Transcript: Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen

May 24, 2009

Page 3 of 16

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me move on to the issue of Iran. You said
that Iran is on a path to building nuclear weapons. But the 2007
National Intelligence Estimate concluded with a high degree of
confidence that Iran had halted its nuclear weapons programs. So do
you believe that intelligence estimate is outdated? Is it no longer
accurate?

MULLEN: Well, I believe then and I still believe that Iran's
strategic objective is to achieve nuclear weapons, and that that path
continues. Their leadership is committed to it. They conducted a
missile test this last week that was successful, which continues to
improve their missile delivery system and capability. Their intent
seems very clear to me, and I'm one who believes if they achieve that
objective, that it is incredibly destabilizing for the region. And I
think eventually for the world.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said it's their intent. But do you believe
they've restarted their actual nuclear weapons program?

MULLEN: I haven't seen -- or I wouldn't speak to any details
about what they are doing with respect to that. Although, I remain
concerned that while intelligence estimates focus on what we know, I'm
concerned about what Iran might be doing that we don't know.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me also press the question of their
strategic intent. "Newsweek" has a cover story out. Let me show you.
It says that everything you think you know about Iran is wrong. And
one of the points that Fareed Zakaria makes in "Newsweek" is he points
out on several occasions over the last several years, Iran's leaders
have said they're not interested in having nuclear weapons. They have
said that nuclear weapons are immoral. The Supreme Leader, Ayatollah
Khamenei actually issued a fatwah saying that these weapons are,
indeed, immoral.

And I guess, it's possible they could just be lying. But it does
seem odd that a country that the Islamic Republic that bases its
legitimacy on being a guardian of Islam that would develop weapons
that it considers immoral. That would seem to undercut their own
legitimacy.

MULLEN: Well, I think that speaks to the importance of the
dialogue that President Obama has stated he wants to initiate and to
really wring out, whether that's how the Supreme Leader feels.
Certainly from what I've seen, Iran on a path to developing nuclear
weapons.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don't believe it? That they don't want
nuclear weapons.

MULLEN: At this point no.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And the chief of staff to Israel's defense
minister, General Michael Herzog, has said that Iran could actually
have its first nuclear weapon by the end of 2010 or the beginning of
2011. Do you agree with that?

MULLEN: Well, I think you make certain assumptions about what
they can do. Most of us believe that it's one to three years,
depending on assumptions about where they are right now. But they are
moving closer, clearly, and they continue to do that. And if you
believe their strategic intent, as I do, and as certainly my Israeli
counterpart does, that's the principle concern.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you just said that you believe that a
nuclear Iran would be calamitous for the region. But last year, Sy
Hersh in the "New Yorker" reported that you pushed back very hard
against any notion of a military strike during President Bush's
administration. And you've spoken publicly about the unintended
consequences of a military strike by Israel. So what worries you
more? A nuclear Iran or war with Iran?