Right now, when people say we're such and such under or over the cap, we're still talking about 2012 salaries, right? I'm assuming so because the new league year doesn't start until early March. If that's the case, and you take Avril out of the equation, and C. Williams, and Gosder, etc. etc., we're probably in a much better situation than is implied, right? I know we have to fill those spots somehow, I was just wondering because I've never heard this clearly stated.

Thanks in advance.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

February 18th, 2013, 4:28 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Killer's Korner

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Somewhat dumb cap space question, but humor me here:

Right now, when people say we're such and such under or over the cap, we're still talking about 2012 salaries, right? I'm assuming so because the new league year doesn't start until early March. If that's the case, and you take Avril out of the equation, and C. Williams, and Gosder, etc. etc., we're probably in a much better situation than is implied, right? I know we have to fill those spots somehow, I was just wondering because I've never heard this clearly stated.

Thanks in advance.

We're not "over the cap," we're currently under the cap by between $5 and $8 million dollars, pending on how much of a paycut Raiola took. Avril, Gos, Williams, etc., even Peterman and the recent cuts are out of the equation, as well as our other FAs that we still need to sign: Houston, Durant, etc.

So, we need to sign an OT, LB, CB, DE (X2 really) FS, and all of our rookies for $5-8 million right now. I'd say that's pretty damn bad. I don't think 70-80% of the fans really realize how bad it is, which is why they didn't understand why I wanted to shed some $13-23 million worth of salary last season. I explained all of this last year, but people don't want to hear it.

"In Mayhew we trust..." How's that workin' out for ya???

February 18th, 2013, 4:35 pm

thelomasbrowns

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pmPosts: 2539

Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Somewhat dumb cap space question, but humor me here:

Right now, when people say we're such and such under or over the cap, we're still talking about 2012 salaries, right? I'm assuming so because the new league year doesn't start until early March. If that's the case, and you take Avril out of the equation, and C. Williams, and Gosder, etc. etc., we're probably in a much better situation than is implied, right? I know we have to fill those spots somehow, I was just wondering because I've never heard this clearly stated.

Thanks in advance.

We're not "over the cap," we're currently under the cap by between $5 and $8 million dollars, pending on how much of a paycut Raiola took. Avril, Gos, Williams, etc., even Peterman and the recent cuts are out of the equation, as well as our other FAs that we still need to sign: Houston, Durant, etc.

So, we need to sign an OT, LB, CB, DE (X2 really) FS, and all of our rookies for $5-8 million right now. I'd say that's pretty damn bad. I don't think 70-80% of the fans really realize how bad it is, which is why they didn't understand why I wanted to shed some $13-23 million worth of salary last season. I explained all of this last year, but people don't want to hear it.

"In Mayhew we trust..." How's that workin' out for ya???

I know we're currently under the cap--I was asking more in general. And you didn't answer my question--you launched into a diatribe. No shock there.

_________________Jim Caldwell, on whether Jim Harbaugh is stealing his thunder: "Me? I don't have any thunder."

February 18th, 2013, 4:40 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Killer's Korner

thelomasbrowns wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thelomasbrowns wrote:

Somewhat dumb cap space question, but humor me here:

Right now, when people say we're such and such under or over the cap, we're still talking about 2012 salaries, right? I'm assuming so because the new league year doesn't start until early March. If that's the case, and you take Avril out of the equation, and C. Williams, and Gosder, etc. etc., we're probably in a much better situation than is implied, right? I know we have to fill those spots somehow, I was just wondering because I've never heard this clearly stated.

Thanks in advance.

We're not "over the cap," we're currently under the cap by between $5 and $8 million dollars, pending on how much of a paycut Raiola took. Avril, Gos, Williams, etc., even Peterman and the recent cuts are out of the equation, as well as our other FAs that we still need to sign: Houston, Durant, etc.

So, we need to sign an OT, LB, CB, DE (X2 really) FS, and all of our rookies for $5-8 million right now. I'd say that's pretty damn bad. I don't think 70-80% of the fans really realize how bad it is, which is why they didn't understand why I wanted to shed some $13-23 million worth of salary last season. I explained all of this last year, but people don't want to hear it.

"In Mayhew we trust..." How's that workin' out for ya???

I know we're currently under the cap--I was asking more in general. And you didn't answer my question--you launched into a diatribe. No shock there.

I did answer your question, we're not currently over the cap. To be more specific, it's the 2013 cap that we're talking about. To be even more specific, we're in a much WORSE situation "than is implied."

February 18th, 2013, 4:46 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2358Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Killer's Korner

i think he wanted to know how far under the cap we would be after avril, cwill, etc... leave

_________________76 days

February 18th, 2013, 11:00 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2451

Re: Killer's Korner

That is what he wanted and that's what was explained. All the FAs are off the books they have no value against the cap unless signed or tagged.

February 18th, 2013, 11:07 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Killer's Korner

sweetd20 wrote:

That is what he wanted and that's what was explained. All the FAs are off the books they have no value against the cap unless signed or tagged.

Do we have some cap problems? Yes. Are they as dire as wjb says? Not in the least bit. Mayhew is right about in the middle of the entire NFL in cap management. He is managing the cap no differently than any other GM. But, he is doing a better job of managing the cap than about half the league. But, some people who are not happy unless they can complain about something, would have you believe that Mayhew just smells like sewage.

As of yesterday according to Pat Kirwan:There are 12 teams that are currently over the cap for 2013. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

There are 8 teams that are $10+ Million over. And there are 3 teams that are $20+ Million over. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

What does this mean? It means that roughly 1/3 of the league is in worse cap shape than the Lions.

How can this be a good thing for the Lions and other teams? Take Cliff Avril for an example. He thinks he is going to make a fortune in Free Agency. But, what he is not realizing is there is a massive glut of DE's that will be FA's this year and too many teams that have little to no $$$. And it's the same at almost every position this year. To make it worse for FA's this year, when teams sign a guy, they will be cutting another. Which will further water down the FA's. Then after the draft, there will be another round of cap cuts.

Therefore, in this little mini era of stagnated cap growth, Player salaries are going to shrink until the cap starts growing again.

All we have to do is get Stafford extended and we will gain another estimated $6 Million in cap space each of the next 3 years. That would give us roughly $14 Million available for 2013 for our rookies and a few FA's.

February 19th, 2013, 2:28 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Killer's Korner

BillySims wrote:

Do we have some cap problems? Yes. Are they as dire as wjb says? Not in the least bit. Mayhew is right about in the middle of the entire NFL in cap management. He is managing the cap no differently than any other GM. But, he is doing a better job of managing the cap than about half the league. But, some people who are not happy unless they can complain about something, would have you believe that Mayhew just smells like sewage.

As of yesterday according to Pat Kirwan:There are 12 teams that are currently over the cap for 2013. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

There are 8 teams that are $10+ Million over. And there are 3 teams that are $20+ Million over. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

What does this mean? It means that roughly 1/3 of the league is in worse cap shape than the Lions.

How can this be a good thing for the Lions and other teams? Take Cliff Avril for an example. He thinks he is going to make a fortune in Free Agency. But, what he is not realizing is there is a massive glut of DE's that will be FA's this year and too many teams that have little to no $$$. And it's the same at almost every position this year. To make it worse for FA's this year, when teams sign a guy, they will be cutting another. Which will further water down the FA's. Then after the draft, there will be another round of cap cuts.

Therefore, in this little mini era of stagnated cap growth, Player salaries are going to shrink until the cap starts growing again.

All we have to do is get Stafford extended and we will gain another estimated $6 Million in cap space each of the next 3 years. That would give us roughly $14 Million available for 2013 for our rookies and a few FA's.

Billy, we're WORSE than many of those teams still over the cap.

We need to sign 2 starting caliber LBs, 2 starting caliber DEs, a starting caliber S, 2 starting caliber CBs, a starting caliber OT JUST TO FIELD A GOOD TEAM!!!

And we have to sign all of those players for $8 million dollars. GOOD LUCK!!! 8 starters, $8 million dollars... Have at it!

And that's not counting "luxury" players like OC, RB, and #2 WR.

This team is PHUCKED!

And all of that is not to mention that we've mortgaged our future to the HILT, constantly restructuring virtually every possible player for the last 3 years.

February 19th, 2013, 3:26 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12312

Re: Killer's Korner

wjb21ndtown wrote:

This team is PHUCKED!

You keep saying that, yet you continue to make the choice of following them....hmmm

Either you're full of it, greatly exaggerating the situation, don't believe it and want to have something to say, or insane, which is it?

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

February 19th, 2013, 4:53 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Killer's Korner

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

This team is PHUCKED!

You keep saying that, yet you continue to make the choice of following them....hmmm

Either you're full of it, greatly exaggerating the situation, don't believe it and want to have something to say, or insane, which is it?

I'm not going to root for another team. I like SF, GB, and NE. IMO those are the best ran football teams in the NFL, and I'll continue to follow them. This team will not go better than 6-10 next year. I guaranty it. We can't go better than 6-10. We have too many holes and not enough cash. It's impossible for us to field a complete team next year. Watch and see.

Do we have some cap problems? Yes. Are they as dire as wjb says? Not in the least bit. Mayhew is right about in the middle of the entire NFL in cap management. He is managing the cap no differently than any other GM. But, he is doing a better job of managing the cap than about half the league. But, some people who are not happy unless they can complain about something, would have you believe that Mayhew just smells like sewage.

As of yesterday according to Pat Kirwan:There are 12 teams that are currently over the cap for 2013. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

There are 8 teams that are $10+ Million over. And there are 3 teams that are $20+ Million over. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

What does this mean? It means that roughly 1/3 of the league is in worse cap shape than the Lions.

How can this be a good thing for the Lions and other teams? Take Cliff Avril for an example. He thinks he is going to make a fortune in Free Agency. But, what he is not realizing is there is a massive glut of DE's that will be FA's this year and too many teams that have little to no $$$. And it's the same at almost every position this year. To make it worse for FA's this year, when teams sign a guy, they will be cutting another. Which will further water down the FA's. Then after the draft, there will be another round of cap cuts.

Therefore, in this little mini era of stagnated cap growth, Player salaries are going to shrink until the cap starts growing again.

All we have to do is get Stafford extended and we will gain another estimated $6 Million in cap space each of the next 3 years. That would give us roughly $14 Million available for 2013 for our rookies and a few FA's.

Billy, we're WORSE than many of those teams still over the cap.

We need to sign 2 starting caliber LBs, 2 starting caliber DEs, a starting caliber S, 2 starting caliber CBs, a starting caliber OT JUST TO FIELD A GOOD TEAM!!!

And we have to sign all of those players for $8 million dollars. GOOD LUCK!!! 8 starters, $8 million dollars... Have at it!

And that's not counting "luxury" players like OC, RB, and #2 WR.

This team is PHUCKED!

And all of that is not to mention that we've mortgaged our future to the HILT, constantly restructuring virtually every possible player for the last 3 years.

For 1 thing, the available cap space will change. Once Stafford has been extended, you can figure we will gain about $6Million to out available cap space.

We do not need to sign 2 starting caliber LBers. We drafted Travis Lewis and Tahir Whitehead at LB last year. With a year under their belt, they should be ready to step in.

We do not need to sign 2 starting caliber DE's. Willy Young is a restricted FA. If we put the high tender on him, and someone signs him, we have will get compensation for him. Worst case scenario: We slightly over pay LoJack to stay here. We also drafted Ronnell Lewis to be a DE last year. YOU even said yourself in the Avril want Mario Williams $ thread

Quote:

wjb21ndtownOnlineCommissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:26 pmPosts: 10947Location: Grosse Pointe

Reply with quotePost Re: Cliff Avril may want Mario Williams type moneyBut if we do free up the money to accommodate his salary, we can keep him for a month up until the draft. Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a 4th this year than a 3rd next year. I really think we should be able to get a 2nd or 3rd for him this year, but in any event, even if it's a 4th, we need help now, and I would rather have a 4th round 2013 pick with a year of NFL experience under his belt starting for us, than a 3rd round rookie.

Either way, this whole cluster phuck is Mayhew's fault. He should have known what Avril's demands were prior to the 2012 draft, and dealt him then.

WELL........................................We did just that LAST YEAR! WOW. MAYHEW PLANNED AHEAD!!!!!!

I agree. We do need to sign a starting caliber Safety. Easily fixed with our 3rd round draft pick or a 4th round comp pick.

We do not need to sign 2 starting caliber CB's. We drafted a whole lot of CB's last year. Despite my initial reservations about Bentley, he was looking pretty good when he got hurt last year. I am comfortable with him on 1 side. The other side can be found in the 2nd round of this years draft. This is a CB and Safety heavy draft.

We do not need to sign a starting caliber OT. We drafted Reiff last year. He will be an outstanding RT. As for LT? With the 5th pick in the 2013 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Eric Fisher, LT, Central Michigan.

All your concerns are easily addressed with our first 3 draft picks and re-signing LoJack. This team is not, as you put it, "PHUCKED". You are simply so upset that the Lions dared to have a step back season that you are hell bent on an old and tragically bad strategy of scapegoating and firing people.

February 19th, 2013, 6:56 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Killer's Korner

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

Do we have some cap problems? Yes. Are they as dire as wjb says? Not in the least bit. Mayhew is right about in the middle of the entire NFL in cap management. He is managing the cap no differently than any other GM. But, he is doing a better job of managing the cap than about half the league. But, some people who are not happy unless they can complain about something, would have you believe that Mayhew just smells like sewage.

As of yesterday according to Pat Kirwan:There are 12 teams that are currently over the cap for 2013. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

There are 8 teams that are $10+ Million over. And there are 3 teams that are $20+ Million over. And the Detroit Lions are not 1 of those teams.

What does this mean? It means that roughly 1/3 of the league is in worse cap shape than the Lions.

How can this be a good thing for the Lions and other teams? Take Cliff Avril for an example. He thinks he is going to make a fortune in Free Agency. But, what he is not realizing is there is a massive glut of DE's that will be FA's this year and too many teams that have little to no $$$. And it's the same at almost every position this year. To make it worse for FA's this year, when teams sign a guy, they will be cutting another. Which will further water down the FA's. Then after the draft, there will be another round of cap cuts.

Therefore, in this little mini era of stagnated cap growth, Player salaries are going to shrink until the cap starts growing again.

All we have to do is get Stafford extended and we will gain another estimated $6 Million in cap space each of the next 3 years. That would give us roughly $14 Million available for 2013 for our rookies and a few FA's.

Billy, we're WORSE than many of those teams still over the cap.

We need to sign 2 starting caliber LBs, 2 starting caliber DEs, a starting caliber S, 2 starting caliber CBs, a starting caliber OT JUST TO FIELD A GOOD TEAM!!!

And we have to sign all of those players for $8 million dollars. GOOD LUCK!!! 8 starters, $8 million dollars... Have at it!

And that's not counting "luxury" players like OC, RB, and #2 WR.

This team is PHUCKED!

And all of that is not to mention that we've mortgaged our future to the HILT, constantly restructuring virtually every possible player for the last 3 years.

For 1 thing, the available cap space will change. Once Stafford has been extended, you can figure we will gain about $6Million to out available cap space.

We do not need to sign 2 starting caliber LBers. We drafted Travis Lewis and Tahir Whitehead at LB last year. With a year under their belt, they should be ready to step in.

We do not need to sign 2 starting caliber DE's. Willy Young is a restricted FA. If we put the high tender on him, and someone signs him, we have will get compensation for him. Worst case scenario: We slightly over pay LoJack to stay here. We also drafted Ronnell Lewis to be a DE last year. YOU even said yourself in the Avril want Mario Williams $ thread

Quote:

wjb21ndtownOnlineCommissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:26 pmPosts: 10947Location: Grosse Pointe

Reply with quotePost Re: Cliff Avril may want Mario Williams type moneyBut if we do free up the money to accommodate his salary, we can keep him for a month up until the draft. Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a 4th this year than a 3rd next year. I really think we should be able to get a 2nd or 3rd for him this year, but in any event, even if it's a 4th, we need help now, and I would rather have a 4th round 2013 pick with a year of NFL experience under his belt starting for us, than a 3rd round rookie.

Either way, this whole cluster phuck is Mayhew's fault. He should have known what Avril's demands were prior to the 2012 draft, and dealt him then.

WELL........................................We did just that LAST YEAR! WOW. MAYHEW PLANNED AHEAD!!!!!!

I agree. We do need to sign a starting caliber Safety. Easily fixed with our 3rd round draft pick or a 4th round comp pick.

We do not need to sign 2 starting caliber CB's. We drafted a whole lot of CB's last year. Despite my initial reservations about Bentley, he was looking pretty good when he got hurt last year. I am comfortable with him on 1 side. The other side can be found in the 2nd round of this years draft. This is a CB and Safety heavy draft.

We do not need to sign a starting caliber OT. We drafted Reiff last year. He will be an outstanding RT. As for LT? With the 5th pick in the 2013 NFL draft, the Detroit Lions select Eric Fisher, LT, Central Michigan.

All your concerns are easily addressed with our first 3 draft picks and re-signing LoJack. This team is not, as you put it, "PHUCKED". You are simply so upset that the Lions dared to have a step back season that you are hell bent on an old and tragically bad strategy of scapegoating and firing people.

1) When did I advocate allowing Willie Young (I still don't think he's ready to start, if anything, IMO he regressed last year), LoJack and Lewis to start at DE? No one is going to sign Willie Young as a RFA, he hasn't shown much.

2) You admit that we're going to start two subpar DEs, a second year 5th round LB that has never started at LB, and a rookie 3rd or 4th round draft pick at SS, and you don't think this team is phucked?

What do we do at CB? Let our last year's late round draft picks that have never started nor shown the ability to start take the reigns?

1) When did I advocate allowing Willie Young (I still don't think he's ready to start, if anything, IMO he regressed last year), LoJack and Lewis to start at DE? No one is going to sign Willie Young as a RFA, he hasn't shown much.

2) You admit that we're going to start two subpar DEs, a second year 5th round LB that has never started at LB, and a rookie 3rd or 4th round draft pick at SS, and you don't think this team is phucked?

What do we do at CB? Let our last year's late round draft picks that have never started nor shown the ability to start take the reigns?

Wonna bet this team doesn't win more than 6 games right now?

1) I didn't say you advocated starting them. I advocated it. We do not need to replace 2 DE's this year is all I'm saying. I think Willy Young is capable. Will he work out? I don't know. But, we have 3 guys that can be rotated in and out.

2) So what? They are young. That does not mean they are subpar. The 2 LBers won't be any worse than Durant and Levy. As for the DE's being Subpar. A 4th round draft pick with a year of experience is exactly what you advocated in the other thread. We did it. Last year. Ronnell Lewis is a 4th round Draft pick that has now got a year of experience under his belt. And Safeties are not exactly the hardest position to fill with good talent.

So, in short, I do not believe this team is "PHUCKED". I don't have an oppinion how many games they will win next season yet. We are only in the infancy of this off season. And you already need tranquilizers.