The Remote Viewing Hoax/conspiracy

As early as the 30s-40s tests were done regarding ESP, amongst them Dr. J. B. Rhine, who had subjects attempting to pick out symbols on cards, and of
course certain subjects had high accuracy rates, including picking out cards that would be laid out one year into the future, and from one end of the
globe to the other. Now these kinds of tests are old school.
I am pretty sure that many more sophisticated and advanced tests have been performed. RV is has been studied and used by various national security
agencies for quite some time. The currently accepted views on it is that time and space do not play a role. You can remote view outside of the
galaxy and in different timelines. The current accepted views do not happen by chance but by years of research.

Accuracy is made greater when larger groups participate, after training, and notes are compared.

Well Dames certainly did his share to discredit RV, but it's origins were with Ingo Swan and Harold E. Puthoff and Russ Targ. Prapsychological
research which was corrupted by military application. In my opinion. Just my two cents worth.

Originally posted by mystiq
The currently accepted views on it is that time and space do not play a role. You can remote view outside of the galaxy and in different timelines.
The current accepted views do not happen by chance but by years of research.

no no no, this is the disinfo part of it and this is what is discrediting the entire community when people believe this since it cannot be proven or
disproved.

I read the book "Psi Spies" by Jim Marrs. It is interesting to read about what they are trying to see. When I had my OBE, I had little control over
it. Maybe a RV who goes into space may describe cities on Mars when (s)he might actually be on a planet across the galaxy.
I look at it this way, while there may be kooks out there, the government would not of spent hundreds of millions of dollars and years on the subject
if they thought it did not exist.

I even starred this one post just because you didn't ignore me. (thank you so very much!) .......I guess at least I'm an honest quack? I am not an
intentional hoaxer or disinformationist. Maybe it's part of my programing? (idk)

Even deluded people seems to be part of someones program. Afterall, this is a conspiracy site. I guess I'm not as good at denying ignorance like the
best ones here do. Ignorance........arogance? I get these confused.

So,...I'm assuming that you also know Russell Targ, Paul Smith and Joe Mc Moneagle? Ask them if I'm a quack. I heard Joe M. doesn't like
negativity. (my bad)

Remote viewing obviously shouldn't be misunderstood. Blind or double blind studies may be perceived as some amount of proof, but, not
from my suspicions of deception.

Interesting that I had actually thought there was an interview with Ingo Swann here on ATS MIX. I searched for it and it doesn't exist. (anymore?)

Maybe it was posted from another site?

Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the
teachings of the Remote Viewing program?

It's a good thing to be able to share and vent your feelings and convictions anyway. So, good luck with that.

If you don't respond; I can only assume you added me to my very long list of ignores by other people.

Originally posted by aleon1018
Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the
teachings of the Remote Viewing program?

I'm surprised you didn't get the U2U.

nothing personal here, i think it is just a shame that remote viewing has been lumped in with the tin hat crowd and it is because of the wild claims
some misguided (or maybe disinfo agents) are making! and i think a couple of them here are p'oed that they have been found out.

Originally posted by aleon1018
Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the
teachings of the Remote Viewing program?

I'm surprised you didn't get the U2U.

nothing personal here, i think it is just a shame that remote viewing has been lumped in with the tin hat crowd and it is because of the wild claims
some misguided (or maybe disinfo agents) are making! and i think a couple of them here are p'oed that they have been found out.

and what U2U are you talking about?

aleon1018 pointed out what I was referring to here.

It wasn't so much that I was upset or offended by what you said, but you went so much farther into the extreme left-wing of calling anyone else but
your own opinion as a wacky nutjob, I felt there would be other people offended even further so as to not want to even to listen to you seriously in
your defense of remote viewing as real, with "disinformation agents" attacking it via false information, what you had to say sounded almost like you
were working for them.

Does this make sense?

Life is about a balance.

When you thrash out in reflecting your opinion upon anyone else, you reflect also the idiocy that you are in fact attacking that you want to shine the
light on.

I'm not upset with you, Fathom, as I understand your perspective well, but it's your own personal beliefs expressed through the words you chose to
lay out there, that made it hard to even want to listen to what you had to say. No hard feelings. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings as well.

Originally posted by aleon1018
Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the
teachings of the Remote Viewing program?

nothing personal here, i think it is just a shame that remote viewing has been lumped in with the tin hat crowd and it is because of the wild claims
some misguided (or maybe disinfo agents) are making! and i think a couple of them here are p'oed that they have been found out.

and what U2U are you talking about?

There seems to be little interest here on ATS with remote viewing as if it's been debunked already. The disinformationists like the military could be
behind the tin foil hat thinking, just to discredit enough for their own agenda. That is another conspiracy aspect. So, I think it's important to
consider the possible sources everywhere.

The U2U was written "as if" the site or someone else warned you to ignore me 'as if' sarcasm.

I have come to have even less faith in the internet being a credible source for questionable subjects whether it's UFO's, aliens or the like. People
want the best possible proof you could give them.

I think it's important to just point out that you want to set the limits on it's more present credibility and ignore the rest as possible wanabe's
and imagination. Did you even watch Suspect Zero?

I used to link to the PSI site for remote viewing awhile ago, but, am always suspicious of any business having a price on it without really knowing
them. Some seemed to think it was spam so I quit.

There appears to be some yahoo groups in remote viewing with Paul Smith. I had asked about tasking the Califorrnia drones as a target and Paul Smith
replied he hadn't bothered or whatever. Those postings could be military whether they are real or not. Paul Smith worked for the military. He did
have some remote viewing articles in UFO magazine.

Like I said, I think I was a drop out originally, but unfortunately don't have any proof. How and what do you feel should be enough proof of it's
success and credibility? Is that being a conservative or a realist?

Please share with us what you have tasked if you are able to from any of your history that led you to remote viewing and possible sessions; past
threads or links. (practical remote viewing etc.)

I'm glad you started this thread anyway and even flagged it because I feel there's some amount of truth in what you say. It's just the delivery
that was kinda rough.

I have trained in TRV (Technical Remote Viewing) and there was never OOBE's / Astral Traveling involved. I dont believe that they should be
'lumped' into the same category.

I agree that Ed Dames has done alot to discredit Remote Viewing in his effort to be the "Master" remote viewer. Too many bad 'predictions' and
some 'way out there' doom and gloom.

I also believe that you can view past and future events as well as the present. I have done a few sessions on future time periods and now that you
have me thinking about it, I will have go look up some of my sessions and see if there is anything of interest that came to pass.

At any rate, good thread. There are a number of RV trainers out there that have all come out of the early govt programs and they all train a little
differently. I haven't looked into training materials from other 'teachers' but that might be interesting to view. I think they all went their
own directions and altered the material as they saw fit.

As with any alternative topic... there will always be someone out there providing the masses with disinformation to make the rest of us look foolish.
But once you have experienced it yourself, no one can change your mind and it really doesnt matter if anyone else jumps on board or not. At least
that is how I feel on this particular topic.

I do practice remote viewing, I have read up on it quite a bit, and have had strange experiences due to that knowledge through sleep paralysis as well
as some other events I talk very sparingly on the Paranormal Forum about.

I will drop you a U2U tonight when I get home from work, and finish the post I need to do in the debate I am currently in on the Debate Forum.

so why cant anyone remote view where bil laden is at.. they can go all the way to the moon,venus, and mars... tell us of lakes.. cities.. highways..
vehicles,etc.etc.etc. Read John Lears stuff,, I about fell over laughing.. especially about venus and the moon.. and he is suppose to be an
intelligent man... anyhow im getting off the track.. If the government has all these remote viewers,, why cant they use them in the war.. and let us
know which ones are strapping a bomb to there ass,, and wanting to blow up our soldiers??? remote view just across town ,, and see if they can spot
the ones with the weapons that want to harm us..,,why cant they do that??? Why cant they remote view inside a house?? and see if the occupant is ready
to blow there ass away with a missile launcher?? why cant they rv the road ahead.. and see if there is gonna be an ambush?? etc.. etc..etc..etc..
wishful thinking.. thats why.. they can only do the big stuff.. sure.. uh huh.. yeah.. ok.. right..

First off, Im not so sure that the goverment has remote viewers anymore (no money left in the budget or maybe the chinese own them now or perhaps they
are all living in dubai

)

I believe there is a misconception about remote viewing... its not like getting a clear video stream of information that is obvious in its meaning.

I find that remote viewing is best done in groups so that common results can be identified and misc junk filtered out. Its information that comes
through all the senses, sights, smells, sounds, etc. and the results of a session has to be analyzed. It is by no means an exact science in my
experience, even with the most 'seasoned' remote viewers. Maybe one day it will be

But ofcourse this is based on my own experiences and i can
only speak to that.

I'll tell you why. because they only remote view things, places, times that cannot be proved or disproved...that is why. that is how they can let
their imaginations run wild and no one questions them and all their fellow remote viewers oooh and aaah, and they all try to out do eachother with
wilder claims than the last.

You seem to be contradicting yourself Fathom. My apologies if I am just not getting it. (wouldnt be the first time LOL)

Im not sure if you think RV is possible or if you think it is all a hoax. In your OP you stated you thought it was real if used for people / events
in our time line but there was disinformation being propogated to discredit RV .... but in your last post you stated that basically its all a sham
and "they" will only remote view things that cannot be verified and then ooh and ahh at each other, and I assume "they" are remote viewers...

Maybe I missunderstood what your OP was all about, the purpose of this thread. Having been involved in remote viewing, I would hate to think Im
being insulted without knowing it.

when i say "they" i am referring to the remote viewers that "astral travel" to mars and to the soul catcher on the moon...those guys...
not the real remote viewers that can go to another country and check in on what michael jackson is doing in Paris ...or whatever.

I would have to agree it would be difficult to verify a remote viewing session of mars etc lol. And I would venture to say that most remote viewers
dont enjoy that type of target since we prefer to get feedback from a session.

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