I don't know if many people here have watched all four alien films, but playing Tomb Raider: Legend reminded me of how I felt after watching the last film (excluding Alien V Predator) in that series.

First you had a hated sequel with a troubled production history and which was rushed out (Alien 3) that many thought had finally buried a successful franchise. This was followed by an eagerly awaited sequel that promised to incorporate the breathless action of the first (adored) sequel with the sci-fi horror and suspense of the original film.

However, for one reason or another, watching Alien Resurrection, while visually striking, action-packed, well acted and with stunning special effects, it seemed that the dark soul and chilling mystery of the previous three films were missing.

It looked like an Alien film, but it sure didn't feel like one. It was almost totally anonymous - another sci-fi actioner on the big screen, the rather unexceptional if serviceable product of an exceptional TV writer and a French visual stylist.

Playing Tomb Raider: Legend is akin to that experience. There is Lara Croft, there are tombs and traps, she shoots, she jumps, she performs various acrobatics, there are boss fights and there are extras like motorcycle races et al. However, at no time does it feel like a Tomb Raider game.

Other contributors have mentioned this, but it is worth repeating: where is the mystery, the scale and scope, the sense of open-ended exploration, the fear, the eeriness, the eccentricity, the challenge, and, yes, the frustration?

While waiting for Angel of Darkness, I played Prince of Persia: Sands of Time - and while I enjoyed it, I kept thinking that Tomb Raider does all this more - so much more.

While waiting for Legend, I played Two Thrones - thought that it was slicker but all the poorer for it. The most depressing thing about it being the bland and charmless settings that all looked the same.

The sad thing is, Tomb Raider, instead of striking out in a new and exciting direction, has followed the PoP path - and followed it quite literally.

Quite the most dispiriting thing on playing Legend is the linear (and don't let anyone tell you otherwise) progression in each level. You are guided, hinted, prodded and prompted down a specific path with no open-ended exploration possible.

This way, and no other.

Not only does this ensure that you will complete the game much too quickly, but that the game-playing soul of Tomb Raider's past is lost completely.

Added to this, the overwhelming abundance of annoying cut-scenes detailing an incoherent and rather intelligence-insulting story, only cuts back on the game-playing experience even further.

Don't believe me? Try the Japan level - count how long you actually play the game during this level, and how much time is given over to cut scenes.

I could go on further about the insanely easy puzzles, the ad hoc gunplay that extends game-playing time but does little else, and the ridiculous entry of the interactive cut-scenes.

Who in their right mind thought that was a challenge? Being able to press buttons as they are flashed up on the screen pre-dates Atari and was probably used in the most basic and simple computer games that came on the market in the late-1970s.

Having said all that, the game is pretty, and if it didn't trade under the Tomb Raider name then it would be an enjoyable, if unchallenging, and pitifully short experience for the casual gamer.

As it stands, it is a major, major disappointment and a huge missed opportunity.

After watching Alien Resurrection, most fans looked fondly on Alien 3 - now no longer hated, but curiously regarded as a noble failure.

After Tomb Raider Legend, I can now look back on Angel of Darkness as precisely the same type of beast.

viper456

12-04-06, 13:14

pfffffffft

Tomb of Legends

12-04-06, 13:16

I think it doesnt feel like a TR because it has infact been resirected or reborn if you like. TR1 set the feeling, TRL is making that feeling better in alot of ways, although some was lost in translation..

Tomb of Legends

12-04-06, 13:19

Im really starting to hate this forum. Im so sick of the put downs of TRL. If you dont like it throw the bloody thing in the bin and go put TR1 back on and play it the rest of your days, because if you dont like Legend chances are that your never gonna like Tomb Raider again. It changed for the better, us fans wanted a fresh start..CD did that for us. Now that we have it we hate it, you made the decision. Do you really want to play sequal after sequal of crappy games where the grid-system gets worse everytime?

If the mood stays like this here then Im staying away...

viper456

12-04-06, 13:21

Im really starting to hate this forum. Im so sick of the put downs of TRL. If you dont like it throw the bloody thing in the bin and go put TR1 back on and play it the rest of your days, because if you dont like Legend chances are that your never gonna like Tomb Raider again. It changed for the better, us fans wanted a fresh start..CD did that for us. Now that we have it we hate it, you made the decision. Do you really want to play sequal after sequal of crappy games where the grid-system gets worse everytime?

If the mood stays like this here then Im staying away...

EXACTLY ! go make your own forum to make ever bloody thread negative!

no one is forcing you to play the game, its ok to have both possitve and negative thoughts on the game but why make thread after thread totally ripping the game apart?

wgell

12-04-06, 13:24

Gooner you are not alone. I agree with what you say as do many others who have the wit to see past Lara's wardrobe.

gooner_no1

12-04-06, 13:26

Freedom of speech is one of the most important pillars in our democracy. I can express my opinion, it is your right to agree or disagree.

viper456

12-04-06, 13:33

Gooner you are not alone. I agree with what you say as do many others who have the wit to see past Lara's wardrobe.

and some cant read other thread topics.

Freedom of speech is one of the most important pillars in our democracy. I can express my opinion, it is your right to agree or disagree.

i know, but it would be nice to try and keep it all together, rather than littering the forum with thread after thread on the same topic

Radiohead

12-04-06, 13:38

I am very disappointed to say that I totally agree with gooner.

customer

12-04-06, 13:41

gooner, many of us are disappointed in this game....or rather something that is almost a game.

And for the people who are attacking the people who have this negative opinion about TRL.....grow up already. We can give our opinion about the game and then you can give your opinion about the game....not about the messenger.

We all payed for the game, so we can talk about it as much as you do.

viper456

12-04-06, 13:46

gooner, many of us are disappointed in this game....or rather something that is almost a game.

And for the people who are attacking the people who have this negative opinion about TRL.....grow up already. We can give our opinion about the game and then you can give your opinion about the game....not about the messenger.

We all payed for the game, so we can talk about it as much as you do.

read what was said reeeeeeeally carefully please

Pipolinne

12-04-06, 13:53

Though I do not agree with you,I understand what you're saying ( I'm a fan from the three last aliens,the fourth is a bit weak compared to them,IMO :D), I think Legend presented us the re-birthing of a concept. Once Toby Gard was invited and once he was Lara's creator,I think it makes sense Lara's personality being the centre of this game.

I only began playing LC recently and I confess in some levels of TRII, Lara seems so lonely on those God forsaken tombs it was very difficult to enjoy the game.

I think likeing it or not depends on what we were seraching for in TR games: personally, I don't make a point of exploring tombs,I prefer to see Lara's attitude and explore landscapes and modern places,like in Legend,so I'm quite happy.

gooner_no1

12-04-06, 13:55

It seems to me that those gamers disappointed with Legend have tried to express their criticisms in a sober, structured and considered manner - however those who seem to disagree cannot but respond in an aggressive, hectoring and, in my opinion, immature way.

Just my opinion...

therealcamelo

12-04-06, 14:02

I must say, that I don't understand those of you not liking TRL. But I have to say, that those of you saying "go to another forum and complain", are way off. What kind of reply is that? I actually find it interestering to hear some different oppinions, and not only the hardcore TR fans' who would like the game no matter what.

Though, still I find TRL very amusing and I don't regret having bought it and played it through on my PC :)

But I agree: Freedom of Speech.
I don't agree that TRL is a bad game ;) Comparing it to Alien 4: Ressurection is a shame. That film sucked alright. Not TRL.

viper456

12-04-06, 14:04

I must say, that I don't understand those of you not liking TRL. But I have to say, that those of you saying "go to another forum and complain", are way off. What kind of reply is that? I actually find it interestering to hear some different oppinions, and not only the hardcore TR fans' who would like the game no matter what.

Though, still I find TRL very amusing and I don't regret having bought it and played it through on my PC :)

But I agree: Freedom of Speech.
I don't agree that TRL is a bad game ;) Comparing it to Alien 4: Ressurection is a shame. That film sucked alright. Not TRL.

i said try and keep it all together rather than just starting a new topic that is jsut discussing the same points over and over

viper456

12-04-06, 14:05

It seems to me that those gamers disappointed with Legend have tried to express their criticisms in a sober, structured and considered manner - however those who seem to disagree cannot but respond in an aggressive, hectoring and, in my opinion, immature way.

Just my opinion...

look at how many other topics there are on this exact response to the game, why start a new topic?

customer

12-04-06, 14:09

read what was said reeeeeeeally carefully please

You are not making sense, I read it.

therealcamelo

12-04-06, 14:11

i said try and keep it all together rather than just starting a new topic that is jsut discussing the same points over and over

I'm almost sure, that there are as many (more) topics similar to each other dealing with the positive aspects of the game. So I don't see the problem :)

customer

12-04-06, 14:12

look at how many other topics there are on this exact response to the game, why start a new topic?

There are also many threads about how great the game is. Are they only allowed to open threads and we are not?

You are sounding hypocritical now.

viper456

12-04-06, 14:12

I'm almost sure, that there are as many (more) topics similar to each other dealing with the positive aspects of the game. So I don't see the problem :)

it goes the same for the positive threads! atleast they tend to start off different rather than just complaing about the same things over and over.

xMyrax

12-04-06, 14:13

Instead of doing a gazillion threads about how much you guys hate the game, they should start "The official negative thread about TRL!" -_-;

customer

12-04-06, 14:14

Instead of doing a gazillion threads about how much you guys hate the game, they should start "The official negative thread about TRL!" -_-;

Ok, then you guys start "The official positive thread about TRL!" and stop opening gazillions about how much you like the game, deal?

viper456

12-04-06, 14:14

You are not making sense, I read it.

its ok to have both possitve and negative thoughts on the game but why make thread after thread totally ripping the game apart?

basically stop it with the same topics! and like i said b4 the same should go for the positive ones. Its just a case of reading ratehr than being lazy and starting a new thread ratehr than looking

viper456

12-04-06, 14:15

Ok, then you guys start "The official positive thread about TRL!" and stop opening gazillions about how much you like the game, deal?

ITS BEEN DONE BUT PEOPLE IGNORED IT! AAAAARGH

and there was one for the negative side too!

customer

12-04-06, 14:16

basically stop it with the same topics! and like i said b4 the same should go for the positive ones. Its just a case of reading ratehr than being lazy and starting a new thread ratehr than looking

Are you guys going to stop with the same topics too about TRL being great then?

Again, you are sounding hypocritical now. You say we can't do it, but you can....?

customer

12-04-06, 14:16

ITS BEEN DONE BUT PEOPLE IGNORED IT! AAAAARGH

and there was one for the negative side too!

So, you can't blame us then, because you guys ignored it too, period.

xMyrax

12-04-06, 14:17

I think its because the hate threads are taking over the liking threads :)

Sonya

12-04-06, 14:17

it goes the same for the positive threads! atleast they tend to start off different rather than just complaing about the same things over and over.
I don't think they understand the word *keep together* Seriously guys,complaining about it over over about the same thing just gets rediculous overtime and its annoying,Posting something like this over and over is like unneeded spam.Get over it.

Peyn_OTHfan

12-04-06, 14:18

I think it doesnt feel like a TR because it has infact been resirected or reborn if you like. TR1 set the feeling, TRL is making that feeling better in alot of ways, although some was lost in translation..

Though it may seem strange but I totally agree with you, ToL ;)

viper456

12-04-06, 14:18

Are you guys going to stop with the same topics too about TRL being great then?

Again, you are sounding hypocritical now. You say we can't do it, but you can....?

you cant read!!! i swear to god! there is a thread for positive aspects of the game and one for negative. Its their to stop arguments like this. Its there to stop the forum being filled with identical threads, its there so people can read everything in one go rather than looking round for identical topics!

So, you can't blame us then, because you guys ignored it too, period.

or maybe if everyone stopped with the "well you did it so so can i attitude" we wouldnt have this prolem..you say "you guys" but i havnt!

customer

12-04-06, 14:19

I think its because the hate threads are taking over the liking threads :)

Which means customers are unhappy.

viper456

12-04-06, 14:21

Which means customers are unhappy.

or they just cant read to keep it all together. plus they repeat their selves. and i know this is teh same for the positve aspects too!

customer

12-04-06, 14:21

I don't think they understand the word *keep together* Seriously guys,complaining about it over over about the same thing just gets rediculous overtime and its annoying,Posting something like this over and over is like unneeded spam.Get over it.

You don't keep it together either. Really, you guys should look up the word "hypocritical".

You expect others to do something you are not doing? Look at the first page and you will see many threads praising TRL, why are they not 1 thread?

customer

12-04-06, 14:22

or they just cant read to keep it all together. plus they repeat their selves. and i know this is teh same for the positve aspects too!

Just like you repeat yourselves you mean? So why do you expect us to do it, but you are not demanding this from the positive side?

viper456

12-04-06, 14:23

Just like you repeat yourselves you mean? So why do you expect us to do it, but you are not demanding this from the positive side?

or maybe if everyone stopped with the "well you did it so so can i attitude" we wouldnt have this prolem..you say "you guys" but i havnt!

i actually think your the reason i may be repeating myself at the moment...

customer

12-04-06, 14:24

i actually think your the reason i may be repeating myself at the moment...

ANd you are the reason I do.

I made my case and it is a legit one.

Sonya

12-04-06, 14:24

Just like you repeat yourselves you mean? So why do you expect us to do it, but you are not demanding this from the positive side?
For your information,all the postive threads actually DISCUSS different aspects and usually are never the same,yet you guys seem to complain about the same thing over and over,i think you need to think it over.

viper456

12-04-06, 14:25

For your information,all the postive threads actually DISCUSS different aspects and usually are never the sam,yet you guys seem to complain about the same thing over and over,i think you need to think it over.

im so glad someone has a brain here, thanks Sonya

customer

12-04-06, 14:43

im so glad someone has a brain here, thanks Sonya

Downtalking other persons with other opinions is not the smartest thing to do, very immature.

customer

12-04-06, 14:44

For your information,all the postive threads actually DISCUSS different aspects and usually are never the same.

Yes like her boobs and her outfits and her outfits and her outfits?

viper456

12-04-06, 14:48

Yes like her boobs and her outfits and her outfits and her outfits?

bit like the games to short the games to short its like PoP

Mona Sax

12-04-06, 14:48

Right now everybody's beating a dead horse. Don't start a new topic unless you have something new to say.

Lara Croft Fan Joe

12-04-06, 14:49

I don't know if many people here have watched all four alien films, but playing Tomb Raider: Legend reminded me of how I felt after watching the last film (excluding Alien V Predator) in that series.

First you had a hated sequel with a troubled production history and which was rushed out (Alien 3) that many thought had finally buried a successful franchise. This was followed by an eagerly awaited sequel that promised to incorporate the breathless action of the first (adored) sequel with the sci-fi horror and suspense of the original film.

However, for one reason or another, watching Alien Resurrection, while visually striking, action-packed, well acted and with stunning special effects, it seemed that the dark soul and chilling mystery of the previous three films were missing.

It looked like an Alien film, but it sure didn't feel like one. It was almost totally anonymous - another sci-fi actioner on the big screen, the rather unexceptional if serviceable product of an exceptional TV writer and a French visual stylist.

Playing Tomb Raider: Legend is akin to that experience. There is Lara Croft, there are tombs and traps, she shoots, she jumps, she performs various acrobatics, there are boss fights and there are extras like motorcycle races et al. However, at no time does it feel like a Tomb Raider game.

Other contributors have mentioned this, but it is worth repeating: where is the mystery, the scale and scope, the sense of open-ended exploration, the fear, the eeriness, the eccentricity, the challenge, and, yes, the frustration?

While waiting for Angel of Darkness, I played Prince of Persia: Sands of Time - and while I enjoyed it, I kept thinking that Tomb Raider does all this more - so much more.

While waiting for Legend, I played Two Thrones - thought that it was slicker but all the poorer for it. The most depressing thing about it being the bland and charmless settings that all looked the same.

The sad thing is, Tomb Raider, instead of striking out in a new and exciting direction, has followed the PoP path - and followed it quite literally.

Quite the most dispiriting thing on playing Legend is the linear (and don't let anyone tell you otherwise) progression in each level. You are guided, hinted, prodded and prompted down a specific path with no open-ended exploration possible.

This way, and no other.

Not only does this ensure that you will complete the game much too quickly, but that the game-playing soul of Tomb Raider's past is lost completely.

Added to this, the overwhelming abundance of annoying cut-scenes detailing an incoherent and rather intelligence-insulting story, only cuts back on the game-playing experience even further.

Don't believe me? Try the Japan level - count how long you actually play the game during this level, and how much time is given over to cut scenes.

I could go on further about the insanely easy puzzles, the ad hoc gunplay that extends game-playing time but does little else, and the ridiculous entry of the interactive cut-scenes.

Who in their right mind thought that was a challenge? Being able to press buttons as they are flashed up on the screen pre-dates Atari and was probably used in the most basic and simple computer games that came on the market in the late-1970s.

Having said all that, the game is pretty, and if it didn't trade under the Tomb Raider name then it would be an enjoyable, if unchallenging, and pitifully short experience for the casual gamer.

As it stands, it is a major, major disappointment and a huge missed opportunity.

After watching Alien Resurrection, most fans looked fondly on Alien 3 - now no longer hated, but curiously regarded as a noble failure.

After Tomb Raider Legend, I can now look back on Angel of Darkness as precisely the same type of beast.
not another one!

customer

12-04-06, 14:50

Right now everybody's beating a dead horse. Don't start a new topic unless you have something new to say.

Same goes for the new threads that are now being started about how great TRL is and also the threads that people open to complain about people who complain about TRL?

There are about 15 of these threads on the first page there, why are they not all in 1 thread then if we have to too?

customer

12-04-06, 14:51

bit like the games to short the games to short its like PoP

The problem is that YOU said we shouldn't open any threads...I never did but just to give an example of how YOU did.

Mona Sax

12-04-06, 14:53

Same goes for the new threads that are now being started about how great TRL is and also the threads that people open to complain about people who complain about TRL?

There are about 15 of these threads on the first page there, why are they not all in 1 thread then if we have to too?
I mean both sides. You're wasting your energy. Like the game or don't, but flaming the other side isn't going to get you anywhere.

Satu

12-04-06, 14:54

Right now everybody's beating a dead horse. Don't start a new topic unless you have something new to say.

lol Mona, I agree but I don't think anyone is listening

customer

12-04-06, 14:58

I mean both sides. You're wasting your energy. Like the game or don't, but flaming the other side isn't going to get you anywhere.

If you read closely, you would have seen that it is the "positive" side kids who flame the "negative" side...always, calling them names even...

viper456

12-04-06, 14:59

I mean both sides. You're wasting your energy. Like the game or don't, but flaming the other side isn't going to get you anywhere.

i said b4, theres a "well they did it so so can i" attitude, no one is willing to just :cen: stop starting the threads! GRR :(

Mona Sax

12-04-06, 15:00

If you read closely, you would have seen that it is the "positive" side kids who flame the "negative" side...always, calling them names even...
No, it's not. I've been spending a lot of time in the TRL forum lately, and I don't see the least bit of a difference between certain lovers and haters of the game.

viper456

12-04-06, 15:01

The problem is that YOU said we shouldn't open any threads...I never did but just to give an example of how YOU did.

i have only opened like 3 threads..................

the real problem is that you really cant understand simple english! LEARN TO READ for christ sake!

navinloveslara

12-04-06, 15:09

Im really starting to hate this forum. Im so sick of the put downs of TRL. If you dont like it throw the bloody thing in the bin and go put TR1 back on and play it the rest of your days, because if you dont like Legend chances are that your never gonna like Tomb Raider again. It changed for the better, us fans wanted a fresh start..CD did that for us. Now that we have it we hate it, you made the decision. Do you really want to play sequal after sequal of crappy games where the grid-system gets worse everytime?

If the mood stays like this here then Im staying away...

I agree.

RCA

12-04-06, 15:42

I think you can't look back on this one because it is all different
All the others where designed by Core Design (CD) this one by Crystal Dynamics (CD) :hea:
I they had to design it from the start wheile Core had to the change to grow, but to bad they didn't .

I think a new time has come in the tomb raider series, and lengend is number one of these series :)

Lets wait and see what they give us next time

Cheerse........

Chris

TRDigger

12-04-06, 15:46

It sound like some have already made their minds up about the game without wanting to hear about other opinions. I have not because I have not got the game (or demo) yet, so all your opinions are important to me, positive, negative, or somewhere in between.
I have TR 1-6 so far and waiting in anticipation for Legend (out tomorrow in Australia). It sounds like, by what opinions I have read so far, it would be wise of me to get a demo first if I am hoping for it to be of the TR1-3 classic raiding endless landscapes/puzzle solving style (which I love TR for). It appears by what I read to have followed suit to the TR6 game style of play (linear) which I'm hoping not. AOD failed in my opinion.

Once I have TR7 I will also like to share my opinions, while our freedom still allows me to.

customer

12-04-06, 16:22

i have only opened like 3 threads..................

the real problem is that you really cant understand simple english! LEARN TO READ for christ sake!

Thanks for downtalking me again, you proved my point YET again.

viper456

12-04-06, 16:28

Thanks for downtalking me again, you proved my point YET again.

shame you didnt say that to me in the first place :)

i love downtalking to people who think they are superior anyway, and the stuff you have been annoying people with means i wont feel guilty for doing it to you.

viper456

12-04-06, 16:30

my major and infact probably the only thing that annoys me about this game is the length! i want mooooore lol hopefully the next installment will have this :) yay

Amidamaru

12-04-06, 17:25

Having only just joined i have not had a chance to give my opinion on TRL even though it is of little value and unlikely to be any different to what others had said. Not sure of this is the right place so sorry if not.

To start off i certainly dont regret paying Ģ29.99 for this game as it is simply a good game. I thought the scenery looked very impressive (especially water) and lara's variation of outfits was nice to see. Like many the biggest fault was that it simply did not consume enough of my time (In short - It was too short). I missed fighting animals and other various creatures as the constant battling with humans can get rather boring. It also definately neded to be more difficult (I try to say that without sounding big-headed). Back on the positive i felt that the new move set lara had was great with easy gameplay and decent camera angles. The introduction of the grapple was great and i love the slow time thing that they added, not original but very fun as was the mutiple flip thing. I must say that the bike sucked but only because it was so unresponsive. The movement of the bike was terrible but it didnt damage my opinion of the game. The game had nice cutscenes but sometimes it felt like there were perhaps too many interruptions where u just wanted to get on with the game. Its clear that TRL has lost something the previous games had but has also got so many great new things. For a start i was happy to see the lara jumped when i wanted her to i.e. didnt find myself constant running off ledges as she jumped too late. In fact its now hard to run off an edge as she always turns around and grabs the ledge. Good or bad? i dunno.

im sorry that this is such a messy review but u dont have to read it so it doesnt really matter.

Joe_Croft

12-04-06, 20:58

i must say on this topic i agree with viper.....there is far too many negative threads...yes theres alot of postive ones too....but they start of differently not "Lets all down TRL" with a different title.......viper you have a supporter

marcocatena

12-04-06, 21:11

Cant you respect that the new Lara is better than the old one!!!!

wonderboy

12-04-06, 21:17

this is too funny.

Catlantean

12-04-06, 21:20

People. Please keep it friendly :wve:

Sfamato

12-04-06, 21:23

Usually the complainers get heard more because they shout the loudest. People who dont complain...are playing the game and enjoying it.

Snap125

12-04-06, 21:26

TR 1 was great, specially cause it was the step from 2d to 3d that made it so special! U know theres never gonna be a step like this again....

So get over it for crying out loud!!!!

If it was for u people we would still work on command line operating systems.... cause they have this charmin flair going on ?!?!?!?! :hea:

wonderboy

12-04-06, 21:27

they still have every right to complain and complain as much as they'd like. Just like we (the people who enjoyed it) have every right to praise it all we want.

*laralover*

12-04-06, 21:30

Usually the complainers get heard more because they shout the loudest. People who dont complain...are playing the game and enjoying it.
Exactly god stop fighting and wats wrong with having threads about wat you enjoy about the game this is a forum and you can say wat you like god all the people that hate trl stop being so pathetic youv already said why you dont like the game stop going on and on and making 100 bloody threads:mad:

wonderboy

12-04-06, 21:52

*sigh*

declanedwards@gm

12-04-06, 21:52

TR 1 was great, specially cause it was the step from 2d to 3d that made it so special! U know theres never gonna be a step like this again....

So get over it for crying out loud!!!!

If it was for u people we would still work on command line operating systems.... cause they have this charmin flair going on ?!?!?!?! :hea:

You also had a great sense you were playing the game, not a interactive movie. Good gameplay doesn't age just the graphics.
Please respect my opinion, just as i respect others, the game for me was a disappointment, reading the previews and reviews, a mayor point of back to roots was made, for me they missed the target.
I am not whining for the sake of it, just expressing my opinion. I bought the first tomb raider the day it was released, i have always done that, eagerly waiting each installment, i only got tired of the game engine not the gameplay. Now crystal design did a great job on the game engine and the controls, but need to remember people that played tomb raider like to explore and get stumped on puzzles, not have there hand held the whole way through, and hard means hard, not easy.

Snap125

12-04-06, 22:41

You also had a great sense you were playing the game, not a interactive movie. Good gameplay doesn't age just the graphics.
Please respect my opinion, just as i respect others, the game for me was a disappointment, reading the previews and reviews, a mayor point of back to roots was made, for me they missed the target.
I am not whining for the sake of it, just expressing my opinion. I bought the first tomb raider the day it was released, i have always done that, eagerly waiting each installment, i only got tired of the game engine not the gameplay. Now crystal design did a great job on the game engine and the controls, but need to remember people that played tomb raider like to explore and get stumped on puzzles, not have there hand held the whole way through, and hard means hard, not easy.

U do have a point there and of course I respect your oppinion, but frankly, when i hear people saying that they sold their copy for 10 Euros it just gets me a little mad.

I have done software and game developing myself and i can just imagine how it must hurt of so many people speak and shout out loud just nasty things about something u have put your heartblood in!

TRL is a good game... and the whole movement its just... so fluid... no more finger crossing over the keyboard.... ;)

In my oppinion they got Lara just right... u know... this whole attitude thing she has going on!

I am certain there will be major improvements in the next part... TR NG has just begun!

lostin1988

12-04-06, 23:06

LOL I was at page 3 and I skipped to page 6 and the agrument was still being held! LOL This forum is just too sad.

UserName

12-04-06, 23:09

That's me out of here.

Got my TRL on Monday, finished by Tuesday, selling it by Wednesday, truely a first for me as I've kept all the others.

I was really looking forward to this release, but TRL has changed TR for me, but in a direction that seems to suite others.

For those that are enjoying it, well done to you. For those that aren't my sympathies.

Lara isn't real, doesn't wear dresses, doesn't do anything. It's an avatar in a fictitious environment, until this version, it is you who've always been the real tomb raider; however the latest incarnation removes that connection for me, and now I'm merely an observer prodding keys every now and then.

I've been a lurker on these forums for quite a few years, keeping up with the way things were going and looking forward to this new release as it was billed as back to it's roots. I've been posting in tombraider discussion groups off and on for years, and I've been saddened by endless sniping and bickering and surprised by the level of cultish following that Lara seems to have developed in some quarters in this forum.

It's very much a subjective observation, but the 'lovers' seem to stomp on the 'haters' to a greater degree than the reverse, perhaps 'lovers' is the wrong tag? And the degree to which you enjoy this game is also subjective, but keep things in proportion. The game is only a game.

Anyway I'm off (back to my command line that I still use on a daily basis).

Happy raiding, whichever version you prefer.

A.

Yunaīs Wish

12-04-06, 23:10

There is no need to fight or being agressive. You liked it...fine. Tell us why. You disliked it...fine too. Tell us why. Letīs analyze it altogether: we agree, we donīt. Itīs a forum, not a war.

P.S.: I kind of hate this threads too:p but we canīt really say it. Ooops, I did it:D

argibear

12-04-06, 23:30

... when i play the game i'll see for myself.

but if you're not a mod, guess what? ...you can't tell anyone where and how to post.

RT

12-04-06, 23:37

Itīs a forum, not a war.

Hopefully :(

galaxia2999

13-04-06, 00:26

Although I haven't personally played the game, except the demo, yet, I think it's just that since Tomb Raider has been around for such a long time, the creators don't know how to truly go back to what it was before.

Plus, the original game is always going to be TR1, other ones, even if they have achieved all that, won't beat the original because they aren't the original.

Hope that made sense. I'm not expecting TR8 to try and go back to the original tomb raider feel, it most likely can't.

Neil_aka_spike

13-04-06, 00:28

wow that was a lot of reading.
I dont know why im weighing in on all this, prob more trouble than its gona be worth, but just to get it out in the open yes i loved the game, but thats not what this thread seems to be about.
Guys, (from what i can tell) it wasnt your own opinions that were being bashed though the line does blur from time to time, it was a simple fact, you opinions coincide with tens of threads already open for discussion and healthy debate. New thread after new thread only scatters and duplicates opinions with no healthy solution or product arising from it. You guys are more than welcome to make threads, far be it for me or anyone else to tell you otherwise, and everyone as always is entitled to their own opinions, but if theres a topic already open like this why make a new one. Add to the previous, give a real reference for newcommers to analyse the ups and downs this game has to offer. Making new post after new post gets us nowhere, and though you guys can always make them if you want, the regular members and from what i can tell vast majority of this forum would prefer that a few select arguments came up and that they were debated well rather than the same thing page after page.
While your opnions have new ideas and ways of expressing them, there are places on this forum already for them.
Wow that was long. and now i feel like Jerry springer (my final thought for today - when we all fight, nobody wins, healthy debate is good, but theres a place for them, already here for us all to enjoy, lol sorry couldnt resist that)

declanedwards@gm

13-04-06, 00:43

Well i personally never opened a new thread, am i disappointed yes, it was not traditional tomb raider, i have ten experience, so i know what was, will i sell the game, lol, no, can they improve, hell yes, thats the point of threads like these, to help developers, on many forums, people shout its not quite tomb raider, if your happy great, but be honest, if you could have the old tomb raider, no replica but with the new graphics and controls you would. My point simply is people that post the grievances, are not having ago, just expressing there opinion. Which is the whole point of forums. If there was one wish for the next game, yes i would like it bigger but my main wish is please no linear gameplay, with hints all the way through.

Thorn

13-04-06, 01:34

Damn belly-achers. I can understand AoD but not Legend. There's nothing wrong with it.

RoseTyler

13-04-06, 01:40

Playing Tomb Raider: Legend is akin to that experience. There is Lara Croft, there are tombs and traps, she shoots, she jumps, she performs various acrobatics, there are boss fights and there are extras like motorcycle races et al. However, at no time does it feel like a Tomb Raider game.

Other contributors have mentioned this, but it is worth repeating: where is the mystery, the scale and scope, the sense of open-ended exploration, the fear, the eeriness, the eccentricity, the challenge, and, yes, the frustration?

Quite the most dispiriting thing on playing Legend is the linear (and don't let anyone tell you otherwise) progression in each level. You are guided, hinted, prodded and prompted down a specific path with no open-ended exploration possible.

This way, and no other.

Not only does this ensure that you will complete the game much too quickly, but that the game-playing soul of Tomb Raider's past is lost completely.

Added to this, the overwhelming abundance of annoying cut-scenes detailing an incoherent and rather intelligence-insulting story, only cuts back on the game-playing experience even further.

Don't believe me? Try the Japan level - count how long you actually play the game during this level, and how much time is given over to cut scenes.

I could go on further about the insanely easy puzzles, the ad hoc gunplay that extends game-playing time but does little else, and the ridiculous entry of the interactive cut-scenes.

Who in their right mind thought that was a challenge? Being able to press buttons as they are flashed up on the screen pre-dates Atari and was probably used in the most basic and simple computer games that came on the market in the late-1970s.

Having said all that, the game is pretty, and if it didn't trade under the Tomb Raider name then it would be an enjoyable, if unchallenging, and pitifully short experience for the casual gamer.

I totally agree with all that.
Also I think its good for people who are disappointed, to voice their opinion here. Criticism is a good thing for the people who create the games in the first place. It will help them to progress with TR and make a much better game. :D

The only things I dislike about Legend are the facts that it is extremely short and far too easy. Everything is basically done for you. Its like the review in PS2 magazine said... "How do we breathe again, CD??" :p

But in saying that, I absolutely love the game :D

charmingcharlie

13-04-06, 02:58

you know it's funny. If you read some of the posts from the TRL fans, it is like the previous tombraider games were totally crap, you know bad control, crap graphics, the grid system all that kind of thing. So it makes you wonder why they ever bothered playing tomb raider in the first place if the previous incarnations were so "crap".

At the end of the day I loved the Tomb raider games. I was so much looking forward to Legends. I was convinced after AOD they would get it right. But what did I find ? A shallow game with pretty candy and the chance to dress lara croft up in different clothes.

Ah well such is life I guess, Eidos don't want my money anymore I will make sure they don't get it in future. I have already flogged my copy of TRL to a mate I don't like for Ģ15.

Neil_aka_spike

13-04-06, 04:09

they werent crap at the time, (imo still arent, i love them) but if a company brought out a game with those kinds of graphics and that kind of tech at this point in time, it would just be financial suicide.
I think thats the point that was being made, not of the quality of previous games, but that the continuation of the same quality would by todays standards be unacceptable by virtually all gamers.

declanedwards@gm

13-04-06, 09:17

they werent crap at the time, (imo still arent, i love them) but if a company brought out a game with those kinds of graphics and that kind of tech at this point in time, it would just be financial suicide.
I think thats the point that was being made, not of the quality of previous games, but that the continuation of the same quality would by todays standards be unacceptable by virtually all gamers.

No one asked for more of the same, as in using old code, alot of people just crave the gameplay, the exploration, the puzzles, and getting lost in huge levels just with todays graphics. Apart from some control issues, the gameplay didn't date, just look a indy and the emperor's tomb.
To me its seems that the majority of people happy with the game are under 20, i'm sure their are exceptions, i personally played the original tomb raider when i was 21, and have to say at that age if i had picked up this game as my first tomb raider game, i wouldn't be a fan or want more, it only because i know that tomb raider has a lot more to offer that i do still remain loyal. Perhaps cd needs to create a broader appeal across the ages.