I remember responding to Mr Keating's post in a manner which would have allowed him to retract without losing face. Instead the thread disappeared, though he did off handedly admit to not being infallible before that happened in response to another Catholic poster's apparent belief in his inability to post anything incorrect.

rotfl - I remember that John

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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

If you can't realise that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.

One does not grow closer to God by being dishonest. Those who are banned should be marked as such.

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"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality." St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."St. Theodore Studite

If you can't realize that the moderators are, at the end of the day, only people, who are trying to grow closer to God and His Son, and can only mock them from a distance, it only confirms their actions against you.

So MS, are you one of those making this same accusation, except on its flip side, against the Orthodox for their FAILURE TO POST on the new Eastern Forum in defense of themselves???

I mean, exactly where would you like us to draw attention to the dark and evil deeds being committed on CAF, such that we can HELP the evildoers draw closer to God, and NOT confirm their evil actions against us???

I mean, have YOU admonished them to be truthful and open, and thus repent from their ways?

Arsenios

« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 04:59:50 PM by maqhth »

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Reader Arsenios

Watch what you do...You may be the only Bible...That some will ever read...

--------------"If you dont surrender and put down your weapons, our arrows will block out the sun !"

"Good...................Then we shall fight in the shade"

Leonides,King of the Spartans

The Spartans had great quotes... When Athens had them surrounded, out manned, and blocaded with ships, and were demanding their surrender, or be invaded, the Athenians said to them: "And when we invade, because or your obstinence in your failure to surrender, if we prevail, we will kill every last man of you over the age of 10, and we will enslave and sell to the barbarians all your women and children and old people, and utterly destroy your towns and cities...

And the spartan commander answered with one word:

"EI"

[IF]

And Athens invaded, and lost the war...

Arsenios

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Reader Arsenios

Watch what you do...You may be the only Bible...That some will ever read...

So MS, are you one of those making this same accusation, except on its flip side, against the Orthodox for their FAILURE TO POST on the new Eastern Forum in defense of themselves???

No.

Quote

I mean, exactly where would you like us to draw attention to the dark and evil deeds being committed on CAF, such that we can HELP the evildoers draw closer to God, and NOT confirm their evil actions against us???

You may say whatever you like, wherever you like, but my initial sympathies with the Orthodox are quickly waning as a direct result of posts like this one, and the tone they take.

Quote

I mean, have YOU admonished them to be truthful and open, and thus repent from their ways?

Arsenios

I have spoken with them, yes. But, I am still undecided as to whether there exists something from which to repent.

Yes at times things could get very hmmmmm looking for the word I want mmmmmmm interesting ? Spirited ?

However taking action 2 weeks after someone has last posted is just NOT ON.

That is my main growse

To me there is a degree of injustice , even spitefulness.

The labels are still not there - oh except on other folk in other fora

« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 06:26:05 PM by the slave »

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

I have to say that there were some issues of charity from both sides. From having witnessed hundreds of discussions on CAF, though, the same amount of issues present themselves within all the other forum areas...That said, I think the amount of resistance from both sides added to the decision to do away with "foreign invaders." That degree of resistance was not present within the non-Catholic area. What troubles me is that within the non-Catholic section, the treatment of Muslim posters (with exceptions) is worse than any I had ever seen in the EC sub-forum...

Do you really think, Athanasios, that "simple information exchange" is even desirable, when the salvation of souls is at stake? Have you ever read an anathema? Does it sound at all like a "simple information exchange"

Arsenios

Under that phrase (maybe not the best word usage available) I put the explanations of the faith and reasons why they are correct and other viewpoints are incorrect. Remember, only the Holy Spirit can convert a soul - ours is not to convert, but to converse.

P.S. - I don't know about you, but I lack the authority to issue an anathema.

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Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

I have to say that there were some issues of charity from both sides. From having witnessed hundreds of discussions on CAF, though, the same amount of issues present themselves within all the other forum areas...That said, I think the amount of resistance from both sides added to the decision to do away with "foreign invaders." That degree of resistance was not present within the non-Catholic area. What troubles me is that within the non-Catholic section, the treatment of Muslim posters (with exceptions) is worse than any I had ever seen in the EC sub-forum...

What do you mean "worse" with the Muslim posters?

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I have to say that there were some issues of charity from both sides. From having witnessed hundreds of discussions on CAF, though, the same amount of issues present themselves within all the other forum areas...That said, I think the amount of resistance from both sides added to the decision to do away with "foreign invaders." That degree of resistance was not present within the non-Catholic area. What troubles me is that within the non-Catholic section, the treatment of Muslim posters (with exceptions) is worse than any I had ever seen in the EC sub-forum...

Thats so true ..the moderators very rarely intervened if at all in the R.C. moslem discussions .They let the Catholic posters have afield day insulting the prophet of islam also in the mormon /R.C. discussions ..i actually complained to the moderators about that once nothing was done about it ...what iv noticed, if the some of the catholics are losing a debate they turn to insults....yesterday there was a discussion by a very educated evangelical protestant about the pope his office his succession not of peter but of paul and the imaculate conception of mary ,this guy was so good to point the error from scripture and the early church fathers very cool and calmly that scripture and the holy fathers proved that there wasn't anything as a pope or a pope with supreme powers and that mother mary was born like you and i ...he was so good only one catholic or two tryed to debate with him the other catholics were insulting him ...i tryed looking for his post over there today i can't find it ;;they must of removed it.........stashko

I mean that the Muslim posters are treated poorly. At least in the EC forum, people still respected one another and there were fewer snide remarks and baseless attacks. Everyone seemed to have a close relationship despite disagreements and were willing to discuss...One may disagree with Islamic teachings, but to blindly and carelessly curse their prophet and uncharitably call Islam a religion of terror that rejects God is both rude and ungodly. I can't imagine wanting to be a Christian after being attacked the way some have been. I know for a fact that many Muslims on Islamic forums are reluctant to post on CAF because they know how unfairly others have been treated.

Thats so true ..the moderators very rarely intervened if at all in the R.C. moslem discussions .They let the Catholic posters have afield day insulting the prophet of islam also in the mormon /R.C. discussions ..i actually complained to the moderators about that once nothing was done about it ...what iv noticed, if the some of the catholics are losing a debate they turn to insults....yesterday there was a discussion by a very educated evangelical protestant about the pope his office his succession not of peter but of paul and the imaculate conception of mary ,this guy was so good to point the error from scripture and the early church fathers very cool and calmly that scripture and the holy fathers proved that there wasn't anything as a pope or a pope with supreme powers and that mother mary was born like you and i ...he was so good only one catholic or two tryed to debate with him the other catholics were insulting him ...i tryed looking for his post over there today i can't find it ;;they must of removed it.........stashko

I see that "East and West" has started a thread "Debate on Essence and Energies" but he is not looking for a debate but an opportunity to ridicule Eastern Catholic theology. This is obvious in his last posting in the thread. The Eastern Catholics have to endure being trashed even in the new Forum which is devoted to them!

I see that "East and West" has started a thread "Debate on Essence and Energies" but he is not looking for a debate but an opportunity to ridicule Eastern Catholic theology. This is obvious in his last posting in the thread. The Eastern Catholics have to endure being trashed even in the new Forum which is devoted to them!

There was one post in another thread where he went so far as to equate the essence/energies idea with ditheism. It's a shame because he claims to be an Eastern Catholic. I think it was at that point that I decided it's really not worth reading anymore.

There was one post in another thread where he went so far as to equate the essence/energies idea with ditheism. It's a shame because he claims to be an Eastern Catholic. I think it was at that point that I decided it's really not worth reading anymore.

Oh yeah! That's the one I started to post in and then quickly gave up...

You will find them on page 2 of a thread about "A historical explanation of how things came to be "

He even brings up the matter of a certain meeting referenced in Reply 580 [ written by the Irish Hermit ] in this thread

I have to say I wonder how long these will last in their original unedited form.

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

He even brings up the matter of a certain meeting referenced in Reply 580 [ written by the Irish Hermit ] in this thread

On two occasions Patriarch Bartholomew has participated in a limited way in the Liturgy of the Word at a Mass celebrated by Pope John Paul II. The Patriarch has attended Mass, NOT vested in eucharistic vestments but simply in his bishop's mandyas which is worn by non-celebrating bishops at any liturgical service. His deacon has read the Gospel in Greek and a Latin deacon in Latin. He also offered some prayer during the Liturgy of the Word; after that he has retired to the side and sat down for the rest of the Mass. He has taken no part in the actual Eucharist and nor has he partaken of communion. This is a far cry from concelebration of the Eucharist as claimed by the Catholic Answers article.

Now in fairness [ I can't believe I'm saying this ] She didn't say that the label would be there for all to see .

She just said they would be banned

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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

Although I have decided to refrain from posting at the Latinized Eastern Catholic forum at CAF, I commend Irish Melkite for his wonderful posts there (especially the two recently mentioned in this thread).

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"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality." St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."St. Theodore Studite

*Now isn't it the oddest thing that I have signed up twice in the last 36 hours and asked to have Banned shown under my name and yet Catherine Grant will not do this.

She prefers to continue to promulgate the lie that I am not banned. What price truth?

Father, in America, the practice of publicly labeling violators of social convention (cf. The Scarlet Letter's bright red "A") died out with the Puritans. Now, we just do it secretly.

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

I see that "East and West" has started a thread "Debate on Essence and Energies" but he is not looking for a debate but an opportunity to ridicule Eastern Catholic theology. This is obvious in his last posting in the thread. The Eastern Catholics have to endure being trashed even in the new Forum which is devoted to them!

I believe the creation of the thread was my fault...

The thread is a split off from another where "East and West" made a terrible remark defacing the Eastern distinction. I flagged it and told Catherine it was offensive and an appropriate action be taken against this often polemical poster.

She apparently made a new thread for his attack, and replied to me that it had been handled. I just responded to her in kind:Catherine,

I appreciate that you took some action, but my offense (and others) did not come from a derailed thread but from a poster who blatantly disregarded a belief of Byzantine Catholics and insulted it.

This is another stark example of this forum is now a hunting grounds against Eastern belief, and I know that is not your intent. Why is it acceptable for a Latin Catholic to call an Eastern belief un-Christian and a saint of the Eastern Catholics someone no better than Martin Luther?

"East and West" the poster is polemical and offensive, I would humbly request some appropriate action be taken besides allowing him his own thread to denounce an Eastern Catholic tradition.

But, I am still undecided as to whether there exists something from which to repent.

Magic,

The current treatment of your fellow Eastern and Oriental Catholics should be reason enough.

I believe CAF realized how bad their actions originally were and subsequently compensated. They even had Michael banned in the beginning, it was all a political move. If CAF was concerned about ridding the Catholic-Orthodox feud once and for all, and making it a lesson, they surely would have flown the "banned" banner on the "offenders," or at least removed them all together as they did our collection of threads.

Please also note that none of the Latin Catholics who were equally as volatile, and often the instigators, were banned.

I mean that the Muslim posters are treated poorly. At least in the EC forum, people still respected one another and there were fewer snide remarks and baseless attacks. Everyone seemed to have a close relationship despite disagreements and were willing to discuss...One may disagree with Islamic teachings, but to blindly and carelessly curse their prophet and uncharitably call Islam a religion of terror that rejects God is both rude and ungodly. I can't imagine wanting to be a Christian after being attacked the way some have been. I know for a fact that many Muslims on Islamic forums are reluctant to post on CAF because they know how unfairly others have been treated.

I don't know. It might be experience under/with the muslims, and also seeing what is put on some ultra fundamentalist Protestant sites, that the stuff on CAF seemed tame.

Once, when I saw a muslim (ahmadi) link to one of those Protestant sites on Catholicism, I posted that he might want to see what the same site said on Islam, but watch out as "those people play rough."

One thing: on EC there was/is a lot in common to respect. That's not the case on NCR.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

The current treatment of your fellow Eastern and Oriental Catholics should be reason enough.

I believe CAF realized how bad their actions originally were and subsequently compensated. They even had Michael banned in the beginning, it was all a political move. If CAF was concerned about ridding the Catholic-Orthodox feud once and for all, and making it a lesson, they surely would have flown the "banned" banner on the "offenders," or at least removed them all together as they did our collection of threads.

Please also note that none of the Latin Catholics who were equally as volatile, and often the instigators, were banned.

Peace and God Bless.

Yes, I've just taken a peak, and I see that Hesychios is back. He pointed out, when the question came to "Eastern Catholic History" that that included the pre-union Orthodox, and thus that should be covered, according to the rules that the mods set up, in Non Catholic Religion. Evidently they don't like consistency.

Except when it comes to uniformity. Yeshua, I'm glad to see you come to the aid of the Hesychists, since you being a Maronite, you don't have a dog in that fight, just looking out for your fellow Easterners. I see that Jimmy also is doing so (even, as he admits, he doesn't personally like the essence/energies distinction terminology). I'm afraid your assessment of the situation is accurate. The inquisiton lives.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 04:55:16 PM by ialmisry »

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

Except when it comes to uniformity. Yeshua, I'm glad to see you come to the aid of the Hesychists, since you being a Maronite, you don't have a dog in that fight, just looking out for your fellow Easterners. I'm afraid your assessment of the situation is accurate. The inquisiton lives.

I had a (hopefully) productive chat with Catherine over PM. She expressed her concern in not knowing how to handle people calling particular beliefs heretical, and since it happens in the Non-Cath and Apologist forums, the Eastern Catholics should be able to hold their own. This was my response:

I agree Eastern Catholics should be able to defend their beliefs in a discussion, but when labels of "heretic" are thrown around, Catholicity doubted, and downright insulting phrases (like East and West's ubiquitous posts that I have been addressing) we cross the realm of debate and go into sheer attacks that resemble nothing of Christian charity. If someone brings up valid questions and concerns over a belief, say for instance my own irk about purgatory, I believe it is appropriate for me to present what I was taught as a Maronite and then present tradition that supports it. The minute I start calling St. Aquinas a heretic, non-Christian, and that he is no better than Martin Luther, I have crossed the line, and your [being Catherine] position comes into play. The failure of the last forum was that this line was crossed by both sides, and no action was taken.

Even though Hesychasm isn't a part of where I come from, even so far to where Jimmy and I have our own reservations, it doesn't allow others to come in and suddenly make outcries and labels that are not debatably sound and outright insulting.

If the (CAF) is really the most read catholic board, it is an amazing thing that they do treat all things Eastern with such contempt now.They could have simply dissolved the entire subforum, and simply moved all things Eastern to another more generic forum.

Instead, new forum, simply serves to not only showcase disinformation on Eastern Christianity, but to visibly demonstrate what abhorrence that these catholics have for the truth held in the East. All without giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves, or even give a modicum of hackamore to the Latin hate machine.

These new moderators are prime examples of why the RCC has been distrusted in the East for a 1,000 years.It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I just got banned from CA for mentioning the name change of the old thread! I didn't even realize I was messing up! Arrgh.

So now I know how you all feel. Bummer!

Welcome Joab.

I notice that they DID put banned under your name right away. I guess you are so wicked (LOL) that your don't merit the courtesy that we are told is extended to Fr. Ambrose et alia on why they do not appear as banned.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

If the (CAF) is really the most read catholic board, it is an amazing thing that they do treat all things Eastern with such contempt now.They could have simply dissolved the entire subforum, and simply moved all things Eastern to another more generic forum.

Instead, new forum, simply serves to not only showcase disinformation on Eastern Christianity, but to visibly demonstrate what abhorrence that these catholics have for the truth held in the East. All without giving us an opportunity to defend ourselves, or even give a modicum of hackamore to the Latin hate machine.

These new moderators are prime examples of why the RCC has been distrusted in the East for a 1,000 years.It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Bile must be the gravy best served up with these Latin propagandists.

Yum

I noticed that someone posted on how the forum change was better and those who were interested only is schism don't post know because they're conscience doesn't allow it (written in derision). No mention of those who were banned but whose profiles don't show it.

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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

I noticed that someone posted on how the forum change was better and those who were interested only is schism don't post know because they're conscience doesn't allow it (written in derision). No mention of those who were banned but whose profiles don't show it.

I think that was me and what I got banned for because I believe it violated a new rule the mod made on Thanksgiving day that I failed to heed I guess. I never did know when to shut up. That part was edited out though.

I notice that they DID put banned under your name right away. I guess you are so wicked (LOL) that your don't merit the courtesy that we are told is extended to Fr. Ambrose et alia on why they do not appear as banned.

They sure did. No warning either. I was shocked because I didn't realize I had broken the "no mention of the old thread rule".

"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."- St. John Maximovitch

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

They banned you? I'm really surprised at the actions of CAF. I'm glad you've joined us here, though!

God bless,

Adam (ForeverAdam)

Yes they did. I guess I deserved it because I unwittingly broke a rule that was bannable. Seems the new moderator isn't fooling around. I had read it too just yesterday and even saw mention of it here.

This was at the end of post I made trying to answer anothers question as to the history of Eastern Catholics:

Quote

In fact, when this thread was called Eastern Christianity such discord was widely sewn in this thread. Since the change for the better name (Eastern Catholic) those who professed Catholics as heretics left in protest claiming to not be able to remain here in good conscience. They could find no purpose without a schismatic agenda to propagate.

I guess I deserved it. I'm an idiot! Thats what I get for being a curmudeon. I am sorry.

I also wrote that it seemed apparent that because of Orthodox inactivity you all apparently weren't interested in unity.

This was before I knew you were all banned and it wasn't showing though. I am sorry for that as well.