Chad Ford Says Moe Wagner Will be Moved Into His Top 20 Draft Prospects List On Monday

Chad Ford Says Moe Wagner Will be Moved Into His Top 20 Draft Prospects List On Monday

Happy for Moe for his hard work being recognized but damn Im so excited to see what Wagner, Wilson, and Rhakman could do as our big 3 next year. It'd suck if he left for the draft after this year

I personally hope he stays to develop his game one more year. I'd hate to see him end up like a Stauskas or GRIII who could've obviously used more college time to develop but left early because the draft experts said they were ready

Also, I feel like with our Tourney success so far and Beilein really being portrayed in the national media as a caring fun guy (Super soaker/plane crash coverage) I think its increased our chances to land Mohammad Bamba ten fold.

I'd LOVE to see double Mo's, Mo Bamba and Moe Wagner, playing side by side. Itd be the thing dreams are made of

...but is it really true that Stauskas needed another year in college? To me it seems like the main adjustment he needed to make in pro ball was to speed up his release on his shot. (Well, OK, maybe that part was easy and it was getting the accuracy back afterwards that was hard.) That adjustment wasn't going to happen until it was forced by the length and speedier closeouts he saw in the NBA; I don't think another year in college would have helped him there.

the idea that guys who don't have long careers in the NBA would have had a longer career if they had they stayed in college longer is completely asinine. Stauskas and GRIII have been practicing and playing basketball against better players for many more hours with better instruction than they would have been allowed to had they stayed in college.

If they don't have long careers it's because they weren't good enough. Having a long career in the NBA is really, really hard. It's not as simple to do as playing four years in college.

Actually your logic is asinine. According to your logic ever NBA prospect should leave after one year. If you think any player should ever stay for 2+ years then you have already disagreed with your own logic.

Or because staying that extra year allows them to increase their draft stock and maximize that 1st contract. If he's in the 20's, maybe he should come back to play himself into the Lottery ...but if he somehow plays himself in to the lottery this year, unless he really loves college, I wouldn't be mad at all if he left.

Yeah that is exactly true. And exactly what my above post was saying. Many times it makes sense to come back to school. Even if the only concern is NBA success. NBA teams give top picks much more a chance to stick on the roster.

Does every player improve their draft stock by staying an extra year? Is there an actual correlation between staying and making more money or career longevity? I see this argument a lot but never any evidence to support it.

Some years it will and some years it won't. Really it is dependent on the quality at the top of the draft from year to year. Sure, sometimes players come back, show a ton of improvement, then see a jump in stock. But the easiest way to improve your draft stock is having less talent in the draft.

Hoiberg was at Iowa State, so he got better simply by being Bulls coach? Not all of the best basketball minds are in NBA, which is why Coach K is Olympic team top choice.

Coach B is one of the best teachers in the game at any level. Those NBA coaches not named Brett Brown are not hired to teach, but to win. Darko was a flop because he was raw and many coaches at pro level want ready to play players, not projects. The reason the NBA is not exciting: players lack polished games and rely too much on athleticism.

Stauskas' problem in the NBA is mainly mental. He just can't be a starter, for whatever reason. As a starter he shoots 36% overall and 31% from 3 with a 46% true shooting in 28 minutes. Off the bench he shoots 47% overall, 43% from 3 with a 64% true shooting in 25 minutes a game. It's all mental with him.

It's all about skill set. Dekker had an NBA skill set and left early from Wisconsin. Happ and Hayes are good players but neither are as dynamically skilled as Wagner(Has range, post moves, & can dribble from top of the key)

But Dekker seemed more NBA-ready during his tournament run. I still think Wagner needs another year to fine-tune everything. Both guys have very similar skill sets, but Dekker seemed to play a lot more in control. Wagner still gets WAY too bonkers sometimes. He's at his best when he doesn't overdribble.

Is considered a "wing," but he's only an inch or two at most shorter than Wagner. He just seemed a lot more fluid than Wagner at their same point in development.

Again, it is very hard to quantify that but that's what I'm seeing when I watch. I always felt Dekker was in control of himself and I still get very nervous when Wagner starts a move from the top of the key. He's the best when he posts up closer to the rim and/or turns and faces to hit a shot.

Sure, but most second-rounders don't get anything guaranteed. Davis got relatively lucky. A case like Manny Harris, who left after his junior year and was undrafted, is just as common. To his credit, Harris has been making a career out of basketball, but he's bounced around the D-League, the NBA, and international teams, which isn't exactly the scenario most guys who leave college early picture when they make that decision.

I think it's a valid criticism. In his Michigan tenure, he's only recruited one truly elite player (McGary). Most of his recruits have been under the radar 3 and 4 star types that take 2-3 years to develop. It's very impressive that he is able to turn these guys into NBA players but when you have guys that jump to the NBA early and you don't recruit elite players that are ready to replace the departing guys on day one, it leads to a lack of consistency or in Michigan's case missing the postseason in 2015 and a first round exit in 2016. This season's B1G title and Sweet Sixteen is the end result of Beilein's development of Wagner and Wilson, but worst case scenario Michigan loses both of them to the NBA along with Walton and Irvin and you are right back to 2015 with an unheralded recruiting class and this year's freshmen class that produced very little. If he was bring in top 5-10 classes every year, Michigan could weather the loss of Wilson and/or Wagner.

I was thinking while watching the tournament that an optimal recruiting strategy is to target guys who are highly skilled, but lack some quality that NBA teams are looking for. Obviously it's nice to grab 6'10" guys who can jump out of the building if you can, but they'll probably leave after a year. So it might be better to grab a 6'8" guy who can't jump as high but is a good shooter, because you can have him for 3-4 years.

With a few exceptions, Beilein recruits seem to fit this mold. Derrick Walton is a great college PG, but the fact that he's somewhere in the 6-foot range means that the NBA isn't beating his door down. If he were 6'4", he might have left after his freshman year. Likewise, shooters like Stauskas, Duncan Robinson (I realize he was a transfer), and Wagner aren't immediate NBA risks because they lack top-end athleticism. It takes epic production like Stauskas' sophomore year or potentially Wagner's tournament this year before they're even considered.

Looking at our young guys and incoming recruits, Xavier Simpson is 5'11". Teske and Davis look like good college prospects, but don't have first-round NBA athleticism. Livers is big for a college guy but undersized for an NBA PF. And guys like Eli Brooks and Ibi Watson are too under-the-radar for the NBA to take immediate notice. All of those guys could be four-year players, which is excellent.

Weathering the storm, here? Has UM not been more consistently competitive the last six years than since Fisher?

Is UM not doing better than Duke and Louisville and others this year? Is Wisconsin's roster made of of 5-stars? They just beat Villanova.

Coach B gets guys who he sees as having high-level raw talent, and he gets to work with those kids for years. I dislike the Kentucky and Kansas models--mostly UK. Who wants to root for an entirely new roster every year? Moe and DJ and Walton are great stories--talented kids who developed under our coach, and were not seeking to use UM only as a stepping stone.

This is only based on articles I have read, but I am more worried about DJ. Moe could be getting paid right now and a cult hero for his hometown German team. I see him enjoying the ride and college way too much.

Its all pure speculation, as they both could go, but think they would profit from another year.

A starting 5 of Mo, DJ, Matthews, Rahk, and Simpson next season might be one of the most athletically dynamic lineups Beilein has ever thrown out there. Hope everyone stays because we might be even better next year

There were sources that stated that both were coming back, but damn Mo put on an NBA mix-tape on Sunday. Look at his highlight video, he showed the ability to score in like 7-8 different ways. That has to have NBA scouts drooling. I have a feeling his stock is rising.

I think Wilson will definitely be back, but Mo at this point is 70-30 on returning. I think he wants to stay. Remember he went out of his way to choose the American college experience over going pro in Germany, and the kid looks like he's having a ton of fun out there. Unlike most American prospects, he isn't looking at college as a short stepping stone to the NBA. Hopefully he still has that mentality after the season because while I think he has what it takes, I do think he still has areas that he can improve and would still be a project for NBA teams. One more year at UM should make him into a lottery pick.

If I were an NBA draft-nik, I'd pick Wilson over Wagner if they were both available this year. DJ seems to have quicker feet on the defensive end, he seems to time his shot block attempts better and, while his offensive game is different the Wagner's, it is still quality. I could see DJ being a guy you put on Durant, or Karl-Anthony Towns, or Anthony Davis, or Kawhi Leonard, or Giannis Antetokounmpo, or Carmelo Anthony (or even put him a long 2 like Harden or Derozan or Butler) as an effective defensive stopper in a few years. I don't see that with Wagner.

I'm not saying the Wagner isn't going to be a quality NBA guy, I just see more options with Wilson at present.

DJ is probably maxed out in terms of potential so he should defintely consider leaving if he is a surefire 1st Round Pick. I don't see his stock getting any higher next year even if he makes incremental improvements.

I feel like that would be totally irresponsible to give him the sense that he's a top 20 draft pick right now. They're saying this is one of the deepest, youngest classes in history, Moe is not an NBA big man body yet. I'm excited to see what he can do after they put 15-20 pounds on his gram this offseason though.

But I think both of them could raise their stock by staying another year. Best case scenario--they get enough attention from the NBA that they can take out big $$$ insurance policies on themselves to protect against major injuries and still play for one more season to improve their draft stock.