Apple executives discuss future of Mac on platform's 30th anniversary

To commemorate the 30th anniversary of Apple's Mac, MacWorld interviewed Apple executives Phil Schiller, Craig Federighi and Bud Tribble, who shared their thoughts on what the Mac means to the company today, and how it will evolve in the future.

In the article, published on Thursday to coincide with Mac's 30th birthday, Apple SVP of Worldwide Marketing Phil Schiller said the stalwart keyboard-and-mouse computing system plays an integral role in a very diverse ecosystem.

"It's not an either/or," Schiller said. "It's a world where you're going to have a phone, a tablet, a computer, you don't have to choose. And so what's more important is how you seamlessly move between them all ... it's not like this is a laptop person and that's a tablet person. It doesn't have to be that way."

With the popularity the iPhone and iPad driving incredible sales numbers, some speculate that Apple may put Mac on the back burner to concentrate on iOS. According to Vice President of Software Technology Bud Tribble, iOS devices are actually driving Mac development.

"The thing that has turbocharged the Mac has been the advent of the iPhone and the iPad," Tribble said, adding that Apple's decision to combine OS X and iOS hardware and software teams has given Mac new life. "That cross-pollination of ideas, the fact that the [Mac and iOS] teams are the same team, has propelled the Mac further than I had hoped for."

On that note, the execs said a melding of OS X and iOS is not in the playbook. Rumors of a combination platform emerged when Apple promoted lead Mac engineer Craig Federighi to SVP of Software Engineering. Under the new title, Federighi has purview of a much wider area that includes both of Apple's operating systems.

Instead of merging the two platforms, however, Apple is apparently keeping them on separate paths moving forward. Unlike Microsoft's latest Windows efforts, Apple believes keyboard-and-mouse and multitouch are better served by distinct systems and tools.

"The reason OS X has a different interface than iOS isn't because one came after the other or because this one's old and this one's new," Federighi said. Pointing to a MacBook Air, he said, "This device has been honed over 30 years to be optimal" for keyboards and mice.

Schiller and Federighi both believe the current solution is the best of both worlds, and simply "slap[ping] a touchscreen on a piece of hardware" is not the solution. Convergence is not a goal for Apple, but delivering the best possible experience for each category is.

"We have a common sense of aesthetics, a common set of principles that drive us, and we're building the best products we can for their unique purposes," Federighi said. "So you'll see them be the same where that makes sense, and you'll see them be different in those things that are critical to their essence."

The future of Mac appears to be secure, according to the executives, and future iterations will likely see dramatic changes in appearance and operability. Schiller said that in some ways, the success of Apple's iOS devices has left room for the company to push the boundaries of Mac.

In the end, on the 30th anniversary of Mac, Apple is upbeat as to what the future holds.

"Every company that made computers when we started the Mac, they're all gone," said Schiller. "We're the only one left. We're still doing it, and growing faster than the rest of the PC industry because of that willingness to reinvent ourselves over and over."

Instead, it’s because using a mouse and keyboard just isn’t the same as tapping with your finger. “It’s obvious and easy enough to slap a touchscreen on a piece of hardware, but is that a good experience?” Federighi said. “We believe, no.”

HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. Why is it so difficult for some Apple users to comprehend this? Federighi is freaking awesome.

HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. Why is it so difficult for some Apple users to comprehend this? Federighi is freaking awesome.

He's just saying because he is paid by Apple. The convergence of OS X and iOS is inevitable. Just like the convergence of all appliances. In a few years, Sammy will introduce a fridge-oven-sink hybrid appliance. /s

Why is it so difficult for some people to comprehend that opinions may vary? You and I may agree with Fonzie, but not why not leave others to their own opinion?

Opinions are fine but experience is a ruthless teacher. Anybody that has used touch screens on other desktop systems knows that they leave much to be desired. Operating system convergence, if you want to call it that, will come via AI and other advance technologies. Putting a touch interface on the Mac is looking towards the past not the future.

``With the popularity the iPhone and iPad driving incredible sales numbers, some speculate that Apple may put Mac on the back burner to concentrate on iOS. According to Vice President of Software Technology Bud Tribble, iOS devices are actually driving Mac development.''

``With the popularity of the iPhone and iPad driving incredible sales numbers, some speculate that Apple may put Mac on the back burner to concentrate on iOS. According to Vice President of Software Technology Bud Tribble, iOS devices are actually driving Mac development.

Because there are opinions and then there’s being just plain wrong. It’s still an “opinion”, it’s just wrong.

You mean like the "it must be named iPhone 6" opinion or the "iPad Mini will never happen and even if it does it will suck" opinion?

I think you said everyone else was "plain wrong" those times as well.

It's plain wrong until Apple turns around and does it. What they say here is exactly what they said all those other times: current designs require too many negative trade offs and we won't make them. Netbook -> 11" Macbook Air and 7" Tablet -> 8" iPad Mini are the two obvious examples of where other manufacturers made too many tradeoffs to meet a specific need (in both cases size) and Apple waited until they could make a small laptop or tablet that didn't suck.

Just because Microsoft has failed to make a good hybrid does not mean that it is not possible any more than Microsofts failure to make a good tablet operating system meant that usable tablets were not possible. Even then you could see the potential, it was simply the execution that was poor except perhaps in apps like OneNote (which I liked).

A significant problem with hybrids today is they make many physical tradeoffs in order to be a hybrid ending up as both a thick tablet and a thicker than normal (and often oddly balanced) ultrabook. Knowing Apple they want an elegant yet robust solution that is not yet mechanically feasible from a mass production and cost perspective.

It always seems someone has to respond about THEIR own opinion. Screw that. Discuss the first idea first. This wild-eyed committee approach of opinions is always so dull and in the end produces no consensus only lack of sensus. Someone else said Federighi is getting PAID to say what he says. He's getting PAID, true, but why can't he believe what he says AND... why can't we believe him or Schiller?

"We have a common sense of aesthetics, a common set of principles that drive us, and we're building the best products we can for their unique purposes," Federighi said. "So you'll see them be the same where that makes sense, and you'll see them be different in those things that are critical to their essence."

I love this discussion, but this quote is why I am a fan of this company. As of right now I am perfectly happy with how apple is handling both OS X and iOS.

This will be a fantastic year.

"Being in power is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

What most folks don't grasp is that Steve would never authorize the merging of both platforms and eliminating the keyboard and mouse.

Why? This I totally agree with, 100%. This I don’t. I’ve been saying that tablets and desktops are the future since 2008. I’ve been saying that Apple’s desktop line will go multitouch since probably right around then, too. That doesn’t mean that Apple desktops will get iOS. That would ruin them. Ruin them. iOS is as fitting to the desktop as OS X is to the tablet.

We know what happens when you put a cursor-based OS on a touchscreen device (Windows tablets). We also know what happens when you make a desktop touchscreen device that isn’t designed around the desktop experience (Surface, the real one, not the rebranding).

When I look at the history of Apple, I see Steve was willing to change when it made sense. Let’s even say ‘only willing’. He took one look at a GUI-based OS and said, “This is the future. We’re doing this,” and he ignored the Apple ][ line for the rest of its existence. He took one look at the tablet OS Apple made roundabout 2005 and said, “We can make a phone out of this!”

iOS isn’t suitable to replace keyboard and mouse. Not yet, nor will it ever be. Even if Apple decides to drop the iOS name and the OS XI theory and call the two softwares by the same name, they won’t be. Rather, shouldn’t be. I do say won’t because Federighi’s statements make me confident that he won’t make the utter crap that some Apple users think they want. At its heart, to be the best mobile OS it can be, iOS has to remain fundamentally iOS. To be the best desktop OS it has to be, OS XI has to remain a desktop-class OS. I think OS XI will be more application-oriented than OS X is. It’s all about coming back around that circle, you know? Apple talks about it themselves. iOS’ Springboard looks a little like the Desktop from 1984: image behind, bar above, icons upon. And so OS XI’s baseline interface will look like iOS’ Springboard. But you can’t have it work without the flexibility that OS X has right now.

But I’m worthless. You actually worked with the guy! I’m really curious where I’m wrong with the above; you’d know better than probably any of us (except dasanman69, who is really Forstall in disguise). Steve wasn’t afraid to abandon blinkenlights for the keyboard and screen. He wasn’t afraid to abandon the keyboard and screen for keyboard+mouse+GUI. Why do you think he wouldn’t make a desktop multitouch OS–not iOS–if it fit the use case of a desktop computer?

What most folks don't grasp is that Steve would never authorize the merging of both platforms and eliminating the keyboard and mouse.

Each platform is optimized for it's purpose(s) and having the idea of a swiss army knife of computing is not feasible, nor is it productive.

Rubbish!

All-in-one-convergence is the way to go.

In the future, I look forward to being woken by the alarm on on my Samsung Galaxy phone, having it transform into my HTC toothbrush and LG deodorant so I may adhere to the rules of personal hygiene, then leave my apartment and have it change into my Microsoft car (which uses video cameras to navigate instead of windows in order to reduce the chance of crashes that may cause me to emit blue screams of death) to get me to work.

Anyone who can't see this seriously needs Google glasses.

Steve Job's vision was so forward thinking that he used to park in disabled spots before he became sick.

They can put the Mac platform on the back burner as long as it's on a burner, if they take it off, it will be very depressing and I will lose complete interest in Apple. I would hate to have to do that.

You mean like the "it must be named iPhone 6" opinion or the "iPad Mini will never happen and even if it does it will suck" opinion?

No, but you already know why this is different and are just trolling.

It's plain wrong until Apple turns around and does it. What they say here is exactly what they said all those other times: current designs require too many negative trade offs and we won't make them. Netbook -> 11" Macbook Air and 7" Tablet -> 8" iPad Mini are the two obvious examples of where other manufacturers made too many tradeoffs to meet a specific need (in both cases size) and Apple waited until they could make a small laptop or tablet that didn't suck.

Obviously the iPhone mini is imminent. No one wants mobile data or a huge 3.5” screen.

What most folks don't grasp is that Steve would never authorize the merging of both platforms and eliminating the keyboard and mouse.

Each platform is optimized for it's purpose(s) and having the idea of a swiss army knife of computing is not feasible, nor is it productive.

An iMac with a touchscreen trackpad instead of the magic trackpad would provide for a merging of direct and indirect UI manipulation on the desktop.

A MBA with a touchscreen keyboard with haptic feedback instead of a physical keyboard would provide for both a horizontal touchscreen surface and a traditional keyboard and touchpad surface on an as needed basis.

And, as horrid as it may seem, a stylus provides the hover, pressure sensitivity and precision required for fine grain manipulation (like when drawing or writing).

It isn't different at all and in fact exactly the same. You repeatedly belittle people who's opinion differs from you in a childish fashion. You have an opinion. Fine. That doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. In fact your track record is as abysmal as most analysts.

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Obviously the iPhone mini is imminent. No one wants mobile data or a huge 3.5” screen.

The iPhone Mini concept is a much smaller phone that retains key features like 4G, camera, simplified apps for the smaller screen. Something the size of the iPod Nano or iPod shuffle. Is it imminent? As imminent as anything else Apple makes like an AppleTV with apps.

I'd buy a iPhone Nano scaled up from the iPod Nano to fit a usable sized phone keypad with the current Nano apps + iCal + iMessage and Mail. Maps would be nice too since I don't need a big screen if Siri is providing turn by turn instructions. All it needs to say on the screen is Turn Left in 500 Feet. The key limitations (like with a watch) is batter life and screen size. Yes it has a data plan. No it doesn't have nor need a 3.5" screen. The 2.5" screen needs to be a little wider to comfortably provide for a phone keypad but other than that it's a decent size.

HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. Why is it so difficult for some Apple users to comprehend this? Federighi is freaking awesome.

Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.

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Originally Posted by nht

An iMac with a touchscreen trackpad instead of the magic trackpad would provide for a merging of direct and indirect UI manipulation on the desktop.

A MBA with a touchscreen keyboard with haptic feedback instead of a physical keyboard would provide for both a horizontal touchscreen surface and a traditional keyboard and touchpad surface on an as needed basis.

And, as horrid as it may seem, a stylus provides the hover, pressure sensitivity and precision required for fine grain manipulation (like when drawing or writing).

I think something along these lines will be the solution. A touchscreen trackpad sounds like a step in the right direction. But it needs to be simple enough such that I am not distracted by it. The User should be able to concentrate on the screen and not the touchscreen trackpad.

I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.

Hopefully the iPad Pro....

On the topic of input accessories, the new input kits from Palette Gear sounds pretty neat for customised actions. I'm waiting for the reviews before I order it.

Well also because Steve isn't the be all and end all of wisdom, alive or not. He had a great team, and they had fierce debates. Steve is a smart guy and inspirational leader, but he alone didn't wasn't Apple.

I'm glad to hear them say that the iPad and iPhone if anything allow the Mac to be more computery not less, since the Mac no longer has to be everything to everybody. It gives me hope that the Mac won't be dumbed down but maybe the Finder and other built in apps will continue to get more pro features, and the terminal and man pages will be kept up to date etc.

But for those who don't like the look of iOS 7, I have to say the comments about all the products looking like they're from the same company means OS X is due for a similar facelift probably this year (as if there was any doubt).

Now can the clueless people who keep talking nonsense about making OS X touch, or those clueless people who keep talking about merging iOS and OS X please STFU?, because Apple clearly doesn't believe in your failed and pathetic vision of the future. Go buy a damn Surface, your ideas are ridiculous. The whole idea is idiotic and doomed.

It's amazing how some people are so dense that they can not grasp that simple concept. It just won't work.

Mmmmmmmm… no. See, we didn’t know then about that. We know now about this. No one paying any attention whatsoever could think it was the same. It’s the difference between knowledge and ignorance. We were ignorant then. We are not ignorant here.

No. This interview provides no greater insight to Apple's roadmap than Steve Jobs comment regarding 7" tablets. You were just as adamant that Steve's comments then provide that the Mini would never happen.

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NOPE. NOT AT ALL. Which, again, you would know if you were paying any attention whatsoever. The iPhone mini has no Wi-Fi, no Safari, no Mail, and a 2.5” screen. It is a smaller, cheaper version than the too large, too expensive, too complex iPhone.

Amazing that you know the exact specs of a product that has not (yet) been released. Analyst and forum member expectations of an iPhone Nano were all over the map. Apple's past moves, however, would indicate that they don't do cheaper but they like to do smaller. The difference between an iPhone Nano and a feature phone would likely be like the difference between a MBA and a netbook. So possibly no Safari because the screen is too small but Mail, Message and WiFi likely in. Certainly it would have video, music and camera.

It is safe to state that Apple would not likely do a cheap feature phone to simply capture volume. What is also safe to say is that if Apple determined that they could do a feature phone correctly, like they determined that they could do the netbook correctly, and create a whole new product segment (like they did with ultra books) they would do so.

What YOU do is state that anyone who believes in the latter is wrong because you believe in the first statement. The fact is that the two positions are not mutually exclusive.

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You’d make a spectacular analyst. No wonder you don’t understand what we’re talking about.

Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.

If you look at touchscreen input research they never are vertical but are horizontal work surfaces. The problem is you need to be able to generate this work surface in a cost effective manner that is as thin as a desk blotter or it will alway be some odd workaround like top down projection (3M), bottom projection (MS Surface...the old tabletop version) or a HDTV embedded into a desk with a touch surface on top.

Folks that prattle on about how your arms would get tired from lifting it all day are creating a straw man.

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I think something along these lines will be the solution. A touchscreen trackpad sounds like a step in the right direction. But it needs to be simple enough such that I am not distracted by it. The User should be able to concentrate on the screen and not the touchscreen trackpad.

If MS were to implement this I'm sure it would be full of animated tiles distracting you all the time. I would hazard a guess that Apple would make it a much more refined experience even at rev 1.0.

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I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.

My guess is they really hate that extra thickness currently required for a digitizer and don't want to add a stylus natively.

Regarding touchscreen iMac displays, I can straight away see how it isn't very intuitive. I charge my iPhone on a dock so it is vertical. When I try to reply to a message or take a note when it is charging, it is very cumbersome. Working with a vertical touchscreen is ok for random selections of buttons, but not if you want to actually type or work for extended periods of time.

I think something along these lines will be the solution. A touchscreen trackpad sounds like a step in the right direction. But it needs to be simple enough such that I am not distracted by it. The User should be able to concentrate on the screen and not the touchscreen trackpad.

I do wish the iPad does get a Wacom Digitizer in the future for the very reason you mention in the end. I'm not sure if it isn't in their design philosophy to include a stylus or whether they are waiting to do it right before they release it.

Hopefully the iPad Pro....

On the topic of input accessories, the new input kits from Palette Gear sounds pretty neat for customised actions. I'm waiting for the reviews before I order it.

To my view anything a mouse can do a stylus on a Wacom tablet can do better*. And take up FAR less desk real-estate doing it. OTOH choice is good so leaving that to outside manufacturers such as Wacom is okay by me.

Instead, it’s because using a mouse and keyboard just isn’t the same as tapping with your finger. “It’s obvious and easy enough to slap a touchscreen on a piece of hardware, but is that a good experience?” Federighi said. “We believe, no.”

HOLY CRAP WHAT A CONCEPT. Why is it so difficult for some Apple users to comprehend this? Federighi is freaking awesome.

This might conflict with the idea of tablets replacing laptops you mentioned in the past though:

"The iPad will replace laptops entirely. Then the desktop will see a huge resurgence."

Unless the iPad can replace the function of the laptop, it can't replace the laptop. People need mobile workstations.

I want to be able to interact with OS X using touch. It does need a new UI but it's not that big of a departure. It requires removing the windows, menu system and movable modal dialogs but it's not that big of a deal.

If you imagine removing the title bars from windows and have them stitched side by side with the main application window taking up almost the full size. The secondary level windows can be hidden in a split pane like a sliding doors UI. When you activate the split, it slides open and you jump between the full screen windows quickly. What it does need is a hover state so that you can activate before pressing.

The menu system could be just the Apple in the corner. When tapped or clicked, it expands to multi-level menu options radially or as horizontal blocks. This would convert the menu bar into more of a status bar like on iOS.

Exposé would still allow jumping between apps quickly.

The Finder would have to be totally redone but this is quite simple. It would convert from being an app to being a service (that could still be easily relaunched when it inevitably messes up of course). This can be a sidebar like the notification panel in OS X except always on the top layer. If you want to save a picture from a browser, you'd just drag the image (touch or mouse) over to the side and it would slide open the bar - this would still work on multiple displays as it would wait slightly for you to slow down your movement. This view has no horizontal scrolling. It's kind of a list view but shows a linear hierarchy and hovering over one of the hierarchy blocks would expand it vertically. This view is always on top and it would have an option for multiple columns so that you can set multiple views and drag between them or just compare files.

Spotlight would just be a search box at the top of each column and there would be command icons at the base to allow switching media type, all images, all movies, all music (can replace iTunes for playback) and the file view (not All My Files, it would have a hierarchy and maybe All My Files can be an option somewhere). Quicklook would be below the selected item or just have an icon to make a popup frame. Commands like new folder or drag and drop would be contextual and they can be done by holding down to bring up a command menu. Tap-hold can show the checkboxes for multiple selection and you can choose a move command which would show a confirm item at the top and then navigate to where you want and hit confirm.

This has to get rid of the handy Finder sidebar but those items would show on hovering over the top hierarchy item and this is a good way to show you which device you are on. Sometimes the sidebar loses the highlight so you can't tell if you are moving files on an external or internal drive.

The Dock would either be persistent or can be swiped in by swiping up from the bezel. You'd be able to launch apps using the app view they already have on OS X, the sidebar Finder or the Dock.

This UI would break away from using windows, would allow full filesystem access, should work equally well with a mouse or touch and would be fully multi-tasking. Instead of apps being overlapped, they sit inside their sliding doors and you just slide the panel splits open or shut. For apps like a calculator, it can waste vertical space but that's quite rare. It doesn't work so well under iOS as apps aren't typically designed for flexible layouts but it should work for a touch-enabled OS X.

I'm not entirely against their stance of not introducing touch into OS X as it works well just now and if they can't design the MBP like a slate (due to ports, weight, fans etc) then there's little point. I just like the additional functionality of iOS because of touch and would like to have it in OS X as I use OS X far more. I suspect additional touch capability will come through changes to the laptop base such as 3D sensors and larger capacitive areas, which is fine but I still want to use an OS X device like an iPad somehow.

Unless the iPad can replace the function of the laptop, it can't replace the laptop. People need mobile workstations.

Well, sure! And the iPad will grow to fit that requirement, both in capability and in size.

But the definition of mobile has shifted over the past fifteen years or so. “Mobile” today is far more iPad than it is MacBook. More carried tablet than seated laptop.

The menu system could be just the Apple in the corner. When tapped or clicked, it expands to multi-level menu options radially or as horizontal blocks. This would convert the menu bar into more of a status bar like on iOS.

Hmm. I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to erase the idea of a Menu Bar and integrate those options directly into drop downs in the application’s main UI bar itself.

What it does need is a hover state so that you can activate before pressing.

Why not just implement a swipe from the element itself? You know, swipe a direction on the item and the submenu for said item opens. Like the “delete” swipe in iOS.

The Dock would either be persistent or can be swiped in by swiping up from the bezel. You'd be able to launch apps using the app view they already have on OS X, the sidebar Finder or the Dock.

I think they might even get rid of the Dock entirely and… OH! No, what about this: Launchpad becomes the new “Dock”, meaning it operates like the Springboard in iOS but is still activated with the five-finger pinch of modern OS X with the Dock hidden at all other times. So wherever you are, doing whatever you are, five-finger pinch to get to the Launchpad where you can see all of the applications on your computer. On the Launchpad, you can drag an application down to the Dock to have it quickly accessible. So it’ll look just like it does right now, but the Dock will be a function of Launchpad rather than just still visible thereon.

Instead of apps being overlapped, they sit inside their sliding doors and you just slide the panel splits open or shut.

This reminds me of Microsoft Courier. Maybe that’s the reason I don’t think it would work that well… I’ve seen mockups of drawer-based OS’ before, but I don’t remember liking them. I’ll look some up.

For apps like a calculator…

Just permanently move Calculator, Stickies, Chess, and the like to Dashboard. Just turn the applications into widgets, removing no functionality.

I’m not entirely against their stance of not introducing touch into OS X…

I just don’t think they’ll do it half way, nor do I think they’ll leave a UX transition period. We’re in a UI transition right now, but I don’t see Apple making a computer that can be used with both a touchscreen and a mouse.