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Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Originally Posted by Aviyah

What would you say is the purpose of AIPAC?

To give American citizens who support Israel a voice.

Time for me to ask you some questions. Did you know that the governments of South Korea, Japan, and the UAE spend far more than AIPAC does in lobbying the US government? Does that bother you too? Why don't you think that Rep Omar used them as examples of foreign lobbying instead of AIPAC?

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Oh, and I'm loving how some Democrat supporters are reacting by pointing fingers at the Republicans. That's great. So they think that because Republicans are anti-Semitic, it's ok for Democrats to be also?

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Fair enough, and I think we'd agree Americans who don't support Israel (or the current party in Israel) should also have a voice.

Time for me to ask you some questions. Did you know that the governments of South Korea, Japan, and the UAE spend far more than AIPAC does in lobbying the US government? Does that bother you too?

South Korea and Japan, not as much. UAE and the Saudis yes, much more so than Israel. But I don't see as many critics of these other countries being called racist. Backlash over Omar is a boy-who-cried-wolf situation to me (in this case, the wolf is real).

Why don't you think that Rep Omar used them as examples of foreign lobbying instead of AIPAC?

She might support those other countries or is more passionate about Palestine than Yemen, etc. Does she support Palestine because she's racist towards Jews? Maybe, but that's an issue of her character - which I've learned is irrelevant to being a good politician.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Fair enough, and I think we'd agree Americans who don't support Israel (or the current party in Israel) should also have a voice.

"Don't support Israel" or are "opposed to Israel"? Those aren't the same thing.

South Korea and Japan, not as much

Really?! So you think it's ok for foreign governments to lobby our government, but you have a problem with US citizens doing it?

UAE and the Saudis yes, much more so than Israel. But I don't see as many critics of these other countries being called racist.

Yes. Well, that's because you haven't heard anyone complaining about those governments lobbying. I know I haven't.

She might support those other countries

She doesn't "support" anyone. Her whole screed is a bash of Israel. That's it.

Does she support Palestine because she's racist towards Jews?

She doesn't support Palestine. All she does is bash Israel.

Maybe, but that's an issue of her character - which I've learned is irrelevant to being a good politician.

So you're OK with politicians being racist, so long as you agree with their platform. I've just lost a lot of respect for you.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

"Don't support Israel" or are "opposed to Israel"? Those aren't the same thing.

Then people opposed to Israel or an Israeli party should also have a voice.

Really?! So you think it's ok for foreign governments to lobby our government, but you have a problem with US citizens doing it?

In comparison to other countries, I'm not as concerned about SK or JP lobbying. If you mean lobbying in general, sure I'm not a fan of it. I just see more negative affects by other countries' agendas, the worst being Saudi Arabia.

Yes. Well, that's because you haven't heard anyone complaining about those governments lobbying. I know I haven't.

I have, but I read/listen to people all over the spectrum. I can see why you would hear more about Israel since it's a topic you follow more specifically, though.

So you're OK with politicians being racist, so long as you agree with their platform. I've just lost a lot of respect for you.

Oh, I'm not. But all I've heard for the past 3+ years is how character doesn't matter and gov't officials aren't spiritual authorities. So I thought the outrage was over policy not character. I guess this was an exception?

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Originally Posted by Aviyah

Then people opposed to Israel or an Israeli party should also have a voice.

Umm Israel is a US ally. Are there other US allies that need voices in opposition in this country? Are there people opposed to, oh, I don't know, Australia who need a voice in this country? Or how about Japan, an ally who spends lots of money lobbying? That you're singling out Israel is concerning.

In comparison to other countries, I'm not as concerned about SK or JP lobbying.

But you're concerned about US citizens lobbying?

If you mean lobbying in general, sure I'm not a fan of it. I just see more negative affects by other countries' agendas, the worst being Saudi Arabia.

But you never mentioned the Saudis until just now. Or any other country. Just Israel.

I have, but I read/listen to people all over the spectrum. I can see why you would hear more about Israel since it's a topic you follow more specifically, though.

Well, the difference is, people who support those other countries aren't being accused of nefarious deeds. It's the Israel supporters who are. And I don't have to follow anyone from "all over the spectrum", this is right out there in the mainstream media.

Oh, I'm not. But all I've heard for the past 3+ years is how character doesn't matter and gov't officials aren't spiritual authorities. So I thought the outrage was over policy not character. I guess this was an exception?

See my post #17.

It's really rather sad that one thing the far left (Omar) and the far right (David Duke) agree on is that supporting Israel is bad. He actually tweeted in support of her, so I guess his general displeasure with black people and Muslims can be overlooked when the black Muslim in question is busy attacking Israel. And unlike David Duke, Omar does hold elected office and does have the support of Democrats generally. I wonder if the Jewish time in America is drawing to a close.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Originally Posted by Aviyah

Then people opposed to Israel or an Israeli party should also have a voice.

You know, I want to revisit this, because it's disturbing on another level. Omar is not advocating for "another view that is opposed to Israel". No, that's not the issue here at all. She's bothered that someone is exercising their constitutional right to voice an opinion that she doesn't agree with. It's the advocacy itself that she disagrees with. And I think you, Aviyah, are sympathetic to that viewpoint.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Umm Israel is a US ally. Are there other US allies that need voices in opposition in this country?

I'm saying they deserve a voice, not that I agree with their position.

That you're singling out Israel is concerning.

Well, make a thread calling a politician racist for opposing Palestine. Or about how great foreign aid and arms dealing is with the Sunnis. Probably not likely to happen on this particular forum, but you'll see me saying the same things.

Well, the difference is, people who support those other countries aren't being accused of nefarious deeds.

They are, but it's not construed as racism, which is more marketable for media outrage. Russian occupation of Ukraine for example has never been seen as a race issue, yet there was constant coverage of pro-Russian influence and bribery infesting our politics.

See my post #17.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. Unfortunately I don't have a grasp on what people here actually believe regarding the importance of person's character in relation to his/her job performance. So it's difficult to understand and learn from your point of view.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Aaand her Democrat homies circling the wagons around her: AOC on twitter

Unlike this President, Rep. @IlhanMN demonstrated a capacity to acknowledge pain & apologize, use the opportunity to learn abt history of antisemitism,+grow from it while clarifying her stance.

Awesome.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Originally Posted by Aviyah

I'm saying they deserve a voice, not that I agree with their position.

So do pro-Israel voices. But you object to that.

Well, make a thread calling a politician racist for opposing Palestine. Or about how great foreign aid and arms dealing is with the Sunnis. Probably not likely to happen on this particular forum, but you'll see me saying the same things.

I'm not interested in what-about-ism. Omar singled Israel out and so did you. Congratulations.

They are, but it's not construed as racism, which is more marketable for media outrage.

Aviyah, this is bull and you know it. American citizens have the right to lobby for whatever they want without being accused of being subversive or having bad motives or being paid off. Enough already. If someone singles out Israel supporters, the Omar and you have, it's anti-Semitic. Saying "Oh by the way of course I oppose other lobbyists (who I declined to mention because I don't really care)" is disingenuous.

Russian occupation of Ukraine for example has never been seen as a race issue, yet there was constant coverage of pro-Russian influence and bribery infesting our politics.

Yes. Well, last I checked, Russia wasn't a US ally with tens of millions of US citizens supporting Russia. But why let facts get in the way?

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. Unfortunately I don't have a grasp on what people here actually believe regarding the importance of person's character in relation to his/her job performance. So it's difficult to understand and learn from your point of view.

In other words, you don't really care if someone is racist as long as it doesn't affect you personally. That's very Christian of you, I must say.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Originally Posted by Aviyah

Well, that's the issue I'm raising. I'm not Omar.

Ah. But you support her because she is a voice against Israel. And you think that's necessary.

What I'm seeing here is another confluence of left and right. Omar on the left is opposed to Israel advocacy, just like the Pauls, Rand and Ron, whom I know you support. It's so nice when natural enemies come together to trash Jews.

I haven't read her saying that

That's exactly what she said.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

You, Post #16: To give American citizens who support Israel a voice.
Me, Post #18: Fair enough, [the other side] should also have a voice.

Omar singled Israel out and so did you.

Let's review.

1. The thread is about racism.
2. You first brought up Omar and her having a problem with US-Israel support.
3. I asked for clarification if this position alone is what makes someone racist, and even agreed with you that Omar was herself racist.

You're being combative for no reason. I am not Omar, I do not support Omar, I did not know Omar existed until this news cycle.

In other words, you don't really care if someone is racist as long as it doesn't affect you personally.

No, in other words I want all politicians to be judged according to their character, Omar included. Yet this topic confuses me because the people who would now agree with me, were before explaining how character doesn't matter when voting for someone as long as their positions are valid.

Re: Racism in the Democrat Party

Originally Posted by Fenris

Omar on the left is opposed to Israel advocacy, just like the Pauls, Rand and Ron, whom I know you support.

Not so much anymore, I liked Ron but never his son as much. A lot of my views have changed since 2012, but I do still prefer less foreign aid in general considering our domestic issues. This translates to Israel by extension, but I'm not "against" Israel and I don't "support" them any more than our other allies. I'm not educated enough about the strategic value, so someone's stance on Israel doesn't really persuade my vote either way (unless they are promoting something extreme obviously).