Whats your point. You have to do the best with what you got. Libya gave up its arms programs/ect and in return got a reward for it. Doesn't me we were allies. Its carrot diplomacy. Read about it. Also, nice way to change the subject.

Whats your point. You have to do the best with what you got. Libya gave up its arms programs/ect and in return got a reward for it. Doesn't me we were allies. Its carrot diplomacy. Read about it. Also, nice way to change the subject.

I don't think this has gone off topic (subject) have I missed something?

Of course war crimes have been comitted in Iraq by American soldiers, but that doesn't make Bush a war criminal. I almost can't believe you meant that.And incendiary bombs are not illegal? They shouldn't be, and I don't belive the US uses it unless it is necessary.

As for the Libyan conflict... I'm torn between the sides and what I mean one day might not be what I mean another day. It's okay for him to use airstrikes and artillery against demonstrants, the demonstrants know they risk it. I don't think he will win power back, but if he does, well that's okay. There are no one ready to take his place, and if someone does they could be a new one like him.

Oh, the insurrection will spread to Europe, young ones... My guess is the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain) will have greater turmoil in the coming years after their entire economies have a nuclear meltdown.

no shit ! wow never heard such ignorant conspiracies. you need to go out more and see the real world dude. your mind is going fast. i'm glad your not an american.

Need to go out and see more of the real world? Now that made me lol.

glad i could return the favor. your theories make me lol all the time. and yeah , the real world . not the one you make up in these forums. further more , if the usa is behind all these events , GOOD! i'm all for the usa policing the world .

no shit ! wow never heard such ignorant conspiracies. you need to go out more and see the real world dude. your mind is going fast. i'm glad your not an american.

Need to go out and see more of the real world? Now that made me lol.

glad i could return the favor. your theories make me lol all the time. and yeah , the real world . not the one you make up in these forums. further more , if the usa is behind all these events , GOOD! i'm all for the usa policing the world .

'Policing the world'? Is that what you call it? You should join the army and get some fresh air while you help 'police the world' for your country.

That's what I usually think, because most parts of the world are not fit to govern themselves, including the EU.

But in this case I've had enough of USA sticking their nose where it does not belong. Europe is also sticking their nose where it does not belong. Let Libya have their civil war. If Gaddafi wins then he deserves to be their chief.

That's what I usually think, because most parts of the world are not fit to govern themselves, including the EU.

But in this case I've had enough of USA sticking their nose where it does not belong. Europe is also sticking their nose where it does not belong. Let Libya have their civil war. If Gaddafi wins then he deserves to be their chief.

Six Norwegian F16 planes are now being prepared to join the international attack on Libya. It's really too bad that I'm not piloting one of the planes. I would shoot down the five others and switch side. I hope all foreign military aircrafts entering Libyan air space are shot down. Including the ones from my own country. I hope our pilots don't return to Norway, not even in body bags.

And by the way, those six F16 planes are about one third of our operational air force. One third of our force being in Afghanistan, leaving almost no fighter planes back home. Talk about biting more than one can chew.

But in this case I've had enough of USA sticking their nose where it does not belong. Europe is also sticking their nose where it does not belong. Let Libya have their civil war.

You aren't very well informed. The transitional council is the legitimate governing body of Libya as far as anyone who isn't an insane dictator is concerned and they requested armed intervention. This is why the UN exists. Further, calling it a "civil war" is inappropriate because the populace isn't divided - almost everyone wants to see Gaddafi go apart from the military who are basically the only people who had it okay under Gaddafi - they're just the ones with all the weapons.

QUOTE

If Gaddafi wins then he deserves to be their chief

So because Gaddafi is from Libya and can rally the army behind him for their own self interest, he's the legitimate ruler of Libya? What the fuck? He's forcing himself onto the people--they don't want him--how is it any different from an invasion (which you are supposedly opposed to)?

I think you just proved my statement. But I was actually talking about modern times and not the days of the British Empire.

QUOTE

What the fuck? America has no ability to "police" Europe.

Sadly that's true. God save us! He is our only hope...

QUOTE

You aren't very well informed. The transitional council is the legitimate governing body of Libya as far as anyone who isn't an insane dictator is concerned and they requested armed intervention. This is why the UN exists. Further, calling it a "civil war" is inappropriate because the populace isn't divided - almost everyone wants to see Gaddafi go apart from the military who are basically the only people who had it okay under Gaddafi - they're just the ones with all the weapons.

So I'm not well informed just because I don't acknowledge the Libyan opposition as the legitimate governing body? Gaddafi didn't lose an election and he is the legitimate leader until someone defeats him in one way or another. Dictators are often legitimate leaders. An example of a dictator that is not as legitimate, is Lukasjenko in Belarus, he held an election and cheated. If you want to remove dictators, start with the ones that aren't legitimate.

Civilians are fighting, I call that civil war. You have a better word for it?

QUOTE

So because Gaddafi is from Libya and can rally the army behind him for their own self interest, he's the legitimate ruler of Libya? What the fuck? He's forcing himself onto the people--they don't want him--how is it any different from an invasion (which you are supposedly opposed to)?

Yes Gaddafi is the legitimate leader of Libya. Same as with the rulers of Saudi-Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, China and many other countries. Some of these was recently overthrown, but they were the legitimate leaders until that point.

You seem to think that the UN is more legitimate than Gaddafi. How can you do that? The UN isn't very democratic and it is forcing themselves upon anyone they see fit. The UN are puppets of the most powerful nations, China one of them. I want to see the day the UN call on military actions or other sanctions against China.

I think you just proved my statement. But I was actually talking about modern times and not the days of the British Empire.

QUOTE

What the fuck? America has no ability to "police" Europe.

Sadly that's true. God save us! He is our only hope...

QUOTE

You aren't very well informed. The transitional council is the legitimate governing body of Libya as far as anyone who isn't an insane dictator is concerned and they requested armed intervention. This is why the UN exists. Further, calling it a "civil war" is inappropriate because the populace isn't divided - almost everyone wants to see Gaddafi go apart from the military who are basically the only people who had it okay under Gaddafi - they're just the ones with all the weapons.

So I'm not well informed just because I don't acknowledge the Libyan opposition as the legitimate governing body? Gaddafi didn't lose an election and he is the legitimate leader until someone defeats him in one way or another. Dictators are often legitimate leaders. An example of a dictator that is not as legitimate, is Lukasjenko in Belarus, he held an election and cheated. If you want to remove dictators, start with the ones that aren't legitimate.

Civilians are fighting, I call that civil war. You have a better word for it?

QUOTE

So because Gaddafi is from Libya and can rally the army behind him for their own self interest, he's the legitimate ruler of Libya? What the fuck? He's forcing himself onto the people--they don't want him--how is it any different from an invasion (which you are supposedly opposed to)?

Yes Gaddafi is the legitimate leader of Libya. Same as with the rulers of Saudi-Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, China and many other countries. Some of these was recently overthrown, but they were the legitimate leaders until that point.

You seem to think that the UN is more legitimate than Gaddafi. How can you do that? The UN isn't very democratic and it is forcing themselves upon anyone they see fit. The UN are puppets of the most powerful nations, China one of them. I want to see the day the UN call on military actions or other sanctions against China.

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QUOTE (demon @ Apr 18 2011, 01:03 PM)

I think you just proved my statement. But I was actually talking about modern times and not the days of the British Empire.

I was pointing out that you have an outdated ideolog... oh nevermind.

QUOTE

So I'm not well informed just because I don't acknowledge the Libyan opposition as the legitimate governing body?

They aren't the "opposition" because they're the only ones we recognise. Your whole argument boils down to "Gaddafi is already there, and should therefore stay" despite him being a complete lunatic - he's far too crazy for us to accept and the only governing body we recognise wants the UN to help them get rid of a tyrant who coerced his way into power. Gaddafi isn't recognised by the UN or the people of Libya (hence the revolution) and he's killing civilians, our hands are basically tied. You're talking about democracy but he's not holding elections, there's nothing remotely democratic about his regime, so why do you think he is legitimate? If we didn't support the rebels you would probably complain that we aren't promoting democracy or something - some people just like to bitch.

We're not there to protect anyone, we're there to take over the country and put a puppet government in because Gadaffi stopped being cooperative with the oil companies (he kicked 2 of them out the country a few months before this kicked off). The rebels are a minority and therfore he has every right to try and put the western backed revolution down.

He's not massacering his own people like the lying press are telling you and he didn't bomb protester's from the air either. It's amazing how people believe this shit when there is no eveidence of it ever happening. Grow up, grow a brain, and learn to think for yourself instead of taking everything your governments tell you.