Yeah, but this trend was going on even before the switch to electric steering.

I really hope Scott answers my question, and doesn't use cop outs such as: "Well you don't have to get a newer BMW", "Have fun with another brand", or go the defender route saying everyone is wrong about the F30's steering.

Interestingly, one of the most revered cars in handling and feel was the
Honda S2000 and even before that, the famed NSX. Steering rack? NOT hydraulic, but electric.

I know other companies use BMW 3 series as a benchmark and attempt to emulate and build on it, BMW may have too much pride to take an S2000 and look into it to see why it's electric steering is so good.

And the ATS has received many very positive reviews for it's steering, and it too is electric. OUCH.

SCOTT, yes things are evolving and the market has become global. Still no excuse for the polarising, but mainly aversion evoking designs they put forward. Makes me adore my old E39 even more as a classic beauty, just like the F10 who still has got the X-factor also.

You say that criticism is normal but always has proved to be wrong... I don't buy that, even the offensively ugly Bangle 7-series had to be facelifted early and substantial. When you see a young timer E65 these days, it holds no cancle to earlier E23/32/38 models. I still omit to see good reasons for inferior design. Look at the www for global first reactions on 3 GT, 80% of the reactions are simple and pure aversions on design.

You say it's mainly targeting Europe? The 5GT certainly wasn't. I see the price will put it above the touring also...?? Also here, it will not be a fast moving item then and it will become obsolete immediately, after a first wave of early adopters buying a few thousands of them.

Will certainly not become a classic. I hope they at least will earn a bit on it.

I too question that BMW's decision always proved to be correct. That sounds like marketing talk to me.
Sorry Scott, I know that's your job, nothing wrong with keeping positive.
The 7 had to be fixed to improve sales. According to Scott I could be wrong.
But, did the 7 sell at it's best volume because it included the newish China market to help those sales?

The previous 5 was a bad styling decision, and BMW had to correct that to regain sales, and it worked.
Recent sales of the new 5 and 7 models are quite successful in sales numbers compared to their previous iterations.
I didn't like the initial E90 and happily it was finally corrected with the face lift. The Msport version was especially nice.

As for the 1M it did very well. But, BMW failed on that one because of it's very short run. It was a model version that did extremely well, so what did BMW do, they didn't extend the run even though a replacement for the 1 series, on which it's based, is still over a year away.
Who at BMW had the bright idea to stop production of the 1M 2 years before a new 1 series replacement comes and likely another 4 years before an M2?

LOST SALES. I for one really wanted to see new 1 coupe and sedan.
Knowing that wasn't coming I was hoping BMW would increase 1M sales, as early on a top BMW exec said that if sales and demand were there they could increase production. They didn't.
Didn't lose me though as I got a 335i. BUT, it's not exactly THE BMW I wanted this time around.

BTW, have you guys seen the render of the coming 2 series gran coupe?
It's VERY nice.
If this 3GT hurts your eyes and makes you want to punch BMW, go look at the 2 gran coupe render. You may regain confidence and hope.

Interestingly, one of the most revered cars in handling and feel was the
Honda S2000 and even before that, the famed NSX. Steering rack? NOT hydraulic, but electric.

I know other companies use BMW 3 series as a benchmark and attempt to emulate and build on it, BMW may have too much pride to take an S2000 and look into it to see why it's electric steering is so good.

And the ATS has received many very positive reviews for it's steering, and it too is electric. OUCH.

You are part right about the NSX. The early manual models in the USA had no power steering at all. The later manuals and all autos had electric, although your point still stands. I don't know why BMW has been doing this. It just doesn't make any sense, because there is literally no downside to having steering feel.

Anyway back to the GT. I just had a thought. BMW should turn the GT's into a shooting brake. Not only will it look better, but it will also be more practical.

I would also like to point out something else that has been overlooked.
the 5er GT is NOT a volume level car so sales should not be as high as some of you were expecting. BMW's initial strategy on launch was to sell around 15,000-20,000 units of the 5er GT per year.

Point 1 - BMW were on the backfoot already at launch, forecasting at the last minute (correctly) such low sales.
Point 2 - Shows that they've wasted lots of resources (R&D, marketing, aftersales, technical etc) on just 20k units of sales p.a. (around 1.5% of total annual sales), & quite a lot of those sales are cannibilised from the F1x & F01.
Point 3 - It shows that the GT line is not the panacea to BMW, & it is not & won't be the saviour to BMW AG. It contributes too little to the bottom line & failed to create a new niche (which is in itself undefined). It is irrelevant to the future success of BMW.
Point 4 - Just 20k of sales is needed to tarnish the image of BMW to some in the lay public, by making a car with dumpy styling, compromised driving dynamics & interior packaging, poor 2nd hand residule values & frequent discounting on new cars.

I too question that BMW's decision always proved to be correct. That sounds like marketing talk to me.
Sorry Scott, I know that's your job, nothing wrong with keeping positive.
The 7 had to be fixed to improve sales. According to Scott I could be wrong.
But, did the 7 sell at it's best volume because it included the newish China market to help those sales?

The previous 5 was a bad styling decision, and BMW had to correct that to regain sales, and it worked.
Recent sales of the new 5 and 7 models are quite successful in sales numbers compared to their previous iterations.
I didn't like the initial E90 and happily it was finally corrected with the face lift. The Msport version was especially nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarence

Point 1 - BMW were on the backfoot already at launch, forecasting at the last minute (correctly) such low sales.
Point 2 - Shows that they've wasted lots of resources (R&D, marketing, aftersales, technical etc) on just 20k units of sales p.a. (around 1.5% of total annual sales), & quite a lot of those sales are cannibilised from the F1x & F01.
Point 3 - It shows that the GT line is not the panacea to BMW, & it is not & won't be the saviour to BMW AG. It contributes too little to the bottom line & failed to create a new niche (which is in itself undefined). It is irrelevant to the future success of BMW.
Point 4 - Just 20k of sales is needed to tarnish the image of BMW to some in the lay public, by making a car with dumpy styling, compromised driving dynamics & interior packaging, poor 2nd hand residule values & frequent discounting on new cars.

Point 1 - BMW were on the backfoot already at launch, forecasting at the last minute (correctly) such low sales.
Point 2 - Shows that they've wasted lots of resources (R&D, marketing, aftersales, technical etc) on just 20k units of sales p.a. (around 1.5% of total annual sales), & quite a lot of those sales are cannibilised from the F1x & F01.
Point 3 - It shows that the GT line is not the panacea to BMW, & it is not & won't be the saviour to BMW AG. It contributes too little to the bottom line & failed to create a new niche (which is in itself undefined). It is irrelevant to the future success of BMW.
Point 4 - Just 20k of sales is needed to tarnish the image of BMW to some in the lay public, by making a car with dumpy styling, compromised driving dynamics & interior packaging, poor 2nd hand residule values & frequent discounting on new cars.

Got any evidence to support your points?

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3/15 to i8, and everything in between (yep, even including the F26 and F45)

nope, not a fan either. Wasn't a fan of the 5 series gran turismo and nor am i on this one...

personally i think anyone that needed the "extra" hatch space should've went for the 3 series touring wagon instead of this... it's like the car cant decide between if it's a wagon or a sedan?!

I thought so too, but now I remember my dealership gave me a ride home in a 5 GT once and I sat in the back and compared it to the F10 5 series we owned. The GT has more space in the back, especially head room, and you sit up higher in it. It also has more trunk space than a 5 series wagon so I guess I can see why someone would want one of these GTs. It's not so much a split between a wagon and a sedan as it is a split between a sedan and an SUV, the ride height is between the 5 and the X5 and it does give you the high driving position that a lot of people seem to like without forcing you to get a full size SUV. It's not for me, but then again I rarely have anything besides a sweater in my trunk so I'm clearly not in the target demographic.

It also has more trunk space than a 5 series wagon so I guess I can see why someone would want one of these GTs.

No it doesn't. For the F07 it's either rear passengers or luggage, u cannot do both at the same time.
That's why the F11 outsells the F07 by nearly 2-1 even tho F11 is more or less a EU-only product. The F11 is also available as an option rear seat comfort package. The rear seats recline in the same manner as the F07.