Because, IMO, if you're an Oxbridge calibre mathematician, getting As at AH isn't very tough. Admittedly, the Oxford test isn't as bad as STEP, but given when it's sat, it's certainly something of a discriminator, as is the interview itself.

(Original post by Holly M Gray)
I agree with this - the point with that sentence was that there seem to be fewer academic students in the school I now go to in Scotland than there were in the school I went to in England.

As I said above, perhaps the issue simply is that I'm judging the entire Scottish system by one school - if so, sorry!

My school doesn't even offer Media Studies and only a couple of people did Hospitality. We had full advanced higher Maths, English and science classes. Judging an entire system based on one school is utterly meaningless.

(Original post by Holly M Gray)
I haven't done Advanced Highers yet, but they do seem to be a big jump in difficulty from Highers - I'm still prepping for my standard grades, so maybe I haven't been in school for long enough to judge these things. My argument may, I admit, have turned from "Scottish schools are geared towards underachievers" to "that one school in England is better than this one school in Scotland", haha.

You're doing Standard Grades?

Yeah, those things are easy as hell compared to Advanced Highers, though they seem like a big deal at the time (I made a huge deal out of them, so I'm not judging. But I can laugh about them now. I look at my brothers work and feel my skin matching the shade of the incredible hulk, I'm that jealous). Rather like GCSE's, from what I've been told. Wait till you get to Highers. They're a fair bit harder, they trip up a few people who did well at standard grade. Advanced Highers are tripping up most of us (except this annoying guy who's a supergenius and never has to work to understand things. I wish I had his brain, I need 3 A's). Grrrr, AH's are hell. DON'T DO AH MATHS! DON'T DO IT!

Take Higher German though, it's a riot.

Anyway, enough of this procrastinating, A/B level class tests wait for no man, woman or teenager.

(Original post by Slumpy)
I'm also not convinced by that. Perhaps sometimes less predictable.

Because, IMO, if you're an Oxbridge calibre mathematician, getting As at AH isn't very tough. Admittedly, the Oxford test isn't as bad as STEP, but given when it's sat, it's certainly something of a discriminator, as is the interview itself.

They're more difficult. Why do you think the standard offer is lower? Also read here.

If you're an Oxbridge calibre mathematician, it doesn't mean that you're naturally talented with everything. It doesn't even mean that you're naturally talented - you might just have put the work in. Not many people are naturally "gifted" with mathematics or other subjects, and it's certainly not easy getting 4 As at Advanced Higher; if it was, institutions like Oxford and Cambridge would be asking for it, rather than AAB/AA.

(Original post by aspirinpharmacist)
Advanced Highers are tripping up most of us (except this annoying guy who's a supergenius and never has to work to understand things. I wish I had his brain, I need 3 A's). Grrrr, AH's are hell. DON'T DO AH MATHS! DON'T DO IT!

The overwhelming majority of applicants, successful or no, will proceed to achieve AAA+ in their exams. If we assume that the interview is a better-than-random predictor of academic skill (it is) and is a major, if not the dominant, factor in acceptance (again, it is - because the applicants are otherwise very difficult to distinguish on paper) then it follows that applicants receiving an offer post-interview will broadly perform better than the rest of their peers. Given what I said at the outset about the results of those peers, Slumpy's conclusion follows.

Now, there's scope to argue the strength of this up and down, but I think it's foolish to dismiss it entirely. Why do you not think this?

Cambridge would be asking for it, rather than AAB/AA.

My Cambridge offer was A1 A1 A2 + a 1 in STEP II or III. This was high for that cycle, but is now fairly unremarkable. It's also worth noting that what Oxford say and what Oxford do (based on offers received by friends and colleagues) are not necessarily joined.

(Original post by JordanR)
They're more difficult. Why do you think the standard offer is lower? Also read here.

If you're an Oxbridge calibre mathematician, it doesn't mean that you're naturally talented with everything. It doesn't even mean that you're naturally talented - you might just have put the work in. Not many people are naturally "gifted" with mathematics or other subjects, and it's certainly not easy getting 4 As at Advanced Higher; if it was, institutions like Oxford and Cambridge would be asking for it, rather than AAB/AA.

I did teach myself all the calculus in the course (and more) over the Summer, to be fair. I'm a nerd.

I should point out; I took advanced highers. I did 4, and I taught one of those. As it was, my offer was ABB, with STEP. I have had significant exposure to A levels also however, and I don't believe they're much easier.
Really, imo, the main difference comes because every school in England is equipped to teach A levels, whereas this is much less the case in Scotland with AHs. But the breadth of course isn't that far apart.(I would grant that AH maths might probably matches an A level maths+AS FM in terms of pure stuff, but will have less applied bits).

(Original post by JordanR)
They're more difficult. Why do you think the standard offer is lower? Also read here.

If you're an Oxbridge calibre mathematician, it doesn't mean that you're naturally talented with everything. It doesn't even mean that you're naturally talented - you might just have put the work in. Not many people are naturally "gifted" with mathematics or other subjects, and it's certainly not easy getting 4 As at Advanced Higher; if it was, institutions like Oxford and Cambridge would be asking for it, rather than AAB/AA.

I did teach myself all the calculus in the course (and more) over the Summer, to be fair. I'm a nerd.

.......

All I know about it so far is that I am going to need a lot of past papers to handle this. Got full marks in my first NAB though. Can I have your brain? I need an A in Maths, the English uni's have no idea what they're asking of me. Guess you're going to apply for Maths at uni and as such are a super maths genius with a brain perfectly suited for these evil questions. I feel so demoralised by it all. I should've done English, I know now that is where my true talents lie. Analysing metaphors? Bring it on. Calculus? Yeah, imma need a hug.

I came out the Higher exam and cried. I got an A by some stroke of fortune, but I simply howled after the exam finished. My mum had to tell me to get a grip.

You have to love our quals, I'm doing 5 highers (English,Maths,Physics,History and Computing)

Every one expect computing is over subscribed.

I didn't the huge jump between sg and higher for physics but I do remember our maths teacher putting her hand to her knee saying sg's where there and then going upstairs to english and stopping and saying "before you ask its not here , its up the next flight of stairs , but I can't be bothered"

(Original post by TheUnbeliever)
The overwhelming majority of applicants, successful or no, will proceed to achieve AAA+ in their exams. If we assume that the interview is a better-than-random predictor of academic skill (it is) and is a major, if not the dominant, factor in acceptance (again, it is - because the applicants are otherwise very difficult to distinguish on paper) then it follows that applicants receiving an offer post-interview will broadly perform better than the rest of their peers. Given what I said at the outset about the results of those peers, Slumpy's conclusion follows.

Now, there's scope to argue the strength of this up and down, but I think it's foolish to dismiss it entirely. Why do you not think this?

My Cambridge offer was A1 A1 A2 + a 1 in STEP II or III. This was high for that cycle, but is now fairly unremarkable. It's also worth noting that what Oxford say and what Oxford do (based on offers received by friends and colleagues) are not necessarily joined.

I'm not denying that the people who apply for Oxbridge are capable of achieving AAA+, I'm just saying that it wasn't reasonable to say that it's going to be easy for anyone who's considering applying there to get AAAA at AH. I'm sure you'll back me up on that. I don't doubt that it's highly possible to achieve AAAA at AH, and that many who apply to Oxford/Cambridge do achieve such grades, but certainly not without difficulties (unless they are some kind of savant, and a pretty small percentage of the population are).

I know you don't have to be a genius to get an A at AH, but it's a lot of work for most people.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I know that offers are higher or lower depending on a lot of things, and I was just using that as an example to show that the Scottish system certainly isn't aimed towards underachievers.

(Original post by Slumpy)
I should point out; I took advanced highers. I did 4, and I taught one of those. As it was, my offer was ABB, with STEP. I have had significant exposure to A levels also however, and I don't believe they're much easier.

Really, imo, the main difference comes because every school in England is equipped to teach A levels, whereas this is much less the case in Scotland with AHs. But the breadth of course isn't that far apart.(I would grant that AH maths might probably matches an A level maths+AS FM in terms of pure stuff, but will have less applied bits).

I'm pretty sure you'll agree that it wasn't easy to get an A at AH, then. They're not that much easier, no, but they certainly are a little easier.

Yeah, that's also very true. My school can't afford to run an AH physics class, an AH chemistry class or an AH biology class, so we're self-teaching ourselves physics. We're also only getting three periods of English a week and four periods of maths a week (which is fine).

AH maths is also a teensy bit harder because you don't get any of the formulae given to you there! Not that remembering things is much of a challenge, anyway since you can usually derive things from simple things.

I know that A2 physics is a bit easier, especially with the maths involved. I know they don't have to do any calculus.

(Original post by Jelephant)
Heh heh, I really liked it too. I've been thinking of digging out my notes the next time I'm home

All I know about it so far is that I am going to need a lot of past papers to handle this. Got full marks in my first NAB though. Can I have your brain? I need an A in Maths, the English uni's have no idea what they're asking of me. Guess you're going to apply for Maths at uni and as such are a super maths genius with a brain perfectly suited for these evil questions. I feel so demoralised by it all. I should've done English, I know now that is where my true talents lie. Analysing metaphors? Bring it on. Calculus? Yeah, imma need a hug.

I came out the Higher exam and cried. I got an A by some stroke of fortune, but I simply howled after the exam finished. My mum had to tell me to get a grip.

Hahaha, super maths genius? Hell no. Far from it. I'm just enjoying it, and I'm finding it pretty easy as a result. If you can learn calculus with a smile it stays in better. I promise.

AH English for me is the worst thing I've ever done. The workload is ridiculous. Everyone in the class has just had stuff piled and piled onto them, and eventually it's going to be like buckaroo - someone's going to start kicking things everywhere. Oh well.

I didn't the huge jump between sg and higher for physics but I do remember our maths teacher putting her hand to her knee saying sg's where there and then going upstairs to english and stopping and saying "before you ask its not here , its up the next flight of stairs , but I can't be bothered"

One maths teacher takes the mick of us my calling us numpties

I didn't suffer too much from SG to Higher, but this year I'm struggling. It's so difficult. So I'm going to leave you all to discuss this while I wrestle with integration. *walks away muttering angrily*

(Original post by JordanR)
I'm just saying that it wasn't reasonable to say that it's going to be easy for anyone who's considering applying there to get AAAA at AH. I'm sure you'll back me up on that.

I will, but there's a subtle difference here: that was not what was said. What was said was that anyone who could succeed at interview stage wouldn't have much difficulty.

I don't doubt that it's highly possible to achieve AAAA at AH, and that many who apply to Oxford/Cambridge do achieve such grades, but certainly not without difficulties (unless they are some kind of savant, and a pretty small percentage of the population are).

I know you don't have to be a genius to get an A at AH, but it's a lot of work for most people.

I'm certainly no savant, nor am I anywhere near the brightest student in my year or course. I had no problem getting 4As. There was a moderate amount of work, or at least it seemed so at the time. University has dulled that feeling. I would concede that good teaching does make this substantially easier, it has to be said. I think the applications to Oxbridge are sufficiently self-selecting (broadly: the very clever from the state system, and those with probable wider support for subject from the independents, and often very driven - by self or family - in both cases) that Slumpy's claim is true.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I know that offers are higher or lower depending on a lot of things, and I was just using that as an example to show that the Scottish system certainly isn't aimed towards underachievers.

I agree that the Scottish system isn't aimed towards underachievers compared to elsewhere in the UK - I find it a laughable premise, which is why I've not bothered engaging it. I don't think that this is a great example, though.

(Original post by JordanR)
I'm pretty sure you'll agree that it wasn't easy to get an A at AH, then. They're not that much easier, no, but they certainly are a little easier.

Yeah, that's also very true. My school can't afford to run an AH physics class, an AH chemistry class or an AH biology class, so we're self-teaching ourselves physics. We're also only getting three periods of English a week and four periods of maths a week (which is fine).

AH maths is also a teensy bit harder because you don't get any of the formulae given to you there! Not that remembering things is much of a challenge, anyway since you can usually derive things from simple things.

I know that A2 physics is a bit easier, especially with the maths involved. I know they don't have to do any calculus.

For most people, no. But I think people who're going to get into Oxbridge for maths will certainly find maths, mechanics, maybe physics, pretty trivial.

No argument there-this is in my opinion the biggest single difference between the two qualifications' success rates. The next is people doing AHs, getting unconditionals, and just stopping work.

I think this is a bonus really. It might cause problems for some people(given the depth the A level formula books go into, it wouldn't surprise me), but it forces you to have some idea what's going on I think.

(Original post by TheUnbeliever)
I will, but there's a subtle difference here: that was not what was said. What was said was that anyone who could succeed at interview stage wouldn't have much difficulty.

I'm certainly no savant, nor am I anywhere near the brightest student in my year or course. I had no problem getting 4As. There was a moderate amount of work, or at least it seemed so at the time. University has dulled that feeling. I would concede that good teaching does make this substantially easier, it has to be said. I think the applications to Oxbridge are sufficiently self-selecting (broadly: the very clever from the state system, and those with probable wider support for subject from the independents, and often very driven - by self or family - in both cases) that Slumpy's claim is true.

I agree that the Scottish system isn't aimed towards underachievers compared to elsewhere in the UK - I find it a laughable premise, which is why I've not bothered engaging it. I don't think that this is a great example, though.