I wanted the Eagles to sign Malcolm Jenkins. Some fans wanted Jairus Byrd. Others wanted TJ Ward. Rumors had the team very interested in Mike Mitchell. Jenkins was my guy.

Why?

Malcolm Jenkins is not a great player. He’s not an elite playmaker. But I felt like he was the right guy for the Eagles. And that is more important that being the guy with the best stats or the biggest name. Sometimes the right fit is the star player. When you’re team signs that guy, you’re on Cloud Nine.

Jenkins is the right kind of person and the right kind of player. The back end of the defense needed a leader. Jenkins is a veteran who has won a Super Bowl and been part of some big games. He can handle pressure. He’s smart and he’s a good communicator. Jenkins can help Earl Wolff and other young players develop. He can also make a big impact on gamedays by running the secondary and making sure everyone is lined up correctly on a regular basis.

As a player, Jenkins’ best quality is his versatility. Put on a Saints game and you’ll see him in the box, playing centerfield. lined up in the slot and even occasionally lined up at outside corner. He can do it all.

That’s important for a couple of reasons. Bill Davis likes to blitz. If he has versatile DBs on the field, he can mix up assignments and coverages. Remember the Dallas game when Patrick Chung was 1-on-1 with Dez Bryant? That turned into a TD. I can’t guarantee Jenkins tackles Bryant short of the sticks or breaks up the pass, but I bet he wouldn’t have given up the long TD. That happened due to a blitz where Chung was required to cover a WR. Didn’t work at all. Davis can now use that play with a better hope for success.

Brandon Boykin is a terrific nickelback, but he had no real backup last year. If anything had happened to him, the Eagles would have put Roc Carmichael in there and the results likely wouldn’t have been very pretty. Jenkins has played the slot a ton for the Saints. He can handle that role if need be.

In terms of traditional Safety roles, Jenkins is a solid centerfielder and effective box player. He’s not great at either role. And that’s his biggest weakness…that he’s not a standout player in any one area. Jack of all trades, master of none. Jenkins isn’t going to step on the field and instantly make the defense something special. He’s not an impact player.

But think back to last year. The Eagles defense looked pretty darn good at times. They had a ton of issues on 3rd/long. Jenkins will get everyone lined up correctly. And he’s going to be a more aggressive tackler than Nate Allen. The Eagles were way too passive on some 3rd downs last year. If Jenkins can just help to clean up some 3rd down issues, he’ll help the Eagles a lot.

Jenkins does have very good man cover skills. Davis can use him against TEs. Jenkins is 6-0, 204, which is solid size. Nate Allen had some good moments in man coverage vs TEs, but Jenkins will be more consistent.

If you put Jenkins in the box, he’s not afraid to get physical and mix it up. He’s not going to light it up down there. Jenkins grew up playing CB so he’s not used to playing in a ton of traffic.

As to playmaking skills…check out 2013:

Jenkins – 2.5 sacks, 2 FFs, 2 INTs, 5 PDs, 5 TFLs.

Eagles Safeties – 1 sack, 1 FF, 2 INTs, 14 PDs, 4 TFLs

While Jenkins isn’t a great playmaker, he is an upgrade. And the price was right. He signed a very reasonable deal, getting 3 years for $16M. That gives the Eagles the flexibility to add other players. Heck, they could sign another Safety, They’ve got a shot in the Revis sweepstakes. And they’re checking out OLBs. I just don’t know if they’ll find anyone they like there.

Malcolm Jenkins doesn’t solve the position of Safety for the Eagles. He is a building block. He is a better player and leader than anyone the Eagles had last year. They can bring in another player via free agency or the draft and continue building up the position. If Nate Allen gets no interest from other teams, maybe he is willing to return as a backup. The Eagles could decide to bring back Kurt Coleman or Colt Anderson as STs/backups. I doubt both return, but one could.

Jenkins is an excellent start to helping to fix the defense. But there is still plenty of work to be done.

I think our standards are so low when it comes to Safeties that we’re happy just to get an average player. It’s interesting that New Orleans let him go without an offer and signed Byrd. Do they know something we don’t?

Anthony Hart

I don’t think it would be news to anyone that Byrd’s a better player than Jenkins, but the team didn’t want to wreck their cap to sign him like the Saints just did.

Buge Halls

Saints are going to have to drop at least two players to cover the cap space for Byrd. We’ll see how that works out for them.

philliesfan136

Their cap is going to increase by $ 4 million ( this year ) because of Byrd’s contract.

Scott J

Looks like NO is all-in this year. I don’t see how a safety will put them over the top – especially since they need to re-sign Graham. Very puzzling move by them.

Joe Murphy

I think they tagged Graham.

Sokhar20

He meant they will need to get Graham signed long-term.

livingonapear

They wanted Byrd so they put everything on him. They’re going to have a lot of money/cap tied up in safety so offering Jenkins anything would have been pointless.

DanJ3645

The Saints are in a different position than us. They obviously believe they don’t need the leadership and steady performance that Jenkins provides. Their programme is much further developed than ours, and probably have sufficient other leaders to replace him as captain and in the locker room

Jerry Pomroy

With the emergence of Vaccaro (a do-it-all type safety), Jenkins became expendable. Adding Byrd allows the Saints to use Vaccaro as the workhorse, with Byrd literally as the backstop just doing his thing patrolling deep and looking for the INT. It appears that Payton wanted to get stronger in the middle of the secondary and force more TOs. Brees is on the downside, so NO looks like their trying to sustain a little bit longer to make a run. Although, I just don’t know how they plan to pay both Byrd & keep Graham. If Graham gets away that would pretty much stalwart any real possibility of making a run.

Scott J

You just know Graham’s agent was on the phone with NO yelling “What the F, you assess have no money for Jimmy, but you have all that money for Byrd!” LOL.

philliesfan136

Now, that is a F______ing up the locker room signing.

Ben Hert

Brees is on the downside? His stats say otherwise.

Sb2bowl

He’s just saying that Bree’s is more “older than he is younger”… his stats are still top notch, but he’s going to be 483 years old next season, so time is running short on his plutonium heart

Tumtum

He is the best S we have had since Dawkins, yeah? Why not be happy? It seems like there is a ton of bad safety play in the NFL today. Its nice to have a guy you can count on.

Arby1

Teamed up with Calvin Pryor, Mr. Jenkins will do just fine.

new coach

Although we don’t love Nate, what about bringing him back on a cap-friendly deal (if he agrees) for depth? This would free us up more in the draft and we have the cap space.

Buge Halls

I really doubt he’ll get looks from anybody else, so he should come relatively cheap

Sb2bowl

I want to bring back Nate Allen…….. especially now. Jenkins is a vet, but then we have Wolff and Johnson, so our safeties are relatively young. Nate is only 26, but is a vet and could offer solid (if not unspectacular) play

ChaosOnion

Malcolm Jenkins is a great football player to add to our defense. No, he is not a star, but he is a leader and he is what the secondary needs. Samuel was a star, but not a leader. Owens was a star, but not a leader. Those guys did not help develop young talent. Leaders help develop young talent.

Wolff has someone to tell him what he is doing right and what he is doing wrong. The Eagles can now draft a young S and out him under less pressure because he is not expected to lead the secondary. Jenkins is the leader. This could also open the door for Allen to return. He would be a middle ground guy with playing experience who is still young enough to learn. And the pressure is off because Jenkins is the leader.

I am a little melancholy about Colt not coming back. He was our own special teams ace. I hope he catches on somewhere.

Anders

I think Jenkins is this years version of Barwin, but just for the secondary. He also sounds like a Chip Kelly type player who will buy in.

ChaosOnion

If he really is a Barwin in the secondary, it was a great signing by the Eagles.

Dominik

It was, but in the near future, we need stud players, real solutions. The jack of all trades players are very valuable (I really like Barwin), but you need star players, too. We shouldn’t just (!) rely on the draft to get them.

Anders

most stud players usually come in the draft.

ICDogg

Yep, and I think there are other factors at work too. Kelly has worked hard, along with his staff, to create a culture, an Eagles way of doing things (similar to his Oregon way of doing things) and he wants guys that are going to fit into that culture. Guys who will buy in and hopefully become leaders.

Some talented guys are not going to fit well into that. They’re used to their own ways of doing things and being successful. They may not buy in so easily to what Kelly wants to do.

Look at the character reputations of the 2 safeties the Eagles brought in. These are solid guys.

sprawl

If there were anyone out there in FA with the Talent + Culture fit Chip wanted then I’m sure we could see the big $$ come out. If they really believed in Byrd I’m sure we could have come up with $9 million for him but the fact that he’s on the Saints should tell us all that we need to know.

ICDogg

There’s also a matter of setting precedent for future negotiations. Once you start throwing 9M at a guy, you might have other guys on the team coming up for a new contract who think they’re at least as good as that guy and now all of a sudden they want 9M too.

philliesfan136

They all come from the draft ……. ( laughs )

livingonapear

I like the idea that we can buy low on talented players because we just know how to use other teams’ players better than they do.

Anders

I remember how a big part of the fan based freaked out over Davis and now we are thinking he might actually be able to coach.

47_Ronin

I’m glad you qualified your assessment with “might” I think there are still plenty of fans who remain skeptical of Billy Davis. He had some good and some bad last season, if the Eagles can infuse more talent on the defense (esp. The pass rush) that would go a lot towards showing Davis has grown and improved as a DC.

livingonapear

Honestly I’m more impressed with the group coaches, or at least I attribute most of the success to them. That’s not say I don’t give a lot of credit to Billy Davis, but something tells me that Chip’s practice regimen and the coaching staff he pulled together is about maximizing talent.

deg0ey

I’d be more likely to compare him to Ryans – good leader, solid but not spectacular on the field.

D3FB

I think it was actually Barwin in his article on MMQB a couple weeks ago where he said “the best lockers rooms are the ones where the vets are helping the young guys take their jobs”.

I like it. Jenkins isn’t a flashy signing, but it’s still solid. Now get an OLB and we start thinking about the draft.

Mitchell

Is Maragos a better special teams player than what we had. We all know we need better special teams.

Anders

He was the best ST’er on one of the best ST units last year

Mitchell

That works for me.

Sb2bowl

He’s like Colt Anderson on adderall…..

bubqr

Jenkins is exactly the same kind of signing than Barwin was last year. You get a starter, quite durable, not a great player in any way but competent, high character, without breaking the bamk. Then, you hope to get your star players in the draft.

Now let’s go get Demarcus Ware.

Mitchell

And I would almost argue Barwin turned out to be more than what we expected. He is a great player.

Anders

but but PFF does not like him…….

Seriously Barwin was great for us last year and I think Jenkins will be good for us as well.

DanJ3645

Can any one remember what (if any) involvement Jenkins had in the bounty hunting?

Alex Karklins

Looks like Colt Anderson is gone for good with the Maragos signing. The Eagles now have no Grizzly depth at all. I’ll have to count on the Birds drafting OLB Jordan Tripp in order to maintain a University of Montana presence on the team.

D3FB

I heard they are planning on signing an actual Grizzly from Montana to play nose. Nobody wants to block that guy. Granted getting him lined up will be a bit of a challenge.

Alex Karklins

I’ll take it!

barneygoogle

Jenkins may not look so great, but if he’s a film hawk, maybe he’ll stop most of those blown coverages. He has to be better than not well-hung, a lotta dung Chung.

Mike Roman

A lot of people are unhappy with what the Eagles did (or didn’t do) yesterday in free agency. I think after hearing Revis’ and Ware’s names tossed out, we were all waiting to see who the Eagles signed “next”. At the end of the day we just had Malcolm Jenkins and it was a bit of a buzz kill. I was a little bit upset myself at first but having a night to sleep on it helped me put some things in perspective.

The Eagles aren’t done yet. There are still some names out there that can help this team. And after the first day flurry, prices for these guys become more reasonable. I am interested in Mike Neal. I am still of the belief that we can upgrade over Cary Williams. Revis would be nice but it looks like the Pats have the inside track. Captain Munnerlynn is a good player. Thurmond and Browner are still out there. Corey Graham hasn’t signed yet and is versatile.

If the Eagles don’t add some more pieces in the next few days, then I’ll be upset. But I don’t think that the fact that we didn’t land one of the big names is cause for concern. It seems like the Saints and Broncos (and maybe the Patriots depending on Revis) are willing to go all in for this year. Maybe the Eagles don’t feel like someone like Demarcus Ware is going to be enough to put them over the top and they’re still a couple years away. I’m okay with that (although I would have loved to see him rotating with Cole or putting them on the field together in certain packages).

There’s still the draft. Or as I like to call it, Popeye’s Chicken and cheap champagne night. The latest mocks are showing the safeties starting to fall. Not that you can put stock in the mock drafts, but I think if Ha Ha or Pryor start to slip, the Eagles aren’t opposed to moving to get them. Pryor and Jenkins together? Now we’re talking.

Ok, I’m done rambling. Just give it another day or two before you start getting pissed.

Tumtum

I’m good with the moves so far. I’m not sold that any of the guys listed would be in the budget or a significant upgrade if they were.

Browner does intrigue me. I like Graham, but is he better than Fletcher or Williams? The Ravens didn’t like him more than Williams or he would of been the starter. Is it fiscally responsible to sign someone if they are just a slightly better player on film?

If they sign an FA this early in the process he should be clearly better than the alternative. Maybe next week they can start adding depth guys. As far as starters go though I would not be the list bit upset if they were done.

Mike Roman

I like Graham for his versatility. If you need Boykin on the outside (for whatever reason), Jenkins can slide to the slot, and Graham could fill in at safety. I also think he’d be a slight upgrade over Roc Carmichael.

Mike Neal provides a young pass rusher, and he’s also versatile. The question is if he’s any better than Brandon Graham. If the Eagles plan on moving Graham, then we definitely need depth on the outside. If they think he can improve in his 2nd year in the scheme than I’ll trust their judgement.

I said wait a day or two, but you could be right, maybe a week is more reasonable. Maybe we can meet in the middle? Another day or two to find guys who might compete for starting jobs, another week or so to fill depth.

Tumtum

I can get on board with that plan.

On a side note Graham’s primary responsibility has been nickle in Bmore. So I agree with your scenario of having gaps filled should Boykin get hurt. Just not where the guys would play:)

Mike Roman

Ha, yeah. I’m moving two pieces when you only need to move one.

Tumtum

I can get on board with that.

Joe Murphy

An upgrade over whom? Pat Chung? Well I agree with that. But no one expected Chung to be here anyway. I think we all hoped for a playmaker here. Maybe we went from having a safety who sucked to a safety who doesn’t suck.

Cafone

Maybe that’s enough.

Mac

If you read Brent’s article at Eagles rewind, that’s pretty much his argument. We don’t have to go from garbage to culinary excellence… just going from garbage to something that’s actually edible is enough to improve the defense significantly.

BobSmith77

Roseman’s drafts have been better the last 2 years but even last year when the Eagles employed the ‘spread the wealth’ philosophy in FA they had as many busts (Casey, Chung, Sopoaga) as they did hits (Barwin, C. Williams, Fletcher).

If Jenkins is the only real piece they add to this defense, that’s a huge problem because this defense still isn’t very good. With the exception of Boykins and possibly Kendricks, there aren’t natural playmakers on this defense, paper mache thin everywhere yet with the exception possibly at DE, and were ridiculously easily to move the ball against last year with teams moving up and down the field with frightening regularity.

They did improve over the course of the season, play well in the red zone, and force turnover but that helped to cover up for what wasn’t a very good defense. Also a defense that for the most part stayed healthy almost all year and very healthy in the 2nd half.

If Roseman thinks this defense is good enough for a SB contender, he is sadly mistaken. Willing to see what else they do yet since there is still some time in FA & draft but Jenkins is more is a marginal upgrade over Chung. Chung was simply so poor overall last year that anyone coming in is almost automatically an improvement.

Cafone

How much have Roseman’s recent busts cost the Eagles? (though I think calling Casey a bust is going too far)

Overall, it seems to me that the value of the recent FA hits far outweighs anything the Eagles have lost by having a few of them bust.

BobSmith77

That is assuming he had nothing to do with the FA signings 2 years ago.

I always thought that was complete BS and that Roseman did play a role (even if a minor role) instead of the ‘Sgt Schutlz’ routine Lurie told about him.

Cafone

Yeah, but in the end your suspicions mean nothing because you have no inside information and really have no idea at all. Almost all of the evidence points to the opposite conclusion, and as we move forward it doesn’t really matter does it? Whether or not Howie learned from his mistakes or the mistakes of Bannner/Reid, it looks like he learned from those mistakes and he’s gone in the exact opposite direction, much to the consternation of many fans.

BobSmith77

We’ll see. I admit I wasn’t a big fan at all of bringing Roseman on board as the GM. Drafts the last 2 years have been better.

I always wanted to see where this team was at the 3rd year of Kelly’s tenure because by then it would have been largely shaped by Roseman’s decisions.

Got a ton of credit in FA last year too but I felt it was more a ‘quantity is a quality all its own’ and for a team that had so many needs & coming off a very poor season it was the proper approach.

BobSmith77

The basic issue came down to the fact that Lurie whitewashed any of Roseman’s culpability in the disastrous ’10 and ’11 drafts and ’11 offseason even though Roseman was the GM at that point. Lurie painted the blame on Banner after he left for Cleveland and to a lesser degree Reid.

The last 2 years there have been been a role reversal though with Roseman getting a lot more credit (’12 and ’13 drafts and FA last year) even though Kelly supposedly has final say in all personnel moves.

philliesfan136

You sir ……………. are correct. Don’t let the sheeple wear you down.

philliesfan136

Thank you, finally a brain.

TheRogerPodacter

i wouldn’t even call Sopoaga a bust, either.
both him and Casey served the same role: a veteran player at a position of need to fill a roster spot with serviceable talent which allows us to look for BPA in the draft. How could we have predicted that we would get Ertz and Logan? How could we have predicted that they would both be able to contribute in their rookie season?
Sure, we could have cut both Casey and Sopoaga as soon as the draft ended, but thats just poor management. you already paid for the guy…

philliesfan136

Are you serious ….. Soap was on the Eagles roster for two ( 2 ) games, and they paid him $ 2.5 million dollars ???

D3FB

He was on the roster for 8 games but once again, continue to argue with incorrect “facts”.

therevxxx

you left Jones off the FA hits from last season

BobSmith77

I did and good point.

anon

and kenny williams, and a. benn, etc.

Anthony Hart

It hasn’t even been free agency for 24 hours. Maybe we should wait like a week or two maybe until the draft before we freak out over the roster?

BobSmith77

NFL FA though isn’t like MLB where it plays out over the course of weeks and even a few months where there are still some good options left.

Plays out quickly with most of the piece off the board quite soon.

We’ll see but Jenkins doesn’t do much for me either way. More of a filler-type.

laeagle

No, it plays out over the course of the week. It did for us last year, it even did for us in the “Dream Team” year, where a lot of guys came in on Friday and Saturday (Nnamdi, Cullen Jenkins). Every year it works like that and every year people panic on Wednesday.

BobSmith77

Yeah a week max but even by even by the 3rd or 4th day it has largely played out and that my larger point.

laeagle

I think A Hart was saying, let’s see where we are in a week, not let’s see who we sign next week. As in, one day does not equal one week.

laeagle

You’re missing quite a bit of the obvious here:

1. The fact that we got three solid hits in FA yesterday is exactly why it’s not a great gamble to go all in on one player. Howie himself said as much.

2. “With the exception of (list three things that would indicate a good defense), this was not a very good defense.” That’s the equivalent of saying, “with the exception of all of those playoff wins, the Seahawks did not have good season last year.”

As for the Howie/DreamTeam stuff, I’m so tired of hearing about how horrible that was. The team swung and missed. Any other fans in the world would have been ecstatic that their team signed those guys. They didn’t work out, which is sad, but the key thing everyone is forgetting is that there were little to no cap implications after it didn’t work out. I don’t care what say Howie had in picking the guys. The point is that he worked out the contracts, and how he worked them out meant that there was no impact to things not working out, from a financial and cap perspective. That’s a good job no matter how you look at it, and everyone conveniently forgets it because it’s easier to say “Dream Team”, laugh, and not actually think. If that had been the Cowboys or Redskins, they’d have been in even worse cap shape than they are now. And that’s saying something.

BobSmith77

Fine then look at the objective stats on defense. It was a middling group overall and in a lot categories a Bottom 10 or 15 group.

laeagle

“They did improve over the course of the season.”
— You

Think about what that means statistically.

BobSmith77

So you are going to discount the first half of the season? Can’t cherry-pick and completely remove selective samples.

bsuperfi

This is the truth. Howie appears to have quite an eye for strategic team building. He’s really good at taking measured risks and hedging his bets. He’s not afraid to be aggressive, but he’s not reckless. He picks his spots well. He’s a strong organizational thinker, which jives with Kelly and Reid before him. And even Banner.

This all tells me Lurie is a pretty good owner, and that’s something we take for granted at this point.

laeagle

But..but..I know a guy who knows a guy who said Lurie was mean to the milkman! How could he possibly be a good owner?

BobSmith77

What does anything I have said mention Lurie in the least? Lurie has been fine as an owner because he has always stayed out of the way, spent money including in FA on big names FAs, and round a financially sound organization.

I have never had any issues with Lurie as an owner despise not winning a SB. He’s been fine.

laeagle

It took you a long time to come to that conclusion, if I recall correctly. And anyway, it wasn’t a reply specifically to you, just to the idea of Lurie being a good owner, which many fans seem to still have trouble with.

I won’t deny it was a subtle poke in your ribs, though…

BobSmith77

When have I ever said on this board that I had an issue with Lurie?

He’s been fine. Largely even keep his high-profile divorce which was supposedly nasty and involved a ton of lawyers out of the limelight & seemingly didn’t let it affect the running of the team when it easily could have.

One of the dumbest things Eagles’ fan says is that Lurie is ‘cheap’ (very few NFL owners are cheap with a few exceptions) and that Eagles doesn’t spend in FA especially on high-profile FAs. Both are wrong.

laeagle

It wasn’t here, it was at Sheil & Tim’s site. But I agree with your statement about cheap.

TheRogerPodacter

“When have I ever said on this board that I had an issue with Lurie?”

your comments in this exact thread seem to be saying that you don’t trust the words that Lurie is saying. that seems like an issue to me, but then again, i’m no expert on issues.

BobSmith77

Different issue than him being a competent owner or not.

What you want is an owner who hires his people, is willing to generally spend money, and stay out of the way of personnel decisions/daily running of the team.

Lurie has by almost all accounts done that. Basically a positive instead of a negative by just hiring competent people & getting out of the way. Say the same for a ton of other industries and examples too.

Cafone

Also, he stuck with Reid longer than many owners would have. In retrospect of course, you could say that didn’t work out, but I’d rather have an owner err on the side with sticking with personnel rather than Steinbrenering (or can we call that Snydering now?).

And let’s not forget the stadium… The Linc is pretty sweet and he had a lot to do with getting it built.

All said and done… best Eagles owner ever.

BobSmith77

This train of thought utterly baffles me. Roseman had no culpability the first 2 years he was a GM in either the draft or FA and yet the last 2 years he has played an integral role?

Classic organizational spin especially for a guy who has been internally groomed for a leadership spot and is now in place.

You still don’t really know enough about Roseman to say he ‘has quite an eye for strategic team building’ and yeah I don’t understand how his last FA was so brilliant.

Eagles signed a ton of middle-tier players simply because the roster was so thread bare. Some worked, some didn’t but it was a mixed bag overall as you would expect.

Neil

Lurie implied pretty clearly that Roseman’s assessments didn’t line up with the team’s actions those years. EG, he said no way in hell should we draft Watkins in the first, but he was overridden by Andy and/or Banner. I don’t see why such a thing as this is farfetched to some people.

BobSmith77

Of course that is Lurie would publicly state and especially the part about placing the blame on Banner after he left.

That’s is how any classic management change at the top works. You stick as much garbage as you can to the old management team and any internal leftovers who are promoted for leadership changes are supposedly fresh as a daisy.

Neil

OK, so you think Lurie was misrepresenting the situation, and I don’t.

However, I will say that Lurie has run a very successful team for a long time. I’m not sure why you are so distrustful of him.

BobSmith77

Spinning it to avoid placing Roseman in potentially difficult starting place from a public perception standpoint and trying to move past the unpopularity of the last 2-3 years of Reid/Banner? Yeah I do but that is standard.

Neil

OK, but here’s the thing. Lurie wouldn’t have kept a guy who he had to lie to the public about on his culpability in the recent terrible decisions. He would fire him like Banner and Reid.

laeagle

Logic and common sense like that has no place when trying to reaffirm one’s bias.

If it means Coleman is gone, then I’m happy. For whatever reason, Coleman has been my least favorite Eagles’ player in some time.

Cafone

I liked Coleman, but I think I understand why so many people did not: he played to the best of his abilities, but the abilities were not NFL level. He was a player with no upside. When it comes to marginal players, fans like to think there’s a chance that there’s something more there that can be brought out.

BobSmith77

I usually love the underachievers but Coleman just struck me more of a dumba$$ who didn’t play smart or utilize his skills to the best of his ability.

laeagle

But he had arm tattoos, which grant the user power.

ICDogg

I agree. Fans seem to hate these types of guys, but coaches love them.

BobSmith77

Coleman got almost completely phased out by Kelly though last year despite the horrific safety play at times.

Combined with his minimal contributions on special teams the last 2 years and I understood why the Eagles are moving on.

ICDogg

Sure, it’s understandable, but don’t hate a guy for being as good as he can be. He’s just not talented enough.

DRC. Here was a guy who just didn’t care. Didn’t try. All the talent in the world. I see Denver’s not bringing him back, even though he gave a lot bigger effort for them than for us.

Didn’t hate Coleman for not being good. Not at all. Just the fact that he talked too so much smack, did stupid and foolish things on the field at time including taking unnecessary penalties, & played dirty at times.

BobSmith77

Comparing apples to oranges though.

ICDogg

Just providing an example of a guy who deserves our scorn.

Cafone

Good point… when they were rushing back an injured Chung rather than play Coleman the writing was on the wall.

Maggie

Thanks. Something of a ballhawk and a hitter. Let’s remember, too, the Seahawks did not get a single unnecessary roughness penalty in the SB game, yet were hitting. Hard, but legally.

Saints fans hate the guy. He’s not very good. Versatile? I guess. I mean he can do a little of everything, but not very well. He’s an upgrade in the most modest sense, unless a light really goes on.

That said, would rather this than pay Byrd 9 mil a year. He ain’t worth 9 mil.

sprawl

I really wanted to see us sign Byrd but yeah… not for 9 million.

Going to be interesting to see how Byrd’s INT stats look now that he doesn’t get to play against the Jets twice a season. I’d imagine the Buffalo D-Line played a pretty big role in generating those INTs as well.

Yep, Bills have a great pass rush, Saints have a marginal one. And the injury alone makes him not worth 9 mil, much less the fact that his play doesn’t merit that type of pay. He’s not Earl Thomas/Ed Reed good, but he’s getting Earl Thomas/Ed Reed kind of money.

Adam

Didn’t the Saints have like 50 sacks last year? Pretty sure they were only a few behind Buffalo.

You realize the typical Saints fans are the same caliber as the guys in TATE shouting “URRLACCHERRRRZZZZZ!” every offseason, right? Or as someone else pointed out previously, what did Chargers fans think when they read our comments on King Dunlap? That turned out pretty well for them. I’ve read “Saints fans say he sucks” and “PFF (who thinks Brandon Graham is the second coming of Reggie White) says he sucks,” but I’ve not seen any analyst or expert say that. I trust Tommy’s eye, and he doesn’t think so. And I trust our FO.

So I’m not sweating the signing, or the fact that we didn’t sign TJ Ward.

Well, I’m from Louisiana, so quite versed in Saints culture. They are passionate fans. They are annoying just like Eagles fans are annoying to others, IMO.

I’m just saying that I don’t think Jenkins is all that good. I don’t think anyone is thumping their chests for the guy, and I don’t think paying 9 mil for Byrd was wise, but I see teeth gnashing about this signing in the future when the safety play is still pretty marginal.

Adam

To put it frankly, I couldn’t care less what the Saints fans. Imagine what the Chargers fans were reading from the Eagles fans after they signed Dunlap. Or Denver with DRC. Fans are not accurate barometers or anything.

CrackSammich

Jenkins is probably an upgrade over Chung, but he’s really replacing Allen the way the roster stands. The starters were Wolff and Allen up until Wolff got hurt, and right now they are most likely Wolff and Jenkins. That seems like a lateral move to me, though Jenkins brings with him the veteran presence and the lack of hatred that Allen still unjustly receives.

Mitchell

I guess I would vote to either pick up another FA safety or sign Nate and then still go ahead and draft another safety high. We need some help back there still.

Mike Roman

Off the Eagles topic for a sec, but can anyone tell me what in the hell Oakland is doing? They have more money under the cap than anyone and couldn’t pony up to keep ANY of their own players? They let some talent walk out the door. I just don’t get it.

CrackSammich

Nobody wants to play for Oakland.

Mike Roman

That’s about my best guess too.

Patrick

I don’t think its a guess to be honest, i think you’re both 100 % right. All I heard about Jared Veldheer is that he has been a phenomenal LT in the NFL, he will only turn 27 this and he only signed a contract worth 7 APY(The notoriously injured Jake Long signed for 8,5 mil APY). No way that the Raiders don’t pay a 27 year old franchise LT more than what he got from the Cards. I think its obvious that he just wanted out. I even saw some tweets that Veldheers agent wasn’t even willing to talk to the Raiders.
The same could be said for Lamar Houston. I know his stats isn’t off the charts, but i hear good things about him, specifically his run stopping. Maybe the Bears paid a little too much, but again, a 27 year old proven pass rusher in the NFL and the Raiders weren’t even in it.

One of my major things in regards to the NFL is that you NEVER overpay. EVER! The only thing it does it get you in cap trouble. But damn, the Raiders are in trouble here. Poor McKenzie, i think he has done a terrific job so far, but that organization still seems to be dysfunctional. I’m starting to think the way to go is simply: Los Angeles Raiders

Mike Roman

I’m not a Raiders fan one way or the other but the NFL just seems more fun when they are relevant. I think McKenzie had them going in the right direction and this could have been a good off season for them. It’s too bad.

Christopher Miller

Wonder what Byrd signing means for Graham. If he came free would love to see the eagles take a run at him. Graham, Ertz, Shady, Djax, Mac sounds like a nightmare for a defense.

ICDogg

I guess they might pull the tag. Who knows.

Weapon Y

The Saints clearly felt Byrd was an upgrade, considering they let Jenkins walk. They just outsmarted us in the playoffs and did it again in the offseason. This isn’t the Skins or Cowboys. This is Sean Payton. A Super Bowl winning coach who knows what he’s doing. They clearly feel Jenkins is Patrick Chung 2.0 or Kurt Coleman 3.0. They’re showing they have a better prowess for winning yet again.

Neil

These comments are at least a year premature.

Weapon Y

So are all the comments from people saying Jenkins is definitely going to be good on that basis. What’s wrong with predictions?

CrackSammich

Optimism is infinitely less annoying than this sky-is-falling routine. If that’s your thing, Birds 24/7 has got bridge jumpers littered throughout their comments.

BobSmith77

Nobody is saying the ‘sky is falling’ and I understand the Eagles’ hesitation about Byrd especially if they think his feet/plantar fascitis are going be a lingering issue that hobbles Byrd in the future.

Jenkins is a plugger (even Kelly’s primary praise about was about ‘versatility’) who is largely an upgrade over the guy he replaced only because the bar was so low. Literally the Eagles could have signed/drafted anyone early who was an upgrade over Chung.

If Jenkins is a competent starter next year it was an ‘okay’ signing but I don’t see how he moves the needle much one way or another.

Adam

Considering the lack of talent at the safety position as a whole in the NFL, if the Eagles get a competent starting safety for 5.5 mil a year that’s a more than an “okay” signing. That’s a good deal. Especially how little we committed to him in guaranteed money.

Ark87

probably not. IMO the safeties did their role reasonably well last year. It’s just the D couldn’t ever get off the field on 3rd down. Could probably use a more reliable pass rush more than anything. Some more speed in the secondary might be better at stopping ball carriers before they get past the sticks though.

Neil

I don’t see anyone saying Jenkins is definitely going to be good. Most people are celebrating the contract, as opposed to Byrd’s, because both might end up flops. The problem with predictions is that they’re probably not right. And, I mean, look at your original post. You’re getting awfully worked up over a mere potentiality. It’s not even that. Even if Byrd succeeds with the saints for reasons I’ve written a few comments about here, that doesn’t mean he would succeed with us. You can make a good case that the eagles shouldn’t have splurged on a guy who didn’t fit EXACTLY what they wanted to do. And they didn’t.

Weapon Y

Why wouldn’t Byrd fit what the Eagles exactly wanted to do? He came from Oregon, the same school where the Eagles current head coach came from. Regardless, talent is talent. Would you care if Terrelle Pryor was a better fit than Peyton Manning? Hell no. You take Peyton Manning. Same thing with Jenkins and Byrd.

Neil

Byrd is subpar in any role besides playing deep zone. The eagles want their safeties to be able to do everything. Come into the box, cover slot receivers and TEs, etc. Austinfan also makes a good case that Byrd is not particularly talented. He has to cheat (by getting closer to one side of the field) to make his plays because he’s not a very good runner, which can leave the CB on the further side high and dry. It’s fine if you have extremely talented, fast CBs who don’t necessarily rely on a safety over the top, like the Bills, but the eagles don’t have such CBs.

Weapon Y

I’m not a Bills fan or a Saints fan, and it isn’t my job to be experts on NFL safeties. Im deferring my judgment to Sean Payton, a Super Bowl winning coach, who let Jenkins walk so he could get an upgrade in Byrd. This guy knows football. I’m simply deferring to what Bills and Saints fans I know have to say. Bills fans say they loved Jairus Byrd and Saints fans say they’re happy Malcolm Jenkins is gone. If the tape shows something different, then God bless Malcolm Jenkins and damn Jairus Byrd. I could easily be wrong because I am not an expert at safeties, just a fan trying to gather some info and form an opinion. I hope Jenkins becomes a ten-time All-Pro as an Eagle. I’m just tired of the over the top optimism for every single free agent we ever bring in. Let’s set expectations a little lower for a player like Jenkins who hasn’t earned accolades from his peers.

Neil

I’ve said this elsewhere, but the Saints defense is not built on versatile players. They’re going to line up Byrd as the single deep safety play after play. They’re going to have him do the one thing he’s so good at. IE, Byrd fits what they want to do. It’s not as simple as talent.

And despite that, in my opinion, they’re going to regret that contract because of Austinfan’s observations of Byrd.

NinjaP

Who cares about the saints? The eagles don’t play them next year.

eagleyankfan

I would think we’d care since the Saints kicked our asses last year. The goal is always to get as good as OR better than the teams that are better than we are. If the Saints are throwing out the trash to get better — why would we pick it up their trash?

Sokhar20

Free agency is pretty much by definition picking up someone else’s trash, barring rare few cases.

Kicked our ass? That’s a very interesting way of describing losing a game on the final drive. The Vikings kicked our ass. Denver took us in a back room and had their way with us. We just lost to the Saints.

NinjaP

Yeah the old 2 point beatdown. Like I said we don’t play them and it is very unlikely we ever do.

Maggie

If the Saints outsmarted the Eagles by signing Byrd, then they also outsmarted the dozen other teams who also wanted a safety.

Weapon Y

That’s true, but, unlike the other teams, we also signed the guy the Saints dumped so they could get Byrd

Unless Casey Matthews is slotted to be a back-up ILB, his tenure here is over.

Mitchell

His reign of tyranny is finally at an end.

Cafone

Be the most popular guy at the stadium with your Braman jersey!

Neil

Something that should be said about Byrd’s ridiculous contract, he’s a great fit for a 1 gap scheme like in NO. He can just sit in the deep middle most every play. In Philly, when you have 3 monsters eating gaps, the calls involve more 2 deep, and if they don’t they involve a lot more subterfuge. You need guys with well rounded skillsets who can succeed in a variety of roles or else just sit back and handle the much easier responsibility of a deep half. That’s not worth 9, 8 or probably 7 million if the guy you’re looking at can’t at least do all of those things on top of being some kind of playmaker.

Patrick

I agree about the whole fit thing, although not everyone seems to understand why we didn’t have interest in TJ Ward because of it, not to mention that the same people tend to ignore that TJ Ward went to the team who dominated the league on offense until they met Seattle and has Peyton Manning. The Eagles might be on the up and up, but we got dominated by plenty of teams, including Nawlins and Nick Foles is not Peyton Manning.
I think you make a very good point about what a safety is worth to you, but I might take it a step further. Our head coach is Chip Kelly, who no one should question is an offensive minded coach. People might not agree, but Chip Kellys team will utilize offense to win. Its should really not be a surprise that the Eagles under Chip Kelly will spent more of the salary cap on offense, because thats what Chip Kelly values. A 9 million deal p/y for a safety to other people, might be a 11 mil. p/y to Chip Kelly. A safety in general might not be worth 8-9 million to Chip Kelly, maybe he doesn’t even value any defensive player that high.

Sokhar20

It would seem the entire league didn’t have much interest in TJ Ward, particularly his former team–who paid more money to get Donte Whitner instead. That to me suggests that fans probably have an overly inflated idea of his talent level.

Patrick

Agreed, or he just made it clear that he was signing with Denver for a chance to win.

Sokhar20

Definitely possible. In which case if he felt Denver was his best chance to win, then the Eagles weren’t signing him even if they wanted to.

Neil

Everything I’ve read says he would prefer to skimp on offense because he thinks he can scheme around talent deficiencies, whereas on defense you need the talent that can react to whatever is thrown at them. Also ties in with his love of versatile defensive players rather than one dimensional, albeit dangerous, ones like Byrd.

You’d love to have a 6’7, 400lb guy who can run a 4.3 at every position, obviously. I’m just talking about general philosophy.

Mike Roman

Another special teamer signed. I guess the goal is to have the best coverage units in the league this year. Back in my day you got special teamers in, you know, the 6th round.

Jarrod

Top 5 offense, Middle of the pack defense and bottom 10 ST. Where do you think we needed an upgrade? You could also say ST was largely responsible for the loss to the Saints and would have been in a loss to the Lions had Shady not went off for a franchise record in rushing yards.

Mike Roman

I was just being sarcastic — because you know people are going to bitch that we are signing special teams instead of Ware, Revis, etc.

Jarrod

Sarcasm missed, my bad

Mike Roman

I guess the way it reads there really was no way to tell. And as Mitchell is stating below, you’re upgrading depth at S and LB at the same time. I think Casey Matthews is going to have a hard time sticking.

ICDogg

The ST’s were to me the biggest disappointment of last season.

Mitchell

So we know the guys we signed can play ST but are they better back ups than Matthews and Anderson? If they can play ST better than these two AND are better backups, how is this not a win?

BobSmith77

Agreed. ST coverage was horrendous at times last year especially later in the year and anything to upgrade depth on defense is a positive.

Anderson was a liability whenever he was out there beside ST and Matthews was little more than roster filer.

Mitchell

Then with these guys as backups, you are able to draft one more at each position as future starters for that position. ie Zumwalt for ILB.

Maggie

I think too many fans say,K kick the ball out of the endzone,” and that is all Special Teams do. They seem to forget the other part, about what to do when the other team is kicking. Running the ball back a long way.

Ark87

Apologies to any who have already seen this post on phillymag but I’d thought I’d throw it up to get some feedback from the classiest of Eagles fans on the web:

Just a point of discussion: Versatility

Chip clearly values it about as much as anyone. Belichick-esque. When we look at the FA signings we’ve made since chip arrived, the word has always been versitility. James Casey, Connor Barwin, Barbre, Malcolm Jenkins, etc. Even the draft, they loved Logan and Ertz’s versatility. This is clearly a key trait our FO is looking for.

How do you guys feel about it? I personally enjoy the specialists, who are really great at their primary role. Of course the weakness is the roster can end up a bit rigid and vulnerable to the injury bug (in the sense that when a specialist goes down, his back-up may be more of a special teams specialist, etc), but has a higher ceiling imo.

Mitchell

That’s what I was asking below, if the guys we just signed are better at ST AND are better backups than Colt and Matthews, I consider this a huge win. They will always be backups for a reason and we may as well take advantage at what they are good at.

Another point to mention is that ST is, I feel, vastly overlooked and with a great ST, these guys may be able to mask some of the deficiencies they would show as backups.

And finally we don’t have to worry about starters getting hurt because of, well, you know, sport science and stuff.

Ark87

Someone else liked the Versatility from a schematic standpoint. Being able to do a lot more without substitutions.

I do like versatile back-ups. I think of guys like Barbre. Pretty much any guy on the O-line could go down, and I felt Barbre was a solid back-up.

But Chip seems to like the versatility on his starters as well, and not just in the way of “also plays ST”. Think about a guy like Logan, plays all downs, can play DE. Seems solid at all of that, but not stand out at any of it, yet.

Neil

There’s value in being able to disguise what you’re doing and being able to mix it up. If you have Ward and Byrd, the offense knows what they’re going to be doing the vast majority of the time, and they can call a play that will take advantage of that knowledge. The defense is limited too. You can’t play those guys as the 2 deep men without making Ward do something he’s not very good at. You can’t play 0 deep without making Byrd do something he’s not good at.

Zepi

Versatility could be where the defense needs to go. If offenses are going more no huddle we can’t get in substitutions for special packages. If we have more versatilty on the field we won’t need to substitute to call exotic plays on defense. I like versatility.

TheRogerPodacter

another side of it is the ability of the defense to overcome injuries if all of the players on D can handle multiple roles

A_T_G

When you get that feedback, make sure you post it here so we can read it too!

* ( This for you ( moron’s ) is called a flow of information diagram. )
Ironic how, as YOU say , ” Tommy has been prepping us for this. ”
I would like …… just ONE F_____ing clown to disagree with this statement …….. Spending BIG money, on { a – singular } ( perceived ) TOP tier free agent, is not ( in itself ) a mistake.
BUT
Now ….. given that, occasionally spending big, is NOT a WRONG thing to do ….. as long as it is ONLY done, to fill needed holes, in the roster, when a ( YOUNG – ELITE – PRO BOWL ) player is available.
Now ….. when the 2011 free agency fiasco happened, was it the MONEY that was spent that was the problem …….or as the PROBLEM ,who the money was spent on …..?
Do your own f_____ing research, like I did! GO see the other cornerbacks, who went in free agency in 2011. See how much they went for. You WILL see what I did ….. they never should have signed Nnamdi Aosugmghu. They didn’t need to either A) Get another corner – already had Asante Samuel. or B) Could have signed other, better corners, at less money.
They got GREEDY, they wanted to make a BIG SPLASH, and make a BIG run for Andy Reid, because they knew that the window was closing on him in Philadelphia.

My whole point is NOT to throw money around in free agency like a drunken sailor, but to target ( MAJOR ) areas of need, ( especially if the team has shown, that it has been, a problem to fix that position ) such as SAFETY, for the Eagles.

The ( Next years cap ) NON issue / issue
———————————————————
When the Eagles cut : Trent Cole, Brandon Graham, James Casey, DeMeco Ryans, next year ……… they WILL have $ 21 million in cap space added to the 2015 cap. This does not include other POSSIBLE players like : Todd Herremans and Brent Celek also. ( another $ 7.6 million)
If you take the $ 21 million and add the $ 7 million salary cap increase for 2015, that equals $ 28 million. That is more than they had THIS year …. and that’s without ANY carry over money from the 2014 cap. If they carry over a minimal $ 5 million from 2014 cap to 2015 cap, that will increase their cap space for 2015 from $ 28 million to $ 33 million.

We don’t want to upset ( all the PRO BOWLERS ) on defense, ( sarcasim ) by bringing in HIGH paid players.
Where are ALL these GREAT f_____ing players on DEFENSE that are going to piss and cry about a Eagles signing a big time player ? This is ( according to REAL / FORMER and CURRENT NFL players ) who were asked about this, said it is a NON issue. It’s only when a team brings in OVER PAID players who CAN”T play, ( Asomugha ) when other players get upset.

Please tell us how Byrd, Ward or Verner would have fared in a defense that has little to none pass rush and no stud CB playing with them.

You bring up research but you state nothing of it. Revisionist #7218472432 from phillymag

Mitchell

It’s simple then, don’t come on this site anymore so you dnt have to deal with us “ass kissing ducks”

A Roy

I don’t have to make any assumptions to see and know that you, truly, are an asshole. I’m not bothering to disagree with your stats/opinions…or agree, for that matter…I’m just letting you know how obvious an asshole you are. Don’t come in to someone’s house and insult the owner. Respectful disagreement would be in order.
| /
— —
/ |
With apologies to Kurt Vonnegut, I drew your picture.

A Roy

By the way, morons, as a plural is spelled this way. Using it in the way you did…possessive or as a contraction…lends credence to my high school theory.

philliesfan136

Thank you, for your well thought out, and articulate reply. Are you, by any chance, a Mensa member ?

A_T_G

I am pretty sure you aren’t asking because you think you might have seen him at a meeting.

Cafone

mensa burn!

philliesfan136

Circle jerks.

Cafone

Great band.

A Roy

I always preferred the Hooters…

A Roy

I refuse to belong to any organization that’s willing to have me as a member. Are you, by any chance, still in high school? I might forgive some of your asholeiddity then.

Maggie

A new descriptive adjective! I believe I’ll add it to my list for future use! Thank you.

Stephen Stempo

man up and post under your real name.

Ark87

Tommy’s been saying this for weeks, so either you’re implying that Roseman lets Tommy in on his plans and Tommy has been prepping us for this, or you need to get a hold of your emotions man.

You didn’t get who you want, you’re not ok with that. Some people are, don’t hate on them for it.

Mitchell

*deleted because I don’t argue with Reh-tards.

philliesfan136

” God of the NFL ? ” …… What are you 12 yrs. old ?

Mitchell

LOL are you? Look what you wrote above. LOL. Go home you’re drunk.

A Roy

Gee, and he never got to the part about where Byrd only played in 11 games last year and has bad feet. Another year or so and Byrd will run like Pat Burrell.

Adam

Pretty impressive, you hide behind the internet to take personal shots at a guy who writes on a free blog. Get the fuck outta here.

philliesfan136

Hide, hide……. how do you want me to express my opinion ….. come to your house ? Just because my opinion is negative or doesn’t fit yours, that means i’m hiding ……? Grow up.

Cafone

No, you go to “Talk About the Eagles” on the official message boards. This blog/forum is for fans of higher intelligence and class.

Anders

seriously, can you just leave this blog? your act belong at philly.com not here

philliesfan136

Do my act really belongs at philly.com >

Anders

yes

nicolajNN

If all you come here to do is to insult the writer why even enter the site at all? I know Tommy wants to have room for all here, but you’re not even trying to contribute so why not just piss off.

Side-note: I have no idea what the b_____ is supposed to be

Insomniac

He’s not smart enough to realize there’s no profanity filter here.

philliesfan136

NO, that’s not it ….. D_____bag, i’m trying to allow the reader to FILL IN the blanks ….. if they want to.

TheRogerPodacter

Delicious

TheRogerPodacter

Dramastic

Gary

Doritos!

philliesfan136

I’m trying to CONTRIBUTE facts and REAL salary cap information ……not, generalizations, and assumptions. ” They won’t be able to extend Foles. ” ……. ” They don’t have cap space. ” …….. I don’t just swallow it, like too many readers do. Sorry, I do my research, and then I evaluate, and give you my opinion. I do this because I feel that the readers deserve insight, into the facts, that you are not being told. Like it or not, I’m just trying to inform, my fellow Eagles, die hard fans.

Stephen Stempo

no you’re not you’re a conspiracy theorist. A typical one ho has been given a voice an anonymity. Typical.

A Roy

I think it stands for but. As in, I’d have a girlfriend, but I’m an asshole.

TheRogerPodacter

ITS LIKE MAD LIBS!!!
Tommy, how does my taste? you kissing lackey?

i think philliesfan136 likes vegetables and is trying to push them on Tommy forcefully. thus, my mad libs answers are:

Tommy, how does my ASPARAGUS taste? you BROCCOLI kissing lackey?

: D

A Roy

You just made my day. Thanks for the laugh.

RIP illa

Wow dude. Just Wow. I see that you’re angry, but you just went full retard with that one. And everybody knows…you never go full retard.

When one of your main selling points about a guy is that he will get everyone lined up correctly, what does that really say?

They still need a lot more back there.

eagleyankfan

I’m wondering who last year didn’t know where to line up. I also wonder — why didn’t the coaches fix it if it was a problem.

Cafone

I suspect you are taking a comment meant as an appraisal of Jenkins’ character as a leader with football intelligence a little too literally.

Tom W

Fine w passing on Byrd and the ridiculous money he got. Wonder what our thinking was on w Tj ward seeing as Davis and chip both knew him well …. I’m really really hoping we didn’t avoid him bc we thought the price tag was too much and he ended up coming in real cheap for the broncos. I pray that isn’t what happened. If billy and chip didn’t feel an allpro safety who is exceptional in the box and above average to good in coverage, then I guess I will defer to them. Broncos got a great deal on him.

Neil

He’s only a great deal for the Broncos because he fits what they want out of the position. The eagles wanted a well rounded skillset before anything else, even if it meant they didn’t get a guy who was special at one thing like Ward or Byrd. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the eagles thought Jenkins was the more valuable player for them.

Tom W

Well rounded skill set but good at nothing — certainly not good enough in coverage to start at corner and his tackling is atrocious. This versatility thing this is great but at some point we need a single playmaker in the secondary

Neil

It would be great if we could get a playmaker on top of the minimum versatility.

However, what Jenkins lacks in specialness in any one facet is gong to be made up for by the fact that the offense can’t tell what he’s doing on any given play before the ball is snapped. That’s his value.

Tom W

Yep the saints sure did value that versatility that’s why they benched him and their fans are laughing at us on their boards like pats fans did last year when we signed Chung. But he is a leader and won’t rock the boat and help earl line up right but can’t tackle or force turnovers or cover well. Can do a lot but nothing well I get it. Bad thing is was that we already had an average secondary w Cary fletch and earl. We need a very good safety to help the corners press more and we needed a safety who can come up and make a tackle on third down and eight. I agree Jenkins can help cover a te in man and is a good dude, but I don’t see him greatly improving our secondary. We went from crap to average. Okay. Let just admit that and not try to sugarcoat or say Howie knocked it outta the park.

Neil

Jenkins wasn’t a fit in NO when they brought in Ryan. That defense calls for specialisation.

Sifter

And yet Kenny Vaccarro was Mr Versatile last year for them. He lined up all over the place: in the box, deep, and in the slot. Saints CAN use a versatile player, they just chose to draft and keep Vaccarro over Jenkins.

Neil

Vaccaro’s a really good player. I’m not sure how good he is playing deep zone, but he’s nasty in the box. I could be wrong, but I think him being a better fit for the Saints has everything to do with his skills as a SS rather than the real versatility the eagles want.

Maggie

I still remember some of the vitriol poured on Howie’s head last year about several players who turned out pretty well. Don’t bother with the names of those that didn’t. Every FO misses on some.

Sokhar20

Yeah, I’m sure the entire league just figured “TJ Ward is way too good, no way we could ever sign him,” and never bothered to inquire as to his price tag. That definitely happens. I’m curious what you think about the fact that the Browns paid more to Donte Whitner to replace Ward than Ward got on the open market.

Tom W

I think the browns are idiots that’s what and I think Tj ward wanted the hell outta that mess. And pkayers in free agency often have an inflated sense of worth to start and then start accepting cheaper deals as the potential suitors look other places.

ICDogg

What I take from this is that the Eagles are not planning on taking shortcuts to build their team the right way. The Eagles need a lot of guys to finish their rebuild. Don’t let last year’s record deceive you. This is not a team that is all that close to competing for a Super Bowl. Even if they had signed both Byrd *and* Ward. There is still quite a bit to do.

Tom W

That’s depressing view. But answer me this? Why would have signing rb Jenkins and Tj ward been short sighted? Both young and going to help you win big in 2 yrs if not 3 … How would that be short cited when we are beyond cap great position and can easily sign foles Kendricks and Boykin next yr and cox following yr w increased in cap each year and natural attrition of older players … Isn’t it a bit naive to think we couldn’t win this year or next?

CrackSammich

No.

Maggie

Short sighted.

philliesfan136

Yes ICDogg, that is a great philosophy, and I mostly agree, except for the FACT that IF they would have signed Jairus Byrd for 4 – 5 years, they would have fixed / solidified a position, that has been a issue for many years. Also at his age ( 27 yrs. old ) he would have been part of their rebuilding process over the next couple of years, and still be young enough to be a large part of their Super Bowl run.

Mitchell

It sure was a lot of money to spend. Does he fit out scheme? He has a history of plantar fasciitis, but of course YOU know more than Roseman and CO.

Insomniac

He played Madden until 4026 and knows how to be the best GM. He also has a lifetime subscription to Ms.Cleo and can see the future. Dude’s a joke.

Mitchell

For real. I told myself not to even respond but sometimes I have too even though I know better. :/

philliesfan136

To : for expressing motion or direction toward a point, person, place, or thing approached.
TOO : in addition, also, furthermore, moreover.
** sometimes I have ( too ) even though I know better.

A_T_G

Usually when I see people name calling I just have one quick look and move on to the next thread, but…

…sometimes I have two, even though I know better.

Tumtum

Gentleman. Gentleman. You know better than too have this sort of juvenile argument here. Two many threads like this is why I don’t bother reading EMB. Save 411 upon occasion. Too many good nuggets in the ole’ 411 to pass on for good.

Please tell us how Byrd, Ward or Verner would have fared in a defense that has little to none pass rush and no stud CB playing with them.

You bring up research but you state nothing of it. Revisionist #7218472432 from phillymag”

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Maggie

You STILL haven’t answered the original question.

philliesfan136

Do you know less than Roseman …..? Do I know more ? Does it matter ? We can not question the GREAT ” Howie Roseman ? Why , because he won GM of the year …..? Oh, i’m sorry, the GM of the year, was Ryan Grigson the Colts new GM. That’s the guy that the Eagles by passed to promote ( the accountant ) to the GM job.

Mitchell

Sure you can in a respectful way that doesn’t involve insulting everyone on this sight.

D3FB

Grigson had a very good first draft, and was incredibly Lucky (no pun intended, but totally intended) to get the best QB prospect in a decade. Last offseason he payed crazy money for Ricky Jean Francois, and even worse money for Erik Walden. He had a rough draft last year, traded a first round pick for Trent Richardson, who provide absolutely nothing. In the last two years I would say Howie’s done a better job.

philliesfan136

Besides Andrew ” Luck ” , Grigson turned over 3 / 4 of their roster. I want to see how Trent Richardson does next year, after having a training camp and pre season in their system. Then we’ll talk about that, again. Banner PUSHED Rosemen up the latter, and into the GM job, with almost no player personnel experience. Grigson had 7 years scouting experience prior to joining the Eagles, and he had 5 more years experience with the Eagles. Howie had 6 years doing accounting and assisting Banner with the salary cap. He next had two years ( TWO F______ing ) years, learning how to watch tape of players in college, and make up reports. Then he was promoted OVER Grigson. The ONLY reason Roseman got that GM job was because Banner wanted to have HIS man inside the ” FOOTBALL ” room, so that Banner could gain even more control of the franchise. This was borne out with his actions in Cleveland.

D3FB

You are the one who wants to argue in “facts”. Howie slightly lost draft 2012, Howie shit on Grigson in Draft 2013 and FA 2013. Richardson has to be a top 3-5 back for that trade to not be a complete joke.

Stephen Stempo

wether or not richardson does well next year that trade is still a joke. RB is the easiest position to draft or fill in the draft. unless he leads the league for years that is an abomidable trade. 1st round picks are gold.

Stephen Stempo

Dear lord comma much? Let’s see. “next year, after having ” No need for that comma. ” Then we’ll talk about that, again” Why the comma? Unless the again was meant to lead off the next sentence. “He next had two years ( TWO F______ing ) years, learning ” ok use either the parentheses or the comma not both. Your sentence basically reads “he had the next two years years, learning” which doesn’t make any sense. “FOOTBALL ” room, so that Banner ” No pause required here either.

So feel free to hammer people over their internet usage of too vs to. I would, however, suggest you have your house in order grammatically before you do.

Also I bet you believe in the illuminati too don’t you?

RIP illa

SMH and LMFAO’n.

“Dear lord comma much?”
Dear lord, comma much?
Hmm!!!

Neil

This is exactly why I don’t get into grammer.

RIP illa

For real. People make mistakes, typos, and/or just don’t know any better, all the time…work through it as the reader. But to try and be an A-hole while making similar mistakes as the one(s) you’re (general sense) trying to call out…Priceless!!!

Maggie

Bunch of upvotes! Illuminati. ROFL.

Maggie

Still didn’t answer the question. Are you an insider cognizant of every move and player in Free Agency or the Draft? Have you been building a board with scouts, coaches and Tom Gamble? Or a plan for 6 months or longer? That was the question. Had nothing to do with the Colts.

A Roy

I’m starting to think he’s Joe Banner.

BobSmith77

You don’t have to be so standoffish or insulting but I do wonder why the opinion has seemed to shift so greatly on Roseman over the past several months.

Last 2 drafts have been very good/good but his overall track record since GM is pretty mixed and even last year in FA it wasn’t the absolute killing some make it out to be.

Stephen Stempo

You know this is how we end up electing morons constantly to government office. See, the average person only sees action as a positive thing, so they see people who “do things” as pro active. It doesn’t matter t them if the things those people do or wrong or short sighted or stupid they just judge it based on perception. The truth is sometimes doing nothing is the right thing to do. That holds true in a lot of aspects of life.

It’s the old saying “Oh my god something has to be done, this is something, therefore this must be done!”

Not defending or supporting howie just pointing out that it’s not a race, and there’s far more that goes into it than people are really willing to think about.

BobSmith77

This is so many cliches here regarding elections and elected officials that I don’t know where to start but I won’t talk politics/religion here.

Are you trying to simply say that not doing much in FA this offseason is what Roseman should do this offseason? Just asking because it wasn’t evidently clear to me.

Stephen Stempo

Not necesarilly. Just saying that doing nothing is sometimes not a sign of stupidity or laziness. It’s just as calculated as doing something. Just because you don’t kill it” doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Also there aren’t many cliches about elected officials truth is generally they’re just not that bright.

BobSmith77

Compared to whom though? Overwhelming majority of people in Congress are lawyers and have a legal degree which I would guess would give them an IQ that is at least slightly above/above average on the whole.

ICDogg

the only reason to build with an expensive free agent is if you have a franchise quarterback and you need to sign a left tackle to keep him from getting killed.

And make no mistake, the Eagles are in the 2nd year of a rebuild, which, while it is going very well, not so well that it has advanced the timetable by a year.

Maggie

Byrd apparently wanted to be a Saint.

austinfan

Byrd would not have “solved” anything.

He’s a better playmaker than Jenkins and more of a pure FS, but he lacks range and has to cheat to make plays, so he needs CBs who can play on an island when he cheats away from them.
Byrd is not an in the box safety, he probably could cover in the slot, but he’d be in trouble against a TE running down the seam in man coverage.

Byrd lacks speed, and is unlikely to be better than average at FS by year 3 of his contract (when he turns 30), and loses a step. So you’d be paying $9M for Nate Allen in 2016.

Jenkins is not a playmaker, but he’s far more versatile than Byrd. He’s a better fit for what the Eagles want to do, and he’s two years younger than Byrd.

RobNE

Pats sports radio this am was slamming the Pats for not resigning Talib. This criticism to me is a lot more earned than any criticism against the Eagles. The Pats are consistently in the AFC champ game and have a limited window bc of Brady. I hope they don’t get Revis. Signing Revis would not be consistent with their MO all these years.

At least Denver is going all-in. I respect that they recognize their window with Manning is very small. Likely smaller than Brady’s.

Tumtum

Kinda hope it works out for Denver. I suppose you can liken them more to Tampa than the Eagles 2011.

RobNE

I do too mostly b/c it will mess with the “Payton can’t win a big game” theory at the same time using up some of Brady’s time left.

Tumtum

Yep. Screw Brady. Its been 10 years and the hate still burns strong.

Tumtum

To all those interested in Corey Graham: he is currently in D.C, which generally means he is about to get PAID.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this.

Mike Roman

The more Washington is willing to pay someone, the more I don’t want him. I’m off the Graham for depth bandwagon.

Sifter

All this argument about getting ‘playmakers’ in the secondary. I hate it. It’s such a fickle designation.
A) You can only ‘make a play’ if the QB throws it to you – playing Eli Manning helps! Or you can make plays with well designed blitzes that leave you unblocked against a clueless QB. In other words, for a DB to make a play, circumstances must favour you.
B) We are talking about a very small number of plays per season ie. a CB with 3 INTs compared to a CB with 7 INTs. CB #2 would be dubbed a ‘playmaker’ when he has merely made 4 more plays over the course of 1000+ plays in a season – it’s drop in the bucket stuff, combined with luck. That’s why we don’t see the same DBs leading the league in INTs every year…Only 1 DB has had 5+ INTs twice in the last 3 seasons (Sherman), everyone else has had a ‘playmaking’ season then their INTs total has dived dramatically the next season. Heard of Tim Jennings? Casey Hayward? Dashon Goldson? Kyle Arrington? (and plenty more) Those guys barely touched the stat sheet after their big ‘playmaking’ seasons in 2011 and 2012.
C) No where in the world can I find any stats that measure plays missed ie. dropped interceptions by DBs. Makes it very hard to measure true playmaking ability. eg. Jairus Byrd might have had 4 INTs last year, but he might have missed 3 more – we just don’t know from the boxscore. Very hard to dub these guys playmakers when only half the story is known.

Maggie

Love your logic.

A Roy

All the big names associated with the Washington club and they go and sign…Bruce Campbell…who (and I do mean who) has now been cut twice.

Tumtum

But he had a really good combine!

A Roy

Sounds like Mike Mamula.

Weapon Y

Think the Eagles would sign Brandon Weeden to compete with Barkley for backup job? Wouldn’t be excited about the move, but it might make sense considering that Shurmur drafted Weeden.

A Roy

I wonder if they’re waiting to see if Vick gets signed before signing another QB.

Weapon Y

Definitely a possibility. That’s what I would do.

Mike Roman

I would just like to say that if the Eagles don’t sign Revis, I AM DONE!
😉

BobSmith77

Don’t get the Eagles’ fans fascination with Revis at all given this current roster composition & what his price tag will be likely be. Just ‘Big Name/Shiny Toy’ syndrome.

Tom W

Malcolm Jenkins (PHI)

Contract Details

Three year contract worth $15.5 million.
Jenkins received $6 million in fully guaranteed salary. He received a
$5 million signing bonus and will earn an additional $2.5 million in
guaranteed salary if on the roster five days after the 2014 Super Bowl.
Base salaries of the contract are $1,000,000(2014), $4,000,000(2015),
and $5,000,000(2016).

Contract Analysis

Jenkins took a
slight gamble on himself here, as $6 million is the true amount that is
guaranteed. If he were to suffer a serious injury late in the 2014
season, it’s conceivable that Philadelphia would cut ties with him after
this season. But still just 26, if Jenkins fares well with the Eagles
he’ll have the rare opportunity to hit free agency for a second time

PFF Analysis

In
what was clearly a seller’s market, the Eagles paid a high price for
Jenkins who they believe is a better fit in their scheme. He will need
to be, considering his production in the Saints’ scheme over the past
two seasons. In 2012 he finished as the WORST safety in the league and
followed that up in 2013 grading out as just the 50th-best out of 68
safeties who played at least 50% of their team’s snaps. Jenkins biggest
flaw to date relates to his tackling, where he has missed 45 tackles in
the last three seasons—the most of any safety.

YEP — but he is a leader and is versatile and can help earl lineup dear lord. no wonder those saints fans are still wishing him good riddance. And worse yet, we overpaid for his average talents….

Neil

Pro Football Focus, the place where Christian Ponder is a better QB than Nick Foles.— Jesus Zoidberg (@JesusZoidberg) March 11, 2014

planetx1971

I’m feeling REALLY depressed. I was FULLY mentally prepared for a passive approach to FA this year by the Birds. But dammit, it feels more like they’ve been comatose! Been watching mid level guy after guy that I felt could really help us disappear ONE BY ONE (just saw Corey Graham get snapped up). Also just cannot shake the feeling that the supposed cash strapped Saints are laughing at us over them still landing Byrd while we, with loads of space, choose Jenkins. For the record, I was happy about Jenkins right up till N.O. signed Byrd. For the love of GOD, is there ANYONE left for us?! At this point, we BETTER KILL IT with our (small amount) of picks in the draft. #FEELING DEFLATED 🙁

ICDogg

Looks like Chris Clemons (the safety) is going to be a Jag. I think I set up an obvious retort here.

ICDogg

corrected: this is the DE not the safety

Tom W

Let’s see. First round bust as a corner. Switched to safety. Rated literally worst safety in the nfl in 2012. Then rated bottom 25 percent of all safeties in 2013. Those facts are undisputed. And we didn’t do shit besides that. No Revis to save the day hahahaha. And how was this a great week for the eagles. Heck though we still can carry over twenty million to resign guys we coulda resigned anyway w the ten million cap increase and by cutting Casey and cole next year. Better hope we trade down in the draft and get some picks or we gonna have a bunch of immediate holes next yr we coulda addressed this yr

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