Send me email updates about messages I've received on the site and the latest news from The CafeMom Team.
By signing up, you certify that you are female and accept the Terms of Service and have read the
Privacy Policy.

Mommy don't we love America?

Mommy, don't we love America?

By most standards, Lisa and John are model citizens. He's a veteran, they are both college grads, and they've been married for over ten years. Both have good jobs, John in high-tech and Lisa in the medical field. They live in the Boston suburbs, send their kids to public school, and spend most of their waking hours juggling busy schedules involving work, school, and the kids' activities.

Religious affirmations in school can discriminate against nonbelieving families, contributing to prejudice against them.

Nevertheless, in the eyes of some, there is reason to question the patriotism of Lisa and John. Their flaw, it seems, is that they don't conform to official government doctrine on the existence of a divinity. "Our six-year-old daughter came home from first grade very confused," Lisa explains. "In school she was taught to stand up each morning and declare that we are a nation under God, but she knows that mommy and daddy don't believe in any gods. She wanted to know, why does the school say there's a God when mommy and daddy say there isn't?"

Lisa and John, who both consider themselves Humanists, explained to their daughter that not all Americans believe in divinities, and that the "under God" wording was added to the Pledge of Allegiance by people who thought it was important. Trying not to overwhelm the small child with too much information, they simply explained that people who don't believe in God should not have their patriotism questioned.

Of course, Lisa and John are right. The Constitution guarantees religiousfreedom, including the right to not believe, as well as the separation of church and state. The Constitution also forbids religious tests for public office, making it clear that religiosity and good citizenship are unrelated concepts.

"She's a confident little girl and she knows that we are good citizens," John explains. "But she takes words seriously, and she was obviously troubled by the fact that the school was saying one thing and her parentswere saying another."

Lisa and John feel that they gave their daughter the assurances she needs, but they nevertheless resent that, on a daily basis in school, she must confront a religious truth claim that contradicts their family's beliefs. "Why should my child go to school every day to be told by the school, in an official flag-salute ceremony with teachers and classmates, that the religious views we've been teaching her are wrong?" John asks. "We teach her good values, right from wrong. She's a good girl, and her family's religion shouldn't be disparaged by her school."

Lisa expresses concern that the "under God" wording strongly implies that nonbelievers are less patriotic than those who believe. "This is a patriotic exercise, let's be clear about that," she says. "So if this official patriotic ceremony, conducted every day with hand over heart, declares that our country is under God, then obviously the inference is that true patriots must believe in God. That's always made me uneasy, but now that my kids are getting to school age it really worries me."

And John and Lisa are not alone. From sea to shining sea, secular Americans who love their country find themselves dealing with the problem of governmental religiosity in an age when religious activists are politically engaged, well funded, and ready to assert their agenda on such issues. As such, anyone who questions governmental God-talk immediately becomes a participant in the culture wars.

The problem, says Ron, a father of two from California, is that many Americans are oblivious to history. "A lot of people think the Pledge was written by the Founding Fathers," he says, when in fact it was actually written about a century later, in 1892, for a children's magazine. That original Pledge had no religious language, as it promised allegiance to "one nation indivisible." Though it proved catchy and was eventually utilized widely by schools, it remained secular until the "under God" wording was added in 1954 at the height of the McCarthy era, after much lobbying by the Knights of Columbus and other religious groups.

Around the same time that "under God" was added to the official federal version of the Pledge, religious lobbyists succeeded in convincing Congress to make "In God We Trust" the national motto. Again, Ron says many Americans are unaware that this religious motto was adopted only as recently as the 1950s.

"The real motto of this country, from the days of the Founders, was E Pluribus Unum," he says, referring to the Latin motto (meaning "Out of many, one") found on the Great Seal of the United States, which dates back to 1782. Ron and others point to what they feel is the beauty of E Pluribus Unum, in that it exemplifies the federal structure of the country (out of many states, one nation) and the pluralistic, melting-pot nature of the American population (out of many peoples, one American people).

Thus, secular parents like John, Lisa, and Ron teach their kids that America's sharp turn toward public religiosity actually contradicts traditional American values. Religious conservatives can cherry pick examples of the Founders making religious references, of course, but such arguments ignore the fact that the Founders did not have a religious pledge, a religious national motto, or for that matter an official annual National Day of Prayer. To be sure, practical politics in the 18th century required a certain level of respect be paid to religion, but what's most remarkable about the Founders is not their religiosity, but their secularism. Many Founders, such as Thomas Jefferson, considered themselves Deists and rejected outright the notion of revelation-based religion.

Some have argued that secular families and children should simply stop complaining, that they should learn to accept official governmentalbias against their religious views. If the Pledge wording really bothers you, these people argue, then don't participate in the flag-salute ceremony each day. (The Supreme Court ruled in 1943, in a case involving a Jehovah's Witnesses child, that schools cannot force children to participate in the Pledge.) This argument assumes, however, that nonparticipation is an easy option, but numerous documented instances of harassment toward those who refuse to participate in patriotic exercises suggest otherwise.

Even more importantly, secular families feel that the burden of resiliency should not rest with the child, who simply comes to school expecting to be treated as an equal, but with the government, which has a duty to treat all children equally. "My child doesn't want to sit out while the rest of her class says the Pledge," argues Melissa, an Illinois mother of a junior high student. "No kid likes to be the odd one, the one who's different. She wants to participate like everyone else, but she doesn't want the government criticizing our family's religious beliefs."

Some secular parents are active in Humanist and atheist communities, whereas others simply have no group affiliation. Almost all of them, however, are more likely to spend Sunday morning in a museum than a church, and all must find ways of dealing with the religiosity that is regularly imposed on their kids. Though it comes in various forms, the most persistent problem seems to be the regular, often daily, recitation of the religious Pledge of Allegiance in schools.

These secular families address this issue in different ways, depending on numerous factors - their own willingness to be visible dissenters, the temperment of their child, the level of sympathy of teachers and administrators, the religious and patriotic climate in the school community, and other factors. Most atheist and Humanist children indeed participate in the Pledge, though many parents report that their kids discreetly remain silent while the words "under God" are spoken. (Melissa's daughter quietly, and cleverly, says "under law" instead.)

Most secular parents are not thrilled with such compromises, but realize that there are few better options. "By participating, even if you don't say 'under God,' you are validating the religious language, because nobody knows that you aren't saying the religious words," John says. "By standing and participating, you give the appearance of unanimity. It perpetuates the ridiculous idea that all patriotic people believe in God."

Regardless of how secular families deal with the issue, most wish they simply weren't forced to do so. They see the entire dilemma as being caused by overzealous religious conservatives and the politicians who are reluctant to stand up to them, fearful of doing the right thing to keep governmentout of the religion business and protect the rights of minorities.

To illustrate what it's like to have their religious views rejected on a daily basis by the schools, atheist and Humanist parents suggest imagining a hypothetical where the Pledge wording is changed to "one nation, under Jesus." There would be no question, of course, that such a Pledge would discriminate against Hindus, Jews, and Muslims. As such, atheist and Humanist parents argue, the "under God" wording is really no different. The assertion that a country is "under God" is, by definition, a specific religious truth claim, a claim that is believed by some and not others.

Since America is growing increasingly secular, especially among the younger generation, this is a problem that is unlikely to go away soon. But until it does, the goal of true indivisibility may remain elusive.

Nor do you have a constitutional freedom to use public schools to proselytize to children. The words don't belong there.

Quoting SallyMJ:

We don't have a Constitutional freedom not to feel offended. Maybe some other country does. But somehow I doubt it.

Quoting blues_pagan:

Yes and children should be able to go to school and not feel like they are being forced to believe in something they do not.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Negative. You have an inaccurate view of history. The reason most of the colonies was started was for freedom OF religion - to worship the way they wanted, or not.

Freedom means the choice to do, or not do something.

Quoting Mommy_of_Riley:

It always amazes me that people throw out the idea that this country has "strong religious heritage"...

We were founded as a nation to get away from religion. This country was specifically created because the people wanted freedom to choose what religion, if any, they followed.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

That's a silly comment when you can't decide how to respond to a statement.

Quoting autodidact:

Just not willing to take responsibility for anything you post, are you?

Quoting SallyMJ:

You don't read very well, do you - either straight, or between the lines.

Have you ever heard of irony or satire?

Quoting mikiemom:

Smdh - oh and be the only non-3rd world country to not have a public education system. Wow, you really are hell bent on destroying our country aren't you.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Well, we didn't used to have public schools either. I say we abolish them and let everyone either home school or start a school to teach exactly the way each parent wants.

Quoting mikiemom:

No it is a public school no religion should be favored over another. Your attitude is very very wrong. It astounds me that you can't empathize with a child that feels ostrisized by christian bullying.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

So maybe we should change it to under Odin, I mean your faith would have to be pretty insecure to not be ok with that. or how about under Elmo or Obama - hey that last one might take lol

Quoting itsmesteph11:

This bunch of people who apparently feel the "under god" in the pledge is a slap against them or their beliefs(whatever they may be) sure must have a terribly low self esteem. Never was and never will be(aside from their imagination) . Maybe psycologists should do a big study on that.........

"These people need to realize they're living in a country"? No, Sally, these people are Americans citizens every bit as much as you are. the actual pledge should replace the bastardized version.

And as much as some religious people would like to create the impression,it is in fact not just fundamentalists who homeschool.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

And when she doesn't say it and Sallymj jr. screams miss xyz the nasty evil athiest girl didn't say under god making the poor child feel horrible - your ok with that aren't you.

Quoting SallyMJ:

The idea is freedom for all. The girl has never been obligated to say "under God" - some choose not to do that. She can too. It's not that complicated.

Quoting blues_pagan:

Just because the line of thinking is new doesn't mean it is always right. Like the NDAA. That is new but definitely not something many support, for good reason.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Well, we also didn't have public schools back in the day. Or stop signs. Or the vote for women or blacks.

Are you saying you want to go back to those times too? Be consistent.

Quoting TCgirlatheart:

The addition of "under God" to the pledge did not occur out of religious heritage, but rather communist hysteria. Had it been in the original author's pledge, I would support it's being there.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

Not proselytizing. The girl does not have to say the words, since they don't apply to her. Or she doesn't even have to say the pledge. Simple solution.

As you know, Jehovah's Witness children have been excused from saying the Pledge for years. This girl can do the same.

But I think resolving the situation for one person isn't enough for some - They feel they have a right to change everything for everyone else.

OK, a handful of choices:

1) The girl can omit saying, "Under God".

2) The girl can refrain from saying the Pledge. Maybe come to school two minutes late.

3) The parents can home school their daughter.

4) The parents can join with their friends and establish their own school where any reference to God are stripped from the curriculum.

Quoting autodidact:

Nor do you have a constitutional freedom to use public schools to proselytize to children. The words don't belong there.

Quoting SallyMJ:

We don't have a Constitutional freedom not to feel offended. Maybe some other country does. But somehow I doubt it.

Quoting blues_pagan:

Yes and children should be able to go to school and not feel like they are being forced to believe in something they do not.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Negative. You have an inaccurate view of history. The reason most of the colonies was started was for freedom OF religion - to worship the way they wanted, or not.

Freedom means the choice to do, or not do something.

Quoting Mommy_of_Riley:

It always amazes me that people throw out the idea that this country has "strong religious heritage"...

We were founded as a nation to get away from religion. This country was specifically created because the people wanted freedom to choose what religion, if any, they followed.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

If you're imagining that I'm indecisive that's all on you. You're the one who keeps retreating to claims of irony or satire.

Quoting SallyMJ:

That's a silly comment when you can't decide how to respond to a statement.

Quoting autodidact:

Just not willing to take responsibility for anything you post, are you?

Quoting SallyMJ:

You don't read very well, do you - either straight, or between the lines.

Have you ever heard of irony or satire?

Quoting mikiemom:

Smdh - oh and be the only non-3rd world country to not have a public education system. Wow, you really are hell bent on destroying our country aren't you.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Well, we didn't used to have public schools either. I say we abolish them and let everyone either home school or start a school to teach exactly the way each parent wants.

Quoting mikiemom:

No it is a public school no religion should be favored over another. Your attitude is very very wrong. It astounds me that you can't empathize with a child that feels ostrisized by christian bullying.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

It's my preference that should not be impelled to say it but if they are only the actual pledge should be you.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Not proselytizing. The girl does not have to say the words, since they don't apply to her. Or she doesn't even have to say the pledge. Simple solution.

As you know, Jehovah's Witness children have been excused from saying the Pledge for years. This girl can do the same.

But I think resolving the situation for one person isn't enough for some - They feel they have a right to change everything for everyone else.

OK, a handful of choices:

1) The girl can omit saying, "Under God".

2) The girl can refrain from saying the Pledge. Maybe come to school two minutes late.

3) The parents can home school their daughter.

4) The parents can join with their friends and establish their own school where any reference to God are stripped from the curriculum.

Quoting autodidact:

Nor do you have a constitutional freedom to use public schools to proselytize to children. The words don't belong there.

Quoting SallyMJ:

We don't have a Constitutional freedom not to feel offended. Maybe some other country does. But somehow I doubt it.

Quoting blues_pagan:

Yes and children should be able to go to school and not feel like they are being forced to believe in something they do not.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Negative. You have an inaccurate view of history. The reason most of the colonies was started was for freedom OF religion - to worship the way they wanted, or not.

Freedom means the choice to do, or not do something.

Quoting Mommy_of_Riley:

It always amazes me that people throw out the idea that this country has "strong religious heritage"...

We were founded as a nation to get away from religion. This country was specifically created because the people wanted freedom to choose what religion, if any, they followed.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

Why not y'all are taking God out of everything else. How about the act that it offends me that you want to take it out if the pledge?? so what your offense is better than mine?? Oh I guess because I'm a Christian I can never be offended because that would be "judgmental"

You know, I'm left wondering if the way you would approach this subject with the 6 year old child in question the same way you did here- with a mocking 'boohoo'.

You ask a lot from this 6 year old. Little children tend to listen to authority figures when they're being taught. They don't think: oh, that bit of information that they want us to MEMORIZE is optional. They think you have to say it. Would you say, "oh boo hoo little child, it's perfectly logical to just not say it", or would you try with a somewhat less callous tone?

And frankly, the founders didn't want the loyalty oath to start with. Loyalty oaths are the last recourse of liars said Benjamin Franklin. Coercive chanting should not represent patriotism.

Quoting SallyMJ:

The funny thing is she doesn't have to say "under God". A number of people don't. And it works just fine for them.

And that is by far the most cost effective option of all.

As I'm sure most logically thinking Americans would agree. It's not that complicated.

Quoting blues_pagan:

They are not asking to take God out of the entire culture. That is stupid and would never work. Instead they are asking that public schools be made all inclusive where children are not forced to say things they do not believe in.

And your start your own school or home school advice isn't a viable option for everyone.

Quoting SallyMJ:

So they can tailor the suggestions - which apply to any and every situation - to their own. It's not that difficult. Christian and Jewish parents chose long ago to start their own religious schools for their children. Why do parents who don't believe in God feel the government owes it to them to excise God out of he entire culture because it hurts their feelings? Religious parents didn't.

Start your own school, or home school. Not that complicated a decision.

Quoting blues_pagan:

Much of what you call our religious past didn't come around until the McCarthy era in the 1950's.

And who said anything about being atheist? This little girl could easily be Muslim, Pagan, Hindu or any other number of religions practiced in America today.

Quoting SallyMJ:

Oh, boo hoo. Cut the violins. These people need to realize they are living in a country with a very strong religious heritage. Rather than seeking to change the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe they should just follow a couple of examples of things religious parents do:

1) Home school their child - as do religious parents who don't like how some public schools ridicule their beliefs.

2) Start their own atheist private school. And continue paying taxes for public schools, as all parents who send their kids to religious schools do.

Send me email updates about messages I've received on the site and the latest news from The CafeMom Team.
By signing up, you certify that you are female and accept the Terms of Service and have read the
Privacy Policy.