Your Ancestral Family, LLC provides professional genealogy research services with a specialization in the United States, Canada, the British Isles and Western Europe. Located in Oakland County, Michigan, Your Ancestral Family, LLC is a full-service genealogical and historical research company which provides custom research packages, on-site record pick-ups as well as customized family tree wall charts and professionally done family history books.

Monday, September 27, 2010

Paternal Haplogroup - R1b1b2a1a2f

From Wikipedia;

R1b1b2a1a2f2

This subclade within R-L21 is defined by the presence of the marker M222. It is particularly associated with male lines which are Irish or Scottish, but especially northern Irish. In this case, the relatively high frequency of this specific subclade among the population of certain counties in northwestern Ireland may be due to positive social selection, as it is suggested to have been the Y-chromosome haplogroup of the Uí Néill dynastic kindred of ancient Ireland.[30] However it is not restricted to the Uí Néill as it is also associated with the closely related Connachta dynasties, called the Uí Briúin and Uí Fiachrach.[51] M222 is also found as a substantial proportion of the population of Scotland which may indicate substantial settlement from northern Ireland or at least links to it.[30][52] Those areas settled by large numbers of Irish and Scottish emigrants such as North America have a substantial percentage of M222.[30]

From Moffat DNA Project (familytreedna):

Irish 1 - Members of this cluster are descendants of the semi-mythical Irish King, Niall of the Nine Hostages or one of his male relatives. Niall is thought to have lived in the late 4th and early 5th centuries. His prolific descendants ruled Ulster and Leinster between the 6th and 10th centuries A.D. This cluster shares a common ancestor with the Irish 2 cluster between 4,500 and 1,500 years ago. Members of this cluster share a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) marker at M222. The subclade is formally known as R1b1b2a1a2f2 and is especially associated with Scottish and Irish populations. It is likely to have entered Scotland through the Dalriadic migrations of the 6th to 8th Centuries A.D. (see Irish 2 below). Both clusters share the L21 SNP mutation that defines their common subclade.

Irish 2 – A member of this cluster completed extensive SNP testing of his haplotype in late 2009 confirming that members of this cluster have the R-L21 mutation that characterises haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f. Members of this cluster share a common ancestor with the Ui Neill and Dalcassian Royal Families between 1,500 and 4,500 years ago in northwest Ireland, where these haplotypes are most prevalent. By ancient times, these Irish tribes had become a distinctly Celtic cluster of Iron Age farmers. They were known by Ptolemy, in the 2nd Century A.D. as the Voluntii. Modern scholars call them the Ulaid. By the 5th Century A.D., they had merged with surrounding tribes into a cluster called the Scotti, the people who gave their name to the modern nation of Scotland. Between the 6th and 8th Centuries A.D., this tribe established a kingdom on the west coast of Scotland called Dalriada. They eventually merged with the Picts to form the Kingdom of Alba, the precursor to medieval Scotland. It is very likely that members of this cluster came to Scotland between 500 and 700 A.D. from the region of Ulster, Ireland.

103 comments:

This is extremely interesting to me. I found that I am in the paternal haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2f. And who would have thought I would find this info out by doing DNA testing for possible health concerns?! This is interesting as well because I have hit a wall in my family research just before the Civil War. This predates that tremendously.

My husband has this haplotype and his surname on his paternal line is Miller. He descends from Henry Miller and Rebecca Boggs, who emigrated from Derry, Ireland in 1757. We are trying to find more on Millers from this area in Ireland / N Ireland and Scotland. His Millers were Scotch-Irish Presbyterians who came first to Lancaster County, PA and then migrated to Rockbridge County, VA. I am interested in sharing info with others interested in this line. Sharlene Miller smiller@stjoelive.com

My surname is BARKER and my paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f2, The problem is that I am not sure if "Barker" is the real surname for my paternal lineage.

My great grandfather Abijah Barker was an indentured child from an extremely young age. The story goes that he was so young when he went into service that he cold not remember his own name and took the name of his owner. I can't find any records about him or the Barker lineage earlier that 1860 when he first appeared in Camden, New Jersey, US.

We suspect he was sent over to the US from Ireland. The R1b1b2a1a2f2 haplogroup tends to support that.

Hi, I am Portuguese and also a r1b1b2a1a2f*, still not sure about the meaning of the * though. I grew up as the only blond kid in the village with light eyes (green), several of my uncles have blue eyes. Clearly there is very non Portuguese characteristics. Our family name is Martins Lisboa and we come from Serra da Estrela.

My paternal haplogroup is r1b1b2a1a2f* and my surname is Murray. My grandfather came to the U.S. (Gloucester, MA) from Argentia, Newfoundland. I have traced a couple more generations back in NF, but haven't been able to find the origins of my Murray family roots in Ireland. Now I have a better idea on where to look in Ireland/Scotland. Any other ...a1a2f Murrays out there?

Pedro, My father's mother was named Castello and I understand that the name came from Spain.

Re "Murray" my surname is "Morrison" which is found on the Isle of Lewis in Scotland. The Morrison clan "moved in" with the Murray clan after some clan warfare. The Morrison green tartan is the Murray tartan with a red stripe added. I also am from the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup and my paternal grandfather came from Woodstock in Ontario, Canada

Hi McGuinness, Sorry about the late reply, I just happened upon this website again and noticed I had posted something! My Dad is from Dundalk (b.1947), his Dad was from Carrickmacross. I'm pretty sure we have cousins up in Crossmaglen in Armagh. I think that Dad did some rudimentary family tree with cousins and all from that area, so I'll ask him to take a look. If you'd would like to email me at: tectonictom@gmail.com I can see if there's also a Malone/McGuinness link on our end. Regards, Thomas Malone, Christchurch, NZ.

I'm R1b1b2a1a2f*, our paternal name is McCreary and we can verify our paternal bloodline as McCreary/McCrery/McCreery back to mid-1700s in what is now Marshall County WV. Family lore is that our ancestors were Scots Irish, but I've been unable to make that connection.

We share the same haplo group and we have the Dickson/Dixon last name. Our family came from Scotland around Kirkudbrightshire area and moved to the Ulster Plantation in Northern Ireland (Newry) when the land was opened in Ireland for English and Scottish to settle.

I'm R1b1b2a1a2f* as well. I have particular interest in this haplogroup because my g-g-grandfather (born 1750 in Edinburgh, Scotland)was a bastard child raised by his maternal grandparents and took his moms name. I (being an addicted amateur genealogist)look forward to finding my paternal relation...

Surname is "White" and family lore was that the origin of the family was in Ireland. They lived in Stokes County, North Carolina as far back as the 1790s and prior to that are difficult to trace with certainty.

My father is from this paternal haplogroup as well. He is Oliver Miller White IV. He actually might be a fifth rather than 4th, but it seems that the 1st Oliver White left his family during the Civil War and his son was changed to 1st instead of Oliver M. White 2nd. My dad is a 3rd or 4th generation from New Orleans with Irish roots. The first Oliver M. White was from a northern state but not N. Carolina.

Like some of the previous commenters I'm R1b1b2a1a2f* too. My g-g-g-g-grandfather, William Graham was born in Killiecrankie, Scotland in 1744 and emigrated to America via Belfast, Ireland with two brothers sometime in the early 1770's. By the late 1790's William was living in Kentucky. I don't know what became of the two brothers but William had a large family and many of his descendants ended up migrating west across the country to Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Colorado, and California.

I just received my Y chromosome results from 23and me indicating that my paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f*.

While my maternal grandfather's mothers line were allCanadian Hebridean immigrants this would have no baring on my paternal line.

I was told that my earliest know paternal ancestor George Hamilton Warren was most likely a lineal descendant Of James Warren the Scottish captive. The battle in which the latter was taken prisoner was in the Scottish Borders which I believe is mainly Saxon? to allow the said prisoner to be a Celt kindred member?Norman . Would there have been enough Celts in the Border area

From what I the DNA testing of Britons has shown,is that Saxons were concentrated more on the East of Britain, while the Celts on the West (which makes complete sense, seeing as the Saxons came from the East). So there's more chance he came from the West side of the border lands. However, we are only discussing probabilities, so it doesn't mean that there weren't Saxons in the West or Celts in the East...

They say the common paternal ancestor of R1b1b2a1a2f comes from about 500 CE. So that's, what, like 60 generations ago? Given an infidelity rate of 2% per generation, I think there would be about a 30% chance of your surname coming from the common ancestor (if surnames existed then). If the infidelity rate was 3%, then that percentage would drop to about half of that.

Of course, our surnames originated hundreds of years after the common ancestor. There could be hundreds of surnames from this haplogroup. Unfortunately, most of those surnames do not even represent a direct paternal line.

Once you get to about 20-40 generations, it is just as likely you received your surname from someone who was not your biological paternal ancestor as it is that the man with that surname was your biological paternal ancestor.

Hi,I beg to differ. Here's why:R1b1b2a1a2f2 comes from Niall of the Nine Hostages, and he gave his name to what became the O'Neill clan (the most powerful ones in known Irish history, at that). Malones (O'Maileon), are said to have come from an O'Neill that joined the monastic ('mail') order of St John ('eon'). So, one would expect to see the R1b1b2a1a2f2 in a Malone. Sure, it could be that there was a g-g-g-g-g-grandmother who was infidel, or the victim or rape by someone of the R1b1b2a1a2f2 haplogroup, but this would be unlikely. The key thing is that I was aware that I was possibly a descendant of the infamous 'Niall' before I had my DNA sequenced; so, you can imagine how shocked I was when I googled "R1b1b2a1a2f2" and it attributed this haplogroup to 'Niall'. Furthermore, my research has shown that most Malones are R1b1. So, while not 100% conclusive, the evidence is still very consistent. Regards, Tom.

Well, I'm the only one among you for whom Irish ancestry was a complete surprise... My father's father originated from Russian peasants from Tambov region of Russia. Maybe some viking brought these genes from Ireland to that region of Russia. Anyway, I lived in Ireland for several years and I'm fond of all things Irish, so this is a pleasant surprise for me :)

my paternal uncle is the same haplogroup...and one of our lines traces back to Simmons/Symonds...my GG Grandmother was a Simmons - and her family goes back to Moses Simmons/Symonds born in Leiden Holland [1604] and came on the ship Fortune to the Plymouth Colony in 1621.MJ...no doubt we are cousins...way back

I have the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup. The family name is Simons. I grew up on a farm in northern Illinois. The paternal line is connected to the William Simons b. 1659 in Salem, MA. My genealogy guru sister hasn't broken through to any connection for William's parents yet. But I think from my English research, that he's related to the Symonds family in England. There was a offshoot of the family in the early 1600's that changed their first names and were extremist Puritans. A very likely group to travel across the pond at the time.

R1b1b2a1a2f* is my paternal halogroup. I am still learning a lot concerning genectics and such. My ancestors for at least the last 3 or 4 generations are from Kentucky. The last 3 generations mainly living in Southeastern Ky.Our surname is Cox. We are also closely related to the Parker family.If anyone would like information on my family tree I will gladly share.

Jack, I have just learned that my older brother and I do not have the same father. My Y testing at FTDNA shows that my line is most likely Cocoran, Cochran, Cockerman, etc... I would like to look at your GA relatives to see if any relate to me. Do you have an online tree? My email address is: hosea49@gmail.comHosea

My last name is Papasavas, my father was Greek and all his relatives are from Greece. I tested at 23&me and fall into the R1b1b2a1a2f Haplogroup. I am trying to figure out how my father inherited this grouping.

probably through an adoption or infidelity, or premarital offspring, or a widowed woman with a fatherless child or even a sexual assault up in the lineage, and a subsequent adoption of the male offspring by the non-biological Papasavas father at some point - either way, it's a great bolt out of the blue!

Hello, Frank, I have a similar heritage My paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f – however, my great great grandfather hailed from a small seaport near Thessaloniki, Greece (Macedonia coastal area on the Aegean sea, Thessalonica, the second-largest city in Greece and the capital of the geographic region of Greek Macedonia).Orville Boyd Jenkins, EdD, PhD.’s research indicates: “It appears the Macedonians were a mixed people too, and various commentators mention their blondness and light colored eyes even for Alexander the Great. Some references indicate red hair also… It is likely they did carry a stream of Celtic genes and culture. Another ancient writer comments that the Thracians were blue-eyed and blond. Thrace is the area east of Macedonia, what is now the European part of Turkey across the Bosporus Strait from Istanbul, and was incorporated into the early Macedonian Empire. The Macedonians, an already-mixed northern group of Hellenic speakers who first united all the Hellenes in the Macedonian Empire, were dominantly blond.” “It is my reading of the historical indicators, however, that most of the current "blondism" in that region is attributable to the concentrated Norman (and perhaps Frankish along with other northern European Germanic peoples) infusion in the Middle Ages. These spread south and east during the era of the Crusades and the resulting Norman/Frankish kingdoms established in the Mediterranean and Middle East. The Normans were the last and most extensive Germanic group extending from their northern Viking habitat to the whole of Europe and much of Asia. Every royal family of Europe (excepting perhaps Turkey) has Norman heritage and genes. This is no secret. Hundreds and thousands of books have been written documenting this phenomenon and spinning out the stories and legends of the Normans. Normans and related lineages ruled Cyprus and much of western Asia for some centuries in the Middle Ages.” My mother’s genealogy on the other hand is very English, Scottish and French -- she is the 39 great granddaughter of John of Brienne – born in Champagne, France - but as I studied his history, John of Brienne went on the Crusades and became King of Jerusalem and Emperor of Constantinople in the 1200 BC -- who knows how many offspring these crusaders fathered as they sailed and conquered the lands on their way to Istanbul. My father had blue eyes and dark blond hair. -- his family's name was Avram -- son of Avram - surnames were not yet established in Greece -- so my grandfather was the son of his father's first name - Avramoff. - so I guess I am not totally surprised by the genealogy results, as my mother was attracted to his blue eyes. I am not totally flabbergasted that he is of this Irish, English, French descent -- R1b1b2a1a2f. I always wondered about my father's genealogy -- 23 and me has helped and I am so glad my brother was able to submit the test as he is the last of the male descendants. “You may not have my name but you have my blood ". So we enter the age that blood or actually DNA -- determines genealogical heritage -- it would be nice to have castles and land -- but I will take pride in my blue eyes, reddish blonde hair and freckles . My husband’s family originates from Caraloon, Magherafelt, Northern Ireland from 1750’s. So now I know why I have felt just as home as he did during our visits to Ireland and Northern Scotland :)

Just got my 23andme results. Preliminary results for the Paternal line have the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup... a big surprise to me, since as far as I knew my father's side was pureblood Acadien (they claim descent from Daniel LeBlanc, one of the original settlers of what is now New Brunswick).

Some research indicates this haplo can also be found in Brittany, though that's not the region of France I would expect (I'd expect Normandy, or central France).

Has anyone else heard or read about this haplo ending up in Acadien families? Or did one of my French Canadian great-grandmothers have a milkman from Nova Scotia (lol)?

I'm of the same R1b1b2a1a2f* group. I've commented earlier to a Symonds family reference earlier in the discussion. The interesting origin of the Symonds family in England is around the turn of the first Milena, Adam Fitz Simon was the 2nd son of a landed family in Normandy. Lucky for Adam, he married into an English family that ultimately became the Symonds. So through a torturous discussion, I'm suggesting that Normandy should not be counted out for your family origins yet, just because of the percentage of haplogroup would be rare.

Michael,I am Michael MacNamara and I live in Ireland. R1b1b2a1a2f* (and H14a) and I appear to be 100% Irish, at least from the 1700s. I live in Ireland now.

I lived in Acadie, in Fredericton and Amherst NS. I knew one family called Bourque. This was originally Burke as irish immigrants but before that was De Búrca. De Búrca was the Gaelicized version of the Norman De Burgo. This name had originated as French,became Irish and then Anglicized before returning to French. Excuse the longwindedness but I found lots of Irish names that had changed to French when they joined Les Acadiens. That would add paternal Irish DNA to Acadie and I think there was plety of that.mickmacnamara@yahoo.com

Just got my 23andme results. Preliminary results for the Paternal line have the R1b1b2a1a2f* haplogroup... a big surprise to me, since as far as I knew my father's side was pureblood Acadien.

I am in the same shoes as you. We (Roy) family can trace our male side back 10 generations in Acadie. All Acadian family names, no Irish. It would be interesting to know the % of Acadiens who can trace their lineages through this male Haplogroup

I think we all tend to look too short term here...from what I have gathered, it is more likely that you need to look back about 10 generations to see where they were to get a more accurate idea of locations. But more clarity would be welcomed. I think the common thread is the UK...and that would then include Norman invasion and the French backgrounds too....

Hello Friends and Relatives,I just found that I am also R1b1b2a1a2f from 23 and me, surname of Hamilton, with suggested origins in Scotland and Ireland, emigrating to Canada in the mid 1800's and then on to gods country in Rhode Island,I am overwhelmed with the details and information gained, just from spitting into a tube and mailing it off.All the bestArthur Hamilton

Fellow R1b1b2a1a2f here. My surname is Wilkerson, and I can only trace my paternal line back to the 1720's in Virginia (Most of my Wilkerson line lived in Georgia). Like several people here, I was surprised to find such a distinctly Irish haplogroup, as I thought my surname to be Anglo-Norman (Wilkers, Wilkins, Williams, William etc etc). I've even traced the name back to a potential origin with the Norman conquest of Wales. But I suppose a patronymic surname is just that-- a name which can be applied to anyone, centuries after it's originator. I'm afraid the link between my surname and my genetic Irish history may never be edified.

Im an African American male. And tested my DNA to figure out which part of Africa my ancestors were from (since its pretty much impossible to trace without one). Nigeria and Congo were my results through 23andme. My overall results were 80% Sub-saharan African, 15% European, and 5% East Asian. MTDNA= L2a1c (My mom)Paternal= R1b1b2a1a2f (My dad)Does that seriously mean, that I have slight Irish ancestry? My family originates from South Carolina and Savannah area of Georgia.

Yes Irish and Scottish as I understand. 23andme gives a time frame of last "500 years." My family hails from Ireland ...and Scotland in deeper roots. Paternal line: R1b1b2a1a2f. Now you must celebrate St. Patty's day this year!

My Paternal - R1B1B2A1A2F2Great-great grandparents were James and Anne (Fawcett) McCort. They were Presbyterians from Norther Ireland, James from County Fermanaugh, Anne from County Tyrone. Anne came to America with her parents in 1814. James came in 1818 or 1819. They were married in 1821. They settled first in Washington County Pennsylvania, but soon settled in the area of Steubenville, Ohio. James changed the spelling of his last name from MacCourt to McCort when he arrived from Ireland.

Frank,None of us can be absolutely certain as to the purity of our line of descent, and I'm certainly not implying anything untoward in yours. But in the late 19th & early 20th centuries passenger ships embarking for the USA from continental Europe would often stop off at various ports in the British Isles to take on additional steerage passengers. While the adults of various ethnicities would pretty much keep to themselves on the voyage, it's not hard to imagine a beautiful teenage Grecian lass catching the eye of a strapping teenage Irish boy. By the time they land in New York and go their seperate ways, the girl is with child. The family will, of course, raise the child as their own.

My R1b1b2a1a2f paternal halogroup surname is Pumphrey, and we've been traced back to the early 1400s, in Newnham and Little Dean near Gloucester in England. The name was originally "Pomfrey." The first Pumphrey in America built Burlington, West Jersey (now New Jersey) in 1678 with other Quakers, being among a second shipload of Quakers to arrive there after the first ship arrived in 1677. Migration was from New Jersey to Pennsylvania to Maryland to North Carolina to Kentucky for my line. From Kentucky, family lore has it that a father and his several sons intentionally split up and scattered with their families to different parts of the country, so that there are now little pockets of Pumphreys from my line living in far flung parts of the United States. My own Pumphrey ancestors stayed in Kentucky, however, where I was born in 1953.

R1b1b2a1a2f* results...... Curious what the * star means from 23andMe. My father's father's father supposedly came from Scotland with the last name of Roberts. Literally all I know. Does anyone know what the * designation means?

Here is the explanation from 23 and me: The naming of haplogroups is somewhat arbitrary. There are, however, a few rules. Most haplogroup names start with a capital letter (or two). Additional numbers and lowercase letters indicate haplogroups that are subgroups of the major haplogroup.All lineages of a subgroup share one or more mutations. Sometimes there are a few lineages that don't fit into any subgroup of a haplogroup. Since there isn't a mutation that links these lineages, they don't get their own subgroup. Instead, these lineages are given the main haplogroup label plus a star (*) to indicate that they are part of the main haplogroup but don't fit into any of the known subgroups. Example of these "star" lineages include I1* - the Mendels paternal haplogroup - as well as E1b1a8a* (Desmond Tutu) and E1b1b1c1* (Napoleon Bonaparte)."Star" lineages sometimes arise when a population grows rapidly. If your paternal haplogroup assignment ends with a star, your paternal lineage may have participated in such a population expansion. The age of the haplogroup indicates, roughly, when that rapid population growth happened.Sometimes research leads to the discovery of mutations that link several of the "star" lineages. When that happens the lineages get a new name and lose their "star" designation.We hope this is helpful to you.

In my family the paternal line here in America seems to be associated with the Welsh surname "Burton."

My maternal line is U5a1.

The company that analyzed my DNA describes U5a1 thus:"Today U5a1 is most commonly found in places such as Norway and northern Germany."

This is puzzling, since the maternal line is from Italy, presumably rooted there for many generations--but perhaps not! Perhaps the arrival is fairly recent. More research is needed to sort out that conundrum.

If you consider that Portugal, as seafaring nation, was trading with other Atlantic nations; it isn't hard to imagine admixture from the West of Ireland, in what is essentially the ancient equivalent of our main roads and railway lines. Galicia, just above Portugal, is the Celtic part of Spain, and they share many cultural norms with their British counterparts, so this makes absolute sense.

My Dad's paternal dna came back R1b1b2a1a2f and the family surname is Page. We believed it to come from England, but only have the Page's back to Colonial America so far. Does this mean it most likely is Irish? What is the difference between R1b1b2a1a2f and R1b1b2a1a2f2?

R1b1b2a1a2f2 here. Daly surname. Dublin from father to at least as far back as 1850's. Before that (possibly) County Longford. Daly comes from O'Dalaigh - and the ones in Ulster descended from O'Neills & I suppose Niall or one of his brothers.

R1b1b2a1a2f* I think we are out of Wurtemberg, Germany, mostly. Ancestry.com leads me to believe the Fair(Fehr) family may have been part of the Anabaptist, Amish, Mennonite exodus in 1700's to Baltimore MD, on to Somerset, PA and Holmes, OH. Maybe the (*) explains the 1000 yrs back to King Niall

I am R1b1b2a1a2f2 from my paternal line (per 23andMe) and have the surname of BARKER. The problem is that "Barker" may not be the real surname of my paternal lineage. My Great Grandfather Abijah Barker was an indentured child and first showed up in an 1860 census at the age 5-7 living with a family with a completely different surname than Barker in Camden, New Jersey.

The family story goes that he was so young when he became indentured that he did not remember his own last name and took the name of his master. However, the name of the family with he lived in Camden, NJ was not Barker. It has been handed down that Abijah Barker may have come from Ireland, but I can find no records one way or the other about it. I cannot find anything about him or his lineage earlier than 1860.

So, knowing that I am in the R1b1b2a1a2f2 haplogroup tends to make me think that my Great Grandfather Abijah Barker really did come from Ireland.

Now, if there were only some way to figure out if Barker was his real last name....

Hello, Frank, I have a similar heritage My paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f – however, my great great grandfather hailed from a small seaport near Thessaloniki, Greece (Macedonia coastal area on the Aegean sea, Thessalonica, the second-largest city in Greece and the capital of the geographic region of Greek Macedonia).Orville Boyd Jenkins, EdD, PhD.’s research indicates: “It appears the Macedonians were a mixed people too, and various commentators mention their blondness and light colored eyes even for Alexander the Great. Some references indicate red hair also… It is likely they did carry a stream of Celtic genes and culture. Another ancient writer comments that the Thracians were blue-eyed and blond. Thrace is the area east of Macedonia, what is now the European part of Turkey across the Bosporus Strait from Istanbul, and was incorporated into the early Macedonian Empire. The Macedonians, an already-mixed northern group of Hellenic speakers who first united all the Hellenes in the Macedonian Empire, were dominantly blond.” “It is my reading of the historical indicators, however, that most of the current "blondism" in that region is attributable to the concentrated Norman (and perhaps Frankish along with other northern European Germanic peoples) infusion in the Middle Ages. These spread south and east during the era of the Crusades and the resulting Norman/Frankish kingdoms established in the Mediterranean and Middle East. The Normans were the last and most extensive Germanic group extending from their northern Viking habitat to the whole of Europe and much of Asia. Every royal family of Europe (excepting perhaps Turkey) has Norman heritage and genes. This is no secret. Hundreds and thousands of books have been written documenting this phenomenon and spinning out the stories and legends of the Normans. Normans and related lineages ruled Cyprus and much of western Asia for some centuries in the Middle Ages.” My mother’s genealogy on the other hand is very English, Scottish and French -- she is the 39 great granddaughter of John of Brienne – born in Champagne, France - but as I studied his history, John of Brienne went on the Crusades and became King of Jerusalem and Emperor of Constantinople in the 1200 BC -- who knows how many offspring these crusaders fathered as they sailed and conquered the lands on their way to Istanbul. My father had blue eyes and dark blond hair. -- his family's name was Avram -- son of Avram - surnames were not yet established in Greece -- so my grandfather was the son of his father's first name - Avramoff. - so I guess I am not totally surprised by the genealogy results, as my mother was attracted to his blue eyes. I am not totally flabbergasted that he is of this Irish, English, French descent -- R1b1b2a1a2f. I always wondered about my father's genealogy -- 23 and me has helped and I am so glad my brother was able to submit the test as he is the last of the male descendants. “You may not have my name but you have my blood ". So we enter the age that blood or actually DNA -- determines genealogical heritage -- it would be nice to have castles and land -- but I will take pride in my blue eyes, reddish blonde hair and freckles . My husband’s family originates from Caraloon, Magherafelt, Northern Ireland from 1750’s. So now I know why I have felt just as home as he did during our visits to Ireland and Northern Scotland :)

Hello. I took the test at 23andMe and I also had the paternal halogroup R1b1b2a1a2f. My last name is Davidson though and on this site. http://www.tqsi.com/davidsongenes2/results2.php?type=family there are no Davidsons the match. Could this mean I might not actually be a Davidson?

Hello all. I'm a R1b1b2a1a2f2. With all these Irish folks in this thread I can't believe I'm the first Kelly to post. I always knew we were from Ireland but still don't know where. Im in Tampa now, but my grandfather came from Philadelphia.

I'm R1b1b2a1a2f*. My paternal ancestors came from Machtlos, Germany in the province of Hesse. They arrived there in about 1700, and before that, they had been migrating around several small towns in the area (Blankenbach, Weißenhasel, etc.). My ancestor immigrated to America in 1881. Some of his Schmidt relatives also settled in Massachusetts and Washington DC in the mid 1800s. In Ancestry's Y-DNA database, all my related families who share a common ancestor with me before about 1100 AD are Irish/Scottish, and all the related families who share a common ancestor with me after about 1100 AD are a mixture of German/Italian/Lebanese. This leads me to believe my ancestors spent a long time in Scotland/Ireland, before one of them went to war (probably the Second Crusade?) which took him through continental Europe. He may have deserted and had children who spread out across Europe, or he may have had relations with several women along the way, leaving a string of biological sons throughout continental Europe who carried on his YDNA in Germany, Italy, Lebanon, etc.

I had my brother test initially with 23andme and he is R1b1b2a1a2f2, maternal J1c7. I had him test recently with ftDNA Y-37 and am waiting for those results. Our paternal surname is Dolan, and while family stories say we are Irish, I can trace our Dolan line to John Dolan b. about 1843 in Albany, New York...no other info. We have not matched any Dolan's at this point. Has anyone uploaded to GEDmatch?

My paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f* and contains the Irish surnames Traynor, McLaughlin, Doherty/Dougherty, McGonigle, O'Brien, Murphy, Ryan, and more. We know for a fact that the McLaughlins, Dohertys, and McGonigles came from County Donegal, in the extreme northwest of Ireland, so this makes perfect sense. The Traynors likely came from County Meath and the area around Dublin and the O'Briens possibly came from Co. Limerick or near Kilkenny.

My brother just got his results and this is our group as well. our surname is Herring and we're from Fort Smith, Arkansas. I am the family Historian, so to speak. Our Herring branch ends with our 2nd great grandfather. The only records I've been able to find with him are the 1850 and 1860 census in Fort Smith. One says he was born in Alabama, the other states it was Georgia. Cannot go any farther back than that.

My da's family settled in Arkansas, no redheads, tho, used to joke we were selkies.

It might be helpful, might not and kind of taboo to some people, but they were travellers, quit the life, roots extending to Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island (and Ireland, obv, but nothing so formal that we can say when and where).. in the states, found some cousins split between north carolina, south carolina and virginia with a couple testing sites, but nothing to fill in the blanks beyond what we knew.

Also, found a few angry people that don't much care for the named association... even if they were only listed as 4th cousins or beyond. ;p

My paternal haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a2f*, and the surname associated with it is Putman, which is English. However, it seems the Irishness/Scottishness of the haplogroup predates the assigning of surnames in Britain (for tax purposes, following the Norman conquest). Not surprising, as people have been moving around and mixing forever. My [American] family identifies as Irish anyway, despite the English surname.

Joseph Sullivan. My paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f* from 23andme. My great great great grandfather (O'Sullivan) was from Inchinteskin, Cork, Ireland. I see many posts here from Portugal, Spain, Germany, and UK for the same haplogroup. Celtic tribes existed in all those in around 300 BCE. Celtiberian lived in the Basque area of Spain. Some allied with Carthage in the Punic wars against Rome. The Celts were often mercenary soldiers for other states as were the Irish many centuries later for the King of Spain. Irish troops formed a regiment in the Spanish Army of Flanders during the 80 years war in 1580. They were commonly known by the term "Wild Geese". Irish soldiers served in continental armies in the 16th through 18th centuries, so its possible that some of the R1b1b2a1a2f* folks are descended from Irish mercenaries who never went home, while others may be descendents of Celtic tribes in those regions of Europe. For example on my euro genes analysis on GEDMatch.com, shows the Iberian peninsula (modern Spain/Portugal) as a location where ancestors lived thousands of year ago, probably Celts or even earlier.

Alexander Nelson. According to 23 and me my paternal line is R1b1b2a1a2f*. I can only track my paternal ancestry back to a Thomas William Nelson born 27 Jan 1862 in Kentucky, who died in Ripley, Missouri, and who was the son of a certain Sarah Ann.

Given the rumored sexual proclivities of the Irish King, Niall of the Nine Hostages, one should expect there are many bastard children or descendants of bastards who share this haplogroup, it may even be a defining trait with many generations of bastards who don't necessarily carry on their father's surnames. I know I'm one such wild oat of a man named Coughlin (or at least, rumored to be, without a DNA match how can I be sure?).