people long dead? the founders of israel you mean? the ones ive quoted stating that they stole arab lands, that they would follow a policy of ethnic cleansing? the ones whos own statements from the time flatly contradict what your saying? I know you dont deal in facts too well and dont see history post biblical times as relevant but come on Liara. weak argument really.

for real irony check out The Balfour Declaration to Baron Rothchild, 2nd of November, 1917

"His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

The British foreign affairs minister has said that If Israel invades Gaza then it will lose its international support.

This is a good thing IMO, as the international community has supported apartheid Israel for far too long.

Maybe sanctions should be put in place, like in South Africa in the apartheid era, I guess banning Israel from international sporting events would be a waste of time though, seeing as Israel is awful at pretty much every sport.

This is such a hard topic for me, because if Mexicans were lobbing rockets over the border into San Antonio, and the Mexicans weren't able or willing to stop them, you better believe I'd support the US military going in there to take out the people firing the rockets. On the other hand, I have family that has family living in Gaza currently under the constant buzzing of the drones and dealing with bombings all around them. I understand that Israel needed to occupy territory and build checkpoints in response to suicide bombings, but at the same time, I think the land grabbing of Israel has been horrible.

It's such a messy conflict and there are no clean cut good guys and bad guys. All I know is that relatively innocent people on both sides are dying, but that far more Gazans are dying than Israelis.

I have been reading this thread for a while (well, trying to).
I am Israeli.
I live 10 km away from your remote family members.
There was a lot of hatred on this thread, a lot of unbased opinion and some things that really bothered me (like Holocaust refrences, my family died there), and I always wanted to comment but said, meh- to sign on for that? If the guy actually thinks that, nothing you can say can change his mind and I'll just come out frustrated, and that is not healthy.
Your post really touched me, it was honest and true.
I wish your family well, I hate to see civilians caught in the crossfire, and I truly hope for peace, for everyone's sake.

I have been reading this thread for a while (well, trying to).
I am Israeli.
I live 10 km away from your remote family members.
There was a lot of hatred on this thread, a lot of unbased opinion and some things that really bothered me (like Holocaust refrences, my family died there), and I always wanted to comment but said, meh- to sign on for that? If the guy actually thinks that, nothing you can say can change his mind and I'll just come out frustrated, and that is not healthy.
Your post really touched me, it was honest and true.
I wish your family well, I hate to see civilians caught in the crossfire, and I truly hope for peace, for everyone's sake.

So, thank you, I guess.
This, for a change, was worth commenting to.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

people long dead? the founders of israel you mean? the ones ive quoted stating that they stole arab lands, that they would follow a policy of ethnic cleansing? the ones whos own statements from the time flatly contradict what your saying? I know you dont deal in facts too well and dont see history post biblical times as relevant but come on Liara. weak argument really.

for real irony check out The Balfour Declaration to Baron Rothchild, 2nd of November, 1917

Times change. Shocking, I know.
And you've yet to put a single quote into real context.

Then again, I know how much people love to blindly attack Israel, without actually regarding facts (like how you completely disregarded the massive amount of aid that Israel gives to Gaza, despite being at a fucking war with the rulers of it).

Times change. Shocking, I know.
And you've yet to put a single quote into real context.

Then again, I know how much people love to blindly attack Israel, without actually regarding facts (like how you completely disregarded the massive amount of aid that Israel gives to Gaza, despite being at a fucking war with the rulers of it).

I didn't know that setting up a naval blockade to prevent other countries from giving relief is considered "aid" in Israel..

Golda Meir, Israel's PM during the Yom Kippur War (another war of aggression by neighboring countries), once said:
Guess they still believe that sacrificing their children is a good idea.

Guys you should stop quoting public figures all together.
One can find a vast amount of horrible quotes on both sides of the aisle.
Golda Meir for example has some very wonderful quotes. yet at same time she also said very nasty evil things....
And I am sure, that can be said for people on either side

Times change. Shocking, I know.
And you've yet to put a single quote into real context.

Then again, I know how much people love to blindly attack Israel, without actually regarding facts (like how you completely disregarded the massive amount of aid that Israel gives to Gaza, despite being at a fucking war with the rulers of it).

Exactly. It's amazing how much of reality people who attack Israel ignore, instead siding with propaganda and terrorists.

---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 05:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by The North Remembers

I didn't know that setting up a naval blockade to prevent other countries from giving relief is considered "aid" in Israel..

Once again, ignoring facts in favor of propaganda. There is no "blockade". Israel simply wants to ensure that weapons don't come into the area, and merely want to inspect incoming ships, the same as any other country is allowed to do. Those same "aid" ships, refuse to be inspected, so they can get cheap media time for their "cause".

The less you know, the more you believe.

Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

Exactly. It's amazing how much of reality people who attack Israel ignore, instead siding with propaganda and terrorists.

In this thread I don't see that happen just because of ignorance..
Take away the two extremes of people who live in the zone and won't move but a tad from their side of the picture, it will leave all others..
And I am under the impression that everyone is not siding with propaganda, let alone terrorists. We are rather siding with the people. The civilians on both sides who suffer from the situation. And it is absolutely justified to therefore criticize both governments. No side is spared here in that regard.
Both sides are at fault. Both sides are responsible for the population to suffer.

The British foreign affairs minister has said that If Israel invades Gaza then it will lose its international support.

This is a good thing IMO, as the international community has supported apartheid Israel for far too long.

Maybe sanctions should be put in place, like in South Africa in the apartheid era, I guess banning Israel from international sporting events would be a waste of time though, seeing as Israel is awful at pretty much every sport.

As long as Israel has the US support, everyone else can drop support and it won't make a difference to them.

I didn't know that setting up a naval blockade to prevent other countries from giving relief is considered "aid" in Israel..

A blockade to ensure that smuggling of armaments into Gaza won't happen. A blockade that was deemed legal by international law.

And again, instead of addressing the aid Israel itself is giving, you choose to try and attack something else entirely.

---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 07:20 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Wildtree

Guys you should stop quoting public figures all together.
One can find a vast amount of horrible quotes on both sides of the aisle.
Golda Meir for example has some very wonderful quotes. yet at same time she also said very nasty evil things....
And I am sure, that can be said for people on either side

I agree, that's why I keep telling soulcrusher that his little quotes are pointless; I was simply playing his little game to show him how pointless it is.

A blockade to ensure that smuggling of armaments into Gaza won't happen. A blockade that was deemed legal by international law.

And again, instead of addressing the aid Israel itself is giving, you choose to try and attack something else entirely.

---------- Post added 2012-11-19 at 07:20 PM ----------

I agree, that's why I keep telling soulcrusher that his little quotes are pointless; I was simply playing his little game to show him how pointless it is.

You know by now I question everything rather twice. But even I thought that the blockade is justified to prevent weapon smuggling.
And I don't think Israel wouldn't let UN shipments, or Red Cross reach the Gaza shores.

You know by now I question everything rather twice. But even I thought that the blockade is justified to prevent weapon smuggling.
And I don't think Israel wouldn't let UN shipments, or Red Cross reach the Gaza shores.

As long as they subject themselves to proper inspections (much like any ship), I have no doubt that we would allow them passage. Or at the very least, transfer the goods ourselves.

This is such a hard topic for me, because if Mexicans were lobbing rockets over the border into San Antonio, and the Mexicans weren't able or willing to stop them, you better believe I'd support the US military going in there to take out the people firing the rockets. On the other hand, I have family that has family living in Gaza currently under the constant buzzing of the drones and dealing with bombings all around them. I understand that Israel needed to occupy territory and build checkpoints in response to suicide bombings, but at the same time, I think the land grabbing of Israel has been horrible.

It's such a messy conflict and there are no clean cut good guys and bad guys. All I know is that relatively innocent people on both sides are dying, but that far more Gazans are dying than Israelis.

outstanding post imo. i dont have any family over there to feel for them, i dont really think anybody should have to in order to feel empathy for them. but the world constantly disappoints. a really ugly example of how the few can royally fuck over the many (talking both sides here, imo neither can claim the high road with a straight face at this point)

Gogo Israel! Glad to see a country willing to fight! Hopefully this will lead to some kind of war against Islam. In the end, perhaps we will get rid of such stupid things as religion.

Oh great....
Congrats on the stupidest posting so far in 52 pages..
War against Islam..... unbelievable.. you want to start a religious war, which would likely be another world war, to end religion? How idiotic can it be?
Educate yourself about the sheer number balance.... Islam etc/Christianity