly and refers to him as "wise and apostolic." This is usually left out of the treatment of people like Fr. Azkoul (or even Fr. Romanides). Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled programming...

What do the Orthodox think of their "Pillar of Orthodoxy" Saint Gregory Palamas referring to Saint Augustine as "wise and apostolic"? And also, why is Saint Augustine's De Trinitate so hated?

« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 08:27:27 PM by Athanasios »

Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

Your jabs are unnecessary in this thread, lubeltri. If you wish to actually discuss things in a charitable manner, be my guest. But more comments like this and more severe action will be taken against you. You have been warned.

In addition, in real-life Orthodoxy, I have yet to personally encounter a Priest or knowledgable member of the Church who was hostile towards Augustine. They state that some of his teachings/writings had errors, but do not demonise him. My Priest in particular in particular enjoys much of his writings. Netodoxy is another story.

-- Friul

Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Your jabs are unnecessary in this thread, lubeltri. If you wish to actually discuss things in a charitable manner, be my guest. But more comments like this and more severe action will be taken against you. You have been warned.

In addition, in real-life Orthodoxy, I have yet to personally encounter a Priest or knowledgable member of the Church who was hostile towards Augustine. They state that some of his teachings/writings had errors, but do not demonise him. My Priest in particular in particular enjoys much of his writings. Netodoxy is another story.

-- Friul

I thought we were discussing EO views toward Augustine's theology, not his personal sanctity or spirituality.

Frankly discussing common EO views about Augustine's theology is not a jab. It is very mixed and does skew negative, and not just on the Net. I wouldn't have said so if it wasn't.

I take exception to this warning, considering the real jabs that I've seen on this section of late.

Thanks for the link. It looks like a good book. When I whittle down my current stack of books which I have in fact just enlarged (including De Trinitate), I'll consider this book in my next round of book buying.

Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

I thought we were discussing EO views toward Augustine's theology, not his personal sanctity or spirituality.

Frankly discussing common EO views about Augustine's theology is not a jab. It is very mixed and does skew negative, and not just on the Net. I wouldn't have said so if it wasn't.

I take exception to this warning, considering the real jabs that I've seen on this section of late.

Augustine is fine. Jerome....well, let's just say I'm less than enthralled by him, although my priest is a staunch member of the St. Jerome fan club.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Anyone who does not accept him as a Saint and a Father is not Orthodox.

Not to belabour the point, but the letter of Saint Justinian the Emperor is included in the acts of the fifth Ecumenical Council and says:

"We further declare that we hold fast to the decrees of the four Councils, and in every way follow the holy fathers Athanasius, Hilary, Basil, Gregory the Theologian, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose, Theophilus, John of Constantinople, Cyril, Augustine, Proclus, Leo and their writings on the true faith."

Furthermore, the sentence of the Council Fathers themselves says:

"Moreover several letters of Augustine, of most religious memory, who shone forth resplendent among the African bishops, were read, showing that it was quite right that heretics should be anathematized after death."

If Saint Augustine is a complete heretic it is odd that an Ecumenical Council is citing him as a basis for its decision and the emperor who convened it mentions him among saintly teachers of the Church in his letter to it.

Augustine is honourable for this willingness to admit his mistakes and submit to the judgement of the Church, and for his efforts to combat Donatism, Manichaeanism and Pelagianism.

So what objections to the Orthodox have with this work by Saint Augustine - or Saint Augustine in general?

My opinion is that he presents problems regarding the filioque. The filioque is known to have played a critical role in the schism of 1054. Augustine clearly taught it centuries before it was added to the creed, which places his theology on probation after the 800s! IMOP!

I think that if his philosophy would of stayed clear from the filioque, he may have been more embraced. The west and east spoke different languages, so even though the filioque was up and running in the early western church father history, since it was in latin, it did not translate well into greek, which was what the eastern church spoke.

Hope that helps!

Logged

THIS USER HAS REGISTERED UNDER THE OTHER NAMES OF "truth" AND "jackjohn" WHICH HAVE BEEN BANNED.