What do you think about O-Ring over Journey to Nowhere in T2 decks that are running Journeys actually? One more mana to cast, but an almost-infinite list of targets.
I would like to read some opinions about it...

And btw,
Is Ponder the new Preordain in T2 decks now with M12? A Preordain in steroids or am I missing something? lol

imo, if wizards had only made o-ring legal earlier then jtms wouldn't have to be banned. oh yeah, that and don't print batterskull.

preordain > ponder

preordain offers more flexible library manipulation

bye

o-ring legal in the past year t2 wouldnt help really a lot to shuffle the metagame, since it would also be played 3-4x in caw blade, making imo that deck also stronger, and by not being an ultimate answer (see into the roil)
however i agree with "don't print batterskull"

Ponder is better if you are looking for one specific card, such as in splinter twin, simply because it lets you dig deeper. Preordain is better for just generally smoothing your draws.
Without fetchlands preordain is much better.

This is wrong. Scrying allows you to get rid of useless cards, somethingponder doesn't.

You can shuffle with ponder...

The differences is when you've one good card and the rest is garbage. With preordain you'll get the good card and put the garbage bottom, with ponder if you want to get the good card you'll get the garbage too, unless you've a shuffle effect. Ponder makes you look at one extra card too, so they are both great. Maybe preordain it's a little better.

They do actually dig as deep as each other just you do not get to see the 3rd card with pre-ordain, so they are equally as good if your looking for a specific card.

Just pre-ordain puts the spells you dont want on the bottom getting you closer to the spell you need always, whilst ponder just shuffles which may or may not improve situation but overall will be slightly mathematically worse than pre-ordain as you dont get to discount the two cards you do not want, that you know are on the bottom of your library. Magic is a game of small margins any time you can improve your % no matter by how little you always should.

Plus as said ponder forces you to keep crap sometimes fort 1 card.

So preordain>ponder

And O-ring is clearly so much more versatile than journey that its not even a competition.

=> Well, I think that about the O-Ring, everyone are in syntony! It's obviously much better then Journey, even if you need one more mana and/or turn to cast it!

=> About Preordain and Pounder, the opinions diverge a little, but I think that even with everyone in agree on the fact that both cards have their pros and cons, Preordain is still the card of choice by almost all of you guys!

Anyway, with M11 out, Pounder will be the new Preordain! In my opinion it are going to get the job done, but after reading all of your opinions I realized that Pounder isn't that "Preordain-in-steroids" as I mentioned on the original post! That's for sure![/b]

Actually in about 85-90% of cases preordain is better. Ponder is better only when your looking for a key card on turn two, such as bitterblossom. In most cases preordain is just absurdly better though, because it has a better power level.

This is not even a discussion. IF planeswalkers had never been printed, there might be an argument here. But since they have and are also heavily played in most modern formats, there is simply no discussion.

Oblivion Ring not only is way better than journey, it's WAY better than pretty much any other spot removal in the format other then dismember. I know that there are a lot of good/different removal right now and they all serve different purposes, but Dismember and O-Ring are the only ones that are really above the power curve (though Lightning Bolt comes close, it sees play even absurdly bad positioned!).

As for Preordain vs. Ponder:

Xxapathyxx got it just right. For the reasons he's mentioned, only the most dedicated combo deck could possibly prefer Ponder over Preordain and these will probably just have both anyway. In control, aggro-control, fish decks and pretty much any other archetype, Preordain > Ponder.

Although, IF for some reason you could only play one of them in something like Splinter Twin or Pyromancer's Ascension, I guess I'd have to say Ponder. But again that's a non-issue, since you can have both.

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