Rebate money is your money don’t let the dealer tell you otherwise. They will try to use it to pad their profit but it should come off whatever price you agree on, not used to get to that price. Dealers are tricky and can hide stuff when they work you based on payments. Always walk in with financing secured already and work price. Last day of the month a couple of hours before closing time is the best time as they are trying to meet sales quotas for the month.

These days I make my deals over the internet and through email. Before I even sit down in front of the finance manager, I tell him I won't give the dealer a good survey if he tries to sell me anything. It has always worked.

When my wife wanted to buy a new to her automobile we went to the dealership and found what she wanted. Negotiations started with my wife telling the salesman exactly what she wanted to pay, how much down payment and the monthly payment she wanted. He did his calculations and started explaining to me the numbers, she interrupted him and said no that’s not what I want, repeated her desires and asked him to work the numbers again. He ran the numbers again and started to explain them to me, basically ignoring the fact that it was her buying the vehicle. I stopped him and said if you continue to try to sell me a car you are not going to be successful because I’m not buying she is. He paid the price for his stupidity because she is a hard negotiator and willing to walk away. In finance office the guy started same thing and she gave him a verbal smack down that made me smile. In the end, she got what she wanted. The service manager came in while we were waiting for them to wash the SUV and said he was putting new tires on it because he wasn’t comfortable with the ones that were on it. He was the only one who spoke directly to my wife from the beginning.

We protect our banks, celebrities, and politicians with guns. We protect our children with… signs.

My son and I had a horrible experience at a Ford Dealership about a year ago. My son goes in to the dealership, but does not see the F150 he's looking for. The salesperson sends him to the competition to check out the inventory. My son finds the truck he wants and the dealer tells him he'll dealer trade for it. The salesperson said something to the competition such that they would not trade. Fiasco #1.

The salesperson locates the truck my son wants at another dealer, but is 150 miles away. He set-up the dealer trade and tell my son to come back in two days. We return in two days, no truck. Fiasco #2.

Meanwhile, the salesperson wants us to do all the paperwork on the sale before the truck arrives. My son says no. I want to see it first. When the truck arrives, he likes it. Now its off to the F&I guy. Since I am co-signing the loan, I went ahead and negotiated a rate with my bank and the bank sent the dealership the paperwork via email. Well, when the F&I guy realizes we're not using Ford financing, he has major issues with the price. We had an order for the truck with a bottom line number agreed to and signed by the manager. My son said to them a deal is a deal. If they want to sell the truck, stick with the deal. So, we sign all the paperwork on some electronic desk that records our signatures. We used my bank's financing. So, I thought.

Two days later, I get a phone call from the dealership. They convinced Ford Finance to match my banks deal and switched the financing to Ford from my bank without us ever re-signing the papers. Fiasco #3. This was really slimy on behalf of the dealership.

I consulted an attorney about filing a civil suit. The attorney said that since Ford Finance matched all of the terms from my bank, I have no economic damages. While the practice is slimy, he asked what exactly am I going to ask the court to do? My son loves his truck and wants to keep it. So, we stayed with Ford Finance. My bank would not match its original terms for a Re-Fi.

We have bought 4 personal vehicles and 5 company vehicles in the last 7 years from not only the same dealership, but the same salesman. On the company vehicles, each time they tried to tell me that I had to go through Fleet Sales (which by the way was a few hundred dollars higher) and not through our regular salesman. This alone almost cost them sales. However, my wife's SUV had a light issue on one of the headlights. We bought this vehicle in September of 17 so very much still in warranty. When we took it in, of course we had to leave it and we were prepared for that. Then the call came. Mr. Brown, I have to inform you that the issues with your lights are caused by rodent damage and would cost $266.00. Okay, not sure why or how since her car stays in the garage at home (we don't have rodents in our house I can assure you) and parked next to my truck and 2 other employee vehicles at work, none of which have any rodent damage, but still, possible on a shopping trip I suppose. He said that he would send me pictures. When I had not received pictures in a couple of hours, I called him. He said he got busy and forgot but they were on the way. Well 30 minutes later I got a couple of pictures of the wiring harness that showed no rodent damage at all. I called and asked about this and he said they had already repaired it. I said, okay, I want the parts that came off. His response was it was just a repair so there were not any parts. I said, okay, then you repaired it, charging me $266.00 without my approval???We went and picked up the car, paid the $266.00 and left. As we headed back, I became agitated about the situation so when I got back, I emailed my salesman and let him know what happened and that they had just cost themselves a longtime customer. In about 10 minutes I received a call from him and he wanted to put me on a conference call with himself, the sales manager, and the service manager. At the end of the call, I received my money back as well as a service contract on her car for 3 years.

What I liked was that True Car showed I could get about $2500 off sticker. I get to the dealer and every car has $2500 worth of dealer installed add on's like "fabric protector" "paint protector" etc. It was an in town dealer, as I didn't want to go to a way out in the country dealer as once they get you there I have found, for some reason the True Car guaranteed price somehow, due to fine print that discount, doesn't apply to you.

I took the dealer financing as it was 0 percent interest. Bank couldn't match that.

Even though I waited till December there were still tons of people buying because of the flood. Literally there were other people buying cars you were looking at. Made dealing tough. Plus it was the last day of the year as I wanted to get that last chance sales tax deduction before we made America great again.

I love messing with dealers heads!You have to go in with the correct mind set. They make a living selling automobiles, you don't make a living buying. They have to sell, you more than likely don't.I always get the invoice and add 3%, then take off any incentives the manufacturer has going. Never start at MSRP. Also, don't pay any additional dealer fees, they usually try to add a $50 paperwork fee. They will say its not negotiable, believe me they will not let a $25k sale go for $50.Walked out of a Ford dealership one time, by the time I got home they were on the answering machine asking me to come back. Deal done!

Don't know if Carvana is in your area but we used them for our car recently, great experience. Picked out a car, used their financing and very happy with our purchase. They only sell used cars and we got one with low mileage with one owner. You get a Carfax and drive it for a week, if you don't like it you can return it. You can pick it up through their vending machine or they will deliver it on a flatbed.

get your best price, finance through the dealer. take the loan to your loan source, bring the rate down to none or a livable spot. that's what I've done with the last three cars I've bought. literally in and out in an hour or so. good luck.

thatguyoverthere wrote:Long, but may be interesting and/or enlightening.

Well, as of Saturday morning, I thought my wife and I would be driving a new car to church on Sunday. But, as the thread title implies, we were in our old car at church Sunday morning instead!

So we spent most of Friday afternoon at a local new car dealership, looking at various vehicles and driving some. We settled on what we wanted, then went in to start the blood-letting - umm, I mean "negotiations."

That part actually went pretty well. Sales guy only went back and forth to the sales manager three times, and I only had to haggle with the sales manager one time when he came in to take over for the salesman. Normally, I would expect to have to do more of that, but we actually ended up with a very good price that I was happy with. By now, it was late, and the bank I'm using to finance it was closed, so I told them we would be back in the morning to finish up the paperwork. They wanted me to go ahead and drive "our" new car home, but I thanked them and said we would wait until everything is done first.

So we showed back up Saturday morning. Everybody's all smiles. Wife and I are all smiles, salesman is all smiles, F&I guy that my salesman hands us off to is all smiles. Everybody's happy. It's gonna be a great day!

And it starts off well with the F&I guy. But apparently he didn't get the word, so I can tell he's disappointed to learn that I've decided to go with my own financing rather than using theirs. That means he and the dealer don't get their cut of the financing deal, and he doesn't get to try to sell me his overpriced GAP insurance. So he moves on from there and pitches me the extended warranty. "No thanks, not interested" I tell him. He tries a little bit more on that, but gives up pretty quickly. The smile that was on his face is now clearly a frown, but he trudges on.

About now, I tell him: "Oh, by the way, I have $2,000 worth of rewards points on my GM credit card that I will want to redeem, so pull that off the top, too." So he sort of grouses under his breath a little and whacks on his computer keyboard a minute or two, then prints out the actual contract with all the money numbers and puts it in front of me to sign.

So I'm looking it over, and see that the top starting number is $3,750 HIGHER than the number that the sales guys and I had settled on. So I say to the guy: "What's this number?"

He replies: "Well, you're doing your own financing, so you lost the $750 incentive to use OUR financing." (Which was really not true, since the price I had negotiated I was not counting on any manufacturer incentives). But, I just set that aside in my mind for a moment, because we were still $3,000 over our agreed price and I just wanted to see where he was going with that.

So then I said: "Ok, so then what about all this other money that's still above our agreed price." He says: "Well, we've got to show that the $2,000 that you're redeeming that goes on the top of the price we settled on."

When I hear that, I suddenly get pretty hot under the collar (but nothing drastic, still under control). He's telling me that instead of taking OFF the $2,000 that I'm redeeming (which is my OWN money, NOT GM money or dealership money), he's ADDING it ON the price, so he can then take it back off.

And I never even got far enough to ask where that one more extra $1,000 above our agreed-on price came from.

So at this point, I just lean back in the chair and say: "That ain't gonna cut it. Better go get the sales manager." So he storms out and is gone for just a minute or two and comes back by himself and says: "Yep, sales manager says that's the deal."

My wife and I immediately stand up together and I say: "Ok, I guess we're done." And we walk out, get into our old car, and drive off.

So the search continues...

Except now, I've got to call my credit card company on Monday and find out how to get my rewards money back, because I got an email Sunday morning thanking me for redeeming my points and hoping I'm enjoying my new car that I purchased from XYZ dealership!!!

Sigh...

The F&I people are far and away the most difficult people to deal with in my experience.

As far as your last remaining issue, I would call your credit card company and ask to talk to the executive office. At a minimum, report that GM (the company acting through their representatives at the dealership) have fraudulently attempted to redeem your reward dollars. That should get their attention. But if not, and depending on how much you want to press the issue, this type of attempted credit card fraud should be enough to warrant a formal complaint with the CFPB (Consumer Financial Protection Bureau). The state AG's office may also be interested.

And please name the dealership so we all know to avoid any business with these scoundrels.

Good news. I called my credit card company this morning. They transferred me to the GM Redemption Center. I explained the situation to a gentleman there. He put me on hold, then came back literally about one minute later and said: "Ok, your rewards balance has been restored." Very nice.

Since that dealership unintentionally gave us the opportunity, we ended up spending most of the day today looking at other brands, other dealerships. No bad experiences, but no serious negotiations, either. Just looking and test driving for now. We will also be going to a different GM dealer this week to see what they can do on the same model that we almost bought this past weekend. After I check with them, then we'll be ready to make a decision.

This is why I hate dealing with new car dealers. But honestly, even with all this mess, it really has been easier this time, because of my attitude. I have finally figured out that I'M the one in the driver's seat! (A little play on words, eh?) Seriously, I have felt no pressure this time (other than the moment I figured out that the guy was literally trying to steal my $2,000 rewards money!)

And thanks for all the responses from everyone. I've looked them all over, and have actually learned a few things! It's just amazing to me how many people have similar bad experiences with car dealers. I just don't get why they think they can get away with those old tactics, especially today.

I'll update if any other "interesting" stuff happens. And thanks again to everyone.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:And please name the dealership so we all know to avoid any business with these scoundrels.

Even though every word I've said is absolutely true, in this day and age, I'm hesitant to name names on a public forum. Might even be against forum rules, I don't know. But, if you're thinking about purchasing a Chevy in Grayson county, feel free to PM me.

One thing I've read is that the listed invoice isn't really what they're paying these days and there is no doubt more wiggle room in the price than the invoice would lead you to believe. Now clearly, dealers have to eat too but make them earn it. I've avoided some of the car buying services like True Car in the past because, while the prices are better than MSRP, they are still funneling you to a dealer in their network. And the fee they earn from the dealer for steering a sale to them is what you're helping to pay in the sale price. USAA is probably one of the best bets if you're eligible because they are so protective of their members.

USAA should be able to get you true invoice. I would never trust a dealer to give you a correct invoice.Dealers also get quarterly bonuses for every vehicle sold. They aren't going to go hungry.I would always try to get the best deal I could, there are plenty of folks who have more money than brains and only care about the color and options.