Its gonna fall with the corners much like last years draft.there just isn't a huge gap from. The 2nd tier guys so teams aare willing to wait till rd2 or 3 .

March 22nd, 2012, 6:19 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: rumor has it

Question: Who are the 1st tier corners, and who are the 2nd tier corners?

Are Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, Jenkins and Gilmore considered tier one and guys like Hosely, Dennard, Minnifield and Robinson considered tier two?

Exactly what do you see as those rankings, and who is in them?

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

March 22nd, 2012, 12:59 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: rumor has it

m2karateman wrote:

allenslions wrote:

Well first thing luke will be gone before we pick as there are atleast three teams on the hunt for him.and you think kirkpatrick will be gone tell me the Three teams that will be taking a corner ahead of us.and remember the bengals have jenkins primed as there first pick.

I could still see Dallas taking Kirkpatrick. If DeCastro is taken ahead of them (Seattle or Arizona), then Dallas may decide that Brandon Carr has one side, but they want help on the other side. Not saying that it will be that way, but I think it's a remote possibility.

Seattle cut Marcus Trufant, so is it possible they go with Kirkpatrick? I don't think so, but stranger things have happened.

Cinci has two picks ahead of us. Would they consider taking Kirkpatrick if Jenkins is gone? I think they would. Cleveland may consider it with their 22nd pick.

The other obvious concern is that some team with a need at corner trades ahead of us. You had mentioned that St. Louis was looking to move back into round one with their second round picks. I think Cinci or Cleveland may be willing to trade down with their 21st or 22nd picks, and the Rams have a need at corner. Possible? Yes. Probable? No. But stranger things have happened.

New England, in my opinion, is another candidate to possibly jump ahead if Kirkpatrick is still on the board around the #20 pick.

I'm sure there are other teams who may have an interest in Kirkpatrick who would consider moving ahead of the Lions, but it's late and I'm too tired to think about it any longer.

I agree M2. And I'll add... I wouldn't be shocked if Cinci took Kirkpatrick over Jenkins. I know the rumors are they're more interested in Jenkins, but teams often throw out smoke screens near draft time and most every site I see has Kirkpatrick rated ahead of Jenkins.

allenslions wrote:

Well first thing luke will be gone before we pick as there are atleast three teams on the hunt for him.and you think kirkpatrick will be gone tell me the Three teams that will be taking a corner ahead of us.and remember the bengals have jenkins primed as there first pick.

I said that Luke will be gone. I was asking a hypothetical, and even stated that in my post. I wanted to know, hypothetically, if Luke fell WOULD we take him over Dre, or would we still go CB even if Luke was the BPA on the board...

Re: Kirkpatrick's definite availability:Wait wait wait... We draft BPA no matter what (with common sense, allegedly), but no other teams do? (or at least you're counting on the 7 teams between his draft value and our pick not to) At least 7 teams are going to pass on Kirkpatrick, while he's the BPA on the board, before we pick because they're stupid? Or is it because they employ a futile draft strategy? You can't have it both ways. You can't say that BPA is the best draft strategy AND say emphatically "he will be there," unless you're trying to say that the majority of teams in the NFL aren't smart.

Further, why the hell WOULD we take a CB in round 1 if the "2nd tier guys are as good as the first?" (which is what I've been saying all along, mind you) Why WOULDN'T we draft a guy like Konz in the first round when there is a huge fall off in OL talent, and draft a CB in the 2nd round if there is little to no drop off in talent? That simply doesn't make sense.

March 22nd, 2012, 2:03 pm

njroar

Team MVP

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 3262

Re: rumor has it

BPA still ranks positional value. I don't think many have Luke as top of their boards, so I could see him fall to 32 and the Giants if he doesn't go early to a team with need at MLB. CB's are going to have higher value now that league has gone pass happy.

The key word is value. BPA is going to be different for each team because each team values positions higher than others, so what you individually claim is better player is not going to line up with all 32 teams across the board. Jenkins might be rated 1st round for some teams, and he might not be on the board at all for others. How they value the position and the potential risk are what make mock drafting impossible to perfect. The values also differ every single year.

March 22nd, 2012, 2:19 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: rumor has it

As far as Luke Keuchly goes, I think there is zero chance he falls to 32. Just saw PFT's Mock showing that. No way.

March 22nd, 2012, 2:41 pm

allenslions

Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 amPosts: 306

Re: rumor has it

First off do you get a hard on challenging me.I answer your question tand I know I shouldn't have.second I have never said anything about bpa.do u think there is some universal set ranking list of players that all teams draft from.hell if I showed you all 32teams boards none are even close to another.here,s the facts aftr the top 3tackle,s they don't have another with a first round grade.as for the corners there is a drop off in talent with the second tier of guys but by the time we pick in round 2 we will be into the 3rd tier of players.so a starting corner for us has to come from rd1.where a team like dallas can still get one of those 2nd tier guys.and as for the bengels they do like jenkins more. Aas they feel he is much smiother in his backpeddle then kirkpatrick.this is also my opinion as well.did,nt you read my post tthat I had gilmore ranked slightly higher because he was smoother in the drills.that's my opinion you don't have to like it.it makes no difference to me.come april we will all know won't we.

March 22nd, 2012, 3:52 pm

allenslions

Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 amPosts: 306

Re: rumor has it

And you keep screaming konz.do you think there gonna draft riolia,s replacement in rd 1.they wouldn't do it to replace jeff why in the hell would u think they would do it to dom.if they address center it will be a developmental player.

March 22nd, 2012, 3:58 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: rumor has it

allenslions wrote:

First off do you get a hard on challenging me.I answer your question tand I know I shouldn't have.second I have never said anything about bpa.do u think there is some universal set ranking list of players that all teams draft from.hell if I showed you all 32teams boards none are even close to another.here,s the facts aftr the top 3tackle,s they don't have another with a first round grade.as for the corners there is a drop off in talent with the second tier of guys but by the time we pick in round 2 we will be into the 3rd tier of players.so a starting corner for us has to come from rd1.where a team like dallas can still get one of those 2nd tier guys.and as for the bengels they do like jenkins more. Aas they feel he is much smiother in his backpeddle then kirkpatrick.this is also my opinion as well.did,nt you read my post tthat I had gilmore ranked slightly higher because he was smoother in the drills.that's my opinion you don't have to like it.it makes no difference to me.come april we will all know won't we.

You're starting to sound less and less like an "expert" and more and more like someone that has a friend that gets some inside info. I personally don't think you have the educational background, nor the intelligence to be what you claim.

That said, I have to ask you the same.... Do you get off by challenging me? I posted a generic response, not directed toward you in any way. YOU immediately challenged me and demanded that I name three teams that would be drafting a CB ahead of us.

Secondly, no, you did NOT answer my question. You DODGED my question. I posted a generic hypothetical "would we draft Luke if he were available" Q, and I did it to discuss the purity of our BPA approach and to discuss whether it would still be a good option given that we've resigned Tulloch. All worthy topics of discussion. You skirted the entire issue by saying "he won't be there."

I realize that teams rank players differently, however, you're not addressing the issue, at all. Most "value charts" have Dre ranked 6th-16th on their board. I realize that some teams will have him valued differently, but he's not a 3-4 rush LB that doesn't fit someone's scheme, he doesn't have any character issues, and he doesn't have any physical or fundamental flaws that would remove him from a team's draft board. He generally fits most every teams defensive scheme. He's a nice, well rounded, complete player. My issue is that I can't see ANY team ranking him below 20, unless they're really really big on addressing need vs drafting talent (not taking a BPA approach).

I could go on one of your style diatribes of "don't you know how football works" as you like to do with everyone else, but I won't. The fact of the matter is teams trade up for players and trade down for picks all of the time, and most teams DO take a BPA approach. In fact, in recent years (at least the last 5-7) we especially seen this come true (GB drafting Aaron Rogers despite having Brett Favre), and more and more teams seem to be jumping on that bandwagon.

Personally, I just think that you're being presumptive in an unprofessional sense thinking that Dre will definitely be there when we pick. There are several scenarios and several situations that dictate him being gone when we pick, but again, you hate anyone questioning you and you lash out, just like you did last time.

And again with your lack of a "professional mindset" and lack of intelligence. It makes perfect sense to pass on an unqualified LT in round 1 to take a qualified OC. It's not a position thing, it's a TALENT thing. I apologize if anyone thinks I'm being harsh with my language, but posing the question exemplifies the lack of rational thought. "Why take a OC in rd. 1 when we're not taking a LT." I'm sorry, but that's just a silly question when, at our draft spot we could get a PROJECT LT or THE BEST PURE OC IN THE DRAFT. The fact that you can't understand that really does baffle me, and I'm not trying to be mean about it.

March 22nd, 2012, 4:14 pm

allenslions

Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 amPosts: 306

Re: rumor has it

This is the second time you have stooped to calling me names.I,m going to take the high ground and not address your posts anymore.and as for who the lions take in the draft we shall see in april.and for all the other guys who like to hear what I have to say.keep Android eye on. Vinny curry he is shooting up draft boards after his fantastic proday. I think he maybe a hard one to pass up at 23.we could always pick up trufant on a 1year deal.lol

March 22nd, 2012, 5:19 pm

dr1249

Stats Boy

Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 5:45 pmPosts: 18

Re: rumor has it

allenslions wrote:

This is the second time you have stooped to calling me names.I,m going to take the high ground and not address your posts anymore.and as for who the lions take in the draft we shall see in april.and for all the other guys who like to hear what I have to say.keep Android eye on. Vinny curry he is shooting up draft boards after his fantastic proday. I think he maybe a hard one to pass up at 23.we could always pick up trufant on a 1year deal.lol

What's up with the Corey Graham visit, serious interest? What's the word on Doug Martin? Saw you mention earlier they liked him after combine. Doubt he falls to their 2nd rounder, but they pull the trigger if that happens?

March 22nd, 2012, 5:50 pm

allenslions

Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 amPosts: 306

Re: rumor has it

There looking at him as camp compition and insurence in case we can move smith for a draft pick.as for martin there very interested but it depends on who,s there and what coach has the best argument in the warroom.

March 22nd, 2012, 6:29 pm

dr1249

Stats Boy

Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 5:45 pmPosts: 18

Re: rumor has it

allenslions wrote:

There looking at him as camp compition and insurence in case we can move smith for a draft pick.as for martin there very interested but it depends on who,s there and what coach has the best argument in the warroom.

Love Martin. Think that kid is gonna be a star.

March 22nd, 2012, 6:36 pm

allenslions

Varsity Captain

Joined: February 10th, 2011, 4:08 amPosts: 306

Re: rumor has it

I very much agree.his compact frame and power with just enough speed to rip one off anywhere on the field.kinda reminds me of emmitt.

March 22nd, 2012, 7:08 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: rumor has it

Allenslions - Is vinny curry normally on the right side or left? Would u believe he could replace kvb?

Allenslions - Is vinny curry normally on the right side or left? Would u believe he could replace kvb?

I realize you aren't asking me but Curry most frequently lined up at RDE for Marshall. I'm pretty sure I remember them moving him around in certain packages but RDE was his normal spot, same as Vanden Bosch.

_________________Proud member of the Contract Extension for Schwartz Fan Club.