Cant we just admits that lost sailor and saint of Circumstance Suck. I used to hate when I would be at at show and those two songs would pop out. I already figured why couldn't they just come out with some something rocking and kill the show with it. I don't know we are all entitled to out opinion, and now that you know mine, I would love to hear some of yours. Don't kill me to bad if you are a fan of the those two songs. I don't know know why I don't like them, I just don't. Sorry to you all if i offended anyone, as that was my intention at all. I remember buying the record on vinyl, and getting home smoking a fatty, and closing my eyes to trip out. Then they came on and and I was like what the fuck. Anyhow, just that a though on my mind I figured I would shoot out to all of you. I really do want to hear what you have to say good or bad,
NOW........back to listening to the music. Im listening to the Maine Monster from 1980 right now, which has those two songs on them so that it probably why I thought of this forum. PLEASE NO ATTACKING........JUST OPINIONS!!!

_________________NOBODY NOTICES WHAT I DO UNTIL I STOP DOING IT!!!!! fucking bullshit if you ask me, because I always have to explain what I'm doing. Miss the old days of touring and not having a care in the world.

No they don't suck. I especially love Lost Sailor and Bobby's rants, but I dig both halves of the combo.

There are certainly some versions that aren't stellar, but the stellar versions are awesome! The ones I love is where during the transition Jerry just starts wailing, which isn't always the case. To me, this is the key point of the combo, and if it doesn't happen I am nowhere near as happy about it.

In the end, I love LS>Saint... maybe you noticed the name of this place?

Never liked lost sailor, but I can enjoiy a few Saint Of Circumstance. 1980 is a great year for them, especially 10/31/80

_________________"JOKING?! Keep in mind, my friend, that this is serious business to most of us losers around here; we are, after all, wasting our precious lives debating these absurd issues. Have a little respect." - dylan&theded

When I first started seeing the Dead they played those two constantly, so I got a little sick of that combo, especially Sailor. But of course when they were not so prevalent, it was a treat to hear that combo live. I remember it as a highlight of 10/12/84 show. As far as songs, Sailor is OK, definitely a warm up to Saint - kind of like the 1st part of WRS. Saint of Circumstance is an awesome tune, never get tired of it, and the frenzied jam at the end could be mammoth. 1981 and 82 are great years for Sailor Saint.

I like the Sailor>Saint combo. When Bobby nails Lost Sailor it's great but when he kind of raps part of it in that annoying soft voice blachhh. And in a weird turn here, I can't stand solo Saints. That tune really needs the build-up that Sailor gives it for it to work.

I like the Sailor>Saint combo. When Bobby nails Lost Sailor it's great but when he kind of raps part of it in that annoying soft voice blachhh. And in a weird turn here, I can't stand solo Saints. That tune really needs the build-up that Sailor gives it for it to work.

Nicely said.

_________________The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, added to prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own, for the children and the children yet unborn, and the pity of it is, that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone.

IM SORRY I SAID CAN'T WE ALL AGREE THAT THEY SUCK. I was kind of out of it when in wrote that post. Anyhow I respect all your opinions but unfortunately I still just can't past those two songs. I feel obligated to listen to them when I'm listening to show and not skipping over them.

_________________NOBODY NOTICES WHAT I DO UNTIL I STOP DOING IT!!!!! fucking bullshit if you ask me, because I always have to explain what I'm doing. Miss the old days of touring and not having a care in the world.

Nope - I won't do it. I either listen to the whole show or not at all.. if I think there will be a need to skip songs, I just don't listen to any of the show. Not trying to push this protocol on others, but I will not be convinced to start skipping around within a show.

Nope - I won't do it. I either listen to the whole show or not at all.. if I think there will be a need to skip songs, I just don't listen to any of the show. Not trying to push this protocol on others, but I will not be convinced to start skipping around within a show.

That's some serious dedication and some serious time commitment. Most of the time, I'm lucky to get through an entire set uninterrupted. I don't necessarily condone skipping around, but there are times when I think it's fair. I never skip around the first time I listen to a show. But, when you've listened to a show countless times (7/19/74 comes to mind), I don't see a lot of value in listening to the portions of the show that are not what I want to hear (like the first set (AUD)). I like to take myself where the goods are.

Nope - I won't do it. I either listen to the whole show or not at all.. if I think there will be a need to skip songs, I just don't listen to any of the show. Not trying to push this protocol on others, but I will not be convinced to start skipping around within a show.

That's some serious dedication and some serious time commitment. Most of the time, I'm lucky to get through an entire set uninterrupted. I don't necessarily condone skipping around, but there are times when I think it's fair. I never skip around the first time I listen to a show. But, when you've listened to a show countless times (7/19/74 comes to mind), I don't see a lot of value in listening to the portions of the show that are not what I want to hear (like the first set (AUD)). I like to take myself where the goods are.

I think he still takes breaks when necessary...

I'm a skipper... I just don't care enough about BIODTL to see if it won't annoy me every single time, much as bzfgt says above...

I'm with swami ... you can hear the very same song Tennessee Jed for example which can be boring as hell and then you listen to other shows and you get surpised with some little detail in it ... well you all know that's why we all love the GD ... and I -on the other hand - don't like as much bands with very programmed music a la Pink Floyd ...

There is no song that sucks when the Grateful Dead are
"on". I enjoy these songs in that context. I was on the rail for the first Lost Sailor on 8-4-79 and loved it (also the first show that Jerry played the Tiger). I also remember the pure glee that the audience experienced when I saw my first Saint of Circumstance in San Diego on 11-24-79.

There is no song that sucks when the Grateful Dead are
"on". I enjoy these songs in that context. I was on the rail for the first Lost Sailor on 8-4-79 and loved it (also the first show that Jerry played the Tiger). I also remember the pure glee that the audience experienced when I saw my first Saint of Circumstance in San Diego on 11-24-79.

Maybe I went to too many shows.

I generally agree, er, except for "I Will Take You Home" the momentum ruiner of all time. But I know what you mean - despite my hearing the songs from Go To Heaven too many times at shows in the early 80's, when they played them well, the nitpicking went out the window. I remember at 5/1/81 I could tell they were going to open with Alabama - I had heard it as an opener my last 2 shows I went to, but damn if it didn't blow me away.

I see there's a lot of distaste for IWTYH. It's a decent song, but it just doesn't fit at most GD shows. It's usual placement out of Space certainly doesn't help either. It lacks The Wheel's subtle build up and The Other One's slamming take off that I prefer out of Space. I reminds me of Silver Threads And Golden Needles and Long Black Limousine. Those songs would fail in that spot too, just as they failed in the GD cannon in pretty short order. IWTYH lasted a little longer, but it was gone pretty quickly too ('88-'90). The longest version couldn't be more than 6 or 7 minutes...

I really don't understand the dislike of "I will take you home" I can listen to that song its a piano/voice ballad that's all ... its not one of my favs but ... better than Samba in the Rain or Wave something in the wind ...

I really don't understand the dislike of "I will take you home" I can listen to that song its a piano/voice ballad that's all ... its not one of my favs but ... better than Samba in the Rain or Wave something in the wind ...

Don't be a Vince basher like the others, Tizi. You're better than that.

I really don't understand the dislike of "I will take you home" I can listen to that song its a piano/voice ballad that's all ... its not one of my favs but ... better than Samba in the Rain or Wave something in the wind ...

Don't be a Vince basher like the others, Tizi. You're better than that.

I have no idea why they let I Will Take You Home in the show, except that Brent was so far gone, almost a goodbye to his daughters....still, I'm not sure a Dead show is the place for a sentimental testimonial. It doesn't work for me, and I was always polite when they played it. Then, I never jumped on the Day Job bashers bandwagon either. When the band was "on", even Day Job was fantastic (see Jerry Rocks!).

All that said, I think Samba In The Rain had a decent chance of working and having great moments. Garcia just couldn't do it. It was sad because if you listen to Stronger Than Dirt tapes Garcia could easily have handled Samba.
I love the Bossa Nova, and if the Grateful Dead want to go for it, I'm so along for the ride it's not funny. RIP Antonio Carlos Jobim.

Wave To The Wind again suffers from not enough practice, and a general lethargy associated with this beautiful - albeit ambitious tune. The lyrics are lovely, and the jams are luxurious. A few performances almost get there. I see where this tune could have gone. If Garcia had remained healthy they may have gotten there.

I really don't understand the dislike of "I will take you home" I can listen to that song its a piano/voice ballad that's all ... its not one of my favs but ... better than Samba in the Rain or Wave something in the wind ...

Don't be a Vince basher like the others, Tizi. You're better than that.

I am just saing that I prefer I will take you home to the mentioned Vince songs that's it. On the other hand I love the Drums/Space of Vince era ... that's it.

I really don't understand the dislike of "I will take you home" I can listen to that song its a piano/voice ballad that's all ... its not one of my favs but ... better than Samba in the Rain or Wave something in the wind ...

Don't be a Vince basher like the others, Tizi. You're better than that.

Yeah because god forbid anyone hate ANYTHING that was produced in the Vince Era. We all know that the Dead crapped gold with Samba in the Rain, Way to Go Home, Easy Answers, Wave to the Suck, I Fought The Law, Corrina, Crappy River Road...errrrr...Black Muddy River part deux, and the ever classic cop out of Matihlda and Rolling and Tumblin ( but you already hate that because you hate Cream!) Your right...We Are better than that and so is American Idol!

I really don't understand the dislike of "I will take you home" I can listen to that song its a piano/voice ballad that's all ... its not one of my favs but ... better than Samba in the Rain or Wave something in the wind ...

Don't be a Vince basher like the others, Tizi. You're better than that.

Yes, good talk. Glad it was had.
I won't partake in Vince bashing today either...

Yes I fought the law is a very good cover! I also love Rain!
The Vince era Jerry ballads are breath taking but the before mentioned songs are just not better - as far as my tastes are concerned - not better than I will take you home!

Than again ... what do I know I am a european newbie who likes the girls with hairy armpits

At this point, it is definitely safe to say, you are not a newbie dude.

I simply can't keep in my mind the dates of the shows ... too many other things have wasted my brain cells I guess but I am enjoying the company! And I will admit it is funny not to agree all the time on everything!

So let's have fun and ... by the way why don't we start all over again the thread about who preferst the Europe 72 vs. Europe 81 Tour? This is an evergreen ....

At this point, it is definitely safe to say, you are not a newbie dude.

I simply can't keep in my mind the dates of the shows ... too many other things have wasted my brain cells I guess but I am enjoying the company! And I will admit it is funny not to agree all the time on everything!

So let's have fun and ... by the way why don't we start all over again the thread about who preferst the Europe 72 vs. Europe 81 Tour? This is an evergreen ....

Yes, listening to (almost) exclusively whole shows is a time commitment, which is why I haven't been listening to very many shows lately. But for me that is where the enjoyment of Grateful Dead music lies - in hearing the entire night's composition. If I'm doing highlights I may as well listen to other kinds of music more suited for instant gratification.

Yes, listening to (almost) exclusively whole shows is a time commitment, which is why I haven't been listening to very many shows lately. But for me that is where the enjoyment of Grateful Dead music lies - in hearing the entire night's composition. If I'm doing highlights I may as well listen to other kinds of music more suited for instant gratification.

agreed ... each show is some kind of strange coposition of its own and if you take just the slice of it you may loose the "sense" od why one tune is slower / faster / or whatever, but the flow of the show (most of the time) makes sense to the whole, bigger, picture ... I guess

Well, I'll be a contrarian here I suppose. When I have time, I'll usually pick out at least an entire set to listen to, if not a whole show. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time in blocks that permit this. When I do, it' usually when I'm cleaning my house, riding my bicycle, or driving somewhere for work.

What is a lot more common for me is listening to music in the company of others, most of whom are not even remotely as interested in the GD as I am. It's unreasonable to expect a group of 5-10 (or more) people to have the same tastes in music. So, that leaves me with a couple of options. I can ask and see if people would like to listen to the GD (or something else). This is usually met with a lukewarm response. So, then I'm left to assess the musical tastes of the group and play DJ. Now, being a GD fan, I sure as hell don't want to spend the entire night listening to Metallica, The Dead Weather, Marley, Dylan, etc. and NOT listen to some GD too. Thus, I sneak in a tune or two, or maybe even a suite of tunes (the Jam>China>MLB Jam> Rider from 6/26/74 comes to mind) among the others. Everyone gets a little of what they like, and so do I.

That's my reality. Maybe I'm unique, but I think there are a lot of GD fans doing the same in order to preserve marriages and friendships with non-heads.

I usually listen to music by myself. I usually listen to most or all of a show the first time through, then often return to highlights. But if I'm listening to a show from 1972, for instance, it would be rare for me to start at the beginning and go through to the end, because by the time I get through the first set I'll be so bored it'll ruin the rest for me. The shows would be great to attend, and those days few people toured so it was like any other band--you'd be happy to hear the songs you like (and I like most of them). But there has to be some variation and some fireworks for someone to listen to 492 versions of a song and not get bored.

I think a suite of songs from a show is just as good if it isn't surrounded by things you don't want to hear, no reason to torture oneself. For those who genuinely enjoy whole shows more then of course that's better. But this started with colonialsrv basically admitting he was forcing himself to listen to things out of some kind of guilt and sense of connoisseurship, which is just foolish.

That's my reality. Maybe I'm unique, but I think there are a lot of GD fans doing the same in order to preserve marriages and friendships with non-heads.

That's right just survived a firely debate with my wife today ... and I took a Ghandian approach ... basically sayng that she is right ... then went in the garden so feed my kids' turtle ....WITH MI IPOD AND SOME NICE JERRY TUNE ....

I have this weird thing that if I start listening to a show, I have to listen to the whole show all the way through. Even if I started listening to a show right now, and I fell asleep or had to stop for some reason I will always start where I left off no matter what. Now I started this thread with my dislike of lost sailor, saint of circumstance. I don't know exactly why I don't dig those songs, but they just never did anything for me. My main listening eras are keith and Donna, and Brent. I have to admit I am not a huge fan of the Vince era at all. I mean don't get me wrong there were some smoking shows from that era and from time to time I will listen to a show from that period. The thing with me is I don't check out the setlist before I listen to a show. I mean there are some shows that I know by heart. But for the most part I listen to the boys so much I can't remember them all. For the most part I listen to Vince era shows so far and between that I never know the setlist. This isn't me being a Vince hater, I did go to shows through September of 94, but I have to agree I torture myself when I'm listening to a show and I will take you home comes on. Now that's just my opinion, but I can't stand that song. I read above
where some people were saying how could you could hate anything the boys
played? I'm just being honest here....I'm not going to name them but there are a
few songs that I absolutely can't stand. THERE I SAID IT!!! I don't think that
makes me any more or less of a deadhead. Just because I'm a deadhead doesn't
mean that I have to like every song they ever played. And another thing since I'm
being honest...I really never got into Vince at all. I didn't like his sound, and it
almost seems like the boys almost settled on him, so they could get back on the
road to try to keep all of us happy. I guess to finish this up, being a deadhead to me
is about being free, and that includes being free enough to maybe have a song here
or there that you don't like, or just can't get into the vibe. For some reason I just
never got into the whole Vince vibe at all. I can still remember the last run of
shows I went to. I went to all shows during the Boston Garden run in 1994. I
remember leaving the last show and telling my friends I was done. They looked at me kind of strange, but for me everything had changed. The scene changed, the people going to the shows had changed, and to be honest I just couldn't dig the vibe anymore. The Grateful Dead will always be with me, and the memories will always be with me, and thank God for the tapers because we all get to enjoy whatever we want to listen to. Well, I'm rambling on now, so I'm gonna end here. Just thought I would add my two cents worth.
Peace And b Wild.....
Mike

_________________NOBODY NOTICES WHAT I DO UNTIL I STOP DOING IT!!!!! fucking bullshit if you ask me, because I always have to explain what I'm doing. Miss the old days of touring and not having a care in the world.

Also just to explain a little more. There was nothing like going to a Grateful Dead show. I always found it great not knowing what they were going to play, and hoping to hear something. So when I pull out a show, I make it a point to listento the whole show from start to finish. It's just always something that I have done. In fact when Dick's picks starting putting stuff out where disc one was part of one show and disc two was part of another, it took me a long time to accept this, and to buy them. Maybe I'm just crazy. My wife and I come home from work, and I just grab my iPod and pick an era and then pick a month and then just listen to the whole show. I love listening to the boys usually start off slow and them start to really get into the show and start picking up speed. And then the show just picks up and rocks out. I love it....I just can't bring myself to start skipping around to certain songs. I guess if I wanted to do that, I would just make a playlist on my iPod.

Now the other topic that this thread turned out to become about is, I have to agree with...I CAN'T. STAND I WILL TAKE YOU HOME. I don't want my posting to turn into a Vince hating post, but if we are confessing things here, I really never got into the Vince era. The last great shows in my opinion where when Bruce was was onstage with them. I did see quite a few shows with Vince and not everyone was awful, but I never felt as excited or ramped up as I did when Brent was behind the keyboards. I STILL HATE I WILL TAKE YOU HO,E JUAT ABSOLITELY SUCKS. Remember though all this posting is, is my opinion and it seems like we all respect each other so I'll say it again. Again if I offended anyone at ll I'm truly sorry, and that wasn't my intention at all. Anyhow my fellow heads, I'm off to listen to a show from 1981. I can almost guarantee that lost sailor/saint of circumstance will be on it, but I'm alright with it. They may not be songs that I like but at least the boys are having fun, and who know maybe the boys will rock it out
Peace And b Wild everyone!!!!!
Mike

_________________NOBODY NOTICES WHAT I DO UNTIL I STOP DOING IT!!!!! fucking bullshit if you ask me, because I always have to explain what I'm doing. Miss the old days of touring and not having a care in the world.

_________________NOBODY NOTICES WHAT I DO UNTIL I STOP DOING IT!!!!! fucking bullshit if you ask me, because I always have to explain what I'm doing. Miss the old days of touring and not having a care in the world.