scott123

I would contact Serious Eats/ Slice and send one to a staff writer there, have them put it through it's paces and give you their impressions. Same thing here. Get one in the hands of someone who knows how to bake pizza.

The 2stone has a long and proven track record for producing NY style pizza in typical gas grill. The thermodynamics on this device aren't fundamentally different. This won't produce Neapolitan bake times or wood fired oven results (you need LBE btus for those), but it will churn out great NY pie after great NY pie.

The 2stone has a long and proven track record for producing NY style pizza in typical gas grill. The thermodynamics on this device aren't fundamentally different. This won't produce Neapolitan bake times or wood fired oven results (you need LBE btus for those), but it will churn out great NY pie after great NY pie.

Testing for this is completely unnecessary.

How else is he going to get feedback he can cite to potential investors? Aside from all the legal issues, there are still the financial hurdles to overcome in getting a first production run into the hands of buyers. I agree, I don't really see much difference between this and the 2stone. Slightly different shape, different usage model, but it works about the same.

Scott, I will make a believer out of you one day. The basic is the same, but MPO (I like to call it MO) has the ability to concentrate and channel the flowing heat in a small chamber. My gas grill has only three working burners only, I don't remember what is the BTU rating anymore, I don't think it is more than 12000 BTU each, I got it from Lowe's 8 years ago, I couldn't find replacement parts when I tried years ago. The other night, the temperature reached 700 deg F when I covered the area over the bad burner with foil, and last night, I covered the other remaining space, the temperature inside oven started to increase really fast, I had to abort due to the grease fire... I think the temperature would of reached over 800, can't proof it ... I will not try this experiment on my old oven again... I am looking to buy new gas grill..Sam's has these hybrid grill, not sure if I want to go this route, or buy one gas and one charcoal grill.

Bert, once the grease burns off, it's gone. My LBE gets over 1000 degrees in the burn chamber. The first time I fired it, it smoked and stunk. I let it go and now it burns perfectly clean. Try it again, and don't panic. If the flames get out of hand, drop the lid on them, but leave the heat on until it stops smoking.

Bert, once the grease burns off, it's gone. My LBE gets over 1000 degrees in the burn chamber. The first time I fired it, it smoked and stunk. I let it go and now it burns perfectly clean. Try it again, and don't panic. If the flames get out of hand, drop the lid on them, but leave the heat on until it stops smoking.

scott123

Alright, Bert, I'll tell you what... these kinds of projects bring me a great amount of enjoyment. I'm willing, for now, to put the patent and potential retail price issues aside and, with an open mind, both see what this device can do as well as provide assistance in improving it. Be aware, though, that, regardless of how much assistance I provide, should you ever go into production and start selling it, there's a good chance that I will end up a vocal opponent.

First off, we need a lot more temperature readings than chamber air temp or case temp. We need stone temps, both hearth and ceiling. In an ideal scenario, we could get hearth bottom and hearth top readings along withe ceiling bottom and ceiling top, but, considering your setup, that may not be feasible. Drilling holes in cordierite tends to weaken it, but I'd really love to have a core temp of each stone as well.

A huge part of these bottom heat scenario devices is top to bottom heat ratio. You might be able to hit 800 in the baking chamber, but if the bottom stone is 800 and the top 700, then that's going to be a problem. The 2stone gets around this by using a very poor conductor for a hearth (fibrament). You can read about the differences between the cordierite you're using now and fibrament here:

Be aware that cordierite can vary in composition, so the numbers won't match up exactly, but this gives you a good general idea of the differences.

Whatever gas grill you purchase, make sure you keep it pretty generic- no lower than about 30K btu and no higher than 60K. You might want to think about the fact that if the price point on this device ends up being a bit high, you will be targeting a higher income demographic, who will most likely have a higher btu grill.

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scott123

It’s not that cut and dried. It’s all about the claims and how they are written - and more specifically, the claims allowed by the examiner. You are probably correct, but without reviewing the application and ultimately the granted patent (if granted), it is impossible to make such a blanket statement. It can also be surprisingly easy to get around patent claims. For example, simply enclosing the top stone in the unit with another sheet of stainless may be enough – maybe stick some ceramic insulation in there with it (5% royalty for me if you use that idea). I don’t know if this would work, but you get the idea. I’ve seen patents circumvented with much much less.

Craig, I think the emissivity of the stainless would make a pretty poor ceiling and you also might have heat transfer concerns between the (most likely) not perfectly flat steel sheet and top stone, but, as far as getting around claims being easier than I might have thought, I'll defer to your greater experience in these matters.

Scott, Hopefully I won't give you or any one else any reason to be a vocall oponent.

How close do you need to be the ratio? does it have to 1 or .75 is acceptable??

I will try to take more measurments, it is a bit hard to take picures and measure a the same time.

For the bottom stone, I have two different 15" stones, I think one is 3/8 and the other is 5/8 thick.

When the inside oven was 700 the top stone was higher, the bottom stone higher in back and lower in the front..., I start by heating the top stone first than slide the bottom stone under... I need to buy another IR thermometer, I am not how accurate the one I have.

scott123

Hey Bert, what's your location? Maybe one of the "experts" on this forum live close enough to test drive your device in person.

Good point, Brian.

Bert, one of the strengths of the 2stone is that you can put it on the grill, turn the grill on, wait for it to pre-heat, come back, and it will be ready to make pizza- and it will, based up the thermal mass of the fibrament (3/4" I believe) and the heat going into the stone during the bake, produce a pretty healthy number of consistent pizzas in succession. I've never seen the 2stone insert put through it's paces, but I'm relatively comfortable, with the right heat setting and consistent timing between bakes, it can do 4 pies without an issue.

The added labor of adding the bottom stone after the top has pre-heated for a while isn't the end of the world, but, as you bake a pizza and time passes, the top to bottom heat ratio will change, and the bottom stone, as you feed it from below, will get progressively hotter.

Pre-heating the bottom stone after the top will only give you optimal conditions for one or two pies. It's not like you can remove the hot hearth and give the ceiling another burst of energy, as handling a hot hearth produces a safety issue.

At this point in time, the forum hasn't hammered out the ideal top stone temp and bottom stone in a two stone scenario. Generally speaking, the hotter the dome in comparison to the hearth, the better. I've never heard of anyone complaining about two much top heat in these kind of scenarios.

MO top stone once it is heated, there is a minimal contact with side to lose any heat, especially with the constant hot fast flow air. I couldn't measure the air flow out of the chimney, I tried use an air speed gauges, the hot air out of the chimney melted the guage blades instantaneously.

I have used MO on multiple occasions for family gathering where i cooked 8+ pizzas. But since I was doing everything myself, the bottom stone had time recover between each pizza, I never noticed any inconsistency.

buceriasdon

Perhaps an elaboration to my reply 47 is in order. My thinking is to have someone like Kenji or Adam at Slice test the unit, yes to see if it performs as you say but also when you both are satisfied a good write up out of the gate would be a good marketing tool should you decide to proceed. Also, not that it applies to your grill accessory as it is stainless, but he first generation KettlePizza units were highly criticized for the paint popping off the carbon steel insert. The maker then went to stainless steel. Now I call that poor R&D before going to market.Don

If this takes off for you, and you get to the point where you are ready to sell in large quantity. I can make some introductions for you here in China. You can spec out any quality level you want. They are able to make more then cheap plastic Wal Mart junk here. You just need someone here to make sure they are not cutting corners.

I wanted to go with Aluminum first, but I decided not to due to it low melting point. It would have been cheaper and easier to work with. I use now 304 SS, 1.2mm in all materials used on the oven including the handles and even the screws… I am trying to prevent any rust. The only issue I have with 304 SS that it will discolor when exposed to high temperature.

I have only experimented making pizza pies with MPO temperature of 600 deg f, just by simply placing the oven on the grill for half an hour. I usually heat top stone for 15 minutes than I insert the bottom stone, the oven still perform the same even I don’t do that.

I want my design to challenged, and this forum has been great in doing that.

I am not looking to redesign the oven, it is what is...

My claim that my design is unique, and if I can proof that my oven can do something that other similar insert can’t do, that should support my claim.

I am not ready to discuss my oven outside this forum yet. Maybe later when testing does support my claim…

SinoChef, I am allready working with someone in Chain. Originally I tried to do it in the US, but there was no way for me to even afford making a prototype. The prototype quality is great... I still have minor issues to resolve.

SinoChef, I am allready working with someone in Chain. Originally I tried to do it in the US, but there was no way for me to even afford making a prototype. The prototype quality is great... I still have minor issues to resolve.

So how long did the design process take and how did you get in touch with the "prototyper"/ manufacturer in China? What deal did you make with them? Free prototype in return for manufacturing rights?