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She is fascinating, certainly. Over the course of two books, she was presented first as a quack, then a frightening magician, and at least where I am now (2/3 of the way through aSos), she now seems to be exactly what she claims to be: a conduit for a powerful god that has a will of his own. As I learn more about R'hllor and just what he is, that will of course teach me more about Melisandre's motives and the extent to which she can be trusted.

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Had this happened it would turned the tables for the Lannisters. How can Stannis trust her and her fires after what happened in the black water bay. (Her fires showed victory)

I think he lost the battle there because he didn't take her with him (isn't that what is said in the book? Feel free to correct me). So that would make Stannis think he really needs her power in every decision he makes and battle he fights. So Melisandre is giving him power on her terms not his. Which is to consult her and do things her way. Basically she's making him her bitch.

Quote from the book.

Quote

The flames. "If you can see the future in these flames, how is it that we burned upon the Blackwater? You gave my sons to the fire... my sons, my ship, my men, all burning... "

Melisandre shook her head. "You wrong me, onion knight. Those were no fires of mine. Had I been with you, your battle would have had a different ending. But His Grace was surrounded by unbelievers, and his pride proved stronger than his faith. His punishment was grievous, but he has learned from his mistake."

I'm not entirely sure if that was what you were asking, so if you meant something else and I just misread let me know.

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I feel that although she may appear to be loyal to Stannis, she most likely is serving her own purpose or her God's. Stannis is perhaps a tool through which she can achieve her goal?

Ch25 spoilers:

"The war?" asked Davos.

"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light."

If you take her at her word, she is very much serving her god. She believes there's an existential war between good and evil and that Stannis is the hero prophesied to win it. Her interest in the Iron Throne and Stannis' claim to kingship don't matter to her insofar as they don't contribute toward winning that war.

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"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light."

If you take her at her word, she is very much serving her god. She believes there's an existential war between good and evil and that Stannis is the hero prophesied to win it. Her interest in the Iron Throne and Stannis' claim to kingship don't matter to her insofar as they don't contribute toward winning that war.

Yes, it appears that way.

Spoiler

But if Stannis' claim to the throne doesn't matter to her why does she help him, by giving him the prophecies of the other Kings' deaths. Or is that just a display of her power? So she can persuade Stannis to make the sacrifice for the dragon? What do you think?

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But if Stannis' claim to the throne doesn't matter to her why does she help him, by giving him the prophecies of the other Kings' deaths. Or is that just a display of her power? So she can persuade Stannis to make the sacrifice for the dragon? What do you think?

Probably a combination of that and the idea that he'll be in a much better position to defeat the Great Other if he has the entire kingdom at his back, rather than just the relatively poor/weak lands he holds as Lord of Dragonstone.

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21 hours ago, Lifestream said:I think he lost the battle there because he didn't take her with him (isn't that what is said in the book? Feel free to correct me). So that would make Stannis think he really needs her power in every decision he makes and battle he fights. So Melisandre is giving him power on her terms not his. Which is to consult her and do things her way. Basically she's making him her bitch.

Quote from the book.

I'm not entirely sure if that was what you were asking, so if you meant something else and I just misread let me know.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to.

so basically she is trying to serve her own god, and to help herself in this process she is making use of Stannis Baratheon.

She shows him the futures of dead kings and claims that he is Azhor Ahai only to remain in Stannis's good books. Am I right?

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so basically she is trying to serve her own god, and to help herself in this process she is making use of Stannis Baratheon.

She shows him the futures of dead kings and claims that he is Azhor Ahai only to remain in Stannis's good books. Am I right?

she dosent care if Stannis wins or dies

I think she cares whether Stannis lives or dies cause she believes he is Azor Ahai and as The Drunkard above says, it would work in Melisandre's favor if Stannis were everyone's King cause that would mean more people to deal with the Others, but she does favor her own God over Stannis. It's just Stannis is the prophesized savior of some sort, but she doesn't want to let that get to Stannis head cause that could mean he stops fighting for her cause but fights for his own. That's why she only gives him what he wants/deserves when he does things her way. To humble him and show him she's the boss. It's not exactly Melisandre serving Stannis, but more likely Stannis serving Melisandre. Stannis is still important to her, that's how I understand it.

Stannis seems to be instrumental in her goals, at least from what we're told so far.

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I think she cares whether Stannis lives or dies cause she believes he is Azor Ahai and as The Drunkard above says, it would work in Melisandre's favor if Stannis were everyone's King cause that would mean more people to deal with the Others, but she does favor her own God over Stannis. It's just Stannis is the prophesized savior of some sort, but she doesn't want to let that get to Stannis head cause that could mean he stops fighting for her cause but fights for his own. That's why she only gives him what he wants/deserves when he does things her way. To humble him and show him she's the boss. It's not exactly Melisandre serving Stannis, but more likely Stannis serving Melisandre. Stannis is still important to her, that's how I understand it.

He's serving her about as much as she is serving him. They have an alliance for mutual benefit/goals. He's made it clear (in Davos I in ACOK that he is not a believer in any gods, but needs Melisandre's powers in order to gain the throne, since he did not have the numbers, support or popularity. Melinsandre, on her part, has made it clear (also openly talking to Davos) that she doesn't really care about who sits on the throne, any more than Stannis cares about gods, but she thinks Stannis will be instrumental in the war against the Great Other.

I don't know where you're getting the "wants to show him who's the boss" vibes. (Unless it's the show, where, they portrayed it that way, and generally changed the two characters and their dynamic a lot.)

23 hours ago, Nitisha said:

She convinced Stannis not to align with Robb Stark.

Had this happened it would have turned the tables for the Lannisters. How can Stannis trust her and her fires after what happened in the black water bay. (Her fires showed victory)

Did she? IIRC it was Stannis who was always against an alliance with Robb Stark. In his view, Robb was a traitor and separatist who wanted to take away half of his kingdom. Stannis would never ally with Robb unless Robb agreed to give up the title of King in the North. I don't think Melisandre had anything to do with that, or cared either way.

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He's serving her about as much as she is serving him. They have an alliance for mutual benefit/goals. He's made it clear (in Davos I in ACOK that he is not a believer in any gods, but needs Melisandre's powers in order to gain the throne, since he did not have the numbers, support or popularity. Melinsandre, on her part, has made it clear (also openly talking to Davos) that she doesn't really care about who sits on the throne, any more than Stannis cares about gods, but she thinks Stannis will be instrumental in the war against the Great Other.

I don't know where you're getting the "wants to show him who's the boss" vibes. (Unless it's the show, where, they portrayed it that way, and generally changed the two characters and their dynamic a lot.)

When I was reading it, it felt to me that Melisandre has the upper hand. She only gives Stannis the things that are "meant" to him when he acts according to her wishes. That's why I said she wants to show him who's the boss. As in, she's drawing a line where it says if you can meet those requirements you'll have it, otherwise no. Stannis learnt the hard way that he cannot do much to attain his goals without Melisandre's help. So it again seems to me that in a way he "submits" to Melisandre and out of their alliance he is coming out more weak physically. So again it seems that Melisandre is more in control of their whole dynamic (to me at least).

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As a character, she is fascinating. As a person, she's somewhat standoffish and I personally find her difficult to relate to. So, I like her as a character in that she furthers the plot and proves to be a wildcard when she wants to be, but as a person I do not like her very much, no. At least not in SoS.

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As a character, she is fascinating. As a person, she's somewhat standoffish and I personally find her difficult to relate to. So, I like her as a character in that she furthers the plot and proves to be a wildcard when she wants to be, but as a person I do not like her very much, no. At least in SoS.

I agree with this, as a character I am intrigued by her. As a person...well, I'm really not into fanatics. I don't think this will spoil anything, she does some amazing stuff but I have come to the conclusion that some of it is because the hand is quicker than the eye.

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I like her character. I wish I knew more about her though. She is not an evil character and follows the course she believes to the best of her ability. Sadly, her direction leads to evil actions... Human sacrifice is murder no matter how righteous the path.