Stilton: I’ve read half a dozen translations of the bible, and I still don’t understand how anybody can make sense of it without deluding themselves in some way. I agree that using a single passage to prove anything either way is poor show. The chief ridiculousness I find in the bible, though, is that it requires interpretation to make any sense at all.

I would happily agree there. What the Bible says seems to always reflect what the reader thinks. In that sense, it feels like the religion does nothing else but help people claim superiority of their own views without needing any logical backing for them. You can pretty much always go to the Bible and say “look, God agrees with me.” What does that make God then?

No seriously, if you look at some of the things said in the Bible about him God is kind of a douche.

And if you look at other things in the Bible, he will forgive anything at all and will go to earth in human form and die for you. If God is a dick, then it has nothing to do with the Bible, but rather that he’d provide us with a holy book that is so full of contradiction and open to interpretation that it is in essence meaningless and then tell us that’s the way we are supposed to get to know him.

We’ve gotten a litlte off topic hear. I think that suicide is worse than murder (unless it’s like murder on countless lives, like hitler.)
In christianity and many other religions, suicide is worse than death. One reason is because it means that you have given up faith in God and God’s plans for you.You feel that your life has no value, and you either do not care or didn’t think about the pain it would cause friends and family.

No seriously, if you look at some of the things said in the Bible about him God is kind of a douche.

For the French…
that would be a forty day & forty nighter… 0¿~

BUT, yeah….
the OT is full of: Best to FEAR ME,,,than to LUV ME kind of “Father”.

Well, look at how we have progressed as humans? It seems that god’s mood (i guess that’s what you would call it.) has changed along with humanity. In the OT humans were more ruthless and fear me and all that stuff, just as the bible describes him at the time.

I would say it depends on the specific situation one is in. For example, if it’s a person with no close family, friends, and nothing to live for, I don’t see how that would be as bad as murder. He would be dead and no one would care. However, if someone committed suicide and subsequently caused much grief to family and friends, that would obviously be a bit different than the first situation I described.

This is slightly off-topic, but please note I do not condone or encourage suicide in any way, and even if someone was in a situation like the first one, I would still urge him/her to get help.

there are many different reasons for suicide and it certainly cannot be compared to murder… if you are in an unbareable situation and don’t see any way out of it over a long time, it might be nothing more than the only option you have left… and people with depression feel themselves to be in exactly that situation

@OP: no, none whatsoever. suicide is a choice (well, more-or-less. this could be a whole discussion of it’s own), and as far as i’m concerned a right. as for family: fuck ’em.

i mean, i’ve heard extreme cases: i actually had a neighbour two doors down that hung himself in the backyard to be found by his 10 yo daughters. i mean, there’s always a way to be a total asshole about it. but in itself…

see that’s the problem. having a generalised, policy punishment with no option to review case-by-case is a horrible system that rejects ethics instead of advocating them.

If we say that murder is just as bad as suicide and vice versa, then this whole thread needs to STOP right now! Why? Two things can only be equally [an identity factor (X)] if and only if they belong to the same class or if one is a(n) (in)direct (proper)subset/member of such a (proper)subset pertaining to the logical hierarchy of platonic ideals. In this case, suicide would be considered a type of murder and, since a contrast/comparison between a certain composition ‘A’ and a subject rationally belonging to it is essentially meaningless, then (read:if the previously stipulated criteria of existence are fulfilled), this thread is basically pointless in continuation. An example of such ignorance is wonderfully instantiated by the following case: “Is ‘Yellow’ better or is ‘Light-Yellow’ better?” etc. In the context of evaluation, if the fundamental essences are shared between the two foci, then, to consolidate, this discussion has already achieved its purpose to maximum extent, albeit in an extremely limited scenario of exploration nonetheless. In other words, there really isn’t anything of worth to be further contributed here.

However, if we regard suicide as something distinctly different from muder per se in all due respect(s), then I would have to abnegate that suicide is consensual whereas murder is, strictly speaking, independent of the inflicted party’s interests. Thus, suicide (as seen logically coexistent with suicide as dichotomous relatively) is justified in a certain sense whereas murder… is unforeseen violence of the unwarranted variety and therefore is to be given as illegal whereas suicide is fine provided some constraints.

I would say it depends on the specific situation one is in. For example, if it’s a person with no close family, friends, and nothing to live for, I don’t see how that would be as bad as murder. He would be dead and no one would care. However, if someone committed suicide and subsequently caused much grief to family and friends, that would obviously be a bit different than the first situation I described.

This is slightly off-topic, but please note I do not condone or encourage suicide in any way, and even if someone was in a situation like the first one, I would still urge him/her to get help.

=_=

By the categorical imperative, humans are ends in themselves. Your stance of judgement defies that precept. Just saying. What I’m trying to transmit here is just that I strongly disagree with you- although I will allow you some intellectual lenience anyway.

well in God’s eyes they are both equal,however in some cases you probably can be pardoned from it,but i would not purposely try it or encourage it just to see if i would go to hell or not.i think if a person is not at their right mind,like for instance,have severe brain damage or schizophrenia then they may see no other way out or a SEVERELYTORTURED or ABUSED person may give in to suicide then that may be forgiven but to just do it because your high on drugs,a drunk,or what not,then well suicide cannot be forgiven but murder can be if you stop the crime and ask for forgiveness before you die,but it has to be true and God knows your heart and why you are sorry.
but suicide once your dead there is no turning back unless God lets you live and it could be a very painful experience but it will show you that your life was after all worth living but doing it for attention would be very dreadful on the loved ones too.so why you ask this?You are confused and you are asking the internet for help.Worst place to go 2.

but i would not purposely try it or encourage it just to see if i would go to hell or not.

You mean suicide?

Yeah, I don’t think that’s one of the focal points when trying to decide whether or not to off yourself.

i think if a person is not at their right mind,like for instance,have severe brain damage or schizophrenia then they may see no other way out

Uhh, medication?

Well, among other things.

or a SEVERELYTORTURED or ABUSED person may give in to suicide

No shit?

then that may be forgiven

Yeah, I know that this topic inherently brings religion into it, but… You’re bringing religion into this. A lot.

but to just do it because your high on drugs,a drunk,or what not,then well suicide cannot be forgiven

Uhh, you can accidentally kill yourself by ODing, you know.

Unless you meant purposefully, in which case it’s not as simple as that.

but murder can be if you stop the crime and ask for forgiveness before you die,

Seems like a kind of unfair “get out of jail free card,” isn’t it?

And I don’t really know how you can stop murdering someone, it doesn’t seem like something that could be physically or mentally possible.

but it has to be true and God knows your heart and why you are sorry.

Oh God, you’re one of those religious people, aren’t you?

but suicide once your dead there is no turning back unless God lets you live and it could be a very painful experience but it will show you that your life was after all worth living but doing it for attention would be very dreadful on the loved ones too.

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