| dwmw2: until we have a simple algorithm for detecting works/doesn't work

<a href="#t10:20:52" class="time">10:20</a>

f13

| I think we can cook up something in our rsync calls to avoid removing images/ though

<a href="#t10:20:54" class="time">10:20</a>

wwoods

| we'll have to rely on present/not present

<a href="#t10:20:57" class="time">10:20</a>

jlaska

| f13: the pisser is the trees change out from under us ... and there's no retention of a usable tree

<a href="#t10:21:05" class="time">10:21</a>

dwmw2

| I saw another complaint yesterday that there's no progress bar while downloading stage2 from the internets

<a href="#t10:21:05" class="time">10:21</a>

wwoods

| works > present > missing

<a href="#t10:21:06" class="time">10:21</a>

f13

| jlaska: that's why we keep more than one internally where there is more space to be had

<a href="#t10:21:23" class="time">10:21</a>

wwoods

| dwmw2: answer: stop downloading stage2 from the internets, sucka

<a href="#t10:21:26" class="time">10:21</a>

wwoods

| heh

<a href="#t10:21:27" class="time">10:21</a>

dwmw2

| wwoods: heh

<a href="#t10:21:32" class="time">10:21</a>

f13

| jlaska: we currently may not even have enough space to host the Fedora 9 release on the master mirror.

<a href="#t10:21:36" class="time">10:21</a>

wwoods

| jlaska: we've got space for that internally

<a href="#t10:21:55" class="time">10:21</a>

dwmw2

| wwoods: works > present > missing > present-but-KNOWN-not-to-work

<a href="#t10:21:57" class="time">10:21</a>

wwoods

| there's also daily trees in koji

<a href="#t10:22:03" class="time">10:22</a>

wwoods

| not gonna happen on the mirrors though

<a href="#t10:22:12" class="time">10:22</a>

dwmw2

| don't we _know_ that today's stage1 won't work with tomorrows compose?

<a href="#t10:22:20" class="time">10:22</a>

wwoods

| dwmw2: right, which is why we've stopped keeping images that have only stage1 in 'em

<a href="#t10:22:39" class="time">10:22</a>

dwmw2

| iso images. There's still netboot

<a href="#t10:22:57" class="time">10:22</a>

wwoods

| now we have the 'stage2=XXX' command in loader

<a href="#t10:23:04" class="time">10:23</a>

wwoods

| so if you've got yesterday's boot images somehow, you should also have yesterday's stage2

<a href="#t10:23:17" class="time">10:23</a>

wwoods

| so now.. you can use yesterday's kernel/stage1/stage2 with today's tree

<a href="#t10:23:32" class="time">10:23</a>

dwmw2

| ok, that helps.

<a href="#t10:23:32" class="time">10:23</a>

jeremy

| dwmw2: since we moved all the kernel modules to be in the initrd (as opposed to split between initrd and second stage), it's been _more_ likely that you can hop trees. but not guaranteed, especially in rawhide where we could change conventions of calling /usr/bin/anaconda

<a href="#t10:23:48" class="time">10:23</a>

jeremy

| dwmw2: but netinst.iso is one iso to rule them all, blah blah blah. having kernel + initrd + stage2

<a href="#t10:24:14" class="time">10:24</a>

wwoods

| we could have a serial number in the stage1+stage2 metadata that increments only when incompatible changes are made

<a href="#t10:24:48" class="time">10:24</a>

dwmw2

| hm, did the initrd grow a lot when we did that?

<a href="#t10:24:59" class="time">10:24</a>

wwoods

| right now we have a similar serial number, but it increments whenever the clock ticks

<a href="#t10:25:29" class="time">10:25</a>

wwoods

| heh

<a href="#t10:25:33" class="time">10:25</a>

wwoods

| so as soon as the clock ticks, a new stage2 will be incompatible with your stage1

<a href="#t10:25:55" class="time">10:25</a>

jeremy

| dwmw2: a bit. but we did it a while ago

<a href="#t10:26:31" class="time">10:26</a>

wwoods

| anyway - not really necessary for most testing, and that's not a problem we'll solve off the tops of our heads

<a href="#t10:26:32" class="time">10:26</a>

wwoods

| we should make people know about the changes and the reasons for 'em (and the benefits)

<a href="#t10:26:53" class="time">10:26</a>

jeremy

| wwoods: well, given that it's rawhide only and it'd have to be a manual increment... we just try to avoid things that break it

<a href="#t10:26:54" class="time">10:26</a>

<-- | mether has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

<a href="#t10:27:47" class="time">10:27</a>

wwoods

| err, make *sure* people know

<a href="#t10:27:51" class="time">10:27</a>

wwoods

| we don't need to force information directly into their brains

<a href="#t10:28:02" class="time">10:28</a>

wwoods

| jeremy: are you planning on doing a summary mail or anything or should I tackle that?

<a href="#t10:28:23" class="time">10:28</a>

jeremy

| wwoods: of what? the installer stuff? I've updated the release notes for the beta. can send something later

<a href="#t10:29:01" class="time">10:29</a>

wwoods

| 1) no more boot.iso / diskboot.img, 2) netinst.iso is cool and here's why, 3) stage2=XXX for other purposes

<a href="#t10:29:22" class="time">10:29</a>

wwoods

| the unanswered question so far is: how do you make a bootable USB device for installing

<a href="#t10:29:41" class="time">10:29</a>

wwoods

| you said there was something like livecd-to-iso in the works for netinst.iso?

<a href="#t10:29:58" class="time">10:29</a>

wwoods

| err livecd-to-usb

<a href="#t10:30:08" class="time">10:30</a>

jeremy

| need to make sure some stage2= cases work before we can get anything like that going

<a href="#t10:30:59" class="time">10:30</a>

wwoods

| true

<a href="#t10:31:08" class="time">10:31</a>

wwoods

| I'll be testing that most of today probably

<a href="#t10:31:17" class="time">10:31</a>

wwoods

| especially w.r.t. preupgrade

<a href="#t10:31:28" class="time">10:31</a>

wwoods

| jeremy: I'll cull something from the release notes, mostly for the rawhiders

<a href="#t10:31:50" class="time">10:31</a>

jeremy

| wwoods: *nod* my blog post should also give some good info

<a href="#t10:32:09" class="time">10:32</a>

wwoods

| need to write a good "how to install rawhide - the easy way" doc anyway

<a href="#t10:32:11" class="time">10:32</a>

* | jeremy has been trying to be active about blogging cool stuff / big changes