Duh, its called sarcasm chuck. I will try to remember how I should conduct myself on the forums. Everything I do, I do with passion, that may make me a little harsh on the forums, but it also means I'm passionate about what we build. I can live with that.

Its from the Peanuts. Peppermint Patty is always $#@!ing with Charlie brown and he doesn't get it. So she tells him, its Sarcasm Chuck. He still doesn't get it. Apologies for the mix up.. On another note, I had already of course tested them in the past, but just redid it again, the N55 actuator has almost the indentical rod extension as the N54 actuators at the same vacuum applied. They are fully closed around 8 In/hg, when you apply full vacuum to them 20+ in/hg duplicating full WGDC, they are both almost even in terms of forcing them open. I had already done this test long ago, but figured it was worth looking at again. Just reaffirms to me, that the actuator is not at fault, boost is either leaking somewhere, being diverted through the DV, or the DME is opening the gate. As I stated yesterday, best way to test this, would be just to remove the dv from the loop, test, if no change, pull the waste gate hose and apply manual vacuum, if still no change you have a boost leak somewhere. Pretty easy checks.

As I stated yesterday, best way to test this, would be just to remove the dv from the loop, test, if no change, pull the waste gate hose and apply manual vacuum, if still no change you have a boost leak somewhere. Pretty easy checks.

I told Terry to do the wastegate check. The DV can be an issue too if it's leaking. Just gotta do a boost leak test too.

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I told Terry to do the wastegate check. The DV can be an issue too if it's leaking. Just gotta do a boost leak test too.

the dv most likely isn't leaking as it has a 20psi plus spring, but it's very possible the DME is opening it to bleed boost, the dme already does then under the DTC logic, so it makes sense it would do it if it sees over boost as well. Very easy to check.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

Once things cool down and Terry gets a proper backend on the N55 car I think he'll re-address the issues. At least I hope he does for everyone on this side of the forum. I think he's just upset the car was broken and now has a bad taste in his mouth about that car. It's happened to me on my projects before.

As far as stealing from AR, I'd feel worse about it if they didn't charge as much as they did for their artwork. But in that regard I bypassed AR and BMS for my downpipes anyway so it's whatever. And also these are downpipes we're talking about, it's kinda difficult to steal somebodies IP on a couple weld locations in a incredibly confined space, all the 3" pipes look very similar. Plus a Chinese company will never hold the same esteem that AR has in terms of quality. It's like the whole Apple vs Samsung thing... Apple can't copyright a square form factor (or can they), but they will do their best to discredit anyone who "copies" it. Yeesh.

Even if you didn't steal a damn thing from RB, I bet he feels like you did. I bet he discredits you because he feels cheated out of his market. I bet it's pretty tough for him to play nice on the forums when he sees you stealing his sales and I bet he wants to say "I told you so" to all of your supporters turned haters. But did you copy his product? Do you deserve that treatment? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. Your turbo's from the outside look an awful lot like his do... just sayin... (just proving a point).

Even if you didn't steal a damn thing from RB, I bet he feels like you did. I bet he discredits you because he feels cheated out of his market. I bet it's pretty tough for him to play nice on the forums when he sees you stealing his sales and I bet he wants to say "I told you so" to all of your supporters turned haters. But did you copy his product? Do you deserve that treatment? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. Your turbo's from the outside look an awful lot like his do... just sayin... (just proving a point).

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

Just pull that WG line off. Do a slow 3rd/4th gear roll into and see where the boost goes.

I think you might be confused on how this system works. These are normally open vacuum actuated systems. BMW made them this way so if you lost a line etc, they fail to the normally open (no boost) condition. If you pull the line of the wastegate you get zero boost, not full boost. In order to take DME control away from the gate, you must pull the hose off the solenoid that goes to the actuator, then you must apply at least 20 in/hg of vacuum to it to duplicate 100% WGDC. You can do this is a mighty vac style vacuum pump and just leave it under the hood, or on these kill 2 birds with one stone and pull the vacuum line going to the DV Tee off the vacuum source on the valve cover and put the actuator hose on there. Then it sees full vacuum all the time and stays closed. This will give you full boost as far the turbo mechanics are concerned. This doesn't mean the car still cant kill boost in other ways. Until the tuning is really sorted its going to be hard to tell exactly what is bleeding boost unless its just something simple.

Once things cool down and Terry gets a proper backend on the N55 car I think he'll re-address the issues. At least I hope he does for everyone on this side of the forum. I think he's just upset the car was broken and now has a bad taste in his mouth about that car. It's happened to me on my projects before.

As far as stealing from AR, I'd feel worse about it if they didn't charge as much as they did for their artwork. But in that regard I bypassed AR and BMS for my downpipes anyway so it's whatever. And also these are downpipes we're talking about, it's kinda difficult to steal somebodies IP on a couple weld locations in a incredibly confined space, all the 3" pipes look very similar. Plus a Chinese company will never hold the same esteem that AR has in terms of quality. It's like the whole Apple vs Samsung thing... Apple can't copyright a square form factor (or can they), but they will do their best to discredit anyone who "copies" it. Yeesh.

Even if you didn't steal a damn thing from RB, I bet he feels like you did. I bet he discredits you because he feels cheated out of his market. I bet it's pretty tough for him to play nice on the forums when he sees you stealing his sales and I bet he wants to say "I told you so" to all of your supporters turned haters. But did you copy his product? Do you deserve that treatment? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. Your turbo's from the outside look an awful lot like his do... just sayin... (just proving a point).

I get what you are saying, but I still find it hard to stomach that he took other respected Vendor products and knocked them off. Its a much easier way to make something, but its not exactly something people enjoy when it happens to them. Either way, this discussion has gotten off track. I have offered plenty of ways to test the boost of the turbo. If he wants to try to figure it out he can, or he can just leave it go and we will get one tuned soon.

I'm present on both forums and from what I saw/read on the other forum was only partially about testing the turbo upgrade. I realize that's a huge arguement about how much boost the turbo is actually capable of but what I'm still looking for clarity on is the other half of the argument... which was focused around having customers pay for R&D and paying for N55 turbo upgrades that have yet to be tested, shipped or sent out yet. Please keep in mind, I am not one of those customers so I am not pointing fingers at anybody here. Just looking for some open answers as to what's actually happening vs. what people say or post in a forum to create spin or discrepency about a company.

I think you might be confused on how this system works. These are normally open vacuum actuated systems. BMW made them this way so if you lost a line etc, they fail to the normally open (no boost) condition. If you pull the line of the wastegate you get zero boost, not full boost. In order to take DME control away from the gate, you must pull the hose off the solenoid that goes to the actuator, then you must apply at least 20 in/hg of vacuum to it to duplicate 100% WGDC. You can do this is a mighty vac style vacuum pump and just leave it under the hood, or on these kill 2 birds with one stone and pull the vacuum line going to the DV Tee off the vacuum source on the valve cover and put the actuator hose on there. Then it sees full vacuum all the time and stays closed. This will give you full boost as far the turbo mechanics are concerned. This doesn't mean the car still cant kill boost in other ways. Until the tuning is really sorted its going to be hard to tell exactly what is bleeding boost unless its just something simple.

Ahh, there is more technology involved with these cars than I can even fathom. Thanks, learning something everyday.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

Additionally, was there any details or information on how or why the 4 VANOS bolts were shaved off and found inside the oil pan? Was there anything wrong with the test car that showed what the issue was there?

Again, no sides here. It's just not possible to fully understand what happened, why it happened or how...until all of the answers are out on the table.

Additionally, was there any details or information on how or why the 4 VANOS bolts were shaved off and found inside the oil pan? Was there anything wrong with the test car that showed what the issue was there?

Again, no sides here. It's just not possible to fully understand what happened, why it happened or how...until all of the answers are out on the table.

This becoming more and more common on the N55 (supposed HUGE upgrade from the N54....which is yet to be seen) there have been multiple reports of this same thing happening on complete stock N55's. I couldn't personally tell you what the fault is or how to keep it from happening in the future, a motor guy would need to shed more light on it like Tony or @alex@ABRhouston

If no one can see whats going on here. Let me break it down very simply. The N55 has NEVER been tuned for an upgraded turbo before. Terry spent what, a couple hours on it, threw it on the dyno, and posted a negative report, saying the turbo is no good, it spools slow and makes no power. Imagine if the first time the N54 was tuned for upgraded turbos, a tuner with a negative agenda spent a couple hours on them, posted a dyno and said thats it, thats all these turbos can do, look at that spool, etc etc. (the spool is actually fine, you can see in terrys log is spools right up and the gate opens and slows it down). Just for fun lets take Terry's new ST kit he has been tuning for what 2 weeks now and is still working on wastegate control, boost, spool, etc. First time on the dyno he could barely control the boost, it wouldn't make more than 21 psi, and the numbers were less than stellar. Now imagine Terry had an agenda to make FFTEC look bad because they had a falling out. Instead of him posting those graphs and logs with a hey, were just getting started a lot of work to be done attitude, he posts them with a, well this sure was waste of money, they spool 2000 RPM slower than stage 2 stock frames, and only make 50 more WHP than stage 2 stock frames, what a downgrade! Im pulling this POS kit right now and sending it back.

To be clear, THAT is what is going on here people. The turbo is fine, when is the last time you have seen a new turbo upgrade that has never been tuned before, get thrown on the dyno with a couple hours of tuning and deemed as a failure? NEVER because you would be a fool, its took me and Dzenno 2-3 weeks of street tuning Stage 3 to get it even close to being ready for the first dyno session, with us staying up til 2-3 am many nights. Just sit tight and we will get this thing back and show you what it can do. Terry is only hurting himself because once we do tune it. The Cobb and PTF guys will have a head start and will get the majority of the N55 tuning. As they should anyways. As usual common sense and real thinking will prevail.

If no one can see whats going on here. Let me break it down very simply. The N55 has NEVER been tuned for an upgraded turbo before. Terry spent what, a couple hours on it, threw it on the dyno, and posted a negative report, saying the turbo is no good, it spools slow and makes no power. Imagine if the first time the N54 was tuned for upgraded turbos, a tuner with a negative agenda spent a couple hours on them, posted a dyno and said thats it, thats all these turbos can do, look at that spool, etc etc. (the spool is actually fine, you can see in terrys log is spools right up and the gate opens and slows it down). Just for fun lets take Terry's new ST kit he has been tuning for what 2 weeks now and is still working on wastegate control, boost, spool, etc. First time on the dyno he could barely control the boost, it wouldn't make more than 21 psi, and the numbers were less than stellar. Now imagine Terry had an agenda to make FFTEC look bad because they had a falling out. Instead of him posting those graphs and logs with a hey, were just getting started a lot of work to be done attitude, he posts them with a, well this sure was waste of money, they spool 2000 RPM slower than stage 2 stock frames, and only make 50 more WHP than stage 2 stock frames, what a downgrade! Im pulling this POS kit right now and sending it back.

To be clear, THAT is what is going on here people. The turbo is fine, when is the last time you have seen a new turbo upgrade that has never been tuned before, get thrown on the dyno with a couple hours of tuning and deemed as a failure? NEVER because you would be a fool, its took me and Dzenno 2-3 weeks of street tuning Stage 3 to get it even close to being ready for the first dyno session, with us staying up til 2-3 am many nights. Just sit tight and we will get this thing back and show you what it can do. Terry is only hurting himself because once we do tune it. The Cobb and PTF guys will have a head start and will get the majority of the N55 tuning. As they should anyways. As usual common sense and real thinking will prevail.

I totally get what you're saying and I can certainly see how it would be frustrating from your point of view as the guy who spent all of the time working hard on a new N55 product. Absolutely 100% get that and from what data I've gathered, you DO know your sh*t.

Where i'm struggling to get onboard here (again....ALL other BS aside that's currently going on) is that myself, along with a number of other Midwest guys who I've been speaking with are desperately looking for the right N55 turbo upgrade partner for our platform. If there are evident issues to work through based on the claims that Terry has made, why not push forward and work on those (and express that in your forum to maintain the confidence of N55 owners) rather than get involved in a bicker back and forth that makes you look defensive? I'm sure you have an excellent product (I just read a forum post where Rob at RB even commented on your turbo saying that it looked like a very solid piece of machinery - he complemented your work) but it still seems like a prototype that you're "testing out" on the N55 crowd before it's been fully proven out. I'm desperately waiting to pull the trigger on an N55 upgrade kit but until I see the test data and understand how this particular product has been fully vetted out and the anger and hostility start to decline, it just simply will not happen. Not for $4,000 and no dyno results to back up the claims.

I guess all in all, I'm just not following why everyone is so angry and arguing over something that has yet to show what it's capable of. Most of us without a turbo upgrade are already around the 390/400hp range so if all we have "to-date" is one graph showing 409hp, where is my incentive to spend the money without any results?

I just think the guns need to come down and everyone needs to start working towards a common goal again which was to develop and build an N55 upgrade that would produce LOTS of power. So far we haven't seen that and that doesn't mean this entire thing needs to become a blame game. We just need to get everyone back on the same page again to understand what needs to happen next in order to continue to push forward.

Maybe nobody else feels the same way but this is my perspective on the situation. It doesn't matter who the turbo kit comes from IMO. What DOES matter is that whoever that company is, is someone I can trust, speak to if I have questions and see proven data on a particular product to know that my money went towards something I have no doubt will produce very good results.

I totally get what you're saying and I can certainly see how it would be frustrating from your point of view as the guy who spent all of the time working hard on a new N55 product. Absolutely 100% get that and from what data I've gathered, you DO know your sh*t.

Where i'm struggling to get onboard here (again....ALL other BS aside that's currently going on) is that myself, along with a number of other Midwest guys who I've been speaking with are desperately looking for the right N55 turbo upgrade partner for our platform. If there are evident issues to work through based on the claims that Terry has made, why not push forward and work on those (and express that in your forum to maintain the confidence of N55 owners) rather than get involved in a bicker back and forth that makes you look defensive? I'm sure you have an excellent product (I just read a forum post where Rob at RB even commented on your turbo saying that it looked like a very solid piece of machinery - he complemented your work) but it still seems like a prototype that you're "testing out" on the N55 crowd before it's been fully proven out. I'm desperately waiting to pull the trigger on an N55 upgrade kit but until I see the test data and understand how this particular product has been fully vetted out and the anger and hostility start to decline, it just simply will not happen. Not for $4,000 and no dyno results to back up the claims.

I guess all in all, I'm just not following why everyone is so angry and arguing over something that has yet to show what it's capable of. Most of us without a turbo upgrade are already around the 390/400hp range so if all we have "to-date" is one graph showing 409hp, where is my incentive to spend the money without any results?

I just think the guns need to come down and everyone needs to start working towards a common goal again which was to develop and build an N55 upgrade that would produce LOTS of power. So far we haven't seen that and that doesn't mean this entire thing needs to become a blame game. We just need to get everyone back on the same page again to understand what needs to happen next in order to continue to push forward.

Maybe nobody else feels the same way but this is my perspective on the situation. It doesn't matter who the turbo kit comes from IMO. What DOES matter is that whoever that company is, is someone I can trust, speak to if I have questions and see proven data on a particular product to know that my money went towards something I have no doubt will produce very good results.

I am not trying to be rude here in anyway shape or form. But what issues am I to work on? Everything Terry has shown in his dyno session is fixable in the tune. So what you are saying is, since Terry had all kinds of tuning issues with is single turbo on the dyno his first time, not to mention he has a smoking turbo. He needs to send the turbo kit back to FFTEC so they can work out the issues? No Terry has never tuned a ST turbo before EVERYONE knows this, he is working through the kinks figuring out boost control, spool, etc, etc, etc. But since he has no agenda against them, he isn't saying anything bad about it, instead speaking the truth, that he needs to work out the tuning kinks to bring the real potential out of the turbo. I am not sure where that is getting lost on you guys, but if you expect a turbo upgrade, on a platform that has never been tuned, EVER. The software is just now coming available, I am not talking about some basic piggy where you can fool the car into making a few more PSI, etc. I am talking a real tuning solution, has now just come on the market. If Terry was a stand up guy, he would have done exactly what he did on the ST, stated, ok you can see here where it started to spool then the gate opened, also we cant get it to hold boost past this, there is obviously some work to do on the tune and possibly to some testing to make sure we aren't bleeding boost up top etc. Tha'ts how initial tuning is done, and progress is made. That you guys are falling for his song and dance is almost comical. Just sit tight and watch what this turbo will do when someone is actually trying to make it right.

I am not trying to be rude here in anyway shape or form. But what issues am I to work on? Everything Terry has shown in his dyno session is fixable in the tune. So what you are saying is, since Terry had all kinds of tuning issues with is single turbo on the dyno his first time, not to mention he has a smoking turbo. He needs to send the turbo kit back to FFTEC so they can work out the issues? No Terry has never tuned a ST turbo before EVERYONE knows this, he is working through the kinks figuring out boost control, spool, etc, etc, etc. But since he has no agenda against them, he isn't saying anything bad about it, instead speaking the truth, that he needs to work out the tuning kinks to bring the real potential out of the turbo. I am not sure where that is getting lost on you guys, but if you expect a turbo upgrade, on a platform that has never been tuned, EVER. The software is just now coming available, I am not talking about some basic piggy where you can fool the car into making a few more PSI, etc. I am talking a real tuning solution, has now just come on the market. If Terry was a stand up guy, he would have done exactly what he did on the ST, stated, ok you can see here where it started to spool then the gate opened, also we cant get it to hold boost past this, there is obviously some work to do on the tune and possibly to some testing to make sure we aren't bleeding boost up top etc. Tha'ts how initial tuning is done, and progress is made. That you guys are falling for his song and dance is almost comical. Just sit tight and watch what this turbo will do when someone is actually trying to make it right.

I think the main difference is that with the FFTEC kit they didn't start shipping out to customers until they had proven results (with vishnu). Terry is now doing R&D to make it work with the JB4, but FFTEC aren't selling it as such. their website still says that it has to be run with procede, because that what they know works, and also includes required DME reprogramming in the cost. All we want is proven results that everything works without any changes needing to be made before things start shipping out to customers

I think the main difference is that with the FFTEC kit they didn't start shipping out to customers until they had proven results (with vishnu). Terry is now doing R&D to make it work with the JB4, but FFTEC aren't selling it as such. their website still says that it has to be run with procede, because that what they know works, and also includes required DME reprogramming in the cost. All we want is proven results that everything works without any changes needing to be made before things start shipping out to customers

I think you that Terry, claimed over and over and over and over, that once he got his hands on a ST he could tune right away, he made claims of reducing spool by as much as 700 RPM, said the JB4 was was the ticket, blah blah blah. Now that is actually trying it, well its not so easy now is it. Same thing here, he expects to just throw a Jb at it, run the same settings and maps he did, and its going to work the same. Unfortunately that is never the case. I knew tuning was going to be a pain in the butt, but I expected it to be treated as any other upgrade tuned for the first time. With kid gloves, and honesty about the downfalls of certain things in the tune and trying to figure them out. Either way, you guys can argue it all day. As soon as we get this thing back, I am not going to touch it and I am going to bolt it on another car and have it tuned. No changes, then we will compare.

I think you that Terry, claimed over and over and over and over, that once he got his hands on a ST he could tune right away, he made claims of reducing spool by as much as 700 RPM, said the JB4 was was the ticket, blah blah blah. Now that is actually trying it, well its not so easy now is it. Same thing here, he expects to just throw a Jb at it, run the same settings and maps he did, and its going to work the same. Unfortunately that is never the case. I knew tuning was going to be a pain in the butt, but I expected it to be treated as any other upgrade tuned for the first time. With kid gloves, and honesty about the downfalls of certain things in the tune and trying to figure them out. Either way, you guys can argue it all day. As soon as we get this thing back, I am not going to touch it and I am going to bolt it on another car and have it tuned. No changes, then we will compare.

Im totally fine with that, that sounds like the best thing to do. Get it on dzennos car and then start troubleshooting if necessary. I just think that that should all be done BEFORE they go out to customers

Im totally fine with that, that sounds like the best thing to do. Get it on dzennos car and then start troubleshooting if necessary. I just think that that should all be done BEFORE they go out to customers

Building a Turbo upgrade doesn't mean the company making it fixes every issue with the car in order for it to get its full potential. Thats like saying if you buy a kit that will make 800 WHP, the maker of the kit is responsible to build your motor so they can run it to its full potential. We made sure the turbo was functioning perfectly before it left, with lots of street driving and a bunch of runs. If the N55 itself needs more work, or the tuning isn't there yet, that's just part of the upgrade process. Its taken years to figure out what all the N54's weak spots were, and I know RB's helped find a ton of them. Does that mean he was responsible for taking care of them? Of course not as long as his turbos worked as advertised, whatever else needs to be upgraded to realize their potential is up to the OP. Now, this isn't to say if a problem is found within the wastegate, as in its too weak (doesn't seem possible its at least as strong as the N54's if not stronger) etc, of course it will be addressed prior to going out. Nothing has left the shop yet except this test turbo.

Im totally fine with that, that sounds like the best thing to do. Get it on dzennos car and then start troubleshooting if necessary. I just think that that should all be done BEFORE they go out to customers

Thank you. This is where my thoughts were as well. This product is 100% about the customer. Hard to sell an N55 crowd on buying a product that is not ready yet.

Correct. A "TEST TURBO". So how can you justifiably sell this product to a customer without everything worked out? That's all we're trying to say. Yes, you have a great turbo but unless you have a partner for people to work with that will make this turbo capable of producing power, it should not be sold to the general public. When I bought my AR downpipes, they were bolt on power; exactly what AR claims and has tested out. If AR would have sold me the downpipes but then at the same time turned around and said "By the way, these DPs are not going to produce any power for you unless you find the right tuner", I would not have purchased them. It's not my responsibility as the consumer to have to "make the part work as designed". That's the designers job. And that's all were all trying to convey here. If the product does not have the proper tune match to go with it, they shouldn't be getting sold jus yet or you make your customer feel like they were taken advantage of.