The diet part is way more important than the exercise part (though everyone should be exercising too). It takes about 24 flights of stairs to burn off a third of an oreo cookie, so I'd say getting people to cut back on the amount of crap they eat is much more significant.

cman:PC LOAD LETTER: cman: Mister Bloomberg is one of the primary architects of what big government should be like.

Let me make this easy for you: big government can be used as a tool for good but this isn't one of those things. This is one of those things that overreaches, micromanaging people's lives for the sole purpose of micromanaging people's lives. Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

Demanding stairs be placed in a different spot? You realize that there are umteen regulations on stair placement already, so this just changes that to be somewhat more user-accessible? In fact, it's easier to architect instead of hiding the stairs like they currently do. Do you think stairs are just placed willy-nilly and that this impinges on the freedom of the architects and designers or something? Come on, I have seen conservative whining before, but this is pants-on-head retarded.

You are right. Governments can demand changes on basis for reasons of public safety. My premise was wrong with the way it was worded.

Let me try that again:

Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot for the sole purpose of making someone act a certain way is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

I thought they were just requiring the signs for stairs to be moved, not the stairs themselves.

cman:You are right. Governments can demand changes on basis for reasons of public safety. My premise was wrong with the way it was worded.

Let me try that again:

Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot for the sole purpose of making someone act a certain way is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

Carth:cman: PC LOAD LETTER: cman: Mister Bloomberg is one of the primary architects of what big government should be like.

Let me make this easy for you: big government can be used as a tool for good but this isn't one of those things. This is one of those things that overreaches, micromanaging people's lives for the sole purpose of micromanaging people's lives. Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

Demanding stairs be placed in a different spot? You realize that there are umteen regulations on stair placement already, so this just changes that to be somewhat more user-accessible? In fact, it's easier to architect instead of hiding the stairs like they currently do. Do you think stairs are just placed willy-nilly and that this impinges on the freedom of the architects and designers or something? Come on, I have seen conservative whining before, but this is pants-on-head retarded.

You are right. Governments can demand changes on basis for reasons of public safety. My premise was wrong with the way it was worded.

Let me try that again:

Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot for the sole purpose of making someone act a certain way is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

I thought they were just requiring the signs for stairs to be moved, not the stairs themselves.

pueblonative:cman: You are right. Governments can demand changes on basis for reasons of public safety. My premise was wrong with the way it was worded.

Let me try that again:

Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot for the sole purpose of making someone act a certain way is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

One of these things is just like the other. . .

Obesity is a public safety issue? I don't think buildings have collapsed yet because of people being too damn fat

THX 1138:It's particularly infuriating when a building is designed so that the stairs are an exit only, meaning that once a person is in the stairwell, all doors are locked so they can't enter any floor, forcing them to down to the bottom where the only door at that level is an exit to the street.

it's farking stupid, stupid, stupid.

That's *ESPECIALLY* stupid: What if stairwell A is blocked at the 6th floor because of damage or fire? Then you can't exit on the 7th floor to bypass it by going to stairwell B. Or *ANY* floor. In essence, you'd be trapped in the stairwell.

HotWingConspiracy:StoPPeRmobile: HotWingConspiracy: Legislation being submitted to Council would require building owners to provide visible access to stairs and post signs encouraging their use near elevators

StoPPeRmobile:HotWingConspiracy: StoPPeRmobile: HotWingConspiracy: Legislation being submitted to Council would require building owners to provide visible access to stairs and post signs encouraging their use near elevators

cman:pueblonative: cman: You are right. Governments can demand changes on basis for reasons of public safety. My premise was wrong with the way it was worded.

Let me try that again:

Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot for the sole purpose of making someone act a certain way is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

One of these things is just like the other. . .

Obesity is a public safety issue? I don't think buildings have collapsed yet because of people being too damn fat

Obesity is a public health issue. You have a problem with the government paying for vaccine research and ensuring that kids get their shots? Same thing. We got fat through deliberate decisions made by corporate and government leaders (food science, mainly, plus the corn subsidy). Why can't the government try to fix it? You know the food corporations aren't going to; obesity = profits.

Richard C Stanford:So how do we solve the obesity crises? I say we just don't make any accommodations for fat bastards. If you can't fit in the ambulance, then you don't get any medicine. It's time to start holding people responsible and stop coddling them. We need to thin the herd somehow.

cman:PC LOAD LETTER: cman: Mister Bloomberg is one of the primary architects of what big government should be like.

Let me make this easy for you: big government can be used as a tool for good but this isn't one of those things. This is one of those things that overreaches, micromanaging people's lives for the sole purpose of micromanaging people's lives. Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

Demanding stairs be placed in a different spot? You realize that there are umteen regulations on stair placement already, so this just changes that to be somewhat more user-accessible? In fact, it's easier to architect instead of hiding the stairs like they currently do. Do you think stairs are just placed willy-nilly and that this impinges on the freedom of the architects and designers or something? Come on, I have seen conservative whining before, but this is pants-on-head retarded.

You are right. Governments can demand changes on basis for reasons of public safety. My premise was wrong with the way it was worded.

Let me try that again:

Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot for the sole purpose of making someone act a certain way is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

"Making". You keep using this word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Seriously, how is he making people do anything? Making would be shutting down the elevators and escalators. He's not doing that. People are free to use either. This just makes it easier to use the stairs, which is great for me. I am sure there are plenty like me. I am sure there are some folks who would love to exercise more but can't because they can't use their stairs at work. If they want to use the elevator and escalator, they can and will.

No forcing, just easier access and placement. Geez, you still have the right and FREEDOM to be fat and wheeze your way into an early grave. No one is taking that away from you.

The Crepes of Wrath:Richard C Stanford: So how do we solve the obesity crises? I say we just don't make any accommodations for fat bastards. If you can't fit in the ambulance, then you don't get any medicine. It's time to start holding people responsible and stop coddling them. We need to thin the herd somehow.

Another variant of zero tolerance, which works incredibly well.

The only people I'd eliminate would be the ones who want to thin the herd. It's your plan, jagoff; you first.

SuburbanCowboy:The diet part is way more important than the exercise part (though everyone should be exercising too). It takes about 24 flights of stairs to burn off a third of an oreo cookie, so I'd say getting people to cut back on the amount of crap they eat is much more significant.

And New Yorkers walk way way more than the average American does.

The average person eats 4.9 times a day. This compares to 3.8 times 30 years ago. We've become conditioned to believe that it's normal to be snacking all of the time and stores are more than happy to accommodate that. You can buy food at pretty much any business you go into.

Then there is the matter of ever-increasing portion size. We just eat too damn much.

This text is now purple:mbillips: Obesity is a public health issue. You have a problem with the government paying for vaccine research and ensuring that kids get their shots? Same thing.

Obesity isn't contagious. Try again.

Neither are cerebral palsy, multiple sclerosis, ALS, cancer, fibromyalgia or asthma. The government can't try to do anything about those? Even though simple regulation (like banning lead paint) can produce significant improvements in public health?

dittybopper:THX 1138: It's particularly infuriating when a building is designed so that the stairs are an exit only, meaning that once a person is in the stairwell, all doors are locked so they can't enter any floor, forcing them to down to the bottom where the only door at that level is an exit to the street.

it's farking stupid, stupid, stupid.

That's *ESPECIALLY* stupid: What if stairwell A is blocked at the 6th floor because of damage or fire? Then you can't exit on the 7th floor to bypass it by going to stairwell B. Or *ANY* floor. In essence, you'd be trapped in the stairwell.

My apologies. I didn't clarify that (in my experience at least), buildings with stairwells that only open to ground level will automatically release door locks on all floors during an alarm, for exactly that reason. Still farking annoying.

THX 1138:dittybopper: THX 1138: It's particularly infuriating when a building is designed so that the stairs are an exit only, meaning that once a person is in the stairwell, all doors are locked so they can't enter any floor, forcing them to down to the bottom where the only door at that level is an exit to the street.

it's farking stupid, stupid, stupid.

That's *ESPECIALLY* stupid: What if stairwell A is blocked at the 6th floor because of damage or fire? Then you can't exit on the 7th floor to bypass it by going to stairwell B. Or *ANY* floor. In essence, you'd be trapped in the stairwell.

My apologies. I didn't clarify that (in my experience at least), buildings with stairwells that only open to ground level will automatically release door locks on all floors during an alarm, for exactly that reason. Still farking annoying.

cman:Mister Bloomberg is one of the primary architects of what big government should be like.

Let me make this easy for you: big government can be used as a tool for good but this isn't one of those things. This is one of those things that overreaches, micromanaging people's lives for the sole purpose of micromanaging people's lives. Banning king-sized soda cups and demanding that stairs are placed in a different spot is something that is a bit excessive for any sort of Government.

See, that's not actually it: he's not micromanaging people's lives just for the sake of it. He micromanages for the same reason businesses micromanage: to cut costs -real, imagined, and unknown- at any cost, "for the good of the business" (swap in "society" for "the business" in this case).

But micromanagement is a horrible practice. It does great harm, at an individual level and even at a corporate level, when applied to business. When applied to society, it gets even worse.

Rapmaster2000:SuburbanCowboy: The diet part is way more important than the exercise part (though everyone should be exercising too). It takes about 24 flights of stairs to burn off a third of an oreo cookie, so I'd say getting people to cut back on the amount of crap they eat is much more significant.

And New Yorkers walk way way more than the average American does.

The average person eats 4.9 times a day. This compares to 3.8 times 30 years ago. We've become conditioned to believe that it's normal to be snacking all of the time and stores are more than happy to accommodate that. You can buy food at pretty much any business you go into.

Then there is the matter of ever-increasing portion size. We just eat too damn much.

THIS. I don't recall snacking regularly as a kid. I coached a youth football team a few years ago, and those kids couldn't make it through practice without eating something or drinking some kind of sugary "sports drink."

It shouldn't be that hard to eat sensibly, but if you eat out a lot, you have to condition yourself to eat half of what's on your plate and take the rest home. And particularly in chain restaurants, they have whole research departments that balance the salt-sugar-fat ratio to make you crave the stuff and overeat.

I'm as bad as anyone else, although it's my fault. I'm a drunkard, and I like to eat salty things when I drink. Between the booze calories and the late-night popcorn, I'm pretty damn pudgy.

mbillips:Rapmaster2000: SuburbanCowboy: The diet part is way more important than the exercise part (though everyone should be exercising too). It takes about 24 flights of stairs to burn off a third of an oreo cookie, so I'd say getting people to cut back on the amount of crap they eat is much more significant.

And New Yorkers walk way way more than the average American does.

The average person eats 4.9 times a day. This compares to 3.8 times 30 years ago. We've become conditioned to believe that it's normal to be snacking all of the time and stores are more than happy to accommodate that. You can buy food at pretty much any business you go into.

Then there is the matter of ever-increasing portion size. We just eat too damn much.

THIS. I don't recall snacking regularly as a kid. I coached a youth football team a few years ago, and those kids couldn't make it through practice without eating something or drinking some kind of sugary "sports drink."

It shouldn't be that hard to eat sensibly, but if you eat out a lot, you have to condition yourself to eat half of what's on your plate and take the rest home. And particularly in chain restaurants, they have whole research departments that balance the salt-sugar-fat ratio to make you crave the stuff and overeat.

I'm as bad as anyone else, although it's my fault. I'm a drunkard, and I like to eat salty things when I drink. Between the booze calories and the late-night popcorn, I'm pretty damn pudgy.

You know what would be nice? Better urban planning, so that exercise is part of going about your normal day, not something you have to go out of your way to do.

Our office has taken to putting up passive aggressive notices in the stairwells saying thinks like "burn calories not oil!" Doesn't change the fact that the stairs are dreary, ill-lit, smelly and way off in the corner of the building.

THX 1138:dittybopper: THX 1138: It's particularly infuriating when a building is designed so that the stairs are an exit only, meaning that once a person is in the stairwell, all doors are locked so they can't enter any floor, forcing them to down to the bottom where the only door at that level is an exit to the street.

it's farking stupid, stupid, stupid.

That's *ESPECIALLY* stupid: What if stairwell A is blocked at the 6th floor because of damage or fire? Then you can't exit on the 7th floor to bypass it by going to stairwell B. Or *ANY* floor. In essence, you'd be trapped in the stairwell.

My apologies. I didn't clarify that (in my experience at least), buildings with stairwells that only open to ground level will automatically release door locks on all floors during an alarm, for exactly that reason. Still farking annoying.

Ah, OK, that makes a bit more sense. Unless, of course, the system farks up.

I *HATE* relying on technology for shiat like that. And I'm a programmer/analyst. Or maybe it's *BECAUSE* I work with high-tech stuff that I don't like it.

StoPPeRmobile:mbillips: Rapmaster2000: SuburbanCowboy: The diet part is way more important than the exercise part (though everyone should be exercising too). It takes about 24 flights of stairs to burn off a third of an oreo cookie, so I'd say getting people to cut back on the amount of crap they eat is much more significant.

And New Yorkers walk way way more than the average American does.

The average person eats 4.9 times a day. This compares to 3.8 times 30 years ago. We've become conditioned to believe that it's normal to be snacking all of the time and stores are more than happy to accommodate that. You can buy food at pretty much any business you go into.

Then there is the matter of ever-increasing portion size. We just eat too damn much.

THIS. I don't recall snacking regularly as a kid. I coached a youth football team a few years ago, and those kids couldn't make it through practice without eating something or drinking some kind of sugary "sports drink."

It shouldn't be that hard to eat sensibly, but if you eat out a lot, you have to condition yourself to eat half of what's on your plate and take the rest home. And particularly in chain restaurants, they have whole research departments that balance the salt-sugar-fat ratio to make you crave the stuff and overeat.

I'm as bad as anyone else, although it's my fault. I'm a drunkard, and I like to eat salty things when I drink. Between the booze calories and the late-night popcorn, I'm pretty damn pudgy.

It's easy. Don't eat the bread and white rice. Then eat some veggies.

I try to avoid simple carbs, except for an occasional sandwich, and I buy good bread with no sugar in it. F'rinstance, dinner last night was a braised smoked pork chop with carrots and onions, with roasted Brussels sprouts on the side. I'm fine until about 8 p.m., and fine if I don't drink, but therein lies the rub.

dittybopper:THX 1138: dittybopper: THX 1138: It's particularly infuriating when a building is designed so that the stairs are an exit only, meaning that once a person is in the stairwell, all doors are locked so they can't enter any floor, forcing them to down to the bottom where the only door at that level is an exit to the street.

it's farking stupid, stupid, stupid.

That's *ESPECIALLY* stupid: What if stairwell A is blocked at the 6th floor because of damage or fire? Then you can't exit on the 7th floor to bypass it by going to stairwell B. Or *ANY* floor. In essence, you'd be trapped in the stairwell.

My apologies. I didn't clarify that (in my experience at least), buildings with stairwells that only open to ground level will automatically release door locks on all floors during an alarm, for exactly that reason. Still farking annoying.

Ah, OK, that makes a bit more sense. Unless, of course, the system farks up.

I *HATE* relying on technology for shiat like that. And I'm a programmer/analyst. Or maybe it's *BECAUSE* I work with high-tech stuff that I don't like it.

But micromanagement is a horrible practice. It does great harm, at an individual level and even at a corporate level, when applied to business. When applied to society, it gets even worse.

that's such bull shiat. Bloomberg recently expanded the cities recycling program, more plastics were added to the list of recyclables. meaning my stupid little yogurt cups, salad containers, and other thinner plastics now go in the blue bin. Did my block collectively freak out and descend into a chaotic frenzy? No. Not at all. Same with his new initiated compost program. This works all over Europe as well ...they have been recycling for decades longer than NY and you know what? They don't have issues with rats and other public health problems.

A Mayor's essential duties are to 'micro-manage' a city or township, they take care of things that individual citizens cannot do alone, and they usually get shiat done faster than the feds. This isn't a debate about regulation, it's common farking sense.

dittybopper:THX 1138: dittybopper: THX 1138: It's particularly infuriating when a building is designed so that the stairs are an exit only, meaning that once a person is in the stairwell, all doors are locked so they can't enter any floor, forcing them to down to the bottom where the only door at that level is an exit to the street.

it's farking stupid, stupid, stupid.

That's *ESPECIALLY* stupid: What if stairwell A is blocked at the 6th floor because of damage or fire? Then you can't exit on the 7th floor to bypass it by going to stairwell B. Or *ANY* floor. In essence, you'd be trapped in the stairwell.

My apologies. I didn't clarify that (in my experience at least), buildings with stairwells that only open to ground level will automatically release door locks on all floors during an alarm, for exactly that reason. Still farking annoying.

Ah, OK, that makes a bit more sense. Unless, of course, the system farks up.

I *HATE* relying on technology for shiat like that. And I'm a programmer/analyst. Or maybe it's *BECAUSE* I work with high-tech stuff that I don't like it.

It could be that the design is like the magnetic holds that keep the fire doors open in the corridors of my building. When there's power, the magnets hold; when the power is off (for any reason), the magnets release to let the doors close. Maybe in his building, power off = stairwell doors unlock.

Bloomberg has been doing this in his corporate headquarters in NYC for years:

-The elevators only stop at every 3rd floor. If your floor is not one of them, you need to walk 1 or 2 flights up or down after getting off at the closest floor.-On the other floors, the elevators are hidden behind hinged wall segments. It's quite odd the first time the elevator doors open and you're staring at a wall.-Anyone with medical reasons (disability/injury/pregnancy/etc.) has their ID card programmed to override the elevator so they can go to any floor. Whenever someone swipes their card like this, everybody in the elevator immediately pushes their direct floor so they don't have to take the stairs.