tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post7991787391429087612..comments2014-12-12T05:29:46.343-05:00Comments on Debunking Christianity: Quote of the Day, by Mark Priestap, a Christian FatherDr. Hector Avaloshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10840869326406664177noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-33361801836909423082010-10-24T22:52:31.222-04:002010-10-24T22:52:31.222-04:00&quot;We don&#39;t love God simply because He dema...&quot;We don&#39;t love God simply because He demands respect or because [we] are scared of Him. We love God because He first loved us and showed us His Self-Sacrificing Love by becoming a Man and paying for our bad choices.&quot;<br /><br />Was that before or after he destroyed the world with a flood?GearHedEdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09288513835630145996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-6014770717355198012010-10-24T20:43:43.257-04:002010-10-24T20:43:43.257-04:00&quot;Fear can demand respect from people, but it ...&quot;Fear can demand respect from people, but it cannot demand love!&quot;<br /><br />We don&#39;t love God simply because He demands respect or because are scared of Him. We love God because He first loved us and showed us His Self-Sacrificing Love by becoming a Man and paying for our bad choices.<br /><br />Until you address the relationship of the Christian and how they see God&#39;s faithfulness in their lives, and God&#39;s Self-Sacrificing Love in offering Himself as an Atonement for our sins...<br /><br />your &quot;demand love&quot; concept will remain incomplete.Breckminhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-21380191593010785022010-10-24T20:37:21.472-04:002010-10-24T20:37:21.472-04:00Holy angels fear God. It is logical to fear a Hol...Holy angels fear God. It is logical to fear a Holy Creator Who gives consequences for actions.<br /><br />Teaching children the TRUTH about the Holy Infinite Creator and how choice is a danger to us is one of the wisest things you can do.<br /><br />This accusation of fear tactics FAILS to deal with the TRUTH itself and whether or not it is logical for creatures who are created in God&#39;s Image and capable of violating (this does not refer to somehow injurying God) God&#39;s Holiness with their bad choices (which taint themselves)to actually fear consequences.<br /><br />If a lion is in the rain forrest(JUNGLE) and I tell you about it... the fear is logical. There are consequences for not listening to the person who tells you the truth about danger.<br /><br />The same way we teach our kids to watch out for cars before they cross the street is the same way it is logical to teach our children about ALL consequences..<br /><br />including (especially) eternal consequences.Breckminhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16059206540177008895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-45229842082379361852010-10-23T20:18:25.212-04:002010-10-23T20:18:25.212-04:00Shane, you put your finger on it!
&quot;Fear can ...Shane, you put your finger on it!<br /><br />&quot;Fear can demand respect from people, but it cannot demand love!<br />The NT tells us that the greatest commandment is to love God in every way....&quot;<br /><br />Can you get an honest &quot;love&quot; out of anyone by commanding it?GearHedEdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09288513835630145996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-90215611334489396972010-10-23T02:02:54.831-04:002010-10-23T02:02:54.831-04:00Love warns of danger, pride threatens.
http://www...Love warns of danger, pride threatens.<br /><br />http://www.godtweak.com/?p=9danielghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12442435994163863699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-53446072974322924812010-10-22T13:19:22.270-04:002010-10-22T13:19:22.270-04:00Cole, before we talk about Hell, I want to be clea...Cole, before we talk about Hell, I want to be clear about words and their multiple meanings in the Bible. Can you answer my question in my last post directly?Paul Rinzlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06784526285150115571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-79705525570744621552010-10-21T16:25:07.415-04:002010-10-21T16:25:07.415-04:00Paul,
What I&#39;m saying is that it&#39;s unclea...Paul,<br /><br />What I&#39;m saying is that it&#39;s unclear based on these words definitions and usages in the Bible to come to a definitive conclusion about hell being a place of eternal concious suffering for humans. It may be but it may not.Colehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-47269891211649116812010-10-21T16:05:09.236-04:002010-10-21T16:05:09.236-04:00Sorry, Cole, I misunderstood. You&#39;re really s...Sorry, Cole, I misunderstood. You&#39;re really saying that the Hebrew and Greek words include &quot;forever&quot; and it synonyms as well as other meanings that do not mean &quot;forever.&quot;<br /><br />However, would you agree, then, that when the Hebrew or Greek word, when not meaning &quot;forever,&quot; but some other (closely related) meaning, is translated as &quot;forever,&quot; that translation is not merely a poor one, but is actually incorrect?Paul Rinzlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06784526285150115571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-89809197263926016032010-10-21T16:01:55.547-04:002010-10-21T16:01:55.547-04:00Cole, shouldn&#39;t your argument be (or, maybe it...Cole, shouldn&#39;t your argument be (or, maybe it really is) that the word &quot;forever&quot; isn&#39;t really the correct English word to translate the corresponding Hebrew or Greek word?<br /><br />Can you agree that if &quot;forever&quot; doesn&#39;t mean something like &quot;an infinite amount of time,&quot; it&#39;s actually the wrong word?Paul Rinzlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06784526285150115571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70547212788696842952010-10-21T15:48:37.693-04:002010-10-21T15:48:37.693-04:00Laugh all you want. But the fact remains that the ...Laugh all you want. But the fact remains that the words have different meanings based on their context. The lexicons were written by experts in the Hebrew and Greek languages. I wasn&#39;t writing it for John but Paul.Colehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-59036345687089810152010-10-21T15:16:08.374-04:002010-10-21T15:16:08.374-04:00Cole, can you take a little helpful advice?
John ...Cole, can you take a little helpful advice?<br /><br />John Loftus and many of the regulars here have Ph.D.s, and, and their knowledge of Hebrew and Greek makes your efforts at using lexicons and concordances look pathetic.<br /><br />I suggest you stop preaching and conducting Bible studies here on this site, because we are all laughing at you.Wesleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10395122483673080901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-57922255172652950592010-10-21T15:08:07.767-04:002010-10-21T15:08:07.767-04:00Cole is regular little gospel puppet, isn&#39;t he...Cole is regular little gospel puppet, isn&#39;t he?<br /><br />So, God is the perfect Father. If any human father modeled his parenting on that, we would put the guy in prison.<br /><br />Comparing my fatherhood to God&#39;s fatherhood is the primary reason why I ejected out of the Christian world after 46 years.Wesleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10395122483673080901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-26331088924206747142010-10-20T18:36:56.402-04:002010-10-20T18:36:56.402-04:00Hebrew:
`owlam
long duration, antiquity, futurit...Hebrew:<br /><br />`owlam<br /><br />long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world ancient time, long time (of past) (of future) for ever, always continuous existence, perpetual everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity forever and ever<br /><br />Greek:<br /><br />Aion<br /><br />for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity the worlds, period of time, ageColehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-23694344694520959132010-10-20T18:15:53.765-04:002010-10-20T18:15:53.765-04:00Rev. 20:10
and the Devil, who is leading them ast...Rev. 20:10<br /><br />and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages. <br /><br />Young&#39;s literal Translation Of The BibleColehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-76933988848187933122010-10-20T18:11:41.123-04:002010-10-20T18:11:41.123-04:00Paul,
The Hebrew and greek words don&#39;t always...Paul,<br /><br />The Hebrew and greek words don&#39;t always mean &quot;everlasting&quot; and &quot;forever&quot;<br /><br />Youngs literal translation of the Bible translates the words age-during in some contexts.Colehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-77276380865597511562010-10-20T18:04:22.656-04:002010-10-20T18:04:22.656-04:00&quot;Now, as these words are used in this limited...<i>&quot;Now, as these words are used in this limited sense in the Scriptures, why should it be supposed that they express endless duration when applied to punishment?&quot;</i><br /><br />Because this limited sense is exactly contradictory to every single dictionary definition (at least in my dictionary) of the word &quot;forever.&quot;<br /><br />What you&#39;re proposing is that we can make words mean the exact opposite of what they really mean. So Christianity really is from the Bizarro world. I knew it along!Paul Rinzlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06784526285150115571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19876976551854045352010-10-20T15:21:43.168-04:002010-10-20T15:21:43.168-04:00Paul,
There&#39;s places in the Bible where the t...Paul,<br /><br />There&#39;s places in the Bible where the term doesn&#39;t mean &quot;forever&quot; or &quot;everlasting.&quot; I already gave you one example that deals with God&#39;s judgement. Here&#39;s a summary of other examples in the Bible:<br /><br />We see the word everlasting applied to God&#39;s covenant with the Jews; to the priesthood of Aaron; to the statutes of Moses; to the time the Jews were to possess the land of Canaan; to the mountains and hills; and to the doors of the Jewish temple. We see the word forever applied to the duration of a man&#39;s earthly existence; to the time a child was to abide in the temple; to the continuance of Gehazi&#39;s leprosy; to the duration of the life of David; to the duration of a king&#39;s life; to the duration of the earth; to the time the Jews were to possess the land of Canaan; to the time they were to dwell in Jerusalem; to the time a servant was to abide with his master; to the time Jerusalem was to remain a city; to the duration of the Jewish temple; to the laws and ordinances of Moses; to the time David was to be king over Israel; to the throne of Solomon; to the stones that were set up at Jordan; to the time the righteous were to inhabit the earth; and to the time Jonah was in the fish&#39;s belly. We find the phrase forever and ever applied to the hosts of heaven, or the sun, moon, and stars; to a writing contained in a book; to the smoke that went up from the burning land of Idumea; and to the time the Jews were to dwell in Judea. We find the word never applied to the time the fire was to burn on the Jewish altar; to the time the sword was to remain in the house of David; to God&#39;s covenant with the Jews; to the time the Jews should not experience shame; to the time the house of David was to reign over Israel; to the time the Jews were not to open their mouths because of their shame; to the time those who fell by death should remain in their fallen state; and to the time judgment was not executed.<br /><br /> <br /><br />But the law covenant is abolished; the priesthood of Aaron and his sons has ceased; the ordinances, and laws, and statutes of Moses are abrogated; the Jews have long since been dispossessed of the land of Canaan, have been driven from Judea, and God has brought upon them a reproach and a shame; the man to the duration of whose life the word forever was applied is dead; David is dead, and has ceased to reign over Israel; the throne of Solomon no longer exists; the Jewish temple is demolished, and Jerusalem has been overthrown, so that there is not left &quot;one stone upon another;&quot; the servants of the Jews have been freed from their masters; Gehazi is dead, and no one believes he carried his leprosy with him into the future world; the stones that were set up at Jordan have been removed, and the smoke that went up from the burning land of Idumea has ceased to ascend; the righteous do not inherit the earth endlessly, and no one believes that the mountains and hills, as such, are indestructible; the fire that burnt on the Jewish altar has long since ceased to burn; judgment has been executed; and no Christian believes that those who fall by death will never be awakened from their slumbers. Now, as these words are used in this limited sense in the Scriptures, why should it be supposed that they express endless duration when applied to punishment?Colehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-19752297014335177312010-10-20T15:19:52.848-04:002010-10-20T15:19:52.848-04:00Using fear as a tool to brainwash children is evil...Using fear as a tool to brainwash children is evil. And Cole, if you remove the God crap from your post I have that in my life now.Tim Manleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09627926215880356556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-30125335927050021342010-10-20T12:22:35.966-04:002010-10-20T12:22:35.966-04:00&quot;Gospel fear&quot; !? Boy, these Protestants ...&quot;<i>Gospel fear</i>&quot; !? Boy, these Protestants are retarded! Who needs &quot;Gospel fear&quot; when you can have <a href="http://orthodox-apologetics.blogspot.com/2010/10/orthodox-christianity-making-terrorist.html" rel="nofollow">real terror</a> instead!?Lvkahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09663692507774640889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-26964638238120532652010-10-20T12:14:37.210-04:002010-10-20T12:14:37.210-04:00If I believed in hell, I would NEVER have kids. Ho...If I believed in hell, I would NEVER have kids. How could you bring them into a universe like that? Even if I was 99.99% sure they would wind up in heaven, I still wouldn&#39;t do it. It would be ignorant, cruel and very selfish.Chrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11675274701818800632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-91462227046368131742010-10-20T08:07:45.302-04:002010-10-20T08:07:45.302-04:00Fear can demand respect from people, but it cannot...Fear can demand respect from people, but it cannot demand love!<br /> The NT tells us that the greatest commandment is to love God in every way....but instilling fear of hell into children is not going to accomplish what christians hope it will.<br /> As a matter of fact, it was the concept of hell which led to my dispising the gospel!shanehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07118637281630775156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-25240940993825430992010-10-20T06:34:00.584-04:002010-10-20T06:34:00.584-04:00Maybe not entirely fairly, but the quote reminds m...Maybe not entirely fairly, but the quote reminds me of this song:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYsi5Y-xOQscatteredhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12875791874054416450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-11067128383780235052010-10-19T23:19:40.430-04:002010-10-19T23:19:40.430-04:00Holy sumpin&#39;, Cole:
I should have added that ...Holy sumpin&#39;, Cole:<br /><br /><i>I should have added that the word translated &quot;forever&quot; doesn&#39;t always mean literally forever when we are dealing with God&#39;s judgement. </i><br /><br />If you can make the word &quot;forever&quot; not mean &quot;forever,&quot; what word in the Bible CANT you make mean whatever you want it to, and on what basis?Paul Rinzlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06784526285150115571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-70669895829849215852010-10-19T23:06:05.077-04:002010-10-19T23:06:05.077-04:00The point of highlighting this book and review of ...The point of highlighting this book and review of it, is that without question the Christian theology considers it a good idea to use fear in order to convince children to follow God. This is nothing like warning children about the real life dangers of snakes or spiders, but is about physchological manipulation of a child in order to get them to accept as fact the middle eastern fairy tales the parents and Church are pushing.<br />Fear and guilt were always the recruitment tools of Christianity, but I couldn&#39;t believe that in the 21st century they are actually so proud of this, as to confirm it in writing.Shawnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11706399970776390486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21219785.post-89828408742583196822010-10-19T21:41:24.399-04:002010-10-19T21:41:24.399-04:00Matt,
Here&#39;s a little snippet of what I think...Matt,<br /><br />Here&#39;s a little snippet of what I think the new heavens and earth will be like.<br /><br />1. We will have new beautiful resurrected bodies like the one Christ has. We wont get sick, grow old or die. We will be free from all pain and suffering. We will demonstrate the qualities of youthfulness that Jesus valued in children - curiosity, gratefulness, a longing to learn and explore, an eagerness to hear stories and gather close to loved ones.<br /><br />2. There will be a new universe of stars and planets.<br /><br />3. Human beings will govern the angels.<br /><br />4. Animals will peacefully live on earth with humans in harmony praising God.<br /><br />5. We will stand on the New Earth and see it, feel it, smell it, hear it&#39;s sounds and taste it&#39;s fruits. We&#39;ll continually be discovering, to our delight, what we&#39;ve been missing all our lives. God will forever give us more of Himself and His creation to discover.<br /><br />6. There will be beauty and fulfilment. We will see God as He truely is - an endless reservoir of fascination. Everything will be enjoyable, good, refreshing, fascinating and interesting.<br /><br />7. We will all wear cloths and dress normally.<br /><br />8. We will never know everything like God. Because we are finite and unique we will have different tastes in music and food along with a thousand other things. Maybe will even have friendly debates about things we don&#39;t yet understand.<br /><br />9. Everything that we will want will be good. We will delight in God and abide in Him.<br /><br />10. There will be banquets, feasts, singing, dancing, and laughing.<br /><br />11. We will play and have fun.<br /><br />12. We will retain our genders.<br /><br />13. We will have a home.<br /><br />That&#39;s all for now.Colehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18342042981695750691noreply@blogger.com