Also in a kinda headcanon stuff, do you think Adam come from Atlas? it seen likey and I kinda headcanon is suit and color pallet is a inversion of Atlas: red and black to white and blue.

Mantle, I think, rather than Atlas. But it does seem likely, especially since Ilia was born into that life, and the pair have a lot of parallels that are lampshaded. The difference between them appears to be that Adam had his dreams crushed while Ilia's dreams were nurtured: Adam was tortured in hell, Ilia got to play princess in the City of Dreams.

I do like your comment about Adam's colour palette, although it's probably more the Schnee colours than Atlas in general.

Hazel got a card in RWBY Amity Arena that gives us some insight in to his character and to why he works with Salem also it tells us Gretchen was his twin sister.

The writers said the end of V5 only gives us a hint of the situation between Ozpin and Hazel. The Amity Card doesn't tell us anything V5 doesn't give us (except the twin information) — it merely uses more verbose, flowery language than the minimal dialogue did to indicate that Gretchen was probably The Idealist and Hazel was probably The Cynic.

It therefore sounds like there's still something about the situation that we don't know.

I kinda want him and Jaune to have a fight now due to their similar dispositions on Ozpin. It seems like he's more of a foil for him than Yang given that they both had someone they cared about be taken away from them by what they perceived to be Ozpin coaxing them into a Heroic Suicide.

Especially as Jaune seems to have come to terms with the situation. Indeed, V6 gave JNPR a means of coming to terms with the situation far better than RWBY has. Jaune is certainly in a far better place than Hazel.

The key difference is probably friends: Jaune has them, and they care about him. Hazel may have had no-one except Gretchen. Without her, he went off the deep end and crossed the Despair Event Horizon. Then Salem oozed her way into that Gretchen-shaped hole and did the rest of the damage.

I'm still expecting her to have used the deaths of her children to nurture Hazel's feelings — the method she has for manipulating him, shared loss of loved ones at Ozma's hands. It would explain why Hazel was throwing the deaths of children in Ozpin's face — Gretchen, Nora: the implication seemed to be students in general, but may have encompassed Ozma's own daughters, too. If Ozpin knew the implications, it would explain some of his OOC anger during the fight.

Qrow's eye twinkles with a sound effect after Winter strikes him like he's absorbed the damage - then he immediately retaliates with a strike that leaves a crater in the ground. What was up with that?

I've been wondering about that, too. I once managed to freeze frame it on a moment that made it look a tiny bit like a white bird that flashes into light and is gone again. But I don't know if I was seeing things.

In short, my theory is that Qrow's Semblance is 'luck' not 'bad luck', and he can tap into it every so often if his mood is right, but he doesn't realise it.

Qrow appears to have some limited control over his Semblance — he can't turn it off, but he can turn it up, and does so in fights.

However, his surname comes from Welsh legend, where the crow family had both negative and positive symbolis: murder, death, massacre, yes; but also divinity, protection, wisdom, and the soul. It's the broader meaning of the name 'Branwen' (and of her brother, Brân, who was known as Bendigeidfran — the Blessed Crow).

It's not just Welsh lore that has mixed symbolism for crows and ravens — Japanese, Chinese, Norse... plenty of cultures around the world do. People only tend to think of the negative lore, but the rest is there.

And I think that's the case with Qrow's Semblance, too.

Especially given Ozpin's warning to RNJR that unlocking a Semblance is the start of the journey, not the end — that it takes will, but that Semblances can be grown and developed in possibly surprising ways.

Of all things Winter could choose to summon she sends a flock of birds at Qrow.

They're Nevermores.

Apparently, they're both holding back in the fight even though they're fighting at a level above students. They're enjoying their fight with each other.

I also kinda wonder whether Oz is genuinely in denial about the whole "Salem is invincible" thing, he knows its true yes and when confronted with it by his followers crumbles, but perhaps he's not simply covering up that fact but outright refusing to accept it because to him that means his whole mission is hopeless, so he keeps futilely throwing away lives against Salem as if doing that will somehow change things.

I don't think it's the 'Salem's invincible' issue: even for the heroes, that wasn't the final straw. It was the news that Ozpin didn't have a plan for defeating Salem that was the problem — and that seems to be to be the real 'great and terrible secret': it's not the invincibility, it's that Ozpin... doesn't know what to do about it.

I mean, obviously the entire reveal is going to be emotional hell for Ozpin, given how personal and painful it is. Most people would be a mess having to go into that kind of past, and most people get the choice over how and when they'd reveal something like that — and that's mostly what we've seen in this show: when the kids do open up about the pain in their lives, they receive at least some acknowledgement, recognition or sympathy of that. None of them have acknowledged that in Ozpin's story. Not yet, anyway.

The problem is that the kids have made the obvious assumption about Ozpin's words. As Ozpin likely did with Jinn, they asked the wrong question, and so the answer doesn't mean what they think it means. They think Ozpin has no plans at all. Yet the show indicates differently: it's just that everyone thought Ozpin had plans to defeat Salem, when Ozpin's plans are completely different: to mitigate Salem's actions but not defeat her.

Meanwhile, he tries to get people to work together along the way.

Part of his problem is that he's missing the lesson the God of Light claimed his form of immortality was supposed to teach: he should never carry his burden alone.

His immortality ties him permanently into the human condition — every reincarnation introduces him anew to a human life, born in a human world, part of a human community. Every reincarnation shares the human condition with him all over again.

It's completely unlike Salem's form of immortality, which isolates her from humanity and makes her something different to the humans around her.

The reason that's become a problem appears to be the fact that Ozma has been hit by soul-crushing despair on at least two occasions (the loss of his family and the question he asked Jinn). He seems determined to protect everyone else from the sheer burden of the despair he feels, that it's become the source of his problems: he sees people react in horror to the truth and how their fear and helplessness leads them into regressive cycles (running away from their problems (Spring), fleeing back to a murderous life they abandoned (Raven), fleeing into the arms of the enemy (Leo)), and it reinforces his belief that he needs to protect people from the truth.

If that happens enough, you end up with someone who believes people don't have the capacity to handle the truth. He may believe in humanity's future potential, but he seems to believe in keeping them innocent, like children who aren't ready to hear what the grown-ups know.

And, so, by taking the burden on his shoulders alone, he denies the purpose of his form of immortality, isolates himself, and acts like the world he's saving doesn't include him — he may well feel like an imposter in this world; after all, his task is to save it for a future that will not be his own. However, since he and Salem are a part of this world, saving this world has to, in some manner, include saving them, too.

Anyway, this is getting longer than I wanted. My point was merely that it's not the 'Salem's invincible' issue that causes Ozpin's emotional collapse: Qrow emotionally collapsed in front of Ozpin's eyes, and that broke him in turn.

Also, given the mystery of Raven's relationship with Taiyang and Summer (and the ambiguity of the Volume 5 stinger), would we consider it is a Riddle for the Ages for now until their backstory is revealed?

Wyld: I dont know if schee, it seen they are based in Atlas so it could be the very same thing, I will said it also explain why Adam is so borderline militaristic and authoritarian: he learn by waching Atlas.

I also said because is design feel more like Atlas with color swap.

About Qrow, I dont know, it feel like a Cop up that he dosent have badk luck powers, it seen is power is to give good luck to himself at the expense of others which is why people comit mistake around him.

And Ozpin.....I will said he dosent belive anymore that he can save everything, and I feel you are placing too much emphasis on the idea he have a plan when in true, he is only stalling yhe result.

My guess would be we're just going to see generic cold ex talk, with scant or no mention of Summer. I don't think we're going to get an answer to just what happened back then, because the story we've heard is that Tai, within a year or so of his wife leaving him, decided to hook up with the woman they've both been risking death for since they were teenagers. There's a reason it's pretty much universal Fanon there was something poly going on; it's conceivable that's in the Universe Bible (in which case I don't think they'd come out with it for fear of alienating audience), but more likely they just didn't think it through, and since they didn't, won't explain it.

@Wyldchyld: I don't really see Ozpin's method of immortality as a good thing; relative to what was done to Salem, for something that wasn't intended as such*, it's a far crueler punishment than the garden variety Complete Immortality that Salem has, and inflicts a huge amount of collateral damage in the form of all the innocent lives that have been subsumed by Oz.
////
I think your pinning too much on Oz's description of how things work from volume 5; a lot of what he said about himself has already been shown to be a misrepresentation or lie of omission, and in the case of his immortality, what seems to be shown in 6-3 is that, while he may carry some of the other souls with him, the dominant personality is and always has been Ozma, he has to actively work at it to not simply overwrite his host's personalities completely, and that happens anyway over time despite his best efforts based on that brief scene where we see the original host staring out of a mirror wistfully, and that bit near the beginning of the series where Oz is giving a speech in a completely affectless voice and Yang remarks that it's "like he's not even there."

I also question whether Ozma's mission was even given to him in good faith to begin with; the way the God of Light waits until Ozma agrees to his deal before actually describing what it entails is also quite fishy, and combined with his brother's absence makes me think he has an ulterior motive.

It's perhaps the one thing that, while Cinder was unaware of, would have totally worked in her favor if she capitalized on it and she wouldn't even lift a finger to change up the narrative.

Like, Qrow practically fear-mongered people with that whole "Atlas would protect everyone" speech and even committing a literal act of terrorism. Intentionally attacking robots (that were there to protect people) for his political agenda (being pissed at Ironwood ratting out Ozpin and dragging Winter into things).

But then again, a case could be made that every bad thing that happened in RWBY starting from Volume 3 onwards can be pointed to Qrow's Semblance making him a walking Diabolus ex Machina.

He rationalized his actions with I Did What I Had to Do, and had nothing but the best intentions behind them, despite how morally dubious some of them may appear.

Contrast that to the, at the time, very shady Ozpin, and Ironwood came out looking morally superior since he wasn't trying to keep everything secret and act like there was no issue, or in other words, be inactive.

Now however, the roles are reversed.

Even if Ozpin is a bit inept in his planning and has a major Fatal Flaw when it comes to trusting people, leading to a self fulfilling prophecy where his fear of betrayal just leads people to betray him, he is now A Lighter Shade of Grey. He does want to help humanity, but he is still a tool of the Gods and it can be argued he did manipulate the main characters with half-truths, meaning he isn't purely light.

Ironwood however is edging closer to a Sanity Slippage. He's using his political power to all but instate martial law and create a military dictatorship. Even if his intentions are still good, he's ultimately causing problems in the long run, is coming across as unstable, and is being set up to be a Hero Antagonist. As such, he now falls under A Darker Shade of Grey.

Really, the moral highground switch is because we finally know what makes Ozpin tick.

Because he was so withdrawn and secretive while refusing to publicly act due to his mantra of "We can't cause a panic", he came across as less heroic than Ironwood, whose actions, while shortsighted and ultimately aiding Cinder in her goals, were done with the best of intentions, were largely meant to reassure people and stop the enemy, and clearly noted to be a result of his frustration with Ozpin's inaction.

Now that we know Ozpin is just a Broken Ace with severe trust issues and a lack of foresight, he loses the shady aspect, and becomes more favorably viewed compared to Ironwood who is depicted as going off the deep end, to the point that Jacques, a character depicted as jerkassAbusive Dad for Weiss with a Hair-Trigger Temper, is depicted as wary of him and telling him he needs to calm down. Ironwood's actions also become harder to swallow because his current action is reminiscent of various real life political figures that abused their powers to effectively put themselves in charge, since for all intents and purposes, Ironwood rules Atlas.* His two seats, one from being General and one from being Headmaster, means he occupies 2/5th's of the council. Any decision he wants to make or veto need only require he have the support of one of the other three members for it to be a majority rule, and back room dealings or political connections allow him to do so.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 8th 2019 at 2:35:25 PM

I wanted to watch While Rome Burns, yet I'm dumbfounded by everyone charging into the blaze.
The FNDM was a mistake

FergardStratoavisCaerbannog Represent
from Leiston Fortress
Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...

When you put it like that, the last thing I want Ironwood to go is off the deep end. I want him to remain as welcoming and reasonable as he can be. Obviously he's going to be rougher around the edges, but I don't want him to turn into a 1984-esque authoritarian. If that happens, there's a real possibility that the kids will decide that it's best to just follow Ozpin, even though they probably shouldn't (at least not without asking serious questions) and it flies in the face of their earlier hangups (Yang's in particular).

smart words go here

Tharkun140The Arch-Douchebag
Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?

Community

Tropes HQ

TVTropes is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org. Privacy Policy