heavy snippage. sorry. just want to address a couple of points you made.

Originally Posted by Cuguy

In short, new forum software and a new homepage are not going to bring in a cure.

100% correct. The redesign of the homepage and the new forum software are efforts to maintain the site from a technical point of view and to give it a more modern look. The old site code (outside the forums) was very antiquated. It is cliche for a new developer to trash the previous developers work so I'm not going to. I will say that there have been many advancements in software development since the current site was written. So the "redesign" is as much of a modernization of the software the home page runs on as it is a facelift. 0% of the old code was retained. The new site was recreated from scratch using modern frameworks and design principals.

We are all too familiar with the issues we have had with vbulletin. I think everyone agrees we need something newer/better to move forward.

But this isn't a magic bullet or a cure, as you say. These efforts are things we CAN do and so we are doing them. If we can make our home nicer, cleaner then maybe others will want to visit, but will they want to stay? I don't know. No easy answers. There are many opinions as to how/why our forum isn't more active and hasn't been for some time. Who has the correct opinion on that? I wish I knew.

I sincerely hope and pray that the new staff is effective in resurrecting PSU to days of past activity levels. Hard decisions likely have, and will be made.

I think this is what we should all try to rally behind. Bottom line is that we all want the same thing. We all WANT this site be successful and to have an active, engaged community. "Want" doesn't equal "how" and that is the problem.

I think this is what we should all try to rally behind. Bottom line is that we all want the same thing. We all WANT this site be successful and to have an active, engaged community. "Want" doesn't equal "how" and that is the problem.

Too right.

Saying staff will make posting/activity increase is...wow. If we managed to do that, then I expect every ad-man/marketer out there calling our names because we jut managed to force/find a magic cure to get people to do what we want.

I come here daily just to see how things are progressing. A site that I gave 7 yrs of my free time to, sometimes 20+ hours a week while working full time and being a father to twins, was hard to let go. I want it to succeed. In spite of what was done to me behind closed doors, I still wanted the site to succeed. I wanted new forum software, wipe the slate clean with the members, try to rebuild. I wasn't given that chance, Ghost was and now so is Fiji. I want it to work, for PSU's sake and all of the people I used to call friends (who no longer talk to me) so the forum prospers.

I fear it won't happen tho.

I don't think you want it to.

In short, new forum software and a new homepage are not going to bring in a cure. I feel, apart from Chris, that the new staff are just placeholders hoping for a day when their spots mean something again and most of the active members that post are only here to get into personal sludge matches and hate on all things non-PS.

Wouldn't you love for that to happen so you can come back and say you said so? I know you're twitching just to come back and say it. lol Look what happened to you has already happened. Justified or not, you haven't been able to move on -- and in order to help the site, regardless of having power or not, if your feelings were genuine, you wouldn't just up and leave when things don't go your way.

Fiji - you say you want to get back to PSU's CORE experience, bring back the air of PSU being hospitable to ALL ASPECTS OF GAMING as was written on DAY ONE from the sites' creation. That means equal respect to PS, PC, Nintendo, XBox, WHOMEVER. I joined because it was a one stop place for me to discuss all of my gaming stuff. Hope into the PC/Xbox/Nin areas here, they are trolled to $#@!ing oblivion and the news posted is almost 100% negative for LULZ. Worthless to be there now. Yes, PSU has PS in the name, but you want to entice people to stay, and part of that is embracing varieties of needs. That, or you need to pull a PSLifestyle and just wipe the slate clean of any and all other console discussion and just be a PS site. In the past, right before my ousting, I proposed splitting out the non PS chat to another forum, a sub forum and leaving PSU forums to only PS chat.

Separating the site wouldn't have solved anything. If you honestly think that would stop trolls, you're mistaken.

I sincerely hope and pray that the new staff is effective in resurrecting PSU to days of past activity levels. Hard decisions likely have, and will be made.

I don't know how sincere your "hoping and praying" for the new staff is after you pretty much labeled anyone who has remained on the site to be:

"...The problem is in the staff mentality these days and in the members that have stuck around. I won't go into it, suffice to say that I am in the same boat as Justin here...."

Bitterness will only take you so far. As a leader, you need to own up, not point fingers. You're good at pointing fingers.

Don't alienate people like me who don't bow allegiance to plastic, but rather praise and honor all gaming. Just my 2 cents.

That's not really true, Cuguy. You were quick to close topics that trolled the Xbox, while you'd leave topics open where PS was being trolled. There was no consistency with you. Things really weren't any better under your leadership so for you to come back and try to blame it all on the people who replaced you? Not cool.

You're just trying to really hard to say that what's happening with the site now had nothing at all to do with you (when that is when things started to go down hill). lol Take some responsibility for it.

Just because the people who replaced you weren't able to fix things doesn't mean things are the way they are because of them.

Saying staff will make posting/activity increase is...wow. If we managed to do that, then I expect every ad-man/marketer out there calling our names because we jut managed to force/find a magic cure to get people to do what we want.

Especially on a 0 budget/wage/salary.

But hey, realistic expectations and all right?

I don't think anyone expects the SMC, Mods, or Admins to increase forum traffic. But that's definitely part of the responsibility of the Community Manager. But as you said, not even the Community Manager is getting paid these days.

I guess what it comes down to is that we need more money invested in this place, but that's a whole different discussion.

I don't think anyone expects the SMC, Mods, or Admins to increase forum traffic. But that's definitely part of the responsibility of the Community Manager. But as you said, not even the Community Manager is getting paid these days.

I guess what it comes down to is that we need more money invested in this place, but that's a whole different discussion.

Not getting paid really isn't an excuse since they took on the responsibility for the forum knowing that. But, it's understandable that they are doing it on top of what other responsibilities you have. But it's not like they weren't aware of that. I dunno.

I don't think you want it to.
Admittedly, when the $#@! went down two years ago, yes I wanted this place to burn in hell. However, did you ever see me come in and post that? Did you see me rage quit like Coma and others have? No. I respected the decision and kept my feelings to myself. Now, I have seen friends come back to moderate. I have seen friends posting and I thought to myself, this place deserves to succeed. As usual, you and others who have no $#@!ing clue what goes on with me or my life are bringing baseless accusations.

Wouldn't you love for that to happen so you can come back and say you said so? I know you're twitching just to come back and say it. lol Look what happened to you has already happened. Justified or not, you haven't been able to move on -- and in order to help the site, regardless of having power or not, if your feelings were genuine, you wouldn't just up and leave when things don't go your way.

I have no idea what the hell you are even on about here. If you knew the conversations I have had with Chris and others, you wouldn't entertain this thought. Seriously, $#@! off with this. I have moved on. I don't have the ability to fix, or affect a change here. I don't post a ton any more because the threads are toxic. Unless you are blowing Sony, no one wants you here. I play on everything, as such, I want a site where whatever I choose to discuss is treated with respect. IMMEDIATELY after he was given the reigns, Xbox and other topics were suddenly laughing stocks. So, I went elsewhere to post. I didn't come on complaining, didn't try to get my friends to leave PSU. Nothing of the sort. So your tirade about me packing up and leaving, I COULD have. I haven't. Truth is, the new admin wanted nothing to do with me. So, I didn't help them. $#@! them I said to myself. If they didnt want my help, I wasn't going to offer.

Separating the site wouldn't have solved anything. If you honestly think that would stop trolls, you're mistaken.

It wouldn't have, but it would have allowed much simpler moderation. If some moron wanted to trash the PS on the PS site, he'd be dealt with swiftly.. or banned from PS discussion. We would have been able to provide a cleaner home to people who want to discuss the PS or other consoles allowing for the mods to simply axe the few dumbasses who couldn't exercise the common self restraint to NOT go.

I don't know how sincere your "hoping and praying" for the new staff is after you pretty much labeled anyone who has remained on the site to be:

"...The problem is in the staff mentality these days and in the members that have stuck around. I won't go into it, suffice to say that I am in the same boat as Justin here...."

Bitterness will only take you so far. As a leader, you need to own up, not point fingers. You're good at pointing fingers.

That quote above you alone shows how I am not going into great detail to point fingers. What the present situation here consists of IS the result of the current admin/staff. Not my staff. Not my policies. Each of us, Ghost and I, inherited issues with the site and tried to get it turned around. Mine was massive tech issues and lack of leadership. His was declining numbers and massive tech issues. Simple fact, despite all his promises, revamps in policies and rules, the numbers STILL declined to the point that now, hourly, there are 1000 guests watching 30 members talk. I have been out of all staff interaction for nearly two years, you need to start putting the blame where it $#@!ing belongs. I have owned up in PM's to Ghost, Steven, etc... that yes indeed I did not fix the issues with the community. Should I have PM'd you as well to make you happy?

That's not really true, Cuguy. You were quick to close topics that trolled the Xbox, while you'd leave topics open where PS was being trolled. There was no consistency with you. Things really weren't any better under your leadership so for you to come back and try to blame it all on the people who replaced you? Not cool.

I guess I will beat the dead horse again... the PS sections didn't see the same trolling as the non PS ones did. Hence, you saw more moderation on that side. FFS. Get over it. I am not, and have not been a fanboy of any system. I think that it what rubs yours, and others asses wrong. I won't bow down before a console. As for blame, I have never said that it is the current staff CAUSING the issues. I am just saying, like Justin, that the trend is continuing, either at the fault of current admin or not. Doesn't matter.

You're just trying to really hard to say that what's happening with the site now had nothing at all to do with you (when that is when things started to go down hill). lol Take some responsibility for it.

i have freely admitted that even before my time, the site was on a downward trend. Low budget, large debt, crumbling forum software. I wasn't able to stem the decrease. We couldn't fix the real issue with the site. The forums devolved since the site corrupted and was sold. Prior to that even, the site was slowing in numbers because we just didn't evolve. Harsh reality, but the site is old, the structure is old. That is about to change, but what I personally view as the core issue won't be so easy to fix. I cant even nail it down to "WHO" is the issue because as a whole, the community is toxic here. Threads die fast because rather than talk about things, people are fast to attack and get defensive because they have some wacky adhesion to a console. No CM on the planet can fix people being assholes.

Just because the people who replaced you weren't able to fix things doesn't mean things are the way they are because of them.
No, it doesn't. BUT when you are replaced, and the person(s) behind you get afforded tons of other abilities and access and STILL the membership and activity dwindles, who DO you blame? I have told Steven and Chris many times, as well as Alex, that I want the site to prosper, but they were ignoring things that I thought were important. Again, two years in if it were MY problem that lead to this, they should have been able to fix it. The core issues were not mine, or Alex's, but lie in the members. The members make the site great. Like I said, after two years, start putting the blame on current admin, as that is where it lies in the bed of responsibility now.

It won't be deleted, but I want any future responses to be more civil than they have been from you two. This is a great way to start a lot of useless drama and the train needs to get back on track. I don't want to have to edit or delete posts. :/

Originally Posted by Cuguy

-snip-

Keep in mind it's actually barely been one year. The new staff officially went into power 12 months ago, so it's been about 13ish months since you were CM, I believe. Not two years.

Additionally, Cuguy, I would hope you of all people would understand how difficult it is pleasing everyone as best as possible while trying to objectively moderate the forums. It's not easy. At first we were lenient and cautious but that didn't work, so we eventually became more confident and stricter.

With this generations coming and starting almost every thread had snarky remarks and baiting posts to fuel the console war. A huge chunk of the active community was involved in this mess, and we did our best to stomp it out without scaring members away. I wish you could see the numerous threads we're we discussed what to do, bringing in posts from running rule-breakers to make better judgments, or talking personally with members to resolve the cause of their trouble-making. We tried really, really hard help members and keep things orderly.

The reality is that the community here turned on and cannibalized itself, and we were left to pick up the scraps.

I am not trying to label you as a fanboy; that's entirely how you are choosing to read my post as.

You have a certain way of looking at things and you like to group people under certain umbrellas to easily dismiss their opinions. I use to think you were partial or didn't care as much for one over the other, but as time went on I started to notice something.....your actions did not match what you stated on the site. I can dig up a quote (since you are quick to claim you haven't swore allegiance to any "plastic") where you say you're all about PlayStation - why would you claim this at all?

I started to see a lot of inconsistency with how you dealt with things. As for your claim of trolls being worse towards Xbox than PS....not true. There was a lot of back and forth back then.....people trying to get back at each other, but only one side was punished, while the others were let loose. There was no consistency whatsoever.

Regardless, I don't know.....you say you're not bitter, again, before I said anything, your posts suggested otherwise. I mean, you only have to say something when it has to do with pointing out how things are different now. You say you have moved on....but I am sorry man, it doesn't seem that way.

I started to see a lot of inconsistency with how you dealt with things. As for your claim of trolls being worse towards Xbox than PS....not true. There was a lot of back and forth back then.....people trying to get back at each other, but only one side was punished, while the others were let loose. There was no consistency whatsoever.

Having been a prolific poster in the xbox forums, and now posting exclusively in the PS forums I can say that trolling I saw in the xbox forums was a lot lot worse then ever I saw in the ps side. The good news is that nowadays I actually think it's much better on both sides, although the xbox side is virtually dead now. Maybe that's in part why the numbers have dwindled.

What I think is a shame is that a community of hardcore, passionate console gamers who share a common interest and, quite often, views seem more keen to nitpick at each other.

Having been a prolific poster in the xbox forums, and now posting exclusively in the PS forums I can say that trolling I saw in the xbox forums was a lot lot worse then ever I saw in the ps side. The good news is that nowadays I actually think it's much better on both sides, although the xbox side is virtually dead now. Maybe that's in part why the numbers have dwindled.

What I think is a shame is that a community of hardcore, passionate console gamers who share a common interest and, quite often, views seem more keen to nitpick at each other.

I noticed this a lot too, quite a few arguments started over little things instead of just agreeing on a difference of opinion. I think passionate is the key word though because most people here love to play games and interact with others who feel the same, I think we all just have to remember that we all come here for the same reason and it's important not to get bogged down on little details.

I joined this site after searching google for help on Uncharted: Drakes Fortune because the community was friendly and it felt different to other forums I had browsed for information, I don't think I've even attempted to look for another forum to use since!

Having been a prolific poster in the xbox forums, and now posting exclusively in the PS forums I can say that trolling I saw in the xbox forums was a lot lot worse then ever I saw in the ps side. The good news is that nowadays I actually think it's much better on both sides, although the xbox side is virtually dead now. Maybe that's in part why the numbers have dwindled.

What I think is a shame is that a community of hardcore, passionate console gamers who share a common interest and, quite often, views seem more keen to nitpick at each other.

I don't know....I've mostly posted / visited in the PS section and I felt otherwise, perhaps it has to do with which side we were active in. My overall point has to do with consistency and I don't think there was any back then....similar situations were handled a lot differently depending on who was doing the trolling. Ah well.

I do agree that it is much better on both sides.....but that's also due to less of a need for some people to retaliate; we had a lot of that back then....

Wow, lot being said here. Way I see it is forums are cyclic. Members come and go. The problem here is there really aren't any influx of new posters and old members are leaving. So much finger pointing that it's the mods or members causing the problem, but I really don't see it that way. You could have the best site ever and people will still leave, the difference is there are others to take their place. I guess the big question is how to attract new members and create a community that would foster growth? Because honestly reading this thread gives me a bleak outlook on the future of the forum side of psu.

I remember when I ran one of my contests and I had a union of front page writers, the CM and the community. We saw new members posting review articles and although they weren't retained in the process, for a little bit of time there were some good discussions in those threads with new members. As someone who tried to get community involvement, it was nice to see. It's sad to see this site struggling with 30-40 members nowadays and really how many of them are even posting more than even once or twice a day? People don't want to hear how change is coming soon and to be patient, they will move on to Neogaf or many other gaming communities.

I get that there is no money to spread out and the new site takes priority, but if nothing changes in the forums sometime soon I feel it won't matter in the long run. I realize that I didn't really add anything of significance, but just hoping that $#@! changes for once. Oh and Christopher really is a $#@!ing champion for this site. He deserves so much credit for all his hard work since taking his spot.

Wow, lot being said here. Way I see it is forums are cyclic. Members come and go. The problem here is there really aren't any influx of new posters and old members are leaving. So much finger pointing that it's the mods or members causing the problem, but I really don't see it that way. You could have the best site ever and people will still leave, the difference is there are others to take their place. I guess the big question is how to attract new members and create a community that would foster growth? Because honestly reading this thread gives me a bleak outlook on the future of the forum side of psu.

I remember when I ran one of my contests and I had a union of front page writers, the CM and the community. We saw new members posting review articles and although they weren't retained in the process, for a little bit of time there were some good discussions in those threads with new members. As someone who tried to get community involvement, it was nice to see. It's sad to see this site struggling with 30-40 members nowadays and really how many of them are even posting more than even once or twice a day? People don't want to hear how change is coming soon and to be patient, they will move on to Neogaf or many other gaming communities.

I get that there is no money to spread out and the new site takes priority, but if nothing changes in the forums sometime soon I feel it won't matter in the long run. I realize that I didn't really add anything of significance, but just hoping that $#@! changes for once. Oh and Christopher really is a $#@!ing champion for this site. He deserves so much credit for all his hard work since taking his spot.

Wow, lot being said here. Way I see it is forums are cyclic. Members come and go. The problem here is there really aren't any influx of new posters and old members are leaving. So much finger pointing that it's the mods or members causing the problem, but I really don't see it that way. You could have the best site ever and people will still leave, the difference is there are others to take their place. I guess the big question is how to attract new members and create a community that would foster growth? Because honestly reading this thread gives me a bleak outlook on the future of the forum side of psu.

I remember when I ran one of my contests and I had a union of front page writers, the CM and the community. We saw new members posting review articles and although they weren't retained in the process, for a little bit of time there were some good discussions in those threads with new members. As someone who tried to get community involvement, it was nice to see. It's sad to see this site struggling with 30-40 members nowadays and really how many of them are even posting more than even once or twice a day? People don't want to hear how change is coming soon and to be patient, they will move on to Neogaf or many other gaming communities.

I get that there is no money to spread out and the new site takes priority, but if nothing changes in the forums sometime soon I feel it won't matter in the long run. I realize that I didn't really add anything of significance, but just hoping that $#@! changes for once. Oh and Christopher really is a $#@!ing champion for this site. He deserves so much credit for all his hard work since taking his spot.

I think there is potential to build some interesting new cultures at PSU via things like photmode, sharefactory, twitch streaming, community gaming etc. I'm brainstorming how these can be meaningfully accommodated for in the new forums and how we might make it a fun and engaging. First comes the forum migration though. That in itself holds a host of opportunities.

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