Many bodybuilders believe the key to growth is through exotic drug combinations. This is simply not true. With the exception of the last 8 or so weeks of contest prep, there is very little reason to use drugs like trenbolone, masteron, winstrol, anavar, halotestin, etc. If your goal is to gain as much size as possible it boils down to 3 simple components:

There is simply no need for elaborate combinations of 6 different anabolic steroids in varying doses to become huge. For example, a simple an effective protocol that will transform anyone into a "mass monster" would be:

There is never a reason to go below 1,000mg testosterone except for health reasons. 600mg-800mg's of nandralone is a good baseline year round, use varying amounts of the phenyl propionate ester to blast an additional 400-600mg's of nandralone off and on as the decanoate ester is simply too slow for well timed "blasts" when staying on year long in a "blast and cruise" protocol.

Dianabol and Anadrol are extremely beneficial. These two drugs provide a level of muscle fullness, weight gain and strength (remember, progressive overload is the key to growth so the heavier you lift, the bigger you will get - up to a point, anyway) that proves invaluable. Dbol/Drol is best taken in one large dose pre workout, on non-workout days you can take a much smaller dose (or none at all) and stagger the difference to allow for larger dosages on workout days. For example:

This typically allows the user to reap all the positive benefits of higher doses at the most important time (during the workout) while avoiding a lot of the negative side effects that come with daily doses of such quantities.

Take growth hormone only on workout days, in an entire dose post workout. Even if you can only afford 5iu's of real growth hormone per week, take the total amount you would use weekly and divide it in one larger shot post workout, only on workout days. Use insulin everyday, first thing in the morning before breakfast. On training days, use insulin pre workout - timing dependent on the time of insulin used. 10g carbs per 1iu is a good starting place for insulin but it is not the be all and end all, many people are fine with 6-7g per 1iu and then some require 14-15g per 1iu. The more GH you use, the more insulin your body can tolerate with less carbs, this is part of the reason GH keeps you leaner when using insulin. Remember, insulin increases nutrient shuttling it does NOT shuttle 100 percent of the nutrients into the muscles. When you add IGF to the equation, it causes the exact opposite effect of GH: you can now tolerate much less insulin and need much more carbs. The best combination is all 3: IGF, hGH and insulin.

Sermorelin is another effective peptide that many guys are discovering has true benefits. it is very easy to get prescribed to sermorelin, pretty much any anti-aging doc will do it as it is far less regulated in its uses than GH. Sermorelin WILL keep you leaner, hungrier and have a synergistic muscle building effect with the anabolics as well as with other peptides like GH and IGF. The best way to use sermorelin is basically the opposite of GH: instead of one large dose, take sermorelin everyday, 3-5 times per day in the "saturation dose" each time.

whats the theory behind that? Assuming the muscle is recovering for not only hours but days after the stimulus, it would make sense to keep the drugs level high for a long period after the workout session, no?

OK now post this in the correct section . Are you trying to be the new GH15? first off you can get huge off way less Test,deca, dbol and anadrol. ven th HGH is high unless you are using chinese. 6-8IU's of serostim is like taking 14-16IU's of HGH. I believe todays bodybuilders do not train as hard as the old school pros. some people can get by off way less depending on their genetics. Hell I gained 40lbs this year just off a small dose of 250-500mg of Test E a week and some USA HGH- 4 IU's a day.

most important thing was my diet and training.I would not suggest anybody using that much test! I am sure people use that much but it is over-kill. It also depends on the ester though. some esters you do need higher doses.mainly the fast acting esters such as prop, suspension or sust. those are usually shot daily. I do like stacking dbol with anadrol. alot of people do not agree with 2 orals but those two compounds together work magic.

OK now post this in the correct section . Are you trying to be the new GH15? first off you can get huge off way less Test,deca, dbol and anadrol. ven th HGH is high unless you are using chinese. 6-8IU's of serostim is like taking 14-16IU's of HGH. I believe todays bodybuilders do not train as hard as the old school pros. some people can get by off way less depending on their genetics. Hell I gained 40lbs this year just off a small dose of 250-500mg of Test E a week and some USA HGH- 4 IU's a day.

most important thing was my diet and training.I would not suggest anybody using that much test! I am sure people use that much but it is over-kill. It also depends on the ester though. some esters you do need higher doses.mainly the fast acting esters such as prop, suspension or sust. those are usually shot daily. I do like stacking dbol with anadrol. alot of people do not agree with 2 orals but those two compounds together work magic.

1) "gh15" gave horrendous drug advice. One of the initial reasons I registered on this board was to attempt to set the record straight about the nonsense he was suggesting.

2) Do you honestly believe you can reach pro size with hard training, good diet and 500mg's of test?

OK now post this in the correct section . Are you trying to be the new GH15? first off you can get huge off way less Test,deca, dbol and anadrol. ven th HGH is high unless you are using chinese. 6-8IU's of serostim is like taking 14-16IU's of HGH. I believe todays bodybuilders do not train as hard as the old school pros. some people can get by off way less depending on their genetics. Hell I gained 40lbs this year just off a small dose of 250-500mg of Test E a week and some USA HGH- 4 IU's a day.

most important thing was my diet and training.I would not suggest anybody using that much test! I am sure people use that much but it is over-kill. It also depends on the ester though. some esters you do need higher doses.mainly the fast acting esters such as prop, suspension or sust. those are usually shot daily. I do like stacking dbol with anadrol. alot of people do not agree with 2 orals but those two compounds together work magic.

I run 1000mg test a week and going to start 2IU gh here shortly. Learning how to eat, Learning how to manipulate your body via the foods you eat is more important than the drugs, they are just a bonus IMO.

Year 1 255 pounds at 36% body fat (yup i was a fat fucker), running 500mg as most noobs would stepped on stage at 196 (yup still too fat, should have been 176). Ran tren\winny\anavar pre-contest

year 2-3 and part of 4 231 pounds held for the whole time, getting leaner and bigger each year. I plan to step on stage again at 196 come June 2013. Running 750-1000mg for this whole time doctor monitored.

Its all about diet and cardio, drugs help. I would agree here 100% that you dont need 4-5-6 combinations of steroids. If you cant grow on 500mg week you have bigger issues like diet training and rest.

I will blast up to 2000mg for 10 weeks, then come back down to 1000-750 for the off season.

Would also concur 100% that the trainers of today dont train as hard as the pros of the past, why? They are on more drugs which blows them up quicker.But let me tell you, there is a huge difference between a blown up gym rat, and a bodybuilder. We all know the skin, the vascular look, the huge ripped monster with 6-8 pack abs year round.

Why do I wear head phones, so the fuck tards wont bother me and ask me what or how much drugs i'm taking. They don't get the fact that you have to eat right, they want the short cut.

i agree with bench123 and trapz101 that it would be great to hear from you about diet and drugs for someone who is not a pro level but just wanting to win a small city competition. Could you lay out a 16 week plan for something like this?

I run 1000mg test a week and going to start 2IU gh here shortly. Learning how to eat, Learning how to manipulate your body via the foods you eat is more important than the drugs, they are just a bonus IMO.

Year 1 255 pounds at 36% body fat (yup i was a fat fucker), running 500mg as most noobs would stepped on stage at 196 (yup still too fat, should have been 176). Ran tren\winny\anavar pre-contest

year 2-3 and part of 4 231 pounds held for the whole time, getting leaner and bigger each year. I plan to step on stage again at 196 come June 2013. Running 750-1000mg for this whole time doctor monitored.

Its all about diet and cardio, drugs help. I would agree here 100% that you dont need 4-5-6 combinations of steroids. If you cant grow on 500mg week you have bigger issues like diet training and rest.

I will blast up to 2000mg for 10 weeks, then come back down to 1000-750 for the off season.

Would also concur 100% that the trainers of today dont train as hard as the pros of the past, why? They are on more drugs which blows them up quicker.But let me tell you, there is a huge difference between a blown up gym rat, and a bodybuilder. We all know the skin, the vascular look, the huge ripped monster with 6-8 pack abs year round.

Why do I wear head phones, so the fuck tards wont bother me and ask me what or how much drugs i'm taking. They don't get the fact that you have to eat right, they want the short cut.

good post. I agree with everything. if you cannot gain off 500mg a week something is wrong with your training or diet. I think todays bodybuilders are a bit lazy.

1) "gh15" gave horrendous drug advice. One of the initial reasons I registered on this board was to attempt to set the record straight about the nonsense he was suggesting.

2) Do you honestly believe you can reach pro size with hard training, good diet and 500mg's of test?

1. well I agree GH15's advice seemed to be just for people looking to get pro size. I agree his advice was not to helpful and dangerous.

2. No I dont think you can go pro with just taking 500mg of test. But you can go pro using way less then 2,000mg of test. everybody who is trying to go pro is going to have to include HGH and insulin and also take alot of time learning on how to use the combo in a correct manner so you get the synergestic effect of both the HGH and insulin. I think alot of people over-complicate things! It is pretty simple! people make the drug use sound way to complicated.

I think todays pros are a tad lazy and rely on way more drugs then pro's of the past. Genetics, hard work, and diet are just as important as someones drug use. the drug use is the easy part. you can buy steroids and HGH but you cannot buy genetics.

1. well I agree GH15's advice seemed to be just for people looking to get pro size. I agree his advice was not to helpful and dangerous.

2. No I dont think you can go pro with just taking 500mg of test. But you can go pro using way less then 2,000mg of test. everybody who is trying to go pro is going to have to include HGH and insulin and also take alot of time learning on how to use the combo in a correct manner so you get the synergestic effect of both the HGH and insulin. I think alot of people over-complicate things! It is pretty simple! people make the drug use sound way to complicated.

I think todays pros are a tad lazy and rely on way more drugs then pro's of the past. Genetics, hard work, and diet are just as important as someones drug use. the drug use is the easy part. you can buy steroids and HGH but you cannot buy genetics.

I have stated in previous posts that bodybuilding is a contest of genetics. Regardless, you cannot go pro on 2,000mg or less of gear today (or in this decade...or in the 90s...or in the 80s...) - rather, no one has competed yet with such a genetic response that he could go pro on 2,000mg or less of gear.

The reality of competing at the top level today is you need a lot of anabolic steroids, a lot of growth hormone and a lot of insulin and the best genetics.

It isn't helpful to tell people that 500mg's is what one should be gaining off of no matter what. Its wrong.

I have stated in previous posts that bodybuilding is a contest of genetics. Regardless, you cannot go pro on 2,000mg or less of gear today (or in this decade...or in the 90s...or in the 80s...) - rather, no one has competed yet with such a genetic response that he could go pro on 2,000mg or less of gear.

The reality of competing at the top level today is you need a lot of anabolic steroids, a lot of growth hormone and a lot of insulin and the best genetics.

It isn't helpful to tell people that 500mg's is what one should be gaining off of no matter what. Its wrong.

Read all the posts about guys asking for a cycle that is meant for just a gym-rat! Not everybody is itching to inject themselves 10 times a day.On the other hand I agree it would take over 2,000mg of gear but not just Test! also I think 500mg of just test is perfectly fine if you are using other compounds. If you have human grade Test No reason using more then 500mg-750mg a week stacked with whatever other steroids you are taking to bulk plus your HGH and slin. All I am saying if you have good genetics you will gain off of a cycle just using 500mg of Test and 1,500 mg of other compounds but not all Test.

It does also depend on what test ester you use. some Test like suspension you have to shoot everyday,same with Test prop and sust-IMO. Those Test esters have to be shot everyday.

But a long acting Test like Test E you can shoot just 2-3 times a week depending on the mg amount. I would never base a cycle on more then 750mg of test. If you decide to bulk for 14-16 weeks and have some great genetics you will gain using 500-750mg of Test E per week,600mg of deca per week, 700mg of primo enanthate and 50mg of dbol everyday and 50mg of anadrol pre-workout on training days only, plus your HGH and insulin and possibly a anchillery if needed, If you have great genetics and know how to train and diet you will gain some solid muscle off a stack like that.

Hell I gained a little more then 40lbs just using 250-500mg of Test E and 4IU's of serostim. all legit from the pharmacy. the key was my diet! I ate alot of everything! I used a calorie is a calorie mike mentzer method. My BF% did go up from 6% to 12% but 42 lbs is a huge amount of weight to gain in 13 months

Read all the posts about guys asking for a cycle that is meant for just a gym-rat! Not everybody is itching to inject themselves 10 times a day.On the other hand I agree it would take over 2,000mg of gear but not just Test! also I think 500mg of just test is perfectly fine if you are using other compounds. If you have human grade Test No reason using more then 500mg-750mg a week stacked with whatever other steroids you are taking to bulk plus your HGH and slin. All I am saying if you have good genetics you will gain off of a cycle just using 500mg of Test and 1,500 mg of other compounds but not all Test.

It does also depend on what test ester you use. some Test like suspension you have to shoot everyday,same with Test prop and sust-IMO. Those Test esters have to be shot everyday.

But a long acting Test like Test E you can shoot just 2-3 times a week depending on the mg amount. I would never base a cycle on more then 750mg of test. If you decide to bulk for 14-16 weeks and have some great genetics you will gain using 500-750mg of Test E per week,600mg of deca per week, 700mg of primo enanthate and 50mg of dbol everyday and 50mg of anadrol pre-workout on training days only, plus your HGH and insulin and possibly a anchillery if needed, If you have great genetics and know how to train and diet you will gain some solid muscle off a stack like that.

Hell I gained a little more then 40lbs just using 250-500mg of Test E and 4IU's of serostim. all legit from the pharmacy. the key was my diet! I ate alot of everything! I used a calorie is a calorie mike mentzer method. My BF% did go up from 6% to 12% but 42 lbs is a huge amount of weight to gain in 13 months

I would have to agree with most of this, I have run my test up to 2g week and its nasty sides suck ass.For me personally its better around 750 with other compounds that dont cause acne etc. HGH, SLIN, non aromatizing test.

I would also agree that you need 2g + of gear to even break into the pros, my coach wants me on 3g week. Im not ready for that yet. I dont want to die, I just want to do a few shows and have fun.

Most gym rats can deal with 500mg week, some tren, eq, sust, test e/c/p whatever. But you start talking GH and they gloss over. In most cases they dont even know what the fuck there putting in their bodies, "oh one mill of sust and 2 ml deca" yeah but whats the dose, "oh im not sure, the dealer told me to take it"

Like fuck pull your head out of your ass.

Diet and training for gym rats 101: learn what you put in your body, do a little research, and chart and log everything. Stop bugging me asking me what im taking if your not willing to listen to my advice

I would have to agree with most of this, I have run my test up to 2g week and its nasty sides suck ass.For me personally its better around 750 with other compounds that dont cause acne etc. HGH, SLIN, non aromatizing test.

I would also agree that you need 2g + of gear to even break into the pros, my coach wants me on 3g week. Im not ready for that yet. I dont want to die, I just want to do a few shows and have fun.

Most gym rats can deal with 500mg week, some tren, eq, sust, test e/c/p whatever. But you start talking GH and they gloss over. In most cases they dont even know what the fuck there putting in their bodies, "oh one mill of sust and 2 ml deca" yeah but whats the dose, "oh im not sure, the dealer told me to take it"

Like fuck pull your head out of your ass.

Diet and training for gym rats 101: learn what you put in your body, do a little research, and chart and log everything. Stop bugging me asking me what im taking if your not willing to listen to my advice

I agree it really depends on ones goal. some guys on here are real advanced and want to compete,but the majority of guys on here just want a safe gymrat cycle. the guys who are using heavy know what they are doing so there is no need to preach to them. I have seen all these so called pro cycle and most of them are just made up! talk to alot of pros and you will find out they really don't use as much as people on the boards claim they do. But there are the few exceptions and those are usually the pro with shit genetics who does not train as hard as the others and has a shitty diet.

What does 1000-2000mg of test even feel like? I ran 500 and I felt like king of the world. Can't even imagine 2000mg

It made me very lethargic.

I've ran 5g's of combined AAS before and it's more common than people think. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but i was at my biggest and strongest by a long shot during this time.

I was on about 3g's of combined AAS earlier this year and i felt great. 900mg of Deca works wonders and a lot of people don't understand that what BFG is posting is about as accurate as it gets for upper level body builders. I know guys who use 3000mg of Test a week off and on for years, these guys happen to be the biggest guys i've ever met in person besides a few Pro's.

Cmon WW you know the big dogs are on some heavy ass test bro. I am friends with a lot of pros bro and one of my close friends (ifbb) takes 500mg test per day bro, people don't want to believe it but, we are talking the top 100 people on the planet, fucken right they are mega dosing on test and yes it is necessary.

I've ran 5g's of combined AAS before and it's more common than people think. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but i was at my biggest and strongest by a long shot during this time.

I was on about 3g's of combined AAS earlier this year and i felt great. 900mg of Deca works wonders and a lot of people don't understand that what BFG is posting is about as accurate as it gets for upper level body builders. I know guys who use 3000mg of Test a week off and on for years, these guys happen to be the biggest guys i've ever met in person besides a few Pro's.

Just my .02

Thanks for the info, overload. I suspected some might be taking such high doses but never knew it was so prevalent. I guess I assumed there was a sort of cap on how much test you could take until you started getting diminishing returns. What's the differences in gains from 500-1000mg of T in comparison to 3000mg?

Thanks for the info, overload. I suspected some might be taking such high doses but never knew it was so prevalent. I guess I assumed there was a sort of cap on how much test you could take until you started getting diminishing returns. What's the differences in gains from 500-1000mg of T in comparison to 3000mg?

it's different for everyone but more test always equals more gains until your body is creating more sides that start interfering in your progress and that is why the gains stop. Basically cause your body can not handle it and for most it is less the 2000mg, but for the genetic freaks that can handle 3000-4000mg of test, believe me they are benefiting from that amount.

I suspect the difference is not in the amount you gain in a short period of time but rather to break through your bodies limits. If 3000 mg of tests has you maxed out at 280 then 4000 might get you to 290. Absolutely no point for someone to start off high.

All the guys including myself that used high amounts worked up to it over a period of many years. Some of the guys i know who use these amounts have been using AAS for over 10 years off and on, more time on than off.

There is a point where the sides get out of control, but from what i have personally seen you can deal with it and your body adapts eventually, but not always. Some guys get insane sides while others get nothing. I think this is where a lot of people either up the dosage or realize they need to back off like i did.