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When it says, 'the move will lose it's secondary effect' in the description of the Sheer Force ability, does that include recoil, and stat losses? If it does, Flare Blitz and Superpower could make very good moves for this. If not, it is a lot more limeted.

When it says, 'the move will lose it's secondary effect' in the description of the Sheer Force ability, does that include recoil, and stat losses? If it does, Flare Blitz and Superpower could make very good moves for this. If not, it is a lot more limeted.

No. Sheer Force only works on moves which offer status afflictions or give a chance of the opponent's stats getting lowered. It's basically the inverse of Serene Grace.

Basically, your two main stabs get the boost form sheer force making fire punch acceptable over flare blitz for no recoil but flare blitz is still much better. Stone edge doesnt get the sheer force boost but combos well with the stab and is a great move in general. Superpower gets a lot of power and neutral coverage on all pokemon i believe, but EQ is an option but leaves you weak to flygon and others and fire moves get similar coverage to it. U-turn is just to get out should you need to. For the item, if you want choice band for more power or life orb and more freedom

Well, zen mode is going to be a tricky one to use, and it can't have any egg moves...
Darmanitan
ZenMode/Sitris Berry
Bold(I can't decide EVs).
-Substitute
-Flamethrower/Fireblast
-Psychic
-GrassKnot

Use substitute to get down to 50% health, and restore 25% of your health health with your sitris berry. Flamethrower, FireBlast, Psychic are all for stab, and GrassKnot hit Rock and Water types.

I based this of a belly drum snorlax set in the last thread.

Isn't there a trick, though, that sheer force + life orb + move with secondary effect = No LO recoil?

If there is, I never heard of it. Maybe it should be tested out.

Oh, I just thought of a belly drum set. But, it won't be legal until the pinch berries are released.
Darmanitan
Jolly/Adamant/252att/252speed
SheerForce/SalacBerry
-Substitute
-BellyDrum
-FirePunch
-BrickBreak/Earthquake

Use it like a substitute bellyzard, but save this set for later, as the salac berry is banned until it is released.

Darmanitan's stats put it in the direction of a choice item user. Two 120 power attacks and two 100 power attacks. Awesome. Fire Punch can be used over Flare Blitz if you have an issue with the recoil.

Bulkmanitan
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: same as the last one
@: Life Orb/Leftovers

-Bulk Up
-Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide

Not too difficult to figure out.

Drummanitan
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: same as the last one
@: Life Orb/Leftovers/Salac Berry

The idea is to trigger Zen Mode manually. Substitute cuts the HP to activate the Zen. After that, special attacks. Black Sludge is an option, but a very dangerous one. It quickens the activation of Zen Mode, but it also limits how long this can be used. If you want to be safe, give it Wise Glasses. Since Zenmanitan will be with low HP, Petaya Berry can work great.

Let your opponent unleash Darmanitan's Zen by taking damage. The EVs may seem odd, but Pre-Zen Mode Darmanitan is fragile, so it needs the bulk to survive.

Counters
Aerodactyle can one-hit it with Stone Edge. It can switch into the fire attack and Earthquake and Darmanitan down. Also, Stealth Rock will not be something that Darmanitan will appreciate, unless it has Zen Mode. Basically, a solid super effective attack from something faster will put it down. Otherwise, Gyarados can switch into anything not called Stone Edge and trigger Intimidate and smash through with Waterfall. The traditional Physical Walls like Skarmory and Forretress are benched here for obvious reasons.

As for Zenmanitan, Chansey, Gyarados, and to a lesser extent Snorlax can tolerate Zenmanitan and cripple the lowered HP with Toxic.

Cinccino will get a special mention because of Skill Link Rock Blast. It breaks Substitutes and the squishy Darmanitan it shields. However, Zenmanitan may have enough bulk when Zen Mode is active. Another way to counter Zenmanitan is the move Heal Pulse.

Other Options

Physical STAB on Zenmanitan can work as something to use while you are not in Zen Mode, but it's better to just try to activate it.
Belly Drum can automatically activate Zen Mode, but the better route is to use substitute because it's safer.
Hammer Arm can be used over Superpower if the attack drop is something you want to avoid, but Darmanitan will still have plenty of attack after a Superpower and a drop in speed and base power and accuracy is a worse way to go.
Brick Break is a choice if you don't want any stat drops.
Uproar is a special mention because it makes Darmanitan immune to sleep, but Darmanitan does not want to be locked at all, Zen Mode or not.
Focus Sash can be useful for activating Zen Mode, but the slow down factor and the common sandstorms make you look bad. It could work with a non-Zen Darmanitan for a lead set with Taunt and U-Turn, but that is something that puts Darmanitan's offensive magic through waste management plants. Better to think "how can I sweep the unlucky soul?" rather than "how can I annoy the unlucky soul?" when using Darmanitan.
Speaking of which, U-Turn can be useful for hit and run tactics. But passing up an uber-power move (100+ base power) for guerrilla tactics pacifies that 140 attack stat.
Stone Edge gets critical hits, but don't depend on criticals. Ever. You can rely on them, but not depend on them. Besides, Rock Slide hits harder, which I unfortunately found out significantly later.
Salac Berry can be used with outside of Drummanitan, but its not a good idea. Same goes for Liechi Berry.

I hope I did well. Please comment, I want some feedback on how well I'm doing!

Last edited by Meowmeow; 21st March 2011 at 7:09 PM.
Reason: Made a few discoveries that prompted some needed changes

This set seems really odd at first, considering Zen mode's base 30 attack. The idea is to sweep with Darmanitan at first, then use belly drum. Belly drum is to set it into Zen mode, which will boost its defences. The seeming-childish attack of 159 will get boosted to 1272, and darmanitan's defences will let it live. The point is for the set to be unexpected, making it all the better.

Darmanitan should be OU. Anyway, Flare Blitz with sheer force and STAB does around 250 damage, which will hurt things badly even if it is not very effective. Earthquake gets coverage, as does rock slide. U-turn can be used if things don’t start out well. Sheer force is to boost flare blitz and rock slide. Adamant is for more damage! 128 speeds are to outrun stuff. 128 HP is to help survive recoil damage. Attack is to hit harder. Well, waddaya think? Critiquing much appreciated. Thank You.

New Bible Verse of the Week: Zephaniah 2:3
Seek the Lord, all you humble of the earth who have carried out His ordinances; seek righteousness, seek humility. Perhaps you will be hidden in the day of the Lord’s anger.

^This guy's got it. Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Always Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Stone Edge does not get the Sheer Force boost, but Rock Slide does (flinch rate). So Rock Slide is pretty much a Stone Edge with 10% more accuracy.

The Life Orb+Sheer Force Trick is useless because all of moves are Fire type, excluding Smack Down.

The trick is incredibly useful because of Flare Blitz, Rock Slide, and Fire Punch all getting the Sheer Force + Life Orb boost, as well as Flare Blitz and Fire Punch getting STAB, making for a very strong attack. Also does Flame Charge get the Sheer Force boost? If it does, then it DOESN'T boost speed.

Heatran is as usual, one of the first ones to come to mind. It can switch into Flare Blitz and send an Earth Power back. Omastar, Sharpedo and Kabutops get nice switch in opportunities off of Flare Blitz, and send back strong Hydro Pumps, Earth Powers, Aqua Jets, Waterfalls and Stone Edges. Dragonite with Aqua Jet is a pretty safe switch in with Multiscale. Dugtrio is a nice and easy revenge killer. Starmie outruns and wrecks it with it's water STAB attacks. Thunder Wave shuts down most sweeping attempts, so fast carries of this move, such as Jolteon, Ambipom, Zebstrika, etc. can be useful. Bulky Water types are good choices, because 140 Base Attack and Sheer Force is scary to switch into, even though they'll take huge hits regardless. Blastoise, Cloyster, Swampert, Carracosta carry high Defense, but you can always expand to others such as Vaporeon, Lanturn, Lapras, Quagasire. Frankly, it's hard to counter something this fast and strong unless you can heavily reduce the damage you take on a switch in or score a revenge kill. There are plenty of things that outrun Darmanitan, but on the Choice Scarf variants, that window shuts to a near close.

The thing that is bad about Darmaniton is that it doesn't have Thinderpunch or Wild Charge, so bulky Water types can come in and hit back with Surf. The first ones that come to mind are Vaporeon and Milotic.

Basically, you'll use F.Blitz to get to/below 50% HP, then Psychic for STAB and the other Special Move (Grass Knot for heavier counters, Focus Blast for Dark non-Ghost Types, Hidden Power for other potential counters) for Zen Form. Shell Bell will help stave off a premature KO when above 50% HP. Rest is there when an emergency arises.

Switching into Stealth Rock, while suicidal, may help achieve your "karmic balance" if you switch into a weak-sauce Move.

Countering Darmanitan
-Sheer Force
Low Defenses make it a glass cannon to faster Pokemon, especially ones with a super-effective STAB such as Speed Boost Sharpedo, Flygon, Tentacruel, Garchomp, Archeops, Floatzel, Starmie, Dugtrio, and Aerodactyl.
-Zen Mode
Getting the KO from above 50% is key (unless you pack Brine, of course). Even then, it has some of the same problems in Zen Mode that Snorlax does normally (Leech Seed, Toxic Poison instead of Burns, etc.). Rock Blast will bust through Sub-Zen and deal damage (in one use if boosted properly), so Cinccino can be a pain, Cloyster can be lethal, and Garbodor can wreak some havoc, all with higher Speed than Zen Darmanitan.