Sinister Primal Diamond for FIRE

First, I'm sorry if this have already been brought up. Havn't seen anything about it.

Will the new legendary meta gem actually be that much better then the normal meta gem? The crit rating on it will be equally as good as the int on the on the normal meta gem (atleast according to askmrrobot's fire mage stat values). If that is true, then it means that you chose between a 30% haste proc for 10sec vs 3% increased crit damage.

Proc chance for fire: 1.18*0.302~0.36.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that the gem will proc (for a fire mage) about every 3 minutes (since its using RPPM). If that is correct, you basically gain 30% haste for 10 secounds every 3 minutes. I'm not 100% sure of how to do the math to calculate how much haste rating this would give assuming it proc's every 3 minutes. Someone please help me with this.

Either way, to me it feels like a 10sec haste buff that you cant pop yourself (i.e. it might proc when you're running/not have any CD's up etc) is not better then the 3% crit damage. Crit damage = combustion damage = fire mage's major damage. There's a lot of movement in this tier so the chances that you will proc the gem whilst not standing still nuking is fairly big.

What do you guys think? Someone have any theorycrafting proving wich gem will be the best? Unless it turns out to be a big DPS increase I will probably stick with the normal meta gem since I don't think taking the risk of being forced to move when the gem procs is worth it.

Mhm I think it is meant to be the other way around. It should proc more often on not "haste" heavy builts like fire... and less often on "haste" heavy built like frost, elemental, moonkin. But the number show the exact opposite...

Mhm...

If they wrote devided by these factors it would at least made more sense.

That would mean it would proc 0.63... times for a boomkin in one minute and 3.6 times for a fire mage... --> Which would mean ... well 30seks+ of 30% haste... a little op aswell

Well, +3% crit damage is not as good as it looks, it is litteraly not more then a slightly harder hitting crit.

Those numbers you posted are from an old PTR build, not a soul will have the Legendary meta gem any time soon, I doubt before 5.3. There is no way the gem will proc 6 times as much for other classes. It will all be about equal (jugh) in the end, because otherwise everyone keeps nagging and nagging.

I have no doubt that the new gem will be BiS. I wouldnt worry about it.

Well, +3% crit damage is not as good as it looks, it is litteraly not more then a slightly harder hitting crit.

Those numbers you posted are from an old PTR build, not a soul will have the Legendary meta gem any time soon, I doubt before 5.3. There is no way the gem will proc 6 times as much for other classes. It will all be about equal (jugh) in the end, because otherwise everyone keeps nagging and nagging.

I have no doubt that the new gem will be BiS. I wouldnt worry about it.

Why wouldn,t anyone have the metagem soon? Is there a hugely long part of the quest chain after the secrets of the empire?

Anyone have any idea why the coefficient for Fire is so low compared to other specs? It seems like it's going to be another DPS tuning knob for Blizzard to balance, and losing 3% crit damage for this isn't cool either. I think Blizzard might have to hotfix this just like they had to hotfix Fire after the 5.1 and 5.2 launches. Live is like the new PTR, lol.

Mhm I think it is meant to be the other way around. It should proc more often on not "haste" heavy builts like fire... and less often on "haste" heavy built like frost, elemental, moonkin. But the number show the exact opposite...

You'd think, but Blizzard Logic is to do things as backwards as possible.

Seeing as how Haste Proccs are already quite garbage for us, to make this one procc 70% less than average is a joke.

---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 03:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by MrExcelion

Anyone have any idea why the coefficient for Fire is so low compared to other specs? It seems like it's going to be another DPS tuning knob for Blizzard to balance, and losing 3% crit damage for this isn't cool either. I think Blizzard might have to hotfix this just like they had to hotfix Fire after the 5.1 and 5.2 launches. Live is like the new PTR, lol.

The problem is almost no one has the gem unless they have had retardedly high luck, and the chance of said players to be parsing are even lower.

Despite Blizzard having their own data that they could EASILY test and hotfix, they prefer to wait until players get items in game before tuning.

All in all, my point being that the fact that we're questioning if a legendary gem is better than our current gem is a HUGE design failure on Blizzard's part. There should be NO QUESTION that this is better, if it was designed correctly.

Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-04-07 at 07:28 PM.

Uses the same signature for over a year, just randomly gets infracted for it recently.
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Oh yeah, I'm a Druid and stuff.

I'm kind of concerned that losing 3% crit damage would be hurting us more than any other spec in the game, given Fire's high crit rate and the interaction with Combustion, so yeah it baffles me why our coefficient is so low.

Looking at my logs for Jin'rokh, Horridon, and Ji-Kun last week (25N, 516 ilvl, 2set/2set), I get about 55-58% of my damage from crits with a 38% crit rate. The current meta crit dmg bonus is therefore worth between 1/(.55/1.03 + .45) and 1/(.58/1.03 + .42) or between 1.6 and 1.7% dmg increase.

30% haste with an uptime 1.18*.302*1.1366*10/60 (using my conservative 13.66% haste raid buffed, obviously will get higher as we get more gear) is an average of 2.025% haste. If we generously assume that 1% haste is a 1% dps gain (it's not), that's only barely better than the current meta gem before considering crit vs int. The crit is stronger if crit is worth 2/3 of int or more.

At higher gear levels: top geared mages right now have like 44-48% char sheet crit buffed, 15-20% haste buffed. Looking at top fire parses right now I see max like 65% dmg from crits which translates into 1/(.65/1.03+.35) = 1.9% dps gain from crit meta vs 2.14% haste gain (approx 2% dps gain from haste meta).

i.e. not significant increase

On the other hand, looking at top moonkin logs I see between 60-68% crit damage and 20%ish haste buffed, which gives 1.78-2.02% dmg gain from crit meta vs. 30*1.18*1.872*1.20*10/60 = 13.25% haste gain for top moonkins. The disparity is ridiculous.

Top destro logs: 65-70% crit dmg and 20-22%ish haste buffed which is again about 1.9-2.1% dmg from crit meta vs 30*1.18*.598*1.20*10/60 = 4.23% haste. Not as ridiculously better as for frost or moonkin, but still probably definitely stronger than crit meta.