Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Well, perhaps you are just going round and round not changing any perspective.

Anyway to apologize there are good people in the world, but then there are also the Jihadis Janis! (we we also).

Just in this area, perhaps get rid of the anti-socials. They continue to lie and cheat and claim things that never were while they need their Services cut off.

This we are the world stuff has to stop from them. According to them they are not in the world, but still, they exist. Too bad they think like they do.

But then I am trying to move on, except they keep coming around wherever other people may be. They allow no Peace in the sense that they are just too far gone. Except to me they have taken over the world and now it is really gone.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I like this thread. Here's some thoughts on the nature of matter, from "Seth Speaks":

"The nature of matter itself is not understood. You perceive it at a certain "stage." Using your terms now and speaking as simply as possible, there are other forms of matter beyond those you see. These forms are quite real and vivid, quite "physical," to those who react to that particular sphere of activity. In terms of probabilities, therefore, you choose certain acts, unconsciously transform these into physical events or objects, and then perceive them....(snip)

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

(snip)...How does one consciously alter perspectives? That is when you are not in the dream state.

Quoting: Joyce Junior

Hello!

There's no easy way to explain it, but it can be done by changing representations.

Representations surround you. Everything you see is a representation of something else.

So, you could say that by doing something different with a representation you are changing the relationship and, thus, the resultant perspective.

For example, let's say you were living in poor conditions and wanted to move into a nicer place.

Take a look at the representations around you. What things do you perceive (through all of your 5 senses + your thoughts) that make you feel as though the conditions were not suitable?

It could be that you live in a poor neighborhood with lots of boarded-up homes. Your house is somewhat dilapidated and there is little hot water. But for now let's focus on your immediate environment, like your bedroom or where you spend most of your time in the house.

It could be that you have a broken handle on your bedroom door, an unsightly hole in the wall in the hallway, and old stairs. There are many more conditions about your house, of course, but let's keep ourselves to these three.

Each of these three would represent the conditions you find yourself in. (They form a sort of consciousness.) Your experience is not so much "because" you lost your job several years ago and have a family to support, but is more because you have allowed the representations to interact more and more over time and do so within your environment. It is more about the relationships you have in the now (and here) than in the past (or there). Maybe you remember the handle wasn't always broken. But when it broke you didn't care to fix it. This broken handle then began to interact with the other representations in the house making the complete picture seem more undesirable. (The broken handle slowly breaks its surroundings, so to speak.)

You would begin to change your perspective by making the representations appropriate to the an other state (say, a better living environment). Changing the representations (fixing the handle, taking care of the hole and the stairs) may not seem like the way to get you out of the house, but it is.

[Here's where English gets a bit tricky.. bear with me in the illustration]

When the relationships change you experience this change over time. You transition from one state to another much the same way you don't just appear in a dream but you transition by preparing for bed, putting on certain clothes or laying in a certain place, etc. It is possible to realize you are dreaming now (and we sometimes do, momentarily) but it is not something in our cognitive framework. You don't just go from one state to another. It's shocking. You need a logical transition.

So, even though a relationship may change more or less instantly it may take some time for you to perceive of the change in your physically-oriented environment.

(For many people here, this relationship transition period is about 2-3 months I think.)

It is not necessary to change your thoughts so much. Many of your thoughts have 'externalizations' that you can see. Changing a thought could be as easy as doing something physical. In the big scheme of things, there is little difference. (Do realize, however, that what is most relative to you is closest to you and your experience. Your body is most relative as are your thoughts. It is your close experience. But changing something else may trigger a new kind of relationship which may allow you, eventually, to perceive the kind of things you want.)

Sometimes we make the mistake of resisting the things around us. This usualy doesn't work because you can't just "push a cup away". The cup is more than what you see. The cup could very much be tied to other things that you see or don't see.

A ready example would be Susan trying to leave a man that she knows isn't good for her. It is not as easy as physically leaving until she has changed more of the other relationships that she can't see, as well.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I thought of a good one! What if two people change their perspectives to that of the same thing? Can perspectives be combined?

For that matter, does a combination of perspectives cause some kind of an accepted upon reality like the one we "currently" exist in?

Or do perspectives form relationships with other perspectives creating the accepted upon reality?

Essentially, can whatever the reality is be shifted based on the perspectives in it, instead of just the "entity" changing perspectives?

I think I completely muddled whatever question that was supposed to be.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 761993

Hello!

If person1 changed her perspective to person2, then she would be person2.

Perspectives cannot be combined. It would then be a new perspective. (It's more squared than added, though there's not any words I can put the concept into.)

Neither would there then be an "accepted upon reality", as perspective goes out in all directions. (This is an extreme oversimplification of something for lack of a better way to express it.) We can't "see" beyond our own perspective. The moment we do it becomes another perspective.

The reality is the perspective. (It could be said that the entity is a perspective, as there is nothing else that defines the entity or its individuality other than perspective.)

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

...I believe hermetics to be on the correct path. You are just a hermetic (coupled with a couple of ideas from theoretical physics) who is pretending to be a time traveler...

Hello!

Any path could be said to be just as 'correct' as any other. This is because there is no 'final desination'.

I'm not sure what a hermetic is. I'll have to learn about it more.

...I am only at the beginning of the practise but I experienced my first split of consciousness and it is quite freaky and cool at the same time. It only lasted 30 seconds or so.

Apparently one is able to experience not just 2 lives simultaneously, but thousands and more...

Perhaps it is more an an inclusiveness.

For example, your left hand could say that it was momentarily aware of "an alternate hand" (your right hand, from your perspective). The experience would, indeed, be quite strange to it. "How is this possible?", it may think.

The hand did not create this consciousness, it was already there. The hand just became aware of a relationship that exists.

There are many kinds of consciousness 'within' our own bodily consciousness. Hundreds of trillions of cells, for example, each with its own.

If one very intuitive cell were to become much more aware of the nature of its existence then it could feel that it is part of a brain, for example. If it expanded farther it could experience what it would be like to be you. At that time you could say there would be no difference between your experience and its expanded experience.

Thanks.

Quoting: chaol 183770

You don't need to explain it to me chaol. I understand it.

Also, I already understand the philosophers point of view of "correct" or "up" or "down" or any position of relativity.

When I said "correct" in that context I mean it is a path to where I would like to go (destination or intention). In that regard, it is "correct". I focus on where I would like to go.

This is like a cool philosphy class. I'd given up ("not focused upon anymore" - to translate for you chaol) on theoretical "how the universe" works.

Now, it's much more important for me how to practically use these principles.

Franz Bardon has some good stuff. I'm a novice at hermetics, but I heard there are other ways.

Also, the other posters "emotion with vision" sounds spot on. I wonder if the effect would be more intense if more than one person did it. Mmmm. There are books on that I think. Didn't Noel Edmunds (Brit tv presenter) write something similar but without the emotion? I think emotion is the missing link though. Good one.

Your practical suggestion is to make up a new word for an experience with no word in English. I'll try that, in fact I just did . "Danga" will be my new word for a feeling that doesn't come very often these days (at all) but was one which I often had when I was 19,20,21. A feeling of excited optimism, but much more than that. I can't describe it, so it will be called Danga. I'm not sure how that will change my perception.

Your other method of being most relative to something similar to what you desire and then being relative to something more similar and so on. Could you give me an example?

If I took a material example, say a BMW, but didn't have the money I would want to make myself most relative to a BMW. Would I change jobs and work in a BMW garage? Would I browse BMW brochures and dream? Would I get a ride a lot from a friend who had one etc.? Would I concentrate on having one and feel the seats and imagine what it was like to have one? (That last bit sounds like emotion). That also sounds like "emotion with vision".

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Perspectives cannot be combined. It would then be a new perspective. (It's more squared than added, though there's not any words I can put the concept into.)

Weirdly, I understand that. I occasionally remember how I thought and felt (perception) 10 to 15 years ago. I don't remember all my thoughts and feelings that made up my entire being, just as now I am not completely conscious of all my thoughts and feelings (but thanks to Franz Bardon, I am more so). I didn't go "multi-dimensional" though because I thought of this lol.

I also know it's not your own theory. Others have said these things before. It's an intellectual understanding. It isn't enough.

Going back to Bardon, he says that one needs to develop the mind or intellect (spirit), body (physical)and emotions (soul). It makes one a better person. I like it anyway. It's a lifetime practice though.

I like Chaol's theory of fixing the door handle etc. I understand that too. I've heard these theories before, but chaol has put his perspective on it that is fresh. I like that.

Oh, about gravity being matter structured. I read about that too. For a more accurate description, read "ether and it's vortices" by Karl Friedrich Krafft.

Great intellectual read. Matter isn't gravity, but matter is the ether going round in circles. The ether isn't gravity, but can result in gravity depending on the relationship between the etheric circles.

All these are intellectual concepts and don't really help us here and now, well not that I am aware ;) he he.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

hello! how do you use this language of yours? did you speak it or think it to come here? what is music like where you come from?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 749567

Interesting!

The language is a kind of slang or jargon that complements our use of spoken language. It could be compared to how traders on exchange floors mix English with their own technical jargon. Not everyone "speaks" it though.

Yes, it is thought to shift perspectives. Or to figure something out. Or to assist in decision-making. You can think of it like a mental equation, a key, that enables you to see the doorway into another world. Perhaps no different than using English in your mind to form thoughts and make decisions, etc. A lot of it, however, depends on context. What may be one interpretation to one person may be totally different to another. So we are not free from disagreements, politics, wars, and such. Though not nearly the kind that is had here.

Yes, our music is different. But I think because of two main reasons.

One is that it is much more integrated into our lives. Soundwise it is similar to the laptops here that may make a sound when you start up the operating system, open a program, or receive a message. For us, this music is everywhere. When I would sit in my chair the chair would sing for a few moments. Turning on the cold water sounds different than turning on the warm water. Our walls and doors make sounds depending on certain conditions. But more importantly music (as well as games) is a medium for education. Students can easily create music based on what it is they want to learn if there is not already a 'song' for it. Here is just seems that music is for entertainment. Its uses will probably be extended in your future.

Two, there's not so much of an emphasis on profit, so there is had a much more wide variety of music from which to chose. The more you listen to a piece the more there is an automatic demand for that type of music. So others create the music for what you would call money. The pieces tend to be much longer than a few minutes and don't necessarily include rhyming lyrics as much. We use more narratives.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

(snip)...Also, the other posters "emotion with vision" sounds spot on. I wonder if the effect would be more intense if more than one person did it.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570

Hello!

Not exactly. What you need are representations that mirror your intent. So if those people are representations of your intent then the effect would be more intense.

Mmmm. There are books on that I think. Didn't Noel Edmunds (Brit tv presenter) write something similar but without the emotion? I think emotion is the missing link though. Good one.

Your practical suggestion is to make up a new word for an experience with no word in English. I'll try that, in fact I just did . "Danga" will be my new word for a feeling that doesn't come very often these days (at all) but was one which I often had when I was 19,20,21. A feeling of excited optimism, but much more than that. I can't describe it, so it will be called Danga. I'm not sure how that will change my perception.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570

Excellent! Use it from now on your normal verbiage and you will increase your interaction with such experiences.

I don't know about Noel Edmunds, though.

Your other method of being most relative to something similar to what you desire and then being relative to something more similar and so on. Could you give me an example?

If I took a material example, say a BMW, but didn't have the money I would want to make myself most relative to a BMW. Would I change jobs and work in a BMW garage? Would I browse BMW brochures and dream? Would I get a ride a lot from a friend who had one etc.? Would I concentrate on having one and feel the seats and imagine what it was like to have one? (That last bit sounds like emotion). That also sounds like "emotion with vision".

I don't want a BMW, by the way. But it is just an example.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570

In this example, it may be more effective to interact with a representation of the BMW. It could be that you go the dealer and purchase a BMW t-shirt or other item. The more that representation interacts with the other aspects of your reality (the other representation) the more you are bringing further representations of it into your experience. One of those 'further representations' could be the car itself. This is an oversimplification, as there are many relationships involved. The ecsys model, when used properly, can help you to map out such relationships.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

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Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

All these are intellectual concepts and don't really help us here and now, well not that I am aware ;) he he.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570

Hello!

That's why I want to share what I call ecsys, because any of the complex concepts can be translated into simple ones.

Although the concepts can be complicated for some (most?) to understand, it is wished that they are presented as simply as possible in the same way that the language exhibits simplicity.

This world has a kind of "more" sickness. More complex, more profits, more technology, etc. What is not yet realized is how much can be done with simplicity.

For example, instead of tech companies coming out with a mobile phone that has a battery life of several months and only the features that I would use, I can only get a phone with a very short battery life and lots of features I will never used and a size that isn't really convenient.

There is a lot of talk here about wasting resources but not really much is known about the true waste of resource efficiency, human capacity, and lack of transparency.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

This world has a kind of "more" sickness. More complex, more profits, more technology, etc. What is not yet realized is how much can be done with simplicity.

Quoting: chaol 183770

I am aware of this already, but I don't think I am as aware as you (a different perspective perhaps, he he). The medical field is a prime example of this which is too long to go into here.

Your mobile phone example is good. The reason for that is profit, but I think the rabbit hole goes deeper. I think the banking system and fractional reserve lending is the main culprit. Everybody needs to make more money to keep the money system going, so to speak. In the Western world (with the rest following suit) it's all about how much money you have in your bank account. If you are poor, you are a failure, that kind of representation.

I had a sort of mild transcendental experience whilst in the tropics on holiday smoking a cigar. It was like an inner dialogue where that topic came up much clearer. I could feel it as well as understand it. It was as if I was starting to understand someone else's perspective looking in, if that makes sense. Of course, the experience went and I was back in my old reality.

It's kind of like all Western ambitions being material, that would perhaps sum it up. No tribal belonging, too much individualism, a lack of expressive bonding, that sort of thing. It felt like a heart trap.

Sorry about ranting away about my experiences. Probably not interesting to most here. That's another thing I will be "working on", to stop talking as much about myself.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Your practical suggestion is to make up a new word for an experience with no word in English. I'll try that, in fact I just did . "Danga" will be my new word for a feeling that doesn't come very often these days (at all) but was one which I often had when I was 19,20,21. A feeling of excited optimism, but much more than that. I can't describe it, so it will be called Danga. I'm not sure how that will change my perception.

Excellent! Use it from now on your normal verbiage and you will increase your interaction with such experiences.

Quoting: chaol 183770

It works! I remembered another feeling; one of burning joyish feeling in the middle of my chest. I have called that "Zime", a bit of a spin off of sublime I suppose. The more I've spoken about it the more I am feeling it, surreal. I'm feeling right now! This is the feeling I have gotten in the past when I was being very creative, in fact, a little type of poem writing has resulted. Here it is:

We represent who we are, and choose to go what is not far.For I is you and you are me and we all a part of the same happy family.To be up is down and left is right but what to do when in flight.Is there here? Is here there? Where am I when I am being fair?Where is the bonding between you and me when I work for myself and not for thee?How many lives end unawakend, their golden ladder climbed forsakened.Their gold is not joy, their ladder is not theirs. Theirs is not mine, for I am Zime.I am the Danga of past times, the feeling of youthful joy that burns by mind.For I am you and you are me and we are all part of the same happy family.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

(snip...)Your mobile phone example is good. The reason for that is profit, but I think the rabbit hole goes deeper. I think the banking system and fractional reserve lending is the main culprit. Everybody needs to make more money to keep the money system going, so to speak. In the Western world (with the rest following suit) it's all about how much money you have in your bank account. If you are poor, you are a failure, that kind of representation....

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570

Hello!

I think the sickness is not so much greed but the confusion of what physicality is.

For the last few thousand years humans have been used to thinking that physical resources are limited. We naturally tend to think that we will not be able to form relationships (and, thus, exist) if we do not have these physical resources, land, etc.

This "more, more, more" is a survival instinct. It's a sickness only in respect of not being able to link the physical with the non-physical (yet). Other, non-physical entities have their own survival instinct appropriate to their surroundings.

(snip...)It's kind of like all Western ambitions being material, that would perhaps sum it up. No tribal belonging, too much individualism, a lack of expressive bonding, that sort of thing. It felt like a heart trap...

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 762570

It's all for good reason, I assure you. It's not as bad as may be thought.

Perhaps there is no real "materiality". Non-physical things can also be thought of as material because there is not really any difference between the two compositions.