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I'm reminded of Murphy's First Law of Combat; "No plan survives the first shot." Based on a few years in the Marines and a few decades as a cop, I truly believe that if you are planning WHAT you will do in a fight, what you are truly planning is how to lose.

I remember one class when some "Ki " nut said to me "Sensei, what would you do if you were in a bar and someone hit you on the back of the head with a bottle?"
I replied "Probably fall down off my stool unconscious with a stupid grin on my face"
He didn't come back anymore

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
I remember one class when some "Ki " nut said to me "Sensei, what would you do if you were in a bar and someone hit you on the back of the head with a bottle?"
I replied "Probably fall down off my stool unconscious with a stupid grin on my face"
He didn't come back anymore

Did you send that idiot to my dojo ? I had a guy ask the very same question, word for word.........

When he asked what I would do if I was hit on the back of the head with a bottle ? I replied ""fall down ""......

Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
I remember one class when some "Ki " nut said to me "Sensei, what would you do if you were in a bar and someone hit you on the back of the head with a bottle?"
I replied "Probably fall down off my stool unconscious with a stupid grin on my face"
He didn't come back anymore

Did you send that idiot to my dojo ? I had a guy ask the very same question, word for word.........

When he asked what I would do if I was hit on the back of the head with a bottle ? I replied ""fall down ""......

Maybe its what daft people ask, they seem to think that if they don't meet some martial arts teacher with incredible powers they are not worth listening to......

I should have said "I would bounce it off my head with my incredible martial art kinki ki powers, or " I would "see" with my ki eyes and avoided it, looked at him with my piercing ki eyes to frighten him!!"
"They would run away in fear of my amazing powers!!"

I'm reminded of Murphy's First Law of Combat; "No plan survives the first shot." Based on a few years in the Marines and a few decades as a cop, I truly believe that if you are planning WHAT you will do in a fight, what you are truly planning is how to lose.

1. Throw beer into face of troublemaker.
2. Punch blinded troublemaker in face with mug. Straight punches regarded as best in case mug breaks to avoid getting cut. (Bottles or glasses without handles can shatter such that wielder could easily get cut.)
3. If mug breaks, use the broken handle to slash troublemaker and/or other unfriendlies if necessary.

The frightening bit - he was completely serious.

But I'm sure if you asked him what he would do if someone bashed him over the head with a bottle, he would say "Slump unconscious to floor and hope he doesn't get trampled in the ensuing melee".

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Shodan - Started Aikido training in 2008

The beer mug technique works and works well, but is usually considered felonious conduct and will probably get you locked up. That of course is entirely another issue only marginally related to the original discussion.

The beer mug technique works and works well, but is usually considered felonious conduct and will probably get you locked up. That of course is entirely another issue only marginally related to the original discussion.

The beer mug technique works and works well, but is usually considered felonious conduct and will probably get you locked up. That of course is entirely another issue only marginally related to the original discussion.

This week in the UK beer has gone up to £3 ($5) a pint, so you can't afford to throw it around, drink the beer first...

I recently have been "threatened" to a fight that I am not quite sure what it's about.
I don't feel like risking court and the ridiculousness that follows after a beating -
but as one of the earlier post mentioned, if you're stuck in a fight, let them do the work, step away, and watch them look ridiculous.

Though only one enemy calls you out
Be on your best guard.
To deal with one adversary in the spirit of facing ten thousand
Is the Way of the Warrior.

Or any other art for that matter. What answer are you looking for specifically Roger? I'm trying to understand where you are going with this.

I'm not looking for an answer. I was merely trying to point out how aikido could be combat ineffective in certain scenarios. Because there are other martial arts like Jujitsu, and self-defense systems like Krav Maga that are specifically designed to counter these types of attacks/situations.

I'm not looking for an answer. I was merely trying to point out how aikido could be combat ineffective in certain scenarios. Because there are other martial arts like Jujitsu, and self-defense systems like Krav Maga that are specifically designed to counter these types of attacks/situations.

I see. I practice both jujutsu and Krav Maga and I feel that the training I have received may help me in those situations if they were ever to occur. I say may because nothing is 100%. The key to it is not the art itself, but the training methodology. By methodology, I mean things like scenario training, aggressiveness training, reaction drills and training under extreme stress and/or fatigue. If these elements are present in your art, then I think you have a methodology that addresses the concerns you stated. I'm sure there may be some aikido schools that train in this fashion.

Roger, under your scenario, aikido probably won't be much of an aid. If you are yanked to the ground (and don't instantly regain your feet) you probably are going to lose unless you are a competent grappler of some sort. There is no martial art that applies to every possible situation and scenario. Yoseikan budo is the most comprehensive art I've seen (and I haven't seen them all), but probably isn't much good in defending against firearms. From a self defense perspective, the best and finest art is the one you are willing to invest sweat equity in. A qi gong instructor I know says "Doing a little something is better than doing a whole lot of nothing."

So you agree that aikido is not equiped to handle realistic combat situations, like grappling? That's the only point I was making. I mean it's a fine martial art, it's just that it wasn't developed for realistc combat situations. That's not to say you couldn't still use your Aikido skills and prevail in a street fight. It's just that it was really designed for the sloppy brawling aspects of street fighting.

No, that isn't what I'm saying. First, to be clear on terms, combat implies a military engagement to me, while what you are describing is a self-defense event. That said, the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program is somewhat based on aikido and Richard Heckler-Strozzi was instrumental in the program design. I currently train with a number of active duty Marines and they come to us as beginners who are very comfortable with basic technique and falling.

What I said and meant was that aikido would probably not be the best MA for the very narrow scenario you described, and secondly there is no perfect martial art for every scenario. Lastly I mentioned yoseikan budo as the most comprehensive art that I'm familiar with as it has striking, throwing, pins, weapons work and defense, and grappling as part of the formal curriculum. I doubt that it would work in every possible scenario either.

In a street situation you probably aren't going to face a skilled and trained martial artist. You will likely face a drunken lout or even an experienced street brawler. Aikido will work as well as most arts in those circumstances, better than some and not as well as others. It will not be perfect for every situation, any more than the katana was then or the firearm is today.

The findings of this survey are that less than half of fights go to the ground, and when they do, the person who is on the ground first is usually the loser. I would therefore expect my Aikido to help out quite a bit if somebody tried to pull guard on me in a rules-free context.