if god is all knowing why did he create lucifer knowing in advance that he would revolt and tempt eve into eating the forbidden fruit and set the stage for jesus's execution why was all of that necessary why didn't god just forgive mankind if he knew all of this was going to happen?

If you're going to accept "many worlds quantum mechanics", then this is a useless question. There is a universe that exists in which God did not create Lucifer knowing in advance that he would revolt and tempt Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, etc. Try asking your question on OCNet in that universe and see what they tell you.

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also MANY WORLDS QUANTAM MECHANICS SUGGESTS THAT WITH EVERY DECISION THAT A PERSON MAKES ON THEIR ON VOLITION WITH FREE WILL TWO PARALELL UNIVERSES OPEN UP ONE WHERE THE PERSON HAS MADE THAT DECISION AND ONE WHERE THEY HAVE NOT THEREFORE WE CAN SEE THAT GOD IS NOT THE ONLY ONE IWTH THE ABILITY TO CREATE UNIVERSES. AND THE BIBLE SUGGESTS THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIVERSE THAT IS FLAWED

Again, with "many worlds quantum mechanics", there's not just one Bible. Every time someone wrote down one of the books, a universe came into being with that book and a universe without that book. Repeat the process about 72 times, etc. I refer you to those universes.

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"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet. He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants. But he really isn't around anymore.

if god is all knowing why did he create lucifer knowing in advance that he would revolt and tempt eve into eating the forbidden fruit and set the stage for jesus's execution why was all of that necessary why didn't god just forgive mankind if he knew all of this was going to happen?

If you're going to accept "many worlds quantum mechanics", then this is a useless question. There is a universe that exists in which God did not create Lucifer knowing in advance that he would revolt and tempt Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, etc. Try asking your question on OCNet in that universe and see what they tell you.

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also MANY WORLDS QUANTAM MECHANICS SUGGESTS THAT WITH EVERY DECISION THAT A PERSON MAKES ON THEIR ON VOLITION WITH FREE WILL TWO PARALELL UNIVERSES OPEN UP ONE WHERE THE PERSON HAS MADE THAT DECISION AND ONE WHERE THEY HAVE NOT THEREFORE WE CAN SEE THAT GOD IS NOT THE ONLY ONE IWTH THE ABILITY TO CREATE UNIVERSES. AND THE BIBLE SUGGESTS THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIVERSE THAT IS FLAWED

Again, with "many worlds quantum mechanics", there's not just one Bible. Every time someone wrote down one of the books, a universe came into being with that book and a universe without that book. Repeat the process about 72 times, etc. I refer you to those universes.

if god is all knowing why did he create lucifer knowing in advance that he would revolt and tempt eve into eating the forbidden fruit and set the stage for jesus's execution why was all of that necessary why didn't god just forgive mankind if he knew all of this was going to happen? also MANY WORLDS QUANTAM MECHANICS SUGGESTS THAT WITH EVERY DECISION THAT A PERSON MAKES ON THEIR ON VOLITION WITH FREE WILL TWO PARALELL UNIVERSES OPEN UP ONE WHERE THE PERSON HAS MADE THAT DECISION AND ONE WHERE THEY HAVE NOT THEREFORE WE CAN SEE THAT GOD IS NOT THE ONLY ONE IWTH THE ABILITY TO CREATE UNIVERSES. AND THE BIBLE SUGGESTS THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIVERSE THAT IS FLAWED

This can be remedied and resolved for ... If you get a comprehensive review of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

When I was a teenager we had this way of saying "You lie!" that was joking, because the lie was so transparent that it was barely worth even pointing out, but we would just to poke fun at the person. It's hard to get across the proper inflection on "lie" in text. Still... you lie!

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"Christian America is finally waking up to what fraternities and biker gangs have known for years: hazing works!"

When I was a kid and my Nintendo had this issue (screen blinking meaninglessly when switched on), I would open the top, take the game cartridge out, blow into it once or twice, replace the cartridge, and try again.

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"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet. He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants. But he really isn't around anymore.

When I was a kid and my Nintendo had this issue (screen blinking meaninglessly when switched on), I would open the top, take the game cartridge out, blow into it once or twice, replace the cartridge, and try again.

On a recent episode (circa late June) of Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, Fallon played an old Nintendo cartridge like a harmonica.

And Quantum mechanics, is a mathematized abstraction. Do we really know that it describes the way things really are, or is it a useful mathematical model for making predictions? What if there is another paradigm shift in physics? Does your argument fall apart?

« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 02:22:17 AM by Papist »

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You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Im greek and im an atheist and my disbelief lies not in not wanting to be punished but throught careful critique of the bible i respect a christians right to believe in christ. I just have a few questions regarding the bible. First if god is ominisint that is he is all-knowing then why would he create the angel lucifer knowing he would revolt and tempt adam and eve to eat the fruit in the garden of even leading to christ's eventual crucifixition. Second is the question of freewill which many christians use to rebuttle the first question and that is if god knew that adam and eve were going to eat the fruit then what is the point of the narrative as a whole "the heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps" proverbs 16"9 from this we can see that god knew all along that lucifer would revolt, adam and eve would eat the fruit and that judas would betray him. Also if god is all powerful then when he came down to earth in the form of his son god as man or jesus christ he still has the qualities of what we will call a god( in the ten commandments thou shall have no gods before me implies there are other gods) they how can humans with inferior mortal faculties kill a god who is omnipitient if jesus is real he should still be alive on the cross and we should be able to ask him and question we want. if anybody has any objections to this logic i would be happy to debate them in a civil and noncritical way as i have stated i am tolerant of other peoples belief systems

That's actually not what Proverbs 16:9 states. "He who does evil things is an abomination to a king, for the throne of a ruler is prepared with righteousness. Righteous lips are acceptable to a king and he loves upright words." Proverbs 16:8-9 (Orthodox Study Bible).

God is a mystery, the Trinity is a mystery. The Orthodox never said it wasn't, but instead those of us who choose to accept Christianity have chosen to embrace the Mystery. To accept that there is a God who loves us so much, that he chose to conquer death so that we might be forgiven. C.S. Lewis once said that we should forgive others, because God chose to forgive the inexcusable in us.

The Lord is also not stating that there are other gods when he issued the commandments on Exodus. Yet Moses knew well, that in the minds and hearts of the Israelites that polytheism was not unheard of and so a commandment had to be issued. "For all of the gods of the nations are demons, but the Lord made the heavens." (Psalm 95:5), Instead of demons most Protestant bibles which use the Hebrew translation use the word "idols". This is repeated throughout Scripture, we make gods after our own likeness, gods of gold, wood, and silver. It doesn't mean they are real though except in our imaginations.

Jesus is real, but he also took on a human nature. How could the economy of salvation ever work out, if he were not also human? He came to live with us, to dwell with us, to eat with us. He was said to have cried tears of blood in Gethsamane, was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days as we are all tempted. Yet he rose above it all because of his divine nature that was Pre-existent, and always was. His Pre-Incarnate form is evidence throughout Scripture according to the Fathers, as the "angel of the LORD".

But when it comes to the act of Faith itself, I should know that it is very difficult. You cannot come to belief on your own, but if you would give yourself a chance to attend Divine Liturgy and to pray you will eventually feel something. Even if you don't know who or what you are praying to just yet, eventually that spark of Faith can be ignited in your heart. Keep in mind that much as a flower, it must be fed and nurtured. This is something I have had to learn as well in spite of all of the chaos going on in my mental, emotional, and spiritual life as some have taken note of by my previous posts on this Forum.

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Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity

If you had come into contact with God, when he spoke with you, and talked with you -- would your life not also radically be transformed that you yourself would follow him to the ends of the earth? Then you know why most reliable testimonies are from strictly Christian sources.

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Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity

Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews: Book 18 Chapter 3Tacitus: Annals: 15:44Thallus: quoted by Julius Africanus: Extant Writings (Ante Nicean Fathers: by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson) (possible mention of the solar eclipse at the crucifixion)Pliny the Younger: LettersTalmud:Sanhedrin 43a p.281Lucian: The Death of Peregrine:Works of Lucian of Samosata

I know the theory you are telling us about. It's one of the most funny ones.But it's not real. Tell me now. God wanted to forgive mankind. Yo uaks why He sent His Son? We have decided to stay away. To bring us back He wants us to say yes. He respects free will. Show the sacrifice was needed. Someone perfect. Sacrificing one hair of Christ could save us but He wanted to suffer so much to show His true love.

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God is Love.Ό Θεός ἀγάπη ἐστί.There is no luck, there is no fate. There are always two ways. One is God's and one is devil's. And in each step of your life you have to pick one, always.