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I must apologize to Dyran, two2tango, Jose Luis, and others for the lack of clarity in my position on the Spanish on-topic and off-topic debate. I changed my position, and you have heard two different versions, and this has led to a misunderstanding. Let me clarify my position now.

I feel strongly that a person who wants to use ProZ.com for nothing but work should be able to do so. In fact, I often refer to ProZ.com as a \"workplace.\" At the same time, it is very natural for a social side to emerge in our community. The off-topic postings, specifically in Spanish or by Spanish speakers, have added a lot to our community. Therefore, in the interest of accommodating both work and play, it made sense to me that adding an additional forum specifically for Spanish off-topic postings would give everyone the most control over their ProZ.com environment. Everyone would get what they wanted, I thought.

I was wrong. Given the comments, explanations, and activity levels since I split the forum in two, it is clear that my solution was not the best.

After further consultation with two2tango, I have decided to try a new approach: postings that are off-topic in nature will be made in the same \"Spanish\" forum, but they will be marked specifically as \"off-topic\" at the time they are posted (or afterwards stamped as such, by two2tango.) Everyone will be given the ability to choose whether or not to make off-topic postings visible. If you make them visible, you will see a single forum with both on- and off-topic postings. If you make them invisible, you will see only on-topic postings. OK?

If this is acceptable, we will make the changes by the end of next week.

two2tango and I have been in communication at every step in the development of this issue. If there was any doubt about their role, let me clear it up: Enrique and Haydee are doing an outstanding job as moderators, and what they do they do with my full support. ProZ.com is lucky to have members like them giving of their time to make a better resource! In the future, I will be more apt to leave the decisions for this community in their capable hands. Please support them.

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Yours is a VERY clever solution, offering the best of both worlds to anyone involved.

Now it is up to us members to put the remaining differences behind.

There\'s no place like proZ.

Thank you for your support!

[addsig]

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Dyran AltenburgUnited States Local time: 15:50 English to Spanish + ...

The best of both worlds

Dec 6, 2002

Quote:

On 2002-12-06 16:42, Henry wrote:

Everyone will be given the ability to choose whether or not to make off-topic postings visible. If you make them visible, you will see a single forum with both on- and off-topic postings. If you make them invisible, you will see only on-topic postings. OK?

Indeed, this seems like the most Salomonic way to solve the problem. This same approach seems to work very well in other high-traffic language-related mailing lists like Lantra so, if people make the extra effort of labeling their off-topic messages accordingly, it should work quite well here too.

The only thing that still remains pending is the moderators concern on what criteria to use when labeling on- or off-topic threads.

Since it has become apparent that different people have different ideas about what is or not directly related to translation and language, it seems having some guidelines might help in this case.

Any pointers you could give us, Henry? I\'m sure we could all benefit from the exchange.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-12-06 17:41 ]

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The only thing that still remains pending is the moderators concern on what criteria to use when labeling on- or off-topic threads.

Since it has become apparent that different people have different ideas about what is or not directly related to translation and language, it seems having some guidelines might help in this case.

I understand Dyran\'s concern, and of course Henry\'s words are always well received.

On the other hand, since labelling is a lot less drastic (and much more reversable) than moving, I believe we forum members can find our own way here

Enrique[addsig]

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Aurora HumaránArgentina Local time: 16:50 English to Spanish + ...

As I once proposed: Proz, not Prozac !

Dec 6, 2002

I feel this has been an important lesson for all of us as a community. Most of us have put our energies, our thoughts, our passions trying to settle our our differences.

Some people may say...why so much passion?

It is because we care SO MUCH about this Forum that the debate became so strong, so passionate at times. If our level of involvement had been lower, the whole situation would have been different. But WE LOVE this place.

I´m sure we´ll be able to make this Forum the nice place it used to be. Our pride.

Thanks to EVERYBODY: my colleagues, the Moderators and Henry.

Have a nice weekend!

Au

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Let\'s hope everything will return to normality. I\'m not so optimistic as Aurora about what we have seen in this forum lately. To me it seemed as if somebody had opened Pandora\'s box and I saw very little construction in all this. Hopefully it has been double locked for a long while.

I have a very high opinion of our moderators\' work, too.

Thanks everybody for working this out.

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My support to this decision and to our A1 moderators Enrique and Haydée.

Claudia

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xxxmaxLocal time: 12:50 English to Dutch + ...

Les jeux sont fait, rien ne va plus ...

Dec 6, 2002

I am very happy to read Henry specified and explained his point of view and the house rules regarding this utmost controversial topic. It is his place, his business, we happen to be his guests, and as guests, we must accept the conditions, and support the moderators\' functions.

I also hope, as Patricia mentions, that the Spanish fora gradually come back to their usual pace.

Cheers and hopefully back to the \"Rthym and Blues\" ...

Cristina

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Gabriela TenenbaumUruguay Local time: 16:50 English to Spanish + ...

Nice one

Dec 7, 2002

I hope this will end with the strained atmosphere that reigned the last days...

Thanks a lot Henry for finding a way to make everybody happier.

And I do also agree with my colleagues regarding the excellent job the tutu\'s (TwotoTangoes)are doing. They are not only very nice people but great moderators as well.

We support you people and really appreciate your work.

Hugs everybody

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I will post in English since it is an answer for Henry. Well, it is for him but also for everyone else who wants to reflect. It is a fragment of what I posted in the English Off-Topic today:

\"I have made my own share of mistakes, opinions of my character, interpretations of my past and reoccurring memories from it, and guilt that I will not dwell on but will probably follow me until the end of my days. I have received my share of blame and it will be there despite my accepting or denying it. Blame is present as long as the blamer dwells, and I seem to have caught the infatuation of someone with stupendous capabilities there. I could continue this to recount reasons, or perhaps excuses, for wrong every thing I feel I have done or those, which others feel were wrong. I could recount my entire past and blast down accusations on a per-item basis, but it would be unseemly to accompany a poem with that garbage. However, I do plan on journaling these things elsewhere to protect myself and what I remember, for what it\'s worth. I don\'t know every side to what I\'ve done, but I know enough of them.

What I do know is that I am still human; I will make more mistakes in the future and no amount of \"friendly\" advice will change that fact. I will continue to feel guilty about things that I\'ve done and try to patch them up in the only ways I know how: friendship and assistance. I haven\'t always giving generous helpings of either, but it was always my intention and I do believe I am a good person.\"

Henry, thank you for making ProZ.com a cosy working site Thank you for talking to us. Thank you for being a reasonable and understanding person.

Two2tango: Thank you for standing strong and taking so much from all of us. For your patience, for your integrity and for all you do, behind the stage, to keep this passion-energy-love-hate-craziness filled forum working.

Colleagues: Thank you all!

Happy weekend and Happy ProZing!

JL Villanueva

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