Creating multiple accounts and presenting yourself an multiple users is exactling the definition of a sock.

There were 3 Allanons. You are now #2. Were you also #1? Then help me understand why you would create a second account with the same name while the first one was active. That is creating a sock puppet.

If not, then why would you choose to copy someone else's username?

These are not accusations, but questions. I look forward to hearing your responses.

However if you wish to continue to be welcome on this thread, you will stop with the "you people" statements right now. I have no time for troll in the Eplaya Feedback discussions, and anything that falls outside of useful feedback and thoughtful discussion is going to be considered trolling and deleted.

or maybe i didn't lose maybe ack i forget but i think i forgot what email i used for that acount.

so thats why I didn't want to bother you so i just crated anouther and never used the first one

technopatra wrote:Exactly my point, Rex. It's difficult to tell.

Creating multiple accounts and presenting yourself an multiple users is exactling the definition of a sock.

There were 3 Allanons. You are now #2. Were you also #1? Then help me understand why you would create a second account with the same name while the first one was active. That is creating a sock puppet.

If not, then why would you choose to copy someone else's username?

These are not accusations, but questions. I look forward to hearing your responses.

However if you wish to continue to be welcome on this thread, you will stop with the "you people" statements right now. I have no time for troll in the Eplaya Feedback discussions, and anything that falls outside of useful feedback and thoughtful discussion is going to be considered trolling and deleted.

Bob's post seems a little out of place when followed up by what I feel is a very reasonable explanation. Perhaps an apology would be in order, after all we all make mistakes or forget things.

And I'll start it by saying that A2, I apologize for misunderstanding why you made the second account. I don't always agree with what you post, but I was out of line to say the things I said to you. I hope you'll accept this public apology.

The irony of this "sock-puppet" bullcrap is that the artist formerly known as de facto is actually great for this BBS, on the whole. He represents something other than the humorless, button-pushing, self-sanctified, sophomoric true-believer attitudes of those who get a huge fart twisted about things that have nothing substantial to do with what you or I or anyone do at the event -- or on the eplaya.

Now see. No attack from me was provoked, yet our admin insists that Bob be allowed to do this.

No insult to TP intended but as you can see, I have been steering clear of Bob. I have also stated my position on socks and how it gets blurred. Bob purposely does as I've described.

Bob can insult me as much as he likes. I understand, he's not capable of doing it in person so he needs an outlet, grant you, I can promise he will get out of control and cross the line to the point it will be undeniable by all in the eplya community. Sure there will be those that will say not possible, but mark my word he will. Trey has enough sense to know when and how to go about things. He even knows when an apology is in order.

Bob will take it too far because he's not smart enough to recognize that this is a message board. He takes all personally and he can’t face me personally.

He creates drama and loves it.

No need to go to TOS/CG on this. I have time. I will wait for Bob's next and last mistake. It's guaranteed

ok guys, we are running a very thin line between sharing our thoughts and using this forum as an opportunity to bash the person that bugs us the most.

Bob - I know that stating your opinions in the affirmative isn't your style, and that's fine, but stop with the sniping. If you can't discuss sock puppet culture without the backhanded viciousness, then leave this discussion.

DVD B - stop escalating. You do not have to respond to every post. Using the excuse that other people are the ones keeping these kind of trash threads going is to deny your responsibility in the matter. You are also invited to leave this discussion unless you back off of the personal issues.

Allanon02 - thank you for clearing up the question about your username. In the future, please feel free to avail yourself of my help.

Everyone - I know this is a divisive issue, however I know that if we all exhibit just a wee bit of self-control, you can rationally discuss this without the finger-pointing and self-righteousness that kills conversation. Please take a couple of deep breaths before posting.

Back on topic:

As I look at this and other discussions that devolve into sock-baiting, it seems that we have been loose with our terminology. A lot of accusations of sock puppetry seem to really be issues of trolling.

The most obvious observations I can make are:

1) True sock puppetry - the use of multiple accounts to promote or attack a particular opinion/stand - has actually rarely happened on the eplaya.

2) Folks tend to cry "j'accuse, sock puppet!" in response to posters who they feel are
a) lying
b) behaving illogically/incoherently
c) purposely trying to rile people up
There is therefore a judgement about the posters motivations being made. How often might we be wrong when we make these judgements? How often is it that we are just annoyed by their message/tone/posting style?

3) It is frustrating to be considered a sock, especially after providing personal info.

Ok no great conclusions here just yet. It just seems that if folks conduct themselves with a little more tolerance and stop jumping at negative bait, sock puppets become a non-issue.

Shirley... when the Gang of Five gets together over teacups of bile (milk first, pls), I'm one of your biggest defenders. Many of your one-liners are pretty damned funny. It's still mainly the cobbled-together phpBB graphical interface that makes discussions difficult to navigate for those who want to skim through and read what they choose, and avoid what they don't.

"Sock" is getting tossed around here like "witch" in a Monty Python flick. It's silly. The Guidelines -- as if they were needed -- already say that multiple logins are discouraged, not prohibited. This board is for discussion of Burning Man and related topics, mostly, but allows for areas where broader discussion can take place. This board allows you to log on as Melvin Q. Watchpocket if you like. I choose not to, but I can respect anybody's inclination to log in as a cartoon character as long as they don't drag down on-topic discussions into their own personal paranoid hell.

Ok no great conclusions here just yet. It just seems that if folks conduct themselves with a little more tolerance and stop jumping at negative bait, sock puppets become a non-issue.

It's a bit more basic than that. Those who are using the Sock Puppet method to be annoying and those who are being annoying regardless, tend to be the same. Those who choose to intentionally engage in disruptive behavour will find the means to do so.

However, regardless of the disruptive posts and sock puppet users, I've found much here of merit. Despite the annoyance, I would rather the board was left somewhat open so that I myself may choose what to read or not.

What if you think someone on the forum may be a cop? It's a pretty harsh accusation, to be sure. Maybe engage in PM and look for signs of entrapment?? Ignore altogether?

(Search: odd use of the phrase 'mary jane' in a few discussions.)

Buckethead, Buckethead you are like an Alien
Buckethead, Buckethead your head is like a dish
Buckethead, Buckethead sometimes you wear the Maybelline
Buckethead, Buckethead sometimes you're full of fish

buckethead alien wrote:What if you think someone on the forum may be a cop? It's a pretty harsh accusation, to be sure. Maybe engage in PM and look for signs of entrapment?? Ignore altogether?

(Search: odd use of the phrase 'mary jane' in a few discussions.)

If you're not doing anything illegal, than you have nothing to worry about. : )

Try telling that to all of the people who are wrongly imprisoned each year. Or some of the folks in Guantanamo who are innocent. Or any activist living in the last, oh, how many years with COINTELPRO and the Patriot Act and such.

Bullshit i tell you. Bullshit. But then, don't believe me, I'm sure having houses of many people I know invaded by the FBI was for good cause. And those cop cars outside meetings and the infiltratora and having to deal with homeland security and..... Since community organising is a crime.

Hell, i could be screwed just by being as open as i am here. But screw security culture. Halas.

Thanks for the words Buckethead. You've done it now. I am a newbee, as deuley noted. Please, be easy on me.

I've read up and down the sock pucket issue. Maybe, I have little understanding of the issue, so I will approach it that way.

2004 was my second burn. The paranoia at the fest around there this year was clearly evident. It took two to three days of extreme confidence building to my new friends out west that I was somewhat sincere. If I was a beautiful woman with a big ass that tasted like vanila icecream, perhaps, it wouldn't have taken as long. But, I can deal with the inequalities of being a generic looking cracker from the midwest. It won't shake my resolve. As a new outsider, in my novis opinion, there are numerous people in the community here that need to get small. As if their every word will go straight to the petagon, or even worse, admin.

I am sure there are dicks with ears checking out the site. So be it. Look up and down the memberlist. Few people will let us know where they are even from. As if San Fransisco has a population of 50. If you all want to take this thing "further" underground, than get off the internet. We are not that important.

OK, lets have it.

Just fishing. OK, I'm tired of just fishing. Last night I was dreaming that I was fishing. I could never get to the right spot. I kept moving around. TIME TO CATCH SOMETHING.

well i have to say that the suspicion of sock puppets has kind of ruined getting to know people on ePlaya for me...i was having so much fun chit chatting with folks and playing around, and then all of a sudden i started to feel like i was being toyed with, and that didn't feel very good. now that i cannot tell who is real and who is not i am much less likely to want to connect with people, and that is sad.

for someone like badger and isotopia its cute, and funny, and very on point, i like that, it's obvious and fun, and doesn't feel manipulative. for others, although i can respect that it is their right to be however and whoever they want to be online or in person, its not as fun for me. i just don't like that game.

also it calls everyone into suspicion, suddenly everyone could be a sock. i almost wrote everyone could be a cock! lol...anyways, it's just not fun to have to try to figure it out, so it kind of killed the sport for me. but maybe that's just as well...i didn't come to ePlaya to be chatty and find friends really, i came here to connect with the burning vibe, and talk about stuff thats meaningful and shit. the chatty meet people thing was unexpected, and very fun, but not really the point for me so much. so maybe its better this way.

i guess if i was going to change anything, or make a rule about sock puppets, it would be that you would have to be up front about your sockhood. you wouldn't have to admit who you really were, but your sock puppet would be an obvious sock, i don't know, it would be another color or have a special symbol or something. but that would be hard to enforce, no? people would have to admit it when signing up in the first place. and i'm thinking that's not going to happen. so that's my two cents, which should be worth about 1.5 cents with deflation :)

I joined this eplaya thing back in August while on a quest to find a ticket. I returned after BM and I was almost immediately accused of being a sock (How was I to know that there are other Tony's with multiple identities?). These accusations were probably not as serious as I imagined, but it was enough that I got into a couple of rants with people, as it turned out, I later befriended. I don't like the sock thing, but in some cases it can be amusing. I understand that some people wish to change their identity, or name and do so for that reason. I also understand that some people are seriously multi personality and it is just like an extension of real life.

The thing is that some people, who are real burners, come on eplaya and are immediately scared off, and do not return. I know of several of these people who are some fucking kick ass people. Is that right that they should stop coming here? I don't think so. But when these new comers get caught in some twisted sock war between socks and the feet and feet and socks of the enemy it can be quite intimidating.