Removing Raid lockouts entirely.

Hi all,

I've read thread after thread on here where the issue of raid lockouts is constantly being brought up. Initially I was really against this idea but the more I thought about it and the more downtime I had in game the more I wished I had a few more options.

So currently once you've done a raid that's it. No more. Done. Unless you want to run old content, Lfr or on an alt your out of luck with raiding.

Personally I know a lot of people on my server and would like to be able to help them out in raids if they have empty spots etc but can't do it as I'm locked out.

How about we steal abit from the Lfr loot model and allow you to run a raid as many times as you want but only get loot from a boss once? This way I can help people out, not be relegated to doing things I don't want to or just idling in SW. Ther would also be no neccisty to doing it as I don't stand to get any loot benefit from it. This would also keep it completely optional.

I know there would be other issues to hash out with achi's and stuff but I wanted to start this thread as a jumping off point for a potential discussion.

I've read thread after thread on here where the issue of raid lockouts is constantly being brought up. Initially I was really against this idea but the more I thought about it and the more downtime I had in game the more I wished I had a few more options.

So currently once you've done a raid that's it. No more. Done. Unless you want to run old content, Lfr or on an alt your out of luck with raiding.

Personally I know a lot of people on my server and would like to be able to help them out in raids if they have empty spots etc but can't do it as I'm locked out.

How about we steal abit from the Lfr loot model and allow you to run a raid as many times as you want but only get loot from a boss once? This way I can help people out, not be relegated to doing things I don't want to or just idling in SW. Ther would also be no neccisty to doing it as I don't stand to get any loot benefit from it. This would also keep it completely optional.

I know there would be other issues to hash out with achi's and stuff but I wanted to start this thread as a jumping off point for a potential discussion.

So, thoughts?

I feel ok with it. I have had times I wanted to help friends also but lockout aes that impossimble.

Yeah this could work, however, if say on wed you kill 3 bosses and you want to come back on monday, now you have to kill first 3 again. And no, letting people just select what boss to start on is a BAD BAD idea.

There's a constant struggle that Blizzard must keep fighting: saving players from themselves.

With this change, suddenly there'll be hundreds of hardcore and wannabe hardcore guilds that spend all day, every day in raids. Learning bosses. Gearing up new people. Gearing up alts. With the raid lockout, those players are forced to hold back at least a little bit, so they don't burn themselves out or do some serious injury to themselves (I'm sure we've all heard about the people who die of starvation while marathoning a game).

Also, the loot system is too easy to abuse. Imagine this scenario:

25 players raid. They all have 2 characters each, 1 main and 1 alt. They run the raid 25 times, with 24 players on their alts and 1 on their main. All loot is funnelled to the main, rinse and repeat.

For those two reasons alone it's a bad idea to remove raid lockouts. I'm sure there are many more reasons as well.

This would put a lot of pressure on top tier guilds to raid even more, possibly, so they can continue to practice encounters even though they are not getting loot.

If that was the case it would be self imposed. It also wouldn't make a great deal of sense. You would only need to practice an encounter in order to kill it. If you've already killed it during progression why would you waste progress time returning to a boss that is already down if it yields no gear?

It could theoretically be used to gear up support/backup players or those that sat out but it would still take away from time that could be used on actual progress.

It's their choice. If they want to run the instance for every single person to get max loot (bringing max alts that can no longer get loot), so be it.

Except it isn't 'their' choice. The competition would force them to do that to stay competitive and keep a chance of winning world firsts/server firsts.

And no, before anyone mistakenly decides to bring it up, the daily system is not the same thing.

---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 12:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by XanderJS

If that was the case it would be self imposed. It also wouldn't make a great deal of sense. You would only need to practice an encounter in order to kill it. If you've already killed it during progression why would you waste progress time returning to a boss that is already down if it yields no gear?

If they decide to keep going with the Elite system, then there's one example. They'd go back to Protectors of the Endless and learn Heroic Elite mode, even though it would give no loot.

Also, since when does a single kill of a boss mean it's automatically on farm status? Continuing to practice the tactic, refine it, or maybe change it altogether would be incredibly beneficial.

Except it isn't 'their' choice. The competition would force them to do that to stay competitive and keep a chance of winning world firsts/server firsts.

And no, before anyone mistakenly decides to bring it up, the daily system is not the same thing.

It IS their choice. You want to stay at the top? Give it everything or die trying. You want to beat the competition? You have to invest more time and effort. Just like it is in life really, you sound like a person who expects everything to be handed on a silver plate for them.

This would certainly be a problem. You would also see guilds/raids doing like many of the suspended guilds did when LFR first came out running a raid with 1 or 2 ppl to get all the loot then restarting again. So guilds would max gear toons in the first weeks or normals or on farm heroic bosses then bring them all in for the progression stuff with months worth of gear. The exploits and issues this would cause would be through the roof.

Sounds like an excellent idea to me. I often help people with the old raids since i can(once pr week), but i'm very rarely able to help people with the current ones, which is kinda sad to me.
I guess it should make some change to the loot though. If you suddenly have a raid of 4-5 people that already ran the place, and can't get loot, the boss should only drop one piece, or it might be a bit unfair gearing of some players.

I don't really think that the few top players should be a reason not to implement that change. It could put more preasure on them, but would give more people in the overall a game to try out normal or HC raids.

So guilds would max gear toons in the first weeks or normals or on farm heroic bosses then bring them all in for the progression stuff with months worth of gear. The exploits and issues this would cause would be through the roof.

There is an easy fix to this though. Restrict loot to one toon per battle.net account. Sure there are ways around it, but those would play greatly in Blizzard's favor.

imho, the easiest solution to the loot funneling problem is to use the LFR looting system whenever a raid group is formed where over 10% of the group comp is made of people that have already killed the boss in that reset. By removing the option to funnel loot to specific people in these scenarios it would automagically solve the problem.

In this way, people can still raid however much they want, but they opt to use an inferior looting system for higher flexibility. To avoid craziness, they can also cap the number of people that can get loot so that good RNG doesn't award everyone an item. Bad RNG would just be another incentive NOT to run with this new system unless absolutely needed.