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That is it is a nutshell Firebombing required several bombers. A nuke needed but a single plane. Japan was fully committed to defending the homeland right up until the bombs dropped and they realized they had no defenses. They could make Americans bleed, they could make russians bleed and they can make Chinese bleed. Atomic bombs? They had nothing.

They had will. There were still portions of the IJA determined to fight, to the point of trying to pull a coup d'etat so that they could gain the command authority to continue the fight and this was after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Originally Posted by bonehead

The difference between Japanese fighting to the last man on a pacific island yet surrendering the homeland so quickly was the bomb. The Japanese would have surrendered just as quickly without a Russian invasion.

The Japanese didn't fight to the last man in Manchuria. They surrendered en mass when it became apparent that they lost the battle and was surrounded and continue fighting would only mean slaughter. AUGUST STORM was every bit of a shock to the Japanese High Command as was the nukes. The people may not realized it but Japanese Generals and Admirals surely did.

And there was no doubt in the Japanese high command that the Chinese were looking for pay back for Nanking. And there was nothing they could do to stop it.

OK. How many wars have we fought since that one side surrendered because their empire was lost? We even went to war, indirectly,cold etc with other countries that had nuclear weapons and we only used conventional weapons. We never used nukes and that was even before the other side had enough to enact M.A.D. Ever since WW2, nuclear weapons have been the explanation point and when one side deploys them, it is game over.

The Japanese did find a way to avoid Chinese retribution. They surrendered to the biggest guy on the block and asked for protection, and we have been giving it to them still. Why were we the biggest guys on the block? Only the U.S. had nuclear weapons.

[QUOTE=bonehead;1002751]OK. How many wars have we fought since that one side surrendered because their empire was lost?{/quote]I'm sorry but what? Japan did Pearl Harbour because she wanted to keep her Empire. Destroy her Empire in whatever shape or form, she is reduced to a begging country, as it happenned post WWII

Originally Posted by bonehead

We even went to war, indirectly,cold etc with other countries that had nuclear weapons and we only used conventional weapons. We never used nukes and that was even before the other side had enough to enact M.A.D. Ever since WW2, nuclear weapons have been the explanation point and when one side deploys them, it is game over.

The Japanese did find a way to avoid Chinese retribution. They surrendered to the biggest guy on the block and asked for protection, and we have been giving it to them still. Why were we the biggest guys on the block? Only the U.S. had nuclear weapons.

Ok, I'm lost to your arguements. I am agreeing with you that the nukes are the PRIMARY reasons why Japn gave up BUT THEY WERE NEVER THE SOLE REASONS why she gave up.

As to your question, the only empire the US went to war with, she killed. The Spanish Empire.

But this changes nothing about the primary facts! AUGUST STORM proved just militarily inept the Japanese were. The Allies were on Japan's doorsteps ... and while we knew who were the first assualters, the IJA were thinking Chinese Armies being shipped by the Americans.

And AUGUST STORM just took all the Japanese gunpowder and heating oil.