I Am Lost For Words...You Need To See This...

I haven't made many threads recently, taken a bit of a back seat in the "conspiracy world". None-the-less i was sent this video by a colleague
because it related to the independence referendum in Scotland. I am sure many of you know about the impending vote on the 18th September this year
but this short video is far bigger than that.

This is Craig Murray, an ex-british diplomat and UK ambassador for over 20 years coming out and telling THE TRUTH.

I believe it has been banned from FB (cant confirm 100% as i don't use FB) but EVERYONE globally needs to see this video, not just people in Scotland
who are undecided or are a No voter. This affects everyone and it confirms exactly what people have "known" for over a decade.

I will not provide a narrative because its too important not to watch.

well it is quite refreshing to see someone with inside knowledge speak out on these issues ....spend enough time here on ATS and these things are
discussed fairly often......it is always a case of follow the money....as he more or less says many get screwed to create profit for a few

For what its worth, I find the timing of this revelation to be deeply suspect. True or not, there was a time, not that long ago, when this sort of
information could have assisted inquiries with their investigations of the Dodgy Dossier issue, and many others, pertaining to the War on Terror.

Whether his lack of willingness to speak until now has been out of cowardice or calculation, its a pretty crappy way to use that information, to
lever the Scots away from the United Kingdom. I feel pretty strongly about all this, since my heritage has echos of every corner of the British Isles
within it, and I love living in a country which unites all the pieces of which I am made, under one flag.

Nothing in the Video that i didn't already know. One of the reasons i will be voting Yes is I no longer wish to be governed by a out of control
military Junta...The only difference i see between Bush, Blair, Cameron, Obama, Galtieri and Pinochet etc etc is the choice of clothing.

Just a trip through our past and the acquisitions made for people with 'British interests' e.g. rothschild and the gold in africa where we put the
Dutch Africarn women and children in pens to starve when their men opposed us is horrendous.

I found out about how hated we as a nation are back in the 1960's when I use to go to Italy a lot and I wondered why the car was targeted for
vandalism a lot and this was just in Europe.

If you have a questioning mind and curiosity our government and the USA is a nasty place to look too deeply into.

I have to say that I agree with you True. When to spill the beans is not after everything has gone bad,its when someone is trying to do the wrong
thing to begin with that it really counts. I'm glad that he has finally come out and told the truth,but he needs to get it in the msm and let
everyone know about it.Then he needs to remember from now on,that if he wants the trust of the people, he needs to come clean as things are unfolding.

The last thing i want is to turn this thread into a debate about independence but i do have a few points to make which relate to this video aswell.

1. This video surmises the SOLE reason i want independence. Its not about patriotism or hopefully financial gain its about a moral stance that i will
not endorse death and destruction for the benefit of a few and i wont allow my children to be part of that cycle.

Many people on ATS complain about the state of the world yet not many of us have a realistc chance of stopping it or helping it or getting away from
it. The people in Scotland have the chance to help it, leaving the UK will reduce the UK's power globally and leaving the UK will allow us in
Scotland to be able to say...

" we have had enough of the illegal wars and nuclear weapons and control, we dont want to be part of it anymore, we dont want blood on our hands...we
are doing it so that our children dont have blood on their hands and we deserve the chance to fully self governed in a peaceful democratic society"

Is that statement above not enough to take a gamble on independence? In reality is a Yes vote any more or a gamble than a No vote because the way i
see it the UK is heading in 1 direction...Scotland can go its own way? Independence is bigger than Scotland, it shows the world that the UK is not
what people think it is. It shows all that if a nation or region is not happy with the way in which a government runs its business that there are
peaceful options, that option is to leave and start on your own.

I would rather struggle financially than be an accessory to the murder of innocent people. By me voting No i am saying its OK to do that and i
endorse it...which i dont.

Hertitage, Freedom, Braveheart, Lineage go out the window when it comes to doing the right thing, if you care about other people and doing the right
thing there is only 1 way to vote and this video portrays that perfectly.

I am British, and proud to be, but I am also aware of the failings of previous generations. I have ensured that I take a wide view of the history of
these Isles, precisely because I wish to be part of a generation which makes less, or different mistakes, than those which have come before. I am by
no means ignorant of the horrors my ancestors have visited upon their fellow human beings, and determined that I will do what I can to prevent such
toxic behaviour, wherever it is in my power to do so.

Tis yet another reason, that I am dismayed by the timing of Mr Murrays revelations, and deeply suspicious of them.

You want to live in a nation which does not endorse murder for profit on an industrial scale, and I could not empathise with that position more. It is
a constant source of sorrow to me, that my government continues to practice immoral policies on everything from business transactions with
questionable governments elsewhere, to the wars it fights, and the reasons it fights them.

However, as you will note from my response in the other thread, to the video and its contents, my view is that one must be the change one wishes to
see, and be prepared to stand in the face of whatever horrors there are at the heart of a matter, rather than abandoning it, and washing ones hands of
it.

The man specifically states that he was once proud to be driven in a car bearing the flag of this nation. Well if he was truly proud, then why would
he not fight to excise the rot, rather than put his back to the affair? Does he not realise that the right way to deal with these things is to
confront them, rather than to run from them? Does he not understand that by refusing to tackle these issues, he only makes it necessary for someone
else to do so, someone who might not be as well informed or capable as himself?

Does he not realise that by using this information as a lever to drive nations apart, despite the fact that many of my countrymen share blood with
yours, he is misusing that information, that only together can we hope to remove the cancer at the heart of our society? I love being British, and I
love the Scots, the Irish, the Welsh as family, since they all pretty much are. There are bonds of blood to think of here, not just political
affiliation.

I could not agree with you more, that there are things in Westminster that are dark, nightmarish, and corrupt as the blackened heart of Satan
himself. But I would rather see folk like this Murray chap take them on, than run from them.

Tis yet another reason, that I am dismayed by the timing of Mr Murrays revelations, and deeply suspicious of them.

I don't mind his timing at all. There is a time when you can say such things...and when you can't.

Do you feel if he had come forward earlier with this information that it would matter somehow in the grand scheme of things ? That Iraq war wouldn't
have happened ?

This video has great value for me. And while this info he stated is probably familiar to most ATS users...there is value in it being stated by a
individual who had first hand knowledge and was a part of the goings on at the time.

Why is it valuable ? because I see it it daily here on ATS...debunkers of info like this usually cling to the fact that no official confirmation of a
conspiracy exists...and that everyone that believes in conspiracies is a nutcase.

For instance...many don't believe in a 9/11 conspiracy simply because they don't believe their own government would sacrifice the lives of their own
people to further elitist agenda. They just wouldn't do that, and believing in such conspiracy is over the top SF and wouldn't happen in a real
world.

I want my nation run honestly, by honest people, and until people who have information which exposes the great wrongs done by our nations leaders
over successive parliaments, come forward and make that data public, this country will continue to rot from within. The value of this data to
conspiracy theorists, for once, is of no consequence in my mind what so ever.

What you have to remember, is that conspiracy theory is not a thing separate from indignation for many people who have an interest in it. In my
specific case, my anger at my government drives at least 90% of my interest in conspiracy, because I realise that the great many social issues which
continue to gouge the hearts of my countrymen, have their roots in the horrid filth in Westminster and Whitehall, playing fast and loose with our
honour as a nation, and our hard earned money to boot. This needs addressing, conspiracy theorising is NOT a spectator sport. It is about real things,
which really matter.

But everyone has an agenda, and I think that is the only reason we have not heard from Mr Murray before now.

The man specifically states that he was once proud to be driven in a car bearing the flag of this nation. Well if he was truly proud, then why would
he not fight to excise the rot, rather than put his back to the affair? Does he not realise that the right way to deal with these things is to
confront them, rather than to run from them? Does he not understand that by refusing to tackle these issues, he only makes it necessary for someone
else to do so, someone who might not be as well informed or capable as himself?

There is no confronting this evil that rules today. You can not win by confronting it. You are immediately a communist or a terrorist if you go
against this policy of unjust warfare.

sorry for jumping in your posts...you seem like a decent individual with a cool head on his shoulders. I just felt compelled to comment. My country
did the exact same thing 25 years ago...made a vote to separate from Yugoslavia.

It was a blood bath...because rulers hate losing power and territory.

But to agree with you on a certain level...did we as a independent nation achieve anything by separation ?? Not so much. We gained independence, but a
different set of rulers just took over and made it if not same than worse than it was. We now have a different master. The EU. We are slaves
again...just as we were before the independence. It appears we are unable to govern ourselves.

Sometimes...it all seems like an endless game of chess, and the pawns keep getting sacrificed...

I want my nation run honestly, by honest people, and until people who have information which exposes the great wrongs done by our nations leaders over
successive parliaments, come forward and make that data public, this country will continue to rot from within.

While I'm on board with you on this one...I feel it is just a pipe dream for us, and it will never happen. There is an ongoing agenda on many state
levels, all over the world...to specifically limit the information the public receives...and it is only getting worse by the minute.

Here's hopping that your line of reasoning prevails one day...but I'm not holding my breath.

Americans harp on about it at length, citing this and that passage from the Constitution of the United States of America, and this and that example
of how their nation is doing it right, and everyone else lives in a socialist dictatorship or some such nonsense.

However, liberty is the right to stand up for what one believes in. If one has not even that basic amenity left unto one, then for all one might be
able to survive, to feed oneself and ones family, one cannot LIVE. Death is infinitely preferable to such a parlous state of affairs, and if that is
what it takes, then that is what it takes. Evil only triumphs in the absence of those with the gumption to stand before it with righteous indignation.

I must admit, as a Scot, the whole Westminster Is Evil And Corrupt argument is the only one that makes me think I might vote yes, to get away from
that festering stinkhole.

However. The problem is, why does anybody think politicians in Edinburgh will be any different to politicians in London?

Historically, Scottish Parliaments have been horrifically corrupt. I can see absolutely no reason why iScotland politicians would be any better than
rUK politicians. Politicians are politicians.

So the only difference would be that iScotland wouldn't have any armed forces, so wouldn't be able to do any of this bombing innocent people crap
that Westminster pulls every now and then.

Which is... not a convincing enough argument. I can't see how throwing more politicians at a problem is going to fix it. So I shall probably vote no,
because my interpretation of the financial numbers is that an independent Scotland would very quickly go bankrupt, and we'd all be screwed.

originally posted by: Painterz
I must admit, as a Scot, the whole Westminster Is Evil And Corrupt argument is the only one that makes me think I might vote yes, to get away from
that festering stinkhole.

However. The problem is, why does anybody think politicians in Edinburgh will be any different to politicians in London?

Historically, Scottish Parliaments have been horrifically corrupt. I can see absolutely no reason why iScotland politicians would be any better than
rUK politicians. Politicians are politicians.

So the only difference would be that iScotland wouldn't have any armed forces, so wouldn't be able to do any of this bombing innocent people crap
that Westminster pulls every now and then.

Which is... not a convincing enough argument. I can't see how throwing more politicians at a problem is going to fix it. So I shall probably vote no,
because my interpretation of the financial numbers is that an independent Scotland would very quickly go bankrupt, and we'd all be
screwed.

As far as I'm concerned...your right. Same here...no Croatian politician is better than the Yugoslav politicians. It' all the same crap all over
again. Raping, pillaging and looting continued after the independence. As if nothing changed. Only suits changed and a few faces.

In the end...we must accept the reality...power corrupts...whether you're Scotish, English, Croatian or American. The end result is almost always the
same.

With specific regard to the information from the video, and the person reporting it, this is the sort of thing that should have been bought before the
public years ago, and under the auspices of an investigation into the Iraq War. It should also, assuming a failure of that investigation to bare fruit
(probably as a result of more scheming) have been given to the United Nations, so that they could look at the situation from an objective point of
view.

Thanks for posting this. Like yourself, I'm voting yes so that we can stop Scotland being part of illegal wars, of murdering civilians abroad, and of
harbouring nuclear weapons. That and the fact that Westminister is not and has never been representative of my community.

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