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Sneag wrote:I've just wasted half an hour of my life emailing Paddy Tipping for an explanation of why Stags are singled out for this treatment. If he bothers to reply I'll post it here.

Well done, although like you I expect (at best) a diplomatic reply with no explanation of the logic behind the tactic or why Mansfield are particularly targeted for this treatment.My attitude is that if you want people to cooperate fully with something that causes them nuisance, you need to get them on your side by convincing them using a logical argument. Perhaps there is one, it's just that I haven't heard it.

What a load of crap. Best thing about it is that a load of Stags and Notts fans went to AFC Mansfield afterwards and there ended up being 5 police cars turn up after the game as there was a load of trouble in the welfare! Had they left it as a 3pm kick off that wouldn't have happened.

Billy the fish wrote:Yep they could and away fans asked to stop in their seats for 10 mins after the final whistle.. nah nah never work that !!

But then home fans who exit via QL are mixing with away fans. This is how it used to be and it kicked off on a fairly regular basis.

Its funny how a few people on Stagsnet, annoyed that they have to walk a little further because a gate is closed think they know better than the police who are paid to ensure everyone is safe, and who have done a pretty good job in recent years of keeping the peace.

Just because a person in a psition of authority sayssomething or makes a decision, that doesn't make it automatically correct.

You should look up Milgram's electricution experiment. You'd have been frying people left & right just because the guy with the clipboard told you to.

But there approach is working. Hardly any trouble involving home fans at the Mill for years now.

I think if you compared the last 10 years since the end swap with the previous 10 years then I don't think it's made one iota of difference to the levels of crowd trouble.

The catalyst for the end change was trouble after the Donny game in 2004 which could have been averted just by keeping the Donny fans in 10 minutes. And to be perfectly honest even that level of trouble was piffling compared to what used to go off in the 70/80s.

The levels of segregation & crowd control measures are massively disproportionate to any issues we have now or have ever had in the past and are way OTT compared to anything I've seen at other grounds around the country.

Instead of passively accepting being treated like crap, take a look around and ask yourself is this in any way proportionate.

Went over to Hamburg a few weeks ago and caught a St Pauli game – people drinking and smoking all around and inside the ground, home fans and away fans sat apart but able to mingle in and outside of the ground. Fans with drums, massive flags and megaphones – 2 away fans sat on top of the barriers conducting the away fans singing and allowed to be there all game. 30,000 people and no hint of trouble – treat people like adults and 99% of them will behave like adults.

Controlled & Clueless. If this is the big life, well I ain't looking to live it.@watski

sw19stag wrote:Good job Forest and Sheff.Utd. have never had a history of any trouble otherwise both games would have been a 1pm KO.

There is a long history between them and probably their biggest grudge match after Derby. But their games hardly ever get moved, unless Sky say so. Maybe Gabbitas should get some tips off them on how to Police a crowd five times smaller without moving the kick off, closing public access and closing blocks of seats?

It's a complete joke.

What are they going to do if Stags reach the Championship, play behind closed doors? 7am kick-offs, close the town and board up every window?

sw19stag wrote:Good job Forest and Sheff.Utd. have never had a history of any trouble otherwise both games would have been a 1pm KO.

There is a long history between them and probably their biggest grudge match after Derby. But their games hardly ever get moved, unless Sky say so. Maybe Gabbitas should get some tips off them on how to Police a crowd five times smaller without moving the kick off, closing public access and closing blocks of seats?

It's a complete joke.

What are they going to do if Stags reach the Championship, play behind closed doors? 7am kick-offs, close the town and board up every window?

For heaven's sake don't give him any ideas

Theirs not to reason whyTheirs but to do and dieInto the valley of DeathRode the Six Hundred

Sneag wrote:I've just wasted half an hour of my life emailing Paddy Tipping for an explanation of why Stags are singled out for this treatment. If he bothers to reply I'll post it here.

Well done, although like you I expect (at best) a diplomatic reply with no explanation of the logic behind the tactic or why Mansfield are particularly targeted for this treatment.My attitude is that if you want people to cooperate fully with something that causes them nuisance, you need to get them on your side by convincing them using a logical argument. Perhaps there is one, it's just that I haven't heard it.

Finally got a reply from Paddy Tipping's office today. I'll post it later when I get home.

As you predicted Bradders mostly diplomatic twaddle. Some of his comments do not stand up to logical examination though & I will challenge him on it further.

Obviously the intelligence that was given only came from the mansfield police and we must be to blame!! Only down to the fact that the clownty fans must be angels along with those from over the otherside of the M1( and and also propping up the league ) because their match kicked off at 3pm.... how does that work?

sw19stag wrote:Good job Forest and Sheff.Utd. have never had a history of any trouble otherwise both games would have been a 1pm KO.

There is a long history between them and probably their biggest grudge match after Derby. But their games hardly ever get moved, unless Sky say so. Maybe Gabbitas should get some tips off them on how to Police a crowd five times smaller without moving the kick off, closing public access and closing blocks of seats?

It's a complete joke.

What are they going to do if Stags reach the Championship, play behind closed doors? 7am kick-offs, close the town and board up every window?

It was good of you to write to me about the policing of Mansfield Town games. Sorry it has taken a little while to respond, but I wanted to ask Nottinghamshire Police for more information before I replied.

I’m sure you will appreciate that every club is different and that the risk presented by each fixture has to be individually assessed, depending on the ground where the match is being played, travel arrangements of supporters, risk numbers and behaviours, overall numbers, the history between clubs and their position in the league, to name but a few factors.

Each season, on release of the fixtures, the club and police work together to provisionally assess the risk of each game and there is a window of opportunity for the club to request amendments to the football league. In relation to Mansfield Town, this occurred this year and a number of high-risk games were identified. An earlier kick-off creates a safer environment for all and represents better value for money than increasing the expense to the club of significantly more stewards and police at the game. Identifying and announcing amendments to the fixtures early is felt to be preferable, as it allows people to make plans; rather than making changes much closer to the fixture, which is more likely to adversely affect fans.

Due to the current make-up of teams in the league there are a number of fixtures this season that have been assessed as requiring policing.

Nottinghamshire Police and local football clubs enjoy a good, professional relationship and work together in order to maximise safety. The availability of alcohol and the length of time it is available to be consumed is strongly linked to the adverse behaviour of some individuals. Therefore, earlier kick-offs which limit the time alcohol can be consumed greatly assist in reducing risk.

I have been advised that keeping fans back at the end of the game was a tactic used some considerable years ago – this is now regarded as being disproportionate in the majority of cases and whilst it is still available as a tactic, there are other less restrictive ways of managing risk.

The decision to accommodate away fans in the North Stand was made by the club a number of years ago. Many away fans travel by train, so if they were in the South Stand, fans would still cross paths. Similarly, some Mansfield fans park to the south of the ground and so again, mixing and cross-over would still occur.

The decision to, on occasion, close the gate at the junction of the North Stand and the Ian Greaves Stand is made for safety reasons and provides a physical barrier to keep the risk of harm to all minimised. I have been assured that the opportunity to re-open the gate is taken as soon as it is felt safe to do so and whilst a small wait is required, this is an alternative to the detour described. Every effort is made by the police and the club to communicate in advance that the gate will be shut at specific fixtures.

You will be pleased to know that there is a fans’ representative on the SAG, allowing the fans’ voice to be heard. I hope this goes some way towards reassuring you that Nottinghamshire Police and the club work closely to ensure that all fans are able to arrive, enjoy the game and go home again as safely and swiftly as possible.

Why do so many get wound up by the locking of this gate?I agree the vast vast majority are not interested in any bother, but to believe there would be no trouble if it was left open beggars belief. Of course there would be and it would be the choke point for it for sure.Anyone who has been to any local derbies when we go away would testify to that. Look at Grimsby last year for example. Or Doncaster when men of my age were making 'attempts' to goad the Rovers fans and vice versa.The gate has to be locked even if it slightly inconveniences most of us.The story about bother at Forest Town afterwards emphasises that.Go to the games enjoy the atmosphere and chill, it's the morons that ruin it for everyone, and always will be.

sw19stag wrote:Good job Forest and Sheff.Utd. have never had a history of any trouble otherwise both games would have been a 1pm KO.

There is a long history between them and probably their biggest grudge match after Derby. But their games hardly ever get moved, unless Sky say so. Maybe Gabbitas should get some tips off them on how to Police a crowd five times smaller without moving the kick off, closing public access and closing blocks of seats?

It's a complete joke.

What are they going to do if Stags reach the Championship, play behind closed doors? 7am kick-offs, close the town and board up every window?

Sneag wrote:Anyhoo this is what Paddy Tipping (or one of his underlings) said.

Dear Stuart,

It was good of you to write to me about the policing of Mansfield Town games. Sorry it has taken a little while to respond, but I wanted to ask Nottinghamshire Police for more information before I replied.

I’m sure you will appreciate that every club is different and that the risk presented by each fixture has to be individually assessed, depending on the ground where the match is being played, travel arrangements of supporters, risk numbers and behaviours, overall numbers, the history between clubs and their position in the league, to name but a few factors.

Each season, on release of the fixtures, the club and police work together to provisionally assess the risk of each game and there is a window of opportunity for the club to request amendments to the football league. In relation to Mansfield Town, this occurred this year and a number of high-risk games were identified. An earlier kick-off creates a safer environment for all and represents better value for money than increasing the expense to the club of significantly more stewards and police at the game. Identifying and announcing amendments to the fixtures early is felt to be preferable, as it allows people to make plans; rather than making changes much closer to the fixture, which is more likely to adversely affect fans.

Due to the current make-up of teams in the league there are a number of fixtures this season that have been assessed as requiring policing.

Nottinghamshire Police and local football clubs enjoy a good, professional relationship and work together in order to maximise safety. The availability of alcohol and the length of time it is available to be consumed is strongly linked to the adverse behaviour of some individuals. Therefore, earlier kick-offs which limit the time alcohol can be consumed greatly assist in reducing risk.

I have been advised that keeping fans back at the end of the game was a tactic used some considerable years ago – this is now regarded as being disproportionate in the majority of cases and whilst it is still available as a tactic, there are other less restrictive ways of managing risk.

The decision to accommodate away fans in the North Stand was made by the club a number of years ago. Many away fans travel by train, so if they were in the South Stand, fans would still cross paths. Similarly, some Mansfield fans park to the south of the ground and so again, mixing and cross-over would still occur.

The decision to, on occasion, close the gate at the junction of the North Stand and the Ian Greaves Stand is made for safety reasons and provides a physical barrier to keep the risk of harm to all minimised. I have been assured that the opportunity to re-open the gate is taken as soon as it is felt safe to do so and whilst a small wait is required, this is an alternative to the detour described. Every effort is made by the police and the club to communicate in advance that the gate will be shut at specific fixtures.

You will be pleased to know that there is a fans’ representative on the SAG, allowing the fans’ voice to be heard. I hope this goes some way towards reassuring you that Nottinghamshire Police and the club work closely to ensure that all fans are able to arrive, enjoy the game and go home again as safely and swiftly as possible.

Yours sincerely,

Paddy Tipping Police and Crime Commissioner

Sounds like he's just quoting what he was told by the police. Strange that keeping fans back at the end of the game is seen as "disproportionate" but changing the kickoff to an awkward time is OK.