Comments on: Haggard Accuser Says Haggard Encouraged Sex, Drug Usehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyMon, 07 Aug 2017 19:21:39 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.5By: Jonathan Justicehttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405#comment-31844
Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:04:48 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8405#comment-31844What we find hot or not is not the relevant question. While the relevant taste would seem to have been Mr. Haggard’s, the question is whether what he did was an abusive part of a pattern of abuse. It was. While Mr. Jones did get some compensation out of it, and avoided the worst of the side effects to his virtue (Latin for “manliness” after all), the two cases mark out a pretty serious trend where a guy with money and cultural clout marshalled those resources to very privately get his way with men who subsequently experienced fierce criticism about their standing to publicly call Mr. Haggard to account for his hypocrisy.

The abuse is against the underlying standard of essential equality, and that may be the issue that sends so many people into fits over the question of the very existence of homosexual persons who enjoy both the hold on sanity the Evelyn Hooker demonstrated and the genuine engagement with ethical issues that Mike Jones did. If some kind of essential interpersonal equality exists, then hierarchical social systems are problematical, especially if they regularly lead to the kind of abuses we are discussing here. What scares the devotees of such systems is that they fear equality itself. Preferring to see social life as a war in which they only get what they want by affiliating with powerful men (and maybe Margaret Thatcher once in a while) to take it away from people whom they identify as so entirely less deserving that they should convert to their particular system and advertise their low rank, or just go away and die (with or without help).

To such persons, the idea that the rest of us might actually be working together to create a society in which we freely go home at the end of the day to our own versions of those biblical vine and fig tree packages (instead of using the rhetoric to operate a competing hierarchical system) is the biggest threat of all because it rejects their claims to power over us.

That said, it does seem as though Grant is going through a very emotionally confusing time. His first mistake was looking to the evangelical community for support. His second mistake is getting caught up in drugs and alcohol.

I hope he gets the help he needs. Move to SF, girlfriend, and get into a good mainline church, go back to school, and stay away from Crystal.

]]>By: Timothy Kincaidhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405#comment-31794
Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:39:54 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8405#comment-31794I would not be inclined to see Haas today as a particularly alluring sexual temptation, one for which I would be willing to sacrifice a position of authority such as the one Haggard held.

But within the KRDO video we see another Grant Haas, one that seemed to be in better physical health and who had a more hopeful expression in his eyes. One which I think most folks could agree fit society’s general consensus about attractiveness.

And perhaps that is the most infuriating part of this new development. Grant Haas’ emotional health took a hit by all of this and he reported turning to alcohol and drugs. It seems he may have also turned to food and to a loss of self-worth.

I hope Haas has – or finds – happiness. But it seems to me that Haggard has far worse sins on his conscience than sexual indiscretions or even dishonesty. He has harmed the well being of others.

Ick. In the KRDO article, New Life’s Boyd strived to assure his megachurch contributers that Haas’ hush money was being paid by insurance – not their tithes. However, if the money is paid by insurance, why isn’t the church paying as agreed?

Admittedly, I don’t know much about insurance settlements, but why would the settlement have to be paid in installments and isn’t the supposed insurance company concerned about futher legal exposure from Haas by not paying as agreed? Boyd says the church will not request Haas return any funds for speaking out, but he does’t say if the church, er, insurance company will fulfill its agreement.

]]>By: TJ McFistyhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405#comment-31787
Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:02:01 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8405#comment-31787Of course it was okay when it was well-built Mike Jones, but ewww, when it’s *that* guy. I’d take *that* guy over the bodybuilder any day–and I’m a bodybuilder.
]]>By: Emily Khttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405#comment-31785
Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:48:07 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8405#comment-31785I think he’s cute! Jeez, why is it when somebody doesn’t look a stereotypical pretty-boy (eg Brad Pitt) he’s not attractive? But I’m a lesbian, what do I know? And besides, gay culture still has a place for him in at least one way- he could be called a “cub.”

I think it’s shameful that the Moody Bible Institute kicked him out. In the conservative Christian world, in their terms, he was only asking for help and they “should” have only asked him to go to some Exodus affiliate. But they threw him out. (in the regular world, I would want them to completely accept him and for him to accept himself.) But they didn’t even do theformer.

Just because he’s not your definition of cute doesn’t mean anything. I’m no “gay-boi” stereotype, either; in fact I think he and I share more than a few characteristics, physically.

And there are plenty of people who find me attractive, not in spite, but BECAUSE of who I am.

If you can’t wrap your worldview around that, well, perhaps you could go be brutish elsewhere.

(Oh, and for the record, Piper, I, too think that he’s a cute fellow.)

]]>By: Piperhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405#comment-31770
Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:19:20 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8405#comment-31770hey! That is really not cool. Just because you don’t find the guy attractive doesn’t mean that others don’t.
If he were straight, I’d have a crush.
]]>By: L. Junius Brutushttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/27/8405#comment-31768
Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:06:52 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8405#comment-31768Haggard endangered his job and family for *that* guy?
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