I can imagine you coaching a high school track team. Kid comes out to take up pole vaulting. He starts with the bar at 10'. He tries 20 times and finally clears it. He goes to move the bar to 11', and you say, "Please set the bar higher. Eleven feet is just mediocre. Try 18 feet."

You are as bad as my grown children. You're like the twenty-somethings on TV looking for their first home, and they want it all. Gourmet kitchen, open concept, 87 bathrooms, media room, finished basement, close to city center, large yard, etc. No patience. They want everything NOW. If we go 6-6 this year and you can't acknowledge that we've progressed, then you're just looking to complain. And that makes you part of the problem.

I can imagine you coaching a high school track team. Kid comes out to take up pole vaulting. He starts with the bar at 10'. He tries 20 times and finally clears it. He goes to move the bar to 11', and you say, "Please set the bar higher. Eleven feet is just mediocre. Try 18 feet."

You are as bad as my grown children. You're like the twenty-somethings on TV looking for their first home, and they want it all. Gourmet kitchen, open concept, 87 bathrooms, media room, finished basement, close to city center, large yard, etc. No patience. They want everything NOW. If we go 6-6 this year and you can't acknowledge that we've progressed, then you're just looking to complain. And that makes you part of the problem.

+1.

Lets raise the bar before we set the bar higher. Some people don't know what it means to take your time and get the job done right. When Hudspeth took the job at ULL, he told their fans that his first goal was to win every single home game no matter how ugly it is. Many ranking sites had them dead last in their preseason polls. For a program that had never been ti a bowl game in the FBS era, they were able to accomplish their goal and achieve even more that season. CJ has a program that has not had a winning season since 2002. We need to worry about being bowl eligible this season. Hopefully we achieve that goal and pull of a few extra wins. I hope we can win 9 games this season, but I will take 6 wins over 3.

I can imagine you coaching a high school track team. Kid comes out to take up pole vaulting. He starts with the bar at 10'. He tries 20 times and finally clears it. He goes to move the bar to 11', and you say, "Please set the bar higher. Eleven feet is just mediocre. Try 18 feet."

You are as bad as my grown children. You're like the twenty-somethings on TV looking for their first home, and they want it all. Gourmet kitchen, open concept, 87 bathrooms, media room, finished basement, close to city center, large yard, etc. No patience. They want everything NOW. If we go 6-6 this year and you can't acknowledge that we've progressed, then you're just looking to complain. And that makes you part of the problem.

Utterly absurd. 6 wins in D1A football is mediocre by everyone's standards except at Tulane. With this schedule, 7 wins is mediocre and that's not "wanting it all". No one is suggesting that mediocre isn't a step up from where we've been.

I can imagine you coaching a high school track team. Kid comes out to take up pole vaulting. He starts with the bar at 10'. He tries 20 times and finally clears it. He goes to move the bar to 11', and you say, "Please set the bar higher. Eleven feet is just mediocre. Try 18 feet."

You are as bad as my grown children. You're like the twenty-somethings on TV looking for their first home, and they want it all. Gourmet kitchen, open concept, 87 bathrooms, media room, finished basement, close to city center, large yard, etc. No patience. They want everything NOW. If we go 6-6 this year and you can't acknowledge that we've progressed, then you're just looking to complain. And that makes you part of the problem.

+1.

Lets raise the bar before we set the bar higher. Some people don't know what it means to take your time and get the job done right. When Hudspeth took the job at ULL, he told their fans that his first goal was to win every single home game no matter how ugly it is. Many ranking sites had them dead last in their preseason polls. For a program that had never been ti a bowl game in the FBS era, they were able to accomplish their goal and achieve even more that season. CJ has a program that has not had a winning season since 2002. We need to worry about being bowl eligible this season. Hopefully we achieve that goal and pull of a few extra wins. I hope we can win 9 games this season, but I will take 6 wins over 3.

Uh, right. Hudspeth won 9 games in his first year at ULL with a team that was picked dead last. You are making my point for me.

I can imagine you coaching a high school track team. Kid comes out to take up pole vaulting. He starts with the bar at 10'. He tries 20 times and finally clears it. He goes to move the bar to 11', and you say, "Please set the bar higher. Eleven feet is just mediocre. Try 18 feet."

You are as bad as my grown children. You're like the twenty-somethings on TV looking for their first home, and they want it all. Gourmet kitchen, open concept, 87 bathrooms, media room, finished basement, close to city center, large yard, etc. No patience. They want everything NOW. If we go 6-6 this year and you can't acknowledge that we've progressed, then you're just looking to complain. And that makes you part of the problem.

Utterly absurd. 6 wins in D1A football is mediocre by everyone's standards except at Tulane. With this schedule, 7 wins is mediocre and that's not "wanting it all". No one is suggesting that mediocre isn't a step up from where we've been.

And no one has said that mediocre is acceptable, either. You're the one that jumped on the comment of bowl eligibility. That's your problem, JJ. Everything is black or white to you. Is 6-6 where I want us to be? NO. But its a step up from 2-10, and it shows progress. No one's reading anything more into it than that. If we're 6-6 this year, would 6-6 be acceptable next year? Probably, because the schedule is tougher. (Notice I said "tougher", not tough. Anything would be an upgrade from this year.) So, 6-6 or 7-5 against a tougher schedule would show progress. And we move forward from there. If we get back to back 6-6 seasons, along with better recruiting, then 2015 we would expect much more, given that all the players would be CJ's.

RobertM320 wrote:
And no one has said that mediocre is acceptable, either. You're the one that jumped on the comment of bowl eligibility. That's your problem, JJ. Everything is black or white to you. Is 6-6 where I want us to be? NO. But its a step up from 2-10, and it shows progress. No one's reading anything more into it than that. If we're 6-6 this year, would 6-6 be acceptable next year? Probably, because the schedule is tougher. (Notice I said "tougher", not tough. Anything would be an upgrade from this year.) So, 6-6 or 7-5 against a tougher schedule would show progress. And we move forward from there. If we get back to back 6-6 seasons, along with better recruiting, then 2015 we would expect much more, given that all the players would be CJ's.

Actually, you did say that before, and then yet again when you talk about 6-6 being acceptable in the 3rd year of the CJ program. 6-6 is mediocre in college football and no other D1A program would consider 6-6 in year 3 to be "acceptable" especially playing outside of the P5. Not sure why you arent' able to put 1 and 1 together here.

RobertM320 wrote:
And no one has said that mediocre is acceptable, either. You're the one that jumped on the comment of bowl eligibility. That's your problem, JJ. Everything is black or white to you. Is 6-6 where I want us to be? NO. But its a step up from 2-10, and it shows progress. No one's reading anything more into it than that. If we're 6-6 this year, would 6-6 be acceptable next year? Probably, because the schedule is tougher. (Notice I said "tougher", not tough. Anything would be an upgrade from this year.) So, 6-6 or 7-5 against a tougher schedule would show progress. And we move forward from there. If we get back to back 6-6 seasons, along with better recruiting, then 2015 we would expect much more, given that all the players would be CJ's.

Actually, you did say that before, and then yet again when you talk about 6-6 being acceptable in the 3rd year of the CJ program. 6-6 is mediocre in college football and no other D1A program would consider 6-6 in year 3 to be "acceptable" especially playing outside of the P5. Not sure why you arent' able to put 1 and 1 together here.

Acceptable long term, no. But compared to what we've been through, yes. I'll tell you this, if the last ten years had been three 5-7, three 7-5, and four 6-6 seasons, we'd be in the Big 12 by now. That would have also meant either 6 or 7 bowl appearances. I would almost bet that's more bowl appearances than 50% of the D1A schools made in the last 10 years.

no other D1A program would consider 6-6 in year 3 to be "acceptable" especially playing outside of the P5.

Any school with a coach in his 4th season, who didn't have a winning season in their first three, would mean it was acceptable. I'll guarantee you I can find more than one example of that.

EDIT: Here's one, and I didn't even look very hard. I made sure it wasn't a P5 school:

UNLV.

Bobby Hauck, head coach. 2010- current. Had seasons of 2-11, 2-10 and 2-11 in his first three seasons, yet is still back for his 4th, so it must be acceptable. His predecessor, Mike Sanford, was there for five seasons, 2005-09. He went 2-9, 2-10, 2-10 in his first three seasons, but they were happy enough with the results to keep him for two additional seasons, where he went 5-7 and 5-7.
New Mexico State just replaced head coach DeWayne Walker this season, after four seasons there. He won 3, 2, 4 and 1 in his four seasons. So, why did they keep him around after his second season.

If you go P5, look no further than Vanderbilt. Bobby Johnson was the head coach there for eight seasons, starting in 2002. His records were 2-10, 2-10, 2-9 (3rd season), 5-6, 4-8, 5-7, 7-6 (seventh season) and 2-10. Obviously they would have been ecstatic to have a 6-6 season, since they found three consecutive two win seasons acceptable enough to keep him for 5 more seasons.
We can also look at David Cutcliffe at Duke. He won 4, 5, 3, and 3 his first four seasons, and they still kept him around. Last year he was 6-7, after losing the Belk Bowl.

So, a 6-6 season in year 2, followed by a step up in conference affiliation and another 6-6 season would definitely be more than acceptable at lots of schools. Especially ones with recent histories similar to ours.

Your problem, JJ, is you don't understand that 2 wins, then 5 wins, then 6 wins, then 8 wins = progress and respectability, because you can't get past the "2 wins". You dwell on it and dwell on it. You're obsessed with the moment.

You tell me that if we could guarantee you 6-6 in 2013, 6-6 plus a bowl game in 2014, and 8-4 plus a bowl game in 2015, you wouldn't take it right now, and I'll call you a liar to your face. In fact, I'd call you a damn liar to your face.