This is a discussion on Bankroll management within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; Because of the improper conduct of bankroll once again I lost everything. At the end of the month I will throw money and start all

Bankroll management

Because of the improper conduct of bankroll once again I lost everything. At the end of the month I will throw money and start all over again. I think many are suffering from a lack of discipline in the conduct of bankroll. Luck made me too self-confident. Do not repeat my mistakes.

I always made tower from scratches like I made 550usd once winning 3rd position in 888poker freerolls. But just because of my casino love I lost it completely.
So maintaining a bankroll requires great discipline.
I am still learning how to be a disciplined player.
I know I am a better player. I know how to win but I fall in the frivolities of the casino which makes my bankroll zero.
I have deposited up to 80usd max yet but made more than 1000 dollars just via freerolls.
But still I must learn how to be a disciplined player..

#5

26th June 2016, 10:20 AM

tcdukesdood [58]

Poker at: acr

Game: holdem

re: Poker & Bankroll management

Originally Posted by Brandlad

I always made tower from scratches like I made 550usd once winning 3rd position in 888poker freerolls. But just because of my casino love I lost it completely.
So maintaining a bankroll requires great discipline.
I am still learning how to be a disciplined player.
I know I am a better player. I know how to win but I fall in the frivolities of the casino which makes my bankroll zero.
I have deposited up to 80usd max yet but made more than 1000 dollars just via freerolls.
But still I must learn how to be a disciplined player..

I'm on the same page as you I have a bad habit of going to the casino table games, and losing all my poker winnings and sports bets.

#6

26th June 2016, 10:48 AM

dmitriy skripka [60]

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: preference

Originally Posted by Yermek

Because of the improper conduct of bankroll once again I lost everything. At the end of the month I will throw money and start all over again. I think many are suffering from a lack of discipline in the conduct of bankroll. Luck made me too self-confident. Do not repeat my mistakes.

thanks for the advice,I think 90% of players suffer from the idea to go to Olin, such venturesome person.

Originally Posted by Brandlad

I always made tower from scratches like I made 550usd once winning 3rd position in 888poker freerolls. But just because of my casino love I lost it completely.
So maintaining a bankroll requires great discipline.
I am still learning how to be a disciplined player.
I know I am a better player. I know how to win but I fall in the frivolities of the casino which makes my bankroll zero.
I have deposited up to 80usd max yet but made more than 1000 dollars just via freerolls.
But still I must learn how to be a disciplined player..

everyone wants to be disciplined but we are not in the army,and poker is first and foremost the rest. there is a man who always wins"the cards,lucky unlucky"!!!!!!!

#7

26th June 2016, 4:07 PM

Luci [18]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Both

Happens to me a lot, after a while playing very good at micro stakes i jump to higher stakes and because of the self confidence I play bad and loose it all. I also have to discipline myself and start over. Will try to built a new bankroll next month.

#8

29th June 2016, 8:04 AM

Brandlad [373]

Online Poker at: 888poker.com

So we agree upon one point that we lack discipline. Well we are all humans and it is in our nature to do mistakes.
Let us try our best to cope with this

#9

29th June 2016, 3:50 PM

sunirico [940]

Poker at: pokerstars

Game: NLH

Originally Posted by Brandlad

So we agree upon one point that we lack discipline. Well we are all humans and it is in our nature to do mistakes.
Let us try our best to cope with this

You are correct the thread echos in unison we have a lack of discipline and sure
we are human we make mistakes but what is the mistake here exactly?

Yermek confesses he played spins at a buy-in that was out of roll, Luci has a similar problem, start playing at higher stakes and poof gone is the roll. Brandland and tcdukesdood admit they wager their bankroll out on casino games.

But are these the real reasons why we go broke? In order to fix our mistakes we have to identify them first. Hold that thought...

We know the fix what am I talking about, we need to apply "sound bankroll management" duh. That is where the conversation usually ends, take this thread for example it's titled bankroll management but all we talk about is discipline and playing the micros... or not playing the micros.

What you may find out about bankroll management is something about a strategy you commit to where you only buy-in at X% of your bankroll or in other words you need to have XXX buy-ins in your bankroll and this way you won't go broke.

You may wonder at this point what the value of X should be but it depends, amongst other things, on what games you are playing, what your win rate is but also how desperate you are not to loose your bankroll. This magic number X will then take care of things like variance and standard deviation and all you need to worry about is play your A-game and in "the long run" you will... uhm... not go broke.

Therefor if we only have discipline and never play higher stakes and stay away from the casino we will not go broke. Our mistake is indeed deviating from X ...or is it in fact so?

If it was that simple then why don't we stick to the limits that we are supposed to. Grind away at 1c/2c till we are rich... or kingdom comes. Is it because we cannot win at higher stakes or casino games? If that were true we must be insane and have much bigger problems than loosing our bankrolls. No, we take these risks because we are bored and not being stimulated. We take these risks because our bankrolls have a higher growth potential than what we are currently realizing. We might not be bankrolled for it but we can spot an opportunity.

Lets take a step back for a moment.

What is the problem?

We are loosing our bankrolls.

Why do we need a bankroll?

So that we can grow it.

What do we need to do?

We need to manage our bankrolls in order to maintain a growth potential.

I heard a very successful gambler/poker player (forget the name) once asked what advice he can give others, he replied:

Don't be scared to take stabs at higher stakes but always leave yourself outs.

So lets ask ourselves again, why did we loose our bankrolls? Was it because we wagered at higher stakes or casino games? Isn't that exactly what our bankrolls are for?

If we claim to manage our bankrolls it makes sense that we would only wager a small enough portion which we can afford to loose. You don't ever want to play scared money. This way we maintain enough growth potential to easily recuperate minor losses.

Getting back to that thought... it would be easy enough to apply this principle if we just lost that 1st buy-in and realize oh crap we need to move down. Things aren't that black and white when we win though. Bankroll gets a substantial boost and we keep going. Loosing that buy-in now doesn't matter much anymore because we are still ahead. Then we loose another and another and soon we've lost that 1st buy-in too. Instead of realizing oh crap we need to move down we now desperately try to dig ourselves out of this hole.

The mistake is not the value of the 1st buy-in, there's clearly a stop loss problem here which somehow gets shrouded in a lack of "sound BRM principles" and translates to "playing out of roll". rubbish

I can't claim to know any better as I have no bankroll and mind you no stop loss either but clearly I am not alone. Perhaps it's time for a new strategy one that maximizes growth potential while managing both winnings and losses. I set out simply to explore BRM with this post but end up discovering similar problem areas from my own experience which I may hopefully resolve somehow with time. My apologies if I upset the status quo in any way my motives are simply trying to help. You may none the less submit your critique.

I've tried BRM and it's no fun...

#10

29th June 2016, 4:24 PM

Outlawluck [48]

re: Poker & Bankroll management

I worry that even with proper bankroll management I'll still go broke (as I always seem to go broke. I've never made a single withdrawal from online poker, I deposited countless thousands though)
2 weeks ago I made a $100 deposit, put all of it on a .5/1 zone poker table (Bovadas version of rush or zoom) and ran it up to $600 in about 4 hours. The next day, on a whim, I sat down at a 2/4 table and won $300 in about 3 minutes. From there I would grind my bankroll up to $1600 by about 8pm that night all on 2/4. It only took about an hour to drop back down to $250, almost all of it going to one guy who by the time I left the table was sitting at 1800 (more than 4 times the table max buy in) before I went back down to .50/1 and was broke 2 hours later. Ironically I didn't feel outplayed, I just got unlucky a lot. My hands weren't holding up at showdown (not born crazy, just getting out kicked or his two pair beating my two pair, stuff like that) Sadly, I've done this many many times. I always seem to go broke. This time jumping up on stakes was the problem, but it seems that I always end up loosing no matter what stakes I play.

So here I am. On Friday in depositing $1000. I'm going to only play .5/1 till I've doubled my bank roll, then jump up to 1/2 of its profitable, if not I'll stick with .5/1 till I've padded the bankroll some. Once I hit 4K I'll give 2/4 another shot (honestly felt those tables were easier then the lower stakes. Granted I only played on 4 or 5 tables over the course of one day, it could be annonaly) but always try to stick to the 10x buy in rate, if not 20x or even 30x depending on how I'm doing.

The second part is regulating my play. I've been analyzing it a lot the last week or so, and what's becoming increasingly clear is I am simply calling too often. 80% of the time when I think on beat but call anyway, I was correct. That 20% isn't outweighing the other 80% (as my hitting the virtual felt can attest to) I'm hopeing I can show enough discipline to not only stay in the limits I'm rolled for, but also make these tough lay downs when I seem to be beat. Only time will tell. But I know this, it's make it or break it time.

#11

29th June 2016, 6:30 PM

tehshaz [4]

Outlawluck, it sounds like your table discipline and patience is your biggest downfall. Poker, especially cash tables, is about the long game. You want to play hands that in the long run will make you money and not slowly eat at your saved cash. Sure we all have stretches where we have bad runs, but you have to play smart and know your pot odds and the like.

As for bankroll management, I make sure that I have at least 40x the buyin in my bankroll before I sit down at a table. I also won't make the jump to the next level unless I have 60x the buyin of that level. That way if I have bad runs I have enough to carry me through it to the other side and if things do not go well at the next level I still have plenty to go back down a level and work my way back up.

#12

29th June 2016, 10:00 PM

PapaC [2,804]

Online Poker at: Full Flush

Game: Holdem

What I see here are players who already know what the problem is, so why can't you all change that?

"Happens to me a lot, after a while playing very good at micro stakes i jump to higher stakes and because of the self confidence I play bad and loose it all. I also have to discipline myself and start over. Will try to built a new bankroll next month"

Luci are you aware that you are throwing good money after bad.? I think you believe that if you are winning a micro stakes, it will be even better and the money will roll in that much faster if you play at higher stakes. I hardly do anything without asking some questions here and that's like getting a go ahead from players that understand what I'm asking. Why don't you post that question asking how smart is it to win $50 (example) at micros and then take it to whatever level you are talking about. For me it's foolish. So you know it's not a good move, and you are the only one who can change it, or keep trying and keep depositing and keep seeing the same results.

#13

29th June 2016, 10:26 PM

SBEP [300]

Yeah buddy, i have also busted couple of BR i had on some poker rooms, but as from last time i am using a new BR management and have to say it works really good, i havent busted so far, and i am building up my bankroll, i have to say its a really slow, but thats the thing, u cant lose your BR all at once i always play 1/10 of my BR, even if i went on a tillt i will lose like 20% of my BR but never everything i have its slow but profitable

#14

29th June 2016, 10:38 PM

quick [1,015]

Online Poker at: Bovada

Game: NLHE

Originally Posted by Outlawluck

I worry that even with proper bankroll management I'll still go broke (as I always seem to go broke. I've never made a single withdrawal from online poker, I deposited countless thousands though)
2 weeks ago I made a $100 deposit, put all of it on a .5/1 zone poker table (Bovadas version of rush or zoom) and ran it up to $600 in about 4 hours. The next day, on a whim, I sat down at a 2/4 table and won $300 in about 3 minutes. From there I would grind my bankroll up to $1600 by about 8pm that night all on 2/4. It only took about an hour to drop back down to $250, almost all of it going to one guy who by the time I left the table was sitting at 1800 (more than 4 times the table max buy in) before I went back down to .50/1 and was broke 2 hours later. Ironically I didn't feel outplayed, I just got unlucky a lot. My hands weren't holding up at showdown (not born crazy, just getting out kicked or his two pair beating my two pair, stuff like that) Sadly, I've done this many many times. I always seem to go broke. This time jumping up on stakes was the problem, but it seems that I always end up loosing no matter what stakes I play.

So here I am. On Friday in depositing $1000. I'm going to only play .5/1 till I've doubled my bank roll, then jump up to 1/2 of its profitable, if not I'll stick with .5/1 till I've padded the bankroll some. Once I hit 4K I'll give 2/4 another shot (honestly felt those tables were easier then the lower stakes. Granted I only played on 4 or 5 tables over the course of one day, it could be annonaly) but always try to stick to the 10x buy in rate, if not 20x or even 30x depending on how I'm doing.

The second part is regulating my play. I've been analyzing it a lot the last week or so, and what's becoming increasingly clear is I am simply calling too often. 80% of the time when I think on beat but call anyway, I was correct. That 20% isn't outweighing the other 80% (as my hitting the virtual felt can attest to) I'm hopeing I can show enough discipline to not only stay in the limits I'm rolled for, but also make these tough lay downs when I seem to be beat. Only time will tell. But I know this, it's make it or break it time.

I remember doing these stupid things when I first started playing. And I can tell you for a fact that your "new" strategy here is likely a losing busto strategy. I can also tell you for a fact and others will say the same that you can run like god some days and run worse than you've ever imagined possible on other days. Just yesterday I continued to run horribly, missing every draw, getting sucked out on left and right. A few hours later I ran over a table online again for like 4 Bis profit. Amazing how quick things can switch back and forth and you need to prepare for it.

I've played for years, I'm comfortable taking a super short roll and playing some of it live 1/2. I'd never do that same thing online. You're seeing more hands and more tables online. Also you run into maniac gamblers online too but also run into regs who study and play hours and hours and will dismantle your play at even 10NL. The level of play is definitely better online than live. Some say 5 and 10NL is equal to 1/2 live.

Take that 1K and if you insist on playing cash online, stick to 25NL max. Maybe some selective shots at 50NL when it's about 1200. You can play perfect poker and you'll still lose. You can't put 10 BIs online and expect to be safe. I lost about 8 BIs over 2-3 days at 25NL recently at least 6 of them were suckouts or coolers (QQQ losing to 77 catching a st8, 777 losing to AA set over set, 89 flopped st8 losing runner runner to J10 st8, Aces full of 10s losing to a guy with A8o who turned quads, flushes rivered by boats or one higher flushes, etc etc).

Definitely don't play .50/1 or higher with only 1K online. And definitely don't try to "double up my bankroll and jump to next level" using 10 BIs lol.

#15

30th June 2016, 8:33 AM

Brandlad [373]

Poker at: 888poker.com

re: Poker & Bankroll management

Cash games require great Folding ability I.e. Patience. Whenever I play cash games I only play 2 out of 10 hands and do not chase till river.

#16

30th June 2016, 10:37 AM

redmast [703]

It sluchaetsya all. I am very sensitive to your bankroll and do not allow myself to play more than 1/20 part of the bankroll. My passion hampered by lack of a lot of money. I'm not a gambler, so I find it easier.

#17

30th June 2016, 12:31 PM

Outlawluck [48]

i certainly want to work my stack up to the 20 buy in level, and primarily keep that as a guideline going forward. I'm starting with 10 buy ins for the level in playing because that's the game I feel most comfortable with (too many crazies at the lower level for my taste). The only reason I said I'd take a shot at 2/4 if I hit 4K is because if I lost my buy in is still be in good shape to play 1/2. I'm all for taking measures risk, but I'm done throwing caution to the wind. Yes I'm starting at a higher level, but there will be no moving up to the 1/2 till my roll is at 4K. If I start to dip down from the 1k I'll drop down in levels and stick to the 20 buy in from there. While I am starting out a little out of my roll, I do know what I'm doing and a plan in place if things start to go south (as they may very well do). I'll keep you informed.

#18

30th June 2016, 12:50 PM

benspocket [436]

Online Poker at: ultimatebet

Game: hodem

i dont have enough money to manage

#19

4th July 2016, 7:59 AM

Bladepengeee [243]

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: Holdem

It happened to me a lot times that i lost all my bankroll few years ago i allways deposited 10-20$ in a month and i was so stupid i played in higher stack than the normal with my bankroll, but nowadays i can withdraw few times xD