The Fall of Atheism

Is it just me, or does everybody on here sound like pathetic politicians, just trying to make themselves sound more believable putting others down than proving themselves? Has anybody heard of the phrase, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar?," or has the complex design of human intelligence been reduced to stupidity?

i believe in God because i've had things happen in my life that isnt explained, that could only be, such as "an inside joke," that makes me realize "aha, somebody up there has a sense of humor." now it sounds pretty idiotic, yes, so no need to continue your hate rants that dont particularly daze me, but nonetheless, i just have a presence sense around everywhere i go.

i apologize again for the title and the crude intro, but anywho, have you guys ever thought, "what happens if i'm wrong?" like one of you said, "wishful thinking does not make something true." i've always longed for long lost answers to how the Big Bang supposedly went down, and it just isnt logical. nothing --> something? no offense, but even if you say you have sufficient evidence, what stops this from happening again? and why hasnt it yet? and what exactly "banged together" if nothing existed @.@? lots of questions, i know, but rather than being negative, i hope you guys could be helpful to my thinking.

at the part where i said if you guys ever thought to yourselves "what if you were wrong?" i mean, what if you DID die and instead of just eternal nothingness, you actually stand in front of God and he asks you "...why didnt you believe in me?"

You mention that you have a 'presence sense around' you everywhere you go - I would highly recommend a regime of anti-psychotic pharmaceuticals and see if that persists.

You ask, what if I'm wrong. I'm not - the Christian concept of god contradicts itself in so many ways that it is, for a fact, wrong. Given that, if I were you I would worry a lot about the possibility that Islam is correct. Since you have never given serious consideration to other gods, what are you going to do if you end up standing in front of Allah trying to explain why you were worshiping one of his prophets instead?

You mentioned the Big Bang but have obviously read nothing scientific about it - please upgrade your knowledge of the subject before trying to engage in a discussion about it. About the 2012 thing - that is a joke, right?

Once you introduce supernatural entities -- that is to say entities not bound by the laws of nature -- you really open up infinite possibilities, none of which are predictable. Whichever god a person may believe in is actually just one possibility out of infinity. This includes an infinite number of possibilites where worshipping the wrong god, or even worshipping the right god in the wrong way still results in eternal damnation. Can we favour one supernatural explanation over another? Probably not. How would that be possible? What methodology would we use?

An all powerful being could, without a doubt, deceive us. A being powerful beyond our comprehension cannot be restricted by a human line of reasoning or interpretation. This question, "What happens if I'm wrong?" applies evenly to everyone once we open up the door to supernatural explanations. There are no sound foundations on which to place bets.

That being the case, one might as well live by the sincerity of their convictions. If someone searches earnestly with an open mind and that leads them to God somehow, I really don't have an issue with that as long as their faith is not used to justify hate, oppression or violence. I don't agree with a godly viewpoint, and if my opinion is called upon I will argue against it, but I don't fault or condemn that person for reaching such a conclusion.

In my life, I have simply not encountered a compelling reason to hold faith in any religion or supernatural view I have encountered to date. While a naturalistic explanation of all the universe is far from complete, it does have plenty of supporting evidence to date and is largely cohesive. If my views change, it will not be due to a fear of being wrong -- when it comes to nature and the universe I can guarantee a number of my views are wrong --, but rather because evidence and reason compels me to change my stance.

Why is it only 2012? I can answer that and you don't even have to be an atheist to find it a sensible answer. Because that's how long ago Christ was born (or rather, it's the best guesstimate a monk living in the Dark Ages could come up with)... not how long ago the earth was formed. Creationists understand this; they will claim the earth is at least 4000 years older than the birth of Christ--this is of course wrong but the point is no Christian could seriously believe the year number has anything to do with when the earth was created when it is supposed instead to have something to do with the birth of Christ. (Note the the Jewish (5771) and traditional Russian Orthodox years (7521 I think) are intended to be counts from the creation according to the bible--but also note they disagree with each other by about 2000 years in spite of meticulous scholarship behind those numbers, never mind Archbishop Usher putting it 6016 years ago and having that date of 4004 BC appear in KJV bibles' marginalia for centuries.)

Your question makes no sense to anyone on either side of the creationist/natural sciences dispute who has even the remotest clue what they are trying to uphold.

"what if you DID die and instead of just eternal nothingness, you actually stand in front of God and he asks you "...why didnt you believe in me?"

In the extremely improbable scenario of a god existing and for the sake of argument, I would say: which god are you? Why didn't you present any evidence of yourself? Why did you go to such great lengths to conceal yourself? Why did you allow rivers of blood to be spilt in your name and in endless religious conflict? Why all of the needless suffering when you could have intervened any time to fix things yet you did nothing.

You see what I mean? Any being who behaves like that is not worthy of worship. But it's ok because no such being exists in my view.

stand in front of God and he asks you "...why didnt you believe in me?"

When I saw so many people describing you in so many different ways, logic says most of them have to be wrong! And they just tend to believe the same thing the people around them believe, even though it's clear (to me) that none of them (or myself) have a direct line to you to confirm such beliefs.

If I'm taught by wise lovers of Allah that virgins are waiting for me if I just believe in you, am I supposed to believe it just because my village does, or because they'll harass me if I don't believe?

Sorry, but I was just using the brains that you gave me. I don't believe in things for selfish reasons. I just believe in things I think are probably true, and even then, I don't believe everything I think. I keep an open mind. Which is why I'm talking to you, right now. Hello?

at the part where i said if you guys ever thought to yourselves "what if you were wrong?" i mean, what if you DID die and instead of just eternal nothingness, you actually stand in front of God and he asks you "...why didnt you believe in me?"

Someone probably already mentioned this but you're making your way to pascal's wager. You think you can stand your ground on an atheist website with such platitudes? That's just silly. This isn't sunday school, the average IQ is higher. So what if you stand infront of Ra and he asks you why didn't believe in him? Or Allah? Or [insert name of of any other of the thousands of gods here] ?

"i've always longed for long lost answers to how the Big Bang supposedly went down, and it just isnt logical. nothing --> something? no offense, but even if you say you have sufficient evidence, what stops this from happening again? and why hasnt it yet? and what exactly 'banged together' if nothing existed @.@?"

Those are excellent questions, but considering that this is a natural universe that follows natural laws, it seems more illogical to me to suddenly make a jump form the natural to the supernatural for an explanation. Just because we don't know what the answer is beyond all doubt doesn't mean that we can't deduce it from the evidence we have gathered and observed. Maybe it has happened again, but we wouldn't have seen it, because we live in this and have no ability to peer beyond it.

You might think it is illogical that our universe's origin appears to be that all energy (and matter because matter is essentially stored energy) comes from seemingly nowhere, but that's because you are using intuitive thinking. Intuitive thinking can be correct and it can be notoriously wrong. It seems reasonable that all matter is solid. The desk that I am sitting and the chair that I am sitting on all feel solid. They feel like singular objects, but they aren't solid nor are they singular objects. What I think of as my desk or as my chair is actually countless numbers of atoms all bonded together by nuclear forces. Science has told us that out intuitive thinking is wrong. the objects we use everyday and, wonder of all wonders, our own bodies are made up of all this material. This matter is also comprised mostly of space. Empty, nothing-in-between-not-even-"air" space. Due to the disproportionate size of the electron "cloud" orbiting a nucleus (think soccer ball in the middle of a soccer field size disparity) every atom has a lot of space in it. Consequently, all matter, being built of atoms, also has a lot of space in it. What we feel when we touch an object isn't the object itself, but the nuclear forces repelling the atoms on the surface of our skin. Intuitive thinking would also tell you that you are one singular being, but there are billions upon billions of microscopic creatures living inside of you. Your body is an environment unto itself and everyone's is slightly different! Intuitive thinking would tell you that all the heavens revolve around us, but as discoveries through astronomy over centuries revealed, we revolve about a singular star as one planet of many, that star is part of a galaxy full of millions of stars like ours which is revolving around a super-massive black hole, and that galaxy is part of a universe that is full of millions if not billions of other galaxies just like it. In short, intuitive thinking is pretty terrible at explaining the mysteries of the natural universe; that's where science steps in to tell us how things are.

"at the part where i said if you guys ever thought to yourselves 'what if you were wrong?' i mean, what if you DID die and instead of just eternal nothingness, you actually stand in front of God and he asks you '...why didnt you believe in me?'"

Since I've become an atheist, I've never seriously considered this question. It's like asking me what I'd do if I found a magic lamp with a genie, or caught a leprechaun, or was attacked by a dragon. To me, it seems to be a hypothetical fantasy, but to answer your question... I'd probably tell him that I'm greatly disappointed in him. He's allowed his people to split off in to splinter groups, kill, torture, rape, and maim people in his name for millennia and done nothing to stop it. Where was his intervention then? Where was the fire that brought down Soddom and Gomorah? Where were the plagues that were visited on Egypt? Where were the modern day prophets wielding his power to make their voices heard? Where were the messages by Gabriel sent to the holy people? If all people are his children then why has he done so poorly in protecting them? If children are fighting and coming to blows, a father steps in and stops them. What kind of father allows them to do such terrible things to each other? I'd tell him he owes me an explanation, because for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being, he's done a terriblefucking job.

And for the record, genies are more trouble than they are worth, a leprechaun's gold is actually pyrite, and dragons just look like they want to eat you. They're really just big puppy dogs that feel with their mouths.