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Thanks for the replies - a lot of interesting thoughts! Sorry I left out the piece, it's Kabalevsky's Piano Sonata no.3 and I have been working on it exclusively for two months now.

Two things:

1) I'm pretty sure I know where those tricky parts are, and I may have some fingering/distribution/technique suggestions. Feel free to post about it here and I'll do my best to help.

2) If you decide to play it, then you need to get it in front of people as soon as possible. Even if it's not 100% memorized/ready, start playing in front of an audience - any audience. This is one of those pieces that feels different in front of an audience than it does in practice (because it's so athletic.) Getting used to the feel of performing it will help a great deal.

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

Cinnamonbear, I am so sorry! I think you misunderstood me - I meant that about 90% of the piece is difficult! :-)

The problem with me pulling something out of my repertoire is that I have started with a new teacher this year and I do not think she wants me to play something I have already learned. I think more what I had in mind was trying to work up a piece I had started learning with this teacher but then dropped - but I think it is still a little further along than Kabalevsky.

Mark_C
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear

Do you not see that 4 1/2 weeks is a TON of time?

That's a big part of how we see this differently, because I think it's hardly any time -- and besides that, there's another big part that we see differently too.

Let's look at the "4 1/2 weeks."

You know some math, right? Remember "graphs" and "curves" and stuff? (I could call it calculus, because that's sort of what it is, but that might be too intimidating, so I'll just call it graphs and curves.)

Take what she said about her progress with the piece so far.Make a curve out of it. (I mean an imaginary one, in your mind; I don't mean to get a pencil and paper.)

Extend it for another 4 1/2 weeks. Does that give anything close to "piece learned"?If you think it does, we disagree on what it means to have a piece learned. I think the only way we can make the curve reach "piece learned" in that amount of time is if she suddenly starts learning better and faster. That's a gamble, at best, and utterly reckless at worst.

But let's even say she does get to "piece learned" in 4 1/2 weeks. That would still leave us with a huge disagreement.

It seems you think it's fine to bring a piece to a performance as soon as you have it "learned."Do you?It sure seems like you do. And I think that is total folly. Once you have a piece learned, that's just one step toward having it ready for a performance, at least if you care about having a good chance for success. It then takes some time to work out the rough edges (and there will always be some rough edges, most of which you won't have any idea about yet) and time to get secure and confident with it, including preferably doing some run-throughs in front of at least a person or two.

How much extra time do we need for that? It varies. Sometimes just a few days, usually much more. In this case, almost certainly much more, because with a piece that has been giving someone the kind of trouble that was stated in the OP, I think it's very unlikely that this final phase would be quick.

Originally Posted By: txpianogirl

Cinnamonbear, I am so sorry! I think you misunderstood me - I meant that about 90% of the piece is difficult! :-)

I realized that from your 1st post -- I thought it was implied. It's a big part of where I've been coming from, and why I simply could not believe some of what I was reading here -- including in KREISLER's post, which, although measured, is far more encouraging than I think is wise.

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

[...] I think the only way we can make the curve reach "piece learned" in that amount of time is if she suddenly starts learning better and faster. That's a gamble, at best, and utterly reckless at worst. [...]

I have said in other places that I like reckless playing (Kudos, to you, MarkC, for spelling "reckless" correctly. I spell "CaddyWhompus" with a "w" and an "h".)

[...] I think the only way we can make the curve reach "piece learned" in that amount of time is if she suddenly starts learning better and faster. [...]

It is called a curve for a reason. I do think you are not giving the brain enough credit for its enormous potential. Remember your driving lessons? You accelerate OUT of a curve! De-celerate in, accelerate out. Accelerate, txpianogirl!

Thanks for the replies - a lot of interesting thoughts! Sorry I left out the piece, it's Kabalevsky's Piano Sonata no.3 and I have been working on it exclusively for two months now.

Two things:

1) I'm pretty sure I know where those tricky parts are, and I may have some fingering/distribution/technique suggestions. Feel free to post about it here and I'll do my best to help.

2) If you decide to play it, then you need to get it in front of people as soon as possible. Even if it's not 100% memorized/ready, start playing in front of an audience - any audience. This is one of those pieces that feels different in front of an audience than it does in practice (because it's so athletic.) Getting used to the feel of performing it will help a great deal.

Also, TX, take Kreisler up on his offer (1), and his advice (2). ALL pieces are like this (2).

Mark_C
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York

CB: Be honest:You're just being stubborn now.

Did you even notice what she said about the "90%"? It seems like you didn't, because assuming you're taking her situation seriously and don't want to mislead her, you would need to factor it into your thinking, and you haven't.

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

Did you even notice what she said about the "90%"? It seems like you didn't, because assuming you're taking her situation seriously and don't want to mislead her, you would need to factor it into your thinking, and you haven't.

O.K., Mark. I admit you are right.

But have you fasted for 4 weeks? There is a different kind of calculus at play, here. And we still don't know if she's from Texas, or not. It makes a difference, I assure you.

How realistic is it if you have a piece that is at the stage where you can play the notes ( at a slow speed in order to play them properly ) and you have a few bits and pieces memorized, to be able to perfect ( note - wise and musically ) and memorize to play for an event in 4 1/2 weeks? This piece has been VERY difficult for me to learn even though I have been consistently practicing it 3 - 4 hours on the days I practice. I have been making some progress but I am not sure it is enough.

Some people have been encouraging you to go for it, but that sounds like bad advice. This sonata is obviously giving you trouble, and it would take a miracle to pull it all together in a month's time based on where you say you are and how difficult you're finding it. If you have any sort of viable Plan B - and it sounds like you do - you really need to talk to your teacher about it and make the switch.

One final word about fasting. It is a way to find time when previously you thought you had none. It does not always mean giving up food, though it can mean that. It does mean giving up something, and trust me, the time is there if you want to find it.

This is the phrase that got me: "I have been consistently practicing it 3 - 4 hours on the days that I practice." (Emphasis added.)

I maintain that it could be done. However, as BDB said, people are different in their abilities, and I would add also in their methods, what they believe about themselves, walking their tightropes of competing interests, and in exercising their force of will. But, I know what it is like to want out of a piece, too, and if that is the case, my heart goes out to you, TPG.

To start with Kreisler: THANK YOU for your offer to help! Where to begin... just about everything after page 4 is difficult! But to be a bit more specific some really difficult passages are: ms (I am using Schirmers btw)204 - 240 and a little bit of trouble in the recap but I think I can work it out (however I spent almost 3 hours on this section yesterday and it hasn't improved) and then ms 296 - 339. Would you have any suggestions on how to practice this (any helpful fingering would help too! )? I hope that makes sense - thanks again for your offer!

Thank you all for replying with so much helpful advice! I appreciate your taking the time to do that very much! I was supposed to play the piece for professor at SMU on Oct. 15th - that will not happen. Next time to play is recital on Oct. 29th (that is the event I mentioned, then the main event which I am preparing it for, the Dallas Piano Solo Competition on Nov. 5th. I feel since I changed teachers that I am swimming upstream with some other extremely talented fish...

4 1/2 weeks is a TON of time. Do not disregard the amount of work your brain can do when it is asleep. Every time you sleep, your brain re-wires. Practice. Sleep. Practice. Sleep. 4 1/2 weeks? That's more than 28 sleep/wake cycles. If you can play it slowly, then play it slowly every few days to drill the fingering. Don't play it fast on those days... Play it slowly! On the other days, play it up to speed, or close to speed(s). On the other, other days, play it any way you want!

This is VERY helpful. You could not have said it any better. I LOVE the 'rewire, rewire' analogy! :P

Thanks for the replies - a lot of interesting thoughts! Sorry I left out the piece, it's Kabalevsky's Piano Sonata no.3 and I have been working on it exclusively for two months now.

My teacher seems to think it's possible but I am a little worried. I have heard that it is best to secure a piece at least a month in advance - and I have to admit it is very nice to already have a piece learned and memorized ahead of time as it gives you a lot of time to work on it musically.

Here is some more information to go by: Basically the way I have been working on the piece is I have started at the end and am working backwards. I am trying to tackle the most difficult parts of the piece ( which is probably a good 90% ) - I will take sections (sometimes I will practice by sections and sometimes I will practice it a measure at a time) and break them apart. For example, working hands separately, working on separate voices, blocking notes into chords, different rhythm patterns or simply going through a passage slowly.

It is just a little confusing as to why these sections are still difficult. I could be giving up a little soon but I would almost rather be on the cautious side then be without a piece... Only time will tell - I'm just trying to be safe! The deadline idea is good, I might try that.

Thank you all again for your help!

Hey, TPG! You posted while I was writing!

You see? I am right! You have plenty of time. You are already at 90%, and more than a month out. Jeeze Louise! And it's Kabalevsky to boot! Jeeze LOUISE! Keep doing what you're doing and you'll be FINE! BTW, you still did not tell us what EVENT this is.

CB:

As I read txpianogirl's post, she didn't say that she has 90% of it learned but that 90% of the piece has difficulties for her. That's a lot different, I think, than your take on her post.

Moreover, she said that she has been working on this piece "exclusively" for two months, 3 to 4 hours each day that she practices, and that she is still far from secure with it. It seems to me that the remaining 4-1/2 weeks - or are we down to four weeks, now? - is not a whole lot of time to not only master the piece and all its 90% difficult sections but also have it ready for public performance.

I think we all, myself included, are speculating widely and wildly about whether or not txpianogirl can perform this per her original post. I think she and her teacher are the only ones who can reasonably answer the question.

I have heard that it is best to secure a piece at least a month in advance -and I have to admit it is very nice to already have a piece learned and memorized aheadof time as it gives you a lot of time to work on it musically.

Exactly my thoughts. I would not try performing in 4 weeks if it is not yet in your fingers at least.