Guys, it was a casual info session. Things are still in the developing stages and there is no way to answer all the "what ifs" at this point. Especially concerning individual cases.

I don't see where you are drawing info as to withdrawing the Line trade. If anything, by the sounds of this - the Line trade is secure for at least the next 10-15 years. Theres something about Operators that makes them think they can do a Line or LCIS job. "I can lay wire", "I can change a stupid card". Yeah - and anyone can talk on the friggen radio so get over yourself. Again, I'm an operator sick of hearing other operators say these types of things.

I'm thinking the title of this thread may have been a bit misleading. And now we'll get people pop in thinking they'll be able to get info on something that's not really decided yet.

As for the many other questions I'm sure will pop up here by the merely curious onlookers.....here are some words to live by......

I dont understand how people can buy that argument. I know you army types ar allergic to anything air force but maybe you should come and see how our amalgamations worked out. The "super tech" things didnt exactly work out. In fact, the process has started to undo some of it.

"Jacks of all trades, masters of none"

You mean the 500 series and ATIS too? 'Cause the ATIS trade isn't exactly all that well sorted out IMO. Way to broad for one MOC.

I don't see the same similarities in these 2 imalgamations that are being discussed.

The way I see it, you join the Signals Corps as a CSIT (Sig Op or whatever you want to call it). Your basic trades training (QL3) will consist of some VERY basic introduction into the other trades. We're talking theory here people - Sig Ops will not be climbing pole, splicing fibre, swapping cards, or troubleshooting networks on a 100+/- day course when you consider the end state is an det operator. For all you operators who disagree - think back to your QL3. Rad theory, Antenna theory, Electricity theory, Basic EW, log books - now for some basic computer training, typing, voice procedure - what about Iris, the CI, PLGR/DAGR, SAS, LAN/LDN - don't forget another week (or so) each for setting up antennas, genny, det drills.....I'm going just from what I think is being taught at the school here - maybe I'm forgetting something. Oh - field Ex? I suppose that one is big. Anyway, it's impossible with the timeline given for this 3's course - no matter what way you look at it that an operator would leave with anything more than "some" exposure to what a test set does - and how fibre really works.

I think some people got the wrong idea with the idea that CSIT will be able to do more - it's not THAT much more. I think you can factor in that QL3 for every other trade (Jimmy cap badge) will probably be scrapped and it'll be more of a QL4 so to speak. That's where you would branch off or stay the course as an operator, learning your basic skills for that path/trade/whatever.

I don't think the imalgamation should be thought of like the old Tel Op changeover - which it seems to me that this was what the Air Force did with their big move. But I can't say for sure, I haven't really looked at the other imalgamation you guys are speaking of.

First off, First-line maintenance does not mean you open radios up. so if you suspect a radio is N/S you replace it and send it back to be repaired. 2nd line would be replacing cards etc. I know the reserve supply/repair system is a little messed up, but the only person who should be opening a radio is the person sitting in front of a test bench (read IFR). Otherwise you risk breaking the device further, argue all you want, if I caught someone opening a radio who shouldn't be, I'd have their...

Second, if this amalgamation goes off, the lineman will get the PBX as a responsibility, thus increasing their arcs of responsibility not diminishing them.

At this point it's a lot of hearsay anyway. I got the same brief here in Kingston... and at that point nothing definitive was in place, nor a concrete timeline. My advice don't get to wrapped around the axle over what you hear, just wait it out, for now there is no point worrying about it now.

As a personal aside, I think the trade amalgamation idea has a lot of merit, though I do have some major concerns about career progression, but those I will keep to myself, as this is neither the right place or the right forum to discuss my personal opinions on the matter.

First off, First-line maintenance does not mean you open radios up. so if you suspect a radio is N/S you replace it and send it back to be repaired. 2nd line would be replacing cards etc. I know the reserve supply/repair system is a little messed up, but the only person who should be opening a radio is the person sitting in front of a test bench (read IFR). Otherwise you risk breaking the device further, argue all you want, if I caught someone opening a radio who shouldn't be, I'd have their...

Seriously, is this nothing more than protecting the empire? Nobody is trying to steal your job nor your spec pay. The Army will always need 227s, but for the record, I've been on two courses for operators within the last couple of years whereby we dared to delve into the 227 world. On the first, we were shown how to use a Spectrum Analyzer and the second, we were shown how to change cards of a newer radio WHILE being given a qualification to change the card (LCMM approved). Granted a couple of briefs on how to do this and that doesn't completely eliminate a trade in one quick sweep. But perhaps the ever changing systems will no longer require the work force behind them to maintain equipment serviceability. More and more equipment is coming with complex BITs that narrow down the error enough that a test bench required in the past. I won't argue your training and skill, but I think the line may move a bit in the future as to what is done by who not because of people - but because of equipment and how "dummy proof" it is becoming. Just my opinion of course.

At this point it's a lot of hearsay anyway. I got the same brief here in Kingston... and at that point nothing definitive was in place, nor a concrete timeline. My advice don't get to wrapped around the axle over what you hear, just wait it out, for now there is no point worrying about it now.

I was thinking the same thing - that's why I've already said something along the same lines.

I'm not trying to protect the 'empire' and when the trades amalgamate, the only people that will be allowed to open the radios will be the ones sitting in front of a bench. The same way it is now. It's just not practical to allow this to happen in other avenues. You said you had qualifications that allowed you to change cards, I have no problems with qualified people doing their job. My issue is with people opening stuff up that they shouldn't be, when they lack the qualifications, training, and test equipment to do the job properly.

Don't view this as a Tech versus Op thing, it was not the intent, I was clarifying a few misconceptions that were stated earlier by others.

As a side note, the MES QS writing board commences on 23 Jun, for the CS(Radios) sub trade. I'm sure the others will ramp up shortly.

I think this is a bad idea that will come and bite is in the a$$ soon after it is implemented. They say they want to run a "super" QL3 (sigs, Line, LCIS) in one course yet they want to make the course take less time? What will be dropped? Or is it, like I suspect, just a Sig Op course that briefly touches on the other trades and just gives the opportunity to go to the two other trades? It seems to be that they want to get the number of people Sig Op qualified at the the expense of the other green C&E trades.

I can understand why the Linemen are unhappy. There was a breifing a few months back for the Sig Ops and Linemen in Esquimalt and from what I heard, it seems that they wante to give all the garrison linemen task to outside contractors and keep the linemen in the field. Most felt that it would lead to a loss of skills that would lbe crucial for linemen setting up or maintaining line in camps overseas. None of them were happy with the prospect of the amalgamation or losing their cushy postings, and who can blame them?

The CF is hell bent on going though with this merger, so any complaints will be too little, too late. Once they figure out the logistics, it will happen. Then, I suspect there may be a few VRs from Linemen who'd rather look for work civvie side (pehaps in the very position that were taken from them.) Then, we will still be short numbers and nothing and they will try something else

From my understanding (which is basically from the briefing, and mutterings going on), the QL3 will be common for all trades. Some period after your 3's you will be tapped for either of the sub-trades or to remain as an Op. It was unclear if people were going to have the choice or whether they would be told where they were going. After you were selected for your sub-trade, you would then commence a 4's package for that specific trade. Then everyone would be back together again for the 5's, with the subs continuing on with a sub component. At any rate, that's how it was explained to me.

I also heard that the linemen will be taking over the PBX from the techs... but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

Well ... PteBloggins here ... just thought it was time to chime in ...

One thing I think everyone is overlooking is the amount of recuits who will not sign up based on the merger.... I have a 10year background in Computers(networking/repair stuff) and I guarantee that if my recruiter told me I had to be an operator first, I would have either up and left or gone AVS.

Also I assure you that as a private LCIS currently I will VR if they want me to retrain as an OP... it's not what I signed my contract for... this may sound kind of sandbox behaviour, but its the facts, I signed up for a career as a tech and then I got to basic and heard the 'soldier first' motto.

This old story where recruiters promise all these great things and soon as you sign "POOF" it all changes is getting old fast.

There is not an Armed Force out there where personnel are not "Soldier First". The likelyhood of some having to use the basic skills taught are unlikely in a lot of cases, but it still applies to everybody...why is this such a revelation at this point?

Logged

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe