I have always thought the President was open to libertarian thinking. He went to Washington to shake things up, and Rand is about as anti-establishment as anyone who will talk to Trump. This is the lesson. In order to promote liberty thinking and expand the base, we have to build relationships with people who have a bigger audience. Trump has strong support from his voters, and I think they will be amenable to liberty thinking if we can get the ideas out there. This is how education takes place.

Last edited by euphemia; 10-08-2017 at 07:01 PM.

"There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

If you look at what is coming out of the administration in the form of actual work, it strongly reflects the religious thinking of the people in his inner circle, and there are liberty ideas in that mix. Trump is a deal maker. He will talk to anyine who comes to the table. Bless Rand for hanging in there and keeping the conversation going.

"There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

I have always thought the President was open to libertarian thinking. He went to Washington to shake things up, and Rand is about as anti-establishment as anyone who will talk to Trump. This is the lesson. In order to promote liberty thinking and expand the base, we have to build relationships with people who have a bigger audience. Trump has strong support from his voters, and I think they will be amenable to liberty thinking if we can get the ideas out there. This is how education takes place.

Trump got to be president by doing the exact opposite of what you said. He didn't build any relationships. He made enemies.
Lots and lots and lots of enemies.
He made enemies of people that aren't well liked.
And everyone who hates his enemies voted for him, and every single one of those voters either didn't know that Trump is a charlatan, or they knew and didn't care because it was enough that he wasn't reaching out to or making relationships with any of his enemies.

He's delivering on precisely zero of his promises, and nobody cares. He is still setting himself up as an enemy and that's going to carry him through his entire first term.
I'm not going to be at all surprised if it takes him through a second term.

I do fervently hope that, three years from now, I'm not the only one who isn't surprised.

There are no crimes against people.
There are only crimes against the state.
And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

At times Trump can be full of hot air and bit too hungry for validation from others among many other flaws.. but he does some to have few almost unique traits too that are almost refreshing. Trump probably gets a lot of bad advice from yes men and he seems quite pliable, it will be good if Rand can try to educate him a bit on liberty ideas and goad him into doing a little good.

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

Trump got to be president by doing the exact opposite of what you said. He didn't build any relationships. He made enemies.

Nothing like a lot of negativity and denial to make it fun.

Originally Posted by fisharmor

He's delivering on precisely zero of his promises, and nobody cares. He is still setting himself up as an enemy and that's going to carry him through his entire first term.

No, he's revealing the real enemy. Republicans think Democrats are the enemy. What Trump has shown is that establishment Republicans are also the enemy. This is a gift.

I would say that good SCOTUS and lower court appointments are going well. I think the religious exemption for the Obamacare birth control mandate is good. It's certainly more than all the so-called pro-life presidents and congress were able to do.

Trump is renewing ties with allies after Obama snubbed them.

He's rolling back regulations.

Some good things are happening if you care to open your eyes and see them.

"There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

I voted for multiple Obamacare repeals in the Senate, but the fact is a handful of my colleagues who had voted for repeal when it didnít matter in 2015, campaigned on it, raised money on it ó well, they just flat out broke their words. Real reform is now stalled.. Or is it?

While we should and will keep fighting for repeal through Congress, there is another route to fixing some of the biggest problems Obamacare has caused ó and Iím hopeful that President Trump and I can make it happen, with your help.

Iím talking about the freedom to join large groups to get better prices. Iím talking about being able to buy insurance across state lines. Iím talking about the flexibility to buy the type of plan YOU want. Iím talking abut protection from preexisting conditions WITHOUT a government mandate.

Theyíre called Association Health Plans, and Iíve been working with months with President Trump and his cabinet to get this done through executive order and regulation changes.

It could happen any day and it will be a big deal.

But until its final I donít want to take any chances ó will you show the White House you Support our plan for better health care?Support the Plan

Itís important that the White House and the public hear from you, today.

You see, the fake news media wants you to believe there is nothing that can be done. Itís not true, and hopefully we are about to prove them wrong.

I donít believe in making new laws without Congress. But in this case the law already exists, a 1970s law that was badly mangled and restricted by previous administrations.

The President already has the authority to legalize these new groups and plans, all he has to do is act.

I believe he will ó and Iíve been pushing and helping for months, lending expertise and ideas to the process.

When this is announced, it will be HUGE Ė Congress failed, but President Trump and I acted.

You will see the results:

Millions of people who now go at it alone or in very small groups will join and make the CONSUMER THE KING, with increased bargaining power and better prices

Cheaper insurance that works for you will be legal again

You will be able to buy across state lines, opening up competition for the best plans.

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

What specific part of the article do you have any potential issue with?

How about lying in the first sentence?

The Kentucky senator has opposed the president on just about everything; from the first GOP budget to tax reform to Syria strikes to Trump's Saudi Arabian arms deal to his Afghanistan policy to the debt ceiling and hurricane funding to multiple attempts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.

Rand was quite active in attempting to repeal Obamacare, and worked extensively with Trump on it. Rand voted "yes" on the repeals that came to a vote. It was McCain (and Collins and Murkowski) who sided with the Democrats. This was the biggest, most high-profile objective so far to come to a vote. How many if those other items have come to a vote yet? I must have missed the vote on the new tax plan.

Journalism fail.

Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

Rand was quite active in attempting to repeal Obamacare, and worked extensively with Trump on it. Rand voted "yes" on the repeals that came to a vote. It was McCain (and Collins and Murkowski) who sided with the Democrats. This was the biggest, most high-profile objective so far to come to a vote. How many if those other items have come to a vote yet? I must have missed the vote on the new tax plan.

Journalism fail.

They aren't wrong, they are just presenting the issue from the mainstream narrative to show why, in theory, they should be against each other, when in fact they are friends.

The fact is, Rand was against these proposals that Trump allegedly supported to repeal and replace parts of Obamacare, the issue, as Rand explained, was that they were replacing it with something that wasn't any better than what we had.

They might have worded it a little bit better with the repeal and replace wording to make it sound more watered down, but otherwise this is a fantastic article that should give people here a lot of hope that we will be able to affect more positives changes.

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

ďForce the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.Ē - Anonymous Poster

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

President Trump will allow Americans to buy healthcare across state lines, which is a plan spearheaded by Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).
The president will likely sign an executive order this week that will allow health associations to cater to customers in different states.

“They’ll be able to buy, they’ll be able to cross state lines and they will get great competitive healthcare, and it will cost the United States nothing,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “With Congress the way it is, I decided to take it upon myself, so we’ll be announcing that soon as far as the signing’s concerned, but it’s largely worked out.”

As Infowars reported on Sept. 20, Sen. Paul was talking to President Trump about implementing this plan – and we said it would be announced in the coming weeks, which is now.

“If 15 million people could get together to buy their insurance, guess what, they would get a cheaper price, they would get protection against preexisting conditions, and I think they would get most of the things they want,” Paul stated.

Don't pay the media to attack Rand
Every time you click on the attack articles, you are literally paying them for attacking Rand. If you really want people to see, quote the entire article and break the link.

ďForce the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.Ē - Anonymous Poster

Trump is extremely easy to get along with so long as you care more about principles than you do ego. Most politicians are the opposite, which is why they have such a lousy relationship with Trump. Rand doesn't mind listening to hours of talk about Golf or recaps of what is happening on "The Shows" so long as it advances his agenda. He doesn't mind giving Trump credit or kissing his ass in public if it gets Rand what he wants. Ronald Reagan had a paperweight on his desk that said, "It is amazing what you can accomplish so long as nobody cares who gets the credit". Rand probably has one that says, "It is amazing what you can accomplish so long as Donald Trump gets all the credit". Rand just gets it.