George Stephanopoulos, clutching his pearls, wants to know why it was necessary for Alan Grayson to call out Republicans on the floor of the House for their stubborn defense of the status quo failed health care in this country (note, in his post, Steph uses Eric Cantor’s YouTube of this speech, which ought to tell you on whose behalf he decided to cover this).

If you needed any more evidence that passions run high on health care and America’s partisan divide cuts deep, it came tonight. When was the last time you heard a member of Congress (Joe Wilson of S.C.) call the President a liar during a joint session address? (Rahm Emanuel has already approached the GOP Congressional leadership and demanded an apology. John McCain has said Wilson should apologize, too. And just moments ago, Wilson bowed to the inevitable and apologized). For that matter, when was the last time you heard a President use the word “lie” in a joint session address?

No mention of the fact that Wilson was the one lying here. Instead, an excuse for Wilson because "passions run high." No mention of Wilson’s lie–or those of his Republican colleagues–the following day, either (though, once again, Steph highlights what Eric Cantor wants out there). No mention of Wilson’s lie in Steph’s discussion of Wilson’s opponent’s financial bonanza for his outburst either.

Exhibit Two: George Steph’s "outrage" in response to much more incendiary comments from Republicans–such as when Mike Huckabee said that Democrats would have forced Teddy Kennedy to "go home to take pain pills and die."

Mike Huckabee tossed a hand grenade into the debate over who’s politicizing Ted Kennedy’s death Thursday morning when he told his radio audience that under Obamacare, Kennedy would be told to "go home to take pain pills and die."

Which Democrat will toss it back first?

Will any Republicans jump on it by challenging Huckabee head-on?

One thing’s for sure: by joining the debate in this time in this way, Huckabee is showing how determined he is not to be outmaneuvered by Sarah Palin in the early 2012 bidding for the GOP’s conservative base

How will Mitt Romney respond?

Hmmm. Sorry. That’s not outrage (though of course Steph did ask whether any Democrat would throw this "hand grenade" back at the Republicans, as much as inviting a response like Grayson’s). Nor is it journalism, which would have required calling Huck out for his lie.

How about this? Does this count as outrage against the signs, "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy"?

Classy…

Um. Sorry. No outrage there, either. I’ll keep looking, don’t worry.

Exhibit Three: George Steph’s extensive reporting on the fact that Republicans have no health care reform plan–pointing out precisely the point that Congressman Grayson was making.

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Let’s see. In the last month, George Stephanopoulos has treated two more inflammatory outbursts from Republicans as nothing more than "passions running high." He has not bothered to point out the untruth in those outbursts or other even more inflammatory comments from Republicans. He has repeatedly regurgitated whatever Eric Cantor sent his way.

And he has never pointed out the critical point that Grayson is making: Republicans have no health care plan, and people will die as a result.

The goopers must have their “tit for tat” after Wilson’s rebuke, pathetic really but that is the state of the Greedy Old Party. As for Georgie his greatest thrill is the pampering in the make up room and of course when he watches himself on the telly.

Jello Joe (I guess he has shaken that monicker, is it Jivin’ Joe now?), spoke very well at the hearing yesterday and frankly I got the impression that the 15 nay voters gave not a doodle about anyone, anyone’s life, anyone’s peace of mind or anything but their own back pocket and we need more Graysons and Jivin’ Joes to speak truth to these self interested pigs.

Marcy Wheeler did an excellent breakdown of how you spoke about Alan Grayson’s speech on the republican health care bill vs. how you’ve covered Joe Wilson and Mike Huckabee, et. al. She did a really nice comparison.

Thank you, Dr. Wheeler, for performing yet another essential task that the serious employees of paid media, eager to avoid betraying any hint that they might spot the exclusive shield some have offered them, have relegated to aimless dilettante bloggers —telling the goddam truth.

“Bury Obamacare with Kennedy” = “Bury Obama with the Kennedys” = “Kill Obama like the Kennedys”.

Maybe political assassination by the right is gauche these days — they’d probably do it like that guy Perry says — but I see parallels after you see open incitement to a coup, and that on the heels of McChrystal’s insubordination?

D’ye know, the last time I saw a reference to stoats was in a letter of John Keats’ — from 1819, I think that was, and a sublime passage it is. Aha:

This it is that makes the Amusement of Life – to a speculative Mind. I go among the Fields and catch a glimpse of a Stoat or a fieldmouse peeping out of the withered grass – the creature hath a purpose and its eyes are bright with it. I go amongst the buildings of a city and I see a Man hurrying along – to what? the Creature has a purpose and his eyes are bright with it.

–John Keats, 14 Feb 1819

Me, I’ve never seen a stoat, although I see from the wiki that they are ermines and very cute. Do you have them at your end of the lake? I don’t think that we do.

George is ABC’s fluff filler. It really is all about the makeup, the clothes, filling the allotted time. He hasn’t been an insider in 9 years, 10 even, and he has spent that 10 years inside the Beltway. He’s just there. He offers little or nothing, except the face and name recognition. He’s like crustless bread with low-salt butter.

I would like to start a little runnin’ contest here on this thread: let’s think of all the little fascists or fascist fellow travelers suede shoe slesmen and media whores brought to us by the Clintons. OK, I will start:

“Last night, I gave a speech, and I’m not going to recount everything I said, but after that speech, several Republicans asked me to apologize,” the Florida Democrat said in a defiant speech on the House floor Wednesday. “I would like to apologize.”

Grayson then pointed to a Harvard study that reported more than 44,000 Americans die yearly because they lack health insurance. “That is ten times more than the number of Americans who have died in Iraq and who died in 9/11,” he said. “But that was just once. This is every single year. That’s right. Every single year. Take a look at this. Read it and weep.”

“I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven’t voted sooner to end this holocaust in America,” he concluded.

Damn, I wish I lived in his district. What a concept: a Democrat with principles and a spine!

Stephanopoulos used his Clinton era gig to sell out for a nice comfortable spot in media whoredom. It made him a millionaire and the idea that he will represent, let alone report, anything that does not benefit the class to which he now belongs is farcical.

It is troublesome when they won’t differentiate when the degree of difference is substantial. It is beyond maddening and extraordinarily harmful to our political discourse when the difference, as here, is not a matter of degree, but kind, and they pretend otherwise.

Does George get an ignorance commission at the end of the month? The more bullshit he trys to pass off the more he makes? I mean really. He should have a bulb horn to honk after every idiotic thing he says.

This has nothing to do with Joe Wilson, what he did was reprehensible and despicable. He was chastised as he should have been.

However, what Grayson did was wrong. It’s not the same of course, he did not say what he did to the president when a joint session was in progress. But he was wrong on the merits. Republicans don’t want “sick people to die quickly”. To make such a general statement is inflammatory hyperbole and it’s just not true.

Chris Mathews on “Hardball” tonight just played clips of the Rethugs saying basically the same thing about the Democrats health care plans. He had several examples of them saying teh stoopid, and it was right to point out these examples.

I’d bet good money NO OTHER network did the same. Would I lose or win that bet?

Will someone tell me why my “comment is awaiting moderator approval”? Because I happen to have a different political point of view? Is that the way this works here? You are censored if you aren’t just parroting the prevailing opinion here?

First of all, Grayson was talking about Republican Politicians, not republicans.

Second, he was spot on.

Third, prove he wasn’t.

Fourth, let me KNOW when republican voters, or their politicians, HAVE a plan for all the people, for care for everyone, that doesn’t pre exclude due to previe conditions, or denies care for any number of reasons.

A plan that doesn’t PAY PEOPLE, to sift thru detail to EXCLUDE CARE and KILL PEOPLE!!!

Yeah, and lemme know when YOU people have a plan Jesus Would Approve Of.

Cuz so far, the GOP and Repugnants are caring for the masses about the same as Atilla The Hun did.

A pox on that house, upon that GOP, and all who cheer and support their immoral so called family values that eliminate people of color, people of choice, people of differing sexual preferences, people of peace, and people who don’t worship end times and a 6,000 year old planet where dinosaurs and humans walked together.

Whoa man. For anyone who questions the value of the “more and better” efforts of Blue America and such, THAT is why it’s worth it. We played a large role in helping get Grayson in there.

I asked him in one of his appearances here when he’s forming his Presidential Exploratory Committee. He said first things first (getting into Congress). I’m think he needs to now fast track that effort.

I was moved to comment on Georie Boy’s thread, to the effect of Grayson was spot on, and when will Georgie man up, face the reality of the GOP lies and hate, and stop shilling for the GOP while hiding behind his skirt from the truth.

Republicans want one thing and one thing only and that is to return to power and they will do anything and everything they can to achieve that goal. This means being obstructionists and wanting Obama to fail.

But I do not think saying “Republicans want ill people to die quickly” is true and I think that although it plays well to the progressive left; most Americans will find it to be a false, inflammatory, hateful statement.

The truth isn’t pretty sometimes is it GOP??? Probably it isn’t MOST of the time for the Repthugs.
I can’t help but think of Cantor ( and others) telling Americans to have “bake sales” to pay their medical bills.

Mr. Speaker, last week Democrats released a health care bill which essentially said to America’s seniors ‘Drop Dead’.

Rep. Ginny Bown-Waite (R), Fla, on the floor of the House, 21 July 2009.

This program, this government option is being touted as being this panacea, the saviour of allowing people to have quality health care at an affordable price is gonna kill people.

Rep Paul Broun, (R), Fla, on the floor of the House, 10 July 2009.

Republicans have a better solution that won’t put the government in charge of peoples health care; that will make sure we bring down the cost of health care for all Americans; and that ensures affordable access for all Americans and is pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government.

Rep. Virginia Foxx, (R), NC, on the floor of the House 28 July 2009.

So I take it you spoke out back then about how they went overboard?
Would you like to take this opportunity now to speak out about it?

It’s bad enough that Stephanopoulos is outraged. The Hill reports “Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson (Conn.) has said Grayson’s remark wasn’t as serious as Wilson’s outburst, but still said he should apologize.”

Calling for Congressman Grayson’s apology for telling the truth shows what is wrong with today’s Democratic leadership. Congressman Grayson took a page out of George Lakoff’s writings about proper framing of the issue, not just for health care reform but for saving this country from the devastating blows rendered by the right wing in the past three decades. (See generally Lakoff’s Don’t think like an elephant: know your values and frame the debate: the essential guide for progressives.) In his August 20, 2009 post on Huffingtonpost.com, “ The PolicySpeak Disaster for Health Care,” Lakoff advises:

Health care is a moral issue, and the right-wing understands that and is using it. That’s why the “death panels” and “government takeover” language resonates with those who have a conservative moral perspective and used terms like “pro-life.” Health care is a life and death issue, which is as moral as anything could be. The insurance companies have been on the side of death and that needs to be said overtly. (Emphasis added.)

The Republicans are on the side of the insurance companies; ergo, they are on the side of death. Congressman Grayson would have been more effective if he had singled out the insurance companies for the “death” label, but he certainly need not apologize for including the Republicans, who have made it clear that they are unanimously working for the insurance companies.

Yes I will speak out. Those statements are equally reprehensible and disgusting. Two wrongs don’t make a right — why use examples of Republicans bad behavior to justify our own? Both are wrong and that kind of hateful vitriol has no place in a debate. The public is sick of that.

No, actually I disagree. You see, if just anybody can get insurance then it has to be affordable and that would cut into profits and if dying people linger then they may require health care and that costs insurers money. But, if they die quickly there’s no further cost for care.

I’ll tell you what I’m sick of. I’m sick of the Democrats thinking they have to play “nice” or act like the “adult” when dealing with the Rethugs. The Rethugs are acting just like bullies in school, and will push and push and push and push to see how far they can go. But unlike in school, there is no principal or teacher or “authority figure” to make the bully stop. Therefore, the only response to a bully in that situation is to fight back.

You think the media is going to play the “authority figure” and call out the Rethugs when they go overboard?? Didn’t happen with those quotes I mentioned above, and won’t in the future. In fact, I’d bet dollars to donuts more Americans have heard the clip of Grayson saying what he said than heard the clips of those three I posted above COMBINED.

And do you think voters are going to act as the “authority figure?” Again, not going to happen. The right wing voters allow their politicians to do or say ANYTHING and they will still vote for and support them.

So, the only way to deal with a bully when there is no authority figure is to either let him have his way (totally unacceptable) or fight back.

And I’m damned tired of the Democrats not having the balls to fight back. I’m glad this one did, and does.

Because I dare to disagree with those who post here on this issue, my comments are being moderated which means they appear an hour after I post them if the moderator decides I get to exercise my right to give my opinion at all. This results in others commenting without my ability to respond.

This is no way to run a blog and I choose not to participate any longer. What a sad commentary as to what some progressives have become. No wonder we are losing.

There have been incendiary comments on health care, the war, terrorism and likely the time of day on both sides for too many years. Everyone has their favorite, “Well, he started it moment” in both directions. And, as long as everyone is looking for someone to blame–rather than in the mirror–it’s going to continue like this and likely get worse.

These incendiary comments happen because the core supporters on each side cheer them on–witness this thread and likely many threads like it on conservative blogs after Wilson’s “You lie” statement.

Until core supporters penalize their own side’s speakers instead of rewarding them, the battle will rage on.

And, it’s a shame as many people here and elsewhere demonstrate every day that they are capable of substantive “just the facts” analysis without the vitriol.

Secondly, what he said wasn’t far from the truth. If the Republican health care plan isn’t “Don’t get sick” then what is it???

I would love nothing better than to talk about the facts, the issues, and the pros and cons of specific proposals with the other side. They’re the ones that have decided, especially on health care, that they don’t wish to do that. So fine, we’ll play it their way.

The British documentary program Panorama did a show last year on $23 billion in Iraqi oil funds that went missing after being spent by Paul Bremer’s CPA on various boondoggles and corrupt contractors. Alan Grayson represents a lot of whistle blowers so he was interviewed for the show. He was very funny and got at least some information around the complete gag order imposed by the government on such cases by playing a game of hot or cold to the interviewer’s questioning. His personal wealth is in the billions so he is not in it for the money.

You’re not really suggesting the amount of vitriol spewed by Democratic-Party-leaning folks has come anywhere remotely near the amount spewed by the other end of the spectrum, are you? Because that would be downright clinical.

“Will someone tell me why my ‘comment is awaiting moderator approval’? Because I happen to have a different political point of view? Is that the way this works here? You are censored if you aren’t just parroting the prevailing opinion here?”

“No, he said Republicans not Republican politicians. Please tell the truth.”

He did in fact say “republicans.” Right after specifically mentioning the republican politicians on the other side of the aisle and their blank sheet health care plan. Then going on to talk about the bills from the democratic party. I learned the concept of context from Sesame Street when I was three.

I am going to be slammed for stating this. Gastro has a point. He’s pointing to the concern, “Did we have to reflect Republican behavior?” As though the behavior was compromising values of decorum for political “stage affects”.

There is a point to his perspective and it should not be thrown out as a “troll view”.

By the same token, there is a frustration level with the fact that Republicans have made it clear they do not care about health care, their real fight here is to make Obama fail on health care for the sake of politics. Their fight is not for citizens. It’s about Obama’s Waterloo and the Republican party has clearly stated that. Cleary. “Making it Obama’s waterloo,” were their words, not mine.

When Democratic parties “tried” honest efforts to seek policy which would bring both sides together, one side just did not want to participate in constructive dialogue unless it protected the status quo of the health industry.(And that includes conservative Dems too unfortunately.)

Grayson’s in your face tact/perspective is one of, “We tried to get your party to participate in the process to include your ‘values’ such as ‘life based’ concerns and fiscal responsibility on policy. But all that resulted was, “You lie!” a blank piece of paper, and lots of hate building at Town Hall meetings. He is peeling the layers of the “values hypocrisy onion” back to show that 70% of the country is not in agreement with such movement on such an important issue.

Do I like how he did it? No. In an ideal world I would hope decorum would work to create thoughtful, positive sum policy. A “fair play” approach.

Is there a place for the approach Grayson took? After the Republican response and the media response, I have to state, Grayson’s reality check pill has a roll to play. He is reflecting righteous anger for those disenfranchised by the healthcare industry. My family is one of those carrying righteous anger for the abuses of the industry due to denial of coverage after approval of coverage and then being left with a $25,000 bill. No one has stood up for my healthcare experience and my righteous anger due to it until Rockefeller and Grayson.

Thankfully, we have Jay Rockefeller continuing to use decorum and presenting thoughtful policy to balance out Grayson’s manner. And both approaches are finally getting the voice of concerns regarding healthcare heard within the MSM.

So Gastro, I agree with your point. It is frustrating to see “more politicing.” Grayson’s action(s) are forcing the hands of the Republicans to come to the table with some thoughtful legislation which is positive sum. If they cannot deliver, then the GOP rage at Grayson ends up hollow and false. Then Grayson ends up correct.

The GOP has stirred up way too much false and ugly divisiveness. Grayson is simply stating, “I have had it. Walk your talk buckos.”

Therefore, I think Grayson was closer to righteous anger and admonishment for accountability, then “two wrongs do not make a right.” But it is very close to the line in how he approached it.

Salted words just do not work on the GOP right now. I hate the fact that such an important issue in our country has been over shadowed by ugliness. I think that is part of Grayson’s point. He’s mirroring political behavior but using corrective language, not hate language.

Grayson has opened a door in an aggressive yet astute move. Are Republicans going to ask him to apologize for the dead who die of complications which basic healthcare could have prevented? That would be the dumbest demand by the GOP on Grayson. He would become a hero for all those families who are losing every day by standing with those families and stating, “I will not apologize for their pain.”

Now, had the GOP responded with:

“You know, we were wrong to issue a blank piece of paper as policy. We were wrong to shout out, “You lie!” We were wrong to stir up lies about policy on healthcare such as death panels and create hate at town hall meetings. Forgive us citizens, here’s an honest effort at a win-win policy, ” and then hand Grayson some well written policy,”

I am just surprised at how intelligent people can peddle this. For anyone who actually has an open mind, there have been many, many Republican proposals for health care reform

Removing State barriers and letting people buy insurance nationwide
Tort Reform
Subsides to low income citizens to buy insurance
Letting individual people band together to form a group

And many others. You might not think they are good ideas, but that doesn’t make them “no plan.” By that same token, I could say the Democratic ideas are not good and propose the fantasy that they have no plan.