"Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

Man On A Mission:Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.

czetie:Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.

I think he agrees with you. Hence the part of them being highly profitable in bold

The "big pharma" conspiracists are as stupid in their own way than 9/11 truthers or the rest. More so because their illinformed decisions about health and put themselves, their kids and others at risk.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.

I think he agrees with you. Hence the part of them being highly profitable in bold

Sybarite:"Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

rzrwiresunrise:How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.

BunkyBrewman:Sybarite: "Enter 'vitamins are useless' articles. The more you're presented with official-sounding data that erodes your confidence in self-care, the more you'll relinquish yourself to the seriously dysfunctional U.S. health care system. And that means the more you'll rely on surgery, prescription drugs, and health insurance."

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery.

Astorix:rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.

Number one threat to our lives is life, followed closely by the automobile.

I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising. Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims. In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money. Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.

Astorix:rzrwiresunrise: How did we ever survive without multi-vitamins for thousands of years? By eating good food, not junk food, you say? Funny, sounds like something my DOCTOR would say.

The whole vitamin, supplement, dietary aid and herb industry is the most unregulated and chock full of bad science, pseudo science, and actual harm. Remember the rash of deaths from ephedra? Then there is ginseng, which has been shown to cause blood pressure spikes. Recently a threat was posted about green tea extract causing liver damage.These extracts and concentrations are unnatural and the manufacturers often cheat by putting unnatural things into them.

Traditional Chinese Medicines one of the worst offenders.

As much as I hate big pharma, I distrust the lack of oversight in the multi-billion selling "herb and supplement" industry.

Having worked within the herbal supplement industry on as an internal compliance officer, I heartily agree with you. Big pharma is an industry, and like any industry will lie to its consumers to make money. The dietary supplement industry is no better, but they sure as hell will pretend to be.

Most dietary recommendations are based on studies of deficiencies--people who can't absorb a nutrient. They are minimum levels, not optimum levels. Many of these studies were done by the military or in other institutional environments to determine what the minimum needs of a soldier, say, were, or how much of certain nutrients was safe--which is to say to set an upper limit on nutrients which are toxic or counterproductive in large doses.

I therefore believe that it is worth while taking supplements of many minerals and vitamins. However, it is probably true that a person eating a healthy diet does not need supplements and that many supplements don't do much good--or harm--in reasonable doses.

I look on my multivitamin as insurance, and the other vitamins I take as attempts to ensure an optimal level.

In other words, I am sane.

While pharmaceutical industries are not to be trusted (they are for-profit corporations, not philanthropists, so their advice may well be tainted), most doctors are reasonably honest, and variable in their skills, knowledge and common sense. A lot of older doctors haven't keep up with the medical science, while a lot of doctors in general are twits. Remember, half of them graduated in the bottom of their class and are only getting more ignorant and stupid with the passage of time.

All the same, I would say that vitamins are mostly harmless if you follow the directions and don't take stupid mega-doses. The alternative health industries are even more full of BS than the scientific health industries.

Studies will fight the benefits or non-benefits of various nutrients back and forth forever. As revealed by recent studies, most research papers are not read by anybody, much of the data disappears (which means the wheel is constantly being reinvented, and the media distorts and hypes every little thing. In short, good information and analysis are hard to come by.

drxym:The "big pharma" conspiracists are as stupid in their own way than 9/11 truthers or the rest. More so because their illinformed decisions about health and put themselves, their kids and others at risk.

As someone who's working in big pharma I can assure you that there is no way that they could possibly have their shiat together enough to do a global conspiracy. The higher ups in big pharma are quite possibly the stupidest people you'll ever meet, which is weird when you'd think that people smarter than scientists would be running the place.

czetie:Man On A Mission: Sybarite: Yes, we certainly wouldn't want any "official-sounding data" to steer you toward proven highly profitable methods of treating diseases and away from chicanery long-proven vitamin and mineral supplements.

FTFY.

My doctor told me not to take a multivitamin, just a vitamin D supplement, because a cheap and simple blood test showed that was the only supplement I needed. But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain how this is part of an elaborate conspiracy.

By the way, if you're looking for actual facts that are "long-proven", the most undeniable one is that most people don't need and don't benefit from vitamin and mineral supplements.

muddythinker:I worked at the FTC, which regulates US advertising. Our staff used to bring supplement and diet aid cases against retailers & manufacturers making phony claims. In bringing these cases, we had to hire top nutrition scientists from good universities as experts, and they told us 20 years ago multi-vitamins are a waste of money. Only specific vitamins help, such as if one has a vitamin D deficiency.

I figure anything OTC that makes my pee BRIGHT yellow is proly unnecessary at the very least.

EmmaLou:What ever happened to just including fruits and vegetables in your diet?

We had my wife's family over for the holidays -- the whole clan, for about 3 weeks. (*shudder*) Every dinner I served included at least one side of vegetables, often two. And not weird foodie stuff; just the standards, like green beans, corn, carrots, green salad, etc, prepared in the usual ways.

Never saw them eat a single veggie, neither the children nor the adults. I would have bothered to have been horrified, but that's probably not very atypical, nowadays...

I don't think there's some great conspiracy here, regardless of whether vitamins "work" or not.

It's worth mentioning, doctors are not scientists. They aren't really equipped to say whether something works or not. Their job is to apply medical science, not to develop it. So they get told "this pill does this because of these processes" and take it at face value until some other scientist says otherwise. I know I wouldn't want a doctor that's trying to prove big pharma wrong.