Implications for Armenia of the New Russian-Turkish Partnership

YEREVAN (ArmInfo)–As Russian and Turkish leaders express their readiness to develop a strategic partnership, Armenian leaders are considering what the implications of such a partnership would mean to the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Nagorno Karabakh.

ARF Bureau Political Affairs Director Kiro Manoyan says Russia is already a strategic partner of Armenia. Statements by Moscow and Ankara saying that they are already strategic partners in practice should alarm Armenia, according to Manoyan.

Giro Manoyan: This consistently developing cooperation may grow into a strategic partnership. We must be ready for that and have specific alternative plans. However, there are no reasons for panic especially that President Medvedev’s statement on Nagorno Karabakh in Ankara was not what Erdogan expected him to say. Medvedev just declared that Moscow is ready to exert maximum efforts to achieve resolution and to hold consultation with Ankara on the given issue. This does not mean that Russia is ready to share all the approaches of Turkey to the Karabakh process. Prime Minister Putin reflected the real position of Russia in the statement during Erdogan’s visit to Moscow. Putin called it inexpedient linking the Armenian-Turkish relations and the Karabakh peace process.

ArmInfo: You emphasized the necessity of alternative plans for Armenia. Does it mean returning of the Republic to the complementary policy of former Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan?

G.M.: I do not mean searching for new alternatives. I mean preserving the old ones. I think that complementarity continues to be one of the key priorities of Armenia’s foreign policy. One thing is clear today: developing relations between Russia and Turkey will in no way result, at least at present, in Moscow’s supporting the United States’ calls for pressuring Armenia into establishing relations with Turkey. They in Moscow understand that good relations between Armenia and Turkey can in the long run have a negative effect on Russia’s positions in the region. Russia is not very much enthusiastic about the Armenian-Turkish rapprochement and will hardly be, even if it coordinates its positions with Ankara.

A.I.: Aliyev and Erdogan have recently sworn eternal allegiance and friendship once again. How much their oaths reflect the real state of the Azerbaijani-Turkish relations?

G.M.:The fact that Azerbaijan is actively cooperating with the forces opposing AKP (Justice and Development Party, Turkey’s ruling political force) is one more source of concern for its leader, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan in terms of the future of the Azeri-Turkish relations. Azeri-Turkish relations continue to be the way they have always been even though Aliyev looks to be offended because of the Armenian-Turkish process and has not visited Turkey for already a year despite continuous invitations from Ankara. Meanwhile, the Azeri-Turkish strategic cooperation, especially, in the military, is steadily developing despite certain problems. One of them is the failure of the Nabucco agreement. That is why, military and strategic cooperation of Turkey and Azerbaijan must make Armenia soberly evaluate the really existing Protocols with Turkey. As long as the Protocols exist, Turkey may executive all the dangerous provisions included in these documents. Therefore, Armenia must dissolve the Protocols considering the Azerbaijani-Turkish relations. The only way to do that is to recall the signatures from under the Protocols.

A.I.: Ahmed Davutoglu has recently made an interesting statement concerning the “rights and obligations with respect to Nakhichevan.” What could it be conditioned by in your opinion?

G.M.: The statement was made after the visit of Speaker of the Nakhichevani Parliament Vasif Talybov to Ankara. Although I see no obvious need for such a statement, I think it was more aimed against Armenia. It was an attempt to impose pressure upon us from the side of Nakhichevan as well. Davutoglu’s statement has no legal grounds. The reference to the Treaty of Kars in terms of “Turkey’s rights and obligations with respect to Nakhichevan” is an attempt to pressure Armenia, which does not recognize this treaty. Moreover, I think that Iran’s influence on Nakhichevan is much bigger than it might seem to be at first sight. I mean infrastructure and fuel. In these fields Nakhichevan is much more dependent on Iran than on Turkey. That’s why Ankara keeps showing its appetites with respect to Nakhichevan.

A.I.: Turkey’s appetites are not limited by Nakhichevan. Lately Turks are raring to co-chairmanship in the Minsk Group.

G.M.: Turkey’s aspiration for the OSCE MG co-chairmanship is not news. The news is that Turkey has got a lever to constantly express such desire as long as the Protocols are in circulation. I do not think that Turkey will ever become the OSCE Minsk Group co-chair-country, as neither Armenia nor the OSCE MG Co-Chairs welcome that. Turkey’s enmity towards Armenia and the continuing military cooperation with Azerbaijan do not contribute to fulfilling Ankara’s plans. Nevertheless, as long as Turkey is called to ratify the Protocols with Armenia, Ankara will, in its turn, highlight the necessity of settling the Karabakh conflict in favor of Azerbaijan. This is another reason for Armenia to resolve the Protocols. This will bring us back to the situation when Turkey was willing to speak of Karabakh but had no opportunity to do that.

A.I.: Much is currently spoken in Azerbaijan about solution of the Karabakh problem based on the so-called renewed Madrid principles. What is the point about, taking into account that their content is unknown?

G.M.: The renewed Madrid Principles were “born dead.” They could exist only if the two parties agreed using them as a basis for the Karabakh conflict resolving. However, Armenia did not approve the renewed principles. That is why, no one except Azerbaijan, speaks of these principles, even the co-chairs do not do that. The negotiations continue around the Madrid Principles well known to the public. Nevertheless, we are against these principles since they ignore a number of events starting 1988, in particular, the fact that the Karabakh people have expressed their free will regarding the life within Azerbaijan already two times. It was Azerbaijan that unleashed war against Karabakh and it is just absurd granting any territories to Azerbaijan in response to its aggression, though such is the essence of the Madrid Principles. The situation would be quite different but for Azerbaijan’s aggression to peaceful demands of the Karabakh people in 1988. Azerbaijan has got what it deserves.

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48 Comments

Thank you Giro jan that you let us know your views in the above report and talks with ArmInfo. How I agree with you that Armenia must resolve the Protocols and the sooner the better. Your last sentence that “Azerbaijan has got what it deserves” is more than true, isn’t it? Thank you for your insights and for sharing them with us.

thanks giro for all that info.however history shows us all that all our neighbours playing games with us .so i keep saying dont rely on no one anymore only rely on ourselves we can do it we can better ourselves.united we stand divided we fall thank you

Sadly, Armenia can never trust the West or Russia for that matter, we should have learned our lessons from the betrayals of Western powers and Russia who both abandoned western Armenia, and now in the process of abandoning perhaps Artsakh.

Can’t trust the west,you mean HiC and the 50/50 bar right?The Turks and the Russians are going to do whatever they want anyway.The only real reason for the Turk-Russian partnership is to do an end run around the UN.Ole Binke hasn’t figured that out yet.These two,Turks and Russians,are going to make sure Iran has a bomb one way or the other.So watch out all you American sailors in the gulf,remember what happened to the USS Liberty or the USS Stark.

Despite what you wannabee fedayees think, if Russia decided to “abandon” Armenia it will be the end of Armenia. That simple. Even if we had a million man-in-arms in Armenia today, without a Russian presence in the Caucasus Armenia wont be able to exist as a nation-state.

Despite what you wannabee diplomats think, Russia will not be abandoning Armenia in the foreseeable future. Unlike the West, Russia has had a long-term strategic interest in the South Caucasus. Historically, Armenia has been Russia’s gate keeper. As long as Muslims, Turks, Iranians and Western interests remain the region in question, Armenia will continue to play a vital role as Moscow’s foothold in the South Caucasus.

Despite you wannabee historians think, Russia never abandoned Armenia – the non-Russian Bolsheviks did. Prior to the Bolsheviks taking power in Russia, Russian-Armenian forces had succeeded in liberating large portions of Western Armenia. It’s time to stop blaming the Russian people for the evils committed by the non-Russian Bolsheviks.

Like I said, for better or for worst Armenia’s future is with Russia. Despite what high flying diasporans think today, Armenia exists today simply because Moscow needs Armenia to exist. From nuclear fuel shipments to affordable gas/oil supplies, from cheep/free modern armament deliveries to billions of dollars in investments, from diplomatic protection in the UN to border protection against Turkey – Russia is the ONLY option Armenia has in this world. When Moscow says jump, Armenians should be asking – how high? This is our reality today; accept it, live with it, try to extract some benefits from it. And before you people go to sleep to tonight say a little prayer for the Kremlin…

@ Aveties
Fallowing your logic we should conclude that there is no reason for Armenia to be independent. What is the reason if our existence depends from Kremlin? For sure the only strategic partner in the region and in the world for Armenia is Russia, but this doesn’t mean slavery. There are mutual interests between these to countries and that allows the two to be independent and at the same time together in a case of aggression against one of them. It should be regulated by a good diplomacy not a slavery.

Avedis Abush you should have your empty head examined, but I doubt any doctor can help you.Armenia exists today because of the sacrifices of people like General Antranik, General Njde &many others you know nothing about.But Armenia today is a Turkish-Soviet pigsty because of communist- faggot-napkins like thou. `When Moscow says jump,Armenians should ask how high?Dearest Abdal avedis you may be world-champion in high jumping, low falling, bending over and ass-licking , but ARMENIANS ARE NOT CIRCUS MONKEYS LIKE YOU and STOOGES like you don`t make a nation state -they make pigsties where hogs like you are happy for the free pigswill they get for toadying to the red turks.You can thank the soviets for killing the First Armenian Republic – today is May the 28th,you can lick their vodka-stinking asses for the killing of Gen.Njde,the whole elite of the land,for sending its best people to death in Siberia, for sacrificing 300 000 armenians for their selfish interests in WWII / out of less than a million in Soviet Armenia / for giving large parts of Armenia to Turkey and Azeristan.What is the benefit you extracted you creep of a faggot – a bottle of vodka and a tin of selyodka???Your place is at the red bricks at the Kremlin wall ,being the red brick you are.We shall have to pray for yer tiny little pezevenk of a soul not before we go to sleep but all day, all year long. BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!! WHY NOBODY SPEAKS OF THE R U S S I A N G E N O C I D E ???? The reds did more damage ,yet nobody talks of any recognition & compensation from the russians????

Edward, Unfortunately most Armenians in our Republic have been poisoned by the bloody Bolsheviks for 70 years and they adopted their drinking and their womanizing bad habits as well as corruption and the likes. My aunt went recently in there and she said that all the young generation of Armenians are Russian loving and Russian speaking young people. It’s both tragic and pathetic; but in 70 years thos bloody Bolsheviks really made a monkey out of our remnants of our nation. It’s very sad that the Diasporan Armenians are all over the place being assymilated in some other way and the Bolsheviks did a good job corrupting and pretty much emptying the Armenian good souls of our people in Armenia. Hopefully and prayerfully our Churches will in time try to mend those bad bad habits from our people and bring them to their better senses and better humanly habits.

I agree with you that because of the guidance and the arming of the people,it was the Armenian Revolutionary Federation-Tashnagtsoutyun who achieved in getting Armenia free right after the Genocide in Mayis 28, 1918. Today it’s the celebration of our first Republic of Armenia. Let’s thank our people then and the Armenian Revolutionary Federation who amazinly won the war against the Turkish empire right after the Armenian Genocide.

Like hell Avetis. If it wasn’t for Russians. Yeprem khan would have turned the tide on the turks and recaptured our country in the first world war. If it was’nt for our beloved russians General Baghramian would have captured our lands in the second world war. If it was’nt for our beloved russians Nakhitchevan would have been ours now. For God sakes we are here because the Turks with the help of Russians can not destroy us. Get this we need Russia out of you’re head. All we need is all Armenians to unite so we can take back our country. By saying Russians are the reason we are here you are insulting every brave Armenian that fought against the Turks in 1915. For GOD sakes we saved Russia against the Germans, they exist thank to our brave battalions in second world war that pincered the German forces from behind and crippled the german assault on our beloved russia.

I am not going to address the fallafel eating virtual fedayees like “Edward” and “Nairian” and respond to you instead. Please take a good look at Armenia’s geography, its lack of natural wealth, its size, its impotent diaspora, its neighbors, its economy, etc., and then talk to me about “good diplomacy”. Armenia needs Russia today as a matter of survival, while Russia needs Armenia merely for geostrategic calculations. And as far as the West is concerned, Armenia is simply an obstacle. So, you tell me, who needs who more? The bottom line is this – No Russia in the Caucasus means no Armenia there either.

Not the big talking diaspora but Moscow is the ONLY reason why Armenia can survive nation-state today in the Caucasus. This is our reality. We need to face it and attempt to somehow exploit it for our benefit. As a matter of fact, dependence on one empire or another has been our reality throughout much of our history. I don’t know about slavery, but small nations today, even big nations, are dependent on one superpower or another. Having said that, Armenia has been treated very well by its strategic partner in Moscow. Take into close consideration all that is made possible for us as a result of our relationship with Russia. However, this relationship naturally comes with a price.

Due to Armenia’s situation, it will be dependent on Russia for the foreseeable future. Had we Armenians been an intellectual bunch instead of genocide obsessed emotional basket cases, we would have used the unique opportunity our alliance with Russia provides us to strengthen our republic. But seeing the utter decay of Armenians throughout the diaspora and even amongst those who call themselves “nationalists,” I don’t have much hope.

And I am willing to bet that those who complain about the Russification of Armenian youth in Armenia (which is BS by the way) are the same ones who are either hopelessly Americanized or Ottomanized like our “pezevenk” talking closet Turkophile called Edward.

Avetis, if you are right, then those 2.5 million Armenian-Russians have a lot to do for motherland Armenia..
same as those American Jews, who are doing for Israel..
Armenians in Russia should develop stronger partnership with Russian Federation in every aspect, such as in military and commerce, the way we had during USSR and Tsarist Russia……
Co-operation between Western Armenians and Russian Armenians is a “must” for the success and Independence of Armenian Republic, and hope to see a stronger, unified and stable Armenia in Caucasus, politically, economically and militarily..
In the mean while, dear Avetis, we can not forget our “Genocide” for the sake of either Russians or Americans…The memories of Genocide will remain in the heart and sole of every Armenian in this unfaithful world of today!!
Let’s pray for the UNITY of all Armenians of the world………

From industry to mass media, from art and music to the military, from politics to finance, Armenians are well represented, disproportionally represented, in all sectors of Russian society. We Armenians have a real opportunity to be in Russia what Jews are in America, but our closed-circuit tribal mentalities as well as our Russophobic diaspora in the West and the Middle East is keeping us from realizing this potential. Our relationship with Russia today is giving us opportunities we have not had in a thousand years and yet we have hysterical clowns amongst us who express more hate towards Russians than they do towards Turks. No one is saying we should forget about the genocide. As a matter of fact, the Russian Duma recognize the Armenian Genocide, and Russian officials from Putin to Medvedev have visited the genocide memorial in Yerevan.

However, we should not let the diaspora’s obsessions about the genocide get in the way of Armenia’s progress.

Avetis,
Do you think that Armenia is progressing? I don’t, in fact I think Armenia is in deep sh**t. Armenian genocide isn’t only should be remembered but we should do everything to make it recognized by every country in the world and make turkey to pay for its crime.
What kind of progress you talk about if Armenian government thinks that Armenian language is not an educational language. This is not a progress but fall of a nation and country.
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I should say that there are three way of thinking in Armenia. One thinking is similar as yours, which is to leave under others hand. The problem with this is that from a big Armenia now we have very, very small Armenia (Մի բուռ Հայաստան).
–
The second way of thinking is that there are some people that in the name of patriotism dividing (Diasporas, Eastern Armenians, Arsaxh adn Javaxhq). I can’t understand people who speak laud about patriotism and are very quit about Armenian language. The language that keeps as Armenians with our memory.
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And finally the third way of thinking that in percentage very small. This group recognize ONLY ONE ARMENIA AND ONE NATION. For this group, the the only existence of Armenia and its people is idea of independent Armenia. There for my friend, even though you presented some valid arguments but I can’t agree with you.

Russia takes it for granted that Armenia will never ever go against Russia, therefore the Russians are confident that, at the end of the day, they may “play” with Armenia as they wish. Armenia also cannot trust the Americans to counter balance Russian domination. What’s left? CHINA!!! I think the Armenian leadership should really consider to cosy-up, REALLY cosy-up with the Chinese. Just think of the Jolt the Russians AND the Americans will feel if Armenia offer a military base for the Chinese in Armenia. Russians will not “dismiss” the Chinese as a week adversary and the Turks AND NATO would S*it in their pants with China monitoring them just a breath away. Why not?

Avedis Asshole, do you think people are pezevenks if they don`t sell out to red creeps like you did?You are not going to address me? I`m going to hang my head in shame! Of course you wont as you have nothing to say but cheap pro-russian gibberish.The `big talking` diaspora` sends millions of $$$$ to Armenia every year -90%of it goes into the coffers of the red-mafia types like thou-this is your russian style `de`mock`racy.Can you tell the `high flying ,big talking ,genocide-obsessed diasporians` like me how many hundreds of millions` worth of arms your mother russia sells turkey each year?Maybe you exploit this opportunity very well?If there is no Russia in the Caucasus there will be democracy and faggots like thou will have to find new asses to lick.Russia is the ana-vatan mother for hodadz creeps like you – for the rest of us she is a stepmother-bitch, and you are just a cheap oriental KINTO.

Armenians are to Russians the same as Jews are to Americans? Maybe the Turks were more successful than they thought.Avedis is seeing things in very cold but real political light,and hes not that far off the mark.In the mean time Edward our people were subjected to the same ugly intolerence you voice in some of your postings so knock it off.

Despite our dreams about freedom and democracy, world is divided up geopolitically by the several superpowers that current run the global order. America has its sphere of influences ranging from the drug cartels of south America to the petty dictatorships of Arabia. Russia has her sphere, primarily the former Soviet states. China has hers, mainly Taiwan, Tibet and North Korea. Russia and China are close partners, economically, politically and militarily. Moreover, Russia and China fear the political/economic/military machinations of the West. As a result, China and Russia will not be stepping on each others toes, at least for the foreseeable future. And since Russia chased away the West from the Caucasus in 2008, Armenia’s future was fully secured by Moscow. Armenia has no choice but staying with Russia. Like I said, had we not been a bunch of self-destructive peasants we would be looking to get active in Russia like Jews get active in America.

Sadly, a vast majority of Armenians do not understand politics, nor do they understand the advantages and disadvantages of the embattled, landlocked, tiny and impoverished Armenian state. And a significant percent of us Armenian today are Arabized/Ottomanized hysterical lunatics like effendi Edward…

Quite often you post a comment on this web site throwing mud on ARF and Diasporan Armenians, without having any idea as what ARF is or what it has done for Armenia and specially for Diaspora. You can worship Russia for ever, however, you didn’t live in Diaspora, thus you don’t know. If the efforts of ARF were not in place during 1920-1990s, we would have been wiped off of our Armenian identity like some Armenians in Moscow who today speak Russian with their children at home. I have seen this many times. During those 70 years when the Armenians in homeland under the Soviet iron feast did their best to rebuild our country (and we should respect them), we in Diaspora also did our best to preserve our Armenian identity so that one day we can reclaim the land that we lost brutally in early 1900s.

The issue of Genocide is on our shoulders and only bustard Armenians like the oligarchs try to sweep it under the rug.

Your comments are exactly what Turks (grandchildren of Hayutyan Dahijner) try to achieve by creating division among us.

Respect all Armenians and their views and you will be respected likewise.

Dear Avetis,
One more thing that you have to take into consideration, Armenia wouldn’t be an independent nation, If they were not victorious during Sardarabad war, I am sure you are fully aware of that, there were no Russians and no Americans, there were only bunch of brave Armenians who fought for independent of Armenia..
if Turks would have won that war, there would be no Armenia…Russians were so weak at that time, that easily gave up our sacrifice lands, such as Westarn Armenia and then Karabakh and Nakhijevan..
The world has been changed and Armenian Nation become smarter and educated…we are not going to fight against either Russians or Americans…our goal to make Armenia stronger and get rid of corruption
and save Armenia from another Turkic attack, especially Artsakh independent..the best for Armenia’s future we should be first UNITED under the name of republic of Armenia, then you will see how stronger we will become, politically, economically and geographically.. please one more thing…no Armenian has right to downplay the other Armenians who were born in Middle East or in Europe or Russian Federation ..we all are children of God and we all wants stronger and beautiful Armenia for all Armenians of the world..

The point you are missing is that Armenia takes (should take) the priority, not the diaspora. Another point you are missing is that the diaspora needs to better understand Armenia, its political predicaments, its people, its needs and not the other way around. I see and hear a lot of absurd comments by so-called “ARF nationalists” about Armenia and its people. I see and hear suicidal sentiments with regards to Armenia’s vital (life and death) alliance to Russia. Take a close look at effendi Edwards seething hate, Russophobia, political immaturity and mental irrationality. These types of “nationalists” in our nation are more damaging to Armenia than any Turk. Having said that, I’ll take a “Russified” Armenian over a Ottomanized/Arabized/Americanized primitive peasant any day.

The fact of the matter is, the diaspora is dying a slow and ugly death, take a close look around you. As long as it continues to exist it needs to serve the Armenian republic.

And guess what? For your information, I’m a diasporan, and I have been an ARF-er.

Dorogoi tovarish avedis aboush araradz, esli hotite ya budu pisat Vam na yazike vashih politcomisariah, tolyko poprosite, comrade blyad.Deeyuh avedis djan, did you fall on yer ass while unsuccessfuly trying to come with an empty bottle of vodka in it??? Thats no reason to talk turkey on Internet.So,own up, cut the crap and do something useful – wash yer reddish f_ _ k face before the 7th of November,with a soap not with leftover vodka from the 9th of May raz-gulyai with yer gay KGB / FSB buddies.That hangover may be the reason for your half-assed aboushutiun hosel,but we see you`re rarely sober as your owners pay you in samogon vodka! Be capeful avedis,tsavt arnem,because each year about 100 000 russians die from self-made vodka not having money to buy the real thing in great democratic oil & gaz-rich Mother Russia,the Ana-watan mother of all red crooks like thou.Don`t criticize armenians for being `self-destructive peasants`,any peasant has more honour than hogs like you – but you cant get that because you`ve sold your honour long long ago.The russkies may give you samogon vodka for sexual services rendered,but they have a word for cunts like you -SVOLOCH.

Why do you automatically assuming that I negate or disregard what our heroic people did at the time. I am talking about modern issues, modern problems… In my opinion, the diaspora’s lack of understanding of Armenia is dangerous. Also, our lack of understand and appreciation of Armenia’s alliance with Russia is ‘extremely’ dangerous because nothing would please our numerous enemies more than breaking Armenia away from Russia. The only thing standing between Baku/Ankara and their prize in the Caucasus is Moscow. Without Russia not even a million diasporans-in-arms would be able to stop the Caucasus from turning into a Turkic-Islamic cesspool. A million diasporans in arms? What a ridiculas thought! At the most difficult juncture of our struggle against Azerbaijan in the early 1990s – less than a 100 diasporans appeared to fight the Turks. When you people realize all this you will better understand Armenia’s plight.

Moreover, Russia was not weak in 1918 or 1921 – it was non-existent. The Bolshevik revolution put an end to the Russian Empire. And for you information, thousands of Tsarist Russians fought side-by-side with Armenians at Sartarapat…

I don’t like when you label Edward as Efendi Edward. Edward is an Armenian. he is one of us, and I respect him. I shall never call any Armenian as efendi. Your comments are insulting and not appropriate, if you want to make a point. All the commentators above are Armenian and they all care about both homeland and diaspora. I have three questions to you, before any further comments. I appreciate your feedback.

1)- What is your political affiliation?
2)- Which political party do you think cares about both Armenia and Diaspora and does its best to prevent the “slow death” which you have attributed to Diaspora?
3)- Were you born and raised in Armenia or in Diaspora?

Avetis,
Diasporans are Armenians as any good Armenian. What you are doing now is against to our nation’s interests. You are dividing them among good and bad Armenians, please stop it.
As for Russia, as I said they are our alliance and that doesn’t mean we should be slaves of Russia. We won our independence not with the help of Russia but Sardarapat. So do not tie Russia on our neck. You see the things in a very wrong way as you don’t realize that independence is an absolute value and it is the only guaranty for our nation to live, create and progress. According to your logic Aram Manukian and all our brave leaders were insane for fighting against turks. I have heard some people’s similar ideas as yours during Artsaxh libaration, but as you can see we won the war.
And lastly, when you say “1990s – less than a 100 diasporans appeared to fight the Turks” You should realize that this is not an argument. If these people are not directly in the war zone, than they cannot be part of it 100%. For them to be part of it they should live in Armenia. Making these people go and live in Armenia with their families is the job of Armenian government. Armenian government is falling in many things, not counting the oligopolies that they have created that forces people to leave their country.
Your idea of giving up our independence and pushing the same line as the traitors among the Armenian government (we are responsible for only 3 million Armenians) is ridicules. No one gives up their independence that was won by a war and fight.
You say you were from ARF. I would ask you this, what kind of ARF member were you? Your ideas are not in agreement with ARF ideology.
And this is to ARF
As I said before and will say it now, ARF must get rid of fake and careerist members.

Dear Arman, I am in agreement with your posts above. Thank you for saying the truth that it was our people and our ARF who at the time of our first independence were 99% in agreement with the ARF, who won the war against the sick man of Europe – Turkey. They didn’t win their independence with the help of Russia, USA or France; but they did it with their own might and blood. We should eternally bow to the ARF and the people of Armenia, because of them today we have that little land that is called our Republic of Armenia. I also agree with your statement, which I said it myself just about two weeks ago and have put it on Facebook, that we should get closer to China, rather than Russia, USA or anyone else. China must be the one that we should get closer to. Russia is playing with us as he darn pleases and USA is constantly betraying us, same as our number one enemies the Turks and the Azeris. China should be our ultimate answer, yes.

Your other statement is also very valid that we must never ever separate our people by saying the Diasporans are bad and the people in our Republic are good and so forth. We are the same people; but if we see some faults then we should try to mend it TOGETHER, but never separate one another. I also see numerous faults in our Representatives in our Motherland and the Oligarchs who aimlessly and selfishly think about their own bulgin pockets and are not interested for the continuation of our sovereignty of both Armenia and Artsakh. To me as well as yourself, I don’t think of it as Armenia proper, Artsakh and or Javakh as separate entities BUT ARE ONE. They are all the same country to me – Armenia. Western Armenia and Eastern Armenia are also Armenia. They are all the same cause for us Armenians all over the world, Diasporans and the people in our Republic alike. However, when we see some wrong thinkings and wrong doings be it amongst our people and people in authority in our Republic or even on our commentary speakers right in here, such as Avetis or others, then we have to correct them, educate them and make their thinking processes and actions better. It is the duty of every Armenian who thinks and breaths Armenian to do this.

21th century Armenian diplomacy is not much different than 10th century Armenian diplomacy. – – –

During the 8th to 10th centuries, one fundamental point of Byzantine diplomacy emerges very clearly, that on no account could the Kingdom of Armenia be allowed to fall into rival Arab or Persian hands. Armenia’s independence was so essential to preserve regardless of the difficulties in dealing with it were. – – –

Medieval Armenia was bounded on the west by the Byzantium Empire, on the south by the Arabia’s Caliphate of Baghdad, and to the east by the Persian Empire. Armenia’s foreign policy conduct was complimentarian to the three neighboring superpowers of the era. In the interest of achieving peace – a state alien to Armenians – Armenia carefully balanced the influences of its rival neighbors. This foreign policy resulted in the golden age; Armenia’s capital city Ani flourished; Armenia became a populous and prosperous nation, exerting political and economic influence over surrounding states and nations. Its existence depended on these rival empires desiring an independent Kingdom of Armenia as a buffer state, and Armenia itself being strong enough to maintain this status. – – –

Fast forward to the 21st century, replace Arabia with the Russian Federation; replace the Byzantium Empire with Western powers; and the Persian Empire with the modern state of Iran.

Dear Berge,
after reading your message I came up to my sober understanding, that we Armenians had enough of the past..and I wonder why we have lost our glory of the past..and I wonder why when 2 or 3 of us get together all of sudden we create 3 different political forces…why we can not learn from our sad past history???when we finally can stick together and solve our differences between us!
Honestly, I don’t care about Russians…I don’t care about Americans…I don’t care about Chinese and I don’t care about Islamic world ,Turkey and Iran…they don’t make me happy and they don’t feel what I feel about Armenia and her beauty…it is time for all of us to grow up and stop hurting each others, for self satisfaction.. is this not one of the reason why we have lost our glory of the past??

Dear Avetis, Edward, John, Arman, vache, Nairian, and …….it is time to stay together nobody knows what is wrong with us but YOU!!!
This is why when our young poet Yegheshe Charents told to his beloved people “Armenians” during Stalin’s USSR before his death…”oh you Armenians your survival is in you unity” he made his secrets through an ordinary Armenian poem, where intellectuals found his message way before KGB, and then was tool late the message was gone through Armenian population…

One comment on Ani, the old capital of Armenia (Bagratuniats Kingdom). Ani was famous for having 1001 churches. If the king of the time had built a garison wall around Ani (instead of 1001 churches), Ani wouldn’t have fallen to invading seljuks. The fall of Ani was the opening of our “voghbergutyun”, which lasted nearly 900-1000 years until May 1918, where with the heroic actions of all Armenians together we managed to avoid total anihilation. Aram Manookian, Zoravar Dro, General Movses Silikian, Daniel and Boghos Beg Pirumians, General Kristapor Araratian, Gargein Njdeh, and General Tomas Nazarbegian were the primary military and political leaders of those heroic war. Their names should be remembered forever. If you get a chance to visit Sardarapat, you will realize for the first time as what does it mean to be an Armenian. You will also realize that how unappreciative some of the soviet leaders and unfortunately some our own fellow countrymen (like Avetis) have been towards ARF.

Dear eshuzavag avedis,I know my ancestry very well, I also know yours.Now this sounds like a joke, but it isn`t:President Gas-Putin once asked radio Yerevan if it was possible for two men to conceive a child without the help of a woman. No,said the radio, but in Turkey they are experimenting on this all the time.How wrong they were-in Mongolia they did it with two gay camels and each of them gave birth to a child:one of them was Robert and if you have a mirror in yer hut you can see the other.I dont hate you Avedis arshin malalan,I love you-the world would be a very boring place without the likes of you and robbert and many others like you – any product of turkish sperm is superiour to the great minds of eshuzavags like you. ARMAN – avedis is a member of aRF-that is the avedis Revolutionary -Federation.NAIRIAN ,BERGE , I agree 100%with you. GRISH, I have my opinion on what`s right or wrong & I`m not forcing it on anyone.Charents was right-many lesser minds have said that but nobody listens.Charents also did a lot of stalinist propaganda which condemned many to their death before becoming logically the next victim of Stalin.

I know the ARF very well. I am not anti-ARF. The ARF has a great history. I am simply anti self-destructive morons who claim to be nationalists. And there are many of these types in ARF circles these days. My problem is not the party, although the party has been acting pathetic as of late. But stop treating the ARF as some sacred cow. The organization is made up of people, and people come in all types. And it does not matter what you have done in the past. What are you doing lately?

The newly created Armenian republic in 1918 fought against the Turks because they ‘had’ to fight. They had no choice but to fight, for not doing so would have been certain death for the entire nation. This is an important factor that goes over peoples heads. Sardarapat was a miracle. So don’t make it sound as if the nation newly born in blood with less than a million people (more than half of whom are starving/sickly genocide survivors), a nation with no economy, no allies, no funds, no resources, no arms could effectively fight off its enemies for any given length of time. The leadership of the first republic were sober realists, not fanatical freaks. Like I said, Sardarapat was a miracle at the time, a one time thing that allowed Armenians to establish a republic upon which the Soviet republic and the modern state were later founded.

Regarding Artsakh: Without the stubborn warrior mentality of Artsakhtsis and Russian support you today along with the ARF would be lamenting the loss of Artsakh as well, if not also portions of Armenia.

And its getting quite silly blaming our politicians for all our flaws. We Armenians have a lot of flaws, not the least of which are otaramolutiun, tribal mentalities, lawlessness, disorganized, undisciplined, lack of farsightedness, lack of true nationalism, too emotional. Our politicians are an accurate reflection of our people.

Dear Fellow Armenians. There are very correct points raised by every body. As per usual we are all right. There is no stupid Armenian, that is both a blessing and curse as we would never sing the same tune unless our survival is in stake. I agree Russia is a regional power we can not avoid. But we must realise that it’s rulling class the once Jewish bolshevics are now Jewish Oligarths, captains of industry. A mafia that the old world champion Kasparof unearthed and is still fighting. These rulling class of Russia absolutely hate Armenians, after all we have been enemies since Haig and Bell. We are the state of Haig and the Jews are the followers of Haigs brother Bell. only a revolution or decapitation of this powerfull Mafia could turn Russia into our ally.

Yes, Avedis, our politicians reflect people like you and you forgot to mention the main flaw of the armenians-AVEDISUTIUN- taking too much russified `armenians a time in your bed, or under it.We call them russahaier and avedis please dont try to russify the `hopelessly americanized self-destructing peasants` just tell them what lazy ARF has to do – short of joining the Russian communist party in the biggest party bed in the world in sacred Moss-cow.

I read your article and I saw many many points which reflects my personal experience in different forums.

Dashnaktsutyun is not just a political party with a number of registered members. It is a reflection of the genuine aspirations of our nation to restore justice and sovereignty to what has been unfairly taken away from us in the most brutal manner.

There are many Armenians who in their hearts and minds are true Dashnaktsakan, without themselves realizing it. This is true for Armenians living both in Armenia and in Diaspora. I have come across many of such people and felt very humbled. ARF needs to make sure that opportunist individuals are not admitted to their ranks, as they not only hurt ARF but also cause setbacks to our “azgayin azatagrakan paikar”.

When such opportunist individuals infiltrate ARF, the crooked oligarchs and the grandchildren of “hayutyan dahijner” are the greatest beneficiaries of such situations.

Edward,
Unfortunately or fortunately I can see in Avetis something that I can’t see it in you. He thinks in Armenian compared to you. All your arguments are around Russia and America. You do not represent the real Armenian interests. This is my opinion about you, sorry if it is too harsh for you but I can’t be silent about the truth.

Dear Avetis,
I am not an ARF member either, but I fully agree with Vacheh and the position of ARF for Armenia and Armenians issues in general..and I do not look into ARF for their weaknesses .. no person is holy and nobody is better than…I look at ARF as a nationalistic party which is good for Armenian population and their progress…and I am sure those Armenians who are living in Russia are fully aware of RF official position regards Turkey, Caucasus and Armenia, as you mentioned before…and I can understand Edward’s point perfectly…he simply do not trust Russians..and there is nothing wrong..

Avedis, `my arguments are about America & Russia not Armenia` – my arguments are about the choices armenians make – jumpig monkey style the avedis way,or going to America or somewhere else far away from the russians.I am not pro-american .`Democracy has many faults and imperfections,its just better than all other political systems being tried here and there from time to time`.Yes, Grish, you cant trust the russians, you cant the americans or the turks either, unfortunately you cant trust many armenians, but that`s not the point.The point was what to do when the long-term interests of turkey,america,and now russia coincide?ARF G.Manoyan says complementarity of foreign policy, now what does that mean, Arman?Should we monkey jump in front of them all?Please Arman, tell me how to represent the real armenian interests?

I appreciate your comments and points of view. I just would like to make another point that concerns me by seeing the situation in Armenia and following up on Erdogan’s frequent insults on us. I read a book recently about the Pan-Turkism in the late 20-th and 21st century. If we think that Turkey (and his cousin Azerbaijan) are civilized members of world community, we would be darn wrong. Pan-Turkism is as alive as it was 100-110 years ago. Their short term goal is to capture Zangezoor, as their current main focus.

No Armenian in the world can deny that currently our protection is heavily dependent on Russia’s presence in Armenia. We thank Russian people and we hope to maintain very good relations with them based on mutual respect and mutual interests (not slavery or us worshiping them as Edward rightly mentions). Beside Russia, no one is against having good and friendly relations with US, UK, France, Germany, etc., again based on the mutual respect and mutual interests. The question comes as what about 50-100 years down the line? Will Russia be always around to protect us? Shouldn’t we use the current opportunity to build our own strengths, especially our military and economical strength?

Edward,
Armenia is a landlocked country and have no access to sea…this is a major blow toward Armenian security and statehood…we are surrounded with sea of Muslim nations, where Russians guards are protecting Armenia’s border…Russia internally have problems with North Caucasus Muslim tribes, where constantly terrorizing RF interests..Armenia is the only ally in Caucasus, where politically fit with Russians interest..Azerbaijan would attack Armenia and Artsakh with the help of Turkey form all directions, if they were no Russians present, like Vacheh said their dream is to capture Zangezour region…where Turkey can put up their glory of the past “Ottomans”…Armenia is an obstacle for their dream and Russians are fully aware of that too..I like to see Armenia become a “power house” in South Caucasus region militarily and economically..this is the only way we can turn those Turks away from Armenian territories…a united Armenia is the only answer for all Armenians of the world…….

History proved itself that depending and taking refuge under one super power one day and then changing to another makes our reality more and more painfull and leads us to destruction. The nakarars proved this by making aliance with another rule and working against each other by sacrificing our land, people, resources in order to gain leadership and dominate. Finally in 1915 after two thousand years of somehow maintaining our status in the region, the timing and the political cercumstances were appropriate and agaist us for the enemy to execute the long sought plan of deportation and taking over the lands our ancestors lived for thousand of years. This happend on the watch of so called “great” nations like Russia, England, France, U.S..etc.. Today “hayers” we still fight each other and hold one great power in favor of another because of some ill driven sentiment or “temporory” plitical advantage. These so called “big powers” had always benefited from our own stupid mentality and used us againt each other to get the most for their own good. I do not not have the intention of attacking any of the individuals who expressed their “honest” opinion above because it will not serve any pupose, but I feel hopeless and ripped off my identity when I hear expressions like (Ottomanized/Arabized/Americanized primitive peasant). I was born and raised in middle east and and studied in Armenia then moved to America so I know exactly these folks are tying make up. I have never come across someone who addressed our people and the remnants of our very last people who were forced out of their land and existed somewhere out of harsh cercustances with aexpressions like that. Those who can make such statements cannot be one of us.

Brain-dead “nationalists” like efendi Edward are more dangerous to the interests of the Armenian state than any Turk. As a matter of fact, as long as we tolerate human-garbage like him, Armenia will forever flirt with annihilation. It’s amazing watching these low lives talk big without having any understanding of the political world they live in (typical of the Armenian diaspora). Just like in the early 1990s, when the shit hits the fans these types of loud mouth faggots disappear from the scene.

Armenians need to wake the hell up from their wet dreams and realize that its existence today is dependent on major powers, more specifically Kremlin officials. And this situation would not change even if every single Armenian on earth, every single Armenian dollar in existence was united behind Armenia. Those who think otherwise have serious/clinical problems with rational and perception. As Georgians recently showed us too much irrational nationalism is destructive. In the case of us Armenians, it can actually be suicidal.

Instead of trying to weave feel-good fairytales about ourselves and our supposed collective capabilities, our pathetic peasants need to make a better effort in getting active in Russia. Instead of bitching and complaining about Russia controling us, you all would do better if you finally realized that Armenia is a tiny, weak, impoverished and landlocked nation surrounded by enemies in the volatile Caucasus. In other words – wake the fuck up, accept reality and figure out how to exploiting our alliance with a superpower like Russia so that Armenia can be powerful enough one day to actually be an independent country.

My previous letter should start with `Arman, ` not avedis, sorry ,my brain really goes dead after reading the fellow`s advice.Avedis, there are many active russahayer in `superpower` Russia -tycoons with billions of $$$-what are they doing with their good money, having exploited their kgb alliance with their matushka.It`s a pity you tolerate such garbage like me , quickly reach for your Kalashnikov to give justice to all who dont think like you – this is your Satrap Chenghiz Khan Tatarussian mentality you want to force on others.Avedis,the kgb once had avery good english language school -why didnt you take advantage of it? Your english is as muddled as yer `brain`-or is it from too much free vodka?