Definitely we should fight it: BrexitJustice, set up by Marcus J.Ball, has now raised over £100,000 to pay lawyers to prosecute Leave campaign’s liars-in-chief.
Find BrexitJustuce on Facebook, or on Crowdfunding site to make a donation — the “stretch” goal is now £250,000.

NO Gabriel! Marcus Ball has halted his crowd fund. There is no stretch goal beyond the original £100k. There are no visible signs of progress with legal action since 2016 and one should assume there is no money left to pay lawyers.
You may be thinking of the Article 50 validity challenge, which has a stretch target of £250k. May actually stop Brexit. https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/a50-chall-her-e50/

I am an 84 grandmother. I worked from 18 to60. . My husband now almost 90 worked from 14 to64 All those yrs we paid our taxes just like all the rest of our ordinary people. The so called upper classes have cheated the tax system from day 1. Both of us grew up on the stories told by our grandparents and parents of the utter poverty they endured in between the 2 wars. This last lot of Tories have reduced this country to even more poverty for millions of people and they boast about what they have achieved. Us leaving the EU is purely so that the mega mega rich will not have to pay tax on their profits and Investments which they will have to if we stay in the EU. WHY we are allowing ourselves to be pushed over a cliff by these self serving blood sucking bastards is beyond me

Why doesn’t anybody care the anti EU politicians are the biggest liars and hypocrites? Boris Johnson whose family changed their name from the Turkish asylum seeker relative name to sound more British, is either a liar or an idiot. On the same TV show everybody made a fuss because he said Germany never used chemical weapons in wars in his bid to arm extremists in Syria to overthrow Assad, like how Margaret Thatcher’s government were supporting Al Qaeda to overthrow Gaddafi, he said an even bigger lie that nobody seems to have noticed, because he said there wasn’t a vote on the 2nd war against Iraq, when more Tories voted yes to it than other Parties. He either doesn’t know what the party he belongs to does, or it’s an experiment to see if all most people really remember about politics is last Tory propaganda headline they read.
Even the capitalist ex banker Nigel Farage claimed it was about immigration,while he employs his foreign wife on tax payers expenses. At least one media outlet could have pointed out their lies and hypocrisy, or am I the only person in the country with a memory?
It’s because they feel the EU is preventing the few at he top mistreating British people. They don’t want the EU to make them label GM ingredients or allow workers enough breaks. Wonder who will be first person crying on Question Time because they believed them? Nigel Lawson who caused the late 80s recession due to nothing other than Tory mismanagement of economy is speaking in favour of Brexit. Despite Tories making millions unemployed, lying ship building would go over to third world countries when it’s now in rich countries such as Japan and Scandinavia, adding much tax to make anybody suffer who’s just happy to get by without being slave for few at the top, such as constant VAT increases, making 18 year old in bedsit pay same Poll Tax as Lord in a manor, forcing NHS dentists to go private, first government to add tax to household bills after they stole and sold off public owned energy to foreign companies, while giving the rich tax cuts. It all crashed by late 80s, giving them excuse to not put money into what services were left, making them worst in Europe.
From Guardian Newspaper article before Conservatives won election: ‘When the education secretary, Michael Gove, was interviewed by Education Guardian readers before the general election, he flatly denied that the education maintenance allowance (EMA) was for the chop, saying: “Ed Balls keeps saying that we are committed to scrapping the EMA. I have never said this. We won’t.” So it was a surprise to many to hear, in last week’s spending review, that the EMA was to be among the casualties….

Are you talking EU army or European Army? It has been made quite clear that the no EU Army can be assembled without the agreement of all of the members of the EU. But here is the rub, the UK is going to leave the EU, so after our departure there will be nothing to stop an EU Army if all the remaining 27 Members all agree. But an additional point, the UK and France already have a Combined Joint Expeditionary Force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Joint_Expeditionary_Force

If the first 6 lies are borne out by legal opinions, then why even look at the remainder! The LEAVE case was criminal distortion and those responsible should be prosecuted (Boris has done a bunk smartly)!

The Crowdfunded BrexitJustice campaign (see Facebook) has now raised over £100,000 in two days to pay lawyers to prosecute Leave campaign’s chief liars. Funding goal is now £250,00 — could be a costly case even with lawyers (lined up) working pro bono or at reduced fees.

Simon Fredrick is the classic pro-Brexit voter. To stupid to click a link and do his own research before complaining about those that are clearly more intelligent than him. This is the type of person that got us in this mess !!

Anyone who isn’t a hermit knows that most of those are bare faced lies, and could have checked on any they were not sure of. People produced a list of lies on both sides, and most people it seems ignored the facts and voted anyway because after all we can believe the politicians can’t we?. I can’t understand how so many people waited for the in-out campaigner to spout their mantras before deciding. We have been in the eU for 40 years, surely that was time enough to know how it all works?

They are not only well evidenced lies, the bulk are admitted by Vote Leave to have been invented to dupe the +_ 20% of our voters who cannot pass a basic literacy test or can do so byonly a very small margin. They accept such information because they are incapable of evaluating what they are told.

…and, of course, the Remainers told no lies whatsoever. Personally, I decided both sides probably stretched the truth – that’s what politicians do for heaven’s sake when votes are at stake . More fool you for not realising that.

If (and it is an if) Remain did also lie, the whole point here is that a result based on lies, which this one certainly was, is not fit for purpose. That fact will not change just because somebody else also lied. If anything, it will only make the whole thing even more fraudulent. It is true that when bringing the culprits to justice, the same rules must apply to both sides, but in terms of validating the result, it wouldn’t make a scrap of difference.

Actually the idea that the vote must be implemented is also based upon lies. As Richard Bird has pointed out, we have been the victim of a monumental bait and switch:

“The fact that the status was advisory had two crucially important implications:

Firstly: There was no debate about the setting of a majority or supermajority vote threshold, whether 50%, 60% or even 66%, which would have been an essential legal requirement to include in the legislation for a binding vote.

Being advisory, there was no need to even discuss this issue. It was not a vote, it was a consultation. Nowhere, neither before or afterwards, has Parliament determined 50% as a threshold. That is a fiction created since by the Cameron government.

Secondly: The actual choice offered of “Leave the EU” was astoundingly simplistic.

“Remain” needed little amplification. It was the status quo. “Leave the EU” can have very many different meanings, as has become clear since June 2016.

Clearly, Parliament made no attempt to clarify the intent or meaning because there was no need to. The referendum was advisory. It was not a vote, it was a consultation of public opinion. The result was to be considered, but Parliament would still have the right and the duty to consider the national interest and take such decision as it thought fit.”

The referendum was so deeply flawed that it would be totally irresponsible to base the future of our children, our country & the EU on such a package of lies & misinformation.
We MUST go for a properly monitored re-run…it’s our only hope.

Yet with all these lies most of Yorkshire voted to exit. I weep as I see my family split half Italian half English , my country splitting. The economy going crazy the Toty right talking more control and Labor in total disarray…..you couldn’t make this stuff up!!!!

Remember Mark Twain’s homily ‘those who dont read newspapers are ill informed – those who do are mis-informed’. Honesty and integrity are scarcer in post truth societies than they were in pre-post truth ages. Of course politicians have always been economical with the truth. historically the fourth estate held them to account. The new media moguls and the multiple channels play into the hands of the media savvy like Farage, Gove and Boris- just repeat the lie often enough and it will be taken seriously NOT literally. Hence Farago’s trotting accross the pond now to be near the Trumpmeister. I thought he, Farage, was claiming poverty not so long ago. Where is he geeting the funds to do it?

It should never have been a referendum, way too complex an issue for just about everyone.
Opinions should have been sought.
The debate was a disgrace, I’ve never seen politicians lie so disgracefully and repeatedly. You expect that kind of thing from Farage, but prospective party leaders too?

Derek, please stop for a second and read back what you just said. I have seen politicians lie disgracefully all my life, and just very rarely they lie gracefully, but we do know they will lie, it is expected. I am baffled by the number of people who believed those lies, because a little bit of digging out the facts, or even a smidgen of general knowledge would tell you they were lying.. Maybe it is easier to go along with what you want to hear than to seek the truth?

I agree totally Derek, but opinions were sought, I understand that the referendum was technically ‘advisory’ – an opportunity to let our politicians hear our opinions. We pay them to lead us and they didn’t put the work in. If they were planning on leaving it ‘to the count’ why, for example, did they not set a minimum percentage for such a huge decision? Was it because they didn’t anticipate and therefore plan for the outcome? Arrogant and out of touch!

Does the UK not have a referendum commission? How can a referendum where blatant lies were told about the issues be even considered legal? I cannot understand how this referendum is even being considered as a reason for Brexit.

We do not have a written constitution. Repeated statements that Turkey “is set to join EU” or will join soon, with previous Farage poster of Syrian refugees were totally disgraceful . This was deliberately stirring hatred and fear.

What makes me furious is that instead of attacking the Tories for their complete mishandling of this situation, Labour MPs have taken the opportunity to attack their own leader. FOR GOODNESS SAKE, THIS IS WHEN WE NEED AN EFFECTIVE OPPOSITION. STOP FIGHTING AND DO THE JOB YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO.

When you give someone a vote it doesn’t guarantee that they have the intetlect to exercise it wisely. ……an issue this important should have been left to MPS & MEP’S they should have been given time to consult with people and industry in their constituencies and then be give a “free” vote ……we pay them enough ! !

Ultimately all Leave campaigners have gone very quite now they real air they have been lied to and all the warnings are going true. The pound is at its lowest level in over 30 years and stock markets have slumped. We need to stop this charade and accept that the EU is the best place for us to stay as now that a few weeks have passed this has become evident. Also why would all the politicians who lead us this victory quit now when we are about to enter our Golden age. Because they realise they’ve cocked up!

The happy democratic voter who won’t give a name to respond to. Dear happy democratic voter, whatever it is you voted for, you won’t get it because the promises made by the various self-serving turn-tails who ran the Leave campaign have no validity and contradict each other. You’ve headed our country to the corrupt elite with a red ribbon around it. Don’t alienate everyone in your self-satisfied strutting frenzy. You’ll need someone to turn to when the penny drops about what you’ve done to yourself, your family and your country.

Leaving is not an option any more than leaving the world – or sheer reality for that matter. The EU exists and must be traded with which means accepting their terms, which means membership essentially. The ref should not have been held because implementing leaving is not viable. Corruption? The most corrupt place on earth is said to be the financial City of London.

‘Sucking up’ is not a meaningful possibility in this situation because we just can’t Leave …. no can do, even if we were mad enough to want or try to.

if the referendum is retaken that ends democoercy every time people dont agree with the result they will want it rerun do you think the remains told the truth, it was all fear has any of the things they forcast happened NO this country will be finished if this is over turned it will never be a free country -and I for one will want nothing to do with it. if the vote was to stay in I would have been behind it even though I voted to leave

If a referendum is properly executed and correct information us given to all voters on the issues involved then it would be unfair to ask for it to be repeated. This referendum was based on lies given out as if they were facts thus making the result deeply flawed, consequently it is reasonable to ask for it to be repeated with the correct information.

And this list is not a lie by itself?
Ofc there are concequences from such decisions, good and bad.
But should u really stay, because its good for some bankers and bureaucrats?

While i was listening reasoning of especially young brits. They voted yes, because they have been told that othervise they cannot travel out from the country.

When there were EU vote in Finland, many voted yes because they were told, that food an beer will become cheaper.
Did it happen?
No. After 1995 prices of foodproducts have skyrocketed 41%.
-There are always lies in both sides.

4 million want a new referendum ? Against 17 million who don’t. Some warped kind of democracy there.
Someone puts up a list of supposed lies and we are all supposed to say “dearie me, are they lies ? We’d better turn the other way then.”
Britain went to the polls. The result was that Britain is leaving the EU. If the remainers diverted their energies to working alongside the Leavers for the best vote result we could get our act sorted a lot quicker.

it can hardly be called democratic when millions of Brits who work and live outside the UK ( many for uk companies ) were denied a vote at all. A small minority voted in favour of leaving the EU but NOT the Majority of the country. many people (foolishly in my opinion) didnt bother to vote and millions were swayed by lies that have since been proven to be lies. You cannot base a referendum on lies whatever side spreads them. It needs to be revisited as many of us expats have been denied a say in the future of our country and many have been misled. You don’t stop being British because you are working abroad, that’s not democracy. Parliament must hold a free vote.

For many years a number of MPs have been looking after themselves and toeing the party. line rather than listening to their electorate. As a result, we have had a whole raft of legislation of questionable value foisted on us by governments of both flavours. The country is in a parlous state with a serious disconnect between ministerial pronouncements and reality for most ‘hard working’ families. In six years Tory government has dismantled the NHS, forced a million to rely on foodbanks, driven a person a day to suicide through welfare sanctions, ignored those paid below the minimum wage or on zero hours contracts whilst encouraging immigrants to do the jobs we don’t take because we’re stuck on low pay when the financial sector is literally coining themselves higher incomes.
And then what? Through spin, lies and innuendo, Brexiteers set up the EU as an aunt sally to be blamed for all the misery felt by those who ‘want their country back’ when the real cause is Tory government. Of course the EU has serious failings, but these are seen by at least a quarter of the members: how much better it would have been to remain a member and join with them to correct the obvious faults and leave us with all the advantages we have accumulated over 40 years instead of throwing our toys out of the pram. Our problem was not the EU , but a significant number of MPs wedded to their Party machine and not bothering to think. With heavy press support for Bullingdon style buffoonery, it’s not surprising we narrowly voted to create the bizarre situation in which we find ourselves.
Put the blame squarely where it belongs,

I absolutely agree with you Jim Kent, The Tory government have caused these problems with all these cuts to hospitals, schools, libraries, etc. etc. then the right wingers did as Hitler did and put the blame for the consequences on immigrants. Foolish people believed the lies, as the German people did when they blamed Jews for everything. What next? Concentration camps for foreigners?

I hope they all get brought to court, that in itself should void what was nothing but a corrupt referendum. Leave voters are getting very quiet they got nothing but lies to defend themselves with , i cannot believe they are so ignorant to not see this but then most didnt see past i thing, the only thing in thier eyes that warrented thier vote. Now the truth of it all is spitting in thier faces !!!

Referenda were completely discredited decades ago. They were so badly discredited that they had to change their name, just like Windscale had to be renamed Sellafield. They used to be called plebiscites, and were much used in the 1930s by the Fascists in Italy and the Nazis in Germany to give a false veneer of democracy to their totalitarian actions.

It is said that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. For a referendum, it is only necessary to fool more than 50% of the people for a very short time.

Referenda are essentially UNDEMOCRATIC. They are a tool used by dictatorships to justify essentially undemocratic actions.

This referendum is invalid, because the Leave campaign’s arguments were ALL lies. The people were deceived, and the result of the referendum must therefore be rejected. A distinguished lawyer has said to me that, if the referendum were a contract, it could be voided because of misrepresentation. Brexit must be stopped NOW.

Membership of the EU should never have been out to a referendum; Cameron gambled with our country’s future in an effort to settle Tory infighting. It is astonishing that the Leave side were able to peddle lies without redress – how is that different to rigging the ballot boxes? It seems anything went. I hope they can be held to account under the litigation. Some people also voted for results they mistakenly thought could flow from leaving the EU, such as more jobs for British people. The way to achieve that is not to tank our economy. It is clear the referendum has unveiled issues that need addressing in the interests of social justice, but that is a different matter to leaving the EU. I can see no good coming of it. Already the pound has nose dived, the uncertainty alone will cause business to delay investment decisions (I am personally suffering here as recruitment case to replace lost team member now looks to be on hold, just as a small scale example – if you want a bigger one look at Siemens deciding not to progress the wind turbine exports business from Hull, even though it is still supporting the existing business). UK scientists are missing out big time on collaborative projects. Perhaps after a lot of negotiation we may end up with some sort if fudged deal on the EU – but in the meantime Brexit will cause so much damage – and in the end we will still have to pay in but crucially won’t even have a say in on EU matters. in short the referendum has been nothing short of toxic. It has prompted hate crime, been generally divisive and nay see the end of the Union. Overnight Britain went from being a really great country finally recovering after the financial crisis which would have been good news for all to being on the road to becoming an insular, backward country that has lost its place on the global stage. A sad day. No, a heartbreaking day.

I agree that the Leave campaign was a pack of lies and demagoguery, culminated by Boris Johnson’s spine chilling “Independence Day” rally on the election eve, which probably tipped the balance.

Let us also remember the blatant propaganda by the gutter press and the oh too even-handed approach by the BBC. (Why is no one holding the gutter press to account? Tiny retractions on page 46 don’t cut the mustard.)

But the question is, how is that going to fix anything now? I can’t see how crowdfunding is going to pay for legal action against Leave leaders, except civil action. Criminal action is up to the DPP.

The lies and demagoguery of the campaign are matched by a lack of understanding of referenda on constitutional matters. You can’t have a first-past-the-post simple majority of one vote on an important constitutional change such as leaving the EU. A re-run isn’t going to solve it, and I think that the population is fed up with referenda.

This one was not really about the EU. It was about David Cameron trying to fix the split within the Tory party.

The government can’t even make sense of what Brexit involves. If they claim that “the will of the people” is against free movement of labour, but they want to be in the single market, then there is no squaring the circle. If they go for a Norway style solution (and let’s remember that Norway didn’t go through the expense and trauma of leaving and re-negotiating) then there will still be free movement of labour and Britain will be without influence – maybe acceptable for Norway, but not a “big player” like Britain.

I suspect that there is a neo-con element that would like Britain to just rest with WTO and any further deals it can muster, and free itself from the burden of climate change commitments, etc. This would be a total abrogation of our lifestyle and values.

Why MPs did not take charge of this hornet’s nest in a non- partisan way from the beginning, I do not know. The MEP Richard Corbett is a notable exception here, and you have my admiration, and the likes of David Lammy, who has been slammed for making perfectly valid and important points. And special mention to the wonderfully straight-talking Tam Daylell.

The country has no appetite for a general election. The Tories would win and take it as a mandate for Brexit – not because would be, but because they are the only party who have got their act together. Corbyn’s call for one was ill-conceived to say the least.

Just my view, but I don’t think that either side in the Labour Party tussle is capable of winning an election. I think there would have to be ONE party, like the American Democrats – progressive but more centrist than Labour is. Tony Blair is despised with reason, but that has to do with Iraq mostly, and also Tony’s cronies and his love of the uber-wealthy. Labour has thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

If anything is going to get us out of this Brexit mess now, it is legal challenges and more MPs waking up and speaking out for country and conscience – and that would include pro-Remain Tories.

I was under the impression that the referendum was advisory only.
That the result was confirmed by Cameron as a motion to leave the EU,it should have been put to parliament to decide the outcome not the decision of one man

Lots of little lies, but one big one, a lie so huge it was right in front of us and many of us didn’t see it: That it is remotely credible to resolve a far reaching and complex question like our membership of the EU with a simple question,

One option, remain in a organisation known to be flawed and led by people who are at best deluded, arrogant and detached.

The other option, to leave without it being clear (to ludicrously over simplify) whether we were choosing to embrace extreme globalisation or a diluted EU membership.

Neither choice was a satisfactory or responsible.

At some point one or more actual decisions, options with details attached, will be available. At that point I’d like to decide based on those facts. That is what should have been offered in the first place.

Separately, the idea that democracy is an event is incorrect. Equally a simple re run because I don’t like the result is also not valid.

However, when a proper choice based on actual intent, defining what leave means is available then we should make a decision based on that new information.

Democracy iterates, we alter our views, when significant new information, eg what this actually means, and the options are varied and contradictory (eg with or with out free movement among many others), that is new.

Whatever gets out on the table will cause Remainers to be happy to leave and Leavers to wish to remain.

Correct me/my spelling if/where I’m wrong, but the Greek ‘Demos’ (as in ‘Demos Krata’) referred not to everyone, but those who could be described as ‘elite’, probably because they could read and write)…?

Article 50 should not be triggered without a Parliamentary vote. It is uncertain what deal can be negotiated in 2 years but it is certain that we will lose UKs EU rebate. Will still have to pay for access to the single market but without any rebate.

Far be it from me to spoil a good rant by introducing facts into the argument, but we have already had a second referendum. That was in July 2016.
We had a referendum prior to this, when 67% of the people voted to stay in Europe, and then despite the wishes of the people and despite the democratic process, we had 41 years of Brexiters whining, whingeing and moaning.
You couldn’t possibly invent the hypocrisy that Mark is displaying in his post.
He should be ashamed of himself.

Like many Leave voters who were taken in by these lies, I now feel cheated and totally resent the way that Brexit is now being managed. I thought I was saving the NHS and would still be part of a single market – how stupid was I.

Just as well the British public aren’t fools, and they knew that both sides were lying to them. So instead of listening to what the politicians had to say, they went with their gut feel. That is why so many can’t say precisely why they voted the way they did, they didn’t vote for any particular reason, they’d synthesised their experiences over the last few years and voted on the basis of that synthesis.

In a scenario which demands major constitutional changes in the political future of our country any referendum should have a super majority to enact these changes such as 65%/35%. A 4% majority does not give a mandate because another referendum could go the other way.
The Brexiteers say that people should accept such a slim majority as evidence of the will of the people. Of they are so concerned about the will of the people they should be happy for any number of referendums not just grabbing on to the tiniest lead and holding on for dear life. If their arguments are valid then their position should be stronger now and another referendum will only solidify their argument that the British people don’t want to be in the European Union.

I can only say the negative faction won and it remains for people to work out how to make the best of it and prevent it from getting much much worse. Brexit currently has no definition and every effort must be made to make that definition the best it can be and not the worst and thereby limit the damage.
Clearly it’s terrible to jump off a bridge with no idea of what’s below but the UK has jumped. It’s a travesty but it has happened. No one is going to beat the Tories in any election soon and as long as they back Brexit (which they will) they will remain untouchable and in power because of their normal base plus the addition of those who want Brexit who are not their normal base support. So from a political power perspective they are not going to throw away the control they now have and they will not back down so it will happen. So, all effort must go to making it something they can say they did but does not ruin us. Clearly throwing away a market opportunity the size of the EU is bad business along with lots of other benefits. So work to retain as much as we can which means satisfying the spoilt muppets in the Tory Party enough that they can rabidly wave the Union Jack in glee but sanity prevails as much as possible.
No one in the opposition can muster a broad enough base in the electorates that decide who wins an election. It’s a lock-in. Much as I think Brexit is a terrible decision it can get much worse if the style and detail if Brexit is not managed well. That is where all the effort needs to go – to make the best of a bad lot and not allow the rabid fruitcakes to decide what Brexit means. Put the solutions up – lobby for those – don’t lobby for another vote – it’s not going to happen. Lobby for where you can make a difference. Lobby for what you believe is important to be kept – Push for the important things – don’t lobby for the impossible dream of another vote.

Anti EU politicians seem to like trying to appeal to EDL types who don’t remember what has really happened. Like how anti EU people think staying in the EU will create more Islamic extremism, because they don’t realise Europe isn’t in the middle east, but forget what has really happened. Such as how when Thatcher made rest of Europe hate us before because EU was preventing few at the top mistreating most British people, with saying companies should label GM ingredients and workers should have enough breaks, the whistle blower David Shayler told how they were funding Al Qaeda against Gaddafi, so the once liberal and popular tourist spot Tunisia next to Libya is now a no go zone for tourists. Or how they think Tories will suddenly start caring about British people if we leave the EU, but Tories made millions unemployed destroying whole communities, and then the only people who suffer from their policies are those who don’t want to be a slave for the few at the top and the low paid, such as constant VAT increases, making an 18 year old in bedsit pay same poll tax as Lord in a manor, and now the bedroom tax without building smaller places for them to move, while they give the rich tax cuts. Then when Labour reformed House of Lords, Tories tried to vote against it as wanted the upper classes to be paid for doing nothing with expenses. Even when Boris Johnson went on TV and said a stupid thing about how Germany never used chemical weapons in wars in his bid to arm extremists in Syria against Assad, the media made a fuss, but the media didn’t say anything when he said on the same show that there wasn’t a vote on the 2nd war against Iraq, but we wouldn’t have gone to war 2nd time if more Tories hadn’t voted yes to it than other parties. He’s either a liar or stupid, and people think he can lead us out the EU

What is particularly drole is that many of those lies can come true if we leave the EU because we then lose any power to stop the EU doing anything. For example — if we leave there would be nothing we could do to prevent an EU army, or stop Turkey joining , Look down the list and go figure.