Why is Arena alliance dominated?

Post by Silvercrank

Ive been looking around on all sorts of websites on arena statistics, and pretty much all of the top players are humans (like every 5 alliance players you see on the list there is 1 horde undead. Whether its 2v2, 3v3, etc.

Is it because of the extra trinket that makes humans better for arena?

Post by Djames

Pretty much.

Post by Zuji

At least it's a convenient excuse :)

Post by Lordplatypus

Because apparently humans are the only race with an button to press that causes a special effect on a 2 minute counter special to their race.

Post by kwizzlix

The human racial. Its not that powerful in battlegrounds, but in arenas its a pretty big advantage. More humans are above 1800 rating than orcs and undead combined.

Post by Lordplatypus

And yet there are more overall humans than orcs and undead combined.

Post by macguyvur

last I checked the 2v2 3v3 5v5 its almost all horde players all from tich. But you will so more alliance pvpers on youtube ect. for the most part.

Post by Steaknbacon

It's not that they are better because of the slightly better racial but all the best pvpers already choose human because they know that it is a little bit better.

Post by dontqqme

dude..thats all I play. I know it can get boring after awhile but the human racial really is beast for pvp.

Post by Kaez

Because not many of the other races have beneficial racials other than human, undead and nelf really, I mean some like the dwarf racial is good in some situations but they are the 3 main races that PvP'ers use, but alot of people think its down to personal choice or aesthetics.

Post by Lordplatypus

Orc hunters are practically the best option these days with the massive bonus they get to pet damage.

Post by JamesDevlin

Because Bliz Devs favor and play Alliance.

I'll give you three PVP examples, examples I don't expect you to take my word for, but I want you to observe for yourself.

Arathi Basin

Go to Arathi Basin. You will notice that to get to our first flag there are TWO fences strategically placed so that Horde has to run around them to cap their flag. Alliance has a straight run directly to their flag with no OBSTACLES in the way. Yes, Blizz placed obstacles in front of our flag and gave Alliance a tactical time advantage, even though small. Now I would like you to take note of this, because I have been taking note of this for many years… Go into Arathi Basin and notice that Alliance caps the first flag before Horde 100% of the time. Yes, 100%.

Any professional racer/runner will tell you that mili-seconds add up to minutes. This is only one small example of giving Alliance a head-start.

Isle of Conquest

You leave the Horde fortress and head down to the docks. You head there because you know that the glaves do more damage than the siege the engines. But as you get just in sight of the dock base, you see WAAAY OFF IN THE DISTANCE that the Alliance is ALREADY THERE! and you still have a ways to run. But now you will have to fight harder to get the docks because Alliance has already been there first, which means they already technically own it. YOU have to win it from them. Again, they have a time/distance advantage—and faster access to the most powerful siege force in the battle.

So the next time you decide to go up to the left and take over the sky ships. But again, as you get to the top of the hill, AMAZING, the Aliance somehow beat you. You can rationalize how this happened in all kinds of ways. Hey, maybe they all have a running boost. Maybe Horde is so clumsy that they trip over their Orcish feet all the way there while all Alliance are nimble-footed. But you are just rationalizing. No matter which one the Alliance decides to take, they will be there first, and you have to play king of the mountain to push them off.

The Alliance also has a visual advantage. This is another battle technique that has existed IRL for thousands of years—the higher ground has the advantage. When we come come close to the flag for the sky-ships we are just coming over the crest of the hill, and we can't see what is ahead. The Alliance however have a very straight run and can see everything that peeks over that hill, target it, and begin smashing; while we are still getting our bearings. It's a Visual/Psychological advantage.

The center is the only place you are perfectly equal.

Again, don't just take me at my word, try it out and see for yourself. I tell people this all the time and it's like they just never saw it until I pointed it out.

To top it off, Alliance has a very good place they can park their glaves where they can hit the side gate of our fortress from a distance. I have taken glaves all over the place, and the best place to hit the Alliance fortress is to drive right up in front of the doors. There is no hill to park on and hit it from a distance. My sister told me "No there's a place where we can hit from a distance." But when I asked her to show me she couldn't find it. Hmmmmm that's odd…

Battle for Gilneas

Has anyone else noticed that in order for us to get to Waterworks we have to cross water? Come on, using water as a barrier has been used as a battle tactic for thousands of years. As a result, Alliance always gets two bases before Horde, and Horde has to push the Alliance back on one front or the other. And because I do rated battlegrounds and have been on the Alliance side, I can confirm that whenever we have Alliance side, we ALWAYS get the Lighthouse and Waterworks before Horde side. Don't be fooled. This is not an oversight by the devs, this is by design.

Bonus example #4. I'll give just one personal experience.

I was in The Eye of the Storm a few days ago. It was the very beginning of the fight. Horde owned two bases, Alliance owned ONE base, AND we also had the flag…

But somehow Alliance had more points. I remember this very clearly as it was only a few days ago and I was venting to my guildies in Vent about how unfair it was.

Now that is VERY odd that they had one base, we had two and a half, they never got to cap their second base. We ended up with three full bases, AND the flag, yet they had a hundred more points. This sort of thing makes you wonder what other kinds of mechanics are hidden in the battlegrounds that we don't know about. Now you can't tell me that in this case the Alliance wasn't gaining points quicker than the Horde. Makes you wonder all sorts of things, like do they receive fractionally better healing, or do fractionally better DPS, because I know in that case they got points that rightfully belonged to us.

The Devs are on record stating that they play Alliance characters. And there is no such thing as a person who will not bend a battleground to their advantage if they have the power to do so. It's the way it is, IRL and in-game.

I have plenty of other stories; but most people won't believe them anyway. Now don't even get me started on Alterac Valley. Even Alliance admits they have the advantage in that battleground. Sadly I had to blacklist AV because I got tired of losing it 95% of the time. "Sadly" because it's my favorite BG, ruined by the Dev team.

I've had people respond "Yeah Aliance has an advantage in some battlegrounds, and Horde has an advantage in others. . . but for some odd reason they never follow that statement up with an example. I ask them "Which ones?" and they go silent. So, which BG does Horde have an advantage, huh?

Sorry if I sound angry, but it is frustrating to have to fight harder to win against the design.

Post by Adamsm

Lots of tin foil hat to the above.

Post by JamesDevlin

Lots of tin foil hat to the above.

Lots of testable, provable information. Anyone can go into a BG this very moment and test this out (with the exception of my personal experience, and the inference to hidden mechanics). And I encourage all to do so. You need to see the truth about the imbalance that is blatantly obvious once you witness it.

My sister used to tell me I was being paranoid. You see my sister plays both Alliance and Horde, and admits that she wins more BGs when she plays Alliance, especially AV—And as a result she has quit doing PVP on her main Horde char, but does PVP on Alliance… because she likes to win.

One day I was talking to her about the problems in AV and how the Alliance always wins. She responded to me that the Alliance is just better organized than Horde. She said: "the Alliance communicates better."

To which I asked her "So when you're on the Alliance side of AV you are organizing and communicating with them?" She got quiet and admitted that there was no better communication than on Horde side. So it's not about Alliance communicating better, or having a better technique that is winning all the AVs. Something else is going on that is completely apart from skill and strategy.

I also asked her to take note that in a majority of (and not all of) BGs AL gets more healers—this is especially so in carry the flag games. I only asked her to take note of this… Since she has actually watched and taken note, she is now convinced, not because she is easily swayed, but because the looked herself, and witnessed it herself.

One person I mentioned the healer thing to actually told me "Alliance roll more healers than Horde." This is very funny rationalization, because these types of rationalization fly off the tongue with zero data to back them up, it's just the first thing that came to mind to try to reason why Alliance is getting more healers than Horde. It's easier to think "Oh it can't possibly EVER be that the devs have planted in a hidden mechanic, so it must be that Alliance rolls more healers than Horde." B.S.

A very funny thing happens when someone points out a conspiracy. The conspirators are praised and the blame falls on the one who called out the conspiracy. It's backward from what it should be, because the conspirators are committing the crime, not the people exposing it. Mark my word on this: If Watergate wasn't exposed, today some conspiracy theorists would be talking about how it happened, and they would provide evidence, and everyone else would be calling them paranoid delusional.

Post by Adamsm

It's Tin Foil because I've seen just as many losses in all BG's as I've seen wins on both factions.

Arena is only 'dominated' because of the human racial; beyond that, there isn't any definite proof on either group having any type of 'hidden mechanic'.

Post by Lordplatypus

You can claim that all you want but there's two things i've noted and those are A: Horde never goes for any advanced strategy, prefering to just rush ass-end-first at the enemy. Alliance on the other hand, has a entire designated group for back capping at regularly and successfully storm each individual bunker.

Alliance heavily escorts their glaives, whenever horde ninjas the glaives, they just send them and proceed to all go into a catapult.

Horde in general have more healers, it's not uncommon for alliance to have 1 healer and horde to have 3.

Now I'll refute your bland complaints.

Because Bliz Devs favor and play Alliance.

Remeber when the devs called Alliance gay in a song?

Go to Arathi Basin. You will notice that to get to our first flag there are TWO fences strategically placed so that Horde has to run around them to cap their flag. Alliance has a straight run directly to their flag with no OBSTACLES in the way. Yes, Blizz placed obstacles in front of our flag and gave Alliance a tactical time advantage, even though small. Now I would like you to take note of this, because I have been taking note of this for many years… Go into Arathi Basin and notice that Alliance caps the first flag before Horde 100% of the time. Yes, 100%.

Note that this is both A: nonexistant and B: Ignore that Horde have every advantage in the game, from a massively simpler defensive line (with stables being harder to reinforce by far, the GY for farm being way easier to sneak out of compared to the funneled GY in stables).

Lets not forget horde has massively easier time getting to BS, which is the crux of the triangle defense.

So the next time you decide to go up to the left and take over the sky ships. But again, as you get to the top of the hill, AMAZING, the Aliance somehow beat you.

It's massively closer to the horde, the only way you'd win this one with alliance is because hordies are well.

Idiots.

Alliance players jump off the ramp and eat the fall damage to go faster, pick the right gate, cut corners by jumping

Horde ones run into a wall.

I've seen it happen.

Oh and Don't even let me get started on the horrid blindspots in alliance tower guns which horde guns don't have, AT ALL.

Has anyone else noticed that in order for us to get to Waterworks we have to cross water? Come on, using water as a barrier has been used as a battle tactic for thousands of years. As a result, Alliance always gets two bases before Horde, and Horde has to push the Alliance back on one front or the other. And because I do rated battlegrounds and have been on the Alliance side, I can confirm that whenever we have Alliance side, we ALWAYS get the Lighthouse and Waterworks before Horde side. Don't be fooled. This is not an oversight by the devs, this is by design.

Really? So why do we have the side where we literally cannot see the fight until we're there? both coming from LH to WW and GM, you can't see anything until you're already in the thick of it while GM to WW and GM to LH gives you what's basically a spy satelite's view.

And the water barrier doesn't exist, just jump.

Lets not forget WSG's having alliance's only way to get out fastish being right next to the Horde's GY while horde gets a far easier way out, Twin peaks being blatantly biased towards a hordie using a hang glider to teleport past half the map and then turning into an otter for the last half, going at mountspeed or higher the whole way through. and don't even get me STARTED on SSM.

Every BG is horde biased to various degrees.

Post by Kopec

Alliance on the other hand, has a entire designated group for back capping at regularly and successfully storm each individual bunker.

Don't make me laugh. Seriously, if you think this you have never played Ally side. I assume it must be a "grass is always greener" type deal where I think horde have the strategy. In reality I guess they're equally bad.

Ally only seem to have an advantage on win ratio stats when the bg is heavy on pve. AV and Isle.

Post by satyr80

Humans have better racials, that's why.

Post by Lordplatypus

Considering that they're the most complicated BGs, and the only ones where brute racial force won't get you through.

Telling isn't it?

Post by JamesDevlin

Lordplatypus, your counter argument has too many holes for me to cover thoroughly.

Let's take the one about Gilneas. You claim that Alliance can not see the Light House and Water Works until they get right to them. As I said, because I do Rated every week, I know this is far from true. Whenever I play Alliance side I can stand in one place between the two, and from that one spot I can see if Horde is going to Waterworks, and I can call out if I see Horde gathering on the hill to hit the Light House. From that one spot we can sit in the middle and call out which need reinforcements. If you don't know about that spot then you haven't payed attention.

(The ONLY time Alliance can not see the Horde mounting an attack is if they gather and come the back way to WW, which never happens in Non-Rated.)

Then you say "And the water barrier doesn't exist, just jump."

That is very funny. You actually have to jump several times to get across the water. It slows you down, whereas Alliance can simply ride there.

As I have stated, whenever we have Alliance side in Rated-Battlegrounds, we ALWAYS cap LH and WW before the Horde can get close. This is testable and provable. Either you don't do rated, or you're just trolling. If you do then you know that you can get Alliance side if you're playing against another Horde group.

The ONLY way to simply walk over the water is is you have a DK. Or you can have a Loc drop portals, which we always do in Rated. Otherwise, in a situation where there is no communication (non-rated) this almost never happens, and you are left to jump, jump, jump, jump across the water.

The fact that you have these two points so far off, ruins your entire argument. And I haven't even started on the other points.

The fact that Alliance has a racial which allows them to get a second straight DPS trinket only adds insult to injury. I WISH I could get away with that on my Undead Rogue. . . but I can not.

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