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Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Ian and Green's deal are NOT going to be as awful to try and trade as you seem to think.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Thanks for the lively discussion everybody. I hope you all stay safe and have a merry christmas. My wife is dragging me off here and to the mall. Best wishes to everyone!

Stay off the roads, go to Amazon.com!

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I also forgot my guy Hill and probably Roy, yes I take Hill over Danny too, I would take Paul George, West, Hill, Roy and then Danny(if healthy).

This is terrific! Had no idea you were this high on the Pacers. If Danny Granger is the fifth-best player and the worst starter on this team, then I am incredibly pumped up about this team. Q. What kind of team has four players better than Danny Granger and has Danny Granger? A. An amazing one.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

He has said that a team will only survive if its fanbase will support them. He never has an explanation for why this fanbase does not support the pacers the way they could. There is a reason, I have my opinion what that reason is. What is his? I don't think he has one. I don' think you can explain what that reason is unless you have seen what the pacers were, what direction they took and where their headed now. They damaged their image somewhere along the line and they have been paying for it. I personally don't think they are doing what they could to get it back. They had a golden opportunity in the offseason. They preached to us for years that that would be the time their hands were no longer tied and they could really get things done. They blew it big time and I am pissed at them for misleading everyone again. Now their hands are tied again and we are facing more years of mediocrity because of it. They like to use the excuse that nobody with a big name would want to come here. That is ******** and a defeatist attitude. I am sick of it. Thy don't tolerate it in other markets why should we here?

Just because he "has said it," doesn't mean he said anything about it recently before you brought it up. And he didn't say it in the post you quoted.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Ian and Green's deal are NOT going to be as awful to try and trade as you seem to think.

I agree completely. But first off, we didn't sign them to trade them. We signed them to play. But like you said, if we had to trade them they are on easily tradeable contracts. Their talent matches up well with their contracts.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I agree completely. But first off, we didn't sign them to trade them.We signed them to play. But like you said, if we had to trade them they are on easily tradeable contracts. Their talent matches up well with their contracts.

But for people who don't like the signings, they are "bad contacts."

This is the first time I see somebody to use the highlighted part to make an excuse for the Pacers you sir are the man, good job....

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

When things go poorly in Boston, New York, LA and Chicago the fans don't stand for it. They expect championships not playoffs, that is exactly why they win more often than others. That is why players want to go there. They know they will have a chance to win.

They want to go there because when things go sour in those cities, the fans still continue to come to the arena.

They win because the management has enough money to take risks exactly because the fans continue to come to the arena.

When they are not happy with their team, they boo them sometimes while being in the arena.

It all starts and ends with fans being in the arena.

See a patern here?

The successful franchises are successful because they never turn their backs on their teams. When you have turned your back on your team, you forgo your right to complain about it.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

It's going to take a few consistent winning seasons for the Pacers to rise in attendance.

That's exactly why I think that the way that this "blow up" crowd sees things kinda ridiculous. We will have several consistent winning seasons with this core. With an upgraded bench we could be in for more than a simple winning season and some partial playoff success. We could be on for a deep run. That's what is going to bring people back in the arena.

And they want to blow it up? It doesn't even make sense.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Enes Kanter: His contract is $4,443,360 for this season, $4,753,320 for the next season and there's a team option of $6,008,106. There's also a qualifying offer of $7,882,663.

Taj Gibson: His contract is $2,155,811 for this season, $7,550,000 for the next season, $8,000,000 for the 14-15 season, $8,500,000 for the 15-16 season and $8,950,000 for the 16-17 season.

Andris Biedrins: His contract is $9,000,000 for this season and he also has a player option for the next season of $9,000,000.

Tiago Splitter: He is at the last year of his rookie contract ($3,944,000) and he has a qualifying offer of $4,930,000 for the next season.

Some of those produce better than Ian and some of those produce worse. He isn't the best bang for the buck but he is far from a crappy contract as well.

Ian at $4,000,000 mil a year for 3 years is not overpaid. He is paid less than Enes Kanter (who is on a rookie contract, btw) while producing slightly less in similar minutes (Kanter is averaging 5.2 PPG, 4.2 RPG and 0.4 BPG in 13.9 minutes for his career while Ian is averaging 4.4 PPG, 3.2 RPG and 0.5 BPG in 12.7 minutes for his career).

Andris Biedris is paid waaaay more and I don't need to tell you what his recent production is. I'm sure you know.

Taj Gibson has better career averages (7.8 PPG, 6.1 RPG and 1.1 BPG) but he also plays 10 minutes more than Ian (22.9 minutes to Ian's 12.7) and is paid a lot more ($35M over 5 years compared to $12M over 3 years, really?). It's important to note that the two players have similar per 36 numbers (Ian has 12.6 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 0.5 APG, 1.5 BPG and 1.1 SPG while Taj has 12.2 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 1.2 APG, 2.0 BPG and 0.8 SPG).

Tiago has a better contract currently for his production but it's his last year of his rookie deal. Let's see how much he'll make when he hits the open market. On an irrelevant note, I really like Tiago as I consider that he's going to have a David West type career. He seemed like such a player in Europe.

Anyway, back on topic. Ian is not overpaid. It's not even close. His contract is quite reasonable, actually.

I already did an comparison of some of our comparisons relative to the rest of the league in another thread (namely, the DJ being shipped thread). It's obvious that you didn't read it. It's fine since you're claiming yourself that you don't have a lot of time in your hands.

But do your research before you deem someone "overpaid", please. I'll get tired of quoting myself if people keep spewing this "overpaid" garbage

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.