Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider
registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

So in simple words.....you can't find any press release by any US government department concerning the video that appeared on You-tube. I already knew that.

And, speaking of what U.S. Navy pilots encountered, let's take a look at what Chilean Naval pilots encountered.

Quote:

Groundbreaking UFO Video Just Released By Chilean Navy

An exceptional nine-minute Navy video of a UFO displaying highly unusual behavior, studied by Chilean authorities for the last two years, is now being released to the public.

The CEFAA - the Chilean government agency which investigates UFOs, or UAP (unidentified aerial phenomena), has been in charge of the investigation. Located within the DGAC, the equivalent of our FAA but under the jurisdiction of the Chilean Air Force, CEFAA has committees of military experts, technicians and academics from many disciplines. None of them have been able to explain the strange flying object captured by two experienced Navy officers from a helicopter.

None of that proves aliens. It just proves we cannot identity what they are.

We can definitely state that the objects are flying vehicles exhibiting advanced technology unknown to mankind and with that, we can rule out mankind as owners of those flying objects. That is why the Air Force stated in 1948 that the objects in question are, in the Air Force's own words, "Interplanetary Spaceships." That was reconfirmed in the Air Force's 1952 intelligence report. In some cases, the objects were tagged as Unauthorized Flying Objects (IFO) as in the case of the flying saucer in the Coyote Canyon landing where the object knocked out radar systems in New Mexico and the interference was traced to the area of Coyote Canyon where security personnel saw the IFO land. Here is something else that people were unaware of.

Quote:

Conclusion UFOs Are Space Ships Given SAC in 1952

A 1952 evaluation of "flying saucers" as interplanetary devices, sent to Strategic Air Command Headquarters from MacDill AFB, has been disclosed to NICAP by former information Specialist Don Widener, one of the AF men concurring in this opinion.

It concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships." Air Force analysts had reached this conclusion before. Project Sign in 1948 had issued a Top Secret Estimate of the Situation drawing the same conclusion.

So what we have is the U. S. military confirming the objects are 'Interplanetary Spaceships', which coincides with the U.S. Army's 'Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU). The U.S. Army later confirmed the existence of the IPU due to a request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The U.S. Air Force now has custody of the IPU's files.

When the Air Force says that it was a weather balloon, how many people believes the Air Force's explanation? Let's take a look here.

R&S2) "We heard the material was coming to Wright Field. [Testing was done in the various labs.] Everything from chemical analysis, stress tests, compression tests, flexing. It was brought into our material evaluation labs. I don't know how it arrived, but the boys who tested it said it was very unusual." “...Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space."

DR. ROBERT SARBACHER
Sarbacher was a physicist and industrial scientist who acted as a consultant with the U.S. Department of Defense Research and Development Board (RDB).

That fabric we obtained at Roswell had molecular welds so small you couldn't even identify what they were until the sixties, when the microscopes to do it became available. ...What I can be certain about is that it was not produced by any technology we were aware of in 1947, or now."

__________________"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat

If post after post of pointless walls of irrelevant text and scans of photocopies of long and repeatedly debunked BS was proof of the existence of alien spacecraft, then skyeagle409's work is done.

Over here, in the real world, repeating the same BS over and over doesn't make any of it true.

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

The former head of the Pentagon’s secret UFO-hunting bureau has said he believes “we may not be alone”.

Luis Elizondo’s admission came after declassified footage showed US fighter pilots reacting with astonishment as they observed an unknown aerial object off California in 2014.

"These aircraft -- we'll call them aircraft -- are displaying characteristics that are not currently within the US inventory nor in any foreign inventory that we are aware of," Elizondo said of objects they researched.

Looks like an artefact to me, not like any kind of locked target I've ever seen on a HUD, and I have seen plenty.

When I see this video posted on a US government website, I might be more favourably disposed. As it is, its on a UK newspaper site... The Independent no less... well colour me surprised... it might as well be on the Daily Flail!

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

If post after post of pointless walls of irrelevant text and scans of photocopies of long and repeatedly debunked BS was proof of the existence of alien spacecraft, then skyeagle409's work is done.

False comment on your part because at no time has anyone debunked the UFO incidents I have reported and I will challenge anyone to prove the UFO cases did not occur as presented by me.

Just to let you know that it isn't that difficult to use the FOIA to confirm that what I have said are true and I know much more about what has been going on in the skies, within the atmosphere and beneath the seas because I know how to gather such information. Here is another example and I will take you to the National Security Agency (NSA) to reveal what you were unaware of, and that is:

Extraterrestrial signals from deep space have been detected for years and the government never revealed that fact to the public and it took the FOIA to reveal what the government didn't report to the media. Perhaps, you should do a review of SETI's Frank Drake when he stated during his NBC-TV interview that he "could be part of a cover-up."

BTW, one of the documents I've presented regarding the Iranian UFO encounter can also be found at the National Security Agency and you will notice the White House in the distribution list. The documents have also been presented by the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Department of Defense and a DSP satellite watched the encounter between UFOs and the Iranian F-4 Phantoms.

Once again, that incident would not have been revealed had it not been for a lawsuit against the CIA years ago, whereas, that incident was revealed. Since then, the CIA released more of its declassified UFO files over the years.

Looks like an artefact to me, not like any kind of locked target I've ever seen on a HUD, and I have seen plenty.

When I see this video posted on a US government website, I might be more favourably disposed. As it is, its on a UK newspaper site... The Independent no less... well colour me surprised... it might as well be on the Daily Flail!

There are many things that you will not find available on government websites in regards to UFOs and that is why it is important to make a request to government agencies under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

Let's go to the website of the National Security Agency (NSA) and take a look at documents that were revealed after the lawsuit against the CIA and notice the Department of Defense heading on these UFO documents. After reading those documents, I would like for you to tell us what occurred when military jets encountered those UFOs and remember, this incident made its way up to the White House.

To make sure you are paying attention, did the following government document in the following link disclose that Air Force sources at Malmstrom AFB reported UFOs in the area and noted that a UFO landed and mentions a UFO landing report from Deputies of the Cascade County Sheriff's Office?

You should have noticed the name: Lt. Col. Lewis Chase on that document along with his contact information. Let me present a video of his UFO encounter. He was the Air Force pilot whose RB-47 was tracked by a UFO over multiple states.

Here is the caption from the video in the New York Times article:
"A video shows a 2004 encounter near San Diego between two Navy F/A-18F fighter jets and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. By Courtesy of U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE on Publish Date December 16, 2017. Photo by U.S Department of Defense. "

The article originated from the New York Times, the story was featured not only in the paper but also on their daily podcast. On the podcast, the NYT pentagon correspondent, a Pulitzer prize winner and co-author of the story, verifies Elizondo's identity. So, while it is possible the NYT is being hoaxed ( the involvement of Leslie Keane means that hoax is a possibility) , one would hope that Cooke and Blumenthal, the other Pulitzer Prize winner that co-authored this piece, would rule out hoax before writing the story and that the editorial staff would thoroughly vet the story prior to publication. But perhaps I'm too trusting of the quality of their process.

Aside from the practical difficulties in space travel etc, I don't believe that this is evidence that UFOs have an extraterrestrial source based on the simple fact that the DOD allowed the release of the video. However, the NYT didn't attribute the phenomena on the video to artifact, and if it isn't artifact then what might it be?

70 years of all the countries in the world (through the most turbulent changes for many countries, and countries lierally ceasing to exist and new ones being created) and every single one of them has decided to keep the information secret. But a FOIA request revealed the truth...

Here is the caption from the video in the New York Times article:
"A video shows a 2004 encounter near San Diego between two Navy F/A-18F fighter jets and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. By Courtesy of U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE on Publish Date December 16, 2017. Photo by U.S Department of Defense. "

The article originated from the New York Times, the story was featured not only in the paper but also on their daily podcast. On the podcast, the NYT pentagon correspondent, a Pulitzer prize winner and co-author of the story, verifies Elizondo's identity. So, while it is possible the NYT is being hoaxed ( the involvement of Leslie Keane means that hoax is a possibility) , one would hope that Cooke and Blumenthal, the other Pulitzer Prize winner that co-authored this piece, would rule out hoax before writing the story and that the editorial staff would thoroughly vet the story prior to publication. But perhaps I'm too trusting of the quality of their process.

Aside from the practical difficulties in space travel etc, I don't believe that this is evidence that UFOs have an extraterrestrial source based on the simple fact that the DOD allowed the release of the video. However, the NYT didn't attribute the phenomena on the video to artifact, and if it isn't artifact then what might it be?

How many of these Pulitzer Prize winning journalists have any personal experience with Fighter Aircraft missile and gunnery radar, FLIR tracking or HUDs.? None I'll bet.

This object does NOT act like any kind of locked on target on a HUD that I have ever seen. The fact that it remains EXACTLY fixed in the same place on the display literally screams artefact, i.e., something either in the display itself (unlikely since the TD box is locked onto it) or something being generated by the input processing circuits of the HUD computer.

With a real-world target, the object moves on the display with minor attitude changes of the pursuing aircraft (especially if it is turning to follow the target). This is because there is always some level of turbulence and shifting of air currents in the atmosphere, and even the most subtle turbulence causes the aircraft to roll, pitch or yaw. This means the pilot has to compensate for the attitude changes, and in turn causes the target to shift back on the display; the TD box then tracks it on the display as it moves. The pilot hasn't yet been born who can keep a target at EXACTLY the same point on the HUD the way this "target" appears.

I have absolutely NO doubt whatsoever that this is an artefact

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

Denmark is on the list of countries that have disclosed documents of UFO encounters? That is of interest to me because I am a Dane, and I can assure you that this disclosure is a well-kept secret! If you can point me in the right direction, I would like to see the disclosure, and I speak the language so there will be no problems of translation.

Denmark is on the list of countries that have disclosed documents of UFO encounters? That is of interest to me because I am a Dane, and I can assure you that this disclosure is a well-kept secret! If you can point me in the right direction, I would like to see the disclosure, and I speak the language so there will be no problems of translation.

__________________I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

But unless the hundreds of Canadians that I know have somehow systematically missed this, belief that UFOs are linked to alien life is still pretty much linkedconfined to nutbars.

FTFY

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

But unless the hundreds of Canadians that I know have somehow systematically missed this, belief that UFOs are linked to alien life is still pretty much linkedconfined to nutbars.

Originally Posted by smartcooky

FTFY

Yes. Much better. Thank you.

__________________I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.

Posts: 1,984

Originally Posted by skyeagle409

That is totally false and in fact, I have even tied the data with the F-16's radar images that were released by the Belgian Air Force, so in that respect, there is no basis for what you have stated, especially when the lead F-16 pilot involved in the incident confirmed what I have presented.

You are simply reinforcing my point about not having learned anything from your previous ventures into this area.

Here is the link to the thread in which your Belgian story was debunked, including the analysis of the radar data showing it was, in itself internally inconsistent, and did, as I said, lead to the conclusion that the UFOs must have been flying underground at some point:

Rather than modify your ideas, I note that you abandoned this thread a day after members here began pointing out the problems with this data. I suggest you- and anyone else who is interested- have another look at this thread, rather than us having to go over the same ground again.

Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.

Posts: 1,984

skyeagle409:
Just to continue.
In this thread, the shredding of your Belgian UFO story continued. I have also linked to the post in which your Minuteman story was shot down (pun intended) by smartcooky, who pointed out the these missiles were not deployed in Vietnam.http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11920213

Once again, you abandoned the thread after it was shown that your sources did not say what you claimed they did, and that your stories were in no way proof of, or even evidence for, alien visitations to earth.
You return a few months later and try to bluff me into believing that what I remembered had not actually happened, which was an act of rather over-optimistic bravado. Did you really think that I wouldn't follow this up?

The reporters don't have to be experts on FLIR and heads up displays , they do, however, need to run the video and any additional information by a third party expert in order to invalidate or validate the claims.

It would be surprisingly sloppy for Times team to not critically evaluate the video especially given that ( per the NYT podcast) they did a lot of work to verify the existence of the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program and Elizondo's position.

No. The video was not officially released by the Department of Defence or any other government department. You have been asked numerous times to show us this "government" press release for the video and you keep failing to do so.

The video is from Luis Elizondo, who with Tom Delonge (Blink 182) is attempting to raise money for a UFO chasing academy, and fashion clothes line, called To the Stars Academy .

No. The video was not officially released by the Department of Defence or any other government department. You have been asked numerous times to show us this "government" press release for the video and you keep failing to do so.

The video is from Luis Elizondo, who with Tom Delonge (Blink 182) is attempting to raise money for a UFO chasing academy, and fashion clothes line, called To the Stars Academy .

Nor does it mention any official Department of Defence press release or disclosure at all. Who physically handed the video to the NYT. The Pentagon press department or a former employee who was setting up a UFO chasing company?

"At a confidential meeting Oct. 4 in a Pentagon City hotel with several present and former intelligence officials and a defense contractor, she met Luis Elizondo, the director of a Pentagon program she had never heard of: the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program..........Leslie also learned that Mr. Elizondo had just resigned to protest what he characterized as excessive secrecy and internal opposition — the reason for the meeting.."

"A few days later Mr. Elizondo and others there — including Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor on the program, and Christopher K. Mellon, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence — announced they were joining a new commercial venture, To the Stars Academy"

We have met Harold Puthoff before, promoting Yuri Gellar as a real psychic. Mr Puthof was a director of EarthTech International, Inc (UFO chasing) and now To the Stars Limited (UFO chasing).

So it was true, the whole time. The sceptics were wrong, the whole time. What else are they wrong about?

__________________spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously in past, present and future.(Einstein) Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time.

The only new information here is that there was an official investigation into UFO reports in the US about ten years ago. The fact that it was wound up after only 5 years tells us that it found exactly what sceptics would have predicted, i.e. zilch.

__________________"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

“They have some material from these objects that is being studied, so that scientists can try to figure out what accounts for their amazing properties,” Ralf Blumenthal, one of the authors of the New York Times report, told MSNBC.

Mr Blumenthal said the DoD ((The US Department of Defence) “do not know” what the materials are made of.

__________________spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously in past, present and future.(Einstein) Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time.

I'll wait for the peer reviewed papers describing these "amazing properties" and explaining why the material must be extra-terrestrial before jumping to any conclusions.

__________________"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

You rely to much on official scientific reports, while the governement had a secret UFO program with its own scientist on top of it. The scientific community knew nothing about it. The governement kept the investigation of the materials secret and they have their own military scientists to do the research. No scientist of the scientific community knew about it. So, don't be naive and don't think they are going to report it to official peer reviewed journals.

__________________spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously in past, present and future.(Einstein) Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time.

Of course the government secretly investigates such reports, it's their job. There may be something they need to know about up there (much more probably the products of other countries than other planets, but the latter possibility should certainly be considered). This is not the first time there has been a dedicated programme to do so, nor is it the first time said programme has been wound up after a few years.

There is nothing new here. There have been reports of UFOs and mysterious materials with amazing properties for decades. Nothing has ever come of them, and all indications are that nothing will come of the current ones. If it ever does, great; like lionking I would be delighted. But I'm not getting my hopes up.

__________________"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

You rely to much on official scientific reports, while the governement had a secret UFO program with its own scientist on top of it. The scientific community knew nothing about it. The governement kept the investigation of the materials secret and they have their own military scientists to do the research. No scientist of the scientific community knew about it. So, don't be naive and don't think they are going to report it to official peer reviewed journals.

Of course the government secretly investigates such reports, it's their job. There may be something they need to know about up there (much more probably the products of other countries than other planets, but the latter possibility should certainly be considered). This is not the first time there has been a dedicated programme to do so, nor is it the first time said programme has been wound up after a few years.

There is nothing new here. There have been reports of UFOs and mysterious materials with amazing properties for decades. Nothing has ever come of them, and all indications are that nothing will come of the current ones. If it ever does, great; like lionking I would be delighted. But I'm not getting my hopes up.

Actually since human recorded history. It's only what they are claimed to be changes - spirits > gods> angels > aliens.

__________________"If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." - thanks sackett
"If you stand on a piece of paper, you are indeed closer to the moon." - MRC_Hans
"I was a believer. Until I saw it." - Magrat

Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.

Posts: 1,984

Originally Posted by skyeagle409

We can definitely state that the objects are flying vehicles exhibiting advanced technology unknown to mankind and with that, we can rule out mankind as owners of those flying objects. That is why the Air Force stated in 1948 that the objects in question are, in the Air Force's own words, "Interplanetary Spaceships." That was reconfirmed in the Air Force's 1952 intelligence report. In some cases, the objects were tagged as Unauthorized Flying Objects (IFO) as in the case of the flying saucer in the Coyote Canyon landing where the object knocked out radar systems in New Mexico and the interference was traced to the area of Coyote Canyon where security personnel saw the IFO land. Here is something else that people were unaware of.

So what we have is the U. S. military confirming the objects are 'Interplanetary Spaceships', which coincides with the U.S. Army's 'Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU). The U.S. Army later confirmed the existence of the IPU due to a request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The U.S. Air Force now has custody of the IPU's files.

When the Air Force says that it was a weather balloon, how many people believes the Air Force's explanation? Let's take a look here.

No, we can't, at least not based on your links and cites.
What you have presented is an uncritical rehash of hearsay and unsupported assertions.
Some background:http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/Exon.htm

Nor does it mention any official Department of Defence press release or disclosure at all. Who physically handed the video to the NYT. The Pentagon press department or a former employee who was setting up a UFO chasing company?

"At a confidential meeting Oct. 4 in a Pentagon City hotel with several present and former intelligence officials and a defense contractor, she met Luis Elizondo, the director of a Pentagon program she had never heard of: the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program..........Leslie also learned that Mr. Elizondo had just resigned to protest what he characterized as excessive secrecy and internal opposition — the reason for the meeting.."

"A few days later Mr. Elizondo and others there — including Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor on the program, and Christopher K. Mellon, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence — announced they were joining a new commercial venture, To the Stars Academy"

We have met Harold Puthoff before, promoting Yuri Gellar as a real psychic. Mr Puthof was a director of EarthTech International, Inc (UFO chasing) and now To the Stars Limited (UFO chasing).

Yes it mentions it. Look closely at the video. It says: "Courtesy of U.S. Department of Defense"

I'm confused, it seems like half of the people here and even most other sources use the word UFO as 'extraterrestrials'. Please use the word correctly. UFOs do exist. This new report is unmistakably an UFO. There is not much reason to think it's of ET origin though.

Last week, following widespread media coverage for a couple of weeks prior, SpaceX launched a rocket that left thousands (millions?) of Americans wondering if ET/Jesus was finally returning. My own wife and son even got caught up in this:

"Did you see that thing on Facebook? What WAS it?!"
"SpaceX. They launched a rocket. You guys didn't know that?"
"Space sex?"
"No, Space X. You know, Elon Musk?"
"I know about Elon Musk but I never heard of space sex."

Moral - Try as you might, there are an awful lot of ignorant people out there, even in the homes of active skeptics. It is, therefore, really easy for mundane events to get whipped up into a faulty narrative.