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Stuff white men say to black women

Here are some racist things that commenter Black&German and her friends have heard white men say to them as black women:

The best thing about black women is their asses. Is it true you like anal?

I prefer black women because white women are such prudes.

I like black women. Just not the ghetto ones.

Hey, you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry. (Or whatever famous black woman you can think of. They all look alike, right?)

You know you want it! Everybody knows black women can’t get enough.

What do you mean you don’t want to date me? You should be happy I even asked!

How about we get to know each other a little better? You know, go to my place. No? What if I pay you?

I’ve always wanted to know what it’s like to do it with a black girl.

My friend over there just came back from [some overseas country] and he’s looking for some female company. You’re very pretty. How much?

I don’t usually like black women but you’re different. You’ve got class.

I heard your boyfriend is white. So, you like white dick? Want some of mine?

[If they refuse to go out with you, slam them against the wall and scream in their face.] You think you’re too good for me?

So, if black men have such big dicks doesn’t that mean black women… ?

Don’t go acting all uppity.

Oh, God. My dad would totally kill me if he knew I was talking to you.

You know, if I knocked you up our babies would look white.

Her remarks:

The last one (about babies) was actually after dating him for a few weeks, sitting in a nice restaurant. I nearly choked to death on my pasta. What the hell was he thinking? I didn’t stay to find out.

I’d heard that some white men think that black women are whores but I thought that just meant “easy”. I didn’t know that they assumed we were actually prostitutes. And that the “nice” looking ones are just expensive prostitutes. The first time I was propositioned I just stared like a deer in the headlights. I thought it was a bad joke, or something.

I once had a drunk guy in a bar stick ten dollars in my pants and ask me to dance for him. Umm… Sure, honey. Just let me find that pole I always carry with me…

I do have to say that the guy who slammed me against the wall was hyped up on something. Crystal, probably. That stuff makes people crazy. And horny. Baaaaaad combination.

Although I must admit I’ve had black men make some similarly – ahem – inappropriate comments, as well.

The most amazing thing is where some of these comments were made. Like in the hallway outside of a database management seminar or at the company Christmas party. Some men have no shame.

462 Responses

Wow, I’ve never heard of such an extreme. The only comment that I’ve had is 4 and 10. But fortunately, for the most part, men treat me with respect.

It’s ashamed how some men behave. Yes, they’re racist, but also they are testing the waters. To see how far they could go and the have a preconceived notion that black women are looser in their standards.

On second thought, there was once a White guy at the gas station tell me “It’s perfect” and I looked at him, and he said “You have a perfect butt.” I didn’t know how to respond. So, I just continued to pump the gas.” He didn’t take his comment any further.

I have never been propositioned in this manner..
I have been told i have a “great ass” , but i cannot fathom being offered money ??? or being slammed up against a wall(by some random, unknown man)..
Not a single one of my friends has EVER been accosted in the manner presented here.
I guess the white men we are running into are more sophisticated/ subtle.
Where is she meeting these types of men? And how is she carrying herself that gives a man the nerve to approach her like this?

I never said that all of the comments were directed towards myself or that all of the men were strangers (obviously, if they knew my boyfriend). Some of the comments were in high school, college, work functions, out on dates, the mall, etc.

“And how is she carrying herself that gives a man the nerve to approach her like this?”

Are you some type of misogynist? You can’t be serious. Regardless of how I look or “carry myself” I hardly think ANY woman deserves to be spoken to in such a manner.

I’m not sure either. I think every once in a blue moon, a woman may receive comments such as the one you mentioned. One asked me if I had implants before. I just gave him “that look” and he slithered away. I count on one finger times that’s happpended.

But these are pretty extreme. And I don’t want to say the wrong thing here because I’m afraid I may offend someone. I agree, though, no woman deserves to be treated the way.

O.K., wildflower you said what I wanted to say. SOME of it may be how a woman carry’s herself (which is probably NOT the case with this commenter). I see this all of the time. But, that is not a reason for men to be so disrespectful. The blame should ultimately fall on the man.

The main point of this post is that CERTAIN WM feel that BW deserve to have these types of RACIST, DISRESPECTFUL, ANTI-BW comments made to them. OBVIOUSLY, the WM who make these DISGUSTING comments to BW are to BLAME for thier INAPPROPRIATE/UNACCEPTABLE behavior.

It’s not a BW’s fault (regardless of how she “carries herself”) that some random WM CHOOSES to DEMEAN/DISRESPECT her (solely because she’s a BW) by directing these types of DEGRADING comments towards her.

“I heard your boyfriend is white. So…”
I actually got that one in high school after I started dating my boyfriend. A guy I’d turned down before got pissed off. He wasn’t actually saying it as “an offer” but rather to insult/intimidate me, I think.

“One asked me if I had implants before.”
I actually regularly have WOMEN ask me that; strangers. I have a 32G cup which is a very rare size to occur naturally.

“How men approach you does have a lot to do with how you carry yourself.”

It also has something to do with how you look, unfortunately.

I will say — full disclosure — that I (and my equally shapely sister) am affected disproportionally by this kind of thing because of my figure (yes, Abogond, I am “thick”). I have to buy size 12 clothes and then have them tailored drastically. Being an engineer and wearing Anne Taylor and flats is no protection. The only time I got a break from this “negative attention” was when I was heavily pregnant.

At the second firm I worked for I was actually hired by a woman but a colleague I later befriended admitted that when I showed up for work the first day some of the guys reacted with snickers and “George has good taste.” They shut up when I audited their butts but it took a while to get the rumors to die down. George (the CFO I worked for indirectly) was married to a dark Brazilian woman so there were plenty of jokes about “Once you go black…”. He wasn’t even in the country when I was hired!

So perhaps I get bothered more by racist scuzzballs for the simple reason that I get hit on by so many scuzzballs that there are bound to be the racist ones in there somewhere.

I also developed a “woman’s figure” really early so I’ve been dealing with this for a long time even though I’m only 28. I had grown men approaching me in junior high. I’m afraid to go to public pools or to the beach because men follow me around and harass me (luckily, I’ve always lived in houses with private pools). My husband didn’t understand my behaviour until he had a couple of run-ins with the jerks himself.

I went through a baggy/sloppy clothes phase but that didn’t help any. My husband jokes that it was like putting Kim Kardashian in a burlap sack. I wasn’t fooling anyone, I just looked raggedy and messy. I’ve had women whisper about me when I walk by and say I look slutty when I was wearing a turtleneck and some jeans. I’m hardly “whorish”, for those who are wondering.

But I’ve explained myself enough. I don’t deserve that kind of reaction and it sickens me that there are women who would wish to blame me for it. So much for the feminist movement.

I agree with Black and German. Just because some women haven’t experienced this disgusting behavior, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. This is the same pathetic argument that racist whites use to discount the experiences that Blacks experience every day as we are either delusional, we did something to encourage racist or unfair behavior, or it’s because of our attitude and always crying wolf.

This is also the same tactic that men and women use to silence women when they attempt to report rape or assault. “It must be something you were wearing.” “How you acted to encourage that kind of attention.” Black women in the Black community are harassed, raped and murdered all the time for being nothing more than women which explains why Black women are least likely to report being assaulted or raped. Black women and men are least likely to support or empathize with the victim as can be seen with the likes of R Kelly, et al, in which a lot of women took great pleasure in tearing down a mere child.

What you are wearing, how your body is shaped, how you walk—is immaterial—no one should invade your space by assuming or condescending to speak to you any old way because they are freakish, inexperienced, sexual fetishers. Working among women who experience assault, I am not surprised that some women would automatically discount Black and German’s experience as something that she instigated.

i haven’t had too many bad experiences with white males. In middle school this little white boy came up to my friends and I and said “where’s kneisha…where’s kneisha?” Like trying to make us sound ghetto or something, none of us were named kneisha, so my friend goes… “over there with shanique and shanaynay…over there with shanique and shanaynay.” It was great lol…he slithered away like a fool. Other than that, I have had multiple white men touch my hair, not ask, just touch my hair, pat it, oh one white guy “acidentally,” spanked my butt once. But other than that…

I’ve had women whisper about me when I walk by and say I look slutty when I was wearing a turtleneck and some jeans.”

i can relate, i’m thick too and sometimes you can be wearing a jean skirt only a half inch above the knee and black t-shirt and people will interpret that as you being “loose,” simply because the clothes are going to fit more snuggly in certain areas than others if you have a curvy build naturally…

Thanks B&G, that’s true. Again, I’m not blaming B&G specifically. She seems very intelligent and I believe she carries herself with class.

However, if you’re honest, a lot of how a man approaches a woman is how she carries herself. BUT, I agree, they still don’t have any right to be that rude and vulgar. And as I’ve said several of times before,he is to blame.

Also, I think even though a man doesn’t approach you, he may still be thinking of sex. Just because he doesn’t approach you like that, doesn’t necessarily mean that he isn’t attracted. I don’t think a specific body type warrants attraction. Just maybe the way a guy approaches, unfortunately.

“i think its appropriate doesn’t he touch her hair and ask if its a weave in one scene?”
Well, yes. But they’re sleeping together by then.

“Also, I think even though a man doesn’t approach you, he may still be thinking of sex.”
Of course. But that wasn’t my point.

“i cannot fathom being offered money ???”

Am I just jaded or are you being naive about prostitution? Obviously, if men are approaching women in clubs to ask them for it, SOMEONE has been agreeing to go with them. Otherwise it would be a waste of their time.
I knew girls (white and black) in school (nice, middle-class area) who would give men and boys at school oral sex in exchange for money. They would openly admit to at and say that it was no big deal.
One of the other (white) girls on the drill team with me became a stripper and eventually a prostitute after graduating. She used it to pay for college.
It’s not that uncommon anymore; the sexual mores have changed.

I agree with Islandgirl, perhaps ladies like Lynette and herself don’t get approached so disrespectfully because of their “vibe”. Both are obviously really educated and classy. Not to say that the likes of B&G is not, but I think the “vibe” you give off signals how and who is comfortable voicing such opinions.

Really? I thought that those were rather “classic”.
I was initially shocked about #9 myself until I found out some of my friends had been approached in a similar fashion before (#7). I was 18 at the time.

It wasn’t that they thought we were street-walkers, but rather that we’d engage in casual prostitution. It’s quite common among teenages, you know. I just assumed that obviously being “from nice families” would protect us from that sort of thing but I guess being BW overrode that.

As far as anal sex goes, to each his own. The insulting thing is the idea that there’s something inherent to BW (and evidenced by their behinds) that makes them more inclined to engage in it; something animalistic and base. I think that that’s a widespread sentiment. As opposed to white sexual purity.

It just comes as a shock…actually, why should I be surprised by this. With my being Asian, I only know too well what many WM have said to me regarding my Asian parts being slanted and tight. And wanting to test things out with me. Grr. Also, I’ve had idiots tell me, “Me rove you rong time” or “Me so horny” So lame.

Ah… the slanted coochy. That’s a classic. Asian women are tight and submissive and BW are loose (another good reason why it’s best to stick to anal with us) and slutty. Maybe you should get this shirt, to make things clear. LOL!

My old boss was actually a young Indonesian woman from California (born an American citizen). She is married to a WM and he was asked on numerous occasions where he’d “gotten her”. One WM (drunk as a skunk at a company party) asked if he’d imported her and how much she cost. Her husband is a professor at an Ivy League college. She’s a biologist with a degree from Berkley.
She had to quit a job 2 years ago because her WM boss came onto her during a company retreat. He used excuse #11 for that. After all, her husband is white so she must like that.

It’s absolutely creepy how some, though I think it’s a lot, WMs take the liberty to say whatever they like and think it’s okay. It’s not okay. It will NEVER be okay. Those guys who’ve watched Asian porn are misguided into thinking we’re these demure creatures and turn into wanton harlots at the drop of a hat. Sorry, but we’re not some hole for your enjoyment. I apologize for ranting. I just loathe that any women of color has to deal with this crap.

No Black and German you are not in the twilight zone—sexual racial harassment is real and the fact that you have to justify whether you are giving off some kind of vibe or behaving in any way that is inappropriate is telling. And no it is definitely not about being classy or carrying yourself a certain way. Any woman can be a victim of harassment. The stats back that up.

As Black and German has implied, she did not give them any indication that she would accept their disgusting sexual propositions, therefore just because two female posters were not subject to degrading come-ons and is no way representative of most women (being as women are less likely to report harassment anyway because it it’s been normalized for women to just deal with), doesn’t mean that other women, who carry themselves equally well was somehow asking to be harassed. As Leigh states, Asian women are often harassed by men based on the sexual stereotypes and it not about some elusive “vibe” that compels men to talk about slanted c**hies to a strange Asian woman. Did Annie Le from Yale deserve to die. What vibe did she give off to that sicko Raymond Clarke. Native American women are most likely to be interracially raped and assaulted by white men followed by Asian women. Were they asking for it due to their “ vibe”? How about the other sicko George Sodini? He killed women who were at a gym because he was a sexually frustrated loser. What did these women do to encourage his psychopathic behavior.

I have good friends who live in New York City. One is a very high powered Lawyer who is Latina, the other a fashion assistant who is black. Both women dress in formal business attire, yet they are cat called and propositioned by complete strangers on the street. What vibe did they give off, other than looking every bit the professional women minding their own business. As a lot of women know, you don’t have to do anything exceptional and people still believe they have the right to invade your space and that you should just deal with it.

This is nothing more than sexual harassment at its’ basest and has a lot more to do with power than a casual ‘come on’. Couple this with overtones or blatant racism, this makes for an incidiary situation. Men who engage in this type of behaviour do so to exert their percieved power over females as this type of behaviour is designed to put them in their proverbial place. There isn’t any type of women who garner this kind of attention. If you haven’t experienced this you’re either lucky or you weren’t aware of it at the time. Maybe you forgot? Most women have experienced this type of behaviour whether from a downright ignoramus or subtley. Sexual harassment is harassment in that is is designed to denigrate the recipient. That in some instances it may be based on racist sterotypes makes it doubly horrendous.

“This is nothing more than sexual harassment at its’ basest and has a lot more to do with power than a casual ‘come on’.”

Absolutely! Some of the worst comments I have gotten were from guys that I HAD TURNED DOWN. In other words, this was their pathetic way of getting even: “What, you don’t want me? Well, you’re just a worthless whore anyway.”

I will NEVER FORGET in my junior year AP History course the teacher left the room for a minute and this football player gets up from his desk, leans over to me and says (loudly so everyone can hear), “I heard you’re dating **** now. What’s he have that I don’t have?” I just sat there stunned with everybody staring at me and then I collected myself to answer, “Well, for starters… me.” Everybody laughed but his reply was just the creative, “Slut.”
How did we get to the point that guys can just get up in the middle of a class and act like that? Was I asking for it? I was writing a freaking essay, not pole dancing in front of the class. But the most disturbing question (looking back with more mature eyes): Why in the world didn’t I complain about him? Would anyone have cared if I had?

I think that some people don’t seem to have noticed how pornographic and sexist our society has become (how could you not notice!). Of course the comments are sexually explicit and vulgar. A lot of people speak that way now! Just go to a UT party on a Friday night and wait for your ears to burn.

I’ve known relationships that break up because the guys get so addicted to porn that they can’t get it up for a real woman anymore. Or military spouses who sleep around as soon as their mates are deployed.

“Well, I am not one to discount Ng’s experience and her perception. But in my honest opinion, when someone uses your ethnic background as a means to put you down, that is racism. I don’t understand why the prevalence of experiencing both at the same time doesn’t register with people.

With most women of color, it is almost by default that we expect to be on the receiving end of sexist behavior at some point. A lot of times, this is also intertwined with racism as another element.

In my work environment, an Asian-American female coworker of mine is routinely called “docile” by my male colleagues. Conversely, those same men say I am the “opposite”. This seems to apply to whatever Asian woman they meet and whichever black women they meet (as they proceed to tear apart her physical appearance behind her back). The one time an Asian woman did not fit into their neat little box, they called her “sheisty” (or conniving bitch).

The fact that certain men feel like they can impose whatever description they want onto a woman without fearing social repercussions… that is what i would call sexism.

The fact that certain men’s descriptions are dependent on the ethnicity of the individual… that would be racism.

I agree, BG. It makes a lot of sense. When I was a freshman in hs, I had one fellow ask me out on a date thinking I would say yes. I definitely felt he watched too much Karate Kid Part II. And when I declined, he had to sink completely low as to call me a nasty racial name…a f**king c**** c***. It rhymes with link and bunt. Hmph. Sour grapes, I say.

Pornography is a multi-billion dollar industy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in the trillions! Whoever thinks it is harmless think again. The effect has been deliterious on society as a whole. Even children are being sexualized! Woe unto the teenage girl who doesn’t put out for example. If she doesn’t she’s weird in the eyes of many of her peers. Sexual harassment starts early. Many of these teenage boys who practice this continue to do so when they become adults. I think this is a backlash againgst feminism a power play if you will. This backlash by extension has a trickl down effect that currently permeates society as a whole. In regards to some white men who behave this way it may also have racial overtones as they are the ones with the most to lose in the power game.

On a personal note, I have been accosted in a similiar manner to one of your examples. When turning some man down very often they would call me names. Nevermind that I had never clapped eyes on them nor was it in a social setting . I was just walking down the street or was in a store etc. My retort? “That doesn’t say much for you if you’de stoop to coming on to someone you feel is a, insert insult. You must be desperate and a loser”. However my favorite come back is “Don’t call me what your mother is” It’s short and to the point.

I remember being phyysically assaulted when I was 16 or so. Some gearbox grabbed my behind when I was walking down the street. A I am an avid reader(even then), I usually carried a couple of books in my purse. I hauled off and clobbered the goof and sent him flying! Ladies don’t try this, I was lucky he didn’t retaliate! he was probably too stunned! Anyhow I think many women could pen a paper or even a book on their experiences. I have always been ‘mouthy’ when confronted with this behaviour but that’s me. Many women suffer in silence or try to rationalize this behaviour as a one off experiences, some are even flattered by this attention. This indeed a very complex and vexatious problem.

“In my work environment, an Asian-American female coworker of mine is routinely called “docile” by my male colleagues. Conversely, those same men say I am the “opposite”. This seems to apply to whatever Asian woman they meet and whichever black women they meet (as they proceed to tear apart her physical appearance behind her back). The one time an Asian woman did not fit into their neat little box, they called her “sheisty” (or conniving bitch).”

when are people gonnna realize that women are women, my roomate dated a white guy and she was asian the guy was an asshole i witnessed countless conversations where hse proceeded to curse him out (rightfully so, the guy was insane) but women are women if you’re disrespectful most likely you’re going to get disrespect back…

I feel so sorry for you BG and leigh for being harrassed sexually and racially. I have never been treated that way on numerous occasions. However, I do recall a time in my psychology class my pen in between this white dude’s legs. When I tried to reach it (with out trying to go between his legs), he pushes my head down between his legs and made groaning noises. When I retaliated and told him to stop he said he was sorry. However, he knew I was done with him regardless of his apology.

Mayhue, I realize that this is a very passionate topic for you, but I must address something. You asked if Annie Le deserved that. I assure you that NO ONE on this post thinks that. That was horrible and my thoughts and prayers go out to her. By using her as an example, you are overstating this for dramatic purposes. Was this crime even sexually motivated? Also, I say that because no one is saying that women deserve that, rape or even harrassment, I’m sure no commenter believes that. I’ve said that over and over again. But in all of your passion, I don’t think you are willing to accept that. So let me say it again – NO WOMAN deserves any sort of violence or harrassment based on vibes, body type or state of dress.

Since I haven’t really experienced that, I am trying to understand this behavior, where it stems and how it’s manifested. I will share that you should not underestimate the notion of “vibes”. Men are very intutive about that. But we all send out different types of vibes. Some men give off sleazy vibes, some sweet just as some women may give a snooty vibe while others are more open. In most instances, people pick up on those vibes and treat us accordingly, whether they’re correct or not. But again, I’ll say, that NOT all women who are harassed give off these vibes, obviously. And I acknowledged that about B & G earlier. So, I think I’ll leave this topic alone as it seems to be such sensitive issue.

The only reason White men feel like they can say whatever disrespectful comment they want to black women is because of all the negetive things they hear about us from black men period. And its a shame.

I know some Black women don’t want the myth of All White men are perfect gentlemens to be broken. So expect the various comebacks:

1. You are attracting the losers.
2. That has never happened to me.
3. Its because of Black men that White men act this way. Meaning that White men can’t think for themselves.
4. You are really a Black men pretending to be a Black woman.
5. Black men do it too.
6. I like the attention. I think it’s cute.

“What vibe did they give off, other than looking every bit the professional women minding their own business.”

As a computer science major and later a software engineer (my specialty is diesel motor development) I was often the only woman and the only non-white person around. The higher up the corporate ladder I climbed the more extreme it got. That’s why I found the racialicious excerpt so interesting.

I went to an sensoric conference once and, out of over 40 attendees, I was the ONLY WOMAN. I swear, some of the guys there acted like I was brought there for entertainment.

Once my colleagues and I were taking a client out for dinner at a nice Japanese restaurant but I was running late. They’d already eaten when I showed up and the client looked at me, smiled and said, “Aaaah! I see you guys have already ordered dessert.” Oh, yeah. That is so funny I forgot to laugh. Here I am, the internal auditor, hired to protect HIS company’s interests and he treats me like a piece of meat.

I am annoyed at the presumptions posted on this thread when I see real life examples (being as I have worked with women who have been harassed and abused) of it always being how the woman’ carries herself as to why a man can’t control his own behavior. And I am not overstating anything. Raymond Clarke has a history of behavior against women and there has already been speculation that it was more than the issue with mice, therefore my “being dramatic” or using hyperbole does not detract from my argument which makes it an apt comparison and completely relevant to the discussion.

In addition, you have repeated twice up thread about the way a woman carries herself may be a contributing factor as to why men may respond negatively and I have used those examples to prove that it does not matter what you do–some men will take liberty because they think they can and usually they do get away with it. Again there is too many anecdotes and stats to back it up and it doesn’t take trying to understand anything if you haven’t directly experienced it, which means, having a measure of empathy without being quick to dismiss claims that you find personally outrageous. You may not live in a big city or you completely protected from those elements, that doesn’t make someone else’s experiences any less unbelievable. Obviously we don’t agree so there is nothing more to discuss on this subject.
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Leigh and Black and German thanks for the compliments. Also, Racialicous editors must be intuitive with this blog, because they just did a great Op Ed piece on street harassment (which ties in with your particular comments) with this article:

The only thing I got from my interaction with you was to identify you as one of the men who somehow think that because I am a young Black woman they have a right to have access to me, to refer to me in an intimate way, to have completely unsolicited and unwanted conversations with me, even to touch me inappropriately in the street. I don’t know you and you don’t know me. But I hope that this letter helps you know me a little and the next time you see me or anyone else who needs your help, you’ll just do your job, help them, and send them on their way with a, “Have a nice day.”

Some of the comments sections fit in directly with your experiences such as these:

wendi muse wrote:
i can really identify with this. it’s sad, but it’s the way i have to be as well to get from point a to point b. and re: comment #7: headphones, even those the size of earmuffs, don’t make any difference. people still make rape-y comments that make you want to either curl into a ball and cry or punch someone in the face. the sad reality is that once you have suffered from blocks and blocks of harassment, the nice guy at the end who simply says “hello” gets the screwface from me. it’s like even then, something simple and nice can be misconstrued as just another comment that should be added to the huge pile of sexist crap you put up with blocks before.
Posted 23 Sep 2009 at 10:19 am

Afrolatina wrote:
As a queer woman of color who has, literally, been pawed at in public by white men and men of color alike I am happy to read this post. It brings up some pain but I am glad that this constant attack is being brought to light. I happen to work in an industry where there is constant access and commentary on my hair and my body from men, women, and even children of all walks of life. There are simply some days when I want to dance at a party or work at a store without being “complimented.”

A. wrote:
Shawn – white men DO catcall at women. They generally catcall at White women and Asian women.

I’ve had to deal with this shit. Too many times. I generally just tell the guy that he’s being quite rude and I would prefer that he didn’t do that. I either get an apology or told “Damn, why y’all sistas got so much attitude?!” What’s so funny is that if they did this to white women, they would likely inform someone of it, and someone would be losing their job.

I don’t need to put up with this sort of shit from black men. I really don’t. I have enough sexist and racist shit to deal with from white men – like I need to put up with brothas not keeping their hormones under control.

I have received blatant disrespect from WM over the years so I cannot say I am surprised at the quotes.

I have been mistaken for a prostitute, and no, I was not dressed as a slut. I have been told: “I like BW, just not the ghetto ones”; as if that were a compliment. “You know you want it” – another typical line especially when I show un-attraction back. It just goes on…

The worst part is just being a quota for sex. I will meet this guy and he will seem cool until he jumps on me as soon as we get alone. I have to wonder if I am the only person who gets such frank advances for sex by white men. They are from guys I barely even got acquainted with. The majority of white guys who show “interest” in me only turn out to be on a mission for sex. They never want anything more. I know guys love sex but 100% of WM approaching me only want that, not a date or anything. I am not looking for a husband but at least show me you have more interest in me other than being a prop for you to stick your d*** in. Another thing, these guys never want to take me out somewhere publically. It always ends up a quick bite and back to their place. So much for dinner and a movie…

While I have been open to dating interracially in the past, I have been let down so much that I now have a bias. Sadly, due to my own personal issues and experiences, I have this negative impression on any WM who shows a hint of attraction to me. I was involved briefly with a WM who showed me such blatant disrespect that I had to wonder if I were on some kind of episode of Punk’d.

In subtle ways, he treated me with inferiority. I would say he was both misogynist and racist. He just could not respect me even with the attributes I hold. I was five years younger than him but yet had achieved a higher level of education but it was always like I was a blue collar worker trying to measure up to some wealthy preppy person who “summers”. For fact, he was not in a class above me, he was the same. He always wondered how I afforded such things such as a car and nice clothes and belongings. As if a 21 year old BW cannot own a car and afford the luxury of shopping? It didn’t help that I had just moved and was having trouble securing a new job. To him it just seemed like I never had a job or any prior income. I mentioned grad school to him and he was trying to say I couldn’t do that (at the time I held my BS, currently I am in grad school). I always felt like I had to prove to him I could hold my own two feet and do a damn good job at it. I guess it goes to the saying that a black person has to be this much and more to even be equal to a white person. It’s not surprising that frequently coworker A has no college degree and is making X amount a year and coworker B has a graduate degree from a well reputable university and is making that same X per year. Coworker A is white and coworker B is black. **Sorry got off topic, whole different issue ***

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that some WM treat BW as inferior regardless of the BW’s level of class, education, and income. It’s like the world justifies men disrespecting a crack whore wearing skimpy clothing and lucite heels. Who would honestly argue if similar comments listed in this post were directed to a real “common street whore”? The problem is these comments are popping up in environments where the woman is far from such and the man knows this.

The only reason White men feel like they can say whatever disrespectful comment they want to black women is because of all the negetive things they hear about us from black men period. And its a shame.

Nubian Queen,

I don’t think that’s the only reason some white men say things they do to black women. But, there have been two times in my life black men told me why they only dated white women. They both had a long list of negative commets about black women.

“I have to wonder if I am the only person who gets such frank advances for sex by white men. They are from guys I barely even got acquainted with.”

Maybe its the region you’re in. Are you in the southern region of the US? I’m in the mid-atlantic, technically southern, but culturally northern, I’m near DC in MD suburbs, i dont’ really have too much trouble with white guys behaving inappropriately to me or bm for that matter. I’ve had issues with white men touching my hair (i’m naturaly) but ww have done that too. but other than that, i’ve haven’t had all this negative stuff that some people are going on about. it’s unfortunate, but maybe its the region you’re in. For the most part white males go about their buisness here and just keep to their own, except in Columbia,MD, i see alot of bw/wm couples there so maybe there a bit more open there, but other than that…white males in my experience mostly keep to themselves where i am.

Peanut: I’m in the same area (my parents live in PG county but I’m out near the PA border) and it’s definitely MUCH better here.
But Texas was terrible. Even Austin wasn’t that great.

“In regards to some white men who behave this way it may also have racial overtones as they are the ones with the most to lose in the power game.”

Definitely. It’s just a modern way to put you in your place.

“therefore my “being dramatic” or using hyperbole does not detract from my argument which makes it an apt comparison and completely relevant to the discussion”

Sexual harassment, racialized sexism, sexual assault… It’s just a continuum. Where does one begin and the other one end? It’s the same power-play underlining the actions.

Just a hypothetical situation:
Is it sexual assault if my colleague rubs his hand on my butt, or sexual harassment? What if he says, “BW have nice asses.” while he does it. Racialized sexism?
Either way, he’s an asshole and I shouldn’t have to put up with his crap.

“Also, Racialicious editors must be intuitive with this blog, because they just did a great Op Ed piece on street harassment”

I love that blog. But don’t even GET ME STARTED on street harassment. If I started I’d never be able to stop.

“As if a 21 year old BW cannot own a car and afford the luxury of shopping?”

Tell me about it. I’d have guys hitting on me, showing me “bling”, expecting me to… what? Drop my pants in excitement? It was so ironic because my income was often higher than theirs. What? A BW who doesn’t care about money?! I thought they were all gold diggers looking for a Sugar Daddy.

“Sadly, due to my own personal issues and experiences, I have this negative impression on any WM who shows a hint of attraction to me.”

You’re not alone. I got tired of that crap. Only problem was that BM weren’t much better.

I got tired of them assuming I was the “help”. One of the best scenes from the movie Something New was when she showed up to lead a meeting and the guy kept looking behind her and commented that he’d wait until the accountant showed up. You know BW all over America were nodding and saying, “I’ve been there.”

Once during an audit I caught a project manager BLATANTLY lying about his documentation and I called him out on it. A colleague pulled me aside at the break and said (all pissed off like he’d been personally insulted), “You need to cut it out. You can’t just walk in there, in your little skirt, shaking your ass, and treat them like underlings.” I just WENT OFF on him and complained to my supervisor later, as well (who put the fear of God in him for me).

When I first read this, my first thought was, this has to be some crazy extreme. Never in all of my 25 years have I experienced a white man say something like that to me or been in any of those situations. But I do believe that it happens after reading all of the posts. White guys…and maybe it’s because I grew up in a white neighborhood, went to all white schools all of my life and went to NYU where people (mostly) are educated, never approached me in that way. I have no idea why, but never. What’s funny is that only black men say crude things to me, which really disappoints me. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. And no, Islandgirl, it has nothing to do with how you carry yourself. It can be the dead of winter, piles of snow, I’m wearing Uggs, baggy jeans, a hoodie and a huge long bubble coat and guys still cat call. It’s ridiculous. I was actually having this conversation with my coworker yesterday. This guy at work made me some steak for no gosh darn reason besides he wants to get in my pants and actually came over IN FRONT OF MY BOSS to tell me about his lovely pieces of steak and my coworker was like, why do all of these guys always hit on you? My answer? Because I’m black. I think part of the problem is that we just accept it and let it slide by ignoring them. I’ve stopped saying anything back because that only seems to egg them on. It’s disgusting. I’ve said “f-you” to a guy before and he literally chased me down the street asking if I really want to be “f-ed.” All of my experiences have been with black men though.

i’ve been approached by bm in MD, older bm, but once i told them politely I wasn’t interested they’ve always left me alone. Sometimes, they’d just stare at me in their cars, the worst experience I’ve had with bm was in baltimore in the inner harbor. Don’t go to baltimore. If you really want to get a man to leave you alone just start talking about the bible. Ask them if they know Christ and quote some scripture, they’ll either mellow down immediately or leave, it works.

Texas was a strange situation because the white guys dated “out” frequently but were still racist.
A lot of them categorize women into different “flavors” and try to “taste the rainbow”. They’d compare notes: “Have you ever had an Asian chick? A black chick? What was the difference? Is it true that Latinas are the hottest in bed?” It’s dehumanizing.
I guess it comes from the generally chauvinistic culture and the racially-charged background.

I knew one who was dating a Latina acquaintance of mine and… you know how they “like BW just not the ghetto ones.” Well, he “liked Latinas just not the wetbacks.” Nice. Don’t know how she could stand him. You see plenty of that there. Guys who shout at the Mexicans working in a restaurant, “This is America, speak ENGLISH!” and shag Mexican girls on the weekend.

“I truly believe White men and Black women do not give each other a second thought. ”

for the most part i think this is true, i think to an extent the two groups really dont’ truly see eachother as man and woman, as if it never occurs to eachother, that they’re both men and women and should they come together…yes they could reproduce. I think some wm just don’t see bw as women and some bw just don’t see white men as men. For whatever reason, but I have to say the white men that i have known who have been attracted to bw were very confident in their attraction and didn’t really care what anyone else thought, they didn’t have all the racial hangups.

Close to Memphis? I grew up 100 NE of Memphis. I don’t care what anyone says, Memphis is a great town, especially in May. I love Nawlins also. The first time I went there was in 77. Had a great time in Fats City. The second time I went, I worked there after Katrina. I hope I never see anything like that again.

The examples above are VERY extreme examples of racialized sexual harrassment. It happens, but it’s not the norm. We live in a country where race, while appearant in virtually every aspect of American life, is rarely openly discussed. So, most white men who feel that way wouldn’t come out and voice out (in a sober state, at least) because it would be un-PC.

“take trying to understand anything if you haven’t directly experienced it, which means, having a measure of empathy without being quick to dismiss claims that you find personally outrageous.”

Did I not say that I feel bad for those women, though in post 53? I am a very empathatic person. But I think that you are taking someone who has a different point of view and picking to make a point.

Also, Annie or any of those women as a topic is not overstating or being dramatic. You were dramatic in asking did they deserve those terrible things. Well, OF COARSE NOT. Who in their right mind would think that? I said that I was finished with this topic, but I ever want someone to try to paint me as unempathetic toward something that I don’t understand.

Cat calling can degenerate quickly into street harassment which can be very… extreme. Men following you down the street cursing at you, blocking your path, grabbing you, pushing you around. Scary stuff.

Yes, I figured you were kinda “laying low”. You’re smart. But honestly, I didn’t mean to come off as a unempathetic person. Thank you for that! I’ll pick another topic to post about, thank you very much.lol

Most of my experiences happened when I lived in PA/NJ surprisingly. I honestly think its because I am a shy girl with a soft voice and most guys just want to take advantage of that. I don’t know, it seems when I have been on dates with BM or even Hispanic men who identify racially as black that I was treated better. They actually took me to a restaurant and to the movies. They would make sure I got home safe and didn’t try to do anything too fresh. Like they really were trying to gain my attraction and show me a nice time. I dunno, maybe I need to work up a better detection signal for WM. Or maybe I am spoiled because I like being pampered a bit. But yeah, the WM I have been involved with do not want to treat me or show me to a nice time. It’s like they already have the cat in the bag and don’t have to work.

I really do hate the fact that you ladies were mistreated. No woman should be treated that way by any man. In my opinion, if a man is a pig he is a pig. The white men that treat you this way probably mistreat white women also.

“The white men that treat you this way probably mistreat white women also.”
Yes, of course. Although with WW they probably dress their pig up with lipstick. LOL!

“There are confederate flags everywhere in this particular town in Mississippi. Blacks pretty much associate with Blacks. Whites associate with Whites.”

Wow. That’s like a throwback to segregation. Everyone shags everyone here. No sexual discrimination of that sort. And no social or geographical separation, either. It’s completely integrated.

I asked my neighbor about the flags here yesterday and he just smirked and said that they were put up in silent protest when he and his wife moved in a few years ago. He followed with, “When you all and the others moved in last year I thought their heads were going to explode.”

It’d be funny to take someone from your neighborhood and transplant them here. We just got back from the fall festival (the local Germanic blood dictates a carnival at least once a month). It was like an anti-miscegenation nightmare. LOL! Really, at least a fourth of the couples were interracial. Maybe more. Little caramel-colored babies EVERYWHERE.

Maybe we’re looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you don’t have to deal with WM saying rude, racist, sexist things to you because… they aren’t pursuing you. What we’re dealing with is the WM version of street harassment.

I was talking to my cousin (a dark-skinned BW) yesterday — this thread has me collecting anecdotes, LOL — and told her about the big debate “Why WM think BW are unattractive” and she just stared at me like I was crazy and then burst out laughing. “That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. If they don’t find us attractive why do I have to practically beat them off with a stick?” And she does. So do I.

She agrees: some of them say really stupid racist stuff.

Location, location, location.

As annoying as the ridiculous comments are I have to admit that I think it would be worse to live in an area where a large portion of the population didn’t even see me as a woman; a viable mate. At least the guys around here recognize that we’re female. Just really horny ones.

I just noticed that if you think about some of the things we complain about WM saying about us, they’re like mirror-images of what BM are saying to us. It really is the same thing, isn’t it? Reducing us to our body parts and our race in a tasteless attempt to demean us.
Sort of the equivalent of a man breaking up with his eternally-dieting girlfriend and saying, “I never wanted a fatty like you anyway!”

And the rest is just another form of street harassment — immature, racialized sexism.

Interesting quote: “courts in general have been likely to conclude that a white man is honestly and innocently mistaken if he believes a black woman on the street is a prostitute and therefore she should not be offended or alarmed by his proposal.”

with the excerpt:
“Black women are harassed by both white and Black men — experiences that evoke different historical associations. Historically, African-American women have been subjected to particularly virulent and degrading forms of harassment by white men. They were treated as the sexual property of their masters during slavery, and this attitude survived emancipation. n77 A typical modern interchange is described in a scene in Lorraine Hansberry’s To Be Young, Gifted and Black:
In these streets out there, any little white boy from Long Island or Westchester sees me and leans out of his car and yells — “Hey there, hot chocolate! Say there, Jezebel! Hey you — ‘Hundred Dollar Misunderstanding’! YOU! Bet you know where there’s a good time tonight. . . .” n78
bell hooks has accurately explained this exchange as premised upon the assumption that all Black women, regardless of their class, are prostitutes and are available as sex objects. n79 Thus, when African-American [*534] women are har-assed on the street, the experience evokes a long history of disrespect, degradation, and inhumane sexual mistreatment to which Black women have been subjected over the years.”

I’m late to the party, but I had a lot of school stuff to get done this week. Hello everyone. 🙂

Like Islandgirl I’ve only heard #s 4 & 10. When I was studying in Spain some guy told me that I look like Naomi Campbell, and given that I am barely 5’3”, naturally I cracked up.

As far as the vibes no vibes thing, I tend to agree with Islandgirl and Lynette (not that it makes this behavior acceptable). I know I’m a naturally smiley person, and I feel like a lot of times guys “holla” at me because I’m small and they know I’m not going to crack a bottle over their head or anything. That doesn’t explain every situation, but I can see how assessing the potential costs (getting embarrassed) and benefits (getting a number) can play a role in the approach. I’ve never had anyone disrespect me either…no guy has ever called me a b**** or anything if I rejected him. The ones who try (and fail) to step to me tend to just keep it moving when I say no.

EMM says,
In subtle ways, he treated me with inferiority. I would say he was both misogynist and racist. He just could not respect me even with the attributes I hold.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that some WM treat BW as inferior regardless of the BW’s level of class, education, and income.

Black&German says:
I just noticed that if you think about some of the things we complain about WM saying about us, they’re like mirror-images of what BM are saying to us. It really is the same thing, isn’t it? Reducing us to our body parts and our race in a tasteless attempt to demean us.

laromana says,
EMM and Black and German,
The experiences you’ve shared, where some WM have DEMEANED/DEGRADED you, illustrate the continuing legacy of HISTORICAL ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in American culture.

Like Black &German I’ve been blessed with a very womanly shape (since age 12).
I can wear a shapeless t-shirt and you’ll still see the curves.
As a teenager I couldn’t handle the attention so I got into grunge stuff, baggy jeans, baggy tops. It didn’t make a blind bit of difference.
A female senior student actually pulled me aside once and said, you know you can’t hide what you have? No matter what you wear it’s obvious.

What I learnt however was that some women who don’t experience what others go through, lack empathy, they might say oh what a shame you go through blah blah blah… but really they don’t mean it.
They pat themselves on the backs for not being what you are and then they villify you.

I remember joining a new school and making friends with this white boy. Hw was the best! Respectful, interested in my culture and stuff, he was a joy to be around.

Then a few people told me what he does to other black women he meets, how rude he is, how he uses things he picked up from me in innocent conversation to be sexually aggressive towards them.
He never did it at school, he would always do it outside.
See, he had learned where and to whom to display his boorishness.
It had absolutely nothing with carriage, his only fear of me was that he would lose that connection to his constant stream of info, and that I could possibly beat him up (I was a tomboy) or maybe I had a stable background which meant that I would take any infractions by him to a higher authority and report it.

Nothing to do with class, nothing to do with what I wear.

So to those who are ‘lucky’ not to have been approached this way, don’t worry… one day you will step into an environment of WM who haven’t learnt to put on their masks yet, or simply don’t care.

Interesting read and I can definitely relate to some of these situations. I agree to a certain extent about the “vibes” thing, its not so much as slutty vs sophisticated though, I think its as Jasmin said, its more about “hmm can I get away with it or not?”

My first and probably most memorable experience with this behavior is when I recently arrived in the U.S and was in highschool, I was walking home from the bus stop, this car slows down to a creep beside me and this man (white guy) who’s old enough to be my father and then some pulls up, I remember his smoke stained teeth through his half smile making comments about my body and trying to get me to have a “lil party” with him, I’m standing there unprepared and frozen like it couldn’t be happening and get this….the guy actually whipped it out! At that point I freaked and grabbed the biggest rock that could fit in my hand and just let it fly as he tried to burn rubber and haul off. Not counting the guy who tried getting me into his van I guess that’s an example of no. 5

I wouldn’t say most of the white men I’ve come in contact with behave this way (or maybe they were and hid it well) but man, the jerks sure do stand out lol. I’ve rarely had Black men disrespect me, at least not to my face, which is odd as my generation (I’m 24) of men are often pegged as these thug types. I often get smiles and passing comments like “Hello, my queen” and “Hey, pretty lady/momma”, “How you doin’ beautiful”, open doors, given up seats.

And my variation on no. 8.

“Ooh I want me a Jamaican girl!”
– because apparently all black Caribbean people are Jamaican and are just aching to satisfy your fetishes. I had to shrug and walk away.

After the umpteenth time some scum bag has the nerve to not only believe he can step to you any old way but also expects to get you, you start stacking on the armor and you’re less inclined to be nice about rejecting them. But of course, you being black makes that somehow inexcusable because we should’ve been grateful. And I know for a fact that a lot of Asian women have to deal with that crap too because its not very “Asian” to tell these pricks where to shove it, the few times I’ve seen it, I love the look of shock on the face when that stereotype gets shattered all to hell ^^.

And I do get strangers wanting to touch my hair. Many a times I rock a big fro with some pins or clips, its really thick and really dark and out of control(love untamed hair :3 ), I know black women don’t pull any punches, its usually the “What are you mixed with?” I say that I’m not and both my parents are black(and they are) and it usually ends there. Some Whites usually take a different approach I notice, I guess the word “mixed” is too racial so its “What nationality are you?” which is basically asking are you “black black”? or “other black”?

One guy thought he was so progressive and he just had to know so I told him exactly what it is. I told him, I don’t recognize the Portuguese blood because my great grandmother was sold to her husband, who, in turn sold his daughter to a man who thought she was so pretty that he literally had to own her and despite them having eight children, he has never kissed her once and she hated having sex with him because she got nothing out of it except a swollen belly, all this she admits now in her later years, now that she gathered the strength to leave him, and in celebration of it she cut off her hair to a short crop, the hair that he demanded be butt length. Now you know something about why MY hair looks the way it does, do you still think its appropriate to walk up to someone and start shoving your hands in their personal space while beating around the bush about their ethnicity as an ice breaker? He sputtered some apologies and seemed to have trouble looking me in the eyes. He had enough spine not to avoid me after that but he became really polite.

If my color is what peaks your interest in me then I don’t need to be talking to you.

Maybe this is more of a big-city thing. I spend a lot of time in DC, Baltimore, and Austin and the men there are more forward than in the small city I live in. Maybe the anonymity makes it safer for them.

We believe you. We just wish you wouldn’t assume that men harass or insult us because of US. It’s the guys that are the problem.

And, to tell you the truth, I don’t know any woman of color — who hasn’t experienced this sort of thing at least a few times in her life. So, it’s surprising that all three of you swear you haven’t. But maybe that’s just Abagond’s particular demographic.

“So to those who are ‘lucky’ not to have been approached this way, don’t worry… one day you will step into an environment of WM who haven’t learnt to put on their masks yet, or simply don’t care.”

This sounds like a bad wish upon us. I don’t claim bad wishes and I ask for GOD to continue to cover us who haven’t exprienced that or anyone for that matter (yes, I’m a Christian girl). I’m not crazy.lol

Soul, all of us are blessed with something as women. I look at some of these ladies’ avatars, I see women on the street who are left alone and they are clearly beautiful women so I truly don’t think looks have much do to with harassment. In fact, true story. I was in NYC and I saw actress Nicole Ari Parker (the camera does her no justice, she’s gorgeous) as I was coming out of a store. I thought men were going to freak. No one said a word to her. They may have looked briefly or smiled, but they left her alone. When she walked she looked straight ahead with a clear purpose and was no nonsense.

“Maybe we’re looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you don’t have to deal with WM saying rude, racist, sexist things to you because… they aren’t pursuing you. What we’re dealing with is the WM version of street harassment.”

The issue isn’t whether a WM is pursuing. It’s how they pursue. They do pursue, but not in such rude and sexist ways. Just because men treat you with respect does not mean they aren’t interested. It’s because of this respect that they show that indicates they do see us as a viable mate. But again, I think every woman deserves respect.

I guess my main concern or interest is as to why some women get approached in this manner and some don’t. You can take the same scuzzball, but why does he adjust his behavior from one woman to the next? I’m really into Socialogy so I’m always trying to figure people out.

“You can take the same scuzzball, but why does he adjust his behavior from one woman to the next?”

Does he?

Yesterday evening (on the way to the festival) I was walking out of the library with my kids and this car of Mexicans rolls by and an idiot leans out of his car window and “hollas” at me (yeah, Mexican guys do this too). Umm… why? He barely had time to even see me as I’d just exited the building. I’m a housewife in an ankle-length jeans skirt and sandals at the library with my toddlers.

That morning (in the same attire and also with my kids) a white guy blew his horn at me while I was crossing the street at a crosswalk. When I looked over (after nearly having a heart attack) he leans out the window and shouts, “Hey, senorita!” Can we say… moronic? What was the purpose of doing that? Can’t I just walk in peace?

Yes, this stuff happens to me every week, sometimes more than once a day. I can not tell you why I am so singularly blessed.

How about mimicking cunnilingus? Telling me that I have a nice ass and grabbing it as I walk by. Coping a feel in the Metro? Groups of men insulting me when I walk by and getting angry if I respond.

And some of the list things were incidents from high school or college. Walking down the hallway stuff. (and some were not my own quotes)

At any rate, I’ve run clean out of pub/work/school antidotes because I’m a housewife now and don’t spend much time in those environments. But it seems to me that the harassment on the street is just a different version of the same old thing. It leaves the same unpleasant aftertaste.

“Yes, this stuff happens to me every week, sometimes more than once a day. I can not tell you why I am so singularly blessed.”

You were being sarcastic, I hope.lol

Black & German, I’m going to say something, which I know I shouldn’t but I decided I have a right to voice my opinions too. PLEASE don’t take this the wrong way. I want to put this as delicately as possible. Mostly all women who experience horrible disrespect from men and it truly bothers, irritates and makes them very angry. I HATE that women have to experience this.

Then, I’ve been around acquaintances (not friends) who, believe it or not, take this as a compliment. To them, it’s an ego boost and let’s them know (or think) that they are desired. Men say these things sexually charged things and they smile. They love to share the stories like a badge of honor. A pat on the back. This is what concerns me.

No woman escapes cat calling. I’m no exception. I think a lot of it has more to do with power over a woman. But the other things on the list perplexed me. I just cannot put my brain around that. I’m definetly not saying their false, I do believe you.

“Does he?”

Yes, he does. Not every single one because things aren’t black and white. We all adjust our behavior, so why shouldn’t men in regards to his approach. Do you think that if a man truely has an interest in a woman, he would be crude and rude? How many stories have you heard of a happy couple meeting and the woman said that he was rude or explicit in his approach? Very few.

Given the potientally serious nature of this topic, I think it’s important for men (who may be reviewing these comments) to know that this behavior is undesireable and unwanted. Because most men do justify their actions by stating that women enjoy the attention.

“Do you think that if a man truly has an interest in a woman, he would be crude and rude? How many stories have you heard of a happy couple meeting and the woman said that he was rude or explicit in his approach? Very few.”

@Islandgirl…
1) nope it;s not a bad wish and if you read what I wrote, you’d see where I was coming from.
Some white men hide it very well, they learn when and where to say what they say.
That has been my experience, if you leave your usual env. then you are bound to come across someone who will not respect those boundaries which other white men might have for you. It’s a simple fact.
I have not comment on your religion but cool for you I guess.

2) I never said we all aren’t blessed with something. I made my comment to Black &German because it from what she has said we have the same body type.
P.S. you are not with those ‘beautiful women 24hours a day’ just because they are NOT harrassed in front of you doesn;t mean that they aren’t harrassed at some point.
It is possible that men were intimidated by or simply she wasn’t subject to harrassment that day or worse yet… shock horror maybe they just didn’t find her attractive. (cos to me, Nicole Ari parker is not my definition of ‘gorgeous’ and yes I have seen her in real life. But what does that matter anyway?

4) Why do you think that girls who are harrassed do not walk with purpose?.
Do you think we hang around walking slovenly just begging, waiting to be approached.

The rest of the items you quoted.. I didn’t say so have no idea why you have attributed them to me, but I will say this though… it’s great that you have an interest in Sociology but it might be great to examine your own biases before approaching a topic.

@island girl, I’ve just re-read my post and I really shouldn’t type in haste. I don’t think the tone carried very well.

on your last post you said this:
‘No woman escapes cat calling. I’m no exception. I think a lot of it has more to do with power over a woman’

Maybe what you call cat calling is what some of us call harrassment. So it;s not that you haven;’t been subjected to some form of harrassment it is that your boundaries are different than others? (just asking)
The other thing is, some places people are a lot more blunt than others, so what they say might be a little bit cruder.
The some point of it all is this.
It is not the type of woman which determines the catcalls.
It’s essentially the type of man and who he decides to catcall, not because of how they are dressed, how they walk, but because he can or he wants to harrass someone at that particular point or because he thinks he can get away with it.

She’s just stating her experiences, like some of you are stating yours. Just because men seem comfortable being so unusually sexually forward to you, doesn’t mean that every woman gets approached that way. Usually, its the “losers” who come at women in the way that B&G and others described. Why? Because they have nothing to lose anyway.

I also agree with Soul, I wouldn’t call Nicole Ari Parker gorgeous but I think what Islandgirl was trying to say was that a famous woman walked past a group of men and they didn’t “sweat” her. So, Islandgirl has a point, looks (and fame) aren’t everything.

This blog is about stuff white men say to black women. Unfortunately, most of what I have read has been negative. Can any of you women recall an instance where a white man approached you in a dignified manner, was a gentleman and said nice things?

I always say that I’m not going to post again on this topic, but I find myself wanting to respond or justify my views. I guess your first instinct is correct.

Soul, I’m sorry if there’s something about me that brings out hostility. Even though we don’t agree, I try not be snarky in my comments. Not necesarry and not even that deep.

“@island girl, I’ve just re-read my post and I really shouldn’t type in haste. I don’t think the tone carried very well.”

Thanks, don’t know what I’ve done. Whatever it is, it’s not intentional to you are anyone else.

“So it;s not that you haven;’t been subjected to some form of harrassment it is that your boundaries are different than others? (just asking)”

To me cat calling is someone saying, “You’re gorgeous” or “Nice smile” and then they leave you alone. Any respectable remark about appearence. Nothing that refers to anything sexual (specifically in reference to body type or certain body parts). Not anything sleazy or cheap. Anything less than that is pure harassment.

My boundaries are set very high regarding harassment. Men (at least the ones I know personally) know that I don’t tolerate anything disrespectful. So my boundaries are no lower than anyone else’s.

The Nicole Ari Parker was just an example to illustrate that there is a deeper component to street harassment than looks. And I said that the men looked and smiled, they just didn’t dare approach.

Please don’t put words in my mouth. When did I say it was because of you that people approach you that way? I said men may perceive you a certain way, but in that context their perception is out of your control to an extent. Plus, I didn’t say men have never talked to me on the street, I said they’ve never disrespected me. Though once I remembered that the topic was “Things White men say to Black women” I realized no White man has ever catcalled me, only Black men do. Either way, they don’t verbally assault me so I don’t really pay them any mind.

I would agree with you, Islandgirl, that some people like that kind of attention and play a whole “Oh poor me, I’m so beautiful men can’t resist!” game. It’s unfortunate that they get validation from that kind of attention, but I think it’s been ingrained in Black women that Black men are naturally “aggressive” so we are supposed to be flattered by that kind of attention.

O.k., I’m not delusional in this assessment. I was petrified to say that because I was afraid of backlash. I thought that I was the only one who noticed this. Kinda self-congratulatory disguised as annoyance.

I’ve experienced that way of thinking with a select few of women. I have some stories that would leave you speechless. But all in all – I’ve been around all different types of women and disrespect or harassment is very uncommon among us. The reason I even mentioned it is because it was implied in a couple of posts as to why men harass is based on looks. That’s simply not true. Some beautiful women may get harassed, and other beautiful women don’t. But it’s important, as women, not to get validation from that type of attention. We deserve a better type of validation than that. Validation that comes from accomplishing your dreams/goals and your personal growth is what really matters.
Disclaimer * This is in NO way to say that all or most women who experience harassment think like this, and I know that’s not what you’re saying.

“Can any of you women recall an instance where a white man approached you in a dignified manner, was a gentleman and said nice things?”

Yes!!!

Actually, it happens more than the negative stuff I just remember the negatives more, unfortunately. Yesterday was unusually bad downtown because of the festival; that always brings the rogues and rednecks out of the country. The vast majority don’t make any comment about my appearance at all. Mostly it’s just admiring glances and polite smiles.

They weren’t all “approaching me” but rather complimenting me nicely or just being sweet.

— Picking my daughter up from the child-watch at the gym: one of the fathers was behind me in line and was looking for his kid. When I went to pick up my little girl he smiled at me and said, “Figures.” I was like, “Huh? What figures?” and he responded, “I was just wondering what her mother looks like. Figures it would be you. She’s beautiful.”
(note: since having kids I get A LOT of comments like that, more so than comments purely based on my own appearance)

— Waving me to take his place in line at a crowded grocery store: “Beautiful women and children first.”

— Discussing various sourdough recipes in German with my German baker, he calls to his son who is working near him: “Isn’t it wonderful? She’s pretty, speaks German, and knows her bread. Her husband is a lucky man.”

— My husband’s colleague meeting me for the first time, “Looks like you married up, man. In looks, anyway.”

— Approached by a man at the mall, trying to start up a conversation, “Please tell me you’re not taken.” Hold up my left hand, “Sorry, married.” Puts his right hand over his heart and groans, “Ah. The best ones always go first.”

— Buying crepe in Germany: “Are you from Spain? No? I was in Spain for vacation last year. There were so many beautiful women there that looked a lot like you. I couldn’t get over it.” My husband spends a lot of time in Madrid and he had told me that there really are a lot of women there that remind him of me.

— My husband’s friend helping him move into my apartment sees me, drops the box on his foot, and cries, “Damn, dude. You didn’t warn me she’d be gorgeous. That was a safety hazard.”

Oh, I understand Lynette. There are a lot of white guys that are good guys, and they mean well in their heart. But, their head is in the proverbial place where the sun don’t shine. The most common mistake, they think because the woman is black they have to act or say something different from what they would say to a white woman. For some reason a lot of white are always mentioning that she’s black. For example, “you have beautiful hair” or “You have beautiful hair for a black woman.” They usually put their foot in their mouth.

I am in your motherland. I am in Lake Charles LA visiting friends. First thing was an oyster po boy and cracklins. I could hear my arteries slamming shut, but it was so delicious. Heading to Memphis monday.

@island girl,
dunno why u feel ganged up on, you brought some stuff up, a few people addressed and countered them. As for the tangents (religion) I simply don’t understand what it has to do with anything or why you brought it up.

p.s. I wasn’t snarky, I simply stated things from my perspective and on the tangents I chose not to go down that road and wished you good luck with them.

You know most of the challenges here have been against Black&German but she hasn’t felt ‘ganged up on’ she has simply clarified her case…

There’s nothing personal here, I don’t know you. I addressed some of your points. end of.

Re: your new points.
You know, how you define cheap and how someone else defines cheap and the env. which an approach occurs can define what is and isn’t harrassment.

What if the same man says ‘you are gorgeous every day of the week in the same spot, but because you are always in a hurry you don’t realise that the minute you turn around he sticks his tongue out and flicks it?.
Then one day you drop your bag, turn around and see that’s what he is doing?

Up until that point you presume he is just cat calling, it’s only an accident of fate that makes you realise what he is doing behind your back. I’m not saying this happens all the time but it does happen. especially if men are in a group.

You say your boundaries are very high, so are mine.. and like you I have never been harrassed by any man (black or white) that I know personally, it has always been strangers.
For a long time, I changed the way I walked, talked, walked around with a scowl it worked in isolating me from decent people, cos you know what… idiotic men will still yell things at you. Black or white. White men however have a sense of ownership which makes them racialise most of their harrassment.

I understood why you used Nicole Ari Parker as an example and I pointed out why it might be flawed.
Sometimes Fame makes people ‘act right’ or put there best foot forward, especially since she doesn’t play a ‘jezebel’ on tv.
Besides I think many people will presume that she might be walking alone but there must be a bodyguard lurking somewhere which means I better not step out of line.

it’s ironic isn’t it, that you viewed my post as hostile, on the same token I viewed most of yours as flippant and dismissive, I guess tone doesn’t carry very well online.

Suffice to say, I type as I talk, mostly in a conversational tone, again it doesn’t carry well online.

anyway, I don’t know why you feel ganged up because I a few people addressed your points and countered them, I honestly didn’t know why you brought religion in,

“The only one not covered by any of these is #4: “Hey you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry.” Which is not necessarily racist.”

But it is!
It’s the old: all black people look alike. It’d be the equivalent of going up to any random Asian woman and saying, “You look just like Lucy Lui!” even if she’s from the Philippines. Or telling Angela Bassett, “You look just like Tyra Banks!”

“This website features a picture of Michelle Obama”

I wished I hadn’t looked at that. How absolutely vile!

“For a long time, I changed the way I walked, talked, walked around with a scowl it worked in isolating me from decent people, cos you know what… idiotic men will still yell things at you.”

Yes, they will! And talking back to them rarely helps. They like any attention you give them, even the negative sort.

“The only one not covered by any of these is #4: “Hey you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry.” Which is not necessarily racist.”

But it is!
It’s the old: all black people look alike. It’d be the equivalent of going up to any random Asian woman and saying, “You look just like Lucy Lui!” even if she’s from the Philippines. Or telling Angela Bassett, “You look just like Tyra Banks!”

(Omigosh! Let me tell you how many times I’ve been told I resemble Lucy Liu simply because I’m Asian. Now please tell me. Do I look anything like Lucy Liu? lol! Or Margaret Cho and Zhang Ziyi for that matter.)

@Black&German..
‘”Yes, they will! And talking back to them rarely helps. They like any attention you give them, even the negative sort.’

Now, I don’t care anymore.
I go where I want, I do what I want. And thank God for strength and agility training I stand up to these fools especially the ones who harras me in public places. I fight back. I speak loudly so people around can hear what the man in question has said or done.

Other black people have told me they had very little with white people growing up. I’m just the opposite. It’s hard for me to imagine not growing up around black people. I was twelve years old before I went to school with black people, but I always grew up around them.I spent as much time on my grandfater’s farm as possible. Down the road were two black families that had farms. If someone needed help we all came together. After, we all went our way. In times like that you learn to have a lot of respect for people. I wouldn’t trade that for anything.

As I,ve said before, I can’t explain why I have always been attracted to black women. I don’t try to explain it. I was 46 when I married my wife. The first time I had married. I just wish I had met her 30 years ago.

You black women should hear some of the questions I get from white men!

This is the thing though. Black women or WOC in general are not some damn aliens lol I mean we are individual with different personalities. If they want to talk to us they can approach us. Just not disrespectfully. I mean the quotes that are listed above is just down right inapproriate.

Now you have me thinking about my childhood. I did play with a couple of girls in my neighborhood that were White. I don’t know why that didn’t stand out to me before. At any rate, as we matured we didn’t really speak to each other anymore (about middle school age). I think that is typical of children of different races. As we grow older, we begin to gravitate toward people with commonalities. My daughter is experiencing the same thing now.

Exactly. I think the biggest mistake most white men make,they consider one black woman as all black women. It seems to be difficult for them to treat black women as individuals.

Yeah. However, I want to ask you do some of your white male friends really believe that the things that they say to Black women are approriate? I mean to me some of the stuff that is listed above is common sense that it is not respectful.

dani says,This is the thing though. Black women or WOC in general are not some damn aliens lol I mean we are individual with different personalities. If they want to talk to us they can approach us. Just not disrespectfully. I mean the quotes that are listed above is just down right inapproriate.

ramblinrick says:Exactly. I think the biggest mistake most white men make,they consider one black woman as all black women. It seems to be difficult for them to treat black women as individuals.

laromana says,
Dani, ramblinrick,
I strongly agree with both of you about the problem some American WM have treating BW as INDIVIDUALS and approaching us in a RESPECTFUL manner. Unfortunately, I feel this goes back to the ANTI-BW RACISM that some American WM have towards BW and that is REINFORCED by ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES in American culture/media.

MY white FRIENDS, I have never heard say anything inappropriate. Most of them have never considered dating outside of their race. If you ask them they really have no opinion about the matter.

Now, I have heard white men (are not my friends) say a lot of things inappropriate. These people are simply assholes. I have also heard these same people say wrong things to white women. My friends know my situation and they show my wife the utmost respect. Some white men are morons. I get questions like,

“Is the hair on their head the same as down there”

“Is it really pink on the inside”

“Can you really set a cup of coffee on that ass”

I am not you, so I can’t say truly I understand. But I think I have some idea what ladies deal with.

I live in LA. Just a few weeks ago as I was walking into Ralph’s grocery store, a white man slowed down and said to me in a slimy voice, “Wanna have some fun.” I just kept walking and he kept driving. Now I believe in my case, it had to do with my overall look. I am almost 30 but look like a teenager because I am petite with an innocent look to my face, so I have been told. I could tell with the way he said it that it wasn’t his first time. He even looked like the type of guy you would see on Chris Hansen’s, To Catch a Predator. So he probably thought I was some naive, 18 year old who didn’t know any better. I was definitely insulted, but tried not to take it personally because I could tell he was a pro at this, and thought I “looked” dumb enough to be his next bait.

But most of the time, when a white guy is hitting on me, it is in a respectful way.

Black people have a tendency to look at it as our problem if whites don’t see us as human. It’s not our problem, it’s theirs. If whites look at blacks and don’t see them as human simply because of skin color then that’s their problem, not ours. That’s something they have to work out mentally. When God made us, he wasn’t thinking about them so why should we?

People that give my wife a hard time, since we’ve been married, are other black women. One of her so called best friends has not spoken to her since we have been married. They practically work side by side. Figure that one out.

@ramblinrick…‘As I have said before, not one black man has ever said one negative thing to me about dating or being marrried to a black woman. It’s all been from white people’.

Your second post then says:‘People that give my wife a hard time, since we’ve been married, are other black women’.

Which one is it?

And after reading all the stuff on this blog, why would it surprise you that some other black women would give her a hard time?.

Many black women do not trust the intentions of white men period. Largely due to generations of abuse at the hands of white men. Just because you a solitary white man might have pure intentions, it doesn’t make it easy to overlook that. No-one wants to see their friends get used or abused and sometimes the pain one has received makes it illogical and impossible to reconcile differences.

For instance, I find it difficult to be friends with a woman who is living with in a domestic violence situation. I’ll be completely honest and say point blank, I have ended a friendship with a woman who was being beaten up by her husband.

Many times, white men have been our abusers, why would you think it is easy for other black women to see their best friend with someone who might have been their abuser?

On another note, you might have experienced some discrimination as a result of being with your wife, but please! you do not experience debilitating institutional racism. Racism which can determine your job, your hopes, your aspirations.

You do not experience the constant degradation and humiliation of a ‘system’ which protects you and damn near guarantees your survival but has your wife fighting for hers.

You can empathise, but you do not experience it.

You face a hostile friend, we face a hostile world, where our very essence, our very souls are undermined. Obstacles are set in our way from birth, the system re-enforces a devaluation of us, our esteem and sense of self.

You can’t just be a proud black person – that’s arrogant.
You can’t aim too high – it must be lateral
If you succeed – it is because you are ‘white like’.

Our communities are under threat by systems put in place by people who sometimes look like you, act like you and talk like you.

Do you expect black people not to be wary?

I have no doubt that you love your wife and that you have worked on unpacking the racism which society enforces, but it really is a never ending process and many black people will not accept you and rightly so.

We have been burned before by people who spoke a heck of a lot more eloquently, who immersed themselves in our culture, married our women and still ended up viewing us as inferior.

As a black woman, I am constantly on guard. Every time I have dropped my guard I have been punished by it and my white friends who I would have given my life for have reverted back to their racist ways.

I actually laughed at your last comment, where you wrote ‘figure that one out’.

What’s to figure out? Tell a woman who has been abused constantly by a man that you are safe, because you married a woman and you married her best friend.

Her answer might be, so what? The fact that you might be a good man doesn’t make her any less wary of men.

“there are white people who mean well, and there are good white men out there”

I have one! They do exist.

“And after reading all the stuff on this blog, why would it surprise you that some other black women would give her a hard time?”

Yeah, they think we’re crazy for marrying WM. They eventually come to accept it, or simply shut up about it. But it’s more because they’ve decided that this particular WM is an exception to the rule, not that the rule has changed.

“they must not think we’re human. they must think we’re some kind of subhuman alternative not on the level of other females”

Yes, they do. It’s amazing, but they do. Although some of them see ALL women as subhuman.

The “pink on the inside” joke is a classic. The BW equivalent to the Asian “sideways coochie” theory.

Do not assume that most BM (or men of any other race, for that matter) think more highly of you.

The way that both WM and BM here behave towards BW and speak about BW is absolutely appalling and I find it beyond belief that BW aren’t protesting in the street to stop this abuse.

The truth is: a lot (most) BW are so brainwashed that they do not believe that they deserve better treatment. They have been conditioned to think that this is normal. It is astonishing but true.

Do you realize that there are BW out there who dance to objectifying and degrading songs about BW?

DO you realize that BW are more likely to be abused than any other race of women and are the least likely to report it?

Do you realize that if they report it, crimes against them are the least likely to be prosecuted and receive the lightest sentences?

Do you realize that if a BW goes missing nobody cares? Perhaps they think that it’s a case of “good riddance to bad rubbish”.

Do you realize that BW are the most likely to face street harassment?

To truly realize EXACTLY HOW BAD IT IS, you just have to imagine if this situation would even be possible for, say, Finnish women. If any Finnish man was stupid enough to come up with a song called “Finnish women are bitches and hoes” do you think anyone would play it in their club? Finnish women, after recovering from shock, would run him down and put him out of his misery immediately!

But if a BW is attacked, objectified, or violated BW are SO FREAKING STUPID that they ask, “What was she wearing? Maybe it was how she carried herself? Maybe it was her body type? Maybe she was in the wrong neighborhood? Maybe she’s just a slut/whore/prostitute/bitch/snob. MAYBE SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT!”

Finnish women can go anywhere they want! They can wear whatever they want! They can walk around NUDE if they want and expect the guys to keep in line.
Why? Because they are highly valued and respected. And because they, AS A GROUP, don’t put up with that crap.

When I was living in Germany (for over 10 years!) I was never harassed on the street, never had degrading things said to me, never been subjected to an objectifying culture. NEVER. It’s so rare there as to be a non-issue. If a man there gets a reputation as a “player” women will avoid him like the plague, they certainly wouldn’t flock to him like inane pigeons! Why would any woman in her right mind sleep with a man who had mistreated another woman? Who had children he wasn’t supporting. Who called women “females” and referred to them by their body parts instead of their names. Who didn’t bother getting a job because he had decided it was easier to live off of the women he was using.

Are they stupid or just insane?

Women regularly sun-bathed topless on the riverbank in the city I lived in. Right next to the promenade. Men would occasionally glance in their direction (they are human males, after all) but wouldn’t THINK of saying anything rude or inappropriate to them. Why should the sight of naked female skin cause men to lose control of their pitiful minds and break loose like animals? Grow up! Take a cold shower and learn to control yourselves!

Side note: interestingly, the visiting American tourist also didn’t bother the women. They were responding to the culture around them that said that such behaviour wasn’t respectable. One American friend whose eyes almost fell out of his head at the sight had a German male stranger actually hit him over the head and tell him to “behave”.

Men who act like “players” are not only not glorified, they’re not taken seriously by men or women. Women are not referred to as whores even if they sleep with a different man every week. Just because they don’t want to marry her doesn’t mean that they’ll vilify her. They wouldn’t dare because OTHER WOMEN WOULDN’T LET THEM.

There is also no worshiping of virginity with the inherent degrading of non-virgins as immoral sluts. The dark ages are over, girls!

Why is it acceptable here? What kind of sick, misogynistic country is this?

I have a daughter and all I know is: I am not staying here for more than a few years. I don’t want her to be poisoned by the atmosphere here. And it truly is poisonous for ALL WOMEN but especially the black ones.

@Black&German…
You are comparing apples and oranges and whilst I agree to some extent that AA women might have been brainwashed by the very racist system which has institutionalised a lack of self worth for them, it is not spread across the board to all BW

Many times I hear black AA women say… go to Europe, it is different there and to that I largely say.. HOGWASH!.

The major difference is that many AA Women are not tuned to European signals of racism.
Americans are in your face, Europeans tend to be passive aggressive about it.

I’ve read blogs and blogsof AA women saying, oh European men love black women, they are on you the minute you get there and they are not shy about showing it.
Yep! There is a reason for it.

It’s called ‘Black women are easy stereotype’ and also.. ‘foreigners are looking for a holiday romance’.
Please let’s not paint Europe as a bastion of open-mindedness, it isn’t.

When I come to the US, I get propositioned by WM in America frequently, the further south I go the more it happens. The minute I open my mouth and my accent comes out, that’s it, WM come a flockin’.
It’s because they think I am culturally risk free. That my blackness is different from the blackness they are surrounded by.

the norms of one country differs from others. I dare you to go sunbathing topless in the UK or Czech republic and think that people will not comment. Germans are known for being nudist and having an open attitude to sex. The US is not.

And then there is class.
A lot of the behaviour you are describing is exhibited by the working class.
The percentage of working class black folk in the US, far out numbers the percentage of working class people in Germany
and then we have a higher percentage of complete underclass.

Those people for whom hope just doesn’t exist. If people don’t care about themselves how in the heck do you expect them to care about you?.

Prodigy released a song in the UK called ‘smack my bitch up’ erm girls were dancing to it and it’s a classic. Sorry I don’t buy this.

Roman Polanski who raped a 13year old girl is being celebrated and you have feminists defending him, wasn’t he living in France for decades.

Europe has it’s abusive practices against women. Europeans are just absolute experts at hiding it, or producing reams and reams of useless legislation which allows perps to get away with it.

“It’s called ‘Black women are easy stereotype’ and also.. ‘foreigners are looking for a holiday romance’.
Please let’s not paint Europe as a bastion of open-mindedness, it isn’t.”

My point wasn’t that BW in Europe are not treated as “exotics” or “rassig” (I’d already posted about that phenomenon). But that European women in Europe (at least northern Europe — I’ve never been south of Toulouse) are treated with more respect than American women in America. A foreigner’s experience will always be different, of course. And the UK is a bit of an outlier when it comes to sexual norms in northern Europe. Perhaps due to the heavy American influence there? Or perhaps America is tainted by it’s pre-colonial British past?
“Europe has it’s abusive practices against women.”

At least in Germany and Scandinavian countries I’d have to say that the women there are more liberated (as in, free to live their lives as they wish without fear of retribution) than here. When I was living in Germany I found it a bit sexist but I’ve been shocked by the sheer depravity of American culture.
I have not found a large difference in class with this behaviour. It’s a broad-spectrum problem. Men screaming at me from their cars are just as likely to be driving a $40K pickup or BMW 5-series as a beat-up old-timer.

“The minute I open my mouth and my accent comes out, that’s it, WM come a flockin’.
It’s because they think I am culturally risk free. That my blackness is different from the blackness they are surrounded by.”

I actually have a similar experience here because I have a bit of an “international/faux British” accent. Sometimes I speak with an American drawl or a bit of convincing “valley girl” but if I let my guard down it comes leaking out. And sometimes I use the wrong words like rubbish, bin, lass, etc. And I think my speech has the “wrong” cadence; it sounds “off” even if my accent is spot-on.

I say things like “spot-on”. LOL!

I’ve been following the Polanski saga in the German media online and I’m just as perplexed by the schizophrenic behaviour as you are. It’s inexcusable.

Thankfully, there is a small bastion of hope (mostly middle/upper-middle class professional BW like my relatives) who are holding out. But they’re quiet. Perhaps they don’t want to be seen to be dogging on BM?

Sister, I can relate. I live in the DC area and I think that the men in here are extrememly perverted and disgusting. I have to deal with losers harassing me on the streets, at my job, at school and on the metro. I’m 19 years old, 5’3, I have dark skin, long braids, my breasts and butt are big and I have a small waist. I get bother by all races of me but its mostly Black and Hispanic men. I did a paper about this for my freshman year of high school. This has been happening to me since I was at least 11 years old. I used to think that I was ugly and fat because these men were saying these nasty things to me. I went theough a whole phase of covering up my body in sweats but it didn’t work, more men hit on me. It happens to me on a daily basis.

I live in Arlington almost close to Tyson’s Corner where my university is. It’s a mixed area but the majority are White. Most of the time the White men just look at me or ask me where I’m from or say that I’m “exotic”. I’m Dominican, Jamaican, and Puerto Rican.

I was friends with a White guy. I had a crush on him for the longest time. He was a very nice a sweet guy and I always had fun with him. He had asked me out on a date. We went out had a good time and he tried to make some serious moves on me. He wanted to have sex with me, but I told him no.He had cornered me and called me all sorts of names like bitch,cunt,niggerbitch,spicnigger, africanwetback. Than he just hit me and left.

He told his friends and teammates,hey all play lacrosse, that I had sex with him, which I never did. And he made up all of these lies about me saying that I was a sex fiend and all of this. I’ve heard Whites guys at my school ask me all sorts of nasty questions and stuff.

Mind you all of these White men are from wealthy backgrounds and they are all preppy,frat brothers or lacrosse players.

“I live in the DC area and I think that the men in here are extremely perverted and disgusting.”

Disgusting and perverted is not the word for it. Too mild. I’m in DC a lot because my parents live in PG county, so I know what you’re talking about.

Yes, class and race are not a barrier to profanity. Most of the men I associate with are middle/upper-middle class and well-educated. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, and other professionals. And they still are capable of acting like complete dogs. They can usually put up a good front but every once in a while someone “slips up” and complete bile comes out of their mouth. I call it the “werewolf-effect”.

That’s why my theory is that it is the generally racist and misogynistic culture in America which causes this. Especially as I know Asian, Native American, East Indian, and Hispanic women who have to deal with the same stuff, just different insults.

I want to also note that my husband (who is white) has heard WM colleagues say truly vile things about minority women (mostly BW). Especially when they were out on business trips. He called them on it a few times so they stopped in his presence (especially after they found out he was married to a BW) but they’re probably still saying it when he’s not around. Mind you, most of these men are business admins and engineers, many with post-graduate degrees.

@Black&German:
I like your style’‘the UK is a bit of an outlier when it comes to sexual norms in northern Europe. Perhaps due to the heavy American influence there? Or perhaps America is tainted by it’s pre-colonial British past?’

The UK is prudish outwardly (hence the famous phrase ‘no sex pls, we are British’) but internally they are debauched.

Northern Europe is a heck of a lot more open ‘body-wise’ but also to some degree a heck of a lot more racist.

RE: the middle/upper class black women holding out. I believe it’s because a lot of these things do not happen to them. The env. they move in does not condone these things. It is out of their sphere.

I mean, men don’t exactly shout abusive stuff at you in the hamptons. Or if they do it’s in the privacy of their own summer home.
Upper class abuse is better hidden, because people have a lot to lose if they are branded brutes in public.

My ex-boyfriend was from Bristol so I heard a lot of the “No sex please, we are British” stuff. And he couldn’t help joking, “Just close your eyes and think of England.”

I must say, you really can’t beat British humor.

And he loved to “take the pis$”, too. I traveled in a very “British” circle for a while and my general impression is that they treat their enemies with cold civility and their friends with warm rudeness.

“Northern Europe is a heck of a lot more open ‘body-wise’ but also to some degree a heck of a lot more racist.”

What do you mean which is it? I thought I was clear, maybe not. I have said all along there is no way I can even pretend to know what it is like being black. I said the negative attitudes I have experienced since I have been married is from white people. Most of the problems my wife has encountered has been from black women. The last thing my wife’s friend said to her, “I can’t believe you married that white MF’er.”

You said you dropped a friend because they were in an abusive relationship. That person would still be my friend, no matter what decisions they made in their personal life, but that is just me. I have a friend whose wife has slept with every man that will crawl into bed with her. No matter what she does he is still my friend. A couple of friends I went to school with can’t seem to kick the drugs. I don’t have to get down and wallow in that mess with them, but they are still my friends.

I know black women that say, because of past experiences, will never date a black man again. I know very little about black culture (I’m repeating myself) and the day I die I will not know much more than I know now. I didn’t marry all black people. I married a beautiful woman thay happens to be black. I have never been married before. I was forty-six when we married. The only thing I would change, I wish I had met her thirty years ago.

I really don’t care what people think of me. I sleep well at night. I have never mistreated anyone or looked down on them because of race, etc. The one thing that ticks me off is when someone tries to tell me how I REALLY feel or what I REALLY think.

Black&German Says:My ex-boyfriend was from Bristol so I heard a lot of the “No sex please, we are British” stuff. And he couldn’t help joking, “Just close your eyes and think of England.”

I must say, you really can’t beat British humor.

And he loved to “take the pis$”, too. I traveled in a very “British” circle for a while and my general impression is that they treat their enemies with cold civility and their friends with warm rudeness.

Us Brits like to take the pi$$ out of eachother.
I don’t know about soul’s experiences with us Brits. To me, us unlike most yanks have class, wit and are little bit cheeky!!! 😉
The U.K. is un-PC and I love it!

I thought I made it clear why I was asking because I quoted you, so I’ll do it again..

You said:‘As I have said before, not one black man has ever said one negative thing to me about dating or being marrried to a black woman. It’s all been from white people’.

Your second post then says:

‘People that give my wife a hard time, since we’ve been married, are other black women’.

That’s why I asked which one is it?

Which one is it?
P.S. I never tried to tell you what you really felt, what I did was tell you or your wife might be perceived from a relationship perspective by your her best friend.

But now I will tell you that you are in complete denial.
You have stated in previous posts how you worked to overcome your racism and now you are stating in this post that you have never looked down on someone because of their race.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and contradicting yourself.

Then if you have never stated that. I take it back and apologise for attributing someone else’s quote to yoi.

If I have a friend who married a KKK member and they were happy together, I would be happy for that person. I might not be around them but I’d be happy for them lol.

As I have stated previously, I cannot be around people being abused, I let go of my friend who was being abused by her husband because she had normalised the behaviour. When I tried to provide help, she would silence me and say I didn’t know what I was talking about, her young son had started to adopt his father’s behaviour and started hitting her in public.

I called time on it, when her son started hitting me (he was about 6yrs old) and she said ‘it’s ok, it’s cos he sees his father doing it’).

But people are different, I wasn’t trying to add different experiences on to your wife’s experiences, I was simply saying that could be where her best friend was coming from.

Why would you want me to call you names?. Sorry mate!. If you don’t deserve to be called something.. I won’t.
I don’t randomly label people, I don’t think it’s fair, and I don’t randomly accuse people of being skin heads or having swastika’s on their ass, especially if I haven’t seen said ass.

Soul,
Chill on Rick. He’s cool. I think you’re confusing him with other posters. Trust me, there are enough racists posting on here that you don’t need to waste your breath on him.

“You said you dropped a friend because they were in an abusive relationship. That person would still be my friend, no matter what decisions they made in their personal life, but that is just me.”

That’s because you’re a sentimental, faithful, pathetic slob like myself. I must brag that I have had one complete turn-around success story to my name that has convinced me that it can be worth it to stick around.

What I won’t tolerate from my friends is their hurting other people. A male friend of mine admitted that he cheated on his wonderful wife and left her and his children. I dropped him like a brick.

“If you have a friend that marries someone that’s good to them and treats them with respect, why wouldn’t you be happy for them?”

I would.
My Christian Serbian friend is married to a Turkish Muslim man and you should have seen the scene that caused. But he’s cool (if anything, she’s a lucky woman to have him) so I’m happy for her. And it turns out that he’s not going to make her wear a headscarf after, all. LOL!

“To me british humour is cruel and passive aggressive.
Taking the pi$$ really is just saying things to make other people angry and then having a go at them for getting angry.”

Of course it’s cruel and passive aggressive. But it’s still funny. I like British humor because it’s so equal-opportunity. Nobody and nothing is spared. There’s a complete lack of reverence that I find refreshing.

And the sheer dryness of it is fascinating. Most German wit is ironic but they don’t have the same concept of sarcastic and sardonic wit. It took me a bit to catch on but I’m a quick study.

My husband has it perfected and it’s one of the things that attracted me to him in the first place. How in the world did this German guy end up with British humor? Answer: Way too much Monty Python. He can quote Life of Brian in it’s entirety.

Abagond:
“Just curious: can you think of anyone famous who has your sort of accent?”

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell no! No tats on this ass. Now that you have explained the situation with your friend, I do agree with you. Your friend should have considered her son and got him out of that environment. For some women, and for reasons I can’t understand they choose to stay in an abusive relationship. My father was a good provider, he didn’t drink, at times he would fly into a rage and strike my mother. I begged her to leave him, but she would not. I swore then I would never hit a woman. I think in that day and time a woman was probably considered a failure if she left her husband. I don’t know, just what I think.

“As I have stated previously, I cannot be around people being abused, I let go of my friend who was being abused by her husband because she had normalised the behaviour. When I tried to provide help, she would silence me and say I didn’t know what I was talking about, her young son had started to adopt his father’s behaviour and started hitting her in public.

I called time on it, when her son started hitting me (he was about 6yrs old) and she said ‘it’s ok, it’s cos he sees his father doing it’). ”

Okay.

I’d definitely draw a line in the sand for her if children are involved or she’s excusing his behaviour. I had a friend whose husband cheated on her habitually but she never excused his behaviour. She just put up with it.
I stuck by her until she FINALLY divorced him. My comment that, “Do you realize that your daughters are seeing his behaviour and learning that that is the way men should treat them?” finally did the marriage in. She’s now happily married to a very nice man.

Now, I understand. I have never had children. Hmmm, if I had been a true friend to my buddy I guess I should have tried to convince to leave his wife, for the sake of his children. His son is thirty and gone. His daughter is twenty-three, and I understand she is a lot like her mother. I do understand,now.

Black&German says:
I would like to make the following warning to BW out there:

Most American WM do think that you are not deserving of respect.

Do not assume that most BM (or men of any other race, for that matter) think more highly of you.

The way that both WM and BM here behave towards BW and speak about BW is absolutely appalling and I find it beyond belief that BW aren’t protesting in the street to stop this abuse.

The truth is: a lot (most) BW are so brainwashed that they do not believe that they deserve better treatment. They have been conditioned to think that this is normal. It is astonishing but true.

Do you realize that there are BW out there who dance to objectifying and degrading songs about BW?

DO you realize that BW are more likely to be abused than any other race of women and are the least likely to report it?

Do you realize that if they report it, crimes against them are the least likely to be prosecuted and receive the lightest sentences?

Do you realize that if a BW goes missing nobody cares? Perhaps they think that it’s a case of “good riddance to bad rubbish”.

Do you realize that BW are the most likely to face street harassment?

To truly realize EXACTLY HOW BAD IT IS, you just have to imagine if this situation would even be possible for, say, Finnish women. If any Finnish man was stupid enough to come up with a song called “Finnish women are bitches and hoes” do you think anyone would play it in their club? Finnish women, after recovering from shock, would run him down and put him out of his misery immediately!

laromana says,
Black&German,
Thanks for this very insightful and frank post about the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that affects ALL BW in America. I, too, believe that ALL BW in the US need to come together and agree to DESTROY ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in American media/culture. It does anger me when I see SOME BW supporting men (OF ANY RACE) who DEMEAN, DEGRADE, and DISRESPECT BW. This CAN’T CONTINUE.

ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS need to KNOW that ALL BW (and their supporters) will do WHATEVER it takes to PUNISH them/their ANTI-BW ACTIONS/ATTITUDES.

I would also like to see PRO-BW men/women of EVERY RACE join in support of BW in our fight against ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in America. If PRO-BW men and women came together to OPPOSE/DESTROY (legally, socially, using all available means) ALL sources of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE, we would see a change in the way BW are treated in American culture/media.

I know this is a very DAUNTING/ONGOING battle, but gaining RESPECT for the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW (in American media/culture) is WORTH IT and will end up benefitting the treatment of BW EVERYWHERE.

@Black&GErman, beat you to it, I already apologised and took what I said back when ramlinrick pointed out that I mgiht have misquoted him

@Ramblinrick, you have to remember that before a man actually hits a woman, he has usually spemt time removing her from her closest friends, and devaluing her self esteem, the physical violence is nothing compared to the emotional scars.
He would have worked her over and over until even she will not be satisfied until he hits her, because he would convinve that he hits her out of love.

It;’s psychological and it’s terrifying.
I was the only friend her husband would allow around the house, I stopped going to their house when he would use my attributes to be-little her.

I’m sorry, but I’m just not that kind of girl who thinks that is a compliment or who thinks it’s cool.
If I didn’t remove her from my life, I would have ended up doing something traumatic to him.

And therein lies the problem Rick, this overlord setup benefits whites, even if the bulk of whites don’t get the same perks as their rich/powerful, it does give the vast majority an advantage for perpetuating said system. An ingrained sense of smugness and superiority scares most into varying degrees of hostility, this is why many cry down those who question “Whiteness”.

I strongly believe that this will be only for a while for nothing lasts forever no matter how much one tries to maintain it, and actions taken to maintain these ideals will ultimately spell bad times for this group.

I read some of your comments and you seem like a genuine human person who is free of all that but I’m afraid you are part of a small minority.

And I’m so sick of hearing about these so called “ghetto” women and even other black women tossing these women under the bus, no one comes to their defense, there are a lot of gems in there but its fashionable to put them down. If I heard a bunch of oranges, talk about how green apples suck because they’re green apples, and there were red apples nodding in agreement saying “Yeah, those green apples suck alright, good thing I’m a red apple”, it begs me asking the question, who the hell told oranges that they were so great? Surprise surprise, other oranges, and red apples should be ashamed for trying to appease them. Poor person does not equal bad person(or men would steer clear of Asian and Eastern European mail order brides). I’m tired of everyone accepting one group of peoples image as to what supposed to be normal and human, its just sad. Aaah end of rant lol.

this overlord setup benefits whites…it does give the vast majority an advantage for perpetuating said system.

Blue collar jobs (factories) starting in the 70s were sent overseas. Starting also in the 70s but accelerating over the years much blue collar work (Landscaping, construction, meat packing….) were “in sourced” by hiring cheaper foreign, often (without papers) labor. Starting in the 90s after the defense industry downsizing and the resultant relaxation towards security in IT work.. jobs were both in sourced (Often Chinese and Indian labor..) or out sourced (largely the same although occasionally Eastern European labor has been used.

Overwhelmingly the decisions to all of the above were made by whites. (Believe or not the late Reverend Abernathy and Caesar Chavez were originally against undocumented labor….)

These collective actions have certainly benefited a small segment of predominantly (and wealthy) white people, but I would question whether modern neo-liberalism has benefited white Americans (or Black or Latino Americans…)

I can’t tell you what it’s like to be a white man. I can’t walk around in another man’s body and make comparisons. I can say the middle class in this country is all but gone. Uncle Milton is right on point with his post(220). We are all asked to make sacrifices, cut back on gas, electricity, etc. I can’t remember the name of the CEO of some Wahl St firm, he spent over a million dollars to remodel his office. He had a $14,000.00 trash can in his office.

I have been a union electrician for 31 yrs. With this trade it is feast or famine,and for the last eight years it has been famine. I have not worked since Dec. 08. I was hoping to retire at 55, but after the last 8 years I can’t see that happening. What did Bush say, “Wahl Street got drunk. And it just happened to be on my watch.” What an idiot. Well, there i go again, completely off the subject. I’ll be quiet now.

“RE: the middle/upper class black women holding out. I believe it’s because a lot of these things do not happen to them. The env. they move in does not condone these things. It is out of their sphere.”

But shouldn’t it be precisely those relatively privileged BW calling for justice and equality? Isn’t it part of the responsibility that comes with power to speak up for those less powerful?

“And therein lies the problem Rick, this overlord setup benefits whites, even if the bulk of whites don’t get the same perks as their rich/powerful, it does give the vast majority an advantage for perpetuating said system. An ingrained sense of smugness and superiority scares most into varying degrees of hostility, this is why many cry down those who question “Whiteness”.”

I agree. This is precisely why WW do not complain about the abuse non-WW receive. They do not perceive us as their “sisters” fighting the good fight but rather as the competition. American feminism was for WW only.
I’ve heard and read more and more WW making nasty comments about WM marrying non-WW, for example.

Black&German:But shouldn’t it be precisely those relatively privileged BW calling for justice and equality? Isn’t it part of the responsibility that comes with power to speak up for those less powerful?

AAhhh but there are so many reasons for this:

1- out of sight, out of mind:
How can people prevent something they don’t even know exists? It’s not in their realm, they are not close to it.
As a career person, I don’t own a TV, I wake up, head to the gym, go to work, finish work head back to the gym, pick up a lil dinner or head over to ‘the dudes’ house for some adult fun, or go to a show or go home to study.
The only reason I even notice what’s going on nowadays is because I stopped driving. otherwise I could possibly be oblivious.

2) you forget the social env we live in. (especially in the US).
you have the dream, and the ‘pull yourself up by your jockstrap mentality’.
We no longer live in a ‘I am my brother’s keeper’ society.
People work hard to get what they have but sometimes they are also lucky, many people are middle class but are working hard to maintain what they have, the only thing some have to give is money, when what is required is time.
Do you personally not have enough things on your plate at the moment? do you think you could juggle some more. It’s hard.

3) E’rybody got issues:
Those middle/upper class peeps have their own deeper issues. Which they are constantly battling, the fight wears some people out.

4) Fear:
What if people view me like I’m showing off, what if the people I’m trying to change decide I’m rubbing their faces in it and I get shot or stabbed?

5) People are different:
Many upper class people accept that people are different they focus on improving themselves, if you approach them they’ll help if they can but let’s face it even many middle/upper class people (across the board) are living paycheck to paychek. they earn more and have bigger mortgages because they want to put themselves in a better situation.

@Black&German.
I’ll never forget listening to an interview with the rapper ‘Redman’.
I remember him laughing when they asked him about a bunch of middle class folk who were trying to improve the hood and encouraging rich folks to move back to it.

you know what he said?.
He said, do you think people who live in the hood want to live in the hood?. Everybody is trying everyway they can to get the heck out!. Whatever it takes.

We sometimes measure things differently from others. For us, we have reached a point in our lives where we think, it doesn’t matter if you live in a one room shack with nothing, just have respect, treat others well..but we say that because we are NOT living in one room shacks.

People living in one room shacks don’t want to live there, and they will do whatever it takes to leave. We might think education education, blah blah blah..
But it doesn’t always work or at least it might take a few generations for it to filter down.
Why wold many people want to wait for that?.
We have one life. one life. There are no do-overs, no repeats, no starting again.

For some people, it means taking whatever risk you can to be something, it means selling your soul to whatever is available and once you do that, then you are worthless and everyone else is worthless too and that makes you treat them like it.

@gen‘And I’m so sick of hearing about these so called “ghetto” women and even other black women tossing these women under the bus, no one comes to their defense, there are a lot of gems in there but its fashionable to put them down. If I heard a bunch of oranges, talk about how green apples suck because they’re green apples, and there were red apples nodding in agreement saying “Yeah, those green apples suck alright, good thing I’m a red apple”, it begs me asking the question, who the hell told oranges that they were so great?’

I had to quote you in your entirety. because I agree completely.

Since when did ghetto = bad.
Ghetto doesn’t even = uncouth.

Most upper class women I know are vulgar, uncouth, immoral and lack any type of manners.
You know what they call them?
They call them: Bold, new women, modern women, take no nonsense women, high profile e.t.c.

I see what you’re saying. I especially understand about the lack of time or the angst that our efforts won’t be appreciated. As a very light-skinned BW I’m often on the receiving end of “Why do you even care?”.

“1- out of sight, out of mind:
The only reason I even notice what’s going on nowadays is because I stopped driving. otherwise I could possibly be oblivious.”

Yeah, I just can’t shake the European habit of walking everywhere. I’m loathe to get in my car and drive one block down the street.
“2) We no longer live in a ‘I am my brother’s keeper’ society.”

This one really gets to me. I guess living in Europe for so long has changed my views on this dramatically. Let’s just say: health care.

As for ghetto, I don’t think it even means “from the ghetto” anymore. It’s more a description of antisocial behavior, as in “acting ghetto”. I also know people (relatives) that I greatly admire and respect who are “from the ghetto” but do not “act ghetto”. Perhaps they feel obligated to behave particularly well precisely BECAUSE they are “from the ghetto”.

I wonder if this is why I put so much effort into my decorum, propriety, and outward appearance. Is it the “black tax”? I can’t just be pretty, I must be polished. I can’t just be intelligent, I must be genius. I can’t just be athletic, I must lead the team. I can’t just be neat, I must be elegant.

And still the average WW could stand next to me in jeans and unwashed hair and compare favorably.

In a similar way, my best friend is a WW from a trailer park (although she no longer lives in one) and grew up on welfare. But she’s hardly “trailer trash”.

I am disinclined to refer to ANYBODY as “trash” as I believe that all human life is sacred, so that title grates on me in particular. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve caught myself saying it once or twice but I’m working to purge myself of it.

Race privilege and class privilege are two different things. Just because some white people have more power and privilege than you does not mean you enjoy no privileges as a white person compared to blacks.

For example, you are less likely to be thrown out of work and more likely to find something new more quickly when you do – and get paid more on top of it all compared to a black person with the very same education and experience. Those are all forms of race privilege that have nothing to do with class.

I know. You live in London, right? I’ve been there 4 times and loved it. I have friends in Bournemouth and Cambridge that I visit regularly and I always spend a few days in London while I’m there.
Amazing Asian food.
It’s not very kid-friendly though, so it’ll probably be a few years before I go back.

I almost took a job offer in Cambridge from my company (internal transfer) but the weather was just too dreary, unfortunately. Other than that, I really liked it.

*sigh* I used to cycle everywhere in Germany. I really miss that. Working out used to be integrated into my daily life and now I have to make an artificial effort to stay fit. It’s easy to see why Americans are spreading horizontally…

Re: the cake. Actually, I was just teased myself. My cruel husband and son ate the entire thing. All I managed to get was one measly slice. And there were extra chocolate chips in it, too!

I’ve noticed a definite race-privilege since marrying. I now have a very German name and European resume.

When I returned to America neither my husband nor I had employment and decided that whoever got hired first would go out to work and the other would stay home (we have a nearly identical occupation and income). Some of my (equally qualified) black relatives coached us on what to expect: that it would take weeks for the first reply, that the offers might not be that generous and we’d have to bargain, that moving expenses would not be paid, etc.
The response was so fast we nearly received whiplash. Sometimes we’d send out a resume and receive a call for a telephone interview WITHIN HOURS, despite the infamous recession. My husband was hired to an excellent position within 2 weeks. My relatives couldn’t believe it. But my parents’ white friends found it commonplace. They’d had the same experience.

My German name and crisp European accent mean that when I call people they picture a tall blond and nearly fall off of their chairs when they are faced in person with a short black woman. I’ve actually had service personnel look behind me when I answer the door and ask if “Mrs. so-and-so” is at home, as if I was the help.

Just recently I called a mechanics office to do an emergency inspection (we were having trouble with registering our vehicle) and the man on the phone was SUPER helpful. Even offered to come to work early to fit me in last minute. When I showed up I swear he just stared like: you have got to be kidding me. He was still polite but a bit deflated.

So, I suppose I profit from race-privilege indirectly. It’s much easier for me to get my foot in the door.

I have to agree that all of those things are TERRIBLE things to say to ANY woman.

Also, is she sure she was saying ALL of those things because shes black?? i mean, alot of those things could have been just bad manners in general, not nessacarily racism. And, also black people make sexual slurs toward white people to, i mean, i can’t tell you how many black guys have insinuated that i give head because i’m white!!!

1) The best thing about black women is their asses. Is it true you like anal?

2)I prefer black women because white women are such prudes.

3) I like black women. Just not the ghetto ones.

I won’t paste the rest from the list, I’m just curious if you think that when someone specifically states the word black in a derogatory statement, if there can be any doubt at all that they really mean erm.. well … you know.. ‘black’.

I’m curious. how they could have been saying those things about ‘ALL’ women.

This is usually the reaction that white women give when a black women complains specifically about harrassment from White men. It’s almost like they can’t wrap their heads around it and thus come up with some ridiculous tangent or reason.

Leah Says:I have to agree that all of those things are TERRIBLE things to say to ANY woman.

Also, is she sure she was saying ALL of those things because shes black?? i mean, alot of those things could have been just bad manners in general, not nessacarily racism. And, also black people make sexual slurs toward white people to, i mean, i can’t tell you how many black guys have insinuated that i give head because i’m white!!!

laromana says,
Leah, although the comments noted on this post are “terrible things to say to ANY woman”, there is an added level of OFFENSE because of the HISTORIC ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that influences the American WM who have directed these comments at BW. Also these comments are CLEARLY RACIST because they promote ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that attack the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW ALONE (not WW/NON-BW).

I’m not an idiot. If a man says something to a woman and refers to her as BLACK then obviously he was diecting it to a black girl. Thats why I said not ALL of those things could have been said because she was black. Let me explain that sentnce to you in simple terms: not EVERY comment in the post could ONLY be directed to a black woman, a few of the comments could be made to ANY WOMEN!

I wasn’t trying to play down it racial aspect of those comments made to her, I’m sorry that it came out that way. I was just trying to acknowledge the severeity of those comments and that if someone said those things to me I would have sucker punched them in the gonads! (hehe) and I can totally see why they were even more offense to her.

than you does not mean you enjoy no privileges as a white person compared to blacks.

My post wasn’t about comparing whites to blacks…it’s about what’s happening in the job field. It’s not a Black/White thing it’s a foreign born/non foreign born thing. In California, it is a very clear reality and the decisions are being made at the top (mostly) by white guys.

when i was little i wasn’t allowed to join my friend’s country club, i was only allowed to visit when accompanied by her. ofcourse at the time i didn’t know they had a policy that black and jews weren’t allowed to become members, i just thought as usual there were just alot of white folks who happened to be there and the only black folks were the cooks and maids…didn’t catch on till years later when someone sued the club for discrimination

And for your attempt at defense of this behaviour as ‘oh across the board, you will agree that it should be at least half of the comments)

Please just list the comments by number, which can be applied to all women and are not specifically targeted at black women.

laromana,
soul,
I agree with your above responses.

We BW know, from HISTORY/REAL LIFE experience, that American society has ALWAYS promoted a UNIQUE brand of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that DEMEANS/DEGRADES/DISRESPECTS BW and insures that men of ALL RACES consider us (the MOST) UNDESIRABLE/UNWORTHY of being pursued for SERIOUS dating relationships or MARRIAGE.

This is why MOST American men (of ALL RACES) treat BW as if we are the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY.
This also has/does affect our relationships with ALL men and our overall marriage rates.

Black&German’s list of (ANTI-BW) “stuff WM say to BW” CLEARLY illustrates this mindset. OBVIOUSLY, WW/OTHER NON-BW are not being subjected to the SAME type of mistreatment that is RESERVED for BW or SUFFERRING the SAME CONSEQUENCES that result from it.

@laroma…
I mean it’s not rocket science is it?
The post is about the things ehite men say to black women.

And after all the comments about the way’s and wherefore’s… A white women comes in and says..

‘hey are you sure?’
I mean you know those are just bad things that happen to all women..
look even I have been stereotyped by black guys!!!..’

It’s a typical and oft repeated thing that many white women do when it comes to black women especially where anything to do with sex or interaction with white men is concerned..

They will always question you. are you sure about that.. oh no the underlying/unsaid thing is: oh you are making a big deal out of it?

I mean black guys say dodgy stuffto me to so it evens it out. so why is it a big deal?.
They refuse to actually just accept that white men can specifically target us, after all we are supposed to be a last resort?

If you ask them to explain why they are questioning you….
They will say stare at you and act like you are obtuse.
Then they will abuse you and you better not respond, becasue then ‘you are just aggressive’.

If you don’t rise to the bait and just calmly question ask them to please explain themselves, they’ll either walk awy in a huff or they will grab the next white person and say within your earshot, damn she is such a Beyotch.

If that doesn’t work, they’ll try the cry baby routine or sometimes they’ll turn to the nearest black guy with the crybaby routine and say you are bullying them when they simply tried to be friendly, or understanding..

the phrase.. ‘I am not a racist’, I’ve never said anything racist’

YEt they use constant racist tactics day in day out and expect you to just accept it.

I’m still interested in Leah producing this list which has to definitely be at least half to justify the questioning…

Race privilege and class privilege are two different things. Just because some white people have more power and privilege than you does not mean you enjoy no privileges as a white person compared to blacks.

For example, you are less likely to be thrown out of work and more likely to find something new more quickly when you do – and get paid more on top of it all compared to a black person with the very same education and experience. Those are all forms of race privilege that have nothing to do with class.

abagond,

I am not as naive as you think. I know even though I am not rich and powerful I still have certain “privileges” as being white, even though I do not agree with how this bullshit works. I was NOT comparing whites to blacks.

Now, talking about hiring, more pay because I am white, and so forth. I really cannot comment, and this is why. I am a union electrician. I have never turned in a resume, and I was twenty-one the last time I filled out a job application. I get my job through a union hiring hall. If I am out of work I sign an out of work list. As jobs become available, they go down the list putting people to work. EVERYONE makes the same pay, the scale according to the local working agreement(contract). I do not doubt what you are saying to be the truth, I know it is. I’m just saying I don’t have to deal with all of that to get a job.

Any animosity or malice in my heart is for the low life motherfuckers of the previous administration in the whitehouse. The only people I HATE are Republicans.

4 a former girlfriend used to get compared to Andie MacDowell
6 Fairly common expression by belligerent guys (often in a state of drunkenness…)
7 I have been told by white women that this (or some variant) has been used on them.
9 ditto
8 Once by an Asian guy on a friend of mine.. although I think it was tongue in cheek.. it still pissed her off.
12 I have both heard of and seen this happen
14 Usually the phrase is “stuck up” so admittedly not the same thing, but close.

@ Black and German:
I agree with you that white American men and men in gernal in America do NOT repsect black women. I also highly agree with you that whenever a black woman is attacked, the blame goes to her.

This is about the cracker barrel incident and the comments are just absolutely deplorable(and uniquely American).

@Soul
Racism in America is covert, while racism in Europe is in your face and frankly, I prefer the latter because at least I know what you think of my race.
But I do agree with you that white women will always question black women whenver we go through disrepsectful behaviro with white men.

Ok, I’m going to have to look at the list again but I’m on a blackberry right now and it takes like 4 years to the top so I will have to list the ones I feel white women are subjected to but I WAS NOT trying to justify it. And I don’t think that she is over reacting I was just stating that I can kind of see where she’s coming from (although not the being a black women part).I think some people on here (Soul) need to calm down, like I said, I wasn’t playing it down. I feel for her, and other women(black and otherwise) who have been through this.

someone telling me i look like halle berry is insulting because other than us both having brown skin, we look nothing alike. (our skin isn’t even the same damn color) so for someone to tell me that is ridiculous and to me it says they don’t know any other way to relate to me as a bw other than comparing me to some random black woman celebrity who i look nothing like

You’re way to smart for me. I get it. Substitute white for black. If only it were that simple. In my time I can’t recall hearing anyone talk to a white woman that way, and I am thinking really really hard here. My opinions are based mainly on the questions other white men ask me about dating/married to a black woman. I mean I have never anyone walk up to a white woman,”Oh. such beautiful hair, may I touch it.” C’mon now.

“someone telling me i look like halle berry is insulting because other than us both having brown skin, we look nothing alike. (our skin isn’t even the same damn color) so for someone to tell me that is ridiculous and to me it says they don’t know any other way to relate to me as a bw other than comparing me to some random black woman celebrity who i look nothing like”

but did your friend actually look remotely similar to andie mcdowell..

Good question… I would say.. sort of.. at the time she had a relatively similar hairstyle and hair color and similar physical build but she was 4 inches shorter and her face, in my mind, didn’t look that much like Andie McDowell.

My opinions are based mainly on the questions other white men ask me about dating/married to a black woman. I mean I have never anyone walk up to a white woman,”Oh. such beautiful hair, may I touch it.” C’mon now.

I didn’t mention anything about hair.. but now that you say it.. a white woman I know quite well has had white men get obsessed with her hair and some have wanted to touch it apparently because it’s “exotic”. She refers to her hair style as “Jew Fro”. (and yes she’s Jewish..)

Is it stupid to touch a stranger’s hair (or even ask..)? Hell yes…. unless you’re both naked and sweaty and I don’t mean in a sauna. (And even then I know some women who might get pissed if you touch their hair…)

Correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but many of the comments you’ve made here have lead me to believe that you view these situations as “not that serious” or “hardly having anything to do with race”.

The fact that the vast majority of the examples in the original post are dripping with racial overtones transforms it from simply a man being an arse to a woman to a man feeling its ok to be this arse to a woman because she doesn’t look like him and that makes it more devious. You focus on the ones that can be used on any woman (which even that is a stretch), what about the ones that cannot? Bringing up the fact that someone made a comparison between your ex girlfriend and Andy McDowell, when you’ve admitted she kinda did look like her just seems out of place, and it doesn’t make what black women have to deal with simply because we are black less unacceptable and THAT is the point of this post.

Tue 29 Sep 2009 at 19:10:46
I have to agree that all of those things are TERRIBLE things to say to ANY woman.

Also, is she sure she was saying ALL of those things because shes black?? i mean, alot of those things could have been just bad manners in general, not nessacarily racism. And, also black people make sexual slurs toward white people to,

1) Ask her if she is sure?
2) Imply she is making a big deal of it
3) Minimise the impact by stating black people can be racist too
4) give examples of how blacks have been racist towards you. (which basically means since black men have been racist towards me, it kinda balances out when white men do it to you)
5) accuse you of being silly/stupid/slow when asked to provide proof pertaining to your particular circumstances
6) Completely deny what they said
7) Never admit that they are wrong and keep trying to shift the arguement by going off on a tangent
8 ) again deny what they said
9) place themselves in positions of having to approve your offense (they’ll take another look at the list)
10) blame the way you said it, or the way it was written
11) blame technology
12) accuse the other person of being ‘high strung’/over sensitive/aggressive/over emotional. Tell them they need to calm down or stop being so aggressive
13) Fail to prove your case.

@leah…you said
Let me explain that sentnce to you in simple terms: not EVERY comment in the post could ONLY be directed to a black woman, a few of the comments could be made to ANY WOMEN!
Please list them.

I gave you a list of 7 questions. As for substituting white for black in the question 8. Well duh, a Black, Latino, or Asian (or even white guy trying to be funny) is not going to say when speaking to white woman “I’ve always wanted to know what it’s like to do it with a black girl.”
He would say “I’ve always wanted to know what it’s like to do it with a white girl.”

Same sh*t slight semantic difference..

“whether your girl friend has been told she looks like andie mcdowell is irrelevant.
It’s not on the list which leah questione”

Ummm let’s see: Hey, you’re pretty! You like like (fill in famous Black Actress (Or whatever famous black woman you can think of. They all look alike, right?)

Or You look like # Hey, you’re pretty! You look just like (fill in famous White Actress) (Or whatever famous white woman you can think of. They all look alike, right?)

Again a semantic difference although the question could be racist (or more likely just stupid) when used by a white guy on a black woman but it would not be racist when used by a white guy on a white woman. As for a non-white guy on a white woman.. probably not racist…maybe stupid. Depends.

And then there’s still questions – 6,7,9,12,14.

racist tactics to divert and minimise the offense exactly what leah was doing.

Let’s remember that this topic is not about regular street harrassment.
It’s about what white men say to black women.

Not, what men say to women,
Not what black/asian men say to women.
Not ‘stuff white men say to black women which can be adapted or swapped around and they say to all women’
Not things all men say to all women
Not list the stuff white men say to black women then substitute the word black for white

So can anyone please state categorically where they have heard White men say to white women :

4)Hey, you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry. (Or whatever famous black woman you can think of. They all look alike, right?)
(and not substitute white for black, that wasn’t the question)

Correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but many of the comments you’ve made here have lead me to believe that you view these situations as “not that serious” or “hardly having anything to do with race”.

As for the comments made to Black&German I view the bulk of them as deeply offensive with the possible of exception of 4. (depending upon the context..)

If they were directed to a black woman certainly at minimum half and depending upon the situation – the rest could have a racist component.

As for the times when a white guy (or any guy) gets angry when he is rejected by a woman – I have seen that a number of times and each case except one the woman was white. Depends upon the situation. It is bad behavior – I just don’t know if it’s always racist behavior.

The fact that the vast majority of the examples in the original post are dripping with racial overtones transforms..

As I said I have heard (or more often heard about) 5 of them directed at white women (by white men usually) without any racial component.

As for the famous actress (or whomever) part.. (ie pretty woman..) I have seen a variant on this beyond my girlfriend who looked vaguely like Andie McDowell. I had a girlfriend get the line you look like Marilyn Monroe….well did she..? A big stretch. Call it a stupid worn out pickup like.. sure.. call it racist – in the right context I suppose so.

asked to prove this particular list.You didn’t give me a list, you gave me a fabrication.

I provided you with a list.. you do not accept it. 5 on the list have no mention of race.. one “I’ve never been with (fill in race, ethnicity) woman is certainly obnoxious and when directed by a white guy to a black woman racist. But I was reminded by a friend that a gentile said to her “I’ve never been with a Jewish girl..”
Grrr…

I accepted what Black&German said was true.
Apparently you do not accept what I said was true. You don’t have to believe me.. you don’t have to agree with me. Have a nice day.

asked to prove this particular list.
How does Black&German prove what was said to her actually happened? She can’t really unless she made recordings and linked them here. But I accept her word.. apparently you won’t accept mine.

I don’t need Black&German’s list.
I’m a black woman living in a majority white country.. I’ve heard most of these myself.
Thanks v. much.

Again, it might behoove you to comprehend the whole pic.

Leah said asked if the poster was sure this was said because she was black.
She said a lot of those could be because of bad manners and then used herself as an example of what black men have said to her. (completely irrelevant)

You’ve pulled out a few on the list and swapped black for white.. = FAIL.

Yep there are a couple of points which are general which I will not dispute.

But to say a lot and to question the racism is in itself racist.

What you are doing is ‘derailing for dummies’.

You are making up substitutions for the word black to largely prove your point. which =FAIL.

I asked Leah to prove that a lot on that list is not racist.
Both of you can’t prove it. Thus you create diversionary tactics, tangents, blame technology, question the OP, attempt to discredit the OP…
Because heaven forbid, black women cant actually experience mysoginistic racism can they?
I mean why? It’s just BS behaviour from BS dudes.. right? and those dudes are like that to everyone right?…

Look, it’s evident that you can’t prove what you’ve attempted to prove.

So instead of wasting time, try that with someone who will be willing to overlook your inability to answer a question and deal by focusing on your derailments.

oh and stop with the passive aggressive BS.
You attempt to insult my intelligence and sign off with have a nice day lol…..

When and if there is ever a point when you can adequately answer the question without going off on an irrelevant tangent or derailing or denying, I might re-engage.. till then…

I specifically pulled out half of the 14. 5 could have been said by any man of any race and in fact I know of instances where they were said to white women. I agree they are disgusting.

Let’s try this man of race X says to woman of race y.. I never been with a y girl.
You insist that this has nothing to with B&G’s post.. the other had to do with famous pretty women.. an old one used.. by all sorts of folks on all sorts of people… Hooked on semantics.. and that would be just the two out of seven… you are choosing not to respond to my the other 5 on list.

Look, it’s evident that you can’t prove what you’ve attempted to prove.

It’s evident that you are using semantics for 2 questions on the list and don’t even wish to address my points about the other 5 questions on the list.

When and if there is ever a point when you can adequately answer my response to 5 on the list.. I might re-engage ..till then.

ok, Soul…you don’t have to S L O W anything down for me honey bun, I’m fully capable of keeping up with your (sometimes seemingly arrogant) comments. You need to CALM DOWN my friend. I really don’t under stand why you say me and “my type” (i really don’t know what you’re implying here, but whatever)are predictable. I was NOT implying that alot of those comments were purely racist. but some of them (6,7,9,12,14,15) could have been directed at her for reasons other than race….if you look at some of her comments you’ll realize that she AGREED WITH ME!

Black&German Says:

Tue 29 Sep 2009 at 19:22:42

I can’t tell you if they said all of those things because of race. I never asked.

And, yes, I’ve heard BM make some nasty remarks about WW.

SEE.

And you asked me to PROVE that somethimes black men(and white men and men of other races) do make racial slurs about white women)

I’ll make My own list….

1. So, Do you spit or swallow? My girls black, and you know how they are, won’t put a d*ck near their face.

2. I was at a comedy show and the comedian literally said “Everybody look around, all these black guys with white girls……They give good head don’t they guys?”

3. I was at a Jaime Foxx concert and I got to go up on stage with him for this dance contest thing, as soon as he saw me he said “Oh My God, She’s white!” then continued to make jokes about how I must watch BET and so I know how to dance and how I’m thinking in my head “look at all thes n*ggers” and then told me I should be scared because all the these black girls were gonna jump me when I got off stage……….He said all this stuff in front of 10,000+ people. But he was good natured about it, and I knew it was part of the show.

4. It’s been assumed I would show my boobs like girls gone wild, because I’m white(they said this)

5. I can’t even count the times I’ve been called snow bunny.

6. When you gonna let me hit it. (assuming i’m easy, because all white girls are you know)

7. They say once you go black, you never go back! HAHAHA that cracks me up….so cheesy. esecially because he was serious.

8. MANY, MANY black girls have said just purely mean things to me because my husband is black. Such as:
*Why do u think you can come up our race and take our men?
*Why do the white girls have to take the only good black men left.
* one girl said “all the nice looking black men are either shot, in prison, or with a white girl.

Please tell me thats not proof enough for you?? I’m sure I could pull out some more if i thought hard enough.

And you know what…I don’t hold those comments against the people who said them, or a certain race as a whole, i just move on with my life.(not saying the black&german didn’t do the same.)

i think the problem with the initial list is the fact that not ALL of the comments can be regarded as racist…perhaps race-related.

Most of them are problematic and offensive.. as I said to Gen I agree that all, in my opinion, could have a racist overtone depending upon the context.

i personally dont see whats wrong with 3, 4 and 8 (although the context and the way theyre said will be a contributing factor)

Yeah I don’t get how 4 is bad … unless the guy is way off.. but basically he’s comparing someone to a beautiful woman.. not Janet Reno. As 3, as a white guy I would avoid like the plague, using ghetto and black together I would think would be a red flag. (although I know black people who have described other black people or neighborhoods as ghetto)

4. Hey, you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry. (Or whatever famous black woman you can think of. They all look alike, right?)

I think Andie MacDowell is a beautiful women but I am afraid she does not hold the same position in the minds of black and Asian men in regard to the white race that Halle Berry does in the minds of white men in regard to the black race.

What can make the Halle Berry comment racist and insulting is if an all-blacks-look-alike thing underlies it.

I am from but not limited to Tennessee. I have worked and lived in most every state in the union. I now live in Las Vegas, but I am currently in Lake Charles LA. AS I said, my opinions are formed mainly from questions other white guys have asked me about being married to or dating a black woman.

In Vegas I stopped in a bar after work to have a drink with a couple of friends. one of the guy’s younger brother came in, with a load on. There was a young black girl sitting at the bar. He said, “watch this.” I don’t know what he said to the girl, but he came back really pissed. “That N’er c*^t!” I don’t know what he said to her and I don’t know what she said to him. She sat quietly at the bar, maintaining her composure. He pouted like a small child. His bottom lip sticking out so far he almost tripped over it. It angered him because she would not listen to his crap.

The hair remark I used as an example from previous post made by black women here.

I am not rally amazed that you know ONE white woman,that people are obsessed with her hair. When white people say to black women,”I just have to touch your hair”, etc they’re ‘sucking up’ in such a condescending way. Do you know a black woman whose hair white people are obsessed with?

I have heard the comments about hair before from whites (mostly women..) to black women. I can’t really remember many details at the moment, you’re probably more attuned to such comments since your wife is black.

I am not rally amazed that you know ONE white woman,that people are obsessed with her hair.

Well I know more than one..my friend was just the most recent example…her hair is pretty close to this Israeli woman:

Again I asked for proof, he started derailing..substituting black for white.

For two out seven questions.. you call it derailing, I call it semantics. The other five I listed definitely were not race specific (at least by themselves, when directed to a black woman they could very well be, I never argued that they weren’t racist.. I stated that they could be directed to white women…) other people saw that there were 5 non-race specific questions.

Richard Simmons is not on topic at all, but it doesn’t matter because this is what this type of person does.

The issue here is not a big deal to them, they think we are just making a big deal out of it because ooops it happens to everyone, oh and the fact that there is any racial undertone is erm, well because that particular person who said them is just a twit.

Because they don’t really believe racism is that overt it is something they can be dismissive of, especially since it involves black women. Because black women cannot have white men talk to them in a sexual manner, because well.. why would they?

That’s why you can find that on a topic where people are talking about the things white men say to black women…
Racist sympathisers will come in and derail it with:

‘oh it happens to me too’ – who said it didn’t? on this occassion we are not talking about you

make funnies by posting a funny video.

They don’t care about what happens to black women, as long as you don’t make white people look bad ahhhhhh.

They are really quite predictable and enjoy making themselves the centre of attention. I think I’m just going to ignore them from now.

“It frustrates racists when you don’t follow their diversionary tactics and stick to the original issue, that’s why Leah stuck to the insults and that’s why Milton kept substituting black for white.”

I wasn’t trying to turn aside from any subject, we were discussing two different things:
1. That some comments on the list could be direct to someone who is not white.
and
2. That black people have sometimes made racial comments toward myself, and i’ve already made myself clear on my feelings about that.

Please tell me how you figure I’m a racist?

I’m sure you have your own thoughts as to what it means to me racist…

but what i think is that i’m pretty much wasting my time trying to explain to you what i meant by my comments because you have formed an opinion of me and what I said that will not be swayed.

Soul, I get your points succinctly. Ever hear that old idiom, ‘Can’t see the forest for the trees’? That is what your dealing with here with the people you are disputing with. Nickel and dimeing is the order. The post topic is about what white man say to black women. Not what men say to women in general. As for blacks being racist that’s an impossibility given the current power structure in place. Any type of ‘racist’ behaviour on the part of blacks is reactionary. Those blacks who are perceived as being racists have had excellent teachers through the ages in the form of whites. They’ve obviously learnt from the pros.

By the way, I met a black woman here in Akron. I know your reaction….’Oh Lord no, she’s in wake for a rude awakening.’

We’ve met a few times and talk every day on the phone. She’s a really sweet gal and I am happy to be talking to her. We share quite a few of the same interests and we’re both religious.

It’s not as bad as I thought it would be being seen with her in public. This is my first time dating outside my race, so I wasn’t sure of what to expect if this came to be.

I feel very comfortable with her. She has dated white men for quite a while now, so she really helps me along and tells me not to notice or pay attention to others if they may stare.

The only one’s I have noticed the most (surprisingly to me) is white women. Some pretty snide looks (no comments thankfully). Black men/women for the most part just went along with their business. We really haven’t been around too many black people enough to receive any types of comments.

Her parents are the same exact as mine. Very loving, deeply religious and I feel most comfortable with them. I felt like I was going to sh!t my pants when I walked up the path to her parents front door, but they welcomed me in immediately. They support their daughters choices in who she dates, and her mother has always told her to judge the person’s character and not their skin color.

She has two brothers and two sisters. Her being the 3rd child born.

I plan to take things slow (which I do with every relationship) and hopefully we can build from there. She doesn’t have any baggage or hangups with past relationships. She has all the qualities I seek in any woman.

If there was someway I could post her pic here I would be more than happy to.

Abagond, any way? lol

I again apologize for my past remarks I have stated in here. I was foolish and immature to be making such statements.

Rick, I have seen some comments in here that I would have blown up over before. I won’t say any names but this comment I was referring to of your comment on another blogger should give an indication.

I am trying to better myself as an individual and not hastily judge others because I do not know anyone’s true experiences they have faced.

White people have certain common ways of arguing about racism. Here are two of them:

1. “Black people do it too!”. This changes the argument from whether white people are racist to whether blacks are.

2. “But that happens to me too!” This says that what blacks experience cannot be racism because whites experience it too. Like having people touch your hair or being called a whore in so many words.

Because blacks have heard them so many times before they come off sounding disingenuous, as not being serious arguments.

I believe both have been used in this thread, wittingly or not. Unfortunately in a thread with over 300 comments it would be tiresome to try to prove it with particulars, so maybe I am wrong. But it is certainly how it seems to me. I think it is what drove many of Soul’s comments too.

What you are asking for in post 1, will require me to really give up my time and be extremely super patient with you, a stranger who I do not know and who for all my patience might just shrug your shoulders or just say ‘calm down’ or ‘you are too sensitive’ or ‘I didn’t mean it like that’ or ‘you are taking things way to serious’

What you said in post 2 contradicts post 1. You don’t think I can will be able to answer you because I thinkyou are a racist?.

Well that’s false, most people I deal with on a daily basis are racist. I even have lunch with them, go out to events with them. e.t.c. We as black people have learnt how to deal with that in situations where we have to.

But we’ll get to that later.

My question is, which one is it?.
Post 1 or post 2?

Post 1, means we go further.
Post 2 means the discussion ends.

Balls in your court.
asked the question, now you don’t believe that

1 Leah Says:
I would kindly like to ask you to explain to me what I have said that you have found to be insulting.

2Leah also says:Please tell me how you figure I’m a racist?

I’m sure you have your own thoughts as to what it means to me racist…

but what i think is that i’m pretty much wasting my time trying to explain to you what i meant by my comments because you have formed an opinion of me and what I said that will not be swayed.

“White people have certain common ways of arguing about racism. Here are two of them:

1. “Black people do it too!”. This changes the argument from whether white people are racist to whether blacks are.”

You have good and valid points.

I just don’t think discriminating or using racist type of expressions should ever be justified, no matter race.

I think if people breed so much hatred within maybe the problem lies therein.

It’s a terrible thing to be discriminated against and I feel sympathy for those that have felt that. I don’t have a clue what it is like to be black in everyday life.

What bothers me the most is when we conclude that a certain race is all the same. A lack of education may be an issue here, especially to whites (they are the quickest to judge with no regards for understanding).

Alle Problemniederlassung vom Weiß… (All problems branch from white…)

I believe that to be true and the circumstances that are dealt today makes for an unending struggle for minorities.

I think with a relationship of different cultures, aka skin, religion etc. You have to really look inside yourself to see what you have before you can offer it. what I mean is what is in your heart – is it a rainbow or some jaded colors that won’t blossom. yes their are a lot of cruel, self demeaning people in society today. Life is so short why worry on someone’s comments especially if your seeking, found or living inn a relationship of “color” It doesn’t matter.. what matters is the color of the heart..

“I think with a relationship of different cultures, aka skin, religion etc. You have to really look inside yourself to see what you have before you can offer it. what I mean is what is in your heart – is it a rainbow or some jaded colors that won’t blossom. yes their are a lot of cruel, self demeaning people in society today. Life is so short why worry on someone’s comments especially if your seeking, found or living inn a relationship of “color” It doesn’t matter.. what matters is the color of the heart..”

That’s what I don’t understand of the people who are married in here showing their dissent about the same color of race their married to!

Man that Azrazyel has some serious issues. LOL!
That guy kinda cracks me up. Yank men need to learn to grow some. How can Azrazyel get dates when he acts like such a typical American angry whiny pu$$y!!!
While me. A charming Brit with common sense doesn’t get a look from a pretty girl!!!
This world is screwed up. Not as much Azrazyel.

Actually tell a lie. I’m going on a date next week!!! Finally! hopefully it’s the end of my dry spell!!! 😉 🙂

I’ve been to Roissy’s website and his website is so full of racist/sexist/classist/homophobic views. I wondered whether Roissy have a girlfriend or is he just a racist misogynist with an ax to grind. Besides, a lot of posters there have racist/sexist views similar to the ones expressed by the Azrayel. The closest one is to Azrayel’s is expressed by a certain Willard Libby. Mr. Libby has an ax to grind against Blacks and women in general.
La Reyna

I wondered whether Roissy have a girlfriend or is he just a racist misogynist with an ax to grind.

The latter, I think. But I do agree with him on some things. Just because he’s a racist misogynist doesn’t mean that he can’t also be correct on point. I have a very advanced ability to hold my nose and have discussions with people I absolutely despise.

I apologize for not gettin back sooner, I don’t have a computer at my house and I only work three days a week. But anyway, I’m tired of trying to explain myself to someone I don’t know. And I’m very sorry If I offended anyone, but I really don’t see how I did so. This is just becoming one big headache. I’m not going to respond on this post anymore(i hope)

6. What do you mean you don’t want to date me? You should be happy I even asked!

Ditto. (Or better yet: “You should be happy I even asked because I’m the only way you’re going to get a visa to get out of this hell hole”.)

7. How about we get to know each other a little better? You know, go to my place. No? What if I pay you?

Oh, ditto, ditto, ditto. All Brazilian women are whores, you know. In fact, just ask 8 out of 10 Black American women to give you their opinion on that point. Oprah even did a show about it.

8. I’ve always wanted to know what it’s like to do it with a black girl.

Ditto.

9. My friend over there just came back from [some overseas country] and he’s looking for some female company. You’re very pretty. How much?

Ditto, as long as we change that to “My friend over there just arrived in Rio today…”

10. I don’t usually like black women but you’re different. You’ve got class.

A month ago during her fieldwork, my wife Ana Paula got this line from a black american gentleman who’s been living in Rio for three years. The particular variant of it was “I don’t usually date women I meet on Copacabana, but you’re different. You’ve got an education.” It should be noted that he knew that we were a couple when he made this comment, but I guess he figured that if you don’t cry, you don’t suckle (as we say down here)…

11. I heard your boyfriend is white. So, you like white dick? Want some of mine?

Ditto for white gringos. For black gringos, this one goes “Why the hell are you with that white boy? You shouldn’t be giving it up to them!” (And this is usually after said black gentleman has spent two hours hitting on some bleach blonde teuto-Brazilian floozy from Curitiba…)

12. [If they refuse to go out with you, slam them against the wall and scream in their face.] You think you’re too good for me?

Ditto, usually very unfortunately for the gringo involved.

15. Oh, God. My dad would totally kill me if he knew I was talking to you.

Ditto, but more like “Oh God, my wife would totally kill me if she knew I was talking to you.”

16. You know, if I knocked you up our babies would look white.

Ditto if the gringo’s white. If he’s black, it’s “I know you Brazilians only think about ‘whitening the race’ so that’s why you won’t give me any action: you’re afraid I’ll get you knocked up and you’ll have dark babies”.

Now, I’ve heard almost all of these statements – or close variants of them – come out of black as well as white mouths when speaking to Brazilian women. And believe me, I WISH these staements had all been overheard in the context of a Copacabana clip joint. 😦

Am not sure why that is, but in London unfortunately Brazilian women have the worst reputation for prostitution. Well next to Eastern European women.
They are thousands of miles from home, a LOT can barely speak English. If they’re not cleaning, then hey must be prostitution.
A GP friend of mine has a Brazilian cleaner and he remarked on how good Brazilian women look on their knees, and all this when the poor lady was cleaning his kitchen floor! She’s a very attractive lady and attitudes like his certainly don’t help.
I figure people think Brazilians have such hot bodies they must be giving it up to all and sundry. As to WHY they perceive them to be hookers I have no idea.
The media may play a part, everytime some prominent so and so is caught with his pants down if it’s not with a woman from the Eastern Bloc, it’s with a Brazilian. Usually there’s been an exchange of money for services.
They are an exotic thrill to a lot of Englishmen.
Their dress code from what I have observed isn’t conservative enough for some London standards, what with tight clothing and all. That doesn’t help.
I’ve been guilty of that sort of thought as well until an Englishguy thought if the normal route of asking me out didn’t work and I rejected him then offering me money might change my mind : (
Sucks, there are lots of racist idiots out there. In their little warped perverted minds, young attractive women of color have a price.

Id like to talk about #4. This seems to be the one that occurs the most. Now, let me start by sayin that im a white man. I have lived in black\mixed neiborhoods all my life and am in a mostly black high school [senior] so, naturally, for me, i would never think this. Because ive been exposed to different people and many black girls, i realize that they all look different. Saying all the ‘pretty ones’ look like hally berry is ignorant as hell.#4 really pisses me off because ive actually heard it being said to people at school.

funny story, ive actually been told a lot by several black girls at school that i look like Johnny Depp, Its almost like the “johnny depp” of black girls is like the “hally berry” of white men. lol [its cuz i got long hair]

i think if people were more exposed to different groups of people, besides seeing them on TV, they wolud realize these things. A lot of white people[young ones] i know who live in the suburbs, dont know any black people, or they know thier local “token”. When they think of black people, they think of will smith, or dave chappelle, chris rock, hally berry. Or, more commonly, they think of the artists in their ipods, like lil wayne and 50 cent, etcetc and then they think all black men jump around acting like a dumb111 like lil wayne or think theyre all drug addicts., etc. It depresses me to think of this.

I think the main problem in #4 is the fact many white people do not really see black people as fully human. Perhaps in theory, they do, but in reality, they tend to think “all blacks look alike”.

Plus, it has a lot to do with sexual attraction. As sad as it may be, many white people don’t even consider black people as potential sexual mates (just like straight men don’t consider other men) and often can’t even tell if someone is attractive. That’s how you get all those “well, he’s not an ugly guy, but I can’t really tell if a man is handsome” and “well, she is pretty I guess, for a black girl”. (if she has a few white features, like Halle Berry for example).

On the other hand, there are white men (and women) who are attracted to black people of the opposite gender; but if they ask them why, they’ll usually present you with bunch of stereotypes. I couldn’t believe this until I read what some of those people write. It goes straight back to ” all black people look alike”. Which means it’s not simply about sexual attraction. For some reason I thought being attracted to black people (well, physical features more often found in black people) will make you see them as individuals. It doesn’t work that way, at least not all the time.

Well, I am aware not all white guys are like this. I don’t even know if it’s majority. But the fact there are some of them who think this way, speaks volumes. Those people don’t see black people as fully human.

id say your correct, Mira. but…”there are white men (and women) who are attracted to black people of the opposite gender; but if they ask them why, they’ll usually present you with bunch of stereotypes.”

But im confused to your notion about attraction.
im a white man who is attracted to black women [and all women] but with black women, its because they have something physically that other races, especially my own, dont have. They have a look that sets them apart from other women, like all races. Im not saying i can only be physically attracted to a bw, quite the contrary. Im just saying if your attracted to a women because she had features that are pleasing to you, does that seem wrong to you? i might be misinterpreting, but please explain.

I am a black woman and I just recently had a white man tell me that he is still in love with his ex-girlfriend, he is not a liar anymore, he does not want a relationship with me, he just wants to have sex with me, he is just being honest. Of course, I was offended. Ive never had a white man disrespect me in such a way. It made me feel like less of a woman. The main problem is that this man is my manager. So even though I politely turned him down I have to see him and work with him everyday and it really hurts to know that I am viewed in that way. He just views me as a whore.

But im confused to your notion about attraction.
im a white man who is attracted to black women [and all women] but with black women, its because they have something physically that other races, especially my own, dont have. They have a look that sets them apart from other women, like all races. Im not saying i can only be physically attracted to a bw, quite the contrary. Im just saying if your attracted to a women because she had features that are pleasing to you, does that seem wrong to you? i might be misinterpreting, but please explain.

There’s nothing wrong in preferences. For example, I don’t like bond guys with blue eyes. It doesn’t mean I think they’re bad people or ugly, I am just not particularly attracted to men with given features. I did date a blond guy with blue eyes, but it’s safe to say my preferences are different.

Having preference for dark skinned women, for example, is ok. But what I mean by “if they ask them why, they’ll usually present you with bunch of stereotypes” is saying you like black (wo)men because they are more passionate, better at sex, wild, exotic, great dancers, etc. No two people are alike, and I think it’s bad to make that kind of generalizations.

I support interracial relationships, but I mean relationships, not fetishism or experimentation just for the sake of it.

pricelessI am a black woman and I just recently had a white man tell me that he is still in love with his ex-girlfriend, he is not a liar anymore, he does not want a relationship with me, he just wants to have sex with me, he is just being honest. Of course, I was offended. Ive never had a white man disrespect me in such a way. It made me feel like less of a woman. The main problem is that this man is my manager. So even though I politely turned him down I have to see him and work with him everyday and it really hurts to know that I am viewed in that way. He just views me as a whore.

I’m sorry that happend to you. Now I’m going to fuss at you. What did you expect? White men have disrespected black women for hundreds of years. All black women should be cautious with white men. My advice is for you to look for another job before he starts harrassing you. He may even get you fired for not putting out. He is your manager so working there is going to be a little uncomfortable. Most white men don’t give black women the respect that they give to other women. They see black women as something to screw until they find the “non black” woman they really want. If you have’nt already maybe you should open your options to other ethnicities of men. And there are good black men out there who are still single.

I have been reading these comments on white men and black women. I don’t have a problem with people having their preferences but I feel that if a person is going to be with certain types of people, it should involve respect and commitment. I agree with Mira, people shouldn’t get involved in interracial relationships just out of curiosity or fetishism. Black women are human beings and we should be treated with respect, compassion, and love, just like anyone else. It isn’t fair for people to just use people for sex under any circumstances. Maybe I am just oldfashioned but sex should involve marriage and commitment. It shouldn’t just be curiousity. So I hope that if white men are interested in black women, I hope they have good intentions, ( like having a family, marriage, friendship, love) and visa versa.

Mira maybe too many people associate black women with being ghetto, that stereotype dogs us to the point where we try hard to prove we’re anything but.
I find it hilarious when it catches on with black men of all people. The very race of men that should know better.
My advice to any woman is to not rush into anything especially if you have reservations about dating interracially. Relationships are tough enough without the added racial factor and all the complications that can come with it.

I guess that depends on the level of comfort and trust there is between that particular white man and black woman. It’d be a stupid thing to say to someone you don’t know well for sure.

I think of “ghetto” as more of an attitude and state of mind. I’ve seen black, white, Asian and Latin girls that act ghetto. Many of them aren’t even from a ghetto but try to mimic what they think is ghetto talk, preferences in music, fashion, attitude or whatever. To each his own, but I’m not into it.

Mira maybe too many people associate black women with being ghetto, that stereotype dogs us to the point where we try hard to prove we’re anything but.

I understand that. What I feel is disrespectful here is the need to say such a thing to a black woman. Do people say: “I like white women, just not redneck ones”? (Maybe they do, I wouldn’t know).

I think of “ghetto” as more of an attitude and state of mind. I’ve seen black, white, Asian and Latin girls that act ghetto. Many of them aren’t even from a ghetto but try to mimic what they think is ghetto talk, preferences in music, fashion, attitude or whatever. To each his own, but I’m not into it.

I never said you should be into it. I’m just trying to say I find disrespectful the need to say “I dislike ghetto women” to any black woman you meet. It’s like you expect her to be ghetto because she is black.

I finally saw Something New and couldn’t help thinking that for all those black women being depicted as professionals had ‘ghetto’ tendencies in their downtime.
Taraji P Henson and Golden Brooks just weren’t convincing at all. Certain vernacular and speech patterns used that from the next room I could tell was a black woman speaking.
I’ve never met black American professional women in London who had those tendencies, they let down that movie! Maybe that’s what white Americans have observed, that even in a movie that is supposed to celebrate the upper echelons of black high society they just couldn’t switch off the ghetto nonsense.

One more thing:
There’s a rather funny email making the rounds at work of Barack Obama. He’s on a podium, reporters firing questions about how he’s handling the recession, to which he pipes up with ‘Hold the f*@k up! I got this!

Some of my colleaques are in stitches, here’s this ‘light-skinned’ African American man finally succumbing to pressure and resorting to ‘negro dialect’
His impeccable upbringing and manners, oratory skills have deserted him! I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Maybe deep down some white Americans think their fellow African American citizens are all ghetto at heart.

Some Black Americans speak only Standard English and some speak only Ebonics (“Negro dialect”), but most switch between the two depending on the circumstances. It is called code-switching. Everyone who’s vernacular English is not Standard English does it, not just Black Americans. George Bush used it to effect by refusing to code-switch when expected to make himself seem more like the common man than he was (the son of a president and grandson of a senator). The truth is, he has no trouble speaking Standard English.

All men do this kind of stuff, I know this white girl with a pretty big bottom, she was at a gas station and this black guy called out to her and said ” Dayum Gurrl!! I didn’t know they made white girls with hips like those.” He tried to approach her, she got freaked out and drove away.

I’m not sure if you are in Germany when most of these comments are made, but German men are much different than American men, which is why I think there is so much disparity between the women posters on this thread and individual experiences.

These comments were all made in America. German men are much more respectful says Black & German in one of the comments above:

“When I was living in Germany (for over 10 years!) I was never harassed on the street, never had degrading things said to me, never been subjected to an objectifying culture. NEVER. It’s so rare there as to be a non-issue. If a man there gets a reputation as a “player” women will avoid him like the plague, they certainly wouldn’t flock to him like inane pigeons! Why would any woman in her right mind sleep with a man who had mistreated another woman?”

Hmmm not only do I hear the dising by WM I feel it everytime I cross the street or hallway in a skyway looking fly, happy and holding starbucks in hand. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota and if your a black woman advice< don't bother coming here there as racist and evil as they get. They do not acknowlege u passing the street they make sure they walk infront of you every chance they get and if you dare walk infront of them they swear under their breaths. Its like slavery is still in they did'nt get the memo that its long gone and black is running this. I don't know if it is me they hate or if i have a curse or maybe some of the other black women don't see it but I certainly do. WM will not wait for a BW to cross the street infront of them here in Minneapolis they all do it been here for 10 years and I constantly fight that all the time. They only have respect and acknowlege for WW ova here during the day time. Who know but the bottom line is off all the white men I have dated none of them are in anyways a condender for the BM. BM are blessed please jealous down thats why they are confident. Maybe its just a case of WM with small rather should I say winkies and they know they cannot satisfy so instead they take out their fustration by trying to get ahead in other areas hehee

My experiences have included all but numbers 1,2,9,13, and I am only 17 years of age.

Some people do stereotype African American women/girls as being undesirable,unwanted, and unappealing.

I receive those stares all the time, just as you. Opportunities have risen allowing conversation to transpire between those males and I. From this, my mind has finally completely comprehended they’re only staring from “shock” because I completely shatter their racial stereotypes about blacks being undesirable. To them you are one of the “RARE” black girls that aren’t ugly and you are worthy of them. So your mother sister and aunt are all still apart of the undesirable lesser race. Their minds are fairly perverted (mentally polluted). Since you are still “black” they automatically assume you’re promiscuous. This is regardless if your parents raised you to be a self-respecting intelligent individual aka a lady. The guy will initiate sexual undertones (You’re so sexy. I know you like it rough etc.) they disregard your feelings, this is where I compare them to the 1800 slave master. The lustful staring applies here also; look in there eyes there is nothing innocent in the eye contact. His eye contact is constant because he wants you to notice him, noticing you. This does not apply to all white guys but a lot of them still maintain the sickest perspective of the African American Culture . Remember this is America not Europe. I thank god for my knowledge,intelligence and wisdom in cultural aspects of life.

Those guys don’t even deserve the privilege of friendship,nevertheless companionship.
If you need anymore insight just email me.

Miss Legs I black man please clarify the walk in front thing. Is it some sign of disrespect. Do you mean like they ignore you existence because I would be annoyed if anyone was walking to closely behind me.
I hate when people walk in front and go slow is that what they are doing. I want to her all about you experience as a black women in minneapolis. I have a female cousin who lives there.

One noteworthy experience that comes to mind, is one, happened on the night of the Academy Awards, (the year escapes me).
I was coming home from work, and the long procession of Bently’s, Roll Royce’ etc, were making their way to the Chandler or Kodiak Theater/Pavillion, where the awards were being held. There was no way to cross the street at the light, as vehicles were in all of the intersections on Wilshire and Beverly boulevards. So, I walked on, looking for an opportunity to cross between cars. While doing so, I was propositioned by several wm in these luxury vehicles, who even stood thru the sun roofs to wave dollars at me! I was fully clothed, worked as admin assistant, and dressed quite conservatively.

Had a wm proclaim to me that I should go out with him, as bm and bw were having such a difficult time liking one another.

Abagond you forgot to add that white men LOVE to say “Wow i like your attitude. So sassy” or variants of that. Stereotypes are impossable to escape as black woman. I consider myself successful, mild mannered, and not at all “sassy”. In fact i am very shy and very soft spoken. It’s just my nature. Yet people are constantly projecting these personality traits onto me that i seriousely do not have.
My concern is that young black women are falling for this crap and taking on roles that have nothing to do with who they are inside, because it is expected of them. How many times have i gone out for a position in the wider community only to be told i lacked the interpersonal skills, empathy and sensitivity needed to help others.
So untrue. I have dedicated my life to serving others. But as a black woman I am seen as being a blunt, sassy woman with an attitude problem. When everythign about me syas the opposite.
Alhough we are talking about white men, the wider peice is that society itself says these things about us. As PEOPLE we are not valued for our true selves. Some of us are very meek, some of us are very analytical, some of us are family oriented, some of us are actually very happy taking direction form our husbands, some of us are NOT independant…we are as varied as any others around us. I for one wish to start a group dedicated to promoting the FACT that black women are not ALL the same. if anyone else is interested or has ideas e-mail me at anasylph2009@yahoo.com

Yet people are constantly projecting these personality traits onto me that i seriousely do not have.

I agree. It doesn’t matter what or who you actually ARE. Others seem to insist you’re something else. If you really want to rile them, continue defying their stereotypes. They’ll hate your guts for it and even more vehemently insist that you are what THEY say you are.

I think black women are beautiful, I take them at face value like anyone else I meet or have met, if they are approachable and intelligent through observation like any woman I have interest in, I will talk to them and try to get to know them better.

Stereotypes are doomed to failure..

I never pay attention to groups, media or anything else, people are all different and they all have individual traits.

It is just too bad My Jamaican girlfriend I met at devry in chicago never really had the opportunity to hit it off with me.. Our timing was always bad, frustrating!!

There was raw attraction between us and I will never find out where that would have gone… It was priceless, when you know, that type of attraction has no voice, its magnetic, powerful and calming all at once. The person you’ve been searching for your entire life is right there and either you take the opportunity or its gone forever.

Maby in the next life I will have another chance and maby in the present, a smarter guy then me will grab the opportunity unlike a fool like me. Just a thought..

Yea I’m pretty sure half of these are made up… And I have a hard time believing white men think most black women are whores and prostitutes. Men in general treat women badly but thinking they are all prostitutes defies any adult logic. What is this post trying to do? Make bw discouraged about dating white men? Lame.

this stuff is true well alittle lol….i have to agree that most white men can be alotttt worser then your own kind becuz i guess they fell that they r white so a black women should be glad that they r talking to them….i have to admit i used to date white dudes until i found what they REALLY think of black women and its disgusting how they are very nasty,i havent dated one ever since,never again!!!!there are good black men out there they will treat u with respect that you deserve,but white dudes r very rude and heartless when it comes to black women

ive heard almost every one of the coments ..even in high school a talent scout came to my school n was with one of the top fb players there n told me wow ure pretty for a dark skin grl! i was like wtf duz that mean i looked them n the face n was like even one of my school mates who was mixed like r u guys idiots but i hear this comment all the time .. i have an exotic look and i can be complketely covered and still get these comments and stares and bull ish. like i spoke to a whyt guy before n sed hi he was like ive never been with a black grl before n i was like wat do u mean by been like never seen one before and he was like no never been with one and i was like so wat does that hve to do wit me like y u telln me dis ..does my forhead say im want u to try sum (purple pussy) O YEA SUM PEPLE THINK WERE PURPLE DWN THERE! WTF! LOOK I KAN GO ON AND ON BOUT SUM OF DA ISH WHYT GUYS TELL ME! I B LIKE WTF
O N IM 21 RIGHT NOW AND LIVE N MIAMI

Selma Blair (WTH)–both white and black men have said i resemble her, especially when i was in high school.

I don’t know. These comments were not offensive just plain weird as i am very brown and have always had afro textured long, frizzy hair. Then again maybe they just thought i dressed and behaved like these women.

I have a question about “uppity” I just saw it up there in one of the lines white guys say and I saw somewhere on here (I can’t figure out which blog)…that it is a racist term. Can someone please elaborate for me…because I can’t find the blog and I have been using that term for years to describe rich, uptight, prudish white people that treated me like they were better than me. I would like more info please cause I feel like a douche for using that word if it is racist.

I think it can go either way too. My fiance came to my college campus…a well respected HBCU in the state of Maryland. We were eating breakfast in the cafeteria and I excused myself to get a cup of coffee. I came back a few mins later that this large Nigerian male was trying to rationalize with her about leaving me saying “A white man cannot appreciate a black queen such as yourself like a black king can. Come back sister.” Nonetheless she was looking at him with a half annoyed half amused expression on her face. He quickly retreated when I walked up. But I’ve been asked some amazingly dumb stuff by some black women before when they discovered that I don’t date white women.
“Is it true white men eat the coochie?”
“You date black women? You don’t look like the type”
“I heard white men are real freaky….is that true?”
“I couldn’t be with a white man….when I have sex I want to be filled up.” (My response to that one was: “Maybe white men don’t have small d**ks, maybe your stuff is stretched outta shape”)
The funniest to me was “You date black women? Are you Italian?”
I find that funny because I’m NOT Italian, I’m Welsh/British decent…but I did live in Northern Italy when I was a child.

I have heard number 10, 3, and 4. Number 4 is actually slightly amusing. I’ve gotten Tatiana Ali, Gabrielle Union, Gabby Douglas, Stacey Dash, and that model who looks kind of like the more Black Adriana Lima (I looked her up once and can’t remember her name). It makes me laugh since most of those are some of the sweetest untruths I have ever heard in the looks department. I don’t look a thing like those women. The only one my brother thinks is a match is Gabrielle Union. Other than us both being dark brown, I don’t see it. But it makes me happy nonetheless.

I’ve also had one man of color (though I can’t remember his ethnic mix), say that I was pretty for a Black girl. I smiled and said, (I think verbatim) “Ohhh, right! Of course. I am pretty IN SPITE OF my Blackness. Thank you ever so much for that back-handed, closet racist compliment that you definitely could have kept to yourself. I mean, damn. If I didn’t have men like you to give me these types of genuine compliments, how could I even survive the day!?” I then informed him, before cutting him out of my circle that I was proud of my color and would not change it for the world, and that in no way did I see it as hindrance to my beauty. The worst part? He was not under the influence of any drug, and seemed genuinely confused as to why I was offended at all.

The guys who are trying to fulfill some fantasy on their bedpost are usually not too difficult to realize. They give it away eventually with something stupid that they say. Actually though, I have been on a date with a Black man and had him tell me how much he normally disliked Black women’s attitudes and was so glad that I wasn’t some “ghetto, loud-mouthed heathen” who didn’t “know how to act in public.” All appeal he had to me evaporated right there. I was stunned into silence. I didn’t even respond. I just sat there in shock and then left without a word. So my worst racial comment actually came from a Black man. White men mainly throw me the whole, “You look just like (fill in brown-skinned black entertainer).”

I have had white men say some similar corny things to me before, like say you are pretty for a black girl or ask me what is different about sleeping with a black woman.
I am currently dating a white guy who hasn’t even mentioned my race yet which is refreshing.

I agree peanut people can resemble across racial lines, I for example think that gary dourdan resembled brad pitt & kerry washington resembles scarlett johansson. I have been told I look like katherine heigl & jessica alba & I am half black & white, but mostly I have been compared to any brown famous women people can think of.

I’m a white man. No matter the skin color of anyone and eithic background. WE all have emotions, likes and dislikes. We all bond together as a society, but within our society we’re all an indiviual. Many black men and woman are beautiful inside and out, as well and many white men and woman. What I believe has very much improved over the years is a more comfortable relaxed attitude towards mixed skim color relationships. There still is a very long ways to go, but mixed skin color relationships are more acceptable nowadays as they should be. No matter the person’s skin color words like self character, intergrity, truth, trust, etc. should be strong within each and everyone of else no matter what the color of a person’s skin is.

might I assume that you are somehow attracting the wrong men? I have dated white men for over 10 years and I have NEVER been told any of those things. Also i have a number of black girlfriends who have or are dating white men and they never been told anywhere near those things. I won;t say these are made up but I’ll just will wonder where do you find these guys.

I have told black women I find them more attractive, they give me me less bullshit, I even call them chocolate bunnies and they like it. Black women are the most erotic creatures on earth and the womb of humanity. An average white man has a better chance of getting a good black woman than any white woman because a higher percentage of black women will date him. WHite guysare afraid that black women have had a lot of big black cocks, I don’t care. My son’s mother is black and even though we no longer together I believe that a white man is better off with a black woman. When a white marries a white he gets divorced over 50% of the time, with a black woman 20%. Black women are the best, the most beautiful and kindest women on earth. Sometimes white guys mayunintentionally be rude to you because we are overcome with lust.

I know I’m one of the very few that can actually TALK to a woman without checking out (or concentrating on) her boobs and her ass. I prefer to get know a woman because of her character, her personality, her sense of self, and many other factors. I will be the first to admit that I am more strongly attracted to black women simply because they carry themselves with pride, dignity, and a solid and strong sense of identity, self-assurance, and independence. I LIKE THAT. It’s attractive. It’s appealing. Do I dislike dating white women? Not at all. I’m proud of who I am and where I come from. I just choose to look past skin pigmentation and look for the true beauty inside a woman her soul: her soul … who she is and what she stands for.

The color of one’s skin? That shit doesn’t matter to me. We all bleed red and when the lights go out, we’re all one color. So don’t buy into this simple-minded ridiculousness that all white men are “blue-eyed devils” and “crave the forbidden fruit”. That? That’s just some old gal who’s bitter, cynical, and jaded … and probably has been burned more times than she wants to admit to everyone.

There ARE white men – just as there are black men, Latin men, Asian men, WHATEVER – who know how to treat women with respect and dignity. Don’t believe the hype … because it’s bullshit. Total bullshit.

Y’all need to quit believin’ this kind of nonsense simply because it’s unbecoming and it’s what holds our thinking – our way of life – back. There are just as many skanky, unbecoming, unrefined white women as there are from any other race, color, creed, and ethnicity. To limit one’s self to this sort of antiquated, imbecilic rhetoric is just … sad, really.

The lady I’m in love with? She’s a black woman. And from everything that I know of her … we make a perfect fit, regardless of the fact that her skin is darker than mine or that my irises are grayish- blue and hers are this enticing, hypnotizing shade of brown with honeyed flecks of dark ember. She is my queen …

Now, dear ladies … this is a REAL white man speaking … not some hormonal, uneducated, and ignorant TURD you encountered at a gas station, a club, a grocery store, or anywhere. I’m the white man that keeps to himself and just observes how beautiful a woman really is, regardless of the color of her skin.

You just resorted to the most,dismissive racist trope that reeks of nothing but sexism. You are not special for not being a White,Racially misogynistic pig because you still benefit from a society built for and dominated by White,racially misogynistic pigs.

This is a lot more serious than being “behind the times” like flip-phone users vs touchscreen phone users. This is racial HISTORY that has to do with the objectification of Black women which has and still does lead towards battery and rape. To fetishize is to dehumanize,and when we do such,we create a society that has a very casual attitude towards harassment and abuse of underpriviledged women.

REAL White males DO harass,abuse,and sexually violate Black women. This is not some figment of the Black woman’s imagination. You do not go out with a squeaky clean image because you showed basic human decency not to slap the first Black female ass you saw on the street. You are apart of a society and it is your responsibility not to have such a casual azz’d attitude towards Black women discussing and describing RACIALIZED MISOGYNY,especially as someone who has a Black woman in his life and is his queen.

You speak of “We all bleed red”,well some of us bleed more than others,and it’s best to look into why instead of parroting Colorblind garbage you heard on some cheesy 90s tv show that alieviates your White guilt but does nothing for the Black women in your life you claim to give a crap about.

This is a lie. Maybe a Black man wrote this up using the thoughts of his homies, but no white man with at least an average IQ would talk this way to any woman. I served 6-years in the military, two of them in hard combat, and heard some pretty outlandish desires, claims, and comments about women, but I have to say I can’t imagine anything like this list being said by a white guy to any woman. This does not make sense to me. If I’m dating a Black woman, it is because she gave me a buzz, you know that little high when we crossed paths the first time, so I want to know her better. Maybe I hope to hold hands with her latter, maybe even get a smooch on the next date. And if we keep dating I want to, you know, lie with her–I am a man ya know–so why show ignorance and disrespect to a woman with stuff like this. I will say that if any woman has heard this from ANY man, you need to work on your selection process.

Well the other point I should make is while in service, I was more direct with women, but they didn’t exactly behave in a manner that demanded or even hinted at respect. My disrespect amounted to asking them if they wanted to go home with me (Which meant “Do you wanna take me home”; or “Do you want to go to a hotel for the night”?) and the answer was either Yes, No, or get me another drink. If you’re receiving such unacceptable comments as on the list, you should examine your advertising.

No it is not always on the Black woman and that was not what I said nor imply. I’ve been around long enough in places around the world where activity by women (White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Jewish, German, American, etc.) is intentionally provocative and that solicits comments as on the list. I’m saying in polite society the list is Bull. And I say you have been trashed talked to by Black males far more than white males even allowing for women who grew up in Black communities. As a white man, what could I possibly gain by speaking to ANY women like that. I can’t speak for anyone but myself and I know I’m not going to get laid by behaving that way and I have no reason on earth to try and keep a Black women in her place under my thumb. There is only one class of man who wants you subservient to him; find him and you’ll have the answer. Peace too you and Merry Christmas, Peanut.

Interesting post, Abagond. I just wish I had read it years ago when it was first published, but no matter. The only time I can recall being spoken to in this fashion by a white man was some years ago when I was younger. It now reminds me of the song “Scrubs”, because the dude was sitting in the passenger seat of his friend’s pickup truck and had the nerve to ask me if I performed a certain sexual act that begins with the letter H. I was walking down the street minding my own business and got taken completely by surprise. I didn’t answer him and kept walking. The could only marvel at the nerve of some people.

Most men I’ve encountered in my experience, no matter what race or nationality, have mostly been polite or indifferent. A few have acted inappropriately, but I’m sure most people have experienced that. There have been several white men I have met in my time, however, who have been some of the nicest and most gentlemanly men I have ever met, and that is a fact. But most of the men I call gentlemen have been black, simply because I have spent most of my life around my own race.

eh right now, the alpha thing to say is, according to me, “tell your man he drawin” uh, other than that, i had something… oh right, “i never met a girl like you” that could work, i was talking to someone today, real country girl from sc, it was true

I think this blog is pathetic because it is supposed to be about black people yet we are so concerned about what whites , particularly , white men think. I don’t give white men the time of day. Nor do I care about what they think about me or my race.I don;t find them sexually attractive nor interesting. “shrugs” I know there are exceptions to every rule but so far, have not seen any, that’s just me.

Well the other point I should make is while in service, I was more direct with women, but they didn’t exactly behave in a manner that demanded or even hinted at respect. My disrespect amounted to asking them if they wanted to go home with me (Which meant “Do you wanna take me home”; or “Do you want to go to a hotel for the night”?) and the answer was either Yes, No, or get me another drink. If you’re receiving such unacceptable comments as on the list, you should examine your advertising.

Ur living in a fantasy world … Ain;t no black woman attracted to u and u know it..Ur hatred of the black woman comes from ur inherent knowledge that u occupy the bottom of a black woman’s list of priorities and u couldn’t even buy the average black woman a drink, ain;t nobody checkin; for u and u know it.lol.. Get real and snap out of this fantasy world u live in where u really believe that ur so desirable. Black women have great credit ratings, we don;t need u.

An average white man has a better chance of getting a good black woman than any white woman because a higher percentage of black women will date him

So not true, black women would rather be with a thug brother than a white man, let me explain something very basic to u, the black woman finds the white man to be repugnant.From a hygienic standpoint, ur just unclean.U smell funny u have disgusting habits, ur inherently amoral ur skin is euuuuwww.we do not fnd u attractive!! Unless u r Paul Walker or Colin Farrell, keep it moving!! Abd white women have the lowest standards on planet earth.they will go out with any man child molester, freak, loser, fatsos.. C’mon. Look @ the black men they deal with.. It’s farcical!!

I am approached by white men regularly, if they are cool, I’m cool. But if they approach me with that smug, “Oh, I got this in the bag” crap they get crushed because i put them on ignore and embarass the hell out of them..lol.

I get to know women, before I, “approach” them, and when I do “approach” one she is a woman of quality. It has been many years since I scavenger hunted in bars and clubs for a woman so I don’t even want to know what it takes to, “hook up”. I do quite well with women who are intelligent, educated, take care of them selves, have nice firm and trim figures, and resent being called hoes, bitc***, and other vile names. They don’t appreciate being cuffed around by those same so-called men either. I date who I want, from Far Eastern Asian ladies, to Black US and Caribe women, Latinas, and even a white woman if she measures up.

Sleep it off. Of course you know the quality Black women are leaving the BC for the ‘burbs and they date and marry white men. Since they are the crème of the crop, they are welcomed and appreciated. See, real men like myself stand by their women and helps raise the kids and do a little around the house. Oh yea, most of us have 40 hour a week jobs that pays well above average. But hey, if you like hanging with the bunch who enjoys killing each other, at 800% the murder rates of whites, knock yourself out. I do thank your men for taking our fat and ugly WW off of our hands and out of our communities . . . it sort of has the same effect as urban renewal not to even mention they usually take out crazier women too. You should like that also, after all, no real competition from white women that can think and look like women, eh?

U.S. combined household income has been havering around $50k for the last few years. That doesn’t sound like most of you have jobs that pays well above average.

If you want to argue that Whites in general are doing better financially than Blacks, then Do Duh… But if you wish to paint White men, in general, as wealthy or well off, then that will not work. Most wealthy people in the U.S. are White, but most White people are not wealthy or even upper middle class.

But hey, if you like hanging with the bunch who enjoys killing each other, at 800% the murder rates of whites, knock yourself out.”

I dunno. The “White bunch” did a pretty good job of killing each other during the Civil War, then again in World War I, and then again in World War II. The Whites in the Soviet Union did a great job of killing each other under Stalin. The Serbs and Bosnians seemed do a pretty good of it to in the Croatian War. They also do a pretty good job of stealing each other blind, on unprecedented levels, as demonstrated by the 2008 World financial crash.

Seriously, if you really are dating or married to a Black woman, does she know that you’re on here spouting this nonsense? Wow, what a catch she got in you!

So this is the “White Prince” from the suburbs to which successful Black women flee.

I mean, from what he’s written so far, does darling Donny strike you as the “liberated White thinker” he paints himself to be? Or does he fall back upon the same old prejudices, stereotypes, and racial belittlement, to which White racists have always retreated when they have no intelligent argument to make?

What fascinates me is that such people actually invasion themselves to be the saviors of the educated Black woman. I have no problem with WM/BW couples, just as long as the guy is not hiding the Racist beneath his thinly applied and hastily assumed veneer of temporary civility.

@ King: Yes, the whole thing made my antennae go up. I was not sure who are what this commenter was. I too don’t have a problem with IRR unions, per se. But, I don’t appreciate disingenuous commentary, such what was post by that commenter.

Insinuate? Do you know what these words mean when you use them. I insinuate nothing. Maybe you should listen closely to those hip hop “artists” you idolize and hear, but seemingly don’t understand the words. Those aren’t white men writing the lyrics or slinging them. And I’m sure you have never listened to Chris Rock’s or some other Black so-called comedian’s opinion of Black women? The truth is, most Black males have ZERO self-respect and had none for their mama, so they don’t have respect for their women either. “I have no problem with WM/BW couples, . . . ” Now there is a load of BS if I have ever heard it. You get infuriated when you see a high stepping, intelligent, educated Black woman with anyone not Black. I’ve seen it and a couple times a few brothers thought they were hard men, but they fold quicker than boiled spaghetti. The Black woman is your fall back, but they now know how useless you are and how much HIV/AIDS you have. They think it is because you’re all closet gays–bisexuals at best–and spent to much time with each other in prison. That’s something when your own women think they have been displaced by a man. Keep living the myth, you’re one of the few who still believe it. Man, you guys have destroyed your race here in the US. Destroyed it!

“I mean, from what he’s written so far, does darling Donny strike you as the “liberated White thinker” he paints himself to be”? Let me answer for you, slick: Why does it take a “liberated white thinker” to love a woman? I was just working away and looked up to see this beautiful Black woman coming through my office door and bells and lights started going off in my head. I didn’t even realize she was Black until I had stood up and tried to say something. And just because I am attracted to upper end Black women it has nothing to do with being a liberal or “liberated white thinker”, and every thing to do with attraction, sex appeal, shared life goals, mutual respect, and a quality person. Oh. I don’t need your approval either just like I don’t give a spit if you approve of WM and BW dating, marrying, having kids, or just living together. It is none of your business, pally.

OK, I realize that this isn’t really worth the trouble… but sometimes, I just can’t resist engaging a nincompoop! It’s a personal weakness, I know.

Insinuate? Do you know what these words mean when you use them.”

Yes dummy, I well understand the words I’m saying… the question is, do you?

Insinuate means: to suggest or hint (something bad or reprehensible) in an indirect and unpleasant way.

You see, when you say,

“That’s right Mary, get down and beg for forgiveness”
You are *insinuating* that Mary is not intelligent enough to respond based on her own judgement of the facts, but is instead responding out of fear.

Just as an example… I could go on with many more examples, but what’s the point?

Maybe you should listen closely to those hip hop “artists” you idolize and hear, but seemingly don’t understand the words.”

The rest is just far too boring and obvious to respond to. With every layer peeled the onion that is you stinks a little stronger. You sound like a bitter little White man with no girlfriend, desperately trying to get back at the Black boyfriend who just dumped you the minute you both got out of prison.

See there? THAT was “insinuation.”
Are you wondering if I’m laughing at you… because I am 🙂

Well, I think Donny Brook’s agenda is pretty twisted. He comes on the blog and spouts his racist diatribe and insults black men, under the guise of having admiration for black women. That is what is so messed up about his commentary. That’s pretty sick to me. He is nothing but a racist pure and simple.

That is white supremacy and white priviledge all him thinking that he’s better for the black woman than the black man, that is just the epitome of arrogance. Thinking, he is the white knight to come and save the black woman from in his twisted mind, the lowly black man. I am just shaking my head. This Donny Brook character, needs to get out of here with that garbage.

Mock Ebonics??? Maybe a typo, but mock Ebonics is BS and you know it. Why would anyone want to use Ebonics and sound like those who speak Ebonics. It is not a language you know. So cough up this mock made-up Ebonics I used. Why didn’t you just bleep out the word or sentence? I know why, you just can’t argue the statement, the facts, or the issue, so you use some bogus escape to avoid it. It is okay, I am right and attractive Black women of intelligence, education are leaving the Black men in droves never to return. You can make anything up you want, but WM and the valuable, high-quality Black women know it.

Maybe you insinuate things, I don’t. I meant exactly what I said to Mary. You must think that the verbal and physical abuse you level at Black women goes un-noticed, but it doesn’t. Tell me what I’m insinuating here: Black men have a history of abandoning their children, behaving inconsiderately and dangerously toward their women, and play word games to avoid admitting it. In very plain, impolite speech I could just say the majority of Black males are not men, Two ways of saying the same thing. In Mary’s case I was pointing out that she was doing what you wanted to avoid your worthless wrath.

I think you all are living in some alternate universe. Hello? Does reality ever cross your minds. Get out of denial: Black Americans are the laughing stock of the Black Race. All ya all do is talk a good game, but you don’t ever get in the game. You sit it out, because you know you’re losers. A lurker from Beyond Black and White is on much more solid ground than a lurker, such as you, from One Step Beyond (anything). I gotta say, never have I encountered more desperate people than I have here. ” Dream on, Dream on, Ghetto Queen, saner girls I have seen”

“Black men have a history of abandoning their children, behaving inconsiderately and dangerously toward their women, and play word games to avoid admitting it”

U sure u want to go there? black men spend the most time with their kids out of every race of men that do not live with their kids. Black men have not kept black women from having the right to vote or work but i do recall white men keeping white women as well as poc from voting and working certain jobs.White men have abandoned their kids as well, let’s not forget during slavery and jim crow white men created the one drop rule to absolve themselves of having to take care of their biracial offspring as well as to keep their race pure. white men are the original American baby daddies. I question whether u are a white man or just some person posing as one colalover or asplund is that u?

The whole argument of intelligent attractive black women leaving black men is laughable black people of every class tend to date other black people . attractiveness is objective a black woman that is attractive to a white man is not always a black woman that is attractive to a black man, Asian man, latino man, etc.

Sounds like a lurker from Beyond Black & White who decided to post under a white man identity…”

Sounds more like a lurker from Bed Bath & Beyond to me.. but whatever.

It’s just an interesting dichotomy to me (if an patently unoriginal one).

One hand held out to “the cream of the crop” Black female, the other hand concealing the dagger to use upon Black men and overweight and ugly White women. Amazing.

-he believes that Black women who achieve hold no ties to those in the Black community who have not achieve as highly.

-he believes that Black men, whom he doesn’t know, are sure to listen to hip-hop, and call Black women “ho’s and bitc*es” because that’s normal to them!

-he believes that Black men are all opposed to IR relationships without exception

-he believes that Black men do not respect their own mothers.

Simply Fascinating!

But let’s go a little deeper”

From his comments upthread:

I date who I want, from Far Eastern Asian ladies, to Black US and Caribe women, Latinas, and even a white woman if she measures up.

EVEN White women?… Ladies, does that make you feel comfortable, or uncomfortable?

Here’s another gem:

I was just working away and looked up to see this beautiful Black woman coming through my office door and bells and lights started going off in my head. I didn’t even realize she was Black until I had stood up and tried to say something.

Seriously? Is he vision impaired? The ultimate colorblind non-racist, he can’t even tell when he’s looking directly at a Black woman if she’s Black or not. Ladies, does that make you feel comfortable, or uncomfortable?

And finally:

I do thank your men for taking our fat and ugly WW off of our hands and out of our communities . . . it sort of has the same effect as urban renewal”

Wow, what a heart this guy has! Getting rid of those he deems “fat and ugly” is like an urban beautification project! Seriously? Get them out of “our communities!” And this is the same dullard who is complaining about how poorly Black men treat Black women based on multiple viewings of Hustle and Flow. Ladies does that make you feel comfortable, or uncomfortable?

And the thing is, this guy is actually so stupid that he doesn’t have the slightest notion how deep he’s digging his own grave. In his own small, and crowded mind, he is showing off and saying thing that make him look good! It’s almost comical! It’s really not necessary to insult this guy. All you have to do is repeat the things he’s already said and his w=own words make the Fool apparent.

As to all ur questions i’d say uncomfortable, if a guy feels the need to say i’d date women that look like me only if they measure up or feels the need to raise the standards for certain women but not all oh no, I wouldn’t mess with a guy like that.

The colorblind bs of I didn’t even know she was black would make me feel uncormfortable, did she hide her blackness? was she a white looking black woman and u couldn’t tell right away until she said btw i’m black. that just falls into the I don’t see a (insert other race) woman I just see a woman, as if some people can’t love somebody as a whole person, but have to discard half of their identity to be able to feel better about being with them.

as for the last one I guess we should thank people like him as well for taking the brainwashed black people off our hands that think his comments about black people is acceptable and would deal with such craziness.

If you’re going to try lying to me go away. What about the 3 Black males, with 78 kids spread over 46 women. Three men=26 kids fathered by each one. They don’t pay a dime of support so don’t tell me how much time they spend with their kids. They are the extremes, yes I know that, but you have 17 and 18 year old girls with three kids with three fathers, or two fathers and often as not, the fathers are 26 to 30 year old child rapists. Lie to yourself, but no one else is buying.http://thegrio.com/2012/06/15/3-tennessee-men-fathered-78-children-paying-little-child-support/

He comes off a sleazy, deceptive, manipulative, and arrogant. All it would take is one good argument to get darling Donny to remind a Black woman just how Black she was, and I can tell you, he wouldn’t have any trouble seeing it.

Get out of denial: Black Americans are the laughing stock of the Black Race. All ya all do is talk a good game, but you don’t ever get in the game. You sit it out, because you know you’re losers.”

That’s an extreme example; but mstoogood4yall is correct. Black men spend more time with their children in those kinds of scenario’s than non-black men…..in the US anyways.

7-9 out of 10 divorces are initiated by women, if non-marital relationships being ended is anything close to it; than the broken home scenario most of the time isn’t the fault of the man. At least; not for initiating divorce or breaking up with the woman in question.

Though I suppose on one hand; an aspect of your argument is true.

Interracial marriages are happening more and I believe on average the BW in the relationship earns something like 30% more than the WM.

On the other hand; I believe that BW are actually less likely to have sex and kids at younger ages/teens that’s its basically in the 20’s that they start the having lots of kids angle. Which if they are in a stable relationship…..why not?

On the “other” other hand; economically speaking the black race is doing better and 8/10 are middle class and up plus the crime rate is beginning to plunge down a bit.

If it were crime and money making the change for interracial relationships….than it would have happened way before now.

Most likely its because black men date out more leaving some of the not quite elite black women in the cold.

BW dating out is like those white guys who go to eastern European or Asian countries seeking out a bride.

They could get a white woman of “okay” value you might say but they want the best than can get so they maximize their value by taking advantage of their american privilege.

Sorry Dude. But there is not one single DA in the US who agrees with you. And that includes a lot of Black ones. The average, or mean Black father does not pay child support and is in the wind as far as the kids are concerned. The exceptions are for married Black couples who were in a loving relationship at one time and just couldn’t make it work. The men know they are fathers and know it has responsibilities.

pretty much he is an insult to black people and to white males that are with black women that don’t have his mentality. I guess he thought the divide and conquer tactic would work. oh if I could just say one is better than the other and put one down over the other they will back me up and join in attacking. Sorry that don’t work here it may work somewhere else like bwe or tommy but not here.
No self respecting black person would feel flattered to be told they are not like the other blacks or be ok with someone attacking people that look like them, their father or their mother. U can’t say black men or black women are no good but date a black man or black woman, why? because we are connected, we come from each other, u attack black men u are attacking black women’s fathers, brothers and male relatives therefore attacking part of black women, u attack black women u are attacking black men’s mothers, sisters and female relatives therefore attacking a part of black men. if it wasn’t for a black man u wouldn’t have ur real or imagined black woman as last I checked a woman can’t reproduce without a man and vice versa. And if u marry a woman u ask her father for her hand out of respect no real woman will be with a man that does not respect the man that made her and took care of her and that was there for her before u came and will be there after u leave.

Trying to buy your way into the brotherhood? You don’t know me and for you to make an asinine remark that someone you don’t know and have never met is a racist puts your IQ at 7 points below a box of hammers,

Then as per your claim then you would need to provided evidence as to what every DA in the united states believes or agrees with. In fact every DA I am aware of does not deal with family court cases (this is where they would have knowledge of what man does and does not pay child support and it would still be pretty limited to the scope of cases they deal with).

I would also like to direct you to this nice insert that appears in the beginning of this post:

Here are some racist things that commenter Black&German and her friends have heard white men say to them as black women

Someone actually heard white men say these things so I guess you really have no point to make or atleast one I did not care enough to find in your post.

@V4: Of course you’re right. Only 73% of 13 to 19-year old Black girls have at least one out of wedlock baby, and many of those girls have two and three. The prime age for this child bearing is 14, 15, and 16. Wake up and get the facts.

LOL! So true! After reading so many posts from BW commenting on the gorgeousness of Paul Walker (RIP), I had to do a search on the guy. Not exactly my cup of tea, but (he was) an all right looking guy all the same.

Of course; I guess an argument could be made that “active in their child’s lives” and paying child support isn’t the same thing. It could even be why they don’t feel like paying child support. After all if they are already active and participating in their kid’s lives than why should they be paying more money on the side?

Actually looking it up your right; black teenagers are second to Hispanic ones in the pregnancy rate.

These BW didn’t manage to get the “elite” Black Men and they don’t want to settle for getting any less than they can get so they date out of the race.

The WM may not be on the same level as the elite Black Men but they will have secondary racial advantages transferred to their children that will help make up for it.

Basically; BW use their economic advantage to get a higher level of mate than they would get in their own social circles. Even if that mate is economically below them like eastern European/Asian brides for white men they still bring the genetic advantage/social advantage to make up for it.

Basically if a BW has to date second-rung/tier people she’ll start to look out of the race due to the potential advantage of race whereas optimally she would want an elite black male she’ll settle for a second tier white male as compared to a second tier black male and will use her economic advantage to help secure the relationship.

Donny said. “Only 73% of 13 to 19-year old Black girls have at least one out of wedlock baby, and many of those girls have two and three. The prime age for this child bearing is 14, 15, and 16. Wake up and get the facts.”

A report by the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention shows that the teen birth rate for African Americans has declined by 60 percent between 1991 and 2011 – a rate 10 percent greater than the overall dip in teen birth rates.” What that means is Black women’s birth rates have declined 10% faster then the other two groups white and Hispanic. It also shows Hispanics having higher out of wed lock birth rates then blacks.

You can pull up the CDC report in PDF from their website and get these statistics. (National Vital Statistics Reports Volume 62, Number 1 June 28, 2013 Births: Final Data for 2011) .

The report shows that since 1965 non martial births have increased in every race in proportion to the 1965 ratio and topped in 2007. Since 2007 each group has declined 2% a year in non martial births. The report also shows teen age births dropping significantly with blacks having a 60% reduction in teen age births over the last ten years. The 2011 statistics show that 32.3 % of white women, 63.7% of black women and 75.1% of Hispanic women have non martial births. 58% of these non martial births are in cohabitating relationships meaning their is a man around. In other words less people are marrying and more people are having children out of wedlock. The report also shows a significant drop in married couple having children in part because the children preexisted the marriage. What were looking at is a cultural change and if you look at Europe the same trend is happening their and is reflected in greater numbers among white women. Iceland has the highest rate of non martial births coming in around 63% in their mostly white population. That’s double of what it is in America and is almost identical to American blacks. Considering that Iceland’s police shot and killed one civilian in it’s entire history I’d say it’s not possible to draw a correlation between non martial births and crime.

I’ve been reading the comments of this Donny Brook “fella”. “He” sounds like a Black woman from some BWE site. Remember people I have a nose for this. I called out Asplund’s supposed African girlfriend as a sock puppet, and right now my sock puppet senses are tingling…

” Every country has one. If you don’t know what you’re yaking about, don’t yak.”—Perhaps you need to take your own advice here. If I am not mistaken you made the claim, and let me quote it as to make no mistake, that ” But there is not one single DA in the US who agrees with you.” We are not talking about every “country” as you so tried to slip in but the US or USA or America so as not to get you confused.

Now on to some facts. District Attorney, Child Support Divisions are not Country based but state based. Some states have them and some just don’t. Some have another name for the divisions and so forth. Either way you still can not prove the erroneous claim you made up above and that I have taken the liberty to quote for you. Now …how is it you put it….”If you don’t know what you’re yaking about, don’t yak.” 🙂

You made this claim ” The average, or mean Black father does not pay child support and is in the wind as far as the kids are concerned” In which you would need to provided evidence of such as well as evidence that every DA in the US (ie USA or America) agrees with it.

@Jadapoo1

You may be right or it could also be another psycho that fails to read and/or comprehend what a post says and gets offended and goes on a rant. I think I will vote sock puppet in this case though.

These BW didn’t manage to get the “elite” Black Men and they don’t want to settle for getting any less than they can get so they date out of the race.

V-4, you need to understand that the vast majority of Black men of all classes marry Black women, and Black men who are upper middle and upper class (with a yearly income of 100,000k or more) have Black wives–like 88% of them.

In a nutshell, wealthy Black men are paired with Black women. Contrary to racist, popular belief– in general, non Black women do not get first dabs on eligible Black men.

You didn’t say white women specifically, but you did insinuate that higher income/wealthy Black men are more likely to not marry Black women–which is false.

And, how did you come to the conclusion that Black women (especially higher income Black women) date/marry white men because that is all that’s available? The majority of higher income people marry other higher income people within their race. Black men and women are no exception to this…

‘It wasn’t about the majority of black women; just the ones who date out.”

So ALL black women who “date out” do so based on the class of the other race. That’s a pretty broad statement to make.

What exactly is a “second tier level mate” ?

“Using their economic advantage they will go for a second-tier white man due to his racial advantages as compared to a second tier black man”

I think that’s speculative. Some people might think like that but I’ve never heard of black women dating white guys because of their “racial advantage”. I’ve seen old rich white guys with young Asian wives where that might be true. But I don’t think it’s true for the majority of interracial relationships. People who date outside their race are either comfortable with it or they don’t date out side their race. And it’s pretty normal for people to date within their class because those are usually the same social circles they hang out in.

“its about maximizing the value of their potential mate.”

Sounds like gold digging to me. If your dating somebody because they fit some kind of race fetish or income requirement that relationship is due to fail or its an unhealthy one.

“BW dating out is like those white guys who go to eastern European or Asian countries seeking out a bride.”

I don’t agree with that analogy. Men who do that have a race fetish or have the money to “buy” a bride that fits their fantasy. To suggest Black women do similar seems to me to be demeaning to black women.

I think black women with upward mobility who date outside their race do so because they have become comfortable with the idea and choose too.

The cultural of white supremacy tends towards self segregation because of how society defines things. Upward mobility allows people more choices and they realize that they don’t have to do what they have been taught to do.

Upward mobility allows people more choices and they realize that they don’t have to do what they have been taught to do.

I would also add to this–that modern societies tend to be set up where higher income people will marry other higher income people, likewise with middle/working class, and lower income people…

It is unlikely that many higher earning Black women come across lower income men of ALL races, be it at work, school or in their neighborhoods, restaurants and etc…which is why i always give the *side-eye* when people claim that professional Black women (physicians, attorneys, teachers, accountants etc.) date “thugs” or Black men with little earning potential…

Oh the postings are hilarious I just happened on this. Some of you on here is right and some so dead wrong. The pictures mean nothing. Nothing at all. It is the times people, education and wrong stereotypes are some of the barriers to cheating Black women out of really nice white guys. And yes, Black guys do treat black women differently from White guys. I have dated both, Black Guys seem to have a sense of entitlement, some of them as if we are supposed to be glad they are here and appreciative that they have not been around the block, while white guys have more of an appreciation as in…I might be the lucky one here. Some White guys like the attention it gives them, Black and White are so contrasted that you won’t be able to get past many people without both white guy and black woman being scrutinized, admired maybe for the gumption, and honestly it is more exciting that way sometimes. All guys are different. When they are interested in a woman, they react, period. A woman must be receptive and intuitive to know when a guy is sending you all the right signals. It is all how they see you, how they identify with beauty and lets face it, you can’t take beauty or passion away from someone. White guys are different now, because they are allowed to act on their impulses without the repercussions of slavery coming after them. It is up to black women to put themselves out their better. Attract the kind of guy you want by being who you are. Its so okay to test the waters.

Nowhere in the post does it say ALL or even MOST White men act this way. But some clearly have. Would you rather we remain silent, here and in the White History Month posts, for the sake of your feelings?

Every time I see White men, I am reminded of the fact that we have to have European DNA because of their perversion. My own father would not even share his test info with us because of the ghastly amount of European DNA that he had inherited; I am glad that there is independent assortment, as my chances of having a lower percentage are highly probable with my mom’s mix. I am reminded of the Black men who were hung from trees, burned, castrated (one was forced to eat his testicles: https://www.albany.edu/womensstudies/journal/2004/cooley.html), and beaten. I am reminded of the fathers who were sold, the children who were denied their mothers’ breasts, and the women who were raped before their husbands’ very eyes. Jim Crow was not any better. Working as maids, Black women could be raped and their children missed out on the basic decencies of life that a mother gives due to time (My grandmother could not even raise my father because of her work as a maid, in which she had to raise a White girl before my father). Black men were denied jobs, access to labor unions, and respect (They had to call even the lowest White man “Mr.” whilst he could be called “boy”). White men are still the most racist collective of people this earth has ever known– everything that they have created and perpetuate shows this, and they have been the most chaotic thing to traumatize Black women’s bodies and those of their cousins, sons, fathers, uncles, and brothers. This is still the case including the abuse that Black men inflict on Black women, which is disproportionate and horrific. And they still think that Black women want them? Would someone willingly allow themselves to be so thusly infected? Someone who looks like my great grandmother’s owner, my grandmother’s boss, and my mother’s racist colleague? Again, these men do not seem to live in reality. It is not a compliment to be liked by own of their kind. The pain that they inflicted on our race is too great. No other group, save First Nations people, Aborigines, and Mestizos (The latter group seems happy about being like Malinche, the noble savage), has endured anything similar.

No one is denying the existence of individual White men who are either or both tolerable and acceptable (never understandable), but the majority of them make me happy that they prefer harassing Asian women, who will be more likely to reciprocate their behavior. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting. Choosing not to forget means striving for the justice that has been denied for centuries. Justice is a proper atonement and healing period that our people must be given, yet we have not been.

P.S.- Aba, I understand if you have to delete this. I admit that I am racist towards White men, and I do not intend to change that. And to the Black women who are with White men, my assumption is that you choose to be with men, not White men. However, if that is not how they express themselves, then I would get the hell out of dodge.

Perversion: the forced practice of sexualized racism and the subsequent aftermath such as rape of Black women and girls, especially that without impunity.

No. That does not exist, as I know it. Attraction is merely a game that is heavily influenced by your perceptions of notions fed to you whether you live in New York or the Amazon. That is the beauty of living in a conveniently packaged society but also the downfall of not being the first humans on Earth. You get choices that are limited to beliefs that are already made available to you by your predecessors. Even “breaking the code” is but one of these choices, albeit less traveled. Ultimately, I assume that you mean sexual attraction, which is common for some people. I believe it to be conditioned though. Men do not inherently find breasts sexual nor do they think of sex if they are not taught it. Think Blue Lagoon and some tribes across the world.

Masculinity and feminity ought to be in all people in terms of them being spirits of thought. In other words, people should possess strength whilst also being carrying. It is simply the manifestation of such energies that is bound to vary due to culturally ties.

Lol, heterosexual? I have no issues with them in procedure, but they can be rather cruel concerning homosexuals in practice. Really, it sucks to be the “odd” one out whether race or sexuality. And it is hard for me to believe it to be inherently wrong because of a culture that I grew up in that is going to make me biased about it. I want to bear children, with a man, the “natural” way, but I expect someone who can be more of a enrich them with thought food rather than real food, which means that I am not really a conformist in terms of sexuality. Still, the convenience of not having to be the first to make a cultural framework is available to most people save feral children. You can be mediocre and love it.

Reality, great question… trees and birds (the beings, not the names), but never whether I ought to use a fork before that of chopsticks… Lol. That is too greatly shaped by my cultural perspective. And I admit, my post is greatly biased because I can empathize with Black women of the past like no other group on this Earth can, which is obvious. It is the worst thing about attempting to be objective– it is nigh impossible once it becomes more than a “this is” statement. I can give you a fact, but if I say that birds have wingspans greater than 10 inches, then maybe I live near birds that have longer wings such as eagles versus Robins. Everything that I know is shaped by something else, which is why people with grandiose delusions are so unfathomable. It has just never been thought of before so much so that they are infamous for them such as Manson’s Helter Skelter. I love the Grecians and hate them at the same time for philosophy and my fave, logic.

What is reality to you, Nagpo? By the way, caucasian is not the same as European, but I love the reference to African wombs… versus say “Black American wombs”. I am honored that even though we are quite watered down in America now, the African womb was still a thing even during a time when it was so greatly disconnected.

Not in the slightest, Nagpo, but I believe it to be the most common and likely cause for most African Americans, Caribbeans, and Afro-Brazilians. With the way that Anglos and Spaniards approached race, it is very obvious how they purposefully sought to sexualize Black women for their own gain– keep the power over Black men (all), make more slaves (America), and get some p*ssy (all…) in that order. We accept things as is without questioning what the implications of such actions are. I can assure you that there were White men who grew up thinking that Black girls’ opinions of sex did not matter so much so that they could not even grasp that it was rape, but that does not excuse it– much like the lynching. Collectively, they also pretended to asexualize them with mammy whilst the likes of Harriet Jacobs, Celia Newsome, Recy Taylor, Ruby McCollum, and Joan Little were not anomalies of their time. It is really painful knowing that their means to do this was to either blame Black girls and women by something that they supposedly innately possess like a slut gene or claim that they were just so unattractive to rape, which says a lot about two common rape myths and the contradictory mindset of White men. It is why White people will invariably be more “demonic” because they have no reason to question the accepted lack of humanity that they have when they are fine with what they get out of it. Some people just coast through life and that is why I am happy to be Black and because I love what we have offered to the world that gives us little in return for it… I would have no reason to question anything if I were White whilst still being in the upper class even as a woman, but it would be odd. People are meant to progress. I think that that is the greatest barrier that we have to “animalhood”. Just as English is individual-centered, we can see that Korean is collective centered because of the lack of subjects in many sentences and direct translations that would be “child-like” in English because it differs from our mother tongue. We simply do not make a habit of realizing the former over the latter because we have grown up using English rather than othering what we have not, which is why most people are basically just complacent whereas Galileo was not.

Also, it is often merely the notion of it concerning DNA tests. When White people get DNA tests that show African DNA, the assumption simply cannot be that a White woman was raped, as history has shown that it was not the case up until Jim Crow for Black men to rape White women despite it being a favorite trope for opportunistic racists who clearly have no concern over the women being raped in comparison to their “Mighty White Egos” nor is rape always going to result in children. It has to be large enough for that to even happen even with chance, much like a normal distribution that factors in an X number of trials. Imagine enough rapes to produce enough children to pass down enough European DNA that allows this society to believe that 20% is a good estimate. It is, however, likely that some people “passed” as White, as many of my family members had, and transferred African DNA that-a-way. For Black people, on the other hand, the DNA is just too greatly linked to a power imbalance during slavery and Jim Crow that would render it justifiable to believe that most of said DNA came from rape whether it is 5 rapes down the line or one rape with independent assortment conveniently favoring European DNA. As well, I am too baffled by the rape apologists who claim that it was consensual. You could argue that sex slaves and drug-addicted prostitutes also engage in such sex, but the fact of the matter is that there is some negative enabler like a killer “pimp” or the drugs that make me think that it is as easy a decision to make as eating your favorite food. There is no automatic slut gene or attitude gene in Black women, as it is not inherently shared by the women in places like Nigeria and Cameroon where much of the African DNA comes from. It is just a convenient stereotype to fap off to using confirmation bias with Nicki Minaj post-surgery, who is gorgeous, but obviously a caricature. She is from Trinidad and was skinny with no curves.

Black women are not Black men, and when White men spent centuries raping the women who look like us and murdering the sons and fathers who resemble us, it is very obvious that it is just not meant to be in a society that has not tried to reconcile with the trauma. Women who have been raped and children who have been physically beaten need help. A people who have to constantly be traumatized by the stories of their forefathers and the beliefs of their oppressors cannot get better. And I believe that Black men had to lose a bit of themselves to excuse the rapes of Black women. Men are taught to protect women, and when they cannot they either blame themselves or the women. It is how the “double standard” of interracial dating that Black women have coined does not make sense and is laughable. Lynching lives on in our minds, but the rapes live on in both our hearts and minds. It is also why there need not be questions asked with relationships between AW/WM and WW/BM– despite the racism involved in many of these relationships. There just was not nearly as great of a level of sexualized racism inflicted upon BM nor AW by their counterparts as there has been with WM towards BW across the African Diaspora. Notice how Black men are with White women and not the creator of the system and biggest bottomfeeder, White men. Being with the living, breathing representation of the system is different than being with his daughter. And there is a great need for many Black men to compensate using destructive means and the notion of light-skinned men being weak because of their subconscious proximity to White men that makes the damage made by White men even more personal. We clearly have not healed yet, and White men are not making it any better whether they realize it or not. I want to be with a man whom I can bear children who can comprehend our worries on more than a level of sympathy. Empathy is one of the rarest traits a human can possess, which is why it is much more comforting being with a man who gets at least the “Black struggle”… maybe not the “Black woman struggle” (for the time being, of course, maybe centuries from now there may be no Black women).

This is so long, but I figured why not when you seem to be going to the same threads as me and you enjoy asking questions for whatever reason(s)…

Well, it’s never late to reformulate, is it? Just curious– not about all the aspects of your lives there on the other side of the Atlantic; I’ve taken a look thru the lenses of the views the common average WASP Americans have on Blacks, then I saw that you, Blacks, wear a kind of the same lenses of self-contempt and victimity, too, so now I need to do my practices harder to transform that imprint of poison you are swimming in there.

[It’s around 14.27 in the country where I live now, so I’ve already eaten my breakfast and lunch and am starting to do my daily rituals I was supposed to start my day with… Never imagined myself living up even to my current age, not to mention dying old, though -:]

@Nagpo
It is impossible for you to have a look through our lens, much as would be for us in relation to White people. You are not only Russian, or in a place with a similar timezone, but you are not Black. I never know what to think of Eastern Europeans, as they had very little take on imposing on others as greatly as Westerners did. And I believe that most White people in the States are not actively “WASPs” (their history in Europe of ousting one another defies this), but they did have to assimilate into the larger values that WASPs used to found the country. In America, you could even claim ownership of the things that Isaac Newton did. Also, Great Britain seems like the Nigeria of Europe.

But, no, I would not say that I have contempt. It is more like animosity now, which may be worse. When you take on an identity and someone attacks said identity, then it can feel personal. That is why there are women who take rape personally when they have not been raped. That is why Black people can be sad or angry when other Black people are shot. And that is why you personally felt the need to be attacked when I spoke of White men as I did, knowing fully well that as a Russian man you have no ties to our people like other European groups do (Most of us likely have European DNA from Britain, Ireland, and Scandanavia as well as African DNA from Western and Central countries like Nigeria, Angola, and Cameroon). It is illogical, but it is one thing that makes us human– something I have already stated. Empathy makes us biased, but it also leaves us genuine.

[Being in the States, I have only had my breakfast. And, I do. I imagine having already died, dying now, dying soon, and dying when I am old. It is a luxury that many with televisions and phones seem to negate– imagining. Even author Reyna Grande agrees with me.]

Sorry, but it is not you to decide what is possible for me and what is not; there are forces far more competent and apt for that than a female human somewhere in the USA.

But, again, with death, there is no permanence or clinging to ‘self’, and I like the way you described the impermanence as a process of continuous dying; but then, the hate or its subtler overtones are just another examples of clinging of a wrong kind, that excludes any understanding at all.

I don’t identify myself as a ‘Russian’ to the extent of hoping never to be reborn in this country ever again; my nickname is half an oxymoron, something like ‘military culture’ (c) or ‘communist economics’. I use the language in most of my daily life, though, and I liked the emoticon(s). Thanx.

The place where I am in now is just in Moscow time zone, but, again, that depends on what to define as ‘near’. In Russia, 500+km is ‘near’, but I’m not sure it would be so in the USA.

“then I saw that you, Blacks, wear a kind of the same lenses of self-contempt and victimity, too, so now I need to do my practices harder to transform that imprint of poison you are swimming in there.”

Am I understanding this correctly — are you saying that your approach to the problem of racism is through magical and/or arcane practices?