So the best "supports" right now aren't support characters?

So the best "supports" right now aren't support characters?

Didn't say they were, nor am I bashing supports. Riot needs to reevaluate their support designs so that they can put them in a better place where they aren't ridiculously overloaded or one-dimensional to the point that they can't have good ratios. Hell, if you were really serious about it, you'd campaign for leona's completely stupid and ham-fisted passive to get changed.

Drop your persecution complex.

Just a tip, if you drop your attitude, you probably wouldn't get attitude back.
Also, thought about replying to your response, but I doubt you actually want to discuss things. You seem like you're pretty much set on everyone else being wrong, so I don't see the point.

The paradigm of "terrible scaling, ridiculous utility and base values" for supports that Shurelia created or was at least part of is not one of the better things to happen to the game. It heavily restricts design possibilities, codifies a specific meta, and restricts the builds of supports such that nothing really feels good to buy.

Go check the base stats for a couple support champions and compare them to other classes. Not only are they not "ridiculous", as you put it, they're terrible. Example--Sona's durability stats are FAR below anyone else's, and her offensive stats are nothing to write home about.

As for "ridiculous utility" I'm entirely convinced that the entire reason this argument was ever taken up is because "utility" sounds like something support-y while being vague enough the statement couldn't be called an outright lie. There are plenty of characters from all classes that bring just as much utility in their kits as support characters.

Trolibear is one of the worst examples of this. He gets to keep lanes from pushing up (By fearing the minions with his roar), he can very easily throw someone into their carry for a kill, and he doesn't need to worry much about overextending because his passive makes it k.

supports have been nerfed too much. it should be clear that a sona, with her kit, should outweight a zyra as support, but often she doesnt. When I'm playing that sona, and the ad with me is my usual lane partner, a friend, a teammate, then we can do that. We win cause we play as a team, where a support can show her full effect. When a pro plays sona, why does he get out of position? that has nothing to do with the champion, thats just a bad player.

You people need to spend less time watching others who are better than you play the game and actually play the game yourselves. For the most part, you're all so much worse than them to the point that playing FOTM champions doesn't make any difference since there is still a huge gap in skill between you and your opponents.

supports have been nerfed too much. it should be clear that a sona, with her kit, should outweight a zyra as support, but often she doesnt. When I'm playing that sona, and the ad with me is my usual lane partner, a friend, a teammate, then we can do that. We win cause we play as a team, where a support can show her full effect. When a pro plays sona, why does he get out of position? that has nothing to do with the champion, thats just a bad player.

Attribute it to human error (the Sona player being terrible and the Zyra player being competent) and move on.