Well I am not a tech fanatic so i wont say much that I don't know (unlike some people around the internet gaming forums) but I do know this, TN really needs to step it up a bit, perfomanc elike, because visually, I like how it looks now.

MSX2, most of what you write is true but just understand that gamers don't have to like such sacrifices. You're clearly a tech-oriented person but we're talking about games sold for hard money. It doesn't matter that it was logical in the context of this engine to save many frames by turning v-sync off. It's an upolished product no matter how you look at it. The engine is flawed and you can't blame people for wanting a better value.

The real problem with NGII/NGS2 is that most of the later levels were done cheaply and it don't have anything to do with techs. It was lazy development and all those extra effects of NGS2 won't save Moscow, the caves, the jungle etc...

My favorite levels was after those you mentioned, amazing look, will even look more amazing with NGS2 visuals.
I am talking about after you fight Genshin on the volcano, you go inside it, from that place forward to Volf's place with sandstorm it looks great.

Sure inside is tons of red and with Armadillos there to blind you but still, except that part the rest was great.

I wish more levels was like that.

Right now I am wishing for a mission mode or a chapter challenge on those places, would be great if there was any.

Last edited by Sath on Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Joined: 22 Sep 2005Posts: 1392Location: In your imagination......yup, you are having visions of me.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject:

MSX2 wrote:

Sath wrote:

Well their engine isnt good with the slowdowns and screen tearing, they should just make a new one,

Optimizations galore, that's all there is to it. Technically, they could've just left everything the same in NGS2 as the original and had a more stable game; pushing about 30% more pixels and all the new effects is taxing after all.

Doing away with v-sync is actually beneficial if the frame rate isn't locked, since that could cause slowdown when the engine is stressed. Every time you see tearing in a game, it would've slowed down had there been v-sync.

What he said.

and no just slow down...it would go to a crawl if V-Sync was on.

What they should have done is shoot Naughty Dog or Guerrilla Games an email on how to apply triple buffering to remove the tearing.

Joined: 22 Sep 2005Posts: 1392Location: In your imagination......yup, you are having visions of me.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject:

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:

MSX2, most of what you write is true but just understand that gamers don't have to like such sacrifices. You're clearly a tech-oriented person but we're talking about games sold for hard money. It doesn't matter that it was logical in the context of this engine to save many frames by turning v-sync off. It's an upolished product no matter how you look at it. The engine is flawed and you can't blame people for wanting a better value.

The real problem with NGII/NGS2 is that most of the later levels were done cheaply and it don't have anything to do with techs. It was lazy development and all those extra effects of NGS2 won't save Moscow, the caves, the jungle etc...

Do you understand what you are saying or are you just spewing BS yet again?

Do you know through how many hoops developers have to go to eliminate screen tearing most of the time? AND EVEN then 95% of games out today have terrible tearing. Even Uncharted 1, the greatest technical achievement on a console to date, has terrible screen tearing. Are you saying that Naughty Dog's engine is unfinished and flawed?

Joined: 22 Sep 2005Posts: 1392Location: In your imagination......yup, you are having visions of me.

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject:

Sath wrote:

I played U1 only once, but yeah I noticed screentearing.

But U2 isnt out, but so isnt Sigma 2, even though its pretty much done, even now, U2 has yet to show any screentearing.

But whatever, we shouldnt compare different games from different companies.

We should only compare games from the same company because each company uses their own engine and their experience. One is better than the other anyways.

That is not what I am saying...

I just pointed out to him that screen tearing does not mean you have a busted engine in your hands. ND, one of the premier developers when it comes to tech, had terrible screen tearing in their first Uncharted...as do 95% of developers out there.

Ninja of Chaos, I'm perfectly aware how big of an issue screen tearing is and I didn't say it's easy to eliminate it but that doesn't take the responsibility off the developers.

Uncharted 1 has awful screen tearing (it pains me to this day) but they've manged to overcome the issue in U2. Team Ninja didn't improve in this aspect since NGII, they've actually gone in the wrong direction with their PS3 port since the tearing is very bad this time and no matter how hard you'll try to protect them, many people all over the world will still be off-put by it.

Stop being such a tech freak because in the end the consumer doesn't care how hard it is for a developer to implement something. It's TN wanting our money, not us begging for their games (well, some of us do that but I'm talking about the bigger picture).

Oh, and I'm waiting for a confirmation of in-game music and in-game screenshots. If TN didn't use XMB's awesome fuctions, it's ONLY THEIR LAZINESS and there's no way of defending that.

Last edited by Takehaniyasubiko on Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:10 pm; edited 3 times in total

I understand.
But this is TN's third next gen game, you would expect them to know by now how to optimize the engine better if the first 2 didn't quite cut it.

But as I said, I hope NG3 is better made, in general.

But I for one didn't care much for the screentearing or framerate, I had fun.

The screentearing is there, but I don't mind it that much, its mostly on vast front views, atleast thats what I get when I play the demo.
Framerate, only when there is too much effects like by the sakura trees and before the buddah fight, especially with all the soldiers with their bullets and rockets.

WTF? IS THIS COOP MODE FOR REAL. THE FREAKING. AI DOESN'T Ever block, and is absorbing all essesence for my UTs. They need to fix that crap._________________the who fights and survives must carry on the legacy.

MSX2, most of what you write is true but just understand that gamers don't have to like such sacrifices. You're clearly a tech-oriented person but we're talking about games sold for hard money. It doesn't matter that it was logical in the context of this engine to save many frames by turning v-sync off. It's an upolished product no matter how you look at it. The engine is flawed and you can't blame people for wanting a better value.

The real problem with NGII/NGS2 is that most of the later levels were done cheaply and it don't have anything to do with techs. It was lazy development and all those extra effects of NGS2 won't save Moscow, the caves, the jungle etc...

Unpolished and done cheap my foot. Not liking the art direction is one thing, but to call the effort cheap is nonsensical. When only a handful of games run at 60Hz and most of them run at 30Hz (and largely inconsistently), that tells you something, doesn't it? DMC4 is the only other prolific action title out there and while it looks better, it does little in the way of AI, varied character designs, and length unlike TN's effort. It lacked content, period. And that came from a larger development house.

When a small developer like TN decides to port a game from the 360 to the PS3 and they end up creating a new engine to re-built it from scratch in just about a year, it's VERY impressive and commendable. There are a ton of technical improvements to the presentation AND they didn't skimp on the content. All while aiming for a 60Hz rendering rate, but you're complaining about what... tearing? Bull.

If you want to talk value, aside from all that's mentioned, the game was remixed and they added online co-op. All belated releases nowadays add far less and perform similarly, or even worse than the original material. That's not the case here by any stretch of imagination.

Well, uh...yeah. Good job, guys. I love how a bunch of people on a gaming forum are debating the technical aspects of a demo build over half a year old...but I digress.

Sath, Aileen took a sick day today, which means no answer. She may get back to me tomorrow, but I wouldn't hold out for that. Do what you gotta do. The most likely answer is full unlocked international play. Take that or leave it, I suppose. Gamestop US will likely get it to you quicker too._________________

And perhaps best of all, the game boasts a new DOA Online World feature via Xbox Live, which allows for international online tournaments, increased simultaneous global online play, clan formation capabilities, voice and text chat, and a whole lot more!